# The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread



## ValentinHogea

_The cable discussions derailed the previous thread, so hopefully we can behave a bit and keep them in the Sound Science-category. Thx_
  
 ---
  
*Some existing threads summarized* *The closed HD800 Appreciation Thread:*
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/426508/sennheiser-hd800-appreciation-thread
  
*AMP / DAC pairing discussions:*
Best amp 1? http://www.head-fi.org/t/568583/best-amp-for-hd-800
Best amp 2? http://www.head-fi.org/t/427946/best-hd800-amp
1000-1500 USD amps: http://www.head-fi.org/t/583814/amp-dac-for-disappointed-hd800-owner
No fixed price amp + dac: http://www.head-fi.org/t/611093/amp-and-dac-for-hd800
1000-2500 USD amps: http://www.head-fi.org/t/629322/hd800-1-000-2-500-amp-sonic-bliss
No fixed price amp: http://www.head-fi.org/t/513277/hd-800-amp-discussion
Best DAC 1500-1700 USD: http://www.head-fi.org/t/622775/best-sounding-dac-for-hd800
  
*Reviews / Headphone-related discussions:*
Jude's review and further discussion: http://www.head-fi.org/t/398829/the-sennheiser-hd-800-the-first-listen-the-first-review
Praising-thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/608699/does-it-get-much-better-than-the-hd800
Differences in old and new HD800? http://www.head-fi.org/t/646871/new-hd-800-very-different-than-the-old-hd-800
"Convince a ortho-lover to the strengths of HD800" http://www.head-fi.org/t/643740/team-hd800-challenge
Is the HD800 overpriced? http://www.head-fi.org/t/467234/is-the-hd800-overpriced
HD800 vs HE-6: http://www.head-fi.org/t/641885/hd800-he-6-comparisons
HD800 vs HE-500: http://www.head-fi.org/t/633012/hd800-vs-he500
  
*Modding HD800:*
Anax 1.0: http://www.head-fi.org/t/577530/hd800-anaxilus-mod
  
*HD800-cables:*
Shoud the stock cable be replaced? http://www.head-fi.org/t/642871/should-the-hd-800-factory-cable-be-replaced
Various aftermarket cables, which is "best": http://www.head-fi.org/t/625516/hd-800-moon-audio-vs-saa-vs-toxic-cables
  
  
 /V


----------



## MDCLXVI

The HD800s are on my head right now.. listening to Coastal Grooves by Blood Orange and it is superb


----------



## jtinto

Art Blakey for me right now


----------



## Solude

Call it synergy, call it needing some gear that is up to the task, call it the third time's the charm... but I'm really enjoying the HD800 this time out.  Using the PWD2 and Soloist right now.  When my cables, B22 and GS-X arrive I'll get on with the official A/B of the LCD-2 and HD800 on each amp and ending with one amp and one can.


----------



## ValentinHogea

Quote: 





solude said:


> Call it synergy, call it needing some gear that is up to the task, call it the third time's the charm... but I'm really enjoying the HD800 this time out.  Using the PWD2 and Soloist right now.  When my cables, B22 and GS-X arrive I'll get on with the official A/B of the LCD-2 and HD800 on each amp and ending with one amp and one can.


 
  Sweet... There sure is something special when one unlocks these headphones.
   
  From "bright and artificial" to "oh, now I understand all the fuss about them".
   
  I dare anyone to try the HD800 + ZDSE + NAD M51. Find it hard to beat currently. If the HD800 still appears sibilant and artifical, well, then they're simply not for you.  And boy are we lucky there are so many other top-notch HP's.


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





valentinhogea said:


> I dare anyone to try the HD800 + ZDSE + NAD M51. Find it hard to beat currently. If the HD800 still appears sibilant and artifical, well, then they're simply not for you.  And boy are we lucky there are so many other top-notch HP's.


 
   
  I've been eyeing the HD800 for some time now. TBH I was never a fan of HD800, because I was looking for one headphone to rule them all - does pop and rock as well as classic, jazz, acoustic, etc. While I felt the HD800 excelled in the latter, it sounded boring and lifeless with most pop and rock music.
   
  Considering that I have a ZDSE incoming, I would like to give the HD800 a second chance. What do you think of ZDSE + HD800? Does the ZDSE make the HD800 sing in such a way that it performs superbly with pop and rock too? Or, as great as the combo may be, it still doesn't make the HD800 a great headphone for pop and rock?


----------



## BournePerfect

My rig (in sig) continues to wow me every day. In fact this is pretty much endgame for me at this point. Now I will be upgrading some final tweaks (aftermarket cable for HD800, KinRex usb psu for SBT etc) without worrying about the costs involved since I am 100% happy with the rest of my rig. It's a good place to be. 

Songmic: I wasn't really completely satisfied with rock and pop until I settled on the right tube for it. Currently using a NOS Brimar, but will be looking at others down the line. My round/blackglass/NOS tung sol is mellow, laid back, and magical for vocals, but the Brimar is more dynamic and transparent and suits harder stuff much better. YMMV

-Daniel

edit: I should mention that I was never a fan of the HD 800 until I received my ZDSE. I had tried other (cheaper) ss options that were often recommended, but with little success. Those included the highly touted Dynalo and TTVJ Fet-A. They didn't do anything to curtail the brittle, dry, sibilant nature of the Senn imo. The Zana arrived and solved all those issues for the most part, while retaining all of the strengths that the HD 800 is known for. My DP1 also brought my rig up another level when it arrived. 

If I were to describe what I am hearing in my rig now in one word, it is the word that frequently pops in my head during my late night listening sessions in perfect darkness and silence:

_Silk._


----------



## Hun7er

Hello,
   
  I have HD800/EC S7 combo. In one word : magic. 
   
  The sound are rich, textured. The vocal are living in your ears. It shares your the emotion of the music.
   
  Simply stunning


----------



## ValentinHogea

songmic said:


> Considering that I have a ZDSE incoming, I would like to give the HD800 a second chance. What do you think of ZDSE + HD800? Does the ZDSE make the HD800 sing in such a way that it performs superbly with pop and rock too? Or, as great as the combo may be, it still doesn't make the HD800 a great headphone for pop and rock?


 
   

  Well considering my absolute favourite genres are Metal, Electro-House and Hip-Hop... I would say that it sure suits all my needs. 
  It's a solid all-rounder. I've sold off my LCD-3's, they didn't do anything except for a bit extra bass and poorer sound stage/imaging.
   
  I have a hard time imagining something much better without going stat. That's why I've decided. No more dynamics. No more side-steps.
 The next stop is the SR009 + EC Electra... But imma start saving, and enjoying pure bliss whilst filling the piggy bank.
   
  (With Mullard ECC35 tall black base. I have a Mullard ECC35 short brown base when I want to soften things up even more...)
   
  /V


----------



## ValentinHogea

And to add up on the one-word summarization...
   
_Harmony_


----------



## BournePerfect

Valentin: Agreed with no more sidestepping at this point-just tweaking. I have also been eyeing an Electra/009 for a while , but I'm not convinced it would necessarily beat my current rig by that much, especially at the cost involved.

Also: are you using a converter (U3, Legato II, Off Ramp etc) with your NAD yet? My understanding is that is the main thing that can bring it up another level...

-Daniel


----------



## ValentinHogea

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Valentin: Agreed with no more sidestepping at this point-just tweaking. I have also been eyeing an Electra/009 for a while , but I'm not convinced it would necessarily beat my current rig by that much, especially at the cost involved.
> 
> Also: are you using a converter (U3, Legato II, Off Ramp etc) with your NAD yet? My understanding is that is the main thing that can bring it up another level...
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  Hi Daniel,
   
  Not that convinced about the added extra either. But, well.. I think that this hobby/interest long since passed the costs initially budgeted. 
   
_Other options are quite limited though..._
   
  Orpheus? Not a chance in this lifetime. Even if one finds one. It's a good chance that one is forced to purchase an amp that could be the older revision, and thus the OCD will force an added 4000 USD for an Aeristaeus.
 R10's? No more spare parts if I got it correctly.
  SR-Omega, well... the above.
  HE Jade, seem to be disintegrating.
   
_So what's left_. A new version of the Jade, a new Senn stat or the 009. The last one chasing about 3200 USD, well.. The strongest candidate so far.
   
  ---
   
  And regarding an extra USB-transport. Pretty satisfied with the USB though. I've used the SPDIF via another transport and the sound signature is quite different, but I don't know if I'd consider it as better. The impossibility to evaluate the transports above, feels like a eine, meine, moe.


----------



## jazzerdave

So I was at CanJam this year and absolutely fell in love with the HD800 paired with the Cavalli Liquid Glass.  I ordered and received the Liquid Glass (it's been issue free so far), but I find myself now owning the HE-6 and LCD-3 with no HD800 in sight.  I certainly didn't prefer either of these cans to the HD800 at the show but found decent deals on each and decided to give them a better chance to wow me outside of show conditions.  While I feel my appreciation for the HE-6 has grown tenfold, and I still feel the LCD-3 does what it does extremely well, I'm pretty sure I'm going to sell both the HE-6 and LCD-3 and just get the HD800.  
   
  Anyway, I just figured I stop by and basically show my appreciation for the HD800 (even though I don't own it yet).


----------



## songmic

Quote:  
   
  Your favorite music is metal and electronica, and you still decided to keep the HD800 in lieu of LCD-3? Unbelievable...


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Valentin: Agreed with no more sidestepping at this point-just tweaking. I have also been eyeing an Electra/009 for a while , but I'm not convinced it would necessarily beat my current rig by that much, especially at the cost involved.
> 
> Also: are you using a converter (U3, Legato II, Off Ramp etc) with your NAD yet? My understanding is that is the main thing that can bring it up another level...
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  I feel the same about Stax. I been eyeing the 009 with a BHSE but at the cost and the wait for the BHSE unless I'm lucky and find one in the FS (oddly enough I have seen 2 in the FS lately) the cost is a bit much. The cost of everything I own doesn't go up to the cost of either the amp or the headphones and imo I have two great setups in the HE6 and HD800. It's not the best in terms of components but sounds pretty close to the top imo of course. 
   
  In that sense the HD800 is a bargain if you can find the right components for it and luckily for me I have with minimal expenses as I got the dac right on the first shot and the amp on the second shot although my first HD800 amp was no slouch.


----------



## Eee Pee

In.  Just plugged the HD 800s into the DNA Sonett and opened a beer for the Sunday evening wind down.


----------



## Da5Id

I received my new HD 800s just last Friday and spent much of the weekend listening to them along with the LCD-3's on my Lyr/Bifrost setup. I'm looking forward to checking them out on the HP outputs of the incoming Invicta on Thursday, and then it's the waiting game for the Stratus, which is when I think I'll see their true colors.


----------



## Maxvla

Quite an upgrade. Lyr/Bifrost to Stratus/Invicta. Welcome truly to summit-fi


----------



## ValentinHogea

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> I feel the same about Stax. I been eyeing the 009 with a BHSE but at the cost and the wait for the BHSE unless I'm lucky and find one in the FS (oddly enough I have seen 2 in the FS lately) the cost is a bit much. The cost of everything I own doesn't go up to the cost of either the amp or the headphones and imo I have two great setups in the HE6 and HD800. It's not the best in terms of components but sounds pretty close to the top imo of course.
> 
> In that sense the HD800 is a bargain if you can find the right components for it and luckily for me I have with minimal expenses as I got the dac right on the first shot and the amp on the second shot although my first HD800 amp was no slouch.


 
   
  Used HD800 in mint condition incl S&H: 1000 USD
  Modding materials: 15 USD
  Used ZDSE in mint condition incl S&H: 1950 USD
  Used M51 in mint condition incl S&H: 1400 USD
  NOS ECC35: 250 USD
  Copper cable: 350 USD
   
  TotaL. 3965 USD
  Experience: Priceless


----------



## Maxvla

Your point?


----------



## ValentinHogea

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Your point?


 
   
  A very competent headphone rig isn't automatically spelled S - T - A - X.
   
  And by the way... Cheer up, no need to frown.


----------



## Maxvla

Not frowning, just didn't know what your intent was by adding up his gear's value.


----------



## ValentinHogea

maxvla said:


> Not frowning, just didn't know what your intent was by adding up his gear's value.




Ok! Then it's settled, a case of double misinterpretation.

But it was my gear btw. My point was not that obvious. I apologise.

A full system for less than a used SR-009. Building a system around the Senn isn't cheap, but not a total wallet-breaker either.


----------



## Maxvla

Ah, I didn't realize it was your own. In the post quoted, he spoke of his gear not equaling either piece of 009 or BHSE so I thought your focus was on him.


----------



## third_eye

Nice to see this thread back up and running again and big kudos to Valentin for taking the time to provide all of the links at the start.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





valentinhogea said:


> And boy are we lucky there are so many other top-notch HP's.


 
  That's a good point. 10 yrs ago you had to search out R10s or other super-high-priced rare pieces. 
  The top production phones (as per Headroom and Tyll) were Senn 650s and AKG 701s (remember when the 701s were considered a breakthrough product).
   
  Now, for me at least, HD800s, LCD3s, TH900s, Stax 009s, Hifimen and others (even Grado GS1000i's, a personal choice) are an embarrassment of riches and we should all be grateful.


----------



## DarknightDK

Been enjoying my HD800 with the WA22 (upgraded tubes) immensely. Strangely enough, ever since I got the HD800, I've haven't had the urge to listen to my LCD-3.


----------



## ValentinHogea

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> That's a good point. 10 yrs ago you had to search out R10s or other super-high-priced rare pieces.
> The top production phones (as per Headroom and Tyll) were Senn 650s and AKG 701s (remember when the 701s were considered a breakthrough product).
> 
> Now, for me at least, HD800s, LCD3s, TH900s, Stax 009s, Hifimen and others (even Grado GS1000i's, a personal choice) are an embarrassment of riches and we should all be grateful.


 
  I think we're spoiled with all these great headphones that the differences sometimes are over-emphasized.
   
  We are taking part of the renaissance of headphones, and for my part. It all good.
   
  Okay, sure. We're paying some huge sums for something that shouldn't be as expensive as they are. But that where newcomers like Audez'e, HiFiMAN and to some extent Fostex rattle things up a bit. I hope that more alternatives, especially in the electrostatic domain appear. I urge everyone to sign the petition for a re-issue of the HE Audio Jade:
_*http://www.head-fi.org/t/634495/petition-bring-back-the-he-audio-jades*_
   
  ---
   
  Just sat down in the listening chair. An ice cold decaf latte, the Senn's and some tube glow. February in Sweden is fantastic.


----------



## preproman

For those of you with multiple headphones.  If you had to narrow it down to one.  Would it be the HD800s?


----------



## Solude

In an HD800 thread... um yes 
   
  I reserve the right to come to my senses but so far my experience is the HD800 scale really well but are also unforgiving to the point of being flat on lesser gear.  This is my third go around with the HD800 and the first two weren't remotely worth considering over the LCD-2.
   
  This time around it's walking all over even the LCD-3.


----------



## preproman

Folks still may have different preferences.  I love my HD8000s.  However, I love what the HE-6 gives me even more.
   
  It's just for fun.


----------



## Solude

Ah but what about the HD800 on the F1J?


----------



## rawrster

I feel the same way about the HE6. If I could have the HE6 without the weight that would be just about perfect. Although my HD800 isn't going anywhere either.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote: 





solude said:


> Ah but what about the HD800 on the F1J?


 
   
  Good question...
   
  Of all the cans I've owned, the HD800 are and always have been my favourites (HE6 are tied with them though). These two scale better than everything else I've tried.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> Ah but what about the HD800 on the F1J?


 
   
   
  uuumm  I'll give it a shot.  I think it will serve them better once I get my preamp.


----------



## NightFlight

My venture into decent HPs has begun.
   
  Well, the HD800s came and I'm finally getting a chance to break them in. The Bifrost/Lyr + 6N23P-EV tubes are still on their way.  The Schiit Asgard I got from a fellow Head-Fi'er  for comparative purposes arrived at the same time.  The story so far.... I'm only able to do break in with the Asgard hanging off the  speaker out of my computer (crappy motherboard out) with the stock Schiit interconnect. Ughgg. 6hrs of continuous break in and they haven opened up in the midsection a bit, depending on recording. The shipping box does make for a good hush box *grin*
   
  Got a good feeling the Lyr+Bifrost will will help.
   
  Bah, as it stands they are pretty flat. No big wows. I know they have a ton of potential and hoping to tap it soon.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





preproman said:


> uuumm  I'll give it a shot.  I think it will serve them better once I get my preamp.


 
   
  I'm curious because Pass' tech write up says the output impedance should be 'infinite' compared to the load but with the HD800 the load is way bigger than the output imp.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





solude said:


> In an HD800 thread... um yes
> 
> I reserve the right to come to my senses but so far my experience is the HD800 scale really well but are also unforgiving to the point of being flat on lesser gear.  This is my third go around with the HD800 and the first two weren't remotely worth considering over the LCD-2.
> 
> This time around it's walking all over even the LCD-3.


 
  For me, LCD3s vs. HD800s is like choosing between vanilla and chocolate. It would be silly to say which is "better."


----------



## songmic

Just out of curiosity, in what year was the HD800 released?
   
  Also, I heard HD800 scales really well with a balanced setup. Do you guys think that Zana Deux SE, a single-ended amp, can still bloom HD800's potential to the max?


----------



## MacedonianHero

I still love my HD800s (almost 3 years since I got them in). That said, the LCD-3s are still my favourite (non-SR-009) headphone by a reasonable margin.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I still love my HD800s (almost 3 years since I got them in). That said, the LCD-3s are still my favourite (non-SR-009) headphone by a reasonable margin.


 
   
  Peter...
   
  Ha ha ha - I knew you would chime in on this one with that response.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Peter...
> 
> Ha ha ha - I knew you would chime in on this one with that response.


 




   
  Still love my HD800s though. Actually now just over 3 years of having them here. I will keep them until the HD900s are released.


----------



## longbowbbs

Time to join the club....HD800's, the Unboxing Pics!
   
  On the road til Thursday, so I am enjoying them with FLAC's, JRiver 18 and the Audioquest Dragonfly....Volume at 90% but I do not want them any louder.
   
  24/192 FLAC's of Steely Dan's Two Against Nature for my intro....Can't wait to introduce them to the Decware and W4S DAC-2!


----------



## Eee Pee

Ahhhhhh, that new plastic smell... I remember that.


----------



## wolfetan44

Been looking at this or LCD-3. Cant figure out which I should save up for! From what I understand, I'd need a darn good tube amp for the HD800 and a darn good SS amp for the LCD-3. Leaning towards the LCD-3 though.. Amping will be cheaper. And I think I might like them better


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Been looking at this or LCD-3. Cant figure out which I should save up for! From what I understand, I'd need a darn good tube amp for the HD800 and a darn good SS amp for the LCD-3. Leaning towards the LCD-3 though.. Amping will be cheaper. And I think I might like them better


 
   
  Both super phones.  Just ask yourself do you want to do more analytical listening (HD800) or leisurely listening (LCD3) ?


----------



## Maxvla

wolfetan44 said:


> Been looking at this or LCD-3. Cant figure out which I should save up for! From what I understand, I'd need a darn good tube amp for the HD800 and a darn good SS amp for the LCD-3. Leaning towards the LCD-3 though.. Amping will be cheaper. And I think I might like them better


I'd go SS with the HD800 too!


----------



## anetode

You can get great sound out of an HD800 on SS or tubes, single-ended or balanced. There's no magic recipe. The only question is how to compensate for the treble peak, or whether it even bothers you.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Ahhhhhh, that new plastic smell... I remember that.


----------



## wolfetan44

Is the Mojo/gungir good for the HD800?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Is the Mojo/gungir good for the HD800?


 
   
   
  I "would not" vote for that combo..


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Aw. Thats what I rrrreaaaaallllyyy wanted.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Aw. Thats what I rrrreaaaaallllyyy wanted.


 
   
  Mojo with a different DAC.   Say the PWD2 or somthing a littler more forgiving and smooth.


----------



## Maxvla

Hm. I would have said Gungnir with a different amp. Mjolnir takes away the best part of the HD800, it's crystal clear highs. It's still a nice sounding setup, but does blunt the treble slightly.


----------



## preproman

Sorry, but not a fan of the Gungnir.
   
  I compared the Gungnir with a few other DACS.. ie PWD2, M51, Anedio D2, Buffalo III and the XDA-1.  I found the Gungnir to be no better that the XDA-1.  The other DACS was favored by a wide margin.
   
  I also found the Mjolnir to be title towards the top end a bit making it kinda treble happy so to speak.  For me it's to forward sounding no matter how you slice it.  I found with a better DAC it can smooth the top end down a little.


----------



## Maxvla

All the DACs you compared it with are quite a bit more expensive (2-3x price) except the XDA-1.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> All the DACs you compared it with are quite a bit more expensive (2-3x price) except the XDA-1.


 
   
   
  Price was not a depended.  Performace was..


----------



## Maxvla

I'm saying you sound surprised you preferred DACs 2 and 3 times the price of the Gungnir. I would hope they sounded significantly better paying twice as much or more.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> I'm saying you sound surprised you preferred DACs 2 and 3 times the price of the Gungnir. I would hope they sounded significantly better paying twice as much or more.


 
   
  Well wolftan44 asked a question.  I gave my suggestions.  I simply said I would use a different DAC.  Because I found the Gungnir to be less attractive as a performer.  You said you would keep the DAC.  But wolftan44 never said anything about price - or did I miss something?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> I'm saying you sound surprised you preferred DACs 2 and 3 times the price of the Gungnir. I would hope they sounded significantly better paying twice as much or more.


 

 Umm... past a certain point... it doesn't work that way. The $/fidelity gain equation goes to crap after a couple K spent.


----------



## Maxvla

Wasn't talking about him, rather you.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Wasn't talking about him, rather you.


 
   
  Well call me confused then.  This was started with a question from wolftan44.  I didn't bring up cost - just performance.  You do it your way - I'll do it my way.
   
  Thank you very much..


----------



## Maxvla

I don't see how you could be confused. You mentioned DACs that sounded better. I said they should sound better, they are 2-3 times the price. You then say price doesn't matter it's all about the sound, then you ask when did wolfetan ask about price. He didn't.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> I don't see how you could be confused. You mentioned DACs that sounded better. I said they should sound better, they are 2-3 times the price. You then say price doesn't matter it's all about the sound, then you ask when did wolfetan ask about price. He didn't.


 
   
   
  Gotcha


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Been looking at this or LCD-3. Cant figure out which I should save up for! From what I understand, I'd need a darn good tube amp for the HD800 and a darn good SS amp for the LCD-3. Leaning towards the LCD-3 though.. Amping will be cheaper. And I think I might like them better


 
  Where did you get the impression that solid state was more appropriate for LCD3s? Not so as far as I'm concerned. LCD3s thrive with tubes, better than the good solid states I tried. (HE500s can be great with solid state, along with TH900s).


----------



## FlySweep

I've had the HD800 for about a week and a half now.  I've got relatively modest gear upstream of the HD800: an ODAC & a Lake People G109-S amp.  No fancy cables or mods.. but I'm _beyond_ happy with the sound.  I've heard plenty of top tier gear/rigs before getting this HD800.. and while this rig might not be on the same level as running it through a Zana Deux or ECBA.. it's still incredibly enjoyable.. I love how little real estate it all takes up on my desktop, too.  Considering the price & synergy with the G109 & ODAC, this rig packs some serious value.
   
  I bought the HD800 without ever having heard it.. but having read _plenty_ about it.  Some of the things I was worried about.. particularly the 'harsh, brittle, peaky' treble.. has really been a non-issue/non-existent in my experience so far.  Since i don't have a plethora of amps/dacs at my disposal, I can't definitely say if this is due to the phones or the gear upstream, but i sense it's the latter.  The G109 is very transparent but smooth.
   
  I'm seriously impressed by how versatile the HD800 is.. I listen to a lot of independent/instrumental hip hop w/ intricate production, a lot of jazz, soul/funk, slower electronica, as well as liquid DnB.. and I find the HD800 wholly engaging with it all.  It won't deliver the stomach-churning bass punch some might crave (I don't) with a few of these genres.. but what it does deliver is an exquisitely tight, well textured, fast bass response that sounds utterly effortless.  BournePerfect perfectly characterized how I would describe the HD800 in one word: "silk."  In my rig, I don't find it to utterly mangle poorly recorded material.. I'm yet to experience truly harsh treble from it too (most all my music is streamed via (HQ) MOG, SoundCloud, Bandcamp, etc).  Treble sounds very nicely detailed but not overly prominent to my ears.  To me, it sounds very balanced and, for lack of a better description, simply 'right.'
   
  Can't wait to run the HD800 through the TD-11's tube buffer, too.  I don't anticipate upgrading my upstream gear for the foreseeable future since I'm quite happy with how it all sounds at the moment (plus, I can use the G109-S & TD-11 in conjunction with each other).. the only thing I might consider is going fully balanced with the HD800 some time later this year.  In that case, my sights are (currently) set on the Mjolnir.. any recommendations for a a balanced USB (and S/PDIF, if possible) DAC under $500 that would fit in well with the Mjolnir & HD800?


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'd say my budget it around $1500 for the Amp/DAC. The Mojo/Gungir is a little high but thats fine. $1700 is THE very top..


----------



## Maxvla

Check out the upcoming BMC Pure DAC which is a quality DAC and supposedly quality balanced headamp in the same box for $1600. 

The resonessence concero DAC seems to be doing well but I haven't heard it yet. Not sure what to recommend for amp as there aren't any really killer SS amps at that price point. The Little Dot MKVI is a good balanced tube option tailor made for high impedance cans which I ran with the HD600s. It runs about $700 + shipping.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Check out the upcoming BMC Pure DAC which is a quality DAC and supposedly quality balanced headamp in the same box for $1600.
> 
> The resonessence concero DAC seems to be doing well but I haven't heard it yet. Not sure what to recommend for amp as there aren't any really killer SS amps at that price point. The Little Dot MKVI is a good balanced tube option tailor made for high impedance cans which I ran with the HD600s. It runs about $700 + shipping.


 
  I like that BMC. Would it be good with the HD800?


----------



## Maxvla

Nobody knows. It's not released.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Nobody knows. It's not released.


 
  Aw. Haha. Thanks for the suggestions guys.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I know there are always differences with peoples DAC preferences. I am very happy with the W4S DAC-2. Right price point too.


----------



## Maxvla

Depending on who you are meaning with price point. For Wolf that blows his whole budget without an amp.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> Can't wait to run the HD800 through the TD-11's tube buffer, too.  I don't anticipate upgrading my upstream gear for the foreseeable future since I'm quite happy with how it all sounds at the moment (plus, I can use the G109-S & TD-11 in conjunction with each other).. the only thing I might consider is going fully balanced with the HD800 some time later this year.  In that case, my sights are (currently) set on the Mjolnir.. any recommendations for a a balanced USB (and S/PDIF, if possible) DAC under $500 that would fit in well with the Mjolnir & HD800?


 
   
  There are two balanced dacs that I am aware of under $500 but I certainly am no expert at the price range. They are the Matrix mini-i which I have never heard and the Yulong D100. I believe the latter is just about $500 and it is a very good dac but also has an ok amp. I did not have the HD800 at the same time as the D100 but it was a pretty good dac esp at $500. It won't be perfect but a pretty versatile unit in how you want to use it. I think it might be comparable to my concero but it's been a long time since I owned it. Balanced dacs under $500 are not that plentiful unfortunately.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Depending on who you are meaning with price point. For Wolf that blows his whole budget without an amp.


 
  I have an O2


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> There are two balanced dacs that I am aware of under $500 but I certainly am no expert at the price range. They are the Matrix mini-i which I have never heard and the Yulong D100. I believe the latter is just about $500 and it is a very good dac but also has an ok amp. I did not have the HD800 at the same time as the D100 but it was a pretty good dac esp at $500. It won't be perfect but a pretty versatile unit in how you want to use it. I think it might be comparable to my concero but it's been a long time since I owned it. Balanced dacs under $500 are not that plentiful unfortunately.


 
  For a balanced DAC under $500, a used PS Audio DLIII is a great option IMO.
   
  For under $2500, the W4S DAC-2 is the best I've heard. For under $5k, I like the Weiss DAC.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> I'd say my budget it around $1500 for the Amp/DAC. The Mojo/Gungir is a little high but thats fine. $1700 is THE very top..


 

 Well, the amp part is easy. Pick up a used M^3 or Dynalo. Easy to find, cheap ($300-$500), and are still the best in and significantly beyond their price range. The M^3 is very forgiving and its sound can be tailored so that would be my leading recommendation.

 For the DAC, get the best you can afford. Read reviews, stick to used (DACs depreciate quickly), and pay attention to experienced folks and not newbies parroting others' opinions. Also, DAC technology moves ahead fast, so try to avoid very old digital sources.


----------



## JustinGN

Got mine today after dealing with Colorware for seven weeks. Doubt I'll do business with them again, but their paint job is phenomenal!  As for the HD 800s, they tend to drown out the bass in music, but I'm chalking that up to my Fiio E17/E9 combo and the fact they're fresh out of the box.  A few days of break-in and the ASUS Essence One arriving on Thursday should give them a lot more breathing room.
   
*Initial Impressions*
  I'd definitely put the HD 800 in the "atmospheric" category than "performance".  I don't get the impression of a distinct sound stage in front of me like I did with the 555s; instead, it feels like I'm "surrounded" by the music, without it being "in my head" like many IEM's and cheap cans produce.  It's definitely a trippy feeling, and my brain loves it (especially with some Paul Van Dyk or Eric Prydz).  The cable feels much longer than the 555s, but nothing I can't manage (these are used in a desktop setup).  About to fire up some games and see how they fare, as I really loved my 555s for gaming.
   
*Music Impressions*
  Using iTunes (no ASIO compatible gear for Foobar), playback of lossless and HD music sounded fantastic. I know a lot of people complain they sound bright, and there is that distinct sharpness on the highs, but they don't seem to live up to that reputation; could be the Fiio holding them back, though.  Paul Van Dyk's Evolution album sounds great, though the lows are restricted by my gear.  Pretty Hate Machine by NIN (1989 release) sounds very crisp and the various synths well separated; again, lack of bass by the Fiio.  Immersion by Pendulum has the same symptoms of Pretty Hate Machine: everything is well differentiated, but bass just isn't there from the little Fiio amp!
   
*You sure it's the Fiio?*
  Positive. Equalization or frequency boosting does nothing to the overall sound except heavily distort what little bass there already is.
   
  More later...


----------



## Maxvla

Colorware HD800s show up and there are no pictures? You just lost yourself 1 whole internet, Justin.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





shahrose said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Could I get some links for the M^3 or the Dynalo? I can't find them!! What DAC were other people thinking?


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





justingn said:


> *Initial Impressions*
> I'd definitely put the HD 800 in the "atmospheric" category than "performance".  I don't get the impression of a distinct sound stage in front of me like I did with the 555s; instead, it feels like I'm "surrounded" by the music, without it being "in my head" like many IEM's and cheap cans produce.  It's definitely a trippy feeling, and my brain loves it (especially with some Paul Van Dyk or Eric Prydz).  The cable feels much longer than the 555s, but nothing I can't manage (these are used in a desktop setup).  About to fire up some games and see how they fare, as I really loved my 555s for gaming.


 
   
  I  guess I never have enough of that "atmospheric" feeling. I've been experimenting with some dsp to push it further. The big image separation of the hd800, and the hot treble, are a bit distracting, for something "atmospheric".


----------



## Maxvla

wolfetan44 said:


> Could I get some links for the M^3 or the Dynalo? I can't find them!! What DAC were other people thinking?



M3 and Dynalo are DIY type amps, but some are made commercially. Have you tried searching with those names in the Amps for sale forum?


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'd like them new. Where are they made commercially?


----------



## Maxvla

I'm not sure any are in current production. Perhaps someone else will know of a source. You could always try to build one yourself too


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> I'm not sure any are in current production. Perhaps someone else will know of a source. You could always try to build one yourself too


 
  Oh god. What a mess that would be


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Depending on who you are meaning with price point. For Wolf that blows his whole budget without an amp.


 





 (I will not speed read....I will not speed read....)
   
  What about the new Woo Firefly? Amp/Dac and under budget?


----------



## Maxvla

And good looking. No idea how it performs with HD800 though.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'd love to go balanced, but is it not that big of a deal: balanced?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> I'd like them new. Where are they made commercially?


 
   
  One of the best current builders out:
   
  http://solderworksaudio.com/index.html


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I feel like an idiot, but I don't see prices, and I know there aren't prices there. Best way to know is to contact? Also, would that amp also work well with the LCD-3 you think?


----------



## Maxvla

Try the contact page.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Try the contact page.


 
  Just did


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Just did


 
   
  At this rate, you're going to burn yourself out before you can drive...


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> I feel like an idiot, but I don't see prices, and I know there aren't prices there. Best way to know is to contact? Also, would that amp also work well with the LCD-3 you think?


 
   
  Contact him to get a quote on your specific build.  I have a balanced M^3 - that's something you can talk to him about.  Yes, it would work well with the LCD-3s.  He can also recommend the best op amps to use with your specific headphones.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 Cars can't run on high-end headphones? What a shame..


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I actually love this idea of custom amps built for specific headphones. Its amazziizzzing.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The cables are not long enough to get out of the driveway....


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 My dreams have been crushed because of you


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You need a longer cable...Oh...I found one!
   
   

   
  The worlds largest ball of twine!   Maybe they have a litz version....


----------



## wolfetan44




----------



## olor1n

The Gungnir/MJ stack is a damn good one for the LCD-2. Not so much for the HD800. The NAD M51 feeding the MJ is much better.


----------



## JustinGN

maxvla said:


> Colorware HD800s show up and there are no pictures? You just lost yourself 1 whole internet, Justin.




Just for you, Maxvla:


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





justingn said:


> Just for you, Maxvla:


 

 well, looks like a toy ... but why not.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





justingn said:


> Got mine today after dealing with Colorware for seven weeks.* Doubt I'll do business with them again, *


 
   
  Why,  what happend?


----------



## Maxvla

justingn said:


> Just for you, Maxvla:



Packer fan??


----------



## JustinGN

preproman said:


> Why,  what happend?




They quoted me "about four weeks", but it took them six before they even sent me an email about my order status, and they arrived the seventh week. I called prior, of course, but got shrugged off by the phone and chat reps and placated with "any day now" answers for almost three weeks.

Their paint skills are phenomenal. Their communication skills however, are not. I didn't even get an apology for the delay, just a bump to overnight shipping (woo, a $25 value on $1500 headphones) and a "thank you for your patience." Heck, I've had better communication from Amazon over a $15 DVD than I did from Colorware.


----------



## JustinGN

maxvla said:


> Packer fan??




No way! Check the icon - it's my favorite color scheme. Green-Yellow-Black.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





justingn said:


> They quoted me "about four weeks", but it took them six before they even sent me an email about my order status, and they arrived the seventh week.


 
   
  Don't get in line for a HeadAmp GS-X then, we're going on month seven give or take


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





justingn said:


> They quoted me "about four weeks", but it took them six before they even sent me an email about my order status, and they arrived the seventh week. I called prior, of course, but got shrugged off by the phone and chat reps and placated with "any day now" answers for almost three weeks.
> 
> Their paint skills are phenomenal. Their communication skills however, are not. I didn't even get an apology for the delay, just a bump to overnight shipping (woo, a $25 value on $1500 headphones) and a "thank you for your patience." Heck, I've had better communication from Amazon over a $15 DVD than I did from Colorware.


 
   
   
  Ha ha ha.  I waited for 5 weeks then they shipped mine.  I was cool with it..  I'll buy from them again, knowing it will take about 2 months. 
   
  Hope they get the HD7000


----------



## JustinGN

preproman said:


> Ha ha ha.  I waited for 5 weeks then they shipped mine.  I was cool with it..  I'll buy from them again, knowing it will take about 2 months.
> 
> Hope they get the HD7000




The time wasn't the issue, it was the complete lack of communication on their part. I always had to contact them, only to be told of delays with my order and very generic ETAs meant to placate me. I don't mind waiting if the vendor keeps me updated.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





justingn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Nice!....Packer Colors! Maybe they could add a subtle #12 to them...


----------



## brokenthumb

Quote: 





justingn said:


> Just for you, Maxvla:


 
  This was the first thing I thought of when I saw them.
   

   
   
  I'm really thinking about sending back my HD700 and selling the HD650 to buy the HD800.  Not that I don't like the HD700, it's just... that I love it so much that I really want to hear the HD800.  My only fear is the bass.  If the HD800 comes close to the amount of bass the HD700 has then I'll be fine with it.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





brokenthumb said:


> This was the first thing I thought of when I saw them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The HD700 has good bass?


----------



## brokenthumb

Quote: 





preproman said:


> The HD700 has good bass?


 
   
  Yes!  To me it does.  It's not a planar type bass but it's better than the HD650's bass to me.  Very fast and detailed with just the right amount of punch.


----------



## JustinGN

Quote: 





preproman said:


> The HD700 has good bass?


 
   
  I thought it did when I coaxed a pair out of Sennheiser at PAX East last year. Admittedly, a show floor that size isn't a good demo environment, but they were demoing the HD800s with some hip-hop and bass-heavy rap, and both the HD 700 and HD 800 put out a good amount.  I preferred the fit and finish of the HD 800 though, especially how I could still clearly make out the music despite the noisy show floor.


----------



## JustinGN

Quote: 





brokenthumb said:


> This was the first thing I thought of when I saw them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
Damnit Gosh darn it! My family thought the same thing, too, when I showed them my Colorware samples.  My brother, being a Packers fan, pointed out the scheme as well.
   
  1) I'm not a football fan, so no, they're not Packers HD 800s 
  2) I'm not a John Deere fan, so no, they're not John Deere HD 800s 
   
  I just like the Green-Yellow-Black color scheme, is all! Though I guess I should complete the ensemble with a green tee shirt and green striped overshirt before PAX East starts.  Be the Sennheiser Green Meanie!


----------



## brokenthumb

Quote: 





justingn said:


> I thought it did when I coaxed a pair out of Sennheiser at PAX East last year. Admittedly, a show floor that size isn't a good demo environment, but they were demoing the HD800s with some hip-hop and bass-heavy rap, and *both the HD 700 and HD 800 put out a good amount*.  I preferred the fit and finish of the HD 800 though, especially how I could still clearly make out the music despite the noisy show floor.


 
   
  Sounds good to me.  I expect the HD800 to reach deeper and have even more detail in the bass.  Now if I can bring myself to actually box these back up, they sound too good.
   
  I've always liked the green and black of the car in Bullitt.  Almost bought one of these but ended up with a yellow and black one... ugh what was I thinking.


----------



## smoothtalker

just bought my HD800! can't wait to receive it


----------



## JustinGN

brokenthumb said:


> Sounds good to me.  I expect the HD800 to reach deeper and have even more detail in the bass.  Now if I can bring myself to actually box these back up, they sound too good.
> 
> I've always liked the green and black of the car in Bullitt.  Almost bought one of these but ended up with a yellow and black one... ugh what was I thinking.




I'll probably get banned for saying this, but *I've never seen Bullitt.*


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





justingn said:


> I'll probably get banned for saying this, but *I've never seen Bullitt.*


 
  Neither has my four year old, but I have only have myself to blame for that. You on the other hand... have no excuse. 
   
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wD64vlMxLA


----------



## RustA

My impressions against LCD-2 rev2.5:
   
*Part 1:* http://www.head-fi.org/t/639785/he500-or-lcd2-or-both-please-share-your-impressions-mini-review-and-poll-please-vote/315#post_9161669
*Part 2:* http://www.head-fi.org/t/639785/he500-or-lcd2-or-both-please-share-your-impressions-mini-review-and-poll-please-vote/330#post_9162838
   
  HD800 are so good!


----------



## Maxvla

Agreed on all fronts, though I would temper your complaint about distracting treble levels. I think you are right about it, but it's very minor in my case. It's not 'wow too much treble' its more of a 'hmm that was interesting'.


----------



## brokenthumb

Quote: 





rusta said:


> My impressions against LCD-2 rev2.5:
> 
> *Part 1:* http://www.head-fi.org/t/639785/he500-or-lcd2-or-both-please-share-your-impressions-mini-review-and-poll-please-vote/315#post_9161669
> *Part 2:* http://www.head-fi.org/t/639785/he500-or-lcd2-or-both-please-share-your-impressions-mini-review-and-poll-please-vote/330#post_9162838
> ...


 
   
  Nice impressions!  You put me over the edge with the soundstage impressions, that's exactly what I'm looking for.  I've officially boxed up the HD700 and it's waiting for UPS pick up.  Will be going with the HD800, can't wait!


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





brokenthumb said:


> Nice impressions!  You put me over the edge with the soundstage impressions, that's exactly what I'm looking for.  I've officially boxed up the HD700 and it's waiting for UPS pick up.  Will be going with the HD800, can't wait!


 
   
  You are going to be amazed, believe me... It's really 3D as much as it gets with headphones, most probably!


----------



## Solude

It's unreal is what it is.  I was listening to an interview during a media day and hearing the surrounding interviews and crowd placed outside my head into the room was eerie.  Thought for sure my speakers were still on.


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *RustA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My impressions against LCD-2 rev2.5:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Terrific impressions.. I haven't spent any serious length of time with the LCD-2.2.. but all your thoughts on the HD800 virtually mirror mine.. particularly in regards to the treble, the natural sound, and bass.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





rusta said:


> My impressions against LCD-2 rev2.5:
> 
> *Part 1:* http://www.head-fi.org/t/639785/he500-or-lcd2-or-both-please-share-your-impressions-mini-review-and-poll-please-vote/315#post_9161669
> *Part 2:* http://www.head-fi.org/t/639785/he500-or-lcd2-or-both-please-share-your-impressions-mini-review-and-poll-please-vote/330#post_9162838
> ...


 
   
   
  There is no rev2.5  Only 2.2 officially


----------



## smoothtalker

I heard that Eric Palonen aka theDeliveryMan is no longer with sennheiser! omg


----------



## wolfetan44

WA7 good for the HD800? Anyone know yet?


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





rusta said:


> You are going to be amazed, believe me... It's really 3D as much as it gets with headphones, most probably!


 
   
  Try putting a pair of HD650 on top of them if you want to hear "as 3D as it gets".


----------



## J-Pak

I've had GS-X and Balancing Act. BA is definitely the best I have ever heard the HD800, more holographic soundstage, better micro-detail.
   
  I can't say I miss my old O2 mk1 or SR-Omega much with the HD800/BA.


----------



## Kenion

You will be amazed how good the HD-800's are for gaming as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Sometimes I even prefer them over my surround system for movies/gaming, the soundstage is just *that* good.
  People tend to underestimate the power of stereo when it comes to pin-pointing audio sources from around you.


----------



## Solude

Good stereo beats terrible surround every day of the week.  I actually once upon a time had a near 20K surround setup that I curbed for a 10K stereo setup that simply smashed it even for movie watching.  And now my speaker rig is $2K /facepalm


----------



## Tundramystic

After eagerly waiting for a little over a month, I just received in the mail a "20XXX" pair of custom-colored Sennheiser HD800's from Colorware. I would say they look absolutely gorgeous and i'm definitely going to have a some pictures uploaded for you guys when I have time.
   
  Hoping you guys are in for some eye-candy.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





tundramystic said:


> After eagerly waiting for a little over a month, I just received in the mail a "20XXX" pair of custom-colored Sennheiser HD800's from Colorware. I would say they look absolutely gorgeous and i'm definitely going to have a some pictures uploaded for you guys when I have time.
> 
> Hoping you guys are in for some eye-candy.


 
   
  Definitely, post them here! I prefer the original look over anything I've seen so far though (grey is my favourite colour).


----------



## Maxvla

tundramystic said:


> After eagerly waiting for a little over a month, I just received in the mail a "20XXX" pair of custom-colored Sennheiser HD800's from Colorware. I would say they look absolutely gorgeous and i'm definitely going to have a some pictures uploaded for you guys when I have time.
> 
> Hoping you guys are in for some eye-candy.



Pics are certainly required!!


----------



## Tundramystic

Alright, before my lunch break is over. I took a quick snapshot for you guys with the iPad. HD800's is a bit lengthy say so I call them "Stormtroopers" due to the color scheme. Up-close shots or hi-rez photos later, yeah? I enjoy looking at them just as much as listening to them.


----------



## Maxvla

Hard to tell on this crappy monitor at work. Is that gloss black on screens and arms and gloss white on the rest? Looks nice  Very storm trooper-ish.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





tundramystic said:


> Alright, before my lunch break is over. I took a quick snapshot for you guys with the iPad. HD800's is a bit lengthy say so I call them "Stormtroopers" due to the color scheme. Up-close shots or hi-rez photos later, yeah? I enjoy looking at them just as much as listening to them.


 
  heh heh...."These are not the cans you are looking for"...."You must send them to Longbowbbs"...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Very nice! Congrats...


----------



## jazzerdave

I've been playing with color combinations on the Colorware website for days now.  At this rate I'll never decide (though I do still plan to sell my HE-6 and LCD-3 before I take the plunge).


----------



## Maxvla

Do it, do it now!


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





tundramystic said:


> Alright, before my lunch break is over. I took a quick snapshot for you guys with the iPad. HD800's is a bit lengthy say so I call them "Stormtroopers" due to the color scheme. Up-close shots or hi-rez photos later, yeah? I enjoy looking at them just as much as listening to them.


 
   
   
  I must say.  They sure do a great job of painting the headphones..  I know you'll love yours just as much as I do mine.
   
  Congrats..


----------



## brokenthumb

I really like the look of the Stormtrooper 800, looking forward to the hi-rez photos.
   
  Also... my HD800's are scheduled to arrive on Thursday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  djflsadjfsdfjlkfjdskjf  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Excited to say the least.  I think I will go drool over HD800 photos on google images now...


----------



## Spakka

These seem to be extremely popular at the moment. 
   
  Since I'm currently waiting for a replacement pair after Sennheiser failed to repair mine (sent it back with same problem but worse!) the dealer has told me they are sold out in the UK!!
   
  And they'd sold >10 over Christmas...
   
   
  No wonder they're over 20k


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





brokenthumb said:


> I really like the look of the Stormtrooper 800, looking forward to the hi-rez photos.
> 
> Also... my HD800's are scheduled to arrive on Thursday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  djflsadjfsdfjlkfjdskjf
> 
> ...


 
   
  Looking forward to see your impressions here! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  After spending a week with them, they are only getting better and better to my ears... An ultimate dynamic headphone! That fenomenal 3D soundstage, separation, imaging, detail and comfort are really keeping me from all the other headphones (except SR-009 which cost too much). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Still, I am glad I didn't choose them at the very beginning of my hi-fi road... I am now much more experienced to truly appreciate that I've finally found the headphone I was dreaming about.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Do it, do it now!


 
   
  But I'm holding off until after our meet so there's more variety.  I'm doing this for you!


----------



## jackskelly

I finally asked for, and received, my frequency response graph! I love Sennheiser so much.


----------



## Maxvla

jazzerdave said:


> But I'm holding off until after our meet so there's more variety.  I'm doing this for you!



Right. You keep telling yourself that. :rolleyes:


----------



## brokenthumb

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Looking forward to see your impressions here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah I wouldn't have known what I had if I'd went straight to the HD800 in the beginning.  I started out wanting bass, next came my treble happy days, then I craved mids, now I'm hoping the HD800 put it all together in one nice package.  HE-500 was really close to the total package for me, just needed the airy soundstage and comfort of the HD700/650.
   
  Maybe the HD800 will be my final stop for a while, I can then concentrate on building a system around them.


----------



## Leslie Dorner

I'm thinking about getting the Sennheiser HD-800. I'm wondering how they sound with Ray Samuels Audio headphone amplifiers specifically the HR-2. Can anyone point me to reviews?


----------



## Leslie Dorner

I got the HeadRoom Ultra Desktop Amp with DAC and Desktop Power Supply. How does the HD-800 sound with it?


----------



## wolfetan44

How long is the cable?


----------



## Solude

Stock is 10ft.


----------



## ThePaintMan

My name is Jason and I am the VP of Business Dev at ColorWare.  Just wanted to drop you a note and tell you thanks for your purchase and I am glad to hear you like your headphones.  It's great to see our work out in the public like this.  If you need anything in the future don't hesitate to contact us.  Enjoy! 
  Quote: 





tundramystic said:


> Alright, before my lunch break is over. I took a quick snapshot for you guys with the iPad. HD800's is a bit lengthy say so I call them "Stormtroopers" due to the color scheme. Up-close shots or hi-rez photos later, yeah? I enjoy looking at them just as much as listening to them.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





thepaintman said:


> My name is Jason and I am the VP of Business Dev at ColorWare.  Just wanted to drop you a note and tell you thanks for your purchase and I am glad to hear you like your headphones.  It's great to see our work out in the public like this.  If you need anything in the future don't hesitate to contact us.  Enjoy!


 
  Hi Jason,
   
  Will you be getting the HD700s as well?


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Hi Jason,
> 
> Will you be getting the HD700s as well?


 
   
  You mean customised HD700 by Colorware? Never realised it's actually possible but sounds great!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





thepaintman said:


> My name is Jason and I am the VP of Business Dev at ColorWare.  Just wanted to drop you a note and tell you thanks for your purchase and I am glad to hear you like your headphones.  It's great to see our work out in the public like this.  If you need anything in the future don't hesitate to contact us.  Enjoy!
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Jason, what is the turn around time for sending in a pair for repainting from stock?


----------



## ThePaintMan

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Hi Jason,
> 
> Will you be getting the HD700s as well?


 

 It is a product we are looking into and in fact I have a customized one that we prototyped at my desk now.  We have been a ridiculously busy company for the past couple years so finding where to fit products in is the harder issue.  It is a very expensive process for us to launch a product so we need to make sure that we'll move enough of them to make it worth the time.  We do enjoy the Sennheiser products though and do plan to add 1 or 2 more of them in the future.  I'll be checking back here occasionally to get some input from everyone from time to time I am sure.


----------



## ThePaintMan

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Jason, what is the turn around time for sending in a pair for repainting from stock?


 

 Unfortunately about 1 1/2 years ago we had to make a policy change to only sell new products.  We no longer accept send in products.  I know that makes it a little hard for some people, but it was making our process much harder to work on used products even if they were in good shape.


----------



## third_eye

Quote: 





thepaintman said:


> Unfortunately about 1 1/2 years ago we had to make a policy change to only sell new products.  We no longer accept send in products.  I know that makes it a little hard for some people, but it was making our process much harder to work on used products even if they were in good shape.


 

 Bummer. I just sent in a request on this topic.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





thepaintman said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I respect the perspective....What is your typical delivery time from a custom paint order?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





thepaintman said:


> It is a product we are looking into and in fact I have a customized one that we prototyped at my desk now.  We have been a ridiculously busy company for the past couple years so finding where to fit products in is the harder issue.  It is a very expensive process for us to launch a product so we need to make sure that we'll move enough of them to make it worth the time.  We do enjoy the Sennheiser products though and do plan to add 1 or 2 more of them in the future.  I'll be checking back here occasionally to get some input from everyone from time to time I am sure.


 
   
   
  Count me in for a pair.  I was thinking of getting a pair anyway..


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I respect the perspective....What is your typical delivery time from a custom paint order?


 
   
  For my HD800s it was 4 to 5 weeks.


----------



## Maxvla

Hi Jason.

Appreciate you signing up and making your presence known. As you can see in my avatar, I have taken advantage of your service making myself a matte black stealthy HD800. Thanks for making this possible. I love mine!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Not too bad by custom standards,,,,


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Hi Jason.
> 
> Appreciate you signing up and making your presence known. As you can see in my avatar, I have taken advantage of your service making myself a matte black stealthy HD800. Thanks for making this possible. I love mine!


 
  Could I get a picture? I was thinking of getting a matte black HD800, I love how it looks on the website.


----------



## Maxvla




----------



## wolfetan44

Those are beautiful. Is there a way to put wood cups on these baby's? Also, what is the best amp for $1000 and best DAC for $1000?


----------



## wolfetan44

Narrowed it down to the WA6SE or the WA2. Others? Which one is the best i could get!


----------



## Maxvla

Able to stretch for the BHA-1? I know it's more expensive than when I bought it unfortunately 

I had the non-SE WA6 with the HD800 and it was far from acceptable.

No idea on DACs, but I am going ok with the Gungnir. Hoping for a good improvement from the Matrix X-Sabre I have incoming.


----------



## wolfetan44

Is it a worthy stretch? And I've heard the SE is great with the HD800(or what I think I heard..)


----------



## Maxvla

Worth it in balanced. I think the SE is not as good, but others have said they are the same quality.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Not too bad by custom standards,,,,


 
   
  Yeah, I got my HD800 in 15 hours after placing the order...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That's some fine turn around!


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> That's some fine turn around!


 
   
  Yeah, really great - I purchased in the evening and got it during the next morning (fast overnight shipping within my country for free). But it wasn't really a customised pair or anything - just normal order (but with a nice discount).


----------



## ThePaintMan

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Hi Jason.
> 
> Appreciate you signing up and making your presence known. As you can see in my avatar, I have taken advantage of your service making myself a matte black stealthy HD800. Thanks for making this possible. I love mine!


 

 Glad to hear you enjoy them. It's funny that our company offers 46 different color options and black and white are two of the most popular.  However we do get some pretty wild color combinations as well so we're glad to see people can get exactly what they want.


----------



## ThePaintMan

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I respect the perspective....What is your typical delivery time from a custom paint order?


 

 Right now lead times are about 2 weeks.  That of course can vary...sometimes it can be 3-4 weeks as well just depending on the time of the year and what corporate projects we have going on.


----------



## third_eye

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Those are beautiful. Is there a way to put wood cups on these baby's? Also, what is the best amp for $1000 and best DAC for $1000?


 
   
  With a $2000 budget, I would go for something like BHA-1/Concero DAC or a standalone box like Mytek 192/Grace m903/Anedio D2


----------



## jackskelly

I've heard some people say that Sennheiser tweaked something for the "new" version of the HD800. Is this true? If so, what is it? I have serial number 15905, bought in April of 2012. Was the tweak made after that?


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





jackskelly said:


> I've heard some people say that Sennheiser tweaked something for the "new" version of the HD800. Is this true? If so, what is it? I have serial number 15905, bought in April of 2012. Was the tweak made after that?


 
   
  I think there is no official new version... However, my pair (s/n 19008) has more than enough bass for modern music along with non-abrassive treble. I haven't experienced any painful peak or even a moment of HD800's treble hitting my ears uncomfortably.
   
  I would say that with my LCD-2 (newest revision), treble is very calm but can sometimes be a bit uncomfortable to ears (only to treble-sensitive people like me and only with certain recordings/moments, because of their peak around 9-10 khz). But with HD800, I haven't experienced any trouble with highs AT ALL, even with neutral SS amp and with modern music. Not a single moment of pain or bad feeling. With brightly-mastered metal recordings, you can feel that overly bright sound but it's nowhere near what people normally say about HD800 (extremely unforgiving, unbearably bright with neutral amps, painful treble peak around 6khz, not enough bass etc.).
   
  My pair sounds great with almost everything I throw on them... Female vocals started to sound really nice after some sort of burn-in (I guess I currently became a believer...). Electric guitars are still rather a bit analytic and overall signature is still significantly "heavier" with LCD-2 in comparison to HD800 but I must say that I actually prefer the bass of HD800 because it's very nicely defined as well but MUCH MORE separated and therefore a lot more real and enjoyable to my ears.
   
  I must say that I now agree with David's opinion that these headphones are a NEUTRALITY KING. Yes, after burn-in, these definitely are very neutral... So "musicality" seekers should definitely reach for appropriate amplification.


----------



## Solude

No argument here.  I have the LCD-2.2 and HD800 right now and when I listen the the LCD-2.2 I notice fairly quickly that it's dark though bass presence is good the definition is rather poor.  The HD800 immediately after the LCD-2 sound a little thin and grainy but within a song or two the brain adjust/accepts it and all is well.


----------



## Solude

No argument here.  I have the LCD-2.2 and HD800 right now and when I listen the the LCD-2.2 I notice fairly quickly that it's dark though bass presence is good the definition is rather poor.  The HD800 immediately after the LCD-2 sound a little thin and grainy but within a song or two the brain adjust/accepts it and all is well.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





solude said:


> No argument here.  I have the LCD-2.2 and HD800 right now and when I listen the the LCD-2.2 I notice fairly quickly that it's dark though bass presence is good the definition is rather poor.  The HD800 immediately after the LCD-2 sound a little thin and grainy but within a song or two the brain adjust/accepts it and all is well.


 
   
  Yeah, I think I would agree with this... On the other hand, are HD800 a little thin, or LCD-2 a little full? I don't think I have the answer but I can definitely say that HD800 sound significantly more natural than LCD-2 because of their imaging, separation, soundstage and detail as well. Based on frequency response only, I would maybe prefer LCD-2 but the abilites of HD800 to render a realistic scene just beat LCD-2 to my ears...
   
  IMHO, of course.


----------



## jackskelly

Quote: 





rusta said:


> I think there is no official new version... However, my pair (s/n 19008) has more than enough bass for modern music along with non-abrassive treble. I haven't experienced any painful peak or even a moment of HD800's treble hitting my ears uncomfortably.
> 
> I would say that with my LCD-2 (newest revision), treble is very calm but can sometimes be a bit uncomfortable to ears (only to treble-sensitive people like me and only with certain recordings/moments, because of their peak around 9-10 khz). But with HD800, I haven't experienced any trouble with highs AT ALL, even with neutral SS amp and with modern music. Not a single moment of pain or bad feeling. With brightly-mastered metal recordings, you can feel that overly bright sound but it's nowhere near what people normally say about HD800 (extremely unforgiving, unbearably bright with neutral amps, painful treble peak around 6khz, not enough bass etc.).
> 
> ...


 
   
  I agree with you about the high frequencies. Although my model number is earlier than yours, I think the highs sound great on it (as does the entire sound spectrum really), I really haven't experienced any problems in that regard. Some of that may be due to the amp I'm using, supposedly NuForce designed the DAC-100 with the HD 800 in mind (which was part of the reason why I bought it).


----------



## paradoxper

I'm back to joining team HD800. Have to wonder how long it'll be before they're in my hands though.


----------



## Maxvla

You go colorware?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> You go colorware?


 
  Not this go around. If I like them and decide to keep 'em, I'll sell 'em and buy a ColorWare pair.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I'm back to joining team HD800. Have to wonder how long it'll be before they're in my hands though.


 
   
  Really? What makes you wanting them once again?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Really? What makes you wanting them once again?


 
  Anecdotal reports of newer pairs sounding different.


----------



## Maxvla

Ah, I figured when you said you had no idea when they would arrive that you had gone colorware.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Ah, I figured when you said you had no idea when they would arrive that you had gone colorware.


 
  Where ever Jan ships from.


----------



## Solude

Jan ships DHL. Mine took 5 days from Germany to Canada.


----------



## wolfetan44

Anyone else vouch for the BHA-1 and Concero DAC?


----------



## wolfetan44

So I think the BHA-1 will be my amp. What about the Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC+? Or would be getting a tube DAC with a SS amp not go so well?


----------



## Maxvla

Dont know about the combo. A nearby friend has the Concero but as we will be attending a big meet in a week we won't be meeting up to test DACs in particular. There probably will not be opportunity to do it at the meet either. I have the show to run and a lot of things on my plate I want to try already. We may do a micro meet soon after but you probably don't want to wait that long. I have the Matrix X-Sabre coming in to try as well.


----------



## jiminy

Am I missing something? why are Canadians buying from Germany instead of USA.
Colourware charges $1500
Meier audio charges nearer $1576 and I'm assuming you have to pay some sort of tax either way.

By the way those matt black 800's make my wallet grown.


----------



## wolfetan44

Is all Bryston stuff good? Imagine having a 4 stack Bryston stack that look al the same. BHA-1, BDP-2, BDA-2, and a MPS-2. Can anyone vouch for this setup? It sounds insanely AWESOME. Haha.


----------



## DTrewwye

Having heard the Bryston products - the BHA-1 is one of the better ones for SS amps.  The BDA-2 however...I'd rather the cash be used elsewhere and comparisons to better performers.

 MPS-2 is only needed if you're gonna buy all Bryston products without a power supply inside.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> Is all Bryston stuff good? Imagine having a 4 stack Bryston stack that look al the same. BHA-1, BDP-2, BDA-2, and a MPS-2. Can anyone vouch for this setup? It sounds insanely AWESOME. Haha.


 
   
  Bryston is an excellent company that backs their products with very long warranties and excellent service.  That being said, their products are not infallible.  On the BHA-1 I got the chance to check out, the balanced output was excellent, but the singled-ended output fell flat for me (made a balanced K701 sound better than a SE wired LCD-2 -- even the bass).  I also don't particularly enjoy their speaker amps.  I think they're very good with sharp detail, but I find them a bit hot/sterile.  It's all personal preference though (I have a tendency to prefer MOSFET to Bipolar amplifiers).  
   
  I certainly liked the BHA-1/BDA-1 combo via the balanced output and strongly considered purchasing it but haven't heard the BDP-2 or MPS-2.  See if you can't find an opportunity to check them all out at some point.  Unless I'm mistaken, it's not like you're purchasing these tomorrow or anything.  Start saving for the Bryston headphone amp/DAC and HD800 pairing now with the knowledge that something you prefer may very well come out between now and the time you're ready to buy.


----------



## Maxvla

I think the BDA-2 might be overpriced. I haven't heard it but it seems rather expensive for what you get. Perhaps it is priced in line with the speaker gear instead of the headphone amp which is priced just a little more than I think it warrants. I think the BHA-1 should sell for 1000-1100.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





jiminy said:


> Meier audio charges nearer $1576 and I'm assuming you have to pay some sort of tax either way.


 
   
  No.  Just no.  The EU price jumped last week but my three HD800s prior to that were $1105.  Whether I buy from the US or EU I pay tax so... buy from where the product is from.  It's like buying Stax out of Japan... if you want to pay $5200 for a SR-009 be my guest.  I'll pay Japan $3600


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





solude said:


> No.  Just no.  The EU price jumped last week but my three HD800s prior to that were $1105.  Whether I buy from the US or EU I pay tax so... buy from where the product is from.  It's like buying Stax out of Japan... if you want to pay $5200 for a SR-009 be my guest.  I'll pay Japan $3600


 
  ^^


----------



## brokenthumb

Look what arrived today!  Only listened 4 hours so far but I can't find a single thing I would change about the sound.  Simply perfection to my ears.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





brokenthumb said:


> Look what arrived today!  Only listened 4 hours so far but I can't find a single thing I would change about the sound.  Simply perfection to my ears.


 
  Congrats!


----------



## Girls Generation

Jan does 1320 shipped. Funny because I'm about to put down the purchase from Jan as well, Cory!
   
  5 days... I leave Winnipeg next Friday... Knowing DHL I'll probably get them before I leave (otherwise I'm screwed).
   
  I have the Mjolnir/Gungnir, and I'm wondering how the HD800s sound out of this particular pair. I've read reports of it not being a good match at all, but didn't go into specifics.


----------



## Maxvla

You can read my thoughts on the pairing here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/631313/schiit-mjolnir-vs-bryston-bha-1-and-schiit-gungnir-vs-bifrost


----------



## Maxvla

My take on LCD-2 and HD800


----------



## playitloud

Quote: 





jiminy said:


> Am I missing something? why are Canadians buying from Germany instead of USA.
> Colourware charges $1500
> Meier audio charges nearer $1576 and I'm assuming you have to pay some sort of tax either way.
> 
> By the way those matt black 800's make my wallet grown.


 
  That is something I also do not understand. If I would live in the US, I would always order the Sennheiser HD800 from Colorware. You can customize your HD800 without having to pay extra. How good is that.... (mine would also be all matt black, but with a matt blue cobalt ring). However, it is possible to buy a HD800 in Europe for about 850 dollar excl. VAT, transport and import.


----------



## Girls Generation

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> My take on LCD-2 and HD800


 
  Great read Max. Definitely going to get an HD800 to see once and for all what I will keep.


----------



## brokenthumb

I'm listening to the Labyrinth Soundtrack from 1986 and according to Foobar this is my 47th time.  The HD800 makes it feel like the first time.  There is so many details I never knew were there.  For example, I just finished the song _Magic Dance _and there is a goblin asleep and snoring back in the soundstage.  Every song I'm discovering something new!  The layering is fantastic on these.
  Also the leading-edge is so defined yet the sound is very smooth.  The more I listen the more impressed I become.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





brokenthumb said:


> I'm listening to the Labyrinth Soundtrack from 1986 and according to Foobar this is my 47th time.  The HD800 makes it feel like the first time.  There is so many details I never knew were there.  For example, I just finished the song _Magic Dance _and there is a goblin asleep and snoring back in the soundstage.  Every song I'm discovering something new!  The layering is fantastic on these.
> Also the leading-edge is so defined yet the sound is very smooth.  The more I listen the more impressed I become.


 
  Great movie! I have not tried the soundtrack...Looks like a trip to iTunes is in store!


----------



## brokenthumb

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Great movie! I have not tried the soundtrack...Looks like a trip to iTunes is in store!


 
   
  Don't know how the iTunes version is on dynamic range but the cd rip I have is a average of 13.  It's a great listen.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

I was impressed recently by anything from Atrium Carceri, very good on the hd800  (dark ambient).
  Lot of layered details, subtle dark harmony.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





solude said:


> No.  Just no.  The EU price jumped last week but my three HD800s prior to that were $1105.


 

 It's like $200 more now. Any reason for price change?


----------



## Solude

Senn is rising prices because of material costs.  I'd expect the same in the NA market sooner than later.


----------



## brokenthumb

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I was impressed recently by anything from Atrium Carceri, very good on the hd800  (dark ambient).
> Lot of layered details, subtle dark harmony.


 
   
  Sounds interesting, will need to try this out.  Also love the cover art of those albums.
   
   
  I'm listening to this at the moment.  Half way through the album and I've already had many hair-raising moments.  Sounds incredible on the HD800.


----------



## Spakka

Quote: 





solude said:


> Senn is rising prices because of material costs.  I'd expect the same in the NA market sooner than later.


 
  Or if you're more cynical...
   
  They're raising prices because the HD800 is so popular at the moment (from what my dealer said they are the best selling headphone at the moment, and sold out in Europe for a bit).


----------



## Solude

I think selling out had to do with people getting word that today it's $1105 tomorrow $1320   Mine shipped same day which would be difficult if it was sold out.


----------



## paradoxper

I just ordered my pair from Jan over the weekend. Doesn't seem to be sold out quite yet.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I just ordered my pair from Jan over the weekend. Doesn't seem to be sold out quite yet.


 
   
  Did he have your pair in stock already? Because it really is true that HD800 is going more expensive and less available, in Europe at least... Glad I purchased cheap (1250USD) at the right time.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Did he have your pair in stock already? Because it really is true that HD800 is going more expensive and less available, in Europe at least... Glad I purchased cheap (1250USD) at the right time.


 
  As soon as I put in my reservation he informed me they were in stock. I even took an extra day fussing around with possible different shipping options,
  so perhaps Jan has the most stock of any distributor, or maybe I got the last pair.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> As soon as I put in my reservation he informed me they were in stock. I even took an extra day fussing around with possible different shipping options,
> so perhaps Jan has the most stock of any distributor, or maybe I got the last pair.


 
   
  Pairs in stock are still cheap but from what I've checked so far, some sellers refuse to offer HD800 from now and others significantly increased the price (if they had to re-stock)... I think it really was a good timing for you, us!


----------



## extrabigmehdi

I  bought my hd800 in Morocco, at the biggest store of africa "Morocco Mall", for roughly 1400$.
  Just below there was the denon d5000, at roughly 1200$ , and although I was tempted to buy
  a cheaper option than the hd800, it was clear that it was outrageously priced, so I  thought, let's just take the hd800.
  I wouldn't be surprised if I would be the only buyer of the hd800 there, most people seemed interested by imitations of the beats sold at the "black market" (25% of price), or by the bose brand.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I  bought my hd800 in Morocco, at the biggest store of africa "Morocco Mall", for roughly 1400$.
> Just below there was the denon d5000, at roughly 1200$ , and although I was tempted to buy
> a cheaper option than the hd800, it was clear that it was outrageously priced, so I  thought, let's just take the hd800.
> I wouldn't be surprised if I would be the only buyer of the hd800 there, most people seemed interested by imitations of the beats sold at the "black market" (25% of price), or by the bose brand.


 
   
  D5000 for 1200USD?!! Oh my, even 500USD for D7000 is too much!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Pairs in stock are still cheap but from what I've checked so far, some sellers refuse to offer HD800 from now and others significantly increased the price (if they had to re-stock)... I think it really was a good timing for you, us!


 
  What I don't undersand is why would pairs in stock be cheaper than if you had to restock?
   
  It seems to me Jan just adjust prices according to the market while on the fly.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> What I don't undersand is why would pairs in stock be cheaper than if you had to restock?
> 
> It seems to me Jan just adjust prices according to the market while on the fly.


 
   
  Yes, he could... But some sellers are "more honest" (or just prefer to sell more in quantity for a bit lower) and therefore do not raise prices unless they really have to ( = run out of HD800s distributed for old prices).


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Yes, he could... But some sellers are "more honest" (or just prefer to sell more in quantity for a bit lower) and therefore do not raise prices unless they really have to ( = run out of HD800s distributed for old prices).


 
  If you could elaborate on the "some sellers are more honest'", I'd greatly appreciate it.
   
  Also, why would newer HD800 stock cost you more than older? I'm stil a bit confused to that.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> If you could elaborate on the "some sellers are more honest'", I'd greatly appreciate it.
> 
> Also, why would newer HD800 stock cost you more than older? I'm stil a bit confused to that.


 
   
  I would like to... But what's so strange about it? (no offense)
   
  Maybe it's different in New Mexico but in Europe, it's normal that you have to re-stock after you (as a seller) simply sell the whole batch you ordered from distributor before. Sennheiser has decided to raise HD800 price because of the huge sales success recently (this is official, I have this information from one of the local certified sellers). And therefore sellers have to react - some raise prices immediately but the majority just wait until they sell the whole "old" batch... There is a competition on the market etc. so you want to sell for the cheapest price possible in order to be prefered by customers, you know?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rusta said:


> I would like to... But what's so strange about it? (no offense)
> 
> Maybe it's different in New Mexico but in Europe, it's normal that you have to re-stock after you (as a seller) simply sell the whole batch you ordered from distributor before. Sennheiser has decided to raise HD800 price because of the huge sales success recently (this is official, I have this information from one of the local certified sellers). And therefore sellers have to react - some raise prices immediately but the majority just wait until they sell the whole "old" batch... There is a competition on the market etc. so you want to sell for the cheapest price possible in order to be prefered by customers, you know?


 
  What's strange about that? Well, to me you're implying an HD800 distributor is less honest..somewhere along the line. Just curious.
   
  Perhaps when you put it in that context. I was thinking more along the lines as a distributor you never really necessarily run out of stock.
  Specifically I was thinking you'd have both 'old' and 'new' stock at the same time. Therefore, what would justify
  raising the costs of one but not the other, for example.
   
  And no, I don't know, sorry. All U.S. distributors seem to have the same exact pricing, where as, across the sea,
  pricing seems more freely set.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> What's strange about that? Well, to me you're implying an HD800 distributor is less honest..somewhere along the line. Just curious.
> 
> Perhaps when you put it in that context. I was thinking more along the lines as a distributor you never really necessarily run out of stock.
> Specifically I was thinking you'd have both 'old' and 'new' stock at the same time. Therefore, what would justify
> ...


 
   
  Aah, I finally see your point!
   
  I don't know the situation precisely to be honest... All I know is that there should be one official distributing "source" for several countries in Europe, if not for the whole Europe (maybe less likely). In my opinion, if Sennheiser says "we raise the price of HD800", this (or these) immediately start to distribute for the higher price. However, *local sellers themselves* do not have to react to this increase immediately because of several reasons mentioned before.
   
  And good point btw - prices in Europe are really different, especially right now... something like from 1250 - 1600USD approximately.
   
Of course, correct me if I am wrong...


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Aah, I finally see your point!
> 
> I don't know the situation precisely to be honest... All I know is that there should be one official distributing "source" for several countries in Europe, if not for the whole Europe (maybe less likely). In my opinion, if Sennheiser says "we raise the price of HD800", this (or these) immediately start to distribute for the higher price. However, *local sellers themselves* do not have to react to this increase immediately because of several reasons mentioned before.
> 
> ...


 
  We were just looking at it from different perspectives. 
  I also find it very curious that there never seems to be any deals on the HD800 in the states. I don't have a clue
  as to why prices are so firm here and more loose in Europe.
   
  Maybe it's a bit of Apples to Oranges.


----------



## Pudu

Quick question. I had a pair of pc360 and absolutely hated the comfort. You can adjust the length, but not the curvature of it - the first 10 minutes felt fine and then the clamping would set in... 

Does the HD800 uses a similar approach? That would be a deal breaker for me.

Thanks for any help.


----------



## longbowbbs

The HD800's are light and very comfortable. Better even than my 650's....


----------



## RustA

HD800 are possibly the most comfortable high-end headphone from all... Superlight and almost zero clamping force.


----------



## Leslie Dorner

I'm thinking about getting these from HeadRoom or Meier Audio for a reduced price. I had the HD-600 and HD-650 along with the HD-580 years ago, but I sold them over the years. My understanding is the HD-800 is a cut above all of those previous top of the line models from years ago. I know the Sennheiser house sound. But, I was wondering if it's worth getting them. Do I really need an aftermarket cable because they're quite expensive for an already expensive pair of headphones. I'm debating whether I need these at all, but I have a top of the line audio rig at home. Right now, I don't have any top of the line full sized headphones. So, maybe it will be worth it for me. I could get them in the next 3 months sometime in late June this year. Whether I do get them or not, we'll see. I listen to a lot of classical and opera music, but I do listen to Spotify with pop, rock, blues, jazz, and electronic dance music.
   
  I'm also thinking about the Grado PS-1000 at this level, but I'm not sure if they're as neutral or accurate as the HD-800. I don't know if the PS-1000 would be a suitable alternative so I'd like to know the differences from people that own both of them.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





leslie dorner said:


> I'm thinking about getting these from HeadRoom or Meier Audio for a reduced price. I had the HD-600 and HD-650 along with the HD-580 years ago, but I sold them over the years. My understanding is the HD-800 is a cut above all of those previous top of the line models from years ago. I know the Sennheiser house sound. But, I was wondering if it's worth getting them. Do I really need an *aftermarket cable* because they're quite expensive for an already expensive pair of headphones. I'm debating whether I need these at all, but I have a top of the line audio rig at home. Right now, I don't have any top of the line full sized headphones. So, maybe it will be worth it for me. I could get them in the next 3 months sometime in late June this year. Whether I do get them or not, we'll see. I listen to a lot of classical and opera music, but I do listen to Spotify with pop, rock, blues, jazz, and electronic dance music.
> 
> I'm also thinking about the Grado PS-1000 at this level, but I'm not sure if they're as neutral or accurate as the HD-800. I don't know if the PS-1000 would be a suitable alternative so I'd like to know the differences from people that own both of them.


 
  No, cable is needed. Doesn't make ANY difference. Not sure if the HD800 would fit your tastes though, I know that they are amazing for classical.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





leslie dorner said:


> I'm thinking about getting these from HeadRoom or Meier Audio for a reduced price. I had the HD-600 and HD-650 along with the HD-580 years ago, but I sold them over the years. My understanding is the HD-800 is a cut above all of those previous top of the line models from years ago. I know the Sennheiser house sound. But, I was wondering if it's worth getting them. Do I really need an aftermarket cable because they're quite expensive for an already expensive pair of headphones. I'm debating whether I need these at all, but I have a top of the line audio rig at home. Right now, I don't have any top of the line full sized headphones. So, maybe it will be worth it for me. I could get them in the next 3 months sometime in late June this year. Whether I do get them or not, we'll see. I listen to a lot of classical and opera music, but I do listen to Spotify with pop, rock, blues, jazz, and electronic dance music.
> 
> I'm also thinking about the Grado PS-1000 at this level, but I'm not sure if they're as neutral or accurate as the HD-800. I don't know if the PS-1000 would be a suitable alternative so I'd like to know the differences from people that own both of them.


 
   
  Almost nothing is as neutral and accurate as HD800... It's the best measuring dynamic headphone available today. Huge soundstage, the most precise imaging ever, clear instruments separation and DETAIL.
   
  That said, HD800 sound very different from HD650, for example...
   
  I don't think you have to upgrade your cable since the stock one is REALLY GOOD and it is the only cable available on the market that will work with HD800 completely in the way Sennheiser intended. You should rather focus on pairing the phones with a suitable amplifier in order to get the tonal balance that will suite you tastes.


----------



## Leslie Dorner

I'm trying to get something that is fairly close to my Etymotic ER-4PT with the 4S adapter cable, but in a full sized open design headphone.
   
   
 Here's my home audio rig:
  
 Meridian 808v5 CD player
 HeadRoom Ultra desktop amp with DAC and desktop power supply
 Ultimate Ears Ue-18 pro
 Etymotic ER-4PT with 4S adapter
 Monster Signature Series Pro Power 5100 Power Center UHC
 Cardas Clear power, RCA interconnects, USB cabling
 LaCie 4Big Quadra 10 TB USB 3.0 external HDD
 Western Digital My Passport 2 TB USB 3.0 Portable external HDD
 System76 Leopard Extreme desktop PC
 System76 Lemur Ultra Thin notebook PC
 Verizon FiOS Quantum
 ASUS Blu-Ray USB 3.0 12X external CD/DVD/Blu-Ray burner
 CrashPlan+ family plan for 3 years
  
 yes, it's true.
  
  
  I have a System76 Leopard Extreme:
   
  2nd Generation Intel Core i7-3970X Extreme Edition 3.50 GHz L2 15 MB - 6 Cores with Hyperthreading
64 GB - 8 x 8 GB - Crucial Elite Quad Channel DDR3 - 1333 MHz
  4 GB nVidia GeForce GTX 690 with 3072 CUDA Cores
  960 GB: LSI Hardware RAID 0 - 2 x 480 GB Intel 520 Series SATA III 6 Gb/s Solid State Disk Drive
CD-RW / DVD-RW Dual Layer [two of them]
  Internal SD, Memory Stick, Compact Flash Card Reader
   Internal PCI Express 802.11 bgn
  27" Full HD SuperThin Widescreen LED Display (1920 x 1080)
  Logitech Wireless Illuminated Keyboard and Performance Mouse
  3 Yr. Ltd. Warranty and 3 Yr. Technical Support
  Asus 12X Blu-Ray USB 3.0 burner
  LaCie 4Big Quad 10 TB USB 3.0 HDD
  Western Digital My Passport 2 TB USB 3.0 Portable HDD
   
  System76 Lemur Ultra Thin (lemu4):
   
  Intel Core i5-3210M
  Corsair Vengeance 2 X 8 [16 GB] 1,600 MHz RAM
  Crucial M4 SATA-III 6 GB/s 128 GB SSD
  Intel Advanced-N 6230 802.11 BGN
  14.1" 1366 X 768 LED
  Gigabit Ethernet
  2 USB 3.0
  1 USB 2.0
  SDXC memory card slot
  8X DVD burner
  4.5 pounds
   
  I have 14,723 320 Kbps MP3s using Fraunhofer and LAME 3.9.9 --preset-insane 320 Kbps bit rate songs.
   
  I also have about 30 gigabytes of 24 bit 192 kHz FLAC files from HD Tracks and Chesky Records.
   
  I know that the HD-800 is accurate and I think that it will fit with my audio system as it is quite accurate and neutral. I also have an older Ray Samuels Audio Emmeline HR-2 and Ray Samuels told me that I don't need an aftermarket cable and he said the HR-2 would be a good match with the HD-800. He has two HD-800s in unbalanced and balanced setups. I would be pairing my HD-800s with the HeadRoom Ultra Desk Amp with DAC and Desktop Power Supply.
   
  I'm thinking the HD-800 would be a good fit in my audio rig. But, I don't know for sure. What do you think?


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I just ordered my pair from Jan over the weekend. Doesn't seem to be sold out quite yet.


 

 What price did you get, I was quoted $1320 shipped?


----------



## Leslie Dorner

Jan quoted the same price for me too. I'm hoping that HeadRoom will do a price match or they will beat the price by $20. I'll contact HeadRoom tomorrow to see if they will do it or not.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Leslie Dorner* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I know that the HD-800 is accurate and I think that it will fit with my audio system as it is quite accurate and neutral.
> 
> I'm thinking the HD-800 would be a good fit in my audio rig. But, I don't know for sure. What do you think?


 
   
  Nope, afraid synergy with GeForce GTX 690 is not that good and illuminated keyboard totally kills the mids.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> What price did you get, I was quoted $1320 shipped?


 
  Oh, ya know, $999.
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
Or
   
$1320 shipped.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





leslie dorner said:


> Jan quoted the same price for me too. I'm hoping that HeadRoom will do a price match or they will beat the price by $20. I'll contact HeadRoom tomorrow to see if they will do it or not.


 

 I just went Crutchfield refurbished route, $1100 shipped hard to beat, based on the reports people getting new phones with mostly less than perfect boxes, we'll see, they accept returns and give 2 years Senns warranty.


----------



## Leslie Dorner

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> Nope, afraid synergy with GeForce GTX 690 is not that good and illuminated keyboard totally kills the mids.


 
  That's funny. At these price levels, it's hilarious.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





wolfetan44 said:


> No, cable is needed. Doesn't make ANY difference.


 
   
  I might agree if Senn hadn't made the cable heavy and stiff for no reason.  The actual 'cable' is tiny.  This is the cross section of it.


----------



## Girls Generation

Uhh..... ?
  Quote: 





leslie dorner said:


> I'm trying to get something that is fairly close to my Etymotic ER-4PT with the 4S adapter cable, but in a full sized open design headphone.
> 
> 
> Here's my home audio rig:
> ...


----------



## Leslie Dorner

What does the factory refurbished really mean? Were they damaged in some way and reconditioned?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





leslie dorner said:


> What does the factory refurbished really mean? Were they damaged in some way and reconditioned?


 
Link


----------



## Leslie Dorner

Thanks.
   
  It looks like it's a good deal. I might get them from Crutchfield for the factory refurbished HD-800s. However, I'm not sure at this point. I might get a new pair instead.


----------



## Girls Generation

Says 2 year warranty but Senn offers 90 days for refurbished items. Hmm...


----------



## Leslie Dorner

Really? I did not know that. Can you show me your source for your information?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





leslie dorner said:


> Really? I did not know that. Can you show me your source for your information?


 
Link


----------



## Leslie Dorner

So, why does Crutchfield list a 2 year warranty when Sennheiser lists a 90 day warranty for refurbished products? Which is it?


----------



## Girls Generation

Don't ask us....
  Quote: 





leslie dorner said:


> So, why does Crutchfield list a 2 year warranty when Sennheiser lists a 90 day warranty for refurbished products? Which is it?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





leslie dorner said:


> So, why does Crutchfield list a 2 year warranty when Sennheiser lists a 90 day warranty for refurbished products? Which is it?


 
  I'm not sure if you glossed over that link.
  Sennheiser:
Refurbished Products: Carry the standard warranty**


----------



## Leslie Dorner

Thanks. I did gloss over that USA warranty. So, I do get the full 2 year warranty for a refurbished HD-800, right?
   
  I think that I'll contact Crutchfield tomorrow for more information. I should be able to get them by the end of next month.


----------



## Girls Generation

** Remanufactured product warranties are only valid when purchased from an authorized Sennheiser reseller. *Excludes* any remanufactured *Headphone*, TeleCom Headset, or Bluetooth® product, *which carry a 90-day warranty*. Out of warranty TeleCom headset replacements have a 1 year warranty.

   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I'm not sure if you glossed over that link.
> Sennheiser:
> Refurbished Products: Carry the standard warranty**


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





leslie dorner said:


> So, why does Crutchfield list a 2 year warranty when Sennheiser lists a 90 day warranty for refurbished products? Which is it?


 
  Best to check with Crutchfield maybe its really new product LOL I would think if they listing 2yr its probably two years but I would check. Crutchfield is a stellar mail order company and has a 60 day no questions asked return policy. Unheard of. I bought my Oppo BDP95 from them.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> ** Remanufactured product warranties are only valid when purchased from an authorized Sennheiser reseller. *Excludes* any remanufactured *Headphone*, TeleCom Headset, or Bluetooth® product, *which carry a 90-day warranty*. Out of warranty TeleCom headset replacements have a 1 year warranty.


 
  So you get a 90 day standard warranty from Sennheiser, but a 2 year warranty from
  Crutchdfield. That's bright!...


----------



## Girls Generation

That might be it. I guess if your refurbished pair breaks, they send you a new refurbished pair. 
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> So you get a 90 day standard warranty from Sennheiser, but a 2 year warranty from
> Crutchdfield. That's bright!...


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> That might be it. I guess if your refurbished pair breaks, they send you a new refurbished pair.


 
  Haha!!! So essentially, it's a Sennheiser warranty- minus them fixing your broken pair. They just completely replace it....
   
  Unless Crutchfield deploys their own maintenance team.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> So you get a 90 day standard warranty from Sennheiser, but a 2 year warranty from
> Crutchdfield. That's bright!...


 
   
  Quote: 





girls generation said:


> That might be it. I guess if your refurbished pair breaks, they send you a new refurbished pair.


 

 People, stop making stuff up.
   
  My chat with Crutchfield agent
   
  Quote: 





> Paul.: Welcome to Crutchfield Online Chat. How may I help today with your product selections and purchases?
> 
> Andrew : Hi Paul.
> 
> ...


----------



## paradoxper

So it's either Pauls word of Sennheiser's documented policy..


----------



## Girls Generation

That's not enough information to really prove that it's actually 2 years warranty from Sennheiser, I hope you realize. We need a why and a how are they an exception since Senn clearly states it's 90 days for refurbished. For all we know, the agent can be just spouting out information on the site.
  Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> People, stop making stuff up.
> 
> My chat with Crutchfield agent


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> That's not enough information to really prove that it's actually 2 years warranty from Sennheiser, I hope you realize. We need a why and a how are they an exception since Senn clearly states it's 90 days for refurbished. For all we know, the agent can be just spouting out information on the site.


 

 Agent's answer was okay for me, feel free to contact them if you need more information, they have live chat.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  +1...I have both. The HD800 is the best I have heard (No Stax near me...probably a good thing!) However, I still love my HD650's. Just something about them that makes you happy to listen for hours. The stock cables are just fine. I upgraded the HD650's to get the most I could from them before I sprung for the HD800. Cables can make a difference, but I would max out your amps or DAC's first.


----------



## Leslie Dorner

I got a top of the line CD player and DAC and headphone amplifier right now. I don't have a top of the line full sized open headphone now.
   
  How does the HD-800 compare to the PS-1000? Which is more accurate and neutral?
   
  I have to think about either one pretty hard before I make a decision. I don't live near an audio dealer so I can audition them before getting either one.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





leslie dorner said:


> How does the HD-800 compare to the PS-1000? Which is more accurate and neutral?


 
   
  This isn't even close.  Grado hasn't been in the conversation now for an easy 5+ years.  Get the HD800 if that's your entire short list.


----------



## brokenthumb

Hey guys I bought my HD800 from Crutchfield last week for $1100 and when I registered for my frequency graph I was sent an email from Sennheiser stating that I would have 2 years warranty from the day I purchased it.  So the warranty is indeed two years from Sennheiser themselves.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> That's not enough information to really prove that it's actually 2 years warranty from Sennheiser, I hope you realize. We need a why and a how are they an exception since Senn clearly states it's 90 days for refurbished. For all we know, the agent can be just spouting out information on the site.


 
  Then you can order from headroom pay the 1500.00 and you can have your piece of mind. i believe Crutchfield but for the extra 400.00 get piece of mind


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





leslie dorner said:


> I got a top of the line CD player and DAC and headphone amplifier right now. I don't have a top of the line full sized open headphone now.
> 
> How does the HD-800 compare to the PS-1000? Which is more accurate and neutral?
> 
> I have to think about either one pretty hard before I make a decision. I don't live near an audio dealer so I can audition them before getting either one.


 
   
  Quote: 





solude said:


> This isn't even close.  Grado hasn't been in the conversation now for an easy 5+ years.  Get the HD800 if that's your entire short list.


 
  Exactly...I wouldn't consider any current production Grado as "accurate" or "neutral". Pretty far from it. Actually my favourite current production Grado is the RS-1i and closely followed by the PS500. That said, in terms of accuracy and neutrality, the HD800s are much better than the PS1000s.


----------



## Girls Generation

The fact that there is a conflict between the manufacturer's policy and what is stated on the website, it's only logical to doubt. I'm a very thorough person and I don't go around trusting whatever stores say, without secondary confirmation, because everyone makes mistakes.
   
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> Then you can order from headroom pay the 1500.00 and you can have your piece of mind. i believe Crutchfield but for the extra 400.00 get piece of mind


----------



## Girls Generation

Thank you for the confirmation. Looks like Crutchfield holds an exception with Sennheiser. What's your S/N?
  Quote: 





brokenthumb said:


> Hey guys I bought my HD800 from Crutchfield last week for $1100 and when I registered for my frequency graph I was sent an email from Sennheiser stating that I would have 2 years warranty from the day I purchased it.  So the warranty is indeed two years from Sennheiser themselves.


----------



## brokenthumb

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Thank you for the confirmation. Looks like Crutchfield holds an exception with Sennheiser. What's your S/N?


 
   
  Mine are S/N 153XX


----------



## Leslie Dorner

Are the HD-800's all about "wow" factor or are do they let the music shine through and speak for itself? I want a full sized open design headphone that will continue to satisfy me not because they're fun to listen to, but because they let the music flow through with the fewest sonic coloration possible. I want the music to shine through with the highest degree of accuracy and transparency.
   
  I'm thinking there's no other than the HD-800's in this regard.
   
  I am seriously thinking about getting them in about two more months.
   
  Are you still satisfied long term with yours?
   
  Would you recommend them to me?
   
  What makes them less than perfect?


----------



## kazsud

Quote: 





solude said:


> This isn't even close.  Grado hasn't been in the conversation now for an easy 5+ years.  Get the HD800 if that's your entire short list.


 
   
   
  Where can I see a HD800 vs. HE-500 frequency response?


----------



## Maxvla

leslie dorner said:


> Are the HD-800's all about "wow" factor or are do they let the music shine through and speak for itself? I want a full sized open design headphone that will continue to satisfy me not because they're fun to listen to, but because they let the music flow through with the fewest sonic coloration possible. I want the music to shine through with the highest degree of accuracy and transparency.
> 
> I'm thinking there's no other than the HD-800's in this regard.
> 
> ...



Not wow factor at all. Perhaps at first the extreme resolution will shock you coming from other headphones, but it gives way to understanding this is how it should sound anyway. As far as free from coloration, I think only the SR-009 can make any reasonable claim for that. The HD800 is certainly one of the best but not entirely perfect.

I've had mine for almost a year and am planning on basing everything I do for the next few years with them as my primary cans.

They sound like they suit your needs perfectly, unless you have $10k to dump into SR-009 and high end stat amp to go along with whatever high end source you may need to get.

Less than perfect - mids could use some smoothing and body. Treble can sound harsh when it's extremely busy up there. Otherwise, perfect for me. Here's my review with the LCD-2 and HD800: http://www.head-fi.org/t/652394/my-take-on-lcd-2-and-hd800



kazsud said:


> Where can I see a HD800 vs. HE-500 frequency response?



http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-data-sheet-downloads


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> Where can I see a HD800 vs. HE-500 frequency response?


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





leslie dorner said:


> Are the HD-800's all about "wow" factor


 
  They don't have a "wow" factor to me.
  What could impress:
  - the clean sound
  - the big and natural  soundstage
  - the quite realistic mid bass (just listen  to a gong, or similar it's almost as if it's physically present).
  - the pleasing mids (you wanna hear more voices).
   
  I  wish they were more "aggressive" , when it's the character of the music, but  perhaps the laid back soundstage doesn't suit every genres.
  They are not for "bass heads" either (I  won't imagine someone  bobbing their head with them).


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Treble can sound harsh when it's extremely busy up there.


 
  Overly smooth to me. Eh, coming from the srh940...


----------



## Maxvla

extrabigmehdi said:


> Overly smooth to me. Eh, coming from the srh940...



You don't what to know what I think of the 940 :evil:


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Anybody who owned or still own W5000 and *like their signature* what was the most noticeable when switching to HD800, details, soundstage, more natural timbre, something else?


----------



## Pudu

rusta said:


> HD800 are possibly the most comfortable high-end headphone from all... Superlight and almost zero clamping force.






longbowbbs said:


> The HD800's are light and very comfortable. Better even than my 650's....




Thanks lads. Thus far, these things haven't interested me much since I'm not really a fan of Senn and I think they are butt ugly - but finding my curiosity starting to get the better of me somewhat (damn  ) ...


----------



## Leslie Dorner

How does the HD-800 compare to the Etymotic ER-4S in terms of accuracy and neutrality? If you have both, then I'd appreciate a comparison. I know these are different products, but I'm looking for something that is very close, but with a much bigger sound stage and wider dynamic range without compromising accuracy. In other words, I realize the purpose of the HD-800s, but I want to know if they can be used as full sized open headphones for recording engineers, producers, mixers, and audio engineers. I just don't see the HD-800s used widely in recording studios because of their size and cost. These are more for audiophiles with deep pockets like myself. I'm looking for dynamic drivers that can be used in unbalanced mode to listen to live and pre-recorded music to spot recording problems.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote:  





> I'm looking for dynamic drivers that can be used in unbalanced mode to listen to live and pre-recorded music to spot recording problems.


 
  From what I've understood , the hd800 are not very used by "audio engineers", and it's not just a matter of cost.
  The hd600/hd650 are more popular for music production, although they tend to to be forgiving on flaws.
  I remind someone using the hd600 to remove noise hiss, and then after using speakers, realizing that the noise was still there. My srh940 does the opposite, it makes noise related flaws more obvious .
   
  A the tombraiderforums, there's a "remastered" version of the tomb raider soundtrack, and I  know the hd800 was used to do the remastering .
   
  EDIT: "professionals" discussing what could be the best headphone (for monitoring/mixing/mastering/producing electronic music)
   
  http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=242636&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=hd800&start=0
   
  I guess I could find similar thread at gearslutz. I know steve hoffman like the hd600.


----------



## BournePerfect

I thought the HD800s were ugly too-until I bought them. IMO, pics can't do them justice as far as their build quality and totl materials used. Much, much better and luxurious almost in person. I also couldn't stand them til I heard them from my ZDSE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  -Daniel


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I thought the HD800s were ugly too-until I bought them. IMO, pics can't do them justice as far as their build quality and totl materials used.
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  Agreed 1000%... LCD-2 actually look and feel so _small_ next to them.


----------



## Leslie Dorner

I just purchased the AKG K 702 from HeadRoom. They should be delivered this Wednesday or Friday at the latest. My understanding is that the K 702 competes with the HD-800 except in terms of resolution and sound stage dimensions. I still don't know if I'll get the HD-800s, but I'll put it off until Christmas.


----------



## juantendo8

Quote: 





leslie dorner said:


> I just purchased the AKG K 702 from HeadRoom. They should be delivered this Wednesday or Friday at the latest. My understanding is that the K 702 competes with the HD-800 except in terms of resolution and sound stage dimensions. I still don't know if I'll get the HD-800s, but I'll put it off until Christmas.


 
   
  I don't think it really competes, but it is a pretty nice headphone regardless with a similarly bright tuning. I would call it a good value. You probably have to step up to electrostatics and high-end orthos (HE-6) before you can consider competing from a performance perspective. I have never heard another dynamic do even close to what the HD800 can do.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





leslie dorner said:


> My understanding is that the K 702 competes with the HD-800 except in terms of resolution and sound stage dimensions.


 
   
  The AKG competed with the HD600/650, it does not play in the same waters as the HD800.  Headphones that do are the HE-6, LCD-3 and SR-007/009.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





leslie dorner said:


> I just purchased the AKG K 702 from HeadRoom. They should be delivered this Wednesday or Friday at the latest. My understanding is that the K 702 competes with the HD-800 except in terms of resolution and sound stage dimensions. I still don't know if I'll get the HD-800s, but I'll put it off until Christmas.


 
   
  Did you get the AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition?


----------



## Leslie Dorner

I got the regular AKG K 702.


----------



## CDewey

Currently burning in my brand new pair with some Tool . I've waited a long time to join the club. Loving them so far!


----------



## s4s4s4

I just don't get the bright comments. The HD800's are music to my ears. Friggin love them. Love the LCD-2 as well, very different animal. think I need to own both. Have only listened to them with the BHA-1.
   
  Have also tried PS1000's and HE-500, both obviously great headphones but no match for the other two.
   
  Have Bryston modifying a pair of HD800's so I can try them with the BHA's balanced output. Looking forward to that.


----------



## third_eye

Quote: 





cdewey said:


> Currently burning in my brand new pair with some Tool
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Congrats. Tool + HD800 = Eargasm


----------



## Girls Generation

Everyone has different hearing...
   
  I could say "I just don't get why anyone would get AKG K702 because it sounds like trash," but then everyone hears differently, and many Head-Fiers would start hating on me as well, and I might have to go cry to my mommie because some online jerks are being meanies.
   
  Quote: 





s4s4s4 said:


> I just don't get the bright comments.


----------



## wolfetan44

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Everyone has different hearing...
> 
> I could say "I just don't get why anyone would get AKG K702 because it sounds like trash," but then everyone hears differently, and many Head-Fiers would start hating on me as well, and I might have to go cry to* my mommie because some online jerks are being meanies.*
> 
> ...


 
  I love when people use this language online. Seriously, it always makes me laugh Thanks.


----------



## nigeljames

I received my new HD800's about 2 weeks ago (S/N: 19922) fully expecting to send them back for a refund because my main music genre's are rock and metal. However they are going nowhere.
   
  I have no idea if the theory of a newer improved HD800's are true or not but what I am hearing is pretty special.
   
  Bass is superb, very deep, fast, tight and with plenty of impact. It might not go quite as deep or be as full bodied as the LCD2.2's bass but does not have the sense of congestion that the LCD's can have in the bass department. PRaT is excelent and very 'foot tapping'.
   
  Mid-range is quite forward with great clarity and vocals are quite close and intimate, which I love, and instruments can also have great presence and are very vivid. Vocal also have stunning clarity and realism. The mid-range is not thin or unnatural in any way.
   
  The hf's seem very extended but also clean and lively, adding a lot of excitement to recordings. Lead guitar solo's are stunning. Soaring with clarity, precision and speed.
   
  A lot has been said of the HD800's sound staging, much to the detriment of rock/metal/pop music, however I find the sound stage to be just right. Recordings are not subjected to artificial sound stage enlargement just very accurate and real positioning and layering.
   
  The only downside I have at the moment is that sibilance can be an issue on recordings that I know are prone to it, maybe more burn in and a cable upgrade in the future will improve that but it's not a major issue.
   
  I would like to state that at the moment the HD800's are being used single ended out of my balanced amp which is not ideal. I will upgrade to a better, never been a fan of silver plated copper, balanced cable in the near future when I expect the HD800's to take another lead forward.
   
  So in short I find the HD800 far better than expected and many of the reviews are totally of the mark. The HD800's are not just an exceptional headphone but also an exceptional rock/metal phone, assuming the source/amp are up to the job.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> I received my new HD800's about 2 weeks ago (S/N: 19922) fully expecting to send them back for a refund because my main music genre's are rock and metal. However they are going nowhere.
> 
> I have no idea if the theory of a newer improved HD800's are true or not but what I am hearing is pretty special.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
  I'm assuming your using the Master 6?  If this is the case being as both the Master 6 and the HD800 are very revealing - if the sibilance is in the recording the amp and headphones are doing their job.  Both will give you whats on the recording.  Maybe try using a pure copper cable.


----------



## Frank I

> he only downside I have at the moment is that sibilance can be an issue on recordings that I know are prone to it,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Well, finally, I don't find the hd800 too bright.
  I was trying first to tame the treble by large amount 6db, then 3 db , then only 1.5 db,
  but it was just too much, often making the sound less interesting.
   
  So here is (hopefully) my last eq , I  tame by less than 0.8 db:
   

   
  0.8 db  might seem an insignificant amount, but I  just find the treble is a bit more forward than remaining frequency range,
  which I  find this a bit distracting, while listening especially to ambient stuff.


----------



## myc

Agree.. I must say that the bass is very very clean.. happy toe-tapping


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> So here is (hopefully) my last eq , I  tame by less than 0.8 db:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Try to reel that in to just the treble shelf area around 6-8KHz and something closer to -3dB.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





solude said:


> Try to reel that in to just the treble shelf area around 6-8KHz and something closer to -3dB.


 
  Well, that's how I  hear it : a slight treble emphasis , but wide in bandwidth.
  I've already tried what you've suggesting, being inspired by the changes in frequency response you get from annax mod, but it doesn't always sound better to me (although not bad).
   
  Anyways, I wanted to "fix  the imaging",  somehow it was as if the sound came in front of my head , and I prefer that it comes a bit from the back.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I'm assuming your using the Master 6?  If this is the case being as both the Master 6 and the HD800 are very revealing - if the sibilance is in the recording the amp and headphones are doing their job.  Both will give you whats on the recording.  Maybe try using a pure copper cable.


 
   
  Thanks Frank I & preproman, yes I am using my Master-6. The issue with the sibilance is as already stated only on disks that are known for it so it's an unfortunate side effect of extreme resolution not a fault as such with the H800's however it is slightly worse on the HD800's than the T1's or HE6's and,  much more obvious than with the LCD2.2's but no surprise there!
   
  As regards the cable upgrade, generally I love silver cables. As I do not find the HD800's bass light or overly bright and my Toxic Silver Poison, soon to be upgraded to Silver Widow, works superbly with my HE6's which are also recommended to be used with copper cables, I would prefer a silver cable. I don't believe good quality silver cables are inherently bright. Toxic cables SPC cables are supposed to sound brighter than their pure silver cables.
  However I am certainly not ruling out a high quality copper cable.
  Any cable upgrade would be to use my amp through its balanced output and for general SQ improvements as I don't require specific SQ fix's.


----------



## oblique63

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> From what I've understood , the hd800 are not very used by "audio engineers", and it's not just a matter of cost.
> The hd600/hd650 are more popular for music production, although they tend to to be forgiving on flaws.
> I remind someone using the hd600 to remove noise hiss, and then after using speakers, realizing that the noise was still there. My srh940 does the opposite, it makes noise related flaws more obvious .
> 
> ...


 
  I think that's largely due to the stigma surrounding headphones for audio production. I originally got into headphones through that 'world' before I joined head-fi, and there is a lot of negativity surrounding headphones for anything other than tracking or mix 'checking'; Just look at one of the first answers from that kvr thread: "Headphones should never be used for mixing, and for that reason i think you really shouldn't go overboard with the most expensive set of cans on the market. I have both a HD650 for reference and a HD25 for tracking, and i wouldn't go any further than that. " (with regards to the HD800).

 I mean, it makes sense in the way that a perfectly treated room with good quality speakers will beat out headphones because of the ability to change your listening spot, get less ear fatigue, have better depth, etc. But a quality set of headphones will still usually be a better bet than less-than-ideal loudspeaker monitoring conditions. Unfortunately, the conventional wisdom about _never_ mixing on headphones from the days before these high quality ~$1000 flagships existed, is still very much around, making most audio people very hesitant to even try, much less spend that kind of money on, a top-tier set of headphones for audio work.

 The newer generation of hobbyist audio producers is gradually changing the tide though, since not only do most lack the luxury of being able to set up a 'proper' studio, but they also probably listen to most of their music through headphones (like most younger people), making them quite familiar with the 'headphone sound' and thus more comfortable/open-minded about experimenting with headphones for audio tasks. Just look at LFF; that guy supposedly _masters_ with his Paradox phones professionally (something that's probably even more frowned upon than simply mixing on headphones). The pro audio world is pretty conservative, and seems to move a lot slower than the consumer audio world, so I'd like to think we're still just in a transition period with regards to headphones.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





oblique63 said:


> the conventional wisdom about _never_ mixing on headphones from the days before these high quality ~$1000 flagships existed


 
  I  don't think it's a problem of sound quality, and that a 1000$ flagship is required to get the best results.
  With speakers, each ears can hear both speakers , which I guess is more natural. Also with speakers the perception of sound vary a bit  while you move your head.
  With headphone , there a complete separation between left and right, and sound doesn't vary when you move your head.
   
  I've seen people at kvr, interested to mix with headphones , but using a crossfeed vst like tb isone.
  I personally never liked much crossfeed.
  Also I've seen some people complaining that headphone "beautify" things, and that with headphone it almost always sound good, and hence it's unreliable for mixing.


----------



## Maxvla

extrabigmehdi said:


> I've seen people at kvr, interested to mix with headphones , but using a crossfeed vst like tb isone.
> I personally never liked much crossfeed.
> Also I've seen some people complaining that headphone "beautify" things, and that with headphone it almost always sound good, and hence it's unreliable for mixing.



They would need tb isone and vst if they don't have HD800s on. Nothing else recreates a proper soundstage like them. I guess K1000 does a good job of it too, but they are far more compromised in other areas. Enough so that they are not useful for professional audio work.


----------



## Girls Generation

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> They would need tb isone and vst if they don't have HD800s on. Nothing else recreates a proper soundstage like them. I guess K1000 does a good job of it too, but they are far more compromised in other areas. Enough so that they are not useful for professional audio work.


 
  Each time I listen to the HD800 I feel the the soundstage is artificial. What are your thoughts about this?


----------



## Maxvla

Your ears are artificial? 

Sorry. Don't know what to tell you. It will be tough to beat the HD800 when it comes to a live sounding stage. I actually prefer it to most speaker setups, too. When I listen to HD800s I always find some sound that comes from a direction I'm not expecting from headphones, then I realize that it is where it really _should_ be. This in combination with other similarly surprising accuracies make the HD800 soundstage more interesting, engaging, and immersive for me.


----------



## Girls Generation

Hmm sometimes it seems like the HD800 is creating soundstage that wasn't meant to be. Sometimes.


----------



## oblique63

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I  don't think it's a problem of sound quality, and that a 1000$ flagship is required to get the best results.


 
  Well, when you're competing against speakers, the HD800 and SR-009 are probably the closest, but yeah they're not necessary. It's more that they make it _easier._ Anybody can learn to mix properly in headphones if they put the effort into it, but it is certainly much more challenging and frustrating that using speakers (I learned this the hard way). So a lot can still be accomplished with just some HD600's; but to fully replace speakers (even just in a hobbyist setup) and not give yourself a headache along the way, that might require some cans that are at least as detailed as the current lineup of flagships. Using headphones in conjunction with loudspeakers will usually yield the best results, and for that, yeah, you don't need anything too fancy; but if your limitations don't let you have a speaker setup for whatever reason, then using 'lesser' headphones might just make things a bit more complicated than they need to be once you're trying to squeeze that last 10% to make your mix sound 'pro'. Now, I don't think it should be the case that the only cans capable of competing with speakers here should be the +$1000 ones, and that's why I ordered myself a set of Paradox phones last week, but I do think it's still too early to tell how producing on cans will work out. So far, the 'EDM' community seems to be the most widely progressive in this regard.
   
  Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I've seen people at kvr, interested to mix with headphones , but using a crossfeed vst like tb isone.


 
  Yep, there's lots of good crossfeeds out there, software and hardware, not to mention crazier stuff like the Realizer. But I think most of that is seen as necessary largely because audio engineers simply tend to be _used to_ loudspeakers more than headphones. I don't think we've quite reached the point in time yet where all the kids that grew up with ipods+earbuds are making too many commercial records, cause I'd wager they would be more likely to be accustomed to headphones more than any other medium of listening to music, thus eventually choosing cans as their primary weapon. Cross-checking with loudspeakers is always going to be important though, and I believe that's what all those crossfeed/virtual-room-DSP's are gonna be used for in the future for people that use their headphones 'plain' for mixing. I'm just speculating out of my ass at this point though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Also I've seen some people complaining that headphone "beautify" things, and that with headphone it almost always sound good, and hence it's unreliable for mixing.


 
  Given that we're in an HD800 thread, that's almost hilarious to think about, considering the oodles of people that hate this phone due to it being too 'cold'/'clinical'/'unforgiving'. While I personally wouldn't use those words to describe them, I do think headphones tend to be more revealing than similarly priced loudspeaker counterparts on average, if for no other reason than the obvious fact that they're right up against the side of your head so you can hear things better.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Now, I'm not aware of any headphone equivalents to the NS10's or auratones, but those are a whole other story anyway... I think bass and depth are probably the toughest things to get right with headphones, but other than that, they're really not too far behind, imo.


----------



## Maxvla

EDM is different though because virtually everything isn't real. There is no reference so they can do whatever they want.


----------



## oblique63

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> EDM is different though because virtually everything isn't real. There is no reference so they can do whatever they want.


 





 Yeah, in terms of getting timbre 'right', that's pretty much true. I think the merits there are more about getting ambiance and special positioning right though, not to mention the deep, controlled (yet, admittedly artificial) bass. It's not easy getting those lower frequencies right without a decent subwoofer setup, so any headphone-produced EDM with good, clean thumpin' [virtual] bass still probably deserves a bit of kudos I think. Then again, I'm really not that much into the EDM scene, so a lot of that could be pre-made samples for all I know, but I prefer to be optimistic about it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Either way, I'm sure headphone-production will spread to other -- less 'artificial'(?) -- genres in time; we gotta crawl before we can walk after all...


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

[size=large]*Thoughts on the *[/size]

 *[size=large]NFB-27 [/size]*
*[size=large]for the HD800s?[/size]*


----------



## Pudu

^ Thinking outside the box?


----------



## BournePerfect

Nice, Pudu.

-Daniel


----------



## jackskelly

Listening to the HD 800's right now on a great source...Wow...it makes me somewhat regret my purchase of the SR-009s. They can't be much better, headphones overall cannot get MUCH better than the HD 800's.


----------



## BournePerfect

MH and crew in 3...2...

-Daniel


----------



## Maxvla

jackskelly said:


> Listening to the HD 800's right now on a great source...Wow...it makes me somewhat regret my purchase of the SR-009s. They can't be much better, headphones overall cannot get MUCH better than the HD 800's.



Yes. This!

SR009 is truly amazing, but it has faults I don't think I could live with long term. I'd always be looking. I think I've landed with the HD800 and can finally focus on the rest, then hopefully all focus goes on music. The HD800 has room to improve with gear above mine, so it is possible I can reach (or be close enough) some of the things that SR009 does better than HD800 given time and budget.


----------



## Pudu

bourneperfect said:


> MH and crew in 3...2...
> 
> -Daniel


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Yes. This!
> 
> SR009 is truly amazing, but it has faults I don't think I could live with long term. I'd always be looking. I think I've landed with the HD800 and can finally focus on the rest, then hopefully all focus goes on music. The HD800 has room to improve with gear above mine, so it is possible I can reach (or be close enough) some of the things that SR009 does better than HD800 given time and budget.


 
   
  It took me A LOT of money to build the ultimate system before I was truly satisfied with them, but the beauty is the system performs equally as well for the LCD3.  The gain on my amp is not configured for phones like the HE-6 though, and was optimized for the HD800 and high sensitivity phones.  That could be changed, but then the performance of the high sensitivity phones would drop a notch.
   
  IMO the HD800 need to be driven in a balanced configuration to get the most out of them.


----------



## Spakka

So, my replacement HD800 have finally arrived!
   
  Damn I missed these things...
   
   
  Serial number 212xx


----------



## Solude

Wow another 1000 since I got mine a few weeks back :O


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





spakka said:


> So, my replacement HD800 have finally arrived!
> 
> Damn I missed these things...
> 
> ...


 

 What happened to original one?


----------



## YoengJyh

I am so glad to see many HD800 members now and you guys do really fall in love to it as me!
   
  Hurray!
   
  YJ


----------



## Spakka

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> What happened to original one?


 
   
  One of the cable jacks was really wobbly, so it went for repair. Came back worse than before + a bit scratched up. 
   
  I think the serial number has gone up so fast because the one I just got is a very freshly manufactured one. But still that many in not long is crazy, maybe the numbers aren't done in sequence after all?


----------



## jackskelly

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> It took me A LOT of money to build the ultimate system before I was truly satisfied with them, but the beauty is the system performs equally as well for the LCD3.  The gain on my amp is not configured for phones like the HE-6 though, and was optimized for the HD800 and high sensitivity phones.  That could be changed, but then the performance of the high sensitivity phones would drop a notch.
> 
> IMO the HD800 need to be driven in a balanced configuration to get the most out of them.


 
   
  Yeah, the next thing I should do to get better sound from my HD 800 is to upgrade my cable from the stock cable and get a balanced amp.


----------



## Solude

And an new source and  amp   The HD800 scales very high.  I'm pretty sure even my PWD2 and Soloist aren't the ceiling.


----------



## jackskelly

Quote: 





solude said:


> And an new source and  amp   The HD800 scales very high.  I'm pretty sure even my PWD2 and Soloist aren't the ceiling.


 
   
  Yeah, I've heard great things about the PerfectWave DAC though, it would definitely be a step up from the NuForce DAC-100 I have now. Something in that price range would probably be the next logical step up in terms of DAC's for me. I don't think I'll be buying it anytime soon though, as I've just recently bought both the SR-009's and HeadAmp Blue Hawaii SE amp, I need some time for my wallet to recover.


----------



## Solude

Ya that's a bit of a jump =)  Hopefully you like the stat sound.


----------



## preproman

Did the B22 get there yet?  Saw it - looks really nice..


----------



## Solude

Shipped yesterday, should be here by Friday.
   
  http://solderworksaudio.com/Portfolio.html
   
  Middle row is mine =)


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

So I spent last night listening to the BHA-1/HD800 combo after a conversation with another forum member. It occurred to me that I've never really given this pairing a fair shake, since I've always recently had a tube amp that was ostensibly "for" the HD800.
   
  Well, I must say that the BHA-1 drives the HD800 extremely well. Some recordings were harsher the treble than with the Super 7/HD800 combo (which itself is not overly lush or lacking in transparency), but on the whole I found the pairing quite respectable.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> So I spent last night listening to the BHA-1/HD800 combo after a conversation with another forum member. It occurred to me that I've never really given this pairing a fair shake, since I've always recently had a tube amp that was ostensibly "for" the HD800.
> 
> Well, I must say that the BHA-1 drives the HD800 extremely well. Some recordings were harsher the treble than with the Super 7/HD800 combo (which itself is not overly lush or lacking in transparency), but on the whole I found the pairing quite respectable.


 
  Quite respectable sound like not exceptional. I am also curious to see when I get the review sample of the Taboo Mk111 next week if they will scale much higher than the csp2 I have in house or even the v200. I like the CSP2 more so than the v200 but its slightly above not a leap and bounds level up.  I do prefer the lcd 2.2   on the v200 slightly more than the csp2. Do you find the Bryston bright in the treble? is it a warm sounding amp?


----------



## jtinto

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> So I spent last night listening to the BHA-1/HD800 combo after a conversation with another forum member. It occurred to me that I've never really given this pairing a fair shake, since I've always recently had a tube amp that was ostensibly "for" the HD800.
> 
> Well, I must say that the BHA-1 drives the HD800 extremely well. Some recordings were harsher the treble than with the Super 7/HD800 combo (which itself is not overly lush or lacking in transparency), but on the whole I found the pairing quite respectable.


 
   
  Olias, I really like the BHA-1 / HD-800 pairing too.
  I've only been running single-ended to date, until I find a balanced cable.
  Did you get a chance to compare those two connections on the BHA-1?
  I've read quite a few reviews and posts that say balanced is much better...


----------



## jtinto

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Quite respectable sound like not exceptional. I am also curious to see when I get the review sample of the Taboo Mk111 next week if they will scale much higher than the csp2 I have in house or even the v200. I like the CSP2 more so than the v200 but its slightly above not a leap and bounds level up.  I do prefer the lcd 2.2   on the v200 slightly more than the csp2. Do you find the Bryston bright in the treble? is it a warm sounding amp?


 
  Frank, IMO very respectable.
  A bit brighter and livelier than the Burson Soloist it replaced.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





jtinto said:


> Frank, IMO very respectable.
> A bit brighter and livelier than the Burson Soloist it replaced.


 
   
   
   
   
  What didn't you like about the soloist?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





jtinto said:


> Frank, IMO very respectable.
> A bit brighter and livelier than the Burson Soloist it replaced.


 
  Not sure I would like the brighter than the Soloist. I seem to prefer more warmer amps than others.  The Soloist I led but it was not what i would consider as d=good as my csp2 with the hd800 and I even preferred the V200 with the hd800. i will have to hear one. The question also is the power rating seems lower than both the Soloist and V200 making it not as ideal for planars. Has anyone experienced it driving the planars. Usually with balanced I hear louder volume over single ended but I have balanced cables for balance damps also.


----------



## Maxvla

HD800 and BHA-1 is my favorite pairing so far. Will be trying a GS-X v2 this Saturday. Still need to find a way to hear an EC amp.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Quite respectable sound like not exceptional. I am also curious to see when I get the review sample of the Taboo Mk111 next week if they will scale much higher than the csp2 I have in house or even the v200. I like the CSP2 more so than the v200 but its slightly above not a leap and bounds level up.  I do prefer the lcd 2.2   on the v200 slightly more than the csp2. Do you find the Bryston bright in the treble? is it a warm sounding amp?


 

 I find the Bryston to be just a bit on the warm side and extended but not overly bright in the treble, especially in comparison to the Mjolnir (I know others disagree). I've long since sold my v200 so I won't speculate on how they'd compare, but I would say that if you like the essential character of the HD800 and you're not trying to find a synergistic match to "balance out" a perceived flaw, then you could do much worse than the BHA-1.


----------



## jtinto

Quote: 





preproman said:


> What didn't you like about the soloist?


 
  preproman, it wasn't that I disliked the Soloist, it was that I liked the BHA-1 more with the HD-800 and LCD-3.
  My RS-1i was a bit bright with both of those amps, so the Mapletree still wins there ...


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





jtinto said:


> Olias, I really like the BHA-1 / HD-800 pairing too.
> I've only been running single-ended to date, until I find a balanced cable.
> Did you get a chance to compare those two connections on the BHA-1?
> I've read quite a few reviews and posts that say balanced is much better...


 
   
  I'm running balanced inputs from my m903 to the BHA-1, then single-ended output to the HD800. I'm contemplating sending my Black Dragon cable back to Moon to be reterminated in 4-pin XLR but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
   
  I did find that I like the BHA-1 much better with balanced input vs. single-ended input, though that may be as much a function of my source as anything else.


----------



## jtinto

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> I'm running balanced inputs from my m903 to the BHA-1, then single-ended output to the HD800. I'm contemplating sending my Black Dragon cable back to Moon to be reterminated in 4-pin XLR but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
> 
> I did find that I like the BHA-1 much better with balanced input vs. single-ended input, though that may be as much a function of my source as anything else.


 
  Thanks Olias, I should compare the balanced vs. single inputs in my setup. Should be easy to do with the input switch on the front.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





jackskelly said:


> I've heard some people say that Sennheiser tweaked something for the "new" version of the HD800. Is this true? If so, what is it? I have serial number 15905, bought in April of 2012. Was the tweak made after that?


 
   
  I have serial 20433. It has a weeee bit of breakup at the dredded 6.5k, but I could be imagining it. That was with a 6.5k test signal through a Lyr. But that was also with brand new tubes on the brand new Lyr on brand new phones, so I can't vouch for my test conditions. The headphones don't have more than 100hrs on them yet. No spring sound from mine either.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> So I spent last night listening to the BHA-1/HD800 combo after a conversation with another forum member. It occurred to me that I've never really given this pairing a fair shake, since I've always recently had a tube amp that was ostensibly "for" the HD800.
> 
> Well, I must say that the BHA-1 drives the HD800 extremely well. Some recordings were harsher the treble than with the Super 7/HD800 combo (which itself is not overly lush or lacking in transparency), but on the whole I found the pairing quite respectable.


 
   
   
  The ole flip / flop I see..


----------



## Solude

Short of sending them in for measuring... listening wise I think somewhere in the 19000+ models they changed the bass response.  It is very powerful and present.  My previous pairs were lean and passive.  This pair sent an LCD-2 Rev2 packing because even the bass performance of the LCD-2 couldn't keep up with this HD800.  In comparison the LCD-2 reached deeper but was slow and muddy with presence but loose.  This HD800 is tight, fast and visceral.  I don't regret dumping  Audeze in favour of this HD800.
   
  The joke is I almost didn't order because my notes for the HD800 have been consistent and I thought I already know the outcome.  I was wrong... very wrong.  Loving this pair.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





solude said:


> Short of sending them in for measuring... listening wise I think somewhere in the 19000+ models they changed the bass response.  It is very powerful and present.  My previous pairs were lean and passive.  This pair sent an LCD-2 Rev2 packing because even the bass performance of the LCD-2 couldn't keep up with this HD800.  In comparison the LCD-2 reached deeper but was slow and muddy with presence but loose.  This HD800 is tight, fast and visceral.  I don't regret dumping  Audeze in favour of this HD800.
> 
> The joke is I almost didn't order because my notes for the HD800 have been consistent and I thought I already know the outcome.  I was wrong... very wrong.  Loving this pair.


 
   
  Yes, exactly... Sold LCD-2 after hearing my pair. S/N 19008


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





preproman said:


> The ole flip / flop I see..


 

 Yup. It's only happened three or four times... this week.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Yup. It's only happened three or four times... this week.


 
  Which DAC do you use the most with the BHA-1/MJ?


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





solude said:


> Short of sending them in for measuring... listening wise I think somewhere in the 19000+ models they changed the bass response.  It is very powerful and present.  My previous pairs were lean and passive.  This pair sent an LCD-2 Rev2 packing because even the bass performance of the LCD-2 couldn't keep up with this HD800.  In comparison the LCD-2 reached deeper but was slow and muddy with presence but loose.  This HD800 is tight, fast and visceral.  I don't regret dumping  Audeze in favour of this HD800.
> 
> The joke is I almost didn't order because my notes for the HD800 have been consistent and I thought I already know the outcome.  I was wrong... very wrong.  Loving this pair.


 
   
  Quote: 





rusta said:


> Yes, exactly... Sold LCD-2 after hearing my pair. S/N 19008


 
   
  +1
   
  I own 19828 and I absolutely adore them. I was really uncertain about buying them reading all the reviews and half expected them to be bass light and clinical. Not a bit of it. In my rig they couldn't be more musical, balanced and extended. Even with electronic music like Bjork they really shine and the bass is genuinely spectacular.  
   
  I'm so glad I sold my LCD2r2, they never did it for me.


----------



## preproman

Looks like the HD800s are making a come back with the 19000+ club.
   
  (19547)


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Which DAC do you use the most with the BHA-1/MJ?


 
   
  I've firmly decided to keep the m903 for the time being. I'll probably wait to upgrade until the whole DSD thing works itself out.


----------



## Spakka

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Looks like the HD800s are making a come back with the 19000+ club.
> 
> (19547)


 
   
   
  19000+ club is old hat!
   
  Forwards the 21000+ !!


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





spakka said:


> 19000+ club is old hat!
> 
> Forwards the 21000+ !!


 
  Man - don't you know that's when we're *"speculating"* the fine tuning took place..


----------



## Maxvla

My 16k are plenty strong in the bass. It's not a new thing.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

My 11000s seem bassier than the 1000s I sold, but I don't know if that's related to the cans, my improved rig or wishful thinking.


----------



## Solude

Without a 19K+ how do you know   My 07/2012 pair was quoting my notes...
   
  lacking very bottom
  somewhat flat
   
  little emotional engagement
  greyness to it
  back of club feel
  somewhat dry
   
  This pair isn't any of those


----------



## Mr Blonde

I got my 19k+ HD 800 even in 03-04/2012.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





solude said:


> Without a 19K+ how do you know   My 07/2012 pair was quoting my notes...
> 
> lacking very bottom
> somewhat flat
> ...


 

 Is the rest of your system same as back in 07/2012?


----------



## Frank I

According to people on tis topic and it came form a source in Germany they made changes starting with pairs  over 10000 serial numbers. Sennheiser has never either acknowledged or denied the rumors. I know my pair is better than the first ones I had and it over 10000 but others say they are the same.  In any event I like the pair i have and wont sell them.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





solude said:


> Without a 19K+ how do you know   My 07/2012 pair was quoting my notes...
> 
> lacking very bottom
> somewhat flat
> ...


 

 Is the rest of your system same as back in 07/2012? And even if it is, w/o proper A/B it's hard to tell, audio memory is pretty short and there is a big part played by "emotional" tuning.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





frank i said:


> According to people on tis topic and it came form a source in Germany they made changes starting with pairs  over 10000 serial numbers. Sennheiser has never either acknowledged or denied the rumors. I know my pair is better than the first ones I had and it over 10000 but others say they are the same.  In any event I like the pair i have and wont sell them.


 

 And when 10,000 started shipping?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> And when 10,000 started shipping?


 
  I have no idea you would need to go back and research the old thread to see when they started to ship been a while back,,.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





frank i said:


> According to people on tis topic and it came form a source in Germany they made changes starting with pairs  over 10000 serial numbers. Sennheiser has never either acknowledged or denied the rumors. I know my pair is better than the first ones I had and it over 10000 but others say they are the same.  In any event I like the pair i have and wont sell them.


 

 Not confirmed ... But when I  was in the store, I just  bought the one with the biggest serial number available


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I have no idea you would need to go back and research the old thread to see when they started to ship been a while back,,.


 

 This is also an interesting data point
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/646871/new-hd-800-very-different-than-the-old-hd-800/30#post_9090996
   
  Quote: 





purrin said:


> BTW, pertaining to the OP. I've measured five pairs of HD800 with s/n's from the hundreds to ~15000. (I can't say for units s/n ~20+), but all of the HD800 basically sounded the same and measured the same, at least on my rig (despite provided Senn graphs.) Maybe, maybe one pair, Maxvla's s/n ~15k seems slightly warmer with less of a peak in direct comparison with two other pairs (Jason and Analmort's) we happened to have had on hand for that session. Even then, the measurements on Maxvla's pair did not indicate any significant differences which would explain this. The subjective differences between so called early pairs and late pairs can probably be accounted for as follows: 1) individual pair characteristics; 2) music being played at the time; 3) equipment being used at the time; 4) mood and/or developing tastes.
> 
> It's possible the later production pairs do sound different, but I haven't encountered this specifically with early s/n and late s/n pairs in direct controlled tests using the same measurement equipment, and same sets of ears, test tracks, and gear. Besides, if you've ever talked to a Senn rep, they will say the HD800 is neutral and perfect. One tends not correct neutral and perfect.


----------



## Frank I

And you will find a different post from Innerspace who had a few pairs and all sounded different. Measurements dont always tell anyone how anything will sound. You can also have amplifier made by the same company and change one capacitor and the sound will be different even though they measure the same. I had a dealer change one capacitor in my Pioneer sx980 and the sound was very different even though the caps values were identical but from different manufactures. So I dont buy in to the measurements as being the end all at least form my 38 years of buying gear.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





frank i said:


> And you will find a different post from Innerspace who had a few pairs and all sounded different. Measurements dont always tell anyone how anything will sound. You can also have amplifier made by the same company and change one capacitor and the sound will be different even though they measure the same. I had a dealer change one capacitor in my Pioneer sx980 and the sound was very different even though the caps values were identical but from different manufactures. So I dont buy in to the measurements as being the end all at least form my 38 years of buying gear.


 

 Didn't Purrin say "measured AND sounded" the same. And if the bass response is significantly different, it should show in FQ response, we are not talking about some miniscule differences, do we?


----------



## Mr Blonde

Quote: 





frank i said:


> According to people on tis topic and it came form a source in Germany they made changes starting with pairs  over 10000 serial numbers. Sennheiser has never either acknowledged or denied the rumors. I know my pair is better than the first ones I had and it over 10000 but others say they are the same.  In any event I like the pair i have and wont sell them.


 
  AFAIK Sennheiser always denied any changes in HD 800 production since it started until now.
  You can count me as a German source, too.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





mr blonde said:


> AFAIK Sennheiser always denied any changes in HD 800 production since it started until now.
> You can count me as a German source, too.


 

 I  don't want to start an other flame war, but when people claim they hear difference by swapping cables, it's perhaps even less surprising they hear differences from different batch of the hd800.


----------



## Maxvla

Let's not forget why the last thread was closed, cable arguments, so lets move on.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I  don't want to start an other flame war, but when people claim they hear difference by swapping cables, it's perhaps even less surprising they hear differences from different batch of the hd800.


 

 Let's stay on the course, please, the other HD800 thread was locked because of the raging cable discussion.


----------



## Mr Blonde

This denial by Sennheiser doesn't mean there aren't any differences at all between one and another model. But they try to make them all sound as equal as possible. So if you really imagine to hear or at least measure -which seems to be quite more possible- differences between one and another pair it's imaginable, imho. But this matter of industrial production is no proof at all for a "new", "other" or any kind of differnce in sound signature forced by Sennheiser.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> Is the rest of your system same as back in 07/2012?


 
   
  Nope.  Now using a brighter DAC and more laid back amp and still ended up with a bass monster that is dynamic... go figure.
   
  Rig at that time was W4S DAC-2 and Apex Peak w/ a Sylvania Bad Boy.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

I'm thinking that Sennheiser produce lot of drivers, that some some variation naturally occurs, but then they try to isolate a couple of divers that are well matched to create a hd800 .


----------



## myc

So it's after S/N 19000 ... hmm.. interesting.. please someone send theirs for measurement to Tyll or anybody capable. I'm still in honeymoon tho
   
  Highest that Purrin tested was 15xxxx?
   
  I guess I'm joinin team "Doesn't get much better than HD 800 S/N > 19000" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I don't expect my HD 800 to be this good.. but this bass makes it very fun headphone.. nice PRAT. And there is no treble peak, no fatigue


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





spakka said:


> 19000+ club is old hat!
> 
> Forwards the 21000+ !!


 
   
  My pair are either in the 500s or 600s.  It was from the first batch they ever shipped.  THAT's old hat.


----------



## Maxvla

Not sure if he has tested any higher than mine which is 16k, but I seriously doubt there was a change. Perhaps people have better synergy in their rigs now. I know my HD800s sound very different than when I heard HD800s the first time on a rig I now know to be quite inferior to what I have now.


----------



## brokenthumb

Mine is 153XX and it is all of the above also.  I was expecting a very sterile headphone and what I got is more fun than any other headphone I've owned.  The music just sounds right and is very dynamic.
   
  I was really expecting to send the HD800 back and purchase another HE-500 or LCD-2 but the HD800 isn't going anywhere!


----------



## BournePerfect

Ima laugh at the cable skeptics when someone cuts open a 19xxx+ HD800 cable and find that Senn ditched the spc for something better and this was the only change.  Do it, somebody...

-Daniel


----------



## CDewey

Still breaking my new pair in 208XX. I know these are the cans for me. Next will be upgrading the chain. I like my integrated unit because I like speakers and simplicity. However thinking of the Bryston headphone amp next haha


----------



## Maxvla

Do it! :evil:


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





solude said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have the W4S DAC-2 and the Decware CSP2+ with SN 20521 and it has great slam. I have not heard any of the early versions, This is the best system I have had so far and I am really happy (Of course I do have the Taboo Mk III on order..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Ima laugh at the cable skeptics when someone cuts open a 19xxx+ HD800 cable and find that Senn ditched the spc for something better and this was the only change.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Naughty....


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Ima laugh at the cable skeptics when someone cuts open a 19xxx+ HD800 cable and find that Senn ditched the spc for something better and this was the only change.


 
   
  I waiting for my copper cable to come in and will be able to hear for myself just how gimp or not the stock cable is.


----------



## CDewey

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Do it!


 
  It has a lot to do with your reviews...   I've never heard it, but like the Bryston brand in general, doubt I'll be disappointed.   I use their dac and preamp on one of the systems at work and love them.


----------



## Maxvla

There are actually a lot of BHA-1 owners around. They seem to hide in the shadows though, kinda weird. I find new owners all the time but always while I'm looking at threads on other topics.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Ima laugh at the cable skeptics when someone cuts open a 19xxx+ HD800 cable and find that Senn ditched the spc for something better and this was the only change.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Uncle Erik bought his pair very shortly after I got mine and was also in the first production run.  His had slightly more bass than my pair but had slightly less detail and soundstage width.  So I doubt it has anything to do with new serial numbers vs. old ones.  All drivers will have some variance and that is why Sennheiser matches driver pairs to within half a decibel.
   
  Unless they have a new supplier of materials for their ring radiator driver, I highly doubt there are such great sonic differences between the serial numbers.


----------



## silversurfer616

My serial number is 00852 and I don't want anything else.
  Out of the WA6 with a Cardas cable they are soooo much better than my LCD2Rev2.....the bass has control and slam;the 3D soundstage is like AVATAR for the ears and soon I will get some Norse adapter to use them balanced with my ALO chainmail on a Phoenix.


----------



## BournePerfect

I for one am not convinced that the newer models have more bass. My current #19XXX sounds identical to my previous 15xxx and 17xxx models. But I did finally find a tube for my ZDSE that has great impact-and now fully covers all genres well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## kazsud

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I for one am not convinced that the newer models have more bass. My current #19XXX sounds identical to my previous 15xxx and 17xxx models. But I did finally find a tube for my ZDSE that has great impact-and now fully covers all genres well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  What is the magic tube?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I for one am not convinced that the newer models have more bass. My current #19XXX sounds identical to my previous 15xxx and 17xxx models. But I did finally find a tube for my ZDSE that has great impact-and now fully covers all genres well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Oh for crying out loud. There are no trends in differences! I agree with this statement. My pair of 41XX and sound the same as the 20 000 I've heard. Are there some part to part differences? Maybe, but no trend from one sound to another! 
   
  Have a look at the HD800 Measurement thread...its all over the place! Many who sold their HD800s and re-bought them to find better bass had pretty much all had significant upgrades/changes to their rig between owning their first pair and second pair. And now there's a difference? Shocker!


----------



## ValentinHogea

bourneperfect said:


> I for one am not convinced that the newer models have more bass. My current #19XXX sounds identical to my previous 15xxx and 17xxx models. But I did finally find a tube for my ZDSE that has great impact-and now fully covers all genres well. :basshead:
> 
> -Daniel




Mullard ECC35...


----------



## BournePerfect

It's actually a current Sophia Electric GR A 6SL7 I got on ebay. I posted the link on the Zana tube rollers thread. Sorry I'm on my phone right now and it's not worth the effort.

Pete-yep I'd probably chalk it up to rig changes and manufacturing vatiation.

Valintin-how does that Mullard sound? Is it a good allrounder? For rock/pop?

-Daniel


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Oh for crying out loud. There are no trends in differences! I agree with this statement. My pair of 41XX and sound the same as the 20 000 I've heard. Are there some part to part differences? Maybe, but no trend from one sound to another!
> 
> Have a look at the HD800 Measurement thread...its all over the place! Many who sold their HD800s and re-bought them to find better bass had pretty much all had significant upgrades/changes to their rig between owning their first pair and second pair. And now there's a difference? Shocker!


 

 You are just jealous because you don't own 21XXX+ version. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  Kidding, of course.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> You are just jealous because you don't own 21XXX+ version.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Trust me, I'd buy one if there was a difference and sell mine off. I bought the LCD-2.2 when it came out for the improvements. But I hear no changes. Actually I felt that my pair had slightly more bass than the 20XXX I heard. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


 FWIW, purrin too thinks its all silly talk too.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Trust me, I'd buy one if there was a difference and sell mine off. I bought the LCD-2.2 when it came out for the improvements. But I hear no changes. Actually I felt that my pair had slightly more bass than the 20XXX I heard.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Maybe it is (I haven't heard older HD800 to compare myself)... But why people keep talking about "almost bassless HD800, without impact... lifeless... boring... bright and sharp in treble..."? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was so confused by that and was thinking about getting LCD-3 instead (even though they cost extremely much in Europe). However, after hearing HD800, I sold my LCD-2 and have zero interest in LCD-3 since HD800 are exactly what I wanted. I can finally focus on upgrading the rest of my chain now...


----------



## jeffreyfranz

Just pulled the trigger on a *new HD-800.* Won't arrive until probably 3rd or 4th week of March. Meanwhile, I can amp-dream and suffer along with the Stax rig (just kidding--I love my Stax). *Sold the LCD-2/R2* yesterday. Thought it was a really fun, dynamic and sweet headphone but hopelessly colored for my preferred classical music. Simply obscured too much fine detail and treble too suppressed. Toyed with the idea of jumping to LCD-3 but  too much uncertainty in threads I followed about the degree of improvement I might find, and I have _always_ wanted an HD-800. The waiting begins.


----------



## preproman

My older pair was my 4th favorite headphone after the HE-4, LCD-3 and the T1.  Now my new pair comes in 2nd or tied for second with the LCD-3 depending on the track.  I really don't care what Purin says - I can hear the difference in the two pair I've owned.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





preproman said:


> My older pair was my 4th favorite headphone after the HE-4, LCD-3 and the T1.  Now my new pair comes in 2nd or tied for second with the LCD-3 depending on the track.  I really don't care what Purin says - I can hear the difference in the two pair I've owned.


 
  Please let this be true.


----------



## Spakka

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> My pair are either in the 500s or 600s.  It was from the first batch they ever shipped.  THAT's old hat.


 
   
   
  Hey I'm just making sarcastic comments about this arbitrary number where they 'changed' the HD800!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Maybe it is (I haven't heard older HD800 to compare myself)... *But why people keep talking about "almost bassless HD800, without impact... lifeless... boring... bright and sharp in treble..."?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  When that happens, I usually look at their upstream rig (amp, source, dac, etc....).


----------



## jackskelly

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Maybe it is (I haven't heard older HD800 to compare myself)... But why people keep talking about "almost bassless HD800, without impact... lifeless... boring... bright and sharp in treble..."?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah, I remember Tyll of InnerFidelity called the HD800's "soulless" at a meeting at one of the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest's (maybe 2011), but then on a video he did talking about the HD800's he highly praised them. The HD800s seem to be very sensitive to the other aspects of the chain. I'll probably look to get a better dynamic amp for my HD800's after I get my SR-009/Blue Hawaii combo later this year, although I do think the DAC-100 sounds very good with the HD800's for what it is.


----------



## fejnomit

Naturally the HD800s are some of the most sensitive cans out there in terms of being affected by all aspects of the playback chain (including cable but I promise not to go there.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  I personally have never had any issue with the HD800's bass response and I'm 10K+.  Nearly every time I have felt un-jazzed about them it ends up having to do with the recording I'm listening to.  Mixers should use them, as they can reveal a poorly recorded bottom end better than any other phone I've heard.  The T-1s and the Hifimen and the Audez'es all compensate a bit on the lower end.  Also, let's keep in mind there is big difference between "full" bass and actual, real bass.  By this I mean that bass can boom and sound like "more" bass when it's really just distortion.  Not unpleasing, but distortion nonetheless.  And intentional sometimes too.  I would go so far as to say that if you want to know how much bass your recordings actually have, you will come closest by using the HD800s.  Same goes for tubes - if you want to determine the tubes that enhance and add to the perceived fullness of the bass in your recordings then use the HD800s - unbelievable the way they respond to this kind of rolling... Speaking of which --
   
  Quote: 





> Mullard ECC35...


 
   
  I'm glad you mentioned this - I use this tube on my BA and it is hands down the best driver for both the HD800 and the LCD-3.  That perfect combination of incisive dynamics, detail, and richness of tone.  A perfect complement to the HD800s...


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





spakka said:


> Hey I'm just making sarcastic comments about this arbitrary number where they 'changed' the HD800!


 
   
  But they never did change them.  There will always be variances between driver pairs.  I bet you could listen to a pair made a year from now and find it to sound quite different from the one you own.


----------



## kazsud

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Maybe it is (I haven't heard older HD800 to compare myself)... But why people keep talking about "almost bassless HD800, without impact... lifeless... boring... bright and sharp in treble..."?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  My 17XXX are almost bassless, without impact... lifeless... boring... bright and sharp in treble. 
   
  Which has me looking to try other amps :/


----------



## Spakka

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> But they never did change them.  There will always be variances between driver pairs.  I bet you could listen to a pair made a year from now and find it to sound quite different from the one you own.


 
   
  Which is what I said in my post!
   
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyways moving on...


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





fejnomit said:


> Naturally the HD800s are some of the most sensitive cans out there in terms of being affected by all aspects of the playback chain (including cable but I promise not to go there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have a Mullard MC1 12ax7 in mine and it's sublime.


----------



## jeffreyfranz

Quote: 





preproman said:


> My older pair was my 4th favorite headphone after the HE-4, LCD-3 and the T1.  Now my new pair comes in 2nd or tied for second with the LCD-3 depending on the track.  I really don't care what Purin says - I can hear the difference in the two pair I've owned.


 
   
  So, I'm guessing #1 is the 009?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





jeffreyfranz said:


> So, I'm guessing #1 is the 009?


 
   
  Well I don't own the 009 yet..   It would be If I owned it - I was in aw when I gave it a good listen for a while.  For now it's the HE-6 on the First Watt F1J amp


----------



## aphex27

Anyone else using the Musical Fidelity M1 HPA amp with the HD800?


----------



## verber

Quote: 





preproman said:


> My older pair was my 4th favorite headphone after the HE-4, LCD-3 and the T1.  Now my new pair comes in 2nd or tied for second with the LCD-3 depending on the track.  I really don't care what Purin says - I can hear the difference in the two pair I've owned.


 
   
  I can think if three reasons why the HD800 seem different.  The first is that there is a different.  Maybe it's a unit to unit difference, or maybe it's that something has been changes and everything more recent than XYZ is better. The second possibility (for some people) is that the rest of the equipment changed in some way (different DAC, amp, etc).
   
  There is a third possibility. There has been some really interesting research looking at how decisions we make actually change us. Choices we make aren't just a one time decision, but each choice we make does a little bit of rewiring in our brain giving us a bias toward things we have chosen. This is described in the book The Paradox of Choice and there is a nice example of this in the TED Talk The surprising science of happiness Dan Gilbert (9:50 minutes and following).
   
  --Mark


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





painterspal said:


> +1
> 
> I own 19828 and I absolutely adore them. I was really uncertain about buying them reading all the reviews and half expected them to be bass light and clinical. Not a bit of it. In my rig they couldn't be more musical, balanced and extended. Even with electronic music like Bjork they really shine and the bass is genuinely spectacular.
> 
> I'm so glad I sold my LCD2r2, they never did it for me.


 

 +1 on the Bjork. Try the Caravan Palace Panic album. The HD800s ROCK that album. I can't stop going back to it.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> My 17XXX are almost bassless, without impact... lifeless... boring... bright and sharp in treble.
> 
> Which has me looking to try other amps :/


 
   
  Currently I'm happy with the Schitt Bifrost/Lyr combo. I'm still tube rolling however. It's been less than a month. I also have the Asgard for comparative purposes. The Asgard is nice when you switch to it. Really sharp. A hair faster. But when you switch back to the Lyr there's an instant "Holy Schitt!" moment.  The HD800s or the amp fall apart with really busy stuff however.
   
  Example, Jean-Micheal Jars Zoolook. IMHO when it peaks in the first half, either the Lyr or the HD800s totally fall apart. There's just too much detail, dynamics and space. The house of cards collapses. I know for fact the Monitor Audio 952's (speakers) can pull it off with ease. The 952s will do that stuff all day long and also have that "room clearing power... you need."
   
  Having been exposed to a lot of high audio in my teens and early twenties, I'm wondering if headphones is the right route for me. Maybe its time to dig out that junk pair of Stax electrets SR-40s I have buries at the bottom of a junk box somewhere and see how they stack up to the 800s.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





verber said:


> There is a third possibility. There has been some really interesting research looking at how decisions we make actually change us.


 
   
  The problem with this theory is then it would have also occurred on our previous HD800 purchases as well.  The fact I went into this expecting the HD800 to be sold off again and an HE-6 to be brought in would suggest I was wired to dislike the HD800 
   
  On the gear argument...  I can't imagine everyone since 19000+ happened to change their rig in a way favourable to the HD800 while optimizing for another can, LCD-3 in my case.  Especially when many of us are were previously using the gear early HD800 owners are currently using and didn't like it.
   
  For me my previous two tries were...
   
  Stello DA220 MkII > B22 > HD800
  W4S DAC-2 > Apex Peak > HD800
   
  On both rigs I thought the LCD-2 Rev1 and then LCD-3 were better everywhere.  Staging included because though huge and well placed, those times the sound was so distant.  My notes literally refer to it as elevator music, completely void of life or engagement.
   
  Now I have the PWD2 > Soloist > HD800 and it wasn't even funny how fast the LCD-2 got curbed.  The bass is propulsive, mids are warm and the treble isn't hot in the least.  And the presentation is laser focused and forward.  Dark tunes are dark, bright ones tolerable.  Wouldn't even dream of modding these to reduce the treble.  I listen to music mostly falling into the 'rock' overarching genre for reference.
   
  What ever the reason... this pair isn't leaving


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Currently I'm happy with the Schitt Bifrost/Lyr combo. I'm still tube rolling however. It's been less than a month. I also have the Asgard for comparative purposes. The Asgard is nice when you switch to it. Really sharp. A hair faster. But when you switch back to the Lyr there's an instant "Holy Schitt!" moment.  The HD800s or the amp fall apart with really busy stuff however.
> 
> Example, Jean-Micheal Jars Zoolook. IMHO when it peaks in the first half, either the Lyr or the HD800s totally fall apart. There's just too much detail, dynamics and space. The house of cards collapses. I know for fact the Monitor Audio 952's (speakers) can pull it off with ease. The 952s will do that stuff all day long and also have that "room clearing power... you need."
> 
> Having been exposed to a lot of high audio in my teens and early twenties, I'm wondering if headphones is the right route for me. Maybe its time to dig out that junk pair of Stax electrets SR-40s I have buries at the bottom of a junk box somewhere and see how they stack up to the 800s.


 
  Usually it the amp that cant handle the swing of the recordings. The hd800 us very easy to drive but will scale up with upstream amps.  The headphone can handle everything and I have never hear  it collapse even on my most demanding albums. I have hdcd recordings that will challenge the most demanding systems and the HD800 always performs.  I came from ultra high end 2 channel and had the 15K Genesis V driven by another 20K worth of amps ad preamps and sources and the HD800 satisfy me and very happy with my setup. Keep working at and try different amps and sources and maybe you will find the right combo for you. It takes a bit of time to adjust but I find the experience more intimate and hardly use speakers anymore,


----------



## myc

Hmm.. so Bjork is good with HD 800? Will try tonight.. I've listened to Chuck Mangione "Feels So Good" 38 times or more non-stop last night.
   
  In any case, I think my HD 800 is a superb all-arounder


----------



## drez

girls generation said:


> Hmm sometimes it seems like the HD800 is creating soundstage that wasn't meant to be. Sometimes.




Well I have heard artificial soundstage before, usually with surround sound emulation, echoey headphones, manipulation of frequency response or blurring of edges. HD800 has very good time domain performance, there is little to no thickening or bloom to the sound. This is most definitely accurate, however whether the frequency response is contributing to the stage size is another matter and something I haven't looked into personally save for doing anax mod.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The Bifrost and Lyr are far from ideal for the HD800. Try some Amperex Bugle Boys though. They're much better than the 6N23P-EV, with very good clarity and coherence in busy passages. As transparent as the Lyr can be with the HD800 at the end of the chain.


----------



## Da5Id

^^^ Yeah I have a bifrost/lyr combo and don't like the HD-800's at all with the combo. When I first plugged the Senns into my new Invicta DAC HP outs a couple weeks ago, the Senns quickly became my favorite headphones ever. Not that it's a fair comparison of course.


----------



## Cante Ista

I have been a long time HD800 fan. First with the DNA Sonett. then I added the Phonitor but now I wonna plug here the First Watt F3 with HD800. Yeah, it is a speaker amp and yeah I am feeding it off speaker taps, but it sounds quite nice.Dead quiet and the defintion is superb. And nice bass to top thing off. Fun times!


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> I have been a long time HD800 fan. First with the DNA Sonett. then I added the Phonitor but now I wonna plug here the First Watt F3 with HD800. Yeah, it is a speaker amp and yeah I am feeding it off speaker taps, but it sounds quite nice.Dead quiet and the defintion is superb. And nice bass to top thing off. Fun times!


 
   
   
  What preamp - m51?


----------



## NightFlight

olor1n said:


> The Bifrost and Lyr are far from ideal for the HD800. Try some Amperex Bugle Boys though. They're much better than the 6N23P-EV, with very good clarity and coherence in busy passages. As transparent as the Lyr can be with the HD800 at the end of the chain.




Well, I had a budget and I had to start somewhere. I haven't heard "Music" for around 12 years or so. Last night the tubes started to break in and softened up the highs a great deal. The CD harshness went away and everything sounded "Musical". But somethingr weird happened, I stopped playback for about twenty minutes and now the music is on hiatus again. 70 hrs of tube break-in and counting. Less than a hundred for the full rig. So I have a ways to go before everything settles in. Still, I really want to know what happened. The space was reduced but the harshness was completely gone and punch came out to play.... Then it was gone. I was expecting the tubes/rig had hit its stride and then the space to come out as more time was put on. It hasn't yet. I'll have to check things tonight


----------



## Cante Ista

@ preproman - yeah that is my only pre amp now. Looking at gsx may be. Or a tube amp/pre for the had800. Any suggestions?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> @ preproman - yeah that is my only pre amp now. Looking at gsx may be. Or a tube amp/pre for the had800. Any suggestions?


 
   
   
  PM coming..


----------



## Cante Ista

Thanks preproman! As always, your input is much appreciated.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote: 





solude said:


> The problem with this theory is then it would have also occurred on our previous HD800 purchases as well.  The fact I went into this expecting the HD800 to be sold off again and an HE-6 to be brought in would suggest I was wired to dislike the HD800
> 
> On the gear argument...  I can't imagine everyone since 19000+ happened to change their rig in a way favourable to the HD800 while optimizing for another can, LCD-3 in my case.  Especially when many of us are were previously using the gear early HD800 owners are currently using and didn't like it.
> 
> ...


 
   
  All the things you said about the HD800 vs LCD2 I felt with all my pairs of HD800s.
   
  Another point, I very clearly remember people saying exactly what you're saying about their own pairs since SN # 9000+. Just last year, the 14000 and above were the golden batch, and every year it changes to become whatever people are getting at the time. It's been pretty funny to watch.
   
  My answer is your gear and preferences are what's causing this sudden change of heart. I'm also not ruling out the possibility that you have a good pair. There are always variances in individual units among headphones.


----------



## Solude

Let's also consider that Senn has in the past changed the HD600 and HD650 since their release so it's not unheard of for Senn to change a product post launch.  The so called right to change without notice clause.


----------



## Shahrose

True. Not denying what you claim, but just pointing out what's more likely.


----------



## Solude

Whatever the reason.  Whether it's always been this way or is now this way... it's a great headphone.


----------



## olor1n

I doubt a stealth tweak from Sennheiser could make someone go from disliking the HD800 to singing its praises. It's more plausible that upstream components are responsible.


----------



## BournePerfect

This thread is getting lame. Here's the thread discussing new vs. old HD800 conspiracies. Use it:

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/646871/new-hd-800-very-different-than-the-old-hd-800




-Daniel


----------



## extrabigmehdi

I  rather think that the sound signature of hd800 is puzzling. Small change in the treble area are easy to perceive, and since there's some natural variation in the production, lot of people are convinced that Sennheiser made changes, while in fact it's just that the headphone is enough revealing, that you can  perceive the little variations.


----------



## BournePerfect

:mad:


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


>


----------



## longbowbbs

Here is my HD800 Response graph for #20521:
   
   

   
  I thought I would add another one to the forum's collection.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Here is my HD800 Response graph for #20521:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Looks brilliant!


----------



## Cante Ista

Hey everyone. How do you find ur serial number? I am away from home and do not have my box and papers here. I do have me hd800 thou. Is is on the hp?


----------



## nigeljames

Mine is on the top of the headband.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Mine is on the top of the headband.


 
  +1


----------



## Cante Ista

Thank you gentlemen! My reading vision is rather poor. But now that you've pointed it out, I see it! thanks!!!

 Mine is 14878! -- the good batch!


----------



## silversurfer616

They are all good batches!It's the rest of the gear that might ruin it!


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> They are all good batches!It's the rest of the gear that might ruin it!


 

 totally agree!


----------



## Senn-Fi

S/N 4380 checking in...I bought them as "factory refurbished" from a local shop last May and they sound fantastic.  Not sure what exactly was refurbished so I could have newer drivers or maybe not. Either way, I heard them (only pair they had) and had to have them.
   
  I am listening to them with my speaker amp through speaker taps right now and they sound even more fantabulous.


----------



## NightFlight

frank i said:


> Usually it the amp that cant handle the swing of the recordings. The hd800 us very easy to drive but will scale up with upstream amps.  The headphone can handle everything and I have never hear  it collapse even on my most demanding albums. I have hdcd recordings that will challenge the most demanding systems and the HD800 always performs.  I came from ultra high end 2 channel and had the 15K Genesis V driven by another 20K worth of amps ad preamps and sources and the HD800 satisfy me and very happy with my setup. Keep working at and try different amps and sources and maybe you will find the right combo for you. It takes a bit of time to adjust but I find the experience more intimate and hardly use speakers anymore,




The Lyr is my first personally owned tube amp, also it's the first time I've had to break in tubes. Well I'm around 100hrs in with this pair and it happened. i


----------



## fejnomit

Moving beyond the *lame* discussion of serial numbers, I'd like to plug my favorite amp for the HD800 which is the DNA Stratus. The 2a3 is a great complement to the 800s. Directly heated triodes in general seem better than any smaller dual triodes or octals. They allow the 800s to retain their even frequency reponse while fleshing them out both up and down. The precise bones take on great body. The 2a3 is the best I've heard so far- better than the 300b. Next is the 45 when I get my BA redone. Any thoughts?


----------



## Solude

Stratus and the 2A3 is general come up a lot.


----------



## third_eye

Quote: 





fejnomit said:


> Moving beyond the *lame* discussion of serial numbers, I'd like to plug my favorite amp for the HD800 which is the DNA Stratus. The 2a3 is a great complement to the 800s. Directly heated triodes in general seem better than any smaller dual triodes or octals. They allow the 800s to retain their even frequency reponse while fleshing them out both up and down. The precise bones take on great body. The 2a3 is the best I've heard so far- better than the 300b. Next is the 45 when I get my BA redone. Any thoughts?


 
  +1 on the Stratus/HD800. No need to worry too much about serial numbers, mods, or cables. Just plug and play.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





third_eye said:


> +1 on the Stratus/HD800. No need to worry too much about serial numbers, mods, or cables. Just plug and play.


 

 Took a peak at it and before I spend that much... I think I would DIY. IMHO when you start to get into point to point wired gear... tweaking to your preference is key.  Are there any circuit board designed amps out there that are even in the same ballpark as this amp?


----------



## Cante Ista

uote: 





fejnomit said:


> Moving beyond the *lame* discussion of serial numbers, I'd like to plug my favorite amp for the HD800 which is the DNA Stratus. The 2a3 is a great complement to the 800s. Directly heated triodes in general seem better than any smaller dual triodes or octals. They allow the 800s to retain their even frequency reponse while fleshing them out both up and down. The precise bones take on great body. The 2a3 is the best I've heard so far- better than the 300b. Next is the 45 when I get my BA redone. Any thoughts?


 

 For me recently it is the F3 from First Watt. I am running it off speaker tops. Awesome bass extent ion and really even presentation across freq range.However currently the Stratus looks super appealing. As well as the GS-X mk2 -- having the preamp option on that one is a nice bonus.


----------



## dleblanc343

I compared my HD800 (14793) with my two friends' (one ~800 and 1200's) as well as two models we have in stock in-store (20500's). That's a total of 5 HD800's head to head a/b'ing.

The results? They all sound the same with stock cables on. Mine changes a bit with my Q and my friend's with the black dragon is noticeably tamed; but I find it sacrifices detail.

For those who have previously owned and didnt like the phone and loves it this time around; you definitely changed components in your rig leading to the retry being more enjoyable.

The HD800 is the flagship that changes the most along with various component changes. My lcd3 retain their sound signature on no matter what, the HE6 is analytical on many amps but perfect on my McIntosh 225 and various vintage tube integrateds. The HD800's could be confused as entirely different headphones going from an amp to another. I.E I don't enjoy the 800's on my mjolnir or the bha-1 but it's phenomenal on the stratus, S7 and my mc225.

I repeat my experience on our tests; five different HD800's in stock configuration on the same amps are literally the same sounding. The variances are probably existant from model to model, but even my good ears can't differentiate no matter how much focus i put on a passage.

Comparisons were made on bha-1, b22, burson ha160, woo wa6se, nuforce hdp, fiio alpen, mjolnir, a vintage sansui integrated and a mcintosh mc225. Sources being bifrost, gungnir, m51


----------



## olor1n

Very informative post dleblanc343. I'm afraid it's futile though, as the rampant speculation will no doubt drown out this and other data points.
   
  Out of interest, have you tried the MJ>HD800 with the M51 behind it? I found the Gungnir wanting in that chain and all the qualities that irked me were addressed when the NAD replaced it.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> I compared my HD800 (14793) with my two friends' (one ~800 and 1200's) as well as two models we have in stock in-store (20500's). That's a total of 5 HD800's head to head a/b'ing.
> 
> The results? They all sound the same with stock cables on. Mine changes a bit with my Q and my friend's with the black dragon is noticeably tamed; but I find it sacrifices detail.
> 
> ...


 

 OK Sounds like we can all rest now! That was sure an intense test. Thanks dleblanc!


----------



## myc

Nice info 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


. 
   
Did you try it after "burning in" all the same 5 pairs?


----------



## BournePerfect

Still lame-because there is a seperate thread for that precise topic. Not sure how it relates to appreciation lol.

That said-I greatly appreciate my HD800/ZDSE combo, but am very curious to try the ECBA at some point. OTOT, there are a couple of Headfiers who feel the ZDSE/HD800 has better synergy than with the BA, so who knows. Would also like to hear the Stratus at some point too. I may actually try a higher end dac instead...decisions, decisions.

-Daniel


----------



## Solude

I appreciate the 19000+ Sen HD800.  Happy now 
   
  Great work on being the first to actually test the theory.  No change it is.


----------



## fejnomit

Quote: 





> Took a peak at it and before I spend that much... I think I would DIY. IMHO when you start to get into point to point wired gear... tweaking to your preference is key.  Are there any circuit board designed amps out there that are even in the same ballpark as this amp?


 
  That's assuming you know how to build - and have spent enough time doing so that you know the various benefits and deficits of the *many* circuit and component choices you will have to make.  I have gone down the road of having my *dream* headphone amp built for me many times and each time shied away at the end because I was never sure my chosen salad would end up tasting good.  I have always liked Donald's sound and trust his ear.  So for me the Stratus was a no-brainer.  And if there are a few things that I feel like changing about it as I get to know it better, that can always be done, as you suggest.   In terms of circuit board amps, there has been talk of the HD800 with the B-22...
  Quote: 





> For me recently it is the F3 from First Watt. I am running it off speaker tops. Awesome bass extent ion and really even presentation across freq range.However currently the Stratus looks super appealing. As well as the GS-X mk2 -- having the preamp option on that one is a nice bonus.


 
  I read your appreciation for the HE-6 -> F3 combination in the HE-6/Amp thread and find it very interesting you are recommending it here for the HD800s.  If it can handle both then it makes this perhaps the go-to SS amp for me...
   
  Quote: 





> That said-I greatly appreciate my HD800/ZDSE combo, but am very curious to try the ECBA at some point. OTOT, there are a couple of Headfiers who feel the ZDSE/HD800 has better synergy than with the BA, so who knows. Would also like to hear the Stratus at some point too. I may actually try a higher end dac instead...decisions, decisions.


 
  I have not been the biggest fan of the BA and the HD800 in stock configuration.  I have been using the Mullard ECC35 in the BA, which is a 6SL7 variant like the ZDSE.  I find the HD800 and a 6SL7 variants a sublime and very complimentary combination.  But the output tube is still a problem.  I don't care for the 300B, as I said.  And although I like the PX-4, it is mostly a detail-machine and note a tone-machine, to my ears.  That's why I am having my 300B/PX-4 BA swapped to a 45/2A3 version and plan still to use a 6SL7 variant for the HD800s.  This could be the ultimate BA->HD800 relationship.  Gonna be heard to beat the Stratus, however...


----------



## soullinker20

which do you think is the best cable for the hd800 to decrease the sibilance? I use them with the Zodiac+ and it is the song/recording who has the sibilance, maybe I could decrease it somehow?
   
  thanks


----------



## Solude

EQ


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





fejnomit said:


> That's assuming you know how to build - and have spent enough time doing so that you know the various benefits and deficits of the *many* circuit and component choices you will have to make.  I have gone down the road of having my *dream* headphone amp built for me many times and each time shied away at the end because I was never sure my chosen salad would end up tasting good.  I have always liked Donald's sound and trust his ear.  So for me the Stratus was a no-brainer.  And if there are a few things that I feel like changing about it as I get to know it better, that can always be done, as you suggest.   In terms of circuit board amps, there has been talk of the HD800 with the B-22...
> I read your appreciation for the HE-6 -> F3 combination in the HE-6/Amp thread and find it very interesting you are recommending it here for the HD800s.  If it can handle both then it makes this perhaps the go-to SS amp for me...
> 
> I have not been the biggest fan of the BA and the HD800 in stock configuration.  I have been using the Mullard ECC35 in the BA, which is a 6SL7 variant like the ZDSE.  I find the HD800 and a 6SL7 variants a sublime and very complimentary combination.  But the output tube is still a problem.  I don't care for the 300B, as I said.  And although I like the PX-4, it is mostly a detail-machine and note a tone-machine, to my ears.  That's why I am having my 300B/PX-4 BA swapped to a 45/2A3 version and plan still to use a 6SL7 variant for the HD800s.  This could be the ultimate BA->HD800 relationship.  Gonna be heard to beat the Stratus, however...


 
   
   
  Do you have a blow by blow comparisons of the Stratus vs. the BA or EC2A3 anywhere I can read up on?  These are the three amps I'm trying to decide on.  Not able to hear them first before purchase.


----------



## bearFNF

Just got the HD800's (#209xx) yesterday and after eight hours of listening I am very happy with the purchase.  Driving them with the Asgard 2 for now.


----------



## fejnomit

Quote: 





> Do you have a blow by blow comparisons of the Stratus vs. the BA or EC2A3 anywhere I can read up on?  These are the three amps I'm trying to decide on.  Not able to hear them first before purchase.


 
  I am still waiting on the mod to the BA, then I plan to do a lengthy comparison of the BA with 2A3 to the Stratus.  I'll post when ready but it won't be for a month probably.


----------



## silversurfer616

Quote: 





soullinker20 said:


> which do you think is the best cable for the hd800 to decrease the sibilance? I use them with the Zodiac+ and it is the song/recording who has the sibilance, maybe I could decrease it somehow?
> 
> thanks


 

 Don't know about the BEST but I have a Cardas and no sibilance.


----------



## fejnomit

That thread in the pirate site is hearsay.  Notice that anyone commenting on the Stratus, first of all, doesn't actually own it.  They heard it at meets.  To me this explains a lot about the so-called muddy bass - when have open-backed phones ever transmitted their bass well in a large boomy room?  I have never once experienced this and - in stark contrast - feel that *bass mud* is the downfall of the EC sound... 
   
  Second of all, they are talking about the Stratus with stock tubes.  When I first heard the BA with stock tubes I didn't want to buy it.  Then Craig rolled in the KR PX-4s and a very nice 6SN7 variant and it was a done deal.  So those listeners who have never tried the Status -> HD800 combination with various tubes should categorically NOT comment.  Simply changing the stock rectifier for the EML 5U4G, for instance, gives gorgeous, extended, detailed bass...  Not to mention what happens with better 2A3s...  And the notion that the S7 is some tube-rollers dream makes no sense to me.  You have a bunch of 6SN7s or 6SL7s.  And?  You better love that tube, or else...  To my hears that tube does no wonders for the HD800s.  It does not make them come to life...
   
  And the accusation that "fanboys" have populated the Stratus thread is utter B*S*.  I don't see how the same accusation can't be made for the BA thread.  The poster then goes on to say that the Eddie Current 2A3 with BA heater/psu is sure to be the ultimate.  Who says?  Why?  Based on what? 
   
  He is right about the output transformer playing a large role in the sound of the Stratus.  Same goes for the BA.  And the Electra-Print tone to me ears is inferior to the OPT chosen by Donald...  Also Solen caps sound to me quite dull and lifeless compared to the Jensen caps in the Stratus.   Point is, I would not let the EC *fanboys* turn you off from the Stratus - I would bring your HD800 to a meet to hear both if you can.  If you can't - and the only phone you're really looking to pair with an amp is the HD800 - then I would hands down choose the Stratus.  I would choose the Stratus for the LCD-3 as well, just with different tubes. 
   
  Hope that helps...


----------



## preproman

^^ Very informative.  How much does the DAC play a part in the sound coming from the Stratus?


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





preproman said:


> ^^ Very informative.  How much does the DAC play a part in the sound coming from the Stratus?


 
   
  +1
  Quote: 





fejnomit said:


> That thread in the pirate site is hearsay.  Notice that anyone commenting on the Stratus, first of all, doesn't actually own it.  They heard it at meets.  To me this explains a lot about the so-called muddy bass - when have open-backed phones ever transmitted their bass well in a large boomy room?  I have never once experienced this and - in stark contrast - feel that *bass mud* is the downfall of the EC sound...
> 
> Second of all, they are talking about the Stratus with stock tubes.  When I first heard the BA with stock tubes I didn't want to buy it.  Then Craig rolled in the KR PX-4s and a very nice 6SN7 variant and it was a done deal.  So those listeners who have never tried the Status -> HD800 combination with various tubes should categorically NOT comment.  Simply changing the stock rectifier for the EML 5U4G, for instance, gives gorgeous, extended, detailed bass...  Not to mention what happens with better 2A3s...  And the notion that the S7 is some tube-rollers dream makes no sense to me.  You have a bunch of 6SN7s or 6SL7s.  And?  You better love that tube, or else...  To my hears that tube does no wonders for the HD800s.  It does not make them come to life...
> 
> ...


 
  Absolutely. I just mentioned the fan boyism and qualified it because I did not want to get lumped with those who originally posted it, since I called attention to the thread.
   
  In any case, thanks fejnomit! This does help. Unfortunately I am on the East Cost and no one I am aware of has that amp to check out with my HD800. Bought the Sonett blind though and I am happy with it. For a while i was thinking of selling it but every time I plugged my fav cans (HD800 and K702) that the Sonett can handle I changed my mind and took it off FS threads. The price of the Stratus though makes it harder for me to buy it blind. I am also looking at the GSX mk2 for my HD800 -- which I have heard (Justin is few hours away from me) and thought that it had many things I am looking for to drive the HD800. With my current set up, I have a feeling that I have not squeezed out the last bit of performance out of my HD 800 -- even driven off my F3, which I really really like. Eventually, I would love to get the GS-X and the Stratus. For now, the feedback I get from all you Westerns is being recorded for future reference. Thanks!


----------



## fejnomit

I've had six DACs with the Stratus - I know, stupid, but hey...
  And keeping in mind this is an HD800 thread, these comments go for those phones primarily:
   
  They are:
   
  Meitner M1
  W4S Dac II Modded
   
  PS Audio DAC III with Cullen Mods
  Stello DA100
   
  Eximus DP-1
  Lampizator 5.4
   
  The DACs in the top group worked better with both the Stratus and the BA with the HD800.  Their precision, objectivity and resolution provided the crystal clear core to the sound, then the Stratus and BA could layer in their tone.  Then the HD800s could transmit it all in perfect balance.  I have found these two DACs most helpful in comparing headphone amps and tubes with the HD800 because they import so little of their own sound.  Got rid of the Meitner because it was just too SS sounding to me, but the W4S is my go-to DAC for the Stratus with HD800 combo (although same goes for LCD-3)...
   
  The middle group offers a bit more tone of their own and were very sweet with the Stratus and BA, but again, a bit more of their signature came through so it was harder to decipher which component was providing what...  The PS Audio wasn't great for the HD800 - too thin.  Not using those any more either...
   
  The bottom two are my favorite DACs *over all* as stand-alones with just about anything.  Either of those feeding the Phonitor is heard to beat - and that combo with the HD800 is sublime.  In terms of tubes, however, I really like to hear my DHT output tubes and both of these DACS have much more of their own tube sound (the Lamp being literally tubed) and can end up blowing out the Stratus a little and fattening the bottom end of the HD800s a bit too much.  Like I said, I find myself using these two DACs more for my main speaker rig and my SS amps.  (The Lampizator into my Blue Circle monos feeding the K1000s or the HE-6s is *killer*). 
   
  I guess if there were a formula it would be an interchange between tonal and neutral:
   
  Neutral DAC -> Tube Amp -> High-Rez Phones
   
  OR
   
  More Musical DAC -> Neutral Amp -> More Musical Phones
   
  As the HD800 falls into the top equation, the W4S Dac2 is my go-to DAC for them and the Stratus is go-to amp...
   
  Hope that helps...


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





fejnomit said:


> I've had six DACs with the Stratus - I know, stupid, but hey...
> And keeping in mind this is an HD800 thread, these comments go for those phones primarily:
> 
> They are:
> ...


 

 Awesome! Very helpful! Thanks!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





fejnomit said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   


> So instead of simply disagreeing with other's opinions you rather completely disregard their findings, nice.
> 
> I think you completely missed the context which things were said. Purrin never said the Stratus was just a muddy amp,
> he was specifying in comparison to another amp.
> ...


----------



## BournePerfect

Exactly. Also my ZDSE with Sophia 6SN7 has tighter bass, more impact, texture, and extension than any ss amp I've owned. FWIW.

-Daniel


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Exactly. Also my ZDSE with Sophia 6SN7 has tighter bass, more impact, texture, and extension than any ss amp I've owned. FWIW.
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
   
  If this is the case - where is the harmonic distortion that tubes are know for?


----------



## BournePerfect

Making magical mids.



-Daniel


----------



## third_eye

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Exactly. Also my ZDSE with Sophia 6SN7 has tighter bass, more impact, texture, and extension than any ss amp I've owned. FWIW.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  So it's the ultimate SS amp then?


----------



## BournePerfect

third_eye said:


> So it's the ultimate SS amp then?


Wouldn't be the first time that has been said about an EC amp.  Would love to hear a Stratus at some point too.

-Daniel


----------



## TooPoor

I tried getting through all the info on this thread and became saddened at the fact that my Lyr probably won't scale well with the HD800's. I was extremely close to grabbing a set to compliment the LCD2.2's, but have no intention on grabbing another desktop rig (at 3-4x the cost of the Bifrost/Lyr) to power the HD800's 'properly'. Someone please tell me I'm mistaken so I can justify the purchase.


----------



## BournePerfect

If you're enjoying it-what's the problem? Have peace of mind knowing when you upgrade the rest of your gear down the road, that the Senn will give back even more.

-Daniel


----------



## Shahrose

Quote: 





fejnomit said:


> I've had six DACs with the Stratus - I know, stupid, but hey...
> And keeping in mind this is an HD800 thread, these comments go for those phones primarily:
> 
> They are:
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> I compared my HD800 (14793) with my two friends' (one ~800 and 1200's) as well as two models we have in stock in-store (20500's). That's a total of 5 HD800's head to head a/b'ing.
> 
> The results? They all sound the same with stock cables on. Mine changes a bit with my Q and my friend's with the black dragon is noticeably tamed; but I find it sacrifices detail.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Very informative posts. Thank you to both.


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Very informative post dleblanc343. I'm afraid it's futile though, as the rampant speculation will no doubt drown out this and other data points.
> 
> Out of interest, have you tried the MJ>HD800 with the M51 behind it? I found the Gungnir wanting in that chain and all the qualities that irked me were addressed when the NAD replaced it.


 
  I did, the NAD is a better dac overall, and I preferred it to my gungnir. I am tempted to buy it, but I will wait to compare to the statement before spending more. The gungnir is great for the price though, and  the performance is fantastic when paired with the mjolnir in most cases.
  Quote: 





cante ista said:


> OK Sounds like we can all rest now! That was sure an intense test. Thanks dleblanc!


 
  Someone had to try it out! Turns out I had access to a large sample so why not! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





myc said:


> Nice info
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  All pairs besides the 20500's were burned in 500 hours +.
  Quote: 





soullinker20 said:


> which do you think is the best cable for the hd800 to decrease the sibilance? I use them with the Zodiac+ and it is the song/recording who has the sibilance, maybe I could decrease it somehow?
> 
> thanks


 
  The black dragon works well, but I find it takes a bit too much away. DHC coppers are good, the Q is neutral and that's what I use of my rigs.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am curious if anyone has purchased a backup cable from Sennheiser and re-terminating it with a 4pin XLR? With the new Taboo MK III coming I would like a balanced cable to use, but I would like to keep the cost down a bit from custom. Any ideas?


----------



## paradoxper

I'll be using a Sennheiser stock cable re-terminated until I get my DHC cable.
   
  If you don't do it yourself BTG is pretty cheap.


----------



## rawrster

BTG is a good place for it at low cost. You could also go to an electronics repair shop and see if they can do it for you as well except you may have to order the parts.


----------



## TooPoor

Ugh... just pulled the trigger on a set. I feel dirty. This whole headphone thing may, in fact, be an addiction. Explaining to my fiance how the HD800's are different than my LCD2.2s or Sig Pros has become an exercise in futility. Let's see how they work out!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Ugh... just pulled the trigger on a set. I feel dirty. This whole headphone thing may, in fact, be an addiction. Explaining to my fiance how the HD800's are different than my LCD2.2s or Sig Pros has become an exercise in futility. Let's see how they work out!


 
  In futility lol. We.l if she gives you too much grief at least its not too late to back out now. The  other half needs to understand and accept our passion


----------



## TooPoor

Her engagement ring alone could buy a new car or a down payment on a house. She's cool with my headphone obsession and acts (seemingly) interested. Still is a tough pill to swallow. "Well the LCD's have great bass/mids, but the imaging and soundstage on the HD800's is vastly superior!" Turns into, "You spent over $100 again on headphones? I just don't get it. I love my Apple Earbuds". Then again I don't understand her need for Burberry purses...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote:  





> "You spent over $100 again on headphones? I just don't get it. I love my Apple Earbuds". Then again I don't understand her need for Burberry purses...


 
   




   
  Oh yeah!


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *TooPoor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Ugh... just pulled the trigger on a set. I feel dirty. This whole headphone thing may, in fact, be an addiction. Explaining to my fiance how the HD800's are different than my LCD2.2s or Sig Pros has become an exercise in futility. Let's see how they work out!


 
   
  Congrats on the HD800 purchase.  I've had mine for a little over a month & used it daily.. so the 'honeymoon period' has worn off.. and I love them more than ever.
   
  I see you're running the Amperex (US?) "Orange Globe" in the Lyr.. I have that same tube in my TubeDAC-11 and found them to be a terrific match with the HD800.  Fully, punchy bass.. smooth, liquid mids.. and crisp, snappy treble.  The Amperex OG & Voskhod "Rocket" are my two favorite 6922 tubes to use in the TD-11.


----------



## TooPoor

I did omit an 'e' on Amperex, unintentionally of course... But so far I love the whole 'tube' experience. I have socket savers, multiple tubes (though I prefer the Orange Globes), etc... I just hope that I can roll tubes to find some synergy with the HD800s. Some may argue that it's pointless, but at this point, I can only better my gear. With the exception of my IEMs, all my headphones are in the $1k+ range, and I presently don't desire any other set (maybe HE-6 w/ stereo amp?). This thread is just so humbling with talk of $2k+ amps and even more expensive DACs.


----------



## Maxvla

Meh, it's only humbling if you let it be. These $2k amps and DACs aren't always better than the mid-fi stuff.


----------



## TooPoor

It's funny you should respond, as I see you have the BHA-1, which will be my next purchase most likely.... Let's see if I can wait more than a month!


----------



## Maxvla

Well the BHA-1 isn't 2k+


----------



## TooPoor

Touche, but matching DAC with it will be! I highly doubt my Bifrost will do the BHA-1 justice. Though I'm new at this, so I may be wrong, but I don't think so


----------



## fejnomit

Quote: 





> So instead of simply disagreeing with other's opinions you rather completely disregard their findings, nice.
> 
> I think you completely missed the context which things were said. Purrin never said the Stratus was just a muddy amp,
> he was specifying in comparison to another amp.
> ...


 
   
  I'm a little confused about having been rude.  It was not my intention to offend.  A link was posted to comments about the Stratus on another site and I merely pointed out that I disagreed and urged the poster asking the question about those findings to consider the opinion of those who actually own the amp being critiqued.  Seems scientific enough to me.  I never meant to disrespect others' findings  - although I must say that I do find the reference to enthusiastic support of the Stratus as the work of *fanboys* to be rude.  So I merely wanted to point out that that criticism could leveled at anyone who expresses enthusiasm for any product, so be careful.  Also, for reference, I have owned or currently own the ZD, the ECSS, and now two iterations of the BA - and I am a big fan of Craig's work - so I am somewhat familiar with the EC sound to which the Stratus was largely being compared.  Never would have occurred to me to call any contributions of EC threads the work of *fanboys* that's all.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> I did omit an 'e' on Amperex, unintentionally of course... But so far I love the whole 'tube' experience. I have socket savers, multiple tubes (though I prefer the Orange Globes), etc... I just hope that I can roll tubes to find some synergy with the HD800s. Some may argue that it's pointless, but at this point, I can only better my gear. With the exception of my IEMs, all my headphones are in the $1k+ range, and I presently don't desire any other set (maybe HE-6 w/ stereo amp?). This thread is just so humbling with talk of $2k+ amps and even more expensive DACs.


 
   
  Get a matched pair of 60's Bugle Boys. I loved the OGs for the HD650 but they're too murky for the HD800. The Bifrost/Lyr should tide you over until you can step up to more adequate components.


----------



## TooPoor

Already all over it (I hope). Just grabbed these:
   
 AMPEREX BUGLE BOY 6DJ8 ECC88 VACUUM TUBE 1964 O GETTER STRAIGHT MAN MATCH PAIR   
   Will see how they do against the Orange Globes!


----------



## palmfish

I finally ordered a pair of HD 800's this weekend.

Ive sampled them several times over the past two years and thought they sounded bright and thin. Went to a meet a few weeks ago and listened to them side by side with my D7000's on my system (Squeezbox Touch > Carver Receiver) and absolutely fell in love with them. Compared to my Denons, the HD 800 had better detail and clarity, richer midrange with zero bloat (my pet peave), and held its own in the bass department.

Im really looking forward to spending some time getting to know them.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   


Spoiler: bleh



 
  That's just not how I saw it. I feel you just missed the context of those comments.
   
  Purrin didn't even bash the Stratus, he simply said it was slightly muddier than x amp.
   
  Your response was 1. It's all hearsay (how is that anyway, it's not a discussion on a prototype, they actually heard the amp)...
  2. Anyone commenting on the Stratus doesn't own it (you certainly seemed to be implying some point there)
  3. It was all meet conditions (which I have to wonder if it even was, or if that's all speculation on your part)
  4. Those who haven't heard the amp rolled with HD800 should categorically not comment (how that isn't outright rude?)
   
  My point being you came off as an ass to me. Intended or not.
   
  It did not seem like you had an differing opinion, but rather you were out to discredit any contrary finding's to your own.
   
  Just want to clear the air, so you can see where I saw things coming from. I know you're not really an ass, nor
  am I trying to pick a fight or argue.
   


  On another note, my HD800's should be arriving tomorrow. Quite excited to find out
  if I like 'em this go 'round.


----------



## Cante Ista

Does anyone listen to LPs with these phones? I have a feeling that the LP warmth would be sooo nice with them. I am just speculating here -- I am all digital -- but anyone who has an LP set up, please share you experience. What's in your signal path? How does it sound in general? How does it compare to you digi set up?


----------



## third_eye

Well, if vinyl flac rips count, then yes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. And they do sound pretty amazing.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> Does anyone listen to LPs with these phones? I have a feeling that the LP warmth would be sooo nice with them. I am just speculating here -- I am all digital -- but anyone who has an LP set up, please share you experience. What's in your signal path? How does it sound in general? How does it compare to you digi set up?


 
   
  IMO, the HD800 handles vinyl the same way it handles digital -- good recordings (and clean LP copies) sound razor-sharp and fantastic, while bad recordings (and noisy LP copies) can be nearly unlistenable at times.
   
  I really like the tactile elements of playing LPs -- cleaning the records, flipping to side 2, the covers, etc. -- but I'm pretty agnostic when it comes to preferring one format or another from a sound quality standpoint. I'd therefore recommend going with quality. If you're going to take the time to source great-sounding vinyl to play on a decent rig (say, Rega RP3 or above), then you'll most definitely enjoy it with your HD800 rig.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Spoiler: bleh
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Cool. Are you using the same upstream gear as your last go round?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Cool. Are you using the same upstream gear as your last go round?


 
  No. And either it made the difference or I believe something changed. It's rockin' as in LCD-3 toe tappin' good.
   
  I'll be getting a couple loaner DACs and trying out the NAD M51 (again) and an Metrum Octave to see
  if Gungnir leaves early or stays until statement.
   
  I take back everything I ever said about HD800's not having impact or visceral qualities, they're pretty much LCD-3's
  but with better everything..


----------



## Maxvla

paradoxper said:


> I take back everything I ever said about HD800's not having impact or visceral qualities,* they're pretty much LCD-3's but with better everything..*



He's coming around!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> He's coming around!


 
  I'm surely eating crow and lovin' it!


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  L.O.L. Glad you're enjoying them. I'll eat my hat if you find no significant improvement in the M51 over the Gungnir. Especially with the HD800 at the end of the chain.


----------



## Raksasa

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *paradoxper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> *. . . .   I'll be getting a couple loaner DACs and trying out the NAD M51 (again) and an Metrum Octave to see*
> *if Gungnir leaves early or stays until statement. . . . . *


 
   
  Wow, really looking forward to your thoughts on this.
   
  Not that I don't trust olor1n's ears ( _or his LED sensitive eyes _





 ), just good to hear more thoughts on where da' Gung sits in the scheme of things.
   
  Cheers,
   
  R


----------



## olor1n

I don't think there are many here who've directly compared the Gungnir to the M51 John. Fwiw, there's myself, dleblanc343, prepoman, Loevhagen, and paradoxper. Para stands alone in his previous assessment, but I'd be more surprised if he maintains that stance with the HD800 at the end of the chain.


----------



## Raksasa

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *olor1n* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> *I don't think there are many here who've directly compared the Gungnir to the M51 John. Fwiw, there's myself, dleblanc343, prepoman, Loevhagen, and paradoxper. Para stands alone in his previous assessment, but I'd be more surprised if he maintains that stance with the HD800 at the end of the chain.*


 
   
  Ta Jon.
   
  I've missed some of the other guys thoughts re M51 v. da' Gung. Will have to go and rummage around the advanced search function.
   
  Dayam, there are sooooo many interesting DACs around, up to the $2k mark, these days. Plus what may come out in next 6 - 12 months.
  NONE of them have enough outputs for me. Will have to look into a switch box. I need 5 outputs (_1 bal, 4 x S/E_).
   
  I'm really doing long term research into a possible future DAC upgrade. Probably won't bite until I hear what the Schiit Statement is capable of.
  Have been pretty happy with my Schiit gear so far.
   
  R


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





raksasa said:


> Ta Jon.
> 
> I've missed some of the other guys thoughts re M51 v. da' Gung. Will have to go and rummage around the advanced search function.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
*"Dayam".*..  I like that
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So very true.  Lots of competition.  I have the Master 7 coming in a week or so.  If you're willing to spend up to 2K IMO the PWD2 is hard to beat at the 2K mark.  Note:  the MSRP is 4K I would not spend 4K for it.  You can get it sub 2.5k new all day on the street.  
   
  While I really like the m51 there a few I might like better.  The Anedio D2 for one.


----------



## myc

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> No. And either it made the difference or I believe something changed. It's rockin' as in LCD-3 toe tappin' good.
> 
> I'll be getting a couple loaner DACs and trying out the NAD M51 (again) and an Metrum Octave to see
> if Gungnir leaves early or stays until statement.
> ...


 
  So.. can we say current HD 800 is a bass BEAST then? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 
  And I think it could scale higher


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I take back everything I ever said about HD800's not having impact or visceral qualities, they're pretty much LCD-3's but with better everything..


 
   
  I had to eat that same crow with this pair of HD800s.  It wasn't even close, just pure face stomping on the LCD front.


----------



## myc

quote from david mahler's comparison 57 headphones:
   
*[size=11.333333015441895px]KING OF BASS:[/size]*[size=11.333333015441895px] The LCD-3 has the deepest-extending and most natural sounding bass response I have ever heard in a headphone. It should be enough bass to please a self-proclaimed bass-head, yet not too much bass to dissuade a neutrality-seeker. I agree with Jude who expressed the opinion that the LCD-3's bass was the best of the best.[/size]
   
  So?


----------



## BournePerfect

*So:*_ people have varying rigs and opinions?_
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Solude

Compared to the HD800 it's loose and tuneful with poor definition.  Classic sub vs full range bass performance.  The bass line blends very easily on the LCD-3 where it's separated on the HD800.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

I appreciate the HD800's bass for its precision, but I still prefer the LCD-3's bass presentation. I don't find it loose or sloppy at all (with proper amping).


----------



## Solude

Compared to, important distinction. On its own the LCD-3 bass isn't loose but beside the HD800?  Yes.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> *L.O.L*. Glad you're enjoying them. I'll eat my hat if you find no significant improvement in the M51 over the Gungnir. Especially with the HD800 at the end of the chain.


 
  Exactly.
   
  And this time firmware is up to date. So we'll see if that had any influence over it or if I just maybe prefer Gun.
   
  But I figure HD800 should be the deciding factor.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





solude said:


> I had to eat that same crow with this pair of HD800s.  It wasn't even close, just pure face stomping on the LCD front.


 
  It's not even funny, nor EVEN close, honestly.


----------



## myc

Yes of course it depends on source/amp, listener moods, recording quality, music preference, earpad fits, etc. but HD800 scales higher with better source/amp because it is neutral


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





myc said:


> but HD800 scales higher with better source/amp because it is neutral


 
  Or it's easier to add some coloration with a source, since by default the hd800 has none.


----------



## CDewey

So far I've only had mine for just over a week.  So far they have sounded fantastic with every genre I have thrown at them.  I can't wait to start making upgrades to the chain to get the most out of them.   I think the Bryston Headphone amp is my next purchase.


----------



## hiyu64

I just got a refurbished one from crutchfield.  I first registered my S/N on the SennheiserUSA site several days ago and I've yet to receive any confirmation emails.  I wanted my frequency response graph, so I registered on the main Sennheiser site and still no confirmation emails.  This is not looking good 
   
  On a side note, the HD800 sound wonderful though and I can't believe people bashing the bass on these things.  The bass is even better than my LCD-2.2s imo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Edit: Sennheiser.com auto reply came, still nothing from sennheiserUSA


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





hiyu64 said:


> I just got a refurbished one from crutchfield.  I first registered my S/N on the SennheiserUSA site several days ago and I've yet to receive any confirmation emails.  I wanted my frequency response graph, so I registered on the main Sennheiser site and still no confirmation emails.  This is not looking good
> 
> On a side note, the HD800 sound wonderful though and I can't believe people bashing the bass on these things.  The bass is even better than my LCD-2.2s imo


 

 What range is your serial no, first 3 digits?


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





hiyu64 said:


> Edit: Sennheiser.com auto reply came, still nothing from sennheiserUSA


 
   
  The graph comes in the mail, snail mail not email.


----------



## hiyu64

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> What range is your serial no, first 3 digits?


 

 165XX


----------



## hiyu64

Quote: 





solude said:


> The graph comes in the mail, snail mail not email.


 

 no, not the graph.  I mean the auto-reply they send you for confirmation purposes stating they received your registration information.  I did get the confirmation e-mail 10 minutes afterwards from sennheiser.com today, but  sennheiserUSA hasn't responded with anything after I uploaded my receipt and registration info yesterday.


----------



## Solude

I'm confused, why would they email you after confirming?


----------



## hiyu64

Quote: 





solude said:


> I'm confused, why would they email you after confirming?


 

 You know how when you register for a forum, buy something on amazon, or sign up for anything online they send you a confirmation email for you to keep in your email records? If they didn't do that, how do you know everything was processed correctly?  I'm not sure what is there to be confused about

 I registered my HD800 on the sennheiserUSA.com website yesterday and instead of receiving a quick automated "thanks for registering your sennheiser product" reply I got nothing, so I was very concerned.  I just submitted my registration of my $1K+ sennheiser product with a scan of my receipt/invoice with no knowledge if it went through or not.  If I happen to need repairs, what is there to stop them from saying "we have no records in our system that the headphones were registered to you, so we can't fix it for you"  I know the chance is small, but you gotta cover all the bases especially with something so expensive.  If you read their warranty conditions, they say the product is sold "as-is" and they hold all rights in determining if your headphones qualify for repairs.  
   
  This isn't just Sennheiser though.  Let me tell you something.  the "X year warranty" line in any consumer product means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING because right after it or in smaller print it usually says something to the extent of "we reserve the right to determine if your product has been misused or if it qualifies for repair"  There are so many shady companies out there that promise warranty, but determine your product to be "misused" and "doesn't qualify."
   
  The point is you have to make sure you're in the best position to receive the warranty.  I'm also writing to service@sennheiser.com to question whether refurbished products are indeed 2 years as well.  Conflicting opinions on this have been posted in the thread, so I'd rather email them and get a response for my records from a human representative.  
   
   
   
  The automated reply email from registering on the German sennheiser site had this in the end of the e-mail:
   
  "Important note: Please keep this e-mail carefully, because it confirms your
 claim for a warranty periode of 2 years after date of purchase. We
 recommend to print it out and keep it with your proof of purchase."
   
  That e on period was like that in the email
   
  This is an automated reply though for "New" HD800 from their original purchase date.    
 "Refurbished" was not offered as an option only "New" and "Used/Second Hand." 
   
  The problem is that "refurbished" is such a grey area between "Used" and "New"
  Hopefully, my email to sennheiser will clear some things up.  
   
   
  .


----------



## Solude

Ah, you registered twice.  Got you.


----------



## TooPoor

Someone convince me to keep my LCD2.2's. Out of the box I'm in love. Have to agree about the bass. Just awesome. Blown away. My fiance might not see me tonight.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Someone convince me to keep my LCD2.2's. Out of the box I'm in love. Have to agree about the bass. Just awesome. Blown away. My fiance might not see me tonight.


 
  Keep them so you dont get bored. I have three headphones that I use regular as a change of pace the lcd 2.2 is great headphone as well. keep them all. BUY BUY BUY more


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Someone convince me to keep my LCD2.2's. Out of the box I'm in love. Have to agree about the bass. Just awesome. Blown away. My fiance might not see me tonight.


 
  congrats! give them the love they deserve! Give them what they need and they will surely reciprocate. Ahmmmm... I mean the HD800, not your fiancé.


----------



## Solude

That's easy.  Sell the BiFrost and LCD-2... get a great DAC.


----------



## TooPoor

But I could return them and grab a better amp!!
   
   Oh no, not again. Not so soon!


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





solude said:


> That's easy.  Sell the BiFrost and LCD-2... get a great DAC.


 
  +1


----------



## TooPoor

I always thought the Lyr would be the biggest obstacle... Hmmm.
   
  One more pic. Decisions (not how they're stored)....


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> I appreciate the HD800's bass for its precision, but I still prefer the LCD-3's bass presentation. I don't find it loose or sloppy at all (with proper amping).


 
  I agree with you as well. And in relation, the LCD-3's bass is superior to the HD800s for impact, depth, precision and definition. The HD800s get the win for sound staging and sense of air. Owning both, you've got pretty much all of your bases covered IMO.


----------



## Maxvla

frank i said:


> Keep them so you dont get bored. I have three headphones that I use regular as a change of pace the lcd 2.2 is great headphone as well. keep them all. BUY BUY BUY more:tongue_smile:



Listening to the LCD-2s MAKES me bored. They are already gone. Sent back to Justin for store credit towards my GS-X


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Listening to the LCD-2s MAKES me bored. They are already gone. Sent back to Justin for store credit towards my GS-X


 
  to each his own.  I like variety and always have more than one flagship on board so they work for me. Especially with female vocals


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





frank i said:


> to each his own.  I like variety and always have more than one flagship on board so they work for me. Especially with female vocals


 
  And with rock and metal. Simply outstanding.


----------



## TooPoor

I literally just packed the LCD's up. Going to put the money towards a serious DAC. Is that possible under $1k to go w/ the Lyr until I can upgrade the amp?


----------



## Maxvla

frank i said:


> to each his own.  I like variety and always have more than one flagship on board so they work for me. Especially with female vocals



I also still have another flagship, the UERM


----------



## third_eye

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> I literally just packed the LCD's up. Going to put the money towards a serious DAC. Is that possible under $1k to go w/ the Lyr until I can upgrade the amp?


 
  As long as you don't need extra features. the Concero looks nice for well under $1k.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





>


 
   
  I only use IEM in the gym so I still prefer flu size headphones for listening. I use the hd800 mostly for classical  recordings but its my best headphone. I do like the lcd 2.2 for female vocals and other  genre but not classical music . When I want quiet I listen to the at3000anv. The other ones collect dust. I dont listen to portable stuff enough to justify spending more than my triple fi 10 which are fine for the gym.


----------



## TooPoor

Hmm the Concero is well within the budget... Any more recommendations? Highly prefer USB.


----------



## Girls Generation

Gungnir 
  Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Hmm the Concero is well within the budget... Any more recommendations? Highly prefer USB.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Gungnir
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I do love AKM DACs!


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I do love AKM DACs!


 
   
  I have a Stello DA100 which I've really loved and not upgraded since getting it more than 3 years ago which uses an AKM DAC... and it sometimes makes me wonder how Gungnir would compare... recognizing that the DAC Chip itself only plays a very small role in a DAC's sound of course.


----------



## longbowbbs

Definitely a starting point. I have always enjoyed them in my Denon gear and the HP-P1 uses them to great effect!


----------



## TooPoor

How does the PS Audio NuWave DAC sound with the Senn's? The Perfect Wave is just way out of my league....


----------



## Maxvla

Concero stomps all over the Gungnir IMO. If you don't need balanced it is the best value by far. If you do want balanced and a similar but better sound the Matrix X-Sabre is the one to get. ($1100) It will be publicly available in 2-3 weeks. I did not like the Perfectwave or the Nuwave.


----------



## Girls Generation

What are your genre and sound characteristic preferences?
  Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Concero stomps all over the Gungnir IMO. If you don't need balanced it is the best value by far. If you do want balanced and a similar but better sound the Matrix X-Sabre is the one to get. ($1100) It will be publicly available in 2-3 weeks. I did not like the Perfectwave or the Nuwave.


 
   
   
  Just ordered the HD800 new, will be receiving next week. I never liked the HD800 whenever I tried them at meets or at the local headphone shop. Maybe I'll think different if I give them a good go at home, just like with the LCD3.


----------



## TooPoor

I'm definitely going to look into the Concero. Looks great at the moment. I just don't have much experience with DACs so I'm limited to the Meridian Explorer and the Bifrost... hardly worthy of the HD800 is seems.


----------



## hiyu64

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Someone convince me to keep my LCD2.2's. Out of the box I'm in love. Have to agree about the bass. Just awesome. Blown away. My fiance might not see me tonight.


 
   
  My sentiments exactly. I really want to sell my LCD2.2 too and PS500(already on sale) and just build a rig around the HD800.  However, I also think it is too hasty to sell the LCD2.2s right now.  I'm reveling in my HD800 purchase right now and my bias is strong right now.  I think it'll take a week at least for things to settle down ,and I'll listen to the two for a couple of weeks and make the final decision in a month.  Even after the anax mod 2.0, the HD800 is still bright but just in the right amount.   Poorly recorded songs still sound bad just not wretched as they would sound with the stock HD800.  I was actually thinking of keeping the LCD2.2 to just use to smooth out and make poorly recorded songs more bearable, but that would really be a waste. 
   
  I think the HD800 has just the right amount of bass for me.  It really is a little subwoofer like and I think the soundstage helps with that a little.  Vocals have always been my #1 priority.  I've never really been a big bass fan, but the LCD2.2's bass does have more punch, depth, etc but a little too much for me so that it's really distracting.  Sometimes I feel like the LCD2.2's bass is too good and I get distracted from the vocals.  I also feel a little (nauseous/fatiguing/slight ear pain/I don't know what word to use) sometimes from all the compressed air blasted from LCD2.2, which is agitated by the suction cup feel of the leather earcups.   If the LCD3's bass is even better then I will most likely like them even less. 
   
  Hmm, I actually like the HD800 eq'd with a few dB up in the mids to bring the vocals a little more forward and I'm really liking it, but that's just me. 
  I've think found my sound signature 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Edit: The HD800 also gives me that nausea just much less pronounced than the LCD2.2.  It was pretty bad when I first got the LCD2.2, but I got used to it over time.  
 I really think it's the angled drivers that's throwing things off balance in my ears.  Anyone else feel this way?   
   
  Edit2: Oh yea the feeling I get may be somewhat comparable to being shot in the ear directly by a very weak mini air Air-Bazooka if you've ever seen/played with one. Its not really as bad as it sounds. I don't feel each "shot" directly, but it builds as you keep listening.  It's a very weird/uncomfortable feeling


----------



## Maxvla

girls generation said:


> What are your genre and sound characteristic preferences?
> 
> 
> Just ordered the HD800 new, will be receiving next week. I never liked the HD800 whenever I tried them at meets or at the local headphone shop. Maybe I'll think different if I give them a good go at home, just like with the LCD3.



I listen to sound not music, so I listen to just about anything. I lose brain cells if I listen to modern country though so I avoid that. I tend to like a brighter hyper detailed listening experience. The sound of the X-Sabre really doesn't sound bright at all, very natural yet still has that crazy detail.


----------



## Girls Generation

I think you're confusing _better_ with _quantity_. LCD3's bass seems to have better _quality,_ not _quantity_. What the LCD2 falls behind is everything sounds congested and like mush in comparison to the LCD3. Maybe that might help with concentrating on vocals. But if you don't like how the LCD2 grips your face, the LCD3's pads are squishier and you might not like them.
  Quote: 





hiyu64 said:


> My sentiments exactly. I really want to sell my LCD2.2 too and PS500(already on sale) and just build a rig around the HD800.  However, I also think it is too hasty to sell the LCD2.2s right now.  I'm reveling in my HD800 purchase right now and my bias is strong right now.  I think it'll take a week at least for things to settle down ,and I'll listen to the two for a couple of weeks and make the final decision in a month.  Even after the anax mod 2.0, the HD800 is still bright but just in the right amount.   Poorly recorded songs still sound bad just not wretched as they would sound with the stock HD800.  I was actually thinking of keeping the LCD2.2 to just use to smooth out and make poorly recorded songs more bearable, but that would really be a waste.
> 
> I think the HD800 has just the right amount of bass for me.  It really is a little subwoofer like and I think the soundstage helps with that a little.  Vocals have always been my #1 priority.  I've never really been a big bass fan, but the LCD2.2's bass does have more punch, depth, etc but a little too much for me so that it's really distracting.  Sometimes I feel like the LCD2.2's bass is too good and I get distracted from the vocals.  I also feel a little (nauseous/fatiguing/slight ear pain/I don't know what word to use) sometimes from all the compressed air blasted from LCD2.2, which is agitated by the suction cup feel of the leather earcups.   If the LCD3's bass is even better then I will most likely like them even less.
> 
> ...


----------



## hiyu64

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> I think you're confusing _better_ with _quantity_. LCD3's bass seems to have better _quality,_ not _quantity_. What the LCD2 falls behind is everything sounds congested and like mush in comparison to the LCD3. Maybe that might help with concentrating on vocals. But if you don't like how the LCD2 grips your face, the LCD3's pads are squishier and you might not like them.


 

 Maybe you're right, I was typing too fast and was thinking of quantity not quality.  I might actually like the LCD3s more if there was less congestion.  The only problem is the big fat price tag on those.  I got a pretty good deal on the LCD2.2s brand new at $865 and the HD800 refurbished at $1100.  To me, the real worth of the LCD2.2 should be $800-850 for its sonic improvements.   The HD800 is worth $1150 -$1250.  I really don't want to take a bite at the diminishing returns cake at $1945 on the LCD3


----------



## Girls Generation

Might let mine go soon, after my HD800s arrive and I assess the three.
   
  "Value" can be vastly different for different people so it's unfair to label something's worth definitively, though everyone is free to opine. 
  Quote: 





hiyu64 said:


> Maybe you're right, I was typing too fast and was thinking of quantity not quality.  I might actually like the LCD3s more if there was less congestion.  The only problem is the big fat price tag on those.  I got a pretty good deal on the LCD2.2s brand new at $865 and the HD800 refurbished at $1100.  To me, the real worth of the LCD2.2 should be $800-850 for its sonic improvements.   The HD800 is worth $1150 -$1250.  I really don't want to take a bite at the diminishing returns cake at $1945 on the LCD3


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> *Gungnir*
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Should never be the default answer when a suitable DAC is needed for the HD800.
   
  @Toopoor - I'd suggest investing in an amp first. The Lyr is more of a bottleneck for the HD800 than the Bifrost. The Bifrost should tide you over until you can accommodate a better DAC than the Gungnir.


----------



## ceausuc

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Hmm the Concero is well within the budget... Any more recommendations? Highly prefer USB.


 
   

 For ~600$ I would go with AGD NFB1.32. Looks better than the Concero and has a very good USB input. To me it looks better even than the new Matrix...


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I agree with you as well. And in relation, the LCD-3's bass is superior to the HD800s for impact, depth, precision and definition. The HD800s get the win for sound staging and sense of air. Owning both, you've got pretty much all of your bases covered IMO.


 
   
  See my other pairs I'd agree.  But behind my current rig, which is what I had the LCD-3 with, the HD800 has much greater impact, precision and definition.  The LCD-3 bass was always kind of laid back.  Not sure what you mean by depth?  Layers?  Deep bass? Staging depth?  My HD800 certainly shakes the head more than the LCD-3 I had.  Movie watching with the HD800 is mind blowing


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





hiyu64 said:


> Maybe you're right, I was typing too fast and was thinking of quantity not quality.  I might actually like the LCD3s more if there was less congestion.  The only problem is the big fat price tag on those.  I got a pretty good deal on the LCD2.2s brand new at $865 and the HD800 refurbished at $1100.  To me, the real worth of the LCD2.2 should be $800-850 for its sonic improvements.   The HD800 is worth $1150 -$1250.  I really don't want to take a bite at the diminishing returns cake at $1945 on the LCD3


 
  For a working Man/woman, LDC-3s are a ripoff for their priceerformance ratio. IF you have deep pockets though and it is worth to you -- enjoy.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





solude said:


> See my other pairs I'd agree.  But behind my current rig, which is what I had the LCD-3 with, the HD800 has much greater impact, precision and definition.  The LCD-3 bass was always kind of laid back.  Not sure what you mean by depth?  Layers?  Deep bass? Staging depth?  My HD800 certainly shakes the head more than the LCD-3 I had.  Movie watching with the HD800 is mind blowing


 
  +1


----------



## kazsud

Sometimes I feel like my hd800s are fine while other times I think there is no bass w/ no signs of life. This had me wondering if the L & R wires were mis-matched so I swapped them and walla more bass and everything seemed more sharp but the sound stage was a little weird which I couldn't tell if it was correct or not. Also it shorted in the L side so I swapped them back to how they were before. When I get home from work I will hook them to my computer and mess w/ the balance to see if they are backwards.
   
  Could my wire ends be labeled wrong?


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> For a working Man/woman, LDC-3s are a ripoff for their priceerformance ratio. IF you have deep pockets though and it is worth to you -- enjoy.


 
  Gee thanks for the super enlightening post. We all really learned a lot. How about letting the individual decide if they are a rip-off for themselves? The LCD-3 definitely hasn't exceeded all my expectations for it, but that doesn't mean it's a rip-off. Not even close. Keep in mind theres lurkers on these forums that take everything you say at face value.
   
  In other news, I'm looking forward to trying a pair 800s. All this talk of the newer models having more bass has me very interested.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





solude said:


> See my other pairs I'd agree.  But behind my current rig, which is what I had the LCD-3 with, the HD800 has much greater impact, precision and definition.  The LCD-3 bass was always kind of laid back.  Not sure what you mean by depth?  Layers?  Deep bass? Staging depth?  My HD800 certainly shakes the head more than the LCD-3 I had.  Movie watching with the HD800 is mind blowing


 
   
  This does not match my experience. The HD800's bass is precise and deep, but with limited "head shake" or impact. The LCD-3 has a visceral quality that the HD800 doesn't come close to approaching.
   
  I've come to accept that there's a degree of production variance in both models -- moderate in the Senns, high in the LCD-3 -- so this difference of opinion is not really surprising.


----------



## Solude

To be fair even those who love the LCD-3 consider it a steep price for what is a correction to the LCD-2 Rev2 performance not a whole other level.  Suffice to say they aren't alone in being poor value.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

True, but isnt that how evolving technology and markets work? In 5 years there may be an LCD-3 equivalent phone for $1000 less. But there will be greater technology then selling for the same $1950. Should we be buying all our gear on a 5 year lag? Wouldn't that be the only way not to get squeezed on the price?


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





solude said:


> To be fair even those who love the LCD-3 consider it a steep price for what is a correction to the LCD-2 Rev2 performance not a whole other level.  Suffice to say they aren't alone in being poor value.


 
   
  It is a steep price increase, but well worth it IMO. The LCD-3 fixes every issue I had with the LCD-2.2 (except soundstage, which is improved but not truly fixed). Others have shown that they feel differently about the LCD-3's price-to-performance ratio, which is fine.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





uncle00jesse said:


> Gee thanks for the super enlightening post. We all really learned a lot. How about letting the individual decide if they are a rip-off for themselves? The LCD-3 definitely hasn't exceeded all my expectations for it, but that doesn't mean it's a rip-off. Not even close. Keep in mind theres lurkers on these forums that take everything you say at face value.
> 
> In other news, I'm looking forward to trying a pair 800s. All this talk of the newer models having more bass has me very interested.


 
  Sorry. Did not mean to offend anyone. You're right, I probably should measure my words a bit more. That's how I felt though when I heard LCD-3. Sorry. I was not attacking fans of LCD-3. IF that's how I came off, my sincere apologies.
   
  I also suspect, that the type of music you listen to has a lot to do with it. From what I have seen, LCD-3 is a rock fan's HP. I listen to little rock, some Pink Floyd and Zep, Hendrix, Radiohead but that's about it. For my music and the way I listen, detail and sound stage are most valued. I think these are LCD-3 weak points (relatively speaking).  Compared to HD800, the price you pay for the performance is off, in my book. Just my opinion.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

No worries, thank you for clarifying. Posts like that make someone looking at it going, okay I won't even touch those now.. Then they go off and get an HD-800 and LCD-2, maybe switch over to an HE-500 or 6. But in the end they'll go back to the lcd-3 because it's perfect for them. But in the process they will have wasted many thousands. It really comes down to the need for each individual to try before you buy. We all know thats not necessarily easy in this hobby


----------



## Girls Generation

Quote: 





uncle00jesse said:


> Gee thanks for the super enlightening post. We all really learned a lot. How about letting the individual decide if they are a rip-off for themselves? The LCD-3 definitely hasn't exceeded all my expectations for it, but that doesn't mean it's a rip-off. Not even close. Keep in mind theres lurkers on these forums that take everything you say at face value.
> 
> In other news, I'm looking forward to trying a pair 800s. All this talk of the newer models having more bass has me very interested.


 
  FWIW I personally find the LCD3 a huge rip off.  Couldn't care less if people don't get them, that's probably better for these certain people since it seems like people get $2000 headphones with $400 amps and dacs.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote:  





> since it seems like people get $2000 headphones with $400 amps and dacs.


 
  As if getting a 400$ or more amp, wasn't a ripp off either


----------



## preproman

This thread just:


----------



## TooPoor

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> FWIW I personally find the LCD3 a huge rip off.  Couldn't care less if people don't get them, that's probably better for these certain people since it seems like people get $2000 headphones with $400 amps and dacs.


 

  Don't believe this is directed at me, but I never intended to get the HD800s when I got my Lyr/Bifrost. I've been talking to Cory @ SWA about a balanced setup for them at the moment. I look forward to putting together a rig for the HD800. Preproman, any advice as you seem to be a fan of these amps!


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Don't believe this is directed at me, but I never intended to get the HD800s when I got my Lyr/Bifrost. I've been talking to Cory @ SWA about a balanced setup for them at the moment. I look forward to putting together a rig for the HD800. Preproman, any advice as you seem to be a fan of these amps!


 
   
  A fan of what amps?  Schiit?  No not really.  
   
  However, working with SWA your on the right track indeed.  One of the best.  Anything that leaves out his door is nothing less than perfect.  I'm working with him now as well on a project.
   
  If I were you - I'd ask him to build you a balanced M^3 with the ADA4627-1 op amps.  Now he might suggest you use the AD8597, their good as well.  I like the punch and attack the ADA gives...


----------



## TooPoor

No, the SWA amps... not the Schiit.
   
  Thanks for the advice. Appreciated.


----------



## JWahl

Finally joined the HD-800 club after much procrastination and trying other flagships.  Even after only a few hours of listening I think it's safe to say this is my new favorite, after previously owning a Beyer T1, R1 LCD-2, HE-6, and currently also owning an ATH-AD2000X.  I did do a smidge of eq to tame the sibilance but I'll probably try the Anaxilus mod later on.  Very, very satisfied so far and I can totally understand why people build entire systems around this headphone.  
   
  And I think what shocked me the most is the outstanding quality of the bass, despite many saying it's bass light.  Ironically when I first heard them at a meet, I thought they were boring and wrote them off, and they were hooked up balanced to far more expensive equipment than I'm using now.  Beside's the slight sibilance without eq this is about as close to my ideal headphone as I think I'm going to get.
   
  Alright I'm done gushing.  Of course, this all could just be new toy syndrome.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





jwahl said:


> Finally joined the HD-800 club after much procrastination and trying other flagships.  Even after only a few hours of listening I think it's safe to say this is my new favorite, after previously owning a Beyer T1, R1 LCD-2, HE-6, and currently also owning an ATH-AD2000X.  I did do a smidge of eq to tame the sibilance but I'll probably try the Anaxilus mod later on.  Very, very satisfied so far and I can totally understand why people build entire systems around this headphone.
> 
> And I think what shocked me the most is the outstanding quality of the bass, despite many saying it's bass light.  Ironically when I first heard them at a meet, I thought they were boring and wrote them off, and they were hooked up balanced to far more expensive equipment than I'm using now.  Beside's the slight sibilance without eq this is about as close to my ideal headphone as I think I'm going to get.
> 
> Alright I'm done gushing.  Of course, this all could just be new toy syndrome.


 
  Welcome to the club.....
  Brand new,& already thinking of modding them-why?
  Sibilance???..might need a bit of breakin?
   
  I've trimmed down most of my collection of.."stuff",but definetly keeping the HD800's,& the Maddogs


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





jwahl said:


> Finally joined the HD-800 club after much procrastination and trying other flagships.  Even after only a few hours of listening I think it's safe to say this is my new favorite, after previously owning a Beyer T1, R1 LCD-2, HE-6, and currently also owning an ATH-AD2000X.  I did do a smidge of eq to tame the sibilance but I'll probably try the Anaxilus mod later on.  Very, very satisfied so far and I can totally understand why people build entire systems around this headphone.
> 
> And I think what shocked me the most is the outstanding quality of the bass, despite many saying it's bass light.  Ironically when I first heard them at a meet, I thought they were boring and wrote them off, and they were hooked up balanced to far more expensive equipment than I'm using now.  Beside's the slight sibilance without eq this is about as close to my ideal headphone as I think I'm going to get.
> 
> Alright I'm done gushing.  Of course, this all could just be new toy syndrome.


 
   
   
  Ha ha ha JWahl man you got a new favorite every time you get a new headphone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Give me a blow by blow against the AD2KX..  Please..


----------



## BournePerfect

Lol at the rediscovered bass posts. _Psst-it was always there!_ 

-Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

preproman said:


> Ha ha ha JWahl man you got a new favorite every time you get a new headphone. :wink_face:    Give me a blow by blow against the AD2KX..  Please..




Yeah but this time he's probably right. 

-Daniel


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Lol at the rediscovered bass posts. _Psst-it was always there!_
> 
> -Daniel


 
  Lies. All lies. Psst.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Welcome to the club.....
> Brand new,& already thinking of modding them-why?
> Sibilance???..might need a bit of breakin?
> 
> I've trimmed down most of my collection of.."stuff",but definetly keeping the HD800's,& the Maddogs


 
   
  I'm soon to follow suit.  I'll probably sell both my HE-6 and LCD-3.  I'll probably keep my HD650 and ESP-950 though as the HD650 was purchased used and already had the paint chipping issues - lowering the resale value, and the ESP-950 has the whole life-time warranty.  It makes for a nice change of pace.


----------



## TooPoor

LCD2s went back today... Will be missed. Thinking of trying the HE-6 w/ speaker amp for my next rig. Now I just need to figure out if I should get a new amp or a new DAC first for the HD800....


----------



## TooPoor

Double post


----------



## BournePerfect

Upgrade that Lyr first-that's the biggest bottleneck in your rig imo..

-Daniel


----------



## TooPoor

Yeah waiting for some quotes on a balanced M^3


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Yeah waiting for some quotes on a balanced M^3


 
   






  you can get multiple sets of op amp for rolling as well.


----------



## Solude

Balanced M3 and a BiFrost... something might be hard to plug in


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





preproman said:


> you can get multiple sets of op amp for rolling as well.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Yeah waiting for some quotes on a balanced M^3


 
   
   
  Oh DAYUM..  Your going to need a balanced source...  Ask if you can get SE inputs as well.


----------



## TooPoor

Well I'll use the schiit stack until I get a new amp and DAC... In no rush at the moment.


----------



## TooPoor

Or that... Touché. Shouldn't be an issue, correct?


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Welcome to the club.....
> Brand new,& already thinking of modding them-why?
> Sibilance???..might need a bit of breakin?
> 
> I've trimmed down most of my collection of.."stuff",but definetly keeping the HD800's,& the Maddogs


 
   
  Shouldn't be breakin in by now.  I bought them used they are in the serial number 99xx range.  And I'm only cutting about 2db at 6khz and 1db at 10khz as of right now.
   
  Quote: 





preproman said:


> Ha ha ha JWahl man you got a new favorite every time you get a new headphone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Yeah but this time he's probably right.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Haha, I guess I can see why it would seem that way but to be fair, these last three purchases have been in increasing price brackets, from K702 65th to AD2000X to HD-800 and I feel the improvement with each has been somewhat linear, factoring in diminishing returns.  And I think my several month Hiatus between my previous 3 flagships sort of "reset" my ears so to speak, hence, each purchase sounding progressively more impressive.  And I can only go off of distant memory for my older flagships.  I can't descriptively compare them by memory, only memory of how I enjoyed them in their respective setups.
   
  And honestly I didn't expect to be _that_ impressed since I wasn't when I heard them at a meet but I figured I'd give them a chance in my own home and I'm sure glad I did.
   
  As far as comparison to the AD2000X.  I'm still very impressed with it in it's price bracket since I paid about $579 for it new.  The HD-800 just takes it to the next level all around.  I'm very surprised the HD800 doesn't sacrifice the sense of pace and timing that I like from the AD2000X. Not that I thought it would do poorly but I thought the AD2000X would exceed it there but I was wrong.  Bass quantity and quality is also much better on the HD-800.  I do find the HD-800 heavier though than the feather-light AD2000X, but it's still pretty comfortable.  
   
  The AD2000X is much more closer sounding and intimate in comparison but that is to be expected given their design.  The AD2000X midbass while punchy doesn't seem as precise as the HD800.  I don't find the HD800 to be overly analytical at all but still very accurate and musical, at least in my setup, again I can only compare from the perspective of what I've owned mostly.  I'm sure my amp contributes some, it's from Audio-GD's "musical" SA series and according to Kingwa, the topology is supposed to be based on an Accuphase amp so take it FWIW.
   
  Of course I could just have a lucky synergy with the equipment I already own.  I can try to give more impressions later, I'm finding it difficult to passively listen and formulate cohesive writing at the same time


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





solude said:


> See my other pairs I'd agree.  But behind my current rig, which is what I had the LCD-3 with, the HD800 has much greater impact, precision and definition.  The LCD-3 bass was always kind of laid back.  Not sure what you mean by depth?  Layers?  Deep bass? Staging depth?  My HD800 certainly shakes the head more than the LCD-3 I had.  Movie watching with the HD800 is mind blowing


 
  The bass on the LCD-3s extend lower and have better layering (not by much though) and slam harder. I agree I wouldn't call the HD800's bass lite either. Staging, air go to the HD800s. As I mentioned, between both, one would have pretty much all their musical bases covered.


----------



## Girls Generation

My previous post wasn't directed at anyone, just in general, that $2000 headphones with low-fi amp/dac pairing is a bit unbalanced and you'll probably end up disappointed. If you're going to spend $3000 you might as well spend $1000 on headphones, and $2000 on gear, not $2000 on headphones, and $1000 on gear...
   
  Anywho... I'll be getting in a new S/N 20xxx + HD800 to draw comparisons with a 2013 LCD3, and an LCD2 rev2.2. I've always heard the HD800 whenever I visited the local headphone shop and meets, even tried with a fully burned in Mjo/Gung, and I've always passed it off as having a weird soundstage and lacking bass. When I get home to Vancouver I'll try to compare the one in store with mine and actually see if there is any notable difference.


----------



## JWahl

BournePerfect,
   
  Would you say it's a pretty decent jump from your C2-SA to the Zana Deux SE with the HD800 synergy-wise?  The C2-SA should at least be somewhat similar in signature to my SA-31.  I'm not dissatisfied with my current setup but I can't help but be curious of what these things are really capable of.  Of course at that price range I'd probably go for something like the DNA Stratus.  Maybe a Sonett 2 is more realistic for my future budget though.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> $2000 headphones with low-fi amp/dac pairing is a bit unbalanced and you'll probably end up disappointed. If you're going to spend $3000 you might as well spend $1000 on headphones, and $2000 on gear, not $2000 on headphones, and $1000 on gear...


 
   
  I believe the complete opposite.
   
  The transducer is the most important link in the audio chain. It's where the rubber meets the road.
   
  I wouldn't think twice about pairing $2000 headphones with a $500 amp/DAC (assuming the headphones are sufficiently sensitive and the amp has sufficient power).


----------



## jackskelly

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I believe the complete opposite.
> 
> The transducer is the most important link in the audio chain. It's where the rubber meets the road.
> 
> I wouldn't think twice about pairing $2000 headphones with a $500 amp/DAC (assuming the headphones are sufficiently sensitive and the amp has sufficient power).


 
   
  Yeah, from what I've heard, what really matters the most is how does the sound go in, and how does it come out (as the two most important links in the chain).


----------



## Girls Generation

But the problem is, is buying $2000 headphones a smart decision if you're budget is limited to $3000? Between $1000 and $2000 headphones, the difference isn't that great, take the LCD3 and TH900 for example. Why not spend money where it'll give you _less_ diminishing returns and better overall performance? Transducer isn't the whole story, but rather it's best to balance out the equipment for maximum performance. I'm assuming said person has a limited $3000 budget.
   
  Would you say the GPU is the most important link in a $3000 computer chain, so you get a 2way SLI GTX690, and build the rest with mid-fi equipment like i5 3570K? What's the point? They'll provide minimal improvements, and just be bottlenecked by the rest of the computer.
   
   
  Sorry to derail the thread. Back on track with HD800, I'm having high hopes for these... high hopes that it'll convince me to get rid of the LCD2/3 so I can save some money...
  Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I believe the complete opposite.
> 
> The transducer is the most important link in the audio chain. It's where the rubber meets the road.
> 
> I wouldn't think twice about pairing $2000 headphones with a $500 amp/DAC (assuming the headphones are sufficiently sensitive and the amp has sufficient power).


----------



## palmfish

Well, we have no control over how the sound goes in - that's done in the recording studio. The most control we wield over what we hear is through the headphones we choose (and EQ).


----------



## Girls Generation

What goes in is also how the DAC performs...
  Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Well, we have no control over how the sound goes in - that's done in the recording studio. The most control we wield over what we hear is through the headphones we choose (and EQ).


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Well, we have no control over how the sound goes in - that's done in the recording studio. The most control we wield over what we hear is through the headphones we choose (and EQ).


 
  But upstream gear does affect what happened in the recording studio! Poor DACs can really cloud things and amps that don't have a grasp of the drivers (and in a linear fashion) can impart their own characteristics on what happened in the studio.
   
  Back to your "where the wheels hit the road", I agree that the transducers are the most important part of the chain, but the amp (and the ability to move and control those drivers) and the dac/source are also key parts of the chain.


----------



## bearFNF

The key is to decide what you want out of it , set what your budget is, and balance the components of your rig accordingly.


----------



## BournePerfect

jwahl said:


> BournePerfect,
> 
> Would you say it's a pretty decent jump from your C2-SA to the Zana Deux SE with the HD800 synergy-wise?  The C2-SA should at least be somewhat similar in signature to my SA-31.  I'm not dissatisfied with my current setup but I can't help but be curious of what these things are really capable of.  Of course at that price range I'd probably go for something like the DNA Stratus.  Maybe a Sonett 2 is more realistic for my future budget though.




Sorry I believe I got rid of the C2 SA around the same time I bought my first pair off HD800s, so I never got to hear that pairing. OTOH I REALLY REALLY wanted to hear that pairing because I thought it would be sublime. A very musical and smooth amp with great detail and black background. Not the most neutral amp per se, but I always felt it would pair really well with the Senn. In fact it's still the best ss amp I've heard for under a grand. It was by far the absolute best I ever heard with both the AD2000 and the T1, thanks to it's high current and voltage output for an ss amp. In fact I still miss it, and would probably snatch it up in a second if possible. I'm sure it wouldn't reach the Zana's level of performance, but I still consider it the biggest bang for the buck product I've had in this hobby. Too bad Kingwa discontinued it before it ever really got started. That said, I've often wondered how your SA amp compares to it...

-Daniel

edit: Jwahl I just realized you're the guy I sold my SA-1 dac to. Gotta admit I'm a big fan of Kingwa's SA series products! My old Reference 9/C-2 SA combo still haunts me from time to time as that was the most 'musical' rig I've ever heard in my life when paired with an AD2K...


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Sorry I believe I got rid of the C2 SA around the same time I bought my first pair off HD800s, so I never got to hear that pairing. OTOH I REALLY REALLY wanted to hear that pairing because I thought it would be sublime. A very musical and smooth amp with great detail and black background. Not the most neutral amp per se, but I always felt it would pair really well with the Senn. In fact it's still the best ss amp I've heard for under a grand. It was by far the absolute best I ever heard with both the AD2000 and the T1, thanks to it's high current and voltage output for an ss amp. In fact I still miss it, and would probably snatch it up in a second if possible. I'm sure it wouldn't reach the Zana's level of performance, but I still consider it the biggest bang for the buck product I've had in this hobby. Too bad Kingwa discontinued it before it ever really got started. That said, I've often wondered how your SA amp compares to it...
> 
> -Daniel


 
  Hmmm, If I ever get another amp to use the down the road I could probably do a loaner to you of my SA-31 to get some exposure for it.  Your opinion and experience probably carries a little more weight here than mine.  Though it's good to hear at least I'm probably not crazy for thinking I hear a good synergy with the HD-800.  Especially since I paid all of $400 for it used.


----------



## BournePerfect

Jwahl check my last edit...


Also, synergy counts for everything in my book. I still miss my old SA rig if for no other reason than it let me focus on the music more than anything, and sublimely toe-tapping at that. I've actually been debating a highend ss amp for a while, and must admit I'd probably lean towards the SA-31 more than the Master 8 (price not a concern either) since I feel it might be more synergistic with the HD 800 although surely not as revealing I'd imagine. 

I should add that I felt the C2 SA wasn't the last word in bass impact, but the Reference 9 balanced that out at the time with it's abundant bass qualities imo...do you feel the SA 31 has adequate bass impact with the Senn? That would be my only concern, not knowing that amp's strengths.

-Daniel


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Jwahl check my last edit...
> 
> 
> Also, synergy counts for everything in my book. I still miss my old SA rig if for no other reason than it let me focus on the music more than anything, and sublimely toe-tapping at that. I've actually been debating a highend ss amp for a while, and must admit I'd probably lean towards the SA-31 more than the Master 8 (price not a concern either) since I feel it might be more synergistic with the HD 800 although surely not as revealing I'd imagine.
> ...


 
   
  Ah, yes.  I should have specified I was the one who bought your SA-1.  Though I eventually sold it and my HE-6 when I had to scrap my setup at the time for financial reasons.  I've been slowly building back up now.  Well given that I haven't heard this HD-800 with any other gear I feel the bass is pretty satisfying.  There are some tracks where maybe I could use slightly more low bass impact but It's not enough to feel like it's detracting from the music.  
   
  It's certainly more and better quality bass than the AD2000X.  The Concero i'm using now is on paper, essentially a high end usb converter married to an all-in-one "DAC on chip" as in the output stage is in the actual DAC chip itself.  Despite that, it's sound is surprisingly high quality for what it is and the upsampling filter options are a nice touch.  And I like that when I decide to get another DAC, I can retain it as a USB converter and use the upsampling filters inline to the other DAC.


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> What are your genre and sound characteristic preferences?
> 
> 
> Just ordered the HD800 new, will be receiving next week. I never liked the HD800 whenever I tried them at meets or at the local headphone shop. Maybe I'll think different if I give them a good go at home, just like with the LCD3.


 
  You might not like the HD800 as much as LCD3 on gung/mjoln; but the HD800 is the better headphone with the proper equipment in my opinion


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I believe the complete opposite.
> 
> The transducer is the most important link in the audio chain.


 
   
  This comes down to the transducer in question.  The LCD-2/3 change depending on up stream gear but still sound like LCDs at the end of the day.  They just aren't hard loads and don't scale very well.  The HD800 is a whole other animal.  It sound wildly different with different upstream gear and scales very high.  It's the reason people who like the LCD series don't tend to hate it on everything and then eureka.  And vice versa the HD800 is disliked by a ton of people until they hear it a something that gels well with it and then... eureka 
   
  Case and point I've liked the LCD-2 Rev1, Rev2 and LCD-3 on pretty much everything using gear to fine tune.  I hated my first two pairs of HD800 on the rigs I had at the time.  Love this one.  Value wise the rigs aren't that far apart, certainly miles from $1000 point, but only this rig makes the HD800 something I would use.  Correction, I love it and the LCDs are gone.  Something I never would even considered on the other two rigs.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> You might not like the HD800 as much as LCD3 on gung/mjoln; but the HD800 is the better headphone with the proper equipment in my opinion


 
  +1. I heard that combo with my HD800 and thought it lacked bass. On the other hand, I also heard LCD2 out of that rig and actually preferred it, and I am no fan of Audezee presentation.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> +1. I heard that combo with my HD800 and thought it lacked bass. On the other hand, I also heard LCD2 out of that rig and actually preferred it, and I am no fan of Audezee presentation.


 
   
  Agreed ..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'm no fan of the M/G stack - unless a LCD is at the other end..


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> But upstream gear does affect what happened in the recording studio! Poor DACs can really cloud things and amps that don't have a grasp of the drivers (and in a linear fashion) can impart their own characteristics on what happened in the studio.
> 
> Back to your "where the wheels hit the road", I agree that the transducers are the most important part of the chain, but the amp (and the ability to move and control those drivers) and the dac/source are also key parts of the chain.


 

 I agree with you mostly, but I don't believe that there are many "poor DACs" out there. If you research and shop wisely, you can find a number of DACs that decode accurately and "do no harm" that are very affordable. Same with amps - well engineered and sufficiently powerful amps dont have to cost a lot.
   
  I think the law of diminishing returns applies to upstream gear to a much greater degree than it does to headphones. That's my point in a nutshell.


----------



## Pudu

palmfish said:


> ...
> I think the law of diminishing returns applies to upstream gear to a much greater degree than it does to headphones. That's my point in a nutshell.




Agree. That's where I'm at too.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well then, what would be the Schiit stack equivalent for the HD800? Which amps and dacs around $1000-1500 have great synergy together with the Sennheiser?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> Well then, what would be the Schiit stack equivalent for the HD800? Which amps and dacs around $1000-1500 have great synergy together with the Sennheiser?


 
   
  Well if price is an object it's going to be really hard to beat anything Schiit puts out.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah, but no point in saving money when it's going to lack bass. I meant priced each. Say up to $2000 each for an amp and dac, what gives a great sound out of the HD800? Is there a major quality lost compared to really expensive equipment?
   
  I'm trying to get a list of good pairings but reading this thread I see great amps and dacs pairings mentioned sporadically.


----------



## palmfish

devarika woulf said:


> Yeah, but no point in saving money when it's going to lack bass. I meant priced each. Say up to $2000 each for an amp and dac, what gives a great sound out of the HD800? Is there a major quality lost compared to really expensive equipment?
> 
> I'm trying to get a list of good pairings but reading this thread I see great amps and dacs pairings mentioned sporadically.




Your signature says you have a V200. Is that a Violectric V200? If so, then you already have an excellent headphone amp.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> Yeah, but no point in saving money when it's going to lack bass. I meant priced each. Say up to $2000 each for an amp and dac, what gives a great sound out of the HD800? Is there a major quality lost compared to really expensive equipment?
> 
> I'm trying to get a list of good pairings but reading this thread* I see great amps and dacs pairings mentioned sporadically.*


 
   
  That's because it's a lot to pick from.  Also ones preference comes into play.  For me the PWD2, Buffalo III and the M51 (DACS) have worked pretty well on all amps I've tried them on so far. As far as amps goes.  I think I'm entering into the rabbit hole right now.  The search is still on.
   
  Right now I enjoy the HD800s out of my B22 and M^3.  The GS-X is coming (soon).  I was also thinking about a tube amp (EC 2A3 or DNA Stratus).  Other amps are coming out as well ie.. Schiit Statement, CA LAu.  Also building the SuperSymmetry balanced Dynahi is still on the books.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> Yeah, but no point in saving money when it's going to lack bass. I meant priced each. Say up to $2000 each for an amp and dac, what gives a great sound out of the HD800? Is there a major quality lost compared to really expensive equipment?
> 
> I'm trying to get a list of good pairings but reading this thread I see great amps and dacs pairings mentioned sporadically.


 
   
  My HD800's sound stunning out of my Audio-gd NFB-7 DAC and Master-6 amp and they are not even running balanced yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  And that's with rock and metal, which is supposed to be it's weak genre's.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Really happy with Decware for the amp. The CSP2+ is a great HD800 amp and the new Taboo MK III is another great choice. For me the Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 has good solid bass.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Your signature says you have a V200. Is that a Violectric V200? If so, then you already have an excellent headphone amp.


 
   
  Yes it is. I am just learning that it is good with the HD800. I had figured it wasn't expensive enough but that was wrong.
   
  Thank you for all your suggestions. I am always looking at people's signatures, seeing which amp and dac they use together, and that helps me a lot, and this will too. I will have to look, pick and choose should I get an HD800. My LCD-2 R.2 is lovely but the cramped soundstage is getting to me...thinking about something different. Am looking at an LCD-3 too but all this recent thrashing compared to the Sennheiser has discouraged me a little, along with the newly positive opinions on the 800's bass. I will have to think but maybe it's time to - wait for it - join the HD800 club. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The signature I prefer is analogue and on the warmer side...HD800 is not known for being warm. My best bet would be to sell my LCD-2, get the HD800, and if the Rega is no good for it, sell it and purchase a different dac, something that would pair well with another amp should I upgrade my V200 to something better. I will be following this thread and seeing how new equipment like the X-Sabre and GS-X pairs. I think I am getting a better understanding of this crazy headphone game.


----------



## olor1n

I found the Schiit stack ultimately inadequate for the HD800. Bass however, is one of that combo's main strengths.

The Gungnir is the bottleneck in that chain. It has a slight etch in the upper registers and lacks finesse in terms of dynamics. Couple that with the energetic Mjolnir and you have a Grado-like illusion that impresses on initial listen but grating in the long haul.

The Mjolnir is quite adequate for the HD800 IMO. Reports of stridency are off the mark. Rolling DACs has confirmed that it is quite transparent and any issues with presentation can be remedied by addressing upstream components.


----------



## Girls Generation

There may not be "poor" DACs per se, but there are many _better _DACs that opens up potential on the headphone end. Further, power isn't everything to amps. And synergy is another factor.
   
  I agree with your second point, but the problem here is, you're spending money on $2000 headphones that will give you great diminishing returns, and in the end, your audio chain is going to put out worse sound than if you were to spread that extra $1000 out into your other gear. Why would you intentionally bottleneck yourself when you can have $1000 cans that are only minimally inferior to $2000 cans, and drive that to its [near]maximum potential?
  Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I agree with you mostly, but I don't believe that there are many "poor DACs" out there. If you research and shop wisely, you can find a number of DACs that decode accurately and "do no harm" that are very affordable. Same with amps - well engineered and sufficiently powerful amps dont have to cost a lot.
> 
> I think the law of diminishing returns applies to upstream gear to a much greater degree than it does to headphones. That's my point in a nutshell.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> Yeah, but no point in saving money when it's going to lack bass. I meant priced each. Say up to $2000 each for an amp and dac, what gives a great sound out of the HD800? Is there a major quality lost compared to really expensive equipment?
> 
> I'm trying to get a list of good pairings but reading this thread I see great amps and dacs pairings mentioned sporadically.


 

 I am thinking of selling my Sonett and/or my SPL Phonitor -- both excellent parings with the HD800. If anyone is interested PM me.


----------



## preproman

I'm not to much of a fan of the Mjolnir/HD800 with any of the DACs I heard.  
   
  The amp is just to forward for me.  IMO it's best with LCDs.  Also IMO the HD800 needs a more musical amp that's not so forward.  I hear the Soloist and V200 is like this.  I know the B22 and the M^3 is.  The BHA-1 sits right in the middle.  Still have to hear the GS-X v2.


----------



## paradoxper

I have found the Schiit stack to be very fun with the HD800 even. The forwardness should be too much, but somehow I find
  the HD800's just sound exceptional.
   
  Switching in the M51 for Gungnir brings much more coherence and clarity while being smoother and more balanced.
  NAD retains a certain musicality I've come to really enjoy.
   
  Comparatively the Gungnir is the cause of fatigue (grating) overall.
   
  One of the other DACs I've been using has been the W4S which is the complete opposite in synergy.
  Very cold and lifeless sounding.
   
  Makes for a hard choice, upgrade to the NAD or hold out a little while longer.
   
  olo1n, you were right, the firmware made quite the difference.
   
  Eats crow. Me so hungry, preproman.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

para - would you say that switching in the nad for the lcd-3 will have the same effect as you say it does with the HD800? i find the gungnir great, has a tremedous amount of kick and bite, but the high-end with some music can be as you say 'grating'. the highs don't sound bad per se, but they are very hard sounding and can lead to fatigue even with the lcd-3. i'm just afraid switching in a smoother dac will take away the kick and dynamics that i enjoy with the schiit stack. highs aside, the combo is amazing for me.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





uncle00jesse said:


> para - would you say that switching in the nad for the lcd-3 will have the same effect as you say it does with the HD800? i find the gungnir great, has a tremedous amount of kick and bite, but the high-end with some music can be as you say 'grating'. the highs don't sound bad per se, but they are very hard sounding and can lead to fatigue even with the lcd-3. i'm just afraid switching in a smoother dac will take away the kick and dynamics that i enjoy with the schiit stack. highs aside, the combo is amazing for me.


 
  I'd surmise the difference would be less (considering the 800's more resolving), but in short, yes.
   
  I have been reluctant to switch to the LCD-3 because I'm honeymooning and all. But the NAD is a loaner and shouldn't be terribly hard to try again.
   
  I think Gungnir's greatest strength is a strong bottom end. Preference vary and all but Gungnir is still very good.
   
  With that said, the NAD is not bass light per se. It's not as heavy, but still very good. 
   
  I do not find however, NAD to be on the PWD level and I still find it a poor value.


----------



## palmfish

devarika woulf said:


> Yes it is. I am just learning that it is good with the HD800. I had figured it wasn't expensive enough but that was wrong.
> 
> Thank you for all your suggestions. I am always looking at people's signatures, seeing which amp and dac they use together, and that helps me a lot, and this will too. I will have to look, pick and choose should I get an HD800. My LCD-2 R.2 is lovely but the cramped soundstage is getting to me...thinking about something different. Am looking at an LCD-3 too but all this recent thrashing compared to the Sennheiser has discouraged me a little, along with the newly positive opinions on the 800's bass. I will have to think but maybe it's time to - wait for it - join the HD800 club.
> 
> The signature I prefer is analogue and on the warmer side...HD800 is not known for being warm. My best bet would be to sell my LCD-2, get the HD800, and if the Rega is no good for it, sell it and purchase a different dac, something that would pair well with another amp should I upgrade my V200 to something better. I will be following this thread and seeing how new equipment like the X-Sabre and GS-X pairs. I think I am getting a better understanding of this crazy headphone game.




In my opinion, if you prefer a warmer analog sound, then you should choose a warm-tilted headphone. Buying a headphone of a different type and then trying to "change it" with upstream electronics is like putting the carrot before the horse - you'll just go around and around in circles never ontaining what youre looking for.

This is what im talking about. Short of getting a tube amp or a SS amp with distortion "engineered in", why not just get a headphone that meets your needs and pair it with your excellent V200?


----------



## Girls Generation

It's not easy to find a headphone that meets all your needs without it being properly driven. DACs would play a role as well, in curving the sound to his preference, not only FR wise.
  Quote: 





palmfish said:


> In my opinion, if you prefer a warmer analog sound, then you should choose a warm-tilted headphone. Buying a headphone of a different type and then trying to "change it" with upstream electronics is like putting the carrot before the horse - you'll just go around and around in circles never ontaining what youre looking for.
> 
> This is what im talking about. Short of getting a tube amp or a SS amp with distortion "engineered in", why not just get a headphone that meets your needs and pair it with your excellent V200?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> *It's not easy to find a headphone that meets all your needs without it being properly driven. DACs would play a role as well,* in curving the sound to his preference, not only FR wise.


 
   
  That is the truth...  The HD800 and the HE-6 are perfect examples...


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





preproman said:


> That is the truth...  The HD800 and the HE-6 are perfect examples...


 
   
  Not in my experience... After having several amps with different tonality and several flagship headphones in the last two years, I do not share this opinion. People on head-fi seem to *heavily exaggerate* the impact of amplifier or DAC on sound. The actual differences are very subtle unless you apply some heavy bass/treble EQ filter on your Fiio/Centrance/whatever amp/DAC.
   
  I don't want to offense anyone... But I really find absurd that people think any amp or DAC can transform their headphones into something COMPLETELY different. HD800 always sounded like HD800 to me, the same with LCD-2, D7000, Acer IEMs, T50RP, Sony headphones etc. etc.
   
  If you don't like a headphone, don't buy with intention to pair it with 3k amplifier in order to "get the sound right". Buy a cheap 5 USD equalizer if you want to change the signature.
   
  By the way - I spent about a year reading all this stuff about "HD800 without a proper 2k amplifier and 3k DAC is totally unlistenable, ...", Then, I decided to stop reading and get back to the real world. I bought a pair and realised what the reality is. ,-)


----------



## Girls Generation

I don't think anyone was implying they completely change the headphone, but rather have it sound optimal and/or more towards ones preferences. One cannot change presentation, detail, or soundstage depth and width with EQ, but these aspects can be brought forth by good equipment. If not, why don't all Audeze owners use iPhone headphone out and use an EQ app? They can drive the LCDs loud enough. 
   
  Further, by "unlistenable" they're probably drawing relative comparisons because their ears were spoiled. 
  Quote: 





rusta said:


> Not in my experience... After having several amps with different tonality and several flagship headphones in the last two years, I do not share this opinion. People on head-fi seem to *heavily exaggerate* the impact of amplifier or DAC on sound. The actual differences are very subtle unless you apply some heavy bass/treble EQ filter on your Fiio/Centrance/whatever amp/DAC.
> 
> I don't want to offense anyone... But I really find absurd that people think any amp or DAC can transform their headphones into something COMPLETELY different. HD800 always sounded like HD800 to me, the same with LCD-2, D7000, Acer IEMs, T50RP, Sony headphones etc. etc.
> 
> If you don't like a headphone, don't buy with intention to pair it with 3k amplifier in order to "get the sound right". Buy a cheap 5 USD equalizer if you want to change the signature.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> It's not easy to find a headphone that meets all your needs without it being properly driven. DACs would play a role as well, in curving the sound to his preference, not only FR wise.


 

 The hd800 is by default "without taste" like tap water , and all these quests to bring back some "excitement"  with "properly  driving" source, which in fact just add some colorations / distortions so that it sounds more pleasing. Why not get some headphone that already have some colorations/distortions in the sound, and save money.
  Sorry, but I can't help thinking it's a deceiving game.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> I don't think anyone was implying they completely change the headphone, but rather have it sound optimal and/or more towards ones preferences. One cannot change presentation, detail, or soundstage depth and width with EQ, but these aspects can be brought forth by good equipment. If not, why don't all Audeze owners use iPhone headphone out and use an EQ app? They can drive the LCDs loud enough.


 
   
  I could find tons of posts about how HD800 is unlistenable from laptop's output or cheap amplifiers and how you need to spend at least 2x the cost of the headphone itself to enjoy the listen, that you need a tube amplifier in order to enjoy music and that with modern music, HD800 are totally unlistenabl, that only super high-end DAC can let it shine etc. etc.
   
  Then, again, I stopped reading and the reality seem A LITTLE BIT different.
   
  I don't know why all the Audeze users don't use iPhones and EQ, maybe because LCD-2 need more current and people read head-fi threads too often to stay realistic? But they certainly don't need a super-expensive amplifiers, no headphone needs it in order to sound great. I would certainly rather use EQ than spend 2x the cost of the headphone itself for an amp in order to get it right. I don't find it very appealing when any generic EQ will help you to achieve better sound adjustment for free.
   
  Again, if you don't like a headphone like it is, buy something different or use EQ... Much more time and cost effective.


----------



## Girls Generation

Because FR isn't the whole story. 
  Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> The hd800 is by default "without taste" like tap water , and all these quests to bring back some "excitement"  with "properly  driving" source, which in fact just add some colorations / distortions so that it sounds more pleasing. Why not get some headphone that already have some colorations/distortions in the sound, and save money.
> Sorry, but I can't help thinking it's a deceiving game.


----------



## Girls Generation

Because FR isn't the whole story. 
  Quote: 





rusta said:


> I could find tons of posts about how HD800 is unlistenable from laptop's output or cheap amplifiers and how you need to spend at least 2x the cost of the headphone itself to enjoy the listen, that you need a tube amplifier in order to enjoy music and that with modern music, HD800 are totally unlistenabl, that only super high-end DAC can let it shine etc. etc.
> 
> Then, again, I stopped reading and the reality seem A LITTLE BIT different.
> 
> ...


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

Quote: 





rusta said:


> I could find tons of posts about how HD800 is unlistenable from laptop's output or cheap amplifiers and how you need to spend at least 2x the cost of the headphone itself to enjoy the listen, that you need a tube amplifier in order to enjoy music and that with modern music, HD800 are totally unlistenable etc. etc.
> 
> Then, again, I stopped reading and the reality seem A LITTLE BIT different.
> 
> I don't know why all the Audeze users don't use iPhones and EQ, maybe because LCD-2 need more current and people read head-fi threads too often to stay realistic? But they certainly don't need a super-expensive amplifiers, no headphone needs it in order to sound great. I would certainly rather use EQ than spend 2x the cost of the headphone itself for an amp in order to get it right. I don't find it very appealing when any generic EQ will help you to achieve better sound adjustment for free.


 
  Maybe i have golden ears but I don't agree with what you're saying. going from something like a e7/e9 to a bifrost/lyr was a massive upgrade for me. then the jump to gungnir/mjolnir was a whole different world. note that i didnt have a list of all the improvements after the first song. if you're basing your analysis on a couple short term listens with higher end gear, theres a good chance you won't see what it's made of.


----------



## paradoxper

RustA doesn't believe amps sound much different, if different at all. What's the use with reason.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Because FR isn't the whole story.


 
   
  So tell me the whole story with amplifiers and DACs... There are several great cheap amplifiers with enough current and enough voltage to deliver all the power needed. What else are you searching sound-wise? High-end amplifiers and DACs do maybe offer higher level of detail with lower jitter but tell me why I cannot enjoy my HD800 to the full extend with O2 which is supposed to have a horrible synergy with HD800?


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> RustA doesn't believe amps sound much different, if different at all. What's the use with reason.


 
   
  I believe that they sound different... But I don't believe it is worth to mitigate "faults" of any headphone buying super expensive amplifiers. I don't see a reason why.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Not in my experience... After having several amps with different tonality and several flagship headphones in the last two years, I do not share this opinion. People on head-fi seem to *heavily exaggerate* the impact of amplifier or DAC on sound. The actual differences are very subtle unless you apply some heavy bass/treble EQ filter on your Fiio/Centrance/whatever amp/DAC.
> 
> I don't want to offense anyone... But I really find absurd that people think any amp or DAC can transform their headphones into something COMPLETELY different. HD800 always sounded like HD800 to me, the same with LCD-2, D7000, Acer IEMs, T50RP, Sony headphones etc. etc.


 
   
  I stand behind my experience as I specifically stated two headphones.  (HE-6 and the HD800)  Does your experience include these two headphones?  
   
  I in no way said anything about easy to drive headphones as you stated with the D7000 LCD-2 IEms and T50RP.  
   
  There is no exaggeration coming from here if that's what your implying.  Go ahead an hook your HE-6s up to your Fiio.  Then hook them up to a high quality speaker amp.  The proof is in the pudding.
   
  Nobody said anything about being "COMPLETELY" different but you.  I have not seen that statement anywhere.  Please show me if I missed it.  
   
  Besides I thought is was understood anyway that all differences are subtle and not night and day.  You seem to want to make it out to be that way.  But that was never said anywhere.  Again, if I missed it please show me.


----------



## fejnomit

Idea for mid-price HD800 chain: used WA-6SE fed by a JKenny JK32 DAC.  Great combination... In that scenario the phones are the most expensive but the other components are still top notch...


----------



## BournePerfect

Keep in mind the 'dramatic' differences you speak of, aren't necessarily in regards to obvious measureable differences in gear, but rather relate to the user's subjective sonic satisfaction. It only takes that last 5-10% to raise the bar enough to take listening pleasure up to nirvana, subtle measurements be damned. You can't put a number on that. The devil really is in the details, in the subtlety of music that simply isn't found in lesser gear a lot of times. On a related not, I FREQUENTLY find that gear changes are found more easily on the downgrade-not the upgrade. It just takes longer to grasp these subtleties, but A/B with lesser equipment makes it obvious.

Quick analogy: first time I went from upconverted dvds to bluray discs. At first I could barely see any improvements, but then I got accustomed to the higher resolution and going back to dvd now is an absolute joke. There just simply is no comparison-it was the downgrade if you will, that showed me the light. If that makes sense...

-Daniel


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I stand behind my experience as I specifically stated two headphones.  (HE-6 and the HD800)  Does your experience include these two headphones?
> 
> I in no way said anything about easy to drive headphones as you stated with the D7000 LCD-2 IEms and T50RP.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I hooked my HD800 to my laptop's output and still I am enjoying them... I don't see a reason why I cannot. It's a worse sound but it's still the same headphone and it does not sound horrible.

 I just dislike this "properly driven" statement because too many people connects it with money here (and don't try to tell me you didn't notice this before, it's far too frequent here)... And it's especially associated with HD800 and HE-6. I haven't heard HE-6 but with HD800, I don't see anything difficult in driving them to sound great. They have high sensitivity and quite acceptable power demands. They don't even need much current.
   
  I just don¨t think that any amplifier or DAC can solve problems that you have with a pair of headphones. As you said, the differences are subtle and if you only consider your headphone to lack something very subtle to be perfect, it's most probably not an issue at all. And if it is, why to spend money on something uncertain if you can exactly address your issue and fix it with an equalizer or crossfeed (etc.)?
   
*But, sorry for derailing the thread...* I just wanted to point out that I strongly disagree with a statement that HD800 is difficult to drive properly or that it cannot sound great with the majority of amplifiers or DACs. It's still a pair of headphones, nothing more. And it will always sound like HD800 whatever amp or DAC you use them with.


----------



## fejnomit

yes daniel we get accustomed to the higher resolution of a source or a pair of headphones without totally realizing it, then the return to something we loved before the upgrade proves disastrous.  this is also why many a/b trials are necessary over a period of time before deciding which equipment to keep and which to retire...


----------



## Girls Generation

It seems like the only thing you consider in your book is the frequency range, basically bass, mids, and treble. However, you must give mind to the other aspects of sound such as sound stage, presentation, resolution, imaging, and more informal aspects like emotion imparted by synergy and harmony of the whole, when you're at this level of audio fidelity.
   
  Quote: 





rusta said:


> So tell me the whole story with amplifiers and DACs... There are several great cheap amplifiers with enough current and enough voltage to deliver all the power needed. What else are you searching sound-wise? High-end amplifiers and DACs do maybe offer higher level of detail with lower jitter but tell me why I cannot enjoy my HD800 to the full extend with O2 which is supposed to have a horrible synergy with HD800?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





rusta said:


> I hooked my HD800 to my laptop's output and still I am enjoying them... I don't see a reason why I cannot. *It's a worse sound but it's still the same headphone and it does not sound horrible.*
> 
> I just dislike this "properly driven" statement because too many people connects it with money here (and don't try to tell me you didn't notice this before, it's far too frequent here)... And it's especially associated with HD800 and HE-6. I haven't heard HE-6 but with HD800, I don't see anything difficult in driving them to sound great. They have high sensitivity and quite acceptable power demands. They don't even need much current.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Look up top at the bold.  This is what you said.  This is what I don't want.  "A worse sound"  That's the hole point in all of this.  Trying not to get that worse sound as you put it.  
   
  If you haven't had any experience with the HE-6 they you are not in the know.   As I said hook the HE-6 up to your laptop - then hook them up to a quality speaker amp.  Then report back.  I would love to read your impressions.  
   
  My HD800s (2nd pair) sounds horrible out of my iPod.  It gives me that worse sound.  Why would I want that.  If you are able to enjoy the sound no matter what they're hooked up to - then more power to you.  But is it fair to say we should not go after that 3 to 5% more of a better sound - that just so happens to come out of so called better amps?


----------



## BournePerfect

Indeed. I find it amusing when the Fiio/Objective propogandists refuse to accept that there are those that have actually put their time and resources where their mouth is, and actually found out based on real world experience, that there are indeed great sonic improvements to be found with higher end gear-especially in regards to the HD 800. Everyone these days wants something for free, the easy road if you will, and will never know what they are missing. It's amusing to watch them bark at the moon though, ignoring the testaments of those who have walked the walk. It took me me 3 pairs of HD 800s, and 4 amps to even 'like' them, let alone love them. I put my time, energy, frustrations, and $$ in regards to this headphone more than any other-and it has paid off in an incredible way. Glad I for one didn't base my opinions on a graph, or a sceptic's budget. 

-Daniel


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> It seems like the only thing you consider in your book is the frequency range, basically bass, mids, and treble. However, you must give mind to the other aspects of sound such as sound stage, presentation, resolution, imaging, and more informal aspects like emotion imparted by synergy and harmony of the whole, when you're at this level of audio fidelity.


 
   
  What is "presentation", "resolution", "harmony" in terms of sound? Soundstage and imaging are both associated with headphones, with construction and positioning of their drivers. Of course, you could increase both soundstage or imaging with emphasising certain high frequency content, or through improving the level of detail, lowering jitter etc. But I don't why you should get "better" soundstage or imaging if you use two amplifiers with the same frequency response and the other technical aspects mentioned before, and which deliver the same power to the headphone.
   
  However, if you have any reliable papers elaborating on amplifiers/DACs improving soundstage or imaging, I would gladly read them... To be honest, I would really appreciate that because I am aware about anything like that.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





rusta said:


> So tell me the whole story with amplifiers and DACs... There are several great cheap amplifiers with enough current and enough voltage to deliver all the power needed. What else are you searching sound-wise? High-end amplifiers and DACs do maybe offer higher level of detail with lower jitter but *tell me why I cannot enjoy my HD800 to the full extend with O2 which is supposed to have a horrible synergy with HD800?*


 
   
   
  Who's saying you can't.  You can enjoy what you want to enjoy - that's up to you.  Tell me why I can't go after that 3 to 5% increase in sound quality with better amplification?  
   
  Or are you saying better amplification won't give me that 3 to 5% increase?


----------



## BournePerfect

rusta said:


> What is "presentation", "resolution", "harmony" in terms of sound? Soundstage and imaging are both associated with headphones, with construction and positioning of their drivers. Of course, you could increase both soundstage or imaging with emphasising certain high frequency content, or through improving the level of detail, lowering jitter etc. But I don't why you should get "better" soundstage or imaging if you use two amplifiers with the same frequency response and the other technical aspects mentioned before, and which deliver the same power to the headphone.
> 
> However, if you have any reliable papers elaborating on amplifiers/DACs improving soundstage or imaging, I would gladly read them... To be honest, I would really appreciate that because I am aware about anything like that.
> [/quotSo because there isn't currently a machine that can measure these clearly audible traits-you deny their existence/importance???? Good luck with _life_, Rusta. :rolleyes:
> ...


----------



## paradoxper

I sure do love my 800's.
   
   
  Oh, carry on. I feel Rust coming to his senses.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Indeed. I find it amusing when the Fiio/Objective propogandists refuse to accept that there are those that have actually put their time and resources where their mouth is, and actually found out based on real world experience, that there are indeed great sonic improvements to be found with higher end gear-especially in regards to the HD 800. Everyone these days wants something for free, the easy road if you will, and will never know what they are missing. It's amusing to watch them bark at the moon though, ignoring the testaments of those who have walked the walk. It took me me 3 pairs of HD 800s, and 4 amps to even 'like' them, let alone love them. I put my time, energy, frustrations, and $$ in regards to this headphone more than any other-and it has paid off in an incredible way. Glad I for one didn't base my opinions on a graph, or a sceptic's budget.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I would like to hear those GREAT improvements using different amplifiers or DACs... "great" is a word that means much. It means something is very significantly better and that it is possible to spot it immediately. Great is a difference that I hear between my HD800 and crappy Acer IEMs. So I assume your superexpensive amplifier transforms HD800 in the same significant way how I hear the difference between HD800 and those crappy Acer IEMs?
   
  I don't refuse to accept that there are better amplifier and DACs than O2 and ODAC... I refuse to accept your $tatement that you hear GREAT difference with different amplifiers or DACs.
   
  But this discussion really leads to nowhere... So I will stop. I don¨t know why I tried to discuss about this on _*head-fi*_... Silly me.


----------



## BournePerfect

rusta said:


> I would like to hear those GREAT improvements using different amplifiers or DACs... "great" is a word that means much. It means something is very significantly better and that it is possible to spot it immediately. Great is a difference that I hear between my HD800 and crappy Acer IEMs. So I assume your superexpensive amplifier transforms HD800 in the same significant way how I hear the difference between HD800 and those crappy Acer IEMs?
> 
> I don't refuse to accept that there are better amplifier and DACs than O2 and ODAC... I refuse to accept your $tatement that you hear GREAT difference with different amplifiers or DACs.




No you don't. If you did, you'd put the time, effort, and money required to find out yourself. I have done that. You have not, it seems. So before you keep carrying on like a frustrated stubborn child, might I suggest gaining your own experience firsthand, rather than helplessly trying to refute those that have? Experience trumps aimless scepticism I'm afraid. Your loss I suppose.

-Daniel


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

I very honestly wish I could be happy plugging my HD800 or LCD-3 into my iPod and calling it good. I can't. I've tried.
   
  Bottom line, do what works for you, but don't expect others to do or believe the same. That's not how audio works -- or how anything works, really.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> No you don't. If you did, you'd put the time, effort, and money required to find out yourself. I have done that. You have not, it seems. So before you keep carrying on like a frustrated stubborn child, might I suggest gaining your own experience firsthand, rather than helplessly trying to refute those that have? Experience trumps aimless scepticism I'm afraid. Your loss I suppose.
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  Eh? Do you realise that there are people who really care about their money very much? I have people who I want to make happy, I have another things to spend money for in order to survive and I simply didn't hear any spectacular differences with sub1000USD devices I have heard so far. O2/ODAC outperformed them all. And at last, I am not willing to spend more on amp or DAC than on the headphone itself. The headphone is what makes the real difference, not amp or DAC, in my view. By the way, it's the music that counts even more than the headphones... At least this is how I see it. So I am going to spend the highest amount of money towards the music.
   
  By the way, I am in a search for a quality 1000USD amp/DAC in one for HD800, preproman can confirm this. ,-) However, nothing seems to be impressive enough... If you can suggest anything worth it, I would gladly appreciate that.
   
  I like HD800 that much that I am not interested in any other pair of headphones. Now I am trying to find a very good and versatile amp/DAC unit for it... No luck still.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Eh? Do you realise that there are people who really care about their money very much? I have people who I want to make happy, I have another things to spend money for in order to survive and I simply didn't hear any spectacular differences with sub1000USD devices I have heard so far. O2/ODAC outperformed them all. And at last, I am not willing to spend more on amp or DAC than on the headphone itself. The headphone is what makes the real difference, not amp or DAC, in my view. By the way, it's the music that counts even more than the headphones... At least this is how I see it. So I am going to spend the highest amount of money towards the music.
> 
> By the way, I am in a search for a quality 1000USD amp/DAC in one for HD800, preproman can confirm this. ,-) However, nothing seems to be impressive enough... If you can suggest anything worth it, I would gladly appreciate that.
> 
> I like HD800 that much that I am not interested in any other pair of headphones. Now I am trying to find a very good and versatile amp/DAC unit for it... No luck still.


 
   
   
  Might have to go after the Conductor.  It's a bit more expensive.  I can't think of anything else..


----------



## BournePerfect

I'm not telling you how to spend your money-I'm telling you to stop telling people with real world experience in matters where you don't have that same experience-what they hear or cannot hear. That is insane.

In regards to your under 1K combo for the HD800 (now we are getting somewhere!), I haven't tried a lot. I am however, a huge fan of Audio GD's 1704 dacs-so if he has a combo unit in that price range, that would be my (albeit, blind) recommendation. Best of luck!

-Daniel


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Might have to go after the Conductor.  It's a bit more expensive.  I can't think of anything else..


 
   
  This is a price range of Benchmark DAC2 HGC... If I had 2000USD to spend, i would go for DAC2 and quit head-fi forever ,-)
   
  But thank you... I will just continue in my search and hope.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





rusta said:


> This is a price range of Benchmark DAC2 HGC... If I had 2000USD to spend, i would go for DAC2 and quit head-fi forever ,-)
> 
> But thank you... I will just continue in my search and hope.


 
   
   
  How about DIY?


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I'm not telling you how to spend your money-I'm telling you to stop telling people with real world experience in matters where you don't have that same experience-what they hear or cannot hear. That is insane.
> 
> In regards to your under 1K combo for the HD800 (now we are getting somewhere!), I haven't tried a lot. I am however, a huge fan of Audio GD's 1704 dacs-so if he has a combo unit in that price range, that would be my (albeit, blind) recommendation. Best of luck!
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  It could be up to 1200USD or something like that... But for that kind of money, the amp/DAC unit must look like 1000USD device. My desktop O2/ODAC looks 3x better than all the Audio GD stuff, unfortunately.
   
  The device must outperform O2/ODAC at least a bit, must have plenty of inputs/outputs and look good, at least. The tonality could be neutral or slightly to the darker side.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





preproman said:


> How about DIY?


 
   
  No luck in searching for 1000USD DIY amp/DAC in one unit with good look and versatility so far =/


----------



## BournePerfect

Check this one out-I'm sure there's a thread around dedicated to it as well. Not sure how it pairs particularly with the HD800, but the tonal richness of Kingwa's 1704 dacs are a great match for the Senn imo.

 http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/RE5.2/RE5.2EN.htm

-Daniel


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Check this one out-I'm sure there's a thread around dedicated to it as well. Not sure how it pairs particularly with the HD800, but the tonal richness of Kingwa's 1704 dacs are a great match for the Senn imo.
> 
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/RE5.2/RE5.2EN.htm
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  Thanks but it's only a DAC... And looks... well... not very good. As I said, it must be amp/DAC in one unit.
   
  Woo Audio WA7 looks quite good but the DAC is not exactly great and it does not offer much inputs/outputs. W4S mPre is primarily a pre-amp with DAC "only" integrated inside and headphone out as a side feature, not very appealing. Teac UD-501 looks great but the headphone out is most probably weak.


----------



## BournePerfect

My bad I got that one confused with the 10.32, which is way out of your budget...

-Daniel

edit: I happen to love the industrial, no frills, all business design og AGD gear, but can understand someone thinking it's unattractive all the same.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Thanks but it's only a DAC... And looks... well... not very good. As I said, it must be amp/DAC in one unit.
> 
> Woo Audio WA7 looks quite good but the DAC is not exactly great and it does not offer much inputs/outputs. W4S mPre is primarily a pre-amp with DAC "only" integrated inside and headphone out as a side feature, not very appealing. Teac UD-501 looks great but the headphone out is most probably weak.


 
   
   
  Ha ha ha ha  RustA man..  I guess your going to have to split it up.  Who knows what Schiit is cooking up, but we won't know until it drops - (I'm just speculating).  Take a look at the Lynx Hilo - might be of interested to you.  
   
  I just don't like DACs that try at amping.  and amps that try at DAC (ing) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Never going to be even as far as I can see.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> My bad I got that on confused with the 10.32, which is way out of your budget...
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  I think there is 10.32 version that is well within my budget... But the problem is that it's not probably worth the money over O2/ODAC, and looks very cheap. I don't really feel that I HAVE TO upgrade and therefore I want to be 100% satisfied before purchasing.
   
  Performance, versatility and at least acceptable look reflecting the high price tag I will spend. Maybe for someone, 1000USD is cheap but for me, it's a very high price and therefore I should get a perfect device for this money to be happy enough.


----------



## Girls Generation

I'm going to be rude here and ask you, why in the world are you going to spend more money when you don't even know how to appreciate the subtle aspects of the sound? What are you trying to gain? Seems like the only aspect of sound you acknowledge, other than basic frequency range, is detail. Oh the hypocrisy.
   
  I suppose you've never heard of 'fluid, liquid, or effortless' presentation? 'Realism' that from time to time raises your hair?
   
  I think you're still missing the fact that the law of diminishing returns is _already assumed_, and as one gets into hi-fi, the differences are more subtle even though the words you read might imply otherwise.
  Quote: 





rusta said:


> Eh? Do you realise that there are people who really care about their money very much? I have people who I want to make happy, I have another things to spend money for in order to survive and I simply didn't hear any spectacular differences with sub1000USD devices I have heard so far. O2/ODAC outperformed them all. And at last, I am not willing to spend more on amp or DAC than on the headphone itself. The headphone is what makes the real difference, not amp or DAC, in my view. By the way, it's the music that counts even more than the headphones... At least this is how I see it. So I am going to spend the highest amount of money towards the music.
> 
> By the way,* I am in a search for a quality 1000USD amp/DAC* in one for HD800, preproman can confirm this. ,-) However, nothing seems to be impressive enough... If you can suggest anything worth it, I would gladly appreciate that.
> 
> I like HD800 that much that I am not interested in any other pair of headphones.* Now I am trying to find a very good and versatile amp/DAC unit for it*... No luck still.


----------



## L0SLobos

Quote: 





rusta said:


> I think there is 10.32 version that is well within my budget... But the problem is that it's not probably worth the money over O2/ODAC, and looks very cheap. I don't really feel that I HAVE TO upgrade and therefore I want to be 100% satisfied before purchasing.
> 
> Performance, versatility and at least acceptable look reflecting the high price tag I will spend. Maybe for someone, 1000USD is cheap but for me, it's a very high price and therefore I should get a perfect device for this money to be happy enough.


 
  What's your budget again? If it was me I'd save up for Benchmark DAC2


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> I'm going to be rude here and ask you, why in the world are you going to spend more money when you don't even know how to appreciate the subtle aspects of the sound? What are you trying to gain? Seems like the only aspect of sound you acknowledge, other than basic frequency range, is detail. Oh the hypocrisy.
> 
> I suppose you've never heard of 'fluid, liquid, or effortless' presentation? 'Realism' that from time to time raises your hair?
> 
> I think you're still missing the fact that the law of diminishing returns is _already assumed_, and as one gets into hi-fi, the differences are more subtle even though the words you read might imply otherwise.


 
   
  I want to get more versatility (inputs and outputs, more than 24/96 PCM) along with some noticable improvement over O2/ODAC if I am going to spend 3x more (however, not expecting wonders).


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





l0slobos said:


> What's your budget again? If it was me I'd save up for Benchmark DAC2


 
   
  Around 1000USD... Really considering to save up for DAC2 but it's extremely out of my budget. Even 1000USD is much but I am willing to get the money somehow and withdraw for several years from the market.


----------



## BournePerfect

The 10.32 is twice your budget...and I'm not quite understanding how a 30 lb pure black behemoth seems 'cheap' compared to the flyweight that is the Objective stack you have. You are also putting the measurement blinders on when you claim it won't sound better than the O-stack...again you have ZERO experience and credibility when it comes to a highend 1704 Kingwa product. I'm done trying to reason with the unreasonable here-but hopefully mine and other's experiences will be beneficial to you after you've pecked your way out of your shell. 

*trades ZDSE for O2, quits Headfi*

-Daniel


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> The 10.32 is twice your budget...and I'm not quite understanding how a 30 lb pure black behemoth seems 'cheap' compared to the flyweight that is the Objective stack you have. You are also putting the measurement blinders on when you claim it won't sound better than the O-stack...again you have ZERO experience and credibility when it comes to a highend 1704 Kingwa product. I'm done trying to reason with the unreasonable here-but hopefully mine and other's experiences will be beneficial to you after you've pecked your way out of your shell.
> 
> *trades ZDSE for O2, quits Headfi*
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  Rly? Have a look: http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB-10.1/NFB10.1EN.htm
   
  It looks very cheap to me, that's all. I am not going to spend 600 USD on some generic black box with cheap DIY buttons on it... Sorry, I am really not.
   
  As for the opinion, I have read that NFB-10 is not better than O2/ODAC several times... I don't expect it to be really better then. Maybe it is a bit but it won't justify the price at all for me.
   
  There is another version that could actually be better: http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/Reference10/RE10EN.htm
  but is out of my budget.


----------



## Solude

Low cost amp and dac... Schiit BiFrost and Asgard 2 or Lyr.
   
  On the idea that people shouldn't roll amps or dacs to tune a headphone and instead just buy the right headphone... wouldn't that be nice.  Top shelf headphones can be counted on one hand.  And they are wildly different.  If you like the HD800 but wish it had a bit more fullness, changing to the fuller LCD-3 would only result in landing in a place where things are overly full, resolution has been decimated and staging is all but non existent.  And vice versa, an LCD-3 owner wanting a touch more resolution or more treble presence would find the HD800 completely top tilted lacking any lacking that thick liquid sound they like.  There just aren't enough options to tune at the headphone level.  Probably why a butt ton of headphone users like tubes.  You can swing a headphone drastically with tube swaps that act like an EQ without messing with phase or bit resolution.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





solude said:


> Low cost amp and dac... Schiit BiFrost and Asgard 2 or Lyr.
> 
> On the idea that people shouldn't roll amps or dacs to tune a headphone and instead just buy the right headphone... wouldn't that be nice.  Top shelf headphones can be counted on one hand.  And they are wildly different.  If you like the HD800 but wish it had a bit more fullness, changing to the fuller LCD-3 would only result in landing in a place where things are overly full, resolution has been decimated and staging is all but non existent.  And vice versa, an LCD-3 owner wanting a touch more resolution or more treble presence would find the HD800 completely top tilted lacking any lacking that thick liquid sound they like.  There just aren't enough options to tune at the headphone level.  Probably why a butt ton of headphone users like tubes.  You can swing a headphone drastically with tube swaps that act like an EQ without messing with phase or bit resolution.


 
   
  Bifrost and Asgard 2 over O2/ODAC? No, thanks... Not enough inputs/outputs, no better performance. I need something that is good enough to justify its price.
   
  O2/ODAC is 300USD. I am expecting the 1000USD to offer me ALL I am looking for - versatility (inputs/outputs, at least 24/192 PCM over USB), better performance, look.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Rly? Have a look: http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/*NFB-10.1/NFB10.1EN.htm*
> 
> It looks very cheap to me, that's all. I am not going to spend 600 USD on some generic black box with cheap DIY buttons on it... Sorry, I am really not.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  That NFB 10.1 is ugly as SCHIIT......


----------



## Maxvla

There is only one thing I agree with Rusta about and that is AGD stuff looks really bad, like barely held together, nomenclature amateurishly painted on, buttons and seams not lining up quite right among others.

The product looks DIY like it was made in someone's garage, not a manufacturing facility.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> There is only one thing I agree with Rusta about and that is AGD stuff looks really bad, like barely held together, nomenclature amateurishly painted on, buttons and seams not lining up quite right among others.
> 
> The product looks DIY like it was made in someone's garage, not a manufacturing facility.


 
  And is outdated within a month or 2.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> And is outdated within a month or 2.


 
   
  Outdated - you mean like there are a lot of revisions of their products?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Outdated - you mean like there are a lot of revisions of their products?


 
  It seems as if as soon as your 10.5 goes out the door an 10.6 is ready for release.


----------



## BournePerfect

I never once mentioned the NFB version. I did however, mention the 1704 chip version several times in fact. And that would leave only the Ref 10.32 version-sorry I didn't think I would need to spell that out for you. I appreciate the links and pictures of the lower end models that have nothing to do with the product I was talking about though. 

My Reference 9, C-2 SA, and C-2.1 however all had incredible build quality. However my more recent SA 2 dac definitely seemed compromised by comparison, so maybe the non-flagships have taken a turn for the worse lately. Not entirely surprising at the rate they keep spitting these thing out lately...

-Daniel


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I never once mentioned the NFB version. I did however, mention the 1704 chip version several times in fact. And that would leave only the Ref 10.32 version-sorry I didn't think I would need to spell that out for you. I appreciate the links and pictures of the lower end models that have nothing to do with the product I was talking about though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You're talking like I should be an expert on Audio GD stuff... "1704 chip version", LOL. If you have a look at their website, there are about 30 different versions with the same crappy look, that's all I have ever cared about until now.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> In my opinion, if you prefer a warmer analog sound, then you should choose a warm-tilted headphone. Buying a headphone of a different type and then trying to "change it" with upstream electronics is like putting the carrot before the horse - you'll just go around and around in circles never ontaining what youre looking for.
> 
> This is what im talking about. Short of getting a tube amp or a SS amp with distortion "engineered in", why not just get a headphone that meets your needs and pair it with your excellent V200?


 
   
  Well, as I said, I am also considering the LCD-3, and since I love the 2 I'm sure I'll love the 3. But with all the positive praise for the 800 recently I am seriously looking into them. I'm aware that they aren't the same signature which I've come to love but to be honest I'm open to try something new. Frankly, I want the same quality I have now with more detail and a bigger soundstage, and am willing to try a new signature. I have read a bit on the HE-6 and am not sure I'd like it, so unless someone can suggest a different headphone around these prices I am going for one of those two. I appreciate your concern. Thank you.


----------



## Girls Generation

Not enough inputs/outputs for what? You also speak as if you've listened to the Bifrost/Asgard 2. You're looking at a very limited market if your budget is $1000. Do you even have a reason why you 'require' 192? What exactly do you 'mean' by 'performance?' Why does aesthetics matter so much at this price point?
  Quote: 





rusta said:


> Bifrost and Asgard 2 over O2/ODAC? No, thanks...* Not enough inputs/outputs*, *no better performance*. I need something that is* good enough to justify its price*.
> 
> O2/ODAC is 300USD. I am expecting the 1000USD to offer me ALL I am looking for - versatility (inputs/outputs, at least 24/192 PCM over USB), better performance,* look.*


 
   
  Quote: 





preproman said:


> That NFB 10.1 is ugly as SCHIIT......


 
  Hey! Schiit doesn't look bad


----------



## Girls Generation

Going to be honest, LCD3 isn't worth the price if you have a limited budget, and if you're looking for more detail and soundstage. :| Though the 3 seems to have more depth and better imaging and separation, it's not going to be much different than your 2.
  Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> Well, as I said, I am also considering the LCD-3, and since I love the 2 I'm sure I'll love the 3. But with all the positive praise for the 800 recently I am seriously looking into them. I'm aware that they aren't the same signature which I've come to love but to be honest I'm open to try something new. Frankly, I want the same quality I have now with more detail and a bigger soundstage, and am willing to try a new signature. I have read a bit on the HE-6 and am not sure I'd like it, so unless someone can suggest a different headphone around these prices I am going for one of those two. I appreciate your concern. Thank you.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Not enough inputs/outputs for what? You also speak as if you've listened to the Bifrost/Asgard 2. You're looking at a very limited market if your budget is $1000. Do you even have a reason why you 'require' 192? What exactly do you 'mean' by 'performance?' Why does aesthetics matter so much at this price point?
> 
> Hey! Schiit doesn't look bad


 
   
  I don¨t have to give you any explanations... I clearly stated what I want and I surely have my reasons.


----------



## Girls Generation

What you need to do right now is to give suggested gear a good listen before dismissing it off as not having 'better performance' whatever that means. You'll never find something that'll satisfy you if you keep going back to the O2/ODAC is best, in terms of sonic performance, charade.
   
  You can't measure effortlessness, emotion, imaging, separation, etc. What does this mean? This means you should stop being a closed-minded objectivist, and start to appreciate the music as a whole.
  Quote: 





rusta said:


> I don¨t have to give you any explanations... I clearly stated what I want and I surely have my reasons.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> What you need to do right now is to give suggested gear a good listen before dismissing it off as not having 'better performance' whatever that means. You'll never find something that'll satisfy you if you keep going back to the O2/ODAC is best, in terms of sonic performance, charade.


 
   
  I don't have a chance to listen to US-exclusive products since I am located in Europe...
   
  By the way, as I said several times, I am not interested in separate amp and DAC... I want all-in-one solution.


----------



## Girls Generation

Burson HA160DS though you might dismiss it immediately as it doesn't have a medley of inputs/outputs, as with most other amp/dac combos under $1000
  Quote: 





rusta said:


> I don't have a chance to listen to US-exclusive products since I am located in Europe...
> 
> By the way, as I said several times, I am not interested in separate amp and DAC... I want all-in-one solution.


----------



## Solude

Fairly obvious that RustA drank the koolaid and believes to his core that a dac and amp designed by some dude with a blog is a world beater because that same blogger says so /facepalm


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rusta said:


> I don't have a chance to listen to US-exclusive products since I am located in Europe...
> 
> By the way, as I said several times, I am not interested in separate amp and DAC... I want all-in-one solution.


 
Bam. Done.


----------



## Girls Generation

"What's there left to design? The O2 is audibly perfect. How can you build anything better than that?"
   




  Quote: 





solude said:


> Fairly obvious that RustA drank the koolaid and believes to his core that a dac and amp designed by some dude with a blog is a world beater because that same blogger says so /facepalm


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





rusta said:


> I don't have a chance to listen to US-exclusive products since I am located in Europe...
> 
> By the way, as I said several times, I am not interested in separate amp and DAC... I want all-in-one solution.


 
  If I got the money, I would just get the HDVD 800. It 's the oficial sennheiser amp+ dac, and you could get for once for all an idea of what kind of sound the sennheiser engineer got in mind.
  And if someone tell you he has a better source, you could always tell him to shut up since it's the official sennheiser one, the one sennheiser think should be best with the hd800.


----------



## Girls Generation

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> If I got the money, I would just get the HDVD 800. It 's the oficial sennheiser amp+ dac, and you could get for once for all an idea of what kind of sound the sennheiser engineer got in mind.
> And if someone tell you he has a better source, you could always tell him to shut up since it's the official sennheiser one, the one sennheiser think should be best with the hd800.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





solude said:


> Fairly obvious that RustA drank the koolaid and believes to his core that a dac and amp designed by some dude with a blog is a world beater because that same blogger says so /facepalm


 
   
  Did I say that, really?


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Bam. Done.


 
   
  Does not have enough inputs/outputs and is not supposed to perform better than what I have now... ,-)


----------



## Solude

Yep.


----------



## BournePerfect

rusta said:


> You're talking like I should be an expert on Audio GD stuff... "1704 chip version", LOL. If you have a look at their website, there are about 30 different versions with the same crappy look, that's all I have ever cared about until now. :rolleyes:




Not sure where the Reference 10.32 looks like anything other that a well built, good looking tank. And of course I wouldn't expect you to be an AGD expert-since you fail to do your homework on anything audio related, it would seem. Also, the 1704 products are clearly categorized right on the front product page.





solude said:


> Fairly obvious that RustA drank the koolaid and believes to his core that a dac and amp designed by some dude with a blog is a world beater because that same blogger says so /facepalm







girls generation said:


> "What's there left to design? The O2 is audibly perfect. How can you build anything better than that?"




Yep. Simple measurement propoganda for this simple-minded sheep of the audio world-seems like it's working out well for him lol.

-Daniel


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





solude said:


> Yep.


 
   
  Prove or didn't happen.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Not sure where the Reference 10.32 looks like anything other that a well built, good looking tank.* And of course I wouldn't expect you to be an AGD expert-since you fail to do your homework on anything audio related, it would seem*. Also, the 1704 products are clearly categorized right on the front product page.
> 
> Yep. Simple measurement propoganda for this simple-minded sheep of the audio world-seems like it's working out well for him lol.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  Hey! He looked at the measurements, right...


----------



## Girls Generation

I was under the impression that AGD stuff was well built?


----------



## kozmo

Quote: 





rusta said:


> I don¨t have to give you any explanations...


 
   
  Enough said.
   
  Maybe you could take all your experience and help out this guy http://www.head-fi.org/t/653834/why-do-hd800-headphones-sounded-weak-when-hook-up-to-an-ipod
   
  The two of you would make a nice couple.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Burson HA160DS though you might dismiss it immediately as it doesn't have a medley of inputs/outputs, as with most other amp/dac combos under $1000


 
   
  I have heard HA160 and prefered O2... Thank you very much though.


----------



## Girls Generation

And the quality of the buttons.
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Hey! He looked at the measurements, right...


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> And the quality of the buttons.


 
  When compared to the O2/ODAC, but of course!


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





kozmo said:


> Enough said.
> 
> Maybe you could take all your experience and help out this guy http://www.head-fi.org/t/653834/why-do-hd800-headphones-sounded-weak-when-hook-up-to-an-ipod
> 
> The two of you would make a nice couple.


 
   
  Why? I have never planned to use iPod or anything portable with HD800... I could buy IEMs for that.


----------



## BournePerfect

paradoxper said:


> Hey! He looked at the measurements, right...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> When compared to the O2/ODAC, but of course!


 
   
  I've never compared buttons on O2 and on Audio GD... But my O2/ODAC at least look unanimously, all-black. It's not the best-looking amp/DAC but I consider it really fine.


----------



## Girls Generation

Wow... Didn't get the joke/point did you?
  Quote: 





rusta said:


> Why? I have never planned to use iPod or anything portable with HD800... I could buy IEMs for that.


 
   
  I was also unaware a better looking dac/amp will give you better detail. Hmm... Jokes aside, I'm going to put my money down on the fact that the more expensive amps get, the better aesthetically they get since that extra money is getting put towards R&D for aesthetics... meaning the less you spend, the less you should expect.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> I was also unaware a better looking dac/amp will give you better detail.


 
   
  I have never said anything like this.


----------



## BournePerfect

rusta said:


> I've never compared buttons on O2 and on Audio GD... But my O2/ODAC at least look unanimously, all-black. It's not the best-looking amp/DAC but I consider it really fine.




Psst: _All of our comments shouldn't be read so...objectively._

-Daniel


----------



## Maxvla

Not sure how much it costs, but going off Europe available gear, have you tried the V200/V800 combo? Supposed to sound nice with HD800.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Not sure how much it costs, but going off Europe available gear, have you tried the V200/V800 combo? Supposed to sound nice with HD800.


 
   
  I think 2000USD together... This is a Benchmark DAC2 area and unfortuntely way too much for me. =/


----------



## Girls Generation

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Psst: _All of our comments shouldn't be read so...objectively._
> 
> -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

Not all in one, not all in one, not pretty enough, etc etc...

-Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

girls generation said:


>




Oh, I'm into murders and executions mostly. Yep, mergers and acquisitions.

-Daniel


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Not all in one, not all in one, not pretty enough, etc etc...
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  Do you have any problem with my requirements? By the way, the only amp/DAC offering (mentioned here so far) that I don't find pretty enough for the price is the Audio GD stuff... That's all.


----------



## Maxvla

rusta said:


> I think 2000USD together... This is a Benchmark DAC2 area and unfortuntely way too much for me. =/



Is it not cheaper since you are in Europe?


----------



## Girls Generation

You're going to have one requirement that's not going to be met on every suggestion below $1000. Maybe it's time to make compromises.
  Quote: 





rusta said:


> Do you have any problem with my requirements? By the way, the only amp/DAC offering (mentioned here so far) that I don't find pretty enough for the price is the Audio GD stuff... That's all.


----------



## BournePerfect

rusta said:


> Do you have any problem with my requirements? By the way, the only amp/DAC offering (mentioned here so far) that I don't find pretty enough for the price is the Audio GD stuff... That's all.




Not at all. I was just kindly reminding Maxvla of your lofty requirements. 

-Daniel


----------



## paradoxper

Dude, you can budget the Benchmark DAC1
   
*Bam*
   
   
  Or, er, is that the same as your current setup?


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Is it not cheaper since you are in Europe?


 
   
  Not really... It costs even more than 2000USD ( = 1950 Eur) here =/
   
  Quote: 





girls generation said:


> You're going to have one requirement that's not going to be met on every suggestion below $1000. Maybe it's time to make compromises.


 
   
  I have done that already... However, I am in no hurry to upgrade. I am happy with what I have and therefore I am basically trying to get familiar with what is available. If there is nothing good enough for me, I will simply wait.
   
  And as I said, it does not have to be bellow 1000USD. Let's say up to 1200USD new.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Dude, you can budget the Benchmark DAC1
> 
> *Bam*


 
   
  Yeah but why should I spend that much for a device that will sound pretty much the same as what I have? I really don't have money to waste...


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Yeah but why should I spend that much for a device that will sound pretty much the same as what I have? I really don't have money to waste...


 
  Because it has better knobs. Duh!


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Because it has better knobs. Duh!


 
   
  Yeah, it has better versatility and look... But it's not worth 1000USD, at least not for me.


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Do you have any problem with my requirements? By the way, the only amp/DAC offering (mentioned here so far) that I don't find pretty enough for the price is the Audio GD stuff... That's all.


 
  I think the Audio-GD stuff does look better in person than pictures and the newer designs have a little better appearance than some of the older ones.  While I can't say I agree with everything you've wrote recently, I can sympathize since I'm probably on the poorer side and probably have no business owning an HD-800 and therefore am pretty obsessive about high performance/cost ratio.  
   
  I think the best for the money Audio-GD combo right now would be to go with a SA-31 + NFB 2.32. Total comes in under $1000 and would be extremely flexible with inputs and outputs, remote, and filter options, and should drive essentially any dynamic and planar headphone satisfactorily to include the HE-6.  I know it's a little ugly but I don't think your going to get anything close in it's price range that looks better.


----------



## Girls Generation

Oh wow, $200? That changes EVERYTHING.
   
  Seriously though, what's available is what was suggested by experienced people. With such a limited budget I personally think you're better off buying used. Further, your requirement of it being a Amp/DAC in one box combo will really limit your choices, let alone aesthetics, number of input/outputs, and the fact that you're dismissing stuff off as "not better performing," when you haven't even listened to them or gave them a good long session. Nothing's going to change for a while either because the demand isn't there. We all have to make compromises; welcome to reality. You've already dismissed all of the best options for you as not being 'worth it.' I don't know anymore.
   
  Good luck on your journey. It's going to be a long rough road ahead, tougher than most others'.
  Quote: 





rusta said:


> Not really... It costs even more than 2000USD ( = 1950 Eur) here =/
> 
> 
> I have done that already... However, I am in no hurry to upgrade. I am happy with what I have and therefore I am basically trying to get familiar with what is available. If there is nothing good enough for me, I will simply wait.
> ...


----------



## BournePerfect

Lolz. Sennheiser HD 800 Appreciation Thread v.3 in five, four...

-Daniel


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Lolz. Sennheiser HD 800 Appreciation Thread v.3 in five, four...
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  If you don't stop posting useless posts, maybe...
   
  I just wanted to get some suggestions what to buy, that's all. Before, I only stated my opinion that I don't consider HD800 as difficult-to-drive headphone. I wanted to say that because I resisted for a long time because of people talking about HD800 "being extremely dificult to drive well etc.". I am happy that I bought the headphones and it I really enjoy the sound even on O2 that is most probably the worst amplifier in the world for many head-fiers, it seems.


----------



## Girls Generation

It's okay. We understand that you have lower expectations than the rest of us. But that doesn't equate to unanimous fact. It's just an opinion, and you know what they say about opinions. They're like a-holes, everyone's got one. We've given you many suggestions, all of which you immediately dismissed as it did not meet your many requirements. We've tried to communicate to you that the HD800s improve with better gear, but not in the quantity that you expect. We've tried to tell you measurements isn't everything to audio. However, I don't think a thing has changed since the beginning of all this fiasco so...
   
  /discussion
  Quote: 





rusta said:


> If you stop posting useless posts, maybe...
> 
> I just wanted to get some suggestions what to buy, that's all. Before, I only stated my opinion that I don't consider HD800 as difficult-to-drive headphone. I wanted to say that because I resisted for a long time because of people talking about HD800 "being extremely dificult to drive well etc.".


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rusta said:


> If you stop posting useless posts, maybe...
> 
> I just wanted to get some suggestions what to buy, that's all. Before, I only stated my opinion that I don't consider HD800 as difficult-to-drive headphone. I wanted to say that because I resisted for a long time because of people talking about HD800 "being extremely dificult to drive well etc.". I am happy that I bought the headphones and it I really enjoy the sound even on O2 that is most probably the worst amplifier in the world for many head-fiers, it seems.


 
  You've missed the context within "difficult to drive."
   
   
   
  IBTL


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> You've missed the context within "difficult to drive."
> 
> 
> 
> IBTL


 
   
  People are talking that with SS, they sound harsh and sibilant... And that you NEED a tube amp in order to mitigate that unbearably emphasised treble and bring up that unexistant bass. And that HD800 sounds very bad on O2 etc.
   
  I enjoy HD800 on O2 much more that I enjoyed LCD-2 with the same amp. I am looking forward to own some better amplifier but I just wanted to say that I don't find O2 horrible with HD800, at all.


----------



## Girls Generation

I found the HD800 terrid with the O2/ODAC. Again, differences in expecations.
  That you need a tube amp for the HD800 is just cliche given by people who've dismissed the HD800s after a quick listen on SS.
  Quote: 





rusta said:


> People are talking that with SS, they sound harsh and sibilant... And that you NEED a tube amp in order to mitigate that unbearably emphasised treble and bring up that unexistant bass. And that HD800 sounds very bad on O2 etc.
> 
> I enjoy HD800 on O2 much more that I enjoyed LCD-2 with the same amp. I am looking forward to own some better amplifier but I just wanted to say that I don't find O2 horrible with HD800, at all.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rusta said:


> People are talking that with SS, they sound harsh and sibilant... And that you NEED a tube amp in order to mitigate that unbearably emphasised treble and bring up that unexistant bass. And that HD800 sounds very bad on O2 etc.
> 
> I enjoy HD800 on O2 much more that I enjoyed LCD-2 with the same amp. I am looking forward to own some better amplifier but I just wanted to say that I don't find O2 horrible with HD800, at all.


 
  Funny, considering B22 and HD800 has been revered as one of the best for years.
   
  Just because O2 SS sounds bad with HD800 doesn't mean all SS sounds bad with HD800.
   
  I think you've just generalized people past experience with the HD800.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> It's okay. We understand that you have lower expectations than the rest of us. But that doesn't equate to unanimous fact. It's just an opinion, and you know what they say about opinions. They're like a-holes, everyone's got one. We've given you many suggestions, all of which you immediately dismissed as it did not meet your many requirements. We've tried to communicate to you that the HD800s improve with better gear, but not in the quantity that you expect. We've tried to tell you measurements isn't everything to audio. However, I don't think a thing has changed since the beginning of all this fiasco so...
> 
> /discussion


 
   
  Well, I see it differently... But yes, it seems there is no one able to suggest anything useful. I've had better luck in my own topic but I hoped that people in HD800 thread could suggest something I've missed. Will continue in my search... But thank you.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

The HD800 does sound harsh and treble-tilted on *SOME *solid state gear... the A-GD NFB-12 and NuForce HDP come to find. But it also sounds excellent on SS gear with good synergy, including the Bryston BHA-1 I use now.
   
  I generally prefer the HD800 with tube gear, but some tube gear is also not suitable. I did not like the HD800 with the Woo WA6, for example.
   
  Anyone that says the HD800 *needs* to be used with tube gear is either generalizing to make a point or hadn't used the right SS amp.


----------



## BournePerfect

All our advice fell on deaf ears it seems. Good riddance, and good luck.

-Daniel


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Going to be honest, LCD3 isn't worth the price if you have a limited budget, and if you're looking for more detail and soundstage. :| Though the 3 seems to have more depth and better imaging and separation, it's not going to be much different than your 2.


 
   
   
  That *:|* don't sound very nice. You ordered a HD800...am I gathering that the LCD-3 didn't bring the improvements you expected and if you keep it you're gonna top the Mjolnir & Gungnir?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> The HD800 does sound harsh and treble-tilted on *SOME *solid state gear... the A-GD NFB-12 and NuForce HDP come to find. But it also sounds excellent on SS gear with good synergy, including the Bryston BHA-1 I use now.
> 
> I generally prefer the HD800 with tube gear, but some tube gear is also not suitable. I did not like the HD800 with the Woo WA6, for example.
> 
> Anyone that says the HD800 *needs* to be used with tube gear is either generalizing to make a point or hadn't used the right SS amp.


 
  I prefer it on my Decware CSP2 but the V200 a solid state amp is also very good with it but my Tube amp has a wider and deeper soundstage . The Birson was OK with it but not as good for me at least as the V200 is and others may prefer the burson on the hd800. The Burson was and is an excellent amp for more IMO low impedance cans.


----------



## bearFNF

Wow!!! Is all I can say...lots of circling going on in this thread.
   
  Any way, I have been using the Asgard 2 and just added the Bifrost and find the HD800 very enjoyable with this combo.
  Might try one of the others you have been discussing here after while.  just need to pick one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...Heh.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Well, I see it differently... But yes, it seems there is no one able to suggest anything useful. I've had better luck in my own topic but I hoped that people in HD800 thread could suggest something I've missed. Will continue in my search... But thank you.


 
  What you leaving already.


----------



## BournePerfect

Lol one can only withstand so much reason for so long Frank. Have you received your new Taboo yet?

-Daniel


----------



## JWahl

I'd also be curious to hear about the new Taboo with the HD-800 as well.  Even though it's primarily intended for Planars according to the site, I'm sure it would do just find with higher impedance.  I have to admit it is one sexy amp.  Love those new gauges too.


----------



## zerodeefex

rusta said:


> paradoxper said:
> 
> 
> > Dude, you can budget the Benchmark DAC1
> ...




Having built the o2 and odac and having owned the DAC1, I can assure you there is a noticeable delta.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





jwahl said:


> I'd also be curious to hear about the new Taboo with the HD-800 as well.  Even though It's primarily intended for Planars according to the site but I'm it would do just find with higher impedance.  I have to admit it is one sexy amp.  Love those new gauges too.


 
  In a week or two I will start posting some impression on the hD800 and the new Taboo. I will be doing a full review win about 4 -5 weeks and hopefully its done by then.


----------



## BournePerfect

Be sure to do a comparison that everyone is DYING to know:

Taboo MKII










-VERSUS-









O2!













-DANIEL


----------



## L0SLobos

@RustA why do you even need so many outputs anyway? IRL, you're not even going to use most of them.


----------



## Girls Generation

Actually I think people have tried their best but your absurd requirements and prejudice had them all dismissed. Good luck finding a nonexistent amp/dac. Not everyone has such incredibly inferior taste/ears. This is probably the last time I try to reason with disrespectful closed minded objectivists who call themselves audiophiles with hi-fi cans when they don't even know what imaging or presentation is or how to even discern it, let alone acknowledge it exists. 
   
  Quote: 





rusta said:


> Well, I see it differently... *But yes, it seems there is no one able to suggest anything useful.* I've had better luck in my own topic but I hoped that people in HD800 thread could suggest something I've missed. Will continue in my search... But thank you.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I agree with you mostly, but I don't believe that there are many "poor DACs" out there. If you research and shop wisely, you can find a number of DACs that decode accurately and "do no harm" that are very affordable. Same with amps - well engineered and sufficiently powerful amps dont have to cost a lot.
> 
> I think the law of diminishing returns applies to upstream gear to a much greater degree than it does to headphones. That's my point in a nutshell.


 
  I agree with you on the diminished returns with newer DACs. I find that after about the $1000 ish range things start to plateau pretty quickly.


----------



## Girls Generation

No it's just I wanted to give the newer HD800s a good go to see if they change anything for me. I bought the LCD3 with a right amount of expectation so I'm not really disappointed by it. I actually like it a lot more than the LCD2 though its still too early to put a dot on it.  Not sure what you mean by top the Mjo and Gung but if you mean upgrade I'm not sure; we'll see what happens. I'm probably going to upgrade my DAC. 
  Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> That *:|* don't sound very nice. You ordered a HD800...am I gathering that the LCD-3 didn't bring the improvements you expected and if you keep it you're gonna top the Mjolnir & Gungnir?


----------



## Solude

Anyone have a complete list of the tube headphone amp with preamp functions that work well with the HD800 in around or below $2K?  Only ones I can think of are...
   
  Apex Peak
  Decware CSP2
  EC ZDSE
   
  Drawing blanks otherwise.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





solude said:


> Anyone have a complete list of the tube headphone amp with preamp functions that work well with the HD800 in around or below $2K?  Only ones I can think of are...
> 
> Apex Peak
> Decware CSP2
> ...


 
  The new Decware Taboo MK III has Pre-amp functionality now as well....


----------



## Solude

Now if only it didn't look like a uboat


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





solude said:


> Now if only it didn't look like a uboat


 
  I love the looks of the Taboo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


 Like, man I don't have a tube amp and it would be top of my list! Looking forward to Frank's review of it.


----------



## Solude

I like the original.  The tube tester gauges need to go though and to be honest the front should be 4pin and TRS not dual 3pin.  Will add they aren't doing themselves any favours doing the promo shots with the gold dial instead of wood and with dampers on.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





solude said:


> Now if only it didn't look like a uboat


 
  OH man I almost fell out of my chair
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...My neighbors are thinking I'm crazing laughing so hard.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





solude said:


> I like the original.  The tube tester gauges need to go though and to be honest the front should be 4pin and TRS not dual 3pin.  Will add they aren't doing themselves any favours doing the promo shots with the gold dial instead of wood and with dampers on.


 
  Agree about the dampers, look like rolled up condoms...just sayin'


----------



## Solude

Checked the site.  No preamp outs available as an option at least officially


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





solude said:


> I like the original.  The tube tester gauges need to go though and to be honest the front should be 4pin and TRS not dual 3pin.  Will add they aren't doing themselves any favours doing the promo shots with the gold dial instead of wood and with dampers on.


 
  Funny, I love the gauges. Agreed that better tube dampers for promo shots would have been a better idea. Overall if it sounds as good as it looks, I might be very tempted.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





solude said:


> I like the original.  The tube tester gauges need to go though and to be honest the front should be 4pin and TRS not dual 3pin.  Will add they aren't doing themselves any favours doing the promo shots with the gold dial instead of wood and with dampers on.


 
  You can order it with the 4 pin xlr and the gauges are really very good as it will let you know if the power tubes you have int  there are matched and also it will let you know if they are weak or getting to the point where they will need replacing, I think its a big plus  to have them in the design. he already has preorders for over 20 amps so I guess the promos were working for him. 12 week wait


----------



## Solude

I'd like to know too but the ad press is just weird.  They describe lucid mode as mono sounding.  How does destroying the stereo image improve staging?


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





frank i said:


> You can order it with the 4 pin xlr and the gauges are really very good as it will let you know if the power tubes you have int  there are matched and also it will let you know if they are weak or getting to the point where they will need replacing, I think its a big plus  to have them in the design. he already has preorders for over 20 amps so I guess the promos were working for him. 12 week wait


 
   
  I'd rather pay my tube guy $5 than Decware $500 just saying


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





solude said:


> I'd rather pay my tube guy $5 than Decware $500 just saying


 
  To each his own. Just saying


----------



## Solude

Nods


----------



## palmfish

That Taboo does look pretty, although I think it looks a lot like the Bottlehead Crack with some cherry stain.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





solude said:


> I'd like to know too but the ad press is just weird.  They describe lucid mode as mono sounding.  How does destroying the stereo image improve staging?


 
  There are two Lucid modes and they are amazing on the HD800's!


----------



## bearFNF

Could get the version with the white crown molding on it.


----------



## TooPoor

Not that I didn't trust what I'd read, but holy revealing headphone Batman. Some recordings sound amazing and others sound so horrid I can't even listen to them and that's on a Lyr/Bifrost... So glad I'm going to buy a better DAC/AMP so that I can become even more particular 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've almost hit rock bottom me thinks. /end sarcasm/


----------



## Maxvla

I'm sure you'll tough it out.


----------



## TooPoor

It's practically unbearable!
   
   I'm thinking either the AudioGD SA-1.32 or the X-Sabre for a DAC. And am interested in the Firestone Audio Bobby (per Project86) or a balanced M^3...


----------



## olor1n

Wow at this thread. It's good to see an HD800 resurgence, with more members echoing what some of us have been stating for some time. There's a lot of noise to wade through now though. The original HD800 thread was much more civilised.
   
  Anyone else reminded of googleli when reading RustA's posts? They're like twins, but at extreme ends of the spectrum.


----------



## Pudu

Haha, yes I thought this thread was done for too. Amazingly what can happen in a few short hours.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Wow at this thread. It's good to see an HD800 resurgence, with more members echoing what some of us have been stating for some time. There's a lot of noise to wade through now though. The original HD800 thread was much more civilised.
> 
> Anyone else reminded of googleli when reading RustA's posts? They're like twins, but at extreme ends of the spectrum.


 
  Rust wasn't busting out the K-01 references though...


----------



## Maxvla

Hence the opposite...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Hence the opposite...


 
  But...I thought the ODAC was virtually the same as the K-01?  I am so confused...


----------



## palmfish

Geez, you all just cant let it go?
   
  Objective vs. subjective...nobody wins or loses that one. Ever.
   
  Can we move on and talk about the HD 800? I'll have mine on Monday and I'll be driving them with a Squeezebox Touch connected to my 1985 Carver Receiver via analog RCA.
   
  No outboard DAC, no dedicated headphone amp. Just sweet music


----------



## longbowbbs

OK, OK.....Back to Awesome HD800 things!
   
  Steve Deckert of Decware and my HD800's with the Prototype of the new Decware Taboo MK III in the Decware lab.
   
   

   
  Yes, that is another amp hanging on the wall...


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Geez, you all just cant let it go?
> 
> Objective vs. subjective...nobody wins or loses that one. Ever.
> 
> ...


 
   Wait you're not technically even _qualified_ to talk until Monday, and you're trying to moderate this madness??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
  J/K
   
  The analog outs of the SBT is no slouch in it's price range-I'm sure you'll be more than happy with that starter rig. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Wait you're not technically even _qualified_ to talk until Monday, and you're trying to moderate this madness???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
Touché


----------



## toschek

These showed up today to replace the HD700s I had been evaluating for the last month. Already I can't imagine going back. They are so holographic with my Lyr, the imaging is just amazing. I've been listening to Hesperion XX tonight and it is revealing all these details I've never heard before (http://www.amazon.com/Elizabethan-Consort-Music-1558-1603/dp/B000QR16O6) 

I don't think I'm going to regret saying goodbye to the HD700s. They are nice, don't get me wrong, but I feel like with these and my Amperiors for travel I will never need another set of headphones. I haven't even started looking for a cable yet, nor do I plan to if I don't have to.


----------



## wink

Wait 'till the stax bug strikes........


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





toschek said:


> These showed up today to replace the HD700s I had been evaluating for the last month. Already I can't imagine going back. They are so holographic with my Lyr, the imaging is just amazing. I've been listening to Hesperion XX tonight and it is revealing all these details I've never heard before (http://www.amazon.com/Elizabethan-Consort-Music-1558-1603/dp/B000QR16O6)
> 
> I don't think I'm going to regret saying goodbye to the HD700s. They are nice, don't get me wrong, but I feel like with these and my Amperiors for travel I will never need another set of headphones. I haven't even started looking for a cable yet, nor do I plan to if I don't have to.


 
  Congrats.  I remember when you were talking about the HD-700 compared to the K702 65th.  I certainly have no regrets skipping the HD700 and no regrets selling the K702 65th to help fund my HD800 purchase.  
   
  Unless you have some really nice tubes on the Lyr, I have to recommend trying the HD800 on something more transparent.  When I had the Lyr, I found it to even bottleneck the transparency of the R1 LCD-2.  I never tried it with any other tubes than what Schiit sells though.


----------



## Mambosenior

Those of you who use (have used) the HD-800 with speaker amps:
   
  1. Do you use resistors on the speaker amp or go straight without resistors?
   
  2. Only have an SS 100-watt amp to test with at present but do have a very good fine-tune preamp.
   
  3. Would the 300 ohm load be a problem for an amp used to 4-8 ohm loads?
   
  Thank you for your consideration.


----------



## Cante Ista

I am running the hd800 off my F3 -- directly(no resistors) with no problems). This is an SS amp that puts out 15 WPC so ti si not a very powerful amp. I would worry about pigging them directly into anything more powerful or a tube amp designed for an 4-16 ohm load.


----------



## Mambosenior

Thank you Cante. How do you rate the 800 with the F3 as opposed to an HP amp?


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





mambosenior said:


> Thank you Cante. How do you rate the 800 with the F3 as opposed to an HP amp?


 
  For me, it is the best amp I currently own. It is not night and day though. I have the Sonett at work so cannot compare side by side. Compared to the phonitor, the presentation is sharper ( as in better focused) and the edges of sound are more defined. To me this is like I am looking at a sharper TV screen. The details are easier to notice the extension seems a bit better and the layering is really nice. The phonitor by comparison is smoother. The detail is still there but not as obvious. Now, this is all relative and the phonitor still has excellent detail. I think the phonitor sounds a bit tubey in comparison. Smoother and less in your face, like the F3 is 1st row and the phonitor is a little further back. These differences are very subtle though and I could see how someone could actually prefer the phonitor. Besides the phonitor has that nice crossfeed function that is a nice perc.


----------



## kazsud

How much better is the stratus then the sonnet?


----------



## Cante Ista

I bet it is at least 1000 USD better.


----------



## Cante Ista

but seriously, it uses one of tyhe most respected triodes out there,. I bet it is one of the best amps for the hd800 out there. i will hear it in May. Will be able to let you know then. I am sure others will be able to do it before then.


----------



## third_eye

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> How much better is the stratus then the sonnet?


 
  I auditioned the Stratus and the Sonnett 2 at the same time. The Stratus has way more power, soundstage, slam, presence and just sounds like the BIGGER amp....for me the difference was not subtle. That's not taking away anything from the Sonnett 2...it's a fine amp. But the Stratus is in a different league.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





mambosenior said:


> Thank you Cante. How do you rate the 800 with the F3 as opposed to an HP amp?


 

 I would have thought your LaFigaro 339 would be the perfect match for your HD800"s? I'm curious why you are looking for another alternative?


----------



## BrunoS72

My HD-800 package didn't include a frequency response chart with serial number and signature as those shown on this thread. Was it supposed to be in the box with the manual? I bought the headphones new last year from B&H.


----------



## Mambosenior

Chodi,
   
  The LF339 IS quite wonderful with the 800. Since I also enjoy my HE 5-LE with the Threshold amp, I ordered a new 800 cable with 4-pin stereo XLR (nothing fancy: Canare wire, 10ft) to try with a speaker amp (the "curiosity" bug when one has too much time on their hands).
   
  Well, tonight I took a bit of a dive (could have been a $1400+ splat) off the cliff by trying the 800 with the Threshold (a low-brow combo of Power Mac-->Audio-gd NFB-11.32 (variable out)-->amp). Listening (classical, jazz) only for a half-hour, I am VERY impressed by the combination. First, there's no noise issues, the amp is dead-silent. I can run the gain on the Audio-gd to about 9 with the classical and between 8-9 with most jazz. The depth and width of stage in the symphonic repertory (usual ball-busters like Rite of Spring, Plants, as well as Arnold and Prokofiev symphonies) have spectacular proportions. It feels like "I am in the hall." Instrumental separation and timbres are superb. The bass in Patricia Barber's new "Smash" album (1st track) has a cleanliness, depth and definition that I haven't experience previously, and her infinite vocal inflections are all there. Again, it's too early in this trial for me to make pronouncements and I have to go back to the LF339 to gain some perspective as to the differences. I'll start throwing some better front end gear at the Threshold now that I know I am not blowing it up ot frying the 800s.
   
  So, for whatever it's worth, there are my two rusty cents.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





brunos72 said:


> My HD-800 package didn't include a frequency response chart with serial number and signature as those shown on this thread. Was it supposed to be in the box with the manual? I bought the headphones new last year from B&H.


 
   
  No there is a page in the manual on how to get yours.  Though I do think they should have just included it but then people might start cherry picking their HD800 like some of us did for Audeze


----------



## Solude

Caveat for anyone thinking of running a speaker amp... has to be wired for 4 wire, no shared ground.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





solude said:


> Caveat for anyone thinking of running a speaker amp... has to be wired for 4 wire, no shared ground.


 
  in other words, do not get an adapter that is 1/4 jack female with wires going to your amp. That will kill your amp. You need to recable your headphone with balanced cord -- 4 pin XLR (male) and then acquire 4 pin XLR female/speaker adapter.


----------



## kazsud

Quote: 





third_eye said:


> I auditioned the Stratus and the Sonnett 2 at the same time. The Stratus has way more power, soundstage, slam, presence and just sounds like the BIGGER amp....for me the difference was not subtle. That's not taking away anything from the Sonnett 2...it's a fine amp. But the Stratus is in a different league.


 
   
  Thanks for the info. It's on my list but not near the affordable part yet.
  Im probably gonna have to get it after the WA7 since its more in my price range at the moment :/


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





jwahl said:


> Congrats.  I remember when you were talking about the HD-700 compared to the K702 65th.  I certainly have no regrets skipping the HD700 and no regrets selling the K702 65th to help fund my HD800 purchase.
> 
> Unless you have some really nice tubes on the Lyr, I have to recommend trying the HD800 on something more transparent.  When I had the Lyr, I found it to even bottleneck the transparency of the R1 LCD-2.  I never tried it with any other tubes than what Schiit sells though.


 
   
  I have been using it with Brimar CV2492 and Telefunken 6922 tubes, it has been great on the transparency end.   I'm keeping the Lyr for now, but I have my eye on something else in the next few months.  I may even go to a balanced setup.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





mambosenior said:


> Chodi,
> 
> The LF339 IS quite wonderful with the 800. Since I also enjoy my HE 5-LE with the Threshold amp, I ordered a new 800 cable with 4-pin stereo XLR (nothing fancy: Canare wire, 10ft) to try with a speaker amp (the "curiosity" bug when one has too much time on their hands).
> 
> ...


 
  I don't have the HD800 yet (got side tracked with Stax) but your experience sounds very similar to mine when I used my T1's to go from my LaFigaro to a pretty good solid state Audio gd  amp. After prolonged use I came to the conclusion that the tubes were more musical overall with slightly less detail and slam in the bass. I really think that is overall the difference between any two decent tube and ss amps. In the end I stayed with the tubes. I read a comment somewhere that the 800's don't pair well with the LaFigaro so that is what prompted my question. The Lafigaro sure does a great job with my T1's.


----------



## jeffreyfranz

Quote: 





solude said:


> Caveat for anyone thinking of running a speaker amp... has to be wired for 4 wire, no shared ground.


 
   
  Solude:
  My HD-800s don't arrive for another week or so, but I have been thinking a lot of trying them with the speaker taps of my BAT VK-60. I believe each channel employs a *balanced-bridge output configuration* (2 6C33C-B power triodes in each channel). Can you advise me of any special precautions that need to be taken with such an output? Is it only as stated earlier--no shared grounds, or is there more? (Anyone else who has knowledge, feel free to chime in.)
   
  Thanks.


----------



## toschek

How does one use speaker taps with the HD800s anyway? I am such a noob. What kinds of amps would you look for other than super low power configurations?


----------



## Maxvla

http://www.head-fi.org/t/649107/speaker-amps-for-headphones


----------



## Mambosenior

Maxvla, thanks for the link. I strongly recommend it to all who have been interested in speaker amps for the 800. There's been too much misinformation on the process and it kept me away from trying it for far too long.
   

  If the situation continues like the past few days of listening, I have bought my last headphone amp. The 800 on the Threshold is (insert your most outrageously complimentary/flowery/audiophiliacunous adjective)! I can't believe this thing is a "headphone!" I've owned the 800 for 3 years (#032xx0  and never suspected that it was capable of what I am hearing presently. I have thrown everything I usually listen to--classical symphonic/chamber, opera, rock, jazz, vocals--at it. The HE-5LE was my previous go-to for rock and jazz but it simply doesn't measure up with the 800 even in these genres.
   
  I've been using it straight out of the speaker taps without resistors. Today, I'll place 10ohm/10watt resistors in parallel and sample the results, this after reading the link above. Those who have experienced (many, it seems) a lack of bass, bright treble and recessed mids with the 800 should try it with a quality speaker amp. It has been interesting to read that the HE-6 was also claimed to suffer from similar ills until paired with a speaker amp of sufficient power. Advice I followed with the 5LE and remain extremely pleased. Well, here on the couch, the same goes for the 800.
   
  I have no idea why a 300ohm headphone would need a 100watt speaker amp to make it spectacular. Some members here have used much-lower wattage speaker amps and gotten good results. For the science part of this mystery, I'll leave it to those here better versed in electronics. It seems though that the quality of the amp may have a lot to do with it, as is the case with reference speakers.
   
  Thanks for your patience.


----------



## BournePerfect

Mambosenior:
   
  What were some of the previous headphone amps you used with the HD 800? Any direct comparisons you can give with the better ones?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## philo50

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Mambosenior:
> 
> What were some of the previous headphone amps you used with the HD 800? Any direct comparisons you can give with the better ones?
> 
> -Daniel


 
  +1


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





philo50 said:


> +1


 

 +2


----------



## Cante Ista

mambosenior said:


> Maxvla, thanks for the link. I strongly recommend it to all who have been interested in speaker amps for the 800. There's been too much misinformation on the process and it kept me away from trying it for far too long.
> 
> If the situation continues like the past few days of listening, I have bought my last headphone amp. The 800 on the Threshold is (insert your most outrageously complimentary/flowery/audiophiliacunous adjective)! I can't believe this thing is a "headphone!" I've owned the 800 for 3 years (#032xx0  and never suspected that it was capable of what I am hearing presently. I have thrown everything I usually listen to--classical symphonic/chamber, opera, rock, jazz, vocals--at it. The HE-5LE was my previous go-to for rock and jazz but it simply doesn't measure up with the 800 even in these genres.
> 
> ...




How does your volume control behave?


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





rusta said:


> +2


 
  -1


----------



## Mambosenior

My experience with headphone amps is very limited and includes only those in my signature as well as those that I've auditioned in my home. The latter have been:
  Burson 160; Woo 6SE; Luxman P-1; Graham Slee "Solo"; AE Nighthawk; Darkvoice 336 and 337. I was fortunate to also listen to the CSP-2 but not with my HD-800 and also with someone else's electronics. The Luxman and CSP-2 were very impressive, the others were also extremely satisfying but I decided to continue with the LF339 (slightly souped-up by my local electronic guru) which has given me the best sound for a reasonable price (except for the pricey tube parade I seem to engage in thanks to the folks over at the LF339 thread).


----------



## Mambosenior

I would like to emphasize that my comments are not intended to disparage the many fine headphone amps that are out there (God forbid the moderator(s) would shut down this thread). I don't usually sell much of the gear I've acquired (hence the proverbial stereo gear/cables "orphan closets" in two homes) and am sure that those HP amps I now own will find other convenient uses. Please take my views as simply reflecting my own opinions about the 800 paired with a speaker amp.


----------



## toschek

I'm interested in seeing how this works with my Denon AVR if not just for grins.  Did you make your own cable for this?  Banana plugs?  The one caveat for me right now is that I'm saving for speakers and a good tube integrated to run them so I don't want to splash out on a high end cable for the HD800s.  Can you compare the sound out of the speaker taps to running balanced out?
   
  I'm saving towards either the new Schiit statement amp (hybrid again, I am not a SS fan) depending on reviews or the Leben CS300XS.  Right now I am leaning towards Leben since it is a known quantity with very good reviews.  It will be time to reconsider running speaker out when I have a higher quality amp as I am sure it will work better than what I have now


----------



## Mambosenior

Since few of us read back to other posts (guilty!), here is the link Maxvla shared a few hours ago.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/649107/speaker-amps-for-headphones
   
  Operakid seems to be the one on-point for this brigade.


----------



## dleblanc343

I too have went on mainly to a speaker amp for my HD800/HE6. Currently using the McIntosh Mc225 with the HiFiMAN resistor and it's a huge step above the mjolnir I own and the BHA-1.
   
  The amount of low end retrieval is incredible since I've acquired this amp. The HD800's bass is very similar to my previous LCD3's; but not quite as present and slow. The HE6 are even a tad bassier than both. The highs are even more transparent, analytic, yet smoother and less aggressive ( 100% natural timbre). I'm not to sure what to do with the mjolnir, I feel like selling it and the gungnir to fund a NAD m51, otherwise I'll just keep my mjolnir for a second rig.
   
  It's hard justifying keeping all this at my age and limited income


----------



## Cante Ista

dleblanc343 said:


> I too have went on mainly to a speaker amp for my HD800/HE6. Currently using the McIntosh Mc225 with the HiFiMAN resistor and it's a huge step above the mjolnir I own and the BHA-1.
> 
> The amount of low end retrieval is incredible since I've acquired this amp. The HD800's bass is very similar to my previous LCD3's; but not quite as present and slow. The HE6 are even a tad bassier than both. The highs are even more transparent, analytic, yet smoother and less aggressive ( 100% natural timbre). I'm not to sure what to do with the mjolnir, I feel like selling it and the gungnir to fund a NAD m51, otherwise I'll just keep my mjolnir for a second rig.
> 
> It's hard justifying keeping all this at my age and limited income




What I wonna know is how you got all this "at your limited income.?" Just kidding! I am just jealous of the Mac. Glad to hear it lives up to its rep.


----------



## Mambosenior

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> Currently using the McIntosh Mc225


 
  What a sweet combination. Congratulations! I tried my Music Reference RM-200 hybrid with the HE-5LE very briefly and it sounded heavenly. However, I stopped almost immediately since I didn't have the resistors or Hifiman thingy and was afraid of blowing up the amp after reading some of the posts regarding tube amps over at one of the HE-6 threads.


----------



## toschek

So, serious question; using one of these - http://hifiman.com/Products/?pid=104 - I should be able to connect the HD800 to virutally any speaker amp?  I realize this requires a balanced cable, which I would need to order, but other than that what are the risks with this?  Just watch the volume essentially & don't smoke your headphones?
   
  What should I expect from the sound with one of these?   Is it similar to balanced outputs or different?  Everyone talks in superlatives and I am not sure what to expect or if it's worth putting around $450 towards when I could be saving for an integrated amp and speakers


----------



## Maxvla

No need to spend $450. You can get a balanced cable for $100-150 and that box, if you desire for $100.


----------



## toschek

Very nice. I'm definitely looking into it then. If you can PM me where I would pick up the balanced cable, I would very much appreciate it.


----------



## Maxvla

http://headphonelounge.com/

Site doesn't show prices for all the options available, but send them an email asking for the cheapest cable with HD800 connectors and a 4 pin XLR termination. I would highly recommend adding the MDPC-X in whatever color you like. I got my cable from them a year ago and it was just over $100 (I like a short cable).


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Very nice. I'm definitely looking into it then. If you can PM me where I would pick up the balanced cable, I would very much appreciate it.


 
  That is the safe and easy/ no headache way, but you can also solder in some resistors straight into the amp. I'm not good with that kind of stuff, and am good friends with the hifiman rep over here so I just spend the few bucks.
   
  Also, if the amp is under 20 watts per channel, you can probably plug them straight to the amp, depending on the amp; just be very careful with the volume knob


----------



## Mambosenior

Have gotten all my HP after-market cables here: www.charlestoncablecompany.com (charlestoncable@gmail.com)
   
  No flowery nonsense or scientific voodoo, just solidly built and very reasonably priced.


----------



## Maxvla

Good prices, though I'm not fond of the - plain cable with printing on the side of it - look.


----------



## Senn-Fi

I have had very favorable results with DIY Mogami Neglex balanced cable.  It compares very nicely to the Black Dragon cable I have.  You can get 10 feet on ebay for <$20.  $6 for a neutrik 4 pin xlr, and about $50 for the HD800 connectors. If you don't like the bare cable look, there are any number of sleeving options.


----------



## palmfish

I received my HD 800's today.
   
  I spent a nice 2 or 3 hours with them tonight just getting to know them. Played with a few amps and casual A/B with my D7000's (Lawton modded).
   
  Amps: O2, Burson HA-160D, Schiit Lyr, and my Carver Receiver.
   
  Initial impressions: Wow, the 800's really bring out the differences between amps. I admit I was a skeptic, but now I believe...
   
  Here are the amps in order of how much I hate them through the HD 800:
   
  1. O2 - shrill and scratchy, lacks body and coherence.
  2. Lyr - Fairly well balanced, but a little too bright, slightly sibilant, and the bass is light - lacks weight.
  3. Carver - A little stronger and muddier on the bottom that thickens the mids a smidge. Very good body and treble is nice. Smooth and detailed.
  4. Burson - The best of the group with the HD 800. In between the Lyr and the Carver tonally - leaner than the Carver but fuller than the Lyr. Perfect balance between bass-mids-treble, and a little more open sounding than the Carver.
   
  Funny though, when I compared the amps with my D7000, my findings were very different.
   
  1. Lyr - I guess I just don't like this amp. Sounded like a layer of grime coating a window. Shrill treble yet smeared detail.
  2/3. O2 and Burson - Really couldn't tell them apart. A little flat and dull sounding - grime like the Lyr but a little cleaner.
  4. Carver - Clear, clean, tight bass, sparkly treble. A very good match aparently (also admittedly what I'm most accustomed to).
   
  What frustrated me was that all of my observations are very song dependent. Some lush recordings (Patricia Barber for example) sound fantastic on the D7000/Carver rig and the 800/Burson rig. Other recordings that are super clean (overproduced?) like Dire Straits Brothers in Arms or anything by The Police are the opposite - they sound best on the 800/Carver rig and the D7000/Burson rig. Many other recordings fall somewhere unpredictably in between.
   
  A few other observations:
   
  *I found it interesting that the O2 sounds so good with the D7000 and so bad with the HD 800. I didn't expect this.
  *The DAC portion of the HA-160D sounds identical to the DAC built into my Squeezebox Touch. This was after running both analog and Coax from the Touch to the Burson and switching between the two inputs.
  *The Denon doesn't sacrifice any detail or refinement to the 800. It lacks the fuller midrange and the more open/diffuse sound quality of the 800 in exchange for tighter punchier bass and a closer more pinpoint kind of sound. I haven't listened to classical music with the 800's yet, but I suspect that this is where they will shine. The HD 800 is like an S-Class Mercedes and the D7000's are a Porsche 911.
   
  I'm definitely enjoying the HD 800's right now, though I don't know if they will find a permanent place in my home. More listening to follow...


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I received my HD 800's today.
> 
> I spent a nice 2 or 3 hours with them tonight just getting to know them. Played with a few amps and casual A/B with my D7000's (Lawton modded).
> 
> ...


 
   
  My experience with the Lyr is quite different to yours.   I have found it really transparent, and the HD800 reflects tube switches better than any other headphone I have tried.   What tubes are you using with it?  If you're just using stock or the GE or JJ tubes that come with it yeah, it's going to suck, but put some good NOS tubes in it and it is a different beast altogether.  Try them with some Siemens, Lorenz or Telefunken tubes and you might be surprised.
   
  Edit: The Lyr and Denons have a horrid synergy as well, they are simply too sensitive for this amp and is just about the worst pairing imaginable.   The Lyr is simply not meant for Denons and it's quite sad considering they are so much fun to listen to.


----------



## Maxvla

What you are hearing on Dire Straits and The Police is DYNAMIC RANGE, in all of it's glory. Glad you like the 800s. As for the Denon not dropping detail, keep listening. Your opinion on that WILL change.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





toschek said:


> My experience with the Lyr is quite different to yours.   I have found it really transparent, and the HD800 reflects tube switches better than any other headphone I have tried.   What tubes are you using with it?  If you're just using stock or the GE or JJ tubes that come with it yeah, it's going to suck, but put some good NOS tubes in it and it is a different beast altogether.  Try them with some Siemens, Lorenz or Telefunken tubes and you might be surprised.


 
   
  Yes, it was the stock tubes. It's not my amp, so I don't have that luxury unfortunately.
  Quote: 





maxvla said:


> What you are hearing on Dire Straits and The Police is DYNAMIC RANGE, in all of it's glory. Glad you like the 800s. As for the Denon not dropping detail, keep listening. Your opinion on that WILL change.


 
   
  I agree they definitely have dynamic range, but that's not what I'm talking about. These albums have an "etched" sound to me. Like watching a soap opera shot on HD video instead of a movie shot on film, if that makes sense. Like wearing polarized sunglasses - they are just too extremely crisp and clean. For comparison, if you're familiar, a well recorded album that I think sounds particularly "natural" is "Ingenue" by k.d. lang.
   
  I do agree I need to spend more time with the HD 800's and get familiar with them - it's only been a few hours so far...


----------



## Maxvla

It's going to take a while to get used to HD800 after living with D7000 for a long time.


----------



## Girls Generation

Palmfish, looks like you ate crow? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   


maxvla said:


> It's going to take a while to get used to HD800 after living with D7000 for a long time.


   


  Same here since I've been with an LCD2 for such a long time...


----------



## toschek

I went from HD700 to HD800 so it was more of an "oh I see what you did there" incremental sort of thing, and yet not at the same time if that makes any sense. Are the 800s "worth" more than the 700s objectively? Absolutely. The HD700s are fun but not for serious listening at all. 

I am really happy with the HD800 as my "endgame" headphones, I have no interest in anything else other than as a novelty.


----------



## Pudu

palmfish said:


> ...
> 
> Funny though, when I compared the amps with my D7000, my findings were very different.
> 
> ...




Of all the amps I've tried (not many), I prefer the D7k on vintage iron the best.


----------



## korzena

Anybody with HD-800 in Krakow (Poland) or nearby?
  I would love to audition them. Unfortunately they are not available in the local stores.
  I have LCD-2 rev.2 and HE-400 available for audition in exchange


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Palmfish, looks like you ate crow?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Maybe just a little wing ..  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I have noticed that every Sennheiser I've owned (598, 600, 650) has some degree of bloat in the bass with my Carver. The 600's were relatively mild but the 650's were the worst.
   
  I thought the 800 would be different, but the more I listen, the more I realize that it's the same issue again with them (although relatively mild like the 600's). I can't help wondering if its the Sennheiser "house impedance curve" at work here.


----------



## nigeljames

The one thing the HD800's do not have is bloated bass. The cheaper Senn's do to varying degrees but if your HD800's has bloated bass then look to your amp or source as the cause.


----------



## Frank I

I have never hear the bass bloated on my HD800. It excellent bass well extended and very tight with great inner detail. Could be something else in your chain causing bass bloat.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Could be something else in your chain causing bass bloat.


 
   
  That is in fact what he said   Only happens on his Carver and only with Senns and their monstrous impedance around 100Hz.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





solude said:


> That is in fact what he said   Only happens on his Carver and only with Senns and their monstrous impedance around 100Hz.


 
  and your point


----------



## bearFNF

^^^ding ding...round one
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The more I listen to my HD800 the more my other cans seem to be not as needed...just need to audition some amps for them now.


----------



## Maxvla

Yes, other cans just seem useless after HD800s.


----------



## palmfish

OK, so I shifted my paradigm a bit today. Instead of listening to D7000 "reference tracks" I switched to "audiophile tracks" that i thought were to shrill and harsh in the past. Heres a few:
   
  Dire Straits "Brothers in Arms"
  Steely Dan "Gaucho"
  Donald Fagen "Morph the Cat"
  These sound extremely good on the HD800s. Also some I didnt expect to like on the Senns also sounded good, including the aforementioned k.d.lang album and Hugh Masekela "Hope" (Stimela was AMAZING!).
   
  But then there are the albums that just sound so thick and muddy such as Diana Krall "Look of Love" and Patricia Barber "Modern Cool."
   
  Well I'm back to my old dilemma - its simply very recording dependant. I do still hear a thickness on the HD800s that I will attribute to impedance incompatibility (for lack of a better explanation) with my Carver, but since the Burson sounded better, I know it's not the fault of the headphones, per se.
   
  I acknowledge that I am beginning to hear that the Senns are on a completely different playing field compared to the Denons. The even response (no hole in the lower midrange), the soundfield, seperation and placement of instruments and vicals, etc. are simply superb. I just have to keep listening and trying different amps - and then decide if i still like the Denons or if the 800's are so good that I'm willing to purchase a dedicated amp for them. I wanted to avoid this because 2 years ago, headphones were simply going to be a casual way to listen to music without disturbing family members. I really do enjoy the D7000s and their bass response is well suited to the quieter levels I usually listen at.
   
  At least I'm having fun...


----------



## TooPoor

Is it possible to get a great amp for under a grand? Am I wishful thinking? I can just feel(and hear) the lack of synergy with the Lyr (for me). That's why I'm trying to sell it. Mjolnir? Firestone Bobby? Ugh! A M^3 wouldn't get here till June (according to the builder).


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





> Originaly Posted by *palmfish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> At least I'm having fun...


 
  That's the important part.


----------



## Maxvla

Balanced:

Little Dot MKVIIISE if you are sticking with HD800. If you will be using HD800 and a few others, MKVI+ would be a better choice. Mjolnir if going SS is good at it's price.

Unbalanced:

Decware CSP2+


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Is it possible to get a great amp for under a grand?


 
   
  This one is easy.  Burson Soloist or HeadAmp GS-1.


----------



## Maxvla

GS-1 is discontinued, you'd have to find one used. Good luck with that.


----------



## s4s4s4

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> OK, so I shifted my paradigm a bit today. Instead of listening to D7000 "reference tracks" I switched to "audiophile tracks" that i thought were to shrill and harsh in the past. Heres a few:
> 
> Dire Straits "Brothers in Arms"
> Steely Dan "Gaucho"
> ...


 
  Hugh's Hope album is awesome. A must have in everyones collection.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





solude said:


> This one is easy.  Burson Soloist or HeadAmp GS-1.


 
  Hopefully Justin rethinks about bringing the GS-1 back.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Is it possible to get a great amp for under a grand? Am I wishful thinking? I can just feel(and hear) the lack of synergy with the Lyr (for me). That's why I'm trying to sell it. Mjolnir? Firestone Bobby? Ugh! A M^3 wouldn't get here till June (according to the builder).


 
  Keep you eyes on the for sale or call Parts Connextion and negotiate he will sell you a Burson Soloist for 750.00 shipped


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Balanced:
> 
> Little Dot MKVIIISE if you are sticking with HD800. If you will be using HD800 and a few others, MKVI+ would be a better choice. Mjolnir if going SS is good at it's price.
> 
> ...


 
  If he can buy blind, then for go for it, otherwise, he should definitely try to audition.
   
  The LD I feel is still a bad match for HD800 if he's feeling the Lyr is iffy.
   
  Mjolnir could be too aggressive for his taste, similarly, Soloist could be too laid back and boring.
   
  The Decware CSP could be the sweet spot.


----------



## TooPoor

Awesome info guys! Getting a house soon so have to be a little more conscientious of my spending habits. Then it will be on to speakers!


----------



## Maxvla

Yeah, Nick's CSP2+ and Concero combination with HD800 was really nice. Both units get great sound without having to bother with the additional costs of balanced operation. Really a killer rig for the money.


----------



## Frank I

I use the CSP2 and it is my best amp for the HD800 we will see if the ne wTaboo dethrones it but the CSP2 is awesome with the hd800


----------



## mink70

Hi, a question from a HD800 newcomer, if you'd humor me. Recently, I listened to the HD800 after auditioning the T1, LCD-2, and the HE-500. I went into s shop that sold them and listened with the modest source of iPod Nano 6G plugged into a JDS Labs C421 portable amp via a Fiio LOD. As soon as I began listening—within minutes—I knew these were the cans for me. The soundstage was cavernous, the detail breathtaking; the sound, for the first time with headphones, seemed to be floating outside my head. I stood listening for an hour, slack-jawed. Oh boy, thought I. So I bought the Senns, thinking that I would simply improve the amp and get even better sound.
   
  Not so fast, it turned out. I had a CTH (Cavalli Tube Hybrid) at home, which worked terrifically with the LCD-2, but with the Senns it sounded tubby and coarse and the airy soundstage had collapsed. So I went onto Head-Fi and bought a Bottlehead Crack, having heard about its great synergy with the HD6xx and HD800. To my surprise, I found the sound to be rather slow, bottom-heavy and undetailed. And again, that enormous soundstage was condensed into a ball inside the skull, making the HD800 sound like any other headphone. The rich sound complimented the Senns, but also played against their strengths. So I preferred the humble C421.
   
  Now let me say that I'm a tube guy. I've always listened to tubes, finding them to be tonally rich, present, resolving and weighty when done right, and I have hated solid state for its typically bleached, gray sound. But I consider the HD800 out-of-the-head soundstage to be amazing—and moving—and I'd love to find an amp that has the airy, detailed, and articulate sound that would highlight their strength. Any suggestions? Oh, and it would be awesome if it could come in under $1K.
   
  Thank you!!


----------



## Maxvla

Agreed with the CTH and Crack. CTH is really designed for other things, and the Crack is just not good (for anything).

If you want to stick with tubes and have a clean articulate sound and come in under $1k, look no further than the Decware CSP2+. (Highly recommend the Resonessence Concero if you are looking for a DAC as well.)


----------



## jazzerdave

maxvla said:


> Balanced:
> 
> Little Dot MKVIIISE if you are sticking with HD800. If you will be using HD800 and a few others, MKVI+ would be a better choice. Mjolnir if going SS is good at it's price.
> 
> ...


 
   
   


toopoor said:


> Is it possible to get a great amp for under a grand? Am I wishful thinking? I can just feel(and hear) the lack of synergy with the Lyr (for me). That's why I'm trying to sell it. Mjolnir? Firestone Bobby? Ugh! A M^3 wouldn't get here till June (according to the builder).


 

   
  For under $1,000, I'll highly recommend the CSP2+.  I personally prefer my Cavalli Liquid Glass, but it's not a complete landslide.  I own both, but sadly no HD800.  Anyone want to buy my LCD-3's?


----------



## longbowbbs

Another vote for the Decware CSP2+....Fantastic with the HD800's!


----------



## TooPoor

Is there such thing as love at first sight?? The CSP2+ looks awesome and it appears as though I can still use my present tubes too. Now if someone would just buy my schiit stack! Need... to... control...


----------



## silversurfer616

Just wanna pick something up that was said a few posts before:"after the HD800 you are not interested in anything else".
  I feel the same and still I am hoping for some more improvement but I know for me, it is not coming from a different headphone;it is more finding the right synergy with the other components in my system.
  Still,I am quite happy with my current balanced Phoenix amp and WooA6 for SE configuration.


----------



## MomijiTMO

Well I don't really fit very well. I have listened to my Paradox for months and only picked up the HD800 today.... and .... hmmm :S


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





solude said:


> This one is easy.  Burson Soloist or HeadAmp GS-1.


 
  + dna sonett


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Could anyone suggest me a USB Dac+solid state amp that pair well with the hd800?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Could anyone suggest me a USB Dac+solid state amp that pair well with the hd800?


 
   
  Budget?


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

1000ish I can go higher if needed though.


----------



## Solude

None I know of.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> 1000ish I can go higher if needed though.


 
   
   
  All in one?  Or separates?


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

either or is fine


----------



## aphex27

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> either or is fine


 
  I'm very satisfied with the ones in my sig. I don't have much experience though...


----------



## YoengJyh

Try EarMax Pro Silver Edition!


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Agreed with the CTH and Crack. CTH is really designed for other things, and the Crack is just not good (for anything).
> 
> If you want to stick with tubes and have a clean articulate sound and come in under $1k, look no further than the Decware CSP2+. (Highly recommend the Resonessence Concero if you are looking for a DAC as well.)


 
   
  Yeppers. Bottlehead products are great for learning how to solder and stain wood, but they don't beat the performance curve.
   
  At this point in time, Decware CSP+ and Concero is "the" price/performance tube amp/DAC pair for the HD800. Beyond that you'll spend 1.5x-2x total cost for incremental gains.
   
  I heard many different awesome rigs at the recent Head-Fi meet, but I left happy with what I have.


----------



## toschek

Does the Decware use 3x 6N1P/6922/6DJ8 tubes?  Assuming one is for the mono out and doesn't actually need to be populated unless you're using that output?


----------



## TWIFOSP

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> At this point in time, Decware CSP+ and Concero is "the" price/performance tube amp/DAC pair for the HD800. Beyond that you'll spend 1.5x-2x total cost for incremental gains.


 
   
  Can't argue here.  That combo definitely hits a sweet spot of bottom line vs performance.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Does the Decware use 3x 6N1P/6922/6DJ8 tubes?  Assuming one is for the mono out and doesn't actually need to be populated unless you're using that output?


 
   
  Yes, all three are required, but in my experience only the signal tube up front and rectifier are worth swapping out when using it as a headphone amp (preamp might be a different story?).
   
  If you are dead-set on swapping out the drivers, I'd advise against using 6DJ8/7308's... they might not be able to handle it.


----------



## Earthlight

How is the Audiolab M-DAC with the 800s?


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Yes, all three are required, but in my experience only the signal tube up front and rectifier are worth swapping out when using it as a headphone amp (preamp might be a different story?).
> 
> If you are dead-set on swapping out the drivers, I'd advise against using 6DJ8/7308's... they might not be able to handle it.


 
   
  Interesting, I have been using 6DJ8/6922/7308 as driver tubes with my Lyr with no problems.   It would be cool to only have to swap the input tube though.   What would your recommendations be for input tube and rectifier?   I have a pretty large collection of 6DJ8 type tubes already for the input stage, but I don't know much about rectifier types.
   
  I've pretty much decided to get a Decware Zen for a speaker amp if I don't get a Leben integrated & get rid of my Lyr instead.   If I go the route of buying the Zen I'll be using the Lyr as a pre-amp for a while.   The Zen looks good and I'm guessing it will do well with 100dB speakers (Zu Soul Superfly).


----------



## Maxvla

earthlight said:


> How is the Audiolab M-DAC with the 800s?




I thought the Gungnir was better and cheaper. The Resonessence Concero is still better and still cheaper than the Gungnir.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Yes, all three are required, but in my experience only the signal tube up front and rectifier are worth swapping out when using it as a headphone amp (preamp might be a different story?).
> 
> If you are dead-set on swapping out the drivers, I'd advise against using 6DJ8/7308's... they might not be able to handle it.


 
  I use the Bugle Boy 6dj8 and also sylvania  6dj8 and have zero issues with them,. i prefer the three bugle boys I am running now in the amp.  The Phillips 6dj8 line is old stock is hard to beat IMO. i currently use the csp2 as  a headphone amp only


----------



## Nick Dangerous

frank i said:


> I use the Bugle Boy 6dj8 and also sylvania  6dj8 and have zero issues with them,. i prefer the three bugle boys I am running now in the amp.  The Phillips 6dj8 line is old stock is hard to beat IMO. i currently use the csp2 as  a headphone amp only




OK good to know. I had one 7308 arc in the driver position and heard a few similar stories about 6DJ8's but I guess it's all about the luck of the (current) draw.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

toschek said:


> Interesting, I have been using 6DJ8/6922/7308 as driver tubes with my Lyr with no problems.   It would be cool to only have to swap the input tube though.   What would your recommendations be for input tube and rectifier?   I have a pretty large collection of 6DJ8 type tubes already for the input stage, but I don't know much about rectifier types.




Favorite input tube on the CSP+ so far is the Mullard old shield E88CC. Miniwatt Dario E188CC was also great but $$$!!! I also found the Mullard 7308 (ATC logo) had incredible midrange transparency but with the HD800 I needed a bit more bass.

Favorite rectifier for the money right now is the RCA 5Y3GT. Cheap and does many things right. EML mesh 5U4G is more detailed and quite nice but also 'spensive and rumored to be somewhat fragile. Brimar 5R4GY is superb for bass/midrange magic if a bit soft on top. Looking to try a Bendix 6106 and the "mighty 596" next...


----------



## longbowbbs

I found the USAF-596 really tightened up the lower end on the CSP2+. You do need an adapter for it though.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

thoughts on the essence one muses paired with the HD800?


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Agreed with the CTH and Crack. CTH is really designed for other things, and the Crack is just not good (for anything).
> 
> If you want to stick with tubes and have a clean articulate sound and come in under $1k, look no further than the Decware CSP2+. (Highly recommend the Resonessence Concero if you are looking for a DAC as well.)


 
   
  Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Yeppers. Bottlehead products are great for learning how to solder and stain wood, but they don't beat the performance curve.
> 
> At this point in time, Decware CSP+ and Concero is "the" price/performance tube amp/DAC pair for the HD800. Beyond that you'll spend 1.5x-2x total cost for incremental gains.
> 
> I heard many different awesome rigs at the recent Head-Fi meet, but I left happy with what I have.


 
   
  Interesting comments regarding the Bottlehead and Decware.  I'm enjoying my current SS amp with the Concero but have been curious to eventually dabble in a decent all tube amp just for the HD800 and don't really want it to just be a lateral move from my current amp.  I was considering the Crack + Speedball because it's affordable and I assumed it's in the same performance range as the Decware and such but it seems otherwise.  
   
  I've read alot of good things about the 2A3 amps like the EC 2A3 and DNA Stratus but $2500+ will be out of my range for a while.  Now i'm considering maybe Decware CSP2+ or DNA Sonett 2.  The CSP2+ is a little more affordable though.  I'm looking more for transparency and soundstage than mellowness.
   
  The Decware praise from Maxvla is valuable for me since the Bryston amp is a known variable for me and a SS amp I like very much.  There is a few other tube amps which seem interesting but are mostly unknown variables, such as SAC Thailand Minute EL34-SE and the new Yamamoto HA-03.  Just too few impressions though so far.  I did come fairly close to pulling the trigger on the EL34-SE though a while back.


----------



## Solude

I was interested in the CSP2 as an OTL option but the reviews kind of turned me off of it.  Without dancing around it too much the conclusion tends to be that its worth its asking price but it isn't a world beater


----------



## Maxvla

Most things aren't world beaters and you get what you pay for. It's good but its not a ZDSE or BA.


----------



## longbowbbs

It will be interesting to see how the new Taboo MK III stands up as an HD800 amp. The prototype was really good.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





solude said:


> I was interested in the CSP2 as an OTL option but the reviews kind of turned me off of it.  Without dancing around it too much the conclusion tends to be that its worth its asking price but it isn't a world beater


 
  Its much better than the Burson  I sold the Burson the CSP2 has outlasted all my other amps and I owned quite a bit. matter of fact it stomps the Burson


----------



## Solude

Then stay away from the GS-1 and GS-X


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





solude said:


> Then stay away from the GS-1 and GS-X


 
  I have


----------



## Solude

Hehe


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Most things aren't world beaters and you get what you pay for. It's good but its not a ZDSE or BA.


 
  It also less than half the price of those amps. I would venture to say using the csp2 with the Taboo may be a more fair comparison. i have not heard those two eddie current amps so i cant comment on them but if we are comparing 2500.00 amps we may want to do a comparison dollar for dollar and then that would be an interesting comparison.  I will be working with the two pieces over the next month to see what the differences are. I know there was a huge difference using the csp2 with the taboo MK11 when I owned that combo.  The dynamics jumped up a huge step on that combo with the preamp driving the Taboo. You are right most time you do get what you pay for and in the case of decware amps you usually get much more than you pay for IMO. YOMV i would like to hear the eddie current amps one day.


----------



## bearFNF

So I am thinking of the Decware CSP2+ for my HD800's but I would also like to run my HE500 off it you think it would be a good match?  Or if I get the CSP2+ with the HD800 are the HE500 even needed any more...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




???


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> So I am thinking of the Decware CSP2+ for my HD800's but I would also like to run my HE500 off it you think it would be a good match?  Or if I get the CSP2+ with the HD800 are the HE500 even needed any more...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The he500 is not a good match for the csp2 as the he500 is still only 89DB and likes power  and will clip the csp2 The hd800 is an excellent match and my amp of choice with my hd800,. IMO the hd800 steps up big time over the he500 but I love the he500 and  if I did not own the HD800 i would buy a he500.  if you wanted to keep both I would be looking at the woo 6SE which can handle the he500 as well as the hd800 and not much more money either except the tubes are kind of weird and all not new production tubes except the rectifier can be purchased new product and its hard to find good quality tubes for the woo but Jack has good stock.


----------



## bearFNF

Sweet, I will look into it. Thanks.


----------



## Maxvla

I had the WA6 and I've heard the WA6 SE and was not impressed with the HD800 combo. I had the WA6 for IEMs, not for full size hps.


----------



## Cante Ista

Edit


----------



## palmfish

Round 2 is coming up for me this Saturday. A friend of mine is bringing over his V200/800 stack and Woo Audio WA7. 
   
  I've pretty much decided that the HD800 does not pair well with my receiver. I suppose I must decide how serious I want to get with my headphone audio and whether or not I want to invest in an Amp and DAC for the sole purpose of enjoying the Sennheisers. The alternative is to just keep my D7000's that I have been enjoying (but not 100% satisfied with).
   
  I've never been interested in tube gear (well, not since 1972 anyways) but I admit I am curious about all this Decware talk here.
   
  I personally thought the HD800 sounded very good with the Burson HA-160D I tried last week, of course I had nothing "superlative" to compare it with.
   
  What does the Decware offer that other amps in the <$1000 market don't? Is it coloration/distortion that the 800s somehow need to sound good? Is it that artificial ambient sheen that some tube amps I've heard (Jolida) add to the music that people find appealing? I would have thought that for a headphone such as the HD800, a "wire with gain" would be the ideal match.


----------



## Maxvla

I thought the CSP2+ was rather 'solid state' in it's presentation. Clean and clear, not really tubey at all.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Round 2 is coming up for me this Saturday. A friend of mine is bringing over his V200/800 stack and Woo Audio WA7.
> 
> I've never been interested in tube gear (well, not since 1972 anyways) but I admit I am curious about all this Decware talk here.
> 
> ...


 
  I think the biggest difference in tube amps for me has always been about musicality. Usually soundstage is bigger and focus is more pinpoint with a more realistic tone that i hear live with the CSP2 and other tube amps I have owned. I am listening now to a sacd of the lA Guitar Quartet and it just sound so right with no electronic sound that I get from my solid state amps. I had the same experiences in my 2 channel rig when I owned the Conrad Johnson Premier 11A and CAT SL1 MK11 preamp. They always just sound so right and realistic to me. Thats been my love affair since 1994 with high quality tube amps in general. Decware amps are one of the biggest bang for buck amps in the marketplace and for the hd800 I have not owned or heard better than the csp2 in the 1K price range, Are there better? Sure but they will cost much more in my experience so far. What you get with the decware amp is a synergy with the nhd800 and sound smore like live music with greater musicality. The V200 similar price get close and has good musicality but the hd800 scales higher with the decware amp.  If you check my list I have owned quite a few and sold k=most all of them except the csp2 has been here for 3 hyears now and not gloing anywhere unless it get significantly outclassed by the newTaboo Mk111 and even then I may keep it as well because its an SET. SET triode amp IMO are hard to beat


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Round 2 is coming up for me this Saturday. A friend of mine is bringing over his V200/800 stack and Woo Audio WA7.
> 
> I've pretty much decided that the HD800 does not pair well with my receiver. I suppose I must decide how serious I want to get with my headphone audio and whether or not I want to invest in an Amp and DAC for the sole purpose of enjoying the Sennheisers. The alternative is to just keep my D7000's that I have been enjoying (but not 100% satisfied with).
> 
> ...


 
  Seems to me the Primary benefit of a Decware tube amp with the HD800's is you take some of the brightness out that annoys some people and you still keep all the dynamics and the great soundstage and placement. It is just as technically accurate, but you can listen for hours and still pick out things you never heard before. Tube rolling can let you tune things to taste. Tubes are cheap with Decware too.


----------



## palmfish

Im not interested in tube rolling in the least. So the Decware sounds good "out of the box?"
   
  Are modern tubes reliable? I can remember trips to Radio Shack back in the day to replace burned out tubes in my Heathkit.
   
  Are tubes consistentt from a production variation standpoint? If I get a Decware, will it sound the same as yours?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Im not interested in tube rolling in the least. So the Decware sounds good "out of the box?"
> 
> Are modern tubes reliable? I can remember trips to Radio Shack back in the day to replace burned out tubes in my Heathkit.
> 
> Are tubes consistentt from a production variation standpoint? If I get a Decware, will it sound the same as yours?


 
  You don't need to roll. It sounds great with the stock tubes. When I was at Decware last week and asked Steve how long his tubes were lasting he said 2-5 years with them on most of the time. Plus, since you can get 6N1P's for about $8 and 5Y3G or 5U4G's for $10-$15 it is not a big deal replacing them. I would be surprised if we were not hearing the same sound using the same tubes.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Im not interested in tube rolling in the least. So the Decware sounds good "out of the box?"
> 
> Are modern tubes reliable? I can remember trips to Radio Shack back in the day to replace burned out tubes in my Heathkit.
> 
> Are tubes consistentt from a production variation standpoint? If I get a Devware, will it sound the same as yours?


 
  The tubes Steve ship with them are russian tubes and they are reliable. he was using the Chinese rectifier not sure what he using now but I think upgrading them is what makes the amp really special. There are plenty of vendors to get reliable tubes that will be very reliable. i have bought Bugle Boys from Chris Johnson at Parts Connection Genelex 6922 from Jim McSsane and bought rectifiers on ebay all without any issues. i think if you buy reliable you get great tubes and the amp steps up in sound quality.  The 6n1p he ship with are decent tubes but they are not the genelex 6922 nor the Bugle Boys and I have others also so I can tune the sound and change the signature form time to time. The Decware with stock tubes is not as refined as the tubes I am using. the transparency and sound is a big step up IMO.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





frank i said:


> The tubes Steve ship with them are russian tubes and they are reliable. he was using the Chinese rectifier not sure what he using now but I think upgrading them is what makes the amp really special. There are plenty of vendors to get reliable tubes that will be very reliable. i have bought Bugle Boys from Chris Johnson at Parts Connection Genelex 6922 from Jim McSsane and bought rectifiers on ebay all without any issues. i think if you buy reliable you get great tubes and the amp steps up in sound quality.  The 6n1p he ship with are decent tubes but they are not the genelex 6922 nor the Bugle Boys and I have others also so I can tune the sound and change the signature form time to time. The Decware with stock tubes is not as refined as the tubes I am using. the transparency and sound is a big step up IMO.


 
   
  And that's exactly NOT what I want to hear...
   
  "The SUX4000 is a great amp but it sounds even better with if you put zebrawood rings over the tubes and place it inside a 13.5" high magnesium pyramid tube frame...on Tuesdays and the first 3 days of the waning moon. During a waxing moon, replace the pyramid with a beachball surrounded by chicken wire and burn incense..."


----------



## bearFNF

ROFL 
   
  So Cherry or Maple?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> And that's exactly NOT what I want to hear...
> 
> "The SUX4000 is a great amp but it sounds even better with if you put zebrawood rings over the tubes and place it inside a 13.5" high magnesium pyramid tube frame...on Tuesdays and the first 3 days of the waning moon. During a waxing moon, replace the pyramid with a beachball surrounded by chicken wire and burn incense..."


 
  LOL well I can lie to you if you prefer
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I am being totally honest. Better tubes than the stock make a big differenc ein sound quality IMO. You can stay stick if you want but I even switched the driver in the Taboo and noticed a big jump in sound from one tube swap. Ask others and get more opinions. the beauty of a 6922 amp there is so many great NOS tubes available that sound very different and very musical compared to the stock.. But yiou can do what makes you happy dude its your call. I told you my honest opinion and I don't use other stuff on my tubes. Or maybe you should just stay away from tube amps


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> I thought the CSP2+ was rather 'solid state' in it's presentation. Clean and clear, not really tubey at all.


 
  Agreed. IMO, most SS amps best it. It doesn't really have the macro detailing other tube amps offer.
   
  Still a really nice amp at its price though.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





frank i said:


> LOL well I can lie to you if you prefer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Don't get me wrong Frank, I wasn't putting you down. I understand the fun and challenge of tuning gear to make it better and make it yours. I just don't want to do it with audio gear, that's all.


----------



## Solude

No mystery there.  Tube amp with little to no feedback means tube rolling gives wildly different results.  The problem is its an expensive game if you want the 'best' tubes.  I remember looking at the Mullard for my Peak and just shaking my head.  You want how much?   You can easily have $600 of tubes in the CSP2 and man you better love it or you'll be looking for another $600 load out :O  I loved the EML 5U4G in my WA22 but bend over cause it stings.  Even for my Peak I was in for ~$500 in just rolled tubes and that only has the one 6SN7!  Tubes are awesome but also too easy to get carried away wanting to try this and that.  It's why I never pulled the trigger on a 2A3 or 300B amp


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Don't get me wrong Frank, I wasn't putting you down. I understand the fun and challenge of tuning gear to make it better and make it yours. I just don't want to do it with audio gear, that's all.


 
  You asked if stock would sound the same as mine and I was honest No it wont it will sound good you will like it and be happy but it can get better if you want it to. You can stay stock and be happy for 3-5yrs before replacing the tubes. But if you dont want to replace tubes then solid state  may beyour ticket and the V200 is synergistic with the HD800 just not as good as my tube amp. I use both but the decware gets the bulk of my time with the hd800


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





solude said:


> No mystery there.  Tube amp with little to no feedback means tube rolling gives wildly different results.  The problem is its an expensive game if you want the 'best' tubes.  I remember looking at the Mullard for my Peak and just shaking my head.  You want how much?   You can easily have $600 of tubes in the CSP2 and man you better love it or you'll be looking for another $600 load out :O  I loved the EML 5U4G in my WA22 but bend over cause it stings.  Even for my Peak I was in for ~$500 in just rolled tubes and that only has the one 6SN7!  Tubes are awesome but also too easy to get carried away wanting to try this and that.  It's why I never pulled the trigger on a 2A3 or 300B amp


 
  I paid 150.00 for three hand selected Bugle Boy tubes for the csp2 and 20.00 for the Sylvania rectifier so for 170.00 I am convinced its as good as it get for ME in my system. i have never paid 600.00 for any tubes in this amp . What was the one tube in your Peak for 500.00 lined with gold
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The bigle biys were hand selected by Chris Johnson at parts Connexion  for low noise and matched accordingly.


----------



## palmfish

Again Frank, if I offended you, please accept my apology. I was not disparaging you or your love of experimenting with tube equipment.
   
  I was simply expressing (satirically) that I do not want to venture forth on yet another audio quest.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Again Frank, if I offended you, please accept my apology. I was not disparaging you or your love of experimenting with tube equipment.
> 
> I was simply expressing (satirically) that I do not want to venture forth on yet another audio quest.


 
  no offense was taken dude. i am just trying to tell you the truth. Like I said you can be happy with stock tubes but the quest does not have to be taken unless you want better sound. That was my pint. You asked if stock would sound like my amp and I was just being honest. I did not get offended though. It been a pleasant discussion so no prob;lens on my end. Please do not think I was offended. If you buy the CSP2 you will like the sound on the hd800. If you prefer solid state consider the V200


----------



## palmfish

I apprecite your input and advice Frank. It has been helpful and informative to me. Thanks.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> ...if I get the CSP2+ with the HD800 are the HE500 even needed any more...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Nope.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

(said with a twinge of silly)


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





frank i said:


>





> What was the one tube in your Peak for 500.00 lined with gold
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thought that might not come out right.  I had $500 in tubes for the Peak in the end.  Not singular, $500 for the collection.   Now if instead of the Peak I had a Super7... $3500 :O


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





frank i said:


> no offense was taken dude. i am just trying to tell you the truth. Like I said you can be happy with stock tubes but the quest does not have to be taken unless you want better sound. That was my pint. You asked if stock would sound like my amp and I was just being honest. I did not get offended though. It been a pleasant discussion so no prob;lens on my end. Please do not think I was offended. If you buy the CSP2 you will like the sound on the hd800.* If you prefer solid state consider the V200*


 
  I would check out the GS-1 from headamp. Great amp in its price range. You may also like the SPL Phonitor. To keep it under a 1000 USD get it used. It pairs really well with HD800 and the crossfeed is really nice, especially if you listen to older rock recordings -- like zeplin, etc -- that may have the guitar recorded in just one channel. The corss feed really moves the music in front of your head. Most of all though, HD 800 does not sound hash on it. That is at least what others have said. To me they never sounded harsh.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> I would check out the GS-1 from headamp. Great amp in its price range. You may also like the SPL Phonitor. To keep it under a 1000 USD get it used. It pairs really well with HD800 and the crossfeed is really nice, especially if you listen to older rock recordings -- like zeplin, etc -- that may have the guitar recorded in just one channel. The corss feed really moves the music in front of your head. Most of all though, HD 800 does not sound hash on it. That is at least what others have said. To me they never sounded harsh.


 
  I am very happy with my amps and will be checking out the new taboo Mk111 I dont want any more solid state amps. I like my V200 and tube sis and will always be my preference


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> I would check out the GS-1 from headamp. Great amp in its price range. You may also like the SPL Phonitor. To keep it under a 1000 USD get it used. It pairs really well with HD800 and the crossfeed is really nice, especially if you listen to older rock recordings -- like zeplin, etc -- that may have the guitar recorded in just one channel. The corss feed really moves the music in front of your head. Most of all though, HD 800 does not sound hash on it. That is at least what others have said. To me they never sounded harsh.


 

 GS-1 is discontinued, but there is a hope that Justin will still be making them based on market demand.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> GS-1 is discontinued, but there is a hope that Justin will still be making them based on market demand.


 

 Really?! Sometimes I stalk Justin's site to look at the GSX pictures and drool. GS-1 still appears on the site. THen again the GSX pic are of MK1 configuration, so maybe it will soon be updated. sorry for wrong info


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> Really?! Sometimes I stalk Justin's site to look at the GSX pictures and drool. GS-1 still appears on the site. THen again the GSX pic are of MK1 configuration, so maybe it will soon be updated. sorry for wrong info


 

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/112029/the-gs-1-thread/495#post_8967628
   
  But as Justin says in that thread "it can return".


----------



## BournePerfect

Can't say I was impressed with my Dynalo/HD800 combo when I tried it. Sure it was very detailed and resolving, but brittle, harsh, and lacking bass impact imo. Not sure how much a GS-1 could improve over that. My ZDSE proved to be just the ticket for the Senn, fixing all the weaknesses if you will, while not sacrificing the Dynalo's speed and clarity-much to my surprise. My .02.

-Daniel


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Can't say I was impressed with my Dynalo/HD800 combo when I tried it. Sure it was very detailed and resolving, but brittle, harsh, and lacking bass impact imo. Not sure how much a GS-1 could improve over that. My ZDSE proved to be just the ticket for the Senn, fixing all the weaknesses if you will, while not sacrificing the Dynalo's speed and clarity-much to my surprise. My .02.
> 
> -Daniel


 

 You should really try it, esp. with new modules, honey to the ears. Harsh, brittle and lacking bass would be the last words I would use describing how HD800 sound out of it, as it's smooth like a pudding with bass to spare. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Sure it wasn't the source problem as the design is pretty transparent "wire with the gain"?


----------



## toschek

How is the Red Wine Audio Signature 15 or 16 with HD800s?  Anyone tried it?


----------



## BournePerfect

andrew_wot said:


> You should really try it, esp. with new modules, honey to the ears. Harsh, brittle and lacking bass would be the last words I would use describing how HD800 sound out of it, as it's smooth like a pudding with bass to spare. :bigsmile_face:
> 
> Sure it wasn't the source problem as the design is pretty transparent "wire with the gain"?




Nope-I've used the same sources in conjunction with my ZDSE to great effect. I am looking for a highend ss amp to compliment my Zana though, and have always been intrigued by the Phonitor/Auditor more than any other. So if my EC Kraken plans don't come to fruition, I most certainly see an SPL in my near future. Plus I don't wanna wait x amount of months on a GS-X that would probably be a lateral move with the SPLs, for an HD 800 anyway.

-Daniel


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Nope-I've used the same sources in conjunction with my ZDSE to great effect. I am looking for a highend ss amp to compliment my Zana though, and have always been intrigued by the Phonitor/Auditor more than any other. So if my EC Kraken plans don't come to fruition, I most certainly see an SPL in my near future. Plus I don't wanna wait x amount of months on a* GS-X that would probably be a lateral move with the SPLs, for an HD 800 anyway.*
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
   








 - We sure shall see..


----------



## Maxvla

Disagree with that statement quite a lot. The Phonitor is interesting because of its tools, not its amping ability. There are many amps I would choose both SS and tube if I was not interested in the tools of the Phonitor. I've heard both.


----------



## BournePerfect

I've heard neither-this simply based on a lot of reading about both amps, and strengths of each are remarkably similar-at least in regards to high impedance headphones. The GS-X would seemingly pull ahead with low impedance cans and the balanced factor-neither of which I need at this point. There are more than a few Headfiers who have felt the same based on listening impressions. So based on that-plus my prior experience with a well built Dynalo-it makes more sense for me to try an Auditor next. I'm not really concerned with the Phonitor's bells and whistles, but I do think it's a gorgeous amp.



-Daniel


----------



## cucera

I am at the same point now, really love the HD800 but still need HE 500 for Rock. If the amp could only solve this...


----------



## TWIFOSP

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Disagree with that statement quite a lot. The Phonitor is interesting because of its tools, not its amping ability. There are many amps I would choose both SS and tube if I was not interested in the tools of the Phonitor. I've heard both.


 
   
  The phonitor, just as an amp, with all of the tools off gets you about 99% of the way of the Bryston.  The BHA has a nicer energy to it though.  The phonitor is a great amp, just *way *over priced.


----------



## BournePerfect

Hence the $900 Auditor...

-Daniel


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Disagree with that statement quite a lot. The Phonitor is interesting because of its tools, not its amping ability. There are many amps I would choose both SS and tube if I was not interested in the tools of the Phonitor. I've heard both.


 
  Phonitor is great for its tools! I own it and i do enjoy it with my hd800. however I have heard my hd800 with the new GSX and it was def few steps higher. The full on balanced drive of GSX def brought better extension on both ends.


----------



## preproman

Hate to be the one that breaks the news.   Dynalo is old news at this point in time.  New modules in the GS-X.  Thus the name GS-X mk2.


----------



## palmfish

I got to hear the HD800 with the Phonitor and Sony 555ES SACD player not too long ago.
   
  It sounded bright and piercing to my ears.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I got to hear the HD800 with the Phonitor and Sony 555ES SACD player not too long ago.
> 
> It sounded bright and piercing to my ears.


 
  I have heard that its way bright type of amp from a few people who heard it also. I know Wuss had one and El Doug also both got rid of them. Coming from tube amps I can listen to bright and thats why I like the v200/. Any other owners should chime in and describe the sound. I have never heard one.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I got to hear the HD800 with the Phonitor and Sony 555ES SACD player not too long ago.
> 
> It sounded bright and piercing to my ears.


 
  you sure it it was not something else - other than the cans.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> you sure it it was not something else - other than the cans.


 
   
  I've narrowed it down to either the headphones, the amp, the SACD player, or the album.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I've narrowed it down to either the headphones, the amp, the SACD player, or the album.


 
   
   
  Now that's a good observation.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Hate to be the one that breaks the news.   Dynalo is old news at this point in time.  New modules in the GS-X.  Thus the name GS-X mk2.


 
   
  New modules are Dynalo modules.  Difference is the rail voltage and bias.  No circuit change hence Dynalo+.


----------



## toschek

Any opinion on the Luxman SQ-N100 with HD800s? I see OK reviews, but not much at all here on Head-Fi. Someone's got to have an opinion


----------



## BournePerfect

I didn't realize the wire with a gain Dynalo went out of style...also there are a few members here that claim the SPLs are the absolute best they've heard the HD800. Not thin. Not weak. Not sibilant. Hmm. maybe a lot of it comes down to source. Again I'm one to find out by trying one in my home for an extended period, which the Dynalo left me unimpressed with. I'll let you guys know what I think of the SPL if I purchase one soon. Carry on.

-Daniel


----------



## Solude

With your rig I'd almost go source hunting more than amp hunting.  DP1 has it's fans but a lot of haters too.  Might be interesting to see where a different source takes you.


----------



## BournePerfect

solude said:


> With your rig I'd almost go source hunting more than amp hunting.  DP1 has it's fans but a lot of haters too.  Might be interesting to see where a different source takes you.




I absolutely am 100% ecstatic with my rig now, and the Eximus is a big reason why. It's the most musical and transparent dac I've heard so far, and an exceptional mate for the HD 800 imo. It's even the best ss amp I've used with the Senn, and doesn't fall a huge gegree behind my ZDSE honestly. That said I do have my DP-1 listed for sale, but more out of curiosity than upgraditis' sake. I'm curiou to hear a highend NOS dac in my rig next as I've always loved their sound. I may very well regret selling it though-as any time I've been this ecstatic with my rig, I usually end up missing some of the synergy by swapping pieces. Time will tell I suppose-but I'm also already regretting the day someone buys my Eximus lol. Damn hobby.

-Daniel


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Metrum Hex hunting maybe?


----------



## BournePerfect

Thinking of either an AN 3.1 or Hex currently. I wish one had a built in amp though-especially after hearing the nice built in one of the Eximus. That's why I want another ss amp-in case I sell the DP-1 so I don't have to fire up the Zana all the time.

-Daniel


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I absolutely am 100% ecstatic with my rig now, and the Eximus is a big reason why. It's the most musical and transparent dac I've heard so far, and an exceptional mate for the HD 800 imo


 
  May be I missed it in one of your previous posts but why you are looking for something else if it's already "ecstatic" as it is?


----------



## BournePerfect

Like I said-more curiousity than anything. I've learned firsthand that the HD 800 can scale higher and higher with 'better' equipment. Guess I'm curious about that last 3% lol, and I'm confident a NOS dac design at this level will provide the greatest variable-for better or worse.

-Daniel


----------



## MomijiTMO

andrew_wot said:


> May be I missed it in one of your previous posts but why you are looking for something else if it's already "ecstatic" as it is?







bourneperfect said:


> Like I said-more curiousity than anything. I've learned firsthand that the HD 800 can scale higher and higher with 'better' equipment. Guess I'm curious about that last 3% lol, and I'm confident a NOS dac design at this level will provide the greatest variable-for better or worse.
> 
> -Daniel




Because he's an audiophille with too much disposable income . And a lucky bugger too. 

PS: I really like my Metrum Octave with my HD800.


----------



## BournePerfect

No this where all of my disposable income goes... :/ 

-Daniel


----------



## myc

I think you should look into AudioNote Dacs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
   
  http://www.alldacinfo.com/?page_id=242


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I didn't realize the wire with a gain Dynalo went out of style...also there are a few members here that claim the SPLs are the absolute best they've heard the HD800. *Not thin. Not weak. Not sibilant*. Hmm. maybe a lot of it comes down to source. Again I'm one to find out by trying one in my home for an extended period, which the Dynalo left me unimpressed with. I'll let you guys know what I think of the SPL if I purchase one soon. Carry on.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  That is absolutely true! I have the phonitor and and the sound is almost tubby. THere is no sibilance at all. However, I think the GSX provides more in terms of resolution, separation, and slightly extension up top and down low, which is probably because of the dual mono design. What the GSX has going for it also is that it is upgradable. With the GSX i think you have top of the line SS amplification. After that comes in I may get a better tube amp but will also likely focus on my source -- maybe even go vinyl - to complete my hd800 rig -- maybe the NAD network player and vault.
   
  BTW, there was a discussion in the HE6 thread about a thin wire in the HD800 that leads to the driver. The insinuation being made that it is a choke point and limits performance even when you recable the headphone. Does anyone know how good that cable is, and whether the short distance it spans actually needs a smaller AWG?


----------



## soullinker20

tried mine with Antelope Zodiac+ .. they sound great too


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Thinking of either an AN 3.1 or Hex currently. I wish one had a built in amp though-especially after hearing the nice built in one of the Eximus. That's why I want another ss amp-in case I sell the DP-1 so I don't have to fire up the Zana all the time.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  If the dac is the best you why would you sell it. A better solution would be to get a 30 day trial on another dac then keep the one you like the best. Lot more economical too even if you had a restock fee it cheaper than selling your dac and them reburying one. I also think whatever dac your interested in the dealer will let you have a demo product to audition. Just some friendly advice toi save you some grief f the new dac disappoints you and you have to buy  the dac you sold and lost money on for more money again. More disposable income means you can save that  loss for something else you want in the future.


----------



## BournePerfect

Agreed on all points Frank. Guess I'm just impatient enough to try to fund it sooner rather than later. I'll let you guys know what I decide. Thanks again.

-Daniel


----------



## TooPoor

I was so set on the CSP2+ but there's a 8-12 week lead time at the moment. I'd much rather buy something in stock (impulsive much?). So now I'm back to the sub $1k range... I'm thinking the V200 maybe? I prefer something with a warmer signature. Any reviews on the Firestone Audio Bobby? Project86 had mentioned it w/ the Concero.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> I was so set on the CSP2+ but there's a 8-12 week lead time at the moment. I'd much rather buy something in stock (impulsive much?). So now I'm back to the sub $1k range... I'm thinking the V200 maybe? I prefer something with a warmer signature. Any reviews on the Firestone Audio Bobby? Project86 had mentioned it w/ the Concero.


 
   
   
  What was the quote from SWA?


----------



## third_eye

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> I was so set on the CSP2+ but there's a 8-12 week lead time at the moment. I'd much rather buy something in stock (impulsive much?). So now I'm back to the sub $1k range... I'm thinking the V200 maybe? I prefer something with a warmer signature. Any reviews on the Firestone Audio Bobby? Project86 had mentioned it w/ the Concero.


 

 I don't think you can go wrong with the V200 in that price range and with a slightly warm signature.


----------



## TWIFOSP

Just fyi there's a super 7 on the FS forum.


----------



## TooPoor

Quote: 





preproman said:


> What was the quote from SWA?


 

  Never heard back on pricing, but he also gave me a June-ish delivery date.


----------



## Maxvla

Good things come to those who wait.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Never heard back on pricing, but he also gave me a June-ish delivery date.


 
   
  That's pretty good.  
   
  The experience you get by him taking you through each and every purchase of each and every item is great.  You pretty much get to build it with that parts you want (with in reason).


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





twifosp said:


> Just fyi there's a super 7 on the FS forum.


 
   
  ...and (potentially) a ZDSE #55. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  *pukes*
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Frank I

For anyone interested in a csp2 if I keep the taboo MK111 I may be selling the csp2 so if there is interest shoot me a PM. I want to keep it but I am tight on space and dollars. Not sure but will know Sunday what I am doing for sure


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





frank i said:


> For anyone interested in a csp2 if I keep the taboo MK111 I may be selling the csp2 so if there is interest shoot me a PM. I want to keep it but I am tight on space and dollars. Not sure but will know Sunday what I am doing for sure


 
  You'll regret it like me and my ZDSE I predict. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## TooPoor

Dibs!


----------



## Solude

For what you two would get, unless you have a better option in house, keep them.


----------



## Frank I

LOL If I decide to keep it then I will use both pieces again  together. I am thinking hard on it but the mk111 .   Will sleep on it for a few days


----------



## bearFNF

So, I was looking at the CSP2+ also but (with the 8-12 week wait) I was wondering if the Taboo MkIII would be a better option for the HD800 and my HE500...??


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> So, I was looking at the CSP2+ also but (with the 8-12 week wait) I was wondering if the Taboo MkIII would be a better option for the HD800 and my HE500...??


 
  Yes it would be b ether. The he500 does not play well on the csp2 but should sound  good on the Taboo Mk111


----------



## bearFNF

Thought as much may need to adjust the budget up then....heh, wallet just squealed a little there.


----------



## kazsud

Quote: 





twifosp said:


> Just fyi there's a super 7 on the FS forum.


 
  How does it pair w/ the 800s?


----------



## TWIFOSP

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> How does it pair w/ the 800s?


 
   
  Has very good synergy with the hd800, but you wont' go wrong with a CSP2 either.


----------



## bearFNF

So if I get the Taboo MkIII and I want balanced cables for the HD800 and HE500 what XLR pin do I need 3pin  or 4pin?   I have zero experience with balanced cables but I want to make sure I get the Taboo with the right connectors out of the gate.
   
  P.S. It's in the cart right now and I am ready to hit the "drain my wallet" button.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> So if I get the Taboo MkIII and I want balanced cables for the HD800 and HE500 what XLR pin do I need 3pin  or 4pin?   I have zero experience with balanced cables but I want to make sure I get the Taboo with the right connectors out of the gate.


 
  I like the 4 pin becaus eiots a single cable and the single ended adapter are less cumbersome that the dual 3 pin. This amp has the 4 pin


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> How does it pair w/ the 800s?


 
  I got to hear TWIFOSP's S7, Nick Dangerous's CSP2+, Maxvla's BHA-1, and my Liquid Glass with the HD800 at the Austin meet.  I also think you can't really go wrong with the S7 or CSP2+.  I personally prefer my LG, but you're not giving up that much for a significant reduction in price.


----------



## bearFNF

Well alrighty then it's 4 pin for me, then, too.  Thanks for the quick response.
   
  I should have also asked what cable would be good for both headphones (HD800 and HE500)?  I know this a touchy subject sometimes but hey I need to know...


----------



## longbowbbs

Listening to my HD800's right now on the CSP2+ with the SACD of Nick Drake's "A Treasury"...Magic!


----------



## Solude

The one you can   Not too many cable makers are game to build HD800 cables because of the tiny connectors.  The stock cable might be 36awg but the connector is closer to 44awg 
   
  A Cardas is likely the quickest to your door.


----------



## toschek

Hate to ask again, but has anyone tried HD800s with a Luxman SQ-N10 or SQ-N100?   Is it a good pairing?  
   
  I've seen exactly two reviews of the earlier iteration of this amp (the N100), both praising the headphone output (it is coupled to the tube output stage and I believe bypasses the output transformers, but I could be wrong about that).   The reviews were on 6moons and some UK site I'd never seen before.   6moons rates it better than Trafomatic's Experience Head One, Red Wine Audio's HPA and on par with a Leben CS-300XS.
   
  Anyway, it looks very nice and for the price seems solid.   It even has a built in MM phono stage!
   
  So, has anyone tried one of these and willing to share impressions?   The Lyr just doesn't seem quite up to the challenge of driving the HD800s with the level of clarity & sound stage that they are capable of.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





solude said:


> The one you can   Not too many cable makers are game to build HD800 cables because of the tiny connectors.  The stock cable might be 36awg but the connector is closer to 44awg
> 
> A Cardas is likely the quickest to your door.


 
  Was just looking at Moon audio...seems like a possability.  Not in a hurry for the cables gotta get tha amp first.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Well alrighty then it's 4 pin for me, then, too.  Thanks for the quick response.
> 
> I should have also asked what cable would be good for both headphones (HD800 and HE500)?  I know this a touchy subject sometimes but hey I need to know...


 
   
  I'd suggest Q.  Steve Eddy makes a modular system for the cables with an adapter for difference headphones (HE-500/HD800) for them to use cables designed for the Audeze preferred connectors (dual mini 4-pin XLRs).  You buy one cable and the adapters for each headphone.  It also takes the wear and tear off of the connectors that are a part of the headphone and moves it to the "earrings" as he calls them.  I have one and certainly find it convenient.


----------



## bearFNF

I think I have seen them, just forgot about he name.  I'll go check them out.  Thanks.
   
  I am now very deep in the rabbit hole...and lovin' it.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Someone else makes a cable with different ends on it. Good idea for these things. They can get expensive.


----------



## silversurfer616

As for the cable,I have a balanced ALO chain male cable for my LCD2 and Norse adapters for HD800 and Hifiman,so I can use the same cable for three different headphones.
  Saves a lot of money!


----------



## bearFNF

This may be a stupid question but, 4 pin XLR is still balanced right?  As apposed to the two 3 pin XLR set up...right?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> This may be a stupid question but, 4 pin XLR is still balanced right?  As apposed to the two 3 pin XLR set up...right?


 
  yes


----------



## bearFNF

Thanks,  just order the MKIII in cherry.  Now the waiting game begins...


----------



## Solude

Balanced headphones still only use 4 cables hence the 4pin XLR.  In dual 3s... only 2 pins are used on each.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





solude said:


> Balanced headphones still only use 4 cables hence the 4pin XLR.  In dual 3s... only 2 pins are used on each.


 
  Was wondering about that, thanks for the info.  it's good to learn something new every day, particularly if its about head-fi stuff


----------



## toschek

OK, I bit too. Reading about the Taboo got me excited. Read more and more and then it hit me ... I can use all the 6922 tubes, the price is much lower considering the retubing involved with a Luxman. So tonight I'm $1,500 poorer but I have a huge Cheshire grin on my face. 

Now I just have to wait and its already driving me nuts.


----------



## bearFNF

^^^ ditto the F5 key is gonna need back up on this one.


----------



## Maxvla

bearfnf said:


> This may be a stupid question but, 4 pin XLR is still balanced right?  As apposed to the two 3 pin XLR set up...right?



In a 2x3pin setup only 4 of 6 wires are actually connected, hence the 4 pin XLR becoming the (proper) standard.

edit: Beaten to the punch on the next page.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> In a 2x3pin setup only 4 of 6 wires are actually connected, hence the 4 pin XLR becoming the (proper) standard.
> 
> edit: Beaten to the punch on the next page.


 
  It's the thought that counts, thanks.  Now I just have to pick a cable for the phones...


----------



## jazzerdave

It's probably not noted often enough around here that the headphones themselves are not balanced nor is a 4-pin or dual 3-pin cable.  It's really the amp that is balanced or not.


----------



## Maxvla

Just semantics really, what is meant is connections capable of conveying the benefits of balanced amp topology. You are probably right to remind people though, always new people coming into the hobby that need to know that.


----------



## Solude

Pretty sure the Taboo is only balanced after the transformer from taps and otherwise single ended.  Like a backwards WA22 which is a balanced amp that is single ended after the transformer.


----------



## korzena

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Hate to ask again, but has anyone tried HD800s with a Luxman SQ-N10 or SQ-N100?   Is it a good pairing?
> 
> I've seen exactly two reviews of the earlier iteration of this amp (the N100), both praising the headphone output (it is coupled to the tube output stage and I believe bypasses the output transformers, but I could be wrong about that).   The reviews were on *6moons *and some UK site I'd never seen before.   *6moons rates it better than* Trafomatic's Experience Head One, Red Wine Audio's HPA and on par with a Leben CS-300XS.


 
  Sorry, I don't know the paring, but I wouldn't trust 6moons' reviews too much. 6moons site = business&marketing for me, most of the time. And the vague language they use in their reviews doesn't win my trust either.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





korzena said:


> Sorry, I don't know the paring, but I wouldn't trust 6moons' reviews too much. 6moons site = business&marketing for me, most of the time. And the vague language they use in their reviews doesn't win my trust either.


 
   +1 .


----------



## toschek

Thanks, I had always wondered how skeptical about their reviews I should be. I am just going on light info, perhaps light for a good reason.


----------



## Solude

Personally I like 6moons for reviews.  Though I will agree that you need an audiophile dictionary to decode what is said most of the time.  It's almost too descriptive.  But they always show internal shots so anyone hiding behind a pretty face is going to look the fool pretty quickly.
   
  Case in point, 6moons ripped EddieCurrent a new one on their BA review and in turn EC made changes to correct the problems.  For those who never read it, they loved the sound but found documentation and assembly lacking.


----------



## Solude

Very early impressions on my new B22 are that it looks fantastic but may not be as well suited to the HD800 as the Soloist.  Very early though and certainly not done the A/B yet.  In fact my Soloist is off the rack while I get a feel for the B22... again


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





solude said:


> Very early impressions on my new B22 are that it looks fantastic but may not be as well suited to the HD800 as the Soloist.  Very early though and certainly not done the A/B yet.  In fact my Soloist is off the rack while I get a feel for the B22... again


 
  really?! Good to know. I thought Beta with hd800 would have been hard to beat. keep us updated.


----------



## Solude

Mosfets and high impedance generally don't get along too well.  Which is not to say I doesn't sound good, just that it's not optimal.


----------



## longbowbbs

So my Wife is running the soundboard for the High School play (She is really good at it too!) She walks into the man cave and asks to borrow my HP's for the weekend on the board. She points to the HD800's  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I quickly grab the HD25-1 ii's and send her on her way.....Whew!


----------



## bearFNF

Close call there.  She needed the closed back phones anyway...Can't have the HD800's disrupting the play.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Close call there.  She needed the closed back phones anyway...Can't have the HD800's disrupting the play.


 
  Excellent point!


----------



## MomijiTMO

cante ista said:


> really?! Good to know. I thought Beta with hd800 would have been hard to beat. keep us updated.



I prefer the GS-1 over the B22 with the HD800. A lot of people sold the HD800 if going by that pairing alone.


----------



## brokenthumb

The HD800 laughs at everything I throw at it.  Listening to Pantera's "Far Beyond Driven" and it's like "is that all you got!"  These things never become confused on anything.  I'm thinking of loading up some Napalm Death next


----------



## myc

HD800 says: "So you only want to spend that much on source/amp, huh? You better throw me out of window 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




"


----------



## brokenthumb

No problem with Napalm Death either, everything is nicely separated.  I've yet to find any type of music the HD800 doesn't do well.  A true "Master of All Trades" to my ears.


----------



## Solude

Yep completely agree.  I'd almost go as far as to say that if you don't like the HD800 it's the other pieces in the chain you actually don't like 
   
  In my case my first attempt was with a Stello DA220 MK2 and a B22... meh.  Second attempt W4S DAC-2 and Apex Peak... ugh.  Now with the PWD2 and Soloist


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





myc said:


> HD800 says: "So you only want to spend that much on source/amp, huh? You better throw me out of window
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  you can totally get enjoy the HD800 with a reasonably priced gear. For a while I was listening to it via the DNA Sonett and PS Audio DL3 and it sounded very nice. You dont need to blow your entire pay check or house to enjoy your HD800


----------



## palmfish

My friend came by with his Violectric V200 and Woo Audio WA7 today. They sounded basically the same to me. My friend is a professional sound engineer and he claims to hear differences in micro detail, but I couldnt detect the subtle differences he described.

 He also brought his Beyer T90 and HD600 - both sounded bloated on my Carver - the T90 was absolutely awful - so muddy and bloated!

 All the headphones sounded great on the V200 

 For grins, we moved the V200 down to my home theater and compared it to the headphone output of my Pioneer Elite Class D AVR. Damned if I could tell any difference between them. Again, my friend pointed out some microscopic differences he could detect (the decay of a banjo pluck being minutely tighter defined on the V200 and more blurred on my Pioneer) but i couldnt hear it.

 I am reminded that most of the talk about amps and DACs here is pure hyperbole. I'm not saying differences don't exist, only that they are very subtle (or undetectable) to a casual listener. I've been an audiophile for 40 years but I definitely don't squint my eyes and play a 10 sec piece of banjo solo for 15 minutes to critique the amount of ringing I detect...LOL. After listening to the V200 (which is arguably a reference level headamp) back-to-back with my Jack of all Trades home theater receiver (with an unknown spec built-in headphone jack) I am more convinced than ever that I dont need an expensive head amp to make the HD800 sound good.

 And I have fallen in love with the HD800 - it is an incredible headphone that reproduces music like no other I have ever heard. It's balanced, musical, true to the source, fun, and open/airy all at once. No frequencies or colors jump out or draw attention - it's just an organic, natural sounding headphone. So now im thinking i will either find a good quality SS headamp and DAC to place next to my Carver, or move my Carver to my office system and replace it with a modern integrated amp with a good sounding built-in headphone output.


----------



## TooPoor

Ready... V200 v. Soloist... GO!
   
   I know they've been both been covered, but can anyone who has both give me their experiences having owned both?


----------



## preproman

My HD800 B22/(PWD2-Master 7) sounds pretty good to me..


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





preproman said:


> My HD800 B22/(PWD2-Master 7) sounds pretty good to me..


 
  now you;re just confusing me Preproman! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  but seriously, I wonder if we can figure out  what's at play that is creating this difference of opinion


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> now you;re just confusing me Preproman!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  It's that I never heard the Soloist.  So I can't compare..


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





preproman said:


> It's that I never heard the Soloist.  So I can't compare


 
  Well, I have heard that the BETA sound was almost tubby which I would suspect is a perfect match for the HD800. But then again, I dont know much about mosfelt and whosiwhatsit matching so perhaps there is more to the story


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> Well, I have heard that the BETA sound was almost tubby which I would suspect is a perfect match for the HD800. But then again, I dont know much about mosfelt and whosiwhatsit matching so perhaps there is more to the story


 
   
   
  I'll tell you what - That darn Master 7 helps with the detail retrieval more so than the PWD2 and the m51.  So far...


----------



## Solude

Weird Shahrose felt the PWD2 had better detail and smoother delivery but less bass and stage size than the M7.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I'll tell you what - That darn Master 7 helps with the detail retrieval more so than the PWD2 and the m51.  So far...


 
   
   
  Quote: 





solude said:


> Weird Shahrose felt the PWD2 had better detail and smoother delivery but less bass and stage size than the M7.


 
  you guys are making my head spin tonight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Just kidding, i understand that there are many variables that come into play. I was hoping we would be lucky to isolate one and nail it down! 
   
  Preproman, I will pick your brain about the Master 7 when you come for the DC meet. I am interested about master 7 to gsx to hd800 chain.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> Weird Shahrose felt the PWD2 had better detail and smoother delivery but less bass and stage size than the M7.


 
   
  Shahrose had the Ref. 7.1 not the Master 7..


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Shahrose had the Ref. 7.1 not the Master 7..


 
  fhiewwww, that makes me feel better


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Shahrose had the Ref. 7.1 not the Master 7..


 
  That's what I was thinking. Too hard to keep up with Kingwa.


----------



## preproman

Seems like he's slowing down now.  But hell - as soon as I say that - I better look on his page to make sure.  Never know with him..


----------



## FlySweep

I'm a little late to the party, but I (finally) Anax-modded my HD800 last night.. been listening with it most of today via my (tube & solid state) desktop rig and transportable rig (Meridian Explorer/Objective2).... and I _love_ what this little mod has done.  I didn't have any issues with the stock HD800 (as I've mentioned before) so I did the Anax mod out of curiosity more than anything.  It seems to gently diffuse the energetic, slightly bright sound.. without compromising resolving ability.  The HD800's remains immensely enjoyable (yes, even from the *gasp* O2).  The treble & upper treble has a clear, smooth,"liquid"-like quality to it which I love.
   
  I'll also echo what others have said about the HD800's versatility.. I can rock out to it with everything.  Independent hip hop, Drum & Bass, fusion.. everything just sounds phenomenal.  Definitely and 'end-game' phone for me.


----------



## preproman

I also listened to a Anax modded HD800 tonight.  IMO  - it completely restricted the sound stage.  No thanks.  I'll keep mine stock.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I also listened to a Anax modded HD800 tonight.  IMO  - it completely restricted the sound stage.  No thanks.  I'll keep mine stock.


 
  I have tried that a while back and I totally agree!!! just get the audeze if you find the hd 800 annoying


----------



## Shahrose

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I also listened to a Anax modded HD800 tonight.  IMO  - it completely restricted the sound stage.  No thanks.  I'll keep mine stock.


 
   
  x2. Same effect for me.


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





preproman said:


> It's that I never heard the Soloist.  So I can't compare..


 
  FWIW, I'm currently toying with the Idea of getting a Soloist for my HD800, mostly to see if it would be a step up from the SA-31 or more of a lateral move, though I suspect the latter.  Unfortunately it would require me selling the SA-31 first as well as my AD2KX, so I couldn't compare them side by side.  And I have to admit the Burson looks far better than my Audio-GD unit and seems to take up less desk space.


----------



## TooPoor

I don't remember reading anyone trying the WA7... anyone try it with the HD800s?? I'm down to the Soloist, V200, and now curious about the WA7. Lyr is sold, so now I just am using my portable rig (Apex Glacier + Sig Pros) and not able to use the HD800s so time is an issue! I think I might be getting depressed...


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> I don't remember reading anyone trying the WA7... anyone try it with the HD800s?? I*'m down to the Soloist, V200, and now curious about the WA7.* Lyr is sold, so now I just am using my portable rig (Apex Glacier + Sig Pros) and not able to use the HD800s so time is an issue! I think I might be getting depressed...


 
  what about Super7?


----------



## Spakka

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> what about Super7?


 
   
   
  Or an Icon Audio?


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Shahrose had the Ref. 7.1 not the Master 7..


 
  Only difference between the two is the digital receiver.  No change to power supply, dac or analog output.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> Only difference between the two is the digital receiver.  No change to power supply, dac or analog output.


 
   
  Not sure about that.  I think more has been changed.  I will ask to verify.


----------



## Solude

No need, just look at them.  Only board that is different is the input board.  Not being able to see what is under the DSP board on the 7.1 I can't know for sure if even the board is different or just has a different layout so it doesn't need the daughter board.


----------



## Shahrose

I'd agree with you Regis from looking solely at the board, but there apparently have been more extensive changes, especially to the DSP.
   
  Darryl, read my earlier posts in the M7 thread for the answer. Kingwa emailed me the details a while back that I copy/pasted there.


----------



## Solude

Read your post and the presser.  Only the DSP, which is the digital receiver/glue logic, was changed.  Dumbing it down the M7 is a Ref7.1 w/ JKSPDIF Mk3 integrated


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

I have a pair of brand new HD800 in box, I was thinking of putting them up in the market for sale. What should I ask for them price wise?


----------



## paradoxper

Maybe $1100


----------



## Solude

Sounds about right for near new.


----------



## Maxvla

Sounds like it isn't near new, but new in box as he indicated.


----------



## Solude

Still $1100.  Brand new to your door taxes in is $1300 so... ya.


----------



## bearFNF

I'm thinking NIB you can get $1300+USD 
  Brand new from a dealer is going for $1499 right now.
   
  Used 'Like New' are going for $1299 to $1399...on amazon marketplace
   
  If it was used and not 'like new' $1100 would still be a very good price indeed.
   
  Oh yeah, I would add taxes and shipping to that price.  It's still less than you would be able to get the NIB form a dealer.


----------



## Solude

There is this place called Germany, German things cost less there


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





solude said:


> There is this place called Germany, German things cost less there


 
  Especially from a Dutch dude living in Germany.


----------



## bearFNF

It comes down to what the current going rate is for where you want to sell it, my reference is the US market.  I Did not look at where OICWUTUDIDTHAR is from...


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> I have a pair of brand new HD800 in box, I was thinking of putting them up in the market for sale. What should I ask for them price wise?


 
   
  What's a shame...I wouldn't ever think of parting with my HD800!


----------



## Solude

Nods, dump your amp


----------



## wink

This ^ in spades...


----------



## TooPoor

Decided to pull the trigger on a V200. Heard it pairs well with the HD800's... we shall see!


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Decided to pull the trigger on a V200. Heard it pairs well with the HD800's... we shall see!


 
   
  What DAC will you be using?


----------



## TooPoor

My Bifrost until I hear how the new Matrix X-Sabre is. Most likely I will be going with the Concero though...


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> My Bifrost until I hear how the new Matrix X-Sabre is. Most likely I will be going with the Concero though...


 
   
  Not the Invicta


----------



## TooPoor

At the moment it comes down to cost. I'm almost tapped out for buying myself 'toys'. Need to throw the brakes on a bit. I've already bought 3 $1000+ headphones and well over $1000 in gear in the past two months. My toy 'fund' is almost depleted!


----------



## Girls Generation

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> My Bifrost until I hear how the new Matrix X-Sabre is. Most likely I will be going with the Concero though...


 
   
  I'd go for Concero for V200 since you don't need balanced.


----------



## Frank I

The V200 sounds better into a balanced source if you have the opportunity to ppick up a source with a XLR input it sounds really good with the v200. iuse it balanced with my Oppo BDP95


----------



## TooPoor

Quote: 





frank i said:


> The V200 sounds better into a balanced source if you have the opportunity to ppick up a source with a XLR input it sounds really good with the v200. iuse it balanced with my Oppo BDP95


 

 And this is where I'm most conflicted when it comes to a DAC. The Concero seems like a great value. But I do want balanced source... Hopefully the Bifrost doesn't completely suck w/ the V200 so I can start depositing more money into the toy fund.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> And this is where I'm most conflicted when it comes to a DAC. The Concero seems like a great value. But I do want balanced source... Hopefully the Bifrost doesn't completely suck w/ the V200 so I can start depositing more money into the toy fund.


 
  I don tuse dac so i can say but the Oppo BDP95 IMO sounds best with a balanced inout form the amp. I think my Taboo MK111 going single ended also sound good through the V200 so its really a matte of what your system need most. The XLR interconnects are also more money. I use King Cobra by audioquesrt and they are 250.00 meter but I bought these as new ones for about 125.00 and they are excellent cables.


----------



## 282432

I purchased one from the FS section and just got it a few days ago. Man, these sure complement the D7000s well ! Next purchase shall be a V200 for my two babies


----------



## Taliesin

Dont you just love reading truthfull, accurate and well researched audio reviews. I know i do. Here is a great example of an amazingly correct review for a shining light in the audio review world.
https://kimstechblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/sennheiser-hd-700-vs-hd-800-which-is-best/


----------



## Nick Dangerous

If you need balanced output, the Matrix X-Sabre features a similar but slightly improved sound signature as the Concero (same family of Sabre chip) and features more inputs.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> Dont you just love reading truthfull, accurate and well researched audio reviews. I know i do. Here is a great example of an amazingly correct review for a shining light in the audio review world.
> https://kimstechblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/sennheiser-hd-700-vs-hd-800-which-is-best/


 
  Wow....I wonder if they even took them out of the box?


----------



## Girls Generation

Sorry but HD700 sounds like ****.
  Quote: 





taliesin said:


> Dont you just love reading truthfull, accurate and well researched audio reviews. I know i do. Here is a great example of an amazingly correct review for a shining light in the audio review world.
> https://kimstechblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/sennheiser-hd-700-vs-hd-800-which-is-best/


----------



## ValentinHogea

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> Dont you just love reading truthfull, accurate and well researched audio reviews. I know i do. Here is a great example of an amazingly correct review for a shining light in the audio review world.
> https://kimstechblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/sennheiser-hd-700-vs-hd-800-which-is-best/


 
   
  That dude/dudette should seriously start pleading the fifth.
   
  Edit: Wait is that even possible if the individual him/her-self is asking the incriminating question?


----------



## Taliesin

I dont think they even had them. If your going to make a pretend review at least google the products. Really saying they have active noise cancelling and are both closed back. But my favorite part is when they say the hd700 are bigger than the hd800 yet in the picture they posted the hd800 are clearly larger. I love folding up a pair of hd800 and putting them in a bag to use with my ipod.
That review is wrong in so many ways.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> That review is wrong in so many ways.


 
  Looks almost randomly generated. Perhaps a "made for adsense" website, but I don't see the ads.


----------



## Cante Ista

longbowbbs said:


> Wow....I wonder if they even took them out of the box?



Seriously. How was this even discovered? Does the OP actually read Kim's blog?!


----------



## Cante Ista

Btw, in case u all have not noticed, the hd800 actually also has a special microphone that lets u know the sounds in ur environment. It is very special and implemented in a way that totally negates the microphone for the noise canceling circuit. That one takes 4 aaa batteries that last for ever- I am so surprised that Kim did write about that tachnological achievement. Tbh I don't know if the 700 have that function as well- I have not heard these cans - but I think they do as well. ;-p


----------



## Spakka

I think you'll find you need to snap open the headband longitudinally, and insert watch batteries along the length of it. 
   
  I use my HD800 on construction sites, shooting ranges and rock concerts all the time from my phone and find they block out all outside noise. Beware you may lose awareness of your surroundings!


----------



## preproman

Well,  I actually found the HD700s to be pretty good.  Not better than Big Brother.  But I like them none the less.


----------



## Cante Ista

I





spakka said:


> I think you'll find you need to snap open the headband longitudinally, and insert watch batteries along the length of it.
> 
> I use my HD800 on construction sites, shooting ranges and rock concerts all the time from my phone and find they block out all outside noise. Beware you may lose awareness of your surroundings!


 

I know what you mean! It is the headphone of choice for all sledgehammer operators - saw that in " sledgehammer operator weekly". 

Ok I am done. People out my office are looking at me like I a crazy person laughing to myself. Thank u for playing.


----------



## Cante Ista

On serious note. I have never heard the 700. I heard it is a mix of 800 And 650 attributes.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> On serious note. I have never heard the 700. I heard it is a mix of 800 And 650 attributes.


 
   
  No, not exactly.  It's really it's own beast.   I liked them at first, but then I started listening to a lot of brass (mozart horn concertos, jazz - Miles Davis in particular) and the treble peaks were painful to my ears.   The solo Miles takes on "Prayer (Oh Doctor Jesus)" from Porgy & Bess for example was like having a root canal performed on my ears.   I felt like I was going to sustain permanent hearing damage if I kept listening so I skipped to the next track.   The treble on the HD700s can be seriously ugly.   Would not recommend these headphones to anyone now.


----------



## Cante Ista

toschek said:


> No, not exactly.  It's really it's own beast.   I liked them at first, but then I started listening to a lot of brass (mozart horn concertos, jazz - Miles Davis in particular) and the treble peaks were painful to my ears.   The solo Miles takes on "Prayer (Oh Doctor Jesus)" from Porgy & Bess for example was like having a root canal performed on my ears.   I felt like I was going to sustain permanent hearing damage if I kept listening so I skipped to the next track.   The treble on the HD700s can be seriously ugly.   Would not recommend these headphones to anyone now.


Wow! I had a totally dif impression. I would like to hear it actually. Maybe one day.


----------



## zigy626

I have only one concern about the Sennheiser HD800 and  that is paying full retail price for them. These headphones came out in 2009 almost 4 years ago. Should I be paying full price for technology that is 4 years old. When is Sennheiser coming out with the HD900's it could be anytime soon.


----------



## brokenthumb

Quote: 





toschek said:


> No, not exactly.  It's really it's own beast.  * I liked them at first, but then I started listening to a lot of brass (mozart horn concertos, jazz - Miles Davis in particular) and the treble peaks were painful to my ears.*   The solo Miles takes on "Prayer (Oh Doctor Jesus)" from Porgy & Bess for example was like having a root canal performed on my ears.   I felt like I was going to sustain permanent hearing damage if I kept listening so I skipped to the next track.   The treble on the HD700s can be seriously ugly.   Would not recommend these headphones to anyone now.


 
   
   
  Same here.  I really liked them at first, but as I continued to listen to more albums I was noticing too much sibilance.  They have a nice soundstage, tight bass, and are really comfy though.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





toschek said:


> No, not exactly.  It's really it's own beast.   I liked them at first, but then I started listening to a lot of brass (mozart horn concertos, jazz - Miles Davis in particular) and the treble peaks were painful to my ears.   The solo Miles takes on "Prayer (Oh Doctor Jesus)" from Porgy & Bess for example was like having a root canal performed on my ears.   I felt like I was going to sustain permanent hearing damage if I kept listening so I skipped to the next track.   The treble on the HD700s can be seriously ugly.   Would not recommend these headphones to anyone now.


 
   
   
  Miles trumpet can be a "Beast"    O  did I mention the pair I heard was modded?


----------



## Maxvla

zigy626 said:


> I have only one concern about the Sennheiser HD800 and  that is paying full retail price for them. These headphones came out in 2009 almost 4 years ago. Should I be paying full price for technology that is 4 years old. When is Sennheiser coming out with the HD900's it could be anytime soon.



When a new iPad is put on sale it stays at the same price (more or less) until the new version is put on sale a year later. This is no different than what you describe. However, with audio, it is more likely that the HD800 would continue to be made, and sell for the same price even after a successor is released because unlike an iPad, which has concrete specs that show objective AND subjective improvement each time, headphones are hard to quantify both objectively and especially subjectively. The chances of someone enjoying a HD800 successor more than the HD800 are 50/50. 

Looking at the HD700, which was clearly not meant to be an HD800 successor, but does show where Sennheiser's research took them after they had finished the HD800, doesn't lend any insight that an HD800 successor would actually improve upon the old guard.


----------



## toschek

If they made another high end headphone it would be the 800 or maybe 1000 and sell for probably like $1799 or $2000, maybe even more, and I sure would not anticipate any drop in the cost of the 800.
   
  If you don't want to pay full price, look for refurb or used.   I paid $1100 for mine, shipped & with 2 year extended warranty coverage from Crutchfield, you just have to watch stocks because they don't always have them in.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Miles trumpet can be a "Beast"    O  did I mention the pair I heard was modded?


 
   
  Yeah, I think that track will be one of my test tracks going forward.   I mean I know the trumpet there is meant to be piercing, for emotional effect, and listened to on the right headphones/speakers it's heart wrenching.  FWIW, the HD800 handles it superbly.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> When a new iPad is put on sale it stays at the same price (more or less) until the new version is put on sale a year later. This is no different than what you describe. However, with audio, it is more likely that the HD800 would continue to be made, and sell for the same price even after a successor is released because unlike an iPad, which has concrete specs that show objective AND subjective improvement each time, headphones are hard to quantify both objectively and especially subjectively. The chances of someone enjoying a HD800 successor more than the HD800 are 50/50.
> 
> Looking at the HD700, which was clearly not meant to be an HD800 successor, but does show where Sennheiser's research took them after they had finished the HD800, doesn't lend any insight that an HD800 successor would actually improve upon the old guard.


 
  Very true and I agree with you on the HD700. However I am the part of the iPad generation and I don't want to be the last guy who buys HD800 before the HD900 comes out. The first thing people like me would do is look at specifications, graphs and those marketing PR buzz words. I get your point regarding the quantitative improvements and that its different when it comes to Audio.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Very true and I agree with you on the HD700. However I am the part of the iPad generation and I don't want to be the last guy who buys HD800 before the HD900 comes out. The first thing people like me would do is look at specifications, graphs and those marketing PR buzz words. I get your point regarding the quantitative improvements and that its different when it comes to Audio.


 
   
  No need to worry... There is no technically better dynamic headphone available on the market for the last 4 years (!) and Sennheiser currently raised the price of HD800 in Europe due to very high demand. Buy the headphone as well as I did few weeks ago, you won't regret the decision.
   
  By the way, I guess the next Senns' flagship will be of electrostatic nature... And I am personally not interested (too expensive, not many great affordable amps to choose from). Another reason (in my view) why to go for it.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

What would your guys' recommendation be for a Amp+Dac (separate, or all in one, both fine) for the HD800  with a $1000 budget.


----------



## Maxvla

Resonessence Concero ($600) -> Matrix M-Stage HPA-1 ($260) = $860 + ship

I'd probably go for the HPA-1 w/USB for $30 more to have an extra DAC just because.

What this does is gives you a very high quality DAC that can also eventually be used as a convertor if needed and an amp that synergizes well with the HD800 and doesn't cost much so you won't lose much on it when you eventually upgrade from it. (and it is (both are actually) small enough to convert to a bedside/office rig if you upgrade past them)


----------



## Solude

Schiit BiFrost and Burson Soloist SL.  Whatever you do if budget limited... buy used.


----------



## Solude

For those without budget constraints...
   
  I just finished my B22 v GS-X mk2 A/B and it was a landslide win for the GS-X mk2.  Keeping it short and sweet it brings the LCD-3 liquid presentation and weight without losing anything the HD800 also wipes the floor with against the LCD-3.  Pure win 
   
  Should add, that's single ended :O


----------



## Girls Generation

Just got the Hd800 today. S/N 208xx but I haven't put them on yet. Burn in time!
  Quote: 





solude said:


> For those without budget constraints...
> 
> I just finished my B22 v GS-X mk2 A/B and it was a landslide win for the GS-X mk2.  Keeping it short and sweet it brings the LCD-3 liquid presentation and weight without losing anything the HD800 also wipes the floor with against the LCD-3.  Pure win
> 
> Should add, that's single ended :O


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Just got the Hd800 today. S/N 208xx but I haven't put them on yet. Burn in time!


 
  Always slackin'. Hurry up!


----------



## Maxvla

girls generation said:


> Just got the Hd800 today. S/N 208xx but I haven't put them on yet. Burn in time!



Why not listen to them???


----------



## myc

Welcome to the club! Nice that you got that new SN > 20000. Please share your FR graph (register in Sennheiser) and also share your impressions later against other headphones as well as previous HD 800 if you have any experience.


----------



## Girls Generation

I was just scared of what I'll find. And also getting used to some tracks with the LCD3. 
   
  So far, out of box 0 hours, pretty sibilant. S hurts.
  Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Why not listen to them???


----------



## Maxvla

The transition from no treble to treble will be difficult.


----------



## Girls Generation

Well... treble vs. SSSTTT is a whole different animal imo. LCD3 sounds so muffled in comparison, but bass quantity seems on par but LCD3 has a slower decay. HD800 wins in bass impact.
  Quote: 





maxvla said:


> The transition from no treble to treble will be difficult.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> The transition from no treble to treble will be difficult.---





>





> \


 
  but its so worth it. Like Solude says, HD 800 wipes the floor with LCD3. with the right front end and GSX, I bet the HD800 is the closest thing to SR009 rig. WIth lesser electrostatic amp (i,e NOT BHSE) I think it may beat out the Stax. This is from memory of meet experiences so I could be off but I dont think so,
   
  Anyway, CONGRATS!


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> So far, out of box 0 hours, pretty sibilant. S hurts.


 
   
  Welcome to Mjolnir land, enjoy the scream fest


----------



## olor1n

solude said:


> girls generation said:
> 
> 
> > So far, out of box 0 hours, pretty sibilant. S hurts.
> ...




The Gungnir is the culprit. The Mjolnir with a more capable DAC behind it isn't too shabby.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> Welcome to Mjolnir land, enjoy the scream fest


 
   
  +1  This amp with any DAC will still scream at you IMO..  The amp itself is just a hard core amp.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> The Gungnir is the culprit. The Mjolnir with a more capable DAC behind it isn't too shabby.


 
  I wouldn't exactly go that far. Even the PWD with current firmware is aggressive,
  superb detailing though and that upfront nature isn't for everyone.
   
  My experience is the same with NAD. Both are smoother than Gungnir though..
   
  But I'd still urge Solude to give Mojo a listen with PWD since you had it before with the W4S.


----------



## Solude

Bright with a dark dac and can isn't going to do well with a brighter dac and can   Basically if you don't feel the HD800 is a bass monster... something is thin or bright in the chain.  For my current and previous kicks at the can that would include the Stello DA220, AMB B22, Apex Peak and W4S DAC-2.  Burson Soloist, HeadAmp GS-X mk2 when on the PWD2 are fantastic though.


----------



## CDewey

girls generation said:


> Just got the Hd800 today. S/N 208xx but I haven't put them on yet. Burn in time!



Nice! I also have a similar s/n 208xx. Just got my FR graph. No spike at 6k! I've been so happy with my purchase. Enjoy!


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





cdewey said:


> Just got my FR graph. No spike at 6k!


 
  There's not a single FR graph that shows a spike at 6k.
  1) These graph show nothing
  2) This must be anyway what sennheiser think is "neutral" (the graph have diffuse field correction).
  Problem is that you don't have a "standard" head.
  3) still I'd think the "popular" would favor a mid bass emphasis , and a more recessed treble.
  I'm also thinking that the idea of neutral vary from one people to an other.


----------



## drez

^^Yes the graphs are rubbish, probably contrived to hide the treble peak.  I'm not sure if this is what Sennheiser consider neutral, it might be more of a deliberate attempt to make them sound "fast" or "articulate" and certainly the sound has much more bite and presence due to this peak.  Unfortunately I can't stand the effects on my ears which were literally sore before I modified my pair.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





drez said:


> it might be more of a deliberate attempt to make them sound "fast"


 
   
  Unfortunately it doesn't work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  Missing the feeling of speed of my srh940. Not that the hd800  is slow, but I was expecting something better on that particular point. In  a review from headfonia, they confirm somehow my feeling that the hd800 might not be the best for fast paced music .
   
   
  Edit: finally searched the review.  In the comparison to T1  review I  quote:
   
  Quote: 





> For faster music, the T1 tends to carry the pace better. The HD800 tends to work better for medium to laid back music. It does seem that the HD800 works for a wider range of music, but I really can’t generalize too much. For instance, just within Rock, you have Hard and Slow Rock.


 
  And then:
  Quote: 





> Anyway, I know people who listen to Hard Rock and Metal most of the time, and the HD800 just wouldn’t be able to keep up with the pace of their music. Some people listen mostly to Jazz, and I would recommend the HD800 for that individual.


 
  http://www.headfonia.com/hd800-t1/7/


----------



## Maxvla

HD800 is basically the fastest headphone short of some planar magnetics and stats.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> HD800 is basically the fastest headphone short of some planar magnetics and stats.


 

 Perhaps, but it's not how I hear it. And I'm not alone, thanks to the headfonia review.


----------



## BournePerfect

It IS probably the fastest dynamic. Imo people don't _perceive_ that because of it's distant soundstage...amps will also be a factor of course.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## paradoxper

HD800 blows the LCD-2 out of the water for metal and just edges out the LCD-3.
   
  Not fast enough. Pf, right...


----------



## preproman

The HE-6 is pretty fast as well. I do like the speed of the HD800. I see no issue with it's speed.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





solude said:


> For those without budget constraints...
> 
> I just finished my B22 v GS-X mk2 A/B and it was a landslide win for the GS-X mk2.  Keeping it short and sweet it brings the LCD-3 liquid presentation and weight without losing anything the HD800 also wipes the floor with against the LCD-3.  Pure win
> 
> Should add, that's single ended :O


 
  You should hear it fully balanced.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> You should hear it fully balanced.


 
  Si =o i guess solude will be selling all the other amps once again. Did he not just do those comparison once before?


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> It IS probably the fastest dynamic. Imo people don't _perceive_ that because of it's distant soundstage...amps will also be a factor of course.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  I think you nailed it! the soundstage is def more distant compared to HE6, but it is def a fast HP - no doubt about it!


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Si =o i guess solude will be selling all the other amps once again. Did he not just do those comparison once before?


 
   
  God I wish it was just once before   My third B22 and second Soloist /facepalm


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> You should hear it fully balanced.


 
   
  And I will when some copper lands on my doorstep   Kind of bummed only low is usable though


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





solude said:


> God I wish it was just once before   My third B22 and second Soloist /facepalm


 
  you should just keep all of them becaus eyou willonly buy them again in a month or so. Can get  very expensive doing that


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> I think you nailed it! the soundstage is def more distant compared to HE6, but it is def a fast HP - no doubt about it!


 
   
  You all need new amps.  HD800 is very forward on the Soloist and less so on the GS-X mk2 but no where near the distant my other amps have had.  I literally compared the soundstage on those amps and the HD800 to elevator music /facepalm
   
  As for the HD800 not fast enough... NOTHING is faster.  What you hear as speed on the Shure is ringing and overshoot.  The HD800 is the only can that shoots and stops on a dime, SR-009 included.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





solude said:


> God I wish it was just once before   My third B22 and second Soloist /facepalm


 
   
  You could always rent them out...


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





solude said:


> What you hear as speed on the Shure is ringing and overshoot.


 
  Well, I must like ringing and overshoot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  Anyways, I  found what I find the most bothering with the hd800:
  the wide stereo separation. From what I've understood, the bass is quite clean ,
  which explain why the stereo separation is more annoying than with other headphones.
  I played with crossfeed  without much success (I  think it makes sibilance worse).


----------



## brokenthumb

Quote: 





solude said:


> You all need new amps.  HD800 is very forward on the Soloist and less so on the GS-X mk2 but no where near the distant my other amps have had.  I literally compared the soundstage on those amps and the HD800 to elevator music /facepalm
> 
> *As for the HD800 not fast enough... NOTHING is faster*.  What you hear as speed on the Shure is ringing and overshoot.  The HD800 is the only can that shoots and stops on a dime, SR-009 included.


 
   
  I agree.  The HD800 smokes the LCD-2, HE-500, and HE-400 I had.  I always thought the HD800 would be fast with a nice soundstage but I never in a million years thought it would have the bass I'm hearing.  I thought LCD-2 was untouchable in bass department, boy was I wrong.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Anyways, I  found what I find the most bothering with the hd800:
> the wide stereo separation. From what I've understood, the bass is quite clean ,
> which explain why the stereo separation is more annoying than with other headphones.


 
   
  Buy an amp with BJT outputs, its the HD800 cure all


----------



## Nick Dangerous

I'm curious to hear this one.
   
  Dual 300b meshplates? Drool. Balanced, too.
   
  http://www.eddiecurrent.com/Balancing_Act.html


----------



## Maxvla

Careful there, Nick. I think that one goes against your 'too expensive' principles.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Oh it does... I just said I wanted to _hear_ it, that's all.
   
  Yeah, that's all I said.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> I'm curious to hear this one.
> 
> Dual 300b meshplates? Drool. Balanced, too.
> 
> http://www.eddiecurrent.com/Balancing_Act.html


 
  send them a check Nick and report back to us


----------



## Girls Generation

12 hours on HD800. Ss aren't EXTREMELY sibilant anymore. They were literally going SSSSSSSSTSTTTTS out of box 0 hours. Not even exaggerating. I wouldn't call the HD800 bright anymore... Especially since bass quantity equals LCD3 except the latter as a slower decay. I also now accept the fact that LCD2/3 are really shelved down in the treble, almost to the point where they sound muffled the moment I put them on after the HD800.
   
  My stomach is going to explode, too full. Eating more crow by the hour.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Thankfully I've had and enjoyed my HD800s for about 3 years now (maybe a bit more). That said, I still prefer my LCD-3s driven my GS-X. Not by a huge amount, but enough. IMO, both are fantastic and having both on hand really cover off all your musical bases to to speak.


----------



## Girls Generation

Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out if I'm going to keep one Audeze, meaning I need to decide which to let go, or sell both and be happy with HD800. Happy decisions (?)
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Thankfully I've had and enjoyed my HD800s for about 3 years now (maybe a bit more). That said, I still prefer my LCD-3s driven my GS-X. Not by a huge amount, but enough. IMO, both are fantastic and having both on hand really cover off all your musical bases to to speak.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out if I'm going to keep one Audeze, meaning I need to decide which to let go, or sell both and be happy with HD800. Happy decisions (?)


 
  First world problems for sure. It really also depends a lot on the music you listen to IMO. For jazz, rock, hard rock, I'd take the LCD-3s any day of the week. For classical, folk, prog rock or some metal, the HD800s. See, all your bases covered. Have I missed anything? 
   
  FWIW, I purposely left out 2 genres I really dislike: Country and Western.


----------



## Shahrose

The Dynahi was always my favourite amp with the HD800s. Basically what a GS-X mk2 sounds like.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





shahrose said:


> The Dynahi was always my favourite amp with the HD800s. Basically what a GS-X mk2 sounds like.


 
  Which is to say, it sounds like your source. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad you're keeping it!


----------



## Girls Generation

R&B and... [korean] pop and vocals! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hmm... Gotta give the Senns 100 more hours before I start a fair comparo.
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> First world problems for sure. It really also depends a lot on the music you listen to IMO. For jazz, rock, hard rock, I'd take the LCD-3s any day of the week. For classical, folk, prog rock or some metal, the HD800s. See, all your bases covered. Have I missed anything?
> 
> FWIW, I purposely left out 2 genres I really dislike: Country and Western.


----------



## BournePerfect

solude said:


> You all need new amps.  HD800 is very forward on the Soloist and less so on the GS-X mk2 but no where near the distant my other amps have had.  I literally compared the soundstage on those amps and the HD800 to elevator music /facepalm
> 
> As for the HD800 not fast enough... NOTHING is faster.  What you hear as speed on the Shure is ringing and overshoot.  The HD800 is the only can that shoots and stops on a dime, SR-009 included.




Not implying my ZDSE had a distant soundstage with the HD 800. But the Senn can definitely come across that way on the wrong amps, certainly.

-Daniel


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out if I'm going to keep one Audeze, meaning I need to decide which to let go, or sell both and be happy with HD800. Happy decisions (?)


 
   
   
  Had all three.  LCD-2.2 got sold as soon as the LCD-3 landed..  The other two are keepers..


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> 12 hours on HD800. Ss aren't EXTREMELY sibilant anymore. They were literally going SSSSSSSSTSTTTTS out of box 0 hours. Not even exaggerating. I wouldn't call the HD800 bright anymore... Especially since bass quantity equals LCD3 except the latter as a slower decay. I also now accept the fact that LCD2/3 are really shelved down in the treble, almost to the point where they sound muffled the moment I put them on after the HD800.
> 
> My stomach is going to explode, too full. Eating more crow by the hour.


 
  For me the cable smoothed the cans just a bit - enough to make them perfect.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out if I'm going to keep one Audeze, meaning I need to decide which to let go, or sell both and be happy with HD800. Happy decisions (?)


 
   
  Will be interesting to see what you keep. Some of us would prefer to live in a one headphone world, due to money concerns. Oh, to dream...


----------



## jazzerdave

Okay, so I had stated that I was going to sell my HE-6 and LCD-3 and then buy the HD800's.  Well, I kinda didn't do that.  HD800's are on their way.  At least I'll be able to compare all three before I inevitably sell something.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

I wonder how the asgard 2 fairs with the hd800s...


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> Okay, so I had stated that I was going to sell my HE-6 and LCD-3 and then buy the HD800's.  Well, I kinda didn't do that.  HD800's are on their way.  At least I'll be able to compare all three before I inevitably sell something.


 
   
   
  I don't know what I'd do if 1 of the 3 had to go


----------



## Solude

Take pictures, post, collect and ship


----------



## Solude

Take pictures, post, collect and ship


----------



## preproman

Yep - Easy as that..


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I don't know what I'd do if 1 of the 3 had to go


 
   
  There's a chance that I'll figure out a way to keep all of them, but then I'll have to find something else I can sell...
   
  Who needs a kidney?


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> I wonder how the asgard 2 fairs with the hd800s...


 
  So far I am enjoying the combo, but my experience with both so far is limited.  Need to get the HD800's on a few different amps right next to each other to compare.  Maybe some of the folks with more experience from our Winnipeg meet can chime in here.  We will also be doing another one on the 27th that I am sure we will have more data to share from.
   
  Wholy cow, I just noticed how bad my sentence structure is...I need a break.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Finally after some struggling, I  managed to reduce the fatigue I  experiment with the hd800, while preserving a decent clarity.
  I  tried all crossfeed I  could find , including the famous bs2b , but it does stuff wrong to transients, and the hd800 is enough resolving to show it.
  So I  tried first complex dsp chain, until I  realized that I  could reproduce myself a basic  crossfeed and still get a better result than the software solutions available . I'm guessing that the quality of the low pass filter makes a difference.  I  have a slight comb effect, but compensating the biggest hump is enough for me (I  used an analyser to locate and correct it).
  Here's roughly my crossfeed  (this doesn't explain everything, but to get an idea) :
   

   
  And to conclude, I  think that most of the fatigue I  experimented with the hd800 ,
  doesn't come from the supposed brightness , but*  *paradoxically with the bass.
  When you have a clean bass ,sometimes hitting hard and alternating between left and right,
  this can induce  fatigue.  The crossfeed help to "recenter" the bass, while trying to preserve as much as possible the mids/treble.
   
  Hopefully this would be the last time I   spend that much time with dsp, and I  can begin to listen more naturally to music now, with my hd800.


----------



## toschek

extrabigmehdi said:


> Finally after some struggling, I  managed to reduce the fatigue I  experiment with the hd800, while preserving a decent clarity.
> I  tried all crossfeed I  could find , including the famous bs2b , but it does stuff wrong to transients, and the hd800 is enough resolving to show it.
> So I  tried first complex dsp chain, until I  realized that I  could reproduce myself a basic  crossfeed and still get a better result than the software solutions available . I'm guessing that the quality of the low pass filter makes a difference.  I  have a slight comb effect, but compensating the biggest hump is enough for me (I  used an analyser to locate and correct it).
> Here's roughly my crossfeed  (this doesn't explain everything, but to get an idea) :
> ...




Is that MAX/MSP? Looks very cool and I'm wondering if you can share that somehow and let me know how you use this in your chain? Please send me a PM or something, that is legitimately interesting stuff man. Thanks!


----------



## Da5Id

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Is that MAX/MSP? Looks very cool and I'm wondering if you can share that somehow and let me know how you use this in your chain? Please send me a PM or something, that is legitimately interesting stuff man. Thanks!


 
  That's Reaktor not MAX/MSP.


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Finally after some struggling, I  managed to reduce the fatigue I  experiment with the hd800, while preserving a decent clarity.
> I  tried all crossfeed I  could find , including the famous bs2b , but it does stuff wrong to transients, and the hd800 is enough resolving to show it.
> So I  tried first complex dsp chain, until I  realized that I  could reproduce myself a basic  crossfeed and still get a better result than the software solutions available . I'm guessing that the quality of the low pass filter makes a difference.  I  have a slight comb effect, but compensating the biggest hump is enough for me (I  used an analyser to locate and correct it).
> Here's roughly my crossfeed  (this doesn't explain everything, but to get an idea) :
> ...


 
   
  I have to agree with a well implemented crossfeed helping reduce fatigue with the HD800.  I use the built in JRiver crossfeed on "subtle" and it seems to help close the center gap a bit and sound a bit more natural without noticeable degradation.  Imaging also sound more natural to my ears. I also have JRiver set to internally process DSP at 64 bit floating point if that makes a difference.  
   
  I find any higher levels of the built in crossfeed tends to smear things a bit which is why I keep it on subtle.


----------



## Chodi

I'm a big fan of adding crossfeed to get a natural sound. I tried many solutions and finally found one that works perfectly for me. You can try this for free and see if you like it. I suggest you can use minimal settings with Isone to just use the crossfeed or you can get fancy and use the many other functions in the program. I keep it simple and the results are fantastic. Here is a link to their site:  
   
http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isone/
   
  After setting it up and living with it for a while I couldn't live without it.


----------



## toschek

That is hella cool, thanks for the link.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Is that MAX/MSP? Looks very cool and I'm wondering if you can share that somehow and let me know how you use this in your chain?


 
  I use Art Teknika "Console Modular Studio", but I guess you could use something else. It has good compatibility, when I use it inside foobar , with a vst adapter. I may post details in a dedicated thread later. Just wanted to say : "I don't need to re-invent the crossfeed principle,
  if it's done properly, it works well".


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





chodi said:


> I'm a big fan of adding crossfeed to get a natural sound. I tried many solutions and finally found one that works perfectly for me. You can try this for free and see if you like it. I suggest you can use minimal settings with Isone to just use the crossfeed or you can get fancy and use the many other functions in the program. I keep it simple and the results are fantastic. Here is a link to their site:
> 
> http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isone/
> 
> After setting it up and living with it for a while I couldn't live without it.


 

 I  missed the fact that tb-isone could work only as a crossfeed. The room simulators completely change frequency response,
  and I  figured out you don't need to do something that radical to reduce fatigue.
  But  otherwise, here's how the frequency response of tb isone looks like with minimal crossfeed preset:
   

  The comb effect looks pronounced to me, but you might still enjoy it. The bs2b has no comb effect, but I  didn't like it.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

I posted here, the detail of how I created my custom crossfeed ( link below):
   
How to “create” a crossfeed (the steps).


----------



## bearFNF

So this is the graph that I just got from Sennheiser for my HD800's.
  Is this what other's received?


----------



## Maxvla

Yes.


----------



## pila405

How come it is a late manufactured pair (over 20K) and has this 6k bump?


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





pila405 said:


> How come it is a late manufactured pair (over 20K) and has this 6k bump?


 
   
  It's random, mine also looks very similar to this... And I've seen another 20k pair with the same curve.


----------



## Maxvla

Because all the HD800s are the same within manufacturing tolerances.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





pila405 said:


> How come it is a late manufactured pair (over 20K) and has this 6k bump?


 

 I  don't hear it, or it's not significant. I  tried to tame the treble with eq, only to revert it later : not much interesting.
   
  Perhaps sibilance is a bit emphasized with some recording, I'm not sure.
 I'm especially disappointed while listening to Mylene Farmer, lot of sibilant tracks.
  Not unbearable though.


----------



## Chodi

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I  missed the fact that tb-isone could work only as a crossfeed. The room simulators completely change frequency response,
> and I  figured out you don't need to do something that radical to reduce fatigue.
> But  otherwise, here's how the frequency response of tb isone looks like with minimal crossfeed preset:
> 
> ...


 
  The new version has a comb filter to deal with that effect.The filter can be turned on or off as you choose. I don't know how you took that graph but the HRTF setting and distance setting can really muck things up if not set to your ears. Any measurement you are taking would not account for the effects with your specific ears. The point is, we all hear differently.What your graph shows  would represent only one set of settings and without the effect of your specific ears. If you turn off the HRTF function and the room function and set this distance to 0 you would get a reasonable graph without ear interaction and only the crossfeed which is always present. Took me a while to understand how this works. I agree with the fact that you can really destroy the sound with the wrong settings. The head function alone is probably the most important setting.  It works for me and when I use the bypass to check the tonal characteristic when set to my ears is identical to no Isone at all.


----------



## silversurfer616

Was very apprehensive when I bought my HD800 with the serial number of 00854 because of early production model, sibilance and non existing bass etc.
  Luckily they came with a Cardas cable and lo and behold.....they sound terrific.
  Also,just received a Norse adapter so I can use my balanced LCD2 ALO chain mail and things improved even more.
  Needless to say that I have just sold the LCD2.
  So I think with the right components, there is no sibilance or lack of bass etc.,in fact I do consider the bass superior to the LCD2.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Because all the HD800s are the same within manufacturing tolerances.


 
  ^^^ BINGO!


----------



## Mambosenior

But if you wear them backwards, you will hear "Paul is dead" instead of that bump in the frequency graph. Really!


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Because all the HD800s are the same within manufacturing tolerances.


 
   
  It's been stated that the variances in the FR charts themselves are reproduced simply through minute positional adjustments when measuring the headphone. People are seeing these wildly differing plots and speculating on a re-voicing of the headphone. It's more likely that slight variations in certain frequencies (<1dB and within spec) and the right upstream components are coalescing to pass the Goldilocks test.


----------



## toschek

olor1n said:


> It's been stated that the variances in the FR charts themselves are reproduced simply through minute positional adjustments when measuring the headphone. People are seeing these wildly differing plots and speculating on a re-voicing of the headphone. It's more likely that slight variations in certain frequencies (<1dB and within spec) and the right upstream components are coalescing to pass the Goldilocks test.




Because the FR charts are all the same, within measurement tolerances.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Are you being deliberately obtuse? I was agreeing with him.


----------



## toschek

I was just trying to make a lame joke -- that wasn't directed at you at all man. Just a joke about what a joke the FR charts are in the first place. Sorry if I somehow offended you.


----------



## wink

You forgot to add the sarcasm meter........


----------



## TooPoor

Honest question: I KNOW my Bifrost is the bottleneck in my chain right now (Bifrost->V200->HD800), but how much of a bottleneck. Am I going to see a huge improvement all around if I move up into the $1k DAC range? I really like the Concero, but now I hear they're going to release a balanced version? I feel as though the V200 is really bringing out the Bifrost's true colors. Opinions welcome.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Honest question: I KNOW my Bifrost is the bottleneck in my chain right now (Bifrost->V200->HD800), but how much of a bottleneck. Am I going to see a huge improvement all around if I move up into the $1k DAC range? I really like the Concero, but now I hear they're going to release a balanced version? I feel as though the V200 is really bringing out the Bifrost's true colors. Opinions welcome.


 
   
  I thought the upgrade was easily justifiable. Concero is $200 more than a Bifrost w/USB & also comes with an Apple remote and USB power plug and lots of neat features.
   
  Bifrost is probably good enough for most rigs, but once you reach HD800-level resolution it is too limiting IMHO.


----------



## TooPoor

Ugh. Well I need to get rid of the Bifrost first and have had ZERO interest in it. It's pretty much brand new. Oh well. Maybe I'll sell some more gear and get a real decent $1k-1.5k DAC... Seems to be plenty in that range.


----------



## Girls Generation

Note, price doesn't justify performance sometimes. You'd have to choose carefully, and listen for yourself if possible.
  Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Ugh. Well I need to get rid of the Bifrost first and have had ZERO interest in it. It's pretty much brand new. Oh well. Maybe I'll sell some more gear and get a real decent $1k-1.5k DAC... Seems to be plenty in that range.


----------



## toschek

toopoor said:


> Ugh. Well I need to get rid of the Bifrost first and have had ZERO interest in it. It's pretty much brand new. Oh well. Maybe I'll sell some more gear and get a real decent $1k-1.5k DAC... Seems to be plenty in that range.




Wait until you can find something affordable with the Sabre 9018 and a good design. All respect due the Concero, but personally I need optical input so it's not for me. I'm thinking of selling my bifrost/lyr as a combo and picking up the Yulong Sabre 18, which seems like a marvelous VFM DAC.


----------



## Girls Generation

DAC chip doesn't mean anything if implementation is crap. Also, just because a DAC doesn't use ESS 9018 chips doesn't mean it's inferior.
  Quote: 





toschek said:


> Wait until you can find something affordable with the Sabre 9018 and a good design. All respect due the Concero, but personally I need optical input so it's not for me. I'm thinking of selling my bifrost/lyr as a combo and picking up the Yulong Sabre 18, which seems like a marvelous VFM DAC.


----------



## toschek

You're quite right about that, and I should not have put it that way. I should have said that all of the Sabre 9018 based DACs I have seen reviews for are great performers and some, like the Yulong are an excellent value for the price. If you don't think you'll need USB, you could do worse. 

@TooPoor - Are you using USB on the Bifrost you have or optical/coax? I've found that no matter if I'm on the Mac or PC I switch between throughout the day the s/pdif interface performs much, much better than USB. If you've been using it via USB you might want to give it a try to see if it helps. I have a similar predicament on the horizon with a Decware taboo iii on the way in a couple of months and so I'm interested in where your DAC hunt takes you. If I'm not mistaken you not too long ago had a Lyr too right?


----------



## YoengJyh

Hi,
   
  Does anyone try the HD800 with Yulong D18 DAC before?


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Concero is $200 more than a Bifrost w/USB & also comes with an Apple remote and USB power plug and lots of neat features.


 
   
  I just don't understand the Concero love.  Just looks like a lazy design that's banking on their previous hype.  Ie the circled area is the DAC and output.  Everything else is input.  That it's either powered by super noisy USB or equally noisy SMPS doesn't help.  Also if paying attention it's a Sabre, but it's the budget chip with onboard I/V and resulting poor spec.
   
   

   
  Lots of love though so something in the recipe must be working for it.  Just doesn't pass the sniff test for the asking price for me.


----------



## Maxvla

Try listening to it.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





solude said:


> I just don't understand the Concero love.  Just looks like a lazy design that's banking on their previous hype.  Ie the circled area is the DAC and output.  Everything else is input.  That it's either powered by super noisy USB or equally noisy SMPS doesn't help.  Also if paying attention it's a Sabre, but it's the budget chip with onboard I/V and resulting poor spec.
> 
> Lots of love though so something in the recipe must be working for it.  Just doesn't pass the sniff test for the asking price for me.


 
   
  It didn't pass the sniff test for me either, but after the family reunion picnic we all asked for seconds. 
   
  *shrug* perhaps mine shipped with a magic elf inside? No idea. But it's a strong competitor at this price tier regardless... just passing along what I've found.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Try listening to it.


 
   
  This is the Head-Fi mantra which not surprisingly relates to the other... sorry for your wallet.  In all seriousness though it's not my job to ignore what I see, drink the koolaid, spend my money and bank that my gut is wrong /shrug
   
  If you like it, have at it.  But something like this I would only pull the trigger on if I could audition it on my rig or used where I wouldn't lose anything if the hype is just that.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> This is the Head-Fi mantra which not surprisingly relates to the other... sorry for your wallet.  In all seriousness though it's not my job to ignore what I see, drink the koolaid, spend my money and bank that my gut is wrong /shrug
> 
> If you like it, have at it.  But something like this I would only pull the trigger on if I could audition it on my rig or used where I wouldn't lose anything if the hype is just that.


 
   
   
  Yup^^   Just may sound good.  However, going on design or as we like to say here on head fi "implementation".  I've found more times than not - you get what you pay for.  Not saying the DAC is not good.  However, I won't pay to play.  I need to have a pretty good feeling about the design / implementation before I jump.
   
  Just saying.  That's just me..


----------



## Girls Generation

Well, the guy was Director of Productions at ESS. Maybe that says something.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Well, the guy was Director of Productions at ESS. Maybe that says something.


 
  Yea. Invicta....


----------



## Maxvla

paradoxper said:


> Yea. Invicta....



Sounds fantastic.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Sounds fantastic.


 
  I just wonder if it's woth it over a Level 3 Lampi, PWD, Master 7, etc.
   
   
  A bud sold off his Invicta in favor of the Hilo..


----------



## Maxvla

Does he have an analog rig he wants to digitize? Perhaps he wanted both DAC and ADC and not have separates.


----------



## Solude

If the MSRP is the street price... no.  PWD2 with a street price nearer to $2500 to your door, lately with the bridge, is damn hard to beat for the money.  The PWD2 just walked all over the AP2 fed Octave which was already slightly better than the W4S DAC-2.
   
  HD800 related... PWD2 w/ GS-X mk2 is a beast of a rig.  I'd put money down there are LCD-3 fans that would call the combo too bassy :O


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Does he have an analog rig he wants to digitize? Perhaps he wanted both DAC and ADC and not have separates.


 
  He's a producer, however I didn't ask if he had a specific need Hilo met.
  All he mentioned was that he was glad he sold the Invicta off.
   
   
  He said he auditioned one for his studio and found it to have the cleanest, clearest sounding conversion he's heard. 
   
  He also let go of his Buffalo32, and now does all his mastering through the Hilo.
   
  I know it's just his personal experience, still surprised he seems to call it an easy victory for Hilo.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> If the MSRP is the street price... no.  PWD2 with a street price nearer to $2500 to your door, lately with the bridge, is damn hard to beat for the money.  The PWD2 just walked all over the AP2 fed Octave which was already slightly better than the W4S DAC-2.
> 
> HD800 related... PWD2 w/ GS-X mk2 is a beast of a rig.  I'd put money down there are LCD-3 fans that would call the combo too bassy :O


 
   
  PWD2 w/GS-X mk2 vs. Master 7 w/GS-X mk2  
   
  I'm just saying.  that's a on going war..


----------



## Happy Camper

preproman said:


> PWD2 w/GS-X mk2 vs. Master 7 w/GS-X mk2
> 
> I'm just saying.  that's a on going war..


I'd have to hear the PWD & Hilo again but that M7 combo is awfully good on the 800s.


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





solude said:


> I just don't understand the Concero love.  Just looks like a lazy design that's banking on their previous hype.  Ie the circled area is the DAC and output.  Everything else is input.  That it's either powered by super noisy USB or equally noisy SMPS doesn't help.  Also if paying attention it's a Sabre, but it's the budget chip with onboard I/V and resulting poor spec.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, I was completely skeptical looking at it, which is why I ended up buying it to see what all the fuss was about.  It's a pretty solid performer for the price despite it's meager parts.  Similar to how my old Wadia 121 had rather unimpressive parts for the money but sounded much better than it looked.  Common denominator between the two is they both use a custom FPGA chip to implement their own proprietary upsampling/filtering.  I suspect this has much more impact on the sound than people realize.
   
  The Concero is really just a high end USB/SPDIF converter/processor attached to a "DAC on chip", even the analog outputs are out of the DAC chip itself. So if you look at it as sort of like an Audiophilleo attached to an ODAC for $600, the price makes sense.  Not to mention the flawless case work which i'm sure adds to the build cost.
   
  That being said, I'm thinking of picking up a PS Audio Nuwave, or Schiit Gungnir to use with the Concero as a converter.  I was originally considering another amp like the Soloist but I think the delta of change might be greater adding a dedicated DAC to the Concero.  I'd love something like the PWD2 but even at $2500 (which I have yet to see new) it's still out of my price range for now.  Slightly starting to lean toward the Nuwave since I believe it's output is higher than 2V (need to confirm) to help counter the reduced gain from Concero.


----------



## Maxvla

I liked the Concero as a DAC better than both Nuwave and Gungnir.


----------



## Solude

Liked better is pretty vague.  How did they compare on tonal balance, staging, focus, resolution, fullness, layering, separation, emotional engagement, dynamics, oddities?


----------



## bearFNF

^^^ Heh, subjective opinions(on thier own)...don't help much unless you are borg.
   
  A combination of subjective and odjective data plus your own experience is always much better.
   
  You probably need to listen to it yourself..


----------



## Maxvla

solude said:


> Liked better is pretty vague.  How did they compare on tonal balance, staging, focus, resolution, fullness, layering, separation, emotional engagement, dynamics, oddities?



In all regards.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





solude said:


> Liked better is pretty vague.  How did they compare on tonal balance, staging, focus, resolution, fullness, layering, separation, emotional engagement, dynamics, oddities?


 
   
  I liked it better too. Can I just say that without writing a comprehensive review here?
   
  Maxvla, myself, and a couple others posted our findings in the NuWave thread (I preordered one from the initial batch). Didn't do a dedicated Gungnir a/b vs. Concero, but based upon my casual observations didn't really want to. I feel dirty now.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> In all regards.


 
  Nice..


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> I liked it better too. Can I just say that without writing a comprehensive review here?
> 
> Maxvla, myself, and a couple others posted our findings in the NuWave thread (I preordered one from the initial batch). Didn't do a dedicated Gungnir a/b vs. Concero, but based upon my casual observations didn't really want to. I feel dirty now.


 
  Well, I noticed you mentioned that you thought the Nuwave sounded better when fed by the CLAS so I'm hoping with the Concero feeding it would combine the benefits of both.  Of course, realizing that it may not be that cut and dry.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





jwahl said:


> Well, I noticed you mentioned that you thought the Nuwave sounded better when fed by the CLAS so I'm hoping with the Concero feeding it would combine the benefits of both.  Of course, realizing that it may not be that cut and dry.


 
   
  Yes, the CLAS + NuWave was an improvement over NuWave alone via USB. The combo edged out the Concero in many (but not all) ways*, but price-wise the two together might not remain competitive compared to DAC's at that price tier in total. 
   
  *the specifics of which have been lost to time and several Belgian white ales


----------



## Maxvla

jwahl said:


> Well, I noticed you mentioned that you thought the Nuwave sounded better when fed by the CLAS so I'm hoping with the Concero feeding it would combine the benefits of both.  Of course, realizing that it may not be that cut and dry.



Seems like you could spend $1500 better.


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Seems like you could spend $1500 better.


 
  Probably,  but I'm not spending $1500, I'm looking used maybe $650-$700.  I already own the Concero.  If I had a $1500 budget I'd probably just go for an Anedio D2.  Even if I sold the Concero for $500 (which i'd rather not) that puts me at about $1100 which is X-Sabre territory, but I really can't stretch budget any further than that for awhile.  I'm mostly hung up on keeping the Concero because I like the filter options and remote player control.  
   
  That's why I'm looking at a used Nuwave or Gungnir right now to pair with it.  Yulong D18 could be another option but I'm afraid it might be too warm considering I already have a warmish amp.  Better question I suppose (and to stay on topic) is which would better compliment the qualities of the HD800?  It seems the Nuwave might have the edge on detail but the Gungnir on naturalness.  
   
  Also I remember reading somewhere that the Nuwave XLR outputs 5.6v so I'm assuming SE is 2.8v which again would help balance out the lower Concero gain (which is still in effect as a converter). I still find some high dynamic range tracks to be slightly too low output with HD800 and my amps 10db gain.  I could mod the amp for higher gain but I'm hesitant to willingly increase noise level of amp.
   
  Thanks for the input, regardless.  Decisions, decisions...


----------



## palmfish

I just returned from a week-long business trip and got right back to my HD800's and D7000's. My receiver most definitely sounds muddy compared to the Objective2 I'm borrowing, but I have an observation I can't explain that I hope someone can provide insight about.
   
  On the O2, the Denons play louder than the Senns with the volume control fixed. On my receiver, its the other way around.
   
  The only thing I can think of is it's a "current vs. voltage" thing.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





jwahl said:


> That's why I'm looking at a used Nuwave or Gungnir right now to pair with it.  Yulong D18 could be another option but I'm afraid it might be too warm considering I already have a warmish amp.  Better question I suppose (and to stay on topic) is which would better compliment the qualities of the HD800?  It seems the Nuwave might have the edge on detail but the Gungnir on naturalness.


 
   
  Very cool... would love to hear your impressions of a Concero -> NuWave. Shame I didn't think to try that myself...


----------



## Solude

Welcome to the world of high output impedance.  You can think of it as a voltage divider.  And in the case of D7000 v HD800 that output impedance is going to eat a lot of the voltage intended for the D7000.


----------



## palmfish

Perfect, thank you! That explains a lot and seems like a good test that confirms my suspicions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I have no idea what the output impedance is and I've been wondering for a long while now. Schematic of the receiver doesn't indicate what resistors are used and two e-mails to Carver have gone unanswered.


----------



## Solude

Typically 120ohm+.  Seen some older amps with headphone jacks with 600ohm+ output impedance :O


----------



## palmfish

I remember reading somewhere that 120 Ohms was an industry "standard" at one time. I have a pair of 70's vintage Pioneer headphones that proudly proclaim on the earcups that they are 8 Ohm. The drivers in those headphones look just like a clock radio or cheap car stereo paper cone speaker.

Why would anyone design an 8 Ohm headphone intended for a 120 Ohm output?

Interesting that the D7000 is much lower impedance than the HD 800 yet it's sound is audibly much less affected by my receivers headphone output.


----------



## Solude

Headphones are an after thought today, nevermind then.  Many just ran speaker taps to the front, resistor in series, and go


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





solude said:


> If the MSRP is the street price... no.  PWD2 with a street price nearer to $2500 to your door, lately with the bridge, is damn hard to beat for the money.  The PWD2 just walked all over the AP2 fed Octave which was already slightly better than the W4S DAC-2.
> 
> HD800 related... PWD2 w/ GS-X mk2 is a beast of a rig.  I'd put money down there are LCD-3 fans that would call the combo too bassy :O


 
  And my A-B with the PWD2 and W4S DAC-2 was technically on par (really hard to tell this actually) with a preference for the cleaner sounding (less warmish) DAC-2. 
   
  If it was the other way around, I'd have gladly stepped up and bought the PS Audio DAC for $2500 and a re-enforced rack to hold the monster!


----------



## preproman

I didn't much like the W4S DAC-2 when I was out DAC hunting.  I found it to be little to much on the bright side for me.  None the less still a great DAC and gives up nothing to other DACs in it's price range.


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> I didn't much like the W4S DAC-2 when I was out DAC hunting.  I found it to be little to much on the bright side for me.  None the less still a great DAC and gives up nothing to other DACs in it's price range.




Too funny. I guess we each got the right DAC for what we were looking for.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Too funny. I guess we each got the right DAC for what we were looking for.


 
   
  Almost sound like Duck hunting


----------



## fishski13

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I remember reading somewhere that 120 Ohms was an industry "standard" at one time. I have a pair of 70's vintage Pioneer headphones that proudly proclaim on the earcups that they are 8 Ohm. The drivers in those headphones look just like a clock radio or cheap car stereo paper cone speaker.
> 
> Why would anyone design an 8 Ohm headphone intended for a 120 Ohm output?
> 
> Interesting that the D7000 is much lower impedance than the HD 800 yet it's sound is audibly much less affected by my receivers headphone output.


 

 if you want to learn more about how higher amplifier output impedances interact with headphones and why higher output impedance can be a good thing in certain situations, or if you just want to tailor your sound, this is an easy read: http://www.mediafire.com/view/?82kf0r5kdckdcer


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





fishski13 said:


> if you want to learn more about how higher amplifier output impedances interact with headphones and why higher output impedance can be a good thing in certain situations, or if you just want to tailor your sound, this is an easy read: http://www.mediafire.com/view/?82kf0r5kdckdcer


 

 Very good article. Thanks for the link!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I didn't much like the W4S DAC-2 when I was out DAC hunting.  I found it to be little to much on the bright side for me.  None the less still a great DAC and gives up nothing to other DACs in it's price range.


 
  I am always fascinated by everyones personal perspective. I do not find the W4S bright. I love it with the HD800's. Truly this hobby is always interesting.


----------



## MomijiTMO

It's really good to see the love for the HD800 from those who previously threw it aside for the LCD-Xs.  I have owned 2 LCD-2s and still want to give them a go but every single time I have them, I end up feeling unhappy with them for various reasons. I struggle to justify paying so much for the LCD-3. I have no real qualms with the HD800 and like so many of you, have hunted around for the perfect rig. 

Keep on listening fellas


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





momijitmo said:


> It's really good to see the love for the HD800 from those who previously threw it aside for the LCD-Xs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I feel that the HD800 and LCD2 are not in the same league. I heard headphones in the below $1000 mark that I would put against the ldc2 and I would judge the performance close. Just my 2 cents.
   
  Now, while the LCD3 is way overpriced in my opinion, i may get it at some point to supplement my HD800/, we will see


----------



## MomijiTMO

Too much money with too many issues for me.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

It looks like the LCD-2's time in the sun has come to an end. I remember around November of 2011, when the LCD-3 had just come out, the LCD-2 was better than the HD-800 for many many people here, thus influencing my decision to purchase one. Now, with all this praise for the 800s, and my own minor issues with the LCD-2 beginning to get noticed, I'm almost certain I'm gonna sell them and move on to an 800 early next year.
   
  I wish I could afford a Stax SR-009 'cause they're the greatest out. So I need to get the next best thing that is the least worst: Thus, either the HD-800 or LCD-3. From what I've read, compared to the SR-009, the HD-800 was generally not as good while the LCD-3 was awful in some opinions. So, with everything said above, the HD-800 I'd like to give a shot.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I am always fascinated by everyones personal perspective. I do not find the W4S bright. I love it with the HD800's. Truly this hobby is always interesting.


 
   
  Right there with you.  Prep and I tend to hear things 180 from each other.  I thought the DAC-2 quite dark sounding and besides a little extra punch pretty much a stand in for the Burson HA-160D DAC section.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> It looks like the LCD-2's time in the sun has come to an end. I remember around November of 2011, when the LCD-3 had just come out, the LCD-2 was better than the HD-800 for many many people here, thus influencing my decision to purchase one. Now, with all this praise for the 800s, and my own minor issues with the LCD-2 beginning to get noticed, I'm almost certain I'm gonna sell them and move on to an 800 early next year.
> 
> I wish I could afford a Stax SR-009 'cause they're the greatest out. So I need to get the next best thing that is the least worst: Thus, either the HD-800 or LCD-3. From what I've read, compared to the SR-009, the HD-800 was generally not as good while the LCD-3 was awful in some opinions. So, with everything said above, the HD-800 I'd like to give a shot.


 
  considering the 180 that people pulled on the LCD2 i am really trying to to buy  anything on the opinion of others. listen then buy. This about-face just showed me how we are susceptible we are to social forces and placebo effects. if you have not audition the HD800, do so and preferably side by side to the 009, so you really know the extent to which one compares to the other.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> Right there with you.  Prep and I tend to hear things 180 from each other.  I thought the DAC-2 quite dark sounding and besides a little extra punch pretty much a stand in for the Burson HA-160D DAC section.


 
   
   
  ha ha ha  my hearing is off - I know..


----------



## Solude

Updated your sig.  I see why you might find the PWD2 not as detailed as the M7... FW 2.02, ala musical firmware.  If you install 2.20 the focus, imaging and detail jump up as does dynamic range.  It's not for everyone though as it's pretty unforgiving.


----------



## preproman

Is that the firmware where the highs are harsh?  I have to read more about the changes.


----------



## olor1n

Why on earth do these companies change the component's signature with firmware updates? NAD are adding some handy features to the M51 but apparently at the expense of SQ. Daft.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Why on earth do these companies change the component's signature with firmware updates? NAD are adding some handy features to the M51 but apparently at the expense of SQ. Daft.


 
  What's weird to me is current PWD have 2.20 firmware shipped, AND you can't roll back. What no choice.
   
  Ohhhh and....PWD 1 upgrades boards are no longer available, so yea, no choice...


----------



## Solude

It's a matter of opinion.  The change reduced processing time and jitter which is turn cranks up focus and dynamics.  
   
  So if you like laid back sound then it's 'bad'.  If the idea of spending $2500 on a DAC that has the timing and detail of the $1000 ones isn't too smart... then it's 'good'.  
   
  All I know is every time someone tells me they can't tell the different between a Gungnir or W4S and the PWD2 I'm pretty sure it's rocking the 2.02 or 2.03 firmware.
   
  There is no change to output, no DSP, just streamlined code.  If the highs are harsh, the fault is downstream because on the Soloist and GS-X mk2 going to the HD800 it's butter.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





solude said:


> It's a matter of opinion.  The change reduced processing time and jitter which is turn cranks up focus and dynamics.
> 
> So if you like laid back sound then it's 'bad'.  If the idea of spending $2500 on a DAC that has the timing and detail of the $1000 ones isn't too smart... then it's 'good'.
> 
> ...


 
  From what I understand it's the analog boards that force you to use 2.20-current.
   
  Which makes it a curious decision to take away choice.
   
  And yea, if you like that precision, it's good, if not, well....guess you can fuse roll. Haha.


----------



## Solude

The new analog board supports this cool feature called mute /facepalm  Previous firmwares didn't implement it.  But the real 'reason' is the change in LCD provider that required a new LCD driver in the firmware.  Ie old firmwares can't turn on the LCD... minor thing


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





solude said:


> The new analog board supports this cool feature called mute /facepalm  Previous firmwares didn't implement it.  But the real 'reason' is the change in LCD provider that required a new LCD driver in the firmware.  Ie old firmwares can't turn on the LCD... minor thing


 
  Ah, so it forced their hand. Never knew that.


----------



## mink70

Quick question—need a new amp for the HD800. Which one has the absolute biggest soundstage and the most articulation and delicacy? Let's say under $2K, to keep this interesting.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

I haven't heard the Zana Deux yet, but it is well-regarded in that price range... http://www.eddiecurrent.com/Zanadeux.html


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mink70 said:


> Quick question—need a new amp for the HD800. Which one has the absolute biggest soundstage and the most articulation and delicacy? Let's say under $2K, to keep this interesting.


 
  The new Decware Taboo MK III has a huge soundstage with the HD800's. You can adjust it as well with the Lucid modes which have a crossfeed function .Depending on what song you are listening too, the Lucid's can add or take away. It is the biggest soundstage I have ever heard with HP's.
   
  http://www.decware.com/newsite/TABOO.htm
   
  Here are some pics of the amp...(and a few more...)
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/654644/a-visit-to-decware


----------



## ss8545




----------



## extrabigmehdi

@ss8545
  How it is different than using an eq ? So much distrust for dsp here.
   
  Anyways , I tried to reduce treble by 6db ---> lost some excitement/clarity
  then 3db, again loss of what partly makes the hd800 interesting
  then 1.5 db then finally less than 1db then it's not worth it to eq at all.
  The stereo separation is true source of fatigue with the hd800, much more than
  any supposed treble emphasis.


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> @ss8545
> How it is different than using an eq ? So much distrust for dsp here.
> 
> Anyways , I tried to reduce treble by 6db ---> lost some excitement/clarity
> ...


 
  I recently started using the TB Isone plugin on another member's recommendation with better results than the built in JRiver crossfeed I was using.  Completely non fatiguing and imaging cues seem to be more accurate on most recordings, as well as some recordings that sounded off or flat before actually sound correct.  
   
  I guess I didn't realize how hard panning some stereo effects can be with headphones, though I think the HD800 does better than most in that regard.  I think some "details" can seem a little more distant and less exaggerated with it enabled, but I feel it's actually more accurate to the original intent with most recordings.  Especially heavily produced and electronic music.  
   
  For instance, Skrillex without a well executed crossfeed is almost unlistenable with the aggressive panning effects, but sounds quite good with it enabled.  I also feel zero need to EQ with it enabled, and think it showcases just how truly neutral and accurate the HD800 is.


----------



## Mr Blonde

It's just pure advertisement...
  I liked my HD 800s straight out of the box until now.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





mr blonde said:


> It's just pure advertisement...
> I liked my HD 800s straight out of the box until now.


 

 Advertisement for ?
  My problem with the hd800, is when I listen to music, while doing something else at same time.
  There's is something on your hd800, that is gathering all your attention, I  figured out it was the stereo separation.
  I  didn't have that problem with my previous headphone, I  could put them, and "just forget the music" in background.
  With the hd800, it's almost impossible to listen music while doing something else.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> considering the 180 that people pulled on the LCD2 i am really trying to to buy  anything on the opinion of others. listen then buy. This about-face just showed me how we are susceptible we are to social forces and placebo effects. if you have not audition the HD800, do so and preferably side by side to the 009, so you really know the extent to which one compares to the other.


 
   
  Of course! I live in Rhode Island...I can't really try those other than buying and returning if I could. Unless I can find a Massachusetts or New York meet, I don't see it happening. I am having issues with the LCD-2 even though I love them. Doing lots of reading.


----------



## Mr Blonde

Advertisement for madisound, I guess. Or just for those special capacitators.


----------



## Girls Generation

I think this depends on the person and mood.
  Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Advertisement for ?
> My problem with the hd800, is when I listen to music, while doing something else at same time.
> There's is something on your hd800, that is gathering all your attention, I  figured out it was the stereo separation.
> I  didn't have that problem with my previous headphone, I  could put them, and "just forget the music" in background.
> With the hd800, it's almost impossible to listen music while doing something else.


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





mr blonde said:


> It's just pure advertisement...
> I liked my HD 800s straight out of the box until now.


 
  I did too and still do.  I was just pointing out a tool/tweak that some users can use if they so choose.  That's part of the fun of the hobby.   Not implying that it's somehow not good without it.


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





mr blonde said:


> Advertisement for madisound, I guess. Or just for those special capacitators.


 
  Ahh, my mistake. I didn't realize you were referring to that...Carry on


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> Of course! I live in Rhode Island...I can't really try those other than buying and returning if I could. Unless I can find a Massachusetts or New York meet, I don't see it happening. I am having issues with the LCD-2 even though I love them. Doing lots of reading.


 
  I hear ya. But I have noticed that there seems to be a renewed hype around the HD800. I agree with hype. I love these headphones and loved them from day one. Just saying that hte seame thing could be happening as happned to LCD


----------



## Currawong

That doesn't appear to be an ad. The guy posted the tweak months ago without mention of any site and he lives in a different country altogether.


----------



## preproman

The problem I have with my HD800s is they sound to damn good just how they are.  
   
  I wonder how can I fix that?


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> Of course! I live in Rhode Island...I can't really try those other than buying and returning if I could. Unless I can find a Massachusetts or New York meet, I don't see it happening. I am having issues with the LCD-2 even though I love them. Doing lots of reading.


 
   
  There's a meet in Long Island, NY in a few weeks that will have a bunch of headphones. The HD800 is bound to make an appearance but haven't checked what gear is coming.


----------



## kazsud

Has anyone heard the new oppo 105 as a source w/ the 800s?


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> There's a meet in Long Island, NY in a few weeks that will have a bunch of headphones. The HD800 is bound to make an appearance but haven't checked what gear is coming.


 
   
  Hopefully you get as much enjoyment out of it as I did at the Texas meet.  The HD800 seems to be a very big player in Texas, and there's another one on it's way to me now.  We had a pretty good variety at the meet: HD800, TH900, LCD2/3, HE-6, T1, T5P, SR007, SR009, and a Baby Orpheus (as well as gobs of lower priced cans).  Out of everything at the meet, the HD800 seemed to be the most prominent.  
   
  No matter what, I hope you enjoy the meet.  Of course take time to listen to the cans, but don't forget to have a good time chatting up your fellow head-fiers.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





mink70 said:


> Quick question—need a new amp for the HD800. Which one has the absolute biggest soundstage and the most articulation and delicacy? Let's say under $2K, to keep this interesting.


 
   
  ...also the newly-released Decware Taboo MKIII. Haven't heard it yet (didn't care for the HD800 + Taboo MKII combo), but early reports are very positive for this new revision.


----------



## Frank I

Mink if your going to be at the NY meet on 4/20  I am attending and will have the Taboo MK111 therewith me if you want to hear it with the hd80. I also have some nice tricked out tubes I will be using the Amperex EL84 and a Siemens ECC88 in the driver spot.


----------



## mink70

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Mink if your going to be at the NY meet on 4/20  I am attending and will have the Taboo MK111 therewith me if you want to hear it with the hd80. I also have some nice tricked out tubes I will be using the Amperex EL84 and a Siemens ECC88 in the driver spot.


 

 Thanks Frank, I'm going to try to make it. Would be great to hear them. Would you say a few words about the CSP2+ vs. the Taboo III? I'm leaning towards getting something from Decware, as the Eddie Current stuff appears out of my range, and there's no way I'm going to drop any serious coin on solid state.


----------



## Frank I

Mink it best for you to hear it standalone f your thinking of buying only the MK111 the CSP make it more dynamic and adds more gain but if you listen to it you will decide. I am still burning this in so I want to wait till it burned in and the review completed but I will have that all in the review.


----------



## paradoxper

Iv'e received my certificate from Sennheiser this morning:
   
   

   
   
  And then, Purrin was nice enough to agree to measure my HD800: So the real HD800 measurement.
   
   

   
  And lastly, you can check out Chang to see how the different S/N measure over the years.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





mambosenior said:


> But if you wear them backwards, you will hear "Paul is dead" instead of that bump in the frequency graph. Really!


 
  Ha! Love that joke. You must go back a long way like I do. I bet you listen to actual discs instead of files (like I do).


----------



## rgs9200m

I dunno, I still think the HD800s basically thrive with a warmish tube amp and a really good copper cable. And I think this recipe is all they need deal with the sterility factor.
  It's just like dealing with speakers that sound more analytical, more yin than yang (I think I got that right).
  I don't think you need mods or EQ or anything that extreme to calm them down or avoid fatigue.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> I dunno, I still think the HD800s basically thrive with a warmish tube amp and a really good copper cable. And I think this recipe is all they need deal with the sterility factor.
> It's just like dealing with speakers that sound more analytical, more yin than yang (I think I got that right).
> I don't think you need mods or EQ or anything that extreme to calm them down or avoid fatigue.


 
  Yep...The HD800's love Decware amps....


----------



## ss8545

all vst eq-s, like electri-q, psp neon and etc.
  make highs a little bit harsh,dry and lifeless
 only passive components ..
 but I'm glad if you like the hd800 in original
 God bless you)


----------



## rgs9200m

Yep, I think the HD800s are great in their "natural" state, and all you need to do is feed them a signal that isn't hyped up unnaturally,
  as they don't mask anything. I guess it's been said here before, but it's a classic garbage in garbage out situation, or maybe distortion distortion out,
  meaning quality in quality out. Now they sound organic and natural and unforced completely.
   
  They are just a crystal clear window (or maybe no window), and sound magnificent and non-treble-happy to this set of sensitive ears that has
  abandoned the likes of Denon D7000s, Beyer T1s, Sony bass-light R10s, Grado PS1000s, and others because they were too tipped up in the highs for me.


----------



## toschek

Is the aftermarket cable really all that?   Obviously I am using the stock cable so I don't know how much of a difference it makes, I just flinch at spending $300 - $400 on a piece of wire.


----------



## longbowbbs

^^^


----------



## Solude

10ft of 36awg silver plated ofc copper in a stiff sheath is shall we say less than ideal


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





solude said:


> 10ft of 36awg silver plated ofc copper in a stiff sheath is shall we say less than ideal


 
   
  Maybe the actual manufacturer with many years of experience knows a little more about audio engineering than an ordinary audiophile (like me or you or almost anyone here)? Why do you think anyone would ship 1500USD headphone with a crappy cable - especially Sennheiser?
   
  My opinion is - the stock cable is the only correct one because if there is any variation among cables, only this one will provide you with the sound Sennheiser originally intended.


----------



## verber

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Is the aftermarket cable really all that?   Obviously I am using the stock cable so I don't know how much of a difference it makes, I just flinch at spending $300 - $400 on a piece of wire.


 
   
  I picked up an aftermarket cable because I needed a balanced connector and didn't want to hack up the original cable.  I have not done careful, blind A/B testing to compare them... but I notice very little difference, and the differences I think I hear might be in my head.  I have to say that there are likely places that $300 will have a bigger influence on sound quality.
   
  --mark


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> ^^^


 
   
  YUM!


----------



## Girls Generation

Oh please. You contradict your own words by saying Senn knows more than you, and somehow you just 'know' Senn's intentions. Sennheiser is a corporation, there are more factors than mere ideality. 
   
  Maybe we should all trash our balanced amps because we can't use Sennheisers original cable or 1/4 plug. Maybe we should all get the exact same equipment that Sennheiser R&D has when they were developing the HD800. That is the only correct set up because if there is any variation among equipment, only the original Sennheiser one will provide you with the sound *Sennheiser originally intended. *
  Quote: 





rusta said:


> Maybe the actual manufacturer with many years of experience knows a little more about audio engineering than an ordinary audiophile (like me or you or almost anyone here)? Why do you think anyone would ship 1500USD headphone with a crappy cable - especially Sennheiser?
> 
> My opinion is - the stock cable is the only correct one because if there is any variation among cables, only this one will provide you with the sound Sennheiser originally intended.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Oh please. You contradict your own words by saying Senn knows more than you, and somehow you just 'know' Senn's intentions. Sennheiser is a corporation, there are more factors than mere ideality.
> 
> Maybe we should all trash our balanced amps because we can't use Sennheisers original cable or 1/4 plug. Maybe we should all get the exact same equipment that Sennheiser R&D has when they were developing the HD800. That is the only correct set up because if there is any variation among equipment, only the original Sennheiser one will provide you with the sound *Sennheiser originally intended. *


 
   
  Use whatever you want... I only stated my personal opinion.


----------



## preproman

Ever heard of cutting cost?  It happens you know..


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Ever heard of cutting cost?  It happens you know..


 
   
  Does not make sense to me with 1500USD headphones... With all the competition on the market.


----------



## NightFlight

So I think I made a mistake... I took the inner ear pads out of my HD800s and proceeded to listen.
   
  ... WOW.
   
  DONT do it. I can't put mine back in. I did that, and then pulled them out again.... It's like "lifting a veil"... because that's what the dang things are.  Has _anyone_ have any suggestions here? I'm already thinking mod, ie to find a lighter material to protect the diaphragm.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Does not make sense to me with 1500USD headphones... With all the competition on the market.


 
   
   
  Well they have to make a profit somewhere.  It's questionable they spent any kind of real money in cables.  Especially when they're detectable and most likely replaced by the customers.  
   
  Doesn't matter.  I changed mine out as soon as I got it.  No wait - I had my cable waiting on the headphones to get here.  Now trying to decide on Hard wiring or not.  Very venturous.


----------



## Girls Generation

You obviously haven't taken any kind of economics course have you? No matter what the listed MSRP is, no matter how large or small the company is, almost all companies will attempt to cut costs as much as possible weighing risk and compromise in order to net more returns. Why? Because profit is profit. 
  Quote: 





rusta said:


> Does not make sense to me with 1500USD headphones... With all the competition on the market.


----------



## Mr Blonde

3rd party cables are that expensive just because of those quite little numbers they sell of them. The material costs are nothing to talk about really, whether if it consists out of copper, silver or whatever. You can buy an exclusive Mercedes Benz AMG and change the stock alloy wheels by ones which are much more expensive than the stock ones. Those new wheels wouldn't change so much but are more fitting the likes of the owner.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Cables can cost upwards of $300 for a good one


 
  Oh great, the stock cable of hd800 actually costs 300$ if you want to replace it.
  Must be good then. Off course the more you spend , the better it sounds.
  For best sound quality, I  actually burn money to generate electricity, in order to run my headphone.
  Much better than stock electricity ! You must look for audiophile-grade electricity !


----------



## Girls Generation

Cost of materials for cables isn't much, but it adds up when you're mass producing them, especially if you need to source wires separately from whoever produces the cables for Sennheisers if they don't use materials that Sennheiser wants, or find another who does, but have to pay more than current most likely.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> You obviously haven't taken any kind of economics course have you? No matter what the listed MSRP is, no matter how large or small the company is, almost all companies will attempt to cut costs as much as possible weighing risk and compromise in order to net more returns. Why? Because profit is profit.


 
   
  I understand that business is business... But why should any manufacturer offer crappy cable with their extremely expensive headphones if it is so easy and cheap to make and sell a correct one? HD800 is sold in huge numbers, no problem to manufacture a quality cable for cheap IMHO.
   
  You are talking like making an audio cable is quantum physics... No, making a proper cable is actually very cheap in comparison to engineering the drivers, ergonomics etc.
   
  As for the materials, once again, making a cable is not quantum physics... There is zero probability Sennheiser could run into problems with suppliers in this regard.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Well they have to make a profit somewhere.  It's questionable they spent any kind of real money in cables.  Especially when they're detectable and most likely replaced by the customers.
> 
> Doesn't matter.  I changed mine out as soon as I got it.  No wait - I had my cable waiting on the headphones to get here.  Now trying to decide on Hard wiring or not.  Very venturous.


 
   
  If you buy a high in bicycle... you'll find it usually doesn't have pedals on it. No point in putting whatever on there says the manufacturer. Serious cyclists are just going to replace them with their favored type anyhow. Many high end products omit quality components, because enthusiasts replace what's replaceable almost immediately.


----------



## palmfish

Oh good, another cable debate!


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Oh great, the stock cable of hd800 actually costs 300$ if you want to replace it.
> Must be good then. Off course the more you spend , the better it sounds.
> For best sound quality, I  actually burn money to generate electricity, in order to run my headphone.
> Much better than stock electricity ! You must look for audiophile-grade electricity !


 
   
   
  Some people are straight *&%  *&%^$


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> So I think I made a mistake... I took the inner ear pads out of my HD800s and proceeded to listen.
> 
> ... WOW.
> 
> DONT do it. I can't put mine back in. I did that, and then pulled them out again.... It's like "lifting a veil"... because that's what the dang things are.  Has _anyone_ have any suggestions here? I'm already thinking mod, ie to find a lighter material to protect the diaphragm.


 

 Okay... more comparisons. Got of that little high there. Phew.
  The difference wasn't all that big... but maybe... I don't know. I'd have to remove them again. Dang.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Some people are straight A _ _  _ _ _ _ _.


 
   
  He is actually pretty much spot-on. I would actually rather generate audiophile electricity that way than spend thousands of dollars on cables - much more fun, the same effect!


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Okay... more comparisons. Got of that little high there. Phew.
> The difference wasn't all that big... but maybe... I don't know. I'd have to remove them again. Dang.


 
   
  I've tried several different audiophile cables... No difference, maybe slightly changed frequency response but that's all.
   
  (Changed FR =/= better quality, IMHO)


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





rusta said:


> He is actually pretty much spot-on. I would actually rather generate audiophile electricity that way than spend thousands of dollars on cables - much more fun, the same effect!


 
  Well you can join him for all I care with your audiophile electricity.  People are allowed to spend what ever they want.  It's their money.  Why should you or any one else question them.  Just because you don't have the money to spend - to bad.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rusta said:


> I understand that business is business... But why should any manufacturer offer crappy cable with their extremely expensive headphones if it is so easy and cheap to make and sell a correct one? HD800 is sold in huge numbers, no problem to manufacture a quality cable for cheap IMHO.
> 
> You are talking like making an audio cable is quantum physics... No, making a proper cable is actually very cheap in comparison to engineering the drivers, ergonomics etc.
> 
> As for the materials, once again, making a cable is not quantum physics... There is zero probability Sennheiser could run into problems with suppliers in this regard.


 
  I don't think anyone is saying the cable's are crappy, and keep in mind GG and Prep believe cables make a difference.
   
  Their point is Sennheiser doesn't offer the best cable, does Sennheiser cut costs and use a "inferior wire?", or does Sennheiser use the best cable (in their minds),
  and for their specific design goals? No one knows.
   
  This topic is pretty endless.
   
  I for one believe Sennheiser uses the cable they use because they believe it's the best. Meaning, all the other types out there don't make an audible difference.
   
   
  This leads me to go back to Stax and why they don't use exotic wire.


----------



## rawrster

Not everyone buys cables for sonic improvement. I don't believe in cables making a difference in sound and have a cable that costs around $300. In any case it's best to leave this to the cable subforum. I'd rather not see this thread get locked too.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I don't think anyone is saying the cable's are crappy, and keep in mind GG and Prep believe cables make a difference.
> 
> Their point is Sennheiser doesn't offer the best cable, does Sennheiser cut costs and use a "inferior wire?", or does Sennheiser use the best cable (in their minds),
> and for their specific design goals? No one knows.
> ...


 
   
   
  Well, I only buy cable for three reasons.  Functionality, Flexibility and Aesthetics - with the hope when they are hardwired there are SQ improvements.


----------



## JWahl

Well I don't think the stock cable is "crappy" per se but I'm sure Sennheiser thought that would be the optimal area to compromise in to increase their profit margins.  If they for instance, built a better quality stock cable, then charged $1800 for the headphone their overall profits would likely decrease due to fewer sales, even if the sound quality was slightly better.
   
  A good example would be if manufacturer A produced a headphone that after R&D, parts, labor, and scale cost them $400 to make and is sold at $800.  Manufacturer B also costs $400 to make but is sold for $1200.  Both headphones have sound quality that is comparable to their respective price points.  Do you think that manufacturer B would lower their sale price to be proportional with Manufacturer A?  Of course not.  Manufacturers will charge as high as they can to what level of price/sell quantity ratio they think the market will tolerate given their sound quality level (or just demand, a la Beats).
   
  If Sennheiser thought that an HD800 priced at $2500 would sell in the same quantity as one priced at $1500, they would certainly raise the price without adding anything to the headphones themselves.  Likewise, If they would sell in large enough quantities at $1000, they would drop the price.  I'm sure Sennheiser pays their bean counters good money to figure out those optimal ratios for maximum profits, just like any large business.
   
  Now I'm not knocking the HD800 at all, I love them.  It's still my favorite headphone I've owned so far.  And it seems that Sennheiser at least puts some of their profits into R&D, at least more than some others.  But don't think for a moment that they will put the absolutely highest quality material in what they build, just because it costs $1500; they will only put in the minimum cost to produce what they feel they have to for the maximum profit, it's simple business.  I think one of the few manufacturers that actually prices their products strictly on their production costs is Audio-GD.  But they're not really a "Big business"
   
  Just my $0.02  *steps down from soapbox*


----------



## Girls Generation

I believe cables make a difference, but it's not my priority. Quality, aesthetics, ergonomics, SOMETHING THAT'S NOT 10FT, and the fact that I need to buy cables to go balanced, makes me buy appropriate cables. In this case, Senn's and Audeze's stock cables tick only 1 out of 5 of listed qualities.
   
  The very fact that Sennheiser doesn't offer balanced cables may indicate that, as prep has noted, they may be expecting enthusiasts who spend $1500 on headphones, and more so on equipment, may most likely replace the cables anyways. They aren't ignorant, nor are they hermits either. I can't say the same for Audeze...


----------



## rgs9200m

Drew's Moon Audio Black Dragon is nice on the HD800.


----------



## Solude

The problem isn't the cable, it's what takes up all that space and weight that isn't cable...
   

   
  I'll take my cut to length, loop on my pinky cable, that's full of actual cable over the plastic sheath with a little cable Senn gave me that I need to loop and tie wrap to keep tidy.  And it's really hard to insert a 1/4" TRS inti a 4pin XLR.   Just saying


----------



## toschek

This leads me to another question, can you use a 1/4" TRS Female to 4 Pin XLR male adapter with balanced headphone jacks?   I am a cheap bast**d and those cost like $20.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





solude said:


> The problem isn't the cable, it's what takes up all that space and weight that isn't cable...


 
  The cable is solid, flexible, shield protected.
  I  would have preferred though a shorter cable, and something that resist better to tangling.
  I  skip he " perceptible  difference" point, it's just mind numbing.


----------



## Cante Ista

rusta said:


> Does not make sense to me with 1500USD headphones... With all the competition on the market.



Seems like he has his opinion. Lets not confuse him with facts.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> The cable is solid, flexible, shield protected.


 
   
  HD600/650 cable is flexible, HD800 not so much.  Also Cardas is shielded too.


----------



## bearFNF

I dont know about you guys but I do use "audiophile electricity".  Living in the sticks like I do a UPS with line conditioning and AVR is a _*MUST*_.   I would not trust pluggin my equipment into the wall without "purifying" it first. I also found an issue with the charger on my laptop that causes noise in one of my amps.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> I dont know about you guys but I do use "audiophile electricity".  Living in the sticks like I do a UPS with line conditioning and AVR is a _*MUST*_.   I would not trust pluggin my equipment into the wall without "purifying" it first. I also found an issue with the charger on my laptop that causes noise in one of my amps.


 
  +1 from the same great white north woods....UPS' and voltage regulators on everything.


----------



## Shahrose

Anyone with a decent system and a decent set of trained ears should be able to hear cable differences with time.
   
  The HD800 stock cable isn't bad. There are just better ones out there.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





toschek said:


> This leads me to another question, can you use a 1/4" TRS Female to 4 Pin XLR male adapter with balanced headphone jacks?   I am a cheap bast**d and those cost like $20.


 
   
  If it's just a 4-pin XLR jack on an amp that's not truly balanced, then no, that won't cause any problems.  If you use an adapter like that on a true differential (balanced) amp, then you'll blow your amp.  
   
  Also, could we just cut any discussion about whether or not cables make any difference in sound quality?  I think we should have the sense not to get into the same discussion that got the last thread locked.  That being said, I don't have much respect for the quality of the HD800 cable.  36AWG cable is just barely suitable for tonearm wire that carries voltages up to 5mV.  When HD800's will be plugged into amps that can put out 17V RMS (not even peak-to-peak swings), it's a little inadequate.


----------



## toschek

Yeah, I really didn't mean to start a fight with that, I am really quite sure a cable swap can make a difference, it just irritates me to no end that Sennheiser couldn't see fit to including a nicer cable or no cable. For the hefty price tag it just burns my gut to have to go spend another $300 - $500 to get the most out of them. I find the whole argument that high end customers are going to source their own cable a bit illogical too, and if that's what Sennheiser intended, why not sell with no cable at all and charge $1200?


----------



## Girls Generation

I don't think anyone has mentioned anything about the sonic qualities that cables impart or not -- just whether Sennheiser cut costs or designed it around their cable, and whether it suits our needs.
  Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> If it's just a 4-pin XLR jack on an amp that's not truly balanced, then no, that won't cause any problems.  If you use an adapter like that on a true differential (balanced) amp, then you'll blow your amp.
> 
> Also, could we just cut any discussion about whether or not cables make any difference in sound quality?  I think we should have the sense not to get into the same discussion that got the last thread locked.  That being said, I don't have much respect for the quality of the HD800 cable.  36AWG cable is just barely suitable for tonearm wire that carries voltages up to 5mV.  When HD800's will be plugged into amps that can put out 17V RMS (not even peak-to-peak swings), it's a little inadequate.


----------



## palmfish

When you buy a BMW, it comes with high performance all-season tires. For 99% of buyers, all-season tires are the best choice.
   
  I bought the HD800 for the way it sounds first and foremost. I also like the comfort and build quality. The stock cable seems to be durable and of good quality - it suits me just fine.


----------



## preproman

To each is own.  I replaced it as soon as I got it.  Glad I did.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> When you buy a BMW, it comes with high performance all-season tires. For 99% of buyers, all-season tires are the best choice.
> 
> I bought the HD800 for the way it sounds first and foremost. I also like the comfort and build quality. The stock cable seems to be durable and of good quality - it suits me just fine.


 
  True, but there still are better tires out there than stock all-seasons. The HD800 is good, but there are better. And as mentioned, some of us don't need a 10 footer and a balanced option would ne nice too. The differences I hear with cables are certainly subtle, but still audible. I don't want to make this into a cable thread, but should someone find a better solution for them in their setup, then good for them. 
   
  That said, I would only recommend upgrading cables once the amp/dac/source (or tubes if its a tube-amp) have all been looked at and "finalized". It's usually the last thing I'd recommend to tweak.


----------



## Maxvla

I personally can't stand dealing with a 10 foot cable since I sit right next to my amp. That and I needed balanced was why I got an aftermarket cable.


----------



## jronan2

Which one did you go with Maxvla?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> True, but there still are better tires out there than stock all-seasons. The HD800 is good, but there are better. And as mentioned, some of us don't need a 10 footer and a balanced option would ne nice too. The differences I hear with cables are certainly subtle, but still audible. I don't want to make this into a cable thread, but should someone find a better solution for them in their setup, then good for them.
> 
> That said, I would only recommend upgrading cables once the amp/dac/source (or tubes if its a tube-amp) have all been looked at and "finalized". It's usually the last thing I'd recommend to tweak.


 
  I like the balance cable with the hd800 and prefer the all copper cable for their non bright presentation. That being said the hD800 stock cable is not a bad cable but the aftermarket takes the edge that I hear in silver and  silver plated cables off. Everyone is different an has different preferences but the HD800 on balanced amps need an aftermarket cable to sound best.


----------



## rawrster

I absolutely agree. The cable was way too long that I had it shortened and terminated to XLR and then used some length to make an adapter to SE as well as XLR to bananas.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I like the balance cable with the hd800 and prefer the all copper cable for their non bright presentation. That being said the hD800 stock cable is not a bad cable but the aftermarket takes the edge that I hear in silver and  silver plated cables off. Everyone is different an has different preferences but the HD800 on balanced amps need an aftermarket cable to sound best.


 
  Agreed!


----------



## Maxvla

jronan2 said:


> Which one did you go with Maxvla?



Cheapest thing I could find. A cable from Headphone Lounge which is no longer available, solid core silver, 6 foot with custom ordered switchcraft XLR. Ran me about $100.


----------



## Girls Generation

That's a bad assumption. I for one own a BMW and I find your statement wildly inaccurate for me and many other of my BMW driving friends. Because of its torque to its rear wheels, I find myself oversteering a lot even on dry pavement and new tires, exacerbated by the ever-continuing rain. All seasons don't cut it for me, and although I wouldn't be able to put down a number, I'd be more than willing to assume more than 1% would agree with me. Maybe they're an acceptable choice because of the lump sum money it saves.
   
  To each his own is really a good statement.
   
  I think you're assuming cables vastly changes the sound, but that's vastly incorrect. I'm sure many cable owners like Macedonian, Prep, and myself will agree that cables impart very minute differences which may or may not provide us with a better experience. If it suits your needs, I really envy you. I had to spend more of my hard earned money to purchase a custom tailored cable that suits MY needs... (which happen to not be sonic improvement)
  Quote: 





palmfish said:


> When you buy a BMW, it comes with high performance all-season tires. For 99% of buyers, all-season tires are the best choice.
> 
> I bought the HD800 for the way it sounds first and foremost. I also like the comfort and build quality. The stock cable seems to be durable and of good quality - it suits me just fine.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> That's a bad assumption. I for one own a BMW and I find your statement wildly inaccurate for me and many other of my BMW driving friends. Because of its torque to its rear wheels, I find myself oversteering a lot even on dry pavement and new tires, exacerbated by the ever-continuing rain. All seasons don't cut it for me, and although I wouldn't be able to put down a number, I'd be more than willing to assume more than 1% think otherwise. Maybe they're an acceptable choice because of the lump sum money it saves.
> 
> To each his own is really a good statement.
> 
> I think you're assuming cables vastly changes the sound, but that's vastly incorrect. I'm sure many cable owners like Macedonian, Prep, and myself will agree that cables impart very minute differences which may or may not provide us with a better experience. If it suits your needs, I really envy you. *I had to spend more of my hard earned money to purchase a custom tailored cable that suits MY needs... (which happen to not be sonic improvement)*


 
   
   
  Well said..


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> I don't think anyone has mentioned anything about the sonic qualities that cables impart or not -- just whether Sennheiser cut costs or designed it around their cable, and whether it suits our needs.


 
   
  You're right, most of the cable talk has completely free of claims as to whether or not they make an audible difference (much less impressions on those differences).  And you specifically never mentioned anything of the sort.  That being said there was a little bit of baiting from the anti-cable side.  I just didn't want to see anything degenerate.  Again.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Only when it goes down to 7C will summers grip worse than A/S, but when Canada weather gets around there, usually we already have winters on. Wildly off topic, sorry guys.


 
   
  Remember I live a bit south of you... I don't use winters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Back on topic - I ordered a Benchmark DAC1 to pair with my HD800's. It should arrive friday...


----------



## Girls Generation

Our weathers are probably more similar than not though. Anyhow, I'll see you at the Seattle meet this May 4th?
   
  And I applied the Anax mod 2.0 on my HD800s. It didn't do a lot but it did fix some nuances that I found were cons of the HD800. Cheers!
  Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Remember I live a bit south of you... I don't use winters
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## palmfish

I'll be there - see you then. It'll be good to compare our HD800's. I'll be sampling mine with a friend's WA3+ with NOS Chatham 2399 power tube this weekend. He says its so lifelike he feels like he can reach out and touch the musicians. We shall see...
   
  Prosit!


----------



## drez

girls generation said:


> Our weathers are probably more similar than not though. Anyhow, I'll see you at the Seattle meet this May 4th?
> 
> And I applied the Anax mod 2.0 on my HD800s. It didn't do a lot but it did fix some nuances that I found were cons of the HD800. Cheers!




I couldn't live with the HD800 without the Anax mod, then again there were many other problems in my system that the HD800 laid bare and which I have subsequently addressed.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I'll be there - see you then. It'll be good to compare our HD800's. I'll be sampling mine with a friend's WA3+ with NOS Chatham 2399 power tube this weekend. He says its so lifelike he feels like he can reach out and touch the musicians. We shall see...
> 
> Prosit!


 
   
  2399's sound really good with HD 800, very transparent sound


----------



## zigy626

Just bought the Sennheiser HD 800 and its the best decision I have made when it comes to headphones. My journey into headphones began with Koss Porta Pro, then came the B&W P5, Sennheiser Amperior, AKG K702,  Sennheiser HD 650, Hifiman HE-500, Denon AH-D7100. All of them either got returned or sold on ebay. I just could not find the sound I wanted. The most exciting of them all was the Sennheiser Amperior it was pure fun. When it comes to audiophile quality I would say the Sennhesiser HD 650 would be at the top of the list. Hifiman HE-500 suffered from channel imbalance and had a small soundstage, Denon was too much bass leaking into the mid's, B&W P5 was just like the Koss porta pro with a slightly more detail in the upper frequency, AKG K702 was all soundstage and treble with the lower end missing.
   
  The more I listen to the HD 800 the more I realise how things should have sounded. The soundstage is large but detailed in that instrument placement is precise. I am not finding the treble to be harsh and neither is the lower end missing. I am getting good bass where the track requires it. Nothing on this headphone is exaggerated. But of course all this comes at a price. I was lucky enough not to make too much of a loss on the gear I had to sell in order to afford the HD800. 
   
  I am now wondering how much I would have to spend to get the same audio quality in a speaker setup. Currently I have the Audiolab M-Dac and using its headphone out to power the HD 800.


----------



## Operakid

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Just bought the Sennheiser HD 800 and its the best decision I have made when it comes to headphones. My journey into headphones began with Koss Porta Pro, then came the B&W P5, Sennheiser Amperior, AKG K702,  Sennheiser HD 650, Hifiman HE-500, Denon AH-D7100. All of them either got returned or sold on ebay. I just could not find the sound I wanted. The most exciting of them all was the Sennheiser Amperior it was pure fun. When it comes to audiophile quality I would say the Sennhesiser HD 650 would be at the top of the list. Hifiman HE-500 suffered from channel imbalance and had a small soundstage, Denon was too much bass leaking into the mid's, B&W P5 was just like the Koss porta pro with a slightly more detail in the upper frequency, AKG K702 was all soundstage and treble with the lower end missing.
> 
> The more I listen to the HD 800 the more I realise how things should have sounded. The soundstage is large but detailed in that instrument placement is precise. I am not finding the treble to be harsh and neither is the lower end missing. I am getting good bass where the track requires it. Nothing on this headphone is exaggerated. But of course all this comes at a price. I was lucky enough not to make too much of a loss on the gear I had to sell in order to afford the HD800.
> 
> *I am now wondering how much I would have to spend to get the same audio quality in a speaker setup.* Currently I have the Audiolab M-Dac and using its headphone out to power the HD 800.


 
   
   
  The answer to that question would be a TON of moneuy.  Hey, for $1,000 you can get speakers that image like no headphone can, put the soundstage out in front of you like no headphone can.
   
  But, to get the seamlessness, extension on both ends, low distortion, detail, the pure sonic qualities you just won't find it.  In this regard headphones are a fantastic deal!


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





rusta said:


> I've tried several different audiophile cables... No difference, maybe slightly changed frequency response but that's all.
> 
> (Changed FR =/= better quality, IMHO)


 
   
  Sorry, I was talking about pulling out the inner diaphragm covers and having a listen without them. I think some detail jumps out as a result.
  I'm having a hard time making up my mind about it.
   
  I pull them out and I get the impression that the difference is huge. Then I put them back in and I have the impression that its not... until I pull them out again.


----------



## kazsud

I just bought a used moon audio dragon v3 from a fellow head-fier for ****s and giggles. 
  Although the brightness that was too much to bear has worn off since I bought them in november.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> I just bought a used moon audio dragon v3 from a fellow head-fier for ****s and giggles.
> Although the brightness that was too much to bear has worn off since I bought them in november.


 
   
  It's called break-in. Mine played around the clock for week in the shipping box. The whole chain broke in. Checked in a couple times a day for brief listens and the gains were evident each time.


----------



## NightFlight

OK. I've put the diaphragm covers in and out several times now.
   
  My impression is that the nuance, detail, imaging, speed, immediacy... everything goes up a notch without them.  For instance there is a voice loop in the background faintly calling on the current track that I'm listening to. I take the covers off and it becomes much better defined. I'm certain I could do the same by bringing up the volume and making the amplifier work more. But here's the thing. The volume levels are the same, just the fine detail came up. Bringing up the volume would bring the amplitude peaks above the comfort zone to achieve the same balance.
   
  But some of you might say they are needed for damping, and others will say removing them doesn't do anything. Well it can't be both. Well, perhaps in a subjective world it can...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  So I'd like some comparative input from you folks please. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Anyone have two pairs handy that they can A/B or run at the same time?


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Not true at all. My wife can't hear how poor Sirius radio quality is in her car. I point out the digital artifacts which to me are in your face and unbearable.


 
   
  I  find that the car is actually the best place to enjoy the radio. All the songs , are actually  "processed" , so that it would  sound optimal on car (adding some loudness compression, to track that are already loudness compressed).
  I'm not sure of what "digital artifacts" you are speaking of, it's not stuff anyway that you pay attention, when you are on the road.
  I  wish I  could post some link to some dj mix distributed for free (copyright problems, I  guess) , the "artifacts" are just unbearable with the hd800,
  while it could be ok with the hd25 II  1.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I  find that the car is actually the best place to enjoy the radio. All the songs , are actually  "processed" , so that it would  sound optimal on *car (adding some loudness compression, to track that are already loudness compressed).*
> I'm not sure of what "digital artifacts" you are speaking of, it's not stuff anyway that you pay attention, when you are on the road.
> I  wish I  could post some link to some dj mix distributed for free (copyright problems, I  guess) , the "artifacts" are just unbearable with the hd800,
> while it could be ok with the hd25 II  1.


 
   
  Please don't mention compression in a favoured light. I mean really. It deliberately cuts transients as though they are a bad thing.  I have a crappy stock radio in my car. You know. Every now and then, I turn on. Then I turn it down. Then I turn it off again. When I can stop shivering I try and forget about the experience.  I like the local classic rock station, but the medium murders it. Just when you thought that a medium couldn't more narrow... welcome to the digital age! Bring out a 100 channels of even bigger turds. Turds are turds.  It doesn't matter if they are digital turds or not.
   
  IMHO, a car is no place for a good stereo. It doesn't work. Easier to design and orchestrate a mars mission than fix all the issues that stem from the acoustic issues in a car.
   
  The digital artifacts are present due to the compression used on Sirius radio. Audible with her crummy stock car radio. God forbid you sink some money into car audio and expect to be able to listen to Sirius radio. You would be very disappointed in short order.
   
  Digital artifacts can be noticed more easily with your eyes, as we tend to be more observant with them (some of us anyhow). Just watch some sports on High Def TV. Or the is closeups of many small rapids taking up the screen. The compression can't keep up to the amount of information and you get pixel blocks everywhere to fill in the gaps. This is true for compressed music. The fix would be double or tripple the bandwidth.  Unfortunately this won't happen because the majority of people aren't sufficiently sensitive enough to notice the issue at their nose.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> I just bought a used moon audio dragon v3 from a fellow head-fier for ****s and giggles.
> Although the brightness that was too much to bear has worn off since I bought them in november.


 
  I tried the Blue Dragon on my HD800s and thought they were too sibilant and sent them back. I then got the Black Dragon V3 and it's wonderful, not sibilant at all but still full of texture-details and spatial
  information, much more full and robust than the the stock cable. I have not tried the Silver Dragons on the HD800s (the Silver Dragons are GREAT on my HE500s and LCD3s).
   
  A reviewer who wrote a major review for, I think, Positive Feedback, but I'm not sure on the HD800s highly recommends the Blue Dragons for them, but like I said, they were too bright for me.
  The stock cable is also a little too analytical, a bit "clicky" sounding to me.


----------



## Girls Generation

I've come to accept what I have at hand. When at home, I get great quality music. When I'm moving around or in the car, I just don't care about minute things like artifact. I just enjoy the music, like it was meant to be, while minding my business. In other words, I care more about the music itself than the smaller peculiarities.  But that's just me. I just can't imagine how terrible it would be if I were to worry about bad quality sound whenever and wherever I am.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Please don't mention compression in a favoured light. I mean really. It deliberately cuts transients as though they are a bad thing.


 
  I think loudness compression is partly justified for cars:
  - you can't hear quietest parts, when there is noise outside
  - the driver can't play endlessly with the volume knob while driving
  - off course it's easier for radio, to match a single volume level, when everything is loudness compressed.
   
  One purpose of loudness compression, (beside of making everything louder) is to make quieter part easier to listen.
  A good analogy of loudness compression for photo, is HDR photography :
  when the effect is exaggerated you see clearly local details, but the gobal contrast is killed, and the pic look fake.
  Your analogy with "high def tv", corresponds more to "lossy compression", which is different to "loudness" one


----------



## jtinto

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> A reviewer who wrote a major review for, I think, Positive Feedback, but I'm not sure on the HD800s highly recommends the Blue Dragons for them, but like I said, they were too bright for me.


 
   
  Drew recommended the Black for the HD-800 when I asked him.
  I thought the brightness tilt would be Silver > Black > Blue
  maybe not ...


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





jtinto said:


> Drew recommended the Black for the HD-800 when I asked him.
> I thought the brightness tilt would be Silver > Black > Blue
> maybe not ...


 
  Thanks for that info jtinto. No, Black dragon is I think the warmest, but the new V3 version somehow keeps the bass nice and controlled.
  Long ago, the black dragons were just what my K701s needed, so I've been a fan of them (and Silver Dragons too) for years now.
  I even use Moon's extension cords (Blacks and Silvers) for my Grados in place of the stock Grado extension, and they are a big improvement
  with my RS1s and GS1000is.


----------



## Spakka

Aaagh, cable discussions!
   
   
  Anyways, 
   
  Moving on to something about the HD800;
   
  Can removing the inner ear cover things cause any damage to the HD800s with fluff and hair etc. getting into the drivers, or is it safe to try?
   
  I'm not sure I'd want to risk it unless there is no/very little risk.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





spakka said:


> Can removing the inner ear cover things cause any damage to the HD800s with fluff and hair etc. getting into the drivers, or is it safe to try?


 
  I think that the inner cover has a purpose. Otherwise the manual suggest you can remove it in order to clean it.


----------



## jazzerdave

I forgot to mention that my used HD800 came in today (sn 05xxx). I'm enjoying the hell out of them with the Liquid Glass (fed by a modified Denon 3910). It's a brilliant combo.


----------



## Currawong

People, please keep on topic, as I'm sure nobody wants to be locked out of it.


----------



## LugBug1

Don't worry Currawong, there'll be no more Tom foolery, buffoonery or downright silliness now that I'm here!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Mine came today! s/n 212XX 
   
  I'll post some impressions when I've let them run in a little.


----------



## korzena

...waiting for Sennheiser HD-1600 with resolved treble issue (no Anax mod or anything like that!) and no need for expensive specifically matched amp....and this is at half price of HD-800...ok, at the price of HD-800 (they can't go on raising prices endlessly with new flagships). 
Just dreaming)


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Don't worry Currawong, there'll be no more Tom foolery, buffoonery or downright silliness now that I'm here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Time to let the K701s go...  They really can't compete with these..


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





korzena said:


> ...waiting for Sennheiser HD-1600 with resolved treble issue (no Anax mod or anything like that!) and no need for expensive specifically matched amp....and this is at half price of HD-800...ok, at the price of HD-800 (they can't go on raising prices endlessly with new flagships).
> Just dreaming)


 
  I'd like to think that my HD800 rig isn't really outrageous. My dac and amp are both fairly reasonable in terms of cost and I really like my HD800 stock. As far as matched amps that goes for just about every flagship.


----------



## korzena

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> I'd like to think that my HD800 rig isn't really outrageous. My dac and amp are both fairly reasonable in terms of cost and I really like my HD800 stock. As far as matched amps that goes for just about every flagship.


 
  As far as I read HD800 is much more finicky about amp selection than many other flagships (e.g. LCD-2 is not that demanding).
  Still it's good to hear that HD800 can sound great with reasonably priced equipment.
  Still I wish something like HD1600 come to the market one day!


----------



## DairyProduce

Rawrster, what's your current setup with the hd800? Your profile says you have the he-6. How would you compare them?


----------



## rawrster

My HD800 setup has the Mjolnir as the amp and my Yulong D18 as the dac. The HE6 sounds quite a bit different than the HD800. If one was to say the HD800 and LCD2/3 are on different sides of the spectrum the HE6 would be in the middle.
   
  If someone had the amping requirements the HE6 is the safer choice since I could see more people like them than the HD800. I find that the HE6 is a bit more smooth sounding with a more engaging midrange and a surprisingly powerful bass.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Time to let the K701s go...  They really can't compete with these..


 
  you're right.. but how do I tell them..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Its like someone has cleaned the windows, "I can see clearly now" 
   
  Very early impressions:
  Yup, great soundstage, but not as big as I had imagined? It's a lot more accurate. I thought it would have overly stretched some more intimate music, but it doesn't. I'm pleased about this because this is better for jazz etc. It's the depth that is fantastic, holographic indeed. 
   
  FR is very well balanced from top to bottom, good bass extension and detail. Treble also has great extension and reminds me of the HE500, very smooth but highly detailed. I get the impression that I'm not missng any information from the recording.
   
  Wonderful with classical, but I was expecting this. What I am surprised with, is how good these are with electronic music. I had a preconceived idea that they would be too thin sounding. But I'm getting nice thuds and plicks, feeling a lot of the music as opposed to just hearing it. Must be that air-flow business they talk about..  
   
  Getting back to classical, the timbre and space around instruments from the Tokyo Quartet playing Bhoven.. Eerily real. 
   
  So just after a couple of hours... They are like an HE500 with an AKG soundstage. But with a resolution that I'm new to so can't compare it. I'm happy!


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> you're right.. but how do I tell them..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I told ya! LCD-2 were ready to left my home immediately I put HD800 on my head (due to financial reasons mainly but still)...
   
  So what's your take on HD800 vs HE-500?
   
  Btw, StageDAC (w/ crossfeed on) does GREAT job in perfecting the HD800's soundstage - it's like combining advantages of both speakers and headphones together. Of course, nothing is completely perfect but this is my endgame rig for sure.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





rusta said:


> I told ya! LCD-2 were ready to left my home immediately I put HD800 on my head (due to financial reasons mainly but still)...
> 
> *So what's your take on HD800 vs HE-500?*
> 
> Btw, StageDAC (w/ crossfeed on) does GREAT job in perfecting the HD800's soundstage - it's like combining advantages of both speakers and headphones together. Of course, nothing is completely perfect but this is my endgame rig for sure.


 
  Based on memory, as I haven't had the HE500's for a few months now. The treble is similar to the hifimans with velour pads but I think there is a slight peak right at the very top that is more prominent on the HD800, this uncovers more detail and little ambient noises are emphasized more. The bass isn't as strong as the HE500's but I'd say it's better quality. Tighter and more balanced. The HE500's do have a slight mid-bass hump that is nice for EDM but can cause a little congestion in the mids. The HD800's has more sub-bass emphasis and you get more of a thrill when the cello's kick in. 
   
  The soundstage and imaging is quite a lot better on the Senn's, the music is free without restrictions. The HE500's as I've already stated do have a bit congestion in the mids, this is nice for certain genres but not ideal for larger works where the music needs to breath more. The planars also have a more classic stereo image where as the HD800's project the image more in front of you.  
   
  The HE500's have nicer treble as a whole, its just that bit more sweet. But this all depends on personal preference. If all I listened to was classical then the HD800's treble would be more suitable as it does uncover everything. Both are very smooth and grain-free.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

rawrster said:


> If someone had the amping requirements the HE6 is the safer choice since I could see more people like them than the HD800. I find that the HE6 is a bit more smooth sounding with a more engaging midrange and a surprisingly powerful bass.




With the exception of bass response, this was the exact opposite of what I have found. HE6 sounds comparatively sibilant on top, has a less prominent (exciting) midrange than HD800, and is definitely less popular at the meets.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> My HD800 setup has the Mjolnir as the amp and my Yulong D18 as the dac. The HE6 sounds quite a bit different than the HD800. If one was to say the HD800 and LCD2/3 are on different sides of the spectrum the HE6 would be in the middle.
> 
> If someone had the amping requirements the HE6 is the safer choice since I could see more people like them than the HD800. *I find that the HE6 is a bit more smooth sounding with a more engaging midrange and a surprisingly powerful bass.*


 
   
  I agree with you here.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> With the exception of bass response, this was the exact opposite of what I have found. HE6 sounds comparatively sibilant on top, has a less prominent (exciting) midrange than HD800, and is definitely less popular at the meets.


 
   
  Each meet I've been to the HE-6 took Best in Show.  While the HD800 hardly got any head time.  This has been the case at three meets thus far.  The next meet in May there will be 3 First Watts speaker amps there.  "Just for the HE-6"  Seems like it going to be another HE-6 show case.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

HD800, LCD-3, and the Stax rigs pretty much dominated the Austin meet. I always try the HE6 when I see it, hoping a different amp/source combo will eventually deliver the sonic benefits described above. No luck yet... but maybe someday.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> HD800, LCD-3, and the Stax rigs pretty much dominated the Austin meet. I always try the HE6 when I see it, hoping a different amp/source combo will eventually deliver the sonic benefits described above. No luck yet... but maybe someday.


 
   
   
  Oh yeah - my bad.  Stax rigs always either have some one hoggin the rig or it's a line.  Yup - your right about that..


----------



## Cante Ista

I have heard the HD800 sharper at times and smoother at times than the HE-6. It depends on the other gear, IME. For instance, HD800 with Phonitor has a smoother (i.e. more velvety) presentation, while the HE-6 on F3 is really crisp and presents a very well defined and crisp image with great extension into treble as well as bass.


----------



## toschek

Thanks for sharing your impressions of the HD800 vs. HE-6, I hope there is another bay area meet in the near future, now that I have a powerful enough amp I'd love to hear the difference myself. 

A while back someone in this thread suggested running the HD800s off speaker taps, would the HiFiMan speaker tap/xlr kit be the best way to do this or run a straight cable to tap connection with resistors? If say I wanted to plug into a 12wpc@6Ω amp what resistors would I want to use?


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Thanks for sharing your impressions of the HD800 vs. HE-6, I hope there is another bay area meet in the near future, now that I have a powerful enough amp I'd love to hear the difference myself.
> 
> A while back someone in this thread suggested running the HD800s off speaker taps, would the HiFiMan speaker tap/xlr kit be the best way to do this or run a straight cable to tap connection with resistors? If say I wanted to plug into a 12wpc@6Ω amp what resistors would I want to use?


 

 I run my HD800 of my F3 (15WPC) speaker amp -- directly off speaker taps -- sometimes. I am not sure how well the HE resistor box would work with HD800. I am pretty sure it would degrade the sound though.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> I run my HD800 of my F3 (15WPC) speaker amp -- directly off speaker taps -- sometimes. I am not sure how well the HE resistor box would work with HD800. I am pretty sure it would degrade the sound though.


 
   
  It depends on the type and power of the amp.  For a 15W SS amp, there's no true need for it, and yes, it would probably degrade the sound.  For a 100W SS amp, you'd probably blow the cans without it.  For a ~30W tube amp, the box is there to protect the amp more than the headphones.  (All in gross generalities, but that's the idea).


----------



## Solude

The adapter boxes are to change the impedance that the amp sees, not the power delivered to the can.  SS amps should be fine without, while a transformer coupled tube amp would be happier with the box.  100W amp into the HD800 is ~2W, enough to blow it but nothing outrageous.


----------



## Deltaechoe

So, I just recently discovered an actual good hi-fi store near where I live (screwing awesome) and they had the HD 800s available to demo.  I think that was the first time I'd actually been floored by headphones, I literally could not stand because they sounded so clean.  Without a doubt I can honestly say that these are the greatest headphones that I, personally, have EVER listened to and I am now even more jealous of anyone that has a pair.


----------



## LugBug1

Few more impressions;
   
  Everything I'm throwing at these sounds good! The amount of times I've read that they need good recordings to sound good.. So not true. They have a certain silky charm that renders even bad recordings listenable. I've never heard strings sound this good. The texture and realness with some of my fave orchestral pieces is incredible. I'm not left wanting anything, or wanting less of anything. A perfect balance? 
   
Getting back to that silky charm, its almost planar-esque. _liquidy_. Like smearing your naked body with butter and wrestling your partner (who is also coated in butter) to the floor in a display of forcefulness  that encapsulates an expression of need. This, without any fear of friction burns. 
   
The bass is warm, lovely and warm. Like the heat radiating from your flesh after hours of lovemaking on a summers night. 
   
Nothing is messing with the middle frequencies. Instruments are there, where they should be. There is air. Each timbre laid bare. Naked and free, like young lovers running through cotton fields.. Never straying to far away from each other. Occasionally meeting when the need overwhelms them. But this is natural, nothing is forced. 
   
The treble seems very well extended. Not too much. Extended enough. Almost like a lovers tongue as it  explores... Exploring a landscape of flesh, picking up all tastes and textures as it searches. Searching for what? Everything that is in its path. It all tastes good. 
   
*Cough*


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Few more impressions;
> 
> Everything I'm throwing at these sounds good! The amount of times I've read that they need good recordings to sound good.. So not true. They have a certain silky charm that renders even bad recordings listenable. I've never heard strings sound this good. The texture and realness with some of my fave orchestral pieces is incredible. I'm not left wanting anything, or wanting less of anything. A perfect balance?
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Errr uumm


----------



## toschek

lugbug1 said:


> Few more impressions;
> 
> Everything I'm throwing at these sounds good! The amount of times I've read that they need good recordings to sound good.. So not true. They have a certain silky charm that renders even bad recordings listenable. I've never heard strings sound this good. The texture and realness with some of my fave orchestral pieces is incredible. I'm not left wanting anything, or wanting less of anything. A perfect balance?
> 
> ...




I feel dirty after reading that, good show.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Errr uumm


 
   
  Quote: 





toschek said:


> I feel dirty after reading that, good show.


 
  thanks guys, just for laughs  
   
  But in all seriousness, these are my endgame phones. Can now start to look at upgrading the rest of my equipment to match. Still got a long journey ahead


----------



## FlySweep

lugbug1 said:


> Few more impressions;
> 
> Everything I'm throwing at these sounds good! The amount of times I've read that they need good recordings to sound good.. So not true. They have a certain silky charm that renders even bad recordings listenable. I've never heard strings sound this good. The texture and realness with some of my fave orchestral pieces is incredible. I'm not left wanting anything, or wanting less of anything. A perfect balance?
> 
> ...


 
  LMAO..
   
  POST OF THE YEAR.
   
  ** After reading that, I need a cigarette **


----------



## Nick Dangerous

(fans self & fires a sideways come hither glance at HD800's on the table...)


----------



## LugBug1

Thank you ^^ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Man I'm enjoying these!! Got some late night ambient going in the shape of Tim Hecker and bass is rumbling. Very deeeep.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> The treble seems very well extended. Not too much. Extended enough.


 
   
  Why a treble would be too much extended ? This was partly my feeling, that the treble doesn't extend completely,
  although I  wasn't completely sure until you mentioned  this. Maybe there's a slight treble emphasis to compensate this ?
  Off course it's not an issue.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Ugh, still can't make up my mind on an AMP+Dac for my hd800s


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Ugh, still can't make up my mind on an AMP+Dac for my hd800s


 
   
  For a Solid State amp.  Getting on the GS-X mk2 list would be a good idea..


----------



## jazzerdave

It seems like not everyone here is completely familiar with LugBug1's ummm... prose. This version doesn't "come out to play" too often, but look around, and you'll find more. I find it can be entertaining.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





preproman said:


> For a Solid State amp.  Getting on the GS-X mk2 list would be a good idea..


 
   
   $2500?
   
  ''/


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> $2500?
> 
> ''/


 
   
  Yes


----------



## BournePerfect

No: $3000. 

-Daniel


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> No: $3000.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ouch.  Your right, I just checked.  Can't say that I blame him given the demand.


----------



## BournePerfect

Well he said cost are higher than the mki. Guess the first run was discounted-kinda like EC/Craig does. If my Leviathan ever finalizes, I could see myself getting a mkii for an ss endgame amp/pre.

-Daniel


----------



## preproman

Oh yep - your right..


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Well he said cost are higher than the mki. Guess the first run was discounted-kinda like EC/Craig does. If my Leviathan ever finalizes, I could see myself getting a mkii for an *ss* endgame amp/pre.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  Being a long time "tube guy", I gotta say the GS-X is simply a worthy endgame amp....period.


----------



## Dubstep Girl




----------



## anetode

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Few more impressions;
> 
> Everything I'm throwing at these sounds good! The amount of times I've read that they need good recordings to sound good.. So not true. They have a certain silky charm that renders even bad recordings listenable. I've never heard strings sound this good. The texture and realness with some of my fave orchestral pieces is incredible. I'm not left wanting anything, or wanting less of anything. A perfect balance?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Make sure to clean them after each, um, use.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


>


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

I'm thinking about soloist SL + DAC, not sure which DAC though.


----------



## BournePerfect

macedonianhero said:


> Being a long time "tube guy", I gotta say the GS-X is simply a worthy endgame amp....period.




Not quite sure the GSX will drive speakers quite as well as the ECL, Pete.  I'll someday find out if the headphone output is on par though-hopefully by summer I will have my hands on both.

-Daniel


----------



## olor1n

Congrats LugBug1! You're preaching to the choir here but it's always entertaining to read someone's initial impressions.
   
  How does the crow taste btw? You and paradoxper should share recipes.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Congrats LugBug1! You're preaching to the choir here but it's always entertaining to read someone's initial impressions.
> 
> *How does the crow taste btw?* You and paradoxper should share recipes.


 
  Thanks 
   
  Haha, not _that_ hard to swallow... Once its coated in butter!


----------



## FlySweep

I've had the HD800 for close to three months now & despite using them on a daily basis, it still takes me about half an hour of continuous use to _fully_ adjust to its 'sound.'  I typically listen in the evenings (after I'm worn silly from hours of playing basketball, followed by weightlifting).. so I'm mentally & physically ready to unwind (and I'm not adjusting from the signature of another headphone).  Though after a half hour or so, I'm so immersed in their sound that you'd have to knock me out to pry them off my head.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I think loudness compression is partly justified for cars:
> - you can't hear quietest parts, when there is noise outside
> - the driver can't play endlessly with the volume knob while driving
> - off course it's easier for radio, to match a single volume level, when everything is loudness compressed.
> ...


 
   
  Yes, that's my bad.  I switched gears without clearly defining either type.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> I have heard the HD800 sharper at times and smoother at times than the HE-6. It depends on the other gear, IME. For instance, HD800 with Phonitor has a smoother (i.e. more velvety) presentation, while the HE-6 on F3 is really crisp and presents a very well defined and crisp image with great extension into treble as well as bass.


 
   
  During my research before jumping into the world of quality headphones, I came up with the HD800 for this very reason. I saw time and time again different results from the HP based on what its connected to. This told me is that the HP is extremely revealing because it can't help but just deal with what its given. As a transducer I believe that is pretty much the goal. If you need to suit to taste, the equipment can be modified. The benefit is that when you do find quality recordings, you can actually hear it rather than it being impeded by coloration.  But I think I might be preaching to the choir in this thread.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I think that the inner cover has a purpose. Otherwise the manual suggest you can remove it in order to clean it.


 
   
  I believe it would be okay to try, just long term your increasing your chances of dirt and damage. I don't think a good listen once would hurt anything. I'm bald though, so not much gets dragged into the phones.  I only removed them initially because I thought I was hearing a rattle in one channel, then I pulled out both to have a look. Then I figured... why not? Yeah.
   
  I put them back in today. I'm not missing anything.... heh. I'll just keep saying that over and over again.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Don't worry Currawong, there'll be no more Tom foolery, buffoonery or downright silliness now that I'm here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I only got mine beginning of February and they are 204XX. Sales can't be too bad.  I hope Sennheiser is starting get past their break even point. I would have to guess that their flagship releases fund successively.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I only got mine beginning of February and they are 204XX. Sales can't be too bad.  I hope Sennheiser is starting get past their break even point. I would have to guess that their flagship releases fund successively.


 
  Yeah I was surprised at the 21XXX, must be selling like hotcakes!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Thanks
> 
> Haha, not _that_ hard to swallow... Once its coated in butter!


 
  Hot sauce and lack of pride fixes everything.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





deltaechoe said:


> So, I just recently discovered an actual good hi-fi store near where I live (screwing awesome) and they had the HD 800s available to demo.  I think that was the first time I'd actually been floored by headphones, I literally could not stand because they sounded so clean.  Without a doubt I can honestly say that these are the greatest headphones that I, personally, have EVER listened to and I am now even more jealous of anyone that has a pair.


 
   
  ...and another head-fier is born. God help you if they open a Stax demo.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Being a long time "tube guy", I gotta say the GS-X is simply a worthy endgame amp....period.


 
   
  Hey, I think the market has done a flip. Tubes used to be at the other end of the cost performance spectrum. Not saying they still aren't. But to "Get there" many years ago, it would be pretty much expected you would hit a tube or two somewhere in your setup.  Now you can get get good performance for your $ with hybrid tube amps.


----------



## toschek

nightflight said:


> ...and another head-fier is born. God help you if they open a Stax demo.




Stax are so freaking cool, I would be so nervous with that much voltage though. I sweat a lot in the summer and I would probably ruin the headphones in a matter of weeks.


----------



## zigy626

I know that Tyll described the HD800 as an F1 car and after listening to them for the last 3 days  I know why.  They are very revelling and with my current setup they sound harsh. Can't seem to wear them for a long time. Is there any way of reducing the harshness or make them sound a bit mellow. I am using the Audiolab m-dac and Meier corda jazz. Should I put a cheap tube per-amp in the chain? Something like the Bravo audio ocean blue.


----------



## toschek

I have never noticed any harshness with mine. I usually use a tube amp with them, but even when I listen on my solid state AVR there is no harshness. 

It could be a problem with your source material? There is also the Anax mod to tame treble spikes, search the thread and you will find it. Personally I haven't done it, because I don't feel a need to, but other people swear by it.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> I know that Tyll described the HD800 as an F1 car and after listening to them for the last 3 days  I know why.  They are very revelling and with my current setup they sound harsh. Can't seem to wear them for a long time. Is there any way of reducing the harshness or make them sound a bit mellow. I am using the Audiolab m-dac and Meier corda jazz. Should I put a cheap tube per-amp in the chain? Something like the Bravo audio ocean blue.


 
  I believe for amps usually you get what you pay for. IMO tube amps like the Decware CSP2 is excellent for the HD800. The V200 solid state amp also is outstanding and not hard and has musicality/. The hd800 will reveal everything in your system so you should get the best  amp you could afford to buy with the best source you could also afford to buy,


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Hot sauce and lack of pride fixes everything.


 
  Ditto 
   
  If I could just ask everyone; who prefers solid state over tubes with these? I've only heard them on my two SS amps and they don't seem to be lacking anything. My Audio gd c2.2 is powering them well (I think!). I'm getting a lovely warm sound. Even my bedside M-stage is powering these surprisingly well. I do want to try tubes again at some point like I did with the 650's, but I'm thinking that I don't want to colour the sound or lose any sharpness.. 
   
  One other thing I've noticed, they seem quite sensitive. I have the same volume (more or less) with these as my K701's? low gain on both my amps!


----------



## Maxvla

They are fairly easy to drive on average, but they have a crazy impedance plot that will test even the best of amps.


----------



## mink70

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> I know that Tyll described the HD800 as an F1 car and after listening to them for the last 3 days  I know why.  They are very revelling and with my current setup they sound harsh. Can't seem to wear them for a long time. Is there any way of reducing the harshness or make them sound a bit mellow. I am using the Audiolab m-dac and Meier corda jazz. Should I put a cheap tube per-amp in the chain? Something like the Bravo audio ocean blue.


 
  I tried the HD800s with a DacPort LX and couldn't listen to them. Then I realized that the headphone was simply showing me how the LX sounds—I've always found it a bright DAC, but most headphones roll off the top. The HD800 doesn't—it reveals everything—so the trick is to find a combination of source and amp that doesn't err on either side of the frequency spectrum. In my system, replacing the LX with a MHDT Havana solved the problem. By themselves, I don't find the HD800s bright or harsh in the least. To me they sound balanced, neutral, and correct.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I believe for amps usually you get what you pay for. IMO tube amps like the Decware CSP2 is excellent for the HD800. The V200 solid state amp also is outstanding and not hard and has musicality/. The hd800 will reveal everything in your system so you should get the best  amp you could afford to buy with the best source you could also afford to buy,


 
  I agree with you. And think I will opt for the V200 by now have heard many good things about it.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





mink70 said:


> I tried the HD800s with a DacPort LX and couldn't listen to them. Then I realized that the headphone was simply showing me how the LX sounds—I've always found it a bright DAC, but most headphones roll off the top. The HD800 doesn't—it reveals everything—so the trick is to find a combination of source and amp that doesn't err on either side of the frequency spectrum. In my system, replacing the LX with a MHDT Havana solved the problem. By themselves, I don't find the HD800s bright or harsh in the least. To me they sound balanced, neutral, and correct.


 
  You are right the HD800 is a balanced, neutral headphone but its a very bright with my current setup. I think it's my source the M-Dac will try with another DAC.


----------



## LugBug1

2nd day impressions  
   
  Finally had a bit more time with these. I'm off work this week and was looking forward to starting an everlasting relationship with my new HD800's... But the wife has got plans... Got me decorating the living room... There's also been talk of "brightening up the kitchen" I'm not amused. 
   
  Anyways,
   
  Been going through some more favorites tonight. Mainly classical, and the feeling I'm now getting is how 'easy' the music is. Now, whether I've been preparing myself for the clinical/analytical sound a little _too_ much, I'm not sure. But pieces that I'm very familiar with are very, _very _easy on the ears. Quite soft on the gentler parts, but then BAM! when the louder parts kick in. Great dynamics. I've been testing these with some rather harsh brass that has caused me discomfort in the past and yes it is harsh. But no more harsh than many other headphones I've heard. In fact, I would say less so. Makes me wonder If I maybe underamping them..? I doubt it, as my amp gives out 3 watts into 32 ohms.... But you never know. 
   
  Talking about giving out. These really are delivering. like a Nymphomaniac on Viagra! Everything is for the taking. There are things I've not heard before. Things that I've newly discovered! Like a small mole you find on a lovers backside when they bend over the bed to pick the remote control up..
  I'm hearing little shimmers of percussion that were easily hidden with lesser phones. A shimmering, not dissimilar to shards of sunlight reflected of a naval piercing- glimpsed briefly as you come up for air whilst pleasuring a good friend on holiday.... etc 
   
  It's all good


----------



## jtinto

thanks for the chuckles LugBug1
  I'll have to try that remote control trick ...


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> It's all good


 
   
  You sir, should be knighted with a new subtitle. Suggestions welcome for Mr. Bedphones.


----------



## LugBug1

No probs  
   
  I've just been going through a few old rock raves, I love REM. The realness in Stipes voice is amazing. The past year I've been listening to planars and the difference is in the push (or thump) that you get more of with orthos. The Senns are more refined and less intimate. I can see how some would still need an orthos aswell as these for those such attributes. Having said that, there is so much to lose in comparison. The HD800's are the closest I've come yet to perfection.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> You sir, should be knighted with a new subtitle. Suggestions welcome for Mr. Bedphones.


 
  Haha thanks, I'd like a title!


----------



## olor1n

I freakin' love REM from the HD800. Pearl Jam is another that sounds especially great. Vedder's softer acoustic stuff (ie Into the Wild OST) is magnificent as well.


----------



## BournePerfect

Oh my gosh olor1n-those are two of my favorites on the HD 800 along with Dire Straits and Radiohead. Helps that they are both mastered quite well-at least Rearview Mirror is and most of the other ones I mentioned. Side note: RH's Yorke sounds _earily_ similar to Stipes on some songs...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Haha thanks, I'd like a title!


 
   
   
  Seems to me like you're auditioning for a 6Moons writing position with those other two posts.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> I freakin' love REM from the HD800. Pearl Jam is another that sounds especially great. Vedder's softer acoustic stuff (ie Into the Wild OST) is magnificent as well.


 
   
  Whats the FR Ken, has always been a tester track for me because it has to be one the greatest electric guitar sounds ever. Up to now, its a close call between these and my old RS1's for reproducing it.  
  Incidently, my fave REM tracks are Country feedback and Half a world away.. both off the same album.
   
  Yup, grew up loving Pearl Jam and Soundgarden all good. Vedder's voice is getting even better as the years go by imo.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





jwahl said:


> Seems to me like you're auditioning for a 6Moons writing position with those other two posts.


 
  I doubt they'd like a pervert like me writing for them


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Not quite sure the GSX will drive speakers quite as well as the ECL, Pete.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  LoL, no, not speakers. But they're setting on my shelf rarely played. Not sure if you have young kids, but for me, that horizon is still a ways off. I thought long and hard about upgrading my speakers to the Totem Forests, but I would rarely get to use them with kids who go to bed at 8pm.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> I know that Tyll described the HD800 as an F1 car and after listening to them for the last 3 days  I know why.  They are very revelling and with my current setup they sound harsh. Can't seem to wear them for a long time. Is there any way of reducing the harshness or make them sound a bit mellow. I am using the Audiolab m-dac and Meier corda jazz. Should I put a cheap tube per-amp in the chain? Something like the Bravo audio ocean blue.


 
   
  SS and tube alike suffer from component selection and arrangement and implementation. Source material plays the biggest role. IMHO new tubes take about 100hrs to break in, if not a little longer to settle fully. Same can be said for the whole chain in fact. Your 800s storage box it came in makes a fantastic hush box. Run 'em for a couple hundred hours in there and come back and see after. To me, there was significant improvement. *shrug* YMMV.
   
  I bought a Schiit Asgard with the 800s for comparison to the Lyr, just for Schiits and giggles. The Asgard was a bit shrill and shrieky.  Beside the Lyr, the Asgard I managed to test in at most 10 minute spurts, stretched days apart.  My brother identified the issue when I sent it to him. Apparently so did Schiit in the Asgard 2. *shrug*.   You can say its the Asgard SS amp and the HD800s are a bad match, and that SS amp does better with a darker headphone that isn't quite as revealing in the highs.


----------



## jronan2

Those of you who have bought custom colored HD800's from colorware, just wanted to know if it was worth it? Do they do good work that will last? I'm thinking of getting a custom colored HD800. After messing around with the paints, I can't even look at the stock HD 800. I know it's all about how they sound but I thought getting them painted would be a good idea since the stock ones chip pretty easily from what I have heard.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Those of you who have bought custom colored HD800's from colorware, just wanted to know if it was worth it? Do they do good work that will last? I'm thinking of getting a custom colored HD800. After messing around with the paints, I can't even look at the stock HD 800. I know it's all about how they sound but I thought getting them painted would be a good idea since the stock ones chip pretty easily from what I have heard.


 
   
  I had been planning to buy some custom HD800's from Colorware, but ended up saving some money and buying an older used pair (with a bit a chipping no less).  I may eventually go the Colorware route still.  I believe Maxvla has had his all-black Colorware HD800's for a while, and there was certainly no chipping when I saw them in person.  They looked great, and it seemed like the finish would be more durable.  Seeing one in person definitely did nothing to dissuade me from going the Colorware route.  If I hadn't suddenly got the urge to try to conserve money, I'd be waiting on a custom job from Colorware right now.


----------



## jonnydeal

mdclxvi said:


> The HD800s are on my head right now.. listening to Coastal Grooves by Blood Orange and it is superb


 Yeah, I had sense, they were great, till I listened to gradolabs ps1000's, they are in a completely different league.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





jonnydeal said:


> Yeah, I had sense, they were great, till I listened to gradolabs ps1000's, they are in a completely different league.


 
   
  I'm not sure I quite follow your sentence structure.


----------



## toschek

nightflight said:


> SS and tube alike suffer from component selection and arrangement and implementation. Source material plays the biggest role. IMHO new tubes take about 100hrs to break in, if not a little longer to settle fully. Same can be said for the whole chain in fact. Your 800s storage box it came in makes a fantastic hush box. Run 'em for a couple hundred hours in there and come back and see after. To me, there was significant improvement. *shrug* YMMV.
> 
> I bought a Schiit Asgard with the 800s for comparison to the Lyr, just for Schiits and giggles. The Asgard was a bit shrill and shrieky.  Beside the Lyr, the Asgard I managed to test in at most 10 minute spurts, stretched days apart.  My brother identified the issue when I sent it to him. Apparently so did Schiit in the Asgard 2. *shrug*.   You can say its the Asgard SS amp and the HD800s are a bad match, and that SS amp does better with a darker headphone that isn't quite as revealing in the highs.




I think the Asgard 1/2 are just a bad match to the hd800s in general. I have heard SS sound really good with the hd800, like I say, my Denon AVR is just great with them on movies/games/sports & armchair listening. People seem to like the Violectric and GS-X amps with them a lot. The Schiit Lyr is nowhere near the level of performance of a V200 or GS-X though.


----------



## Girls Generation

Whether something is worth it to someone or not is purely preference and personal opinion. If you don't like stock colors, I don't know why you're asking this lol. 
   
  I live by this rule: *If in doubt, DO it.*
  Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Those of you who have bought custom colored HD800's from colorware, just wanted to know if it was worth it? Do they do good work that will last? I'm thinking of getting a custom colored HD800. After messing around with the paints, I can't even look at the stock HD 800. I know it's all about how they sound but I thought getting them painted would be a good idea since the stock ones chip pretty easily from what I have heard.


----------



## Girls Generation

Ah, the usual Head-Fi hyperbole. The Lyr isn't "no match" for V200, though I can't say for GS-X. Honestly, improvements are not as night and day as you make it out to be, thus your post is misleading and trapping people into spending more. 
   
  Asgard 2 was great with HD800, but Lyr sounds a bit more musical. V200 is good but not that much better. 
   
  Shrill may be due to harsh DAC, not JUST the amp. HD800 is inherently bright, so unless you have some warm wet sounding tubes and tube amps to deal with it, you're still going to get that bright treble...
  Quote: 





toschek said:


> I think the Asgard 1/2 are just a bad match to the hd800s in general. I have heard SS sound really good with the hd800, like I say, my Denon AVR is just great with them on movies/games/sports & armchair listening. People seem to like the Violectric and GS-X amps with them a lot. The Schiit Lyr is nowhere near the level of performance of a V200 or GS-X though.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> LoL, no, not speakers. But they're setting on my shelf rarely played. Not sure if you have young kids, but for me, that horizon is still a ways off. I thought long and hard about upgrading my speakers to the Totem Forests, but I would rarely get to use them with kids who go to bed at 8pm.


 
   
  Funny you should mention this... my son is nearly 3 and, as I've recently discovered, sleeps like a rock. So I've cashed in some of my headphone gear and bought some Totem Hawks. I've forgotten how nice loud music on speakers can be.


----------



## bearFNF

I dont mind the A2 with my HD800s,  I think it does a fine job.  I had an oppotuinty this week to listen to my phones and another set of anax 2.0 modded phones on a couple of different amps balanced and SE (one tube amp, also) and there were subtle differences but nothing that tells me so far that there is a huge issue with the A2.  Maybe that will change when the Taboo gets here, but that may be more due to the lucid mode...we'll see.


----------



## toschek

Hey I didn't say "no match" maybe nowhere near is a little strong if you consider tube rolling options, but it isn't hyperbolic to say the Violectric V200 is more than marginally better than a Lyr with stock tubes. I don't mind a good debate, but don't put words in my mouth man.


----------



## Girls Generation

No match, and nowhere is probably more close than not.
  Quote: 





toschek said:


> Hey I didn't say "no match" maybe nowhere near is a little strong if you consider tune rolling options, but it isn't hyperbolic to say the Violectric V200 is more than marginally better than a Lyr with stock tubes. I don't mind a good debate, but don't put words in my mouth man.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Those of you who have bought custom colored HD800's from colorware, just wanted to know if it was worth it? Do they do good work that will last? I'm thinking of getting a custom colored HD800. After messing around with the paints, I can't even look at the stock HD 800. I know it's all about how they sound but I thought getting them painted would be a good idea since the stock ones chip pretty easily from what I have heard.


 
   
  Just note:  When you get the HD800 from colorware you have to pay the full price, or the $1500 price.  I sold my first pair pretty cheap not because of sound but because they chipped very easy.  You have to take very good care of the stock pair.  Chips seem to appear out of nowhere.  After conversations with a coloware rep., I was informed the gloss paint would last longer when compared to the matte paint.  I "MUCH" prefer the gloss paint. That's just me.  
   
  Another option would be to buy stock either new or used for less and send them to:  http://referencesounds.com/  He does a good job as well.
   
  So yes.  I'm glad I went with coloware and to me, they're very much worth it.  They do a really great job.


----------



## jronan2

Thank you prep for the Info. I think the extra $200 or so is worth it. Does colorware charge for shipping or sales tax?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Thank you prep for the Info. I think the extra $200 or so is worth it. Does colorware charge for shipping or sales tax?


 
   
  Yup.. +shipping..  Forgot about the tax though..


----------



## Solude

I'm still of the experience that the HD800 is very transparent and difficult to drive though not very power hungry and people are translating that into picky.
   
  I've had three and the first and second go were terrible.  I'll keep the HD600 instead thank you very much kind of terrible.  So yes the wrong amp and dac can change the HD800 from a $1500 reference headphone to one not worth $400 /facepalm
   
  For me anyway the keys to victory are a smooth source, no etch, and an amp with BJT outputs.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





solude said:


> I've had three and the first and second go were terrible.  I'll keep the HD600 instead thank you very much kind of terrible.  So yes the wrong amp and dac can change the HD800 from a $1500 reference headphone to one not worth $400 /facepalm


 
  They were similar claim for the k701 on the past : people that didn't like them , were dissed and told they use the wrong amp or whatever.
  I'm not convinced that the gap between a 400$ headphone  & 1500$ is that huge (at least not a "night and day" difference), it's perhaps why you have to tweak that much your source / amp to convince yourself that the difference is worth the price gap.
  And finally, the hd800 has qualities that will be exhibited on all source, such like their huge soundstage.


----------



## Solude

That's my point.  On an amp that can control the HD800 the soundstage is very tight.  Not large, not pushed out.  On my rig, which is neutral and transparent, the stage in in close, pinpoint but still with good left to right, front to back, top down placement.  Also the previous rigs weren't bright but had little to no bass presence, were thin and sounded completely lifeless.  On my current rig the bass presence is massive, with deep dynamic full bass.
   
  I'd agree it wasn't gear dependent if they sounded similar all three times but this time it sounds great.  Good enough for me to leave Audeze town without regret after owning the LCD-2 Rev1, Rev2 and LCD-3 for years.
   
  As for the K701, it has a frequency response that suggests it won't sound great and an impedance curve that suggests it's easy to control.  HD800 looks like it'll sound good and be difficult to control.
   
  Guess the other thing I will say is like the HD600 before, the HD800 scales very high and should be paired to amp and dacs that cost at least as much.


----------



## anetode

Quote: 





jonnydeal said:


> Yeah, I had sense, they were great, till I listened to gradolabs ps1000's, they are in a completely different league.


 
   
  Little league or special olympics?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Funny you should mention this... my son is nearly 3 and, as I've recently discovered, sleeps like a rock. So I've cashed in some of my headphone gear and bought some Totem Hawks. I've forgotten how nice loud music on speakers can be.


 
  Yeah, my 5 year old son is a light sleeper (lucky me) and my wife can hear a fly break wind....so no speakers for me after 8pm.


----------



## zigy626

I think I have come to the conclusion after reading many thread on the best Amp for the HD800. Many of the US residents have suggested Woo Audio WA22 which at $1900 is way off my budget add the custom duties for UK and we are looking at almost £1700 (WOW). Have read conflicting reports regarding the Lehmann Audio Black Cube some say its good for the HD800 while other disagree 
   
  Here is good review stating that Lehmann Audio has very good synergy with HD800's
   
  http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/hi-fi-plus-lehmann-black-cube-linear-usb-headphone-amplifierdac/
   
  Lastly I have heard mostly from Head-Fi comments from different people that Voilectric V200/V100 are great with HD800 also was recommended the G109 by Lake People.
   
  Now here is my dilemma I have already invested close to £900 on the Audiolab M-Dac and Meier Corda Jazz. Would it be worth to sell the whole lot on ebay and go with the above suggestions? I guess my question is very specific and not many have commented on M-DAC and HD800 synergy.


----------



## Solude

If you are happy stay where you are.  Just a quick note... V100 is not a downsized V200.  Also the WA22 is a really bad choice for value.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





solude said:


> If you are happy stay where you are.  Just a quick note... V100 is not a downsized V200.  Also the WA22 is a really bad choice for value.


 
  For the time being I am going to stay with the M-DAC and Jazz. The Developer for the M-Dac John Westlake is very active in the community and keeps on adding functions to the M-Dac with firmware updates. But will save up for a future upgrade down the line when it comes to the amp.


----------



## Solude

Audiolab has been a leader in high value audiophile products for decades now.  Definitely no reason to upgrade unless you have 2x the funds to spend at least.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> For the time being I am going to stay with the M-DAC and Jazz. The Developer for the M-Dac John Westlake is very active in the community and keeps on adding functions to the M-Dac with firmware updates. But will save up for a future upgrade down the line when it comes to the amp.


 
  I'm going to be looking at the M-Dac next 
   
  Just a note on the Lehmann, I have a M-Stage which is based on the Lehmann circuit and it seems to be good with the HD800's. Nothing seems lacking, I have it paired with an old Arcam black box dac that has a nice analogue feel to it.
  Why not give the M-stage a go? In this hobby its not always about price. More about synergy, and I'm sure it will be an improvement over the Mdac hp out (havent heard the Jazz). I have the opa627 class A bias mod and it takes it up another level in performance which is already very good for the price  I think it has better synergy with the HD800's than my more expensive Audio gd.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I'm going to be looking at the M-Dac next
> 
> Just a note on the Lehmann, I have a M-Stage which is based on the Lehmann circuit and it seems to be good with the HD800's. Nothing seems lacking, I have it paired with an old Arcam black box dac that has a nice analogue feel to it.
> Why not give the M-stage a go? In this hobby its not always about price. More about synergy, and I'm sure it will be an improvement over the Mdac hp out (havent heard the Jazz). I have the opa627 class A bias mod and it takes it up another level in performance which is already very good for the price  I think it has better synergy with the HD800's than my more expensive Audio gd.


 
  Thanks for that. I agree the M-Stage would be a good combination with the HD800. I sold mine unfortunately just a couple of months ago. Mainly because at the time I was using it with the HD650. The HD650 are a mellow sounding headphones to begin with and I thought the M-Stage made them sound even more on the mellow side. At that time did not have enough experience with the whole Sennheiser veil sound and thought the fault was with the M-Stage. Jazz is a very transparent amp so it does not colour the sound in anyway so if the source is bright then that is how it will sound. With HD800's I think they need that added mellowness/warmth that the tube amps and M-Stage provide if you want to listen to them for a long period of time. I guess that is way Lehmann was chosen to show case the HD800 early on its public debut.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Thanks for that. I agree the M-Stage would be a good combination with the HD800. I sold mine unfortunately just a couple of months ago. Mainly because at the time I was using it with the HD650. The HD650 are a mellow sounding headphones to begin with and I thought the M-Stage made them sound even more on the mellow side. At that time did not have enough experience with the whole Sennheiser veil sound and thought the fault was with the M-Stage. Jazz is a very transparent amp so it does not colour the sound in anyway so if the source is bright then that is how it will sound. With HD800's *I think they need that added mellowness/warmth that the tube amps and M-Stage provide if you want to listen to them for a long period of time. I guess that is way Lehmann was chosen to show case the HD800 early on its public debut.*


 
  Absolutely  
   
  My Audio c2.2 is even warmer than the M-stage and for my preference may soften the sound a little too much with the HD800's. Suppose it shows how transparent these cans are.


----------



## palmfish

Why get the HD800 if you want to warm them over? Youre losing detail when you do that, which seems to me goes against what the HD800 is all about.
   
  Im listening to my HD800 with a Benchmark DAC1 right now and the sound is full rich deep clear punchy and fast. Its a little brighter than some amps Ive tried, but it isnt strident or shrill in the least. Transparent is the word that comes to mind.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Why get the HD800 if you want to warm them over? Youre losing detail when you do that, which seems to me goes against what the HD800 is all about.
> 
> Im listening to my HD800 with a Benchmark DAC1 right now and the sound is full rich deep clear punchy and fast. Its a little brighter than some amps Ive tried, but it isnt strident or shrill in the least. Transparent is the word that comes to mind.


 
  Good question. This is taken from the review of the V200 by Project86
   
  "*Highs also follow the Violectric blueprint by having an emphasis on smoothness. They are extended and accurate, but like the V181 they are still not the main focus of the presentation. This is definitely not what I’d call a bright amp. Because of this, the V200 is probably a little more forgiving than something like a Meier Concerto or HeadAmp GS-1.* *But I don’t find that there is any detail missing*: transients are fast and clean, and there is enough air and sparkle up top to make things like cymbals or triangles sound startlingly real. The only limitation is that I probably wouldn’t pair the V200 (or V181 for that matter) with a really dark source… my Sigtone Shek NOS DAC is just about at the limit as far as being too dark for my tastes when paired with the V200, and I know some other NOS or tube designs go even further in that direction. Aside from that the V200 paired well with every CD player or DAC that I tried, and even sounded damn good straight from the analog outputs of a stock Squeezebox Touch. I suspect this is because the high frequencies are where you most easily spot digital harshness, and the V200 is somewhat more forgiving there."
   
Maybe it is for a reason that V200 is considered a good choice for the HD800. You dont always have to sacrifice detail. Same goes for the Lehmann and M-Stage I guess they all add that extra bit of smoothness to the Highs when in comes to the HD800.


----------



## palmfish

That is my opinion of the V200 as well. Compared to the DAC1, it trades a bit of articulation for a slightly smoother treble. It takes careful listening to tell the difference though...


----------



## zzffnn

Beta22, being a relatively smooth solid state amp, probably pairs well with HD800s?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





zzffnn said:


> Beta22, being a relatively smooth solid state amp, probably pairs well with HD800s?


 
   
  I agree, It does.  It's my second favorite amp with the HD800s.   Overall I prefer the GS-X mk2 over it.


----------



## FlySweep

I've had the G109 for about three months.. expecting the V200 today (and a V800 relatively soon).  Will provide some comparisons with the HD800.


----------



## Spakka

zigy626 said:


> I think I have come to the conclusion after reading many thread on the best Amp for the HD800. Many of the US residents have suggested Woo Audio WA22 which at $1900 is way off my budget add the custom duties for UK and we are looking at almost £1700 (WOW). Have read conflicting reports regarding the Lehmann Audio Black Cube some say its good for the HD800 while other disagree
> 
> Here is good review stating that Lehmann Audio has very good synergy with HD800's
> 
> ...






You are in the UK, so why not go for an Icon Audio HP8 MkII?
It's a great pairing for the HD800.


----------



## zigy626

Icon Audio HP8 is a very strong contender, but for the time being I think I will stick to my current setup and just enjoy the music. Maybe in a couple of months I will get this beautiful tube amp. Also interested in seeing some direct comparison between the HP8 and V200 when it comes to the HD800. One thing I have learned in this hobby is that you need to take your time and read up what people on Head-fi are saying. This place is like a goldmine just need to look in the right place.


----------



## TT600R (Dec 25, 2021)

!


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





zzffnn said:


> Beta22, being a relatively smooth solid state amp, probably pairs well with HD800s?


 
   
  The HD800 is as bright as what is connected to it.  Personally I didn't like the B22 and HD800 pairing.  Too flat, distant and pushed out.  Basically your stereotypical HD800 dislike list


----------



## Girls Generation

It depends on what context "warm" is being used with, but making the mids a bit thicker without sacrificing treble would count as warm, but it wouldn't really lose detail would it? Also, I'm sure many wouldn't mind the treble on the HD800s a bit more smoothed out than stock, unless you have a wet sounding tube amp. Just my opinion.


----------



## Operakid

With my very neutral tube speaker amp and resistive network, playing very neutral preamp and phono stages, with a high def turntable and cartridge, they are quite neutral, listenable (to this sensitive eared listener), with deep, powerful, ample bass.  The HD800 can retain high detail and still be listenable.  The key is not "warm" components in front. "Warm" means distortion, so detail is covered.  The key is very low distortion components in front.  The headphone amps I tried were very hard to listen to with HD800, not due to treble emphasis of the amps, but distortion of the headphone amps.  Very name brands, but high distortion, which I confirmed by running them through my 100+db efficient main speaker system,where they sounded harsh through those too.  The HD800 demand low distortion components in front of them.  
   
  I tried another speaker amp this week and again they sounded grain-free and extremely detailed.  But that was also a very high pedigree amp.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





operakid said:


> With my very neutral tube speaker amp and resistive network, playing very neutral preamp and phono stages, with a high def turntable and cartridge, they are quite neutral, listenable (to this sensitive eared listener), with deep, powerful, ample bass.  The HD800 can retain high detail and still be listenable.  The key is not "warm" components in front. "Warm" means distortion, so detail is covered.  The key is very low distortion components in front.  The headphone amps I tried were very hard to listen to with HD800, not due to treble emphasis of the amps, but distortion of the headphone amps.  Very name brands, but high distortion, which I confirmed by running them through my 100+db efficient main speaker system,where they sounded harsh through those too.  The HD800 demand low distortion components in front of them.
> 
> I tried another speaker amp this week and again they sounded grain-free and extremely detailed.  But that was also a very high pedigree amp.


 
  My Decware is wonderful with the HD800's. These cans love a high quality OTL....


----------



## palmfish

Im finding its very recording dependent. 
   
  I have a lot of very well recorded/mastered jazz and classical, and the HD800 / DAC1 simply disappears from my awareness. On the other hand, on some of my older 80's vintage RB CDs (which are notoriously bright and bass shy), the truth hurts.
   
  With my best recordings, any more warmth would intrude on the mids and thicken the sound too much. But I guess with all things audio, there are different tastes. With loudspeakers it was always the British vs. US sound, and I've always been a JBL kind of guy. 
   
  There's no doubt in my mind that my combo is a transparent "truth teller" for better or worse. For my less than ideal recordings, I still have a receiver with tone comtrols to fix the flaws. 
   
  And my D7000s are on a truck to their new owner in Virginia...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

zigy626 said:


> I think I have come to the conclusion after reading many thread on the best Amp for the HD800. Many of the US residents have suggested Woo Audio WA22 which at $1900 is way off my budget add the custom duties for UK and we are looking at almost £1700 (WOW). Have read conflicting reports regarding the Lehmann Audio Black Cube some say its good for the HD800 while other disagree
> Here is good review stating that Lehmann Audio has very good synergy with HD800's
> http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/hi-fi-plus-lehmann-black-cube-linear-usb-headphone-amplifierdac/


 


anetode said:


> Little league or special olympics?


 


solude said:


> Also the WA22 is a really bad choice for value.


 

   
   
  i thought the WA22 was one of the better amps for the HD 800 (i can see it being a little pricy though). i'm still looking at it as an upgrade to my setup. (along with the DNA Stratus ive been looking at)
   
  umm as for the BCL/HD 800s and the PS1000 comment, ive heard HD 800 and PS1000 out of it side by side. i much preferred the PS1000, though i can imagine it being bright or harsh with less than perfect recordings. the PS1000 just sounded more musical and engaging, the HD 800 was extremely boring and bland in comparison, i didnt feel connected to the music, thats the best way to describe it.
   
   
  after much tube rolling with WA6-SE and WA2, the HD 800 sounds much much better than the time i heard it out of the BCL, its a completely different headphone.  so i really don't think its good with the HD 800s, especially when the HD 800s should be superior to the PS1000s. maybe its partly because the BCL is kinda overpriced and the HD 800s needs a much better amp to sound its best whereas the PS1000 needs minimal amping, so it sounded great. also the BCL kinda ran out of power for the HD 800 in the end, not a very powerful amp.
   
   



longbowbbs said:


> My Decware is wonderful with the HD800's. These cans love a high quality OTL....


----------



## Shahrose

Quote: 





solude said:


> The HD800 is as bright as what is connected to it.  Personally I didn't like the B22 and HD800 pairing.  Too flat, distant and pushed out.  Basically your stereotypical HD800 dislike list


 
   
  This is one of those things I've easily tweaked with cables. My Beta doesn't sound that way at all, except yes it is more distant sounding than say a Dynalo/hi but not to a fault.


----------



## Girls Generation

Oh god... Not going to be surprised if the posts following mine will be about cables. Let's not awake the Currawong guys.
  Quote: 





shahrose said:


> This is one of those things I've easily tweaked with cables. My Beta doesn't sound that way at all, except yes it is more distant sounding than say a Dynalo/hi but not to a fault.


----------



## wink

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *jonnydeal*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The PS1000 is a great headphone, but doesn't match the HD800.


----------



## YoengJyh

Can try the EarMax Pro Silver Edition.. is a good OTL tube amp too.
   
  By the way, does anyone try the Parasound Zdac?


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





shahrose said:


> My Beta doesn't sound that way at all, except yes it is more distant sounding than say a Dynalo/hi but not to a fault.


 
   
  In a game of inches... it's a fault.  The same money will buy the better pairing, so why bother with a B22?


----------



## Solude

Oh and not saying the WA22 is a bad amp or not an upgrade over the other Woo amps just that for the $2400(tubes on this beast aren't cheap) you can do much better, ie poor value.  For example the B22 is a direct drop in replacement to the WA22 and you can buy those used for $800.  Still wouldn't get that per say for the HD800 just drawing an example.


----------



## Solude

And the PS1000 isn't just kind of bad, it's terribad.  Let's just forget Grado still makes headphones, ya?


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





solude said:


> And the PS1000 isn't just kind of bad, it's terribad.  Let's just forget Grado still makes headphones, ya?


 

 My understanding, is that the people  bored by the hd800 accuracy would love the grados.
  I  don't think it's the "audiophile dream" of everyone, of getting the most "accurate" sound.
  And I  find funny that people get a "distortion free", or low THD headphone such like the hd800, only to re-introduce back on your chain distortions with your source, using stuff like tubes.


----------



## Solude

Lots of choices for flavour headphones without going completely off your rocker and getting a high priced Grato err Grado.  Beyer 990 or Senn 650 or AT anything are all less expensive, more comfortable and just as flavoured.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





solude said:


> And the PS1000 isn't just kind of bad, it's terribad.  Let's just forget Grado still makes headphones, ya?


 
   
  I hope you're joking. As long as Grado interests people enough to buy their products, it's great and correct they do make them.


----------



## Solude

Not a joke.  Grado hasn't been competitive since around 2004.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





solude said:


> Not a joke.  Grado hasn't been competitive since around 2004.


 
   
  Competitive in terms of what? Remember that this hobby is an extremely subjective business... It's as much subjective as any objectivist here on head-fi is being highly criticised for even trying to be objective. ,-)
   
  So I hope you realise that your view on Grado is nearly 100% subjective and therefore =/= the ultimate truth. My opinion is no less subjective, of course (not a Grado fan).


----------



## Solude

My opinion of Grado is objective.  They measure like garbage, they aren't well constructed, they aren't comfortable and they cost a lot more than their competitors.  Subjectively you may like their flawed response, but objectively they're junk.  Their $80 model is ok though.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





solude said:


> My opinion of Grado is objective.  They measure like garbage, they aren't well constructed, they aren't comfortable and they cost a lot more than their competitors.  Subjectively you may like their flawed response, but objectively they're junk.  Their $80 model is ok though.


 
  Off course they "measure like garbage" , but I  still imagine people "subjectively" like them.
 Anyway the "objective" argument , is only used when you find it's convenient.
  Lot of expensive source  (amp/dac) suggested on this thread , and no measurements, in the name of the sacro saint subjectivity.
  When it's grados, then the objective argument is getting back.
  I'm not sure if you are realizing the "double standard" used here to make any judgment.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Off course they "measure like garbage" , but I  still imagine people "subjectively" like them.
> Anyway the "objective" argument , is only used when you find it's convenient.
> Lot of expensive source  (amp/dac) suggested on this thread , and no measurements, in the name of the sacro saint subjectivity.
> When it's grados, then the objective argument is getting back.
> I'm not sure if you are realizing the "double standard" used here to make any judgment.


 
   
  This... Yes, this is head-fi.


----------



## Solude

All of my opinions are based on objective data and subjective experience.  But yes a lot of people like things that are objectively a poor choice.  For example I went back to the LCD-2 after owning the LCD-3 because subjectively it never sounded quite right and objectively it rings quite a bit.
   
  On the HD800 front though objectively I expected to like them... subjectively I really didn't enjoy it the first two times.  So subjectively I expected to be disappointed again this time out but now with my current gear they're subjectively awesome.
   
  What drives me nuts is pure objectivists or pure subjectivists.  Or worse objectivists who have exceptions making their objectivity more about justifying not spending money more than actual objectivity.  The spending multiples of funds on the transducer instead of the amp or source comes to mind.  Objectively there is no reason to believe transducers aren't bound by their measurements if you believe electronics or cables are.  Just saying


----------



## jkwanness

I'm now a proud owner of the HD800 after jumping from Beyer T1.. Really loving the HD800 now.. i find the treble just slightly exaggerated with some songs, but overall its acceptable, much better than the stock T1 (I have felt dampering mods on them). Overall am happy switching to the HD800.. the little improvements in sound is what got me.
   
  Am currently running it with Audio-GD NFB 3.32 and Meier Concerto. What do you guys think of my rig? i'm loving the sound so far


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





solude said:


> The spending multiples of funds on the transducer instead of the amp or source comes to mind.


 
  But the headphone is the weakest link in the audio chain, it's the biggest bottleneck,  that's why it still make sense.
  Just like the performance of a pc is hampered by the hard drive, and the purchase of an expensive ssd make sense.
  The source is not often a bottleneck, and now if you found source that let you better appreciate "subjectively"
  your hd800, I'd be curious about the more technical details/measurements of your source.
  The irony, is that it might be precisely because your source measure badly, that you'd appreciate better your hd800.


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> But the headphone is the weakest link in the audio chain, it's the biggest bottleneck,  that's why it still make sense.
> Just like the performance of a pc is hampered by the hard drive, and the purchase of an expensive ssd make sense.
> The source is not often a bottleneck, and now if you found source that let you better appreciate "subjectively"
> your hd800, I'd be curious about the more technical details/measurements of your source.
> The irony, is that it might be precisely because your source measure badly, that you'd appreciate better your hd800.


 
  I agree, If strictly limited to a certain budget, I'd much rather have an HD800 with say, an O2/ODAC than a K701 with $1000 amp/dac combo.  Obviously there is a lot of potential to be wrung out of the HD800 but with a lesser headphone, you can only max it out so much.  And you can always upgrade your source components down the road.


----------



## palmfish

Performance can be measured objectively, but perception will always be subjective.
   
  On paper my BMW doesn't have as much acceleration, cornering, or braking ability as a Toyota Corrolla, but subjectively it's a lot more fun to drive.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Performance can be measured objectively, but perception will always be subjective.
> 
> On paper my BMW doesn't have as much acceleration, cornering, or braking ability as a Toyota Corrolla, but subjectively it's a lot more fun to drive.


 
  Except that the "objectivist" would say that a transparent source would always sound same (provided that  it's able to drive the headphone).  If you notice a difference between two source, that are both able to drive the hd800 (no problem of impedance or whatever) , then you can say at least one of the two is not transparent. So that's where the comparison with cars stop : a transparent source can be defined by a set of specifications,  it's less obvious for a car.


----------



## zigy626

The best thing about the HD800 is that they are so comfortable to wear. Its easy to forget sometimes that you have headphones on. It makes it easy to imagine you are listening to some really expensive speakers. IMO LCD's will never be able to do that. Personally I feel that DAC's and Amps might come and go but when it comes to headphones I would keep the HD800 for a very long time.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





shahrose said:


> This is one of those things I've easily tweaked with cables. My Beta doesn't sound that way at all, except yes it is more distant sounding than say a Dynalo/hi but not to a fault.


 
   
  Mine don't either,  nor does my balanced M^3 with the ADA4627-1 op amps.  I prefer my Beta22 and M^3 over other soild state amps such as the BHA-1, Mjolnir, Burson 160D and a hole host of others.  It's just for me when the GS-X mk2 arrived is when the HD800s got better.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Yeah, I hate to say it, but the HD800's are _so_ good relative to the rest of the pack that it is almost boring to see so many of them at meets now. It's like a black hole sitting in the upper-middle of the headphone price continuum. Only the value headphones at one extreme and the super expensive 'stats on the other avoid its gravitational pull. Nearly everyone else eventually caves... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





ooooofalling....


----------



## drez

nick dangerous said:


> Yeah, I hate to say it, but the HD800's are _so_ good relative to the rest of the pack that it is almost boring to see so many at meets now. It's like a black hole sitting in the upper-middle of the headphone price continuum. Only the value headphones at one extreme and the super expensive 'stats on the other avoid its gravitational pull. Nearly everyone else eventually caves...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Depends on the criteria really, there are headphones that are more detailed or faster than the HD800but nothing can really touch them for focus, control, transparency and dynamics short of STAX in my limited experience...


----------



## toschek

I would still love to try out HE-6s one of these days, but the HD800 has removed all urgency from that desire.


----------



## Maxvla

drez said:


> Depends on the criteria really, *there are headphones that are more detailed or faster than the HD800*but nothing can really touch them for focus, control, transparency and dynamics short of STAX in my limited experience...



Which are?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Which are?


 
   
  x2


----------



## BournePerfect

shahrose said:


> x2




x3 +1

-Daniel


----------



## drez

maxvla said:


> Which are?




SA5000 sounded more detailed and seemed to extract more texture, but were less controlled. Also some BA iem's are faster. As an all round transparent headphone the HD800 is unmatched at the price point though.

009's though were a significant step up from the HD800 in terms of detail and tonal density. No way I can afford them though, not at the moment anyway.


----------



## palmfish

I dont believe that SS gear "burns in," but I swear my DAC1 sounds smoother and richer today - no more hint of brightness I detected yesterday.
   
  Im enjoying Ottmar Liebert as I type this and Ive never heard this album sound more rich, airy, articulate and natural. It was a long educational journey to the HD800, but I'm glad I finally arrived. Its the only headphone Ive ever heard that no frequency calls attention, bleeds over, or inflicts pain. Just smooth, natural, lifelike sound. My peeve has always been bass bloat that muddies up the mids. Even a trace of thickness and I cant hear anything else. 
   
  The HD800s just NAIL the bass-to-mid transition. I couldnt be more pleased.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote: 





drez said:


> *SA5000 sounded more detailed and seemed to extract more texture*, but were less controlled. Also some BA iem's are faster. As an all round transparent headphone the HD800 is unmatched at the price point though.
> 
> 009's though were a significant step up from the HD800 in terms of detail and tonal density. No way I can afford them though, not at the moment anyway.


 
   
  Friend, that one statement alone discredits the rest of your post. I owned both together for quite a while (with multiple cables). It's just not true.


----------



## Frank I

I am listening to Patricia Barber Modern Cool and listening to the track Company on the Taboo Mk111 with the hd800 and man oh man if anyone thinks the hd800 is bass light should listen to that track as It has real slam on the drums and the bass is very distinct with pin point focus in the soundstage with lots of air. Very special


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I am listening to Patricia Barber Modern Cool and listening to the track Company on the Taboo Mk111 with the hd800 and man oh man if anyone thinks the hd800 is bass light should listen to that track as It has real slam on the drums and the bass is very distinct with pin point focus in the soundstage with lots of air. Very special


 
  Great album Frank. I love her version of Fool on the Hill - its my favorite track on the album!


----------



## palmfish

BTW, I got to try my HD800 powered by a WA3 with Chatham 2399 power tube this morning. I admit it sounded very nice - very similar in mids and treble detail to my DAC1 only "wetter" if that makes sense. My Benchmark just sounded a little "dry" in comparison. Of course, the bass was a little bloated on the Woo, but I guess thats to be expected from an OTL amp.


----------



## YoengJyh

How you guys think about the Fostex TH900?
   
  Some HD800 fans claimed TH900 is better.


----------



## Maxvla

Way too much bass, not bad otherwise.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> BTW, I got to try my HD800 powered by a WA3 with Chatham 2399 power tube this morning. I admit it sounded very nice - very similar in mids and treble detail to my DAC1 only "wetter" if that makes sense. My Benchmark just sounded a little "dry" in comparison. Of course, the bass was a little bloated on the Woo, but I guess thats to be expected from an OTL amp.


 
  The csp2 has deep tight and very controlled bass and thats an OTL so not all tube otl have loose bass. I have not heard the WA3 so not sure how it sounds but the taboo MK111 is also great with bass. Man this albums really show cases whats the quality of bass. Mark Arnopol bass playing is exceptional. I am hearing brilliant highs as well very extended and bas has so much texture and sounds very real.  Post Martum Blues really showcase the hd800 and the Taboo MK 111.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I am listening to Patricia Barber Modern Cool and listening to the track* Company* on the Taboo Mk111 with the hd800 and man oh man if anyone thinks the hd800 is bass light should listen to that track as It has real slam on the drums and the bass is very distinct with pin point focus in the soundstage with lots of air. Very special


 
   
   
  I love this track Frank....


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





yoengjyh said:


> How you guys think about the Fostex TH900?
> 
> Some HD800 fans claimed TH900 is better.


 
   
  Pretty good headphone the TH-900.  I like the HD800s better though..


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I love this track Frank....


 
  Scary real on this setup. i also have some very nice tubes in the amp now using Amperex EL84 with a Phillips 5R4GYS and a Siemens ECC88 . The Phillips rectifier is so nice never seen a rectifier built like it is. I ordered another pair today from upscale audio before they are all gone


----------



## palmfish

OK, Im listening to Modern Cool now too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  the opening bass in Touch of Trash is impressive! I havent heard this album yet with the HD800. My D7000 was just too much bass and midrange bloat.
   
  Man Ive got to try that Taboo - because this sounds amazing out of my Benchmark and I cant imagine improving on it. That Decware must be something special!
   
  Edit: OK, going from memory (unreliable), I think i get this tube thing. There is a slight dryness to the Benchmark that I can imagine being more "slippery/glossy" with something like the Taboo. I havent decided which i prefer, but i lean towards the DAC1 just because my brain tells me its more "accurate" - whatever that means


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> OK, Im listening to Modern Cool now too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I liked it enough to sell my csp2. My full review will be coming in the next couple weeks hopefully have it done by 4/15.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I liked it enough to sell my csp2. My full review will be coming in the next couple weeks hopefully have it done by 4/15.


 
  I look forward to it.


----------



## YoengJyh

So, consider an upgrade from HD800 to TH900?


----------



## Nick Dangerous

frank i said:


> i also have some very nice tubes in the amp now using Amperex EL84 with a Phillips 5R4GYS and a Siemens ECC88 . The Phillips rectifier is so nice never seen a rectifier built like it is. I ordered another pair today from upscale audio before they are all gone




I tried the Philips 5R4GYS rectifier in my CSP but it was one of my least favorites. Very detailed, but too bass-shy and sterile.

RCA 5Y3GT and EML 5U4G meshplate have been my favorites thus far (surpassing Tung-Sol 5U4G and 5Y3GT, Sylvania 5U4G and 5Y3GT, RCA 5R4GY and 5U4G, and yes even the lush Brimar 5R4GY).

If you like the Philips, have you tried the USAF-596? It is similar in regards to detail retrieval, but with better bass and midrange IMHO.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Pretty good headphone the TH-900.  I like the HD800s better though..


 
   
  x2. The TH900 is the only sealed headphone I owned/heard that wasn't embarrassed by the best open flagships of today. I like it...definitely my favourite closed offering. But, it's still easily behind the HD800 (overall).


----------



## BournePerfect

yoengjyh said:


> So, consider an upgrade from HD800 to TH900?




No, just no. Especially if you're looking for neutrality. Sold my TH900 to rebuy another HD800-and cost wasn't the issue.

-Daniel


----------



## YoengJyh

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> No, just no. Especially if you're looking for neutrality. Sold my TH900 to rebuy another HD800-and cost wasn't the issue.
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  I see. I saw you were keen to have the TH900 and even sold your HD800 to fund it. But now, you get back the HD800. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No wonder... no wonder.


----------



## YoengJyh

double posts.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> BTW, I got to try my HD800 powered by a WA3 with Chatham 2399 power tube this morning. I admit it sounded very nice - very similar in mids and treble detail to my DAC1 only "wetter" if that makes sense. My Benchmark just sounded a little "dry" in comparison. Of course, the bass was a little bloated on the Woo, but I guess thats to be expected from an OTL amp.


 
   
  try a 7236 tube (tung sol/sylvania), they're a little tighter than 2399/5998 if you're looking for less bass bloat.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  +1 on the 596....I am pleasantly surprised at the Valve Art 274B too.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





yoengjyh said:


> So, consider an upgrade from HD800 to TH900?


 
   
  No.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> I tried the Philips 5R4GYS rectifier in my CSP but it was one of my least favorites. Very detailed, but too bass-shy and sterile.
> 
> RCA 5Y3GT and EML 5U4G meshplate have been my favorites thus far (surpassing Tung-Sol 5U4G and 5Y3GT, Sylvania 5U4G and 5Y3GT, RCA 5R4GY and 5U4G, and yes even the lush Brimar 5R4GY).
> 
> If you like the Philips, have you tried the USAF-596? It is similar in regards to detail retrieval, but with better bass and midrange IMHO.


 
  I dont hear it as bass shy in the Taboo MK111 at all I am also using EL 84 Amperex O getters and  the Siemens EC88 in the driver spot. Great combo perhaps its the combination of tubes but it is extremely musical with great bass extension and crystal highs. I dont have a USAF-596 and am done with rectifiers as I have quite a few already. I am seeking out some more EL84 NOS for the Taboo namely Phillis and Tungstram  adn I am really liking  the hd800 on the MK11


----------



## drez

shahrose said:


> Friend, that one statement alone discredits the rest of your post. I owned both together for quite a while (with multiple cables). It's just not true.




I think you caught me out there, just had another listen and will have to correct my former opinion. SA5000 cant match the HD800 in resolution, it is warmer and gets muddled when music gets complex. My bad, I didn't compare carefully (SA5000 is on loan, only listened to it a few times as it physically doesn't fit my ears well...)


----------



## kazsud

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I am listening to Patricia Barber Modern Cool and listening to the track Company on the Taboo Mk111 with the hd800 and man oh man if anyone thinks the hd800 is bass light should listen to that track as It has real slam on the drums and the bass is very distinct with pin point focus in the soundstage with lots of air. Very special


 
  I got my blue dragon v3 cable yesterday and I'm hearing more bass now. 
   
  Radiohead
  Zero7
  Bonobo (new album drops Sunday)
  Jazzanova
  The Roots 
  All have good bass, detail and spacious


----------



## BournePerfect

yoengjyh said:


> I see. I saw you were keen to have the TH900 and even sold your HD800 to fund it. But now, you get back the HD800.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Translation?? Either way the HD 800 is objectively better, and to my ears the Senn beat it in pretty much every category. Guess I'm not a huge fan of colored headphones-except the Pro 2900 which is amazing in it's price range.

-Daniel


----------



## zigy626

A question for HD800 owners that own summit-fi amp/dac. I have seen that many people  are willing to spent really a lot of money on Amplifiers and DAC's to go along with the HD800's.  Sometimes upwards of $5000. We are after all talking about Headphones here. How good can it get really? Personally I have no experience with summit-fi amps that go along with HD800, so can someone enlighten me with there experience with summit-fi amp/dac pairing with HD800. What can one expect when you pair a HD800 with something like a woo audio WA5 amp that costs $3000?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> A question for HD800 owners that own summit-fi amp/dac. I have seen that many people  are willing to spent really a lot of money on Amplifiers and DAC's to go along with the HD800's.  Sometimes upwards of $5000. We are after all talking about Headphones here. How good can it get really? Personally I have no experience with summit-fi amps that go along with HD800, so can someone enlighten me with there experience with summit-fi amp/dac pairing with HD800. What can one expect when you pair a HD800 with something like a woo audio WA5 amp that costs $3000?


 
  Great question...tough to answer. Your own experience will be a big part of your personal value proposition. The HD800's will reflect the quality of the recording and the full chain delivering the music to you. So, should there be a weak link or bottleneck, the HD800's will show the shortfall. However, at a certain point, I am not sure I can discern major improvements and I have to say I would rather just listen to the music than spend my day dissecting a recording.
   
  For me, switching gear is now about the hobby and trying something new. 
   
  Good luck with your journey!  Sorry about your wallet.....


----------



## cired

Quote: 





> A question for HD800 owners that own summit-fi amp/dac. I have seen that many people  are willing to spent really a lot of money on Amplifiers and DAC's to go along with the HD800's.  Sometimes upwards of $5000. We are after all talking about Headphones here. How good can it get really? Personally I have no experience with summit-fi amps that go along with HD800, so can someone enlighten me with there experience with summit-fi amp/dac pairing with HD800. What can one expect when you pair a HD800 with something like a woo audio WA5 amp that costs $3000?


 
   
  Personally I didn't really care for the HD800 with the mid-fi stuff that I have owned and sold them. The HD800 with my current setup now are my personal favorites and brought them to a whole new level and listening experience.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





cired said:


> Personally I didn't really care for the HD800 with the mid-fi stuff that I have owned and sold them. The HD800 with my current setup now are my personal favorites and brought them to a whole new level and listening experience.


 

 I looked at the description of the "PS Audio PerfectWave Dac MKII" you use according to your signature :
  "The MKII features our exclusive Digital Lens technology built right inside.  The Digital Lens takes any digital audio signal and regenerates a new and jitter free version to listen to."
   
  Oh, well .... Fascinating.


----------



## dallan

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> A question for HD800 owners that own summit-fi amp/dac. I have seen that many people  are willing to spent really a lot of money on Amplifiers and DAC's to go along with the HD800's.  Sometimes upwards of $5000.


 
   
  Thank God my dac/amp combo stayed below $5000. ........only $4800. in the end 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Of course that is not including a thousand dollar usb converter and around seven or eight hundred dollar re-cable.  Lets not get into the power cords or tubes for rolling........OMG what have i done!


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Great question...tough to answer. Your own experience will be a big part of your personal value proposition. The HD800's will reflect the quality of the recording and the full chain delivering the music to you. So, should there be a weak link or bottleneck, the HD800's will show the shortfall. However, at a certain point, I am not sure I can discern major improvements and I have to say I would rather just listen to the music than spend my day dissecting a recording.
> 
> For me, switching gear is now about the hobby and trying something new.
> 
> Good luck with your journey!  Sorry about your wallet.....


 
  Thanks. Will try to save my wallet from further damage by trying these cans on gear i find at hi-fi meets. Hopefully that will give me some idea about the summit-fi amps/dacs. But its good to know that HD800 can scale up to a point where people feel it can be justified to spend additional $3000-$5000 on an amp. Personally if I would spend $5000 I would make sure its an excellent integrated amp with an awesome headphone amp.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> A question for HD800 owners that own summit-fi amp/dac. I have seen that many people  are willing to spent really a lot of money on Amplifiers and DAC's to go along with the HD800's.  Sometimes upwards of $5000. We are after all talking about Headphones here. How good can it get really? Personally I have no experience with summit-fi amps that go along with HD800, so can someone enlighten me with there experience with summit-fi amp/dac pairing with HD800. What can one expect when you pair a HD800 with something like a woo audio WA5 amp that costs $3000?


 
  The implication here is that headphone listening is not as worthy of better upstream equipment as speaker listening. (At least that is how I read the skeptical nature of the question, but of course it is understandable, as anyone outside the community
  would think the cost or value of audiophile equipment is basically insane, but would certainly relate to the cost of a $75,000 car.)
   
  Specifically, the HD800 is capable of achieving natural tonality of all musical objects (including vocals) that sinks deep into the pleasure centers of your brain, and does the same with spatial information allowing you to perceive the 
  a believable size, shape, and placement of each of these objects, adding to the enjoyment (for me at least).
  And the better input you feed it, the closer to this holy grail you come. Conversely, bad distortion in the digital or amplification realm will be fatiguing, as in piercing highs, clipped bass, or digital artifice.
   
  Headphones probably need more, not less, help than speakers because of the intimate relationship you have with a transducer so close to your ear.
   
  I hear the goodness and all the characteristics of my high end tube amps and high end CD player and cables in all their glory with the HD800s, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
  I love these phones, and if you love music and high end sound, the cost of upstream equipment is worth whatever you can reasonably afford.
   
  (And of course there will be a lot of arguments about the placebo affect, how I have have spent too much time drinking the Kool-aid etc., but I know what I hear.)


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





dallan said:


> Thank God my dac/amp combo stayed below $5000. ........only $4800. in the end
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Personally I have spent about $3500 getting to a point where I am now. Never thought in my life I would spend that kind of money on a headphone setup. But I really do enjoy music more from headphones than I would ever from a speaker system. Plus I love the portable factor of the whole thing so appealing.
   
  Not a lot of choice in UK when it comes to summit-fi headphone amps (except maybe for the SPL Phonitor that is around $1700). Easy to get german brands but I would not class a Lehmann BCL as summit-fi.


----------



## cired

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> The implication here is that headphone listening is not as worthy of better upstream equipment as speaker listening. (At least that is how I read the skeptical nature of the question, but of course it is understandable, as anyone outside the community
> would think the cost or value of audiophile equipment is basically insane, but would certainly relate to the cost of a $75,000 car.)
> 
> Specifically, the HD800 is capable of achieving natural tonality of all musical objects (including vocals) that sinks deep into the pleasure centers of your brain, and does the same with spatial information allowing you to perceive the
> ...


 
   
  Very nice. Well said.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> The implication here is that headphone listening is not as worthy of better upstream equipment as speaker listening. (At least that is how I read the skeptical nature of the question, but of course it is understandable, as anyone outside the community
> would think the cost or value of audiophile equipment is basically insane, but would certainly relate to the cost of a $75,000 car.)
> 
> Specifically, the HD800 is capable of achieving natural tonality of all musical objects (including vocals) that sinks deep into the pleasure centers of your brain, and does the same with spatial information allowing you to perceive the
> ...


 
  Having not had any experience with summit-fi amps/dacs I hope you can understand my skepticism. But I am skeptical in a good way just trying to gauge how good can it really get. For me its pretty good right now. Thanks for your detailed answer.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Having not had any experience with summit-fi amps/dacs I hope you can understand my skepticism. But I am skeptical in a good way just trying to gauge how good can it really get. For me its pretty good right now. Thanks for your detailed answer.


 
  Sure, thanks for the kind words and best of luck sir. And thanks to Cired above also. I appreciate it.


----------



## Maxvla

To actually answer the question, the major differences between mid-fi and high end amps tend to be mostly refinement. Things like layering, micro-dynamics, and texture are improved from just good to 'is this real?'. Things the mid-fi gear does well like clarity, impact, control, macro-dynamics are bumped up that last notch. The first group I mentioned really helps you make the transition from a good music experience to feeling like you are there in person. They are often overlooked in quick auditions unless you know exactly what you are listening for. The second group is what most people assume are the main differences between mid-fi and high end, and while those are important and do improve, it's the overlooked aspects that steal the show.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> To actually answer the question, the major differences between mid-fi and high end amps tend to be mostly refinement. Things like layering, micro-dynamics, and texture are improved from just good to 'is this real?'. Things the mid-fi gear does well like clarity, impact, control, macro-dynamics are bumped up that last notch. The first group I mentioned really helps you make the transition from a good music experience to feeling like you are there in person. They are often overlooked in quick auditions unless you know exactly what you are listening for. The second group is what most people assume are the main differences between mid-fi and high end, and while those are important and do improve, it's the overlooked aspects that steal the show.


 
  You said it! A hall of fame comment here I think.


----------



## dallan

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Personally I have spent about $3500 getting to a point where I am now. Never thought in my life I would spend that kind of money on a headphone setup. But I really do enjoy music more from headphones than I would ever from a speaker system. Plus I love the portable factor of the whole thing so appealing.
> 
> Not a lot of choice in UK when it comes to summit-fi headphone amps (except maybe for the SPL Phonitor that is around $1700). Easy to get german brands but I would not class a Lehmann BCL as summit-fi.


 
  I've never heard the Lehmann BLC so I wouldn't know.  I still use possibly what would be considered a midfi amp at times though esp with lower inpedance headphones and it is German, the violectric v200.  I even plug the hd800 into it when I am lazy or don't want to fire up the tube amp.  It still sound good to me.


----------



## longbowbbs

This is where the struggle to define what is "Summit Fi" gear? Price is perhaps a starting point or a consideration but some of the newer gear is really bringing the performance without having to spend $5000.


----------



## Maxvla

After my positive experience with the Matrix X-Sabre and having known about the M-Stage being a popular inexpensive amp for HD800s, I began to recommend it to a few people in this thread and elsewhere who were trying to build a amp/DAC combo for HD800s for $1000 or less. I recommended the $600 Concero and the $260 M-Stage. A week or so later I decided to get one for myself so that I wasn't just recommending blindly. I got it Thursday and got it plugged in and playing on Friday and it's been going nearly 24 hours a day since then, only taking breaks when I was comparing with the BHA-1. I got the M-Stage with USB DAC for an extra $30 because why the hell not, and initially listened through the built in DAC.

At first I was pleasantly surprised at the performance, it wasn't super detailed, but it seemed clean with a wide though thin sound. I honestly didn't expect much from this DAC since it was so cheap, and after listening for a while longer I began encountering some showstopping harshness on some tracks. I would say this DAC could be a decent stand in DAC if you had to be without, but you'd want to keep the volume below live. The sound was dynamic and punchy, but not overly clear or well textured. The harshness became regular as I began to recognize it everywhere, but most of the time it was ignored easily enough.

Having given a few hours to the onboard DAC, I was ready to move up to a real DAC and hooked up the X-Sabre to the M-Stage and gave it a listen. The difference was as expected given the $1070 price difference in the DACs, but I was also relieved to know most of the negative bits about the M-Stage was from the DAC, and not the amp. With the X-Sabre the M-Stage opened right up with very good clarity and without any of the previous harshness. After listening for a few hours and noting that the performance was really special, I knew the next step was to compare to the BHA-1. I was reasonably sure before making the switch that I knew what I was going to hear in the difference, but after having listened to the built in DAC, the X-Sabre -> M-Stage combo was worryingly good.

With the X-Sabre and BHA-1 in balanced mode and balanced connection to the HD800s, I listened to a dozen or so specific tracks I thought would highlight differences easiest between the M-Stage and BHA-1. Despite the balanced connection and the price difference, the performance was really not as much better as one might expect. I was right, though, in what I did find. As I described in my post above about mid-fi vs high end, the main aspects people focus on were better, but not a lot better. The big strides for the BHA-1 were in the refinement areas, textures, layering and the sort. There is certainly a distinct difference in performance between these 2 amps, but in the core aspects, it is remarkably close.

I am glad to say my faith in the reviews of the M-Stage/HD800 combo was not unfounded. I will certainly recommend this combo to anyone wanting to step into high end with the headphone first. It is the most important part, by far, but not spending a truckload on the amp right away takes careful consideration. The M-Stage is a great stepping stone for the HD800s, such that you could even make a DAC upgrade before worrying about the amp. Listening to the X-Sabre -> M-Stage -> HD800, is truly a high end experience, though just barely. There is plenty of room to improve, but it is mostly in the refinement areas that take good to magical.


----------



## LugBug1

Enjoyed reading that Maxvla. Yeah I've been pleasantly surprised with the M-stage, it doesn't seem to be lacking anything for me. I can't compare it to any high- enders as yet though. I'm even thinking about getting another one for my living room rig instead of my Audio gd.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> After my positive experience with the Matrix X-Sabre and having known about the M-Stage being a popular inexpensive amp for HD800s, I began to recommend it to a few people in this thread and elsewhere who were trying to build a amp/DAC combo for HD800s for $1000 or less. I recommended the $600 Concero and the $260 M-Stage. A week or so later I decided to get one for myself so that I wasn't just recommending blindly. I got it Thursday and got it plugged in and playing on Friday and it's been going nearly 24 hours a day since then, only taking breaks when I was comparing with the BHA-1. I got the M-Stage with USB DAC for an extra $30 because why the hell not, and initially listened through the built in DAC.
> 
> At first I was pleasantly surprised at the performance, it wasn't super detailed, but it seemed clean with a wide though thin sound. I honestly didn't expect much from this DAC since it was so cheap, and after listening for a while longer I began encountering some showstopping harshness on some tracks. I would say this DAC could be a decent stand in DAC if you had to be without, but you'd want to keep the volume below live. The sound was dynamic and punchy, but not overly clear or well textured. The harshness became regular as I began to recognize it everywhere, but most of the time it was ignored easily enough.
> 
> ...


 
  +1 Excellent read. With some real world examples. An excellent DAC seems to be the key i guess.


----------



## toschek

I just picked up my new amp today, HD800s sound so much better now than they did with the Schiit Lyr. So much improvement I don't even know where to start. I keep thinking it can't get any better and then I hear new details, instruments I never heard before and even a singer's breath. 

I can only imagine what this sounds like with a proper DAC, but the Bifrost isn't half bad. I can't imagine ever needing a new amp either, and I mean ever.


----------



## kazsud

Quote: 





toschek said:


> I just picked up my new amp today, HD800s sound so much better now than they did with the Schiit Lyr. So much improvement I don't even know where to start. I keep thinking it can't get any better and then I hear new details, instruments I never heard before and even a singer's breath.
> 
> I can only imagine what this sounds like with a proper DAC, but the Bifrost isn't half bad. I can't imagine ever needing a new amp either, and I mean ever.


 
  What amp did you get?


----------



## Solude

Going to take a wild guess and say Cary SLI 80 Signature based on the sig


----------



## wink

Quote:Toschek posted:


> I can't imagine ever needing a new amp either, and I mean ever.


 
  That's just your wallet talking... Ignore it. *  Ignore it, I say*.
   
*HEADPHONE AMPS / PRE-AMPS*

*[size=x-small]GS-1 Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp[/size]*

    [size=xx-small]Click for Detailed Information[/size]
 [size=x-small]If there was one word to describe the GS-1, it would be: versatile.  Two inputs, loop out, gain switch, pre-amp functionality, and the ability to drive two phones at once.  Available with an Alps Blue volume control or optional DACT stepped attenuator.[/size] 









*[size=x-small]GS-X Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp[/size]*

    [size=xx-small]Click for Detailed Information[/size]
 [size=x-small]The GS-X is out top level amplifier for headphones and pre-amp use.  It will also power balanced headphones.  It's a true dual mono amplifier with dual power supplies in a separate enclosure and offers many features not found in the GS-1.[/size]


----------



## extrabigmehdi

All your amp examples are still cheap compared to the "EAR 509 Power Amps"  ( that was stolen  to a popular seller , according to front page news).
  I guess the top bar is fixed at 15000$ for the source, unless I missed more hefty examples ?


----------



## Kyle 491

Just wanted to chime in agreement with the m-stage > HD800 combo. I've enjoyed this combo for almost a year now and have no real desire to upgrade. I use both the audiolab m-dac and a xonar essence stx with 3 LME 49720 HA opamps swapped in as dacs and enjoy them both greatly. The m-dac is a tad more refined in the treble and more detailed, but is still capable of sounding very harsh depending on the song. What makes the most difference is changing the tonal balance using eq, removing the harshness in the 4-8k region in many songs. The great thing about the m-stage is that it throws a huge soundstage and sounds very dynamic, the extreme contrasts in bass depth and soaring, limitless treble make music sound very exciting. These are the two qualities most valuable to me for the Hd800, hence no real desire to change given what was achieved for the price.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





wink said:


> That's just your wallet talking... Ignore it. *  Ignore it, I say*.
> 
> *HEADPHONE AMPS / PRE-AMPS*
> 
> ...


 
   
  My wallet will bite me if I even try to open it right now, and my wife ... let's just say when she got through with me, John Wayne Bobbit would look like a sweepstakes winner.


----------



## TT600R

Lol,
  I just had to pick the right moment to tell the wife I just bought a new Dac.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Ah, the usual Head-Fi hyperbole. The Lyr isn't "no match" for V200, though I can't say for GS-X. Honestly, improvements are not as night and day as you make it out to be, thus your post is misleading and trapping people into spending more.
> 
> Asgard 2 was great with HD800, but Lyr sounds a bit more musical. V200 is good but not that much better.
> 
> Shrill may be due to harsh DAC, not JUST the amp. HD800 is inherently bright, so unless you have some warm wet sounding tubes and tube amps to deal with it, you're still going to get that bright treble...


 
   
  I believe products are normally priced according to performance and capability. Production cost is a factor, but if a product cand be  produced on the cheap that performs very well, most of time it will be priced to match the arena it is meant to compete in. This is pretty much manufacturing law, doubly so for high end products... like audio.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> I found the HD800 terrid with the O2/ODAC. Again, differences in expecations.
> That you need a tube amp for the HD800 is just cliche given by people who've dismissed the HD800s after a quick listen on SS.


 
   
  IMHO, I believe the HD800 simply reveals "crap". That's actually its job.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> I found the HD800 terrid with the O2/ODAC. Again, differences in expecations.
> That you need a tube amp for the HD800 is just cliche given by people who've dismissed the HD800s after a quick listen on SS.


 
   
   
  Quote:


nightflight said:


> IMHO, I believe the HD800 simply reveals "crap". That's actually its job.


 
   
  And tubes can be crappy and shrieky too.


----------



## zigy626

Listening to Bob Dylan 1995 MTV unplugged Album and it sounds amazing through my setup. Man these headphones bring so much joy back into music. I am totally addicted to music after getting the HD800. Buying CD's left and right bought like 30 in the past month. I wish the price of hi-res would not be so high otherwise I would be buying most of my music in that format. Another thing I love about the HD800 is the quality of the cable and the length.


----------



## akash neagi

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Listening to Bob Dylan 1995 MTV unplugged Album and it sounds amazing through my setup. Man these headphones bring so much joy back into music. I am totally addicted to music after getting the HD800. Buying CD's left and right bought like 30 in the past month. I wish the price of hi-res would not be so high otherwise I would be buying most of my music in that format. Another thing I love about the HD800 is the quality of the cable and the length.


 
  hey can you listen to the Eric Clapton and Eagles MTV unplugged on your HD800 for me????
 I am strongly considering getting them,
  HD800 I mean.....
  and these are two of my most listened albums......


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> , but if a product cand be  produced on the cheap that performs very well, most of time it will be priced to match the arena it is meant to compete in.


 
  What are you doing of the "snob effect " ?
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snob_effect
   
  I'm sure that if a cheap source was doing well, you would just blindly reject it, thanks to the "snob effect".
  Ear/ subjectivity are not reliable "tools", once you understand that, you understand how it's easy to fool "audiophile"
  with overpriced  gears.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> What are you doing of the "snob effect " ?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snob_effect
> 
> I'm sure that if a cheap source was doing well, you would just blindly reject it, thanks to the "snob effect".
> ...


 
   
  I always knew Grey Poupon tasted like crap.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> What are you doing of the "snob effect " ?


 
   
   
  Economics but same difference


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *palmfish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Dire Straits "Brothers in Arms"
> Steely Dan "Gaucho"
> ...


 
   
  Caravan Palace "Panic".  Fun fun fun.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> What are you doing of the "snob effect " ?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snob_effect
> 
> I'm sure that if a cheap source was doing well, you would just blindly reject it, thanks to the "snob effect".
> ...


 
   
  Its AudioPhool. Didn't ya know?


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





toschek said:


> My wallet will bite me if I even try to open it right now, and my wife ... let's just say when she got through with me, John Wayne Bobbit would look like a sweepstakes winner.


 

 I took my rig to work for a week and near the end of it my wife said "Hey, where's your amp thingy?" She has her money. I have mine. So long as we keep the bills paid and spend the requisite amount on each other, we try not to discuss it. I think she will freak ... ... _*when*_ ... ... I reveal the price.


----------



## LugBug1

Must say,
   
  I'm nearly a week in with my HD800's and I've have not yet experienced any fatigue or what I would call 'brightness'. Mine just aren't bright headphones... 
  I've owned bright headphones before. SR225, RS1, DT880, K702, D2000, All of these are what I would class as bright. Where the stigma has come from with these is lost on me. Detailed yes, extended (in relative terms) yes, but not harsh or fatiguing at all. And I'm using SS with mid-fi dacs. 
   
  If I could use a few adjectives to describe the sound; Warm, smooth, detailed, expansive, refined, airy, deep.
   
  Words I would not use to describe these but have read before; Clinical, harsh, thin, bright.
   
  Just saying..


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





s4s4s4 said:


> Hugh's Hope album is awesome. A must have in everyones collection.


 
   
  Hey is there an AudioPhool list of reference albums in the music section? I started a thread but it's not going anywhere.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Words I would not use to describe these but have read before; Clinical, harsh, thin, bright.


 
   
  I would certainly agree that none of my three rigs with the HD800 were clinical, harsh or bright.  But the first two were thin and distant.


----------



## zigy626

http://www.head-fi.org/t/555908/stax-sr-009-channel-imbalance-trouble-driver-problem/165
   
  Makes a nice read if you are thinking of upgrading from HD800 to Stax Sr 009.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





akash neagi said:


> hey can you listen to the Eric Clapton and Eagles MTV unplugged on your HD800 for me????
> I am strongly considering getting them,
> HD800 I mean.....
> and these are two of my most listened albums......


 
  FWIW, Eagles Hell Freezes Over is awesome (both sound & musicwise), especially the K2 Mastered CD (at Elusive Disc for $35).
  I also have Clapton/461 Ocean Blvd in SACD which is great also (and cheap).
  Paul McCartney Unplugged from 1991 is also one of my favorites (regular redbook CD).


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Must say,
> 
> I'm nearly a week in with my HD800's and I've have not yet experienced any fatigue or what I would call 'brightness'. Mine just aren't bright headphones...
> I've owned bright headphones before. SR225, RS1, DT880, K702, D2000, All of these are what I would class as bright. Where the stigma has come from with these is lost on me. Detailed yes, extended (in relative terms) yes, but not harsh or fatiguing at all. And I'm using SS with mid-fi dacs.
> ...


 
   
  Yup..  I agree.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> FWIW, Eagles Hell Freezes Over is awesome (both sound & musicwise), especially the K2 Mastered CD (at Elusive Disc for $35).
> I also have Clapton/461 Ocean Blvd in SACD which is great also (and cheap).
> Paul McCartney Unplugged from 1991 is also one of my favorites (regular redbook CD).


 
  Havent heard all the above CD's mentioned but HD800 are wonderful with Acoustics.


----------



## pila405

I've heard Sennheiser's CD sample of 'high quality' recording, and it was ridiculous. The dynamic range was quite narrow, and nothing fancy about the music or the recording quality.
   
  The best recording I've ever heard was not even SACD, it was Berlioz Symphony Fantastique performed by Sir John Eliot Gardiner and his Orchestre Revolutionnaire et Romantique.
  The Dynamic range is great, the recording is very clean and took place in a hall with great acoustics and reverberation, not even talking about the magnificent performance\interpretation.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Yup..  I agree.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Must say,
> 
> I'm nearly a week in with my HD800's and I've have not yet experienced any fatigue or what I would call 'brightness'. Mine just aren't bright headphones...
> I've owned bright headphones before. SR225, RS1, DT880, K702, D2000, All of these are what I would class as bright. Where the stigma has come from with these is lost on me. Detailed yes, extended (in relative terms) yes, but not harsh or fatiguing at all. And I'm using SS with mid-fi dacs.
> ...


 
  I also agree! I loved my HD800 from day 1 and then I listened to it via the DNA Sonett and Dliii from PS Audio. 
   
   
  Ohhh yeah, and DLiii is still a great DAC to use with these cans. I think it may be out of production but it def has a soft nicely laid out analogue presentation


----------



## Dubstep Girl

dL3!!!!


----------



## palmfish

pila405 said:


> I've heard Sennheiser's CD sample of 'high quality' recording, and it was ridiculous. The dynamic range was quite narrow, and nothing fancy about the music or the recording quality.
> 
> The best recording I've ever heard was not even SACD, it was Berlioz Symphony Fantastique performed by Sir John Eliot Gardiner and his Orchestre Revolutionnaire et Romantique.
> The Dynamic range is great, the recording is very clean and took place in a hall with great acoustics and reverberation, not even talking about the magnificent performance\interpretation.




I have loved Symphonie Fantastique since I was a boy. I currently have the Munch/BSO (RCA Living Stereo) and Maazel/Cleveland (Telarc) recordings. The RCA Hybrid SACD is a masterpiece. 

Thanks to your glowing recommendation, I just ordered the Gardiner recording. Thank you!


----------



## drez

lugbug1 said:


> Must say,
> 
> I'm nearly a week in with my HD800's and I've have not yet experienced any fatigue or what I would call 'brightness'. Mine just aren't bright headphones...
> I've owned bright headphones before. SR225, RS1, DT880, K702, D2000, All of these are what I would class as bright. Where the stigma has come from with these is lost on me. Detailed yes, extended (in relative terms) yes, but not harsh or fatiguing at all. And I'm using SS with mid-fi dacs.
> ...




To bring up the old cliche HD800 sounds like the rest of the audio chain. Only colouration is the 6k peak stock, and the midbass boost on the Anax mod. Still compared against the stax 009 the HD800 has its limits.


----------



## Maxvla

As the 009 has limits compared to the HD800. Nothing is perfect.


----------



## DairyProduce

Maxvla, what are the 009 limits when compared to the HD800?


----------



## Maxvla

Realistic soundstage and impact, mostly.


----------



## DairyProduce

I had the SR-007 Mk1 and it although it was excellent sounding, I did not feel any "impact" even when compared to my SRH840's. I've read that this may be solved in the SR-009, although I have the feeling that this is a inherent weakness of e-stats.


----------



## Maxvla

I also had the SR-007 and have heard the SR-009 many times. I'm completely satisfied with the HD800s as my only headphone. The only other headphone that might tempt me would be a re-issue of Jades that were better built, and even then it would be a complement to the HD800, not a replacement.


----------



## struggles

Quote: 





dairyproduce said:


> ...although I have the feeling that this is a inherent weakness of e-stats.


 
   
  From my limited experience with them, I would completely agree with this.


----------



## DairyProduce

I see you're selling your SR-009 struggles. Since you own a TOTL e-stat set up, I wouldn't call your experience limited..!

Any reason why you're selling them?


----------



## struggles

Quote: 





dairyproduce said:


> I see you're selling your SR-009 struggles. Since you own a TOTL e-stat set up, I wouldn't call your experience limited..!
> 
> Any reason why you're selling them?


 
   
  The impressions I have on the 009/007 comparison could not have been better stated than in Asr's mini review. Please note that I am only speaking from my amp experience, not top tier amps, and as you can see, not everyone agrees.
   
  I actually purchased the 009's after reading that review, had them for a month and tried the 007's. I feel much more connected to the 007's, in fact an 007/323 is what I would have started with if I could do it over again. For $2200 (used) it is a very nice setup imo...
   
  I am now on the prowl for some impact.
   
  Live and learn, my butt will heal eventually...


----------



## pila405

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I have loved Symphonie Fantastique since I was a boy. I currently have the Munch/BSO (RCA Living Stereo) and Maazel/Cleveland (Telarc) recordings. The RCA Hybrid SACD is a masterpiece.
> 
> Thanks to your glowing recommendation, I just ordered the Gardiner recording. Thank you!


 
  Your'e most welcome. I promise you won't regret. It was performed with period instruments.
  I've just ordered BSO\Munch's recording.


----------



## jsgraha

I'm a new HD800 owner, quite cool number as well #18888 
  Just listening for about 3 hours now, it seem very smooth and warm using jplay 5.1 from JK MK3 spdif to audio-gd ref7 to Burson Soloist.
  Still using stock cable, and I may have a question.
  How long the burn-in for this phone?
  I seem to enjoy it from the moment I put on though.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





jsgraha said:


> I'm a new HD800 owner, quite cool number as well #18888
> Just listening for about 3 hours now, it seem very smooth and warm using jplay 5.1 from JK MK3 spdif to audio-gd ref7 to Burson Soloist.
> Still using stock cable, and I may have a question.
> How long the burn-in for this phone?
> I seem to enjoy it from the moment I put on though.


 
  I would say you should give it around 100hrs. Although I have also heard that HD800 dont really need burn in as they go through that process at the factory. Personally I feel its more your ears adjusting to the HD800 sound that might be a bigger factor.


----------



## jsgraha

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> I would say you should give it around 100hrs. Although I have also heard that HD800 dont really need burn in as they go through that process at the factory. Personally I feel its more your ears adjusting to the HD800 sound that might be a bigger factor.


 
  Thanks zigy626. I hope that it will sound even better after 100hrs, as I already like the way it sound atm


----------



## palmfish

I've finally got my system set up the way I wanted!
   
  Here's a brief recap and update...
   
  The Sennheiser HD800 stole my heart (and wallet). But it sounds bad plugged into my Carver Receiver (very high output impedance headphone jack).
   
  So I picked up a Benchmark DAC1 and have been enjoying it immensely for the past couple of weeks. However, I miss the flexibility of my Carver (tone controls, lots of analog inputs for my other sources, and power to drive my bookshelf speakers). So I decided to try and find an affordable integrated amp that could replace my Carver but also drive my headphones very well.
   
  And as it happens, I made a pleasant discovery a couple of weeks ago when I had the chance to compare a Violectric V200 side-by-side with my home theater's Pioneer Elite SC-25 (140 WPC IcePower Class D AVR). With hi-rez source and HD800's, I couldn't tell them apart. Turns out my Pioneer has an outstanding very low output impedance headphone stage!
   
  I then went on a quest to find an affordable integrated amp with a good headphone stage to replace my Carver Receiver in my 2-channel system. Made the rounds at Magnolia and Definitive and only two integrateds had a low output impedance and were able to control the HD800's low freqs. They were the Peachtree Decco 65 and, you guessed it, a Pioneer (Elite VSX-42). I tried Marantz, Rotel, NAD, and Onkyo and all of them were high output impedance.
   
  Finally, I went to Best Buy to try the really cheap ones. Tested Denon, Yamaha, and Sony and all were high output impedance. Tried a Pioneer VSX-1022 and it was low impedance and sounded fantastic.
   
  Armed with this knowledge, I searched eBay and Craigslist for a Pioneer amp. I didn't want an AVR because the tone controls are buried in the menu system and also because in my analog 2-channel system most of the features are useless. I got excited about the Pioneer Elite A-20 but nobody has them in stock or has a date of availability. I finally found a beautiful Elite A-35R (the predecessor to the A20) for sale on Craigslist and picked it up for $100. It's a dual mono design with 45 WPC into 8 ohms. Actual tone control knobs on the front with a "direct" bypass button, and a MM phono preamp built in. This little beauty is a sweet sounding piece with all my analog sources, and it's a damn fine headphone amp - as good as any SS amp I've heard.
   
  So now for well mastered/mixed recordings, I have the Benchmark and for recordings of lesser quality and/or poorly mixed, I have the Pioneer. I can now finally listen to vinyl and SACD's with my HD800's.


----------



## rgs9200m

The HD800 and Stax 009 sound very different from each other and it is wrong to say one is objectively superior. 
  You or I may like one better, but if you read enough in the forums here you will see very strong fans of each.
  FWIW, I have both and love them both and can't decide. 
  The HD800 is somewhat more forgiving in my setups of more hyped-up recordings, and because I have many of these (on CD), the HD800 gets more headtime for me.


----------



## maarek99

I just bought the HD800. Sounds great. I plugged it into my Lake People G100. Makes the HD800 sing. Gonna keep the HD650 though, it's for those mellow out moments. The treble is slightly too high for my tastes but it sounds surprisingly great with lower volumes too. I think this ones a keeper. Sold the HE500 (too similar to the HD650 but worse) and the T1 (too piercing and mids just not good for me). But I can already hear that the HD800 will be a keeper. It surprisingly still has great mids and bottom end. I was waiting for something way more sharper than this.
   
  Will put some pics to the pic thread.


----------



## seeteeyou

Have you guys tried this Duchess Crown cable from Siltech yet?
   





   
  Currently available from Korea and they're asking roughly 865 bucks for that.


----------



## Maxvla

Needs a bigger, heavier plug. Until the cable causes the amp to tilt forwards how could it possibly sound good?


----------



## MorbidToaster

At least it's not their googleli tier interconnect price...
   
  Quote: 





seeteeyou said:


> Have you guys tried this Duchess Crown cable from Siltech yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jazzerdave

A 5ft Black Dragon v2 and a new set of ear pads were waiting for me when I got home from work today. I'm still loving these cans.


----------



## seeteeyou

.


----------



## toschek

That cable looks cool, I might buy it once my Blackbody (http://www.lessloss.com/blackbody-p-200.html) and left-handed skyhook get here. 

It's so great being a billionaire. I only live in a crappy 2br apartment because I want to get to know the common man.


----------



## kiwikaki

Quote: 





jsgraha said:


> I'm a new HD800 owner, quite cool number as well #18888
> Just listening for about 3 hours now, it seem very smooth and warm using jplay 5.1 from JK MK3 spdif to audio-gd ref7 to Burson Soloist.
> Still using stock cable, and I may have a question.
> How long the burn-in for this phone?
> I seem to enjoy it from the moment I put on though.


 
  hello, up to now with what your amp is sounding better the HD800? woo audio or burson?


----------



## jsgraha

Quote: 





kiwikaki said:


> hello, up to now with what your amp is sounding better the HD800? woo audio or burson?


 
  It's a bit too early to tell.
  Seem both very smooth pairing (can't say that it's cold or even analytical)
  6se seem to add a touch of weight on its mid and slightly more treble extension (still very smooth though).
  But I can be wrong as it's still very early.
   
  I think hd800 is source dependent as well, as I tried it before with soloist and other dac (at the shop a few weeks before) and that trial make me believe that hd800 is not for me (give me a slight headache)
  But when my shop start stocking Nad M51, I tried using that dac + soloist, and I decide that I need to buy that phone


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





jsgraha said:


> It's a bit too early to tell.
> Seem both very smooth pairing (can't say that it's cold or even analytical)
> 6se seem to add a touch of weight on its mid and slightly more treble extension (still very smooth though).
> But I can be wrong as it's still very early.
> ...


 
  I also had positive experience running my signal from m51 to HD800. While I am sure there are better DACs out there, the NAD as a nice even presentation - detailed but not thin.


----------



## jsgraha

cante ista said:


> I also had positive experience running my signal from m51 to HD800. While I am sure there are better DACs out there, the NAD as a nice even presentation - detailed but not thin.




I agreed, that's when I believe that HD800 is also source dependent. I would like to a/b ref7 with m51 but bringing this 15kg dac was a bit too much so I decided just to take a leap of faith


----------



## Operakid

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> I would say you should give it around 100hrs. Although I have also heard that HD800 dont really need burn in as they go through that process at the factory. Personally I feel its more your ears adjusting to the HD800 sound that might be a bigger factor.


 
   
  Such wisdom!  I have been in the high end industry 3 decades and I have heard this only a handful of times from end users.  For a fact much "perceived break in" is in actuality this factor!  I have seen folks go from one piece of equip to a much brighter one that was reviewed positively and hear them say, "well, it's bright, but it will break in".  Weeks later when I've visited them I've asked "how is it" only to always hear "much better, really nice now".  I then swap in the original, let them listen, then swap in the new, and they say "Oh, that's bright"!
   
  Yes, the ears adjust, and this is a big part of the "break in game" as I call it.  
   
  Certainly, some break in happens, especially with speaker surrounds and spiders, and more so with woofers.  But much of it with other equipment is exaggerated.
   
  Think of putting on sunglasses: everything is colored.  10 minutes later you don't notice the coloration.  Every audio guy thinking he is immune to the aural version of this is in denial.


----------



## Operakid

Quote: 





jsgraha said:


> I agreed, that's when I believe that HD800 is also source dependent. I would like to a/b ref7 with m51 but bringing this 15kg dac was a bit too much so I decided just to take a leap of faith


 
   
  The more clear the transducer the more source dependent it will be.


----------



## YoengJyh

UERM is very versatile. Sometime, i feel that i prefer the UERM sound signature than HD800. 
   
  How do you feel Maxvla?


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





operakid said:


> Think of putting on sunglasses: everything is colored.  10 minutes later you don't notice the coloration.  Every audio guy thinking he is immune to the aural version of this is in denial.


 
  Exactly. That's also what I think that people that say the audio  nirvana with a particular gear, *might *be fooling themselves (I'm not implying it's always the case, I  just stay skeptical) . A lot of the listening activity is actually  *mental*, you are interpreting signals.


----------



## Frank I

I believe it also more as the whole system matching for any headphone makes a huge difference. I would also not leave out the interconnects to the source and the cable on the hd800. It all matters IMO. An example would be I just swapped out an audioquest interconnect for some monoprice as I moved the main amp with a different location and the sound is horrible. I need to seek out another 2M cable for the source to receiver. it is apparent and the sound degraded big time. High quality interconnects are a huge necessity IMO and many may never know what the hD800 and their system can do if they are neglecting the interconnects. I suggest that people should try different interconnects and then evaluate what sound best for their systems, The hd800 will let you hear differences easily. YOMV


----------



## jsgraha

frank i said:


> I believe it also more as the whole system matching for any headphone makes a huge difference. I would also not leave out the interconnects to the source and the cable on the hd800. It all matters IMO. An example would be I just swapped out an audioquest interconnect for some monoprice as I moved the main amp with a different location and the sound is horrible. I need to seek out another 2M cable for the source to receiver. it is apparent and the sound degraded big time. High quality interconnects are a huge necessity IMO and many may never know what the hD800 and their system can do if they are neglecting the interconnects. I suggest that people should try different interconnects and then evaluate what sound best for their systems, The hd800 will let you hear differences easily. YOMV




+1


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I believe it also more as the whole system matching for any headphone makes a huge difference. I would also not leave out the interconnects to the source and the cable on the hd800. It all matters IMO. An example would be I just swapped out an audioquest interconnect for some monoprice as I moved the main amp with a different location and the sound is horrible. I need to seek out another 2M cable for the source to receiver. it is apparent and the sound degraded big time. High quality interconnects are a huge necessity IMO and many may never know what the hD800 and their system can do if they are neglecting the interconnects. I suggest that people should try different interconnects and then evaluate what sound best for their systems, The hd800 will let you hear differences easily. YOMV


 
  +2


----------



## Maxvla

yoengjyh said:


> UERM is very versatile. Sometime, i feel that i prefer the UERM sound signature than HD800.
> 
> How do you feel Maxvla?



Still prefer the brighter HD800 to the UERM most of the time. There's more detail and texture from the HD800s versus more bass and better imaging/holography on the UERM.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I believe it also more as the whole system matching for any headphone makes a huge difference. I would also not leave out the interconnects to the source and the cable on the hd800. It all matters IMO. An example would be I just swapped out an audioquest interconnect for some monoprice as I moved the main amp with a different location and the sound is horrible. I need to seek out another 2M cable for the source to receiver. it is apparent and the *sound degraded big time*. High quality interconnects are a huge necessity IMO and many may never know what the hD800 and their system can do if they are neglecting the interconnects. I suggest that people should try different interconnects and then evaluate what sound best for their systems, The hd800 will let you hear differences easily. YOMV


 
   
  Cables do not make any difference in sound quality, even with HD800... Tried it myself, only heard very slight variation in frequency response (which I don't like and therefore I avoid adapters or non-stock cables if possible). Reasonably built/priced cables are 100% enough.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Cables do not make any difference in sound quality, even with HD800... Tried it myself, only heard very slight variation in frequency response (which I don't like and therefore I avoid adapters or non-stock cables if possible). Reasonably built/priced cables are 100% enough.


 
  Thanks for your opinion but I been dojng this for a long time and I hear major differences and if you happy with your system it is after all you system. In my system the cables make major differences especially interconnects. happy your happy like I said YOMV


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Thanks for your opinion but I been dojng this for a long time and I hear major differences and if you happy with your system it is after all you system. In my system the cables make major differences especially interconnects. happy your happy like I said YOMV


 
   
  +1


----------



## Cante Ista

frank i said:


> Thanks for your opinion but I been dojng this for a long time and I hear major differences and if you happy with your system it is after all you system. In my system the cables make major differences especially interconnects. happy your happy like I said YOMV



+2. If ur not hearing it, ur gear is not sensitive enough. Or ur ears.....


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> +2. If ur not hearing it, ur gear is not sensitive enough. Or ur ears.....


 
   
  As I said - I can hear a slight variation in frequency response... Not any real improvement.
   
  If there are *MAJOR* improvements, it must be measurable... easily.


----------



## preproman

Everything can't be measured.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Everything can't be measured.


 
   
  Proof?


----------



## Solude

Major is a bit strong of a word for cables.  They make a difference since there are measurable differences in cables themselves but let's not forget that the amp and source have gimpy little copper traces, tons of solder and solid bare copper or inexpensive twisted cable to the jacks.  In the case of transformer output amps... wire wrapped over wire in great lengths.  That 1m interconnect is not making a Major difference.
   
  In other news, you are also correct in that RustA's rig couldn't resolve the difference anyway.  But lets not go down the road of selling the idea that a cable can change a rig more than a change in source or amp or can.


----------



## kiwikaki

help, I got HD800 10 hours ago and I can not take my ........ I'm 'only with the mdac 
  this does not feel any peak on the high ... just would like a little 'more' body ..... I'll find 'an amp.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





solude said:


> Major is a bit strong of a word for cables.  They make a difference since there are measurable differences in cables themselves but let's not forget that the amp and source have gimpy little copper traces, tons of solder and solid bare copper or inexpensive twisted cable to the jacks.  In the case of transformer output amps... wire wrapped over wire in great lengths.  That 1m interconnect is not making a Major difference.
> 
> *In other news, you are also correct in that RustA's rig couldn't resolve the difference anyway*.  But lets not go down the road of selling the idea that a cable can change a rig more than a change in source or amp or can.


 
   
  You win, I lost. Congrats!


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Proof?


 
  Sound Stage..


----------



## maarek99

Try plugging in some Van Den Hul cables. You will immediately notice a disappearance of treble and more bass. A definite difference, but it's not really neutral.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Sound Stage..


 
   
  Soundstage is subjective and frequency response dependent (try to play with EQ or crossfeed to find out)... It's not something that you could ever measure objectively, of course.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Sound Stage..


 

 Just switch between the hd800 and any headphone, you'd realize that the soundstage is always  bigger regardless of the cable.
  Anyway, who cares of minor difference, that most likely are in your mind ?
  People that just want to spend bucketload of money.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





maarek99 said:


> Try plugging in some Van Den Hul cables. You will immediately notice a disappearance of treble and more bass. A definite difference, but it's not really neutral.


 
   
  Difference is not necessarily equal improvement, that's all I am trying to say.
   
  Improvement would be something like lower noise level - and not only a change in frequency response. Better synergy is of course possible to hear subjectively but it's not equal to objectively better results.


----------



## Maxvla

Let's change course from cables.


----------



## Cante Ista

Edit.
   
  You're right. lets change course.


----------



## BournePerfect

Came to add my thoughts that cables do indeed make a difference-then noticed it was RustA you're squabbling with lol.
   
  But to the guys that claim 'brain burn in': that doesn't account for a damn thing if I don't listen to the headphones while they are burning in-yet there are easily noticeable improvements many hours later on just a second relisten. Case in point ime: K702 and Pro 2900.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Just switch between the hd800 and any headphone, you'd realize that the soundstage is always  bigger regardless of the cable.
> Anyway, who cares of minor difference, that most likely are in your mind ?
> People that just want to spend bucketload of money.


 
   
   
  Huh?  What are you talking about?  He ask for proof of what can't be measured.  I replied with Sound Stage.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Huh?  What are you talking about?  He ask for proof of what can't be measured.  I replied with Sound Stage.


 
  I suggested that you switch between the Hd800, and any headphone, to realize that the hd800 always stay better in the "Sound Stage" department , regardless of the cable. And what you can't measure, you might don't hear it as well.


----------



## RIQUE

I have a pair of brand new HD800 and I don´t like em so far. I feel that burn in is the culprit. How long do I need to cook these get some decent sound?


----------



## Solude

Others may disagree but my three pairs sounded the same out of the box as weeks later.  What's the rest of the rig?


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





rique said:


> I have a pair of brand new HD800 and I don´t like em so far. I feel that burn in is the culprit. How long do I need to cook these get some decent sound?


 
  Well most people  here would give you the advice to upgrade your source. What you don't like on the hd800 ?
  I  don't think  the burning will change anything .


----------



## toschek

rique said:


> I have a pair of brand new HD800 and I don´t like em so far. I feel that burn in is the culprit. How long do I need to cook these get some decent sound?




^^ As the other guys said, what is your source? Burn-in isn't going to fix something that's not broken (hd800s). If you're running it off your PC soundcard/iPad/iPhone you're going to be underwhelmed, those things just don't have the juice to run the headphones. If your source is good though, maybe the hd800s just aren't for you. There are alternatives...

Can we get a dedicated cable fight thread please? This thread doesn't need to get locked like the last one. There was a lot of good info in the last thread and now it's sunk to the bottom of the sea. I'd hate for that to happen again because we can't resist feeding the trolls.


----------



## zigy626

Frankly I dont think the HD800 has any burn-in, mine sounds the same after 90hrs of use. Maybe its because of the ring driver I am not really sure. Or maybe these headphone go through some sort of burn-in process at the factory. Remember every HD800 come with its particular frequency response graph. And Sennheiser would not tolerate or want the sound signature of the headphone to change once it leaves the factory. This is top of the line stuff and the companies reputation banks on this product (Hand built and Made in Germany means something). The only burn-in will happen in your brain and ears once you get used to the HD800 sound. Its a awesome pair of headphones.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





toschek said:


> If you're running it off your PC soundcard/iPad/iPhone you're going to be underwhelmed, those things just don't have the juice to run the headphones


 
  Well, look at these old posts :
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/426508/sennheiser-hd800-appreciation-thread/4440#post_8430905
  Not everyone is "underwhelmed".
   
  Personally I think that the hd800 are not for everyone taste.


----------



## toschek

extrabigmehdi said:


> Well, look at these old posts :
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/426508/sennheiser-hd800-appreciation-thread/4440#post_8430905
> Not everyone is "underwhelmed".
> 
> Personally I think that the hd800 are not for everyone taste.




OK, well maybe some people aren't, and maybe the guy who said that has a great mobo and the maker didn't skimp on parts. Maybe the sound out of his board wasn't really all that hot and he didn't know the difference. All I know is that I've got a $250 Asus ROG board with a supposedly excellent outboard sound card (http://usa.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/MAXIMUS_V_FORMULATHUNDERFX/) and it sounds like absolute crap compared to even a lowly Aune T1. 

The HD800s aren't to everyone's tastes, exactly. Maybe the poster should try some HE-500s or LCD 2s, but until we all know more about his setup, who knows.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





toschek said:


> . All I know is that I've got a $250 Asus ROG board with a supposedly excellent outboard sound card (http://usa.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/MAXIMUS_V_FORMULATHUNDERFX/) and it sounds like absolute crap compared to even a lowly Aune T1.


 
   
  Well  you are comparing a solid state amp to a tube one .... It might be, that you are just liking the tube sound.


----------



## toschek

They sound just fine on my Denon AVR too, and I'm sure no ***** were given in the design of the headphone out in that case either.


----------



## TooPoor

I was being stupid lately and actually put my HD800s up for sale. I came to my senses thank God, but I did sell off a lot of my other gear including my Bifrost. Is there any DAC out there that will hold me over (similar to the Bifrost) until I can grab a high end/summit fi DAC? I'd love to pick up a Concero still, but would like to explore my options for a decent 'budget' (ugh, I hate that word when discussing the HD800s) DAC.


----------



## rawrster

I've thought about selling the HD800 esp when I was just using the HE6 for a few months but I don't think I can ever sell them.
   
  As for the dac in the price range the Concero is a very good value. It's a simple dac in terms of inputs/outputs and doesn't give much more than what people need. You have either usb or spdif in and then RCA outs. The dac is surprisingly good and I expected it to disappoint but it didn't. The only other dac I've heard in that price range that I could recommend is the Yulong D18 but that comes at a trade off between neutrality and smooth sounding. It has a smooth signature and definitely doesn't follow the rule that most dacs I've heard follows where the dac should have no sound and the color comes from the amp. Both are good but I prefer the D18 for the balanced outs.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

I couldn't find a suitable DAC-match for the HD800 at a price/performance level below the Concero... but then again I didn't try absolutely everything out there either.


----------



## TooPoor

Understood. I'm not looking for the Holy Grail on a budget. Just a 'rebound', if you will. I will end up grabbing a higher end DAC and am quite happy with the V200 too. Maybe something from AudioGD?


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Understood. I'm not looking for the Holy Grail on a budget. Just a 'rebound', if you will. I will end up grabbing a higher end DAC and am quite happy with the V200 too. Maybe something from AudioGD?


 
  I also highly recommend the Concero, given your requirements.  It serves an excellent role as a transitional DAC in that if you get a higher end one later, you can still use it as an excellent USB converter while retaining it's filter options and remote control features.
   
  I was using it as just a DAC at first, and now as a USB converter for a PS Audio Nuwave.  I find it noticeably better than the Nuwave USB input, and the Nuwave uses the well regarded XMOS chip.  The Concero doesn't seem to bottleneck the HD800 relative to it's pricepoint.
   
  Audio-GD DACs are also an excellent value, I've owned 2 of their DACs and now one of their amps.  Though they are much bulkier than the Concero if that's a factor.  And their less "transitional" unless you want to pull a DAC buy/sell round robin like I did for a bit.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Came to add my thoughts that cables do indeed make a difference-then noticed it was RustA you're squabbling with lol.
> 
> But to the guys that claim 'brain burn in': that doesn't account for a damn thing if I don't listen to the headphones while they are burning in-yet there are easily noticeable improvements many hours later on just a second relisten. Case in point ime:* K702* and Pro 2900.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  Most def! +1!


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Understood. I'm not looking for the Holy Grail on a budget. Just a 'rebound', if you will. I will end up grabbing a higher end DAC and am quite happy with the V200 too. Maybe something from AudioGD?


 
  You can get PS audio DL iii *dirt cheap* if you can find it and it has nice anologee sound.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> You can get PS audio DL iii *dirt cheap* if you can find it and it has nice anologee sound.


 
   
  +1
   
  DL III is very nice, should be better than bifrost too.


----------



## rawrster

You can find them on Audiogon pretty easily


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> You can find them on Audiogon pretty easily


 

 Exactly. And many of these are modded. The cullen mods are nice indeed.


----------



## kazsud

Are there a carrying case that the 800s fit that will fit into a back pack?
   
  I've searched and only found one on eBay that was pretty thin.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> Are there a carrying case that the 800s fit that will fit into a back pack?
> 
> I've searched and only found one on eBay that was pretty thin.


 

 I think you just need to get a bigger back pack the fit the big @$$ box it come in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. But seriously, I have not seen anything like that. When traveling, I pack then into a carry on in that big box -- sucks!


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> Are there a carrying case that the 800s fit that will fit into a back pack?
> 
> I've searched and only found one on eBay that was pretty thin.


 
  I'm not sure it fit on a back pack, but look for "Hippo HD800 Travel Case".
  Otherwise I use the pelicase 1400 (that do not fit on a back back, but still more convenient than the default big box).


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> I was being stupid lately and actually put my HD800s up for sale. I came to my senses thank God, but I did sell off a lot of my other gear including my Bifrost. Is there any DAC out there that will hold me over (similar to the Bifrost) until I can grab a high end/summit fi DAC? I'd love to pick up a Concero still, but would like to explore my options for a decent 'budget' (ugh, I hate that word when discussing the HD800s) DAC.


 
  Glad you decided to stay in the hobby. Like your marriage this hobby will also last a lifetime a sI been doing it since 1979


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> Are there a carrying case that the 800s fit that will fit into a back pack?
> 
> I've searched and only found one on eBay that was pretty thin.


 

 Hifiman travel case should fit them.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Glad you decided to stay in the hobby. *Like your marriage this hobby will also last a lifetime* a sI been doing it since 1979


 
  +1
   
  I'm 15 years in, about 5 years with speaker set-ups and about 10 yr with hp's (6 of them with the 650's) and I can always see me enjoying this hobby. My Dad has had the same hobby all my life too, so it must be in my blood! Even though I've recently bought an end-game headphone I'm still miles from reaching the the summit. But I'm kind of pleased, as I'm enjoying the journey too much. Don't want it to end ha. 
   
  Anyways, 
   
  Two weeks with the HD800's now and they are constantly surprising me. I recently set up my old Marantz cd player to spin a few cd's. I've been using  computers as a source for quite a few years now. The Senn's really let me know the Marantz limitations. The sound seemed hard and very digital, clinical.. I know this player well(or I thought I did) and always though it had a gentle, pleasant signature.. But it just goes to show how transparent these hp's are. For better or worse they will let you know everything! It's the first time that I've actually found the HD800's fatiguing with brass. Letting my Marantz run through my Rdac and the sound changes to a more natural tonality.. Again the HD800's letting me hear the difference instantly.
   
  I think I may have struck lucky with my two rigs and the HD800's because they certainly let me know when I added something that was not to their liking! Seems they are harder to please than I first thought... I'm gonna be _very_ careful with upgrades from now on. Snobs that they are


----------



## juantendo8

Tonally, I have found the HD800 somewhat underwhelming in stock form. I thought my stock SR-Lambda, an almost 35 year old headphone, to have superior tonality. I love many things that the stock HD800 did, but it didn't ultimately satisfy.
   
  Fast forward to the present, I have put Anax 2.0 (Rabid Dawg 1) and some simple and subtle parametric EQ and have fundamentally "fixed" this headphone. All my quips and reservations are long gone. The stock Lambda has nothing over the Senn at this point in time.
   
   

   
  No more excessive brightness. No more thin and nasal tonality. All the technicalities and strengths of the stock HD800. The EQ shift was only about up and down 3dB. I'm sure EQ would really help the stock form also, but the mod makes the EQ simpler and less dramatic.
   
  I am a newcomer to parametric EQ and realize that many do not want to have to learn the ropes, so I will post my exact EQ settings from Electri-Q (using Foobar2000):
   
  Peak filter I - Freq: 4137.4     Gain: 5.8     BW: 1
  Peak filter II - Freq: 5696.1     Gain: -6.1     BW: 1.1
  Peak filter III - Freq: 20000     Gain: 3     BW: 3    
  Gain filter - Freq: any     Gain: -3.3     BW: any
   
  *The gain filter is to prevent clipping. Let your amp make up the difference by cranking up that volume knob.
   
  Try it out if you can. You can even AB from no EQ (remember to volume match) to this EQ at the click of a button. It changed my HD800 from a nice but flawed headphone, to my favorite headphone. It probably would even help out the stock HD800, although not as dramatically, as I tweaked it with Anax 2.0 in mind. Also feel free to tweak and improve if you want. I aimed for neutrality and openness here, but you may want to bump the bass also.


----------



## preproman

You found them underwhelming on the O2?  I tried that mod twice on 2 different HD800s.  Both times my soundstage was restricted I find them to be a really good headphone in the stock form.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> Are there a carrying case that the 800s fit that will fit into a back pack?
> 
> I've searched and only found one on eBay that was pretty thin.


 
   
  Quote: 





cante ista said:


> I think you just need to get a bigger back pack the fit the big @$$ box it come in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I'm not sure it fit on a back pack, but look for "Hippo HD800 Travel Case".
> Otherwise I use the pelicase 1400 (that do not fit on a back back, but still more convenient than the default big box).


 
  I use the hippo case large (got it from Jaben with a  stand and a hippo biscuit for about $100):

 SKU5221 Hippocase (L) with FREE CrossRoads Metal Headphone Stand and new Hippo Biscuit MP3 Player!
  It's a semi-hard case so it's not gorilla proof one but it works.


----------



## juantendo8

Yes, they have a thinner compressed timbre that is not natural in stock form. It is caused by a dip in the mids followed by a wild swing up to 6k. It's not unlistenably bad, but still a fundamental flaw in a headphone that aims for supreme neutrality. It is extremely apparent if you listen to the high strings of an orchestra with well-recorded classical music.
   
  Again, the tonality problem is not as prominent in every genre or track, but I can hear the problem in most any track. As for the soundstage, I purposely increased the high treble response (which our ears are not sensitive to) in order to increase the perceived airiness of the sound.


----------



## kazsud

bearfnf said:


> I use the hippo case large (got it from Jaben with a  stand and a hippo biscuit for about $100):
> 
> SKU5221Hippocase (L) with FREE CrossRoads Metal Headphone Stand and new Hippo Biscuit MP3 Player!
> It's a semi-hard case so it's not gorilla proof one but it works.





Looks like a winner!!


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *juantendo8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> No more excessive brightness. No more thin and nasal tonality. All the technicalities and strengths of the stock HD800. The EQ shift was only about up and down 3dB. I'm sure EQ would really help the stock form also, but the mod makes the EQ simpler and less dramatic.
> 
> ...


 
  Tested your EQ settings, with same VST, but with stock hd800.
  What I  notice:
  - smaller soundstage
  - less "laid back"
  - reduced stereo separation, maybe decreasing the need of crossfeed
  - a bit less sibilant
  - sometimes it appears a bit more obviously harsh, although when I disable the eq, it just seem that "harshness"
  is drowned in a lot of treble energy.
  - some loss of treble texture , details
  - perhaps a bit less thin, since it's more easy to separate some trebly part of music. But it's a bit gross.
  I  still feel that some part of the "excitement" is gone, so that's mitigated.


----------



## silversurfer616

I rather try to find the right synergy within the chain of components, than EQing my HD800 as I think it compromises the integrity of the intended sound signature.


----------



## soullinker20

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> I rather try to find the right synergy within the chain of components, than EQing my HD800 as I think it compromises the integrity of the intended sound signature.


 

 +1
   
  I see you use cardas too, which cardas are you using anyway?


----------



## silversurfer616

Had the regular Cardas headphone cable but have now the Norse adapter,so I can use a balanced ALO chain mail intended for my LCD2.
  This through a balanced Audio GD DAC and the Phoenix and I have no complaints!


----------



## juantendo8

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Tested your EQ settings, with same VST, but with stock hd800.
> What I  notice:
> - smaller soundstage
> - less "laid back"
> ...


 
   
  Well, I really have no way to test this on a stock HD800 myself, as I don't feel like ripping out the foam inside mine. I can assure you that it is an improvement with the Anax 2.0 if you would ever be inclined to try it. Nothing fancy going on. Just flattening out the mids and treble some.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> Hifiman travel case should fit them.


 

 Yep, fit with room to spare, just tested it out, you need either take out foam insert or modify it to the shape of HD800, I just use it w/o insert as this way it fits variety of phones.
  It's also more compact than Hippo case.
  http://www.head-direct.com/Products/?act=detail&id=118#
  Check ebay for cheaper prices.


----------



## soullinker20

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> Yep, fit with room to spare, just tested it out, you need either take out foam insert or modify it to the shape of HD800, I just use it w/o insert as this way it fits variety of phones.
> It's also more compact than Hippo case.
> http://www.head-direct.com/Products/?act=detail&id=118#
> Check ebay for cheaper prices.


 
   
  this case also fits perfectly on LCD 3


----------



## MorbidToaster

silversurfer616 said:


> I rather try to find the right synergy within the chain of components, than EQing my HD800 as I think it compromises the integrity of the intended sound signature.




Anything colored at all compromises the signature. For instance, I might not use EQ on HD800s with my Leben, but it's definitely not the usual HD800 signature.


----------



## silversurfer616

Of course I don't know what the by Sennheiser intended sound signature sounds like but I just try to tweak the HD800 by using(as you say "coloured" or not coloured)individual components to make it pleasant for my ears.
  I refuse EQing because it always degrades the sound(at least for me).


----------



## extrabigmehdi

I  have nothing against eq, but I found that any change with eq in the treble area, are  quite noticeable while using the hd800; even with the smoothest eq curve and small amounts.
  At the end , I  think the hd800 has its "flavor", and I  don't want to detract it too much.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> Of course I don't know what the by Sennheiser intended sound signature sounds like but I just try to tweak the HD800 by using(as you say "coloured" or not coloured)individual components to make it pleasant for my ears.
> I refuse EQing because it always degrades the sound(at least for me).


 
   
  +1 on that


----------



## MorbidToaster

You guys aren't using the right EQs. 

I will say I haven't found a software EQ I liked though.


----------



## longbowbbs

Maybe its the tubes, but I have not found a need for an EQ with my Decware....One less link in the chain...


----------



## MorbidToaster

longbowbbs said:


> Maybe its the tubes, but I have not found a need for an EQ with my Decware....One less link in the chain...




I've never found a tube amp I thought needed EQ with the HD800. Just SS.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> You guys aren't using the right EQs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Fab filter pro q, is my current favorite eq. Convenient interface, and clean sound.


----------



## preproman

With the GS-X mk2 and the Master 7 - no EQ is needed IMO.


----------



## nigeljames

+1 Same here with NFB-7 & Master-6 running single ended.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I've never found a tube amp I thought needed EQ with the HD800. Just SS.


 
  Well, if someone is interested, there's a dsp that is intended to imitate the tube sound.
  Off course, use a SS for source.
  I'd be interested by impression from people already familiar with tubes:
  http://wavearts.com/products/plugins/tube/
  Oh and take a little time to tweak it, don't bash it too fast.
  It's cpu heavy.


----------



## JWahl

I personally feel the HD800 benefits more from good crossfeed than eq, but it could be because the crossfeed takes out some of the treble edge along with it.  For me though, it's mostly for the center image.  After adjusting to the crossfed signal, it almost hurts my brain to listen to it without.  Almost like everything is shouting at me from the sides.
   
  I'd be interested to hear the new Taboo III.  I know it uses their "lucid mode" which is supposed to be some variation of crossfeed.  And I've also read that some tube amps have better center image in general.


----------



## Solude

GS-X mk2 and PWD2... if anything I would EQ some treble IN not OUT.  And I would never dream of using crossfeed on the HD800.  It already has pinpoint staging left to right top to bottom and front back.  Why would I want to push everything closer to the middle?  Crossfeed is useful for material that is hard panned to only left or right or for headphones that are only capable of three blob staging.  Beyond that it's just one more thing in the chain altering the original.


----------



## MorbidToaster

solude said:


> GS-X mk2 and PWD2... if anything I would EQ some treble IN not OUT.  And I would never dream of using crossfeed on the HD800.  It already has pinpoint staging left to right top to bottom and front back.  Why would I want to push everything closer to the middle?  Crossfeed is useful for material that is hard panned to only left or right or for headphones that are only capable of three blob staging.  Beyond that it's just one more thing in the chain altering the original.




I found the 009 more accurate staging wise. It's not as wide but it's more precise.


----------



## longbowbbs

Speaking specifically about Decware's Lucid mode. It recreates the hearing perspective of natural sound. Our left ear can hear things from the right and the right ear from the left in natural space. Lucid does an interesting job of creating that perception within its headphone presentation. It is not intended for or recommended to be optimal for every recording. For some recordings it can be a revelation. Others it is just annoying. The main thing is you can turn it on or off as desired. I enjoyed Lucid Mode and found it was an interesting addition to the listening experience. As with anything it is a "YMMV" thing....


----------



## paradoxper

Like there are hard and fast rules, do what pleases your ears.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Like there are hard and fast rules, do what pleases your ears.


 
  +1


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





jwahl said:


> I personally feel the HD800 benefits more from good crossfeed than eq, but it could be because the crossfeed takes out some of the treble edge along with it.  For me though, it's mostly for the center image.  After adjusting to the crossfed signal, it almost hurts my brain to listen to it without.  Almost like everything is shouting at me from the sides.


 
   
  I totally agree , crossfeed is almost a must have with the hd800. This "dissociated" sound between left and right, is just too jarring for me.
  I didn't have this problem with other headphone, perhaps because a layer of muddiness makes the separation less obvious.
  Regarding treble, you are right, that some crossfeed tame it.
   
  Here's what I get , when I analyze the default setting of BS2B:

   
  You see that the frequencies are tamed by almost 2db, which in he case of hd800, is not necessarily a bad thing.
   
  I wanted to analyze the side channel too , which represent the stereo separation ( (left-right)*0.5 ):
   

   
  You see that the stereo separation is heavily reduced for the bass , below 500  hz.
   
  I still think that crossfeed doesn't sound perfect, so it's a bit a frustrating experience, to decide either you turn it on or not.


----------



## palmfish

I find so much of my music is mixed in such a wide variety of curves that EQ is a must sometimes. Some recordings are so bright that it's like nails on a chalkboard to listen to them. Other recordings are so dull and bloomy that they need the mids and bass turned down. It's not the amp or headphones I'm adjusting for, it's the recording.


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





solude said:


> GS-X mk2 and PWD2... if anything I would EQ some treble IN not OUT.  And I would never dream of using crossfeed on the HD800.  It already has pinpoint staging left to right top to bottom and front back.  Why would I want to push everything closer to the middle?  Crossfeed is useful for material that is hard panned to only left or right or for headphones that are only capable of three blob staging.  Beyond that it's just one more thing in the chain altering the original.


 
  Perhaps my current gear doesn't resolve that level of soundstage accuracy so it's a useful for me.  I should get to hear an Apex Peak/Volcano at meet later this month, which you've said in the past has a pretty good soundstage separation and accuracy so that will be interesting to hear.  
   
  The SA-31 has a very good sense of space but it's difficult to judge it's accuracy without a proper frame of reference.


----------



## Solude

Peak is good for low impedance headphones but on the HD800 I thought it was somewhat thin and dry.  GS-X mk2 is neither.


----------



## Solude

Just realized that nearly all my gear is mk2 /facepalm


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> +1 Same here with NFB-7 & Master-6 running single ended.


 
  I hope you're right. I have an M8 en route to pair with my M7. And my Pioneer SA8100 isn't doing my Senns any favors-somewhat piercing and harsh like every other ss amp I tried them with. Gosh I miss my ZDSE...Leviathan can't get here soon enough.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I totally agree , crossfeed is almost a must have with the hd800. This "dissociated" sound between left and right, is just too jarring for me.
> I didn't have this problem with other headphone, perhaps because a layer of muddiness makes the separation less obvious.
> Regarding treble, you are right, that some crossfeed tame it.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I agree that HD800 benefits from crossfeed - it perfects the soundstage.
   
  That said, try out some hardware-based one. The circuit in my StageDAC is extremely superior to anything software based I've tried before (BS2B, tb isone, Jriver's native, Redline etc.). Just a complete improvement without any degradation and without being too obvious (its implemenation into "stock" sound is subtle and very natural).
   
  I am never again going to listen to my headphones without hardware crossfeed or device like Realiser, it's too crucial for me...


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





rusta said:


> I agree that HD800 benefits from crossfeed - it perfects the soundstage.
> 
> That said, try out some hardware-based one. The circuit in my StageDAC is extremely superior to anything software based I've tried before (BS2B, tb isone, Jriver's native, Redline etc.). Just a complete improvement without any degradation and without being too obvious (its implemenation into "stock" sound is subtle and very natural).
> 
> I am never again going to listen to my headphones without hardware crossfeed or device like Realiser, it's too crucial for me...


 

 Well, I  imagine that the hardware based one could be superior. I  like to experiment with dsp, anyway ; I might create my own vst one day.


----------



## LugBug1

I wouldn't want to change the sound of the HD800's, they are the most transparent hp's I've heard. I've needed to equalize hp's in the past and I'm not against it. I just find it difficult to understand why anyone would need to with these. 
   
  Any apparent flaws with a headphone of this calibre would surely of been sorted by now.. What's it 5 years its been in production? 
   
  Equalize/crossfeed for personal taste, but don't kid yourself that you are correcting this world class hp.


----------



## zigy626

I am finding the bass to be too thin at times when listening to the HD800. I don't think that every song I listen to was meant to have thin bass. On some songs the bass seems to be non-existant its like I would be listening to a pair of tweeters. What am I doing wrong? And how can I fix this?


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Equalize/crossfeed for personal taste, but don't kid yourself that you are correcting this world class hp.


 
  Well since most music is produced using speakers, it's not wrong to use crossfeed. I  think with the hd800, we are just getting more aware of the limits of headphones.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> I am finding the bass to be too thin at times when listening to the HD800. I don't think that every song I listen to was meant to have thin bass. On some songs the bass seems to be non-existant its like I would be listening to a pair of tweeters. What am I doing wrong? And how can I fix this?


 
  it is possibly 2 things. 
   
  1) it could be that you are a bass head and just like more bass than the rest of us HD800 fans like and should look at audezes 
   
  2) your gear does not extend well enough or your source material is poorly recorded. HD 800 reveals all of it. my 2 cents.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

imo, if you consider using EQ on HD800, you might as well go back to HD 600/650.


----------



## Maxvla

I was listening to some trance last night and the bass was so well done it was addictive and I literally couldn't stop despite being up way later than I should have been.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> imo, if you consider using EQ on HD800, you might as well go back to HD 600/650.


 
   
  My thoughts as well.  Or just a different headphone family altogether..
   
   
  Quote: 





cante ista said:


> it is possibly 2 things.
> 
> 1) it could be that you are a bass head and just like more bass than the rest of us HD800 fans like and should look at audezes
> 
> 2) your gear does not extend well enough or your source material is poorly recorded. HD 800 reveals all of it. my 2 cents.


 
   
   
  I'd say #2


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> I am finding the bass to be too thin at times when listening to the HD800. I don't think that every song I listen to was meant to have thin bass. On some songs the bass seems to be non-existant its like I would be listening to a pair of tweeters. What am I doing wrong? And how can I fix this?


 
  I found the mid-bass pretty strong/good, but then it's weaker below.
  Listen to the title  Claude VonStroke "Who's Afraid of Detroit", and tell me if you still find the bass thin:


----------



## aphex27

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> imo, if you consider using EQ on HD800, you might as well go back to HD 600/650.


 
  I'm thinking Beats.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





aphex27 said:


> I'm thinking Beats.


 
  I think it depends on your EQ. I think HD800 are great without modding or EQ'ing. 
   
  What I think happens is when people move up to better headphones aka hd800 (and I am not saying this is the case here, just in general), they come from cans that are designed to compensate for crappy low fi digital downloads with emphasized lower mid-range and bass. As many of us move up, we get the good cans and improve the rest our systems subsequently (not all, but many of us). The result is oftentimes the combination of 1) upstream components that perform below the level needed for fine instruments like the HD800 and 2) ears/brain that are used to emphasized lower frequencies from the use of lesser headphones. 
   
  Then again, anyone reading it should not get bogged down by what some feels is better or worse. If you dont like it, ditch it. Life is too short.


----------



## aphex27

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> I think it depends on your EQ. I think HD800 are great without modding or EQ'ing.
> 
> What I think happens is when people move up to better headphones aka hd800 (and I am not saying this is the case here, just in general), they come from cans that are designed to compensate for crappy low fi digital downloads with emphasized lower mid-range and bass. As many of us move up, we get the good cans and improve the rest our systems subsequently (not all, but many of us). The result is oftentimes the combination of 1) upstream components that perform below the level needed for fine instruments like the HD800 and 2) ears/brain that are used to emphasized lower frequencies from the use of lesser headphones.
> 
> Then again, anyone reading it should not get bogged down by what some feels is better or worse. If you dont like it, ditch it. Life is too short.


 
  I hear ya. But when someone says the HDs have "thin" bass, all I hear is "I love Justin Bieber".


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> *Equalize/crossfeed for personal taste, but don't kid yourself that you are correcting this world class hp. *


 
   
  Using crossfeed does exactly that - corrects what headphones cannot achieve alone (except for K1000). Until I heard a proper crossfeed, I thought HD800 don't benefit from it. That said, it is not NEEDED to enjoy these headphones, of course!


----------



## silversurfer616

As someone said before,crossfeed is only really necessary for older,3 blob stereo imaging to render it more coherent.
  It also reduces the soundstage(obviously)and takes away some bass impact.
  Another reason for me not to use EQ or crossfeed is that I want to hear the record as intended.
  Some indie stuff IS lowfi,some 80s music IS thin(due to production or bad transfer of the tapes etc.)and I don't want to change this as it is part of the parcel.
  As long as the well recorded/remastered stuff(e.g.James Taylor,Diana Krall)sounds GREAT on my system,I know that I have "calibrated"it right for my ears and I don't change that for less than stellar recordings.....because that is what they are!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





rusta said:


> Using crossfeed does exactly that - corrects what headphones cannot achieve alone (except for K1000). Until I heard a proper crossfeed, I thought HD800 don't benefit from it. That said, it is not NEEDED to enjoy these headphones, of course!


 
  IMO I wouldn't say it corrects them. It distorts the original image to give a "speaker effect". If I want that I'll listen to speakers thank you


----------



## kozmo

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> IMO I wouldn't say it corrects them. It distorts the original image to give a "speaker effect". If I want that I'll listen to speakers thank you


 
   
  But isn't that exactly what we are trying to achieve? The "speaker effect" I mean.
   
  Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> Another reason for me not to use EQ or crossfeed is that I want to hear the record as intended.


 
   
  Here lies the problem, the music recording was intended to be listened through a two channel system, with all the room effects and reflections that exist within your listening room. When listening in this fashion, your left ear is definitely involved with what’s happening at your right speaker.
   
  Listening through headphones, your left ear is only hearing what’s happening on the left channel of the recording, completely isolated from the right, (except for that very dense area directly between our ears and not allot of sound gets through that.)
   
  I think that crossfeed can correct (as well as it can) some of the short comings of generic recordings. When it’s done well the results are quite remarkable.
  Now if we had recordings specifically mastered for headphone playback, there “should” be no need to touch the music as the record intended.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> IMO I wouldn't say it corrects them. It distorts the original image to give a "speaker effect". If I want that I'll listen to speakers thank you


 
   
  Distorts is far from the truth IMHO... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I cannot use speakers because:
   
  1) I don't have money to afford great ones
  2) I don't have money to afford quality room and treatment
  3) I cannot listen to music at night with them (when I do all the time)
  4) I cannot transport a speaker system as easily as I can with headphones
   
  Still, I want to use crossfeed with headphones to improve my listening experience. I cannot afford Phonitor or Realiser, and don't consider software-based crossfeeds to be good enough, therefore StageDAC is the way (Daccord don't have as many options to optimise the crossfeed effect to my ears).
   
  However, crossfeed really isn't necessary. I just see it pretty much superior in comparison to non-crossfeed sound (again, only valid for StageDAC's crossfeed, haven't heard Phonitor yet).


----------



## LugBug1

I totally understand why peeps use crossfeed. But my view that any processing that messes with the original audio image is going to cause distortion and unwanted colour. My goal in audiophilia land is achieve a purity of sound. A pure sound from my headphones or speakers. Ofcourse headphones have limitations. So do speakers. But messing with the audio signal when you have spent thousands of $$ on componants that has been designed to reproduce your music as pure and to the original source as possible is, for look of a better word.. Madness. I've played a little with crossfeed before and I hear exactly what it does. If I was listening to some old Beatles recording on a cheap set up then its a great gadget.


----------



## kozmo

Gadget? Maybe.
   
  But we have already messed with the original signal, entirely isolating the right and left channels (headphones)
   
  Listening to live music in a concert hall, depending where you sit can make all the difference in the world. Headphones put you exactly in one spot, which would never happen anywhere outside of the world headphones.
   
  All IMHO of course.


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I totally understand why peeps use crossfeed. But my view that any processing that messes with the original audio image is going to cause distortion and unwanted colour. My goal in audiophilia land is achieve a purity of sound. A pure sound from my headphones or speakers. Ofcourse headphones have limitations. So do speakers. But messing with the audio signal when you have spent thousands of $$ on componants that has been designed to reproduce your music as pure and to the original source as possible is, for look of a better word.. Madness. I've played a little with crossfeed before and I hear exactly what it does. If I was listening to some old Beatles recording on a cheap set up then its a great gadget.


 
  Different strokes for different folks I suppose.  I wouldn't call it madness though.  I can still easily discern the differences in my equipment upgrades with my crossfeed enabled.  Also, JRiver can internally process DSP at 64 bit to greatly reduce any digital signal degradation.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





jwahl said:


> Different strokes for different folks I suppose.  I wouldn't call it madness though.  I can still easily discern the differences in my equipment upgrades with my crossfeed enabled.  Also, JRiver can internally process DSP at 64 bit to greatly reduce any digital signal degradation.


 
   
  I would say that the Jriver's crossfeed is the least degrading software crossfeed available... And I tried possibly all of them.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> It also reduces the soundstage(obviously)and takes away some bass impact.


 
    
  I believe , that one of the effect  intended of crossfeed is to "recenter" the bass. It shouldn't kill the impact, just help to have a more focused image.
  But  I've noticed , that a feeling of sluggishness might be induced by crossfeed.
   
  Quote:


lugbug1 said:


> IMO I wouldn't say it corrects them. It distorts the original image to give a "speaker effect". If I want that I'll listen to speakers thank you


 
  Without crossfeed, when you have a sound moving "regularly" from left to right,   it's as if it's accelerating when it's in front of you, or missing the intermediate position.  I think that without crossfeed,  you miss some of the "harmony" in music, that comes from the stereo effect.

 Quote: 





kozmo said:


> Now if we had recordings specifically mastered for headphone playback, there “should” be no need to touch the music as the record intended.


 
   
  Except that such records are rare. I've listened to some "nature recording", and they sound great without crossfeed.
   
  Quote: 





rusta said:


> Still, I want to use crossfeed with headphones to improve my listening experience. I cannot afford Phonitor or Realiser, and don't consider software-based crossfeeds to be good enough, therefore StageDAC is the way (Daccord don't have as many options to optimise the crossfeed effect to my ears).


 
   
  Oh I see that this StageDac is a product from Meier. According to their documentation , the crossfeed effect is applied progressively depending of the amount of stereo separation.
  With mono music, no crossfeed is applied, and it stays clean.
  I was actually curious of how it could be imitated by regular dsp.
  http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/crossfeed.htm


----------



## kozmo

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *extrabigmehdi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Except that such records are rare. I've listened to some "nature recording", and they sound great without crossfeed.


 
   
  This is true, they are very rare, most live recordings will give you an idea of how it should sound, unfortunately they are usually not recorded very well.
   
  Cowboy Junkies, Trinity Sessions, even though you can hear people walking around the church during recording, you seem to get a very good idea of how it sounded live.
   
  Edit: Sorry to go off track with this crossfeed discussion, we should probably get back to the HD800.


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





rusta said:


> I would say that the Jriver's crossfeed is the least degrading software crossfeed available... And I tried possibly all of them.


 
  I used the built in crossfeed for a while but now I'm using the TBIsone plugin which gives a few more options like speaker angle, HRTF compensation, etc.  It also has options to simulate room reflections but I prefer to leave it off since I don't really like the reverb effect.


----------



## preproman

Lets just appreciate these headphones


----------



## silversurfer616

+1....They just look good,llike a Mercedes or Porsche and made with the same dedication to quality.
  I know, because I am MADE IN GERMANy as well.....


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Lets just appreciate these headphones


 
  I can certainly appreciate that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I think if I ever sell these headphones, it's going to be to buy a new pair from Colorware.


----------



## rawrster

I've been thinking the same for a while


----------



## BournePerfect

Prep. what cable is that exactly?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> +1....They just look good,llike a Mercedes or Porsche and made with the same dedication to quality.
> I know, because I am MADE IN GERMANy as well.....


 
  Thanks mate
   




   
  Quote: 





jwahl said:


> I can certainly appreciate that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Do it...
   




  Quote: 





rawrster said:


> I've been thinking the same for a while


 
   
  Do it...
   




   
  Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Prep. what cable is that exactly?
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  That's the Skuld v2 4 conductor.  I just ordered a Reign 24 for them as well.


----------



## palmfish

silversurfer616 said:


> +1....They just look good,llike a Mercedes or Porsche and made with the same dedication to quality.
> I know, because I am MADE IN GERMANy as well.....:wink_face:




Well, maybe a 996 or 986 Porsche. A little too much plastic to compare with the "real" Porsches 

BTW, having a little 80's flashback right now. Welcome to the Pleasuredome has never sounded better to my ears.


----------



## esn89

subscribed to this.


----------



## Landmantx

Subscribe


----------



## TooPoor

Concero vs. PS Audio DL III? A few of the DLIII's on AudiogoN for seemingly great prices. Anyone have experience with both? This would be used with the V200...


----------



## LugBug1

They really do look the business Prep! 
   
  I want to try an upgrade cable but theres not much choice here in the uk. Apart from Cardas, and of course toxic (love toxic but the waiting time...).
   
  Has anyone tried the Cardas? Also are there any options for shipping to EU that may be worth a look at?
   
  (please only peeps that appreciate cables.. I don't care if you don't believe they make a difference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## erikfreedom

i love my hd 800. i have heard a lot a comments on this forum about the bass of the hd 800. i think they have incredible bass. and quite a quantity of it too. my beta 22 is my preferred amp with them. but i intend on getting a top tier tube amp for them too. i have a schiit lyr, but compared to my b22 the difference of sound quality to my ears is dramatic.
   
  i have heard good things about Donald north audio stratus amplifier. i find that the amp is very beautiful too.
   
  the only complaint about the hd 800 is how easily the paint chip. comfort is top notch, sound is stellar, price is expensive but very good considering the capability of these headphones and how incredibly high they will scale with a good match amplifier.
   
  i watch movies, play video games and listen to music with them. i use them for everything.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Lets just appreciate these headphones
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Which cable is that by the way?  Looks great, if it meets your approval SQ wise I might order one, I think I owe Norse some business after great service on Norse V1 cable for my LCD2 I had back then.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Lets just appreciate these headphones


 
  Gorgeous!


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





jwahl said:


> I used the built in crossfeed for a while but now I'm using the TBIsone plugin which gives a few more options like speaker angle, HRTF compensation, etc.  It also has options to simulate room reflections but I prefer to leave it off since I don't really like the reverb effect.


 
   
  TB Isone was my favourite before going for hardware crossfeed (Jriver's was second)... Let's say that the effect of StageDAC sounds like a combination of both. It improves the depth very well (like TB Isone, just several leagues more natural, without that unnatural "reverb" effect) along with "removing" unnatural frequencies (like Jriver's crossfeed does, just in way more natural way). StageDAC is subtle and gentle on your favourite music and still I cannot describe enough how much superior it is to any software-based crossfeed available. I believe that Phonitor must also work very well...
   
  I tried: TB Isone, Isone Pro, bs2b, Jriver's native, Redline Monitor, Sheppi free spatial enhancer, head-fit etc. etc.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





rusta said:


> TB Isone was my favourite before going for hardware crossfeed (Jriver's was second)... Let's say that the effect of StageDAC sounds like a combination of both. It improves the depth very well (like TB Isone, just several leagues more natural, without that unnatural "reverb" effect) along with "removing" unnatural frequencies (like Jriver's crossfeed does, just in way more natural way). StageDAC is subtle and gentle on your favourite music and still I cannot describe enough how much superior it is to any software-based crossfeed available. I believe that Phonitor must also work very well...
> 
> I tried: TB Isone, Isone Pro, bs2b, Jriver's native, Redline Monitor, Sheppi free spatial enhancer, head-fit etc. etc.


 
  I like the phonier. I own it, but i have concur that crossfeed seems unnecessary for a vast majority of recordings. it is nice but  really not necessary


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> I like the phonier. I own it, but i have concur that crossfeed seems unnecessary for a vast majority of recordings. it is nice but  really not necessary


 
   
  Yes, it is not necessary  That said, for someone like me it makes much more sense than spending thousands for ordinary DACs and amps that are up to 5% better realistically... Not talking about audiophile powercords and stuff.
   
  Wish I still had LCD-2 to compare how well it works with them... Since HD800 are quite special regarding their soundstage.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I found the mid-bass pretty strong/good, but then it's weaker below.
> Listen to the title  Claude VonStroke "Who's Afraid of Detroit", and tell me if you still find the bass thin:


 
  Same findings as yourself. Actually the first track I have listened where there was a hint of some thumping bass, even though it did not extend as low as I would have liked. Thanks nice example. Now if only other people could try the same track with their more capable tube amps and report the results. Can the HD800 do low thumping bass when paired with a soild tube amp?


----------



## Solude

GS-X mk2 puts out massive propulsive bass with the HD800.  Quite a bit more than the LCD-3/B22 combo to be honest.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Same findings as yourself. Actually the first track I have listened where there was a hint of some thumping bass, even though it did not extend as low as I would have liked. Thanks nice example. Now if only other people could try the same track with their more capable tube amps and report the results. Can the HD800 do low thumping bass when paired with a soild tube amp?


 
   
  There's also an other example, that show better the sub bass abilities of the hd800 ( Someone suggested it to me before: James Blake, Limit to your Love)
   
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOT2-OTebx0
   
  But frankly it's hard not hear that sub bass, it's raised to the max.
   
  I think the sub bass is not as good as the mid bass, and it's not much visceral.
  There's a video, where a senn representative say that the hd800 is able to play bass as low as 6hz; I call it bs.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> There's also an other example, that show better the sub bass abilities of the hd800 ( Someone suggested it to me before: James Blake, Limit to your Love)
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOT2-OTebx0
> 
> ...


 
  Great example of sub-bass very visceral, put a smile on my face.  So these cans can extend low even with my budget amp. Yeah doubt the 6hz claim but would be nice to feel that 6hz shaking between my ears.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> GS-X mk2 puts out massive propulsive bass with the HD800.  Quite a bit more than the LCD-3/B22 combo to be honest.


 
   
   
  Not in my rigs..  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Did you have the PWD2 / B22/ LCD-3 at the same time?


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The HD800 has some of the best bass in the business. It's visceral and subterranean when evident in the track. You should heed those running their HD800s from more than just a soundcard with dsp.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Not in my rigs..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  What can I say, you  love your AMB gear 
   
  B22 was gone by the time I had the PWD2.  I had the Peak with Syl which had deeper bass and better staging among other things than the B22 when the W4S DAC-2 was the source.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> What can I say, you  love your AMB gear
> 
> *B22 was gone by the time I had the PWD2.*  I had the Peak with Syl which had deeper bass and better staging among other things than the B22 when the* W4S DAC-2 was the source.*


 
   
   




   
  Aww man - That's why.    Just kidding..


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> The HD800 has some of the best bass in the business. It's visceral and subterranean when evident in the track. You should heed those running their HD800s from more than just a soundcard with dsp.


 

 I don't know if we should count the number of time , that the hd800 is told be the best on this thread. When someone dare to say otherwise , it's  each time  the occasion  to promote a better source, cable or whatever.  I know by heart the pattern now.

 You know what ? *I  don't dispute the claim that the hd800 could sound subjectively better on some source.* I'm actually tempted to think that these sources are *compensating *some of the flaws of the hd800, or just giving the* flavor* that people are looking for. You see , same end result, either you see that the glass is half empty, or half filled. I try to keep such considerations short. You are free to enjoy the "best" headphone from the "best" source, if this helps you to keep some peace of mind.
   
  And by the way , I  gave a precise example before , that show that hd800 is unable to give the uneasiness effect of infrasounds:  just listen to the  album heresy from lustmord (or track 3) . I  was told that headphone are commonly not able to reproduce that phenomenon, and that I  need good speakers. Except that I've experienced this on the srh940.
   
  But yeah,  keep on the philosophy that the hd800 is always "best".
 After that there's not much to discuss regarding the sound signature of the hd800.
  It's not then surprising that the whole thread is almost just about which better source, amp, dac, cable ...etc  would be better for the hd800.


----------



## nigeljames

I own the HE6's, LCD2.2's, T1's, and HD800's and saying any one is 'the best' is purely subjective.
   
  I enjoy them all for what they do and don't consider any of then to have serious flaws.
   
  At the moment my favourite is the probably the HE6's but that could change when I receive new cables for my LCD's, HE6's and a balanced cable for my HD800's.
   
  I believe any one of these phones could be made to sound like 'crap' in the wrong system and equally sound 'stunning' in the right system.
  There is no best and never will be.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I don't know if we should count the number of time , that the hd800 is told be the best on this thread. When someone dare to say otherwise , it's  each time  the occasion  to promote a better source, cable or whatever.  I know by heart the pattern now.
> 
> You know what ? *I  don't dispute the claim that the hd800 could sound subjectively better on some source.* I'm actually tempted to think that these sources are *compensating *some of the flaws of the hd800, or just giving the* flavor* that people are looking for. You see , same end result, either you see that the glass is half empty, or half filled. I try to keep such considerations short. You are free to enjoy the "best" headphone from the "best" source, if this helps you to keep some peace of mind.
> 
> ...


 
  Very nicely put. I just saw a very nice debate between Tyll Hertsens and Steve Guttenberg regarding the merits of subjective listening versus objective measurements. Anyhow I was kind of taken aback when Tyll described the HD800 as "They are too bright and dont have good bass response" 0:59:47. I have to say personally for me those words mean a lot because that is exactly how I have found the HD800's to be. So guy's as I see it the debate has been settled by non other than Tyll Hertsens the Guru of measurments and all things headphones. The link is as follows
  http://twit.tv/show/home-theater-geeks/133


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> I own the HE6's, LCD2.2's, T1's, and HD800's and saying any one is 'the best' is purely subjective.
> 
> I enjoy then all for what they do and don't consider any of then to have serious flaws.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Never thought about upgrading to the LCD-3s?


----------



## Solude

To be fair Tyll loves dark headphones and doesn't personally own any high or even mid level amps or sources.  Gets some review items to try and has a ton of headphones though.  Someone can correct me if I'm wrong though.
   
  Which is to say the HD800 sounds like what it's connected to.  Stello to B22... light bass, distant, dry and completely free of any dynamics.  W4S to Peak... only slightly thin, still dry, somewhat pushed back.  PWD2 to GS-X mk2... propulsive bass, liquid, slightly forward.
   
  So in my opinion if you don't like the HD800... don't make the same mistake I made, keep it and change the amp and source to tune it to where you want it.  Because I rolled tons of amps for the LCD-3 and sources, but it always sounds more or less like an LCD-3.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote: 





solude said:


> To be fair Tyll loves dark headphones and doesn't personally own any high or even mid level amps or sources.  Gets some review items to try and has a ton of headphones though.  Someone can correct me if I'm wrong though.
> 
> Which is to say the HD800 sounds like what it's connected to.  Stello to B22... light bass, distant, dry and completely free of any dynamics.  W4S to Peak... only slightly thin, still dry, somewhat pushed back.  PWD2 to GS-X mk2... propulsive bass, liquid, slightly forward.
> 
> So in my opinion if you don't like the HD800... don't make the same mistake I made, *keep it and change the amp and source to tune it to where you want it.*  Because I rolled tons of amps for the LCD-3 and sources, but it always sounds more or less like an LCD-3.


 
   
  I agree ^.
   
  But, just to clarify. IME, the Peak/Volcano easily had less bass (esp the lowest octaves) than the Beta22. I also think the HE6, LCD2 and by extension, LCD3, have more bass than the HD800. But, I've never found the Senns lacking and they remain my favourite headphones.


----------



## olor1n

Lol, Solude. You could've saved thousands by just employing EQ and DSP. Game's up guys. Our first hand accounts are invalid. Tyll said so.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





shahrose said:


> I agree ^.
> 
> But, just to clarify. IME, the Peak/Volcano easily had less bass (esp the lowest octaves) than the Beta22. I also think the HE6, LCD2 and by extension, LCD3, have more bass than the HD800. But, I've never found the Senns lacking and they remain my favorite headphones.


 
   
  Thanks Shah
   
  At least someones on my side..   
   
  Just a jab at Solude.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
   
  However, I still like the HE-6 on my F1J better.  Again, However  lol...  The HD800 is now my 2nd favorite headphone.  The LCD-3 is slowing declining..
   
  The last part is a jab at MacedonianHero


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Lol, Solude. You could've saved thousands by just employing EQ and DSP. Game's up guys. Our first hand accounts are invalid. Tyll said so.


 
  Going by Tyll's credentials I tend to regard his opinion highly. Cant find your website olor1n so as to find out how much experience you have in the audio/headphone business.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Lol, Solude. You could've saved thousands by just employing EQ and DSP.


 
   
  You can't EQ in smooth grain free treble or deep tight bass 
   
  Went looking over Tyll page to see if I could gleem what gear he uses... no luck.  But I did find a graph that compares measurements and the 'ideal' is an LCD-3 so... ya.


----------



## RedBull

I tried lcd3 on lehmann bcl, it sounds like am radio. The high roll off beyond my tolerance level. It may be good for general main stream music though, but I cant imagine enjoying classical music through lcd3?
How can a flagship have so much freq.imbalance?
What music do you think is the most suitable for lcd3?

On the contrary, almost 3 years since its release, I always bash hd800 tonality, overdampened bass, wongky sound, but after I listen classical thry 800, my opinion swing 180 degree. It's just magical!!! Not even electrostat come close (never heard stax with top notch amp tho).
The sound just floats, reverberation through walls are heard, magical!
I ordered one


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Never thought about upgrading to the LCD-3s?


 
   
  Thought about it yes but to be worthwile it would need to be significantly better than the LCD2.2's *and* better than the HE6's & HD800's to be worth the extra exspence for me.
  So far not really commited, but that may change.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





solude said:


> You can't EQ in smooth grain free treble or deep tight bass
> 
> Went looking over Tyll page to see if I could gleem what gear he uses... no luck.  But I did find a graph that compares measurements and the 'ideal' is an LCD-3 so... ya.


 
  Found this link for you :
   
  http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelity-september-2012-update
   
  Looks like tyll has a pretty good collection of amp to test the gear he gets. Never seen so many Amplifiers in one picture, and this seems to be his personal collection. That Cary audio amp looks really nice I have to say.


----------



## olor1n

zigy626 said:


> olor1n said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, Solude. You could've saved thousands by just employing EQ and DSP. Game's up guys. Our first hand accounts are invalid. Tyll said so.
> ...




With all due respect to Tyll, his take on the HD800, or any headphone, is hardly the last word. I'd wager he'd agree with this sentiment.

Fact of the matter is that there's always been a pattern in these threads where people complain of piercing treble or non existent bass. To those who've heard otherwise, it's quite evident what the root of the issue is (when it goes beyond mere preference).

I never said the HD800 had the "best" bass btw. I was merely trying to encourage you not to concede to the myth it lacks in that department.


----------



## TooPoor

Going twice! PS Audio DLIII... I know people in here have had experience with it. Presently considering the Concero and the DLIII,


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





redbull said:


> On the contrary, almost 3 years since its release, I always bash hd800 tonality, overdampened bass, wongky sound, but after I listen classical thry 800, my opinion swing 180 degree. It's just magical!!! Not even electrostat come close (never heard stax with top notch amp tho).
> The sound just floats, reverberation through walls are heard, magical!
> I ordered one


 
  Off   course ... I was allowed to try the hd800 on the store , where I bought them.
  They plugged it in a big amp, I forgot the model.
  So they've put classical cd.
  Perfect .... Soundstage, instrument separation or whatever.
  But I do not listen much to classical .
  I was used to some thumping bass I got on my iem, and I was hoping, that the hd800 would be able to bring some kind of "bass excitement", so that I could forget once for all my "mid fi" iems.
  So after  listening a while the classical cd, I thought it's impressive,   but couldn't stop  thinking where's da bass  either.
  So I insisted that the seller , let me try a techno cd.
  There were old titles playing  such like "what is love" from  Haddaway.
  I  was much less impressed. I  just thought it could be ok, at least compared to my other mid-fi headphone,  and that I  could just appreciate were the hd800 shine, so I  took them anyway.


----------



## jazzerdave

This is just a thought, but who did the build(s) on your B22 Solude?  I know preproman's is from AMB, but could there be some build choices (caps, resistors, wiring, etc.) that make it so you two are really not comparing the same amps?


----------



## RedBull

extrabigmehdi said:


> Off   course ... I was allowed to try the hd800 on the store , where I bought them.
> They plugged it in a big amp, I forgot the model.
> So they've put classical cd.
> Perfect .... Soundstage, instrument separation or whatever.
> ...




Yes, for Linkin Park, lcd2 is the one!! But I am not happy listening Kevin Kern through lcd2, it's just not enough air in the room, kinda a bit suffocated. When I switch to hd800 or even ad700, aaahhhh, what a breezeee, like someone suddendy turn on the aircon or open the window.
Both are excellent at specific music.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> This is just a thought, but who did the build(s) on your B22 Solude?  I know preproman's is from AMB, but could there be some build choices (caps, resistors, wiring, etc.) that make it so you two are really not comparing the same amps?


 
   
  Prep is a YBM man, my first one was a Nugget Audio with black velvet pot and the second from SolderWorks with a TKD.  The B22 isn't a bad amp, it's just not top of the food chain especially for high impedance headphones and pre-amp use.  I considered adding some 50ohm resistors in parallel to put the mosfets back into their linear range but I just don't care that much.  GS-X mk2 is perfect right out of the box so... I'm done.  Kids can enjoy the B22, they're too young to care at 4 and 6


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> This is just a thought, but who did the build(s) on your B22 Solude?  I know preproman's is from *AMB*, but could there be some build choices (caps, resistors, wiring, etc.) that make it so you two are really not comparing the same amps?


 
   
   
  All the B22s are AMB designs.  But YBM was the professional builder of my B22.  SWA is a beast as well.
   
  I try to upgrade parts where I can.  I also do nothing but fully balanced (4 channels (boards))  No pre amp function just headphone use only.  No SE inputs or outputs Just balanced in and balanced out.
   
  Your absolutely right jazzerdave.  There's a chance that all B22 builds are different in some way.
   
  Mines certainly does give me world class bass.  
   
  The GS-X  has the loop out that makes comparing amps really easy.  Using bass sweeps with the same headphone and the same source, it's pretty evident the B22 can go lower with more quantity.  Quality is a different story.  In my rigs.  It also beat out the BHA-1 and the Mjolnir..  Yes I had them in house for side by side.  I owned the BHA-1.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Yes, for Linkin Park, lcd2 is the one!! But I am not happy listening Kevin Kern through lcd2, it's just not enough air in the room, kinda a bit suffocated. When I switch to hd800 or even ad700, aaahhhh, what a breezeee, like someone suddendy turn on the aircon or open the window.
> Both are excellent at specific music.


 
   
  I don't know, I just prefer HD800 for everything, including black metal (and Linkin park ,-) ), over LCD-2... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  (I actually bought LCD-2 first because people keep telling that HD800 are unbearable for modern music... silly me)


----------



## jazzerdave

preproman said:


> All the B22s are AMB designs.  But YBM was the professional builder of my B22.  SWA is a beast as well.
> 
> I try to upgrade parts where I can.  I also do nothing but fully balanced (4 channels (boards))  No pre amp function just headphone use only.  No SE inputs or outputs Just balanced in and balanced out.
> 
> ...




I switched around my acronyms again. I have no idea why I switched up AMB and YBM, but it's no surprise to me - I do that type of thing far too often.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Looks like tyll has a pretty good collection of amp to test the gear he gets.


 
   
  Keep in mind the amps Tyll gets in are review samples and other people's personal amps that are in to be measured.  Tyll isn't Bruce Wayne, IF is his job.  Case in point Tyll loves the 009 but has said many times he can't personally afford the rig.


----------



## Cante Ista

I think Tyll does like darker phones. Also I wonder what music he prefers. I think HD800 is awesome for classical, but I am not sure that I would pick it for majority of rock -- especially for the basic guitars, bass drums and singer set up, where you do not need a microscope to get a good sense of the music. I am not saying that rock does not require decent headphones, but rather that the strengths of the HD800 are easily overlooked listening to that type of music. BTW, the 800 are my go to for classical but HE6 for electronica and my sparse rock sessions of pink floyd and/or radiohead when I am in the mood. 
   
  Just wonna add that I have tons of respect for Tyll and have agreed with many many times -- more so than any other reviewer I have followed. However, he is not an oracle and everyone should just trust their ears. If you like a can, enjoy it! If you don't, drop it.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





redbull said:


> On the contrary, almost 3 years since its release, I always bash hd800 tonality, overdampened bass, wongky sound, but after I listen classical thry 800, my opinion swing 180 degree. It's just magical!!! Not even electrostat come close (never heard stax with top notch amp tho).
> The sound just floats, reverberation through walls are heard, magical!
> I ordered one


 
  I think its over 4 years now since it was released. 4 year and 3 months to be exact 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I love classical with these. Theres nothing that I've heard comes close. The dynamics are so fast, nothing is missed. There is a real sense of realism. Shut your eyes, lie back and you just sink into the soundstage. Nothing sounds artificial or emphasized. At times I really think I could be sitting in the audience at a concert. 
   
  Congrats in ordering one! For me its the best hifi purchase I've made yet.


----------



## palmfish

I listen to a lot of prog rock and for me, the HD800 is the first headphone articulate enough to not get a little congested in complex layered passages. Its upper bass and midrange clarity and detail where the lesser headphones Ive owned fall down.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I listen to a lot of prog rock and for me, the HD800 is the first headphone articulate enough to not get a little congested in complex layered passages. Its upper bass and midrange clarity and detail where the lesser headphones Ive owned fall down.


 
  Yeah, that pretty much sums up what I hear too. I listen to 70s,80s rock/pop too (some ELP, Genesis, arena rock, Boston, Foreigner, Zepp),
  and that upper bass / lower mids region that can get congested or tubby is clear as day on the 800s, better than live.


----------



## Happy Camper

electronic on the 6s are a treat


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I listen to a lot of prog rock and for me, the HD800 is the first headphone articulate enough to not get a little congested in complex layered passages. Its upper bass and midrange clarity and detail where the lesser headphones Ive owned fall down.


 
   
  Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> Yeah, that pretty much sums up what I hear too. I listen to 70s,80s rock/pop too (some ELP, Genesis, arena rock, Boston, Foreigner, Zepp),
> and that upper bass / lower mids region that can get congested or tubby is clear as day on the 800s, better than live.


 
  Huh, good to know. I have always associated LCD-3 with those genres. I wonder whether you two compared LCD-3 to HD800 and what your thoughts were. Thanks.


----------



## Solude

Mud and rock is a bad mix.  Just ends in a wall of sound where you wonder where your money went.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> Huh, good to know. I have always associated LCD-3 with those genres. I wonder whether you two compared LCD-3 to HD800 and what your thoughts were. Thanks.


 
  come to think of it, you guys listen in a way that does call for the 800 resolving abilities. I think some listen for other things in their music


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Precisely why I am in the subjectivist camp....I could care less what they measure. They sound great to me....


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





solude said:


> Mud and rock is a bad mix.  Just ends in a wall of sound where you wonder where your money went.


 
  That's what I think, but seems like others have a totally different experience. Audezes did seem to me like a wall of sound, but they are loved and I heard the 3s described as great retrievers of detail. go fig...


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> That's what I think, but seems like others have a totally different experience. Audezes did seem to me like a wall of sound, but they are loved and *I heard the 3s described as great retrievers of detail.* go fig...


 
   
  They can't touch the HE-6 and HD800s in that area.  IMO..


----------



## LugBug1

Must say that I love the LCD2's with Jazz. They have a nice warm intimate sound that is great with piano trio's and the like. I havent missed them as much as I thought I would though, as the HD800's bigger- sharper picture with this sort of music is also very pleasing.


----------



## palmfish

cante ista said:


> That's what I think, but seems like others have a totally different experience. Audezes did seem to me like a wall of sound, but they are loved and I heard the 3s described as great retrievers of detail. go fig...




Yup, I dont get it. The LCD-2 and LCD-3 are much loved around here, as well as the HE-500, but for me the detail isnt there. Ive listened extensively and/or owned them and with most of the music I listen too, they sound thick and cloudy in the middle. I think its just personal preference - some people like lush and warm sound and some like articulate and detailed.



preproman said:


> They can't touch the HE-6 and HD800s in that area.  IMO..




Ive been wanting to hear the HE-6 for a while now but we havent crossed paths yet.

I went to Magnolia AV today and auditioned all of the headphones they have displayed on their wall. I was curious to finally hear the Denon D600 (which turned out to be a disappointment as expected). K550, Momentums, A900x were also disappointing. The biggest surprise for me was the least expensive headphone on the wall - the HD 558! A bit grainy and not as open sounding as the HD 800 (from memory), but very very similar freq response and delivery. For the price one can get them for, they are an excellent affordable "back up" I think. Im going to buy a pair just to keep in my cabinet for a rainy day...


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





solude said:


> Keep in mind the amps Tyll gets in are review samples and other people's personal amps that are in to be measured.  Tyll isn't Bruce Wayne, IF is his job.  Case in point Tyll loves the 009 but has said many times he can't personally afford the rig.


 
  Are you saying Tyll is poor and not worthy of passing judgement on the HD800 because he personally does not own a $3000 headphone amp to run it with? Since when did you have to own something to evaluate its performance or how it shapes up with other equipment?


----------



## Solude

No I'm not saying Tyll is poor or not worthy, that would be classism and that type of thing drives me nuts.  In all likely hood Tyll is wealthier than I am   All I said was Tyll prefers dark cans and as such likely built his rig around the LCD-3 and not the HD800.


----------



## Paganini Alfredo

I was going to sell the HD800s and just took them out of hibernation to make sure they worked and... sound better than I can ever remember. Did I not have my crack tube amp before? Sound is grand.


----------



## RedBull

rusta said:


> I don't know, I just prefer HD800 for everything, including black metal (and Linkin park ,-) ), over LCD-2...
> 
> (I actually bought LCD-2 first because people keep telling that HD800 are unbearable for modern music... silly me)




Maybe I was wrong, lets see after I received it, maybe i can use it for something else than classical too.



lugbug1 said:


> I think its over 4 years now since it was released. 4 year and 3 months to be exact
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes, cant wait to get it now .........


----------



## rawrster

So I was looking at my headphone stand and noticed that there were some black flakes from the headband coming off. A similar thing happened with the pads before I got them replaced. My HD800 is pretty old and one of the earlier SN. I was wondering if anyone knew where to get a replacement or do I have to call the Sennheiser customer service for that?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





preproman said:


> They can't touch the HE-6 and HD800s in that area.  IMO..


 
  I would say that the HD800s have a touch more detail. But I'd rank the LCD-3s over the HE-6s in that regard, but to get them to really open up between 75-84dB is ideal. But both were very, very good IMO when I owned both.


----------



## struggles

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I would say that the HD800s have a touch more detail. But I'd rank the LCD-3s over the HE-6s in that regard, but to get them to really open up between 75-84dB is ideal. But both were very, very good IMO when I owned both.


 
  Which had more impact?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





struggles said:


> Which had more impact?


 
  I would rank them: LCD-3 > HD800 a wee bit more than the HE-6s (but basically around the same).


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





struggles said:


> Which had more impact?


 
   
  The impact on the HE-6 scales higher than any other headphone out there  IMO


----------



## struggles

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I would rank them: LCD-3 > HD800 a wee bit more than the HE-6s (but basically around the same).


 
   
  Thank you for this, out of curiosity, regarding impact at normal listening levels, how would you rate your SR-009's in comparison to the dynamics you mentioned?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





struggles said:


> Thank you for this, out of curiosity, regarding impact at normal listening levels, how would you rate your SR-009's in comparison to the dynamics you mentioned?


 
  The SR-009s are a whole different ball game. The SR-009s can bring the bass when the recording calls for it and while they have a bit less "impact" than my LCD-3s, they do have more than either the HD800s or HE-6s. Texture, control, detail, depth, you name it, the SR-009s win hands down (and not just the bass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
   
  If you want even more bass, then the TH-900s might be another option?


----------



## struggles

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> The SR-009s are a whole different ball game. The SR-009s can bring the bass when the recording calls for it and while they have a bit less "impact" than my LCD-3s, they do have more than either the HD800s or HE-6s. Texture, control, detail, depth, you name it, the SR-009s win hands down (and not just the bass
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Appreciate your input from direct experience. I did own the TH900's for about 2 weeks on an m903. the setup was nice but not for me. I am about to get my feet wet on this end so trying to gather some input.
  Quote: 





preproman said:


> The impact on the HE-6 scales higher than any other headphone out there  IMO


 
  Sorry I missed this, a little intoxicated, this was the impression I had from users here who had invested in the HE-6.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





struggles said:


> Appreciate your input from direct experience. I did own the TH900's for about 2 weeks on an m903. the setup was nice but not for me. I am about to get my feet wet on this end so trying to gather some input.
> *Sorry I missed this, a little intoxicated, this was the impression I had from users here who had invested in the HE-6.*


 
  my experience 100%
   
  My ranking:
  Sound staging: HD800>HE6>LCD3
   
  For impact: HE6>HD800>LCD3
   
  For detail, I actually think that HD800 only wins out because of its larger sound stage which gives a bigger field to separate sounds (more space between them) it they are easier to isolate different sounds. However, I think HE6 and HD800 are neck 'n' neck as far are ability to retrieve detail. It is just easier to perceive on the hd800 - if that makes sense.
  I should add that I do not own LCD3 but heard it on few occasions. I am willing to have my mind changed, but for now, that's how I feel


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> my experience 100%
> 
> My ranking:
> Sound staging: HD800>HE6>LCD3
> ...


 
   
  +1 agreed 100%


----------



## drez

Wondering what you think about speed with HD800 vs HE6.  With my AGD Master6 amp HD800 was significantly faster and more composed, and had greater dynamic contrast.  My guess is the Master6 is not a good match for the HE6, and hat it simply needed a power amplifier.  In that regard I am kind of sad that I may have never heard the HE6 at its best.


----------



## preproman

That's the problem with that headphone.  The scale and get better while doing it.


----------



## rawrster

It is good in a sense that it keeps getting better as the gear gets better but I do wish sometimes that the gear I had now was as good as it gets. The HE6 is the hardest to drive headphone I've owned. If I already had speakers then it wouldn't be bad since I would just be able to see if those amps would work with the HE6 or not. However since I don't I wanted minimal space since most speaker amps are quite large (there are exceptions of course like those virtue amps among others) I just ended up with the mini X amp I have now. That's probably where I will max out with the HE6 for the next few years at least.


----------



## nigeljames

I find that both the HD800 and HE6 are very fast with the Master-6, certainly have to issues in that department or in the dynamics of any of my phones.
  Sometimes the dynamics are quite scary.
   
  ATM I don't find the HD800's are faster although they might seem that way at times due to a leaner tonal balance. I would say though that the HE6's are running balanced with a silver cable which is much better and much faster sounding thans stock, where as the HD800's are currently running single ended via stock cable.
  I have balanced Toxic Silver Widow cables ordered for the HE6's, HD800's & LCD2.2's so my perception may change in the near future.


----------



## rawrster

So I ordered a replacement headband pad today. It came out to around $40 shipped. I'm pretty surprised at the costs really as well as when I ordered spare earpads. The prices are lower than what I would have expected although welcomed 
   
  I guess after a few  years the headband pad and the earpads have to replaced due to flaking.


----------



## palmfish

How much are the earpads?

Also, regarding the HD800 vs. HE-6, its been my experience (HE-400, 500, 5LE) that the HiFiMAN headphones "come alive" only at louder volumes. Is this the case with the HE-6? I listen at lower volumes and find the HD800 very good at all listening levels.


----------



## rawrster

I can't remember how much they were but I think they were around 70 or 80. It's still expensive but less than how much headroom had them priced at. 
   
  Actually I just did a quick search in my email and it was 73.27


----------



## NightFlight

operakid said:


> Such wisdom!  I have been in the high end industry 3 decades and I have heard this only a handful of times from end users.  For a fact much "perceived break in" is in actuality this factor!  I have seen folks go from one piece of equip to a much brighter one that was reviewed positively and hear them say, "well, it's bright, but it will break in".  Weeks later when I've visited them I've asked "how is it" only to always hear "much better, really nice now".  I then swap in the original, let them listen, then swap in the new, and they say "Oh, that's bright"!
> 
> Yes, the ears adjust, and this is a big part of the "break in game" as I call it.
> 
> ...




HD800s do break in. I broke mine in, in their box for days. Check for 30 seconds every day or so until smooths out. Admitedly my whole chain was breaking in at the time, so the HPs were just part of the break in process.


----------



## palmfish

With tube gear, an argument could be made that they are "breaking in" throughout their entire lifespan. One could also say that every tube (within the same model/production run) will have production variation.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> HD800s do break in. I broke mine in, in their box for days. Check for 30 seconds every day or so until smooths out. Admitedly my whole chain was breaking in at the time, so the HPs were just part of the break in process.


 
  It's just the coué method. Just repeat in your head before sleeping : "Every day, in every way, the more I burn my gear, the more it sounds  better".
 I'd swear it's a night and day difference.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> It's just the coué method. Just repeat in your head before sleeping : "Every day, in every way, the more I burn my gear, the more it sounds  better".
> I'd swear it's a night and day difference.


 
   
  Because you can't claim 'brain burn in' when he only listens 30 seconds a day? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Love how the sceptics change the reasoning of their 'logic' to fit their hatred of the fact that other people can sometimes hear things they themselves cannot. Carry on. 
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> HD800s do break in. I broke mine in, in their box for days. Check for 30 seconds every day or so until smooths out. Admitedly my whole chain was breaking in at the time, so the HPs were just part of the break in process.


 

 My new pair was offensively bright out of the box, nothing like refurbished pair I had before, in fact it was so bad I didn't even bother listening them on that day, just pink noised them overnight and viola, no more screws into ears treble, smooth as a butter.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> My new pair was offensively bright out of the box, nothing like refurbished pair I had before, in fact it was so bad I didn't even bother listening them on that day, just pink noised them overnight and viola, no more screws into ears treble, smooth as a butter.


 

 Great. But you might have just adjusted better the headphone position on head, which impacts to some extent the sound.
  So that's still not obvious.


----------



## LugBug1

I do believe in burn in. But the only thing that I can say may have changed with my now 3 week old Senn's, is the soundstage. It does seem to be wider now than it was straight out the box. I know this because I compared my K701's and they were wider at the time. But not now. The HD800's for me have shown the least burn in difference in comparison to pretty much all my other quality hp's that I've bought brand new. Makes me wonder if they do go through some sort of burn in process at the factory.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Great. But you might have just adjusted better the headphone position on head, which impacts to some extent the sound.


 
   
  Actually one of the strengths of the HD800 is that it doesn't change depending on position.  Within reason obviously.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





solude said:


> Actually one of the strengths of the HD800 is that it doesn't change depending on position.  Within reason obviously.


 
  It's no too much sensitive, but still enough to take care of headphone position.
  If you look at the gray curves from innerfidelity, you see  that  the biggest variations are in the treble region:


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Great. But you might have just adjusted better the headphone position on head, which impacts to some extent the sound.
> So that's still not obvious.


 

 The only way to verify that is to have fresh, just out of shrink wrap pair blindly tested against burned in pair.
  But why bother, this is not cable, burn in is free and inevitable whether you want it or not, unless you bought them just as a desk decoration.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> The only way to verify that is to have fresh, just out of shrink wrap pair blindly tested against burned in pair.
> But why bother, this is not cable, burn in is free and inevitable whether you want it or not, unless you bought them just as a desk decoration.


 
  Wouldn't it suck if you liked the non-burned-in ones better?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  You'd have to buy new ones every few weeks just to keep the sound you liked...


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I do believe in burn in. But the only thing that I can say may have changed with my now 3 week old Senn's, is the soundstage. It does seem to be wider now than it was straight out the box. I know this because I compared my K701's and they were wider at the time. But not now. The HD800's for me have shown the least burn in difference in comparison to pretty much all my other quality hp's that I've bought brand new. Makes me wonder if they do go through some sort of burn in process at the factory.


 
   
  Interesting... I have never experienced burn-in with any headphones/amp/DAC/whatever before getting HD800. Soundstage is the same for me but that slight sibilance with female voices was gone after several days


----------



## zigy626

Have had the HD800 for about 2 weeks now and cant say I hear any sign of burn-in. But I have experienced  burn-in with other headphones especially the HD650, it was a different headphone after about 200hrs.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> It's no too much sensitive, but still enough to take care of headphone position.
> If you look at the gray curves from innerfidelity, you see  that  the biggest variations are in the treble region:


 
   
  Look closer.  The curve stays the same, the dB changes scaling up or down but the same curve.  If you read the IF review Tyll mentions it.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





solude said:


> Look closer.  The curve stays the same, the dB changes scaling up or down but the same curve.  If you read the IF review Tyll mentions it.


 

 I  notice a difference , without using such measurements.
  And I'm not the only one, if you read a bit that thread:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/476161/hd800-driver-positioning-suggestions
   
  I don't trust too much Tyll reviews, he bashed the srh940 ; which is a crime , considering how good they are for the price.


----------



## Solude

What can I say, old truths die hard.  Most dynamics are cones and centre shot... moving the sweet spot changes the sound.  HD800 are a ring, no middle, sound arrives like a ring of smoke, no point source.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





solude said:


> What can I say, old truths die hard.  Most dynamics are cones and centre shot... moving the sweet spot changes the sound.  HD800 are a ring, no middle, sound arrives like a ring of smoke, no point source.


 
  Oh crap!! You mean they are blowing smoke in my ear!!  So that's what I was smelling 'er' hearing???....


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





solude said:


> What can I say, old truths die hard.  Most dynamics are cones and centre shot... moving the sweet spot changes the sound.  HD800 are a ring, no middle, sound arrives like a ring of smoke, no point source.


 
  You could actually put your ear on the side of the ring, considering that  the pads are much bigger than the drivers.
  There's some tolerance, but if your ear is not well placed , it sounds  worse.
  Should I re-use the weak argument from Bourneperfect :
  "Love how the sceptics change the reasoning of their 'logic' to fit their hatred of the fact that other people can sometimes hear things they themselves cannot. "
  It actually works in both ways, depending of people raving or criticizing.


----------



## BournePerfect

extrabigmehdi said:


> You could actually put your ear on the side of the ring, considering that  the pads are much bigger than the drivers.
> There's some tolerance, but if your ear is not well placed , it sounds  worse.
> Should I re-use the weak argument from Bourneperfect :
> "Love how the sceptics change the reasoning of their 'logic' to fit their hatred of the fact that other people can sometimes hear things they themselves cannot. "
> It actually works in both ways, depending of people raving or criticizing.




Agreed-except you provided 2 weak unrelated arguments to support your criticisms, while I said nothing 'raving' to support the other side. Sorry, but reading comprehension is apparently my forte today, not yours. Bummer cuz I thought we could have an intelligent conversation there for a moment.

In other news, I did find all 3 of my HD 800s to improve with burn in- but not nearly to the degree of my K702, Pro 900, or Pro 2900.

-Daniel


----------



## Solude

Pads have 60mm openings, ring is 56mm.  That's a 2mm or 0.08in gap from driver to pad per side.  If you look at every other freq graph on IF the pattern is clear.  HD800 holds its freq resp, dynamics based on cones don't.  For example, Senn's own HD600 freq resp can vary by as much as 10dB based on position.  All that to say the variance from positioning is so small... the level of caffeine in your system will alter the freq resp more than position will


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





solude said:


> All that to say the variance from positioning is so small... the level of caffeine in your system will alter the freq resp more than position will


 
  I notice a non-negligible difference, when I stick ear on side (either if it's too  ahead / back, or depending of headband height).
  And I'm not convinced regarding your argument regarding the graph: it's not a scaling up or down of the same curve.
  It's look a bit messed up, but there are clear parts were you can see that shape of curve vary.
  Especially near 8khz/9khz, the difference of curve is obvious.


----------



## ericfarrell85

This headphone, when properly amped, is the only headphone that allows me to put aside my impression that Stax simply trounces every other headphone when it comes to transparency. The HD800 really just disappears when driven by a Zana Deux > Beta 22. What makes it stunning is not so much the detail that it extracts, but the way it's liquid in its frequency transitions. Unlike a properly driven HE6 and T1, the HD800 does not jump out at you with unrelenting clarity, but weaves it into a natural, effortless soundscape. Funny how I once felt a little cold about this headphone...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





ericfarrell85 said:


> This headphone, when properly amped, is the only headphone that allows me to put aside my impression that Stax simply trounces every other headphone when it comes to transparency. The HD800 really just disappears when driven by a Zana Deux > Beta 22. What makes it stunning is not so much the detail that it extracts, but the way it's liquid in its frequency transitions. Unlike a properly driven HE6 and T1, the HD800 does not jump out at you with unrelenting clarity, but weaves it into a natural, effortless soundscape. Funny how I once felt a little cold about this headphone...


 
   
   
  +1 
   
  totally agree
   
  i feel the same way with the HD 800 and the right tubes on the WA6-SE, when its not well driven, its liquidity becomes muddy, smearing details while having a hotness in the treble. the soundstage may seem artificial and forced, and its presentation lifeless in nature. 
   
  with the right tubes, i agree,  the headphones just disappear, the music is all around you, as if it was just coming out of thin air, and its liquidity is something that i begin to appreciate more and more, the music just blends so perfectly together, its something quite unique to the HD 800, i haven't heard another headphone that does it so perfectly. its not super detailed or fast like a T1, or warm and full like an Audeze, its just the liquid decay which adds an extra texture to the music.


----------



## ericfarrell85

Yeah, it's really something isn't it.


----------



## PleasantSounds

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> I don't remember reading anyone trying the WA7... anyone try it with the HD800s??


 
   
  I have just tried this combo and to me it sounded fantastic. The soundstage is maybe somewhat less precise than on some higher end amps, but the tonality is just perfect. The sound is delicate, effortless and precise. The bass is rich, deep and well controlled, mids quite smooth. Treble has no signs of harshness. I have noticed some sibilance, but that may well be the source material. 
   
  If there's enough interest in this combo, I can put together a more detailed review.


----------



## toschek

dubstep girl said:


> +1
> 
> totally agree
> 
> ...




+1 to your plus 1

Ever since I upgraded to the Cary SLI 80 and retubed and biased it properly, even with the Lyr standing in on DAC duty I simply can't stop listening or daydreaming about listening when I get home. Putting on the HD800s, turning on a mild crossfeed and firing up some Hesperion XXI has been my go to stress relief after work. All the technology just evaporates and if I close my eyes I'm in an audience hearing troubadours play in a French castle 700 years ago.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Quote:
> +1 to your plus 1
> 
> Ever since I upgraded to the Cary SLI 80 and retubed and biased it properly, even with the Lyr standing in on DAC duty I simply can't stop listening or daydreaming about listening when I get home. Putting on the HD800s, turning on a mild crossfeed and firing up some Hesperion XXI has been my go to stress relief after work. All the technology just evaporates and if I close my eyes I'm in an audience hearing troubadours play in a French castle 700 years ago.


 
  Sweet visual!


----------



## rgs9200m

Do the HD800 pads lose some cushioning after time? I've been using mine a great deal and they seem a little flatter and less cushioned on my temples, but I'm not sure if I'm imagining things. 
   
  Did anyone ever replace the pads with new ones?
   
  (They get so much head time because they sound so awesome to me, so awesome I think I like them more than speakers.)


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





ericfarrell85 said:


> This headphone, when properly amped, is the only headphone that allows me to put aside my impression that Stax simply trounces every other headphone when it comes to transparency. The HD800 really just disappears when driven by a Zana Deux > Beta 22. What makes it stunning is not so much the detail that it extracts, but the way it's liquid in its frequency transitions. Unlike a properly driven HE6 and T1, the HD800 does not jump out at you with unrelenting clarity, but weaves it into a natural, effortless soundscape. Funny how I once felt a little cold about this headphone...


 
  Very well written and that's exactly how I feel.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> Do the HD800 pads lose some cushioning after time? I've been using mine a great deal and they seem a little flatter and less cushioned on my temples, but I'm not sure if I'm imagining things.
> 
> Did anyone ever replace the pads with new ones?
> 
> (They get so much head time because they sound so awesome to me, so awesome I think I like them more than speakers.)


 
   
  I bought mine used and yes, I replaced the earpads (not too difficult but far from the simplest replacement I've done).  It made a small but noticeable improvement to the comfort.


----------



## rgs9200m

Thanks for the quick answer Jazzerdave. Yeah, I'm all thumbs and wondering if it's really difficult. There's a youtube vid about removing them but not about putting them on.
  Best to you.


----------



## jackskelly

I took my HD 800's to work today to show it to some fellow co-workers (with my MacBook Pro & Apple Lossless files via my Nuforce DAC-100), everyone who heard it was quite impressed, but the reactions were interesting. Hopefully I've helped spread the gospel of good quality sound somewhat. I noticed that people in general listened to it way too loud. I had to explain that these were not like "normal" headphones, in that people around you can hear the music if you turn it up to a listenable volume. The sound from headphones of this quality is so crisp that laypeople (and audiophiles) are tempted to turn the volume way up, past the point of damaging one's hearing if left on (full throttle) for bit. The main response I got from the HD 800's was "The music sounds very clear."


----------



## BournePerfect

One of my favorite aspects of the HD 800 is that I hear all of their amazing qualities at lower volume levels. I couldn't say the same for a lot of cans, most especially the T1s.

-Daniel


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> Thanks for the quick answer Jazzerdave. Yeah, I'm all thumbs and wondering if it's really difficult. There's a youtube vid about removing them but not about putting them on.
> Best to you.


 
   
  Taking them off is much harder than putting them on at least until you realize how it works. I thought I broke something when I took off the pads since I took off the padding and not the plastic ring thing the pads go over. If I remember correctly once you take off the pads take the new one and put it over where it would go and press until there's a loud click. It does that a few times as you go around the pads.


----------



## fhuang

i think the menu comes with the headphones has some instruction on taking off/on the ear pad.  hand band too.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> Taking them off is much harder than putting them on at least until you realize how it works. I thought I broke something when I took off the pads since I took off the padding and not the plastic ring thing the pads go over. If I remember correctly once you take off the pads take the new one and put it over where it would go and press until there's a loud click. It does that a few times as you go around the pads.


 
  OK, great. Thanks again for those details. Best to you.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> One of my favorite aspects of the HD 800 is that I hear all of their amazing qualities at lower volume levels. I couldn't say the same for a lot of cans, most especially the T1s.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  Totally agree. You can still feel the music at lower volumes.


----------



## silversurfer616

Where can I buy those pads?Ordered some from a company in England only to be charged $80.- and then to be told they are on backorder!!!!
  Ok,....I got a refund since then but I do need some new ones.


----------



## moses1258

Greeting Fellow Head-fi'ers!
   
  I am looking for a new amp for my HD800's and have narrowed it down to about two choices with a couple of outside contenders.  Currently I'm running my Oppo BDP-105 into a Woo Audio 3 to my Senn's.
   
  After much deliberation I've narrowed it down to the Woo Audio WA2 and the Decware CSP2+.
   
  My criteria include the following:
  1, Tube/OTL topology
  2. Preamp functionality.
  3. Price somewhere between $1k and $1.5 K
  4. Aesthetically pleasing
   
  The pros and cons of each amp:
   
  Woo Audio WA2
  Pros
  *I like my WA3 and feel like it would be a significant upgrade to go to the WA2
  *Very good looking
  *Tube sound to roll off some of the upper end brittleness of the HD800's
  *Good price, but the tube rolling may push this amp to the upper end of my price range
  Cons
  *Not as detailed as some of the upper end amps (I love detail)
  *I've never heard the amp, but am familiar with the Woo house sound with the WA3
  *Maybe too warm?
   
  Decware CSP2+
  Pros
  *Very competitive price
  *On paper looks very compelling
  *Seems like excellent preamp functionality
  Cons
  *Have not heard it although Steve has a 30-day money back guarantee
  *Not as good looking as the Woo
  *Will the top-mounted everything but a strain on my interconnects?
   
  Also, two other contenders are the Eddie Current Super 7 and the Decware Taboo.  My major problem with the Super 7 is how it looks.  Just a black box with tubes sticking out.  Not very good looking at all, in my opinion.  With the Taboo, I'm worried that since Steve has a picture of the Taboo with planar magnetics, that amp may sound too "solid-state".  It's been my experience that the LCD's and the Hifiman's sound better with SS amps, but the 800's respond better to tubes.
   
  So, there you have it--my current conundrum.  I'd love to hear from anybody that has heard these amps.  I went to Canjam last year, but none of the Eddie Current or Decware offerings were available to listen to.
   
  Any help you could give would be appreciated.
   
  Over and out.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

woo audio 2


----------



## paradoxper

Easily pick the Super 7 (though agreed, it's butt ugly), or CSP2.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





moses1258 said:


> Greeting Fellow Head-fi'ers!
> 
> I am looking for a new amp for my HD800's and have narrowed it down to about two choices with a couple of outside contenders.  Currently I'm running my Oppo BDP-105 into a Woo Audio 3 to my Senn's.
> 
> ...


 
  The new Taboo Mk 111 is excellent with the HD800 and so is the CSP2. If you want to use balanced headphones and will also use planar in the future the Taboo Mk111 fits the bill. My review will be done shortly


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Had the WA2 in the past and have the Super 7 now. IMO, the Super 7 finds the perfect balance between speed/detail and warmth/tone. The WA2 can get close with careful tube selection, but ultimately it's personality is on the lush side.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





moses1258 said:


> Greeting Fellow Head-fi'ers!
> 
> I am looking for a new amp for my HD800's and have narrowed it down to about two choices with a couple of outside contenders.  Currently I'm running my Oppo BDP-105 into a Woo Audio 3 to my Senn's.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Since I don't own them, I won't comment too much on the Woo and EC amps except to say that I've heard them both with the HD800, and think they're fine options.  I do however own the CSP2+ and think it's an excellent option.
   
  The CSP2+ can take a while to dial in as it has input and output level controls to adjust to the output of your source.  They can really come in handy and make the CSP2+ a better match for more sources (it's equally adept with a 1V iPod and my ~ 4V CD player).  The only real downsides to the preamp is that there's not many extra features (no loop out, only two inputs, etc.) and the switch between the two inputs is not in a convenient location.  It's my second favorite amp for the HD800 next to the Cavalli Liquid Glass, and I still can't convince myself to sell it even though I already own the Liquid Glass as well.
   
  I should also note that I think it can actually put less strain on your interconnects and definitely less strain on the female RCA jacks on the amp.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

The Woo amps I've heard in conjunction with the HD800 sounded rather dry to me. Blindfolded I wouldn't believe they were tube amps. But of course I've never owned a Woo nor rolled one extensively so just my 2c.
   
  I love the classic look of Decware amps. Just gorgeous especially when lit up. Sound quality of the CSP is better than it has to be at this price point. In fact I'd delay that S7 purchase if you haven't demoed a CSP yet (also the Taboo MKIII sounds promising... need to hear that one). At the Austin meet, the S7 was almost indistinguishably close to the CSP... really the main difference wasn't amp-related but having more to do with the source (Lavry D11 vs. Concero). I recommend spending the $500 difference on tubes and music for the CSP (or Taboo MKIII?) or kicking in more $$$ to demo the Zana Deux or even more $$$ for the Balancing Act if you're looking for an "obviously better" jump from the Eddie Current stable.


----------



## longbowbbs

Both the CSP2+ and the Taboo MK III are excellent with HD800's. The Taboo has both balanced and SE outputs.


----------



## negura

MYGOD! As soon as I got my pair #189xx I knew I had to be reporting in, and this is a few days later. My rig: USB -> Burson Conductor -> HD800
   
  Before I start let me say that I despise bright, thin, dry, crappy sounding headphones. For this reason, I started my proper journey with the HD650s and after a detour with the thin bright train wreck that the Beyer T1s were for me, I have only moved the way of warm sounding headphones.
   
  As of lately I was perfectly happy with Audeze LCD-2.5s in terms of pretty much everything, but as this hobby goes I have decided and given the HD800s a buy. In my mind having never listened to them before, I was expecting I will likely enjoy with the HD800s with classical and acoustic music where I didn't think the LCD-2 are particularly strong.
   
  What I had coming I didn't see. This is not a normal reaction for me towards new headphones, but I was blown away by the HD800s with pretty much anything ranging from Metal to Jazz to Classical music. The detail, the air, the sound stage, the dynamics and all those layers of pure clean music. If I was thinking of a single word to try to describe their sound, this must be it: EPIC. I was concerned about what some described about some lack of bass, but that's actually not the case at all. I reckon this must be related to downstream gear related for some. I actually have troubles going back to my LCD-2s for anything really... not sure if anyone experienced any similar?
   
  P.S.: Today I got the ANAX 1.0 in, and that solved the occasional issue with bright recordings and totally sealed the deal for me.


----------



## s4s4s4

Quote: 





negura said:


> MYGOD! As soon as I got my pair #189xx I knew I had to be reporting in, and this is a few days later. My rig: USB -> Burson Conductor -> HD800
> 
> Before I start let me say that I despise bright, thin, dry, crappy sounding headphones. For this reason, I started my proper journey with the HD650s and after a detour with the thin bright train wreck that the Beyer T1s were for me, I have only moved the way of warm sounding headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  Absolutely, exactly my experience. After all the reading I did just did not expect what I heard, pure music.


----------



## Solude

Exact same response on nearly the same rig.  No want or need for Anax here though.


----------



## philo50

Quote: 





solude said:


> Exact same response on nearly the same rig.  No want or need for Anax here though.


 
  +1


----------



## extrabigmehdi

.
  del - changed my mind


----------



## drez

Quote: 





negura said:


> MYGOD! As soon as I got my pair #189xx I knew I had to be reporting in, and this is a few days later. My rig: USB -> Burson Conductor -> HD800
> 
> Before I start let me say that I despise bright, thin, dry, crappy sounding headphones. For this reason, I started my proper journey with the HD650s and after a detour with the thin bright train wreck that the Beyer T1s were for me, I have only moved the way of warm sounding headphones.
> 
> ...


 
   
  HD800 has ruined me, only a few STAX can excite me, but they are way our of my budget.  LCD-2 has some interesting qualities but I don't have enough money to spend on interesting qualities.
   
  Pretty much everything can affect bass in upstream gear, and the HD800 will let you hear this.  Glad you are enjoying these headphones as much as I am.  I can't wait for the finalised Rabid Dog mods.


----------



## Landmantx

I am firmly in the Decware camp. I find that the ability to pick the wood base allows for some very interesting looks. I have now seen the Black Figured (Nicks) the Walnut (Jazzerdaves) and my new Cherry (FrankIs retired unit). It is a great amp for the money and can be used together with the TabooMK3 later on as I will soon be doing. Pictures don't do the white ceramic top justice. I also don't know if they are offering the CSP with the black top if you order new. As to sound quality, I can only comment that it is stunning. 
It's like trying to choose between awesome and awesome. Either way - You win!

Good luck!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> I am firmly in the Decware camp. I find that the ability to pick the wood base allows for some very interesting looks. I have now seen the Black Figured (Nicks) the Walnut (Jazzerdaves) and my new Cherry (FrankIs retired unit). It is a great amp for the money and can be used together with the TabooMK3 later on as I will soon be doing. Pictures don't do the white ceramic top justice. I also don't know if they are offering the CSP with the black top if you order new. As to sound quality, I can only comment that it is stunning.
> It's like trying to choose between awesome and awesome. Either way - You win!
> 
> Good luck!


 
  Looking good! I'll see your Cherry and raise you Maple!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> Had the WA2 in the past and have the Super 7 now. IMO, the Super 7 finds the perfect balance between speed/detail and warmth/tone. The WA2 can get close with careful tube selection, but ultimately it's personality is on the lush side.


 
   
  what tubes did you try in the WA2?


----------



## Landmantx

Ahhh, I am perpetually trailing you Eric. You will be bathing in the MK3's glory at least a full week ahead of me. My HD800s will not arive until around 4-20. At which point my jaw will probably become unhinged. I better make sure there is enough money in my HSA to cover a jaw re-attachment surgery prior to the 20th.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

dubstep girl said:


> what tubes did you try in the WA2?




I tube rolled pretty extensively with the WA2. It's been quite a while now, but I recall my favorite combination being Tung-Sol 7236, Amperex orange globe 7308 and stock rectifiers. Selling my first HD800 and my T1 made the WA2 expendable, though I wouldn't mind having one again now that I'm sticking with the Hd800.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> I tube rolled pretty extensively with the WA2. It's been quite a while now, but I recall my favorite combination being Tung-Sol 7236, Amperex orange globe 7308 and stock rectifiers. Selling my first HD800 and my T1 made the WA2 expendable, though I wouldn't mind having one again now that I'm sticking with the Hd800.


 
   
  oh ok.
   
  i like sylvania 7236 but i enjoy the 5998 more, never heard the ts 7236. i have JAN-Sylvania 7308 which shouldn't be too much worse from the amperex. after getting RFT-EZ80's, my HD 800 really opened up and now i absolutely love them with my WA2. transparent, yet smooth and able to listen to every genre with the HD 800 without them ever getting harsh or analytical.
   
  good to know the WA2 isn't too far off from Super 7 performance with the right tubes, i'm looking at getting some Siemens CCa or something as the finishing touches on my WA2 soon.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> oh ok.
> 
> i like sylvania 7236 but i enjoy the 5998 more, never heard the ts 7236. i have JAN-Sylvania 7308 which shouldn't be too much worse from the amperex. after getting RFT-EZ80's, my HD 800 really opened up and now i absolutely love them with my WA2. transparent, yet smooth and able to listen to every genre with the HD 800 without them ever getting harsh or analytical.
> 
> good to know the WA2 isn't too far off from Super 7 performance with the right tubes, i'm looking at getting some Siemens CCa or something as the finishing touches on my WA2 soon.


 
   
  I found the TS 7236 and TS 5998 to be quite similar. Personally, I never found rectifiers to make a big difference in this amp, but I admit that I only tried three different sets. The CCa are great -- grab some if you can for a reasonable price.
   
  I'd say the sound quality is the WA2 isn't far behind the S7 -- more of a preference issue than anything else. After running a Mapletree and a variety of Woo amps with my first HD800, I decided I wanted to go less lush and more detailed with my 2nd set.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> I found the TS 7236 and TS 5998 to be quite similar. Personally, I never found rectifiers to make a big difference in this amp, but I admit that I only tried three different sets. The CCa are great -- grab some if you can for a reasonable price.
> 
> I'd say the sound quality is the WA2 isn't far behind the S7 -- more of a preference issue than anything else. After running a Mapletree and a variety of Woo amps with my first HD800, I decided I wanted to go less lush and more detailed with my 2nd set.


 
   
  yeah rectifiers don't make a huge difference to me either. 
  my WA6-SE is my choice when i need less detail and more neutrality 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 in many ways, i find the WA6-SE to be better than the WA2 (in terms of accuracy and detail), but its not as sweet or lush like the WA2. i love both with the HD 800, but it took quite a bit of tube rolling to get it there for me, the woo amps were definitely made for tube rolling.


----------



## moses1258

Thanks to everyone who made an amp suggestion for my HD800's.  I will now sit and contemplate.


----------



## LugBug1

_'There once was a sheep called Flossy,_
_Who listened to files that were lossy,_
_Though the files were compressed,_
_They still sounded the best,_
_That's because she had the top of the range Sennheiser flagship HD800 headphones.' _


----------



## negura

Quote: 





drez said:


> HD800 has ruined me, only a few STAX can excite me, but they are way our of my budget.  LCD-2 has some interesting qualities but I don't have enough money to spend on interesting qualities.


 
   
  This is exactly where I am regarding LCD-2 vs HD800 right now. I agree there are several interesting qualities as you say, but the overall experience isn't a match to the HD800s. I will give it a few more days and see how it goes, then if nothing changes I might as well decide to sell my LCD-2s and continue wondering whether the LCD-3s are worthwhile in adding air, sound stage, detail and dynamics to improve the overall experience in these regards from the LCD-2s.
   
  All the occasional scaremongering I've read about the HD800 being too analytical, not "musical" enough, not enough bass etc.. I am hearing no evidence to support those claims. If analytical means detailed and micro-detailed, I will happily take all of that. Musical to me it's the actual sound of the recording and don't think I am fancying too much added coloration anymore, as I feel where it can works well sometimes, it's detracting from the experience with other recordings/genres.
   
   
   
 Quote: 





solude said:


> Exact same response on nearly the same rig.  No want or need for Anax here though.


 


drez said:


> Glad you are enjoying these headphones as much as I am.  I can't wait for the finalised Rabid Dog mods.


 

   

I've taken ANAX 1.0 out for now I didn't glue them so it was quite easy. I feel they affect the tonality of some instruments more than I would like. I am going to experiment with ANAX 2.0 this week-end as I've got plenty of materials left and I've heard it adds even less coloration. The recordings I have and that are recorded too bright, are bright even with the LCD-2s, but unfortunately there's a few of them and I enjoy those bands. This said and all considering, I am actually surprised that it's all not too bad with the HD800s in this aspect.


----------



## negura

. deleted


----------



## rawrster

My new headband came in today. I think I ordered them Monday or Tuesday so it came pretty fast. I'll change them later and no more flaking


----------



## silversurfer616

Where did you order it from,please?Thanks!


----------



## rawrster

I called Sennheiser USA to order it. If your profile is correct and in New Zealand I am not sure how that works since they may have agreements with dealers by you
   
   
  edit: I've gotten home and replaced the headband pads. My HD800 looks pretty new now. I got the pads replaced a few months ago and now the headband pads. The comfort is much better and the pads area isn't so squishy for lack of a better word and no flakes.


----------



## wink

Syntec International for Aus/NZ but they're a pain to find the parts in.
   
   
  This is the service website.
  http://service.syntec.com.au/
   
  They only have the earpads on the list.  May need th use the part request form, which is not much use if you don't know the part no.
  http://service.syntec.com.au/index.php?cPath=2142&osCsid=ddf046c311cfd376b62585beba651009


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





negura said:


> This is exactly where I am regarding LCD-2 vs HD800 right now. I agree there are several interesting qualities as you say, but the overall experience isn't a match to the HD800s. I will give it a few more days and see how it goes, then if nothing changes I might as well decide to sell my LCD-2s and continue wondering whether the LCD-3s are worthwhile in adding air, sound stage, detail and dynamics to improve the overall experience in these regards from the LCD-2s.


 
   
  i always wonder the same about the LCD-3.


----------



## myc

Is there any 3rd party earpads for this HD 800? I'm thinking something like JMoney pad for Denons... it can even increase bass performance on it.
   
  And.. what is speaker you would suggest, guys? For this HD 800 .. I mean.. to complement and bring the same presentation compared to qualities had on HD 800


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





myc said:


> Is there any 3rd party earpads for this HD 800? I'm thinking something like JMoney pad for Denons... it can even increase bass performance on it.
> 
> And.. *what is speaker you would suggest, guys? For this HD 800 .. I mean.. to complement and bring the same presentation compared to qualities had on HD 800 *


 
  +1 anyone heard speakers that approach hd800 imaging, etc?


----------



## toschek

I imagine they would be speakers in the second mortgage territory.  They don't let people that look like me into stores that sell speakers that could compete with HD800s.  Hell, they look at me funny when I window shop at Magnolia (.... and no, I'm not going to stuff those crummy 200lb M&L ESLs into my pockets and walk out of the store O_o ... I might take a bat to that poor McIntosh amp that has to play Taylor Swift through $8k speakers all day though.)


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





toschek said:


> I imagine they would be speakers in the second mortgage territory.  They don't let people that look like me into stores that sell speakers that could compete with HD800s.  Hell, they look at me funny when I window shop at Magnolia (.... and no, I'm not going to stuff those crummy 200lb M&L ESLs into my pockets and walk out of the store O_o ... I might take a bat to that poor McIntosh amp that has to play Taylor Swift through $8k speakers all day though.)


 






 I can relate to that


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> +1 anyone heard speakers that approach hd800 imaging, etc?


 
   
  Avantgardes
   
http://www.avantgarde-acoustic.com/trio-classico-product-en.html


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Avantgardes
> 
> http://www.avantgarde-acoustic.com/trio-classico-product-en.html


 
  You can buy 12 hd800 with these speakers.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote:


cante ista said:


> +1 anyone heard speakers that approach hd800 imaging, etc?


 
   
  Quote:


toschek said:


> I imagine they would be speakers in the second mortgage territory.  They don't let people that look like me into stores that sell speakers that could compete with HD800s.  Hell, they look at me funny when I window shop at Magnolia (.... and no, I'm not going to stuff those crummy 200lb M&L ESLs into my pockets and walk out of the store O_o ... I might take a bat to that poor McIntosh amp that has to play Taylor Swift through $8k speakers all day though.)


 
   
  Imaging is not too hard to match with speakers if you've got a decent room (too many intense reflections can ruin imaging though).  Bass reproduction and tactility will also be easy to beat. I haven't heard many halfway decent speakers that don't wipe the floor with the HD800 when it comes to soundstage.  Most of this is due to the inherent advantages speakers have over headphones.  Now, what the HD800's do that will often get you into the "second mortgage territory" for speakers is the transparency and detail.  The other big thing is finding speakers with either full-range single drivers or a well integrated crossover. 
   
  Oddly enough, the cheapest suggestion that I would give for this is a Martin Logan speaker, but it's the long discontinued Aerius i.  It was the smaller end of their range, and I don't think they've put out another hybrid since that matched the speed and transparency or integrated the panel with the woofer as well.  They were ~ $2500 when new and can usually be found used for $800-$1000. 
   
  I'd say some of the best options are electrostatic speakers from Kingsound and Sanders.


----------



## palmfish

Magnepan 3.7 if you have room for them


----------



## dallan

nick dangerous said:


> Avantgardes
> 
> http://www.avantgarde-acoustic.com/trio-classico-product-en.html





Omg! If ever a lotto winner..........my first purchase.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





dallan said:


> Omg! If ever a lotto winner..........my first purchase.


 
  B&W  nautilus looks better.


----------



## myc

Yes what I meant before is about detail, transparency and forgetting about everything (if there is headphone or speaker being used) .. just pure producing music.. I've read some good reviews on KEF LS50. Of course I'm not asking for the most expensive one.. there is no limit 
   
  Have you guys listened yourself to speakers that you recommend?


----------



## Nick Dangerous

I haven't heard the Avantagrdes, but between 2001-2005 I built a comparable DIY horn system with exotic AER drivers, dual 45 mesh tube monoblocks, Placette passive attenuator, etc... easily over $10k in parts alone. It embarrassed the very best systems I could find at every hi-fi shop in town. A well-implemented SET horn system placed in the right environment transcends speakers entirely. They don't sound "amazing", they sound "real". That's the closest example I can think of bringing the HD800 sound into the realm of speakers.
   
  I haven't been to RMAF yet but that's the best place I know to find speakers that could measure up.


----------



## jazzerdave

myc said:


> Yes what I meant before is about detail, transparency and forgetting about everything (if there is headphone or speaker being used) .. just pure producing music.. I've read some good reviews on KEF LS50. Of course I'm not asking for the most expensive one.. there is no limit
> 
> Have you guys listened yourself to speakers that you recommend?




I've heard everything I recommend or one of the similar products in a lineup. For instance, I recommended King sound and Sanders electrostatic speakers but have only heard one model from each of their lineups. Some of my impressions are from quick listens at RMAF or the local hifi shop while others are from more extensive listening.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> You can buy 12 hd800 with these speakers.


 
  They (the big Avantgarde horns) show up used a lot.  Keep looking on audiogon and you can get a very good price on a pair usually. They are great speakers and have and an almost classic status being (I estimate) over 12 years old. 
  I heard them at shows a few times over the last decade and was really impressed.


----------



## palmfish

The Magnepans are easily the most natural spacious sounding speakers I have ever heard that are actually affordable. I recommended the 3.7 but I havent heard them. I assume they possess the same qualities as the 3.6, which I have heard.


----------



## MorbidToaster

palmfish said:


> The Magnepans are easily the most natural spacious sounding speakers I have ever heard that are actually affordable. I recommended the 3.7 but I havent heard them. I assume they possess the same qualities as the 3.6, which I have heard.



My pick out of the suggestions. Maggie's are wonderful.



nick dangerous said:


> Avantgardes
> 
> http://www.avantgarde-acoustic.com/trio-classico-product-en.html




Gross. Love the way they look but haven't heard a pair in a system I liked.




extrabigmehdi said:


> B&W  nautilus looks better.




Too bad they're terrible. Almost every impression of this speakers I've read has been overwhelmingly negative.


----------



## ericfarrell85

Quote: 





moses1258 said:


> Greeting Fellow Head-fi'ers!
> 
> I am looking for a new amp for my HD800's and have narrowed it down to about two choices with a couple of outside contenders.  Currently I'm running my Oppo BDP-105 into a Woo Audio 3 to my Senn's.
> 
> ...


 
  Before doing any of that I would consider putting out a classified for a Zana Deux, which historically have gone for about $1500 or a little more (I got mine for $1200 with an Mullard ECC35 and have seen others go for below $1500). The Decware Taboo MKII was designed for lower impedances, particularly planars and you will have gain issues with the HD800, unless you add the CSP2+ as preamp (as a result moving past your budget). The Taboo MKIII, which is far more versatile will also run beyond your budget. I'm a big fan of the CSP2+ and its variable inputs/outputs are surprisingly useful (think HE6 > speaker amp), but I don't find it equals the Zana Deux if SQ is the sole criterion. The Zana is just such so anomalous for a tube amp (in some ways like the unfortunate Singlepowers of old), in that it plaits together the midrange goodness and ambiance recreation of a nice tube amp with the speed and tactility of a good solid state (though not so free of grain). 
   
  While I own the Taboo and CSP2+ I have not heard the Super 7 and so no comment there. The WA2, which I nearly sprung for a year ago I recall being on a similar plane with my T1's, which is to say it and the CSP2+ are the best I've heard the Beyers. I remember thinking I preferred the preamp of the CSP2+ and it's more restrained midrange, but it's been too long for any definite remarks.
   
  Eddie Current is among my favorite amp designers, and having owned the ECSS and Zana Deux, I have learned that when you buy from him you receive as an supplement an individual who stops short of nothing to help you, warranty or otherwise (though Decware's lifetime warranty is impossible to beat). The Zana also features a terrific preamp and multiple inputs, something seldom mentioned when talking about this amp. The only other amps which I have heard that improve on the Zana with the HD800 is the Balancing Act, GSX (v2.) or my chosen combination of Zana Deux > Beta 22.
   
  If I were in your shoes I would consider the other headphones you will be using with the amp you eventually decide upon. The HD650, AD2000 and TH900 are, for me, perfectly synergistic with the Zana Deux. My Beyer T1 is considerably better on the CSP2+ (in fact nothing sounds any less than good out of the CSP2+, but it doesn't invoke that "end game" titillation you get with the Zana). I think when you factor in the competition and your budget you have nothing to lose by checking if someone has an interest in selling one.


----------



## dallan

I second that.  I have listened to a lot of amps and few come close to the Zana Deux.  When i had the amps i wanted narrowed down, at a meet i literally ran back and forth comparing them and ones next to them and it was just no contest.  I have owned it for over four years now and it is the star of my system.  I am listening to it now still in total awe.  Unluckily when buying mine new the price had just jumped to $2200. and then i had to pay tax too since i am also in CA.....ouch.  I was also the first on the list for the next batch which ended up taking from Sept 08-Jan/Feb 09.  At least i was able to pick it up myself.  If you can find one used for under $1500. without a wait, I would jump on it.


----------



## pila405

How come there is such a big difference in the FR of balanced and unbalanced HD 800?


----------



## LugBug1

Might be a case of the amp used. Amps sound different through different outputs. But I wouldn't have thought that balanced would have produced less peaks?
   
  Dunno


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





pila405 said:


> How come there is such a big difference in the FR of balanced and unbalanced HD 800?


 
   
  Two different headphones, at two different times.  The original HD800 curve looked like the red curve but with slightly more bass if memory serves.


----------



## Solude

Memory was a little fuzzy apparently...


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





pila405 said:


> How come there is such a big difference in the FR of balanced and unbalanced HD 800?


 
  Or they just want to encourage the selling by presenting two different curve.
  I assume that  each curve is the averaging of multiple headphone position.


----------



## pila405

Quote: 





solude said:


> Memory was a little fuzzy apparently...


 
  So the early HD800s had less high-mids\treble than the later produced ones? :\


----------



## ValentinHogea

_nevermind..._


----------



## wink

Don't sweat it, just get it.   - The HD800 that is.


----------



## moses1258

Thanks EricFarrell85.  I've heard from several people that the Zana Deux is pretty much an end game amp for the HD800's.  Even Dubstep Girl, who seems to love her WA2 and WA6-SE, said the ZD would be the top of the line for the HD800's.  And boy, it definitely fits the bill when it comes to looks!  Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
   
  One thing, I've heard that the EC amps sound a bit solid state.  Is there still enough tubiness to roll off the edge of the HD800's?


----------



## ValentinHogea

Quote: 





moses1258 said:


> Thanks EricFarrell85.  I've heard from several people that the Zana Deux is pretty much an end game amp for the HD800's.  Even Dubstep Girl, who seems to love her WA2 and WA6-SE, said the ZD would be the top of the line for the HD800's.  And boy, it definitely fits the bill when it comes to looks!  Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
> 
> One thing, I've heard that the EC amps sound a bit solid state.  Is there still enough tubiness to roll off the edge of the HD800's?


 
  Why would one wish to roll off all the details hidden in the HD800? 
   
  Better dampen the cups. Best 10 USD-investment you'll ever make.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





moses1258 said:


> Thanks EricFarrell85.  I've heard from several people that the Zana Deux is pretty much an end game amp for the HD800's.  Even Dubstep Girl, who seems to love her WA2 and WA6-SE, said the ZD would be the top of the line for the HD800's.  And boy, it definitely fits the bill when it comes to looks!  Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
> 
> One thing, I've heard that the EC amps sound a bit solid state.  Is there still enough tubiness to roll off the edge of the HD800's?


 
   
  I've heard that about the Zana Deux (somewhat dry/analytical character) but not the Balancing Act.
   
  Rats. It's another $1000.


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





moses1258 said:


> One thing, I've heard that the EC amps sound a bit solid state.  Is there still enough tubiness to roll off the edge of the HD800's?


 
   
  I haven't listened to the HD800 with my Zana Deux SE yet (I soon will), but I don't agree that EC amps sound a bit solid state. What I can say is that they don't have the typical characteristic sound of tube amps in general. Woo Audio amps are known to sound tubey, which is either liked or disliked depending on what you listen to. Sure, people may look for lush and warm sounding tube amps to mellow out the harshness of the HD800. However, compared to true solid-state amps such as Burson Soloist, my ZDSE definitely smoothens sibilance in treble-hot music and makes listening more enjoyable and less fatiguing.
   
  I'm actually curious about the pairing of HD800 and ZDSE, which is why I decided to audition one soon. I've listened the HD800 with many other amps before but it didn't sound that particularly amazing. Of course the HD800 is a picky headphone and requires the right kind of amplification, and many have cited the Zana Deux SE as one of the best amps for it. In my opinion the ZDSE is the best single-ended headphone amp for low-impedance and high-sensitivity closed-back headphones, like my TH900. I heard that the HD800 scales even higher with balanced headphone amps, so I'm still a bit skeptical about how my much my ZDSE can harness the HD800's potential.


----------



## moses1258

Quote: 





valentinhogea said:


> Why would one wish to roll off all the details hidden in the HD800?
> 
> Better dampen the cups. Best 10 USD-investment you'll ever make.


 
  I really don't want to lose any details.  I like my Woo WA3, but feel I can move up the chain and get more focus.  It's just that I've tried several SS amps (Bryston, Musical Fidelity, Burson) and just thought the 800's were a little brittle with all those amps.
   
  I guess the term "lush" worries me a bit because it sounds like you're losing details.
   
  Also, I really don't want to mod my 800's.  'Fraid I don't want to cut these stellar headphones.


----------



## moses1258

Quote: 





valentinhogea said:


> Why would one wish to roll off all the details hidden in the HD800?
> 
> Better dampen the cups. Best 10 USD-investment you'll ever make.


 
  Sorry, that last post of mine was very rambling.
   
  Yes, I want details, but I also want some "musicality" which tube amps seem to provide.  I guess "warmness" is a good term, but "lushness" seems to mean less detail to me.  It's probably just semantics.
   
  I guess I'm worred if the ECZD sounds like it leans toward the SS sound, I will think my headphones sound edgy.  I have read several post on here that the ZD is a SS sounding amp.
   
  Anyway, thanks for your opinion.


----------



## silversurfer616

Have the HD800 with a WooA6 and balanced with a Phoenix and I prefer the latter.....don't ask me why,it is just my ears,system etc.!
  There is no harshness and plenty of bass with both amps but the Phoenix is ever so slightly more controlled and focused withouth losing musicality.


----------



## toschek

Moses -

You may want to look at the Cary SLI 80. It does amazing stuff with the HD800s (especially in triode mode), can be used with speakers and headphones (not concurrently) and has outputs which can be used for preamp duty or to feed a sub. It may not meet your aesthetic criteria, however my wife, who is extremely picky and style-conscious thinks it's beautiful and tells me it looks like a steampunk time machine.

Anyway, I love mine and they can be found for $1500-$1600 used if you are patient.


----------



## mink70

Hey, I'm considering an HD800 for sale on the forums. SS#14xxx. I know there have been some posts about potential production variation, and folks seem to ask about serial numbers. Is there any agreement on whether certain runs of the HD800 are better?


----------



## negura

Quote: 





mink70 said:


> Hey, I'm considering an HD800 for sale on the forums. SS#14xxx. I know there have been some posts about potential production variation, and folks seem to ask about serial numbers. Is there any agreement on whether certain runs of the HD800 are better?


 
   
  The only agreement is that there is no common agreement. I would say #14xxx should be just as awesome as any HD800.
   
  It has been reported that the first production batches were sounding  a bit different but not all with all agree to even that.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





moses1258 said:


> I really don't want to lose any details.  I like my Woo WA3, but feel I can move up the chain and get more focus.  It's just that I've tried several SS amps (Bryston, Musical Fidelity, Burson) and just thought the 800's were a little brittle with all those amps.
> 
> I guess the term "lush" worries me a bit because it sounds like you're losing details.


 
   
  SS amps and HD 800 never did it for me, and several have commented that the Bryston can sound cold and analytical. I do feel that lush does sacrifice a little bit of detail and precision to improve tonality and smoothness, however, the right tubes will remedy that on a tube amp. I've noticed that on both my WA2 and WA6-SE. The ideal amp for the HD 800 will be fast, transparent, detailed, while maintaining a natural tonality and musicality. To me, the more SS sounding WA6-SE has done that for me. the WA2 can get there as well, but requires alot of tube rolling because i've noticed that if it sounds too smooth, yeah it gets rid of peaks and harshness in the treble, but you lose details and accuracy. 
   
  This i think, is why many find the ZD to sound so good with HD 800.
  Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> Have the HD800 with a WooA6 and balanced with a Phoenix and I prefer the latter.....don't ask me why,it is just my ears,system etc.!
> There is no harshness and plenty of bass with both amps but the Phoenix is ever so slightly more controlled and focused withouth losing musicality.


 
   
  the WA6-SE would probably be closer in performance to the Phoenix


----------



## Maxvla

I prefer the HD800 being analytical. It is their nature and they still sound very involving while doing it.


----------



## Solude

The 'problem' as far as reviewers have noted with the ZDSE is the lack of rolling options and a comparatively thin bottom and grainy top when compared to other tube options.  It's a trade, what else is new.  That the Decware is far less and has rolling options makes it a safer blind buy.  The beauty of the ZDSE though is what would be super low output impedance on a transformer coupled amp... and it's OTL.  Same thing that keeps it from having a boosted bottom though.


----------



## longbowbbs

I would love to audition a ZDSE. However, I am not sure I would discern much more than I get now from the Decware. The new Taboo is in ouse and it will take some time to balance the CSP2+ and the Taboo. Once I get to that point I may be moving the deck chairs around the Titanic....


----------



## Nick Dangerous

My gut feeling says if I bought a Zana Deux, I'd be trading up for a Balancing Act a month or so later. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I can't go 2.5x the price of my already excellent-sounding (and looking) Decware CSP+... but... I do hope someone brings a BA to a local meet someday.
   
  (and also a Manley Classic 300b, but let's not get too carried away now...)


----------



## Solude

If I had a pool of money the EC BA would be an easy buy but unfortunately the cost for entry is high, rolling is also high and maintenance costs also are high.  But if I win tonight's lotto... yes please.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Ooooh...
   
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-antique-sound-lab-twin-head-mk-ii-headphone-amplifier-preamplifier-2013-03-21-preamplifiers-94709
   
  Never heard it with the HD800, but 2A3 rolling fun for only $900? Someone buy it & bring it to the next meet!


----------



## BournePerfect

ZDSE is ss sounding in that it doesn't give up the best strengths of ss: detailed, fast, dynamic. It clobbers most of them in terms of microdynamics and soundstage, and simply put sounds absolutely magical with many headphones, especially the HD 800 and TH 900 ime. I wouldn't dare say say it rolls off the highs (tube dependant of course), it is just as detailed and fast as any ss I've had, and the nasty sibilance I've heard on my 3 HD 800s on EVERY ss amp I tried, simply vanishes. Bottom line, it isn't warm or lush, it's SILK.

-Daniel


----------



## extrabigmehdi

I  found that the hd800 sounds more natural & is more involving , with the sub bass boosted (i.e below 100  hz).
  I  was complaining of a lack of perceived speed, especially while listening music such like psytrance, or metal. It seems to some extent related to a lack of sub bass.
   
  Here's my last eq:
   

   
  The treble doesn't need much to be tamed (at most by 1 db),
  but I  think that boosting the sub bass by roughly 4 db, improve the listening experience.
   
Note: To avoid digital clipping , volume must be reduced on dsp chain, or on  the eq itself.


----------



## dallan

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> ZDSE is ss sounding in that it doesn't give up the best strengths of ss: detailed, fast, dynamic. It clobbers most of them in terms of microdynamics and soundstage, and simply put sounds absolutely magical with many headphones, especially the HD 800 and TH 900 ime. I wouldn't dare say say it rolls off the highs (tube dependant of course), it is just as detailed and fast as any ss I've had, and the nasty sibilance I've heard on my 3 HD 800s on EVERY ss amp I tried, simply vanishes. Bottom line, it isn't warm or lush, it's SILK.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  What i find hard about comparing the Zana Deux to other amps is the dynamic/transparent sound that it delivers.  It just seems to be in a different league of sorts.  It is hard to compare actually, where as other amps i have heard i can say this sounds warmer or this is faster, but the Zana Deux sounds like just a different class.  Much is due to tastes of course so nice to hear it first.  I just got lucky and was able to here one at a meet where i was trying to decide between several totally different tube amps and got to hear it in the mix.


----------



## BournePerfect

Yep-pretty amazing that it bests every amp I've heard in nearly ebery area technically, and simply destroys most comers on the engaging/musicality front.

-Daniel


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> Have the HD800 with a WooA6 and balanced with a Phoenix and I prefer the latter.....don't ask me why,it is just my ears,system etc.!
> There is no harshness and plenty of bass with both amps but the Phoenix is ever so slightly more controlled and focused withouth losing musicality.


 
   
  You sound like you want to apologize for prefering the Phoenix. The HD800's can be superb with a good SS amp. Even run single ended they sound excellent out of my Master-6 and that's with rock & metal.
   
  I use to have the Woo6se and Audio-gd Roc and found they played on a similar level so the Pheonix should be a clear step up on the W6.


----------



## Painterspal

When shortlisting tube amps that pair well with the HD800 I'll say again that the often overlooked Icon Audio HP8 mk2 should be on anyone's list. Check out Project86's recent review where he preferred it to the WA6 SE. I find it a very musical combination with hardly any shortcomings. Responds well to tube rolling too.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

looks like a cute little amp


----------



## dan.gheorghe

Hey guys. I have an interesting history with sennheiser HD800. When I first listen to them one year ago through Burson HA-160DS they did not impress me and chose the Audeze LCD2 instead. A few weeks ago I was blown away when I listened to them from Burson Conductor. This unit changed them dramatically from what I knew. They impressed me so much as from that moment I knew...that in the near future I will get one. So the near future became present and I have a lovely pair of HD800 (sn 189xx). I think they are the best pair of headphones I have heard until now. I still love my lcd2 and still use them a lot but HD800 is clearly in another league.
   
Here are my full impressions of HD800 .


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nice review! 
   
  yeah the hd 800 is very transparent to the source and amp and can sound quite different. first time i heard hd 800 i was underwhelmed but now i absolutely love them and as i keep improving my setup, im starting to even like them more than my T1.
   
  they just keep getting better and better!


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





dan.gheorghe said:


> A few weeks ago I was blown away when I listened to them from Burson Conductor. This unit changed them dramatically from what I knew. They impressed me so much as from that moment I knew...that in the near future I will get one.


 
   
  This seems to be a very safe choice to unlock the HD800 and turn it from a distant, flat sounding headphone to a dynamic monster.  Burson really nailed it with this series.  HeadAmp GS-X mk2 is better but at 2.5x the price... anyone surprised?


----------



## palmfish

My first impression of the HD800 wasnt positive either. It was 2 years ago at ALO Audio with a Burson HA-160d. I attribute it to not being an experienced heaphone listener. I didnt really become aware of imaging and soundstage until I had a couple of years in the hobby and a wide breadth of headphones audiotions to draw on for reference.

Needless to say, I absolutely love my 800's - paired with my DAC1 and from the output of my Pioneer AVR.


----------



## palmfish

My first impression of the HD800 wasnt positive either. It was 2 years ago at ALO Audio with a Burson HA-160d. I attribute it to not being an experienced heaphone listener. I didnt really become aware of imaging and soundstage until I had a couple of years in the hobby and a wide breadth of headphones audiotions to draw on for reference.

Needless to say, I absolutely love my 800's - paired with my DAC1 and from the output of my Pioneer AVR.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> nice review!
> 
> yeah the hd 800 is very transparent to the source and amp and can sound quite different. first time i heard hd 800 i was underwhelmed but now i absolutely love them and as i keep improving my setup, im starting to even like them more than my T1.
> 
> they just keep getting better and better!


 
   
  The T1s, god I used to own those. Yes, the HD800s are quite a bit better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   


solude said:


> This seems to be a very safe choice to unlock the HD800 and turn it from a distant, flat sounding headphone to a dynamic monster.  Burson really nailed it with this series.  HeadAmp GS-X mk2 is better but at 2.5x the price... anyone surprised?


 
   
  Thumbs up to that from me as well. The Conductor makes the HD800s rock so hard:. great bass, dynamics, PRAT, very detailed, but smooth treble, while maintaining a neutral stance. Very engaging.
   
  I've been secretly eyeing the GS-X MK2, but as you say 2.5x is a bit tough to swallow + the wait, but who knows. 
  How would you quantify the qualities GS-X MK2 adds over Soloist were it be in %?


----------



## negura

. duplicate deleted


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





negura said:


> How would you quantify the qualities GS-X MK2 adds over Soloist were it be in %?


 
   
  Very similar, somewhere in the 95% range with the biggest difference being propulsive deep bass on the GS-X mk2.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





solude said:


> Very similar, somewhere in the 95% range with the biggest difference being propulsive deep bass on the GS-X mk2.


 
   
  Thanks. See, a tough one now, anything the Soloist does better than the GS-X?


----------



## Solude

Leaves more space on my desk and more money in my wallet   If the GS-1 ever comes back then it's a conversation worth having since both are $1000.


----------



## preproman

Waiting to see a comparison between the GS-X mk2 and some sort of high end tube amp ie..  EC 2A3, EC BA, DNA Stratus and so on..


----------



## Maxvla

You will probably get your wish when I get my GS-X, if it hasn't been done before that time.


----------



## M-13

Just curious. Has anyone tried driving the HD800s from an Emotiva Mini-x?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Waiting to see a comparison between the GS-X mk2 and some sort of high end tube amp ie..  EC 2A3, EC BA, DNA Stratus and so on..


 
   
   
  What tube amps?


----------



## Maxvla

preproman said:


> What tube amps?



Whatever Mike/Marv have access to at the time. At the very least the EC S7, but I would suspect they can round up a EC BA/ZDSE or perhaps some DNA stuff. Depending on how long it takes to get mine and how far along they are on the Leviathan, perhaps a comparison of ToTL SS and ToTL tube ($2800 vs $5000+).


----------



## silversurfer616

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> You sound like you want to apologize for prefering the Phoenix. The HD800's can be superb with a good SS amp. Even run single ended they sound excellent out of my Master-6 and that's with rock & metal.
> 
> I use to have the Woo6se and Audio-gd Roc and found they played on a similar level so the Pheonix should be a clear step up on the W6.


 

 It is because the Woo has "SEX APPEAL" and is not just a big(two actually)black box which doesn' arouse me at all!


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> It is because the Woo has "SEX APPEAL" and is not just a big(two actually)black box which doesn' arouse me at all!


 
   
  Now you are just being kinky


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





solude said:


> Leaves more space on my desk and more money in my wallet   If the GS-1 ever comes back then it's a conversation worth having since both are $1000.


 
   
  Yes, I'd love to see a GS-1 Mk2 with the new modules and (half) the beefier power supply in the future but I realize Justin has his plate full enough keeping up with demand of GS-X and BHSE.  I suspect if he did re-introduce it would sell like hotcakes as well.
   
  Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> It is because the Woo has "SEX APPEAL" and is not just a big(two actually)black box which doesn' arouse me at all!


 
   
  Can't argue with this one.  The Audio-GD stuff is not best looking out there.  My SA-31 kind of looks akward next to my svelte Nuwave


----------



## Dubstep Girl

another night of enjoying the HD 800, i'm starting to like it more and more....
   
  the LCD-2 and HE-500 are kinda falling behind compared to my listening time with T1/HD800. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  im finding the bass on the HD 800 and T1 to be quite addictive too....


----------



## RedBull

bourneperfect said:


> ZDSE is ss sounding in that it doesn't give up the best strengths of ss: detailed, fast, dynamic. It clobbers most of them in terms of microdynamics and soundstage, and simply put sounds absolutely magical with many headphones, especially the HD 800 and TH 900 ime. I wouldn't dare say say it rolls off the highs (tube dependant of course), it is just as detailed and fast as any ss I've had, and the nasty sibilance I've heard on my 3 HD 800s on EVERY ss amp I tried, simply vanishes. Bottom line, it isn't warm or lush, it's SILK.
> 
> -Daniel




what hd800 serial numbers do you have?
did you notice any variance?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> another night of enjoying the HD 800, i'm starting to like it more and more....
> 
> the LCD-2 and HE-500 are kinda falling behind compared to my listening time with T1/HD800.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Kinda the same for me as well.  As of right now the HD800 made it's way past the LCD-3
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It's a fight for third place now.  LCD-3 / T1s
   
  1.     HE-6
  2.     HD800
  3.     LCD-3 or T1


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i can see myself selling HE-500 and LCD-2 and getting LCD-3 in the future.
   
  i just love the crystal clear sound the T1/HD 800 have, their transparency, soundstage, and detail.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i can see myself selling HE-500 and LCD-2 and getting LCD-3 in the future.
> 
> i just love the crystal clear sound the T1/HD 800 have, their transparency, soundstage, and detail.


 
   
  That'll be a good move to make IMO...


----------



## dan.gheorghe

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> another night of enjoying the HD 800, i'm starting to like it more and more....
> 
> the LCD-2 and HE-500 are kinda falling behind compared to my listening time with T1/HD800.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Still using LCD2 and enjoy it very much, but for now HD800 seems to get more headtime too. I am not sure yet if it is a new toy syndrome.
   
   


redbull said:


> what hd800 serial numbers do you have?
> did you notice any variance?


 
   
  I have a new one 189xx but also heard an older version (063xx) and did not find any differences on the source.
  I  do not believe there are differences in the new versions. I think people heard them a while back on different sources and now on better ones and think the differences  come from changes in the headphones. In my case I knew it was the exact same one on both sources.


----------



## BournePerfect

redbull said:


> what hd800 serial numbers do you have?
> did you notice any variance?




Roughly 15xxx, 17xxx, and now 19xxx. To my ears they have all sounded the same, they simply change based on changing the rest of the equipment. Even supposed smooth sounding ss amps all have a slight thinness and sibilance compared to the ZDSE, although the Zana doesn't give up really anything technically to them. 

-Daniel


----------



## preproman

No thinness or sibilance at all with the GS-X mk2.  Very full, clean, accurate and fast with a large sound stage.


----------



## MorbidToaster

There's a difference between 'new toy' syndrome and 'better headphone' syndrome. 
   
  Quote: 





dan.gheorghe said:


> Still using LCD2 and enjoy it very much, but for now HD800 seems to get more headtime too. I am not sure yet if it is a new toy syndrome.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i can see myself selling HE-500 and LCD-2 and getting LCD-3 in the future.
> 
> i just love the crystal clear sound the T1/HD 800 have, their transparency, soundstage, and detail.


 
    
  This is exactly where I am right now. Figure I might just sell my LCD-2.2 to make some room in the wallet for LCD-3.
     
  Quote:


morbidtoaster said:


> There's a difference between 'new toy' syndrome and 'better headphone' syndrome.


 
   






  That's what I keep telling him too, but I think he knows it.




preproman said:


> No thinness or sibilance at all with the GS-X mk2.  Very full, clean, accurate and fast with a large sound stage.


 

   
  How's GS-X mk2 with HE-6?


----------



## dan.gheorghe

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> There's a difference between 'new toy' syndrome and 'better headphone' syndrome.


 
  If you put it that way, I consider HD800 to be better than LCD3 too 
   
  However I really enjoy the sound presentation of lcd2/3 too


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





negura said:


> How's GS-X mk2 with HE-6?


 
   
  It's OK,  can drive them well.  However, I still like the F1J/HE-6 combo better.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Roughly 15xxx, 17xxx, and now 19xxx. To my ears they have all sounded the same, they simply change based on changing the rest of the equipment. Even supposed smooth sounding ss amps all have a slight thinness and sibilance compared to the ZDSE, although the Zana doesn't give up really anything technically to them.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  I assumed as much based on my reading. In fact after my Leviathan, I intend on getting the GSX mkii to help preserve tube life lol. I'm sure it will be interesting to use the GSX as a pre in that scenario as well.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> There's a difference between 'new toy' syndrome and 'better headphone' syndrome.


 

 LOL, some people just need more time before putting them on a chopping block.


----------



## Pudu

jronan2 said:


> Those of you who have bought custom colored HD800's from colorware, just wanted to know if it was worth it? Do they do good work that will last? I'm thinking of getting a custom colored HD800. After messing around with the paints, I can't even look at the stock HD 800. I know it's all about how they sound but I thought getting them painted would be a good idea since the stock ones chip pretty easily from what I have heard.




I've been trying to get caught up in this thread, but it does not stay still for any length of time.

After many years of turning up my nose, I finally decided I've been discounting the HD800 unfairly ... mostly because they are so very ugly - I do feel that expensive gear needs to be aesthetically pleasing as well as perform well. So I sprung for the Colorwares. But their website still isn't great for telling what the final product will look like and I wasn't too sure how well it would turn out or even if it would end up being worse than stock.

A couple of weeks ago I was in Singapore and got to mess around with the stock HD and have to say it does look much better in person than in pictures - though still not one you buy for looks. The Colorwares were waiting for me when I got home. The quality and look of their work is actually very good. I like them quite a bit better than stock, but can't speak to the durability of the paint because I've only had them for a couple of weeks.

And I'm glad got over my anti-HD bias, because they do sound terrific.


----------



## LugBug1

Those look really nice Pudo, welcome the best club on head-fi


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Those look really nice Pudo, welcome the best club on head-fi


 
   
  +1


----------



## Pudu

Haha, thanks.

I'm not sure they're my favourite headphones ... yet. But they are very, very ... very good.


----------



## FlySweep

Am I the only one who likes.. nay, *loves*.. how the HD800 looks?  I'm quite smitten with the looks of the 'lowly' stock version.  The Colorware versions are certainly beautiful, of course.  For a phone that uses a good bit of plastic and other unique composites, I'm still impressed with the clean, semi-futuristic curves.  The simple headband makes the cups the focus of the design.  They're eye catching, but not gaudy.  I dig how the slightly clinical, "Sharper Image"-esque exterior juxtaposes the oh-so-gorgeous, natural, organic sound that's stored within.  Sure, we don't have exotic woods to oggle at but, frankly, I like that it looks.. _different_.


----------



## maarek99

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> Am I the only one who likes.. nay, *loves*.. how the HD800 looks?


 
   
  I first thought they looked horrible. In pictures that is. When I got them...I now think they look pretty nice. Funny.


----------



## Maxvla

I don't care for the silver. It's not bad, but I wouldn't buy one knowing the Colorware option was available. The other bonus to Colorware is the paint seems to be stronger than stock.


----------



## LugBug1

I like the all black or black and white, not so keen on other colours that I've seen. 
   
  I mean really..


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *LugBug1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I like the all black or black and white, not so keen on other colours that I've seen.
> 
> I mean really..


 
   
  I'd like to edit my previous statement.. there is -one- HD800 that looks ridiculous.  LOL.  Is this the Sesame Street HD800?  Seems like something I could see Bert & Ernie rocking.


----------



## wink

Still look better than beats....


----------



## RedBull

bourneperfect said:


> Roughly 15xxx, 17xxx, and now 19xxx. To my ears they have all sounded the same, they simply change based on changing the rest of the equipment. Even supposed smooth sounding ss amps all have a slight thinness and sibilance compared to the ZDSE, although the Zana doesn't give up really anything technically to them.
> 
> -Daniel


 

thanks Daniel, this is quite conclusive.


----------



## Currawong

If I wanted a pair for my daughter....well maybe not that colour scheme but possibly hot pink...


----------



## RedBull

lugbug1 said:


> I like the all black or black and white, not so keen on other colours that I've seen.
> 
> I mean really..




Hmm, i dont know what to say ...


----------



## RedBull

currawong said:


> If I wanted a pair for my daughter....well maybe not that colour scheme but possibly hot pink...




i'll let my daughter start the journey from koss portal pro first.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





currawong said:


> If I wanted a pair for my daughter....well maybe not that colour scheme but possibly hot pink...


----------



## wink

Mercy, that's indigestion city on a plate.......


----------



## extrabigmehdi

I like the pink scheme , but it's considered  to be girly.
  The other color , that  you see often on girl related products is turquoise:


----------



## wink

Purple is the way to go.....


----------



## LugBug1

Not exactly purple but, how about...


----------



## Landmantx

The Pimpadellic 800s. I have dreamed about their release for years!!!! Is that a pre-production picture?

I do agree that the 800s do not look that great. Of course, my favorite look is the Audeze.


----------



## RustA

I like the stock colour combination the most... Serious and hi-tech headphone that looks like a serious and hi-tech headphone.
   
  Also, with wildly customised colours, one could have problems with re-selling the phones. That said, some more decent colour schemes looked quite nice (like preproman's)!


----------



## wink

Quote:LugBug1 





>


 
  Is this legal..???????
  If not, there should be a law against it....
  Common decency stipulates that the drivers should be removed and replaced with Beats units.....


----------



## kozmo

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I like the all black or black and white, not so keen on other colours that I've seen.
> 
> I mean really..


 
   
  Holy Lego Batman!!!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Not exactly purple but, how about...


 
   
  Quote: 





wink said:


> Is this legal..???????
> If not, there should be a law against it....
> Common decency stipulates that the drivers should be removed and replaced with Beats units.....


 
  I think you've just upset the owner of them..


----------



## wink

Quote:LugBug1 





> I think you've just upset the owner of them..


 
  C'mon dude- he's wearing beats.......


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





rusta said:


> I like the stock colour combination the most... Serious and hi-tech headphone that looks like a serious and hi-tech headphone.
> 
> Also, with wildly customised colours, one could have problems with re-selling the phones. That said, some more decent colour schemes looked quite nice (like preproman's)!


 
   
   
  Thanks RustA man....


----------



## MorbidToaster

I want to like them but to be honest I think anything but the all black Colorware looks bad as well.
   
  Color on the grill ring is fine, but the rest of it should stay black, IMO. At least I haven't been able to create or seen one that didn't just look ridiculous with colors.


----------



## LugBug1

Good ole stock. Just snapped them while the sun is shining


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Good ole stock. Just snapped them while the sun is shining


 
   
  I remember the images of HE-500 amd LCD-2 in nearly-the-same place!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





rusta said:


> I remember the images of HE-500 amd LCD-2 in nearly-the-same place!


 
  haha well spotted! 
   
  awwww I miss them two snif..


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> haha well spotted!
> 
> awwww I miss them two snif..


 
   
  I was really happy with LCD-2 but HD800 are just a lot better for my needs... I guess I love huge soundstage with precise imaging and instrument separation the most (and the neutrality and great balanced bass etc. etc.). From high-end headphones I've had, Denon D7000 really didn't do it for me and therefore I knew that FUN headphones are not for me. Then, LCD-2 with very good balance but in the end, they were too stereo-ish with too much dominant bass and little bit more shelved in treble than ideal.
   
  HD800 do not have a single flaw to my ears... It's just a completely perfect headphone. I really tried hard to find anything not good enough but this headphone is just... huge. If I ever wanted to switch, the successor must share nearly the same sound characteristics and cost less, or be significantly better (and not cost 2x more).


----------



## RedBull

lugbug1 said:


> Not exactly purple but, how about...




They should also make Hello Kitty edition


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





rusta said:


> I was really happy with LCD-2 but HD800 are just a lot better for my needs... I guess I love huge soundstage with precise imaging and instrument separation the most (and the neutrality and great balanced bass etc. etc.). From high-end headphones I've had, Denon D7000 really didn't do it for me and therefore I knew that FUN headphones are not for me. Then, LCD-2 with very good balance but in the end, they were too stereo-ish with too much dominant bass and little bit more shelved in treble than ideal.
> 
> HD800 do not have a single flaw to my ears... It's just a completely perfect headphone. I really tried hard to find anything not good enough but this headphone is just... huge. If I ever wanted to switch, the successor must share nearly the same sound characteristics and cost less, or be significantly better (and not cost 2x more).


 
  Yeah I know what you mean, I can't really fault them either. As good as it gets! 
   
  I still want to own another set of LCD2's though... Just for Jazz


----------



## BleaK

Quote: 





rusta said:


> I was really happy with LCD-2 but HD800 are just a lot better for my needs... I guess I love huge soundstage with precise imaging and instrument separation the most (and the neutrality and great balanced bass etc. etc.). From high-end headphones I've had, Denon D7000 really didn't do it for me and therefore I knew that FUN headphones are not for me. Then, LCD-2 with very good balance but in the end, they were too stereo-ish with too much dominant bass and little bit more shelved in treble than ideal.
> 
> HD800 do not have a single flaw to my ears... It's just a completely perfect headphone. I really tried hard to find anything not good enough but this headphone is just... huge. If I ever wanted to switch, the successor must share nearly the same sound characteristics and cost less, or be significantly better (and not cost 2x more).


 
   

 I see you have tested the HD800 and O2 (ODA) in your avatar, how did they sound together? Just curious.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





bleak said:


> I see you have tested the HD800 and O2 (ODA) in your avatar, how did they sound together? Just curious.


 
   
  I decided to go for a more complex setup with many more options how to optimise the sound to my liking on the hardware level... And I really don't have much money, therefore I cannot afford to own anything more that you could see in my signature. That's why I sold desktop O2/ODAC primarily (the lack of funds to own more devices at once).
   
  That said, I must say that I prefer my current amplifier. From the theoretical point of view, an impedance switch with high Z position set to 300 ohm (being suitable for up to 600 ohm) along with generally more solid-state-like sound of parafeed amps (in comparison with OTL amps) was what I wanted. In practice, O2 is significantly more airy and sounds a bit clearer, with a bit wider soundstage (O2 has more treble and a bit less significant bass, that's why primarily). The problem I found though was the significant thinness, harshness and even a lack of details in upper mids and treble frequencies (voices, guitars etc.) - not as easy to spot without side-by-side testing but yes, it was definitely there and practically solved my dilemma what amp to sold. I became a believer that impedance match is important as well with headphones... HD800 sound less right with the impedance switch set on low z position, for example.
   
  Wish I had more money... I don't think I need GS-X mk2 really and I am VERY happy about my DAC with crossfeed an other features influencing the sound BUT would like to know how much better some of the best HD800 amps in sub 1k category sound. I love how using the right tubes can very subtly help you to get the very best sound (to your ears) but I don't want Bottlehead crack and WA6-SE is very expensive. Not many options for me... Maybe basic WA6.


----------



## BleaK

Thank you for your reply!


----------



## longbowbbs

Here is the new HD800 setup....


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Here is the new HD800 setup....


 
  Looking good. Is the new amp the better one, or are they different enough to keep both?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The Taboo has more flexibility. Individually they both sound fantastic. The cool thing is they can be used together as Pre-amp (CSP2+) to amp (Taboo Mk III) so it will be a while before I find the optimal setup. Is it CSP2+ alone, Taboo MK II alone or using the two devices as a system? Then I add the two separate Taboo Lucid modes and don't forget, Tube Rolling......
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'll post a review once I sort through all the possibilities....


----------



## brokenthumb

Quote: 





rusta said:


> HD800 do not have a single flaw to my ears... It's just a completely perfect headphone. I really tried hard to find anything not good enough but this headphone is just... huge. If I ever wanted to switch, the successor must share nearly the same sound characteristics and cost less, or be significantly better (and not cost 2x more).


 
   
  +1
   
  I've had mine for two months now and I can't find anything wrong with the HD800.  Today is the last day for me to return for a refund but I've decided to keep them.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Here is the new HD800 setup....


 
   
  Like those 596's you got there!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  They are a favorite of mine!


----------



## soullinker20

How long does it take Colorware to repaint the hd800?
   
  Mine has already some chip on the paintings..


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





soullinker20 said:


> How long does it take Colorware to repaint the hd800?
> 
> Mine has already some chip on the paintings..


 
   
  They no longer paint used HD800's.  They've opted to only work on new headphones.  I forget their stated reasons.  Sorry.


----------



## Maxvla

Having to work with flawed surfaces. Nicks, dings, oils, etc. I might be wrong, but I think they changed this across the board for all of their products.


----------



## soullinker20

Quote: 





pudu said:


>


 
   
   
  the blackness makes them look like a tank to me... these are so gorgeous!!
    
  Quote:


jazzerdave said:


> They no longer paint used HD800's.  They've opted to only work on new headphones.  I forget their stated reasons.  Sorry.


 
   
   
  oh welps... how sad.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


>


 
   
  i was actually considering pink HD 800's some time ago. but having to sell and rebuy at full msrp made it not worth it anymore. i'd probably make it all pink without that black and darker pink in the center with the white ring, or make it all black with pink outer and innter ring


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i was actually considering pink HD 800's some time ago. but having to sell and rebuy at full msrp made it not worth it anymore. i'd probably make it all pink without that black and darker pink in the center with the white ring, or make it all black with pink outer and innter ring


 
   
  So the only parts they won't paint are the pads (and the housing for the headband pad), and the screen and the surrounding black part.  Everything that can be colored on that pictured pair has been colored.  I had been considering them for a long time and likely would have ordered a pair in all black with some accent color just on the inner ring.  I ended up buying a used pair instead.


----------



## technica18

I have jumped head first into the HD800 pool. I hope they won't turn out to be K702 the sequel cause I can stand thin shrieking headphones. Although some of your comments have eased my mind, I'm still worried since this stuff is so subjective. By the way I have a Bifrost running through a Lyr and Soloist SL.


----------



## MorbidToaster

If it turns out that way, you're doing something wrong.
   
  Quote: 





technica18 said:


> I have jumped head first into the HD800 pool. I hope they won't turn out to be *K702 the sequel cause I can stand thin shrieking headphones*. Although some of your comments have eased my mind, I'm still worried since this stuff is so subjective. By the way I have a Bifrost running through a Lyr and Soloist SL.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> If it turns out that way, you're doing something wrong.


 
   
  +1, totally agree
   
  i cannot stress this enough.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> So the only parts they won't paint are the pads (and the housing for the headband pad), and the screen and the surrounding black part.  Everything that can be colored on that pictured pair has been colored.  I had been considering them for a long time and likely would have ordered a pair in all black with some accent color just on the inner ring.  I ended up buying a used pair instead.


 
  I'm left really wondering why they won't touch that inner ring. I have my HD800 being painted by ReferenceSounds (Luis and company),
  and am inquiring about having every piece worked on.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Anyone got experience with the Taurus HPA?


----------



## Pudu

soullinker20 said:


> the blackness makes them look like a tank to me... these are so gorgeous!!
> ...
> oh welps... how sad.




Cheers. 

How long have you had yours? Do the stock ones really chip so easily? The way most people handle headphones of this calibre, there really is no excuse to have paint chipping off them at all.


----------



## FlySweep

V800 in the house.. the V200 feels 'complete,' now.  Gotta say, this stack looks so clean & smart on my desktop.  Toss the HD800 in and and I've got a little slice of Germany's finest audio at my disposal.  How does it sound with the HD800?
   





   
  DAT BASS..
   
  ..and really, everything else.  Simply. phenomenal. sound.
   
  The midrange is so rich and natural.  Treble has terrific extension and accuracy, but mysteriously doesn't fatigue even with poorly recorded material.  I really like how the soundstage and imaging is tight and precise.  With some DACs/amps that go nuts with soundstage, the HD800 (as a reflection of the upstream gear) tends to lose the ability to accurately image the center of the stage.  Not so with this stack.  I'm a bit of a soundstage junkie.. and while the HD800's soundstage might not be _quite_ as wide (vs what you'd get with some other TOTL amps), this stack's stage feels _incredibly satisfying_ in its cohesion and ability to present a well proportioned space.
   
  The Vio stack feels like it mixes the best (sonic) aspects of (what's traditionally associated with) tube & solid state amps, too.  Through some crazy German magic, it manages to sounds very smooth while maintaining terrific resolving ability & transparency.  There's nothing cheap or hokey about this either.. it does this with terrific precision.  The HD800 just eats it up and asks for more.  The sound is so smooth, clear, and dynamic.
   
  It's 3am.. I'm entranced in the sound.. and seriously contemplating if my body need any meaningful sleep tonight.. cause I can't. stop. listening.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





technica18 said:


> By the way I have a Bifrost running through a Lyr and Soloist SL.


 
   
  Should be fine through the Burson, never heard the Schiit.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I'm left really wondering why they won't touch that inner ring.


 
   
  My impression is that the HD800 is disassembled for the painting.  The mesh may not be removable from the frame, making the frame too difficult to paint risk free.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> It's 3am.. I'm entranced in the sound.. and seriously contemplating if my body need any meaningful sleep tonight.. cause I can't. stop. listening.


 
  Occupational hazard for HD800 owners....


----------



## RedBull

Auditor and Phonitor, being able to deliver 1.7 watt at 300 ohms rarely mentioned with hd800. Anyone using this combo can comment? is it too bright for 800?


----------



## esn89

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> V800 in the house.. the V200 feels 'complete,' now.  Gotta say, this stack looks so clean & smart on my desktop.  Toss the HD800 in and and I've got a little slice of Germany's finest audio at my disposal.  How does it sound with the HD800?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Since I have the same set up as you:
   
  What type of connection are you running from your v800 to v200?

 What gain and volume position are your v800 to v200?


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> V800 in the house.. the V200 feels 'complete,' now.  Gotta say, this stack looks so clean & smart on my desktop.  Toss the HD800 in and and I've got a little slice of Germany's finest audio at my disposal.  How does it sound with the HD800?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Awesome. I liked the V200 combo with the HD800 although I've never head the V800 DAC. I would like to but no room for it in my rig anymore.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





solude said:


> My impression is that the HD800 is disassembled for the painting.  The mesh may not be removable from the frame, making the frame too difficult to paint risk free.


 
  Yes. And it also seems that mesh allows the phone to breathe, still hoping there's some alternative work around.
  IMO, it's pointless to do a custom job on the HD800 to only be forced to leave that mesh stock.


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *esn89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Since I have the same set up as you:
> 
> ...


 
   
  My V800 & V200 connected to each other via XLR.  The resampling feature is nice on the V800.. I prefer to use "best" or "off".. "best" smooths & tightens the sound.. sometimes, a little too much... but regardless, it's fun to cycles through the various rates.  Output on the V800 is set to full.  Gain on the V200 is set to zero (all jumpers are down).  I can comfortably go between 10am and 1pm on the V200's pot with these settings.


----------



## esn89

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> My V800 & V200 connected to each other via XLR.  The resampling feature is nice on the V800.. I prefer to use "best" or "off".. "best" smooths & tightens the sound.. sometimes, a little too much... but regardless, it's fun to cycles through the various rates.  Output on the V800 is set to full.  Gain on the V200 is set to zero (all jumpers are down).  I can comfortably go between 10am and 1pm on the V200's pot with these settings.


 
   


 We have an identical set up, except the gain on my v200 is on +12 so that the v200 volume pot is on the 12-3o clock


----------



## technica18

solude said:


> Should be fine through the Burson, never heard the Schiit.




I know wattage isn't everything but I hope 107mW out of the SL is enough to push them.


----------



## Solude

In this case buying the 'lesser' model does no harm.  You still have the entire power the normal model does since the chopping was at the output current gain stage and not the voltage gain.  If we were talking the HE-6... ouchies.  The other change will be speed but having never heard both side by side it's hard to say whether you could hear it.  Krell v Pass type discussion


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Auditor and Phonitor, being able to deliver 1.7 watt at 300 ohms rarely mentioned with hd800. Anyone using this combo can comment? is it too bright for 800?


 
  I have the phonitor. Of course it also depends on your DAC but in my system (with m51 and DLiii before that) the phonitor almost sounded tubbey. Bright? Hell no! very smooth presentation.


----------



## rgs9200m

Just a crazy thought that some of these customizers would think about how to make a thicker, cushier pad for the HD800s.
  They are generally very comfortable, but some extra padding on the lower semi-circle (or semi-oval I guess) would be great.
   
  Does anyone notice any flattening of the pads over time?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> Just a crazy thought that some of these customizers would think about how to make a thicker, cushier pad for the HD800s.
> They are generally very comfortable, but some extra padding on the lower semi-circle (or semi-oval I guess) would be great.
> 
> Does anyone notice any flattening of the pads over time?


 
  I stretched the headband a little because they were resting on my cheek a little too hard. Suppose like all pads they will flatten over time, but the good news with these is that it shouldn't affect the sound-stage because the pads are thin to begin with.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I stretched the headband a little because they were resting on my cheek a little too hard. Suppose like all pads they will flatten over time, but the good news with these is that it shouldn't affect the sound-stage because the pads are thin to begin with.


 
   
  If I extend the headband to the max, there is almost no clamping force... That said, it's still the most comfortable headphone whatever I try to do with )
   
  Just in case, if anybody interested: http://www.head-fi.org/t/660354/wtb-suitable-amplifier-for-hd800


----------



## Kenion

Sorry guys, but I have to make a post or otherwise it just won't *subscribe* me to this awesome thread (just clicking on "subscribe" didn't do it for me). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So i thought I post a shot of my beloved headphones in here as well (and amp)...


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





kenion said:


> So i thought I post a shot of my beloved headphones in here as well (and amp)...


 
  So it's a xonar essence one, according to your signature.
  Costs around 600$ from what  I've seen.
  Are you happy with this setup ?
  Beware of the oversampling feature it behaves like a non subtle low pass, which might be pleasant with the hd800 I guess.
  I wish there would be a non-biased comparison with the xonar stx, using same headphone (someone that did the test instead of mindless bashing).


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> So it's a xonar essence one, according to your signature.
> Costs around 600$ from what  I've seen.
> Are you happy with this setup ?
> Beware of the oversampling feature it behaves like a non subtle low pass, which might be pleasant with the hd800 I guess.
> I wish there would be a non-biased comparison with the xonar stx, using same headphone (someone that did the test instead of mindless bashing).


 

 Yes, I really am happy with the E1!
  Please, come and join us on our thread if you want to find out more about it  (our impressions, thoughts, modding, etc.)
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/542563/asus-essence-one-headphone-amp-dac-cebit-2011/
  I'm aware about its agressive upsampling feature - However, Asus confirmed that they are considering patching it to a less "agressive" routine.
   
  I understand what you are saying about the Xonar STX and its lacking reviews with headphones like the HD-800.
  I agree that most owners (and not) "mindless bash" any soundcard paired with em - even though they CAN probably drive the HD-800's


----------



## RedBull

technica18 said:


> I know wattage isn't everything but I hope 107mW out of the SL is enough to push them.




Hell hd800 from ipod still also sound nice, still have that nice soundstage, separation and smoothness, still very much enjoyable.




cante ista said:


> I have the phonitor. Of course it also depends on your DAC but in my system (with m51 and DLiii before that) the phonitor almost sounded tubbey. Bright? Hell no! very smooth presentation.




Thanks. How do you compare Phonitor for 800 to your Sonnet? is Sonnet warmer?


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Hell hd800 from ipod still also sound nice, still have that nice soundstage, separation and smoothness, still very much enjoyable.
> Thanks. How do you compare Phonitor for 800 to your Sonnet? is Sonnet warmer?


 
  obviously it depends on the tube, but stock they are VERY similar on the warmth dimension. NOw I have the older Sonett and mine is SE. Not sure how the new one would compare.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Sorry guys, but I have to make a post or otherwise it just won't *subscribe* me to this awesome thread (just clicking on "subscribe" didn't do it for me).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thats a gorgeous photograph. Welcome!


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Thats a gorgeous photograph. Welcome!


 

 Thank you LugBug1!
  I'm enjoying them a lot since around 2 years now! I hope you guys do as well


----------



## xphynance

I am a newcommer and considering upgrading my current Nuforce HDP / HD650 combo, but where should start with? should I get a better cans first, or amp first or dac?
  I can do only one upgrade at a time now due to limited funding, but it is hard to decide which should come first?
  or I should save longer and upgrade them all at a time?


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





xphynance said:


> I am a newcommer and considering upgrading my current Nuforce HDP / HD650 combo, but where should start with? should I get a better cans first, or amp first or dac?
> I can do only one upgrade at a time now due to limited funding, but it is hard to decide which should come first?
> or I should save longer and upgrade them all at a time?


 

 Listen to the cans first, and see if you are interested to buy them.
  Otherwise I would upgrade the can first, as it's still the weakest element of the audio chain.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





xphynance said:


> I am a newcommer and considering upgrading my current Nuforce HDP / HD650 combo, but where should start with? should I get a better cans first, or amp first or dac?
> I can do only one upgrade at a time now due to limited funding, but it is hard to decide which should come first?
> or I should save longer and upgrade them all at a time?


 
   
  You should definitely start with your headphone first... I would keep your HDP and get HD800.
   
  Then, you will see whether you find the sound to be too bright, or not. If yes, you should upgrade your amp section first (and keep HDP as a DAC). If not, you can enjoy both together until you want to upgrade


----------



## negura

Quote: 





rusta said:


> You should definitely start with your headphone first... I would keep your HDP and get HD800.
> 
> Then, you will see whether you find the sound to be too bright, or not. If yes, you should upgrade your amp section first (and keep HDP as a DAC). If not, you can enjoy both together until you want to upgrade


 
   
  This, however knowing you may not be enjoying your HD800 at its optimal level for a while. I don't know how your downstream fits the HD800, but maybe someone else has tried that combination before.


----------



## xphynance

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Listen to the cans first, and see if you are interested to buy them.
> Otherwise I would upgrade the can first, as *it's still the weakest element of the audio chain.*


 
   
  why it is the weakest element of the audio chain?


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





xphynance said:


> why it is the weakest element of the audio chain?


 
  It's science, the "objectivist" from hydrogenaudio would be able to tell it more about it, and better than me.
  Otherwise measurements for headphone, are far from "perfect" (including any top of the line headphone) , while some source are just considered "objectively" transparent (i.e their limits are lower than what the human ear can perceive).


----------



## xphynance

i see, then, I may go with cans first. I was originally thinking of getting a decent amp first to scale up my hd650, then I realized a good dac is also important, then I want to save longer to get them both at a time, then I realized my hd650 may not reveal 100% of the improvement in the source, then I want to save even longer, then I feel frustrated I may not have any new gear in the near future...
  what a mess...   then I read this thread...
   
  thank you all!


----------



## xphynance

Quote: 





negura said:


> This, however knowing you may not be enjoying your HD800 at its optimal level for a while. I don't know how your downstream fits the HD800, but maybe someone else has tried that combination before.


 
   
  you mean the hd800 may not sound as good as hd650 on the HDP?


----------



## LugBug1

I would say if you really like the 650's then stick with them as they scale very well. Or, If you like them but are always wanting a bit more... Then go all-out on the HD800's. I very much doubt you will regret it. They are like are a much bigger sounding 650 with better extention at both ends and better resolution. The treble really isn't an issue with me and the amps that I've tried. Grado's and Beyers are too bright for my liking. 
   
  As has been said many times, the HD800's will only sound as good as what they are plugged into and what source you are using. But my limited experience with them is this; They sound great anyway! Much more amp friendly than I have been lead to believe. Plug them into a toaster and I'm sure you won't feel like your missing anything.. Plug them into your girlfriend! Have a listen..? I'm sure she'll agree that that's   a great bottom end.. and what with those two healthy sized peaks and smooth silky finish... k I'll stop now.


----------



## brokenthumb

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I would say if you really like the 650's then stick with them as they scale very well. Or, If you like them but are always wanting a bit more... Then go all-out on the HD800's. I very much doubt you will regret it. They are like are a much bigger sounding 650 with better extention at both ends and better resolution. The treble really isn't an issue with me and the amps that I've tried. Grado's and Beyers are too bright for my liking.
> 
> As has been said many times, the HD800's will only sound as good as what they are plugged into and what source you are using. But my limited experience with them is this; They sound great anyway! Much more amp friendly than I have been lead to believe. Plug them into a toaster and I'm sure you won't feel like your missing anything..* Plug them into your girlfriend! Have a listen..?* I'm sure she'll agree that that's   a great bottom end.. and what with those two healthy sized peaks and smooth silky finish... k I'll stop now.


 
   
  "tube amp"


----------



## Happy Camper

Boneaphone alert!


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Plug them into your girlfriend! Have a listen..? I'm sure she'll agree that that's   a great bottom end.. and what with those two healthy sized peaks and smooth silky finish... k I'll stop now.


 
   
  Haha! That made me laugh really 
   
  Quote: 





xphynance said:


> i see, then, I may go with cans first. I was originally thinking of getting a decent amp first to scale up my hd650, then I realized a good dac is also important, then I want to save longer to get them both at a time, then I realized my hd650 may not reveal 100% of the improvement in the source, then I want to save even longer, then I feel frustrated I may not have any new gear in the near future...
> what a mess...   then I read this thread...
> 
> thank you all!


 
   
  Keep in mind that the HD 650 tend to be a bit darker in sound signature as from what I've heard and the HD 800 is somewhat brighter just like the HD 600 - which, in my eyes, is the unofficial successor of it.
   
  As been already mentioned, test the headphone yourself first - have a good listen to them in a hifi-store near you (if your lucky to have one around). Kindly ask them if they would lend them to you for a weekend - I was lucky enough and had that chance without paying a deposit.
  If you think they are for you, then go ahead!
  I would keep the amp you have got now as the HD 800 adapts to its source exceedingly well (more than any other headphones I've heard so far). So you can easily decide if the sound signature delivered from your amp to the headphone is something you enjoy or not. Then you can consider upgrading to another amp.
   
  Hope I could help a little


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





brokenthumb said:


> "tube amp"


 
  LMAO


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





xphynance said:


> why it is the weakest element of the audio chain?


 
   
  It isn't, not by a long shot.  The HD600/650 used to be headphones considered at home in rigs costing upwards of $10000.  The HD800 is better, planars are also better but to think that the HD650 is the weak link in a rig with a $400 combo dac and amp upfront... no, just no.  The HD650 is darker than the HD800 but feels a little brighter than the LCD-2 because it can't reach down as far into the bass.


----------



## RedBull

cante ista said:


> obviously it depends on the tube, but stock they are VERY similar on the warmth dimension. NOw I have the older Sonett and mine is SE. Not sure how the new one would compare.




Thanks cante. How about detail level retrieval and slam on Sonett and Phonitor?


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





solude said:


> but to think that the HD650 is the weak link in a rig with a $400 combo dac and amp upfront... no, just no.


 
  Well, the performances of the headphone are limited by the mechanical , moving parts, how fast the driver is able to react etc...
  There's no moving part in an amp/source, just pure circuitry.
  I could link to some discussion at hydrogenaudio, telling how much we are technologically advanced, regarding the  components of a source,
  and the spending of big buck  for the source, is hardly justified.
  Now, I let go the "part of mystery" of why the hd650 would sound much better from more expensive source (I'm  curious, to some extent).
  But I noticed few people were disappointed after upgrading their source, they just do not talk much about it.


----------



## Solude

Through my years as an audiophile I've gone from $100 sources to $3000 and back again to $1500 range and so forth.  Long story short, cost isn't always an indicator of quality and at the same time giant killers at bargain bin prices are rare.  My last round of sources... W4S DAC-2 was modestly better than the Burson HA-160D, but the Metrum Octave was better than the W4S everywhere and cost less, win, but neither approached the PWD2 in performance and admittedly cost.  But I consider audio gear solid forms of currency and not money spent, so as long as I can swing the buy price, I haven't spent anything.  In case that made no sense... I can sell the PWD2 for what I paid for it so essentially the upgrade is free.
   
  The other side of the equation is that if the amp isn't transparent or capable of keeping up with the source, upgrades are hard to hear.  Ie the Burson HA-160D is just passable as an amp so the differences between it's DAC and the W4S took speakers to hear, well feel would be more accurate since the change was in force so bass hit harder.  Something you could feel but not hear.  On better amps the W4S grew it's performance gap to the HA-160D but still wasn't as good as the less expensive Metrum.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





solude said:


> Through my years as an audiophile I've gone from $100 sources to $3000 and back again to $1500 range and so forth.  Long story short, cost isn't always an indicator of quality and at the same time giant killers at bargain bin prices are rare.  My last round of sources... W4S DAC-2 was modestly better than the Burson HA-160D, but the Metrum Octave was better than the W4S everywhere and cost less, win, but neither approached the PWD2 in performance and admittedly cost.  But I consider audio gear solid forms of currency and not money spent, so as long as I can swing the buy price, I haven't spent anything.  In case that made no sense... I can sell the PWD2 for what I paid for it so essentially the upgrade is free.
> 
> The other side of the equation is that if the amp isn't transparent or capable of keeping up with the source, upgrades are hard to hear.  Ie the Burson HA-160D is just passable as an amp so the differences between it's DAC and the W4S took speakers to hear, well feel would be more accurate since the change was in force so bass hit harder.  Something you could feel but not hear.  On better amps the W4S grew it's performance gap to the HA-160D but still wasn't as good as the less expensive Metrum.


 
  LoL....and I compared the PWD2 to the W4S DAC-2 and let's just say I have little interest in the PS Audio DAC. Was it nice...sure, but better? Not really. I found that it imparted a bit too much of its character (warmish-sweet) on the sound, while the DAC-2 was a bit "truer" to the source. Even at roughly the same price, I'd still go with the W4S DAC. This is one area that you and I don't hear things the same (thought for the most part we do). Plus, the PWD2 is freakin' HUGE! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


 We really love the GS-X and HD-800s. Could be personal preferences coming into play too. So I guess it really pays to listen first. 
   
  Now this one, I'm interested in trying soon:
   
  http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/bryston-bda-2-digital-to-analog-converter/?utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=email-105
   
  My buddy and I did a shoot out between his BDA-1 and the DAC-2. Long story short, he know owns the DAC-2. But the biggest difference was with USB inputs and the BDA-1 lacked asyncronous USB...but it appears that this has been rectified on the BDA-2.


----------



## xphynance

Quote:


lugbug1 said:


> Plug them into a toaster and I'm sure you won't feel like your missing anything.. Plug them into your girlfriend! Have a listen..? I'm sure she'll agree that that's   a great bottom end.. and what with those two healthy sized peaks and smooth silky finish... k I'll stop now.


 
   
  I like your metaphor 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

  Quote: 





kenion said:


> Haha! That made me laugh really
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that the HD 650 tend to be a bit darker in sound signature as from what I've heard and the HD 800 is somewhat brighter just like the HD 600 - which, in my eyes, is the unofficial successor of it.
> ...


 
   

  Quote: 





solude said:


> Through my years as an audiophile I've gone from $100 sources to $3000 and back again to $1500 range and so forth.  Long story short, cost isn't always an indicator of quality and at the same time giant killers at bargain bin prices are rare.  My last round of sources... W4S DAC-2 was modestly better than the Burson HA-160D, but the Metrum Octave was better than the W4S everywhere and cost less, win, but neither approached the PWD2 in performance and admittedly cost.  But I consider audio gear solid forms of currency and not money spent, so as long as I can swing the buy price, I haven't spent anything.  In case that made no sense... I can sell the PWD2 for what I paid for it so essentially the upgrade is free.
> 
> The other side of the equation is that if the amp isn't transparent or capable of keeping up with the source, upgrades are hard to hear.  Ie the Burson HA-160D is just passable as an amp so the differences between it's DAC and the W4S took speakers to hear, well feel would be more accurate since the change was in force so bass hit harder.  Something you could feel but not hear.  On better amps the W4S grew it's performance gap to the HA-160D but still wasn't as good as the less expensive Metrum.


 
   
   


macedonianhero said:


> LoL....and I compared the PWD2 to the W4S DAC-2 and let's just say I have little interest in the PS Audio DAC. Was it nice...sure, but better? Not really. I found that it imparted a bit too much of its character (warmish-sweet) on the sound, while the DAC-2 was a bit "truer" to the source. Even at roughly the same price, I'd still go with the W4S DAC. This is one area that you and I don't hear things the same (thought for the most part we do). Plus, the PWD2 is freakin' HUGE!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  very informative, thank you all for the inputs!
   
  It is the "transparent" and "disappearing" effect of a gear that makes me excited most. I do like my hd650, ever since I put it on my head I could not enjoy the music with any IEMs straight plugged into the iphone, just too vague and, seems like there's a wall stands in between.... I am also surprised I had not noticed that for such a long time. 
   
  I assume hd800 could do much better... Hope some one could let me try their hd800 for a while or allow me to plug my hd650 to their amps tomorrow at the NY meeting. 
   
  BTW: GS-X 2 is on my wishlist too, need more time to save up for...


----------



## RedBull

solude said:


> On better amps the W4S grew it's performance gap to the HA-160D but still wasn't as good as the less expensive Metrum.




I am interested on Metrum for a long time, partly because of the looks, but I've been hearing bass and hf frequency roll off. What is your impression?


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





xphynance said:


> I am a newcommer and considering upgrading my current Nuforce HDP / HD650 combo, but where should start with? should I get a better cans first, or amp first or dac?
> I can do only one upgrade at a time now due to limited funding, but it is hard to decide which should come first?
> or I should save longer and upgrade them all at a time?


 
   
  Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Listen to the cans first, and see if you are interested to buy them.
> Otherwise I would upgrade the can first, as it's still the weakest element of the audio chain.


 
   
  Quote: 





rusta said:


> You should definitely start with your headphone first... I would keep your HDP and get HD800.
> 
> Then, you will see whether you find the sound to be too bright, or not. If yes, you should upgrade your amp section first (and keep HDP as a DAC). If not, you can enjoy both together until you want to upgrade


 

 I strongly recommend you don't do this. I found the HDP/HD800 not to be a good combination at all, way too bright, harsh and fatiguing to listen to. You'd be much better off sticking with your current combination or upgrading the DAC/amp to something better - the HD6xx series are fine headphones that scale well, though personally I prefer the HD600 of the two, providing it's amped well - it can be quite a relevation with the right partnering equipment. I like the HD800 even more, but it can sound terrible with the wrong gear. Combining it with the HDP would be a complete waste of your money IMO.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





redbull said:


> I am interested on Metrum for a long time, partly because of the looks, but I've been hearing bass and hf frequency roll off. What is your impression?


 
   
  No, just no.  The Meturm has no rolloff.  Where the Metrum and PWD2 really smoked the W4S was in top extension and tonal balance.  The W4S is a dark source dry source, the Metrum has great tonal balance and the PWD2 keeps that balance but is also butter smooth.  Which might be what MH feels is an overriding colour where I just hear it as completely etch free, the so called analog sound.  And yes it is a monster =)


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





redbull said:


> I am interested on Metrum for a long time, partly because of the looks, but I've been hearing bass and hf frequency roll off. What is your impression?


 
   
  The Metrum is one of the least colored and most neutral DAC's I've heard to date. It is not a dark sounding DAC, but neither is it a bright sounding one. It has exceptional transparency but may sound dry (especially if you're already using a headphone like the HD800), so I like to warm it up and give it some more body in bass by pairing it with April Music's Stello U3. IMO, most April Music gears I've listened to tend to sound somewhat dark, which is why I like them.


----------



## EasySounds

Hey everyone,
   
  Does anyone know whether the NFB 11.32 is an adequate amp/dac for the HD 800? Anyone used the NFB 11.32 with the HD 800 before?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





easysounds said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Does anyone know whether the NFB 11.32 is an adequate amp/dac for the HD 800? Anyone used the NFB 11.32 with the HD 800 before?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  The Audio gd line tend to have a tilt towards warmth and musicality rather than being analytical and dry. My C2.2 amp is a fine match with the HD800's. Large soundstage and no hardness in the treble. I say go for it


----------



## EasySounds

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> The Audio gd line tend to have a tilt towards warmth and musicality rather than being analytical and dry. My C2.2 amp is a fine match with the HD800's. Large soundstage and no hardness in the treble. I say go for it


 
  Hey LugBug1,
   
  Thanks. That's good to hear.


----------



## MacedonianHero

solude said:


> No, just no.  The Meturm has no rolloff.  Where the Metrum and PWD2 really smoked the W4S was in top extension and tonal balance.  The W4S is a dark source dry source, the Metrum has great tonal balance and the PWD2 keeps that balance but is also butter smooth.  Which might be what MH feels is an overriding colour where I just hear it as completely etch free, the so called analog sound.  And yes it is a monster =)




Not do much as smooth, but warmish/sweet. Inviting for sure, but not as transparent (and Fwiw, I found the pwd2 a bit darker and a whole lot bigger physically too). 

EDIT: I don't think I've ever heard a dark ES9018 based DAC as dark.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  +1...But that is why there are lots of choices. We all hear WHAT we hear...


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> No, just no.  The Meturm has no rolloff.  Where the Metrum and PWD2 really smoked the W4S was in top extension and tonal balance.  The W4S is a dark source dry source, the Metrum has great tonal balance and the PWD2 keeps that balance but is also butter smooth.  Which might be what MH feels is an overriding colour where I just hear it as completely etch free, the so called analog sound.  And yes it is a monster =)


 
   
  I agree.
   
  2.2.0 has excellent tonal balance, it's very resolving, I hear no color in this version.  It has lots of body and very good PRat.  Very energetic and detailed while being very musical.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

I'm not sure what people means by "hardness" on the treble.
  I wouldn't mind if the treble of hd800 sounded sharper actually.
  Although I got some sibilance in particular recordings (any mylene farmer fan ?)


----------



## negura

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I'm not sure what people means by "hardness" on the treble.
> I wouldn't have mind if the treble of hd800 sounded sharper actually.
> Although I got some sibilance in particular recordings (any mylene farmer fan ?)


 
   
  Just like there is sample variance with any gear, the same is with our ears.  Sharper treble on HD800 is a big a no no to me, as I think it's borderline sharp as is already, depending on the recording etc..


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I'm not sure what people means by "hardness" on the treble.
> I wouldn't have mind if the treble of hd800 sounded sharper actually.
> Although I got some sibilance in particular recordings (any mylene farmer fan ?)


 
  Yeah there'll only be hardness depending on the source. Also I wouldn't say hardness is related to sharpness in describing treble. I think a treble can be very sweet and easy on the ears and at the same time very sharp, in the context of resolution. Smearing of the sound can cause a lack of sharpness. This can be caused by distortion and could be attributed with cheap tube amps for example. Or dull sounding dacs.


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/bryston-bda-2-digital-to-analog-converter/?utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=email-105
> 
> My buddy and I did a shoot out between his BDA-1 and the DAC-2. Long story short, he know owns the DAC-2. But the biggest difference was with USB inputs and the BDA-1 lacked asyncronous USB...but it appears that this has been rectified on the BDA-2.


 
  The BDA-2 is quite nice, and definitely a step over the gungnir. My next upgrade is either the NAD M51 or the Bryston BDA-2. Unfortunately I don't own the BHA-1 anymore, so the BDA-2 won't have much striking appeal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I also think the m51 is a better buy albeit my small Bryston preference as a brand. Anyways, they're both Canadian 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  I'll need to compare them properly head-to-head in the next weeks at work, and not only with headphones. I'm trying to convince myself to wait for the Schiit statement, but it's not so easy.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


>





> I also think the m51 is a better buy albeit my small Bryston preference as a brand. Anyways, they're both Canadian
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Learn something everyday... was about to say NAD was British but wiki says that hasn't been true since 99 which is after I had an interest in NAD


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> The BDA-2 is quite nice, and definitely a step over the gungnir. My next upgrade is either the NAD M51 or the Bryston BDA-2. Unfortunately I don't own the BHA-1 anymore, so the BDA-2 won't have much striking appeal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





solude said:


> Learn something everyday... was about to say NAD was British but wiki says that hasn't been true since 99 which is after I had an interest in NAD


 
   
  I'm tempted by the BDA-2, but I'll hold out to hear the M51. Heard the BDA-2 today...went downtown and got to hear it on a pair of Totem Forests. Very impressive DAC! The BDA-1 was great, but a step behind the BDA-2 and even my W4S DAC-2.


----------



## RedBull

solude said:


> No, just no.  The Meturm has no rolloff.  Where the Metrum and PWD2 really smoked the W4S was in top extension and tonal balance.  The W4S is a dark source dry source, the Metrum has great tonal balance and the PWD2 keeps that balance but is also butter smooth.  Which might be what MH feels is an overriding colour where I just hear it as completely etch free, the so called analog sound.  And yes it is a monster =)







songmic said:


> The Metrum is one of the least colored and most neutral DAC's I've heard to date. It is not a dark sounding DAC, but neither is it a bright sounding one. It has exceptional transparency but may sound dry (especially if you're already using a headphone like the HD800), so I like to warm it up and give it some more body in bass by pairing it with April Music's Stello U3. IMO, most April Music gears I've listened to tend to sound somewhat dark, which is why I like them.




From the size and look alone, seems like i have to have this metrum. But maybe after i buy the koss esp950 first.


----------



## Solude

The new Octave should be awesome.  The Hex is being heralded as a giant killer and the new Octave is the single ended version of the same DAC.


----------



## Painterspal

Isn't this supposed to be an HD800 thread?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





painterspal said:


> Isn't this supposed to be an HD800 thread?


 
  A few posts not about the HD800 and you're whining.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





painterspal said:


> Isn't this supposed to be an HD800 thread?


 
   
  Last I heard the HD800 isn't worth much without a source and amp


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The guys at HiFi Heaven in Green Bay are the national dealer for Metrum. Great people to work with. I got my HD800's from them...Hmmm, I got my HD650's from them too! They are also an Audeze dealer. I have seen the Metrum's in stock including the Hex there. Good Web site too. www.hifiheaven.net. They do take trades ins as well....


----------



## putterolf

Hello guys!
   
  I will have my first HD800 on monday!
   
  And i wonder one thing, is it able to disassemble the 6.3mm jack plug on the hd800 cable? 
   
  Why i wonder is I have plans to put a 4pin xlr on it instead of the 6.3mm plug, because i also getting a hdvd800 on monday.
   
  Is this possible without cut the cable right off?


----------



## rawrster

You can cut the cable near where the plug is and then put in the 4 pin xlr


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> A few posts not about the HD800 and you're whining.


 
   
  Yup. Time's short, why waste it wading through a load of posts that don't seem to have a direct relevance with the HD800?
  Quote: 





solude said:


> Last I heard the HD800 isn't worth much without a source and amp


 
  Sure, if you're discussing their performance in the context of the HD800 then I'd be very interested to read your impressions. If not then there's probably a thread elsewhere that's more appropriate.


----------



## pervysage

Planning to get a pair of HD800's in May. From what everyone has been saying, the best thing would be to go with a Colorware right from the beginning.
   
  Found this picture of an all black (matte, I believe?) on the Colorware website gallery and think it's drool worthy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
  Most likely would go all matte black, but if I were to go for some different color, I would still be going all black and only get the ring around the mesh part a different color.... maybe yellow or red? What do you guys think? Heh.
   
  My first headphones were the K702 Anniversaries which I returned due to a rattling issue in one of the earcups. Figured now that I have some more money saved up, I would go for a flagship instead. I currently have the FiiO E9K/E17 combo for an amp and DAC and would be running that with the HD800's until I can get a tube amp (most likely the Woo Audio WA7 because it looks super sexy and from what I've been reading, pairs well with the 800's.


----------



## longbowbbs

The black is cool. I also like the Black and White ones that looked like Stormtroopers!


----------



## JWahl

I recently attended a meet this weekend where I got to try my HD800 with a few other amps to include the Violectric V200, Burson Soloist SL, and a custom one off boutique tube amp.  It was a good experience to put in perspective the performance of my current amp.
   
  That being said, I was quite shocked by the synergy of the junior Burson amp with the HD800.  I had initially listened to it to get an idea of the Burson house sound but still expected my current amp to readily stomp all over it.  This was not the case however.  The Soloist SL just had a far more organic and natural sound.  It gave the HD800 a certain wholeness across the frequency range and also pulled off something else which really surprised me.  
   
  If anyone recalls some of my previous posts about how I prefer using crossfeed DSP, with the Soloist SL, I actually thought it sounded better without the crossfeed enabled.  The Burson pulled off a very accurate and convincing soundstage with no apparent fatiguing over separation.  It wasn't the most expansive or out of head I've ever heard but it just felt extremely right.  In contrast, the boutique $4k-ish tube amp threw out a holographic out of head soundstage that was unreal (literally) but felt it may have been almost too airy and ethereal for all genres of music.  The Burson just sounded right with everything I threw at it.  Needless to say I now feel the need to buy the full size Soloist to see what I'm missing but I may have to sell my Nuwave DAC to afford it.
   
  My SA-31 sounded pretty phenomenal with the LCD-3 which doesn't surprise me.  It's a very spacious sounding amp which I think benefits the Audeze house sound.  I think with the HD800 it's just too distant sounding on some tracks and the Soloist SL really added some nice midrange intimacy and midbass punch.
   
  Ironically, I originally planned to buy the Soloist earlier but bought the Nuwave instead because I thought the Soloist would be a lateral move from my current amp.  Boy, was I wrong.  And I listened to it AFTER the V200.  The V200 also had an excellent synergy with the HD800 and I also liked it more than my current amp with the HD800.  It was silky smooth sounding and had a certain "boogie" factor to it.  Ultimately I preferred the Burson's synergy with the HD800.  I got to listen to both the Soloist SL and V200 on my own source/DAC to eliminate variables.  Even the guy with the megabuck tube amp was rather impressed and surprised by the Burson.
   
  I also got to listen to my HD800 on a Mjolnir/Gungnir with Wavelegth Proton USB converter. The Schiit Stack seemed a little too aggressive and forward for my taste.  And also WA22 with Yamaha A-S2000 SACD Player; Both balanced.  I preferred V200 and Soloist to both but they weren't with my source gear and music for better evaluation.  Unfortunately the person with the Apex Peak/Volcano didn't make the meet so I didn't get to listen to it.  The WA22 was exceptionally clean sounding but something about the sound just didn't really grab me like the others with the HD800.
   
  So in conclusion, the Soloist SL was the star of the show for me and whoever was asking about if it's sufficient to drive HD800, worry not, it drives it just fine and with excellent synergy.  And that volume pot is buttery smooth and easy to dial in very minute adjustments.  I really can't wait to get my hands on the full size soloist now.  Though I'm still weary of minute adjustment with stepped attenuator.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



 
   


jwahl said:


> I recently attended a meet this weekend where I got to try my HD800 with a few other amps to include the Violectric V200, Burson Soloist SL, and a custom one off boutique tube amp.  It was a good experience to put in perspective the performance of my current amp.
> 
> That being said, I was quite shocked by the synergy of the junior Burson amp with the HD800.  I had initially listened to it to get an idea of the Burson house sound but still expected my current amp to readily stomp all over it.  This was not the case however.  The Soloist SL just had a far more organic and natural sound.  It gave the HD800 a certain wholeness across the frequency range and also pulled off something else which really surprised me.
> 
> ...


 

   
   
   


   
  how was the soundstage on the WA22? i'm trying to get an amp with that really holographic soundstage/air you mentioned for my HD 800, while still maintaining musically and deep bass. i feel this is where my WA6-SE/WA2 are lacking (though the WA6-SE sounds close). also they could use a bit more clarity i think


----------



## kiwikaki

thanks


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I felt it to be very spacious and similar to my SA-31 which may be why it didn't engage me as much as the more intimate solid state amps.  But it didn't quite have the same out of head/holographic effect of that boutique tube amp.  The latter also was using some small tube dac as well.  The WA22 was very good on the technical side and maybe leaning more toward as solid statish sound than I would have thought with the HD800.  But like I said, I didn't feel I was able to evaluate it as well without my own music.  Here is a picture of that other tube amp.  It doesn't use a common tube combo, I think one of them is a 6900 (not 6922)


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

I have to agree with jwahl's impressions of the 800s with the junior burson. It was surprisingly good


----------



## TooPoor

So I finally have the PS DLIII and V200 hooked up (balanced) to the HD800's. So far so good, but I can definitely tell the obvious weak spot is the USB section. I have a PC laptop so I'm connected via USB. Can anyone recommend a USB-SPDIF converter? I trust you guys more than posting in the Sources section. Right now, I'm looking at the VLINK, but don't want to spend another couple hundred bucks (I'm being super cheap right now, I've spent all my money!)


----------



## dleblanc343

toopoor said:


> So I finally have the PS DLIII and V200 hooked up (balanced) to the HD800's. So far so good, but I can definitely tell the obvious weak spot is the USB section. I have a PC laptop so I'm connected via USB. Can anyone recommend a USB-SPDIF converter? I trust you guys more than posting in the Sources section. Right now, I'm looking at the VLINK, but don't want to spend another couple hundred bucks (I'm being super cheap right now, I've spent all my money!)



If you don't want to spend too much, nuforce makes a usb to optical converter


----------



## TooPoor

Well I say I don't, but as usual, I will end up spending too much(relatively speaking). I have a very modest setup right now. My next two purchases will be a USB/SPDIF converter and a new cable. I've tried so many setups and now just trying to get the most out of my HD800s without breaking the $1k barrier on any single piece of gear.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> So I finally have the PS DLIII and V200 hooked up (balanced) to the HD800's. So far so good, but I can definitely tell the obvious weak spot is the USB section. I have a PC laptop so I'm connected via USB. Can anyone recommend a USB-SPDIF converter? I trust you guys more than posting in the Sources section. Right now, I'm looking at the VLINK, but don't want to spend another couple hundred bucks (I'm being super cheap right now, I've spent all my money!)


 
   
  i use the PS DLIII with Vlink and am pretty happy with the results.


----------



## BleaK

Have someone here tried the DAC1 as DAC/AMP combo for the HD800? Can it work or is it too bright?


----------



## Taliesin

Has anyone tried the HD800 on the new WA7 or the Burson Conductor.


----------



## wink

Has anyone tried out the HD800 on a starving student?
   
  Did the starving student give it back without ramen stains on it?


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





wink said:


> Has anyone tried out the HD800 on a starving student?
> 
> Did the starving student give it back without ramen stains on it?


 
   
  Haaaa, so going to try that out! 
  I'll let you know


----------



## negura

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> Has anyone tried the HD800 on the new WA7 or the Burson Conductor.


 
   
  The Burson Conductor is an awesome match. Detailed, yet smooth, good body, transparent, neutral, dynamic, airy, great stoundstage.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> Has anyone tried the HD800 on the new WA7 or the Burson Conductor.


 
  I have HD800 paired with Burson Conductor. I found it to be a very nice match. I also wrote about it here. 
   
  My friend negura said it well :
   
   


negura said:


> The Burson Conductor is an awesome match. Detailed, yet smooth, good body, transparent, neutral, dynamic, airy, great stoundstage.


----------



## FraGGleR

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> So I finally have the PS DLIII and V200 hooked up (balanced) to the HD800's. So far so good, but I can definitely tell the obvious weak spot is the USB section. I have a PC laptop so I'm connected via USB. Can anyone recommend a USB-SPDIF converter? I trust you guys more than posting in the Sources section. Right now, I'm looking at the VLINK, but don't want to spend another couple hundred bucks (I'm being super cheap right now, I've spent all my money!)


 
  I tried the Nuforce spif adapter, but couldn't get it to work with Windows 8 and Foobar, worked nicely with my Windows 7 work computer, but that isn't where I needed it.  On my Nuforce HDP, it made a surprisingly large difference, particularly in the realism of the soundstage.  I ended up returning it, though since it didn't work on my home computer.  Excellent deal if you pick up a refurbished one for around $70.  
   
  I have been reading about the Musiland 2012 adapters and have read reviews that claim they can be superior to many costing hundreds more.  $75ish for the simpler one, $220 for the high end one that trumped the Hiface EVO, Audiophileo, etc.  Haven't tried one yet, but is on my list if I don't just upgrade my DAC outright.


----------



## philo50

Quote: 





negura said:


> The Burson Conductor is an awesome match. Detailed, yet smooth, good body, transparent, neutral, dynamic, airy, great stoundstage.


 
  +1


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *FraGGleR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> *I tried the Nuforce spif adapter, but couldn't get it to work with Windows 8 and Foobar, worked nicely with my Windows 7 work computer, but that isn't where I needed it.*


 
   
  I don't have the Nuforce USB-to-SPDIF converter, but ran into a similar Windows 8/driver compatibility issue with another converter recently (whos' drivers would supposedly only work under Windows 7).  What I did to get it to work on my Windows 8 laptop was to extract the converter's driver installer from the installation package's EXE and run it in "Windows 7" compatibility mode.  Worked like a charm for me.  Can't say if it'll work for the Nuforce unit.. but it's worth a shot.  Windows 7 & 8 aren't _all_ that different from an architectural standpoint, so I would think more times than not, Windows 7-compatible stuff should work.


----------



## RustA

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> I don't have the Nuforce USB-to-SPDIF converter, but ran into a similar Windows 8/driver compatibility issue with another converter recently (whos' drivers would supposedly only work under Windows 7).  What I did to get it to work on my Windows 8 laptop was to extract the converter's driver installer from the installation package's EXE and run it in "Windows 7" compatibility mode.  Worked like a charm for me.  Can't say if it'll work for the Nuforce unit.. but it's worth a shot.  Windows 7 & 8 aren't _all_ that different from an architectural standpoint, so I would think more times than not, Windows 7-compatible stuff should work.


 
   
  Yes, Nuforce products have problem with Windows 8 (personally tested with UDH-100).
   
  Btw, your tweak didn't work for me, tried it myself (Windows 8 64bit).


----------



## negura

Quote: 





philo50 said:


> +1


 
   
  How are you finding the Audiophileo compared to the Conductor's native USB?


----------



## philo50

Quote: 





negura said:


> How are you finding the Audiophileo compared to the Conductor's native USB?


 
  The truth be known I have never tried the usb.I am a big Audeophilleo fan and given the issues with the Conductors tenor application of the usb I saw no reason to put myself through that.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





philo50 said:


> The truth be known I have never tried the usb.I am a big Audeophilleo fan and given the issues with the Conductors tenor application of the usb I saw no reason to put myself through that.


 
   
  Probably a wise choice.  Maybe one day I will try a stand-alone interface to compare.


----------



## PleasantSounds

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> Has anyone tried the HD800 on the new WA7 or the Burson Conductor.


 
   
  I've had the HD800 paired with WA7 for the last 2 weeks. Can't really compare the WA7 to any gear discussed so far in this thread, but to my ears this combo really delivers. It's for the first time that while listening my attention is not drawn to some flaws in the sound and I can just enjoy the music. I'll spare you all the talk about detail, smoothness, dynamics etc. - it's all there, as much as one can ask for considering the price tag.


----------



## NightFlight

cante ista said:


> +1 anyone heard speakers that approach hd800 imaging, etc?





I heard a pair of speakers this last weekend that made the 800's sound like toys. That and a old modified Adcom DAC that wiped the floor with my bifrost. Sigh. But I learned what detail is. I got right schooled.


----------



## Senn-Fi

That's how I feel about my speakers compared to my HD800.  What speakers did you hear?


----------



## pervysage

What do you guys think of this color combo?
   

   
  I'm thinking of either getting that... or a different color for the rings such as red, blue or white. Going to keep everything else matte black.
   
  Also... any opinions on matte vs glossy for the 800's?


----------



## Landmantx

I thought about going red and black.


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





landmantx said:


> I thought about going red and black.


 

 I would do the same. My favorite colors are red, black and white sooo... 
  Go for a red ring


----------



## Maxvla

pervysage said:


> Planning to get a pair of HD800's in May. From what everyone has been saying, the best thing would be to go with a Colorware right from the beginning.
> 
> Found this picture of an all black (matte, I believe?) on the Colorware website gallery and think it's drool worthy
> 
> ...



That one might be mine. No way to tell from that picture though. I say go matte black.


----------



## Solude

My favourite colour is green so I bought straight from Germany


----------



## RedBull

nightflight said:


> I heard a pair of speakers this last weekend that made the 800's sound like toys. That and a old modified Adcom DAC that wiped the floor with my bifrost. Sigh. But I learned what detail is. I got right schooled.




That certainly individual preference. I never like speaker presentation except a pair of Martin Logan or Sanders.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Matte black and then pick whatever ring color you want. I personally don't like yellow, but that's just me.
   
  Really didn't like the gloss look, but I haven't on any gear, so again...just me.
   
  Quote: 





pervysage said:


> What do you guys think of this color combo?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> What do you guys think of this color combo?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I like this combo, and it makes sense somehow: yellow is a very bright color , in contrast with black.
   
  Maybe I'd replace the black with some dark blue, and you'd get a very contrasted blue yellow opposition.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> What do you guys think of this color combo?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: pic
> ...


 
   
  Aside from Colorware indicating that their gloss paint is more durable, I would definitely suggest the matte finish.  It just looks better.  Plus I've seen Maxvla's pair up close, and the matte finish still seemed significantly more durable than the stock finish.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Agreed on the finish on Chris' cans.

 Top notch.
   
  Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> Aside from Colorware indicating that their gloss paint is more durable, I would definitely suggest the matte finish.  It just looks better.  Plus I've seen Maxvla's pair up close, and the matte finish still seemed significantly more durable than the stock finish.


----------



## preproman

I see a pair with the glossy finish that says othewise.


----------



## FraGGleR

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I see a pair with the glossy finish that says othewise.


 
  Beauties!  The silk on those cables have a nice sheen that goes well with the glossy.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I see a pair with the glossy finish that says othewise.


 
   
  I would never pay a premium for paint colour but the matte certainly is more coherent top to bottom.  The glossy pops where the unpainted areas are subtle.


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





solude said:


> I would never pay a premium for paint colour but the matte certainly is more coherent top to bottom.  The glossy pops where the unpainted areas are subtle.


 
  Well, if your already going to pay the $1500 retail than the "free" paint job isn't a bad deal.  Unless your buying direct from Germany like you said earlier.  It's especially better long term if the colorware paint is more durable than stock.


----------



## M-13

Personally... I would get glossy white (diamond white) everywhere with blue rings. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Black is cool, but it's also boring and ubiquitous.
   
  Also I was thinking I could mimic the original colors of the HD800, by going black headband, and then "steel" color for the grey part of the HD800.
   
  On a side note. I think it's ridiculous Sennheiser can't use better quality paint that won't chip or peel. I had this problem with two HD650s and people dealing with the same problem on a $1500 Sennheiser Flagship in 2013 is just ridiculous. I hope it's good for the enviornment paint or some other logic behind it. - End of Rant -


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *M-13* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> On a side note. I think it's ridiculous Sennheiser can't use better quality paint that won't chip or peel. I had this problem with two HD650s and people dealing with the same problem on a $1500 Sennheiser Flagship in 2013 is just ridiculous. I hope it's good for the enviornment paint or some other logic behind it. - End of Rant -


 
   
  its so im constantly tempted to sell my hd 800s and rebuy them brand new in pink/white


----------



## MorbidToaster

I don't.
   
  Quote: 





preproman said:


> I see a pair with the glossy finish that says othewise.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I don't.


 
   
  I do - that's all that matters  - because they're mine..


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> I would never pay a premium for paint colour but the matte certainly is more coherent top to bottom.  The glossy pops where the unpainted areas are subtle.


 
   
  I didn't pay a premium.  I paid the regular MSRP and got the paint job for free


----------



## MorbidToaster

preproman said:


> I do - that's all that matters  - because they're mine..




Very true.


----------



## Solude

It's a world market.  If the local market doesn't want to compete it's not my problem.  The other reality is that like changing a car from stock to something personal... resale suffers.  But the point is that retailers can clearly sell it for the same price as the EU and make money but choose not to.  I understand they have to respect the minimum listed price, but that doesn't mean they can't sell it for less.  If Colorware can paint them and sell them for the MSRP then the others can certainly afford to eat the difference.  I paid $1105 for mine, to my door, taxes in.  Couldn't be happier


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> its so im constantly tempted to sell my hd 800s and rebuy them brand new in pink/white


 
  My girlfriend wants one in all diamond white with a pink ring (glossy).


----------



## DefQon

I reckon jet black and red looks pretty awesome too. Give a new colour change from the regular silver and black themes.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> It's a world market.  If the local market doesn't want to compete it's not my problem.  The other reality is that like changing a car from stock to something personal... resale suffers.  But the point is that retailers can clearly sell it for the same price as the EU and make money but choose not to.  I understand they have to respect the minimum listed price, but that doesn't mean they can't sell it for less.  If Colorware can paint them and sell them for the MSRP then the others can certainly afford to eat the difference.  I paid $1105 for mine, to my door, taxes in.  Couldn't be happier


 
   
   
  I bet you my $100 to your dime mine or a all black matt will sale faster a few years down the road.  One reason would be paint chips.  If you're not really, really careful the stock paint job sucks and will chip for no reason at all "seems like".
   
  Like others, this is my second pair.  First pair sold for what I paid for them so I just added a little bit more for the paint job.  I really couldn't be happier - I think this was the best more to make.  "For me" anyway..


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





solude said:


> It's a world market.  If the local market doesn't want to compete it's not my problem.  The other reality is that like changing a car from stock to something personal... resale suffers.  But the point is that retailers can clearly sell it for the same price as the EU and make money but choose not to.  I understand they have to respect the minimum listed price, but that doesn't mean they can't sell it for less.  If Colorware can paint them and sell them for the MSRP then the others can certainly afford to eat the difference.  I paid $1105 for mine, to my door, taxes in.  Couldn't be happier


 
  Oh, but the local market does want to compete, just Sennheiser doesn't want them to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They don't want people to start having the perception that the HD800 is in the same league as the LCD-2 and T1.  I assume your referring to buying them from Meier Audio, he even advertised the lower price for awhile but I'm sure Sennheiser made him take it down.  It is unfortunate that the NA retail is basically EU price + VAT even without actually having the VAT apply.  I'm sure there are local vendors willing to work around the MSRP, either under the table or perhaps offering "free cable upgrades" or the like.  $1100 new certainly seems like a fair price to me, given their elite performance.  I've never quite understand the MSRP price fixing though, Sennheiser is making the same per headphone regardless of how much a vendor sells it for I would imagine.
   
  Sennheiser isn't alone in this though.  The Fostex TH-900 is $500 cheaper in Japan, SR-009 nearly $2,000 cheaper, and other examples exist as well.


----------



## M-13

Margins on headphones are about 40% 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 same as luxury watches. So a dealer giving you 20% off is not a big deal for them. Giving you a free paint job and throwing in next day shipping still puts them way above water. Say "Hi" to your Rolex dealer for me too.


----------



## DefQon

Each to there own but I strongly agree with preproman after owning the HD800's 3 times. They chip for no apparent reason unless literally you wear a nuke suit with special gloves handling them with care like one would with a 50 carat diamond.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Not literally, no. 

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/literally


----------



## Kenion

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Each to there own but I strongly agree with preproman after owning the HD800's 3 times. They chip for no apparent reason unless literally you wear a nuke suit with special gloves handling them with care like one would with a 50 carat diamond.


 

 Thats odd... I own mine for around 2 years now and it still looks like new. I'm not using a headphone stand either. However, I always make sure to drop them very gently on the desk, where its mainly contacting the surface with the earpad's foam, not the housing. Guess that does the trick for me.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





kenion said:


> Thats odd... I own mine for around 2 years now and it still looks like new. I'm not using a headphone stand either. However, I always make sure to drop them very gently on the desk, where its mainly contacting the surface with the earpad's foam, not the housing. Guess that does the trick for me.


 
  Lucky you, my first pair which is an earlier S/N based model had 1 or 2 chips on the bottom of the side housing where it rests on my audio rack. Then I purchased a new pair with a 1XXXX serial number to compare the sound and found very subtle differences. Scared of damaging it I sold it off for the price I purchased them to recoup funds for other things. Eventually I sold off my earlier S/N pair for around the same price I purchased them and bought purrins used one which has a fair amount of chips and scratches but not really bothered, still have them to this day. I do plan on buying a new 2XXXX S/N one colorwared someday.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *JWahl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I've never quite understand the MSRP price fixing though, Sennheiser is making the same per headphone regardless of how much a vendor sells it for I would imagine.
> 
> Sennheiser isn't alone in this though.  The Fostex TH-900 is $500 cheaper in Japan, SR-009 nearly $2,000 cheaper, and other examples exist as well.


 
   
  It's not the sale price that is fixed, it's the minimum advertised price.  Which is to say everyone in NA has put the listed price on their site at $1499.95.  But like they did for the HD650 they can also have a email us for the real price type thing.  But since internet sales are on a rise and walking in and haggling is down... a lot of people just accept whatever is listed so not a whole lot of incentive for retail to drop the price for everyone just to get the minority who will seek out the source outside the country.
   
  Stax is a great example.  Buying from outside Japan is just nuts.  That extra $2K buys you the privilege of being ignored by Yama when you need service /facepalm  When my O2 MkI needed service Yama didn't reply until after I had given up on them, shipped them to the UK, had them fixed and shipped back.  UK didn't care that they were a Japan unit.  They get paid to repair them, they couldn't care less what market they were purchased in.


----------



## Maxvla

defqon said:


> Each to there own but I strongly agree with preproman after owning the HD800's 3 times. They chip for no apparent reason unless literally you wear a nuke suit with special gloves handling them with care like one would with a 50 carat diamond.



Why would you be careful with a diamond? Anything you drop it on or scrape it against would take damage and the diamond would be fine.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Why would you be careful with a diamond? Anything you drop it on or scrape it against would take damage and the diamond would be fine.


 
  But it's so precious.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





defqon said:


> But it's so precious.


 
  Can we eats it precious!


----------



## rawrster

Has anyone tried a balanced dynalo with the HD800? I'm thinking of getting one built in a few months after I recover from some recent spending.


----------



## ValentinHogea

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> Has anyone tried a balanced dynalo with the HD800? I'm thinking of getting one built in a few months after I recover from some recent spending.


 
  Why a Dynalo when you can do a Dynahi?


----------



## rawrster

LOL 
   
  A dynalo would be much easier to commission. Dynamite would probably take much longer and cost much more.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





valentinhogea said:


> Why a Dynalo when you can do a Dynahi?


 
   
   
  Are the on board heat sink boards ready yet?


----------



## hrbballman

I've really been contemplating getting a pair of these recently but Im afraid it won't pair well with my phonitor. It seems like many of the hd800 owners have tube amps but I love the phonitor to much to get something else. Does anyone pair there hd800s with a phonitor and, if so, what do you think? Thanks!


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





hrbballman said:


> I've really been contemplating getting a pair of these recently but Im afraid it won't pair well with my phonitor. It seems like many of the hd800 owners have tube amps but I love the phonitor to much to get something else. Does anyone pair there hd800s with a phonitor and, if so, what do you think? Thanks!


 

 The best pairing around. 'nuff said.


----------



## LifeAspect

my moon audio cable arrived ^^


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





lifeaspect said:


> my moon audio cable arrived ^^


 
  nice. Please post some impressions. Drew does great work.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





lifeaspect said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Nice LS50's! Are you using them as near field monitors?


----------



## LifeAspect

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Nice LS50's! Are you using them as near field monitors?


 
  sadly I am.
   
  They are great as near field speakers though, but I reckon they would sound even better with proper spacing between them.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





lifeaspect said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I am curious about how low they can go for their size. The reviews are great for them.


----------



## mink70

I've been looking for an end-game amp for my Hd800 and tried several very pricey ones. Then last week I traded some Beyers for a stock Matrix M-Stage. I have to say that it sounds obscenely good with the HD800. Better, in fact, than many expensive amps. Out-of-head imaging and rich, fleshy sound. A really compelling combination. I've tricked out my Crack with super-rare tubes and was considering Speedball and cap upgrades, but it doesn't even come close to the cheap little Matrix. And I detest solid-state. Interestingly, the Matrix sounds congested and unexciting with the HD650, but is magical with the HD800. Of course I can hear the grain and lack of total clarity and air, compared to, say, the Stratus, but so what. Most amps simply sound boring with the HD800—they make the phones sound threadbare and gray. I'm beginning to think that the HD800 simply pairs well with a few amps it likes and doesn't with many more. And the expensive ones don't necessarily come out ahead.


----------



## BournePerfect

Not suprised. The m-Stage is a ridiculously good match for the K70x series, which have a lot in common with the Senn imo. P86 also claims the HD800/m-Stage combo is extremely synergistic. Do you plan on trying various opamps?

-Daniel


----------



## FraGGleR

Quote: 





mink70 said:


> I've been looking for an end-game amp for my Hd800 and tried several very pricey ones. Then last week I traded some Beyers for a stock Matrix M-Stage. I have to say that it sounds obscenely good with the HD800. Better, in fact, than many expensive amps. Out-of-head imaging and rich, fleshy sound. A really compelling combination. I've tricked out my Crack with super-rare tubes and was considering Speedball and cap upgrades, but it doesn't even come close to the cheap little Matrix. And I detest solid-state. Interestingly, the Matrix sounds congested and unexciting with the HD650, but is magical with the HD800. Of course I can hear the grain and lack of total clarity and air, compared to, say, the Stratus, but so what. Most amps simply sound boring with the HD800—they make the phones sound threadbare and gray. I'm beginning to think that the HD800 simply pairs well with a few amps it likes and doesn't with many more. And the expensive ones don't necessarily come out ahead.


 
  Nice find.  According to most reports, though, you haven't heard what your Crack can do until you have added the Speedball.  Several people who, like you, have tried some very expensive gear, have said that the Crack with Speedball is one of the best pairings with an HD800 they have heard.  Have to move up to Eddie Current type amps to do better.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





fraggler said:


> Nice find.  According to most reports, though, you haven't heard what your Crack can do until you have added the Speedball.  Several people who, like you, have tried some very expensive gear, have said that the Crack with Speedball is one of the best pairings with an HD800 they have heard.  Have to move up to Eddie Current type amps to do better.


 
   
  *ahem* Decware would be the first stop before EC.


----------



## LugBug1

I also think that the Senn's sound very good with the M-stage. I've tried the two most popular opamps Opa627 bias and LM4562, these both add a nice but very subtle change in refinement. But I also think that my Audio gd C2.2 (with opa627 fitted) is better. Another cheap SS amp. Larger, airier soundstage and is slightly warmer. I've mentioned before that this amp is very 'tube like' in its presentation. The M-stage can sound a little more aggressive at the top and the overall tone sounds a fraction cheaper in comparison. And by 'sounds cheaper' y'all know wodda mean right??  
   
  I am going to be looking at tubes with the HD800's though, as in the past my journey with the 650's climaxed with the aid of a very powerful otl amp that ringed every ounce of goodness out of them. But until I can afford something special, I am very happy with the sound I'm getting with the Audio gd, and I'd recommend it whole heartedly to anyone on a budget as an alternative to the M-stage. 
   
  Must be said however, the M-stage is a great amp for the price. A remarkable bargain. But, just like when you are getting acquainted with a new lover for example, and everything seems to be going swimmingly.. Certain little 'quirks' that have been registered can soon turn to annoyance if not 'nipped in the bud', so to speak.
  For instance, a slight hardness discovered in the treble of a cheapo amp might not be dissimilar to a lover indulging in a little 'playfulness' on a certain sensitive area and (whether by accident or intention) allows their teeth to get involved.... Nooo nooo. Sorry but no.
  This for me is why the treble sensitive HD800's require a little heedfulness within that area, because a small but niggly annoyance can soon lead to all-out irritation.
   
  imo..


----------



## jazzerdave

fraggler said:


> Nice find.  According to most reports, though, you haven't heard what your Crack can do until you have added the Speedball.  Several people who, like you, have tried some very expensive gear, have said that the Crack with Speedball is one of the best pairings with an HD800 they have heard.  Have to move up to Eddie Current type amps to do better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I might be biased, but I definitely agree with Nick here.  I think my Liquid Glass is as good as it gets with the HD800 (others are great as well, it becomes more about preference rather than actually better), and the Decware only gives up a little at < 1/3 the price.


----------



## mink70

Can you be specific? Which Decware? I heard Frank's Taboo III at the New York meet, and while it was very good, it didn't strike me as a natural pairing with the HD800. 
   
  Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> *ahem* Decware would be the first stop before EC.


----------



## mink70

Just ordered the OPA627 biased into class A on an adapter from Tam Audio. Interested in the results. Anyone who's tried care to share?
   
  Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Not suprised. The m-Stage is a ridiculously good match for the K70x series, which have a lot in common with the Senn imo. P86 also claims the HD800/m-Stage combo is extremely synergistic. Do you plan on trying various opamps?
> 
> -Daniel


----------



## mink70

Also, I have a DNA Sonett 2 arriving soon for a listen, which is the Decware ballpark price-wise, and Donald North mentioned that he had voiced it with an HD800, among other phones. He thought they worked well together. Will report. Anyone heard the pairing?
  Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> *ahem* Decware would be the first stop before EC.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

I haven't heard the Taboo MKIII, but I didn't like the Taboo MKII with HD800 at all... so I can't comment. I'm not optimistic but time will tell. The Taboo was designed for lower-impedance cans.
   
  Decware recommendation is using the CSP+ OTL/preamp with the HD800. Beautiful match, especially for the price.


----------



## mink70

you went there...
   
  Quote: 





> For instance, a slight hardness discovered in the treble of a cheapo amp might not be dissimilar to a lover indulging in a little 'playfulness' on a certain sensitive area and (whether by accident or intention) allows their teeth to get involved.... Nooo nooo. Sorry but no.


----------



## mink70

Still haven't heard a CSP+. Maybe someday.
  Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> I haven't heard the Taboo MKIII, but I didn't like the Taboo MKII with HD800 at all... so I can't comment. I'm not optimistic but time will tell. The Taboo was designed for lower-impedance cans.
> 
> Decware recommendation is using the CSP+ OTL/preamp with the HD800. Beautiful match, especially for the price.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





mink70 said:


> Just ordered the OPA627 biased into class A on an adapter from Tam Audio. Interested in the results. Anyone who's tried care to share?


 
  I think the opa627 bias mod is defo an upgrade from stock. But don't expect a different sounding amp. My recommendation is for the LM4562 and I think sounds a little (and I mean little) more defined and clearer. Knowing what "class A" does to this amp probably doesn't affect the sound quality imo. If it was dual mono then you would get better results from a great opamp such as the opa627. But most quality opamps only give very subtle changes when swapping, so a pinch of salt is required with my opinion.


----------



## jazzerdave

mink70 said:


> Can you be specific? Which Decware? I heard Frank's Taboo III at the New York meet, and while it was very good, it didn't strike me as a natural pairing with the HD800.




I wasn't specific either. I also meant the CSP2+. The Taboo mk2 Nick mentioned was mine, but I've also got a CSP2+ of my own. It's an excellent match for the HD800.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> I wasn't specific either. I also meant the CSP2+. The Taboo mk2 Nick mentioned was mine, but I've also got a CSP2+ of my own. It's an excellent match for the HD800.


 
   
  CSP2+! I must get my naming conventions right... CSP2+ it is.
   
  I much prefer the CSP2+ flying solo. Not a fan of coupling it to the Taboo and running the HD800 from there. Transparency suffers for it, IMHO.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> CSP2+! I must get my naming conventions right... CSP2+ it is.
> 
> I much prefer the CSP2+ flying solo. Not a fan of coupling it to the Taboo and running the HD800 from there. Transparency suffers for it, IMHO.


 
   
  It certainly did.  It's also not a great match solo.  That being said, we didn't really spend any time rolling tubes or messing with the trim pots on the CSP2+.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> The Taboo was designed for lower-impedance cans.


 
   
  Speakers actually and released nearly a decade ago.  Then someone ordered one custom with a 1/4" jack and voila an ortho amp is born /facepalm


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





solude said:


> Speakers actually and released nearly a decade ago.  Then someone ordered one custom with a 1/4" jack and voila an ortho amp is born /facepalm


 
   
  That someone is Frank I, and why the facepalm?


----------



## Frank I

Nick I spoke with Steve about the design in several conversations and actually he used both low impedance and and 250 ohm Beyers in voicing the taboo. it is designed to work with headphones from 8-600  ohms and I though enough of the new Taboo Mk111 using the hD800 to sell my CSP2. I am very satisfied with the performance of the taboo with the Mk 111. Steve listens to both low and high impedance cans with the Taboo.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Pardon... "appears" to favor lower impedance cans based upon the testing I have performed with Grados, Senns, HiFiMans, and LCD-2/3 in which the quality of the lower-impedance headphones performed better than expected but did not scale in similar fashion with higher impedance headphones. It may be that other, previously untested high-impedance models may behave differently. Such as the aforementioned Beyers. As always, YMMV.
   
  Better? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Reserving final judgment until the next meet. Good chance of seeing a MKIII here.


----------



## mink70

Has anyone heard the DNA Sonett or the Sonett 2 with the HD800? Curious how it compares to the Decware stuff.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> That someone is Frank I, and why the facepalm?


 
   
  Pretty sure it was Skylab but would have to go back some years to verify.  Frank has the MkIII.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





solude said:


> Pretty sure it was Skylab but would have to go back some years to verify.  Frank has the MkIII.


 
  To confirm, it was Frank. Rob had the Mini Tori.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mink70 said:


> Has anyone heard the DNA Sonett or the Sonett 2 with the HD800? Curious how it compares to the Decware stuff.


 
  The Taboo holds up well with the DNA Stratus when the stratus has stock tubes. With the EML 2A3 the Stratus really steppe up a notch. I brought Donalds amp there as i had it for  a week. I bought one and am waiting fro Donald to built it. with are  excellent amps but with the upgraded tubes you talking 3400,00 for the Stratus but its the only amp you will ever need except if your nuts like me. I have three amps with that and now considering a 4th amp also.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> To confirm, it was Frank. Rob had the Mini Tori.


 
   
  Could have sworn he started with the Taboo and moved up to the Torii?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





solude said:


> Speakers actually and released nearly a decade ago.  Then someone ordered one custom with a 1/4" jack and voila an ortho amp is born /facepalm


 
  The Taboo was a speaker amp. I asked Steve to put the first headphone jack in for the LCD2  and then he sold lots of them and rethought the Taboo is now redesigned from ground up more for headphones. I have speakers hooked up to it also.  It was a good idea when I asked him to do it and thats why most owners have KEPT them, . The amp is that good and not many come up for sale. I sold my origin one when I got rid og the original LCD 1 and the he500 and went with all high impedance cans. The new oone is a slight improvement and uses  a nice driver tube. Rob had the mini torri done. I owned the cSP2 so the Taboo was designed to work with them also.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





solude said:


> Could have sworn he started with the Taboo and moved up to the Torii?


 
  Started out with the CSP-2, then the Tori. (Why do I know this?)


----------



## Solude

My bad, it was the CSP2 Rob had first.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Started out with the CSP-2, then the Tori. (Why do I know this?)


 
   
  Signs we need to get out more... hmm JH IEMs maybe


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





solude said:


> Signs we need to get out more... hmm JH IEMs maybe


 
  Spring is finally here a pair of JH13s would really fit the bill.


----------



## Frank I

Or UE Pro Signature monitors


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Or UE Pro Signature monitors


 
  Yep...they look like winners too!


----------



## esn89

which engineer over at senn decided that 1000000 meter cable would be a good idea anyways?


----------



## technica18

I'm reading a lot of conflicting opinions but between the HD800 and T1 which has the more full bodied and warmer sound with smooth and non-fatiguing treble?


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





technica18 said:


> I'm reading a lot of conflicting opinions but between the HD800 and T1 which has the more full bodied and warmer sound with smooth and non-fatiguing treble?


 
  T1. But the HD800 is a different level once amped right. Kind of reminds me both don't have any sort of resemblance in sound whatsoever.


----------



## MorbidToaster

technica18 said:


> I'm reading a lot of conflicting opinions but between the HD800 and T1 which has the more full bodied and warmer sound with smooth and non-fatiguing treble?







defqon said:


> T1. But the HD800 is a different level once amped right. Kind of reminds me both don't have any sort of resemblance in sound whatsoever.




Absolutely not (IMO I guess)...The T1 was sibilant and extremely fatiquing when I heard them. The HD800 with the right amp does all of that though. 

That actually sounds like the HD800 witha good tube amp. The T1 sounded harsh on both amps I tried them with.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





technica18 said:


> I'm reading a lot of conflicting opinions but between the HD800 and T1 which has the more full bodied and warmer sound with smooth and non-fatiguing treble?


 
   
  None. There's no warm sound to be had here, unless you tune your upstream gear for them like that. Also both will be sibilant and harsh with anything less than great upstream gear and on brighter recordings.
   
  For warmer high quality sound with good detail but non-fatiguing treble we've got team Audeze. The LCD-2 can even do good enough amped from a kettle. 
   
  That said my main headphones are the HD800s, but I do go to the Audeze quite a lot depending on mood/recording/genre. The T1s got sold after a few weeks.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Absolutely not (IMO I guess)...The T1 was sibilant and extremely fatiquing when I heard them. The HD800 with the right amp does all of that though.
> 
> That actually sounds like the HD800 witha good tube amp. The T1 sounded harsh on both amps I tried them with.


 
  Well the only available amp I had on hand to try the T1 way back was the Concerto and a 160 which sounded great with the HD650 but it was ok with the T1. For most people the HD800 without proper high end or a synergistic pairing the sound signature would be fatiguing to them due to that happy treble peak and that's where my statement was coming from. A well powered HD800 with the suitable amp would be levels ahead of the T1 and the T1 just needs a good amount of current for that 600ohm + impedence while the HD800 is a finicky bitch to amp, but rewarding once a perfect companion is made.


----------



## Frank I

Owning the hD 800 and LCD 2.2 and had the T1 twice. I find them all very system dependent. The HD800 and the T1 IMO sound best with Tube amplifiers. I also prefer them listening to a great source. I have never found the T1 or theHD800  harsh in my system and I also stress  system because you need to pay attention to the interconnect  and USB cables as well. When the system is right the T1 and HD800 are reference can and IMO compete with any headphone at any price.  If you want to hear accurate and detail and exactly what a recording is doing or more important for me also is what a component is doing the T1 and HD800  are valuable reference headphones. The LCD2 is more forgiving and has that famous warmer planar tone that keep you addicted.  They are all fantastic headphones.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





			
				Frank I said:
			
		

> *Frank I*





frank i said:


> I also stress  system because you need to pay attention to the interconnect  and USB cables as well.


 
   
  I much concur Frank's reply but in particular with the above, which some people tend to ignore knowing or unknowingly. This is something I can confirm especially after the head-fi meet today. I would also add headphones cables to this list as very important.
   
  Now there's a downside with tuning your system to suit some heapdhones, as you may find it improperly tuned for some others. Unless you own multiple sets of gear and ... and here we go.  Tube rolling could be a good work-around though. Some will love tuning their system and some won't. Everyone to their own. I am in the first camp.
   
  No disadvatanges with getting a nice headphone cable with great synergy for your headphones though. Other than cost.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Absolutely not (IMO I guess)...The T1 was sibilant and extremely fatiquing when I heard them. The HD800 with the right amp does all of that though.
> 
> That actually sounds like the HD800 witha good tube amp. The T1 sounded harsh on both amps I tried them with.


 

 T1 has some ringing going on in the treble region, so yeah, on bright material they are harsher than HD800.


----------



## silversurfer616

Cables are a sensitive topic here...


----------



## negura

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> Cables are a sensitive topic here...


 
   
  Thanks. I am aware and perhaps it should be desensitized a little bit.  I would never intentionally withold information that I think benefits everyone's audio experience. 
   
  We are are just coming off a meet where some of us and more importantly some very qualified people made a certain assessment on this topic. Enjoy the read and the video from around 4:35, http://www.head-fi.org/t/661573/london-head-fi-meet-april-2013
   
  The differences and improvements those headphones cables made compared to stock, were noticeable and not one person disputed this. Including several cables sceptics. All it took was to just listen.
   
  That said, on any given topic in this world you won't get everyone to agree. But I accept that and YMMV and the usual filler stuff.


----------



## technica18

I had to put off my HD800 order for now but I did have a chance to check one out today. I first plugged them into the Lyr and they were seriously shrill and V shaped like the K702 I had. My ears started to get sore after about 10 minutes. Then I plugged them into the Soloist SL and wow what a difference. Everything smoothed out and most of the harshness and sibilance in the treble was gone. It did lose a slight amount of bass quantity but the quality went up. The only thing I'm hesitant about is that on some tracks they still can't provide that low end thump and groove like the LCD-2. Overall though I was very surprised at the different the amp made.

By the way is it possible to lessen the clamping by bending the headband? I didn't want to do it the ones I tried out since they weren't mine.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

frank i said:


> Owning the hD 800 and LCD 2.2 and had the T1 twice. I find them all very system dependent. The HD800 and the T1 IMO sound best with Tube amplifiers. I also prefer them listening to a great source. I have never found the T1 or theHD800  harsh in my system and I also stress  system because you need to pay attention to the interconnect  and USB cables as well. *When the system is right the T1 and HD800 are reference can and IMO compete with any headphone at any price. * If you want to hear accurate and detail and exactly what a recording is doing or more important for me also is what a component is doing the T1 and HD800  are valuable reference headphones. The *LCD2 *is more forgiving and has that *famous warmer planar tone* that keep you addicted.  _*They are all fantastic headphones.*_


 

   
  +1 
   
  i find T1 and HD 800 can both be smooth and non-fatiguing with the right amp.


----------



## silversurfer616

Quote: 





negura said:


> Thanks. I am aware and perhaps it should be desensitized a little bit.  I would never intentionally withold information that I think benefits everyone's audio experience.
> 
> We are are just coming off a meet where some of us and more importantly some very qualified people made a certain assessment on this topic. Enjoy the read and the video from around 4:35, http://www.head-fi.org/t/661573/london-head-fi-meet-april-2013
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the link....and I am a cable convert myself ever since I used a Cardas for my HD800 and most obvious a ALO chain mail for the hopeless Audeze cable.And then not to mention the interconnects etc.....great expensive fun but soooo worth it....if you ONLY listen with your ears!


----------



## magiccabbage

great video link i hadnt seen that one  silversurfer616


----------



## Maxvla

technica18 said:


> I had to put off my HD800 order for now but I did have a chance to check one out today. I first plugged them into the Lyr and they were seriously shrill and V shaped like the K702 I had. My ears started to get sore after about 10 minutes. Then I plugged them into the Soloist SL and wow what a difference. Everything smoothed out and most of the harshness and sibilance in the treble was gone. It did lose a slight amount of bass quantity but the quality went up. The only thing I'm hesitant about is that on some tracks they still can't provide that low end thump and groove like the LCD-2. Overall though I was very surprised at the different the amp made.
> 
> By the way is it possible to lessen the clamping by bending the headband? I didn't want to do it the ones I tried out since they weren't mine.



In a properly complemented system, the HD800 has better bass than the LCD-2. I know because I had them both side by side.

Lessen the clamp? HD800s are by far the most comfortable full size headphone out there. Not sure what you were doing, but you had to have had them on wrong.


----------



## silversurfer616

Also have right now the HD800 and LCD2 Rev2 both with a balanced ALO chain mail through a Phoenix and NFB17.32 DAC.....and I like the Sennheiser so much more.
  Soundstage and clarity.....and lots of bass and wonderful treble(I hate Grados).


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> ....and wonderful treble(I hate Grados).


 
  Haha. Just had to.


----------



## LugBug1

Also, you don't need uber high end gear for the HD800's to shine imo. I have a big warm sound from mine on my mid price ss amps and dacs. A little too warm on occasion... The treble is detailed and well extended, but there is no fatigue involved. (unless you are listening to 1950's jazz perhaps, but even an LCD2 would struggle here) Nothing compared to say AKG, Grado, Beyer, Denon. 
   
  Still baffles me all the talk of harshness... Don't think my 42 year old ears are _that_ shot. I still find all the other treble centric phones fatiguing


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *Maxvla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Lessen the clamp? HD800s are by far the most comfortable full size headphone out there. Not sure what you were doing, but you had to have had them on wrong.


 
   
  I actually wish the HD800 had a _tighter_ clamp... this is probably my only "gripe" with the HD800.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> In a properly complemented system, the HD800 has better bass than the LCD-2. I know because I had them both side by side.
> 
> Lessen the clamp? HD800s are by far the most comfortable full size headphone out there. Not sure what you were doing, but you had to have had them on wrong.


 
   
  I am very satisied with my HD800 bass and it is top notch, but not sure it's better than the LCD-2s. And I think I did complement my system well enough. I personally think there's a certain extension and texture that has this one go to the LCD-2s. There is also more bass quantity I think.
   
  I agree regarding the clamp, the HD800s are the epitome of confort. Sometimes they make you forget you're wearing them. But I guess there's always something that's not gonna work for someone. I just want to make sure this is how it's understood by people who are potentially helped in their decisions reading these threads.


----------



## RedBull

The bass of hd800 is like I can hear the vibration of the drum membrane, the air coming out from the drum cylinder, some bass sound slightly boxy, rather than just 'dung dang dung' ... amazing ... That's! what I called texture.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





defqon said:


> T1. But the HD800 is a different level once amped right.


 
   
  HD800 is on another level at all times.  The T1 is a terrible headphone, or more precisely, a 'me too' headphone that performs worse than every other 'real' Beyer.  The T1 has a very high noise floor, rings like crazy, has high distortion and in relation to the question, is drier and has a rough spikey treble.  There's a reason the hype train on the T1 hasn't survived over the years.


----------



## wink

Swannee River by Michael Kaeshammer from his first album Blue Keys has bass notes on the piano that growl.
   
  Of all my headphones, the HD800 are he only ones that can reproduce the subharmonics.
   
  I have stood behind pianists and used to revel in the sonics.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





solude said:


> HD800 is on another level at all times.  The T1 is a terrible headphone, or more precisely, a 'me too' headphone that performs worse than every other 'real' Beyer.  The T1 has a very high noise floor, rings like crazy, has high distortion and in relation to the question, is drier and has a rough spikey treble.  There's a reason the hype train on the T1 hasn't survived over the years.


 
  I didn't mind the T1. But agreed the HD800 is a lot better.


----------



## magiccabbage

> The T1 is a terrible headphone, or more precisely, a 'me too' headphone that performs worse than every other 'real' Beyer.


 
   
  i presume you tried it with tubes right? i was under the impression that the t1 sounds amazing with tubes.


----------



## magiccabbage

Solude  
                               
  did you not like the wa22 with the t1s?


----------



## negura

Quote: 





solude said:


> HD800 is on another level at all times.  The T1 is a terrible headphone, or more precisely, a 'me too' headphone that performs worse than every other 'real' Beyer.  The T1 has a very high noise floor, rings like crazy, has high distortion and in relation to the question, is drier and has a rough spikey treble.  There's a reason the hype train on the T1 hasn't survived over the years.


 
   
  Warning:
  The above may sound quite harsh, and by that I don't mean Solude's comment. 
   
  My T1s got sold within the month, never been impressed...


----------



## magiccabbage

you have used them with tubes negura


----------



## Solude

Tubes won't somehow manage to cancel out the ringing and noise from the housing.  You might well enjoy the sound, but that doesn't make it high performance.


----------



## magiccabbage

i wish there were a place where i could hear them plugged into a wa2. they were gonna be my next headphone but now i dunno. this site can be bad for that. one minute your sure about something then the more you read themore  uncertain you become! what to do?


----------



## DefQon

And the Wa22 ain't much of a stellar amp for the T1's either.


----------



## negura

magiccabbage said:


> you have used them with tubes negura


 

   

  I've listened to my T1s on the V200, which is a very good SS amp, warmer and smooth sounding. It emulates the tube sound a bit. The DAC I was pairing them at the time had tubes and also warmer smooth sounding. The issue was not with the amping is it has very good synergy with the T1s to start with as many would attest. I just don't like the headphones, for several SQ reasons: whatever you'd normally do they still have a hot sounding treble where they shouldn't. The voices were distant sounding, and that was not that recording as my other high-end headphones don't do that.
   
  If you're dead set to tune your gear to make the headphones sound better, you could, if you've got that leverage. You could even get the T1s to sound brilliant I am sure. I just don't want to mess the setup that much stuff considering I have other gear I am fully enjoying out of the box or almost. Then there's the price - the T1s are overpriced for what they do.
   
  The HD800s treble can also sound bright sometimes, and many times it's from the recording, and a bit related to the headphone cup materials. But with no mods/no fine tuning, I definetely much more enjoy the HD800s  treble than the T1s.


----------



## preproman

I very much like my HD800s better than my T1s "in all areas".  However, I don't have a noise or ringing issue with my pair of T1s that I can detect.  It might show up in the plots and graphs "sure" but that doesn't mean it will rear it's ugly head in my listening sessions.  
   
  IMO the T1's are a good headphone just not on the level of the HD800s.


----------



## Pudu

magiccabbage said:


> i wish there were a place where i could hear them plugged into a wa2. they were gonna be my next headphone but now i dunno. this site can be bad for that. one minute your sure about something then the more you read themore  uncertain you become! what to do?




Take everything you read here with a Dead Sea of salt. Everyone has an opinion and some are expressed with a large degree of hyperbole.

Mine is that the T1 is definitely not a terrible headphone. If you like a lush, full, sound that is musical but still resolving, and you already have a WA2, you should try to test out the T1. It really brings out the best of the Woo.


----------



## paradoxper

T1: For me it's the least impressive 'flagship' of the bunch. Non offensive, but nothing special either. It reads as boring, personally


----------



## magiccabbage

i have the hd650 and thats as high fedelity as i go for the moment but im sure when i get the T1s in the coming months it will be another step up the ladder. i could go straight for the hd800 but that wouldnt be as much fun IMO. i wanna have both and im araid if i get hd800 i might not get t1s.


----------



## Solude

If you have the HD800 you most certainly won't get the T1. That said why downgrade to the T1 from the HD650? Ya I went there


----------



## nigeljames

We all hear differently but the T1's blow the HD650 away with every amp I have heard them both on and I have owned/own both.
   
  I am very impressed with the HD800's though


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> If you have the HD800 you most certainly won't get the T1. That said* why downgrade to the T1 from the HD650? Ya I went there *


----------



## third_eye

I liked the T1 when I owned it but the HD800 is on a higher level for me.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





solude said:


> If you have the HD800 you most certainly won't get the T1. That said why downgrade to the T1 from the HD650? Ya I went there


 
   
  Yeah, this is about where I part opinions.  T1 is overpriced, not on the same level with the top dogs, but it's still a high-end headphone, and I think it does several things better than the HD650s. Yet very different sounding. If you are expressing a huge preference for the HD650s, which I can understand as I owned them twice, that's fine. But the T1s are by no means a downgrade.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I'd rather have a 650, too, honestly.
   
  Quote: 





preproman said:


>


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I'd rather have a 650, too, honestly.


----------



## KT66

As a non HD800 and T1 owner this thread is an interesting read.
   
  But surely you are not comparing like for like?
  For me an open headphone will always sound better than a closed or semi open one, in the same price/quality level.
   
  Getting a closed headphone to sound really good is tricky, and that probably explains why Sennheiser
  don't make one.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





kt66 said:


> As a non HD800 and T1 owner this thread is an interesting read.
> 
> But surely you are not comparing like for like?
> For me an open headphone will always sound better than a closed or semi open one, in the same price/quality level.
> ...


 
   
  I think of the T1s as open headphones. That thing with semiclosed is a bit like semi-virgin. I think they're not. Perhaps I could say they're just not as open as others.
  My analogy ends here.


----------



## magiccabbage

the poor t1s are getting battered here!


----------



## magiccabbage

do you like anything Solude ?


----------



## MorbidToaster

That's because they're bad.
   
  Oh, and no, Solude doesn't like anything. 
   
  Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> the poor t1s are getting battered here!


----------



## magiccabbage

have you owned the t1s


----------



## magiccabbage

and tried them with the right tubes


----------



## MorbidToaster

I heard them once and that was enough. With multiple tube amps and a solid state amp as well.
   
  I'd be willing to try them again, but I really won't go out of my way to do so. I was extremely excited to hear them, but they were sibilant no matter what I plugged them into.
   
  I've never experienced another headphone that has been that way.


----------



## JWahl

Well, I don't think the T1 is bad, just overpriced.  It got me to sell my R1 LCD-2 to buy one.  But in the end I prefer both the HE-6 and of course the HD800 to both of them.  But yeah, asking if you should get HD800 or T1 in the HD800 appreciation thread...   might get some biased answers


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> and tried them with the right tubes


 
   
  Don't worry about trying to get others to like a headphone because you think it's good.  Everyone has their own preference and some go solely measurements.  Just continue to like what ever it is you like.  
   
  Enjoy the music..


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





jwahl said:


> Well, I don't think the T1 is bad, just overpriced.  It got me to sell my R1 LCD-2 to buy one.  But in the end I prefer both the HE-6 and of course the HD800 to both of them.  But yeah, asking if you should get HD800 or T1 in the HD800 appreciation thread...   might get some biased answers


 
   
  +1


----------



## Maxvla

Best way to describe the T1 is that it is in a constant state of confusion. Every genre is produced in a different way than is normal. Every instrument is just slightly 'off'. It's like the T1 is speaking through a translator.


----------



## preproman

Not the best way at all..  IMO..


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Not the best way at all..  IMO..


 
  ^
   
  The T1 just has no magic to it.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> ^
> 
> The T1 just has no magic to it.


 
   
  Right.  I hear no magic with it as well.  To me it masters nothing, but is pretty good at a few things.    
   
  Now the HD800 and the HE-6 are Jack of all trades and Masters quite a few things.


----------



## magiccabbage

but you listen to mostly metal which is treble heavy so no wonder. paradoxper


----------



## negura

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> but you listen to mostly metal which is treble heavy so no wonder. paradoxper


 
   
  And so do I. I love my metal music. And I fully enjoy it with the HD800s.  Not so much with the T1s - it sounds fatiguing after a while, and a few things not quite right.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Right.  I hear no magic with it as well.  To me it masters nothing, but is pretty good at a few things.
> 
> Now the HD800 and the HE-6 are Jack of all trades and Masters quite a few things.


 
  Exactly. It's fairly good though, but we're comparing flagships pretty much. It doesn't measure up.
  Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> but you listen to mostly metal which is treble heavy so no wonder. paradoxper


 
  I listen to mostly metal, sure. But I also listen to pop,rock,classical, etc.
  And to that, the HD800 should be terrible with your thinking. The T1 is a fun can, nothing more. Regardless of genre.


----------



## TT600R

Talking about metal,just listened to "wasted years-Somewhere in time" by Iron Maiden
  Just out of the head that guitar intro,skipped it back 5 times thinking What am i hearing
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Probably also caused by my new D18,that thing is awesome.


----------



## MorbidToaster

magiccabbage said:


> but you listen to mostly metal which is treble heavy so no wonder. paradoxper




You're trying to defend a headphone in another headphone's appreciation thread. Just stop. 

Telling people they just don't like it based on musical preferences is stretching by ANY means.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> but we're comparing flagships pretty much. It doesn't measure up.


 
   
   
  Even if and when Flagships are compared.  There is a first and there is a last.  None the less they're still flagships.   Just because the last doesn't measure up to the first doesn't mean it's not a flagship.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Even if and when Flagships are compared.  There is a first and there is a last.  None the less they're still flagships.   Just because the last doesn't measure up to the first doesn't it's not a flagship.


 
  No argument here. T1 is in the top 5 for me. It just happens to be #5, personally.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> No argument here. T1 is in the top 5 for me. It just happens to be #5, personally.


 
   
   
  There you go..


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sucks that i couldn't wake up earlier to defend the T1. why does it have so much hate? is it those graphs posted a while ago about some quality issues? or just that its picky about amping?
   
  i find my T1 to be right at about the same level as the HD 800. it does sacrifice a bit of soundstage and some accuracy in the bass, but what it has is musicality, a slight warmth in the mids that gives naturalness, and a slightly faster sound than HD 800. with the WA2, theres no harshness in the treble and everything just balances out really nicely, im sure it sounds even better with more expensive amps.
   
   i cant decide which one is better and both get tons of listening time.
  the T1 for sure get more listening time than the LCD-2, since the T1 are good with just about any genre of music.
   
  but anyways, T1 are very underrated as a flagship. i feel that besides the Ultrasone flagships or D7100, the T1 is viewed as the 2nd worst, and thats just ****ed up!!!! the T1 might not be as technically perfect as LCD-3, HD 800, or some of the others, but its definitely just as fun and enjoyable while still having top level performance. no-reason for it to be viewed as inferior to an HD 650 (an excellent headphone, but seriously?)


----------



## magiccabbage

i wasnt cutting at anybodies musical taste - i was a metalhead for years and fair enough this is the wrong thread but anyway ill probably end up getting both cans  eventually. 
   
  i havnt hear wasted years in so long preproman


----------



## Andrew_WOT

To me T1 is a definite improvement from DT880 in some areas like more articulated, hard hitting bass, increased air and details, some weight in midrange (finally), but that freaking 10K spike ruins the party. On some material makes your ears ring.
  Beyer should have added some dampening to address that like it was done on DT line.
  But there is always hope

   [GUIDE] How To Properly Dampen Your Beyerdynamic T1

   
  Felt is ordered, now the wait, if that doesn't work they are leaving.


----------



## TT600R

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> i havnt hear wasted years in so long preproman


 
  Well get it on then!!


----------



## magiccabbage

i seen maiden live 3 times.they were great. have you heard swans cover of number of the beast?


----------



## TT600R

Nice video,haven't seen it.
  Maiden will be one of my main bands.
  I am 44 now,and saw them the first time on there wasted years tour in '86.I was 18 back then.
  Brings back great memories...
   
  Bit off topic,I know,getting a bit "midlife crisis acting"
  Just enjoy your HD800's


----------



## BournePerfect

I owned 2 T1s and they sounded completely different, honestly. My first pair sounded just like Dubstep Girl described (but NOT faster than HD800 lol), and my second pair sounded like crap in comparison. Even my ZDSE couldn't work magic on them. There were definitely major variances between them, through all gear I tried them on. My 'good' pair I would definitely say they were Masters of transparency, with amazing mids. The 2nd pair were worse than my Pro 2900s in most areas. Go figure. FWIW both had been burned in plenty and were stock...

-Daniel


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> do you like anything Solude ?


 
   
  I am harsh on gear for sure.  If you want something hyped... keep it off my radar 
   
  I like the Audeze cans on mid level gear that can use some love but that also means it has a ceiling.  The Senn 600/650 are other cans that are goto wins for their asking price.  The HD800 is an awesome headphone that DEMANDS top shelf gear.  I do not like it on gear where the Audeze products sound great.  But on great gear... world class giant stompers.


----------



## LinkPro

Back then I couldn't justify dropping 1.5k on the HD800 so I went with the T1. And on my sub-par amp/DAC setup the T1 kills both my Denons for accuracy/balance and sound stage. Vocals simply sound amazing. 
   
  The HD800 really requires careful matching. Last time I heard it out of a $1700 DAC it was nothing but a sibilant mess with no bass. I'm hoping to give it a second chance, once I got my finances get sorted out. But then I'd be tempted to get a TH900 first. I wonder if this game of phones ever ends?


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





linkpro said:


>





> I wonder if this game of phones ever ends?


 
   
  Yes, yes there is.  It's called my sig


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





linkpro said:


> The HD800 really requires careful matching. Last time I heard it out of a $1700 DAC it was nothing but a sibilant mess with no bass.


 
  Dunno what made you think it was gonna sound good out of a dac that cheap.. schoolboy error my friend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm currently listening to Marley's 'Natty Dread' on a 24bit vinyl rip, through a Dacmagic and Audio gd amp and it sounds ****ing amazing. Smooth as butter, deep tight bass.
   
  No money no cry...


----------



## ericfarrell85

All this T1 antipathy is yet another indication that there must be variance between different T1's. The T1 I own fed by an dynahi or csp2+ is tremendous, and while a step or two behind my HD800 and HE6, the disparity isn't anywhere near so great as some have suggested here.
   
  I've heard the HD800 out of a GSX mk2, which was on a similar level as my Zana Deux (preamp) > Beta 22, or put another way the best I've heard the HD800. I've heard the HE6 out of a Pass Labs X150 and my current Odyssey Stratos Plus/Pioneer SX1280, which is the best I've heard the HE6. I've heard the Stax out of a Blue Hawaii, which is the best I've heard the Stax. Apart from the Stax, which is another ballgame, the T1 is competitive, a few degrees behind. Try the T1 out of a Dynahi and see if you still find it boring. There must be variances in the T1's; it's the only thing that can account for the tremendous gap that keeps users that otherwise agree (for the most apart) in their findings.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

how big are the variances is another question. since theres also people who say different hd 800s sound different, but all hd 800s i've heard sounded the same to me.


----------



## Solude

I've seen some T1s measure a full ~5dB differently than another.


----------



## RedBull

^ I wonder how can they pass QC with that kind of variance.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





redbull said:


> ^ I wonder how can they pass QC with that kind of variance.


 

 Beyerdynamic and QC, LOL.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/508836/the-official-beyerdynamic-t1-owners-club-appreciation-discussion-thread/3990#post_9370325


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





linkpro said:


> Back then I couldn't justify dropping 1.5k on the HD800 so I went with the T1. And on my sub-par amp/DAC setup the T1 kills both my Denons for accuracy/balance and sound stage. Vocals simply sound amazing.
> 
> The HD800 really requires careful matching. Last time I heard it out of a $1700 DAC it was nothing but a sibilant mess with no bass. I'm hoping to give it a second chance, once I got my finances get sorted out. But then I'd be tempted to get a TH900 first. I wonder if this game of phones ever ends?


 
   
  i think i have gone down the rabbit hole too far now. i dont think ill ever be truly satisfied.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> i think i have gone down the rabbit hole too far now. i dont think ill ever be truly satisfied.


 
  It's called electrostats and speakers. If you have heard all the available flagship dynamic, planars and still aren't satisfied. There's one thing left and that's to join the Stax mafia.


----------



## magiccabbage

oh im an amateur here, the best i have heard is hd 650 threw wa2 (stock tubes) but even still i want the t1s and hd800s and when i get those i know ill want more. im not exactly complaining. its fun having a collection right?


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





defqon said:


> It's called electrostats and speakers. If you have heard all the available flagship dynamic, planars and still aren't satisfied. There's one thing left and that's to join the Stax mafia.


 
  did you get the BHSE?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mink70 said:


> Can you be specific? Which Decware? I heard Frank's Taboo III at the New York meet, and while it was very good, it didn't strike me as a natural pairing with the HD800.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  The Taboo MK III is terrific with the HD800's, but you do need to dial them in. (Tubes, Lucid Mode 1 or 2, etc) Once you find the sweet spot it is a terrific pairing.


----------



## MorbidToaster

magiccabbage said:


> oh im an amateur here, the best i have heard is hd 650 threw wa2 (stock tubes) but even still i want the t1s and hd800s and when i get those i know ill want more. im not exactly complaining. its fun having a collection right?




I got over collections really quick. I tend to be a 1 headphone at a time kinda person.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Well, I was lucky enough to own the very first T1 sold in Canada several years back when they were first released. I really did enjoy my time with them. Did they do anything outstanding? Not to my ears, BUT, they were well balanced across the board: bass, mids, treble, imaging, comfort, etc.... And that's where they're strength lied. The 10kHz spike really had very little effect as there really isn't a lot happening in that frequency range. The 6kHz bump on the HD-800s or the even bigger treble spikes on the HE-6s are more problematic IMO. (Heck, I prefer the T1s to the HE-6s and sold off the latter sooner than the former).
   
  That said, they were sold to clear up some space for my SR-009s and I didn't feel that they (T1s) would be listened to much with my other headphones. I'm still a fan though!


----------



## TooPoor

The never ending quest continues... Added the V-Link. Pretty happy thus far. The DLIII needed it pretty bad in my opinion.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> The never ending quest continues... Added the V-Link. Pretty happy thus far. The DLIII needed it pretty bad in my opinion.


 
   
  it definitely does!




   
  i have the 24/96 V Link I, i'll upgrade to the newer one once i decide i want 24/192 capability


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> it definitely does!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  OMG, I cant stand the thought of you enduring 24/96 DSG. You must upgrade to 24/192 ASAP, your life depends on it!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

palmfish said:


> OMG, I cant stand the thought of you enduring 24/96 DSG. You must upgrade to 24/192 ASAP, your life depends on it!




Not much 24/192 out there,and they take up alot of space, i like downsampling to 24/96 for those. Ill upgrade someday though


----------



## palmfish

No hurry DSG, I was just razzing you. I have some hi-rez Alan Parsons Project discs that are 96 on one side and 192 on the other. There's no audible difference...
   
  Same with HDTracks - I cant tell the difference.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> No hurry DSG, I was just razzing you. I have some hi-rez Alan Parsons Project discs that are 96 on one side and 192 on the other. There's no audible difference...
> 
> Same with HDTracks - I cant tell the difference.


 
  I have several of those too....Damn are they expensive now on ebay!


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I have several of those too....Damn are they expensive now on ebay!


 

 Oh yeah? I have all three. I must be getting old.
   
  You know you're getting old when...
   
  Aircraft you flew in the military are now mounted on 30' poles by the front gate and albums you bought new are now collectors items.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Hmm HDVD800 or something else?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

something else.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Hmm HDVD800 or something else?


 
   
  Have you heard it yourself, and what would you recommend yourself?


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> did you get the BHSE?


 
  Not yet. Don't have the money for one atm.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Have you heard it yourself, and what would you recommend yourself?


 
   
  Oh I see what you did there.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Hmm HDVD800 or something else?


 
   
   
  Something else. I heard the HDVD800  with HD800s at the last meet but wasn't too impressed. I also am concerned how it sounds with other headphones but didn't get the chance to dig into this. Off the top of my mind Burson Soloist.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> You know you're getting old when...
> 
> Aircraft you flew in the military are now mounted on 30' poles by the front gate and albums you bought new are now collectors items.


 
   
  That's both funny and too true!


----------



## magiccabbage

do you use the hd800 with yout Decware CSP2 [size=18.399999618530273px]longbowbbs[/size] ? is the decware a crack? looks really nice.


----------



## longbowbbs

Magiccabbage,
   
  I am currently using both the Decware CSP2+ and Taboo MK III with the HD800's. 
   
  Decware ( www.decware.com ) is an Illinois based manufacturer of high end audio gear. All hand made with point to point wiring.
   
  The Bottlehead Crack is a DIY tube amplifier made in WA state ( www.bottlehead.com ) I have never heard this amp, but it has a stellar reputation for sound quality at a great price. I know it is considered, along with the Decware CSP2+, as two of the finest HD650 amps you can buy.
   
  The Decware CSP2+ is primarily a Pre-amp. I has a HP jack so it can be used with HP's without a separate amp. It was my primary amp for the HD800's for the last year. The new Taboo MK III is primarily an amp, but can also be used as an integrated amp as it does have 2 inputs for signal. You can connect your source to the CSP2+ and then connect the CSP2+ to the Taboo and use the volume control of the CSP2+ the manage output for the combined units.
   
  I find the combo to have more authority and weight than either unit individually so I am using them in tandem.


----------



## magiccabbage

wow how did i miss that site? i play guitar also - getting together on thursday with a friend who is going to show me the basics for putting together a tube amp. spotted the little 5 watt on that website. looks gorgeous! i see you have the wired for sound dac aswell hidden away on the second shelf while i only have an rcam 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. i need to upgrade


----------



## LifeAspect

V200/V800 combo for the HD800. They have great synergy


----------



## maarek99

Quote: 





technica18 said:


> I'm reading a lot of conflicting opinions but between the HD800 and T1 which has the more full bodied and warmer sound with smooth and non-fatiguing treble?


 
   
  For me the HD800. The T1 I had was way brighter and edgier in the treble and the mids were not nearly as nice as on the HD800. My HD800 is awesome. 
   
  And YES. I also like even the HD650 better than the T1. I first "upgraded" from the HD650 to the T1 but I really did not dig the sound. Then I tried out the HE-500. Better but the HD650 was still more to my liking. But oddly, I enjoy the HD800 quite much. I've had it for a couple of weeks and probably will keep it. The FIRST REAL upgrade from the HD650. Still there are things the HD650 does better than the HD800 (female vocals, euphonic man), but in everything else, HD800 is king.
   
  I originally got the T1 first because I heard that the HD800 was worse with treble. But that wasn't true. The treble on the HD800 is quite nice (I use the V-dac II which is quite mellow and the Lake People G100 amp). There was one thing where the T1 excelled and that was dynamics.


----------



## FraGGleR

In the brief time I listened to the T1 (balanced out of a tube amp and single ended out of an ss amp), I thought it was quite muddy compared to the HD800.  Then again, everything sounds muddy to me right after listening to the HD800s.  I thought the bass of the T1s wasn't very tight and overwhelmed the other frequencies.  I didn't hear any sibilance, though.  Seems that the impressions are all over the place for the T1s.  Mids and treble were decent, though.  I like the design of the Beyers as well.
   
  Nothing touches the HD800s for soundstage and detail for me.  Classical is now unlistenable on any other headphone.


----------



## rawrster

You should get the HE6 then. It definitely doesn't sound muddy at all if I switch one to the other


----------



## FraGGleR

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> You should get the HE6 then. It definitely doesn't sound muddy at all if I switch one to the other


 
  I was fortunate to have the HE-6s in for a listen for several days.  I liked them very much, and thought they were driven quite well by my amp.  I liked the tonal balance, but I still liked the soundstage and air of the HD800s more.  
   
  I wish I had the money and space to have a whole collection.  I'd definitely have the HE-6 in the stable.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





fraggler said:


> I wish I had the money and space to have a whole collection.  I'd definitely have the HE-6 in the stable.


 
   
  +1


----------



## Mambosenior

fraggler said:


> I was fortunate to have the HE-6s in for a listen for several days.  I liked them very much, and thought they were driven quite well by my amp.  I liked the tonal balance, but I still liked the soundstage and air of the HD800s more.




Ditto! Very-much enjoyed my time with the HE-6 as well. Almost bit! Ultimately, I found the HD800 to be indispensable...especially now that I've found how they have responded to the speaker-amp gambit. Have kept the HE-5-LE as it has its own distinctive character even though the fit leaves a bit to be desired. The Hifiman "was" my preference when listening to pop or jazz. So sorry to have learned it has been discontinued since, at the price, it demonstrated better complete tonal balance (for me) than higher ticket items I auditioned (T1, for one. Maybe Beyers are simply not meant for me as I've also tried 770, 880, 990 without biting.)


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





maarek99 said:


> For me the HD800. The T1 I had was way brighter and edgier in the treble and the mids were not nearly as nice as on the HD800. My HD800 is awesome.
> 
> And YES. I also like even the HD650 better than the T1. I first "upgraded" from the HD650 to the T1 but I really did not dig the sound. Then I tried out the HE-500. *Better but the HD650 was still more to my liking. But oddly, I enjoy the HD800 quite much*. I've had it for a couple of weeks and probably will keep it. The FIRST REAL upgrade from the HD650. Still there are things the HD650 does better than the HD800 (female vocals, euphonic man), but in everything else, HD800 is king.
> 
> I originally got the T1 first because I heard that the HD800 was worse with treble. But that wasn't true. The treble on the HD800 is quite nice (I use the *V-dac II* which is quite mellow and the Lake People G100 amp). There was one thing where the T1 excelled and that was dynamics.


 
  I can see the HD800 as a natural upgrade from both the 600/650. They all have the Sennheiser house sound. Only the HD800's are bigger, better, clearer. Though bad recordings will always sound more pleasing on the 650's 
   
  Also,  the VdacII is a great match for the HD800's. It has a very slight treble roll off and weighty bass.


----------



## wink

Quote:LugBug1 





> I can see the HD800 as a natural upgrade from both the 600/650. They all have the Sennheiser house sound.


 
  What planet are you living on..???


----------



## Taliesin

Any thoughts on schiit Mjolnir+Gungnir vs Burson Conductor vs Woo Audio WA7 vs centrance dacmini PX vs schiit upgraded bifrost + Lyr with HD800


----------



## rawrster

I don't agree that the HD600/650 to the HD800 is a natural step. The HD6x0 share similarities and sound much more alike than different. The HD800 however is a different story. I would like a HD800 equivalent of the HD600 however. I haven't really been able to find an  upgrade for that but the HE6 is somewhat close.
   
  I got a new dac incoming so it should replace my Yulong D18 or at least that's the plan. The Mjolnir I'm not sure if that's staying or not. It sounds great with the HD800 but I do wonder about something like a balanced dynalo or maybe a balanced dynahi.


----------



## preproman

The balanced Dynahi may be a bit overkill for the HE800.  At least that's what Kevin G. said.  Maybe the GS-X would be more suitable.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





wink said:


> What planet are you living on..???


 
  lol
   
  wink what planet are you living on when you have your coffee hit near midnight?
   
  Quote: 





rawrster said:


> I don't agree that the HD600/650 to the HD800 is a natural step. The HD6x0 share similarities and sound much more alike than different. The HD800 however is a different story. I would like a HD800 equivalent of the HD600 however.


 
  +1. The HD800 is a bit of a unique one aye out of the HD600/650 family, even though the HD600's are more neutral than the 800 they still don't have any slight of a resemblance in sound imo. The HD700 is a lost case on the other hand. Good point about the HE-6 being the closest upgrade over the 600 with some sound similarities.


----------



## wink

QuoteefQon 





> QuoteeafenedQon
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Planet espresso or planet coffeebean.


----------



## rawrster

I have my coffee at night 
    
   
  Quote:


preproman said:


> The balanced Dynahi may be a bit overkill for the HE800.  At least that's what Kevin G. said.  Maybe the GS-X would be more suitable.


 
   
  Yeah it probably is. Any idea about it for the HE6? I was thinking about the balanced dynalo but probably look into costs and see where my budget is.


----------



## TT600R

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> I don't agree that the HD600/650 to the HD800 is a natural step. The HD6x0 share similarities and sound much more alike than different. The HD800 however is a different story. I would like a HD800 equivalent of the HD600 however. I haven't really been able to find an  upgrade for that but the HE6 is somewhat close.
> 
> I got a new dac incoming so it should replace my Yulong D18 or at least that's the plan. The Mjolnir I'm not sure if that's staying or not. It sounds great with the HD800 but I do wonder about something like a balanced dynalo or maybe a balanced dynahi.


 

 Why are you getting rid of the D18?
  I find it extremely well pairing with the Sennheiser.I have not many dac's to compare with,but this dac/amp combo is definititly a good match in combination with the HD800.
  But there is always better ofcoarse.


----------



## maarek99

I meant that the HD800 was an upgrade (from the hd650) in the sense that it does sound better. It still sounds considerably different though to warrant keeping the HD650 around.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





tt600r said:


> Why are you getting rid of the D18?
> I find it extremely well pairing with the Sennheiser.I have not many dac's to compare with,but this dac/amp combo is definititly a good match in combination with the HD800.
> But there is always better ofcoarse.


 
  My HE6 rig has the Anedio D1 dac but my HD800 has the Yulong D18 dac. My D1 is on a higher level than the D18 so I want something that is as good or better. I will see which is better however before I sell anything however. I will have three dacs with the ESS9018 which will be pretty interesting to see different implementations.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





wink said:


> What planet are you living on..???


 





   
  But! My point was (and I'm sure most folk knew what I meant.. Is it late sweetheart?) I remember loads of comments when the HD800's came out that they were nothing like the HD650's. And that there was too much of a contrast for peeps looking to upgrade from 600/650. Now after owing them for a few months I find them very like the 650's only better in every area. I've always contributed the Senn's 'house sound' to the 580/600/650's. And now also the HD800's.  
   
  There.. Thats not so alien is it?


----------



## palmfish

I think the HD6XX series has the "old" Sennheiser "house sound" (if there is such a thing), although I personally don't like grouping the 600 and 650 together since I like the 600 so much and dislike the 650.
   
  And I think the HD800 is quite different - actually more similar in flavor to the new batch of HD5XX (558 and 598) that were released a couple of years ago. Compared to the HD6XX, they are more airy and open/spacious-sounding headphones. Not at all dark and intimate like the 650 (and to a lesser degree the 600).


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> *I think the HD6XX series has the "old" Sennheiser "house sound" (if there is such a thing)*, although I personally don't like grouping the 600 and 650 together since I like the 600 so much and dislike the 650.
> 
> And I think the HD800 is quite different - actually more similar in flavor to the new batch of HD5XX (558 and 598) that were released a couple of years ago. Compared to the HD6XX, they are more airy and open/spacious-sounding headphones. Not at all dark and intimate like the 650 (and to a lesser degree the 600).


 
  Yup, The newer Senns have moved to a more airier treble sound but to my ears still have all the traits that I like about Sennheiser. Musicality, non fatiguing yet can be highly resolving. It wasn't that long ago that the 600/650's were described as being airy open/spacious hp's. Only in comparison to the newer and technically better HD800 they now sound congested and intimate. 
   
  My ears tell me that the HD800 is an evolvement of the 600/650, different yes, but still from the same family.


----------



## rgs9200m

I actually think the Audeze LCDs are a more natural progression (and improvement) from the HD600/650.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> I actually think the Audeze LCDs are a more natural progression (and improvement) from the HD600/650.


 
  +1 on that!


----------



## LugBug1

I'd say the HE500's are the most natural upgrade from the 650/600. LCD2's are too different in respect to smaller soundstage and less air and treble.


----------



## cucera

lugbug1 said:


> I'd say the HE500's are the most natural upgrade from the 650/600. LCD2's are too different in respect to smaller soundstage and less air and treble.




+1 for that.

But best own both HE500 for pop/rock and HD800 for Jazz and Classical.


----------



## rgs9200m

The HE500s are more diffuse to me than the HD600/650. The HE500s are very nice in their own way, but they have a different sound signature than HD6xxs or even Audezes,
  which are more point-source and precise. (All IME, of course. I own all of these.)


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *palmfish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> And *I think the HD800 is quite different - actually more similar in flavor to the new batch of HD5XX (558 and 598)* that were released a couple of years ago. Compared to the HD6XX, they are more airy and open/spacious-sounding headphones. Not at all dark and intimate like the 650 (and to a lesser degree the 600).


 
   
  Totally agree.. I had the HD598 a couple of years ago.. and thinking back now, the HD800 is probably most similar to it in terms of tuning.  Obviously, the HD800 is at another level in terms of technicalities, but it is indeed, closer to the 598's sound than the HD600, IMO.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I'd say the HE500's are the most natural upgrade from the 650/600. LCD2's are too different in respect to smaller soundstage and less air and treble.


 
   
  the hd 558 is quite similar to the hd 800 in some ways.
   
   
   
  HD600 >>>> HE-500
   
  HD 650 >>>> LCD-2
   
  i find the LCD-2 to be much closer in sound to the hd 650.


----------



## Frank I

The HDVD800 is in house for the next 10 days with the HD700 as well. Sennheiser sent me  both pieces to review. I will listen over the next 10 days but the review will be done in about 45 days as the amp is going elsewhere after that time  and i want to review the two together for Dagogo.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





frank i said:


> The *HDVD800* is in house for the next 10 days with the *HD700* as well. Sennheiser sent me  both pieces to review. I will listen over the next 10 days but the review will be done in about 45 days as the amp is going elsewhere after that time  and i want to review the two together for Dagogo.


----------



## LugBug1

Yeah I think there is looking at it in similarities, like say the LCD2 = dark and laidback and the 650 = dark/laidback etc. These generalizations for me can be a bit misleading.
  But in regards to upgrades. I see it as; what can be improved upon? For me the LCD2 is better than the 650 in some ways but not in others. Soundstage for example. Where as the HE500 is better than the 650 in all areas, so for me that would be a more natural upgrade. Not saying the HE500 is better than the LCD2, only the LCD2 is too different than the 650. The LCD2 is the king of intimacy and warmth. (yes... I'm confused as well  better? What is better!)
   
  But as always it comes down to music taste and our own ideology in what sounds better. I had the 650's for 6 year listening to classical music predominately. Cutting a long story short, I thought the 650 were great for that genre, much better than the LCD2's but beaten by the HE500. If I had skipped the orthos and went straight to the HD800's I would have saved a lot of money


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> the hd 558 is quite similar to the hd 800 in some ways.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 +1
   
  I picked up a reburbished 558 a few weeks ago for $90 and I agree they are similar to the HD800. For me, they are my low impedance "on the go" HD 800. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But I still believe that, in spite of being outclassed by the new breed of top tier headphones, the HD 600 still has a certain magic that no other headphone has. Personally, I prefer the HD 600 over the HE-500 and LCD-2.


----------



## kazsud

Quote: 





frank i said:


> The HDVD800 is in house for the next 10 days with the HD700 as well. Sennheiser sent me  both pieces to review. I will listen over the next 10 days but the review will be done in about 45 days as the amp is going elsewhere after that time  and i want to review the two together for Dagogo.


 
  Will love to read your impressions


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i find the he-500 to be less similar to the HD-650 than the LCD-2, the HE-500 have quite alot more treble and are more neutral in the mids. the LCD-2 are basically the same, except the soundstage is smaller on the LCD-2 and i find that the LCD-2 is dark yet neutral while the HD 650 is laidback and warm, smooth. the LCD-2 has some energy the HD 650 doesn't have. its hard to explain. 
   
  both are quite similar to HD 650 though since the planars are already quite similar to themselves, with a few differences.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> +1
> 
> I picked up a reburbished 558 a few weeks ago for $90 and I agree they are similar to the HD800. For me, they are my low impedance "on the go" HD 800.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  90$! wow nice. ive been considering getting a 558 just as a semi-portable kinda thing. it doesn't need amping and sounds "just right" to me. open like hd 800 but also having many of the characteristics of the hd 600/650 headphones.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> 90$! wow nice. ive been considering getting a 558 just as a semi-portable kinda thing. it doesn't need amping and sounds "just right" to me. open like hd 800 but also having many of the characteristics of the hd 600/650 headphones.


 

 Yup, that's exactly what I was thinking.
   
  I found them on the wall at Magnolia and was blown away when I listened to them. I had to have them but would never pay $180 for them, so I ordered the refurbs online.
   
  When they arrived, I plugged them in and was shocked by how similar they are to the 800 - even side-to-side A/B the 558 holds up surprisingly well. They definitely need a low output impedance source for best results though.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Yup, that's exactly what I was thinking.
> 
> I found them on the wall at Magnolia and was blown away when I listened to them. I had to have them but would never pay $180 for them, so I ordered the refurbs online.
> 
> When they arrived, I plugged them in and was shocked by how similar they are to the 800 - even side-to-side A/B the 558 holds up surprisingly well. They definitely need a low output impedance source for best results though.


 
   
  yeah our magnolia has them too. really nice compared to the others there, and even better than the denon d600 in many ways too (tighter and cleaner sounding)


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yeah our magnolia has them too. really nice compared to the others there, and even better than the denon d600 in many ways too (tighter and cleaner sounding)


 
   
  Sounds like the same wall I visited. D600, Momentums, K550, Some nice Audio Technicas, etc...
   
  I didnt like the Denon's. They were very "V" shaped. I am glad I finally got to hear them, but I much prefer the D2000's.  The 558's were actually the best sounding headphones on the wall - it was a bonus that they are also the least expensive.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ours doesn't have momentums, but k550s, some audio technicas, and a few others i don't remember.
   
  yeah the d600s weren't anything like the D2000s, really a step down. having owned d2k and d7k, denon really missed the mark on these.
   
  i agree the 558s were the best sounding as well. i didn't believe it at first, but then im like wow....these are really good!! wasn't too big on the audio technica's there. they had some tiny wood ones (ESW9 or something like that), but they didn't wow me too much, at least not like the hd 558s did. the K550s where not bad, but not good either.


----------



## Frank I




----------



## Dubstep Girl

the blue LEDs would match the limited edition hd 800s quite nicely.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> the blue LEDs would match the limited edition hd 800s quite nicely.


 
  The amp is warming up and sounds good off the computer so the dac inside is well implemented. I will get all the technical data soon.  I think the blue headphones will go good with the amp or the Stratus too


----------



## dan.gheorghe

Quote: 





frank i said:


> The amp is warming up and sounds good off the computer so the dac inside is well implemented. I will get all the technical data soon.  I think the blue headphones will go good with the amp or the Stratus too


 
  Looking forward to your impressions Frank


----------



## cucera

The dac/amp looks promising, but I don't like the HD700. Will you test it also with the HD800?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





cucera said:


> The dac/amp looks promising, but I don't like the HD700. Will you test it also with the HD800?


 
  I am using the Hd800 as my main reference headphone. I will also use the LCD2,T90,AT3000AN,HD700 and the Mad Dog orthos.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





wink said:


> Planet espresso or planet coffeebean.


 
  lolol


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





frank i said:


> The HDVD800 is in house for the next 10 days with the HD700 as well. Sennheiser sent me  both pieces to review. I will listen over the next 10 days but the review will be done in about 45 days as the amp is going elsewhere after that time  and i want to review the two together for Dagogo.


 
  I want to know your impressions with the HD800'sand HDVD800 Frank....Very curious!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I want to know your impressions with the HD800'sand HDVD800 Frank....Very curious!


 
  I am doing a review.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I am doing a review.


 
  are you posting it here? do you have a website?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> are you posting it here? do you have a website?


 
  I will post the link when its done. Dagogo.com


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I will post the link when its done. Dagogo.com


 
  oh i remember now you mentioned that website to me before. thanks frank. could you tell me if there is a pre amp option? i presume so.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> oh i remember now you mentioned that website to me before. thanks frank. could you tell me if there is a pre amp option? i presume so.


 
  This is a digital amp. You can use it with a computer and or hooked up to a CD player. This is not designed ti be used as a preamp.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> This is a digital amp. You can use it with a computer and or hooked up to a CD player. This is not designed ti be used as a preamp.


 
  sorry what i meant to say was could i use a pre amp with it something like the wa2 and this?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> sorry what i meant to say was could i use a pre amp with it something like the wa2 and this?


 
   There is no preamp input in the back. You could try to use it with the WA2 not sure you would get any better sound because this was designed as a amplifier and you would have two volume controls. I did that with the Taboo Mk111 without a variable input and I did not like it.


----------



## RedBull

fraggler said:


> Then again, everything sounds muddy to me right after listening to the HD800s.




Exactly!!! well maybe except JH13 whih have similar vocal clarity and detail to hd800.


----------



## palmfish

I need to say again how much I enjoy these headphones. I just went from Jean Sibelius to Liquid Tension Experiment - the HD800 is a master of all genres and just a joy!


----------



## OrbitingCow

Have about 1500 to spend. I am definitely looking at the HD800s. I use a Denon 2112CI receiver with good inputs and power. Some people seem to comment on the upper range of this headphone. Are these mostly people who like their music toned down a tad at the upper end?  I just want some damn fine headphones with a nice soundstage.
   
  I have some Etymotics and Beyer DT1350s atm and they are both good but want that next step in soundstage and design. A little realistic treble doesn't really scare me unless the bass is super weak. If the bass is as decent or better in the sub-regions as my DT1350s, which can pound some decent bass at 20Hz for small drivers with this amp, then I'd probably be good. Not quality mind you just the fun deep bass and it doesn't have to be anywhere near obnoxious or buzz your gut 12 inch bass. I am just looking for a near perfect headphone. I know it is somewhat picky but that really isn't my concern. I like the chipset in my Denon and it sounds great to my ears. It doesn't seem to be a particularly bright sound or anything just about normal mid-high end stuff.
   
  Does anybody think they will be replacing or continuing this line soon? What can they really do at this point but present a slightly different sound?


----------



## BobJS

-


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i don't think HD 800 will sound too good out of a denon receiver. not sure though, never tried them on a receiver.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





orbitingcow said:


> Have about 1500 to spend. I am definitely looking at the HD800s. I use a Denon 2112CI receiver with good inputs and power. Some people seem to comment on the upper range of this headphone. Are these mostly people who like their music toned down a tad at the upper end?  I just want some damn fine headphones with a nice soundstage.
> 
> I have some Etymotics and Beyer DT1350s atm and they are both good but want that next step in soundstage and design. A little realistic treble doesn't really scare me unless the bass is super weak. If the bass is as decent or better in the sub-regions as my DT1350s, which can pound some decent bass at 20Hz for small drivers with this amp, then I'd probably be good. Not quality mind you just the fun deep bass and it doesn't have to be anywhere near obnoxious or buzz your gut 12 inch bass. I am just looking for a near perfect headphone. I know it is somewhat picky but that really isn't my concern. I like the chipset in my Denon and it sounds great to my ears. It doesn't seem to be a particularly bright sound or anything just about normal mid-high end stuff.
> 
> Does anybody think they will be replacing or continuing this line soon? What can they really do at this point but present a slightly different sound?


 
   
  No idea about the Denons but the HD800 definitely are some damn fine headphones with a nice soundstage. I have tried the ER6i and Beyers aren't exactly bass monsters if the DT1350 is anything like the DT880. The HD800 has a good amount of bass but definitely not a basshead headphone but that isn't what you are looking for.
   
  It sounds like the HD800 is what you are looking for. It does need a good source and amp but I'm not familiar with what you have. As for replacing the line the HD800 is not going anywhere soon. The HD800 came out a few years ago and the HD600 is still kicking strong so if that's any indication the HD800 will be here for a long time.


----------



## magiccabbage

does anyone know what the craic is with the alt color for hd 800 is that a legitimate option now when purchasing?


----------



## palmfish

IME, the Denon receivers have a high output impedance at the headphone jack. 

I didnt like the way the HD800 sounded out of it when I tried it. Of course, YMMV.


----------



## LifeAspect

They have the HDVD800 in stock here in Belgium, wonder if I should go and prelisten the amp or not. Then again, I'd feel said if it sounded better than my V200/V800 stack. Would need to save again for the amp. lol


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





lifeaspect said:


> They have the HDVD800 in stock here in Belgium, wonder if I should go and prelisten the amp or not. Then again, I'd feel said* if it sounded better than my V200/V800 stack*. Would need to save again for the amp. lol


 
   
  doubt it.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> doubt it.


 
  It sound better than the V200 amp I have


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> It sound better than the V200 amp I have


 
  Do you prefer it to any of the woo amps like wa2? or is it too different?


----------



## Frank I

Different strokes and i only listened to the WA2 very limited so not sure I can make a best impression there. It solid state so the sound is not warm it is neutral and balanced. More like a Soloist but better sounding with the hd800.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Different strokes and i only listened to the WA2 very limited so not sur eI can make a best impression there. It solid state so the sound is not warm it is neutral and balanced. More like a Soloist but better sounding with the hd800.


 
  i dont know if ill ever be able to give up that warmth but who knows anything could happen


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i don't think HD 800 will sound too good out of a denon receiver. not sure though, never tried them on a receiver.


 
  I'll try them from my AVR-4311CI this weekend and get back to you all on that.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I'll try them from my AVR-4311CI this weekend and get back to you all on that.


 
  thanks!


----------



## OrbitingCow

The Denons with and past the 2112ci line are actually pretty decent networking receivers capable of two zones. 90 watts 7.1. I looked up all the DAC/ADC and stuff and it's 192k low distortion. Obviously you are limited with the chips in a big design like that but the graphs I saw all looked good from the chip maker. I like the sound out of it. It's not a ten thousand dollar amp but we have come a long way since the 90s. It has a lot of gruff. It can easily kill my DT1350s at 80 0hms and make the bass severely uncomfortable. I don't think that is going to be a problem really.
   
  It does sound like they are the headphone for me, though, I am going to try and audition a pair I think.


----------



## OrbitingCow

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I'll try them from my AVR-4311CI this weekend and get back to you all on that.


 

 Why would they not sound good on that receiver lol? Doesn't even make sense. That is top end quality stuff for what it does.
   
  And anway I'm not severely picky as long as it's high-fi and the DLC/amplification does its job. Looking forward to what you think of this combo and thanks for trying it out!


----------



## MorbidToaster

orbitingcow said:


> Why would they not sound good on that receiver lol? Doesn't even make sense. That is top end quality stuff for what it does.
> 
> And anway I'm not severely picky as long as it's high-fi and the DLC/amplification does its job. Looking forward to what you think of this combo and thanks for trying it out!




New receivers tend to have cheap headphone sections and wonky output impedances.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> New receivers tend to have cheap headphone sections and wonky output impedances.


 
  This is why I stick with vintage Marantz, Pioneer, Sansui and Teac stuff. The same example can be said for modern day Marantz gear, it just doesn't compare with some of the vintage good stuff.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





orbitingcow said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It will be an interesting exercise alongside the Taboo MK III. SS vs Tubes...round 1!


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> New receivers tend to have cheap headphone sections and wonky output impedances.


 
   
  I don't know, I did extensive testing a month ago and discovered that out of all the major brands, only Pioneer has high quality low output impedance headphone stages built in.
   
  I pitted my two Pioneer AVR's head-to-head against the Violectric V200 and they compared extremely well (I couldnt tell the difference).
   
  My most recent acquisition is a VSX-1122 that I picked up refurbished for $200. Not only is it an outstanding headphone amp for my HD800, but it also has all the analog (X4) and digital inputs (opticalX2, coaxX2) I need to hook up my turntable, cassette deck, Squeezebox, and CD player - with plenty to spare (HDMIX7 & USBX2).
   
  Oh yeah, it also powers my speakers with authority.


----------



## technica18

Hey guys is the serial number or the build date written on the outer box?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





technica18 said:


> Hey guys is the serial number or the build date written on the outer box?


 
  Serial number is on top of the head band....


----------



## DefQon

lol


----------



## Dubstep Girl

L0L!!


----------



## kn19h7

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Serial number is on top of the head band....


 
  Well, on the box, too


----------



## BobJS

Received and first listened to my "new" Crutchfield refurb HD-800 last night (161xx).  Was a little disappointed at first listen ..... probably because it was only for a minute, and the material wasn't stellar .... I had to quickly put the headphones away as I saw my wife pulling into the driveway, lol.    (Though when she saw me listening later, there were no questions ..... just another headphone....)
   
  My first listen was through my Lyr/Bifrost.   Later in the evening I moved over to the Little Dot MKIV/SE which seemed to drive the phones with more authority.  These are certainly special headphones.  No bass problems at all, just the way I like, un-exaggerated  but very full.  Details are stunning, I would say just short of being problematic (sibilance and the like).  There's little doubt in my mind that any nit-picking on my part is due to upstream deficiencies.  All of sudden it was 1:30 AM ... whoops, need to be at work by 7.
   
  I need more time to get to know them .... I have a 60 day window for return (can't really see that happening).  I find myself looking closely at higher end amp recommendations .....


----------



## Solude

Most receivers have opamp headphone sections, no buffers, no discrete output, just whatever TI is selling as a headphone opamp at the time.  W4S mINT made a big deal out of it and all I could think is... why oh why are you trying to 'sell' people on the wonders of a $2 chip in a $1500 product?  Problem with the vintage ones is they are just the speaker taps with massive inline resistors that drive down the power while jacking up the output impedance.  Read huge changes to the freq resp and poor control.


----------



## BobJS

I'm working my way through this thread (almost halfway through), and there have been plenty of discussions about potential pairings of amps with the hd800.  I thought the Bryston BHA-1 looked good because:
   
  1. I have 2 tube amps, not looking for another, want SS.
  2. Want something that will do the HD800 justice and sound higher end than my Lyr or LD MKIV.
  3. Would like to be able to drive my T1, HE500, HD600 as well.
  4. All my phones are single ended, but would like to look towards moving to balanced in the future.
   
  Given my requirements, does this look like a reasonable choice?  I might update DAC later, but now I'm using either AQ Dragonfly or Schiit Bifrost.
   
  Forgetting all the other requirements, and all other things being equal, how's the SQ of BHA-1 -> HD800   vs, say V200 -> HD800  ?


----------



## palmfish

solude said:


> Most receivers have opamp headphone sections, no buffers, no discrete output, just whatever TI is selling as a headphone opamp at the time.  W4S mINT made a big deal out of it and all I could think is... why oh why are you trying to 'sell' people on the wonders of a $2 chip in a $1500 product?  Problem with the vintage ones is they are just the speaker taps with massive inline resistors that drive down the power while jacking up the output impedance.  Read huge changes to the freq resp and poor control.




Thats why there are so many amp choices on the market. Each has its relative strengths and weaknesses.

A nice vintage amp will drive some headphones beautifully if those headphones are compatible (re: high/flat impedance curve) with their typically high output impedance.

A well designed and implemented opamp based amp can also be an outstanding performer. Same with discrete designs and OTL amps. 

In my case, I approach the subject from the perspective that the recording and the headphones account for 90-95% of what we hear, and amp+DAC account for the remaining 5-10%. Obviously using tubes or mismatched gear will change the ratio, but generally, this works for me.


----------



## Solude

Burson Soloist


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I'm working my way through this thread (almost halfway through), and there have been plenty of discussions about potential pairings of amps with the hd800.  I thought the Bryston BHA-1 looked good because:
> 
> 1. I have 2 tube amps, not looking for another, want SS.
> 2. Want something that will do the HD800 justice and sound higher end than my Lyr or LD MKIV.
> ...


 
   
  Can't speak on the V200.  However, the GS-X mkII would be my pick over the BHA-1.  I use to own it and with the HD800 the GS-X mkII is a win win.  
   
  All depending on your buget as well.


----------



## philo50

Quote: 





solude said:


> Burson Soloist


 
  had the Soloist,have the Conductor.....works great


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





philo50 said:


> had the Soloist,have the Conductor.....works great


 
   
  Would the Conductor give me noticeable improvement over  Bifrost (which I already own) -> Soloist  ?


----------



## rawrster

It's a bit odd you are considering the V200 if you are looking at balanced since it only has 2 SE outputs.


----------



## philo50

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Would the Conductor give me noticeable improvement over  Bifrost (which I already own) -> Soloist  ?


 
  the Conductor is basically a Soloist with a Sabre 18 dac.....can't speak to the Bifrost but I much preferred the Conductor dac to the Gungnir which I have owned and sold....


----------



## philo50

to be fair though, I do use Audiophilleo2 with my dacs so that does make a difference....


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> It's a bit odd you are considering the V200 if you are looking at balanced since it only has 2 SE outputs.


 
   
  Quite correct, obviously ..... just trying to look at all the options before the wallet flies open again.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Would the Conductor give me noticeable improvement over  Bifrost (which I already own) -> Soloist  ?


 
   
  Yes. The Conductor is also better than the sum of its parts according to 6moons and others who have tested.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> I'm working my way through this thread (almost halfway through), and there have been plenty of discussions about potential pairings of amps with the hd800.  I thought the Bryston BHA-1 looked good because:
> 
> 1. I have 2 tube amps, not looking for another, want SS.
> 2. Want something that will do the HD800 justice and sound higher end than my Lyr or LD MKIV.
> ...


 
   
  If you buy the BHA-1, plan to only run it in balanced mode. The unbalanced port suffers from suboptimal SQ.


----------



## Solude

Which is somehow fixed by running the suboptimal sound quality into itself to create the balanced side /facepalm


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Nothing is fixed by slapping yourself in the head repeatedly. It may also result in a loss of long-term sound quality.


----------



## jtinto

Quote: 





nick dangerous said:


> Nothing is fixed by slapping yourself in the head repeatedly. It may also result in a loss of long-term sound quality.


----------



## silversurfer616

Get a cheap Phoenix so you have both un/ balanced and lots of power.
  Get mine
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....as I have just bought a vintage Pioneer XS1010 with 6 W in the headphone output!!!!


----------



## OrbitingCow

Denon's mid to high-end lines are all discrete. My 2112ci is discrete and so are the two or so lines below this. As I said, receivers have come a long was since the 90s. Let's not get stuck in the crappy receiver myth. Higher-end Denons are extreme value and they are pretty much the best receivers on the market and better than their Pioneer counterparts in just about every way. I should know as I researched these things for quite some time. I went over all the chips and design documents I could find to make sure I wasn't getting some integrated piece of crap. As for the headphone impedances I think Denon designs their systems pretty well.
   
  As far as I know they drive all impedances I have tried from 18-300. Tons of power and bass and that is a sign they are doing just fine.
   
  I know what good sound amounts to in the end and I don't need the best of the best of the best. I have listened to Krell with B&Os and all the rest in systems that would put the HD800s to shame for the most part if you are talking concert-like sound. Most of the time a 10000 amp isn't doing anything that a 2000 dollar amp can do. And this scales downwards. I'm not really concerned about the amp tbh. I just wanted some details on the upper-end of these headphones.


----------



## OrbitingCow

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> IME, the Denon receivers have a high output impedance at the headphone jack.
> 
> I didnt like the way the HD800 sounded out of it when I tried it. Of course, YMMV.


 

 Yeah, IDK, kind of hard to take that for anything. Denon makes some pretty decent headphones and they know what they are doing I'm sure as they have been designing amps for decades. I don't really have any other choice as I'm not spending 2000 dollars on an amp when I have one right here that sounds fine.
   
  I use MPC and process if needed the EQ at 32-bit floating point. Denon is pure direct mode to headphones and I have never had a problem amping higher ohms headphones. The bass out of the 1350s, with a tight seal, is actually pretty incredible and sounds good enough in the pound region to match a smaller sub with lower wattage in all but the lowest tangible frequencies. For 80 ohm headphones I have a decent bit of headroom on this amp. 300 should be fine for everyday headphones.


----------



## Nick Dangerous

While I can't vouch for Denon headphone output, I can say "Amen" to the Denon praise above. When I learned in 2011 that I could buy a Denon w/Dolby Digital with Audyssey MultiEQ XT room equalization built-in for about $300... I knew we'd just crossed a major new performance paradigm. Still in disbelief at the amount of tech for the money in that 1712.


----------



## OrbitingCow

I hear you man. 2112ci refurb for 390 here.
   
  Nothing I could see but a scratch on front and didn't even look like it was opened up although it does have the refurb sticker which tears paint if it comes off.
   
  So far honestly there is no better deal on the market. This thing is incredible. I researched the Denon lines for quite some time to arrive at my decision for this one.
   
  Plus, if I do replace my amp it is more than likely going to be with a high-end Denon, as I need something that can host a lot of connections. and only if they change their chipsets and stuff. From what I saw this 2112ci had the same chipsets as the higher-end ones for DACs at the time, and it doesn't look like a whole lot has changed at the moment.
   
  If I did honestly think the HD800s sounded bad with these I would in the end probably get something in the 1000 dollar range for amperage. Any recommendations in that range?


----------



## Nick Dangerous

Audyssey is so amazingly effective at what it does, I'd never recommend buying a home theater amplifier without it. It transformed a crappy, echoey, narrow hallway of a room into an expansive sound theater... and was easy to do.
   
  Huge... and cheap! Total win.
   
  Anyway, I digress. Haven't stuck my HD800 into the 1712. Think I'll try that now... what the heck.


----------



## OrbitingCow

For the record this is what the Denon 2112ci has: AKM Semiconductor 24-bit/192-kHz AK4358VQ x 2 per channel differential.
   
  Nick, it looks like your ADCs are the same as mine but on the site it doesn't list the DACs. Prolly the same I guess no idea but just remember to use 2 channel direct pure if you can and tell me what you think! Also, remember that I can EQ pretty easily and lose almost nothing if some SMALL problem is in the high-end or something like that.


----------



## longbowbbs

OK, time for a mini-review on Denon receiver HP capabilities.
   
  I fired up the Denon AVR-4311CI with the HD800's. I used my Denon DVD-5900 DVD/SACD as source via the Denon Link digital connection. Test disc's were the DTS version of Alan Parsons "On Air", The SACD of Nick Drake's "A Treasury" and a regular Redbook CD of the Eagles "Their Greatest Hits".
   
   

   

   
   
  The Denon receiver uses 2 AKM 4358 DAC's to cover it's 11.2 processing:
   
_* The Denon AVR-4311CI receiver uses TWO AKM DACs, the exact same DAC as in the 3311 receiver._
_Because the AVR-4311 receiver is an 11.2-channel receiver, it has 13 preouts for 13 channels. So it needs 13 DACs. And TWO AK4358 DACs equals 16 DACs all together; the three extra DACs are NOT used. _
   
  The Denon DVD-5900 uses a pair of Burr-Brown 24 bit/192 PCM/DSD 1790 Audio DAC's
   
  A review of the DVD-5900 by Kris Deering can be found here:
   
  http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_1/denon-dvd-5900-dvd-player-2-2004.html
   
  After a couple of hours A/B'ing between the Denon AVR-4311CI and my Decware CSP2+/Taboo MK III using the same DVD-5900 source it was no contest between them. The Decware was easily superior to the Denon for HP use.
   
  The Denon is clean, but sterile in its presentation. Even with the vaunted HD800 it felt flat and much less dimensionality. You hear everything, but it is artificial in its presentation.
   
  Switching to the Decware things really open up. Alan Parson "On Air" casts a wide soundstage and the Decware revealed it fully. Suddenly you had depth alongside height and width. 
   
  Listening to Nick Drake, both gave you the pluck of the guitar, but only the Decware gave a sense of the room Nick was playing in. A good analogy would be the Denon was like watching a well shot 2D movie, while the Decware was a ticket to the second row of the coffee house.
   
  The Eagles "One of these Nights" has a great bass line and some really nice high hat cymbals to anchor the great guitar and vocals. This was the best comparison for the Denon. I do not know if this was due it this being the only non HD disc, but it was a somewhat closer contest. Still, it was no trouble distinguishing and enjoying the extra provided by the Decware.
   
  The Denon is a great piece for home theater. It runs my M&K 150's and SV Sub beautifully. The Decware would never do justice a good disaster movie and a large popcorn. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The Decware pair runs 1/3 more in combination than the Denon receiver and has only 2 channel to worry about. The victory for exclusive 2 channel Headphone use was not a surprise. These are 2 systems that have primary roles for entertainment. Ultimately, I am really glad I have both. But I know where my HD800's will be plugged into!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

well at least you can hear everything even if it sounds lifeless and flat. i tried HD 800s out of my crappy HTIB receiver (panasonic junk i bought when i was 16 or 17, way before i got into headphones), so i could play games/music with them on the TV, and it was terrible. the hd 800s where edgy, grainy, thin, and bass less. really bad.


----------



## longbowbbs

It's not tragic, just not all that the HD800's can do.


----------



## BournePerfect

It's tragic when you've heard them on a better rig imo. It's always the downgrade that is more noticeable imo than the upgrade. That's why the E9 = ZDSE crowd always cracks me up. Live with both systems, get accustomed to the  differences, and the downgrade will almost always be night/day.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

Someone said that the AD900X's have 85% of the sound quality that the HD800's have. Does anyone agree to this? Because if it's true, I think I might get the AD900X's instead of the HD650's when I upgrade to open cans


----------



## palmfish

longbowbbs said:


> OK, time for a mini-review on Denon receiver HP capabilities.
> 
> I fired up the Denon AVR-4311CI with the HD800's. I used my Denon DVD-5900 DVD/SACD as source via the Denon Link digital connection. Test disc's were the DTS version of Alan Parsons "On Air", The SACD of Nick Drake's "A Treasury" and a regular Redbook CD of the Eagles "Their Greatest Hits".
> 
> ...




That wasnt a comparison between the Denon and Decware. It was a comparison between solid state and tubes.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> It's tragic when you've heard them on a better rig imo. It's always the downgrade that is more noticeable imo than the upgrade. That's why the E9 = ZDSE crowd always cracks me up. Live with both systems, get accustomed to the  differences, and the downgrade will almost always be night/day.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  True enough...I do not have to compromise here...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote:  





> That wasnt a comparison between the Denon and Decware. It was a comparison between solid state and tubes.


 
   
  That is certainly a relavant point.  However, I would want to use something like the Headamp GS-X mk2 vs the Decware to get a nice SS vs Tubes comparison. That way you are comparing items built for the same specific task.


----------



## palmfish

longbowbbs said:


> That is certainly a relavant point.  However, I would want to use something like the Headamp GS-X mk2 vs the Decware to get a nice SS vs Tubes comparison. That way you are comparing items built for the same specific task.




Agreed, that would be a more appropriate comparison. I think if you compared the Denon vs. a V200 you might be surprised though.

Although again, the Denon with its high output impedance does tend to muddy up the 800s mid-bass a bit.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





3ternaldr4gon said:


> *Someone said that the AD900X's have 85% of the sound quality that the HD800's have.* Does anyone agree to this? Because if it's true, I think I might get the AD900X's instead of the HD650's when I upgrade to open cans


 
  Blasphemy to the HD800's. Not even remotely close in sound. The only mid level headphone that resembles closely to the HD800 sound is the SA5k or SA3k with 5k pads (same drivers, different housing and different pads).


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> It was a comparison between solid state and tubes.


 
   
  Great solid state has all the attributes of great tubes.  My Soloist and GS-X mk2 just stomped my tubes amps everywhere while the tubes stomped other solid state I've had.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Blasphemy to the HD800's. Not even remotely close in sound. The only mid level headphone that resembles closely to the HD800 sound is the SA5k or SA3k with 5k pads (same drivers, different housing and different pads).


 

 +1. It's scary how much detail the Sony SAx000 can bring up when compared to the HD800.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> +1. It's scary how much detail the Sony SAx000 can bring up when compared to the HD800.


 
  Yeah they a pita to get the right amplification though, it either sounds crap or really good. But they sound best out of solid states with bass boost on.


----------



## OrbitingCow

Thanks for that reply man. About exactly what I expected. That MKIII amp is a lot of money and I have the same DACs in my Denon 2112ci as the high-range Denon. Mine costed 388 so I think of it as a very budget-oriented amp. I have 700GB of FLAC music and the Denon helps with the whole painless, digital networking idea. You also gave me a good recommendation for an amp if I so choose to go that extra step. Thanks. Any more recommendations in the 1500 range for amps? Any solid state designs for recommendations?
   
  Again, I am not about to start a solid vs tube war. I know the differences to a point and some people will swear by tubes as above and others will swear by solid state. Not really a problem for me as I can have both. The Denon should have zero problems with these in the mid-high-range audio level. It's exactly what I wanted to know. The fact you can get some of the circuitry in the high-level Denons at a very reduced price all the way to the 1712ci makes it a great value for those that want value in lower dollars. Note: It must be said you shouldn't go below the 2112ci for video with the Denon range as there was a huge issue with this line not passing a full range video signal that was fixed through firmware update. Also, does anyone actually know the output impedance of the Denons?


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





3ternaldr4gon said:


> Someone said that the AD900X's have 85% of the sound quality that the HD800's have. Does anyone agree to this? Because if it's true, I think I might get the AD900X's instead of the HD650's when I upgrade to open cans


 
   
  They may very well be 85% of the sound quality of the HD800, but what headphone represents 50%?  25%?  0%?  Without knowing another point of reference, they're useless.  If the HD650 were to represent 50% of the sound quality, then I'd say that's an enormous compliment (and absolutely wrong).  If 0% represents a busted bullhorn, then that's a huge slap in the face to the AD900X.  
   
  TL;DR summary - As a rule, assume all percentage difference opinions are completely arbitrary/useless.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Yeah they a pita to get the right amplification though, it either sounds crap or really good. But they sound best out of solid states with bass boost on.


 

 I agree. The bass is severely lacking on the Sony's. But at 1/4 and less than the HD800, they are a total bargain.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





solude said:


> Great solid state has all the attributes of great tubes.  My Soloist and GS-X mk2 just stomped my tubes amps everywhere while the tubes stomped other solid state I've had.


 
  Is ist about the time you are ready to sell the GSX? This may be the longest time you have had an amp.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Can't speak on the V200.  However, the GS-X mkII would be my pick over the BHA-1.  I use to own it and with the HD800 the GS-X mkII is a win win.
> 
> All depending on your buget as well.


 
   
  For the $1k price range, I'd go Soloist or V200. If you can open your budget, then the GS-X is a fantastic option!


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Is ist about the time you are ready to sell the GSX? This may be the longest time you have had an amp.


 
   
  Too true   To be fair there have been some amps that last a while in house... HeadAmp Reference, HeadAmp KGSS, Apex Peak and now the HeadAmp GS-X mk2 which is kind of a return to the original king.  So err umm the king is dead, long live the king =)


----------



## Solude

I'd still like to hear a DHT amp some day but no luck finding that ditch filled with $1000s yet


----------



## xphynance

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Blasphemy to the HD800's. Not even remotely close in sound. The only mid level headphone that resembles closely to the HD800 sound is the SA5k or SA3k with 5k pads (same drivers, different housing and different pads).


 
  +2, I owned AD900X's for 2 weeks and returned. HD800s make them sound like toy...


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> It's tragic when you've heard them on a better rig imo. It's always the downgrade that is more noticeable imo than the upgrade. That's why the E9 = ZDSE crowd always cracks me up. Live with both systems, get accustomed to the  differences, and the downgrade will almost always be night/day.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  you are dead right on that one. not that i have hd 800 or anything but but when i let people listen to my rig who are coming from ****ty setups they always say - "yea but is really worth paying all that money for just a bit more quality" i should of thought to say "live with both systems, get accustomed to the diferences and then come back to me.


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Blasphemy to the HD800's. Not even remotely close in sound. The only mid level headphone that resembles closely to the HD800 sound is the SA5k or SA3k with 5k pads (same drivers, different housing and different pads).


 
  So my local store has SA3000's on sale for $170...should I snap-buy these?
   
  I just purchased A900X's, K550's, and MXW1's recently (all at steal prices). I'm guessing I would need a pricey amp + source to maximize the efficiency of these cans right?


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





solude said:


> Great solid state has all the attributes of great tubes.  My Soloist and GS-X mk2 just stomped my tubes amps everywhere while the tubes stomped other solid state I've had.


 
   
  + 100 !!


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





3ternaldr4gon said:


> So my local store has SA3000's on sale for $170...should I snap-buy these?
> 
> I just purchased A900X's, K550's, and MXW1's recently (all at steal prices). I'm guessing I would need a pricey amp + source to maximize the efficiency of these cans right?


 
  Amazon has the SA3k for around $140-160. I purchased mine for $160 brand new shipped from New Mexico while back. The best amp I have found for the SA3K would be the M3 with bass boost. Heck I even enjoy them out of my FIIO E11 with high gain, eq bass at 1, they do benefit from more power though. If you're feeling more adventurous do the mods I performed on them, take the pads, dampen the angle driver sides, unscrew the driver housing and remove the felt covering the magnet port that allows air into the membrane, use a single cotton ball and put it in sandwiched between the outter grill and the driver port itself. Reterminate the cable to balanced SPC or pure copper and run it balanced for audio bliss. 
   
  I have not had any luck with these and tube amp's, a few owners back then reported that these sound superb out of the singlepower MP3X slam but yet again, those headphone amp's are just as dangerous as playing russian roulette.


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

My god lol, is there a step-by-step tutorial on how to do that stuff? I feel like I would break them during the process of trying to attempt what you're doing lol. I really appreciate your response though.
   
  And does all this include using an iPod as a source? I always wondered what sources you guys use for the elite-class of headphones


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





3ternaldr4gon said:


> My god lol, is there a step-by-step tutorial on how to do that stuff? I feel like I would break them during the process of trying to attempt what you're doing lol. I really appreciate your response though.
> 
> And does all this include using an iPod as a source? I always wondered what sources you guys use for the elite-class of headphones


 
   
  The HD800's are a greedy beast! If your source and amp are not up to it then you will have a less than awesome experience. I generally do not use the iPod for the HD800 source unless I have a decent portable iDevice (HP-P1) in the chain.


----------



## wink

Quote: 





> Quoteukeskd
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  This comparison is almost like the difference between the K1000 Bass heavy and bass light.
  The exception is the HD800 has more detail retriival than the SA5000.


----------



## RedBull

3ternaldr4gon said:


> Someone said that the AD900X's have 85% of the sound quality that the HD800's have. Does anyone agree to this? Because if it's true, I think I might get the AD900X's instead of the HD650's when I upgrade to open cans




No no no, not even close, everywhere.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The HD800's are a greedy beast! If your source and amp are not up to it then you will have a less than awesome experience. I generally do not use the iPod for the HD800 source unless I have a decent portable iDevice (HP-P1) in the chain.


 
   
  They definitely are.
   
  On another note I got my Buffalo III yesterday but I shipped it to work but I took half the day off so naturally it came 20 minutes after I left. I'm going to have to change the way my rig looks a bit to make room for it. According to a few I've asked the Buffalo competes with most of the dacs talked on head-fi a lot so I expect it to replace my D18.


----------



## JWahl

I recently heard the SA3K against my HD800 and they are sooooooo bright and bassless.  Even less bass than K701.  Interesting soundstage presentation though.  Never heard the SA5K.  As for the A900x comment, I doubt it also. If anything, the AD2000X I had comes somewhat close in speed and detail but minus the soundstage and a little less bass, but of course for nearly a third of the price.


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The HD800's are a greedy beast! If your source and amp are not up to it then you will have a less than awesome experience. I generally do not use the iPod for the HD800 source unless I have a decent portable iDevice (HP-P1) in the chain.


 
  While the HD800's do scale extremely well with better gear I recently got to try them straight out of an Audioquest Dragonfly and they sounded much better than I had expected.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jwahl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

   
  They do indeed sound mighty fine out of the DF!


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

Man I have to start posting here more often, I'm getting an insane amount of useful responses lol. All for someone that can't even think about buying HD800's yet lol. I appreciate it guys.
   
  It's pretty upsetting reading some SA5k threads...apparently they used to go for $300?!? Now the cheapest I can find em is just shy of $700...I'll keep digging though. Unless anyone is interested in selling me theirs? 
   
  In case it's not already apparent...I'm harping on the SA5k's because apparently they are the cans that are closet to the quality of the HD800's. That being said, once I get them, what's the optimal way to drive them? Or maybe that's a question I should save for the other forums, I don't want to push your guys' kindness lol.


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> They do indeed sound mighty fine out of the DF!


 
  Ha, I totally didn't realize you owned one when I made that comment.  At least I know I'm not crazy.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





3ternaldr4gon said:


> Man I have to start posting here more often, I'm getting an insane amount of useful responses lol. All for someone that can't even think about buying HD800's yet lol. I appreciate it guys.
> 
> It's pretty upsetting reading some SA5k threads...apparently they used to go for $300?!? Now the cheapest I can find em is just shy of $700...I'll keep digging though. Unless anyone is interested in selling me theirs?
> 
> In case it's not already apparent...I'm harping on the SA5k's because apparently they are the cans that are closet to the quality of the HD800's. That being said, once I get them, what's the optimal way to drive them? Or maybe that's a question I should save for the other forums, I don't want to push your guys' kindness lol.


 
   
  IIRC there was a sale a while back for the SA5k going for some price around that. However if the SA5k at going for $700 I would just save a bit more and buy a used HD800. They usually go in the 1k-1,1k range however that does assume that you have a good setup already for the HD800.
   
  I hooked my Buffalo III into my rig replacing my D18. It will be somewhat difficult to compare them since I connect to the D18 with a usb/spdif converter and the Buffalo with the same converter. Is there anything out there that can be a usb to spdif for both 2 different DACs?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> IIRC there was a sale a while back for the SA5k going for some price around that. However if the SA5k at going for $700 I would just save a bit more and buy a used HD800. They usually go in the 1k-1,1k range however that does assume that you have a good setup already for the HD800.
> 
> I hooked my Buffalo III into my rig replacing my D18. It will be somewhat difficult to compare them since I connect to the D18 with a usb/spdif converter and the Buffalo with the same converter. Is there anything out there that can be a usb to spdif for both 2 different DACs?


 
   
  Does you converter have multiple outputs?


----------



## rawrster

I didn't think of that. I've always ignored the toslink connection but I guess that will have to do for a comparison.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote:  





> In case it's not already apparent...I'm harping on the SA5k's because apparently they are the cans that are closet to the quality of the HD800's. That being said, once I get them, what's the optimal way to drive them? Or maybe that's a question I should save for the other forums, I don't want to push your guys' kindness lol.


 
   
  They look kind of similar and sport a better build, other than that there is very little in common. Yes, they are detailed, not HD800 level but close. Soundstage is much smaller, the bass is lesser developed, and mids are quite cold. In general they sounded quite sterile and unengaging on my SS setup.
  The closest thing to them I can think of is DT880, quite similar, only SA5000 is faster, both are kind of lifeless (no offense to Beyer fans, this is how I hear them)
  I personally have found ATH-W5000 sharing some traits with HD800 like level of resolution, spacious soundstage, pretty close treble presentation, comparable hard hitting, textured bass (if you make them fit), only HD800 has more air moving in sub bass area, there is quite a coloration going in midrange but that just adds some euphony and character.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> I didn't think of that. I've always ignored the toslink connection but I guess that will have to do for a comparison.
> 
> Thanks


----------



## drez

longbowbbs said:


> jwahl said:
> 
> 
> > longbowbbs said:
> ...




Tried this pairing at a recent meet. It was quite good but dynamics were lacking relative to full sized amps. Still better than the headphone out of a laptop etc.


----------



## BobJS

^^^^  Totally agree about the DF .... the sad thing is, on an impulse, I ordered the Burson Conductor , Amazon Prime.   I am so disappointed in it that I would prefer listening out of the DF!   Makes the Bifrost/Lyr comb sound very, very good, and the DF-> LD MKIV/SE extremely good. 
   
  The Burson's going back.  To my ears, it sounds like they bent over so far backwards to get a smooth, tubey sound that I feel there's a lot of high frequency content missing.  I think this also degrades the imaging a bit (relatively). The lows are there, but can't compare with the punch of the lows put out by the LD, or even the Lyr.
   
  I didn't put many hours on it, but how much could a SS amp change due to burn-in?


----------



## verber

I guess I have been spoiled.  I was disappointed with the HD800 out of the DF directly or from an iPhone feeding a HP-P1.  It's not that the HD800 sounded bad, but it just didn't have the dynamics I have come to expect and a good bit of the detail seemed to be missing.  The DF + Headamp Pico Power is another story.  Made me pause for a bit and ask the question "Is this good enough that I could give up my full size DAC and my headphone amp?".  The answer was "No", but I did have to think about it for awhile.
   
  --Mark


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> I didn't think of that. I've always ignored the toslink connection but I guess that will have to do for a comparison.
> 
> Thanks


 
  Toslink can be the better option if you are using a computer as source, as the noise from computers can travel through metal but not through light 
   
  Yes, I am an a**hole


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> The Burson's going back.  To my ears, it sounds like they bent over so far backwards to get a smooth, tubey sound that I feel there's a lot of high frequency content missing.


 
   
  That's what an HD800 actually sound like   It's only treble tilted on amps that can't swing the voltage in the impedance bump.  The only amp I prefer to the Burson Soloist/Conductor is the GS-X mk2.  The GS-X mk2 delivers even more bass, warmth and an even more butter smooth treble.  Now the Burson HA-160 series... sounds like what you wrote.  And like all solid state class A amps, they need to come up to temp to sound best.  The new Burson takes about 4 hours to get good, 24 hours to stabilize.  Essentially... leave it on.


----------



## retrophonic

This is good to know, I currently have the Burson Audio Soloist and a pair of HD800'S on the way.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





drez said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The DF is not going to stand up against a full dedicated amp. However, I have had it since the first week it came out and what impresses me is that it does so much right, I can easily forgive it for any shortcomings...


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> The Burson's going back.  To my ears, it sounds like they bent over so far backwards to get a smooth, tubey sound that I feel there's a lot of high frequency content missing.
> 
> 
> I didn't put many hours on it, but how much could a SS amp change due to burn-in?


 
   
  Quote: 





solude said:


> That's what an HD800 actually sound like   It's only treble tilted on amps that can't swing the voltage in the impedance bump.  The only amp I prefer to the Burson Soloist/Conductor is the GS-X mk2.  The GS-X mk2 delivers even more bass, warmth and an even more butter smooth treble.  Now the Burson HA-160 series... sounds like what you wrote.  And like all solid state class A amps, they need to come up to temp to sound best.  The new Burson takes about 4 hours to get good, 24 hours to stabilize.  Essentially... leave it on.


 
   
  You may have something there .... I let it play unattended overnight.  It was good and warm (thermally) this morning and it sounded like it opened up a bit.  I guess I'll hang on a week or two before I come to any final conclusions.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> You may have something there .... I let it play unattended overnight.  It was good and warm (thermally) this morning and it sounded like it opened up a bit.  I guess I'll hang on a week or two before I come to any final conclusions.


 
   
  I am listening to my HD800s off the Conductor right now. Some days if I am around a lot, I don't turn it off. People usually notice burn-in changes at around 50-70 hours, then again at 150-200 if my memory serves right. I don't think there's any high frequency content is missing, it's actually quite strong in this area. Even more so considering the price range. There's no treble rolloff going on with the Conductor. Not sure what you are comparing it with, but I could call the V200 tubey sounding, the Conductor is more neutral/engaging/dynamic/airy/open.
   
  If you are able to leverage the money back from Amazon anyway, it would be worthwhile to give it a good burn-in first and let us hear again in a few days time.


----------



## E976

I have had a pair for a few years and always liked how they sounded. But I have to say that my new Cavalli LG makes them sound better than ever -- and that is with the stock tubes. I now understand why so many people have commented on amp dependency.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





e976 said:


> I have had a pair for a few years and always liked how they sounded. But I have to say that my new Cavalli LG makes them sound better than ever -- and that is with the stock tubes. I now understand why so many people have commented on amp dependency.


 
   
  I'd suggest RCA "coin base" 6SN7 as a very good tube in the LG for the HD800.


----------



## silversurfer616

Had the chance to get a vintage 1974 Pioneer SX1010 which has a headphone stage output of 6 W and compared to running my HD800 balanced through my  Phoenix(+ balanced DAC)it is....really,Day and Night!
  This vintage receiver completely removes the only thing I never really like with the HD800....that dryness which sometimes makes you long for the "Juice/Gel" to connect all the stunningly reproduced instruments/voices/sounds into a coherent soundscape.Also,everything is even more 3-D/holographic and the 6 W really provide "authority".
  Can't see me using the Phoenix any longer!


----------



## MorbidToaster

jazzerdave said:


> I'd suggest RCA "coin base" 6SN7 as a very good tube in the LG for the HD800.




+1. My favorite HD800 sound ever has been from an LG with that tube.


----------



## wink

I thought my HD800 were sounding extra-lifelike until I realised they weren't powered up when I was wearing them.
   
  Shows hows how transparent they are.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





wink said:


> I thought my HD800 were sounding extra-lifelike until I realised they weren't powered up when I was wearing them.
> 
> Shows hows how transparent they are.


 
  +1.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Yeah, happens to me, too. Thinking the soundstage is incredible, until i realize that the speakers are turned on, and that I'm listening them through the sieve  that is the hd800.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Yeah, happens to me, too. Thinking the soundstage is incredible, until i realize that the speakers are turned on, and that I'm listening them through the sieve  that is the hd800.


 
  Did that last night watching a movie.  Figured it out when a neighbor asked me to turn it down....


----------



## E976

jazzerdave said:


> I'd suggest RCA "coin base" 6SN7 as a very good tube in the LG for the HD800.




I noticed that suggestion on the Cavalli website on LG tube rolling. I am pretty new to tube rolling so is there a technical term that is used for "coin base"? I have seen RCA 6SN7's advertised but it is not always clear they are "coin base" versions -- or did RCA only produce that version?


----------



## MorbidToaster

e976 said:


> I noticed that suggestion on the Cavalli website on LG tube rolling. I am pretty new to tube rolling so is there a technical term that is used for "coin base"? I have seen RCA 6SN7's advertised but it is not always clear they are "coin base" versions -- or did RCA only produce that version?




Chances are that they're talking about the coin base tube. Alex has taken it to meets, shows, etc.

It's an old TV tube.


----------



## rgs9200m

I'm surprised someone doesn't try and build after-market improved pads for the HD800 given the number of these phones out there.
  The pads are pretty good, but I think there is some room for improvement,
  such as some extra padding on the lower portion that rests on one's cheekbone.


----------



## RIQUE

I have seen some HD800 with a light blue outside ring. Mine are all silver. Why are these different?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





rique said:


> I have seen some HD800 with a light blue outside ring. Mine are all silver. Why are these different?


 
  Company called ColorWare can custom color them for you when you buy from them.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Company called ColorWare can custom color them for you when you buy from them.


 
   
  +1
   
  colorware and also theres a limited edition hd 800 with the blue ring and a black color scheme


----------



## palmfish

I heard Tylls version of the Anaxilus mod this weekend at the Seattle head-fi meet and was impressed. Modded mine yesterday.

My findings are the same as many others - noticeable reduction in stridency with bright recordings with a little thickening of the mid-bass. Generally speaking I slightly prefer the original thinner mid-bass, but post mod is overall smoother and better sounding with the vast majority of my recordings. Makes the pairing with my DAC1 just heavenly now!

A very worthy investment of $9 and 30 minutes. 

BTW, I got to sample my 800's with several very nice tube amps - an ECBA, the new Bottlehead prototype amp and DAC, and the Coffman Labs H1-A. A very productive meet


----------



## FraGGleR

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I heard Tylls version of the Anaxilus mod this weekend at the Seattle head-fi meet and was impressed. Modded mine yesterday.
> 
> My findings are the same as many others - noticeable reduction in stridency with bright recordings with a little thickening of the mid-bass. Generally speaking I slightly prefer the original thinner mid-bass, but post mod is overall smoother and better sounding with the vast majority of my recordings. Makes the pairing with my DAC1 just heavenly now!
> 
> ...


 
  Ooooooh!  How was the Bottlehead DAC?  Do you know if it was close to production?  How about the prototype amp?
   
  I really enjoy my Innerfidelity (Anaxilus) modded HD800s out of my Bottlehead S.E.X. and have been really curious about a possible super amp and matching DAC from them.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





fraggler said:


> Ooooooh!  How was the Bottlehead DAC?  Do you know if it was close to production?  How about the prototype amp?
> 
> I really enjoy my Innerfidelity (Anaxilus) modded HD800s out of my Bottlehead S.E.X. and have been really curious about a possible super amp and matching DAC from them.


 
   
  The Bottlehead DAC was very good. It is close to production, but he did mention possibly switching to a different chipset than the one in the prototype. The DAC sounded warm and musical, and resolving - definitely a good match for the HD800. The amp is very neutral sounding to my ears - it allowed the DAC to shine through. The amp is very well built with high quality parts and versatile connectivity (balanced and single-ended, switchable high/low impedance, stepped volume, etc.
   
  You can find pictures and some more comments about them at the Seattle "quattro de mayo" impressions thread.


----------



## EasySounds

Hey all,
   
  Apologies if this has been posted somewhere before.
   
  Since the manual doesn't touch upon this, does the HD 800 require a specific burn-in time (and how loud)? And what's the difference like after burn-in?

 Thanks.


----------



## Solude

100 hours, 80dB
   
  Ya pulled it right out of the air   It is what I do, but have no real data to back it up as 'the way'.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





solude said:


> 100 hours, 80dB
> 
> Ya pulled it right out of the air   It is what I do, but have no real data to back it up as 'the way'.


 
  Heh, I just listen to them for days on end ignoring all other things in life until I have to go out to get food...well not really, but I just listen to them and break them in as I do.  no special process.


----------



## EasySounds

Thanks for the replies.
  Quote: 





solude said:


> 100 hours, 80dB
> 
> Ya pulled it right out of the air   It is what I do, but have no real data to back it up as 'the way'.


 
  Hmm... this is gonna expose my newbishness but how do I know if I'm doing 80db just using the knob on my amp/dac (NFB11.32)? 
  Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Heh, I just listen to them for days on end ignoring all other things in life until I have to go out to get food...well not really, but I just listen to them and break them in as I do.  no special process.


 
  That's what I do in general, but for the hifiman he-500s I observed - may be more psychological than real - that there seemed to be a marked, although slight, improvement in sound after a certain point of listening. Just wondering how distinctive this is for the HD 800s.
   
  Anyway, thanks.


----------



## Solude

dB metre.  Can get one cheap at eletronics store or even a smart phone app.  If nothing else it's important for knowing where on the dial things get loud enough to damage hearing.


----------



## EasySounds

Quote: 





solude said:


> dB metre.  Can get one cheap at eletronics store or even a smart phone app.  If nothing else it's important for knowing where on the dial things get loud enough to damage hearing.


 
  Hey Solude,
   
  Ok, time for me to look this up.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Solude

Best $30 I ever spent.


----------



## Taliesin

I was wondering of anyone could help me by compairing one or more of these woo audio amps performances with the hd800. The amps im looking at are the :
WA7
WA6
WA3
WA2
Thanks


----------



## Dubstep Girl

WA6-SE or WA2 are both great with HD 800. both require tube rolling to really get the most out of them.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> I was wondering of anyone could help me by compairing one or more of these woo audio amps performances with the hd800. The amps im looking at are the :
> WA7
> WA6
> WA3
> ...


 
  Haven't heard the WA2 but have heard the upper WA22. My list in order of preference although I don't think highly of Woo amp's, they pretty much sound the same one way or another.
   
  1. WA5 (the sound is nowhere near worth the price imo, better options out there that are well regarded)
  2. WA22 = WA6SE regardless of balance operation or not it is roughly the same sounding.
  3. WA6 = WA3 (modded)
  4. WA3
  5. WA7


----------



## Taliesin

I'm not looking at either wa22 or wa5, both too expensive. What's would be better a wa3 or wa6 with all tubes upgrades vs stock wa2 vs stock wa7


----------



## Dubstep Girl

stock WA6-SE or stock WA2.


----------



## skeptic

taliesin said:


> I'm not looking at either wa22 or wa5, both too expensive. What's would be better a wa3 or wa6 with all tubes upgrades vs stock wa2 vs stock wa7




I would drop the wa3 off your list. It simply isn't detailed or dynamic enough to show off what the hd800's have to offer. In that price range, a bottlehead crack with speedball is a far better match for the hd800's if you either own a soldering iron or buy used. 

Moving on up the woo lineup, the wa2 is a more refined, higher resolution, higher power version of the wa3, while the wa6/wa22 are transformer coupled designs that sound quite a bit more dynamic and punchy than the otl woo amps (closer to ss per jack woo).


----------



## kazsud

Which is better w/ bass?


----------



## Taliesin

which would warm the hd800 up to most and give the best bass impact?


----------



## LifeAspect

for the price of Wa22 you can buy a Zana Deux SE which performs better with than the woo audio...so why bother?


----------



## charvak

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> I'm surprised someone doesn't try and build after-market improved pads for the HD800 given the number of these phones out there.
> The pads are pretty good, but I think there is some room for improvement,
> such as some extra padding on the lower portion that rests on one's cheekbone.


 
  It's funny you suggest improved pads because I thought they feel extremely comfortable already.  I have the HD650 and tried the HD800.  The HD800 feel lighter and wrap my ears better.  If only they didn't look so funny, I might consider a pair.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





charvak said:


> It's funny you suggest improved pads because I thought they feel extremely comfortable already.  I have the HD650 and tried the HD800.  The HD800 feel lighter and wrap my ears better.  If only they didn't look so funny, I might consider a pair.


 
  They are pretty good, but I came from R10s, so I feel thicker pads would be better, especially after an hour or so of listening.
  I'm just surprised nobody has even attempted to build one with the huge embedded base of these. Some may even like leather.
  OTOH, I love the look.


----------



## silversurfer616

In regards of the Woos...I had the WA6 with the HD800 and it was great....so I thought and then I got a vintage Pioneer SX1010 with 6W in the headphone out and it is Day and Night!
  I am done with dedicated headphone amps!My Phoenix will be the next to go!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> In regards of the Woos...I had the WA6 with the HD800 and it was great....so I thought and then I got a vintage Pioneer SX1010 with 6W in the headphone out and it is Day and Night!
> I am done with dedicated headphone amps!My Phoenix will be the next to go!


 
  harsh words!!


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> ^^^^  Totally agree about the DF .... the sad thing is, on an impulse, I ordered the Burson Conductor , Amazon Prime.   I am so disappointed in it that I would prefer listening out of the DF!   Makes the Bifrost/Lyr comb sound very, very good, and the DF-> LD MKIV/SE extremely good.
> 
> The Burson's going back.  To my ears, it sounds like they bent over so far backwards to get a smooth, tubey sound that I feel there's a lot of high frequency content missing.  I think this also degrades the imaging a bit (relatively). The lows are there, but can't compare with the punch of the lows put out by the LD, or even the Lyr.
> 
> I didn't put many hours on it, but how much could a SS amp change due to burn-in?


 
   
  Quote: 





solude said:


> That's what an HD800 actually sound like   It's only treble tilted on amps that can't swing the voltage in the impedance bump.  The only amp I prefer to the Burson Soloist/Conductor is the GS-X mk2.  The GS-X mk2 delivers even more bass, warmth and an even more butter smooth treble.  Now the Burson HA-160 series... sounds like what you wrote.  And like all solid state class A amps, they need to come up to temp to sound best.  The new Burson takes about 4 hours to get good, 24 hours to stabilize.  Essentially... leave it on.


 
   
  Quote: 





negura said:


> I am listening to my HD800s off the Conductor right now. Some days if I am around a lot, I don't turn it off. People usually notice burn-in changes at around 50-70 hours, then again at 150-200 if my memory serves right. I don't think there's any high frequency content is missing, it's actually quite strong in this area. Even more so considering the price range. There's no treble rolloff going on with the Conductor. Not sure what you are comparing it with, but I could call the V200 tubey sounding, the Conductor is more neutral/engaging/dynamic/airy/open.
> 
> If you are able to leverage the money back from Amazon anyway, it would be worthwhile to give it a good burn-in first and let us hear again in a few days time.


 
   
  Quote: 





bobjs said:


> You may have something there .... I let it play unattended overnight.  It was good and warm (thermally) this morning and it sounded like it opened up a bit.  I guess I'll hang on a week or two before I come to any final conclusions.


 
   
   
  Eating crow.  I've put about 20 hours / day or about 80 hours on it.  Couldn't be happier with the sound.  I never believed in solid state burn-in but I'm a believer now.  Crisp highs, solid, extended lows, and the sound stage has opened up (though not quite on a level with the best tubes on the Lyr or Little Dot).  I also just uber-upgraded my bifrost, haven't had a chance to listen for SQ, just glad it's working!    I'm sorry about my wallet ....


----------



## skeptic

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> which would warm the hd800 up to most and give the best bass impact?


 
   
   
   Of the woo amps I mentioned, the WA2 is warmer and smoother, while the WA6/22 are more dynamic and punchy. However, I agree with LifeAspect that I would take a zana (or my modded crack for that matter) over anything in the woo lineup aside from a woo 5, which simply does marvelous things with the hd800's soundstage (at least in the maxed out configuration in which I heard it).  
   
  Choral music on a woo 5 -> hd800 combo really is the next best thing to listening to live voices in a church like St. Martin in the Fields (where Decca often records).  Just throwing it out there - if you're ever in London and want a free demo of absolutely amazing acoustics, go sit in on an evensong service there and prepare to drop your jaw.
   
  For the best bass impact, you will probably want to look to solid state designs.


----------



## palmfish

Dredging up an old topic...
   
  I finally received my frequency response certificate from Sennheiser and thought I'd post it for posterity.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Eating crow.  I've put about 20 hours / day or about 80 hours on it.  Couldn't be happier with the sound.  I never believed in solid state burn-in but I'm a believer now.  Crisp highs, solid, extended lows, and the sound stage has opened up (though not quite on a level with the best tubes on the Lyr or Little Dot).  I also just uber-upgraded my bifrost, haven't had a chance to listen for SQ, just glad it's working!    I'm sorry about my wallet ....


 
   
  Glad you're enjoying it. It will settle even more. What has recently improved my experience even further is using a badass copper cable with the HD800s. Adds a bit of musicality, body, detail, extension and a hint of warmth.
   
  On a different note:
  I have been asked this question by a friend and I am struggling to decide whether overall I prefer the LCD-3s to the HD800s or the other way around. Obviously asking this here is going to get a slightly biased answer, but what would you folks choose between the LCD-3s and HD800s if you could only have one headphone? And no you cannot answer Stax.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Haven't heard the WA2 but have heard the upper WA22. My list in order of preference although I don't think highly of Woo amp's, they pretty much sound the same one way or another.
> 
> 1. WA5 (the sound is nowhere near worth the price imo, better options out there that are well regarded)
> 2. WA22 = WA6SE regardless of balance operation or not it is roughly the same sounding.
> ...


 
   
  Interesting, I have the WA6SE, which drives the HD800 beautifully.  I am looking for a future upgrade to a WA5LE.  Now you say that they may sound the "same" makes me rethink about buying another Woo.  What are alternatives to the Woo lines, say in the money range of the WA5LE?


----------



## third_eye

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> Interesting, I have the WA6SE, which drives the HD800 beautifully.  I am looking for a future upgrade to a WA5LE.  Now you say that they may sound the "same" makes me rethink about buying another Woo.  What are alternatives to the Woo lines, say in the money range of the WA5LE?


 
   
  I can HIGHLY recommend the DNA Stratus with the HD800 (my rig). The Eddie Current amps are also well worth auditioning and since both vendors are LA based you can hear them at the meet in July or audition earlier if you get in contact with them.


----------



## MorbidToaster

negura said:


> Glad you're enjoying it. It will settle even more. What has recently improved my experience even further is using a badass copper cable with the HD800s. Adds a bit of musicality, body, detail, extension and a hint of warmth.
> 
> On a different note:
> I have been asked this question by a friend and I am struggling to decide whether overall I prefer the LCD-3s to the HD800s or the other way around. Obviously asking this here is going to get a slightly biased answer, but what would you folks choose between the LCD-3s and HD800s if you could only have one headphone? And no you cannot answer Stax.




HD800 all day long. The Ortho wow wore off on me long ago.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> HD800 all day long. The Ortho wow wore off on me long ago.


 
  +1 here, also.


----------



## PleasantSounds

Quote: 





negura said:


> I have been asked this question by a friend and I am struggling to decide whether overall I prefer the LCD-3s to the HD800s or the other way around. Obviously asking this here is going to get a slightly biased answer, but what would you folks choose between the LCD-3s and HD800s if you could only have one headphone? And no you cannot answer Stax.


 
   
  I went through this myself not so long ago, as I'm not too keen on having both and consequently building two specialised systems to support them. My family thinks I'm nuts as it is...
  Anyway, I have studied reviews and opinions, followed by direct experience with both. Ultimately it comes down to personal preferences, but here's a couple of observations:
  1. Based on opinions, the trends are that the LCD3 users keep searching for other headphones, while the Hd800 users seem more satisfied with the headphones but are more choosy regarding the upstream gear. In other words, statistically you'd be more likely to go from LCD3 to HD800 than the other way round. 
  2. My personal experience was biased: before hearing either of them, I was pretty sure I will like the LCD3, but decided to check the HD800 as well just to see what the fuss is all about. The outcome was very different than anticipated: I fell in love with the HD800 sound and the LCD3 was in comparison uderwhelming. Add to that comfort issues and price difference and you'll understand why I'm hanging out here and not in the LCD3 thread


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





sko0bydoo said:


> Interesting, I have the WA6SE, which drives the HD800 beautifully.  I am looking for a future upgrade to a WA5LE.  Now you say that they may sound the "same" makes me rethink about buying another Woo.  What are alternatives to the Woo lines, say in the money range of the WA5LE?


 
  Honestly for the price the WA5 is priced at, it is a joke for the sound performance it offers. Though the amp sounds more solid state then being of a warmer tube sound sig. Majority of the Woo amp's sound similar in ways to another. There's a saying among few experienced users more so than myself: "Once you heard a Woo, you've heard them all".
   
  Well regarded amps for around the same price would be the EC and DNA lineup etc.


----------



## EasySounds

Hey guys,
   
  So I just realised that the huge box that the HD 800 came with contained nothing except the headphones+cables (and styrofoam and lush black velvety cloth over a HD 800 impression).

 What would you all recommend as a suitable carrying case for the HD 800s? (e.g. soft v hard etc)
   
  Thanks.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





negura said:


> but what would you folks choose between the LCD-3s and HD800s if you could only have one headphone? And no you cannot answer Stax.


 
   
  HE-6
  HD800
  LCD-3
   
  For me.


----------



## Solude

After years of Audeze cans and not preferring the HD800, I finally have a rig where the HD800 shines and in that rig the Audeze cans just aren't as good.  Mud in comparison to the HD800 on this rig while on the others rigs I had the HD800 was distant and lifeless.


----------



## Solude

After years of Audeze cans and not preferring the HD800, I finally have a rig where the HD800 shines and in that rig the Audeze cans just aren't as good.  Mud in comparison to the HD800 on this rig while on the others rigs I had the HD800 was distant and lifeless.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





solude said:


> After years of Audeze cans and not preferring the HD800, I finally have a rig where the HD800 shines and in that rig the Audeze cans just aren't as good.  Mud in comparison to the HD800 on this rig while on the others rigs I had the HD800 was distant and lifeless.


 
  You have gone back and forth many times.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *PleasantSou**nds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My family thinks I'm nuts as it is...


 
   
  That's why we all hang out here!


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





preproman said:


> HE-6
> HD800
> LCD-3
> 
> For me.


 
  Looks like you got all your bases covered there  I think HD800/HE6 is as far as I go unless I go into Stax. There really isn't much more I want other than maybe getting a better amp in the future but the Mjolnir is pretty good with the HD800 as it is so not sure about that yet but I will wait and see how the Schiit amp fares when it comes out.
   
  You ever going to venture into Stax?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> Looks like you got all your bases covered there  I think HD800/HE6 is as far as I go unless I go into Stax. There really isn't much more I want other than maybe getting a better amp in the future but the Mjolnir is pretty good with the HD800 as it is so not sure about that yet but I will wait and see how the Schiit amp fares when it comes out.
> 
> You ever going to venture into Stax?


 
   
  Yeah the 009s are on my radar. 
   
  Didn't like the Mjolnir with the HD800s so much.  However, I loved it with the LCDs..  I'm waiting on the Schiit Statement amp as well.  I'm hoping it sounds just as good with the LCDs as the Mjolnir.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





solude said:


> After years of Audeze cans and not preferring the HD800, I finally have a rig where the HD800 shines and in that rig the Audeze cans just aren't as good.  Mud in comparison to the HD800 on this rig while on the others rigs I had the HD800 was distant and lifeless.


 
   
  On the setup in my signature the HD800s sound really engaging and musical with plenty of punch. The AP2 I have very recently plugged into the ear food chain does wonders for the musicality. It's no easy going for the LCD-3s to convince me. But as LCD-3s are still somewhat fresh on the rack, I will reserve judgement for a few weeks.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





defqon said:


> You have gone back and forth many times.


 
   
  I've brought in the HD800 a few times but always had the Audeze already in house and always sold the HD800 soon after getting them, while the LCD-2 Rev1, Rev2 or LCD-3 stayed put.  This time is was a no contest... HD800 by a landslide.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





solude said:


> I've brought in the HD800 a few times but always had the Audeze already in house and always sold the HD800 soon after getting them, while the LCD-2 Rev1, Rev2 or LCD-3 stayed put.  This time is was a no contest... HD800 by a landslide.


 
   
  Very interesting how this came along over the years. Could there be any relation with the downstream gear used to power the HD800 evolving in the last couple of years?
  I am personally finding the HD800s scale tremendously.


----------



## Solude

Definitely gear.  The constant to getting great results from the HD800 seems to be BJT output devices.  Others have a fondness for tubes with the HD800 but since I never had a pure tube amp with them... can't say for myself.  Will add that the current rig is also the best I've ever heard the Audeze line up so it's not a matter of being tuned for the HD800.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





solude said:


> Definitely gear.  The constant to getting great results from the HD800 seems to be BJT output devices.  Others have a fondness for tubes with the HD800 but since I never had a pure tube amp with them... can't say for myself.  Will add that the current rig is also the best I've ever heard the Audeze line up so it's not a matter of being tuned for the HD800.


 
   
  I shall find that soon for myself, as soon as a few weeks going by as I've ordered the new Taboo MK3. That said, I am extremely pleased with the Conductor with all my headphones, but I have a feelings there's better too, as this hobby goes.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

negura said:


> Glad you're enjoying it. It will settle even more. What has recently improved my experience even further is using a badass copper cable with the HD800s. Adds a bit of musicality, body, detail, extension and a hint of warmth.
> 
> On a different note:
> I have been asked this question by a friend and I am struggling to decide whether overall I prefer the LCD-3s to the HD800s or the other way around. Obviously asking this here is going to get a slightly biased answer, but what would you folks choose between the LCD-3s and HD800s if you could only have one headphone? And no you cannot answer Stax.




I have both the LCD-3's and the HD800's and I would really hate to have to choose one over the other as I love them both. I use a few different amps, and I find that tube rolling, for me, provides the solution to getting excellent results from each. 

Sorry that this does not really address your question, but I would give up any other headphones I own without a second thought before parting with either the LCD-3's or the HD800's.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





solude said:


> I've brought in the HD800 a few times but always had the Audeze already in house and always sold the HD800 soon after getting them, while the LCD-2 Rev1, Rev2 or LCD-3 stayed put.  This time is was a no contest... HD800 by a landslide.


 
   
  Solude, correct me if I'm wrong, but did you have the GS-X with the LCD-3s? I love the HD800s, but I'd still take the LCD-3s over them. That said, barely any of my dynamics get much listening with my SR-009s in house.


----------



## Solude

Nope had the LCD-2 this time around.  Was always something about the LCD-3 I didn't like.  If I had to put a finger on it, it's probably the increase in dB from 1-2KHz compared to every other modern flagship.  Pure guess but it wasn't lack of trying, I just prefer the LCD-2 sound even if it does come at the cost of staging.  And the LCD-3 soft pads really were terrible on my huge head. They compressed right to the wood within weeks.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





solude said:


> Nope had the LCD-2 this time around.  Was always something about the LCD-3 I didn't like.  If I had to put a finger on it, it's probably the increase in dB from 1-2KHz compared to every other modern flagship.  Pure guess but it wasn't lack of trying, I just prefer the LCD-2 sound even if it does come at the cost of staging.  And the LCD-3 soft pads really were terrible on my huge head. They compressed right to the wood within weeks.


 
  My pads are original since they were released and are holding up pretty well. I guess my point is withe the GS-X, I find the differences between the HD-800s and LCD-3s only a matter of taste (and mine is for the latter). I'll say this, the GS-X bettered the more expensive Liquid Fire. Price to performance wise its a heck on an amp!
   
  And you already know how I feel about the LCD-2s...great cans, but can't keep up with the LCD-3s and HD-800s.


----------



## tjkurita

I just got a pair of HD800s.  These are very serious headphones!  What amazing resolution!  These are the least fatiguing headphones I have ever heard, besides the O2.  Of course, the O2 was fatiguing because of it's sheer weight and airbag-like ear pads.  These HD800 are light as a feather and very comfortable.  I am using a custom made 300B amp.  I compared my EMM Labs DCC2 running into my 300B to a HRT Music Streamer II+ into an SR71.  HD800 sounds great through both!  It changes a lot, of course.  The tube amp EMM combo makes the SR71/HRT sound like an iPod.  But that's not the point.  The point is, these headphones sound great through either one.  I am really, really, amazed at the resolution.  The resolution is O2-like.  But with the dynamic impact and range of, well, a dynamic headphone. 
   
  I have only just started listening but I wanted to post my initial impression, which is one of RESOLUTION and lack of fatigue/ease of listening.  I LOVE these headphones.


----------



## tjkurita

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Honestly for the price the WA5 is priced at, it is a joke for the sound performance it offers. Though the amp sounds more solid state then being of a warmer tube sound sig. Majority of the Woo amp's sound similar in ways to another. There's a saying among few experienced users more so than myself: "Once you heard a Woo, you've heard them all".
> 
> Well regarded amps for around the same price would be the EC and DNA lineup etc.


 

 How much have you listened to the WA5?


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





skeptic said:


> edit: here is the thread you want to read to cut to the chase, including the above-referenced comments from purrin and other veterans: http://www.head-fi.org/t/643740/team-hd800-challenge/0_30#post_9007457


 
   
  Thanks, *skeptic,* *DefQon*, and *Third_Eye*,  I'll look into your tube amp recommendations for the HD800s.  Everyone is entitled for an opinion...but it's best for me to do some auditions before cough-up some pretty money.


----------



## TooPoor

Every once in awhile I like to come into this thread and ask stupid questions because I can't fight the urge to continually upgrade my gear. So here goes....
   
   Where's my weak link (in your opinion)? I'm enjoying the heck out of my present setup, but still feel like it should sound better for the money I've put into it. Part of me thinks it's the V200 and that I could do better in the $1k amp range. Lately, I feel as though the V-Link is adding some harshness, but I'm hardly one to be overly verbose when it comes to describing what I hear so 'harshness' is about as deep as I go. Let's hear it!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

I have v link 96k and dl iii and works great


----------



## TooPoor

Oh I agree. I'm just being dumb/bored. I really like the PS DLIII. My doubts lie with the V200. But, by all other reviews, it should be perfect for me; smooth, laid back(for a SS), with good bass. For me, right now, I'm really looking for bass quality and impact. I'm just looking for something a bit smoother (?). But mostly, I'm being dumb/bored.


----------



## ULUL

This query is probably 'unworthy' of this thread given the caliber of the HD800...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  But, I wonder if any of you would consider the the Bottlehead Crack w. Speedball upgrade to be appropriate for the HD800.  Yes, I know there are much better tube amps out there but is the crack amp considered adequate for the system to be musical.  I've heard the HD800 fairly extensively and really enjoy the soundstage and am thinking about possibly hunting for a preowned unit and then coupling it with the Crack.  Or if this is inadvisable, love to hear that too.
   
  Thanks,
  UL


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Oh I agree. I'm just being dumb/bored. I really like the PS DLIII. My doubts lie with the V200. But, by all other reviews, it should be perfect for me; smooth, laid back(for a SS), with good bass. For me, right now, I'm really looking for bass quality and impact. I'm just looking for something a bit smoother (?). But mostly, I'm being dumb/bored.


 
   
  i use the WA2 when i want a really smooth sound out of the HD 800s, makes them more musical and forgiving. bass is pretty good. obviously its not as tight and the details aren't as crisp as SS, but its very musical with great tonality.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





tjkurita said:


> I just got a pair of HD800s.  These are very serious headphones!  What amazing resolution!  These are the least fatiguing headphones I have ever heard, besides the O2.  Of course, the O2 was fatiguing because of it's sheer weight and airbag-like ear pads.  These HD800 are light as a feather and very comfortable.  I am using a custom made 300B amp.  I compared my EMM Labs DCC2 running into my 300B to a HRT Music Streamer II+ into an SR71.  HD800 sounds great through both!  It changes a lot, of course.  The tube amp EMM combo makes the SR71/HRT sound like an iPod.  But that's not the point.  The point is, these headphones sound great through either one.  I am really, really, amazed at the resolution.  The resolution is O2-like.  But with the dynamic impact and range of, well, a dynamic headphone.
> 
> I have only just started listening but I wanted to post my initial impression, *which is one of RESOLUTION and lack of fatigue/ease of listening*.  I LOVE these headphones.


 
   
  Thats how I find them, had them a few months now with my collection of mid-price gear and they sound great out of everything. Always highly detailed and resolving but never fatiguing! 
   
  Quote: 





toopoor said:


> Every once in awhile I like to come into this thread and ask stupid questions because I can't fight the urge to continually upgrade my gear. So here goes....
> 
> Where's my weak link (in your opinion)? I'm enjoying the heck out of my present setup, but still feel like it should sound better for the money I've put into it. Part of me thinks it's the V200 and that I could do better in the $1k amp range. Lately, *I feel as though the V-Link is adding some harshness*, but I'm hardly one to be overly verbose when it comes to describing what I hear so 'harshness' is about as deep as I go. Let's hear it!


 
  I'd be very surprised if the V-Link is adding anything to the sound. If its doing its job then you shouldn't be getting any jitter, but that's all. 
  I haven't heard the V200 but have read many times that it is on the warmer side of neutral so maybe try a different Dac? Or as Dubstep girl recommends, maybe go down the tube route if you want more warmth/smoothness.
   
  Also, you'd be surprised what a change in cables can make with a headphone as transparent as the HD800. I've swapped out my solid silver interconnects for some Van den hul's and the subtle change in smoothness at the top is noticeable and most welcome.


----------



## skeptic

ulul said:


> This query is probably 'unworthy' of this thread given the caliber of the HD800...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Listening to that very combo (with a couple of further beneficial but nonessential DIY mods) right now, with a big smile on my face. So yes not a bad question at all - it is a very nice pairing  

If you would like further confirmation, you will find the same sentiment echoed in the crack thread, on inner fidelity, on the audiophiliac, on headphonia, on page 2 or 3 of the team HD800 amp thread I linked above, and in abundance on the bh forums.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





tjkurita said:


> How much have you listened to the WA5?


 
  I had all the Woo amp's at mine and my mates (serious audio nut) where we did the comparison's but I'm guessing at least 3-4 hours of total listening time on it during the week the amp's stayed put in the house. It's a good amp, but just not worth the asking price. If I ever had to give an award to Jack from Woo Audio it would be the extremely professional build quality on his amps.
   
  On a side note, one amp that really stood out with HD800's with classical music was when I first auditioned the Phonitor balanced xlr to some Denon looking cd transport (not sure) at Jabens here. I've mentioned it before but it took me a good 2 minutes to notice a very good depth and layering to the Marantz demo cd that I was listening to. Above any b22 configuration I have heard which was my baseline amp beforehand. Although the b22 is a good amp, there is better out there now, the b22 + HD800 combo has been long dethroned as one of the synergistic combos. I was thinking people are spewing crap about a modded M-Stage sounding very good with the HD800's, my goodness when I heard it, talk about a bang for buck amp.


----------



## MelvinV

I have a serious problem with my HD 800s. The connector for the left channel makes a ****load of noise and rops randomly. If I move my head left to right fast I can hear a really bad noise even when no music is playing. The amplifier does need to be on though (makes a lot of sense).
  I tried replugging the cables but it just doesn't work.
   
  My headphones are ~9 months old and I handle them with extreme care. I've never even broke a $5 mouse, I just replaced it because it was ****ty. There is not a single scratch of the headphones themself.
   
  What should I do with this, is there any easy fix for this or do I really have to send these back to Sennheiser to let them repair it?
  I'm so disappointed with this, if even a $5 mouse is more durable than these headphones something must be very wrong!
  I can also twist the connectors a little bit I heard that's normal. They don't feel very secure though because they do move a bit when pulling them up and down (with a little bit of force). I had never removed the cable before this incident.
   
  Is there a trick to fixing this?


----------



## negura

Quote: 





melvinv said:


> I have a serious problem with my HD 800s. The connector for the left channel makes a ****load of noise and rops randomly. If I move my head left to right fast I can hear a really bad noise even when no music is playing. The amplifier does need to be on though (makes a lot of sense).
> I tried replugging the cables but it just doesn't work.
> 
> My headphones are ~9 months old and I handle them with extreme care. I've never even broke a $5 mouse, I just replaced it because it was ****ty. There is not a single scratch of the headphones themself.
> ...


 
   
  Does this still happen if you swap your left and right connectors into the headphone? If it does but it moves to the other channel, it's the cable.


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





negura said:


> Does this still happen if you swap your left and right connectors into the headphone? If it does but it moves to the other channel, it's the cable.


 
  I just did that and it does fix the issue, but I'm not gonna put L into R and R into L. Looks like the internal connector is just messed up.
  And I chipped off a part of the paint on the right earcup because the cable is so hard to remove, the connector hit the HD 800 itself.
   
  Now the paint condition is not perfect anymore, I wonder how Sennheiser will handle that because "it's just a cosmetic thing".
  Hopefully they'll be kind enough to fix up the paint. It was in perfect condition prior to this nonsense but now it isn't perfect anymore and I'm a guy that has to have everything perfect.
   
  Thanks for your reply though, I appriciate it.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





melvinv said:


> I just did that and it does fix the issue, but I'm not gonna put L into R and R into L. Looks like the internal connector is just messed up.
> And I chipped off a part of the paint on the right earcup because the cable is so hard to remove, the connector hit the HD 800 itself.
> 
> Now the paint condition is not perfect anymore, I wonder how Sennheiser will handle that because "it's just a cosmetic thing".
> ...


 
  Yeah have a word with Sennheiser and explain what happened. I'm sure it will all be covered with the 2 year warranty


----------



## negura

Quote: 





melvinv said:


> I just did that and it does fix the issue, but I'm not gonna put L into R and R into L. Looks like the internal connector is just messed up.
> And I chipped off a part of the paint on the right earcup because the cable is so hard to remove, the connector hit the HD 800 itself.
> 
> Now the paint condition is not perfect anymore, I wonder how Sennheiser will handle that because "it's just a cosmetic thing".
> ...


 
   
  Sorry to hear. It may be a problem with the combination of cable connector and headphone connector on that side...  As much as I love my HD800s sometimes with these headphones the paint chips even for no apparent reason. The connectors are not the best system I've seen either. But when I listen to them, it more than makes up for any shortcomings. 
   
  I wonder if Sennheiser can sort out the paint issues or if folks here know of any other fixes for the paint. A while ago someone was selling some DIY paint on eBay Germany, but it's not longer available.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





melvinv said:


> I just did that and it does fix the issue, but I'm not gonna put L into R and R into L. Looks like the internal connector is just messed up.
> And I chipped off a part of the paint on the right earcup because the cable is so hard to remove, the connector hit the HD 800 itself.
> 
> Now the paint condition is not perfect anymore, I wonder how Sennheiser will handle that because "it's just a cosmetic thing".
> ...


 
   
  tee hee


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> tee hee


 

 I'm not a native speaker, I tend to type way too fast and spelling correction doesn't work on these forums for some magical reason.
  It should've been "appreciate", happy now?
  But seriously, how off-topic can you get? Haha.
   
  Edit: and where did your punctuation go? And where is that capital letter?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> tee hee


 
  Naughty


----------



## BournePerfect

Just trYing to make yu not feel like an outSiDeR. 
   
  -Daniel


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Just trYing to make yu not feel like an outSiDeR.
> 
> -Daniel


 

 I don't get it, but... thanks? I guess. Lol.


----------



## dleblanc343

melvinv said:


> I just did that and it does fix the issue, but I'm not gonna put L into R and R into L. Looks like the internal connector is just messed up.
> And I chipped off a part of the paint on the right earcup because the cable is so hard to remove, the connector hit the HD 800 itself.
> 
> Now the paint condition is not perfect anymore, I wonder how Sennheiser will handle that because "it's just a cosmetic thing".
> ...




I did the same thing while removing the connector, I was swearing likr a mad man because I too am OCD with my gear. Everything is pristine except that knick. Luckily i kind of fixed it


negura said:


> I wonder if Sennheiser can sort out the paint issues or if folks here know of any other fixes for the paint. A while ago someone was selling some DIY paint on eBay Germany, but it's not longer available.



I used a silver sharpie and carefully touched it up and now it's barely noticeable. I also used a special paint stripper to retouch the finish of the sharpie paint so it blends in with the stock paint job, so it's almost perfect


----------



## negura

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> I did the same thing while removing the connector, I was swearing likr a mad man because I too am OCD with my gear. Everything is pristine except that knick. Luckily i kind of fixed it
> I used a silver sharpie and carefully touched it up and now it's barely noticeable. I also used a special paint stripper to retouch the finish of the sharpie paint so it blends in with the stock paint job, so it's almost perfect


 
   
  The other thing that happens when removing the connectors and it's even worse is if the connector hits the silver mesh thingie. That mesh will then bend and scratch quite badly. I've seen it live, luckily not on my headphones and it's not pretty. I think everyone is a little OCD with gear costing in excess of a thousand name your currency...
  This is also where Audeze walks all over the HD800s. They are built like a tank and those mini XLRs are a pleasure to use.
   
  Oh yeah this is the appreciation thread ... I still think on the right gear the sound is pure magic.


----------



## Maxvla

Except when your Audeze headphones crack or a driver blows. Built like a tank, right? The only build quality issues someone can come up with on the Senns is delicate paint and stiff jacks? Excuse me if I believe the opposite regarding tank like quality.


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





negura said:


> The other thing that happens when removing the connectors and it's even worse is if the connector hits the silver mesh thingie. That mesh will then bend and scratch quite badly. I've seen it live, luckily not on my headphones and it's not pretty. I think everyone is a little OCD with gear costing in excess of a thousand name your currency...
> This is also where Audeze walks all over the HD800s. They are built like a tank and those mini XLRs are a pleasure to use.
> 
> Oh yeah this is the appreciation thread ... I still think on the right gear the sound is pure magic.


 

 Yeah the stupid paint is way too delicate, why couldn't they have used better quality paint?
  I just love the way the HD800s sound and they're super comfortable as well, but **** these custom connectors. Even a 3,5mm jack is more durable than this piece of crap.
  I love how my old headsets and headphones that were €20 cheap-ass plastics toys never broke but the HD800 does break... (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
   
  Also, I'm just gonna keep continue using them even with this loose socket. Idk if it's good for the driver to have a ****ty connection but I don't care as they're going back to the factory for stupid warranty anyway.


----------



## MorbidToaster

+1. The numerous issues are the reason I didn't even consider the LCD-3 even when I was in the 'ortho honeymoon' phase.
   
  I keep getting backlash when I mention build quality and hear 'it's fixed', but it always seems to come close post wise to someone else with a problem.
   
  Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Except when your Audeze headphones crack or a driver blows. Built like a tank, right? The only build quality issues someone can come up with on the Senns is delicate paint and stiff jacks? Excuse me if I believe the opposite regarding tank like quality.


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> +1. The numerous issues are the reason I didn't even consider the LCD-3 even when I was in the 'ortho honeymoon' phase.
> 
> I keep getting backlash when I mention build quality and hear 'it's fixed', but it always seems to come close post wise to someone else with a problem.


 
  I've heard of their comfort issues, and I'm wearing headphones for hours in a row every single day. I just need something very comfortable.
  On top of that there is no place to audition them in the Netherlands. And it looked like I would be paying for fancy wood and real leather which does need to be threated as well. I like Beyer's gear better because it just feels a lot more durable. But the HD 800s just sound better imo. First world problems...


----------



## Solude

People have to be seriously high if they think the Audeze or HiFiMAN cans have the same build quality as Sennheiser.   They just aren't comparable.  As for the paint, I've yet to chip a Senn, but the likely culprit is EU environmental laws and what ingredients are allowed.


----------



## MorbidToaster

solude said:


> People have to be seriously high if they think the Audeze or HiFiMAN cans have the same build quality as Sennheiser.   They just aren't comparable.  As for the paint, I've yet to chip a Senn, but the likely culprit is EU environmental laws and what ingredients are allowed.




I think I remember use agreeing...twice, Solude.


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





solude said:


> People have to be seriously high if they think the Audeze or HiFiMAN cans have the same build quality as Sennheiser.   They just aren't comparable.  As for the paint, I've yet to chip a Senn, but the likely culprit is EU environmental laws and what ingredients are allowed.


 

 Now that you mention it, probably.
  The EU is so pu**y when it comes to chemicals and stuff. If I get ill when I lick my HD 800s because of "dangerous" paint then it's my problem because I'm licking headphones. It doesn't really matter as long as it's not lead paint. If only the EU would take care of some actual problems, instead of wasting tax money on silly things like trying to ban porn on the web and banning "dangerous" paint.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Except when your Audeze headphones crack or a driver blows. Built like a tank, right? The only build quality issues someone can come up with on the Senns is delicate paint and stiff jacks? Excuse me if I believe the opposite regarding tank like quality.


 
   
  The cable is awful too... this is coming from Sennheiser engineers off the record. It's quite a common support issue to them that the stock cable snaps where the plugs meet the rubber part.
   
  I've yet to have any build problems with any of my Audeze headphones and I don't treat them like eggs as I do with my HD800s. I am aware there have been various issues in the past, but at least they've taken steps and addressed them?
   
  I love my HD800s, but you have to be in serious denial that there are no issues. What steps is Sennheiser taking regarding the paint issue, the cable issue or the fact that the connectors are so damn impossible and you risk headphone damage changing cables?


----------



## DefQon

The only bad thing about Sennheiser is easy paint chips. Other than that, sublime build quality.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

Quote: 





negura said:


> The cable is awful too... this is coming from Sennheiser engineers off the record. It's quite a common support issue to them that the stock cable snaps where the plugs meet the rubber part.
> 
> I've yet to have any build problems with any of my Audeze headphones and I don't treat them like eggs as I do with my HD800s. I am aware there have been a lot of various issues in the past, but at least they've taken steps and addressed them?
> 
> I love my HD800s, but you have to be in serious denial that there are no issues. What steps is Sennheiser taking regarding the paint issue or the fact that the connectors are so damn impossible and you risk headphone damage changing cables?


 
   
  The fact that Sennheiser hasn't done anything about the paint or the cable until now is kind of disturbing...indeed


----------



## negura

Quote: 





solude said:


> People have to be seriously high if they think the Audeze or HiFiMAN cans have the same build quality as Sennheiser.   They just aren't comparable.  As for the paint, I've yet to chip a Senn, but the likely culprit is EU environmental laws and what ingredients are allowed.


 
   
  Seriously, a headphone costing well in excess of a thousand name your currency, can't have a proper paint job solution that abides the law?
   
  I realize it's pop culture to bash Audeze, but they came a long way while providing great support to folks having issues, have taken the right steps, and I think they are in a very good position right now. I am talking the present, not the past. And comparing today's HD800 and today's Audeze. I could expand the assertion to other cans in the Sennheiser range, notorious for paint and driver issues: Hello HD600s, HD650s?
   
  That said, this is not to take away from any of the qualities of the HD800s, but the next time one has to plan ahead how pick them up or put them down veeeery carefully, has to think about how to position their fingers on them so not to touch any squishy parts, or sweat before changing a cable, remember to stop reading out of a Sennheiser leaflet.


----------



## Maxvla

negura said:


> The cable is awful too... this is coming from Sennheiser engineers off the record. It's quite a common support issue to them that the stock cable snaps where the plugs meet the rubber part.
> 
> I've yet to have any build problems with any of my Audeze headphones and I don't treat them like eggs as I do with my HD800s. I am aware there have been various issues in the past, but at least they've taken steps and addressed them?
> 
> I love my HD800s, but you have to be in serious denial that there are no issues. What steps is Sennheiser taking regarding the paint issue, the cable issue or the fact that the connectors are so damn impossible and you risk headphone damage changing cables?



Link me to a single HD800 driver failure, or a broken frame, or something worthy of getting as breathlessly irate as you seem to be. While it isn't great that the paint is not the best, there is an alternative (Colorware) at the same retail price with tougher paint that you get to customize. As for the stiff connectors that isn't a common issue, but isn't rare either. Just be careful? As for the cable, I don't even use the included cable. It is too long and isn't balanced.

People are still getting Audeze headphones they can't use when the driver blows or the frame cracks at the connection to the headband. Thats a little worse than some dings.


----------



## negura

Edit: Nevermind, I think my point was made in the posting(s) above. 
   
  I am glad we're all enjoying the HD800s for how they sound.


----------



## Maxvla

negura said:


> Thanks for playing this down. It's of course in our best interest as consumers... As for Colorware, I hope it's well clear that most of the planet and consumer base nowadays lives outside the US.



You started it by calling Audeze build quality tank like. You do realize what a tank is and does, and ends up looking like right? They end up looking pretty beat up, but it keeps on going. Audeze may get the varnish or leather quality right, but they are more lemon than tank. The one that keeps going despite physical wear? The HD800.

You could probably get Colorwares through a exporting service similar to PriceJapan, etc if they only sell to USA.


----------



## DefQon

If only colorware was still offering the paint service to pre-existing HD800 owners.


----------



## panshaoze

still looking forward to it


----------



## technica18

Hey guys how do you tell a factory new HD800 from a used one? Is the outside box sealed with shrinkwrap or a piece of tape on the opening? Is the cable attached to the headphones? Any other signs that one can use to differentiate a new one from a used one?


----------



## Solude

Serial number.  Current new prod should be 21000+ serial number.


----------



## technica18

solude said:


> Serial number.  Current new prod should be 21000+ serial number.




I thought of that but if it's a recent return item then the serial number can be over 21000. Anything else I can look for?


----------



## bearFNF

No tape on box, cable is connected.  Might be a indication when you go to register it with Sennheiser.
   
  Maybe try a reputable vendor so there is no doubt?


----------



## DefQon

Smell the pads and headband. If it smells funky, then it's worn. If it smell likes fresh rubber then its new.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

questionable build quality on hd 800. the cable definitely has snapped on me once where the rubber/plug connect. the headphones fell a feet or 2
   
  also, it feels like the hd 800 can crack/snap if dropped. when i had hd 650s, i used to drop them at least once or twice a day, and they always where ok, no paint chips except in that headband area where they usually get them. im scared to drop hd 800, they feel like they would break where the cups move or something.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> questionable build quality on hd 800. the cable definitely has snapped on me once where the rubber/plug connect. the headphones fell a feet or 2
> 
> also, it feels like the hd 800 can crack/snap if dropped. when i had hd 650s, i used to drop them at least once or twice a day, and they always where ok, no paint chips except in that headband area where they usually get them. im scared to drop hd 800, they feel like they would break where the cups move or something.


 
  Sadly I've dropped my old HD800's before, although it hit carpet and the headband area only. The headband foam cover unclipped itself. I don't think the HD800's would snap if dropped on a fragile angle/part of the headphone onto a hard surface but a definite large paint chip/damage to the plastic surface is most probable.


----------



## Maxvla

dubstep girl said:


> questionable build quality on hd 800. the cable definitely has snapped on me once where the rubber/plug connect. the headphones fell a feet or 2
> 
> also, it feels like the hd 800 can crack/snap if dropped. when i had hd 650s, i used to drop them at least once or twice a day, and they always where ok, no paint chips except in that headband area where they usually get them. im scared to drop hd 800, they feel like they would break where the cups move or something.



What does a cable snapping have to do with headphones falling a foot or two?

Anything can be forced to break, I thought we were talking about normal usage where 100% of the wear comes from handling and setting on the head, not dropping it once or twice a day. You guys do realize we are using fine instruments, right? They are made to withstand handling and produce top tier sound quality. If you want something you can throw through a wall, you need to be looking at pro/DJ stuff where sound quality is down the list under durability and price. You don't give a child who would be prone to dropping things a stradivarius, you give them a cheap thick durable german violin that doesn't sound so good, but can take the hits and is easily replaceable.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> What does a cable snapping have to do with headphones falling a foot or two?
> 
> Anything can be forced to break, I thought we were talking about normal usage where 100% of the wear comes from handling and setting on the head, not dropping it once or twice a day. You guys do realize we are using fine instruments, right? They are made to withstand handling and produce top tier sound quality. If you want something you can throw through a wall, you need to be looking at pro/DJ stuff where sound quality is down the list under durability and price. You don't give a child who would be prone to dropping things a stradivarius, you give them a cheap thick durable german violin that doesn't sound so good, but can take the hits and is easily replaceable.


 
  YOU TOLD US....... SIR!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah well **** happens and **** breaks....
   
  any headphone should be able to withstand handling especially for the prices we pay. and they shouldn't just break on you if you accidentally drop them. 
   
   
  right now if i dropped my headphones by accident, this is what i feel would happen.
   
  hd 800s would shatter and break where the cups move.
  lcd-2's wood would crack
  he-500's cheap plastic would crack/connector would break.
  T1's frame would be bent up, the metal on the frame isn't as solid as one might think.
   
  all my old mid-fi's feel more durable than these flagships and thats messed up. pro 900, hd 650, k701, sr325, rs1, even my dt 990s all felt much more sturdy and durable.


----------



## technica18

bearfnf said:


> No tape on box, cable is connected.  Might be a indication when you go to register it with Sennheiser.
> 
> Maybe try a reputable vendor so there is no doubt?




They are a highly rated Amazon marketplace seller but I'm always cautious cause I've been bitten before.


----------



## silversurfer616

If people are so afraid of "falling Sennheisers",why don't they include it in their household insurance.
  My serial number is in the 800 and so they look like;....as I am not anal about those things, I am actually proud that they look "used" and "lived In"!The only thing I did was replacing pads and headband.
  And they sound stunning!


----------



## DefQon

The old DT48/DT880's are tank, I've thrown one at the wall before and only the grill came off haha. Think it did more damage to the wall than the headphone itself.


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Link me to a single HD800 driver failure, or a broken frame, or something worthy of getting as breathlessly irate as you seem to be. While it isn't great that the paint is not the best, there is an alternative (Colorware) at the same retail price with tougher paint that you get to customize. As for the stiff connectors that isn't a common issue, but isn't rare either. Just be careful? As for the cable, I don't even use the included cable. It is too long and isn't balanced.
> 
> People are still getting Audeze headphones they can't use when the driver blows or the frame cracks at the connection to the headband. Thats a little worse than some dings.


 
  The connectors inside of the headphone stopped working properly over here, after only ~9 months for no apparent reason. I didn't drop them once, I didn't got the cable stuck once, I never removed the cable prior to this and when I did remove the cable to see is re-insterting would help the paint chipped on both sides. Did I buy Beats Pros that hurts its own cable when you use the "DJ" swing feature? They'd better change their name to Beats by Dr. Chinaheiser.
  Quote: 





technica18 said:


> Hey guys how do you tell a factory new HD800 from a used one? Is the outside box sealed with shrinkwrap or a piece of tape on the opening? Is the cable attached to the headphones? Any other signs that one can use to differentiate a new one from a used one?


 
  Look for paint chips and scratches, the paint is so fragile that a second hand will almost always have a scratch or a few. The cable is atached to the headphones AFAIK and there is a piece of foam laying on top of the cable part. I also think that the cable came in some bubble wrap but thay may not be true. There was this round piece of tape/plastic/seal at the top of the box.
   
  Also, did anyone have to ship their HD 800s back to Germany for warranty? How long does it take before you get them back? I have no other headphones and I don't have any speakers (HD 800s are my speakers) .


----------



## hekeli

Quote: 





technica18 said:


> Hey guys how do you tell a factory new HD800 from a used one? Is the outside box sealed with shrinkwrap or a piece of tape on the opening? Is the cable attached to the headphones? Any other signs that one can use to differentiate a new one from a used one?


 

 Well for this the bazillion HD800 unboxing videos in Youtube might be useful..


----------



## Taliesin

I cant decide what amp to get for the hd800. I live in the UK so some amps are harder to get and will have really expensive shipping. I've looked at the musical fidelity m1HPA, burson soloist sl, Woo audio WA2 or WA7 or the Schiit Lyr or Mjolnir. Are any of these good for the hd800, I would prefere it if the amp warmed up the hd800 a bit and added a bit of bass. Anyone in the UK know a good amp available easily in the uk that works well with the hd800, preferably under £800.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> I cant decide what amp to get for the hd800. I live in the UK so some amps are harder to get and will have really expensive shipping. I've looked at the musical fidelity m1HPA, burson soloist sl, Woo audio WA2 or WA7 or the Schiit Lyr or Mjolnir. Are any of these good for the hd800, I would prefere it if the amp warmed up the hd800 a bit and added a bit of bass. Anyone in the UK know a good amp available easily in the uk that works well with the hd800, preferably under £800.


 
  The Soloist (not the SL - I've not heard that one) has great bass quality and punch. I don't think it's adding warmth, but it's at the same time very detailed and smooth. You may also consider Vioelectric V200 (from Thomann). That one mimics tubey sound, still great bass, some warmth and a bit of rolloff on the treble. It doesn't have the soundstage of the Soloist though.


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> I cant decide what amp to get for the hd800. I live in the UK so some amps are harder to get and will have really expensive shipping. I've looked at the musical fidelity m1HPA, burson soloist sl, Woo audio WA2 or WA7 or the Schiit Lyr or Mjolnir. Are any of these good for the hd800, I would prefere it if the amp warmed up the hd800 a bit and added a bit of bass. Anyone in the UK know a good amp available easily in the uk that works well with the hd800, preferably under £800.


 
  I can recommend The Violectric V200 which I also have, great amplifier. I know a dealer in Germany that does also ship to the UK, he can give you a "special" offer and it'll be well under £800.
  The amp is a tad warm like a tube amplifier but you don't have to mess around with tubes at all. If you decide on the V200 PM me and I'll give you the dealer's info if you want.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





negura said:


> The Soloist (not the SL - I've not heard that one) has great bass quality and punch. I don't think it's adding warmth, but it's at the same time very detailed and smooth. You may also consider Vioelectric V200 (from Thomann). That one mimics tubey sound, still great bass, some warmth and a bit of rolloff on the treble. It doesn't have the soundstage of the Soloist though.


 
   
  +! on Soloist  ... I can't believe the improvement I'm hearing in the Conductor in terms of extension, authority, sound stage, imaging after a week of hard use.  I HAVE finally found a negative aspect of the HD800 however ---  Where I used to enjoy the unique eccentricities of all my other phones, I now find them all lacking against the HD800   
   
  Maybe they'll get some of their luster back when the honeymoon period is over...


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> Maybe they'll get some of their luster back when the honeymoon period is over...


 
   
  Good luck with that.  The LCD-2/3 I had sounded best on the Soloist but once the HD800 arrived, they got dumped fast.  Zero interest in another can.  Might look into some more near field monitors but for cans... done.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> I cant decide what amp to get for the hd800. I live in the UK so some amps are harder to get and will have really expensive shipping. I've looked at the musical fidelity m1HPA, burson soloist sl, Woo audio WA2 or WA7 or the Schiit Lyr or Mjolnir. Are any of these good for the hd800, I would prefere it if the amp warmed up the hd800 a bit and added a bit of bass. Anyone in the UK know a good amp available easily in the uk that works well with the hd800, preferably under £800.


 
  Decware CSP2+ is fantastic with the HD800's.  www.decware.com


----------



## dleblanc343

solude said:


> Good luck with that.  The LCD-2/3 I had sounded best on the Soloist but once the HD800 arrived, they got dumped fast.  Zero interest in another can.  Might look into some more near field monitors but for cans... done.



You should definitely try out neumann KH 120, they're amazing monitors. Most linear sounding one on the market as far as I know which is what I wanted. ( ruler flat from 40hz to 20khz, literally).


----------



## third_eye

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> You should definitely try out neumann KH 120, they're amazing monitors. Most linear sounding one on the market as far as I know which is what I wanted. ( ruler flat from 40hz to 20khz, literally).


 

 +1, hands down the best monitors in the $1500 price bracket, IMO. I literally went through about 5 sets of competitors and this one was a clear cut above.


----------



## Solude

Above and beyond the Dynaudio BM6 MkII I already have despite similar price?


----------



## skeptic

dubstep girl said:


> yeah well **** happens and **** breaks....
> ....
> all my old mid-fi's feel more durable than these flagships and thats messed up. pro 900, hd 650, k701, sr325, rs1, even my dt 990s all felt much more sturdy and durable.




I would agree that my dt880s seem more robust than my hd800's, but that may just be the tradeoff for having flagship headphones that are made out of a newly patented composite that doesn't have the resonance issues of wood or metal cups. John Willet, a former sennheiser rep who used to participate in the old hd800 thread fairly regularly, used to post about this from time to time.

Also, I wouldn't say that i have any greater degree of confidence in the hd650 paint. The 650 thread is also full of complaints about chipping. That said, I do agree that it would be nice if all these headphones were more durable.


----------



## longbowbbs

I don't get all the chipping discussion. I throw my HD650's into the backpack all the time and they are not having any chipping trouble. Guess I got the experimental paint job...


----------



## third_eye

Quote: 





solude said:


> Above and beyond the Dynaudio BM6 MkII I already have despite similar price?


 

 If you value strict neutrality, then yes. Well worth an audition.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I don't get all the chipping discussion. I throw my HD650's into the backpack all the time and they are not having any chipping trouble. Guess I got the experimental paint job...


 
   
  The HD650 chipping is generally from over-stretching the headband.  The paint is reasonably resistant to abrasion but doesn't hold up to flex as well.  The HD800 seems to have the opposite problem where abrasion is the real issue.


----------



## longbowbbs

Makes sense JD...I tend to leave the HD800's on their rightly earned pedestal when I am not using them....


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> The HD650 chipping is generally from over-stretching the headband.  The paint is reasonably resistant to abrasion but doesn't hold up to flex as well.  The HD800 seems to have the opposite problem where abrasion is the real issue.


 

 You nailed it, wish HD800 paint was as durable as HD650.
  Sennheiser should really start selling touch up paint for HD800.


----------



## BournePerfect

Stop dropping your $1500 luxury items, people. Or buy some Ultrasones.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





andrew_wot said:


> You nailed it, wish HD800 paint was as durable as HD650.
> Sennheiser should really start selling touch up paint for HD800.


 
  its called oil base silver sharpie and if you mess it up use nail polish to take it off


----------



## BournePerfect

Loan me your nail polish, Frank. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





frank i said:


> its called oil base silver sharpie and if you mess it up *use nail polish to take it off*


 
  You a single man Frank...?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


 
   
   
It seems some folk have issues with chipping and some don't. Is there any pattern? For instance, are newer models showing less chipping perhaps? Has anyone in the 20xxx serial # have chips? 
   
Pure speculation. I haven't chipped mine yet but maybe its an eroding reaction that comes with age.


----------



## jazzerdave

lugbug1 said:


> You a single man Frank...?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I bought both my HD800 and HD650 "pre-chipped".I didn't care to much and saved some $$$.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> I bought both my HD800 and HD650 "pre-chipped".I didn't care to much and saved some $$$.


 
  Makes sense to me my friend. 
   
  Though I feel like I'm missing out... Might custom chip mine!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





frank i said:


> its called oil base silver sharpie and if you mess it up use nail polish to take it off


 
   
  oooh thats a good idea, i've used black sharpie before to cover up grill scratches on my grados, never though of silver.
   
  Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> I bought both my HD800 and HD650 "pre-chipped".I didn't care to much and saved some $$$.


 
   
  pre-chipped!! L0L!@!@!@!


----------



## palmfish

Wouldnt it be easy to paint a layer of clear enamel over the paint to help protect it? 

Mine are still perfect in spite of being transported to a couple meets. Im not rough with them but i dont baby them either. Im not worried about them getting a little patina eventually - it just means they are loved.


----------



## NightFlight

rawrster said:


> IIRC there was a sale a while back for the SA5k going for some price around that. However if the SA5k at going for $700 I would just save a bit more and buy a used HD800. They usually go in the 1k-1,1k range however that does assume that you have a good setup already for the HD800.




crutchfield.com has them refurbished for 1.1k. Same money + warranty. Don't quote me on that.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> You a single man Frank...?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Mine scratched, but it was because I sat them in a in a bag on top of my dac and amp while in the car. They slipped over the edge at a light and scrached a bit on the back because of that. At least it was after that I noticed they were lightly scratched down to the black plastic under the paint. I've been thinking silver sharpie to fix as well... I use black sharpie on cheap furniture all the time. Just mark and then rub it in to blend.


----------



## ULUL

YMMV but I got a refurb senn recently and it was not satisfactory - showed signs of significant use  and was not cleaned up sufficiently.  
   
  ULUL
  Quote: 





nightflight said:


> crutchfield.com has them refurbished for 1.1k. Same money + warranty. Don't quote me on that.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> yeah well **** happens and **** breaks....
> 
> any headphone should be able to withstand handling especially for the prices we pay. and they shouldn't just break on you if you accidentally drop them.
> 
> ...


 
   
  If you drop your stuff, you know the value. Materials which are acoustically correct are used in top tier products. Sound comes first.  If dropped your Stax, well... be prepared to cry.  While your right life does happen. But after a certain tier of product you are expected to be mature enough to own it.
   
  Part of it I think is in our backgrounds. If you grew up without someone to show you how to respect your own property, that could have a lot to do with it. Ever watch some people handle LPs or even CDs poorly? I've never touched the surface of an LP with a finger tip... after my brother showed me why it was a bad idea.  That, and they were his LPs, his rules. Same goes for CDs, you should never touch the surface. Don't bend the spine of your pocket books.... etc.
   
  My 4yr old mimics my care and handling of his CDs already.  I'm right proud of him.  So, I got him an iPad and he's learned to handle it with great care and responsibility. If these things break under his care, I know it won't be out of neglect.
   
  I just feel there is a certain level of care that is part of the entry fee on top tier items. That likely won't change.


----------



## BournePerfect

I've always learned to respect my own stuff because I've never owned a credit card.  Hard earned cash for everything. REALLY sucked when I laid down my brand new GSXR 600 with in the first month because of my own stupidity...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> No tape on box, cable is connected.  Might be a indication when you go to register it with Sennheiser.
> 
> Maybe try a reputable vendor so there is no doubt?


 

 Register it with who now? I tried, and I found absolutely no reference for this process. Nothing in the insert materials or website for this purpose.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Register it with who now? I tried, and I found absolutely no reference for this process. Nothing in the insert materials or website for this purpose.


 
http://en-uk.sennheiser.com/service-support/services/register-your-product
   
  Just follow the online process with your serial number and where you bought them from


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> http://en-uk.sennheiser.com/service-support/services/register-your-product
> 
> Just follow the online process with your serial number and where you bought them from


 
  Yep, that where I did it.  That is also how I got my FR graph.  They also have an email address for correction that comes in the confirmation email (services@sennheiser.com)
   
  This was also on that email:
  Important note: Please keep this e-mail carefully, because it confirms your
 claim for a warranty period of 2 years after date of purchase. We
 recommend to print it out and keep it with your proof of purchase.


----------



## magiccabbage

looks like there is a pair of hd800's going for less than 700 euro on the sale forum - madness!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> looks like there is a pair of hd800's going for less than 700 euro on the sale forum - madness!


 
  That is a very good price. Why selling pray tell?? oh, and are they chipped


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





ulul said:


> YMMV but I got a refurb senn recently and it was not satisfactory - showed signs of significant use  and was not cleaned up sufficiently.
> 
> ULUL


 
   
  Have you tried to return it and get a replacement (they have a great return policy!)?  I got my refurb. HD800 thru Crutchfield; excellent shape (no paint chip), looked like new.  I'm thinking get a second pair from them soon.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> That is a very good price. Why selling pray tell?? oh, and are they chipped


 
  no they look fine in the pics


----------



## NightFlight

lugbug1 said:


> http://en-uk.sennheiser.com/service-support/services/register-your-product
> 
> Just follow the online process with your serial number and where you bought them from




Done! Thanks! I could find no refrence to the link earlier. I had all but given up.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Sorry if that was asked before, but do you get certificate with chart in mail or just pdf via email. I got the latter not sure if the paper version is coming or not.


----------



## palmfish

andrew_wot said:


> Sorry if that was asked before, but do you get certificate with chart in mail or just pdf via email. I got the latter not sure if the paper version is coming or not.




I never received a .pdf via e-mail. Just the paper chart (took about a month to get it).


----------



## MickeyVee

I just spent the past few days going through this thread.  Like some, I dismissed the HD800 as lifeless and lacking in bass.  There was a HeadFi meet last week in Toronto and I had a chance to audition the HD800 through my Bifrost/Lyr.  I was totally blown away. Smooth as silk, great bass and sweet, sweet mids and highs. It just sounded right to me.
   
  I currently have the HD700 and HE500.  Believe it or not, there was more bass out of the HD700 but it was more controlled and tighter on the HD800.  They both just smoked the HE500 for bass.  After spending some time with the HD800, the treble peak on the HD700 became more  apparent and even in the short time I auditioned the HD800, I realized that this is where I want to go. After hearing the HD800, the HD700 are starting to grate on me.
   
  So, at this point, both my HD700 and HE500 are up for sale.  I'm thinking I may still want to keep the HE500 but in the end, I really think I'm a one headphone kind of guy. Plus, if I sell both, that should cover the cost of the HD800 and I come out even. I'll see how the sales go.
   
  Now, my current dilemma.  I was really pleased with the sound of the HD800 out of my Schiit stack. Running Amperex Orange Globes in the Lyr and also have the Amperex PQ amongst other tubes. I have the Bifrost Uber board coming in so that should ramp up my source for a while.  What I've read so far is that a lot of people are not so impressed with the HD800 and the Bifrost/Lyr.  For the foreseeable near future, this is what I'll have to live with.  On the other hand, I have a DLIII in my main AV system that I could use. I'm also considering the Woo WA7 down the road but another option would be to use my DLIII (optical in from a MacMini) and go the V200 route. 
   
  In the short term, I'm pretty sure that I'll be joining the HD800 crowd.  I simply like the Sennheiser house sound. Been through the HD600, HD650 and now the HD700. Would the Schiit stack be an OK starting point?  I really can't see myself spending $2K+ upgrading my source/amp but utilizing what I have and moving some stuff around,  I can see myself investing another $1K down the road.
  Lots to consider. Thoughts?


----------



## tjkurita

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I just spent the past few days going through this thread.  Like some, I dismissed the HD800 as lifeless and lacking in bass.  There was a HeadFi meet last week in Toronto and I had a chance to audition the HD800 through my Bifrost/Lyr.  I was totally blown away. Smooth as silk, great bass and sweet, sweet mids and highs. It just sounded right to me.
> 
> I currently have the HD700 and HE500.  Believe it or not, there was more bass out of the HD700 but it was more controlled and tighter on the HD800.  They both just smoked the HE500 for bass.  After spending some time with the HD800, the treble peak on the HD700 became more  apparent and even in the short time I auditioned the HD800, I realized that this is where I want to go. After hearing the HD800, the HD700 are starting to grate on me.
> 
> ...


 
   
  If the sound of the HD800 through your current rig is what made you want it in the first place, why not just stay with the rig you have?  There's no guarantee than anything different will sound any better you than your current set up.  Keep the amp and upgrade your source if you are itching to do something new.  But if you found an amp that synergizes well with the HD800, stick with it.  I guess it is anathema on boards like this to advise NOT to upgrade or change things.  But I think you should always stick with what you like.  Especially if the HD800 was a revelation on your very own rig...  Seems like a perfect situation to me.


----------



## wink

Quote:BournePerfect 





> Or buy some Ultrasones.


 
  Now, there's a mistake.....


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





tjkurita said:


> If the sound of the HD800 through your current rig is what made you want it in the first place, why not just stay with the rig you have?  There's no guarantee than anything different will sound any better you than your current set up.  Keep the amp and upgrade your source if you are itching to do something new.  But if you found an amp that synergizes well with the HD800, stick with it.  I guess it is anathema on boards like this to advise NOT to upgrade or change things.  But I think you should always stick with what you like.  Especially if the HD800 was a revelation on your very own rig...  Seems like a perfect situation to me.


 
   
  +1
   
  also amperex orange globes are really nice tubes


----------



## hekeli

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> looks like there is a pair of hd800's going for less than 700 euro on the sale forum - madness!


 
   
  On a serious note, here we have *second-second-hand* phones that cost *950€ new* in the EU (yes some stores quote 1200€ or some other crazy price, that's not real and you should look further). 70-80% for second hand is fair, anything else is usually just a ripoff. Of course there always might be some desperate people..


----------



## olor1n

I had the Bifrost/Lyr stack with the HD800 for some weeks before upgrading. The Lyr really stifles the HD800's resolve but it is enjoyable and dynamic. The Orange Globes added some heft at the expense of clarity. It was too much. The 60's Bugle Boys had the same bottom end rendition with good separation between elements. I didn't really appreciate these tubes with the HD650 or LCD-2. The HD800 revealed how good they truly were. Much better than the over hyped Lorenz Stuttgarts I also had on hand.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I just spent the past few days going through this thread.  Like some, I dismissed the HD800 as lifeless and lacking in bass.  There was a HeadFi meet last week in Toronto and I had a chance to audition the HD800 through my Bifrost/Lyr.  I was totally blown away. Smooth as silk, great bass and sweet, sweet mids and highs. It just sounded right to me.
> 
> I currently have the HD700 and HE500.  Believe it or not, there was more bass out of the HD700 but it was more controlled and tighter on the HD800.  They both just smoked the HE500 for bass.  After spending some time with the HD800, the treble peak on the HD700 became more  apparent and even in the short time I auditioned the HD800, I realized that this is where I want to go. After hearing the HD800, the HD700 are starting to grate on me.
> 
> ...


 
  Good stuff. Yeah I think your HE500's may gather quite a bit of dust once you get the HD800's. I've always had at least two phones on the go at any one time. Always one for classical and another for jazz electronic etc. But since getting the Senn's I'm not left wanting anything else headphone wise. They are the ultimate all-rounder imo. I bought them originally for classical, but jazz, ambient (brilliant with good electronic music) all sound fantastic. 
   
  I had read many times that the HD800's would only sound good if the recording was top notch. But this has not been the case with me. They have an almost orthos like quality in smoothing out bad recordings without missing a single nuance. All dynamics that I've owned prior to these had the inherent grain issues in the treble. There is none with the Senn's. Smooth as a young ladies a*se. Or breasts for that matter..


----------



## DefQon

The HD800's are a good all rounder with some tube amp's. More so when compared to the solid states out there which now and then will be suited for a few genres instead. Unless you're powering the 800's off a vintage integrated amp with bass/treble dials to adjust to whatever you want.


----------



## paradoxper

HD800's and Dynalo-Dynahi user's out there. Is there no better?


----------



## milosz

I like the HD800's with Bottlehead Crack /  Speedball.  Also good with my Beta 22.
   
  The HD800's are the only 'phones I've heard that offer transparency that approaches the better electrostatics, while delivering more bass impact than electrostatics. Look at Purrin's waterfall plots- the HD800's are as clean in time-domain behavior as electrostatics-  EXCEPT for the ringing at that darn treble peak they have. 
   
  That's the one flaw that I really struggle with.  And it's not just a response peak- the HD800's store energy and ring it back at about 6 kHz and a little bit at 12 kHz too.  You can't eliminate that with EQ or a particualr amp's treble roll-off.  The Anax mod ameliorates this behavior to a degree, but it's still the flaw that keeps them from being near perfect.  That's why it annoys! They're almost perfect *but.*...
   
  Most (all?) other dynamic, and planar, headphones have many more flaws; the HD800 is nearly without flaws-  which, in a way, magnifies their treble 'issues' - it they had more distortion, rang all over the place, and so on, you'd never single out their treble issues.  But because they're otherwise SOOOO GOOD the treble issues kind of stand out like sore thumbs. It's kind of like the (USA) Liberty Bell.  If the Liberty Bell were beat to hell, painted with graffiti and had a few holes in it, you wouldn't find a slight crack in one edge to be very noticeable.  But because the bell is in very good shape ASIDE from that one crack, then that single flaw becomes the main thing the bell is noted for.
   
   
   
  Purrin waterfall plot of HD800 (Anax mod)


----------



## Solude

Not sure you are using the right word.  Ringing presents itself like this...
   

   
  The HD800 has no ringing.  Evident in it's various plots.   The HD800 has even less ringing than the SR009.


----------



## DefQon

I guess you can mask the treble 5-6k peak by powering the 800's off a good vintage integrated amp with headphone out control adjustments via the bass/treble dials? I'm doing this so far out of a Marantz PM-32 and blows all the other amp's I've tried, besting even my modded b22. The downsight is the amp is big and kind of ugly and not in it's best condition.
   
  @Solude, would you say the ringing from the LCD3 could be an issue due to resonance off the grills?


----------



## Taliesin

Has anyone tried the hd800 with the icon audio hp8 mk2


----------



## MickeyVee

Thanks! I'm probably over-thinking the rest of the setup after reading through hundreds of posts.  I'll start off with the HD800 and the Schiit Stack and work with the tubes I have.  Now it's just the wait for the HD700 & HE500 to sell.
  Quote: 





tjkurita said:


> If the sound of the HD800 through your current rig is what made you want it in the first place, why not just stay with the rig you have?  There's no guarantee than anything different will sound any better you than your current set up.  Keep the amp and upgrade your source if you are itching to do something new.  But if you found an amp that synergizes well with the HD800, stick with it.  I guess it is anathema on boards like this to advise NOT to upgrade or change things.  But I think you should always stick with what you like.  Especially if the HD800 was a revelation on your very own rig...  Seems like a perfect situation to me.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





defqon said:


> @Solude, would you say the ringing from the LCD3 could be an issue due to resonance off the grills?


 
   
  I wouldn't hazard a guess.  Simply don't know, so will only say that they ring while the LCD-2 does not or at least much less despite the similar shape and materials...


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I just spent the past few days going through this thread.  Like some, I dismissed the HD800 as lifeless and lacking in bass.  There was a HeadFi meet last week in Toronto and I had a chance to audition the HD800 through my Bifrost/Lyr.  I was totally blown away. Smooth as silk, great bass and sweet, sweet mids and highs. It just sounded right to me.
> 
> I currently have the HD700 and HE500.  Believe it or not, there was more bass out of the HD700 but it was more controlled and tighter on the HD800.  They both just smoked the HE500 for bass.  After spending some time with the HD800, the treble peak on the HD700 became more  apparent and even in the short time I auditioned the HD800, I realized that this is where I want to go. After hearing the HD800, the HD700 are starting to grate on me.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've got the same Schiit stack and OG tubes. I totally agree with olor1ns observations above, except I don't have the Lorenz tubes.  The HD800s sound good out of the Schiit stack, and for best overall clarity best out of the Burson Conductor.  But for best bass impact my LD MKIV/SE with Voskhod driver tubes is truly remarkable.
   
  I also got my HD800s for $1100 as refurbs from Crutchfield, no complaints, 9/10, no chips but Sharpie at the ready.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





wink said:


> Now, there's a mistake.....


 
  Referring strictly to their build quality. (although the Pro 2900 is still my favorite 'fun' headphone)
   
  -Daniel


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I just spent the past few days going through this thread.  Like some, I dismissed the HD800 as lifeless and lacking in bass.  There was a HeadFi meet last week in Toronto and I had a chance to audition the HD800 through my Bifrost/Lyr.  I was totally blown away. Smooth as silk, great bass and sweet, sweet mids and highs. It just sounded right to me.
> 
> I currently have the HD700 and HE500.  Believe it or not, there was more bass out of the HD700 but it was more controlled and tighter on the HD800.  They both just smoked the HE500 for bass.  After spending some time with the HD800, the treble peak on the HD700 became more  apparent and even in the short time I auditioned the HD800, I realized that this is where I want to go. After hearing the HD800, the HD700 are starting to grate on me.
> 
> ...


 
   
  No surprise with your journey, MV....At $1k I love the Decware CSP2+. Awesome synergy with the HD800's (and HD650's)


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Just like the Guitar manufacturers...Road Worn Headphones!


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> Has anyone tried the hd800 with the icon audio hp8 mk2


 
   
  I have and it's currently my main headphone rig. To keep it short, I absolutely love it and can't understand why the amp isn't more appreciated here on Headfi. It's a superb combination with the HD800 and you can forget any concerns about the headphone's alleged weaknesses once you have this pairing. To put it in context I preferred it to the v200 for the HD800 by a significant margin. Check out Project86's review. My own review is nearly finished too - I'll try and post it this week.


----------



## cucera

There is the High End fair in Munich right now, and a guy on a German forum just posted he measured the output impedance of the HDVD800 with Prism Sound dScope III and it is 43Ohms. He also talked to a Sennheiser Produkt Manager and he confirmed that they started with 10 Ohms but after many blind Sound Tests they ended at 43 Ohm.


----------



## MickeyVee

Thanks.  Actually, a friend of mine has one and offered to lend it to me at any time.  Once I get the HD800 and have it broken in on my system, I'll take him up on the offer.
  Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> No surprise with your journey, MV....At $1k I love the Decware CSP2+. Awesome synergy with the HD800's (and HD650's)


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Thanks.  Actually, a friend of mine has one and offered to lend it to me at any time.  Once I get the HD800 and have it broken in on my system, I'll take him up on the offer.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Nice!


----------



## Stapsy

Aha sorry MickeyVee...a HD700 and HE500 is definately worth a HD800 anyway.  When you end up getting them let me know.  I did the Anax mod on mine and it really takes them to another level.  I have a bunch of leftover materials if you want.


----------



## technica18

Where did you guys buy the materials for the anax mod? I went to Michaels but they didn't really have all the recommended materials from the Inner fidelity.com review.


----------



## Stapsy

I found the foam at Michaels no problem.  I used the 2.0 mm Creatology foam with the adhesive backing already attached.  I bought the shelf liner at Bed, Bath, and Beyond.  I honestly think the HD800 become more resolving and detailed when the excessive treble is removed with the mod.


----------



## technica18

They didn't have the adhesive backed foam. Did you get the "basic felt" from Michael's?


----------



## vackraord

How about a photo or two in honor of my newest acquisition


----------



## DefQon

One of the best SS setup's right there. Assuming the Auditor has the same internals as the Phonitor without the crossfeed and vu meter, heaps better than any of the b22 config's I've tried.


----------



## LugBug1

Lookin good ^^
   
  The Auditor and the Senn's look like they were made for each other


----------



## milosz

Isn't this 1 ms of ringing at 6 kHz?
   
  I agree it's not like a set of Grado's, or that plot of the Audeze 'phones that you posted-  but to say "the HD800 has no ringing" -  really?  None?  As in zero?  True, it has a better waterfall plot than just about anything else out there, but that only serves to more fully expose it's flaw at 6 kHz.  If there was more random peakiness / longer die-off times all over the place in the HD800 plot, it would mask the problems at 6 kHz to some degree, the 6 kHz issue wouldn't stand out as much as it does now.
   
  Sure looks like energy stays around a little longer at 6 kHz  than it does in the frequency regime around ~3 kHz  where it seems betterl damped.
   
  My point wasn't that the HD800's are a lousy headphone which ring like tin cans-  my point was that it's not just a 6 kHz  peak that is the issue, but some energy storage at that frequency as well.  Because it's a time-domain issue and not* just* a frequency domain one, no amplifier pairing will be able to get rid of it.


----------



## Solude

The counter to that would be that the level starts higher at 6K compared to 3K as well.  So it could simply be the 3K plot lifted.  But ringing is when the frequency literally rings continuously even after the signal is gone like in the LCD-3 plot.  The joke is that GoldenEars got a little ringing around 3K...


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





milosz said:


> My point wasn't that the HD800's are a lousy headphone which ring like tin cans-  my point was that it's not just a 6 kHz  peak that is the issue, but some energy storage at that frequency as well.  Because it's a time-domain issue and not* just* a frequency domain one, no amplifier pairing will be able to get rid of it.


 
  Imho, the sub bass is a bigger issue on the hd800. You can see in this graph that there are flaws below 1k. And if the hd800 got more sub bass , people 's attention, wouldn't be focused on the treble. From what I've heard the mid bass is fine, but I  would think that the hd800 would sound more natural and balanced, if they got more sub bass.
   
  Quote: 





solude said:


> The counter to that would be that the level starts higher at 6K compared to 3K as well.  So it could simply be the 3K plot lifted.  But ringing is when the frequency literally rings continuously even after the signal is gone like in the LCD-3 plot.  The joke is that GoldenEars got a little ringing around 3K...


 
  So the csd graph of hd800 at golden ear website is valid ? Because the csd of the cheaper srh940 looks so much better.


----------



## vackraord

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Lookin good ^^
> 
> The Auditor and the Senn's look like they were made for each other


 
  Yes, the silver on the HD800 matches the one on the Auditor perfectly!


----------



## silversurfer616

Can see the "ringing' on the graph but my ears can't hear it!What now?


----------



## Maxvla

milosz said:


> Isn't this 1 ms of ringing at 6 kHz?
> 
> I agree it's not like a set of Grado's, or that plot of the Audeze 'phones that you posted-  but to say "the HD800 has no ringing" -  really?  None?  As in zero?  True, it has a better waterfall plot than just about anything else out there, but that only serves to more fully expose it's flaw at 6 kHz.  If there was more random peakiness / longer die-off times all over the place in the HD800 plot, it would mask the problems at 6 kHz to some degree, the 6 kHz issue wouldn't stand out as much as it does now.
> 
> ...




Really stretching on this one. Finding the slightest flaw that isn't even audible to prove a point. That's like saying Michael Jordan wasn't a great player because his 3 point shooting % is not that good. :rolleyes:


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> Can see the "ringing' on the graph but my ears can't hear it!What now?


 

  Ignore it and enjoy


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

So I waltzed in here a week or so ago and was told the SA5000 are the closest cans that come to the HD800's
   
  Realizing that I would prefer an easy to amp can, I decided to go with the HE400
   
  But I see SA5000's on sale used for $375. How much am I looking to spend on an amp/DAC to get these to sound good and/or remotely similar to HD800's?
   
  Fast responses would be appreciated...I missed out on bidding on these a week ago and the winning bid was $300. I almost cried
   
  Or maybe I'm still better off sticking with the HE400's?


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Ignore it and enjoy


 
  +1 here...


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





3ternaldr4gon said:


> So I waltzed in here a week or so ago and was told the SA5000 are the closest cans that come to the HD800's
> 
> Realizing that I would prefer an easy to amp can, I decided to go with the HE400
> 
> ...


 
  Well, If the SA5K is anything simliar sounding to the SA3K I honestly can't recommend it.  Instead for $375 I would recommend the K702 65th anniversary or K712 if the street price comes down similarly.  I'm not saying the K702 65th is that similar to the HD800 but it errs more towards the unoffensive side versus the SA3K that I found to be offensively bright and bassless.  Not sure how much the SA5K improves on this.
   
   I'd honestly love to hear the K7xx again now that I have my Burson Soloist but I had to sell them to fund my HD800.  I even felt my old K701 was more enjoyable than when I heard the SA3K.  Just all IMHO of course.


----------



## RIQUE

This is my bedside rig that I use to listen to music while I´m on my laptop or reading. I must say that the HD800 have been taken to a new dimension with the new Benchmark DAC I and the almighty XA7ES as a transport. Just wonderful sound all around in case anybody is considering a Dac/amp to drive these phones.


----------



## rawrster

My HD800 should be stable for a while. I had a good setup before except the DAC wasn't as good as the DAC I use for my HE6 except that is only has one output and it is SE. I ended up with a Buffalo III DAC which I got recently in the FS and my HD800 rig sounds fantastic. It's as if it was meant for the HD800. I could live with this for a really long time.
   
  It's starting to make me question my HE6 which hasn't moved from my stand in the last couple months. I should probably sell them considering how much I use them but for now they will stay. It probably will be addressed some time in the future.


----------



## palmfish

rique said:


> This is my bedside rig that I use to listen to music while I´m on my laptop or reading. I must say that the HD800 have been taken to a new dimension with the new Benchmark DAC I and the almighty XA7ES as a transport. Just wonderful sound all around in case anybody is considering a Dac/amp to drive these phones.




Beautiful CD player! But what a shame to bypass its fantastic analog output.


----------



## RIQUE

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Beautiful CD player! But what a shame to bypass its fantastic analog output.





>


 
  No other way to bypass the wimpy headphone amp.  The new DAC section is definately a serious improvement over the
  units in the player.


----------



## palmfish

rique said:


> No other way to bypass the wimpy headphone amp.  The new DAC section is definately a serious improvement over the
> units in the player.




Time marches on I suppose. Yesterdays flagship is todays skiff, huh?

I also have a DAC1 and find the amp and DAC to both be top notch with the HD800. 

I did recently pick up a lovely Pioneer Elite DV-79AVi off Craigslist for a song. Its not of the caliber of your Sony, but it does have that lovely lush analog sound or when Im in the mood for that sort of thing...


----------



## EraserXIV

I was getting ready to drop $1k on a DAC to complement my HD650, but got cold feet and am now having thoughts on putting that money towards an HD800. Any thoughts on where the $ is better spent?
   
  I am worried about the fact that it'll be a bit before I can invest in a decent source for the HD800s, and in my time with them, they were pretty source picky. I'm left with about $500+ to play around with for the DAC.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





eraserxiv said:


> I was getting ready to drop $1k on a DAC to complement my HD650, but got cold feet and am now having thoughts on putting that money towards an HD800. Any thoughts on where the $ is better spent?
> 
> I am worried about the fact that it'll be a bit before I can invest in a decent source for the HD800s, and in my time with them, they were pretty source picky. I'm left with about $500+ to play around with for the DAC.


 
  It's not just a source you will need for the HD800's, a new amp and source would be needed to get the HD800's to sound good. The Crack is just ok with the HD800's but awesome with the HD650. That said two headphones, two different sound signatures, don't listen to the credits that come from this thread for the HD800's, listen to them yourself and decide which is best that you like. 
   
  @SA5K guy. The SA5k is a SA3k with leather pads and different build. The only thing the SA series can touch the HD800's on is the similar airy sound presentation other aspects such as detail retrieval, clarity, soundstage and all doesn't come close to the HD800's regardless of amplification if you want to retain that original sound.


----------



## milosz

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Really stretching on this one. Finding the slightest flaw that isn't even audible to prove a point. That's like saying Michael Jordan wasn't a great player because his 3 point shooting % is not that good.


 
  Actually, no, you misunderstand what I am saying....
   
  I am saying since this is_ just about their only flaw_, it stands out more than it would otherwise.  If there were a lot of other flaws, you would probably not notice this 6 KHz issue at all.


----------



## Solude

Maybe but the issue with the 6K region is level not ringing or long decay.


----------



## horsh

This is my frequency response chart from sennheiser for my hd800's,how does this compare to other charts? I've read that everyone's charts are different.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





defqon said:


> One of the best SS setup's right there. Assuming the Auditor has the same internals as the Phonitor without the crossfeed and vu meter, heaps better than any of the b22 config's I've tried.


 
   
  Ah,  The Phonitor got stomped by the B22 builds I've heard.


----------



## BobJS

I recently bought Crutchfield refurbs with new warranty ....... I haven't tried yet, but does this entitle me to a (somewhat meaningless) FR plot from Sennheiser?


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Ah,  The Phonitor got stomped by the B22 builds I've heard.


 
  You've told me before and nice hyperbole going on there you must be packing one unique b22 for it stop the Phonitor. At least I know myself I'm not the only one that thinks the b22 is no longer the best sounding combo with the HD800's at all.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





horsh said:


> This is my frequency response chart from sennheiser for my hd800's,how does this compare to other charts? I've read that everyone's charts are different.


 
   
  There's a thread with a bunch of different frequency charts. http://www.head-fi.org/t/433059/sennheiser-hd800-certificate-for-frequency-response-arrived
  Quote: 





defqon said:


> You've told me before and nice hyperbole going on there you must be packing one unique b22 for it stop the Phonitor. At least I know myself I'm not the only one that thinks the b22 is no longer the best sounding combo with the HD800's at all.


 
   
  I'm going to have to try the Phonitor one day. I thought the Beta was pretty good with the HD800


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





defqon said:


> You've told me before and nice hyperbole going on there you must be packing one unique b22 for it stop the Phonitor. At least I know myself I'm not the only one that thinks the b22 is no longer the best sounding combo with the HD800's at all.


 
  Never said it was the best sounding with the HD800 now did I?.  
   
  I like the GS-X mkII with the HD800s myself.  
   
  FYI:  All B22s has a chance to be unique. They start out as a blank PCB / circuit board, from there the sky's the limed  - maybe you didn't know that.  
   
  Ah.. Good job justifying your finding by what others think - way to go on that one.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





preproman said:


> *Never said it was the best sounding with the HD800 now did I?.  *
> 
> I like the GS-X mkII with the HD800s myself.
> 
> FYI:  All B22s has a chance to be unique. They start out as a blank PCB / circuit board, from there the sky's the limed  - maybe you didn't know that.


 
  Then why did you say that your b22 stomps the Phonitor in response to my post where I said to the other user the "assuming the Auditor has the same guts as the Phonitor, it is easily one of the best combos right there for the HD800". Not to mention we are discussing about amp recommendations for the HD800's, not amp's for x, y and z headphones - HD800's. Did you feel satisfied that you had to object your opinion with a overused hyperbole term such as "stomps" in your post? Seriously.
   
  All b22's have a BOM list that it follows and you can't just drop in any fancy part for every component to make it sound night and day different to other b22's, all the differences are miniscule and subtle. Parts that can be changed on the PCB to the sky's limit substituting the resistors for better ones, cap's for boutique ones which in most cases in the design of the b22 have little or no sound differences at all and using WIMA mkp caps rather than stock Vishay or any other ones and finally a better pot or using the digital attenuator Ti Kan designed himself. These are about the only things you can change for better ones, even if you changed everything on the PCB for the best out there, the sound between the b22's are not great at all, I know this because I have build 3 b22's to play around, compared 4 - 5 other b22 builds by other people and the only times I found great sound differences was the case of a different source used. 
   
  So you can't exactly say the sky's the limit with populating the PCB only. Yeah the sky's the limit when you start counting in things such as the brand of the tranny used, whether or not you want use the dc offset relay system Ti made, using expensive premium pots, enclosure, wiring etc. 
   
  @rawr. The b22 is a good amp, but in my opinion not that good with the HD800. It is sometimes too uncalled for for being bright, attenuating that treble peak of the HD800's especially for vocal and classic pieces. It took me less than 5 minutes from auditioning the Phonitor at Jabens to notice the depth and supreme neutrality the Phonitor exhibited that my b22 did not. It was balanced hooked up to some Denon transport playing some demo sample cd's that come with McIntosh amp's. I listen to one of the classical tracks I was familiar with and I noticed the HD800 was very neutral sounding, no brightness in the treble and there was this depth to the piece being played - all this in under 5 minutes of listen time.
   
  The b22 is very good for dark/warm headphones.


----------



## Solude

Electrically the B22 is best suited to resistive low impedance cans, ie orthos.  It doesn't like seeing the HD800 as a load and consequently doesn't sound as good as non MOSFET output SS amps.  Personally feel the B22 is bested by a handful of lesser SS amps when talking high impedance high inductance cans.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





defqon said:


> *Then why did you say that your b22 stomps the Phonitor in response to my post where I said to the other user the "assuming the Auditor has the same guts as the Phonitor, it is easily one of the best combos right there for the HD800". Not to mention we are discussing about amp recommendations for the HD800's,*


 
   
  Because, while I prefer the GS-X mkII with my HD800s - I also prefer the B22 over the Phonitor with the HD800s - That's why,,
   
  Again, I never said anything about night and day differences.  However, every small and subtle difference that you can achieve will add up to an overall greater improvement.  
   
  Again our experiences and hearing are not the same at all.  I find the B22 to be colored and tilted to being on the warm side of neutral and not being that great with dark/warm headphones and being better sounding with bright headphones. 
   
  I feel as much satisfied using such words as you do when you rely on others findings to justify yours.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> Electrically the B22 is best suited to resistive low impedance cans, ie orthos.  It doesn't like seeing the HD800 as a load and consequently doesn't sound as good as non MOSFET output SS amps.  Personally feel the B22 is bested by a handful of lesser SS amps when talking high impedance high inductance cans.


 
   
  Funny how the B22 is the best amp for my T1s.  Even better that the GS-X mkII..


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Because, while I prefer the GS-X mkII with my HD800s - I also prefer the B22 over the Phonitor with the HD800s - That's why,,
> 
> *Again, I never said anything about night and day differences.  However, every small and subtle difference that you can achieve will add up to an overall greater improvement.  *
> 
> ...


 
  Oh that's right because you said "your b22 stomps the Phonitor". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It must be some small differences there for use of such a hyperbole.
   
  Ok then how do I rely on other peoples findings to justify mine? Please explain this to me. What I write is based on things I've heard, touched and owned. I get straight to the point, if I think a FOTM headphone or amp is crap I'm not afraid to say it is crap or otherwise, I state my opinion straight up fair and square to the point I'm making rather what most users here do is huddle and cuddle on a brand bandwagon too scared to say bad things about a particular amp/dac/headphone. This turns reviews into most reviews 6moon's have (which I do read now and then for the shiggles). So please don't say stuff such "oh you can't justify x product findings because you haven't heard it properly or you need to rely on other peoples to come to a conclusion yourself for said product", you obviously don't know anything about me nor my findings.
   
  The moment you came in with that post "ah, my b22 stomps the Phonitor" I knew you were trying to start a fire against me because we've had a similar argument/discussion before in the LCD2 appreciation thread, well the fire is lit and it ain't going to go out between you and me, oh maybe when you post something about the b22, I should barge in and say "the Phonitor stomps the b22".


----------



## paradoxper




----------



## Frank I

LMAO
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




The HD800 really rocks and it is very good on the new HDVD800


----------



## dukeskd

Phonitor + HD800 = amazing.


----------



## Nordwestlicht

Well, well, well... my Picard 0032200-08 (high class workmanship from Germany) stomps all of your amps... very very very easily!


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> Phonitor + HD800 = amazing.


 
  It is isn't it. Certainly not the best out there obviously, but the synergy between the two is really good. A bigger advantage with the Phonitor of having possibly the best built-in crossfeed system if needed. Project86 did a review on the Auditor which retails for $999 but sells for average $650-750 on ebay and other outlets and he did mention the guts are identical minus the crossfeed + vu meters of the Phonitor, if actually true than for the price the Auditor + HD800 is a very very very good start. And I don't usually highly praise products here.


----------



## EraserXIV

Quote: 





defqon said:


> It's not just a source you will need for the HD800's, a new amp and source would be needed to get the HD800's to sound good. The Crack is just ok with the HD800's but awesome with the HD650. That said two headphones, two different sound signatures, don't listen to the credits that come from this thread for the HD800's, listen to them yourself and decide which is best that you like.


 
   
  Thanks for the input. I have auditioned them before, but unfortunately not with my current setup and I don't have a line on a pair anymore to test out in my rig 
   
  I've heard decent experiences about the HD800 hooked up to the Crack and that the next step up as far as tube amps go would be a Decware, which is unfortunately more than I'm willing to spend at the moment for an amp. I feel I'd get more for my money by putting it towards a different headphone instead.
   
  I like the HD650 for its full and romantic sound, but I realized that every upgrade I was considering for it was to try to get it closer to the HD800 sound I liked when I heard it. I guess I just wanted a change of pace. Instead of dropping $300 on a cable, an extra $500+ on a DAC to try to get closer to the HD800 sound I liked, it makes more sense for the $800+ to just go towards getting the darn headphones. Plus, I'll still have the HD650 to go back to when I want that romantic sound again.


----------



## DefQon

Get the HD800's and slowly upgrade from there. Keep the HD650 as a complementary setup. Both are different sounding and both have its advantages and disadvantages but the HD800's win all out hands down if run through a good amp and source setup. Or maybe you can try the HD800's on your Crack and see if you like it, you never know, my ears are not yours.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





nordwestlicht said:


> Well, well, well... my Picard 0032200-08 (high class workmanship from Germany) stomps all of your amps... very very very easily!


 
   
  Just keep it away from my amps, and we're cool.


----------



## negura

Alright - the HD800s are such a beast. In a great way.
   
  A while ago I've built myself a badass copper cable with high-end wires, soldering and good connectors and I think I am right now clocking 150-200 hours on it. I swear it's transformed from when I first listened to it. It adds strong body, bass presence, musicality and a hint of warmth to my HD800s. The treble is still really well extended but actually my HD800s are now less sibilant prone than the LCD-3s. The latter is with silver cables.
   
  Recently I've added an interface (AP2+IFI IUSB) to my upstream and that's also added another couple of notches of flow, detail, smoothness, musicality and extension. 
   
  The slam and the energy are still surprising me, it's the N-th time the last couple of days and I am still getting surprised by it.
   
  I keep getting amazed how much the HD800s scale when fed the proper sauce. If anyone tells me again the HD800s sound thin, lack bass, too sibilant, I could laugh, but I will say ... please have patience and build a system around them and you will be GREATLY rewarded.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





eraserxiv said:


> Thanks for the input. I have auditioned them before, but unfortunately not with my current setup and I don't have a line on a pair anymore to test out in my rig
> 
> I've heard decent experiences about the HD800 hooked up to the Crack and that the next step up as far as tube amps go would be a Decware, which is unfortunately more than I'm willing to spend at the moment for an amp. I feel I'd get more for my money by putting it towards a different headphone instead.
> 
> I like the HD650 for its full and romantic sound, but I realized that every upgrade I was considering for it was to try to get it closer to the HD800 sound I liked when I heard it. I guess I just wanted a change of pace. Instead of dropping $300 on a cable, an extra $500+ on a DAC to try to get closer to the HD800 sound I liked, it makes more sense for the $800+ to just go towards getting the darn headphones. Plus, I'll still have the HD650 to go back to when I want that romantic sound again.


 
  Skip the cable unless you want balanced. You can get a stock cable reterminated for cheap if that's the reason. Spending it all on the DAC would be a better idea. At $800 you can get some pretty good DACs esp if you buy used.


----------



## EraserXIV

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> Skip the cable unless you want balanced. You can get a stock cable reterminated for cheap if that's the reason. Spending it all on the DAC would be a better idea. At $800 you can get some pretty good DACs esp if you buy used.


 
   
  Yeah that's the plan, the remaining money is going towards a DAC. The HD800 cable is a nice departure from the paltry offering that came with the HD6X0, at least as far as stock cables are concerned. Also, with the DAC scene in such flux nowadays (with the resurgence of DSD, better USB implementations not requiring a transport, etc), I think I'm better off waiting and seeing what's still standing after all the dust settles.


----------



## RIQUE

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Time marches on I suppose. Yesterdays flagship is todays skiff, huh?
> 
> I also have a DAC1 and find the amp and DAC to both be top notch with the HD800.
> 
> I did recently pick up a lovely Pioneer Elite DV-79AVi off Craigslist for a song. Its not of the caliber of your Sony, but it does have that lovely lush analog sound or when Im in the mood for that sort of thing.


 
  Indeed technology moves at a fast pace specially the digital processing section. However, reading on the internet and other forums the XA7ES´s transport and power section is still State of the Art by todays highest standards.  I bought this unit new and moved on to SACD and had it gathering dust for years. I took the top off for a look inside and was amazed at how much copper it
  has inside the case for RF isolation. Its close to 30lbs!


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





rique said:


> Indeed technology moves at a fast pace specially the digital processing section. However, reading on the internet and other forums the XA7ES´s transport and power section is still State of the Art by todays highest standards.  I bought this unit new and moved on to SACD and had it gathering dust for years. I took the top off for a look inside and was amazed at how much copper it
> has inside the case for RF isolation. Its close to 30lbs!


 
   
  They dont make them like that anymore, thats for sure!
   
  Its a beauty.


----------



## RIQUE

Quote: 





eraserxiv said:


> I was getting ready to drop $1k on a DAC to complement my HD650, but got cold feet and am now having thoughts on putting that money towards an HD800. Any thoughts on where the $ is better spent?
> 
> I am worried about the fact that it'll be a bit before I can invest in a decent source for the HD800s, and in my time with them, they were pretty source picky. I'm left with about $500+ to play around with for the DAC.


 
   
  Eraser, let me tell you one thing. When I got my HD800 I was driving them with a little Headroom amp, then the cd player amp and then the pre amp headphone amp. The HD800 sucked!!!
  My old Grado 325 kicked its ass all day.  I think the HD800 are very hard to drive and if I were you I would first get a top notch dac/amp that will drive your HD650 without breaking a sweat. Once you upgrade your headphones you will not need to wory about juice for the 800´s. Just the way I see it.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

1700 dollar budget for DAC+Amp, what should I go for?


----------



## extrabigmehdi

According to uchihaitachi, a lot of people preferred "the LCD-3 and HD650 over the Orpheus and the HD800"
  during a blind test (people were blindfolded):
  http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-orpheus-he-90/reviews/8951
   
  This is for people that keep repeating that the hd800 are the best, just like a broken record.
  I  wish I  tried these hd650.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> 1700 dollar budget for DAC+Amp, what should I go for?


 
  A Auditor fits right in there. Choose a DAC of your choice.


----------



## RIQUE

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> 1700 dollar budget for DAC+Amp, what should I go for?


 
   
  Benchmark DAC I all the way. If you can dish out some more cash they have come out with the DAC II.   I tell ya the DAC I and the HD800 are a perfect match. Highly recommended


----------



## Maxvla

extrabigmehdi said:


> According to uchihaitachi, a lot of people preferred "the LCD-3 and HD650 over the Orpheus and the HD800"
> during a blind test (people were blindfolded):
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-orpheus-he-90/reviews/8951
> 
> ...



It is impossible to have a blind test with those 4 headphones as they fit VERY differently. Only the 650 and Orpheus are somewhat similar, but still different. It would be instantly obvious which you were wearing. That test is a farce.


----------



## EraserXIV

Quote: 





rique said:


> Eraser, let me tell you one thing. When I got my HD800 I was driving them with a little Headroom amp, then the cd player amp and then the pre amp headphone amp. The HD800 sucked!!!
> My old Grado 325 kicked its ass all day.  I think the HD800 are very hard to drive and if I were you I would first get a top notch dac/amp that will drive your HD650 without breaking a sweat. Once you upgrade your headphones you will not need to wory about juice for the 800´s. Just the way I see it.


 
   
  Thanks for the advice, I'm not too worried about the Crack not providing enough juice. It's got plenty of power in reserve and seems to do a well enough job for a good amount of people. Certainly not end-game, but for under $800 I don't know of many alternatives that'll get you much closer. Now I just need to find a reasonably priced DAC to go with it.


----------



## BournePerfect

You kids, my Leviathan is gonna stomp everything with the HD 800.  That said, I kinda want both a GSX2 and a Phonitor/Auditor for an easy SS amp alternative.

-Daniel


----------



## MorbidToaster

bourneperfect said:


> You kids, my Leviathan is gonna stomp everything with the HD 800.  That said, I kinda want both a GSX2 and a Phonitor/Auditor for an easy SS amp alternative.
> 
> -Daniel




I'd hope so considering the estimated price of that amp.


----------



## DefQon

What is the estimated price of the Leviathan?


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





defqon said:


> What is the estimated price of the Leviathan?


 
   
  I believe it could vary widely depending upon the transformers used.


----------



## DefQon

Yeah and I'm betting off the top of my head it will be > $3.5k for a base configuration?


----------



## MorbidToaster

defqon said:


> What is the estimated price of the Leviathan?




Right now around 7 grand...


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Get the HD800's and slowly upgrade from there. Keep the HD650 as a complementary setup. Both are different sounding and both have its advantages and disadvantages but the HD800's win all out hands down if run through a good amp and source setup. Or maybe you can try the HD800's on your Crack and see if you like it, you never know, my ears are not yours.


 
  +1


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Right now around 7 grand...


 
  What?


----------



## verber

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> According to uchihaitachi, a lot of people preferred "the LCD-3 and HD650 over the Orpheus and the HD800"
> during a blind test (people were blindfolded):
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-orpheus-he-90/reviews/8951
> 
> ...


 
  I am with Maxvla... this seems very odd.  Each of those headphones feels very different on the head. I would have immediately know which headphone was on my head.  Well, actually, I haven't used the orpheus, so I wouldn't have recognized it... but process of elimination I would have known.
   
  I am a big believer in blind A/B testing because knowing what you are listening to will effect your judgement... I have repeatedly seen this happen, especially when the differences between components is subtle.  I am surprised that people opinions shifts so much blinded/sighted with those headphones since in my experience they sound very different.
   
  I do understand why people might prefer the LCD3 or 650s to the HD800.  If I was a bass head, I might prefer the LCD3.  If I didn't like  in your face detail... but wanted headphones that mellow everything out, I would love the 650s.  But that's not me.   I am not someone who would say the HD800 is the best.  I like Stax SR-009 more, and depending on the track, I sometimes prefer SR-007mk1.  Other than those to headphones, yeah, I would say for my tastes the HD800 is the best.  I like an open, fast, detailed, accurate / neutral set of cans.  The HD800 is all these things.  Speaking of listener bias... I was completely shocked when I compared the HD800 to a number of the lesser Stax and the Koss 950s  Having been a Stax lover for years, I didn't believe a dynamic headphone could touch electrostatics for jazz, classical, and female vocalists.  Imagine my surprise when I picked the HD800 over a number of electrostatics.
   
  --Mark


----------



## DefQon

The HD800's are about the closest headphone you can get to stat's.


----------



## Nordwestlicht

Quote: 





negura said:


> Alright - the HD800s are such a beast. In a great way.
> 
> A while ago I've built myself a badass copper cable with high-end wires, soldering and good connectors and I think I am right now clocking 150-200 hours on it. I swear it's transformed from when I first listened to it. It adds strong body, bass presence, musicality and a hint of warmth to my HD800s. The treble is still really well extended but actually my HD800s are now less sibilant prone than the LCD-3s. The latter is with silver cables.
> 
> ...


 
   
  First:
  Yeah! The HD800s are GREAT!!! My favorite and beloved headphones that I even like slightly better than the SR009 + T2 combi (I had the chance to compare both), because the HD800 sounds more "rough" and with a different spacious feeling and does not have those electrostatic smooth highs of the SR009. I like this very much, but I think I could live happily ever after with the SR009, too... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Second:
  Yeah, yeah... I've bought some decent wings for my grandma and I swear she can fly now...
  Cable-sound is pure imagination* or* results from a different resistor.
  There is no better and no worse. It's only a waste of $$$ if you buy it for irrational amounts of money.
  Haptics can be a good reason to buy another cable, but the HD800 cable is just fine, I think.
  (Only the rubber on the connectors tends to brittle on some early HD800 units.)
   
  Third:
  The HD800 can easily be driven by the most amps out there.
  There is simply no need for an expansive amp!
  Here again it's mainly the output impedance which makes the difference.
  (Tube amps is a different story, but why should I use a 'colored' and often technical inferior unit to drive such a great headphone?)
   
*It's all a matter of personal taste, naturally. Don't forget this. There is no all-embracing HD800-catharsis, that you can achieve by using this or that cable or amp for it.*
   
  I even don't like the suggested (Anax) modifications on my HD800.
   
  I've modified my HD800 with some felt and mahogany, but I don't know whether this makes an audible difference at all, compared to the 'raw' HD800.
   
  People, don't fool yourself.
   
*The most complex part you listen music with is your brain... and this always fools you, try be aware of it. *
  This 'body part' even invents an invisible man in the up in the sky...
   
  That's the way the things are (at least for me).
  The HD800 needs no extra cable and no expansive amp, because it simply does not *improve *its sound by using it.
   
My personal taste says:
   
  I like the HD800 best out of a decent solid state amp with (nearly) zero ohms output impedance, but I fully understand that some (/many?) of you see/hear the things in a different way.
   
  Suum cuique.
   
*And I also think, that the HD800s are truly the best headphones out there... having heard >100 headphones from mediocre to 'high-end'.*
   
  Probably my brain was 'designed' _(no, I'm an atheist and no stupid creationist)_ for the HD800 or vice versa...
   
  A friend in the German Hifi-Forum once said to/about me:_ "Offenbar wurde der HD800 speziell auf Dich abgestimmt. Gib es zu, Du bist das uneheliche Kind von Axel Grell."_
  That's a very good point...


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> It is impossible to have a blind test with those 4 headphones as they fit VERY differently. Only the 650 and Orpheus are somewhat similar, but still different. It would be instantly obvious which you were wearing. That test is a farce.


 
  +1
   
  Imagine.. One moment you're feeling a very light and airy cushion on each side of your head. Next moment your face is being clasped with what feels like a male Mountain Gorilla with sweaty palms .... Mmmm wonder which ones these are??


----------



## Asr

Quote: 





defqon said:


> It is isn't it. Certainly not the best out there obviously, but the synergy between the two is really good. A bigger advantage with the Phonitor of having possibly the best built-in crossfeed system if needed. Project86 did a review on the Auditor which retails for $999 but sells for average $650-750 on ebay and other outlets and he did mention the guts are identical minus the crossfeed + vu meters of the Phonitor, if actually true than for the price the Auditor + HD800 is a very very very good start. And I don't usually highly praise products here.


 
   
  I happened to open this thread and have to dissent that the Auditor is a good amp for the HD800. That amp was probably one of the worst ones that I heard with the HD800 back when I owned the HD800. First, the specs of the Auditor/Phonitor are a mismatch for the HD800's specs. The Auditor/Phonitor ideally drives 600 Ohm headphones - i.e., which is a trait of Beyerdynamic headphones more than Sennheiser headphones. And as I expected, the Beyerdynamic T1 (as one example) did sound very good on the Auditor - which was a pairing that I'd definitely say had synergy. The Auditor/HD800, on the other hand, bore out contrasting results and the HD800 ended up sounding under-driven by the Auditor (weak bass & mid-range). To anyone who honestly thinks the HD800 sounds good on the Auditor, I'd have to recommend listening to other amps that actually drive it properly. Not that I'd call the B22 a great amp for the HD800 either though - I had that combo too for a while and didn't think it was the best pairing. Out of all the amps I heard with the HD800, the best ones I found were the Luxman P-1u and HeadAmp GS-X (MK1), each for different reasons. As far as solid-state at least, anyway. I found the HD800 to generally sound better on tube amps and the best tube amp I heard it with was the Eddie Current Zana Deux.
   
  As for the recent post on the HD800 vs stats, I'd have to dissent with that as well. While I'd concede that maybe the HD800 has some loose similarities to the SR-009 amped by the HeadAmp BHSE, I'd honestly have to call the HD800 a joke compared to either the OII MKI or SR-009 on the BHSE and would never consider them remotely close to the Stax, and that's being generous. I used to think the Audeze LCD-2 sounded closer to the Stax, until I acquired the Fostex TH900, which gets even closer IMO.


----------



## EraserXIV

nordwestlicht said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Appreciate your impressions, but I don't think this is the place to bring up religion. Seems like the express train to get a thread derailed and locked.

Back to the HD800s


----------



## EraserXIV

Quote: 





asr said:


> I found the HD800 to generally sound better on tube amps and the best tube amp I heard it with was the Eddie Current Zana Deux.


 
   
  I've always wanted to hear an Eddie Current, have only heard good things about them.. maybe one of these days..


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





asr said:


> The HD800 ended up sounding under-driven by the Auditor (weak bass & mid-range).


 
   
  I also found the HD800 to sound thin and shrill out of the Phonitor.  At the time my GS-1 was the better pairing.  This was when all my headphones and amps was SE.  When switched to a all balanced audio chain.  The HD800 was one of the few headphones that showed benefits of the balanced config.  That's when the B22 took it a notch up for me.  Now the GS-X mkII has taken it up another notch on top of that.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





asr said:


> *.... until I acquired the Fostex TH900, which gets even closer IMO.*


 
  Oh yeah I forgot, you never thought much of the HD800 anyway. Oh well..../un-subscribed.


----------



## hekeli

Stax are V-shaped with slamming bass? No wonder people are confused here with everyones opinions.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





nordwestlicht said:


> Second:
> Yeah, yeah... I've bought some decent wings for my grandma and I swear she can fly now...
> Cable-sound is pure imagination* or* results from a different resistor.
> There is no better and no worse. It's only a waste of $$$ if you buy it for irrational amounts of money.
> ...


 
   
  I agree with most of the rest, but this. One of the reasons I am posting is to share findings and impressions and try to help folks out, thus I have to be clear here. A cable out of very good materials brings a noticable difference and improvements and no it's not pure imagination. I feel very confident I have explored this at length and I don't have any doubts on what I am hearing. And since you mentioned Axel Grell he's had similar findings at the last meet in London. He's quite qualified at this, I think. I do respect preferences and this is why there are choices of cable materials, and yes, they do sound different from each other. Every upscale material/cable I've compared to the stock cable, wipes the floor with the stock cable. However if one has heard a good high-end cable and doesn't hear the differences, then great, I understand that too, you won't need to invest in any cables. But the majority of us do hear it. From all the people I have seen undertaking this exercise at the last meet, there was not one who didn't hear a noticeable difference and improvements, including sceptics.
   
  I do agree about the part mentioning irrational costs with the usual caveat that there is/may be a lot of snake oil out there. There are many who will sell low end SPC crap for insane amounts, or not even disclose the choice of materials that go into their uber expensive cables. Many times there's a reason to hide it.  I am basing a lot of this on Toxic Cables, and DIY cables I've made out of verified materials and those have been top notch and surpassing my expectations.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> 1700 dollar budget for DAC+Amp, what should I go for?


 
   
  Burson Conductor


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





nordwestlicht said:


> There is simply no need for an expansive amp!


 
   
  True.  The HeadAmp Lite is a great amp for the HD800 but that doesn't make other cheap amps good choices.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





nordwestlicht said:


> A friend in the German Hifi-Forum once said to/about me:_ "Offenbar wurde der HD800 speziell auf Dich abgestimmt. Gib es zu, Du bist das uneheliche Kind von Axel Grell."_
> That's a very good point...


 
  Axel has a very large family...


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> +1
> 
> Imagine.. One moment you're feeling a very light and airy cushion on each side of your head. Next moment your face is being clasped with what feels like a male Mountain Gorilla with sweaty palms .... Mmmm wonder which ones these are??


 
  Well, uchihaitachi didn't provide much detail regarding his test , but a counter argument, is that the testers changed their mind after a "sighted test".
  And I imagine that not everyone are geeks, regarding headphones.
   
  There was an other test I've seen elsewhere, where they concluded "Most preferred headphone in sound quality is the least preferred in comfort".
  Yeah, it was easy to guess which one:  http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-relationship-between-perception-and.html


----------



## magiccabbage

can any of ye experienced hd 800 owners tell me if you prefer the wa6 le or wa2 with the hd 800. looking back a bit on the thread a bit there seems to be a bit more sway towards wa6le? but maybe im wrong?


----------



## Taliesin

Has anyone here tried the Beyerdynamic headzone amp?


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> Has anyone here tried the Beyerdynamic headzone amp?


 
  bringing up beyerdynamic on this thread can be emotional at times 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 -


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i enjoy both with HD 800, but the WA6-SE is picky with tubes and hd 800, pick the wrong ones and they will be bright with a grainy/edgy treble.


----------



## rgs9200m

deleted(duplicate by mistake)


----------



## rgs9200m

I heard the HD800 at a number of shows/exhibitions and the sound I heard was generally OK but had various flaws but with my Pinnacle the sound
  is just off-the-charts great to me. I had the Luxman P1U which was good but didn't come close to the silky-but-detailed texture and well-integrated tuneful bass 
  that the Pinnacle does with the 800s. (I did have to do some tube-rolling of the 6NS7 to get to this level though.)


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

What are some good dacs that pair with the WA2?


----------



## rgs9200m

Just to add to my comment just above about the HD800s, my Stax 009s (w/Stax 007t-ii amp) have even more texture, more detail, more speed, more insight, and are more compelling,
  but at the cost of some less relaxing lower treble (that is VERY dependent on the particular CD or even track), and for the most thrilling headphone sound ever,
  the Stax 009s are the best. I wouldn't be without either of these phones.
  [The Staxes are driven from the same source and the amp uses the same type of interconnects as the Pinnacle.]


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> can any of ye experienced hd 800 owners tell me if you prefer the wa6 le or wa2 with the hd 800. looking back a bit on the thread a bit there seems to be a bit more sway towards wa6le? but maybe im wrong?


 
   a bit a bit a bit - i must of still been drunk when i wrote that.!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> a bit a bit a bit - i must of still been drunk when i wrote that.!


 
  Just a bit


----------



## MickeyVee

Well, my HD700 are sold and I just ordered a pair of HD800.  Long story but it may take a few weeks.  Looking forward to it!


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Well, my HD700 are sold and I just ordered a pair of HD800.  Long story but it may take a few weeks.  Looking forward to it!


 
   
  Did you go colorware?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Well, my HD700 are sold and I just ordered a pair of HD800.  Long story but it may take a few weeks.  Looking forward to it!


----------



## MickeyVee

No.. just using my inside retail connections. Wish I could do the Colorware black/cranberry but cross border orders are a PIA.
  Quote: 





preproman said:


> Did you go colorwear?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Well, my HD700 are sold and I just ordered a pair of HD800.  Long story but it may take a few weeks.  Looking forward to it!


 
  It is worth the wait MV!


----------



## BournePerfect

The Leviathan is no longer a 7K amp...prob much less at this juncture. I shouldn't say more until it materializes further....
-Daniel


----------



## MorbidToaster

bourneperfect said:


> The Leviathan is no longer a 7K amp...prob much less at this juncture. I shouldn't say more until it materializes further....
> -Daniel




Oh right...the Moth to the flame is a different amp now... :rolleyes:

Edit: Levi will still be quite expensive though.


----------



## BournePerfect

Aren't you in on it now, MT?

-Daniel


----------



## MorbidToaster

bourneperfect said:


> Aren't you in on it now, MT?
> 
> -Daniel




Maybe but there seems like there hasn't been an update in awhile.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Guys I think I am going to go wither either the WA2 Or WA6-SE for my HD800 setup. DAC wise I only need USB, I have no use for optical or coax since I am using a computer setup and I won't be connecting a CD transport or anything. Should I just go with something like an ODAC? Any recommendations?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Guys I think I am going to go wither either the WA2 Or WA6-SE for my HD800 setup. DAC wise I only need USB, I have no use for optical or coax since I am using a computer setup and I won't be connecting a CD transport or anything. Should I just go with something like an ODAC? Any recommendations?


 
  If you are set on going for usb only then try and make sure you get a dac with a asynchronous usb input. Normal usb inputs can give you jitter and are mostly limited to 16bit 44hz. Don't want to go down the bit war arguments.. but newer dacs have asynchronous usb implementation for a reason. It will clock the data received so that you get a bit perfect signal before it reaches the dac stage. 
   
  Also, there are plenty of usb to spdif converters on the market at the moment and I would recommend using one of those if you are using computer as source then you can feed the dac through the coaxial input (this is generally considered the best input). This will also give you the flexibility of using any dac. 
   
  Also, if you are on a budget then yes an odac will do you for now. But I would highly recommend upgrading asap as the HD800's will show it for what it is. A budget dac. Your source is as important as your amp and so try and find something equal to your Woo. Maybe a Bitfrost. 
   
  I can highly recommend the Vdac mkII as a quality alternative and it plays well with the HD800's. It has asynchronous usb and can easily compete with any mid price dac that I have heard.
   
  Good luck


----------



## FlySweep

Can anyone comment on how the Bifrost w/ the "Uber Analog" upgrade sounds with the HD800?  I'd plan on using the Bifrost's optical input so I'm not as concerned with the "USB Gen 2" upgrade (though impressions there are certainly welcome).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

woo audio 2 !!!!


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> Can anyone comment on how the Bifrost w/ the "Uber Analog" upgrade sounds with the HD800?  I'd plan on using the Bifrost's optical input so I'm not as concerned with the "USB Gen 2" upgrade (though impressions there are certainly welcome).


 
   
  I can't comment on the Uber, safe to assume it's better than stock, but the real gem of the Gung is the digital input section.  Give you a hint, PWD2 Digital Lens, for several thousands less


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *Solude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I can't comment on the Uber, safe to assume it's better than stock, *but the real gem of the Gung is the digital input section.  Give you a hint, PWD2 Digital Lens, for several thousands less *


 
   
  Very intriguing.. I've typically (almost always) had better results with optical and coax connections on DACs vs USB.. even on a nice until like the V800.  So an improved USB section on the Bifrost would certainly be something I'd invest in if its worth it.  I planned on using the Meridian Explorer as a USB-to-SPDIF converter (to feed the Bifrost), but if the USB on the Bifrost delivers, it's one less thing to have to hook up.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## MickeyVee

Here's the thread on the Uber Upgrade. I did the upgrade last night and the difference was immediately noticeable.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/661444/schiit-bifrost-uber-analog-upgrade
  I cant specifically talk to the HD800... yet... but with the HE-500 the bass tightened up, better extension across the spectrum and smoother mids and highs with less grain. I'm suspecting that I'm getting more detail also but it's hard to tell. It seems a little brighter but that may be due to the upper end extension/detail. Need to spend some more time with it.
  I didn't do the Gen2 USB upgrade. I do have both USB and optical hooked up with my MacMini but it's really hard to tell the difference. Maybe when I get the HD800...
  Hope this helps, M
  Quote: 





flysweep said:


> Can anyone comment on how the Bifrost w/ the "Uber Analog" upgrade sounds with the HD800?  I'd plan on using the Bifrost's optical input so I'm not as concerned with the "USB Gen 2" upgrade (though impressions there are certainly welcome).


----------



## Solude

Sorry mean the digital input (toslink/coax/usb) not the USB card itself.  I also run toslink because with very few exceptions electric connections to the PC are noisy.


----------



## palmfish

I think a well designed input, whether USB, Coax, or Optical will sound equally good. I personally would rather use the input I have rather than use a converter in the chain.


----------



## paradoxper

Funny because you have soo many people who claim toslink is completely flawed or that USB isn't good enough without a converter.
   
  Personally, I've heard optical and USB sound no different. That's from a Bifrost, Gungnir, M51 and PWD MKII.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Funny because you have soo many people who claim toslink is completely flawed or that USB isn't good enough without a converter.
> 
> Personally, I've heard optical and USB sound no different. That's from a Bifrost, Gungnir, M51 and PWD MKII.


 
   
  I agree with this, sound wise I hear no different. The only thing I notice is with USB you can hear computer noise at very high volumes. (from hard drives, graphics cards and other USB devices.)


----------



## Solude

There is some truth to that.  Toslink at 24/96 is approaching failure.  In fact I have some 'prosumer' cards that the PWD2 can't lock on to at 24/96.  Others are fine.  USB is an implementation thing.  Many manufacturers, PWD2 included, use great chips, great clocks, solid drivers... and then go full retard and forget to isolate it or cut the power feed entirely.  Which inserts among other things... ground loops.  You'd be really hard pressed to hear them on full sized headphones or low gain but plug in an IEM, crank it up and yep... background hum.  You go toslink and poof dead silence.  I think that's where the love for external boxes comes from.  They tend, note tend, to be more well thought out and not just a throw in.  Now the good news for me is the PWD2 literally throws out the incoming signal timing and reclocks it so the higher jitter on the toslink doesn't really matter.  Certainly not enough to go back to the USB that I know has a background ground loop hum


----------



## negura

Quote: 





solude said:


> There is some truth to that.  Toslink at 24/96 is approaching failure.  In fact I have some 'prosumer' cards that the PWD2 can't lock on to at 24/96.  Others are fine.  USB is an implementation thing.  Many manufacturers, PWD2 included, use great chips, great clocks, solid drivers... and then go full retard and forget to isolate it or cut the power feed entirely.  Which inserts among other things... ground loops.  You'd be really hard pressed to hear them on full sized headphones or low gain but plug in an IEM, crank it up and yep... background hum.  You go toslink and poof dead silence.  I think that's where the love for external boxes comes from.  They tend, note tend, to be more well thought out and not just a throw in.  Now the good news for me is the PWD2 literally throws out the incoming signal timing and reclocks it so the higher jitter on the toslink doesn't really matter.  Certainly not enough to go back to the USB that I know has a background ground loop hum


 
   
  Ditto. Supposedly the Burson Conductor has the USB power cut-off and still gets obliterated by a good interface. Heck even some peanuts cheap stuff like IFI IUSB made a difference... More companies should figure out by now that if they can't get it right, maybe they should just license technology from the likes of Audiophilleo, M2Tech etc... Some like Naim and some others have already done just that. Pity the rest of their product still has some catch-up to do.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Funny because you have soo many people who claim toslink is completely flawed or that USB isn't good enough without a converter.
> 
> Personally, I've heard optical and USB sound no different. That's from a Bifrost, Gungnir, M51 and PWD MKII.


 
  I've also had people who tell me optical is the best  I think before when usb was still a new thing for audio there was some superiority but now if done correctly it can be hard if not impossible to tell the difference.


----------



## Maxvla

Have a hard time believing Solude about locking on optical at 24/96. My Bifrost and Gungnir never had a problem even with my onboard spdif.


----------



## technica18

More impressions of the bifrost uber with the HD800 would be nice. I won't bite until I know it won't be brighter.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Funny because you have soo many people who claim toslink is completely flawed or that USB isn't good enough without a converter.
> 
> Personally, I've heard optical and USB sound no different. That's from a Bifrost, Gungnir, M51 and PWD MKII.


 
  +1...I am confused by the impressions finding these big differences.


----------



## dleblanc343

A bit off topic but I just read and old post on the LCD3 thread from our good poster Solude: "Conversely there isn't an amp on the planet that would make me an HD800 fan "

Boy can oneself trick their own mind sometimes! I remember when I got my LCD3, I was stunned that it underwhelmed me vs my HE6 and HD800.

It's safe to say that once your system is configured, the HD800's are the non-Stax headphone to beat


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> A bit off topic but I just read and old post on the LCD3 thread from our good poster Solude: "Conversely there isn't an amp on the planet that would make me an HD800 fan
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  +1 to that!


----------



## gords

Hypothetically speaking, do you think it's realistic that Sennheiser will release the hd800 successor within the next 2-3 years or would it be longer?


----------



## hekeli

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> +1...I am confused by the impressions finding these big differences.


 
   
  Aren't you a head-fi savant? Isn't it normal to notice immediate differences even days or weeks later without A/B? We are special people.


----------



## preproman

***** Separate Linear Power Supplies*****
   
  Call me crazy but - I try to put one on everything.  I have two on my PC.  One for the PC and one for the SOtM USB card (This card gets no power from the mobo).  I have one on my USB converter.  I also like separate PSUs for my amps.  Hell, I would like it if DACs offer that as well.  You can add one to that ExaSound E20 if you want.


----------



## LugBug1

Regarding the usb/optical or spdif converter business. If you have optical output on your computer then happy days. But it also depends how powerful your computer is as to how it copes with delivering the data. And there may well be no discernible differences at all using these two methods. As far as USB or using an spdif converter goes, I hear a big (as far as audiophile terms go) difference. But not in a change of the frequencies. By that I mean you aren't going to get deeper bass or brighter treble, because if its not there in the first place... What I do notice, is no jitter. This can sound as big as clicks, pops when the computer is doing lots of tasks. Or as little as congestion in complex passages. If all of the re-clocking is done outside of the computer then there is no fear of it being disrupted by Internet etc. Also, adding another component into the chain for this purpose is fine because data hasn't reached the dac yet. Adding components after the dac is where the sound will begin to degrade. 
   

   
  Yes. I'm an expert at sounding like I'm an expert 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Oh, and none of the above will matter if you aren't using a headphone as good as the HD800's


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *MickeyVee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Here's the thread on the Uber Upgrade. I did the upgrade last night and the difference was immediately noticeable.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/661444/schiit-bifrost-uber-analog-upgrade
> ...


 
   
  Thank you.. glad to see the uber upgrade made a distinguishable difference for you.  Looking forward to seeing how you like it when the HD800 arrives.  If you've had some experience with other DACs, some general performance comparisons of them vs the Bifrost-Uber would be appreciated, too.



palmfish said:


> I think a well designed input, whether USB, Coax, or Optical will sound equally good. I personally would rather use the input I have rather than use a converter in the chain.


 
   
  Agreed.  I'd rather just go with USB for the sake of simplicity (and lack of clutter).. if the implementation was solid.



paradoxper said:


> Funny because you have soo many people who claim toslink is completely flawed or that USB isn't good enough without a converter.
> 
> Personally, I've heard optical and USB sound no different. That's from a Bifrost, Gungnir, M51 and PWD MKII.


 
   
  Personally, I've never had a problem with toslink or coax (as far as finding one 'flawed' vs the other).  Most of the USB implementations I've heard (admittedly, in "mid-fi" territory) have been good as far as reliability, but in a few cases, I've found coax/optical to sound noticeably better (the Leckerton UHA-6S MKII being one of the best examples).  The TubeDAC-11 is antoehr that seems to have a marginally better coax/optical input vs the USB.  I never found the USB inputs on these devices to be substandard or performing poorly, just that the coax/optical inputs yielded _slightly_ better sound.  I'm using the Izmo M1 as a DDC (project86 reviewed it for IF and said it compared quite favorably to the Stello U3) with the V800.  The V800's usb input is great.. but it's optical sounds a bit more spacious and clear.


----------



## preproman

I never heard the V800s USB.  However, I think it's adaptive oppose to asynchronous.  Not saying it's not good.  Just saying it's a little older technology.


----------



## MayaTlab

I own the V800 and an Anedio U2. I believe there is an improvement using the U2, although I haven't blind tested it, mostly in terms of dynamic, spatial clues, perhaps "fluidity" (think in terms of liquid / grainy). It doesn't seem massive, but at this level little improvements add up to make for fairly important ones.
  As an illustration of the difference, let's say that direct to USB I prefer my DA11 to the V800, but with both connected via the Anedio I prefer the V800.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Have a hard time believing Solude about locking on optical at 24/96. My Bifrost and Gungnir never had a problem even with my onboard spdif.


 
   
  Onboard is what I use right now.  It was the EMU 1212m PCI and X-Fi Titanium PCIe that wouldn't lock at 24/96.  I thought I had a dud cable until I tried the onboard.  That same EMU could connect to the Metrum and W4S though.  It could be that the PWD2 has a tighter spec for input.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> A bit off topic but I just read and old post on the LCD3 thread from our good poster Solude: "Conversely there isn't an amp on the planet that would make me an HD800 fan
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The bigger joke is that trying the HD800 a third time only happened because the price was about to jump.  My inner voice said don't bother, Jan said don't bother, my wife... well she always says no   On the B22/Stello... crap, W4S/Peak... crap, PWD2/Soloist|GS-X mk2... bloody awesome!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





hekeli said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





  Yes.....Then I wake up!


----------



## jackskelly

Quote: 





gords said:


> Hypothetically speaking, do you think it's realistic that Sennheiser will release the hd800 successor within the next 2-3 years or would it be longer?


 
   
  I imagine they will keep producing the HD800 well past 2 to 3 years from now. There's still such a high demand and profit to be made from the HD800. The HD650 was their previous flagship and they still continue to produce it, and it came out around 10 years ago. There were rumors of Sennheiser creating another electrostatic headphone, to compete with the likes of Stax, but I haven't heard very much about it. Surely Sennheiser will eventually come out with something to out-do the HD800. With competition from Audez'e, Stax, HifiMan and others to create super top of the line headphones it's now apart of the business.


----------



## rawrster

The HD800 has only been out for 4.5 years or so. The HD650 and HD800 was 6 years apart or so afaik so there probably won't be anything from Sennheiser soon.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





solude said:


> The bigger joke is that trying the HD800 a third time only happened because the price was about to jump.  My inner voice said don't bother, Jan said don't bother, my wife... well she always says no   On the B22/Stello... crap, W4S/Peak... crap, PWD2/Soloist|GS-X mk2... bloody awesome!


 
  I was lucky to have had the DNA Sonett the first time I heard the HD800. It was love at first listen. that goes to show, the hd 800 sound pretty good on much much less expensive gear as well. I have recently rediscovered (in a sense) my Dliii->DNA Sonett for HD800 when I brought it home from the office, put it in my bedroom and started doing critical listening while (trying to) falling asleep with lights off. What a nice set up to be had. The Sonett is def a jam for the price.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Any soloist + hd800 users here? If so whats your opinion?


----------



## Solude

Best combo under $1000 I've heard.  Actually one of only two amps I like the HD800 with.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Any soloist + hd800 users here? If so whats your opinion?


 
   
  I am still impressed every day since the day I got my HD800s  (w. Conductor). Whenever you hear *any* real instruments on a good recording, it's showstopping.


----------



## technica18

Soloist SL and HD800 sound amazing together. It's much better than the Lyr.


----------



## FlySweep

Does the Soloist+HD800 endorsement extend to the Soloist SL, as well?


----------



## jsgraha

Imo, Soloist is transparant amp. A few weeks back, I and my friend compared a few dacs using soloist and the difference of dacs were easy to be noticed (using both hd800 & lcd3). So if the source is good, soloist and hd800 is going to be very good as well.


----------



## retrophonic

Soloist + HD800 owner as well in need of a DAC, I'm considering the Schiitt Audio Gungnir or the Yulong Sabre D18, any suggestions?


----------



## magiccabbage

a new flagship from Sennheiser would be great for sure! - imagine a HD1000. i wonder if they would ever try a planar magnetic can?


----------



## Maxvla

Google Sennheiser HD1000 and then come back.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Google Sennheiser HD1000 and then come back.


 
  ha ha - i never new how old is that


----------



## rawrster

It was a good run but it seems I'm back to where I started. I've flirted with selling the HD800 (thankfully I came to my senses before doing so) along with having other headphones to go with it but I'll be back to just the HD800 very soon. There's just something about the HD800 that isn't there with other headphones.
   
  My HD800 with the Mjolnir and Buffalo is where I'm going to stay for a while. I just need to stop looking at whatever the current rage is and stop buying to try.


----------



## Maxvla

Good combo rawrster. I think I'm in a similar position. Once the GS-X2 comes I'm good to go.


----------



## technica18

Is the headband stretchable, like the HD600 or LCD-2, to reduce clamping? It's a bit tight for me and after half an hour it really starts to get irritating. I'm afraid to bend it cause it looks like all plastic on top. If all else fails I suppose I can add some more padding on the top so that I can extend the cups even more.


----------



## Maxvla

??? My HD800s have almost zero clamp. I have to be careful looking down or they will fall off. You might be able to bend the metal part of the headband, but I've never run across anyone who's felt much of any clamp from HD800s.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> It was a good run but it seems I'm back to where I started. I've flirted with selling the HD800 (thankfully I came to my senses before doing so) along with having other headphones to go with it but I'll be back to just the HD800 very soon. There's just something about the HD800 that isn't there with other headphones.
> 
> My HD800 with the Mjolnir and Buffalo is where I'm going to stay for a while. I just need to stop looking at whatever the current rage is and stop buying to try.


 
  Plan a Dynahi. This way you can rebuy the HE-6.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Plan a Dynahi. This way you can rebuy the HE-6.


 
   
  LOL
   
  I haven't sold the HE6.._yet _ Once it's sold which won't be too long now hopefully I'll buy an O2 most likely.


----------



## retrophonic

Ok, thanks for the input, the Gungnir it is.


----------



## wink

Followed by the NAD M51, Lamprizator 5, Esoteric K07, then the dcs Vivaldi.
   
  Say goodbye to your wallet and bank balance now.


----------



## palmfish

I tried my 800's through quite a number of amp and DAC combinations now and I just have to say that all the talk here about synergy and this pairs better than that just goes right over my head.

While I do notice some differences from component to component, the differences I hear are small and usually not very significant - more a matter of subjective taste than one being better than another.

For example, at the last meet where I sampled the new Bottlehead DAC, I did find it to be a little warmer sounding than my DAC1, but it wasnt any better. And the Coffman Labs amp was noticeably brighter sounding than the ECBA, but not worse sounding. 

I suppose it's the hobby part of this that makes it fun to play with the last 1% of the sound, but I dont have good enough hearing or the time and money to constantly buy and sell amps and DACs. For me, Tyll's version of the Anax mod made more change to my 800's than any amp/DAC ever has. Im writing this because I still find myself get caught up in the quest and tempted to try another amp or DAC to hear what others profess as an eye opening revelation. It gets hard sometimes to remind myself of the hyperbole here and reassure myself that if I purchase "amp X" or "DAC Y" I probably would not hear that big of a difference.


----------



## rgs9200m

I think a lot of headphones today are shaped for a more v-shaped head. 
  The HD800s can get a little tight on the bottom part of the cup because my head does not taper too much.
  They can be bent slightly outward (they are pretty sturdy I've found).


----------



## czqdtc

My new custom HD800 ordered from colorware finally arrived !!!
  Take a look:



   
  The serial number is 21929 so I suppose it is pretty new?


----------



## negura

Quote: 





czqdtc said:


> The serial number is 21929 so I suppose it is pretty new?


 
   
  Yes, that's a very recent serial. Very creative color scheme.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





czqdtc said:


> My new custom HD800 ordered from colorware finally arrived !!!
> Take a look:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Pretty cool..


----------



## KT66

I'd love to see someone wear those in public !


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





czqdtc said:


> My new custom HD800 ordered from colorware finally arrived !!!
> Take a look:


 
  Good for you for being original! Nice job. You'll have to paint your amp etc to match now


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





czqdtc said:


> My new custom HD800 ordered from colorware finally arrived !!!
> Take a look:


 
   
  I  love it. Is there a gradient on the orange paint, or it's just the light ?


----------



## Maxvla

Looks good, are they school colors or just a color set you like?


----------



## czqdtc

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I  love it. Is there a gradient on the orange paint, or it's just the light ?


 

 you can choose whether be at matte or glossy, glossy is just like any car paint if that helps. I chose all glossy : )


----------



## czqdtc

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Looks good, are they school colors or just a color set you like?


 

 I worked on the color combo for about 40 min and finally settled down on this one : ) Just some random stuff.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





czqdtc said:


> I worked on the color combo for about 40 min and finally settled down on this one : ) Just some random stuff.


 
  How you finding them? I see you also have K701. For me they are similar in signature only an improvement on all areas. Most notably in tonality and imaging.
   
  But for anyone looking to get near to the HD800 on a budget I'd recommend them.


----------



## magiccabbage

people should post pics of their custom colours there isn't enough around. anyone have all black??


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> people should post pics of their custom colours there isn't enough around. anyone have all black??


 
  Maxvla has,  Preproman also, one matt finish, one high gloss!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Maxvla has,  Preproman also, one matt finish, one high gloss!


 
  sound ill have a look ive seen preproman on here a bit


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Pretty cool..


 
  you have the black gloss finish - could you by any chance post some more pics of those i could only find two? they look amazing though


----------



## LugBug1

I'm sure he won't mind me posting this pic of his black beauties


----------



## LugBug1

and Maxvla's classic matt finish


----------



## magiccabbage

another question here - does anyone know where i could get a nice custom case for hd 800 - im thinking something like the t1 case


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I'm sure he won't mind me posting this pic of his black beauties


 
  the gloss is lovely - the nicest i have seen


----------



## preproman

Thanks Lug.   
   
  Just got back from the Star Trek movie.  Sorry for the delay..


----------



## Happy Camper

magiccabbage said:


> the gloss is lovely - the nicest i have seen


The pic don't do them justice.


----------



## brokenthumb

Quote: 





czqdtc said:


> My new custom HD800 ordered from colorware finally arrived !!!
> Take a look:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Reminds me of a c@ck I saw on the internet.
   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!






   
   
   





  Just kidding around, those look amazing!  Congrats!
   
   
  Edit: Crap, it edited out the word.  Oh well, you can guess by the picture what it was.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





brokenthumb said:


> Reminds me of a c@ck I saw on the internet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Wont loose them in a dark room at least...


----------



## Happy Camper

I did a ipod there 13 yrs ago. metallic burgundy and silver. They will chip and scratch so be careful.


----------



## Maxvla

That hasn't been our experience with HD800s through Colorware. If anything the Colorware paint is much more durable than the stock paint.


----------



## rawrster

Well it can't be less durable considering the HD800 is pretty famous for paint chips and such.


----------



## brokenthumb

Love your pair Maxvla, if I went back and ordered through Colorware I would have gone all matte black also.


----------



## MR22

I have to ask you guys, I've been using my set for a day and I keep getting headache's... this after moving from 590's that were comfy as from day one, any of you guys find them uncomfortable?


----------



## Solude

Headaches where?  Inside the head, bottom jaw area, top where the pads hit?


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





mr22 said:


> I have to ask you guys, I've been using my set for a day and I keep getting headache's... this after moving from 590's that were comfy as from day one, any of you guys find them uncomfortable?


 
  are we talking about the HD800? I cannot see how this HP can give anyone headaches due to mechanical pressure. Is that what you mean? or is it something about the frequency response in your system -- i.e. channel imbalance or piercing treble?


----------



## Solude

The only trouble I have with the HD800 is that gap in the headband padding.  It doesn't hurt or anything but it does leave me with an interesting imprint in the hair.  I would have preferred it either be a tall gap or continued.  The HD600/650 didn't do this.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





solude said:


> The only trouble I have with the HD800 is that gap in the headband padding.  It doesn't hurt or anything but it does leave me with an interesting imprint in the hair.  I would have preferred it either be a tall gap or continued.  The HD600/650 didn't do this.


 
  Yeah I noticed a imprint on my slaphead from the same thing. No where near as bad as the imprints left by the K701's bumps though... 
   
  I would say any headaches caused by a new HD800 will probably be attributed to the freq's and getting used to the linearity.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Yeah I noticed a imprint on my slaphead from the same thing. No where near as bad as the imprints left by the K701's bumps though...
> 
> I would say any headaches caused by a new HD800 will probably be attributed to the freq's and getting used to the linearity.


 
   they'll be fine i'm sure they are high fidelity headaches!


----------



## czqdtc

Both hd800/700 are as comfy as headphones can be IMO. This is one thing sennheiser destroys Audeze, AKG


----------



## Mambosenior

czqdtc said:


> Both hd800/700 are as comfy as headphones can be IMO. This is one thing sennheiser destroys Audeze, AKG



So true!


----------



## jackskelly

Does anyone know if Sennheiser or another company has released touch-up paint to help cover paint chips on the stock paint job? I guess I could try to match the paint at a place like Sherwin-Williams but I'm afraid I'll just make the headphones look worse if I try a DIY job like that.


----------



## Solude

Few pages back covered that.


----------



## MR22

yes, Mechanical pressure, Yes the HD800, mostly how it hits my Jaw and a little how they sit on my temple, kind of feels like a mix of the weight and clamping pressure, maybe enough time will make it go away


----------



## Solude

Move the sliders up or down to get them off your pressure points.


----------



## MR22

Quote: 





solude said:


> Move the sliders up or down to get them off your pressure points.


 
  I've spent a lot of time fiddling, haven't quite got the right setting yet, will keep playing though!


----------



## jackskelly

I saw the Houston Symphony's version of Mahler's 2nd syphony, his "Ressurection" Symphony, yesterday. It was a great experience.


----------



## esn89

anyone here have the anax mod pdf?  the one in innerfidelity seems to be down.


----------



## anton2dan

Sent you a PM with the PDF.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





mr22 said:


> I've spent a lot of time fiddling, haven't quite got the right setting yet, will keep playing though!


 
  I am so sorry to hear that. They literally fall off my head if I move around too abruptly or bend down for more than a sec. They disappear on my head when I wear them. I wonder if you have gotten a defective pair. Have you tired other pairs of the HD800?


----------



## RIQUE

Does any body have the HD800 wired for Balanced XLR and hooked up to amp output? any pictures will be appreciated. I swear by XLR.


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





rique said:


> Does any body have the HD800 wired for Balanced XLR and hooked up to amp output? any pictures will be appreciated. I swear by XLR.


 
  I swear by uranium nuclear-reactor-core cable amplifiers, the nuclear reactor multiplies the electrons which causes a fuller and amplified sound. Volume control is done by shortening a bit of the cable in the amplifier itself. The extreme decay and deadly gamma rays also prevent interference from reaching the audio signal. I hand-craft these cable amplifiers in my Russian bunker with a chemo suit.
  Availible now for a steal of $99,95 per cm!


----------



## BleaK




----------



## RIQUE

By what name should I get the cable plugs that fit into the HD800, I´ve decided to make my own Balanced cables inspite of some people making fun of me.


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





rique said:


> By what name should I get the cable plugs that fit into the HD800, I´ve decided to make my own Balanced cables inspite of some people making fun of me.


 

 If you mean the connectors in the headphones, I heard that you can order them from Sennheiser directly for a not very expensive price if you mail/call them.
  Other online stores (idk which ones) also sell the connectors for $50 a pair. They're "custom" fancyness so hard to get and overpriced.


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





rique said:


> By what name should I get the cable plugs that fit into the HD800, I´ve decided to make my own Balanced cables inspite of some people making fun of me.


 

 Or you could just chop off the ending of the HD800 stock cable and solder some XLR connectors on there. That's what Headroom does with their "BALANCED UPGRADE !@*^!@". But this way saves a lot of money and you get the same result! Have fun DIY-ing either way.


----------



## bearFNF

Here are some pics with my 'Q' French Silk.   I will not make any comment on sound differences as I have only had the Taboo MKIII for a few days and have not had a chance to A/B and wont until I have my set-up worked out.  As you can see in the photos it is a work in progress.  I will say that I really like how flexible the cable is.  My main reason for buying the French silk was that I wanted a balanced cable and a more flexible/ergonomic cable.
   
  Quote:


rique said:


> Does any body have the HD800 wired for Balanced XLR and hooked up to amp output? any pictures will be appreciated. I swear by XLR.


 


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!


 
  So each channel has it's own ground wire now. That's like having two toilets: one for peeing and one for pooping.
  And on top of that the stock cable is "balanced" on the inside, so the two ground wires only come together at the plug and I doubt they'll ever flow backwards 3 meters to cause crosstalk...
  But hey, it looks good and it feels nice!
   
  Edit: and don't lock this thread, just tell me to shut up instead if I'm causing "problems", thank you.
  The old thread got "mysteriously" locked when we started to talk about cables, I do not feel angry and/or annoyed when talking about this matter.
  So come with some arguments and/or say "opinions are different" or something else. Better not use admin powerzzz™ to lock threads and/or banhammer peoples.


----------



## Solude

Last thread didn't get killed over cables.  Cable talk is normal.  Let's just say it went political and leave it at that.
   
  By the way anyone who wonders why you want to go balanced can be ignored.  Be like insulting the Corvette owner for not running $80 all-seasons /facepalm


----------



## negura

Trolls this way --->
   
  No feeding here.


----------



## MR22

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> I am so sorry to hear that. They literally fall off my head if I move around too abruptly or bend down for more than a sec. They disappear on my head when I wear them. I wonder if you have gotten a defective pair. Have you tired other pairs of the HD800?


 
  You might be right on that, while the HD800's are a heavy headphone compared to the 590 yet they don't clamp particularly hard, I suspect it's the width of the surround hitting the wrong spots, funny that yours dissappear when you fit them, I have the issue with that with the 590's, quite often I would walk away from whatever I was listening to and have the detachable cord whip out of the phones!
   
  I do wonder if I have a fairly wide noggin and if that's the cause of my grief, oh well!


----------



## GSARider

Must admit I find the HD800's heavy for prolonged use, anything more than 30 mins at a timgives me a sore neck, but I do love the sound.


----------



## preproman

A sore neck from the HD800s  WOW....


----------



## negura

Quote: 





gsarider said:


> Must admit I find the HD800's heavy for prolonged use, anything more than 30 mins at a timgives me a sore neck, but I do love the sound.


 
   
  ... All I can say... don't try any planar headphones.  To me, it's the opposite with the HD800s. I keep forgetting they're on my head.


----------



## Solude

No kidding.  The orthos are weapons.  If you hit someone with an HD800, start running, while with an LCD-3... they're out cold


----------



## dleblanc343

I'm so tempted to get colorware now... Thinking of a combination of frost white gloss, black and maybe blue or red accents. First world problems.


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





negura said:


> Trolls this way --->
> 
> No feeding here.


 

 I looked out of my window but I didn't see a troll. Isn't a troll an imaginary creature anyway?


----------



## GSARider

preproman said:


> A sore neck from the HD800s  WOW....




For some reason I can ride all day with my main helmet, which is 1.6kg plus another 300g for the Bluetooth unit attached and also another 300g for my helmetcam with no problems. It might be to with the way I'm sitting in my study I guess.


----------



## MR22

Quote: 





gsarider said:


> For some reason I can ride all day with my main helmet, which is 1.6kg plus another 300g for the Bluetooth unit attached and also another 300g for my helmetcam with no problems. It might be to with the way I'm sitting in my study I guess.


 
  can I suggest you try some can's with a different shaped ear pad? the reversed tear drop of the 590's seems ideal for all I've loaned my old phones to, I have a theory it's the spots that the padding rests on and the 800 encompasses a lot more real-estate around the ear than most other/cheaper senni phone's
   
  maybe I should try fitting the HD800 driver into the HD590 housing  that would upset the masses!!!


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





melvinv said:


> I looked out of my window but I didn't see a troll. Isn't a troll an imaginary creature anyway?


 
  Oh, they're very real, and they live in your internet...   And if you take the time to feed them, they'll be happy to explain why Beats Studio are clearly superior headphones to the HD800...


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





jwahl said:


> Oh, they're very real, and they live in your internet...   And if you take the time to feed them, they'll be happy to explain why Beats Studio are clearly superior headphones to the HD800...


 
  Dubstep radio all the way, the clipping effect makes it sound so realistic man! Wubwubwub~
  I love earthquake simulators!


----------



## technica18

These would have definitely benefited from plusher and thicker pads. I don't know why they made the pads so thin.


----------



## MR22

Quote: 





technica18 said:


> These would have definitely benefited from plusher and thicker pads. *I don't know why they made the pads so thin.*


 
  VERY much so!


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





technica18 said:


> These would have definitely benefited from plusher and thicker pads. I don't know why they made the pads so thin.


 
  +1 although I think we are talking minor adjustments -- from my own experience. I wonder whether that would have impact on the sound?


----------



## MR22

a very good question also 
   
  I asked the rep if I could get better pads and he was not particularly helpful


----------



## Solude

Driver distance and pad wear absolutely affect results.  Even when the shape is similar but the material is changed, the freq resp is very different.  Ala HiFiMAN cans.


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

If I get an HD800, is there a reason to go with the Schiit Valhalla over the Schiit Lyr?


----------



## Solude

Yes, no, maybe?  I haven't heard either but really need to get my hands on an OTL amp one day.


----------



## telecaster




----------



## scolaiw

After being a longtime HD 650 user, today I have finally joined the HD 800 club.
 Initial, pre burnt-in impressions: WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO~


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> After being a longtime HD 650 user, today I have finally joined the HD 800 club.
> Initial, pre burnt-in impressions: WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO~


 
   
  Totally not surprised there, enjoy.


----------



## Solude

Anyone know of an OTL amp that doubles as a preamp AND disables the preout when headphones are in?  Manual switch or switched by the jack just as good.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> After being a longtime HD 650 user, today I have finally joined the HD 800 club.
> Initial, pre burnt-in impressions: WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO~


 
  Welcome to the club!...You are the new guy, where are the donuts?
   
  Seriously you are going to be very happy with them.


----------



## rawrster

That sounds like my impressions the first time I heard them although at meet conditions it was still very good 
   
  My HD800 stands alone right now as every other full sized I tried  having next to the HD800 wasn't as good to my ears.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> Anyone know of an OTL amp that doubles as a preamp AND disables the preout when headphones are in?  Manual switch or switched by the jack just as good.


 
   
   
  The itch is back...


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Welcome to the club!...You are the new guy, where are the donuts?
> 
> Seriously you are going to be very happy with them.


 
  Hot Jam (or Jelly; for all y'all Americans) donuts for everyone! 

 After a little more listening, I can say that it's just amazing treble extension that is often being mistaken as the apparent 'brightness' of the HD 800. In fact, I'm going to say that it does the entire frequency range so well. There's a finesse that is unexplainable. I love the bass of the LCD 2/3s and of course the smooth bass of the 650s, but I think I am redefining my definition of good bass the more I listen to the HD 800s. I know they aren't traditionally regarded as bass headphones but wow, the elegance. I'm going to shut my mouth now before I spurt off any more controversial statements and go back to the music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am so *very *happy right now.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





preproman said:


> The itch is back...


 
   
  Bucket list stuff I suppose.  Never heard an OTL amp or a modern HiFiMAN but more likely to go tube before doing more dead lifts with my head.


----------



## YoengJyh

Quote: 





solude said:


> Yes, no, maybe?  I haven't heard either but really need to get my hands on an OTL amp one day.


 
   
  Yeah, you should try EarMax Pro Silver Edition. Is an OTL amp.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> Hot Jam (or Jelly; for all y'all Americans) donuts for everyone!
> 
> After a little more listening, I can say that it's just amazing treble extension that is often being mistaken as the apparent 'brightness' of the HD 800. In fact, I'm going to say that it does the entire frequency range so well. There's a finesse that is unexplainable. I love the bass of the LCD 2/3s and of course the smooth bass of the 650s, but I think I am redefining my definition of good bass the more I listen to the HD 800s. I know they aren't traditionally regarded as bass headphones but wow, the elegance. I'm going to shut my mouth now before I spurt off any more controversial statements and go back to the music.
> 
> ...


 
   
  What in there was supposed to be controversial in an HD800 appreciation thread?  Regardless, I'm glad you're enjoying them.


----------



## Kojaku

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> Hot Jam (or Jelly; for all y'all Americans) donuts for everyone!
> 
> After a little more listening, I can say that it's just amazing treble extension that is often being mistaken as the apparent 'brightness' of the HD 800. In fact, I'm going to say that it does the entire frequency range so well. There's a finesse that is unexplainable. I love the bass of the LCD 2/3s and of course the smooth bass of the 650s, but I think I am redefining my definition of good bass the more I listen to the HD 800s. I know they aren't traditionally regarded as bass headphones but wow, the elegance. I'm going to shut my mouth now before I spurt off any more controversial statements and go back to the music.
> 
> ...


 
  Well I will say...there's a treble peak at 6.5k that makes sibilants sharper than neutral...but good amping and tube selection as well as Anax 2.0 really helped that.
   
  Kojaku


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> Hot Jam (or Jelly; for all y'all Americans) donuts for everyone!
> 
> After a little more listening, I can say that it's just amazing treble extension that is often being mistaken as the apparent 'brightness' of the HD 800. In fact, I'm going to say that it does the entire frequency range so well. There's a finesse that is unexplainable. I love the bass of the LCD 2/3s and of course the smooth bass of the 650s, but I think I am redefining my definition of good bass the more I listen to the HD 800s. I know they aren't traditionally regarded as bass headphones but wow, the elegance. I'm going to shut my mouth now before I spurt off any more controversial statements and go back to the music.
> 
> ...


 
   




   
  indeed, the bass presentation of the hd 800 is very special.


----------



## FlySweep

V200's opened up, smoothed out.. or something else.. whatever it is, it sounds distinguishably better now than it did early last week.  The V800/V200 combo is simply _sublime_.  I'm hearing the HD800 in all it's silky smooth glory.  Glad to have my solid state desktop rig decided on for the foreseeable future.. now, to add a tube amp.


----------



## skeptic

solude said:


> Anyone know of an OTL amp that doubles as a preamp AND disables the preout when headphones are in?  Manual switch or switched by the jack just as good.




Pretty sure this was true of my old woo 3, but I wouldn't recommend it with hd800.


----------



## brokenthumb

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> Hot Jam (or Jelly; for all y'all Americans) donuts for everyone!
> 
> After a little more listening, I can say that it's just amazing treble extension that is often being mistaken as the apparent 'brightness' of the HD 800. In fact, I'm going to say that it does the entire frequency range so well. There's a finesse that is unexplainable. I love the bass of the LCD 2/3s and of course the smooth bass of the 650s, but* I think I am redefining my definition of good bass the more I listen to the HD 800s*. I know they aren't traditionally regarded as bass headphones but wow, the elegance. I'm going to shut my mouth now before I spurt off any more controversial statements and go back to the music.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think the bass is the part I love most about the HD800.  The way it's presented amazes me every time I listen, it just sounds so right.


----------



## MickeyVee

You guys are killing me.  My HD800 are suppose to be in on Thursday so I'll be the new guy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Really looking forward to them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  In the mean time, enjoying my HE500 (did I really type this on the HD800 thread
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.. oops)


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> You guys are killing me.  My HD800 are suppose to be in on Thursday so I'll be the new guy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Git' a rope...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Heh, we'll forgive you this time...


----------



## anton2dan

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> You guys are killing me.  My HD800 are suppose to be in on Thursday so I'll be the new guy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I was in a similar position a week ago. Got my HD800s for a few days now and starting to like them more day by day. They are in a different class as compared to my HE-500s.
  The wait was well worth.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





anton2dan said:


> I was in a similar position a week ago. Got my HD800s for a few days now and starting to like them more day by day. They are in a different class as compared to my HE-500s.
> The wait was well worth.


 
   
  Welcome to the club bro. They will keep growing on you, and as you upgrade your downstream, they will keep rewarding you greatly. That's the other beautiful part.


----------



## anton2dan

Quote: 





negura said:


> Welcome to the club bro. They will keep growing on you, and as you upgrade your downstream, they will keep rewarding you greatly. That's the other beautiful part.


 
  Thanks. I'll sure be rewarding them too with a nice DAC soon. Still deciding on which one will go nice with the V200 though.


----------



## Kojaku

That's definitely one thing that I've noticed about the HD800s. They really put a magnifying glass on every little change you make to your chain. They're honestly a tube-roller's dream haha xD
   
  Kojaku


----------



## jackskelly

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> You guys are killing me.  My HD800 are suppose to be in on Thursday so I'll be the new guy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  After you have that taste, your thirst will only get larger. Stax, other TOTL headphones will be next. Once you hear something like HD 800s, there is no going back.


----------



## Maxvla

Or won't be next


----------



## MickeyVee

Heard the 007.. yes, very nice.  I've decided that I'm a one headphone guy (plus portable) so I'm going to build a _reasonable_ system around the HD800. Got a line on the Cardas Clear HD800 cable (3M) and if I can get a good price on it, I'm in. HE500 are already up for sale.
  At this point in my life, it's about simplicity so I'll try with the Schiit Stack or go for the Woo WA7.
  But this is HeadFi.. I keep posting and have been through the HD600, HD650, HD700 and the HE500 (plus HD25, vModa M80, SR80i) in the past two years... who am I kidding?
   
  I've actually finished off my main A/V system and am pretty happy with it.. Martin Logan, Rotel, Oppo, PS Audio (see the pics in my profile)._ I definitely want to get there with my HeadFi system._
   
  I'm hoping the HD800/Schiit stack or Woo WA7 will do it for me... but what did I say, this is HeadFi.. stay tuned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





jackskelly said:


> After you have that taste, your thirst will only get larger. Stax, other TOTL headphones will be next. Once you hear something like HD 800s, there is no going back.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





jackskelly said:


> After you have that taste, your thirst will only get larger. Stax, other TOTL headphones will be next. Once you hear something like HD 800s, there is no going back.


 
   
  That sounds like where I'm headed now


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Heard the 007.. yes, very nice.  I've decided that I'm a one headphone guy (plus portable) so I'm going to build a _reasonable_ system around the HD800. Got a line on the Cardas Clear HD800 cable (3M) and if I can get a good price on it, I'm in. HE500 are already up for sale.
> At this point in my life, it's about simplicity so I'll try with the Schiit Stack or go for the Woo WA7.
> But this is HeadFi.. I keep posting and have been through the HD600, HD650, HD700 and the HE500 (plus HD25, vModa M80, SR80i) in the past two years... who am I kidding?
> 
> ...


 
  I'm not sure the Cardas is the way to go for the HD800. I would try a more mellow cable with a solid bass like my Moon Audio Black Dragon (I use a 15-footer, so I can verify that it does well in 
  a longer length). I have never heard the Cardas with the HD800, but I'm not a fan of the Cardas with the HD600/650, which is too prominent in the upper mids, which is not what you want with the HD800s.


----------



## Mambosenior

Canare wire with a balanced 4-pin. Simply spectacular and also inexpensive (well, compared to the artsy offerings being bandied about here).

Despite some opinions to the contrary, the stock single-ended cable is damn good but doesn't have the bling factor, which could be the reason for much of the dismissive commentary.


----------



## Kojaku

Just thought some pics would be nice on this thread haha. Got my new stand in today:
   
   
   
   

   

   

   

   
  Kojaku


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Got a line on the Cardas Clear HD800 cable (3M) and if I can get a good price on it, I'm in.


 
   
  I'll echo what has been said.  If by good price you mean ~$300, have at it, otherwise you have better options.


----------



## MelvinV

I just lost my HD 800s for two weeks for "repairs" (it was loose when I got it already), I'm stuck with a $10 Logitech USB Trashset.
  Even listening to music is impossible now, I guess no music for two weeks! (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻


----------



## MickeyVee

Thanks all!  I have a Q cable on my HE500 which I absolutely love.  May just re-terminate with HD800 connectors which would be much cheaper.
  I was pretty happy with the stock cable on my HD700 and had no thoughts of replacing it.  May feel the same with the HD800. Since it will probably be my only full size headphone, yes, looking at blinging it out.
   
   
  Quote:


solude said:


> I'll echo what has been said.  If by good price you mean ~$300, have at it, otherwise you have better options.


----------



## NightFlight

melvinv said:


> I swear by uranium nuclear-reactor-core cable amplifiers, the nuclear reactor multiplies the electrons which causes a fuller and amplified sound. Volume control is done by shortening a bit of the cable in the amplifier itself. The extreme decay and deadly gamma rays also prevent interference from reaching the audio signal. I hand-craft these cable amplifiers in my Russian bunker with a chemo suit.
> Availible now for a steal of $99,95 per cm!





...retracted...


----------



## NightFlight

mickeyvee said:


> Here's the thread on the Uber Upgrade. I did the upgrade last night and the difference was immediately noticeable.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/661444/schiit-bifrost-uber-analog-upgrade
> I cant specifically talk to the HD800... yet... but with the HE-500 the bass tightened up, better extension across the spectrum and smoother mids and highs with less grain. I'm suspecting that I'm getting more detail also but it's hard to tell. It seems a little brighter but that may be due to the upper end extension/detail. Need to spend some more time with it.
> I didn't do the Gen2 USB upgrade. I do have both USB and optical hooked up with my MacMini but it's really hard to tell the difference. Maybe when I get the HD800...
> Hope this helps, M





I did my before/after tests with the 24/96 Rumors album. The recording has to have detail to really appreciate the detail in the uber upgrade. Boy does that album/recording have it in spades. You're going to love the 800s.


----------



## Shikarikato

Opinion on Bifrost Uber + Lyr for the HD800s? Nightflight I see that you happen to be running that, how's that working out for you? Also what tubes have you seemed to like the most for the Lyr?


----------



## czqdtc

I found HD800 with HM901 balanced amp module is quite viable as portable setup, really impressed by the juice inside this black box.
  The vintage mode just fits HD800's sound signature perfectly with add warmth in the mids and weight in the bass. First time I found HD800 to sound good with pop, vocal stuff.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nightflight said:


> I did my before/after tests with the 24/96 Rumors album. The recording has to have detail to really appreciate the detail in the uber upgrade. Boy does that album/recording have it in spades. You're going to love the 800s.




One of my favorites!


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> One of my favorites!


 
  dreams sounds absolutely mesmerizing on the HD800s


----------



## PinkLed

Quote: 





shikarikato said:


> Opinion on Bifrost Uber + Lyr for the HD800s? Nightflight I see that you happen to be running that, how's that working out for you? Also what tubes have you seemed to like the most for the Lyr?


 
  I just purchased the HD800, its on the way. I also have an uber board on the way for my Bifrost. Looking forward to posting my results within a few weeks. I'll let you know how everything turns out. Although Dubstep Girl did tell me that they will take 800+ hours of burn in time (thanks for that info by the way), so it might be a while before I can get a true impression on them. Also note that my tubes are not stock so I may get different results than others.


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> I just purchased the HD800, its on the way. I also have an uber board on the way for my Bifrost. Looking forward to posting my results within a few weeks. I'll let you know how everything turns out. Although Dubstep Girl did tell me that they will take 800+ hours of burn in time (thanks for that info by the way), so it might be a while before I can get a true impression on them. Also note that my tubes are not stock so I may get different results than others.


 

 I love how you are so enthusiastic that the HD 800 and Bifrost have already manged to make their way into your signature before they've physically arrived at your door. Although in your defense, I suppose you've already paid the money for them. Either way, I do hope you will enjoy your new headphones! The HD 800 is truly a dream to listen to when paired with will recorded music.


----------



## PinkLed

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> I love how you are so enthusiastic that the HD 800 and Bifrost have already manged to make their way into your signature before they've physically arrived at your door. Although in your defense, I suppose you've already paid the money for them. Either way, I do hope you will enjoy your new headphones! The HD 800 is truly a dream to listen to when paired with will recorded music.


 
  I have had the Bifrost for some time, just without the UBER pcb. Im sure it will require some burn in however. The HD800 should arrive tomorrow (amazon prime 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), the uber just got off backorder so probably another week. I will try and do a breakdown of every 50 to 100 hours and my impressions. Im just hoping the Lyr is high end enough to really bring out the HD800's full potential like so many have been saying.


----------



## MickeyVee

Just picked up my HD800 at lunch time and they're sitting beside me on my desk at work.  Can't wait to get home to try them out.
  I have the Bifrost Uber and the Lyr with Amerex Orange Globe tubes (have some Bugle Boys en route). I heard the HD800 at the local Toronto HeadFi (May 4) on my system and was blown away. My HD700 and HE500 went up for sale the next day.  Not sure the Schiit Stack will drive them to their _full_ potential but is sure is quite nice!
   
  Quote:


pinkled said:


> I have had the Bifrost for some time, just without the UBER pcb. Im sure it will require some burn in however. The HD800 should arrive tomorrow (amazon prime
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Shikarikato

Thanks for all the potential input, really persuading me to go grab a pair soon.


----------



## MickeyVee

Well.. have almost 2 hours on the HD800. Although it's too early to make any real judgments it's exactly the sound signature I want. I realize it needs a lot more burn in out and out of the box its quite nice.
  Compared to the HD700 which I really liked and based on my current listening and from what I remember form my side by side comparison at the TO HeadFi meet:
  - HD700 has that treble spike that sometimes bothered me and I'm not hearing it with the HD800.  Extension and detail are amazing without fatigue.
  - Bass is tighter and more defined but there's less quantity - better quality - seems well balanced
  - HD800 comfort far surpasses the HD700
  - HD800 cable is less finicky than the HD700 which used to get locked in loops - annoying at times
  - I absolutely love that I can listen to the HD800 at low volumes without feeling that I have to crank the volume to hear everything.
  Compared to the HE500 - The HE500 are packed back in the box ready to be sold. Nuff said. I have no interest in listening to them again. Like I said, I'm a one main headphone guy.
   
  I've gone through my favourite playlist which includes Enigma, Dire Straits, Patricia Barber, Deadmou5, Tears For Fears, ATB,  Morgan Page, Eagles, Madonna and more.. So far, nothing lacking and it all sounds good.
   
  No euphoria but as I read many times, the HD800 get out of the way so you can listen to the music.  Exactly what I want!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> No euphoria but as I read many times, the HD800 get out of the way so you can listen to the music.  Exactly what I want!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Well.. have almost 2 hours on the HD800. Although it's too early to make any real judgments it's exactly the sound signature I want. I realize it needs a lot more burn in out and out of the box its quite nice.
> Compared to the HD700 which I really liked and based on my current listening and from what I remember form my side by side comparison at the TO HeadFi meet:
> - HD700 has that treble spike that sometimes bothered me and I'm not hearing it with the HD800.  Extension and detail are amazing without fatigue.
> - Bass is tighter and more defined but there's less quantity - better quality - seems well balanced
> ...


 
  Mickey congratulations. I am listening the hd700 now and they are really not even close to the hd800. I think you made the right move. I still think that the HD800 and T1 are two fantastic dynamic headphones.  The HD700 is being reviewed for Sennheiser.


----------



## MickeyVee

Thanks DS Girl, Frank.. this is the first time since I've started on my HeadFi journey that I'm really satisfied right off the bat. It took me a month to get used to the HD700 sound and accept it and never really accepted the HE500 or the other headphones I've been through. As I'm typing this, Eva Cassidy just came on.. Wade in the Water.. Wow! Just sounds right!


----------



## PinkLed

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Just picked up my HD800 at lunch time and they're sitting beside me on my desk at work.  Can't wait to get home to try them out.
> I have the Bifrost Uber and the Lyr with Amerex Orange Globe tubes (have some Bugle Boys en route). I heard the HD800 at the local Toronto HeadFi (May 4) on my system and was blown away. My HD700 and HE500 went up for sale the next day.  Not sure the Schiit Stack will drive them to their _full_ potential but is sure is quite nice!


 
  We just going to have to get more tubes now. Glad to hear they improve the hd700 out of the box. I wonder if some nice Mullards will now be even more necessary for the Lyrs.


----------



## MickeyVee

Have the Mullards, Amperex Orange Globe, Amperex Bugle Boys, a set of Martsu's and 2 sets of stock GE tubes.  Done for now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sounds great out of the Orange Globes so I'll give it a month to break in and then start tube rolling.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Mickey congratulations. I am listening the hd700 now and they are really not even close to the hd800. I think you made the right move. I still think that the HD800 and T1 are two fantastic dynamic headphones.  The HD700 is being reviewed for Sennheiser.


 
  Agreed Frank. Funny usually at the $1k range, diminished returns kick in, but between the HD700s and HD800s they don't! The HD800s are actually even better than the price difference to my ears!


----------



## BobJS

@MickeyVee
   
  I held on to my HE-500s so I could listen to the lower quality recordings in my collection without cringing.


----------



## technica18

mickeyvee said:


> Have the Mullards, Amperex Orange Globe, Amperex Bugle Boys, a set of Martsu's and 2 sets of stock GE tubes.  Done for now.   Sounds great out of the Orange Globes so I'll give it a month to break in and then start tube rolling.




I really don't like the HD800 on my Lyr with the stock GE tubes compared to my Soloist SL cause it just sounds too V shaped. If you get a chance to compare your other tubes with the GE then please give us your impressions.


----------



## MickeyVee

Gave up on the stock GE tubes a long time ago. Running Amperex Orange right now and am really enjoying them.
  Quote: 





technica18 said:


> I really don't like the HD800 on my Lyr with the stock GE tubes compared to my Soloist SL cause it just sounds too V shaped. If you get a chance to compare your other tubes with the GE then please give us your impressions.


----------



## MickeyVee

I've got a lot of 80's stuff on CD. Even though I ripped them to Apple Lossless, the recordings aren't that great but I'm still enjoying them with the HD800.  I hear the flaws in these and in some of my 256kbps files but again, I'm hearing and enjoying the music. Can hear/listen beyond the flaws.  Have no interest in the HE500 any more 
  I just cant stop listening to the HD800s. I haven't had this much fun in a long time! (well, two double Rusty Nails may have something to do with it)
  Quote: 





bobjs said:


> @MickeyVee
> 
> I held on to my HE-500s so I could listen to the lower quality recordings in my collection without cringing.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

mickeyvee said:


> Gave up on the stock GE tubes a long time ago. Running Amperex Orange right now and am really enjoying them.




My HD800's are fairly new too. Tonight with the Lyr I rolled in a set of Siemens & Halske E88CC, CCa grey plates. Wow!! Incredible detail, extension and strong tight bass. The best I've heard from these cans so far. I was listening to baroque concerti, and the sound of an oboe d'amore was more accurate than I have ever heard before (I play this instrument, so I have a good idea of the sound). Endgame tubes for the HD800!


----------



## Kojaku

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Have the Mullards, Amperex Orange Globe, Amperex Bugle Boys, a set of Martsu's and 2 sets of stock GE tubes.  Done for now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hm, a lot of people complain that the Orange Globes are a bit too hot to pair with the HD800 and prefer the Bugles for their smoother presentation. What're your feelings on it? I've found that my original Tesla Sabres were way too treble-happy (since I used them with LCD2s) and had to roll back to stock JJs while I wait for my Bugle Boys to come in, but the treble is still a little too hot for me.
   
  Kojaku


----------



## Shikarikato

Odd question but, does anyone here own a Blue Spark or a discrete microphone and HD800s? Was wondering if HD800s are picked up by the mic or not.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





kojaku said:


> Hm, a lot of people complain that the Orange Globes are a bit too hot to pair with the HD800 and prefer the Bugles for their smoother presentation. What're your feelings on it? I've found that my original Tesla Sabres were way too treble-happy (since I used them with LCD2s) and had to roll back to stock JJs while I wait for my Bugle Boys to come in, but the treble is still a little too hot for me.
> 
> Kojaku


 
   
   
  i find them to be warm, but compared to most of the Lyr impressions i find the opposite to be true on the WA2. though i agree, i prefer the bugle boys for my HD 800, and the orange globes for the T1. i feel like the orange globes have a bit more bass and fullness vs. the more open and airy bugle boys.


----------



## MickeyVee

The Orange Globes are working for me right now. I used them with my HD700 and found them a little hot (as everything else was) at times but not so far with the HD800.  Mind you, it's just day 1 for me.  A set of Bugle Boys were waiting for me when I got home but since I'm pretty happy right now, I thought that I'd give the current setup a month or so for break in, both physically and for my brain to get really used to the HD800 signature before tube rolling. I should really test the BB's before long to see if they're ok. Maybe on the weekend.
  This is what I'm running right now: Amperex 6DJ8 / ECC88 - Orange Globe 1969 Dimple Getter.
   
  This is my full list of tubes so I have a lot to play with.  So much music, so many tubes and a pair of HD800 to boot. Life is good.
   
  • GE 6BZ7 ( 2 Pairs)
  • Amperex 6DJ8 / ECC88 - A-Frame, 1972/1973 PQ Label 
  • Amperex 6DJ8 / ECC88 - Orange Globe 1967 Holland
  • Amperex 6DJ8 / ECC88 - Orange Globe 1969 Dimple Getter
  • Matsu****a E88CC 6922 Japan - MINT NOS NIB Mullard Tooling
  • Mullard CV2492 E88CC 6922 - 1969-1978 Dimple Disc Getter 
  • Philips Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 Tubes, Vintage Year 1967
   
  Edit: So I've shut down the Schiit Stack for the night and will let the HD800 burn in with the Audinst HUD-MX2 for the next 24 hours or so. Sacrilege, but it's not bad. Definitely can use the Audinst for causal listening.  I'm starting to wonder about all the stuff I've read about the HD800.. 200 hours of burn in.. bright before break in.. bass light.. needs a new cable.. blah, blah, blah.. My S/N is 21xxx.. maybe Senn has made some changes since the original release.
  I'll shut up for a while until I get 100 hours or so on them. So far, so good.  Night All.
  Quote: 





kojaku said:


> Hm, a lot of people complain that the Orange Globes are a bit too hot to pair with the HD800 and prefer the Bugles for their smoother presentation. What're your feelings on it? I've found that my original Tesla Sabres were way too treble-happy (since I used them with LCD2s) and had to roll back to stock JJs while I wait for my Bugle Boys to come in, but the treble is still a little too hot for me.
> 
> Kojaku


----------



## Kojaku

Quote: 





shikarikato said:


> Odd question but, does anyone here own a Blue Spark or a discrete microphone and HD800s? Was wondering if HD800s are picked up by the mic or not.


 
  I own a Yeti Pro. What do you mean "pick up"? As in are the open-back cans picked up by the mic? I had the problem with my LCD-2s. That's why I use in-ears or closed-back stuff for vocalists and use the HD800s for mixing.
   
  Kojaku


----------



## Kojaku

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i find them to be warm, but compared to most of the Lyr impressions i find the opposite to be true on the WA2. though i agree, i prefer the bugle boys for my HD 800, and the orange globes for the T1. i feel like the orange globes have a bit more bass and fullness vs. the more open and airy bugle boys.


 
  Do you happen to have any reference rips with Korean "S"s or any really sibilant Ss or Fs? I want to know if the heat is too much in the presence region. I have modded my 800s and it helped alot, but Korean S and really sibilant Ss really are too hot.
   
  Kojaku


----------



## Maxvla

MV: here's a tune to show off your HD800s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdOh7uZLUxM (embedding disabled)

Positional queues aplenty, soundstage depth and width, real and synthesized sounds, layering, blending, precision. With a normal set of headphones (LCD2, HD600, HE-500) it will just sound nice. With HD800s you will get lost in it.


----------



## RIQUE

Has anybody upgraded the HD800 cable and can actually state an improvment rather than just a differance in audible sound?


----------



## verber

Quote: 





bobjs said:


> @MickeyVee
> 
> I held on to my HE-500s so I could listen to the lower quality recordings in my collection without cringing.


 
  I am not sure if I have just gotten used to listening to bad recording through the HD800, or if the Headamp GS-X mk2 has made a subtle but significant change because I just noticed that I am no longer cringing when I listen to a number of CDs which used to drive me crazy through the HD800s.
   
  --mark


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





kojaku said:


> Hm, a lot of people complain that the Orange Globes are a bit too hot to pair with the HD800 and prefer the Bugles for their smoother presentation. What're your feelings on it? I've found that my original Tesla Sabres were way too treble-happy (since I used them with LCD2s) and had to roll back to stock JJs while I wait for my Bugle Boys to come in, but the treble is still a little too hot for me.
> 
> Kojaku


 
   
  I too find the Orange Globes too hot (V-shaped,exaggerated rumbling lows,slightly sibilant highs) on the Lyr for the HD-800, but haven't had a chance to roll in something else before switching to the Conductor to drive the HD800s.  In the past, I found the Bugle Boys unexciting, but maybe I'll try them again with the HD800.


----------



## NightFlight

mickeyvee said:


> Have the Mullards, Amperex Orange Globe, Amperex Bugle Boys, a set of Martsu's and 2 sets of stock GE tubes.  Done for now.   Sounds great out of the Orange Globes so I'll give it a month to break in and then start tube rolling.





Socket savers.


----------



## Operakid

You can train yourself to ignore the cringing, you can soften them with soft amps, you can use ultra clean components all the way through to give them the best signal possible, but that peaky behavior is going to be there to a degree, it's the nature of the headphones.  I am fully expecting that to be addressed with the next iteration of the HD design, as let's face it, it is by far the most voiced complaint against the HD800.  In fact, compared to the complaints against this, there are no other complaints!  
   
  You watch: if the ringing/peakiness is addressed, there will be some who say that there is not enough detail!  In 30 years of business I know there always will be complainers.  And in 30 years of working with audiophiles I know for sure that getting rid of the peakiness will be perceived by many that detail is lower.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





operakid said:


> You can train yourself to ignore the cringing, you can soften them with soft amps, you can use ultra clean components all the way through to give them the best signal possible, but that peaky behavior is going to be there to a degree, it's the nature of the headphones.  I am fully expecting that to be addressed with the next iteration of the HD design, as let's face it, it is by far the most voiced complaint against the HD800.  In fact, compared to the complaints against this, there are no other complaints!
> 
> You watch: if the ringing/peakiness is addressed, there will be some who say that there is not enough detail!  In 30 years of business I know there always will be complainers.  And in 30 years of working with audiophiles I know for sure that getting rid of the peakiness will be perceived by many that detail is lower.


 
  But there are also some of us who just don't hear the so called '6k peak'. I hear a natural one at about 10k but it certainly doesn't ring. Its just sharp and detailed but not annoying. Grado, Beyer, Denon peaks have been annoying for me in the past but I've had no bother in this area with the HD800's. If they rolled off the treble or try to dull it, it would ruin what this headphone does. imo


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





rique said:


> Has anybody upgraded the HD800 cable and can actually state an improvment rather than just a differance in audible sound?


 
   
  I found the cable was shorter and more flexible after being changed out


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> But there are also some of us who just don't hear the so called '6k peak'. I hear a natural one at about 10k but it certainly doesn't ring. Its just sharp and detailed but not annoying. Grado, Beyer, Denon peaks have been annoying for me in the past but I've had no bother in this area with the HD800's. If they rolled off the treble or try to dull it, it would ruin what this headphone does. imo


 
  Agreed, I found the shrillness of the Grados to be unlistenable (painful really) with certain amps and recordings, this has never happened with the HD800's.
  Quote: 





solude said:


> I found the cable was shorter and more flexible after being changed out


 
  Heh, I also like the suppleness, lightness, and flexibility of my new cable.  I also like the color red...oh and the length is right for now, may need a  longer one and a shorter one for different uses in the future.


----------



## PinkLed

> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Just make sure you get the good ones from tube monger. The 5$ china made ones are horrible and made my ears bleed.


----------



## MIKELAP

Well postman delivered my hd800 today but of course i had to be somewhere else, gonna have to wait till tomorrow and go get them at the post office


----------



## PinkLed

Quote: 





> Well postman delivered my hd800 today but of course i had to be somewhere else, gonna have to wait till tomorrow and go get them at the post office


 
  I knew this would happen to me since I dont get home until 5 pm. So I called up UPS and told them to drop it off after 5 if possible. I cant wait another day im so stoked! I will enjoy them tonight for the both of us. Now I just hope the driver doesnt hit traffic.


----------



## MIKELAP

First of all congrats are in order What im hoping is that there in one piece i took the precaution  to insure them full value just in case Like last month i sold an amp to a guy and he says to me dont bother with insurance well what i did is i insured  the amp anyways its about $10.00 its not gonna kill me and everybody will sleep good.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> Well postman delivered my hd800 today but of course i had to be somewhere else, gonna have to wait till tomorrow and go get them at the post office


 
   
  Quote: 





pinkled said:


> I knew this would happen to me since I dont get home until 5 pm. So I called up UPS and told them to drop it off after 5 if possible. I cant wait another day im so stoked! *I will enjoy them tonight for the both of us*. Now I just hope the driver doesnt hit traffic.


 
  I feel for you guys.... One thing for sure is, it is worth the wait! 
   
  In the meantime, I'm enjoying them for both of you


----------



## MickeyVee

x2 - it's definitely worth the wait - you will enjoy them!! - just got mine last night
  Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I feel for you guys.... One thing for sure is, it is worth the wait!
> 
> In the meantime, I'm enjoying them for both of you


----------



## PinkLed

> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Worst news possible. So the UPS guy did come but at 2:00 and the note flew off my door into the bushes. So I'm sitting here at home waiting for the HD800's to arrive and then I find out after the pick up time that the note is in the bushes. I call up UPS and they say i can pick it up on Tuesday. First world troubles. Ugh. Enjoy them for me guys, looks like I wont be joining the club for a couple more days.


----------



## MR22

Sooo, I've been hunting around for a Good Amp to match with these headphones, with enough time either my head or the foam has settled to the point were I'm not getting headache's anymore (yay) now origionally I was quite keen on the BCL, but since then I keep on thinking that, since I listen to mostly electronic audio from a variety of devices, mostly a laptop that I should actually look at sorting the DAC side of things, so then I was looking at the BCL which has DAC built in, but then I read that it's terrible!
   
  my problem is that I really don't want to spend more than $1k for the amp & DAC, so low and behold I come across a few sites making noise about the fireflies which seem to fit the bill....
   
   
  My question to you guys, are any of you guys running the WA7 Fireflies with the HD800's? what do you think, especially with regards to electronic music ?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





mr22 said:


> My question to you guys, are any of you guys running the WA7 Fireflies with the HD800's? what do you think, especially with regards to electronic music ?


 
   
   
  i believe Frank I has reviewed the WA7 and he said it was really good with HD 800s.


----------



## MR22

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i believe Frank I has reviewed the WA7 and he said it was really good with HD 800s.


 
  Would you have a link to said Review? I checked for a Frank username and could not find much with my poor search skills


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





mr22 said:


> Would you have a link to said Review? I checked for a Frank username and could not find much with my poor search skills


 
   
http://dagogo.com/woo-audio-wa7-fireflies-dac-headphone-amplifier-review


----------



## Solude

In that range I'd probably go for a Schiit stack mostly because the BiFrost is hard to beat in that range.  Or maybe an Audio-GD dac/amp combo unit.


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





mr22 said:


> Sooo, I've been hunting around for a Good Amp to match with these headphones, with enough time either my head or the foam has settled to the point were I'm not getting headache's anymore (yay) now origionally I was quite keen on the BCL, but since then I keep on thinking that, since I listen to mostly electronic audio from a variety of devices, mostly a laptop that I should actually look at sorting the DAC side of things, so then I was looking at the BCL which has DAC built in, but then I read that it's terrible!
> 
> my problem is that I really don't want to spend more than $1k for the amp & DAC, so low and behold I come across a few sites making noise about the fireflies which seem to fit the bill....
> 
> ...


 

 I'd stay away from (the fancy) tube amps, but that's just me...


----------



## MorbidToaster

melvinv said:


> I'd stay away from (the fancy) tube amps, but that's just me...




I'd stay away from SS amps in that price range completely.


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I'd stay away from SS amps in that price range completely.


 
  Yeah, the best SS amps are a lot cheaper than the "best" tube amps.


----------



## MorbidToaster

melvinv said:


> Yeah, the best SS amps are a lot cheaper than the "best" tube amps.




I haven't heard an SS amp I've liked with the HD800 under a few grand. I think you can 'get away with' a cheaper tube amp for them than SS amp.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





melvinv said:


> Yeah, the best SS amps are a lot cheaper than the "best" tube amps.


 
  The best solid state amps are form companies like Nelson Pass,Dan Agostino,Mb and others like Classe. and Sim Audio. Ther is nothing cheap about there offerings in both sound quality and in price. They will be very similar in price to Tube amplifiers in that category.  
   
   The distance has narrowed between the two designs.  I own both solid state and tube amplifiers and enjoy both types.


----------



## LugBug1

I'd get an M-stage and spend the rest on a good dac with a 1k budget. Then start saving for a better amp.


----------



## Maxvla

morbidtoaster said:


> I haven't heard an SS amp I've liked with the HD800 under a few grand. I think you can 'get away with' a cheaper tube amp for them than SS amp.



You will in a couple weeks. The M-Stage (BCL clone) is really interesting with the HD800 for only $260.


----------



## LugBug1

Or you could get one of these  Its the least I've spent on any amp, and the best sounding one I've owned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  It's older than my wife, and she's 35!


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I'd get an M-stage and spend the rest on a good dac with a 1k budget. Then start saving for a better amp.


 
  Came in to say this. And m-Stage and a Concero would be pretty hard to beat at the price.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## MelvinV

I also officially hate Grado now.
  The SR80i used to be ~€80 here, now it's €170 (=$220)...
  And in the US it's still $100.
  In the UK it's £135 ($205).
  They're so cool to charge ~2,2 times more for the same headphone here in Europe.
  Companies to not buy headphones from anymore:
 Sennheiser;
 Grado.
   
   
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> The best solid state amps are form companies like Nelson Pass,Dan Agostino,Mb and others like Classe. and Sim Audio. Ther is nothing cheap about there offerings in both sound quality and in price. They will be very similar in price to Tube amplifiers in that category.
> 
> The distance has narrowed between the two designs.  I own both solid state and tube amplifiers and enjoy both types.


 
  I had a look at Dan Agostino's products and all I can think is "toy".


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





melvinv said:


> I also officially hate Grado now.
> The SR80i used to be ~€80 here, now it's €170 (=$220)...
> And in the US it's still $100.
> In the UK it's £135 ($205).
> ...


 
  Things (especially electric) have always been cheaper in the US compared to Europe. Its just the way it is. If you don't like it then move to the US 
   
  Economics and head-fi don't mix well and just leads to pointless derailing arguments....


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Things (especially electric) have always been cheaper in the US compared to Europe. Its just the way it is. If you don't like it then move to the US
> 
> Economics and head-fi don't mix well and just leads to pointless derailing arguments....


 

 Half a year ago the SR-80 was €80 here, and I know things are usually a bit more expensive here. But not 120% more expensive! Like 20% more at most is the "normal" pricing.


----------



## Solude

Global market.  Don't take advantage of it at your own peril.  If British pricing is silly, buy from another source.  Personally I always buy from the country of origin.


----------



## nigeljames

Grado have always ripped off international buyers, that's just the way Grado operate.


----------



## hekeli

Except that HD800 is more expensive in the US. Take that yankees!


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





hekeli said:


> Except that HD800 is more expensive in the US. Take that yankees!


 
   
  Yes and compared to the top Grados probably worth it


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





solude said:


> Global market.  Don't take advantage of it at your own peril.  If British pricing is silly, buy from another source.  Personally I always buy from the country of origin.


 
  But I live in the Netherlands, every European store is that expensive and the British stores are also expensive. Idk about the Asian/Chinese market but those are probably fake and importing it from the USA costs a ****load of money.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> Worst news possible. So the UPS guy did come but at 2:00 and the note flew off my door into the bushes. So I'm sitting here at home waiting for the HD800's to arrive and then I find out after the pick up time that the note is in the bushes. I call up UPS and they say i can pick it up on Tuesday. First world troubles. Ugh. Enjoy them for me guys, looks like I wont be joining the club for a couple more days.


 
  Well i got my phones today and compared to my Lawton Audio Denons D-5000 theres no comparaison to be made between the 2 phones the hd800 are so clean i love them . Man you will be very very happy its worth the couple of days extra you have to wait hang in there paradise is on the way brother.


----------



## technica18

I never understood the appeal of the tin can sound of Grados. But hey to each his own.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> Well i got my phones today and compared to my Lawton Audio Denons D-5000 theres no comparaison to be made between the 2 phones the hd800 are so clean i love them . Man you will be very very happy its worth the couple of days extra you have to wait hang in there paradise is on the way brother.


 
  Congrats


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





technica18 said:


> I never understood the appeal of the tin can sound of Grados. But hey to each his own.


 
  Yeah, I think a lot of head-fiers start with Grado's and if you haven't heard anything better then they're gonna sound great. I can see the appeal and I loved my RS1's. But they certainly don't stand up to the price that they are these days. Maybe 5 year ago. I would say $300 for a RS1 seems fair. But here in the uk, for £200 more can get you the HD800's. And that is like comparing a Ford pick-up truck to a Bentley.
   
  Or a crack whore to Liz Hurley.
   
  Crack whore. (or RS1)

   
  Liz Hurley (or HD800)


----------



## rawrster

I never really understood the Grados or at least the ones in production. The only one I really liked is no longer in production namely the HP2. I've also never understood the prices they go for outside of the USA as well..
   
  On another note I think the HD800 will be my last dynamic headphone I seriously own. With the setup I have for them there is little to be desired. I did get a starter Stax amp Friday at work (of course after I left since that's how it usually goes) and then hopefully find an O2 in the next few weeks.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Liz Hurley (or HD800)


 
   
   
  Liz Hurly for the price of an HD800 ?  I'm in for 2


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Yeah, I think a lot of head-fiers start with Grado's and if you haven't heard anything better then they're gonna sound great. I can see the appeal and I loved my RS1's. But they certainly don't stand up to the price that they are these days. Maybe 5 year ago. I would say $300 for a RS1 seems fair. But here in the uk, for £200 more can get you the HD800's. And that is like comparing a Ford pick-up truck to a Bentley.
> 
> Or a crack whore to Liz Hurley.
> 
> ...


 
  Imagine that Hugh Grant lost her for a crack whore. How stupid was that.


----------



## wuwhere

If an HD800 is like a Liz Hurley, what would an LCD-3 or HE-6 be? And for that matter the 009?


----------



## negura

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> If an HD800 is like a Liz Hurley, what would an LCD-3 or HE-6 be? And for that matter the 009?


 
   
  Imho:
   
  LCD-3s

   
  Real Stax engineers reviewing prototype:


----------



## paradoxper

I don't know about ya'll but my girl(yea, she cleans up nicely, too): (sorry SE)


----------



## palmfish

Here's my new headphone stand. A $20 made in China knockoff...


----------



## Kojaku

Some new friends with matched 98/98 sections...so deliciously smooth, but with ridiculously airy presentation and amazingly coherent imaging. This is a stopping point before I can afford Halske's...
   
  Kojaku


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I don't know about ya'll but my girl(yea, she cleans up nicely, too): (sorry SE)


 
  LMAO
   
  had a proper chuckle at the last few posts!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





kojaku said:


> Some new friends with matched 98/98 sections...so deliciously smooth, but with ridiculously airy presentation and amazingly coherent imaging. This is a stopping point before I can afford Halske's...
> 
> Kojaku


 
   
   
  +1


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





kojaku said:


> Some new friends with matched 98/98 sections...so deliciously smooth, but with ridiculously airy presentation and amazingly coherent imaging. This is a stopping point before I can afford Halske's...
> 
> Kojaku


 
   
  That is some sweet looking glass, Kojaku!


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





mr22 said:


> Sooo, I've been hunting around for a Good Amp to match with these headphones, with enough time either my head or the foam has settled to the point were I'm not getting headache's anymore (yay) now origionally I was quite keen on the BCL, but since then I keep on thinking that, since I listen to mostly electronic audio from a variety of devices, mostly a laptop that I should actually look at sorting the DAC side of things, so then I was looking at the BCL which has DAC built in, but then I read that it's terrible!
> 
> my problem is that I really don't want to spend more than $1k for the amp & DAC, so low and behold I come across a few sites making noise about the fireflies which seem to fit the bill....
> 
> ...


 
   
  Can you roll tubes with the WA7? No? Consider the Schiit Bifrost/Lyr. Tube signature with the 800s is IMHO important.
   
  ... if your determined to go with tubes. I think solid state can outperform tubes, but its more costly to find an amp done right.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> That is some sweet looking glass, Kojaku!


 
   
  I have the S&H E88CC Grey plates. They are great, but I think they are closest to solid state in tube format. So I'm really starting to wonder if tubes are right for me.


----------



## bigshuse

Does anyone have experience with the Cardas vs. the Black Dragon for the HD800? I have the Cardas now (just "cheap" one, not the Clear) and I greatly prefer it to the stock cable. I'm interested to know if people prefer the Black Dragon to the Cardas. I've also been thinking about doing the Q-Audio with the adapters too, since I have the LCD2s. I'd love to hear any feedback about the Q cable as well. Thanks.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





bigshuse said:


> Does anyone have experience with the Cardas vs. the Black Dragon for the HD800? I have the Cardas now (just "cheap" one, not the Clear) and I greatly prefer it to the stock cable. I'm interested to know if people prefer the Black Dragon to the Cardas. I've also been thinking about doing the Q-Audio with the adapters too, since I have the LCD2s. I'd love to hear any feedback about the Q cable as well. Thanks.


 
   
  I love my Black Dragon for my HD800 and think it's the best. I didn't like the Cardas for my HD650 (made it "nervous" sounding) FWIW. Go for the premium Furutech connectors, I like the sound of these much more than the Neutriks (or any others)
  and so does Drew. It needs about 20-30 hours of break in to sound it's best (the bass get wonderfully controlled and detailed.).


----------



## Solude

Litv v Multistrand.  Personally prefer litz normally.  Given the HD800 connector to the headphone is about 100awg, pure fiction but it is tiny, the material quality and flex are more important than gauge.


----------



## MR22

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Can you roll tubes with the WA7? No? Consider the Schiit Bifrost/Lyr. Tube signature with the 800s is IMHO important.
> 
> ... if your determined to go with tubes. I think solid state can outperform tubes, but its more costly to find an amp done right.


 
  I was actually under the impression that the shiit stuff was far more expensive than it's now looking, it sounds like that might actually be the way to go..
   
  the Fireflies are such a beautiful solution though! and so neat  I may end up going with the WA7 with the Russian tubes (better for electronic they seem to be saying) and see how I go, if it's not enough then move to a shiit stack


----------



## PinkLed

Quote: 





mr22 said:


> I was actually under the impression that the shiit stuff was far more expensive than it's now looking, it sounds like that might actually be the way to go..
> 
> the Fireflies are such a beautiful solution though! and so neat  I may end up going with the WA7 with the Russian tubes (better for electronic they seem to be saying) and see how I go, if it's not enough then move to a shiit stack


 
  Hey schiits neat too!


----------



## MR22

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> Hey schiits neat too!


 
  oh they are, but the WA7 looks like a little bit of functional art


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





verber said:


> I am not sure if I have just gotten used to listening to bad recording through the HD800, or if the Headamp GS-X mk2 has made a subtle but significant change because I just noticed that I am no longer cringing when I listen to a number of CDs which used to drive me crazy through the HD800s.
> 
> --mark


 
   





   
  I don't know what to think of this..  What amp was you previously using?


----------



## MickeyVee

I've been eyeing/lusting over the WA7.  It seems like a simple and elegant solution that takes up minimal desk space.  I've only seen one comparison and the WA7 outclasses the Bifrost/Lyr but not by a lot.  Don't think you can go wrong withe either given that they're roughly within the same price range. If this is true, I'm thinking of going the WA7, get both sets of tubes and then be done with it. The Bifrost gives you more flexibility but I'm OK with a USB only solution. 
  Quote: 





mr22 said:


> I was actually under the impression that the shiit stuff was far more expensive than it's now looking, it sounds like that might actually be the way to go..
> 
> the Fireflies are such a beautiful solution though! and so neat  I may end up going with the WA7 with the Russian tubes (better for electronic they seem to be saying) and see how I go, if it's not enough then move to a shiit stack


----------



## MR22

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I've been eyeing/lusting over the WA7.  It seems like a simple and elegant solution that takes up minimal desk space.  I've only seen one comparison and the WA7 outclasses the Bifrost/Lyr but not by a lot.  Don't think you can go wrong withe either given that they're roughly within the same price range. If this is true, I'm thinking of going the WA7, get both sets of tubes and then be done with it. The Bifrost gives you more flexibility but I'm OK with a USB only solution.


 
  Agreed, and exactly as you say, buy both sets of tubes
   
  Come thursday I'm ordering the WA7, Sorry but the Shiit stuff is just too ugly


----------



## NightFlight

mr22 said:


> Agreed, and exactly as you say, buy both sets of tubes
> 
> Come thursday I'm ordering the WA7, Sorry but the Shiit stuff is just too ugly





Huh. I actually think the opposite. Besides, some of the best gear I've heard is old crappy scarred up on the outside....But modified out the wazoo on the inside. Looks have NOTHING to do with audio reproduction. I'd use a dead rotting moose carcus if it sounded good.


----------



## MR22

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Huh. I actually think the opposite. Besides, some of the best gear I've heard is old crappy scarred up on the outside....But modified out the wazoo on the inside. Looks have NOTHING to do with audio reproduction. I'd use a dead rotting moose carcus if it sounded good.


 
  I have at no point said that looks have anything to do with quality, I however have to look at the thing every day and personally find the WA7 far more pleasing to the eye


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> Huh. I actually think the opposite. Besides, some of the best gear I've heard is old crappy scarred up on the outside....But modified out the wazoo on the inside. Looks have NOTHING to do with audio reproduction. *I'd use a dead rotting moose carcus if it sounded good*.


 
  I can confirm that they do indeed sound very good. Once you've cleaned up the output a little


----------



## PinkLed

> Agreed, and exactly as you say, buy both sets of tubes
> 
> Come thursday I'm ordering the WA7, Sorry but the Shiit stuff is just too ugly


 
  I always thought brushed aluminum looks way better than grainy aluminum.


----------



## MR22

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> I always thought brushed aluminum looks way better than grainy aluminum.


 
  Going the black  
   
   
  Camoooooooon thursday, it'll be nice to finally get the HD800's to a good volume, that and see if it breath's life back into the ol' HD590's that I've loved for so long.
   
  have yet to find a fix for the girlfriend who complains that the headphones drown out her normal speakers hahaha


----------



## bigshuse

Quote: 





mr22 said:


> Going the black
> 
> 
> Camoooooooon thursday, it'll be nice to finally get the HD800's to a good volume, that and see if it breath's life back into the ol' HD590's that I've loved for so long.
> ...


 

 I get that same complaint too. I bought her some Grado 60s in hopes that she would like something louder and more engaging than macbook "speakers". Nope, they spend all day sitting on the bookshelf with the macbook cranked up to 11.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





mr22 said:


> Going the black
> 
> 
> Camoooooooon thursday, it'll be nice to finally get the HD800's to a good volume, that and see if it breath's life back into the ol' HD590's that I've loved for so long.
> ...


 
  Simple she needs headphones.


----------



## MR22

Quote: 





bigshuse said:


> I get that same complaint too. I bought her some Grado 60s in hopes that she would like something louder and more engaging than macbook "speakers". Nope, they spend all day sitting on the bookshelf with the macbook cranked up to 11.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





mikelap said:


> Simple she needs headphones.


 
   
  She's taken the 590's, but since their open back I still get the same complaint :|   thankfully our house should be done in 8 months at which point I'll find a distant room! *grumble*


----------



## kazsud

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Here's my new headphone stand. A $20 made in China knockoff...


 
  It may be a knock off but it's only $10 cheaper than it should be. I'm sure it's just 18mm pine plywood cnc'd and then glued.


----------



## PinkLed

> Going the black
> 
> 
> Camoooooooon thursday, it'll be nice to finally get the HD800's to a good volume, that and see if it breath's life back into the ol' HD590's that I've loved for so long.
> ...


 
  The black looks sweet. Enjoy it man! I'd like to own some woo gear some day.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> The black looks sweet. Enjoy it man! I'd like to own some woo gear some day.


 
  Did you get your Senns finally


----------



## Kyle 491

Every time I listen to other high-end headphones, I appreciate these more. That is all.


----------



## MickeyVee

I just got my FR Graph from Sennheiser.. no wonder I love them!!


----------



## MIKELAP

Got mine today as well


----------



## reyiiteleco

hi,
   
  what is  "EC S7" ???
  regards!


----------



## PinkLed

Quote: 





> Quote:
> 
> 
> pinkled said:
> ...


 
  Got them today. First impressions i know will differ from a nice burn in but initially not as deep as the LCD 2's but the bass is tighter and everything is very controlled like many have said. Very neutral. Soundstage on the HD800 make me feel like im listening to surround sound speakers. Dolby Digital 7.what? Highs are way smoother and more detailed than the LCD 2's. LCD 2's i had to crank way up to hear the highs and mids sometimes because of the overwhelming warmth in certain songs. I like warm but the HD800's are so well balanced I can hear absolutely everything without straining my ears at higher db. These things are definatly not for classic rock. The cable that comes with them is amazing for a stock cable. Audezes stock cable broke in 5 months just by normal ware. Sennheiser takes the build quality award. Although they both have plastic parts. Nothing is made like it use to be sorry folks. Coming from the LCD 2 i feel like i have nothing on my head. Now I know what you guys are all boasting about. Or so i think...will post updates in 50 hours on the HD800's.


----------



## Maxvla

reyiiteleco said:


> hi,
> 
> what is  "EC S7" ???
> regards!



Eddie Current Super 7


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> Got them today. First impressions i know will differ from a nice burn in but initially not as deep as the LCD 2's but the bass is tighter and everything is very controlled like many have said. Very neutral. Soundstage on the HD800 make me feel like im listening to surround sound speakers. Dolby Digital 7.what? Highs are way smoother and more detailed than the LCD 2's. LCD 2's i had to crank way up to hear the highs and mids sometimes because of the overwhelming warmth in certain songs. I like warm but the HD800's are so well balanced I can hear absolutely everything without straining my ears at higher db. These things are definatly not for classic rock. The cable that comes with them is amazing for a stock cable. Audezes stock cable broke in 5 months just by normal ware. Sennheiser takes the build quality award. Although they both have plastic parts. Nothing is made like it use to be sorry folks. Coming from the LCD 2 i feel like i have nothing on my head. Now I know what you guys are all boasting about. Or so i think...will post updates in 50 hours on the HD800's.


 
  Great congrats im loving them also i was using denons d-5000 which where very confortable but when you put the Senns on its like getting into a Ferrari they fit like a glove around your head very nice feeling.


----------



## Taliesin

Has anyone here tried theTEAC HA-501 Headphone Amplifier


----------



## lugnut

Could you go into why the HD800 is definitely not for classic rock ?
  I have read in this thread, that others think they do any genre of music well.
  Quote: 





pinkled said:


> Got them today. First impressions i know will differ from a nice burn in but initially not as deep as the LCD 2's but the bass is tighter and everything is very controlled like many have said. Very neutral. Soundstage on the HD800 make me feel like im listening to surround sound speakers. Dolby Digital 7.what? Highs are way smoother and more detailed than the LCD 2's. LCD 2's i had to crank way up to hear the highs and mids sometimes because of the overwhelming warmth in certain songs. I like warm but the HD800's are so well balanced I can hear absolutely everything without straining my ears at higher db*. These things are definatly not for classic rock*. The cable that comes with them is amazing for a stock cable. Audezes stock cable broke in 5 months just by normal ware. Sennheiser takes the build quality award. Although they both have plastic parts. Nothing is made like it use to be sorry folks. Coming from the LCD 2 i feel like i have nothing on my head. Now I know what you guys are all boasting about. Or so i think...will post updates in 50 hours on the HD800's.


----------



## Mambosenior

lugnut said:


> Could you go into why the HD800 is definitely not for classic rock ?
> I have read in this thread, that others think they do any genre of music well.




You can relax, they do Classic Rock tremendously well. It's a particular genre of music that I've listened to for many years and that a properly amped HD-800 does justice to.


----------



## Solude

I think calling the HD800 genre specific is inaccurate.  In my case they replace Audeze cans for... punk and alternative of all things.  On the right rig the HD800 is great at any genre.


----------



## nigeljames

I have to agree with Solude. The HD800's are not genre specific cans.
   
  I use mine with rock and metal and they are quite excellent. In fact I would say that for rock & metal I actually prefer then to the LCD2.2's.
   
  Both phones give a different emphasis with the LCD's majoring on weight & power and the HD800's going the speed, detail, clarity and dymanic route, which given my system already has plenty of weight and power suits the HD800's better.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> I have to agree with Solude. The HD800's are not genre specific cans.
> 
> I use mine with rock and metal and they are quite excellent. In fact I would say that for rock & metal I actually prefer then to the LCD2.2's.
> 
> Both phones give a different emphasis with the LCD's majoring on weight & power and the HD800's going the speed, detail, clarity and dymanic route, which given my system already has plenty of weight and power suits the HD800's better.


 
   
  I have not found a genre yet that the HD800's could not play beautifully.


----------



## PinkLed

> You can relax, they do Classic Rock tremendously well. It's a particular genre of music that I've listened to for many years and that a properly amped HD-800 does justice to.


 
  I was just referring to the poorer quality of a lot of older tracks. Nothing to do with the genre. It just picks up any flaws in the recording. 
   
  Brought My hd800's to work today and played them out of my andriod, Neutron Music Player. At full volume they sound very good surprisingly undriven.


----------



## rgs9200m

The HD800s are very fine for rock/pop.1950s-now and the recording flaws are part of the fun of discovery, from dull/sharp/over-equalized mastering to Autotune today.


----------



## MelvinV

I prefer "bad" mastering from the previous century above "modern" bad masterings. I'd rather have a song that just sounds odd and has a weird veil to it than a song with a dynamic range of 5 that clips 24/7 and has horrible imaging.


----------



## Kyle 491

I get kind of paranoid about damaging  those sensitive drivers on some of the modern music I've played on the HD800s. 5 minute tracks that have over 2.5 mins of solid clipping, a literal wall of (blood) red on Audacity. But I'm crazy that way, I know.


----------



## MelvinV

kyle 491 said:


> I get kind of paranoid about damaging  those sensitive drivers on some of the modern music I've played on the HD800s. 5 minute tracks that have over 2.5 mins of solid clipping, a literal wall of (blood) red on Audacity. But I'm crazy that way, I know.



 
 Why would you even listen to music like that? And clipping is not really a problem for me anymore, but music that clips a lot is 99,99% of the time horribly mastered music (in mono sometimes) by the popular "DJ"s and therefore still sounds horrible. It's not a problem because I have a DSD-DAC, and the DSD specification is +3dBFS (IIRC) so PCM music can clip. And the HD 800's drivers won't damage because of something silly like this, as long as the amplifier doesn't start ******* around you should be fine.


----------



## Kyle 491

Not really listen to it for pleasure, just out of morbid curiosity . I have a habit of analysing the waveform on audacity before playing a song. And yes, I'm well aware they wont be damaged, but the torturous sounds they produce (in crystal clarity) are certainly unnerving!


----------



## PinkLed

> I prefer "bad" mastering from the previous century above "modern" bad mastering. I'd rather have a song that just sounds odd and has a weird veil to it than a song with a dynamic range of 5 that clips 24/7 and has horrible imaging.


 
"modern" bad mastering is much less prevalent than classic bad mastering though. I love me some classic tunes but if Quadrophenia or Physical Graffiti were recorded today... forget it.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





kyle 491 said:


> I get kind of paranoid about damaging  those sensitive drivers on some of the modern music I've played on the HD800s. 5 minute tracks that have over 2.5 mins of solid clipping, a literal wall of (blood) red on Audacity. But I'm crazy that way, I know.


 
  Nicely put.


----------



## kazsud

Quote: 





melvinv said:


> I prefer "bad" mastering from the previous century above "modern" bad masterings. I'd rather have a song that just sounds odd and has a weird veil to it than a song with a dynamic range of 5 that clips 24/7 and has horrible imaging.


 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## froger

Has anyone heard the HD800 on BOTH GS-X and DNA stratus and can compare the two since the two amps seem to be producing the best sound on HD800 based on what I have read so far? I have tried HD800 on my Audio-gd master 8 amp and while it sounded pretty nice with its neutrality, transparency and soundstage, I felt it lacked the body which I enjoy so much with LCD-2 on Master 8 and HE-6 on my Mini-torii amp. I wonder if GS-X or Stratus will be able to change my impression of HD800?


----------



## OrbitingCow

I'm having trouble deciding if I should invest in these and I also wonder when the next iteration will be out. It may be sooner than later who knows. There is almost too much talk of this peak that is scaring me off. And the comments about weak bass but sometimes that can be source related.


----------



## hekeli

Quote: 





orbitingcow said:


> There is almost too much talk of this peak that is scaring me off. And the comments about weak bass but sometimes that can be source related.


 
   
  Bunch'o'crapola. I hold off trying HD800 for a long time for all those stupid assumptions people keep alive and for what? Well atleast I tried most high-end cans before it and know now they suit me the best (so far). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Try them and judge *yourself*.


----------



## Solude

If I was in the 2A3 market I'd go with the Eddie Current one.  That said, have you considered a source swap to warm up the Master 8?
   
  The peak is a lie   Well ish, the peak is there but it's below the bass and midrange in level so is it really a peak?


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> "modern" bad mastering is much less prevalent than classic bad mastering though. I love me some classic tunes but if Quadrophenia or Physical Graffiti were recorded today... forget it.


 
   
  Are you joking? At first sight, maybe. But I can listen to "bad" mastering of the previous century for hours even though it sounds odd and I can even turn up the volume and enjoy the music.
  "Modern" bad mastering just gives me a headache within 15 minutes, all the EQ, crap, crap, compression any other trash they used just sounds horrible on high-end gear.
   
  When music is truly natural-sounding you can listen to it for hours.
  When music is extremely distorted you can listen to it for hours.
  When music is trying to sound natural but actually is really distorted and ******* up ("modern" mastering) your brain will try to fix it causing headaches.
   
  Almost all of my music (that I actually listen to) if either SACD (thank you Sony), some "gold" CD stuff which is mastered well or stuff mastered in the previous century.
  Which means that almost all of my music is from the previous century...
   
  I was also thinking about Jackson recently, and I could say that we're not missing anything when it comes to his new music that was going to be made. It would sound like **** anyway... Unless he started a revolution by saying NO to the BS.
   
  Edit: the editor is really crapting the bed in FireFox for some reason...


----------



## froger

solude said:


> If I was in the 2A3 market I'd go with the Eddie Current one.  That said, have you considered a source swap to warm up the Master 8?
> 
> The peak is a lie   Well ish, the peak is there but it's below the bass and midrange in level so is it really a peak?


 I am currently using audio-gd master 7, which I really enjoy on my lcd-2 and he-6, and suppose to be on the slightly warm and musical side.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





froger said:


> I am currently using audio-gd master 7, which I really enjoy on my lcd-2 and he-6, and suppose to be on the slightly warm and musical side.


 
   
  You mean Master 8


----------



## PinkLed

> pinkled said:
> 
> 
> > "modern" bad mastering is *much less prevalent* than classic bad mastering though. I love me some classic tunes but if Quadrophenia or Physical Graffiti were recorded today... forget it.
> ...


 
  We shoudnt turn this into a defend classic recording thread, but lets take a step back and read what I said. Prevalent means "widespread". Of course you could like listening to older tracks, but more newer music is of higher recording caliber than most older music. Of course there is the confounding variable of comparing a musician to an icon. By numbers it wont work because twice the amount of people exist now than did 50 years ago. So just looking at top notch stuff the progression of audio has made advancements as has most technology at the spark of the industrial revolution. Its capitalism at its finest. Youve really generalized new music with that statement. Something my dad said people use to say is "Robert Plant can sing over 4 marshal stacks, no mic". There is no argument here guys. Quality is quality, preference is preference. Honestly, I would love to hear Roger Daltrey a lot clearer on many Who tracks.


----------



## PinkLed

> Final comment - there is nothing weak about the hd800's bass...unless you are driving them with an inadequate or mismatched amp.


 
  Hd800's out of the box are not as warm as the LCD 2 r2 but had a nice tight, punchy bass, and more detail. great for classical or slap bass. And they excel so well at everything else. Did yours deepen over time?


----------



## Solude

I've had four amps with the HD800 and only 2 could dig some good solid bass out of it.  The Soloist and GS-X mk2.  The B22 and Peak didn't really do it for me.


----------



## froger

Quote: 





preproman said:


> You mean Master 8


 
  Nope, Solude was suggesting on the source. I am currently using Master 7 dac as the source and Master 8 as the amp  Audio-gd naming does need some improvements it seems, ha...


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





orbitingcow said:


> I'm having trouble deciding if I should invest in these and I also wonder when the next iteration will be out. It may be sooner than later who knows. There is almost too much talk of this peak that is scaring me off. And the comments about weak bass but sometimes that can be source related.


 
   
  Quote: 





hekeli said:


> Bunch'o'crapola. I hold off trying HD800 for a long time for all those stupid assumptions people keep alive and for what? Well atleast I tried most high-end cans before it and know now they suit me the best (so far).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Very true.  I went through 3 other $1000+ flagships first because of unreasonable predjudices against the HD800.  That all changed after actually owning a pair.  Though I just had a moment of temporary insanity where I almost sold mine because I needed some extra cash. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But now, I'm just my temporarily downgrading my DAC instead, so HD800 goodness goes on, albiet a little rougher around the edges. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And yes, after trying some of the others it does give you perspective and a better appreciation of the HD800's capabilities.


----------



## varyV

Quote: 





jwahl said:


> Very true.  I went through 3 other $1000+ flagships first because of unreasonable predjudices against the HD800.  That all changed after actually owning a pair.  Though I just had a moment of temporary insanity where I almost sold mine because I needed some extra cash.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I concur...I just received my pair today and they don't sound much like what they are usually described to be like. These are energetic, yes, but not as feathery as they are known to be. The bass is not light. It is there and it is deep. A little lighter than my LCD-3s, but it is still complex and very present (I'm using a Yulong D18 and a Little Dot VI+ with stock tubes). The highs are present, but not shrill. The sound is really refined and feels like it's being delivered by a juggernaut with a gentle touch, in that it never goes overboard with what should be presented. I was a little scared about getting these, what with the comparisons to "high strung F1 cars" and what not, but these slipped in perfectly into my system. Color me impressed!
  Quote: 





solude said:


> I've had four amps with the HD800 and only 2 could dig some good solid bass out of it.  The Soloist and GS-X mk2.  The B22 and Peak didn't really do it for me.


 
   
  I used to own the Soloist and it could get good, deep bass out of every headphone I used to own. My only problem with the amp was with the LCD-3s...while I could get a nice sound out of it, the combo sounded sleepy. So, for a replacement, I picked up the Little Dot VI+. The amp, even with stock tubes, drives the HD800 to deafening levels on regular gain and the bass is comparable to my LCD3s. Not as present in terms of quantity, but it's still there. I still miss the neat little package of the Soloist, though. Does the Soloist have enough headroom for the HD800, seeing as how the amp wasn't designed for higher impedance phones. Could you compare the Soloist+HD800 combo to say, the Mjolnir+HD800 combo, perhaps?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





froger said:


> Nope, Solude was suggesting on the source. I am currently using Master 7 dac as the source and Master 8 as the amp  Audio-gd naming does need some improvements it seems, ha...


 
   





  My bad..


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





varyv said:


> Could you compare the Soloist+HD800 combo to say, the Mjolnir+HD800 combo, perhaps?


 
   
  Never had the two at the same time   The Soloist is definitely not designed for low impedance only.  It can swing more voltage than most amps but also enjoys lots of current drive.  Remember the HD800 only needs 240mV to play at 90dB.  Soloist does ~10,000mV into the HD800.


----------



## PinkLed

Im considering selling the Schiit stack (lyr+bifrost) for a vioelectric v200/v800 or burson conductor. Has anyone had experience with both of these? Or I may keep the bifrost and simply get a soloist or a v200. Is this a bad idea? What do you guys think. Im trying to make my HD800's low end more comparable to the LCD 2 r2. 
   
  Side note, has anyone tried the HD800's with the new woo wa7?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> Im considering selling the Schiit stack (lyr+bifrost) for a vioelectric v200/v800 or burson conductor. Has anyone had experience with both of these? Or I may keep the bifrost and simply get a soloist or a v200. Is this a bad idea? What do you guys think. Im trying to make my HD800's low end more comparable to the LCD 2 r2.
> 
> Side note, has anyone tried the HD800's with the new woo wa7?


 
   
  Why not a higher end Schiit Stack?


----------



## MR22

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> Im considering selling the Schiit stack (lyr+bifrost) for a vioelectric v200/v800 or burson conductor. Has anyone had experience with both of these? Or I may keep the bifrost and simply get a soloist or a v200. Is this a bad idea? What do you guys think. Im trying to make my HD800's low end more comparable to the LCD 2 r2.
> 
> Side note, has anyone tried the HD800's with the *new woo wa7?*


 
   
  oh I'm trying! probably Tuesday the WA7 will be on order


----------



## Solude

I thought the Mjolnir was pretty bright with the LCD-3, can only imagine with the HD800.  The Conductor is a safe choice known to gel well with the HD800.


----------



## olor1n

solude said:


> I thought the Mjolnir was pretty bright with the LCD-3, can only imagine with the HD800...




You probably needed to hear the Mjolnir with a different DAC behind it. Replacing the Gungnir with the M51 solved all the niggles I had with the HD800.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> Im considering selling the Schiit stack (lyr+bifrost) for a vioelectric v200/v800 or burson conductor. Has anyone had experience with both of these? Or I may keep the bifrost and simply get a soloist or a v200. Is this a bad idea? What do you guys think. Im trying to make my HD800's low end more comparable to the LCD 2 r2.
> 
> Side note, has anyone tried the HD800's with the new woo wa7?


 
  HD800 and Conductor review pretty accurate review http://www.head-fi.org/t/644128/audiophile-by-accident-the-hobby-an-unexpected-journey/


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> You probably needed to hear the Mjolnir with a different DAC behind it. Replacing the Gungnir with the M51 solved all the niggles I had with the HD800.


 
   
  Maybe, I had the W4S DAC-2 at the time.  The PWD2 is brighter than the W4S though so waiting on the Statement with tube front end to be able to tune it.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> Im considering selling the Schiit stack (lyr+bifrost) for a vioelectric v200/v800 or burson conductor. Has anyone had experience with both of these? Or I may keep the bifrost and simply get a soloist or a v200. Is this a bad idea? What do you guys think. Im trying to make my HD800's low end more comparable to the LCD 2 r2.
> 
> Side note, has anyone tried the HD800's with the new woo wa7?


 
   
  I got the Conductor shortly after I got the HD800s because I thought I wasn't getting enough out of the 800s with my Lyr/Bifrost.  The Conductor blows the Lyr/Bifrost away.  Problem is I'm now using the Conductor with all my phones and my Lyr/Bifrost and tube collection is starting to gather dust.  Not to mention the LD MK IV/se.


----------



## PinkLed

> I got the Conductor shortly after I got the HD800s because I thought I wasn't getting enough out of the 800s with my Lyr/Bifrost.  The Conductor blows the Lyr/Bifrost away.  Problem is I'm now using the Conductor with all my phones and my Lyr/Bifrost and tube collection is starting to gather dust.  Not to mention the LD MK IV/se.


 
  Thanks all. I beleive the Soloist is the the same amp as the Conductor, just has no dac. Since im loving the bifrost with uber I might end up getting the barebone soloist and paring it with the bifrost. Mjolnir looks really nice but its so big and I also dont have xlr cables. For now.


----------



## bbbonthemoon

I have Conductor and had Bifrost also at the same time, 
  I can say the dacs are very different, Conductor's dac is substantially more resolving, with high quality recordings difference is quite huge. But at the same time it is very unforgiving, with older, lower quality records I just couldnt use it, and switched to Bifrost, which was more forgiving and easier to my ears. But for high resolving headphones like HD800 I think I would recommend Conductor's DAC instead of Bifrost, to get most out of them. I didnt hear Bifrost with uber analog upgrade though.


----------



## rgs9200m

I think one of the nicest things about the HD800 is the way it holds a bass note with barely a trace of quiver. 
  A sustained bass note is hard to get right and on the HD800 it's a real joy.


----------



## Solude

Yep and your B52 is a great match for it and other high impedance cans.  Now if only there were other good high impedance cans


----------



## Mambosenior

rgs9200m said:


> I think one of the nicest things about the HD800 is the way it holds a bass note with barely a trace of quiver.
> A sustained bass note is hard to get right and on the HD800 it's a real joy.




...as well as being able to hear the exact pitch of a very low bass note and not just a deep thump.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





mambosenior said:


> ...as well as being able to hear the exact pitch of a very low bass note and not just a deep thump.


 
  Yep. A tuneful bass I think it's called.


----------



## wink

The HD800 is the only phone I have that can reproduce the growl of a piano when the bass notes are being played.
   
  I have stood behind a few people playing a piano and always loved the way a piano can do that.


----------



## LugBug1

Double bass.... Tight and earthy, no bloom. But deep as need be.


----------



## ozz007

Hello all, First post here I been doing a lot of reading and, I bought a few items here.
now i need some help deciding on what to buy for my HD800/Grados V4 etc.

I listen to my music pretty much on my computer or on the go. so this will be for the computer. 

I got all my music in Apple Los less and also converted all my music using Foobar 2000 to FLAC,
http://www.head-fi.org/t/555263/foobar2000-dolby-headphone-config-comment-discuss

My pc has the Titanium HD card, I can use RCA out or SPDIF,

ok so this is what i got, Asgard Amp, Sicphones Amp and a NFB-12. which i can setup several different ways.


So my dilemma is this, Keep what I got. Or


Choice 1

Bitfrost with Uber and USB + LYR +cables all total comes out to $1035$1,035.00

Choice 2

Woo audio Fireflies WA7 with match gold pin tubes. $1134 + Cables
No cables this will have to be added. 

Choice 3
Don't buy anything keep what i got and be happy. 

So which one of these choices you guys think will give me better enjoyment ?

Thanks in advance.

Ozz


----------



## wink

Notice in advance:-
  Sorry about your wallet.
   
  You have 3 choices.
  1/ Do the incremental upgrade to your endgame setup. That's called smelling the flowers along the way.
   
  2/ Get a Stax and topline amp to drive it.  Get a great DAC. That's called cutting to the chase.
   
  3/ Be happy with what you have now.  That's called quitting while you're behind. Not good for the desire to own the best there is, but, you'll spare your wallet from haemorrhaging.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





wink said:


> Notice in advance:-
> Sorry about your wallet.
> 
> You have 3 choices.
> ...


 
   
  LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! so true!


----------



## MickeyVee

ozz007.. what is your system lis lacking right now?
   
  I haven't heard the Asgard but by all reading, the Lyr is definitely a step ahead.  If you go Lyr, factor in the cost of tube rolling, at lease a set of Amerex Orange Globes.  I've been looking into the WA7 and that may be an incremental step over the Lyr.
   
  If you're going to use SPDIF or Coax, do you need the USB option on the Bifrost? The Uber is a nice upgrade.  I really don't hear any difference between my USB and Optical inputs.
   
  Th Bifrost Uber/Lyr combo is quite nice but nowhere near an end game.  Same with the WA7 from what I've read. I may just stop at the WA7 for simplicity's sake.


----------



## ozz007

mickeyvee said:


> ozz007.. what is your system lis lacking right now?
> 
> I haven't heard the Asgard but by all reading, the Lyr is definitely a step ahead.  If you go Lyr, factor in the cost of tube rolling, at lease a set of Amerex Orange Globes.  I've been looking into the WA7 and that may be an incremental step over the Lyr.
> 
> ...




To be honest don't know what I'm looking for, I guess a better sound for what I read tubes is the way to go.
I do use the spdif I never use the USB. I had check between the spdif and the analog RCA out and I can't tell any major difference in sound or detail.

WA7 looks like a very nice package so with this one I would had to use the analog out of my card. 

Bitfrost/lyr sounds like it could be a good sounding option since the u er upgrade since to make the sou d better, and lyr well is always the option of tubes rolling.

I guess what I'm looking is a set up that will make the sound their best with the budget I have.


----------



## MickeyVee

If you go WA7, use your USB output. I'm pretty sure that the DAC in the WA7 will surpass the one in your PC (using analog out).
  If you go Bifrost Uber/Lyr, use your Coax or Optical. Order with PYST cables so they stack nicely.
  Good Luck!


----------



## zigy626

I am using the HD800 with Audiolab M-DAC and Meier Corda Jazz. So the question is am I getting the best out of my HD800's or should I upgrade the Amp asap? Thanks


----------



## Solude

I'll just say that $385 is not the ceiling of the HD800 and leave it at that.


----------



## palmfish

The HD800 is not a difficult headphone to drive. It doesnt know or care how much your amp costs.


----------



## BournePerfect

It sure as heck is a picky headphone though as far as amplification...and speaking from experience, I've yet to hear a sub 1K amp that even started to do it justice other than an Auditor-and even that is a pretty polarizing choice. The ZDSE though...mmm mmm mmm.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Solude

True, except that all of the amps it does care to like have been $1000+.  There have also been amps in the $1000+ it didn't care for.  So yes price doesn't matter as far as pay more than this and you're good.  But it does matter in that no amps under $X can feed the HD800 in a way I find worth listening to.  My $X is $1000 and it's the Soloist.  On the B22, Peak, HA-160D... no thanks. Those made the HD800 a distant flat lifeless mess.


----------



## Mambosenior

palmfish said:


> The HD800 is not a difficult headphone to drive. It doesnt know or care how much your amp costs.




After four years of owning the HD-800, it is my opinion that your first sentence is not accurate (unless you are speaking merely of achieving sound and not the best SQ possible), and the second sentence is very true.


----------



## Mambosenior

Sorry. Double post


----------



## Mambosenior

Sorry again!


----------



## negura

Sure you will get sound with the HD800s out of anything. Whether one is expecting more than that is anyone's option. I've not found any inexpensive gear that does them justice. I agree with one of the above posters that 1k is about where the real joy starts.


----------



## preproman

Amp wise - I'm at $2.5K for them to sound the best I've heard thus far.  I still think I can get more goodness out of them.  Next year, looking at a "GOOD" tube amp.. DNA Stratus, EC 2A3, EC BA, or something...


----------



## MelvinV

You just need an amp with no distortion, a lot of voltage swing and high voltage and a high current. You don't need balanced XLR custom hand-crafted in Chinese sweatshops ultra long crystal vaporized silver plated solid gold conductions with ultra high purity copper core cables or ultra exclusive hand-crafted wooden outer shell made from the last tropical tree type X on the planet which is only found in the secret oasis' hidden in ocean volcanoes.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Amp wise - I'm at $2.5K for them to sound the best I've heard thus far.  I still think I can get more goodness out of them.  Next year, looking at a "GOOD" tube amp.. DNA Stratus, EC 2A3, EC BA, or something...


 
   
  +1
   
  i will probably get a better amp next year as well, but i think i'll keep my woos


----------



## palmfish

The Violectric V90 and Lake People G109-S both cost less than $500 and have plenty of power to drive the HD800 (or almost any headphone).

If I was shopping for a headphone amp, they would be at the top of my list.


----------



## preproman

I don't think power has ever been a question.  I think the headphone being "stuck up" is the issue..


----------



## olor1n

Don't forget the quality of source components. People fixate on just the amp, but all the funds poured into it is a waste if what it amplifies is garbage.


----------



## fishski13

preproman said:


> I don't think power has ever been a question.  I think the headphone being "stuck up" is the issue..


----------



## Solude

Also true.  I really didn't like the HD800 on my other rigs but it's awesome on this rig.  It's so good that I keep getting the itch to get another LCD-3 just to see if the same 'wow' moment can happen with the can.  Well that and dropping it all for a 009.  But that's a whole other level of insanity


----------



## negura

Quote: 





solude said:


> Also true.  I really didn't like the HD800 on my other rigs but it's awesome on this rig.  It's so good that I keep getting the itch to get another LCD-3 just to see if the same 'wow' moment can happen with the can.  Well that and dropping it all for a 009.  But that's a whole other level of insanity


 
   
  The 009 and the dark side of the forums has you.  That said, the LCD-3s sound fantastic on good gear too. I had a big rave with the HD800s for quite a while on my system and the love is still there, but I have made a couple of tweaks and it's party time with the LCD-3s too. Oh and what seemed to have further helped is getting some good burn-in on the LCD-3s (a few hundred hours).


----------



## negura

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Don't forget the quality of source components. People fixate on just the amp, but all the funds poured into it is a waste if what it amplifies is garbage.


 
   
  +1. This is so very true. It's a bit of catch-22 really, as you need both a great amplifier and DAC to hear it all fitting together. And I would mention a good interface unless you're lucky to own one of the ... 2-3 DACs that actually have a truly worthwhile one.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





negura said:


> The 009 and the dark side of the forums has you.


 
   
  A return to the mafia really since before the ortho invasion I had a Stax 007 Mk1 and HeadAmp KGSS.  I preferred the LCD-2 Rev1 in the end but it could have been the DAC.  Orthos have a way of smoothing out grain that stats throw up without excuses.


----------



## skeptic

I'll respectfully dissent on the price issue.  There are some high priced amps that pair wonderfully with hd800's, but there are also great budget and diy options.
   
  I've done the rounds at CanJam, and a bottlehead crack with speedball is simply an excellent pairing with hd800's - period.  See the reviews by headphonia (http://www.headfonia.com/bottlehead-crack-otl-addiction/3/ ), innerfidelity, guttenberg, and numerous other posters in the crack thread and bh forums if you want further confirmation.  Note that this really is a kit that can be easily built by someone with no prior diy experience - it is the diy equivalent of paint by numbers, with a PDF manual containing a macro photo of every single step.  As an aside, I just hopped on the pre-order for bottlehead's new flagship amp (the "mainline") and can't wait to see how it compares to my modded crack.  
   
  To pick this apart a little further - Solude's praise of the gsx -> hd800 pairing further underscores my point.  What we're talking about here is a beautifully executed, balanced commercial version of Dr. Gilmore's dynalo - a 15 year old diy design.  Dynalo's used to, and occasionally still do, turn up used for <$300 on head-fi.  In fact, there used to be a Chinese commercial version (Sheer Audio) for around that price.  In any event, double that for a 4 channel version and throw in a o22 power supply.  It doesn't take more than $1k to get there.  For that matter, per spritzer's recent posts, a dynalo mk2 is in the works that will feature balanced boards with super symetry, higher voltage swing, and will use semis that are all currently in production.  It should be an absolutely awesome diy option for anyone willing to take on case work.  
   
So sure there are a lot of cheap, poorly designed amps out there that will do nothing to make the hd800's more enjoyable than the output of a half decent HTR - but there are also many expensive amps that fall into the same camp.  It is erroneous, imo, to suggest that you have to spend big bucks to find an amp with great synergy.  Cracks go used for $500-600 all the time.  At the end of the day, I just want to make sure folks aren't being scared away from these great headphones based on the false mythology that they require a megabuck amp and dac to sound great.


----------



## Solude

The question started with someone asking if their mid line Corda was the ceiling... it clearly isn't.
   
  The amp you mention is actually the Dynahi SuSy not Dynalo.
   
  The previous Lite and GS-1 models were not voiced quite the same as the mk2, nevermind my original Reference.  I don't know if it's the new parts used or bias but the mk2 boards just slam out the bass.  I've always felt my previous Dynalo amps were on the dry side, perfect in a world of HD600/650, not so fun with the HD800, but the mk2 is just smooth as butter.  I know it doesn't sound possible but there it is.
   
  Is the Crack a great combo?  I don't know, never tried.  I would like to try their 2A3 amp though.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> The question started with someone asking if their mid line Corda was the ceiling... it clearly isn't.
> 
> *The amp you mention is actually the Dynahi SuSy not Dynalo.*
> 
> ...


 
   
  Spritzer is coming out with a dynalo mk2, wasn't aware it's SuSy..


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





skeptic said:


> I'll respectfully dissent on the price issue.  There are some high priced amps that pair wonderfully with hd800's, but there are also great budget and diy options.
> 
> I've done the rounds at CanJam, and a bottlehead crack with speedball is simply an excellent pairing with hd800's - period.  See the reviews by headphonia (http://www.headfonia.com/bottlehead-crack-otl-addiction/3/ ), innerfidelity, guttenberg, and numerous other posters in the crack thread and bh forums if you want further confirmation.  Note that this really is a kit that can be easily built by someone with no prior diy experience - it is the diy equivalent of paint by numbers, with a PDF manual containing a macro photo of every single step.  As an aside, I just hopped on the pre-order for bottlehead's new flagship amp (the "mainline") and can't wait to see how it compares to my modded crack.
> 
> ...


 
  +1 here,  I thought my Schit Stack (Asgard 2/Uber bifrost) did a respectable job of driving and sounding very nice with my HD800. Yes, it is SS and there is a definite _difference_ between it and my Taboo MKIII, but it comes down to preferences in the end and it depends on how much you want to spend and play with the sound.  Trying to suggest you _have_  to spend $1000's to be happy is wrong. 
  Relying on subjective opinions about _"The BEST SQ in the World"_ can only come from spending big $'s is also just 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





solude said:


> Also true.  I really didn't like the HD800 on my other rigs but it's awesome on this rig.  It's so good that I keep getting the itch to get another LCD-3 just to see if the same 'wow' moment can happen with the can.  Well that and dropping it all for a 009.  But that's a whole other level of insanity


 
   
  You just might have that same "wow" moment. IMO the LCD-3 doesn't scale as dramatically as the HD800, but neither does it have the LCD-2's hard ceiling. Moving from numerous tube and solid state amps to my current BHA-1, I've seen improvement in every step. I suspect things would continue to trend upward with the new GS-X and one of the FOTM tube amp champs.
   
  As for the SR-009... well, your rig might produce different results, but for me the price-performance ratio just didn't work when I dropped the 727II and SR-009 into my current setup (Clearaudio Concept & Grace m903). I very well may have felt differently if I'd upgraded all the way along the chain, but I discovered that I didn't have the stomach for that kind of adventure.


----------



## BournePerfect

The Dynalo sucks with the HD800. Like Solude said-dry. I'll add brittle, thin and piercing as well. As do scores of other cheaper amps, and some expensive ones too I'd imagine. To all the people price-gagging on here: we are well aware that if somebody were to charge 2K for a cmoy-it would still sound like crap.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## palmfish

In your opinion


----------



## technica18

What do you guys think of the WA2 with HD800? I'm enjoying the Burson SL but it can still be a little edgy at times in the highs and I'm looking to smooth it out more and add a more body to the sound.


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





technica18 said:


> What do you guys think of the WA2 with HD800? I'm enjoying the Burson SL but it can still be a little edgy at times in the highs and I'm looking to smooth it out more and add a more body to the sound.


 
  What source are you using?  The Soloist SL is a fairly smooth and full bodied amp with the HD800 but still relatively transparent to the source characteristics.


----------



## skeptic

Prepro - Yup.  Dynalo mk2 does have SuSy: one channel per board, unbalanced or balanced in, balanced out.
   
Solude - I enjoyed your description of the improvements in the gsx-mkii as compared to earlier dynalo's.  It is definitely an amp I would love to hear at some point in the not too distant future.  I've actually accumulated most of the parts for a dynahi (on the 04 boards) but have some things yet to learn before attempting the build (among others, exactly how to integrate the necessary off-board heatsinks).  Too bad much of the info that used to exist on headwize and djgardnerer appears to have vanished into the ether.  
   
Hope you have a chance to sample the crack with hd800's at some point.  It really is an enjoyable combo.  I would love to hear both the 300B and 2A3 configurations of the  paramounts at some point as well - ideally hooked up to some of the recommended blumenstein orcas.  But from Doc's description, I think mainline will be the new bottlehead standard for hp amps.  Can't wait for my kit to ship in late June.
   
BearFNF - cheers and thanks for the concurring post!


----------



## hekeli

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> The Violectric V90 and Lake People G109-S both cost less than $500 and have plenty of power to drive the HD800 (or almost any headphone).
> 
> If I was shopping for a headphone amp, they would be at the top of my list.


 
   
  Yes I don't get it. G109-S is on par to me with the more expensive V200/Soloist, didn't hear the need to splash more cash. "Full potential" sounds pretty much like "subjective synergy" to me. Who can with a serious face tell that the specs aren't enough to run HD800 without missing anything? If some day I hear a verifiable change to better I might jump on it, but I don't take things on "faith".. in the mean time, I'm pretty happy with Realiser and other DSP providing all the tuning I need, these actually _change_ the sound without having to second guess anything.


----------



## wink

Quote:MelvinV 





> You don't need balanced XLR custom hand-crafted in Chinese sweatshops ultra long crystal vaporized silver plated solid gold conductions with ultra high purity copper core cables or ultra exclusive hand-crafted wooden outer shell made from the last tropical tree type X on the planet which is only found in the secret oasis' hidden in ocean volcanoes.


 
  .... but it does help enormously....  if the cable has been polarised in the correct direction....


----------



## technica18

jwahl said:


> What source are you using?  The Soloist SL is a fairly smooth and full bodied amp with the HD800 but still relatively transparent to the source characteristics.




I'm using a Squeezebox Duet into a Bifrost. Have you heard the WA2, if so, can you comment on the difference between it and the SL?


----------



## MelvinV

bourneperfect said:


> The Dynalo sucks with the HD800. Like Solude said-dry. I'll add brittle, thin and piercing as well. As do scores of other cheaper amps, and some expensive ones too I'd imagine. To all the people price-gagging on here: we are well aware that if somebody were to charge 2K for a cmoy-it would still sound like crap.
> 
> -Daniel



 
 Yeah, there is not enough wubwubwub with that amplifier, especially noticeable on dubstep radio streaming.  
 


wink said:


> .... but it does help enormously.... if the cable has been polarised in the correct direction....



 
 Yeah, it's not like the cable exists only of copper (and silver plating), the atoms have been covered with the BetterSoundA+™ solution for a tremendous increase in sound quality. Unfortunately modern measuring equipment is still too bad to measure a difference, but the human ear is so much better so it can tell!  - Dr. Dre


----------



## wink

Quote:MelvinV 





> Yeah, there is not enough wubwubwub with that amplifier, especially noticeable on dubstep radio streaming.


 




   
   
  Quote:As Above


> wink said:
> 
> 
> > .... but it does help enormously.... if the cable has been polarised in the correct direction....
> ...


 
  The cryo treatment is superb, especially if the crying is done by the crocodiles in the Nile River at sunrise on the vernal equinox and gathered by nubile wenches with Czechoslovakian crystal eyedroppers.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





melvinv said:


> Yeah, there is not enough wubwubwub with that amplifier, especially noticeable on dubstep radio streaming.


 
   
  there has to be wubwubwub!!!!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





technica18 said:


> What do you guys think of the WA2 with HD800? I'm enjoying the Burson SL but it can still be a little edgy at times in the highs and I'm looking to smooth it out more and add a more body to the sound.


 
   
   
  the WA2 is very smooth with HD 800, i don't notice much grain or edge with this amp, much less than WA6-SE. not the most detailed amp out there, but its very good with HD 800 for those who want a more forgiving presentation. it becomes more transparent and detailed as you get better tubes, so you gotta keep that in mind (probably the 1190$ WA2 + a couple hundred on getting good tubes). also the WA2 has very nice bass with hd 800, though it might not be the tightest or the more textured, but its still very musical and good overall.
   
  haven't heard the burson SL, but im sure the WA2 will have less edge and more body.


----------



## ffivaz

skeptic said:


> I've done the rounds at CanJam, and a bottlehead crack with speedball is simply an excellent pairing with hd800's - period.  See the reviews by headphonia (http://www.headfonia.com/bottlehead-crack-otl-addiction/3/
> ), innerfidelity, guttenberg, and numerous other posters in the crack thread and bh forums if you want further confirmation.  Note that this really is a kit that can be easily built by someone with no prior diy experience - it is the diy equivalent of paint by numbers, with a PDF manual containing a macro photo of every single step.  As an aside, I just hopped on the pre-order for bottlehead's new flagship amp (the "mainline") and can't wait to see how it compares to my modded crack.




+1 The BH Crack, even w/o speedball, drives beautifully everything from sennheiser that starts with HD


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





skeptic said:


> Prepro - Yup.  Dynalo mk2 does have SuSy: one channel per board, unbalanced or balanced in, balanced out.


 
   
  Hit up the source and it's GS-X mk2 like but the name is actually Multiamp.  Then again a rose by another amp, is still a rose


----------



## LugBug1

$450 Rdac- $150 SX550 receiver - HD800 - Big smile. 
   
  I'm sorry but it is absolute pony to claim that the HD800's sound weak, thin, harsh etc. on any amp below $1000. Heck, even the $250 M-stage sounds very good with them. There must be some poor sources used here...
   
  Honestly guys lets get real


----------



## negura

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> $450 Rdac- $150 SX550 receiver - HD800 - Big smile.
> 
> I'm sorry but it is absolute pony to claim that the HD800's sound weak, thin, harsh etc. on any amp below $1000. Heck, even the $250 M-stage sounds very good with them. There must be some poor sources used here...
> 
> Honestly guys lets get real


 
   
  This being audiophile land, it's all a matter of perspective and anyone's acceptance criteria as "very good" sound. If anyone is happy with the HD800s sound on mid-fi, that is great. Your wallet will love you, or at least not hate you as much. The HD800s are brilliant headphones and I personally have a different view of what's sounding great with them.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





negura said:


> This being audiophile land, it's all a matter of perspective and anyone's acceptance criteria as "very good" sound. If anyone is happy with the HD800s sound on mid-fi, that is great. Your wallet will love you, or at least not hate you as much. The HD800s are brilliant headphones and I personally have a different view of what's sounding great with them.


 
  Agreed and that goes without saying 
   
  Its just the talk of them sounding 'distant, thin and weak' on less expensive amps that confuses me. Never heard them sound like that yet. I've heard them sound a little muddy on a cheaper tube amp and maybe a little veiled too. But none of the above 
   
  My point was, the claim that an amp needs to be over $1000 is a bit silly. Even the amp that Sennheiser promoted the HD800's with when they first released them doesn't cost this much.


----------



## palmfish

I love the term "mid-fi." Its a great way for people who spend a lot on "hi-fi" to feel they got their money's worth. The only difference between "mid" and "hi" in my book is cosmetics, build quality, and sometimes features. 

A Cadillac Escalade by any other name is a Chevy Tahoe...


----------



## Solude

I think part of it might come down to, compared to what?  On those other amps the HD800 doesn't have the bass depth of an LCD-3 or impact of the LCD-2 or as forward as either.  Or it's a matter of not using a dB metre.  dB for dB the HD800 sounds quieter than it is on the metre.  So if you give it some more juice to make it sound as loud... it's louder which brings things in line but it's not fair.
   
  Even as much I love the Burson Soloist, easily the best amp I've heard for the HD800 and LCD series for that matter... the GS-X mk2 has much more bass presence and drive with butter smooth delivery.  I am very glad I changed my mind on cancelling the GS-X mk2.  I had thought it would be  another GS-1 with more power but no, it's quite the jump.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> The only difference between "mid" and "hi" in my book is cosmetics, build quality, and sometimes features.


 
   
  Like the B22 or not, it costs ~$850 in parts nevermind labour so you can't sell one for less, just cause.  Even an ugly featureless one.
   
  That is not to say that price=quality.  You can have a high build cost and still have an amp that is completely fubar.  And there are absolutely manufacturers that take a $800 BOM and drive the price way up because they can get away with it.


----------



## rawrster

I'm not too sure where the mjolnir is in comparison to amps over 1k except the gsx mk2 which imo I'd a great amp but more than what I want to spend and I'm not that patient. I think the amp I have does a pretty good job at under 1k. The problem I have is that I'm a ss guy and no amp over 1k really is that interesting to buy other than the gsx2 but funds are going elsewhere as the mjolnir is probably as high as I go until I hear about the Schiit statement amp


----------



## zigy626

Recently I had a conversation with someone who was using the HD800 with Voilectric V200 and Audiolab M-DAC. To my surprise they said that the Headphone out from the M-DAC sounded more or less the same as from V200. This surprised me a lot as he was thinking of selling the V200 and just using the M-DAC. I am having the same experience the output from Corda Jazz is not any different from the M-DAC headphone out.


----------



## Solude

So an opamp followed by a buffer, sounds like an opamp followed by a buffer?  Say it isn't so


----------



## palmfish

My contention is that it doesnt cost $1000+ to make (and market) a "wire with gain." Now if a person wants an amp that "tames" this and boosts "that" then more power to them, but in my opinion, it's a waste of time and money. The HD800 doesn't care if your amp has an Alps pot or stepped attenuator; discrete monoblock or opamp gain stage, or pretty blue lights on the front. All the HD800 knows is Ohm's Law.
   
  At our last meet, while Doc B was working on his new DAC (it wasnt working), he borrowed my Benchmark DAC1 to feed his new Mainline amp (source was his Mac music server). This gave me the chance to compare his amp directly with the Benchmark's headphone output. The result? I couldn't tell the difference. And I've already compared the Benchmark to my Pioneer AVR - also no audible difference. Later, when Doc B got his DAC up and running, I was able to compare his DAC to the Benchmark and the difference was noticeable. His DAC was warmer and more liquid sounding where the Benchmark was more articulate. Did his DAC sound "better?" No, just different. Was it different because of the chipset or the different upsampling? No, it was probably the tube pre-out.
   
  I readily acknowledge the enthusiast hobby aspect of this pursuit and also individual taste. I have heard some lovely tube amps over the years that do wonders to certain genres of music. I will probably never forget the day I listened to Diana Krall's "The look of Love" on my old HD600's driven by a Jolida tube DAC and amp rig. It blew me away - so luscious and spacious sounding. Of course, the same rig made Fleetwood Mac "Rumours" sound like crap. For me, I'm much happier using the "neutral" upstream gear I have and relying on EQ to tweak the sound on an album by album basis. My receiver may never be able to recreate that "Krall moment" for me (for which I am a little sad), but neither will I ever have to endure that "Fleetwood Mac moment."


----------



## rgs9200m

My pinnacle w/the hd800 sounds spectacular (just different) with the Diana Krall and the Fleetwood Mac. (The EMM DAC helps.)


----------



## Solude

Must be nice.  I know my wallet would prefer to spend money on music than gear but everything has a sound sig, though some are very close, and though price isn't tied to results... good amps made by makers in the business of making money don't give them away just because they don't have a high BOM.


----------



## zigy626

I wish I would have an extra $1000 just sitting around to experiment what kind of sound I can get from HD800's by switching different Amp's. But Sadly I have already spend around $2800 on the whole setup. And this is the most I have ever spent on a Hi-Fi setup.


----------



## MelvinV

I heard that the latest in cable technology is a kind of very airy tropical wood infused with natriumchloride-solution, the electrons liquefy causing a very liquid and smooth sounding cable with superior bass.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





solude said:


> Must be nice.  I know my wallet would prefer to spend money on music than gear but everything has a sound sig, though some are very close, and though price isn't tied to results... good amps made by makers in the business of making money don't give them away just because they don't have a high BOM.


 
   
  Everything has a sound signature, yes, but many are so close that the differences are imperceptible. And many more are perceptible, but only with very close, volume matched, eye squinting concentration. The only differences that are worth pursuing, IMO, are the big, obvious differences - and those, more often than not, are a matter of taste rather than superiority.
   
  When I was going through my HiFiMAN phase, I remember discussing the "synergy" of finding an amp that helps the HE-500 "scale up." Members wanted to beef up the bass to LCD-2 levels, or increase the micro detail, etc. I couldnt help but think that instead of searching endlessly for upstream components that made the HiFiMAN's "sing," maybe they should just find another headphone that sings all by itself. For me, that headphone is the HD800.
   
  So I have no issue with plugging my $1500 headphones into a $400 amplifier. Of course others will disagree, but for me, there's no more pleasure or performance to be had by spending more.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Everything has a sound signature, yes, but many are so close that the differences are imperceptible. And many more are perceptible, but only with very close, volume matched, eye squinting concentration. The only differences that are worth pursuing, IMO, are the big, obvious differences - and those, more often than not, are a matter of taste rather than superiority.
> 
> When I was going through my HiFiMAN phase, I remember discussing the "synergy" of finding an amp that helps the HE-500 "scale up." Members wanted to beef up the bass to LCD-2 levels, or increase the micro detail, etc. I couldnt help but think that instead of searching endlessly for upstream components that made the HiFiMAN's "sing," maybe they should just find another headphone that sings all by itself. For me, that headphone is the HD800.
> 
> So I have no issue with plugging my $1500 headphones into a $400 amplifier. Of course others will disagree, but for me, there's no more pleasure or performance to be had by spending mor


 
  Palmfish what kind of setup are you using with your HD800's?


----------



## paradoxper

Dang! Ya'll just keep leavin' the source out. Poor guy. 
   
   
  Solude, go throw the O2 in with the GS-X and HD800 and report back.


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Dang! Ya'll just keep leavin' the source out. Poor guy.
> 
> 
> Solude, go throw the O2 in with the GS-X and HD800 and report back.


 
  Then the objective crowd will flood in and say any differences are due to the O2 being more transparent than the Gs-X


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Dang! Ya'll just keep leavin' the source out. Poor guy.
> 
> 
> Solude, go throw the O2 in with the GS-X and HD800 and report back.


 
   
  There is only one O2 and it's the Stax SR-007 MkI.  I won't sully its good name by calling something else by the same name


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





solude said:


> There is only one O2 and it's the Stax SR-007 MkI.  I won't sully its good name by calling something else by the same name


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> There is only one O2 and it's the Stax SR-007 MkI. * I won't sully its good name by calling something else by the same name *


----------



## LugBug1

O2MG!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> O2MG!


 
  Na, we're not talking about Cavalli Audio.


----------



## LugBug1

Oh 2 bad..


----------



## kiwikaki

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Recently I had a conversation with someone who was using the HD800 with Voilectric V200 and Audiolab M-DAC. To my surprise they said that the Headphone out from the M-DAC sounded more or less the same as from V200. This surprised me a lot as he was thinking of selling the V200 and just using the M-DAC. I am having the same experience the output from Corda Jazz is not any different from the M-DAC headphone out.


 
  you should be happy with the mdac, very good combo. Keep in mind that westlake makes you change the power supply and it also benefits the headphone output .....
  for now I am satisfied with my middle ring mdac/Hd800


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Palmfish what kind of setup are you using with your HD800's?


 
   
  Upstairs, I mostly listen to my Logitech Squeezebox Touch plugged into my Pioneer VSX-1122 via analog RCA. My entire music collection is CD's and DVD-A's ripped to FLAC with dBpoweramp. When I want to spin a disc (I own a lot of SACD's), I use my Pioneer Elite DV-79AVi universal player. It's also hooked up to the VSX-1122 with analog RCA. I also have a turntable and cassette deck in this system.
   
  Downstairs I have another Squeezebox Touch hooked up to my Pioneer Elite SC-25 via TOSLINK and an Oppo BDP-83 universal player hooked up to the SC-25 via HDMI.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> cassette deck in this system.


 
   





  Do you still have cassettes as well?  Do they still work


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Do you still have cassettes as well?  Do they still work


 
  Doesnt everybody !


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Do you still have cassettes as well?  Do they still work


 
   
  Quote: 





mikelap said:


> Doesnt everybody !


 
  Couple hundred here...some not so good, but most still work fine.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> Doesnt everybody !


 
   
   
  My daughter is 19, I doubt if she even knows what a cassette looks like.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





preproman said:


> My daughter is 19, I doubt if she even knows what a cassette looks like.


 
  To this day i still cant believe this when i gave my son my 1970's  sound system he wanted to play a record he didnt know where to start like what to do whith the tone arm wow, am i old or what,  it hit me hard man !


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Do you still have cassettes as well?  Do they still work


 
   
  Yup, I still have them and they still work!


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> To this day i still cant believe this when i gave my son my 1970's  sound system he wanted to play a record he didnt know where to start like what to do whith the tone arm wow, am i old or what,  it hit me hard man !


 
   
  I had to teach my daughter how to use the turntable too. The entire ritual step by step - remove the record only touching the edges. Lay it on the platter. How to clean it. Etc...  She could care less about the cassettes - come to think of it, I could care less about them too. I just like having them around.


----------



## silversurfer616

Repeating myself here but vintage receivers are the way to get the best out of the HD800!


----------



## preproman

I don't buy that.


----------



## Solude

Vintage receiver is tonally synergetic because of huge output impedances.  Cranks the bottom up and leave the treble where it was.  Also mean little to no dampening so the HD800 doesn't sound as tight.  Much in the same way OTL, ZDSE excluded, are.


----------



## silversurfer616

Well said....!


----------



## preproman

Sounds like garbage on my Denon.   Not so much vintage I guess but it's pretty old.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





solude said:


> Vintage receiver is tonally synergetic because of huge output impedances.  Cranks the bottom up and leave the treble where it was.  Also mean little to no dampening so the HD800 doesn't sound as tight.  Much in the same way OTL, ZDSE excluded, are.


 
   
  Huge output inpedance is why is sounds so bad to me. My Carver Receiver and Pioneer SA-5800 both make the HD800 sound muddly and bloated to my ears.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Sounds like garbage on my Denon.   Not so much vintage I guess but it's pretty old.


 
  They sound good on my Denon AVR-5800.....


----------



## Shikarikato

I saw a picture of a "Q" cable and the beauty of it made me really consider grabbing one. I mean I want great audio quality but I don't want a horrendous looking cable. Though I was wondering, does having an adapter go from 4-Pin XLR to Dual 3-Pin XLR give any extra audio quality? I was planning to purchase a Lyr and then later upgrade and I don't want to go through the hassle of buying another $300 cable if I want to go from 1/4Inch to XLR. Does it seem better just to grab the 4 Pin XLR cable and a 4 Pin to 1/4 Inch adapter and then whenever I upgrade amps to grab a 4 Pin XLR to Dual 3 Pin XLR adapter?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> Repeating myself here but vintage receivers are the way to get the best out of the HD800!


 
  +1


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





shikarikato said:


> Does it seem better just to grab the 4 Pin XLR cable and a 4 Pin to 1/4 Inch adapter and then whenever I upgrade amps to grab a 4 Pin XLR to Dual 3 Pin XLR adapter?


 
   
  Yes but if you bought an amp in 2013 that didn't have a 4pin connector you went wrong somewhere   1/4" and 4pin XLR are the standard now a days.


----------



## Dexon

A bit of topic but I'm loosing my patience. Does anyone knows any protective case suitable for HD800 that can be carried on one shoulder? I see some here and here but they are just plain cases without any kind of stripe for carrying. Don't want to have it inside rucksack or some plastic bag etc..


----------



## MelvinV

solude said:


> Yes but if you bought an amp in 2013 that didn't have a 4pin connector you went wrong somewhere   1/4" and 4pin XLR are the standard now a days.



 
 Nah, the no-nonsense amplifiers still don't have a XLR output for obvious reasons.


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





melvinv said:


> Nah, the no-nonsense amplifiers still don't have a XLR output for obvious reasons.


 
  The obvious reason that said amplifiers aren't balanced? - way to take thing out of context.
   
  Now if a no-nonsense balanced amp don't have XLR output, that's nonsense


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





khaine1711 said:


> The obvious reason that said amplifiers aren't balanced? - way to take thing out of context.
> 
> *Now if a no-nonsense balanced amp don't have XLR output,* that's nonsense


 
   





  I would hate to see that..


----------



## MelvinV

khaine1711 said:


> The obvious reason that said amplifiers aren't balanced? - way to take thing out of context.
> 
> Now if a no-nonsense balanced amp don't have XLR output, that's nonsense



 
 No-nonsense balanced amplifiers don't exist in the first place, so it's not a problem.


----------



## BournePerfect

Can't say I was personally impressed with either of my vintage amps with the HD800-neither the Pioneer 8100 or the Kenwood KA-3500 impressed me in any area over my m-Stage or my ZDSE, same source too. Add the Auditor and DP-1 headout as well now that I think about it.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## jazzerdave

dexon said:


> A bit of topic but I'm loosing my patience. Does anyone knows any protective case suitable for HD800 that can be carried on one shoulder? I see some here and here but they are just plain cases without any kind of stripe for carrying. Don't want to have it inside rucksack or some plastic bag etc..




I don't know of anything offhand, but it looks possible to sew a strap onto those. Also, if you're willing to explore it, the foam factory does custom work.


----------



## palmfish

bourneperfect said:


> Can't say I was personally impressed with either of my vintage amps with the HD800-neither the Pioneer 8100 or the Kenwood KA-3500 impressed me in any area over my m-Stage or my ZDSE, same source too. Add the Auditor and DP-1 headout as well now that I think about it.
> 
> -Daniel




Actually, my love for and frequent use of my HD800's is the primary reason why I replaced my vintage Carver with the Pioneer. My Carver is too nice to get rid of though, so it's at the office driving a couple of bookshelf speakers -never louder than background levels . Its such a waste for an amp with so much power and dynamic headroom, but c'est la vie.


----------



## wink

Why can't you use the Carver to drive the HD800's?


----------



## esn89

Quote: 





dexon said:


> A bit of topic but I'm loosing my patience. Does anyone knows any protective case suitable for HD800 that can be carried on one shoulder? I see some here and here but they are just plain cases without any kind of stripe for carrying. Don't want to have it inside rucksack or some plastic bag etc..


 
   

 nanuk:
  http://www.nanukcase.com/content.asp?node=2
   
  +
   
  nanuk strap:  http://www.nanukcase.com/content.asp?node=168


----------



## palmfish

wink said:


> Why can't you use the Carver to drive the HD800's?




The Carver, as I mentioned yesterday, has a very high output impedance that I concluded makes the HD800 ( and every other Sennheiser Ive owned) sound muddy and bloated to me. It wasnt a problem with the Denon or HiFiMan headphones Ive owned, just the Sennheisers.


----------



## wink

Gotcha. That would do it...


----------



## ozz007

Has any one here listen the HD800, with the bitfrost über/USB with the Lyr? And the Woo WA7 fireflies? 

Which set would sound better with the HD800?

Which one would be the best buy?


----------



## LugBug1

My vintage SX550 sounds much bigger, clearer and controlled than both my Audio gd and m-stage (I use these for my bedside rig). When Iistening to either of these amps after listening to the receiver, I'm always left wanting. It then takes time to adjust as they sound weaker and a little too polite in comparison. The only thing that is better on the dedicated hp amps is the black background. If you are brave enough to crank the receiver up then you will start to get some hiss. But you would only notice this with delicate music played at a very high volume. 
  Ofcourse there are problems with buying old amplifiers from the 70's (golden age), they can die on you at any moment haha, and it pays to try and find one that has been serviced recently and ideally recapped


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





ozz007 said:


> Has any one here listen the HD800, with the bitfrost über/USB with the Lyr? And the Woo WA7 fireflies?
> 
> Which set would sound better with the HD800?
> 
> Which one would be the best buy?


 
   
  I have HD800 into uber bifrost/lyr (toslink, not usb though), and WITH THE RIGHT TUBES, sounds pretty good, though not quite as good as through my Burson Conductor.   By good, I mean solid bass extension and detail, and smooth, extended highs.  They both do a great job with the soundstage.   Sorry, no Woo experience here.


----------



## palmfish

I just started reading about the Darkforce/La Figaro 336. Anyone have experience or comments on these? They seem like a bargain at $300.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





dexon said:


> A bit of topic but I'm loosing my patience. Does anyone knows any protective case suitable for HD800 that can be carried on one shoulder? I see some here and here but they are just plain cases without any kind of stripe for carrying. Don't want to have it inside rucksack or some plastic bag etc..


 
  I have the Hippo case from Jaben and it fits the HD800 very nicely.  It has a hand strap on it that _could_ be used to rig up a shoulder strap.  Or, as has been said, you could have someone sew a strap onto it.
   


Spoiler: Pics



 
  Here are some pictures.


----------



## ozz007

Any one else with more input?


----------



## ozz007

bobjs said:


> I have HD800 into uber bifrost/lyr (toslink, not usb though), and WITH THE RIGHT TUBES, sounds pretty good, though not quite as good as through my Burson Conductor.   By good, I mean solid bass extension and detail, and smooth, extended highs.  They both do a great job with the soundstage.   Sorry, no Woo experience here.




Any one else with more imput, I would love to hear opinions on both of this sit-ups or an alternative option around the same price point.


----------



## PinkLed

Does anyone know from experience if a USB with the Lyr Bifrost will sound warmer than with toslink?
   
  Just bought another pair of Amperex, this time PQ OG A frames for 39$, Hope these warm up the 800s


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> Does anyone know from experience if a USB with the Lyr Bifrost will sound warmer than with toslink?
> 
> Just bought another pair of Amperex, this time PQ OG A frames for 39$, Hope these warm up the 800s


 
   
  I assume you've already done the Anaxilus mod?


----------



## MelvinV

pinkled said:


> Does anyone know from experience if a USB with the Lyr Bifrost will sound warmer than with toslink?
> 
> Just bought another pair of Amperex, this time PQ OG A frames for 39$, Hope these warm up the 800s



 
 Yes, Toslink's bits are transmitted using a red-ish light, which is a warm colour. The warm colour transfers into the bits and results in a warmer, smoother sound.


----------



## PinkLed

> pinkled said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone know from experience if a USB with the Lyr Bifrost will sound warmer than with toslink?
> ...


 
  Will give it a try, forgot about this one. Thanks!


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





melvinv said:


> Yes, Toslink's bits are transmitted using a red-ish light, which is a warm colour. The warm colour transfers into the bits and results in a warmer, smoother sound.


----------



## PinkLed

> Quote:
> 
> 
> melvinv said:
> ...


 
  Sorry for those who like it cold, I hear the Andromeda galaxy is nice this time of centennial.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> Sorry for those who like it cold, I hear the Andromeda galaxy is nice this time of centennial.


 
   
  A common misconception due to red shift...lol. The Andromeda galaxy was actually nice 105.3 billion years ago, give or take 10 million years. Its cold as a witches tit now.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> A common misconception due to red shift...lol. The Andromeda galaxy was actually nice 105.3 billion years ago, give or take 10 million years. Its cold as a witches tit now.


 
  And in a few billion years it will merge with us in the Milky Way.


----------



## jackskelly

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> Sorry for those who like it cold, I hear the Andromeda galaxy is nice this time of centennial.


 
  For those that like it hot, there are quite a few hot-spots, so to speak, in that galaxy as well.


----------



## MickeyVee

I hear no difference between USB and Toslink.. 2012 MacMini > Bifrost Uber.
  I found the Amerpex Orange Globes the warmest and smoothest.
  No harshness at all with my 21xxx so no Amalex mod for me.
  Hope this helps 
   
  Quote: 





pinkled said:


> Does anyone know from experience if a USB with the Lyr Bifrost will sound warmer than with toslink?
> 
> Just bought another pair of Amperex, this time PQ OG A frames for 39$, Hope these warm up the 800s


----------



## Dexon

Quote: 





jazzerdave said:


> I don't know of anything offhand, but it looks possible to sew a strap onto those. Also, if you're willing to explore it, the foam factory does custom work.


 
   
  Quote: 





esn89 said:


> nanuk:
> http://www.nanukcase.com/content.asp?node=2
> 
> +
> ...


 
   
  Thanks guys! Nanuk seems fine. Lol, even polar bear can't get to your HD800 while they're in it. Now only to determine the right size.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> I have the Hippo case from Jaben and it fits the HD800 very nicely.  It has a hand strap on it that _could_ be used to rig up a shoulder strap.  Or, as has been said, you could have someone sew a strap onto it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks bearFNF, I'll check that one too.


----------



## MIKELAP

Looking for a shorter cable for the Senns around 4 feet long  dont know if cables make a difference or not but what would be a gould brand for the Senns and the Burson Conductor. Thanks


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> Looking for a shorter cable for the Senns around 4 feet long  dont know if cables make a difference or not but what would be a gould brand for the Senns and the Burson Conductor. Thanks


 

 The HD 800 uses fancy "custom" connectors which you won't find on cheap(-ish) cables, just go for the cheapest cable you can find as long as it contains OFC or some other stuff, basically everything except for $0,50 cables (which won't have the "custom" connector away). There is no such thing as a good brand because copper is copper, if Obama touches copper it doesn't become magic copper with ultra high conductivity.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> And in a few billion years it will merge with us in the Milky Way.


 
  Eh did you ever get around to reading Fermat's last theorem? ----
   
   


> But it is impossible to divide a cube into two cubes, or a fourth power into fourth powers, or generally any power beyond the square into like powers; of this I have found a remarkable demonstration. This margin is too narrow to contain it.
> Pierre de Fermat


----------



## PinkLed

macedonianhero said:


> And in a few billion years it will merge with us in the Milky Way.


 
  Or we could invent time travel before then and most people will just end up going back to the 60s forever. If a tree falls in a forest...

  Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I assume you've already done the Anaxilus mod?


 
  Anaxilus mod is in. Highly recommend everyone doing this if the HD800s are too bright for you. The mod makes the headphones slightly, I woudnt necessarily say warmer. Like if you nuke a sandwich that had been in the fridge for 7 seconds or something. Room temperature. With Anaxilus these are about as neutral as it gets. You dont get this level of clarity with the LCD2s. I dont think you can. With bass like that who can hear a thing ?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



This is not an endgame fix by far, but does the job intended. Still going to just keep tube rolling until Statement arrives. Then the real testing begins.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> Or we could invent time travel before then and most people will just end up going back to the 60s forever. If a tree falls in a forest...
> 
> Anaxilus mod is in. Highly recommend everyone doing this if the HD800s are too bright for you. The mod makes the headphones slightly, I woudnt necessarily say warmer. Like if you nuke a sandwich that had been in the fridge for 7 seconds or something. Room temperature. With Anaxilus these are about as neutral as it gets. You dont get this level of clarity with the LCD2s. I dont think you can. With bass like that who can hear a thing ?
> 
> ...


 
   
  I am also using Anax (similar to Tyll's version) with my HD800s. I could be happy with no mods at all, but since I got them in, I never looked back. The version I am using is subtle enough not to affect what I love about the HD800s and effective enough to take some edge off, give a hint of warmth and a little more bass impact.


----------



## preproman

Speaking of Mods.  Has anyone done the Stefan Audio Ultra-Mod?


----------



## Cante Ista

are you talking about the Phonitor mod? I know fejnomit has one. I've PM'ed with him about his impressions.


----------



## preproman

Phonitor the amp?  No I don't think so.  I'm talking about the Mod that James at Stefan Audio does on the HD800s.  He calls it the Ultra Mod.


----------



## rawrster

I've never heard of that mod. Got a link to it?


----------



## preproman

I don't have a link to the MOD.  However, you can contact him here:  http://www.stefanaudioart.com/  He can forward all the info to you.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> I've never heard of that mod. Got a link to it?


 
  heres the link and theres also a pdf with a template               http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod


----------



## Cante Ista

Thanks Perp!
  I did a search after I saw your post and all I hit on the SA site was mention of the Ultra Mod for the Phonitor. Thanks for clarifying. I was getting confused about the thread I was reading.


----------



## jackskelly

Does anyone know of a good carrying case that would work well with the HD800's? I say that because the box they come in, although it's nice, is just too big and impractical to carry around (it reminds me of a jewelry box). When I visited a friend in New York City a few months ago I wanted him to try them out, so I literally held the HD800's in my hand the entire time while in the airport and on the plane so that possible damage was kept to a minimum. I did get some strange looks, as one might imagine.


----------



## MelvinV

Quote: 





jackskelly said:


> Does anyone know of a good carrying case that would work well with the HD800's? I say that because the box they come in, although it's nice, is just too big and impractical to carry around (it reminds me of a jewelry box). When I visited a friend in New York City a few months ago I wanted him to try them out, so I literally held the HD800's in my hand the entire time while in the airport and on the plane so that possible damage was kept to a minimum. I did get some strange looks, as one might imagine.


 

 Someone asked this like 1 or 2 pages ago, some sort of hippo case or whatever.


----------



## PinkLed

> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Pelican makes some really nice cases. Top notch stuff. Use em to store all my guns. Check amazon.


----------



## M-13

I use mine to store my RPG launchers and IED devices. Works pretty well I think.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





jackskelly said:


> Does anyone know of a good carrying case that would work well with the HD800's? I say that because the box they come in, although it's nice, is just too big and impractical to carry around (it reminds me of a jewelry box). When I visited a friend in New York City a few months ago I wanted him to try them out, so I literally held the HD800's in my hand the entire time while in the airport and on the plane so that possible damage was kept to a minimum. I did get some strange looks, as one might imagine.


 
  http://www.nanukcase.com/                        http://www.nanukcase.com/gestion/accessories/shoulder_strap.jpg


----------



## PinkLed

> I use mine to store my RPG launchers and IED devices. Works pretty well I think.


 
  Considering the HD800s cost just as much as an RPG in some countries and the box is way smaller for headphones your getting a steal. Done be ashamed to spend 100$ on a really nice multi purpose travel case. Use protection fellas


----------



## faverodefavero

So, I have a DA-160 DAC from Burson which I use with my Soloist amplifier (Burson), and with a Schiit Lyr now and then as well. My main headphones are the Sennhseiser *HD800*.

I am happy with the setup as it is, I'm really inclined to change my DAC for something newer, something that can retrieve more micro-detail and is more spatial than the DA-160. My main headphone is the *HD-800* and I usually use it with the Soloist. Usually, I listen to Jazz (Dave Brubeck, Charlie Parker, Keith Jarret...), and classic rock'n'roll (think Velvet Underground, Mutantes, Beatles, etc.). 

NOW: The IMPORTANT bit is... *I'd like your suggestions on a new DAC for me that goes well with my setup and music style, BUT its maximum cost has to be BELLOW USD$1'000.00, please. *

Also, since I live in Brazil, I'd love if you put links where I can buy the suggest DAC (the DAC producer or seller must ship worldwide, obviously)



TL/DR: Please, I need a good DAC recommendation for my HD800 (to be used with Burson Soloist, as hp-amp). I'd like something cheaper than USD$1'000.00, please



*Thank you, so very much!!*


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





faverodefavero said:


> So, I have a DA-160 DAC from Burson which I use with my Soloist amplifier (Burson), and with a Schiit Lyr now and then as well. My main headphones are the Sennhseiser *HD800*.
> 
> I am happy with the setup as it is, I'm really inclined to change my DAC for something newer, something that can retrieve more micro-detail and is more spatial than the DA-160. My main headphone is the *HD-800* and I usually use it with the Soloist. Usually, I listen to Jazz (Dave Brubeck, Charlie Parker, Keith Jarret...), and classic rock'n'roll (think Velvet Underground, Mutantes, Beatles, etc.).
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hahaha, poor old DA-160. I don't think he wants to be retired!! 

 Why don't you try a fully upgraded MSB TECHNOLOGY, Diamond DAC IV? (Hahaha, I'm only kidding)

 The NAD M51 is a great ~$1000 DAC that I've personally heard with the HD 800. Jazz sounds really good and lifelike. Very natural and neutral. On the plus side, if you ever retire it in the future you can always use for your home theatre/hi-fi.

 There's a distributor listed here for Brazil, but I'm sure there are others. They aren't hard to find.


----------



## dleblanc343

But the NAD is like 1500$... And in Brazil I'd roughly estimate 2000$. It is a fantastic piece of equipment though.


----------



## Maxvla

Matrix X-Sabre if you can stretch to $1099.


----------



## faverodefavero

Wow, thanks guys. Keep your suggestions coming, indeed, please!


----------



## paradoxper

Maybe look into the Revamped Concero HD as well.


----------



## MR22

Paypal Refund finally came back and ordered the WA7 to go with the HD800's  can't wait!
   
  will be interesting to see how the WA7 goes compared to my ****ty laptop built in audio setup


----------



## lightningfarron

finally able to pull the trigger on the hd800 and im a very happy man now,
  currently pairing it with fostex hp-a8. im very happy with my first desktop set up


----------



## Solude

DAC under $1k?  Schiit BiFrost w/ Uber or Gungnir, Metrum Octave, W4S DAC-1.  Sure I am missing some.


----------



## preproman

Might have a good chance to find a W4S DAC-2 for around / under $1K now the the new W4S DAC2se DSD is out.  Only used though.  Not sure if folks on the GON will ship world wide.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





solude said:


> DAC under $1k?  Schiit BiFrost w/ Uber or Gungnir, Metrum Octave, W4S DAC-1.  Sure I am missing some.


 
   
  Wasn't a huge fan of the Gungnir performing DAC duties for the HD800. Too shouty and lacking finesse. May be fine if you have a syrupy amp taking the edge off.


----------



## Solude

You have the Mjolnir... which is super aggressive and top tilted.  That amp takes a seriously smooth, laid back and dark source.  It likely wasn't the Gungnir since it is one of the DACs known to tame the Mjolnir some compared to other sources.  Personally found the Mjolnir too aggressive even with the Metrum Octave and LCD-3.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





solude said:


> You have the Mjolnir... which is super aggressive and top tilted.  That amp takes a seriously smooth, laid back and dark source.  *It likely wasn't the Gungnir since it is one of the DACs known to tame the Mjolnir some compared to other sources*.  Personally found the Mjolnir too aggressive even with the Metrum Octave and LCD-3.


 
   
  The Gungnir was most certainly the culprit. Its flaws were also evident through speakers, with the MJ out of the equation. The notion that the Gungnir tames the MJ is counter to what I heard, and this is the first I've read of it.


----------



## zigy626

Audiolab M-Dac is a really good Dac. I am currently using it with my HD800


----------



## PinkLed

Has anyone used the Bifrost with uber and a Mjolnir? How does this stack up to the Gungnir?


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> The notion that the Gungnir tames the MJ is counter to what I heard, and this is the first I've read of it.


 
   
  Can only tell you what was spouted as gospel over and over in the Mjolnir thread.  I never took it that far since the Mjolnir just wasn't for me.  The Statement should fix it though with the ability to roll the front end tube to suit.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> Can only tell you what was spouted as gospel over and over in the Mjolnir thread.  I never took it that far since the Mjolnir just wasn't for me.  The Statement should fix it though with the ability to roll the front end tube to suit.


 
   
  So Solude, your go for the Hybrid over the SS Statement?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





solude said:


> You have the Mjolnir... which is super aggressive and top tilted.  That amp takes a seriously smooth, laid back and dark source.  It likely wasn't the Gungnir since it is one of the DACs known to tame the Mjolnir some compared to other sources.  Personally found the Mjolnir too aggressive even with the Metrum Octave and LCD-3.


 
  Mjolnir settles down. It's still more involving than most amps. But Gungnir is the edgy culprit. Gungnir would do wonders for the Soloist though.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





preproman said:


> So Solude, your go for the Hybrid over the SS Statement?


 
   
  Oh ya.  Assuming the Statement is the Mjolnir with more output devices it'll need the tube love to tonally shift it down and round it out.


----------



## LifeAspect

Violectric V800 is a great match~


----------



## preproman

The issue I have with the V800 is that it's adaptive or lets say older technology.  I'm sure it sounds very good.  However, if all things are equal in implementation would you rather go Adaptive or Asynchronous.
   
  I'm sure someone will say.....  "I've heard some adaptive sound better than some Async."  I'm sure you have.  That's why I said if all things are equal in implementation.


----------



## Solude

Adaptive/Async is really just new words for slave/master clock.  Problem is in SPDIF data is a continuous stream on a clock and jitter matters.  In USB the data is packet bursts that the device then streams out spdif or i2s continuously.  Ie the USB clock control for usb doesn't matter a whole lot.  It's the converter timing that matters.


----------



## jeffreyfranz

_You made this up, right?_
*2x 25cm Van Damme Tour Grade Classic XKE Starquad microphone cable with nickel/silver-Neutrik XLR plugs*
    
  Quote:


melvinv said:


> No-nonsense balanced amplifiers don't exist in the first place, so it's not a problem.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> Adaptive/Async is really just new words for slave/master clock.  Problem is in SPDIF data is a continuous stream on a clock and jitter matters.  In USB the data is packet bursts that the device then streams out spdif or i2s continuously. * Ie the USB clock control for usb doesn't matter a whole lot. * It's the converter timing that matters.


 
   
In Adaptive mod -  The computer can't maintain perfect timing of the data sent by it's USB port.
   
In Async mod - The clock drives the computer directly, so it does not rely on the computers clock.
   
Async is technically more advanced. So why use adaptive if you don't have to?


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Mjolnir settles down. It's still more involving than most amps. But Gungnir is the edgy culprit. Gungnir would do wonders for the Soloist though.


 
  Interesting.  I'm currently using Soloist + HD800 myself and I was previously using a Resonessence Concero with good results but had to sell it because I needed some extra money.  Using a Modi for the time being.  I remember listening to my HD800 and a Mjolnir/Gungnir combo with Wavelength USB converter at a meet not too long ago and didn't particular like the combo with the HD800. It wasn't terrible by any means but I much preferred my (at the time) Concero>PS Audio Nuwave>Soloist SL combo.  The Soloist SL was a loaner of someone elses and what made me decide to buy the full size Soloist, though I had to sell the Nuwave to afford it.  The Nuwave is said by some to be a forward and bright DAC but the Concero as a converter did help with that some.  I didn't like the M/J combo for essentially the same reasons that Olor1n stated.
   
  I don't find the Soloist to be a "Syrupy" amp by any means though.  But it's certainly not thin sounding at all either.  It certainly has no problem showcasing the slight brightness of the Modi.  Surprising though, with Fidelizer enabled, I find the Modi comes very close to the performance of the Concero but with a slightly different presentation.  Without Fidelizer though, it certainly sounds much more like a $100 DAC in this rather transparent setup.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the difference is greater with the Modi since the Concero also uses it's FPGA for jitter reduction, in addition to it's custom filters.  The Modi has no such fanciness.  It does make me very curious though, of what the USB Bifrost Uber, and Gungnir would be capable of with Fidelizer enabled, and matched with my current setup.
   
  And I apologize ahead of time to anyone that follows my posts and notices that I seem to be pushing the whole Fidelizer thing a lot.  I've just been really excited with the noticeable change in my PC setup using it and it's free as well.  Of course each PC is different and YMMV.  Some have tried it and stated they couldn't tell any difference.  But I figured it's free so it couldn't hurt to try and honestly wasn't expecting an difference at all.  Another similar option is JPlay which is similar in concept but gets there by different means and is not free to use for full version.


----------



## M-13

+1 for Fidelizer.
   
  It works. Simple as that. The effect is indeed much bigger on the Modi. I have both the Modi and the Concero. I appreciate you spreading the word about Fidelizer. It seriously changed my mind about how inadequate my laptop is in stock form. Going off memory. Fidelizer + Modi sounds better than my Bifrost ever did. (non-Uber and not using Fidelizer at the time, when I owned it). I'm wondering how the Uber would sound with the Fidelizer as well, but perhaps the dramatic effect won't happen, kind of like the Concero.
   
  It's a free program, so people can try it without much risk. I'm using Foobar + Wasapi plug-in + Fidelizer, and I have a huge smile on my face right now.


----------



## faverodefavero

So, anyone knows please, where can I buy some or any of these DACs you're suggesting? I mean, a link that ships to Brazil with no problem? Thanks so much for all the suggestions again, you've been most responsive and helpful guys!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> +1 for Fidelizer.
> 
> It works. Simple as that. The effect is indeed much bigger on the Modi. I have both the Modi and the Concero. I appreciate you spreading the word about Fidelizer. It seriously changed my mind about how inadequate my laptop is in stock form. Going off memory. Fidelizer + Modi sounds better than my Bifrost ever did. (non-Uber and not using Fidelizer at the time, when I owned it). I'm wondering how the Uber would sound with the Fidelizer as well, but perhaps the dramatic effect won't happen, kind of like the Concero.
> 
> It's a free program, so people can try it without much risk. I'm using Foobar + Wasapi plug-in + Fidelizer, and I have a huge smile on my face right now.


 
  Nice one guys, giving it a go now


----------



## YoengJyh

How come no people talk about HD800 pairing with EarMax Pro Silver Edition OTL tube amp... Does anyone try them before?


----------



## YoengJyh

Quote: 





faverodefavero said:


> So, I have a DA-160 DAC from Burson which I use with my Soloist amplifier (Burson), and with a Schiit Lyr now and then as well. My main headphones are the Sennhseiser *HD800*.
> 
> I am happy with the setup as it is, I'm really inclined to change my DAC for something newer, something that can retrieve more micro-detail and is more spatial than the DA-160. My main headphone is the *HD-800* and I usually use it with the Soloist. Usually, I listen to Jazz (Dave Brubeck, Charlie Parker, Keith Jarret...), and classic rock'n'roll (think Velvet Underground, Mutantes, Beatles, etc.).
> 
> ...


 
   
  Go for Yulong D18... negative is no USB port only.


----------



## Solude

So I still dig the HD800 but this morning decided to play around some with JRiver's PEQ and so far I can say that the HD800 seems to respond well to it.  Usually when I use an EQ the can kind of falls apart, not so this time out.  Nothing massive just took out the 6KHz peak and bumped the bottom to be flat to 20Hz from 100Hz.  Probably drop the boost since the %THD rises in the bass already as is.
   
  Also mimicked the SR-009 response and really don't dig the 1KHz boost.  Things pop more but long term it's a little fatiguing, at least on the HD800.


----------



## YoengJyh

OMG... 
   
  Today i just notice that my NFB10SE is actually acting as a pre-amp + dac when i turn them on... which i am still able to control the volume up and down after i connected to tube amp. If i on the NFB10SE without activate the volume button (which is just showing blinking blue screen), the NFB10SE is working as dac only. There is an effect on HD800 sound qulity where i feel that the sound is slightly brighter, thin, less texture and bass lighter if the NFB10SE acting as dac compare to thicker, warmer, more texture, and bass after i turn on the volume button on NFB10SE.
   
  So cool...


----------



## ozz007

lol I just downloaded it, so far I like it.  Fidelizer


----------



## ozz007

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Nice one guys, giving it a go now


 
   
  lol I just downloaded it, so far I like it.


----------



## johangrb

+1 for Fidelizer. For the next level, try this: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/iso-usb-key-installer-preconfigured-and-stripped-down-audiophile-version-windows-8-pro-including-jriver-and-foobar-14390/
   
  It is a stripped down version of Windows 8 (you'll need a license key - so not a pirate copy). Windows 8 barebones + Fidelizer + JPlay in hibernate mode.
   
  Worth a try - I certainly like it. (I bought a Lenovo Q190 on sale, which I dedicate for audio use now)


----------



## lightningfarron

+2 for fidelizer
   
  i cant believe how detailed the hd800 is now


----------



## preproman

Info needed..
   
  Can someone tell me what *EXACTLY* "Fidelizer" does to improve the sound?  I can disable lots of Windows services myself.  So what does this do that's any different.  Also how does it improve on already bit-perfect data?


----------



## LugBug1

Good question. I think there are processes that go on even though you have closed all other active programs apart from media player. Now whether this is healthy for your computer to stop these I'm not sure. 
   
  I suppose that the media player (like any program) will run smoother if it has all RAM and attention focused on it. But as you say how can this improve on already bit perfect data? The Media player still plays a role in giving the data out. And it may be the case that the more power it has - the faster smoother this data is channelled. It may well be bit perfect to begin with but if your computer is sweating with dealing with too much it may well ***k it up before it leaves haha! 
   
  Thats me being devils ad 
   
  Now. I've tried it and it seems to work, could swear that I'm getting more detail... :/ But it keeps crashing Foobar (on Windows 7) when I use the 'audiophile' option. Then I have to switch my pc off and back on. The Audiophile option works fine on my other pc with Vista.
   
  Dunno.... But I'd be surprised if any change would be noticeable without the HD800's


----------



## preproman

Thanks Lug..
   
  I don't want to derail this thread as I have a few questions.  Is there a Fidelizer thread?


----------



## LugBug1

Can't find one bud. 
   
  This is worth reading though 
   
   http://www.psaudio.com/vanilla/discussion/4453/optimizing-windows-pc-for-best-sound-quality-fidelizer/p1


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Info needed..
> 
> Can someone tell me what *EXACTLY* "Fidelizer" does to improve the sound?  I can disable lots of Windows services myself.  So what does this do that's any different.  Also how does it improve on already bit-perfect data?


 
  I also don't see what this offers. Unless it's the automatic convenience off having system resources free'd up, etc.
  Which you can do on your own.


----------



## Solude

Not that you would ever need to in 2013 to feed an audio stream


----------



## palmfish

Sounds like vaporware to me. The bits are either there or not AFAIK. 

My FLAC files are indistinguishable from the original CD in direct comparison, so how can anything make my FLAC files sound "better?"


----------



## RIQUE

I have a Benchmark DAC I that I use to drive my HD800, I wonder if I can drive these headphones from the rear XLR outputs. According to my understanding these are not amplified right? or is this possible?


----------



## Solude

They are amped and you can.  Mixed results if memory serves.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





rique said:


> I have a Benchmark DAC I that I use to drive my HD800, I wonder if I can drive these headphones from the rear XLR outputs. According to my understanding these are not amplified right? or is this possible?


 
  I wouldn't advise it. Your dac will have a set output voltage/current and this maybe too high for your headphones. Amplifiers have resistors for headphones.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I wouldn't advise it. Your dac will have a set output voltage/current and this maybe too high for your headphones. Amplifiers have resistors for headphones.


 
   
  Not even sure where to begin.  Will simply say, no, just no.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Can't find one bud.
> 
> This is worth reading though
> 
> http://www.psaudio.com/vanilla/discussion/4453/optimizing-windows-pc-for-best-sound-quality-fidelizer/p1


 
  Its a locked thread but here it is.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/542004/fidelizer-2-0-introducing-new-ui-with-multi-core-optimizations


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





solude said:


> Not even sure where to begin.  Will simply say, no, just no.


 
  Fair enough


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Info needed..
> 
> Can someone tell me what *EXACTLY* "Fidelizer" does to improve the sound?  I can disable lots of Windows services myself.  So what does this do that's any different.  Also how does it improve on already bit-perfect data?


 
  I've been reading the description, and it just seem to disable unnecessary services for playing music. You must seriously not trust your pc for doing this.


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I've been reading the description, and it just seem to disable unnecessary services for playing music. You must seriously not trust your pc for doing this.


 
  Well, it's not just disabling system services, that's easy to do.  It goes more into depth into re-prioritizing system threading for audio priority.  This could be more dramatic for me also since I use a USB network card and it's likely stealing bandwidth from the USB bus and causing plenty of bit-errors before the "bit-perfect" bits ever leaving the computer.  I actually recently dug out my old 2008 Macbook pro and considering making it a dedicated music computer but it's stuck with OSX 10.5.8 and I'd have to call Apple to order a Snow Leopard DVD.  Here is some copied text from Fidelizer's website that explains a little better:
   
   
 What does Fidelizer do in optimizing threads, I/O and random stuff like priorities and resources scheduling? Are they just made up for placebo effects?
 -Since Windows Vista, Microsoft introduced Multimedia Class Scheduler for thread and I/O priority optimization for processor resource scheduling. Most dedicated audio/video applications will benefit from this and it also affect overall system/network performance too. Default configuration are quite terribly optimized and not enough people going to take this feature serious enough to findout how I can get better sound through this. Fidelizer will do it for you without affecting real configuration so everything will still work fine after system restart.

 I saw system thread priorities and clock resolution in another option. Aren’t they the same to ones in resource scheduler?
 -Although Microsoft made pretty good resource management  tool like that. However, it couldn’t controll the whole system down to specific process and thread. This program will do additional works to ensure best sound reproduction with lowest possible latency in software and hardware I/O which can loosen up the continuity of bit-stream though it’s performing bit-perfect. It’ll enforce audio thread to highest level possible and reduce non-important processes and threads to lowest possible level for more throughput to audio thread. It also adjusts system clock resolution (NT Timer) down to lowest possible level for most accurate timing reference to improve stability of audio playback at lower latency.

 I use DPC Latency Checker but Fidelizer doesn’t improve system latency at all. Isn’t it scam?
 -Graph in system latency shows latency of hardware I/O meaning you’re checking hardware latency. Fidelizer will decrease software latency in operating system so DPC Latency Checker isn’t capable of checking software latency. You need to test it with other methods. If you want to decrease hardware latency in DPC Latency Checker, try disabling drivers like networking for example.

 If DPC Latency Checker is out of the game, how can I measure the difference in scientific way then?
 -You’d need high quality hardware and intensive measurement methods to make clear cut. Let’s just believe in Microsoft that they didn’t make stuff like Multimedia Class Scheduler just to fool pro audio market. If you’re really desperate to do so, just try it with your ears, if you’re unsatisfied or can’t hear the difference, just delete it since it won’t cause any changes to your system anyway.

 *Features*
 -Stop most system services leaving only audio-related ones
 -Optimize audio thread, I/O priorities, clock rate in resource scheduler
 -Optimize process thread priorities and system clock resolution
 -Configure Fidelizer to run automatically on system startup

  That's as much as I'll go into that so I'm not further derailing thread.  If anyone wants I can start a new thread on the topic.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





jwahl said:


> Well, it's not just disabling system services, that's easy to do.  It goes more into depth into re-prioritizing system threading for audio priority.  This could be more dramatic for me also since I use a USB network card and it's likely stealing bandwidth from the USB bus and causing plenty of bit-errors before the "bit-perfect" bits ever leaving the computer.


 
  As much dubious.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Sounds like *vaporware* to me. The bits are either there or not AFAIK.
> 
> My FLAC files are indistinguishable from the original CD in direct comparison, so how can anything make my FLAC files sound "better?"


 
   
  You're actually misusing the term vaporware.  Vaporware refers to a product that's rumored/expected for a long time but never delivered.  A functional and available product can't really be vaporware.  It can be hogwash, but a worthless product doesn't make it vaporware.


----------



## palmfish

Yes, you're right! Thanks for the correction.


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Yes, you're right! Thanks for the correction.


 
   
  No problem.  I'm here to clarify (or help (or whatever)).


----------



## RIQUE

I have been listening to music through my IEMs today and noticed that vocals are located dead center between my ears, however with
  my HD800 I notice vocals shifted to the right channel. I cant´s seem to get the left driver to shoot directly to my left ear and am constantly
  fiddling with the position. Anybody else have this issue that can offer advice.
   
  Thanks, Riq


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





rique said:


> I have been listening to music through my IEMs today and noticed that vocals are located dead center between my ears, however with
> my HD800 I notice vocals shifted to the right channel. I cant´s seem to get the left driver to shoot directly to my left ear and am constantly
> fiddling with the position. Anybody else have this issue that can offer advice.
> 
> Thanks, Riq


 

 Could it be possible that imaging is so good on the HD 800 that the vocals are actually supposed to be right from centre? IEMs aren't exactly the best with soundstage/imaging....


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





rique said:


> I have been listening to music through my IEMs today and noticed that vocals are located dead center between my ears, however with
> my HD800 I notice vocals shifted to the right channel.


 
   
  Try on a solid state amp if not already doing so,try another song or verify with a dB metre but that is driver mismatch.  New pair?


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





rique said:


> I have been listening to music through my IEMs today and noticed that vocals are located dead center between my ears, however with
> my HD800 I notice vocals shifted to the right channel. I cant´s seem to get the left driver to shoot directly to my left ear and am constantly
> fiddling with the position. Anybody else have this issue that can offer advice.
> 
> Thanks, Riq


 
  Try different songs. It could be just that one song. I doubt that Sennheiser HD800 could have a driver mismatch as each headphone is tested individually before it leaves the factory. It might be also a problem with your amplifier as stated above. I have had problems with driver mismatch with Hifiman HE500 where you could really see that one driver was louder than the other.


----------



## palmfish

I would try it with speakers in a stereo setup.


----------



## ffivaz

Quote: 





rique said:


> I have been listening to music through my IEMs today and noticed that vocals are located dead center between my ears, however with
> my HD800 I notice vocals shifted to the right channel. I cant´s seem to get the left driver to shoot directly to my left ear and am constantly
> fiddling with the position. Anybody else have this issue that can offer advice.
> 
> Thanks, Riq


 
   
  I would use some right / left / center test tones. Check http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_stereo.php for instance.


----------



## Maxvla

scolaiw said:


> Could it be possible that imaging is so good on the HD 800 that the vocals are actually supposed to be right from centre? *IEMs aren't exactly the best with soundstage/imaging....*



Actually, in my experience they usually destroy full size headphones in imaging and soundstage realism. HD800 is one of few full sizers that nearly close the gap, but are still not quite as good.


----------



## RIQUE

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Actually, in my experience they usually destroy full size headphones in imaging and soundstage realism. HD800 is one of few full sizers that nearly close the gap, but are still not quite as good.


 
  I agree with Max, full size headphones don´t hold a candle to good IEM´s soundstaging


----------



## Deni5

What IEM's are you thinking of? imo many IEM's don't have "out of head" soundstage. HD-800 does this well to me. I also experience center stage shift to the right sometimes. I believe it is mostly because how the music is mixed. Sometimes bass is in the center and the vocals a little to the right and sometimes the opposite. Read somewhere that it's done that way so that bass doesn't interfere with vocals - makes sense.
   
  Some amps can have channel imbalance at lower volumes.


----------



## Solude

You're both high   I've never had an IEM with pinpoint imaging like the HD800 nevermind the shoulder check for what sounds like something not coming from the headphone.  IEMs because of the isolation have good left to right tracking but no depth or height.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





solude said:


> You're both high   I've never had an IEM with pinpoint imaging like the HD800 nevermind the shoulder check for what sounds like something not coming from the headphone.  IEMs because of the isolation have good left to right tracking but no depth or height.


 






lmao


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





solude said:


> You're both high   I've never had an IEM with pinpoint imaging like the HD800 nevermind the shoulder check for what sounds like something not coming from the headphone.  IEMs because of the isolation have good left to right tracking but no depth or height.


 
  No, just no. You're not high enough.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





solude said:


> You're both high   I've never had an IEM with pinpoint imaging like the HD800 nevermind the shoulder check for what sounds like something not coming from the headphone.  IEMs because of the isolation have good left to right tracking but no depth or height.


 

 +1, IEMs cannot rival full-sized headphones (HD800) in both sound stage and height especially.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> +1, IEMs cannot rival full-sized headphones (HD800) in both sound stage and height especially.


 
  +2, forget the HD800s, you can add most "good" full sized cans too.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

+3


----------



## longbowbbs

+4


----------



## palmfish

The AKG K3003 was pretty remarkable for its "out of head" quality when I tried it, but no other IEM I have ever heard comes close to a circumaural headphone for soundstage width and depth. Just as headphones dont come close to loudspeakers.


----------



## scolaiw

LOL!

 I'd just like to apologise for causing such a stir. Rather than taking this thread any more further off track, what I should say is that I believe the HD 800s have very good soundstaging and not many headphones be it iems or full sized can beat it in that respect.


----------



## Maxvla

Even the HD800 doesn't compare to the immersive holographic soundstage of the lowly $20 MEElectric M9. Quite honestly, neither do any speaker setups I've ever heard. It isn't an outside your head sound like you might be thinking of, rather it puts you in a field of sound that is surreal. Most IEMs I've tried have this level of effect, so it seems it is easier to do within the ear canal than on ear or over ear. The M9 of course sounds pretty terrible in all other respects, so I don't use it anymore. UERM is the best soundstage tool I have presently, but it lacks in detail so I compromise with the HD800.

Not sure how you guys can't hear it. IEMs are an order of magnitude better at spatial presentation than anything else I've heard (besides real life... but even that is close).


----------



## wink

K1000 is king of headphones for soundstage.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> You're both high   I've never had an IEM with pinpoint imaging like the HD800 nevermind the shoulder check for what sounds like something not coming from the headphone.  IEMs because of the isolation have good left to right tracking but no depth or height.


 
   
   
  Puff, Puff Give man...
   
  +5


----------



## LugBug1

I've owned Westone 2/3, UE3, and still have Senn IE8's (apparently the IEM kings of soundstage) and none of them give the sense of air and space that open over ear hp's give you. Especially the HD800's.
  IMO.
   
  Haven't been high for a long time... But peace folks


----------



## scolaiw

Back on topic.... 

 I've been listening to the HD 800 more and more now and I have drawn the conclusion that the HD 800 has the best bass in any headphone I've heard. Period. 

 Some people would suggest that the HD 800 are lacking in bass. Others might come to the conclusion that the amazing treble extension masks the bass and causes it to sound recessed (as I have personally concluded in the past). With prolonged listening, I have realised this is not the case. It is my belief that the HD 800 are the most neutral headphones and as such, really gives you what you give it. 

 What I mean is, *if you throw a well-defined bass heavy track at the HD 800, it will provide all the bass and slam that is required by the track. No more, no less, no distortion and no colouration*.

 The problem is that there is just too much bass everywhere. So many headphones nowadays automatically have a bass boosted frequency. Indeed amps often come with a mandatory bass boost. So when you hear bass from the HD 800 for the first time, you feel like crying out, NOT ENOUGH! But really, it is exactly enough and sounds exactly as it should. 

 Now, I should explain that I LOVE the bass presentation on the LCD 2/3. They provide my favourite sound in terms of bass. But that is with the caveat of the unspoken understanding that what I am being served is very coloured and with more meat.

*There is nothing wrong with concluding you prefer the bass of the LCD 2/3 (or any other headphone for that matter) more than the HD 800. What is wrong is to conclude that they have better bass than the HD 800. *

 Whilst what I say is focusing on the bass, the real factor that I appreciate is the neutrality. It's this neutrality that allows the HD 800 to excel. 

 Agree? Disagree?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> Back on topic....
> 
> I've been listening to the HD 800 more and more now and I have drawn the conclusion that the HD 800 has the best bass in any headphone I've heard. Period.
> 
> ...


 
  I agree...The key point for me is accurate and not extra. They are not tuned to blast the low end, but if the track has the bass the HD800's will deliver!


----------



## faverodefavero

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> *There is nothing wrong with concluding you prefer the bass of the LCD 2/3 (or any other headphone for that matter) more than the HD 800. What is wrong is to conclude that they have better bass than the HD 800. *


 
   
  Agreed. Well said man. That´s what´ve been saying for everyone I talk about the HD800 with...


----------



## PinkLed

Hd800 has that tight bass that makes you want to turn into Flee and play slap bass. LCD 2s bass creates a very warm dark atmosphere and is amazing for certain songs. There is no best hands down. Its all preference. But hd800s are defiantly more detailed.


----------



## faverodefavero

pinkled said:


> Hd800 has that tight bass that makes you want to turn into Flee and play slap bass. LCD 2s bass creates a very warm dark atmosphere and is amazing for certain songs. There is no best hands down. Its all preference. But hd800s are defiantly more detailed.




exactly


----------



## LifeAspect

I own both the lcd-2 and the hd800, but I do use the hd800 for 90% of my listening 
   
  the lcd-2 gives a nice kick to bass, but overall I still prefer the soundsignature of my hd800 by far. The hdvd800 just increased my preference


----------



## Cante Ista

here we go again! HD800 fans bashing Audeze! Just kidding I know you all have been very measured with your posts and I have to agree. I personally could not believe the price difference between LCD3 vs HD800. The way I hear them, HD 800 really comes in first regardless of price, but when you factor that in, it is no contest. Still, one day when I am done upgrading all the pireces in the chain I need to, I may get LCD3. Well if I dont get deralied by Staxes.


----------



## paradoxper

At this point the HD800 has a leg up, I think. Or maybe they're tied, or, uh, complimentary. Unsure.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> At this point the HD800 has a leg up, I think. Or maybe they're tied, *or, uh, complimentary. *Unsure.


 

 I could def see that! Hence my consideration to purchase the LCD3 in the future. Anyway, def not this summer. Gotta sink money into the house.


----------



## Solude

Considering I pair $1100 for my new pair and the LCD-3 set me back $1700 used... no contest for value.  Wildly different sound though.


----------



## Kojaku

The LCD-3 is just SO much more forgiving on recordings. I could listen to 128kbps stuff that I ripped off youtube when I was younger and still enjoy it on the LCD-3. The HD800 does not such thing. I can hear what I call "low riemann"-ing in the recording (meaning each second is not broken into enough constituent parts and the resulting sound is digital, blocky, and unmusical). I prefer the HD800, but only after the Anax mod took the edge off that 6.5k peak.
   
  Kojaku


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





kojaku said:


> The LCD-3 is just SO much more forgiving on recordings. I could listen to 128kbps stuff that I ripped off youtube when I was younger and still enjoy it on the LCD-3. The HD800 does not such thing. I can hear what I call "low riemann"-ing in the recording (meaning each second is not broken into enough constituent parts and the resulting sound is digital, blocky, and unmusical). I prefer the HD800, but only after the Anax mod took the edge off that 6.5k peak.
> 
> Kojaku


 

 HD800 + 128kbps = Brutal, harsh, bloated mess.
   
  The other day I downloaded a 10 year old song (one of old Usher's Rn'B songs) that was around 128kbps. It was so bad that I couldn't listen to it anymore so I downloaded the FLAC and it was about 10x better, so clean and so refined. When I played the low bit rate mp3 on my speakers, the weaknesses weren't so apparent and this is why I really like headphones.


----------



## Kojaku

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> HD800 + 128kbps = Brutal, harsh, bloated mess.
> 
> The other day I downloaded a 10 year old song (one of old Usher's Rn'B songs) that was around 128kbps. It was so bad that I couldn't listen to it anymore so I downloaded the FLAC and it was about 10x better, so clean and so refined. When I played the low bit rate mp3 on my speakers, the weaknesses weren't so apparent and this is why I really like headphones.


 
  Yeah, I've been slowly replacing my favorite hip-hop & r&b stuff with reference rips (buying the CDs from Amoeba). So far I've finished my JT, John Legend, Alicia Keyes, and Usher stuff. It's really so much better at 24/192.
   
  Kojaku


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> HD800 + 128kbps = Brutal, harsh, bloated mess.
> 
> The other day I downloaded a 10 year old song (one of old Usher's Rn'B songs) that was around 128kbps. It was so bad that I couldn't listen to it anymore so I downloaded the FLAC and it was about 10x better, so clean and so refined. When I played the low bit rate mp3 on my speakers, the weaknesses weren't so apparent and this is why I really like headphones.


 
  good point. i remember listening to a melody gardot album called 'who will comfort me' there are a few tracks on there where i can hear slight hiss in the right channel of the headphone and when i play it on the speakers the hiss is just not there.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





solude said:


> Considering I pair $1100 for my new pair and the LCD-3 set me back $1700 used... no contest for value.  Wildly different sound though.


 
  I find it quite amusing for some reason when someone says a $1100 headphone is a good value buy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I guess instead of the recent discussion of getting an LCD2/3 to go with the HD800 I got the SR007. The HD800 isn't going anywhere however. I spent too long trying to find the perfect setup for me. The Buffalo III DAC and Mjolnir amp makes the HD800 sound amazing. This is definitely one of the few headphones I've owned where the DAC change was very significant.


----------



## FlySweep

I'd definitely look at the Buffalo III if I could get it in a smaller enclosure.  Been eyeing it for a while as I've heard great things about it.


----------



## rawrster

Your V800 is the exception in size. The typical dac at that price range and up will be much bigger. What I have now is a pretty large enclosure but looking at the innards it won't get much smaller. It is fairly light however


----------



## commtrd

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I "would not" vote for that combo..


 
  Why not? Details? I was really thinking about eventually getting a pair of HD800 to try against the LCD3 when I get them. With that aforementioned Schiit stack...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





kojaku said:


> Yeah, I've been slowly replacing my favorite hip-hop & r&b stuff with reference rips (buying the CDs from Amoeba). So far I've finished my JT, John Legend, Alicia Keyes, and Usher stuff. It's really so much better at 24/192.
> 
> Kojaku


 
   
  how u get 24/192 usher? u mean 16/44 cd rips?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> how u get 24/192 usher? u mean 16/44 cd rips?


 
   
  +1
   
  I looked on that site.  Didn't see any 24/192 Usher....


----------



## ffivaz

dubstep girl said:


> how u get 24/192 usher? u mean 16/44 cd rips?




(Up)sampled cd rips ?


----------



## al10

Someone tried it with Teac HA 501 ?


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> HD800 + 128kbps = Brutal, harsh, bloated mess.


 
   
  Isn't that what you'd expect from a revealing pair of cans?


----------



## wink

Blame the rip, not the cans...


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





wink said:


> Blame the rip, not the cans...


 
  +1
   
  A good rip is a good rip.


----------



## hekeli

Yeah that's just stupid snobbery. Modern AAC and MP3 are already near transparent at 128kbit. I don't get what HD800 has to do with it. I can hear the artifacts even with my $15 cans. It's not like better ones magically blast the "defects" to you at +10dB level (edit: well... they might if the cheap cans are REALLY rolled off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





hekeli said:


> Yeah that's just stupid snobbery. Modern AAC and MP3 are already near transparent at 128kbit. I don't get what HD800 has to do with it. I can hear the artifacts even with my $15 cans, better ones don't magically blast them out of proportion.


 
  i agree that you can hear differences with cheaper gear to an extent but better cans are a lot more unforgiving


----------



## hekeli

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> i agree that you can hear differences with cheaper gear to an extent but better cans are a lot more unforgiving


 

 "Unforgiving" - such an audiophile statement. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  I downloaded an really old encoder for fun (BladeEnc from 2004, supposed to be pretty poor?) and made some 128kbit encodes. Even that is still very listenable (quite subtle change to newest lame actually). But what do I know, there are people that even can't stand to listen some specific cables..


----------



## wink

Hearing acuity can be a curse...


----------



## LugBug1

words like 'brutal, harsh, bloated.... from 128kbps...? The sound can be 'wobbly' with poor decay using bitrates as low as this. But the sound will only be harsh etc if the original recording is. Low bit rates don't add anything unwanted.


----------



## wink

Quote:BugLug1 





> Low bit rates don't add anything unwanted.


 
  They just take away some of the goodness.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





hekeli said:


> Yeah that's just stupid snobbery. Modern AAC and MP3 are already near transparent at 128kbit. I don't get what HD800 has to do with it. I can hear the artifacts even with my $15 cans. It's not like better ones magically blast the "defects" to you at +10dB level (edit: well... they might if the cheap cans are REALLY rolled off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I disagree. I managed recently (it was not so easy) to abx some sample encoded at vbr 0 to lossless.
  Also I think that some headphone exaggerate the transients for some frequencies range or make them smoother.
  I know some dj mix that sounds ok on the hd25, and are unbearable with the hd800.
  I don't think it's only lossy compression, but a combination of factors, such like limited dynamic range,
  and V shaped eq applied during the mastering. I guess Skrillex is not pleasant with the hd800 , although it's not my kind of music.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





wink said:


> They just take away some of the goodness.


 
  yup.


----------



## hekeli

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I disagree. I managed recently (it was not so easy) to abx some sample encoded at vbr 0 to lossless.
> Also I think that some headphone exaggerate the transients for some frequencies range or make them smoother.
> I know some dj mix that sounds ok on the hd25, and are unbearable with the hd800.
> I don't think it's only lossy compression, but a combination of factors, such like limited dynamic range,
> and V shaped eq applied during the mastering. I guess Skrillex is not pleasant with the hd800 , although it's not my kind of music.


 
   
   
  Good for you, but identifying vbr0 doesn't mean much. Pretty much indistinguishable from the real thing, especially if casually listening.
   
  We were talking about  compression artifacts, but yes, generally crap in crap out. If Skrillex is crap, I'd still probably prefer it with HD800 over say XB500s, but thats just me. I have  no problem listening to harsh metal either, there's more to gain with good cans than to lose.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





hekeli said:


> Pretty much indistinguishable from the real thing, especially if casually listening.


 
  I don't think you'd buy the hd800 for casual listening. It's a mistake/ waste of money otherwise.
   
  Quote: 





> If Skrillex is crap, I'd still probably prefer it with HD800 over say XB500s,


 
   
  Not obvious. As I've already stated, I prefer some dj  mix with my hd25, than the hd800. 
  Well for instance:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a7T-IirSvc
  And what you call "crap", might be just be mastering optimized for "average" audio systems.
  Radio doesn't sound better, than in the car, but that's just me.
   
  Quote: 





> I have  no problem listening to harsh metal either, there's more to gain with good cans than to lose.


 
  I don't think the hd800 are best for metal, although it's still interesting to listen.
  The problem is not that it sounds "harsh", but I don't find the hd800,  that good for fast paced music.
  My finding is confirmed by the review from headfonia, in their comparison with the T1.
  I quote few statements by mike:
_"Anyway, I know people who listen to Hard Rock and Metal most of the time, and the HD800 just wouldn’t be able to keep up with the pace of their music"_
  or
_"If I can generalize, is that the HD800 is not suitable for fast-paced music, but for medium to slow-paced music, the HD800 is almost always better than the T1."_
  http://www.headfonia.com/hd800-t1/7/
  Traditional recommendation for hd800 , is classical music.


----------



## BournePerfect

The HD800 is significantly 'faster' than the T1...it's just that the somewhat distant soundstage makes us perceive it differently. My biggest gripe with the T1 was in fact, that it seemed slow...my .02. -Daniel


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





rique said:


> I have been listening to music through my IEMs today and noticed that vocals are located dead center between my ears, however with
> my HD800 I notice vocals shifted to the right channel. I cant´s seem to get the left driver to shoot directly to my left ear and am constantly
> fiddling with the position. Anybody else have this issue that can offer advice.
> 
> Thanks, Riq


 

 Test all switches and buttons. You could have bad contact anywhere affecting signal path on the left.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> it's just that the somewhat distant soundstage makes us perceive it differently.


 
   
  Whatever , the hd800 doesn't often  provide a sensation of speed, with genre like metal or psytrance,  either it's a subjective or objective matter.
  A bit annoying to hear something that feels "relaxed", while the original intent of music is to provide something that is "in a hurry".


----------



## NightFlight

So.
   
  I was away for a week or more from all things audiophile. I didn't even listen to my little RE-400s I had with me. On return I found my HD800s a bit underwhelming. After a couple hours of listening, they seemed to open up and impress again. You know, do their thing.
   
  Could this be the brain attuning to fidelity? The amp/tubes just needed to warm up? I don't know anymore. The brain is a fickle thing. Mine... doubly so.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> So.
> 
> I was away for a week or more from all things audiophile. I didn't even listen to my little RE-400s I had with me. On return I found my HD800s a bit underwhelming. After a couple hours of listening, they seemed to open up and impress again. You know, do their thing.
> 
> Could this be the brain attuning to fidelity? The amp/tubes just needed to warm up? I don't know anymore. The brain is a fickle thing. Mine... doubly so.


 
  I wreckon the brain. when i went from hd595 to hd650 at first i could only hear slight differences. now when i look back i say to myself "what was i thinking the differences a so huge"


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Whatever , the hd800 doesn't often  provide a sensation of speed, with genre like metal or psytrance,  either it's a subjective or objective matter.
> A bit annoying to hear something that feels "relaxed", while the original intent of music is to provide something that is "in a hurry".


 
  Also depends on the amp ime. The ZDSE w/ Sophia 6SL7 was a master at speed and brought the stage forward. Really all depends I suppose.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> words like 'brutal, harsh, bloated.... from 128kbps...? The sound can be 'wobbly' with poor decay using bitrates as low as this. But the sound will only be harsh etc if the original recording is. Low bit rates don't add anything unwanted.


 

 Low bit rates do add unwanted artifacts to the file if they are encoded badly as has been mentioned previously. The specific song I was referring to was Usher's older stuff produced by Lil Jon. The 128 kbps version had nasty clipping when there were loud phrases sung by Usher (blame that on the encoding) and the instruments did not sound natural at all. Now, you could state that modern compression in the mastering/mixing phase has removed the "natural" feel of instruments but MP3 compression also does not help and actually worsens the overall tonality (and decay if you listen carefully).
   
   
  Quote: 





hekeli said:


> Yeah that's just stupid snobbery. Modern AAC and MP3 are already near transparent at 128kbit. I don't get what HD800 has to do with it. I can hear the artifacts even with my $15 cans. It's not like better ones magically blast the "defects" to you at +10dB level (edit: well... they might if the cheap cans are REALLY rolled off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Snobbery? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have been doing audio engineering for a good number of years and let me tell you, if you have trained ears and I am not talking about the "_snake oil golden ear audiophile's_" ear, just trained ears then you will easily detract these faults within the lower bit rates.
  Now, at 320 kbps it is extremely hard to discern any defects when comparing with the loss-less version.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> I wreckon the brain. when i went from hd595 to hd650 at first i could only hear slight differences. now when i look back i say to myself "what was i thinking the differences a so huge"


 
  I had them two phones and had the exact same experience! I wasn't overwhelmed at all when I compared the two after acquiring the 650's. But as time went on the differences became very apparent.
   
  Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> Now, at 320 kbps it is extremely hard to discern any defects when comparing with the loss-less version.


 
  +1


----------



## Mediahound

Is there a consensus on the Crutchfield factory refurbished HD800? Worth it or not?


----------



## nigeljames

I heard the statement that the HD800's were not ideal for fast music and I always thought it was a strange thing to say given that the Hd800's are a very fast phone.
   
  I now have the HD800's and listen to rock & metal and the Hd800's handle it superbly. Transients are handled perfectly, soundstage is not distant or to wide and plenty of deep tight impactful bass when required. They are at least as good as the T1's.
   
  I have also heard the HD800's described as 'passive', well they sound pretty assertive and exciting to me


----------



## LugBug1

Thing is... If the HD800's are supposedly great with classical and are not so good at fast music... Hmmm Liszt? Chopin..? Basically any crescendo from a Mozart symphony is faster than Slayer!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Thing is... If the HD800's are supposedly great with classical and are not so good at fast music... Hmmm Liszt? Chopin..? Basically any crescendo from a Mozart symphony is faster than Slayer!


 
  well said


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> I heard the statement that the HD800's were not ideal for fast music and I always thought it was a strange thing to say given that the Hd800's are a very fast phone.
> 
> I now have the HD800's and listen to rock & metal and the Hd800's handle it superbly. Transients are handled perfectly, soundstage is not distant or to wide and plenty of deep tight impactful bass when required. They are at least as good as the T1's.
> 
> I have also heard the HD800's described as 'passive', well they sound pretty assertive and exciting to me


 

 Perhaps because the enormous sound stage gives an impression to listeners that it is not suited for fast-paced music however I find that on the contrary, it is excellent and very fast but not as fast as stats.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> Perhaps because the enormous sound stage gives an impression to listeners that it is not suited for fast-paced music however I find that on the contrary, it is excellent and very fast but not as fast as stats.


 
  Been saying this for a while now. The only dynamic I've heard that comes close is the AD2000-but even the Senn bests that in speed.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## negura

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> Perhaps because the enormous sound stage gives an impression to listeners that it is not suited for fast-paced music however I find that on the contrary, it is excellent and very fast but not as fast as stats.


 
   
  As you say it may be a matter of preference. But one thing I found to note is that compared to (many/my) speakers even the HD800s can sound congested. And those speakers rock hard. I love the HD800s with any genre really.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> Perhaps because the enormous sound stage gives an impression to listeners that it is not suited for fast-paced music


 
  My guess is  that the amount of subass  (below 100 hz) have an impact too,  and "sharper" highs would help (what my cheaper srh940 provide).
  By "sharper"  I actually mean a slight emphasis on transients (when content is harsh, headphone can even make it more obvious) , rather than an emphasis on treble.
  The hd800 is more on the smooth side for me. Perhaps the presentation of transients by the  hd800  sound more "natural" with true instruments, but it's less seducing but with "synthetic" genres like  industrial.
   
   
  @lugbug1
  Quote: 





> If the HD800's are supposedly great with classical and are not so good at fast music... Hmmm Liszt? Chopin..? Basically any crescendo from a Mozart symphony is faster than Slayer!


 
   
    I'd notice, that you don't have fast paced bass on classical music. No fast  bass beat pattern like psytrance. Nor it's surcharged with treble energy like metal.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





> I'd notice, that you don't have fast paced bass on classical music. No fast  bass beat pattern like psytrance. Nor it's surcharged with treble energy like metal.


 
   
  This is a very good comment I think. For everything that the HD800s do great, and yes that includes metal too for me, with this genre, the LCD-3s are simply better. 
   
  A side note: I have 2 USB interfaces I am playing with at the moment. The Hydra X is amazing with the HD800s as it adds bass, body and does not emphasize on the treble. In this combination metal music is superb with the HD800s too.


----------



## LugBug1

> @lugbug1
> 
> I'd notice, that you don't have fast paced bass on classical music. No fast  bass beat pattern like psytrance. Nor it's surcharged with treble energy like metal.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





negura said:


> This is a very good comment I think. For everything that the HD800s do great, and yes that includes metal too for me, with this genre, the LCD-3s are simply better.
> 
> A side note: I have 2 USB interfaces I am playing with at the moment. The Hydra X is amazing with the HD800s as it adds bass, body and does not emphasize on the treble. In this combination metal music is superb with the HD800s too.


 
   
  Tell me more about the Hydra X - I've had my eye on this converter.


----------



## technica18

mediahound said:


> Is there a consensus on the Crutchfield factory refurbished HD800? Worth it or not?




Some people were saying that it looked like new but the one I ordered looked like it fell off the back of a truck. You might have more luck though.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Tell me more about the Hydra X - I've had my eye on this converter.


 
   
  $970USD to get it to the US... pass.


----------



## Mediahound

technica18 said:


> Some people were saying that it looked like new but the one I ordered looked like it fell off the back of a truck. You might have more luck though.





Thanks. I guess they have a good return policy. Were you able to return yours?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> $970USD to get it to the US... pass.


----------



## technica18

mediahound said:


> Thanks. I guess they have a good return policy. Were you able to return yours?




Yes, they were very kind. Even paid for return shipping.


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Is there a consensus on the Crutchfield factory refurbished HD800? Worth it or not?


 
   
  I'm very happy with mine.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Tell me more about the Hydra X - I've had my eye on this converter.


 
   
  It's very good, but very different sounding than my Audiophilleo. Hydra does impressively strong bass, more intimate fuller bodied sound. It's very relaxed and smooth, yet detailed. Nothing I've heard beats the Audiophilleo in terms of pure resolution, soundstage and imaging though.


----------



## Mediahound

bobjs said:


> I'm very happy with mine.




I just ordered a refurb one. Keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I just ordered a refurb one. Keeping my fingers crossed.


 
   
  Hope it works out for you.  Got mine in Jan, totally happy with it (thinking of getting another one)
   
  Crutchfield's return policy is pretty good.  So give it a try, if u're not happy with it, return it.


----------



## zigy626

Guy's I have noticed that on these forums people are skeptical about Burn-in with HD800 but I have to say that I have noticed a considerable difference between the music since I bought the HD800 in April. The sound has opened up considerably to a point where I am finding the experience more like listening to speakers. But initially the sound was more like a typical headphone. Its just become so enjoyable to a point where I dont miss speakers. Now I justify paying £1000 for a pair of headphones.


----------



## Mediahound

Now that my HD800s are on the way, I'm wondering about the cable. Should I bother getting an aftermarket cable? If so, which ones are the best bang for the buck?
   
  I read elsewhere that basically with an aftermarket cable you often pay 20%-30% (or more) of the cost of the headphones themselves, yet would only see a maximum of 5% sound quality increase so it may not be worth it. Thoughts?


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Guy's I have noticed that on these forums people are skeptical about Burn-in with HD800 but I have to say that I have noticed a considerable difference between the music since I bought the HD800 in April. The sound has opened up considerably to a point where I am finding the experience more like listening to speakers. But initially the sound was more like a typical headphone. Its just become so enjoyable to a point where I dont miss speakers. Now I justify paying £1000 for a pair of headphones.


 

 It is hard to say, but I believe that I do concur, with all the usual caveats re audio memory or your mind getting used to the sonic presentation from a can. I think I have had mine 1.5 to 2 years now.
   
  I have heard people say that the treble gets toned down overtime as well. That is something I did not experience, but for me treble was never an issue.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Now that my HD800s are on the way, I'm wondering about the cable. Should I bother getting an aftermarket cable? If so, which ones are the best bang for the buck?
> 
> I read elsewhere that basically with an aftermarket cable you often pay 20%-30% (or more) of the cost of the headphones themselves, yet would only see a maximum of 5% sound quality increase so it may not be worth it. Thoughts?


 
  imo the stock cable is pretty good, apart from the length is a bit too long for my liking. I would see how you get on with it first.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Now that my HD800s are on the way, I'm wondering about the cable. Should I bother getting an aftermarket cable? If so, which ones are the best bang for the buck?
> 
> I read elsewhere that basically with an aftermarket cable you often pay 20%-30% (or more) of the cost of the headphones themselves, yet would only see a maximum of 5% sound quality increase so it may not be worth it. Thoughts?


 
  Personnally i just received a Cardas cable only reason i wanted a cable is because the origininal one was to long so i had a 4 foot one made with Connex connectors and Furutect 1/4 inch jack total cot $235.00 ca. Cable is the blue cardas cable now i did not buy it to improve the sound  just to shorten the wire does it sound better i dont think so its not worst than before its as good i think so dont go crazy unless you can listen for yourself and really ear that difference.


----------



## rawrster

It depends on your usage. I have an aftermarket cable to make the cable shorter and to get a 4 pin XLR plug instead. Also the aftermarket cable I have tangles less which was another reason for it.


----------



## Solude

Aftermarket cable for me is ergonomics.  Sound benefit is just gravy.


----------



## rgs9200m

Get yerself a nice Moon Black Dragon HD800 cable with a Furutech connector. Drew lets you audition them for week or so, but I bet they won't be going back.
  They are a great match for the 800s (fuller tight bass, more overall ease at all frequencies). Drew does great work and I have used his cables for years.


----------



## philo50

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> Get yerself a nice Moon Black Dragon HD800 cable with a Furutech connector. Drew lets you audition them for week or so, but I bet they won't be going back.
> They are a great match for the 800s (fuller tight bass, more overall ease at all frequencies). Drew does great work and I have used his cables for years.


 
  +1


----------



## Cante Ista

I have both the Black Dragon and ALO Salty Pepper on for my HD800 -- both improved the sound. Slight edge to Black Dragon but that one is 4 pin XLR and ALO is 1/4 inch.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





solude said:


> Aftermarket cable for me is ergonomics.  Sound benefit is just gravy.


 
  Diito here, I got my 'Q' French silk for 4pin XLR, lighter more flexible cable, color (I like red), and longer.


----------



## preproman

Has anyone tried this cable for the HD800s?
   
  http://www.stefanaudioart.com/Endorphin%20HD800%20Med%20Pic1%20SE%20CONN%20Ver.htm
   
  http://www.stefanaudioart.com/


----------



## Frank I

I picked up the Woo WA5 today and am listening to the hd800 on it now with the upgrade tubes and all I can say both the amp and tubes ar eonly 2 hrs in  and I am flabbergasted on how good this sound with the hd800. My wife said this is the best she ever heard my headphones sound and thats a high compliment from her.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I picked up the Woo WA5 today and am listening to the hd800 on it now with the upgrade tubes and all I can say both the amp and tubes ar eonly 2 hrs in  and I am flabbergasted on how good this sound with the hd800. My wife said this is the best she ever heard my headpohne swith and thats a high compliment form her.


 
  The wa5 has been something I have watched in the past but the price in the end scared me away. I would love to see some comparisons to other TOTL tube amps like the DNA Stratus or the EC 2A3. 
   
  In any case, congrats Frank!. Sorry we could not meet at the DC meet.


----------



## PinkLed

Quote: 





> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Meaning some of the harshness to the highs will be improved??


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> The wa5 has been something I have watched in the past but the price in the end scared me away. I would love to see some comparisons to other TOTL tube amps like the DNA Stratus or the EC 2A3.
> 
> In any case, congrats Frank!. Sorry we could not meet at the DC meet.


 
  I am sorry i couldn't get there as well. I will do a full review of the WA5 in  the fall and try to compare it to other amps I owned and heard including the Stratus. I have notes on the dna form the week I had it here.  This is the most expensive tube amp I have for headphones and it does a great job with speakers too. The sounds is fantastic and the amp is only a few hours in and will see how it sounds in about 150 hrs.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> Meaning some of the harshness to the highs will be improved??


 
  Yeah, absolutely, that's exactly what it helps with significantly.


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Whatever , the hd800 doesn't often  provide a sensation of speed, with genre like metal or psytrance,  either it's a subjective or objective matter.
> A bit annoying to hear something that feels "relaxed", while the original intent of music is to provide something that is "in a hurry".


 
  It may be that your system is simply not up to par with the headphones. The HD800's are much faster than any dynamic headphone out there, and there's nothing that can convince me otherwise.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> It may be that your system is simply not up to par with the headphones. The HD800's are much faster than any dynamic headphone out there, and there's nothing that can convince me otherwise.


 
  +1. I listen to tons of electronic music -- all kinds -- and never found HD800 slow. We could hear things differently though, just as well.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> The HD800's are much faster than any dynamic headphone out there, and there's nothing that can convince me otherwise.


 
  Off course if you are following a  kind of "cult" with your hd800...
  Is there are any objective data  (graph or whatever) that shows it's faster than the sr940 ?
  The only thing I'm convinced,  is that the hd800 sound cleaner, and you can see it in the thd+n graph
  at innerfidelity.
   
  @cante isla
  Quote: 





> +1. I listen to tons of electronic music -- all kinds -- and never found HD800 slow.


 
  I'm not saying the hd800 are slow. They are the fastest sennheiser headphone I tried (I also tried hd595, hd25, senn ie7, pmx680). However I've heard "subjectively" faster with the srh940, and a sensation of big speed can be sometimes  gratifying.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





> @cante isla
> I'm not saying the hd800 are slow. They are the fastest sennheiser headphone I tried (I also tried hd595, hd25, senn ie7, pmx680). However I've heard "subjectively" faster with the srh940, and a sensation of big speed can be sometimes  gratifying.


 
  Gotcha! I never heard the Shures, so I dont know. thanks for clarifying.


----------



## dleblanc343

Extrabigmedhi, I thought we've through this before lol  the HD800's are faster in response compared to the 940's and I have a hard time understanding how you feel you hear otherwise.

I'm not obsessed with the HD800 as if I were a cult follower... I just give credit where it's due and find it to be my best overall headphone by a little notch over the HE6. Again, I don't know what your rig is, and am starting to believe you do not own this headphone because your assessments are not logical to me.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> Extrabigmedhi, I thought we've through this before lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You heard the srh940 ? And it"s not for every kind of music.
  Try for instance track stilettos by "holy ****", or anarchy by skazy  with both headphones.
  Off course the hd800 handles classical music effortlessly.
  And again, what objective data shows that the hd800 is faster ?
   
  Quote: 





> Again, I don't know what your rig is, and am starting to believe you do not own this headphone because your assessments are not logical to me


 
  Yes I  own the hd800 , but I  don't listen to it all the time.  I  left them in an other town/house.
  Currently it's hot, and these days I'm a bit currently indifferent with the headphone I  use (any kind of music that relax, or whatever). It's probably my "rig" that you'd say that sucks, although I'm skeptical that a better  rig would improve speed.


----------



## Solude

The HD800 isn't faster than every other headphone in the objective impulse sense.  It is the fastest of any kind though at stopping on a dime.  Everything else, everything, continues to vibrate after the source has stopped.  That is the speed advantage the HD800 has.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





solude said:


> The HD800 isn't faster than every other headphone in the objective impulse sense.  It is the fastest of any kind though at stopping on a dime.  Everything else, everything, continues to vibrate after the source has stopped.  That is the speed advantage the HD800 has.


 

 Great. I  believe the hd800 handle well the decay of each note .Thanks to this, it's easier to separate each note in the time, and it's cleaner (perfect for classical,  I  hear the silence between each notes, even if it's fast). However some music are craving for aggressivity/energy , and the "attack"  of the hd800, might leave you wanting more.

 I believe such behavior can be seen in the impulse responses (pic below).
 The first peak of hd800 is not so well  marked, but the decay is relatively clean and fast (we reach faster zero).
 On the contrary , the srh940 has a sharp and high,  first marked peak , and the decay is so so.
   

  Anyways, just asked mike from headfonia on that matter (i.e  perceived speed of hd800 with metal or psytrance).


----------



## NightFlight

magiccabbage said:


> well said





I believe it to be a source equipment issue when the 800s seem to fail. This has been iterated many many times. I've been on this Lyr/tube journey for a while now. I think the 800s do very well at revealing the nuance of the chain. Still enjoying the ride...


----------



## NightFlight

extrabigmehdi said:


> Great. I  believe the hd800 handle well the decay of each note .Thanks to this, it's easier to separate each note in the time, and it's cleaner (perfect for classical,  I  hear the silence between each notes, even if it's fast). However some music are craving for aggressivity/energy , and the "attack"  of the hd800, might leave you wanting more.
> 
> 
> I believe such behavior can be seen in the impulse responses (pic below).
> ...





hmm. Interesting peak. But a graph only shows one transient. In reality these are overlapped all over the place, so minimal decay should help with perceived speed as well. Well, in the end the best test is to give them a listen.


----------



## Kojaku

While we're talking about objective measurements...:




   
  Haha 
   
  Kojaku


----------



## Mediahound

Anyone know the sound quality differences with the HD800 between the Moon audio Black Dragon and the blue Dragon? The black dragon apparently has crystallized copper cable, whereas the blue Dragon has standard copper cable.


----------



## Solude

Only difference is gauge and jacket colour.  If you have seen the HD800 connector and internal wiring you wouldn't pay more for the Black Dragon.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

So I asked mike from headfonia regarding perceived speed for metal,  or psytrance on hd800 vs srh940.
  Here's the answer from mike:
   
940 is definitely better for metal and yes the speed is faster too.
   
  I asked this on the Q & A section.
   


  http://www.headfonia.com/q-a-2012-2/
   
  Sorry , but I'm not hallucinating, and I don't think it's because of my rig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  This doesn't contradict the fact that the hd800 handles well classical music, imho.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> So I asked mike from headfonia regarding perceived speed for metal,  or psytrance on hd800 vs srh940.
> Here's the answer from mike:
> 
> 940 is definitely better for metal and yes the speed is faster too.
> ...


 
  Why'd you have to ask Mike? We all hear differently. Which ever you perceive as faster or better is, well, good for you.


----------



## Kojaku

extrabigmehdi said:


> So I asked mike from headfonia regarding perceived speed for metal,  or psytrance on hd800 vs srh940.
> Here's the answer from mike:
> 
> 
> ...




The physics and measurements don't work out in either yours or Mike's favor, my friend. The ring radiator's more planar wave front definitely results in the fastest transients of any dynamic. You can see it in the impulse responses...

Kojaku


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Why'd you have to ask Mike? We all hear differently. Which ever you perceive as faster or better is, well, good for you.


 

 Because he reviewed lot of headphones, and statements here like : "The HD800's are much faster than any dynamic headphone out there".


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Because he reviewed lot of headphones, and statements here like : "The HD800's are much faster than any dynamic headphone out there".


 
  And that matters because? It comes down to how each person subjectively 
  perceives which headphone is faster. Just because Mike is "more qualified" than other's
  doesn't change that fact.
   
  You've shared your experience and other's have shared their's. Why drag it on any longer.
  If you'd like you can take a whole bunch of measurements and go discuss it in Sound Science.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





kojaku said:


> . You can see it in the impulse responses...


 
  You can see on the impulse that the hd800 provide better decay, while the srh940 provide better attack, which could result in a different perception of speed.  I've discussed this on the  post, just before you exhibited your nice rig.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> And that matters because? It comes down to how each person subjectively
> perceives which headphone is faster. Just because Mike is "more qualified" than other's
> doesn't change that fact.


 
  It doesn't matter at all. It's all started when lubug1 stated that even metal is more enjoyable on the hd800, because they are top notch or whatever. And I partially  disagree.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> It doesn't matter at all. It's all started when lubug1 stated that even metal is more enjoyable on the hd800, because they are top notch or whatever. And I partially  disagree.


 
  Clearly, Lug knows what he's talking about.


----------



## Maxvla

Perhaps we are talking about a semantic problem. The proper descriptor of the HD800s is that they are more agile than the 940. They start and stop sooner and have a cleaner impulse response. The first peak of the 940 is impressive but the rebound is not good and it continues to be not good until resolution much later than the HD800.

The term speed is derived from the HD800 resolving *faster* between sounds than other headphones. It has nothing to do with impact like you are describing, or the sensation of music being at a higher tempo which you also seem to be describing.


----------



## Kojaku

maxvla said:


> Perhaps we are talking about a semantic problem. The proper descriptor of the HD800s is that they are more agile than the 940. They start and stop sooner and have a cleaner impulse response. The first peak of the 940 is impressive but the rebound is not good and it continues to be not good until resolution much later than the HD800.
> 
> The term speed is derived from the HD800 resolving *faster* between sounds than other headphones. It has nothing to do with impact like you are describing, or the sensation of music being at a higher tempo which you also seem to be describing.




I actually agree on this. I should say that hd800 speed is less reckless. Perhaps that isn't comparable to outright speed. I feel like metal would be grating on a can with an impulse like the 940 though...

Kojaku


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Perhaps we are talking about a semantic problem. The proper descriptor of the HD800s is that they are more agile than the 940. [...]
> The term speed is derived from the HD800 resolving *faster* between sounds than other headphones. It has nothing to do with impact like you are describing, or the sensation of music being at a higher tempo which you also seem to be describing.


 
   
  Let's use the word "agile" for the hd800 if you prefer. But music  is also about emotions, and the "sensation of music being at a higher tempo" makes a difference to me. The hd800 let you  "examine" everything, just like if you were looking at a drawing, but it's not always involving.
   
  Quote: 





kojaku said:


> I feel like metal would be grating on a can with an impulse like the 940 though...


 
   
  Metal definitely sounds  smoother on the hd800, but there are times the overly crisp / sharp sound of the srh940 suits better the genre.


----------



## Solude

The word is aggression or attack.  It's related to control or lack there of not speed.  As for Mike... he doesn't get to try much mid to high level gear aside from the headphones.  So does the 940 do better on a $300 dac/amp combo than the HD800?  Probably


----------



## preproman

NVM  -  I read it wrong.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





preproman said:


> The answer to this is


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> So I asked mike from headfonia regarding perceived speed for metal,  or psytrance on hd800 vs srh940.
> Here's the answer from mike:
> 
> 940 is definitely better for metal and yes the speed is faster too.
> ...


 
  There are only a few headphones that I truly "hate...and sorry, the SRH940s are one of them. They are single A ball at best (more like sandlot) while the HD800s are The Show....no doubt to my ears. But playing the HD800s on a "meh" rig will underwhelm the listener too. Get that right (amp/dac/source) and they will reward you in spades.
   
  Way too much treble and bass that is none existent...simply horrible to my ears. The HD800s are the most transparent/clean sounding dynamic headphones out there.


----------



## Pustik

I've finally acquired amplifier for my hd 800 which was the last piece that I needed. After about 2 month of search I've finally decided to go with solid state amp.
   
  Here is my setup FLAC  ->  VLC  ->  Burson DA-160  ->  Rockhopper Beta 22 6-channel  -> HD 800.
   
  Humongous difference between my logitech speakers and this setup.
   
  Sounds amazing, especially classical, jazz, flamenco guitar. All minor details that i havent heard before now stand out clearly.
   
  Tried listening to hip-hop, rnb it sounded poorly. It sounded like it sounds on my speakers, unimpressed.
   
  Blu-ray movies sound awesome. Action movies are much more dynamic, sound is at real as it gets.
   
  It seems to be popular debate about bass on sennheisers hd 800, with my setup bass is more than enough, actually i want less of bass, yes im serious.
   
  First song that ive listened to on my setup was Whitney Houston - I will always love you, I felt like i was in heaven, I listened to it more than 5 times yesterday I couldnt get enough of it.
   
  Some inconveniences that i should point out.
   
  First, switching from speakers to headphones in computer settings can be tedious,
   
   
  I will be adding more impressions as i had my setup for only one day, overall im very happy but now i pick music to listen to when i have my headphones.


----------



## wink

Quote: 





> Get yerself a nice Moon Black Dragon HD800 cable with a Furutech connector. Drew lets you audition them for week or so, but I bet they won't be going back.
> They are a great match for the 800s (fuller tight bass, more overall ease at all frequencies). Drew does great work and I have used his cables for years.


 
  +2


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> It doesn't matter at all. It's all started when lubug1 stated that even metal is more enjoyable on the hd800, because they are top notch or whatever. And I partially  disagree.


 
  Erm don't bring me back into this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
   
  He started it not me!


----------



## Solude

On the actual metal part of the argument... HD800 is an awesome metal/punk/alternative can because that quick to stop trait keeps these genres from turning into a wall of sound.  I zero out the treble ridge on them to bring cymbals back in line but otherwise great.  Generally speaking those music types don't need to be any dirtier.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





pustik said:


> I've finally acquired amplifier for my hd 800 which was the last piece that I needed. After about 2 month of search I've finally decided to go with solid state amp.
> 
> Here is my setup FLAC  ->  VLC  ->  Burson DA-160  ->  Rockhopper Beta 22 6-channel  -> HD 800.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  First thing you might want to start working with is a dedicated music player like Foobar (http://www.foobar2000.org/) this is free or J. River (http://jriver.com/) this has a free trial.  This is if your using a PC, there's others if your using a MAC.  
   
  Leave VLC or video playback if possible.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





solude said:


> The word is aggression or attack.  It's related to control or lack there of not speed.


 
  Yeah, I'd like more "aggression or attack" on hd800,  when I  keep the sound of srh940 in mind.  I'm not surprised that you are accusing the rig once again. With genre like classical I'm not missing this.
   
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> There are only a few headphones that I truly "hate...and sorry, the SRH940s are one of them.[...]  Way too much treble and bass that is none existent...simply horrible to my ears.


 
  This was my original impression but it evolved with time:  they are just quite sensitive to positioning. And other considerations, I'll skip here.
   
  Edit, regarding metal:
  Quote: 





> @Solude
> Generally speaking those music types don't need to be any dirtier.


 
  Cleaner is enjoyable, but energy matters too.
   
  And finally:  I'm not saying the hd800 are bad for metal (it's still interesting to listen, with hd800 qualities) , they just wouldn't be my primary choice.


----------



## Solude

Energy is in the recording and only needs bumping up if the source isn't picking it up.  As for gear... I had the HD800 twice before and simply thought it was a lifeless, distant, mess.  So there is something to the whole gear thing.


----------



## Frank I

X2. Everyone has their subjective opinion but what matters most is what sounds good to you not to anyone else. Mike opinion may be completely different than other people, and while it may be valid to one person it can be completely different to another person.


----------



## dallan

I look at peoples profiles and see if they own or have ever owned the headphone in question, thus it can give me an ability to weigh there posts.  There was one user who used to post issues with the 800 and admittedly he didn't own one pair of headphones.  If you look at what they own and are used to hearing, you can see where comments come from often.  
   
  I jump around between four closed and two open pairs.  I have heard many others at meets that i will occasionally comment on but i usually leave most of the discussion to those who own or have sold them due to the fact that they have more insight from actually to living with the phones.  That said, the HD800 gets most use, and that is with live music, rock and jazz.  No hip hop or rap here, every now and then some jamband electronica.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





solude said:


> Energy is in the recording and only needs bumping up if the source isn't picking it up.  As for gear... I had the HD800 twice before and simply thought it was a lifeless, distant, mess.  So there is something to the whole gear thing.


 

  when you did have it on those 2 occasions was it with different gear each time? Why did you buy it a 3rd time? i presume you got upgrades and gave it another go. what changed your mind?


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Because he reviewed lot of headphones, and statements here like : "The HD800's are much faster than any dynamic headphone out there".


 
  But this is Mike, he runs a business and his hearing is not "the" reference. Most people here who actually know sound and can critique things hold no regard for his opinions, I'm sorry.
   
  But the 940's can definitely be better for the music you've described, because that's your take on it and how you like it.
  Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> You can see on the impulse that the hd800 provide better decay, while the srh940 provide better attack, which could result in a different perception of speed.  I've discussed this on the  post, just before you exhibited your nice rig.


 
  I'm sorry but you did not read the impulse response graph correctly. It's in front of our eyes to see, the HD800's recover quicker so I'm bringing back the image for you to double-check


>


----------



## Pustik

NVM.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

@dleblanc343
   
  Quote: 





> But this is Mike, he runs a business and his hearing is not "the" reference. Most people here who actually know sound and can critique things hold no regard for his opinions, I'm sorry.


 
  It's so easy to disregard opinions that are not the same as yours. I was ready to accept whatever impression from mike. I asked him because he reviewed both the srh940 & hd800.
  Also mike discussed a lot about synergy of hd800 with rig , and tried many rig , so I assume he tried a "proper" rig for the hd800.
  I could point out to other post , with people that agree that hd800 might not be best for metal,  but you'd disregard them as well.
   
  Oh yeah, just found an other review for you, I quote Asr:
   
HD800 was consistently too passive-sounding to really get into metal and give it that needed aggression. I will say simply that the HD800 was boring with metal, and who wants boring metal ?
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/511201/review-beyerdynamic-t1-vs-sennheiser-hd800
   
  He used the word aggression, this hit the nails for me.
   
  Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> I'm sorry but you did not read the impulse response graph correctly. It's in front of our eyes to see, the HD800's recover quicker so I'm bringing back the image for you to double-check


 
   
  The hd800 recover quicker, where do I have denied this ? But the srh940 attack is better : can't you see the sharp and elevated first peak ?
  Anyway, this just correlates what I'm hearing .


----------



## Maxvla

extrabigmehdi said:


> @dleblanc343
> 
> It's so easy to disregard opinions that are not the same as yours. I was ready to accept whatever impression from mike. I asked him because he reviewed both the srh940 & hd800.
> Also mike discussed a lot about synergy of hd800 with rig , and tried many rig , so I assume he tried a "proper" rig for the hd800.
> ...


The most aggressive rig I've ever heard, period, was my Gungnir -> Bryston BHA-1 -> HD800 (balanced). It was so aggressive I had to have a change and went for a more neutral presentation in the X-Sabre and GS-X2. I've heard almost all of the modern Grados, some of the most aggressive headphones out there and they paled in comparison.

Regarding the impulse response, you keep looking at it in a vacuum. Music is hundreds of impulses smashed together constantly, you can't just look at it in a vacuum of one impulse. The rebound difference is very telling of why the HD800 sounds so much cleaner and can adapt to the music being played through it. It can be ultra smooth for jazz/vocal or it can be aggressive for metal/electronica, all because it has a cleaner response. The SRH940 is always-on aggressive. This is probably why it only sounds good with certain genres. 

Think of impulse response like a race car accelerating and braking. The HD800 is the car that accelerates right to the tip of the braking zone, slows just enough through the corner to stay stable and hits the gas at the end of braking/cornering zone. The SRH940 guns the gas too deep into the corner getting there faster, but losing control and slipping around, and getting on the gas after the HD800 has already passed them again. That is looking at it in a vacuum of a single impulse. Add 100 cars going through the same corner, you are much more likely to see a ton of wrecks from the SRH940 because it's 'cars' are slipping and sliding everywhere as well as bunching up in the corner from getting there fast and getting out slow. Then you see the HD800 set all driving through cleanly because they are going the proper speeds and maintaining control.

With the SRH940, once you get past the first impulse, into the next and the next, you are already out of control and the loss of control stays with the sound until it stops again. This results in an aggressive harsh muddy sound that is what I've heard from them.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> The most aggressive rig I've ever heard, period, was my Gungnir -> Bryston BHA-1 -> HD800 (balanced). It was so aggressive I had to have a change and went for a more neutral presentation in the X-Sabre and GS-X2. I've heard almost all of the modern Grados, some of the most aggressive headphones out there and they paled in comparison.


 
   
  Interesting, although just to clarify things, I'm talking of how it affect perceived speed, not just peaky/harsh treble.
   
  Quote: 





> The HD800 is the car that accelerates right to the tip of the braking zone, slows just enough through the corner to stay stable and hits the gas at the end of braking/cornering zone.


 
  Yeah, the hd800 achieve a good control, it's sounds perhaps overall  more natural or accurate. But there would be more excitement with the hd800 ,  if according to your description "the car accelerated more before reaching the tip".
   
  Quote: 





> With the SRH940, once you get past the first impulse, into the next and the next, you are already out of control and the loss of control stays with the sound until it stops again. This results in an aggressive harsh muddy sound that is what I've heard from them.


 
  Yes the srh940 are muddier, but there are times I'm willing to trade the  clean sound of hd800 for more excitement. And as someone pointed out , metal is already "dirty", and a layer of muddiness doesn't hurt that much.
   
  Ideally I'd have both: clean sound & aggressiveness.


----------



## Maxvla

Actually you mis-read his comment. He said metal doesn't need to be any dirtier. When energetic music is ultra clean, it sounds fast. When it is muddy it sounds hazy and slow.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> When it is muddy it sounds hazy and slow.


 
  Impact of percussions on srh940 are sharp and strong, it overcomes the layer of muddiness. And the srh940 are only muddy when compared to hd800, they sound cleaner than my hd595.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> when you did have it on those 2 occasions was it with different gear each time? Why did you buy it a 3rd time?


 
   
  First time was with an AMB 22 and Stello DA220 Mk2, second time Apex Peak and W4S DAC-2 and third time out Burson Soloist and PS Audio PWD2.  Since swapped the Soloist for the GS-X mk2 and yet another climb up the dynamic, bass weight, natural ladder.
   
  And I kept buying the HD800 for the same reason we all do... I'm dumb   Right now I'm thinking of buying the LCD-3... again /facepalm


----------



## palmfish

To use a home theater analogy, many people like to watch their TV with the sharpness control turned up - otherwise known as "edge enhancement."
   
  Its not accurate (it's actually adding distortion) but it can give the impression of more detail. If someone finds it pleasing, then it's there for them.


----------



## dukeskd

Metal music is already muddy as it is from shoddy mastering/mixing. I wouldn't think adding more "mud" is going to help at all.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> Metal music is already muddy as it is from shoddy mastering/mixing. I wouldn't think adding more "mud" is going to help at all.


 
  True, but I used to like Grado's with rock music. Though I only really listen to older classics. Albums like the first few Led Zep albums should be dirty sounding imo  HD800's aren't ideal for older recordings like these because they take your focus off the rockn'roll and onto the recording. Plus the stereo separation on those oldies is quite extreme; think of Hendrix's experiments in the studio and the Beatles too. These can actually sound annoying with a headphone as technically sound as the Senns. 
   
  This where I'd actually prefer the LCD2's. They are great for older recordings.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Impact of percussions on srh940 are sharp and strong, it overcomes the layer of muddiness. And the srh940 are only muddy when compared to hd800, they sound cleaner than my hd595.


 

 I have the hd595's and my friend has the shr940's, he has since gotten into speakers and has loaned me the shr940's. they are no way near as clear as the hd595''s IMO. i have not heard the hd800 but i can only imagine that the shr940's pale in comparison to them in every department. I also have to say that i prefer the hd280 pro to the shr940 and have recently got my hands on the shr440 ( a very underrated headphone compared with 840/940) and prefer these also.
   
  shure got it right with the 840 and IMO there is no need for the 940 as they do not offer anything more. they actually fall down in some departments. i have been finding them dry and hollow over the last few weeks.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> I have the hd595's and my friend has the shr940's, he has since gotten into speakers and has loaned me the shr940's. they are no way near as clear as the hd595''s IMO. i have not heard the hd800 but i can only imagine that the shr940's pale in comparison to them in every department.


 
   You didn't hear the hd800 with (fast) metal. There's at least mike that agree with me that the srh940 are better for metal. If you look at objective measurements from innerfidelity,  the impulse response of hd595 is a mess. I've never  a heard headphone slower than hd595, but I enjoy it with some musics.
   
  Quote:


> i have been finding them dry and hollow over the last few weeks.


 
  The srh940 sounded catastrophic with a bad source, and bad positioning. I liked better my ksc75, when both plugged on my onboard realtek soundcard. This is an already different story when using a xonar stx (very crisp ,  detailed treble) ,. And if you play with position of headphone on head  you can  have more bass, and less aggressive treble.  I didn't hear the srh840.


----------



## BlancoTheBull

Can anybody answer the following:

 I'm really thinking of buying a Sennheiser HDVD800 and HD800.
  But I use my current headphone (Senn HD598 with Fiio E17) alot of the time for movie/series and gaming (about +60%, -40% for music).
  Does anybody know how good (or bad) the (HD 800) is for gaming and multimedia?
  I only have 8 days to decide if I keep them (HD and HDVD800) or not when I choose to buy them.
  So I try to get as much info as possible before the actual purchase.
  Thanks alot for the person able to answer my question .


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





blancothebull said:


> Can anybody answer the following:
> 
> I'm really thinking of buying a Sennheiser HDVD800 and HD800.
> But I use my current headphone (Senn HD598 with Fiio E17) alot of the time for movie/series and gaming (about +60%, -40% for music).
> Does anybody know how good (or bad) the (HD 800) is for gaming and multimedia?


 
   
  The hd598/hd595 are more comfy to me : more  lightweight, and no big pad that stick on the jaw.
  There are chance you'd dismiss your hd598 after hearing the hd800, but I'd try other brand too.
  I'm suspecting that sennheiser  has done it's best so that the hd800 looks as an upgrade in every way  to his lower models;  but with other brands, it could overlap with some qualities of the hd800.
  Try also the hd600/hd650, some prefer it.


----------



## BournePerfect

HD800s are probably the best can out there for gaming...especially MP where locating positions is crucial. I also LOVE them for movies, the enormous soundstage gets the sounds out of your head-and movies are much more dynamic than music so you tend to get all the frequencies needed, bass impact etc...watching Avatar for the first time with my HD800s was incredible...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## PinkLed

Quote: 





blancothebull said:


> Can anybody answer the following:
> 
> I'm really thinking of buying a Sennheiser HDVD800 and HD800.
> But I use my current headphone (Senn HD598 with Fiio E17) alot of the time for movie/series and gaming (about +60%, -40% for music).
> ...


 
  HD800 is an incredible video game headphone. Lightweight, great soundstage, if you play music while gaming the detail of the HD800's will let you still hear footstepts even with your music at a fairly high volume. Idk about the HDVD800 however, might want to look into getting a V200 or Burson conductor.


----------



## Kyle 491

Both the HD595 and the HD598, while not being remarkable in SQ, are better overall than the SRH940, chiefly because they don't commit as many sonic flaws. They are both relatively neutral with a smooth treble with bass that doesn't take a nosedive off a cliff. Which is a lot more than I can say for the SRH940.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





kyle 491 said:


> Both the HD595 and the HD598, while not being remarkable in SQ, are better overall than the SRH940, chiefly because they don't commit as many sonic flaws. They are both relatively neutral with a smooth treble with bass that doesn't take a nosedive off a cliff. Which is a lot more than I can say for the SRH940.


 
  Oh come one, look at the number of times the hd595 is mentioned in the thread :
"Headphones you regretted buying the most".
  I've once counted , and it came near top  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  And few poster stating that the difference hyped between hd598 & hd595 is just bs.
  It won the price at being boring. Which can be a good thing , if you don't want to distracted while working.


----------



## BournePerfect

Can we leave the Shure discussion/shilling to a different thread perhaps?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## lightningfarron

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Can we leave the Shure discussion/shilling to a different thread perhaps??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 +1
  more hd800 discussion would be great


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Well comparing the hd800 to other headphones is not exactly off-topic. But I 'll leave it here.
   
  Here are the usual discussions:
  - hd800 is unquestionably better at  every genres.
  - the source XX  does wonders with the hd800. The hd800 is radically  better with it  (I'm not sorry about your wallet at all).
  - I'm so glad I  left the headphone XX , the hd800 is so much better !
   
  yep, I'll leave it here.


----------



## BournePerfect

Thanks!
   
  *reminds self that neither the HD595, HD598, SH940 are HD800s*
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Solude

Hehe... Head-Fi in 100 words or less


----------



## Eee Pee

^^^ Goes to swap HD 800 for HD 595 as game phones and turns on Gran Turismo 5...


----------



## PinkLed

You guys are comparing an Evo (hd595 or 598) and Corvett (sh940) to a Ferarri (hd800) right now. They may be fast but hows your handling, acceleration, fit and finish?
   
  At least this is not as bad as the guy who was compared the HD800s to some 20$ Koss pos. Everytime I put on my HD800s I think about that guy and laugh.


----------



## Kyle 491

Don't be snobby. I own both the hd595s and the hd800s and like to compare. The hd595s inoffensive sound signature almost makes me forget how lacking in transparency its mids are and how flat it presents its sound image. However, its coloured and more intimate mids can work in its favour in a few non-acoustic songs. And this is a can that can be bought for £50-60 vs the hd800s £1000. Really puts things into perspective.


----------



## PinkLed

Quote: 





kyle 491 said:


> Don't be snobby. I own both the hd595s and the hd800s and like to compare. The hd595s inoffensive sound signature almost makes me forget how lacking in transparency its mids are and how flat it presents its sound image. However, its coloured and more intimate mids can work in its favour in a few non-acoustic songs. And this is a can that can be bought for £50-60 vs the hd800s £1000. Really puts things into perspective.


 
  Sorry the right word was not compare. More like favor. There is a difference between justifying price and justifying quality. Now material wise these headphones may not be 1000 euro, but if you ever take apart a pair of HD800s or simply put your flashlight to it you can see the amount of research there must of been. Out of all my cans HD800s are the only ones that I felt justify the price however.


----------



## dallan

After four years of ownership, I just put my first chip in the paint.............


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dallan said:


> After four years of ownership, I just put my first chip in the paint.............


 
  ouch! id say you are not impressed. I have heard before that they chip easily - this is not good.


----------



## soundscape1

Received the HD 800 today. Very delightful. Pending burn-in, of course.


----------



## dallan

magiccabbage said:


> ouch! id say you are not impressed. I have heard before that they chip easily - this is not good.




It happens, and I don't sell much. The 800s are keepers. Some early on we're complaining about chipping and it took me four years to get my first, that's pretty good. They were hanging on a door on my desk and someone posted the door against the wall wedging it open with my lirttle trash an and one of the 800 cups was pushed against the wall all day. Top edge of the cup got a little chip is all.


----------



## varyV

Its not even that bad...take a silver oil based paint sharpie to it and any chips disappear. Can't tell the difference, unless you examine under a bright light.


----------



## jbarr1989

Just got my HD800s (like actually just 30 minutes ago in the mail) and I am amazed so far.  I can't recall ever being so impressed with a pair of headphones after an initial listen.  I certainly didn't expect this, after coming from a pair of LCD-2s and D7000s I expected them to sound a bit "thin".  Not the case at all, these may be just exactly what I'm looking for, finally.  Also my amp at the moment (Lyr) isn't exactly what most would call a good pairing for these, but I'm blown away by just how good these sound.  Really excited to spend some time with these!


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





jbarr1989 said:


> Just got my HD800s (like actually just 30 minutes ago in the mail) and I am amazed so far.  I can't recall ever being so impressed with a pair of headphones after an initial listen.  I certainly didn't expect this, after coming from a pair of LCD-2s and D7000s I expected them to sound a bit "thin".  Not the case at all, these may be just exactly what I'm looking for, finally.  Also my amp at the moment (Lyr) isn't exactly what most would call a good pairing for these, but I'm blown away by just how good these sound.  Really excited to spend some time with these!


 
  6Moons opinion was that the Lyr was an excellent pairing with the HD800s. The 800's don't sound thin with the Lyr, that's for sure.


----------



## MickeyVee

Congrats!  I'm running the HD800 with the Lyr and Amperex Orange globes and I'm quite happy with the combo. At this point, I have no immediate desire to upgrade. I know that I can do better but the pairing is really, really good.  Enjoy!
  Quote: 





jbarr1989 said:


> Just got my HD800s (like actually just 30 minutes ago in the mail) and I am amazed so far.  I can't recall ever being so impressed with a pair of headphones after an initial listen.  I certainly didn't expect this, after coming from a pair of LCD-2s and D7000s I expected them to sound a bit "thin".  Not the case at all, these may be just exactly what I'm looking for, finally.  Also my amp at the moment (Lyr) isn't exactly what most would call a good pairing for these, but I'm blown away by just how good these sound.  Really excited to spend some time with these!


----------



## RIQUE

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> Metal music is already muddy as it is from shoddy mastering/mixing. I wouldn't think adding more "mud" is going to help at all.


 
   
  Great point.  It makes no sense to discuss if HD800 sound good or not with metal music. Metal and the like e.i. acid metal, death metal call it what you want have way to much distortion and complexity to be used as music to judge a headphones quality.  Don´t get me wrong I love Rock but some heavy metal is just to heavy for me to pick up or listen to.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





rique said:


> Great point.  It makes no sense to discuss if HD800 sound good or not with metal music. Metal and the like e.i. acid metal, death metal call it what you want have way to much distortion and complexity to be used as music to judge a headphones quality.  Don´t get me wrong I love Rock but some heavy metal is just to heavy for me to pick up or listen to.


 
  you could get slated for saying that here. Some people will think your accusing them of bad taste or something like that but i think you have a point (- well kind of ). I love metal but don't i listen to that much any more, once the last of the trash metal bands died out i jumped train. In saying that i'm sure there are new metal bands out there with good production - Lamb of god and Opeth spring to mind.


----------



## BleaK

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> you could get slated for saying that here. Some people will think your accusing them of bad taste or something like that but i think you have a point (- well kind of ). I love metal but don't i listen to that much any more, once the last of the trash metal bands died out i jumped train. In saying that i'm sure there are new metal bands out there with good production - Lamb of god and Opeth spring to mind.


 

 Opeth's new recordaings sound stellar on a good headphone setup.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





bleak said:


> Opeth's new recordaings sound stellar on a good headphone setup.


 
  Yes indeed those guys know what they are doing. i know its not really and truely metal but the damnation album sounds particularly good, i would love to hear that on hd800. i just got the T1 today and that album sounds great on it.


----------



## mink70

So I've reached an impasse with the HD800 and I hope folks can weigh in. They are, at once, the most amazing headphone I've owned, and one of the most frustrating. They overwhelmed me when I first heard them at the headphone counter at J&R through my portable amp and iPod—the soundstaging, out-of-head thing in particular—so I bought a pair. But over the long run, I've found them difficult to kick back with and simply enjoy. They can have a slightly lit-up, even wiry timbre that I can't quite relax into. I'm not talking about excessive treble or brightness but rather what I hear as a slightly metallic tonality. 
   
  I've tried a bevy of amps and just ordered a balanced Cardas cable. Currently I'm auditioning Donald North's superb Sonett 2, based on his Stratus, and recently had a chance to take the HD800 to another Head-Fier's place (thanks ericfarrell85!) where I listened to them through a Decware CSP2+ and a Zana Deux. Both superb amps, in their respective ways. Neither, to my mind, succeeded entirely in making the HD800 a pleasurable and relaxing headphone. Honestly, the only amp I've heard come close was the easy-going, cheap but good Matrix M-Stage, by warming up the presentation, but I didn't think it was able to take full advantage of the HD800s resolving and imaging potential. And that's the conundrum—the Hd800 seems to demand an amp (and source) that's at once super-resolving and utterly laid back. And I'm not sure such a thing exists. With my HD650, I can relax and enjoy the music for hours, but I also know that they are simply not as good as the HD800. But when I put on the HD800, the enjoyment often proves elusive and I can't focus on the music. I'm beginning to fear that they may not be for me. Can anyone dissuade me?


----------



## Solude

Sadly that is because of its response.  You can EQ it out, get a lush tube amp or source or... get what is a better HD650, the LCD-2 or LCD-3.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





mink70 said:


> So I've reached an impasse with the HD800 and I hope folks can weigh in. They are, at once, the most amazing headphone I've owned, and one of the most frustrating. They overwhelmed me when I first heard them at the headphone counter at J&R through my portable amp and iPod—the soundstaging, out-of-head thing in particular—so I bought a pair. But over the long run, I've found them difficult to kick back with and simply enjoy. They can have a slightly lit-up, even wiry timbre that I can't quite relax into. I'm not talking about excessive treble or brightness but rather what I hear as a slightly metallic tonality.
> 
> I've tried a bevy of amps and just ordered a balanced Cardas cable. Currently I'm auditioning Donald North's superb Sonett 2, based on his Stratus, and recently had a chance to take the HD800 to another Head-Fier's place (thanks ericfarrell85!) where I listened to them through a Decware CSP2+ and a Zana Deux. Both superb amps, in their respective ways. Neither, to my mind, succeeded entirely in making the HD800 a pleasurable and relaxing headphone. Honestly, the only amp I've heard come close was the easy-going, cheap but good Matrix M-Stage, by warming up the presentation, but I didn't think it was able to take full advantage of the HD800s resolving and imaging potential. And that's the conundrum—the Hd800 seems to demand an amp (and source) that's at once super-resolving and utterly laid back. And I'm not sure such a thing exists. With my HD650, I can relax and enjoy the music for hours, but I also know that they are simply not as good as the HD800. But when I put on the HD800, the enjoyment often proves elusive and I can't focus on the music. I'm beginning to fear that they may not be for me. Can anyone dissuade me?


 
   
  I agree to a certain extent. With the HD800 source is extremely important and more so than other headphones I've owned. Many headphones the DAC doesn't matter as much as long as it is a good quality dac but with these I found a big difference (to me at least) with different dacs. I had the Anedio D1 as my dac which I thought was excellent but I think it gives the same kind of tonality as you were referring to. At that time I had the HE6 as well and my choice went to the HE6 most of the time. I found a Buffalo III dac and that changed everything for me. 
   
  I do agree that the HD800 is amazing but yet also so frustrating at the same time if you can't find the right rig for it.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





mink70 said:


> So I've reached an impasse with the HD800 and I hope folks can weigh in. They are, at once, the most amazing headphone I've owned, and one of the most frustrating.


 
   Yeah , took me a while to pinpoint what I found wrong with them. What a loss of time.
   
  Quote: 





> With my HD650, I can relax and enjoy the music for hours, but I also know that they are simply not as good as the HD800. But when I put on the HD800, the enjoyment often proves elusive and I can't focus on the music. I'm beginning to fear that they may not be for me. Can anyone dissuade me?


 
   
  The keyword on what you said is "focus". The hd800 has unusually wide stereo separation. Strictly speaking, "stereo separation", is the difference between left & right signal, and I'm thinking that having a cleaner sound contribute to that separation.
  Try to use some crossfeed.  Curiously, I  think that boosting the sub bass helps too (below 100 hz).
  Dsp can mess up the clarity of hd800, but it's  hard to keep everything.
   
  You can also change your listening habits, by avoiding music with too wide stereo separation, or just do not work while listening music at same time (it's easier to "focus", if you only listen to music) .  Or buy a mega expensive gear with proper crossfeed.
   
  In my opinion, people spend too much time (and money) in trying to make the hd800 sound right.
   
   
  Oh and regarding:
  Quote: 





> I'm not talking about excessive treble or brightness but rather what I hear as a slightly metallic tonality.


 
   
  Sibilance with particular recordings, that's my experience (myléne farmer ...).
  The treble can be pretty euphonic, try _"_thursday afternoon" by Brian Eno.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> you could get slated for saying that here. Some people will think your accusing them of bad taste or something like that but i think you have a point (- well kind of ). I love metal but don't i listen to that much any more, once the last of the trash metal bands died out i jumped train. In saying that i'm sure there are new metal bands out there with good production - Lamb of god and Opeth spring to mind.


 

 Some people believe that electronica isn't sufficiently qualitative to use for analytical listening, due to its lack of... reality.  IMHO, this is wrong.  I've even read not so veiled attacks on the whole genre in this thread. It has good and bad reproductions just like any other.  Admittedly most dance/trace is poorly produced.  But it would be a mistake to dismiss the greats like Eno, Lynch and Orbit because of this.
   
  Recently I've started using Boards of Canada's 'Dayvan Cowboy' as a staple in my listening tests. The first half of the track is almost pure distortion. But its beautiful, sharp, spacious and accurate generated distortion. Each individual pico note paints a needle in the tapestry of sound.  This is totally different from amplification distortion or driver distortion. That's a totally different animal and we can all agree its crap, I'm sure.  I feel generated distortion gives you an immediate sense of speed and attack and detail. Very revealing of what the whole chain can do. True, its only one aspect, but still a good one. If you mix up sourced distortion with distortion from equipment - your missing the bigger picture.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I feel generated distortion gives you an immediate sense of speed and attack and detail.


 
  Try the dsp "spl transient designer", and push the attack knob, simple as that.
  I don't think it's great to have it always on, but it manages to increase the attack.
   
  Quote: 





> If you mix up sourced distortion with distortion from equipment - your missing the bigger picture.


 
   
  You are assuming  your equipment is free from distortions.


----------



## BleaK

mink70 said:


> So I've reached an impasse with the HD800 and I hope folks can weigh in. They are, at once, the most amazing headphone I've owned, and one of the most frustrating. They overwhelmed me when I first heard them at the headphone counter at J&R through my portable amp and iPod—the soundstaging, out-of-head thing in particular—so I bought a pair. But over the long run, I've found them difficult to kick back with and simply enjoy. They can have a slightly lit-up, even wiry timbre that I can't quite relax into. I'm not talking about excessive treble or brightness but rather what I hear as a slightly metallic tonality.
> 
> I've tried a bevy of amps and just ordered a balanced Cardas cable. Currently I'm auditioning Donald North's superb Sonett 2, based on his Stratus, and recently had a chance to take the HD800 to another Head-Fier's place (thanks ericfarrell85!) where I listened to them through a Decware CSP2+ and a Zana Deux. Both superb amps, in their respective ways. Neither, to my mind, succeeded entirely in making the HD800 a pleasurable and relaxing headphone. Honestly, the only amp I've heard come close was the easy-going, cheap but good Matrix M-Stage, by warming up the presentation, but I didn't think it was able to take full advantage of the HD800s resolving and imaging potential. And that's the conundrum—the Hd800 seems to demand an amp (and source) that's at once super-resolving and utterly laid back. And I'm not sure such a thing exists. With my HD650, I can relax and enjoy the music for hours, but I also know that they are simply not as good as the HD800. But when I put on the HD800, the enjoyment often proves elusive and I can't focus on the music. I'm beginning to fear that they may not be for me. Can anyone dissuade me?



You can always try the anax mod posted over at inner fidelity, this might solve your problem.


----------



## PinkLed

One thing ive noticed with the HD800 over many other cans is that an equalizer is your best friend. Other cans ive had distort if you change the sound too much. Give it a nice \ and you should be good to go.


----------



## Solude

Nods if you use JRiver, I like this parametric equalizer...
   
  -6dB @ 7000Hz, Bandwidth 5.


----------



## preproman

Where did that LCD-3 come from?  SMH and face palm.....
   
  Why didn't you bring a 2A3 in the house?


----------



## Solude

Trying to stay away from tubes if I can.  That and the GS-X mk2 fills all my check boxes I need in an amp so... sources and cans.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





solude said:


> Trying to stay away from tubes if I can.  That and the GS-X mk2 fills all my check boxes I need in an amp so... sources and cans.


 
  From an old tube guy like me, I'm sitting pretty with my GS-X, like Regis, fills all of my check boxes too.


----------



## songmic

Hello guys. I have a confession to make... about my story with the HD800, and my journey as a headphile for many years.
   
  When I heard it for the first time several years ago, I couldn't believe it. Couldn't believe the fact that such a bad-sounding headphone costs nearly $1.5K. I much preferred HD600/650 to it, and couldn't understand its flagship status in the Sennheiser line of headphones or why it gets so much praise from Head-Fi'ers around the world. I tried coming back to the HD800 several times, using different setups, but to no avail. I guess it just wasn't right for me. Boring. Cold. Too analytical/clinical. These were the words that came to my mind whenever I thought of HD800. The HD800 even sounded worse than Beyerdynamic T1 to my ears.
   
  Afterwards, for the first time, I found the first high-end headphone that I really came to love: Audez'e LCD-2. I became a believer in planar magnetic headphones afterwards. I tried many high-end headphones from Hifiman too, but ultimately felt that I preferred the dark sound signature of the Audez'es by a favorable margin. To this day, the LCD-3 is the best orthodynamic headphone I've ever heard (I haven't heard the Abyss), and remains one of my most favorite headphones.
   
  But shortly after, I found a headphone that I liked even more than the LCD-3: Fostex TH900. Albeit a closed design, the wow factor of the TH900 was overwhelming. Compared to the LCD-3, it was better in so many ways, not to mention its gorgeous design, comfort, and isolation. The magical euphony of TH900, although hard to describe, presented me with a sense of euphoria and sheer fun that I could not hear in other headphones. Excluding TOTL stats, I felt that the TH900 was the perfect headphone for me, the best as a dynamic headphone can get. Achieving such a feat while being closed-back was indeed remarkable.
   
  Afterwards, I began looking for the right amp to drive my TH900. Possibly due to its low impedance and high efficiency, the TH900 was easily driven by most amps and not so picky about amplification, unlike the HD800 (favorably a tube OTL amp to take the edge off its treble glare and make it sound more lush and musical) or orthos (favorably an amp with a high power output to drive such power-hungry, demanding headphone). Ultimately, I found Eddie Current's ZDSE to be one of, if not the best amp to drive the TH900. The ZDSE is a very unique amp: while being OTL and design, due to its incredibly low output impedance it works superbly with not only high-impedance Senns but also low-impedance Audio-Technica, Grado, and Denon/Fostex. I told myself that the ZDSE/TH900 was the end-game setup for me, and decided to settle down.
   
  However, despite its less expensive price, I found many folks still preferring the HD800 to TH900. I was like, What? To me the TH900 has always been miles and miles better than the HD800 in almost every way I can think of (except for soundstage, which the TH900 is still very good at). When David Solomon ranked HD800 the best currently available dynamic headphone, while $2K TH900 was far down in the 20's - even lower than $300 HD600, can you believe that haha - I was dumbstruck. Why? What makes the HD800 so good that people over the years still claim it is the best dynamic headphone? Are my ears messed up?
   
  Then I met several Head-Fi'ers saying that they never liked the HD800 either, until they found the right amp to drive it. Hell, I tried a lot of amps with the HD800, and believe me, nothing worked. They said, have you tried out my Zana Deux? And the answer was no, since I ordered my ZDSE after I decided that the TH900 was the best headphone for me. The synergy of TH900 and ZDSE is heavenly. I didn't even give the HD800 a second thought, and it had never occurred to me that I'm going to listen to the HD800 again with my newly bought ZDSE. Well, they said, the ZDSE happens to be one of the best amps to drive the HD800. Come to think about it, the ZDSE is a tube OTL amp, although definitely not your average, typical OTL amp, and it was originally designed at a time when the best Sennheiser headphones were HD600/650, which are all high impedance. I had a feeling that the HD800 will sound better on the ZDSE than most other amps, but I didn't think that the HD800 could possibly outperform my TH900 on the same setup. Giving it the benefit of the doubt and possibly the last chance, I once again picked up a pair of HD800 to do a direct A/B comparison against my TH900 using the ZDSE.
   
  At first, my hunch wasn't wrong. The HD800 definitely sounded much better than how I remember it. Although its neutral sound signature was still there, it felt like a somewhat different headphone than the previous HD800's I've heard using amps of lesser quality. And yet, it didn't win me over the TH900. I had grown accustomed to the euphonic sound of the TH900 and liked it so much that the HD800 still felt lacking in life and soul in comparison.
   
  However... as I listened to both HD800 and TH900 for longer periods, I found myself strangely reaching out to the HD800 more and more. The TH900 is a much more fun and enjoyable headphone, no doubt. But gradually, I sought for something more than just fun and games that the TH900 endlessly provides. The precise imaging, the ability to distinguish different sources of sound with pinpoint accuracy. The magnificently wide and deep soundstage, which is further amplified by the ZDSE. The truth in sound... and one day, in a moment of sudden revelation, as the barriers of music crashed down around me, I finally realized why people prefer the HD800 to all other headphones. And I was deeply ashamed by how immature and naive I had been all this time. The HD800 with ZDSE was the paragon of what one would describe as sonic nirvana, possibly only bested by the best electrostatic systems out there.
   
  This doesn't mean I no longer like the TH900. In fact, I believe the TH900 is the best complimentary headphone to the HD800, as it still remains a very high-end headphone and makes up in a few areas where the HD800 is weak at, such as euphony, wow-factor and isolation. I felt the TH900 was a genre master headphone, but the HD800 can also be a genre master if you seek the truth in sound.
   
  To celebrate my enlightment and rebirth (?), I ordered an aftermarket cable for the HD800 from Japan, called iHP-35Hx (made by ADL/Furutech). It is a rather recent product so not many people seem to be aware of it. It uses cryo-treated OCC conductors and rhodium-plated carbon fiber connectors for both ends of the cable. If possible, I'll try to write a comparison review of it against the stock cable.
   
  At any rate, please allow me to join you guys in the holy league of HD800, the headphone that I had once hated, but now came to realize its true potential as the pinnacle of dynamic headphone engineering. I hope I'm not too late.
   
  P.S. I still think the Sennheiser Orpheus is waaay better than the HD800. Just look at me smiling like a baby in my avatar photo. I wish I could re-experience that pure eargasm someday.


----------



## BournePerfect

*I. TOLD. YOU. SO.*
   
  -Daniel


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> *I. TOLD. YOU. SO.*
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  I knew you were going to say that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I remember you selling your ZDSE to fund Eddie Current's uber amp... Leviathan or Kraken, was it? So, any updates?


----------



## BournePerfect

Finally paid for the transformers on the Levi. I won't imagine having the amp in hand for a few months yet though. Glad to see you've discovered the magic of the ZDSE/HD800 though...I miss that more than anything...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## preproman

From day one I much preferred the HD800 over the TH900 on the GS-X mkII


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Good to see a vote for ZDSE/HD800 pairing!  Also fantastic impression on the ZDSE/TH900.  Thanks for the reviews, *songmic*.  I'm looking to upgrade my amp to either EC ZDSE or BA and looking for some impressions on these amps driving HD800 and D7K (high and low impedances).  ZDSE's price doesn't hurt the wallet too much but the BA offers balanced input.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

@songmic,
  so basically you said  you didn't like the hd800 on every amp you tried, until you used the zdse.
  But perhaps:
  -  your taste has evolved
  - you have a different pair of hd800, that for whatever reason sound different
  - placebo finally work, because of the pressure of expectations.
   
  Anyways , you didn't  explain what sonic change you noticed with the zdse,
  and perhaps  you could compare again with other amps, just to be sure.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> @songmic,
> so basically you said  you didn't like the hd800 on every amp you tried, until you used the zdse.
> But perhaps:
> -  your taste has evolved
> ...


 
  Give it a rest already. The ZDSE is an astounding pairing with the HD800-in fact I never even LIKED the HD800 until my ZDSE came and enhanced it in every area. Soundstage, bass depth, impact, microdetails, microdynamics, brought the mids out, tamed the sibilance, on  and on and on...many other ZDSE/HD800 users can say the same-since they've actually owned the combo.
   
  If you're wondering-it sounded better in EVERY area than my DP-1, Dynalo, TTVJ Fet A, Auditor, Meier Rock, Concerto, m-Stage, my vintage amps, etc etc...by a landslide too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  -Daniel


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Soundstage, bass depth, impact, microdetails, microdynamics, brought the mids out, tamed the sibilance, on  and on and on..


 
  Well, looks like magic. Can't try it anyways.


----------



## palmfish

I am really curious for someone to visit an audio store with their HD800's and try them plugged into a Pioneer AVR - one of the Elite series home theater receivers. My experience with top-level amps is very limited, and admittedly my hearing isn't the best, but I have auditioned various amps and DACs (Grace Audio M901, Benchmark DAC1, Burson HA-160D, Woo WA6, WA7, Violectric V90, V200, V800, Peachtree Nova, and Schiit Asgard, Lyr) in my home head-to-head with my Pioneer and I just cannot hear any significant improvement with any dedicated headamp over the PIoneer. Im not saying it's a fantastic amp, only that it does no wrong and drives the HD800 well.
   
  Anyone willing or curious enough to cross check my observations?
   
  The beauty of the Pioneer is that I can plug all my analog and digital sources into it, custom name all the inputs to the specific device thats plugged in, and control everything with a remote. That, and it has tone controls and powers my speakers beautifully too. Im still ever curious about finding a way to take the Senns "to the next level" but I cant help but wonder is there is no such thing.


----------



## Solude

You might just not be sensitive to changes in the amp.  Step one, don't try to compare them.  In fact never swap between A and B trying to pick out differences.  Unless they are wildly different, you won't hear up.  The right way is to take notes describing what you hear on both and compare your notes.  Otherwise what you're really doing is comparing something to audio memory which is terrible.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





solude said:


> You might just not be sensitive to changes in the amp.  Step one, don't try to compare them.  In fact never swap between A and B trying to pick out differences.  Unless they are wildly different, you won't hear up.  The right way is to take notes describing what you hear on both and compare your notes.  Otherwise what you're really doing is comparing something to audio memory which is terrible.


 
  Well .... unexpected lesson.
  Don't compare to audio memory , but take notes.
  I'm lacking words. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I don't know what the hard  objectivists would answer...


----------



## Solude

It's not something I came up with.  It's a process that's been known to manufacturer's and reviewers for a while.  It's how they do iterative design.  From the lab measurements to the listening chair experience.


----------



## Mediahound

duplicate post.


----------



## Mediahound

My refurb from Crutchfield arrived today. The other box is totally mangled but the headphones inside I literally cannot tell them from brand new. 
   
  Quite happy. 
   
  I just can't decide which aftermarket cable to get now.


----------



## palmfish

solude said:


> You might just not be sensitive to changes in the amp.  Step one, don't try to compare them.  In fact never swap between A and B trying to pick out differences.  Unless they are wildly different, you won't hear up.  The right way is to take notes describing what you hear on both and compare your notes.  Otherwise what you're really doing is comparing something to audio memory which is terrible.




No offense, but this doesnt make sense to me. My Pioneer amp sounds very clean and neutral, so thats pretty much all I could think of to write notes about. If another amp is warmer, brighter, muddier, airier, etc. the only way I would be able to tell is if I match the output level and switch between them quickly. Memory and notes seem like they would be almost useless to me - unless as you say the differences are so large as to be wildly obvious (like the flabby muddy bass/mids that my now departed Carver Receiver caused).

For example, when I A/Bed the Grace Audio and Benchmark, i was able to discern that the Grace was ever so slightly warmer sounding. But the only way I was able to tell was after switching back and forth numerous times for several minutes using the same 10 seconds worth of music. Over about a 30 minute period using demo material I'm very familiar with, the difference became audible. And even after noting the difference, it was so small and so subtle that I know I could never have done it if more than a few moments were to pass between listens. Also, the difference was so small that neither came out as being "better" than the other, and if I waited a few days and someone played one of them blind, I would never be able to tell which one it was. I had the same experience comparing the new Bottlehead Mainline amp with the Benchmark DAC1.

Regardless, this isnt what im after. I started following the HDVD800 thread and have read several glowing reviews that indicate that this amp absolutely transforms the HD800, takes them to a whole new level, etc. and I have simply never experienced an upstream component that was able to do this. My humble Pioneer AVR is certainly so close to all the others I have tried that the differences are negligible and have not made me feel "upgrading" is necessary. So I guess what I want to know is whether the uber high end GS-X, Zana Deux, HDVD800, etc. that some say are the "ultimate" with the HD800 and dramatically improve performance are really significantly different/better than what I already have. So far, my HD800's simply sound like HD800's. There has been a lot of discussion about how "picky" the HD800 is with upstream gear but so far, in my experience, I have not found this to be the case at all. So what am I not hearing? Maybe Im just not a critical listener or maybe my hearing isnt good enough to discern the differences. 

Hence my curiosity about having someone else check out a Pioneer AVR to validate or debunk my opinion that these amps/DACs really only affect what we hear in a very minimal/minute way.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

@palmfish
  It's my understanding that tube amp, can exhibit more differences than regular solid state amp.  However "objectivists" attribute the fact that tube amp are more liked,  to euphonic distortions (and not "more" accuracy, despite some audiophile claims).
   
  Regarding your hearing : check what is the highest frequency you can hear.


----------



## palmfish

extrabigmehdi said:


> @palmfish
> It's my understanding that tube amp, can exhibit more differences than regular solid state amp.  However "objectivists" attribute the fact that tube amp are more liked,  to euphonic distortions (and not "more" accuracy, despite some audiophile claims).
> 
> Regarding your hearing : check what is the highest frequency you can hear.




IME, a tube amp can sound like anything the designer or tube roller wants it to sound like - just like a SS amp. Ive heard tube amps that sound warm, bright, lush, thin, and neutral just like SS amps. I have experienced the open euphonic sound you are referring to with tube amps too. Sometimes it enhances the music, sometimes its the audio version of wearing polarized sunglasses, ie: too crisp and artificial.

And yes, I suffer from both tinnitus and high frequency hearing loss. This is another reason why I am hoping for other opinions of the Pioneer AVRs.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Hence my curiosity about having someone else check out a Pioneer AVR to validate or debunk my opinion that these amps/DACs really only affect what we hear in a very minimal/minute way.


 
   
  I can tell you this much.  Your AVR is at best a buffer placed after the pre section, highly unlikely, and most likely an integrated headphone opamp.
   
  For me this is my short, key short, list for reviews...
   
  tonal balance, staging, focus, resolution, fullness, layering, separation, emotional engagement, dynamics, oddities
   
  If you think you can remember all that in a 10s loop going back and forth you're a better man than me


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> IME, a tube amp can sound like anything the designer or tube roller wants it to sound like - just like a SS amp.


 
  Well, the objectvist claim, is that a well designed amp/ source should always sound same.
  Unless a "flavor" is intentionally introduced, but then it's inaccurate.
   
  Quote: 





> And yes, I suffer from both tinnitus and high frequency hearing loss.


 
  High frequency hearing loss is normal when you get older , although I guess it depends of the level.
  Tinnitus ... I guess this one is more annoying.


----------



## palmfish

solude said:


> I can tell you this much.  Your AVR is at best a buffer placed after the pre section, highly unlikely, and most likely an integrated headphone opamp.
> 
> For me this is my short, key short, list for reviews...
> 
> ...




You use the term "opamp" like it's a dirty word. IMO, there's nothing wrong with operational amplifiers. They are simply the current state of the art and the logical progression of amplifier technology over the past few decades.

That does help, although in my experience, many of those things you list are difficult to perceive or articulate, and are affected by what you have eaten, your mood, your environment, time of day, moon phase, and other subtle factors beyond our control. Among them, staging, focus, resolution, layering, and emotional engagement strike me as the hardest to identify and define, and any notes I might make on a particular day would have little to no value a day, week, or month later someplace else listening to something else.

This has been my experience anyways...


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> That does help, although in my experience, many of those things you list are difficult to perceive or articulate, and are affected by what you have eaten, your mood, your environment, time of day, moon phase, and other subtle factors beyond our control.


 
   
  Which is why I do it in one sitting, no more than 3-5 songs before toggling over to the other gear.  And you have to level match by metre, not ear.
   
  Opamps are certainly better than before but when the product is packaged its a take it or leave it.


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> @songmic,
> so basically you said  you didn't like the hd800 on every amp you tried, until you used the zdse.
> But perhaps:
> -  your taste has evolved
> ...


 
   
  Actually, you are right. My taste has evolved, and it happened while I was keeping both TH900 and HD800 with my ZDSE for comparison. I never could listen to HD800 for a long time because it sounded harsh and lifeless, and the ZDSE was the first amp that made listening to HD800 bearable. With that I was able to keep the HD800 longer, and I eventually grew accustomed to its sound and started appreciating its marvelous performance in imaging, detail retrieval, etc.
   
  I'm not sure if there are large variations in sound among different units, the HD800 I have right now (which is fairly recently purchased) still sounds bad on most other amps.
   
  And I never felt what you meant by pressure of expectations, because this was the last shot I gave the HD800 and I honestly didn't expect much at first. If the HD800 had sounded bad even on the ZDSE, I would've never given it a second thought.
   
  The ZDSE does the following magic to my HD800:
  1) Took the edge off the harsh treble glare of HD800, but not over-smoothing it. The ZDSE is a tube OTL amp but it doesn't have that typical tubey sound, which can be roughly described as warm or mellow.
  2) Added a bit of color to the overly neutral HD800, giving it a sense of euphony (though not in the same level as that of TH900).
  3) Rich, glorious midrange.
  4) HD800 is known to have the widest soundstage among all headphones, but not the deepest. On the other hand, the ZDSE excels in soundstage, but particularly more in terms of depth than width. The ZDSE threw a massive soundstage onto the HD800, complementing its soundstage depth and providing the largest 3D soundstage I've heard in any headphone. I don't think even the best stat rigs can outperform the HD800/ZDSE in this area.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





songmic said:


> The ZDSE does the following magic to my HD800:  1) Took the edge off the harsh treble glare of HD800, but not over-smoothing it. The ZDSE is a tube OTL amp but it doesn't have that typical tubey sound, which can be roughly described as warm or mellow.
> 2) Added a bit of color to the overly neutral HD800, giving it a sense of euphony (though not in the same level as that of TH900).
> 3) Rich, glorious midrange.
> 4) HD800 is known to have the widest soundstage among all headphones, but not the deepest. On the other hand, the ZDSE excels in soundstage, but particularly more in terms of depth than width. The ZDSE threw a massive soundstage onto the HD800, complementing its soundstage depth and providing the largest 3D soundstage I've heard in any headphone. I don't think even the best stat rigs can outperform the HD800/ZDSE in this area.


 
  Interesting, seems you are happy. Also nice to see you are aware that there's some coloration.
   
  I've read the headfonia review for the zana deux , there's a lot of raving. Only one negative I  was able to find on the review:
  Quote: 





> While I don’t think that the Zana would be too ideal for the fast electronica music, I did listen to some Hotel Costes compliations, which is a slower house/lounge music.


 
  I  guess it wasn't the intent of mike to criticize, but he inadvertently told that the zana is not so good for fast music.
  This confirm a bit  my belief that tube sound has some common points with reverb..


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Interesting, seems you are happy. Also nice to see you are aware that there's some coloration.
> 
> I've read the headfonia review for the zana deux , there's a lot of raving. Only one negative I  was able to find on the review:
> I  guess it wasn't the intent of mike to criticize, but he inadvertently told that the zana is not so good for fast music.
> This confirm a bit  my belief that tube sound has some common points with reverb..


 
   
  I don't listen to much fast electronica music, so I guess it doesn't matter much to me. These days I mostly listen to music to chill, not to headbang.


----------



## longbowbbs

The HD800's love the Decware CSP2+ Single Ended Triode OTL Pre-amp. I have found it is even better when paired with the Decware Taboo MK III Single Ended Class A Pentode amp. Awesome combo!


----------



## ericfarrell85

Anyone heard the Liquid Gold with the HD800? I'll be gifting myself pretty soon and the choice of an SR009, ECBA or Liquid Gold is the most challenging purchase decision I've had to make in a while. 

I'm hearing mixed claims of the BA's efficacy with the HD800, with a member even suggesting that the Zana is a superior pairing. Love as I do the Zana on its own, it's not perfect. When I throw the Beta in there the extra body and bass thump/texture are all welcome additions. Perhaps there isn't anything substantially better? But with the HD800 the pursuit towards maximum performance seems always to be worth the expenditure.

The CSP2+ is indeed a wonderful amp. Perhaps not of the quality of a GSX or Zana, but damn near does everything very well. Whether it's with the HD650, HD800 and especially the T1 (not to mention how superbly it functions as pre)the CSP2+ is imo one of the best values in headfi.


----------



## longbowbbs

I would love to hear the ZDSE just to experience it vs my full on Decware pair. Similar price point....


----------



## songmic

I dare anyone to listen to James Newton Howard and Friends album with a properly amped HD800.
  Although not as good as CD quality, you can listen to the full album here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLnHgKotezg
   
  Yes, it's the same James Newton Howard who is known for his film scores, but this is one of his earlier experimental albums. I wouldn't say that this is one of his seminal works as a music composer, but as a live album, this is a truly reference-grade recording that will please even the most demanding audiophiles. It's not slow-paced, laid-back music at all, but the HD800 sounds excellent with it, retrieving every last bit of detail.


----------



## dleblanc343

I was listening to music an hour ago and wasn't feeling it in my soul. Paranoid me decided to clean my ears, and while doing so thought about making a post about it. For those interested in seriously cleaning your ears, check out my post! I don't mean to go OT, but I was listening to my Senns so... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/669080/magical-trick-on-making-music-sound-better-clean-your-ears-like-a-pro


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





songmic said:


> I dare anyone to listen to James Newton Howard and Friends album with a properly amped HD800.
> Although not as good as CD quality, you can listen to the full album here.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLnHgKotezg
> 
> Yes, it's the same James Newton Howard who is known for his film scores, but this is one of his earlier experimental albums. I wouldn't say that this is one of his seminal works as a music composer, but as a live album, this is a truly reference-grade recording that will please even the most demanding audiophiles. It's not slow-paced, laid-back music at all, but the HD800 sounds excellent with it, retrieving every last bit of detail.


 
   
  Sheffield Labs was THE audiophile label back in the 80's. MFSL and GRP were two other well known audiophile labels of that era. I used to own this album on vinyl - it was a great test/demo album.


----------



## Mediahound

If anyone is looking for a touch up pen for small nicks in their HD800s, I can verify these work very well:
   
  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009L1WE/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00009L1WE&linkCode=as2&tag=tt-20


----------



## BournePerfect

extrabigmehdi said:


> Interesting, seems you are happy. Also nice to see you are aware that there's some coloration.
> 
> I've read the headfonia review for the zana deux , there's a lot of raving. Only one negative I  was able to find on the review:
> I  guess it wasn't the intent of mike to criticize, but he inadvertently told that the zana is not so good for fast music.
> This confirm a bit  my belief that tube sound has some common points with reverb..




The ZDSE/HD800 is exceptionally fast imo. Like has been mentioned elsewhere: EC tube amps are like ss amps done right. Seemingly have the magic of tubes, without giving up the technicalities of ss amps. Bark at the Moon's crazy fast guitar into on the ZDSE didn't give up a lick of speed to my Dynalo if that's any indication. Trounced it in every other area though other than brittle piercing thinness. 

-Daniel


----------



## dallan

Yep, i rolled my eyes when i saw that post about the Zana Deux being slow.


----------



## dukeskd

Headfonia, that's all you need to know.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The HD800's love the Decware CSP2+ Single Ended Triode OTL Pre-amp. I have found it is even better when paired with the Decware Taboo MK III Single Ended Class A Pentode amp. Awesome combo!


 
  has anyone tried WA2/decware i wonder what that would be like? Could the decware be used as a preamp for the WA2 and vice versa?


----------



## Solude

My problem with the combo is for the money you could have gotten an EC ZD, 2A3, DNA Stratus, Woo WA5LE which may or may not be as good but my gut says they likely are.  Ie I'd rather have the GS-X mk2 than a GS-1 that runs into a B22


----------



## longbowbbs

heh heh... Audio Sex!


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> Headfonia, that's all you need to know.


 

 Mike share his subjective impressions , there's nothing wrong with it. Merely he omit some aspects in the reviews (it's obvious,  he is avoiding critics )  , but then he talk a bit more frankly in the comments.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Mike share his subjective impressions , there's nothing wrong with it. Merely he omit some aspects in the reviews (it's obvious,  he is avoiding critics )  , but then he talk a bit more frankly in the comments.


 

 I have found that I disagree with Mike on many things when reading his reviews. IMO, he's not a good reference.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> I have found that I disagree with Mike on many things when reading his reviews. IMO, he's not a good reference.


 

 It's a matter of affinity with the reviewer impressions.  At least he's not encouraging people to spend endlessly more , just like for instance, 6moons audio.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> *I. TOLD. YOU. SO.*
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
   
  reading all that makes me really want to get a ZDSE...maybe when i get the th-900 later this year, i'll look into it....


----------



## Frank I

Having a great day with CC Colletti on the WA5 and Oppo Dac  with the hd800.  This amp is outstanding with the hd800. Soundstage is pin point focused and the EML tubes are man oh man


----------



## BournePerfect

It's just funny cuz songmic was pming about the ZDSE/HD800 combo for quite a while, and it was kind of hard to explain why I loved it so much. Bottom line was it took me a while to grasp how amazing the ZDSE is-it's all those subtle nuances that work together to create...magic. It seems to do everything so perfectly that it was hard to tell where it's strengths lied, then you realize it has no glaring weaknesses and that it's strengths lie with musicality and emotion-but not at the expense of technicalities. The technicalities are there for sure-but the emotion and music are what the focus lies on, if that makes sense.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## quantx

How come my impressions of the HD800 with my SPL Phonitor are sometimes underwhelming,
  somewhat inconsistent ?
  With some records (LP's or CD's), music is there, rich and delineated. On some others, though,
  I have an impression of muffled tones, a veil blunting the piano notes, for instance.
  When compared with my HP system (Cochet PS1 + ALS1 + modded Klipschorn), I have total consistency and a lot of transparency
  and dynamics on one side, and much more "hi-fi" audiophile sound on the other, which I hate, because it's not what music is about.
  Does it mean I'm more a Grado HP1000 boy ? Is there a cure ?


----------



## kazsud

You have to remember that it's the recording most of the time.......


----------



## quantx

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> You have to remember that it's the recording most of the time.......


 
  I knew some distinguished headfier would say that.
  I'm talking about the same records on both set-up.
  Example : Rite of Spring/Ansermet/Suisse Romande/Decca. Outstanding recording in public.


----------



## paradoxper

Finally got my HD800 finished:


   
  Thanks to LFF and pwnm30rdi3 of ReferenceSounds
   
  Probably the first non ColorWare job, great alternative to those of us who like to pay for things to be a different color.


----------



## dleblanc343

paradoxper said:


> Finally got my HD800 finished:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Those are the nicest so far! I'll PM you about them, I'm curious of pricing and if it can be done for mine


----------



## LugBug1

Very nice Para, very tasteful. 
   
  Got thinking of this guy for some reason..

   
  So I think they should be called Para-troopers!!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Very nice Para, very tasteful.
> 
> Got thinking of this guy for some reason..
> 
> ...


 
  That was the inspiration, indeed. Haha. Sounds good to me!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Well the wait paid off, digging the new look Para


----------



## preproman

Glad to see Andrew come through....  Nice..


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Glad to see Andrew come through....  Nice..


 
  Dude sucks at communicating badly, but his final work is worth it. He's grown a lot since doing your Paradox.


----------



## preproman

Yeah you ain't lying...   He also has Greeds pair.  Same thing going on with him as well.  I told him,  The work will be great..


----------



## songmic

Guys, I'm curious about this so-called Anaxilus mod. I realize it's been a long time since it was first mentioned, but I recently stumbled upon it. I heard there are more than one version of this mod, namely Anax 1.0, 2.0, and so on...
   
  1. Does Anax 3.0 version exist? If so, is this the latest version of the Anaxilus mod series?
   
  2. What is the latest version of the Anax mod, and where can I go to learn more about it? I believe the article at InnerFidelity is about the first version of the Anax mod.
   
  3. Unforunately, I cannot contact Anaxilus directly since he's banned for some reason I don't know. The problem is, I am a terrible DYI'er and is afraid that I may screw up this mod if I do it on my own. Is there any aftermarket party (by Anaxilus himself or others who are experienced with it) where I can buy the completed mod foams, so that I don't have to go through the trouble of cutting them up myself?


----------



## esn89

1. I don't think there is a 3.0   I just used the one shown on the InnerFidelity website:  http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod
   
  2. The one I referred to should be the latest. 
   
  3.  It is very hard to screw up, if you are worried about cutting up the fabric and screwing that up, well, you can just buy as much as you need to use until you get it spot on.  I am sure there isn't anyone who has the complete mod foams.  I mean, I could make them for you, but it is much cheaper if you made your own (I'd have to go to Michaels and buy materials again).
  If it is the headphones themselves you are worried about damaging, don't be.  I was a bit apprehensive first, but the HD800 are built really, really well (if you don't take in the account of the paint chips).  You pretty much pull the mesh-like pads out, stick your completed mod part in there, and because it is sticky you just kinda leave it there and put the mesh back in.
   
  If you are worried about leaving sticky-residue in there (kinda like peeling off a barcode and the sticker just ****s itself all over the box) stick your foam on a table, remove, stick it, remove, stick it, remove until it isn't that sticky and place it in.  It did not leave any residue for me, so even if you dont like it you could yank it out.
   
  Happy cutting.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Guys, I'm curious about this so-called Anaxilus mod. I realize it's been a long time since it was first mentioned, but I recently stumbled upon it. I heard there are more than one version of this mod, namely Anax 1.0, 2.0, and so on...
> 
> 1. Does Anax 3.0 version exist? If so, is this the latest version of the Anaxilus mod series?
> 
> ...


 
  You might want to check out the Pirates... they have their own site and Anax pretty much lives there, and there is a dedicated thread for the latest/greatest Anax mod. I believe there is a InnerFidelity article about Pirates if you're confused about what I'm saying.


----------



## Solude

Or just EQ it out. 5 seconds of work and the treble peak is gone, easy to remove as well


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





solude said:


> Or just EQ it out. 5 seconds of work and the treble peak is gone, easy to remove as well


 
  Exactly. 
   
  why pull very expensive headphones apart  They are designed to be as linear as poss, so whether you add damping or use an equalizer... Same difference.


----------



## ValentinHogea

lugbug1 said:


> Exactly.
> 
> why pull very expensive headphones apart  They are designed to be as linear as poss, so whether you add damping or use an equalizer... Same difference.



 
 The difference would be that in one of the cases you actually remove resonances in the undampened chamber and actually even out the frequency response and in the other case you lower the SPL of a certain frequency but it still resonates. Don't subscribe to false knowledge. /V


----------



## ValentinHogea

I would like to add that the intro-post has been edited by mods and they do not condone discussing modifications by a banned member och the websites that they take part of. Just a heads up.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





valentinhogea said:


> The difference would be that in one of the cases you actually remove resonances in the undampened chamber and actually even out the frequency response and in the other case you lower the SPL of a certain frequency but it still resonates.Don't subscribe to false knowledge./V


 
  Thank you for that  To resonate or not to resonate... That is the question..
   
  and in my book there's no such thing as false knowledge my friend. 
   
(just for the record, I'm well aware not to discuss banned members or their mods, I'm talking about mods in general on high end hp's)


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





valentinhogea said:


> The difference would be that in one of the cases you actually remove resonances in the undampened chamber and actually even out the frequency response and in the other case you lower the SPL of a certain frequency but it still resonates.Don't subscribe to false knowledge./V


 
   
  Semantics.  A resonance is a node that boosts a frequency band.  You can diffuse it, the mod, or EQ it.  One only affects the node, the EQ, the other changes the existing wave path.  Pick your poison.  More importantly the mod drops the peak by a fixed ~2dB.  EQ can completely cancel it out.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





solude said:


> Semantics.  A resonance is a node that boosts a frequency band.  You can diffuse it, the mod, or EQ it.


 
  There are measurements that show the the CSD  graph are improved with annax mod, so it's more than a frequency change (I  guess it means speed is improved, in the sense of faster decay, on the treble region).
   
  Unfortunately  this mod doesn't look easy, with no creatology stuff sold where I  live. And I  do no wish to remove the dust cover.
  I  wish I  could understand how the mod works, so I  could do something more basic.


----------



## Solude

Going from 1ms, which is world class good, to just under 1ms is meaningless. Just as likely to occur if the sound is dropped. Ie lower dB takes less time to settle because less energy is present.


----------



## esn89

what is this pirates thing, can you show me?


----------



## Solude

Dumbed down the mod works by dispersing what would be a flat reflection. The new mod does it in a more controlled way, think egg carton type surface.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





esn89 said:


> what is this pirates thing, can you show me?


 
  Pirates are not to be trusted. They'll steal anything... Even treble resonance!!


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





esn89 said:


> what is this pirates thing, can you show me?


 
   
  Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Pirates are not to be trusted. They'll steal anything... Even treble resonance!!


 
  LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Tip: try googling Pirate and Innerfidelity.


----------



## LugBug1

Hah, just have. Good read


----------



## negura

Quote: 





solude said:


> Semantics.  A resonance is a node that boosts a frequency band.  You can diffuse it, the mod, or EQ it.  One only affects the node, the EQ, the other changes the existing wave path.  Pick your poison.  More importantly the mod drops the peak by a fixed ~2dB.  EQ can completely cancel it out.


 
   
  My 2c:
  The mod only affects that one headphone. When using EQ, you're bound to end up wondering why another pair of headphones suddenly sounds crap. Yes, it happened.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Currently , I'm using two eq , one to boost the sub bass (psp neon hr) in linear mode, and an other  to modify mids & treble (fab filter pro q) in minimum phase.
  This is the solution I  found to preserve a tight bass, and make the pre-echo less annoying.
  Eh, result of my experiments with dsp...


----------



## Pazz

So I just demoed these today for the first time. First of all, I was randomly walking through a plaza in harvard square, when suddenly I saw a sign saying hi-fi on it, and I immediately went to check it out. I wasn't expecting much, but when I went in, the characteristic aesthetics of the HD800 caught my eye. I asked if I could try them out, and the shop keepers were kind enough to hook it up for me, although I really have no idea what the rig they used was composed of. Anyway, they do seem a bit smaller in person than when seen on online images, and it really didn't beat my ad900x in terms of comfort. Build quality at first sight was as expected.
   
  As for the sound, I only listened for 20 minutes before needing to hurry off to class. Also, the only other high end headphone that I have heard was the HE400, which really impressed me, and the AD900x which was the best I could afford. Other than those, I haven't had any other experience with high end offerings, so my impressions of the HD800 may be skewed. 
   
  The thing that I took note of right off the bat, was, of course, the soundstage and imaging. The instrument separation was also incredible. Compared to the AD900x (I was actually able to compare them on the spot because I had brought my AD900x with me in my backpack), the HD800 really sounded a lot more clear and transparent, while also being more detailed. The piano that I heard was placed very clearly and the position of it was much more defined. Another thing that amazed me was how I was able to hear slight reverberation of the vocals that were inaudible on the AD900x, which attests to the amount of detail the HD800 offers. The HD800 really makes the ad900x sound thick and muddled in comparison. This was all expected though, as the ad900x is in a whole different price range. Nonetheless, my short experience with the HD800 was quite enlightening, and although I wasn't as blown away as I was when I first heard the HE400, I was very impressed. The HD800 had an overall very immersive feel to it.
   
  Another thing, they said that they had the HD800 on sale for $1100, which is $400 less than the current amazon price. I'm not sure whether that's a good price for it, but even if it is, I still wouldn't be able to afford it. Perhaps I'll need to sell my soul for it... or not.


----------



## mink70

I posted this on the new DNA Sonett 2 thread, but thought it might also be relevant here:
   
"I think I received the Sonett 2 after Toads was done with it, so I'll share some impressions. Please let me know if you have questions.
  
 In the meantime, I'll say that it's the best headphone amp I've spent time with. It's not in the slightest bit tubey sounding—the S2 is fast, extended, dynamic and highly resolving, the way I like it. And it retains the lit-from-within quality of good tube circuits as well as the beguiling lucidity of transformer-coupled single-ended triode amps. It's also powerful sounding, driving the Senn HD800 and HD650 with unremitting control. I hope to borrow the LCD-2 this week to try with it as well. 
  
 Part of my mission with the Sonett 2 was to figure out a way to tame the HD800—to make listening to it pleasant and relaxing rather than a cringe-fest. I'm happy to say it's come a long way. First, I replaced the stock cable with a Cardas cable with 4-pin balanced connector. Balanced drive on the S2 added bass, richness, a slightly wider soundstage and, of course, gain. (I cannot swear how much of the difference was due to the cable itself and how much to XLR drive, but the new cable helped a lot.) Replacing the JJ rectifier tube with a Mullard was another step in that direction—more richness, color and bass. Swapping out interconnects produced very audible differences as well, and the amp highlighted the distinctions between Cardas, Van den Hul, Analysis Plus and Wireworld. The S2 also allowed me hear the sound of different tubes in the buffer section of the DAC I was using, the MHDT Havana. Maybe the most unexpected gain came from lifting the amp off the shelf and letting it sit on 3 Vibrapods—the headstage got much bigger and more of the HD800s wiry tendencies receded. Now, with the latest version of Audirvana Plus providing an almost electron-microscope view of detail, the HD800 floats a huge stage with almost no hardness or brightness apparent. Far less fatigue. It's the sonic equivalent of being at a planetarium for one of those weed-scented rock shows—everything floats around the head. I'm psyched. 
  
 Experienced Head-Fiers sometimes refer to the HD650's ability to "scale," and now I know what they mean. It sounds insane with the Sonett 2, passing much more detail and ambience than I though the headphone was capable of. Really silly good. If not for the HD800, this combo would make me happy.
  
 I appreciated the impedance and gain switches on the amp, but I didn't use them much. I preferred the impedance on low and gain on normal. Setting impedance on high softened the sound and added a layer of mist and bloom, which I didn't care for.
  
 I've never heard the original Sonett and listened to the Stratus briefly at a meet, so I can't make meaningful comparisons to those amps. I can say that my Bottlehead Crack, a great little amp, isn't even in the same parking lot as the Sonett 2, which is better in every imaginable way. Same goes for the Matrix M-Stage, but more so. I heard the Bryston amp recently with my HD800 and frankly found it a little boring. While hosting the Sonett 2, I was happy to drop in on a fellow Head-Fier here in Brooklyn and listen to his Decware CSP2+ and EC Zana Deux through my HD800. I was unfamiliar with his (very expensive) DAC and cabling, so take these impressions with a chunk of salt. I did notice that the CSP2+ sounded more traditionally tubey than the Sonett 2, with a more prominent upper bass, more forgiving treble and less apparent power through the Senns. I can understand why the Decware amp is such a popular pairing with the Senn, but I preferred the bigger, clearer sound of the Sonett 2. The Zana sounded powerful, detailed and transparent, much like the S2, but to my ears added a bit of high-frequency etch that I didn't think flattered the already treble-prone Senn. It was also hot as a furnace. 
  
 I'm pretty thrilled with Sonett 2. I can't hear any character to it's sound that could be described as a flavor. It' strikes me as pure, transparent, and neutral, but not in the least boring or polite. It's colorful and rich. It has plenty of power and control with the phones I've tried it with. I can, as they say, hear things I've never heard before. It doesn't make me want to do something else after listening for 15 minutes. It makes the HD800 into the most revealing transducer I've heard—and, with the right attention to ancillaries, also makes it fun, something I wasn't sure was possible. It's not too big. I really like the way it looks, and that it's blue. And I can't think of another amp under $2K I'd rather listen to (though admittedly I haven't heard the EC Super 7). 
  
 Thank you, Donald North, for the opportunity to live with your new amplifier for a while. It's terrific."


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





pazz said:


> The thing that I took note of right off the bat, was, of course, the soundstage and imaging. The instrument separation was also incredible. Compared to the AD900x (I was actually able to compare them on the spot because I had brought my AD900x with me in my backpack), the HD800 really sounded a lot more clear and transparent, while also being more detailed. The piano that I heard was placed very clearly and the position of it was much more defined. Another thing that amazed me was how I was able to hear slight reverberation of the vocals that were inaudible on the AD900x, which attests to the amount of detail the HD800 offers. The HD800 really makes the ad900x sound thick and muddled in comparison. This was all expected though, as the ad900x is in a whole different price range. Nonetheless, my short experience with the HD800 was quite enlightening, and although I wasn't as blown away as I was when I first heard the HE400, I was very impressed. The HD800 had an overall very immersive feel to it.
> 
> Another thing, they said that they had the HD800 on sale for $1100, which is $400 less than the current amazon price. I'm not sure whether that's a good price for it, but even if it is, I still wouldn't be able to afford it. Perhaps I'll need to sell my soul for it... or not.


 
  Piano ? Really ? I'm wondering if the shops don't have some instructions to only demo with classical. stuff.
  There's also an official demo sennheiser cd  with mostly jazz/ classical.
  Just ask for a new demo with techno,  metal, I'd think you'd have less regrets for not having these hd800. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I've personally insisted for a demo with techno before buying them,  and it was  less impressive, than with the first classical cd they played.
  It was at this point hesitating to get them.


----------



## palmfish

Because a transducers ability to faithfully recreate a piano or violin is irrelevent. Techno is the real test of a headphone... :rolleyes:


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Because a transducers ability to faithfully recreate a piano or violin is irrelevent. Techno is the real test of a headphone...


 
   
  Well, to test a headphone , you should try different genre. It's well known that classical is the genre were the hd800 shine the best, you want to test them with other genre to get a better idea of their performance.
  Just like the monster beats are marketed for "hip hop", they won't demo them with classical music for sure.


----------



## palmfish

Except I know what a concert piano sounds like in real life. What does a drum machine sound like in nature?

For me, if a headphone can make a violin sound real (attack, tone, decay, etc.) then it can do any genre well. I have no baseline to judge a headphone based on how synthesized tones sound.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote:  





> I have no baseline to judge a headphone based on how synthesized tones sound.


 
  Richness of music , excitement, level of details, variations.  Is it just interesting to listen, with the hd800, to  that kind of music, without entering  in the technicalities  ?


----------



## palmfish

Thats great. Whatever works for you


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> For me, if a headphone can make a violin sound real (attack, tone, decay, etc.) then it can do any genre well.


 
   
  Violin only exists in the mid range.  It's not a test of bass or treble.


----------



## palmfish

solude said:


> It's not a test of bass or treble.




Obviously. I didnt mean to infer that I think a violin recording is all that is needed to evaluate the entire range of headphone performance.

Actually, I mentioned the violin because it is a particularly difficult instrument for a transducer to reproduce naturally.


----------



## bearFNF

Better yet, bring what you normally listen to and have them play that.  That's the best way to see if you like them.  Having them play a genre 'just because' means nothing (to me) if its not what you will be listening to the majority of your time.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Better yet, bring what you normally listen to and have them play that.  That's the best way to see if you like them.  Having them play a genre 'just because' means nothing (to me) if its not what you will be listening to the majority of your time.


 
  Yup that makes sense to me. But I suppose having your existing headphones with you that you are very familiar with would also make sense. 
   
  Just my two sense


----------



## Cante Ista

WHile I prefer HE6 on Techno, HD800 is not far behind. Hooked up to my Sonett or F3 it has plenty of bass weight. Besides, good techno music will have amazing layering of sounds that lays out awesome complex sonic tapestry. HD800 is great at show you that tapestry clearly!
   
  But ofcourse classical is the best to assess tonality. Much of rock music is not that great to that just like EDM or IDM. my 2 cents.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Yup that makes sense to me. But I suppose having your existing headphones with you that you are very familiar with would also make sense.
> 
> Just my two sense


 
  Certainly, for comparisons sake that makes sense, but it still comes down to what you hear in the phones you are testing.  Playing the test phones on your own rig would be best.


----------



## MickeyVee

The HD800 don't blow you away.. they grow on you.  They just keep on getting better and better.  I found that a headphones that blew me away initially ended up grating on me in the long term. For me, HE400, HD650 are case in point.  I've heard the HD800 a number of times over the years and really didn't like them much until I owned many others.  Only then could I appreciate them. Also, they are the only headphones that I find non-fatiguing over longer listening sessions.
   
  $1100 is an awesome price!
  Quote: 





pazz said:


> Nonetheless, my short experience with the HD800 was quite enlightening, and although I wasn't as blown away as I was when I first heard the HE400, I was very impressed. The HD800 had an overall very immersive feel to it.
> 
> Another thing, they said that they had the HD800 on sale for $1100, which is $400 less than the current amazon price. I'm not sure whether that's a good price for it, but even if it is, I still wouldn't be able to afford it. Perhaps I'll need to sell my soul for it... or not.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Certainly, for comparisons sake that makes sense, but it still comes down to what you hear in the phones you are testing.  Playing the test phones on your own rig would be best.


 
  Agreed. The ideal is taking the phones home and testing on your own rig with your fave music. Because even if you take your fave tester cd to the store, you would still be playing it on equipment that you aren't familiar with.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> The HD800 don't blow you away.. they grow on you.  They just keep on getting better and better.  I found that a headphones that blew me away initially ended up grating on me in the long term. For me, HE400, HD650 are case in point.  I've heard the HD800 a number of times over the years and really didn't like them much until I owned many others.  Only then could I appreciate them. Also, *they are the only headphones that I find non-fatiguing over longer listening sessions.*
> 
> $1100 is an awesome price!


 
  Thats something that you don't read very often on here. But I agree. Once you find an amp that feeds them what they want, they are so linear that nothing irritates you over long periods unless you are listening to annoying music or harsh recordings. Other headphones that are labelled as 'less fatiguing' I'm now finding were more annoying over long periods than the HD800's. The HE500's with their hump and odd treble peaks... LCD2's.. Boom boom boom.. headache styley  ; The only other headphone that is as none fatiguing over long listening sessions imo is of course the 650's. But the chances of falling asleep are much higher. 
   
  and of course there is the comfort factor.
   
  $1100 ! you'd be lucky to get a 2 year old 2nd hand pair for that price. Snap em up and don't look back!


----------



## FlySweep

I feel quite lucky to have gotten my NIB HD800 for $900 (from a friend of a friend in the audio biz).
   

   
  That being said.. $1100 is a great price for them and I'd gladly pay that if I had to.
   
  ..and, I too find the HD800 quite non-fatiguing (both from a comfort and acoustic standpoint) over long term listening sessions.  Your upstream gear matters here.. but match it well and I feel like I can listen to them forever.. even with "less than ideally" recorded music.


----------



## Solude

I love my HD800 but linear, not so much.  The treble peak is the treble peak.  On some songs, complete non issue because nothing is going on in that range, on others it's bad.  Easiest way to find it... play some pink noise.  Can't miss it.  But the HD800 does things no other headphone does, soundstage, unapologetic resolution and detail.


----------



## LugBug1

Nothing is perfect, but is there another headphone more linear without getting into top Stax territory?


----------



## Frank I

Got a PM from coloware they are repainting hD800 for 299.00 if anyone is interested


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Cante Ista* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Besides, good techno music will have amazing layering of sounds that lays out awesome complex sonic tapestry. HD800 is great at show you that tapestry clearly!


 
  Any techno album you particularly enjoyed with the hd800 ?
  So far I enjoyed the album Richie Hawtin -  DE9.Transitions on the HD800,  minimal techno if you like to pay attention to little details.
  But I  like also hard hitting bass to insane levels,  and for this I prefer  Iems.
   
*@MickeyVee* 


  Quote: 





> They are the only headphones that I find non-fatiguing over longer listening sessions.


 
  A bit surprising.
   
  By the way, how do you find the sibilance on this track with the hd800 ?
  It's in french, but the sssss are largely resonating.
   




   

  Quote:


bearfnf said:


> Better yet, bring what you normally listen to and have them play that.  That's the best way to see if you like them.  Having them play a genre 'just because' means nothing (to me) if its not what you will be listening to the majority of your time.


 
  Well, if a headphone perform particularly well for a genre , you might become more curious for that genre.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Got a PM from coloware they are repainting hD800 for 299.00 if anyone is interested


 
  Thanks Frank. Seems like a good business move as not many people are going to re-buy the headphones just for the paint job.


----------



## Mambosenior

frank i said:


> Got a PM from coloware they are repainting hD800 for 299.00 if anyone is interested




Very good news! Thank you.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Nothing is perfect, but is there another headphone more linear without getting into top Stax territory?


 
   
  Every ortho comes to mind   Even the 'lesser' ones tend to be flat from 20-1KHz.  Only taking linear performance into account.  I zero out that treble shelf and boom linear AND all the other things we love the HD800 for stick around.  Win win.


----------



## MickeyVee

Not surprising after owning the HD700 for just over a year  No fatigue at all for me. Everything else from the HD600, HD650, HD700, HE500 caused some discomfort over long sessions.. some for different reasons. The overall tonal balance of the HD800 works for me, an least in the setup I have.
   
  Sorry.. can't play this video in Canada.. go figure.
  Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> *@MickeyVee*
> 
> 
> A bit surprising.
> ...


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Sorry.. can't play this video in Canada.. go figure.


 






, I hate these copyright restrictions. It's easier to get illegally the damn thing, than just view the video.
  Track "Appelle Mon Numéro" from artist "Mylène Farmer" , album "point de souture".
  Maybe this link would work (not as good as the official vevo):
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am8Y4zK942g


----------



## MickeyVee

Yup, a whole album of that would drive me nuts. It's the recording, not the HD800. Also tried it with my M100's which have noticeable top end roll off and even heard it on them. It's too bad that poor engineering ruins a good song.  Happens all the time.
  Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> , I hate these copyright restrictions. It's easier to get illegally the damn thing, than just view the video.
> Track "Appelle Mon Numéro" from artist "Mylène Farmer" , album "point de souture".
> Maybe this link would work (not as good as the official vevo):
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am8Y4zK942g


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Yup, a whole album of that would drive me nuts. It's the recording, not the HD800. Also tried it with my M100's which have noticeable top end roll off and even heard it on them. It's too bad that poor engineering ruins a good song.  Happens all the time.


 

 I think there's sibilance on the recording , but the hd800 makes it more obvious.
  Anyways, I  love  this artist, so this is the hd800 fault.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





solude said:


> Every ortho comes to mind   Even the 'lesser' ones tend to be flat from 20-1KHz.  Only taking linear performance into account.  I zero out that treble shelf and boom linear AND all the other things we love the HD800 for stick around.  Win win.


 
  I agree that the LCD2's are linear hp's. but from the mids onwards no.
   
  You see when I look at that graph, I see one below linearity and one above in the treble. And in fact the HD800 is more focused on the neutral, apart from that obvious peak. Where as the LCD has a steady slope down from the mids. The dip around 3-4 is predictable because humans are very sensitive to this area and we actually have a natural dip in our hearing at this range. That's why hp's that are flat or emphasized at this point always cause us problems and the LCD2's are no exception. Though the K701's instantly spring to mind with more severity. The Senns also start dipping in the bass just on the mark of what we can hear, where as the LCD2 just keep going.. No need.
   
  Its an argument that can't be proven on paper though my friend. Probably best to ask a professional studio producer which one they would use to master a recording of Beethoven's symphonies... Me thinks me knows which one they would choose


----------



## Solude

Not saying the LCD-2 is neutral just pointing out that the HD800 isn't either.  Neither would make great mixing cans since one would give you a light mix and the other a dark one.  HD800 is great at finding errors though, LCD-2 not so much.


----------



## Pazz

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> The HD800 don't blow you away.. they grow on you.  They just keep on getting better and better.  I found that a headphones that blew me away initially ended up grating on me in the long term. For me, HE400, HD650 are case in point.  I've heard the HD800 a number of times over the years and really didn't like them much until I owned many others.  Only then could I appreciate them. Also, they are the only headphones that I find non-fatiguing over longer listening sessions.
> 
> $1100 is an awesome price!


 
   
  I have to agree that the 20 minutes or so that I got to listen to them was certainly not enough to give good judgement, which is why I said my impressions were probably skewed. Anyway, I really do think any headphone, IEM, or speaker, given time, will "grow" on you. It happened with my ad900x, vc02, and to an extent the m31p that I got. While quickly switching between them, the flaws in the lower end ones were apparent, but it becomes less noticeable as you listen to them more and more. It's just a thing our minds do, like in that one experiment where people's views were turned upside down, and their brains somehow turned it back over after a given amount of time. Of course, there are less subtle details that even our brains can't mask like drastic changes in fq response. 
   
  I really want to go back to that store now to demo again, once I have more time. Also, I will be (even more) prepared the next time (by bringing my own music and test tracks), as originally it only caught my sight by chance...


----------



## extrabigmehdi

So here is hopefully my last eq attempt.
  This was adjusted by ear, rather than relying on some measurements found on the net.
  And below, explanations of the parts of curve.
   
   

   
  Boost in 1300 - 2500 hz region: put vocals more forward , make them more euphonic
 Large drop after 2500 hz : reduce sibilance
 Cavity after 10 khz: treble is reduced, more relaxing
 Below 150 hz: boosting sub bass
   
  With this eq, the recording "Point de suture" from Mylene Farmer sounds much less sibilant, and more euphonic .
  Works with other stuff too.
   
  It's not so easy to eq the hd800, because you mess up either  the clean sound or tightness of bass.
  I tried to preserve both ( clean sound & tight bass) , by adopting a solution , that combine minimum phase  & linear phase eq-ing.


----------



## palmfish

Cheaper ti sell the HD800 and buy LCD-2.


----------



## silversurfer616

Also,hardware EQ works better for the HD800...as compared to software EQ.


----------



## dleblanc343

palmfish said:


> Cheaper ti sell the HD800 and buy LCD-2.



Definitely not worth the downgrade for the majority, unfortunately.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> Definitely not worth the downgrade for the majority, unfortunately.


 

 Agreed.
   
  Its the clarity and spaciousness and uncolored balanced sound that grabbed me. No other headphone does it like the HD800.


----------



## MomijiTMO

Hehe it's one of the reasons I kept the HD800 over it.


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *palmfish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ..Its the *clarity and spaciousness and uncolored balanced sound* that grabbed me. No other headphone does it like the HD800.


 
   
  Sennheiser-made, "crack cocaine." It's so addictive.


----------



## muzic4life

for the whole life i can only dreaming to get freely-crazy with all my favorite rock band...but tonight..i would confess my self...very thanks to Sennheiser for their HD800...making me being there under-grounded with all my favorite rock band and get so crazily satisfied..."NEVER say u enjoy your rock music until u plugging HD800 on your head ! Cheers my frenz !


----------



## hekeli

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> Also,hardware EQ works better for the HD800...as compared to software EQ.


 
   
  Can you provide a comparison for say 10 hardware and software EQ's? I'm sure you have tried them all with intimate knowledge on their usage.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





hekeli said:


> Can you provide a comparison for say 10 hardware and software EQ's? I'm sure you have tried them all with intimate knowledge on their usage.


 
  I believe that most known hardware eq, has been more or less faithfully imitated with softwares solution. I  liked the eq , spl passeq (that is supposed to reproduce faithfully the hardware).
  There's a head-fier praising how good the hd800 sounds with spl passeq here:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/557013/my-hd800-never-sounded-this-good
  The setting suggested was too much bass for me.
   
  Analog eq, are kind of minimum phase eq, with I guess some pleasing distortions.
  There are also some predefined frequency positions, that might help to reach easily pleasing results.


----------



## Solude

JRiver... Parametric EQ... done.


----------



## silversurfer616

hekeli said:


> Can you provide a comparison for say 10 hardware and software EQ's? I'm sure you have tried them all with intimate knowledge on their usage.




Do like the subliminal sharpness of your comment which indicates to me an unresolved,non - headphone related issue.
Still,in my system hardware EQ works better than software EQ and I only share my experience and I don't want to convert anybody;after all,I only have my own ears and not your's.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Whatever eq, makes you happy.
  I experienced strange phenomenon while playing with eq, I mean I can't believe that I could be that much sensitive
  to variations as small as 0.1 db in the treble area (at least with the hd800). And this , even with smooth slopes used.
  By analogy , it as if I was holding a sparkling stone, and there's wide variation of the sparkling depending of your view point.
  This phenomenon  discouraged me a bit for eq-ing.
  And in other hand , I imagine that people could appreciate even very small variations of frequency response,
  that could occur with their rig.


----------



## silversurfer616

I only use JRiver and was never happy with whatever EQ software I have tried as it puts a thin layer of veil on the music.
This doesn't happen with the hardware EQ on my vintage Pioneer SX1010.....clarity intact with lots of meat around it.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> I only use JRiver and was never happy with whatever EQ software I have tried as it puts a thin layer of veil on the music.


 
  Try  fabfilter pro q, in minimum phase mode... No veil for me.


----------



## dallan

How many out there who actually own the HD800 eq them, maybe a handful at most. Eqing them seems to be debated mostly out here on the "appreciation thread" by those who don't like them or own them.:rolleyes:


----------



## palmfish

I dont EQ the headphones. I do apply EQ to music when needed. For example, an old 30's jazz recording that sounds muddy/dull I might turn up the treble or some 70's rock with light bass I might crank the bass up a bit. Many of my albums dont require EQ at all.

I have noticed a veiled quality with some software EQ - such as the EQ built into my Sansa Clip. Although I suspect the veil has more to do with the volume than anything else. I have found that EQ reduces volume which will give the impression of a loss of dynamics/clarity. Stop the music for a few seconds and turn the volume up a hair and the veil will be gone.

Nothing wrong with mechanical EQ either. Every audio amp on the planet uses circuitry that has a sound. Trimming the sound with a mechanical knob doesnt change the "quality" of the sound.

Jeez, this discussion is like arguing whether a blue car is better than a green car...


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I have noticed a veiled quality with some software EQ - such as the EQ built into my Sansa Clip. Although I suspect the veil has more to do with the volume than anything else. I have found that EQ reduces volume which will give the impression of a loss of dynamics/clarity. Stop the music for a few seconds and turn the volume up a hair and the veil will be gone.


 
   
  The veil can be also linked to pre-echo artifacts, if you use linear phase eq ( post-echo being less annoying  with minimum phase). So many times I've read advice to just ignore linear phase eq, and just use minimum phase, but I prefer  to boost bass with linear phase.


----------



## palmfish

I have no idea what that means. On the other hand, I must acknowledge the opinion of anyone who can hear a difference of 0.1 dB...


----------



## bearFNF

No software EQ here, but I do use Lucid mode 1 and sometimes mode 2 on my Taboo MKIII.
   
  I will be rollin' some tubes soon.


----------



## dallan

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I dont EQ the headphones. I do apply EQ to music when needed. For example, an old 30's jazz recording that sounds muddy/dull I might turn up the treble or some 70's rock with light bass I might crank the bass up a bit. Many of my albums dont require EQ at all.
> 
> I have noticed a veiled quality with some software EQ - such as the EQ built into my Sansa Clip. Although I suspect the veil has more to do with the volume than anything else. I have found that EQ reduces volume which will give the impression of a loss of dynamics/clarity. Stop the music for a few seconds and turn the volume up a hair and the veil will be gone.
> 
> ...


 
  I don't eq headphones either.  I buy ones i like, then i don't have to.  
   
  So i had a Sansa Fuze once and the sound quality was flat and lifeless, i had bought it to play Flac files which it supported.  I can understand the issue with Sansa and the veiled sound.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dallan said:


> How many out there who actually own the HD800 eq them, maybe a handful at most. Eqing them seems to be debated mostly out here on the "appreciation thread" by those who don't like them or own them.


 
  Ya man! I never EQ them...No need.


----------



## ozz007

extrabigmehdi said:


> So here is hopefully my last eq attempt.
> This was adjusted by ear, rather than relying on some measurements found on the net.
> And below, explanations of the parts of curve.
> 
> ...





Try this link you may like the setting in here, it may help you
http://www.head-fi.org/t/555263/foobar2000-dolby-headphone-config-comment-discuss


----------



## Kyle 491

Its undeniable that they need EQ for songs with a low dynamic range, especially rock. Dropping the 4-8khz region by a few decibels helps remove harshness without comprising the soundstage size much. But then again, so do the HE-500, which are more forgiving and the fostex th900, which need more serious eq as the are pretty uneven in this region. The upper midrange is my greatest issue in dynamic cans, it never entirely sounds natural and smooth.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





kyle 491 said:


> Its undeniable that they need EQ for songs with a low dynamic range, especially rock.


 
  Well, I would agree, eq-ing helps with over-compressed stuff, especially if it sounds harsh.
  I find the fact that the hd800 is "very revealing" a poor excuse, when you see how it deals with recordings of that kind.
   
  @ozzoo7
  Quote: 





> Try this link you may like the setting in here, it may help you
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/555263/foobar2000-dolby-headphone-config-comment-discuss


 
  I found that with my last eq settings, the hd800 were enough relaxing/ easy to listen without relying to that kind of effects.
  A free alternative to dolby headphone (well it sounds more or less same to me):
  http://north-america.beyerdynamic.com/virtual-studio/


----------



## jjshin23

Coming from Speakers the serious headphone is a new area for me.  I heard the HD800 at a meet and was blown away.  It is the closest thing to sitting in the sweet spot with speakers where everything hits your ears just so perfect that the music/sounds takes you.  I do enjoy the speakers more but the HD800 is right up there with soundstage, air, imaging, and detail.  It is worth every penny IMO.  I have other cans which are great and enjoy very much but don't know if I can say it is worth every penny.  (TH900 gets close in terms of fun)


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





dallan said:


> I don't eq headphones either.  I buy ones i like, then i don't have to.


----------



## LugBug1

^^^^ +1


----------



## silversurfer616

^^^^ -1

The terminology is actually wrong as you don't EQ the headphones but the music coming from your source.
Had at one time three different amps (same DAC)and the HD800 had ....you have guessed it...three slightly different sound signatures.
Now which one is the by Sennheiser intended one?Nobody really knows!
All we do here is judging the HD800 as a final aural result when going through one's one system which can range from Fijo to....you name it!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> ^^^^ -1
> 
> The terminology is actually wrong as you don't EQ the headphones but the music coming from your source.
> Had at one time three different amps (same DAC)and the HD800 had ....you have guessed it...three slightly different sound signatures.
> ...


 
  Yeah I hear what you saying and it makes sense. But there are those who will say that any EQ distorts the sound. This will affect the sound before it reaches the headphones of course. But its still the headphones that let you hear the distorted sound whether its amplifier tone controls or software. For me a headphone such as the HD800 is the nearest I've got to a clean window on both my music and my system and so I try to keep it this way


----------



## silversurfer616

Of course you are right with the HD800 being "a clear window",but even the unEQed sound of the same piece of music sounds already different depending on whatever system it goes through.All sources don't sound equal.
For me it is the best headphone I had so far and I am just playing around with different configurations to really reach its potential(in a subjective way).


----------



## jjshin23

Well I've been doing it wrong... I've been switching headphones instead of moving around EQ for more bass or upper mids, etc... - all kidding aside it's how you want to listen to it so tweak on my friend and enjoy "your" perfect sound on the darn near perfect headphone.


----------



## silversurfer616

Will do.....


----------



## jsgraha

I would like to share my experience with hd800 (about 3-4 months since purchase). Sometimes the treble bothered me on some recording, sometimes it not. I've tried to eq it a bit (3-4db), but it seem the air around vocal seem reduce as well.

 I read somewhere that jitter effect most in this frequency region. So I start experimenting on jitter reduction, using audiophilleo, audiophilleo with battery mod, jkenny mk3, jkenny ciunas and finally settle in with my friend sonicweld diverter (he bought a dac with good usb connection). When I progress with converter, I noticed that the more I progress, the less I bothered with this frequency region. I also exprimenting with usb cable and bnc cable, some better and some make it worse until I settle with my current one.

So I come to the conclusion (IMO of course) that the problem with hd800 in this treble frequency might being increase by jitter. Once we minimize these, we might not have an issue??

I'm quite curious whether anyone use a good analog as a source to feed hd800 and still have a problem with this frequency. Sorry for the rambling as well.


----------



## dallan

I use The Sonicweld Diverter as well.  Also about the intent of Senn, I heard they tested using the Violectric V200 amp which i use as my second choice out of four home amps/one is a transportable though.  My primary is the Zana Deux and you can kind of tailor the sound with different tubes, so many colors in the rainbow.  There intent was to make a flagship headphone and in that they succeeded of course.


----------



## Cante Ista

Just put my daughter for a nap and put my HD800 of F3 on. When the music came on I literally thought that I had the computer signal going into my speaker rig for a second there and reached to my receiver to turn down the volume, so that my daughter can sleep. Needless to say, the volume did not decrease. This mirage did not last long, but it was long enough to make me think -- DAMN THESE ARE GOOD HEADPHONES!!!


----------



## jjshin23

cante ista said:


> Just put my daughter for a nap and put my HD800 of F3 on. When the music came on I literally thought that I had the computer signal going into my speaker rig for a second there and reached to my receiver to turn down the volume, so that my daughter can sleep. Needless to say, the volume did not decrease. This mirage did not last long, but it was long enough to make me think -- DAMN THESE ARE GOOD HEADPHONES!!!



Amazing cans I agree. Enjoy!


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





jjshin23 said:


> Amazing cans I agree. Enjoy!


----------



## NightFlight

cante ista said:


> Just put my daughter for a nap and put my HD800 of F3 on. When the music came on I literally thought that I had the computer signal going into my speaker rig for a second there and reached to my receiver to turn down the volume, so that my daughter can sleep. Needless to say, the volume did not decrease. This mirage did not last long, but it was long enough to make me think -- DAMN THESE ARE GOOD HEADPHONES!!!





The funny thing is the HD800s could wake up the dead as well...


----------



## muzic4life

Spacious sounding....detailed...with a smooth touch of a warmth...excellent cans from Senn.. and I love it too !!


----------



## PinkLed

Hey everyone, looking for a better EQ for my HD800's. Right now just using the one that comes with Foobar. Anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> Hey everyone, looking for a better EQ for my HD800's. Right now just using the one that comes with Foobar. Anyone have any suggestions?


 
  How many bands does the EQ have on Foobar


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> Hey everyone, looking for a better EQ for my HD800's. Right now just using the one that comes with Foobar. Anyone have any suggestions?


 
  Fab filter pro q
  or
  Psp Neon Hr
  or
  Spl Passeq
  or
  Electri-q (there's a free version)
   
  All of them to use with a vst adapter


----------



## ozz007

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Fab filter pro q
> or
> Psp Neon Hr
> or
> ...


 
  Try this, it really works with the HD800, Follow the install steps and try the different settings, It will make your HD800 sound amazing. you can also Conver your music to flac or other format and take it with you on the go, with the same settings.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/555263/foobar2000-dolby-headphone-config-comment-discuss


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





ozz007 said:


> Try this, it really works with the HD800, Follow the install steps and try the different settings, It will make your HD800 sound amazing. you can also Conver your music to flac or other format and take it with you on the go, with the same settings.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/555263/foobar2000-dolby-headphone-config-comment-discuss


 
  I'm not a fan of dolby headphone, although I didn't try the eq correction suggested.


----------



## PinkLed

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> How many bands does the EQ have on Foobar


 
  18
   
  Thanks guys


----------



## palmfish

I am really enjoying my HD800 with my new Asus Essence One Muses Edition. I know I've gone on and on in the past about how my Pioneer AVR sounds as good as any amp I've tried but now I finally see I've been trying the wrong amps. While my Pioneer reproduces good sound and a nice frequency balance, for once I'm hearing increased depth and width of stage, more pinpoint imaging, tightness and control of bass, faster dynamics, and just an overall more real, dynamic, and musical experience. I finally feel like I'm hearing everything the HD800 has to offer.
   
  It's not a night and day difference, and I think a lot of casual listeners might never notice, but I'm definitely a believer in proper amplification (and D to A conversion) now. I also removed my "Anax mod" because it sounds more open and clear without it and I'm no longer noticing any annoying "tizz" that used to occasionally crop up in some recordings.
   
  I feel as though I've scaled a hurdle and my eyes (and ears) are more open now. I'm guessing more than a few of you are nodding your head thinking "been there, done that." I'm very happy


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I am really enjoying my HD800 with my new Asus Essence One Muses Edition. I know I've gone on and on in the past about how my Pioneer AVR sounds as good as any amp I've tried but now I finally see I've been trying the wrong amps. While my Pioneer reproduces good sound and a nice frequency balance, for once I'm hearing increased depth and width of stage, more pinpoint imaging, tightness and control of bass, faster dynamics, and just an overall more real, dynamic, and musical experience. I finally feel like I'm hearing everything the HD800 has to offer.
> 
> It's not a night and day difference, and I think a lot of casual listeners might never notice, but I'm definitely a believer in proper amplification (and D to A conversion) now. I also removed my "Anax mod" because it sounds more open and clear without it and I'm no longer noticing any annoying "tizz" that used to occasionally crop up in some recordings.
> 
> I feel as though I've scaled a hurdle and my eyes (and ears) are more open now. I'm guessing more than a few of you are nodding your head thinking "been there, done that." I'm very happy


 
   
  Glad you're happy with your new amp.  All anyone of should really want is to be happy with our gear, so we can just concentrate on enjoying the music.


----------



## poikkeus

> Glad you're happy with your new amp.  All anyone of should really want is to be happy with our gear, so we can just concentrate on enjoying the music.


 
   
  I have roughly the same experience using the HD800 amped. Of course, the sound will vary according to the type of music, whether it's low-fi garage punk or hi-fi pop or classical...but the sound is still shockingly good. And it's my good fortune that I get this kind of sound through an iMac, using iTunes with Sound Enhancer to increase the stereo separation. 
   
  The sound is just "right." I realize that some have found the HD800 a little picky - but I guess I just lucked out with the synergy on my system. I know that because the same synergy isn't there when I listen to the same music using my stereo system.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





poikkeus said:


> I have roughly the same experience using the HD800 amped. Of course, the sound will vary according to the type of music, whether it's low-fi garage punk or hi-fi pop or classical...but the sound is still shockingly good. And it's my good fortune that I get this kind of sound through an iMac, using iTunes with Sound Enhancer to increase the stereo separation.
> 
> The sound is just "right." I realize that *some have found the HD800 a little picky* - but I guess I just lucked out with the synergy on my system. I know that because the same synergy isn't there when I listen to the same music using my stereo system.


 
   
  I don't think the HD800 is picky, I think the people that listen to it are picky


----------



## lightningfarron

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> I don't think the HD800 is picky, I think the people that listen to it are picky


 
   
  I totally agree with this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. or maybe i just havent expirience an bad pairing with hd800


----------



## muzic4life

Yes. I too think that hd800 is not picky at all. And also...i do find hd800 is not hard to drive as what people described. I can drive hd800 alright (and sound good!) just using Ipod + fostex hpp1 (which is known as not too strong amps). Using the same setup...i feel like hd650 is harder to drive than hd800 which surprised me.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I am really enjoying my HD800 with my new Asus Essence One Muses Edition. I know I've gone on and on in the past about how my Pioneer AVR sounds as good as any amp I've tried but now I finally see I've been trying the wrong amps. While my Pioneer reproduces good sound and a nice frequency balance, for once I'm hearing increased depth and width of stage, more pinpoint imaging, tightness and control of bass, faster dynamics, and just an overall more real, dynamic, and musical experience. I finally feel like I'm hearing everything the HD800 has to offer.
> 
> It's not a night and day difference, and I think a lot of casual listeners might never notice, but I'm definitely a believer in proper amplification (and D to A conversion) now. I also removed my "Anax mod" because it sounds more open and clear without it and I'm no longer noticing any annoying "tizz" that used to occasionally crop up in some recordings.
> 
> I feel as though I've scaled a hurdle and my eyes (and ears) are more open now. I'm guessing more than a few of you are nodding your head thinking "been there, done that." I'm very happy


 
  Good stuff. Been reading the inner fidelity review and they agree its a great match with the HD800's.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> I don't think the HD800 is picky, I think the people that listen to it are picky


 
   
  Quote: 





lightningfarron said:


> I totally agree with this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Or maybe you haven't experienced a really good amp / dac pairing with them to compare to.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Or maybe you haven't experienced a really good amp / dac pairing with them to compare to.


 
   
  Possibly. But I'm not really willing to spend multiple thousands for an amp/dac combo for a marginal improvement at best. Many people do, and if they like their rig then more power to them.
   
  People can tell me that my HD800 sounds like poop with my Lyr all they want, it's not going to make me want to rush out and buy an SPL Phonitor. I get immense enjoyment out of my rig just the way it is.


----------



## jjshin23

preproman said:


> Or maybe you haven't experienced a really good amp / dac pairing with them to compare to.


 Have to agree with you. I have a modest setup and the cans are amazing but heard it on a better set up at a meet and it was much better than my setup with the same song.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> Possibly. But I'm not really willing to spend multiple thousands for an amp/dac combo for a marginal improvement at best. Many people do, and if they like their rig then more power to them.
> 
> People can tell me that my HD800 sounds like poop with my Lyr all they want, *it's not going to make me want to rush out and buy an SPL Phonitor.* I get immense enjoyment out of my rig just the way it is.






   
   
  And believe me.  No body is trying to. Ha ha ha..


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





jjshin23 said:


> Have to agree with you. I have a modest setup and the cans are amazing but heard it on a better set up at a meet and it was much better than my setup with the same song.


 
   
  No doubt there are rigs that will sound better than mine with HD800. But just because you heard a setup that sounds better doesn't mean yours sounds crappy. I can happily accept that I will never be able to afford a $40000 dac, hence, there will always be a better rig than mine


----------



## extrabigmehdi

I'd think the problem is when you have other headphones (especially cheaper ones ) , and find that some qualities  are better on them. Then the question would be if you would blame the source, or the almighty hd800.


----------



## lightningfarron

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Or maybe you haven't experienced a really good amp / dac pairing with them to compare to.


 

 you are right but its more like i dont want to experienced an really good amp / dac (especially expensive one) to avoid me from getting tempted upgrading my rig because there will be no end to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The hd800 sounds good from my fostex hp-a8 and i will just be happy with mine for now.


----------



## Cante Ista

The question of diminishing returns is a matter of time also. What I mean is if you just audition amps shortly, you will not really hear the entire range of differences from better equipment. It is a time consuming process but the differences can start becoming bigger as you carefully listen, learn strenghts and weaknesses of the gear. Still you can def get a good amp for hd800 for around 1K USD>


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> The question of diminishing returns is a matter of time also. What I mean is if you just audition amps shortly, you will not really hear the entire range of differences from better equipment. It is a time consuming process but the differences can start becoming bigger as you carefully listen, learn strenghts and weaknesses of the gear. Still you can def get a good amp for hd800 for around 1K USD>


 
   
   
  +1
   
  very happy with how my HD 800/WA2 sounds, even when compared to more expensive amps. (though i do have tube upgrades, wish i had parts upgrade too :/)


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> Possibly. But I'm not really willing to spend multiple thousands for an amp/dac combo* for a marginal improvement at best*. Many people do, and if they like their rig then more power to them.
> 
> People can tell me that my HD800 sounds like poop with my Lyr all they want, it's not going to make me want to rush out and buy an SPL Phonitor. I get immense enjoyment out of my rig just the way it is.


 
   
  No, just no. Synergy is of utmost importance with the HD800, and it scales ridiculously high. The m-Stage for instance has great synergy with the HD800, but OTOH,  pairing it with a ZDSE is anything but _marginal_, I assure you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> No, just no. Synergy is of utmost importance with the HD800, and it scales ridiculously high. The m-Stage for instance has great synergy with the HD800, but OTOH,  pairing it with a ZDSE is anything but _marginal_, I assure you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Bingo. Yes, the HD800s can sound very good out of the Lyr (owned it and liked it). But as long as one is aware that they're leaving a lot of cards on the table. They continue to scale and scale. They got a big bump up when I picked up my WA2 and then again with the WA22 and LF. And now, holy smoke, they are simply breath taking on my GS-X MKII.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





> @BournePerfect
> No, just no. Synergy is of utmost importance with the HD800, and it scales ridiculously high.


 

 versus
  
  Quote: 





> @Cante Ista
> It is a time consuming process but the differences can start becoming bigger as you carefully listen,


 
   
 versus
  
  Quote: 





> @Stalker81598
> I'm not really willing to spend multiple thousands for an amp/dac combo for a marginal improvement at best.


 
   

 versus a guy that own different amp, and didn't hear much difference, but the post in lost in this long thread.
   
  Eh, enough of the hype pressure to buy whatever amp.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> versus
> 
> 
> versus
> ...


 
  I see no pressure, just opinions being expressed.  You have the choice to go as far as you want to.  No one is twisting your arm as far as I see, on this thread anyway...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Enjoy the music.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  +1...It is all good....


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> +1...It is all good....


 
  +2 !


----------



## dallan

verses
   
  need to own a pair of HD800's to have an arm to twist........


----------



## palmfish

It's all about the law of diminishing returns and expendable income and passion for music and/or toys.
   
  For me I have to decide if I am happy with a $1000 amp or do I want to spend $2000 for that extra percent of clarity/detail...or maybe that $500 amp is good enough and I'll get new shocks and springs for my Porsche, or maybe I don't need an amp at all and I'll buy a new regulator and dry suit that I've been putting off. Or...   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  We all draw the line in a different place.


----------



## rawrster

I'm at that line for both my rigs in terms of amps and dacs. My Buffalo III and Mjolnir is good enough for me with the HD800. The GSX is definitely an improvement but diminishing gains come in hard at the cost of the GSX compared to the Mjolnir. As long as what you have lets you enjoy the music that's all you can ask for.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





dallan said:


> verses
> 
> need to own a pair of HD800's to have an arm to twist........


 
   
  BuhbuhbuhitsallTHESAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  -Daniel


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Bingo. Yes, the HD800s can sound very good out of the Lyr (owned it and liked it). But as long as one is aware that they're leaving a lot of cards on the table. They continue to scale and scale. They got a big bump up when I picked up my WA2 and then again with the WA22 and LF. And now, holy smoke, they are simply breath taking on my GS-X MKII.


 
   
  I've seen a lot of people saying incredible stuff about this GS-X MKII, especially how it drives the HD800 so well despite being a solid-state amp (tube amps are generally preferred for the HD800). I own a ZDSE, which is undoubtedly the best amp I've heard with the HD800 along with Bakoon HPA-21, but I wonder if the GS-X MKII outperforms both of them by a huge margin. Of course I don't have the money to buy the GS-X MKII right now, but if it is indeed a significant improvement over my Zana Deux SE, then I may consider it in the future. Have you heard the ZDSE, and if so, do you think the GS-X is far superior to it in its ability to drive the HD800?


----------



## Kendoji

It looks like I'm settled on getting an HD 800. Was going to go for the LCD-3 but it's much more expensive and would have to be ordered from the US. From what I've read, my V200 should be nice with it, and I also have a Taboo MKIII coming soon, which I believe Frank said was a "revelation" with the HD 800. I'm very curious about how I'll feel about them, as I tend to like warm headphones. But I'm also really drawn to the idea of more detail and soundstage.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





songmic said:


> I've seen a lot of people saying incredible stuff about this GS-X MKII, especially how it drives the HD800 so well *despite* being a solid-state amp *(tube amps are generally preferred for the HD800)*. I own a ZDSE, which is undoubtedly the best amp I've heard with the HD800 along with Bakoon HPA-21, but I wonder if the GS-X MKII outperforms both of them by a huge margin. Of course I don't have the money to buy the GS-X MKII right now, but if it is indeed a significant improvement over my Zana Deux SE, then I may consider it in the future. Have you heard the ZDSE, and if so, do you think the GS-X is far superior to it in its ability to drive the HD800?


 




   
  None of these amp are "far superior" anyway.  Subtle difference.  
   
  "For me."  Tubes bring a certain distortion in the mid rage that sacrifices clarity and detail.  It seems that folks are trying to get tube amps to sound like SS amps.  With saying like "This tube amp sounds more like a SS amp"  why not just get a SS amp?
   
  Where's the poll that says tube amps are generally preferred?


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> It looks like I'm settled on getting an HD 800. Was going to go for the LCD-3 but it's much more expensive and would have to be ordered from the US. From what I've read, my V200 should be nice with it, and I also have a Taboo MKIII coming soon, which I believe Frank said was a "revelation" with the HD 800. I'm very curious about how I'll feel about them, as I tend to like warm headphones. But I'm also really drawn to the idea of more detail and soundstage.


 
  I had the V200 for a while with the HD800. It was a nice pairing


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Nonoe of these amp are "far superior" anyway.  Subtle difference.
> 
> "For me."  Tubes bring a certain distortion in the mid rage that sacrifices clarity and detail.  It seems that folks are trying to get tube amps to sound like SS amps.  With saying like "This tube amp sounds more like a SS amp"  why not just get a SS amp?
> 
> Where's the poll that says tube amps are generally preferred?


 
   
  Well said.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





preproman said:


> None of these amp are "far superior" anyway.  Subtle difference.
> 
> "For me."  Tubes bring a certain distortion in the mid rage that sacrifices clarity and detail.  It seems that folks are trying to get tube amps to sound like SS amps.  With saying like "This tube amp sounds more like a SS amp"  why not just get a SS amp?
> 
> Where's the poll that says tube amps are generally preferred?


 
   
  I like the sound tubes bring to the HD800. Agreed, it may reduce its accuracy, however I find the Lyr brings a certain "liquidity" into the mids, not to mention the extra weight in the low end. Not scientifically accurate, but enjoyable.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> I like the sound tubes bring to the HD800. Agreed, it may reduce its accuracy, however I find the Lyr brings a certain "liquidity" into the mids, not to mention the extra weight in the low end. Not scientifically accurate, but enjoyable.


 
   
   
  I can see that.


----------



## dallan

I own a v200 and Zana Deux.  Both good, Zana Deux clearer and more dynamic but the v200 is wonderful and gets a lot of time with the phones.  I don't always like to power up the tubes for short listens or if i am not really sitting down for a session.  Other amps i have liked with the HD800 are the B22(not sure of the exact configuration) and Luxman P1 but that was long ago.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





songmic said:


> I've seen a lot of people saying incredible stuff about this GS-X MKII, especially how it drives the HD800 so well despite being a solid-state amp (tube amps are generally preferred for the HD800). I own a ZDSE, which is undoubtedly the best amp I've heard with the HD800 along with Bakoon HPA-21, but I wonder if the GS-X MKII outperforms both of them by a huge margin. Of course I don't have the money to buy the GS-X MKII right now, but if it is indeed a significant improvement over my Zana Deux SE, then I may consider it in the future. Have you heard the ZDSE, and if so, do you think the GS-X is far superior to it in its ability to drive the HD800?


 
  I have heard the HD800/ZDSE and liked it very much. I would put it on par with the Liquid Fire. That said, the GS-X had me selling my Liquid Fire a month after it arrived. It can drive the HE-6s, LCD-3s, HD800s, TH-900s, W3000s and all of my IEMs to levels that still astound me. How many headphone amps can do that?


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I have heard the HD800/ZDSE and liked it very much. I would put it on par with the Liquid Fire. That said, the GS-X had me selling my Liquid Fire a month after it arrived. It can drive the HE-6s, LCD-3s, HD800s, TH-900s, W3000s and all of my IEMs to levels that still astound me. How many headphone amps can do that?


 
   
  Yes, I understand that the GS-X is a much more versatile amp. I've had very good results with my ZDSE when it came to driving both low-impedance high-sensitivity phones like TH900 and IEMs, and high-impedance cans like HD800, but not so well with orthos. I mainly use my Burson Soloist for my LCD-3, and while it's a terrific combo, I think the GS-X will do better than that given its price point.
   
  I'm just asking, when it comes to HD800 alone, which is superior: ZDSE or GS-X? If their level of sonic performance is similar that it is hard to say which is overall better, could you at least tell me how different they sound, in terms of sonic signature?
   
  By the way, the most impressive solid-state amp I've heard with the HD800 was Bakoon HPA-21, bar none. The HPA-21 was okay with the LCD-3 too (better than ZDSE at least), but it was also one of the best pairings with my TH900 in current drive mode.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i would go for the ZDSE cause i like tubes. (i am planning on buying one soon for hd 800 and when i buy th-900).


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





preproman said:


> None of these amp are "far superior" anyway.  Subtle difference.
> 
> "For me."  Tubes bring a certain distortion in the mid rage that sacrifices clarity and detail.  It seems that folks are trying to get tube amps to sound like SS amps.  With saying like "This tube amp sounds more like a SS amp"  why not just get a SS amp?
> 
> Where's the poll that says tube amps are generally preferred?


 




   
  Simply reading the various HD800 threads will prove the concensus favors tubes. Waaay too many ss amps just sound like garbage with the Senn ime. Obviously the GSX and others are changing the tide a bit...but those are the exceptions.  Also, my ZDSE was more detailed, dynamic, spaaaaacious, bass-ious, sweeter in the treble, and *gasp* more neutral than my Dynalo. The 'tubes are distorted' and 'transistors are accurate' theory really needs to go away around here. Unfortunately, many love to regurgitate old myths without backing it up with experience imo, such is Head-fi I suppose. That said-it usually takes $$ to get the tube amps that dispel these kind of myths-yet everyone can buy an Objective 2 and gt up on a soapbox. *sighs*
   
  -Daniel


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Simply reading the various HD800 threads will prove the concensus favors tubes. Waaay too many ss amps just sound like garbage with the Senn ime. Obviously the GSX and others are changing the tide a bit...but those are the exceptions.  Also, my ZDSE was more detailed, dynamic, spaaaaacious, bass-ious, sweeter in the treble, and *gasp* more neutral than my Dynalo. The 'tubes are distorted' and 'transistors are accurate' theory really needs to go away around here. Unfortunately, many love to regurgitate old myths without backing it up with experience imo, such is Head-fi I suppose. That said-it usually takes $$ to get the tube amps that dispel these kind of myths-yet everyone can buy an Objective 2 and gt up on a soapbox. *sighs*
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
   
  There's no myths when it comes to "MY" ears, personal experience and preference - sorry...  O and another thing.  If you didn't know.  The only consensus is, there will never be a consensus.  On that note.  Please point me to these so called consensus - Oh where in one now. No consensus - sorry again.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It's funny how long ago the saying came about.  "My tube amp sound like a SS amp"  I wonder why?


----------



## palmfish

I agree with a lot of what you say Bourne much of the time, but not this time.
   
  I think tube lovers are a vocal minority overall (although head-fi has a disproportionately large congregation), and being a tube lover/owner yourself, your attention is naturally focused on tube related comments. I have heard the HD800 with some very nice tube amps and I agree they can sound very, very good. However, I have also heard the HD800 sound very, very good with SS amps.
   
  It's my opinion that tube amps are a very specialized niche and I understand the appeal of them, but I suspect that you have some bias (which we all do) and perhaps you simply haven't heard enough SS amps that sound good (to you) with the HD800. I think this may be because you don't enjoy the HD800 "naked." Nothing wrong with that - humans don't all share the same tastes. And that's why there is such a resurgence in interest in tube amps. Go beyond the nostalgia, the tube rolling fun, and the neat-o looks, and they do have a certain kind of organic vivid sound quality that is pleasing.
   
  On the other hand, I think a good engineer with audio circuit experience could design and build a SS amp that sounds EXACTLY like a Zana Deux - and it will sound that way right out of the box, 5 seconds after you turn it on, and every time you listen to it for 80 years to come - with zero maintenance and zero changes. Honestly, I'm surprised someone hasn't done this yet - build a high quality SS amp with a "tube" button on the front panel to switch between "SS sound" and "Tube sound." Better yet, how about a 4 position rotary dial to choose between specific amps?
   
  1. Lehmann BCL
  2. GS-X II
  3. Liquid Fire
  4. Zana Deux
   
  It would be expensive, no doubt, but it's totally doable in my opinion...


----------



## Frank I

My tube amp sounds like a tube amp. The tone and decay is what I always hear when I attend live concerts. Here a good question and answer session on tube amps and why most musicians prefer the sound of a tube a,p and many better recordings are still done using vintage amps. I  have used both amos for over 36 years now and I always prefer a tube amplifier over solid state amps.  I can listen to solid state amps and enjoy them but my reference camps have always been tube amplifier. Why tube amps/FAQ and here is some more good reading about tube amps. I also think its about what one prefers but for me I always prefer tube amplifiers.
   
   
   
   
 =YTo0OntzOjU6IndpZHRoIjtzOjM6Ijg3MCI7czo2OiJoZWlnaHQiO3M6NDoiNjAw&parameters[1]=bSI7czo3OiJib2R5VGFnIjtzOjQxOiI8Ym9keSBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luOjA7IGJh&parameters[2]=Y2tncm91bmQ6I2ZmZjsiPiI7czo0OiJ3cmFwIjtzOjM3OiI8YSBocmVmPSJqYXZh&parameters[3]=c2NyaXB0OmNsb3NlKCk7Ij4gfCA8L2E%2BIjt9]
	


 After decades of solid state amplifier innovations, tube amplifiers have staged a powerful comeback in the last ten years, due to their sonic merits.

*Simpler, purer circuits*
 At Ayon Audio, we feel that tubes are the sonically superior technology for audio, as their generally simpler circuits and smaller number of components provide for a purer signal path and consequently more truthful signal handling. This is because fewer components provide for fewer elements in a circuit to degrade the signal, distort and muddle the sound. Simple circuits also provide for inherently higher reliability, since there are fewer parts which can fail. Tubes are also more tolerant of circuit drifts and deviations in component specifications, and thus can be used in simpler, purer circuits.

*More benign overload and distortion behaviour*
 A lot of music features great dynamic signal swings, and it has been well established that in tube amplifiers the onset of clip/overload as maximum power is reached is gradual and rising distortion is of predominately low even-order harmonic nature. In comprehensive listening tests, even high levels of even-order harmonic distortion has been found to be significantly less offensive to the ear than even small levels of the harsh, odd order harmonic distortion produced by solid-state circuits when their reach their power limit and enter clipping. In transistor amplifiers, the distortion rise very quickly as the maximum power level is reached, showing almost square wave characteristics, and a high DC component, - which can destroy easily loudspeaker drivers if not stopped to do so.
  




 *Vacuum tubes and “Tone”*
 The difference in the distortion characteristics between the two technologies can be well illustrated by looking at their effects in guitar amplifier design.
 Tube guitar amplifier manufacturers have traditionally designed their circuits to drive the output stages into overload distortion, using the resultant distortion to achieve their trademark “tone”. In a tube amplifier, this tone contributes to the amplifier's sound, but in a solid-state amplifier this distortion is audibly intolerable and easily destroys the speakers. 
 When transistors overload (in a discrete circuit or in an OP amp), the dominant distortion product is the third harmonic. The third harmonic "produces a sound many musicians refer to as blanketed”. Instead of making the tone fuller, a strong third actually makes the tone thin and hard. On the other hand, with tubes (particularly triodes) the dominant distortion product is the second harmonic: “Musically the second is an octave above the fundamental and is almost inaudible, yet it adds body to the sound, making it fuller”. Tubes sound better because their distortion products are more musical. Tubes provide a more appropriate load to transducers. Those are the fundamental reasons why tubes simply sound better.

*Vacuum tubes are the more linear and require less feedback*
 Tubes are voltage amplifiers as opposed to transistors which are current amplification devices. As a consequence, tubes are a more linear amplification technology, requiring less overall negative feedback to make the circuit linear. Negative feedback re-injects a sample of the amplifier’s output signal back into the input, 180 degrees out of phase, in an attempt to reduce amplifier non-linearity and distortion. In practice, negative feedback tends to slow the amplifier down and sucks the emotion and life out of the music. High feedback designs usually sound sterile, boring and lifeless, while low or zero feedback designs provide for a more immediate and natural sound. Depending on technology and type of the used output device, transistor amplifiers generally require the use of over 40dB of local loop or global negative feedback.

*Superior dynamic capabilities*
 The higher working voltages present in tube amplifiers generally allow for wider voltage swings and better signal headroom before entering into overload territory. Higher working voltages yield higher audible energy storage* with lower value capacitors. ~ 500 volts working voltage in a tube amplifier approximate about ~ 80 volts in a transistor circuit. This is most likely why many listeners feel that tubes sound more powerful.

 *Audible energy storage is voltage squared divided by 2 multiplied by capacitance





 Ayon Super Triode Power Tubes
 Why Tube Amplifiers
 









 


   

 



​



 ​


----------



## palmfish

Very interesting read Frank, thanks.
   
  I have only three issues with it...
   
  1. Tube amps are electrical devices just like solid state amps. They obey the same laws of physics that SS amps must. That means anyone with the proper skills and tools can look at the signal going into a tube amp and coming out the other end and recreate that process EXACTLY using SS components. There is no magic involved in creating "tube sound."
   
  2. The article makes a very strong emotional case for the appeal of tube amps. And who wrote it? Why, a company that makes and sells tube amps, or course!
   
  3. Guitar amps are not headphone/speaker amps. The former creates the sound of an instrument as the artist desires - they are a PART OF the instrument. The latter are tasked with simply taking a little electrical signal and making it bigger. If it does more than this, then it isn't properly doing its job - it's adding distortion. It isn't "better" or "worse" though, it's just personal taste. Some people drive a 2013 Corvette ZR-1 Others would prefer 19'68 Stingray. Which is the "better" car?
   
  Yes, there are recording studios that still use tube amps (Mapleshade comes to mind). And yes, they can sound very, very good (Mapleshade again comes to mind). But in all cases, the acoustics of the studio, the choice and placement of microphones, the recording equipment used, the engineers mixing and mastering decisions are all a part of the performance.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Simply reading the various HD800 threads will prove the concensus favors tubes. Waaay too many ss amps just sound like garbage with the Senn ime. Obviously the GSX and others are changing the tide a bit...but those are the exceptions.  Also, my ZDSE was more detailed, dynamic, spaaaaacious, bass-ious, sweeter in the treble, and *gasp* more neutral than my Dynalo. The 'tubes are distorted' and 'transistors are accurate' theory really needs to go away around here. Unfortunately, many love to regurgitate old myths without backing it up with experience imo, such is Head-fi I suppose. That said-it usually takes $$ to get the tube amps that dispel these kind of myths-yet everyone can buy an Objective 2 and gt up on a soapbox. *sighs*
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  I think we're generalizing here too much. There are great tube amps and great solid state amps (along with poor tube/ss amps). Poor amps sound bad and good amps sound good. That's how you can tell them apart. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Agreed completely on the O2. Very nice starter amp and can compete with some poorly designed mid-fi stuff...but endgame...LoL.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I think we're generalizing here too much. There are great tube amps and great solid state amps (along with poor tube/ss amps). Poor amps sound bad and good amps sound good. That's how you can tell them apart.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Could be 'endgame' for some...this goes back to the earlier discussion about how far one wants/needs to go...


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I agree with a lot of what you say Bourne much of the time, but not this time.
> 
> I think tube lovers are a vocal minority overall (although head-fi has a disproportionately large congregation), and being a tube lover/owner yourself, your attention is naturally focused on tube related comments. I have heard the HD800 with some very nice tube amps and I agree they can sound very, very good. However, I have also heard the HD800 sound very, very good with SS amps.
> 
> ...


 
  I was more referring to the fact that I've read nearly every single thread here on the HD800 over the past few years and the 'posted' consensus, if you will, leans toward tube pairings with the HD800. Whether that's just a vocal minority or not I couldn't tell you. I can tell you that I have heard the HD800 on many vintage speaker amps, supposed cheaper ss synergystic pairings (TTVJ Fet A, Dynalo, m-Stage etc) and none of them could do it justice. Granted I haven't tried the upper tier ss amps with it as I'm currently have a Levithan being built, and possibly a GSX down the line for an ss option. I definitely prefer the hassle-free ease of solid state, but the ZDSE made a believer out of me.
   
  -Daniel
   
  PS: If someone makes an ss amp sound 'exactly' like a ZDSE, including it's wondrous soundstage-sign me up. 
   
  Prepo...nvm lol.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I think we're generalizing here too much. There are great tube amps and great solid state amps (along with poor tube/ss amps). Poor amps sound bad and good amps sound good. That's how you can tell them apart.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  +1
   
  good amps sound good and poor amps suck, thats about it, the rest is merely a preference.


----------



## preproman

I having a Dynahi-DX built, hopefully another step up in the SS world.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I having a Dynahi-DX built, hopefully another step up in the SS world.


 
  no going the LAu route?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> no going the LAu route?


 
  Heck no.  No way.  $6.5K?  If it was $3K - I would be more interested.


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Heck no.  No way.  $6.5K?


 
  ditto! Add some change and you have the SimAudio moon amp! anyway, back to hd800.


----------



## RedBull

cante ista said:


> Just put my daughter for a nap and put my HD800 of F3 on. When the music came on I literally thought that I had the computer signal going into my speaker rig for a second there and reached to my receiver to turn down the volume, so that my daughter can sleep. Needless to say, the volume did not decrease. This mirage did not last long, but it was long enough to make me think -- DAMN THESE ARE GOOD HEADPHONES!!!




I have similar experience. +1



extrabigmehdi said:


> I'd think the problem is when you have other headphones (especially cheaper ones ) , and find that some qualities  are better on them. Then the question would be if you would blame the source, or the almighty hd800.




The almighty hd800, of course!


----------



## palmfish

I spent a few days this weekend listening without the "Anax mod." Sure enough the treble spike (cliche, I know but what else could I call it?) snuck up on me again. I'm glad I stored the pieces on a sheet of tin foil. Reinstalled them and all is well again.
   
  I have to wonder with all the R&D Sennheiser put into their flagship, what are others opinions on whether the response is by design or if it was somehow overlooked during production? Maybe it's just as close as they could get to perfect and they simply stopped messing with it (robbing Peter to pay Paul)?


----------



## negura

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I spent a few days this weekend listening without the "Anax mod." Sure enough the treble spike (cliche, I know but what else could I call it?) snuck up on me again. I'm glad I stored the pieces on a sheet of tin foil. Reinstalled them and all is well again.
> 
> I have to wonder with all the R&D Sennheiser put into their flagship, what are others opinions on whether the response is by design or if it was somehow overlooked during production? Maybe it's just as close as they could get to perfect and they simply stopped messing with it (robbing Peter to pay Paul)?


 
   
  I am also preferring the HD800s with my ANAX mods installed. What Sennheiser told me in person when I popped this question is that the a lot of recordings are too bright and the frequency response of the HD800 is perfectly adequate. Their R&D tuning methods are both objective, via measurements, and subjective using a group of listeners who are polled for results. I personally think I wouldn't be missing anything if the HD800s were a bit less bright (either through materials used or tuned slightly differently).


----------



## Cante Ista

Quote: 





negura said:


> I am also preferring the HD800s with my ANAX mods installed. What Sennheiser told me in person when I popped this question is that the a lot of recordings are too bright and the frequency response of the HD800 is perfectly adequate. Their R&D tuning methods are both objective, via measurements, and subjective using a group of listeners who are polled for results. I personally think I wouldn't be missing anything if the HD800s were a bit less bright (either through materials used or tuned slightly differently).


 

 For me they are perfect. I have not experienced treble issues at all so I am glad they made them as they did.
  different strokes....


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





negura said:


> Their R&D tuning methods are both objective, via measurements, and subjective using a group of listeners who are polled for results.


 
   
  Maybe "the subjective tests" were done only with classical music.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Maybe "the subjective tests" were done only with classical music.


 
   
  I don't find the "tizz" to be genre dependent.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I don't find the "tizz" to be genre dependent.


 

 I'm not sure I  understand this tizz thing.
  Is it something that could be related to sibilance ?


----------



## palmfish

Yes, I suppose it is a form of sibilance. Only certain instrument sounds at a very specific frequency though. Imagine a steel brush on a snare drum or cymbal taps having a piercing sizzling bacon sound.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Yes, I suppose it is a form of sibilance. Only certain instrument sounds at a very specific frequency though. Imagine a steel brush on a snare drum or cymbal taps having a piercing sizzling bacon sound.


 
  Well, great that you managed to fix this.
   
  I think I've finally understood how the anax mod works: it's about dampening , i.e you limit unwanted reflections in every hard parts, while off course you avoid to obstruct grills.
   
  Perhaps just putting some kleenex would work ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Mmm more seriously I'm not sure if there  would be a basic solution, without that creatology thing.


----------



## esn89

Quote: 





negura said:


> I am also preferring the HD800s with my ANAX mods installed. What Sennheiser told me in person when I popped this question is that the a lot of recordings are too bright and the frequency response of the HD800 is perfectly adequate. Their R&D tuning methods are both objective, via measurements, and subjective using a group of listeners who are polled for results. I personally think I wouldn't be missing anything if the HD800s were a bit less bright (either through materials used or tuned slightly differently).


 
   
   
  The Anax mods are a god send.
   
  Can't listen to my HD800 without them anymore.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> For me they are perfect. I have not experienced treble issues at all so I am glad they made them as they did.
> different strokes....


 
   
  Well, well look a here Viktor.  It seems like we agree yet again.  I tried a pair of HD800 (anax mod) at a local meet and compared them to my HD800 with a Reign cable.  With my pair I did not experience this treble issue as well.  With the modded pair, I was sacrificing more things that I was willing to give up.  Soundstage, air around the instruments and so on.  It took away what the HD800s was "for me"  I will not put any additional mods on my pair other than an aftermarket cable.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Well, well look a here Viktor.  It seems like we agree yet again.  I tried a pair of HD800 (anax mod) at a local meet and compared them to my HD800 with a Reign cable.  With my pair I did not experience this treble issue as well.  With the modded pair, I was sacrificing more things that I was willing to give up.  Soundstage, air around the instruments and so on.  It took away what the HD800s was "for me"  I will not put any additional mods on my pair other than an aftermarket cable.


 
  +2


----------



## extrabigmehdi

I was kidding about damping the hd800 with kleenex, but it was already done with the T1:
   

   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/612796/guide-how-to-properly-dampen-your-beyerdynamic-t1/105#post_9082608
   
  I imagine that adding some damping in the hd800 could improve a bit the sound, although I doubt it would be too significant.
   
  This reminds me of the hd25 vs amperior,  sennheiser basically added some foam & use metallic cup to minimize resonances, but the improvement is not enough to consider that it sounds different.
   
  I'm guessing that the hd900 could be better dampening + slightly bigger driver.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I was kidding about damping the hd800 with kleenex, but it was already done with the T1:


 
   
  This evokes Fred Flintstone.


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





negura said:


> This evokes Fred Flintstone.


 
   
  I thought breakfast cereal


----------



## dallan

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> +2


 
  +3  
   
  Happy they left them the way they are.  All of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, ya know.......
   
  Some just like to complain, some just like to troll.........  
   
  Glad there are those who feel better doing their low tech fixes and it works for them, gladder that i don't have to though.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I tried a pair of HD800 (anax mod) at a local meet


 
  Were those mine?  Those had the extra anti slip shelf mat inside.  That's been taken out, permanently!


----------



## muzic4life

but it was already done with the T1:




http://www.head-fi.org/t/612796/guide-how-to-properly-dampen-your-beyerdynamic-t1/105#post_9082608
[/quote]

Omg ! How does the surgery improves the sound actually? Is this really necessary for the T1?...i think mine sound really great as it is...


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Well, well look a here Viktor.  It seems like we agree yet again.  I tried a pair of HD800 (anax mod) at a local meet and compared them to my HD800 with a Reign cable.  With my pair I did not experience this treble issue as well.  With the modded pair, I was sacrificing more things that I was willing to give up.  Soundstage, air around the instruments and so on.  It took away what the HD800s was "for me"  I will not put any additional mods on my pair other than an aftermarket cable.


 
   
  I'm very curious as to how the so-called Anax mod changes the HD800's sound. While I love the way my HD800 sounds with my ZDSE, I still think it's somewhat bright and treble hot at times, while leaving moar bass to be desired. The only reason I'm hesitant of doing it is because I'm afraid I may somehow damage the cans in the process because I'm a poor DYI'er, so I'm indefinitely waiting for Anax to release a commercial version of this mod. He is said to be working on the 3.0 version of this mod, but its release date has yet TBA.
   
  For me, the ideal headphone in terms of both technicalities and sheer enjoyment is something that has the best of HD800 and TH900 or LCD-3. The pinpoint 3D imaging and massive soundstage of  the HD800, yet tilting toward a slightly warmer or darker sound signature like that of TH900 or LCD-3. With my HD800/ZDSE, I cannot ask for more transparency, imaging and soundstage as it is top-tier in every way I could think of. But even with the ZDSE taming the picky drivers of the HD800, I still cannot shake off the feeling that it sounds cold and analytic. If this mod can indeed make the HD800 sound warmer and less bright at the expense of soundstage, I think it's worth a shot.
   
  Of course, if I feel that the mod sacrifices too much good qualities of the HD800 in exchange for the added warmth, I may not use it in the end. But if the sacrifices are subtle, while it makes the HD800 much more euphonic and musically enjoyable, then I'll be glad to stick with the mod. I hope Anax has taken users' feedbacks into consideration and develop the new 3.0 mod in a way that minimizes such sacrifices while maximizing its benefits.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





cante ista said:


> For me they are perfect. I have not experienced treble issues at all so I am glad they made them as they did.
> different strokes....


 
  +1 
   
  I have in the past with Beyer, AKG and Grado. None with these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyone looking for a tubey sound with solid state, might want to look into vintage amps. Granted I'm on a bit of a vintage kick at the mo.. But these guys really bring the HD800's to life! Big bottom end, holographic nobules, slippery nipples, warm crevices etc etc 
   
  Not for the clean as a none existing window analytical crowd, that like their warts in full view mind you...


----------



## silversurfer616

+1 for the combnation of HD800 and vintage amps.


----------



## Solude

Dropping the control and boosting the bass can't hurt to be sure.


----------



## Bolardito

dallan said:


> +3
> 
> Happy they left them the way they are.  All of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, ya know.......
> 
> ...




X4


----------



## drez

preproman said:


> Well, well look a here Viktor.  It seems like we agree yet again.  I tried a pair of HD800 (anax mod) at a local meet and compared them to my HD800 with a Reign cable.  With my pair I did not experience this treble issue as well.  With the modded pair, I was sacrificing more things that I was willing to give up.  Soundstage, air around the instruments and so on.  It took away what the HD800s was "for me"  I will not put any additional mods on my pair other than an aftermarket cable.




The latest mods change the sou d quite a bit vs the original anax mod. The sound signature is closer to the original, just a little more benign in the treble, then again I haven't heard a stock pair in quite a while (on my to do list along with a diy cable idea I have). Still if you don't have an issue with the stock sound why fix it right?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





drez said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  +1 to that....


----------



## muzic4life

Changing cable is farthest i will go if i wanted to have a bit diferent flavor to the sound...or otherwise save some money and upgrade the system


----------



## zigy626

I have both Meier Corda Jazz and Lehmann BCL. Moving from Jazz to BCL I saw what can only be described as marginal improvement. One cost £300 and the other is £650. I was expecting exactly double the improvement in sound but it was not the case. I must have moved back and forth between the two amps atleast 50 times but could not hear any great difference. It was only when I did some critical listening (ie closed my eyes, switched off the lights, played the best hi-def 24/96 music) that I could hear some marginal difference. I have come to the conclusion after my test that all SS amp that are designed well, have low distortion, and linear response should sound the same. I personally feel that the DAC plays a bigger role than which amp you choose. I read some really over the top reviews of BCL and HD800's and was totally left disappointed. First thought "I was hearing the same sound with my Meier Jazz".


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> I have come to the conclusion after my test that all SS amp that are designed well, have low distortion, and linear response should sound the same. I personally feel that the DAC plays a bigger role than which amp you choose.


 
   
  What you can conclude is that opamps followed by a buffer all pretty much sound like opamps into buffers   I personally find it easier to hear amp changes than source changes.  Or put in other terms, amps scale in performance much faster $ for $ while source improvement are going to hurt.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i hated hd 800s and bcl, sounded really boring and lacked dynamics as well.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i hated hd 800s and bcl, sounded really boring and lacked dynamics as well.


 
  http://www.headfonia.com/lehmann-black-cube-linear/
   
  The above review makes an interesting read. Apparently the writer is really enamored with the Lehmann BCL and HD800 combo. Frankly I have lost faith in reading all these hyperbolic reviews on Headphone amplifiers. I just sold my Meier Jazz for 1/3 price of what I paid for it. Thank fully I did not pay full price on the Lehmann. Listening to it now it sounds great but I am sure if I would not switch to the Jazz it would sound equally great.


----------



## Tony1110

The Lehman is seriously overpriced and doesn't seem to cater for that many headphones. They're really popular here in the UK because they're lauded by the British hi-fi mags. I auditioned one with my T1's and felt extremely underwhelmed. Most of the really good amps never get mentioned in the magazines. Thank goodness for Head-Fi.


----------



## ForsakenArcher

@zigy626
  You could have upgraded to Meier Classic which is around the same price as BCL. I am loving mine a lot with HD800, for the humble price.


----------



## BlancoTheBull

Yesterday I received Senn HDVD 800 and HD 800). 
 Does anyone have advise for better usb cables for the dac? Or any experience? I'm now using a standard external hdd usb cable. And I know that the audio quality isn't at all what this set is capable of. I listened to exactly this set (through CD, now through DAC) and there was so much soundstage, detail, openness etc.
  
 Someone wants to sell me Heavens Gate Ultra Supreme usb cable. Does anybody has any experience with this or something similar? The person tells me its alot better than the best audioquest usb cable.
  
 Well, thanks alot.


----------



## BournePerfect

I'd worry about getting your HD800s balanced first, as most reports say the TRS out on the HDVD800 is quite lackluster compared to the balanced outputs. Cables should always be your last priority when ironing out the weak links imo...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## jcx

there is nothing subtle about digital signal transmission problems - the correct data either arrives or not - either you hear pops, clicks, dropouts or not
   
  cables can conduct or radiate noise which may affect the DAC analog output or amp circuitry - but there's no excuse for a USB DAC manufacturer to have built something with such a problem
   
  if suspected then clamp on and toroid ferrite can block common mode RF/EMI - but it helps to know the frequency range of the problem
   
http://www.elmac.co.uk/pdfs/ferrite.pdf
http://www.arvelo.net/N2MZZ/graphics/A Hamsguide-to-RFI-ferrrtes-baulns-audio-interfacing-k9yc.pdf[/QUOTE]
   
  and while I do hate the TRS "standard" and 1/8" TRS can be lots worse than 1/4" - it really makes little difference with 300 Ohm headphones, especially with 1/4" - by simple impedance ratioing the TRS common gnd contact R is 9x less important with 300 Ohm cans than with 32 Ohm headphones


----------



## Solude

The USB cable is most certainly not affecting the results.  Do go balanced ASAP though.


----------



## Jd007

What is a sub/around $1000 amp that pairs well with the HD800? I recently switched from HD650 on my Little Dot MK III and found the 800 to be a bit too clinical, with sharp treble and not as much impact in the bass. What can I do to improve that?


----------



## Solude

LCD-3 

I liked the Burson Soloist in that range as well as the B22.


----------



## Happy Camper

blancothebull said:


> Yesterday I received Senn HDVD 800 and HD 800).
> 
> 
> Does anyone have advise for better usb cables for the dac? Or any experience? I'm now using a standard external hdd usb cable. And I know that the audio quality isn't at all what this set is capable of. I listened to exactly this set (through CD, now through DAC) and there was so much soundstage, detail, openness etc.
> ...


I just added the Wireworld Starlight and I'm impressed that it did make a difference from the "well made" Radio Shack cable I was using. The 5v conductor is separated from the data lines and there is more body and finer details being heard. If you want to go to their Platinum cable, I think you'd be pretty happy there. I've not tried it as the dealer didn't have one to audition but the Starlight was a revelation to this non believer.


----------



## esn89

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> What is a sub/around $1000 amp that pairs well with the HD800? I recently switched from HD650 on my Little Dot MK III and found the 800 to be a bit too clinical, with sharp treble and not as much impact in the bass. What can I do to improve that?


 
   
  A good amp that's under that price is the v200 from Violectric.  I'm sure it has been posted and suggested before, but I really back this amp as it has proven itself to me in the base department to me.


----------



## palmfish

jd007 said:


> What is a sub/around $1000 amp that pairs well with the HD800? I recently switched from HD650 on my Little Dot MK III and found the 800 to be a bit too clinical, with sharp treble and not as much impact in the bass. What can I do to improve that?




You dont need a different amp. You need different headphones.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> You dont need a different amp. You need different headphones.


 
  My thought , but there would be always someone that claims their uber expensive source cure everything.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





			
				Jd007 said:
			
		

> What is a sub/around $1000 amp that pairs well with the HD800? I recently switched from HD650 on my Little Dot MK III and found the 800 to be a bit too clinical, with sharp treble and not as much impact in the bass. What can I do to improve that?


 
   
  Try a T1?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> Try a T1?


 
   
  +1
   
  highly recommended


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> My thought , but there would be always someone that claims their uber expensive source cure everything.


 
   
  The HD800 has weak points no amp or dac can fix but there certainly are some that synergize better than others.


----------



## palmfish

One persons "synergy" is another persons "distortion."


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> One persons "synergy" is another persons "distortion."


 

 yep, but there's nothing wrong in liking a "distortion".
  I  just wish, it would be more clear where people are putting their money.


----------



## palmfish

I never said there was anything wrong with it. All components introduce distortion.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> All components introduce distortion.


 
  Question is, if the distortion is  below the threshold of perception, and the source could be considered "transparent", or if  the distortion is there on purpose to please.


----------



## palmfish

It's all a matter of taste.

Most of the air, space, soundstage, attack, decay, etc. that we enjoy in recorded music is actually "distortion" added by the engineer in the studio. Very few recordings are "direct to disc" without some type of processing.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> One persons "synergy" is another persons "distortion."


 
   
  What I love about this argument is that somehow the 'better' gear is the distorted one.  Because as we all know regulated power supplies and class A bias... distortion /facepalm


----------



## palmfish

Who's arguing?

My point is that it's all a matter of taste. There is no "better."


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Who's arguing?
> 
> My point is that it's all a matter of taste. There is no "better."


 
   
  Couldn't agree more.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> It's all a matter of taste.
> 
> Most of the air, space, soundstage, attack, decay, etc. that we enjoy in recorded music is actually "distortion" added by the engineer in the studio. Very few recordings are "direct to disc" without some type of processing.


 
  Yes, but theoretically with a true transparent source, it should always sound same, and there's not any "taste" involved . In other words, a "transparent" source doesn't have a particular sound attached to it,  nor it's particularly tuned to compensate the deficiencies of a headphone.
  Given a list of objective spec, a transparent source could be defined (noise & distortion below a particular level, low jitter etc..).
  So it's not just a matter taste, either you get something transparent, or not. And the trick is that you don't have to shell out lot of money, to get something truly transparent.


----------



## jcx

well the Smyth Realizer with personal calibration, head angle tracking makes some very obvious changes in perception - puts the sound "outside of your head" - really does a great job of replicating "those speakers over there in this here room" sound, stereo or surround - and the HD800 and an O2 amp should be just fine getting the effect in addition to the Realizer processor
   
  there really isn't any need to be satisfied with playing on the margins, searching for subtle "synergy" among basically competent amps when such large improvement is setting on the shelf waiting


----------



## palmfish

I forget, how much does the Smyth Realizer cost?


----------



## silversurfer616

......but you save on the O2 amp....big time!


----------



## longbowbbs

palmfish said:


> I forget, how much does the Smyth Realizer cost?


$3500+


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> $3500+


 
   
  Sub-$3K if you exclude the bundled Stax set.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Yes, but theoretically with a true transparent source, it should always sound same, and there's not any "taste" involved . In other words, a "transparent" source doesn't have a particular sound attached to it,  nor it's particularly tuned to compensate the deficiencies of a headphone.
> Given a list of objective spec, a transparent source could be defined (noise & distortion below a particular level, low jitter etc..).
> So it's not just a matter taste, either you get something transparent, or not. And the trick is that you don't have to shell out lot of money, to get something truly transparent.


 
   
  Yes, theoretically, a absolutely transparent amplifier will have no signature of its own allowing the listener to hear only the signature of the source and the signature of the headphone. Unfortunately, nothing is that simple. There is no such thing as an absolutely transparent amplifier. No DAC is transparent and no headphone is "transparent" either.
   
  The fact is, amplifiers and headphones have an electrically synergystic relationship with each, a relationship ruled by ohms law. And even within SS amps, there are differences in resistance, voltage and current. Different amps drive different headphones differently. And so one can never have a truly transparent system.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Good point!


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> $3500+


 
   
  Case in point.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> There is no such thing as an absolutely transparent amplifier.


 
  The "objectivists" would tell you otherwise (especially, if you make a visit to hydrogenaudio).
   
  Quote: 





> No DAC is transparent and no headphone is "transparent" either.


 
  Dac don't have the mechanical problems encountered for a headphone, so actually a transparent source can exist, but not a headphone.
  Quote: 





> The fact is, amplifiers and headphones have an electrically synergystic relationship with each, a relationship ruled by ohms law.


 
   
  You have to avoid an impedance mismatch, that's the only "ohm" related thing I know. Especially the ouput impedance of the source, must be at least 8 times smaller, than the impedance of headphone.


----------



## palmfish

extrabigmehdi said:


> The "objectivists" would tell you otherwise (especially, if you make a visit to hydrogenaudio).
> 
> Dac don't have the mechanical problems encountered for a headphone, so actually a transparent source can exist, but not a headphone.
> 
> You have to avoid an impedance mismatch, that's the only "ohm" related thing I know. Especially the ouput impedance of the source, must be at least 8 times smaller, than the impedance of headphone.




The "8-to-1" rule (some say 10-to-1) is a fine rule of thumb, but it is an oversimplification. In fact, there are some who believe that it is not important with headphones at all - just loudspeakers. In any event, impedance matching (damping factor) is only one of several ways that an amplifier interacts with the transducer.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





jcx said:


> well the Smyth Realizer with personal calibration, head angle tracking makes some very obvious changes in perception - puts the sound "outside of your head" - really does a great job of replicating "those speakers over there in this here room" sound, stereo or surround - and the HD800 and an O2 amp should be just fine getting the effect in addition to the Realizer processor
> 
> there really isn't any need to be satisfied with playing on the margins, searching for subtle "synergy" among basically competent amps when such large improvement is setting on the shelf waiting


 
   
  $3500 for out of head soundstage isn't the top priority for me.  O2 has pretty good specs, I will have to test one in the future (shame about the connectors being on the front).  I'm too am not a fan of the concept of synergy, but in my mind the problem is that synergy often means covering up the real problem/s.  I have never sought to warm up the sound of my system, and at this point it sounds fine with the HD800, not grating or overly bright.


----------



## negura

Just a quick note on this thread. Lately I've been seriously veering more towards the LCD-3s than the HD800s. What an impact the recent arrival of my Taboo MK3 had for me - the HD800s are back. The Burson Conductor is good, but this is a fantastic HD800s amp. This amp is a few classes above the Burson Soloist in SQ.  It also pulls the feat of being simultaneously fantastic with the HD800s and the LCD-3s. And this is with an incomplete burn-in and stock tubes. I won't go into details yet as it's still too early, but I am very pleased. Some serious sleep was lost these days in this house.


----------



## jjshin23

I enjoy both for what they are. HD800 is incredible - enough said! LCD3 is so wonderfully warm and lush! It's like saying which child do you love more. Just enjoying both for what they are.


----------



## philo50

Quote: 





jjshin23 said:


> I enjoy both for what they are. HD800 is incredible - enough said! LCD3 is so wonderfully warm and lush! It's like saying which child do you love more. Just enjoying both for what they are.


 
  ^what he said......


----------



## negura

Quote: 





jjshin23 said:


> I enjoy both for what they are. HD800 is incredible - enough said! LCD3 is so wonderfully warm and lush! It's like saying which child do you love more. Just enjoying both for what they are.


 
   
  Ok, I'll admit it. I have failed.   I tried really hard to commit to just one of them and get some cash back to use towards other purchases. It's been going either way a couple of times, but never far enough. I know on this thread it's profanity level to even allude to selling the HD800s, but I just had to come clean.


----------



## jjshin23

negura said:


> Ok, I'll admit it. I have failed.   I tried really hard to commit to just one of them and get some cash back to use towards other purchases. It's been going either way a couple of times, but never far enough. I know on this thread it's profanity level to even allude to selling the HD800s, but I just had to come clean.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## FlySweep

jjshin23 said:


> HD800 is incredible.. LCD3 is so wonderfully warm and lush!  *It's like saying which child do you love more?*


 
   
  The one that costs less.


----------



## palmfish

The one that doesnt hurt when you wear it.


----------



## bearFNF

ROFL - Or the one that doesn't eat your secret stash of candy...oh err... we were talking about headphones weren't we.


----------



## wink

Keep both and start a collection...


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> The one that doesnt hurt when you wear it.


 
  We're not still talking about children are we..? No No clearly not  
   
  But yes, sound preferences aside. Comfort has to be the winning factor in this case.


----------



## fishski13

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> The one that costs less.


----------



## kazsud

Having a tough time here enjoying my hd800s and speaker setup. It's summer time and the apartment we are in doesn't have central air so this thing in the window makes noise as loud as a city bus...................  Not even once a week I can turn it off and enjoy them for a hour or so.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> Having a tough time here enjoying my hd800s and speaker setup. It's summer time and the apartment we are in doesn't have central air so this thing in the window makes noise as loud as a city bus...................  Not even once a week I can turn it off and enjoy them for a hour or so.


 

 Eh I have a similar problem. I have a noisy portable air conditioner, and it's not so easy to appreciate the high end sound of hd800 with background noise.
  A bit frustrating.


----------



## FlySweep

kazsud said:


> Having a tough time here enjoying my hd800s and speaker setup. It's summer time and the apartment we are in doesn't have central air so this thing in the window makes noise as loud as a city bus...................  Not even once a week I can turn it off and enjoy them for a hour or so.




LMAO.

First. World. Problems.


----------



## silversurfer616

Being winter here in NZ it is rather cold in my music room and houses usually don't have central heating.A hot cup of coffee/tea and some good music helps to enjoy the HD800(funnily enough,I do like to swap with the HD600 from time to time to readjust my ears/brain and then go back to the HD800 after a while).
And NZ is Third World but that's a German speaking!


----------



## Alexein Aner

silversurfer616 said:


> Being winter here in NZ it is rather cold in my music room and houses usually don't have central heating.A hot cup of coffee/tea and some good music helps to enjoy the HD800(funnily enough,[COLOR=FF00AA]I do like to swap with the HD600 from time to time to readjust my ears/brain and then go back to the HD800 after a while[/COLOR]).
> And NZ is Third World but that's a German speaking!




Can you please elaborate?


----------



## silversurfer616

After some days my hearing gets used to the HD800 and I need a change of "sound signature" to reappreciate the outstanding qualities of the HD800.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> After some days my hearing gets used to the HD800 and I need a change of "sound signature" to reappreciate the outstanding qualities of the HD800.


 
  I'd think  it's a good idea. I really  appreciate the hd800, when I switch from the hd595.
  And soon or later I  get used to the sound signature, and it fail to "surprise" after some times.


----------



## RedBull

silversurfer616 said:


> After some days my hearing gets used to the HD800 and I need a change of "sound signature" to reappreciate the outstanding qualities of the HD800.




I do that too, in my case, I swapped with hd650, lcd2.1 and many more. That's why more than 1 headphone is required


----------



## wink

Quote:RedBull 





> That's why more than 1 headphone is required


 
  Exactamundo


----------



## jkwanness

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Eh I have a similar problem. I have a noisy portable air conditioner, and it's not so easy to appreciate the high end sound of hd800 with background noise.
> A bit frustrating.


 
   
   
  Here in Asia(Malaysia) its impossible to live without A.C or a fan running with windows wide open.. The heat is ridiculous at times.. I had to buy the quietest fan i could find to better enjoy the HD800s.... First. World. Problems. indeed... lol


----------



## kazsud

If we had a ceiling fan it would buy me more time but I don't think the landlord would like that. This house was built in 1890 :/


----------



## Audio-Omega

Is HD800 brighter than Beyerdynamic T1 ?


----------



## muzic4life

Quote: 





audio-omega said:


> Is HD800 brighter than Beyerdynamic T1 ?


 
  if what u mean by treble...my answer is NO. The HD800 has a warmer sound (noticeable in the MIDS and the LOWS). I would say is a typical of Sennheiser house sound with a much refinement. The HIGHS is more smooth and less zizzy IMO, but the T1 is not harsh at all, it just more neutral and more cleaner sounding and that what makes the T1 sounded more treble than HD800. But the T1 has more body to sound, more meaty presentation IMO. The BASS i think HD800 has a softer and deeper, but the T1 has more quantity of it and hit harder. Both are quite good. I can not say which one better. Is more like to personal preference. But if you like a neutral sounding, extreme detail and best sound image...i think should try the T1. The HD800 has a wider soundstage, but i do feel sometimes they just to wide at a time, luckily, the HD800 has a bit of that warmer side, so the sound somehow is just so "unbelievable" relaxing. Listening to HD800 is like you are in real live concert, inside the building...while the the T1 is like more private, when you are in the studio room, just you, the singer and the band and you can clearly hear and picture every single sound that come out -- is very intimate sounding IMO.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





muzic4life said:


> if what u mean by treble...my answer is NO. The HD800 has a warmer sound (noticeable in the MIDS and the LOWS). I would say is a typical of Sennheiser house sound with a much refinement. The HIGHS is more smooth and less zizzy IMO, but the T1 is not harsh at all, it just more neutral and more cleaner sounding and that what makes the T1 sounded more treble than HD800. But the T1 has more body to sound, more meaty presentation IMO. The BASS i think HD800 has a softer and deeper, but the T1 has more quantity of it and hit harder. Both are quite good. I can not say which one better. Is more like to personal preference. But if you like a neutral sounding, extreme detail and best sound image...i think should try the T1. The HD800 has a wider soundstage, but i do feel sometimes they just to wide at a time, luckily, the HD800 has a bit of that warmer side, so the sound somehow is just so "unbelievable" relaxing. Listening to HD800 is like you are in real live concert, inside the building...while the the T1 is like more private, when you are in the studio room, just you, the singer and the band and you can clearly hear and picture every single sound that come out -- is very intimate sounding IMO.


 
   
  +1
   
  i love my T1 alot, but i like hd 800 alot too.


----------



## Kendoji

I received my new HD 800 just a couple hours ago - good times!  I was so excited I sneakily went home from work for a bit of a listen.  Getting the Sennheisers was a bit of a gamble for me as I generally prefer warm headphones (I love my HE-500s dearly).  But rather than getting another ortho, I thought the HD 800 would be a more interesting companion.  Having the possibility to enjoy quite different sound characteristics with more soundstage and detail appealed to me.
   
  I only listened for a bit today, but was impressed.  As expected, a lot of the heavy rock and metal I listen to is slightly grating on the HD 800.  But when I put on acoustic music I was instantly impressed with the detail and space.  Some rock, such as Rush, also sounded very good straight away.
   
  This is all through my Violectric stack, which I believe is regarded as a good match for the HD 800.  Can't wait for my brain to start burning in (and for my Decware Taboo MKIII to arrive).


----------



## drez

kendoji said:


> I received my new HD 800 just a couple hours ago - good times!  I was so excited I sneakily went home from work for a bit of a listen.  Getting the Sennheisers was a bit of a gamble for me as I generally prefer warm headphones (I love my HE-500s dearly).  But rather than getting another ortho, I thought the HD 800 would be a more interesting companion.  Having the possibility to enjoy quite different sound characteristics with more soundstage and detail appealed to me.
> 
> I only listened for a bit today, but was impressed.  As expected, a lot of the heavy rock and metal I listen to is slightly grating on the HD 800.  But when I put on acoustic music I was instantly impressed with the detail and space.  Some rock, such as Rush, also sounded very good straight away.
> 
> This is all through my Violectric stack, which I believe is regarded as a good match for the HD 800.  Can't wait for my brain to start burning in (and for my Decware Taboo MKIII to arrive).




At this point, with my mods and my system I can listen to badly recorded heavy metal and it sounds fine, cannibal corpse _make them suffer_ sounds super tight but not grating at all. They do wonders for really technical, fast metal genres. Doom metal also sounds great, not only due to the expansive soundstage, but also the fantastic dynamic range of the HD800. I have never looked back.

What I do have an issue with is MP3 recordings, MP3 makes the treble splashy, distorted and grating, [mp3] smears it all over the place. HD800's are transparent and neutral, if there are issues with recordings, file format or equipment choices they will let you know. My approach is to use this information to sort out the problems in my system, like most recently, cable routing and SPDIF cable length.


----------



## jsgraha

drez said:


> My approach is to use this information to sort out the problems in my system, like most recently, cable routing and SPDIF cable length.




Care to expand further your finding in regards to cable length...
Is it something to do with jitter?


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> I only listened for a bit today, but was impressed.  As expected, a lot of the heavy rock and metal I listen to is slightly grating on the HD 800.  But when I put on acoustic music I was instantly impressed with the detail and space.


 
   
  Well, I've been classifying the different metal music genres, once I've noticed that some metal stuff works better than other on the hd800 (or perhaps it's just my taste).
   
  Anyways, what about *Trash Metal  *on the Hd800  ?
  I don't think that trash metal is called this way because it's garbage, but according to wikipedia :
  "Thrash metal is a subgenre of heavy metal music, one of the extreme metal subgenres that is characterised by *high speed* riffing and *aggression*."
   
  So what do you think of trash metal stuff on the hd800 ?
   
  Here's a list of popular "trash metal" albums , if this can help:
  http://www.last.fm/tag/thrash%20metal/albums


----------



## negura

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Well, I've been classifying the different metal music genres, once I've noticed that some metal stuff works better than other on the hd800 (or perhaps it's just my taste).
> 
> Anyways, what about *Trash Metal  *on the Hd800  ?
> I don't think that trash metal is called this way because it's garbage, but according to wikipedia :
> ...


 
   
   
  Modern metal has a lot of sub-genres and the results with the HD800s vary. I will try to summarize a few of them in terms of synergy imo. Btw it's Thrash metal, with an added H. 
   
  - Heavy, thrash metal. Works well. Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth Iron Maiden etc.
  - Symphonic gothic/power metal. Excellent. A lot of classical elements which are a strength with the HD800s. Bands like Theatre of Tragedy, Nightwish, Therion, Sirenia, etc etc. Brilliant combination.
  - Symhonic black metal. Bands like Dimmu Borgir. A bit too much of a good thing with the HD800s with the details and on the aggressiveness front. Unless you like that combination, this is Audeze territory. 
  - Black, Death metal. Same as above, I find this is overkill with the HD800s. Too much attention to detail. To note is that really good black metal recordings are somewhat rare and the HD800s are not forgiving headphones. Some exceptions apply. Rotting Christ later albums are amazing on the HD800s.
  - Doom metal. Slower than the above, works great.
  - Progressive metal/rock. Anathema, Dream Theater, Tool. Great synergy. At least the first half of the song is slow and clean.  And they have songs with accoustical instruments and that's a HD800s strength.
   
  Also to be noted is that many bands oscillate accross genres so this is just to give an indication, and not trying to be too thorough.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





negura said:


> Modern metal has a lot of sub-genres and the results with the HD800s vary. I will try to summarize a few of them in terms of synergy imo. Btw it's Thrash metal, with an added H.
> 
> - Heavy, thrash metal. Works well. Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth Iron Maiden etc.
> - Symphonic gothic/power metal. Excellent. A lot of classical elements which are a strength with the HD800s. Bands like Theatre of Tragedy, Nightwish, Therion, Sirenia, etc etc. Brilliant combination.
> ...


 
   
  Well, I'm mostly interested by "extreme metal", which is mostly categorized in black, death, doom, thrash .
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_metal
   
  I  don't care much of "symphonic related" metal. Merely Apocalyptica, because I was interested in instrumental cover of metallica songs.
    
  Quote: 





> - Heavy, thrash metal. Works well. Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth Iron Maiden etc.


 
   

  I'd think that thrash metal, lacks the necessary energy/ aggressivity on the hd800.
  Listening to slayer "reign in blood" , it's almost sounds bland to me.
  Although I  don't appreciate particularly  the genre.
   
  Quote: 





> - Black, Death metal. Same as above, I find this way too agressive with the HD800s.


 
  Finally some aggressivity with the hd800, I  can't complain.
  I  like black metal especially, I'm less  familiar with death.
   
   Quote:


> - Doom metal. Slower than the above, works great.


 
  The less problematic genre on the hd800, unleess you listen to stuff that are too much loudness compressed.
  The album dopethrone, by electric wizzard which is supposed to be a classic, is just too painful to listen, because of the squashed dynamics.
   
  I like black + doom , with artists like Deinonychus.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> I received my new HD 800 just a couple hours ago - good times!  I was so excited I sneakily went home from work for a bit of a listen.  Getting the Sennheisers was a bit of a gamble for me as I generally prefer warm headphones (I love my HE-500s dearly).  But rather than getting another ortho, I thought the HD 800 would be a more interesting companion.  Having the possibility to enjoy quite different sound characteristics with more soundstage and detail appealed to me.
> 
> I only listened for a bit today, but was impressed.  As expected, a lot of the heavy rock and metal I listen to is slightly grating on the HD 800.  But when I put on acoustic music I was instantly impressed with the detail and space.  Some rock, such as Rush, also sounded very good straight away.
> 
> This is all through my Violectric stack, which I believe is regarded as a good match for the HD 800.  Can't wait for my brain to start burning in (and for my Decware Taboo MKIII to arrive).


 
   
  Glad you are enjoying your HD800. I got mine as a compliment to my HE-500 as well. All the weaknesses of the HE-500 are things that the HD800 excel with and vice versa. Both are phenomenal headphones, however I still prefer my HE-500 slightly over the HD800.
   
  Before anyone says its because of my source or cables or some other nonsense, the reasons I prefer the HE-500 are things that can't be added to the HD800 by changing source, at least not to the same extent. The lush, silky smooth mids, powerful impact in the bass and a laid-back treble presentation that does not lack in detail. I also like the intimate soundstage and highly layered presentation. I guess all that can be summed up as "the ortho sound".
   
  That said, I still enjoy my HD800 very much.


----------



## Kendoji

Yep I think I'll ultimately also end up preferring my HE-500 for most things, as I also love 'that sound', but we'll see. I listen to a lot of 70s rock which simply sounds amazing on the Hifimans. 

Listening a bit more to the HD 800s now, and really enjoying Ane Brun's debut album (Scandinavian singer songwriter). I can tell that these headphones are something special. If it's possible for anything to sound like 'German engineering', I think this must be it.  Such clarity and precision. Actually my entire rig is German right now (DAC and amp are both Violectric).

I also tried a bit more metal just now, and it didn't work very well. The new Vhol album, which I love dearly and which I consider to have very good production for a black metal oriented album, sounds much better on the HE-500. I'll give some doom a go this evening (Evoken and Esoteric are favourites of mine).

Edit: typo


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i prefer metal on my T1 or LCD2


----------



## Kendoji

Wow, some albums are sounding inexplicably and surprisingly amazing on the HD 800s. I'm listening to Goat 'World Music', last year's oddball psychedelic afro-rock masterpiece, which I always felt has slightly flat production, and it sounds fantastic on the Sennheiser. It's like a different album. I'm going to have a lot of fun with these headphones.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Wow, some albums are sounding inexplicably and surprisingly amazing on the HD 800s. I'm listening to Goat 'World Music', last year's oddball psychedelic afro-rock masterpiece, which I always felt has slightly flat production, and it sounds fantastic on the Sennheiser.


 
  Interesting music, but unfortunately low dynamic range (DR of 5, according to dynamic range meter).
  To save space on hard drive, and limit ear fatigue I tend to disregard any stuff with the DR below 6.


----------



## rawrster

I have the Mjolnir amp but wanted to see if there were any other options for SS balanced amps. I'm not interested in tubes but maybe if it's a hybrid amp I could consider it. Are there any good balanced amps in the 1k or so range? I don't want to spend too much since I'm moving towards Stax. If nothing else is out there I might end up selling my HD800 rig for a SR009.


----------



## Kendoji

Violectric V181?


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> I have the Mjolnir amp but wanted to see if there were any other options for SS balanced amps. I'm not interested in tubes but maybe if it's a hybrid amp I could consider it. Are there any good balanced amps in the 1k or so range? I don't want to spend too much since I'm moving towards Stax. If nothing else is out there I might end up selling my HD800 rig for a SR009.


 
  Well the Bryston at $1300...someone compared the two and found the Bryston 'better' than the MJ, but the MJ was definitely the better value at it's price point.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> Are there any good balanced amps in the 1k or so range?


 
   
  None.


----------



## silversurfer616

Had the Phoenix balanced but wasn't as good as the WA6 (in SE) or my vintage SX1010.
The Phoenix was too flat and couldn't produce the holographic soundstage which I love with the HD800.
Back now to SE all the way as balanced is not really worth the money/effort.....it is fun though to explore all possible avenues!
Some of the last comments sound as we need a different headphone for each genre/subgenre:rolleyes::rolleyes:


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> Had the Phoenix balanced but wasn't as good as the WA6 (in SE) or my vintage SX1010.
> The Phoenix was too flat and couldn't produce the holographic soundstage which I love with the HD800.
> Back now to SE all the way as balanced is not really worth the money/effort.....it is fun though to explore all possible avenues!
> *Some of the last comments sound as we need a different headphone for each genre/subgenre*:rolleyes:


 
  What? You mean you don't already?  I thought that was why we were here at this "support group" site...


----------



## silversurfer616

Have limited myself to the one and only genre....MUSIC!


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> Have limited myself to the one and only genre....MUSIC!


 
   
  Well, I don't know what you'd think of experimental stuff like this:
   




   
   
  I know some stuff that sound good on every headphone, though (Liquid Mind).


----------



## dukeskd

^WTH


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Well, I don't know what you'd think of experimental stuff like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The soundstage is amazing. I can hear every instrument like they're in the room with me


----------



## bearFNF

^^^  I hear dead people...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Also, ditto on the WTH...


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> ^^^  I hear dead people...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It sounds actually better in lossless (too much artefacts in the video,  hiding the "true  noize").
  When no music manage to calm my nerves, this kind of music works for me, by saturating the mind.
  Merzbow is a well known artist, at least for the "noize genre" (just look at the number of listeners at last.fm):
  http://www.last.fm/music/Merzbow


----------



## rawrster

Thanks for the replies. I think I'll start with selling the Mjolnir. I could also simplify things and just have my Anedio D1 and HD800 which also sounds quite good to me at least or go all out and sell everything for a SR009 to go along with my SR007. I'm not sure which way I'm going but either way my HD800 rig isn't doing anything right now.


----------



## rgs9200m

Why don't you keep your amp for now and try a pair of TH900s? I think that would be a logical step for maybe state-of-the-art phones. 
  Once you hear them, then maybe you can do an amp upgrade. The 009s can be a bit of an acquired taste (do some careful reading in the last few months here).


----------



## extrabigmehdi

"The hd800 is probably technically  the best headphone I've ever measured , or even listen to, they are better imaging than any other headphones I've heard , BUT, they are to me SOULLESS."  Tyll Hertsens  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Near 19h 34 of this video:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRyUOpFt1jI
   
  Then steve guttenberg suggest that a bottlehead crack change everything.


----------



## FlySweep

Well.. first hand experience (I have a speedballed, cap-upgraded Crack) tells me that the HD800 sounds INCREDIBLY soulFUL with the Crack. An absolutely wonderful combo, IMO (ensure you're using a TS 5998 in the output position, though).


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> Why don't you keep your amp for now and try a pair of TH900s?


 
   
  That would be very unlike an HD800   The 009 is your best bet since you're already half way there.  I think they are down in the $3400 range now in Japan.  Dump the HD800 rig, snag some 009, sell the 007 once they arrive... done and no money really spent.  Might actually be up from where you are now at the bank.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> "The hd800 is probably technically  the best headphone I've ever measured , or even listen to, they are better imaging than any other headphones I've heard , BUT, they are to me SOULLESS."  Tyll Hertsens
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Personally I think 'soul' or 'emotion' should come from the music not the  phones.
  IMO the HD800's do a very good job of letting the soul and emotion through unimpeded, if it's there in the first place.


----------



## muzic4life

nigeljames said:


> Personally I think 'soul' or 'emotion' should come from the music not the  phones.
> IMO the HD800's do a very good job of letting the soul and emotion through unimpeded, if it's there in the first place.




+1 
I agree with your words.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> *Personally I think 'soul' or 'emotion' should come from the music not the  phones.*
> IMO the HD800's do a very good job of letting the soul and emotion through unimpeded, if it's there in the first place.


 
   
  Yup.  I agree with this 100%


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Personally I think 'soul' or 'emotion' should come from the music not the  phones.


 
  I think that Tyll meant , is that the hd800 suck out the soul from the music ( I guess he tried the same musical stuff from one headphone to another),
  but ultimately the "soul"  or "emotion" is a combination of both headphone & music.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I think that Tyll meant , is that the hd800 suck out the soul from the music ( I guess he tried the same musical stuff from one headphone to another),
> but ultimately the "soul"  or "emotion" is a combination of both headphone & music.


 
   
  The HD800 is not a cold, distant headphone so I can't see how the HD800's could 'suck the soul' out of the music. I have found it so anyway.
   
  Maybe Tyll just likes added color to his music, and that's fair enough.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote:  





> Maybe Tyll just likes added color to his music, and that's fair enough.


 
  Actually the hd800 doesn't seduce everyone.
  I've noticed some debates, or people expressing distastes.
  Few relevant thread:
   
The HD800 divide
Why does the HD800 cause such polarizing opinions....
Got the HD800....the cynic is now speechless
A Twisted Review: HD800's Calculative, Clinical and Sterile Soul
   
  Quote: 





> I can't see how the HD800's could 'suck the soul' out of the music.


 
  Some people stated before (in this thread) that the hd800 is unbelievably relaxing to listen,
  but what is relaxing for some is actually boring for others (and this   trait, I  found it in  the lower hd595).


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Actually the hd800 doesn't seduce everyone.
> I've noticed some debates, or people expressing distastes.
> Few relevant thread:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Is not that the case for ALL headphones. Pick an headphone, any headphone, and then look for negative comments about that headphone, it won't take you long to find them.
   
  The only headphone that I have heard that 'sucked the soul' or put another way the 'life' out of music was the HD650's.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Is not that the case for ALL headphones. Pick an headphone, any headphone, and then look for negative comments about that headphone, it won't take you long to find them.


 
  You are probably right , but it's interesting to see if the negative comments follow a pattern. And for the hd800, "lack of soul' is part of the pattern, I'm not inventing anything,  nor Tyll.
  Now if you ask for a headphone without much negative comments, just look at the discontinued Denon line (D7000, D5000, D2000)
  It's seem that the only complain were some recessed mids, or problem with built quality, but most people find them enjoyable, if not the most enjoyable (well, this was before the introduction of some hifiman models, that got success too).
  In a local store, the D5000  was sold at almost the same price as the hd800; but if there wasn't a big problem with the price of the D5000, I  would have taken the D5000  without a doubt (especially if you consider, that I wanted to avoid anything that sound slightly similar to  my lower hd595, i.e between relaxing & boring).


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Is not that the case for ALL headphones. Pick an headphone, any headphone, and then look for negative comments about that headphone, it won't take you long to find them.
> 
> The only headphone that I have heard that 'sucked the soul' or put another way the 'life' out of music was the HD650's.


 

 Are you kidding? Funny how this hobby is so subjective because I personally think the HD 650 is the exact opposite. The luscious warmth of the 650s is so euphonic and musical it's almost as if there's a tiny James Brown in each ear cup whispering sweet nothings that entwine with the music.


----------



## RedBull

Why don't you sell your HD800 extrabig?


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> Why don't you keep your amp for now and try a pair of TH900s? I think that would be a logical step for maybe state-of-the-art phones.
> Once you hear them, then maybe you can do an amp upgrade. The 009s can be a bit of an acquired taste (do some careful reading in the last few months here).


 
  Don't worry I've heard the 009. No dynamics or orthos really interest me and the TH900 isn't for me. The logical step up from the HD800 would be the SR009 although not quite sure if I want to sell the HD800 yet.


----------



## RedBull

I find 800 and sr009 sound is quite different.  Don't you think?


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> Are you kidding? Funny how this hobby is so subjective because I personally think the HD 650 is the exact opposite. The luscious warmth of the 650s is so euphonic and musical it's almost as if there's a tiny James Brown in each ear cup whispering sweet nothings that entwine with the music.


 
   
  It's also slow, plodding, lifeless, lethargic and quite simply boring. For the music I listen to it was suicidal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But that's for another thread!


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Why don't you sell your HD800 extrabig?


 
  Not so obvious where I live; but I don't dislike them.
  Anyways, regarding my lasts posts,  I was surprised when I've seen Tyll stating in the video that he found the hd800 "soulless", while he has a  raving review at innerfidelity (the hd800 is even in his wall of fame). But somehow this make sense to me : lot of reviewers raving about the hd800;  but for everyday music enjoyment, it's not necessarily the hd800 they'd pick up first.


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> It's also slow, plodding, lifeless, lethargic and quite simply boring. For the music I listen to it was suicidal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 But that's just how it is isn't it? Just as this is an HD 800 appreciation thread, there are HD 800 depreciation threads. The headphone stays the same, it's our varying opinions that are different and that's why this is such a great hobby.


----------



## RedBull

I agree 800 is not so ideal for pop like Debbie Gibson and alike, but is *soulful* for Jazz, classical and MOVIES ...  listening to Band of Brothers last night was very immersive experience like I am in the middle of the war scene, fantastic.
  It's a very specialized headphone.
  I find 800 is very nice to listen soft not at loud level whereas LCD 2.1 I have to listen a bit louder.


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

I have to admit, after listening to my HD 800 with Anaxilus mod through an ECP Audio L-2, I think I've found its soul.
   
  Problem with the 800 is that it's somewhat clinical sounding, and assembling a rig that plays to its strengths is quite difficult.
   
  Anywho, I LOVE their sound now.


----------



## negura

I am also liking the HD800s better accross all genres with Tyll's version of the Anax mod and they can do with some downstream love to sound musical. The cream on the top for me was the Decware Taboo MK3 tube amplifier. I can't believe how much better than HD800s sound now from the first time I've heard them.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> Don't worry I've heard the 009. No dynamics or orthos really interest me and the TH900 isn't for me. The logical step up from the HD800 would be the SR009 although not quite sure if I want to sell the HD800 yet.


 
   
  If you're set on selling the Mjolnir you might want to go ahead with the sell.  There is getting ready to be an influx on those amps on the for sale market do to the new Statement Amp.  
   
  I would think so anyway.


----------



## ozz007

Mine sounds awesome with my WA7 FireFlies.


----------



## rgs9200m

Well, I'm not sure if you are gravitating away from the HD800s because you there is something missing in the sound for you. If so, the 009s may be more of the same problem,
  an underlying uneasiness. The Senn 800s are in the same sonic family to me as the Stax 009s (and very recording-dependent on the 009s).
   
  I sort of think that the SR007s you have affection for are more similar to the Fostex TH900 sound, just with some but not extremely more, defined images in an electrostatic way,
  but the TH900s have fine inner detail and rounded images. I think overall the TH900s are a step up, a modernization, of the overall combo of relaxation and detail of the SR007s.
  I am/was a longtime owner of all of these phones (just the SR007s are gone now-- Mark 1s from 1999 I bought new and had for 8 years with an 007t amp).
   
  I'm just trying to help here because I think you may be coming from the same place I was, and I'm really happy with the Fostexes (and some others).


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Personally I think 'soul' or 'emotion' should come from the music not the  phones.
> IMO the HD800's do a very good job of letting the soul and emotion through unimpeded, if it's there in the first place.


 
  I, (totally respectfully of course sir), completely disagree. Soul and inspiration (etc.) is the sole purpose of audiophile equipment.


----------



## FraGGleR

Quote: 





redbull said:


> I agree 800 is not so ideal for pop like Debbie Gibson and alike, but is *soulful* for Jazz, classical and MOVIES ...  listening to Band of Brothers last night was very immersive experience like I am in the middle of the war scene, fantastic.
> It's a very specialized headphone.
> I find 800 is very nice to listen soft not at loud level whereas LCD 2.1 I have to listen a bit louder.


 
  You touched on something that I have really enjoyed about the HD800s.  Because they are so detailed, they don't need to be played loudly.  For almost all of the other headphones I have tried, I sometimes found myself listening louder than I want because I was trying to get the details to come through better.


----------



## palmfish

rgs9200m said:


> I, (totally respectfully of course sir), completely disagree. Soul and inspiration (etc.) is the sole purpose of audiophile equipment.




I respectfully disagree. I believe the sole purpose of audio equipment is to reproduce the soul and inspiration of recorded music.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> I, (totally respectfully of course sir), completely disagree. Soul and inspiration (etc.) is the sole purpose of audiophile equipment.


 
  Try getting soul and inspiration without music playing on audiophile equipment..
   
  Equipment that has the cleanest window onto music that inspires you or has soul, has to be the best imo.


----------



## palmfish

+1

Its too easy to forget become obsessed /infatuated with the pursuit of gear and forget the real purpose of it. I get great pleasure from my HD800's but I also really enjoy my $35 Sansa/Koss setup. Amazing fidelity that fits in my pants pocket.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Try getting soul and inspiration without music playing on audiophile equipment..


 
   
  Hummmm.... Maybe this:


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> Well, I'm not sure if you are gravitating away from the HD800s because you there is something missing in the sound for you. If so, the 009s may be more of the same problem,
> an underlying uneasiness. The Senn 800s are in the same sonic family to me as the Stax 009s (and very recording-dependent on the 009s).
> 
> I sort of think that the SR007s you have affection for are more similar to the Fostex TH900 sound, just with some but not extremely more, defined images in an electrostatic way,
> ...


 
   
  The HD800 are great except simplifying things may be good for me. My rig right now consists of a separate dac and amp for each headphone. I think right now the amp will be sold when I find  a a buyer and go from there. I'm still on the edge in what to do but I might simplify things a bit and go with the D1 and HD800. None of the dynamics or orthos interest me that much and nothing interesting is being released. I wish I never heard the SR007 or SR009 or else I would be just find with them. The SR009 would still be a leap since it is expensive and also back ordered for a long time.


----------



## kazsud

LOL


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Hummmm.... Maybe this:


 
  Haha I love John Cage!


----------



## silversurfer616

Watched the above linked video which is very informative in general and I know that the HD800 can be "soulless".....when the rest of your chain is not up to the task,when your hearing is not educated yet to properly asses sound/headphones(one has to go through a long journey of subtle improvements over time)etc.
As I said before,I sometimes need to go back to other headphones to reset my hearing and appreciation of the HD800.
I went through a lot of headphones and got quickly bored with them because I knew there is something better out there to create that "eargasm",that WOW and JAW on the FLOOR etc.
It is that super clear sound with imaging I have never heard before and for my personal taste I add some hardware bass from a vintage Pioneer SX1010 and then the bass really rattles through your brain....without bleeding into the mids and so on....!
Listened to DAFT PUNK the other night and with closed eyes I thought I am in a club....not soulless but you have to work for the MOJO here.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> Watched the above linked video which is very informative in general and I know that the HD800 can be "soulless".....when the rest of your chain is not up to the task,when your hearing is not educated yet to properly asses sound/headphones(one has to go through a long journey of subtle improvements over time)etc.
> As I said before,I sometimes need to go back to other headphones to reset my hearing and appreciation of the HD800.
> I went through a lot of headphones and got quickly bored with them because I knew there is something better out there to create that "eargasm",that WOW and JAW on the FLOOR etc.
> It is that super clear sound with imaging I have never heard before and for my personal taste I add some hardware bass from a vintage Pioneer SX1010 and then the bass really rattles through your brain....without bleeding into the mids and so on....!
> Listened to DAFT PUNK the other night and with closed eyes I thought I am in a club....not soulless but you have to work for the MOJO here.


 
  Agreed. When I had a much lower end setup (MAD Ear+HD / PS Audio DLII), I preferred the T1s over the HD800s for many of the reasons given by folks here. But as Tyll has found with the L-2, I've had a very similar experience with the HeadAmp GS-X (and GS-X MKII). The HD800s are still here (and I own a SR-009) and the T1s are long gone.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Agreed. When I had a much lower end setup (MAD Ear+HD / PS Audio DLII), I preferred the T1s over the HD800s for many of the reasons given by folks here. But as Tyll has found with the L-2, I've had a very similar experience with the HeadAmp GS-X (and GS-X MKII). The HD800s are still here (and I own a SR-009) and the T1s are long gone.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


>


 
  Still like the T1s a whole lot and while they scale very well, they hit their "peak" with the WA2 I feel. And on the WA2, the HD800s and T1s were neck and neck. Then with the WA22 and now especially with the GS-X and better dacs (PS Audio DLIII --> Cary XCiter DAC --> W4S DAC-2), the differences opened up more significantly.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lol they really do feel neck and neck at times with the WA2. though i did notice with my new GEC tubes the hd 800s did show more improvement than the T1.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





tyll hertsens said:


> I have to admit, after listening to my HD 800 with Anaxilus mod through an ECP Audio L-2, I think I've found its soul.
> 
> Problem with the 800 is that it's somewhat clinical sounding, and assembling a rig that plays to its strengths is quite difficult.
> 
> Anywho, I LOVE their sound now.


 
  I'll take a shot at defining what soul in a headphone means.
  It's when the music just transmits something to my brain that makes the pleasure center light up. 
   
  The highs are unlimited and shine brightly and are even piercing but as they soar there is no pain and you just want more of them and you appreciate and are awed by the voice or instrument for the way it can magically generate such a soaring tone.
   
  The mids are forceful but do not shout or scream abusively, and you feel like you can see the musical object creating them. There is presence and directness and power in the mids that isn't overly sharp and just lets you accept the
  beauty of it and your brain just melts and accepts the character of what you are hearing without question, and you wouldn't have it any other way or change a thing. And they just swing and you are happily along for the ride.
   
  The bass has or at least hints at subterranean depth but does not lose control or sound lumpy, and gives an impression you get from a real thunderstorm that you feel somewhere in the back or your head or neck,
  and there is a satisfying resonance in the bass.
   
  Currently, my favorite headphones for soul are my Fostex TH900s, Audeze LCD3s,  Hifiman HE500s, and AT W3000ANVs.


----------



## givemevinyl

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> I'll take a shot at defining what soul in a headphone means.
> It's when the music just transmits something to my brain that makes the pleasure center light up.
> 
> The highs are unlimited and shine brightly and are even piercing but as they soar there is no pain and you just want more of them and you appreciate and are awed by the voice or instrument for the way it can magically generate such a soaring tone.
> ...


 
  In general music-listening terms, I agree with much of what you wrote.  But specifically to the idea of soul in music, I wouldn't necessarily try to tie it to aural elements (frequencies, instrumentation, soundstage, etc), which typically have concrete neural/psycho-acoustic or physiological stimuli.  Instead, I would simply (perhaps too simply) define soul in music as an emotional connection to the music itself regardless of the manner in which it's transmitted.  The emotional connection undoubtedly produces a concrete physical reaction of some sort (for me, I literally breathe out an audible sigh of satisfaction/relief; for others, it may be smiling/eye-closing/head-bobbing/etc), but it's due to the music not the sound quality.  I know this to be true for me because I have felt the soul of a particular song on high-end systems (vinyl and lossless) and on portable players (MP3) equally; I have also felt it on one day and not felt it on another day on the same high-end system using the same song, which perhaps is not consistent with the notion that it's all about the music, but it is consistent with the often inexplicable connection between music and emotion.


----------



## drez

jsgraha said:


> Care to expand further your finding in regards to cable length...
> Is it something to do with jitter?




I think spdif cable should be 1.5m minimum to avoid reflections affecting jitter performance. I have several cables of belden 1505a (friend of mine found this to measure the best out the cables he compared, it has insanely low capacitance) from bluejeancable and I seem to prefer the 1.5m cable. Problem is that it can pick up more noise so routing away from power cords becomes an issue. If you can I recommend buying several lengths to compare in your setup.



extrabigmehdi said:


> Well, I've been classifying the different metal music genres, once I've noticed that some metal stuff works better than other on the hd800 (or perhaps it's just my taste).
> 
> Anyways, what about *Trash Metal * on the Hd800  ?
> I don't think that trash metal is called this way because it's garbage, but according to wikipedia :
> ...




Main issue I seem to have is with recording specific overbearing treble smear on some recordings like swallow the sun. HD800 does nothing to hide it. I guess its also possible as you say that some recordings don't need a lot of detail retrieval to sound good. It's been a while since I've used a different headphone.


----------



## Stalker81598

I agree with what you are saying about soul in music, but I think the headphone plays a large part in it since this is how the music gets to your brain. As much as I love my HD800, I just don't feel that head-bobbing connection with the music to the same extent that I get with my HE-500.


----------



## ULUL

When I was testing some of the higher end headphones a few months back, I was very impressed by the HD800. But there's a question of system matching. Currently have a pair of HE-500 that is just wonderful with a solid state amp. Like it more than the HD650 due to its transparency, speed, and detail. But I really do like the soundstage on the HD800 along with its transparnecy, speed and detail.. But as an issue of budget, the HD800 would have to be matched with a more budget amp. A question: Does the Crack w. Speedball do the HD800 sufficient justice if I already am running the HE-500 with a well matched solid state amp in the $600 range? I know that the OTL and solid state have difference sound. My understanding is that the HE-500 is considered somewhat 'forgiving' while the HD800 is not. Thus, I wonder if the Crack/Speedball is considered sufficient by may or would it be woefully inadequate and require a much higher four figure $ tube amp? Thanks, UL


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> I, (totally respectfully of course sir), completely disagree. Soul and inspiration (etc.) is the sole purpose of audiophile equipment.


 
   
  Actually the sole purpose of audiophille equipment is to get closer to the original artists sound and intent while adding/removing as little as possible.
  Artificially adding 'soul' is not what audiophille gear should be doing. All IMO of course.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Artificially adding 'soul' is not what audiophille gear should be doing. All IMO of course.


 
   
  The problem is the HD800 swings the other way.  It removes soul.  More specifically, compared to other top shelf options, it's dry and distant.  It simply doesn't have that engagement factor that an LCD-3.  It's not completely void of life but side by side it is the deader option.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





solude said:


> The problem is the HD800 swings the other way.  It removes soul.  More specifically, compared to other top shelf options, it's dry and distant.  It simply doesn't have that engagement factor that an LCD-3.  It's not completely void of life but side by side it is the deader option.


 
   
  +1 No headphone is perfect, and that includes the HD800s. I have always found it can do with some fine tuning and help from the rest of the system to be musical.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





solude said:


> The problem is the HD800 swings the other way.  It removes soul.  More specifically, compared to other top shelf options, it's dry and distant.  It simply doesn't have that engagement factor that an LCD-3.  It's not completely void of life but side by side it is the deader option.


 
   
  Surprisingly I don't find the HD800's the slightest bit distant or lacking soul/emotion. I actually find them quite forward and exciting  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  As for being 'dry' well I have not really noticed that either.
  I feel it is very fast, precise and with great definition across the range, I would not call it dry, but then maybe I like 'dry' and dry seem natural to me.
  I have not heard the LCD3's but will say that my HD800's are slightly more engaging than my LCD2.2's most of the time.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





solude said:


> The problem is the HD800 swings the other way.  It removes soul.  More specifically, compared to other top shelf options, it's dry and distant.  It simply doesn't have that engagement factor that an LCD-3.  It's not completely void of life but side by side it is the deader option.


 





Front and center it time for the solude stand up comedy act and more amusement


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Surprisingly I don't find the HD800's the slightest bit distant or lacking soul/emotion. I actually find them quite forward and exciting
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  +1  agree with this one..


----------



## RedBull

solude said:


> The problem is the HD800 swings the other way.  It removes soul.  More specifically, compared to other top shelf options, it's dry and distant.  It simply doesn't have that *engagement* factor that an LCD-3.  It's not completely void of life but side by side it is the deader option.




You mean bass?

What if engagement, by other person means awsome soundstage and ambience detail?


----------



## MickeyVee

Interesting... my experience with the HD800 / HE500 was the complete opposite to the point that I sold my HE500.  I seemed to be more immersed / drawn into the music more with the HD800. As much as I really, really liked the HE500, every time I ran them side by side with the HD800, the HD800 won.  Maybe I'm just a one headphone kind of guy.
  Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> I agree with what you are saying about soul in music, but I think the headphone plays a large part in it since this is how the music gets to your brain. As much as I love my HD800, I just don't feel that head-bobbing connection with the music to the same extent that I get with my HE-500.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





solude said:


> The problem is the HD800 swings the other way.  It removes soul.  More specifically, compared to other top shelf options, it's dry and distant.  It simply doesn't have that engagement factor that an LCD-3.  It's not completely void of life but side by side it is the deader option.


 
   
  I think the point that was brought up before was that some genres of music gain more expression and life from a super revealing headphone like HD800, stax etc.  Other forms of music gain more from adding different forms of coloration, smoothness etc.  Say classical sounds boring and confused from LCD2 while music that has nothing to reveal eg electronic music probably sounds dead with HD800.  It depends whether there is anything worth revealing in the music/recording, or if it needs some MSG added to taste good.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote:  





> As much as I love my HD800, I just don't feel that head-bobbing connection with the music to the same extent that I get with my HE-500.


 
   
  I'm currently tempted to listen atmospheric & dark ambient stuff on the hd800, which is the opposite of "head-bobbing".
  Soulless music , for a soulless headphone, I think there's "synnergy" (ok, that's a bit exaggerated, I  just liked this formulation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





;  no need to correct what I  said, thanks).
   




   
   
  @Drez
  Quote: 





> I think the point that was brought up before was that some genres of music gain more expression and life from a super revealing headphone like HD800, stax etc.  Other forms of music gain more from adding different forms of coloration, smoothness etc.


 
   
  Ok a relevant thread would be:
 Songs that make your headphone WOOOOOW!!!  This thread is interesting, when people say which music they listen on which headphone.
   
  Probably each headphone have genre that works better than other. And imho the hd800 are not as "all rounder" as people claim here.  Even if you find a source that makes your hd800 "sound better", I'd bet they aren't  still that much "all rounder". This reminds me, how someone claimed how much he was happy with the zana deux .But when I dived in the review from headphonia, I still found out that the zana deux doesn't makes the hd800 better for fast paced electronic music.


----------



## palmfish

Headphones have a voice, but it isn't romance or pixie dust. The trick is finding the headphone that is voice to your personal preference and musical tastes. This is subjective.
   
  For me, I tried the HE-500 and LCD-2 and found them too mid-centric with not enough sparkle/energy in the treble and a certain thick tubbiness in the mids. This bothered me enough to move on. When I finally heard the HD800 with it's fantastic frequency balance, sense of speed and spaciousness, I knew it was the headphone for me.
   
  I personally don't get the "soul" thing. It's a transducer, that's all.


----------



## TenMoonsNorth

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Actually the sole purpose of audiophille equipment is to get closer to the original artists sound and intent while adding/removing as little as possible.
> Artificially adding 'soul' is not what audiophille gear should be doing. All IMO of course.


 

 This is true for some people and the best way to do this is use the equipment they were using when it was being produced. However, for others they place the enjoyment of music over the artists original intent and if they have to do some edits to get a sound they like then they will. They're two separate paths and some like the first and others like the second and all the paths in between.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





tenmoonsnorth said:


> This is true for some people and the best way to do this is use the equipment they were using when it was being produced. However, for others they place the enjoyment of music over the artists original intent and if they have to do some edits to get a sound they like then they will. They're two separate paths and some like the first and others like the second and all the paths in between.


 
   
  +1
  Couldn't care less what the engineer heard. As long as it sounds good when it gets to my ears


----------



## palmfish

Well, there's only one person who knows what the engineer heard, so its irrelevant.


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





solude said:


> The problem is the HD800 swings the other way.  It removes soul.  More specifically, compared to other top shelf options, it's dry and distant.  It simply doesn't have that engagement factor that an LCD-3.  It's not completely void of life but side by side it is the deader option.


 
  Yeah, sadly, I've kind of come to the same conclusion, although I wouldn't call it dry and distant, and for some reason I feel the need to hang on to it for the sometimes good times I have with it.
  I can make it liquid, I can appreciate all the information in it and how I hear things I never heard before, I can even get the bass to a firm foundation, 
  but versus the other phones, I want more intimacy, larger images, and no hint of treble pain from an over-the-top vocal. 
   
  I admit it, I guess I can't handle the truth.


----------



## muzic4life

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Surprisingly I don't find the HD800's the slightest bit distant or lacking soul/emotion. I actually find them quite forward and exciting
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  If distant related to depth i think they are just fine...but if width..i think to me sometimes performs a bit too wide (between singer and other instruments)...but for anything else..i much agree with you


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I personally don't get the "soul" thing. It's a transducer, that's all.


 
  Well some people just don't get the "soul"  thing, while for other it's obvious. Let's say that it's easier to explain what's right on the hd800, than what's wrong;
  so you end up  with "mystical words" like soulless , that are are as vague as possible. For some reason , the hd800 have a presentation that doesn't  necessarily trigger the pleasure.
   
  I'm personally more happy with my last eq with hd800;  you'd think that adding small amounts,  like  2 db here and there doesn't have much impact, but actually it does. And this is within the variations, that sennheiser show in the measurements sent to people. Perhaps the hd800 are relatively neutral, but  the little variations on freq response , doesn't please everyone (add to this the lack of aggression). And off course, it could be neutral that doesn't please.
   
  I've noticed something interesting when comparing  the srh940, sony mdr-v6 and mdr-z1000 : they all have a peak near 9k-10k, and a hole before. The sony mdr-v6 is relatively popular, and I  noticed that in the "superior" model, the mdr-z1000 , that the hole and peak  are even more exaggerated (probably the engineers thought that it would please more). Similarly the srh940 that I  like, have that 9k peak. The hd800 doesn't have kind of well marked peak near 9k, perhaps this affect my taste . But again, it only takes  for me a 2 db variation with eq, to make thing more or less enjoyable.
   

   
  And finally perhaps a relevant thread would be
Your favourite "not the best" headphones?
  You'd see people favoring some headphones, while knowing they are not the "best" in their collection.


----------



## Kyle 491

Quote: 





solude said:


> The problem is the HD800 swings the other way.


 
   
  Headphones don't have sexual preference. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Or is this a subtle assertion of their high-pitched, effeminate nature?


----------



## LugBug1

Just goes to show how subjective this hobby is...! 
   
  The words 'dry' and 'distant' are the last words I'd use to describe the HD800's.. I find them very intimate with certain music and the fullness is just about right without being 'boggy' (Lcd2..) imaging is quite literally stupendous for a headphone and the realness is remarkable with genres such as world music and classical. Instruments sound real without any artificial weight. Yes the very top of the treble may sparkle more than reality but I'd rather have it that way than the other way round. Nothing is perfect... But for my personal preference its pretty much it 
   
  Plus!! 
   
  Erm.. forgot what I was gonna say.,  ? Nope its gone.


----------



## negura

I didn't find the LCD-2s to be in the same league of SQ with the HD800s, while the LCD-3 are. Imo the LCD-2s get obliterated by the HD800s on any decent downstream, even if they sound so differently. The LCD-3s are euphonic and put up much tougher competition and I prefer the LCD-3s treble to that of the HD800s, as it is detailed and airy enough but never tiring. That said the HD800s have clearly better soundstaging and imaging.
   
  Neither of these headphone is perfect and can be fined tuned to preferences through the rest of the downstream (be it amp/dac matching etc, cables, tubes, what has you).


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





negura said:


> I didn't find the LCD-2s to be in the same league of SQ with the HD800s, while the LCD-3 are. Imo the LCD-2s get obliterated by the HD800s on any decent downstream, even if they sound so differently. That said the HD800s have clearly better soundstaging and imaging.


 
   
  Agreed though I would add that while the HD800 imaging is awesome, shoulder check good, in fact... it's not as focused as the LCD-3.  Instruments are larger, take up more space, have softer edges... but also play on a larger stage.    Which you prefer comes down to preference.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





negura said:


> I didn't find the LCD-2s to be in the same league of SQ with the HD800s, while the LCD-3 are. Imo the LCD-2s get obliterated by the HD800s on any decent downstream, even if they sound so differently. The LCD-3s are euphonic and put up much tougher competition and I prefer the LCD-3s treble to that of the HD800s, as it is detailed and airy enough but never tiring. That said the HD800s have clearly better soundstaging and imaging.
> 
> Neither of these headphone is perfect and can be fined tuned to preferences through the rest of the downstream (be it amp/dac matching etc, cables, tubes, what has you).


 
   
   
  I agree with this.  
   
  However, I'm a treble head I guess, thus I prefer the HD800s treble over the LCD-3s..  The HD800s are pretty darn focused to me, and while I also agree the instruments are larger and take up more space with the LCD-3s.  The HD800s instruments have their "own" space with more air around them.  Where on the LCD-3s the space of the instruments don't separate as well.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *preproman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I agree with this.
> 
> However, I'm a treble head I guess, thus I prefer the HD800s treble over the LCD-3s..  The HD800s are pretty darn focused to me, and while I also agree the instruments are larger and take up more space with the LCD-3s.  The HD800s instruments have their "own" space with more air around them.  Where on the LCD-3s the space of the instruments don't separate as well.


 
   
  To make things even more fun, I am starting to firmly believe you can't have one system tuned in just one way that is just as "perfect" of a match with both the LCD-3s and the HD800s at the same time. Can you find a very good compromise to work with both really nicely? Sure. But anything above that no. The closest I got to was either swapping a couple of cables & interfaces around or more recently coming up with a different set of tubes in the amplifier. I obviously prefer the latter.
   
  Everytime I use just one of these headphone for any extended amount of time, I start tuning things and a couple of weeks later the other flagship sounds a bit off. The main reason for this is the LCD-3s and HD800s are so complementary, what is a strength for one is a weakness for the other. But I accept other people may be happy without pushing for the final bits of synergy.


----------



## Mambosenior

Some of us can't have only one system, period. I've got so much schiit that I am too lazy to sell (spouse is now applying pressure) that I wind up "inventing" systems. (So far, the toilet is the only room music-free.)


----------



## ULUL

Quote: 





ulul said:


> When I was testing some of the higher end headphones a few months back, I was very impressed by the HD800. But there's a question of system matching. Currently have a pair of HE-500 that is just wonderful with a solid state amp. Like it more than the HD650 due to its transparency, speed, and detail. But I really do like the soundstage on the HD800 along with its transparnecy, speed and detail.. But as an issue of budget, the HD800 would have to be matched with a more budget amp. A question: Does the Crack w. Speedball do the HD800 sufficient justice if I already am running the HE-500 with a well matched solid state amp in the $600 range? I know that the OTL and solid state have difference sound. My understanding is that the HE-500 is considered somewhat 'forgiving' while the HD800 is not. Thus, I wonder if the Crack/Speedball is considered sufficient by may or would it be woefully inadequate and require a much higher four figure $ tube amp? Thanks, UL


 
   
  Love to have some informed comments if I may. 
   
  Thanks
  UL


----------



## extrabigmehdi

@ULUL
  There are raving comments regarding bottlehead crack + hd800 combination , it's even on the page of the seller:
"With both the HD650 and the HD800, the Crack delivers one of the cleanest sound, the blackest background, the widest and deepest soundstage I’ve heard on any amp below the $1K mark." 
Headfonia Mike
  Now off course  you can always find some head-fier that doesn't like the combination (especially a head-fier that takes pride in owning a uber expensive source, I guess).
  http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php/products/crack-otl-headphone-amplifier-kit


----------



## palmfish

I honestly dont understand how the HD800 can sound good from an OTL amp. The high Z output must wreak havoc with the HD800's impedance swings.


----------



## BournePerfect

The ZDSE says 'hi'.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I honestly dont understand how the HD800 can sound good from an OTL amp. The high Z output must wreak havoc with the HD800's impedance swings.


 
   
  The current best wisdom, as far as I can tell and I'ma going to look into it more, is that the HD 800 needs something like 43 Ohms output impedance to sound best.
   
  Yes...I'm spreading rumors, but I think this is a good one.


----------



## MacedonianHero

tyll hertsens said:


> The current best wisdom, as far as I can tell and I'ma going to look into it more, is that the HD 800 needs something like 43 Ohms output impedance to sound best.
> 
> Yes...I'm spreading rumors, but I think this is a good one.




Maybe a link to your excellent dt880 32/250/600 ohm article that explained damping factor so very well?


----------



## MacedonianHero

macedonianhero said:


> Maybe a link to your excellent dt880 32/250/600 ohm article that explained damping factor so very well?




Never mind, found it:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones


----------



## fishski13

i had limited success with adding output impedance with the HD800.  it all kind of depends.  i think i posted this elsewhere here but will again since like Tyll's i think it's a good read: http://www.mediafire.com/view/?82kf0r5kdckdcer .


----------



## Mikey99

tyll hertsens said:


> The current best wisdom, as far as I can tell and I'ma going to look into it more, is that the HD 800 needs something like 43 Ohms output impedance to sound best.
> 
> Yes...I'm spreading rumors, but I think this is a good one.


I believe 43 Ohms is the output impedance of the Sennheiser HDVD800 amplifier. Probably the source of the "rumours". Presumably they chose this output impedance for a reason.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

macedonianhero said:


> Never mind, found it:
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones




The article doesn't explain the disadvantage of "overdamping" (i.e using a big damping factor) for the headphones. 

Anyway if my source is supposed to "overdamp", the easy fix would be to add a resistance such a like volume controller.
I'm a cable skeptic, but using my cheap koss vc20 actually affect the sound probably because of the big resistance or impedance (the resistance is adjustable, it's how the volume control works)

EDIT: just tried to plug my koss vc20, between, the hd800 & source, it does as I've expected tame the treble, however I find that sound quality is not much impacted, I'm wondering if doesn't sound better than using an eq (I must sleep, I will try again later).
Now off course using the vc20 looks lame, I must use two headphone adaptor.

EDIT2: frankly I don't know hich is best, taming with a resistance, or using an eq. At least my eq was tweaked (more bass impact), and it sound more dry with the resistance .


So this might be the secret finally of the so hard to drive hd800, a big damping factor, but not too big ? :rolleyes:


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Never mind, found it:
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones


 
   
  Excellent article and very informative.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> The ZDSE says 'hi'.
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  The ZD doesn't really count in the OTL argument since since the beauty of the *6C33C-B is a solid state low output impedance in exchange for also heating small rooms *
   
*Normally though, OTL and vintage receivers have a high output impedance which in turn acts like a bass boost for the HD800.*


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





solude said:


> The ZD doesn't really count in the OTL argument since since the beauty of the *6C33C-B is a solid state low output impedance in exchange for also heating small rooms *
> 
> *Normally though, OTL and vintage receivers have a high output impedance which in turn acts like a bass boost for the HD800.*


 
   
  Agreed. The ZDSE is a unique OTL amp in this regard. I was aware of its low output impedance, but I didn't know it was because of its 6C33C-B tubes. When I realized how hot my small room becomes with the ZDSE, especially during summertime, I bought an extra fan and brought it into my room.


----------



## Solude

There are other ways to skin a cat, Atma Sphere goes full circlotron to get their OTL down but that is more for the HE-6 crowd.


----------



## RedBull

mambosenior said:


> Some of us can't have only one system, period. I've got so much schiit that I am too lazy to sell (spouse is now applying pressure) that I wind up "inventing" systems. (So far, the toilet is the only room music-free.)




+1 One system is impossible.


----------



## RedBull

I am surprise nobody is discussing DNA Sonnet with hd800. I thought that is one if the best for 800?


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Stumbled on this statement from wikipedia:
   
  "Tube amplifiers typically have much lower feedback ratios, and in any case almost always have output transformers that limit how low the output impedance can be. *Their lower damping factors are one of the reasons many audiophiles prefer tube amplifiers*. "
   
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_factor
   
  This si in reaction of Tyll that suggested that an output impedance for the hdvd800 of 43 ohm , might be a good thing, and his article that suggest that there's also the problem of "overdamping" for headphones (although the analogy with the pendulum is a bit confusing).


----------



## songmic

With the exclusion of certain electrostatic amps, does anyone here know any OTL tube headphone amplifier that is balanced? By balanced, I don't mean just having XLR outputs (the XLR outputs of amps such as DNA Sonett, Decware Taboo or Liquid Glass are in fact single-ended outputs wired as XLR), I mean amps that are really balanced and therefore would sonically benefit over their single-ended 1/4" outputs. I'm asking this because I've never seen any. Perhaps the inherent design of an OTL tube amp makes it impossible to go balanced?


----------



## palmfish

extrabigmehdi said:


> Stumbled on this statement from wikipedia:
> 
> "Tube amplifiers typically have much lower feedback ratios, and in any case almost always have output transformers that limit how low the output impedance can be. *Their lower damping factors are one of the reasons many audiophiles prefer tube amplifiers*. "




I was asking specifically about OTL amplifiers, not tube amplifiers as a whole...


----------



## Solude

Only makes it that much more about higher output impedance and lower dampening,


----------



## Solude

Only makes it that much more about higher output impedance and lower dampening,


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





solude said:


> The ZD doesn't really count in the OTL argument since since the beauty of the *6C33C-B is a solid state low output impedance in exchange for also heating small rooms *
> 
> *Normally though, OTL and vintage receivers have a high output impedance which in turn acts like a bass boost for the HD800.*


 
   
  Quote: 





songmic said:


> Agreed. The ZDSE is a unique OTL amp in this regard. I was aware of its low output impedance, but I didn't know it was because of its 6C33C-B tubes. When I realized how hot my small room becomes with the ZDSE, especially during summertime, I bought an extra fan and brought it into my room.


 
  I'm well aware of the ZDSE's unique pedigree in the OTL world-but I primarily used the ZDSE/HD800 on the high output (+12 iirc).
   
  -Daniel
   
  edit: I guess +12 is still considered 'low' in the OTL world...


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





redbull said:


> I am surprise nobody is discussing DNA Sonnet with hd800. I thought that is one if the best for 800?


 
  At it's price point-yes.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Xelor

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Surprisingly I don't find the HD800's the slightest bit distant or lacking soul/emotion. I actually find them quite forward and exciting
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  +1, I much prefer HD800 to the LCD-2.2. LCD-3 are a different beast and more engaging then the LCD2.2. I love both LCD-3 and HD800, I have not a preference between the two. Just different flavor.


----------



## RedBull

bourneperfect said:


> At it's price point-yes.
> 
> -Daniel




Hmm, so ZDSE and gsx mk2 are better.

How about other DNA higher end products? Like Sonnet 2 or Stratus, no fans?


----------



## Solude

I believe the Stratus is up to 11 fans, would have to check the thread again.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

S T R A T U S ! ! !


----------



## Eee Pee

I very much enjoy my Sonett and HD800s.  It's even cheaper now at $1000.  I got it at $1200.
   
  Not many Stratus owners, 11 could be correct.  Even less Sonett 2 owners out there.
   
  I have Sonett #60, but there doesn't seem to be that many of us.  And I like the blue, I see it as part artwork.  And I like the HD 800.
   
  But ultimately, I haven't heard many others.  Even so, I won't sell either one.  Call it first love, or simply, HAPPINESS.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Hmm, so ZDSE and gsx mk2 are better.
> 
> How about other DNA higher end products? Like Sonnet 2 or Stratus, no fans?


 
  I'd look into the EC 2A3x4 if your wallet is up to it. Should be a significant jump over the BA and removes the interstage cap, and uses the BA's AC heater. There's a good write up somewhere of the differences between it and the Stratus in regards to the HD800...I'll try and dig them up...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I'd look into the EC 2A3x4 if your wallet is up to it. Should be a significant jump over the BA and removes the interstage cap, and uses the BA's AC heater. There's a good write up somewhere of the differences between it and the Stratus in regards to the HD800...I'll try and dig them up...
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  I was interested in the EC 2A3x4 myself.  How much?


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I was interested in the EC 2A3x4 myself.  How much?


 
   
  Only 10 of them for the first batch I believe, then price will go up. Contact Craig-last I heard it was roughly $35-3800 on the initial run. Tubes included AFAIK.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

Here's a PM of Purrin's he posted on the 'other' site. Hope he doesn't mind me posting it here, but gets into good detail about the 2A3x4 vs Stratus differences that I felt helpful. As usual, EC amps are more ss sounding with ridiculous soundstaging, microdynamics, speed, and detail. Here ya go:
   
   

_The main difference between the EC 2A3 and Stratus is how "tubey" the sound is. The DNA Stratus sounds more like a traditional tube amp. It has a oodles of inner warmth, very dynamic, very good detail and very good micro-dynamics. The sound is lush, but not overly so as to impact other positive aspects such as clarity, articulation, bite, or excitement. It's an ideal balance between tube and non-tube. As others have commented, it works well with a very wide variety of headphones. I loved the DNA Stratus with headphones which tended to have an edgier treble. This includes HD800, TH900, Grado, Sony R10, etc. The DNA Stratus is also more intimate sounding than the EC 2A3. Think smokey jazz club. The one slight negative of the Stratus is the bass is a bit mushy. This can be remedied to a large extent with the EML 2A3 Mesh Plates, but it's still there to a small extent. In any event, I still love the Stratus with the Chinese tubes. And I actually like Donald's signature blue color (although some people hate it.)
  
 The EC 2A3 is less tubey than the Stratus. Not quite solid-state as it still maintains a certain inner warmth inherent in the 2A3 tube, but more solid-state than the DNA Stratus. The 40kHz AC heater gets it very very close to the BA. The BA is slightly more detailed than the new EC 2A3 because of the BA's partial silver transformers. It's very very close and probably not noticeable unless you a have top notch source (which I don't think will be a problem for you). The staging and openness of the 2A3 is amazing - as good as the BA. The EC 2A3 sounds more "grand" whereas the Stratus more intimate. The bass control on the 2A3 is much better too (especially given a recent PS change to a stiffer diode). Almost as good as the best solid-state. The downside of the EC with something like the HD800 is that a little bit more tube rolling and/or HD800 modding may be necessary (methicks the stock HD800 is too bright and dry.) Ultimately, I think it comes down to precision/openness (2A3) vs. intimacy/lushness (Stratus). I want to stress that the DNA Stratus has nowhere near the extreme warmth, lushness, or syrup which I have heard with other tube amps such as the Carys, Lebens, and even the Woos.
  
 The EC 2A3x4 will be more similar in sound to the 2A3. So if you don't like the EC sound and prefer something slightly lusher, it's not going to matter. I haven't heard the production unit, only evolving prototypes. But the the EC x4 should destroy the BA. Although the x4 uses larger OPTs more suitable for HE speakers or power hungry orthos (larger is not necessarily better - we want OPTs to be sized accordingly to the transducers as much as possible), the OPTs will remain partial silver on the secondaries. The main improvement on the x4 is the elimination of an interstage cap. This provides a HUGE improvement in speed, clarity, layering, and detail. Especially detail and layering. Literally, I've heard "s***" I've never heard before (and this hasn't happened in a LONG LONG time for me since I've pretty much heard it all.) Doubling the tubes also helps with power/current. I think Craig realized that the BA's power wasn't cutting anymore with some of the power hungry orthos out there. I had a prototype/test unit x4 (using similar 45 tubes) in my house, and I am missing it terribly. I have calls to Craig every week to see when the x4 will be delivered. It's easily worth it. I think Craig will be providing Psvane tubes included in the price. Best to put your name on the reservation list because I know the entry level price < $4000 including tubes will not last past the initial run._
   
   
_ _
  edit: stock tubes will probably end up being Electro Harmonix...
   
   
   
   
   
  -Daniel


----------



## zigy626

I am running my HD800 from the Lehmann Black Cube Liner. *During the Sennheiser HD800 launch event in Singapore, the Lehmann Black Cube Linear amplifier was chosen to be the “official” amplifier for auditioning sessions. But I am missing the bass. Listening to some songs through speakers and then through the HD800 the difference is immediately perceptible. Everything is so tame on the HD800, there is no fun factor. I listened to Sennheiser Amperior and those were fun headphones. I wish the HD800 had the same punchy bass as the Amperior. The bass on HD800 is very thin. Just one thing its lacking in my opinion. Technically I believe it to be the best headphone but not a fun headphone.  *


----------



## Eee Pee

That's good stuff BP, thanks for sharing, even if PMs are meant to be private.  Purrin has great insight.
   
  Thanks Purrin.
   
  And all that actually makes me want the Stratus even more than before.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Hope he doesn't mind me posting it here, but gets into good detail about the 2A3x4 vs Stratus differences that I felt helpful.


 
   
   
  Quick correction, the comparison is between the Stratus and current production run 2A3 w/ high freq heaters.  The 2A3x4, Leviathon is a whole other beast.  Current 2A3 is $2800 and Leviathon I thought was ~$3500 plus transformers... which could drag it into the $5000+ range depending on your options.  Could be wrong about the Levi it's been a while since I browsed the thread once the price tag was announced, my jaw dropped and my wallet curled up into fetal position, prompting me to run, run away


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> I am running my HD800 from the Lehmann Black Cube Liner. *During the Sennheiser HD800 launch event in Singapore, the Lehmann Black Cube Linear amplifier was chosen to be the “official” amplifier for auditioning sessions. But I am missing the bass. Listening to some songs through speakers and then through the HD800 the difference is immediately perceptible. Everything is so tame on the HD800, there is no fun factor. I listened to Sennheiser Amperior and those were fun headphones. I wish the HD800 had the same punchy bass as the Amperior. The bass on HD800 is very thin. Just one thing its lacking in my opinion. Technically I believe it to be the best headphone but not a fun headphone.  *


 
  I don't like much the bass of the hd25 (similar to amperior) at all, I find it somehow artificial and monotonous.
  It's funny how the hd25 and hd800 are completely opposite:
  hd25 : muddy & narrowest soundstage I've ever heard. Supposed "fun" to listen.
  Hd800: clean & widest soundstage. Motto is "do no fun".
   
  I like the bass of hd800 , when I hear for instance a door banging, I feel the vibration on head as if it was the real thing.
  I don't need to make the bass more punchy, but the sub bass more present.
  I use an eq for this, and it's important that it's linear phase, or you loose punchiness.
   
  Here's the most "trivial" eq solution I found , that allows to combine both minimum phase & linear phase :
  it's called plpareq. It's too expensive, but for the sake of the explanation,
  you see in the screenshot that the option "PL" (linear phase) is checked for the low frequencies,  while I  favor minimum phase for the others.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I don't like much the bass of the hd25 (similar to amperior) at all, I find it somehow artificial and monotonous.
> It's funny how the hd25 and hd800 are completely opposite:
> hd25 : muddy & narrowest soundstage I've ever heard. Supposed "fun" to listen.
> Hd800: clean & widest soundstage. Motto is "do no fun".
> ...


 
  Thanks for your input. WOW $600 is sure expensive. I agree with the narrow soundstage on Amperior but it was not muddy as compared it to the B&W P5.


----------



## kazsud

I heard the strattus w/ it's stock tubes which sounded good and w/ some other expensive tubes that sounded to bright for the hd800s. I'm at a point where i need to figure out what my next upgrade is which leads me to this question to you guys. Is the zana duex better than the hdvd800 and stratus? I already have a dac-100 which I will never get rid of unless I get a dad-80 but I'm not happy w/ the amp section on it. I love the bass that the hdvd800 has but can't say much more because it was fresh out the box and i've never heard the zana duex.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> Excellent article and very informative.


 
  No worries. I found it a great explanation too.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





solude said:


> Quick correction, the comparison is between the Stratus and current production run 2A3 w/ high freq heaters.  The 2A3x4, Leviathon is a whole other beast.  Current 2A3 is $2800 and Leviathon I thought was ~$3500 plus transformers... which could drag it into the $5000+ range depending on your options.  Could be wrong about the Levi it's been a while since I browsed the thread once the price tag was announced, my jaw dropped and my wallet curled up into fetal position, prompting me to run, run away


 
  Yes it's clear that the compaison is between the original 2A3 with the BA AC heaters, making it similar (but not there yet) to what the 2A3x4 will be. The Levi is actually $3800+ transformers (I'm one of maybe 5 who opted in early for some Tangos). Reality is-the 2A3x4 will get scarily close to the Levi in my estimation, and essentially came about as an offshoot of the Leviathan project. Not sure how many of the original 10 EC 2A3x4's are called for yet, but email Craig before they are gone at that initial price point.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> I am running my HD800 from the Lehmann Black Cube Liner. *During the Sennheiser HD800 launch event in Singapore, the Lehmann Black Cube Linear amplifier was chosen to be the “official” amplifier for auditioning sessions. But I am missing the bass. Listening to some songs through speakers and then through the HD800 the difference is immediately perceptible. Everything is so tame on the HD800, there is no fun factor. I listened to Sennheiser Amperior and those were fun headphones. I wish the HD800 had the same punchy bass as the Amperior. The bass on HD800 is very thin. Just one thing its lacking in my opinion. Technically I believe it to be the best headphone but not a fun headphone.  *


 
   
  With the right amp the bass on the HD800's just rocks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  If you ever come up to Birmingham let me know and maybe you could have a listen.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Reality is-the 2A3x4 will get scarily close to the Levi in my estimation, and essentially came about as an offshoot of the Leviathan project.


 
   
  Thanks for this.  I was under the impression it was the same product, just new name.


----------



## RedBull

nigeljames said:


> With the right amp the bass on the HD800's just rocks :basshead:
> 
> If you ever come up to Birmingham let me know and maybe you could have a listen.




Totally agree. With Leben, the bass is at the same level as lcd2.1


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> With the right amp the bass on the HD800's just rocks


 
   
  The HD800 has great bass quality, but leaves more bass quantity to be desired.


----------



## preproman

I'm far from a bass head.  But the HD800s on the GS-X mk2 provides the right amount of bass for me.  I don't desire more in any of my listening sessions.  I'll get "BASS" fatigue at times with the LCD-3s and the TH900s.  The HD800s are just right and the HE-6 are a cut above just right = perfect.  To my ears..


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





songmic said:


> The HD800 has great bass quality, but leaves more bass quantity to be desired.


 

 And  that's whole point. Most people don't enjoy "quality bass", when there's  not enough.
  I'd even say that most people favor quantity over quality in the bass region.
  The srh940 is supposed to have a more "punchy bass" than the srh840, but people prefer the srh840 because it has more bass.
  From what I've understood the bass of XB500 is not exactely punchy, but some bass head like it.


----------



## Solude

A lot of it us going to come down to listening volume.  At higher volume the amount of bass needed drops.  From the HE-6 thread I get the impression prep listens at quite high levels.
   
  For an example we can compare apples to apples... with the HD800/GS-X mk2/PWD2, I listened on low gain right at the 12 o'clock mark.  That was high mark, usually though I'd listen 2-4 notches down from there.  In that arrangement where do you fall prep?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> A lot of it us going to come down to listening volume.  At higher volume the amount of bass needed drops.  From the HE-6 thread I get the impression prep listens at quite high levels.
> 
> For an example we can compare apples to apples... with the HD800/GS-X mk2/PWD2, I listened on low gain right at the 12 o'clock mark.  That was high mark, usually though I'd listen 2-4 notches down from there.  In that arrangement where do you fall prep?


 
   
  Correct, I like to turn it up a bit.  With that same setup, I'll go with the high gain at around the 10 o'clock mark..  
   
  On my HE-6 / F1J rig I went with the 4x gain resisters in my pre amp.  Still at around the 10 o'clock mark with that as well.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





songmic said:


> The HD800 has great bass quality, but leaves more bass quantity to be desired.


 
   
  No, no problems with bass quantity here.
  Their are phones with a fuller bass but many of these don't have the bass control that the HD800's have and the 'fuller' or greater quantilty you perceive comes from less control and definition.
  This control can give the impression of less 'quantity' but feed the HD800's with a quality source and use a quality amp then the bass quantity takes a massive leap forward.


----------



## James-uk

SMV - Lil'Victa. Listen to this and tell me the HD800 lacks bass quantity.


----------



## James-uk

Quantity and quality all at the same time. Reminds me how great the HD800s are! Not that I ever need reminding


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> No, no problems with bass quantity here.
> Their are phones with a fuller bass but many of these don't have the bass control that the HD800's have and the 'fuller' or greater quantilty you perceive comes from less control and definition.


 
  There are other headphone with punchy bass, and you won't see that any people complain that they lack bass.
  I think the hd800 need more sub bass, so that the bass overall feel more present.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> There are other headphone with punchy bass, and you won't see that any people complain that they lack bass.
> I think the hd800 need more sub bass, so that the bass overall feel more present.


 
   
  Give some examples of the other headphones your talking about.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> *There are other headphone with punchy bass, and you won't see that any people complain that they lack bass*.
> I think the hd800 need more sub bass, so that the bass overall feel more present.


 
   
  I have read many times people saying that Grado's (most of them anyway) lack bass, yet they are very 'punchy'
   
  When I put on a bass heavy track the HD800's are only a smidgen less in the sub bass than the LCD2.2's & HE6's with the trade off being quicker, tighter bass (with regards the LCD's particularly).
  It's a trade off I am very happy to live with.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I also find the HD800's eye blinkingly punchy when the music call for it.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





songmic said:


> The HD800 has great bass quality, but leaves more bass quantity to be desired.


 
  You should try the new Sophia Electric in the ZDSE-that's the first tube I used that put some bass 'kick' in my HD800s that satisfied me with rock/pop music. Worth a shot, and a huge step up over the Brimar and NOS tung sol black round that I used as well...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Give some examples of the other headphones your talking about.


 
  Let's make a hd800 , d2000 comparison.
   
  If I look at the ratings at golden ear,
  you have :
  treble relative to midrange: 5 (imply very bright)
  bass relative to midrange: 0 (right amount of bass)
  bass texture: 4 (punchy, but not the punchiest headphone)
  http://en.goldenears.net/4326
   
  Compared to the denon D2000:
  treble relative to midrange: 1 (slight treble emphasis)
  bass relative to midrange: 2 (a moderate bass emphasis)
  treble + bass emphasis = slight V signature
  bass texture: 5 (punchier than the HD800, then).
  http://en.goldenears.net/4170
   
  I don't see much people complaining of the d2000 bass, which according golden ear ,
  have a punchier bass than the hd800, and a moderate bass emphasis.
   
  Off course you could criticize the golden ear rating, but I think they provide a great tool
  to compare headphone, especially if you can't try them , before you buy them.


----------



## third_eye

We're going to have many of the "big boy" HD800 amps at tomorrow's LA meet along with a large variety of aftermarket HD800 cables. My Stratus is going to be sitting next to the new ALO Studio Six. Check out our impressions thread starting tomorrow.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Let's make a hd800 , d2000 comparison.
> 
> If I look at the ratings at golden ear,
> you have :
> ...


 
   
   
  I guess I would be a person complaining about the D2000 bass. I had all three of the Denons D2000, D5000, D7000.  The D2000 is the last one I would pick for it's Bass presentation.  
   
  I'll take everything about the HD800 over the D2000s including anything regarding bass.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I guess I would be a person complaining about the D2000 bass. [...] The D2000 is the last one I would pick for it's Bass presentation.


 
  Explain a bit, thanks.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I guess I would be a person complaining about the D2000 bass. I had all three of the Denons D2000, D5000, D7000.  The D2000 is the last one I would pick for it's Bass presentation.
> 
> I'll take everything about the HD800 over the D2000s including anything regarding bass.


 

 +1


----------



## preproman

You said "*I don't see much people complaining of the d2000 bass,"*
   
  I'm saying.  I'm one of those people..


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





preproman said:


> You said "*I don't see much people complaining of the d2000 bass,"*
> 
> I'm saying.  I'm one of those people..


 
   
  It's fine if you don't like it, I just want you to be more specific in what you don't like.
  Especially if you consider, that I was hesitating to buy the d5000 instead of the hd800, despite being overpriced.


----------



## kn19h7

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Let's make a hd800 , d2000 comparison.
> 
> If I look at the ratings at golden ear,
> you have :
> ...


 
   
  I don't think the texture rating = punch, seems more like about the bass 'feel' to me.
   
  Btw, I think Cumulative Spectral Decay graph explains things better:
   
  SRH940: The low frequencies drop very fast in the very first instant, but then stay at certain volume and don't go away (perhaps resonance, which result in a thin and slightly muddy bass). This combine with the relatively much slower decay at about 10khz, results in the unnaturally bright sound character which some may complain (have to admit I'm a hater..).
   
  D2000: The bass drop considerably naturally, but also slowly, results in the strong bass feel which can be too much for some.
   
  HD800: Also considerably natural drop in the bass region, but faster than D2000. Quite ideal bass response I'd say, though the peak between 5k-10k can be somehow problematic.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





kn19h7 said:


> Btw, I think Cumulative Spectral Decay graph explains things better:
> 
> SRH940: The low frequencies drop very fast in the very first instant, but then stay at certain volume and don't go away (perhaps resonance, which result in a thin and slightly muddy bass). This combine with the relatively much slower decay at about 10khz, results in the unnaturally bright sound character which some may complain (have to admit I'm a hater..).
> 
> ...


 
  Nice explanation attempt, but I don't know if we can rely in the CSD displayed at golden ear. The csd of srh940  looks overall better.
  So you think that the csd indicate that the bass of srh940 is a bit muddy , but then it should sound cleaner than the hd800, when you play bass light music (such like piano). I'm unsure, so I'll test later.


----------



## LugBug1

I used to own the D2000 and its a great fun can to own along with say the 650/600's. But it really can't be compared to the HD800 under any circumstances, if we are to be serious.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





negura said:


> Just a quick note on this thread. Lately I've been seriously veering more towards the LCD-3s than the HD800s. What an impact the recent arrival of my Taboo MK3 had for me - the HD800s are back. The Burson Conductor is good, but this is a fantastic HD800s amp. This amp is a few classes above the Burson Soloist in SQ.  It also pulls the feat of being simultaneously fantastic with the HD800s and the LCD-3s. And this is with an incomplete burn-in and stock tubes. I won't go into details yet as it's still too early, but I am very pleased. Some serious sleep was lost these days in this house.


 
   
  Listening is so much more enjoyable when your wiped out too. Just IMHO. I think the brain is less capable of resisting and much more impressionable/suggestible.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





mambosenior said:


> Some of us can't have only one system, period. I've got so much schiit that I am too lazy to sell (spouse is now applying pressure) that I wind up "inventing" systems. (So far, the toilet is the only room music-free.)


 
   
  Sacrilege! Complete the mission.


----------



## zigy626

I am pleased to say that HD800 can do bass. I adjusted the gain on the Lehmann from 10dB to 20dB and that seemed to have done the trick. Much more fuller sound and  as close to a speaker setup one can get.


----------



## RedBull

From csd 940 bass lingering much longer than 800, therefore sounds a bit boomy, but also lesser in quantity than 800. Bass texture also not as good as 800, but 940 midrange looks cleaner.

Step response scale look very different tough. Are they testing using different volume level? 800 peak max at 1.7 mV and 940 peak ard 47 mV. How to read that?


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> I adjusted the gain on the Lehmann from 10dB to 20dB and that seemed to have done the trick.


 
  Lol.
  You know that louder sounds often better ?


----------



## extrabigmehdi

By the way , I got a hard lesson from kvr audio , they told me they  avoid linear phase eq like plague, and that it sounds terrible for the bass. So re-adjusting again eq 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





,  and I just avoid to touch anything in the bass region (since in way, or in an other, the result is not great).


----------



## kn19h7

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Nice explanation attempt, but I don't know if we can rely in the CSD displayed at golden ear. The csd of srh940  looks overall better.
> So you think that the csd indicate that the bass of srh940 is a bit muddy , but then it should sound cleaner than the hd800, when you play bass light music (such like piano). I'm unsure, so I'll test later.


 
  I actually much prefer looking at CSD than FR graph, it tells a much more complete story. And also coherent with my experience with the three headphones.
   
  But as the CSD graph is smoothed over (i.e. ringing effects hidden), it may not be a good reference for properties like resolving ability of micro details.
   
  The csd of srh940 actually can be also read as high treble presence (high peak, slower decay) without being covered by mids/bass (which the hd800 has, in contrast). I wouldn't say its better, some may like, some may not. Btw the bass response of hd800 definitely looks and sounds better to me. (But mind you, I just don't like how the srh940 sounds...)


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





kn19h7 said:


> The csd of srh940 actually can be also read as high treble presence (high peak, slower decay) without being covered by mids/bass (which the hd800 has, in contrast). I wouldn't say its better, some may like, some may not. Btw the bass response of hd800 definitely looks and sounds better to me


 
  I've listened to some piano on the srh940, which is supposed bass lite to avoid the supposed muddiness in the region below 500 hz. I found it's a delight to listen, it's relatively clean, BUT the hd800 is much more precise, with each note being very well defined.
   
  Quote: 





> . (But mind you, I just don't like how the srh940 sounds...)


 
   I'm not anymore experimenting the skull crushing treble spike,  I got when I listened the srh940 for the first time, so you might have in mind  something quite different.
   
  By the way, what you think of the mdr sony mdr-z1000 (it's on your profile) . It measure consistently bad everywhere, in particular the csd that looks like an exageration of the srh940 (similar flaws, but worse). I'm wondering how it could have fans , according to the measurements.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Posting my last last eq, for the hd800.
  I was discouraged from eq-ing anything in the bass region, or from using linear phase,
  so here's the final result:
   

   
   
  Difference with original sound:
  - with lot of stuff it sounds same than no eq.
  - reduce potential sibilance I noticed in some records.
  - the image seems more "focused".
  - more relaxing sound overall.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I've listened to some piano on the srh940, which is supposed bass lite to avoid the supposed muddiness in the region below 500 hz. I found it's a delight to listen, it's relatively clean, BUT the hd800 is much more precise, with each note being very well defined.
> 
> I'm not anymore experimenting the* skull crushing treble spike*,  I got when I listened the srh940 for the first time, so you might have in mind  something quite different.
> 
> By the way, what you think of the mdr sony mdr-z1000 (it's on your profile) . It measure consistently bad everywhere, in particular the csd that looks like an exageration of the srh940 (similar flaws, but worse). I'm wondering how it could have fans , according to the measurements.


 
   
*Lolz.*
   
  Oh, and D2000 bass=blOOOAAATTTed.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## RedBull

extrabigmehdi said:


> Lol.
> You know that louder sounds often better ?




It's not just about louder, my friend, it also add KICK to the sound


----------



## RedBull

bourneperfect said:


> *Lolz.*
> 
> Oh, and D2000 bass=blOOOAAATTTed.
> 
> -Daniel




There's no better word for it.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





redbull said:


> It's not just about louder, my friend, it also add KICK to the sound


 

 Louder sounds better in every way (don't ask me why, but the loudness war appeared because of this). .If you want to do a serious comparison , you must compare at same volume level.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> *Lolz.*
> 
> Oh, and D2000 bass=blOOOAAATTTed.
> 
> -Daniel


 

 Well my guess , is that some bloat could be rewarding.
  I'm not sure everyone is craving for a very controlled bass.
  At least when it's bloated... well it's obvious.


----------



## BournePerfect

Get a better amp.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## RedBull

extrabigmehdi said:


> Louder sounds better in every way (don't ask me why, but the loudness war appeared because of this). .If you want to do a serious comparison , you must compare at same volume level.




Obviously, what I meant was, at the same level, changing the gain in bcl increase dynamic, not only volume. When you try yourself you will understand what I mean.


----------



## kn19h7

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I'm not anymore experimenting the skull crushing treble spike,  I got when I listened the srh940 for the first time, so you might have in mind  something quite different.
> 
> By the way, what you think of the mdr sony mdr-z1000 (it's on your profile) . It measure consistently bad everywhere, in particular the csd that looks like an exageration of the srh940 (similar flaws, but worse). I'm wondering how it could have fans , according to the measurements.


 
  So you're implying the srh940 has been revised? Hmm...
   
  Well, they don't look that similar to me actually. The srh940's one is generally a upping slope towards 5k followed by a slight drop and then a spike at 10k, while for z1000 there are several ups and downs (for example, ~2k is much stronger on z1000). While the ~10k part on z1000 peaks high and lasts long, the ~5k part is very weak and lasts short, so overall the treble isn't that ear piercing. And also the <500hz part is stronger and stays more stable on z1000, which may help in covering the ~10k part.
   
  Music actually sounds quite different (from my other headphones like hd800 and a2000x) on the z1000 perhaps due to the big drop near 5k, it has a quite unique sonic character or just coloration which I happened to like. Currently using it in office with cowon j3, also considering replace it with a yamaha-mt220 though. As a result of very extensive use (>5hrs per day for about 2yrs), my z1000 looks very old now...
   
   


redbull said:


> Obviously, what I meant was, at the same level, changing the gain in bcl increase dynamic, not only volume. When you try yourself you will understand what I mean.


 

  I also think that the bcl sounds quite different on 0db and 10db gains, never bothered enough to do a blind test though.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Obviously, what I meant was, at the same level, changing the gain in bcl increase dynamic, not only volume. When you try yourself you will understand what I mean.


 
   
  No just no.  Changing the feedback 10dB when dealing with something that has 100,000x gain... not noticeable if properly level matched with a metre.  Even on something like the GS-X which has an open loop gain of about 30x, changing the feedback isn't noticeable.


----------



## RedBull

Yes solude, it has noticable more dynamic with sacrifice of detail, but definitely for sure, dynamic is increase.


----------



## Solude

Interesting.  What are you using to level match?


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





solude said:


> No just no.  Changing the feedback 10dB when dealing with something that has 100,000x gain... not noticeable if properly level matched with a metre.  Even on something like the GS-X which has an open loop gain of about 30x, changing the feedback isn't noticeable.


 
  I've noticed differences with other amps as well-level matched with a $30 spl meter. 
   
  Was it your or Prepo (sorry lol) that used to comment on the large differences with the Soloist on different settings?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I've noticed differences with other amps as well-level matched with a $30 spl meter.
> 
> Was it your or Prepo (sorry lol) that used to comment on the large differences with the Soloist on different settings?
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  Not me.  Never heard the Soloist..


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Was it your or Prepo (sorry lol) that used to comment on the large differences with the Soloist on different settings?


 
   
  Not me.  I give out free /facepalm to anyone who uses a stepped attenuator at high gain   It's a nuisance at unity gain, never mind 8x.


----------



## palmfish

Can someone explain how internal gain could affect the sound "quality?" It shouldn't, right?


----------



## RedBull

I cant explain but it definitely affect sound signature for bcl.
Maybe it increases voltage swing to the headphone?
It even change dynamic and signature on my Mustang. I cant believe you guys cant hear the difference.


----------



## LugBug1

I've read that volume is basically voltage gain, so in that respect higher gain = more voltage = more power to the headphones! Of course, only headphones that like a lot of voltage will benefit and the HD800's are defo one of those.


----------



## palmfish

More voltage would only benefit if there was insufficient voltage before. But at any given listening volume, the voltage should be the same - the only difference should be the position of the volume knob AFAIK.


----------



## LugBug1

Yeah that makes sense. Higher gain just means less on the volume pot, but the same voltage. Just like a lower gain but higher on the volume pot - same difference. The only benefit here is that some volume pots work better when they are set quite high, so a lower gain is going to be preferred in that case. But that is more for balance I think.
   
   
  hmmmm... C'mon Solude we want answers!


----------



## Solude

High gain doesn't change maximum power UNLESS the gain is too low to clip the amp.  Think gas pedal and red line on the RPM gauge.  Once you drop the pedal far enough in neutral to bury the needle, going further doesn't magically add RPM range.  Same with gain and amps.  High gain does raise the noise floor though and makes stepped attenuators are real chore   Particularly no fun on tube amps if they are micro-phonic.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





preproman said:


> *Not me.*  Never heard the Soloist..


 
   
  Quote: 





solude said:


> *Not me.*  I give out free /facepalm to anyone who uses a stepped attenuator at high gain   It's a nuisance at unity gain, never mind 8x.


 
   
**airball* *Coulda swore...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## RedBull

If i set lowest gain, the siund will be very flat, less bass but huge detail. If i set higher gain, more kick on every notes (think piano, drums, human voice rise peak, etc) but less detail and definitely warmer. The more i inceease the gain, the more the same effect increases.

I dont say higher gain increases power, but it change the amp and phone behaviour (hence signature) with slightly higher voltage sent to the phone. I usually set to medium as the low gain is too boring and the highest gain sacrifices too much detail.


----------



## KraftD1

Maybe a dumb question, but where do you go on Sennheiser's website to get the frequency response graph for your pair of HD800s? I've been looking around on there and can't seem to find it.


----------



## RedBull

From decware line, which one do you think sounds better for hd800, csp2+ or taboo? i read thag taboo is more for planar?


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





kraftd1 said:


> Maybe a dumb question, but where do you go on Sennheiser's website to get the frequency response graph for your pair of HD800s? I've been looking around on there and can't seem to find it.


 
  You simply need to register your product and request it.
   
  USA link: http://reg.sennheiserusa.com/
   
  Global (I think?) link: http://en-de.sennheiser.com/service-support/services/register-your-product


----------



## negura

Quote: 





redbull said:


> From decware line, which one do you think sounds better for hd800, csp2+ or taboo? i read thag taboo is more for planar?


 
   
  The Taboo *MK3 *is superb driving both the HD800s and LCD-3s. Yes, he markets it for planars, but make no mistake. It's outstanding with the HD800s. It's natural and refined, but it does some mean bass when it's called for and it's free of grain and very transparent to the tubes you use and DAC.
   
  The CSP2+ doesn't do planars, but many people use it hapily with the HD800s. I've not heard it.


----------



## KraftD1

Thanks



jd007 said:


> You simply need to register your product and request it.
> 
> USA link: http://reg.sennheiserusa.com/
> 
> ...


----------



## fuzzybaffy

Hello,
   
  I just got a chance to try out the HD-800 at a local Los Angeles head-fi meet today.
   
  I was afraid the treble would be a bit irritating, as some have written in the forums (though I never personally took those claims completely seriously), and although I might have noticed it at first, listening to the headphones more and more made me believe the issue was a tad bit overblown.
   
  That said, my initial overall impression of the HD-800 wasn't that great. I liked the Beyer T-1 a little bit better, at first. But as I got around to listening to all the (major) headphones at the meet, I noticed they all missed something, that I remembered some other headphone (which I eventually realized was the HD-800) had. And that was, as you guessed it, the sound-stage.
   
  After realizing the super-natural sound-stage of the HD-800, it really was difficult going back to any other headphone. Including the LCD3, and the Fostex TH-900 that were there. The sound-stage of the HD-800 just felt so... normal, but I mean that in a good way. Because to me, all the other headphones sounded non-normal. I know all the cliches of headphones, of any model and manufacturer, making it seem like you're "there in the studio", or "right next to the instruments", but they were all really true with the HD-800.
   
  And the sound signature was another thing that I got really accustomed to. It felt super, super flat, and it brought me back memories of a pair of studio monitors I had a few years ago. Just completely flat, which was indeed, what I was looking for in a headphone just a few months ago (during which I ended up purchasing the HD-650 at the time).
   
  After realizing the flat signature, the Fostex TH-900 sounded too "friendly" to me. As if it was specifically tuned to appeal to the masses, rather than going for accurate sound reproduction.
   
  So, yea... thanks to the head-fi meet, I've decided on the HD-800 as my future headphone. It will take a while, but maybe at some point, I'll be able to write in this thread again as a new owner!


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





fuzzybaffy said:


> And the sound signature was another thing that I got really accustomed to. It felt super, super flat, and it brought me back memories of a pair of studio monitors I had a few years ago. Just completely flat, which was indeed, what I was looking for in a headphone just a few months ago (during which I ended up purchasing the HD-650 at the time).


 
   
  That's actually a perfect comparison.  The HD800 do a really good job of sounding like a great studio monitor.


----------



## rawrster

So I'm selling my mjolnir amp later today. I think for now I'll keep the hd800 as a secondary rig with my anedio d1. there's no need to get fancy since it's still fairly capable and won't be used as much. 

I never thought there would be something for me that surpasses the hd800 until recently


----------



## RedBull

negura said:


> The Taboo *MK3 *is superb driving both the HD800s and LCD-3s. Yes, he markets it for planars, but make no mistake. It's outstanding with the HD800s. It's natural and refined, but it does some mean bass when it's called for and it's free of grain and very transparent to the tubes you use and DAC.
> 
> The CSP2+ doesn't do planars, but many people use it hapily with the HD800s. I've not heard it.




With that kind of power will there be hiss or hum with, say, low impedance, high sensitivity ad2000? Or even hd800?
How about stepped attenuator? Do you hear any clicks?


----------



## negura

No. This is one of the quietest tube amps. No hiss or hums. The stepped attenuator is quiet but it's probably early to tell. It is smoother than the one on the Soloist and quieter to begin with.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





redbull said:


> If i set lowest gain, the siund will be very flat, less bass but huge detail. If i set higher gain, more kick on every notes (think piano, drums, human voice rise peak, etc) but less detail and definitely warmer. The more i inceease the gain, the more the same effect increases.
> 
> I dont say higher gain increases power, but it change the amp and phone behaviour (hence signature) with slightly higher voltage sent to the phone. I usually set to medium as the low gain is too boring and the highest gain sacrifices too much detail.


 
  Thanks for your corroboration. I completely agree with you. Personally I enjoy the Lehmann BCL on 10dB with the HD800, it has much wider soundstage and detail. However with 20dB the music sounds so much fuller and as you said it adds that extra kick. I am no amp designer so would not know how changing the gain can change the sound signature on Lehmann, but it is definitely changing. Currently I am enjoying the 20dB because it provides the most speaker like sound signature even though the soundstage and detail have suffered.


----------



## MickeyVee

Pretty much the same thing happened to me at the May Toronto HeadFi meet. After auditioning the HD800 on my system and comparing to others, I decided that they were for me.  My HD700 and HE500 immediately went up for sale and I had the HD800 within a month or so.
  Enjoy the anticipation!
  Quote: 





fuzzybaffy said:


> So, yea... thanks to the head-fi meet, I've decided on the HD-800 as my future headphone. It will take a while, but maybe at some point, I'll be able to write in this thread again as a new owner!


----------



## RedBull

zigy626 said:


> Thanks for your corroboration. I completely agree with you. Personally I enjoy the Lehmann BCL on 10dB with the HD800, it has much wider soundstage and detail. However with 20dB the music sounds so much fuller and as you said it adds that extra kick. I am no amp designer so would not know how changing the gain can change the sound signature on Lehmann, but it is definitely changing. Currently I am enjoying the 20dB because it provides the most speaker like sound signature even though the soundstage and detail have suffered.




Yea, sometimes i play around with gain just for fun too. When i changes to low, i was 'whoa' so much detail and texture, much wider soundstage too, but of course it slams less and then gets boring soon after. And then high gain to get the slams, esp with electronica, but for normal listening, i set 10db for balance slams and detail.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Louder sounds better in every way (don't ask me why, but the loudness war appeared because of this). .If you want to do a serious comparison , you must compare at same volume level.


 
   
  The loudness war started because it was a way to make crappy equipment sound better to unrefined folk with unrefined taste.   Is that a sweeping generalization? You bet it is. Take it with a sweeping grain of salt.


----------



## LugBug1

Depends on how loud it is... If its louder than 'too quiet' happy days.. 
   
  I've always been a low level listener, but I treat myself to a few extra notches every now and again if I've been good  
   
  Problem is, the louder the volume the more your ears get accustomed to it. You then need louder to get the thrill of it being loud. And before you know it, you have tinnitus, followed by a steady slope into madness, hospitalization and then death. 
   
  Best keep your volume at a sensible level kids.


----------



## longbowbbs

negura said:


> redbull said:
> 
> 
> > From decware line, which one do you think sounds better for hd800, csp2+ or taboo? i read thag taboo is more for planar?
> ...


The CSP2+ is fantastic with the HD800's. You could use it as your stand alone amp with a nice source and be done with it.


----------



## FlySweep

I'm listening to Grant Geissman & co.'s "Sounds of Monterey Bay" .. a lovely jazz recording interspersed with lots of field recording elements (running water, rainfall, thunder, etc.).. w/ the HD800 & the BH Crack (rolling the Raytheon VT-231.. an "end game" tube..for me).  This is a well recorded album and the imaging queues are fantastic.  Rolling thunder sounds incredibly lifelike.. and hearing the vividness of piano (timbre that's surprisingly tough to get 'right,' IMO) is so satisfying.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> I'm listening to Grant Geissman & co.'s "Sounds of Monterey Bay" .. a lovely jazz recording interspersed with lots of field recording elements (running water, rainfall, thunder, etc.).. w/ the HD800 & the BH Crack (rolling the Raytheon VT-231.. an "end game" tube..for me).  This is a well recorded album and the imaging queues are fantastic.  Rolling thunder sounds incredibly lifelike.. and hearing the vividness of piano (timbre that's surprisingly tough to get 'right,' IMO) is so satisfying.


 
   
  Are you attending the Bottlehead meet this weekend?


----------



## FlySweep

palmfish said:


> Are you attending the Bottlehead meet this weekend?


 
   
  Didn't know there was one going on (admittedly, I haven't check the meet forum).. I'll see if I can make it!


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Well, I  figured out, that one of the strongest point of the hd800 i.e the short decay, is actually what some people  dislike,  and responsible  of the comments such like  "not musical", soulless, artificial etc... The hd800 is close to neutral, and you might be thinking that people don't like neutral, but the hd595 is relatively "neutral", and I've never seen as harsh criticism as the word "unbearable" for the hd595. No the problem is not with the source, if you are using a non-transparent source to make your hd800 more enjoyable, I  still consider that the original "problem" is with the hd800.
   
  The reason that the hd800 sounds  so good with classical music, voice etc .. is because these are natural sounds, that are  recorded.  Each sound that occurs naturally, have in general a longer decay  than the attack (if not, it's as if it's played in reverse). 
  However with synthetic musics, I guess they have been mixed/ mastered /tested using speakers or headphone with driver that have longer decay than the hd800.
  That's why synthetic stuff might sound "weird" on the hd800, some  sound   may seem unexpectedly short. Your brain notice sounds, and then  they are already gone: this put you in the position of a constant observer, the decays are just too short to enjoy anything.  So unless, you are constantly in a state of someone that "study music" , there is some music  you just can't play in the background , and forget it. And this despite the massive soundstage, of the hd800 that suggests a  laid back signature.
   
  So here's my best solution to bring back some soul, or at least make the hd800 sound more like a "normal" headphone. I  use the vst spl transient designer that bring back some decay.
  Actually the decays are not longer, but "fatter", which explain why you won't hear sound
  overlapping each other, even if you  boost it to max.
   
  You loose a little fidelity for a more relaxing sound, it's a trade off. Bit I think it  harm sound  less than stuff like crossover, dolby headphone, tb isone etc ....
  I increase the sustain (which is associated to decay) by a very small amount (0.52 db).
  The hidden sliders can be accessed  by loading the vst through "art teknika console".
  I don't touch to the attack setting (it would irritate after some time).
  Link setting on (preserve stereo image).
   

   

   
  Proof that some magic work with that dsp :  sibilance is efficiently masked, or any "tizz".
  Remove sibilance much better than any eq.
  And it's done by SPL, so if you trust that much their phonitor, you should give a try to their vst 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## FlySweep

If anyone thinks the HD800 is 'soulless'.. they haven't listened to it through a BH Crack.. with the Raytheon VT-231 tube.  It's _heavenly_.  As far as full sized headphones go.. there's nothing.. NOTHING else.. that I want to listen with (under $1500).  It possesses the clarity, speed, transparency, and extension of what you'd expect from an excellent, neutral sold state amp amp.. but provides the rich, natural, vibrant presentation of a _great_ tube.  I've rolled a number of 12AU7s and 12BH7s.. I've yet to find one that sounds as phenomenal as the the Raytheon VT-231 does.
   
  ..and it's absolutely badass with rock/metal.
   




   
  ..now, back to our regularly scheduled knob-twiddling.


----------



## RedBull

Extrabig, can you also buy de-esser from SPL and report? It also suppose to remove the nasty 'S' from recording, it theoretically can 'tame' hd800 'sibilant'


----------



## LugBug1

The HD800's are so amp and source dependant that they can't really be labelled generally. Thats why there are so many of us in disagreement regarding their sound characteristics. On my Audio gd they sound neutral, balanced and maybe a little flat. On my older 70's integrated/receiver amps they sound big, warm and analogue like. On an early eighties Technics amp they sound crisp and detailed at the top but almost too bassy at the bottom... I can go on with the change with different dacs as well but you get the picture. 
   
  I've said it probably about 15 times now and I'm annoying myself saying it again  But they are a very clean window onto your equipment. Rubbish in rubbish out. (apart from the soundstage will always impress


----------



## SHAHZADA123

lugbug1 said:


> The HD800's are so amp and source dependant that they can't really be labelled generally. Thats why there are so many of us in disagreement regarding their sound characteristics. On my Audio gd they sound neutral, balanced and maybe a little flat. On my older 70's integrated/receiver amps they sound big, warm and analogue like. On an early eighties Technics amp they sound crisp and detailed at the top but almost too bassy at the bottom... I can go on with the change with different dacs as well but you get the picture.
> 
> I've said it probably about 15 times now and I'm annoying myself saying it again  But they are a very clean window onto your equipment. Rubbish in rubbish out. (apart from the soundstage will always impress



Fully agree with the the first line.
I've been fortunate to hear them with ECBA, EARHP4 & Apex Pinnacle.
For 'tuby goodness' - ECBA
For punchy bass - Ear HP4
For the best of both worlds - Apex Pinnacle 
Obviously IMHO


----------



## fuzzybaffy

Though I can't speak for main-stream pop music, I do know that electronic dance music producers, nowadays at least, tend to produce their tracks on the "drier" side, with very little reverb. This is because large venue speaker systems have gotten so much better, louder, and more powerful recently, that music with reverb played really, really loudly on those speaker systems sound out of place.
   
  Reverb is intended to give the illusion that the sound is filling up the room, to make up for weaker sound systems. But now that club sound systems have gotten much better, the reverb is less necessary. Instead, they just want to play that pure sound.
   
  A good example is this track:
   





   
  It has exactly that "dry", shortened decay sound. It doesn't sound musical. But when the song is played loudly, in a club setting, it sounds right, because with the enormous speakers, it will seem to have a "purer" sound. The sound signature was definitely intentional.
   
  So, when the HD-800 plays more recent EDM tracks as these, and tends to have that "drier" sound, it's actually probably playing it exactly the way it was meant to be played.
   
  But, I may be wrong of course. I don't even own the HD-800 (but just heard it a few times at a recent meet, which I wrote about a few posts earlier in this thread) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But from what I've heard of the HD-800, I do think if it sounds "sterile" with very recent EDM tracks such as above, it's probably just playing the music the way it was produced. 
   
  Edit: (Oh God... writing about the HD-800 makes me want to buy one so bad.)


----------



## RedBull

Buy one now! 
I hated HD800 for 3 years since the launch, only to find it to be my most loved phone now.


----------



## EricAdams

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> The HD800's are so amp and source dependant that they can't really be labelled generally. Thats why there are so many of us in disagreement regarding their sound characteristics. On my Audio gd they sound neutral, balanced and maybe a little flat. On my older 70's integrated/receiver amps they sound big, warm and analogue like. On an early eighties Technics amp they sound crisp and detailed at the top but almost too bassy at the bottom... I can go on with the change with different dacs as well but you get the picture.
> 
> I've said it probably about 15 times now and I'm annoying myself saying it again  But they are a very clean window onto your equipment. Rubbish in rubbish out. (apart from the soundstage will always impress


 

 Fully agree the statement that HD800 is a very clean window which truly reflecting the source which causing "Rubbish in rubbish out", however, while I love my HD800 I do consider this effect as a major weakness of it.


----------



## Kendoji

It's been a couple weeks now since I got my HD800s and I'm really starting to appreciate their clarity and precision.  Also with heavy rock.  I did have a niggling feeling at first that there was something slightly sterile or 'soulless' about the sound, especially when compared to my Hifimans.  But I don't perceive them like that so much any more.  I think I'm going to like these headphones.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> It's been a couple weeks now since I got my HD800s and I'm really starting to appreciate their clarity and precision.  Also with heavy rock.  I did have a niggling feeling at first that there was something slightly sterile or 'soulless' about the sound, especially when compared to my Hifimans.  But I don't perceive them like that so much any more.  I think I'm going to like these headphones.


 
   
  Regarding the sterile/soulless part, most people just get used to it. Peculiarly (to me) some even like that. I did get used to it, for a little while.  That said, there's plenty of things that are awesome with the HD800s and I hold them in very high regard overall. To fix the sterile/souless and the brightness bits, I used the Anax mod and an aftermarket copper cable with great success. Now as I am selling my HD800s they're pure stock and I am missing those mods. Getting a lot of copper interconnects in your setup also goes towards the same effect of making the more musical, for those who like that. Pity the latter makes the LCD-3s sound sub-optimal if you're unfortunate as I am to have just one system.


----------



## fuzzybaffy

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Buy one now!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Haha... yea... If I had the funds, I would. Within a couple of years, I hope to be able to finally buy one.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Buy one now!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You would not be the only one. For some reason the HD800 is one of the more polarizing headphone that I know of. The same people have hated it comparing it to the LCD2 saying how unnatural it was compared to those headphones and then months later saying the HD800's neutrality is a breath of fresh air with the bass heavy LCD2.
   
  I've decided to downsize my HD800 rig lately to just my D1 as the dac/amp and then the headphones and they still sound great. I will say that I do think the amp inside my dac is great and bested the Violectric V200 when I owned that amp. After hearing it again today I'm glad I didn't sell them. I will have to switch back to the stock cable however since the Toxic Silver Poison cable I have on now is a bit longer than the stock cable as I had the stock cable shortened to 6 feet when I had it terminated to a 4 pin XLR.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

So I've finally took a different approach to change the sound of hd800 to something more of my taste.
  The annax mod is a bit complicate for me to apply  (I must get that creatology thing ...).
  So finally I  got the idea for a much easier mod.
   
  I  used one of these round sponge ,  that let young sudents , erase chalk from their slate .
  A pic just in case you don't see what I  mean:

   
  So it's a sponge with a diameter of 6cm, and a thickness of roughly 8mm.
  I  tried  cut it into two equal parts with a scissor:
   

   
   
  Then I've inserted each part directly above the dust cover, on region where there's the trapezoidal section.
  I've tried to apply each part in symmetric way, and I 've pushed  as much as possible the sponge against the mesh,
  to limit the area of the driver that might be hidden.
  The sponge is too thick,  you can't put it behind dust cover .
  But it stays in place.
   

   
   
  The changes in the sound signature are not subtle.
  The treble is "tamed", and softer (or perhaps more "diffuse").
  There's less "sparkle", or should I  say unnecessary "aural excitement".
  It sounds overall "warmer", perhaps more "analog".
  The mids are more forward and I  love this, because this my favorite part on the hd800.
  The imaging is improved i.e it's more "realistically  3D".
  I heard some stuff "vibrating near my ear", and I  thought there  was a resonance problem with  the sponge.
  But nope, it's in the recording when I  remove the sponge, I  was just tricked into thinking that's a real thing.
  So  overall, I  like the result, and I'll remove this  easily if I  change my mind.
   
  Also , I'd like to add if some of "excitement"  from treble is gone, with this mod  I think it's  better for longer listening session.
  I'd think the treble emphasis of stock hd800 give the illusion of something "more focused" , but it harms the genuine imaging.
  No I can't get same result with an eq.


----------



## jwang302

Hi guys, I have been eyeing the HD800 for a while now and I am wondering what is a good price for purchase.


----------



## lightningfarron

Quote: 





jwang302 said:


> Hi guys, I have been eyeing the HD800 for a while now and I am wondering what is a good price for purchase.


 

 the retail price is $1500 now if im not wrong so i think if you can get anything below that then its good


----------



## ForsakenArcher

Quote: 





jwang302 said:


> Hi guys, I have been eyeing the HD800 for a while now and I am wondering what is a good price for purchase.


 
  You can check the price from Meier audio. Just send Jan an email for the quotation of the best price.


----------



## RedBull

fuzzybaffy said:


> Haha... yea... If I had the funds, I would. Within a couple of years, I hope to be able to finally buy one.




Yes, wish you will have one soon.




rawrster said:


> You would not be the only one. For some reason the HD800 is one of the more polarizing headphone that I know of. The same people have hated it comparing it to the LCD2 saying how unnatural it was compared to those headphones and then months later saying the HD800's neutrality is a breath of fresh air with the bass heavy LCD2.
> 
> I've decided to downsize my HD800 rig lately to just my D1 as the dac/amp and then the headphones and they still sound great. I will say that I do think the amp inside my dac is great and bested the Violectric V200 when I owned that amp. After hearing it again today I'm glad I didn't sell them. I will have to switch back to the stock cable however since the Toxic Silver Poison cable I have on now is a bit longer than the stock cable as I had the stock cable shortened to 6 feet when I had it terminated to a 4 pin XLR.




Is D1 = Anedio D1? D1 internal amp better than V200, for Hd800?


----------



## Alexein Aner

How does the HD 800's bass compare to Hifiman HE 400's?


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Is D1 = Anedio D1? D1 internal amp better than V200, for Hd800?


 
   
  For me the internal amp is better than the V200 and didn't feel like I lost anything. It does have a different signature as the V200 is warmer. It's not a knock against the V200 which I think is a very versatile amp driving everything short of the HE6.


----------



## RedBull

Thanks rawster. I guess better in the sense of resolution and soundstage? And what else?


----------



## James-uk

I'm currently using my HD800s with a HDVD800 and I can't fault the pairing it sounds brilliant and I'm completely satisfied and I don't really don't need better sound......But because I can never stop looking for the best of the best I can't help wondering what a Stax sr009 sounds like. Now the problem is I will probably never hear one unless I buy it so I really want some opinions on whether a stax system is as good as its made out to be compared to a good HD800 setup and if so how much of an improvement are we talking? And is it worth going down that slippery slope?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> So I've finally took a different approach to change the sound of hd800 to something more of my taste.


 
  Thanks for sharing that. Looks pretty easy to do and easy to reverse as well. Also maybe try thinner foam for a more subtle result perhaps?


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





james-uk said:


> I'm currently using my HD800s with a HDVD800 and I can't fault the pairing it sounds brilliant and I'm completely satisfied and I don't really don't need better sound......But because I can never stop looking for the best of the best I can't help wondering what a Stax sr009 sounds like. Now the problem is I will probably never hear one unless I buy it so I really want some opinions on whether a stax system is as good as its made out to be compared to a good HD800 setup and if so how much of an improvement are we talking? And is it worth going down that slippery slope?


 
  In the long run, your curiosity will probably get the best of you (and your wallet will hate it). However, I own/ed both and I can tell you a few things:
  -Stax SR-009 has a more linear treble than HD800, without any peaks and resonances. Detail retrieval is a lot better with the 009.
  -The bass is more dynamic with the HD800s. For me the weakest point with the SR009s was the little quantity of bass, and this was certainly not neutral. The quantity of bass is lowered even when the record calls for it.
  -Mid-range is amazing with the 009, you can find nothing to complain about.
  -Imaging is more precise with the 009s. Sound stage is wider and has more air with the HD800s, which can at times be very unnatural to these ears.


----------



## James-uk

So would you say the difference is more a preference thing or is it just in a different league? ( my wallet hopes its preference !) for example I loved my hd650s and I still listen to them and enjoy them lots but the 800s are no doubt in a different league, is the difference that big or more 'side grade' / splitting hairs? Oh and thanks for the feedback it's much appreciated.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





james-uk said:


> So would you say the difference is more a preference thing or is it just in a different league? ( my wallet hopes its preference !) for example I loved my hd650s and I still listen to them and enjoy them lots but the 800s are no doubt in a different league, is the difference that big or more 'side grade' / splitting hairs? Oh and thanks for the feedback it's much appreciated.


 

 To be honest with you, stats in general are very different from what you're used to dynamics. It depends on your personal taste. I even prefer my Lambdas to the HD800. To me the weakness in bass of the SR-009 does not put it in a different league, even though it price dictates it.
  If you've never dabbled with electrostats, get a taste of it with the Stax SR-5 and an energizer for 100 GBP. The SR-5 have a good introductory sound to the Stax house sound, and the mid-range is what you will be pleased with the most.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Thanks for sharing that. Looks pretty easy to do and easy to reverse as well. Also maybe try thinner foam for a more subtle result perhaps?


 
  Thanks for your interest.
  I got a lot of these sponge at house, so this is what I  tried.
  The thickness of the sponge may have an indirect impact, depending of how much it overlap the driver.
   
  Here's the dust cover is removed to see what's happening when putting the sponge:
   

   
  Note : the sponge doesn't touch the driver, there's actually a thin protection in front of it.
   
  I've cut the round  "corner" of  sponge so that the contact is "flatter", and that it overlap less with the driver:

   
   
  The fact that the sponge overlapp the driver , is not necessarily a bad thing.
  If you look at the annax mod, there's width of the ring that overlap more or less the driver,
  and according to innerfidelity this remove some treble near 3khz.
  According to innerfidelity too, the thickness remove treble near 6khz.
   
  Imho , the hd800 have by default some noticeable coloration near 6khz, and it's exhausting,
  and the mod *might *replace it with an other, but it's doesn't grab attention,
  and there's an additional "organic feel" ( no  well pronounced aggressiveness on the highs)  that add a touch of realism.
  Lot of the "biting treble" is gone, but now I think that the hd800 stock sound, is like with some exciter dsp always on.
  Perhaps the sennheiser engineers, thought it would "wow" the listener, but there are no exciters you'd like to listen all the time.


----------



## zigy626

Today I really pushed the HD800. Wanted to see how loud it can get without distortion. I was amazed how loud the music got and without any distortion. I have to say I really enjoyed listening to Daft Punk blasting in my ears. Could have listened for a long time but the treble was a bit too much to take for my ears on some tracks. But wow the Lehmann really pushed this thing hard. Very impressed with the ring radiator driver.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Today I really pushed the HD800. Wanted to see how loud it can get without distortion. I was amazed how loud the music got and without any distortion. I have to say I really enjoyed listening to Daft Punk blasting in my ears. Could have listened for a long time but the treble was a bit too much to take for my ears on some tracks. But wow the Lehmann really pushed this thing hard. Very impressed with the ring radiator driver.


 
   
  I once put some 'music' earplugs in that mute anything over 85dB. Plugged the Senn into my (Corda Rock iirrc) and cranked thm nearly full dial. The INSANE bass at those volumes literally had the HD800s almost shaking loose from my head. Good times.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## extrabigmehdi

I  personally  think that boosting the volume to hear better the bass is not a good  idea. This either means that at normal volume there's already  too much of treble, or that the amount of bass is not enough  to be enjoyable.
   
  On another note, I'm pretty happy with my last mod. The vibrations are so much more "life like" when listening dark ambient : it's not just sounds, but almost the physical thing. Probably the imaging, but I  can't imagine not having that, and after a taste of this, I  want to improve my mod again, since obviously the shape is not optimal.


----------



## BournePerfect

Not sure where my EARPLUGS implied that I was boosting the volume for any other reason than to stress the HD800-the bass was a cool effect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 of the experiment. I think most would agree that boosting the volume to increase any frequency is a good idea-especially with headphones.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Well, it's just remind me all the nitpicking discussion regarding the fact that the srh940 didn't have enough mid-bass, while I  could just boost a bit the volume to hear an obvious thumping bass.
  Then the message was spread everywhere that the srh940  are "bass lite", while they have perhaps 3db max missing compared to "neutral".
  Now when you have the hd800, then it's off course ok to boost the volume to rave about the bass.
  Different headphone, different way of assessing it , I can't help thinking that there some "bias".


----------



## BournePerfect

Personally I've never heard any Shure headphone, so I'm not sure who you're directing that at.
   
  OTOH, I've never seen someone get away with as much bias and disguised attacks against a headphone of all things, let alone in it's own appreciation thread, as I have you. But hey at least you own it now, amirite? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> OTOH, I've never seen someone get away with as much bias and disguised attacks against a headphone of all things, let alone in it's own appreciation thread, as I have you. But hey at least you own it now, amirite?


 
  Well I just don't like the "positive bias",  maybe that's why I bother to react (as much as "negative bias") . But I probably shouldn't react each time, that's my mistake.
   
  How many time I've read here , that people enjoyed the bass of hd800, after boosting the volume ?
  It's just that ,  I see a pattern.  I'm waiting for the next  time someone say he like a lot the bass of the hd800, without "boosting the volume". But off course not you, since you are warned (and that I already predict your answer : the zana deux etc etc).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

My new Mytek 192 is still burning in. 
   
  sounds good with HD 800 now!  so much detail.
   
  still a little fatiguing though, gonna have to wait till the 100-150 hour mark. the HD 800s are extremely unforgiving right now.
   
  good recordings sound amazing though.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> My new Mytek 192 is still burning in.
> 
> sounds good with HD 800 now!  so much detail.
> 
> still a little fatiguing though, gonna have to wait till the 100-150 hour mark. the HD 800s are extremely unforgiving right now.


 
  Try the anax mod (or the easier one I suggested a few post ago), and save hours of insidious fatigue (you may  minimize the problem now  , but you'll regret it once you try the mod).


----------



## zigy626

Guy the main reason I pushed the Hd800 to high volumes had nothing to do with bass. I was getting some distortion on some tracks (bad recordings). So I choose the Daft Punk latest album as I know it has been recorded well. It was a test to see if my headphones are working fine or is there something wrong. Well they passed with flying colours. I have to say that I really enjoyed the experiment because it really gave me a feeling of sitting in front of two giant $20,000 speakers. The detail, soundstage, and yes bass was just off the chart. It was the first time I felt a sense of satisfaction listening to a pair of headphones and not regretting buying a speaker setup instead. I think currently I am very happy with my setup. I personally don't see my self going to a speaker setup for atleat 4-5 years (or maybe never). For the past 4 months I have been on a musical journey with the HD800's and discovered and widened my musical tastes.


----------



## silversurfer616

Have to agree on the new Daft Punk;best I have heard the HD800 so far.
The production is breathtaking and the music itself is a delight in groove and melody.
And I never liked Daft Punk!


----------



## LugBug1

I do like the Daft Punk album, but imo the production is a little too polished and polite at normal volume. There's no edge unless you do turn it right up! I'm not dissing it, but its clearly been produced to be played very loud in clubs etc. 
   
  and yes it does sound amazing cranked up on the Senn's!


----------



## BobJS

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I once put some 'music' earplugs in that mute anything over 85dB. Plugged the Senn into my (Corda Rock iirrc) and cranked thm nearly full dial. The INSANE bass at those volumes literally had the HD800s almost shaking loose from my head. Good times.
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  WHAT ? WHAT WAS THAT?


----------



## RedBull

I enjoyed very low volume with HD800, the instrument separation and space is much more realized, and I thought that's what 800 is famous for. 
I don't know how extrabig get the conclusion people like to crank up to get more bass. Certainly there are one or two who prefer loud, but as I recall, people tend to crank up LCD2, 3 more than 800.


----------



## nigeljames

Definitely don't need to crank the HD800's to get bass.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





redbull said:


> I don't know how extrabig get the conclusion people like to crank up to get more bass.


 
  This comes from the equal loudness curve:  the more you boost volume,  the more you are equally sensitive to  all frequencies,  and this is one reason people perceive louder as better.
   
  Evolution of the equal loudness curve with volume: as you see it's flatter & flatter with bigger volume, and less focused  on the 3khz-4khz region: (taken from wikipedia)
   

   
  I  managed to find an article about this:
  http://www.earsandgears.com/louder-is-better/
   
  So this is why I'm annoyed a bit by statement like "I've boosted  the volume , the bass is great".
   
  You know, even my hd25 sound better when I boost the volume.


----------



## RedBull

I know that equal loudness graph, just that it's not generally apply for HD800 sound signature.


----------



## BournePerfect

One of the greatest strengths of the HD800s, imo, is their ability to sound great a very low volumes. Other headphones I've had couldn't do that-I'd say the T1 was the worst culprit in that regard. I do feel part of this comes down to amp choice though, as I felt the need to keep turning up the m-Stage-probably because it was slightly too warm for my tastes, and I felt I was missing transparency and details compared to other amps I've owned.
   
  And yes, the HD800 bass is excellent even at lower volumes-speaking of quality over quantity here...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Personally I've never heard any Shure headphone, so I'm not sure who you're directing that at.
> 
> OTOH, I've never seen someone get away with as much bias and disguised attacks against a headphone of all things, let alone in it's own appreciation thread, as I have you. But hey at least you own it now, amirite?
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  +1
   
  And still comparing the 940s to the HD800s - really??


----------



## LugBug1

ahh you need someone to be devils advocate guys, otherwise threads become boring. Especially appreciation ones  
   
   
  Heres a pic of my latest HD800 amp. Smooth as butter and enough bass to cause a prolapse!


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





preproman said:


> And still comparing the 940s to the HD800s - really??


 

 Not  this time,  I  was comparing how the  discussion bias change for one headphone to an other.
  Sorry , if I  mentioned the srh940 again, I only have three full size headphones.


----------



## jjshin23

Very nice... I've been eyeing the Sansui AUxxx line as well.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





jjshin23 said:


> Very nice... I've been eyeing the Sansui AUxxx line as well.


 





 I'd defo go for it, they are pure quality. The AU 101 and my 505 make ideal headphone amps as they are low powered but with all of the Sansui goodness!


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> And yes, the HD800 bass is excellent even at lower volumes-speaking of quality over quantity here...


 
  I  know that the bass excellent, but do you feel the need to raise the volume to enjoy the bass ?
  Actually what I  think is that the hd800 might have a tad too much treble, and you'd need the raise the volume to hear better the lows.


----------



## BournePerfect

I've never once suggested/recommended raising the volume to bring up the bass on the HD800.
   
  Not once.
   
  Not ever.
   
  Not one single time.
   
   
  Ever.
   
   
   
  But I have mentioned how well the HD800s perform at low volume listening-even the bass. Mentioned it a few times in fact.
  Also, if you're still having treble issues with the HD800-I'd look further up the chain and find the culprit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## rawrster

I always thought that issues with low level listening were due to the amp and not the headphone. I haven't heard them all but better amps have usually solved the case with low level listening not sounding as good as louder volumes.


----------



## kazsud

lugbug1 said:


> ahh you need someone to be devils advocate guys, otherwise threads become boring. Especially appreciation ones
> 
> 
> Heres a pic of my latest HD800 amp. Smooth as butter and enough bass to cause a prolapse!



 
 Do you like it better than the pioneer?


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *LugBug1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Smooth as butter and enough bass to cause a prolapse!


 
   
  The HD-800 I found actually has good bass. My initial impression of it was not enough bass, but after some hours on them I found the bass to be good. I also own a pair of HE-500s and the bass on the two are quite comparable. The 800s' bass is a bit thin, and the 500s' bass has a bit more rumble, but the difference is very subtle and most of the time I don't even notice the difference.


----------



## palmfish

It shouldn't have anything to do with the amp.
   
  Higher volumes do sound better than lower volumes and the equal loudness curve is the biggest reason. This is why many vintage stereos have a "loudness button" and newer receivers have a "midnight mode."
   
  Depending on how loud you normally listen, your like/dislike of an amp or headphone can vary greatly. This is yet another reason why people hear and react differently to the same components - and why precise level matching is critical when comparing two components. A difference of one decibel might not be noticeable as a difference in volume to the ear, but in a side-by-side comparison, it's enough to make one amp/DAC/headphone sound more dynamic, airy, 3D, etc. than another.
   
  This is reason enough for me to disregard any subjective review of an upstream component - a view headphone reviews with a grain of salt.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *palmfish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> A difference of one decibel might not be noticeable as a difference in volume to the ear, but in a side-by-side comparison, it's enough to make one amp/DAC/headphone sound more dynamic, airy, 3D, etc. than another.


 
  Yeah, I  know it too much. I  have tricked myself so many time with dsp, "thinking it sound better"  only to realize that's the the loudness difference I  enjoy. Even with an equalizer, I  tend to boost instinctively all the bands, and that's one reason that makes them hard to tweak them by ear.


----------



## Kyle 491

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> The HD-800 I found actually has good bass. My initial impression of it was not enough bass, but after some hours on them I found the bass to be good. I also own a pair of HE-500s and the bass on the two are quite comparable. The 800s' bass is a bit thin, and the 500s' bass has a bit more rumble, but the difference is very subtle and most of the time I don't even notice the difference.


 
   
  I find that the HE-500's are a bit thicker in the mid-bass and have a more "meaty" presentation in the bass overall, but that the HD800 has notably more extension and more dynamic range across the sub-bass to upper bass. I find it a cleaner and more exciting presentation overall, but  I do sometimes hanker for the lovely timbre the HE-500 bass exhibits with certain kick drums.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

HE-500 also has wooly bass


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





kyle 491 said:


> but that the HD800 has notably more extension and more dynamic range across the sub-bass to upper bass


 
  looks like  good news. I tought that orthodynamics were best for sub bass.


----------



## Frank I

For anyone interestedSennheiser HDVD800 Headphone Amplifier Review


----------



## Kyle 491

Interesting review in regards to balanced operation of the HD800. I've only heard them single-ended from this amp and was completely uninterested in their presentation. Just a bog-standard solid state sound that can be found on much cheaper amps, complete with the usual digital glare. But it seems balanced operation makes a big difference judging by comments in the last London meet where the HD800s were driven off the amp using a balanced cable. Really, the amp should come with a balanced cable at that price. Would be interested to read comparisons with other amps in this price range.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> Do you like it better than the pioneer?


 
  Just got the Sansui today, but I'm really- really impressed. The sound is kind of liquidy, I'm reminded of the LCD2 mids. Its that kind of smooth, oily but detailed sound. Similar to a good OTL amp. The Pioneer has been my fave amp for the last few months so I need to do a good bit of a/bing before I decide which is best. Both are winners with the Senn's though. I've worked my way through quite a few vintage amps recently and the 3 best makes imo are predictably Sansui, Pioneer and Marantz. Suppose they were the leaders in the 70's for a reason.


----------



## kazsud

Thanks


----------



## preproman

Just got my babies back from James @ Stefan Audio Art.  He installed (Hardwired) the Endorphin E-Series cable.  I really like the aesthetics* *of this cable it looks and feels very nice.  Ergonomically the cable is very flexible, soft and light with out a hint of microphonics.
   
  James says to give it 250 hrs. of burn in
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Well, I don't really do that.  I just put them on and listen.  Also, I won't comment on the sound of the cable.  I think all the aftermarkets cables sound pretty darn good. 
   
  Question for the HD800 owners.   Do you take out the dust covers?


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Not  this time,  I  was comparing how the  discussion bias change for one headphone to an other.
> Sorry , if I  mentioned the srh940 again, I only have three full size headphones.


 

 Listening to the SRH940 is like someone poking a razor blade at my ear drum. It is also extremely uncomfortable.


----------



## LugBug1

*Preproman*  That is the king of cables! 
   
  It'll keep you warm on those winter nights too


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> Listening to the SRH940 is like someone poking a razor blade at my ear drum.


 
  To keep it short: easy to fix (see my review at heed gear section).


----------



## RedBull

Interesting. Made me want to try 940 myself.


----------



## jjshin23

Preproman, I guess size does matter


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> looks like  good news. I tought that orthodynamics were best for sub bass.


 
   
  IME, HE-500 has much better extension in the sub-bass than the HD800. HD800 drops off pretty sharply below 40Hz while HE-500 is still audible and powerful down to 20Hz. This is based on my ears using SineGen.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





jjshin23 said:


> Preproman, I guess size does matter


 
   
   
  What the cable size?  The sleeve is just thick and fluffy.  the cable itself is not thick at all.


----------



## jjshin23

The cable size look like cable car cables - through-put must be amazing!  Seriously, great cable!


----------



## RedBull

Remind me of little girl hair, like Wendy's logo  but seriously, it look nice and I bet the sound too.
Hardwired means soldered directly to the phone?


----------



## ULUL

testing a HD800 right now. 
   
  Curious - given the size of the HD800 cups, I wonder if some may have problems with the cups sealing against one's face.  
   
  Or does it not matter given that it is an open phone? 
   
  I ask as some seem to say the HD800 has lots of bass and some say it is bass light. I wonder if this has to do with the seal. 
   
  UL


----------



## negura

Quote: 





ulul said:


> testing a HD800 right now.
> 
> Curious - given the size of the HD800 cups, I wonder if some may have problems with the cups sealing against one's face.
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's all a matter of perspective (what is one comparing with) and downstream. The HD800s are neutral headphones and can swing either way depending on downstream.


----------



## Kyle 491

For me they both roll off in the sub-bass region, difference being the HE-500 rolls off more suddenly and deeply, while the HD800 gradually rolls off from its upper bass downwards, feeling more even despite having less total bass overall in quantity. Using velour pads, the HE-500 certainly feels like its missing part of the bottom octave versus the TH900 and LCD-3 from what I can remember. The HE-500 is not as clear and controlled in the sub-bass as the HD800 to me, maybe part attributed to the "wooly" perception of its bass.


----------



## RedBull

From someone that used to hear Staxes, 800 have a huge slam.
From someone that used to hear D2000, 800 bass is thin.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> HE-500 also has wooly bass


 
  I agree with this.  That is what I found, also.
   
  @preproman - Sweet cables!!!


----------



## MickeyVee

Wow.. totally different experience for me.  Before I had the HD800, I had the HD700 and HE500.  The HD700 reached lower and had much tighter bass than the HE500.  I found the HE500 bass relatively flabby.  I loved the HE500 mids, highs and overall balance but I turned to the HD700 for overall balance, great, tight bass and a soundstage to kill for but there was that annoying treble peak that reared it's ugly head from time to time. It was about 90% HD700 10% HE500 for me.
  I then got to audition the HD800 on my system at a HeadFi meet.  It totally smoked the HE500 in bass quality and the quantity was more than sufficient when called for.  The HD700 had more quantity than either, better quality than the HE500 but not as good as the HD800.  So, from an overall perspective and balance, the Hd800 won out for me. Bye bye HE500 & HD700.. This is my experience on my system. YMMV.
  Hello HD800!
  Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> IME, HE-500 has much better extension in the sub-bass than the HD800. HD800 drops off pretty sharply below 40Hz while HE-500 is still audible and powerful down to 20Hz. This is based on my ears using SineGen.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> @preproman - Sweet cables!!!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Just got my babies back from James @ Stefan Audio Art.  He installed (Hardwired) the Endorphin E-Series cable.  I really like the aesthetics* *of this cable it looks and feels very nice.  Ergonomically the cable is very flexible, soft and light with out a hint of microphonics.
> 
> James says to give it 250 hrs. of burn in
> 
> ...


 
  Doesn't James claim a superior sound when hardwired? Similar to Robert's Zeus cables?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Doesn't James claim a superior sound when hardwired? Similar to Robert's Zeus cables?


 
   
  James does claim a lot of things...  At this point, they sound the same now as they did before the new cable.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





preproman said:


> James does claim a lot of things...  At this point, they sound the same now as they did before the new cable.


 
  Regardless, that's a superb cable. Did you not go with Norse just cause you wanted something different, or the style fit to your liking more?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Regardless, that's a superb cable. Did you not go with Norse just cause you wanted something different, or the style fit to your liking more?


 
   
  It was hard to get any one to hardwire the HD800s.  James would only do it with his cable.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

So here are my last mod experiments &  thoughts regarding the hd800.
  I've experimented non stop , and it  was clear that some complex psychoacoustic phenomenon occurs in the trapeze  section that the annax mod and other try to dampen.
  The hd800 cups are conceived a bit like an anechoic chamber, with little resonance inside the cups. It was clear to me that some of the resonances left, were intentional. I'll explain more later.
   
  A first quite informative mod, but not so recommended. I  got some spare ksc75 pads, and I  thought this must be some good material to remove unwanted "treble bite" .  I've reshaped them a bit with scissor, and put them in the trapeze section (and then I've put the dust cover).
   

   
  I  really wanted hard to like this, because I  thought it was cool somehow (not only the ksc75 are the best bang for the buck, but they make your hd800 sound better !).  Unfortunately this didn't work completely as I expected.
  Treble was successfully tamed, and sibilance less "aggressive " on some material.
  No pronounced coloration in the sound.
  So what was wrong ?
  The treble was dry to death. Lacking euphony, never sounded much crystalline.  The sound was not bad by itself,
  but when you are used to a more pleasant treble , that's frustrating.
  And second problem, the imaging . There was almost no directionality in the sound, positioning of sound was quite fuzzy , and I  guess the idea of any crossfeed is moot.
   
   
  So I've been analyzing the positioning of driver in the cup. If you imagine two "sound beam" coming from the drivers, they'll intersect behind your head, and a bit at top. That's probably the kind of image sennheiser intended . I  don't know,  but myself I  tend to prefer when the sound seem to come from the back.
  So what kind of resonance, would be the most harmful for that imaging ?
  I  thought resonances coming from the opposite direction.
   
  So I've put some triangle shaped foam (it seems "open cell foam") ,  in the top back of each cup, covering only half of the "trapeze shaped" section.

   
   
  Result:
  - convincing imaging , and I'd think  more than the default one: I  can "locate"  easily lot of sounds.
  - still euphonic
  - treble tamed to some extent.
  - it's perhaps a bit less open, although I'm unsure. The soundstage is still wide.
   
  So I  tried to check my hypothesis, by putting the foam triangle in the bottom part off the "trapeze shaped" section instead.
  Result:
  - treble still tamed
  - too dry
  - lack of any directionality
   
  Well, I  hope you'll find this inspiring. I  may try other foams later.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Wow.. totally different experience for me.  Before I had the HD800, I had the HD700 and HE500.  The HD700 reached lower and had much tighter bass than the HE500.  I found the HE500 bass relatively flabby.  I loved the HE500 mids, highs and overall balance but I turned to the HD700 for overall balance, great, tight bass and a soundstage to kill for but there was that annoying treble peak that reared it's ugly head from time to time. It was about 90% HD700 10% HE500 for me.
> I then got to audition the HD800 on my system at a HeadFi meet.  It totally smoked the HE500 in bass quality and the quantity was more than sufficient when called for.  The HD700 had more quantity than either, better quality than the HE500 but not as good as the HD800.  So, from an overall perspective and balance, the Hd800 won out for me. Bye bye HE500 & HD700.. This is my experience on my system. YMMV.
> Hello HD800!


 
   
  I think it may be a difference in the upstream system. It's possible you may have been underpowering the HE-500 as it does require more current than most dynamic drivers. IME, with the Lyr the HE-500 extends a little bit lower into the sub-bass than HD800. Not that the HD800 is lacking in extension, the HE-500 just goes a little lower. I wouldn't describe the HE-500's bass as "wooly" or "flabby" however it is slower than the very quick HD800. I actually prefer this because it gives the music more body and weight. It sounds more like it's coming from a 12" subwoofer than a super-tight headphone.


----------



## zigy626

Never really enjoyed the Hifiman He 500 that much. The soundstage was very closed and they were heavy and cumbersome. Don't even start me on that thin silver/copper cable. Cant compare He500 to the HD800 which is in a class of it own. Hifiman needs to work on quality control issues. Maybe one day they can pay as much attention to detail as Sennheiser pays to the HD800. Especially with each headphone getting its frequency graph. Just look at the fine mesh that goes over the driver on HD800, means nothing was left to chance. You dont need to worry about dust/hair getting in the driver, which means perfect sound every time.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Never really enjoyed the Hifiman He 500 that much. The soundstage was very closed and they were heavy and cumbersome. Don't even start me on that thin silver/copper cable. Cant compare He500 to the HD800 which is in a class of it own. Hifiman needs to work on quality control issues. Maybe one day they can pay as much attention to detail as Sennheiser pays to the HD800. Especially with each headphone getting its frequency graph. Just look at the fine mesh that goes over the driver on HD800, means nothing was left to chance. You dont need to worry about dust/hair getting in the driver, which means perfect sound every time.


 
   
  The Hifiman definitely has some quality control issues. But at less than half the cost of the HD800, I can forgive some cut corners. I replaced the crappy cable it came with as I couldn't stand its microphonics. I doubt Hifiman will ever be up to the manufacturing standards of Sennheiser, but Sennheiser is also a much larger company with more resources than Hifiman. There's definitely room for improvement though. I love both headphones but overall I prefer the sound of the Hifiman. Much more euphonic and fun to listen to, even if it is technically inferior. Also, the Hifiman has dust screens on both sides of the driver as well.


----------



## Solude

Couple of things.  The HE-500 is much faster than the HD800, the HD800 comes to rest faster but the actual pulse speed, HE-500.  The cable for all HiFiMAN orthos is massively thicker than the HD800's 36awg cable. Other Senn cables are even thinner.  Don't confuse sheathe thickness for cable gauge.  HE-500 bass sounds thicker because it tilts up into the sub bass while the HD800 tilts to the warmth area then drops.  Tight vs Full bass.  Studio monitor vs stand alone subwoofer.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





solude said:


> Couple of things.  The HE-500 is much faster than the HD800, the HD800 comes to rest faster but the actual pulse speed, HE-500.  The cable for all HiFiMAN orthos is massively thicker than the HD800's 36awg cable. Other Senn cables are even thinner.  Don't confuse sheathe thickness for cable gauge.  HE-500 bass sounds thicker because it tilts up into the sub bass while the HD800 tilts to the warmth area then drops.  Tight vs Full bass.  Studio monitor vs stand alone subwoofer.


 
   
  I am aware of the crappy cable on the HD800. I replaced that one as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyways, regardless of graphs and measurements, the point I was trying to make is the HE-500's bass sounds slower and thicker. That's why people describe it as "wooly". It's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just different. It's all preference.


----------



## fuzzybaffy

Quote: 





solude said:


> Couple of things.  The HE-500 is much faster than the HD800, the HD800 comes to rest faster but the actual pulse speed, HE-500.  The cable for all HiFiMAN orthos is massively thicker than the HD800's 36awg cable. Other Senn cables are even thinner.  Don't confuse sheathe thickness for cable gauge.  HE-500 bass sounds thicker because it tilts up into the sub bass while the HD800 tilts to the warmth area then drops.  Tight vs Full bass.  Studio monitor vs stand alone subwoofer.


 
   
  In this case, which is the studio monitor? I know you've likened the HD-800 to a studio monitor before, but since you're comparing the HD-800 to something else, I was thinking the comparison might be different this time. It does seem like you're saying the HD-800 is like the studio monitor, though...


----------



## Solude

Yes HD800 has monitor bass, ie tight. I didn't come up with the analogy but it fits.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





fuzzybaffy said:


> In this case, which is the studio monitor? I know you've likened the HD-800 to a studio monitor before, but since you're comparing the HD-800 to something else, I was thinking the comparison might be different this time. It does seem like you're saying the HD-800 is like the studio monitor, though...


 
   
  Tight = Studio monitor = HD800
  Full = Subwoofer = HE-500


----------



## zigy626

I am finding the HD800 unforgiving on certain recordings. Example Michael Kiwanuka- Rest (distortion at the beginning of the song and further down the recording). Please can anyone concur. I have tried with the Koss Porta Pro and it just does not have the same level of detail as the HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Thanks


----------



## preproman

Wake up your ears....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HX090368080165


----------



## James-uk

Hi Zigy, I've just listen to that record as an alac cd rip (ripped using xld encoder for Mac) using I tunes >pure music>HDVD800>HD800 with stock cable and it sounds perfect to these ears. Not sure what's going on in your setup to give distortion. Hope this helps to at least eliminate the recording as the problem.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Wake up your ears....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Can only get the free sampler here in the uk, got it a while ago   Shame coz I really want more HD music online. 
   
  But its a great freebie! and the sound is effing amazing with the Senn's


----------



## James-uk

lugBug I've just downloaded that from HD tracks in the uk. Some if their content is available here now


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





james-uk said:


> lugBug I've just downloaded that from HD tracks in the uk. Some if their content is available here now


 
  Woop woop! 
   
  cheers bud, I'll have to have another look )


----------



## fuzzybaffy

Solude, stalker: Thanks.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





james-uk said:


> Hi Zigy, I've just listen to that record as an alac cd rip (ripped using xld encoder for Mac) using I tunes >pure music>HDVD800>HD800 with stock cable and it sounds perfect to these ears. Not sure what's going on in your setup to give distortion. Hope this helps to at least eliminate the recording as the problem.


 
  Thanks James-uk. I am not sure either. Could be a bad rip maybe.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Wake up your ears....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have heard from friends of mine that if you are in UK you can use a good VPN provider that has a server in US. Add the album to the cart. Then pay via paypal (but disconnect from the VPN before paying). Once the transaction goes through connect back to the VPN (US Location) and download the album. Personally I have never tried it, just giving out theoretical information that it can be done.


----------



## silversurfer616

just register under a fake US address and ONLY pay with paypal.....then it works.
Had the same problem as HDTracks is not available in New Zealand.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> just register under a fake US address and ONLY pay with paypal.....then it works.
> Had the same problem as HDTracks is not available in New Zealand.


 
  I see,,, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  nice one!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> Tight = Studio monitor = HD800
> Full = Subwoofer = HE-500


 
   
  i would call the HE-500's bass punchy yet slightly dry/wooly


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Well, it's as if the hd800 is by itself a kind of anechoic chamber, being pierced like a sieve,  that let all sounds that doesn't reach ear  escape, and avoid any echo/resonances.
  But from what I've heard , listening music in an anechoic chamber, is a kind of dreadful experience.
  Actually there's a minimal amount of echo inside the cups, and it seem that a lot of them comes from the back "trapeze shaped" section, just behind the connection.
  This section is made of very hard material,  which I  guess reflect almost everything, and absorb almost nothing.
  This little section determine some sound characteristic of the hd800, I  guess.
  I  perceive only  limited a limited range of "vibration", that seem to comes to life with  the resonance in the cup. Put some other material there, and an other range of "life like" vibration would be heard.
  I'm betting that the hd800 would sound great with a piece of wood.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Can only get the free sampler here in the uk, got it a while ago   Shame coz I really want more HD music online.
> 
> But its a great freebie! and the sound is effing amazing with the Senn's


 
   
   
  How about these freebies
   
  http://www.2l.no/hires/


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Meh, I don't believe in high rez, 44.1 hz/16 bit is all you need for listening.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Meh, I don't believe in high rez,* 44.1 hz/16 bit is all you need for listening.*


 
   
  Says who?  Now let folks have their preferences - ok...


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Says who?  Now let folks have their preferences - ok...


 

 It's demonstrated that it's enough  (max frequency human can hear, nyquist theorem etc...).
  Now I understand that some placebo, is all  what some people need to be happy.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Meh, I don't believe in high rez, 44.1 hz/16 bit is all you need for listening.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





preproman said:


> How about these freebies
> 
> http://www.2l.no/hires/


 
  Brilliant mate, downloading now!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Well, it's as if the hd800 is by itself a kind of anechoic chamber, being pierced like a sieve,  that let all sounds that doesn't reach ear  escape, and avoid any echo/resonances.
> But from what I've heard , listening music in an anechoic chamber, is a kind of dreadful experience.
> Actually there's a minimal amount of echo inside the cups, and it seem that a lot of them comes from the back "trapeze shaped" section, just behind the connection.
> This section is made of very hard material,  which I  guess reflect almost everything, and absorb almost nothing.
> ...


 
  Bad day at the office bud?


----------



## RedBull

zigy626 said:


> I am finding the HD800 unforgiving on certain recordings. Example Michael Kiwanuka- Rest (distortion at the beginning of the song and further down the recording). Please can anyone concur. I have tried with the Koss Porta Pro and it just does not have the same level of detail as the HD800
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Portapro is a very nice phone can stand the test of time. 30 years and still in production. I still find it better than SR-60 for most recording.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Meh, I don't believe in high rez, 44.1 hz/16 bit is all you need for listening.


 
   
  Overkill actually but that said there certainly isn't a downside to higher bit or sampling rates other than storage assuming your gear CAN actually do higher rates without dropping to a lower operating mode.  Ie most DACs before the Sabre days can't do 192 without dropping down to 4x oversampling.  Which is why the Benchmark DAC1 chose 110K? as their upsampling number because it's the ceiling for keeping 8x oversampling.  That's completely ignoring that it's easier to generate and read a 44K spdif stream than a 192K one.


----------



## LugBug1

Yeah I do appreciate hd tracks and they can sound amazing with voice and acoustic instruments. Bit pointless with most pop music however, or old remasterings. With the former you can't polish a turd and most pop is already compressed and mashed up so no amount of bits is gonna help, even at the first stages of recording it. And the latter, you can't add what isn't there in the first place.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Yeah I do appreciate hd tracks and they can sound amazing with voice and acoustic instruments. Bit pointless with most pop music however, or old remasterings. With the former you can't polish a turd and most pop is already compressed and mashed up so no amount of bits is gonna help, even at the first stages of recording it. And the latter, you can't add what isn't there in the first place.


 
   
  Reminds me a bit the album "monkey me" by mylene farmer , available in high rez . Standard album has too much loudness compression and sounds too  harsh. I  was hoping to downsample the high res version: but same problem.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Definitely don't need to crank the HD800's to get bass.


 
   
  Depends on upstream equipment, even cabling, if your system doesn't produce much bass, HD800's will sound bass shy.  If your system produces good bass, HD800's will make good bass.
  Quote: 





solude said:


> Overkill actually but that said there certainly isn't a downside to higher bit or sampling rates other than storage assuming your gear CAN actually do higher rates without dropping to a lower operating mode.  Ie most DACs before the Sabre days can't do 192 without dropping down to 4x oversampling.  Which is why the Benchmark DAC1 chose 110K? as their upsampling number because it's the ceiling for keeping 8x oversampling.  That's completely ignoring that it's easier to generate and read a 44K spdif stream than a 192K one.


 
   
  In my system I find that I can't hear much improvement past 24/96, but 24/96 sounds clearly better than 16/44.1.  I think a lot has to do with the upstream digital components, and as you say the maximum sampling rate the DAC can handle without dropping the oversampling filter multiplier.  There's no point spending extra money, using more HDD space etc unless improvements can be heard with the equipment one is running.  In any case HD800's wont be the bottleneck.
   
*@preproman* those are great looking cables, even if there is no difference to hear, one has to admire the work that went into these, the attention to detail EG the modified connector etc.  RE dust filter it depends what other damping mods you are running.  The drivers themselves have a pretty fine (small holes) mesh screen over them, so I wouldn't be concerned on that front.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





drez said:


> Depends on upstream equipment, even cabling, if your system doesn't produce much bass, HD800's will sound bass shy.  If your system produces good bass, HD800's will make good bass.


 
   
  The answer was not about the system but about whether the HD800's can do bass without being cranked, and absolutely yes they can.
   
  If the system does not have much bass then even bass heavy headphones won't be able to produce bass. That has nothing to do with the HD800's ability to do bass without being 'cranked'.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

I'm finally sticking to my original mod, two half of sponge you put above layer dust.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-appreciation-thread/3900#post_9642447
   
  I tried to tweak my mod these last 3 days , without much success (trying to put it below dust cover, reshaping it,  or using an other kind of material etc ...).  Sometimes best impression is the first one, and obviously I don't understand fully how it works.
   

   
   
  The hd800 *may *loose some of it's "chirurgical presentation", precision,  but it's just more enjoyable overall.  Treble is tamed and I  had to admit that bass is more meaty.
  The bass (and to a lesser extent mids) have more texture to offer to my hungry ears, that were starving even when trying to boost lows with eq (or using all kind of other dsp).
   
  I  don't fully understand how it works.... but it works.
  I  was worried that the mod would be a downgrade the sound quality, considering  that the hd800 is expensive. So sorry if I  compared again to my *modded *srh940. It seems the frequency balance is more  similar, but the hd800 is still better (more clarity, more open, and clearly a better bass).
   
  I wish though that there would be a headphone that would provide a more optimal out of the box, experience, without having to mod it, nor to pay premium price of the hd800.


----------



## zigy626

On my Audiolab M-Dac 24/96 high-res music sounds amazing. When I first heard a high-res album downloaded from Linn Records it was a whole new musical experience ( like going from DVD to Blu-ray). Since then I always try to get high-res downloads of Albums. There is a very good video on youtube explaining how High-res digital music is getting closer and closer to Analog. Search under benefits of DSD. The explain the whole concept very clearly. I wont be able to do justice to it. Here I found the link 
   
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ3HRjFI6F0
   
  Enjoy.


----------



## kazsud

I picked up a Pioneer SX-750 today and really good for $140. I hooked it to my Dac-100 and listened to it for about an hour and one of the main things that stood out was it's non-fatuiging. I was hoping the bass/treble adjustments would work for the headphone out.
   
  Does anyone know if the headphone out varies at all on the different SX models?


----------



## silversurfer616

Don't know about the SX750 but my SX1010 has tone controls that work for the headphone out as well.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> On my Audiolab M-Dac 24/96 high-res music sounds amazing. When I first heard a high-res album downloaded from Linn Records it was a whole new musical experience ( like going from DVD to Blu-ray). Since then I always try to get high-res downloads of Albums.


 
  Well the album "the slip" nine inch nails , is available for free at both resolution  44.1hz/16 bit
  96hz/24 bit, lossless, and I  bet you won't be able to hear any differences (despite being  with a  detailed "industrial" sound) , or better , abx any track.
  Probably you hear difference on high res version because it's mastered in a different way.
  Reminds me the SHM-CD,  cd that are supposed to sound better because of "better" materials.
  I  hate them, because usually they have more loudness compression.


----------



## MickeyVee

True that.. was disappointed with the 24/96 Hotel California. I really can't tell the difference between the hi-rez download and the CD ripped as lossless. On the other half, Long Road Out of Eden ripped from CD is simply stunning!
  I don't go past 24/96 - It's hit and miss for me at HD Tracks though the Chesky stuff is stunning.
  Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Yeah I do appreciate hd tracks and they can sound amazing with voice and acoustic instruments. Bit pointless with most pop music however, or old remasterings. With the former you can't polish a turd and most pop is already compressed and mashed up so no amount of bits is gonna help, even at the first stages of recording it. And the latter, you can't add what isn't there in the first place.


----------



## palmfish

mickeyvee said:


> True that.. was disappointed with the 24/96 Hotel California. I really can't tell the difference between the hi-rez download and the CD ripped as lossless. On the other half, Long Road Out of Eden ripped from CD is simply stunning!
> I don't go past 24/96 - It's hit and miss for me at HD Tracks though the Chesky stuff is stunning.




Chesky (and other labels of a similar vein) are proof that high Rez is no better than redbook and that the recording and mastering is what matters.


----------



## longbowbbs

i knew there was a reason I held on to all those CD's....


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i can tell an improvement between 24/96 and CD, but it depends on the recording, otherwise there really wouldn't be a difference. between 24/96, 24/192 and SACD, the difference is practically nothing. though i think some SACD's can be a little smoother but once again, it mostly just depends on the recording quality.
   
  now mp3 is different. 320kbps and CD is a very small difference not generally noticed. but anything lower and it becomes quite obvious. 320kbps and better recorded lossless, it becomes more obvious.


----------



## preproman

Thought I'd ask here.  Have anyone seen or used one of these?  I seen it at the CAF today and thought wow.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wow that looks cool!!


----------



## bearFNF

Heh, does look cool, are those water cooling hoses on the back? (before someone jumps on it I am kidding about the water cooling)


----------



## jazzerdave

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Thought I'd ask here.  Have anyone seen or used one of these?  I seen it at the CAF today and thought wow.


 
   
  That's a wonderful player.  I spent a while listening to it at RMAF last year in the Modwright room.  I have one of their preamps, and I've yet to hear anything that Dan Wright has made that I didn't thoroughly enjoy.  That's one of the best universal players I've heard to date.


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Thought I'd ask here.  Have anyone seen or used one of these?  I seen it at the CAF today and thought wow.


 
   
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/modwright11/1.html


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> I picked up a Pioneer SX-750 today and really good for $140. I hooked it to my Dac-100 and listened to it for about an hour and one of the main things that stood out was it's non-fatuiging. I was hoping the bass/treble adjustments would work for the headphone out.
> 
> Does anyone know if the headphone out varies at all on the different SX models?


 
  The tones work on my SX550 but they are very subtle and not the best. To be honest I've never needed to use them, there is more than enough bass and the treble is very natural for my liking. 
   
  Thats a great price for a 750. Maybe post some pics in the Vintage thread


----------



## RedBull

Wow! Pretty! That's different.


----------



## Taliesin

I was just wondering what people thought was the cheapest amp that works okay with the hd800 is?


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> I was just wondering what people thought was the cheapest amp that works okay with the hd800 is?


 
  I don't believe that the  hd800 are hard to drive, it's just that they have a default  ungratifying presentation (albeit technically good overall) , and that people seek source  that make them "more musical" to their ears. The annax mod might be an efficient , and "cheap" upgrade.
  I've personally just used foam stuck in  sides.
   
  Now if you want to disregard what I  said, there is the bottlehead crack . My belief is that it  introduce all kind of colorations/  distorsions to make the hd800 more pleasing, although I  need to hear that.


----------



## preproman

What are the thoughts on the Woo WA22 with the HD800s?


----------



## Taliesin

has anyone compared the schiit lyr vs the asgard 2 with the hd800s?


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





preproman said:


> What are the thoughts on the Woo WA22 with the HD800s?


 
   
  WA22 depending on tubes is more or less a stand in for the B22.  B22 being slightly better in staging and separation but otherwise you'd be hard pressed to pick them out in a blind A/B.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> I was just wondering what people thought was the cheapest amp that works okay with the hd800 is?


 
  M-stage works really well for the price imo.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





taliesin said:


> I was just wondering what people thought was the cheapest amp that works okay with the hd800 is?


 
  I thought the Asgard 2 did a good job driving them.


----------



## skeptic

taliesin said:


> I was just wondering what people thought was the cheapest amp that works okay with the hd800 is?




A bottlehead crack with speedball is excellent with hd800s. take a gander at the crack thread for lots of comparisons and impressions on the pairing.

Edit, regarding extrabigmehdi comment above- there's no need to speculate about the crack's distortion specs, particularly if you've never even heard the amp :rolleyes: The fact of the matter is that it is more detailed, punchy and dynamic, and quite a bit less tubey, than other frequently recommended commercial tube options (i.e. Woo amps). With the constant current upgrade in place, the crack is simply a very well thought out otl kit amp, that pairs tremendously well with sennheisers and which also has great community support through the bh forums. Because it has a high output impedance (like most all other otl's), it boosts the hd800's bass a bit due to the spike in the hd800's impedance curve.


----------



## LarsHP

Anybody who has heard HD800 through the headphone output of Leben CS300? I just bought the amp thinking it would be a nice pairing with the HD800. The amp also has a bass boost with may be useful with it, I expect.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> M-stage works really well for the price imo.


 
  This. The Corda Rock works surprisingly well too, and doubles as the cutest amp ever.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## RedBull

larshp said:


> Anybody who has heard HD800 through the headphone output of Leben CS300? I just bought the amp thinking it would be a nice pairing with the HD800. The amp also has a bass boost with may be useful with it, I expect.




Yes, it pairs very well with HD800, but mine is CS300XS, which according to Skylab, is no different than CS300 headphone out. It adds a touch warmth in the midrange. Detail, 3D space, dynamic, treble sparks, air is very nice with 800.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





songmic said:


> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/modwright11/1.html


 
  DMinches has that mod I believe to the BDP95


----------



## LarsHP

Thanks! I think the CS300XS is a better spec'ed version with NOS tubes, but they are basically the same, yes. 


Do you hear any hiss or hum?


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





skeptic said:


> A bottlehead crack with speedball is excellent with hd800s. take a gander at the crack thread for lots of comparisons and impressions on the pairing.
> 
> Edit, regarding extrabigmehdi comment above- there's no need to speculate about the crack's distortion specs, particularly if you've never even heard the amp
> 
> ...


 
  Well, you said that it's less tubey. I deduce that it's still tubey ,so it's no more "speculation " but deduction. (and frankly I'll assume this each time that someone say that a particular tube "sound great" : there's no advantage of tubes over solid state except coloration & distorsion).
  Add to the mix a limited damping factor, but the hdvd800 does also this.
  I didn't "heard the amp", but I've read enough experts opinion on the question.


----------



## RedBull

Yes, it is, but it does not translate into better sound. Skylab have both, primarily only for headphhone, then he sold the XS because it produce the same SQ, for headphone.
Mine fortunately is very quiet with all range of impedance (spare the IEMs), from the very sensitive AD2K, HD650, HD800 and LCD 2.1


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Well, you said that it's less tubey. I deduce that it's still tubey ,so it's no more "speculation " but deduction. (and frankly I'll assume this each time that someone say that a particular tube "sound great" : there's no advantage of tubes over solid state except coloration & distorsion).
> Add to the mix a limited damping factor, but the hdvd800 does also this.
> I didn't "heard the amp", but I've read enough experts opinion on the question.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


>


 
  +1


----------



## LarsHP

Thanks again, RedBull. Now the hunt for a nice used HD800 begins!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


>


 
   
  Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> +1


 
  +2


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





larshp said:


> Thanks again, RedBull. Now the hunt for a nice used HD800 begins!


 
   
  Why you think they wont sound good out your Master 6 or Soloist?


----------



## LarsHP

Because I find the stock HD800 light sounding with a dry treble driven by a SS amp. I plan doing the Anaxilus mod (or similar) and with a bass boost at hand on the Leben, I can get the bass quantity I want, hopefully. The very low output impedance of my two SS amps doesn't help either, while I expect the Leben to have something to add there. Also, since I felt the 800 was dry sounding (in the treble), tubes might be a good choice. Who knows? Time will tell.


----------



## RedBull

^^ this way, please ==> http://www.head-fi.org/t/671693/valve-dac-no-point-in-valve-amp


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





larshp said:


> Because I find the stock HD800 light sounding with a dry treble driven by a SS amp. I plan doing the Anaxilus mod (or similar) and with a bass boost at hand on the Leben, I can get the bass quantity I want, hopefully. The very low output impedance of my two SS amps doesn't help either, while I expect the Leben to have something to add there. Also, since I felt the 800 was dry sounding (in the treble), tubes might be a good choice. Who knows? Time will tell.


 
   
  Awww man - just get the GS-X mk2


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





larshp said:


> Because I find the stock HD800 light sounding with a dry treble driven by a SS amp. I plan doing the Anaxilus mod (or similar) and with a bass boost at hand on the Leben, I can get the bass quantity I want, hopefully. The very low output impedance of my two SS amps doesn't help either, while I expect the Leben to have something to add there. Also, since I felt the 800 was dry sounding (in the treble), tubes might be a good choice. Who knows? Time will tell.


 
   
  Good hunting!  I hope you enjoy the Leben.
   
  Good thing is, I can enjoy Leben in two ways. 
  For acoustics, I leave the bass boost at neutral, for Hip hop or mainstream pop music, I boost the bass one notch.  This will smoothen the harsh mids from poorly recorded music and really add a good slam, more rounded slam, not the tight type kick.  Good stuff. It's like having 2 amps in one box with a switch of a button.


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Awww man - just get the GS-X mk2


 
   
  Get the Leben

   
  == Team tube amp ==


----------



## palmfish

Im not a "tube guy" but I will admit the Crack (with Speedball) does sound very good with the HD800. Ive never done it, but tested blind, I believe you would be hard-pressed to guess it was a tube amp.

And this is because "tube sound" is a myth IMO. Yes, an amp can sound "tubey," but that doesn't mean all tube amps sound tubey. Ive heard plenty that don't. Actually, after listening to many amps of all varieties, I believe that most amps, regardless of topology, sound fairly similar. This is the context of how the HD800 sounds far different from the HD600 - the difference between headphones is huge compared to the differences between amps. 

Using an amp or DAC to "tune" your system is just nuts to me.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Using an amp or DAC to "tune" your system is just nuts to me.


 
   
  But palmfish.   Amps are not cookie cutters.  All amps will not sound good with the HD800s.  So you have your Headphones - HD800s.  You'll just use any ole amp?  Or will you "tune" your chain with the amp that "you" think sounds better with your choice of headphone - "HD800"?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Awww man - just get the GS-X mk2


 
  This!


----------



## palmfish

preproman said:


> But palmfish.   Amps are not cookie cutters.  All amps will not sound good with the HD800s.  So you have your Headphones - HD800s.  You'll just use any ole amp?  Or will you "tune" your chain with the amp that "you" think sounds better with your choice of headphone - "HD800"?




My comment above does not account for amps that dont pair with a given headphone for certain reasons - output impedance being a big factor. My Carver sounded terrible with my HD800's to me, probably because the output impedance is around 600 ohms. On the other hand, my daughter liked the combo...

The Crack has a 100 ohm output impedance and plays better with the HD800. I listened to the Crack again just yesterday and it was nice - tight bass, clear treble, clean smooth background. A smidge darker and meatier than the new Bottlehead Mainline, which is as "solid state" sounding as any tube amp Ive heard. 

On paper, the Crack shouldnt sound good, but this just reinforces my opinion (based on personal experience) that for the most part, amps that are thoughtfully designed all sound much more similar than different. Im tempted to buy a Crack kit just for fun. I know, this coming from me -a died in the wool objectivist! I say its a hobby and its ok to have fun with it. And I will reiterate, the HD800 sounds good plugged into a Crack.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> . Yes, an amp can sound "tubey," but that doesn't mean all tube amps sound tubey. Ive heard plenty that don't.


 
  If you mean by "it doesn't sound tubey", that it sound like a regular solid state, then I'd guess there's no benefit of getting a "tube amp" over a "solid state" one.
  You get the tube amps for that tube sound, or I'm missing the point.
   
  Quote: 





> the difference between headphones is huge compared to the differences between amps.
> 
> Using an amp or DAC to "tune" your system is just nuts to me.


 
  This not what I  read often.  Just recently some head-fier tried to run the hd800  from an o2+ odac, and said it was an horrible experience, although he was unable to explain, except that there's "nothing musical" to the hd800 (I  must precise he listen house, techno, rock ...).
  I   guess he wouldn't be more happy with a bottlehead crack ?
  What drive me nuts it's the spreading of misinformation with answers like "crap in, crap out" ( I don't think that o2+dac is by any standard "crap", except for price) .   And stuff like "the hd800 scale well", as if you gonna reach the sky by spending endlessly more for a "better source".
  Or the concept of "synnergy" (transparent source is transparent)
  Also I don't think it's an accident  that the orpheus is drived with an amp with lot of tube (you know where the "lush sound" description, comes from).
  Beating the horse that is not yet completely dead, sorry.


----------



## BournePerfect

Someone hasn't heard a good tube amp yet. For shame. You're missing out on superior soundstaging, microdynamics, superior detail-all without the harshness or digital glare and flat 2D soundstaging that pervades 'typical' solid-state. Oh yeah, and all the musicality and emotion you can't shake a stick at-but it can't be measured yet so the O2 is king. Geez I wish I was 10 again, it was so _simple_ then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Someone hasn't heard a good tube amp yet. For shame. You're missing out on superior soundstaging, microdynamics, superior detail-all without the harshness or digital glare and flat 2D soundstaging that pervades 'typical' solid-state. Oh yeah, and all the musicality and emotion you can't shake a stick at-but it can't be measured yet so the O2 is king. Geez I wish I was 10 again, it was so _simple_ then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  +1


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Someone hasn't heard a good tube amp yet. For shame. You're missing out on superior soundstaging, microdynamics, superior detail-all without the harshness or digital glare and flat 2D soundstaging that pervades 'typical' solid-state. Oh yeah, and all the musicality and emotion you can't shake a stick at-but it can't be measured yet so the O2 is king. Geez I wish I was 10 again, it was so _simple_ then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  There's nothing magical about tubes. There is an electrical, measurable explanation for all the things you (think) hear from "good" tube amps. An amplifier is an electrical device, nothing more. It isn't emotional, musical, or any other poetic adjective you care to use.
   
  They can sound wonderful, and I have enjoyed them too, but I can say the same about solid state.


----------



## BournePerfect

Not sure where I referred to magical tubes. Not sure where I referred to anything other than 'typical' solid state either. I haven't heard a lot of high end ss, as I have tube amps. That will change, after my Leviathan is in house though. Transistors, tubes, whatever-it's about the implementation more than anything. I'm surprised there are still such circular arguments about these things around here. Oh wait-no I'm not. There always seems to be somebody(s) around with an agenda and a soapbox-and those willing to follow deafly.
   
  As for me-I rely on firsthand experience above all else. But hey, that's just me. Carry on you two, carry on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> measurable explanation


 
  This one. More than anything else,  the work done by any source is measurable (it output directly a signal) . Why people are talking of different amps, as if they were tasting wines ?
  Mmm you know that amp is more punchy ... mmm that amp has more soundstage.
  Could as well say , this amp is  "natural peach flavored , fresh and crisp, with a splash of sweetness"
  you know that same kind of literature used for wines.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> There's nothing magical about tubes. There is an electrical, measurable explanation for all the things you (think) hear from "good" tube amps. An amplifier is an electrical device, nothing more. It isn't emotional, musical, or any other poetic adjective you care to use.
> 
> They can sound wonderful, and I have enjoyed them too, but I can say the same about solid state.


 
   
  It must be nice to be incapable of hearing the differences between amps. I'd save a lot of money by plugging my HD800 right into my iPhone.
   
  IME there is a definite difference between the sound of tube and solid state amplifiers. Just look at guitar amplifiers where there are many models that come in both tube and solid state versions. They sound completely different.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> The Crack has a 100 ohm output impedance and plays better with the HD800.


 
   
  I enjoy my Sonett with the HD 800s on the IEC 120 ohm setting, it fattens up the bottom.  Sounds good to me.  But not with all headphones, and not all the time with the 800s.
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1


 
   
  It'd be great if you'd start to add some substance to all your 2,000 +1's.  Just saying...


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> I enjoy my Sonett with the HD 800s on the IEC 120 ohm setting, it fattens up the bottom.  Sounds good to me.  But not with all headphones, and not all the time with the 800s.
> 
> It'd be great if you'd start to add some substance to all your 2,000 +1's.  Just saying...


 
  +1
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  Seriously that is the most common thing I see her write all the time lol. All in good fun, but it tends to crack me up. Must be related to MH (Peter) lol.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## RedBull

bourneperfect said:


> Someone hasn't heard a good tube amp yet. For shame. You're missing out on superior soundstaging, microdynamics, superior detail-all without the harshness or digital glare and flat 2D soundstaging that pervades 'typical' solid-state. Oh yeah, and all the musicality and emotion you can't shake a stick at-but it can't be measured yet so the O2 is king. Geez I wish I was 10 again, it was so _simple_ then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




X10


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> +1
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  +1


----------



## BournePerfect

Lol.
   
  Hey Pete I'll still snatch that GSX from ya when you want. Better decide before I get on the Rag...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## Eee Pee

Sorry, I cracked.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Couldn't take it anymore!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

l0l!!!!!
   
  umm sometimes there isn't really much more to be said. anymore would be just redundant or would create more unnecessary questions and confusion.
   
  the +1 is easy and effective to implement into any post and makes for a short and concise yet meaningful response. it also helps the person i'm quoting, their comment gains credibility


----------



## dukeskd

-1 to y'all. Just one thing to everyone: SPL Phonitor + HD800 = the best.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Lol.
> 
> Hey Pete I'll still snatch that GSX from ya when you want. Better decide before I get on the Rag...
> 
> ...


 
  LoL, sorry Daniel, it's staying right here. But the Rag may by my secondary amp...we shall see.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> -1 to y'all. Just one thing to everyone: SPL Phonitor + HD800 = the best.


 
  But does that mean the Phonitor is adding it's own DISTORTIONS to the mix? WHY WOULD IT SOUND ANY DIFFERENT OR BETTER THAN ANY OTHER screwING AMP ON THE PLANET? WHY? WHY WHY WHY?!?!?! It caaaaan't!
   
  -Daniel
   
  tee hee


----------



## dallan

I've heard good tube amps and good SS amps.  Funny thing is though, my main SS amp sounds more tubey than my Tube amp, and my Tube amp is more analytical than my SS amp.  That said, the tube amp is way more "dynamic" sounding.  I like them both though.......of course not thrilled with my hybrid amp.


----------



## asdafaasda

Just finished selling all my other gear except my T50RPs, the HD800 will be my last home upgrade for the next few years. Actually, I should just block head-fi on my router after, or else an SR-009 might come along and ruin my college savings.

 Now, would anyone in Canada like to sell me their HD800s?


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> LoL, sorry Daniel, it's staying right here. But the Rag may by my secondary amp...we shall see.


 
  I'm hoping the Rag gets close-and saves me a grand. I just don't wanna have to run the Levi all the time-wouldn't want all it's distortions infecting the rest of my chain. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And DG-we understand. Really. Enough argumentative redundancy around here that a well-timed +1 is all it takes to curb the axegrinders, if only for a small moment even.  So thanks. 
   
  -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





dallan said:


> I've heard good tube amps and good SS amps.  Funny thing is though, my main SS amp sounds more tubey than my Tube amp, and my Tube amp is more analytical than my SS amp.  That said, the tube amp is way more "dynamic" sounding.  I like them both though.......of course not thrilled with my hybrid amp.


 
  Ever tried running the ZD as a pre into the V200? Or is that possible? I've been debating buying the V181 as an ss balanced option while I wait on the Levi...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> But does that mean the Phonitor is adding it's own DISTORTIONS to the mix? WHY WOULD IT SOUND ANY DIFFERENT OR BETTER THAN ANY OTHER screwING AMP ON THE PLANET? WHY? WHY WHY WHY?!?!?! It caaaaan't!


 
  Distorsions never meant that it sounds bad, and there's not an unique kind of distorsion. You know that  master engineer add sometimes purposefully distorsions ?  The Aphex aural exciter, is an exciter used a lot historically.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exciter_%28effect%29#Aphex_Aural_Exciter


----------



## chirawatf

My thought about dry sound.

When I used generic panasonic wall receptacle-->cardas in wall Ac cable-->power distributor (made from oyaide mt-us+ wattgate 381 rh + oyaide r1)-->ac cables to my computer, eximus dp1, bryston bha-1), the sound from all my headphones were dry (ps1000, lcd3, hd800).

Both bha-1 and eximus's internal amp had the same symtomps...dry unpleasant sound.

Then I change the wall receptacle to 2 of ESP (made from Bronze, 98% of copper) and connect my computer, bha-1, eximus dp1 directly with the same AC power cables.

Now I don't concern about dry sound again, it's gone about 90% 

I can't explain why but it did happen to me.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Distorsions never meant that it sounds bad, and there's not an unique kind of distorsion. You know that  master engineer add sometimes purposefully distorsions ?  The Aphex aural exciter, is an exciter used a lot historically.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exciter_%28effect%29#Aphex_Aural_Exciter


 
  No.


----------



## khaine1711

I love how some people automatically assign "better sounding" = "more distortion", especially when it comes to tube amp.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





khaine1711 said:


> I love how some people automatically assign "better sounding" = "more distortion", especially when it comes to tube amp.


 

 No reason to think otherwise. It can be subtle and  pleasing.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





khaine1711 said:


> I love how some people automatically assign "better sounding" = "more distortion", especially when it comes to tube amp.


 
  These are usually people who have only been exposed to cheaper, crappier tube amps. And 9.5 times out of ten, they haven't heard an EC amp (and many others). 
   
  -Daniel


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> No reason to think otherwise. It can be subtle and  pleasing.


 
  You don't know how the amp is designed, what internal parts are used, and why they are picked. Probably don't know how to operate a scope, reading/interpreting measurements or understanding topologies either. Yet making blanket statement like it must be distortion is ignorant at best.
   
  Krell amp (transistors, not even tube) for example, sounds more pleasant the higher up you go. Guess the higher models must have gimped itself by adding distortion?


----------



## asdafaasda

Has anyone ever seen or heard of a recorded case of HD800's drivers failing? I know dynamic drivers are durable, and Senns like the HD580s have been known to work for 10+ years.


----------



## longbowbbs

Hmmm....O2 or Decware.....So hard to decide......


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> Hmmm....O2 or Decware.....So hard to decide......


 
  ACK!!!  Oh, you were kidding...sheesh, almost had a heart attack there...


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





khaine1711 said:


> You don't know how the amp is designed, what internal parts are used, and why they are picked. Probably don't know how to operate a scope, reading/interpreting measurements or understanding topologies either. Yet making blanket statement like it must be distortion is ignorant at best.


 
  You don't know the concept of a black box. When you study a  black box, you study it in term of input and output, and don't care of the internal parts. Same for an amp : what kind of output you get for a particular input.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box
  Off course "subjective impressions" cannot be measured, but a transparent source can certainly.
  And a transparent source should always sound the same.
  And the only reason that a source  should sound different from a transparent one is ... that it's not transparent (omitting placebo & damping factor).


----------



## dallan

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Ever tried running the ZD as a pre into the V200? Or is that possible? I've been debating buying the V181 as an ss balanced option while I wait on the Levi...
> 
> -Daniel


 
  Yes it tightens it up, maybe a touch more soundstage and gives a lot of the ZD signature to the sound imo.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Not sure where I referred to magical tubes
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> superior soundstaging, microdynamics, superior detail...without the harshness or digital glare and flat 2D soundstaging...musicality and emotion
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  So if it isn't magic, how do you explain it?
   
  I'm not being a smart#@& - I agree that tube amps can sound really, really good - exactly as you describe. Yes, I have heard the ECBA, and most recently, enjoyed the Stax 009 paired with an Electra. Very, very nice!
   
  I have always struggled with where to draw the line between science, pseudo science, and pure bunk. Do I group tube amps in with all the ridiculous snake oil claims? Do I group them in with romantic "days gone by" affection? Or is there something about their topology that makes them somehow "more musical?" I don't know.
   
  And then I think about the old Carver challenge where Bob Carver made his $700 Model 1 solid state amp sound indistiguishable from a Conrad Johnson Premier Four tube amp costing 4X more. What is the explanation?


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> You don't know the concept of a black box. When you study a  black box, you study it in term of input and output, and don't care of the internal parts. Same for an amp : what kind of output you get for a particular input.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box
> Off course "subjective impressions" cannot be measured, but a transparent source can certainly.
> And a transparent source should always sound the same.
> And the only reason that a source  should sound different from a transparent one is ... that it's not transparent (omitting placebo & damping factor).


 
  I know exactly what a black box is (at least for software engineering). You don't "simplify" it to study amplifiers. Even so, you can't study the input and output. You don't have a scope, you don't even have measuring equipments. All you have is whatever info/spec the internet/the manufacturers give you (which isn't true in many of the case). Your ears aren't superhuman nor can they distinguish between say 0.1% THD and 0.8% THD. Please do not think your "home-brew" engineering knowledge could replace actual education. People don't become electrical engineers by looking up stuff on the internet and speculating.
   
  It's similar to claiming you will know exactly how a dish will taste when all you have is the nutrition table with Kcal and stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Bottom line is just because people find certain gears sounding better, does not mean that they add distortion. If you want to make that claim, better have the measurements, or at least the engineering knowledge to back it up.


----------



## bearFNF

Even the data taken will have a margin of error that will cause them to be slightly different every time to take the measurement.  You could do a statistically significant sample and get 'closer' to the mean but it still doesn't get you 100% accuracy.  Still goes back to what you like on any given day on any given system for that particular song...IMHO


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote:  





> Bottom line is just because people find certain gears sounding better, does not mean that they add distortion. If you want to make that claim, better have the measurements, or at least the engineering knowledge to back it up.


 
  Hum ok , you need experts and some kind of scientific authorities discussing on that matter.
  http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=59142


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Hum ok , you need experts and some kind of scientific authorities discussing on that matter.
> http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=59142


 
  Please do not give me some random link on some random dudes, especially HA ..., talking about general principles of audio. I hope you are knowledgeable enough to make strong statement and being able to back it up, without second opinions from the Internet.
   
  Have you yourself measured the Zana Deux, or the Bottlehead Crack? Do you know how the distortion figures translate into/affect sound? Can you hear the difference between two THD, says 0.8% and 1% - can you make it out in a blind test?


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> So if it isn't magic, how do you explain it?
> 
> I'm not being a smart#@& - I agree that tube amps can sound really, really good - exactly as you describe. Yes, I have heard the ECBA, and most recently, enjoyed the Stax 009 paired with an Electra. Very, very nice!
> 
> ...


 
  I guess what I'm saying is that our measuring/testing techniques are finite. They are not the be all end all. I agree that everything CAN be measured-someday. Everything is based in science. Do we currently have a way to measure every single thing that we hear. HELL NO. And even if we are one day able to do that-guess what??-everyone hears differently so it's mostly null and void on a person by person basis anyway. Using finite measurements to try and prove subjective differences/opinions shared by a (sometimes) overwhelming majority, is akin to sticking our heads in the sand and denying future scientific breakthroughs that would enlighten some of these subjectivities. I love how the objectivists are content to pigeonhole themselves into a corner with limited, finite, imperfect data-while the music lover already knows, feels, and comprehends things that may be light years away from being measured to any degree of subjective faithfulness. Pfft.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





khaine1711 said:


> Have you yourself measured the Zana Deux, or the Bottlehead Crack?


 
  The only fact that no measurements are provided by the manufacturers is a strong indication that these source are not transparent.
   
  Quote: 





> Do you know how the distortion figures translate into/affect sound?


 
  I have played with all kind of dsp, and  I have a clear idea of how distorsions could be pleasing.
  Have heard of bbe ?
   
  Quote: 





> Can you hear the difference between two THD, says 0.8% and 1% - can you make it out in a blind test?


 
  A  thd can certainly  be introduced artificially in the signal using dsp.
 My knowledge stop here, but I know where to you look for, if you insist.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I love how the objectivists are content to pigeonhole themselves into a corner with limited, finite, imperfect data-while the music lover already knows, feels, and comprehends things that may be light years away from being measured to any degree of subjective faithfulness. Pfft.


 
  And I love how subjectists hear things that are not even there.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> And I love how subjectists hear things that's not even there.
> 
> **on an O2**


 
   
*Agreed.*
   
*-*Daniel


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> The only fact that no measurements are provided by the manufacturers is a strong indication that these source are not transparent.
> 
> I have played with all kind of dsp, and  I have a clear idea of how distorsions could be pleasing.
> Have heard of bbe ?
> ...


 
  -The fact that you never heard, nor measured, nor having any idea on measurements of said amps makes your opinion invalid. Whether manufacturers make those measurements available to public or not is irrelevant. You have something to prove/back up, they don't.
   
  -I'm talking about hardware, not software induced distortion. Can you hear the difference between two amps, with different THD, reliably make it out of a blind test - and explain how does the distortion figure of said amp affect the sound? Can you even take a blind test between two amps, and reliably figure out which amp has more distortions?
   
  Basically what you're saying is: you have no engineering education, no direct experience with said products, don't fully understand how they work, don't know how to build/design one, yet you can claim, backed up by second/third opinions on the Internet, that "they must be distortion"  
   
  That's baseless assumption at best, and libelling at worst. And I should stop derailing the thread here.


----------



## songmic

I wonder what is the best - or the most expensive - OTL tube headphone amp currently existing in the market. OTL tube amps tend to be less expensive than their transformer-coupled counterparts because they don't have a output transformer as their name implies. Yet they are usually optimized for high-impedance headphones, especially Sennheiser HD600/650/800.
   
  The best sounding OTL headphone amp I've heard with the HD800 is Allnic HPA5000, hands down.
http://onsongaudio.com/hpa5000/
   

   
  Allnic amps are not well-known in Head-Fi, but I got to listen to it here in Korea and mother of God... I honestly didn't think I would find an OTL amp that could beat my maxed out ZDSE in its performance to drive the HD800. It was even better than the Bakoon HPA-21 in my opinion, another headphone amp made in Korea which is the best solid-state amp I've heard with the HD800. Unforunately, the HPA5000 is very expensive, priced at around $5K as its name suggests (one could buy a top-of-the-line electrostatic headphone amp or fully balanced amp with that kind of money!). The owner of Allnic claims that the HPA5000 is not only OTL but also OCL (output capacitor-less) in the strictest sense, I have no idea what that means but he says that is why the HPA5000 sounds so good. I only listened to it with the stock tubes but it was nevertheless the best sounding OTL amp, period. The downside of this amp is that it didn't sound that good with low-impedance headphones, including my LCD-3.
   
  The second best OTL headphone amp I've heard was my ZDSE, which I'm sure everyone's familiar with.
   
  I'm not sure about the HPA5000, but is anyone aware of an OTL amp that beats the ZDSE in sonic performance? I know several renowned OTL amps such as Schiit Valhalla, Bottlehead Crack w/ Speedball, Decware CSP2+, RSA Raptor, WBA Virtus-01, EarMax, EternalArts, and so on, but I haven't heard anyone claiming that any of these are superior to the ZDSE (I've heard the other way around). While I found an OTL amp that beats the ZDSE (albeit at more than double price), has anyone else?
   
  Also, *IS THERE SUCH A THING AS A "BALANCED" OTL HEADPHONE AMP?* It seems that every tube balanced headphone amp I've seen on the market is transformer-coupled. I am not an engineer, but does the inherent design of an OTL toplogy make it impossible to be built balanced? Why haven't I heard of any balanced OTL amp? Does anyone else know?


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Also, *IS THERE SUCH A THING AS A "BALANCED" OTL HEADPHONE AMP?* It seems that every tube balanced headphone amp I've seen on the market is transformer-coupled. I am not an engineer, but does the inherent design of an OTL toplogy make it impossible to be built balanced? Why haven't I heard of any balanced OTL amp? Does anyone else know?


 
   
  Balance OTL amp does exist (not for headphone though - unless you call speaker tap to He-6 headphone amp =p), and once you take a look at one you'll understand why they are rare. There's lots of reason why a balance (differential) valve amp is simply not desirable, and OTL is even less desirable. I could list a few if you want
  -Cost a tons
  -Serve as your secondary radiator/room heater/fireplace
  -Crap load of tubes
  -Wonky output R means it's very picky with speaker used
  -Does not necessary sound better than single-ended
   
  I now present to you the Atma Sphere (yes it's differential - it's also the "smallest" model)


----------



## jcx

"balanced output" ( == bridged drive ) causes each of the +,- amp outputs to see 1/2 of the load impedance
   
  this doesn't help with tubes directly driving dynamic headphones
   
  dynamic headphones are already too low Z for efficient tube direct drive by factors of 10-100x
   
  so you waste 2x the power for dubious advantage
   
  one "advantage" of balanced, bridged drive is some cancellation of even harmonics - getting rid of 2nd harmonic may rob the amp of "tube sound" - if such exits


----------



## ULUL

Did you think the Mainline sounded BETTER than the Crack on the HD800 per your opinion?  Or the reverse? You are one of the few who have heard both side by side.
   
  Thanks,
  UL
  Quote: 





palmfish said:


> My comment above does not account for amps that dont pair with a given headphone for certain reasons - output impedance being a big factor. My Carver sounded terrible with my HD800's to me, probably because the output impedance is around 600 ohms. On the other hand, my daughter liked the combo...
> 
> The Crack has a 100 ohm output impedance and plays better with the HD800. I listened to the Crack again just yesterday and it was nice - tight bass, clear treble, clean smooth background. A smidge darker and meatier than the new Bottlehead Mainline, which is as "solid state" sounding as any tube amp Ive heard.
> 
> On paper, the Crack shouldnt sound good, but this just reinforces my opinion (based on personal experience) that for the most part, amps that are thoughtfully designed all sound much more similar than different. Im tempted to buy a Crack kit just for fun. I know, this coming from me -a died in the wool objectivist! I say its a hobby and its ok to have fun with it. And I will reiterate, the HD800 sounds good plugged into a Crack.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Someone hasn't heard a good tube amp yet. For shame. You're missing out on superior soundstaging, microdynamics, superior detail-all without the harshness or digital glare and flat 2D soundstaging that pervades 'typical' solid-state. Oh yeah, and all the musicality and emotion you can't shake a stick at-but it can't be measured yet so the O2 is king. Geez I wish I was 10 again, it was so _simple_ then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wow - this sounds "exactly" like somebody else over on the other site
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  lol..WOW  
   
  From the tube amps I've heard.  They are not superior in "soundstaging, micro dynamics, or detail retrieval"  
   
  From the "good" SS maps I've heard - I've most certainly have not heard any kind of digital glare or flat 2d sound staging.
   
  I've heard harness in both SS and tube amps.  What you call musicality and emotion - I call "coloring" the sound - maybe it is and maybe it isn't.  
   
  The F1J and the SimAudio SS amps provides some of the best dynamic range I've ever heard in any amps with great detail and the GS-X mk2 is right on their heels.  So I really don't know what a "typical" SS amp is.  Are some are better than others? Of course - just like tube amps - some are better than others.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Wow - this sounds "exactly" like somebody else over on the other site
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think a great tube amp has all of that, but so do SS ones. The only thing tube amplifiers offer where SS are more limited by their very nature, is fine tuning options. Let's face it no headphones are perfect. However, tubes are a cost factor, even more so the nice ones.


----------



## Sorrodje

Okay , it's time to post here I think.
   
  I've just finished the complete thread read and it's both a very instructive and entertaining read while i'm waiting my new headphone. I found here in France a used hd800 for 600€ and i'm really looking forward the arrival of my last purchase. 
   
  I'm really happy to enter the family . Debates are as funny here as in my real family 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Thanks !
   
  Until now i owned or tried many headphones and considering my tastes ( I'm more analytical/neutral head ) I think I can't really be disappointed by this hd800. I just hope my unexpensive gear ( Microstreamer dac and Meier Audio Corda Jazz) that did a marvelous job for some hard-to-drive mid-fi heaphones like K501 and HD580 will permit me to enjoy enough this terrific babies. 
   
  Cheers!


----------



## RedBull

dallan said:


> I've heard good tube amps and good SS amps.  Funny thing is though, my main SS amp sounds more tubey than my Tube amp, and my Tube amp is more analytical than my SS amp.  That said, the tube amp is way more "dynamic" sounding.  I like them both though.......of course not thrilled with my hybrid amp.:wink_face:




I agree on dynamic. From what I heard, usually tube amp better on mid and treble dynamic, it 'shoot up' higher from quiet.
It decays's generally longer too (don't start debate which one is more correct please, cos I don't care), creating a sense of space better, esp. For room ensemble. Because of better dynamic, it create better sense of 3D too, ie, not flat.
But usually, the bass is not as tight as SS amp.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





redbull said:


> But usually, the bass is not as tight as SS amp.


 
   
  On a good tube amp if that happens, it's probably down to the tubes one is using.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





khaine1711 said:


> -The fact that you never heard, nor measured, nor having any idea on measurements of said amps makes your opinion invalid. Whether manufacturers make those measurements available to public or not is irrelevant. You have something to prove/back up, they don't.


 
  Rmaa test are easy to do. Should give you a good idea of your amp measure , compared to other. The trick is that you have to use the same line for comparison.
  http://audio.rightmark.org/products/rmaa.shtml
  I've already once done measurement for my xonar stx.
   
  Quote: 





> -I'm talking about hardware, not software induced distortion


 
  By your logic, why not stick to your old _Vinyls _, "I'm talking of sound generated from materials, not from those loosy digital files".
  100% digital is the way of future. If your source is doing anything interesting to the signal, there should be a way to emulate it.
  And anyways to record it: there are lot of "vynil rips" (albeit not necessarily legal) , with the typical "vynil sound", circulating on the web.
  There are also some  cd, with a tube sound added to them by master engineers.
   
  Quote: 





> Basically what you're saying is: you have no engineering education, no direct experience with said products,


 
  So your only way for you to make a point is trying to discredit me. Do you have any interest with the amp market ?


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





negura said:


> On a good tube amp if that happens, it's probably down to the tubes one is using.


 
   
  Yes, that's right.


----------



## drez

.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Wow - this sounds "exactly" like somebody else over on the other site
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I've already mentioned that I haven't heard many HIGH END ss amps-I have no doubt that your GSX has all of the mentioned qualities of a great tube amp-based on my reading. My qualm is that the tube-bashing folks around here clearly haven't heard a great tube amp yet-which imo give up NOTHING to great ss amps. And 'typical' ss amps sure as day aren't the 3-8K Sim Audio amps...really?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm more referring to the usual mid-fi ss amps that are common around here-and I've tried a ton of them. I'd like to try the Soloist and V200 which are so popular here with the HD800-but bottom line is I'm not gonna take a step backwards from the ZDSE-hence my incoming Leviathan, and potential GSX or Rag for a great ss.
   
  It's hard taking some of your posts seriously Prep, when you're a self-claimed SS biased listener anyway. At least I try both ends of the spectrum and post accordingly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Yes, that's right.


 
  x3
   
  -Daniel


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> It's hard taking some of your posts seriously Prep, when you're a self-claimed SS biased listener anyway. At least I try both ends of the spectrum and post accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've also tried "a few" tube amps.  I just preferred my SS amp to the ones I've tried - that's all.  No I haven't tried them all and for me it's going to end up being - I think anyway.  The Dynahi or a EC tube amp for my HD800s.  That's if I find the Dyanhi or EC amps are an improvement over the GS-X mk2 that is.


----------



## palmfish

ulul said:


> Did you think the Mainline sounded BETTER than the Crack on the HD800 per your opinion?  Or the reverse? You are one of the few who have heard both side by side.
> 
> Thanks,
> UL




Like all components, I don't think anyone can say one sounds "better" than the other. With my HD800's, the Crack w/Speedball sounded a little darker and fuller in the midbass than the mainline - more meat on the bone, so to speak. The mainline sounded a little brighter and thinner to me. But what I heard as thinner and brighter the person sitting next to me heard as a larger soundstage. Hard to say for sure. 

They were both very neutral sounding overall to me, but IMO the Crack is the better match for the HD800 while I suspect the Mainline would be a better match for something like the HD650 or LCD-2.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I've also tried "a few" tube amps.  I just preferred my SS amp to the ones I've tried - that's all.  No I haven't tried them all and for me it's going to end up being - I think anyway.  The Dynahi or a EC tube amp for my HD800s.  That's if I find the Dyanhi or EC amps are an improvement over the GS-X mk2 that is.


 
  And I'm just the opposite-I haven't tried a lot of high end ss. That will change soon though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Like all components, I don't think anyone can say one sounds "better" than the other. With my HD800's, the Crack w/Speedball sounded a little darker and fuller in the midbass than the mainline - more meat on the bone, so to speak. The mainline sounded a little brighter and thinner to me. But what I heard as thinner and brighter the person sitting next to me heard as a larger soundstage. Hard to say for sure.
> 
> They were both very neutral sounding overall to me, but IMO the Crack is the better match for the HD800 while I suspect the Mainline would be a better match for something like the HD650 or LCD-2.


 
  Well it's pretty easy to say which sounds better _to you, _right?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Taliesin

has anyone here tried the hd800 out of the audiolab M-dac headphone output?


----------



## palmfish

bourneperfect said:


> My qualm is that the tube-bashing folks around here clearly haven't heard a great tube amp yet-which imo give up NOTHING to great ss amps.
> 
> It's hard taking some of your posts seriously Prep, when you're a self-claimed SS biased listener anyway. At least I try both ends of the spectrum and post accordingly.
> 
> ...




I think you are generalizing some of us as a group of "tube bashing," measurement worshipping objectivists - and it's simply not the case.

You mentioned yesterday that objectivists "pigeonhole themselves into a corner." Can you not also see how subjectivists do this too? An objectivist can listen to a tube amp and enjoy it very much - acknowledge that it possesses qualities that are pleasing. Likewise, shouldn't a subjectivist be able to acknowledge that there is nothing intrinsically special about tube amps and that anyone with the knowledge and skill to design an amp can build a SS amp that sounds exactly like a ZDSE or ECBA.

After I auditioned (and really enjoyed) the Crack, I took my headphones over to my rig and booted up the last song ("Postmodern Blues" - Patricia Barber) I had listened to on the Crack. Different upstream gear, of course (Crack was fed from a Mac running Amarra through a Bottlehead DAC - I streamed the song from MOG with my netbook via USB to my Asus Essence One), but the results were very very similar. I enjoyed my setup just as much and no significant differences jumped out at me.

And if you haven't done so, I encourage you to read about the Carver challenge. I think it illustrates how all amplifiers are simply electronic devices and can be made to sound like whatever the designer wants it to - ie: the stereotypical "euphonic tube sound" or "clinical solid state sound" is less a product of the topology and more a product of the taste/skill of the designer.


----------



## palmfish

bourneperfect said:


> Well it's pretty easy to say which sounds better _to you,_ right?
> 
> -Daniel




Yes, I am comfortable stating my personal preference. What's your point?


----------



## extrabigmehdi

So far the most "musical" experience I  managed to get while listening to compilations such like Buddha bar , or cafe del mar:
  using a basic foam mod (more meaty bass, tamed treble resonances) , + spl transient designer on dsp chain  to "fatten" the decay.
   

  Sounds like an enhanced hd595,  relaxing, but with much more clarity & bass.
  I  guess that for the most "aggressive" stuff , I  should stick to my srh940.
   
  I got limited success with crossfeeds, I rather not use them. 
  And no need to eq, with the "foam mod".


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Yes, I am comfortable stating my personal preference. What's your point?


 
  Um...
   
  Quote: 





palmfish said:


> *Like all components, I don't think anyone can say one sounds "better" than the other.*


 





   
   
   
  Also, let me know when you hear an SS amp that sounds _exactly _like a ZDSE or ECBA-I'll be first onboard! 
   
  -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> So far the most "musical" experience I  managed to get while listening to compilations such like Buddha bar , or cafe del mar:
> using a basic foam mod (more meaty bass, tamed treble resonances) , + spl transient designer on dsp chain  to "fatten" the decay.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  So.....you've found another way to add distortions that make it 'musical' for you....not using tubes. But, distortions just the same. Foam mods, eq, transient tinkerings. Good on ya!
   
  -Daniel


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Also, let me know when you hear an SS amp that sounds _exactly _like a ZDSE or ECBA-I'll be first onboard!


 
  Record output from your ZDSE.
  Play the result from a transparent SS amp (you know,  one of those  that measure  well).
  Then let's see the result ....


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Record output from your ZDSE.
> Play the result from a transparent SS amp (you know,  one of those  that measure  well).
> Then let's see the result ....


 
   
  -1
   
  -Daniel


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> So.....you've found another way to add distortions that make it 'musical' for you....not using tubes. But, distortions just the same. Foam mods, eq, transient tinkerings. Good on ya!
> 
> -Daniel


 
  Yes .... But people here are refuting here that tube  could "sound better" because of the added distortion.
  I've never refuted  that tube could sound better, I'm rather looking for rational explanations.


----------



## BournePerfect

Then look for it in the sound science forums, and do us all a favor and stop spamming the *HD 800* *APPRECIATION THREAD.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*
















   
*-Daniel*


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Then look for it in the sound science forums, and do us all a favor and stop spamming the *HD 800* *APPRECIATION THREAD.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Kendoji

Haha it seems like you guys have been arguing for the past few pages, but I'm still not quite sure about what.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Then look for it in the sound science forums, and do us all a favor and stop spamming the *HD 800* *APPRECIATION THREAD. *
> *-Daniel*


 

 Sorry, I thought it was the appreciation thread for amps & cables good for the hd800.
  With you repeating like a broken disc how awesome the hd800 sounds good from a ZDSE, I  think we got the point.


----------



## palmfish

bourneperfect said:


> Um...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




If you had read (and understood) my comment in its entirety, you would have known that I was saying that I do not believe one should make broad universal comments that one amp is better than another. The context of my comment was clearly that I was stating my own personal preference for one over the other with the HD800 during that particular listening session. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you simply misunderstood and did not purposely take my comment out of context to prove some point.

As for your sarcasm about telling you when I hear a SS amp that sounds exactly like a ZDSE or ECBA...do you not see the irony in your willingness to pigeonhole yourself with your confidence that you believe it is impossible?

Double standards...


----------



## Kendoji

Erm, so I'm now going to go ahead and post about my appreciation of the HD 800.  
   
  I've had it for a few weeks now, and I'm liking it more and more.  What's surprising to me is that I increasingly like it with types of music that I anticipated I would always prefer my HE-500 for, like metal and heavy rock.  But even with relatively lo-fi music I'm starting to prefer the space and detail of the HD 800.  I've been listening to a fair bit of black metal recently, like the new Vhol and Darkestrah albums, and at the moment I prefer both on the Sennheisers.  It might still be a honeymoon period, but right now I just can't get enough of that beautifully detailed and spacious sound.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> If you had read (and understood) my comment in its entirety, you would have known that I was saying that I do not believe one should make broad universal comments that one amp is better than another. The context of my comment was clearly that I was stating my own personal preference for one over the other with the HD800 during that particular listening session. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you simply misunderstood and did not purposely take my comment out of context to prove some point.
> 
> As for your sarcasm about telling you when I hear a SS amp that sounds exactly like a ZDSE or ECBA...do you not see the irony in your willingness to pigeonhole yourself with your confidence that you believe it is impossible?
> 
> Double standards...


 
  I didn't say it was impossible-in fact I said I'd be first onboard as I much prefer the ease of ss over the hassle of tubes. I've also clearly stated a few times that I haven't heard a lot of high end ss amps (YET), so my opinion will probably change. I've listened to PLENTY of mid-fi ss amps with the HD800 though-and frankly they all sounded like s*** one way or another-especially when compared to the ZDSE-but obviously that must be expected at the price differences. Speaking of s***-I JUST placed an order for a Mjolnir to try out with my DP-1/HD800...hoping to be impressed! 
   
  And please don't try and offend me with the double standards comment-I speak only from my personal experiences as best I can, and am willing to put my money where my mouth is with this hobby. Thanks.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Erm, so I'm now going to go ahead and post about my appreciation of the HD 800.
> 
> I've had it for a few weeks now, and I'm liking it more and more.  What's surprising to me is that I increasingly like it with types of music that I anticipated I would always prefer my HE-500 for, like metal and heavy rock.  But even with relatively lo-fi music I'm starting to prefer the space and detail of the HD 800.  I've been listening to a fair bit of black metal recently, like the new Vhol and Darkestrah albums, and at the moment I prefer both on the Sennheisers.  It might still be a honeymoon period, but right now I just can't get enough of that beautifully detailed and spacious sound.


 
  Awesome-I always wanted to try the HD800/V200 combo! I just ordered an MJ so I'll post some impressions too-along with comparisons to my former ZDSE (same dac, but balanced to MJ).
   
  -Daniel


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I've listened to PLENTY of mid-fi ss amps with the HD800 though-and frankly they all sounded like s*** one way or another-especially when compared to the ZDSE-but obviously that must be expected at the price differences.


 
   
  I'd be curious of your reactions with the HDVD800 or Violectric HPA V200 then.
  If all the ss amp sounds like s** including the high end one, you'd just have to admit you like tube sounds.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Did I say that ? I was talking of transparency. Transparent should always sound same, a subtlety you seem to miss.
> 
> EDIT:


 
  No not really. Transparency is only transparent til you hear something you couldn't before. For instance the Dynalo was long considered one of the most transparent amps you could buy. Small problem-my ZDSE (
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) dug much further into the recording, revealing depth to textures, details across the spectrum, and outright TROUNCED my Dynalo across the board (except for digital glare, and brittleness). So tell me which was more 'transparent'?
   
  'Transparency' isn't as cut and dry as we tend to believe.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Kendoji

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Awesome-I always wanted to try the HD800/V200 combo! I just ordered an MJ so I'll post some impressions too-along with comparisons to my former ZDSE (same dac, but balanced to MJ).
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  Nice!  My current setup is basically the most high-end one I've heard, so I don't have a lot to compare with, but for what it's worth the Violectric stack seems to sound very good with the HD 800.  The Mjolnir has a reputation for being aggressive, so I'm curious how it will work with your HD 800.  
   
  Most of all, I'm looking forward to my Taboo MKIII arriving - it should ship any time now.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I'd be curious of your reactions with the HDVD800 or Violectric HPA V200 then.
> If all the ss amp sounds like s** including the high end one, you'd just have to admit you like tube sounds.


 
  *all the ss amps I've owned*
  Stop putting words in my mouth. I would like to hear both of those amps-but I have a more transparent one being built as we speak.  Here's hoping the Mjolnir can tide me over.
   
  You go listen to a ZDSE, and if that sounds like s*** to you, you'd just have to admit you like digital glare, 2D imaging, lack of texture, and music in general.  Amirite?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Nice!  My current setup is basically the most high-end one I've heard, so I don't have a lot to compare with, but for what it's worth the Violectric stack seems to sound very good with the HD 800.  The Mjolnir has a reputation for being aggressive, so I'm curious how it will work with your HD 800.
> 
> Most of all, I'm looking forward to my Taboo MKIII arriving - it should ship any time now.


 
  Very nice-I've almost pulled the trigger on a Decware numerous times-I'm sure you'll love that Taboo with the Senns. Regarding the Mjolnir, it seems that a lot of the bright/aggressive comments have stemmed from pairing it with the Gungnir it seems. My Eximus is on the sweet (not warm) side, and I've heard those who's opinions I trust say that the MJ is smooth and dynamic. We shall see. Enjoy that Violectric stack-I'm sure it would cost serious $$ too beat it by a fair bit. Good choice!
   
  -Daniel


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> 'Transparency' isn't as cut and dry as we tend to believe.


 
  Hmmm, I've done a google search, it seem that the "scientific" word of transparency seems reserved when you can't make distinction between a lossy & lossless file. While there's is an audiophile understanding of the words "transparent source", which off course don't follow a strict definition:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/220770/describing-sound-a-glossary
  Well,  it's seems to me more a problem of vocabulary than anything.
  But my understanding from  HA and even elsewhere  is that all source with good specs (low thd, freq response, output impedance etc)
  should sound same, which is very "cut and dry".
   
  This what I've been to told once at kvr forum, a place you'd see audio engineers, dsp developpers:
  Quote: 





> I'd strongly recommend against valves in any reference piece of kit that one wants linearity from/total same results.


 
  Which means valve (= tube amp)  have non linear distorsions.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> *all the ss amps I've owned*
> Stop putting words in my mouth. I would like to hear both of those amps-but I have a more transparent one being built as we speak.  Here's hoping the Mjolnir can tide me over.


 
  If you want it to be rephrased , if you find a solid state amp that you like with your hd800, wake me up.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> If you want it to be rephrased , if you find a solid state amp that you like with your hd800, wake me up.


 
  Wakey wakey. I enjoyed the m-Stage, Auditor, and Meier Rock with the HD 800s.  I loathed the Dynalo, TTVJ Fet-A, vintage KA3500, countless others.
   
  Sorry for your short nap.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Wakey wakey. I enjoyed the m-Stage, Auditor, and Meier Rock with the HD 800s.


 
  Hum ok. Did you listen to them extensively ? Did you find a lot of difference between the ss amps you like ?
  At least you recommend a model that doesn't break the bank.


----------



## RedBull

kendoji said:


> Nice!  My current setup is basically the most high-end one I've heard, so I don't have a lot to compare with, but for what it's worth the Violectric stack seems to sound very good with the HD 800.  The Mjolnir has a reputation for being aggressive, so I'm curious how it will work with your HD 800.
> 
> Most of all, I'm looking forward to my Taboo MKIII arriving - it should ship any time now.




Taboo mk iii, wow. Would like to hear your comparison to V200 please. Thanks,


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> No not really. Transparency is only transparent til you hear something you couldn't before. For instance the Dynalo was long considered one of the most transparent amps you could buy. Small problem-my ZDSE (
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Can you please explain what this digital glare means to you?  I've read what it means to others on the other site.  Just want to hear your meaning.. 
   
  Thanks.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Hum ok. Did you listen to them extensively ? Did you find a lot of difference between the ss amps you like ?
> At least you recommend a model that doesn't break the bank.


 
  Yes-in fact I've owned the m-Stage 3 times now lol. The m-Stage and Phonitor are about as different sounding as you can get. The m-Stage is very warm, and sounds somewhat congested compared to other amps, esp the Auditor-which is extremely detailed, transparent(!) and spacious. I did find the Auditor/HD800 combo distracting at times-I think because of the somewhat unnatural soundstaging of the Auditor caused random frequencies to sound sucked out at times and tended to make some vocals/instruments distractingly wonky sounding at times. The Rock I didn't use for an extensive period-but if memory serves it reminded me of the m-Stage, but with muddier bass (and more quantity).
   
   
  Quote: 





preproman said:


> Can you please explain what this digital glare means to you?  I've read what it means to others on the other site.  Just want to hear your meaning..
> 
> Thanks.


 
  I guess it's not something I would have ever noticed until I got used to the ZDSE, then went back to more ss amps lately. I guess it kind of seems to me like there's a constant digital sheen or fog over ALL frequencies-kind of like a subtle piercing treble, but much less noticeable because it is even throughout. Kinda reminds me of the difference between a good NOS dac vs. most delta-sigmas, if that's something you can relate to...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I guess it's not something I would have ever noticed until I got used to the ZDSE, then went back to more ss amps lately. I guess it kind of seems to me like there's a constant digital sheen or fog over ALL frequencies-kind of like a subtle piercing treble, but much less noticeable because it is even throughout. Kinda reminds me of the difference between a good NOS dac vs. most delta-sigmas, if that's something you can relate to...
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
   
  Cool - Gotcha....


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Nice!  My current setup is basically the most high-end one I've heard, so I don't have a lot to compare with, but for what it's worth the Violectric stack seems to sound very good with the HD 800.  The Mjolnir has a reputation for being aggressive, so I'm curious how it will work with your HD 800.
> 
> Most of all, I'm looking forward to my Taboo MKIII arriving - it should ship any time now.


 
  Your gonna love the Taboo MKIII, I think, next is tube rolling...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Wow, lot of posts to skip over, with the old married couple arguing....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 poke poke


----------



## LarsHP

bearFNF you really, really made me laugh!


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Awesome-I always wanted to try the HD800/V200 combo! I just ordered an MJ so I'll post some impressions too-along with comparisons to my former ZDSE (same dac, but balanced to MJ).
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
   
  MJ + HD800s not my favorite.  Now LCD-3s with the MJ = great pair..
   
  Just saying..  YMMV..


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





songmic said:


> I wonder what is the best - or the most expensive - OTL tube headphone amp currently existing in the market. OTL tube amps tend to be less expensive than their transformer-coupled counterparts because they don't have a output transformer as their name implies. Yet they are usually optimized for high-impedance headphones, especially Sennheiser HD600/650/800.
> 
> The best sounding OTL headphone amp I've heard with the HD800 is Allnic HPA5000, hands down.
> http://onsongaudio.com/hpa5000/
> ...


 
   
  i heard this amp at the chicago meet last month with the HE-500. it was amazing. it almost brought me to tears, the HE-500 sounded so ******* unbelievably good, so warm, rich, so full of emotion. so dynamic and powerful yet sweet and romantic, i preferred the HE-500 to the abyss+liquid gold combo with this amp, it was just so musical and good sounding. i can only imagine how good it would sound with my beyerdynamic T1, i wish i had taken the time to test it out and see how it compared to my much cheaper WA2.
   
  this amp i think would be one i would really like to own one day as an endgame. 5 watts into 50 ohms, output transformer-less and output capacitor-less, about as pure tube as you can get.
   
  i also momentarily heard it with grado RS1, they did sound pretty good too, but not much better than my WA6-SE imo. grados will always be grados...


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Cool - Gotcha....


 
  Make sense, or no? Anyway it's the best I could explain it.  Just, sort of reminds me of a slight digital artificial sound. Granted, I wouldn't be slightly surprised if top end ss (GSX etc) amps don't exhibit it, but it's pretty easy to notice on a lot of lower ss amps. Granted I never really noticed it on the m-Stage, but that is so warm sounding and somewhat muddled (but GREAT at it's price!) that probably masked that a little bit.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## MickeyVee

Lost in the past few pages of discussion - I'ld like to know also - anyone tried the HD800 out of the AudioLab M-DAC HP out?
  Quote: 





taliesin said:


> has anyone here tried the hd800 out of the audiolab M-dac headphone output?


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





preproman said:


> MJ + HD800s not my favorite.  Now LCD-3s with the MJ = great pair..
> 
> Just saying..  YMMV..


 
  Well the 15 day trial sure makes things easier. 
   
  -Daniel


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Make sense, or no? Anyway it's the best I could explain it.  Just, sort of reminds me of a slight digital artificial sound. Granted, I wouldn't be slightly surprised if top end ss (GSX etc) amps don't exhibit it, but it's pretty easy to notice on a lot of lower ss amps. Granted I never really noticed it on the m-Stage, but that is so warm sounding and somewhat muddled (but GREAT at it's price!) that probably masked that a little bit.
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  Of course it makes sense.  I'm also sure it exists.  I'm just not sure I've heard it or not.  I have to compare the GS-X mk2 to one of the EC tube amps...


----------



## BournePerfect

IME, most changes I notice (subtle ones anyway) usually come from the downgrade, not the upgrade. Also, paramount above all is extended listening with your own rig, til the differences (if there) are much easier to notice. Training your ears to hear, if you will. I find this to be a much more realistic and pleasurable approach than, say, looking at a chart and climbing a clock tower. IMO.
   
  Also, the GSX mkii is number 1 on my purchase list after my Leviathan arrives. But I will more than likely take a strong look at the Rag impressions before making that deposit.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





larshp said:


> bearFNF you really, really made me laugh!


 
  Cheers, glad I could help...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Lost in the past few pages of discussion - I'ld like to know also - anyone tried the HD800 out of the AudioLab M-DAC HP out?


 
  try this thread, especially post 45, there may be more in there
http://www.head-fi.org/t/590442/replacing-my-m-dac/30#post_9603446


----------



## negura

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Nice!  My current setup is basically the most high-end one I've heard, so I don't have a lot to compare with, but for what it's worth the Violectric stack seems to sound very good with the HD 800.  The Mjolnir has a reputation for being aggressive, so I'm curious how it will work with your HD 800.
> 
> Most of all, I'm looking forward to my Taboo MKIII arriving - it should ship any time now.


 
   
  Whatever you do go balanced asap. The Taboo w. balanced headphones cable is something else. It was impressive before with the LCD-3s, but now it's gone up a notch again. The HD800s are also supposed to scale a lot when balanced.
   
  Oh yeah and then there's tube rolling.


----------



## MickeyVee

Ouch. Thanks! May demo it just for kicks. Was thinking MDAC & WA2 but to keep things simple, just may go WA7 at 1/2 the price. Not looking for an ultimate combo but would like one setup up on the Bifrost/Lyr.
  Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Cheers, glad I could help...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Well the 15 day trial sure makes things easier.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  Just pick up the LCD-3s.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Just pick up the LCD-3s.


 
   
  +1


----------



## RedBull

+1 most noticable is downgrade, not upgrade.


----------



## MR22

I wanted to come back on here what would probably now be a month after I bought my HD800/WA Firefly combo and I'm now really appreciating it, I'm now actually noticing the larger audio spectrum over the old HD590's that I preferred previously 
   
  very happy!
   
  about the only things I'm not a huge fan of are little cosmetic things now!


----------



## Kendoji

Do you mean the build quality?  I have to say that's the most disappointing thing about Sennheiser headphones for me.  Although the design is great and they look fantastic, they tend to feel very flimsy and plasticky.  I'm constantly worried about chipping the paint on the HD 800.  The demo model in a local shop looked horrendous, with huge paint chips all over the headphone, it was terrifying to behold.


----------



## MR22

Nah not that, I cannot imagine what they were doing with their HD800 to chip them! mine seem very resilliant, my cosmetic things are:
   
  the foil grill that goes around the outsides is not sturdy and if I put a finger on it by accident when lifting the phones off my head it bends
  I hate the dual side cable, every so often I forget it's there and almost neck myself 
  I'm sure it's some sort of requirement for the quality however the thickness and weight of the cable is forever reminding me it's there 
  lastly that they weigh a bit much, I know in theory it's all for quality, but my old 590's I could wear for 4-6 hour periods with no issue at all
   
  so... as I said, cosmetic really, the sound is great, the Bass & Treble extension as well as being quite a smooth sound (best I can describe it) works wonders with the Euphoric trance I love


----------



## Solude

I put I tiny ding in the paint of mine by resting it on a desk over a towel.  Super strong paint


----------



## preproman

I'm findng the coloware paint job (glossy paint) is proving to be most durable compared to the stock paint mess job.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I'm findng the coloware paint job (glossy paint) is proving to be most durable compared to the stock paint mess job.


 
  This is why I'm (secretly) saving up for a Colorware HD 800..


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> This is why I'm (secretly) saving up for a Colorware HD 800..


 
   
  I might be wrong.  But I think I heard they're doing re paint jobs now..


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I might be wrong.  But I think I heard they're doing re paint jobs now..


 

 Send in IS back for $299, so it's a good way to refresh a slightly dinted/scratched HD 800 and get a 1 year extended warranty.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> 100+ posts since a day ago when I was last on.
> 
> I've laughed, I've cried, I got angry a bit.. I felt disorientated at times.. But very entertaining folks!! Especially these guys
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm the man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## scottiebabie

hey guys i refrained from posting til i had a few weeks with this HD800 (#13xxx) i picked up recently. i have a AudioGd phoenix & only a simple custom OPT SET EL84/12ax7 5watt amp to drive them at the moment. while the HD800 sounded decent on the Pheonix, it really came alive on tubes. huge natural (to me) soundstage, very detail & extended up top, focus mids & deep bass with decent slam (as much as a PS500 to my ears). it does have a grainy quality to the sound esp at high(er) volumes that i like. got a 15" Cardas cable from another headfier mainly for the extend length but on initial 1 day listening, i found that bass seems fuller (& just a mite slower it would seem), details seems ever so slightly flushed out & the graininess (stock cable) seems tamer. all in all, im pretty surprized at the changes in cabling. fwiw, i also have an incoming full recon Fisher 400 tube receiver & a modern Audio Space Galaxy 300b -both with headphone outs tapped off the trafo with 470ohm series resistors if im not incorrect- to try out as i attempt to build a rig round these HD800s. while i cannot say if these cans are the endgame for me, i can say that with the simple tube amp & cardas cable, this HD800 is the singular best headphone i have listened to. it exceeds my full speaker rig in flushing details & provides as much sonic pleasure as the speakers (& i dont believe i have a crap speaker rig IMO). for sure, in the later evenings, it brings a smile to my face when i cannot crank up the stereo. im sooo glad i joined the HD800 club!!! Viva La Senn....!!! EDIT:tried to put in separate paragraphs but it doesnt seem to be working for me so pardon the long paragraph!


----------



## skeptic

I sometimes forget just how good the hd800's really are when I'm using them for casual gaming, home theater purposes or new music discovery via mog.  I'm not saying that pop and rock aren't enjoyable on hd800's (far from it), but it is when I sit down and really listen to some well recorded classical, jazz or other acoustic music, and immerse myself in the incredible realism, timbre, detail and sound stage these cans have to offer, that my jaw drops all over again.  I found myself rooted to my seat last night at 1:30 a.m. listening to Pierre Fournier's Bach Cello Suites (http://www.amazon.com/Suites-Solo-Cello-Johann-Sebastian/dp/B000001GRZ/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top ).  Simply wonderful.  I couldn't bring myself to pry them off and go to bed.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> hey guys i refrained from posting til i had a few weeks with this HD800 (#13xxx) i picked up recently. i have a AudioGd phoenix & only a simple custom OPT SET EL84/12ax7 5watt amp to drive them at the moment. while the HD800 sounded decent on the Pheonix, it really came alive on tubes. huge natural (to me) soundstage, very detail & extended up top, focus mids & deep bass with decent slam (as much as a PS500 to my ears). it does have a grainy quality to the sound esp at high(er) volumes that i like. got a 15" Cardas cable from another headfier mainly for the extend length but on initial 1 day listening, i found that bass seems fuller (& just a mite slower it would seem), details seems ever so slightly flushed out & the graininess (stock cable) seems tamer. all in all, im pretty surprized at the changes in cabling. fwiw, i also have an incoming full recon Fisher 400 tube receiver & a modern Audio Space Galaxy 300b -both with headphone outs tapped off the trafo with 470ohm series resistors if im not incorrect- to try out as i attempt to build a rig round these HD800s. while i cannot say if these cans are the endgame for me, i can say that with the simple tube amp & cardas cable, this HD800 is the singular best headphone i have listened to. it exceeds my full speaker rig in flushing details & provides as much sonic pleasure as the speakers (& i dont believe i have a crap speaker rig IMO). for sure, in the later evenings, it brings a smile to my face when i cannot crank up the stereo. im sooo glad i joined the HD800 club!!! Viva La Senn....!!! EDIT:tried to put in separate paragraphs but it doesnt seem to be working for me so pardon the long paragraph!


 
  Nice impressions and welcome to best club in town!


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





skeptic said:


> I'm not saying that pop and rock aren't enjoyable on hd800's (far from it), but it is when I sit down and really listen to some well recorded classical, jazz or other acoustic music, and immerse myself in the incredible realism, timbre,


 
  Well so far the genre that work best for me on  hd800 (without mod or trick):
  - classical
  - dark metal
  - dark ambient
  - etheral stuff
   
  I'd be curious of which pop or rock you enjoy on your hd800 .
  It's really not a surprise that the hd800 succeed for classical.


----------



## scottiebabie

thxs bud. so far, im super impressed by them. i also briefly tried out a LCD2v2 powered by a ****t Gungir & Mjolnir (or something like that) & i can safely say that my HD800 with the cheap ($300) tube amp out classed it in almost everyway including -believe it or not- bass, both in extension & slam! its weirding me out that my HD800 out slams the (in)famous Audeze!!!


----------



## jjshin23

Just picked up a Sansui Receiver to run the HD800 off them.  Wanted to see if it would be better than Mojo + HD800.  Mojo with my LCD3 is great but not so much with the HD800.  Hope it gets better.


----------



## scottiebabie

ran the HD800 off a Sansui AU-517 & though good, its no where close to what i hear from tubes. i hear harshness up top where i dont on tubes but it could also be cos of the old caps on the vintage Sansui. also sounds is more flat with SS while its more full bodies with soundstage & depth on the tube amp.


----------



## MR22

well, not sure what's happening to yours, I throw mine around a bit and not a single chip so far, I don't have a headphone stand or anything, they just get dumped in the same spot the amp is... no padding or anything, maybe it's just a matter of time


----------



## LarsHP

I hope to get a similar experience with my Leben CS300 (tube amp). Heard the HD800 on a high end SS amp and thought it sounded light and with a dry treble. No HD800 for me! Ha! But then I saw the Leben which also has a bass boost switch and thought: I will give it a try. The amp is on the way, and the HD800 is next.


----------



## persona1138

Hey all, first time poster and I apologize if my question has been covered somewhere else in this thread...

I just ordered my HD 800's and I'm also in the market for a DAC/Amp to use with my MacBook Pro. Potentially a Schiit or maybe Sennheiser's own HDVD 800.

I was wondering if you guys knew of any HD 800 balanced XLR cables. I've seen some third-party ones for ridiculous prices (over $600), and I've also seen that in the UK, some retailers have a listing for a Sennheiser-manufactured one that is "coming soon" (I live in the States.) Here's a link:

http://www.custom-cable.co.uk/sennheiser-hd800-xlr-connecting-cable.html

...Anyway, if you guys have any suggestions for a good after-market balanced cable for the HD 800's, or if you happen to know when this Sennheiser balanced cable will be released (if it's real), I'd really appreciate it!

Also, if you have any suggestions for a good DAC/Amp for the Sennheiser HD 800's (in addition to the ones people have already mentioned), I'd love to hear them.

Lastly, and this DAC/Amp doesn't need an XLR cable, I've been looking at the Woo Audio W7 Fireflies as a contender... Has anyone here had any experience with the Fireflies and HD 800's? It looks (and supposedly sounds) great, and the $1000 price tag is a little easier to swallow than $2000 for the HDVD 800.

Thanks again!


----------



## RedBull

HD800 sounds good on Leben. I think HD800 like tubes.
Last nite I listened again 800 with Lehmann BCL, like you said, the treble and bass is dry and shorter, but I still like it. Leben bring slight wet-ness to it.
I post on the other thread, apparently Norah Jones also use Leben CS300. I am happy my favorite singer is using the same amp as mine


----------



## preproman

The HD800s likes a "good amp" she is getting along very well with the GS-X mk2.  No issues at all, that I can tell.  I like detail.  I get tons of it with my rig..


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> 100+ posts since a day ago when I was last on.
> 
> I've laughed, I've cried, I got angry a bit.. I felt disorientated at times.. But very entertaining folks!! Especially these guys
> 
> ...


 
  ROFL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's exactly how I pictured them, this is the aftermath of their fight, though.  both refusing to acknowledge the other...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  With that, "why the h@ll did I marry that?" look on their faces...


----------



## RedBull

preproman said:


> The HD800s likes a "good amp" she is getting along very well with the GS-X mk2.  No issues at all, that I can tell.  I like detail.  I get tons of it with my rig..




Made me curious how gsx mk ii sounds like. Unfortunately in my place, I can't try first before buying.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





persona1138 said:


> Hey all, first time poster and I apologize if my question has been covered somewhere else in this thread...
> 
> I just ordered my HD 800's and I'm also in the market for a DAC/Amp to use with my MacBook Pro. Potentially a Schiit or maybe Sennheiser's own HDVD 800.
> 
> ...


 
  So, Moon audio and 'Q' audio make some good cables. I got my Q French silk for the ergonomics and XLR connection,  Really like it.
  Schiit Asgard 2 would be a good SS amp to start out with.  Decware Taboo MKIII and CSP2+ (or the new CSP3+) are good choices.
  I have the Asgard 2 and the Taboo, others here like the CSP2+.  I also use the Schiit ubered Bifrost, the Modi might also be a consideration.
  The taboo can be had with two 1/4" and two 4 pin XLR connections.
   
  If you can I would suggest reading a lot of the reviews and also going to a meet and auditioning the gear.
   
  Oh and Welcome to Head-Fi, and sorry about your wallet.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Have fun...


----------



## persona1138

bearfnf said:


> So, Moon audio and 'Q' audio make some good cables. I got my Q French silk for the ergonomics and XLR connection,  Really like it.
> Schiit Asgard 2 would be a good SS amp to start out with.  Decware Taboo MKIII and CSP2+ (or the new CSP3+) are good choices.
> I have the Asgard 2 and the Taboo, others here like the CSP2+.  I also use the Schiit ubered Bifrost, the Modi might also be a consideration.
> The taboo can be had with two 1/4" and two 4 pin XLR connections.
> ...




Thanks for the advice and the warm welcome, man! I'll definitely look into those.


----------



## Maxvla

dubstep girl said:


> l0l!!!!!
> 
> umm sometimes there isn't really much more to be said. anymore would be just redundant or would create more unnecessary questions and confusion.
> 
> the +1 is easy and effective to implement into any post and makes for a short and concise yet meaningful response. it also helps the person i'm quoting, their comment gains credibility



There's this thing called the thumbs up button that serves as an outlet for these +1 posts. Use that instead.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lol no1 uses that or notices it.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> There's this thing called the thumbs up button that serves as an outlet for these +1 posts. Use that instead.


 
  How does that increase post count? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




   
  -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> How does that increase post count?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  +1  (l0l0ll0l get it?)


----------



## Maxvla

dubstep girl said:


> lol no1 uses that or notices it.



I do...


----------



## BournePerfect

DG, you silly nilly. I don't think you actually agree on anything (not WA2 related lol). Your "+1" has always secretly referenced your growing post count.
   
  -Daniel
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  (+1)


----------



## citadel

Anyone tried the hd800 with black or blue dragons?


----------



## Stalker81598

citadel said:


> Anyone tried the hd800 with black or blue dragons?




I will highly recommend the Black Dragon. It tames that slight treble peak almost entirely and gives an overall smoother presentation than the stock SPC cable. Honestly I was very surprised at how much of a difference this cable made.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> I will highly recommend the Black Dragon. It tames that slight treble peak almost entirely and gives an overall smoother presentation than the stock SPC cable. Honestly I was very surprised at how much of a difference this cable made.


 

 Thanks for the info. Does the same detail/soundstage etc... exist though?
   
  I have silver dragons, but it may have been wiser for me to get black dragons.
  The treble is slightly better with the silvers. Detail and the rest are there (and I think improved a bit).
   
  Also, does the bass improve at all?


----------



## Stalker81598

citadel said:


> Thanks for the info. Does the same detail/soundstage etc... exist though?
> 
> I have silver dragons, but it may have been wiser for me to get black dragons.
> The treble is slightly better with the silvers. Detail and the rest are there (and I think improved a bit).
> ...




You may perceive a slight reduction in detail because of the lowered treble peak but its all still there. Doesn't seem to be any less resolving to me. The mids and bass sound like they have a slightly slower decay that gives it a little bit bigger bottom end but its subtle. Just enough to give it a little extra weight. I wouldn't get the Black Dragon if I was just looking to increase bass quantity. All IME of course.


----------



## PleasantSounds

Quote: 





persona1138 said:


> [..]
> 
> Lastly, and this DAC/Amp doesn't need an XLR cable, I've been looking at the Woo Audio W7 Fireflies as a contender... Has anyone here had any experience with the Fireflies and HD 800's? It looks (and supposedly sounds) great, and the $1000 price tag is a little easier to swallow than $2000 for the HDVD 800.
> 
> Thanks again!


 
   
  To my ears the WA7 leaves nothing to be desired. With the HD800 I'd say it sounds even better than looks, especially with the EH tubes - they are worth the extra money.


----------



## songmic

Let's organize an alphabetical list of headphone amps (heard and approved by many) that are known to be some of the very best amps for the HD800, cost-no-object. Anyone can chime in and update the list, even delete what's already there if you don't agree, but only as long as you've actually heard the amp and compared it with others.
   
  And please, let's not argue over tubes vs. transistor here. As long as it sounds heavenly with the HD800, everything's good.
   
  VALVE
  - Allnic Audio HPA5000
  - Decware CSP2+ (soon to be upgraded to 3)
  - DNA Stratus
  - E.A.R. HP4
  - Eddie Current Zana Deux SE
  - EternalArts OTL-KHV
  - Woo Audio WA22
   
  SOLID-STATE
  - AMB B22
  - Bakoon HPA-21
  - HeadAmp GS-X mk2
  - Luxman P-1u
  - SPL Phonitor
  - Sugden Masterclass HA-4
  - Violectric V200
   
  Disclaimer: To be honest, I didn't listen to all of the amps I listed above (GS-X mk2, for example, though I'd really like to hear it with the HD800 someday). I added several amps I haven't heard but received a lot of praise from respected members at Head-Fi and other sources. So far, the best tube amp I've heard was the HPA5000 ($5K), and the best solid-state was HPA-21 ($3K).


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Let's organize an alphabetical list of headphone amps [...] that are known to be some of the very best amps for the HD800, *cost-no-object. *


 
  Cost-no-object, and yet all the models you cited are above $2k.
  Seems there's a market of amps, just for the hd800.


----------



## Audio Jester

Thanks Songmic!  A handy resource.


----------



## preproman

Lots more.
   
  ECP L-2 and DSHA - 1
  Mjonlir
  BHA-1
  EC 2A3 and BA
  DNA Sonett and / 2
  Dynahi
  Burson Soloist
  AMB M^3 
  Other Woo amps
  LG, LAu, LF
   
  Much more....


----------



## jsgraha

Sugden Masterclass HA-4 ??
I've tried it but I can't hear the synergy, maybe just me...
But yes to Zana, Mjolnir, Soloist, LG.


----------



## zigy626

What about the Lehamnn Black Cube Linear? Wondering if there is any consensus regarding this particular amp with the HD800. I have my opinion but would like to hear from other members who have tried the amp.


----------



## RedBull

Please add Leben CS-300XS, it sounds soo god with HD800.
Lehmann BCL is ok with 800, I can live with it, but from description of sound, I think I'd like WA7 better.


----------



## RedBull

extrabigmehdi said:


> Cost-no-object, and yet all the models you cited are above $2k.
> Seems there's a market of amps, just for the hd800.




Oh, noooo, not again ......


----------



## Dubstep Girl

zigy626 said:


> What about the Lehamnn Black Cube Linear? Wondering if there is any consensus regarding this particular amp with the HD800. I have my opinion but would like to hear from other members who have tried the amp.




I didnt like bcl with hd 800, lifeless and bland. Though not a bad amp, just my preferences + value for money


----------



## hmouse

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Let's organize an alphabetical list of headphone amps (heard and approved by many) that are known to be some of the very best amps for the HD800, cost-no-object. Anyone can chime in and update the list, even delete what's already there if you don't agree, but only as long as you've actually heard the amp and compared it with others.
> 
> And please, let's not argue over tubes vs. transistor here. As long as it sounds heavenly with the HD800, everything's good.
> 
> ...


 
  Isn't the HPA5000 optimized for low impedance phones (30~50ohm)? I haven't heard it, but their owner's manual said so.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Oh, noooo, not again ......


 

 Here's what I'd think, a more constructive question /remark :
  how many headphones , beside the hd800,would according to you, justify the purchase of a $2k amp or more ?


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





hmouse said:


> Isn't the HPA5000 optimized for low impedance phones (30~50ohm)? I haven't heard it, but their owner's manual said so.


 
   
  I never the read the user's manual, but to my ears, this was the best amp I've heard with the HD800. The owner of the company who built this amp told me that this amp will work well with both low impedance and high impedance headphones.


----------



## RedBull

extrabigmehdi said:


> Here's what I'd think, a more constructive question /remark :
> how many headphones , beside the hd800,would according to you, justify the purchase of a $2k amp or more ?




Justify => relative to who? To you?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Justify => relative to who? To you?


 
   
  Correct,  I was not aware we had to Justify our spendings...


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Justify => relative to who? To you?


 

 Rephrased:
  how many headphones , beside the hd800,would according to you, make the purchase of a $2k amp *interesting, relevant, pertinent, not a waste of money*  ?
  Or if you prefer: would the purchase  of a $2k amp  bring improvements to a lot of headphones, when compared to let's say a 200$ amp.
  Now you can't reduce my previous question to a  "I  spend as  much as I  want", because that was not the point.


----------



## MIKELAP




----------



## songmic

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Here's what I'd think, a more constructive question /remark :
> how many headphones , beside the hd800,would according to you, justify the purchase of a $2k amp or more ?


 
   
  Aside from electrostats, I think there are about 5-6 headphones beside the HD800 for which that I'd spend more than $2K on amping. But that's just me.
   
  HE-500/6 or LCD-2/3NA Stratus, EC 2A3/2A3x4, RSA Dark Star
  T1: WA22, WA5LE
  TH900: ZDSE


----------



## RedBull

If you can't hear the difference, not justifiable. If you can hear the difference, justifiable.


----------



## BournePerfect

Get a job.

-Daniel


----------



## persona1138

pleasantsounds said:


> To my ears the WA7 leaves nothing to be desired. With the HD800 I'd say it sounds even better than looks, especially with the EH tubes - they are worth the extra money.




Thanks for the tip, PleasantSounds. I wish there were an easy way for me to demo the Fireflies, but they're near (if not at the top) of my list.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Aside from electrostats, I think there are about 5-6 headphones beside the HD800 for which that I'd spend more than $2K on amping. But that's just me.
> 
> HE-500/6 or LCD-2/3NA Stratus, EC 2A3/2A3x4, RSA Dark Star
> T1: WA22, WA5LE
> TH900: ZDSE


 
  This is what I  was expecting, thanks for the honest answer. I 'll refrain from doing an other remark.
   
  Quote: 





> @BournePerfect
> Get a job.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  Well, I'm actually homeless and found a hd800 on a trash bin.
  All I  need now is to find a $5k amp in a  trash bin too.


----------



## ForsakenArcher

Quote: 





redbull said:


> If you can't hear the difference, not justifiable. If you can hear the difference, justifiable.


 

 Well said. Thats how i play so far.


----------



## BournePerfect

extrabigmehdi said:


> This is what I  was expecting, thanks for the honest answer. I 'll refrain from doing an other remark.
> 
> Well, I'm actually homeless and found a hd800 on a trash bin.
> All I  need now is to find a $5k amp in a  trash bin too.




Nah-just a couple hundred for an ear exam.

-Daniel


----------



## ForsakenArcher

Get a room, you guys. lol


----------



## rgs9200m

The Pinnacle is pretty amazing with 800s. 
  I tried a bunch of other amps at home and at meets/shows, and the 800s are too "clear" for me with anything but the Pinnacle.
  (Ray's B52 is also nice though.)
  'strange bird these HD800s. They can sound like they hit every aspect right:
  natural tonality, strong fundamental bass, realistic image shapes an boundaries, enjoyable layering and spaciousness,
  but somehow I can feel that the music is playing outdoors on a crisp clear fall day (I was going to say in a vacuum, but that's too harsh).
   
  And I prefer the more humid atmosphere (in varying degrees) of Audeze LCD3s or Fostex TH900s or Hifiman HE500s,
  even though the 800s have more natural tonality and more realism.
   
  The HD800s sound more live, and they sound live all of the time, with studio or live recordings. I think HD800 amplification needs to address that to make the sound more organic.
  The Pinnacle somehow restores some of this thicker atmosphere I like, blending the musical objects a bit into the air around them, and that's what I love about the Pinnacle/800 combo.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

songmic said:


> Aside from electrostats, I think there are about 5-6 headphones beside the HD800 for which that I'd spend more than $2K on amping. But that's just me.
> 
> HE-500/6 or LCD-2/3NA Stratus, EC 2A3/2A3x4, RSA Dark Star
> 
> ...



Heard the HD800s on Craig's EC445 prototype, sounded lovely.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Stratus, wa22, zdse, all amps i want to buy


----------



## skeptic

Woo 5LE is mentioned above for T1's.  I would say it deserves a spot on the hd800 totl amp list as well.  
   
  Hopefully at some point in the not too distant future, I will be able to offer up some comments on the BH Mainline, but they are evidently still awaiting receipt of a few parts before shipping out the first wave of kits.


----------



## Sorrodje

HD800 S/N 17003 received 5 Hours ago.... i'm definitely WOWed.
   
  My brain needed few minutes to get sound to this very specific dry, impactful and addictive sound but I can say that I'm shocked. I'm amazed especially by overall slam , extremely high level of resolution , insanely good bass. Impressive headphones for sure.  I'll write a bit more detailed review later . i currently enjoy my favorite tracks. Sorry


----------



## SHAHZADA123

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> The Pinnacle is pretty amazing with 800s.
> I tried a bunch of other amps at home and at meets/shows, and the 800s are too "clear" for me with anything but the Pinnacle.
> (Ray's B52 is also nice though.)
> 'strange bird these HD800s. They can sound like they hit every aspect right:
> ...


 
  What's your favourite tube for the HD800s.


----------



## palmfish

skeptic said:


> Woo 5LE is mentioned above for T1's.  I would say it deserves a spot on the hd800 totl amp list as well.
> 
> Hopefully at some point in the not too distant future, I will be able to offer up some comments on the BH Mainline, but they are evidently still awaiting receipt of a few parts before shipping out the first wave of kits.




Let me know if youre thinking of parting with your Crack. I havent decided if I want to build my own or not yet.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

really enjoying HD 800s and WA2 with GEC 6AS7G tubes


----------



## skeptic

Oh my crack is definitely here to stay - I expect it will just be demoted to my secondary hd650 rig once the mainline is up and running 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  If you are at all tempted, I strongly recommend giving the build a go.  It is totally beginner friendly, with a macro photo and written description to go along with every connection - and it is immensely satisfying when you get it up and running.  The speedball installation is a little bit more challenging (mostly because placing the standoffs can damage the fragile led's on the a-socket), but if you run into any obstacles, the folks at bh will get you sorted.


----------



## asdafaasda

Has anyone noticed the HD800s for $1199 on ColorWare?

http://www.colorware.com/p-432-sennheiser-hd-800.aspx


----------



## palmfish

skeptic said:


> Oh my crack is definitely here to stay - I expect it will just be demoted to my secondary hd650 rig once the mainline is up and running
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That is reassuring, thanks. I watched Tyll's video yesterday and am just deciding if I want to go to the trouble. But I think it will be a fun project to share with my daughter (who also loves headphones).

I just wish I had pulled the trigger during the "free Speedball" promotion a couple weekends ago.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





asdafaasda said:


> Has anyone noticed the HD800s for $1199 on ColorWare?
> 
> http://www.colorware.com/p-432-sennheiser-hd-800.aspx


 
   
  omg is sennheiser dropping MSRP or temporary sale? (if i still had money i would so totally go for pink HD 800 right now)


----------



## asdafaasda

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Seems to be that link only, clicking to it on the regular site still shows $1499.

 Edit: Oh, I think it's due to it being a pre-painted HD800, possibly returned or the original buyer did not want it anymore, can not change the color scheme. Still, great deal for new HD800s.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oh i see, makes sense lol


----------



## jjshin23

I saw that one last night and so close to getting it but I already have one. But the color is why it is temping... I went to University of Texas at Austin.


----------



## Jd007

Hey guys, what is the best amp for the under/around $1k range for the HD800, to bring out the bass and smooth out the treble peak a bit? Looking to buy, and I can go either SS or tube. I heard the V200 is a good paring but it's a bit bass-light? How does it fair against WA2/WA6SE? Source is a Schiit Bifrost Uber. Thanks in advance.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> Hey guys, what is the best amp for the under/around $1k range for the HD800, to bring out the bass and smooth out the treble peak a bit? Looking to buy, and I can go either SS or tube. I heard the V200 is a good paring but it's a bit bass-light? How does it fair against WA2/WA6SE? Source is a Schiit Bifrost Uber. Thanks in advance.


 

 WA7 is not bad from my own experience.


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





citadel said:


> WA7 is not bad from my own experience.


 
  I don't need a DAC, so I'd rather spend more on a stand alone amp. thanks for the suggestion tho


----------



## philo50

for under $1000 you probably can't do much better than the Soloist....


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





philo50 said:


> for under $1000 you probably can't do much better than the Soloist....


 
   
  The Soloist was not a good match with the HD800 IMO. While it had good transparency and focus, the Soloist did nothing to alleviate the treble glare of the HD800, but rather attenuated it. As a result of this, the sound was fatiguing over long hours of listening.
   
  I think a warmer sounding amp such as V200, which is priced similarly to the Soloist, would be a much better match with the HD800. I have a feeling that Bottlehead Crack w/ Speedball upgrade, which costs around half of Soloist, would also outperform the Soloist in its performance with the HD800.
   
  The Soloist was quite good with the LCD-3, though.


----------



## jsgraha

Songmic, I think it depend on the source. With my source, Soloist is very good. But I experience a problem with some Dac that I've auditioned in the past such as Weiss dac2 and v800 (didn't mean they aren't good though). But with my source, M51, Dac8, ML 360S, Soloist is very good.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> Hey guys, what is the best amp for the under/around $1k range for the HD800, to bring out the bass and smooth out the treble peak a bit? Looking to buy, and I can go either SS or tube. I heard the V200 is a good paring but it's a bit bass-light? How does it fair against WA2/WA6SE? Source is a Schiit Bifrost Uber. Thanks in advance.


 
   
  If it was bass light then whoever you heard that from was a bass head and the HD800 probably isn't for them.


----------



## BobJS

+ 1 on Soloist (or rather, Conductor)


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> Hey guys, what is the best amp for the under/around $1k range for the HD800, to bring out the bass and smooth out the treble peak a bit? Looking to buy, and I can go either SS or tube. I heard the V200 is a good paring but it's a bit bass-light? How does it fair against WA2/WA6SE? Source is a Schiit Bifrost Uber. Thanks in advance.


 
  Decware CSP2+ works great. They have just come out with the CSP3+. I would expect it to be a nice pairing as well.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The Taboo MKIII is listed and advertised as a planar amp. Any way to "change" it for the HD 800 or is that just marketing?


----------



## negura

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> The Taboo MKIII is listed and advertised as a planar amp. Any way to "change" it for the HD 800 or is that just marketing?


 
   
  There's no need to "change" anything. It's a fantastic HD800s amplifier or pretty much any other headphones (except for HE-6).


----------



## RedBull

I am worried it is just 'slam' and not so much detail?
Detail wise, how's Taboo mk iii vs CSP2+?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





redbull said:


> I am worried it is just 'slam' and not so much detail?
> Detail wise, how's Taboo mk iii vs CSP2+?


 
  CSP2+ has great detail. The Taboo MK III is a different animal. If you are using only the HD800's and no concern for speakers, then the CSP2+ is the choice. If you are interested in the LCD-2 or 3's as well or you want a dual purpose amp for speaker use then the Taboo is the right choice.


----------



## HideousPride

asdafaasda said:


> Seems to be that link only, clicking to it on the regular site still shows $1499.
> 
> Edit: Oh, I think it's due to it being a pre-painted HD800, possibly returned or the original buyer did not want it anymore, can not change the color scheme. Still, great deal for new HD800s.



 
 Thank goodness it wasn't the price for a new one, was considering selling my current HD 800s to pick up a colorful HD 800.


----------



## Painterspal

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> Hey guys, what is the best amp for the under/around $1k range for the HD800, to bring out the bass and smooth out the treble peak a bit? Looking to buy, and I can go either SS or tube. I heard the V200 is a good paring but it's a bit bass-light? How does it fair against WA2/WA6SE? Source is a Schiit Bifrost Uber. Thanks in advance.


 
   
  I wouldn't call the v200 particularly bass light with the HD800.
   
  If you're in the US it's probably not a realistic option but I still really like the Icon Audio HP8 mk2 and preferred it to the Violectric - makes my Senns really sing.


----------



## Jd007

tried the v200 today. omg the shrinkage in the soundstage completely cripples it as a good amp in the $1k price range IMO. my $200 LD MK III destroys it driving my hd800s IMO. sure the v200 is a tad bit smoother, but the soundstage is pathetic in comparison, and completely nullifies one of the biggest strengths of the hd800. did not notice significant differences elsewhere. absolutely disappointed with the v200. i tried it on the he500 as well, and the soundstage of the he500 was already not as good as the hd800, and on the v200 it completely disappeared. i have generally in the past not noticed too big of a difference between amps, but this time it was so drastic that i felt the need to warn ppl thinking about the v200: don't (well read what i said and if you don't care about soundstage and wants the slightly smoother signature for 5x the price then sure go for it, but otherwise don't).


----------



## Fatiim

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> Hey guys, what is the best amp for the under/around $1k range for the HD800, to bring out the bass and smooth out the treble peak a bit? Looking to buy, and I can go either SS or tube. I heard the V200 is a good paring but it's a bit bass-light? How does it fair against WA2/WA6SE? Source is a Schiit Bifrost Uber. Thanks in advance.


 
  If you like DIY, and if you can, try the M^3. IMHO, it's perfect with the HD800, no "treble peak" and it's well within your budget.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i think you should choose a good OTL amp.
   
  the CSP2+ should be good, as well as the Woo Audio 2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  the soloist might be good too depending on your setup, i can see it being bright for some people though.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> tried the v200 today. omg the shrinkage in the soundstage completely cripples it as a good amp in the $1k price range IMO. my $200 LD MK III destroys it driving my hd800s IMO. sure the v200 is a tad bit smoother, but the soundstage is pathetic in comparison, and completely nullifies one of the biggest strengths of the hd800. did not notice significant differences elsewhere. absolutely disappointed with the v200. i tried it on the he500 as well, and the soundstage of the he500 was already not as good as the hd800, and on the v200 it completely disappeared. i have generally in the past not noticed too big of a difference between amps, but this time it was so drastic that i felt the need to warn ppl thinking about the v200: don't (well read what i said and if you don't care about soundstage and wants the slightly smoother signature for 5x the price then sure go for it, but otherwise don't).


 
  That was always the one thing that always kept me from pulling the trigger on the V200-the soundstage complaints. After hearing what an incredible soundstage my ZDSE had-I knew I couldn't settle for anything less...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> -I knew I couldn't settle for anything less...
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  High hopes for the Mjolnor?
   
  I anticipate your comments about it, as I do want.


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i think you should choose a good OTL amp.
> 
> the CSP2+ should be good, as well as the Woo Audio 2
> 
> ...


 
  yeah the soloist could be a bit too bright for the already bright hd800s. have you heard of both csp2+ and wa2/wa6se? if so which one do you think is better if I want to smooth out the treble, bring out the bass a bit, without losing much of the soundstage and detail? where does the taboo mk iii stand with those 2?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

haven't heard CSP2+ just recommending it since alot of people here have enjoyed it with the hd 800s.
   
  the WA2 is better than the WA6-SE for the HD 800 if you're looking for smoothness and a little more bass. the WA6-SE is slightly more detailed with a wider soundstage, but the treble isn't as good and its a little leaner/SS sounding compared to the WA2 which has a lush silky smoothness to it. the WA2 has a better tonality and more body, but does lose a bit of detail, just a bit, and that improves with tubes of course.


----------



## longbowbbs

The CSP2+ is a fantastic pairing with the HD800's. Highly recommended.


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The CSP2+ is a fantastic pairing with the HD800's. Highly recommended.


 
  even on its own, ie not preamp fed into a taboo? also what would be the sound signature difference between the taboo and the csp2+, since you own both, as they are 2x the price diff? thanks


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> High hopes for the Mjolnor?
> 
> I anticipate your comments about it, as I do want.


 
  It just arrived today-and I plugged it in about five minutes ago. What a beautiful unit! I'm feeding it balanced from my Eximus into the HD800. I don't intend on listening to it for a few days at least as I hear it settles in quite a bit, and I'm just too busy this week(end).
   
  I do have high hopes for it, as I've been in search for an 'end game' SS amp to use as a secondary unit when my Leviathan arrives. If I like this, I'll probably pull the trigger on the Rag and sell this when it comes out (bigger, more power, speakers etc). I'm mainly intrigued because Jason says it no longer has him missing the 'tube sound'-and as an Eddie Current fan I'm intrigued by Purrin's comments that it has some of the EC flavor. Look for impressions from me in about a week-I'll mainly be comparing it to my Eximus/ZDSE/HD800 reference system as I await the Levi. Stay tuned...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Even on its own....With the Taboo there is more body. Each actually compliments the other. However, as a stand alone amp for Sennheiser HP's the CSP2+ is wonderful. It is the smoother of the two. The Taboo is a more muscular sound. I like both. I have them connected since I also use the combo with speakers. I can switch between their HP jacks and enjoy either one individually. Fun times....


----------



## Audio Jester

bourneperfect said:


> It just arrived today-and I plugged it in about five minutes ago. What a beautiful unit! I'm feeding it balanced from my Eximus into the HD800. I don't intend on listening to it for a few days at least as I hear it settles in quite a bit, and I'm just too busy this week(end).
> 
> I do have high hopes for it, as I've been in search for an 'end game' SS amp to use as a secondary unit when my Leviathan arrives. If I like this, I'll probably pull the trigger on the Rag and sell this when it comes out (bigger, more power, speakers etc). I'm mainly intrigued because Jason says it no longer has him missing the 'tube sound'-and as an Eddie Current fan I'm intrigued by Purrin's comments that it has some of the EC flavor. Look for impressions from me in about a week-I'll mainly be comparing it to my Eximus/ZDSE/HD800 reference system as I await the Levi. Stay tuned...
> 
> -Daniel




I will be waiting eagerly for your verdict.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> ...


 
   
  Yes, we all know, but just stick the headphones on your head and tell us something already.


----------



## BournePerfect

Lol fine. Just listened to 3 songs I'm extremely familiar with...not bad.  Very detailed, a little top-tilted (no, it's not the DP-1)-bass surprisingly is the weakest link at this point! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So far my ZDSE with the right tubes beats it in every area-but then again this is why I don't like writing impressions til I've let it burn in for a while-I've found that most amps I've owned settled in after a bit. I *gasp* wasn't even impressed with the ZDSE out of the box-took a couple hundred hours burn in to settle-which is around the figure some of the MJ familiars are touting. So...more impressions, say, Monday after 100 hours... 
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Eee Pee

Thank you.
   
  Burn in that brain!


----------



## Audio Jester

Thanks Daniel! You know, i might start offering a burn-in service. Send all your gear to me for a month and I will do the burning in for you. 
He he he....


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> *, a little top-tilted (no, it's not the DP-1)-bass surprisingly is the weakest link at this point!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's what I liked about it paired with the LCDs   But also what I didn't like about it paired with the HD800s.  Pick your poison.  I hope the Rag fix the lack of bass part though.
   
  Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> *It it has some of the EC flavor. *
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
   
  That's interesting.  I wonder in what ways?


----------



## EveTan

Quote: 





hideouspride said:


> Thank goodness it wasn't the price for a new one, *was considering selling my current HD 800s* to pick up a colorful HD 800.


 
   
  If this happens, I'll be watching.
   
  Btw, how horrible would the HD800s sound out of an O2?


----------



## Maxvla

Sounds quite good actually. Mostly there is a loss of dynamic contrast and punch. It sounds a little flat, but otherwise superb for the price.


----------



## Kendoji

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> tried the v200 today. omg the shrinkage in the soundstage completely cripples it as a good amp in the $1k price range IMO. my $200 LD MK III destroys it driving my hd800s IMO. sure the v200 is a tad bit smoother, but the soundstage is pathetic in comparison, and completely nullifies one of the biggest strengths of the hd800. did not notice significant differences elsewhere. absolutely disappointed with the v200. i tried it on the he500 as well, and the soundstage of the he500 was already not as good as the hd800, and on the v200 it completely disappeared. i have generally in the past not noticed too big of a difference between amps, but this time it was so drastic that i felt the need to warn ppl thinking about the v200: don't (well read what i said and if you don't care about soundstage and wants the slightly smoother signature for 5x the price then sure go for it, but otherwise don't).


 
   
  I did tons of research before buying my Violectric rig, and have been really happy with it.  To my ears the V200 sounds fantastic with both my HE-500 and HD 800, but as I haven't heard any other high-end rigs I don't have any other frame of reference.  As I generally prefer darkish to brightish, I suspect that the V200 is a good choice for me with the HD 800.  There's plenty of space and soundstage, to my ears, and a satisfying sense of power and low-end oomph when playing heavy music.  Maybe one day I'll feel differently if/when I get to hear other high-end gear.
   
  It's always interesting to see such divergent opinions.  I bought the V200 on the basis of glowing recommendations from head-fi folks who I greatly respect.  But I know that some people have never gotten on with it, citing the limited soundstage as a key drawback.  I even saw one thread where someone said it was muddy and had a 'v-shaped' signature.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Anyway, will be very interesting to compare with the Taboo once it arrives.


----------



## negura

I enjoyed my V200 for the time I had it. Yes it is a warm amplifier, but it's also very musical, soothing and relaxing. Sometimes that can be too much of a good thing, I agree. But it's a decent amplifier if priced right. The Taboo is several classes above. It's a beast and gets a lot more out of both the LCD-3s and HD800s. If you get some good NOS tubes to fine tune it, the agility, soundstage and dynamics of the LCD-3s are on yet another level. I would however tune the Taboo differently for the HD800s than for the LCD-3s, obviously, as they sound so differently. The stock tubes are a very good compromise for both.
   
  For the HD800s + Taboo MK3 I recommend the following tubes: Amperex EL84s, Amperex Golden Globes 6DJ8 and the GEC U52 rectifier for the HD800s. You will have unbelievable mids, strong tight bass, no treble sharpness and just the right amount of tube sound with body, musicality and liquidity. That's my tastes but it makes the HD800s more euphonic and retains their strengths.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





preproman said:


> That's what I liked about it paired with the LCDs   But also what I didn't like about it paired with the HD800s.  Pick your poison.  I hope the Rag fix the lack of bass part though.
> 
> 
> 
> That's interesting.  I wonder in what ways?


 
  Well, imo the biggest thing that sets the EC stuff apart is...musical involvement. Engagement-just like their site says. For me a lot of it comes down to the massive soundstaging, microdynamics, micro details, transparency, texture...sounds cliché I know, but these higher end amps really do set themselves apart, once you grasp their nuances. I'm sure you've experienced a lot of that with the GSX...? Anyway, here's hoping the MJ can pull some of that off-but yeah, so far...well I'll give it some more burn in. I agree this may be better suited for darker cans-but a lot of us knew that already lol. We'll see what happens...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Burn in that brain!


 
  Hard to claim brain in when I don't listen to it while it burns in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's why I like listening to something very short term to get a better perspective of any changes after it's settled a couple hundred hours-OTOH I've had numerous headphones and amps that didn't seem to change much at all. IME.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## HideousPride

maxvla said:


> Sounds quite good actually. Mostly there is a loss of dynamic contrast and punch. It sounds a little flat, but otherwise superb for the price.



 
 Have to agree with Maxvla, had the O2 + ODAC combo driving my HD 800s for a short period of time. If you're just planning on saving up piecemeal as you complete your system, it's an acceptable pairing to tide you over. I'm not sure I'd bother with the HD 800s if you're planning to just stick with the O2 + ODAC though. I thought it sounded acceptable in my previous chain, but it wasn't until I heard them out of better (and for me, warmer) gear that I had that "Oh" moment where I finally understood why people liked it so much.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





hideouspride said:


> Have to agree with Maxvla, had the O2 + ODAC combo driving my HD 800s for a short period of time. If you're just planning on saving up piecemeal as you complete your system, it's an acceptable pairing to tide you over. [...] I thought it sounded acceptable in my previous chain,


 
  So different from the "unbearable", "not musical" impression I got from someone that wanted to upgrade directly from his razer tiamat headphones to the hd800, using the O2+ ODAC as source.
  I think  that  the hd800 are not so polyvalent , or that they have a particular sound signature not for everyone. All these plays with different sources , to  alter the original sound signature of hd800,
  and make it "more polyvalent".


----------



## Stalker81598

I had an opportunity to listen to my HD800 with the GS-X at a local audio store for about 30 minutes. I'd really like to sit down with it at home for a week to get a proper listening session but I'll take what I can get. I normally run my HD800 with the Lyr and Amperex Orange Globes. In comparison, the GS-X had a noticeably larger amount of micro-details and clarity but I wouldn't say it was a "night and day" difference. Highs were a little crisper and slightly more prevalent. I found the midrange a bit dry compared to the Lyr. Bass seemed to have a little less weight than the Lyr as well.
   
  Overall I prefer the Lyr for the HD800. If you are all about maximizing detail and clarity, I can see how the GS-X would be a top contender. I'd still like to spend a little more time with it to make a better comparison in a more ideal environment.


----------



## BournePerfect

GSX or the MKii?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> So different from the "unbearable", "not musical" impression I got from someone that wanted to upgrade directly from his razer tiamat headphones to the hd800, using the O2+ ODAC as source.
> My think is that  the hd800 are not so polyvalent , or that they have a particular sound signature not for everyone. All these plays with different sources , to hide the original sound signature of hd800,
> and make it "more polyvalent".


 
   
  True that some people will probably not enjoy the HD800 out of any source, but in my experience, I have found that the HD800's sound does change to a larger degree with different source gear than most of the other headphones I've used. This makes it very versatile and allows the listener to tune it specifically how they want to hear it while still taking advantage of its inherent strengths (soundstage, detail).


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> GSX or the MKii?
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  It was the mk2
   
  Also forgot to mention, I was listening single-ended, not balanced.


----------



## rgs9200m

I've been fooling around with the HD800s for 4 years and a bunch of amps both tube ones and solid state ones, and I have found that I only enjoy these phones with tube amps.
  I think if ever a phone needed tubes in the chain, the HD800s are it.


----------



## preproman

"Need tubes" is a strong statement.  Clearly they don't need tubes to sound good.  Tubes may be someones preference but that's about it.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> I've been fooling around with the HD800s for 4 years and a bunch of amps both tube ones and solid state ones, and I have found that I only enjoy these phones with tube amps.
> I think if ever a phone needed tubes in the chain, the HD800s are it.


 
   
  So far I agree 100% but...
  Quote: 





preproman said:


> "Need tubes" is a strong statement.  Clearly they don't need tubes to sound good.  Tubes may be someones preference but that's about it.


 
   
  ...I haven't heard the GSX, and my Mjolnir is still burning in.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> I have found that the HD800's sound does change to a larger degree with different source gear than most of the other headphones I've used.


 
  Well, this is intriguing.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Well, this is intriguing.


 
   
  Just to be clear, I don't mean it changes the sound more than changing headphones would. I mean changing a particular piece of source gear makes a larger change in the sound of the HD800 than the same gear change would make on, say, the HE-500.
   
  Make sense? No? That's ok, I'm tired.


----------



## jjshin23

I have the HD800 <- Mjolnir <- X-Sabre <- Marantz 5004 CD and initially the Mjolnir was for the LCD3, which sounds great, but the HD800 is a bit hot for me around 7k on the treble (mostly cymbals).  So I ended up getting a Sansui Receiver and the HD800 sounds fantastic.  The mojo gave the LCD3 the treble that was needed but it was a bit too much for the HD800.  IMO


----------



## skeptic

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> So different from the "unbearable", "not musical" impression I got from someone that wanted to upgrade directly from his razer tiamat headphones to the hd800, using the O2+ ODAC as source.


 
   
  The odac is pretty damn decent imo, particularly given the price.  I've seen some DIY threads where folks have implemented independent PSU's - like s11's feeding the odac.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if such setups performed equally in blind testing with much higher end sabre dacs.  Stock from jds, I would say the odac is about on par with my arcam cdp, but not quite the equal of my keces 131.
   
  The o2, by contrast, sounds just the tiniest bit off - although extremely clean and noise free.  I still listen to the one I built on occasion, and I recognize that some people are still in love with it.  The issue, in my limited understanding, is that just as many people tend to find some even order harmonic distortion pleasing to the ear, amps that use lots of global negative feedback, like the o2, often rub folks the wrong way.  As I've seen it explained, global (as opposed to local) feedback, often results in very subtle smearing and phase issues that can be grating in the upper-mids, but which aren't reflected in conventional measurements.  For those who are interested - here's a further discussion of this: http://www.avsforum.com/t/926202/do-no-negative-feedback-amplifiers-sound-better


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





skeptic said:


> The issue, in my limited understanding, is that just as many people tend to find some even order harmonic distortion pleasing to the ear, amps that use lots of global negative feedback, like the o2, often rub folks the wrong way.  As I've seen it explained, global (as opposed to local) feedback, often results in very subtle smearing and phase issues that can be grating in the upper-mids, but which aren't reflected in conventional measurements.  For those who are interested - here's a further discussion of this: http://www.avsforum.com/t/926202/do-no-negative-feedback-amplifiers-sound-better


 
  Well, it seems that solid state provide odd harmonic distortions, while tube even harmonic distortions. If these distortions are behind the threshold of audibility (and I guess it's the case of the o2) , this issue is moot, and as many people suggested here, you can find "good tubes" , that sounds like "solid state".  Unless  people precisely enjoy the distortions from the tubes...
  But as someone made me the lesson here :" it's only seem transparent, until you hear more transparent".


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Well, it seems that solid state provide odd harmonic distortions, while tube even harmonic distortions. If these distortions are behind the threshold of audibility (and I guess it's the case of the o2) , this issue is moot, and as many people suggested here, you can find "good tubes" , that sounds like "solid state".  Unless  people precisely enjoy the distortions from the tubes...
> But as someone made me the lesson here :" *it's only seem transparent, until you hear more transparent*".


 
   





 Yep. And oft times it's most recognizable on the downgrade, not the upgrade.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## longbowbbs

I agree that the HD800's are well suited for a quality OTL amp. Interesting that Sennheiser came up with SS for their new amp and that all reports have it as a nice match for the HD800's. I would like to get a listen one day and check out the pairing.


----------



## preproman

Ha ha ha..  Listening to the HD800s on my PWD MKII / First Watt F1J + Alpha20 Balanced Pre Amp w/ Dual Sigma22 rig..  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Very much enjoying this.  24/96


----------



## negura

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I agree that the HD800's are well suited for a quality OTL amp. Interesting that Sennheiser came up with SS for their new amp and that all reports have it as a nice match for the HD800's. I would like to get a listen one day and check out the pairing.


 
   
  I didn't like that new Sennheiser SS when heard at the last meet. It sounded correct, but boring. I wouldn't pay that kind of money for that. On the other hand, maybe it wasn't fully burnt in, but would be quite strange that a manufacterer chooses to do that at a show...


----------



## jjshin23

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Ha ha ha..  Listening to the HD800s on my PWD MKII / First Watt F1J + Alpha20 Balanced Pre Amp w/ Dual Sigma22 rig..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Great way to kick off the weekend!


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





preproman said:


> "Need tubes" is a strong statement.  Clearly they don't need tubes to sound good.  Tubes may be someones preference but that's about it.


 
   
  +100!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





negura said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I saw one in the box at my dealers but he was not willing to open it up atm.....They do a ton of Internet selling and move a lot of gear. They did have a pair of LCD-2's out finally and I had a nice time with them and a Rogue Cronos Magnum. I imagine next time they will finally have it out of the box and I can play....


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Yep. And oft times it's most recognizable on the downgrade, not the upgrade.
> 
> -Daniel


 

 I'll bother one day the guys from hydrogenaudio about that, I  just prefer to do something else now.  It's not fun to debate all the times.
  I'm back to my srh940, as I  wish to forget a bit these h800 (and I want some isolation).
  Listening now to some ethereal dark ambient  (exemple: False mirror) &  liquid mind (ethereal new age) .
  I guess these stuff are good on most headphones.


----------



## palmfish

I'm picking up my Bottlehead Crack kit today. I'm really looking forward to building it and enjoying it with my HD800's.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I'm picking up my Bottlehead Crack kit today. I'm really looking forward to building it and enjoying it with my HD800's.


----------



## palmfish

Are you suggesting popped corn kernels as a source of carbohydrates for the building process?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


>


 
  +1 We want pics too Mr Palmfish!


----------



## LugBug1

Another vintage HD800 amp..  
   
  This one is another winner with the Senn's. I think early Sansui's (its the 551 from 73-76) mate well with the HD800's. The amp would be too warmth and smooth for LCD's and probably 650's for e.g. The sound is dark, rich and smooth yet still very clean in the treble. Verrry slight hsss when no music is playing, but my bat like ears are pretty cool with it. I know I have sensitive hearing because everyone I know has their volume 3 times as loud as me... Anyways, enough about me lugs. I'd recommend this series of amp: 331,441,551,661,771,881 to anyone looking into vintage. The lower models can be picked up for about $100 in good nick. I was lucky enough to get this one really cheap with original box and is immaculate.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> +1 We want pics too Mr Palmfish!


 
   
  You'll have them!
   
  I am pretty excited about this. I haven't done any significant soldering in over 20 years and haven't owned a tube amp in close to 40 years!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> You'll have them!
> 
> I am pretty excited about this. I haven't done any significant soldering in over 20 years and haven't owned a tube amp in close to 40 years!


 
  Good stuff. I really want to learn how to solder myself. Recapping vintage gear is something I want to be able to do.


----------



## zigy626

Have to say listening to Chick Corea The Continents, I realised I would never be able to experience such sound on a budget speaker setup $3000. Just listening to the piano and drums is an experience itself. Pure musical bliss.
   
  .


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Have to say listening to Chick Corea The Continents, I realised I would never be able to experience such sound on a budget speaker setup $3000. Just listening to the piano and drums is an experience itself. Pure musical bliss.
> 
> .


 
  That's a great album, I snapped it up when it first came out. Its a fave with testing gear for me, Jazz quintet with orchestra and its a very good concerto. Critics agree!


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Good stuff. I really want to learn how to solder myself. Recapping vintage gear is something I want to be able to do.


 
   
  Soldering isn't difficult. It requires more patience than skill.
   
  Here's a video of Tyll Herstens building a Crack. He has good advice and footage of soldering...
   
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5rWCEux_BI


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Soldering isn't difficult. It requires more patience than skill.
> 
> Here's a video of Tyll Herstens building a Crack. He has good advice and footage of soldering...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5rWCEux_BI


 
  Nice one thanks.


----------



## silversurfer616

lugbug1 said:


> Another vintage HD800 amp..
> 
> This one is another winner with the Senn's. I think early Sansui's (its the 551 from 73-76) mate well with the HD800's. The amp would be too warmth and smooth for LCD's and probably 650's for e.g. The sound is dark, rich and smooth yet still very clean in the treble. Verrry slight hsss when no music is playing, but my bat like ears are pretty cool with it. I know I have sensitive hearing because everyone I know has their volume 3 times as loud as me... Anyways, enough about me lugs. I'd recommend this series of amp: 331,441,551,661,771,881 to anyone looking into vintage. The lower models can be picked up for about $100 in good nick. I was lucky enough to get this one really cheap with original box and is immaculate.



If this is the Sansui 331,then I have the same and it is a nice amp with the HD800.
But I do prefer the Pioneer SX1010 as it has more power and gives the HD800 more authority and the tone controls are wonderful.....it is also 4 times the weight!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> If this is the Sansui 331,then I have the same and it is a nice amp with the HD800.
> But I do prefer the Pioneer SX1010 as it has more power and gives the HD800 more authority and the tone controls are wonderful.....it is also 4 times the weight!


 
  Its the 551. The SX1010 is one beast of an amp, I'd love to hear it. Also bare in mind that the Pioneer was nearly 3 times the price of the 551 at the time.. It wants to be better!


----------



## 4nradio

Hearing the Anaxilus-modded HD800s owned by Palmfish at a recent Seattle Head-Fi meet was a real "ear opener".  I've heard stock HD800s before, but in my opinion the mod really completes what was lacking in the treble. 
   
  So, it was goodbye to a much-loved LCD-2 Rev. 2 this week, and hello to to the HD800s in another week or so. I wish I could keep both, but after hearing the modified Sennheiser I know I'm getting headphones that I personally will enjoy more.
   
  I value soundstage and imaging highly, so that was my primary reason for making the move.
   
  I'm considering getting back into a tube amp with a Bottlehead Crack build like Palmfish is doing, but at first I'll try my DX100 and O2 combination. Does anyone have any experience with the HD800 and the iFi iCAN amplifier? I'm intrigued by the reviews of this amp with its "3D Holographic Sound" feature, but maybe that would be overkill or an unrealistic soundstage presentation when coupled with the HD800s.
   
  Another question-- can anyone tell me if the stock HD800 cable connectors can be disasembled and resoldered to another cable? I have a homebrew Kerrigan-Lewis Litz wire cable left over from my LCD-2 that I really enjoy and would like to reuse the stock HD800 connectors rather than spend ~$50 for another pair of connectors.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





4nradio said:


> Hearing the Anaxilus-modded HD800s owned by Palmfish at a recent Seattle Head-Fi meet was a real "ear opener".  I've heard stock HD800s before, but in my opinion the mod really completes what was lacking in the treble.
> 
> So, it was goodbye to a much-loved LCD-2 Rev. 2 this week, and hello to to the HD800s in another week or so. I wish I could keep both, but after hearing the modified Sennheiser I know I'm getting headphones that I personally will enjoy more.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Exactly the same thing here. The HD800s killed the LCD-2s for me. It had to be the LCD-3s to bring the Audeze brand back.
  I don't think you can reuse the stock connectors as they are industrially molded.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *4nradio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I've heard stock HD800s before, but in my opinion the mod really completes what was lacking in the treble.


 
  Isn't the mod supposed to tame treble ? The way  you say it, it's as if the mod  add something in the treble ...
  Also does the mod introduce some (even subtle) coloration ? Does it make treble less euphonic , "crystalline" ?


----------



## LugBug1

^I was thinking that myself... There's defo not anything lacking in the HD800 treble. Its a bit too much for some though.


----------



## Eee Pee

http://www.head-fi.org/t/577530/hd800-anaxilus-mod


----------



## 4nradio

Sorry... "lacking in the treble" was definitely the wrong phrase to use. I was trying to say that the mod tones down the sometimes-piercing treble. I'm sensitive to shrill treble and the mod takes care of that in the HD800.


----------



## citadel

I have a question for those who also own or have demoed the stax sr-009...Has anyone compared the hd800 to the Stax sr-009 and preferred the hd800!(for at least some types of music)?

If so, what music, cables, and amps were used? 

I basically am curious to see how the best dynamic headphone compares with the best electrostatic with high end setups

Thanks in advance


----------



## silversurfer616

Just read Mahler's shoot out....all you need to know!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





citadel said:


> I have a question for those who also own or have demoed the stax sr-009...Has anyone compared the hd800 to the Stax sr-009 and preferred the hd800!(for at least some types of music)?
> 
> If so, what music, cables, and amps were used?
> 
> ...


 
  Oh God no. Sorry...I'm a big fan of the HD800s and the SR009s are in a whole new class over them with every genre of music. As clean and transparent as the HD800s are, the SR-009s make them seem muddy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  baka1969 (a HUGE HD800 fan) was in town a few months back and got to hear my HD800/GS-X and SR-009/KGSS and there was no comparison in his words. Initially before he heard them, he mentioned, just how much better can they be as the HD800s were awesome headphones....then he put them on and was shocked (just like I was last September when I got them). The HD800s may image a bit wider, but that's it...the SR-009s take every other category. His final comment was, just sell the HD800s, after hearing the SR-009s, he didn't understand why I needed both. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 His views only solidified as he heard them several more times over the week during his visit.
   
  That said, I'm such a big fan of the HD800s, I'm still keeping them.


----------



## DarKen23

The past 2 weeks the HD800 have been constantly calling my name..And I am literally about to give in. Can someone please give me(coming from LCD2r2) a reason not to lol..*sigh*


----------



## RedBull

Maybe I haven't heard SR-009 in its full glory or maybe just preference, but I find pairing with Stax amps SRM-007tII, bass is too relax, but fuller, warmer mids.
  With SRM-727II more punchier bass, but not sufficient bass weight (for me) and slightly drier mids.


----------



## MacedonianHero

redbull said:


> Maybe I haven't heard SR-009 in its full glory or maybe just preference, but I find pairing with Stax amps SRM-007tII, bass is too relax, but fuller, warmer mids.
> With SRM-727II more punchier bass, but not sufficient bass weight (for me) and slightly drier mids.




You certainly haven't. I used to own the 727II. 

Regardless, with that amp, the SR009s were fantastic.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Maybe I haven't heard SR-009 in its full glory or maybe just preference, but I find pairing with Stax amps SRM-007tII, bass is too relax, but fuller, warmer mids.
> With SRM-727II more punchier bass, but not sufficient bass weight (for me) and slightly drier mids.


 
  Thanks for your impressions. I just wanted additional opinions to David Mahler's excellent review (well, a little bit more 'real-world' at least). Not everyone has a TOTL $40000 DAC to test with.


----------



## DarKen23

citadel said:


> redbull said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe I haven't heard SR-009 in its full glory or maybe just preference, but I find pairing with Stax amps SRM-007tII, bass is too relax, but fuller, warmer mids.
> ...



Just because a DAC's price tag is 40k does not make it TOTL..In fact, if I saw a dac marketed at 40k, Id just laugh because 40k for a digital-to-analog converter would be absurd.


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> Just because a DAC's price tag is 40k does not make it TOTL..In fact, if I saw a dac marketed at 40k, *Id just laugh because 40k for a digital-to-analog converter would be absurd.*


 
  You must have not seen the dcS stack then, or the ANote fifth element


----------



## DarKen23

khaine1711 said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Just because a DAC's price tag is 40k does not make it TOTL..In fact, if I saw a dac marketed at 40k, *Id just laugh because 40k for a digital-to-analog converter would be absurd.*
> ...



No I havent, generally people do not go around investigating a dac priced at 40k. Tell me, what is it about that dac thats worth 40k, are the caps molded from materials only found on the planet Uranus?


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> No I havent, generally people do not go around investigating a dac priced at 40k. Tell me, what is it about that dac thats worth 40k, are the caps molded from materials only found on the planet Uranus?


 
  Let's see
   
  -R&D cost
  -Chassis 
  -Overbuilt power supply/everything
  -Mega expensive clock
  -Profit margin
   
  To be serious though, there are pro-audio dac that cost around 5-10k - why would anyone be surprised at a 40k+ dac aimed at audiophiles? And MSB is quite "reasonable" in fact. The dCS stack cost ~100k, so is the Audio Note 5th element.
   
  I'm not defending/affiliated with MSB, or any companies - just that business is business, and they can charge however they want, as long as people are still willing to buy their products =p.


----------



## DarKen23

khaine1711 said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > No I havent, generally people do not go around investigating a dac priced at 40k. Tell me, what is it about that dac thats worth 40k, are the caps molded from materials only found on the planet Uranus?
> ...



Lol, sorry I cant help but laugh at your post in that MSB is being "reasonable". 5-10k, sure yea, but even at 10k Im inclined that the law of diminishing marginal returns applies. Why would anyone be surprised at a 40k+ dac aimed at audiophiles, lol maybe because 10k and 40k is a 30k difference. Please elaborate on the clocking or "MEGA EXPENSIVE CLOCK", chassis, the power supply which apparently is overbuilt.


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Oh God no. Sorry...I'm a big fan of the HD800s and the SR009s are in a whole new class over them with every genre of music. As clean and transparent as the HD800s are, the SR-009s make them seem muddy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  damn this makes me a bit sad with my hd800 lol. i wish i could hear the sr009s cuz i'd rather not buy blind on these $3.6k headphones...


----------



## zigy626

Would like some advice can a vacuum be used to clean the HD800's at a very low level. Would this cause can damage to the driver. I am talking the lowest setting. I can see some debris inside the driver do not know how it got inside. If it can not be done what sort of damage can be caused by taking such an action?


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> Lol, sorry I cant help but laugh at your post in that MSB is being "reasonable". 5-10k, sure yea, but even at 10k Im inclined that the law of diminishing marginal returns applies. Why would anyone be surprised at a 40k+ dac aimed at audiophiles, lol maybe because 10k and 40k is a 30k difference. Please elaborate on the clocking or "MEGA EXPENSIVE CLOCK", chassis, the power supply which apparently is overbuilt.


 
  If you're in this hobby, you'll know the mark up can be exorbitantly high. You can't possibly charge that high in pro-audio market, but you sure can with hifi. Remember Grado and the 500 bucks Cmoy? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 or the Goldmund headphone, which is essentially a Hifiman repainted that cost 12k?
   
  Business is business. Not like I will ever afford a fully decked out MSB, but hypothetically if I was a billionaire, I would think they are much more reasonable compared to say, Audio Note.
   
   


zigy626 said:


> Would like some advice can a vacuum be used to clean the HD800's at a very low level. Would this cause can damage to the driver. I am talking the lowest setting. I can see some debris inside the driver do not know how it got inside. If it can not be done what sort of damage can be caused by taking such an action?


 

   
   Generally if it does not distort/buzz/rattle I'd leave it be. Unless some hair got in then you can use tweezer to try getting it out.


----------



## DarKen23

zigy626 said:


> Would like some advice can a vacuum be used to clean the HD800's at a very low level. Would this cause can damage to the driver. I am talking the lowest setting. I can see some debris inside the driver do not know how it got inside. If it can not be done what sort of damage can be caused by taking such an action?



LOL Im sure a vacuum at very low volume should be fine, careful though, something like the dirt devil might suck the transducer right off!


----------



## DarKen23

khaine1711 said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, sorry I cant help but laugh at your post in that MSB is being "reasonable". 5-10k, sure yea, but even at 10k Im inclined that the law of diminishing marginal returns applies. Why would anyone be surprised at a 40k+ dac aimed at audiophiles, lol maybe because 10k and 40k is a 30k difference. Please elaborate on the clocking or "MEGA EXPENSIVE CLOCK", chassis, the power supply which apparently is overbuilt.
> ...



Yea I get it (not really). Seriously though, Im not trying to offend you or put you on the spot, but you have to admit 40k for a dac is quite humorous. Even if I was a "billionaire" myself, I probably would purchase this 40k dac only to then immediately return it because It probably wouldnt even sound THAT good or sound like 40k. Someone here on head-fi mentioned that there are dacs out there that are insultingly priced, built by someone who doesn't know a thing about sound using luxury caps and etc.


----------



## Stalker81598

I'm sure it sounds good, but I would never consider paying anywhere close to $10k for a DAC. $40k is just hilarious. But hey, if it makes someone happy then more power to them.


----------



## DarKen23

stalker81598 said:


> I'm sure it sounds good, but I would never consider paying anywhere close to $10k for a DAC. $40k is just hilarious. But hey, if it makes someone happy then more power to them.



Yes exactly. Id thank him for the laugh.


----------



## khaine1711

You'd laugh more to know that there's a 150k Dac which still uses NOS Dac chip, together with a tube buffered SPDIF input + tube output stage =p (and don't forget boutique caps + exotic transformers).


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> I'm sure it sounds good, but I would never consider paying anywhere close to $10k for a DAC. $40k is just hilarious. But hey, if it makes someone happy then more power to them.


 
   
  If you put it that way, most folks who listen to crappy iBuds would find our hobby of investing $1-2K on headphones and amps hilarious as well. But hey, I'm not gonna judge unless I actually get to try them out with my own ears. I hope people here who find spending $40K on a DAC hilarious or ridiculous are saying that AFTER they've actually heard them too. If I were rolling in cash like David Solomon, so much cash that I could afford a Sennheiser Orpheus, two pairs of R10's, SR-009, SR-Omega, and another 50-ish headphones that cost around $1K or more, along with several amps costing $5K and upwards, AND still had like $50K lying around, then why not a $40K DAC?
   
  Although I don't agree with his ranking of headphones entirely (okay I'll admit it, placing the TH900 below the HD600 is preposterous IMO), what I respect more than just his collection of headphones and gears is his dedication. And dedication is the main driving force behind these expensive hobbies.


----------



## fuzzybaffy

It's funny, because I'm sure there are a lot of people who would say, they would never buy a $1500 headphone.
   
  It's all relative. Yes, you wouldn't buy a 50k DAC, but you don't (I'm assuming) have 50k to spend on a DAC.
   
  But to a multi-millionaire, would it be a problem for them? Probably not. If I had a $100 million, yea I'd buy a DAC like that.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Oh God no. Sorry...I'm a big fan of the HD800s and the SR009s are in a whole new class over them with every genre of music. As clean and transparent as the HD800s are, the SR-009s make them seem muddy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wow..Really?? The Sr-009 makes the HD800 sound muddy? That's amazing.  What cable did you use with the HD800?
   
  I'd heard the sr-009 had a tiny bit less "plankton level detail" compared to the HD800, but sounded much more smooth. Is this statement not true?
   
  I have to demo the sr--009!


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> You certainly haven't. I used to own the 727II.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hmm, well, maybe ... 
  We have different ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





citadel said:


> Thanks for your impressions. I just wanted additional opinions to David Mahler's excellent review (well, a little bit more 'real-world' at least). Not everyone has a TOTL $40000 DAC to test with.


 
   
  I'd say be confidence and trust your own ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





darken23 said:


> Just because a DAC's price tag is 40k does not make it TOTL..In fact, if I saw a dac marketed at 40k, Id just laugh because 40k for a digital-to-analog converter would be absurd.


 
   
  I dare not say that until I hear them myself.
   
  Quote: 





darken23 said:


> No I havent, generally people do not go around investigating a dac priced at 40k. Tell me, what is it about that dac thats worth 40k, are the caps molded from materials only found on the planet Uranus?


 
   
  Quote: 





darken23 said:


> Yea I get it (not really). Seriously though, Im not trying to offend you or put you on the spot, but you have to admit 40k for a dac is quite humorous. Even if I was a "billionaire" myself, I probably would purchase this 40k dac only to then immediately return it because It probably wouldnt even sound THAT good or sound like 40k. Someone here on head-fi mentioned that there are dacs out there that are insultingly priced, built by someone who doesn't know a thing about sound using luxury caps and etc.


 
   
  Guys, don't be like that.  It's the _art_ of making them, not the material.
   

   
  How much do you think the raw material to produce this paintings and how much do you think people are willing to buy them.
  Search yourself in Google.
  Skeptics would argue that their pre-schooler kids can draw something like that too.
   
  Now back to the topic ......................


----------



## Stalker81598

macedonianhero said:


> Oh God no. Sorry...I'm a big fan of the HD800s and the SR009s are in a whole new class over them with every genre of music. As clean and transparent as the HD800s are, the SR-009s make them seem muddy.




Is it really so much of a difference to say the HD800 sounds "muddy" in comparison or is this just another case of audiophile hyperbole?




khaine1711 said:


> You'd laugh more to know that there's a 150k Dac which still uses NOS Dac chip, together with a tube buffered SPDIF input + tube output stage =p (and don't forget boutique caps + exotic transformers).




What is an exotic transformer? Is that like a robot stripper from the planet Cybertron? Is it decorated with boutique caps?




songmic said:


> If you put it that way, most folks who listen to crappy iBuds would find our hobby of investing $1-2K on headphones and amps hilarious as well.




I have no doubt they do in fact find it hilarious. But spending $1500 on a HD800 and $40000 on a DAC is barely comparable. That's almost as much money as I make in a year. I could buy two cars for the price of that DAC. I guess it's all relative though. Someone who makes $300k a year might find it more reasonable.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> The past 2 weeks the HD800 have been constantly calling my name..And I am literally about to give in. Can someone please give me(coming from LCD2r2) a reason not to lol..*sigh*


 
  The LCD2's look cooler...?
   
  Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Would like some advice can a vacuum be used to clean the HD800's at a very low level. Would this cause can damage to the driver. I am talking the lowest setting. I can see some debris inside the driver do not know how it got inside. If it can not be done what sort of damage can be caused by taking such an action?


 
  The drivers are tougher than you think, If they can handle bowl loosening bass at a crazy volume (and they can I've tried it) then a little bit of sucky suck suck won't hurt them. In fact they might even enjoy it!


----------



## RedBull

stalker81598 said:


> Is it really so much of a difference to say the HD800 sounds "muddy" in comparison or is this just another case of audiophile hyperbole?




I'd say, it's 'relative-to'. Even after listening to SA3000, HD800 sounds muddy', and that's because SA3K has more treble emphasize, HD800 treble sounds 'roll off'.


----------



## Stalker81598

redbull said:


> I'd say, it's 'relative-to'. Even after listening to SA3000, HD800 sounds muddy', and that's because SA3K has more treble emphasize, HD800 treble sounds 'roll off'.




I've never heard the SR-009 or SA3000, but I just can't imagine a scenario in which I would ever describe the HD800 as "muddy". If it's really that much of a difference, both of those headphones must be extremely unbalanced and terrible to listen to.


----------



## wink

After listening to the SA5000 with it's earbleeding treble the HD800 sounds muddy only because the sound has to propagate through the blood in the ears.


----------



## DarKen23

lugbug1 said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > The past 2 weeks the HD800 have been constantly calling my name..And I am literally about to give in. Can someone please give me(coming from LCD2r2) a reason not to lol..*sigh*
> ...



I always thought the HD800 looks much cooler. The LCD2 does have its own style, but the HD800 looks like headphones that "grey aliens" would use. Thanks for the opinion though!


----------



## DarKen23

songmic said:


> stalker81598 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure it sounds good, but I would never consider paying anywhere close to $10k for a DAC. $40k is just hilarious. But hey, if it makes someone happy then more power to them.
> ...



You're absolutely right in that one shouldn't judge a product without ACTUALLY hearing it, that applies to myself as well. But seriously, for 1. You carelessly throw the "talk AFTER youve heard it" suggestion with a 40k unit that is readily available to me at my local Walmart, What would you say the % is of head-fiers that even get to hear one priced at 40k, not to mention that its probably bull**** whos attempting to gain fame and glory over teh internetz. 2. I highly doubt a 40k+ dac offers a life changing experience any more than a 10k dac would, Ive never heard any dac even close to 10k--but 10k makes more sense than 40. 

Can someone get a person here thats auditioned a 40k+ dac? Id love a FULL IMPRESSION and a comparison .. Should be interesting, dont you agree?


----------



## khaine1711

Why do you get so ... well I don't know what to call this behavior ... zealous over a dac? What about supercar, 5 figure watch/pet fish/bonsai? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  It's not that hard really. Call your nearest dealer and drive there, I'm sure they would let you demo even the dCS stack (which is four times more expensive than the MSB btw). Won't be life-changing for sure, but if it helps you feel better ....


----------



## preproman

I've heard the 009s and I own the HD800s.  I would not describe the HD800s as muddy compared to anything.  However, the 009s are for sure as MH said..  That much better.  The HD800s has it's place and it's not in the 009s lane.  
   
  IMO the HE-6 comes the closest to the 009s anyway.  Ha ha ha...


----------



## khaine1711

Do I just sense a Sr-009 and T2DIY around the corner, prepo?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





khaine1711 said:


> Do I just sense a Sr-009 and T2DIY around the corner, prepo?


 
  009s and a KGSSHV  It's a coming....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  You can't find many people that will build a T2 for you.  To demanding..


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





preproman said:


> 009s and a KGSSHV  It's a coming....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Fishski won't touch it?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Fishski won't touch it?


 
   
  Oh Hell to the NAW....  No high voltage stuff.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Oh Hell to the NAW....  No high voltage stuff.


 
  I can understand that. I value life too.


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> I've heard the 009s and I own the HD800s.  I would not describe the HD800s as muddy compared to anything.  However, the 009s are for sure as MH said..  That much better.  The HD800s has it's place and it's not in the 009s lane.
> 
> IMO the HE-6 comes the closest to the 009s anyway.  Ha ha ha...




Really ? I'd call the HE-6s muddy next to the hd800s. 

To be clear my comments previously aren't just mine, but baka1969's and zare's as well; both of which were over at different times and did direct A-B comparisons.

But as mentioned, when you get your upstream rig "right", the hd800s are very special headphones indeed.


----------



## citadel

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Really ? I'd call the HE-6s muddy next to the hd800s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Just to confirm, are you saying that the SR-009 has more *detail* than the HD800 even when the HD800 cables are upgraded and top end amp is used? Thanks...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





citadel said:


> Just to confirm, are you saying that the SR-009 has more *detail* than the HD800 even when the HD800 cables are upgraded and top end amp is used? Thanks...


 
  I'm saying that with my Q-Audio cables, run balanced on my GS-X MKII, I'm hearing many things on my SR-009s that I've never heard with my HD-800 rig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


....as did baka1969 and zare (who bought them). The DAC was the same for both comparison (W4S DAC-2) and my CDP.
   
  And all with less treble energy...no tricks here (like the SA3000 that crank up the treble energy), just a transducer that can extract every last detail out of the recording like no other.
   
  FWIW, other headphone cables/amps I've owned with the HD800s: DHC Molecule, Cardas Balanced Gold, Cavalli Liquid Fire, Woo Audio WA2, Woo Audio WA22. The combination I've got now, the HD800s have never sounded better.


----------



## DarknightDK

I'm intrigued. I've been listening to the HD800 with the WA22 (with upgraded tubes of course) and it sounds fabulous, pure joy to listen to.
   
  I'm curious how much more of a step up the GSX MkII is.
     WebRep

   
  currentVote
   
   
  noRating
  noWeight


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> And all with less treble energy...no tricks here (like the SA3000 that crank up the treble energy), just a transducer that can extract every last detail out of the recording like no other.


 
  I also think that some of the ringing that occurs inside hd800 cups  near 6khz (and more or less tamed by anax mod) could mask some details.
  So it would make sense even with the hd800, that with with less "ringing treble", you'd hear more details.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> I also think that some of the ringing that occurs inside hd800 cups  near 6khz (and more or less tamed by anax mod) could mask some details.
> So it would make sense even with the hd800, that with with less "ringing treble", you'd hear more details.


 
  I think you'll need to revisit your definition of "ringing treble". Because the HD800s have none. (Objectively measurement or subjectively to my ears).


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> I'm intrigued. I've been listening to the HD800 with the WA22 (with upgraded tubes of course) and it sounds fabulous, pure joy to listen to.
> 
> I'm curious how much more of a step up the GSX MkII is.
> WebRep
> ...


 
  They do sound fabulous together (WA22/HD800). The tubes I used were the TS7236 (or 5998), Slyvania Brown Base 5692 or RCA Smoked Glass 6SN7 and the EML 5U4G Mesh Plate (among others). But the WA22 lacks the transparency and imaging of the GS-X. It is a euphonic amp for sure and very seductive, but it can gloss over details while the GS-X is a window into the recording itself (and your DAC/Source).
   
  Solude could also chime in here as he bought my WA22 after I sold it.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I'm hearing many things on my SR-009s* that I've never heard with my HD-800 rig*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  If both rigs are up to par.  You should not be hearing things that you don't hear with either.  That's just not right.  The DAC/AMP is the main component here.  If they both can produce a slight breath on top of the mic in a live performance.  The capabilities of the TOTL headphones should be able to produce it as well.  HD800, 009s, HE-6, LCD-3s all should have no problems in low level detail retrieval.  With some of the rigs we have in this thread, this should not be the case at all.
   
  Low level resolution and low level detail retrieval are great on the 009s, HE-6 and the HD800.  The HE-6 can not be called muddy when compared to any headphone on the market.
   
  Of course IMO


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> If both rigs are up to par.  You should not be hearing things that you don't hear with either.  That's just not right.  The DAC/AMP is the main component here.  If they both can produce a slight breath on top of the mic in a live performance.  The capabilities of the TOTL headphones should be able to produce it as well.  HD800, 009s, HE-6, LCD-3s all should have no problems in low level detail retrieval.  With some of the rigs we have in this thread, this should not be the case at all.
> 
> Low level resolution and low level detail retrieval are great on the 009s, HE-6 and the HD800.  The HE-6 can not be called muddy when compared to any headphone on the market.
> 
> Of course IMO




That's what I thought (except for the HE-6 part of course) and then I started going through my music collection with the SR-009s and I realized that I missed things with all of my previous headphones/rigs. Again, Ross (baka1969) came to the exact same conclusion after a week as well. 

You should be equally surprised after a week or so after you get them too as we hear many things similarly.


----------



## LugBug1

I've actually heard some ringing on my HD800's. I nearly took to writing my shock post and what song I was listening to... But it was then that I realised my error. It was ELO's 'Telephone line' song and it was an actual telephone ringing at the beginning. Silly me!


----------



## palmfish

macedonianhero said:


> I'm saying that with my Q-Audio cables, run balanced on my GS-X MKII, I'm hearing many things on my SR-009s that I've never heard with my HD-800 rig
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Pardon my ignorance, but youre not saying that you listened to your 009's with the GS-X are you? I have no experience with them but I understand that Stax headphones need an energizer or an amp specifically designed for them (like your KGSS), right?

I heard the 009 paired with an Electra at the last meet I attended and thought it was very good. I didnt have time to compare side by side with the HD800 but my impression was that it was a step above in clarity and spaciousness, but not a huge gap. The 009's seemed a bit more "effortless" to me, for lack of a better way to describe them.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> my impression was that it was a step above in clarity and spaciousness, but not a huge gap. The 009's seemed a bit more "effortless" to me, for lack of a better way to describe them.


 
   
  That about sums it up for me as well..


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Regardless, "ringing" is the wrong term. The HD800's waterfall shows ABSOLUTELY no ringing.


 
  Resonance, if you prefer  then ? Resonating treble ?
  The waterfall show that the decay time is increased at 6khz (just verified),
  and then decay is improved above 10khz.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Nvm.


----------



## MacedonianHero

extrabigmehdi said:


> Resonance, if you prefer  then ? Resonating treble ?
> The waterfall show that the decay time is increased at 6khz (just verified),
> and then decay is improved above 10khz.




Again, no resonance in the CSD that I can see when compared to other headphones. You're really grasping at straws with that interpretation. Have a look at the T1s, or LCD-2 R1s. What you just showed is a tight waterfall. Take a look at the treble resonance of the Abyss. Now that is ringing. 

Btw, please illuminate us to your hd800 rig?


----------



## MacedonianHero

palmfish said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but youre not saying that you listened to your 009's with the GS-X are you? I have no experience with them but I understand that Stax headphones need an energizer or an amp specifically designed for them (like your KGSS), right?
> 
> I heard the 009 paired with an Electra at the last meet I attended and thought it was very good. I didnt have time to compare side by side with the HD800 but my impression was that it was a step above in clarity and spaciousness, but not a huge gap. The 009's seemed a bit more "effortless" to me, for lack of a better way to describe them.




As I mentioned, listen to them for a week and the differences really pop out.  would you describe the hd800s as a big improvement over the hd600s? I would say so.
Btw, my Stax amp is in my sig.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





preproman said:


> That about sums it up for me as well..


 
   
  +2
   
   
  no ringing in HD 800 and SR-009 is definitely a league above HD 800.


----------



## scottiebabie

for me, even driven with a (what i believe) low level amp, the HD800 presents a natural soundstage that most resembles a speaker (oxymoronic as that mite seem). im also here minute micro details that ive glossed over with the speaker but im not sure if its because i listen with higher volumes on the HD800 & or perhaps i dont have a resolving speaker rig.
   
  all this talk of how the 009 supercedes the HD800 even with optimal amplification has certainly wet my appetite. since i a chance of a snowball in hell of convincing the  missus of the "need" to spend another $10k+, would you stax mafia dudes believe something like a SR507 driven by a Woo GES give me a taste & perhaps satiate my curiousity to what u folks are alluding to with the 009?


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Again, no resonance in the CSD that I can see when compared to other headphones. Have a look at the T1s. what you just showed is a tight waterfall. Take a look at the treble resonance of the Abyss. Now that is ringing.


 
  The CSD  shows an anomaly near 6khz. The graph  doesn't say  explicitly say it's a resonance, it just show something is happening there.
  The measurements done with mod & without , clearly indicate that it affects the amount of 6khz treble.
   
  The other fact is that I tried to mod the hd800, and I noticed obvious difference.
  I was hearing stuff I didn't before . My belief ,  is that I think some of the  treble  emphasis  ("resonances" ?)  in hd800 ,  might mask other interesting details. Just like being blinded by light, can prevent you from looking at the surroundings.
  But the treble emphasis ("resonance" ?) is also pleasing too, as it participate to a sensation of euphony (and affects imaging) , so it might not be a good idea to kill it  completely.
   
  Quote: 





> Btw, please illuminate us to your hd800 rig?


 
  I already know what you'd think of "my rig" (it sucks) , and I don't care (don't try to redirect discussion in a weak way).
  Currently I'm not even listening to the hd800.


----------



## MacedonianHero

extrabigmehdi said:


> The CSD  shows an anomaly near 6khz. The graph  doesn't say  explicitly say it's a resonance, it just show something is happening there.
> The measurements done with mod & without , clearly indicate that it affects the amount of 6khz treble.
> 
> The other fact is that I tried to mod the hd800, and I noticed obvious difference.
> ...




Again, your interpretation is grasping at straws. And I don't know what your rig is, but I suggest you try the hd800s on a rig that is up to par for them. You might be surprised.


----------



## extrabigmehdi

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Again, your interpretation is grasping at straws. And I don't know what your rig is, but I suggest you try the hd800s on a rig that is up to par for them. You might be surprised.


 
  Yourself have done the anax mod, from what I've seen, so it's not just about rig.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





extrabigmehdi said:


> Yourself have done the anax mod, from what I've seen,* so it's not just about rig.*


 
   
   
  For me it is.  I'm not modding mine.  Except for this new cable I got hardwired.  That's it.


----------



## MacedonianHero

extrabigmehdi said:


> Yourself have done the anax mod, from what I've seen, so it's not just about rig.




I tried it, and preferred the stock. Mine are stock. 

With the hd800s, it is most certainly about the rig!


----------



## Kendoji

Opinions change, we all have different preferences, and we all choose to spend different amounts of money on our hobby.  Why not just enjoy it?  There are people on these forums with fancy Stax setups and there are people who love their bargain basement Grados.  I don't remember anyone here ever looking down on someone else for having a different or cheaper rig.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Opinions change, we all have different preferences, and we all choose to spend different amounts of money on our hobby.  Why not just enjoy it?  There are people on these forums with fancy Stax setups and there are people who love their *bargain basement Grados*.  I don't remember anyone here ever looking down on someone else for having a different or cheaper rig.


 
  There's nothing bargain about Grado's sir. I like them, but a bargain they are not  
   
  Head-fi is packed full of snobbery, 'I've got the best - but I worked my way here' attitudes. And to be fair there is nothing wrong with that. All hobbies are like this. Someone who has spent a lot of time and money on gear is going to be as proud as a peacock displaying its feathers. But at the same time it can be annoying to peeps starting out. But thats life. Just don't take it to seriously folks...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> There's nothing bargain about Grado's sir. I like them, but a bargain they are not
> 
> Head-fi is packed full of snobbery, 'I've got the best - but I worked my way here' attitudes. And to be fair there is nothing wrong with that. All hobbies are like this. Someone who has spent a lot of time and money on gear is going to be as proud as a peacock displaying its feathers. But at the same time it can be annoying to peeps starting out. But thats life. Just don't take it to seriously folks...


 
   
  +1


----------



## Kendoji

What I meant was that there are many people who are happy with their SR60s or SR80s, the classic bang-for-the-buck cans, and good luck to them.  I actually like my SR125s more than my RS1is.  
   
  Maybe I'm just not so sensitive to the snobbery, I dunno.  When I hear people talk about fancy pants rigs that I can't afford, I simply find it interesting and fun to read about.


----------



## MickeyVee

Maybe not so much snobbery but at a different level.. unobtanium for me but what the heck, I'm enjoying my HD800 with a Schiit stack and may go Woo WA7 someday. Although I love the new 2014 Corvette Stingray, I can't afford it but am sucking up everything I can read about it.  Same with the TOTL systems here.  It's just fun.  Enjoy the journey!
  Quote: 





kendoji said:


> Maybe I'm just not so sensitive to the snobbery, I dunno.  When I hear people talk about fancy pants rigs that I can't afford, I simply find it interesting and fun to read about.


----------



## paradoxper

It's fine to be proud of what rig you have, it's not soo cool to look down upon someone just because they're not running x TOTL gear.
   
  So Peter just tell the dude to enjoy his rig.
   
  And dude, stop stalking Peter, not cool and creepy.


----------



## James-uk

Sometimes when I get the urge to go down the Stax route or I read something that makes me doubt how good the HD800 is I listen to my 650s and just appreciate how good they are instead of picking out the things that make the HD800s better. This puts the hobby back into perspective for me and it makes me realise how far into diminished returns I already am with the 800s and suddenly the idea of buying 009s/amp seems insane!


----------



## palmfish

I think there is some snobbery here - as there is everywhere, but I don't see it very often and certainly not among the regular contributors.
   
  I think the reason why headphones have exploded in popularity is their relative affordability. I mean, most of us *could* own a $7000 headphone setup if we really wanted to, but we *choose* not to based on cost vs. benefit, diminishing returns, other priorities, etc. It's a choice whether you'd rather have a high end headphone rig or a Honda CBR600 or an Omega Seamaster or a Whites dry suit, right?
   
  So how can someone be a snob based on owning something that almost anyone could own if they wanted to?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I think there is some snobbery here - as there is everywhere, but I don't see it very often and certainly not among the regular contributors.
> 
> I think the reason why headphones have exploded in popularity is their relative affordability. I mean, most of us *could* own a $7000 headphone setup if we really wanted to, but we *choose* not to based on cost vs. benefit, diminishing returns, other priorities, etc. It's a choice whether you'd rather have a high end headphone rig or a Honda CBR600 or an Omega Seamaster or a Whites dry suit, right?
> 
> So how can someone be a snob based on owning something that almost anyone could own if they wanted to?


 
  This is "Summit-Fi" and I'm sorry, but it's not for the faint at heart. Someone asked whether the HD800s were as good as the SR-009s and I happen to own both, so I gave my comments. They then asked was rig/cables I was using, so I answered. That's what we do here on Head-Fi, we share experiences. However when some people who do NOT have any experiences and then make personal attacks against those with them (and I'm not referring to you here in any way), is not cool.


----------



## givemevinyl

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Oh God no. Sorry...I'm a big fan of the HD800s and the SR009s are in a whole new class over them with every genre of music. As clean and transparent as the HD800s are, the SR-009s make them seem muddy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Let's put this thread back on track...
   
  MH, I know you find the 009 to be better than HD800 so I won't ask for any further comparisons, but I am interested in finding out if you *generally* prefer to listen to one over the other depending on the type of music.


----------



## palmfish

macedonianhero said:


> This is "Summit-Fi" and I'm sorry, but it's not for the faint at heart. Someone asked whether the HD800s were as good as the SR-009s and I happen to own both, so I gave my comments. They then asked was rig/cables I was using, so I answered. That's what we do here on Head-Fi, we share experiences. However, NOT have any experiences and making personal attacks against those with them (and I'm not referring to you here in any way), is not cool.




If you hadn't noticed, I happen to agree with you...

If you aren't referring to me, why did you attach my comment?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





givemevinyl said:


> Let's put this thread back on track...
> 
> MH, I know you find the 009 to be better than HD800 so I won't ask for any further comparisons, but I am interested in finding out if you *generally* prefer to listen to one over the other depending on the type of music.


 
  Since you asked 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I generally prefer the SR-009s (actually not generally, but totally) with all types of music (rock, metal, punk, classical, jazz, etc..) but I still find the HD800s very special headphones and as mentioned previously and I do find time to fit them in the rotation. They are among the top 3 headphones I've heard of all time. But that said, while they can be ok with the upstream rig, they really open up and shine when you get that right. They will continue to reward you too as you continually work on your rig. That's both a curse and a benefit of a pair of very transparent headphones.
   
I started out with a MAD Ear+HD amp with my HD800s, then moved to the Schiit Lyr (didn't like the combination in any way as I found it couldn't keep up with the nimbleness of the HD800s and after all, it was designed as an ortho amp to begin with), then the WA2 (great combination), then a WA22 (a slightly better combination), then Liquid Fire (kinda disappointing actually for the money I spent) and finally here at the GS-X MKII. No snobbery whatsoever, just telling you how I hear it. I'd be very happy if my journey ended with the WA2, but after hearing the HD800/GS-X MKII combination, I finally think that I'm getting every last bit out of them. I'm hearing bass rumble, mids that are crystal clear, treble that is smooth without issue and laser-like imaging. Same go for my DACs too. This my personal amp journey with the HD800s...a long and arduous road for sure. 
   
But please remember being transparent headphones, if the recording itself is harsh, you'll hear it. Garbage in = garbage out.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> If you hadn't noticed, I happen to agree with you...
> 
> If you aren't referring to me, why did you attach my comment?


 
  Oh no, I mentioned that in my post that I was not referring to you "in anyway" whatsoever. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But I think we both know who? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I was referring to your comments about snobbery and I simply stated that that Summit-Fi was not for the faint hearted.


----------



## Jd007

I personally believe that with audio equipment, once you reach and surpass a certain price point (so that you are not listening to significantly low fidelity, distorted sound), it comes down to people own preferences of different styles of sound signatures. Sound quality is still important but IMO personal preference in sonic style trumps all that (e.g. I know plenty of people who enjoy the HD650's more laid back sound than the HD800's supposedly "superior" sound). To me being an audiophile means doing one's best to get the most enjoyment out of music (and not striving for the most accurate reproduction of recorded sound).
   
  Even some qualities that sound relatively objective are actually quite subjective. For example, detail, most people would agree with more details = better, but often detail causes more fatigue for some people, and for these people slightly less detail is better. In addition, who's to say that the music producer intended for you to hear all that detail? I doubt music producers check their tracks on SR-009s driven by BHSE or something similar, and maybe some details you were not meant to hear, and if the original artist heard during production, they would've been removed as they were undesired. It's like using a microscope to examine a painting, sure you can see all the details but they may not be intended by the painter (e.g. blemishes and imperfections on the canvas). Now I'm not here to say high-end, detailed audio gear is bad or unnecessary, but I'm just illustrating that personal preference of sound signature is very very important.
   
  Also keep in mind that people generally associate "more expensive" with "better" (I know I've done it). When there is a perceived difference between two different headphones/amps, people often trick themselves into thinking that the more expensive one is better, when otherwise the preference could've gone either way. I'm not saying that this happens all the time (I've been trying to stop myself from doing it), but it definitely happens (a lot).


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> I personally believe that with audio equipment, once you reach and surpass a certain price point (so that you are not listening to significantly low fidelity, distorted sound), it comes down to people own preferences of different styles of sound signatures. Sound quality is still important but IMO personal preference in sonic style trumps all that (e.g. I know plenty of people who enjoy the HD650's more laid back sound than the HD800's supposedly "superior" sound). To me being an audiophile means doing one's best to get the most enjoyment out of music (and not striving for the most accurate reproduction of recorded sound).
> 
> Even some qualities that sound relatively objective are actually quite subjective. For example, detail, most people would agree with more details = better, but often detail causes more fatigue for some people, and for these people slightly less detail is better. In addition, who's to say that the music producer intended for you to hear all that detail? I doubt music producers check their tracks on SR-009s driven by BHSE or something similar, and maybe some details you were not meant to hear, and if the original artist heard during production, they would've been removed as they were undesired. It's like using a microscope to examine a painting, sure you can see all the details but they may not be intended by the painter (e.g. blemishes and imperfections on the canvas). Now I'm not here to say high-end, detailed audio gear is bad or unnecessary, but I'm just illustrating that personal preference of sound signature is very very important.
> 
> *Also keep in mind that people generally associate "more expensive" with "better" *(I know I've done it). When there is a perceived difference between two different headphones/amps, people often trick themselves into thinking that the more expensive one is better, when otherwise the preference could've gone either way. I'm not saying that this happens all the time (I've been trying to stop myself from doing it), but it definitely happens (a lot).


 
   
  Price is far from the only factor. Look at a lot of the audio gd stuff....if the Master 8 were made here in North America it would be more than twice its cost. From all accounts it looks like a real deal TOTL amp. Then there was my Liquid Fire, in the end, I've heard better with cheaper gear like my GS-X (or my WA22 that wasn't too far off). 
   
  FWIW, I  never loved HD650s against even similarly priced headphones.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Don't get me wrong here it is sometimes pretty hard work to change my assessment, some phones or rigs are close enough not to matter while in other cases the difference is huge.  Like I said it's all part of the _FUN _in this _hobby, _that some of us really enjoy.  Like getting ice cream, I have my favorites, some times its hard to choose. But, I am always looking for the next flavor to add/try.
> 
> It's up to each of us to decide how much trust we put into someone else's comments (do we even know the each other beyond this forum?).  Personally I take all the comments I can get, put them all in a bucket, drink it all in, and let it digest a while.  Then go make _MY OWN_ decision.  No one is holding a gun to anyone's head to follow their advice, it all comes back on the individual to take the risk and make their own choice.  No ones fault but their own.  They and They alone can make the determination as to whether their choice was good.    If some one allows themselves to be influenced/pressured by peers to buy something and then are not happy about it...tough, lesson learned move on...don't let that happen again.


 
  Exactly...and after a few weeks, I found the mod took too much away from the HD800's brilliance (less details, smaller imaging), so I went back to stock. Nice thing as the mod is totally reversible. I would have never done it if it were. Initial impressions are one thing, but sitting down with something for a few weeks is something entirely different and I'm amazed that some forget this fact. Unless you absolutely hate them upon first listen (like the SRH940s....and the second....and the third, etc...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
   
  In the end, use this information on Head-Fi as inputs, then get out there to a few meets (or audio stores) and listen for yourself and make your own decisions. You're spot on with that.


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I started out with a MAD Ear+HD amp with my HD800s, then moved to the Schiit Lyr (didn't like the combination in any way as I found it couldn't keep up with the nimbleness of the HD800s and after all, it was designed as an ortho amp to begin with), then the WA2 (great combination), then a WA22 (a slightly better combination), then Liquid Fire (kinda disappointing actually for the money I spent) and finally here at the GS-X MKII. No snobbery whatsoever, just telling you how I hear it. I'd be very happy if my journey ended with the WA2, but after hearing the HD800/GS-X MKII combination, I finally think that I'm getting every last bit out of them. I'm hearing bass rumble, mids that are crystal clear, treble that is smooth without issue and laser-like imaging. Same go for my DACs too. This my personal amp journey with the HD800s...a long and arduous road for sure.


 
  I really want to try the ECP L-2 (similar price as the GS-X MK II). Tyll recently said it is the best amp for the hd800 he has ever heard hands down, and that he'd choose the hd800 with the L-2 as his island headphone (changed his mind from the LCD3 because of the amp lol)


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Price is far from the only factor. Look at a lot of the audio gd stuff....if the Master 8 were made here in North America it would be more than twice its cost. From all accounts it looks like a real deal TOTL amp. Then there was my Liquid Fire, in the end, I've heard better with cheaper gear like my GS-X (or my WA22 that wasn't too far off).
> 
> FWIW, I  never loved HD650s against even similarly priced headphones.


 
  Yeah, once I got the HD800's and the HE500's the HD650's went in their box and only come out when I want to compare new equipment and then only for a short time and very rarely.
   
  They are probably destined to be sold soon...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> I really want to try the ECP L-2 (similar price as the GS-X MK II). Tyll recently said it is the best amp for the hd800 he has ever heard hands down, and that he'd choose the hd800 with the L-2 as his island headphone (changed his mind from the LCD3 because of the amp lol)


 
  I wonder why ECP Audio doesn't get more mentions here? It looks like a great amp for the HD800s for sure and I'd love to try it. But that said, The GS-X MKII can drive my IEMs right up to the HE-6s. How many amps can do that? However, if I was looking for an HD800 only amp, it would be right up there (with the GS-X and maybe a few others); except for the fact that this old tube guy has happily settled into a solid state only lifestyle.


----------



## Kendoji

I've had my HD 800s for a while now, and am currently swapping between them and the HE-500 all the time.  I just keep both plugged into the V200 and swap over whenever I feel like it.  The HD 800 is definitely superior technically, and is often more enjoyable, but there are songs and albums where I suddenly miss the magic of the Hifimans.  Both fantastic headphones, at the moment I like them about equally.


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I wonder why ECP Audio doesn't get more mentions here? It looks like a great amp for the HD800s for sure and I'd love to try it. But that said, The GS-X MKII can drive my IEMs right up to the HE-6s. How many amps can do that? However, if I was looking for an HD800 only amp, it would be right up there (with the GS-X and maybe a few others); except for the fact that this old tube guy has happily settled into a solid state only lifestyle.


 
  gs-x mkii can drive iems? all the amps i've tried cannot, iems sound weird through them (variety of issues, no mid no bass, lots of noise, etc). does it actually make iems sound better than straight out of portable outputs?


----------



## negura

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> gs-x mkii can drive iems? all the amps i've tried cannot, iems sound weird through them (variety of issues, no mid no bass, lots of noise, etc). does it actually make iems sound better than straight out of portable outputs?


 
   
  The Burson Conductor (Soloist) for example drives IEMs perfectly.


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *negura* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The Burson Conductor (Soloist) for example drives IEMs perfectly.


 
   
  As does the Violectric V200.  I've used it with the HD800, HE-400, etc.. down to the JH13 and other very sensitive IEMs.  It works with it all extremely well.  the gain switches are excellent control (+/- 6dB & +/- 12dB), so the noise floor will be very low and there will be room for travel on the pot.


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> As does the Violectric V200.  I've used it with the HD800, HE-400, etc.. down to the JH13 and other very sensitive IEMs.  It works with it all extremely well.  the gain switches are excellent control (+/- 6dB & +/- 12dB), so the noise floor will be very low and there will be room for travel on the pot.


 
  my v200 cannot drive my ie8 iems. there is no bass, and sounds extremely weird (thin). like there is clearly something wrong with the sound, not just bad quality. no noise though.


----------



## FlySweep

jd007 said:


> my v200 cannot drive my ie8 iems. there is no bass, and sounds extremely weird (thin). like there is clearly something wrong with the sound, not just bad quality. no noise though.


 
   
  "Weird, thin sound" ?  No bass?  From what I've read, the IE8 is a bass _monster_ of sorts.  Seems to me that something might be wrong with your IEMs.. or, you're not getting the proper fit (which would account for the very type of sound you described).
   
  The V200's output impedance is less than .06 ohms, so I highly doubt the poor sound quality you're experiencing is due to inadequate damping between the V200 & IE8.  Your V200 could have some issue.. but I find that extremely unlikely, too.. since Violectric is renowned for incredible build quality and I've never once read of a defective Vio/Lake People amp.


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> "Weird, thin sound" ?  No bass?  From what I've read, the IE8 is a bass _monster_ of sorts.  Seems to me that something might be wrong with your IEMs.. or, you're not getting the proper fit (which would account for the very type of sound you described).
> 
> The V200's output impedance is less than .06 ohms, so I highly doubt the poor sound quality you're experiencing is due to inadequate damping between the V200 & IE8.  Your V200 could have some issue.. but I find that extremely unlikely, too.. since Violectric is renowned for incredible build quality and I've never once read of a defective Vio/Lake People amp.


 
  my ie8s sound perfectly fine from portable sources that i use (iphone, laptops, and yes it has bass). it sounds weird as in there clearly is an issue with the v200 and ie8, like its not driving it properly. my v200 is perfectly fine otherwise and drives my fullsized phones fine. i have noticed this with other amps as well (otl tube amp), basically certain spectrum in the sound would be missing, the only thing is tube amps also have a constant noise (tubes have higher noise floor), but v200 is quiet.


----------



## RedBull

All these praise for SR009 made me curious to try it again, today.


----------



## BournePerfect

Never heard an HD600. Fell in love with the K702/m-Stage combo though-the rig that started it all for me here, really. Think I was running it from a uDac1 at the time, too.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> gs-x mkii can drive iems? all the amps i've tried cannot, iems sound weird through them (variety of issues, no mid no bass, lots of noise, etc). does it actually make iems sound better than straight out of portable outputs?


 
  Actually its the best amp I've found for IEMs. All of the IEMs I tried with it sounded the best I heard them (SE535, Westone 4, TF10). Zero base noise/hum and incredibly great finesse with them.
  Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Peter, you stole my dance partner-but I won't complain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  LoL, lucky me.


----------



## knights

Im in


----------



## RedBull

Welcome to the club! Nice picture!


----------



## knights

redbull said:


> Welcome to the club! Nice picture!




Thanks man... Im still on my 19hrs.


----------



## Evearae

Hi hi everybody, should I buy the HD800? Is it worth the money?

 I am not truly known with it's power, and it will be my first headphone if I'd get it.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





evearae said:


> Hi hi everybody, should I buy the HD800? Is it worth the money?
> 
> I am not truly known with it's power, and it will be my first headphone if I'd get it.


 
   
  Not sure if serious or troll...


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





evearae said:


> Hi hi everybody, should I buy the HD800? Is it worth the money?
> 
> I am not truly known with it's power, and it will be my first headphone if I'd get it.


 
   
   
  What other gear do you have so far?


----------



## Evearae

I'm buying a new PC right now, so actually, nothing, I'm wanting to buy everything together, what should I get, in your opinion?
   
  The soundcard I'll get is; ASUS Xonar Essence STX
   


stalker81598 said:


> Not sure if serious or troll...


 
  I'm honestly considering buying them.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





evearae said:


> I'm buying a new PC right now, so actually, nothing, I'm wanting to buy everything together, what should I get, in your opinion?
> 
> I'm honestly considering buying them.


 
   
  Ok that's cool. Well you're skipping to what is undoubtedly one of the best headphones ever made, and along with the cost of the headphone you'll also have to take into account the gear that will be necessary to drive it. It's not a headphone you will want to plug right into the headphone jack of an iPod or something. You are going to be looking at around $2000 to $2500 for a decent rig, more if you want something high-end. You'll also end up swapping source gear a few times until you find just the right combo that sounds the best to you, and that will add to the cost. If this is within your budget then yes, definitely, it is worth the money and you will not be disappointed.
   
  I've not heard the HD800 with the Essense STX. I'm sure it will be able to drive them, but not so sure that it would be a very good pairing. You'll generally want to lean toward something that will impart a bit of warmth into the HD800 as it can be a little dry or bright to some people.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Id be kinda scared to make a jump into the hd 800s starting from nothing. Though you will have one of the best headphones available right now


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





evearae said:


> I'm buying a new PC right now, so actually, nothing, I'm wanting to buy everything together, what should I get, in your opinion?
> 
> The soundcard I'll get is; ASUS Xonar Essence STX
> 
> I'm honestly considering buying them.


 
   
  The HD800 may not be a good choice for a first headphone with the gear you have.  
   
  What kind of music do you listen to?  What sounds are important to you? -  like..  Bass, treble, vocals and so on..


----------



## Girls Generation

In my experience, HD800 was an acquired taste... My sonical preferences changed throughout my headphone adventure, though my musical tastes remained the same. I really didn't like the HD800 when I first began my quest, while I was in love with my LCD2, but towards the end, I kept reaching for the HD800 (yes, I had the LCD2.2, LCD3, and HD800 all at the same time in the same room on the same table). And then I got to demo the DNA Stratus at my home and it was all magical from there.  However, HD800 wasn't great with any of the lesser amps I used, and it really shows that you need to invest a whole lot more money to squeeze the sound out of these stubborn babies. Don't even get me started on the HD800 with O2.
   
  Don't get a sound card, get a DAC/amp.


----------



## Evearae

Quote:


girls generation said:


> In my experience, HD800 was an acquired taste... My sonical preferences changed throughout my headphone adventure, though my musical tastes remained the same. I really didn't like the HD800 when I first began my quest, while I was in love with my LCD2, but towards the end, I kept reaching for the HD800 (yes, I had the LCD2.2, LCD3, and HD800 all at the same time in the same room on the same table). And then I got to demo the DNA Stratus at my home and it was all magical from there.  However, HD800 wasn't great with any of the lesser amps I used, and it really shows that you need to invest a whole lot more money to squeeze the sound out of these stubborn babies. Don't even get me started on the HD800 with O2.
> 
> Don't get a sound card, get a DAC/amp.


 
   
  Hot dang I love how the LCD looks 
   
  Which DAC/amp would you recommend my friend?
  Quote:


preproman said:


> The HD800 may not be a good choice for a first headphone with the gear you have.
> 
> What kind of music do you listen to?  What sounds are important to you? -  like..  Bass, treble, vocals and so on..


 
   
  I listen to quite alot actually, but my favourite type is Jazz, where I love the bass guitar, so the bass. But I also love Disco. I have hundreds of LPs' from my father and mothers' youth, and enjoy the old styled music, like Rod Stewart, oh god I love me some Rod Stewart.
   
  Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> Ok that's cool. Well you're skipping to what is undoubtedly one of the best headphones ever made, and along with the cost of the headphone you'll also have to take into account the gear that will be necessary to drive it. It's not a headphone you will want to plug right into the headphone jack of an iPod or something. You are going to be looking at around $2000 to $2500 for a decent rig, more if you want something high-end. You'll also end up swapping source gear a few times until you find just the right combo that sounds the best to you, and that will add to the cost. If this is within your budget then yes, definitely, it is worth the money and you will not be disappointed.
> 
> I've not heard the HD800 with the Essense STX. I'm sure it will be able to drive them, but not so sure that it would be a very good pairing. You'll generally want to lean toward something that will impart a bit of warmth into the HD800 as it can be a little dry or bright to some people.


 
  Hey, alright!

 Thanks for the nice help, and for not bashing on me for asking all of this.
  Could you name me the gear I'll be needing? The names of the items, and all.

 I heard the Xonar Essence One is needed for it from a friend, but I don't really know if it's really required, or just his preference.


----------



## Jd007

evearae said:


> I'm buying a new PC right now, so actually, nothing, I'm wanting to buy everything together, what should I get, in your opinion?
> 
> The soundcard I'll get is; ASUS Xonar Essence STX
> 
> ...




Get the HD650 with that card. Great sound all around and the STX doesn't limit the cans' potential too much. I had an STX and the sound was a bit harsh IMO, so not really a good match for the HD800 (tho I never heard my 800 on it)


----------



## Girls Generation

If you love Jazz and bass guitar, HD800 is probably not for you AT ALL, unless you spend upwards of $3000 on a good DAC and tube amp, and still then I'd be doubtful if it'll still be the best choice. Some people will disagree with me but this is just my 2c.
   
  Depending on your budget you should opt for an LCD2 or HD650, or HE500, with an entry, but very capable, setup like Magni/Modi, or if your budget allows, Bifrost/Asgard2 or Lyr. Then when you have the money you can succumb to the vortex of upgraditis.
  Quote: 





evearae said:


> I listen to quite alot actually, but my favourite type is Jazz, where I love the bass guitar, so the bass. But I also love Disco. I have hundreds of LPs' from my father and mothers' youth, and enjoy the old styled music, like Rod Stewart, oh god I love me some Rod Stewart.
> 
> Hey, alright!
> 
> ...


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





evearae said:


> I listen to quite alot actually, but my favourite type is Jazz, where I love the bass guitar, so the bass. But I also love Disco. I have hundreds of LPs' from my father and mothers' youth, and enjoy the old styled music, like Rod Stewart, oh god I love me some Rod Stewart.
> 
> Hey, alright!
> 
> ...


 
   
  You are certain to hear a lot of people tell you that you will need an amp that costs multiple thousands of dollars just to get the HD800 to sound good. This is simply not the case. I have heard the HD800 with a couple of the "high-end" amps often mentioned here in this thread, most recently the GS-X MK2, and I still prefer the HD800 out of my Lyr. You don't have to spend a fortune to enjoy the HD800, but you do have to find something that jives well with it. That usually means taming the treble a little bit. Bifrost/Lyr combo have my recommendation for a starting setup if you are set on getting the HD800. However, I think you would be better off starting with a headphone that is a little easier to build a system for.


----------



## Evearae

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> Get the HD650 with that card. Great sound all around and the STX doesn't limit the cans' potential too much. I had an STX and the sound was a bit harsh IMO, so not really a good match for the HD800 (tho I never heard my 800 on it)


 
   
  Quote: 





girls generation said:


> If you love Jazz and bass guitar, HD800 is probably not for you AT ALL, unless you spend upwards of $3000 on a good DAC and tube amp, and still then I'd be doubtful if it'll still be the best choice. Some people will disagree with me but this is just my 2c.
> 
> Depending on your budget you should opt for an LCD2 or HD650, or HE500, with an entry, but very capable, setup like Magni/Modi, or if your budget allows, Bifrost/Asgard2 or Lyr. Then when you have the money you can succumb to the vortex of upgraditis.


 
   
  Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> You are certain to hear a lot of people tell you that you will need an amp that costs multiple thousands of dollars just to get the HD800 to sound good. This is simply not the case. I have heard the HD800 with a couple of the "high-end" amps often mentioned here in this thread, most recently the GS-X MK2, and I still prefer the HD800 out of my Lyr. You don't have to spend a fortune to enjoy the HD800, but you do have to find something that jives well with it. That usually means taming the treble a little bit. Bifrost/Lyr combo have my recommendation for a starting setup if you are set on getting the HD800. However, I think you would be better off starting with a headphone that is a little easier to build a system for.


 
   
  Thanks for the tips folk,
   
  I'm not one of those snaggy richkids that want what they want when they want it now.
  Your advice is truly appreciated and I will undoubtedly try looking into it.
   
  But with my novice experience of this all, I can't truly know what the best options are.
  Could you help me out, and tell me what you would recommend to me?
 I currently have 2100 euros, but I'm going to spend about 1100 on a computer.
  The other 1000 euros can be spend on whatever, but the budget doesn't have to be 1000 euros, I can buy a specific piece which can-do-without-the-other-pieces-but-not-too-good, and get some spare money for the other stuff, I'd greatly appreciate your contribution to my search for an awesome experience, and am incredibly thankful that you aren't bashing on me but giving me tips.


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





evearae said:


> I'm buying a new PC right now, so actually, nothing, I'm wanting to buy everything together, what should I get, in your opinion?
> 
> The soundcard I'll get is; ASUS Xonar Essence STX
> 
> I'm honestly considering buying them.


 
   
  Welcome to Head-Fi, and sorry about your wallet in advance.
   
  I personally believe HD800 is worth the money, as it boasts an astonishing level of performance for its price. There are many headphones priced higher than the HD800, yet doesn't come close to its transparency/imaging/soundstaging capabilities. The HD800 is nevertheless a flagship headphone, so it is by no means "cheap". The law of diminishing return means that there are many headphones less expensive that are of greater value than the HD800.
   
  However, if this is indeed your very first purchase of a high-end headphone, then I advise against going for the HD800 straight away. Sure, you may want to buy the best headphone there is from the start and be done with it, but I wouldn't recommend the HD800 for - no offense - novices in this hobby, because I don't want you to go down the same route I had been to only to regret and come back years later. And here's why.
   
  The HD800 is a flagship headphone revered by many to be the best dynamic transducer headphone in the market, yet it has its own fair share of haters; not just "haters gonna hate" haters, but haters for a good reason (I had been a hater of HD800 myself once, until I rediscovered its true potential with a proper amp). This is mainly because the HD800's sound has been described as analytic, clinical, cold, or even lifeless. In terms of sheer technicalities alone, many would agree that the HD800 is the pinnacle of modern headphone engineering. However, being technically perfect or close to perfect is not the only factor that people take into consideration. What the HD800 lacks in comparison to other so-called "colored" headphones is euphony, or to put in simple terms, musicality. I know it's highly subjective and not something that can be scientifically measured on paper, but it seems many people find HD800 capable of conveying "sound" in its purest form, but not "emotion" or "soul". Again, many people also disagree with this view, but I'm one of the former.
   
  Another reason I recommend against HD800 for first-timers is that the HD800 is a very picky headphone to amp. In other words, it requires a really good amplifier (and not just expensive good, but also optimized for HD800) to really open up, harness its truly potential. The general consensus is that getting the sound right with the HD800 requires you to spend at least $1K on the amp. Now I don't want to get sound prejudiced, and I cannot say for sure as I've never actually heard the Xonar Essence STX, let alone with an HD800, but my instincts tell me that a sound card for a computer, as good as it is, won't do justice to a headphone like the HD800. It's not because the sound card is bad, but because the HD800 is such a demanding and amp picky headphone. For me it took a few years to find an amp that actually sounds good with the HD800, and until then, the HD800 was a no-no for me.
   
  If you really want the HD800, then I recommend you at least compare the performance of your sound card with other headphone amps that are known to drive HD800 well, since you said that this is your first purchase and had no experience with other headphones/amps. If you find the difference huge, then you'll be tempted to upgrade your system with a better amp, no doubt (the Xonar Essence STX has RCA outputs, so all you need is a standalone headphone amp). But that's going to be a difficult journey, not to mention a costly one, so if you want to settle down with your current sound card, then I strongly recommend a headphone that's easier to drive.
   
  A good example is the Fostex TH900; it is another flagship, top-of-the-line headphone and IMO is one of the 5 best non-electrostatic headphone that is available in the market today (the others being HD800, LCD-3, HE-6, T1) Of these 5 headphones, the TH900 is the easiest to drive, and doesn't require a very good amp to sound good as other headphones do. And you're in luck; the TH900 used to be the most expensive headphone of the bunch, but its price dropped recently so that now it is priced the same as HD800. Unlike the HD800, the TH900 sounded fairly good with almost any amp, so I'm willing to bet that you'll be able to enjoy it much with your sound card. Your call.


----------



## palmfish

HD800 and Xonar Essence One is a good pairing.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

^ +1

I think asus + th-900 would be nice. Closed headphones would be great for gaming too!


----------



## Evearae

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Welcome to Head-Fi, and sorry about your wallet in advance.
> 
> I personally believe HD800 is worth the money, as it boasts an astonishing level of performance for its price. There are many headphones priced higher than the HD800, yet doesn't come close to its transparency/imaging/soundstaging capabilities. The HD800 is nevertheless a flagship headphone, so it is by no means "cheap". The law of diminishing return means that there are many headphones less expensive that are of greater value than the HD800.
> 
> ...


 
   
  You seem to have alot of knowledge, I'd appreciate it if I could PM you and ask you about tips and tricks with this, since I'm a noob and need to learn quite alot about it.
   
  Quote: 





palmfish said:


> HD800 and Xonar Essence One is a good pairing.


 
   
  Aha, I've heard of the Xonar Essence One, it looks pretty, very pretty!
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> ^ +1
> 
> I think asus + th-900 would be nice. Closed headphones would be great for gaming too!


 
  I don't game that much though :3


----------



## rgs9200m

Great, wise, perfectly articulated, and , IMHO, all true post by songmic just above here.
   
  It hits the nail on the head about the HD800, which is the biggest enigma ever to hit the high-end headphone world and very hard to get your arms (ears?) around.
Thanks songmic; posts like that are the reason I love head-fi.


----------



## BournePerfect

While I agree with everything songmic said-I'd still recommend getting the HD800 and an m-Stage. About the only amp at it's price that pairs extremely well with the Senn, although it doesn't bring it to it's potential. That's what amp upgraditis is for... 
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Evearae

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> While I agree with everything songmic said-I'd still recommend getting the HD800 and an m-Stage. About the only amp at it's price that pairs extremely well with the Senn, although it doesn't bring it to it's potential. That's what amp upgraditis is for...
> 
> -Daniel


 
  Could you link me to the upgraditis page? I have no idea what it is.
   
   
  Could I ask one thing to you folk that say it's bad.
  I would imagine that it is bad for what it COULD POTENTIALLY be, but it is still better than your average Joes' headphones is it not?
  I mean, you are complaining that it is not perfection when not put into it's potential, but it still sounds good, right?


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





evearae said:


> Could you link me to the upgraditis page? I have no idea what it is.


 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/u/124331/extrabigmehdi
   




   
  -Daniel


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





evearae said:


> Could you link me to the upgraditis page? I have no idea what it is.
> 
> 
> Could I ask one thing to you folk that say it's bad.
> ...


 
   
  That may be true of some mid-fi headphones, but HD800 and similar headphones in this tier can sound downright unpleasant if you don't use the proper source gear. Everybody hears differently though so I can't say for sure that you wouldn't like it.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> While I agree with everything songmic said-I'd still recommend getting the HD800 and an m-Stage. About the only amp at it's price that pairs extremely well with the Senn, although it doesn't bring it to it's potential. That's what amp upgraditis is for...
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  At around $200 the M-Stage is a bargain for the HD800. There's nothing to complain about when you are looking at that price point. I can't think of anything else that would pair well with the HD800 at $200.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> At around $200 the M-Stage is a bargain for the HD800. There's nothing to complain about when you are looking at that price point. I can't think of anything else that would pair well with the HD800 at $200.


 
  Yep-so far I preferred it over about a dozen low/mid tier ss amps for the HD800 ranging from $100-750. Great, great bargain amp-good synergy with the HD800 and K70x!
   
  -Daniel


----------



## skeptic

I'll offer a different perspective from some of those espoused at length above. HD800s sound wonderful driven by the modestly priced bottlehead crack kit amp ($400 with the speedball upgrade). (See the reviews on innerfidelity, headphonia, as well as the headfi crack thread, where many users, like me, report their great enjoyment of this combo.) To meet the constraints of your present budget, pair the hd800 and crack with an odac as your source. Then sit back and enjoy. Plan to upgrade the source, and possibly your amp, at some point down the road, but there is no good reason to lower your sights and buy lesser phones given your budget, at least in my opinion.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





skeptic said:


> I'll offer a different perspective from some of those espoused at length above. HD800s sound wonderful driven by the modestly priced bottlehead crack kit amp ($400 with the speedball upgrade). (See the reviews on innerfidelity, headphonia, as well as the headfi crack thread, where many users, like me, report their great enjoyment of this combo.) To meet the constraints of your present budget, pair the hd800 and crack with an odac as your source. Then sit back and enjoy. Plan to upgrade the source, and possibly your amp, at some point down the road, but there is no good reason to lower your sights and buy lesser phones given your budget, at least in my opinion.


 
  +1
   
  Haven't heard the Crack myself-but can't deny the overwhelming consensus of it paired with Sennheisers.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> At around $200 the M-Stage is a bargain for the HD800. There's nothing to complain about when you are looking at that price point. I can't think of anything else that would pair well with the HD800 at $200.


 
   
  OR one can go this way instead. i got this speaker amp custom built by a guy in Vancouver BC for alittle over $200 (plus shipping). then on his advise, i ordered 2 tomiko output trafos which did indeed improve SQ significantly. all in all, ive got $300+ invested in this amp & it sounds fab atleast compared to the Audio Gd Phoenix, & a vintage Sansui AU-517. to my ears, SS amps i have gave the HD800s good bass & wide soundstage but was more than just brittle up top so much so i can hardly stand to listen more than an hour before pins&needles-in-the-head syndrome sets in.
   
  with this simple EL84/12ax7 SE amp, bass is even better & deeper with a "bloom" in the soundstage that i did not hear with both SS amps. also while still bright, its no longer harsh & i have had fun listening til the wee hours (loud i mite add) rediscovering music. indeed, as it is, i do not find myself missing the speaker rig which says something by itself. bottomline, one doesnt need large $$$$ exotic amps to bring the senns to life.
   
  that said, ive embarked on a spree (of sorts) with a Fisher 400 receiver (which unfortunately was DOA by shipping so i cant do any listening til its repaired) & im expecting a big 300b integrated amp with headout (tapped from trafos) sometime next week. if one cant see it as yet, im totally convinced that paradise lies with them hot glowing glass enclosed electrons firing in vacuum thingys. 
   
  i woulda loved to tryout the GSX mk2 so highly praised here ofcos. 
   

   

   

   

   
  btw ive also started an inquiry with said amp builder to see if he can build me a high end (by his standards) using the best quality parts thats optimized for headphones instead of only speakers. will be glad to update anyone here with a healthy need to know. fwiw, the ungainly position of the 2 output trafos is all my work as i (inaptly i mite add) installed the trafos myself.


----------



## kensonic

@songmic,

May I ask you 
a) what was the best amp you personally heard with the HD800 and
b) would you buy again the ECZD as amp for your HD800 ?

Thanks !


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> OR one can go this way instead. i got this speaker amp custom built by a guy in Vancouver BC for alittle over $200 (plus shipping). then on his advise, i ordered 2 tomiko output trafos which did indeed improve SQ significantly. all in all, ive got $300+ invested in this amp & it sounds fab atleast compared to the Audio Gd Phoenix, & a vintage Sansui AU-517. to my ears, SS amps i have gave the HD800s good bass & wide soundstage but was more than just brittle up top so much so i can hardly stand to listen more than an hour before pins&needles-in-the-head syndrome sets in.
> 
> with this simple EL84/12ax7 SE amp, bass is even better & deeper with a "bloom" in the soundstage that i did not hear with both SS amps. also while still bright, its no longer harsh & i have had fun listening til the wee hours (loud i mite add) rediscovering music. indeed, as it is, i do not find myself missing the speaker rig which says something by itself. bottomline, one doesnt need large $$$$ exotic amps to bring the senns to life.
> 
> ...


 
   
  You don't need to tell me that  I have my Anedio D1 dac/amp as my HD800 rig. I used to have the Mjolnir amp but downsized to where I am now.


----------



## palmfish

I personally think the HD800's, while maybe not the best choice for a first headphone, certainly are an OK first headphone. For a casual listener, they sound fine plugged right into an iPod. Certainly not realizing their potential, but they still sound like HD800's, ie: airy, spacious, detailed, articulate, etc. 

I have never heard the M-Stage but I have heard good things about it as well. Hard to beat for $200 - although you still need to get a DAC to pair with it. 

I still say that, for around $500, the Asus Essence One is tough to beat. Fantastic DAC and good headamp all in one. I do agree with DSG that the Fostex TH-900 is probably the better choice as a first high end headphone. Easy to drive, sounds good with any amp, and has a "more accessible" sound signature thats pleasing to more people.

All IMO of course...


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I personally think the HD800's, while maybe not the best choice for a first headphone, certainly are an OK first headphone. For a casual listener, they sound fine plugged right into an iPod. Certainly not realizing their potential, but they still sound like HD800's, ie: airy, spacious, detailed, articulate, etc.
> 
> I have never heard the M-Stage but I have heard good things about it as well. Hard to beat for $200 - although you still need to get a DAC to pair with it.
> 
> ...


 
  Agreed on all counts!
   
  Also, the m-Stage has a version with a built in dac-better than nothing I'd imagine-the amp/HD800 synergy is the star of the show here though.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## bearFNF

@*Evearae* - I would also suggest getting to a local meet (if possible) and a local vendor that has the gear and listen to them for yourself.
   
  Nothing beats first hand experience, IMO...


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> @*Evearae* - I would also suggest getting to a local meet (if possible) and a local vendor that has the gear and listen to them for yourself.
> 
> Nothing beats first hand experience, IMO...


 
  Depending on the listening environment and condition, this can sometimes give misleading results. I have done this myself, where the experience at the store was very good, then when I get home with my purchase it was not as good as I thought. The best way is to find a store (local or online) with great return policy, and audition at home for some time (a week at least I'd say, preferably 2 weeks to 1 month if possible). Of course this requires you to have the funds first.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> Depending on the listening environment and condition, this can sometimes give misleading results. I have done this myself, where the experience at the store was very good, then when I get home with my purchase it was not as good as I thought. The best way is to find a store (local or online) with great return policy, and audition at home for some time (a week at least I'd say, preferably 2 weeks to 1 month if possible). Of course this requires you to have the funds first.


 
  absolutely +1 to the infinity!! lols. brief auditions esp in a noisy enviroment with unfamiliar ancillary equipment & music source can easily lead to false impressions. while it may give me a taste of the sonic siggy, i need to live with equipment for an appropriate period before my brains starts picking out the abnormalities differences! heh


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> You are certain to hear a lot of people tell you that you will need an amp that costs multiple thousands of dollars just to get the HD800 to sound good. This is simply not the case. I have heard the HD800 with a couple of the "high-end" amps often mentioned here in this thread, most recently the GS-X MK2, and I still prefer the HD800 out of my Lyr. You don't have to spend a fortune to enjoy the HD800, but you do have to find something that jives well with it. That usually means taming the treble a little bit. Bifrost/Lyr combo have my recommendation for a starting setup if you are set on getting the HD800. However, I think you would be better off starting with a headphone that is a little easier to build a system for.


 
  You've said that several times...but it is VERY far from my experiences with the Lyr. I used to own the Lyr for about a year and with tubes that were pretty much worth the Lyr itself. Sorry, but with the HD800s or T1s it was a slow brute that couldn't articulate the nuances of the music. It made the HD800s seem slow and plodding regardless of tubes that I ran with it. The WA22 or LF (that I had on hand) stomped it into the ground it wasn't close. And now that the GS-X MKII stomps on the WA22/LF, I'll let you guess how high I hold the Lyr with the HD800s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Heck, I found the Schiit Valhalla a much nicer "budget" match for the HD800s.
   
  Please remember it was designed as an ortho amp for the LCD-2s and HE-6s when they first came out. It was designed around their unique power requirements and all the magic smoke talk only served to blow out my Ed. 8s when I plugged them in with the volume dial set to "0". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


 (And a few other low impedance cans went too with other owners). 
   
Here's a very useful review between the older GS-X model (and the MKII is that much better) 



 and the Lyr by Asr, pretty spot on IMO:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/580636/mini-review-schiit-lyr
   
  So to sum up my experiences, can the HD800s sound "nice" out of mid-fi amps....sure, but you're leaving a lot of cards on the table in terms of what they can really do and to really get to hear what they're about you'll need to look at your full rig: source, dac, amp, etc....
   
  This is pretty much summarizes my last 3 years with my HD800s and with a lot of different gear.


----------



## Jd007

@MacedonianHero: since you've had experience with so many setups on the HD800, what would you say is the best tube amp for the HD800? Also in terms of both tube and SS, what do you say is the best for $1k-2k range?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> @MacedonianHero: since you've had experience with so many setups on the HD800, what would you say is the best tube amp for the HD800? Also in terms of both tube and SS, what do you say is the best for $1k-2k range?


 
  For the $1k range, WA2 for a tubey experience or WA6SE for a bit more of a solid state sound. The MAD Ear+HD Super II was also a great match for them. For $2k, the WA22 was fantastic (but the tube compliment I needed was about $1kish 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). The Zana Deux was pretty good too with the HD800s.
   
  On a budget, I'd go with the Schiit Valhalla.


----------



## Maxvla

macedonianhero said:


> Oh God no. Sorry...I'm a big fan of the HD800s and the SR009s are in a whole new class over them with every genre of music. As clean and transparent as the HD800s are, the SR-009s make them seem muddy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My impressions are the exact opposite. I've heard the SR-009 on a few different amps now, none of them fix the SR-009s.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> My impressions are the exact opposite. I've heard the SR-009 on a few different amps now, none of them fix the SR-009s.


 
   
  Heard them at a meet is one thing.....get them home....and they're a revelation! Ross' (baka1969) comment was *"it's not even worth going back to the HD800s now"*. He had access to them for a solid week in my listening room while he was here for a visit....he's been around the block many times too.
   
  I don't want to make you feel that I'm invalidating your feelings 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


, but I strongly recommend you see if you can get them home with a KGSS or KGSSHV. Simply magical to my ears (and I've been around the block a few times as well). Seeing that you'll be picking up the GS-X MKII, sorry, it won't bridge that wide gap to my ears.


----------



## Maxvla

jd007 said:


> damn this makes me a bit sad with my hd800 lol. i wish i could hear the sr009s cuz i'd rather not buy blind on these $3.6k headphones...



Don't be. They aren't better.


----------



## Maxvla

macedonianhero said:


> Heard them at a meet is one thing.....get them home....and they're a revelation!



I've had solo time with them in a silent room. (Before a meet got started, when only myself and MorbidToaster were there yet)


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> I've had solo time with them in a silent room. (Before a meet got started, when only myself and MorbidToaster were there yet)


 
  The amp, a LL?
   
  BTW, I know what MorbidToaster thinks...he's said many times just how much the SR-009s are in a league above the HD800s.


----------



## Maxvla

citadel said:


> Wow..Really?? The Sr-009 makes the HD800 sound muddy? That's amazing.  What cable did you use with the HD800?
> 
> I'd heard the sr-009 had a tiny bit less "plankton level detail" compared to the HD800, but sounded much more smooth. Is this statement not true?
> 
> I have to demo the sr--009!



That is generally true, but the SR-009 fails at delivering a realistic presentation.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> That is generally true, but the SR-009 fails at delivering a realistic presentation.


 
  ? This makes no sense to me. I've got them on right now and NOTHING is as real as this...not even $50k Wilson speakers that my buddy owns.
   
  You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but I hear it just like Tyll and Jude:
  http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-stax-sr-009
  http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-conclusions
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/560425/stax-sr-009-best-headphone-ever-made-head-fi-tv-episode-008


----------



## khaine1711

The stats sound isn't for everyone


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





khaine1711 said:


> The stats sound isn't for everyone


 
  Here's my story, it wasn't for me either....until I heard the SR-009s. I had a full 30 days to return them to HeadAmp when I bought them for a full refund (and my wallet really wanted too)....9 months later and they're still here (looks like my ears won). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  That said, my HD800s are still here and they're not going anywhere, I still hold them in such high regard.


----------



## zigy626

I am starting to love the Lehmann Black Cube Linear. It sounds lovely with the HD800. I think not many people in the US are aware of the amplifier but in Europe it is highly regarded. I personally feel the amp requires a considerable amount of time for burn-in. Its around a $1000 but I think it worth the price.


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Here's my story, it wasn't for me either....until I heard the SR-009s. I had 30 days to return them to HeadAmp when I bought them for a full refund....9 months later and they're still here.


 
  I remember way back then you even considered the Audezes to be better than the Omega.
   
  Still, preference is a large deciding factor. I love stats for death metal (blasphemy, I know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   


zigy626 said:


> I am starting to love the Lehmann Black Cube Linear. It sounds lovely with the HD800. I think not many people in the US are aware of the amplifier but in Europe it is highly regarded. I personally feel the amp requires a considerable amount of time for burn-in. Its around a $1000 but I think it worth the price.


 

  People are very much aware of its 200 bucks clone though =p.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





khaine1711 said:


> *I remember way back then you even considered the Audezes to be better than the Omega.*
> 
> Still, preference is a large deciding factor. I love stats for death metal (blasphemy, I know
> 
> ...


 
  I still do (LCD-3s that is). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That said, the SR-007 MKI on my HeadAmp KGSS was a bit of a re-discovery/revelation.
   
  I love metal (more Ozzy, Sabbath, Metallica, Motorhead...more old school) with the SR-009s and HD800s.


----------



## Maxvla

evearae said:


> I'm buying a new PC right now, so actually, nothing, I'm wanting to buy everything together, what should I get, in your opinion?
> 
> The soundcard I'll get is; ASUS Xonar Essence STX
> 
> ...



I would go with Objective 2 amp and DAC or a Matrix M-Stage amp with the Objective DAC to get started. Both combos are less than $400. You can try the Schiit Audio Magni and Modi, which is well regarded, but I haven't heard the combo myself with the HD800 so I'm not sure how they synergize. That combo is $200 if I recall correctly. I've heard the Objective 2 amp and DAC and the M-Stage and think there's little reason to buy anything between them and top of the line ($2000+) amps. There are certainly differences in those extremes, and I find the amps in between don't justify the expense of buying and selling over and over as you go up. DACs are a little different as you need to find the voicing and presentation you like, then deal with any lacking proficiency (smoothness/grain/harshness/detail/soundstage/sibilance/etc).

I would skip the sound card as others have mentioned.


----------



## Maxvla

bourneperfect said:


> Agreed on all counts!
> 
> Also, the m-Stage has a version with a built in dac-better than nothing I'd imagine-the amp/HD800 synergy is the star of the show here though.
> 
> -Daniel



The built in DAC is not up to par. I have one. Just... don't...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> The built in DAC is not up to par. I have one. Just... don't...


 
  Any updates on the ETA of your new GS-X MKII?


----------



## Maxvla

macedonianhero said:


> Heard them at a meet is one thing.....get them home....and they're a revelation! Ross' (baka1969) comment was *"it's not even worth going back to the HD800s now"*. He had access to them for a solid week in my listening room while he was here for a visit....he's been around the block many times too.
> 
> I don't want to make you feel that I'm invalidating your feelings
> 
> ...



Don't be sorry. To my ears the GS-X II + HD800 combo is a large gap ahead of any amp and SR-009s. I haven't heard the new Electra or the venerable T2, but I doubt they can overcome the planar problem.



macedonianhero said:


> The amp, a LL?
> 
> BTW, I know what MorbidToaster thinks...he's said many times just how much the SR-009s are in a league above the HD800s.



I know what he thinks, too. I've spent a few more minutes with him than you have.  We agree to disagree.


----------



## Maxvla

zigy626 said:


> I am starting to love the Lehmann Black Cube Linear. It sounds lovely with the HD800. I think not many people in the US are aware of the amplifier but in Europe it is highly regarded. I personally feel the amp requires a considerable amount of time for burn-in. Its around a $1000 but I think it worth the price.



Most people in the states use the Matrix M-Stage which is a BCL clone at 1/4 the price of the Lehmann.



macedonianhero said:


> Any updates on the ETA of your new GS-X MKII?



Not really. It will be done when it's done. BHSE production is in progress atm and GS-X II is to follow. Maybe another month or two.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> *Don't be sorry.* To my ears the GS-X II + HD800 combo is a large gap ahead of any amp and SR-009s. I haven't heard the new Electra or the venerable T2, but I doubt they can overcome the planar problem.
> I know what he thinks, too. I've spent a few more minutes with him than you have.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  LoL, I'm Canadian...can't help myself but apologize. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


 That said, to my ears, even with the 727II, the SR-009s were a full league above the HD800/GS-X MKII, we shall agree to disagree. Speaking of which, ETA of your new GS-X MKII?


----------



## rawrster

People have different opinions and that's just great. I like my O2 over the SR009. However I have flirted on more than one occasion with selling my HD800 and D1 and using the money from that to buy a SR009 however I can never get myself to do that. It's just too much of an investment for a secondary rig imo at least.


----------



## MickeyVee

Hey MH.. are you saying that the Valhalla is a better match with the HD800 than the Lyr? If so, in what way?
  I'm definitely staying in the budget territory but am thinking of the Woo WA7.  The numbers on the Woo comparison PDF show the WA7 close to the WA2. Any comments on that.
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> You've said that several times...but it is VERY far from my experiences with the Lyr. I used to own the Lyr for about a year and with tubes that were pretty much worth the Lyr itself. Sorry, but with the HD800s or T1s it was a slow brute that couldn't articulate the nuances of the music. It made the HD800s seem slow and plodding regardless of tubes that I ran with it. The WA22 or LF (that I had on hand) stomped it into the ground it wasn't close. And now that the GS-X MKII stomps on the WA22/LF, I'll let you guess how high I hold the Lyr with the HD800s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## zigy626

Just to address this Myth that Matrix M-Stage is a clone of Lehmann BCL. I have tried both amplifiers and M-Stage sounds nothing like the BCL. The difference is night and day. M-Stage is a warm sounding amplifier and imparts a sound signature of its own, however the BCL is very transparent and not a warm sounding amp at all. I bought the M-Stage for my HD650's and was very disappointed as it sounded even worse than my Fiio E09K. Sold it off on ebay for a loss.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Hey MH.. are you saying that the Valhalla is a better match with the HD800 than the Lyr? If so, in what way?
> I'm definitely staying in the budget territory but am thinking of the Woo WA7.  The numbers on the Woo comparison PDF show the WA7 close to the WA2. Any comments on that.


 
  I haven't heard the WA7 yet, but ears I trust (Frank I) was very happy with the combination...and he mentioned that the DAC included was pretty good. I found the HD800s more coherent with the Valhalla compared to the Lyr. The Lyr as I mentioned was too much brute force for the HD800s and couldn't finesse around complicated pieces of music very well. The Valhalla did a better job to my ears. I wasn't a fan of the Lyr for any headphones except for the LCD-2 and HE-500/6. Notice...all orthos. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  For under $1k, the MAD Super II is one excellent option and along with the WA2 and WA6SE was among my top choices for tube amps in this range.


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Hey MH.. are you saying that the Valhalla is a better match with the HD800 than the Lyr? If so, in what way?
> I'm definitely staying in the budget territory but am thinking of the Woo WA7.  The numbers on the Woo comparison PDF show the WA7 close to the WA2. *Any comments on that.*


 
  Numbers don't say anything much. The WA7, being transformer-coupled, will sound distinctly different from the WA2.
   
   


> Just to address this Myth that Matrix M-Stage is a clone of Lehmann BCL. I have tried both amplifiers and M-Stage sounds nothing like the BCL. The difference is night and day. M-Stage is a warm sounding amplifier and imparts a sound signature of its own, however the BCL is very transparent and not a warm sounding amp at all. I bought the M-Stage for my HD650's and was very disappointed as it sounded even worse than my Fiio E09K. Sold it off on ebay for a loss.


 
  It is a clone of the BCL, with a few modifications here and there. There's another exact clone called the lovely cube. Of course they don't sound the same, parts choice plays a huge part in any design. You could only do so much with ~100 bucks worth of parts afterall.


----------



## Maxvla

zigy626 said:


> Just to address this Myth that Matrix M-Stage is a clone of Lehmann BCL. I have tried both amplifiers and M-Stage sounds nothing like the BCL. The difference is night and day. M-Stage is a warm sounding amplifier and imparts a sound signature of its own, however the BCL is very transparent and not a warm sounding amp at all. I bought the M-Stage for my HD650's and was very disappointed as it sounded even worse than my Fiio E09K. Sold it off on ebay for a loss.



Hm. I'm quite happy with the M-Stage as a stand in while I want for my GS-X II. It does seem to have particular synergy with the HD800 though, not the HD650 you used.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Hm. I'm quite happy with the M-Stage as a stand in while I want for my GS-X II. It does seem to have particular synergy with the HD800 though, not the HD650 you used.


 
  To be frank with you I would not hook up a $1500 headphone into something that cost $200. At the time I bought the M-Stage there was a lot of talk about DC-Offset with Schitt amps and what it does to the transducer on AKG K701. Someone even made a video of it. Watching that video scared the Schitt out of me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  I am just saying cheap parts wont protect you from that sudden burst of DC-Offset if something goes wrong inside your M-Stage.


----------



## Maxvla

That's pretty silly. As long as the product is made correctly it doesn't matter what it cost. Your high end amp could fail just as easily as the inexpensive one if there was a faulty part that wasn't caught in the screening process. Most amps, cheap and expensive both use inexpensive parts. Usually it's the casing, the R+D, and the markup that are the difference between cheap and expensive. Little resistors and opamps and such are the same in both types of amps. Some notable exceptions are there (transformers/etc), but even in a GS-X II there are parts that cost less than a dollar each, I would wager.


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> To be frank with you I would not hook up a $1500 headphone into something that cost $200. At the time I bought the M-Stage there was a lot of talk about DC-Offset with Schitt amps and what it does to the transducer on AKG K701. Someone even made a video of it. Watching that video scared the Schitt out of me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  There is nothing wrong with $200 amps if they are made properly by people who care about sound. I have a Little Dot MK III with my HD800 and I find it better than some much more expensive amps, including the Lyr (w/ $80 NOS tubes) and some $1k SS amps. You should not judge something by the price, which varies a lot depending on where it is made (LD is made in China which has much cheaper parts and labor cost). Only judge by ears and internal examination of build/parts quality.


----------



## DarKen23

macedonianhero said:


> mickeyvee said:
> 
> 
> > Hey MH.. are you saying that the Valhalla is a better match with the HD800 than the Lyr? If so, in what way?
> ...



Interesting, I didn't find the lyr exciting at all with the LCD2. The mjolnir is a different story however.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> That's pretty silly. As long as the product is made correctly it doesn't matter what it cost. Your high end amp could fail just as easily as the inexpensive one if there was a faulty part that wasn't caught in the screening process. Most amps, cheap and expensive both use inexpensive parts. Usually it's the casing, the R+D, and the markup that are the difference between cheap and expensive. Little resistors and opamps and such are the same in both types of amps. Some notable exceptions are there (transformers/etc), but even in a GS-X II there are parts that cost less than a dollar each, I would wager.


 
  My logic is the I would rather be sitting in a BMW than a Fiat Punto when it all goes belly-up. And frankly I am sure Lehmann spend considerable time quality testing components they are putting inside the amplifier. These same amplifiers are then being used in recording studios. There is a certain pride in the product and attention to detail. Frankly its the attention to detail you are paying the high price for. This thing is so transparent that I am picking up every imperfection in recording, its tiring sometimes.


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> My logic is the I would rather be sitting in a BMW than a Fiat Punto when it all goes belly-up. And frankly I am sure Lehmann spend considerable time quality testing components they are putting inside the amplifier. These same amplifiers are then being used in recording studios. There is a certain pride in the product and attention to detail. Frankly its the attention to detail you are paying the high price for. This thing is so transparent that I am picking up every imperfection in recording, its tiring sometimes.


 
  That's slightly incorrect though. Car goes belly up, you die. Amp goes belly up, your phones still live (well mostly). Case in point if things went wrong with your BCL (or even the M-stage), I don't think your HD800 will be harmed.
   
  The Lyr is certainly an exception, due to its high power nature.
   
  My point is that don't hesitate to try stuff because of safety. Even Chinese-made stuff is mostly safe these days.


----------



## RedBull

zigy626 said:


> I am starting to love the Lehmann Black Cube Linear. It sounds lovely with the HD800. I think not many people in the US are aware of the amplifier but in Europe it is highly regarded. I personally feel the amp requires a considerable amount of time for burn-in. Its around a $1000 but I think it worth the price.




BCL is a nice, very detail, smooth sounding amp. I like it.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





khaine1711 said:


> That's slightly incorrect though. Car goes belly up, you die. Amp goes belly up, your phones still live (well mostly). Case in point if things went wrong with your BCL (or even the M-stage), I don't think your HD800 will be harmed.
> 
> The Lyr is certainly an exception, due to its high power nature.
> 
> My point is that don't hesitate to try stuff because of safety. Even Chinese-made stuff is mostly safe these days.


 
  Point taken but I still would not take my HD800 anywhere near a Little Dot or M-Stage or Lovely Cube. It just my personal issue. In my mind Chinese companies are all about mass production, low wages and cheap products. I would buy Made in China in a heartbeat if it says Rotel, Cambridge Audio, Bower and Wilkinson, Apple because I am putting my faith in the brand, their quality control, R&D, and proper wages.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Point taken but I still would not take my HD800 anywhere near a Little Dot or M-Stage or Lovely Cube. It just my personal issue. In my mind Chinese companies are all about mass production, low wages and cheap products. I would buy Made in China in a heartbeat if it says Rotel, Cambridge Audio, Bower and Wilkinson, Apple because I am putting my faith in the brand, their quality control, R&D, and proper wages.


 
   
  So no Opera or HiFiMan either, huh?
   
  http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-look-inside-the-chinese-audio-industry/
   
  Nothing wrong with that, but it'll cost ya!


----------



## Maxvla

zigy626 said:


> Point taken but I still would not take my HD800 anywhere near a Little Dot or M-Stage or Lovely Cube. It just my personal issue. In my mind Chinese companies are all about mass production, low wages and cheap products. I would buy Made in China in a heartbeat if it says Rotel, Cambridge Audio, Bower and Wilkinson, Apple because I am putting my faith in the brand, their quality control, R&D, and proper wages.



You do realize many of those things you listed as safe are made in China and surrounding areas, right? Apple products are entirely asian made, and they come with plenty of problems.


----------



## Jd007

Quote:


zigy626 said:


> Point taken but I still would not take my HD800 anywhere near a Little Dot or M-Stage or Lovely Cube. It just my personal issue. In my mind Chinese companies are all about mass production, low wages and cheap products. I would buy Made in China in a heartbeat if it says Rotel, Cambridge Audio, Bower and Wilkinson, Apple because I am putting my faith in the brand, their quality control, R&D, and proper wages.


   
  Not to sound rude but this just shows your ignorance in the Chinese audiophile equipment manufacturing industry.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> So no Opera or HiFiMan either, huh?
> 
> http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-look-inside-the-chinese-audio-industry/
> 
> Nothing wrong with that, but it'll cost ya!


 
  I tried Hifiman, bought two pairs of HE-500 and both had channel imbalance/ driver mismatch. After reading review after review from Head-fi members I was completely shocked with the first pair, thinking it might be a one off thing I ordered another and it had the same issue (although to a lesser extent). Contacted the customer service who asked me to ship it back to china at my own cost. Lesson learned, added up my pennies and bought the wonderful HD800 and never looked back. Cant say much about the other company you mentioned.


----------



## Stalker81598

macedonianhero said:


> You've said that several times...but it is VERY far from my experiences with the Lyr. I used to own the Lyr for about a year and with tubes that were pretty much worth the Lyr itself. Sorry, but with the HD800s or T1s it was a slow brute that couldn't articulate the nuances of the music. It made the HD800s seem slow and plodding regardless of tubes that I ran with it. The WA22 or LF (that I had on hand) stomped it into the ground it wasn't close. And now that the GS-X MKII stomps on the WA22/LF, I'll let you guess how high I hold the Lyr with the HD800s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 
  I think you may be forgetting that my preferences in audio may not be exactly the same as yours. You prefer a sound of maximum detail and resolution regardless of how dry it might sound, but I do not. The HD800 still retains its soundstage, layering abilities and much of its detail retrieval even with the Lyr. All of the "faults" of the Lyr that you listed are the reasons I like it. I like the slower sound of the Lyr with the HD800. It makes the mids wetter and the bass fatter. It brings it a little closer to the sound of my HE-500 which, in my opinion, is a better headphone (albeit with its own weaknesses). You can tell me that the Lyr sucks with the HD800 until you're blue in the face, but it's not going to make me want to go out and buy a GS-X. I did not like the clinical and dry sound of the GS-X. That said, I would like to hear the HD800 with the WA2.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> Not to sound rude but this just shows your ignorance in the Chinese audiophile equipment manufacturing industry.


 
  Sorry for my ignorance but please name some Chinese brands that make Hi-end audio gear. Not International companies that outsource production to china. I will look into them read the reviews and it would add to my knowledge about Chinese Hi-End audio. Maybe I might even change my mind. Thanks


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Sorry for my ignorance but please name some Chinese brands that make Hi-end audio gear. Not International companies that outsource production to china. I will look into them read the reviews and it would add to my knowledge about Chinese Hi-End audio. Maybe I might even change my mind. Thanks


 
  Little Dot is one of them, Audio-GD is another. I have personally had experience with the quality of products of Little Dot but not Audio-GD. The point is that to dismiss all Chinese made audio gear as cheap, mass produced crap in a general sweeping motion is absurd. There are small manufacturers in China that focus on making quality audio equipment by hand (not mass produced as the market is not that big). In fact, I doubt there is anybody in the world doing mass production of tube headphone amps (in the tens of hundreds of thousands), because the demand is simply not there.
   
  On the HE500s, HiFiMAN did have some QC issues with early batches of HE500, as they tend to launch products rapidly. But they have since addressed the issue and the HE500s I recently purchased had no issues (neither does many others who purchased after the QC issue was brought to light). Of course it should never had happened in the first place and I'm not finding excuses for them, but it is a one-time thing which they fixed quickly.


----------



## RedBull

^ Try audio-gd products, they sound wonderful, I like it much more than some non chinese brands (preference applied) and they are reliable.


----------



## Stalker81598

jd007 said:


> Little Dot is one of them, Audio-GD is another. I have personally had experience with the quality of products of Little Dot but not Audio-GD. The point is that to dismiss all Chinese made audio gear as cheap, mass produced crap in a general sweeping motion is absurd. There are small manufacturers in China that focus on making quality audio equipment by hand (not mass produced as the market is not that big). In fact, I doubt there is anybody in the world doing mass production of tube headphone amps (in the tens of hundreds of thousands), because the demand is simply not there.
> 
> On the HE500s, HiFiMAN did have some QC issues with early batches of HE500, as they tend to launch products rapidly. But they have since addressed the issue and the HE500s I recently purchased had no issues (neither does many others who purchased after the QC issue was brought to light). Of course it should never had happened in the first place and I'm not finding excuses for them, but it is a one-time thing which they fixed quickly.




I'm going to have to agree. Disregarding a product just because of its country of origin is pretty silly.


----------



## DarKen23

zigy626 said:


> jd007 said:
> 
> 
> > Not to sound rude but this just shows your ignorance in the Chinese audiophile equipment manufacturing industry.
> ...



Yulong products


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





kensonic said:


> @songmic,
> 
> May I ask you
> a) what was the best amp you personally heard with the HD800 and
> ...


 
   
  a) The best amp I've heard with HD800 was Allnic HPA5000, although it is said to be optimized for low impedance headphones. The best solid-state amp I heard was the Bakoon HPA-21.
  b) Yes, I would buy the ZDSE amp again for the HD800 (and TH900).


----------



## DarKen23

stalker81598 said:


> macedonianhero said:
> 
> 
> > You've said that several times...but it is VERY far from my experiences with the Lyr. I used to own the Lyr for about a year and with tubes that were pretty much worth the Lyr itself. Sorry, but with the HD800s or T1s it was a slow brute that couldn't articulate the nuances of the music. It made the HD800s seem slow and plodding regardless of tubes that I ran with it. The WA22 or LF (that I had on hand) stomped it into the ground it wasn't close. And now that the GS-X MKII stomps on the WA22/LF, I'll let you guess how high I hold the Lyr with the HD800s.
> ...



Thank you for your honest opinion. I also enjoy a more organic/wet sound with a more fuller presence in the bass, I didn't like the way my LCD2 sounded with the lyr, the retrieval seemed dull to me, I would however, like to try the lyr again with an hd800. Have you had the chance with the mjolnir and the 800s?


----------



## LugBug1

I love the hD800's. The reason I love them is because of the sound-stage and imaging. The detail retrieval is amazing, but in my opinion the resolution doesn't need to be pronounced any more than an average amp gives (as long as you have a capable dac). For my preferences, any amp that gives a fullness and weight to the sound really compliments the HD800's. I don't use it for mixing or producing. I don't need to hear the cat in the next room of the recording studio breaking wind. If I want to hear a cat breaking wind I'll feed my own ***** left over curry... What I mean is  The strengths of the HD800 are their versatility. If you want to extort the resolution, then yes get a high end amp that will pronounce and shape detail to the third degree. But if like me and many others, who just want a musical sound (we are audiophiles as well). And by that I mean, rounded, full, deep, smoother and engaging without being tiring. You can get this without spending too much money. Amplifiers are amplifiers. The headphone is the work of technical merit in this case. So my advice to anyone looking into this hp is to just buy it, then play with amps. Any amp. You'll soon find a sound to your liking. $100 vintage integrate for a start  And the M-stage is a winner too. So is the Audio gd stuff, Little dot's, Yulong is also fabulous make.


----------



## Girls Generation

As someone who likes a balance in the FR and not-so-lean-but-not-so-loose bass/mids, the Lyr was way too wet for my ears, losing detail and realism, and the HD800 still sounded a bit too lean with the Mjolnir. I kept yearning for a bit more bass extension and presence.
  Quote: 





darken23 said:


> Thank you for your honest opinion. I also enjoy a more organic/wet sound with a more fuller presence in the bass, I didn't like the way my LCD2 sounded with the lyr, the retrieval seemed dull to me, I would however, like to try the lyr again with an hd800. Have you had the chance with the mjolnir and the 800s?


----------



## DarKen23

lugbug1 said:


> I love the hD800's. The reason I love them is because of the sound-stage and imaging. The detail retrieval is amazing, but in my opinion the resolution doesn't need to be pronounced any more than an average amp gives (as long as you have a capable dac). For my preferences, any amp that gives a fullness and weight to the sound really compliments the HD800's. I don't use it for mixing or producing. I don't need to hear the cat in the next room of the recording studio breaking wind. If I want to hear a cat breaking wind I'll feed my own ***** left over curry... What I mean is  The strengths of the HD800 are their versatility. If you want to extort the resolution, then yes get a high end amp that will pronounce and shape detail to the third degree. But if like me and many others, who just want a musical sound (we are audiophiles as well). And by that I mean, rounded, full, deep, smoother and engaging without being tiring. You can get this without spending too much money. Amplifiers are amplifiers. The headphone is the work of technical merit in this case. So my advice to anyone looking into this hp is to just buy it, then play with amps. Any amp. You'll soon find a sound to your liking. $100 vintage integrate for a start  And the M-stage is a winner too. So is the Audio gd stuff, Little dot's, Yulong is also fabulous make.



Thanks for your input. Yea I love my Yulong D18, very musical dac, pleasure to listen to every time I get on it.
As for your input about amplifiers, I honestly can't say much because I currently do not own the hd800 (I'm planning on making the purchase this week, tis why I'm here). From what I've read, the hd800 seems to be quite nitpicky about the pairing. The main reason I asked about the pairing with the mjolnir is because I have it, and I don't feel like purchasing an amp while getting the hd800 in the same week, even the week after xD


----------



## DarKen23

girls generation said:


> As someone who likes a balance in the FR and not-so-lean-but-not-so-loose bass/mids, the Lyr was way too wet for my ears, losing detail and realism, and the HD800 still sounded a bit too lean with the Mjolnir. I kept yearning for a bit more bass extension and presence.
> 
> 
> darken23 said:
> ...



I don't think anyone had said the mjolnir is bass-light, I do not feel its lean in the bass region at all. Comparing it to the lyr, the mjolnir's bass is far better controlled, tight, cleaner with excellent speed.
It could just be the hd800 and the mjolnir's pairing. 

*edit* I realized that I read your post incorrectly, apologies. You were not referring to the mjolnir on its own, but rather the pairing of it with the 800s.


----------



## Stalker81598

darken23 said:


> Thank you for your honest opinion. I also enjoy a more organic/wet sound with a more fuller presence in the bass, I didn't like the way my LCD2 sounded with the lyr, the retrieval seemed dull to me, I would however, like to try the lyr again with an hd800. Have you had the chance with the mjolnir and the 800s?



 
  


darken23 said:


> I don't think anyone had said the mjolnir is bass-light, I do not feel its lean in the bass region at all. Comparing it to the lyr, the mjolnir's bass is far better controlled, tight, cleaner with excellent speed.
> It could just be the hd800 and the mjolnir's pairing.
> 
> 
> ...



 
 I haven't heard the Mjolnir but from the overwhelming negative accounts of its pairing with the HD800, I'm a bit turned off to trying it. Also, I don't have a balanced cable for my HD800.

 I don't think the HD800 is nitpicky, but it is very transparent and tends to take on the characteristics of the gear it is connected to. I think what you said about the Mjolnir having a very quick and tight sound is why many say the two don't pair well. The HD800 is already quick and tight so using an amp with the same attributes can make it sound a bit thin. As I said, I haven't heard the Mjolnir so I'm just speculating.

  


lugbug1 said:


> I love the hD800's. The reason I love them is because of the sound-stage and imaging. The detail retrieval is amazing, but in my opinion the resolution doesn't need to be pronounced any more than an average amp gives (as long as you have a capable dac). For my preferences, any amp that gives a fullness and weight to the sound really compliments the HD800's. I don't use it for mixing or producing. I don't need to hear the cat in the next room of the recording studio breaking wind. If I want to hear a cat breaking wind I'll feed my own ***** left over curry... What I mean is  The strengths of the HD800 are their versatility. If you want to extort the resolution, then yes get a high end amp that will pronounce and shape detail to the third degree. But if like me and many others, who just want a musical sound (we are audiophiles as well). And by that I mean, rounded, full, deep, smoother and engaging without being tiring. You can get this without spending too much money. Amplifiers are amplifiers. The headphone is the work of technical merit in this case. So my advice to anyone looking into this hp is to just buy it, then play with amps. Any amp. You'll soon find a sound to your liking. $100 vintage integrate for a start  And the M-stage is a winner too. So is the Audio gd stuff, Little dot's, Yulong is also fabulous make.



 
 I couldn't possibly agree more. I like having some detail but I'm not concerned with squeezing maximum resolution out of my headphones. To me, that just makes them less enjoyable, especially since most modern music isn't recorded that well. In my experience, I've found the HD800 benefits greatly from gear that can imbue a bit of warmth and character into it, and the Lyr fits the bill for me. I find myself enjoying my music far more with the Lyr than I have with any other amp I've heard the HD800 with, even if it isn't the maximum high-fidelity experience that some strive for.


----------



## drez

Re discussion a while back about 009 and HD800, I have limited listening with the 009 (and not in my system), but with most things being equal it is on another level above the HD800 in terms of resolution - the impression I came away with is that my HD800's sounded like they were mumbling a little bit, but HD800's do present a larger soundstage, if more diffuse.  The 009's had a sort of density to the tone while HD800's were comparatively lacking.  This is of course not 100% fair comparison as the HD800's were powered by the inbuilt amp in the Invicta DAC, which to my ears lacked a little bit of refinement in the lower treble compared against my home rig (009's were powered by a Parasound power amp and the woo audio energiser).  If I could afford a 009 rig I probably would own one by now.
   
  Thing is though that the HD800's aren't _substantially_ less transparent, and I doubt they would be much of a bottleneck in many systems.  If I had $10,000 to spend and still had an HD800 rig, I would upgrade to the 009 before upgrading any other components purely because they bring the biggest improvement for my ears, at least once the rest of the system is reasonably sorted.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> I think you may be forgetting that my preferences in audio may not be exactly the same as yours. You prefer a sound of maximum detail and resolution regardless of how dry it might sound, but I do not. The HD800 still retains its soundstage, layering abilities and much of its detail retrieval even with the Lyr. All of the "faults" of the Lyr that you listed are the reasons I like it. I like the slower sound of the Lyr with the HD800. It makes the mids wetter and the bass fatter. It brings it a little closer to the sound of my HE-500 which, in my opinion, is a better headphone (albeit with its own weaknesses). You can tell me that the Lyr sucks with the HD800 until you're blue in the face, but it's not going to make me want to go out and buy a GS-X. I did not like the clinical and dry sound of the GS-X. That said, I would like to hear the HD800 with the WA2.


 
  Actually while retaining its sound stage, its a fuzzy fog with the Lyr. The GS-X gives it better and more precise imaging. Based on your description of what you like (wetter = muddier to my ears and wilth poor fidelity to the source material) mayaybe the HD800s aren't the headphones for you? The HE-500s are most certainly not better headphones and your Lyr and DAC are most likely the culprits. Again, my comments stand about the Lyr after owning it for a full year. 
   
  The GS-X is far from clinical and dry, its a window into the source material and your DAC. So what you were likely hearing was the source material or the DAC. Might I ask you where and under what conditions you heard the pairing (along with other gear)? I find that the HD800s are very dynamic with great bass kick (like I've never heard them have) with the GS-X. So much so, I have completely stopped worrying about any dynamic amp upgrades....period.


----------



## RedBull

I listened to SR-009 + Cary 300SEI + Resolution Cantata cd player + Woo WES transformer.

THAT speed, effortlesness, detail, tone is STUNNING! Beyond my imagination. This is the first time I heard SR-009 THIS good! I am amazed on how the vocal can play alongside a
Other instruments without getting confused at all.
I didn't like it with Stax owned amp though.
I hate you MacedonianHero!! 
Now I am in trouble ........


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





redbull said:


> I listened to SR-009 + Cary 300SEI + Resolution Cantata cd player + Woo WES transformer.
> 
> THAT speed, effortlesness, detail, tone is STUNNING! This is the first time I heard SR-009 THIS good! I didn't like it with Stax owned amp though.
> I hate you MacedonianHero!!
> ...


----------



## James-uk

Would everyone please stop telling me how good the 009s are I can't spend anymore money!!!! The search for perfection is gonna be the end if me and my marriage!! Seriously though how much better can they be I can't imagine getting anymore anything from ANY transducer that I'm currently experiencing with the hd800.


----------



## James-uk

MacedonianHero can you put a figure on the difference? Is it 1% /10% etc better than HD800? I know it's hard to quantify because I can't really quantify a difference between the 800s and 650s for example but I would probably say roughly 10% IMO .


----------



## Stalker81598

macedonianhero said:


> Actually while retaining its sound stage, its a fuzzy fog with the Lyr. The GS-X gives it better and more precise imaging. Based on your description of what you like (wetter = muddier to my ears and wilth poor fidelity to the source material) mayaybe the HD800s aren't the headphones for you? The HE-500s are most certainly not better headphones and your Lyr and DAC are most likely the culprits. Again, my comments stand about the Lyr after owning it for a full year.
> 
> The GS-X is far from clinical and dry, its a window into the source material and your DAC. So what you were likely hearing was the source material or the DAC. Might I ask you where and under what conditions you heard the pairing (along with other gear)? I find that the HD800s are very dynamic with great bass kick (like I've never heard them have) with the GS-X. So much so, I have completely stopped worrying about any dynamic amp upgrades....period.




Since you obviously believe that anyone with an opinion that differs from your own is just plain wrong, we'll have to agree to disagree.


----------



## songmic

I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse, but in my neighborhood, within 10-minute's distance from my house on foot, lies the headquarter of HiFiClub, the largest and most well-known hi-fi audio club in South Korea. It has several large listening rooms, which are equipped with multi-million dollar loudspeaker systems (including Goldmund, dCS, McIntosh, MBL, Mark Levinson, Gryphon, etc.), with a collection of  tens of thousands of albums. One could make a reservation before auditioning these systems, but since there are only a few people at a time who come to listen to any of these systems, I can just go there anytime and listen to virtually anything I want to for free (they even serve free snacks and drinks to customers who just come to listen); and if I make a reservation in advance, they set up the system exactly the way I ask them to and have it burned-in and ready for the best performance. Since HiFiClub is so close to where I live, I honestly don't feel the need to set up an expensive loudspeaker system in my house; I can take a stroll there anytime I want to.
   
  Although HiFiClub is mostly loudspeaker-oriented, it does have its collection of high-end headphones, including a Sennheiser Orpheus HE-90/HEV-90 system, SR-009, SR-Omega and several other Stax headphones, which are driven by WES or BHSE, which in turn can be hooked into any source gear, such as the $100K dCS Scarlatti stack. There is of course the HD800 too, along with other headphones, which are driven by several top-tier amps as well. For the past couple of years, I stopped by HiFiClub every now and then to listen to these, and come back home and compare my system against theirs, only to remind myself how inferior my system sounds compared to HiFiClub's. This is what gave me the perpetual upgraditis to upgrade, upgrade, and upgrade... to improve the performance of my system closer to the reference sound I hear at HiFiClub.
   
  Compared to the dCS Scarlatti/HEV-90/HE-90, BHSE/SR-009 or WES/SR-009 I've been hearing for the past 2-3 years, I think my HD800 system is about 90% there. Sure, my Octave DAC is priced nearly 1/100 of the Scarlatti, my maxed out ZDSE/HD800 is priced less than half of a maxed out WES/SR-009 or BHSE/SR-009.... but thanks to the law of diminishing returns, it's not necessarily 50% bad. Of course, trying to fill that 10% is the journey that lies ahead of me, the journey that will continue to torture my wallet until I settle down, compromise with what I have.
   
  And so my journey goes on....


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> Since you obviously believe that anyone with an opinion that differs from your own is just plain wrong, we'll have to agree to disagree.


 
  I don't believe that in anyway. I did ask a few simple questions in terms of where did you hear the GS-X MKII (I believe you said an audio store and I know Justin sells direct only here in North America), what was the DAC and source used. Just trying to gain some information to see if I can get a background to your experiences that might help others.
   
  As mentioned all I was doing was sharing my first hand experiences after owning both amps and having them in my possession for over a year each.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





songmic said:


> I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse, but in my neighborhood, within 10-minute's distance from my house on foot, lies the headquarter of HiFiClub, the largest and most well-known hi-fi audio club in South Korea. It has several large listening rooms, which are equipped with multi-million dollar loudspeaker systems (including Goldmund, dCS, McIntosh, MBL, Mark Levinson, Gryphon, etc.), with a collection of  tens of thousands of albums. One could make a reservation before auditioning these systems, but since there are only a few people at a time who come to listen to any of these systems, I can just go there anytime and listen to virtually anything I want to for free (they even serve free snacks and drinks to customers who just come to listen); and if I make a reservation in advance, they set up the system exactly the way I ask them to and have it burned-in and ready for the best performance. Since HiFiClub is so close to where I live, I honestly don't feel the need to set up an expensive loudspeaker system in my house; I can take a stroll there anytime I want to.
> 
> Although HiFiClub is mostly loudspeaker-oriented, it does have its collection of high-end headphones, including a Sennheiser Orpheus HE-90/HEV-90 system, SR-009, SR-Omega and several other Stax headphones, which are driven by WES or BHSE, which in turn can be hooked into any source gear, such as the $100K dCS Scarlatti stack. There is of course the HD800 too, along with other headphones, which are driven by several top-tier amps as well. For the past couple of years, I stopped by HiFiClub every now and then to listen to these, and come back home and compare my system against theirs, only to remind myself how inferior my system sounds compared to HiFiClub's. This is what gave me the perpetual upgraditis to upgrade, upgrade, and upgrade... to improve the performance of my system closer to the reference sound I hear at HiFiClub.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Oh man I wish there was something like that around here. I would be there very often


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> Oh man I wish there was something like that around here. I would be there very often


 
   
  If something was like that in your neighborhood, you would wind up spending much more money to upgrade your stuff, because you'll never be happy with what you have. That's why I called it a blessing or a "curse".


----------



## MickeyVee

Thanks much. I think I'll my next step will be the WA7 (saw Frank's review and have been following the WA7 thread) or WA2 (with my Bifrost Uber). Hoping Woo is at TAVES in Toronto this year so I can audition.  


macedonianhero said:


> I haven't heard the WA7 yet, but ears I trust (Frank I) was very happy with the combination...and he mentioned that the DAC included was pretty good. I found the HD800s more coherent with the Valhalla compared to the Lyr. The Lyr as I mentioned was too much brute force for the HD800s and couldn't finesse around complicated pieces of music very well. The Valhalla did a better job to my ears. I wasn't a fan of the Lyr for any headphones except for the LCD-2 and HE-500/6. Notice...all orthos.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## negura

Quote: 





songmic said:


> If something was like that in your neighborhood, you would wind up spending much more money to upgrade your stuff, because you'll never be happy with what you have. That's why I called it a blessing or a "curse".


 
   
  Must be exhilirating to have that option. I'm sure it doesn't compare, but head-fi seems to work for me and against the wallet pretty well... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Still a few months wait time to my backordered SR-009s. Initially I will do a poor man's setup through SET tube amp speaker taps + Wee, before I can afford more.
  Out of curiosity did you prefer the HE90s to SR-009s both top amped?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





songmic said:


> I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse, but in my neighborhood, within 10-minute's distance from my house on foot, lies the headquarter of HiFiClub, the largest and most well-known hi-fi audio club in South Korea. It has several large listening rooms, which are equipped with multi-million dollar loudspeaker systems (including Goldmund, dCS, McIntosh, MBL, Mark Levinson, Gryphon, etc.), with a collection of  tens of thousands of albums. One could make a reservation before auditioning these systems, but since there are only a few people at a time who come to listen to any of these systems, I can just go there anytime and listen to virtually anything I want to for free (they even serve free snacks and drinks to customers who just come to listen); and if I make a reservation in advance, they set up the system exactly the way I ask them to and have it burned-in and ready for the best performance. Since HiFiClub is so close to where I live, I honestly don't feel the need to set up an expensive loudspeaker system in my house; I can take a stroll there anytime I want to.
> 
> Although HiFiClub is mostly loudspeaker-oriented, it does have its collection of high-end headphones, including a Sennheiser Orpheus HE-90/HEV-90 system, SR-009, SR-Omega and several other Stax headphones, which are driven by WES or BHSE, which in turn can be hooked into any source gear, such as the $100K dCS Scarlatti stack. There is of course the HD800 too, along with other headphones, which are driven by several top-tier amps as well. For the past couple of years, I stopped by HiFiClub every now and then to listen to these, and come back home and compare my system against theirs, only to remind myself how inferior my system sounds compared to HiFiClub's. This is what gave me the perpetual upgraditis to upgrade, upgrade, and upgrade... to improve the performance of my system closer to the reference sound I hear at HiFiClub.
> 
> ...


 
  What a great resource songmic! Thanks for sharing your experiences. I have only read about most of that gear. How fortunate to have them all so close to enjoy and audition.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





songmic said:


> If something was like that in your neighborhood, you would wind up spending much more money to upgrade your stuff, because you'll never be happy with what you have. That's why I called it a blessing or a "curse".


 
  I wouldn't say that. I'm quite content where I am right now. I have 2 very good (imo at least) rigs with a HD800 and a O2. I'm not going anywhere with those 2 rigs anytime soon. It would be very nice to have someplace where I can try that kind of gear in a convenient location. The only place is meets for me and that depends on what people bring.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Wow tons of posts here since i last checked. 

Yeah wa2 is very good with hd 800 especially if you dont mind sacrificing a bit of transparency for its silky smooth sound (the gec tubes help increase that transparency and detail, lesser tubes can come across as veiled with hd 800). 

I have still yet to try the wa22 but im very happy with wa2's performance with the hd 800

Im not quite at endgame sound, but im not too far off. As far as sr-009 vs hd 800. The stax are clearly a step ahead but i think considering the price difference, hd 800 gets pretty close for those who dont feel like spending 7-10k on a stax setup

I dont see why people like BCL with hd 800 though, i think its an overrated and overpriced amp. Its not bad but its not that great either. Kinda bland and lifeless sounding.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





songmic said:


> I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse, but in my neighborhood, within 10-minute's distance from my house on foot, lies the headquarter of HiFiClub, the largest and most well-known hi-fi audio club in South Korea. It has several large listening rooms, which are equipped with multi-million dollar loudspeaker systems (including Goldmund, dCS, McIntosh, MBL, Mark Levinson, Gryphon, etc.), with a collection of  tens of thousands of albums. One could make a reservation before auditioning these systems, but since there are only a few people at a time who come to listen to any of these systems, I can just go there anytime and listen to virtually anything I want to for free (they even serve free snacks and drinks to customers who just come to listen); and if I make a reservation in advance, they set up the system exactly the way I ask them to and have it burned-in and ready for the best performance. Since HiFiClub is so close to where I live, I honestly don't feel the need to set up an expensive loudspeaker system in my house; I can take a stroll there anytime I want to.
> 
> Although HiFiClub is mostly loudspeaker-oriented, it does have its collection of high-end headphones, including a Sennheiser Orpheus HE-90/HEV-90 system, SR-009, SR-Omega and several other Stax headphones, which are driven by WES or BHSE, which in turn can be hooked into any source gear, such as the $100K dCS Scarlatti stack. There is of course the HD800 too, along with other headphones, which are driven by several top-tier amps as well. For the past couple of years, I stopped by HiFiClub every now and then to listen to these, and come back home and compare my system against theirs, only to remind myself how inferior my system sounds compared to HiFiClub's. This is what gave me the perpetual upgraditis to upgrade, upgrade, and upgrade... to improve the performance of my system closer to the reference sound I hear at HiFiClub.
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's good stuff.


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





james-uk said:


> Would everyone please stop telling me how good the 009s are I can't spend anymore money!!!! The search for perfection is gonna be the end if me and my marriage!! Seriously though how much better can they be I can't imagine getting anymore anything from ANY transducer that I'm currently experiencing with the hd800.


 
   
  No, don't worry, SR-009 does not completely trounce HD800 systems.  I can always note about 009 that I prefer HD800.
  1. Smaller soundstage, as expected.  Like it or not.
  2. Direct sound vs diffused sound (HD800), also some people will prefer one over the other.  I find it equally good depending on mood.  Diffuse sound can be very addictive too.
  3. There's this thing called Stax 'fart', means, because the membrane is so thin, it forms a 'vacuum' when you move your position around. 
  It created crumpled plastic sound. I think because the driver get sucked out by the vacuum created.  Big problem for some, some doesn't mind.
  4. 009 has definitely more treble energy, one thing that contribute to more detail, but also additional natural detail in the mids and bass area.
  5. Of course, like all stats, Dynamic bass is always stronger and more kick.  Your preference!  I don't mind 009 bass though, driven with speaker amp + transformer in this case.  Never heard it through BHSE, so I don't know which one has more bass quantity.
  6. EXPENSIVE!!
   
  The rest, goes to 009.
   
  I find 009 sound style closer to Audeze (although MMMUUCCCH better), than to HD800.  HD800 sound is a bit different than the rest of dynamics.
  Hope you are one of those that doesn't like the above 'weaknesses', so you feel better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## kensonic

@songmic,

Thanks for your honest opinion !
The Allnic HPA 5000 is hard to find 
Beside the HD800, did you manage to listen this amp. also with low impedance HP's like LCD2/3 or HE6 ?

I would really love to hear an Allnic - might be also a candidat for an end-game...


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> As someone who likes a balance in the FR and not-so-lean-but-not-so-loose bass/mids, the Lyr was way too wet for my ears, losing detail and realism, and the HD800 still sounded a bit too lean with the Mjolnir. I kept yearning for a bit more bass extension and presence.


 
   
  Quote: 





darken23 said:


> I don't think anyone had said the mjolnir is bass-light, I do not feel its lean in the bass region at all. Comparing it to the lyr, the mjolnir's bass is far better controlled, tight, cleaner with excellent speed.
> It could just be the hd800 and the mjolnir's pairing.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> I haven't heard the Mjolnir but from the overwhelming negative accounts of its pairing with the HD800, I'm a bit turned off to trying it. Also, I don't have a balanced cable for my HD800.
> I don't think the HD800 is nitpicky, but it is very transparent and tends to take on the characteristics of the gear it is connected to. I think what you said about the Mjolnir having a very quick and tight sound is why many say the two don't pair well. The HD800 is already quick and tight so using an amp with the same attributes can make it sound a bit thin. As I said, I haven't heard the Mjolnir so I'm just speculating.
> 
> 
> I couldn't possibly agree more. I like having some detail but I'm not concerned with squeezing maximum resolution out of my headphones. To me, that just makes them less enjoyable, especially since most modern music isn't recorded that well. In my experience, I've found the HD800 benefits greatly from gear that can imbue a bit of warmth and character into it, and the Lyr fits the bill for me. I find myself enjoying my music far more with the Lyr than I have with any other amp I've heard the HD800 with, even if it isn't the maximum high-fidelity experience that some strive for.


 
  More to come later but...I'm liking the MJ more and more with the HD800 now that it's hit 100+ hours of burn in. I couldn't stand it the first few days, but now...obviously my DP-1's sweetness is helping. More to come...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## RedBull

That's called temptation, songmic


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Actually while retaining its sound stage, its a fuzzy fog with the Lyr. The GS-X gives it better and more precise imaging. Based on your description of what you like (wetter = muddier to my ears and wilth poor fidelity to the source material) mayaybe the HD800s aren't the headphones for you? The HE-500s are most certainly not better headphones and your Lyr and DAC are most likely the culprits. Again, my comments stand about the Lyr after owning it for a full year.
> 
> The GS-X is far from clinical and dry, its a window into the source material and your DAC. So what you were likely hearing was the source material or the DAC. Might I ask you where and under what conditions you heard the pairing (along with other gear)? I find that the HD800s are very dynamic with great bass kick (like I've never heard them have) with the GS-X. So much so, I have completely stopped worrying about any dynamic amp upgrades....period.


 
   
  You describe it as though the HD800 sounds like a bowl of mud with the Lyr. That is very far from the truth and misleading to anyone who might be considering the Lyr. Why not describe it for what it is instead of overstating its weaknesses because you don't personally like it? I've already agreed that it is not the last word in detail and resolution, but that doesn't mean it is as bad as you are making it seem and it certainly doesn't suck all the detail out of the HD800.
   
  You describe your GS-X as a "window into the source material". As I said in a previous post, I'm not looking for a "window", I'm looking for something that will overlay a bit of its own character on the HD800. The Lyr does that wonderfully if you are looking for a more musical sound rather than a super crisp and clear sound. The HD800 is still a world ahead of my HE-500 in detail, transparency, soundstage and imaging, even with the Lyr.
   
  Also your comment that "the HE-500s are most certainly not better headphones": Don't you think that's more a matter of opinion than of fact? I most certainly do think the HE-500 is a better headphone. It's not as detailed or resolving as the HD800, but not everybody thinks that is what makes a headphone better. The HE-500 has a far more rich and smooth sound than the HD800 and that, in my opinion, makes it a better headphone. I still love the HD800 very much, just not as much as the HE-500. I don't have to be exclusive to one headphone. My headphones and I have a polygamous relationship.
   
  I've already said the GS-X is a very good amp, but only if you are looking for that crisp, clear, scientific sound that doesn't really color the music at all. I love the HD800 for its strengths: imaging, detail and layering... but only with an amp like the Lyr. To my ears, it makes the HD800 much more fun to listen to. You are going to say "yea but if you get a better dac..." I understand that the GS-X is a "clear window" into my DAC but why would I drop that much money on an amp I heard and don't like, and then drop even more on a DAC to try and maybe get the sound I already have and love with my Lyr? You love the detail and transparency of the GS-X, I love the rich and smooth sound of the Lyr. So like I said, we should agree to disagree. We'll both enjoy our HD800s, just in different ways.
   
  I tried the GS-X at an audio store here in Portland. Not sure if it was new or used, but it looked new. I didn't drag my DAC there with me so I plugged my iPhone directly into the amp. 
   
  I'd be interested to hear your rig with my HD800, but somehow I doubt I'd have any revelations or suddenly begin enjoying super ultra mega detail and relatively dry mids 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Yeah wa2 is very good with hd 800 especially if you dont mind sacrificing a bit of transparency for* its silky smooth sound* (the gec tubes help increase that transparency and detail, lesser tubes can come across as veiled with hd 800).


 
   
  This is exactly why I'm so interested in the WA2. Now it's just a matter of saving up the funds. Any recommendations on which, if any, of the tube upgrades on the product page are worth it?


----------



## BournePerfect

Well Stalker-the HD800 is a chameleon of sorts-it WILL scale SIGNIFICANTLY higher than, well, every other current production dynamic. It's technically better to boot. Not to knock your HD800/Lyr love in the slightest-but bottom line is you haven't (who has really?) heard the HD800 at it's 'ceiling' yet. And yes-your dac probably was the limiting factor when you heard the GSX. Don't get me wrong-the HD800 can sound very good from cheaper amps (m-Stage imo)-but even that 'very good' sound turned into 'astounding sound' through my ZDSE. Glad you're loving the budget combo you have now-just remember that those Senns have _much, much more_ to offer if/when you decide to take them there...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## RedBull

Stalker, IMO, like was mentioned, because Lyr is designed for Orthos, it sound great with HE-500.
In my case. HD800 sounds dryier from BCL, but when I use Leben, it's a different headphone. It's just have good vocal weight, bass, gone all those 'grainyness', lower treble glare.
I think WA2 sound signature and circuit will benefit more to 800, and this time, may not sound exciting for the 500.
WA7 too, from description and design, may be more suitable for 800 than HE500.


----------



## fhuang

Quote: 





songmic said:


> I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse, but in my neighborhood, within 10-minute's distance from my house on foot, lies the headquarter of HiFiClub, the largest and most well-known hi-fi audio club in South Korea. It has several large listening rooms, which are equipped with multi-million dollar loudspeaker systems (including Goldmund, dCS, McIntosh, MBL, Mark Levinson, Gryphon, etc.), with a collection of  tens of thousands of albums. One could make a reservation before auditioning these systems, but since there are only a few people at a time who come to listen to any of these systems, I can just go there anytime and listen to virtually anything I want to for free (they even serve free snacks and drinks to customers who just come to listen); and if I make a reservation in advance, they set up the system exactly the way I ask them to and have it burned-in and ready for the best performance. Since HiFiClub is so close to where I live, I honestly don't feel the need to set up an expensive loudspeaker system in my house; I can take a stroll there anytime I want to.
> 
> Although HiFiClub is mostly loudspeaker-oriented, it does have its collection of high-end headphones, including a Sennheiser Orpheus HE-90/HEV-90 system, SR-009, SR-Omega and several other Stax headphones, which are driven by WES or BHSE, which in turn can be hooked into any source gear, such as the $100K dCS Scarlatti stack. There is of course the HD800 too, along with other headphones, which are driven by several top-tier amps as well. For the past couple of years, I stopped by HiFiClub every now and then to listen to these, and come back home and compare my system against theirs, only to remind myself how inferior my system sounds compared to HiFiClub's. This is what gave me the perpetual upgraditis to upgrade, upgrade, and upgrade... to improve the performance of my system closer to the reference sound I hear at HiFiClub.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  i thought living in hong kong it's good.... i can listen to those expensive speaker system but they're not in one shop/place.
   
  it's a shame i've never been to seoul(or korea).  i love korean food so much, and soju
   
   
  back to the topic, can you try listen to hd800 with those good/expensive source, dac and/or cd player?  just wonder the limit of an hd800


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Well Stalker-the HD800 is a chameleon of sorts-it WILL scale SIGNIFICANTLY higher than, well, every other current production dynamic. It's technically better to boot. Not to knock your HD800/Lyr love in the slightest-but bottom line is you haven't (who has really?) heard the HD800 at it's 'ceiling' yet. And yes-your dac probably was the limiting factor when you heard the GSX. Don't get me wrong-the HD800 can sound very good from cheaper amps (m-Stage imo)-but even that 'very good' sound turned into 'astounding sound' through my ZDSE. Glad you're loving the budget combo you have now-just remember that those Senns have _much, much more_ to offer if/when you decide to take them there...
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  Understood. I'm not trying to say the Lyr is the end-all for the HD800 because I know that isn't the case. I was talking more about its signature than the amp itself. For this reason, I'm shooting for the WA2.


----------



## BournePerfect

Yes I realize you were talking about preferred synergy more than anything. That Woo will be a whole step up with the HD800s, that's for sure. It's a gorgeous amp-I always wanted one for looks alone-same with most Woo gear lol.
   
   
  -Daniel


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> I tried the GS-X at an audio store here in Portland. Not sure if it was new or used, but it looked new. *I didn't drag my DAC there with me so I plugged my iPhone directly into the amp*.


 
   
  Bingo...  This is what MH was looking for.. At least before giving any positive / negitive impressions give "any" amp a fair shot.  Like with the same DAC you use at home.
   
  Just saying..


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> It's a gorgeous amp-I always wanted one for looks alone-same with most Woo gear lol.
> 
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  I feel this way about the WA22 as well.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Bingo...  This is what MH was looking for.. At least before giving any positive / negitive impressions give "any" amp a fair shot.  Like with the same DAC you use at home.
> 
> Just saying..


 
   
  Lol...
   
  I think you're still missing my point entirely.
   
  When I listen to my Lyr, regardless of whether it's plugged into my DAC or a phone, still gives the HD800 an overall smoother sound.
  GS-X did not, therefore I prefer the Lyr.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I feel this way about the WA22 as well.


 
  What is this-a pissing contest????
   
   
   




   
   
   
  j/k
   
  -Daniel


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> What is this-a pissing contest????
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> Lol...
> 
> I think you're still missing my point entirely.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think the GS-X mk2 is able to give you that sound as well - depending on the / DAC.  I'm guessing here.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Lol both wa22 and zdse are on my "to buy" list. 

Though the wa2 will be kept if possible. Its a really nice amp


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I think the GS-X mk2 is able to give you that sound as well - depending on the / DAC.  I'm guessing here.


 
   
  This looks intriguing. Unfortunately probably not in the budget right now. I'm still recovering financially from a recent move. Open to suggestions though.


----------



## RedBull

DG, did you have a chance to listen to Darkvoice 337 amp?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Nop


----------



## FlySweep

Has anyone heard both the GS-X MKII & Super7 w/ the HD800 (and a decent DAC) ?  I'd love to hear some impressions on how they compare.  Yes.. I know.. ss vs tube (hey, they all sound the same though, right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).. but let's set all that aside.
   
  On sound and technical ability.. which one did you like and why?


----------



## DarKen23

songmic said:


> I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse, but in my neighborhood, within 10-minute's distance from my house on foot, lies the headquarter of HiFiClub, the largest and most well-known hi-fi audio club in South Korea. It has several large listening rooms, which are equipped with multi-million dollar loudspeaker systems (including Goldmund, dCS, McIntosh, MBL, Mark Levinson, Gryphon, etc.), with a collection of  tens of thousands of albums. One could make a reservation before auditioning these systems, but since there are only a few people at a time who come to listen to any of these systems, I can just go there anytime and listen to virtually anything I want to for free (they even serve free snacks and drinks to customers who just come to listen); and if I make a reservation in advance, they set up the system exactly the way I ask them to and have it burned-in and ready for the best performance. Since HiFiClub is so close to where I live, I honestly don't feel the need to set up an expensive loudspeaker system in my house; I can take a stroll there anytime I want to.
> 
> Although HiFiClub is mostly loudspeaker-oriented, it does have its collection of high-end headphones, including a Sennheiser Orpheus HE-90/HEV-90 system, SR-009, SR-Omega and several other Stax headphones, which are driven by WES or BHSE, which in turn can be hooked into any source gear, such as the $100K dCS Scarlatti stack. There is of course the HD800 too, along with other headphones, which are driven by several top-tier amps as well. For the past couple of years, I stopped by HiFiClub every now and then to listen to these, and come back home and compare my system against theirs, only to remind myself how inferior my system sounds compared to HiFiClub's. This is what gave me the perpetual upgraditis to upgrade, upgrade, and upgrade... to improve the performance of my system closer to the reference sound I hear at HiFiClub.
> 
> ...



Is this club in Seoul? I must have a visit myself! Ive already purchased my round trip ticket last month set for November. Ill be staying in busan for the most of my viisit but Im going to seoul to visit a relative for at least a week, this would make the seoul trip total enjoyable as I did not look forward to spending a week with my uncle whos drinking soju 24/7, not exaggerating either, he literally has one of these on his way to work lol


----------



## Maxvla

flysweep said:


> Has anyone heard both the GS-X MKII & Super7 w/ the HD800 (and a decent DAC) ?  I'd love to hear some impressions on how they compare.  Yes.. I know.. ss vs tube (hey, they all sound the same though, right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Under meet conditions and with different DACs but the GS-X II cleaned house top to bottom.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Under meet conditions and with different DACs but the GS-X II cleaned house top to bottom.


 
  I'd hope so at twice the price...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *Maxvla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Under meet conditions and with different DACs but the GS-X II cleaned house top to bottom.


 
   
  That's, simultaneously, what I wanted to.. and not wanted to.. hear.  LOL.
   
  I'm totally happy with the Vio stack & BH Crack.. but I'm ohhhh.. sooo... tempted... to sell it all and put it towards the MKII.  I've been intrigued by it since it was released.. and the attraction is growing uncomfortably strong.


----------



## Maxvla

bourneperfect said:


> I'd hope so at twice the price...
> 
> -Daniel



$1830 vs $2780. My math is rusty but I think that's not double.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> $1830 vs $2780. My math is rusty but I think that's not double.


 
  GSX w/ DACT is 3K. S7 was $1500 for initial runs-forgot it went up. Either way-clearly different price brackets...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## FlySweep

Maxvla.. at ~$1700.. is there another amp that you found to be better (or more to your liking) than the S7 ?  Speaker amps (with the HD800 driven off the taps or via a resistor box), included.


----------



## Maxvla

bourneperfect said:


> GSX w/ DACT is 3K. S7 was $1500 for initial runs-forgot it went up. Either way-clearly different price brackets...
> 
> -Daniel



Different brackets, sure, but lets not get away from reality. As far as the GS-X, I would prefer the pot over the DACT even if the prices were reversed. Quoting it with the highest options isn't being honest. Craig will supe up any amp he sells for more price. A 'totl' S7 could easily tally in the range of a GS-X.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Different brackets, sure, but lets not get away from reality. As far as the GS-X, I would prefer the pot over the DACT even if the prices were reversed._ Quoting it with the highest options isn't being honest._ *Craig will supe up any amp he sells for more price*. A 'totl' S7 could easily tally in the range of a GS-X.


 
   
_But you said..._*2-way street here.*
   
  Craig hardly 'supes up' prices-far from it. Same with Justin. It's a wash, stop grasping at straws. EC is known for being a very good value per performance-I'd imagine Headamp is similar.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Maxvla

flysweep said:


> Maxvla.. at ~$1700.. is there another amp that you found to be better (or more to your liking) than the S7 ?  Speaker amps (with the HD800 driven off the taps or via a resistor box), included.



I found it to be good but not particularly noteworthy. There is then the issue of tube rolling, which I loathe, so who knows what its potential could be. It is a solid choice, nothing wrong with it.

As far as other amps, after deciding on the GS-X I've been out of the loop and not caring much about other gear. I'm set only pieces and am unlikely to change anything ever again. I preferred my BHA-1 to the S7 but it was only minor preferences, and most people would oppose me on that position.


----------



## Maxvla

bourneperfect said:


> _But you said..._*2-way street here.*
> 
> Craig hardly 'supes up' prices-far from it. Same with Justin. It's a wash, stop grasping at straws. EC is known for being a very good value per performance-I'd imagine Headamp is similar.
> 
> -Daniel



I was just showing you how quickly quoting highly optioned gear can distort pricing. And no I wasn't saying Craig boosts prices just because. I know he doesn't. He, however, is far more open to modifications and custom builds than almost all other amp builders out there. If you want high end parts in your S7 he will do it, but you'd be paying at least double the original price on the S7 page. Even with all this custom work he doesn't really charge any extra for the hassle. It is a great bargain.

Headamp by comparison, since you brought it up, has only one option available that costs money. Justin works with quantity that demands few variations. You choose your volume adjuster and color and that's it.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> I was just showing you how quickly quoting highly optioned gear can distort pricing. And no I wasn't saying Craig boosts prices just because. I know he doesn't. He, however, is far more open to modifications and custom builds than almost all other amp builders out there. If you want high end parts in your S7 he will do it, but you'd be paying at least double the original price on the S7 page. Even with all this custom work he doesn't really charge any extra for the hassle. It is a great bargain.
> 
> Headamp by comparison, since you brought it up, has only one option available that costs money. Justin works with quantity that demands few variations. You choose your volume adjuster and color and that's it.


 
   
  Well I'd still wager 95%+ of Craig's sales are stock. His 'options' are _identical' _to Justin's btw-volume pot and possibly a different top plate (ZDSE, 2A3). Justin now offers different anodized faceplates I hear.
   
  Anyway, not trying to bicker here-I still plan on getting a GSX after my Leviathan...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Maxvla

Actually, Craig will let you customize any part of his amps if you ask. Justin doesn't and can't do that due to how his process works.

Anyhow I quoted the lowest price for both amps, you then quoted an out of date entry price for the S7 without tubes, and then the highest optioned GS-X. Biased just a little?


----------



## skeptic




----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Actually, Craig will let you customize any part of his amps if you ask. Justin doesn't and can't do that due to how his process works.
> 
> Anyhow I quoted the lowest price for both amps, you then quoted an out of date entry price for the S7 without tubes, and then the highest optioned GS-X.* Biased just a little*?


 
   
*Again, 2 way street. Leave it alone.*
   
  -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





skeptic said:


>


 
  x10


----------



## Maxvla

bourneperfect said:


> *Again, 2 way street. Leave it alone.*
> 
> -Daniel



So far I've only seen it one way. Try to end the conversation with your desired spin if you want, but anyone reading will see for themselves.


----------



## BournePerfect

*yawns*


----------



## zigy626

Since this is an appreciation thread for the HD800 I would just like to put this in writing. Yesterday while listening to a particular big band jazz piece I experienced a sensation one could only feel at a live event. It was like I was there, it was very exhilarating, be it only lasted for a short moment. I promise I was sober 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Having owned many many many speaker type setups even a 5.1 channel system over 20 years I never experienced that emotion. The only time I felt that kind of exciting/exhilarating moment was when I attended a live classical concert at my University. Maybe I should start going to some live concerts again to get my fix. Now this recording was not hi-def just a normal flac file 16/44. I wonder how much money I would have to spend on a speaker setup in order to get the same feeling of being there? My guess is around $15K-20K easily. My Cyrus and B&W provides a very nice 3D soundstage but it never gave me a feeling of being right at the centre of a concert. So guy's enjoy your HD800's as they are really special I guess I am preaching to the choir.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> You describe it as though the HD800 sounds like a bowl of mud with the Lyr. That is very far from the truth and misleading to anyone who might be considering the Lyr. Why not describe it for what it is instead of overstating its weaknesses because you don't personally like it? I've already agreed that it is not the last word in detail and resolution, but that doesn't mean it is as bad as you are making it seem and it certainly doesn't suck all the detail out of the HD800.
> 
> You describe your GS-X as a "window into the source material". As I said in a previous post, I'm not looking for a "window", I'm looking for something that will overlay a bit of its own character on the HD800. The Lyr does that wonderfully if you are looking for a more musical sound rather than a super crisp and clear sound. The HD800 is still a world ahead of my HE-500 in detail, transparency, soundstage and imaging, even with the Lyr.
> 
> ...


 
  The issue with the GS-X MKII is if you don't like your source, you won't like the amp. That's what you get with a truly transparent amp. BTW, you never did mention what audio store in Portland or the DAC? Still waiting....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  With the Lyr, all I hear is a smear across the entire spectrum that it was completely unacceptable. It is like using a screwdriver to hammer in a nail. Wrong tool for the job my friend. It's an ortho amp and really only does good job with headphones like the HE-500s, HE-6s, or LCD-2s. Funny, it was a horrible amp for the LCD-3s...talk about dry and boring.
   
Again, my impressions are after owning BOTH amps for more than a year with some really good DACs and source material (Cary XCiter DAC and W4S DAC-2).


----------



## BournePerfect

I've never seen so many poor, dead horses in one thread lol.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I've never seen so many poor, dead horses in one thread lol.
> 
> -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect




----------



## Girls Generation

He did say what source he used with the GSX. 


> I didn't drag my DAC there with me so I plugged my iPhone directly into the amp.


 
   
  Ah. Stalker, what MH is getting at here is that you handicapped the GSX with your source and judged it as if it was fair, then opined it on here as a matter of fact. It's clearly an unfair impression which will skew views of the GSX. Your conclusion of the GSX was clearly unacceptable and you demonstrated that by telling us that you used the iPhone as the source directly into the amp. This is undeniable.
   
  However, MH, you're misunderstanding is that Stalker has his sonic preference, which may seem contradictory to owning the HD800, and, yes, it's much different from the norm among HD800 owners. You are not wrong that the Lyr smears up the HD800, but then again, this may be what Stalker prefers. Further, Stalker has presumably not heard the HD800 at even close to its true potential, so it just may be that his ears have not been spoiled yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We all need a reference point to form an objective observation.
   
   
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> The issue with the GS-X MKII is if you don't like your source, you won't like the amp. That's what you get with a truly transparent amp. BTW, you never did mention what audio store in Portland or the DAC? Still waiting....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## BournePerfect

Ready...
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  Set...
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   





!
   
  -Daniel


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> He did say what source he used with the GSX.
> 
> Ah. Stalker, what MH is getting at here is that you handicapped the GSX with your source and judged it as if it was fair, then opined it on here as a matter of fact. It's clearly an unfair impression which will skew views of the GSX. Your conclusion of the GSX was clearly unacceptable and you demonstrated that by telling us that you used the iPhone as the source directly into the amp. This is undeniable.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I can't comprehend owning a Ferrari and driving it with a Chevy engine and saying it's exactly what I was looking for?


----------



## scottiebabie

my new HD800 engine......
   

   

   

   

   
  initial 1st hours impression is....exquisite, imtimate & very extended up top but without being harsh. doesnt slam like the simple EL84 amp but definitely more refined. EL84's kinda like HiFi while 300bs like audiophile Fi. not so good for pop esp badly recorded pop but great for Jazz & vocal based music.
   
  early days yet.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> This is exactly why I'm so interested in the WA2. Now it's just a matter of saving up the funds. Any recommendations on which, if any, of the tube upgrades on the product page are worth it?


 
   
  the Tung Sol 7236 are pretty nice if you can't find tung sol 5998, these tubes are kinda hard to find, so this wouldn't be a bad buy. 
  the best by far for the HD 800 though are the GEC 6AS7G, most transparent, sweet beautiful tube sound (Even better than 5998 which is already quite impressive), great textured tight bass, and very detailed treble and mids, lots of air. it can be a little bright at first, but after the tubes are fully warmed up, they sound amazing.
   
  the Westinghouse 6V4 option jack sells is a total ripoff. look for a mullard ez80 or RFT EZ80 (these are easily found for $25 a pair NOS). 
   
  i wouldn't pay 290$ for amperex 7308 either, though i'm sure they're decent tubes.
  amprex 6dj8 bugle boys or some of the nicer amperex tubes are good for HD 800. im sure the siemens tubes are pretty good too. and my old favorite the jan sylvania 7308 is pretty good too, a little darker, but nice.


----------



## scottiebabie

didnt wanna go off topic here as this is a HD800 thread, but i felt i had to say this. i decided to try out the black dragon recabled T1 just for hell of it on the Audio Space 300b & HOLY HOT GLOWING BOTTLES Batman....the T1s sounds fantastic bordering on awesome! 
   
  to my ears, the T1 shares alot of the good "stuff" with the HD800 but loses out (slightly) in soundstage & perhaps detail delineation & i always felt the T1s had a penchant for sibilance even with the SE EL84 amp so much so i enjoyed the senns more. now driven by the Audio Space 300, me thinks the T1 has equaled if not perhaps even supercedes the senns esp with pop, r&b & rock while equaling the senns on jazz and vocals. the T1 slams hard, has great mids, super detailed, wide wide soundstage (perhaps loses out to the senn in depth but i cant be sure) & has crazy extended sparkly airy highs without any sibilance nor harshness. simple amazing & to think i was going to sell the T1.....but instead, i find myself in quite a pickle of having to choose now. T1 owners owe it to themselves to finds a synergistic amp for a shocking experience. imho this 300b amp def suits the T1!
   
  s'cuse the rambling. now back to regularly scheduled programming of Senn-fi....


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> didnt wanna go off topic here as this is a HD800 thread, but i felt i had to say this. i decided to try out the black dragon recabled T1 just for hell of it on the Audio Space 300b & HOLY HOT GLOWING BOTTLES Batman....the T1s sounds fantastic bordering on awesome!
> 
> to my ears, the T1 shares alot of the good "stuff" with the HD800 but loses out (slightly) in soundstage & perhaps detail delineation & i always felt the T1s had a penchant for sibilance even with the SE EL84 amp so much so i enjoyed the senns more. now driven by the Audio Space 300, me thinks the T1 has equaled if not perhaps even supercedes the senns esp with pop, r&b & rock while equaling the senns on jazz and vocals. the T1 slams hard, has great mids, super detailed, wide wide soundstage (perhaps loses out to the senn in depth but i cant be sure) & has crazy extended sparkly airy highs without any sibilance nor harshness. simple amazing & to think i was going to sell the T1.....but instead, i find myself in quite a pickle of having to choose now. T1 owners owe it to themselves to finds a synergistic amp for a shocking experience. imho this 300b amp def suits the T1!
> 
> s'cuse the rambling. now back to regularly scheduled programming of Senn-fi....


 
   
  yes!!!
   




   
  the T1 is very good if you find the amp for it. but yeah back to the HD 800....


----------



## scottiebabie

hahaha yes....the T1s are almost electrostatic like. the highs are incredible - so extended it seems to go on forever, so detailed my mind cant process all the info! its electric like quick as well! i think i mite have a stax killer combo as the highs most reminds me of my Quad ESL experience long ago. crazy how an amp can change something good into something great!


----------



## Jd007

What would you guys say is the best amp in the $1-1.6k range for the HD800? I prefer a warmer sound, and am willing to sacrifice a bit of detail to get more body and thickness to the mids and bass, but soundstage must be remain good. Currently I'm looking at the WA2, WA6SE, CSP2+, Taboo MK III. Source is a Bifrost w/ Uber (single ended). Thanks guys!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

WA2 with the GEC tubes.
   
  no WA6-SE, not as good as WA2. im sure the decware amps are great as well!


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> WA2 with the GEC tubes.
> 
> no WA6-SE, not as good as WA2.


 
  What kind of tubes are those, power/rectifier/driver and how much would the tubes run me extra? also how is the wa2 with stock tubes for the hd800? thanks for the reply!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> What kind of tubes are those, power/rectifier/driver and how much would the tubes run me extra? also how is the wa2 with stock tubes for the hd800? thanks for the reply!


 
   
  power tubes, like maybe $400 a pair. but i think its worth it, they really take the HD 800 to the next level. 
   
  the stock tubes aren't very good. it'll be warm and pretty good but grainy and with some lack of transparency. under $100 in tube upgrades would be a noticeable improvement, but if you can get the GEC tubes or even $200 a pair Tung Sol 5998 would be great. 
   
  im sure the decware amps would be decent as well.


----------



## scottiebabie

IMHO opinion, EL84 6bq5 output tubes seems to do great bass with the HD800. my simple SE EL84 amp slams harder than the 300b i just got. another headfi whom i know has tried a whole buncha amps (including Decware CSP2+ & Taboo combo) is ending his search (for now i guess) with the discovery of the Luxman SQ-N10. and yes, the Luxman is also uses EL84 as output.


----------



## DarKen23

bourneperfect said:


> Ready...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol, haven't had a laugh that good from a thread in awhile. Cheers.

It amazes me by just how thin skinned some folks are regardless of being on the internetz.


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


>


 
   
  Can anyone explain the meaning of this emoticon? I'm not asking a rhetorical question, I really have no idea what to make out of it. A guy listening to headphones beating a dog (or a horse?)... listening to headphones with his head inside a plastic bag? Am I the only one here who doesn't get the punchline (if there is even one)? Yet this emoticon seems to be used by a lot of folks here. Help me out here, Captain Obvious.


----------



## Girls Generation

Beating a dead horse is... continuing to go off about something that leads to nothing, and the point of it has already passed, or something along the lines of that. Basically arguing about cables is beating a dead horse. There is no point. I do this quite often. 
  Quote: 





songmic said:


> Can anyone explain the meaning of this emoticon? I'm not asking a rhetorical question, I really have no idea what to make out of it. A guy listening to headphones beating a dog (or a horse?)... listening to headphones with his head inside a plastic bag? Am I the only one here who doesn't get the punchline (if there is even one)? Yet this emoticon seems to be used by a lot of folks here. Help me out here, Captain Obvious.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Can anyone explain the meaning of this emoticon? I'm not asking a rhetorical question, I really have no idea what to make out of it. A guy listening to headphones beating a dog (or a horse?)... listening to headphones with his head inside a plastic bag? Am I the only one here who doesn't get the punchline (if there is even one)? Yet this emoticon seems to be used by a lot of folks here. Help me out here, Captain Obvious.


 
   
  Beating a dead horse..  Ha ha ha ha..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  http://www.knowyourphrase.com/phrase-meanings/Beating-a-Dead-Horse.html


----------



## Maxvla

There's an additional dimension to it. The headphones worn by the horse are Sennheisers and the bag looking thing is the Sennheiser 'Veil'.


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Beating a dead horse is... continuing to go off about something that leads to nothing, and the point of it has already passed, or something along the lines of that. Basically arguing about cables is beating a dead horse. There is no point. I do this quite often.


 
   
  Oh... I know what beating a dead horse means, but it didn't occur to me that that emoticon was referring to beating a dead horse. I mean, it looks more like a dog than a horse, and it surely doesn't look dead when it's smiling with headphones over its head.


----------



## persona1138

Hey all,
   
  So, my HD800's are almost here, and I decided to go with the Sennheiser HDVD 800 Amp/DAC for home use (which is on backorder, but arriving from Sennheiser next week).
   
  I'm also in the market for a portable amplifier to take these puppies on-the-go.  I have a Meridian Explorer USB DAC, which I've liked very much for lower-powered headphones, but without a doubt I'll get infinitely better quality from my HD800's if I pair the Meridian with a portable amp.  I could always go alternatively with a portable all-in-one DAC/Amp (like the ALO Intercontinental).
   
  Here are the ones I'm looking at:
   
  ALO Rx Mk3-B+ (which appeals to me for both its long battery life and balanced XLR output)
  ALO Intercontinental (if I decide to, for instance, ditch the Meridian Explorer when using my HD800's)
  ALO Continental v3 (I'm more of a solid state guy, but I understand that the RX Mk3-B+ might brighten the HD800's sound too much)
  Ray Samuels Audio products (The Shadow, SR-71, Predator, Protector, et. al.)
   
  ...Any other suggestions are very much welcomed.
   
  My music tastes are all over the map, but I'm particularly a huge classical, jazz, and Pink Floyd fan - so I'm concerned about reports I've heard about "grain" when listening to the HD800's over the Rx Mk3, even though it's capabilities make it my front-runner portable amp-only.... and I hope that maybe the Meridian will help smooth it out.  I also have a fairly large collection of 24bit/192khz files (which the Meridian Explorer can decode), so if I go with an all-in-one Amp & DAC, I'd love for the DAC on that unit to be able to decode my high-res music.
   
  Anyway, any portable amp recommendations you guys have - or any advice on the products I've listed above - would be hugely appreciated.  Thanks so much!
   
  EDIT: I'd prefer to not have to buy a separate DAC and separate amp for my HD800's, within reason.  It'd be best for me to either pair a portable amp with the Meridian Explorer (best case scenario), or purchase an all-in-one DAC & Amp.


----------



## Girls Generation

On-the-go as in... around places moving around...?
   
  I personally cannot fathom listening to the HD800 anywhere outside of my home since it bleeds sound worse than Audeze, and the added fact that every portable combination I have tried thus far with the HD800 resulted in a lean sound that I did not prefer. Then again, I had/have CIEMs so it wasn't priority for me to actually endeavor for a possible match. In any case, I would recommend trying the continental since tube may match better with the HD800 than an SS at the portable level.


----------



## persona1138

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> On-the-go as in... around places moving around...?
> 
> I personally cannot fathom listening to the HD800 anywhere outside of my home since it bleeds sound worse than Audeze, and the added fact that every portable combination I have tried thus far with the HD800 resulted in a lean sound that I did not prefer. Then again, I had/have CIEMs so it wasn't priority for me to actually endeavor for a possible match. In any case, I would recommend trying the continental since tube may match better with the HD800 than an SS at the portable level.


 
  Thanks for the recommendation!  I'm a film and television editor, and often need to work off-site but don't want to lug around my HDVD800... Hence the need for a portable monitoring solution that offers natural (which is my listening preference anyway) sound.
   
  ...Anyway, don't worry.  I'm not using my HD800's on the train, plane, or anywhere in a public setting.


----------



## Stalker81598

dubstep girl said:


> the Tung Sol 7236 are pretty nice if you can't find tung sol 5998, these tubes are kinda hard to find, so this wouldn't be a bad buy.
> the best by far for the HD 800 though are the GEC 6AS7G, most transparent, sweet beautiful tube sound (Even better than 5998 which is already quite impressive), great textured tight bass, and very detailed treble and mids, lots of air. it can be a little bright at first, but after the tubes are fully warmed up, they sound amazing.
> 
> the Westinghouse 6V4 option jack sells is a total ripoff. look for a mullard ez80 or RFT EZ80 (these are easily found for $25 a pair NOS).
> ...



 
 Thanks for the info, very much appreciated.


----------



## Takeanidea

persona1138 said:


> Thanks for the recommendation!  I'm a film and television editor, and often need to work off-site but don't want to lug around my HDVD800... Hence the need for a portable monitoring solution that offers natural (which is my listening preference anyway) sound.
> 
> ...Anyway, don't worry.  I'm not using my HD800's on the train, plane, or anywhere in a public setting.




Tubes v solid state. That old chestnut. I have converted 4 of my headphone amps into portable ones using the power gorilla power pack. 
I can use an ALO Panam which is tube based and is 12v as well as a Graham Slee Novo Solid State and runs on 24v.
The key to this is whether the amp has a dc output jack. If it does youll be able to run it on a decent powerpack like the power gorilla. It's a case of checking thevvoltage the amp needs against the voltage the power pack can handle. 
The Panam gives a lovely sound and has a dac for extra flexibility over the Novo. The Novo can push more power and sounds better. It's probably cheaper on the 2nd hand market too and you don't have to search for a tip . The tips power gorilla supply fit it.
I live in a motorhome and seldom use mains electric.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> What would you guys say is the best amp in the $1-1.6k range for the HD800? I prefer a warmer sound, and am willing to sacrifice a bit of detail to get more body and thickness to the mids and bass, but soundstage must be remain good. Currently I'm looking at the WA2, WA6SE, CSP2+, Taboo MK III. Source is a Bifrost w/ Uber (single ended). Thanks guys!


 
  CSP2+ is smoothness, Taboo MK III is muscle....Both are great it just depends on your preference.


----------



## MickeyVee

Any comments on the: Emmeline II "The Raptor" Headphone Amp? There was an HD800 discussion on the Martin Logan owners forum and the member went with this and the DLIII. Said the combo was absolutely stunning. It's in my price range if I keep the Bifrost Uber or my DLIII as the DAC. I thin I've narrowed it down to the WA7 (preferred), WA2 or possibly the Raptor.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





zigy626 said:


> Since this is an appreciation thread for the HD800 I would just like to put this in writing. Yesterday while listening to a particular big band jazz piece I experienced a sensation one could only feel at a live event. It was like I was there, it was very exhilarating, be it only lasted for a short moment. I promise I was sober
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Nice! That's what its all about


----------



## rgs9200m

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Any comments on the: Emmeline II "The Raptor" Headphone Amp? There was an HD800 discussion on the Martin Logan owners forum and the member went with this and the DLIII. Said the combo was absolutely stunning. It's in my price range if I keep the Bifrost Uber or my DLIII as the DAC. I thin I've narrowed it down to the WA7 (preferred), WA2 or possibly the Raptor.


 
  HD800 has beautiful sonics with a B52, FWIW. (Try to get a not-too-high gain source because there is the DACT 23 stepped attenuator.)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

mickeyvee said:


> Any comments on the: Emmeline II "The Raptor" Headphone Amp? There was an HD800 discussion on the Martin Logan owners forum and the member went with this and the DLIII. Said the combo was absolutely stunning. It's in my price range if I keep the Bifrost Uber or my DLIII as the DAC. I thin I've narrowed it down to the WA7 (preferred), WA2 or possibly the Raptor.




Wa2 and dliii is nice with hd 899, especially if u like a warmer sound. 

I just sold my dliii to someone with a bifrost, they said dl3 was better, wasnt uber though.


----------



## third_eye

jd007 said:


> What would you guys say is the best amp in the $1-1.6k range for the HD800? I prefer a warmer sound, and am willing to sacrifice a bit of detail to get more body and thickness to the mids and bass, but soundstage must be remain good. Currently I'm looking at the WA2, WA6SE, CSP2+, Taboo MK III. Source is a Bifrost w/ Uber (single ended). Thanks guys!




A used (or new if you can stretch a few hundred) EC Super 7.


----------



## Sko0byDoo

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Wa2 and dliii is nice with *hd 899*, especially if u like a warmer sound.
> 
> I just sold my dliii to someone with a bifrost, they said dl3 was better, wasnt uber though.


 
   
  HD 899, new Sennheiser's uber set?


----------



## Mobilizer

Appreciation:
  Have, and have had, several cans from most of the majors.  Just got my HD800 11 days ago.
  My reference system is Lenovo Win7, 8 GB Ram, Foobar2K, JPlay etc. > Ayre QB-9 > Burson HA160DS > HD800 w stock cable.
  After over 260 hours nonstop burn-in with them sitting in a drawer, I started listening to favorites from my music collection.
  I have a slight problem:  I CANT TAKE THE DAMN THINGS OFF MY HEAD!!   Nor do I want to.  They convey way more pleasurable musical information than anything else I've experienced.  Have never heard Stax cans or the HE-6 (I own the HE5LE), but I did audition LCD-3 and they are equally compelling in a very different way.  I plan to buy them someday, finances permitting.
   
  Just a couple observations: 
  The treble "issue" many reviewers speak of, and which was quite present for me, pretty much disappeared after around 200 hours burn-in. 
  I suspect the low end "issue" (e.g. punch, slam, whambang, etc.) is more related to equipment matching and/or living in a society where explosive base (literally, as in home theater action movie woof-woof) pervades our sonic environment.
  To me, HD800 sounds balanced across the frequency spectrum - the base is well defined, dynamically correct, and fast.  And vocals are to die for.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

^ HE-5LE are a nice complement to the hd 800


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





mobilizer said:


> Appreciation:
> Have, and have had, several cans from most of the majors.  Just got my HD800 11 days ago.
> My reference system is Lenovo Win7, 8 GB Ram, Foobar2K, JPlay etc. > Ayre QB-9 > Burson HA160DS > HD800 w stock cable.
> After over 260 hours nonstop burn-in with them sitting in a drawer, I started listening to favorites from my music collection.
> ...


 
   
   
  How do you like that QB-9?  I'm thinking about getting one.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





third_eye said:


> A used (or new if you can stretch a few hundred) EC Super 7.


 
   
  I second this. I've owned a lot of tube amps on the "great with HD800" list -- including WA2, WA6SE, Liquid Fire, Mapletree Super II, etc. -- and the Super 7 is my favorite so far.


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> I second this. I've owned a lot of tube amps on the "great with HD800" list -- including WA2, WA6SE, Liquid Fire, Mapletree Super II, etc. -- and the Super 7 is my favorite so far.


 
  what would you say is the sound signature difference that makes the super 7 good? personal preference comes into play and i just want to make sure our preferences line up for the recommendation. specifically, wa2 vs super 7? thanks


----------



## Mobilizer

Quote: 





preproman said:


> How do you like that QB-9?  I'm thinking about getting one.


 
   
  I love it.  A bit on the high end of "affordable" gear at $2,750 list price but I have seen used ones for $2,000 claiming excellent or mint condition.  Having heard a number of DAC's since buying it, I consider $2K a steal for a good used one.  This is not to say it isn't worth every dollar of it's list price.
  It hits all the checkboxes for me:  solid state electronics, single-ended AND balanced outputs,  impeccable resolution, effortless dynamic range, quite neutral with a hint of warmth in the mids (not sacrificing speed or transparency - vocals are divine, especially with the HD800)).   What makes it stand out is the sense of musicality - I think the technical term people use is PRAT - pace, rhythm, attack, and timing.  I feel I am listening through the DAC and not to the DAC. 
  Note:  as you probably know, only input is USB.
  I have no negatives to speak of.  If I were in the market again, I might look at the April Eximus (includes head amp) or the Antelope Audio line.
  Hope this helps.


----------



## Hi Rez

Quote: 





preproman said:


> How do you like that QB-9?  I'm thinking about getting one.


 
  Been very happy with mine.  Musical describes it very well - voices come across as well, natural.
   
  A new DSD version is available - a pretty major upgrade to much of the internals.  A bit hard to believe, but from the couple of reviews I've seen, it appears offer a significant sound improvement over the original regardless of whether the DSD capability is used.
   
  Price has increased to $3250.  But if you can find a used 24/192 capable QB-9, Ayre will upgrade for the difference ($500).  Upgrades are a big benefit to the Ayre products - generally upgrades are priced at only the difference between the new and previous versions.  Hoping I can get mine upgraded soon.
   
  At the recent Denver meet I was able to borrow Justin's GSX MK2.  MB Pro > QB-9 > GSX MK2 > LCD3, with decent cables.  Couldn't imagine wanting more.  Justin's Oppo > Blue Hawaii > SR009 setup wasn't nearly as engaging.


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *Olias of Sunhillow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> I second this. I've owned a lot of tube amps on the "great with HD800" list -- including WA2, WA6SE, Liquid Fire, Mapletree Super II, etc. -- and the Super 7 is my favorite so far.


 



jd007 said:


> what would you say is the sound signature difference that makes the super 7 good? personal preference comes into play and i just want to make sure our preferences line up for the recommendation. specifically, wa2 vs super 7? thanks


 
   
  Yep.. I'd appreciate thoughts on what made the S7 sound so good with the HD800, as well.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> Thanks for the info, very much appreciated.


 
   
  update on those tube recommendations if you decide on WA2. the tung sol 7236 by jack is really good if you like a really warm lush sound. they're good!


----------



## Mobilizer

Quote: 





hi rez said:


> Been very happy with mine.  Musical describes it very well - voices come across as well, natural.
> 
> A new DSD version is available - a pretty major upgrade to much of the internals.  A bit hard to believe, but from the couple of reviews I've seen, it appears offer a significant sound improvement over the original regardless of whether the DSD capability is used.
> 
> ...


 
  My dealer is going to call me when he gets in the upgraded QB-9.  I will spend at least an hour to get initial impression of sonic differences - I currently have no interest in DSD but will be glad to pass along any impressions.  Hi Rez echoed what my dealer said - lots of changes in addition to DSD capability.  Maybe should post assessments on Ayre appreciation thread?
   
  Also wondering about the GSX MK2 - aside from forum posts I haven't seen any industry reviews on this model.  Anyone know of one and can publish link?  Thanks


----------



## skeptic

For those of you considering otl Woo amps for your hd800's, I would strongly urge you to find a way to audition before buying.  Their otl line has a very definite house sound that is full, smooth and immersive - but ultimately not dynamic, detailed or punchy enough (IMO of course) to really show off everything the hd800's can do.  I haven't heard the S7, but if you were to compare a ZD, or even one of the bottlehead amps, to a Woo2 or Woo3, you would immediately perceive significant differences in these respects.  The Woos are warm and enveloping but sound slow by comparison.  It boils down to a matter of personal preference.
   
  I hate to recommend against them.  Woo definitely makes beautiful products, and the Woo 5 -> hd800 is jaw dropping good for choral music.  For several years, I owned and very much enjoyed a Woo 3 (running amperex pq 7308's, which now cost about as much as the amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  It was great with hd650's but not great at all (IMO) with hd800's.  Based on the time I've spent with it at meets, the Woo 2 is more powerful and more highly resolved than the Woo 3, but they ultimately sound quite similar with your eyes closed...
   
  Beefy's comment from the crack thread is also worth considering from a design standpoint (http://www.head-fi.org/t/476650/crack-bottlehead-otl/1935#post_9600445 ):
   


> The truth of the matter is, aside from the WA2 using paralleled sections on the output and thus having higher peak power output, the Crack is potentially a FAR better amp.
> 
> With a Speedball, you have a much better tube load than the resistors in the WA2. LED biasing should be superior. Bit hard to tell from the photos whether the WA2 is direct or AC coupled. Add a good pot and film caps on the output, and you are miles ahead for far lower cost.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





mobilizer said:


> Appreciation:
> Have, and have had, several cans from most of the majors.  Just got my HD800 11 days ago.
> My reference system is Lenovo Win7, 8 GB Ram, Foobar2K, JPlay etc. > Ayre QB-9 > Burson HA160DS > HD800 w stock cable.
> After over 260 hours nonstop burn-in with them sitting in a drawer, I started listening to favorites from my music collection.
> ...


 
  Glad you are enjoying your HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  For me, the "treble issue" went away after I got my Moon Audio Black Dragon. Not sure about burn in because I listened to mine right out of the box so any differences might just be perceived.
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> update on those tube recommendations if you decide on WA2. the tung sol 7236 by jack is really good if you like a really warm lush sound. they're good!


 
   
  Thanks, that's exactly what I'm looking for.
   
  Quote: 





skeptic said:


> For those of you considering otl Woo amps for your hd800's, I would strongly urge you to find a way to audition before buying.  Their otl line has a *very definite house sound that is full, smooth and immersive* - but ultimately not dynamic, detailed or punchy enough (IMO of course) to really show off everything the hd800's can do.  I haven't heard the S7, but if you were to compare a ZD, or even one of the bottlehead amps, to a Woo2 or Woo3, you would immediately perceive significant differences in these respects.  *The Woos are warm and enveloping but sound slow by comparison*.  It boils down to a matter of personal preference.


 
   
  You just made me want the WA2 even more


----------



## Mobilizer

Hell, ALL differences are perceived!  All seriousness aside,  the Dragons are among the 3 or 4 cables most frequently recommended for the Sennies.  And, full disclosure:  at my age and given my audiologist's report, the Sennies are perfect 'cause my hearing rolls off at just the right point anyway...


----------



## scottiebabie

thought i'd mention it but it just occurred to me to deoxit the headphone jack of the new amp. while at it, i also cleaned the headphone plugs & sprayed some into the HD800 headphone connectors as well. is there a diff? could be psychoaccoutics but the upper treble seems smoother. 
   
  on the hand, bass slam on the "new" Audio Space 300 amp seems deeper & fuller. didnt know tubes take some hours to seat to realize a sonic change. honestly ive never heard my HD800 (or T1 for that matter) sound better. its an amazing amp for headphones for not much money (used that is). life is good!


----------



## froger

mobilizer said:


> I love it.  A bit on the high end of "affordable" gear at $2,750 list price but I have seen used ones for $2,000 claiming excellent or mint condition.  Having heard a number of DAC's since buying it, I consider $2K a steal for a good used one.  This is not to say it isn't worth every dollar of it's list price.
> It hits all the checkboxes for me:  solid state electronics, single-ended AND balanced outputs,  impeccable resolution, effortless dynamic range, quite neutral with a hint of warmth in the mids (not sacrificing speed or transparency - vocals are divine, especially with the HD800)).   What makes it stand out is the sense of musicality - I think the technical term people use is PRAT - pace, rhythm, attack, and timing.  I feel I am listening through the DAC and not to the DAC.
> Note:  as you probably know, only input is USB.
> I have no negatives to speak of.  If I were in the market again, I might look at the April Eximus (includes head amp) or the Antelope Audio line.
> Hope this helps.


I was comtemplating whether to get Qb-9 dsd or eximus dp-1 over the last week since both are supposed to be very musical and should complement my hd800 and incoming gs-x well. In the end, I went the eximus dp-1 way mainly because I just couldn't justify the over $1000 difference based on my local pricing and there aren't enough reviews to substantiate the improvement of one over the other. In addition, the built-in amp in eximus, while not the best/optimal, should be able to tide me over this period with hd800 while waiting for Gs-x 's arrival


----------



## froger

While I did not buy the Eximus dp-1 from BournePerfect, I do share the same thoughts as his that along the chain, there should be something musical to complement HD800's neutrality. When I demoed the HD800 with my now sold Audio-gd Master-7 and Master-8 amp few months ago, I just felt that the music was so lifeless even though it sounded grand. Of course, this is based on my preference, others may prefer the entire chain to be as neutral as possible.


----------



## BournePerfect

I had that exact same AGD setup froger-lifeless and bland described it to a T.  I do wish I had some orthos at the time though-as I feel that rig would have suited them nicely-the Audezes anyway.
   
  FYI-don't expect too much from the DP-1 headphone out with the Senns-it's great for low impedance cans, but is somwhat thin and lacking weight for the HD800s. Not sure when your GSX is supposed to arrive-but a $200 m-Stage sounds pretty darn good whith the DP-1/HD800 to tide you over. Congrats on the Eximus! I'm sure you'll love it-just don't judge it until you get a real amp in the chain. 
   
  -Daniel


----------



## hmouse

froger said:


> While I did not buy the Eximus dp-1 from BournePerfect, I do share the same thoughts as his that along the chain, there should be something musical to complement HD800's neutrality. When I demoed the HD800 with my now sold Audio-gd Master-7 and Master-8 amp few months ago, I just felt that the music was so lifeless even though it sounded grand. Of course, this is based on my preference, others may prefer the entire chain to be as neutral as possible.



 
 But isn't the GS-X mk2 considered to be one of the most neutral and transparent amp?


----------



## hmouse

OK, read your post again, you want the source to be something musical in the chain to complement GS-X mk2 and HD800. That's all right. Can you post some impressions on M8 vs GS-X mk2 when you get your new amp? Thanks.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





mobilizer said:


> Hell, ALL differences are perceived!  All seriousness aside,  the Dragons are among the 3 or 4 cables most frequently recommended for the Sennies.  And, full disclosure:  at my age and given my audiologist's report, the Sennies are perfect 'cause my hearing rolls off at just the right point anyway...


 
   
  I'm sure the Dragons are very good cables and pair very well with the HD800s.  Another choice would be dealing with James @ Stefan AudioArt and his Endorphin cables, He's an ex Senn. engineer and has a lot of insight on the HD800.  Most of it may be sneak oil just like every other cable person out their.  However, his cable sure does look good
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I got mine Hardwired.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I'm sure the Dragons are very good cables and pair very well with the HD800s.  Another choice would be dealing with James @ Stefan AudioArt and his Endorphin cables, He's an ex Senn. engineer and has a lot of insight on the HD800.  Most of it may be sneak oil just like every other cable person out their.  However, his cable sure does look good
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's a nice looking cable. I like the paint job on the HD800 as well.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> That's a nice looking cable. I like the paint job on the HD800 as well.


 
  Thanks Stalker...
   
  That's a strange user name..  Ha ha ha


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





preproman said:


> That's Stalker...
> 
> That's a strange user name..  Ha ha ha


 
   
  Hehe yea. I used to use it as a callsign for video games like ten years ago and still use it just for the sake of continuity. Re-creating hundreds of accounts just to change it seems like a daunting task.


----------



## froger

Thanks BournePerfect, one of the reasons I got the Eximus DP-1 is because of your views on it since we shared similar views on the audio-gd set-up with HD800. I was using Audeze LCD-2 mainly on the audio-gd set-up though and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I would have upgraded the LCD-2 to LCD-3 and kept the similar set-up if not for the fact that the master-7 and 8 were simply too big for my new place. Fitting them will no doubt incur the wrath of my missus and an unhappy wife will never allow me to listen to my music happily :/





bourneperfect said:


> I had that exact same AGD setup froger-lifeless and bland described it to a T.  I do wish I had some orthos at the time though-as I feel that rig would have suited them nicely-the Audezes anyway.
> 
> FYI-don't expect too much from the DP-1 headphone out with the Senns-it's great for low impedance cans, but is somwhat thin and lacking weight for the HD800s. Not sure when your GSX is supposed to arrive-but a $200 m-Stage sounds pretty darn good whith the DP-1/HD800 to tide you over. Congrats on the Eximus! I'm sure you'll love it-just don't judge it until you get a real amp in the chain.
> 
> -Daniel


----------



## froger

hmouse said:


> OK, read your post again, you want the source to be something musical in the chain to complement GS-X mk2 and HD800. That's all right. Can you post some impressions on M8 vs GS-X mk2 when you get your new amp? Thanks.




Hi hmouse, I doubt my comparison of m8 and gs-x will be meaningful at all as I have changed my entire chain top to bottom. In the last 3 weeks, I have sold my main rig dac, amp and headphone and completed replaced them. The only thing I did not change is my secondary rig He-6 and mini torii amp


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





froger said:


> While I did not buy the Eximus dp-1 from BournePerfect, I do share the same thoughts as his that along the chain, there should be something musical to complement HD800's neutrality. *When I demoed the HD800 with my now sold Audio-gd Master-7 and Master-8 amp few months ago, I just felt that the music was so lifeless even though it sounded grand*. Of course, this is based on my preference, others may prefer the entire chain to be as neutral as possible.


 
   
  Wow, quite shocked you found the Master-7/Master-8 bland and lifeless. I don't have the exact same combi, mine is the NFB-7 & Master-6, but bland & lifeless are amongst the absolute last words I would use to describe the sound I am getting. And that is the same on the HD6's, T1 & LCD2.2's.
  The Master-7 may be more 'laid back' and possibly even more neutral the my NFB-7 but surely the difference is not that much!


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Wow, quite shocked you found the Master-7/Master-8 bland and lifeless. I don't have the exact same combi, mine is the NFB-7 & Master-6, but bland & lifeless are amongst the absolute last words I would use to describe the sound I am getting. And that is the same on the HD6's, T1 & LCD2.2's.
> The Master-7 may be more 'laid back' and possibly even more neutral the my NFB-7 but surely the difference is not that much!


 
   
  You know nigeljames.  I'm not sure but I'm thinking some folks equates lifeless with detail or neutral or maybe transparent even - not sure.  The Master 7 is just that.  Lord knows these same folks may not like the GS-X mk2 either I'm guessing.  It puts nothing in the recording that's not already there.  Same with the Master 7.  The GS-X mk2 / Master 7 / HD800s is one of the most revealing rigs I've heard to date.  
   
  Does lifeless equals neutral?  
   
  I understand some like a sweet sound so to speak.  I've yet to hear a sweet sounding DAC or AMP that can deliver the same level of resolution and detail retrieval when compared to a transparent DAC or AMP.  Examples of sweet sounding DACs and AMPs I've heard.  Metrum HEX, Octave mkII and the Beta22.


----------



## froger

preproman said:


> You know nigeljames.  I'm not sure but I'm thinking some folks equates lifeless with detail or neutral or maybe transparent even - not sure.  The Master 7 is just that.  Lord knows these same folks may not like the GS-X mk2 either I'm guessing.  It puts nothing in the recording that's not already there.  Same with the Master 7.  The GS-X mk2 / Master 7 / HD800s is one of the most revealing rigs I've heard to date.
> 
> Does lifeless equals neutral?
> 
> I understand some like a sweet sound so to speak.  I've yet to hear a sweet sounding DAC or AMP that can deliver the same level of resolution and detail retrieval when compared to a transparent DAC or AMP.  Examples of sweet sounding DACs and AMPs I've heard.  Metrum HEX, Octave mkII and the Beta22.



I wonder if the some folks who can't differentiate between lifeless and neutral refer to BournePerfect and me  just giving my opinion on what I heard, I will certainly hope to hear from others who have the audio-gd combi and hd800. I am not a technical person, my ideal music is to sound as realistic and engaging as possible, I seriously don't care if it is more detailed or more neutral. All I can say is that the audio-gd combi + hd800 didn't work for me, while with lcd-2, it was great. Anyone who choose to think otherwise, I have no problem with that. That is what the forum is for, to gather more views so as to make a "wiser" decision, hopefully


----------



## FraGGleR

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Thanks Stalker...
> 
> That's a strange user name..  Ha ha ha


 
  Holy Sh!t.  That cable puts your Reign 24s to shame.  Glad you found someone able to do the hardwire for you.


----------



## songmic

Okay guys, I have a big question that I'd like to discuss with all of you.
   
  Which type of DAC do you think is a better match with the HD800: a DAC that tries to be as perfectly neutral as possible, without adding or subtracting anything from the sound, or a DAC that has a warm, lush, colored sound? In terms of technicalities, the former could be considered a superior DAC. However, some people try to warm down the neutral, yet slightly bright sound signature of the HD800 by using a warm sounding amp. So do you people prefer a warm DAC over a neutral DAC when using the HD800?
   
  Or, to think of it another way, since the HD800 is well known as an unforgiving headphone (garbage in, garbage out), would it make more sense to use the most neutral, transparent DAC as the upstream source gear instead of a DAC with colorations? Because for me, I've long held belief that the source component, including DAC, should be as neutral as possible, that it's the amp and ultimately the headphones that decide whether or not to add any coloration to the sound.
   
  So what do you experts think?
   
  A. Since the HD800 is an unforgiving headphone that lets you hear the original sound from the source in brutal honesty (a clear window through which the sound leaves), the DAC should be as neutral sounding as possible. If one wants to add some coloration to the music, such as making it sound warmer, he should do so by finding a warm sounding amp.
   
  OR
   
  B. Since the HD800 is a bright sounding headphone, it is recommended to use a warm sounding DAC (and/or a warm sounding headphone amp) to take away its harshness rather than a very neutral DAC.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





froger said:


> I wonder if the some folks who can't differentiate between lifeless and neutral refer to BournePerfect and me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'd fall into this category as well. I tried the GS-X Mk2 and didn't like it because of its transparency. I was shot down for saying so. I prefer an amp that has some coloration. I don't have any hard feelings though, I'm just here to enjoy my HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





songmic said:


> Okay guys, I have a big question that I'd like to discuss with all of you.
> 
> Which type of DAC do you think is a better match with the HD800: a DAC that tries to be as perfectly neutral as possible, without adding or subtracting anything from the sound, or a DAC that has a warm, lush, colored sound? In terms of technicalities, the former could be considered a superior DAC. However, some people try to warm down the neutral, yet slightly bright sound signature of the HD800 by using a warm sounding amp. So do you people prefer a warm DAC over a neutral DAC when using the HD800?
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is entirely a matter of opinion. A neutral or transparent amp will bring forth more detail but might sound boring or dry to some. A warm, lush amp will color the sound in possibly a favorable way but will usually reduce detail and resolution.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Okay guys, I have a big question that I'd like to discuss with all of you.
> 
> Which type of DAC do you think is a better match with the HD800: a DAC that tries to be as perfectly neutral as possible, without adding or subtracting anything from the sound, or a DAC that has a warm, lush, colored sound? In terms of technicalities, the former could be considered a superior DAC. However, some people try to warm down the neutral, yet slightly bright sound signature of the HD800 by using a warm sounding amp. So do you people prefer a warm DAC over a neutral DAC when using the HD800?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Firstly the HD800's are NOT harsh sounding. Many times the 'harshness' is already in the system and the HD800's are just revealing what is already there.
   
  I hightly colored source will restrict future options so IMO it's best to stay with the most uncolored source as possible and rely on the amp/phones to add whatever coloration you want. Neither my amp or dac are warm sounding but the HD800's still sound superb.
  If you feel you will need to correct any presumed HD800 failings then maybe the HD800's are the wrong phone for you.
  Do you find any glaring faults with your HD800's?


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> This is entirely a matter of opinion. A neutral or transparent amp will bring forth more detail but might sound boring or dry to some. A warm, lush amp will color the sound in possibly a favorable way but will usually reduce detail and resolution.


 
   
  I don't think you understood my question clearly. I was talking about DAC, not amp. I do agree with you that when it comes to amp, it's a matter of opinion. With HD800, one may prefer a highly neutral and transparent "wire with gain" amp like GS-X, or a warm amp that will color the sound in a favorable way like ZDSE (although I feel the ZDSE does so without sacrificing much detail/resolution).
   
  What I'm saying is, what about the DAC? DAC's and amps are a whole different story, and while I think an amp can be colored sounding to make the HD800 more enjoyable, the same logic may not apply to the DAC. Because HD800 is a highly transparent window that lets you hear the original sound with brutal honesty, it can also be interpreted that HD800 is a very source-dependent headphone. Also, my philosophy in hi-fi audio has been that the ideal source component is a DAC that simply lets the music through in its purest form, without adding any errors/distortion/colorations; if one wants to add coloration to the sound for musical enjoyment, it should be done in the amp or speakers/headphones section. But this is my opinion, and I wanted to know what other people thinks.
   
  So I'll ask again. With the HD800, which type of DAC do you guys prefer more?


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Firstly the HD800's are NOT harsh sounding. Many times the 'harshness' is already in the system and the HD800's are just revealing what is already there.
> 
> I hightly colored source will restrict future options so IMO it's best to stay with the most uncolored source as possible and rely on the amp/phones to add whatever coloration you want. Neither my amp or dac are warm sounding but the HD800's still sound superb.
> *If you feel you will need to correct any presumed HD800 failings then maybe the HD800's are the wrong phone for you.*


 
   
  I disagree with this. When I got the HD800, I found it a little harsh around the treble peak, especially coming from the HE-500. Switching to a Black Dragon cable removed this problem and now I love the HD800. If I had dismissed it immediately just because it wasn't perfect, I'd be missing out on an amazing headphone.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





songmic said:


> I don't think you understood my question clearly. I was talking about DAC, not amp. I do agree with you that when it comes to amp, it's a matter of opinion. With HD800, one may prefer a highly neutral and transparent "wire with gain" amp like GS-X, or a warm amp that will color the sound in a favorable way like ZDSE (although I feel the ZDSE does so without sacrificing much detail/resolution).
> 
> What I'm saying is, what about the DAC? DAC's and amps are a whole different story, and while I think an amp can be colored sounding to make the HD800 more enjoyable, the same logic may not apply to the DAC. Because HD800 is a highly transparent window that lets you hear the original sound with brutal honesty, it can also be interpreted that HD800 is a very source-dependent headphone. Also, my philosophy in hi-fi audio has been that the ideal source component is a DAC that simply lets the music through in its purest form, without adding any errors/distortion/colorations; if one wants to add coloration to the sound for musical enjoyment, it should be done in the amp or speakers/headphones section. But this is my opinion, and I wanted to know what other people thinks.
> 
> So I'll ask again. With the HD800, which type of DAC do you guys prefer more?


 
   
  I don't think it really matters. If you add the coloration in the amp or the DAC, the end result is the same. IMO of course.


----------



## froger

stalker81598 said:


> I'd fall into this category as well. I tried the GS-X Mk2 and didn't like it because of its transparency. I was shot down for saying so. I prefer an amp that has some coloration. I don't have any hard feelings though, I'm just here to enjoy my HD800


i think if you had made yourself clearer by saying you didn't like it because the amp was too transparent that it allowed you to hear how crappy your iPhone sounded, then you would not be shot down


----------



## RedBull

nigeljames said:


> Firstly the HD800's are NOT harsh sounding. Many times the 'harshness' is already in the system and the HD800's are just revealing what is already there




I agree. With my Leben, HD800 is even smoother than my LCD2.1


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





froger said:


> i think if you had made yourself clearer by saying you didn't like it because the amp was too transparent that it allowed you to hear how crappy your iPhone sounded, then you would not be shot down


 
   
  You GS-X guys sure are a proud bunch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you'd like to read my original post about the GS-X, you'll see that I actually praised the GS-X for its transparency and technical superiority. If you're interested, post can be found here:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-appreciation-thread/4275#post_9670336
   
  Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> I had an opportunity to listen to my HD800 with the GS-X at a local audio store for about 30 minutes. I'd really like to sit down with it at home for a week to get a proper listening session but I'll take what I can get. I normally run my HD800 with the Lyr and Amperex Orange Globes. In comparison, the GS-X had a noticeably larger amount of micro-details and clarity but I wouldn't say it was a "night and day" difference. Highs were a little crisper and slightly more prevalent. I found the midrange a bit dry compared to the Lyr. Bass seemed to have a little less weight than the Lyr as well.
> 
> Overall I prefer the Lyr for the HD800. If you are all about maximizing detail and clarity, I can see how the GS-X would be a top contender. I'd still like to spend a little more time with it to make a better comparison in a more ideal environment.


----------



## BournePerfect

NigelJames:
   
  I'm glad you're loving the AGD combo-but I wouldn't be surprised if the NFB-27 is adding some coloration or 'fun' to your chain-regardless of what Kingwa says. He usually expresses his differences in his dacs as subtle at best, but myself and others have found the changes borderline dramatic at times. My Reference 9 was lively, full, somewhat bass heavy, and slightly warm. It was absolutely colored compared to the M7. I bet if I ask Kingwa, he'd just say one's more musical, one's more neutral. I'd be very curious to hear your impressions of the M7 compared to the 27 someday. I know you've been raving about your combo for quite sometime now-but I can't shake the feeling that it's not as 'neutral' as you may think...
   
  Songmic-most people will say to get a colored amp or can-I personally understand that approach. I also feel that there's got to be some sort of coloration in the chain for the HD800-this is purely subjective, but a lot of people share that viewpoint. OTOH, (regardless of my aforementioned M7/Ref 9 comparison)-I don't think there's generally a large difference in dacs around the same pricepoint, though NOS tends to be the exception.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> NigelJames:
> 
> I'm glad you're loving the AGD combo-but I wouldn't be surprised if the NFB-27 is adding some coloration or 'fun' to your chain-regardless of what Kingwa says. He usually expresses his differences in his dacs as subtle at best, but myself and others have found the changes borderline dramatic at times. My Reference 9 was lively, full, somewhat bass heavy, and slightly warm. It was absolutely colored compared to the M7. I bet if I ask Kingwa, he'd just say one's more musical, one's more neutral. I'd be very curious to hear your impressions of the M7 compared to the 27 someday. I know you've been raving about your combo for quite sometime now-but I can't shake the feeling that it's not as 'neutral' as you may think...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Could you explain a bit about the NOS part? To be frank, I haven't done much direct A/B with DAC's as I have done with amps; in fact, I've been living with the same DAC for almost 2 years now, Metrum Acoustic Octave DAC which happens to be a NOS DAC. I know what NOS means, and I don't mind about it being NOS since I can upsample using my softwares (Pure Music, Audirvana Plus). What I also know is that my Octave DAC is a highly neutral and transparent DAC without much colorations, with one reviewer describing it as pure mineral water compared to many other DAC's in the market that are like soda pops with different flavors. I'm not sure if it being NOS has anything to do with its neutral-sounding qualities, though.
   
  What makes you say that NOS DAC's tend to be an exception? Are you saying that they are better, worse, or simply different compared to DAC's in the same price point? If different, could you explain how so?


----------



## palmfish

I know I'm stating the obvious, but all DAC's are amplifiers too. 

Deciding where in the chain you want to "color" your sound is entirely up to you. Personally, I think EQ makes the most sense since the variations from recording to recording are all over the map. The HD800 can sound piercing with Dire Straits "Brothers in Arms" and lush with Patricia Barber "Nightclub" without changing a single thing upstream.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> NigelJames:
> 
> I'm glad you're loving the AGD combo-but I wouldn't be surprised if the NFB-27 is adding some coloration or 'fun' to your chain-regardless of what Kingwa says. He usually expresses his differences in his dacs as subtle at best, but myself and others have found the changes borderline dramatic at times. My Reference 9 was lively, full, somewhat bass heavy, and slightly warm. It was absolutely colored compared to the M7. I bet if I ask Kingwa, he'd just say one's more musical, one's more neutral. I'd be very curious to hear your impressions of the M7 compared to the 27 someday. I know you've been raving about your combo for quite sometime now-but I can't shake the feeling that it's not as 'neutral' as you may think...
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  I honestly can't see the NFB-7 (note NFB-7 not NFB-27 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) adding any significant coloration to be honest, everything is in proportion and nothing is missing. I went with the NFB-7 over the REF-7 because it is more neutral than the darker souning REF series. I have even added silver cables, from co-axial to IC's to headphone cables to increase the speed, detail and transparency of my system.
   
  I know the Master-7 is more neutral than the REF series and is closer to my NFB-7 in character so both should be very close in the neutrality department.
  The only 'fun' that the NFB-7 is adding is a more assertive sound than I would have got with any other AGD Dac and that was a deliberate choice on my part.
   
  I could actually understand if you were using the REF7 and described the sound as 'boring' or 'flat' because I had the REF5.32 in my system a few months ago and had the same opinion ( I am assuming the REF5.32 & REF7.1 have the same basic character which might not be the case) with the HE6's and T1's but I did not have the HD800's at that time but to say the same thing about the M7 is still IMO surprising.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Could you explain a bit about the NOS part? To be frank, I haven't done much direct A/B with DAC's as I have done with amps; in fact, I've been living with the same DAC for almost 2 years now, Metrum Acoustic Octave DAC which happens to be a NOS DAC. I know what NOS means, and I don't mind about it being NOS since I can upsample using my softwares (Pure Music, Audirvana Plus). What I also know is that my Octave DAC is a highly neutral and transparent DAC without much colorations, with one reviewer describing it as pure mineral water compared to many other DAC's in the market that are like soda pops with different flavors. I'm not sure if it being NOS has anything to do with its neutral-sounding qualities, though.
> 
> What makes you say that NOS DAC's tend to be an exception? Are you saying that they are better, worse, or simply different compared to DAC's in the same price point? If different, could you explain how so?


 
   
  NOS=Non-Over Sampling as far as dacs go. In a nutshell-they tend to sound more natural-more like real life, vs hi-fi. They generally are somewhat rolled off in the bass and treble regions-although reports seems to suggest Metrum doesn't really fall into those pitfalls.
   
  Palmfish-funny you mentioned BIA as that was one of my favorite songs to listen to when I had the ZDSE with the HD800. But now the Mjolnir doesn't seem to be doing it any favors.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## palmfish

bourneperfect said:


> Palmfish-funny you mentioned BIA as that was one of my favorite songs to listen to when I had the ZDSE with the HD800. But now the Mjolnir doesn't seem to be doing it any favors.
> 
> -Daniel




I love the album but I have never had a digital version that sounds good to me. I think it is the epitome of "hi-fi" sound that you sometimes refer too. I can only listen to it on vinyl...


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> NOS=Non-Over Sampling as far as dacs go. In a nutshell-they tend to sound more natural-more like real life, vs hi-fi. They generally are somewhat rolled off in the bass and treble regions-although reports seems to suggest Metrum doesn't really fall into those pitfalls.


 
   
  Indeed, many have reported that Metrum DAC's sound more "analog" - i.e. sounding closer to vinyl compared to other DAC's that sound "digital." For HD800, would you recommend a NOS DAC or a non-NOS DAC?


----------



## BournePerfect

I listen to it on Private Investigations-not sure if it's a different master or not though...gosh I still remember how the ZDSE captured that song...mid-song guitar solo sounding like it's ripping through the atmosphere like a hot knife through butter...mmm.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Indeed, many have reported that Metrum DAC's sound more "analog" - i.e. sounding closer to vinyl compared to other DAC's that sound "digital." For HD800, would you recommend a NOS DAC or a non-NOS DAC?


 
  Why don't you try something like a cheaper Concero to a/b with your Octave? The HD800 with pretty much just reveal what you feed it-personally I think a great NOS dac would be better suited, but that's why I love the Eximus-kind in between analog and hifi imo.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> what would you say is the sound signature difference that makes the super 7 good? personal preference comes into play and i just want to make sure our preferences line up for the recommendation. specifically, wa2 vs super 7? thanks


 
   
  I'd say it's close to 100% personal preference, since the other tube amps listed are all fantastic pieces of kit and excel in their own ways.
   
  My own Head-Fi journey has slowly but surely led me away from more colored, stereotypically "tube-like" gear in a quest for a sound that's musical yet neutral, euphonic yet accurate. I owned the HD800 once before and sold them because they were "too cold" for my tastes (and rig) at the time. Now, with different expectations, better equipment and an open mind, I find my 2nd set of HD800s to be just what I'm looking for as a foil for the LCD-3.
   
  With the Super 7, the HD800 are not "compromised" in an attempt to sound like a different model with a different sound signature. (One might argue that the WA2 _does_ compromise the HD800, though in a way that I found fully engaging at the time.) The highs are detailed and articulate but never searing or harsh (unless the recording demands it). The bass is full and impactful in a way that doesn't approach an LCD3-like presentation, but doesn't really aspire to. It's really not a night-and-day difference from my BHA-1: a touch more warmth with an added tier of musicality and impact, but both are essentially neutral (whatever that means) pieces that find the sweet spot between creating engaging musical experiences vs. getting out of the recording's way.
   
  In my completely non-scientific opinion, there's a bit of a vicious cycle at play in mid-fi tube electronics. Consumers purchase audio gear to get that "tube sound," even though tubes are just a part of the implementation that makes gear sound the way it does. Manufacturers respond by playing up the tubey-ness of their kit in hopes of increasing sales -- thereby cementing in people's minds that tube electronics are supposed to sound a certain way. And on it goes. I find it refreshing that manufacturers like Craig at Eddie Current buck this trend and create fantastic tube gear that defies the "tubey goodness" logic and just sounds great.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Firstly the HD800's are NOT harsh sounding. Many times the 'harshness' is already in the system and the HD800's are just revealing what is already there.


 
   
  this is GOSPEL right there according to Saint (nigel)James!!! lols
   
  as per my ears, the Senns can be harsh, grainy & even grating depending on what its fed upstream. its can bass light or bass heavy & even slams harder (or not) than a Grado PS500. tis a strange animal tis HD800.
   
  on another subject, im finding similar chameleon like results with the Beyer T1 as well. right now in my rig as it, the T1 does not suffer any deficiencies in soundstage or in micro details than the HD800. indeed in some respects, the T1 surpasses ... all cos of synergistic amplification. amazing journey of discovery this


----------



## rgs9200m

stalker81598 said:


> I disagree with this. When I got the HD800, I found it a little harsh around the treble peak, especially coming from the HE-500. Switching to a Black Dragon cable removed this problem and now I love the HD800. If I had dismissed it immediately just because it wasn't perfect, I'd be missing out on an amazing headphone.



 
 Same here. I love the black dragon with my HD800s. And definitely spring for a Furutech connector too (Neutriks are pretty bad whenever I have tried them in any application.) However, I still like my HE500 better (more smooth and liquid and better, in fact very fine deep bass). I also really like a Moon cable on the HE500s too -- the Silver Dragon, also with the Furutech connector.


----------



## preproman

Next stop for the HD800 -->


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> Same here. I love the black dragon with my HD800s. And definitely spring for a Furutech connector too (Neutriks are pretty bad whenever I have tried them in any application.)However, I still like my HE500 better (more smooth and liquid and better, in fact very fine deep bass). I also really like a Moon cable on the HE500s too -- the Silver Dragon, alsowith the Furutech connector.


 
   
  I like the Furutech connectors. Not sure about sonic benefits, but they seem really solid and well built. Both of my Moon cables have one.
  Also, +1 on the HE-500 love


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> With the Super 7, the HD800 are not "compromised" in an attempt to sound like a different model with a different sound signature. (One might argue that the WA2 _does_ compromise the HD800, though in a way that I found fully engaging at the time.) The highs are detailed and articulate but never searing or harsh (unless the recording demands it). The bass is full and impactful in a way that doesn't approach an LCD3-like presentation, but doesn't really aspire to. It's really not a night-and-day difference from my BHA-1: a touch more warmth with an added tier of musicality and impact, but both are essentially neutral (whatever that means) pieces that find the sweet spot between creating engaging musical experiences vs. getting out of the recording's way.


 
   
  ^ Darn. Couldn't have said it better myself.
   
  The HD800s are a tricky beast. It's hard to find a good compromise to enhance it where it needs it (more impactful bass, fuller less dry sound, take the edge off the treble) while retaining its superb qualities (plankton extraction, resolution, micro-dynamics, etc.)
   
  Also important to note that tube rolling to the S7 is really what makes it special. One can mix and match a variety of 6SN7s to obtain the desired sound signature. And a lot of good old-stock 6SN7s can be acquired for cheap.
   


stalker81598 said:


> I'd fall into this category as well. I tried the GS-X Mk2 and didn't like it because of its transparency. I was shot down for saying so. I prefer an amp that has some coloration. I don't have any hard feelings though, I'm just here to enjoy my HD800
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

   
  I agree with you. However, saying the GS-X provides a clear window into the recording, is transparent, is uncolored, is wire-with-gain is complete bull schmit. It's a myth you shouldn't believe, and it's a myth that for some inexplicable reason has been perpetrated for way way too long now. Every amp I've heard is colored, and the GS-X definitely has a certain sound signature. That being said, I was very impressed with the GS-X mk2. But I wouldn't touch one of those with an HD800 without Anax mods - mainly because the HD800 is problematic in certain ways. And I'd probably run a NOS or ladder DAC with the GS-X as well. Now I absolutely loved the HE-500 from the GS-X, but that's another story.


----------



## givemevinyl

Quote: 





purrin said:


> I agree with you. However, saying the GS-X provides a clear window into the recording, is transparent, is uncolored, is wire-with-gain is complete bull schmit. It's a myth you shouldn't believe, and it's a myth that for some inexplicable reason has been perpetrated for way way too long now. Every amp I've heard is colored, and the GS-X definitely has a certain sound signature. That being said, I was very impressed with the GS-X mk2.


----------



## BournePerfect

The 3 year wait tends to color perceptions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love how the GSX was wire with a gain-now the mkII is...more so? But yeah when people who claim it fills out the bass for the HD800, fixes the treble, yadda yadda_...it's colored_.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## preproman

All kinds of haters in the house.


----------



## BournePerfect

No haters here...I'll be ordering one after my Leviathan arrives (it deserves a nice stand-zing!).
   
  -Daniel


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





froger said:


> i think if you had made yourself clearer by saying you didn't like it because the amp was too transparent that it allowed you to hear how crappy your iPhone sounded, then you would not be shot down


 
  Exactly my experience. I haven't been so able to zoom into the differences with my sources/dacs as I have with this amp. With all of my previous amps, dacs/sources sounded very far more similar.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> The 3 year wait tends to color perceptions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  In 60 years, the original GS-X will be worth 10X more than the MkII because it's more rare and sounds better.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> In 60 years, the original GS-X will be worth 10X more than the MkII because it's more rare and sounds better.


 
  I've owned both at the same time and A-B'd both directly. With the new Dynalo+ modules on the older GS-X they are pretty close for sure with highly efficient headphones like the TH-900s or Grados, no doubt to my ears. With the HD800s, the MKII is slightly better with a bit more detail and slightly imaging. With the LCD-3s, the MKII is definitely better by a wider margin.


----------



## BournePerfect

Hey Peter-got any hi-rez shots of the GSX silver? Is it just the faceplate, or the whole unit on yours?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Hey Peter-got any hi-rez shots of the GSX silver? Is it just the faceplate, or the whole unit on yours?
> 
> -Daniel


 
  Actually mine is black. My old GS-X was silver (all silver).


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





purrin said:


> However, saying the GS-X provides a clear window into the recording, is transparent, is uncolored, is wire-with-gain is complete bull schmit. It's a myth you shouldn't believe, and it's a myth that for some inexplicable reason has been perpetrated for way way too long now. Every amp I've heard is colored, and the GS-X definitely has a certain sound signature. That being said, I was very impressed with the GS-X mk2. But I wouldn't touch one of those with an HD800 without Anax mods - mainly because the HD800 is problematic in certain ways. And I'd probably run a NOS or ladder DAC with the GS-X as well. Now I absolutely loved the HE-500 from the GS-X, but that's another story.


 
   
  Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> The 3 year wait tends to color perceptions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes yes, all amps are definitely have its own sound, no such thing as wire with gain.
   
  Whenever I play with this amp, I always have 'this' and the other amp have 'that' sound, same to DAC, headphone, even HD800 too.


----------



## jcx

Quote: 





> ...It's a myth you shouldn't believe, and it's a myth that for some inexplicable reason has been perpetrated for way way too long now. Every amp I've heard is colored...


 
   
  its a shame - you could have funded your system to the tune of US$10k by showing you could really hear the difference between a few of these "all amps definitely have own sound" - Clark's challenge is no longer open but none claimed it in a decade
   
  the rules should be well known - neither amp clipping (not hard with HD800 - can be driven with common op amps to over 120 dB SPL), frequency response matched to 0.1 dB over audio range (many pairing of SS amps already meet this criteria)
   
  output impedance padding and frequency response EQing done before comparison when one amp is clearly colored to begin with - say comparing tube vs SS
   
   
  then just "ears only" listening - meaning level matching, Double Blind - no using knowledge of brand, bling factor, audiophile community rep - just your ears, music and the 2 unlabeled amps
   
  its amazing how much of what audiophiles "know", "night and day" differences fall away under these conditions
   
   
  now some amps are colored, sometimes deliberately - but if you can't distinguish between some $200 amp with a few dollars of response shaping, impedance padding parts and a $2k amp in controlled listening?
   
   
  Stereophile's professional reviewers failed the "Carver Challenge" - with their own choice of SOTA tube amp, their speakers, their music, in their listening room vs Carver's tweaked $600 SS amp
   
   
  Blind testing can be debated in the Sound Science forum - this post is not debating Blind testing - just indicating why some still believe many amp differences are smaller than claimed by high end audiophile marketing, easily EQ'd into inaudibility


----------



## purrin

Yadda, yadda, yadda. We all know all amps sound the same and all we need is the Objective 2. Not sure what your point is, especially in the context of current conversation of this thread.


----------



## jcx

just that there is some evidence that most "amp color" isn't mysterious, worth 10-20x price differentials, 6 mo to yr long waits
   
  nor is the O2 my favorite amp topology  - Class A outputs bias is too cheap to not use for HD800 load - and the GedLee Metric, looking for low level crossover distortion deep into the noise floor test would support using Class A outputs
   
  there are very few that literally say "all amps sound alike" - that is a Straw Man argument


----------



## purrin

LOL, why didn't you just say that in the first place.


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





jcx said:


> just that most "amp color" isn't mysterious, worth 10-20x price differentials, 6 mo to yr long waits


 

 Are you kidding? I'd willingly wait a decade and pay thousands just to get my custom fuschia coloured amp. Although maybe I should consider cerulean (I hear it's in season atm) but you could never go wrong with a nice chartreuse or canary yellow. 

 AMP COLOUR MAKES A DIFFERENCE.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> Are you kidding? I'd willingly wait a decade and pay thousands just to get my custom fuschia coloured amp. Although maybe I should consider cerulean (I hear it's in season atm) but you could never go wrong with a nice chartreuse or canary yellow.
> 
> *AMP COLOUR MAKES A DIFFERENCE. *


 
   
  Absolutely. I've found that black amps have far better detail and dynamics than silver colored amps.


----------



## wink

I find that blue pilot lamps/LEDs make the amp more detailed/sterile sounding than red pilot lamps/LEDs which sound more fun/fuzzy/mellow.
   
  YMMV tremendously......


----------



## kazsud

bourneperfect said:


> No haters here...I'll be ordering one after my Leviathan arrives (it deserves a nice stand-zing!).
> 
> -Daniel



 
 What exactly is the Eddie Current Leviathan? It's not on his site


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> What exactly is the Eddie Current Leviathan? It's not on his site


 
  Try google...


----------



## Mobilizer

Amp with front facing north is bad feng shui. Interferes with harmony of energy in room. Must turn amp so front is facing east. If not possible (eg amp is crammed into rack with a bunch of other gear with pretty colors) remedy is to place speakers in middle of room, one on top of the other.


----------



## Girls Generation

I believe it really depends on your other components and what you're trying to achieve. However, I would presume that it would be easier or more logical to change your amp than the DAC itself hence tube amps, and tube rolling. Most high-tier DACs seem to exhibit the same type of sound, which is to be as transparent as possible as to not color the sound in any way. HOWEVER, there's a matter of speed and energy of the DAC which may be a large factor in the synergy of the system. This is because I personally hated my Gungnir for being way too shouty and explosive; I preferred the more relaxed X-Sabre much more with the HD800, and even the LCD3. However, others like purrin love this explosiveness in sound. This explosiveness/shoutiness isn't necessarily something that represents the FR, but is nonetheless a deciding factor. I believe the better the DAC, the better the peculiarities of the sound gets, such as smoothness, explosiveness, 3D stage, imaging precision, rhythm/prat, realism, dynamic volumes of instruments, blackground, "plankton," micro/macro detail, etc.
  Quote: 





songmic said:


> I don't think you understood my question clearly. I was talking about DAC, not amp. I do agree with you that when it comes to amp, it's a matter of opinion. With HD800, one may prefer a highly neutral and transparent "wire with gain" amp like GS-X, or a warm amp that will color the sound in a favorable way like ZDSE (although I feel the ZDSE does so without sacrificing much detail/resolution).
> 
> What I'm saying is, what about the DAC? DAC's and amps are a whole different story, and while I think an amp can be colored sounding to make the HD800 more enjoyable, the same logic may not apply to the DAC. Because HD800 is a highly transparent window that lets you hear the original sound with brutal honesty, it can also be interpreted that HD800 is a very source-dependent headphone. Also, my philosophy in hi-fi audio has been that the ideal source component is a DAC that simply lets the music through in its purest form, without adding any errors/distortion/colorations; if one wants to add coloration to the sound for musical enjoyment, it should be done in the amp or speakers/headphones section. But this is my opinion, and I wanted to know what other people thinks.
> 
> So I'll ask again. With the HD800, which type of DAC do you guys prefer more?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> I believe it really depends on your other components and what you're trying to achieve. However, I would presume that it would be easier or more logical to change your amp than the DAC itself hence tube amps, and tube rolling. Most high-tier DACs seem to exhibit the same type of sound, which is to be as transparent as possible as to not color the sound in any way. HOWEVER, there's a matter of speed and energy of the DAC which may be a large factor in the synergy of the system. This is because I personally hated my Gungnir for being way too shouty and explosive; I preferred the more relaxed X-Sabre much more with the HD800, and even the LCD3. However, others like purrin love this explosiveness in sound. This explosiveness/shoutiness isn't necessarily something that represents the FR, but is nonetheless a deciding factor.* I believe the better the DAC, the better the peculiarities of the sound gets, such as smoothness, explosiveness, 3D stage, imaging precision, rhythm/prat, realism, dynamic volumes of instruments, blackground, "plankton," micro/macro detail, etc.*


 
   
  +1


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> +1


 
   
  Me two.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## silversurfer616

bourneperfect said:


> Me two.
> 
> -Daniel




Why not.....me too!


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> Why not.....me too!


 
  I wanna play, so...me 2!


----------



## palmfish

Not me... They all sound the same!


----------



## BournePerfect




----------



## RedBull

palmfish said:


> Not me... They all sound the same!




-1


----------



## palmfish

redbull said:


> -1




Your "minus" cancels out Bournes "plus" thus negating both votes.


----------



## RedBull

Hahaha, so where are we now? +3?


----------



## wink

+-+


----------



## longbowbbs

So I am gone at camp for a week at Scout Camp and I come home to find my HD800's NOT ON THEIR RACK 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  My Wife took them for sound board work for a Children's theater performance of Fiddler on the Roof. She is running the sound for the show.
   
  Tevya never sounded so good! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I gave her my HD-25-1 ii's to use for the remainder of the performances.....


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> *I gave her my HD-25-1 ii's to use for the remainder of the performances.....*


 

 Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....

 At least she shares your appreciation for headphones.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  No harm done. There was a brief moment of panic..."Where are my HD800's??!!!" Then I figured it out....I'll have them back tonight. Slumming with the HD650's and the Toxic Cable Silver Poison cables while I wait....


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> No harm done. There was a brief moment of panic..."Where are my HD800's??!!!" Then I figured it out....I'll have them back tonight. *Slumming with the HD650's and the Toxic Cable Silver Poison cables while I wait....*


 

 I hope the wilderness gave you a run for your money on scout camp because you are so very spoilt at home! Especially if that is really your definition of "slumming"....


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It sure did. You have to rough it in the wilderness!
   

  Beyer DT-1350, ACS Custom T1 CIEM's, IPC 7G and Fostex HP-P1....
   
  You make do in the woods..


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> It sure did. You have to rough it in the wilderness!
> 
> 
> Beyer DT-1350, ACS Custom T1 CIEM's, IPC 7G and Fostex HP-P1....
> ...


 

 Now that's just ridiculous.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





   

 When I used to go on cadet camp, I spent the nights sitting round the campfire, under the moon and the stars, listening to each other's stories along with the cicadas, crickets and other fauna....

 Pretty sure that's a better portable rig than yours.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Not me... They all sound the same!


 
  Heard an amp other than your, uh, pc sound card? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Meaning, heard extensively, in your home, in your rig...long enough to determine differences...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## palmfish

bourneperfect said:


> Heard an amp other than your, uh, pc sound card?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




PC soundcard? You mean people listen to music on their computers? That's just crazy talk.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> PC soundcard? You mean people listen to music on their computers? That's just crazy talk.


 
  +1 this isn't 1999.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  We had loons in stereo just off the campsite. They were awesome....


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> +1 this isn't 1999.


 
  Do you have any clue what we were talking about?
   
  -1
   
  Palm-if all amps sound there same-why did you waste money on that glorified soundcard/amp? Just get a used uDac1 for $50 and quite this site. Sorry the point alluded to missed you both...
   
  -Daniel
   
  edit: Also, I was listening to music from my computer in 1999.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Do you have any clue what we were talking about?
> 
> -1
> 
> ...


 
  I was being sarcastic.


----------



## BournePerfect

It seems your sarcasm eluded me lol.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> It seems your sarcasm eluded me lol.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  That's ok. I still listen to music on my computer. 2013 baby!


----------



## BournePerfect

*but not your computer's amp* 
   
  I use my computer to-streams to my SBT>>DP1
   
  -Daniel


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> *but not your computer's amp*
> 
> I use my computer to-streams to my SBT>>DP1
> 
> -Daniel


 
  Haha. That's where this all started. No soundcards!


----------



## palmfish

Relax Bourne, I was being facetious.

I stream FLAC from my PC to my SBT as well


----------



## BournePerfect

*whew*
  I'm always relaxed-just opinionated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Have you tried any USB power supplies (Kingrex etc) for your SBT? I haven't, but there are some glowing reports out there...ya know, another thing to buy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel
   
  But really-what other amps have you 'lived with' for the HD800s? I'm curious, not trying to start something. 
   
  -Daniel


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> PC soundcard? You mean people listen to music on their computers? That's just crazy talk.


 
  I must be crazy then, cause I use my PC soundcard a lot.  Although I did mod it...


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> *whew*
> I'm always relaxed-just opinionated.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  No, I haven't tried any USB power supplies (and I'm not sure what you're referring to - I've heard of upgraded wall warts, but that's about it). I stream via wi-fi in my home to my DAC via TOSLINK and Coax at the moment. Since I don't use the SBT's internal DAC or amplifier, I don't see any benefit in upgrading the wall-wart.
   
  Ive tried a number of amps with the HD 800, but actually owned? Not many.
   
  The amps I have "lived with" along with my HD800 include the Lyr, HA-160, DAC1, Objective2, Essence One Muses, my vintage integrated amps (Carver and Pioneer), and my modern Pioneer AVR's. Additionally, I have spent quality time in my home with the V800/V200 stack.
   
  I have a couple of friends who likely have better hearing than me and they claim to hear subtle differences in "micro detail" from amp to amp. Personally, if I concentrate really hard, I think I might hear what they are talking about, but it's truly a labor to do so - I couldn't do it blind and certainly wouldn't do it while "just listening" to music.
   
  And yes, of course I do hear differences between all of the amps I listed above. I thought the Schiit was too bright (Im told the stock tubes suck), the Burson was most liquid and smooth, the Benchmark the most neutral and articulate, the O2 was a harsher version of the Benchmark, and the Essence One is somewhere between the Burson and Benchmark. My Pioneer SC-25 AVR sounded virtually identical to the V200 to my ears, and even my friend, who is a professional sound recording engineer couldn't hear any difference - although to be fair, he thought he detected superior micro-detail with the Violectric. I couldn't hear what he described after numerous attempts.
   
  I also have a hard time hearing the vague, subjective qualities like air, soundstage, PRaT, etc. and I personally think that a lot of those qualities are simply frequency response variations causing different "false acoutic" cues to be perceived. Maybe I'm wrong there, but it's hard to tell. I also play devil's advocate often because there is a strong tendency for people to use hyperbole when describing the sound they hear from one amp or another, or when comparing. Differences are perceptible to me, but they are rarely "night and day" or of the "I can tell from across the street" variety.
   
  I think my overall opinion is that most amps, if operating within their comfortable power band, are of similar output impedance, and are not purposely designed to sound a "certain way," will basically sound the same - say 90%. It's the last 10% that most of these discussions are focusing on. A 10% that I'm not sure I need to personally worry about - I think my hearing changes more than 10% from day to day...


----------



## BournePerfect

Nice write up palm-no go visit an audiologist! j/k
   
  I do think that the differences between amps/dacs etc-are overstated. But I think part of that is due to small objective differences accounting for much larger subjective opinions-if that makes sense. For instance-I recently acquired a Mjolnir to pair with my DP1/HD800. Out of the box I personally would call it unlistenable. Just way to bright and piercing to me. I couldn't listen for more than 5-10 minutes, then felt great relief once I took the Senns off. It was like this the first three nights of (attempted) listening. Then after 4 days, or 100ish hours of burn in...most of the piercing treble was gone. The bass also finally came to play, and over all the entire spectrum seemed much more coherent. It was still 'slightly' bright up top, but it was just enough for me to really start enjoying the sound without my ears bleeding.
   
  In a nutshell, my I noticed objectively, probably wasn't a ton. But OTOH, that slight treble calming down made a 'huge' difference to my subjective opinion because it made something 'unlistenable', into probably the best ss amp I've heard with the HD800s. My .02.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## palmfish

Yeah, I can see that. The treble was probably annoying enough to distract you from enjoying anything else, then with it tamed, you were able to focus on the entire spectrum. That's my impression of your experience anyways.
   
  How much of that treble taming do you attribute to the amp changing vs. your ears/brain adjusting?


----------



## BournePerfect

100% amp changing. Again I only VERY briefly listened each night for 3 nights as it was just to irritating. I knew people claimed burn in with this amp, but over 3 days it didn't change. I even emailed Jason for an RMA, and he gave me one-but also suggested I keep it a few more days first to see if it changed. It did-right on the 100 hour mark. I still wouldn't call it the best HD800 amp out there-but I do believe it is still a touch bright, and the source will also really come into play.
   
  My point though was more that the 'small' objective change, equaled a 'large' subjective change in this case. Went from unlistenable to pretty darn good. Damn good mids I might add-maybe the best I've heard from ss that wasn't warm and congested to achieve this. Definitely worth a listen-and should sound ridiculous with say an LCD or HD650...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Audiolic

HD800 versus Stax 507 ? What are your thoughts...


----------



## Currawong

Palmfish: It depends on the music you listen to how much a better DAC may be of benefit. I was just listening to 3 DACs ranging between about $700 to $5000 and there were distinct differences between the sound quality of each, but that was using Chesky Binaural recordings. I have plenty of music I like where a $5k DAC I wouldn't find to be of any benefit. That's the whole purpose, IMO, of buying better headphones and other audio gear -- through the higher resolution of the recordings I can appreciate them more.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> 100% amp changing. Again I only VERY briefly listened each night for 3 nights as it was just to irritating. I knew people claimed burn in with this amp, but over 3 days it didn't change. I even emailed Jason for an RMA, and he gave me one-but also suggested I keep it a few more days first to see if it changed. It did-right on the 100 hour mark. I still wouldn't call it the best HD800 amp out there-but I do believe it is still a touch bright, and the source will also really come into play.
> 
> My point though was more that the 'small' objective change, equaled a 'large' subjective change in this case. Went from unlistenable to pretty darn good. Damn good mids I might add-maybe the best I've heard from ss that wasn't warm and congested to achieve this. Definitely worth a listen-and should sound ridiculous with say an LCD or HD650...
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  I'm glad it worked out for you. I had something similar. I originally had my Anedio D1/Mjolnir/HD800 and it sounded good but something was off in the treble. I switched out the dac for a Buffalo III and the change was a huge change for me. I went from using mostly the HE6 because of the treble being off to selling the HE6 since the HD800 rig was all I really needed. The Mjolnir at it's price is imo a bargain if you can find the right setup.


----------



## BournePerfect

Yes-I feel that maybe a slightly rolled off dac (NOS maybe) would be a very nice pairing with the MJ. Say like a Havana>>Mjolnir>>HD800 or something. Could make for a nice bedside rig...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## silversurfer616

Have the Havana with the HD800 and all the cliche negatives about the HD800 I don't hear .
Musical,rich and lots of body!


----------



## M-13

So guys... does the HD800 sound better on the Vahalla or M-stage? Or Lyr perhaps?
   
  Looking for a cheap solution to the picky HD800. Any other recommendations under $600?
   
  Ideally I wish I could go Super-7 or Taboo of course, but looking at cheaper for the moment.


----------



## dukeskd

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> So guys... does the HD800 sound better on the Vahalla or M-stage? Or Lyr perhaps?
> 
> Looking for a cheap solution to the picky HD800. Any other recommendations under $600?
> 
> Ideally I wish I could go Super-7 or Taboo of course, but looking at cheaper for the moment.


 

 Add $300 and get the Auditor, I know it's over budget but its gonna be a lot better than your current choices.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Palmfish: It depends on the music you listen to how much a better DAC may be of benefit. I was just listening to 3 DACs ranging between about $700 to $5000 and there were distinct differences between the sound quality of each, but that was using Chesky Binaural recordings. I have plenty of music I like where a $5k DAC I wouldn't find to be of any benefit. That's the whole purpose, IMO, of buying better headphones and other audio gear -- through the higher resolution of the recordings I can appreciate them more.


 
  +1


----------



## ForsakenArcher

With HD800, you will find a good complimentary phone to your HE-500. Forward, M-13!!


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> Add $300 and get the Auditor, I know it's over budget but its gonna be a lot better than your current choices.


 
  m-Stage is quite remarkable at it price with the HD800. Truly warm and inviting. The Auditor play to the strengths of the HD800 more though-great transparency, detailed, massive soundstage etc. These two amps sound nothing alike-but both play VERY nice with the HD800, that's for sure.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## RedBull

Is it only me that think HD800 is much smoother and lesser grain (in the vocal, probably upper mids) compared to LCD2.1?


----------



## Bolardito

bourneperfect said:


> 100% amp changing. Again I only VERY briefly listened each night for 3 nights as it was just to irritating. I knew people claimed burn in with this amp, but over 3 days it didn't change. I even emailed Jason for an RMA, and he gave me one-but also suggested I keep it a few more days first to see if it changed. It did-right on the 100 hour mark. I still wouldn't call it the best HD800 amp out there-but I do believe it is still a touch bright, and the source will also really come into play.
> 
> My point though was more that the 'small' objective change, equaled a 'large' subjective change in this case. Went from unlistenable to pretty darn good. Damn good mids I might add-maybe the best I've heard from ss that wasn't warm and congested to achieve this. Definitely worth a listen-and should sound ridiculous with say an LCD or HD650...
> 
> -Daniel




I have the Mjolnir paired wih Yulong's D18 and there is no harshness in the treble. However when I was pairing the Mjolnir with Yulong D100 it was almost unlistenable with the HD800 so I think the source plays a very important role..


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





dukeskd said:


> Add $300 and get the Auditor, I know it's over budget but its gonna be a lot better than your current choices.


 
  Thanks. I'll look into that (time for more research)
  Quote: 





forsakenarcher said:


> With HD800, you will find a good complimentary phone to your HE-500. Forward, M-13!!


 
  Forward!
  Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> m-Stage is quite remarkable at it price with the HD800. Truly warm and inviting. The Auditor play to the strengths of the HD800 more though-great transparency, detailed, massive soundstage etc. These two amps sound nothing alike-but both play VERY nice with the HD800, that's for sure.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  Thanks for the details.


----------



## Randomlogic

Hi I'm currently running the Meier Audio Corda Daccord and Corda classic amp.
   
  Just wondering what people's thoughts were on the potential of this setup to drive the HD800?
   
  Cheers


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Is it only me that think HD800 is much smoother and lesser grain (in the vocal, probably upper mids) compared to LCD2.1?


 
  I thought so too. The HD800's don't have any grain. The LCD2's have a slight annoyance in the upper mids as you say, I heard it on certain recordings.


----------



## Sorrodje

I'm very interested too in opinions about meier's gear+ hd800 combo.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Palmfish: It depends on the music you listen to how much a better DAC may be of benefit. I was just listening to 3 DACs ranging between about $700 to $5000 and there were distinct differences between the sound quality of each, but that was using Chesky Binaural recordings. I have plenty of music I like where a $5k DAC I wouldn't find to be of any benefit. That's the whole purpose, IMO, of buying better headphones and other audio gear -- through the higher resolution of the recordings I can appreciate them more.


 
   
  Isn't this related to the resolution of your gear revealing weaknesses in the recording? Seems to me that this is a good case in favor of having multiple headphones, amps, and DACs and picking the chain based on the recording... or using EQ/tone controls. I listen to a wide variety of music with a wide variety of recording quality and tonal balance. Some recordings are truly audiophile (Chesky, Mapleshade, Sheffield Labs, Telarc, etc.) and some are downright nasty with dynamic range compression and poor mastering.
   
  Although you're saying that a high-end DAC is not beneficial with poor recordings, taken further, there is a common stance that high-end (highly resolving) gear actually makes poor recordings sound worse by revealing and highlighting the flaws.
   
  I do enjoy my audiophile recordings at times, but I also enjoy my mainstream redbook pop recordings.


----------



## Girls Generation

Note, "not beneficial" means anything below beneficial, which includes your latter statement.
   
  I do not disagree with you on your first statement. I do rather enjoy listening to my speakers which makes my terribly recorded Korean music sound good. I'd rather not get the most revealing set up of all time because... my library happens to be at least 70% filthy recordings... However, for that 30%, I'd love to, and used to love to, whip out the HD800 and etc. 
  Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Although you're saying that a high-end DAC is not beneficial with poor recordings, taken further, there is a common stance that high-end (highly resolving) gear actually makes poor recordings sound worse by revealing and highlighting the flaws.


----------



## RedBull

lugbug1 said:


> I thought so too. The HD800's don't have any grain. The LCD2's have a slight annoyance in the upper mids as you say, I heard it on certain recordings.




Thanks for the confirmation.
I think T1 doesn't have such grain right?
Btw, why you buy 701 again?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Is it only me that think HD800 is much smoother and lesser grain (in the vocal, probably upper mids) compared to LCD2.1?


 
  No...I am of the same opinion....


----------



## Takeanidea

redbull said:


> Thanks for the confirmation.
> I think T1 doesn't have such grain right?
> Btw, why you buy 701 again?



 
 T1's are revealing in the treble region even compared to the HD800. They are fantastic though. As are the HD800. The LCD2 rev 2's I had but I found them no match sonically compared to the HD800.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Thanks for the confirmation.
> I think T1 doesn't have such grain right?
> Btw, why you buy 701 again?


 
  (haven't heard the T1's mate)
   
  I've always liked the K701/2, this is my third pair. They offer a drier more sterile sound than the HD800's and bigger sound stage believe it or not. Not as deep, but wider. I wanted another phone to test all the vintage gear I'm acquiring at the mo and some vintage amps are just too warm even for the hd800 :O 
   
  The HD800's are of course miles ahead in regards to realism and imaging, but I've yet to hear a better phone than the AKG's with a good synthetic ambient recording. And I do love my late night ambient


----------



## Girls Generation

Uhhh.....
  Quote: 





takeanidea said:


> T1's are revealing in the treble region even compared to the HD800. They are fantastic though. As are the HD800. The LCD2 rev 2's I had but I found them no match sonically compared to the HD800.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Uhhh.....


 
  Yes-the T1s are much brighter than the HD800s imo. At least more annoying in those regions-and I always had the tendency to turn up the T1 to 'fix' it's sound-not a good thing in my book. Loved the mids and drums though...mmm.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## scottiebabie

to my ears, i cant say the T1 are brighter per se but (again to my ears), they sound more extended up top atleast compared to the Senns.
   
  to me, they both have more similarities than differences but the HD800 has a more earthy flavor while the T1 is the airy version. both go deep, both are wide in width & depth & both sound great. yes both have just as much of penchant for sibilance depending on ancillary upstream equipment (esp amp imo).


----------



## BournePerfect

I'm always hesitant with my T1 comments since the 2 I owned sounded absolutely nothing alike. Loved my first one-my second wasn't any better than a Pro 2900, honest. I'd love to get one again, but that experience has kept me from purchasing another. Someday...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I'm always hesitant with my T1 comments since the 2 I owned sounded absolutely nothing alike. Loved my first one-my second wasn't any better than a Pro 2900, honest. I'd love to get one again, but that experience has kept me from purchasing another. Someday...
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  i probably have one of the best ones made then cause mine sounds extremely good and has no issues


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i probably have one of the best ones made then cause mine sounds extremely good and has no issues


 
  +1
   
  Me to..


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Yes-the T1s are much brighter than the HD800s imo. At least more annoying in those regions-and I always had the tendency to turn up the T1 to 'fix' it's sound-not a good thing in my book. Loved the mids and drums though...mmm.
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  You found them much brighter and still wanted to turn them up to fix it's sound?


----------



## BournePerfect

I still regret getting rid of my first one. I bought it from Frank I with tons of hours on it. Let my second one (new from Jan Meier) burn in for a couple of weeks-still never came close. Maybe I had a dud, or maybe the burn in time is a lot longer like a K70x. Oh well.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

btw i think im gonna return the grado ps1000....the hd 800 and t1 far outperform them. the t1 especially. they're also brighter than t1 or hd 800, nothing like the ps1000s i heard the first time, though i guess 5 minutes and reference recordings won't show me their flaws. still undecided but i think they're gonna go.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> btw i think im gonna return the grado ps1000....the hd 800 and t1 far outperform them. the t1 especially. they're also brighter than t1 or hd 800, nothing like the ps1000s i heard the first time, though i guess 5 minutes and reference recordings isn't enough to show me their flaws.


 
   
  Go for the AD2Ks instead...


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





preproman said:


> You found them much brighter and still wanted to turn them up to fix it's sound?


 
   
  I knew I should have expounded further. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Basically the bass was non existent at low volume levels, and it seemed like the T1 didn't come into it's 'own' frequency balance until I turned it up. At that point-yeah the treble was obviously more bothersome. Then again-I never liked any of the Beyers for their treble.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Go for the AD2Ks instead...


 
   
  i think i'm just gonna buy RS1i buy and i think i'm done with headphones for a while. i kinda want to try the HE-6, but wouldn't be able to get a good amp for them, i'd end up with a lyr or something which i know isn't optimal


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I knew I should have expounded further.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Oh yup - sounds like you got a dud.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i think i'm just gonna buy RS1i buy and i think i'm done with headphones for a while. i kinda want to try the HE-6, but wouldn't be able to get a good amp for them, i'd end up with a lyr or something which i know isn't optimal


 
   
  I tried to like Grados.  I tried a few PS1000, PS500, GS1000i RS1is.  I still like the AD2Ks better..  I getting them back soon.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

also still undecided on whether i'll buy RS1i back or not. since the LCD-3 and T1 seem to have less of that forward and rich sound i want, but at the same times, they still have many of the qualities that i do like about them, and of course, are many times better.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> btw i think im gonna return the grado ps1000....the hd 800 and t1 far outperform them. the t1 especially. they're also brighter than t1 or hd 800, nothing like the ps1000s i heard the first time, though i guess 5 minutes and reference recordings won't show me their flaws. still undecided but i think they're gonna go.


 
  Now the only place for you to go is Stax Omega land...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Now the only place for you to go is Stax Omega land...


 
   
  l0l yeah i've been curious about stax sr-007, wondering how they compare to SR-009, but then i just forget about it cause stax is alot of money, especially for the amp.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> l0l yeah i've been curious about stax sr-007, wondering how they compare to SR-009, but then i just forget about it cause stax is alot of money, especially for the amp.


 
  With your kind of disposable income it's definitely possible. I would check out Price Japan. The 007 is like $1950~ and the 727 to drive it is $1300~
   
  I know that's not the 009 + Blue Hawaii, but I think it's damn fine start in the Stax world. That's what I would do if I had the money right now.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> l0l yeah i've been curious about stax sr-007, wondering how they compare to SR-009, but then i just forget about it cause stax is alot of money, especially for the amp.


 
   
  Well everyone in Stax land will tell you how you NEED a BHSE or similar etc. That's not exactly so in my experience. My SR007 MKIs ran via Woo Wee and Taboo MK3 are pushing me towards selling the LCD-3s. That's after I sold the HD800s already.
   
  The last drop might have been tonight. I took a power afternoon nap with the rig playing music through headphones. Turned out wife had quite some fun for a couple of hours and she said this: Great bass with the LCD-3s, but the Stax is really close and that's pretty much it. It's clear the Stax is in a different class. That's what she thought... (She knows how to volume match them as the PWD2 has the digital volume bar and I showed her what the correct numbers are for each headphones).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> With your kind of disposable income it's definitely possible. I would check out Price Japan. The 007 is like $1950~ and the 727 to drive it is $1300~
> 
> I know that's not the 009 + Blue Hawaii, but I think it's damn fine start in the Stax world. That's what I would do if I had the money right now.


 
   
  lol i gotta start saving up for a new car though as well as some other important things. thats why i'm trying to finish my headphone journey soon. i'm pretty happy with my amps, i want to get a WA22 and ZDSE but for now i think i'll keep the ones i got.
   
  hmmm, 3250 isnt bad for a stax setup.......then again, i could also get HE-6 and a decent amp with that.


----------



## rawrster

imo you don't need to spend 6-8k or in that range to enjoy a Stax setup. I have a SRM717 and O2 MK1 and it comes out cheaper than some of the HD800 rigs people have.


----------



## palmfish

I finished building my Crack this morning and I'm really enjoying it today. Definitely a more musical amp than the Essence One I've been using. Bass is meatier for sure, which is the biggest difference - it makes the Essence One sound thin and lifeless on a lot of music. On the other hand, on some music that is recorded warm to begin with, the Crack can sound thick and muddy and the "more neutral" sound of the Essence One is a better match.
   
  Anyways, I am really enjoying it and Im happy to be a tube amp owner now - I never thought I would ever say that again! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Here's my finished amp...

   
  And here's the head-fi corner of my living room with the toys out to play...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> btw i think im gonna return the grado ps1000....the hd 800 and t1 far outperform them. the t1 especially. they're also brighter than t1 or hd 800, nothing like the ps1000s i heard the first time, though i guess 5 minutes and reference recordings won't show me their flaws. still undecided but i think they're gonna go.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I finished building my Crack this morning and I'm really enjoying it today. Definitely a more musical amp than the Essence One I've been using. Bass is meatier for sure, which is the biggest difference - it makes the Essence One sound thin and lifeless on a lot of music. On the other hand, on some music that is recorded warm to begin with, the Crack can sound thick and muddy and the "more neutral" sound of the Essence One is a better match.
> 
> Anyways, I am really enjoying it and Im happy to be a tube amp owner now - I never thought I would ever say that again!
> 
> ...


----------



## palmfish

Im guessing that means you like it?


----------



## BournePerfect

You're coming around, Palm! Ha. You'll be eyeing a ZDSE before you know it. 
   
  -Daniel


----------



## palmfish

bourneperfect said:


> You're coming around, Palm! Ha. You'll be eyeing a ZDSE before you know it.
> 
> -Daniel




Nah, it doesnt fit with my home's shabby chique decor...:rolleyes:


----------



## BournePerfect

I always wanted to try a Crack/SB to see how close it would come to my ZDSE, but never got a chance. I find that if I'm happy with my tube rig-I tend to focus on the next area, be it a dac upgrade, better ss amp, etc...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## RedBull

longbowbbs said:


> No...I am of the same opinion....




Good, that means my hearing is normal 



takeanidea said:


> T1's are revealing in the treble region even compared to the HD800. They are fantastic though. As are the HD800. The LCD2 rev 2's I had but I found them no match sonically compared to the HD800.




Ya, and T1 is champion in soundstage depth too. I never heard any headphone has better depth than T1.
T1 sounds bright until paired with matching amp.
I agree, LCD2 has no sonic advantage over HD800.



lugbug1 said:


> (haven't heard the T1's mate)
> 
> I've always liked the K701/2, this is my third pair. They offer a drier more sterile sound than the HD800's and bigger sound stage believe it or not. Not as deep, but wider. I wanted another phone to test all the vintage gear I'm acquiring at the mo and some vintage amps are just too warm even for the hd800 :O
> 
> The HD800's are of course miles ahead in regards to realism and imaging, but I've yet to hear a better phone than the AKG's with a good synthetic ambient recording. And I do love my late night ambient




Then you should try T1  but don't be too quickly let down if you happened to listen to bad pairing. It sound truly wonderful out of good match. They are as picky as HD800.
I believe you  even my AD700 has wider soundstage than HD800, believe it or not 



preproman said:


> Go for the AD2Ks instead...




+1 AD2000 is really special (except for fit), the vocal there is forward and beautiful.
DG, if you like forward presentation, this could be it.


----------



## RedBull

bourneperfect said:


> You're coming around, Palm! Ha. You'll be eyeing a ZDSE before you know it.
> 
> -Daniel




Nah, all amps sound similar ;P


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Then you should try T1
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  WORD! ppl who dumps on the T1 hasnt heard it at its best (IMO ofcos). while one can certainly prefer the HD800, the T1s certainly not inferior. YMMV


----------



## philo50

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> WORD! ppl who dumps on the T1 hasnt heard it at its best (IMO ofcos). while one can certainly prefer the HD800, the T1s certainly not inferior. YMMV


 
  +1


----------



## Eee Pee

Looks good p fish!
   
  Time to buy more tubes!


----------



## palmfish

eee pee said:


> Looks good p fish!
> 
> Time to buy more tubes!




Way ahead of you buddy!


----------



## RedBull

preproman said:


> I tried to like Grados.  I tried a few PS1000, PS500, GS1000i RS1is.  I still like the AD2Ks better..  I getting them back soon.




Have you tried AD2KX prepo?


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Or we're both out in left field together!


----------



## RedBull

scottiebabie said:


> WORD! ppl who dumps on the T1 hasnt heard it at its best (IMO ofcos). while one can certainly prefer the HD800, the T1s certainly not inferior. YMMV




My best experience with T1 is with Leben and the new Centrance balance portable amp, M8, I think the name is. T1 has quality that HD800 doesn't have.
That's said, if I have to chose one, HD800 it is.


----------



## BournePerfect

Who was dumping on the T1?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## RedBull

longbowbbs said:


> Or we're both out in left field together!




3 of us, with lugbug too. hahaha


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





redbull said:


> My best experience with T1 is with Leben and the new Centrance balance portable amp, M8, I think the name is. T1 has quality that HD800 doesn't have.
> That's said, if I have to chose one, HD800 it is.


 
   
  yes to my ears, the T1s has an airy super extended high end thats amazingly quick & detailed. but i can understand why u would choose HD800 (if u had to ofcos). i have the same thought each time i debate if i should keep ONE to rule them all but then i listen to them & i honestly cant choose!
  Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Who was dumping on the T1?
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  lols. figure of speech bud. i mean those that gives up on the T1 or proclaim them harsh, etc etc. fwiw, i coulda recalled not long ago that there were more than a few (well respected too i mite add) headfiers who found the HD800 thin & lack bottom end...neither of which i hear.


----------



## BournePerfect

Thanks bud. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd still love to own a T1 that sounded like my first-but again I'm not ready to take that chance that I get another 'dud', mismatched drivers pair, etc. I've owned 3 different HD800s now-and they've all sounded identical to my ears.
   
  BTW, anyone know if Jan still overs a combo rate with the T1 and one of his amps?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## scottiebabie

whatever amp u go with, me thinks tubes are the way to go esp for driving both HD800 & T1. its been my experience that the T1 is even pickier than the Senn.  i wouldnt be too concerned with trying out a good speaker integrated amp (with headout) as theres much more variety & even better deals to be had.
   
  i did & i think i hit the jackpot. this is probably my end game amp unless i can convince the missus to "allow" me to try out electrostatics.
   
  fwiw, another headfier found his end game amp with a Luxman SQ-N10 (class tubes ofcos). it even beats his full complement of the highly rated Decware stuff!


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Have you tried AD2KX prepo?


 
   
   
  Yep - Sold it.  Going back to the original AD2K..


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Yep - Sold it.  Going back to the original AD2K..


 
   
  I know it's a bit off-topic, but could you explain the sound signature of ATH-AD2K, ATH-AD2KX and their differences? I'm particularly interested because I have a ZDSE driving HD800, and I read that AD2K is a really good pairing with the ZDSE. Though I'm sure HD800 would best it in imaging and soundstage, are there certain merits to the AD2K or AD2KX that makes them good complements to a HD800? Also, do you think they are better than HD600/650?


----------



## preproman

Yes - I like the original better than the HD600/650s and the new AD2KX.  
   
  The AD2K is only headphone I didn't really want to sell.  but I had to try out the newer model. It's a more technical headphone.  I think they are shooting for the Reference level. But it doesn't compete at the reference level IMO - and I don't need another reference level dynamic headphone anyway.  
   
  They took away what I liked best about the AD2Ks THE MIDS..  
   
  Really, I like this headphone as much as all my others.  I'm coming to get you back babies...


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I finished building my Crack this morning and I'm really enjoying it today.
> Here's my finished amp...


 
  Nice work. Must be really satisfying knowing that you built it too.


----------



## RedBull

preproman said:


> Yep - Sold it.  Going back to the original AD2K..




Yes, yes, the mids! +1


----------



## knightboy140

I'd just like to say that I have a chinese dac/amp combo called the kkmaster. It has a balanced out and it is absolutely amazing with the hd800s especially for the price


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





knightboy140 said:


> I'd just like to say that I have a chinese dac/amp combo called the kkmaster. It has a balanced out and it is absolutely amazing with the hd800s especially for the price


 
  What other amps have you compared it to with the HD800? Thanks.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## knightboy140

bifrost/wa3+ with gec tubes. Personally I thought it was a bit too bright. But after experimenting over and over again, I realized that it was the bifrost that was making the hd800s a tad too bright. So I went with this. And it just wows me. So my current setup is a audio gd DI--->kkmaster-->hd800s.


----------



## preproman

Is this it?


----------



## knightboy140

yup thats it


----------



## knightboy140

http://img04.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i4/52546416/T2AIhDXdxbXXXXXXXX_!!52546416.jpg 
  Pick of the inside if you're interested


----------



## brunk

Just ordered the HD-800 and will be joining the club on Friday! I am going to put in a 4-pin XLR on the stock cable and run it out of my Mjolnir until i receive my BH Crack + Speedball. Plus, I'll be fully upgrading the Crack with film caps and solid silver signal wire etc. Good times ahead!
   
  Anything i should know before re-terminating the cable by chance?


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i probably have one of the best ones made then cause mine sounds extremely good and has no issues


 
   
  Quote: 





preproman said:


> +1
> 
> Me to..


 
  Yep same here, and i know me and DG have serials that are close together. Whew...


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





brunk said:


> Just ordered the HD-800 and will be joining the club on Friday! I am going to put in a 4-pin XLR on the stock cable and run it out of my Mjolnir until i receive my BH Crack + Speedball. Plus, I'll be fully upgrading the Crack with film caps and solid silver signal wire etc. Good times ahead!
> 
> Anything i should know before re-terminating the cable by chance?


 
  Only that it sounds like a good plan! And you sound like you know what you're doing. 
   
  Welcome to the house


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Only that it sounds like a good plan! And you sound like you know what you're doing.
> 
> Welcome to the house


 
  Thanks, glad to be here!


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> Are you kidding? I'd willingly wait a decade and pay thousands just to get my custom fuschia coloured amp. Although maybe I should consider cerulean (I hear it's in season atm) but you could never go wrong with a nice chartreuse or canary yellow.
> 
> AMP COLOUR MAKES A DIFFERENCE.


 
  I don't like colored amps because they're... well... colored sounding


----------



## sp3llv3xit

May I join the club?


----------



## FlySweep

^ ^fantastic photos ^^
   
  Love the B&W work..


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> ^ ^fantastic photos ^^
> 
> Love the B&W work..


 

 Thanks.


----------



## knights

sp3llv3xit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Welcome to the club Bryan!  nice photos...


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Quote: 





knights said:


> Welcome to the club Bryan!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   


 Thanks, Jay.


----------



## songmic

My HD800 is numbered 9XXX. I understand some of the latest versions are 2XXXX. That being said, could anyone who has experience with more than one HD800 unit tell me whether my unit is an old unit that sounds different from the later model? I've read that HD800 underwent at least one revision in sound, and I'd like to know if I can improve my listening experience by selling my HD800 and buying a newer, higher-numbered unit. If the revision took place before 9XXX and never again, then there would be no difference between mine and the ones that came afterwards.


----------



## Stalker81598

songmic said:


> My HD800 is numbered 9XXX. I understand some of the latest versions are 2XXXX. That being said, could anyone who has experience with more than one HD800 unit tell me whether my unit is an old unit that sounds different from the later model? I've read that HD800 underwent at least one revision in sound, and I'd like to know if I can improve my listening experience by selling my HD800 and buying a newer, higher-numbered unit. If the revision took place before 9XXX and never again, then there would be no difference between mine and the ones that came afterwards.



 
 I got mine new a couple months ago and it is numbered 12XXX.


----------



## hekeli

Quote: 





songmic said:


> My HD800 is numbered 9XXX. I understand some of the latest versions are 2XXXX. That being said, could anyone who has experience with more than one HD800 unit tell me whether my unit is an old unit that sounds different from the later model? I've read that HD800 underwent at least one revision in sound, and I'd like to know if I can improve my listening experience by selling my HD800 and buying a newer, higher-numbered unit. If the revision took place before 9XXX and never again, then there would be no difference between mine and the ones that came afterwards.


 

 Lets not crap this thread.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/646871/new-hd-800-very-different-than-the-old-hd-800
   
  (several reputable testers have not found any difference)


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Quote: 





songmic said:


> My HD800 is numbered 9XXX. I understand some of the latest versions are 2XXXX. That being said, could anyone who has experience with more than one HD800 unit tell me whether my unit is an old unit that sounds different from the later model? I've read that HD800 underwent at least one revision in sound, and I'd like to know if I can improve my listening experience by selling my HD800 and buying a newer, higher-numbered unit. If the revision took place before 9XXX and never again, then there would be no difference between mine and the ones that came afterwards.


 
   
  Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> I got mine new a couple months ago and it is numbered 12XXX.


 


 Is the new batch tweaked to sound less bright?


----------



## James-uk

I still don't get the 'bright ' thing when it comes to the 800s . They sound like the recording and that's it. Nothing added nothing missing. I've got a lot of albums that sound very warm and dark on the 800s . Just reminds me that they don't have a sound signature as such. If I wanted to listen to the equipment I would buy different headphones.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





james-uk said:


> I still don't get the 'bright ' thing when it comes to the 800s . They sound like the recording and that's it. Nothing added nothing missing. I've got a lot of albums that sound very warm and dark on the 800s . Just reminds me that they don't have a sound signature as such. If I wanted to listen to the equipment I would buy different headphones.


 
  +1 
   
  I recently re-aquired some K701's and my HD800's sound like HD650's in comparison. (only in brightness)
   
  That said, I do know there is a tweak in the treble top. It's there but its not nearly as pronounced as some peeps exclaim. It helps bring out detail, but I've never heard them sound harsh or too bright. This is a badly beaten up deceased horse of a subject, but a subject that will always be of consideration with these phones. Its a shame because If I'd never read about the peak I really wouldn't have noticed it. Or gave it a second thought..


----------



## FraGGleR

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> +1
> 
> I recently re-aquired some K701's and my HD800's sound like HD650's in comparison. (only in brightness)
> 
> That said, I do know there is a tweak in the treble top. It's there but its not nearly as pronounced as some peeps exclaim. It helps bring out detail, but I've never heard them sound harsh or too bright. This is a badly beaten up deceased horse of a subject, but a subject that will always be of consideration with these phones. Its a shame because If I'd never read about the peak I really wouldn't have noticed it. Or gave it a second thought..


 
  It was a sharpness to the treble that was pronounced enough that I would not have kept the HD800s had I not been able to mod them.  I listened to 3 pairs of HD800s (my own modded one, plus two stock ones) at a meet recently (out of outstanding gear) and still found the unmodded ones nearly unlistenable.  Not my imagination and real enough for my ears.  That said, the mod is cheap, easy and makes them the perfect headphone IMO.


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





fraggler said:


> It was a sharpness to the treble that was pronounced enough that I would not have kept the HD800s had I not been able to mod them.  I listened to 3 pairs of HD800s (my own modded one, plus two stock ones) at a meet recently (out of outstanding gear) and still found the unmodded ones nearly unlistenable.  Not my imagination and real enough for my ears.  That said, the mod is cheap, easy and makes them the perfect headphone IMO.


 
  New HD-800 owner here. Mind sharing the info/links? Thanks!


----------



## skeptic

There's a video and everything: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod
   
  Note that there is now a new version of the mod involving shelf liner if you google around, but I haven't tried that.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





skeptic said:


> Note that there is now a new version of the mod involving shelf liner if you google around, but I haven't tried that.


 
   
   
  I have.  Took it back out.  Too far of a deviation, in my opinion.  Just the Creatology foam itself is pretty much all I needed/wanted.


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





skeptic said:


> There's a video and everything: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod
> 
> Note that there is now a new version of the mod involving shelf liner if you google around, but I haven't tried that.


 
  Thanks for the link i'll have to do some searching for the update i guess.


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





songmic said:


> My HD800 is numbered 9XXX. I understand some of the latest versions are 2XXXX. That being said, could anyone who has experience with more than one HD800 unit tell me whether my unit is an old unit that sounds different from the later model? I've read that HD800 underwent at least one revision in sound, and I'd like to know if I can improve my listening experience by selling my HD800 and buying a newer, higher-numbered unit. If the revision took place before 9XXX and never again, then there would be no difference between mine and the ones that came afterwards.


 
  I replied in two different threads in the past about trying out 8 different HD800's in one session and not hearing any substantial difference. They are all manufactured in identical fashion and if they have ever been updated; it would of been done before S.N 5000 going by a couple of early adopters' opinions (that I could not test).
   
  Sennheiser is the type of company that does it right the first time and wouldn't dare tweak their flagship to create doubt in their customers. They've only done it with the HD600/650 because the headphones were outdated, and the silk mesh would degrade with time.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> I replied in two different threads in the past about trying out 8 different HD800's in one session and not hearing any substantial difference. They are all manufactured in identical fashion and if they have ever been updated; it would of been done before S.N 5000 going by a couple of early adopters' opinions (that I could not test).
> 
> Sennheiser is the type of company that does it right the first time and wouldn't dare tweak their flagship to create doubt in their customers. They've only done it with the HD600/650 because the headphones were outdated, and the silk mesh would degrade with time.


 
  Agreed. I've owned 3 HD800s (14xxx, 17xxx, 19xxx iirc) and they've all sounded the same. Also, these headphones didn't seem to burn in out the the box for me-at least not substantially like others I've heard.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Agreed. I've owned 3 HD800s (14xxx, 17xxx, 19xxx iirc) and they've all sounded the same. Also, these headphones didn't seem to burn in out the the box for me-at least not substantially like others I've heard.
> 
> -Daniel


 

 Excuse me, sir.  But what exactly did you mean by " didn't seem to burn in out the the box" ? 
   
  Are they or are they NOT burned in out of the box?  Do you mean they DIDN'T require burning in?  Or that Sennheiser DIDN'T burn them in before boxing? 

 Thanks.


----------



## RedBull

I tried sn < 1000 I loaned from Sennheiser a while after the first time they launched it. Lower treble is quite much stronger than mine now sn 19xxx.


----------



## demon321

What is the best aftermarket cable for HD800?
  I have try Cardas Clear and Black Dragon but i think both are lack something.
  It would be good if it can combine best trait of them both.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





sp3llv3xit said:


> Excuse me, sir.  But what exactly did you mean by " didn't seem to burn in out the the box" ?
> 
> Are they or are they NOT burned in out of the box?  Do you mean they DIDN'T require burning in?  Or that Sennheiser DIDN'T burn them in before boxing?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  Sorry I didn't make that clear. I meant to say that none of my HD800s (all bought new) didn't seem to change much with burn in over time-unlike a number of other headphones I had.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## songmic

Most people here seem to own HD800's numbered above 10,000 and claim there is no difference. A few folks who own very early models say there is a difference between the early ones and the ones that come above 10,000. So I suspect there was a revision somewhere along the way.
   
  My HD800 is serial 9xxxx, and since it's somewhere in between, I have no idea whether mine predates the revision or came after it. It's quite frustrating as I don't have another HD800 to compare to see whether I should sell off my HD800 and buy a relatively newer one, if the "revised" HD800 indeed sounds better overall as people who have heard the difference claim so.
   
  If anyone's compared HD800's in the 8-9000-ish and 10,000+, could you please tell me if my 9xxx HD800 should sound just as the same as the later series, or that a revision took place after my HD800 and that I would benefit by replacing my HD800 with a higher number unit?


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





demon321 said:


> What is the best aftermarket cable for HD800?
> I have try Cardas Clear and Black Dragon but i think both are lack something.
> It would be good if it can combine best trait of them both.


 
   
  Sounds like you think the HD800 is lacking something and are mistaking it for a cable issue.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Most people here seem to own HD800's numbered above 10,000 and claim there is no difference. A few folks who own very early models say there is a difference between the early ones and the ones that come above 10,000. So I suspect there was a revision somewhere along the way.
> 
> My HD800 is serial 9xxxx, and since it's somewhere in between, I have no idea whether mine predates the revision or came after it. It's quite frustrating as I don't have another HD800 to compare to see whether I should sell off my HD800 and buy a relatively newer one, if the "revised" HD800 indeed sounds better overall as people who have heard the difference claim so.
> 
> If anyone's compared HD800's in the 8-9000-ish and 10,000+, could you please tell me if my 9xxx HD800 should sound just as the same as the later series, or that a revision took place after my HD800 and that I would benefit by replacing my HD800 with a higher number unit?


 
  There are no differences whatsoever. I've heard half a dozen pairs (mine are 41XX) and sound the exact same as a 20 000 pair. I did hear some rumblings that the pre-1000 HD800s were different. But that is unconfirmed and likely just rumour.


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> There are no differences whatsoever. I've heard half a dozen pairs (mine are 41XX) and sound the exact same as a 20 000 pair. I did hear some rumblings that the pre-1000 HD800s were different. But that is unconfirmed and likely just rumour.


 
   
  Thanks for the confirmation, Pete! Now I can di... I mean, live in peace.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





songmic said:


> Thanks for the confirmation, Pete! Now I can di... I mean, live in peace.


----------



## spixder

Quick question guys, is there much change going from a meier corda concerto (SS amp) to something like a wa6se? Thanks


----------



## Maxvla

WA6SE isn't a great amp for the HD800, IMO. It might be better than the Concerto, but not worth buying for an HD800 pairing.


----------



## silversurfer616

Have an under 1000 serial number and had several different configurations of gear going with it.
And guess what?
The HD800 always sounds different depending on the rest of the system.
We are all on a sort of journey here and over time most of us have developed educated ears and couldn't care less about measurements,graphs etc.
If it sounds good to our ears it is good!
So,with every change in your system the HD800 will let you hear it.
Which means comparing the sound of a headphone like the HD800 is rather moot as it sounds the same only for people with the same system.
And the better your individual components and their synergy with each other,the better the HD800......as their sonic potential seems limitless!
Which brings us back to the journey......off we go!


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





demon321 said:


> What is the best aftermarket cable for HD800?
> I have try Cardas Clear and Black Dragon but i think both are lack something.
> It would be good if it can combine best trait of them both.


 
  I just ordered some DIY Cardas cable from PCX (20% off site-wide btw, great if you want connectors) along with their HD-800 connectors, so I'll let you know how it goes. Maybe someone has used this wire before?


----------



## songmic

I picked up an HD650 in mint condition today for $300, as a complementary headphone to HD800. While it doesn't have the ultra-clear transparency, pinpoint imaging and wide soundstage of HD800, it has a beautiful, warm, lush tone and smooth treble that makes music very enjoyable. Sacriligeous as it may sound, I think I like HD650 more than HD800 for brightly recorded pop/rock songs, which makes up nearly 50% of my music collection.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





brunk said:


> I just ordered some DIY Cardas cable from PCX (20% off site-wide btw, great if you want connectors) along with their HD-800 connectors, so I'll let you know how it goes. Maybe someone has used this wire before?


 
   
  I think cardas is litz wire, so you need some means of stripping the enamel.  I'm just working on a litz cable myself (rectangular section cotton jacketed litz), I'm stripping the enamel using a cheapie Ebay solder pot.  If you go that route I found that it is possible to melt the copper wire if the pot is too hot.  So far the project is not so straightforward, 6 hours in and I'm probably just over half done.  Lots of unforeseen things like wires not fitting into connector etc...  Hopefully things will be faster when I build interconnects with the same wire.  Good luck with your build.


----------



## ForsakenArcher

@songmic,
  I also prefer listening to most Anime OSTs with HD600 to with HD800. Some tracks really dont need HD800.


----------



## spixder

Don't you find that the majority of anime tracks are super bright, ie not fitting for hd800's unless you've got some crazy gear that can offset/roll off the treble. Good thing i don't tend to listen to them else it'll be like needles in ears.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> WA6SE isn't a great amp for the HD800, IMO. It might be better than the Concerto, but not worth buying for an HD800 pairing.


 
  Depends on the tubes. It can swing from ok to wowwie!


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> WA6SE isn't a great amp for the HD800, IMO. It might be better than the Concerto, but not worth buying for an HD800 pairing.


 


 In your opinion or experience, which amp pairs best with the HD800?


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





songmic said:


> I picked up an HD650 in mint condition today for $300, as a complementary headphone to HD800. While it doesn't have the ultra-clear transparency, pinpoint imaging and wide soundstage of HD800, it has a beautiful, warm, lush tone and smooth treble that makes music very enjoyable. Sacriligeous as it may sound, I think I like HD650 more than HD800 for brightly recorded pop/rock songs, which makes up nearly 50% of my music collection.


 
   
  +1
  HD650 is still special for me, at times, I even prefer HD650 to LCD 2.1. 
  I think vocal is more beautiful with HD650 than with LCD 2.1


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





redbull said:


> +1
> HD650 is still special for me, at times, I even prefer HD650 to LCD 2.1.
> I think vocal is more beautiful with HD650 than with LCD 2.1


 
   
  and best with LCD-3


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





redbull said:


> +1
> HD650 is still special for me, at times, I even prefer HD650 to LCD 2.1.
> I think vocal is more beautiful with HD650 than with LCD 2.1


 
  I really wanted to like my (now long sold) HD650s. But I found them too laid back and the treble too pushed back. I'd take the LCD-2s or HD800s over them (the HD600s as well). Some really like them and I wish I could too.


----------



## zigy626

Quote: 





songmic said:


> I picked up an HD650 in mint condition today for $300, as a complementary headphone to HD800. While it doesn't have the ultra-clear transparency, pinpoint imaging and wide soundstage of HD800, it has a beautiful, warm, lush tone and smooth treble that makes music very enjoyable. Sacriligeous as it may sound, I think I like HD650 more than HD800 for brightly recorded pop/rock songs, which makes up nearly 50% of my music collection.


 
  +1 
  Although I am not really into Pop but I once tried listening to some Madonna and it was unbearable on the HD800. Too bright. I get your point the HD650 are a really good pair of headphones. Try listening to some Jazz/Fusion on the HD800 oh man what an amazing experience. Chick Corea Elektric Band on HD800 just amazing. The more I listen to the HD800 the more I appreciate having them. On some tracks it just hits the spot and the experience is one of sheer delight. I am spending so much time hunting and buying more music to play on these awesome headphones.


----------



## spixder

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Depends on the tubes. It can swing from ok to wowwie!


 
   

 I'm all ears...
   
  Atm am not too keen on shelling out 2k+ on amps, 1k+ is my current limit if i can justify a decent increase over my current ss.


----------



## FatmanSize48

I've been enjoying my HD800 for a while now, and it seems they have drawn my close relationship with my previously beloved 4.Ai to an end. Though they may have a similar sound signature, the 4.Ai comes nowhere close in terms of detail retrieval and sounds "mushy" in comparison. I am looking to upgrade within six months and have been considering several different CIEMs. Right now the Unique Melody Miracle and 1964 Ears V6 stand at the top of my list--have any of you guys been able to find CIEMs comparable to the almighty HD800?


----------



## FatmanSize48

I would like to add I have read several CIEM review threads/articles, but would like input from fellow HD800 owners.


----------



## palmfish

I got to try the AKG K3003 a few weeks ago and was blown away by their detail and spaciousness. I thought they sounded very reminiscent of the HD800.


----------



## FatmanSize48

Last year I was able to demo the HD800 and K3003 side by side--let's just say I wasn't impressed. On second thought, I now remember that the same tube amp was used to drive them both, probably causing out impedance mismatch. I'll get out and try out a pair of K3003s if I can find a pair in LA.


----------



## persona1138

So after being delayed by UPS & Sennheiser (but - to their credit - not ALO Audio for their cables and Woo Audio for their incredibly sturdy HPS-R headphone stand), I've finally gotten my entire system, and I am so incredibly thrilled.  I've got my Sennheiser HD 800's, the Senn HDVD 800 amp, the ALO Audio Green Line with 4-pin XLR attachment (which is well worth the purchase over Senn HD 800's included 1/4" standard cable when using the HDVD 800... The standard 1/4" cable doesn't compare), AudioQuest NRG-X3 10' power cable (I needed the extra length for my setup, and my HDVD 800 didn't include a power cable... Odd), and AudioQuest USB Digital Audio Forest cable (yes, it's overkill, but - at this point - might as well keep my system and its cables top end)... I'm also using Amarra for digital playback. Anyway, this system is more than I could have ever asked for.
   
  This combination is incredibly fast, detailed, transparent, and - for me - incredibly absorbing.  I understand and appreciate the desire for that warm tube sound... However, I'm a film and television editor and - when given the choice - I prefer a more "transparent" sound (we can argue all day long whether a tube or solid state sounds more "natural," I know)... I'm using my headphones and amp for both personal and professional reasons.  It's a ridiculous cliche - especially posting on a site like this - but I've tested the HD 800's before and never quite experienced my favorite albums like this before now.  If you want to hear your music (and other audio) as they were intended by the source, give the HD 800 and HDVD 800 combo a try.
   
  I'm currently listening to my favorite album of all time - Pink Floyd's "The Wall" (yes, "Dark Side" is more consistent, but "The Wall" reaches for such greater heights, in my opinion) - an ALAC from the 2011 Re-Mastered CD - and it's glorious.  The last time I was this affected by this album was when I was 4 years old and asked my folks to play "the baby song" (Track 1 "In The Flesh?" of "The Wall"... which ends with a plane crash and a baby crying.  I was a strange child.)  Listening to this has been so incredible, and mostly, I just wanted to post my reaction to say thank you to the folks who suggested my new system - and who expressed their opinions of others...
   
  The truth is, music (and audio in general) is such a subjective experience... But whether you agree with my preferences or not, I just wanted to say thanks to you all for your valuable experience in evaluating my decision. I love it.  It's one thing to be able to experience a pair of headphones in the store or from a friend... But there's so many variables and combinations of equipment, it becomes something of an obsession (and a fun one at that) to find the perfect one... And all of you, your experience, and insight made it possible.  Thank you so much,


----------



## FatmanSize48

Wonderful impressions. It's not cliche to say you have been hearing your music like you never have before--you literally have ever heard music in quite the same way 

 Quick question while I still have you: what do you mean when you say the stock cable doesn't even compare to the ALO one? I understand you needed a balanced cable to use with the HDV but what else is better? Isn't the stock cable $300 for a factory replacement? I only ask because I am also soon to purchase an aftermarket cable (for purely ergonomic and aesthetic reasons) and am wondering what I should expect.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> Wonderful impressions. It's not cliche to say you have been hearing your music like you never have before--you literally have ever heard music in quite the same way
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I can't speak for the ALO cable but my Moon Audio Black Dragon, which uses a pure copper conductor as opposed to SPC, noticabely reduces the treble peak around 6-7KHz without losing any detail or soundstage. It's also built a lot sturdier than the stock cable.


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *FatmanSize48* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I've been enjoying my HD800 for a while now, and it seems they have drawn my close relationship with my previously beloved 4.Ai to an end. Though they may have a similar sound signature, the 4.Ai comes nowhere close in terms of detail retrieval and sounds "mushy" in comparison. I am looking to upgrade within six months and have been considering several different CIEMs. Right now the Unique Melody Miracle and 1964 Ears V6 stand at the top of my list--have any of you guys been able to find CIEMs comparable to the almighty HD800?


 
   
  The JH13Pro Freqphase.  It's absolutely _phenomenal_... and very much on par with the HD800 when it comes to resolution, clarity, tonal accuracy, frequency bandwidth, soundstage, imaging, and all that.  I've owned the UM Miracle, Heir 4.A.. among (many) other custom & universal IEMs, btw.. IME, the JH13 is head and shoulders above every single one of them.  In fact, the JH13 has single handedly ended my (seemingly never-ending) search for an IEM that delivers everything I want in an IEM in terms of technical ability and a neutral (but not boring/sterile/clinical) signature.  I've owned a ton of IEMs and still anticipate listening to/reviewing them, but I don't have the desire to buy a single one for the foreseeable future.. thanks to the JH13.  It's the only IEM that I would (heaven forbid) actually part with the HD800 over.  It brings me that level of technical satisfaction and musical enjoyment.. in some ways, it's a better investment than the HD800 (for around the same price) since the JH13 doesn't demand the kind of upstream investment that the HD800 requires (to get the most out of it).


----------



## persona1138

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> Wonderful impressions. It's not cliche to say you have been hearing your music like you never have before--you literally have ever heard music in quite the same way
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'll say this for the ALO Green Cable with the 4-pin XLR addition (at least, when used with my HDVD 800)... The 1/4" stock cable that came with my Sennheiser HD 800's sounds smaller in comparison.  Now, the thing I love (and find amusing) about audiophiles is that we're willing to spend $378 (+tax for the Green Cable and 4-pin XLR... Plus an additional $149 if you want the Green Line extension to give you - rather than 6 feet in length with the standard Green Line cable - an extra 4 feet [equal to the 10 foot 1/4" plug cord that comes with an HD 800]) for a minor but still noticeable difference in sound quality.  There is an appreciable difference between the standard 1/4" cable and the Green Cable w/ 4-pin XLR... Bass is deeper, the treble is clearer, and the sound stage (at least, to my ears) seems more pronounced and separated.
   
  ...The question is, is it worth $378 (or $527 with the extension cable, not including tax) worth the difference?  For my part, I've been going for a pure reference system with as much transparency as I can get.  I'm a film and television editor and while many HD 800 users want to temper the headphone's so-called "brighter" qualities... I personally find it has the right balance (when paired with the right amp... I highly recommend the HDVD 800 for an even, transparent sound)... I prefer when I can hear recordings for either personal or professional reasons as they were initially intended to be heard.  And for that purpose alone, I think that the ALO Audio Green Line cable was worth the price of admission.  It instantly elevated the quality, sound stage, and balance of my HD 800 headphones... Which are notoriously finicky. The standard cable is totally fine... The Green Line cable is way better (I haven't yet tried it with the 1/4" plug addition... I'm speaking solely about the 4-pin XLR, at least when paired with an HDVD 800 amp... Although, I have a 1/4" plug addition on order for use at work, and I have a sneaky suspicion that it will also sound better than the stock cable.  I also would prefer to not continually replace the Green Line cable jacks into my headphones with the stock cables just to get a 1/4" plug.)
   
  One of the advantages - for my part - is that I'm taking my headphones between work and home.  My HDVD 800 stays at my place, but the mixing boards at work have 1/4" jacks.  With the Green Line cable, I can just swap out the connectors to whatever device I want to connect my headphones to.  It seemed like the most versatile but (relatively) affordable cable.  I looked at some other XLR third-party cables for the HD 800 and most went for $600 or more... And didn't include the option to swap out the plugs like the Green Line cable.  I can't speak to Cardas cables or most others - which I understand are excellent - but what I wanted was a high-end yet affordable cable, and the Green Line happened to also fit my needs with its flexibility of plug additions.
   
  Anyway, long story short, I think the Green Line cable w/ 4-pin XLR addition sounds appreciably better than the standard HD 800 1/4" plug cable (at least, when using it with my HDVD 800).
   
  Hope that helps and sorry to trouble your wallet, man.


----------



## drez

After 12 hours of blood sweat and tears, its done:


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





drez said:


> After 12 hours of blood sweat and tears, its done:


 
  Well done! Impressions please


----------



## RedBull

dubstep girl said:


> and best with LCD-3




Hmm, is it? I tried LCD3, but the vocal is less forward than 650 (which I prefer). But I'll try again.
Now I am seriously eyeing Koss ESP950. Have you tried before?



macedonianhero said:


> I really wanted to like my (now long sold) HD650s. But I found them too laid back and the treble too pushed back. I'd take the LCD-2s or HD800s over them (the HD600s as well). Some really like them and I wish I could too.




Maybe you tried 650 the black screen one? Somehow I think my 650 treble is not too dull it actually have more treble presence compared to HD800.


----------



## RedBull

brunk said:


> Well done! Impressions please


 

I'll cry if after 12 hrs it doesn't sound good


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Hmm, is it? I tried LCD3, but the vocal is less forward than 650 (which I prefer). But I'll try again.
> Now I am seriously eyeing Koss ESP950. Have you tried before?
> Maybe you tried 650 the black screen one? Somehow I think my 650 treble is not too dull it actually have more treble presence compared to HD800.


 


 I am really curious about the white screened 650.  Just sold my HD650 this afternoon.  That thing is dark.  Veiled is a euphemism.  It is covered under a black comforter.


----------



## RedBull

At least my white screen one has sufficient treble splash but zero vocal brightess (upper mid glare, grain).


----------



## drez

Quote: 





redbull said:


> I'll cry if after 12 hrs it doesn't sound good


 
   
  Too true - so far it's pretty damn transparent, but that could be my brain tricking me out of crying lol.  I'm thinking of building more of the cable but not sure if my nerves would hold out, or whether people would like the ergonomics which are unavoidably bothersome and trigger the hell out of my audiophile nervosa.  Basically the cable does what it wants and I sit around it lol.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> I've been enjoying my HD800 for a while now, and it seems they have drawn my close relationship with my previously beloved 4.Ai to an end. Though they may have a similar sound signature, the 4.Ai comes nowhere close in terms of detail retrieval and sounds "mushy" in comparison. I am looking to upgrade within six months and have been considering several different CIEMs. Right now the Unique Melody Miracle and 1964 Ears V6 stand at the top of my list--have any of you guys been able to find CIEMs comparable to the almighty HD800?


 
  In terms of clarity, my JH16's are as close as I have found to the HD800's.


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





drez said:


> Too true - so far it's pretty damn transparent, but that could be my brain tricking me out of crying lol.  I'm thinking of building more of the cable but not sure if my nerves would hold out, or whether people would like the ergonomics which are unavoidably bothersome and trigger the hell out of my audiophile nervosa.  Basically the cable does what it wants and I sit around it lol.


 
  Yeah it does look pretty thick and cumbersome hehe. I'm going with a single run, but i'll be sleeving it with real carbon fiber and a Viablue y-splitter, along with a right-angle amphenol TRS jack for my BH Crack. It should look pretty nice!


----------



## drez

Quote: 





brunk said:


> Yeah it does look pretty thick and cumbersome hehe. I'm going with a single run, but i'll be sleeving it with real carbon fiber and a Viablue y-splitter, along with a right-angle amphenol TRS jack for my BH Crack. It should look pretty nice!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That carbon fibre tubing looks cool, the cable should look great!


----------



## FraGGleR

brunk said:


> Yeah it does look pretty thick and cumbersome hehe. I'm going with a single run, but i'll be sleeving it with real carbon fiber and a Viablue y-splitter, along with a right-angle amphenol TRS jack for my BH Crack. It should look pretty nice!




Getting a little off topic, but you aren't going to want to use carbon fiber as an outer layer. The strands break easily and can embed themselves into your skin, causing irritation. It can be covered in clear heatshrink, but that will only work for a static interconnect as it would be far too stiff for a headphone cable. Makes a great shielding layer, but terrible outer layer.


----------



## Maxvla

sp3llv3xit said:


> In your opinion or experience, which amp pairs best with the HD800?



At that price point, the Decware CSP2+


----------



## Maxvla

fatmansize48 said:


> I would like to add I have read several CIEM review threads/articles, but would like input from fellow HD800 owners.



You will find many owners of both HD800 and Ultimate Ears Reference Monitors. I own both and they are similar.


----------



## skeptic

For those considering aftermarket cables - you might want to take a few minutes to peruse a couple of the threads which discuss soldering hd800 connectors.  In summary, as I understand it, the pins within the hd800 connectors are so tiny that it is physically impossible for large guage (e.g. 18awg) cables sold by certain retailers to be fully attached to them...  This has led to some interesting comments and questions by a number of head-fi veterans and even MOT's as to what's really going on underneath the heatshrink.   http://www.head-fi.org/t/467620/hd800-connectors-are-you-kidding-me/30
   
  I've been reading up on this because I plan to either buy or diy a cable with a 4 pin xlr connector to use with my incoming bh mainline (so note that I am not a true cable naysayer).
   
  That said, hyperbole and suggestions that exotic cables will shift frequency response and tame the hd800's 6khz mini-peak have to be taken with a grain of salt.  If true, this is something that would clearly show up in software like diffmaker, but reputable cable makers are generally candid about the fact that the improvements they believe their cables bring about can't be measured by traditional means.  Such measurements don't tell the whole story.  Look at the O2 for example, which measures like a champ but has a definite edge to its sound that probably correlates to a design based on the use of gobs of global negative feedback to drop the noise floor.  Cables may well make a beneficial difference based on criteria we haven't yet developed the means to measure, but obvious changes in FR is not something anyone should be expecting in upgrading their hp cable.


----------



## LugBug1

^good post. 
   
  There is nothing wrong with the stock cable sonically. But its too long 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Hard to put a figure on it, but I'm guessing probably 95% of HD800 users are close to their equipment when using them. Shorter is always better with audio signals.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> ^good post.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with the stock cable sonically. But its too long
> 
> ...


 
  I find it the perfect length-mainly when I need it while lying in bed watching movies with them on a 65" plasma. Other than that-yeah maybe a hair too long.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





skeptic said:


> For those considering aftermarket cables - you might want to take a few minutes to peruse a couple of the threads which discuss soldering hd800 connectors.  In summary, as I understand it, the pins within the hd800 connectors are so tiny that it is physically impossible for large guage (e.g. 18awg) cables sold by certain retailers to be fully attached to them...  This has led to some interesting comments and questions by a number of head-fi veterans and even MOT's as to what's really going on underneath the heatshrink.   http://www.head-fi.org/t/467620/hd800-connectors-are-you-kidding-me/30
> 
> I've been reading up on this because I plan to either buy or diy a cable with a 4 pin xlr connector to use with my incoming bh mainline (so note that I am not a true cable naysayer).
> 
> That said, hyperbole and suggestions that exotic cables will shift frequency response and tame the hd800's 6khz mini-peak have to be taken with a grain of salt.  If true, this is something that would clearly show up in software like diffmaker, but reputable cable makers are generally candid about the fact that the improvements they believe their cables bring about can't be measured by traditional means.  Such measurements don't tell the whole story.  Look at the O2 for example, which measures like a champ but has a definite edge to its sound that probably correlates to a design based on the use of gobs of global negative feedback to drop the noise floor.  Cables may well make a beneficial difference based on criteria we haven't yet developed the means to measure, but obvious changes in FR is not something anyone should be expecting in upgrading their hp cable.


 
   
   
  Take out all connectors and hardwire them.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Take out all connectors and hardwire them.


 
  Question remains why? If there's no sonic difference, that is.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Question remains why? If there's no sonic difference, that is.


 
   
  Just in case.  Ha ha ha ...


----------



## FraGGleR

skeptic said:


> For those considering aftermarket cables - you might want to take a few minutes to peruse a couple of the threads which discuss soldering hd800 connectors.  In summary, as I understand it, the pins within the hd800 connectors are so tiny that it is physically impossible for large guage (e.g. 18awg) cables sold by certain retailers to be fully attached to them...  This has led to some interesting comments and questions by a number of head-fi veterans and even MOT's as to what's really going on underneath the heatshrink.   http://www.head-fi.org/t/467620/hd800-connectors-are-you-kidding-me/30
> 
> 
> I've been reading up on this because I plan to either buy or diy a cable with a 4 pin xlr connector to use with my incoming bh mainline (so note that I am not a true cable naysayer).
> ...




I have made several HD800 cables and it is more the room available inside the body of the connector than the pins themselves that are the issue. Even the wider bodied connectors that some makers are using are tiny compared to a mini XLR. Definitely the bulk of any very thick wire will remain outside the connectors with a small twist of wire going to the pins, but I'm not sure that should matter or be considered some sort of fraud or evil secret since the pins themselves are tiny and the wires inside the headphone are thin as well.

Then again, I make my cables to change the aesthetics and ergonomics as opposed to the sound. Someone really looking for measurable changes should look into the Anax mod variants.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





fraggler said:


> Then again, I make my cables to change the aesthetics and ergonomics as opposed to the sound. Someone really looking for measurable changes should look into the Anax mod variants.


 
   
  +1
  Yes sir....


----------



## LugBug1

Or different headphones...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Maybe you tried 650 the black screen one? Somehow I think my 650 treble is not too dull it actually have more treble presence compared to HD800.


 
  Mine had the newer silver drivers. Aren't the black ones even more laid back?


----------



## RedBull

bourneperfect said:


> I find it the perfect length-mainly when I need it while lying in bed watching movies with them on a 65" plasma. Other than that-yeah maybe a hair too long.
> 
> -Daniel




Yeah! HD800 is awesome! Wit movies!
How do you amp them for movies?


----------



## RedBull

macedonianhero said:


> Mine had the newer silver drivers. Aren't the black ones even more laid back?




Yes, black one treble even more laid back. Maybe HD650 just isn't your cup tea. 
The mids can be too warm for some though.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Yes, black one treble even more laid back. Maybe HD650 just isn't your cup tea.
> The mids can be too warm for some though.


 
  Yeah, I wouldn't want less treble....so I guess not my cup of tea.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Yeah! HD800 is awesome! Wit movies!
> How do you amp them for movies?


 
  I LOVE them with movies. I always just watch in stereo (blu-ray, MUCH better audio) through my Eximus. They are lovely for movies-which have a much higher dynamic range than movies-didn't really matter what amp I used as the bass was always kicking with movies on the Senn. The 3D imaging of the DP-1 is a REAL treat for both movies and games. I got rid of a couple of Dolby Headphone devices as the stereo seemed much more impressive. I'd love to try a Realiser sometime-but don't think I'd have the time/patience for it's relatively high learning curve.
   
  Gladiator OST on blu: tear-jerking. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Avatar action scenes: AWESOME. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## bearFNF

Avengers Blu-ray is awesome from oppo103->uber Bifrost -> Taboo MKIII
  Whole new way to watch movies for me...


----------



## RedBull

Yeah, I just plug in to my TV headphone out (bass is just SLAMMM!!) + Yamaha home theatre with sub (when time permit) => sound all around, clear mids, rumble. Iam in the movie ....


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i always watched movies with LCD-2, i still have to watch something with LCD-3. HD 800 is pretty good too


----------



## RedBull

I used to watch movies with LCD2, but HD800 is just clearer with vocal in movies


----------



## hekeli

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I'd love to try a Realiser sometime-but don't think I'd have the time/patience for it's relatively high learning curve.


 
   
  Oh yeah Realiser all the way. How do you have time to spend here all the time? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  LCD-3s were maybe a bit better with Realiser, but I'm happy with my HD800s.. definitely LCDs have more bass/dynamic potential..


----------



## persona1138

Unrelated note... Anyone tried listening to "Einstein on the Beach" with these puppies?  Totally overwhelming (in a good way).


----------



## FatmanSize48

flysweep said:


> The JH13Pro Freqphase.  It's absolutely _phenomenal_... and very much on par with the HD800 when it comes to resolution, clarity, tonal accuracy, frequency bandwidth, soundstage, imaging, and all that.  I've owned the UM Miracle, Heir 4.A.. among (many) other custom & universal IEMs, btw.. IME, the JH13 is head and shoulders above every single one of them.  In fact, the JH13 has single handedly ended my (seemingly never-ending) search for an IEM that delivers everything I want in an IEM in terms of technical ability and a neutral (but not boring/sterile/clinical) signature.
> I've owned a ton of IEMs and
> still anticipate listening to/reviewing them, but I don't have the desire to buy a single one for the foreseeable future.. thanks to the JH13.  It'
> s the only IEM that I would
> ...






persona1138 said:


> I'll say this for the ALO Green Cable with the 4-pin XLR addition (at least, when used with my HDVD 800)... The 1/4" stock cable that came with my Sennheiser HD 800's sounds smaller in comparison.  Now, the thing I love (and find amusing) about audiophiles is that we're willing to spend $378 (+tax for the Green Cable and 4-pin XLR... Plus an additional $149 if you want the Green Line extension to give you - rather than 6 feet in length with the standard Green Line cable - an extra 4 feet [equal to the 10 foot 1/4" plug cord that comes with an HD 800]) for a minor but still noticeable difference in sound quality.  There is an appreciable difference between the standard 1/4" cable and the Green Cable w/ 4-pin XLR... Bass is deeper, the treble is clearer, and the sound stage (at least, to my ears) seems more pronounced and separated.
> 
> ...The question is, is it worth $378 (or $527 with the extension cable, not including tax) worth the difference?  For my part, I've been going for a pure reference system with as much transparency as I can get.  I'm a film and television editor and while many HD 800 users want to temper the headphone's so-called "brighter" qualities... I personally find it has the right balance (when paired with the right amp... I highly recommend the HDVD 800 for an even, transparent sound)... I prefer when I can hear recordings for either personal or professional reasons as they were initially intended to be heard.  And for that purpose alone, I think that the ALO Audio Green Line cable was worth the price of admission.  It instantly elevated the quality, sound stage, and balance of my HD 800 headphones... Which are notoriously finicky. The standard cable is totally fine... The Green Line cable is way better (I haven't yet tried it with the 1/4" plug addition... I'm speaking solely about the 4-pin XLR, at least when paired with an HDVD 800 amp... Although, I have a 1/4" plug addition on order for use at work, and I have a sneaky suspicion that it will also sound better than the stock cable.  I also would prefer to not continually replace the Green Line cable jacks into my headphones with the stock cables just to get a 1/4" plug.)
> 
> ...







longbowbbs said:


> In terms of clarity, my JH16's are as close as I have found to the HD800's.







maxvla said:


> You will find many owners of both HD800 and Ultimate Ears Reference Monitors. I own both and they are similar.




I appreciate the time you all have taken for your responses. I've contacted both JH and UE about demo models, and I hope I'll be able to listen to both the JH-13 and UERM side by side.

As for the cables, I had no idea that HD800 cables are significantly harder to build. I always assumed the $20 premium over other cables was to cover the cost of the connectors themselves. If 18 gauge wire is the max size for the connectors, then it seemingly makes no sense to have a 14 gauge cable...

I looked into the Green Line back when I was using the LCD-2s. I was trying to find a modular headphone cable and, to my surprise, it was the only one that I could find. It's a beautiful shade of green...
My only apprehension was that the cable jacket material seemed a bit too rubbery--how does it feel to you, if I may ask?


----------



## helljudgement

I used to listen exclusively to iem since its easier to drive thus it ended up being cheaper in most cases and also more versatile due to its size. But ever since I've got my hd600 last year, I've always found it hard to go back to iem. I've heard universal models of customs which include jh13(pre-Freqphase), UM Miracle etc and other high end universal offering such as the k3003 but none can match my enjoyment with full size headphones. I was tempted to try the new jh13 but instead then decided to upgrade my set up to hd800. IMO I don't think there's any iem that could best the hd800. Closest you could get to the hd800? jh13(pre-freqphase) but still fall short imho. Would imagine the current version to be much better judging from innerfidelity review.


----------



## FlySweep

I've got a UERM demo right now, actually.. it's absolutely wonderful.  Almost complimentary to the JH13, actually.  The JH13 being warmer, more weighty, and intimate.. the UERM is brighter, more open, and possesses a very e-stat like sound.  I don't think you could go wrong with either.. hell.. I want to have both now.. LOL.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Avengers Blu-ray is awesome from oppo103->uber Bifrost -> Taboo MKIII
> Whole new way to watch movies for me...


 
  I love when I start looking behind me to see if something is there...


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I love when I start looking behind me to see if something is there...


 





 Yep, Or I keeping thinking someone is knocking on the front door.  Need to get a door bell with a remote light I can set in front of the TV...


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Yep, Or I keeping thinking someone is knocking on the front door.  Need to get a door bell with a remote light I can set in front of the TV...


 
  Hah! This has happened to me before


----------



## persona1138

fatmansize48 said:


> As for the cables, I had no idea that HD800 cables are significantly harder to build. I always assumed the $20 premium over other cables was to cover the cost of the connectors themselves. If 18 gauge wire is the max size for the connectors, then it seemingly makes no sense to have a 14 gauge cable...
> 
> I looked into the Green Line back when I was using the LCD-2s. I was trying to find a modular headphone cable and, to my surprise, it was the only one that I could find. It's a beautiful shade of green...
> My only apprehension was that the cable jacket material seemed a bit too rubbery--how does it feel to you, if I may ask?




It's not cloth-covered like the stock cable, and while I prefer the tangible feel of that one, the build quality on the Green Line seems great! I wouldn't say it feels overly "rubbery."

Besides, how many times am I just caressing my cables? 

Anyway, no complaints at all, and yeah... They're the only modular ones I could find.


----------



## skeptic

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> As for the cables, I had no idea that HD800 cables are significantly harder to build. I always assumed the $20 premium over other cables was to cover the cost of the connectors themselves. If 18 gauge wire is the max size for the connectors, then it seemingly makes no sense to have a 14 gauge cable...


 
   
  Sounds like Fragg can speak to this far better than I am able to, but note that a couple of posters in the other connector thread I linked above suggested that 24 or 26 guage wire is actually the largest that will fit.


----------



## silversurfer616

Do like the feel of the stock cable,nevertheless have just bought a Moon Audio Blue Dragon V3 from the classifieds.
Also,have the heavy ALO chain mail for LCDs connected to a Norse adapter but I think an adapter is really not helpful when it comes to optimal sound!?
Still,it sounds better than the stock cable and getting the V3 then it might even be better!
Crazy,I know!


----------



## FatmanSize48

flysweep said:


> I've got a UERM demo right now, actually.. it's absolutely wonderful.  Almost complimentary to the JH13, actually.  The JH13 being warmer, more weighty, and intimate.. the UERM is brighter, more open, and possesses a very e-stat like sound.  I don't think you could go wrong with either.. hell.. I want to have both now.. LOL.



I'm going to demo both the JH-13 and UERM on Thursday. It sounds like the UERM is a bit more in line with my preferred sound signature...
Have you made your choice yet? I suppose the JH-13 would be nice as a complement of sorts to the HD800, as listening to a single sound signature "reprograms" the brain's audio processing and listening to two different sound signatures could refresh the brain's audio pallet.


----------



## FatmanSize48

persona1138 said:


> It's not cloth-covered like the stock cable, and while I prefer the tangible feel of that one, the build quality on the Green Line seems great! I wouldn't say it feels overly "rubbery."
> 
> Besides, how many times am I just caressing my cables?
> 
> Anyway, no complaints at all, and yeah... They're the only modular ones I could find.



That's good to hear--I'll be on the lookout for one in the FS section, as I hope to order my cable by the end of August/start of September.


----------



## MickeyVee

FYI - Q-Cable also does modular cables.  Also, headphone end is min-XLR for Auzdeze and Steve does 'earrings' for HD800. Mine is en-route.  Had it for my HE-500 and the new silk sheathed cable is sweet! I bought a used first gen silk cable at a decent price and I just love it though it is a little short.  Thinking of the LCD-2 as a second HP so the new cable will be perfect for both.
  Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> I looked into the Green Line back when I was using the LCD-2s. I was trying to find a modular headphone cable and, to my surprise, it was the only one that I could find. It's a beautiful shade of green...
> My only apprehension was that the cable jacket material seemed a bit too rubbery--how does it feel to you, if I may ask?


----------



## FatmanSize48

Q cables are out of the question for me at the moment--The rest of my August audio budget shall be spent either on a new turntable (Pro-ject RM 5.1 SE with a Sumiko Blue Point Special No.3, a most excellent sounding combination) or subwoofer (HSU VTF-15H; what more is there to say?).


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> Q cables are out of the question for me at the moment--The rest of my August audio budget shall be spent either on a new turntable (Pro-ject RM 5.1 SE with a Sumiko Blue Point Special No.3, a most excellent sounding combination) or subwoofer (HSU VTF-15H; what more is there to say?).


 
  Turntables make excellent money pits


----------



## FatmanSize48

Indeed, they are. Unfortunately, I haven't been listening to my turntable rig as often as I'd like due to the limited technical ability of my current setup--hence my desire to upgrade.


----------



## persona1138

fatmansize48 said:


> Indeed, they are. Unfortunately, I haven't been listening to my turntable rig as often as I'd like due to the limited technical ability of my current setup--hence my desire to upgrade.



Just so we can all pour our hard-earned cash into more audio equipment... I've been looking for a good turntable. Any recommendations?


----------



## FatmanSize48

What kind of budget are you looking at? We can continue this via PM if you'd like.


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





persona1138 said:


> Just so we can all pour our hard-earned cash into more audio equipment... I've been looking for a good turntable. Any recommendations?


 
  That is a whole different rabbit-hole my friend. I would ask in the vinyl thread here, but let them know what type of sound youre looking for (more musical vs analytical and forward vs relaxed) and budget.


----------



## ericfarrell85

Finally sprung the amp that has been an unrelenting curiousity for me, the Balancing Act. Between the BA, Zana, balanced Beta and Dynahi I'll be able to try all kinds of combinations with this, my favorite dynamic headphone. If the preamped Zana into a 3 channel Beta was any indication, the BA unto a balanced Beta should be a real knockout. Now comes the hardest part of choosing which amps will need to go. I've run out of shelf space.


----------



## Maxvla

Beta ^


----------



## BournePerfect

He'll dump the Beta then the Zana...oh wait that's his favorite pairing so far. Will be interesting to see if he like the ZDSE/HD800 better than the BA/HD800-like a few folks around here do.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## persona1138

fatmansize48 said:


> What kind of budget are you looking at? We can continue this via PM if you'd like.



Oh goodness... I guess anywhere between $500 and $1000. I only have a handful of vinyls, but - while it's something I grew up on (in much later years fhan vinyl was popular, just loading my folks' records as a kid almost 20 years ago) it's something I've always wanted to get back into.


----------



## persona1138

brunk said:


> That is a whole different rabbit-hole my friend. I would ask in the vinyl thread here, but let them know what type of sound youre looking for (more musical vs analytical and forward vs relaxed) and budget.



Fair enough, man. (Sorry to double post...)


----------



## Maxvla

bourneperfect said:


> He'll dump the Beta then the Zana...oh wait that's his favorite pairing so far. Will be interesting to see if he like the ZDSE/HD800 better than the BA/HD800-like a few folks around here do.
> 
> -Daniel



Using 2 amps in a headphone chain is silly. I also don't think the Beta is a good HD800 amp at all. If shelf space is truly the problem, running 2 large double case amps is not the way to fix that.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Using 2 amps in a headphone chain is silly. I also don't think the Beta is a good HD800 amp at all. If shelf space is truly the problem, running 2 large double case amps is not the way to fix that.


 
  Well that's what he's been doing-using the Zana as a pre to the Beta. Whatever works-I don't see much issue though if he's running the Beta at full volume (like a power amp), then attenuating with the Zana. Haven't tried that though with anything other than my DP-1 acting as a digital pre...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## sp3llv3xit

It took me around 3 weeks of continuous playback to burn in my Beyerdynamic T1 to hear an increase in bass presentation and for the highs to sound smoother.  I just got my HD800 last Monday.  How long -- in your experience -- is the minimum burn-in time for the Sennheiser flagship?


----------



## BournePerfect

IMO the HD800 wa one of only a couple of headphones that didn't change much with burn in. It did seem like the treble harshness calmed down a bit over the first day or two-but over all they were pretty stable from day one-on a 3 of my new pairs.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## FatmanSize48

An couple of hours ought to do the trick. I've compared my "burnt in" HD800s (at least 200h) to a dealer pair 2 hours out of the box...and I couldn't tell the difference in a test-type-that-shalt-not-be-named. This was with a megabucks DAC and a professional amp with two outputs, which both, if I may add, sounded far more neutral than my Pan Am. <-Go figure.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> IMO the HD800 wa one of only a couple of headphones that didn't change much with burn in. It did seem like the treble harshness calmed down a bit over the first day or two-but over all they were pretty stable from day one-on a 3 of my new pairs.
> 
> -Daniel


 

 Thanks and wow! You have 3 HD800s?????
  
  Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> An couple of hours ought to do the trick. I've compared my "burnt in" HD800s (at least 200h) to a dealer pair 2 hours out of the box...and I couldn't tell the difference in a test-type-that-shalt-not-be-named. This was with a megabucks DAC and a professional amp with two outputs, which both, if I may add, sounded far more neutral than my Pan Am. <-Go figure.


 

  
  I am on my third day (non-stop) burn in. I just leave the headphones playing tracks throughout the last 3 days.  

 So the ALO portable-cum-desktop colors the HD800 more?


----------



## BournePerfect

Bought a new one three different times lol-just own one now. Learned the hard way what many here have (and many more have not): it takes some work to get these cans to truly shine. They scale so incredibly well that I doubt anyone here has truly heard their ceiling yet. My .02.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## FatmanSize48

Of course the Pan Am is more colored than an amplifier designed for completely linear output 

I don't really see the point in leaving your headphones on for three days...
If you have a tube amp, that's definitely not a wise use of its precious time.


----------



## FatmanSize48

For the more open minded folks, this article makes for great reading.

http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> Of course the Pan Am is more colored than an amplifier designed for completely linear output
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks.  Pulling the plug now.


----------



## LugBug1

Same here, didn't hear much change with burn in at all with the HD800's. I do believe in burn in and have heard other phones change over time.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Same here, didn't hear much change with burn in at all with the HD800's. I do believe in burn in and have heard other phones change over time.


 


 My T1 did.  HD800 sounded thin out of the box.  But now, it sounds fuller.  I stayed away from auditioning it while being burned in to avoid that placebo or psychosomatic effect.  It does sound more forward than when I first listened to it out of the box 3 days ago.
   
  But you're right.  I am enjoying the headphones now rather allowing it to play all by itself.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





sp3llv3xit said:


> My T1 did.  HD800 sounded thin out of the box.  But now, it sounds fuller.  I stayed away from auditioning it while being burned in to avoid that placebo or psychosomatic effect.  It does sound more forward than when I first listened to it out of the box 3 days ago.
> 
> But you're right.  I am enjoying the headphones now rather allowing it to play all by itself.


 
   
  I guess that's the thing, whether the drivers actually change, or whether your ears adjust, the net result is the same.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Quote: 





drez said:


> I guess that's the thing, whether the drivers actually change, or whether your ears adjust, the net result is the same.


 


 Aye. Couldn't agree with you more on that point.


----------



## Takeanidea

.  

So the ALO portable-cum-desktop colors the HD800 more?
 
 It's a great dac/amp- it's hard to say what the difference between this and any other dac/amp is- it's maybe a smoother sound, there is a high and low gain but the hd800s go loud enough on low gain and that sounds less harsh to me. There are lots of other good bits of kit around , this is a good choice for those that want a portable dac headphone amp that looks nice and sounds good and runs anything without straining, trev


----------



## R Scott Ireland

+1. The Pan Am is a wonderful little amp that sounds very good with all headphones I've tried. A set of Mullard and Voskhods tubes will cover just about everything.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





persona1138 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hmmmmm....
   
  [size=xx-large]= [/size] ?
Just wondering.....


----------



## drez

I think I get the joke (it's about cost of turntables???)


----------



## khaine1711

I don't quite get it either.
   
  Even a 6k VPI turntable must surely be much cheaper than a yatch of that size?


----------



## LugBug1

Or, it sounds that good you just sail away with the music..


----------



## longbowbbs

It is a metaphor for the constant cost of tinkering and upgrading....Of course, you can use the TT in the winter....


----------



## palmfish

Its the law of diminishing returns - like all things. You can get a good turntable for less than $400 (cartridge included) and be done. Beyond that, there's room to spend and tinker, but it isn't necessary.


----------



## bearFNF

How about this one instead? WOW!!!
   

   
  Oh, and I did hear a change in the HD800's over the first couple of days, bass came up and treble softened, both ever so slightly.  I was also switching between about four different phones at the time comparing them all.  Now I mostly listen to the HD800 and PS500.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> For the more open minded folks, this article makes for great reading.
> 
> http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction


 
  But but but that is for speaker enclosures, headphones are a hole different thing...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 had to say it before any ones else.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 joking and sarcastic here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It was a good read, though interesting stuff.


----------



## ericfarrell85

maxvla said:


> Using 2 amps in a headphone chain is silly. I also don't think the Beta is a good HD800 amp at all. If shelf space is truly the problem, running 2 large double case amps is not the way to fix that.




Given the big picture and the laws of diminishing return most of what we do here falls within the purview of silly. I wasn't satisfied with the HD800 and the Zana, and neither was I satisfied with the Beta. Together they play well and cover most of the bases. Same case applied to the LCD. The Decware amps, Taboo and CSP2+, when together, provide enough of an improvement for me to justify the expenditure and shelf space. If it's silly, it's in the way that any purchase intended to improve upon a current sound is silly.

As for shelf space I've already built upwards of 7 feet vertical. Unless I plan on enshrining these amps with a 12 foot structure, a couple of them, the "redundants", should probably be sold.


----------



## Takeanidea

ericfarrell85 said:


> Given the big picture and the laws of diminishing return most of what we do here falls within the purview of silly. I wasn't satisfied with the HD800 and the Zana, and neither was I satisfied with the Beta. Together they play well and cover most of the bases. Same case applied to the LCD. The Decware amps, Taboo and CSP2+, when together, provide enough of an improvement for me to justify the expenditure and shelf space. If it's silly, it's in the way that any purchase intended to improve upon a current sound is silly.
> 
> As for shelf space I've already built upwards of 7 feet vertical. Unless I plan on enshrining these amps with a 12 foot structure, a couple of them, the "redundants", should probably be sold.





Utter madness but we love it


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





ericfarrell85 said:


> Given the big picture and the laws of diminishing return most of what we do here falls within the purview of silly. I wasn't satisfied with the HD800 and the Zana, and neither was I satisfied with the Beta. Together they play well and cover most of the bases. Same case applied to the LCD. The Decware amps, Taboo and CSP2+, when together, provide enough of an improvement for me to justify the expenditure and shelf space. If it's silly, it's in the way that any purchase intended to improve upon a current sound is silly.
> 
> As for shelf space I've already built upwards of 7 feet vertical. Unless I plan on enshrining these amps with a 12 foot structure, a couple of them, the "redundants", should probably be sold.


 
   
  So eric,
   
  Don't remember any of your impressions with the HD800 and the Dynahi?  Your Dynahi is SE not balanced?  
   
  I have a 2013 build coming doing a lot of things different in the build to make an attempt to pair well with the HD800s
   
  Anyway would like to read your impressions of the two together.


----------



## CEE TEE

ericfarrell85 said:


> Finally sprung the amp that has been an unrelenting curiousity for me, the Balancing Act. Between the BA, Zana, balanced Beta and Dynahi I'll be able to try all kinds of combinations with this, my favorite dynamic headphone. If the preamped Zana into a 3 channel Beta was any indication, the BA unto a balanced Beta should be a real knockout. Now comes the hardest part of choosing which amps will need to go. I've run out of shelf space.



Cool, congrats! I've always wanted to live with both ZD and BA at the same time too...which output tubes will you run in the BA? I found that the Solid Plate EML 300B almost gave the extra low end and high end like a Beta 22, might be doubling up there. And I prefer the KR PX-4 and Solid Plate EML 300B to the Mesh Plate in the BA. Definitely interested to hear your thoughts on the different combos and tubes. You've got similar stuff but a lot more!


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> +1
> 
> I recently re-aquired some K701's and my HD800's sound like HD650's in comparison. (only in brightness)
> 
> That said, I do know there is a tweak in the treble top. It's there but its not nearly as pronounced as some peeps exclaim. It helps bring out detail, but I've never heard them sound harsh or too bright. This is a badly beaten up deceased horse of a subject, but a subject that will always be of consideration with these phones. Its a shame because If I'd never read about the peak I really wouldn't have noticed it. Or gave it a second thought..


 
  Same here .


----------



## belisk

Got the HD800(2XXXX) today, i'm pairing it with a Concero HP(sabre 9018) portable DAC, must be a good combo because i've not found the HD800 to be bright or have any hint on sibilance of any kind, even average recordings sound good, everything sounds smooth.


----------



## ericfarrell85

cee tee said:


> Cool, congrats! I've always wanted to live with both ZD and BA at the same time too...which output tubes will you run in the BA? I found that the Solid Plate EML 300B almost gave the extra low end and high end like a Beta 22, might be doubling up there. And I prefer the KR PX-4 and Solid Plate EML 300B to the Mesh Plate in the BA. Definitely interested to hear your thoughts on the different combos and tubes. You've got similar stuff but a lot more!




Thanks, I've wanted to hear the BA for a long time now. I'll be using solid plate EML 300B with a TS round plate in the driver. I'll probably spring for an PX-4 in the future to see what all the fuss is about. I'm hoping the slightly thicker 300B will mesh well with the HD800. As for the Zana I may not have much use left for it, but it's been my favorite piece of equipment for so long that I'll likely keep it in the event I want a more OTL type sound. Besides the AD2000 and HD650 are really very close to perfect on the Zana.


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





ericfarrell85 said:


> Thanks, I've wanted to hear the BA for a long time now. I'll be using solid plate EML 300B with a TS round plate in the driver. I'll probably spring for an PX-4 in the future to see what all the fuss is about. I'm hoping the slightly thicker 300B will mesh well with the HD800. As for the Zana I may not have much use left for it, but it's been my favorite piece of equipment for so long that I'll likely keep it in the event I want a more OTL type sound. Besides the AD2000 and HD650 are really very close to perfect on the Zana.


 
   
  Although the 300B's thick warm sound may be a good match with the HD800, I've read many people saying they prefer the PX-4 far more, even with the HD800. Then again, I've never heard it myself, so I'm really curious.


----------



## NightFlight

recalled post


----------



## Shin-Ra

Hello everyone. I'm new member of Head-Fi. I have a question.  I came to Head-Fi, because I listen HD800, and finding a good amp. I use LaFigaro 339, but I want better sound.  I thought maybe, Zana Deux, WA22, Phonitor, Apex Peak & Volcano.  What amp you recommend? If you compared amps please explain sound.  And excuse me for bad English.


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





shin-ra said:


> Hello everyone. I'm new member of Head-Fi. I have a question.  I came to Head-Fi, because I listen HD800, and finding a good amp. I use LaFigaro 339, but I want better sound.  I thought maybe, Zana Deux, WA22, Phonitor, Apex Peak & Volcano.  What amp you recommend? If you compared amps please explain sound.  And excuse me for bad English.


 
   
  Welcome to Head-Fi!
  I've only listened to Zana Deux SE and Phonitor. Of these two, ZDSE is clearly the winner.
  I'm personally curious about the WA22 too.


----------



## kensonic

@ songmic, You are one (of a few) lucky person who heard the HPA5000 with the HD800 already. What are the reasons (sound-wise) that you prefered the Allnic over your ZDSE ? Did you hear the Allnic also with other HPs ? I am just trying to find out more about this amp. See also: http://www.head-fi.org/t/639491/any-opinions-reviews-on-the-allnic-hpa5000 Thanks !


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





shin-ra said:


> Hello everyone. I'm new member of Head-Fi. I have a question.  I came to Head-Fi, because I listen HD800, and finding a good amp. I use LaFigaro 339, but I want better sound.  I thought maybe, Zana Deux, WA22, Phonitor, Apex Peak & Volcano.  What amp you recommend? If you compared amps please explain sound.  And excuse me for bad English.


 
   
  I really like the HD800 with the DNA Stratus out of the box (cheap Shuguang tubes) or EML meshes. The ECZD, despite its lush OTL sound has a slight bit of edge in the treble that may not go well with the HD800s unless you Anax mod them, get a cable, or perform other tweaks. I have know many who love the ECZD combo though. The Apex P/V has a treble etch, but moreover it's cooler sound may not go well with the HD800s (I love the Apex P/V with the Audezes and HE500s - not so much with HD800s - although with appropriate DAC, you can get it to work.) The Phonitor is OK with the HD800s. The WA22 can be setup with the right tonal balance, but it lacks in technicalities which the HD800 is capable of.
   
  The Stratus and ZD are notably more dynamic than the other amps. In terms of microdetail, Apex P/V, Stratus, and ZD are about equivalent and better than the rest.


----------



## purrin

P.S. Forgot to mention ECS7 for the HD800 as well.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





shin-ra said:


> Hello everyone. I'm new member of Head-Fi. I have a question.  I came to Head-Fi, because I listen HD800, and finding a good amp. I use LaFigaro 339, but I want better sound.  I thought maybe, Zana Deux, WA22, Phonitor, Apex Peak & Volcano.  What amp you recommend? If you compared amps please explain sound.  And excuse me for bad English.


 
  I'm liking the Decware Taboo MKIII with my HD800's, The Taboo thread has some impressions on it that you could read through. http://www.head-fi.org/t/655788/the-decware-taboo-mk-111-appreciation-thread


----------



## M-13

I would love to see a Super 7 vs Taboo 3 comparison.


----------



## negura

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> I'm liking the Decware Taboo MKIII with my HD800's, The Taboo thread has some impressions on it that you could read through. http://www.head-fi.org/t/655788/the-decware-taboo-mk-111-appreciation-thread


 
   
  +1. A tube amp also gives that flexibility if you want to take things to the next level and roll tubes to something that suits your preference better.


----------



## Shin-Ra

Quote: 





purrin said:


> I really like the HD800 with the DNA Stratus out of the box (cheap Shuguang tubes) or EML meshes. The ECZD, despite its lush OTL sound has a slight bit of edge in the treble that may not go well with the HD800s unless you Anax mod them, get a cable, or perform other tweaks. I have know many who love the ECZD combo though. The Apex P/V has a treble etch, but moreover it's cooler sound may not go well with the HD800s (I love the Apex P/V with the Audezes and HE500s - not so much with HD800s - although with appropriate DAC, you can get it to work.) The Phonitor is OK with the HD800s. The WA22 can be setup with the right tonal balance, but it lacks in technicalities which the HD800 is capable of.
> 
> The Stratus and ZD are notably more dynamic than the other amps. In terms of microdetail, Apex P/V, Stratus, and ZD are about equivalent and better than the rest.


 
   
 Thank you for answers, purrin.  So, are you saying ZD is the best of the 4 amps, and better than WA22 and Phonitor?


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





shin-ra said:


> Thank you for answers, purrin.  So, are you saying ZD is the best of the 4 amps, and better than WA22 and Phonitor?


 
  No I think he's saying the DNA Stratus is the best, either that or the Eddie Current Super 7


----------



## AgentXXL

Somewhat off-topic, but I've posted in the DIY Cable Questions and Comments Thread without any response. Do any of my fellow HD800 owners know if it's possible to disassemble and re-use the stock 1/4" connector on the stock cable? See my post in the other thread ( http://www.head-fi.org/t/676402/diy-cable-questions-and-comments-thread/120#post_9728475 ) for more details and feel free to reply by PM so we keep this thread on track.

Dale


----------



## Shin-Ra

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> No I think he's saying the DNA Stratus is the best, either that or the Eddie Current Super 7


 
   
 No, I mean, is the Zana Deux the best of 4 amps I thought, for HD800?  Better than WA22, Phonitor, and Apex?  I don't have enough money for buy DNA Stratus.


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





shin-ra said:


> No, I mean, is the Zana Deux the best of 4 amps I thought, for HD800?  Better than WA22, Phonitor, and Apex?  I don't have enough money for buy DNA Stratus.


 
  If you want a SET amp that won't break the bank (Stratus), check out the BottleHead S.E.X. 2.1. Grab the 2x upgrade options and you can get it for $675 shipped. Choosing whether or not to build it yourself is another matter however.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> I would love to see a Super 7 vs Taboo 3 comparison.


 
  That would be a fun comparison!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





shin-ra said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The Decware CSP2+ is excellent for the HD800 and is currently (for the next 6 weeks or so) under $1000 USD.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> The Decware CSP2+ is excellent for the HD800 and is currently (for the next 6 weeks or so) under $1000 USD.


 
  Whatever happened to the CSP3 you mentioned a while ago?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Whatever happened to the CSP3 you mentioned a while ago?
> 
> -Daniel


 
  See here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/338147/review-decware-select-zen-csp2-tube-headphone-amp/480#post_9732227
   
  basically the CSP3+ has the same circuitry as CSP2+, just improved layout and an optional caps upgrade (which can be applied to the CSP2+ as well)


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  They are transitioning right now. if you go to the site you order the CSP2+ but get upgraded to the CSP3+. This is standard Decware policy to allow early adopters a nice discount on the newest gear.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> They are transitioning right now. if you go to the site you order the CSP2+ but get upgraded to the CSP3+. This is standard Decware policy to allow early adopters a nice discount on the newest gear.


 
  Yeah I've checked a couple of times lately, but found nothing. What are the improvements supposed to be? And does it mention the upgrade to CSP3+ when it's at the checkout, or what? Also, I'd expect the usual 12ish week wait time?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  PM sent


----------



## brunk

Here's my diffuse field frequency response graph for 23xxx. Seems pretty decent to me, no major dips or peaks compared to some graphs i've seen.


----------



## TenMoonsNorth

This may be an odd question. Has anyone ever made leather pads like the MrSpeakers Alpha Pads for the HD800s?


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





tenmoonsnorth said:


> This may be an odd question. Has anyone ever made leather pads like the MrSpeakers Alpha Pads for the HD800s?


 
  hd800s earpads are its own shape and quite large. i dont think i've seen anybody making leather pads. also the hd800's pads are not really meant to be user removable so it is actually not easy to remove them (but definitely doable, there are tutorials online). personally i think the microfiber texture of the hd800 pads is more comfortable than leather, but problem is after a while they wear out and replacement is a pain lol


----------



## scolaiw

You can buy replacement earpads from Senn to replace yourself so I'd say they are meant to be user removeable, just very hard.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> also the hd800's pads are not really meant to be user removable so it is actually not easy to remove them


 
   
  I thought it was pretty easy.  Just dig into the inside and pull on the plastic ring.  Carefully and evenly all the way around.  They pretty much come right off...


----------



## FatmanSize48

How often should pads be replaced?


----------



## poikkeus

If they're damaged or worn enough to bother you. I haven't changed mine, and I've owned it since it was released, which I guess is 2009.


----------



## rawrster

I've had mine replaced once. The pads were beginning to start flaking so that was as good a sign as any to replace them. They actually cost somewhat reasonable considering the price of the headphone or at least it is from Sennheiser USA. It was ~80 or so shipped or in that general ballpark. I was expecting much more than that.
   
  The pads are real easy to remove. They pretty much snap into place similar to how the HD600/650 are. There are some tutorials online so it takes like 2 minutes. Of course I wasn't aware of the tutorials when I changed mine and thought the plastic ring like thing that's inside the pads had to stay on the HD800 and you had to put the pads back on by pushing the flap inside...


----------



## FatmanSize48

I just read the pad replacement article on Headfonia--I probably can get another two years out of mine without new pads. 

I apologize to interrupt the impressions and recommendations on this thread with yet another maintenance question: How do you clean your pads? I've been using a very fine horsehair brush, which seems to work well with Beyerdynamic's and Sennheiser's velour...


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> I just read the pad replacement article on Headfonia--I probably can get another two years out of mine without new pads.
> 
> I apologize to interrupt the impressions and recommendations on this thread with yet another maintenance question: How do you clean your pads? I've been using a very fine horsehair brush, which seems to work well with Beyerdynamic's and Sennheiser's velour...


 
  I just use tape. Press on, peel off.


----------



## Hubert481

Please, can anyone give me an answer for the frequency-question in the other thread? - thank you!
http://www.head-fi.org/t/433059/sennheiser-hd800-certificate-for-frequency-response-arrived/375#post_9704712


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





brunk said:


> I just use tape. Press on, peel off.


 
   
  or a lint roller


----------



## nk77

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> or a lint roller


 
  The greatest invention in the world!


----------



## Eee Pee

Little bit of dish soap in a bowl of water and some massaging and a good rinsing. Pat and squeeze dry with a paper towel and air dry (fan helps). Tape and things work fine but don't get rid of the oils from your, or other people's head.


----------



## magiccabbage

i just finished catching up on this thread. 96 pages of reading. 
   
  Has anyone here heard DNA stratus and also GS X MK2 for comparisons, just for hd800? I am currently running WA2/T1, HD800 will be my next headphone but i want to have another rig for it so im thinking the GS X MK2 or the stratus. I would like to try solid state and the idea of not having to roll more tubes and buy spairs is nice so i'm leaning towards the GS X but if the stratus is far better i might consider that.


----------



## froger

magiccabbage said:


> i just finished catching up on this thread. 96 pages of reading.
> 
> Has anyone here heard DNA stratus and also GS X MK2 for comparisons, just for hd800? I am currently running WA2/T1, HD800 will be my next headphone but i want to have another rig for it so im thinking the GS X MK2 or the stratus. I would like to try solid state and the idea of not having to roll more tubes and buy spairs is nice so i'm leaning towards the GS X but if the stratus is far better i might consider that.


 I PMed Canta Ista, a fellow head-fier, on his opinions on the two amps earlier and his impression of them with HD800 as he has heard both of them at meets and ended up ordering both of them. He replied and I thought he gave a pretty insightful view and helped me make the decision in the end. I will not post it here as I am not sure if he minds. In a nutshell, he said that both amps perform remarkably with HD800 and it really boils down to the signature you prefer.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





froger said:


> I PMed Canta Ista, a fellow head-fier, on his opinions on the two amps earlier and his impression of them with HD800 as he has heard both of them at meets and ended up ordering both of them. He replied and I thought he gave a pretty insightful view and helped me make the decision in the end. I will not post it here as I am not sure if he minds. In a nutshell, he said that both amps perform remarkably with HD800 and it really boils down to the signature you prefer.


 
  thanks for the reply, i wonder would he be willing to post up his impressions?


----------



## technica18

The ear pad material is very nice but I wish they'd have made them a bit more plush with more padding.


----------



## FatmanSize48

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Little bit of dish soap in a bowl of water and some massaging and a good rinsing. Pat and squeeze dry with a paper towel and air dry (fan helps). Tape and things work fine but don't get rid of the oils from your, or other people's head.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> or a lint roller


 
   
  Hmm...it seems like a combination of the two would be best. I'll try handwashing them to clean out the accumulated oil and then use a lint roller.


----------



## third_eye

Lint rollers work really well, not just for HD800's but for all velour pads.
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Scotch-Brite-Lint-Roller-Count-Sheets/dp/B002DQ6EU4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377297527&sr=8-1&keywords=lint+roller


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> i just finished catching up on this thread. 96 pages of reading.
> 
> Has anyone here heard DNA stratus and also GS X MK2 for comparisons, just for hd800? I am currently running WA2/T1, HD800 will be my next headphone but i want to have another rig for it so im thinking the GS X MK2 or the stratus. I would like to try solid state and the idea of not having to roll more tubes and buy spairs is nice so i'm leaning towards the GS X but if the stratus is far better i might consider that.


 
   
  lol would be awesome owning both these amps. you could drive any headphone too.


----------



## leadbythemelody

Just got my HD800's...they're not sibilant at all... why are people saying they are sibilant???


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





leadbythemelody said:


> Just got my HD800's...they're not sibilant at all... why are people saying they are sibilant???


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





leadbythemelody said:


> Just got my HD800's...they're not sibilant at all... why are people saying they are sibilant???


 
   
  What is the rest of your chain?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## leadbythemelody

A cheap budget objective 2 amplifier and ODAC hooked up to my Laptop.
  I was afraid it was going to sound thin but it doesn't? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I was planning on getting a Vioelectric V200 soon to pair with my HD800's. Maybe I got a lucky pair?


----------



## leadbythemelody

Or maybe I have the ears of an old man...


----------



## leadbythemelody




----------



## BournePerfect

Glad that works for you. They can scale MUCH higher though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  -Daniel


----------



## leadbythemelody

I bet they can


----------



## brunk

Your graph has a little dip in the presence region, followed by a peak from 3-6khz. Mine is pretty flat there, and doesn't peak until around 8khz. That "suck out" you have could be why vocals singing a "ssssh" sound may not be perceptible to you, even if its on the recording.
  Quote: 





leadbythemelody said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!


----------



## froger

leadbythemelody said:


> A cheap budget objective 2 amplifier and ODAC hooked up to my Laptop.
> I was afraid it was going to sound thin but it doesn't? :blink:
> I was planning on getting a Vioelectric V200 soon to pair with my HD800's. Maybe I got a lucky pair?


Spend more time with the HD800, certain flaws will only reveal after a while if your ears are not that sensitive. I thought my HD800 sounded smooth out of the Eximus DP-1 amp, after 2 weeks of listening to the combi, I found myself selecting tracks more carefully as some were simply unpleasant to my ears. I have been using my Mad dogs with my O2 amp in office and thought it was a nice sounding combi until I happened to hook it up to my Mini Torii amp at home. It transformed into the most musically sounding/engaging pair of amp and headphone I have ever heard in my life and Immediately I withdrew the ad I put up to sell the Mini Torii. My advice to you is if you love your wallet, get out of this place immediately! Ignorance is bliss and that is the only way you can be totally satisfied with your gear and be happy. If you continue to stay around, you will only start experimenting higher gears and discover how much higher you can scale. That is when all our wallets start hating us


----------



## froger

leadbythemelody said:


>


My personal take is that there is really no point looking at all these graphs, perhaps only to make you FEEL better/worse about your HD800. Come on, your ears are the one who LISTEN to the sound, not the measuring machine. To me, if I don't like the sound it is producing, so what if it has the flattest FR graph? Likewise if I enjoy the sound, I wouldn't care a bit that the FR graph is a mess. There is no need to justify what you hear unless you are insecure.


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





froger said:


> My personal take is that there is really no point looking at all these graphs, perhaps only to make you FEEL better/worse about your HD800. Come on, your ears are the one who LISTEN to the sound, not the measuring machine. To me, if I don't like the sound it is producing, so what if it has the flattest FR graph? Likewise if I enjoy the sound, I wouldn't care a bit that the FR graph is a mess. There is no need to justify what you hear unless you are insecure.


 
   
  +1
  I don't pay much attention to graphs or measurements. I just listen to what sounds good to my ears


----------



## silversurfer616

I actually think the graphs are just random and not related to any particular headphone(despite bearing the serial number).
Mine are 854 and they are exactly how I like it and then slightly different depending on my chain.
Heard a 20 000 something the other day and they sounded good too.
Whats a graph?


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> I actually think the graphs are just random and not related to any particular headphone(despite bearing the serial number).
> Mine are 854 and they are exactly how I like it and then slightly different depending on my chain.
> Heard a 20 000 something the other day and they sounded good too.
> Whats a graph?


 
[size=medium] graph  [/size]  /graf/   

 [size=small] 
  Noun

 
 A diagram showing the relation between typically two variable quantities, each measured along one of a pair of axes at right angles.
 A visual symbol representing a unit of sound or other feature of speech. Graphs include not only letters of the alphabet but also...
 
 
    Verb

 Plot or trace on a graph.
 
    Synonyms

 chart - diagram
 

 [/size]
   
   
  I couldn't help myself


----------



## RedBull

Yes, your amp change, your 'graph' change as well.


----------



## leadbythemelody

Thanks for the advice guys, they really sound good to me so yeah


----------



## AgentXXL

I may not be able to afford an amp like most of the ones discussed here for a long while. That said, I finally saved up enough money to get my hands on a Ray Samuels Audio Intruder balanced portable amp. I spent a decent amount of time today re-terminating my stock HD800 cable and making it into a modular cable so I can build/use adapters depending on the amp I go with. Of course the 1st adapter was the one for the RSA Intruder. I've heard my HD800s in balanced mode at a previous local Head-Fi meet, but now I can spend some serious time enjoying the openness that a balanced headphone offers. 
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/71148/diy-cable-gallery/12705#post_9738641
   
  So much more joy for my HD800s to bring me...


----------



## mink70

Just reposting my comments from the DNA Sonett 2 thread:
   
...but with a balanced HD800 (with a Cardas 4-pin cable), the best sound I've ever heard at home. Just spectacular. No harshness, incredible detail and speed, and emotion, too. Lots of bass and PRAT. Perfect gain structure. The Sonett 2 is by far the best amplifier pairing I've heard with the HD800—more linear and powerful than the oft-mentioned Decware CSP2+, and more natural sounding and less zingy than the Zana Deux. And with the new version of Audirvana Plus (1.5.6), the soundstaging with this setup is just ridiculous. I hear instruments well behind my head, way off to the sides, above, etc. A lot of fun.


----------



## ericfarrell85

mink70 said:


> Just reposting my comments from the DNA Sonett 2 thread:
> 
> ...but with a balanced HD800 (with a Cardas 4-pin cable), the best sound I've ever heard at home. Just spectacular. No harshness, incredible detail and speed, and emotion, too. Lots of bass and PRAT. Perfect gain structure. The Sonett 2 is by far the best amplifier pairing I've heard with the HD800—more linear and powerful than the oft-mentioned Decware CSP2+, and more natural sounding and less zingy than the Zana Deux. And with the new version of Audirvana Plus (1.5.6), the soundstaging with this setup is just ridiculous. I hear instruments well behind my head, way off to the sides, above, etc. A lot of fun.




Glad you found the sound you were looking for Alex! It's been a journey for you with this headphone. I recently picked up a BA and another Beta (but balanced). If you're ever in the mood to compare, let me know. Enjoy your S2.


----------



## mink70

Quote: 





ericfarrell85 said:


> Glad you found the sound you were looking for Alex! It's been a journey for you with this headphone. I recently picked up a BA and another Beta (but balanced). If you're ever in the mood to compare, let me know. Enjoy your S2.


 
   
  Thanks for the offer Eric. And thanks for letting me hear your setup—it was educational and a pleasure. The S2 has really surprised me; not sure how much of this is attributable to the balanced drive or the cable, but my issues with this headphone—it's tendency for sounding wiry, unforgiving and uninvolving with certain (most?) amps—has been solved entirely with this setup (Havana DAC+S2). In fact, sometimes I find it just a touch too warm and dark. But not often. But I suppose it goes to show what a changeable headphone the HD800 is.


----------



## mink70

Quote: 





ericfarrell85 said:


> Glad you found the sound you were looking for Alex! It's been a journey for you with this headphone. I recently picked up a BA and another Beta (but balanced). If you're ever in the mood to compare, let me know. Enjoy your S2.


 
   
  And let me know if you want to hear the S2. It would be great to have you over.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





mink70 said:


> Thanks for the offer Eric. And thanks for letting me hear your setup—it was educational and a pleasure. The S2 has really surprised me; not sure how much of this is attributable to the balanced drive or the cable, but my issues with this headphone—it's tendency for sounding wiry, unforgiving and uninvolving with certain (most?) amps—has been solved entirely with this setup (Havana DAC+S2). In fact, sometimes I find it just a touch too warm and dark. But not often. But I suppose it goes to show what a changeable headphone the HD800 is.


 
  Were you using the Havana with the other amps? That alone could easily attribute a lot of the changes you're hearing-especially in regards to tonality and warmth.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## froger

magiccabbage said:


> thanks for the reply, i wonder would he be willing to post up his impressions?



Hi, just got Canta Ista's permission to post it here:

"Hi Froger;

I am getting both of these amps for my HD800. I think both are good and I am getting them to get SS and Tube listening options.

I have heard both but only in meet conditions so I only have high level impressions I can share. Basically, the GSX is the most transparent amp I have heard with the HD800. It makes these cans shine and delivers all everything that they can provide. I extends well into each extreme and feels very flat but not boring. Detail and soundstage are great if your source and digital files/records send it up stream.

The Stratus has very nice tuby sound. It may have a bit more narrow stage but not at all in a bad way -- again, this is in meet conditions, so please keep that in mind. It feels nice and intimate.

I have not done obsessive back to back comparisons and I am not sure that I ever will. If you have to chose one, consider whether you prefer SS or tube sound and then just go for it. As far as I see it, choosing one over the other is not a matter of what's better but what sound you prefer.

Re HD800 being shrill -- I have only experienced that on a Shiit amp I have heard at a meet. I cannot remember which model it was. Otherwise I have never found it to be an issue. Others who heard GSX with HD800 and have reported that issue before, did not do so with the GSX. Stratus, being a tube amp I doubt would have that issue. I also have heard that source material may also play a role.

Good luck with your decision. Sorry I could not give you more specifics."


----------



## froger

I will add on a bit more based on what I know from reading reviews all over on the 2 amps, GS-X and DNA Stratus:
Aesthetically, I thought GS-X is so beautifully built which was probably one of the main reasons which attracted me to it. The Stratus, on the other hand, really requires an acquired taste to appreciate it fully. 

Both are very versatile which work well with many headphones, but i will say GS-X has an edge over the Stratus, as it seems to work very well even with the most sensitive iem. I will really love to hear to my Westone ES5 from GS-X. In addition, to work with both HD800 and LCD-3, it is reported to require some tubes rolling on the Stratus to bring out the best of each hp, and that will definitely add cost to the amp.

If you look through the thread of each amp, you will notice that while the Stratus thread is only two-third of GS-X thread, I bet the information you can find on the Stratus is at least 3 times more than what you can find out about GS-X on its thread. People seems to go to the thread and prefer to discuss on other things. You basically can summarize the GS-X thread on the use of HD800 in a few lines, "it is a wire with gain", "highly transparent" and " it extends both side of the spectrum very well". I didn't like what I heard when I was pairing an pretty capable solid state amp audio-gd Master 8 with HD800, so when I read through the thread, it really did not give me much confidence that the sound of Hd800 out of GS-X will be what I like. HD800 is not a perfect headphone, so when I read people saying the best thing about GS-X is that it gets out of way and disappears, it did not sound good to me at all. On the other hand, the stratus thread provides so much descriptions and details on how the amp sounds and improves HD800. I have read through that thread 3 times and it never bores or frustrates me. 

One thing I also noticed is that it seems to me like the primary aim of the Stratus is to pair well with HD800 and many owners of Stratus also seem to have that in mind, building their set-up around HD800. On the other hand, at least for the more vocal owners of GS-X, as good as they claim how HD800 sounds on GS-X, it appears to me that quite a number of them actually prefer other headphones set-up.


----------



## mink70

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Were you using the Havana with the other amps? That alone could easily attribute a lot of the changes you're hearing-especially in regards to tonality and warmth.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  Hi Daniel—I've listened to a number of other amps with the Havana, though admittedly not the Zana, which may explain my impressions of it. The Havana with the 1949 Western Electric 396A is a pretty harmonically rich sounding DAC with little to no glare, but it's the Sonett 2 that made the HD800 really enjoyable for the first time.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





froger said:


> One thing I also noticed is that it seems to me like the primary aim of the Stratus is to pair well with HD800 and many owners of Stratus also seem to have that in mind, building their set-up around HD800. On the other hand, at least for the more vocal owners of GS-X, as good as they claim how HD800 sounds on GS-X, it appears to me that quite a number of them actually prefer other headphones set-up.


 
   
  I don't know anything about wire with gain and all that fuss.  What I do know is the GS-X mk2 works very well with every single headphone I own and have owned.  You can get your preferred flavor through your DAC.  This amp is much easier to hear the true sound of your DAC compared to other amps I've heard.  It's hard to tell what DAC your using with the Beta22 it has a pretty strong sound of it's own.
   
  The Stratus on the other hand "may" require some tub rolling.  So I would expect you would want your DAC to be as transparent as possible to get the full benefit of the tubes.


----------



## froger

preproman said:


> I don't know anything about wire with gain and all that fuss.  What I do know is the GS-X mk2 works very well with every single headphone I own and have owned.  You can get your preferred flavor through your DAC.  This amp is much easier to hear the true sound of your DAC compared to other amps I've heard.  It's hard to tell what DAC your using with the Beta22 it has a pretty strong sound of it's own.
> 
> The Stratus on the other hand "may" require some tub rolling.  So I would expect you would want your DAC to be as transparent as possible to get the full benefit of the tubes.


I am not too sure what does hearing the true sound of dac benefits the entire music I am hearing. My aim is just to get the best out of HD800. Definitely will prefer an amp that will make HD800 sound a bit more forgiving with a better body, which are my biggest complaints about it. Making HD800 as transparent as possible is not my main aim, but I can totally understand others who will like to do that.


----------



## preproman

I'm not sure where you get I made any comments on what will benefit you and what won't.  My comment had nothing to do with the HD800 specifically and I surly didn't make any comment about making the HD800 transparent as possible.    
   
  My post was specifically addressing how flexible the GS-X mk2 is with a verity of headphones.  
   
  Sorry, maybe quoting your post was inaccurate.  I was simply stating how you can tell what DAC your using more from the GS-X mk2 compared to other amps I've heard.  
   
  How that relates to the HD800 - well you can take it from there, because it becomes more about preference at that point.


----------



## froger

preproman said:


> I'm not sure where you get I made any comments on what will benefit you and what won't.  My comment had nothing to do with the HD800 specifically and I surly didn't make any comment about making the HD800 transparent as possible.
> 
> My post was specifically addressing how flexible the GS-X mk2 is with a verity of headphones.
> 
> ...



Yes, by quoting me, you have certainly given me an impression that you were trying to explain how GS-X can benefit HD800 as I was comparing the two amps with HD800 and also because this is a HD800 thread. I think what you just said on GS-X is really nothing new, and those comments have been repeated by you and many others in the GS-X thread and also in this thread. That's also why I said one really can't discover much about the amp by reading the GS-X thread, they are still discussing dac at that thread now. Alright, I don't want to derail this thread any further. I do agree with you that it boils down to preference. I guess if you like your Dac and HD800 very much, GS-X will amplify it, if you don't, you better change your Dac if you intend to get the GS-X (not change HD800 of course, as this is a HD800 thread!).


----------



## preproman

Well if your looking for someone to make the choice for you - yeah, good luck with that.  There's enough info in both threads to make an educated decision.
   
  In fact this is the HD800 appreciation thread.  So I guess we should be talking about how much we appreciate this headphone and not what amp we should get for it.  
   
  Good luck in your search.


----------



## magiccabbage

thanks for getting back to me guys, i appreciate it and it does help a lot.


----------



## technica18

I know this probably a long shot but does the Sennheiser Momentum have any resemblance sonically to the HD800?


----------



## LugBug1

HD800's don't work without amplification... Amp matching should be an integral part of a hp appreciation thread imo.
   
  especially a hp like the HD800. Most of us who have owned them for a while know how they can sound very different with different amps. I'd even go so far as to say it would be worthless to appreciate/discuss this headphone without mentioning the amp used.


----------



## palmfish

technica18 said:


> I know this probably a long shot but does the Sennheiser Momentum have any resemblance sonically to the HD800?




No, not at all. My opinion, or course...


----------



## philo50

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> No, not at all. My opinion, or course...


 
  +1


----------



## MickeyVee

I have them both and the answer is No.  They have more of an HD650 signature (dark) but without the detail and soundstage.  Given that, they are a fun portable headphone and I do use them of travelling and falling asleep to. I've tried a bunch of other portable headphones such as the vModa's and HD-25II and these are my favourite by far.
  Quote: 





technica18 said:


> I know this probably a long shot but does the Sennheiser Momentum have any resemblance sonically to the HD800?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

no, they're a good headphone, but the momentum are nothing like HD 800.


----------



## leadbythemelody

I prefer the HD800's for metal/rock with slight eq to the LCD-2's because of its faster sound, is that weird?


----------



## Maxvla

Not weird at all. When I owned both side by side, I had trouble finding any genre in which the LCD-2 could even compete.


----------



## leadbythemelody

And is it weird to think the HD800's have plenty of bass with R&B and such?


----------



## leadbythemelody

Oh okay, I'm not weird


----------



## philo50

Quote: 





leadbythemelody said:


> And is it weird to think the HD800's have plenty of bass with R&B and such?


 
  correctly amped the HD-800's have more than enough bass....and quality bass at that


----------



## leadbythemelody

Okay thanks for your input guys!


----------



## BournePerfect

Owning the HD800 and LCD 2.2 side by side on the Bryston-the LCD doesn't beat the Senn in any area imo, not even bass quantity or impact. Keep in mind this may be THE amp to beat for the Audeze, but the Senn will continue to scale above and beyond this.
   
  *needs to give BHA-1 impressions soon*
   
  -DAniel


----------



## drez

Quote: 





froger said:


> I will add on a bit more based on what I know from reading reviews all over on the 2 amps, GS-X and DNA Stratus:
> Aesthetically, I thought GS-X is so beautifully built which was probably one of the main reasons which attracted me to it. The Stratus, on the other hand, really requires an acquired taste to appreciate it fully.
> 
> Both are very versatile which work well with many headphones, but i will say GS-X has an edge over the Stratus, as it seems to work very well even with the most sensitive iem. I will really love to hear to my Westone ES5 from GS-X. In addition, to work with both HD800 and LCD-3, it is reported to require some tubes rolling on the Stratus to bring out the best of each hp, and that will definitely add cost to the amp.
> ...


 
   
  At the risk of wallet injury, how would you compare Master 8 to GSX mkii?


----------



## froger

Quote: 





drez said:


> At the risk of wallet injury, how would you compare Master 8 to GSX mkii?


 
  I have never heard GS-X before. Sadly, I have not found anyone on head-fi who have heard both either. It is pretty tough to make a decision on these amps when you have no access to hear them.


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Owning the HD800 and LCD 2.2 side by side on the Bryston-the LCD doesn't beat the Senn in any area imo, not even bass quantity or impact. Keep in mind this may be THE amp to beat for the Audeze, but the Senn will continue to scale above and beyond this.
> 
> *needs to give BHA-1 impressions soon*
> 
> -DAniel


 
  wow that is quite surprising to hear. i've been considering grabbing a pair of LCD2.2s to complement my hd800 in the bass department for some genres that I listen to. this makes me question that desire lol


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> wow that is quite surprising to hear. i've been considering grabbing a pair of LCD2.2s to complement my hd800 in the bass department for some genres that I listen to. this makes me question that desire lol


 
  Fostex TH-900 is what you're looking for, much better than the LCD-2 too.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> wow that is quite surprising to hear. i've been considering grabbing a pair of LCD2.2s to complement my hd800 in the bass department for some genres that I listen to. this makes me question that desire lol


 
  Comes down to the entire rig. But on the BHA-1 with the same source-they seem almost identical in the bass-except the HD800 definitely best the Audeze in texture of the bass.
   
  Agreed with Brunk-the TH900 definitely has more bass than eith-although I still preferred the Senns bass as it was less boomy, and never overbearing like the Fostex can be at times imo.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Jd007

The massive bass hump on the FR graph of the TH900 scares me a bit though. I don't want overwhelming bass, just to have it stand out a bit more. I'm thinking of the D5000 actually, if not the LCD2.
   
  Also not sure if I'm crazy or not, but on the WA2, tube warm up makes a big difference in the sound for me. I heard my HD800 tonight after being away for a few days, and they sounded a quite a bit thinner than I remember, and the bass was lacking a bit as well (I started playing music 30s after turning on the amp). I was wondering What was going on, then after 20min or so I realized that the sound got a lot fuller, back to what I remember. never noticed this big of a difference until tonight lol, so now i know to turn on my amp early for warm up


----------



## Takeanidea

jd007 said:


> wow that is quite surprising to hear. i've been considering grabbing a pair of LCD2.2s to complement my hd800 in the bass department for some genres that I listen to. this makes me question that desire lol



 
 I had both for a while but ended up not using the lcd2.2's , they weren't bringing anything better than the hd800 so I sold mine


----------



## leadbythemelody

The HD800 responds well to equalizers too


----------



## preproman

The TH900 IMO is right on the edge of being too bassie.  Anymore bass it will start to bleed.  They are already a tab bit recessed in the mids.  HD800s bass is pretty tight and accurate.  For those with beefy amps the HE-6 and HE-5LE has some good bass as well.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

preproman said:


> The TH900 IMO is right on the edge of being too bassie.  Anymore bass it will start to bleed.  They are already a tab bit recessed in the mids.  HD800s bass is pretty tight and accurate.  For those with beefy amps the HE-6 and HE-5LE has some good bass as well.




+1 

I think hd 800 has pretty decent bass already, the TH-900 is definitely right on the borderline of too bassy, but it depends on the amp, with a good amp its pretty well balanced, at least as much as a D7000

The HE-500 and especially the He-5LE have great bass. I have been wanting to buy an He-5le actually cause it has really punchy midbass and great slam, better than lcd-2

(I also miss lcd-2s midbass slam and punch, the lcd-3 is lighter in the bass)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jd007 said:


> The massive bass hump on the FR graph of the TH900 scares me a bit though. I don't want overwhelming bass, just to have it stand out a bit more. I'm thinking of the D5000 actually, if not the LCD2.
> 
> Also not sure if I'm crazy or not, but on the WA2, tube warm up makes a big difference in the sound for me. I heard my HD800 tonight after being away for a few days, and they sounded a quite a bit thinner than I remember, and the bass was lacking a bit as well (I started playing music 30s after turning on the amp). I was wondering What was going on, then after 20min or so I realized that the sound got a lot fuller, back to what I remember. never noticed this big of a difference until tonight lol, so now i know to turn on my amp early for warm up




I feel like the wa2 really needs some time to warm up as well, especially with GEC tubes and TS5998


----------



## MickeyVee

You guys have my head spinning with talk of the high end amps.. that's what I get for having the HD800 an entering the SummitFi wold.  Anyway, back to my reality, just ordered the Woo WA7.  From everything I've read, it should be a good pairing and hopefully a step up form my Schiit Stack.


----------



## DarKen23

Never been so happy to see my mailman.


----------



## leadbythemelody

I love you HD800's...do you love me? Tee-hee-hee


----------



## BournePerfect

Nice, Ken! Love that stand Jan threw in!
   
  -Daniel


----------



## philo50

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> Never been so happy to see my mailman.


 
  very nice.....


----------



## DarKen23

philo50 said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Never been so happy to see my mailman.
> ...



Hey buddy


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> Never been so happy to see my mailman.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!


 
  Welcome to the club Ken! Now go punish your wallet with a tube amp


----------



## MickeyVee

Congrats! Did you get a balanced cable for the Mjo?
  Quote: 





darken23 said:


> Never been so happy to see my mailman.


----------



## MickeyVee

You mean.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





leadbythemelody said:


> I love you HD800's...do you love me? Tee-hee-hee


----------



## leadbythemelody

OMG LOL. Yes, that was exactly what I mean tee-hee-hee!


----------



## DarKen23

mickeyvee said:


> Congrats! Did you get a balanced cable for the Mjo?
> 
> 
> darken23 said:
> ...



I should be receiving it tomorrow. For now, this is how gangsta I be. Actually it's because I don't have that cable yet LOL.


----------



## palmfish

darken23 said:


> I should be receiving it tomorrow. For now, this is how gangsta I be. Actually it's because I don't have that cable yet LOL.




Nothing wrong with that! 

All of my Pioneer receivers sound great with headphones.


----------



## erikfreedom

you can add the hifiman ef-6 to the list of headphone amps that can drive the hd 800 beautifully. the pairing is sublime. so much that I even prefer it to the sound of hifiman own he-6 driven by the ef-6. if you think the hd 800 lack bass, think again.  the hd 800 has even more bass than the he-6 when driven by the ef-6.  it is a very smooth ,mellow sounding amplifier with a very tube like sound.
   
  if you are shopping for a solid state amp that has great synergy with hd 800 and has tube amp qualities look no further. it is built like a tank, is heavy like a tank and looks much better in person than on pictures. and while not cheap,it is still a bargain a bargain for the performance it delivers. it also has tons of power. it never work very hard.
   
  it also get hot, but I have seen much worse. far much worse...


----------



## DarKen23

brunk said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Never been so happy to see my mailman.
> ...



No! Stop putting ideas in my wallet. Dear god, Ive been eating grilled cheese sandwiches and cup ramen for too long because of you! 











Still...You know its going to happen


----------



## DarKen23

erikfreedom said:


> you can add the hifiman ef-6 to the list of headphone amps that can drive the hd 800 beautifully. the pairing is sublime. so much that I even prefer it to the sound of hifiman own he-6 driven by the ef-6. if you think the hd 800 lack bass, think again.  the hd 800 has even more bass than the he-6 when driven by the ef-6.  it is a very smooth ,mellow sounding amplifier with a very tube like sound.
> 
> if you are shopping for a solid state amp that has great synergy with hd 800 and has tube amp qualities look no further. it is built like a tank, is heavy like a tank and looks much better in person than on pictures. and while not cheap,it is still a bargain a bargain for the performance it delivers. it also has tons of power. it never work very hard.
> 
> it also get hot, but I have seen much worse. far much worse...



Youve described the sound perfectly. The synergy is unreal..The bass is so impactful!

The HD800 is in no way "bass light" as many would have you believe. I actually prefer it over the LCD2.

Maybe I should sell my amp to fund the ef-6. I didnt consider it at the time because I wanted to have a balanced amp. Im not too concern about that amps temp. the hotter they run the harder they kick-ass


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> No! Stop putting ideas in my wallet. Dear god, Ive been eating grilled cheese sandwiches and cup ramen for too long because of you!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Lol! Such is the life of Head-Fi.


----------



## magiccabbage

the ef6 is not that expensive


----------



## philo50

Quote: 





erikfreedom said:


> you can add the hifiman ef-6 to the list of headphone amps that can drive the hd 800 beautifully. the pairing is sublime. so much that I even prefer it to the sound of hifiman own he-6 driven by the ef-6. if you think the hd 800 lack bass, think again.  the hd 800 has even more bass than the he-6 when driven by the ef-6.  it is a very smooth ,mellow sounding amplifier with a very tube like sound.
> 
> if you are shopping for a solid state amp that has great synergy with hd 800 and has tube amp qualities look no further. it is built like a tank, is heavy like a tank and looks much better in person than on pictures. and while not cheap,it is still a bargain a bargain for the performance it delivers. it also has tons of power. it never work very hard.
> 
> it also get hot, but I have seen much worse. far much worse...


 
  +1


----------



## DarKen23

bourneperfect said:


> Nice, Ken! Love that stand Jan threw in!
> 
> -Daniel



Thanks Daniel, yea I'm diggin the stand as well.


----------



## leadbythemelody

The HD800's take rock/metal to a whole new level! I'm just freaking bobbing and twirling my head right now like a lunatic


----------



## DarKen23

leadbythemelody said:


> The HD800's take rock/metal to a whole new level! I'm just freaking bobbing and twirling my head right now like a lunatic



Dang...


----------



## BournePerfect

Every person on this planet needs to listen to Radiohead's Street Spirit (Fade Out) on the HD800s at least once in their life.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Every person on this planet needs to listen to Radiohead's Street Spirit (Fade Out) on the HD800s at least once in their life.
> 
> -Daniel


 





 Defo!


----------



## James-uk

The entire album is just stunning on the 800s!! Love it!


----------



## BournePerfect

Yep-their greatest hits album is probably the easiest for me to leave on in the background without needing to change songs because of some glaring weakness in the recording...same with Brothers in Arms. Street Spirit is just purely mesmerizing on the Senns though-my fave song by far to show of their sound staging and brilliant treble and atmosphere. Brilliant stuff.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Yep-their greatest hits album is probably the easiest for me to leave on in the background without needing to change songs because of some glaring weakness in the recording...same with Brothers in Arms. Street Spirit is just purely mesmerizing on the Senns though-my fave song by far to show of their sound staging and brilliant treble and atmosphere. Brilliant stuff.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  In rainbows sounds amazing on T1. That album has great production


----------



## DarKen23

bourneperfect said:


> Every person on this planet needs to listen to Radiohead's Street Spirit (Fade Out) on the HD800s at least once in their life.
> 
> -Daniel



Listening to the album now


----------



## DarKen23

Random but thought it was funny since "radiohead" was mentioned.


----------



## Gustav Mahler

My hd800s arrived today......listening to The Avison Ensemble - Arcangelo Corelli Opus 5 Violin Sonatas....Linn 24-192....huge smile!
   
  Cheers!
   
  Gus


----------



## FatmanSize48

magiccabbage said:


> In rainbows sounds amazing on T1. That album has great production



Even with loads of dynamic compression, Nigel Godrich still managed to produce an excellent sounding album.

Edit: Does anyone know how to get a copy of the uncompressed stems?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





gustav mahler said:


> My hd800s arrived today......listening to The Avison Ensemble - Arcangelo Corelli Opus 5 Violin Sonatas....Linn 24-192....huge smile!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Gus


 
   
  You're gonna love going through your Classical library with the HD800's.  Congrats!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> Even with loads of dynamic compression, Nigel Godrich still managed to produce an excellent sounding album.
> 
> Edit: Does anyone know how to get a copy of the uncompressed stems?


 
  what do you mean - the album is compressed? why would they do that, you would think they would try and have the best possible sound, especially with all the money they can afford to spend. it does not sound compressed to me.


----------



## magiccabbage

is compression necessarily a bad thing?


----------



## DarKen23

magiccabbage said:


> is compression necessarily a bad thing?



Depends. If you care about sound quality, compression can be bad.


----------



## Sorrodje

Hello happy HD800 owners!
   
  IS anyone know Antique sould lab MG head Tube amp ? it seems it's a quite old OTL tube amp but maybe someone tried this amp with a HD800 ? 
   
  Precisely that model with OTL/transformer outputs:
   

   
   
   
  I found a used one as a decent price (140€) near my home here in France and I'm seriously considering to associate this amp and my HD800.


----------



## FatmanSize48

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> is compression necessarily a bad thing?


 
  I'm talking about dynamic compression, which is bad. Dynamic compression takes out all dynamic range (loud, soft) and makes everything LOUD. The following two minute video explains this better than I could ever hope to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ&pxtry=1


----------



## FatmanSize48

Quote: 





sorrodje said:


> Hello happy HD800 owners!
> 
> IS anyone know Antique sould lab MG head Tube amp ? it seems it's a quite old OTL tube amp but maybe someone tried this amp with a HD800 ?
> 
> ...


 
  It looks expensive, therefore it ought to sound great!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> I'm talking about dynamic compression, which is bad. Dynamic compression takes out all dynamic range (loud, soft) and makes everything LOUD. The following two minute video explains this better than I could ever hope to:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ&pxtry=1


 
  thanks for posting, that explains a lot. why would radiohead opt for that? surely they know there stuff.


----------



## FatmanSize48

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> thanks for posting, that explains a lot. why would radiohead opt for that? surely they know [their] stuff.


 
  They know exactly what is going on.


----------



## DarKen23

AC/DC is fuggin sick..


----------



## DarKen23

Alien technology bruh..


----------



## FatmanSize48

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> Alien technology bruh..


 
  I've never actually seen the HD800 driver before; it look a lot like Beyerdynamic's Tesla driver.


----------



## DarKen23

fatmansize48 said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Alien technology bruh..
> ...


Or..

















alien technology


----------



## leadbythemelody

Brah...


----------



## DarKen23

leadbythemelody said:


> Brah...



I lol'd


----------



## leadbythemelody

LOL


----------



## DarKen23

leadbythemelody said:


> LOL












Ok no more, sorry. Stay on topic!

:evil:


----------



## leadbythemelody

Wait...No!!!!!!
   
  Everything I believed in...to ashes.
   

   
   
  LOL


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Paired my HD800 with the WA6.  I wasn't impressed.  While the dynamics felt more musical, there seems to be a little wanting in power and drive.  I set it to high gain with the volume pot turned up to around 4 o'clock.  
  
  I am considering the WA6-SE and so I borrowed the WA6 from a friend.  Is there a significant difference or improvement in power and resolve from the WA6 to the SE version?


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





sp3llv3xit said:


> Paired my HD800 with the WA6.  I wasn't impressed.  While the dynamics felt more musical, there seems to be a little wanting in power and drive.  I set it to high gain with the volume pot turned up to around 4 o'clock.
> 
> I am considering the WA6-SE and so I borrowed the WA6 from a friend.  Is there a significant difference or improvement in power and resolve from the WA6 to the SE version?


 
   
  The answer is yes. Even though they share the same number, the two are largely different and really aren't comparable. If you have the budget for a WA6-SE, then you will not regret it. Expect significantly more power and a dryer less tubey sound. 

 However, it sounds like the WA6 would benefit from some tube rolling, what driver tubes is your friend using? May I suggest the 6SN7s? Or 6GL7s? I never need to go past 1 O'clock on my WA6 with the HD 800 (and that's when I really want to rock it). Usually it's between 10-12 O'clock.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> The answer is yes. Even though they share the same number, the two are largely different and really aren't comparable. If you have the budget for a WA6-SE, then you will not regret it. Expect significantly more power and a dryer less tubey sound.
> 
> However, it sounds like the WA6 would benefit from some tube rolling, what driver tubes is your friend using? May I suggest the 6SN7s? Or 6GL7s? I never need to go past 1 O'clock on my WA6 with the HD 800 (and that's when I really want to rock it). Usually it's between 10-12 O'clock.


 

 He uses the Sylvannia tubes.  And while I appreciate the body and extension the tubes give to the highs, the soundstage seems to be shrunk substantially.  

 Does the WA6-SE retain the strength of the HD800s?  Or does it shrink the wide and airy soundstage of the Sennheisers also?


----------



## scolaiw

Quote: 





sp3llv3xit said:


> He uses the Sylvannia tubes.  And while I appreciate the body and extension the tubes give to the highs, the soundstage seems to be shrunk substantially.
> 
> Does the WA6-SE retain the strength of the HD800s?  Or does it shrink the wide and airy soundstage of the Sennheisers also?


 

 I see.... Well I think he should definitely be looking into other tubes if he wants to use the WA6 with the HD800s. If he likes the treble extension then maybe some 7N7s would do the trick (and still keep soundstage wide). 

 I can't comment too much on the SE because I've only heard them a few times. The changes I described though were very obvious and apparent, so that's for certain. If you want to know more in depth detail about the HD 800 and WA6-SE, I would pm Dubstep Girl. Her WA6-SE is her baby. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 P.s. Nice pictures. Forgot to compliment you on the photos before.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Quote: 





scolaiw said:


> I see.... Well I think he should definitely be looking into other tubes if he wants to use the WA6 with the HD800s. If he likes the treble extension then maybe some 7N7s would do the trick (and still keep soundstage wide).
> 
> I can't comment too much on the SE because I've only heard them a few times. The changes I described though were very obvious and apparent, so that's for certain. If you want to know more in depth detail about the HD 800 and WA6-SE, I would pm Dubstep Girl. Her WA6-SE is her baby.
> 
> ...


 


 Thanks for your inputs, sir.

 I have already communicated with Dubstep Girl that is why I borrowed the WA6 that she sold to my friend.  On this score, I think I shall do as you advised.  Hope she won't mind the bother.  Once again, thank you for taking your time to reply to my queries.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

The wa6-se is known for having a wide soundstage. More than my wa2 as well. 

The wa6-se never goes past 9-10 o clock with hd 800s its very powerful and capable, its faster and more ss like, but can also get pretty lush with good tube rolling. And you can always use more powerful tubes as well. Even with lcd-2 i found it to be as good as burson soloist/conductor, so it has the power and dynamics


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> thanks for posting, that explains a lot. why would radiohead opt for that? surely they know there stuff.


 
  All pop/rock music is compressed otherwise it wouldn't sound as good (or bad . Try recording live drums and electric guitar,keyboards etc without compression and you would either one huge distorted mess or to minimise distortion it would be too soft/quiet to appreciate. The sounds have to be squashed in order to make them as loud as each other without losing their intended impact. Acoustic instruments are different because you can gage the dynamics/peaks with mics before you record and then mixing is all you should need to do. Although most drums would still need to be squashed into a pleasing noise to fit the picture.
  Its a very hard recording practice with classical music trying to replicate that live performance and to be true to the natural dynamics, but even then you will still most likely have to use some compression with brass and timpani for example. But as a general rule recorded classical music is the best for dynamics if you want to test your equipment. 
   
  With Radiohead you have such an array of sounds from acoustic to electronic, they make musical soup! If no compression was used it would be un-listenable. It's as dynamic as it can possibly be though, as that is the job of the producer to do this. To be fair Radiohead albums do actually sound very dynamic compared to most pop.


----------



## Jd007

what's a good solid state amp for the hd800 in the $1k-$1.5k range? i have the love my hd800s with the wa2 but it gets kinda hot especially now in the summer. i've tried the v200 and found the soundstage to be lacking so i sold.


----------



## BournePerfect

Nuforce Dac100. Best ss amp under a grand for the HD800s I've heard-and a dac that competes with every other $1,000 dac, and bests the Gungnir by a fair margin imo. Excellent piece of kit.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> what's a good solid state amp for the hd800 in the $1k-$1.5k range? i have the love my hd800s with the wa2 but it gets kinda hot especially now in the summer. i've tried the v200 and found the soundstage to be lacking so i sold.


 
  I heard the Bryston BHA-1 does a nice job....Anyone agree?....Daniel?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> I heard the Bryston BHA-1 does a nice job....Anyone agree?....Daniel?


 
  I thought it was a good amp. I might say I still prefer the Soloist to it in the same price range though. I'm a big fan of Bryston's products and I'm very seriously considering a BDA-2 DAC upgrade soon.


----------



## erikfreedom

I have owned the bryston bha-1 and found it an average match for the hd 800. I returned it to the dealer after only a couple of days. get an hifiman ef-6. you'll thank me later.
   
  that thing has unreal synergy with hd 800. in that price bracket I seriously doubt there is much better solid state amps. the ef-6 has a much better synergy than my own 3 channel b22. and the b22 drives the hd 800 beautifully.
   
  my friend own a v200. I almost pulled the trigger on one myself. there is always one popping up on canuckaudiomart almost every month.  the v200 is a great amplifier, but the ef-6 has a much better synergy with the hd 800 and better soundstage too.
   
  if I ever buy another amplifier for my hd 800 it is going to be an allnic audio hpa 5000.  there is a distributor in Canada that has one in stock and I am darn tempted to pull the trigger. but it is insanely expensive.


----------



## BournePerfect

Well I'm pretty hard to please when it comes to ss amps for the HD800-I do really like the Bryston with it-but just as important is getting the dac to play well too since the BHA-1/HD800 is so revealing.It's good enought to keep as a second balanced cheap(ish) ss option for when my Levi arrives though, yeah. I have a feeling that the Ragnarok of all things might actually boost the Bryston's popularity around here when it arrives. Assuming reports are true that it will be 'just' a more powerful Mjolnir (personally, I don't think we know Schiit yet)-I could see the BHA-1 becoming a sleeper hit since it will be cheaper, and since most people who have heard both (MJ & Bryston) seem to prefer the Bryston, sound-wise. Or, I'm just thinking too much. 
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

allnic hpa5000 i wish i had that, seems like its the perfect all in one solution


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Well I'm pretty hard to please when it comes to ss amps for the HD800-I do really like the Bryston with it-but just as important is getting the dac to play well too since the BHA-1/HD800 is so revealing.It's good enought to keep as a second balanced cheap(ish) ss option for when my Levi arrives though, yeah. I have a feeling that the Ragnarok of all things might actually boost the Bryston's popularity around here when it arrives. Assuming reports are true that it will be 'just' a more powerful Mjolnir (personally, I don't think we know Schiit yet)-I could see the BHA-1 becoming a sleeper hit since it will be cheaper, and since most people who have heard both (MJ & Bryston) seem to prefer the Bryston, sound-wise. Or, I'm just thinking too much.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  Gotta say that the BDA-2 was a very enticing DAC. Something I still fondly remember a few months after I heard it at home. (Belonged zare: to a friend who is close by).


----------



## BournePerfect

If I wasn't saving for an MSB Analog or Overdrive SE-I would have the BDA-2 right now I think. Just can't afford the inevitable buy and sell hit I'd take knowing I'd sell it in a couple of months to help fund the former. I'm sure I'll be eating my words in a month-ish. Has anyone here had the Bryston stack with the HD800s yet? Seems like I saw someone with just that...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Gotta say that the BDA-2 was a very enticing DAC. Something I still fondly remember a few months after I heard it at home. (Belonged zare: to a friend who is close by).


 
  what price is that dac?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> what price is that dac?


 
  MSRP is like $2350 I think...but I've found a local dealer here where I can get it for $2000. I preferred it to many more expensive DACs like the PWD2.


----------



## BournePerfect

Moon Audio's site has the list price as $2395, but when I emailed Drew about a possible order, he quoted me $2150.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> MSRP is like $2350 I think...but I've found a local dealer here where I can get it for $2000. I preferred it to many more expensive DACs like the PWD2.


 
  it looks great i will have to add it to the list. anyone hear the new arcam? its in the same price range but i cant imagine it competing


----------



## DarKen23

Got it on the balanced cable.


----------



## BournePerfect

How's that sounding with the MJ/Yulong? Good match?
   
  -Daniel
   
  edit: lovely pics btw


----------



## DarKen23

bourneperfect said:


> How's that sounding with the MJ/Yulong? Good match?
> 
> -Daniel



Had to spend some time on the EQ, not amazing but its good.


----------



## philo50

those are beautiful cables.....


----------



## BournePerfect

In the end, I found the MJ a tad too bright and dry for the HD800s-the Bryston is better still, but not completely ideal either. (At the price I got it for, it was ;P). Also-why haven't you bought Snapple's Zana Deux #11 yet? Sell your car, damnit.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## DarKen23

bourneperfect said:


> In the end, I found the MJ a tad too bright and dry for the HD800s-the Bryston is better still, but not completely ideal either. (At the price I got it for, it was ;P). Also-why haven't you bought Snapple's Zana Deux #11 yet? Sell your car, damnit.
> 
> -Daniel



Youre actually right on the money, its rather bright. Any brighter and Id have to let it go-which Im seriously considering. The MJs werent designed for high imp. phones. But with orthos I enjoyed the MJ quite a bit.

Selling that El Camino was risky 

I just now started getting into tubes, I need to learn more first, leave me alone


----------



## DarKen23

philo50 said:


> those are beautiful cables.....



Thanks buddy. TOTL from Artemis Cables, the quality is unreal.


----------



## DarKen23

erikfreedom said:


> I have owned the bryston bha-1 and found it an average match for the hd 800. I returned it to the dealer after only a couple of days. get an hifiman ef-6. you'll thank me later.
> 
> that thing has unreal synergy with hd 800. in that price bracket I seriously doubt there is much better solid state amps. the ef-6 has a much better synergy than my own 3 channel b22. and the b22 drives the hd 800 beautifully.
> 
> ...



I really wished the ef-6 had xlr connections, cant understand why it wasnt a option. I hope they come out with a new unit with more connections for users to choose from, my D18 yields a different sound between xlr and rca.


----------



## BournePerfect

I've personally found a lot of amps with 'synergy' with the HD800-tend to also limit a lot of it's potential (m-Stage, Phonitor). Not sure how the EF-6 sounds-but 'warm' amps that synergize well also do so at the expense of details and soundstaging imo. It's a tightrope when it comes to the HD800, that's for sure.
   
  Also-a 'couple of days' with the BHA-1 doesn't mean jack-no offense. The Bryston (and MJ, for that matter), were the two ss amps I had that changed the most (for the better!) with burn in. The MJ was beyond harsh with the HD800 until over 100 hours burn in. My BHA-1 seemed to improve by the day with the Senn-and it was a used unit (although I doubt it had very many hours on it).
   
  To the brain burn in theorists: Nope. Sorry, I maybe listened 5 minutes a night with both amps until they finally became 'listenable'. 
   
  -Daniel


----------



## DarKen23

bourneperfect said:


> I've personally found a lot of amps with 'synergy' with the HD800-tend to also limit a lot of it's potential (m-Stage, Phonitor). Not sure how the EF-6 sounds-but 'warm' amps that synergize well also do so at the expense of details and soundstaging imo. It's a tightrope when it comes to the HD800, that's for sure.
> 
> Also-a 'couple of days' with the BHA-1 doesn't mean jack-no offense. The Bryston (and MJ, for that matter), were the two ss amps I had that changed the most (for the better!) with burn in. The MJ was beyond harsh with the HD800 until over 100 hours burn in. My BHA-1 seemed to improve by the day with the Senn-and it was a used unit (although I doubt it had very many hours on it).
> 
> ...



Its a shame you never heard the D18 with MJ. The D18 is probably the reason it doesnt sound beyond harsh using the 800s and MJ. Even though I said its a "tad bright", its not anywhere near harsh or painfully piercing. I havent had too much time with everything in my setup, ill have a much better say about the current setup with time. For now, no compliments-but nothing worth doing double back flips for.


----------



## BournePerfect

I was more referring to the burn in factor on the MJ-went from 'beyond harsh and unlistenable' with the HD800-to 'pretty darn good for it's price'. Even though many here claim it's ALL ABOUT THE DAC DAMNIT with that combo-I found the MJ was just to bright and dry with the Senns-regardless. Pretty sure Schiit tuned it more for the Audezes-and a plethora of Schiit/Audeze owners wouldn't argue. 
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Curse

Very nice cables!


----------



## nk77

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> Thanks buddy. TOTL from Artemis Cables, the quality is unreal.


 
   
  I've always (and by that I mean not always) wondered about those Artemis Cables - don't see much written about them. A few impressions hear (tee-hee) and there but not as much as the other cable manufacturers out there......So is it the BOW Darken?


----------



## Maxvla

erikfreedom said:


> I have owned the bryston bha-1 and found it an average match for the hd 800. I returned it to the dealer after only a couple of days. get an hifiman ef-6. you'll thank me later.
> 
> that thing has unreal synergy with hd 800. in that price bracket I seriously doubt there is much better solid state amps. the ef-6 has a much better synergy than my own 3 channel b22. and the b22 drives the hd 800 beautifully.
> 
> ...



That would be surprising. I've never heard the EF6 with the HD800, but did hear it with it's intended headphone the HE-6 and it wasn't very good.


----------



## BournePerfect

Maxvla-he didn't burn in the Bryston, and I can only assume the EF-6 must sound like mud. 
   
  -Daniel


----------



## erikfreedom

ef-6 with he-6. I d'ont like this combo at all. he-500 is ok on the ef-6.
   
  hd 800 is incredible with ef-6. that is you want to have euphonic sounding hd 800 with thunderous bass. if you are looking for micro details and ultimate fidelity, look elsewhere.
   
  i prefer my hd 800 to have a smooth, slightly lush sound with plenty of bass. if i wanted to have a microscope i would have bought something like a gsx mk2 a dynahi or i would plug my hd 800 into a first watt fj1.
   
  that kind of sound does not interest me at all exept for the dynahi. i would sell a part of my collection for a well built dynahi no doubt.
   
  but i know that a lot of people here crave that sound. ef-6 is a very warm sounding amp. but a very fine amplifier for the hd 800 nonetheless.


----------



## palmfish

erikfreedom said:


> ef-6 with he-6. I d'ont like this combo at all. he-500 is ok on the ef-6.
> 
> hd 800 is incredible with ef-6. that is you want to have euphonic sounding hd 800 with thunderous bass. if you are looking for micro details and ultimate fidelity, look elsewhere.
> 
> ...




Sounds like you could have gotten an HD650 or LCD-2 and spared yourself the effort and "taming" the HD800?


----------



## BournePerfect

That's kind of what I was expecting, impressions wise. Reminds me of the m-Stage with the HD800-great synergy (warmth, great mids, good bass), but at the expense of the subtlety the HD800 is capable of. An easy compromise at $250-not so much at $1600 imo.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## DarKen23

palmfish said:


> erikfreedom said:
> 
> 
> > ef-6 with he-6. I d'ont like this combo at all. he-500 is ok on the ef-6.
> ...



Why..He has a viable reason


----------



## palmfish

darken23 said:


> Why..He has a viable reason




I didnt say it wasnt viable. Just that it seems to me like he doesnt like the very attributes that define the HD800.


----------



## BournePerfect

...because the LCDs simply won't scale as high as the Senns.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## DarKen23

palmfish said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Why..He has a viable reason
> ...


----------



## Curse

Quote: 





nk77 said:


> I've always (and by that I mean not always) wondered about those Artemis Cables - don't see much written about them. A few impressions hear (tee-hee) and there but not as much as the other cable manufacturers out there......So is it the BOW Darken?


 
   
  I've only seen their name a few times but i hear they make some good sound cables.
   
  Did some research and i believe it's a "Bow" with DNA colored sleeves. 
  I wonder how much they go for. I'd get one in black and white. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Too bad im broke. Waiting on more welfair checks!
   
  Still waiting for my HD-800's to come in the mail. Gotta compare it to the LCD-3 and LCD-2 on the Schiit Gungnir/Mjolnir stack.
  Wonder how it will fare..


----------



## erikfreedom

with hd 800, ef-6 has as much micro details as my 3 channel b22. bass is much more thunderous. soundstage is wider and much more holographic and it is even more euphonic too than the b22. so at 1600 bucks for the ef-6 I consider it is a bargain. a professionally build 3 channel b22 cost more than 1600 bucks. ef-6 is a very nice amplifier. but it is not a very well know amplifier. most people think of this amplifier as an amp to drive the he-6 and hifiman advertise the amp as such, but it would be a mistake to overlook it. this amp is incredible with hd 800. not muddy at all.
   
  a lot of people here would like to tame the hd 800 treble a bit and have it a bit more euphonic sounding and have much more bass. well with the ef-6 there you go. and you still have micro details and great soundstage.
   
  no need for mods to tame treble with this amp.
   
   
  I could not listen to metal and electronica before with my hd 800, it was not very enjoyable, I had to use my he-500 or my d7000, now I can listen to every genres with hd 800.


----------



## DarKen23

erikfreedom said:


> with hd 800, ef-6 has as much micro details as my 3 channel b22. bass is much more thunderous. soundstage is wider and much more holographic and it is even more euphonic too than the b22. so at 1600 bucks for the ef-6 I consider it is a bargain. a professionally build 3 channel b22 cost more than 1600 bucks. ef-6 is a very nice amplifier. but it is not a very well know amplifier. most people think of this amplifier as an amp to drive the he-6 and hifiman advertise the amp as such, but it would be a mistake to overlook it. this amp is incredible with hd 800. not muddy at all.
> 
> a lot of people here would like to tame the hd 800 treble a bit and have it a bit more euphonic sounding and have much more bass. well with the ef-6 there you go. and you still have micro details and great soundstage.
> 
> ...



what youve described is similar to the pioneer receiver Ive used prior to my stack-which I actually enjoyed more in certain areas, but it lacked detail. EF-6 could possibly be what Im looking for.

























When xlr inputs are available.


----------



## erikfreedom

*NEUTRALITY KING:* In my opinion, the HD800 is _the_ neutrality king. Depending on the setup, the HD800 may sound warm or bright. Because of its finicky nature with regard to amplification, many have described the HD800 as bright, but I cannot get on board with this description. I have heard the same pair of HD800's sound both dark and bright when paired with different setups. It really is a very amp-dependent headphone.
   
  this is from david Mahler battle of the flagships review.
   
  there is a dude here that was saying like I was not appreciating the attributes of the hd 800. sorry my friend but since the hd 800 is the neutrality king I see it as a blank canvas. and I paint the picture I want. and the picture I want is one of euphony and warmth. that is the beauty of the hd 800. it is the headphone with the most possibilities to tailor the sound you like, since you are starting with something that is neutral.
   
  when you have a headphone like a denon d7000. such a thing is not as easy to do. as this headphone already has a strong sound signature.


----------



## Curse

Quote: 





erikfreedom said:


> *NEUTRALITY KING:* In my opinion, the HD800 is _the_ neutrality king. Depending on the setup, the HD800 may sound warm or bright. Because of its finicky nature with regard to amplification, many have described the HD800 as bright, but I cannot get on board with this description. I have heard the same pair of HD800's sound both dark and bright when paired with different setups. It really is a very amp-dependent headphone.
> 
> this is from david Mahler battle of the flagships review.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I agree with this.
   
  With the HD-800, the sound signature will come from amplifier so it's best to bring your phones and demo amps before sealing the deal.


----------



## DarKen23

erikfreedom said:


> *NEUTRALITY KING:* In my opinion, the HD800 is _the_ neutrality king. Depending on the setup, the HD800 may sound warm or bright. Because of its finicky nature with regard to amplification, many have described the HD800 as bright, but I cannot get on board with this description. I have heard the same pair of HD800's sound both dark and bright when paired with different setups. It really is a very amp-dependent headphone.
> 
> this is from david Mahler battle of the flagships review.
> 
> ...


----------



## erikfreedom

the only thing I lack is a proper cable for my hd 800. I have been listening to them for over a year and I still have the stock cable. I am interested by alo audio reference 16. I love the look of this cable. it is thick and appear to be very well made. there is also Stefan audioart cables. love his stuff too. but I think I will go with the alo audio cable. it is very nice.


----------



## DarKen23

erikfreedom said:


> the only thing I lack is a proper cable for my hd 800. I have been listening to them for over a year and I still have the stock cable. I am interested by alo audio reference 16. I love the look of this cable. it is thick and appear to be very well made. there is also Stefan audioart cables. love his stuff too. but I think I will go with the alo audio cable. it is very nice.



LOL..
Sorry but alo charges appalling prices for cheap quality cables compared to some others.
I highly recommend going with artemis, much better in both aesthetics as well as sonics.


----------



## erikfreedom

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> LOL..
> Sorry but alo charges appalling prices for cheap quality cables compared to some others.
> I highly recommend going with artemis, much better in both aesthetics as well as sonics.


 
  yeah, thanks for the advice. I have to admit that I have not taken the time to investigate what cables are great for the hd 800. I think I will do some further investigation. the alo cable look nice though ah ah.


----------



## Curse

Quote: 





erikfreedom said:


> yeah, thanks for the advice. I have to admit that I have not taken the time to investigate what cables are great for the hd 800. I think I will do some further investigation. the alo cable look nice though ah ah.


 
  Reference 16 looks darn heavy.
   
  Very doubt that the HD800 would need any more than 4 wires, let alone 8, 12, or even 16. The connector pin is tiny.


----------



## DarKen23

erikfreedom said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > LOL..
> ...



650.00 for a 4ft (which NOBODY gets) cable PLATED in silver of a mere ofc quality copper wire is insulting. Where's the love.


----------



## Curse

I'm still wondering if my HD-800 (soon to be mailed) will be model # 2XXX or 2XXXX. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Definitely going to grab an Artemis cable for sure (darkens recommendation).
  Now the hard part is the color.
  My HD-800 will be white and black. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Decisions decisions.


----------



## erikfreedom

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> 650.00 for a 4ft (which NOBODY gets) cable PLATED in silver of a mere ofc quality copper wire is insulting. Where's the love.


 
  I am trying to find info on artemis cables but their website is not ready yet. I need a single ended cable for my hd 800, terminated in 1/4 , 8 feet long.


----------



## nk77

Quote: 





erikfreedom said:


> I am trying to find info on artemis cables but their website is not ready yet. I need a single ended cable for my hd 800, terminated in 1/4 , 8 feet long.


 
  They have items on ebay.


----------



## nk77

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> 650.00 for a 4ft (which NOBODY gets) cable PLATED in silver of a mere ofc quality copper wire is insulting. Where's the love.


 
   
  Yes 4ft is a silly length, I notice several 'cable' companies sell at that length. If I may ask for reference - what price did you pay for the Artemis TOTL cable?
   
  EDIT: Feel free to PM me as this is probably off-topic.


----------



## DarKen23

nk77 said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > 650.00 for a 4ft (which NOBODY gets) cable PLATED in silver of a mere ofc quality copper wire is insulting. Where's the love.
> ...


----------



## Curse

Quote: 





nk77 said:


> Yes 4ft is a silly length, I notice several 'cable' companies sell at that length. If I may ask for reference - what price did you pay for the Artemis TOTL cable?
> 
> EDIT: Feel free to PM me as this is probably off-topic.


 
   
  Haha! That's like IEM Length.
  You should send them an email on the website.
   
  Anyway yeah, back to topic.
  I'm dying here. I want to compare the HD-800 to my old LCD-3. I never got the chance of hearing the HD-800 on a decent amplifier before (Had it running with Objective Amp and E17), so i decided to get another one. I hope it doesn't let me down!


----------



## nk77

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!


 
   
  I'll take that as 'it's a secret'?
   
  EDIT: Sometimes I need to add a disclaimer - I'm not defending prices or talking about cable differences. I was just interested in the pricing of Artemis cables that's all...curiosity does indeed kill the cat or in this case the discussion. It's relatively well priced although the prices for the higher end gear from Artemis is comparable to the other cable manufacturers....


----------



## Curse

Quote: 





nk77 said:


> I'll take that as 'it's a secret'?
> 
> EDIT: Sometimes I need to add a disclaimer - I'm not defending prices or talking about cable differences. I was just interested in the pricing of Artemis cables that's all...curiosity does indeed kill the cat or in this case the discussion. It's relatively well priced although the prices for the higher end gear from Artemis is comparable to the other cable manufacturers....


 
   
  Low/Mid looks to be priced cheaper than other manufacturers while higher end is comparable (you're right).
  Seems like they offer more aesthetic choices than the competition though without much additional fees.
   
  I just got quoted for a reference 4-wire cable. two and a half racks. Not bad. Ships free too.


----------



## DarKen23

nk77 said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...



Shall I tell you that I paid 50.00 or 1,000.00? You can always shoot an email with whichever builder you feel like that day, i picked artemis because it was a tuesday. If you havent noticed, my plugs are CF rhodium plugs, therefore prices have a wide range. Regardless of where I bought it from, If it doesnt show a price on his/her website-its rather rude for me to just start waving my receipt around in the air.


----------



## DarKen23

nk77 said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > 650.00 for a 4ft (which NOBODY gets) cable PLATED in silver of a mere ofc quality copper wire is insulting. Where's the love.
> ...



thumbs up for the edit


----------



## preproman

It's very interesting to read all the impressions on these various SS amps with the HD800s.  We all hear different and have different preferences of course.  However, from my experience, if I only owned the HD800 and it was going to stay my only headphone. * I would not go out and buy the:*  *EF-6, B22, BHA-1, F1J, or the Mjolnir - Just for the HD800s.  *If I had to pick one of these it would most likely be the BHA-1..  Note:  I still have not heard the Soloist.   Most of these amps are a tad bit tilted to the bright side of neutral and the B22 is a tad bit rounded a little to much for the HD800 IMO..
   
  The Dynahi is the next SS amp I will try with the HD800.  Also, I put in a order for the EC 2Ax4.  Lets see what happens..


----------



## DarKen23

preproman said:


> It's very interesting to read all the impressions on these various SS amps with the HD800s.  We all hear different and have different preferences of course.  However, from my experience, if I only owned the HD800 and it was going to stay my only headphone. * I would not go out and buy the:*  *EF-6, B22, BHA-1, F1J, or the Mjolnir - Just for the HD800s.  *If I had to pick one of these it would most likely be the BHA-1..  Note:  I still have not heard the Soloist.   Most of these amps are a tad bit tilted to the bright side of neutral and the B22 is a tad bit rounded a little to much for the HD800 IMO..
> 
> The Dynahi is the next SS amp I will try with the HD800.  Also, I put in a order for the EC 2Ax4.  Lets see what happens..



 your not the first to recommend the bha-1. I got the MJ prior to the HD800. Now, I really want to see what the stir is all about. Another recommendation was M stage, best 300.00 amp for the 800s. Littledot mkvi also up in the air.


----------



## preproman

Lost of good things are being about the Soloist / Conductor pairing with the HD800.  Now I think you can get your choice of DAC chip with a certain Conductor amp.


----------



## Curse

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Lost of good things are being about the Soloist / Conductor pairing with the HD800.  Now I think you can get your choice of DAC chip with a certain Conductor amp.


 
  I'll take the GS-X mk2.


----------



## nk77

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> Shall I tell you that I paid 50.00 or 1,000.00? You can always shoot an email with whichever builder you feel like that day, i picked artemis because it was a tuesday. If you havent noticed, my plugs are CF rhodium plugs, therefore prices have a wide range. Regardless of where I bought it from, If it doesnt show a price on his/her website-its rather rude for me to just start waving my receipt around in the air.


 
   
  You can tell me whatever you like. Did Artemis make the cable for you? I might shoot them an email. I was just interested in the total cost as I may get something made for the ol' HE-500 and wanted to compare your custom CF rhodium plug version pricing to the _cheeeaap_ ALO price you mentioned (purely for reference). I may be getting ripped off by Artemis and I won't even know it for something no better than some Canare quad mic cable....Fingers crossed..
  Quote: 





darken23 said:


> thumbs up for the edit


 
   
  Thank you.


----------



## DarKen23

nk77 said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Shall I tell you that I paid 50.00 or 1,000.00? You can always shoot an email with whichever builder you feel like that day, i picked artemis because it was a tuesday. If you havent noticed, my plugs are CF rhodium plugs, therefore prices have a wide range. Regardless of where I bought it from, If it doesnt show a price on his/her website-its rather rude for me to just start waving my receipt around in the air.
> ...



In your case, I highly recommend getting a quote from multiple sources, should give you a good idea. Might want to do some investigating with the types of wires as well so that you dont get "ripped off", mirco-fragments in my cable are of rarity and can only be obtain from the planet Uranus in the month of October-its the main reason my cable sounds so fuggin epic.
You responded a few times to my post, might as well go ahead with the email.


----------



## nk77

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> In your case, I highly recommend getting a quote from multiple sources, should give you a good idea. Might want to do some investigating with the types of wires as well so that you dont get "ripped off", mirco-fragments in my cable are of rarity and can only be obtain from the planet Uranus in the month of October-its the main reason my cable sounds so fuggin epic.
> You responded a few times to my post, might as well go ahead with the email.


 
   
  I see...that must have jacked the prices up to unfathomable heights. I should have waited till October to send the email. But let's digress as again we are bordering off-topic territory...To remain on-topic I will end with - I appreciate the HD-800.


----------



## DarKen23

nk77 said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > In your case, I highly recommend getting a quote from multiple sources, should give you a good idea. Might want to do some investigating with the types of wires as well so that you dont get "ripped off", mirco-fragments in my cable are of rarity and can only be obtain from the planet Uranus in the month of October-its the main reason my cable sounds so fuggin epic.
> ...



I couldnt agree more. The HD800 fuggin rock.


----------



## nk77

Quote: 





preproman said:


> *The Dynahi is the next SS amp I will try with the HD800*.  Also, I put in a order for the EC 2Ax4.  Lets see what happens..


 
  How long have you got to go for the Dynahi?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





nk77 said:


> How long have you got to go for the Dynahi?


 
   
  Don't really know.  the builder has a lot going on.


----------



## BobJS

Best amp/dac I've heard for the HD-800 .... or most other phones?  Two words:
   
   
  Burson Conductor.
   
   
  Anyone interested in buying a LD MKIV/SE with a tube collection?


----------



## magiccabbage

Man this thread moved fast! A while back somebody mentioned the EF6 having good bass with HD800, I wonder how the WA2 fairs? I know it will be smooth but will there be any bang down below. I have T1/WA2 and i'm just wondering how much ass i'm gonna loose when i get the HD800?


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> *how much ass i'm gonna loose when i get the HD800?*


 




   
  Sorry, can't resist.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





khaine1711 said:


> Sorry, can't resist.


 
  well? how much?


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





preproman said:


> . * Also, I put in a order for the EC 2Ax4.  Lets see what happens..  *


 
   
  *sniffles*
   
  I feel kinda like a proud father right now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait to hear comparisons with your GSX. Also-EC requires 150-200 hours burn in ime. Which SUCKS when it comes to tubes amps. :/
   
  -Daniel


----------



## khaine1711

Matched quad of Rca 2a3 mono plate incoming, prepoman?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Hd 800 and wa2 definitely has plenty of bass, at least as much as t1, more or less depending on the recording and how it favors each headphone, but its pretty close, the bass is especially nice with tung sol 5998, though the. Gec 6as7g have good bass as well, and insanely good synergy with the hd 800, makes my wa2 seem like it would cost alot more


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Hd 800 and wa2 definitely has plenty of bass, at least as much as t1, more or less depending on the recording and how it favors each headphone, but its pretty close, the bass is especially nice with tung sol 5998, though the. Gec 6as7g have good bass as well, and insanely good synergy with the hd 800, makes my wa2 seem like it would cost alot more


 
  That is great news. Why did I have it in my head that the HD800 would sound thinner on the WA2 than the T1? Maybe I was mistaking warmer for more bass.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





khaine1711 said:


> Matched quad of Rca 2a3 mono plate incoming, prepoman?


 
  How are thoses bad boys?


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





preproman said:


> How are thoses bad boys?


 
  The best NOS 2A3, cost a liver and quite hard to find though. Granted I've never heard any 2A3 headphone amp, but with speaker amp, they're magical, refined, airy and frankly a big leap compared to modern production 2A3 (I haven't heard the AVVT or KR 2A3).
   
  Your amp needs 4 however


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





erikfreedom said:


> *NEUTRALITY KING:* In my opinion, the HD800 is _the_ neutrality king. Depending on the setup, the HD800 may sound warm or bright. Because of its finicky nature with regard to amplification, many have described the HD800 as bright, but I cannot get on board with this description. I have heard the same pair of HD800's sound both dark and bright when paired with different setups. It really is a very amp-dependent headphone.
> 
> this is from david Mahler battle of the flagships review.
> 
> ...


 
  They are the neutrality kings... With a little added treble energy. I've never found them too bright, but to be fair they do have a slightly emphasised top end. 
   
  I also like them warmed up and bassy, my pick of SS amp would be (predictably ) a vintage amplifier. Sansui to be exact. Big sound stage, warmth, just big everything! Oh, and with smooth treble. Yes, very smooth. Buttery I would say. Slippery as an Eel that has been dipped in to 'extra virgin' olive oil.


----------



## DarKen23

lugbug1 said:


> erikfreedom said:
> 
> 
> > *NEUTRALITY KING:* In my opinion, the HD800 is _the_ neutrality king. Depending on the setup, the HD800 may sound warm or bright. Because of its finicky nature with regard to amplification, many have described the HD800 as bright, but I cannot get on board with this description. I have heard the same pair of HD800's sound both dark and bright when paired with different setups. It really is a very amp-dependent headphone.
> ...


I agree with you half way. I've not heard brightness from the 800s. But the HD800 cannot be crowned as the "neutrality king" with added treble energy along with any emphasis at top end imho. I assume this "brightness" is confused with detail, the level of detail the HD800 presents is amazing to me, but might come off as "bright" to others.


----------



## Hubert481

Regarding to BHA-1 burn in...
>>Each BHA-1 is fully QC-ed and gets a 100 hour burn-in before it leaves the factory.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/bryston-bha-1-fully-balanced-headphone-amplifier


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





hubert481 said:


> Regarding to BHA-1 burn in...
> >>Each BHA-1 is fully QC-ed and gets a 100 hour burn-in before it leaves the factory.
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/bryston-bha-1-fully-balanced-headphone-amplifier


 
  Cool. Too bad it takes about another 150-250 hours at home before it's sound finalizes.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## DarKen23

bourneperfect said:


> hubert481 said:
> 
> 
> > Regarding to BHA-1 burn in...
> ...



Dan,
I purchased  cancelled the A18 

Selling the D18 to lay the smack on the DA8


----------



## Maxvla

I've noticed no change in my BHA-1 but someone I loaned it to for a couple of weeks said it changed in that period. Still sounds the same as when I opened it up over 3000 hours-played ago.


----------



## DarKen23

maxvla said:


> I've noticed no change in my BHA-1 but someone I loaned it to for a couple of weeks said it changed in that period. Still sounds the same as when I opened it up over 3000 hours-played ago.


----------



## FatmanSize48

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Cool. Too bad it takes about another 150-250 hours at home before it's sound finalizes.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  I have a very difficult time believing that there is an audible difference between 100 and 200 hours of "burn in"


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> I've noticed no change in my BHA-1 but someone I loaned it to for a couple of weeks said it changed in that period. *Still sounds the same as when I opened it up over 3000 hours-played ago*.


 
   
  Same here when I had mine.  No change at all from time of first open to time of sale.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Also, I put in a order for the EC 2Ax4.  Lets see what happens..


 
   
  And so when's the next Cincy or Dayton meet when you get it?


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> I have a very difficult time believing that there is an audible difference between 100 and 200 hours of "burn in"


 
   
  I wasn't trying to make you believe anything. I heard it myself-wasn't really seeking validation.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## palmfish

True, but only if you don't have a sandlewood pyramid (sized according to the golden ratio) to place on top of it...


----------



## froger

darken23 said:


> I agree with you half way. I've not heard brightness from the 800s. But the HD800 cannot be crowned as the "neutrality king" with added treble energy along with any emphasis at top end imho. I assume this "brightness" is confused with detail, the level of detail the HD800 presents is amazing to me, but might come off as "bright" to others.


I am not sure if others are confused between details and brightness, i wouldnt put words in their mouth. in fact, many have claimed that LCD-3 is capable to extract as much details as HD800, not to mention Stax SR-007, and both LCD-3 and SR-007 are definitely darker than HD800. I think it all boils down to your preference and your matching of hd800 with your upstream gears. By the way, David's reviews on all headphones, while highly respectable and appreciated, is still based on his opinions and preference. I think it is still better to take it with a pinch of salt, rather than to quote it as a matter of fact.


----------



## DarKen23

froger said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with you half way. I've not heard brightness from the 800s. But the HD800 cannot be crowned as the "neutrality king" with added treble energy along with any emphasis at top end imho. I assume this "brightness" is confused with detail, the level of detail the HD800 presents is amazing to me, but might come off as "bright" to others.
> ...



Never heard of him. Thanks


----------



## Bolardito

I have just placed a Super 7 order for my HD800. I wonder if the tubes that come with the tube package would work fine with the HD800.. Also may start looking to replace my D18 DAC..would be looking for something in the 1-1,5 bracket. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> Dan,
> I purchased  cancelled the A18
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Nice, Ken. Can't wait for your thoughts on that one!
  Quote: 





bolardito said:


> I have just placed a Super 7 order for my HD800. I wonder if the tubes that come with the tube package would work fine with the HD800.. Also may start looking to replace my D18 DAC..would be looking for something in the 1-1,5 bracket. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


 
  Fabulous choice. I haven't read much about the stock tubes-but I know a few people who've found fantastic results with the S7/HD800 using really cheap tubes. I think most dacs in that price range aren't gonna be a whole lot different-and you can tailor the sound with tube rolling as you see fit. So-just get a dac that suits your preferences and offers the features you're looking for-or offers some nice eye candy.  There have been some great deals lately on both Anedio models used-and those seem to be the cream of the crop sound quality wise in that bracket.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Curse

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> Never heard of him. Thanks


 
  David from 58+ headphones reviewed.


----------



## DarKen23

curse said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Never heard of him. Thanks
> ...



duno who


----------



## Curse

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> duno who


 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13
   
  The guy who own all those.


----------



## CEE TEE

Quote: 





bolardito said:


> I have just placed a Super 7 order for my HD800. I wonder if the tubes that come with the tube package would work fine with the HD800.. Also may start looking to replace my D18 DAC..would be looking for something in the 1-1,5 bracket. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


 
  I recommend waiting to start buying tubes until you have the unit with the stock tubes and spend time with it...that way you'll be able to have a baseline and see what changes.  ALSO, you can describe what you are looking for in tubes and get some help figuring out which ones might get you to where you want to go.  I bought some NOS tubes while waiting for my amp that didn't end up playing well on the S7 for what I wanted (but luckily they sound GOOD in the Balancing Act).
   
  So that's another recommendation of mine, if any tubes don't sound good in the Super 7 because of tone or presentation (not talking about noise/distortion/problems) and you can afford to hold on to them...they might sound good in other amps.


----------



## Jd007

I think with the WA2 the HD800 is a tad bit too smooth and warm, and a bit of detail is lost. I do like the full bodied bass and the tamed treble though, but looking for a SS amp to compare. Right now I've narrowed down to: Burson Soloist, Bryston BHA-1, 2/3-channel B22. Which one do you guys think matches the best with the HD800?


----------



## DarKen23

jd007 said:


> I think with the WA2 the HD800 is a tad bit too smooth and warm, and a bit of detail is lost. I do like the full bodied bass and the tamed treble though, but looking for a SS amp to compare. Right now I've narrowed down to: Burson Soloist, Bryston BHA-1, 2/3-channel B22. Which one do you guys think matches the best with the HD800?


I've read great stories about the BHA1. Id rather go for the Yulong A18

EDIT: misread. Yea bha1. The a18 is considered smooth and warm as well but still has all the bells and whistles. Are you looking for a really neutral amp?


----------



## DarKen23

cee tee said:


> bolardito said:
> 
> 
> > I have just placed a Super 7 order for my HD800. I wonder if the tubes that come with the tube package would work fine with the HD800.. Also may start looking to replace my D18 DAC..would be looking for something in the 1-1,5 bracket. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> ...



I know nothing of tubes, and I have a question. Would you say tubes change with time in terms of sonics?


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> I know nothing of tubes, and I have a question. Would you say tubes change with time in terms of sonics?


 
  Yes, with time they may become noisy or microphonic.
   
  Some also needs a few hours to warm up after getting out of storage for the first fifty years.


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> I know nothing of tubes, and I have a question. Would you say tubes change with time in terms of sonics?


 
  They do eventually wear down and degrade SQ over time, but we're typically talking a few thousand hours, or extremely hot conditions.


----------



## DarKen23

Thank you kindly


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> I think with the WA2 the HD800 is a tad bit too smooth and warm, and a bit of detail is lost. I do like the full bodied bass and the tamed treble though, but looking for a SS amp to compare. Right now I've narrowed down to: Burson Soloist, Bryston BHA-1, 2/3-channel B22. Which one do you guys think matches the best with the HD800?


 
  What tubes were you using with the WA2?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> I think with the WA2 the HD800 is a tad bit too smooth and warm, and a bit of detail is lost. I do like the full bodied bass and the tamed treble though, but looking for a SS amp to compare. Right now I've narrowed down to: Burson Soloist, Bryston BHA-1, 2/3-channel B22. Which one do you guys think matches the best with the HD800?


 
   
  GEC 6AS7G and GZ34/596 would fix that


----------



## Jd007

macedonianhero said:


> What tubes were you using with the WA2?




I am using amperex bugle boys and sovtek power tubes. Anyway I think my search for a SS amp is done as I placed an order for the GS-x mk2. Let the wait begin...


----------



## Jd007

dubstep girl said:


> GEC 6AS7G and GZ34/596 would fix that




Thanks for the suggestion! How much would those cost me, roughly?


----------



## skeptic

Sadly, those tubes have gotten extremely pricey and are likely to cost more than certain alternative amps you might consider that would have more of the sound signature you're looking for.  For example, there are quite a few of us who very happily drive our hd800's with bh crack + speedball kits - which present a more detailed, dynamic and exciting sound signature with the hd800's than the Woo OTL options in any event.  I owned a WA3 for many years and speak from experience on this point.  
   
  I'm in the process of building bh's signature "mainline" amp right now.  Its a much more complicated build but should be marvelous when I get 'er done.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion! How much would those cost me, roughly?


 
   
  GEC 6AS7G is like 200-250+ per tube, u can sometimes find cheaper tubes and pairs (i paid $350 for 5 of them cause i got lucky). 
   
  they're very rare and quite hard to find them on sale but they do come up. 
   
  the 596 is like 100-150 for a new tube, but they are hard to come by as well. 
  GZ34 metal base is like 300$-800$, generally 350$-400$ would get u a new one, but some people overprice this tube as well..


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> GEC 6AS7G is like 200-250+ per tube, u can sometimes find cheaper tubes and pairs (i paid $350 for 5 of them cause i got lucky).
> 
> they're very rare and quite hard to find them on sale but they do come up.
> 
> ...


 
  damn that's kinda pricey, especially since i just ordered a new amp. thanks though, i'll try them later if i get a chance/more money.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





skeptic said:


> Sadly, those tubes have gotten extremely pricey and are likely to cost more than certain alternative amps you might consider that would have more of the sound signature you're looking for.  For example, there are quite a few of us who very happily drive our hd800's with bh crack + speedball kits - which present a more detailed, dynamic and exciting sound signature with the hd800's than the Woo OTL options in any event.  I owned a WA3 for many years and speak from experience on this point.
> 
> I'm in the process of building bh's signature "mainline" amp right now.  Its a much more complicated build but should be marvelous when I get 'er done.


 
   
  WA2 never lacks details or dynamics, of course, after i maxed out the tubes, if not, then you do lose a bit of transparency and micro- detail.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





skeptic said:


> Sadly, those tubes have gotten extremely pricey and are likely to cost more than certain alternative amps you might consider that would have more of the sound signature you're looking for.  For example, there are quite a few of us who very happily drive our hd800's with bh crack + speedball kits - which present a more detailed, dynamic and exciting sound signature with the hd800's than the Woo OTL options in any event.  I owned a WA3 for many years and speak from experience on this point.
> 
> I'm in the process of building bh's signature "mainline" amp right now.  Its a much more complicated build but should be marvelous when I get 'er done.


 

 I'm anxious to hear your impressions of the Mainline amp when you finish it. I personally thought it sounded very SS. Nothing stood out - it's simply transparent.
   
  I am very much enjoying my Crack with no Speedball, no modifications. Just a couple of CBS Hytron black plates...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> I am using amperex bugle boys and sovtek power tubes. Anyway I think my search for a SS amp is done as I placed an order for the GS-x mk2. Let the wait begin...


 
   
  Yeah, those Sovtek's are really holding back your amp! For the WA2 (or WA22) I would strongly recommend a pair of Sylvania (or better still Tung-Sol) 7236s. If you can snag a rare pair of Tung-Sol 5998s, then even better!
   
  The Sovteks really sound pretty poor in my experiences and the power tubes on the WA2 affect the sound the most. But seeing that you've ordered a GS-X MKII, you're all set.


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Yeah, those Sovtek's are really holding back your amp! For the WA2 (or WA22) I would strongly recommend a pair of Sylvania (or better still Tung-Sol) 7236s. If you can snag a rare pair of Tung-Sol 5998s, then even better!
> 
> The Sovteks really sound pretty poor in my experiences and the power tubes on the WA2 affect the sound the most. But seeing that you've ordered a GS-X MKII, you're all set.


 
  yeah i think i'll leave the tubes as they are now and wait for the gsx to see how that is vs the wa2. then maybe the wa2 will even be on its way out. thx for your help.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> yeah i think i'll leave the tubes as they are now and wait for the gsx to see how that is vs the wa2. then maybe the wa2 will even be on its way out. thx for your help.


 
  No worries. Just thought maybe you'd want to hear the WA22 at its best...and those power tubes I suggested should get you there or close to it.


----------



## Curse

I'm interested in the GX-MKII again for my HD-800.
   
  How much do they go for nowadays? Both the Dual Rail PSU and Dual Mono's (stack).


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





curse said:


> I'm interested in the GX-MKII again for my HD-800.
> 
> How much do they go for nowadays? Both the Dual Rail PSU and Dual Mono's (stack).


 
   
  The GS-X MKII isn't cheap:
   
  http://www.headamp.com/order/index.htm
   
  But IMO worth the price! I'm done with dynamic amps with it in house.


----------



## Jd007

nvm macedonianhero beat me to it


----------



## Curse

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> The GS-X MKII isn't cheap:
> 
> http://www.headamp.com/order/index.htm
> 
> But IMO worth the price! I'm done with dynamic amps with it in house.


 
  So 1/4 = 745 (with the DACT) times by four. Around 3000 plus shipping am i correct?
   
  I've had the LCD-3/LCD-2 with the Schiit Gungnir/Mjolnir but recently sold both Audeze headphones and moved onto the HD-800.
  HD-800 have not come yet so i am feeling a little eccentric on whether or not my stack would hold its on (being made with planar magnetic design in mind and all).
   
  Some say that the HD-800 sound better with the BHA-1 due to a little more "sparkle" it produces along with slightly better treble.
  I have a modified Gungnir/Mjolnir and it sounds spectacular (better than when i got it stock).
   

   
  My question is, am i missing that much by not going for the GX-MKII? How much better is it than the Bryston BHA-1/Schiit Stack?
  In your opinion of course, if you have heard one of the two.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





curse said:


> So 1/4 = 745 (with the DACT) times by four. Around 3000 plus shipping am i correct?
> 
> I've had the LCD-3/LCD-2 with the Schiit Gungnir/Mjolnir but recently sold both Audeze headphones and moved onto the HD-800.
> HD-800 have not come yet so i am feeling a little eccentric on whether or not my stack would hold its on (being made with planar magnetic design in mind and all).
> ...


 
   
  For bang for your buck, the Mjolnir is hard to beat. For under $1400, I like the Burson Solosit or BHA-1. But the best I've heard my LCD-3/HD800/TH-900 sound is from the GS-X MKII.


----------



## Curse

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> For bang for your buck, the Mjolnir is hard to beat. For under $1400, I like the Burson Solosit or BHA-1. But the best I've heard my LCD-3/HD800/TH-900 sound is from the GS-X MKII.


 
  Thank you so very much.
   
  I will make that my goal for the future in terms of pairing it with the LCD-3 and HD-800. (GS-X MKII).


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





curse said:


> Thank you so very much.
> 
> I will make that my goal for the future in terms of pairing it with the LCD-3 and HD-800. (GS-X MKII).


 
   
  No worries.


----------



## Jd007

hmm MacedonianHero, how would you say the gs-x mk2 compares with the wa2, with the good power tubes you were talking about? i like the warmth and full bass of the wa2 on my hd800, hopefully the gsx isnt too dry.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> hmm MacedonianHero, how would you say the gs-x mk2 compares with the wa2, with the good power tubes you were talking about? i like the warmth and full bass of the wa2 on my hd800, hopefully the gsx isnt too dry.


 
  good question but i think i might know his answer.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> hmm MacedonianHero, how would you say the gs-x mk2 compares with the wa2, with the good power tubes you were talking about? i like the warmth and full bass of the wa2 on my hd800, hopefully the gsx isnt too dry.


 
  Oh goodness no. The GS-X MKII is a much better amp. Just that the WA2 would sound at its best (or close to) with those tubes.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> yeah i think i'll leave the tubes as they are now and wait for the gsx to see how that is vs the wa2. then maybe the wa2 will even be on its way out. thx for your help.


 
   
  if you wanted to hear the HD 800 at their best with the WA2, the GEC 6AS7G or TS 5998 would really take the WA2 to the next level, but i'm sure as MH said, the GSX2 is better.
   
  i know i am interested in the GSX2 as well, i would probably get one myself if the wait wasn't so long and if i wasn't so worried it would be too bland sounding, i love tubes


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> and if i wasn't so worried it would be too bland sounding, i love tubes


 
  That is actually my worry right now as well, but I guess I'll find out later this year. at least resale value of high end audio gear is not bad


----------



## Stalker81598

That is what I did not like about the GS-X Mk2. Detail, clarity and transparency were impressive, yes, but I found it a little dry and unengaging. I much prefer an amp that imparts some warmth and character into the music, even if it isn't as true to the source material. Not saying the GS-X is bad by any means; you may find that you really like it. It's just not for me.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i like my WA2/T1 more than any other combo, because its so musical and engaging, the speed neutrality and transparency of the T1 with the warmth and beautiful tone of the WA2, same reason why i like HD 800 and WA2 alot as well.
   
  hmm, maybe i should be going for the Allnic HPA5000, just wish i could hear how it sounds with my other headphones... i know its a beast with the HE-500, and it might be able to drive the HE-6 too


----------



## Girls Generation

Did not like HD800 with Gung/mjo.
  Did like HD800 better with Soloist.
  Did not like Soloist with Audezes. 
  Did like Mjolnir with Audezes.
  Quote: 





curse said:


> So 1/4 = 745 (with the DACT) times by four. Around 3000 plus shipping am i correct?
> 
> I've had the LCD-3/LCD-2 with the Schiit Gungnir/Mjolnir but recently sold both Audeze headphones and moved onto the HD-800.
> HD-800 have not come yet so i am feeling a little eccentric on whether or not my stack would hold its on (being made with planar magnetic design in mind and all).
> ...


----------



## Pudu

dubstep girl said:


> i like my WA2/T1 more than any other combo, because its so musical and engaging, the speed neutrality and transparency of the T1 with the warmth and beautiful tone of the WA2, same reason why i like HD 800 and WA2 alot as well.
> 
> hmm, maybe i should be going for the Allnic HPA5000, just wish i could hear how it sounds with my other headphones... i know its a beast with the HE-500, and it might be able to drive the HE-6 too




Agreed. Like Zana-800 much, still prefer WA2-T1 though.

(caveat - haven't rolled the ZD yet and the WA2-T1 is a much more familiar sound)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

gonna get to compare ZD with WA2 for HD 800 this coming week. the WA2 has amazing synergy with HD 800 as well, with the GEC 6AS7G tubes, the transparency and detail really comes out, yet the silky smoothness remains. interestingly, i don't like the GEC tubes with the T1, seems to lack bass and a little brighter. 
   
  i think cause the T1 have that crazy 1400 ohm impedance in the 80-100hz region, u really need the extra power from the 5998 tubes.


----------



## Pudu

For the HD I think I like the ZD. Look forward to your take.


----------



## joyway

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> gonna get to compare ZD with WA2 for HD 800 this coming week. the WA2 has amazing synergy with HD 800 as well, with the GEC 6AS7G tubes, the transparency and detail really comes out, yet the silky smoothness remains. interestingly, i don't like the GEC tubes with the T1, seems to lack bass and a little brighter.
> 
> i think cause the T1 have that crazy 1400 ohm impedance in the 80-100hz region, u really need the extra power from the 5998 tubes.


 
  I'm looking forward to your impression of ZD-800 combol. Actually  I was also wondering if super 7 drive hd800 better than ZDSE.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





pudu said:


> For the HD I think I like the ZD. Look forward to your take.


 
   
  im considering buying it, of course, it will have to be significantly better than WA2/HD800 with GEC tubes, that means better overall synergy and tonality + transparency/detail.
   
  i know i didn't like balancing act that much with HD 800 ( i think the guy had stock 6sn7 though, which might affect sound). sounded much cleaner and detailed, but a little too analytical/bright for me. law of diminishing returns really hit hard at that point.


----------



## Pudu

The Senns have amazing transparency with the ZD. It's probably the biggest wow moment you'll have with the combo. And it's definitely not sterile/clinical.

BUT, there isn't the same magical musical synergy thing going on as with the woo-beyer pair, or at least a very different kind of synergy. That said, depending on the music or the mood I definitely prefer one over the other. If I had to choose one amp for HD800 it'd be the ZD - for the T1 it would be the Woo. One for both cans .... don't make me to it. If you can swing it they really complement one another very well.


----------



## magiccabbage

This thread is getting interesting again, gonna be some nice impressions in the coming days. I will be hearing the HD800 for the first time tomorrow, i thought it would be today but the store does not open on mondays. I will be bringing my WA2 with me and hopefully i will also get to hear some high-end DACs as well.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





pudu said:


> The Senns have amazing transparency with the ZD. It's probably the biggest wow moment you'll have with the combo. And it's definitely not sterile/clinical.
> 
> BUT, there isn't the same magical musical synergy thing going on as with the woo-beyer pair, or at least a very different kind of synergy. That said, depending on the music or the mood I definitely prefer one over the other. If I had to choose one amp for HD800 it'd be the ZD - for the T1 it would be the Woo. One for both cans .... don't make me to it. If you can swing it they really complement one another very well.


 
   
  have u ever heard Wa22, ppl say its good for both, but i feel that it won't be the same.


----------



## Pudu

Sadly I have not. In fact I haven't heard any other Woos.

 I'll give the WA2-800 a workout this week to see if I'm completely befuddled in my take on it.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Sadly I have not. In fact I haven't heard any other Woos.
> 
> I'll give the WA2-800 a workout this week to see if I'm completely befuddled in my take on it.


 
  you dont like it?


----------



## Pudu

magiccabbage said:


> you dont like it?




Whosdoingwhatnow?


You mean the 800 with the WA2? They are both terrific pieces of kit.

Just saying I like the Zana better for the HD800.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Whosdoingwhatnow?


 
  I thought you meant that you didn't like the combo


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Whosdoingwhatnow?
> 
> 
> You mean the 800 with the WA2? They are both terrific pieces of kit.
> ...


 
  excited to get to try HD 800 + zana, which is supposed to be one of the best tube amps for it.
   
  i only like HD 800 with WA2 and GEC tubes, before, it was only "ok", i felt that the TS 5998 was still holding the HD 800 back, like a very slight veil cause of the colorations, i kept going back and forth between WA6-SE and WA2, but now the WA2 is much much better.
   
  and this is with the bugle boys, i can only imagine the sound would improve if i buy Siemen CCa or Amperex PQ Whites or something.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The beauty of this hobby are the variables to explore!


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> excited to get to try HD 800 + zana, which is supposed to be one of the best tube amps for it.
> 
> i only like HD 800 with WA2 and GEC tubes, before, it was only "ok", i felt that the TS 5998 was still holding the HD 800 back, like a very slight veil cause of the colorations, i kept going back and forth between WA6-SE and WA2, but now the WA2 is much much better.
> 
> and this is with the bugle boys, i can only imagine the sound would improve if i buy Siemen CCa or Amperex PQ Whites or something.


 
  Imagine what the WA5 would sound like with hd800. 300b's hmm,mm


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Imagine what the WA5 would sound like with hd800. 300b's hmm,mm


 
   
  or the stratus.....or the liquid glass


----------



## Pudu

longbowbbs said:


> The beauty of this hobby are the variables to explore!



 You said it.




magiccabbage said:


> I thought you meant that you didn't like the combo



I just don't like it as much. 




dubstep girl said:


> excited to get to try HD 800 + zana, which is supposed to be one of the best tube amps for it.
> 
> i only like HD 800 with WA2 and GEC tubes, before, it was only "ok", i felt that the TS 5998 was still holding the HD 800 back, like a very slight veil cause of the colorations, i kept going back and forth between WA6-SE and WA2, but now the WA2 is much much better.
> 
> and this is with the bugle boys, i can only imagine the sound would improve if i buy Siemen CCa or Amperex PQ Whites or something.




See I'm still using 5998s because they are so juicy delicious with the T1. So anything that goes into the Woo has to live with it the way it is. Could be that the Senn's will benefit significantly from different tubes.

Again it comes down to all the variables adding up to goodness. I hate analytical classical - so for symphonic stuff it's the Woo. But stuff like Skylar Grey, for instance, sounds a bit rolled off. Much better with the ZD.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





pudu said:


> You said it.
> I just don't like it as much.
> See I'm still using 5998s because they are so juicy delicious with the T1. So anything that goes into the Woo has to live with it the way it is. Could be that the Senn's will benefit significantly from different tubes.
> 
> Again it comes down to all the variables adding up to goodness. I hate analytical classical - so for symphonic stuff it's the Woo. But stuff like Skylar Grey, for instance, sounds a bit rolled off. Much better with the ZD.


 
   
  they do! its all about synergy, i can't stand the T1 with the GECs, they lose their bass and seem to get brighter.
   
  the GEC/HD800 is beautiful with classical, violins are especially nice, the GEC's have such a beautiful rich tone to them, i really like them. skylar grey sounds good with this as well (especially her _Like Blood Like Honey_ album as Holly Brook).
   
  but yeah, the GECs really take the WA2/HD800 to the next level i think. can't wait till the Zana, i'm hoping it will be even more detailed and transparent while still being smooth, forgiving, and having that same euphonic warmth.


----------



## Pudu

Bring on the comparisons!

(And I'll try to get off my keister and find a Mullard ECC35 or something else for the ZD to see what I'm missing.)

The ZD really does somehow pull off detailed, transparent and musical at the same time - wouldn't call it euphonic warmth though. But it's definitely got some kind of voodoo magic happening in there.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> or the stratus.....or the liquid glass


 
  The stratus yea but I just don't like the look of the Cavalli gear. Looks like a square box. I bet it sounds good though.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Bring on the comparisons!
> 
> (And I'll try to get off my keister and find a Mullard ECC35 or something else for the ZD to see what I'm missing.)
> 
> The ZD really does somehow pull off detailed, transparent and musical at the same time - wouldn't call it euphonic warmth though. But it's definitely got some kind of voodoo magic happening in there.


 
   
  could get that euphonic warmth in there though with some tube rolling, though i don't know what is available for the ZD, im sure its not as much as WA2's options.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> The stratus yea but I just don't like the look of the Cavalli gear. Looks like a square box. I bet it sounds good though.


 
   
  i only like the look of the liquid fire, i probably would buy it only for the looks cause it looks cool.


----------



## froger

Based on all I have read regarding amplifier for HD800 over the last few months, I have narrowed down to either GS-X or Stratus as the 2 amps seem to have gathered the highest praise around for their pairing with HD800. In the end, I decided on the Stratus as I thought it will probably suit my taste better, as I am looking for a smoother and a more natural sound than a highly transparent and detailed one, though I really like the looks of GS-X. Anyway, the waiting time if Donald really lives up to his promise, is not that long. Not too sure about GS-X though, I think Justin is having his hands full with BHSE right now, so patience is key.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





froger said:


> Based on all I have read regarding amplifier for HD800 over the last few months, I have narrowed down to either GS-X or Stratus as the 2 amps seem to have gathered the highest praise around for their pairing with HD800. In the end, I decided on the Stratus as I thought it will probably suit my taste better, as I am looking for a smoother and a more natural sound than a highly transparent and detailed one, though I really like the looks of GS-X. Anyway, the waiting time if Donald really lives up to his promise, is not that long. Not too sure about GS-X though, I think Justin is having his hands full with BHSE right now, so patience is key.


 
  I would love a stratus, it is near the top of my list.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> That is what I did not like about the GS-X Mk2. Detail, clarity and transparency were impressive, yes, but I found it a little dry and unengaging. I much prefer an amp that imparts some warmth and character into the music, even if it isn't as true to the source material. Not saying the GS-X is bad by any means; you may find that you really like it. It's just not for me.


 
  I've mentioned this before (and asked before here on this thread and via PM) you're source was an iPod, so with a truly revealing amp like the GS-X, I'm not surprised. If you want warmth, then pick a source that has some, not a dry and un-engaging iDevice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



  Well designed high end gear like the GS-X and HD-800s SHOULD do that. As well, please let us know the store in your area that has a GS-X MKII on hand for trial here in North America when Justin only sells them directly (and has only had 1 run of the amp ship out)? In Australia, he has a seller there that we're all aware of, but none here that I know of? Seems kinda silly to have a $3000 amp on hand for display that you can't sell.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i only like the look of the liquid fire, i probably would buy it only for the looks cause it looks cool.


 
  May like the look, but the sound is overpriced at $3250 IMO when I owned it.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  A couple of used ones were up for around $2k recently.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





longbowbbs said:


> A couple of used ones were up for around $2k recently.


 
  Still seems a bit high when the sonics are considered IMO. Funny, I'm finding the Liquid Lightning the same way.


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Another great reason to use Decware!  A great value priced high quality line.  (I need to make commissions on these things...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## Stalker81598

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I've mentioned this before (and asked before here on this thread and via PM) you're source was an iPod, so with a truly revealing amp like the GS-X, I'm not surprised. If you want warmth, then pick a source that has some, not a dry and un-engaging iDevice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  My Lyr sounds fine with the source I have and even right from an iPod because it colors the sound in its own way. I'm not willing to spend 4000+ on a new amp and source when I already have what I want from my current rig. I'm enjoying it just as much as anyone else here, if not more since I love it enough to keep it just the way it is.
   
  I really don't want to get into this argument with you again. I'm very glad that you enjoy your rig and I'm sorry that I don't like your favorite amp.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> My Lyr sounds fine with the source I have and even right from an iPod because it colors the sound in its own way. I'm not willing to spend 4000+ on a new amp and source when I already have what I want from my current rig. I'm enjoying it just as much as anyone else here, if not more since I love it enough to keep it just the way it is.
> 
> I really don't want to get into this argument with you again. I'm very glad that you enjoy your rig and I'm sorry that I don't like your favorite amp.


 
   
  Third time you've dodged my question of that audio store. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  BTW, just noticed only 30 GS-X MKII's in the wild....so I'm very curious to hear about the one you heard it at that didn't have a source and you had to use your iPod? As well, the GS-X is a BALANCED headphone amp, so an unbalanced source like your iPod would only enable you to hear 50% of the amp (at best).
   


justin w. said:


> i would have to look up the exact number of Gilmore Reference amps, but i'd say around 5 or 6. The original GS-X around 60 over 6 years. *The GS-X mk2, 30 shipped so far *and 60 more being built now. So, in the wild, a max of about 95


 
   
  Yes, the Lyr will play nice with a much weaker source because it isn't transparent of upstream gear in anywhere the same way. So if you're not looking at spending a lot more $ on a new dac/source, then I'd stick with the Lyr. With the GS-X, it's garbage in = garbage out.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

how do you think a mytek 192 would play with the GSX-2?
   
  since its supposed to be very neutral though some find it slightly warm after burn in, some find it slightly edgy.


----------



## kazsud

Quote: 





pudu said:


> For the HD I think I like the ZD. Look forward to your take.


 
  +1


----------



## kazsud

Has anyone here run the HD800 off of speaker taps? or off a HiFiman HE-Adapter?


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> May like the look, but the sound is overpriced at $3250 IMO when I owned it.


 
  will you ever go back to tubes or are you all solid state these days? maybe 300b?


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> Has anyone here run the HD800 off of speaker taps? or off a HiFiman HE-Adapter?


 
  ask frank1 - WA5 speaker out is what he uses i think.


----------



## joyway

Has anyone compared the super 7 with ZDSE when driving hd800?
  Any advice will be appreciated


----------



## Girls Generation

Yeah so I test drove a Ferrari and it wouldn't screwing drive. It's a piece of crap garbage car, because it won't even go!!@# NEVER get a Ferrari, UGH!
  obtw it didn't have wheels cuz it was getting work done at the shop.
   
  Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> My Lyr sounds fine with the source I have and even right from an iPod because it colors the sound in its own way. I'm not willing to spend 4000+ on a new amp and source when I already have what I want from my current rig. I'm enjoying it just as much as anyone else here, if not more since I love it enough to keep it just the way it is.
> 
> I really don't want to get into this argument with you again. I'm very glad that you enjoy your rig and I'm sorry that I don't like your favorite amp.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Yeah so I test drove a Ferrari and it wouldn't screwing drive. It's a piece of crap garbage car, because it won't even go!!@# NEVER get a Ferrari, UGH!
> obtw it didn't have wheels cuz it was getting work done at the shop.


 
  ha ha ha


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> Has anyone here run the HD800 off of speaker taps? or off a HiFiman HE-Adapter?


 
   
  The HD800 is too efficient for speaker taps.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> The HD800 is too efficient for speaker taps.


 
  hmmm never heard this before. It does not work like this? best to just use normal jack?


----------



## palmfish

It would work, but with most amps (I mean intended for speakers), you would have virtually no volume control.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> It would work, but with most amps (I mean intended for speakers), you would have virtually no volume control.


 
  would the WA5 be an exception with the k1000 out? Or is that a different thing all together?


----------



## palmfish

The WA5 has a headphone jack, doesn't it?
   
  EDIT: Oh, I see what you're asking now. I have no personal experience with the WA5 or the K1000 but I see the K1000 is extremely inefficient and the WA5 has a switch to select between speakers, K1000, and high/low impedance headphones.
   
  My answer - I don't know. What I do know is that the HD800 is a very efficient headphone and has very different amplifier requirements than the K1000. Nothing wrong with trying though. Just turn the volume all the way down, plug in the HD800's and carefully see for yourself.
   
  Personally though, I think it's a complete waste of effort. Kind of like putting 100 octane racing fuel in your BMW 328. Yes it will run fine (you might even "believe" it runs better), but it's a complete waste of money with no performance gains to be had.


----------



## kazsud

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> The HD800 is too efficient for speaker taps.


 
  The first time I heard it was speaker tapped to a First Watt. I'm trying to see if it's worth doing it off something like a vintage amp.


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> Has anyone here run the HD800 off of speaker taps? or off a HiFiman HE-Adapter?


 
  I do with my McIntosh MC225. It's a match made in heaven. However, the HE-adaptor is a bottleneck, so I had a custom adaptor made for "proper" impedance matching.
   
  Luckily the NAD M51 has a digital pre-amp, it's wonderful.


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Yes, the Lyr will play nice with a much weaker source because it isn't transparent of upstream gear in anywhere the same way. So if you're not looking at spending a lot more $ on a new dac/source, then I'd stick with the Lyr. With the GS-X, it's garbage in = garbage out.


 
  Not commenting on the Lyr + GS-X setup but just wanted to say that even in the same excellent source with the same amp, people would perceive sound differently. One undeniable fact is as we get older, our perception of the higher frequencies diminish. A setup that has a relatively harsh treble might bother the younger listening but not the older one simply because the older person cannot hear as high as the younger person for the harshness to bother him/her.
   
  I did a frequency perception test with my dad (who's not that old, just in his 50s) a couple years ago, and while I could hear up to the 18kHz-19kHz range, his perception cuts off at around 10kHz-12kHz range. This is pure biology and there is nothing we can do about it (apart from cyborg ear implants I guess). So theoretically an audio setup could have a massive 10dB spike at the 15kHz area and he would be perfectly fine with it but I would flip the **** out.
   
  With the HD800 here's one of my conjectures. Personal preference aside, perhaps in general younger people tend to prefer tube or warmer sounds, because the analytical sounds of certain amps can bother their ears with the high frequencies. It's like as we age, our ears' treble rolls off lol. Not sure though. I guess I'll test this out myself since I'm pretty young and just ordered a super neutral and transparent amp.
   
  Now I know that audio recordings don't often go up to 10kHz+ frequency range, but still, the difference is there, and this difference has nothing to do with our personal preference of sound.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> Not commenting on the Lyr + GS-X setup but just wanted to say that even in the same excellent source with the same amp, people would perceive sound differently. One undeniable fact is as we get older, our perception of the higher frequencies diminish. A setup that has a relatively harsh treble might bother the younger listening but not the older one simply because the older person cannot hear as high as the younger person for the harshness to bother him/her.
> 
> I did a frequency perception test with my dad (who's not that old, just in his 50s) a couple years ago, and while I could hear up to the 18kHz-19kHz range, his perception cuts off at around 10kHz-12kHz range. This is pure biology and there is nothing we can do about it (apart from cyborg ear implants I guess). So theoretically an audio setup could have a massive 10dB spike at the 15kHz area and he would be perfectly fine with it but I would flip the **** out.
> 
> ...


 
  That makes a lot of sense. I'm one of those that doesn't hear the 6k peak... And I'm only 42 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm also a big fan of the original K701's.... Ouch! 
   
  Bad treble still bothers me though, and I do need to equalize the AKG's a little. But I find the HD800's top end - just right.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> Not commenting on the Lyr + GS-X setup but just wanted to say that even in the same excellent source with the same amp, people would perceive sound differently. One undeniable fact is as we get older, our perception of the higher frequencies diminish. A setup that has a relatively harsh treble might bother the younger listening but not the older one simply because the older person cannot hear as high as the younger person for the harshness to bother him/her.
> 
> I did a frequency perception test with my dad (who's not that old, just in his 50s) a couple years ago, and while I could hear up to the 18kHz-19kHz range, his perception cuts off at around 10kHz-12kHz range. This is pure biology and there is nothing we can do about it (apart from cyborg ear implants I guess). So theoretically an audio setup could have a massive 10dB spike at the 15kHz area and he would be perfectly fine with it but I would flip the **** out.
> 
> ...


 
   
  It isn't that simple.
   
  I personally can't hear above 12 kHz, but the nature of my hearing loss makes me sensitive to certain frequencies below that. Lower treble sounds which might be innocuous to you can actually cause me great discomfort and/or pain.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> The first time I heard it was speaker tapped to a First Watt. I'm trying to see if it's worth doing it off something like a vintage amp.


 
   
  Ive never seen a First Watt, but I'm assuming it required a pre-amp too.
   
  And as dleblanc343 mentioned, having a pre-amp (or DAC) with adjustable output in front of your amp (or vintage receiver) could allow you to get sufficient volume travel on your amp. I do this with my BH Crack...
   
  But I'll say it again. In my opinion, powering the HD800 with a speaker amp is like running racing fuel in street car. It's pointless.


----------



## Jd007

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> It isn't that simple.
> 
> I personally can't hear above 12 kHz, but the nature of my hearing loss makes me sensitive to certain frequencies below that. Lower treble sounds which might be innocuous to you can actually cause me great discomfort and/or pain.


 
  yeah that was my point. same exact gear could sound different to different people, preference aside. when you say "this thing has harsh treble", it could mean a peak at 6khz (which would bother almost everybody as you'd have to be 90+ years old to not hear 6khz). when another persons says the same thing it could mean a peak at 13khz but you won't think that the setup has a harsh treble because you can't hear it. that said i do believe that when most ppl talk about treble, they are speaking of the 6khz-10khz range, as music rarely go above that.


----------



## dleblanc343

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Ive never seen a First Watt, but I'm assuming it required a pre-amp too.
> 
> And as dleblanc343 mentioned, having a pre-amp (or DAC) with adjustable output in front of your amp (or vintage receiver) could allow you to get sufficient volume travel on your amp. I do this with my BH Crack...
> 
> But I'll say it again. In my opinion, powering the HD800 with a speaker amp is like running racing fuel in street car. It's pointless.


 
  Hold on now, it's definitely not pointless! I've achieved very nice sound with this set up, which I'd classify as a step up over almost everything under 3000$ in the headphone amps world (not sure about the Stratus as I haven't compared side-to-side, but my amp also drives the HE6 better so...). I've yet to hear the GSX MKII though.


----------



## Stalker81598

girls generation said:


> Yeah so I test drove a Ferrari and it wouldn't screwing drive. It's a piece of crap garbage car, because it won't even go!!@# NEVER get a Ferrari, UGH!
> obtw it didn't have wheels cuz it was getting work done at the shop.




What a fantastic display of absolute bigotry.

I can see I've gotten all I can from this thread. Unsubbed.


----------



## magiccabbage

Its getting hot in here.


----------



## Girls Generation

Yes, why yes it was. A perfect solution to your nonsense. Hopefully now you're fully aware how you sound like.
  Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> What a fantastic display of absolute bigotry.
> 
> I can see I've gotten all I can from this thread. Unsubbed.


----------



## audiosceptic

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> I do with my McIntosh MC225. It's a match made in heaven. *However, the HE-adaptor is a bottleneck*, so I had a custom adaptor made for "proper" impedance matching.
> 
> Luckily the NAD M51 has a digital pre-amp, it's wonderful.


 
   
  How is the HE adaptor a bottleneck?


----------



## kazsud

I heard the stratus & liquid gold? which ever is the newer one at the same meet. The stratus sounded very good but had tubes in it that made it bright as hell. I asked Donald to put the stock tubes in and it sounded much better to me but not as smooth as the liquid gold. But I can only assume if it had Sophia Princess tubes which everyone w/ a hd800 seems to say are a match w/ them.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





dleblanc343 said:


> Hold on now, it's definitely not pointless! I've achieved very nice sound with this set up, which I'd classify as a step up over almost everything under 3000$ in the headphone amps world (not sure about the Stratus as I haven't compared side-to-side, but my amp also drives the HE6 better so...). I've yet to hear the GSX MKII though.


 
   
  Well, I wasn't really thinking about your lovely MC225 when I made that comment.
   
  When people ask about speaker taps, 99% of the time, it is the context of a 70's vintage Pioneer or Sansui integrated amp they picked up on eBay or a Chinese box made of plastic that their DVD player is plugged into.
   
  Your McIntosh is a rare bird indeed. And a bird with tubes, which also changes the equation, in my opinion. You have found your own personal heaven, but the way tube outputs and geriatric caps affect frequency response is unpredictable, and ultimately a matter of experimentation, trial and error, and personal taste.
   
  But yes, I admit you are right and I should not have used the word "pointless."


----------



## Jd007

Hmm a WA5-LE popped up for sale about an hour ago, but posted in the headphone amp section instead of the FS section. For those interested: http://www.head-fi.org/t/679846/woo-audio-wa5-le


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





jd007 said:


> Hmm a WA5-LE popped up for sale about an hour ago, but posted in the headphone amp section instead of the FS section. For those interested: http://www.head-fi.org/t/679846/woo-audio-wa5-le


 
  I need to get a job!


----------



## longbowbbs

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It tends to help...


----------



## BournePerfect

I was first to message the WA5-LE guy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...I think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Offered payment...just waiting to hear back now. Does anyone with experience know which tube sets he has listed that should work best with the HD800?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## longbowbbs

I would go with the Takatsuki TA-300B's and the EML 5U4 mesh.....


----------



## dleblanc343

palmfish said:


> Well, I wasn't really thinking about your lovely MC225 when I made that comment.
> 
> When people ask about speaker taps, 99% of the time, it is the context of a 70's vintage Pioneer or Sansui integrated amp they picked up on eBay or a Chinese box made of plastic that their DVD player is plugged into.
> 
> ...



No hard feelings my friend! It is trial and error for sure though, I did have to experiment a bit, but on first listen i knew it was special.

The problem with the HE adaptor is that it's 8-10 ohms and made for the Hifiman orthos whereas the HD800 is 300 ohm and a dynamic.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> how do you think a mytek 192 would play with the GSX-2?
> 
> since its supposed to be very neutral though some find it slightly warm after burn in, some find it slightly edgy.


 
  Hard to say, sorry as I haven't heard that DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> will you ever go back to tubes or are you all solid state these days? maybe 300b?


 
  No plans whatsoever. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Yeah so I test drove a Ferrari and it wouldn't screwing drive. It's a piece of crap garbage car, because it won't even go!!@# NEVER get a Ferrari, UGH!
> obtw it didn't have wheels cuz it was getting work done at the shop.


 
  And let's not forget that the Ferrari really needs a balanced source in order to hear the full amp. But great analogy.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I was first to message the WA5-LE guy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  you know why the link is dead? maybe this should be a pm?


----------



## froger

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> I heard the stratus & liquid gold? which ever is the newer one at the same meet. The stratus sounded very good but had tubes in it that made it bright as hell. I asked Donald to put the stock tubes in and it sounded much better to me but not as smooth as the liquid gold. But I can only assume if it had Sophia Princess tubes which everyone w/ a hd800 seems to say are a match w/ them.


 
  Hi, may I know which meet did you hear them from? I wonder if the Stratus was fitted with EML 2A3 tube which could make the Stratus a bit too aggressive and upfront with HD800.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> you know why the link is dead? maybe this should be a pm?


 
  Cause it was in the wrong forum.  If that's what you are asking?


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





magiccabbage said:


> you know why the link is dead? maybe this should be a pm?


 
   
  Well I PM'd him to ask him to get it moved to the FS forums. Then I 'flagged' his post-asking a mod to move it there. So maybe it's all my fault it got deleted lol. Either way-he still hasn't responded to any of my PMs yet.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





stalker81598 said:


> I can see I've gotten all I can from this thread. *Unsubbed.*


----------



## palmfish

dleblanc343 said:


> No hard feelings my friend! It is trial and error for sure though, I did have to experiment a bit, but on first listen i knew it was special.
> 
> The problem with the HE adaptor is that it's 8-10 ohms and made for the Hifiman orthos whereas the HD800 is 300 ohm and a dynamic.




I didn't know the resitance inside the HiFiMan box. That would definitely change the response of the HD800.


----------



## kazsud

froger said:


> Hi, may I know which meet did you hear them from? I wonder if the Stratus was fitted with EML 2A3 tube which could make the Stratus a bit too aggressive and upfront with HD800.




Staten Island in April


----------



## Senn-Fi

kazsud said:


> Has anyone here run the HD800 off of speaker taps? or off a HiFiman HE-Adapter?




Yes, I have done just that using an HE adaptor off of my hypex NCore amps using a BAT VK-52SE pre-amp. It sounded very, very good. I never had the sack to hook it straight to the speaker taps on a 400 watt amp though.


----------



## Girls Generation

It's not going to pump 400 watts into the headphones though. Just need to be careful with volume control lol.
  Quote: 





senn-fi said:


> Yes, I have done just that using an HE adaptor off of my hypex NCore amps using a BAT VK-52SE pre-amp. It sounded very, very good. I never had the sack to hook it straight to the speaker taps on a 400 watt amp though.


----------



## Senn-Fi

I know, it would only go to 10/160 volume steps on the He-6, so I didn't even try the hd800


----------



## MickeyVee

On another note and back down to earth.. got a chance to try out the CSP 2+ today with the HD800.  Initially, meh.. a little fuller sounding over the Lyr until we put my Amperex Orange Globes in and then Wow! We had it running through my Uber Bifrost and with the OG's, it was really nice.  Fuller/richer sounding with great detail, less grain but still a little sharp on top.  We had it all wired up with Carads Clear Light cables (my buddy is a Cardas nut) but when we went back to my Audioquest cables, it smoothed out the top end with little sacrifice to detail and soundstage.  Whatever, I'll never spend that much on cables.
   
  Anyway, he was impressed with the Lyr, or should I say, my tube collection so I sold the lot. He'll probably sell the Lyr and keep the best tubes.  Easy sale for me. I have the Woo WA7 (with upgraded tubes)  coming in (it's in transit right now) and if it's anything like the CSP 2+, an incremental but nice upgrade in sound, I'll be a very happy camper. Until then, I'm running the HD800 off my DragonFly.
  Waiting on the WA7...


----------



## longbowbbs

The right tubes make the CSP2+ sing with the HD800's!


----------



## DarKen23

mickeyvee said:


> On another note and back down to earth.. got a chance to try out the CSP 2+ today with the HD800.  Initially, meh.. a little fuller sounding over the Lyr until we put my Amperex Orange Globes in and then Wow! We had it running through my Uber Bifrost and with the OG's, it was really nice.  Fuller/richer sounding with great detail, less grain but still a little sharp on top.  We had it all wired up with Carads Clear Light cables (my buddy is a Cardas nut) but when we went back to my Audioquest cables, it smoothed out the top end with little sacrifice to detail and soundstage.  Whatever, I'll never spend that much on cables.
> 
> Anyway, he was impressed with the Lyr, or should I say, my tube collection so I sold the lot. He'll probably sell the Lyr and keep the best tubes.  Easy sale for me. I have the Woo WA7 (with upgraded tubes)  coming in (it's in transit right now) and if it's anything like the CSP 2+, an incremental but nice upgrade in sound, I'll be a very happy camper. Until then, I'm running the HD800 off my DragonFly.
> Waiting on the WA7...



How are the HD800 with dragfly


----------



## Contrails

Hello everyone,
   
  I am a current He500 owner suffering from upgraditis and hoping the HD800 will be the cure.  I also own a LF339 OTL amp but I have heard it does not pair well with the HD800.  My issue is soundstage and imaging. I listen to a lot of jazz and a little classic and some classic rock. I really want that out of your head sound.
   
  Now I am thinking of selling the LF339 and buying an amp that pairs well with both.  I prefer a tube amp like a WA2 but I have heard the bottlehead crack with speedball upgrade is another good option.  Then there's the V200 which is fantastic as well, but I love the look of a tube amp and I already have 5998s, 6AS7G and Bendix 6080 in possession so a tube amp that uses these tubes and works wonders with the HD800 would be the way to go for me. 
   
  The other bonus of a WA2 is it pairs well with the He500.  So while I save up for the HD800, I can still enjoy the He500s on it.  Is there any other options that pair well with HD800 & He500 and use 6AS7 tubes?
   
  I have a M-DAC as my standalone DAC.
   
  Thanks


----------



## palmfish

BH Crack. Get it without the Speedball.


----------



## froger

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> Staten Island in April


 
  Thanks Kazsud. I think the Stratus you listened to was really fitted with the EML tubes, in which quite a few Stratus owners had commented the combi being too in your face and aggressive for HD800, but perfect for LCD-3.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





contrails said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am a current He500 owner suffering from upgraditis and hoping the HD800 will be the cure.  I also own a LF339 OTL amp but I have heard it does not pair well with the HD800.  My issue is soundstage and imaging. I listen to a lot of jazz and a little classic and some classic rock. I really want that out of your head sound.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  my WA2 would never drive an HE-500, though some people seem to have been able to drive LCD-2/LCD-3/HE-500/HE-5LE off the WA2, now i think thats impossible, its never worked for me. if it did, i probably wouldn't own any other amp or be looking for an upgrade anytime soon, because i love the sound of the WA2. for me, it clips with low impedance and planars, doesn't get loud enough before distorting with even high sensitivity headphones like TH-900, though it does drive them slightly better.
   
  the WA2 however, is absolutely amazing with HD 800s, especially when you have fully upgraded tubes like the GEC 6AS7G. its warm, sweet, transparent, clear, detailed, with great full sounding deep bass and rich mids. its very very good i think. warm and silky smooth but without sacrificing much detail at all.


----------



## Curse

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Did not like HD800 with Gung/mjo.
> Did like HD800 better with Soloist.
> Did not like Soloist with Audezes.
> Did like Mjolnir with Audezes.


 
  Thanks.
   
  MacedonianHero says it fairs ok with the Schiit, and i'll happily see which side i favor today (receiving HD-800).
  I hope it does OK, otherwise i'll switch over to something else that's balanced/solid state.


----------



## lugnut

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> BH Crack. Get it without the Speedball.


 
  Why without speedball ?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





curse said:


> Thanks.
> 
> MacedonianHero says it fairs ok with the Schiit, and i'll happily see which side i favor *today (receiving HD-800)*.
> I hope it does OK, otherwise i'll switch over to something else that's balanced/solid state.


 
  How exciting!! 
   
  Keep us informed


----------



## DarKen23

Thought this would be a interesting read
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=04fea777994d26cd84e01a5e54f4c01d&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Fmessages%2Fmessages%2Fview%2Fid%2F2099532%2Fbox%2F978649&v=1&libId=ce44c7e4-9922-4a3d-9035-b9452591fd1a&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.passdiy.com%2Fproject%2Famplifiers%2Fbuild-the-amazing-fet-circlotron&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Fmessages%2F&title=Private%20Message%3A%20Hello7&txt=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.passdiy.com%2Fproject%2Famplifiers%2Fbuild-the-amazing-fet-circlotron&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13781976716608


----------



## Curse

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> How exciting!!
> 
> Keep us informed


 
  Will do my friend! Fingers crossed!


----------



## Girls Generation

Good luck ~.~ Try Anax modding it if you think there's too much sibilance. Also toss the stock cables and try proper ones. I'm all for vocals and somehow the HD800 satisfied me, although it sounded heavenly with the Stratus vs. Mjo.
  Quote: 





curse said:


> Will do my friend! Fingers crossed!


----------



## perrew

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Good luck ~.~ Try Anax modding it if you think there's too much sibilance. Also toss the stock cables and try proper ones. I'm all for vocals and somehow the HD800 satisfied me, although it sounded heavenly with the Stratus vs. Mjo.


 
  What is a proper cable for the HD800?


----------



## Contrails

> the WA2 however, is absolutely amazing with HD 800s, especially when you have fully upgraded tubes like the GEC 6AS7G. its warm, sweet, transparent, clear, detailed, with great full sounding deep bass and rich mids. its very very good i think. warm and silky smooth but without sacrificing much detail at all.


 
   
  That is exactly the sound I am after! How far would the 5998s/6080wb be in comparison of sound quality to the GEC?
   
  I think the BH crack would be the way to go with aftermarket cables and anaxilus mod for the HD800.  I will then see how it pairs with the LF339.  I have read before these two do not like each other but I find it odd as the LF339 goes so well with literally every headphone, except the hd800 maybe.
   
  If anyone has already tried this, could you please take the time to write exactly what is wrong with this pairing? Too bright? No bass? Soundstage/Imaging not right?


----------



## wink

Quote:dleblanc343 





> The problem with the HE adaptor is that it's 8-10 ohms and made for the Hifiman orthos whereas the HD800 is 300 ohm and a dynamic.


 
  That is no real problem if the amp is built for a 8 ohm output.
   
  The headphone impedance is immaterial if it is 30 ohms or over.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





contrails said:


> That is exactly the sound I am after! How far would the 5998s/6080wb be in comparison of sound quality to the GEC?
> 
> I think the BH crack would be the way to go with aftermarket cables and anaxilus mod for the HD800.  I will then see how it pairs with the LF339.  I have read before these two do not like each other but I find it odd as the LF339 goes so well with literally every headphone, except the hd800 maybe.
> 
> If anyone has already tried this, could you please take the time to write exactly what is wrong with this pairing? Too bright? No bass? Soundstage/Imaging not right?


 
   
  haven't tried 6080WB, but the 5998 seems a little more veiled, its still a great tube especially compared to the cheaper more common 6AS7G/6080s , but lacks the ultra transparency of the GEC, both are on the warmish side, but the 5998 has stronger bass, the GEC seems to have a more beautiful midrange with better tone, very rich and organic, yet with extended treble that works with HD 800 quite well. the 5998 seems to roll off the treble slightly more, its a little warmer.
   
  i just find that the GEC loses a tiny bit of bass compared to 5998 (bass extension is still good though), in exchange for bass texture, sweeter midrange, more natural tone, more treble extension, and while having a similar wide soundstage, its more holographic with more dimension and space, its a very lively tube, more airy and detailed too than 5998. very smooth too, non fatiguing and natural with hd 800, despite the extra treble and air
   
  in my case, i prefer the 5998 with the Beyerdynamic T1, seems to pair better cause of the bass and the smoother treble. the GEC is too bass light with T1 and the extra detail doesn't really do a whole lot other than just make the beyers treble a little too bright for me.
   
  the GEC is much better than the 5998 with the HD 800, theres some crazy synergy going on with HD 800 and the GEC tube. its very very good.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Good luck ~.~ Try Anax modding it if you think there's too much sibilance. Also toss the stock cables and try proper ones.


 
  Or... 
   
He might just like the HD800's


----------



## MickeyVee

The Dragonfly is just OK with the HD800. In a pinch, it will do. It goes as louder that I would ever want but the soundstage is constricted, sounds a little thin and the bass a little flabby but surprisingly strong.  


darken23 said:


> How are the HD800 with dragfly


----------



## magiccabbage

Brought my rig to a store today to hear the HD800. Was using WA2 with 5998 tubes. It sounded amazing. I think I prefer it to my T1's. I will definitely be buying it soon. Also, I was really impressed with how it looked, photographs do not do it justice.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> Brought my rig to a store today to hear the HD800. Was using WA2 with 5998 tubes. It sounded amazing. I think I prefer it to my T1's. I will definitely be buying it soon. Also, I was really impressed with how it looked, photographs do not do it justice.




Yes!! And wait till u get GEC 6AS7G and amperex 6dj8 bugle boys!!!!! (With RFT EZ80)


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Yes!! And wait till u get GEC 6AS7G and amperex 6dj8 bugle boys!!!!! (With RFT EZ80)


 
  I was gob smacked. For some reason I had it in my head that it would sound lean and thin. Man I was wrong about that. The sound was HUGE! Even for electronic music it was great. The HD800 is louder than the T1 also.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

They both can get loud, the hd 800 is just much more expansive.

The wa2's warmth is what makes the hd 800 so full sounding


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> They both can get loud, the hd 800 is just much more expansive.
> 
> The wa2's warmth is what makes the hd 800 so full sounding


 
  yea there was no thinness at all, really warm big sound.


----------



## Girls Generation

Well, any cable other than stock I guess... For instance, DHC, HPL, Q, Moon, Whiplash...
  Quote: 





perrew said:


> What is a proper cable for the HD800?


 
   
  Hopefully... HD800 was an acquired taste for me.
  Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Or...
> 
> He might just like the HD800's


----------



## Curse

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Or...
> 
> He might just like the HD800's


 
  I love this guy for looking at it from such a positive standpoint.
   
  I'll grab a cable from Artemis or HPL.


----------



## perrew

girls generation said:


> Well, any cable other than stock I guess... For instance, DHC, HPL, Q, Moon, Whiplash...
> 
> Hopefully... HD800 was an acquired taste for me.



Whyv do you mean the silver over copper is the problem or what would be the gain with these other cables? What is wrong with the HD800 that is improved with another cable?


----------



## Girls Generation

The stock cable is composed of a very small gauge spc wire. Stock cable to me sounded bad, thin, no weight, etc. Using aftermarket brought the weight back and made things sound effortless. Of course this is all a very small improvement. No cable makes a night and day difference.
  Quote: 





perrew said:


> Whyv do you mean the silver over copper is the problem or what would be the gain with these other cables? What is wrong with the HD800 that is improved with another cable?


----------



## perrew

girls generation said:


> The stock cable is composed of a very small gauge spc wire. Stock cable to me sounded bad, thin, no weight, etc. Using aftermarket brought the weight back and made things sound effortless. Of course this is all a very small improvement. No cable makes a night and day difference.




Might have been a cheap amp or a cheap dac?


----------



## Girls Generation

At the time I used Mjol/Gung and XSabre/Stratus.
  Quote: 





perrew said:


> Might have been a cheap amp or a cheap dac?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> At the time I used Mjol/Gung and XSabre/Stratus.


 
  Hah! that explains everything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Get yourself one of those ipob's or whatever you call em, and plug that puppy into your amp. It's the way forward!


----------



## Curse

Edited.


----------



## Maxvla

There's probably a reason why Sennheiser only honors the warranty with Colorware and no other customization place. I would wonder about the long term durability of that pair modded by someone else.


----------



## zigy626

Looks bad...
  
 Quote:


>


----------



## Girls Generation

Who did you get coloured from?


----------



## Curse

Edited.


----------



## rawrster

Wow. Seeing those pics definitely made me cringe and I hate to see such a nice phone in that state :T I hope everything gets sorted out and I do hope that's not the fault of the mod but shipping or something.


----------



## Curse

Edited.


----------



## palmfish

palmfish said:


> BH Crack. Get it without the Speedball.


 
  
  


lugnut said:


> Why without speedball ?


 
  
 Because you might really like the way it sounds without it and call it good. You can always add it later. This is my experience...so far.


----------



## preproman

curse said:


> Imagine the soon to be owner waiting over the long weekend/labor day just to get these.
> 
> Now that i've had more time to examine it, even the exterior paint is of near amateur quality.


 
  
 Did you try to contact the seller to see if he would resolve the issue before posting this on the site?


----------



## brunk

preproman said:


> Did you try to contact the seller to see if he would resolve the issue before posting this on the site?


 
 This right here. Take it to a PM.


----------



## Curse

preproman said:


> Did you try to contact the seller to see if he would resolve the issue before posting this on the site?


 
 Did, awaiting reply.
  
 Just wanted to ask a simple question to the community on whether or not it was a removal thing.
 Got my answer though. It's broke.


----------



## BournePerfect

brunk said:


> This right here. Take it to a PM.


 
 Came in just to say this. Work out the details in private as best you can before someone's name get's smeared.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 Unless it's Prepo's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I kid, I kid.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## 282432

preproman said:


> Did you try to contact the seller to see if he would resolve the issue before posting this on the site?



+1


----------



## Maxvla

>




Now that I'm home at my desktop I can see these pictures better. The black paint on this part of the headphone is really quite bad.

Compare to colorware, same color, same area (pictures as good as I could get, sorry):


----------



## brunk

curse said:


> Did, awaiting reply.
> 
> Just wanted to ask a simple question to the community on whether or not it was a removal thing.
> *Got my answer though. It's broke.*


 
 Well that's too bad. I hope it works out for you in the end.


----------



## Curse

maxvla said:


> Now that I'm home at my desktop I can see these pictures better. The black paint on this part of the headphone is really quite bad.
> 
> Compare to colorware, same color, same area (pictures as good as I could get, sorry):


 
 Colorware did a really clean job on yours.


----------



## paradoxper

curse said:


> Did, awaiting reply.
> 
> Just wanted to ask a simple question to the community on whether or not it was a removal thing.
> Got my answer though. It's broke.


 
 No, you did not. And no you did not give me the opportunity before smearing my name.
  
 Furthermore, you didn't directly buy from me, you used a proxy buyer.
  
 As I told your proxy ship the phones back to me and I'll refund your money. Otherwise, I'll be contacting Ic3.gov. 
  
  
  
  
  
 And apologies for the dirty laundry.


----------



## Curse

paradoxper said:


> No, you did not. And no you did not give me the opportunity before smearing my name.
> 
> Furthermore, you didn't directly buy from me, you used a proxy buyer.
> 
> ...


 
 I removed the so called name smearing, you can even check my previous edited posts (done so quite some time ago).
 I only posted here to check if the headband was removable and who i got it from, which i took that info out later on due to common sense thinking.
  
 As for the threat of contacting Ic3.gov, i do not understand how or why i am in the wrong.
 You listed a "very mint condition" item but sent a product that has been partly disassembled like a transformer. If anything, you are sullying your own name.
  
 Anyway, it is better if you contact me through messages rather than to make a statement here on the HD-800 appreciation thread.
  
 Let's put this thread back on course and talk about the best tubes for the WA22 when using the HD-800.


----------



## paradoxper

curse said:


> I removed the so called name smearing, you can even check my previous edited posts (done so quite some time ago).
> I only posted here to check if the headband was removable and who i got it from, which i took that info out later on due to common sense thinking.
> 
> As for the threat of contacting Ic3.gov, i do not understand how or why i am in the wrong.
> ...


 
 You should have contacted me first, period. I'll PM you now.


----------



## BournePerfect

*puts popcorn down*
  
 BTW everybody-I purchased a WA5-LE to pair with the HD800s, and should be arriving this week. Can anyone suggest any tubes that are known to mate well with this amp and the Senns?
  
 Dubstep Girl-maybe your WA2 suggestions transfer over well to the WA5-or not? I know you're always talking up the GEC 6****...
  
 FWIW, I am receiving the stock tubes as well as the upgraded tubes that Woo provided to the original seller.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Senn-Fi

My best tubes for hd800 in a WA-22 are Western electric 421A, PSVane cv181t mark 2, and PSVane WE replica 274. Still need to try the sophia tubes though.


----------



## DarKen23

bourneperfect said:


> *puts popcorn down*
> 
> BTW everybody-I purchased a WA5-LE to pair with the HD800s, and should be arriving this week. Can anyone suggest any tubes that are known to mate well with this amp and the Senns?
> 
> ...


:evil:. Hand over the bha1. Cant wait for your impressions on the WA5-LE


----------



## BournePerfect

darken23 said:


> . Hand over the bha1. Cant wait for your impressions on the WA5-LE


 
  
 Wish I could have kept it. :/ Great amp-will be sorely missed. It's pretty difficult imo to find an ss amp that mates well with the HD800s. The Bryston, although not quite ideal-worked well enough to my ears-but I know from experience the higher end tube stuff seems to work wonders with the Senns more than any ss I've heard. Will definitely be posting impressions of the Woo-mainly in comparison to the ZDSE and Bryston-since those are the best amps I've owned so far. Should arrive this weekend.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

bourneperfect said:


> *puts popcorn down*
> 
> BTW everybody-I purchased a WA5-LE to pair with the HD800s, and should be arriving this week. Can anyone suggest any tubes that are known to mate well with this amp and the Senns?
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 WA5 - try EML or Mighty 596 rectifiers, and the best 6SN7 and 300B u can find. 
  
 btw, i was just about to post this, but i think its more appropriate now than ever.
  
  
  
 i just got Zana Deux #11 that i was going to try out before i decide to buy or not.
  
 well i'm listening right now comparing it to the WA2 with GEC 6AS7G and OMG.....the sound is almost IDENTI-fking-CAL!!!#!@#
  
 like the zana has a little more treble but warmer in the mids, but its almost identical to the GEC with the WA2. i'm kinda shocked. they sound equal and i think performance-wise, right on par, no difference. maybe the ZD has slightly blacker background, can't tell difference, and maybe slightly better separation/soundstage, but its so small, i don't even think theres a difference.
  
 the zana is amazingly good since i know how i rave about the GEC/WA2, but the fact that its identical just goes to show how good the GEC tubes are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (this is with sophia 6sl7 on the ZD as well)


----------



## longbowbbs

dubstep girl said:


> bourneperfect said:
> 
> 
> > *puts popcorn down*
> ...


----------



## BournePerfect

Give the Zana some time DS. I remember when I first had it for a while, I thought it was no different from most amps I tried. Then it eventually dawned on me and opened my ears. It's all about the subtleties with EC amps. The things you mentioned are the obvious stuff...then once you get acclimated to it, you go back to prior amps and realize what was missing. Inner details galore, microdynamics, dynamic shifts within those inner details...etc etc. Not saying your WA2 doesn't do that (no idea, I haven't heard it)-but I know EC amps have a ton of subtle things going on that take a while to recognize-then it's obvious going back to lesser amps. My .02.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i just hear a slightly blacker background, the soundstage is a little wider, and theres a little more separation, a little more forward mids, a lighter sound, partly cause the mids are a little more forward and/or the ZD is a little faster.
  
 the WA2 is a little more laid back, and while the soundstage is similar, seems like the WA2 just sounds a little more compressed, but its subtle, very subtle, it might even be placebo.
  
 i never heard amps sound so identical. the tonality, the bass, the overall sound signature, its sooo similar. 
  
 transparency, detail, resolution, tonality, euphonics, warmth, bass, extension, treble, its all so identical. its scary, i didn't think they would be like this, i thought ZD was gonna be night and day or something. i didn't expect the ZD to be this warm either.
  
 now of course, if the WA2 was stock, without all the upgraded tubes, it would be no comparison, the ZD would completely destroy it. without the GEC tubes, the WA2 just can't compare.
  
 either way, i think i'm gonna place my deposit on the MK2 tomorrow morning. 
 and get an upper woo in the future or just keep the WA2 i love so much.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

now with the TH-900, there was some crazy synergy going on, very good, but i don't think i'll keep it. i'm placing order for GSX MK2 tomorrow for LCD-3/HE-500. keeping the woos for now.


----------



## Contrails

> and get an upper woo in the future or just keep the WA2 i love so much.


 
  
 Can I be no. 1 in line to pick up the WA2 from you if you do decide to sell it?


----------



## BournePerfect

I'm telling you-don't judge the Zana that quick...it literally took me months to come to grips with it. At one point I thought it SOUNDED IDENTICAL to my Eximus built it headamp. I can tell by your description so far that you haven't come close to understanding the Zana. I hope that doesn't come across rude-like you're hearing wrong or something lol-but if there was EVER an amp that needed to be LIVED with for a while to come to terms with it's finest, subtlest nuances-the Zana is it.
  
 Glad it sounds good to you now though. Just don't sell yourself short of learning what it really can do. Everything else I've heard sounds like **** in comparison-as those subtlies that I finally acclimated to are pretty much non-exestent.
  
 Should be VERY interesting hearing the WA5-LE this weekend and seeing how it compares to the ZDSE. Stock and upgraded tube package btw...
  
 -DAniel


----------



## MacedonianHero

bourneperfect said:


> I'm telling you-don't judge the Zana that quick...it literally took me months to come to grips with it. At one point I thought it SOUNDED IDENTICAL to my Eximus built it headamp. I can tell by your description so far that you haven't come close to understanding the Zana. I hope that doesn't come across rude-like you're hearing wrong or something lol-but if there was EVER an amp that needed to be LIVED with for a while to come to terms with it's finest, subtlest nuances-the Zana is it.
> 
> Glad it sounds good to you now though. Just don't sell yourself short of learning what it really can do. Everything else I've heard sounds like **** in comparison-as those subtlies that I finally acclimated to are pretty much non-exestent.
> 
> ...


 
 Looking forward to this comparison. My $ is on the WA5-LE.


----------



## BournePerfect

dubstep girl said:


> now with the TH-900, there was some crazy synergy going on, very good, but i don't think i'll keep it. i'm placing order for GSX MK2 tomorrow for LCD-3/HE-500. keeping the woos for now.


 
  
 Yep! Crazy synergy with that Fostex! I still sold it in favor of the HD800 though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

bourneperfect said:


> I'm telling you-don't judge the Zana that quick...it literally took me months to come to grips with it. At one point I thought it SOUNDED IDENTICAL to my Eximus built it headamp. I can tell by your description so far that you haven't come close to understanding the Zana. I hope that doesn't come across rude-like you're hearing wrong or something lol-but if there was EVER an amp that needed to be LIVED with for a while to come to terms with it's finest, subtlest nuances-the Zana is it.
> 
> Glad it sounds good to you now though. Just don't sell yourself short of learning what it really can do. Everything else I've heard sounds like **** in comparison-as those subtlies that I finally acclimated to are pretty much non-exestent.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 i don't have time to keep it lol, some1 wants to buy it and just for the HD 800, being almost extra
  
 and your description of the zana sounds just like what i would say about the Beyerdynamic T1 and the WA2. 
  
 but umm, no, i do notice its slightly better, but its sooo small, such a tiny tiny difference, i can't really say its better, or that i'm 100% sure i actually hear it. then again. mostly seems like the midrange is more forward maybe a little more plapable and separated, the WA2 slightly more laid back, but its such a small difference, i don't think its worth it. its basically identical, i can't really even say they sound different, and i've never had this happen to me, i always hear a difference. its so small, i can't justify it, at least not now, if i was rich, i'd probably just keep the Zana for the hell of it, it looks like a really cool amp too.
  
 if i had a stock or even a 5998'd WA2, i wouldn't think twice about it, the WA2 would be boxed up, and sold right now. it would be no match, thats how much of an improvement the GEC tubes are with HD 800. its HUGE!!!!!
  
 and i do think very highly of the zana now. lemme tell you, i HATED balancing act, it was very bright with HD 800, sounded too analytical, and was bland with TH-900. i heard more clarity and neutrality, but i didn't like it. i don't know if it was the stock tubes, but it really didn't wow me. i was expecting this when i heard zana, some very crystal clear sound thats bright and fast. and i was shocked to hear warmth, euphonic midrange, and such beautiful tube sound, the same sound i have with WA2/GEC, that was really surprising. and i haven't said it yet, but the HD 800/WA2 is the best i've heard so far, i don't really use my HE-500, TH-900, or even the LCD-3, i just switch between HD 800 and T1 cause the HD 800 especially sounds so good with the WA2, such perfect tonality and transparency, the smoothness, it just is so close to being perfect. and to have the ZD do that, shows thats its really good. right out of the box, its as good as a WA2 with rare and expensive tubes.


----------



## nk77

bourneperfect said:


> *I'm telling you-don't judge the Zana that quick...it literally took me months to come to grips with it. *


 
   
 I'm assuming you will spend more than a single weekend to judge the WA5-LE right?
  
 Quote:


bourneperfect said:


> *Should be VERY interesting hearing the WA5-LE this weekend and seeing how it compares to the ZDSE. Stock and upgraded tube package btw...*
> 
> -DAniel


----------



## BournePerfect

macedonianhero said:


> Looking forward to this comparison. My $ is on the WA5-LE.


 
  
 For the $3500+ price point with the tubepackage upgrade-I'd hope so.  Have you heard the HD800 on it Peter? What were your impressions?


dubstep girl said:


> i don't have time to keep it lol, some1 wants to buy it and just for the HD 800, being almost extra
> 
> and your description of the zana sounds just like what i would say about the Beyerdynamic T1 and the WA2.
> 
> ...


 
 Glad your 15 minute impressions are holding strong. 
  


nk77 said:


>


 
  
_*No actually-I intend to listen to it for an hour-claim to know everything about it's nuances-and sell it the following day. Takers?*_
  
 -Daniel


----------



## nk77

bourneperfect said:


> _*No actually-I intend to listen to it for an hour-claim to know everything about it's nuances-and sell it the following day. Takers?*_
> 
> -Daniel


 
  





Keep us posted then. I will be on the lookout on the for sale threads for a half priced WA5LE.


----------



## nk77

@BournePerfect - is that with the DP1 DAC as well?


----------



## BournePerfect

Unfortunately no-I sold the Eximus to help fund an uber dac later this year. I'll be using the V800 with the Woo. I am extremely familiar with the DP-1 sound though-having listened to it for hundreds of hours over more than a year-mostly with the ZDSE.I'm still coming to grips with the V800 now-and I can already tell that it shares some nice qualities I preferred onthe DP-1, while perhaps being better in other areas. I've tried/owned enough dacs in the 1k-3k range to know that there aren't huge differences between them. In fact the most unique was the Eximus, mainly for it's uncanny 3D like presentation, and musicality. The v800 also tends to walk the line of being technically competent, but pretty musical as well. Both dacs put you very close to the performers, and seem fairly forward sounding. The v800 definitely has the harder hitting bass though...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## earnjiang

think so,It's a good chance that one is forced to purchase an amp that could be the older revision, and thus the OCD will force an added 4000 USD for an Aeristaeus.


----------



## BournePerfect

I love some first posts this thread seems to attract.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> now with the TH-900, there was some crazy synergy going on, very good, but i don't think i'll keep it. i'm placing order for GSX MK2 tomorrow for LCD-3/HE-500. keeping the woos for now.


 
 pulling the trigger on the GSX, cant wait to hear impressions. I'm thinking a lot about this amp as well lately. It would be really nice to have tube and SS for the hd800.


----------



## nk77

bourneperfect said:


> Unfortunately no-I sold the Eximus to help fund an uber dac later this year. I'll be using the V800 with the Woo. I am extremely familiar with the DP-1 sound though-having listened to it for hundreds of hours over more than a year-mostly with the ZDSE.I'm still coming to grips with the V800 now-and I can already tell that it shares some nice qualities I preferred onthe DP-1, while perhaps being better in other areas. I've tried/owned enough dacs in the 1k-3k range to know that there aren't huge differences between them. In fact the most unique was the Eximus, mainly for it's uncanny 3D like presentation, and musicality. The v800 also tends to walk the line of being technically competent, but pretty musical as well. Both dacs put you very close to the performers, and seem fairly forward sounding. The v800 definitely has the harder hitting bass though...
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Interesting to note a few people chasing DACs that I _presume _works against what I believe the HD800 is best known for - its artificial soundstage. To appreciate the entire width of the stage surely what is generally regarded the best seats in the house are not right in front of the musicians (or the box for that matter mostly due to the angle but I digress). Or perhaps the DAC brings it clos*er *to the musicians yet you can still appreciate the width is what you meant to say? 
  
 Me...I'm chasing a DAC to put me right beside the musicians so it sounds like I'm playing alongside them. Because honestly, that's where I'd rather be....Again though, I digress.


----------



## spkrs01

I will be turning my focus back to Headphones in the coming months and am overhauling my desktop rig. 
  
At present I am using the MC19 > Hiface 2 > Violectric V800 > V200 and an exorbitant amount on cables...I have had this rig for about a year and I am pretty sure that I have maxed out it's performance potential.
  
I have a Metrum HEX on the way, and yesterday ordered the last/ a canceled order, Cavalli LAu.
  
 Has anyone had the pleasure of listening to the LAu with the HD800?
  
 Also I am pretty set on my tube amp and have placed an order for an upcoming amp, but if there are other options out there that you guys can recommend for the HD800, I am open to suggestions? 
  
 Many thanks......................


----------



## BournePerfect

There you go-that's precisely what the Eximus does. Even thought the v800 puts the performance right in front of you-the Eximus seems to put you in the midst of it. Very addicting presentation imo. The M7 seemed to put you a number of rows back-watching the performance on a wide horizontal stage-not really intimate at all imo.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

spkrs01 said:


> I will be turning my focus back to Headphones in the coming months and am overhauling my desktop rig.
> 
> At present I am using the MC19 > Hiface 2 > Violectric V800 > V200 and an exorbitant amount on cables...I have had this rig for about a year and I am pretty sure that I have maxed out it's performance potential.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Budget?
 $1k Wa2
 $1.5k Super 7
 $2k ZDSE
 $2.5k Stratus or ECP L-2
 $3k WA5-LE
 $3-4k EC 2A3x4
 Unobtanium: Leviathan
  
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

bourneperfect said:


> Budget?
> $1k Wa2
> $1.5k Super 7
> $2k ZDSE
> ...


 
  
 +1
  
 sounds about right!


----------



## spkrs01

bourneperfect said:


> Budget?
> $1k Wa2
> $1.5k Super 7
> $2k ZDSE
> ...


 
  
 Well I have ordered the Coffman Labs H1-A, it is in the final stages of testing before production, as I love the 3.5mm inputs, since I probably have every hi end DAP available to plug in..........but another tube amp is not gonna hurt


----------



## DarKen23

spkrs01 said:


> I will be turning my focus back to Headphones in the coming months and am overhauling my desktop rig.
> 
> At present I am using the MC19 > Hiface 2 > Violectric V800 > V200 and an exorbitant amount on cables...I have had this rig for about a year and I am pretty sure that I have maxed out it's performance potential.
> 
> ...


I've pre-ordered the Decware CSP3+


----------



## palmfish

nk77 said:


> Interesting to note a few people chasing DACs that I _presume _works against what I believe the HD800 is best known for - its artificial soundstage. To appreciate the entire width of the stage surely what is generally regarded the best seats in the house are not right in front of the musicians (or the box for that matter mostly due to the angle but I digress). Or perhaps the DAC brings it clos*er *to the musicians yet you can still appreciate the width is what you meant to say?
> 
> Me...I'm chasing a DAC to put me right beside the musicians so it sounds like I'm playing alongside them. Because honestly, that's where I'd rather be....Again though, I digress.


 
 I think microphone placement and careful use of reverb in the mixing is the best way to guarantee a certain seat in the house. I think switching DAC's (and even headphones) is more like leaning your head a few inches one way or the other.


----------



## spkrs01

darken23 said:


> I've pre-ordered the Decware CSP3+


 
  
 Thanks, I will look into this!


----------



## Currawong

Ok, I'm back in. Couldn't resist. I just now Anax-modded a pair. I have the ALO Studio Six on loan too with NOS tubes, which are more on the neutral side-of-things. The sound wasn't working with the LCD-3s (which could just be me) but might be that I need more v-shaped sounding tubes.
  
 I need to try the WA7 though. I've also seen positive comments about the the ECP Audio L-2 which is somewhat similar (same tubes and similar design but with Lundahl transformers) which has piqued my interest.


----------



## LugBug1

^^Love to read your thoughts on the mod vs un modded?


----------



## Sorrodje

lugbug1 said:


> ^^Love to read your thoughts on the mod vs un modded?


 
  
 +1


----------



## longbowbbs

darken23 said:


> I've pre-ordered the Decware CSP3+


 
 You are going to love it with the HD800's! Decware gear is fantastic and a great value.


----------



## longbowbbs

spkrs01 said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > I've pre-ordered the Decware CSP3+
> ...


 
 The website still lists the CSP2+. They are transitioning to the new models for 3 amps. During the transition time you can order the older model at the lower price and you will receive the newer model with the upgrades. It'll save about $250 USD. www.decware.com


----------



## MickeyVee

My WA7 is en route now via USPS with the upgraded tubes. Hoping to see it when I get home after work every day but no such luck yet. May be a while shipping to Canada. Hopefully will be able to post some initial impressions a few days after I have it.  Waiting...



currawong said:


> Ok, I'm back in. Couldn't resist. I just now Anax-modded a pair. I have the ALO Studio Six on loan too with NOS tubes, which are more on the neutral side-of-things. The sound wasn't working with the LCD-3s (which could just be me) but might be that I need more v-shaped sounding tubes.
> 
> I need to try the WA7 though. I've also seen positive comments about the the ECP Audio L-2 which is somewhat similar (same tubes and similar design but with Lundahl transformers) which has piqued my interest.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Following Dubstep Girl's advice, my WA6-SE will be here in less than 12 hours.  Can't wait to see or hear if it can indeed pair well with both my T1 and HD800.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sp3llv3xit said:


> Following Dubstep Girl's advice, my WA6-SE will be here in less than 12 hours.  Can't wait to see or hear if it can indeed pair well with both my T1 and HD800.





Awesome!!! The wa6-se is great for both, especially if you want wide soundstage detail and dynamics over silky smoothness like the wa2. U where the one looking for something with more drive and dynamics over the wa6 right?

I liked sophia and 6fd7/6ew7 with hd 800/t1 as well as the eml 5u4g tube.

The 596/6gl7 works ok with hd 800 but not t1, have fun tube rolling!


----------



## sp3llv3xit

dubstep girl said:


> Awesome!!! The wa6-se is great for both, especially if you want wide soundstage detail and dynamics over silky smoothness like the wa2. U where the one looking for something with more drive and dynamics over the wa6 right?
> 
> I liked sophia and 6fd7/6ew7 with hd 800/t1 as well as the eml 5u4g tube.
> 
> The 596/6gl7 works ok with hd 800 but not t1, have fun tube rolling!


 
 . 
 Thanks.  I bought the Sofia as well. Too bad I got the 6GL7!  What do you mean when you say it does not work well with the T1? 

 They should be here in about 3 hours.  I'll post some pics when I get them.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sp3llv3xit said:


> .
> Thanks.  I bought the Sofia as well. Too bad I got the 6GL7!  What do you mean when you say it does not work well with the T1?
> 
> They should be here in about 3 hours.  I'll post some pics when I get them.


 
  
 never tried sophia + 6gl7 with T1, i'm guessing it might actually be decent, probably have alot of bass.
  
 i did not like the 6GL7 with the 596 rectifier combo with the T1, that one seemed very SS like but slightly dark, was ok with HD 800, but bright and dry with the T1.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

doing some more listening with the ZD before i go to sleep. 
  
 switched that sophia 6SL7 with the sylvania one and the back tubes whatever they're called, from the sylvania to the GE. 
  
 and holy ****, huge difference.
  
 the sound is very very transparent. completely black background, huge soundstage, very detailed and very lively forward mids. 
  
 however, now there is a slight brightness to the sound, and the euphonic slightly lush sound i heard with the 6SL7 is gone, now its very fast and SS like, but with a liquid like magic to it, a really smooth decay, that is very natural, there is no euphonic warmth though, its weird, the midrange doesn't have that tubeish tonality to it anymore, not warm, fast like SS, but liquid with smoothed out decay and very detailed and transparent like you wouldn't believe, like zero grain.
  
 however, theres no bass anymore. this amp is fast as hell though! i think faster than SS, like the transients are insanely fast. very impressive. i can see someone who loves to hear details, spacial cues, nuances, and loves perfect transients would love this amp.
  
 i'm gonna tube roll a little more with the other tubes i have. i'm kinda liking this. probably won't keep though, since the sound doesn't have that fullness or that bass i like. interesting though how the sophia 6SL7 made the sound almost identical to the WA2 with the GEC, now i can tell this is a better amp, but its not necessarily the sound i would be looking for in the HD 800. i can see now why people describe the Zana as fast and SS like but with tube characteristics.
  
  
 the WA2 is definitely much more lush, smaller soundstage, transparency is similar, slightly less maybe but just as much detail, the ZD just brings it out more cause of the faster sound + decay, the WA2 is more laid back.


----------



## James-uk

Had a good day at work followed by some skiing lessons at the local snow dome, the better half is in bed, I've cracked open a beer and now I'm listening to some of my favourites on the 800s with the HDVD800. We really are a privileged bunch of people!


----------



## sp3llv3xit

dubstep girl said:


> doing some more listening with the ZD before i go to sleep.
> 
> switched that sophia 6SL7 with the sylvania one and the back tubes whatever they're called, from the sylvania to the GE.
> 
> ...


 


 You bought the ZD ?!?!?


----------



## sp3llv3xit

james-uk said:


> Had a good day at work followed by some skiing lessons at the local snow dome, the better half is in bed, I've cracked open a beer and now I'm listening to some of my favourites on the 800s with the HDVD800. We really are a privileged bunch of people!


 
  
  
 We are, indeed!

 Reminds me of the line by Ayn Rand:

 "The person above is the source of your envy.  The person below, your guilt."

 She was referring to how guilt is used by the early Church in its indoctrination.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sp3llv3xit said:


> You bought the ZD ?!?!?


 
  
 no i was potentially buying the used one for sale here on the forums. they sent it to me to evaluate it and decide if i wanted it or not.
  
 right now, i know one things for sure, i think i could use an upgrade from WA2, something with the type of clarity and soundstage the zana provides, but with warmth and fullness of like the WA2, as well as that bass. the Zana with the warmer sophia 6SL7 is basically identical to the WA2 with the maxed out tubes, and with the sylvania 6sl7, its very fast and clear sounding, but also lacks bass and warmth, becomes a little too fast and bright for me, though i am extremely impressed by what it can do, its just not for me, i need a little more warmth.
  
 can't wait to see what the GS-X will offer. i'm not expecting it to be great with HD 800 and T1, i'm looking for a tube amp for those. if for some reason, the GSX does become amazing with them, that'll be even better. but mostly i bought it for the LCD-3 and HE-500/future HE-6 as well as TH-900


----------



## sp3llv3xit

dubstep girl said:


> no i was potentially buying the used one for sale here on the forums. they sent it to me to evaluate it and decide if i wanted it or not.
> 
> right now, i know one things for sure, i think i could use an upgrade from WA2, something with the type of clarity and soundstage the zana provides, but with warmth and fullness of like the WA2, as well as that bass. the Zana with the warmer sophia 6SL7 is basically identical to the WA2 with the maxed out tubes, and with the sylvania 6sl7, its very fast and clear sounding, but also lacks bass and warmth, becomes a little too fast and bright for me, though i am extremely impressed by what it can do, its just not for me, i need a little more warmth.
> 
> can't wait to see what the GS-X will offer. i'm not expecting it to be great with HD 800 and T1, i'm looking for a tube amp for those. if for some reason, the GSX does become amazing with them, that'll be even better. but mostly i bought it for the LCD-3 and HE-500/future HE-6 as well as TH-900


 


 GS-X employs the JFET topology, right?  

 I've heard the T1 with my uncle's mosfet amp.  It may be SS but it was by far the best sounding pairing I've heard with the T1.  Soundstage depth may have been doubled and there was an increase in width as well.  The sonic field was greatly enhanced.  It may be fast but brevity in treble and bass extensions were never an issue.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sp3llv3xit said:


> GS-X employs the JFET topology, right?
> 
> I've heard the T1 with my uncle's mosfet amp.  It may be SS but it was by far the best sounding pairing I've heard with the T1.  Soundstage depth may have been doubled and there was an increase in width as well.  The sonic field was greatly enhanced.  It may be fast but brevity in treble and bass extensions were never an issue.


----------



## DarKen23

longbowbbs said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > I've pre-ordered the Decware CSP3+
> ...



I sure hope so! Ive been trying to stay away as much as possible from tube amps only because Ive never heard one thats impressed me, and Ive never heard the HD800 on tubes. "Fear of the unknown", but theres no denying the countless posts of tubes and HD800. I feel pretty confident about the csp3+


----------



## scolaiw

dubstep girl said:


> right now, i know one things for sure, i think i could use an upgrade from WA2, something with the type of clarity and soundstage the zana provides, but with warmth and fullness of like the WA2, as well as that bass. the Zana with the warmer sophia 6SL7 is basically identical to the WA2 with the maxed out tubes, and with the sylvania 6sl7, its very fast and clear sounding, but also lacks bass and warmth, becomes a little too fast and bright for me, though i am extremely impressed by what it can do, its just not for me, i need a little more warmth.




Where does the WA22 stand in all this? I figured it would be a very nice competitor to the ZD.


----------



## skeptic

sp3llv3xit said:


> GS-X employs the JFET topology, right?
> 
> 
> I've heard the T1 with my uncle's mosfet amp.  It may be SS but it was by far the best sounding pairing I've heard with the T1.  Soundstage depth may have been doubled and there was an increase in width as well.  The sonic field was greatly enhanced.  It may be fast but brevity in treble and bass extensions were never an issue.




Don't think so. It's a very well executed commercial balanced dynalo, which is a bjt amp. 

Dr. Gilmore did design a dynahi revision using mosfets (the dynafet), but I don't know of anyone who has completed that build.


----------



## Leliana

mickeyvee said:


> My WA7 is en route now via USPS with the upgraded tubes. Hoping to see it when I get home after work every day but no such luck yet. May be a while shipping to Canada. Hopefully will be able to post some initial impressions a few days after I have it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'll be looking forward to your impressions.
  
 I might be getting a HD800 soon to pair with either the WA7 or soloist myself.


----------



## navigavi

I'm planning to buy the HD-800 for my violectric stack (V800 dac, V200 amp, Kimber Kable Hero XLR interconnects). I'm playing from a desktop pc via optical out on the Asus Essence STX soundcard (foobar 2000). My current headphones are the HD-580. The sound is amazing.
 Will an upgrade to the hd-800 make a huge difference in sound quality with my current setup? Any people with similar setups wanting to share their experience?


----------



## DarKen23

navigavi said:


> I'm planning to buy the HD-800 for my violectric stack (V800 dac, V200 amp, Kimber Kable Hero XLR interconnects). I'm playing from a desktop pc via optical out on the Asus Essence STX soundcard (foobar 2000). My current headphones are the HD-580. The sound is amazing.
> Will an upgrade to the hd-800 make a huge difference in sound quality with my current setup? Any people with similar setups wanting to share their experience?



Leave the V stack. The rest of the change should be significant. Maybe go usb audio instead.


----------



## roskodan

i've the V800 + V200, had the Beyer T1 and LCD2.2 first but when auditioned the HD800, on the Violectric stack, listening to Ana Caram Correnteza, i was just blown away by the naturalness and effortless
  
 www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WgY1IoeqUY&hd=1
  
 now i've the hd800 and lcd2


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Dubstep Girl told me to avoid the 6GL7.  Now, I've only listened to them tubes for less than 3 hours (straight).  With the HD800, they sound perfect (airy and wide).  With the T1, there seems to be a weird peaking at around the 20k region.  Could this be the reason why she advised against the 6GL7?


----------



## magiccabbage

Great pics!


----------



## longbowbbs

That Sophia is beautiful!


----------



## sp3llv3xit

magiccabbage said:


> Great pics!


 

 Thanks.  Photography was my hobby before this... this... thing came along.


----------



## wink

This... this...thing is a wallet killer.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

wink said:


> This... this...thing is a wallet killer.


 
  
  
 You... You.... Put it so correctly.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Wow great pics lol,

I advised against 6gl7 on t1 because its a rather U shaped response. The tube tends to sound great on fast bright sounding rectifiers and with some types of headphones, especially things like hifiman and audeze, its great cause of its high gain.

With the wrong rectifier, the bass can get bloaty and the sound will be darker or recessed, but with some weird treble issues. Works fine with hifiman and audeze cause they love the extra power, but for other things, theres better tubes.

I like sophia with 6ew7 or 6fd7 on the T1. The 6ew7 being the warmest with a huge soundstage, nice smooth tube combo


----------



## sp3llv3xit

dubstep girl said:


> never tried sophia + 6gl7 with T1, i'm guessing it might actually be decent, probably have alot of bass.
> 
> i did not like the 6GL7 with the 596 rectifier combo with the T1, that one seemed very SS like but slightly dark, was ok with HD 800, but bright and dry with the T1.


 
  
 Bass is indeed heavy but I have been expecting the bass to be more pronounced and stronger than the HD800.  So, no surprise there.  But the treble is peaking at around 20k region.  It jolted me out of my comfort zone a few times early this evening.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

dubstep girl said:


> Wow great pics lol,
> 
> I advised against 6gl7 on t1 because its a rather U shaped response. The tube tends to sound great on fast bright sounding rectifiers and with some types of headphones, especially things like hifiman and audeze, its great cause of its high gain.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 I'll remember that.  6EW7.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Deends on tubes, but the hd 800 and t1 have similar bass quantity. I feel the t1 can sometimes have more subbass, the hd 800s bass has more slam though and is wider sounding cause of the drivers, hard to explain. Also wa6-se has more bass with hd 800 than t1 cause of amp type. With wa2 its other way around.

But yeah try other tubes besides 6GL7 with the t1, which needs warmer tubes


----------



## Dubstep Girl

What tubes did jack include stock? Usually he throws 6ew7 in with the amp, ill be surprised if he didnt or if he gave ya something else


----------



## Jd007

sp3llv3xit said:


> Bass is indeed heavy but I have been expecting the bass to be more pronounced and stronger than the HD800.  So, no surprise there.  But the treble is peaking at around 20k region.  It jolted me out of my comfort zone a few times early this evening.




How young are you that you can hear 20khz? You must be under 18 or something. I feel old... Also what music has stuff in that frequency region, or are you doing a sweep?


----------



## palmfish

A couple of questions that have come up recently...

1. What exactly are "Sophia tubes?"

Reading their website, it appears they don't make tubes but rather acquire NOS tubes and categorize them into quality ratings based on how they test? So if you buy one, how do you know if it's an RCA, Siemens, Silvania, or Mullard, etc.? Don't they all have different signatures?

2. Recent focus on the GS-X has me wondering...

The GS-X is a refinement of the GS-1 (primarily the power supply and XLR outputs) so I imagine that the audible improvements over the GS-1 would be rather small/subtle. A little google searching turned up the Sheer Audio HA-006, which is another dynalo amp that claims comparable performance to the GS-1. Is it fair to say that if all of these amps strictly follow Kevin Gilmores model, wouldnt the $450 HA-006 be a good choice for the HD800?

And also, where does the Gilmore Lite fit in? Used examples with separate power supply are regularly listed for about $300.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

palmfish said:


> 1. What exactly are "Sophia tubes?"
> 
> Reading their website, it appears they don't make tubes but rather acquire NOS tubes and categorize them into quality ratings based on how they test? So if you buy one, how do you know if it's an RCA, Siemens, Silvania, or Mullard, etc.? Don't they all have different signatures?


 
  
Sophia tubes. (Click on "Tubes" in left hand nav)
  
 I've owned Sophia rectifiers and liked them, though I'm not sure the cost vs. good NOS tubes was justified.


----------



## khaine1711

Sophia does not "refurbish" NOS tubes. They are new production tubes. I heard they're just TJ Full music rebranded (internal looks the same).
  
 Money is better spent on NOS tubes instead imo.


----------



## Jd007

palmfish said:


> A couple of questions that have come up recently...
> 
> 2. Recent focus on the GS-X has me wondering...
> 
> ...




I believe the newer gs-x mk2 actually uses improved dynalo+ boards so there are more differences than just separate psu chassis and balanced input output. How much of a difference that makes though I'm not sure


----------



## perrew

GS-X is more or less two GS-1s side by side so you get a real balanced amp.
The GS-1 could/can be updated with the Dynalo+ module though.
I think the GS-1 is sufficient to drive the HD800 though but havent tried the GS-X so cant judge the difference.


----------



## BournePerfect

My Dynalo, which according to some, was a great build-sounded pretty bad with the HD800. I would *hope* the GSX fleshes the sound out a bit more-and imagine it does going by impressions around here.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## palmfish

The Dynalos are supposed to be "wire with gain" type amps, right? 

With an easy to drive headphone like the HD800, they should all sound more or less the same. I haven't heard any of them, but if the above is true, then I would expect what,any head-fiers describe as a "thin, dry, and bright" sound from the HD800 - much like the Objective2.


----------



## BournePerfect

palmfish said:


> The Dynalos are supposed to be "wire with gain" type amps, right?
> 
> With an easy to drive headphone like the HD800, they should all sound more or less the same. I haven't heard any of them, but if the above is true, then I would expect what,any head-fiers describe as a *"thin, dry, and bright"* sound from the HD800 - much like the Objective2.


 
  
  
 That's precisely what I experienced. 
  
 I don't know about the 'wire with a gain' that gets thrown around so much. The most dead neutral amp I EVER heard was the Master 8-and even though I found it completely lifeless with the HD800-I didn't really find the treble too bothersome like most every other ss amp I tried the Senns on.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## perrew

"....the power levels of the GS-1 are well suited for the mass of high-end headphones that includes the Sennheiser 600 thru 800, Grados, etc...as well as for use as a speaker pre-amp."
http://www.head-fi.org/t/599552/where-does-the-headamp-gs-1-stand-now/30


----------



## Painterspal

khaine1711 said:


> Sophia does not "refurbish" NOS tubes. They are new production tubes. I heard they're just TJ Full music rebranded (internal looks the same).
> 
> Money is better spent on NOS tubes instead imo.


 
  
 I'm not sure if that's true for their whole range but my Full Music 6SN7 look exactly the same as the Sophia Electric equivalent. As to which is the rebrand I couldn't say. I'm very happy with my Full Music valves.


----------



## silversurfer616

Is this Bobby Moore on your avatar?


----------



## MickeyVee

Just picked up the WA7 from the Post Office and setup it up.  Man is this thing small compared to the Schiit stack (ok, the power supply is huge but is sitting under my desk).
  
 Although I ordered the stock Sovtek and upgraded Electro-Harmonix tubes, I'll let it break in with the Sovtek to get used to the sound signature. First song.. The Longest Road (Deadmou5 ReMix).. Wow, this thing kicks out the bass. Now to give it some time, let it and me break in with a variety of music and a Rust Nail (Scotch & Drambuie) or two or three...


----------



## MacedonianHero

bourneperfect said:


> My Dynalo, which according to some, was a great build-sounded pretty bad with the HD800. I would *hope* the GSX fleshes the sound out a bit more-and imagine it does going by impressions around here.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Really? I loved the GS-1/HD800 combo. So much more than the ZD/HD800 that I heard (very uninspiring).


----------



## DarKen23

mickeyvee said:


> Just picked up the WA7 from the Post Office and setup it up.  Man is this thing small compared to the Schiit stack (ok, the power supply is huge but is sitting under my desk).
> 
> Although I ordered the stock Sovtek and upgraded Electro-Harmonix tubes, I'll let it break in with the Sovtek to get used to the sound signature. First song.. The Longest Road (Deadmou5 ReMix).. Wow, this thing kicks out the bass. Now to give it some time, let it and me break in with a variety of music and a Rust Nail (Scotch & Drambuie) or two or three...


Very nice . Congrats


----------



## BournePerfect

macedonianhero said:


> Really? I loved the GS-1/HD800 combo. So much more than the ZD/HD800 that I heard (very uninspiring).


 
  
  
 Are you going off of 5 minute meet impressions like Rob-or did you have some time to spend with it? Also-the 6SN7 plays a major role in the sound as the ZDSE is so transparent, you can get almost any sound you want with tube rolling ime.
  
 What dac were you using with the GS-1? I was using a somewhat warm AGD (SA-1) and it still sounded annoyingly harsh and brittle.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

bourneperfect said:


> Are you going off of 5 minute meet impressions like Rob-or did you have some time to spend with it? Also-the *6SN7* plays a major role in the sound as the ZDSE is so transparent, you can get almost any sound you want with tube rolling ime.
> 
> What dac were you using with the GS-1? I was using a somewhat warm AGD (SA-1) and it still sounded annoyingly harsh and brittle.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 6SL7*
  
 listening this weekend more with HD 800/ZD this weekend, seems like it can go from very fast and transparent yet somewhat bass light and bright to being slightly warm and smoother, like the WA2 with the GEC tubes. i think i prefer the latter. the other  sound seemed a little too bright for me. though the clarity is amazing, but no euphonic warmth with it.


----------



## MacedonianHero

bourneperfect said:


> Are you going off of 5 minute meet impressions like Rob-or did you have some time to spend with it? Also-the 6SN7 plays a major role in the sound as the ZDSE is so transparent, you can get almost any sound you want with tube rolling ime.
> 
> What dac were you using with the GS-1? I was using a somewhat warm AGD (SA-1) and it still sounded annoyingly harsh and brittle.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 A good 30 minutes. Here are my notes...lacks the warmth of a tube amp, but also seems to miss the accuracy and quickness of a solid state amp. At least with the WA22, I got the former. Same results with the LCD-2s. 
  
 That's the thing with "wire with gain", if you don't like what you hear....it will only show you what you have upstream.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

macedonianhero said:


> A good 30 minutes. Here are my notes...lacks the warmth of a tube amp, but also seems to miss the accuracy and quickness of a solid state amp. At least with the WA22, I got the former. Same results with the LCD-2s.
> 
> That's the thing with "wire with gain", if you don't like what you hear....it will only show you what you have upstream.


 
  
  
 what do u think about GSX vs. Zana Deux with HD 800?


----------



## MacedonianHero

dubstep girl said:


> what do u think about GSX vs. Zana Deux with HD 800?


 
  
 Well, I would say that the HD800's have never sounded better than with the GS-X. The ZD on the other hand....I preferred the WA22 that I had side-by-side with it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

macedonianhero said:


> Well, I would say that the HD800's have never sounded better than with the GS-X. The ZD on the other hand....I preferred the WA22 that I had side-by-side with it.


 
  
 btw i'm not sure what "wire with gain" should sound like. i don't know what to expect
  
 what is the sound of nothing? of absolute neutrality and transparency? i fear it will be bland, lifeless, uncolored, unnatural, or even worse....sterile and clinical/analytical, digital, cold, and insipid. i don't see how the amp can be musical or unbright while being completely neutral, im getting kinda worried, unless the GSX does have some positive colorations of sorts. or if they added some sort of warmth to its sound.


----------



## DarKen23

dubstep girl said:


> macedonianhero said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I would say that the HD800's have never sounded better than with the GS-X. The ZD on the other hand....I preferred the WA22 that I had side-by-side with it.
> ...


The mjolnir is almost completely neutral while being musical with the 800s


----------



## MacedonianHero

dubstep girl said:


> btw i'm not sure what "wire with gain" should sound like. i don't know what to expect
> 
> what is the sound of nothing? of absolute neutrality and transparency? i fear it will be bland, lifeless, uncolored, unnatural, or even worse....sterile and clinical/analytical, digital, cold, and insipid. i don't see how the amp can be musical or unbright while being completely neutral, im getting kinda worried, unless the GSX does have some positive colorations of sorts. or if they added some sort of warmth to its sound.


 
  
 Basically a very transparent amp with very little flavour of it's own. So you'll be able to really hear what your headphone transducers, DAC and source are giving you without adding much of anything to it. Think uber transparency. And as the HD800s are uber-transparent dynamic headphones, just a great match IMO. Great drive, dynamics, authority and very revealing.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

darken23 said:


> The mjolnir is almost completely neutral while being musical with the 800s


 
  
  
 i've heard comments about that combo being bright and lifeless, same thing with bryston. i haven't heard that with the GSX2, i'm hoping it will change that.


----------



## MacedonianHero

dubstep girl said:


> i've heard comments about that combo being bright and lifeless, same thing with bryston. i haven't heard that with the GSX2, i'm hoping it will change that.


 
  
 Solude thought that of the MJ, but definitely not the GS-X MKII. You might want to shoot him a PM.


----------



## BournePerfect

macedonianhero said:


> A good 30 minutes. Here are my notes...lacks the warmth of a tube amp, but also seems to miss the accuracy and quickness of a solid state amp. At least with the WA22, I got the former. Same results with the LCD-2s.
> 
> That's the thing with "wire with gain", if you don't like what you hear....it will only show you what you have upstream.


 
  
 What driver tube were you using? Again-the changes can be pretty night and day-like DG  somewhat elaborated on. Example, with my tungsol black glass roundplate-it was very warm, lacking dynamics, soundstage width, and bass impact, but with very lush, intimate mids. With my NOS Brimar, more transparent, better overall soundstage, better dynamics. My current Sophia absolutely THUMPED in the bass, dynamics overall were very impressive, and a soundstage much better than either of the former. My only complaint was that the bass tended to blled into the lower mids a bit.
  
 Going by my experience with just three cheap tubes...the ZDSE can sound drastically different. I will say that it's incredible speed, transparency, and somewhat forward mids was a common theme with all three tubes. But hey-I only lived with the thing for a year, so...
  
 Oh-and I hope your good 30 minutes was after you had it warm up for about an hour. 
  


dubstep girl said:


> what do u think about GSX vs. Zana Deux with HD 800?


 
  
 Is there anyone around that has lived with both for a good amount of time-that could answer that question? None that I know about...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## MacedonianHero

bourneperfect said:


> What driver tube were you using? Again-the changes can be pretty night and day-like DG  somewhat elaborated on. Example, with my tungsol black glass roundplate-it was very warm, lacking dynamics, soundstage width, and bass impact, but with very lush, intimate mids. With my NOS Brimar, more transparent, better overall soundstage, better dynamics. My current Sophia absolutely THUMPED in the bass, dynamics overall were very impressive, and a soundstage much better than either of the former. My only complaint was that the bass tended to blled into the lower mids a bit.
> 
> Going by my experience with just three cheap tubes...the ZDSE can sound drastically different. I will say that it's incredible speed, transparency, and somewhat forward mids was a common theme with all three tubes. But hey-I only lived with the thing for a year, so...
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll have to go dig up my notes. It was a while ago. But my experiences mirror what Dubstep Girl's been posting.


----------



## BournePerfect

15 minutes. 30 minutes. I can see why there are similarities there. 
  
 Dig up some WA5LE/HD800 notes if you have some-I'm curious. Mine arrives tomorrow!
  
 -Daniel


----------



## MacedonianHero

bourneperfect said:


> 15 minutes. 30 minutes. I can see why there are similarities there.
> 
> Dig up some WA5LE/HD800 notes if you have some-I'm curious. Mine arrives tomorrow!
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Looking forward to your impressions. I think you'll be mightily happy with the WA5LE. Congrats!


----------



## BournePerfect

I'm hoping for a decent amout of tube lushness, or euphony from the Woo, Pete. That way I can justify keeping it once the Leviathan comes-which should be highly transparent and resolving. Looking forward to this weekend that's for sure! I'll be pairing the Woo with the V800 for now. And not to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but, that Woo is drop dead gorgeous imo. Probably the best looking tube amp (in pics) that I've ever seen-along with Moth stuff.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i hope to hear your impressions! 
  
 im thinking of buying one to have a tube amp after my GSX (unless the GSX really really suprises me enough to keep it as a single end-game).
  
 not sure if i'll go for the LE or the regular WA5, or maybe just WA22 and be able to use all the best tubes, which are supposed to come close to WA5 performance. if you still have T1, would really love to hear how the T1 does midbass with WA5. i'm worried it won't sound good cause of the 1400 ohm impedance in the midbass, seems like OTLs are the best solution to that.


----------



## BournePerfect

I have actually been trying to scoop up another T1 on the boards to try with this amp. Curious if it can scale nearly as high as the HD800. Still feeling somewhat burned by my second T1 which absolutely SUCKED-and didn't sound remotely like the first one I loved so much (Frank I's old one). I will definitely be grabbing one soon though...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## wink

Quote:Bourneperfect 





> didn't sound remotely like the* first one I loved so much* (Frank I's old one). I will definitely be grabbing one soon though...


 
 There are such things as *KEEPERS*.....


----------



## Dubstep Girl

if the T1 works well with GSX MK2, i plan on recabling to balanced, but i shall never sell my T1, its my favorite headphone.


----------



## MacedonianHero

dubstep girl said:


> if the T1 works well with GSX MK2, i plan on recabling to balanced, but i shall never sell my T1,* its my favorite headphone.*


 
  
 That might change with the GS-X MK2. I preferred the T1s too, and then the HD800s scaled so very well with the GS-X that I no longer own the T1s.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i would never sell the T1 i think.
  
 the WA2/T1 has really been my favorite setup by far. the HD 800 is coming close after the GEC tubes, i listen to them alot, but the one i could always live with would be the Beyerdynamik T1
  
 i just like how the T1 also sounds like the TH-900, but more linear, that is something i really like, the way the T1 does the bass as well as how the mids are slightly warm and very musical. 
  
 without the WA2 (with tung sol 5998 tubes ONLY) though i would hate T1, without that warmth, its dryer and quite bright at times.


----------



## MacedonianHero

dubstep girl said:


> i would never sell the T1 i think.
> 
> the WA2/T1 has really been my favorite setup by far. the HD 800 is coming close after the GEC tubes, i listen to them alot, but the one i could always live with would be the Beyerdynamik T1


 
  
 Sounds very familiar to my experiences...then a new DAC and GS-X and the T1s were sold.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

macedonianhero said:


> Sounds very familiar to my experiences...then a new DAC and GS-X and the T1s were sold.


 
  
 i hope my Mytek 192 sounds good with GSX, otherwise, i'll be getting a NAD M51


----------



## BournePerfect

wink said:


> There are such things as *KEEPERS*.....


 
  
  
 Well I originally sold it to fund the first of 3 HD800s-all of which sounded identical. I didn't realize there were such QC issues with the T1 though-and I'm pretty convinced I had a dud.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i hope my Mytek 192 sounds good with GSX, otherwise, i'll be getting a NAD M51


 
  
 Or PWD2


----------



## preproman

dubstep girl said:


> if the T1 works well with GSX MK2, i plan on *recabling to balanced*, but i shall never sell my T1, its my favorite headphone.


 
  
  
 That would be the absolute best move you could do for the T1s.  When I had them SE I did not like them at all and was ready to sell them.  Plus you really need to use the full amp of the GS-X mk2 - not half of it..


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i'll have to recable + get balanced to SE for all my headphones


----------



## philo50

dubstep girl said:


> i'll have to recable + get balanced to SE for all my headphones


 
  
 not as difficult as it might seem.....


----------



## preproman

dubstep girl said:


> i'll have to recable + get balanced to SE for all my headphones


 
  
 I did.  I even re cabled the TH900s..  I really didn't need to go balanced on them.  I just did it cause I like the cable.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

preproman said:


> I did.  I even re cabled the TH900s..  I really didn't need to go balanced on them.  I just did it cause I like the cable.


 
  
 where at, and how long did they take.


----------



## preproman

First I got them re cabled with the Zeus cable from Robert @ http://aphroditecu29.com  Did really like that one.  Then I got a Reign 24 cable from Trevor and now to the day I love it.  However, it's kinda risky dealing with Trevor at this point in time.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

preproman said:


> First I got them re cabled with the Zeus cable from Robert @ http://aphroditecu29.com  Did really like that one.  Then I got a Reign 24 cable from Trevor and now to the day I love it.  However,* it's kinda risky dealing with Trevor at this point in time.*


 
  
 yeah i agree. 
  
 if he got his business back together and was able to make them fast, i would definitely choose him.


----------



## nk77

preproman said:


> Or PWD2


 
  
 Lol for the blatant advertisment.
  
 What is running the HD800 at the moment? Ciunas?  Any hints on what is next?


----------



## preproman

nk77 said:


> Lol for the blatant advertisment.
> 
> What is running the HD800 at the moment? Ciunas?  Any hints on what is next?


 
  
 PWD2 and Ciunas still going.  Looking at the NOS1, HEX and the Alpha DAC2


----------



## Dubstep Girl

preproman said:


> PWD2 and Ciunas still going.  Looking at the NOS1, HEX and the Alpha DAC2


 
  
 alpha dac seems interesting. hex looks ugly


----------



## preproman

dubstep girl said:


> alpha dac seems interesting. *hex looks ugly*


 
  
 Not in the inside - where it counts..


----------



## nk77

dubstep girl said:


> alpha dac seems interesting.* hex looks ugly*


 
  
 If going on looks alone the Phasure is....how do say..intriguing.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yes lol


----------



## preproman




----------



## DairyProduce

preproman said:


>


 
  
 ...is that really a dac.


----------



## DarKen23

preproman said:


>



You have got to be kidding me..


----------



## Audio Jester

preproman said:


>



This music was brought to you by the letter H


----------



## nk77

audio jester said:


> This music was brought to you by the letter H


 
  
 This is where we disagree...it is most certainly not a 'H'. Most definitely a capital ' I ' to my ears.


----------



## Audio Jester

agree to disagree? 
I hear they are going to release Roman Numeral One soon.


----------



## nk77

audio jester said:


> agree to disagree?
> I hear they are going to release Roman Numeral One soon.


 
  
 Not at all. You are going to have to come around to my way of thinking.
  
 But on a serious note it had quite a favourable review.
  
 @Preproman - are you limited to the XXHighend Software? Will this be primarily for the HD800?


----------



## DarKen23

nk77 said:


> audio jester said:
> 
> 
> > This music was brought to you by the letter H
> ...



Yes, yes..I can hear it as well, intriguing.


----------



## doublea71

I had a chance to try these today at an audio/video show here in Saigon - Sennheiser had a room stocked with their full line-up except for the Orpheus. I have to say the HD-800 do sound terrific with great separation and a wide/airy soundstage. They are easily the most comfortable pair of headphones I have ever had the pleasure of trying out, too. I don't know if I would feel comfortable springing for these with my budget, but I did really enjoy them. I can see these being great for long listening sessions....they did sound a bit on the bright side of neutral, but it wasn't harsh at all. I'm not sure what kind of amp they had it hooked up to, so it's anybody's guess if they were being driven anywhere near their ideal.


----------



## preproman

nk77 said:


> @Preproman - are you limited to the XXHighend Software? Will this be primarily for the HD800?


 
  
 No your not.  But of course, being the salesperson Peter is.  He's saying to get the best out the DAC his software will work best.


----------



## oldpiglas

The sound are rich, textured. The vocal are living in your ears. It shares your the emotion of the music.


----------



## perrew

But no DSD on the Phasure right?


----------



## preproman

perrew said:


> But no DSD on the Phasure right?


 
  
 Correct.  Who needs DSD anyway?


----------



## LugBug1

I've taken it upon myself to deliver the HD800's a very much deserved award.
  
 This January will be their 5th birthday. So as an early celebration I've decided to label them...
  
*"The Greatest Headphone In The World Now" *
  
 This is all things considered; price/performance. 
  

  
  

  
  
  (I don't care if anyone disagrees with me. The award has been given and that's that. And you can't argue with 'that!')


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lugbug1 said:


> I've taken it upon myself to deliver the HD800's a very much deserved award.
> 
> This January will be their 5th birthday. So as an early celebration I've decided to label them...
> 
> ...


----------



## magiccabbage

Question here, don't know if this has been asked before I have not come across it. Is the thin silvery material beside the driver in the HD800 replaceable? It felt kinda flimsy to me when I tried them on. I could push it in with my finger. It looks like it would be easy to tear. Has anyone had any problems with this before and do Sennheiser offer spare parts for it?


----------



## rawrster

I had no idea the HD800 is almost 5 years old. It's certainly a keeper for me. I was tempted a few times to sell it but I'll keep it as it is now with my Anedio D1 dac/amp and eventually (probably sometime in the next 6 months or so hopefully but I'm lazy so probably a year or more) get it painted at colorware in all black. The HD800 was certainly a game changer when it was released.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

rawrster said:


> I had no idea the HD800 is almost 5 years old. It's certainly a keeper for me. I was tempted a few times to sell it but I'll keep it as it is now with my Anedio D1 dac/amp and eventually (probably sometime in the next 6 months or so hopefully but I'm lazy so probably a year or more) get it painted at colorware in all black.* The HD800 was certainly a game changer when it was released. *


 
 i thought that was the audeze lcd-2 
  
http://www.audeze.com/products/headphones/lcd2
  





  
  
 btw im thinking of recoloring mine in the future as well, maybe rebuy a recolored stratus blue one if i ever buy it, or a pink one if i get the WA5


----------



## DarKen23

I recently sold my dac and amp since I decided to have the DA8 in the house. Went back to the pioneer a/v receiver for the time being, and the pairing is no joke. It turns the HD800 into a power house, full bodied and incredibly clean impact. The sonics is so good that its got me scratching my head..


----------



## kazsud

darken23 said:


> I recently sold my dac and amp since I decided to have the DA8 in the house. Went back to the pioneer a/v receiver for the time being, and the pairing is no joke. It turns the HD800 into a power house, full bodied and incredibly clean impact. The sonics is so good that its got me scratching my head..




What pioneer model is it?


----------



## DarKen23

kazsud said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > I recently sold my dac and amp since I decided to have the DA8 in the house. Went back to the pioneer a/v receiver for the time being, and the pairing is no joke. It turns the HD800 into a power house, full bodied and incredibly clean impact. The sonics is so good that its got me scratching my head..
> ...



Vsx-406


----------



## palmfish

I posted some time ago how well my two Pioneer AVRs do powering my HD800. My first exposure, by accident, was when my friend brought his Violectric stack (V800 and V200) over for me to listen to. Towards the end of the day, I asked him if we could bring them down to my basement and compare them to my home theater receiver (Pioneer Elite SC-25) just for grins. Using my Squeezebox Touch as a "transport" we volume-matched as closely as we could with my RS meter and then started listening.
  
 Now my friend is a professional recording engineer who is much more critical than I am, and he swears that with certain parts of the frequency, he could hear a subtle difference between them. But he admitted that he was shocked by how close they were - so close that he admitted that if he were blindfolded, he didn't know if he could reliably identify one from the other. As for me, they sounded identical to me.
  
 This led me on a quest to find a new receiver for my 2-channel system with a good built-in headphone stage. I believe it was here that I got advice about high output impedance acting as a voltage divider, so over the next couple of weeks, I visited a number of audio stores with my Denon D7000's and Sennheiser HD800's to use their relative output volume as a rough guide to finding an amp with low output impedance.
  
 Long story short, after sampling numerous receiver and integrated amps (Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony, Rotel, NAD, Marantz, Onkyo, etc.), I discovered that only the Pioneer receivers had a low output impedance. I picked up a Pioneer VSX-1122 after these trials and am very impressed with it's headphone output. At low to medium volumes (where I do all of my listening), these Pioneers sound exactly the same as any well designed SS headphone amp I have heard. They are not lush, warm, or wet-sounding by any means. Actually, they really don't have any signature at all - they are remarkable only in that they are completely unremarkable.
  
 I'm certain that they have a basic opamp headphone stage and are probably power-limited with high impedance headphones like the HD800, but this isn't a problem for me as I don't listen at high volumes. I have listened to some high dynamic range recordings with my VSX and so far have not detected any clipping or harshness with transients. Overall, I would say that these Pioneers are easily comparable to basic no-frills headphone amps like the Objective2 or Schiit Magni.


----------



## DarKen23

palmfish said:


> I posted some time ago how well my two Pioneer AVRs do powering my HD800. My first exposure, by accident, was when my friend brought his Violectric stack (V800 and V200) over for me to listen to. Towards the end of the day, I asked him if we could bring them down to my basement and compare them to my home theater receiver (Pioneer Elite SC-25) just for grins. Using my Squeezebox Touch as a "transport" we volume-matched as closely as we could with my RS meter and then started listening.
> 
> Now my friend is a professional recording engineer who is much more critical than I am, and he swears that with certain parts of the frequency, he could hear a subtle difference between them. But he admitted that he was shocked by how close they were - so close that he admitted that if he were blindfolded, he didn't know if he could reliably identify one from the other. As for me, they sounded identical to me.
> 
> ...


It's interesting you mentioned that they don't have a sound signature because that's exactly how I'd describe it. Not warm, not thin, just huge sound with phenomenal dynamics. The receiver has some really bad channel balance so I actually had to turn the "balance" knob more towards the right side to get it even. The few reasons I refuse to settle with the receiver is the lack of airiness and extension in the higher freq. and the lack of inputs like a coaxial input, nonetheless it still is a really amazing match, very enjoyable. As I've mentioned, it turns the HD800 into a power house and provides musicality.


----------



## Sanlitun

So I am the fortunate owner of a net pair of HD800. The dealer knocked $100 off and that was all it took. SN is 24xxx so very new it seems.
  
 Well. These are indeed very different than what I am used to.
  
 They are fresh out of the box and I've only had an hour to listen but I am not sure if it is love at first sight. At first I found the enhanced soundstage to be almost dizzying/disorienting but I think I am becoming used to it now. One thing I feel I am hearing is a little bit of a lack of coherency in the lower mids due to the stretching effect. The upper mids and treble are wildly resolving and clean though. But there seems to be something slightly off with realism and instrument timbre and a heightened awareness I am listening to a recording. Maybe something that one needs to become used to.
  
 Piano seems to sound really good. I have the Chesky CD of Artur Pizzaro Beethoven and this is the best I have heard it. I also have a few DSD and DXD piano recordings and they sound very present, although the bottom resonances are a little thin. These phones seem to favor hi-res very much, I listened to some lower res MP3 files and you can certainly tell the difference in quality and hear the grain.
  
 Going to be very interesting to see where this goes. Certainly something very different from the HE-500. I'm putting on my break in loop and will listen again in the morning.


----------



## palmfish

darken23 said:


> It's interesting you mentioned that they don't have a sound signature because that's exactly how I'd describe it. Not warm, not thin, just huge sound with phenomenal dynamics. The receiver has some really bad channel balance so I actually had to turn the "balance" knob more towards the right side to get it even. The few reasons I refuse to settle with the receiver is the lack of airiness and extension in the higher freq. and the lack of inputs like a coaxial input, nonetheless it still is a really amazing match, very enjoyable. As I've mentioned, it turns the HD800 into a power house and provides musicality.




Theres no lack of "air" or "extension" with mine. On the other hand, "powerhouse" and "huge sound" are not words I would use to describe mine either...lol.

Your channel imbalance is of some concern. Yours is a 15 year-old amp and may not be working properly.


----------



## DarKen23

palmfish said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > It's interesting you mentioned that they don't have a sound signature because that's exactly how I'd describe it. Not warm, not thin, just huge sound with phenomenal dynamics. The receiver has some really bad channel balance so I actually had to turn the "balance" knob more towards the right side to get it even. The few reasons I refuse to settle with the receiver is the lack of airiness and extension in the higher freq. and the lack of inputs like a coaxial input, nonetheless it still is a really amazing match, very enjoyable. As I've mentioned, it turns the HD800 into a power house and provides musicality.
> ...



Lol, youre probably right, like I said--I have the "balance" knob turned more towards the right side. Your vsx is a much newer model I assume? The air and extensions are there but I was comparing to other higher end headphone amps, and in comparison it falls short.


----------



## palmfish

darken23 said:


> Lol, youre probably right, like I said--I have the "balance" knob turned more towards the right side. Your vsx is a much newer model I assume? The air and extensions are there but I was comparing to other higher end headphone amps, and in comparison it falls short.




Yes, mine was a new model last year. It was a store demo model I picked up for $200. It has more analog and digital inputs than I could ever use, built-in DAC and MCACC auto room EQ. I assume the headamp built-in is a simple discrete opamp job.

The mid-90's is a bit tougher. I don't know much about them so Im wondering if your headphone section is discrete or tapped off the main amp. It's got DSP so im thinking discrete opamp for headphone stage on yours too.


----------



## LugBug1

darken23 said:


> Lol, youre probably right, like I said--*I have the "balance" knob turned more towards the right side*. Your vsx is a much newer model I assume? The air and extensions are there but I was comparing to other higher end headphone amps, and in comparison it falls short.


 
 Might just need a quick clean. Open it up and spray some Deoxit on the balance pot. In fact spray all the pots while doing it. As amps get old, oxide forms and pots don't work as good.


----------



## nk77

preproman said:


> No your not.  But of course, being the salesperson Peter is.  He's saying to get the best out the DAC his software will work best.


 
  
 The 6moons review I believe also suggested utilising the software with that particular DAC for best results..


----------



## nk77

darken23 said:


> Lol, youre probably right, like I said--I have the "balance" knob turned more towards the right side. Your vsx is a much newer model I assume? The air and extensions are there but I was comparing to other higher end headphone amps, and in comparison it falls short.


 
  
 Could be a whole slew of issues - might be worth seeing if you can get the 15 year old refurbished...


----------



## DarKen23

lugbug1 said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, youre probably right, like I said--*I have the "balance" knob turned more towards the right side*. Your vsx is a much newer model I assume? The air and extensions are there but I was comparing to other higher end headphone amps, and in comparison it falls short.
> ...


All I've got is WD-40. Here we go


----------



## wink

Better to use methylated spirits. Otherwise the oil in the WD40 could gunk things up.


----------



## DarKen23

nk77 said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, youre probably right, like I said--I have the "balance" knob turned more towards the right side. Your vsx is a much newer model I assume? The air and extensions are there but I was comparing to other higher end headphone amps, and in comparison it falls short.
> ...


Yea I'm sure the receiver has all sorts of other issues. I'm just using it while I wait for my other amp to arrive.


----------



## DarKen23

wink said:


> Better to use methylated spirits. Otherwise the oil in the WD40 could gunk things up.


I was joking..


----------



## wink

QuotearKen23 





> wink said:
> 
> 
> > Better to use methylated spirits. Otherwise the oil in the WD40 could gunk things up.
> ...


 
 I wasn't
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Seriously, The idea is to get rid of all the loose carbon and dust inside the pot, and leave a clean track for the wiper to run on.
  
 You can get a contact cleaner & conditioner that  cleans the track and leaves a film of lubricant behind that doesn't harden or clog with age.


----------



## DarKen23

Ah, gottca. Thank you kindly, I'll try it.


----------



## brunk

darken23 said:


> Ah, gottca. Thank you kindly, I'll try it.


 
  
 It's a coincidence that palmfish also has a VSX series like you do, which is interesting. As for cleaning the receiver, just some canned air might do the trick, but De-Oxit Red followed by Gold would do even better, or the Fader lube that Caig also sells. Try the canned air first 
  
 Gotta say, I'm surprised by those Pioneer headphone outs! Can't wait to get my BH Crack in commission...


----------



## palmfish

brunk said:


> It's a coincidence that palmfish also has a VSX series like you do, which is interesting. As for cleaning the receiver, just some canned air might do the trick, but De-Oxit Red followed by Gold would do even better, or the Fader lube that Caig also sells. Try the canned air first
> 
> Gotta say, I'm surprised by those Pioneer headphone outs! Can't wait to get my BH Crack in commission...




Pioneer has used the "VSX" nomenclature for decades, and still do, so its not really a coincidence.

As for the Pioneer vs. Crack comparison, I would say its a classic tube vs. solid state sound. Next to my Pioneer, my Crack sounds "meatier." I could use terms like musical, lyrical, wetter, lusher, etc. but when I really listen, I think it's mostly just more low frequency emphasis. On most of my recordings, I do enjoy the Crack more, although with some recordings that are already borderline too bassy (Daft Punk for example), it can be too much.

Speedball is on my list...

Oh, remind me sometime to tell you about a conversation I participated in with Dan Schmalle and some other customers at Bottlehead HQ a few weeks ago regarding his thoughts on how his gear compares to Decware.


----------



## songmic

I know it's a bit off-topic, but curiosity got the better of me that I decided to order the legendary - and bizarre-looking - Jecklin Float QA and compete it directly against my HD800. It sounds like an unfair comparison given Float's much higher price tag, but the HD800 will be driven to its best with my maxed-out - P+G pot, SAA umbilical cord, NOS Mullard ECC35, upgraded fuse) ZDSE which cost me $3.5K. The Float and its transformer box, on the other hand, will be connected to the Pathos Classic One MKIII integrated amp ($3-4K). I don't know how well the Float QA scales with higher-end speaker amps, but according to QUAD, the Classic One should have enough power to drive the Float to its fullest volume.
  
 As of now, the HD800 has been the reference headphone for me, winning me over other headphones I've tried including LCD-3, TH900, HE-6 and even SR-009; I personally didn't like the SR-009 that much, at least on the setups I've auditioned it with (WES, BHSE). The HD800 images like no other, throws a massively wide, spacious and airy soundstage around my head, and is perhaps the most detailed headphone I've listened to. The only problem is that it is very amp picky, which is why it took me so long to appreciate its true value. The only headphones I have yet to try that could compete (or possibly destroy) the HD800 are the HP-2, SR-Ω, R10, Abyss, H2+ and Float QA. The first three are discontinued and very hard to find (not to mention expensive), the Abyss is extremely expensive, the H2+ is supposedly very hard to properly tune its sound with the right amp, so the Float QA it was for me. I've read several users' feedback that the Float QA was better than SR-009, so I'm really looking forward to it.
  
 If not even the Float QA has what it takes to dethrone the HD800, the Abyss will come next... but it will be a long time after.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Abyss is a great orthodynamic headphone, so I don't think it will completely destroy the HD800 as DD and Planar have their own (general) pro and cons, even in high end level.
  
 Also, the Abyss really have a different presentation of character to HD800, the only similiarity is their airy and huge soundstage. Some people also prefer The Abyss compare to SR009, I guess their opposite character also taking a part there.


----------



## rawrster

dubstep girl said:


> i thought that was the audeze lcd-2
> 
> http://www.audeze.com/products/headphones/lcd2
> 
> ...


 
  
 LOL 
  
 That reminds me of those places that have a big sign saying worlds best steak, burger etc but never lives up to the hype


----------



## brunk

songmic said:


> Spoiler: Songmic's Incoming Float QA
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I was very, very close to purchasing a Float QA a couple months ago. I am very interested in what you have to say about it. The only I can't stand about it is how awkward it looks lol. Looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## zigy626

Went to this website http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php and tried the Quality test/ Bass Shaker on the HD800's. Apparently in my enthusiasm to test how far I can push I think I over did it to a point where the drivers were rattling. This was on almost on the full volume pot on the amp. Now I am worried I might have caused irreparable harm to my wonderful HD800's. As soon as I heard the loud rattling I pressed the mute switch. How would be another way to find out if my HD800's are working as they should? What can I try any suggestions. I have looked at the drivers closely and they seem to be in fine shape. Even the red coil seems to be in place.


----------



## Takeanidea

Your ears will be the only true test. Trust them.


----------



## LugBug1

zigy626 said:


> Went to this website http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php and tried the Quality test/ Bass Shaker on the HD800's. Apparently in my enthusiasm to test how far I can push I think I over did it to a point where the drivers were rattling. This was on almost on the full volume pot on the amp. Now I am worried I might have caused irreparable harm to my wonderful HD800's. As soon as I heard the loud rattling I pressed the mute switch. How would be another way to find out if my HD800's are working as they should? What can I try any suggestions. I have looked at the drivers closely and they seem to be in fine shape. Even the red coil seems to be in place.


 
  
 I'm sure they'll be fine. Do they sound ok? The drivers were designed to be able to cope with louder music than other headphones without distorting. You've probably given them a good work out.


----------



## zigy626

They sound fine, nothing buzzing or funny sounds (as I listen to some loud music right now). Actually this whole thing prompted me to inspect the drivers closely. And in the process I took off the ear pads which after 5 months of use needed a good wash as it is along with the headband. The whole process was much easier than I thought. After all the cleaning/drying they look brand new . Now starts the task of listening to some music, hopefully as you said they just got a good work out. Thanks for all the replies.


----------



## helljudgement

Not to worry even if your drivers are damaged they will replace it for you foc if it's on warranty. Sent mine in 2 months ago for damage drivers and they had it replaced and sent back to my home within a week.


----------



## LugBug1

helljudgement said:


> Not to worry even if your drivers are damaged they will replace it for you foc if it's on warranty. Sent mine in 2 months ago for damage drivers and they had it replaced and sent back to my home within a week.


 
  
 How did the drivers get damaged? Only I haven't read of any occurrences.


----------



## zigy626

+1


----------



## helljudgement

There seems to be some issues with static when my hd800 is used together with my wa2. When I plug it into my wa2 it produces static on the left driver and over time that causes the damage on my left driver. When I sent it in for repairs they replace both my drivers and send it back all within a week time. But the static still exist even now and this has never occur on my hd600 before when using it with the wa2 and the hd800 didn't produce any static when plug into the amps on their service centre so till today I have yet to find out what causes this problem so I would appreciate if anyone can share their thoughts on this issue.


----------



## brunk

helljudgement said:


> There seems to be some issues with static when my hd800 is used together with my wa2. When I plug it into my wa2 it produces static on the left driver and over time that causes the damage on my left driver. When I sent it in for repairs they replace both my drivers and send it back all within a week time. But the static still exist even now and this has never occur on my hd600 before when using it with the wa2 and the hd800 didn't produce any static when plug into the amps on their service centre so till today I have yet to find out what causes this problem so I would appreciate if anyone can share their thoughts on this issue.


 
  
 Well it certainly sounds like the WA2 is the culprit IMO.


----------



## MelvinV

helljudgement said:


> There seems to be some issues with static when my hd800 is used together with my wa2. When I plug it into my wa2 it produces static on the left driver and over time that causes the damage on my left driver. When I sent it in for repairs they replace both my drivers and send it back all within a week time. But the static still exist even now and this has never occur on my hd600 before when using it with the wa2 and the hd800 didn't produce any static when plug into the amps on their service centre so till today I have yet to find out what causes this problem so I would appreciate if anyone can share their thoughts on this issue.


 
 My cable went bad, and apparently it's too hard for Sennheiser to also check the cable when you send it in for repairs.
 Check it with some other output first I guess, if there is no static there then the cable is the culprit.


----------



## helljudgement

brunk said:


> Well it certainly sounds like the WA2 is the culprit IMO.


I'm reluctant to jump to that conclusion as I've yet to change the cables and from my past experience with other headphones the wa2 has no problem with static. Perhaps I should change cables? Either way there's no cheap solution when it comes to the senns though.


----------



## helljudgement

melvinv said:


> My cable went bad, and apparently it's too hard for Sennheiser to also check the cable when you send it in for repairs.
> Check it with some other output first I guess, if there is no static there then the cable is the culprit.


It's the same case for me when I first send in suspected of cable problem back in June. It seems difficult for them to detect faults on cable. Is yours fixed now?


----------



## BournePerfect

Got a Luxman P1u arriving hopefully this weekend or early next week. I'll be comparing it to the WA5-LE for the most part-along with a ton of ZDSE notes. Also have another Eximus arriving tomorrow to help even out my impressions-seeing as that's the dac I used 90% of the time with the ZDSE.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## longbowbbs

bourneperfect said:


> Got a Luxman P1u arriving hopefully this weekend or early next week. I'll be comparing it to the WA5-LE for the most part-along with a ton of ZDSE notes. Also have another Eximus arriving tomorrow to help even out my impressions-seeing as that's the dac I used 90% of the time with the ZDSE.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Next on Head-Fi Reality TV......


----------



## hmouse

So when will your 2A3x4 join the party? Seems some serious comparison review is on the road, yay~


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wow new amp already?


----------



## BournePerfect

The Leviathan is still roughly 2-3 months out. As lovely as the WA5-LE is-it isn't really doing it for me soundwise. I do have an Eximus (3rd one lol) arriving tomorrow, should be interesting to see how that pairs with the Woo-my v800 has been excellent in the interim. I've honestly wanted this Luxman for a long while-but they rarely come up used. It's possibly the best ss amp one can get for the HD800-and that is my hope that it will work as an end game ss in that regard. The guy I bought it from prefers it with his HD800 more than the GSX, which isn't surprising, really. Supposed to be fantastic synergy there-can't wait to see how it shakes out.
  
 On a somewhat ironic side note-I'm more of a black electronics fan myself-but the Woo, Eximus, and Luxman are all silver and are the best looking components I've owned (judging from P1u pics). Funny that.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## magiccabbage

bourneperfect said:


> The Leviathan is still roughly 2-3 months out. As lovely as the WA5-LE is-it isn't really doing it for me soundwise. I do have an Eximus (3rd one lol) arriving tomorrow, should be interesting to see how that pairs with the Woo-my v800 has been excellent in the interim. I've honestly wanted this Luxman for a long while-but they rarely come up used. It's possibly the best ss amp one can get for the HD800-and that is my hope that it will work as an end game ss in that regard. The guy I bought it from prefers it with his HD800 more than the GSX, which isn't surprising, really. Supposed to be fantastic synergy there-can't wait to see how it shakes out.
> 
> On a somewhat ironic side note-I'm more of a black electronics fan myself-but the Woo, Eximus, and Luxman are all silver and are the best looking components I've owned (judging from P1u pics). Funny that.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 what luxman amp?


----------



## DarKen23

bourneperfect said:


> The Leviathan is still roughly 2-3 months out. As lovely as the WA5-LE is-it isn't really doing it for me soundwise. I do have an Eximus (3rd one lol) arriving tomorrow, should be interesting to see how that pairs with the Woo-my v800 has been excellent in the interim. I've honestly wanted this Luxman for a long while-but they rarely come up used. It's possibly the best ss amp one can get for the HD800-and that is my hope that it will work as an end game ss in that regard. The guy I bought it from prefers it with his HD800 more than the GSX, which isn't surprising, really. Supposed to be fantastic synergy there-can't wait to see how it shakes out.
> 
> On a somewhat ironic side note-I'm more of a black electronics fan myself-but the Woo, Eximus, and Luxman are all silver and are the best looking components I've owned (judging from P1u pics). Funny that.
> 
> -Daniel


The fact that you were able to find a used P1u is rare. The pairing with the HD800 should be excellent. Congrats Dan.


----------



## DarKen23

magiccabbage said:


> bourneperfect said:
> 
> 
> > The Leviathan is still roughly 2-3 months out. As lovely as the WA5-LE is-it isn't really doing it for me soundwise. I do have an Eximus (3rd one lol) arriving tomorrow, should be interesting to see how that pairs with the Woo-my v800 has been excellent in the interim. I've honestly wanted this Luxman for a long while-but they rarely come up used. It's possibly the best ss amp one can get for the HD800-and that is my hope that it will work as an end game ss in that regard. The guy I bought it from prefers it with his HD800 more than the GSX, which isn't surprising, really. Supposed to be fantastic synergy there-can't wait to see how it shakes out.
> ...



Luxman P1u


----------



## MelvinV

helljudgement said:


> It's the same case for me when I first send in suspected of cable problem back in June. It seems difficult for them to detect faults on cable. Is yours fixed now?


 
 I went to my HD 800 dealer and they gave me a new cable. Probably because repairing a cable costs way more money then a new one, probably €150 profit on that €180 cable lol.
 So far everything is perfect again, and I still have the old cable (it probably broke at the Y-split internally) which I may use for DIY some time.


----------



## LugBug1

helljudgement said:


> I'm reluctant to jump to that conclusion as I've yet to change the cables and from my past experience with other headphones the wa2 has no problem with static. Perhaps I should change cables? Either way there's no cheap solution when it comes to the senns though.


 
  
 The Senns are very sensitive and will show the noise floor of certain amps, or the microphonics of tubes. Not saying that the WA2 is to blame, but seems a bit strange that you've had the drivers changed and you are still getting noise. Have you tried different tubes? As I would attribute a static noise as coming from an amp not the headphones. Also, tubes make a static noise when they are either failing or settling in. And some tubes are just noisy! 
 Good luck though my friend, I've been in a similar situation and couldn't pin it down. Noise with the HD800's but not with other headphones.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I just put it down to sensitivity.


----------



## Audio Jester

bourneperfect said:


> The Leviathan is still roughly 2-3 months out. As lovely as the WA5-LE is-it isn't really doing it for me soundwise. *I do have an Eximus (3rd one lol) arriving tomorrow*, should be interesting to see how that pairs with the Woo-my v800 has been excellent in the interim. I've honestly wanted this Luxman for a long while-but they rarely come up used. It's possibly the best ss amp one can get for the HD800-and that is my hope that it will work as an end game ss in that regard. The guy I bought it from prefers it with his HD800 more than the GSX, which isn't surprising, really. Supposed to be fantastic synergy there-can't wait to see how it shakes out.
> 
> On a somewhat ironic side note-I'm more of a black electronics fan myself-but the Woo, Eximus, and Luxman are all silver and are the best looking components I've owned (judging from P1u pics). Funny that.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 Daniel, you have issues.


----------



## PleasantSounds

lugbug1 said:


> The Senns are very sensitive and will show the noise floor of certain amps, or the microphonics of tubes. Not saying that the WA2 is to blame, but seems a bit strange that you've had the drivers changed and you are still getting noise. Have you tried different tubes? As I would attribute a static noise as coming from an amp not the headphones. Also, tubes make a static noise when they are either failing or settling in. And some tubes are just noisy!
> Good luck though my friend, I've been in a similar situation and couldn't pin it down. Noise with the HD800's but not with other headphones..
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I second this opinion. To blow a transducer you have to put too much current through it for long enough for it to overheat and burn through the insulation of the coils. I don't think you could play music loud enough to do that without going deaf. But the other possibility is that you could have DC flowing through it and that's barely audible as all you can hear is the imperfections in current stabilisation. That may happen if you have a faulty capacitor within the amp circuits. 
 I'd get that amp checked. If that's too hard/costly to arrange then at least check the headphone output with a multimeter - that's a $10 investment.


----------



## magiccabbage

when i had stock tubes in my WA2 i could hear some noise but only when the amp was turned up near 2 o'clock. I upgraded the tubes a while back and the noise dropped off completely. I was not expecting this to happen because i thought that high gain tubes would mean slightly more noise but i was wrong to assume that. If i have no music playing and turn the volume up to its fullest there is only the slightest hum. I also bought the T1's so i think maybe they have less noise than what i was using before -HD650.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

My wa2 is completely free of any noise at any volume level

Cant wait for luxman vs wa5 vs ZDSE impressions.


----------



## helljudgement

Forgot to mention the static only occur when the headphone is being plugged into the amp and when I move the jack. The amp itself is dead silent when plugged in even without playing music but it hisses sometimes when I touch the volume control and it becomes louder as the volume goes up but I suspect that has to do with the sensitivity of the 800.


----------



## MelvinV

lugbug1 said:


> The Senns are very sensitive and will show the noise floor of certain amps, or the microphonics of tubes. Not saying that the WA2 is to blame, but seems a bit strange that you've had the drivers changed and you are still getting noise. Have you tried different tubes? As I would attribute a static noise as coming from an amp not the headphones. Also, tubes make a static noise when they are either failing or settling in. And some tubes are just noisy!
> Good luck though my friend, I've been in a similar situation and couldn't pin it down. Noise with the HD800's but not with other headphones..
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well last time I put my HD 800 in my motherboard's audio output there wasn't any noise really. And I assume that the WA2 is better than a "premium" onboard audio solution.


----------



## LugBug1

melvinv said:


> Well last time I put my HD 800 in my motherboard's audio output there wasn't any noise really. And I assume that the WA2 is better than a "premium" onboard audio solution.


 
 Unless there is a powerful enough amplifier within your motherboard I wouldn't expect much noise, same goes with plugging direct into any media player too. I wager it sounded schiit though? 
  
 Yeah as I said with "certain amps" the hd800's will show noise more than other headphones ime. There are a lot of variables that can cause this including impedance matching. I havent heard the WA2 so can't comment. Other than it is a tube amp and some tubes make noises.


----------



## Sanlitun

Does anyone else have wrinkled silver mesh material on their HD800? On my new phones the mesh is not perfect in the area just above where the cables connect and there is a bulge.
  
 I'm wondering if there has been a manufacturing change somewhere along the line with these. The Stereophile review alludes to "machined stainless-steel earpieces" and mine don't seem to contain any metal in the structure other than the head band and some screws.
  
 I'm trying to be as dispassionate as possible with these phones and not jump to any conclusions so soon but so far it's been a struggle to see the upside.


----------



## roskodan

almost all plastic, but it feels good, like warm machined aluminium
  
 read your previous post, soundstage is very speaker like in the center while still retaining the binaural, no crossfeed effect on L & R, not really intimate, very pleasant in a speaker like sensation in the center
  
 there is a sensation of high awareness as music comes to you very effortlessly
  
 timber on my rig is the closest to the real thing i've heard so far, especially with nature sound recordings, so realistic
  
 and yes they are a little on the thin side compared to orthos, like speakers in open space
  
 still i don't know for any sensation of lacking coherence, on the contrary maybe


----------



## DarKen23

sanlitun said:


> Does anyone else have wrinkled silver mesh material on their HD800? On my new phones the mesh is not perfect in the area just above where the cables connect and there is a bulge.
> 
> I'm wondering if there has been a manufacturing change somewhere along the line with these. The Stereophile review alludes to "[COLOR=333333]machined stainless-steel earpieces" and mine don't seem to contain any metal in the structure other than the head band and some screws.[/COLOR]
> 
> I'm trying to be as dispassionate as possible with these phones and not jump to any conclusions so soon but so far it's been a struggle to see the upside.


I have the exact same bulge, it's bothered me beyond imagination. I assume when you press it, it pops back out?
I don't believe that it has anything to alter the sound of the cans. I was worried that this bulge would cause distortion or something, but it doesn't seem like it affected the sound.
What's even more weird is that, the bulge has mysteriously disappeared, it's now perfectly leveled.


----------



## skeptic

I can't speak to any bulges in the mesh - but the material choice is a big positive in this instance.  In addition to having ring drivers, the composite plastic that makes up the frame of the cups is one of the patents that sets hd800's apart.  In the original hd800 thread, John Willet (former Senn rep) used to post about this from time to time and explain the major benefits of this design decision (greatly reduced resonance as opposed to metal or wood).  It is also lighter and helps to account for the awesome comfort of these 'phones.


----------



## magiccabbage

skeptic said:


> I can't speak to any bulges in the mesh - but the material choice is a big positive in this instance.  In addition to having ring drivers, the composite plastic that makes up the frame of the cups is one of the patents that sets hd800's apart.  In the original hd800 thread, John Willet (former Senn rep) used to post about this from time to time and explain the major benefits of this design decision (greatly reduced resonance as opposed to metal or wood).  It is also lighter and helps to account for the awesome comfort of these 'phones.


 
  
 I wanted to ask and maybe you can answer this - The bendy plastic material behind the drivers that looks silver but isn't, do you know if it s replaceable? In pictures it looks like it is made of metal but it's not


----------



## skeptic

No idea sadly.  Going to need a Sennheiser rep to weigh in on that.


----------



## DarKen23

I absolutely love the pairing!


----------



## BournePerfect

darken23 said:


> I absolutely love the pairing!


 
  
 Looks sweet!
  


dubstep girl said:


> My wa2 is completely free of any noise at any volume level
> 
> *Cant wait for luxman vs wa5 vs ZDSE impressions*.


 
  
 Me neither!!! Can't wait for your WA5-LE vs WA2 comparisons. *wink wink*
  
 -Daniel


----------



## DarKen23

bourneperfect said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > I absolutely love the pairing!
> ...


The sound is much sweeter 

What happened. Did Dubstep jump on that?


----------



## BournePerfect

darken23 said:


> The sound is much sweeter
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 She's going to...she just doesn't know it yet. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## audiosampling

zigy626 said:


> Went to this website http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php and tried the Quality test/ Bass Shaker on the HD800's. Apparently in my enthusiasm to test how far I can push I think I over did it to a point where the drivers were rattling. This was on almost on the full volume pot on the amp. Now I am worried I might have caused irreparable harm to my wonderful HD800's. As soon as I heard the loud rattling I pressed the mute switch. How would be another way to find out if my HD800's are working as they should? What can I try any suggestions. I have looked at the drivers closely and they seem to be in fine shape. Even the red coil seems to be in place.


 
  
 This test should be performed with the headphones over your head. In such a condition, your ears will be the first piece of equipment to disrupt 
  
 If you did so, your headphones should be safe.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

still not sure if i'm gonna get WA5LE or WA22.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

dubstep girl said:


> still not sure if i'm gonna get WA5LE or WA22.


 
  

 The third Woo in your collection?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yeah, i'll be selling WA6-SE and WA2 though.
  
 my biggest concern right now is warmth and synergy with the Beyerdynamic T1.


----------



## DarKen23

dubstep girl said:


> still not sure if i'm gonna get WA5LE or WA22.


Well, whichever one you go with, isnt it inevitable that youd also go for the other pick later down the road?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

darken23 said:


> Well, whichever one you go with, isnt it inevitable that youd also go for the other pick later down the road?


 
  
 i don't think i will. maybe a WA5, but i think i'd get a stratus or something else instead.


----------



## DarKen23

dubstep girl said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, whichever one you go with, isnt it inevitable that youd also go for the other pick later down the road?
> ...


In that case, given that you actually like to tube roll. Id say the WA5LE sound be fun.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

another amp i'm thinking about in the future is the $5.5k Allnic HPA 5000.


----------



## DarKen23

dubstep girl said:


> another amp i'm thinking about in the future is the $5.5k Allnic HPA 5000.


Ouch..


----------



## DarKen23

The silence stirs many questions.....


----------



## sp3llv3xit

dubstep girl said:


> yeah, i'll be selling WA6-SE and WA2 though.
> 
> my biggest concern right now is warmth and synergy with the Beyerdynamic T1.


 
  

 What can the WA5-LE give that the WA6-SE and the WA2 couldn't?  And is it that much of an upgrade from your existing amps?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sp3llv3xit said:


> What can the WA5-LE give that the WA6-SE and the WA2 couldn't?  And is it that much of an upgrade from your existing amps?


 
  
  
 same thing i question about the WA22.
  
 the WA2 with T1 is still my favorite and go-to reference system. i feel the WA6-SE still can be a little lacking in some aspects like tonality, smoothness, black background, etc. the WA2 could use a bit more detail and separation, maybe a little more transparency on both amps.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> same thing i question about the WA22.
> 
> the WA2 with T1 is still my favorite and go-to reference system. i feel the WA6-SE still can be a little lacking in some aspects like tonality, smoothness, black background, etc. the WA2 could use a bit more detail and separation, maybe a little more transparency on both amps.


 
  
 I think the WA5 could surprise you, cant wait to hear your impressions of the GSX MK2.


----------



## LugBug1

darken23 said:


> I have the exact same bulge, it's bothered me beyond imagination. I assume when you press it, it pops back out?


 






 
  
  
(sorry had to do it)


----------



## DarKen23

lugbug1 said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > I have the exact same bulge, it's bothered me beyond imagination. I assume when you press it, it pops back out?
> ...



 

No problem, it was just beggin for something of that.


----------



## LugBug1

I've just spent the last week listening to nothing but my K701's. 
  
 Now listening to my HD800's. 
  
 It really makes you appreciate how good the Senn's are when you have a break from them for while. 
  
 Does anyone else listen to a lesser headphone for a while in order to really appreciate a better one? 
  
No? Didn't think so. I'm a freak ha


----------



## Eee Pee

I do that all the time. Good to mix it up as the rest of my life is one big routine. 


I believe I've read the silver mesh is a very fine metal screen material. You'll notice it changes color from your finger oils. You can also push on it and distort it. But you can also go from the inside and smooth it back out. I've done it a few times.


----------



## roskodan

when away from home a couple of weeks to a couple of months, usually with my shure se530 and sony mdr-1r, coming back to my home rig is a very special moment every time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 however listening to a "lesser" can make me appreciate the lesser can too
  
 cos i enjoy the specificity of every good or enjoyable can, cos sometimes in presence of a "better" can i forget the "lesser" can be equally enjoyable in some aspects
  
 before i got the hd800 i was very curious about the k701, now i'm even more, especially on my rig
  
 is there something that makes you want to listen to the k701 other than just the comeback to hd800 wow awe effect?


----------



## DarKen23

eee pee said:


> I do that all the time. Good to mix it up as the rest of my life is one big routine.
> 
> 
> I believe I've read the silver mesh is a very fine metal screen material. You'll notice it changes color from your finger oils. You can also push on it and distort it. But you can also go from the inside and smooth it back out. I've done it a few times.



I confuse.


----------



## Eee Pee

I was replying to the post above mine.  I mix up my headphone choices.  A week with the HD 600s, then maybe the HD 800s, then maybe the HD 595, then maybe the HD 700s.
  
 Or the other part?  They were talking about the metal mesh having a bulge.  It can be smoothed over so it's not bulging.


----------



## DarKen23

eee pee said:


> I was replying to the post above mine.  I mix up my headphone choices.  A week with the HD 600s, then maybe the HD 800s, then maybe the HD 595, then maybe the HD 700s.
> 
> Or the other part?  They were talking about the metal mesh having a bulge.  It can be smoothed over so it's not bulging.


Ah, got it. It was about the mix up choices in hp.


----------



## LugBug1

eee pee said:


> I do that all the time. Good to mix it up as the rest of my life is one big routine.


 
 Agreed  
  


roskodan said:


> is there something that makes you want to listen to the k701 other than just the comeback to hd800 wow awe effect?


 
 I've always enjoyed the AKG's. 
  
 I'll put it into a nutshell..
  
 They are a very good headphone if you have a good source and very powerful amp, as they are one of the most hard to please hp's out there. Also, they do have one inherent problem. Look at any freq chart and they have one of the flattest lines going. This is not good, because our ears don't appreciate certain frequencies- flat or not. The major problem is at the 3-4khz range. Most headphones dip at this range. To anyone who owns these or who has dismissed them after a short period please take heed. A simple equalizing can turn them into a very good hp (especially at the price now- I paid approx $150 for my latest pair)
  
 But you must remove the annoying peak at 4k otherwise they have a tendency to sound plasticky in the upper midrange. Vocals sound unnatural, brass hurts.. Electric guitar sounds really bad.
  
 I use 5 notches (yup that much) down on both 3.5 and 5 khz on foobar equalizer. 
  
 If you already own the HD800's you may well be disappointed with the K's. And so you should!! The Senn's are a better hp in every area. And in my opinion the price reflects this realistically. 
  
 However, I like what the K's do. They offer a drier sound and bigger soundstage (the original ones) that is very good for piano and chamber music. Also great for ambient/electronic with a little extra bass added. 
  
 But as always horses for courses


----------



## Arcamera

#21302 checking in!
  
 Purchased the HD800 today. Using a Woo WA3 amp. Loving it so far!
  
 Some of my fears were unfounded: the sound I'm getting is full in the bass, and not too sharp in the highs, so far at least. A very refined sound. More rich/less analytic than I was expecting.
  
 By the way, as I listen to mostly orchestral/classical, my trusty back-up when my main cans are not around is the AKG K701, through the powerful Burson HA160 amp.
  
 Also, can anyone recommend how to get the frequency graph on Sennheiser's website? I couldn't find where on the site it was located. Thanks.


----------



## Jd007

arcamera said:


> #21302 checking in!
> 
> Purchased the HD800 today. Using a Woo WA3 amp. Loving it so far!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow that is very close to my S/N, congrats!! Also you can get the FR graph by just registering your headphones on the Sennheiser's website (the graph request is part of the product registration process).


----------



## Arcamera

Thanks!


----------



## Stoids

Just pulled the trigger on my new rig. Been researching for about two-three months and today was the day I decided to settle down and start listening to music.

Picked up a WA6-SE used. Got it arriving this week along with a new Bifrost and HD800s. Upgrading from O2/ODAC and HD600s. The wait is going to test me...


----------



## BournePerfect

Should be a big improvement all around. Congrats.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

)#($)#($)(#&)$(%%#&)(!!!

Cell phone pic won't upload...

Darken-show 'em my new toys, por favor...

-Daniel


----------



## DarKen23

wusup


----------



## Bolardito

bourneperfect said:


> )#($)#($)(#&)$(%%#&)(!!!
> 
> Cell phone pic won't upload...
> 
> ...


 
 First impressions...? Your assesment of it vs. the BHA-1 would be much appreciated


----------



## BournePerfect

I don't often post pics
 But when I do...
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 I use a crappy cell phone and bad angles.
  
  
  
  
  
 Impressions coming....in time. 
  
 Thanks Ken!
  
  
 -Daniel


----------



## DarKen23

Np


----------



## LugBug1

bourneperfect said:


> Impressions coming....in time.
> 
> Thanks Ken!
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats Daniel, looking smart!


----------



## BournePerfect

Very brief (<1 hr) listening impressions of the Luxman/HD800/DP-1: Very nice sounding...best ss I've heard with the HD800, although it's transparency is lacking slightly behind the Woo and way behind the ZDSE. The tonality is excellent-even better than the Woo, although they are both very good in that regard. They both have a little more 'meat on the bone' than the ZDSE, which seems to work better with some genres but not others. Bass is pretty good, similar to the Woo in that it's rounded a bit, but slightly better impact. ZDSE (with right tube) trounces them both in this regard.Treble is excellent-better than both the tube amps-either that or it's just rolling off the oft piercing highs of the Senns.
  
 I wouldn't really call it warm or dark...but more kinda lacking some transparency if that makes sense. Guess it's the 'color' people refer to with this amp. I feel the Woo is a little more neutral-it can still be sharp in the highs-the Luxman...never does, yet.
  
 Bah...more listening to do...strings and bass guitar on this thing are outstanding. Soundstaging still isn't on the level of the ZDSE, but I kind of expected that. Dynamics are good, better than the Woo (partly due to lower noise floor), but still not up to ZDSE levels. I'd say it's on par with the Bryson for dynamics, but not transparency...but much better tonality and about the same detail...more to come.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

bourneperfect said:


> Very brief (<1 hr) listening impressions of the Luxman/HD800/DP-1: Very nice sounding...best ss I've heard with the HD800, although it's transparency is lacking slightly behind the Woo and way behind the ZDSE. The tonality is excellent-even better than the Woo, although they are both very good in that regard. They both have a little more 'meat on the bone' than the ZDSE, which seems to work better with some genres but not others. Bass is pretty good, similar to the Woo in that it's rounded a bit, but slightly better impact. ZDSE (with right tube) trounces them both in this regard.Treble is excellent-better than both the tube amps-either that or it's just rolling off the oft piercing highs of the Senns.
> 
> I wouldn't really call it warm or dark...but more kinda lacking some transparency if that makes sense. Guess it's the 'color' people refer to with this amp. I feel the Woo is a little more neutral-it can still be sharp in the highs-the Luxman...never does, yet.
> 
> ...


 
  
 great impressions, seems kinda like what i was expecting from what other people have said.
  
 i love the woo audio bass. rounded and good impact. very musical. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 the fact that you said WA5 kinda sharp in the highs kinda bothers me, maybe its better for me to stick with WA2 and WA22, for the warmth and smoothness. i never find them bright, even with the worst recordings. the GSX does pretty good with this as well, though its more unforgiving. (also partly cause of my mytek, its extremely true to the recording and doesn't cover up anything in the treble, works well with warm amps cause of this).


----------



## BournePerfect

One thing with the Woo is that everything sounds...big. Not the soundstage really, but instruments, vocals...makes the soundstage seem somewhat lacking in depth because of this. I don't know how to explain it...I keep picturing the vocalist's face as a miniature blimp floating over the stage. Gosh that sounds lame but I can't think of how else to explain it. Like a giant helium balloon that is floating halfway to the ceiling because it's losing it's gaseous(?) properties (lacking depth as it deflates). Weird, I know, but there you have it.
  
 The Luxman OTOH, has a more 'proper' presentation if you will-better depth and tonality than the Woo. The Woo peeled 1 more layer away from the music than the Lux, whereas the ZDSE peels like 5 layers away. Maybe that's just what a good OTL can do, idk.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

that might be the 300B sound people talk about, maybe thats why people say, either you like it or you don't.
  
 and i love OTL sound, though the zana seems to sound quite different depending on tubes. i loved it with sophia 6sl7, did not like with the sylvania tube, was way too fast sounding for me. 
  
 with the headamp gsx mk2, there are no layers, only music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, its amazing what transparency is, everything in nothingness, the sound of nothingness, its like ego death, trippy and you just kinda have to experience it for yourself


----------



## BournePerfect

I would still hope there are 'layers' within the music however-which is a good strength of tube amps imo-at least the ZDSE anyway. That said-I'm gonna put my deposit down on a GSX soon-hoping for it as my end game ss like I'me hoping the Levi will prove to be my end game tube amp.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

its as good as people say.


----------



## BournePerfect

'cept everyone just says "it's good-it's great"-never really much impressions. Just throw out the 'wire with a gain, it's sounds precisely like your source' throwup repeated 1000 times. So DG-what's your source sound like? 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

a little light on the bass, but perhaps true to the recording, nothing ever sounds boosted, nothing ever sounds anemic, its just how the recording is. the bass comes out when u least expect it. extension is the best i've heard. u hear all the bass details, textures, nuances, with every headphone. 
  
 the midrange is just slightly laidback, but not recessed, i would say, relaxed, mellowed, but it doesn't lose any speed, dynamics, clarity, or forwardness.
  
 the decay is perfect, very natural, not SS and digital, but not colored either, and music just is so transparent, the music is very ethereal sounding at times, the way it just plays through, its really interesting. theres no grain, no hardness, anywhere to be found, the background is certainly very black, this is a dynamic amp, but it doesn't sound dynamic, it doesn't sound forced or aggressive in any way, its the perfect balance of being relaxed and dynamic at the same time, it finds that magic middle.
  
 the treble is just enough to extract all the details. but not be fatiguing, with HD 800, it seems to sometimes border on that level, like u feel like its bright and its gonna fatigue, but in the end it doesn't, its quite like the hd 800s sound. other headphones don't seem to be bright. not warm either, theres no roll off, my DAC seems to have a little brightness at times, but its not artificial or digital, just very revealing and doesn't hold anything back in the treble, if your recording has treble it will be there, but it will only be what the recording has, it won't be unnatural sounding or adding any brightness to fake detail.
  
 the details really are there and its the amps incredible resolution, not treble colorations like some SS amps give.
  
 this is what i hear, and comes close to what people say the Mytek 192 sounds like as well.


----------



## BournePerfect

Nice impressions, thanks. I like the comment about the ss treble colorations. Sounds like my Luxman where I keep getting ready to wince at the treble peak...but it doesn't come. I was just telling Ken how I wish the Bryston and the Lux had a baby-it'd be perfect for an ss imo. I'll see if the GSX can straddle that like at all...not the colorations really, but the soundstaging, dynamics, and transparency without stridency with the HD800. Wish I still had my 'dead nuts neutral' Master 8 to pair with my Eximus/HD800-in fact I REALLY wish someone could compare the M8 and and the GSX sometime...that M8 is a wire with a gain if I've ever heard one-but without the shrill, brittleness of the Dynalo I used to own...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

bourneperfect said:


> Nice impressions, thanks. I like the comment about the ss treble colorations. Sounds like my Luxman where I keep getting ready to wince at the treble peak...but it doesn't come. I was just telling Ken how I wish the Bryston and the Lux had a baby-it'd be perfect for an ss imo. I'll see if the GSX can straddle that like at all...not the colorations really, but the soundstaging, dynamics, and transparency without stridency with the HD800. Wish I still had my 'dead nuts neutral' Master 8 to pair with my Eximus/HD800-in fact I REALLY wish someone could compare the M8 and and the GSX sometime...that M8 is a wire with a gain if I've ever heard one-but without the shrill, brittleness of the Dynalo I used to own...
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 it does!#!@#@#@!#
  
 its as good as i've ever heard. i can't believe the HD 800s sounded as good as they did.


----------



## BournePerfect

Sounds like it'll make a decent bedside rig for me. Any comments regarding the soundstage? Depth, size, precision? This is where ss can rarely match a good tube amp ime...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## DarKen23

dubstep girl said:


> bourneperfect said:
> 
> 
> > Nice impressions, thanks. I like the comment about the ss treble colorations. Sounds like my Luxman where I keep getting ready to wince at the treble peak...but it doesn't come. I was just telling Ken how I wish the Bryston and the Lux had a baby-it'd be perfect for an ss imo. I'll see if the GSX can straddle that like at all...not the colorations really, but the soundstaging, dynamics, and transparency without stridency with the HD800. Wish I still had my 'dead nuts neutral' Master 8 to pair with my Eximus/HD800-in fact I REALLY wish someone could compare the M8 and and the GSX sometime...that M8 is a wire with a gain if I've ever heard one-but without the shrill, brittleness of the Dynalo I used to own...
> ...


Hmm, I can't say anything about the pairing as ive never heard the gsx but I've always felt like headamps really fall short in terms of sound stage. Maybe someone else can also chime in?


----------



## BournePerfect

Ima go out on a limb and say it depends on the source. *sigh*
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Jd007

dubstep girl said:


> it does!#!@#@#@!#
> 
> its as good as i've ever heard. i can't believe the HD 800s sounded as good as they did.


 
  
 hey DG: nice impressions im getting more excited lol. are your hd800s running in SE or balanced? also which gain setting did you use on the gsx and how much volume pot headroom you have?
  
 something that i dont quite understand is how unity gain works. if there is 0 gain, isn't it just a signal pass through? if so isnt it better to just hook up your headphones directly to your dac (with a rca to 1/4" adapter or something). maybe somebody can explain it to me what the point of unity gain is?
  
 edit: also did you say the bass of the hd800 on the gsx is the best you've ever heard? how does it compare to the wa2, both in quantity and quality?


----------



## wink

The voltage from a preamp is say, 1 volt, and it can deliver it into say, 1 thousand ohms without distorting the signal or reducing the level to a lesser value.
 The voltage from an amp is the same voltage, but it c an deliver it into say, 4 ohms without distorting the signal or reducing it to a lesser level.
  
 The issue here is the current supply capability of the preamp and amp.
  
 The signal from the preamp is usually enough to drive an amplifier or a headphone which doesn't take much current to run.
 The signal from an amplifier usually has more current capability so it can drive a greater current load such as a current hungry headphone or a speaker.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

bourneperfect said:


> Sounds like it'll make a decent bedside rig for me. Any comments regarding the soundstage? Depth, size, precision? This is where ss can rarely match a good tube amp ime...
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 well umm i think its fairly wide, this is something that i find hard to measure sometimes, i know when its narrow or lacking depth, but find it harder to judge when its more open. 
  
 i don't think you'll be disappointed. one thing for sure, imaging is extremely good, probably the best i've heard, everything is so precise, where it needs to be. i know also theres alot of spatial cues and nuances in the music i haven't heard with HD 800 yet, so its still new to me. i think i like it more than WA2 in this regard though. much better. and compared to zana, not sure, but just as good if not much better.
  
 all my jazz recordings sound amazing. i've never heard such clarity in the recordings, the space is really well reproduced and i can really finally hear everything with the hd 800, so if this is the soundstage, i think its amazing.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jd007 said:


> hey DG: nice impressions im getting more excited lol. are your hd800s running in SE or balanced? also which gain setting did you use on the gsx and how much volume pot headroom you have?
> 
> something that i dont quite understand is how unity gain works. if there is 0 gain, isn't it just a signal pass through? if so isnt it better to just hook up your headphones directly to your dac (with a rca to 1/4" adapter or something). maybe somebody can explain it to me what the point of unity gain is?
> 
> edit: also did you say the bass of the hd800 on the gsx is the best you've ever heard? how does it compare to the wa2, both in quantity and quality?


 
  
  i am using balanced input, but SE cables for everything but the HE-6, so you can say HE-6 is balanced, everything else is SE.
  
 i use high gain for basically everything except the TH-900, i have enough space to always adjust the volume, if i don't, i'll go to medium, but i haven't really had a problem yet. i'm guessing that if i was balanced, i'd be using medium instead of high gain on everything. 
  
 and everything can go to speaker like volumes with the headphones away from your ears, without any distortion whatsoever, you have as much headroom as you want. and this includes LCD-3 and HE-500, unbalanced, i can only imagine how much headroom u must have balanced. 
  
 the HE-6 is the exception, its just enough to be considered "well powered and fully driven", it gets as loud as you want, but i think its still 2-3 dB short of perfection, i feel comfortably having a tad bit more headroom, u can get loud enough though.
  
 slightly less quantity than WA2, the bass is somewhat light at times, but its really not. the bass is neutral and never lacking. and all the good qualities of bass, extension, clarity texture, etc, is the best i've ever heard. the quality is simply UNPARALLELED BY ANYTHING IVE HEARD. and its like this on every single headphone.
  
 the HD 800 have very very good bass, it comes out on the recordings when it needs it, it lays back when it needs to. depends on the recording. one thing is if you like bass boost, this amp doesn't have that, the WA2 has a bit more of a rounded fuller bass thats slightly boosted, especially with 5998 tubes, the GSX doesn't have this. the bass is the best quality on the GSX though, u hear EVERYTHING, every nuance texture and detail in the bass, its so full of soul and emotion, it really adds alot to the music. i really like it. so lifelike and accurate, its perfect!!!!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

listening to HD 800 right now, i think i can live with this, no fatigue, and the detail is amazing.
  
 every recording seems to have alot more detail and resolution, its kinda like when i heard the STAX its all HOLY ****!@#!@# like What i didn't know music could sound this detailed.
  
 the stax are still better, but the HD 800 are hardly less impressive, and i can see why macedonianhero still has the HD 800 around. 
  
 i'm listening at a good level and all my electronic, pop, rock, and poor and good recordings, and everything sounds amazing and i never feel brightness or fatigue, despite the fact that it sounds like i might, it sounds bright and clear like it should hurt, but it doesn't, its just like the treble spike is just smoothened down enough to not hurt. thats the way i see it, its borderline.


----------



## Jd007

dubstep girl said:


> the HD 800 have very very good bass, it comes out on the recordings when it needs it, it lays back when it needs to. depends on the recording. one thing is if you like bass boost, this amp doesn't have that, the WA2 has a bit more of a rounded fuller bass thats slightly boosted, especially with 5998 tubes, the GSX doesn't have this. the bass is the best quality on the GSX though, u hear EVERYTHING, every nuance texture and detail in the bass, its so full of soul and emotion, it really adds alot to the music. i really like it. so lifelike and accurate, its perfect!!!!


 
 maybe the hd800 will scale even more when you go fully balanced? i just ordered a 4-pin xlr cables for my hd800s, hopefully it'll be worth it. when are you gonna re-cable the rest of your headphones into balanced? it'll be for both the gs-x and the wa22 if you plan to get it later


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jd007 said:


> maybe the hd800 will scale even more when you go fully balanced? i just ordered a 4-pin xlr cables for my hd800s, hopefully it'll be worth it. when are you gonna re-cable the rest of your headphones into balanced? it'll be for both the gs-x and the wa22 if you plan to get it later


 
  
  
 yes i hope so, either way, i'm not feeling like i'm missing anything right now. 
  
 so i can wait a few weeks for my wallet to recover before i go balanced. maybe by then Trevor (norse audio), will be able to make cables again.
  
 if not, i'll probably just get moon audio or something, since they ship fast and seem to have nice cables, maybe i can get the older version of their cables too, which i really like. 
  
 im still planning on buying WA22, but i think T1 will still pair better with WA2, so still undecided on this. i know im very happy with HD 800 and T1 on the WA2, hopefully, the WA22 is slightly better.


----------



## Jd007

So the gsx is for sure to stay then? It's lived up to its expectation as the end game solid state amp I assume, judging from your impressions lol. So now the hunt is on for an end game tube?

One of each does sound amazing. Personally I will probably just stick with the gsx and be done with tubes, for the sale of both convenience and my wallet


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jd007 said:


> So the gsx is for sure to stay then? It's lived up to its expectation as the end game solid state amp I assume, judging from your impressions lol. So now the hunt is on for an end game tube?
> 
> One of each does sound amazing. Personally I will probably just stick with the gsx and be done with tubes, for the sale of both convenience and my wallet


 
  
  
 yes!!!!!!
  
 now endgame tube, though i could certainly live with the WA2 and be very happy. for now gonna try out WA22, which i think i will enjoy. i don't expect transparency nor detail like the GSX MK2, this is certainly the reference now, but i want a tube for musicality fullness and warmth. so yes it has to be colored, thats why i want a woo amp. i don't want a bright and more neutral sounding tube amp. seems like the Stratus plays right on the borderline of this, maybe tube rolling might change this, but i notice i can do this on the woos as well. and i have all the tubes for WA22 pretty much.


----------



## Pudu

bourneperfect said:


> I don't often post pics ... But when I do...I use a crappy cell phone and bad angles...
> -Daniel




Nice haul!

Double gratz.


----------



## DarKen23

dubstep girl said:


> jd007 said:
> 
> 
> > hey DG: nice impressions im getting more excited lol. are your hd800s running in SE or balanced? also which gain setting did you use on the gsx and how much volume pot headroom you have?
> ...


DG, have you heard other amps from headamp? Would you say amps from headamp tend to swing the same way in terms of sonic character?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

darken23 said:


> DG, have you heard other amps from headamp? Would you say amps from headamp tend to swing the same way in terms of sonic character?


 
  
  
 nope unfortunately i haven't.


----------



## longbowbbs

Daniel, you are going to end up with the ZDSE/DP-1 combo all over again....Not so bad (Right!, just getting by. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)  Maybe throw in the HeadAmp just for variety.


----------



## preproman

darken23 said:


> DG, have you heard other amps from headamp? Would you say amps from headamp tend to swing the same way in terms of sonic character?


 
  
 What other headamps are you talking about - GS-1??  The GS-X mk2 would be slightly different.  Balanced and a better power supply than the others.  I surely have different results from the GS-X mk2 when compared to the GS-1..


----------



## perrew

preproman said:


> What other headamps are you talking about - GS-1??  The GS-X mk2 would be slightly different.  Balanced and a better power supply than the others.  I surely have different results from the GS-X mk2 when compared to the GS-1..




Could you please elaborate on the diiferences between the GS-1 and the GS-X with the HD800s? Tks P


----------



## preproman

The GS-1 is a really good amp.  Not many can beat it in direct comparisons.  However, back then I went to a balanced config.  The first that took the place of the GS-1 was the 4 channel Beta 22.  I had better control and a better bass response.  The treble on the Beta was rolled compared to the GS-1.  But everything else I liked better on the Beta.  Then came the GS-X mk2.  It kicked the Beta out the door.  Well extended treble as I experienced with the GS-1 but also had all the good things the Beta had plus better imaging and soundstage.  
  
 If you want to stay in a SE config.  The GS-1 with upgraded modules would be a great choice.


----------



## perrew

@preproman, thank you very much for your impressions!
Im not a great believer in the balanced design being necessary for driving headphones but I do got the upgraded modules coming for my GS-1
Although the GS-XMk2 is said to have improved PSU so that might also do something though Im slightly doubtful of it being necessary for the HD800s


----------



## Jd007

dubstep girl said:


> i use high gain for basically everything except the TH-900, i have enough space to always adjust the volume, if i don't, i'll go to medium, but i haven't really had a problem yet. i'm guessing that if i was balanced, i'd be using medium instead of high gain on everything.
> 
> and everything can go to speaker like volumes with the headphones away from your ears, without any distortion whatsoever, you have as much headroom as you want. and this includes LCD-3 and HE-500, unbalanced, i can only imagine how much headroom u must have balanced.


 
 forgot to ask: where does the volume knob sit then, at high gain, normal listening volume, for the hd800 and he500? 10'o clock?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

unbalanced, probably a little less, 9 or 10, haven't paid much attention.
  
 it has quite alot of headroom though obviously. 
  
 it drives all headphones no problem and gets loud not too quickly and not too late. 
  
 with balanced, you would have double the power.


----------



## Jd007

dubstep girl said:


> unbalanced, probably a little less, 9 or 10, haven't paid much attention.
> 
> it has quite alot of headroom though obviously.
> 
> ...


 
  
 thanks for letting me know! is this with the default xlr output vol on the mytek (which is a bit higher than normal i think)? or did you use volume trim or the gain pad jumpers?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jd007 said:


> thanks for letting me know! is this with the default xlr output vol on the mytek (which is a bit higher than normal i think)? or did you use volume trim or the gain pad jumpers?


 
  
 i used the jumper. i do not use volume trim, sounds like it would decrease sound quality, i use the bypass on the pre-amp as well, to have a clean signal.
  
 without the jumper, seems to get louder, but also i think it might be too much voltage and might mess with the distortion or amplification, i'll keep it with the jumpers to have a normal XLR voltage level.


----------



## preproman

perrew said:


> @preproman, thank you very much for your impressions!
> Im not a great believer in the balanced design being necessary for driving headphones but I do got the upgraded modules coming for my GS-1
> Although the GS-XMk2 is said to have improved PSU so that might also do something though Im slightly doubtful of it being necessary for the HD800s


 
  
 Well, you won't know until you give it a try..


----------



## BournePerfect

pudu said:


> Nice haul!
> 
> Double gratz.


 
  
 Thanks! And to think I actually prefer black gear...lol.
  


longbowbbs said:


> Daniel, you are going to end up with the ZDSE/DP-1 combo all over again....Not so bad (Right!, just getting by.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I know...I'm getting that vibe more and more lol. If the Levi is excruciatingly transparent (it's supposed to be)-I think I may just hit up another ZDSE and use it as a pre. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## kazsud

dubstep girl said:


> a little light on the bass, but perhaps true to the recording, nothing ever sounds boosted, nothing ever sounds anemic, its just how the recording is. the bass comes out when u least expect it. extension is the best i've heard. u hear all the bass details, textures, nuances, with every headphone.
> 
> the midrange is just slightly laidback, but not recessed, i would say, relaxed, mellowed, but it doesn't lose any speed, dynamics, clarity, or forwardness.
> 
> ...




Do you have the audiophile or studio mytek 192?


----------



## Arcamera

Hi All, can anyone recommend some good warm/euphonic power and driver tubes for the WA3? I'm listening through the HD800, and hope to soften/smooth the sound a bit. I've only ever done one tube change from the stock RCA power tube-- to a Sylvania 7236. I liked the Sylvania with my T1's-- great dynamics, soundstage, detail, but it seems a bit much with the HD800's. I went back to the RCA and it's easier to listen to. Just wondering if there are some better alternatives (again, I'm pretty much a newbie with tube rolling). All thoughts appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## YoengJyh

Anyone here try the EarMax Silver Edition OTL tube amp with HD800? Would like to know how u feel.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

arcamera said:


> Hi All, can anyone recommend some good warm/euphonic power and driver tubes for the WA3? I'm listening through the HD800, and hope to soften/smooth the sound a bit. I've only ever done one tube change from the stock RCA power tube-- to a Sylvania 7236. I liked the Sylvania with my T1's-- great dynamics, soundstage, detail, but it seems a bit much with the HD800's. I went back to the RCA and it's easier to listen to. Just wondering if there are some better alternatives (again, I'm pretty much a newbie with tube rolling). All thoughts appreciated. Thanks.


 
  
 Tung Sol 5998, or my favorite, the GEC 6AS7G, best tube for the HD 800 but kinda expensive.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

kazsud said:


> Do you have the audiophile or studio mytek 192?


 
  
 if you mean the pre-amp or the mastering version, i have the pre-amp version.
  
 they're the same, except one has pre-amp output, and one has some SDIF DSD inputs or something


----------



## Maxvla

Glad you are enjoying the GS-X/HD800 combination, DG. Greatly anticipating my GS-X's arrival, so I can hear it again, this time for good.


----------



## Arcamera

dubstep girl said:


> Tung Sol 5998, or my favorite, the GEC 6AS7G, best tube for the HD 800 but kinda expensive.


 
  
 Thanks! Is 'GEC' an abbreviation for General Electric? Also, any trusted tube seller recommendations?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

arcamera said:


> Thanks! Is 'GEC' an abbreviation for General Electric? Also, any trusted tube seller recommendations?


 
  
 i think it is.
  
 but it is NOT the same as the general electric tubes (orange boxes) that where made in the united states. its a british company and its a european tube with a completely different sound. 
 not sure many sellers would carry GEC tubes, especially those, they are rare.


----------



## Golfnutz

Maybe this will help


----------



## magiccabbage

golfnutz said:


> Maybe this will help


 
  
 how much?


----------



## Pudu

bourneperfect said:


> ... And to think I actually prefer black gear...lol. ...
> 
> -Daniel




I hear that. After seeing your all-black ZD I decided that was the one for me as well. 

 (Though I prefer my silver Woo to the black ones I've seen.) 


But ya... champagne is um nice too.

 :biggrin:


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> how much?




+1


----------



## Golfnutz

magiccabbage said:


> how much?


 
  
 Sorry, that was an old pair that was sold long ago. You'd have to shop around to try and find them.  As DG said, they're expensive compared to regular 6AS7.


----------



## khaine1711

magiccabbage said:


> how much?


 
  
 Usually around $200-250 for a strong tested nos with original box. Pair will cost slightly more each.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Basically double of what a TS5998 pair will cost. Maybe more if like NiB.

I think 200-250 singles nos. up to a little over 300 nib for curved base singles on ebay. Pairs will end up being 500-600 this way. Probably like 400 a pair if used and not purchasing overpriced on ebay,


----------



## skeptic

Arcamera - I owned and loved a woo 3 for many years.  It was a great match with my hd650's but (IMO) just isn't detailed, resolved, dynamic or fast enough to really show off what the hd800's can do.  Tube collecting and rolling can be a lot of fun, but I question investing several hundreds of dollars on rare nos tubes for an amp that is only worth about $350 used.  Over the years, I acquired most of the highly recommended tubes for my woo 3 - holland pq 7308's and pq 6922's [drivers] and various 5998's and 7236 [power tubes] etc. (all purchased back when they were not so obscenely overpriced).  No combination of the above made the woo 3 outstanding with hd800's.  I have since acquired a GEC 6as7g, as discussed above.  [FYI this is a british made tube, not a product of general electric.]  It is a very nice tube, but again, we are talking about subtle changes in the operation of the amp.  In fact, even skylab - head-fi's most venerated proponent of the GEC tube (in the past) advises _against _buying them now given the outrageous pricing.  Unless you are going to undertake serious mods, like replacing all the cheap electrolytics in the woo and GrindingThud's awesome implementation of a bottlehead-derivative constant current board (http://www.head-fi.org/t/94853/woo3-modified/225#post_9194972 ), my advice, FWIW, would be to look at a different amp.
  
 Investing in a GEC 6as7g and a pair of decent 7308's probably would warm up the sound a bit.  But for the same money, you could build a bottlehead crack kit w/ speedball that pairs beautifully with the hd800's and betters the woo 3 in just about every way.  Frankly, I prefer my modded crack over everything in the woo lineup short of the WA5, and I'm not the only one who feels that way.  (See, e.g., post# 2573 in http://www.head-fi.org/t/476650/crack-bottlehead-otl/2565# ).  As a bonus, the guys at bottlehead, and the community surrounding the crack (both here and on the bottlehead forums), are awesome, and at the end of working through the step by step, paint by numbers styled assembly guide, you will know more about headphone audio than 90+% of the members on this site.  Basically, the build takes ~10 hours for a first time builder (like I was), and is an awesome learning experience that culminates in a great tube amp.  
  
 Alternatively, if you simply want to warm up the sound without paying much of anything - try out the anax mod.  This article explains it and provides a video tutorial at the end: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod


----------



## Arcamera

Thanks for your thoughts skeptic. Much appreciated. I will probably be considering more carefully the next move...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the GEC 6AS7G made the WA2 sound like a much more expensive amp, i think out of all the other tubes, its the ones i noticed the most improvement with.


----------



## MelvinV

dubstep girl said:


> the GEC 6AS7G made the WA2 sound like a much more expensive amp, i think out of all the other tubes, its the ones i noticed the most improvement with.


 
 I think Beats by Dre with diamonds sounds better than SR-009 and every other headphone because it is so expensive. )


----------



## Dubstep Girl

melvinv said:


> I think Beats by Dre with diamonds sounds better than SR-009 and every other headphone because it is so expensive. )


 
  
 umm ok you do that


----------



## DarKen23

melvinv said:


> dubstep girl said:
> 
> 
> > the GEC 6AS7G made the WA2 sound like a much more expensive amp, i think out of all the other tubes, its the ones i noticed the most improvement with.
> ...


STONE HIM~


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> umm ok you do that


 
  
 ha ha


----------



## DarKen23

dubstep girl said:


> melvinv said:
> 
> 
> > I think Beats by Dre with diamonds sounds better than SR-009 and every other headphone because it is so expensive. )
> ...


Gotta give em credit though, they've managed to become a reference level pair of headphones of what you don't want to listen to.


----------



## froger

skeptic said:


> a bonus, the guys at bottlehead, and the community surrounding the crack (both here and on the bottlehead forums), are awesome, and at the end of working through the step by step, paint by numbers styled assembly guide, you will know more about headphone audio than 90+% of the members on this site.


 Sounds like you have successfully elevated yourself to the top 10 % most knowledgeable members in this site. Sorry, can't help the dig, but I am sure the building process is an amazing fun ride!


----------



## LugBug1

froger said:


> Sounds like you have successfully elevated yourself to the top 10 % most knowledgeable members in this site. Sorry, can't help the dig, but I am sure the building process is an amazing fun ride!


 
  
 +1 
  
 I just hope Tyll has built one...


----------



## roskodan

just for the cronicless
 looks nice, sounds even better
  
 received it from sennheiser today
  
 you can request it trough the product registration form, takes a couple of days to get it
  
 http://en-de.sennheiser.com/service-support/services/register-your-product
  
 type hd800 into the form text field, or any  other product name or part number you want to register
  
 you need to check *"Yes, please send me the frequency response certificate for my HD 800. "*
  
 cheers


----------



## sp3llv3xit

roskodan said:


> just for the cronicless
> looks nice, sounds even better
> 
> received it from sennheiser today
> ...


 
  
 Can you provide a direct url address to the page where I can request for that?


----------



## roskodan

here is the link
  
 http://en-de.sennheiser.com/service-support/services/register-your-product
  
 type hd800 into the form text field, or any  other product name or part number you want to register
  
 you need to check *"Yes, please send me the frequency response certificate for my HD 800. "*
  
 edited original post too


----------



## sp3llv3xit

roskodan said:


> here is the link
> 
> http://en-de.sennheiser.com/service-support/services/register-your-product
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## skeptic

arcamera said:


> Thanks for your thoughts skeptic. Much appreciated. I will probably be considering more carefully the next move...


 
  
 You're most welcome!  Ears and opinions certainly vary, but I figured I should chime in given the hundreds of hours I spent with a woo 3.  I'll look forward to hearing which way you ultimately decide to go.  


lugbug1 said:


> +1
> I just hope Tyll has built one...


 
  
 Indeed he has!  http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/marvelously-addictive-bottlehead-crack  As have the guys at headphonia, as has Guttenberg, etc.


froger said:


> Sounds like you have successfully elevated yourself to the top 10 % most knowledgeable members in this site. Sorry, can't help the dig, but I am sure the building process is an amazing fun ride!


 
  
 Touche!  Then again, after 5.5 years of following this forum, and posting periodically, I would posit that this really isn't a very high bar.  Head-fi gets ~110k page views per day.  If you are a regular reader and have a basic functional knowledge of circuits, or have ever attended a meet and listened to a wide range of gear, or have ever built a piece of diy electronics, welcome to the club


----------



## Sanlitun

Got my chart today. Shows a bit of a rise around 6k which is probably why I am having issues with mine:


----------



## Audio Jester

Out of interest is there much variation between the graphs of different HD800's?


----------



## Stoids

Just received the first two of three new toys -- the HD800s and Bifrost. 
  
 The WA6-SE comes in Friday. I knew I couldn't judge the HD800s fully until I got the Woo, but there's no way I wasn't going to plug it into my O2 amp and try. At first it was a bit of shock to my ears -- I wasn't sure what to think about it. It wasn't necessarily bad; it was just an entirely different sonic experience than the HD600s. I gave my ears a break and enjoyed the new Bifrost through my existing HD600  system. It sounded fantastic. 
  
 After enjoying the 600s, I decided to go back to the 800s. I went straight to music I had heard a million times, and the break made the difference. Although I can still see the limitations of the O2, it still shows off the incredible attributes of the 800s. The biggest thing is imaging. I didn't even know what that word really meant until spending a few hours with the 800s. It's overwhelming to listen to your favorite music and get such a powerfully unique experience -- almost like the first time again. 
  
 I'll limit slobbering praise until some more time. 
  
 Can't wait for the Woo on Friday.


----------



## Jd007

stoids said:


> Just received the first two of three new toys -- the HD800s and Bifrost.
> 
> The WA6-SE comes in Friday. I knew I couldn't judge the HD800s fully until I got the Woo, but there's no way I wasn't going to plug it into my O2 amp and try. At first it was a bit of shock to my ears -- I wasn't sure what to think about it. It wasn't necessarily bad; it was just an entirely different sonic experience than the HD600s. I gave my ears a break and enjoyed the new Bifrost through my existing HD600  system. It sounded fantastic.
> 
> ...


 
  
 it does take some time getting used to the hd800 sound. when i went from the hd650 to the 800 it took me a week or so to starting liking the 800


----------



## Maxvla

The O2 is a fine amp, especially for the price. The tone and texture is very good as is sense of space. The problem I had with it was dynamic contrast was shallow and it sounded a bit tight at times. I wouldn't expect a great deal of improvement with the WA6SE, except the dynamics should be much improved.


----------



## Stoids

maxvla said:


> The O2 is a fine amp, especially for the price. The tone and texture is very good as is sense of space. The problem I had with it was dynamic contrast was shallow and it sounded a bit tight at times. I wouldn't expect a great deal of improvement with the WA6SE, except the dynamics should be much improved.


 
  
 Indeed it is a great amp. It certainly serves the purpose of clearly presenting the music and acting as gain on a wire. I expect the Woo to smooth out things more than change the already incredible sound of the 800s.


----------



## DarKen23

roskodan said:


> just for the cronicless
> looks nice, sounds even better
> 
> received it from sennheiser today
> ...


Thank you for this! I've had mine for 3 weeks now and forgot to request a chart. I know you said a few days but do you recall the exact number of days till you got the chart, 2-3? Thanks again.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

audio jester said:


> Out of interest is there much variation between the graphs of different HD800's?


 
  
 There should be minute differences.  We can do a chart comparison when I receive mine.


----------



## BournePerfect

pudu said:


> I hear that. After seeing your all-black ZD I decided that was the one for me as well.
> 
> (Though I prefer my silver Woo to the black ones I've seen.)
> 
> ...


----------



## DarKen23

bourneperfect said:


> pudu said:
> 
> 
> > I hear that. After seeing your all-black ZD I decided that was the one for me as well.
> ...


SEX is the only word I can think of..


----------



## Sorrodje

sanlitun said:


> Got my chart today. Shows a bit of a rise around 6k which is probably why I am having issues with mine:


 
  
 oh Just received mine today morning :
  

  
  
 Very different indeed. Can we consider these charts as very reliable ?


----------



## sp3llv3xit

sorrodje said:


> oh Just received mine today morning :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 And here is mine.


----------



## Maxvla

Not very different at all, actually. Compare these to tests of Beyerdynamic headphones and the HD800s would look practically identical.


----------



## roskodan

darken23 said:


> Thank you for this! I've had mine for 3 weeks now and forgot to request a chart. I know you said a few days but do you recall the exact number of days till you got the chart, 2-3? Thanks again.


 
  
 mine came after 1&1/2 working day saturday to thursday
  
 i auditioned a brighter pair than the one i got, at least from what i remember, and kinda at first liked it more, probably cos my violectric stack is on the worm side, or maybe it was the one fantastrillion dollar rca interconnection cable thay had at the dealers store 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 
  


maxvla said:


> Not very different at all, actually. Compare these to tests of Beyerdynamic headphones and the HD800s would look practically identical.


 
 like they should


----------



## DarKen23

roskodan said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for this! I've had mine for 3 weeks now and forgot to request a chart. I know you said a few days but do you recall the exact number of days till you got the chart, 2-3? Thanks again.
> ...


Actually I just received it. Lol rather fast, took about 3-4 hours? I'll post it as soon as I learn how to download the PDF file on this friggin iPhone


----------



## Sorrodje

maxvla said:


> Not very different at all, actually. Compare these to tests of Beyerdynamic headphones and the HD800s would look practically identical.


 
  
 Yes not VERY different indeed . only one or two db here or there but from what I experienced my hd800 si very sensitive to eq. and my ears are very sensitve to any differences in 3-8Khz FR . so One or two db diffrence in this area should produce obvious sonic differences?  6Khz peak in Sanlitun's graph seems to be more pronouced than on mine.


----------



## DarKen23




----------



## Pudu

bourneperfect said:


>






Ya baby!


----------



## navigavi

pudu said:


> Ya baby!


 
  
 Nice! Also like the violectric stack you have there. My hd800 and HD 580 both sound very good on them. What are your impressions of the hd800 on the v200+v800?


----------



## navigavi

Chart of my new HD800 I bought a couple of weeks ago in London at Harrods. Auditioned it paired up with the HDVD800. They also had some high end stax headphones, but my love for the hd800 is much stronger


----------



## Pudu

navigavi said:


> Nice! Also like the violectric stack you have there. My hd800 and HD 580 both sound very good on them. What are your impressions of the hd800 on the v200+v800?




Truthfully I haven't spend a ton of time listening to the V200. I think technically it's excellent and I really enjoy the sound signature. I do find the staging a bit weird, but that may be because I've been so entrenched in the OTL sound for so long.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

I love the OTL sound. 

In fact, long term, im looking at Allnic hpa-5000 as possible tube endgame


----------



## Pudu

OTL spice rack. :tongue_smile:

Tasty!


----------



## wink

Got my graph as a PDF in an email today.
 It definitely has the 6KHz to 7KHz peak. The Anax mod tames it really well.
 (image missing) 
 (image missing)


----------



## BournePerfect

darken23 said:


> SEX is the only word I can think of..


 
  
 I've never owned a better amp, and I've never seen a better looking one (and I own a WA5LE). 
  


pudu said:


> Ya baby!


 
  
 Beautiful, Pudu! How long have you owned it? Favorite tube?
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Pudu

Cheers man.


About three months, but was travelling for half of that. My favourite tube is the one it came with - because when I take it out the amp stops working ... I haven't switch from the stock tube yet (I know, I know h34r - I just haven't gotten around to sourcing a few tubes to try - I hate that part.

Sophia Electric right?


----------



## BournePerfect

That was my favorite-but I only tried a few. I'm sure there are better out there. And yeah-you haven't REALLY heard what the ZDSE can do with that stock tube-sorry. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Pudu

I'm on it.


Soon


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> I love the OTL sound.
> 
> In fact, long term, im looking at Allnic hpa-5000 as possible tube endgame


 
  
 would you consider any of the Manley labs amps? Maybe the neo classic?


----------



## magiccabbage

its supposed to be nice with T1 and HD800


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Might be too lush, id have to ask someone that has a manley, like my friend who had one of them, or maybe davidmahler


----------



## Revogamer

Got my HD800 last week; been enjoying them through my Schiit Bifrost - > Woo WA6 w/ Sophia - sounding great!

 Also bought T1's yesterday.. loving them both; no clear winning - just different 
  
 Here is my frequency graph;
  
 No peak for me it seems?


----------



## LugBug1

revogamer said:


> Got my HD800 last week; been enjoying them through my Schiit Bifrost - > Woo WA6 w/ Sophia - sounding great!
> 
> Also bought T1's yesterday.. loving them both; no clear winning - just different
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats! 
  
  
 Also, and just in general. Do you hear any peaks? Did you find them peaky before you seen the graph? 
  
 My graph looks like yours. And although the treble of them has never bothered me in the slightest, objectively I know they do have the same peaks as everyone else's. Because I can hear it. 
  
 For those who have graphs that show more peaks, I really wouldn't concern yourself with it. There has been lots and lots of tests from some very experienced members with lots of hd800's and they all pretty much sound the same. A slight movement when the graph test was done can create differences in the freq response. 
  
 The chart is more of a record certificate rather than any frequency uniqueness.


----------



## Revogamer

The WA6 seems to same the highs 'peaky' ness very well - found them a little bit more so on the Burson Soloist SL i was using prior; what amp are you running?


----------



## LugBug1

revogamer said:


> The WA6 seems to same the highs 'peaky' ness very well - found them a little bit more so on the Burson Soloist SL i was using prior; what amp are you running?


 
  
 I'm currently plugged into a vintage Sansui 551. Some of these old vintage amps have great treble without any solid state sharpness. They sound very tube like imo. 
  
 They also really bring out the bottom end and I like that as a preference. 
  
 But yeah the peaks will defo be amp dependant. For instance if they are being underpowered then you might hear a lot more treble than bass and then they will be brought to the forefront. 
  
 I'd love to try a Woo amp. Hard to get here in the uk, but I'm always on the look out. I'd also like to give a Crack otl a go.


----------



## Revogamer

lugbug1 said:


> I'm currently plugged into a vintage Sansui 551. Some of these old vintage amps have great treble without any solid state sharpness. They sound very tube like imo.
> 
> They also really bring out the bottom end and I like that as a preference.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow nice amp's you have there; (had a look at your gallery in sig) - the woo is definately worth it; i got this for a great price - i would have gone WA2 or WA6 SE if i was buying new though.

 Worst part about it for me is i sell all of the gear at my work so surrounded daily! (In New Zealand, one of the only ones selling it here  )
  
 Bought the T1 and HD800s within two weeks of each other


----------



## LugBug1

revogamer said:


> Wow nice amp's you have there; (had a look at your gallery in sig) - the woo is definately worth it; i got this for a great price - i would have gone WA2 or WA6 SE if i was buying new though.
> 
> Worst part about it for me is i sell all of the gear at my work so surrounded daily! (In New Zealand, one of the only ones selling it here  )
> 
> Bought the T1 and HD800s within two weeks of each other


 
  
 Thanks
  
 Sounds like you've got the perfect job! But I'm sure your wallet would disagree 
  
 Keep us informed how you get on with both of those headphones, I nearly went for the T1's but new I had to try the HD800's first. I really liked the dt880's when I had them though.


----------



## Revogamer

lugbug1 said:


> Thanks
> 
> Sounds like you've got the perfect job! But I'm sure your wallet would disagree
> 
> Keep us informed how you get on with both of those headphones, I nearly went for the T1's but new I had to try the HD800's first. I really liked the dt880's when I had them though.


 
  
 I have found them to be different, but not better than one another...
  
 It really comes down to both being all rounder's but having a different signature within each; 

 What i find different most is the T1 seperate the instruments and vocal's more as it feels like the singer is centre and you can clearly feel the gap between them and the instruments around.
  
 While the HD800 is more 'full' with having great seperation - but moreso feels like they are still joined together and not having any of the gaps - I suppose you would call this airyness?
  
 Both are going great with the WA6 though - loving it!


----------



## Dopaminer

So here is something some of you may find interesting.  I live in Tokyo, and Amazon Japan yesterday had one-only, new, 24xxxxx HD800 for 117,000 yen or roughly $1,100 USD.   I have been ready to pull the trigger, at much higher prices than this, on the HD800 for the past two weeks and so I snapped it up on spot.  From my shakey Japanese reading ability I understood that the reason for the discount (from 160,000 yen)  was that the box was somehow damaged and this information included a lengthy promise of it not impacting the headphones at all. After I purchased, they contacted me with these pictures, just to confirm that I was really, really okay with the damaged packaging: 
  

  

  

  

  
 They are arriving on Saturday, in about 36 hours so I`ll know then if I am as lucky as I think I may be . .


----------



## BournePerfect

Looks like you found yourself a heck of a deal! Congrats.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## LugBug1

dopaminer said:


> So here is something some of you may find interesting.  I live in Tokyo, and Amazon Japan yesterday had one-only, new, 24xxxxx HD800 for 117,000 yen or roughly $1,100 USD.   I have been ready to pull the trigger, at much higher prices than this, on the HD800 for the past two weeks and so I snapped it up on spot.  From my shakey Japanese reading ability I understood that the reason for the discount (from 160,000 yen)  was that the box was somehow damaged and this information included a lengthy promise of it not impacting the headphones at all. After I purchased, they contacted me with these pictures, just to confirm that I was really, really okay with the damaged packaging:
> 
> 
> 
> They are arriving on Saturday, in about 36 hours so I`ll know then if I am as lucky as I think I may be . .


 
 There's no way on earth I'd accept a box in that kind of state. 





  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 Congrats!!


----------



## palmfish

^^
LOL


----------



## bearFNF

Just hope the phones are in the box...:tongue_smile:


----------



## silversurfer616

revogamer said:


> I have found them to be different, but not better than one another...
> 
> It really comes down to both being all rounder's but having a different signature within each;
> 
> ...



I do prefer the HD600 out of the WA6(no matter whether I use the Sophia Princess or the Emission Labs rectifier).
The HD800 sounds "out of this world" from my vintage Pioneer.


----------



## DarKen23

silversurfer616 said:


> revogamer said:
> 
> 
> > I have found them to be different, but not better than one another...
> ...


Which pioneer model are you using? Have you heard the Marantz 2226? Opinions that that Marantz?


----------



## silversurfer616

I use the Pioneer SX 1010 and it transforms the HD800....ah,well,however you want to put it,it is just a really good synergy and the WA6 pales in comparison.
Also,the Pioneer has excellent tone controls.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Those rs1 look really sweet!!!


----------



## silversurfer616

Those are actually some Symphones Magnums built by an Austrian HeadFier named stratocaster.Really great sounding headphones!


----------



## LugBug1

silversurfer616 said:


> I use the Pioneer SX 1010 and it transforms the HD800....ah,well,however you want to put it,it is just a really good synergy and the WA6 pales in comparison.


 
 Nice to see some love for good ole vintage amps. 
  

  

  
 This is my latest Pioneer. It sounds very good to me 
  
(apologies if you've already seen these pics on another thread)


----------



## magiccabbage

lugbug1 said:


> Nice to see some love for good ole vintage amps.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a chance of buying the same amp - impressions?


----------



## LugBug1

magiccabbage said:


> I have a chance of buying the same amp - impressions?


 
  
 A very bold sound. But not without detail or balance. A lot of depth, earthy sounding. Treble is rich without nearing any kind of harshness. This is of course with the HD800's plugged in. Its a late 70's Pioneer when they were at their best. I'm not going to try and convince you that it will sound better than a high end hp amp because I'm sure that it won't. But I'd confidently let it compete with anything under $1000. 
  
 Most important... The SQ will depend on how good the insides still are 
  
 Don't pay any-more than $150 (usd) I paid £60 for her above. I spent a lot of time cleaning her up but that's all part of the fun.


----------



## brunk

lugbug1 said:


> Nice to see some love for good ole vintage amps.


 
 Not quite vintage yet, almost 10 years since it came out though. It has that nice vintage look however. I'm currently using it to power my HE-6 until I finish my DIY First Watt F5


----------



## highrolller

Just wondering guys, I see two types of HD800's? One with a silver ring around the small grill on each earcup and one with a blue one? What does this mean? Different ohms? Balanced or single ended?


----------



## DarKen23

highrolller said:


> Just wondering guys, I see two types of HD800's? One with a silver ring around the small grill on each earcup and one with a blue one? What does this mean? Different ohms? Balanced or single ended?


....





The blue ringed models are customized.


----------



## BournePerfect

Actually I think Senn put them out in a limited edition...feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Pudu

Look to the right of DarKen's post. ( at least on my page)


edit: details


----------



## highrolller

Cheers guys.


----------



## DarKen23

highrolller said:


> Cheers guys.


----------



## Dopaminer

Okay here is a follow up on my post a couple of pages back.  Amazon Japan delivered my new HD800 with the `damaged` box, which they had photographed and sent to me to confirm my order, and which i included in my previous post.  These pictures I just took a few minutes ago after the delivery guy left.  When I opened the Amazon packing container I realized I had been mislead, as you can see : 
  

  

  

  

  

  
 The box is not the one in the photos from Amazon, it is pristine and my new HD800 is on my head blowing my mind (the syncopated cowbell in Trombone Shorty`s `Buckjump` sounds like it`s 2 meters behind my chair).  So why the reverse scam - offering a fake 30% scratch-and-dent discount ?  Probably it has to do with `volume discounts` from distributors to retailers, whereby big sellers reach a point in their inventory where the profit margin they earn for each unit sold becomes less than the discount they can receive from the distributor/manufacturer for ordering more units.  It sounds wonky but if you think about it the math could make sense.  A couple of years ago I bought an iMac here that was labeled `used` and hugely discounted, however it was clearly unused (everything still factory sealed, no software installed).  My friend who works for Apple Japan told me it must have been the result of this kind of discount system. The retailer can easily move the unit out the door by discounting it so much, more than their sales contract allows, and therefor push their inventory statistics into a range which qualify for future discounts/rebates/priority shipping from the distributor/manufacturer.  (This could also indicate something new is coming from Senn, and dealers are trying to move the current stock.  . .   Not that I`m rumor-mongering. ) 
  
 More importantly, holy crap these headphones are freakin` amazing !


----------



## LugBug1

brunk said:


> Not quite vintage yet, almost 10 years since it came out though. It has that nice vintage look however. I'm currently using it to power my HE-6 until I finish my DIY First Watt F5


 
 I know that model and it is very highly rated. I'd like to try one some day. Plus it looks very elegant.
  


dopaminer said:


> More importantly, holy crap these headphones are freakin` amazing !


 
 Congrats! That theory kind of makes sense as well. Cos they wouldn't be allowed to advertise them at the discounted price.


----------



## highrolller

> More importantly, holy crap these headphones are freakin` amazing !


 
 Gratz man, wish I could hear these T.T


----------



## DarKen23

dopaminer said:


> Okay here is a follow up on my post a couple of pages back.  Amazon Japan delivered my new HD800 with the `damaged` box, which they had photographed and sent to me to confirm my order, and which i included in my previous post.  These pictures I just took a few minutes ago after the delivery guy left.  When I opened the Amazon packing container I realized I had been mislead, as you can see :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your box looks very different from mine..Not trying to scare you or anything.


----------



## LugBug1

The serial number is the very latest batch - 24***. They must have changed the box design... Mine is dfferent too. Mine are 21*** 
  
 How dare they!!


----------



## DarKen23

lugbug1 said:


> The serial number is the very latest batch - 24***. They must have changed the box design... Mine is dfferent too. Mine are 21***
> 
> How dare they!!


Mine are 23xxx, and my box looks different as well, probably same a yours though Lug


----------



## Dubstep Girl

old box looked alot better.


----------



## Pudu

Yep, the vintage boxes sounded the best.

The new ones? Well ...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

pudu said:


> Yep, the vintage boxes sounded the best.
> 
> The new ones? Well ...


----------



## Dopaminer

Interesting.  I received four manual-books, in many languages...   Did your inner, luxo boxes look like mine, or different?  And did the inside, holding the precious HD800, look like the inside of a coffin, same as mine ?


----------



## philo50

^too funny....


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yes, yes it did


----------



## longbowbbs

pudu said:


> Yep, the vintage boxes sounded the best.
> 
> The new ones? Well ...


 
  
 Nice!


----------



## vmullot

Hello to all,
  
 One question, is it possible to use speaker amp (Audiomat Opera ref 2 x 30 watt tube) to drive the HD800 with the Hifiman HE-Adaptater?
  
 Thanks!
  
 Vincent.


----------



## brunk

vmullot said:


> Hello to all,
> 
> One question, is it possible to use speaker amp (Audiomat Opera ref 2 x 30 watt tube) to drive the HD800 with the Hifiman HE-Adaptater?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes it's possible. Whether it sounds good or not is a different matter.


----------



## LugBug1

Mine sounded a bit 'boxy' when I first got them...


----------



## Stoids

lugbug1 said:


> The serial number is the very latest batch - 24***. They must have changed the box design... Mine is dfferent too. Mine are 21***
> 
> How dare they!!



Just received my 800s this week from Amazon (SN #24***) and my outer box looks different than those pictures as well. Does the box have the Sennheiser authenticity security label on the bottom to verify?


----------



## Dopaminer

Stoids, congratulations on your acquisition and thanks so much for that tip - I used my phone to scan the bar code and it linked to the Sennheiser website, which sent me the code for the hologram on the box and it is in fact authentic !  

 At least, the box is authentic.  But I`ve heard it doesn`t sound as good as the earlier boxes. . .   
  
 I just watched the blu-ray of Oblivion: truly epic soundstage, separation and thundering, growling bass.  The HD800s have 6 hours on them now.  And they`re going to start sounding BETTER ?  
  
 I`m using the TEAC UD-H01, which I bought last night so it has the same runtime as the phones.  If burn-in is real, I have an embarrassment of good sounds . . .


----------



## BournePerfect

Nice. I just watched Oblivion blu a couple of weeks ago on my DP-1/HD800s...always an incredible experience with this combo.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i have yet to watch that, downloaded it not too long ago but haven't yet, i'll be sure to use HD 800 when i do though!


----------



## raylliant

In case anyone is interested, I'm selling my pair of HD800 for 1199


----------



## DarKen23

bourneperfect said:


> Nice. I just watched Oblivion blu a couple of weeks ago on my DP-1/HD800s...always an incredible experience with this combo.
> 
> -Daniel


You need to watch the remake of "The Thing" . "World War Z" was good as well.


----------



## Pustik

lugbug1 said:


> The serial number is the very latest batch - 24***. They must have changed the box design... Mine is dfferent too. Mine are 21***
> 
> How dare they!!


 
  
 I had 24*** HD 800 few weeks ago the box was the same as the old ones. I think it depends on the country where it's sold. I'm receiving one of the newer models in few weeks, perhaps it's 25***, I'll let you guys know if the box changed or not.


----------



## DarKen23

Who said the HD800 are bass light.


----------



## James-uk

Agreed . They really are a window into the recording. Listening to the new arctic monkeys album I want less bass!


----------



## BournePerfect

What a nice looking rig there-to say nothing of the cables. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## DarKen23

bourneperfect said:


> What a nice looking rig there-to say nothing of the cables.
> 
> -Daniel


----------



## sp3llv3xit

darken23 said:


> Who said the HD800 are bass light.


 


 LOL.  Bassheads, apparently.


----------



## DarKen23

sp3llv3xit said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Who said the HD800 are bass light.
> ...



]


----------



## BournePerfect

Oh Peter...? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What other good amps (not LF) have you heard the HD800s on-and how do you feel the GSX improves upon them? I've nearly pulled the trigger on the Headamp numerous times-but my experience with the 'dead nuts neutral' Master 8 have put me off after a so-so audition with the Senns. Although I HIGHLY supect it was the M7's distant presentation with the Senns that turned me off of the pairing-not the neutral (not harsh!) M8.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## MacedonianHero

bourneperfect said:


> Oh Peter...?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Heard many....WA22, B22 (3Ch), Zana Deux, WA2, MAD Ear Super II, LF (as you mentioned), Audio gd Phoenix, Meier Concerto, Headroom BUDA...that's about all that I can think of at 11:30pm (plus all on my profile page that I've owned).
  
 Just because the M8 is supposedly a "wire with gain" style amp, doesn't mean that they all sound the same. Some do it better than others.
  
 BTW, thanks for coming over to this thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Much better now. I'll buy you a beer if you're ever in Toronto. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Sorry...off to bed. Early start tomorrow.


----------



## magiccabbage

In 3 months the hd800's will be mine!!!!!!


----------



## BournePerfect

macedonianhero said:


> Heard many....WA22, B22 (3Ch), Zana Deux, WA2, MAD Ear Super II, LF (as you mentioned), Audio gd Phoenix, Meier Concerto, Headroom BUDA...that's about all that I can think of at 11:30pm (plus all on my profile page that I've owned).
> 
> Just because the M7 and M8 are supposedly "wire with gain" style amps, doesn't mean that they all sound the same. Some do it better than others.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't drink-it affects my hearing.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  




  
  
  
 Thanks for the amp update...keep enjoying those numerous rigs you have there-and post a BDA-2 review already! 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## MacedonianHero

bourneperfect said:


> I don't drink-it affects my hearing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Getting around to it...busy with my LL vs. KGSSHV comparison. Now that's done the BDA-2 is next...about a week or so. 
  
 <Cheers>


----------



## BournePerfect

magiccabbage said:


> In 3 months the hd800's will be mine!!!!!!


 
  
  
 That's some slooooow shipping...but congrats! What will you be pairing them with?
  
 -Daniel


----------



## magiccabbage

bourneperfect said:


> That's some slooooow shipping...but congrats! What will you be pairing them with?
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 wa2


----------



## magiccabbage

I bought the T1's not too long ago and then a new laptop - which slowed me down a bit. Also i am unemployed so its a bit harder for me.


----------



## BournePerfect

Sounds like you got a fine amp that works well with both the T1s and the HD800! Sorry to hear about the unemployment-hope that turns to your favor sooner rather than later.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Sorrodje

macedonianhero said:


> Heard many....WA22, B22 (3Ch), Zana Deux, WA2, MAD Ear Super II, LF (as you mentioned), Audio gd Phoenix, Meier Concerto, Headroom BUDA...that's about all that I can think of at 11:30pm (plus all on my profile page that I've owned).


 
  
  
 What do you thing about Meier Concerto ? I'm currently using a Meier Corda Jazz with an old Dacmagic as DAC and i'm very happy wiht HD800/Jazz/Dacmagic combo. I found with that a good crompromise of detail, transparency and a bit of smoothness & warmness.  Nevertheless Meier's stack Classic+Daccord makes me envy


----------



## XVampireX

dubstep girl said:


> i have yet to watch that, downloaded it not too long ago but haven't yet, i'll be sure to use HD 800 when i do though!


 
  
 Make sure you give us your opinions on the LCD-3 with that movie or some other.


----------



## MacedonianHero

sorrodje said:


> What do you thing about Meier Concerto ? I'm currently using a Meier Corda Jazz with an old Dacmagic as DAC and i'm very happy wiht HD800/Jazz/Dacmagic combo. I found with that a good crompromise of detail, transparency and a bit of smoothness & warmness.  Nevertheless Meier's stack Classic+Daccord makes me envy


 
  
 It was a bit too tizzy up top for the HD800s IMO. The newer Meier Classic amp is the way I'd go instead between the two.


----------



## Arcamera

Sorry if this has been discussed already, but can anyone comment on cable changes for the HD800? In particular, I'm thinking of the Cardas offering. For instance, I liked the Cardas cable for the HD650-- I do think it was an improvement. However, I thought it was a subtle improvement-- the law of diminishing returns kicking in. The buck gets higher and the bang gets lower. In absolute terms/cost no object though, I think cables can make a difference. Just hoping people can share their experiences with cables for the HD800. Thanks.


----------



## Greed

arcamera said:


> Sorry if this has been discussed already, but can anyone comment on cable changes for the HD800? In particular, I'm thinking of the Cardas offering. For instance, I liked the Cardas cable for the HD650-- I do think it was an improvement. However, I thought it was a subtle improvement-- the law of diminishing returns kicking in. The buck gets higher and the bang gets lower. In absolute terms/cost no object though, I think cables can make a difference. Just hoping people can share their experiences with cables for the HD800. Thanks.


 
  
 Cables are almost always subtle improvements. YMMV


----------



## uelover

arcamera said:


> Sorry if this has been discussed already, but can anyone comment on cable changes for the HD800? In particular, I'm thinking of the Cardas offering. For instance, I liked the Cardas cable for the HD650-- I do think it was an improvement. However, I thought it was a subtle improvement-- the law of diminishing returns kicking in. The buck gets higher and the bang gets lower. In absolute terms/cost no object though, I think cables can make a difference. Just hoping people can share their experiences with cables for the HD800. Thanks.




I have ordered the cardas clear cable for the hd800. Will report back when I receive it


----------



## froger

I like what I am hearing with my Moon Audio Black Dragon V2 with HD800. Sounds smoother and more detailed to me. Toxic cable Black Widow seems to gather quite a few favourable reviews too, but that wait will kill me.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am loving the Toxic Cable Silver Widows with the HD800's....Great upgrade.


----------



## rawrster

longbowbbs said:


> I am loving the Toxic Cable Silver Widows with the HD800's....Great upgrade.


 
  
 I have the same cable and it's definitely a nice cable. Although it is a bit lost on me as at that time the HD800 was my focus and I had it terminated to a 4 pin XLR and now I own no balanced amps -_-


----------



## longbowbbs

rawrster said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I am loving the Toxic Cable Silver Widows with the HD800's....Great upgrade.
> ...


 
  
 Drop Frank a PM. He makes a 4 pin to SE adapter. This way I can use the HD800's SE or Balanced and only order the one Silver Widow....


----------



## rawrster

No worries I have adapters for my cable. I just meant that the original use of the cable I had in mind is lost on me now. I had a Mjolnir at the time before my focus went away from the HD800 where I'm happy with my D1 dac/amp. I barely use the HD800 these days anyway.


----------



## longbowbbs

rawrster said:


> No worries I have adapters for my cable. I just meant that the original use of the cable I had in mind is lost on me now. I had a Mjolnir at the time before my focus went away from the HD800 where I'm happy with my D1 dac/amp. I barely use the HD800 these days anyway.


 
  
 The 800's are my primary. I am enjoying the HD650's tonight. I have Silver Poison's for them.


----------



## DarKen23

longbowbbs said:


> rawrster said:
> 
> 
> > No worries I have adapters for my cable. I just meant that the original use of the cable I had in mind is lost on me now. I had a Mjolnir at the time before my focus went away from the HD800 where I'm happy with my D1 dac/amp. I barely use the HD800 these days anyway.
> ...


How long did you have to wait for the cables to arrive at your door with toxic cables?


----------



## BournePerfect

rawrster said:


> No worries I have adapters for my cable. I just meant that the original use of the cable I had in mind is lost on me now. I had a Mjolnir at the time before my focus went away from the HD800 where I'm happy with my D1 dac/amp. I barely use the HD800 these days anyway.


 
  
  
 SELL. IT. TO. ME. (the cable)
  
 -Daniel


----------



## DarKen23

bourneperfect said:


> rawrster said:
> 
> 
> > No worries I have adapters for my cable. I just meant that the original use of the cable I had in mind is lost on me now. I had a Mjolnir at the time before my focus went away from the HD800 where I'm happy with my D1 dac/amp. I barely use the HD800 these days anyway.
> ...


Lol Daniel, are you still looking for a balanced cable?


----------



## Dopaminer

Since I saved so much on the price of my HD800s, I calculated that I could not afford not to upgrade the cables.  I got these today in Tokyo, made by ADL, also known as Furutech.  
  

  

  

 My hd800s are new; so is the DAC I`m listening to them through, so there`s no point in my denying that I got these cables simply because they look cool.  Maybe after a few hundred hours I`ll put the original cables back on and listen for a difference . . .


----------



## sp3llv3xit

dopaminer said:


> Since I saved so much on the price of my HD800s, I calculated that I could not afford not to upgrade the cables.  I got these today in Tokyo, made by ADL, also known as Furutech.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I am also eyeing these cables as a possible (more like probable) upgrade in the next few months.  Please post your impression of the cables, sir.  I shall be looking forward to it.


----------



## longbowbbs

darken23 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > rawrster said:
> ...


 
  
 5 months.....Love the cables. Hate the patience....


----------



## songmic

dopaminer said:


> Since I saved so much on the price of my HD800s, I calculated that I could not afford not to upgrade the cables.  I got these today in Tokyo, made by ADL, also known as Furutech.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I already tried this cable, ADL iHP-35Hx, earlier this year, but eventually sold them because they didn't make much improvements to my ears even after months of burn-in. I agree that it looks cool, though.
  
 I think the current best buy for the HD800 is the premium version of the Black Dragon V2, which uses the same carbon fiber Furutech connectors found in the Japanese cable.
http://www.moon-audio.com/black-dragon-v2-premium-hd800-headphone-cable.html
  
 Although I did not get to try out the premium version, the Black Dragon V2 was the best cable for the HD800 in my opinion because it is surprisingly effective (for a cable) in taking some edge off HD800's harsh treble, while making the HD800 sound overall warmer and more enjoyable. I can only guess that the premium version, with its improved connectors, will be at least good if not better. Plus, it looks cooler than the iHP-35Hx.


----------



## Dopaminer

Come now, HOW could it look cooler than this ADL iHP-35Hx, or whatever it`s called ? ! ? !   Actually, doesn`t it look exactly the same? 
  
 But seriously, as I mentioned I just got The Headphones, and the dac, 2 days ago so I haven`t been able to form any nuanced opinion of the sound of the hd800s, let alone the stock cable.  It was completely a visually aesthetic purchase.  I can comment that the connectors feel very high quality and snapped into place reassuringly, and the fabric weave on the housing is tight and very slippery.  I am looking forward to putting the stock cables back on in a few months, once I get my hardware sorted out, and my ripping (my CD-to-FLAC ripping is totally hit or miss, for some reason and probably always has been, but I didn`t notice because my previous `phones didn`t have this resolving power).  Maybe I will hear a difference then.  
  
 David


----------



## DarknightDK

longbowbbs said:


> I am loving the Toxic Cable Silver Widows with the HD800's....Great upgrade.


 
  
 I have the silver widows paired with my HD800 as well and can vouch for the pairing.


----------



## DarKen23

songmic said:


> dopaminer said:
> 
> 
> > Since I saved so much on the price of my HD800s, I calculated that I could not afford not to upgrade the cables.  I got these today in Tokyo, made by ADL, also known as Furutech.
> ...



+1 for Moon Audio cables. Im currently not using the black dragon series for my HD800 but they did make a change for the better on my previously owned LCD2.


----------



## Arcamera

Has anyone compared the Black Dragon with the Cardas for the HD800?
  
 Also, sorry if this is getting off topic, but does anyone here use a power conditioner that seems to work well with an HD800 system? I'm new to that, and wonder if a dedicated power component is worth it. Thanks.


----------



## DarKen23

arcamera said:


> Has anyone compared the Black Dragon with the Cardas for the HD800?
> 
> Also, sorry if this is getting off topic, but does anyone here use a power conditioner that seems to work well with an HD800 system? I'm new to that, and wonder if a dedicated power component is worth it. Thanks.


Im using a APC H10. Imo, power management is something you should seriously consider if you've got spikes and sags. I have electrical issues in my home-particularly my room, lights shutting on and off on its own as well as other phenomenons. The APC H10 is a line conditioner as well as a voltage regulator and it does a fantastic job given those mysterious problems vanished. Its gives you peace of mind knowing that your investments are protected and fed a clean consistent power. As for SQ, it provided a better blackground, you wont get mind blowing improvements.


----------



## brunk

darken23 said:


> Im using a APC H10. Imo, power management is something you should seriously consider if you've got spikes and sags. I have electrical issues in my home-particularly my room, lights shutting on and off on its own as well as other phenomenons. The APC H10 is a line conditioner as well as a voltage regulator and it does a fantastic job given those mysterious problems vanished. Its gives you peace of mind knowing that your investments are protected and fed a clean consistent power. As for SQ, it provided a better blackground, you wont get mind blowing improvements.


 
  
 I can echo similar experiences, but the main reason is for prolonging the life of your gear. Peace of mind is a wonderful thing in regards to power, especially with winter around the corner...


----------



## nigeljames

darknightdk said:


> I have the silver widows paired with my HD800 as well and can vouch for the pairing.


 
  
 +1


----------



## rawrster

bourneperfect said:


> SELL. IT. TO. ME. (the cable)
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 never! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm too lazy to sell it as I would want a SE cable and the stock cable isn't as nice as the silver poison.


----------



## BournePerfect

Too bad Frank didn't respond to my numerous emails over a three week span or I'd have a Silver Widow myself. Guess he's satisfied with demand. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 -Daniel


----------



## rawrster

I wouldn't want to go through that again. I forgot that I ordered cables after a while but the wait is too long to buy for me.


----------



## jsgraha

arcamera said:


> Has anyone compared the Black Dragon with the Cardas for the HD800?
> 
> Also, sorry if this is getting off topic, but does anyone here use a power conditioner that seems to work well with an HD800 system? I'm new to that, and wonder if a dedicated power component is worth it. Thanks.




I think it's something that you have to try for yourself.
My suggestion is to try to listen on different time of the day.
If there's different experience, then you might go down the road finding power conditioner.

And also, try to remove all wallwart (iphone charger, other phone charger etc) from your house when listening. I found this effect on listening hd800 as the noise from wallwart really bother me even it's from my daughter bedroom (maybe different noise on different location of the world, I don't know for sure). But worth a try.

Hope it help.


----------



## bearFNF

brunk said:


> I can echo similar experiences, but the main reason is for prolonging the life of your gear. Peace of mind is a wonderful thing in regards to power, especially with winter around the corner...


 
  
 Ditto here, we get a lot of brown outs and outages.  I have an APC J15 for the main system and everything else on UPS w/AVR.  It's amazing the pucker factor you get when the power blinks and your speakers pop on and off at volume.  Not to mention the frustration with all the clocks resetting and the movie you are trying to watch just going away and having the start from the beginning on the DVD/Blu-ray player.


----------



## Pustik

What do you guys think of DHC Complement SP Cable - Pure OCC Silver Peptide LitzDHC?
  
 http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=113


----------



## brunk

pustik said:


> What do you guys think of DHC Complement SP Cable - Pure OCC Silver Peptide LitzDHC?
> 
> http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=113


 
  
 I think the price will make for a nice down-payment for STAX or a GSX mkII in my opinion...


----------



## Pudu

We lose power 5 - 10 times a day, everyday. My stove clock hasn't stopped blinking since I moved here a year ago.


----------



## philo50

pudu said:


> We lose power 5 - 10 times a day, everyday. My stove clock hasn't stopped blinking since I moved here a year ago.


 
  
 haha


----------



## songmic

dopaminer said:


> Come now, HOW could it look cooler than this ADL iHP-35Hx, or whatever it`s called ? ! ? !   Actually, doesn`t it look exactly the same?
> 
> But seriously, as I mentioned I just got The Headphones, and the dac, 2 days ago so I haven`t been able to form any nuanced opinion of the sound of the hd800s, let alone the stock cable.  It was completely a visually aesthetic purchase.  I can comment that the connectors feel very high quality and snapped into place reassuringly, and the fabric weave on the housing is tight and very slippery.  I am looking forward to putting the stock cables back on in a few months, once I get my hardware sorted out, and my ripping (my CD-to-FLAC ripping is totally hit or miss, for some reason and probably always has been, but I didn`t notice because my previous `phones didn`t have this resolving power).  Maybe I will hear a difference then.
> 
> David


 
  
 What makes the iHP-35Hx look cool is its carbon fiber connectors IMO. The premium Black Dragon V2 looks cooler because it has the same cool connectors, plus the Black Dragon logo. 
  
 Yes, the connectors are very high quality, but ultimately it's the cable that makes the largest difference. I was drawn to iHP-35Hx's aesthetics just like you, but to my ears, the iHP-35Hx was "just another pretty face", contrary to what Furutech/ADL advertised. Again, your ears are different from mine so YMMV, you may be able to hear a subtle difference (which I couldn't, not even on my very resolving system of Zana Deux SE).
  
 But why settle for subtle difference when you can get a definite improvement? The Black Dragon V2 did what no other component in my system could do: smoothening the sharp edge off HD800's treble. In my opinion, the HD800 is one of the best headphones in terms of, imaging, detail, resolution... actually it could have been the perfect headphone, had it not been for its overly bright sound signature (at least for my tastes) and its harsh treble. The sibilant, harsh treble of the HD800 makes it fatiguing, and less enjoyable albeit its top-of-the-line technicalities. If these issues could be solved by matching it with proper amps and cables, I dare say the HD800 is the best dynamic transducer headphone in the market today. My maxed-out ZDSE, which is considered one of the best amps for the HD800, made the HD800 a lot more enjoyable by making it warmer sounding (while retaining its clarity/detail/soundstage), but not even the ZDSE could help with the treble issues. Surprisingly, the Black Dragon V2, which is "merely" a cable, did. Not completely, but rather significantly.
  
 If you're buying a cable for aesthetics alone and care less about sound quality, there is a cable that looks even better than the iHP-35Hx or premium Black Dragon, the Stefan AudioArt Endorphin cable. While the iHP-35Hx or premium Black Dragon looks cool at best, the Endorphin cable looks like a real work of art with pristine craftsmanship. The Endorphin cable not only looks the best but offers the best improvement in transparency, resolution, soundstage, etc. However, the HD800 in its stock form is already terrific in these regards, and while one could hope for more, in my opinion the ideal headphone cable is something that improves upon the weak points of the headphone it was designed with rather than boosting what it's already good at. Having extra transparency and detail is of course a good thing, but it's not going to make the nasty treble go away, which is the biggest problem with HD800.
  
 Everything I said above is under the assumption that the HD800 is not modded, such as the Anaxilus mod. Haven't tried the Anax mod myself, but it appears that people are very divided over it. Some saying that it is the perfect solution for making the HD800 less sibilant, while others say that it's not that effective and it comes at a price of having less transparency. If the Anax mod indeed gets rid of treble (hurray!), but also reduces transparency and detail (d'oh!), then I think the best way is to use the Black Dragon V2. At least the Black Dragon V2 doesn't reduce the HD800's transparency, perhaps even improving it too.


----------



## Dopaminer

Thanks Songmic, that was interesting.  The ADL cable I got (which you used to own) was in a case of specially -discounted cable and connectors in a shop in Akihabara here in Tokyo, and hugely discounted, so I splurged on impulse. I love the look of it, but have no idea if it`s affecting the sound I`m hearing.   
 I`ve just begun my HD800 amp search, and the desktop tube amp you have looks very interesting.  Of course, some of the local Japanese tube amp makers have interesting items as well, sometimes quite inexpensive, too.  (I have the ALO Continental V2).  A serious cable investigation will come later, for me.  
 How do you like the ZDSE?  And did you get it in Korea ?
 d


----------



## songmic

dopaminer said:


> Thanks Songmic, that was interesting.  The ADL cable I got (which you used to own) was in a case of specially -discounted cable and connectors in a shop in Akihabara here in Tokyo, and hugely discounted, so I splurged on impulse. I love the look of it, but have no idea if it`s affecting the sound I`m hearing.
> I`ve just begun my HD800 amp search, and the desktop tube amp you have looks very interesting.  Of course, some of the local Japanese tube amp makers have interesting items as well, sometimes quite inexpensive, too.  (I have the ALO Continental V2).  A serious cable investigation will come later, for me.
> How do you like the ZDSE?  And did you get it in Korea ?
> d


 
  
 The ZDSE is a magnificent amp, but there are other amps that sound excellent with the HD800 for less money. Since the HD800 is an amp-picky headphone, you'll need to spend at least $1K on the amp to squeeze its potential out. If you don't mind used amps (I don't), then I'm sure you can get these at a much less expensive price. Here are some of the amps that are known to drive HD800 particularly well for their price...
  
 Decware CSP3
 Violectric V200
 Woo Audio WA22
 RSA Raptor
 SPL Phonitor
 Analog Design Labs Svetlana 2
 EC Super 7


----------



## songmic

dopaminer said:


> Thanks Songmic, that was interesting.  The ADL cable I got (which you used to own) was in a case of specially -discounted cable and connectors in a shop in Akihabara here in Tokyo, and hugely discounted, so I splurged on impulse. I love the look of it, but have no idea if it`s affecting the sound I`m hearing.
> I`ve just begun my HD800 amp search, and the desktop tube amp you have looks very interesting.  Of course, some of the local Japanese tube amp makers have interesting items as well, sometimes quite inexpensive, too.  (I have the ALO Continental V2).  A serious cable investigation will come later, for me.
> How do you like the ZDSE?  And did you get it in Korea ?
> d


 
  
 To tell you the truth, my ADL was purchased in Tokyo too. Like you, I also decided to buy it on impulse, because it was much cheaper than buying it from other countries (I saw the same ADL cable being charged for nearly 2-3 times its price in other countries' websites). I think those Furutech connectors alone were sold for more expensive price in the United States than the price of the finished cable in Japan, so there is no doubt it was an excellent deal. I recently ordered a quad of Furutech connectors for a new pair of interconnect cables I have in mind, and buying them directly from Japan was much less expensive than having a third party order them from elsewhere.
  
 Where do you live in Tokyo, by the way? Are you Japanese, or a 外国人 living in Japan?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

songmic said:


> The ZDSE is a magnificent amp, but there are other amps that sound excellent with the HD800 for less money. Since the HD800 is an amp-picky headphone, you'll need to spend at least $1K on the amp to squeeze its potential out. If you don't mind used amps (I don't), then I'm sure you can get these at a much less expensive price. Here are some of the amps that are known to drive HD800 particularly well for their price...
> 
> Decware CSP3
> Violectric V200
> ...


 
  
 not entirely sure the RSA raptor belongs on that list...


----------



## Dopaminer

I live on the Yamanote loop line in Sugamo; I am 外国人。。。  
 Tonight after work I found a shop in Ochanomizu that had racks and racks of used tube amps, some just gorgeous. . .   I`d love to get Woo, but I`m sure the mark-up will be killer here. I`ll probably go Japanese. . . 
 Regarding the cable, I`m thinking about getting this:


----------



## songmic

dopaminer said:


> I live on the Yamanote loop line in Sugamo; I am 外国人。。。
> Tonight after work I found a shop in Ochanomizu that had racks and racks of used tube amps, some just gorgeous. . .   I`d love to get Woo, but I`m sure the mark-up will be killer here. I`ll probably go Japanese. . .
> Regarding the cable, I`m thinking about getting this:


 
  
 That is the dual 3-pin XLR version of the iHP-35Hx. Moon Audio's Premium Black Dragon V2 cable also offers the same XLR connectors at extra cost. I strongly recommend that you do yourself a favor, save on cash, and go for the Black Dragon V2 with those 3-pin XLR connectors. Those connectors are very expensive (they are the connectors that I ordered for my interconnect cables), and I don't think they do justice to the iHP-35Hx which didn't show much improvement in single-ended version.
  
 The HD800 does benefit from a balanced amp for sure, and using a balanced cable will ensure you'll get the best out of them. Of the amps I listed above, the only amps that have balanced outputs are WA22 and Super 7. However, the balanced output of Super 7 is a 4-pin XLR so you wouldn't be able to use dual 3-pin XLR's. The WA22 is one of the few tube headphone amps in the market that is fully balanced.
  
 The WA22 costs less than $2,000 (but more if you add extra tubes), and you can order it directly from Woo Audio without any mark-ups. You could ask them to declare a small value on the package, so that it ends up in your front porch without any hassle with customs. I haven't heard the WA22 with HD800, but people say that it is one of the warmest and smoothest sounding amps with the HD800, and the best in taking off its harsh treble. Combined with the Black Dragon V2, I think you'll have a very enjoyable headphone system.


----------



## BournePerfect

Are those the Furutech connectors?
  
 -Daniel
  
 edit: Looking at Moon's site, it doesn't look like there's a 4-pin Furutech option.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

WA22!!!
  
 btw so what are those cables called or wahtever off moon audio.
  
 thats kinda what i'm looking for. now that i'll have 2 balanced amps.


----------



## DarKen23

bourneperfect said:


> Are those the Furutech connectors?
> 
> -Daniel
> 
> edit: Looking at Moon's site, it doesn't look like there's a 4-pin Furutech option.


Those are valab xlr rhodium connectors. My interconnects are valab as well


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Here are my TWO charts.  I wanted to ascertain that the chart Sennheiser sent me wasn't a random and arbitrary graph that they manufacture just to satisfy HD800 owners' curiosity.  So, I registered my HD800 with both the Sennheiser Asia and Sennheiser USA websites and requested from both a separate certificate.
  
  
  
  

 [From the Sennheiser USA website]
  
  
  
  
  

 [From the Sennheiser Asia website]


----------



## DarKen23

sp3llv3xit said:


> Here are my TWO charts.  I wanted to ascertain that the chart Sennheiser sent me wasn't a random and arbitrary graph that they manufacture just to satisfy HD800 owners' curiosity.  So, I registered my HD800 with both the Sennheiser Asia and Sennheiser USA websites and requested from both a separate certificate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for that . I never thought that "maybe" it could just be a random graph.


----------



## Sanlitun

Anyone know where we can get the Furutech / ADL iHP-35Hx Cables in North America?


----------



## Pustik

Guys just like I promised, I received my hd 800 today. Serial number 24***, box is the same as the old ones. I'll try to get my hands on the 25*** soon.


----------



## Dopaminer

sp3llv3xit said:


> Here are my TWO charts.  I wanted to ascertain that the chart Sennheiser sent me wasn't a random and arbitrary graph that they manufacture just to satisfy HD800 owners' curiosity.  So, I registered my HD800 with both the Sennheiser Asia and Sennheiser USA websites and requested from both a separate certificate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Stoids

Glad to see high praise for the Black Dragon cable. I actually have one shipping to me from a member here. Thought it would be a good investment. Going to be my LAST UPGRADE (caps for emphasis to myself) for a while. I binged crazy hard in a week's time. Never again.... (my wallet hopes)


----------



## MIKELAP

silversurfer616 said:


> I use the Pioneer SX 1010 and it transforms the HD800....ah,well,however you want to put it,it is just a really good synergy and the WA6 pales in comparison.
> Also,the Pioneer has excellent tone controls.


 
  
 Tone controls...........


----------



## Dopaminer

bourneperfect said:


> Are those the Furutech connectors?
> 
> -Daniel
> 
> edit: Looking at Moon's site, it doesn't look like there's a 4-pin Furutech option.


 
  
 Yes; it`s a screenshot from the Furutech homepage.  And I couldn`t find any 4-pin version on either their English or Japanese websites, which is disappointing.  I`m thinking about just buying these connectors and converting the cable I have.  Is this possible?  Just cut the 1/4 inch plug off and rewire the L and R wires to the dual-3 pin XLRs ?????


----------



## Jd007

dopaminer said:


> Yes; it`s a screenshot from the Furutech homepage.  And I couldn`t find any 4-pin version on either their English or Japanese websites, which is disappointing.  I`m thinking about just buying these connectors and converting the cable I have.  Is this possible?  Just cut the 1/4 inch plug off and rewire the L and R wires to the dual-3 pin XLRs ?????


 
  
 that's because the 4pin xlr connectors with carbon fiber and rhodium plating don't exist. 4pin xlr is not really a standard and only used by some high end headphone equipment, so its much harder to find connectors for them. i think neutrik is the only one who makes them if im not mistaken.


----------



## Arcamera

jsgraha said:


> I think it's something that you have to try for yourself.
> My suggestion is to try to listen on different time of the day.
> If there's different experience, then you might go down the road finding power conditioner.
> 
> ...


 
  


darken23 said:


> Im using a APC H10. Imo, power management is something you should seriously consider if you've got spikes and sags. I have electrical issues in my home-particularly my room, lights shutting on and off on its own as well as other phenomenons. The APC H10 is a line conditioner as well as a voltage regulator and it does a fantastic job given those mysterious problems vanished. Its gives you peace of mind knowing that your investments are protected and fed a clean consistent power. As for SQ, it provided a better blackground, you wont get mind blowing improvements.


 
  
  
  
 Thanks for your thoughts. I'm thinking right now the next upgrade I should do for the HD800 is my amp-- I've been happy with the Woo WA3, but by all accounts an amp upgrade would let the Senns show more of what they can do. Among other options, I'm thinking of the WA2...


----------



## Dopaminer

Yes WA2 looks awesome.  I really want to go fully balanced; the Vioelectric looks great with 3-pin XLR inputs and 4-pin headphone output.  WA22 is more than I want to spend, I think (though that may change)  Is anyone running their HD800s through an approx. $1K fully balanced tube amp ???   

 Also, regarding the Furutech XLR 3-pin carbon fiber connectors, the price for the set of 4 ( males and females, to make a 1/4 adaptor) is around $300 here in Tokyo, which is crazy because the XLR cable set from Furutech is also around 300 buck here.  And then I found this:


----------



## Pudu

Arc, for what it's worth, my descending order of preference for the WA2 is : T1 > D7K > W3K > HD800 ( yes, we have the same collection of cans )


----------



## drez

Nice looking 4 pin XLR's are hard to come by - I think it's only the Neutrik range.


----------



## Arcamera

pudu said:


> Arc, for what it's worth, my descending order of preference for the WA2 is : T1 > D7K > W3K > HD800 ( yes, we have the same collection of cans
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hmm, interesting. (Good taste btw ) How do you find the HD800 comes up short with the WA2 compared to the other cans? Thanks. (Also good to know the D7K and W3K can work with the amp).


----------



## Pudu

I mean, objectively it sounds really good - they are both quality pieces of kit. But the WA2 doesn't play to the strengths of the Senns to the same extent as the others.

Sorry for the short answer - gotta get the kids into bed.


----------



## Arcamera

pudu said:


> I mean, objectively it sounds really good - they are both quality pieces of kit. But the WA2 doesn't play to the strengths of the Senns to the same extent as the others.
> 
> Sorry for the short answer - gotta get the kids into bed.


 
  
 Gotcha.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

pudu said:


> I mean, objectively it sounds really good - they are both quality pieces of kit. But the WA2 doesn't play to the strengths of the Senns to the same extent as the others.
> 
> Sorry for the short answer - gotta get the kids into bed.


 
  
 i felt the same way until i heard the HD 800 with the GEC 6AS7G, it was a huge difference, the WA2 sounded like a much more expensive amp.


----------



## Pudu

Okay, to expand a bit - for me the Senns are about detail and staging, whereas the Woo makes music lush and musical. The T1 manages to bring that out of the woo better - the tunes seem to flow more. The Senns already have such a huge soundstage that the woo does nothing for them on that count but makes the T1 sound just about perfect to my ears - sometimes I think the 800s sound unnaturally big. 

It may also just be personal bias. I still prefer both the T1 and the W3k to the 800s even when using amps that respectively flatter each headphone the best in my opinion.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

it probably is just preference, i know i change my opinion of hd 800 all the time 
  
 the T1 is my favorite with WA2, but i did not like it with WA6-SE, at all. 
  
 i did not like the HD 800 with the WA2 until i got those GEC tubes, they used to sound veiled and boring sounding. 
  
 i haven't heard the W3000 yet, only the W1000 and W5000, but as of now, no audio technica would ever come anywhere close to being preferred to the HD 800, on any system.


----------



## Pudu

dubstep girl said:


> i felt the same way until i heard the HD 800 with the GEC 6AS7G, it was a huge difference, the WA2 sounded like a much more expensive amp.




That's why I have this lovely,






no, I mean this lovely


----------



## Pudu

dubstep girl said:


> it probably is just preference, i know i change my opinion of hd 800 all the time
> 
> the T1 is my favorite with WA2, but i did not like it with WA6-SE, at all.
> 
> ...




To be fair I really did *not *like the W3K or the T1 on the V200.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

pudu said:


> That's why I have this lovely,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Zana Deux!
  
 have u tried it with the sophia 6SL7, the sound is identical to the WA2 with the GEC tubes, like 100% identical basically.
  
 i found it too fast for my tastes with HD 800 though with  the tubes you have right now.


----------



## Arcamera

*That's why I have this lovely*
  
 LOL


----------



## BournePerfect

The ZDSE only sounds identical to ANYTHING with untrained ears. It's better than the WA5LE in all areas too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dopaminer

pudu said:


> That's why I have this lovely,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd like some time alone in a quiet room with both of you lovelies


----------



## DarKen23

dopaminer said:


> pudu said:
> 
> 
> > That's why I have this lovely,
> ...


----------



## metalgear

Been running my HD800 off the Vioelectric V200 and Marantz KI Pearl SACD Player for a year now.
  
 Decided to try something new and unplugged my old friend the PS Audio GCHA which has been relegated to PC gaming duties (yeah! audiophile gaming) and was pleasantly surprised to find that it puts up well against the V200. Definitely more forgiving but it seems to bring out something new from the HD800 - more airiness in the treble, faster bass and aoverall  wider soundstage,
  
 If anyone is struggling with finding something to mate the HD800 with, the GCHA is an option... Its no longer in production and can be gotten at pretty good prices in the classifieds.


----------



## navigavi

metalgear said:


> Been running my HD800 off the Vioelectric V200 and Marantz KI Pearl SACD Player for a year now.
> 
> Decided to try something new and unplugged my old friend the PS Audio GCHA which has been relegated to PC gaming duties (yeah! audiophile gaming) and was pleasantly surprised to find that it puts up well against the V200. Definitely more forgiving but it seems to bring out something new from the HD800 - more airiness in the treble, faster bass and aoverall  wider soundstage,
> 
> If anyone is struggling with finding something to mate the HD800 with, the GCHA is an option... Its no longer in production and can be gotten at pretty good prices in the classifieds.


 
  

  
 Using the violectric stack myself now, with the hd800's. Gaming, music listening via Foobar 2000 and watching hd movies is a true delight


----------



## DarKen23

navigavi said:


> metalgear said:
> 
> 
> > Been running my HD800 off the Vioelectric V200 and Marantz KI Pearl SACD Player for a year now.
> ...


I love the violectric's form factor, big and bold sound from a small enclosure.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

darken23 said:


> I love the violectric's form factor, big and bold sound from a small enclosure.


 
  
  
 wow its smaller than i thought looking at those pictures


----------



## DarKen23

dubstep girl said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > I love the violectric's form factor, big and bold sound from a small enclosure.
> ...


It really is, I wonder if it's even more so than my Yulong stack..


----------



## DarKen23

what a quiet day...


----------



## silversurfer616

Off work today and enjoying my new Crack with Speedball upgrade!
Surprisingly good with the HD800 and the 3D quality is outstanding.
Now I have to sell my WA6 and get some tube upgrades for the Crack.
Does it ever end?


----------



## philo50

silversurfer616 said:


> Off work today and enjoying my new Crack with Speedball upgrade!
> Surprisingly good with the HD800 and the 3D quality is outstanding.
> Now I have to sell my WA6 and get some tube upgrades for the Crack.
> Does it ever end?


 
  
 nope....never does.....


----------



## DarKen23

silversurfer616 said:


> Off work today and enjoying my new Crack with Speedball upgrade!
> Surprisingly good with the HD800 and the 3D quality is outstanding.
> Now I have to sell my WA6 and get some tube upgrades for the Crack.
> Does it ever end?


Wait till you add this to your crack http://www.khozmo.com/balanced_stereo.html or a "lightspeed"


----------



## silversurfer616

Will think about it.
But seriously,the HD800 sounds really,really good with the Crack and once I got that GEC brown base or whatever it should be even better.
Only 195.- in the classifieds.....a steal,basically!
Takes about 7 days from the US to NZ....waiting!!!


----------



## LugBug1

silversurfer616 said:


> Will think about it.
> But seriously,the HD800 sounds really,really good with the Crack and once I got that GEC brown base or whatever it should be even better.
> Only 195.- in the classifieds.....a steal,basically!
> Takes about 7 days from the US to NZ....waiting!!!


 
  
 Does it sound better than your SX1010?


----------



## silversurfer616

Both have the same holographic 3D quality and authority(means HD800 sounds not thin but full of power/energy/meaty)but the Crack has the blacker background....deadsilent!
In comparison the WA6 soundstage is wide but has little depth and you know that the HD800 could do with a little more power.
So I am going to sell the WA6(with Sophia Princess and Emission Labs rectifier)as the HD800 is and I guess,always will be my main headphone.


----------



## LugBug1

Good stuff. I really _really_ want to try a crack... I wish they were more popular round my neck of the woods. So I didn't have to build one myself.. 
  
 I'm sure its easy enough but... Kids, time, etc. Plus I severely burnt myself ironing a shirt once,
  
 Is a soldering iron more user friendly? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Jokes aside, I know exactly where you are coming from in regards to the 3d imaging. Thats why I've never looked back once I heard what the older amps could do with power hungry can's. In that respect the crack must be a fabulous deal because none of my previous dedicated hp amps (all mid end) could hold a flame to my better vintage amps.


----------



## silversurfer616

You are right once you have heard this holographic soundstage(like "Avatar" for the ears)it is impossible to go back to a flat soundstage.


----------



## RedBull

I can listen to flat soundstage, but just for short time variation. 
But hd800 out of the head experience is really addictive.


----------



## DarKen23

redbull said:


> I can listen to flat soundstage, but just for short time variation.
> But hd800 out of the head experience is really addictive.


+1, I think that's what I love and say "ahhh" every time I use the hd800.


----------



## RedBull

Try hd800 with movies, you'll say WOW 
The sound layering really helps there.


----------



## Pudu

But they are rubbish for gaming.


----------



## LugBug1

I beg to differ... I wear them when I'm playing chess. Bit of light Mozart helps me concentrate.


----------



## drez

pudu said:


> But they are rubbish for gaming.


 
  
 Pls explain


----------



## James-uk

I use mine for gaming and i suspect he means they sound rubbish because of the heavy compression used for most games SFX and music.


----------



## Alucard-

I got old used pair of #18xx hd800 I bought a few months ago. I previously tried them a few times at bay bloor radio but could never justify the 1600+tax retail. Though my first impression with the large compared to my hd600's always stuck with me. But I never listened to them long enough to really adjust to them. When I got them I couldn't listen to them too long with fatigue. I kept having to take naps for the first week or two if I listened to them for too long, and they bugged my ears abit. I know the phones we well burned in since they were old. So it took my brain over a month, maybe closer to two to really burn in to the hd800, where they don't bother me anymore. It makes me think everyone should give the hd800 a good solid few months before they decide on mods/cables to let their brain adjust.
  
 I went to a live show last night, and I kept thinking all night I wish I had my hd800s' since they make vocals and instruments so much easier to separate so you can always understand all the words.
  
 I ended up getting a audio-gd 10.32ES2 for my HD800/speakers but only have the stock single ended cable. It was a big upgrade from my audio-gd original compass, which I was in a ignorance is bliss state with. I tried balanced vs single ended with my hd600 with the same cable on the ES2, it's alot louder, and alittle cleaner, but it's not that big of a difference. I'm usually kinda performance per dollar oriented, and looking for a 4pin xlr cable hd800 cable. I don't want to spend that much, since it seems ridiculus to spend close to more then I did on the ES2. So wonder if the stock cable is worth balancing? I've never really done soldering and would probably have to find someone to do it. Or if the is a budget cable someone sells I missed? It's tempting to make my old cable, but I'm probably sure I'd mess it up the first time.


----------



## Pudu

lugbug1 said:


> I beg to differ... I wear them when I'm playing chess. Bit of light Mozart helps me concentrate.





Haha... touché.





drez said:


> Pls explain





The soundstage is absolutely bizarre with three dimensional sound placement. It's impossible to tell from what direction the sounds are supposed to be coming. Worst cans I've ever tried for gaming.



Though I'll give them a second chance with chess!


----------



## drez

pudu said:


> The soundstage is absolutely bizarre with three dimensional sound placement. It's impossible to tell from what direction the sounds are supposed to be coming. Worst cans I've ever tried for gaming.
> 
> Though I'll give them a second chance with chess!


 
  
 Good to know (I don't play any games with decent directional sound, BF3 doesn't count), BTW what do you find works well for FPS gaming headphone?


----------



## Pudu

880s!


----------



## kn19h7

pudu said:


> The soundstage is absolutely bizarre with three dimensional sound placement. It's impossible to tell from what direction the sounds are supposed to be coming. Worst cans I've ever tried for gaming.


 
 Just curious, were you using it with tube amp?


----------



## drez

pudu said:


> 880s!


 
  
 Awesome, I might have to get a pair for gaming.


----------



## BournePerfect

Insanity. The HD800s are simply the best cans ever made for gaming-especially competitive gaming. Others I've tried for gaming are Pro 2900s,  DT880s, DT 990s, T1s, AD2000s, K702s, D2000s, AD700s...nothing comes close. I do REALLY like both the T1s and Pro 2900s for games/movies though.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## RedBull

Daniel, is ad2000 goos for movies? tell me your comment.


----------



## BournePerfect

Been awhile...mainly used them for gaming, but preferred the K702/T1/Pro 2900/HD800 over them in that regard. The AT doesn't have that big of a soundstage, which is where the others excel at imo. The mids are so upfront that it works well with some movies, and great for dialogue-heavy scenes. Not my highest recommendation by any stretch-but still possibly my second favorite dynamic for music. 
  
 On a budget-I still think the Pro 2900 is one of the best all around headphones under a grand-great for most music genres-and absolutely stunning for games and movies. A complete bargain at it's price imo-despite the Ultrasone hate around here. Definitely needs a decent amp and some burn in though.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Fegefeuer

bourneperfect said:


> Insanity. The HD800s are simply the best cans ever made for gaming-especially competitive gaming. Others I've tried for gaming are Pro 2900s,  DT880s, DT 990s, T1s, AD2000s, K702s, D2000s, AD700s...nothing comes close. I do REALLY like both the T1s and Pro 2900s for games/movies though.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Absolutely agree. No offense but the sad part is that guy A spouts nonsense with no real reasoning or gear/setup, possible software solutions like CMSS-3D/SBX/Dolby Headphone or plain stereo , not even mentioning the games he used on which platform and the guy B downright believes him and takes interest in DT880s for gaming needs as supposedly it does better than the HD800s.
  
 I have a hard time deciding which part is worse. 
  


bourneperfect said:


> On a budget-I still think the Pro 2900 is one of the best all around headphones under a grand-great for most music genres-and absolutely stunning for games and movies. A complete bargain at it's price imo-despite the Ultrasone hate around here. Definitely needs a decent amp and some burn in though.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 I actually bought the Pro 2900 based on your experiences and agree on them being quite exciting for gaming. However I don't agree with you on their mids.


----------



## Sorrodje

bourneperfect said:


> On a budget-I still think the Pro 2900 is one of the best all around headphones under a grand-great for most music genres-and absolutely stunning for games and movies. A complete bargain at it's price imo-despite the Ultrasone hate around here. Definitely needs a decent amp and some burn in though.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
  
 I think Ultrasone HFI2400 should be seriously considered too for the same purpose and even cheaper than pro2900.


----------



## BournePerfect

fegefeuer said:


> Absolutely agree. No offense but the sad part is that guy A spouts nonsense with no real reasoning or gear/setup, possible software solutions like CMSS-3D/SBX/Dolby Headphone or plain stereo , not even mentioning the games he used on which platform and the guy B downright believes him and takes interest in DT880s for gaming needs as supposedly it does better than the HD800s.
> 
> I have a hard time deciding which part is worse.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Keep in mind almost all of my Pro 2900 comments were made prior to owning the HD800s and T1s. They were primarily in context with my experiences with the K702 and DT880s and (ugh) Pro 900s back then. I still think they are a huge bang for the buck, and have some of the best surround effects I've ever heard in pure stereo even. Guess the Pro Logic + goes well with my ears.
  


sorrodje said:


> I think Ultrasone HFI2400 should be seriously considered too for the same purpose and even cheaper than pro2900.


 
  
 I've often heard this...would like to try one sometime.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## dukeskd

Have to agree that the HD800s aren't great for gaming, especially when trying to identify the location of sounds. I would think this is a by-product of the artificially enhanced sound stage.


----------



## Sorrodje

bourneperfect said:


> I've often heard this...would like to try one sometime.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
  
 From What I know (never tried myself pro2900 unfortunately) the hfi2400 is a bit darker and a bit less detailed/refined than pro2900 but shares overally the same abilities and nature for Films/Gaming and some genre of Music . I really miss mine sometimes . Sooooo fun way of sounding and so stunning ability to reproduce film noises


----------



## Pudu

bourneperfect said:


> Insanity. The HD800s are simply the best cans ever made for gaming-especially competitive gaming. Others I've tried for gaming are Pro 2900s,  DT880s, DT 990s, T1s, AD2000s, K702s, D2000s, AD700s...nothing comes close. I do REALLY like both the T1s and Pro 2900s for games/movies though.
> 
> -Daniel




See, I thought they would be brilliant! I was all psyched to enjoy an expansive stage and crystal clear sounds. And that was all there, but the 3D positioning was utter rubbish. It was so bad I finally made a game of it - I would close my eyes and try to guess from which direction a sound was coming and almost always got it wrong. It made me sad. How sad? As sad as ... well as sad as someone having their own opinion about headphones. Seriously, that sad. 


I used the 880s for a couple of years, then spent almost a year with the PC360s until I could stand the comfort level (specifically lack thereof) no longer, and even used AD1000x for a bit, but I went back to the 880s. For me they provide the best combination of 3D reproduction, comfort, detail and range.


----------



## LugBug1

dukeskd said:


> Have to agree that the HD800s aren't great for gaming, especially when trying to identify the location of sounds. I would think this is a by-product of the artificially enhanced sound stage.


 
  
 Would you care to explain how the soundstage is 'artificially enhanced'? 
  
 If that is the case, what would a 'natural soundstage' sound like? More closed in? More condensed? 
  
 If a headphone is to replicate speakers or live music then a large soundstage is very important imo. 
  
 A small soundstage for me would be more 'artificial' in that sense. Especially when most music is produced and mixed using speakers. If the mixing was done in a small cupboard then yes a small condensed soundstage might work better 
  
 The most general consensus of the HD800's, even if peeps like them or not - is that they are the 'imaging kings'. Imaging is one of the most important attributes of a headphone. It's were instruments or vocals appear to be. 
 A headphone that I would agree was artificially enhanced in the soundstage would be the early K701/2. The image here is stretched from left to right and although this can be a fun and unique quality (perhaps fun for films or games), its not very realistic, as the centre of the image becomes too thin and focus is lost to the sides. The HD800's on the other hand are not like that at all. Everything is centred with only far left or right sounds produced that _are_ far left or right in the mix. 
 The Senn's soundstage is 'large' or 'big', but it's not stretched or squashed. Its really quite natural imo, or as natural as I've heard from a headphone. I tend to describe the HD800's soundstage as very bubble like. A big bubble. It has to be a big bubble so that it can fit over your head  
  
 All of the top Senn's have the same imaging ime. Only everything is bigger with the HD800's.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lugbug1 said:


> I beg to differ... I wear them when I'm playing chess. Bit of light Mozart helps me concentrate.


 
  




  
 i do the chess and headphones thing too!!


----------



## BournePerfect

pudu said:


> See, I thought they would be brilliant! I was all psyched to enjoy an expansive stage and crystal clear sounds. And that was all there, but the 3D positioning was utter rubbish. It was so bad I finally made a game of it - I would close my eyes and try to guess from which direction a sound was coming and almost always got it wrong. It made me sad. How sad? As sad as ... well as sad as someone having their own opinion about headphones. Seriously, that sad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Keep in mind I only use stereo with the HD800s as I find it FAR superior than Dolby Headphone for gaming. I used to be a big fan of DH-but with a proper dac, coupled with the HD800s cavernous soundstage-it simply trumped the DH processing which to me sounds completely fake now-cheesey reverb and limited ss ime, in comparison.
  


lugbug1 said:


> Would you care to explain how the soundstage is 'artificially enhanced'?
> 
> If that is the case, what would a 'natural soundstage' sound like? More closed in? More condensed?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep. Yep. Yep.... 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

bourneperfect said:


> Keep in mind I only use stereo with the HD800s as I find it FAR superior than Dolby Headphone for gaming. I used to be a big fan of DH-but with a proper dac, coupled with the HD800s cavernous soundstage-it simply trumped the DH processing which to me sounds completely fake now-cheesey reverb and limited ss ime, in comparison.
> 
> 
> Yep. Yep. Yep....
> ...


 
  
  
 the cavernous soundstage title belongs to the HE-500 with pleathers


----------



## LugBug1

dubstep girl said:


> i do the chess and headphones thing too!!


 
  
  


bourneperfect said:


> Yep. Yep. Yep....
> 
> -Daniel


 
  





 cheers to you both lovely head-fiers


----------



## BournePerfect

dubstep girl said:


> the cavernous soundstage title belongs to the HE-500 with pleathers


 
  
  
 Stop posting and go sell that WA2 already. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dubstep Girl

bourneperfect said:


> Stop posting and go sell that WA2 already.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 working on that.


----------



## BournePerfect




----------



## Sorrodje

I' don't own myself any Summit-fi amp or dac but I really can feel HD800 sounstage as cavernous too . Differences between mixes becomes obvious too. Sometimes music come from My nose , sometimes Music comes from a large and deep area with the soloist quite near and orchestra well layered beyond. 
  
 Nevertheless, I haven't compared to a Beyerdynamic T1 or Hifiman HE500 that are often considered as kings of 3D Soundstage.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sorrodje said:


> I' don't own myself any Summit-fi amp or dac but I really can feel HD800 sounstage as cavernous too . Differences between becomes obvious too. Sometimes music come from My nose , sometimes Music comes from a large and deep area with the soloist quite near and orchestra well layered beyond.
> 
> Nevertheless, I haven't compared to a Beyerdynamic T1 or Hifiman HE500 that are often considered as kings of 3D Soundstage.


 
  
 he-500 isn't 3d imo. planars dont have that good of a soundstage. u have to hear he-500 with pleathers to see what "cavernous means", its not wide and spacious. but rather resonant and echoey like in a cave. 
  
 i personally LOVE that coloration in the HE-500, it fits electronic music so well and for a headphone thats so forgiving in the treble, manages to be so beautifully extended and so airy in its presentation. but it is a cavernous sound once you hear it.
  
 the T1 has a smaller soundstage than hd 800 but still very good, and its also really really good at imaging, as is the hd 800. the hd 800 is just wide and expansive but doesn't have that cavernous quality to it.


----------



## BournePerfect

Agreed-I was more thinking cavernous as 'gigantic', rather than a resonant cave. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Jd007

having difficulty pinpointing sound directions in games can mostly be attributed to poor 3d virtual surround implementation. i have used dolby headphones as well as cmss-3d and both pretty much suck in most games. especially dolby headphones, which just makes everything echo-ish and there is no added sense of positional cues at all (compared to no external DSP just stereo output from game engine). in some games the effects are better. i would not blame any headphones for this as it is probably a software issue.


----------



## Sorrodje

Thanks for explanations Dubstep-Girl.  Indeed , HD800 soundstage is the most gigantic I heard to date. Gigantic in both depth and width.  For example and besides classical music that's so perfectly presented by HD800 , listening to Some Electro like Burial or Soular Order's one is extremely immersive and lively IMO.


----------



## Sorrodje

.


----------



## LugBug1

I loved the HE500 for electronic music for the reasons DG has just explained. The Soundstage was a bit pillarbox for me though. It was wider than it was tall. I always used the velours just for that little bit more air.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

lugbug1 said:


> I loved the HE500 for electronic music for the reasons DG has just explained. The Soundstage was a bit pillarbox for me though. It was wider than it was tall. I always used the velours just for that little bit more air.


 
  
  
 i do not use velours on HE-500 or HE-6, i just find that it makes them more neutral sounding, but i already have beyerdynamic T1 and HD 800, so i just use pleathers. for someone who only has HE-500 or HE-6 and a wide collection of music, the velours are definitely the better choice. or also if you just prefer the cleaner presentation of the velours.


----------



## LugBug1

dubstep girl said:


> i do not use velours on HE-500 or HE-6, i just find that it makes them more neutral sounding, but i already have beyerdynamic T1 and HD 800, so i just use pleathers. for someone who only has HE-500 or HE-6 and a wide collection of music, the velours are definitely the better choice. or also if you just prefer the cleaner presentation of the velours.


 
  
 Yeah at the time I had 2 headphones. The LCD2 and the HE500, so I wanted one to be a bit more airy and neutral. 
  
 For anyone considering a high end headphone for electronic music the HE500 would be right up there as a recommendation. They give a very compact, punchy 'cavernous' sound. As well as the planar liquid goodness! Very fast for repetitive beats and they have a nice subtle mid bass hump.
  
 Or if you tend to listen to more ambient style electronic music then I'd recommend the Senn's. BT, James Blake etc sound amazing with the larger soundstage.


----------



## Sorrodje

> For anyone considering a high end headphone for electronic music the HE500 would be right up there as a recommendation. They give a very compact, punchy 'cavernous' sound. As well as the planar liquid goodness! Very fast for repetitive beats and they have a nice subtle mid bass hump.


 
  
  
 Despite I really dislike he400, I'm indeed still curious about HE500 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Though, My Ultrasone does well the job when I want Compact and punchy sound for electronic or other musics. And when I want to be isolated of course.


----------



## LugBug1

sorrodje said:


> Despite I really dislike he400, I'm indeed still curious about HE500
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Havent heard the HE400 bud.. But I would defo still own the 500's if I could afford too. I'll say it again- best treble I've heard in a headphone yet. Purist's may disagree but for me it was soooo sweet!


----------



## dukeskd

@LugBug1:
 If the sound stage isn't exaggerated, how come my Sony MDR-7506/EX-500 (both ~$100) image better whilst gaming or watching a movie?
  
 I believe when gaming it is essential to pinpoint from where a sound is coming from yet the HD800 have a weakness in this regard which I predict is from the widened sound stage that Sennheiser created by placing the driver at an angle and a decent distance from the ear.
  
 For casual music listening, I believe the sound stage is wonderful and it was the first thing that wowed me about the HD800 but not so much when pinpoint imaging is necessary.


----------



## DarKen23

I found the HD800 to be amazing when gaming


----------



## LugBug1

dukeskd said:


> I believe when gaming it is essential to pinpoint from where a sound is coming from yet the HD800 have a weakness in this regard which I predict is from the widened sound stage that Sennheiser created by placing the driver at an angle and a decent distance from the ear.


 
 How can you pinpoint where a sound is meant to come from with any headphone? Is there a reference?
  
 Could it be that you "can't handle the truth" with the Senn's?
  
 (pic of Jack Nicholson) 
  
 Not disputing what you are saying my friend.. Only you aren't putting a very objective case forward 
  
 I'm drunk. I'll catch this up in the morning


----------



## palmfish

With loudspeakers, the sense of spaciousness is the result of early and late reflections arriving at the ear from different directions and with different delay. I can only guess that the design of the cup (size, shape, materials) all play a role in the HD800's illusion of soundstage.


----------



## DarKen23

palmfish said:


> With loudspeakers, the sense of spaciousness is the result of early and late reflections arriving at the ear from different directions and with different delay. I can only guess that the design of the cup (size, shape, materials) all play a role in the HD800's illusion of soundstage.


I like illusions


----------



## dukeskd

Yes I agree with you palmfish. And when you have owned the SR-009, which in my book is the king of imaging and has a very natural sound stage, the negatives of the HD800 come out quite clearly. This was done when I owned both and compared them side by side. Interestingly enough, another headphone that shares the exaggerated width of the sound stage that the HD800 has is the JVC DX1000.


----------



## Dopaminer

darken23 said:


> I like illusions


 
  
 We`re talking about the simulation of live sounds, so the illusion is everything; there is nothing else.


----------



## BournePerfect

There is no fork. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 -Daniel


----------



## RedBull

bourneperfect said:


> Been awhile...mainly used them for gaming, but preferred the K702/T1/Pro 2900/HD800 over them in that regard. The AT doesn't have that big of a soundstage, which is where the others excel at imo. The mids are so upfront that it works well with some movies, and great for dialogue-heavy scenes. Not my highest recommendation by any stretch-but still possibly my second favorite dynamic for music.
> 
> -Daniel




Exactly, ad2k has the sexiest mids i ever heard, but for movies, i doesnt really reveal background crowds noises. i still use it once in a while for movie though, when i want to listen to that wet midrange effect.


----------



## RedBull

Last night i listen to movie with hd800 and lehmann bcl, WOW, that realism and detail i couldn't differentiate with normal sound in daily life, i didnt know where my amp goes. Very convincing. 
it makes my mustang p51 sound very colored, although still quite nice.


----------



## DarKen23

dopaminer said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > I like illusions
> ...


Thanks for clearing up something that was already obvious to me.


----------



## Audio Jester

darken23 said:


> Thanks for clearing up something that was already obvious to me.



Reminds me of this...


----------



## Dopaminer

darken23 said:


> Thanks for clearing up something that was already obvious to me.


 
  
 How did I know what to say ?  Because - the whole thing was written down for me.


----------



## Rasmus

I really enjoy my new HD 800's  Here are some photos


----------



## Dubstep Girl

EXCELLENT PHOTOGRAPHY!!!!
  
 they look very professional and I love how the hd 800 looks in them.


----------



## BobJS

When my wife catches me with them on, she'll often ask if I'm communicating with the mother ship.


----------



## magiccabbage

yes great pics


----------



## BournePerfect

bobjs said:


> When my wife catches me with them on, she'll often ask if I'm communicating with the mother ship.


 
  
  
 lol


----------



## Pudu

bobjs said:


> When my wife catches me with them on, she'll often ask if I'm communicating with the mother ship.






Ya, that was one reason I didn't give them any consideration for a very long time.


----------



## Rasmus

Thanks for the great respons


----------



## wink

Who stole my Sennheiser HD800


----------



## knightboy140

I <3 your signature.


----------



## magiccabbage

anyone know any cheap sites with good deals on hd800?


----------



## Greed

magiccabbage said:


> anyone know any cheap sites with good deals on hd800?


 
  
 Crutchfield usually sells refurbished ones for $1100 or so. Other than that there is always the FS forums.


----------



## Dopaminer

magiccabbage said:


> anyone know any cheap sites with good deals on hd800?


 
  
 This Tokyo company is selling brand new 24xxxxx hd800s for 115,000 yen, or around 1100 USD.  I live in Tokyo and bought from them through Amazon.  I left 5 star approval rating.  All our communication was in English.   Depending on what your customs agents decide to do to you, this has got to be one of the cheapest options.   
  
http://www.guter-preis-jp.com/sennheiser/sennheiser-hd800/#cc-m-product-3702205915
  
 I communicated with the seller on this email:
  
 hl201xsytd4046g@marketplace.amazon.co.jp
  
 Give him a try, his name is Kei


----------



## magiccabbage

thanks guys for the info.


----------



## James-uk

Just discovered Gregory Porter - downloaded the liquid spirit album after hearing him on Jools Holland. I think it's the best sounding album I've heard on the 800s. Stunning production and mastering .


----------



## magiccabbage

james-uk said:


> Just discovered Gregory Porter - downloaded the liquid spirit album after hearing him on Jools Holland. I think it's the best sounding album I've heard on the 800s. Stunning production and mastering .


 
  
 I have his 3 albums, i prefer the other 2 - "Water" and "Be Good" also i seen him live with Roy Hargrove, it was one of the best gigs that i have ever seen.


----------



## BournePerfect

What kind of music is that?
  
 -Daniel


----------



## magiccabbage

bourneperfect said:


> What kind of music is that?
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 amazing stuff -  kinda like Donny Hathaway/ Marvin Gaye with lots of jazzy overtones, the vocals are not as smooth as Marvin though.


----------



## BournePerfect

I'll have to check it out. Thanks.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## James-uk

I will look forward to checking out the other 2 albums . Speaking of well albums that make the HD800 shine , anyone got some recommendations? Maybe an album that could of slipped under the radar.


----------



## Sorrodje

I've got "Liquid Spirit" and "Be good" and I agree with above statement. Overally fabulous albums and that sounds especially good on HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .  
  
  
 Since I have my HD800 I listen massively to Classical and Modern Jazz .. these last days : 
  
  
  

  


  
  
 ... listening to those musics through HD800 is really sublime.


----------



## BournePerfect

james-uk said:


> I will look forward to checking out the other 2 albums . Speaking of well albums that make the HD800 shine , anyone got some recommendations? Maybe an album that could of slipped under the radar.


 
  
  
 Dire Straights/Mark Knopfler_ Private Investigations_
 Radiohead _Best Of_
 R.E.M. _Drive_
  
 -Daniel


----------



## songmic

Dream Theater's latest self-titled album is pretty sick. Sound quality is also quite good for a non-audiophile, rock album.
 HDtracks currently offers a hi-rez version of this album.
https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD016861760465


----------



## Sorrodje

james-uk said:


> I will look forward to checking out the other 2 albums . Speaking of well albums that make the HD800 shine , anyone got some recommendations? Maybe an album that could of slipped under the radar.


 
  
 You can listen to everything produced on some jazz labels like ECM ou ACT for example but most of recent Jazz recordings sound perfectly with my HD800.


----------



## kvtaco17

Just got a pair of HD800's locally new! Man, I've always loved these and I finally own them!


----------



## magiccabbage

kvtaco17 said:


> Just got a pair of HD800's locally new! Man, I've always loved these and I finally own them!


 
  
 nice! I will be joining you soon.


----------



## kvtaco17

magiccabbage said:


> nice! I will be joining you soon.


 
 Good!
  
 Now on to a new amp and DAC to do this thing justice... I will probably wait since the wife isn't the happiest with me currently lol.


----------



## magiccabbage

kvtaco17 said:


> Good!
> 
> Now on to a new amp and DAC to do this thing justice... I will probably wait since the wife isn't the happiest with me currently lol.


 
  
 i need a new dac also - my next purchase


----------



## Sorrodje

I posted it "Show us your head-fi station" but here's the current state of my HD800 Desktop rig: 
  

  
  
 Old Dacmagic as DAC, Meier Corda Jazz and Antique sound Lab MG Head OTL ( 2XEL84 Mullard + 12AX7 Siemens ) as amps, 4 feet Custom Cable made by a friend.


----------



## magiccabbage

nice setup


----------



## ericfarrell85

I have been riding the HD800 train for a while now, but may finally come to a rest. I need some more time to really quarry out the nuances into coherent writing, but the HD800 is more sensitive to source than I previously thought. I've been enjoying both the Reference 7/ Master 7 + Balancing Act (EML Solid Plate 300b's + Mullard ECC35 in the driver seat) very much lately. Peter from Double Helix supplied the balanced cable. 

Previously the Zana Deux + Beta was the summit, but the BA dredges out the micro shades a little better and facilitates a wonderful awareness of venue space. I still wouldn't throw on a "loudnes-for-loudness-sake" recording on it, because the HD800 has a way of damning it, but put on some Joni Mitchell or James Taylor and hear them whisper directly into your ears.


----------



## brunk

ericfarrell85 said:


> --snip--
> 
> Previously the Zana Deux + Beta was the summit, but the BA dredges out the micro shades a little better and facilitates a wonderful awareness of venue space. I still wouldn't throw on a "loudnes-for-loudness-sake" recording on it, because the HD800 has a way of damning it, but put on some *Joni Mitchell *or James Taylor and hear them whisper directly into your ears.


 
 Whoa, you freaked me out, I'm listening to some Joni Mitchell as I read this lol.


----------



## longbowbbs

Those moments are the nuggets of gold for me. I love it when it feels live.


----------



## rasmushorn

Subscribed!
  
 I just found a great deal on a almost new HD800 and it is my best headphone yet. I love it and the last week I have been longing to get home from work every day to play with my new toy. Going through my music collection one more time and everything just sounds awesome.


----------



## DarKen23

rasmushorn said:


> Subscribed!
> 
> I just found a great deal on a almost new HD800 and it is my best headphone yet. I love it and the last week I have been longing to get home from work every day to play with my new toy. Going through my music collection one more time and everything just sounds awesome.


Welcome aboard rasmushorn . Remember me? I sent you a few PMs regarding the iqube portable amplifier.


----------



## rasmushorn

darken23 said:


> Welcome aboard rasmushorn
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hehe yes I remember. Reminds me that I think I will try how HD800 pairs with the iQube. I still use the iQube regularly as it pairs very well with my T5p.


----------



## Sorrodje

rasmushorn said:


> Subscribed!
> 
> I just found a great deal on a almost new HD800 and it is my best headphone yet. I love it and the last week I have been longing to get home from work every day to play with my new toy. Going through my music collection one more time and everything just sounds awesome.


 
  
 Welcome aboard! . I'm very interested to hear you impressions over the long term about HD800/Meier Concerto Synergy !


----------



## rasmushorn

sorrodje said:


> Welcome aboard! . I'm very interested to hear you impressions over the long term about HD800/Meier Concerto Synergy !


 
  
 To begin with I used the Concerto with my Beyer T1's and I loved the synergy there. I have kept the Concerto because I knew that I would either get a T1 or HD800 again. At the moment I just think it sounds great. I am sure the Concerto has the potential to drive the HD800 to its full potential. I think it is only a matter of liking the signature or not. It is very neutral with the Concerto. I hear a lot of details and that amazing soundstage. So far I am not planning to find another amplifier but in the long run you never know.
  
 I have earlier had a few tube-amps and I have a feeling that at some point tubes may be something I should try. I have preferred analytical and bright sounding headphones/amplifiers but with the HD800 I might try a good tube amp in the future.


----------



## DarKen23

rasmushorn said:


> sorrodje said:
> 
> 
> > Welcome aboard! . I'm very interested to hear you impressions over the long term about HD800/Meier Concerto Synergy !
> ...


In that case, you might want to try the A18 amp from Yulong audio.


----------



## spkrs01

I have been listening to my HD800 in the last couple of days, which is re cabled with a solid core silver/gold cable on the recently acquired Cavalli LAu.
  
 The Lau has about 150 hours but is still burning in so I will be brief:- 
  
Smooth, balanced, coherent and having a more dense sounding presentation. Where images used to be etched out, now, there is more interplay......basically sounds like a different headphone, but still maintains the soundstaging qualities but is just so much more refined sounding and if I may say so, rather musical.....
  
I will post more thoughts as I gather them, and will compare with my other Headphone.


----------



## Audio Jester

spkrs01 said:


> I have been listening to my HD800 in the last couple of days, which is re cabled with a solid core silver/gold cable on the recently acquired Cavalli LAu.
> 
> The Lau has about 150 hours but is still burning in so I will be brief:-
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry if you have been asked this already, what brand is the silver/gold cable for your HD800's?


----------



## youngGeezeh

Ive had my HD800 for about 2 months now and I think I like the LCD headphones a lot better. Are tube amps really that good on the HD800?
  
 I get the feeling that Ive made a purchase with these headphones without considering just how much more I actually have to spend to listen to them properly. The prices on a headphone amplifier, a dac, as well as all the other things gives me a sick feeling in the gut.


----------



## quantx

What about Head Experience Trafomatic with HD 800 ?
 Pierre Paya in France speaks highly of it.


----------



## youngGeezeh

darken23 said:


> In that case, you might want to try the A18 amp from Yulong audio.


 
 Are there any other amplifiers like the A18 that sound similar to tubes?


----------



## DarKen23

younggeezeh said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > In that case, you might want to try the A18 amp from Yulong audio.
> ...


To be honest, I havent owned too many amps for long periods of time, ill usually move on to the next amp within 2-3 weeks If I dont like it. But I love the A18 with the HD800, It really is a wonderful pairing--its probably the closest thing to tube amp in terms of sonics from a solid state design (I could be wrong, there might be another amp thats closer?). The soundstage from the A18 is quite special as well.


----------



## Greed

younggeezeh said:


> Are there any other amplifiers like the A18 that sound similar to tubes?


 
  
 B22, M-Stage, Bakoon to name a few


----------



## DarKen23

greed said:


> younggeezeh said:
> 
> 
> > Are there any other amplifiers like the A18 that sound similar to tubes?
> ...


I forgot about the M-Stage. Ive never heard the M-stage but Ive had more than 1 person praise its synergy with the HD800.

If you decide that youd like to go with a balanced option, I believe the the maker of M-stage also has a balanced version, the Matrix Quattro. The Quattro is also twice as powerful If Im not mistaken.

If you are interested in the A18, I recommend you read the review done by 'Project86". A small comparison of the Matrix and A18 is included.


----------



## Greed

darken23 said:


> I forgot about the M-Stage. Ive never heard the M-stage but Ive had more than 1 person praise its synergy with the HD800.


 
  
 It's quite good for the price, IMO. Especially if you tweak it with better op-amps.


----------



## Bolardito

younggeezeh said:


> Are there any other amplifiers like the A18 that sound similar to tubes?




Luxman P1-u..unbeliable sinergy with the HD800


----------



## DarKen23

bolardito said:


> younggeezeh said:
> 
> 
> > Are there any other amplifiers like the A18 that sound similar to tubes?
> ...


That's the one amp I've always wanted to hear with the HD800.


----------



## longbowbbs

darken23 said:


> bolardito said:
> 
> 
> > younggeezeh said:
> ...


 
 ....This week....


----------



## RUMAY408

New to the thread expect HD800 to arrive tomorrow anyone else familiar with this HP and Meier Daccord and Corda Classic.  They pair well with the T1 but unclear how they'll work with the HD800.


----------



## DarKen23

longbowbbs said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > bolardito said:
> ...


You've got one on your way?


----------



## Dopaminer

bolardito said:


> Luxman P1-u..unbeliable sinergy with the HD800


 
 Last month I had the sublime pleasure of  instant comparisons between HD800, HD700 and Beyer T1 on the Luxman P700-u in a shop here in Tokyo.  The hours I spent there, switching between varioius SACDs, really sold me on the HD800 - the quality was obvious.  That P700 is a huge, beautiful balanced beast, and it`s only about $2300usd here in Japan, which compared to the $6K price overseas, is making think I can`t afford not to buy it.  Stilll, for that amount of cash, or maybe much less, some of the above mentioned tube or tube-like amps may be the way to go . . .


----------



## ForsakenArcher

rumay408 said:


> New to the thread expect HD800 to arrive tomorrow anyone else familiar with this HP and Meier Daccord and Corda Classic.  They pair well with the T1 but unclear how they'll work with the HD800.


 

 I pair Classic with both T1 and HD800. I prefer HD800 to T1 when paired with classic, especially at medium crossfeed setting.


----------



## youngGeezeh

bolardito said:


> Luxman P1-u..unbeliable sinergy with the HD800


 
 Why is the that luxman so expensive...


----------



## youngGeezeh

darken23 said:


> I forgot about the M-Stage. Ive never heard the M-stage but Ive had more than 1 person praise its synergy with the HD800.
> 
> If you decide that youd like to go with a balanced option, I believe the the maker of M-stage also has a balanced version, the Matrix Quattro. The Quattro is also twice as powerful If Im not mistaken.
> 
> If you are interested in the A18, I recommend you read the review done by 'Project86". A small comparison of the Matrix and A18 is included.


 
 Thank you for the input you have given me. Theres a pretty large price difference between the 2, it also appears that the Matrix amp isnt on the same level of the A18 according to the review. The A18 doesn't appear to be available used in the trade section either.


----------



## LugBug1

younggeezeh said:


> Why is the that luxman so expensive...


 
 Because peeps on here will pay it


----------



## longbowbbs

darken23 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > darken23 said:
> ...


 
 No, I meant it is the one amp you wanted to hear this week....I am totally happy with my Cary SLI-80.....


----------



## drez

dopaminer said:


> Last month I had the sublime pleasure of  instant comparisons between HD800, HD700 and Beyer T1 on the Luxman P700-u in a shop here in Tokyo.  The hours I spent there, switching between varioius SACDs, really sold me on the HD800 - the quality was obvious.  That P700 is a huge, beautiful balanced beast, and it`s only about $2300usd here in Japan, which compared to the $6K price overseas, is making think I can`t afford not to buy it.  Stilll, for that amount of cash, or maybe much less, some of the above mentioned tube or tube-like amps may be the way to go . . .


 
  
 Damn that's a huge difference x2.  Worth flying to Japan to buy one.  Nice used Stax 007 mki are another (although likely mutually exclusive) incentive to make the trip.


----------



## Dopaminer

$1500 for P1, $2400 for P700:
  

  
 http://kakaku.com/search_results/p1u/?search.x=-801&search.y=-88
  
 Slightly more from amazon.jp, but still half overseas prices. . .   If anyone is coming for the headphone fair this month, think about taking one home !


----------



## BournePerfect

Agreed with all the Luxman P1u/HD800 ravings. The first amp I've owned to really put some great flesh/tone/timbre to the Senns. I sold mine though simply because I didn't feel it was as transparent as many other amps I've tried. Also-the m-Stage gets you 85-90% of the way there for...$200.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## RUMAY408

forsakenarcher said:


> I pair Classic with both T1 and HD800. I prefer HD800 to T1 when paired with classic, especially at medium crossfeed setting.


 
 Thanks for the feedback, HD800 arrived today so I'm ready to dive in.


----------



## brunk

rumay408 said:


> Thanks for the feedback, HD800 arrived today so I'm ready to dive in.


 
 How's your new toy coming along?


----------



## RUMAY408

brunk said:


> How's your new toy coming along?


 
 Love it!  My guess, they'll just keep getting better over the next few weeks.


----------



## ForsakenArcher

rumay408 said:


> Love it!  My guess, they'll just keep getting better over the next few weeks.


 
 In my case, HD800 got better so that they get most head time. Btw, using daccord and classic, which one, HD800 or T1, do better with low dynamic range recordings or deal better with recording inherent sibilance?


----------



## magiccabbage

rumay408 said:


> Thanks for the feedback, HD800 arrived today so I'm ready to dive in.


 
 I should have mine in a few weeks also. I think we did the same thing - T1 then HD800. Im looking forward to having them with the WA2!


----------



## brunk

magiccabbage said:


> I should have mine in a few weeks also.* I think we did the same thing - T1 then HD800.* Im looking forward to having them with the WA2!


 
 Hah! I did too a couple months ago lol. The T1 is still very nice though. Best all-rounder IMO.


----------



## DarKen23

Can anyone comment on the wa6 and how it pairs with the HD800?


----------



## RUMAY408

forsakenarcher said:


> In my case, HD800 got better so that they get most head time. Btw, using daccord and classic, which one, HD800 or T1, do better with low dynamic range recordings or deal better with recording inherent sibilance?


 
 With the T1 I leave all the settings at neutral, on the HD800 I find the lower tone setting better (less sibilance).
  


magiccabbage said:


> I should have mine in a few weeks also. I think we did the same thing - T1 then HD800. Im looking forward to having them with the WA2!


 
 The HD800 will fit your head better, as much as I like the T1, I was blown away with the CSN album on High Rez.  I honestly have never heard audio, that I'm familiar with, sound that much better.  I think the bass on T1 is better but outside of that, I am now an HD800 believer.
 You need to visit the Head Gear separation thread if you have to wait for the HD800, it is like blessing your HP with special karma.
  


brunk said:


> Hah! I did too a couple months ago lol. The T1 is still very nice though. Best all-rounder IMO.


 
 I love the T1, my take so far 
 Bass T1>HD800
 Soundstage HD800>T1
 Imaging HD800>T1
 Comfort T1=HD800
 Transparency HD800>T1 Good if well recorded and mastered T1>HD800 less detailed audio 
 Mids HD800>T1
 Isolation T1>HD800
 Tone T1>HD800
 Detail HD800>T1 I can honestly say my jaw dropped when I heard an acoustic guitar on the HD800 it felt like sonic magic


----------



## magiccabbage

> The HD800 will fit your head better, as much as I like the T1, I was blown away with the CSN album on High Rez.  I honestly have never heard audio, that I'm familiar with, sound that much better.  I think the bass on T1 is better but outside of that, I am now an HD800 believer.
> You need to visit the Head Gear separation thread if you have to wait for the HD800, it is like blessing your HP with special karma.


 
  
  
 LOL. I believe that thread was original setup up because i was separated from my WA2/T1 rig, I posted about missing my t1's on the beyer thread and then focker started that thread.


----------



## RUMAY408

magiccabbage said:


> LOL. I believe that thread was original setup up because i was separated from my WA2/T1 rig, I posted about missing my t1's on the beyer thread and then focker started that thread.


 
 I'm thinking the HD800 may come in quicker with the right karma off that thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I received my HD800 in 36 hours, after I complained on the thread that I doubt if I would see them before Mon.


----------



## ForsakenArcher

rumay408 said:


> The HD800 will fit your head better, as much as I like the T1, I was blown away with the CSN album on High Rez.  I honestly have never heard audio, that I'm familiar with, sound that much better.  I think the bass on T1 is better but outside of that, I am now an HD800 believer.


 
 Precisely  what i think. I prefer T1 to HD800 in terms of bass, other than that HD800 hands down, as much as I like the T1. In terms of fit, HD800 will disappear on your head, whereas T1 has this habit of headband falling slightly down the slider than what I have set earlier.


----------



## Revogamer

forsakenarcher said:


> Precisely  what i think. I prefer T1 to HD800 in terms of bass, other than that HD800 hands down, as much as I like the T1. In terms of fit, HD800 will disappear on your head, whereas T1 has this habit of headband falling slightly down the slider than what I have set earlier.


 
 Depends on your head size to be honest; as i have no issues with the T1's moving once you have a good fit - would say HD800 and T1 are on par in that degree; own and enjoy both


----------



## 7ryder

subscribed


----------



## Poetik

forsakenarcher said:


> Precisely  what i think. I prefer T1 to HD800 in terms of bass, other than that HD800 hands down, as much as I like the T1. In terms of fit, HD800 will disappear on your head, whereas T1 has this habit of headband falling slightly down the slider than what I have set earlier.


 
  
 I wish there was a way to combine the T1 bass with everything else of the HD800.


----------



## magiccabbage

poetik said:


> I wish there was a way to combine the T1 bass with everything else of the HD800.


 
 I got to hear the HD800 through my WA2 and there is no problem with bass. I have the T1 and i thought the bass of the hd800 was warmer and more extended. I only got to hear it for about 40 mins but i will own it soon enough.


----------



## BournePerfect

I've always preferred the HD800s bass as well-but I can't complain about either honestly. The Senn's seem to extend lower and have more texture-the T1's bass a little fuller/rounder. They're both quite nice though...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## philo50

bourneperfect said:


> I've always preferred the HD800s bass as well-but I can't complain about either honestly. The Senn's seem too extend lower and have more texture-the T1's bass a little fuller/rounder. They're both quite nice though...
> 
> -Daniel


 
 my feelings exactly.....


----------



## silversurfer616

Rumour has it that the new AKG812 combines the best of both worlds!


----------



## BournePerfect

Gotta admit I loved the K702's bass from the m-Stage back in the day. Not sure how I'd feel now about that...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## magiccabbage

anyone bought from here before?
  
http://www.amazon.it/Sennheiser-HD-800-auricolare/dp/B00564FD2U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381621040&sr=8-1&keywords=hd800


----------



## negura

magiccabbage said:


> anyone bought from here before?
> 
> http://www.amazon.it/Sennheiser-HD-800-auricolare/dp/B00564FD2U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381621040&sr=8-1&keywords=hd800


 
  
 There was/is an italian dealer on eBay. A friend bought from him and all went well. It may be worthwhile to PM the seller before buying.


----------



## RedBull

bourneperfect said:


> I've always preferred the HD800s bass as well-but I can't complain about either honestly. The Senn's seem to extend lower and have more texture-the T1's bass a little fuller/rounder. They're both quite nice though...
> 
> -Daniel




+1 I prefer bass from hd800 too. Your description of both bass match exactly mine. T1 bass is a little more 'fun'er, punchier type.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

I prefer t1 bass but i also like hd 800 bass which can have more slam but less punch


----------



## Jd007

hey DG, did you ever post up your gs-x and/or wa22 reviews? very interested in reading them lol.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jd007 said:


> hey DG, did you ever post up your gs-x and/or wa22 reviews? very interested in reading them lol.


 
  
 wasn't really a review per se
  
 just a bunch of comments on the woo audio thread, and amongst other threads.
  
 mostly the WA22 is warmer and lusher, its quite tubey in the fact that it focuses on the midrange alot more than the GS-X or most amps. the soundstage is huge, better than GS-X and seems to have more space, 3d with the right tubes. 
  
 however, GS-X mk2 is basically better in every way, i do not find it brighter, or more fatiguing, or thinner in any way. but its musical, neutral, transparent, and works with everything i throw at it. the background is black on GSX MK2 whereas depending on the tubes, it can go from almost black to a grey background on the WA22.  the WA22 just has a better soundstage and is better for someone who wants tube sound. performance-wise, the WA22 is definitely end-game. having almost no grain, great detail, and great dynamics as well as a beautiful tube midrange. 
  
 one downside with WA22 is that with some headphones, like my T1, i notice a slightly lighter bass, cause the midrange is more forward, its not as noticeable on other headphones like HD 800. the bass is textured and deep though, which is good, depending on tubes of course.
  
 the GS-X has the best bass i've ever heard, its neutral, but not light, cause it has plenty of control, punch, slam, and authority, the bass is so clean and extended, its amazing really.


----------



## brunk

dubstep girl said:


> wasn't really a review per se
> 
> just a bunch of comments on the woo audio thread, and amongst other threads.
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting finding about the T1 + WA22. That issue sounds like the WA22 could use some additional capacitance to handle the T1's ~1400 ohm load in the bass department. Talk to Mr. Woo and see what he thinks about this. There's no such thing as too much capacitance either


----------



## Dubstep Girl

brunk said:


> Interesting finding about the T1 + WA22. That issue sounds like the WA22 could use some additional capacitance to handle the T1's ~1400 ohm load in the bass department. Talk to Mr. Woo and see what he thinks about this. There's no such thing as too much capacitance either


 
  
 yeah thats what i think as well, only the GS-X and WA2 seem to get it right.
  
 the WA22 seemed just as good, if not better than the WA2 with the HD 800, but the T1 seems to work better with the WA2, it just seems to have better control of the T1's drivers. also, the WA2 sounds best with T1 and the more powerful tung sol 5998, those really bring the bass out.


----------



## brunk

dubstep girl said:


> yeah thats what i think as well, only the GS-X and WA2 seem to get it right.
> 
> the WA22 seemed just as good, if not better than the WA2 with the HD 800, but the T1 seems to work better with the WA2, it just seems to have better control of the T1's drivers. also, the WA2 sounds best with T1 and the more powerful tung sol 5998, those really bring the bass out.


 
 Yeah the T1 + OTL combo is where it's at for sure, but at the price of the WA22 i would expect it to handle the T1 better IMHO.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> wasn't really a review per se
> 
> just a bunch of comments on the woo audio thread, and amongst other threads.
> 
> ...


 
 Is HD800 your fav pairing with the GSX? I think the last time you were enjoying LCD3 and HE6.


----------



## Jd007

dubstep girl said:


> yeah thats what i think as well, only the GS-X and WA2 seem to get it right.
> 
> the WA22 seemed just as good, if not better than the WA2 with the HD 800, but the T1 seems to work better with the WA2, it just seems to have better control of the T1's drivers. also, the WA2 sounds best with T1 and the more powerful tung sol 5998, those really bring the bass out.




Wow that's interesting that the wa2 handles the t1 so well even compared to the wa22. Are you going to get the wa2 back then? Seems like you are going tubeless for a while lol. No plans to sell the gsx I assume, only the wa22?

Interesting that the wa22 has bigger soundstage than the gsx, must be an improvement over the wa2 then as I didn't feel that SS was anything exceptional on the wa2. Or maybe I just don't have the right power tubes. 

So what would you say your fav pairings are for each of your cans, taking all amps you've owned into consideration? Thanks for the impressions btw, oh and are these done on balanced headphones?


----------



## Greed

jd007 said:


> Wow that's interesting that the wa2 handles the t1 so well even compared to the wa22. Are you going to get the wa2 back then? Seems like you are going tubeless for a while lol. No plans to sell the gsx I assume, only the wa22?
> 
> Interesting that the wa22 has bigger soundstage than the gsx, must be an improvement over the wa2 then as I didn't feel that SS was anything exceptional on the wa2. Or maybe I just don't have the right power tubes.
> 
> So what would you say your fav pairings are for each of your cans, taking all amps you've owned into consideration? Thanks for the impressions btw, oh and are these done on balanced headphones?


 
  
 A bit of a generalization here, but typically tube amps do two things better than SS amps: That is soundstage and dynamics. I can concur that my LG has better dynamics and a wider soundstage with the HD800.


----------



## TristHeadphone

Can someone please tell me how much better is hd800 than t1 for soundstage? is it to "unnormal"


----------



## negura

tristheadphone said:


> Can someone please tell me how much better is hd800 than t1 for soundstage? is it to "unnormal"


 
  
 A lot better as in soundstage size. Not all genres necessarily benefit that, but since the HD800s are way better headphones for not too much more, there you go.


----------



## brunk

negura said:


> A lot better as in soundstage size. Not all genres necessarily benefit that, but since the HD800s are way better headphones for not too much more, there you go.


 
 Just noticed in your sig you have some front loaded horns! I have some back loaded horns, don't really have the space otherwise. Have any pics uploaded somewhere by chance?


----------



## negura

brunk said:


> Just noticed in your sig you have some front loaded horns! I have some back loaded horns, don't really have the space otherwise. Have any pics uploaded somewhere by chance?


 
  
 Nothing that exciting, but there's a partial view here: http://cdn.head-fi.org/3/3c/900x900px-LL-3c7339f7_DSC01264_s.jpeg
 Fostex design.


----------



## brunk

negura said:


> Nothing that exciting, but there's a partial view here: http://cdn.head-fi.org/3/3c/900x900px-LL-3c7339f7_DSC01264_s.jpeg
> Fostex design.


 
 Wow beautiful wood work! Did you do that yourself? I'm using Fostex as well


----------



## palmfish

negura said:


> Nothing that exciting, but there's a partial view here: http://cdn.head-fi.org/3/3c/900x900px-LL-3c7339f7_DSC01264_s.jpeg
> Fostex design.




Yes, very nice looking indeed. Reminds me a little of the Orion.


----------



## magiccabbage

tristheadphone said:


> Can someone please tell me how much better is hd800 than t1 for soundstage? is it to "unnormal"


 
 The T1 has a really good soundstage, it feels a bit more compact than the hd800. The hd800 jut sounds big, its hard to explain without hearing. when i switched back to the T1 after hearing the hd800 everything just sounded that much smaller. 
  
 I wouldn't describe it as "unnormal" it was amazing


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> tristheadphone said:
> 
> 
> > Can someone please tell me how much better is hd800 than t1 for soundstage? is it to "unnormal"
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## DarKen23

tristheadphone said:


> Can someone please tell me how much better is hd800 than t1 for soundstage? is it to "unnormal"


I'd say the hd800 is the closest headphone that can replicate listening to speakers/monitors in a small room


----------



## brunk

darken23 said:


> I'd say the hd800 is the closest headphone that can replicate listening to speakers/monitors in a small room


 
 Though I haven't heard these personally (i almost pulled the trigger on them) I would imagine the Jecklin Float QA may hold that crown. They sure are ugly as hell though.


----------



## nigeljames

greed said:


> A bit of a generalization here, but typically tube amps do two things better than SS amps: That is *soundstage and dynamics*. I can concur that my LG has better dynamics and a wider soundstage with the HD800.


 
  
 Soundstage maybe, but that's very subjective, but dynamics sorry that is just wrong.
  
 The most important thing for dynamics is power supply IMO. It's nothing to do with SS vs Tube.


----------



## DarKen23

nigeljames said:


> greed said:
> 
> 
> > A bit of a generalization here, but typically tube amps do two things better than SS amps: That is *soundstage and dynamics*. I can concur that my LG has better dynamics and a wider soundstage with the HD800.
> ...


 
 Interesting, I never knew that. 
  
 With the 2, I always thought that ss amps were better in dynamics over tubes. Are you referring to the internal power supply of the amp?


----------



## nigeljames

darken23 said:


> Interesting, I never knew that.
> 
> With the 2, I always thought that ss amps were better in dynamics over tubes. *Are you referring to the internal power supply of the amp?*


 
  
 Yes, in my experience the better the power supply the better the dynamics,everything else being equal of course.


----------



## DarKen23

nigeljames said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting, I never knew that.
> ...


 
 Thank you for that information. I never knew that.


----------



## DarKen23

Damn it, I got work in 3.5 hours. Curse these HD800s. They've kept me up at night since day one


----------



## froger

nigeljames said:


> Yes, in my experience the better the power supply the better the dynamics,everything else being equal of course.


 Everything else being equal? I am not sure sure how you can compare tube and ss amp then. Based on my experience with Audio-gd Master 8 and Decware Mini Torii which are of similar price range, my HE-6 sounded more dynamic and musical and has a more 3-D soundstage with the Mini Torii tube amp. I thought the power supply of Master 8 should be one of its strongest point, so sorry, I agree with Greed more about tube vs ss amp.


----------



## longbowbbs

darken23 said:


> tristheadphone said:
> 
> 
> > Can someone please tell me how much better is hd800 than t1 for soundstage? is it to "unnormal"
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## nigeljames

froger said:


> Everything else being equal? I am not sure sure how you can compare tube and ss amp then. Based on my experience with Audio-gd Master 8 and Decware Mini Torii which are of similar price range, my HE-6 sounded more dynamic and musical and has a more 3-D soundstage with the Mini Torii tube amp. I thought the power supply of Master 8 should be one of its strongest point, so sorry, I agree with Greed more about tube vs ss amp.


 
  
 Well my Master-6 was more dynamic than the Woo6 SE, Woo22, Taboo (Mk2 I think) and Raptor amps with the LCD2.2's, HE6's and HD800's and neither of these amps were actually lacking in dynamics,
 So if Tube amps are more dynamic than SS then how did that happen?


----------



## BournePerfect

My ZDSE was the most dynamic amp I've ever owned-which includes a long list of ss amps, including the Master 8, Bryston, and MJ to name a few.  I get the feeling some people confuse dynamics with 'hard-hitting, impactful'-rather than the actual dynamic swings of extremely low volume pianissimo to say triple forte-without losing sight of microdynamics all the while. Nothing has yet come close to my ZDSE in this regard-now whether that's tubes vs. ss I couldn't tell you.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Sorrodje

bourneperfect said:


> I get the feeling *too many people* confuse dynamics with 'hard-hitting, impactful'-rather than the actual dynamic swings of extremely low volume pianissimo to say triple forte-without losing sight of microdynamics all the while.


 
  
  
 Fixed... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I definitely agree with your opinion.


----------



## nigeljames

froger said:


> Everything else being equal? I am not sure sure how you can compare tube and ss amp then. Based on my experience with Audio-gd Master 8 and Decware Mini Torii which are of similar price range, my HE-6 sounded more dynamic and musical and has a more 3-D soundstage with the Mini Torii tube amp. I thought the power supply of Master 8 should be one of its strongest point, so sorry, I agree with Greed more about tube vs ss amp.



 



As the Mini Torii is a speaker amp not a headphone amp then 'everything being equal' does not apply!


----------



## longbowbbs

nigeljames said:


> froger said:
> 
> 
> > Everything else being equal? I am not sure sure how you can compare tube and ss amp then. Based on my experience with Audio-gd Master 8 and Decware Mini Torii which are of similar price range, my HE-6 sounded more dynamic and musical and has a more 3-D soundstage with the Mini Torii tube amp. I thought the power supply of Master 8 should be one of its strongest point, so sorry, I agree with Greed more about tube vs ss amp.
> ...


 
  
 The Mini Torii can be ordered with a HP output jack for HP only use. I believe Skylab was the first to order one with a HP jack.


----------



## froger

longbowbbs said:


> The Mini Torii can be ordered with a HP output jack for HP only use. I believe Skylab was the first to order one with a HP jack.


 Yes, you are right, mine came with the HP output jack as well, I have never used the speakers jack to drive my headphones before.


----------



## Greed

nigeljames said:


> Soundstage maybe, but that's very subjective, but dynamics sorry that is just wrong.
> 
> The most important thing for dynamics is power supply IMO. It's nothing to do with SS vs Tube.


 
  
 Hmm.. well, lets agree to disagree? What I said was my opinion nothing more nothing less. In my experience tubes vs ss - dynamics and soundstage are superior. I agree the quality of PS is very important as a foundation, but past that - tubes seem to have the upper hand in my experience. I can't imagine how one would gauge "all other things being equal" when testing products from multiple companies. That statement just doesn't jive. Now, I'm sure it is possible to have an SS amp sound more dynamic than a tube amp if you are comparing a low or mid-end tube amp versus a high-end ss amp. That comparison obviously wouldn't be fair. Also, as I said original, there are always exceptions and that is why I wrote it was a generalization - because I find my GS-X mk2 to sound very dynamic in comparison to other lesser tube amps I've had and heard.


----------



## LugBug1

I would like to add, that the dynamics of vintage amps (or integrated amps that use the main transformer) are very good. It was one of the things that leaped out at me when I started using them. Of course the refinement and control will not be competitive against high end SS or tube dedicated amps, but they sound effortless with dynamic classical music for e'g.


----------



## rgs9200m

Why don't you try the Apex Teton? If it sounds like my Pinnacle, it's a superb match for the 800s. (I never heard the Teton, but I think it's basically a single-ended-only of a Pinnacle. Don't quote me on that, it's just speculation.)


----------



## nigeljames

greed said:


> Hmm.. well, lets agree to disagree? What I said was my opinion nothing more nothing less. In my experience tubes vs ss - dynamics and soundstage are superior. I agree the quality of PS is very important as a foundation, but past that - tubes seem to have the upper hand in my experience.* I can't imagine how one would gauge "all other things being equal" when testing products from multiple companies*. That statement just doesn't jive. Now, I'm sure it is possible to have an SS amp sound more dynamic than a tube amp if you are comparing a low or mid-end tube amp versus a high-end ss amp. That comparison obviously wouldn't be fair. Also, as I said original, there are always exceptions and that is why I wrote it was a generalization - because I find my GS-X mk2 to sound very dynamic in comparison to other lesser tube amps I've had and heard.


 
  
  
 Agreed, which just proves the point I was trying to make.
 There are far too many variables when comparing amps to say that it's purely a tube vs solid state issue.
 It's like saying SS amps are always faster than tube amps which I know is not always true.
  
 But we digress from the topic of this thread.


----------



## preproman

I asked Greed to explain what he meant by dynamics.  I understand more where he's coming from now.  By listening to speakers from speaker amps are more of a tell,tell when dynamics come into play IMO..  
  
 Hell, my F1J has a very large dynamics range.  It handles these swings better than any headphone amp I've ever heard.  As far as tube headphone amps goes I only went as high as a Single Power Extreme and a Woo WA22, and a few lower end ones.
  
 However, I've heard lots of tube speaker amps.  In my experience the SS speaker amps wins in that area more times than not.  
  
 And yup - your DAC has to be able to bring it as well.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

rgs9200m said:


> Why don't you try the Apex Teton? If it sounds like my Pinnacle, it's a superb match for the 800s. (I never heard the Teton, but I think it's basically a single-ended-only of a Pinnacle. Don't quote me on that, it's just speculation.)


 
  
 i'm interested in hearing some teton impressions as well. no1 has bought it that i know of yet.
  
 seems like its good, but seems overpriced. i think if it cost $3000 or less, more people would buy. $5000 is quite a bit, likewise the $10000 for pinnacle is too much considering 009+bhse costs the same.


----------



## songmic

rgs9200m said:


> Why don't you try the Apex Teton? If it sounds like my Pinnacle, it's a superb match for the 800s. (I never heard the Teton, but I think it's basically a single-ended-only of a Pinnacle. Don't quote me on that, it's just speculation.)


 
  
 The Pinnacle is a transformer-coupled amp, while the Teton is OTL.
 I doubt the Teton is a single-ended only of a Pinnacle.


----------



## rgs9200m

dubstep girl said:


> i'm interested in hearing some teton impressions as well. no1 has bought it that i know of yet.
> 
> seems like its good, but seems overpriced. i think if it cost $3000 or less, more people would buy. $5000 is quite a bit, likewise the $10000 for pinnacle is too much considering 009+bhse costs the same.


 
 Thanks for that perspective. I feel that the Pinnacle opens up a whole world of current and future phones that offer a lot more flexibility for tastes than a stat amp does,
 which basically limits your to Stax 007s and 009s. And IMHO the Pinnacle brings out (generally) the best of every phone, sometimes letting them sound better than I ever would have believed.
  
 Also, as an owner of both types, I still feel that dynamics are dynamics and stats are stats and never the twain shall meet.
 And there are many stat-lovers and dynamic-lovers for whom one type will not substitute for the other, so offering an 009 system to a dynamic fan is a moot point.
  
 Just my 2-cent world view , so thanks again Dubstep Girl and my best to you.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

rgs9200m said:


> Thanks for that perspective. I feel that the Pinnacle opens up a whole world of current and future phones that offer a lot more flexibility for tastes than a stat amp does,
> which basically limits your to Stax 007s and 009s. And IMHO *the Pinnacle brings out (generally) the best of every phone, sometimes letting them sound better than I ever would have believed.*
> 
> Also, as an owner of both types, I still feel that dynamics are dynamics and stats are stats and never the twain shall meet.
> ...


 
 Couldn't agree more.
 It's the ONLY amp which is absolutely sensational with ALL my headphones including K1000s & yes, even the HE6.
 You just need to get the right 6SN7s.
 For the HD800s my favorite tube is the Hytron.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

dubstep girl said:


> i'm interested in hearing some teton impressions as well. no1 has bought it that i know of yet.
> 
> seems like its good, but seems overpriced. i think if it cost $3000 or less, more people would buy. $5000 is quite a bit, likewise the $10000 for pinnacle is too much considering 009+bhse costs the same.


 
 I used to have three amps; ECBA for HD800s, EAR-HP4 for LCD3s & MAD+ for Grados.
 The Pinnacle replaced all three. Sold the first two and the MAD will go to my holiday home in Bombay!
 Yes, 10K is quite a lot, but if you've got multiple headphones, each with it's own specific needs, then this amp is actually a no-brainer.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

GSX-2 has also seems to work for all my headphones including he-6, havent tried k1000 yet


----------



## SHAHZADA123

dubstep girl said:


> GSX-2 has also seems to work for all my headphones including he-6, havent tried k1000 yet


 
 If it _only works_ for top tier headphones then I wouldn't consider it in the same league as the Pinnacle.
 It would have to be really very special if its better than the ECBA and EAR.
 And if it is, I'd be very inclined to buy one.
  
 My point is, I don't base my judgement on pricing, just performance.    
 Heck, I found the Mjolnir better than the ECBA for the LCD3s and a major reason I sold the latter and got the Pinnacle.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Works with just about anything, the magic of wire with gain sound.

I am not a fan of the ECBA, at least with hd 800 and th-900


----------



## DarKen23

shahzada123 said:


> dubstep girl said:
> 
> 
> > GSX-2 has also seems to work for all my headphones including he-6, havent tried k1000 yet
> ...


 
 Then you should put the mjolnir into that same league as well. It definitely does not work for every top tier headphone. What does that Pinnacle do, _*magic*_?


----------



## SHAHZADA123

darken23 said:


> Then you should put the mjolnir into that same league as well. It definitely does not work for every top tier headphone. What does that Pinnacle do, _*magic*_?


 
 You're totally missing the point. The Mjolnir is good ONLY with the LCD3s, not so much with HD800s.
 The Pinnacle OTOH is great with ALL my headphones. How it does it you'll have to ask Todd/Pete. They're the magicians.
 I just appreciate their magic


----------



## Ryukun

Great read!


----------



## DarKen23

shahzada123 said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Then you should put the mjolnir into that same league as well. It definitely does not work for every top tier headphone. What does that Pinnacle do, _*magic*_?
> ...


 
 That, I can totally agree with.


----------



## magiccabbage

ordering my hd800's next week - cannot wait


----------



## BournePerfect

magiccabbage said:


> ordering my hd800's next week - cannot wait


----------



## magiccabbage

bourneperfect said:


>


 
 also getting 2 sieveking omega stand for the HD800's and T1


----------



## AgentXXL

magiccabbage said:


> also getting 2 sieveking omega stand for the HD800's and T1


 
  
 Congrats on the purchase! I still feel nowhere near the potential of my HD800s but I'm just amazed at how great they sound with my 'high-end' portable setup shown below. Rather than spend some serious money on the Omega stands (although they are very nice), my headphones spend a lot of time on my head and hence the stand was secondary. I built my own stand using a 4" long piece of 3/4" galvanized pipe, a 3/4" threaded flange for the base, a styrofoam dummy's head from a local costume shop and a can of styrofoam safe spray paint (tan colour). Total cost was about $15.
  
 Although I've bought mainly portable components and show the setup connected to my iPhone 5, I use it far more often connected to my MacBook Pro. The MBP is connected to the Cypher Labs Algorythm Solo -dB with a USB 2.0 port. The balanced output of the CLAS -dB is connected to the balanced input of the Ray Samuels Audio Intruder. And lastly, my HD800 (self-reterminated) are connected to the balanced headphone output on the front of the RSA Intruder. Eventually I'll be buying a better amp and DAC for my home setup, but right now my so-called 'portable' setup does a very nice job with my predominantly FLAC based library of music. Thankfully I've discovered that I don't need to jump right to the GS-X Mark II and an equally pricey DAC to get fantastic sound. And when I do buy the high end 'desktop' amp and DAC, I'll hopefully appreciate the sound improvement that much more.
  
  
  
 Dale


----------



## LugBug1

^^^ really like the stand! Very inventive.


----------



## Dopaminer

agentxxl said:


> Congrats on the purchase! I still feel nowhere near the potential of my HD800s but I'm just amazed at how great they sound with my 'high-end' portable setup shown below. Rather than spend some serious money on the Omega stands (although they are very nice), my headphones spend a lot of time on my head and hence the stand was secondary. I built my own stand using a 4" long piece of 3/4" galvanized pipe, a 3/4" threaded flange for the base, a styrofoam dummy's head from a local costume shop and a can of styrofoam safe spray paint (tan colour). Total cost was about $15.
> 
> Although I've bought mainly portable components and show the setup connected to my iPhone 5, I use it far more often connected to my MacBook Pro. The MBP is connected to the Cypher Labs Algorythm Solo -dB with a USB 2.0 port. The balanced output of the CLAS -dB is connected to the balanced input of the Ray Samuels Audio Intruder. And lastly, my HD800 (self-reterminated) are connected to the balanced headphone output on the front of the RSA Intruder. Eventually I'll be buying a better amp and DAC for my home setup, but right now my so-called 'portable' setup does a very nice job with my predominantly FLAC based library of music. Thankfully I've discovered that I don't need to jump right to the GS-X Mark II and an equally pricey DAC to get fantastic sound. And when I do buy the high end 'desktop' amp and DAC, I'll hopefully appreciate the sound improvement that much more.
> 
> ...


 
 We`re on parallel hd800-evolution tragectories. . .   
 I really like what you`re doing with the balanced mode, and of course the mannequin head.


----------



## DarKen23

I believe the stand is made by "ROOMS"


----------



## palmfish

I love the stand!


----------



## magiccabbage

darken23 said:


> I believe the stand is made by "ROOMS"


 
 You get those from Meier Audio?


----------



## DarKen23

magiccabbage said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > I believe the stand is made by "ROOMS"
> ...


Yes sir, that is correct . Jan is awesome.


----------



## MickeyVee

Here you go all.. my first HeadFi review.. HD800 of course.. be gentle   
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-hd-800-headphones/reviews/9826


----------



## AgentXXL

palmfish said:


> I love the stand!




Are you referring to the $15 home brew stand I made from a mannequin head, the $105 ROOMS FS stands from Meier Audio, or the $179 Sieveking Omega stands? 

I'm sure you were complementing mine.... 

Dale


----------



## philo50

^ good for you....I enjoyed that a lot.....talking of the review of course


----------



## longbowbbs

Mickey nice review! Thanks for taking the time!


----------



## AgentXXL

mickeyvee said:


> Here you go all.. my first HeadFi review.. HD800 of course.. be gentle
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-hd-800-headphones/reviews/9826




An interesting review... When you say the HD800/WA7 could be your end-game combo, is that because you've tried other amps (and DACs?) and none of them have done as good of a job as your current setup? Or because you're just content to live with what you have right now (because you obviously enjoy it)?

I'm in a similar boat with my CLAS-dB DAC, RSA Intruder amp and the HD800s. It's VERY enjoyable, but based on what I've heard at meets and my lust for new toys, it won't be my end-game setup.

I really prefer the balanced environment, so I'll likely never go back to using a single-ended output, other than for comparisons where a single-ended output is my only choice.

Dale


----------



## MickeyVee

Thank you.  I did the review over three nights listening to the tracks over and over again which consuming quantities of Rusty Nails (scotch & drambuie).  For my first review, just wanted to do something different.  For me, the music is about emotion and I love gear that coveys it be it my HeadFi system or my main 2CH/AV system.  Music has been such a major part of my life for 40+ years from my first mail order record player with speaker to where I am now.
 I was really leery of posting is gas it's my first review ever.  Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## longbowbbs

I appreciate your view. I have rolled a number of amps and settled on the Cary because it sounds great and does double duty with speakers. I would rather spend the time listening and enjoying. The HD800's love the Cary and I can always roll tubes if I want to.


----------



## MickeyVee

My other combo was the Schiit Lyr/Bifrost Uber and it was good.  I'd love to move up the scale but the money needs to go to other places. Yes, I enjoy what I have now and maybe someday may get there as I know that the HD800's scale up. Would love tho go balanced.  On my bucket list are the Bel Canto DAC and the Senn HDVD 600 (all balanced) and maybe going up from there.
 My _personal_ end game based on what I can afford and what is out there are different things.  I'm basing my comments on what _*I*_ can afford versus what I want to try.  Give that, I'm pretty happy where I am now and yes, you can enjoy the HD800 without going TOTL  I'm getting to old to believe that whoever has the best/most/most expensive toys, wins.  Enjoy the journey!
  
  
  
 Quote:


agentxxl said:


> An interesting review... When you say the HD800/WA7 could be your end-game combo, is that because you've tried other amps (and DACs?) and none of them have done as good of a job as your current setup? Or because you're just content to live with what you have right now (because you obviously enjoy it)?
> 
> I'm in a similar boat with my CLAS-dB DAC, RSA Intruder amp and the HD800s. It's VERY enjoyable, but based on what I've heard at meets and my lust for new toys, it won't be my end-game setup.
> 
> ...


----------



## brunk

agentxxl said:


> An interesting review... When you say the HD800/WA7 could be your end-game combo, is that because you've tried other amps (and DACs?) and none of them have done as good of a job as your current setup? Or because you're just content to live with what you have right now (because you obviously enjoy it)?
> 
> I'm in a similar boat with my CLAS-dB DAC, RSA Intruder amp and the HD800s. It's VERY enjoyable, but based on what I've heard at meets and my lust for new toys, it won't be my end-game setup.
> 
> ...


 
 Why exclude yourself from the many wonderful single-ended options? There's so much more to choose from, and frankly quite a bit of them beat the pants off a "balanced" setup too.
  


longbowbbs said:


> I appreciate your view. I have rolled a number of amps and settled on the Cary because it sounds great and does double duty with speakers. I would rather spend the time listening and enjoying. The HD800's love the Cary and I can always roll tubes if I want to.


 
 I almost pulled the trigger on that Cary in the past, it still piques my interest to this day. I might jump aboard with you someday...


----------



## longbowbbs

brunk said:


> agentxxl said:
> 
> 
> > An interesting review... When you say the HD800/WA7 could be your end-game combo, is that because you've tried other amps (and DACs?) and none of them have done as good of a job as your current setup? Or because you're just content to live with what you have right now (because you obviously enjoy it)?
> ...


 
 Audiogon has an F1 up for $2200....Nearly half price.....


----------



## AgentXXL

brunk said:


> Why exclude yourself from the many wonderful single-ended options? There's so much more to choose from, and frankly quite a bit of them beat the pants off a "balanced" setup too.




I haven't found the same... every balanced setup I've managed to listen to has always sounded better than the single-ended setups I've tried. That's not to say I haven't heard some fantastic single-ended systems, but for some reason I always seem to prefer a balanced setup. They just appear to present a fuller soundstage to me, eg. my opinion.

I'm not sure if it's something to do with my hearing, but I also prefer solid state over tube amplifiers. Everything I've read tells me that a tube amp is likely to have the best synergy with my HD800s, yet every time I listen to one, it seems slightly off-putting to me. Strange, I know.

Maybe one day things will change. I'm actually half-tempted to purchase a used but well recommended tube setup and give it a longer listening to than the limited time I've been able to spend with systems at meets. I'm sure part of it is me still adjusting to the nuances I'm now discovering since I've owned the HD800s. I'm a believer that you aren't necessarily born an audiophile, but you start off as an enthusiast who eventually learns to listen for things that you never previously recognized.

That said, it could be that my hearing is fubar and nowhere near the norm that most Head-fiers seem to experience. I do still hear the differences between my DT770s, other mid and low end headphones and my HD800s, and I definitely hear and recognize the HD800 as superior. I'm content knowing that I hear things differently, but happy that I still get to enjoy what the HD800s have to offer.

Dale


----------



## daverich4

agentxxl said:


> Congrats on the purchase! I still feel nowhere near the potential of my HD800s but I'm just amazed at how great they sound with my 'high-end' portable setup shown below. Rather than spend some serious money on the Omega stands (although they are very nice), my headphones spend a lot of time on my head and hence the stand was secondary. I built my own stand using a 4" long piece of 3/4" galvanized pipe, a 3/4" threaded flange for the base, a styrofoam dummy's head from a local costume shop and a can of styrofoam safe spray paint (tan colour). Total cost was about $15.
> 
> Although I've bought mainly portable components and show the setup connected to my iPhone 5, I use it far more often connected to my MacBook Pro. The MBP is connected to the Cypher Labs Algorythm Solo -dB with a USB 2.0 port. The balanced output of the CLAS -dB is connected to the balanced input of the Ray Samuels Audio Intruder. And lastly, my HD800 (self-reterminated) are connected to the balanced headphone output on the front of the RSA Intruder. Eventually I'll be buying a better amp and DAC for my home setup, but right now my so-called 'portable' setup does a very nice job with my predominantly FLAC based library of music. Thankfully I've discovered that I don't need to jump right to the GS-X Mark II and an equally pricey DAC to get fantastic sound. And when I do buy the high end 'desktop' amp and DAC, I'll hopefully appreciate the sound improvement that much more.
> 
> ...




What a great idea for a stand. That way your phones stay in position, all stretched out and ready to go. Nice.


----------



## DarKen23

Just watched an awesome sci-fi movie titled "Europa Report". Forgot how great the movie experience can be using the HD800


----------



## kamalz

magiccabbage said:


> ordering my hd800's next week - cannot wait


 
  
  Congrats..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
   My hd800 is with serial number 21XXX ..hmm i did not notice any brightness in treble.
  
   i found that it really loves benchmark dac1 with   proper powercord & powerconditioner
 When i change into using DHC complement fusion cable ...hmm .. i think i am hearing a studio recorded sound ..i am serious you know


----------



## RedBull

darken23 said:


> Just watched an awesome sci-fi movie titled "Europa Report". Forgot how great the movie experience can be using the HD800




+1 hd800 is my #1 choice for movie!!!
Oblivion sounds awesome too with it.



kamalz said:


> Congrats..
> 
> My hd800 is with serial number 21XXX ..hmm i did not notice any brightness in treble.




+1 no brightness at all, it's definitely below stax 2170, sa3000, grado sr60 and sometimes below hd650, only that hd650 vocal is more fuller and forward, while there's a distance between the singer and me with hd800 (bit further).


----------



## drez

I sometimes become frustrated at the english language.  "Not bright at all" or translates to something like "it's bright, but not enough to be adverse."  At least I sincerely hope this is what is being said.  If you have an unmodified HD800 that is not bright please send it to Tyll or Purrin for measurement.
  
 If I were someone new to this hobby or had a poor comprehension of various idioms and turns of phrase in the English language, and I came to this thread I might read these white lies and not realise that although they point to a genuine statement of subjective opinion, I might think "Yep, I don't like bright headphones. but HD800's aren't bright so I'll buy them."
  
 Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the hell out of the HD800's, but I appreciate them for what the are, fast, agile, mostly neutral, revealing, detailed, and maybe I even appreciate the brightness at times.  
  
 We don't need to meander around with misleading flattery to express appreciation of a headphone.


----------



## Sorrodje

drez said:


> I sometimes become frustrated at the english language.  "Not bright at all" or translates to something like "it's bright, but not enough to be adverse."  At least I sincerely hope this is what is being said.  If you have an unmodified HD800 that is not bright please send it to Tyll or Purrin for measurement.
> 
> If I were someone new to this hobby or had a poor comprehension of various idioms and turns of phrase in the English language, and I came to this thread I might read these white lies and not realise that although they point to a genuine statement of subjective opinion, I might think "Yep, I don't like bright headphones. but HD800's aren't bright so I'll buy them."
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 +1 !
  
 I really enjoy my HD800 but this headphone is definetely on the bright side of neutrality. That said, HD800 is IMO very different from other bright cans I tried. HD800 brings body and impact and bottom to its brightness. That makes hd800 an extraordinary headphone in my opinion. HD800 never sounded thin or light in my experience and HD800's bass and sub bass ( real bass not the fun mid bass like so many headphones) amaze me each time I use mine. With inappropriate source or amp the HD800 can sound harsh or sterile because decay is short and attacks are strong. Upstream gear has to bring smoothness and "meat" to the table in order to compliment HD800 strenghts. Then HD800 can sound at the same time slightly bright AND slightly warm AND well bodied. And then the audio experience become really impressive.


----------



## AgentXXL

drez said:


> I sometimes become frustrated at the english language.  "Not bright at all" or translates to something like "it's bright, but not enough to be adverse."  At least I sincerely hope this is what is being said.  *If you have an unmodified HD800 that is not bright please send it to Tyll or Purrin for measurement.*
> 
> If I were someone new to this hobby or had a poor comprehension of various idioms and turns of phrase in the English language, and I came to this thread I might read these white lies and not realise that although *they point to a genuine statement of subjective opinion*, I might think "Yep, I don't like bright headphones. but HD800's aren't bright so I'll buy them."
> 
> ...




I'm on the fence when it comes to comments like yours. I will 100% agree with the two sections I bolded. It's my opinion and understand from everything I've read (subjective or otherwise) that the HD800s are a bright headphone. That said, there are others out there like myself that just don't hear it, plain and simple, even with the dreaded 6KHz peak (that doesn't always appear in measurements). It's likely due to the fact that our hearing (mine for sure) is fubar or the fact that we all have different ears and brains.

I work in healthcare and have had the opportunity to have my hearing and that of co-workers tested by an audiologist numerous times after having repaired their equipment (calibrated using NIST reference standards). We all have different audiometric curves and hence we all hear things differently.

That said, I can't and won't dismiss the comments of the majority of the forum readers in declaring the HD800 a bright headphone. I'm just lucky enough not to be affected by it and I get to enjoy my pair as much or maybe more than others. Just because we don't hear the brightness doesn't mean our comments or opinions shouldn't be expressed.

Dale


----------



## rawrster

There is a slight tilt towards the bright side of neutrality (compared to something like a LCD2/3) but I wouldn't say it's as bad as it may be perceived. Something like a Grado (in production and not something like the HP1000) I would consider very bright but the HD800  isn't too bad. A bit of gear matching and it's fine for me.


----------



## magiccabbage

agentxxl said:


> I'm on the fence when it comes to comments like yours. I will 100% agree with the two sections I bolded. It's my opinion and understand from everything I've read (subjective or otherwise) that the HD800s are a bright headphone. That said, there are others out there like myself that just don't hear it, plain and simple, even with the dreaded 6KHz peak (that doesn't always appear in measurements). It's likely due to the fact that our hearing (mine for sure) is fubar or the fact that we all have different ears and brains.
> 
> I work in healthcare and have had the opportunity to have my hearing and that of co-workers tested by an audiologist numerous times after having repaired their equipment (calibrated using NIST reference standards). We all have different audiometric curves and hence we all hear things differently.
> 
> ...


 
 +1 also when using warm tubes like i am its not bright. I actually think the headphone is warm and big sounding. I suppose with a solid state amp its different story.


----------



## LugBug1

How loud you listen is a factor as well imo. The only time treble is an issue with me is when I crank them right up.. My HD600's at the same volume aren't as fiery.  At my normal volume which admittedly is probably quite low, I've never had any issue with the treble no matter what recording (even Miles trumpet).  
  
 I recently did a little comparison between the hd600's and 800's to see at what level distortion would start to creep in or the sound would deteriorate. Unfortunately my ears can't handle the kind of volume needed for this haha. But what I did discover, was that the HD800's are quite a bit more sensitive. I could get the volume a lot louder with the 600's before the treble got really annoying. 
  
 I also had the sense to try 'bass only' music and so using a double bass solo I was able to crank both of them right up. But the clicks, plicks and slaps soon became very tiring with the hd800's as they pronounced the treble over the bass more so than the 600's. 
  
 Anyhows, I couldn't hear any distortions on either, but the 800's are really quite amazing, boy can these cats get loud! - the control and resolution didn't seem to change at all, even the sub bass stayed tight. The 600's blurred a little and the bass had more bloom at super high volume. The bass on the hd600's is not on par with the HD800's anyway, but they do have a nice controlled punch to them, though it doesn't extend very low in comparison.
  
 So that was it... HD800's stayed the same at stupid volume. The HD600's didn't seem to distort, but did not show the same control as they do at lower volumes.
  
 This was done with a Sansui 551 which is very loud (louder than any headphone amp). This amp is loud at 8 oclock - I cranked it up to 11-12 for the test. I wouldn't recommend anyone doing this simply for your hearing. I played in bands for 20 year so I'm used to loud and I only did it for very short periods. 
  
 A pointless test, but a fun one


----------



## Sorrodje

Don't get me wrong. HD800's slightly brightness is not an issue in my opinion. It's only the inherent personality of HD800.


----------



## daverich4

magiccabbage said:


> +1 also when using warm tubes like i am its not bright. I actually think the headphone is warm and big sounding. I suppose with a solid state amp its different story.




I'm with you. I listened to my HD800's for a year driven by a Headroom Max and they were so bright they made my HD600's sound like there was cotton stuffed in the cups. Finally, last January, I got tired of listening fatigue after an hour and bought a Woo Audio WA22, rolled in some of the recommended tubes and have been in listening heaven ever since.


----------



## navigavi

I do experience brightness from the HD 800's. But it's only on high volume and particular vocal songs that I really notice it. (hissing s) And even then it's not really disturbing. Though I do think my violectric stack (HPA v200, DAC v800) kind of tames it. I'm using kimber cable hero interlinks with stock hd800 cables.


----------



## roskodan

i think there is quite a difference between hd800s, there are bright ones, and may i say dark ones as well, with my i didn't experience any brightness, even at pot to the metal, v800 xlr  to v200, see graph in my pics
  
 while the one i auditioned at the local dealer store was quite sparkly, but not harsh, unlike the t1 which is on the harsh side in the peak region, all from v800 v200


----------



## Sorrodje

Indeed I've observed myself slight differences between two HD800. I've tested a new pair ( I don't know anything about its past burn in) that sound a tad brighter thant mine. Very slight difference though.  
  
 I think there're actually more differences between listeners . i persnally haven't any issue with HD800 treble but some people really can't use it more than few seconds. Other people can't tolerate my Ultrasone's treble . We tried a Beyerdynamic T1 recently and I didn't find it harsh ou picky but a friend of mine who haven't any issue with HD800 hates T1's treble peak. 
  
 We're not equal in front of sound signatures.  That said all HD800 measurements ( no ears , no personal bias ) show that HD800 has a slight emphasis in the 5-9 khz range.


----------



## BournePerfect

I've owned 3 different HD800s from the 14xxx-19xxx rang and they've all sounded identical to my ears-only changing as the upstream gear changed. That said-there's already another thread discussing this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/646871/new-hd-800-very-different-than-the-old-hd-800
  
 -Daniel


----------



## magiccabbage

Any takers? 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/687115/sennheiser-orpheus-he90-and-hev90


----------



## Sorrodje

bourneperfect said:


> I've owned 3 different HD800s from the 14xxx-19xxx rang and they've all sounded identical to my ears-only changing as the upstream gear changed. That said-there's already another thread discussing this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The two HD800 I compared were plugged in the same rig.  They shared quite the same signature for sure. The Demo model what a tad brighter than mine though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. A friend of mine was there and agreed with me. We tried to use the two HD800 in order to A/B my MG Head VS a trafomatic Head one and we perceived more brightness from one rig. then we plugged the two HD800 in the same amp ( the MG Head) and we could still notice differences. We stopped using the demo model immediately. Our interest was to compare amps not cans.


----------



## DarKen23

sorrodje said:


> bourneperfect said:
> 
> 
> > I've owned 3 different HD800s from the 14xxx-19xxx rang and they've all sounded identical to my ears-only changing as the upstream gear changed. That said-there's already another thread discussing this
> ...


 
 Its possible that hes just _being nice_ and _agreeing _with you so you dont look loony 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Im just teasing


----------



## Sorrodje

darken23 said:


> Its possible that hes just _being nice_ and _agreeing _with you so you dont look loony
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## LugBug1

I personally think that there will be differences in hd800's. It stands to reason... No headphone is going to be identical, but its safe to say that the differences will vary. 
  
 The only headphone that I've owned a few of has been the K701.. The 3 that I've owned have all sounded different.. This is my only experience of this, but I have no reason to believe it will not be the same for all headphones. If this wasn't the case, then Sennheiser wouldn't bother to keep record of your individual drivers for matching incase they ever need repairing. If they all sounded the same then any hd800 driver would do!


----------



## BournePerfect

lugbug1 said:


> I personally think that there will be differences in hd800's. It stands to reason... No headphone is going to be identical, but its safe to say that the differences will vary.
> 
> The only headphone that I've owned a few of has been the K701.. The 3 that I've owned have all sounded different.. This is my only experience of this, but I have no reason to believe it will not be the same for all headphones. If this wasn't the case, then Sennheiser wouldn't bother to keep record of your individual drivers for matching incase they ever need repairing. If they all sounded the same then any hd800 driver would do!


 
  
 Were the AKG's all new? I know my pair(s) changed pretty markedly throughout the eternal burn in requirement for them. Just sayin'.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## silversurfer616

We need an emoticon for "yawning"!


----------



## BournePerfect

silversurfer616 said:


> We need an emoticon for "yawning"!


 
  
 Yes-and it should have a guy wearing an HD800 paired to a solid state amp...
  
 *yawns*
  
 -Daniel


----------



## brunk

bourneperfect said:


> Yes-and it should have a guy wearing an HD800 paired to a solid state amp...
> 
> *yawns*
> 
> -Daniel


 
 +1


----------



## nigeljames

bourneperfect said:


> Yes-and it should have a guy wearing an HD800 paired to a solid state amp...
> 
> *yawns*
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Ha...Ha...Ha..........*NO!!*


----------



## roskodan

i can see someone keeping his whole lot of ss amps in a sack... in the basement


----------



## LugBug1

bourneperfect said:


> Were the AKG's all new? I know my pair(s) changed pretty markedly throughout the eternal burn in requirement for them. Just sayin'.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 ***Yaaawwwwnnn** eeh sorry, I'm a bit tired.  Erm.. One was new and the other two were second hand. Suppose they al**yaawwwwn** Sorry, all had different hours on them.. Zzzzzzzzz...


----------



## brunk

roskodan said:


> i can see someone keeping his whole lot of ss amps *in a sack... in the basement*


 
 You mean kinda like this guy?


----------



## LugBug1

^^^ that was just a little jokey Daniel, you know I luv ye man^^^ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Now back to sleep...


----------



## roskodan

btw
  
 i totally agree that all the hd800 sound the same... some more than others...


----------



## BournePerfect

Lolz all around.
  
 Niglejames-I really do intend on trying the M8 again in the near future. I could tell it was a fantastic amp-it was the M7's somewhat distant, 2D presentation that didn't mesh well at the time for me, with the already 'distant' presentation of the Senns. Definitely looking forward to pairing it again with the Eximus in the chain soon. Although I'll probably take a hard look at the Ragnarok at the same time, so we'll see. It really is nice to see you content for SO LONG with your AGD stack and various headphones-there's a lot to be said with that I think. Kind of like my ZDSE/HD800 combo was for the longest time.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## XVampireX

What is it I heard somewhere that there's going to be a new flagship from Sennheiser?


----------



## longbowbbs

xvampirex said:


> What is it I heard somewhere that there's going to be a new flagship from Sennheiser?


 
 Truly, it never stops....


----------



## FlySweep

xvampirex said:


> What is it I heard somewhere that there's going to be a new flagship from Sennheiser?


 
  
 Makes sense.. since they'll be discontinuing the HD600, too.


----------



## DarKen23

xvampirex said:


> What is it I heard somewhere that there's going to be a new flagship from Sennheiser?


 
 The HD800 are tough to beat to be crowned the new flagship. Even if it does take that title, for many, the HD800 would remain #1 from sennheiser.


----------



## longbowbbs

I heard the new Flagship will incorporate transporter technology to bring each band live into your listening room....


----------



## palmfish

longbowbbs said:


> I heard the new Flagship will incorporate transporter technology to bring each band live into your listening room....




No amp needed, Finally an end to the SS vs. tube debate!


----------



## longbowbbs

palmfish said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I heard the new Flagship will incorporate transporter technology to bring each band live into your listening room....
> ...


----------



## BournePerfect

longbowbbs said:


> I heard the new Flagship will incorporate transporter technology to bring each band live into your listening room....


 
  
 Meh. My DP-1 already does that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 -Daniel


----------



## Appl314

flysweep said:


> Makes sense.. since they'll be discontinuing the HD600, too.


 
 Think that the 800s would be reduced in price if this happened?


----------



## magiccabbage

xvampirex said:


> What is it I heard somewhere that there's going to be a new flagship from Sennheiser?


 
 really where did you hear this?


----------



## Dopaminer

Actually I spoke with Axel at Sennheiser myself.  He confided that the upcoming (spring 2014) HD850 will include a trepanning kit.  The new 18mm drivers will be implanted through the cranium, behind each ear.  Finally, a single, 43mm sub-harmonic enhancing driver will be implanted in the rear or top of the skull.  This wireless system will run on the 2.8khz Kleer system, and link to Sennheiser`s new 24/192 streaming system.  The antenna will be a few hair plugs, positioned where ever the user wishes.  
  
 Some images:  

 Axel`s early design sketches:
  

  
 Final image from the pdf installation manual, for the right stereo driver:
  

  
 Skull of early research volunteer, showing woofer port:


----------



## Audio Jester

FINALLY! I have been waiting for Sennheiser to remove that last bit of veil between my brain and the music!


----------



## macbob713

This would truly be a head turning design!


----------



## DarKen23

appl314 said:


> flysweep said:
> 
> 
> > Makes sense.. since they'll be discontinuing the HD600, too.
> ...


----------



## ogodei

dopaminer said:


> Actually I spoke with Axel at Sennheiser myself.  He confided that the upcoming (spring 2014) HD850 will include a trepanning kit.  The new 18mm drivers will be implanted through the cranium, behind each ear.  Finally, a single, 43mm sub-harmonic enhancing driver will be implanted in the rear or top of the skull.  This wireless system will run on the 2.8khz Kleer system, and link to Sennheiser`s new 24/192 streaming system.  The antenna will be a few hair plugs, positioned where ever the user wishes.
> 
> Some images:
> 
> ...


 
  
 I helped Sennheiser design the new flagship, and you have _completely_ misinterpreted these documents. (Frankly, I'm concerned that you were able to get hold of these at all, I suspect the R&D database may have been hacked!) 
  
 We wanted to dramatically expand the soundstage for the new phones, and merely changing from SE to balanced connectors just wasn't going to do it.  So we have designed a new connector which plugs _directly into the artists' brains_! "From the mind of the musician and right to you!" (TM).  The attached documents show some of our artists being fitted for the connection, all for your listening pleasure.
  
 Plus, we extended the bottom end.


----------



## DarKen23

ogodei said:


> dopaminer said:
> 
> 
> > Actually I spoke with Axel at Sennheiser myself.  He confided that the upcoming (spring 2014) HD850 will include a trepanning kit.  The new 18mm drivers will be implanted through the cranium, behind each ear.  Finally, a single, 43mm sub-harmonic enhancing driver will be implanted in the rear or top of the skull.  This wireless system will run on the 2.8khz Kleer system, and link to Sennheiser`s new 24/192 streaming system.  The antenna will be a few hair plugs, positioned where ever the user wishes.
> ...


In that case, I'll pass! Thanks for saving me money


----------



## wink

> Originally Posted by *silversurfer616*
> 
> 
> 
> We need an emoticon for "yawning"!


----------



## magiccabbage

A Sennheiser rep told me that meier audio sell ex demoed headphones and that the prices on there site are low because they were heavily used in stores and then re-sold. I presume this is ********. Does anyone have any info on this?


----------



## roskodan

low!?! i only see the one that sells for EUR 1195, this isn't low
  
 this is lower
  
 http://www.officinadelsuono.eu/prodotti/cuffie/sennheeiser-hd-800-silver-cuffia-circumaurale/
  
 http://www.audioimpact.it/off_sennheiser_hd800.htm


----------



## magiccabbage

roskodan said:


> low!?! i only see the one that sells for EUR 1195, this isn't low
> 
> this is lower
> 
> ...


 
 are those legitimate and new?


----------



## LugBug1

I'm sure any distributor would state that they were 'ex demo' if they were. It wouldn't be worth the risk otherwise.


----------



## roskodan

yes, but ask the sellers, cos part of the stock may be demos from their retail store


----------



## BournePerfect

Does Jan even have a retail floor?? I seriously doubt he would sell demo units without notifying people. In fact-I know Senn got on him about a year or less ago for selling the HD800 cheap, and had to raise his prices at that time. None of the 2 (3?) I bought from him had any indication that they were anything other than N.I.B.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## magiccabbage

bourneperfect said:


> Does Jan even have a retail floor?? I seriously doubt he would sell demo units without notifying people. In fact-I know Senn got on him about a year or less ago for selling the HD800 cheap, and had to raise his prices at that time. None of the 2 (3?) I bought from him had any indication that they were anything other than N.I.B.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 I presume you are right and that he only sells new ones. I think the Sennheiser rep was talking bull-crap. I am currently trying to find his name. When i do i will make a compliant.


----------



## BournePerfect

Maybe shoot Jan an email too-I'm sure he can probably clarify this-at least I'm sure he's want to set the record straight either way-especially in regards to the rep's comments...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## skeptic

The sliders on my hd800's headband seem to have loosened up a bit over time, and I was curious if anyone has experienced this or knows of a way to tighten them/increase whatever resistance is supposed to prevent inadvertent sliding?  The cups don't ever slide when I'm wearing them, but when I pick them up by the headband, one cup or the other sometimes slides a notch.  Annoying.


----------



## magiccabbage

bourneperfect said:


> Maybe shoot Jan an email too-I'm sure he can probably clarify this-at least I'm sure he's want to set the record straight either way-especially in regards to the rep's comments...
> 
> -Daniel


 
 I sent an email earlier, waiting on reply.


----------



## DarKen23

magiccabbage said:


> A Sennheiser rep told me that meier audio sell ex demoed headphones and that the prices on there site are low because they were heavily used in stores and then re-sold. I presume this is ********. Does anyone have any info on this?


Lol


----------



## BrahmaDogAlpha

I finally joined the club...


----------



## philo50

very nice.....congrats


----------



## sp3llv3xit

brahmadogalpha said:


> I finally joined the club...


 
  Which Beyerdynamic is that beside the HD800?


----------



## brunk

sp3llv3xit said:


> Which Beyerdynamic is that beside the HD800?


 
 MMX 300 gaming headphones - DT770 32ohm with an aviation-grade mic basically.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

brunk said:


> MMX 300 gaming headphones - DT770 32ohm with an aviation-grade mic basically.


 


 Ah... The CF cups caught my attention.  They look very attractive.


----------



## hekeli

bourneperfect said:


> I know Senn got on him about a year or less ago for selling the HD800 cheap, and had to raise his prices at that time.


 
  
 Perhaps it was because he's openly selling them outside of EU and Senn doesn't like it.
  
 I paid also 950€ for fresh new from a computer retail store, advertised price. I consider that the "standard" anyone should accept to pay (like those italian stores).
  
 (950€ - ~20% VAT = ~1100 USD)


----------



## navigavi

Quote:


brahmadogalpha said:


> I finally joined the club...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## navigavi

Oh, my bad. After some googling I found out it's the HPS-T from Woo Audio. Very nice


----------



## DarKen23

brahmadogalpha said:


> I finally joined the club...


lovin that crunk juice mug.  welcome aboard


----------



## DarKen23

navigavi said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> brahmadogalpha said:
> ...


i believe that stand is made by Wooaudio my good sir


----------



## navigavi

darken23 said:


> i believe that stand is made by Wooaudio my good sir


 

 Thanks Darken23,
  
 Bought one myself yesterday. Delivery scheduled today


----------



## brunk

navigavi said:


> Thanks Darken23,
> 
> Bought one myself yesterday. Delivery scheduled today


 
 Their stands are top notch quality, i have a mini silver one from them. I also have some handmade bamboo stands i like very much too


----------



## BleaK

Guess I'm joining you guys in a few days! Serial number is 049**, so I guess they are pretty old. They still look really good though:
  

  
 (Why is the picture turned, how do I edit this? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## brunk

bleak said:


> Guess I'm joining you guys in a few days! Serial number is 049**, so I guess they are pretty old. They still look really good though:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Fixed it for you  Great avatar by the way.


----------



## BleaK

brunk said:


> Fixed it for you  Great avatar by the way.




Thank you and thank you! I think Ayreon is maybe the most underrated music project in our modern days. I always say to people that if you like Pink Floyd, you will love Ayreon.


----------



## preproman

brunk said:


> Fixed it for you


 
  
 That's Brunk for you.  He fixes everything.   An up and coming star..


----------



## brunk

preproman said:


> That's Brunk for you.  He fixes everything.   An up and coming star..


 
 I'm getting there...


----------



## DarKen23

brunk said:


> preproman said:
> 
> 
> > That's Brunk for you.  He fixes everything.   An up and coming star..
> ...


 
 brunken audio does it again


----------



## songmic

bleak said:


> Thank you and thank you! I think Ayreon is maybe the most underrated music project in our modern days. I always say to people that if you like Pink Floyd, you will love Ayreon.


 
  
 I never heard of Ayreon, but I do love Pink Floyd (one of my top 5 fav bands). I will surely give Ayreon a listen.


----------



## brunk

songmic said:


> I never heard of Ayreon, but I do love Pink Floyd (one of my top 5 fav bands). I will surely give Ayreon a listen.


 






 Yeah he is very cool. For starters, I recommend the album "Into the Electric Castle". If you want an added twist, get TB Isone for a great experience. Do note that most his albums are stories, and it's recommended to have time for the full duration of the album.


----------



## magiccabbage

brunk said:


> Yeah he is very cool. For starters, I recommend the album "Into the Electric Castle". If you want an added twist, get TB Isone for a great experience. Do note that most his albums are stories, and it's recommended to have time for the full duration of the album.


 
 Sounds interesting - i will give this a go as well .


----------



## palmfish

bleak said:


> Thank you and thank you! I think Ayreon is maybe the most underrated music project in our modern days. I always say to people that if you like Pink Floyd, you will love Ayreon.




Thanks for the recommendation. Im listening to "Into the Electric Castle" right now. Definitely interesting. I'm hearing more Rush than Floyd so far... Kind of Spocks Beard "ish" actually.


----------



## brunk

palmfish said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. Im listening to "Into the Electric Castle" right now. Definitely interesting. I'm hearing more Rush than Floyd so far... Kind of Spocks Beard "ish" actually.


 
 Yeah, Ayreon is great for Sci-Fi / Fantasy lovers. I'd wager that if Pink Floyd was formed in this era, he would be very similar to Ayreon, but yeah he is more on the faster side of Prog Rock like Rush. Another good album is "The Human Equation" and just days ago a new album has finally been released that I will be listening to sometime this week.


----------



## Jd007

i know its been said before but i just experienced this again last night: watching movies with the hd800 is soo good. gets a bit weird/scary at times when sounds in the movie sound like they are coming from my home (had to pause the movie to make sure it was actually from the film)! this has happened to me multiple times in difference movies now with the hd800, and never had this feeling with my hd650 before. maybe my new dac helps too but mostly the hd800 i think.


----------



## Maxvla

Happens to me all the time. Strangely it's mostly bass stuff that gets me to check. HD800 is bass light, ya know, right?


----------



## bearFNF

I keep thinking someone is at the door, so I stop the movie and go check.  Need to get a light for the door bell...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (and phone)


----------



## Bolardito

Listening to Colleen's The Weighing of the Heart with the HD800 OMG..utterly sublime


----------



## BournePerfect

That Luxman sure has a way with the Senns. 

-Daniel


----------



## nk77

bolardito said:


> Listening to Colleen's The Weighing of the Heart with the HD800 OMG..utterly sublime


 
  
 Very interesting music! Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## brunk

Thanks for the album recommendation. For those that want a generally excellent resource for highly rated material, check out metacritic's all-time high list
  
http://www.metacritic.com/browse/albums/score/metascore/all?sort=desc&view=condensed


----------



## BournePerfect

Nice to see my avatar sky high on that list.  Thanks brunk.

-Daniel


----------



## Dopaminer

jd007 said:


> i know its been said before but i just experienced this again last night: watching movies with the hd800 is soo good. gets a bit weird/scary at times when sounds in the movie sound like they are coming from my home ...


 
  
 Trombone Shorty tracks often include cow bell, and I swear that cow bell is right THERE, every time.  The imaging`s just amazing.


----------



## Dopaminer

bourneperfect said:


> That Luxman sure has a way with the Senns.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Which Luxman, Daniel?  
 I amp going out to test desktops this afternoon .  .  .  
  
 Edit:  Oh, I see on your profile it`s the P-1u.  I`ve auditioned that one many times, as well as the P-700u, the balanced monster that`s $6k overseas but $3k here.  And a good shop has a floor unit on sale for $2k, with Luxman warranty.  
  
 Either will occupy 40% of my desk !  
  
 Do you prefer the Luxman to your Woo ? ?


----------



## Bolardito

bourneperfect said:


> That Luxman sure has a way with the Senns.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You cannot imagine how happy I am with that amp.. I got the Anedio D2 which is the perfect partner for the Luxman. I think I couldn't built a better rig for the money (got the D2 refurbished for US 999 directly from Anedio).


----------



## Bolardito

Here is my rig..


----------



## Dopaminer

That`s a great looking set up. . . .    
  
 Both Luxmans are at the top of my list, and I`ve heard them many times because basically every audio shop in Tokyo has them out for people to audition headphones with.   The other option is Sennheiser`s HDVA 600, which I spent a long time with 2 weeks ago at the Tokyo show.  Pretty freaking amazing, I think, but it was noisy room as usual.  Those are coming in to Tokyo in a couple of weeks, and prices the same as the P-1u.    
  
 I`m also going to this little shop today with my Mac and my hd800s and my DAC, to audition their in-house tube amps.  
  
 http://www.andix.co.jp/


----------



## Fearless1

HD800 newbie here. With a quick story.
  
 I borrowed a set from  a friend a couple of months ago and tried them with my assortment of middle range amps (Audio GD SA31, Lyr, DV337Se and etc..) and a few vintage receivers and liked them very much, but did not fall in love like the first time I heard the HE-500 or the Lcd-2s
  
 While in Denver, attending a horrible business meeting, I  heard the HD800 on his amp and my jaw dropped.
  
 His setup was a Bitfrost uber (hey, I have one of those) into a Fosgate Signature amp, I was stunned. The exaggerated treble that I heard from them with my gear turned into detail,  the mids that I did not hear on my equipment turned into liquid golden mids that had me close to tears, and the lack of bass turned into the tightest most precise bass that these ears have heard with any head phone. Needless to say I now own the same amp and HD800 and as close to the end of this quest as I have ever been.
  
 I am sure I am preaching to the choir, but when I read about how proper synergy between the amp and the HD800 is crucial  over and over I shrugged it off and assumed it was over- exaggerated, it is not. The HD800 is just an incredible sounding HP.


----------



## BournePerfect

dopaminer said:


> Which Luxman, Daniel?
> I amp going out to test desktops this afternoon .  .  .
> 
> Edit:  Oh, I see on your profile it`s the P-1u.  I`ve auditioned that one many times, as well as the P-700u, the balanced monster that`s $6k overseas but $3k here.  And a good shop has a floor unit on sale for $2k, with Luxman warranty.
> ...


 
  
 Yes I sold my P1-u to Bolardito. Truly an amazing combo with the HD800-gives them beautiful body and tonality rarely heard from the Senn. I did in fact like the Luxman much more than the WA5LE-had them both in my house for a while together-and listened to the Luxman 100% of the time other than for some quick comparison purposes. Have you heard the P700u? How does it compare? Maybe we can work something out and you can snatch me that floor model?? 
  


bolardito said:


> You cannot imagine how happy I am with that amp.. I got the Anedio D2 which is the perfect partner for the Luxman. I think I couldn't built a better rig for the money (got the D2 refurbished for US 999 directly from Anedio).


 
 I miss it dearly. If only it had a bit more transparency (or a brighter dec like your D2)-the pairing would have been perfect I think. Glad it's serving you so well, and that the Post Office finally came through. 
  
  


fearless1 said:


> HD800 newbie here. With a quick story.
> 
> I borrowed a set from  a friend a couple of months ago and tried them with my assortment of middle range amps (Audio GD SA31, Lyr, DV337Se and etc..) and a few vintage receivers and liked them very much, but did not fall in love like the first time I heard the HE-500 or the Lcd-2s
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep-a lesson many a Headfier have failed to learn.  Congrats.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dopaminer

bourneperfect said:


> Yes I sold my P1-u to Bolardito. Truly an amazing combo with the HD800-gives them beautiful body and tonality rarely heard from the Senn. I did in fact like the Luxman much more than the WA5LE-had them both in my house for a while together-and listened to the Luxman 100% of the time other than for some quick comparison purposes. Have you heard the P700u? How does it compare? Maybe we can work something out and you can snatch me that floor model??
> 
> -Daniel


 
 I had the eargasmic pleasure of spending a couple of hours on the P-700u attached to a Marantz SACD player, A/Bing 4 headphones: HD800, HD700, T1 and LCD3.  It was when I decided to go high-end headfi, about 3 months ago.  They all sounded fantastic but by far my faves were the 800s. (The audezes were disqualified early because they are just way too hot/heavy for Japanese summers and Bangkok).  None of the phones were balanced, but the amp sounded so incredible.  I demo`d it again with balanced hd800s two weekends ago at the Tokyo show but the source was some ridiculous cheapo netbook playing pop****; not sure what the Luxman guys were thinking at that display.  One floor up Sennheiser had a row of their amps with balanced 800s, playing 16/44 modern jazz and to be honest, it sounded absolutely fantastic. After trundling back and forth trying to keep the sound signatures in my mind to A/B as best as possible, I came away thinking the Sennheiser amp won.   But I know Luxman well and in many ways they are a small company, full of utterly OCD audio maniacs and somehow more attractive for it.  The P-700u is one of those so incredibly over-engineered manifestations of obsession, like some of Canon`s camera lenses (the 8-15mm or the 17mm tilt-shift) that I feel like nobody could go wrong owning it.  I guess the same can be said for the P-1u.  .  . 
  
 I`d be happy to facilitate you purchasing the P-700u but Luxman, in true island mentality, doesn`t provide voltage compatibility and these are 100v only.  (the Senns are 100-240).  Still, if you wanna go for it let me know ! 
  
 http://www.audiounion.jp/ct/detail/used/96514/


----------



## DarKen23

songmic said:


> Your favorite music is metal and electronica, and you still decided to keep the HD800 in lieu of LCD-3? Unbelievable...


 
 My favorite is electronica and I kept the HD800 over the LCD2. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## hekeli

Electronica and metal yeah! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got rid of even LCD-3 and TH900 for HD800... soundstage, comfort, neutral tight bass, what's not to like. Everyone has their preferences.


----------



## Dopaminer

darken23 said:


> My favorite is electronica and I kept the HD800 over the LCD2. Nothing wrong with that.


 

 P L U S   O N E  !  !  !


----------



## scolaiw

+2

 I love electronica (not really a fan of metal) and I also picked HD 800 over the LCDs although in an ideal world I'd have access to both.


----------



## Sorrodje

HD800 is definetely fantastic for some electronica ( not all electronica though)


----------



## rawrster

I think the HD800 is great for everything but that's just me


----------



## BournePerfect

rawrster said:


> I think the HD800 is great for everything but that's just me




Not just you. 

-Daniel


----------



## Sorrodje

rawrster said:


> I think the HD800 is great for everything but that's just me


 
  
 I think so but with with some genre or some artists, i enjoy more my Ultrasone for example despite the fact HD800 is a better heaphone. That said, there's some genre ( Classical , ambient are examples that come to my mind) where HD800 is especially impressive.


----------



## brunk

Agred, electronica is great on the HD800s.


----------



## longbowbbs

bourneperfect said:


> rawrster said:
> 
> 
> > I think the HD800 is great for everything but that's just me
> ...


 
 Right there with you too....


----------



## Dopaminer

brunk said:


> Agred, electronica is great on the HD800s.


 
  
 I bought this from highresaudio.com:
  
 http://www.highresaudio.com/artist.php?abid=102965
  
 Pretty orgasmic; electronica produced in 24 bit.  Also loving my rips of great `90s Fluke, Underworld, Squarepusher, NIN, random drum n bass - that Everything But the Girl jungly album Walking Wounded sounds just amazing:  all that detail I never heard before. . . . 
  
 HD800s rule Planet Electronica.


----------



## joyway

HD800 is the King


----------



## Jd007

Comfort is a big factor for me. For people who listen occasionally for an hour in their listening room on a cd transport it's not an issue but I use my headphones for hours daily on a computer and comfort becomes a huge issue. Real discomfort in headphones don't really show until 3+ hours in. I couldn't stand the he-500 after a few hours. Even the hd650 becomes a bit uncomfortable after 4 hours or so. Hd800 is the only headphone that I've used that does not ever become uncomfortable even after 10+ hours of continuous use.


----------



## Fearless1

rawrster said:


> I think the HD800 is great for everything but that's just me


 
 +1


----------



## DarKen23

I think the only genre that I actually do not prefer using the HD800s are rock and hip-hop. Not that the HD800 does em bad, but because the LCD does those 2 so freakin well.


----------



## nigeljames

I actually prefer the HD800's to the LCD2.2's with well recorded rock & metal.


----------



## macbob713

I had the LCD3 and the HD800. After months of going back and forth, I sold the LCD3 and kept the HD800. To me the Senns just flat out sounded better and we're far more comfortable.
Recently I picked up the AKG K712, and for a time preferred them, but I have again gravitated back to the 800's full time.


----------



## uelover

Yup I concur! If I can only have one headphone it will be the hd800. 

The only negative point is that most amps that are said to pair well with it all costs a bomb!


----------



## silversurfer616

Try the Crack!


----------



## BournePerfect

uelover said:


> Yup I concur! If I can only have one headphone it will be the hd800.
> 
> The only negative point is that most amps that are said to pair well with it all costs a bomb!


 
  
 Just start with an m-Stage, then save for the big boys. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## brunk

silversurfer616 said:


> Try the Crack!


 
 +1 took the words right out of my mouth


----------



## uelover

Pardon me for my total noobness on soldering but where can I buy a ready made one just to satisfy the curiosity? 

I have a very good Svetlana2 with me but I'm wondering how much improvement will I get by going balanced (i.e. Gs x mkii) vs stratus. 

Couldn't find the sennheiser balanced amp in Singapore nor is their customer service replying to my email to them.


----------



## DarKen23

uelover said:


> Yup I concur! If I can only have one headphone it will be the hd800.
> 
> The only negative point is that most amps that are said to pair well with it all costs a bomb!


Yulong A18 with the HD800 has been my favorite amp so far. Especially for electronica!


----------



## Dopaminer

Yesterday I picked this up at a tube-maniac shop in Tokyo, totally handmade, hand-wound transformers, 1940 US miltary tubes, 24/192 dac, coax/opt/usb/analogue inputs; highgain/lowgain outs.  Totally silent.  Super powerful.  The HD800s are finally at home . . . 
  

  
 Now really keen to try a kit, probably Bottlehead - may just jump in and build the balanced Mainline !


----------



## sp3llv3xit

dopaminer said:


> Yesterday I picked this up at a tube-maniac shop in Tokyo, totally handmade, hand-wound transformers, 1940 US miltary tubes, 24/192 dac, coax/opt/usb/analogue inputs; highgain/lowgain outs.  Totally silent.  Super powerful.  The HD800s are finally at home . . .
> 
> 
> 
> Now really keen to try a kit, probably Bottlehead - may just jump in and build the balanced Mainline !


 


 Very sleek!


----------



## skeptic

silversurfer616 said:


> Try the Crack!


  

 Quote:


brunk said:


> +1 took the words right out of my mouth


 
 Nice to have some more company in the thread who share this opinion 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Crack is definitely_ _the budget option to beat in terms of amps that pair beautifully with hd800's.


----------



## Blurpapa

Wow Dopaminer! What a find!
 I will be headed to Tokyo soon. Would you be able to share the addresses of a few shops for me to go take a look?
  
 Thanks!!
  
 John
  
 Quote:


dopaminer said:


> Yesterday I picked this up at a tube-maniac shop in Tokyo, totally handmade, hand-wound transformers, 1940 US miltary tubes, 24/192 dac, coax/opt/usb/analogue inputs; highgain/lowgain outs.  Totally silent.  Super powerful.  The HD800s are finally at home . . .
> 
> 
> 
> Now really keen to try a kit, probably Bottlehead - may just jump in and build the balanced Mainline !


----------



## Rasmus

I just looove the looks of my HD 800's! <3 they're so huge and comfy


----------



## BleaK

Just got HD800 in and listening to it now! I can't believe people say that this is a bright headphone, it's sound perfectly natural to me!


----------



## Fearless1

bleak said:


> Just got HD800 in and listening to it now! I can't believe people say that this is a bright headphone, it's sound perfectly natural to me!


 
 I thought they were bright at first listen, then I realized that my ears just have never experienced the clarity and resolution that they produce.


----------



## subtle

bleak said:


> Just got HD800 in and listening to it now! I can't believe people say that this is a bright headphone, it's sound perfectly natural to me!


 
  
 It has the reputation it has for a reason.  It's simply a bright headphone.
  
 If you find their sound signature to be natural then congrats on finding the headphone that works for your ears.  In the end that's the main goal.


----------



## akhyar

Traded a 3-month old AK120 for a 6-month old HD800.
 Now hunting for a better amp than the iFi iCAN to drive the HD800 and TH600


----------



## MIKELAP

rasmus said:


> I just looove the looks of my HD 800's! <3 they're so huge and comfy


 
 And they fit like a glove its like getting into a Ferrari!


----------



## hunterxhunter

Where can I buy HD800 with a serial number over 20000? I'm afraid I will get a returned item in Amazon...


----------



## BournePerfect

It won't be a returned item unless you by a 'used' one through the Amazon Warehouse seller. Try Jan at Meir Audio. I bought all three of mine from him-and they all were the newest serial #s at the time...free shipping too and 'probably' at a discount.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Maxvla

Colorware is a good option to get custom coloration and latest serial at normal retail price $1500. When I got mine it was the highest serial I had seen yet. Custom paint job takes 3-4 weeks but is very much worth it as the stock Sennheiser paint tends to flake and the Colorware does not.


----------



## stevenliu0717

I bought mine from Headamp.com and got it last week. The serial number is 24×××. Pretty happy with this purchase


----------



## dleblanc343

rasmus said:


> I just looove the looks of my HD 800's! <3 they're so huge and comfy


 
 Very cool picture bro! These are truly one of the greatest headphones ever made in my opinion.
  
 P.S for those wondering about amazon and getting returned items, just because it is listed as brand new is not often the case with these kinds of products (i.e super high end headphones). The HD800 isn't sealed in the box it comes in, so it can easily be claimed as brand new. Buyers be careful!


----------



## Dopaminer

> Wow Dopaminer! What a find!
> I will be headed to Tokyo soon. Would you be able to share the addresses of a few shops for me to go take a look?
> 
> Thanks!!
> ...


 
  
 Sure John,
  
 I really recommend checking this place out, Andix Audio  
  
 http://www.andix.co.jp/
  
 They`re primarily a tube specialty shop, but they decided to start to make these headphone dac/amps.  They had a table at the Tokyo Headphone show a couple of weeks ago.  The owner, Mr. Ishii actually speaks English well and has several amp options to choose from, and he`s very friendly and open to letting you spend the day there testing everything.  At his suggestion I actually packed my laptop, balanced dac, hd800s and all my cables into his shop and demo`d several of his creations.  Highly recommended.  
  
 Andix is easy to find - just remember it`s right across the narrow street from the Akihabara "don quixote" store.  
  
 I also visited this cooky shop 
  
 http://www.e-kasuga.net/
  
 a headfier posted about their headphone amp, which I was also considering until I found the Andix :
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/580785/kasuga-ka-10sh-tube-amp-kit-finished
  
 Here are my `800s with the Andix:


----------



## RUMAY408

Need some serious help!  
  
 The hinge pin on my HD800 left ear cup popped out tonight.  I was able to put it back together along with the spring.  Seems to be working just fine now.  Seems like a weak link since this is the only piece that holds the cup to the headband.  It is still under warranty is this serious enough to send back?


----------



## brunk

rumay408 said:


> Need some serious help!
> 
> The hinge pin on my HD800 left ear cup popped out tonight.  I was able to put it back together along with the spring.  Seems to be working just fine now.  Seems like a weak link since this is the only piece that holds the cup to the headband.  It is still under warranty is this serious enough to send back?


 
 Was this through normal use? No crazy bending? I would look into replacement if it was under normal conditions IMO.


----------



## RUMAY408

brunk said:


> Was this through normal use? No crazy bending? I would look into replacement if it was under normal conditions IMO.


 
 Laid it down when I went out of the room, picked it up and the ear cup came off.  Easy to fix, I'm just concerned that it might continue to pop off.  No wear or tear to any of the pieces so unclear why it came off.  Really took me by surprise.


----------



## nk77

dopaminer said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 A splendid photo. Perhaps you could also try one with just the glow of the tubes lighting up the HD800s?


----------



## korzena

Some people claim HD800 have 'grey' sound, meaning not very colorful.
 (please note: I don't mean 'colored', I mean - not very rich in colors, if we compare shades of colors that make them richer to sounds' richness.
  
 I also had this impression when I listened to HD800 once. At that time I thought its because the source/amp were not making them justice.
  
 Unfortunately I haven't got a chance to audition HD800 since. Do you have the same impression of the 'grey' sound in HD800?


----------



## brunk

korzena said:


> Some people claim HD800 have 'grey' sound, meaning not very colorful.
> (please note: I don't mean 'colored', I mean - not very rich in colors, if we compare shades of colors that make them richer to sounds' richness.
> 
> I also had this impression when I listened to HD800 once. At that time I thought its because the source/amp were not making them justice.
> ...


 
 Usual Disclaimer: All IMO.
  
 The HD-800s were designed purposefully this way, it's a studio headphone. In a studio environment, you are seeking the best possible "translation" so that if it sounds good on them, it will sound good on virtually anything. They don't want to necessarily push something out with a cherry flavor since cherry wouldn't be compatible, with say, beef. Not the best analogy, but it gets the point across


----------



## korzena

brunk said:


> Usual Disclaimer: All IMO.
> 
> The HD-800s were designed purposefully this way, it's a studio headphone. In a studio environment, you are seeking the best possible "translation" so that if it sounds good on them, it will sound good on virtually anything. They don't want to necessarily push something out with a cherry flavor since cherry wouldn't be compatible, with say, beef. Not the best analogy, but it gets the point across


 
 Thanks for the answer. I thought HD800 were too expensive to be a pro studio phone
 Besides why a studio headphone cannot have a faithful representation of colors of sounds? I'd say it's an important part of music information.


----------



## skeptic

could you clarify what you mean by "colors of sound"? that's not exactly common parlance around here. 

hd800s have the fastest most detailed dynamic transducers ever made. I can't identify with the analogy to "grey." If anything, with certain source material, I would argue that they can sound too vivid to be enjoyable with certain amps subject to the topology and handling of high order harmonics.


----------



## PleasantSounds

korzena said:


> Thanks for the answer. I thought HD800 were too expensive to be a pro studio phone
> Besides why a studio headphone cannot have a faithful representation of colors of sounds? I'd say it's an important part of music information.


 
 In a concert the environment is determined, starting with microphones, going through cables, mixers, effects, amps, speakers, and ending with the acoustic properties of the venue. What you get is a finished product, hopefully at it's best.
 In studio work most of these factors are unknown, and the only reasonable choice is a compromise - the output must sound good through $2 IEMs on an mp3 player, in an elevator, a car player and on a high end audiophile system. On top of that there are individual preferences regarding volume level, tonal balance etc. Each of these environments and components colors the sound in it's own way. To have the best possible control over the final output, engineers tend to use components with possibly flat characteristics - that way you can have reasonably complex sound path without needing to worry about particular frequency suddenly booming or something like that. 
 Many audiophiles have pretty complex setups as well and then the choice of flat response curve is also very desirable - not because it is enjoyable to everyone out of the bat, but because it's easier to control it and tune it to their individual tastes and preferences.
 HD800 fits this purpose quite well, but no one says it's the only option. If your needs are different you have choices - there are Grados, Audezes and others that have different characteristics.


----------



## Omphalopsychite

I'm considering getting the HD800 and have been reading about its sensitivity to sources. 
  
 My rig is a DX100 & Portaphile 627X. Does anyone have experience with the HD800/627X pairing?
  
 Would this be a good match for the HD800?


----------



## Arcamera

korzena said:


> Thanks for the answer. I thought HD800 were too expensive to be a pro studio phone
> Besides why a studio headphone cannot have a faithful representation of colors of sounds? I'd say it's an important part of music information.


 
 I think what you mean is that it lacks 'euphony.' For instance, see David Mahler's excellent thread on "The Battle of the Flagships," and what he has to say about the HD800. On the other hand, it is a superbly neutral headphone-- the goal is to _not_ have any particular character, except transparency--to get out of the way and let the music be the place where the colour is. At the end of the day, we want our gear to disappear--leaving just the music. In the right conditions, the HD800 can do this trick very, very well. Not perfect of course, but many agree it's on the cutting edge for dynamic (headphone) transducers.


----------



## brunk

pleasantsounds said:


> In a concert the environment is determined, starting with microphones, going through cables, mixers, effects, amps, speakers, and ending with the acoustic properties of the venue. What you get is a finished product, hopefully at it's best.
> In studio work most of these factors are unknown, and the only reasonable choice is a compromise - the output must sound good through $2 IEMs on an mp3 player, in an elevator, a car player and on a high end audiophile system. On top of that there are individual preferences regarding volume level, tonal balance etc. Each of these environments and components colors the sound in it's own way. To have the best possible control over the final output, engineers tend to use components with possibly flat characteristics - that way you can have reasonably complex sound path without needing to worry about particular frequency suddenly booming or something like that.
> Many audiophiles have pretty complex setups as well and then the choice of flat response curve is also very desirable - not because it is enjoyable to everyone out of the bat, but because it's easier to control it and tune it to their individual tastes and preferences.
> HD800 fits this purpose quite well, but no one says it's the only option. If your needs are different you have choices - there are Grados, Audezes and others that have different characteristics.


 
 +1 Very well said.
  


arcamera said:


> I think what you mean is that it lacks 'euphony.' For instance, see David Mahler's excellent thread on "The Battle of the Flagships," and what he has to say about the HD800. On the other hand, it is a superbly neutral headphone-- the goal is to _not_ have any particular character, except transparency--to get out of the way and let the music be the place where the colour is. At the end of the day, we want our gear to disappear--leaving just the music. In the right conditions, the HD800 can do this trick very, very well. Not perfect of course, but many agree it's on the cutting edge for dynamic (headphone) transducers.


 
 I agree, and I have similar results with the HE-6 as well.


----------



## drez

brunk said:


> +1 Very well said.
> 
> I agree, and I have similar results with the HE-6 as well.


 
  
 Do you find much difference between the HE6 and HD800 in terms of smoothness/lushness with your rigs?


----------



## brunk

drez said:


> Do you find much difference between the HE6 and HD800 in terms of smoothness/lushness with your rigs?


 
 at both extremes of the audible range, yes i do. The HE-6 is overall much more linear in that aspect. If you clip those extremes off, it's a much closer comparison. Both are highly transparent, with the HD-800 eeking out just a bit more. For naturalness (richer in harmonic content) the HE-6 is the champ, where the HD-800 just decays too quickly, not giving out the full note. Pick your poison, I have both, but I can easily decide my "island" headphone


----------



## magiccabbage

brunk said:


> at both extremes of the audible range, yes i do. The HE-6 is overall much more linear in that aspect. If you clip those extremes off, it's a much closer comparison. Both are highly transparent, with the HD-800 eeking out just a bit more. For naturalness (richer in harmonic content) the HE-6 is the champ, where the HD-800 just decays too quickly, not giving out the full note. Pick your poison, I have both, but I can easily decide my "island" headphone


 
 which is?


----------



## brunk

magiccabbage said:


> which is?


 
 For me, it is the HE-6. There's enough transparency there for everything but the most critical listening sessions, which i don't do all day and would only choose HD-800 if it were part of my profession. Therefore, I can advance to the greater _ebb and flow_ of the HE-6. That's why it would be my island headphone.


----------



## hekeli

brunk said:


> Usual Disclaimer: All IMO.
> 
> The HD-800s were designed purposefully this way, it's a studio headphone.


 
  
 Bollocks, "reference" (well according to Sennheiser, "natural listening experience"..) != "studio"
  
 http://en-us.sennheiser.com/headphones/studio
  
 Those are "studio" phones. HD800 was never marketed as such.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

brunk said:


> For me, it is the HE-6. There's enough transparency there for everything but the most critical listening sessions, which i don't do all day and would only choose HD-800 if it were part of my profession. Therefore, I can advance to the greater _ebb and flow_ of the HE-6. That's why it would be my island headphone.


 
 You'd have to take some heavy gear to the island to run the HE-6.


----------



## brunk

shahzada123 said:


> You'd have to take some heavy gear to the island to run the HE-6.


 
 Hah! I sure would.


----------



## brunk

hekeli said:


> Bollocks, "reference" (well according to Sennheiser, "natural listening experience"..) != "studio"
> 
> http://en-us.sennheiser.com/headphones/studio
> 
> Those are "studio" phones. HD800 was never marketed as such.


 
 Ahh yes, you are correct. However there are plenty of people using it in a studio environment. I should have used a different operative.


----------



## korzena

skeptic said:


> could you clarify what you mean by "colors of sound"? that's not exactly common parlance around here.
> 
> hd800s have the fastest most detailed dynamic transducers ever made. I can't identify with the analogy to "grey." If anything, with certain source material, I would argue that they can sound too vivid to be enjoyable with certain amps subject to the topology and handling of high order harmonics.


 
 "Colors of sounds"...let's say one piano, like Steinway can play the same note as the other piano, but it can do it in a nicer way.


----------



## kamalz

korzena said:


> "Colors of sounds"...let's say one piano, like Steinway can play the same note as the other piano, but it can do it in a nicer way.


 

 .. In other words, the sound should more engaging to the listener, i think..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  This is m  first  accomplishment before stepping to another level.


----------



## kamalz

skeptic said:


> could you clarify what you mean by "colors of sound"? that's not exactly common parlance around here.
> 
> hd800s have the fastest most detailed dynamic transducers ever made. I can't identify with the analogy to "grey." If anything, with certain source material, I would argue that they can sound too vivid to be enjoyable with certain amps subject to the topology and handling of high order harmonics.


 

   Thanks to the ring radiator . Sometime  i think whether it is the same technology used  in ring radiator tweeter by scanspeak.
   The treble  sounded quite similar to my hearing


----------



## longbowbbs

I know the HD800 would be my island headphones. For my tastes is hits all the right buttons. Plus it is so comfortable. I have worn it for hours and you forget they are on your head. In a pinch I could survive with the HD650's too.


----------



## brunk

longbowbbs said:


> I know the HD800 would be my island headphones. For my tastes is hits all the right buttons. Plus it is so comfortable. I have worn it for hours and you forget they are on your head. In a pinch I could survive with the HD650's too.


 
 They are very comfortable, I agree. HifiMan and Audeze should take notes!


----------



## magiccabbage

brunk said:


> For me, it is the HE-6. There's enough transparency there for everything but the most critical listening sessions, which i don't do all day and would only choose HD-800 if it were part of my profession. Therefore, I can advance to the greater _ebb and flow_ of the HE-6. That's why it would be my island headphone.


 
 What do you use to drive your he6? I was thinking of getting the EF6 for audeze and hififman headphones but i would like to listen to hd800 on the ef6 also. Have you heard the ef6 by any chance?


----------



## korzena

> Originally Posted by *korzena*
> Some people claim HD800 have 'grey' sound...
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 "more engaging"....yes! And more enjoyable to ones' ears.
  
At the time of auditioning HD800, I had a chance to listen to other flagships, too, and the "sounds' colors" in Ultrasone E10, Denon D7000 or Audio-Technica W5000 were richer, more 'colorful'. 
In HD800 I liked almost everything except for these "sounds' colors" which appeared to me 'greyish'. And this would be my main objection in making the decision to buy these headphones.


----------



## Dopaminer

korzena said:


> "Colors of sounds"...let's say one piano, like Steinway can play the same note as the other piano, but it can do it in a nicer way.


 
  
  
 This is `timber`, no? 
  
  
  
 Also, on another, recent topic: the HD800s are too fragile for studio use IMO.  Studio gear needs to be indestructible and while I love my 800s,  I`m always super careful with them.  I hate touching the mesh...  And lots of people complain about paint chipping, though I treat mine like a newborn infant so no problems there, yet.  
  
 +1 on them being freakishly comfortable.


----------



## spkrs01

It has been a while since I have spent literally all day listening to the HD800. Without a doubt it is an excellent pair of Headphones.
  
 For me, powered by the Cavalli LAu is the best that I have ever heard my pair of HD800. The Lau has really taken the HD800 to new heights of performance..........


----------



## korzena

dopaminer said:


> This is `timber`, no?


 
  
 Yes, I believe it must be called 'timber'. Thanks for the right word!


----------



## philo50

korzena said:


> Yes, I believe it must be called 'timber'. Thanks for the right word!


 
 timbre


----------



## Maxvla

This is timber:


----------



## korzena

philo50 said:


> timbre




Yes!

So, is it correct to say that some headphones have nicer or more enjoyable timbre?


----------



## Dopaminer

maxvla said:


> This is timber:


 
  
 No no no.  That is " T I I I I I I I I M B E R  ! ! ! ! "  
  
 Yes you are right; my stupid mistake.  But let me ask you this: do you know how "timbre" is pronounced ?   Huh ?  Well, do you?????


----------



## korzena

Is it correct to say that some headphones have nicer or more enjoyable timbre in the same way as some musical instruments have?


----------



## philo50

korzena said:


> Is it correct to say that some headphones have nicer or more enjoyable timbre in the same way as some musical instruments have?


 
 yes indeed


----------



## roskodan

roskodan said:


> i think there is quite a difference between hd800s, there are bright ones, and may i say dark ones as well, with my i didn't experience any brightness, even at pot to the metal, v800 xlr  to v200, see graph in my pics
> 
> while the one i auditioned at the local dealer store was quite sparkly, but not harsh, unlike the t1 which is on the harsh side in the peak region, all from v800 v200


 
  
 i received the hd800 with the "peaky" graph, and must say they sound the same as the "flat" graph one i had (on the same violectric setup, same tracks), which is IMO just a proof that burning em in matters, i most categorically exclude from my experience that different hd800 may sound perceivably different (after a good burn in ofc) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  





 HD800 crafted to perfection, after 3 hd800 i can do nothing but approve !


----------



## korzena

philo50 said:


> yes indeed


 
 So, how do you guys find timbre of HD800 in comparison of other headphones' timbre?


----------



## BournePerfect

Like everything with the HD800-it comes down to the rest of your gear. For instance-on my Dynalo amp, the HD800's timbre sucks. On a Luxman P1u-it's the best I've ever heard. The joys of having such a remarkably transparent/neutral/detailed headphone...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## LugBug1

korzena said:


> So, how do you guys find timbre of HD800 in comparison of other headphones' timbre?


 
 I think Sennheiser phones in general are very good at reproducing natural timbre. Especially the HD600 and hd800. Tonality is very important to me and thats why I only own these two headphones these days. Other headphones do somethings better than the Senn's but when it comes to tone/timbre they are the best that I've heard. 
  
 The only thing I would criticize the HD800's in regards to timbre, is that the treble peaks can sometimes pronounce instruments a little more than what is natural. Piano for e'g can sound a little more 'ringy' as the decay of the high keys are highlighted and slightly exaggerated. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but this is where the HD600 are better imo. I think if the HD800's had the same treble frequency response as the 600's they would be the perfect hp. For me anyways..


----------



## MacedonianHero

bourneperfect said:


> Like everything with the HD800-it comes down to the rest of your gear. For instance-on my Dynalo amp, the HD800's timbre sucks. On a Luxman P1u-it's the best I've ever heard. The joys of having such a remarkably transparent/neutral/detailed headphone...
> 
> -Daniel


 
 That's interesting, I was more impressed with my now sold GS-1/HD800s than the ZD when I heard them both side by side.
  
 The other thing with a KG amp...if you don't like your DAC, it'll let you know it. The joys of having such a remarkably transparent/neutral/detailed amp.


----------



## korzena

lugbug1 said:


> I think Sennheiser phones in general are very good at reproducing natural timbre. Especially the HD600 and hd800. Tonality is very important to me and thats why I only own these two headphones these days. Other headphones do somethings better than the Senn's but when it comes to tone/timbre they are the best that I've heard.
> 
> The only thing I would criticize the HD800's in regards to timbre, is that the treble peaks can sometimes pronounce instruments a little more than what is natural. Piano for e'g can sound a little more 'ringy' as the decay of the high keys are highlighted and slightly exaggerated. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but this is where the HD600 are better imo. I think if the HD800's had the same treble frequency response as the 600's they would be the perfect hp. For me anyways..


 
  
  


bourneperfect said:


> Like everything with the HD800-it comes down to the rest of your gear. For instance-on my Dynalo amp, the HD800's timbre sucks. On a Luxman P1u-it's the best I've ever heard. The joys of having such a remarkably transparent/neutral/detailed headphone...
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 This may be the answer. I've auditioned HD-800 on a poor system. I should try them on a better source/amp. Although some people report this 'greyish' timbre of HD800. Would it mean the system is not good enough? I think the only way to check this to try HD800 out myself.


----------



## MacedonianHero

korzena said:


> This may be the answer. I've auditioned HD-800 on a poor system. I should try them on a better source/amp. Although some people report this 'greyish' timbre of HD800. Would it mean the system is not good enough? I think the only way to check this to try HD800 out myself.


 
 Absolutely the HD800s would sound better on a better source/dac/amp. They're one of the most transparent headphones out there. The greyish timbre would mean that they don't impart any real colour of their own on the recording. For the most part I agree with this.
  
 The problem with the HD800s is that it's not the cheapest venture when one considers what amp/dac that they need to properly drive them. I used to own the Lyr and it wasn't the greatest combination with them. While I did enjoy it with my (now sold) LCD-2s.
  
 At a minimum, the best amp I've heard with the HD800s was the WA2 or Soloist (for a SS option).


----------



## brunk

magiccabbage said:


> What do you use to drive your he6? I was thinking of getting the EF6 for audeze and hififman headphones but i would like to listen to hd800 on the ef6 also. Have you heard the ef6 by any chance?


 
 I use aDIY First Watt F5 that I built, with a LDR-based (a.k.a. lightspeed) preamp. I haven't heard the EF6, so I can only speculate.
  


bourneperfect said:


> Like everything with the HD800-it comes down to the rest of your gear. For instance-on my Dynalo amp, the HD800's timbre sucks. On a Luxman P1u-it's the best I've ever heard. The joys of having such a remarkably transparent/neutral/detailed headphone...
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 +1 Agreed, both a blessing and a curse. Blessing for your ears, curse for your wallet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





macedonianhero said:


> That's interesting, I was more impressed with my now sold GS-1/HD800s than the ZD when I heard them both side by side.
> 
> The other thing with a KG amp...if you don't like your DAC, it'll let you know it. The joys of having such a remarkably transparent/neutral/detailed amp.


 
 +1 "Everything matters"


----------



## skeptic

Timbre is simply a function of the amplitude and phase of overtones. These are the criteria that cause your ear to differentiate between an A on a trumpet and an A (in the same octave) played on a piano - or, in a more subtle example - between a realistic sounding note on a piano vs one that sounds badly reproduced. Overtones and harmonics are synonyms ... which is the basis for my reference above to amp topologies and the effect on harmonics. For example, some single ended tube designs tend to have more second order harmonic distortion which is, in modest amounts, often perceived as pleasing, filling out the sound. As a stark contrast, some ss designs use heavy global feedback to reduce noise and output impedance, but this can, depending on implementation, create disproportionate high order distortion which alters timbre in a far less pleasing way. 

This is a long winded way of saying I agree with those above who assert that the selection of your source and amp is of considerable importance in getting pleasing FR and timbre from hd800s, particularly given their 6k peak which is right in the range that will effect easily audible low order harmonics.

It is a function of careful selection not dollars spent. Find an opportunity to try the hd800s with a bh crack with speedball and an odac (or any other competent cheap dac) for example. Half the cost of a WA2 and a much much better match to my ears (and many others it would seem per the crack thread).

Presently waiting on a replacement transistor to complete my bh mainline. While objectively a far better amp, I am very curious to see if I ultimately prefer it to my crack on the overall subjective scale of enjoyability.


----------



## roskodan

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






roskodan said:


> roskodan said:
> 
> 
> > i think there is quite a difference between hd800s, there are bright ones, and may i say dark ones as well, with my i didn't experience any brightness, even at pot to the metal, v800 xlr  to v200, see graph in my pics
> ...


 
  
  
  
  


 which ofc means i'm back in the club
 i took a shot of the "new" pair but than i saw little bottle of alcohol in the background, is it legal to post such photos here?


----------



## palmfish

skeptic said:


> Timbre is simply a function of the amplitude and phase of overtones. These are the criteria that cause your ear to differentiate between an A on a trumpet and an A (in the same octave) played on a piano - or, in a more subtle example - between a realistic sounding note on a piano vs one that sounds badly reproduced. Overtones and harmonics are synonyms ... which is the basis for my reference above to amp topologies and the effect on harmonics. For example, some single ended tube designs tend to have more second order harmonic distortion which is, in modest amounts, often perceived as pleasing, filling out the sound. As a stark contrast, some ss designs use heavy global feedback to reduce noise and output impedance, but this can, depending on implementation, create disproportionate high order distortion which alters timbre in a far less pleasing way.
> 
> This is a long winded way of saying I agree with those above who assert that the selection of your source and amp is of considerable importance in getting pleasing FR and timbre from hd800s, particularly given their 6k peak which is right in the range that will effect easily audible low order harmonics.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Im anxious to hear what you think. When I compared the Mainline and Crack (w/Speedball) side by side, I preferred the Crack. It was just a little warmer and more musical sounding to my ears.


----------



## macbob713

Anyone here try the Sennheiser HDVD 800 with these phones? If so, what were your impressions? I'm considering upgrading my Schitt Lyr for the HDVD 800. Need some advice.


----------



## MattTCG

After admiring the hd800 from afar for a very long time, I will finally get to hear them this coming week on loan. Very excited!!


----------



## fortitude

matttcg said:


> After admiring the hd800 from afar for a very long time, I will finally get to hear them this coming week on loan. Very excited!!





Incredibly comfortable, the hd800s are my only set now that I've sold my audezes due to the awful headband. 

Going to try a bottlehead + speedball next, supposed to be an incredible combo on the cheap.


----------



## magiccabbage

macbob713 said:


> Anyone here try the Sennheiser HDVD 800 with these phones? If so, what were your impressions? I'm considering upgrading my Schitt Lyr for the HDVD 800. Need some advice.


 
 you mean the hd800 on the hdvd800?


----------



## roskodan

magiccabbage said:


> macbob713 said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone here try the Sennheiser HDVD 800 with these phones? If so, what were your impressions? I'm considering upgrading my Schitt Lyr for the HDVD 800. Need some advice.
> ...


 

 isn't it obvious, it's the hd800 appreciation thread, now with all due respect... go make beer... http://www.head-fi.org/t/529140/show-us-your-head-fi-station-at-its-current-state-no-old-pictures-please/15735#post_9965186


----------



## magiccabbage

roskodan said:


> isn't it obvious, it's the hd800 appreciation thread, now with all due respect... go make beer... http://www.head-fi.org/t/529140/show-us-your-head-fi-station-at-its-current-state-no-old-pictures-please/15735#post_9965186


 
 wasn't obvious to me he said these phones. I have heard the HD800 with HDVD800 and it sounds great.


----------



## roskodan

i know i just took advantage to advertise my new hd800 photo, and make a joke with it, since you are from Ireland... hahaha... i'm so funny... hahaha
  
 edit: guess there is more than one GrumpyHero on this forum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 <- this is a joke too, you see there is a smiley, so you know
  
 edit: Cheers !!!


----------



## magiccabbage

roskodan said:


> i know i just took advantage to advertise my new hd800 photo, and make a joke with it, since you are from Ireland... hahaha... i'm so funny... hahaha
> 
> edit: guess there is more than one GrumpyHero on this forum
> 
> ...


 





.........no bother, i actually have a horrible pain in my stomach from drinking dodgy beer.


----------



## roskodan

Quote: by Rosko Dan 





> Dodgy Irish beer
> the final tuning touch
> for my German gear


 
 this is not a joke, it's a haiku


----------



## DarKen23

macbob713 said:


> Anyone here try the Sennheiser HDVD 800 with these phones? If so, what were your impressions? I'm considering upgrading my Schitt Lyr for the HDVD 800. Need some advice.


 
 Youre better off getting the HDVA600 and pairing that with your preferred dac


----------



## magiccabbage

darken23 said:


> Youre better off getting the HDVA600 and pairing that with your preferred dac


 
 I also did that with the nad m51


----------



## macbob713

magiccabbage said:


> you mean the hd800 on the hdvd800?



Yes, sorry for not being more specific. I listen to primarily cd's and SACD's from a Sony XA5400ES CD player, so a Dac isn't that important to me at this time.


----------



## Dopaminer

korzena said:


> So, how do you guys find timbre of HD800 in comparison of other headphones' timbre?


 
  
 I`m questioning the validity of the term `timbre` to evaluate audio gear.  I`ve just read through a few dictionary definitions and wikipedia, and the following quote sums up my skepticism:
  
  Timbre is..."...the psychoacoustician's multidimensional waste-basket category for everything that cannot be labeled pitch or loudness."
  
 It seems the term most acurately applies to human hearing`s ability to distinguish between sound sources that are producing the same quantitative sound, for example a trumpet and trombone playing the same notes, or two different pianos playing the same notes...   Also the abitliy to recognize and distinguish between human voices...   My understanding is that it does not represent a quality that itself can be said to be either good or bad, natural or unnatural.  
  
 I may be wrong. 
  
 Anyway I`m going back to listening to my HD800s.  I just love the fluxtion of these headphones.  Vastly superior to the fluxtion of any other headphone, IMO.  
  
 d


----------



## Dopaminer

macbob713 said:


> Yes, sorry for not being more specific. I listen to primarily cd's and SACD's from a Sony XA5400ES CD player, so a Dac isn't that important to me at this time.


 
 I spent some quality time, over two days, with the hd800 + hdvd800 and hdva600 at the tokyo show recently.  Truly awesome.  Right up there with the Luxmans that I was scurrying back and forth between, trying to A-B.  The sennheiser`s source was 16bit modern vocal jazz out of an unseen CD player, in balanced mode with Senn`s new 4xlr cable, which is also very nice - very light xlr.  I wasn`t able to A/B the supposedly weak DAC in the hdvd800 with the 600, because of the single source for both amps.  The senn guy told me the amplification in the 600 and 800 are identical.  I would go for the 600.  
  
 Of course, neither are as good as my Andix.


----------



## magiccabbage

macbob713 said:


> Yes, sorry for not being more specific. I listen to primarily cd's and SACD's from a Sony XA5400ES CD player, so a Dac isn't that important to me at this time.


 
 it sounded great. The amp is also gorgeous when its in front of you. I was very impressed with it.  It should be easy enough to audition in a store somewhere near you.


----------



## Dopaminer

magiccabbage said:


> it sounded great. The amp is also gorgeous when its in front of you.


 
  
  
 +1 on the gorgeous.  Also, the volume knob turns a shaft running the depth of the amp, visible in a glass window.  I could sit there for hours just turning that thing.  .   .


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> After admiring the hd800 from afar for a very long time, I will finally get to hear them this coming week on loan. Very excited!!


 
 I'm excited for you bro! Keep us informed.


----------



## LugBug1

dopaminer said:


> I`m questioning the validity of the term `timbre` to evaluate audio gear.  I`ve just read through a few dictionary definitions and wikipedia, and the following quote sums up my skepticism:
> 
> Timbre is..."...the psychoacoustician's multidimensional waste-basket category for everything that cannot be labeled pitch or loudness."
> 
> ...


 
 Agreed, but for our purpose in the appreciation of SQ in reproduction terms, it can be used as a term that labels the sound of an instrument, eg, 'good timbre' or 'unrealistic timbre' It's a lot easier than saying... 'the instruments sound real' or 'the double bass doesn't sound right'


----------



## korzena

lugbug1 said:


> Agreed, but for our purpose in the appreciation of SQ in reproduction terms, it can be used as a term that labels the sound of an instrument, eg, 'good timbre' or 'unrealistic timbre' It's a lot easier than saying... 'the instruments sound real' or 'the double bass doesn't sound right'


 
 I would say that "good timbre" is more specific description than 'real sound'. So I wouldn't say it is easier to say Of course, 'real sound' requires more than just real timbre reproduction.
  
 My initial question was however specifically about the timbre reproduction in HD800. As I said during my audition, HD800 seemed to 'give' instruments greyish timbre in comparison to other headphones I listened to (ED10, D7000, W5000). But I have been suggested here that the greyish timbre I've heard in HD800 was probably caused by using not a synergistic system/too low quality system with HD800. I believe it is possible and will try to make another audition of HD800 in a better system only if I get a chance.


----------



## LugBug1

korzena said:


> I would say that "good timbre" is more specific description than 'real sound'. So I wouldn't say it is easier to say Of course, 'real sound' requires more than just real timbre reproduction.
> 
> My initial question was however specifically about the timbre reproduction in HD800. As I said during my audition, HD800 seemed to 'give' instruments greyish timbre in comparison to other headphones I listened to (ED10, D7000, W5000). But I have been suggested here that the greyish timbre I've heard in HD800 was probably caused by using not a synergistic system/too low quality system with HD800. I believe it is possible and will try to make another audition of HD800 in a better system only if I get a chance.


 
 Yeah that has to be it. Some midprice hp amps that I've tried have been very dry sounding with HD800's. They really will let you know how your upstream gear sounds. I prefer vintage equipment these days because I prefer a warmer, fuller sound over dry/analytical. Dry/analytical amps are perfect for planar hp's such as the LCD2's. Every amp has its own sound, so its just a case of finding one that pleases you most. The HD800's are the only hp that I've heard that doesn't stamp its own character on the sound at all. It may emphasize certain aspects but it won't add any colour or take anything away. 
  
 A warmer, fuller sound doesn't have to be expensive either. Here's what I'm using at the mo...
  
 Arcam Black box dac (1989) with the famous early philips dac chip. It's warm and earthy and not without good detail. You don't get the same resolution as you do with the latest chips but ime too much resolution can be a little annoying with a headphone as transparent and sensitive as the hd800's. But that's just my subjective opinion.
  
 Paired with a Pioneer a lowly SA508 that has a sweet balanced tone without any hardness. This set up would cost you less than $300 in the second hand market. It looks nice imo and sounds beautiful.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Looking great LugBug!!  Long live the vintage steel. I'm about to use my sx1080 to put the hd800 to the test.


----------



## magiccabbage

lugbug1 said:


> Yeah that has to be it. Some midprice hp amps that I've tried have been very dry sounding with HD800's. They really will let you know how your upstream gear sounds. I prefer vintage equipment these days because I prefer a warmer, fuller sound over dry/analytical. Dry/analytical amps are perfect for planar hp's such as the LCD2's. Every amp has its own sound, so its just a case of finding one that pleases you most. The HD800's are the only hp that I've heard that doesn't stamp its own character on the sound at all. It may emphasize certain aspects but it won't add any colour or take anything away.
> 
> A warmer, fuller sound doesn't have to be expensive either. Here's what I'm using at the mo...
> 
> ...


 
 I recently heard the arcam and the nad m51 side by side. I expected to hear a world of difference between the 2 considering that one costs 2000+. I spent around 3 hours with the 2 of them. I was surprised to find the differences were really subtle. The nad was smoother and that was about it. I was using the hd800 of course and the HDVD600 and Wa2. 
  
 I think im happy enough with the arcam. I dont fancy paying an extra 1500 for a bit more smoothness.


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> I think im happy enough with the arcam. I dont fancy paying an extra 1500 for a bit more smoothness.


 





 Sacrilege!! Get that wallet out and reach for that last 5%!!


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> Sacrilege!! Get that wallet out and reach for that last 5%!!


 
 I think im gonna go for a Glenn OTL first then maybe ill do up the DAC. Maybe.


----------



## roskodan

longbowbbs said:


> Sacrilege!!


 
  
 rolf, this was so sincere from you
  
 and of course, we need to be all together in this, no backing off


----------



## Sorrodje

It's a shame. This thread should immediately be downgraded to "normal-fi" section.


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Sacrilege!! Get that wallet out and reach for that last 5%!!
> ...


 
 The amp is a bigger deal. Now to decide on a Glenn OTL or 300B!


----------



## longbowbbs

roskodan said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Sacrilege!!
> ...


 
 I resemble that!


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> ^^ Looking great LugBug!!  Long live the vintage steel. I'm about to use my sx1080 to put the hd800 to the test.


 
 Cheers bud, It's like I know for a fact that they're gonna sound great out of your sx1080 
  


magiccabbage said:


> I recently heard the arcam and the nad m51 side by side. I expected to hear a world of difference between the 2 considering that one costs 2000+. I spent around 3 hours with the 2 of them. I was surprised to find the differences were really subtle. The nad was smoother and that was about it. I was using the hd800 of course and the HDVD600 and Wa2.
> 
> I think im happy enough with the arcam. I dont fancy paying an extra 1500 for a bit more smoothness.


 
 Thats really cool. Ignore the 5 percenters my friend. Arcam were the first to build a commercial dac back in the day, they know their schiit.


----------



## Maxvla

longbowbbs said:


> The amp is a bigger deal. Now to decide on a Glenn OTL or 300B!



45


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Glenn 2a3!


----------



## macbob713

I would like to thank everyone who responded to my question on the HD800 paired with the HDVD800 and 600. One last question, my CD player has both balanced outputs and RCA jacks. I'm thinking of running the HD800 and HDVD600 in pure balanced mode, (once I order the balanced cables for the hd800 from Sennheiser). Anyone here compared the balanced vs unbalanced using these components?


----------



## magiccabbage

not me


----------



## roskodan

macbob713 said:


> I would like to thank everyone who responded to my question on the HD800 paired with the HDVD800 and 600. One last question, my CD player has both balanced outputs and RCA jacks. I'm thinking of running the HD800 and HDVD600 in pure balanced mode, (once I order the balanced cables for the hd800 from Sennheiser). Anyone here compared the balanced vs unbalanced using these components?


 

 look in the hdvd800-600 thread, most feedback is in big favor to the balanced output, most stating it being another league, for the better ofc


----------



## macbob713

roskodan said:


> look in the hdvd800-600 thread, most feedback is in big favor to the balanced output, most stating it being another league, for the better ofc




Ok, thanks for the tip.


----------



## palmfish

roskodan said:


> look in the hdvd800-600 thread, most feedback is in big favor to the balanced output, most stating it being another league, for the better ofc


 
  
 What is "better ofc?"


----------



## brunk

palmfish said:


> What is "better ofc?"


 
 "ofc" is internet slang for "of course"
  
 so he is saying "better of course"


----------



## DSlayerZX

Ok... this question has been bugging my mind for a while now.... has anyone that own both the buffalo DAC and balanced HD800 has tried a comparison between direct DAC driven vs having another amplifier?
  
 In theory the Buffalo DAC (in balance) provides more than enough power to properly drive the HD800, but ..... just out of curiosity, has anyone compared directly driven by the DAC vs having an amplifier in the middle. In one hand, directly out of the DAC is as pure as sound processing can be in most usual set ups... on the other hand, a headphone amplifier may provide the tiny extra juice HD800 might need.....


----------



## Wil

Ok, just a very quick question.
  
 I currently have a Lehmann BCL powering my HD800 (with custom after market silver/copper hybrid cables).
  
 The sound is very fast, very detailed but also way too sterile for my taste. And the lack of bass is disturbing me.
  
 I have the ALO Pan Am and the little amp is way more musical than the Lehmann, with a tad bit more bass as well.
  
 As such, i am looking for a replacement for the Lehmann. I listen to mostly Jazz (Coltrane, Ben Webster, Ella Fitzgerald etc etc), with a little classical and electro thrown in. I prefer a slightly warmish sound ( But not at the expense of a bloated bass and rolled off high end)
  
 I've shortlisted it the following amps -
  
 1) Yulong A18
 2) Woo Audio WA2
 3) Little Dot MK VIII SE
  
 Would be interested to listen to other opinions that are on hand.


----------



## roskodan

since i see you have grado and audeze too, i'll say try violectric, and a source change can make an even bigger difference in terms of warming up the sound
  
 and you are in singapore so maybe try some local tube esoterica


----------



## Dopaminer

I listened to the hd800s on the PanAm at the Tokyo show and was blown away by how good that little thing is...   
 I recently got the Andix HPA 45 tube dac/amp and it sounds as good/ better than anything I`ve heard the hd800s on, and I`ve auditioned a lot of amps, including the Luxman p700 and p1, as well as the Senn amps.   I don`t know if Andix is up for mail orders yet (there website looks like it`s from the first minutes of the internet), but in any event I recommend focusing on tubes.  I haven`t heard the Violectric amps but they sure have a great rep here on Headfi...
  
 BTW are your hd800s burned in?  Mine started to really blow my mind around the 150 hour mark. . .


----------



## roskodan

dopaminer said:


> I haven`t heard the Violectric amps but they sure have a great rep here on Headfi...


 
 especially if one is gonna use it (violectric v800 dac & v200 amp) with grados, lcd2s and hd800, but ofc in south east asia sure there are a lot of various flavors to choose from, the violectric setup would be more of a all in one, one for all solution, get 3 birds with one shot, but don't ask for esoteric magic, it's a correct and serious setup


dopaminer said:


> BTW are your hd800s burned in?  Mine started to really blow my mind around the 150 hour mark. . .


 
 noticed too, tend to smooth out when burned in comparing to when new out of the box, same with beyer t1, even shure se530


----------



## Wil

Hey all,
  
 Thanks for the quick replies.
  
 Yep, mine are used so def. burned in (Anaxilus mod-ed as well). 
  
 The Grado and Audeze are long gone i am afraid (Traded the Audeze for a UM Miracle - Those things sound, IMO, very much like the LCD-2!!!! They sound fantastic via the Pan AM).
  
 I forgot to mention that my source is the Teac UD501. No qualms with my DAC at the moment, it's (imo) even more detailed and smoother than the EE Minimax that i used to have.
  
 Perhaps something with a balanced connection will do the trick.
  
 The Andix looks rather awesome.
  
 Will listen to my Pan Am in the meantime while i ponder on the amp purchase...
  
 As much as i love my tubes ( I run a Sun Audio 2A3 and Almarro 318Bn in my speaker rig), i'm, purely based on a gut feeling, leaning towards the Yulong A18 (i've seen it described numerous times on the forum as being musical and warm).
  
 For anyone considering the Lehmann  to go with the HD800, may i suggest otherwise. The transparency and quickness may stun you at first, but it wears on you fast!


----------



## Wil

roskodan said:


> especially if one is gonna use it (violectric v800 dac & v200 amp) with grados, lcd2s and hd800, but ofc in south east asia sure there are a lot of various flavors to choose from, the violectric setup would be more of a all in one, one for all solution, get 3 birds with one shot, but don't ask for esoteric magic, it's a correct and serious setup
> noticed too, tend to smooth out when burned in comparing to when new out of the box, same with beyer t1, even shure se530


 
  
 The Violectric is another option...i've since sold my Grados and LCD2 (decided to keep just the HD800), but there are quite a few reports on the forum that the V200 + HD800 pairing is not too shabby indeed.
  
 Options...so many options...


----------



## Wil

dopaminer said:


> I listened to the hd800s on the PanAm at the Tokyo show and was blown away by how good that little thing is...
> I recently got the Andix HPA 45 tube dac/amp and it sounds as good/ better than anything I`ve heard the hd800s on, and I`ve auditioned a lot of amps, including the Luxman p700 and p1, as well as the Senn amps.   I don`t know if Andix is up for mail orders yet (there website looks like it`s from the first minutes of the internet), but in any event I recommend focusing on tubes.  I haven`t heard the Violectric amps but they sure have a great rep here on Headfi...
> 
> BTW are your hd800s burned in?  Mine started to really blow my mind around the 150 hour mark. . .


 
  
 I returned to the PanAm after sometime with the Lehmann / HD800 and was surprised at how much more slam it had in the mid bass as compared to the Lehmann. The Lehmann just sounded lifeless.
  
 The Andix looks awesome...but the ordering process looks quite onerous indeed.


----------



## roskodan

wil said:


> roskodan said:
> 
> 
> > especially if one is gonna use it (violectric v800 dac & v200 amp) with grados, lcd2s and hd800, but ofc in south east asia sure there are a lot of various flavors to choose from, the violectric setup would be more of a all in one, one for all solution, get 3 birds with one shot, but don't ask for esoteric magic, it's a correct and serious setup
> ...


 

 it that case for the hd800, go wild trying gear cos they really transform from setup to setup


----------



## roskodan

Quote:



wil said:


> Hey all,
> 
> The Grado and Audeze are long gone i am afraid (Traded the Audeze for a UM Miracle - Those things sound, IMO, very much like the LCD-2!!!! They sound fantastic via the Pan AM).


 
 if you plan to use iem-s at desktop than the violectric gear imo is among the best for the job


wil said:


> I forgot to mention that my source is the Teac UD501. No qualms with my DAC at the moment, it's (imo) even more detailed and smoother than the EE Minimax that i used to have.


 
  
 compared a hi-res cambridge dac to violectric v800 and AH! Njoe Tjoeb 4000 CD player, A/b-ing, and the and the sound was so much different between all of them, on some bad ass preamp, 60w calss a ss amp and opera prima speakers, after that i'm questioning amp matching other than for power quantity
  
 the cambridge being strident, the Ah! had some upgrade tube i think, and was very balanced and detailed, neutral warm and crystal transparent, awesome, the v800 being being a notch more warm and transparent and natural imo
  
     


> Originally Posted by *Wil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Perhaps something with a balanced connection will do the trick.
> 
> As much as i love my tubes ( I run a Sun Audio 2A3 and Almarro 318Bn in my speaker rig), i'm, purely based on a gut feeling, leaning towards the Yulong A18 (i've seen it described numerous times on the forum as being musical and warm).


 
 balance sources tend to be more analytic
  
 and an audiophile and musician, that came by my place recently, said the hd800 on the Yulong where much more bright, unnatural, than on the violectric, which i think is more neutral than really warm, so... but he had a 5k$ sacd player as source so maybe that was the cause to the "excessive" brightness
  
 anyway i just wanted to point that i found that sources made  the "sound", amps and preamps if correct where just muscles without coloration (if you do not compare extremes like tube vs ic-s, so to speak) ofc this is a little extreme since nothing sounds the same same, but you get the point i hope


----------



## Greed

roskodan said:


> Quote:
> if you plan to use iem-s at desktop than the violectric gear imo is among the best for the job
> 
> compared a hi-res cambridge dac to violectric v800 and AH! Njoe Tjoeb 4000 CD player, A/b-ing, and the and the sound was so much different between all of them, on some bad ass preamp, 60w calss a ss amp and opera prima speakers, after that i'm questioning amp matching other than for power quantity
> ...


 
  
 I'm sorry but how the hell did you arrive at this conclusion?


----------



## roskodan

i was referring to rca and xlr out on the same device, go ask the manufacturers


----------



## brunk

roskodan said:


> i was referring to rca and xlr out on the same device, *go ask the manufacturers*


 
 [Sarcasm alert]
 Oh, you mean the people selling the gear? Yeah...that's not biased information is it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 However, there are some devices purposefully made to sound different between the two, but they are few in number.


----------



## Greed

roskodan said:


> i was referring to rca and xlr out on the same device, go ask the manufacturers


 
  





 A blanket statement like that is absolutely ridiculous. A native balanced source doesn't always sound analytic. The sound is completely dependent on the individual component. I've had plenty of amps and dacs that sound equally good no matter whether it is RCA (SE) or XLR (balanced). I've also had amps/dacs that have had better sounding RCA outs, and some better XLR outs. This should totally depend on the quality of the connectors/innards and the overall design. Not because one is balanced and the other single-ended.


----------



## roskodan

ofc (not O.F.C) almost always electronically balanced xlr are double the output V, dBu of the rca on the same device
  
 therefor as most amps do have in my experience a softer sound with a lower signal at the input, and i listened to quite a few setups, i feel that way
  
 not to talk about thd noise and distortion, we go all night about that
  
 back on topic, hd800 are really analytical themselves or not, how do you feel about them compared to other cans


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Wa2!!!


----------



## skeptic

palmfish said:


> Im anxious to hear what you think. When I compared the Mainline and Crack (w/Speedball) side by side, I preferred the Crack. It was just a little warmer and more musical sounding to my ears.


 
  
 Thanks for the reply palmfish!  Yeah - given Purrin's postings and graphs (mainly elsewhere) regarding how the hd800's can arguably benefit from higher output impedance amps (including vintage receivers) due to the 100hz spike in their impedance curve, it should make for some very interesting comparative listening once I finish off the mainline.  Add in some of Tyll's commentary on room response and bass perception (see, e.g. http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/i-love-these-headphonesthe-nad-viso-hp50 ), and interesting questions emerge regarding what headphone bass should sound like if we're trying to emulate live acoustic music.
  
 I expect to love the mainline with my hd800's (as well as with the AD's I just ordered) and look forward to reporting back on the pairing.  Relative to the crack, other builders have posted high praise for its effortless transients and tight, impactful bass.  Can't wait to hear it for myself.


----------



## esn89

dubstep girl said:


> Wa2!!!


 
 wat.  that's a water machine at my work, i tried plugging it in and it broke.


----------



## magiccabbage

arcamera said:


> I think she meant: go with the WA2! (I'm sure happy with it right now).


 
 I have one myself - love the thing


----------



## palmfish

skeptic said:


> Thanks for the reply palmfish!  Yeah - given Purrin's postings and graphs (mainly elsewhere) regarding how the hd800's can arguably benefit from higher output impedance amps (including vintage receivers) due to the 100hz spike in their impedance curve, it should make for some very interesting comparative listening once I finish off the mainline.  Add in some of Tyll's commentary on room response and bass perception (see, e.g. http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/i-love-these-headphonesthe-nad-viso-hp50 ), and interesting questions emerge regarding what headphone bass should sound like if we're trying to emulate live acoustic music.
> 
> I expect to love the mainline with my hd800's (as well as with the AD's I just ordered) and look forward to reporting back on the pairing.  Relative to the crack, other builders have posted high praise for its effortless transients and tight, impactful bass.  Can't wait to hear it for myself.




Thanks for the link, I really appreciate it! I didnt know Sean Olive was doing headphone research, but Im sure that whatever the results of his research should/will become the new standard for headphone design. I have Floyd Tooles book and have read it and referenced it many times over the years - the future of headphones is in good hands! Bass is definitely a big part of it, but I dont think headphones will ever be able to recreate the sound of speakers (or a live performance) simply because of the lack of delays, reflections, dopplar effect, etc. but i am sure that any headphone that is designed using Mr. Olives findings will be something very special indeed.


----------



## skeptic

palmfish said:


> Thanks for the link, I really appreciate it!....


 
  
 My pleasure!  I wasn't familiar with the authorities Tyll referenced, but conceptually, the discussion struck me as being right on.  Is this the book by Toole that you were referencing?  http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reproduction-Acoustics-Psychoacoustics-Loudspeakers/dp/0240520092
  


roskodan said:


> no i'm not, this is a fact


 
  
 Please cite some concrete sources if you aren't intentionally trolling at this point.  You suggested that we "go ask the manufacturers," so I will refer you to the explanation by PJ at Bottlehead in post 9 of this thread: http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=2362.0  You might also google and read the wiki articles on balanced lines, balanced audio and push pull amplifiers.


----------



## Wil

dubstep girl said:


> Wa2!!!


 
  
 omigosh.
  
 I was thinking of getting the Yulong but am afraid i might lust after the WA2 once i've gotten it. problem is the WA2 is slightly overpriced where i live. But if it can stop me from constant upgrading that could be a plus!


----------



## brunk

wil said:


> omigosh.
> 
> I was thinking of getting the Yulong but am afraid i might lust after the WA2 once i've gotten it. problem is the WA2 is slightly overpriced where i live. *But if it can stop me from constant upgrading that could be a plus!*


 
 Better add tube rolling costs into it then


----------



## Wil

brunk said:


> Better add tube rolling costs into it then


 
  
 Having owned numerous tube amps, i know


----------



## roskodan

magiccabbage said:


> my hd800s are taking ages to get to me. Delivery delays!>..............


 

 i see it won't be hard for you to kill some time... wa2 t1 hd650... and soon hd800... you can't go wrong with that one


----------



## magiccabbage

wil said:


> Having owned numerous tube amps, i know


 
 Getting a custom OTL built soon for HD800. Well its not exactly proper custom because its based on someone else's custom OTL but yea...... cannot wait till next January.


----------



## longbowbbs

bearfnf said:


> I love my HD800...just sayin'...


 
 I love mine even more now that it is 6 degrees and snowing!


----------



## Wil

magiccabbage said:


> Getting a custom OTL built soon for HD800. Well its not exactly proper custom because its based on someone else's custom OTL but yea...... cannot wait till next January.


 
  
 Nice. Hope it gets to you soon. I know how these waits are...(excruciating!)


----------



## Currawong

Guys, I've deleted three or so pages of posts from this thread. 
  
 Please remember that: 

Posts not on topic are a waste of peoples' time. Replying to off-topic posts are even worse.
Posts with just question marks, smileys and meaningless nonsense are a waste of a post. People come here to read about the topic, not read pages and pages of rubbish.
Moderators that don't feel so generous in giving their (free and unpaid) time to clean up after people who don't follow the Posting Guidelines often just lock threads without warning. Consider this before making a post of the type I just mentioned above.
Replying to public moderator warnings about the rules (such as this one) with further discussion of them or making further off-topic posts is a good way to get locked out of a thread.


----------



## Rasmus

*Problem - Pulling out the calbe*
  
 Hello, i have a small problem with my HD 800's. I have heard that the cables should come really easy out just by pulling the metal thing straight out of the headphones. But it doesn't seem to come no matter what??? I have tried to pull a little hard (to the point i don't want actually, because of i'm scared of damaging the headphones) but it won't come out? 
 Is there a special technique were you have to twist it or anything?? I really don't want to use much force, as don't wish to damage them in any way.
 So is it normal that it is difficult to unplug the cables, or is there something wrong


----------



## bearFNF

Mine came out kinda hard the first time.  They were really in there.  After the first few time it loosened up a bit.
 Was a little nerve racking.  Just make sure you are pulling on the connector straight.  I also find that if you giggle/twist it axially while pulling (like rolling it between you fingers), it helps to get it out.


----------



## Rasmus

bearfnf said:


> Mine came out kinda hard the first time.  They were really in there.  After the first few time it loosened up a bit.
> Was a little nerve racking.  Just make sure you are pulling on the connector straight.  I also find that if you giggle/twist it axially while pulling (like rolling it between you fingers), it helps to get it out.


 
 Damn man.. It just won't happen. I guess i will have to wait to a hi-fi meet or something were i can get some assistance.


----------



## bearFNF

Can you move them at all?
 twisting? or push pulling?


----------



## Rasmus

Alright i got one out now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i just pulled extra hard (out of comfort zone). But it worked! thanks alot *bearFNF!!!*


----------



## bearFNF

NP, You are welcome. but yeah, the pucker factor goes up when pulling that hard on your really expensive gear...


----------



## dleblanc343

rasmus said:


> Alright i got one out now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I once knicked an HD800 pulling out the connector, try to rest the side of your index on the squarish block the connector is plugged into against the black rim of the grill, and use it as support and pull.
  
 Once you've taken it off once, it's much easier after that.


----------



## negura

Ok. After much sweating, I did work out a safe way to unplug them when new or whenever: It's best before unplugging the connectors to actually use a layer of protection between the connector and the silver foil thing and on top of the scratch-prone plastic. Like some thick carton or plastic. That way you will avoid hitting the "dents magnet" that foil is or scratch the paint.
  
 P.S.: I still really really dislike the connectors system on the HD800s. It's one of the worst.


----------



## NightFlight

pleasantsounds said:


> In a concert the environment is determined, starting with microphones, going through cables, mixers, effects, amps, speakers, and ending with the acoustic properties of the venue. What you get is a finished product, hopefully at it's best.
> In studio work most of these factors are unknown, and the only reasonable choice is a compromise - the output must sound good through $2 IEMs on an mp3 player, in an elevator, a car player and on a high end audiophile system. On top of that there are individual preferences regarding volume level, tonal balance etc. Each of these environments and components colors the sound in it's own way. To have the best possible control over the final output, engineers tend to use components with possibly flat characteristics - that way you can have reasonably complex sound path without needing to worry about particular frequency suddenly booming or something like that.
> Many audiophiles have pretty complex setups as well and then the choice of flat response curve is also very desirable - not because it is enjoyable to everyone out of the bat, but because it's easier to control it and tune it to their individual tastes and preferences.
> HD800 fits this purpose quite well, but no one says it's the only option. If your needs are different you have choices - there are Grados, Audezes and others that have different characteristics.




I have to chime in here with my two cents. I think that a transducer is best when it responds flat. It has the option to be brought "to life" with components up the chain. It should remain as true as possible in order to preserve the context of the chain... since its on the end of said chain. A warm transducer may fit in some situations, but now its colored the source, in a permanent way. No matter how you adjust for it you are compounding through compensation. This is not the case with "flat" transducers. I say "flat" because truly flat is no fun at all.


----------



## negura

Which transducer sounds completely flat?
  
 HD800s:
 http://en.goldenears.net/en/files/attach/images/254/602/022/4902ea3559a6f773247659462155541d.png
  
 Tee-hee.


----------



## brunk

negura said:


> Which transducer sounds completely flat?
> 
> HD800s:
> http://en.goldenears.net/en/files/attach/images/254/602/022/4902ea3559a6f773247659462155541d.png
> ...


 
 I have to respectfully disagree in favor of the HE-6. Here's an easy test. Download this album in FLAC and listen to the 1st track titled "Greenery"
http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/bloop-entheomorphic
  
 Now in JRiver or some other program, open up your analyzer

  
 That 60hz bump is like the 3rd second of the track, but there are several throughout the entire song that goes deeper.
 Look at the analyzer in that region as you are listening and tell me what you (don't) hear. I own both HD-800 and HE-6 and this is why i disagree because i hear every little creak and thump down there on HE-6, but not HD-800.
  
 If there's any doubt, check out track #4 "Disappearing Spaces", it goes just as deep, but with much higher peaks.
  
 The HE-6 is "bright"?...._riiiight_


----------



## Maxvla

I hear the full extension. Not sure what you are arguing. The HD800 extends naturally deeper than any other headphone I've ever listened to. It has cavernous bass that seems to come from everywhere and nowhere at the same time. It just doesn't throw it in your face like most of the planar magnetics. I've owned the HE-6 and really couldn't stand them. I've owned the LCD-2 and thought they were alright, but overrated. I've heard LCD-3 many times and thought them a slightly improved LCD-2. All 3 are overly bassy.


----------



## DSlayerZX

rasmus said:


> *Problem - Pulling out the calbe*
> 
> Hello, i have a small problem with my HD 800's. I have heard that the cables should come really easy out just by pulling the metal thing straight out of the headphones. But it doesn't seem to come no matter what??? I have tried to pull a little hard (to the point i don't want actually, because of i'm scared of damaging the headphones) but it won't come out?
> Is there a special technique were you have to twist it or anything?? I really don't want to use much force, as don't wish to damage them in any way.
> So is it normal that it is difficult to unplug the cables, or is there something wrong


 

 it is very very difficult to remove the cable the first time.
 I used a microfiber cloth to cover it to prevent damage, and had to pull on it really, really hard (at least... hard for such a small component) to get it out.
  
 but anyway.... gotta as the question after it got derailed.
 Has anyone tried to drive the HD800 balanced straight out of the buffalo II/III dace with IVY III stage?
 If yes, has anyone compared vs with a dedicated balanced amp?
 The balanced output of IVYIII should be much more than enough to power it... but just want to reasure anyone has first hand experience in it.
 (or if anyone has a balanced amp willing to let me borrow them )


----------



## DutchGFX

I know I shouldnt post here, but I am anyways lol. If anyone is looking to sell their HD800, PM me 
  
 Side note, heard these again at the NYC Meet, damn, they are good. Much better than I remembered from april.


----------



## BournePerfect

maxvla said:


> I hear the full extension. Not sure what you are arguing. The HD800 extends naturally deeper than any other headphone I've ever listened to. It has cavernous bass that seems to come from everywhere and nowhere at the same time. It just doesn't throw it in your face like most of the planar magnetics. I've owned the HE-6 and really couldn't stand them. I've owned the LCD-2 and thought they were alright, but overrated. I've heard LCD-3 many times and thought them a slightly improved LCD-2. All 3 are overly bassy.


 
 +1 on all counts-though I haven't heard an LCD3-I have zero desire to after owning a 2.2 for a while. HD800's are just unparalleled once you surround them with a great rig. That being said-I'd like to hear the HE6 again on an uber amp just because.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## brunk

bourneperfect said:


> +1 on all counts-though I haven't heard an LCD3-I have zero desire to after owning a 2.2 for a while. HD800's are just unparalleled once you surround them with a great rig. That being said-I'd like to hear the HE6 again on an uber amp just because.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 Did you listen to that track I mentioned earlier? There are fundamentals down to 30hz. Can the HD-800 play this tone? Yes. Can the HD-800 do it with actual full-range music? No, it's simply rolling off the low end on tracks like this. And yes, that stuff should be "in your face" because it's 10x higher than anything else on the analyzer.
  
 Don't get me wrong, the HD-800 is very flat, but when you play music, it simply doesn't have the flat-out wide extension the HE-6 has. Do compare the two cans if you can


----------



## dukeskd

brunk said:


> Did you listen to that track I mentioned earlier? There are fundamentals down to 30hz. Can the HD-800 play this tone? Yes. Can the HD-800 do it with actual full-range music? No, it's simply rolling off the low end on tracks like this. And yes, that stuff should be "in your face" because it's 10x higher than anything else on the analyzer.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the HD-800 is very flat, but when you play music, it simply doesn't have the flat-out wide extension the HE-6 has. Do compare the two cans if you can


 
  
  
 +1. No amp or dac is going to fix this fault. And as I have mentioned a few pages back, SR009 has this problem too. Great observations brunk.


----------



## brunk

dukeskd said:


> +1. No amp or dac is going to fix this fault. And as I have mentioned a few pages back, SR009 has this problem too. Great observations brunk.


 
 Thanks!


----------



## DarKen23

brunk said:


> bourneperfect said:
> 
> 
> > +1 on all counts-though I haven't heard an LCD3-I have zero desire to after owning a 2.2 for a while. HD800's are just unparalleled once you surround them with a great rig. That being said-I'd like to hear the HE6 again on an uber amp just because.
> ...


 
 Interesting, I dont know if Im missing out on anything with the tracks youve linked with my HD800, I wish I had the HE-6 with a proper amp to actually do a direct comparison. 
  
 To be honest, the reason Im reluctant on getting an ortho is due to the weight and discomfort Ive experienced. The HD800 was the perfect remedy. As for sound, I still love and appreciate the HD800's signature and capabilities. While Im sure there are better phones--I simply do not want to believe that theres anything better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## brunk

@DarKen23 Yeah I hear ya man on the 'new cans' thing, lol. The best way to tell if you're missing anything is looking at an analyzer while listening, it doesn't lie to you. However, your mind can misinterpret the analyzer if not read properly and lie for you!


----------



## negura

dukeskd said:


> +1. No amp or dac is going to fix this fault. And as I have mentioned a few pages back, SR009 has this problem too. Great observations brunk.


 
  
 I just played the track mentioned on the previous page with my 009s. I have no doubts this is NOT the case with these headphones.  I do not say this lightly: The bass response is incredible and amazing. It sounds in relation to how it looks on the graph, bottomless bass that rumbles insanely low & the bass is not affected when the spectrum becomes busy. One of my personal lessons learnt on this forum is regarding the SR-009 bass. There is absolutely nothing missing - VERY strong response, and the quality is top. It's also very neatly integrated in the spectrum. I was both very surprised when I heard them and that was only confirmed when owning them. I do no have an explanation for the ocassional noise on this subject, but from my point of view it is not at all what I am hearing.
  
 I no longer have the HD800s, but I admit I had some concerns in this respect with them at the time. The quality of the bass was very good though.


----------



## DarKen23

dslayerzx said:


> rasmus said:
> 
> 
> > *Problem - Pulling out the calbe*
> ...


 
 Sure, as long as you are willing to make a deposit for me to hold


----------



## Fearless1

To you guys/girls who own both the HE-6 and the HD800, what is the differences in the two and which do you give the most head-time to?
  
 I just recently sold off a couple of audio related things(made my wife happy), and have the budget for an HE-6. I just recently picked up the HD800 and honestly, could not be happier. I never thought I would like an analytical head phone(big 650 HE-500 fan). I guess I just never experienced them long term, and honestly it is hard to go back to the HE-500/650 etc.. Would the HE-6 be complimentary to the HD800 or should I just be happy? I am very content with my source/amp so no need to go bigger there.
  
 Thanks for any input.


----------



## brunk

fearless1 said:


> To you guys/girls who own both the HE-6 and the HD800, what is the differences in the two and which do you give the most head-time to?
> 
> I just recently sold off a couple of audio related things(made my wife happy), and have the budget for an HE-6. I just recently picked up the HD800 and honestly, could not be happier. I never thought I would like an analytical head phone(big 650 HE-500 fan). I guess I just never experienced them long term, and honestly it is hard to go back to the HE-500/650 etc.. Would the HE-6 be complimentary to the HD800 or should I just be happy? I am very content with my source/amp so no need to go bigger there.
> 
> Thanks for any input.


 
 HE-6 really isn't complementary to HD-800, they overlap in many ways. Something like a TH-900 for example would suit each other well, but it depends on your musical tastes. If you're curious about the HE-6, find a dealer with a no-hassle return policy and check 'em out 
  
 I personally give more head time to the HE-6 over HD-800. Unless I want to dig really deep into the music, like some classical, I'll put on the HD-800. I consider it more of a tool now personally. Main differences are soundstage, comfort, overall extension, and amp requirements.


----------



## MattTCG

fearless1 said:


> To you guys/girls who own both the HE-6 and the HD800, what is the differences in the two and which do you give the most head-time to?
> 
> I just recently sold off a couple of audio related things(made my wife happy), and have the budget for an HE-6. I just recently picked up the HD800 and honestly, could not be happier. I never thought I would like an analytical head phone(big 650 HE-500 fan). I guess I just never experienced them long term, and honestly it is hard to go back to the HE-500/650 etc.. Would the HE-6 be complimentary to the HD800 or should I just be happy? I am very content with my source/amp so no need to go bigger there.
> 
> Thanks for any input.


 
  
 The Alpha Dog seems like a good fit to go with your hd800. Closed ortho to go with the very open dynamic. Or if you want to go full tilt what about an lcd-xc? If you have no need for a closed hp, the lcd2/3 would complement well.


----------



## Fearless1

brunk said:


> HE-6 really isn't complementary to HD-800, they overlap in many ways. Something like a TH-900 for example would suit each other well, but it depends on your musical tastes. If you're curious about the HE-6, find a dealer with a no-hassle return policy and check 'em out
> 
> I personally give more head time to the HE-6 over HD-800. Unless I want to dig really deep into the music, like some classical, I'll put on the HD-800. I consider it more of a tool now personally. Main differences are soundstage, comfort, overall extension, and amp requirements.


 
 Yeah, I was considering the TH-900, but I do have a Lawton modded D7k, that really does not get much head-time, "tastes have changed" I guess you could say, is it that much different/better?
  


matttcg said:


> The Alpha Dog seems like a good fit to go with your hd800. Closed ortho to go with the very open dynamic. Or if you want to go full tilt what about an lcd-xc? If you have no need for a closed hp, the lcd2/3 would complement well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I own an LCD-2 and love them (minus the comfort), but I may consider the Alpha-Dog. You really have not said much about them, do you still love them?
  
  
 Thanks for the responses!


----------



## BournePerfect

fearless1 said:


> To you guys/girls who own both the HE-6 and the HD800, what is the differences in the two and which do you give the most head-time to?
> 
> I just recently sold off a couple of audio related things(made my wife happy), and have the budget for an HE-6. I just recently picked up the HD800 and honestly, could not be happier. I never thought I would like an analytical head phone(big 650 HE-500 fan). I guess I just never experienced them long term, and honestly it is hard to go back to the HE-500/650 etc.. Would the HE-6 be complimentary to the HD800 or should I just be happy? I am very content with my source/amp so no need to go bigger there.
> 
> Thanks for any input.


 
  
 Well I sold the HE6 (and every other can) and kept the HD800-so what's that tell you? Then again-I've heard the HD800 on a ton of systems, and know first hand that they scale incredibly well, and any change to a rig can easily be heard. Just swapping out various dacs in a similar price range  can change someone's impressions of what these can and cannot do. Trust me-I've spent plenty of time, $$, and tons of A/Bing various dacs and amps to know that the HD800 is a sonic chameleon-and that spouting something as gospel (good for classical only, weak bass etc etc etc etc etc...) only shows the limitations of said spouter's ability/willingness to upgrade/synergize his system.
  
 In a nutshell-a Phonitor or Crack are hardly reaching for the HD800's ceiling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 -Daniel


----------



## longbowbbs

Good to Hear Daniel...(Literally!) I sure love mine!


----------



## rawrster

I had both at one point and ended up selling the HE6. I got tired of trying to amp the HE6 to it's potential and I didn't want to spend more on a speaker amp that was going to be used for 1 headphone. Even with the cheap speaker amp I had the HE6 sounded extremely good. The HD800 sounds better from less but still has a high ceiling. I've toned it down and just have my Anedio D1 as I've moved to Stax but the HD800 isn't going anywhere. I think one day (I keep saying that but who knows when I'll get it done) I'll get mine painted and then probably buy a cable from Headphone Lounge for a cable with a 1/4" plug as I had my stock plug terminated into a 4 pin XLR and also have a Toxic cable with a 4 pin XLR so it is a bit annoying to need an adapter every time.


----------



## DarKen23

matttcg said:


> fearless1 said:
> 
> 
> > To you guys/girls who own both the HE-6 and the HD800, what is the differences in the two and which do you give the most head-time to?
> ...


Ive only had the pleasure of listening to the HE-6 one time for about 30-40mins, it was recently at that. And as a previous LCD owner, I felt that the HE-6 was heaps ahead in the sound department.


----------



## Fearless1

bourneperfect said:


> Well I sold the HE6 (and every other can) and kept the HD800-so what's that tell you? Then again-I've heard the HD800 on a ton of systems, and know first hand that they scale incredibly well, and any change to a rig can easily be heard. Just swapping out various dacs in a similar price range  can change someone's impressions of what these can and cannot do. Trust me-I've spent plenty of time, $$, and tons of A/Bing various dacs and amps to know that the HD800 is a sonic chameleon-and that spouting something as gospel (good for classical only, weak bass etc etc etc etc etc...) only shows the limitations of said spouter's ability/willingness to upgrade/synergize his system.
> 
> In a nutshell-a Phonitor or Crack are hardly reaching for the HD800's ceiling.
> 
> ...


 
 I am very content with the synergy I found with them and the Fosgate Signature amp( fed by Benchmark DAC2). I am sure there is much better out there, but that combo is perfect to my ears.
  
 I, like you, am in the process of "thinning out the heard" after finding this combo. Going back to other cans that were my old favorites, I find they lack in this or that.  I cant agree enough with you saying they are a "sonic chameleon" (well said
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). the first time I heard them I borrowed them from a friend, tried them on everything I owned at the time, and was underwhelmed thinking to myself, what is all of the fuss about?  I am glad that I heard his rig, it was like my eyes were opened.


----------



## DarKen23

rawrster said:


> I had both at one point and ended up selling the HE6. I got tired of trying to amp the HE6 to it's potential and I didn't want to spend more on a speaker amp that was going to be used for 1 headphone. Even with the cheap speaker amp I had the HE6 sounded extremely good. The HD800 sounds better from less but still has a high ceiling. I've toned it down and just have my Anedio D1 as I've moved to Stax but the HD800 isn't going anywhere. I think one day (I keep saying that but who knows when I'll get it done) I'll get mine painted and then probably buy a cable from Headphone Lounge for a cable with a 1/4" plug as I had my stock plug terminated into a 4 pin XLR and also have a Toxic cable with a 4 pin XLR so it is a bit annoying to need an adapter every time.


+1 I've never had a problem selling off a headphone after a period of time but thinking about selling my HD800 is scary.. I'll usually sell a hp to have a better one or a different flavor. I don't think I could ever sell the HD800 and If I do get another hp, it'll be an additional hp, not a trade-off.


----------



## NightFlight

Hey MickeyVee... 

I recently jumped off the Schiit Train and joined the church of Bottlehead. I just gotta say, the Crack does wonders for the HD800s and it's not just me. You can't beat the price either. Watch the RMAF 2011 video here: http://youtu.be/iRyUOpFt1jI Watch the guys light up when the crack/HD800 combo are mentioned. It was brand new back then too, still priced at $219. Even now at $279 it's still a steal. You can go balanced with the Bottlehead Mainline at $1200, but there's not enough feedback on the amp yet as it's still on the first production run. Exciting times at BH. I'm so pumped about this pairing, I'm willing to build the crack for non-techs who want to try it out (+labour) To boot, I haven't even stuffed in the speedball.


----------



## P+D-MI

bourneperfect said:


> Well I sold the HE6 (and every other can) and kept the HD800-so what's that tell you? Then again-I've heard the HD800 on a ton of systems, and know first hand that they scale incredibly well, and any change to a rig can easily be heard. Just swapping out various dacs in a similar price range  can change someone's impressions of what these can and cannot do. Trust me-I've spent plenty of time, $$, and tons of A/Bing various dacs and amps to know that the HD800 is a sonic chameleon-and that spouting something as gospel (good for classical only, weak bass etc etc etc etc etc...) only shows the limitations of said spouter's ability/willingness to upgrade/synergize his system.
> 
> In a nutshell-a Phonitor or Crack are hardly reaching for the HD800's ceiling.
> 
> ...


 
 I totally agree. You really haven't heard what the hd800 can do 'til you've heard them synergize with the right amp and source.


----------



## MickeyVee

I'm not too sure what's happening with my HD800/WA7 combo at the moment but I seem to really be enjoying it more and more.  Not sure if it's break in (equipment or me just getting used to it) but at this point I really don't feel anything lacking.  I've been hankering to get either the the LCD 2.2 or TH600 but at this point, I'm holding off.  When I want something more coloured/fun I just move over to the Momentum/iDevice (iPod U2 4G/iPhone5/iPad Mini Retina all with EQ set to treble boot) and I get my fix.
 I've been a big fan of the HD800 since I first heard them at a meet and on my system at that time.  Enough to sell my HD700/HE500 and move to the HD800.  It just seems to be getting better and better and gelling together quite nicely.. HD800/ ADL or Q cable/WA7 with stock Sovtek tubes (not a fan of the EH Gold Pins but I'm keeping them as backups).
 Anyway, really a Happy Camper for now!


----------



## magiccabbage

mickeyvee said:


> I'm not too sure what's happening with my HD800/WA7 combo at the moment but I seem to really be enjoying it more and more.  Not sure if it's break in (equipment or me just getting used to it) but at this point I really don't feel anything lacking.  I've been hankering to get either the the LCD 2.2 or TH600 but at this point, I'm holding off.  When I want something more coloured/fun I just move over to the Momentum/iDevice (iPod U2 4G/iPhone5/iPad Mini Retina all with EQ set to treble boot) and I get my fix.
> I've been a big fan of the HD800 since I first heard them at a meet and on my system at that time.  Enough to sell my HD700/HE500 and move to the HD800.  It just seems to be getting better and better and gelling together quite nicely.. HD800/ ADL or Q cable/WA7 with stock Sovtek tubes (not a fan of the EH Gold Pins but I'm keeping them as backups).
> Anyway, really a Happy Camper for now!


 
 nice one - my hd800 are being delayed hopefully i will have them in 2 weeks.


----------



## preproman

darken23 said:


> Ive only had the pleasure of listening to the HE-6 one time for about 30-40mins, it was recently at that. And as a previous LCD owner,* I felt that the HE-6 was heaps ahead in the sound department.*


 
  
 That would be correct IMO.  I've heard the HD800 and the HE-6 on "tons" of rigs lol..  Yup the HD800s got sold.  They just don't have the weight to the music the planars have.  At times and with some music the HD800s can sound "thin" compared to some planars.  
  
 I'll get a TOTL tube amp and another pair of HD800s to see if I can pull it's weight up - I got a order in for the EC 445, lets see if that will do the trick.  Using the HE-6 on headphone amps is just a wastes of time IMO.  The HD800 is tricky and will need the right amp / dac combo.  But get this.  There's lots of good combo's out there for the HD800s.  
  
 rawrster said "The HD800 sounds better from less" I think he hit the nail on the head.  You have to be willing to put in more work to get the HE-6 right compared to getting the HD800s right.  The HD800s scales pretty damn good.  However, the HE-6 scales higher.


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> That would be correct IMO.  I've heard the HD800 and the HE-6 on "tons" of rigs lol..  Yup the HD800s got sold.  They just don't have the weight to the music the planars have.  At times and with some music the HD800s can sound "thin" compared to some planars.
> 
> I'll get a TOTL tube amp and another pair of HD800s to see if I can pull it's weight up.  Using the HE-6 on headphone amps is just a wastes of time IMO.  Where the HD800 is tricky and will need the right amp / dac combo.  But get this.  There's lots of good combo's out there for the HD800s.
> 
> rawrster said "The HD800 sounds better from less" I think he hit the nail on the head.  You have to be willing to put in more work to get the HE-6 right compared to getting the HD800s right.  The HD800s scales pretty damn good.  However, the HE-6 scales higher.


 
 I completely disagree here Darryl...sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. But the HD800's do scale higher. From a $600 MAD EAR+HD to a $1000 WA2 to a $2200 WA22 to a $2800 GS-X MK2, the HD800s just kept getting better (just like my DAC upgrades). The HE-6's hit their limit with a good $500 Class A speaker amp (like a good old Pioneer SX)...and no to very minimal improvements with uber-high end speaker amps. Unlike you, I sold my HE-6s and can't ever bare selling my HD-800s. 
  
 They couldn't give me the quickness and transparency of the HD800s and were too thin sounding orthos compared to my LCD-3s. Just my 2 cents....


----------



## preproman

macedonianhero said:


> I completely disagree here Darryl...sorry
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 They may have hit their limit to your ears.  Not so with my ears and a few other head fi'ers thats been on the very long journey of trying speaker amps of all sorts in many different audio shops.  The HE-6 hit their limit on a good $500 speaker amp?  Peter that's the best joke I've heard all day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The HE-6 will eat those amps you mentioned for breakfast and still want more.  If the 8K Simaudio MOON 600i is not scaling - I don't know what is.  You have to hear for your self.
  
 At times I like the LCD-3 better than the HD800 and at time I like the HD800 better than the LCD-3 - But I like the HE-6 all the time over both.  That's why both got sold.  Hope the EC445 will help the HD800s out and I hope the LCD-X is an improvement over the LCD-3 in certain areas.


----------



## MickeyVee

Yeah.. I keep eyeing the Crack w/Speedball.  I almost bought one that was on CAM but it was too close after my WA7 purchase.  Would really like to hear the combo as it 's in my snack bracket.. translate budget. Really enjoying my current setup for now.
  
 Quote:


nightflight said:


> Hey MickeyVee...
> 
> I recently jumped off the Schiit Train and joined the church of Bottlehead. I just gotta say, the Crack does wonders for the HD800s and it's not just me. You can't beat the price either. Watch the RMAF 2011 video here: http://youtu.be/iRyUOpFt1jI Watch the guys light up when the crack/HD800 combo are mentioned. It was brand new back then too, still priced at $219. Even now at $279 it's still a steal. You can go balanced with the Bottlehead Mainline at $1200, but there's not enough feedback on the amp yet as it's still on the first production run. Exciting times at BH. I'm so pumped about this pairing, I'm willing to build the crack for non-techs who want to try it out (+labour) To boot, I haven't even stuffed in the speedball.


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> They may have hit their limit to your ears.  Not so with my ears and a few other head fi'ers thats been on the very long journey of trying speaker amps of all sorts in many different audio shops.  The HE-6 hit their limit on a good $500 speaker amp?  Peter that's the best joke I've heard all day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry, I've heard it for myself (and on a 200W top of the line McIntosh amp) and all this MOAR power thing for the HE-6s is really one of the most overblown urban myths around Head-Fi. BTW, some Pioneer SX amps can output more than enough power to blow the drivers and never leave Class A.
  
 I agree with your HD800 and LCD-3 comments, I go back and forth depending on what music/mood I'm in. But, I think you'd like the LCD-X as they seem more up your alley.


----------



## magiccabbage

the ec445 is a new Eddie current amp?


----------



## MickeyVee

+1.  It seems that HP's done last longer than 6-8 months for me.  Definitely keeping the HD800 (as well as my Momentum) and if I do get something else, it will be complimentary.. LCD something or TH600/900.
 Quote:


darken23 said:


> +1 I've never had a problem selling off a headphone after a period of time but thinking about selling my HD800 is scary.. I'll usually sell a hp to have a better one or a different flavor. I don't think I could ever sell the HD800 and If I do get another hp, it'll be an additional hp, not a trade-off.


----------



## preproman

macedonianhero said:


> Sorry, I've heard it for myself (and on a 200W top of the line McIntosh amp) and all this MOAR power thing for the HE-6s is really one of the most overblown urban myths around Head-Fi. BTW, some Pioneer SX amps can output more than enough power to blow the drivers and never leave Class A.
> 
> I agree with your HD800 and LCD-3 comments, I go back and forth depending on what music/mood I'm in. But, I think you'd like the LCD-X as they seem more up your alley.


 
  
 It's not about the power baby.  I wish that myth would go by by.  Power is needed - but is has to be "good" power.


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> It's not about the power baby.  I wish that myth would go by by.  Power is needed - but is has to be "good" power.


 
 Trust me the Pioneer SX950 is fantastic power as is my bro's McIntosh amp (that's fantastic...not good). Speaking of which, please define good power? If the amp can deliver current and voltage and stay in Class A that = good power....just physics (Power = V * I).


----------



## preproman

Well to be frank most speaker amps with the HE-6 will stay in class A.  The HE-6 is not enough to bring most speaker amps out of class A - That's not an issue at all.  
  
 I evaluate speaker amps the same way I do with headphone amps.  No different, some are better than others.  Just like headphone amps.  That Pioneer or McIntosh must not have jived.  I don't know.  Sorry you had such a bad time with them, just goes to show you.  The HE-6 takes some time and effort to get right.


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> Well to be frank any speaker amp with the HE-6 will stay in class A.  The HE-6 is not enough to bring a speaker amp out of class A - That's not an issue at all.
> 
> I evaluate speaker amps the same way I do with headphone amps.  No different, some are better than others.  Just like headphone amps.  That Pioneer or McIntosh must not have jived.  I don't know.  Sorry you had such a bad time with them, just goes to show you.  The HE-6 takes some time and effort to get right.


 
 I still don't understand...sorry. Power = voltage x current and if an amp can easily supply them, then the "good power" argument is confusing? If you're talking synergy, then that's something all together different. The McIntosh is a fantastic amp that can easily drive full sized Maggies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and very well reviewed and respected...the HE-6s are certainly no problem.


----------



## preproman

macedonianhero said:


> I still don't understand...sorry. Power = voltage x current and if an amp can easily supply them, then the "good power" argument is confusing? If you're talking synergy, then that's something all together different. The McIntosh is a fantastic amp that can easily drive full sized Maggies
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If synergy is what you want to call it then synergy it is.  I'm sorry but all amp don't use the same power supply nor the same transformers.  That's two ways "your" power augment can be settled.


----------



## froger

Sonic aside, one reason why I chose HD800 over HE-6 is that HE-6 always reminds me that I am on headphones listening to music due to its weight/design pressing on my head. On the other hand, HD800 is more capable of "disappearing", making it easier/more believable to transport me to the live performance.


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> If synergy is what you want to call it then synergy it is.  I'm sorry but all amp don't use the same power supply nor the same transformers.  That's two ways "your" power augment can be settled.


 
 I'd take the power transformer in a high end McIntosh any day of the week. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've heard that amp drive Maggies, Wilsons and high end Focals all with glorious results.


----------



## magiccabbage

Who cares about HE6?? maybe people on the HE6 thread? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry i could not resist. Maybe you guys should try it the old fashioned way


----------



## Greed

McIntosh is overrated and over priced IMO!


----------



## MacedonianHero

greed said:


> McIntosh is overrated and over priced IMO!


 
 With poor to average speakers...yes, way overkill. But give them some really good speakers and wowza!


----------



## preproman

macedonianhero said:


> *I'd take the power transformer in a high end McIntosh* any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I would to.  However, it's been a few Head Fier's that took First Watt amps over a few McIntosh amps.  Just saying..


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> I would to.  However, it's been a few Head Fier's that took a First Watt amp over a few McIntosh.  Just saying..


 
 I just won't buy that sorry. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No way, no how, no time.


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> I would to.  However, it's been a few Head Fier's that took First Watt amps over a few McIntosh amps.  Just saying..


 
 I would love to hear a First Watt amp, its still on my list. When i go solid state it will have to be a special one.


----------



## preproman

macedonianhero said:


> I just won't buy that sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It has been written.  So sorry about your Mcint&%^&  But it lost to a few First Watt amps - with the HE-6 mind you.


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> It has been written.  So sorry about your Mcint&%^&  But it lost to a few First Watt amps - with the HE-6 mind you.




That's ridiculous, no A B has been done and you haven't asked what model I used.


----------



## DarKen23

froger said:


> Sonic aside, one reason why I chose HD800 over HE-6 is that HE-6 always reminds me that I am on headphones listening to music due to its weight/design pressing on my head. On the other hand, HD800 is more capable of "disappearing", making it easier/more believable to transport me to the live performance.


 
 +1, my point entirely


----------



## Greed

macedonianhero said:


> With poor to average speakers...yes, way overkill. But give them some really good speakers and wowza!




I have no doubt that their amps sound good (they better for what they cost), but there is a reason why they aren't widely reviewed or loved by users. There is simply better speaker amps for the money, IMO of course. Also, when is the last time you have seen a Mc on the class a list on Stereophile...


----------



## DarKen23

macedonianhero said:


> preproman said:
> 
> 
> > I would to.  However, it's been a few Head Fier's that took a First Watt amp over a few McIntosh.  Just saying..
> ...


 
 Im sure your opinions would be different if you actually heard a First Watt amp.


----------



## MacedonianHero

darken23 said:


> Im sure your opinions would be different if you actually heard a First Watt amp.


 
 I'd love to, but this "magical" synergy with the HE-6s seems way over blown. Is the WA2/T1 synergy great, yes...does it transform them into other headphones...definitely not. And the serious issues I had with the HE-6s would not be "fixed" with an uber synergistic amp methinks. It would have to really be too coloured for that (turned up bass and tuned down treble among other things). I think I've dispelled (at least to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) the lots and lots of power myth, so not sure what else is left?
  
 As well, the HE-6s do not scale high because they are so revealing, that's the HD800's problem...the HE-6s are just really too inefficient to be driven by run of the mill stuff. Again, this is from an owner who still holds them in very high regard and had them for over a year.


----------



## MacedonianHero

greed said:


> I have no doubt that their amps sound good (they better for what they cost), but there is a reason why they aren't widely reviewed or loved by users. There is simply better speaker amps for the money, IMO of course. Also, when is the last time you have seen a Mc on the class a list on Stereophile...


 
 You really give any credence to Stereophile reviews? Trust me, there's politics there too. Go into some uber high end audio stores and see what they use and have for demoing.


----------



## MickeyVee

Yeah, maybe.  OT but Stereophile can't cover everything.  Have you heard Mc stuff with Martin Logan speakers?  Absolutely sublime.  There is no way any HP system can even come close. I'm probably a speaker guy at heart.  Back on topic.. There's not too much in the HP world that can beat a good HD800 system 
  
 Quote:


greed said:


> I have no doubt that their amps sound good (they better for what they cost), but there is a reason why they aren't widely reviewed or loved by users. There is simply better speaker amps for the money, IMO of course. Also, when is the last time you have seen a Mc on the class a list on Stereophile...


----------



## Greed

macedonianhero said:


> You really give any credence to Stereophile reviews? Trust me, there's politics there too. Go into some uber high end audio stores and see what they use and have for demoing.




Sure, you can't take it as gospel, but after tons of research on forums, Mc is not recommended very often in any price range. I've been making the rounds to my local Hi-Fi dealers, and while they do deal with Mc, none of the setups I heard had any Mc gear. They are long past their prime, IMO.


----------



## DarKen23

mickeyvee said:


> Yeah, maybe.  OT but Stereophile can't cover everything.  Have you heard Mc stuff with Martin Logan speakers?  Absolutely sublime.  There is no way any HP system can even come close. I'm probably a speaker guy at heart.  Back on topic.. *There's not too much in the HP world that can beat a good HD800 system *
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
 +1!


----------



## MacedonianHero

greed said:


> Sure, you can't take it as gospel, but after tons of research on forums, Mc is not recommended very often in any price range. I've been making the rounds to my local Hi-Fi dealers, and while they do deal with Mc, none of the setups I heard had any Mc gear. They are long past their prime, IMO.


 
 Listen to their new gear...spectacular. When my kids get older and I can go back to speakers, McIntosh is definitely on my radar.


----------



## Greed

macedonianhero said:


> Listen to their new gear...spectacular. When my kids get older and I can go back to speakers, McIntosh is definitely on my radar.




For you, I might just take another look.


----------



## MickeyVee

Again OT, but if money wasn't an object, my choices would be Burmester, SimAudio Moon or McIntosh.  Just coming off the Toronto Audio Video Show, these were the absolute best setups I've heard. Let your ears decide.  OTOH I heard a $250K Mc system that was not too impressive.. they were using McIntosh speakers.
 Quote:


greed said:


> Sure, you can't take it as gospel, but after tons of research on forums, Mc is not recommended very often in any price range. I've been making the rounds to my local Hi-Fi dealers, and while they do deal with Mc, none of the setups I heard had any Mc gear. They are long past their prime, IMO.


----------



## MacedonianHero

greed said:


> For you, I might just take another look.


 
  
That's just it with McIntosh, for the most part, they are wasted on most speakers.


----------



## Greed

darTZeel, Mark Levi, and Rogue for me. Speakers of course... Wilsons. 

(Sorry for the OT)


----------



## MickeyVee

Maybe, but not wasted on Martin Logan's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Back OT.. the HD800 are the closest HP's that I found that match the speed, air and accuracy of ML speakers. Maybe that's why I like them so much. Stax are out of my snack bracket so they're not in the running for me.
 Quote:


macedonianhero said:


>


----------



## MacedonianHero

greed said:


> darTZeel, Mark Levi, and Rogue for me. Speakers of course... Wilsons.
> 
> (Sorry for the OT)


 
 Sorry...again for being OT, but the best Wilson setup I've ever heard were driven by a McIntosh MC452.


----------



## longbowbbs

I spent some time this week with the Vandersteen Model 7's and all Audio Research gear. Best I have ever heard. The source was an SME model 20 TT with the Lyra Atlas cartridge.
  

  

  
 Oh yeah, I got to hang with Richard Vandersteen too....


----------



## wink

So, which one is Richard?


----------



## Frank I

on the left


----------



## longbowbbs

frank i said:


> on the left


 
 Yes sir....Very interesting man. It was quite a privilege to spend time with him.


----------



## brunk

preproman said:


> I would to.  However, it's been a few Head Fier's that took First Watt amps over a few McIntosh amps.  Just saying..


 
 Yep
  


macedonianhero said:


> I just won't buy that sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 ...it's me, and I'm not alone. 
  
 I'm not going to say McIntosh as a whole over First Watt, but the MC302 was thoroughly spanked by the F5.


----------



## Frank I

I think that Pass amps especially against the Mcintosh solid state amps goes hands down to Pass. Macintosh makes better tube amps  than they do with their solid state amps. I heard many Mac's solid states and  the Pass amps are in another league., Nelson Pass is one of the very best designers making solid state amps and on the same level as Spectral which are the very best solid state amps I have heard.   Mac strength has always been tube amplifiers.  The older Pass Adcom designs also were excellent namely  the 5500 and the 5800 amps Nelson designed for Adcom. They're were outstanding amps as well for a very reasonable price. i owned the Adcom 5800 and demoed the Macintosh 250 watt amp side buy side and preferred the Adcom in the early 90/'s and bought the Adcom for the PSB Stratus Golds.


----------



## brunk

^ Words of time, dedication, and experience right there. That surely counts for something.


----------



## MacedonianHero

brunk said:


> Yep
> 
> ...it's me, and I'm not alone.
> 
> I'm not going to say McIntosh as a whole over First Watt, but the MC302 was thoroughly spanked by the F5.




That 's not the amp FWIW I was referring to.  oh and this isn 't the early "90s . A lot has changed in 20 years.

And I 'm a big fan of Pass too . Again my statements stand with the myth around the insane power requirements of said headphones. Frank's WA 5 does a fantastic job and doesn't need to put in. 30 W into 50 ohms. 

Maybe this discussion is better suited on the, oh I don 't know? HE-6 thread?


----------



## brunk

macedonianhero said:


> That 's not the amp FWIW I was referring to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 F5 is 25 watts @ 8ohms, while the MC302 is 300w @8ohms. Myth debunked. 
  
 What model are you referring to by the way?
  
 EDIT: This is going to sound cliché, but it's all about the first watt and the current, in regards to HE-6. So long as the rest of the system is matched. Pure honey!


----------



## BournePerfect

Lol at you HE6 guys.Go team!! It's the same 3-4 spamming the same stuff in every thread around here-regardless if it's on topic or not. Funniest part is-looking at your rigs-none of you have come close to reaching the HD800s ceiling, yet you claim the HE6 scales higher by virtue of...uh...there's more TOTL speaker amps than TOTL HD800-friendly amps?? You guys crack me up. At least listen to the choir of experienced HD800 users and have an ounce of restraint  before making everything seem so cut and dry when it comes to amping either of these flagships. I mean you guys are the ones who have hundreds of pages of HE6 nonsense regarding 300W monoblocks-or-bust posts until reality finally settled in.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Get a clue-*it's* *all subjective anyway*.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Frank I

Daniel at the NY meet one of the headfi members put a balanced HD800 into the WA5 XLR jack and man was I surprised . The HD800 jumped up another notch. I was afraid to try it with mine but after listening I will use the balance doable and even Jack Wu was surprised how good it sounded.  The HD800 scale higher.  LOL


----------



## Happy Camper

macedonianhero said:


> Sorry...again for being OT, but the best Wilson setup I've ever heard were driven by a McIntosh MC452.


I just was listening to the 452 today with the big Maggies. I also listened to it with the HE-6 and didn't feel it gave as good a depth to the soundstage. It sure is a stud of an amp but don't feel the soundstage is as broad and defined as the big Sim. But I've been told the new Ayre gear is something to listen to on the ML, Maggies and Wilsons. It's impressed Mark enough that they've dropped Sim for the Ayre line. If you're interested Darryl, the new stuff should be in by end of the month for audition.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

I run my HE-6 with a 100wpc solid state amp & the HD800s with the Apex Pinnacle. Same source; Esoteric K01. 
 IMO the HD800s are far better.
 'nuf said


----------



## Maxvla

HE-6 = uncomfortable, bassy, poor soundstage, non-intuitive amping. I sold mine pretty fast after getting in the first run when they released at $1000. Now they are much more expensive and nothing's changed.


----------



## nigeljames

maxvla said:


> HE-6 =* uncomfortable, bassy, poor soundstage, non-intuitive amping*. I sold mine pretty fast after getting in the first run when they released at $1000. Now they are much more expensive and nothing's changed.


 
  
 uncomfortable = No - but granted not as comfortable as the HD800.
 Bassy = No - My HE6's have superb bass IMO the best overall bass of all my phones
 poor soundstage = No - Not as wide as the HD800's but which is correct and which is artificial I don't know or care.
 non-intuitive amping = hell yes - but many would consider the HD800's a bugger to amp properly as well, especially those who feel you have to use tubes
  
 I love both the HE6's and HD800's but at this moment feel a slight preference for the HE6's but both are great phones.


----------



## preproman

The mega watt myth has been debunked a long time ago - get over it.  My amp is only 10W into 8 - so there you go.  Myth gone.  It's funny how people claim that others have not heard a TOTL HD800 rig lol.. The majority of users of HD800s are not using them on TOTL rigs anyway and claiming they are at their best.  My question is - *What exactly is a TOTL HD800 rig?* (name of amps please) Please don't say the GS-X mk2.  If so, been there done that.  The F1J / HE-6 wipes the floor with it.
  
 It's also funny how some people first tried the HE-6* a long time ago on a low level headphone amps like "Little Dots" *and dismissed it.  Things have changed, more research has been done.  Those little a$% transformers in headphone amps does the HE-6 no good, they can not tame the highs and control the bass like the ones in speaker amps when it comes to complicated passages, they can't sustain high current peaks.


----------



## philo50

nigeljames said:


> uncomfortable = No - but granted not as comfortable as the HD800.
> Bassy = No - My HE6's have superb bass IMO the best overall bass of all my phones
> poor soundstage = No - Not as wide as the HD800's but which is correct and which is artificial I don't know or care.
> non-intuitive amping = hell yes - but many would consider the HD800's a bugger to amp properly as well, especially those who feel you have to use tubes
> ...


 
 ^+1


----------



## LugBug1

Just curious, when you guys speak of speaker amps with the HE6's.. are you using the speaker terminals or the headphone outs? I'm assuming its the terminals or all that power would be wasted. 
  
 I do know the well respected Skylab uses an SX1980 with the HE6's and is a favorite with him. But I'm sure he only uses the headphone out.... (apologies if I'm wrong)
  
 But, hes also not a big hd800 fan. And there's nothing wrong with that. 
  
 It's a great heavyweight battle this. But as always, its only a matter of taste. 
  
 HD800 = Vintage Chardonnay   HE6 = Vintage Bordeaux 
  
(and the award for worst metaphor goes to me!


----------



## Frank I

Guys I am using the WA5 which jus 8-10 watts into 8 ohms and the HE6 sounds fantastic. I rarely have to listen above the 9 mark on the dial and that is even loud. The WA5 drives the HE6 effortlessly with exceptional tone and musicality.  I find the WA5 to be one of the very best amps that I have heard them with. I use my reference recording label Copland which is a torture CD for most amplifiers to drive because of the expanded dynamic range and the WA5 passes the test. It does not clip and has the right headroom to drive the amplifier. The GSX MK11 I have on the house does  drives them, but does not drive them near  as well as the  WA5. The GSX does drive them but tit is not as open as the WA5. The WA5 has more depth and air and a wider and deeper soundstage.   It also a fantastic amplifier for the HD800.  
  
 The HD800 has more inner detail and a wider and deeper sound stage with excellent transparency. Plain and simple for me I would not be without either headphone. I love that the HD800 is light and comfortable and is an exceptional listen. I am not sure one is better than the other . Just  different presentations. The HD800 will let you know exactly what is on the recording both good and bad. The HD800 has exceptional midrange and  IMO terrific bass because of the texture of the  presentation.   The GSX MK 11 is also an excellent amplifier for use with the HD800 in the balanced configuration. I really like the musicality that the GSX and the WA5 bring to the the hd800.  I prefer the Wa5 while listening with the hE6.  I stated this when I purchased the WA5 that it would be an endgame amplifier for me personally and nothing has changed since the day it arrived. The HD800 and HE6 are two of my very favorite headphones along with the TH900 and T1. I can't see why this is still a debate over the hE6 and the hD800. Both are outstanding headphones and two that I would not be without. The HD800 and HE6 are both amazing for how well they will scale up with higher end gear. Two exceptional headphones to be proud of.
  
 That being said I also liked the hE6 on the SX980 speaker taps when that receiver was here. It had extended range and it was exceptional and did work on the headphone input easily. Rob getting more power with the restored SX 1980 and maybe one day i will get to hear it but its nice to know what there are other solutions to drive them as well and also nice to know that you can use them with amplifier of more power and they will sound fantastic as well.  But in the end there is no better, only different with these two headphones. Both deliver the goods and both are reference quality headphones.  I think this has been debated  for the last few years and it  always end up to which headphone you prefer on any given day. I love them both.  I can also wear the hD800 for more hours and more comfortably.


----------



## MacedonianHero

maxvla said:


> HE-6 = uncomfortable, bassy, poor soundstage, non-intuitive amping. I sold mine pretty fast after getting in the first run when they released at $1000. Now they are much more expensive and nothing's changed.


 
 +1
  


bourneperfect said:


> Lol at you HE6 guys.Go team!! It's the same 3-4 spamming the same stuff in every thread around here-regardless if it's on topic or not. Funniest part is-looking at your rigs-none of you have come close to reaching the HD800s ceiling, yet you claim the HE6 scales higher by virtue of...uh...there's more TOTL speaker amps than TOTL HD800-friendly amps?? You guys crack me up. At least listen to the choir of experienced HD800 users and have an ounce of restraint  before making everything seem so cut and dry when it comes to amping either of these flagship*s. I mean you guys are the ones who have hundreds of pages of HE6 nonsense regarding 300W monoblocks-or-bust posts until reality finally settled in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well stated Daniel. That was the very myth I was referring to. Glad to see that this is no longer the case with many anymore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


frank i said:


> Daniel at the NY meet one of the headfi members put a balanced HD800 into the WA5 XLR jack and man was I surprised . The HD800 jumped up another notch. I was afraid to try it with mine but after listening I will use the balance doable and even Jack Wu was surprised how good it sounded.  *The HD800 scale higher.  LOL*


 
  
 Agreed!
  


brunk said:


> ^ Words of time, dedication, and experience right there. That surely counts for something.


 
 I would say that your previous quote is also appropriate for Frank's second quote here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


shahzada123 said:


> I run my HE-6 with a 100wpc solid state amp & the HD800s with the Apex Pinnacle. Same source; Esoteric K01.
> IMO the HD800s are far better.
> 'nuf said


 
 Bingo!
  


preproman said:


> The mega watt myth has been debunked a long time ago - get over it.  My amp is only 10W into 8 - so there you go.  Myth gone.  It's funny how people claim that others have not heard a TOTL HD800 rig lol.. The majority of users of HD800s are not using them on TOTL rigs anyway and claiming they are at their best.  My question is - *What exactly is a TOTL HD800 rig?* (name of amps please) Please don't say the GS-X mk2.  If so, been there done that.  The F1J / HE-6 wipes the floor with it.
> 
> It's also funny how some people first tried the HE-6* a long time ago on a low level headphone amps like "Little Dots" *and dismissed it.  Things have changed, more research has been done.  Those little a$% transformers in headphone amps does the HE-6 no good, they can not tame the highs and control the bass like the ones in speaker amps when it comes to complicated passages, they can't sustain high current peaks.


 
  
 Get over it? It's not my myth. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I think we've embarked down the path of another myth. The magical unicorn amp/synergy myth (or at the very least: a dramatic exaggeration) where only a very select and rare amp can totally change the character of a headphone to make it sound like a brand new headphone. If there was, then I'd reckon that TOTL amp wasn't truly TOTL as it would have to be so coloured to do this. The HE-6s are purely a resistive load (being orthos) so put enough clean current and supply enough voltage and don't drop out of Class A; that is the definition of " good power" as you previously mentioned. Is there another mystical version of power I don't comprehend? Sorry, but I'm not going down that path. I'm very glad to see that the folks on the HE-6 thread no longer require 300W monoblocks to get that unicorn level of power as Daniel pointed out, but there is another unicorn now being touted and I'm sorry, but I just don't get it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now another point, when I upgraded my DACs over the years, the HD800s were completely open window into each move (and one of the very best at that I might add), the HE-6s certainly were not anywhere as close.
  
 Do the HE-6's image like the HD800s? Nope, Is their bass and defined and textured, nope. Are they as quick and clean, nope. I would even take the HD800s and a WA2 over the HE-6 (on any amp) any day of the week for the reasons I mentioned above. Oh wait....I did.


----------



## magiccabbage

> I would even take the HD800s and a WA2 over the HE-6 (on any amp) any day of the week for the reasons I mentioned above. Oh wait....I did.


 
 I like the sound of that!


----------



## Fearless1

I did not mean to open a can of worms, I just wondered if they would be complimentary or similar.....


----------



## MacedonianHero

fearless1 said:


> I did not mean to open a can of worms, I just wondered if they would be complimentary or similar.....


 
 Too similar....the LCD-3s or LCD-X would be a much more "complimentary" headphone to either the HE-6 or HD800s IMO.


----------



## preproman

macedonianhero said:


> Do the HE-6's image like the HD800s? Nope, Is their bass and defined and textured, nope. Are they as quick and clean, nope. I would even take the HD800s and a WA2 over the HE-6 (on any amp) any day of the week for the reasons I mentioned above. Oh wait....I did.


 
  
 Here again. on the amps you've heard them on maybe not.  However, on the amps I've heard them on many of times side by side and for more than a year together, the one and only thing the HD800 has over the HE-6 is soundstage and TBH the soundstage on the HD800 can sound fake with some music, all music do not require that size of soundstage.  Upper mids, lower mids, mid bass, sub bass all are wins for the HE-6.
  
 Also the HE-6 / First Watt F1J / (Master 7, PWD2) blew away the HD800 / GS-X mk2 / (Master 7, PWD2) combo  Oh yeah - isn't the GS-X mk2 your go to TOTL amp for the HD800s?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    Also I think Soulde sold his HD800 for the LCD-3s because the LCD-3 made his HD800s sound thin..


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> Here again. on the amps you've heard them on maybe not.  However, on the amps I've heard them on many of times side by side and for more than a year together, the one and only thing the HD800 has over the HE-6 is soundstage and TBH the soundstage on the HD800 can sound fake with some music, all music do not require that size of soundstage.  Upper mids, lower mids, mid bass, sub bass all are wins for the HE-6.
> 
> Also the HE-6 / First Watt F1J / (Master 7, PWD2) blew away the HD800 / GS-X mk2 / (Master 7, PWD2) combo  Oh yeah - isn't the GS-X mk2 your go to TOTL amp for the HD800s?
> 
> ...


 
 A few things...first, the HD800s make the HE-6s sound thin and NO amp can fix that. Oh and Solude was never impressed with the First Watt amp he owned either. Please re-read this as it's all I have to really say on the subject you've just mentioned about unicorn amps:
  
*"But I think we've embarked down the path of another myth. The magical unicorn amp/synergy myth (or at the very least: a dramatic exaggeration) where only a very select and rare amp can totally change the character of a headphone to make it sound like a brand new headphone. If there was, then I'd reckon that TOTL amp wasn't truly TOTL as it would have to be so coloured to do this. The HE-6s are purely a resistive load (being orthos) so put enough clean current and supply enough voltage and don't drop out of Class A; that is the definition of " good power" as you previously mentioned. Is there another mystical version of power I don't comprehend? Sorry, but I'm not going down that path. I'm very glad to see that the folks on the HE-6 thread no longer require 300W monoblocks to get that unicorn level of power as Daniel pointed out, but there is another unicorn now being touted and I'm sorry, but I just don't get it. 





"*
  
 You're use of hyperbole isn't helping either as my impressions don't jive with yours (as do objective measurements that don't wanna jive with them either).


----------



## preproman

macedonianhero said:


> A few things...first, the HD800s make the HE-6s sound thin and NO amp can fix that. Oh and Solude was never impressed with the First Watt amp he owned either. Please re-read this as it's all I have to really say on the subject you've just mentioned about unicorn amps:
> 
> *"But I think we've embarked down the path of another myth. The magical unicorn amp/synergy myth (or at the very least: a dramatic exaggeration) where only a very select and rare amp can totally change the character of a headphone to make it sound like a brand new headphone. If there was, then I'd reckon that TOTL amp wasn't truly TOTL as it would have to be so coloured to do this. The HE-6s are purely a resistive load (being orthos) so put enough clean current and supply enough voltage and don't drop out of Class A; that is the definition of " good power" as you previously mentioned. Is there another mystical version of power I don't comprehend? Sorry, but I'm not going down that path. I'm very glad to see that the folks on the HE-6 thread no longer require 300W monoblocks to get that unicorn level of power as Daniel pointed out, but there is another unicorn now being touted and I'm sorry, but I just don't get it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 HE-6 thin - ha ha ha  yeah right.  I think a few of the biggest complaints about the HD800s are the treble, lack of bass (for some), and for me the midrange with female vocals.  Here both the LCD-3 and the HE-6 excels over the HD800 IMO...
  
 Soulde never tried the HE-6 or the HD800s on his First Watt amp either ha ha ha...
  
 Also I think it was you who brought up the synergy thing.  Sorry but those measurements are far from objective.  You have you impressions and I have mine as do others as well.  
  
 The HD800 is a mighty fine dynamic headphone.  I would go out and say IMO it's the best dynamic headphone I've heard thus far.  Other technologies (headphones) however, IMO sound better.


----------



## Dopaminer

ClieOS took some output measurements from the lineout of the iBasso dx50.  They inspired me to see what my HD800s sounded like from this tiny awesome $240 DAP.  
  
 I`m now nearing the end of the FOURTH album ( Pearl Jam`s Ten Redux in 24/96; Me`shell Ndegocello`s Plantation Lullabies in 16/44; Massive Attack`s Mezzanine and Heliogoland in 16/44) and I simply can`t believe how powerful, engaging and musical this sounds, from this player the size of a pack of smokes.   
  
 300w monoblocks?  
  
 I may edit the wikipedia page for the term `Diminishing Returns` - upload a picture of the HE-6 on a pair of monoblocks.


----------



## Audio Jester

For those that have felt that the GS-X Mk2 is not top tier for the HD800's, what amps are in your opinion?


----------



## magiccabbage

audio jester said:


> For those that have felt that the GS-X Mk2 is not top tier for the HD800's, what amps are in your opinion?


 
 +1 Anyone heard the DNA and GSXMK2 together?


----------



## magiccabbage

I think someone on here had GSX and sold it in favor of the Luxman p1u for hd800


----------



## third_eye

magiccabbage said:


> +1 Anyone heard the DNA and GSXMK2 together?


 
  
 I have. I own the the DNA and have heard the GSXMK2. Short answer, they're both top tier with HD800.......it's going to come down to personal preference. We should get more direct info on this when the next batch of Stratus amps are delivered.


----------



## magiccabbage

third_eye said:


> I have. I own the the DNA and have heard the GSXMK2. Short answer, they're both top tier with HD800.......it's going to come down to personal preference. We should get more direct info on this when the next batch of Stratus amps are delivered.


 
 I wish there was somewhere i could listen to DNA. There wasn't even one at the London meet.


----------



## kazsud

frank i said:


> Daniel at the NY meet one of the headfi members put a balanced HD800 into the WA5 XLR jack and man was I surprised . The HD800 jumped up another notch. I was afraid to try it with mine but after listening I will use the balance doable and even Jack Wu was surprised how good it sounded.  The HD800 scale higher.  LOL



 


I should of done that w/ mine it has a balanced cable :/


----------



## snapple10

busy night. good read too
  
 How does HDVD 800 compare to say GSXMK2 with HD800? Not sure if this has been covered before 
  
  
 ​


----------



## nigeljames

macedonianhero said:


> A few things...first, the* HD800s make the HE-6s sound thin and NO amp can fix that*. Oh and Solude was never impressed with the First Watt amp he owned either. Please re-read this as it's all I have to really say on the subject you've just mentioned about unicorn amps:


 
 The HE6's sound thin?
  
 Seriously mine sound almost as full bodied as the LCD2.2's. The HD800's, while not thin sounding either, are clearly 'thinner' sounding than the HE6's in my system.
  
 I think you definitely had an issue with amp synergy if you found the HE6's thin and especially if you found them 'thinner' than the HD800's.


----------



## Maxvla

nigeljames said:


> uncomfortable = No - but granted not as comfortable as the HD800.
> Bassy = No - My HE6's have superb bass IMO the best overall bass of all my phones
> poor soundstage = No - Not as wide as the HD800's but which is correct and which is artificial I don't know or care.
> non-intuitive amping = hell yes - but many would consider the HD800's a bugger to amp properly as well, especially those who feel you have to use tubes
> ...



I got a headache just from wearing them, and the soundstage actually sounded BETTER by wearing them backwards...


----------



## magiccabbage

snapple10 said:


> busy night. good read too
> 
> How does HDVD 800 compare to say GSXMK2 with HD800? Not sure if this has been covered before
> 
> ...


 
 I dont think HDVD800 would be anywhere near the GSX. I much preferred the WA2. I know its 2 different sound setups but i have a feeling the GSX is in another league.


----------



## Greed

third_eye said:


> I have. I own the the DNA and have heard the GSXMK2. Short answer, they're both top tier with HD800.......it's going to come down to personal preference. We should get more direct info on this when the next batch of Stratus amps are delivered.


 
  
 I hope that delivery comes soon! Dying to hear the Stratus again.


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> HE-6 thin - ha ha ha  yeah right.  I think a few of the biggest complaints about the HD800s are the treble, lack of bass (for some), and for me the midrange with female vocals.  Here both the LCD-3 and the HE-6 excels over the HD800 IMO...
> 
> Soulde never tried the HE-6 or the HD800s on his First Watt amp either ha ha ha...
> 
> ...




Well, I would say the HD800s are among the top 2 dynamic headphones ever. The HE-6s are in the top 7. And I'm done talking about unicorns. 

And measurements ARE certainly more odjective than myths.


----------



## Frank I

kazsud said:


> frank i said:
> 
> 
> > Daniel at the NY meet one of the headfi members put a balanced HD800 into the WA5 XLR jack and man was I surprised . The HD800 jumped up another notch. I was afraid to try it with mine but after listening I will use the balance doable and even Jack Wu was surprised how good it sounded.  The HD800 scale higher.  LOL
> ...


 
 I never had tried it until  the NY meet but it suorised me and Jack Wu as well . It really sounded excellent.. I am waiting for a nee moon balanced cable to play with it. i do have a Norse cable that I will use this weekend balanced.


----------



## MacedonianHero

nigeljames said:


> The HE6's sound thin?
> 
> Seriously mine sound almost as full bodied as the LCD2.2's. The HD800's, while not thin sounding either, are clearly 'thinner' sounding than the HE6's in my system.
> 
> I think you definitely had an issue with amp synergy if you found the HE6's thin and especially if you found them 'thinner' than the HD800's.




Yes, thin. And definitely thin next to any Audeze headphone. Too much treble up top (though not peaky, just too much of it), throw in only moderate detail retrieval, and moderate imaging; I sold them. 

As I mentioned, no mythical speaker amp could fix all that without being extremely coloured (and magical).


----------



## nigeljames

maxvla said:


> I got a headache just from wearing them, and the *soundstage actually sounded BETTER by wearing them backwards..*.


----------



## preproman

macedonianhero said:


> Well, I would say the HD800s are among the top 2 dynamic headphones ever. The HE-6s are in the top 7. And I'm done talking about unicorns.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 In this case I refer the HD800 as a dynamic and the HE-6 as a planarmagnictic ie.. other technologies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   It's funny how you keep saying no amp can fix this and fix that, but yet you say you need a special amp for the HD800s, the HD800s are so amp picky and so on
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Really?  This sounds like a contradiction...  So why can't the HE-6 be amp picky as well?


----------



## nigeljames

macedonianhero said:


> Yes, thin. And definitely thin next to any Audeze headphone. Too much treble up top (though not peaky, just too much of it), throw in only moderate detail retrieval, and moderate imaging; I sold them.
> 
> As I mentioned, no mythical speaker amp could fix all that without being extremely coloured (and magical).


 
  
 To be fair I don't have ANY of the issues you had and I don't use a speaker amp and my amp is very neutral.
  
 Also my cabling, interconnection's and phone cables, are pure silver or silver/gold. They don't even have too much treble, again the HD800's are brighter (but not too bright), even with the silver cables.


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> In this case I refer the HD800 as a dynamic and the HE-6 as a planarmagnictic ie.. other technologies :blink:    It's funny how you keep saying no amp can fix this and fix that, but yet you say you need a special amp for the HD800s, the HD800s are so amp picky and so on:blink:   Really?  This sounds like a contradiction...  So why can't the HE-6 be amp picky as well?




Because I love the hd800s out of a Schiit Valhalla and the GS-X MK2 is the best I've heard them. But they always sounded very much like hd800.  The he-6s have had issues with all of the amps I've tried them with. No amp I've ever heard could change headphone A into an entirely different product.


----------



## MacedonianHero

nigeljames said:


> To be fair I don't have ANY of the issues you had and I don't use a speaker amp and my amp is very neutral.
> 
> Also my cabling, interconnection's and phone cables, are pure silver or silver/gold. They don't even have too much treble, again the HD800's are brighter (but not too bright), even with the silver cables.




Cables are yet another myth and any effects are dramatically over stated IME.


----------



## Sorrodje

Macedonian Hero = Unicorns hunter


----------



## MacedonianHero

sorrodje said:


> Macedonian Hero = Unicorns hunter




There are plenty of them with these headphones.


----------



## Sorrodje

Plenty of Unicorn hunters with HD800 ?


----------



## LugBug1

macedonianhero said:


> Cables are yet another myth and any effects are dramatically over stated IME.


 
 Thats something that I've realised over the years as well. Agreed. No cable is going to alter a headphones sound sig. 
  
 This has been great reading guys, but its friday... Maybe in a few drinks time it may all get out of hand. And the HE6's are a lot heavier than the HD800's.... Wouldn't want anyone to get hurt. Especially if bloody mono blocks start getting thrown around as well hahah 
  
 Both great headphones. But the HD800's are the greatest headphone in the world at the mo. I proved this not long ago buy giving them the award. It's documented on this thread. So its true. 
  
 Group hug?


----------



## Sorrodje

LugBug1: +1  ...


----------



## preproman

macedonianhero said:


> Because I love the hd800s out of a Schiit Valhalla and the GS-X MK2 is the best I've heard them. But they always sounded very much like hd800.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 As far as I can tell it's only been "you" talking about changing a headphone into an entirely different product.  I haven't seen that said by no one else but "you"  Ha ha ha   I see how myths and rumors get started.
  
 The truth is - and the same holds true for both the HD800 and the HE-6.  Different amps have different effects on the headphones.  Some amps can tame the treble better than others, some amps can control the bass better than others.  From my experience that's just a fact not a myth or a rumor..
  
 By the way.  saying you loved the HD800 on the Valhalla and you also love them on the GS-X mk2 does not jive to well with scaling.  Just saying


----------



## nigeljames

macedonianhero said:


> Cables are yet another myth and any effects are dramatically over stated IME.


 
  
 Overstated relative to cost I can relate too most of the time, but being a myth I can't.
  
 I have heard clear differences made by better cables. In fact my HE6's were my 3rd best phone, did not have the HD800's at the time else they would of been 4th best, until I tried the Toxic Silver Poison and they them suddenly became my favorite.
  
 I have even been blind tested with the stock cable and another manufacturers cable and have always been able to tell the difference and pick out my preferred cable every time.


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> As far as I can tell it's only been "you" talking about changing a headphone into an entirely different product.  I haven't seen that said by no one else but "you"  Ha ha ha   I see how myths and rumors get started.
> 
> The truth is - and the same holds true for both the HD800 and the HE-6.  Different amps have different effects on the headphones.  Some amps can tame the treble better than others, some amps can control the bass better than others.  From my experience that's just a fact not a myth or a rumor..
> 
> By the way.  saying you loved the HD800 on the Valhalla and you also love them on the GS-X mk2 does not jive to well with scaling.  Just saying


 
 As far as I can tell is this is the HD800 Appreciation thread and it was you who posted this right out of the blue and started all of this. I've been good and bit my tongue when these statements are made as fact on the HE-6 thread, but this is not the place:
  


preproman said:


> That would be correct IMO.  I've heard the HD800 and the HE-6 on "tons" of rigs lol..  Yup the HD800s got sold.  They just don't have the weight to the music the planars have.  At times and with some music the HD800s can sound "thin" compared to some planars.
> 
> I'll get a TOTL tube amp and another pair of HD800s to see if I can pull it's weight up - I got a order in for the EC 445, lets see if that will do the trick.  Using the HE-6 on headphone amps is just a wastes of time IMO.  The HD800 is tricky and will need the right amp / dac combo.  But get this.  There's lots of good combo's out there for the HD800s.
> 
> rawrster said "The HD800 sounds better from less" I think he hit the nail on the head.  You have to be willing to put in more work to get the HE-6 right compared to getting the HD800s right.  The HD800s scales pretty damn good. * However, the HE-6 scales higher.  *


 
 Which is simply not true based on my first hand experiences after owning it for over a year. And yes, the HD800s scale like almost no other, but they never stop being the HD800s. They sound great out of a Valhalla, better out of a WA2/WA22 and even better out of a GS-X. Nice try though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But just as the previous fallacy of 300W monoblocks with the HE-6s, this newer one is still just as untrue IME. The HE-6s are so far behind the HD800s that no amp could bring them up to that level. The HE-6s were certainly not my "go to" headphones for evaluating DACs...that was reserved for my HD800s. That is my point. Just sayin'. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I've said the HE-6s are pretty far behind the HD800s and all I used to get back was "you need a powerful Class A speaker amp"....so I tried and was left unimpressed. Now I get a slightly different version of that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Maybe these discussions of HE-6s and amping requirements are better suited on the fairy tail thread that is for the HE-6s?


----------



## MacedonianHero

nigeljames said:


> Overstated relative to cost I can relate too most of the time, but being a myth I can't.
> 
> I have heard clear differences made by better cables. In fact my HE6's were my 3rd best phone, did not have the HD800's at the time else they would of been 4th best, until I tried the Toxic Silver Poison and they them suddenly became my favorite.
> 
> I have even been blind tested with the stock cable and another manufacturers cable and have always been able to tell the difference and pick out my preferred cable every time.


 
 Overstated that they could very much qualify as myth. The last thing I would recommend anyone spend their $ on. Oh and I speak from first hand experiences. Please feel free to look at my cable inventory.


----------



## negura

macedonianhero said:


> Overstated that they could very much qualify as myth. The last thing I would recommend anyone spend their $ on. Oh and I speak from first hand experiences. Please feel free to look at my cable inventory.


 
  
 What next - tubes are a myth too?


----------



## MacedonianHero

sorrodje said:


> Plenty of Unicorn hunters with HD800 ?


 
 True...but far less than the HE-6s.


----------



## MacedonianHero

negura said:


> What next - tubes are a myth too?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Show me the data about cables. I do hear small changes (maybe...sometimes if I really really push and try really hard).  But I don't want to be drawn into a cable discussion....all I can say is that cable manufacturers have had decades to generate real life measurements...I still don't see them. Oh and I suggest you read my signature...might be on subject here.
  
 FWIW, tubes do change sound as they can affect the actual circuitry. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Here are the blanket statements I've made (also sent to you via PM):
  
 1.) The HE-6s don't need 300W monoblocks to sound their best.
 2.) No magical amp can transform them into bass heavy LCD-2s with imaging like the HD800s and clarity like no other.
 3.) Cables are the last thing I would worry about when investing in a rig and any differences are only very minor.


----------



## preproman

macedonianhero said:


> Which is simply not true based on my first hand experiences after owning it for over a year. And yes, the HD800s scale like almost no other, but they never stop being the HD800s. They sound great out of a Valhalla, better out of a WA2/WA22 and even better out of a GS-X. But just as the previous fallacy of 300W monoblocks with the HE-6s, this newer one is still just as untrue IME. The HE-6s are so far behind the HD800s that no amp could bring them up to that level. The HE-6s were certainly not my "go to" headphones for evaluating DACs...that was reserved for my HD800s. That is my point. Just sayin'.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Your definition of scaling is different than mine "obviously".  So yes, the HE-6 scales way higher than any other headphone I've heard - My along with others "RECENT" experience shows this.
  
 It was not me who quoted you - it was you who quoted me first
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Sorry for the "LACK" of HE-6 experience


----------



## negura

macedonianhero said:


> Show me the data about cables. I do hear small changes (maybe...sometimes if I really really push and try really hard).  But I don't want to be drawn into a cable discussion....all I can say is that cable manufacturers have had decades to generate real life measurements...I still don't see them. Oh and I suggest you read my signature...might be on subject here.
> 
> FWIW, tubes do change sound as they can affect the actual circuitry.


 
  
 I think there is a place for scientific discussion on the forum.
  
 I'd love people to watch the clip and comments from London's April Head-Fi meet, where Sennheiser staff, including their product managers, had their jaws dropped when comparing stock cables with aftermarket ones on nothing else than the HD800s. However, for reasons I do not understand, the organizer decided to remove the clip at some point... The comments are still there on thread however.
  
 An indication from a well respected vendor is actually from Stax and the detail they went to with their selection choice for SR-009, which is a 6N purity SPC cable. 
  
 My personal view:
 - The sound difference is dependant on the actual cables, like with everything. I've heard cheap and expensive cables that sound virtually the same or super close. And I've heard significant differences, within reasonable expectations, between cables (both cheap and expensive).
 - I definitely do NOT agree with the use of the word "myth"
 - The effect cables will have also depend on the level of transparency of the main components on the system. E.g.: In a SR-009/HD800 rig with TOTL DAC/AMP the impact of the same cables will be more audible than in a low level system
 - The cables should be amongst the last things to buy
 - We do not all hear the same
  
 The reason I am posting this is actually because my experience with the HD800s was significantly improved with using a simple mod (Tyll's version of Anax ) and alternative cabling. The stacked effect and combination of both really helped along with some of what was not so nice about the HD800s stock character.


----------



## Frank I

Guys please stay on track they close one of these threads already when the cable nonsense started. I hate to see another rthread shut down but it going to end tup that way if you guys jeep going off the topic. Amos cleaned this one up already and he going to get disgusted if he has to do it again. Thanks Guys appreciate it.


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> Your definition of scaling is different than mine "obviously".  So yes, the HE-6 scales way higher than any other headphone I've heard - My along with others "RECENT" experience shows this.
> 
> It was not me who quoted you - it was you who quoted me first
> 
> ...


 
 Just proved my #1 and #2 points. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And it was you who started going on about the HE-6s on the HD800 Appreciation Thread. While I tolerated it on the HE_6 thread...this wasn't the best place for it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We can agree to disagree, but the HE-6s would have to scale into brand new headphones to reach the HD800s out of a WA2 IMO, but certainly not yours.
  
 Can we please now get back to the HD800s?


----------



## preproman

macedonianhero said:


> *HE-6s would have to scale into brand new headphones to reach the HD800s out of a WA2 IMO*,


 
  











​  Hyperbole at it's best


----------



## brunk

preproman said:


> ​


 
 The funny part is that the BH Crack is similar to WA2, but with better upgrades that far exceed the value of WA2...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 ...and my BH Crack + SB is a far cry from stock.


----------



## third_eye

frank i said:


> Guys please stay on track they close one of these threads already when the cable nonsense started. I hate to see another rthread shut down but it going to end tup that way if you guys jeep going off the topic. Amos cleaned this one up already and he going to get disgusted if he has to do it again. Thanks Guys appreciate it.


 
  
 +1. Guys, please agree to disagree or take it to PM. It would be highly annoying if this thread were shut down again.


----------



## MacedonianHero

brunk said:


> The funny part is that the BH Crack is similar to WA2, but with better upgrades that far exceed the value of WA2...:rolleyes:




Finally something on topic here...amps for the HD800s. 

So it the 7236/5988 are a must for the wa2 to get the juice out. Not sure if those were the tubes you used?


----------



## LugBug1

Question to all.... 
  
 Has anyone ever driven these loud enough that they get distortions? I've kind of got a bit of OCD at the mo and I keep wacking em up haha, but I've never heard anything other than clarity and control, no matter how loud. 
  
 Are these drivers invincible?


----------



## brunk

macedonianhero said:


> Finally something on topic here...amps for the HD800s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I can't recall if I heard 5998s on the WA2, but some Tung-Sol and Bendix 6080s were awesome.


----------



## MacedonianHero

brunk said:


> I can't recall if I heard 5998s on the WA2, but some Tung-Sol and Bendix 6080s were awesome.


 
 I found that he HD800s are too demanding for the WA2 with the 6080s. The TS 5998s or 7236s were really something special with the WA2.


----------



## MacedonianHero

lugbug1 said:


> Question to all....
> 
> Has anyone ever driven these loud enough that they get distortions? I've kind of got a bit of OCD at the mo and I keep wacking em up haha, but I've never heard anything other than clarity and control, no matter how loud.
> 
> Are these drivers invincible?


 
  
 They are not invincible and one danger is that they need to play really loud to distort, so the urge might be there to play them too loud. But unlike say the LCD-3s or LCD-X that are rated for 20W, I don't think the HD800s have such a rating from Sennheiser.


----------



## LugBug1

macedonianhero said:


> They are not invincible and one danger is that they need to play really loud to distort, so the urge might be there to play them too loud. But unlike say the LCD-3s or LCD-X that are rated for 20W, I don't think the HD800s have such a rating from Sennheiser.


 
 Yeah I've never had them louder than my ears can cope with, unlike this guy!


----------



## brunk

macedonianhero said:


> I found that he HD800s are too demanding for the WA2 with the 6080s. The TS 5998s or 7236s were really something special with the WA2.


 
 Nice findings. I have a biased 12BH7 in my Crack, with a Bendix 6080 and its pretty darn good, but the CCCS (speedball) and film caps in the PSU make it ultra silent with gobs of reserves on tap. That's the achilles heel of the WA2 IMO --instantaneous power.


----------



## BournePerfect

I agree with LugBug: the HD800s are the King of Headphones! (haven't heard Stax). Here's a FEW of the headphones (all properly amped btw)-that I kicked to the curb after hearing what the Senns could do (and it was quite a journey, that one!):
  
 HE6
 TH900
 W3000ANV
 T1
 LCD 2.2
 AD2000
  
 Oh, and after reading all the recent defensiveness and insecurity here by the big spenders and the unicorn bearers, I don't know which important lesson from my youth is more apt:
  
 a) *Don't feed the trolls.*
  
                _-or-_
  
 b) *Don't squabble with the freshmen.*
  
 -Daniel


----------



## MacedonianHero

brunk said:


> Nice findings. I have a biased 12BH7 in my Crack, with a Bendix 6080 and its pretty darn good, but the CCCS (speedball) and film caps in the PSU make it ultra silent with gobs of reserves on tap. That's the achilles heel of the WA2 IMO --instantaneous power.


 
 Not if you give them the 5998 or 7236s...plenty of juice. Heck the WA2 could play my HE-6s better than my WA22 could with those tubes.


----------



## preproman

I'm I a troll or a freshmen?  Inquiring minds want to know


----------



## magiccabbage




----------



## palmfish

Welcome to "Summit Fi."

If you spent less than $5000 for your gear, you are a Freshman. If you challenge someone who spent $5000 or more, you are a Troll. 

And yes, it is possible to be a Freshman Troll. :rolleyes:


----------



## BournePerfect

I'll plead the 5th and take my own advice (option b) right now.
  
 So, what's everybody's favorite amp they've heard with the HD800 so far? Mine should come as no surprise:
  
 ZDSE, although the P1u is definitely a close second.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## magiccabbage

WA2 for me with TS5998


----------



## BournePerfect

palmfish said:


> Welcome to "Summit Fi."
> 
> If you spent less than $5000 for your gear, you are a Freshman. If you challenge someone who spent $5000 or more, you are a Troll.
> 
> And yes, it is possible to be a Freshman Troll.


 
 Not sure where the 5k figure came from, but:
 I've spent more than 5K-but not on any single piece of gear (yet). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I haven't derailed this thread with mind-numbing HE6 propaganda either-so no trolling here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Still rocking the Crack for your HD800, Bob?
  
 -Daniel


----------



## LugBug1

preproman said:


> I'm I a troll or a freshmen?  Inquiring minds want to know


 
 A trolling freshman.. Perhaps? I kid I kid  
  
 I think its commendable that you still stand strong with your favorite hp. There are so many peeps chop'n change there minds on this forum. Including myself, I once said I would never sell my beloved LCD2's, as they were perfect for me. But I sold them 6 months after saying that.. I now think the HD800's are perfect for me. It's a very fickle hobby this.


----------



## DutchGFX

I come to school after going to bed last night at around 11, and bam, 96 unread posts... lol
  
 I think I'm going to order a pair from Drew and pay the restocking fee. I have to get my hands on a pair of these to compare to my T1 after the recent NYC Meet. I'm dying to demo a pair!


----------



## BournePerfect

magiccabbage said:


> WA2 for me with TS5998


 
 Always wanted to hear that one-but after being slightly disappointed with my WA5LE/HD800 (no offense Frank!! lol)-I'm not sure if I'll try-although I'm inclined to think theirsonics will be quite a bit different. I did like the Woo/Senn, just not nearly as much as my cheaper alternatives, the Zana and Luxman. Even the BHA-1, in some regards, not others.
  
 My vote for best budget amp with incredible synergy with the HD800 is still the m-Stage, but I'm excited to try the Vali next week with it as well.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## preproman

lugbug1 said:


> A trolling freshman.. Perhaps? I kid I kid


 
 Cool - I'll take that.  A trolling freshman.


----------



## LugBug1

bourneperfect said:


> My vote for best budget amp with incredible synergy with the HD800 is still the m-Stage, but I'm excited to try the Vali next week with it as well.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 Yup I'd go with that as well. And keep us informed how you get on with the Vali, I'm sure to buy one of these as soon as I can. For the price you really can't go wrong!


----------



## magiccabbage

bourneperfect said:


> Always wanted to hear that one-but after being slightly disappointed with my WA5LE/HD800 (no offense Frank!! lol)-I'm not sure if I'll try-although I'm inclined to think theirsonics will be quite a bit different. I did like the Woo/Senn, just not nearly as much as my cheaper alternatives, the Zana and Luxman. Even the BHA-1, in some regards, not others.
> 
> My vote for best budget amp with incredible synergy with the HD800 is still the m-Stage, but I'm excited to try the Vali next week with it as well.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 I remember when you got the WA5-LE and wait till i tell you - I had dreamed of getting the WA5-Le myself until you chimed in with some impressions and put the doubt in my mind. I was gonna go WA22 or 5le but then DG got the Zana and didnt care for it that much (think she said it was a bit SS sounding) So you didn't like the WA5-LE as much as the Zana and she didnt like the Zana or WA22 as much as the WA2. In the end i decided to go somewhere else besides another woo = Glenn OTL. 
  
 I really want to try a DNA Stratus more than anything else especially for HD800!


----------



## palmfish

bourneperfect said:


> Not sure where the 5k figure came from, but:
> I've spent more than 5K-but not on any single piece of gear (yet). :wink_face:
> I haven't derailed this thread with mind-numbing HE6 propaganda either-so no trolling here. :wink_face:
> 
> ...




Not directed at you Sally


----------



## Sorrodje

bourneperfect said:


> I'll plead the 5th and take my own advice (option b) right now.
> 
> So, what's everybody's favorite amp they've heard with the HD800 so far? Mine should come as no surprise:
> 
> ...


 
  
 If it can be useful for somebody. I really found (confirmed by friends) that a Meier Corda Jazz does a very good job. Great budget amp undoubtedly  . But my favourite until now stays my MG Head, an old but good tube amp to drive Sennheisers , even HD800 with appropriates tubes.  A bit Less transparent than Meier Corda Jazz but a bit smoother.  My next puchase will be another jan Meier's product : Corda Concerto.  This one will complement my MG Head not replace it.


----------



## negura

I am surprised it is not mentioned more often, but the Taboo MK3 is an excellent amplifier with the HD800s. It offers strong transparency, minimal colour tint, really great bass, body and dynamics. Being a tube amplifier it doesn't make things worse with the treble like *some* SS do. It is not a treble rolled off/mellow box so don't expect that. Oh and I don't know if there's something about that SET "magic" as some people call it, but it sounds damn satisfying.
  
 In particular with the HD800s the best Taboo MK3 synergy I found with:
 - some nice EL84s output tubes
 - I'd recommend an old school 1950s double D getter RCA 5Y3GT (inexpensive) or if your DAC is a bit bright something like the Brimar 5R4GY 
 - Amperex driver tube
  
 And yes, I ended up using the Taboo for both intended and unintended purpose, but that's another story. Let's just say it has great versatility.


----------



## magiccabbage

What happened? where did everyone go? This thread was getting exciting and all of a sudden everyone vanishes.


----------



## negura

magiccabbage said:


> What happened? where did everyone go? This thread was getting exciting and all of a sudden everyone vanishes.


 
  
 Is Friday not a piss-up day in Ireland?  I am concerned everyone will get back later on with "strong opinions".


----------



## Sorrodje

magiccabbage said:


> What happened? where did everyone go? This thread was getting exciting and all of a sudden everyone vanishes.


 
  
  
 LOL!


----------



## magiccabbage

negura said:


> Is Friday not a piss-up day in Ireland?  I am concerned everyone will get back later on with "strong opinions".


 
 Ha Ha - you are right. Unfortunately i could not convince any of my friends to go to the pub tonight so you people will have to entertain me. Im gonna get to hear this bad boy with HD800 shortly ¬


----------



## BournePerfect

lugbug1 said:


> Yup I'd go with that as well. And keep us informed how you get on with the Vali, I'm sure to buy one of these as soon as I can. For the price you really can't go wrong!


 
 For sure!  I still wish the m-Stage/HD800 would catch on more with the new/budget crowd. Myself, P86, Maxvla as well as others know it well as a nice stop gap while saving for a higher end amp for the Senns. Plus it works with a nice wide range of headphones. I've never heard a V200, but I imagine the m-Stage is somewhat similar to that sonically-warm, excellent transients, etc. I'm hoping the Vali knocks it out of the park (for it's price) with the HD800. Marv's comments on it having a somewhat EC house sound have peaked my interest. Like you said-for $120, not much to lose!
  


magiccabbage said:


> I remember when you got the WA5-LE and wait till i tell you - I had dreamed of getting the WA5-Le myself until you chimed in with some impressions and put the doubt in my mind. I was gonna go WA22 or 5le but then DG got the Zana and didnt care for it that much (think she said it was a bit SS sounding) So you didn't like the WA5-LE as much as the Zana and she didnt like the Zana or WA22 as much as the WA2. In the end i decided to go somewhere else besides another woo = Glenn OTL.
> 
> I really want to try a DNA Stratus more than anything else especially for HD800!


 
  
 Well-it still pays to listen for yourself-but of course that is much easier said than done in this hobby. Hopefully that Glenn amp will cater to your ears just nicely!
  


palmfish said:


> Not directed at you Sally


 
  
 Not sure that's my name-but hey I'm glad I got your's right.


sorrodje said:


> If it can be useful for somebody. I really found (confirmed by friends) that a Meier Corda Jazz does a very good job. Great budget amp undoubtedly  . But my favourite until now stays my MG Head, an old but good tube amp to drive Sennheisers , even HD800 with appropriates tubes.  A bit Less transparent than Meier Corda Jazz but a bit smoother.  My next puchase will be another jan Meier's product : Corda Concerto.  This one will complement my MG Head not replace it.


 
  
 I actually used the Meir Rock for a bit with the HD800-kinda reminded me of the m-Stage pairing, but with even more rounded bass. A decent pairing in a pinch, but didn't have the usual Meier house sound (neutral, transparent) of his other amps. I've read great things about the Jazz for both the T1s and HD800s too. Are you picking up the 'old' Concerto, or the updated Classic?
  


magiccabbage said:


> What happened? where did everyone go? This thread was getting exciting and all of a sudden everyone vanishes.


 
  
 I can't speak for everyone, but one has resorted to personal attacks via PM lol. I had to remind him to throw his come in the wastebasket before coming in for a lesson. 
  
 When is your Glenn amp arriving?
  
 -Daniel


----------



## DarKen23

I'm surprised people think that the HE-6 are overly bass. At the time of my listen, I thought the HE-6 had the best bass over every hp I've heard. The texture, decay, and quality imo is unmatched.


----------



## Sorrodje

bourneperfect said:


> I actually used the Meir Rock for a bit with the HD800-kinda reminded me of the m-Stage pairing, but with even more rounded bass. A decent pairing in a pinch, but didn't have the usual Meier house sound (neutral, transparent) of his other amps. I've read great things about the Jazz for both the T1s and HD800s too. Are you picking up the 'old' Concerto, or the updated Classic?


 
  
  
 Old Concerto  . besides my Utbe amp I really want to keep a neutral, transparent SS amp with crossfeed feature. I initially wanted to pruchase a brand new Daccord+Classic combo but i haven't enough money. So I opted to a used HEGEL HD10 and a used Concerto  . Jazz is astonishingly good for the price but it's defintively not warm. Jazz offers Meier typical house sound . Jan says precisely that the Rock is more forgiving and warmer  but Jazz is more detailed/transparent. The Classic is a slight upgrade over Jazz with a bit more body and roundness.  From my experience , the Hd800 is so sensitive to upstream gear that I'm convinced that upgrade from Jazz to concerto worthes the price. 
  
 With MG Head + Hegel HD10 + Meier Concerto,  I think any substantial improvement would cost me very big bucks.


----------



## magiccabbage

> When is your Glenn amp arriving?


 
 It wont be till early next year. He starts the build in Jan. Here is a picture of the one i will get  - has a volt switch and bigger transformer. 
 Picture ¬


----------



## dan.gheorghe

magiccabbage said:


> What happened? where did everyone go? This thread was getting exciting and all of a sudden everyone vanishes.


 
) +1 . I went for a drink a few hours back and when I come home, I see "72 unread messages" . In my head "gooodies!" )) 
  
 I have the Burson Conductor paired with HD800 and I think it is doing a decent job. With the MSB Analog Dac, the *HD800 *scaled so much, it almost scared me and this with Burson Conductor as amp, so I think it is a decent amp. However, can't wait to try the Taboo MkIII with it.
  
 Soon...


----------



## Frank I

bourneperfect said:


> Always wanted to hear that one-but after being slightly disappointed with my WA5LE/HD800 (no offense Frank!! lol)-I'm not sure if I'll try-although I'm inclined to think theirsonics will be quite a bit different. I did like the Woo/Senn, just not nearly as much as my cheaper alternatives, the Zana and Luxman. Even the BHA-1, in some regards, not others.
> 
> My vote for best budget amp with incredible synergy with the HD800 is still the m-Stage, but I'm excited to try the Vali next week with it as well.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 No offense taken. I still wish you would heard them with a different tube setup. I had lots of people hear this setup over the last two meets and many were  floored with the presentation. But hey,everyone prefers different amp and tubes a well.  I just love them with this tube setup and they were underwhelming with other tubes  I have tried using with them.  I went through a few combinations and found the right drivers for them,. The 596 rectifiers also made a big difference.


----------



## skeptic

brunk said:


> Nice findings. I have a biased 12BH7 in my Crack, with a Bendix 6080 and its pretty darn good, but the CCCS (speedball) and film caps in the PSU make it ultra silent with gobs of reserves on tap. That's the achilles heel of the WA2 IMO --instantaneous power.




Very well said Brunk (as usual). CCS puts the crack in a higher league than the WA3 and its higher power higher resolution sibling, the WA2. Frankly, even minus the speedball, crack easily surpasses the woo otl's in detail and dynamics, to my ears.

The woos have a rich, warm, full sound, with a nice soundstage, but they sound a bit slow and perhaps the slightest bit blurry in comparison to more agile tube amps. If you want a stark contrast, listen to the same track back to back on a WA2, followed by a ZD


----------



## nigeljames

macedonianhero said:


> Overstated that they could very much qualify as myth. The last thing I would recommend anyone spend their $ on. *Oh and I speak from first hand experiences. Please feel free to look at my cable inventory.*


 
  
 And I also speak from first hand experience, and I must of used 20 other cables ( not including the ones I currently use ) over the years that I can't even remember the names of.
  
 But as was stated in a previous post this is not the thread for a cable discussion.


----------



## longbowbbs

bourneperfect said:


> I'll plead the 5th and take my own advice (option b) right now.
> 
> So, what's everybody's favorite amp they've heard with the HD800 so far? Mine should come as no surprise:
> 
> ...


 
 Cary SLI-80...Lovin' it!


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> negura said:
> 
> 
> > Is Friday not a piss-up day in Ireland?  I am concerned everyone will get back later on with "strong opinions".
> ...


 
 That will be a very happy experience! Enjoy.


----------



## skeptic

audio jester said:


> For those that have felt that the GS-X Mk2 is not top tier for the HD800's, what amps are in your opinion?




The gsx is a very well executed balanced dynalo. The obvious step forward among SS amps is a dynahi, a much higher power off board heatsink amp, also designed by Dr. Gilmore, with high ohm phones in mind. 

Boggles my mind that there is a waitlist for HeadAmp while a couple of dynahis have been sitting in the FS forums for weeks at a fraction of the cost. 

If my memory is accurate, some diyers/mots (eg qusp) have also expressed a preference for the wire over dynalo/dynahi.


----------



## brunk

skeptic said:


> The gsx is a very well executed balanced dynalo. The obvious step forward among SS amps is a dynahi, a much higher power off board heatsink amp, also designed by Dr. Gilmore, with high ohm phones in mind.
> 
> Boggles my mind that there is a waitlist for HeadAmp while a couple of dynahis have been sitting in the FS forums for weeks at a fraction of the cost.
> 
> *If my memory is accurate, some diyers/mots (eg qusp) have also expressed a preference for the wire over dynalo/dynahi.*


 
 I have been eyeing "the wire" for some time now. That piques my interest even more


----------



## rnadell

longbowbbs said:


> That will be a very happy experience! Enjoy.


 
 Eric, did you listen to the CSP 2+ with 800's?


----------



## longbowbbs

rnadell said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > That will be a very happy experience! Enjoy.
> ...


 
 Richard I spent hundreds of hours with the CSP2+ and the HD800's. It is a wonderful combo! It is a great simple high quality rig.


----------



## skeptic

brunk said:


> I have been eyeing "the wire" for some time now. That piques my interest even more


 
  
 Pretty cool that OPC's big batch of new boards just came in!  I've fallen a little behind in following the thread, but my understanding is that he ordered lots of extras and actually plans to setup a permanent shop in the not too distant future.  http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/237152-wire-official-boards-all-projects-available-here-bal-bal-se-se-lpuhp.html#post3516741
  
 I ordered up a couple of se-se boards to try my hand at a build but only have a small amount of smd soldering experience.  I anticipate I will probably fail big time on the first go around, but I'm going to give it a go regardless.  Should make for an interesting learning experience and, if I pull it off, a very nice ss complement to my bottlehead amps.


----------



## preproman

skeptic said:


> If my memory is accurate, some diyers/mots (eg qusp) have also expressed a preference for the wire over dynalo/dynahi.


 
  
 Which "wire" specifically?


----------



## thegunner100

Reading this thread makes me kind of sad to know that I won't be able to afford any of these amps until I get out of college... I still have to pay off the HD800s xD. For now, I feel like the nfb-10es2 is doing a pretty good job at driving the hd800s, and the uha-6s mkii does a fine job as well. I was really tempted to try the stratus at the NY meet but I knew if I tried it, it would be hard to resist working my ass off to save up for it.
  
 What would you guys say is a step up from the nfb-10es2, but before the end-game amps? Perhaps gungnir/mjolnir, reference 10.32, wa2? My hd800s are modded, so no treble problems here.


----------



## kvtaco17

the AudioGD 11.32 is pretty good with the HD800... I also use it as a stand alone DAC with my beloved little dot... simply its a solid, inexpensive amp... I actually prefer it to the o2 combo and Magni/Modi by a lot. the only amp I really lust after still is the Taboo MKIII... lucid mode is so amazing lol


----------



## brunk

skeptic said:


> Pretty cool that OPC's big batch of new boards just came in!  I've fallen a little behind in following the thread, but my understanding is that he ordered lots of extras and actually plans to setup a permanent shop in the not too distant future.  http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/237152-wire-official-boards-all-projects-available-here-bal-bal-se-se-lpuhp.html#post3516741
> 
> I ordered up a couple of se-se boards to try my hand at a build but only have a small amount of smd soldering experience.  I anticipate I will probably fail big time on the first go around, but I'm going to give it a go regardless.  Should make for an interesting learning experience and, if I pull it off, a very nice ss complement to my bottlehead amps.


 
 Thanks for the info!


----------



## skeptic

My pleasure brunk!
  
 Quote:


preproman said:


> Which "wire" specifically?


 
 Initially, I believe bal-bal, bal-se and se-se (all headphone amps) were the only "wire" amps available.  (See http://www.diyaudio.com/wiki/The_Wire_Headphone_Amp_Build_Wiki )  Out of the various options in the new release (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/237152-wire-official-boards-all-projects-available-here-bal-bal-se-se-lpuhp.html#post3516741 ) hp amp options are limited to bal-bal and se-se, but there are also new power amps.  A psu board is also required, and the current iteration is apparently much improved over what was available in the first gb a year or two ago. 
  
 From his signature block, it looks like qusp went bal-bal.  I have tried but failed to google up the post I'm remembering where he briefly compared it to a dynahi (can't recall which forum it was on).  I was struck by it at the time because I was, and still am, sitting on a couple of dynahi boards as well as the discontinued semis.  Still have some learning to do (particularly re heat sinks and case work) before I feel like I can competently attempt that beast.


----------



## Currawong

Damn about missing that build, it would have been something simple enough that I would have had time to do. I'm sitting on a bunch of dynahi boards as well I haven't had a chance to get around to doing anything with. There was a statement by KG somewhere where he said that I think National Semiconductor came out with an OPAMP that was basically a Dynalo or Dynahi circuit in a chip. That would make sense of why The Wire is so good if that chip was the one it is using.
  
 The point though is that I've been wondering how close one could get to the big, top-end HP amps in a small package for use with the HD-800s. I think though that damping them removes some of their amp picky-ness, making it easier.


----------



## brunk

currawong said:


> Damn about missing that build, it would have been something simple enough that I would have had time to do. I'm sitting on a bunch of dynahi boards as well I haven't had a chance to get around to doing anything with. There was a statement by KG somewhere where he said that I think National Semiconductor came out with an OPAMP that was basically a Dynalo or Dynahi circuit in a chip. That would make sense of why The Wire is so good if that chip was the one it is using.
> 
> The point though is that I've been wondering how close one could get to the big, top-end HP amps in a small package for use with the HD-800s. I think though that damping them removes some of their amp picky-ness, making it easier.


 
 You can still order the wire, it's just that you missed the first batch run that is getting shipped as we speak. I didn't realize orders were going on until today and pleased they don't have a deadline yet.


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> That will be a very happy experience! Enjoy.


 
 Funny thing is i actually ended up in the pub with other friends. Its 05.14 in the morning and i am nice and drunk and listening to captain fantastic and the brown dirt cowboy on t1/WA2. So yea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	













 - that's a lot of Guinness!


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > That will be a very happy experience! Enjoy.
> ...


 
 That may sound 4D in your condition!


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> That may sound 4D in your condition!


 
 HAHA yea. Listening to this at the moment ¬ 
  

  
 Have you ever heard it? You with good taste.


----------



## macbob713

Sennheiser has a shipment of balanced cables for the HD800 arriving at their warehouse in the US next week. I preordered a set last week. I'm planning on using these with the Schitt Mjolinor until the first of the year when I'm planning to order the HDVD800.


----------



## dleblanc343

maxvla said:


> I hear the full extension. Not sure what you are arguing. The HD800 extends naturally deeper than any other headphone I've ever listened to. It has cavernous bass that seems to come from everywhere and nowhere at the same time. It just doesn't throw it in your face like most of the planar magnetics. I've owned the HE-6 and really couldn't stand them. I've owned the LCD-2 and thought they were alright, but overrated. I've heard LCD-3 many times and thought them a slightly improved LCD-2. All 3 are overly bassy.


 
 As much as I love the HD800 (my favorite headphone), it simply cannot extend as well down low compared to the HE6. The driver simply cannot push enough air, and the housing of the HD800 will enhance the presence and cavernous effect of it, but will fail to reproduce the really low end frequencies quite like the HE6.
  
 The HD800 really excels in the portrayal of a realistic sound space, openess and resolution in the higher frequencies; there's really nothing like it.


----------



## Hun7er

Hello,
  
  dleblanc343 you'are completely right. I just add the point that before I'm intestered to speaker amp I was skeptical about the synergy with the HD800. 
  
 I owned a Super 7 and Beta 22 4 chanel, the Audiomat or MCIntosh put it to another league. 
 This headpone is completely transparent, it can be bright, dark, harsh, smooth...This headphone is not responsible about weird sounding, back you should have the right source and amp.


----------



## daverich4

macbob713 said:


> Sennheiser has a shipment of balanced cables for the HD800 arriving at their warehouse in the US next week. I preordered a set last week. I'm planning on using these with the Schitt Mjolinor until the first of the year when I'm planning to order the HDVD800.




Would you happen to have a link or any more information on these cables? I can't seem to Google anything up. Thanks.


----------



## daverich4

bourneperfect said:


> I'll plead the 5th and take my own advice (option b) right now.
> 
> So, what's everybody's favorite amp they've heard with the HD800 so far? Mine should come as no surprise:
> 
> ...




WA22 TS5998 / Sylvania 6SN7GT Bad Boy / USAF596


----------



## Sorrodje

daverich4 said:


> Would you happen to have a link or any more information on these cables? I can't seem to Google anything up. Thanks.


 
  
  
 This ? : http://en-de.sennheiser.com/news/the-ultimate-in-listening-pleasure-the-new-sennheiser-high-end-cables-


----------



## LugBug1

lugbug1 said:


> Question to all....
> 
> Has anyone ever driven these loud enough that they get distortions? I've kind of got a bit of OCD at the mo and I keep wacking em up haha, but I've never heard anything other than clarity and control, no matter how loud.
> 
> Are these drivers invincible?


 
  
  


macedonianhero said:


> They are not invincible and one danger is that they need to play really loud to distort, so the urge might be there to play them too loud. But unlike say the LCD-3s or LCD-X that are rated for 20W, I don't think the HD800s have such a rating from Sennheiser.


 
  
 Just getting back to this subject... Because I need to know haha (I'm obsessed with this at the mo..)
  
 Playing them at high volume won't damage the drivers? I would have to have an amp capable of producing enough voltage that the drivers would fry in order to kill em..? Say if they are rated at 10W. I would need to feed them more than 10W to potentially cause damage. The drivers may then start to distort, but it would be the voltage that would actually cause the damage? Not the volume? 
  
 This is something that I've never been able to find a straight answer for regarding any headphone... Some cheaper made drivers will start to disintegrate through volume alone, Others can handle the volume, but the voice coil would eventually melt with too much voltage.   
  
 This may all seem a little silly, because we (sane people) don't go anywhere near these types of volumes. But just like anything (cars e.g) I want to know what they are capable of and what they are not. And I've not read of a single driver failure with the HD800's. Not one blown driver. Thats not bad going for a 5 year old headphone!


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > That may sound 4D in your condition!
> ...


 
 I have not! I will add it to my list of new music to acquire. Thanks for the recommendation!


----------



## SHAHZADA123

magiccabbage said:


> HAHA yea. Listening to this at the moment ¬
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever heard it? You with good taste.


 
 ME LIKE ZOLID AIR


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> I have not! I will add it to my list of new music to acquire. Thanks for the recommendation!


 
 no problem just don't get the 2009 remaster - its sounds terrible. 
  
 Its one of my all time favorites. A must have album.


----------



## daverich4

sorrodje said:


> This ? : http://en-de.sennheiser.com/news/the-ultimate-in-listening-pleasure-the-new-sennheiser-high-end-cables-




Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for.


----------



## BournePerfect

lugbug1 said:


> Just getting back to this subject... Because I need to know haha (I'm obsessed with this at the mo..)
> 
> Playing them at high volume won't damage the drivers? I would have to have an amp capable of producing enough voltage that the drivers would fry in order to kill em..? Say if they are rated at 10W. I would need to feed them more than 10W to potentially cause damage. The drivers may then start to distort, but it would be the voltage that would actually cause the damage? Not the volume?
> 
> ...


 
  
 To go along with your car analogy-I wondered how fast my motorcycle could go. Drove me nuts. So I decided to push it to the limit firsthand. 162mph. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 So there's only one way for you to find out-it goes something like this:
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  




  
 Good luck-but put some earplugs in first-or just take them off your head and listen to them like speakers. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

magiccabbage said:


> no problem just don't get the 2009 remaster - its sounds terrible.
> 
> Its one of my all time favorites. A must have album.


 
 What kind of music is that? I'm always up to trying something new...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I have not! I will add it to my list of new music to acquire. Thanks for the recommendation!
> ...


 
 Great album... I need a better copy than the 256 mp3 from iTunes though.
  
 180 gram vinyl ordered!


----------



## magiccabbage

bourneperfect said:


> What kind of music is that? I'm always up to trying something new...
> 
> -Daniel


 
 Its folk with a slightly jazzy/soulful feel. definitely one of my favorite albums. Kind of an unsung classic.


----------



## Kendoji

Always loved Solid Air, great album.  But at the moment I'm in a phase where EVERYTHING sounds better out of my HE-500s than my HD 800s, so I'd better duck back out of this thread.


----------



## magiccabbage

kendoji said:


> Always loved Solid Air, great album.  But at the moment I'm in a phase where EVERYTHING sounds better out of my HE-500s than my HD 800s, so I'd better duck back out of this thread.


 
 I have never actually heard the HE500 how does it sound compared to HD800? What amp you using for those? you use the same amp with both cans?


----------



## Kendoji

magiccabbage said:


> I have never actually heard the HE500 how does it sound compared to HD800? What amp you using for those? you use the same amp with both cans?


 
  
 Well, though the HD 800 has more detail, space and is broadly regarded as the 'superior' headphone, the HE-500 is warmer and just has an amazing feelgood factor, especially when playing heavier rock-oriented music.  I listen through my V200 and my Taboo MKIII,  both very nice amps that work well with both cans (always V800 as DAC).  
  
 That said, in the last 30 minutes I found myself suddenly grabbing the HD 800s while playing some old heavy metal from the 80s (Judas Priest and Diamond Head).
  
 They're both amazing cans, but I'm possibly the only person in the world who often reaches for the HE-500 over the HD 800.


----------



## longbowbbs

kendoji said:


> magiccabbage said:
> 
> 
> > I have never actually heard the HE500 how does it sound compared to HD800? What amp you using for those? you use the same amp with both cans?
> ...


 
 The Taboo MK III does love Planers!


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> The Taboo MK III does love Planers!


 
 tubes with planars - i like it. Its not everyday you hear that. Did you have MK III with hd800 before?


----------



## negura

magiccabbage said:


> tubes with planars - i like it. Its not everyday you hear that. Did you have MK III with hd800 before?


 
  
 Besides giving them plenty of juice, this is also because the Taboo MK3 is a well balanced tubes amp in sound signature and tonal balance. It has some of the traits you'd expect from a tube amplifier: great soundstage, microdynamics, body, bass presence, but it also drives fast transients, and has air and spark at the top. Thankfully it's not one of those syrupy, slow and rolled off at the top tube amps.
  
 One of the reasons it works well with the HD800s too is that unlike *some* SS amplifiers it does not exhibit any harshness at the top, while playing to the main strengths of the headphones due to the aforementioned traits.


----------



## DutchGFX

Judas Priest sounds great on open/airy headphones I have found. I have problems on cans with more modern complex metal like Equilibrium and Alestorm. That's why I got the Hd800, so I can see if they work for my metal. The T1 is great but I think the 800 could be more to my liking. I know my He5Le were special for certain genres over the T1 like electronic so that's interesting you like your 500 for rock, I found the LE got congested easily.


----------



## Kendoji

Yeah I definitely prefer the HE-500s for most of the heavy retro rock I listen to (Graveyard, Kadavar, etc...) but every now and then the HD 800s shine (now listening to the Diamond Head albums from the 2000s and it sounds incredible).  Overall I find the HE-500s better for metal - the heavier it gets (black and death metal), the more likely it is that I prefer the Hifimans.


----------



## LugBug1

bourneperfect said:


> Good luck-but put some earplugs in first-or just take them off your head and listen to them like speakers.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 Hahaha ok then if you're sure..... Here i go   I've got me ear plugs in. Helmet is on. Motorhead's Ace of Spades is ready to play. I'm now revving my Suzuki Sansui 500 up.... still revving... revving it up a bit more...
  
 Ok here we go. Number 11 !!!!!!!
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
_AAARRRRRGGGHHHHHHHHYUB*STAAAAARRRRRRD!!!!!!!_ 

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  
 hahhhh... never again haaa... These cats hahh.. get loud haaaa...
  
 pheweee! 
  
  
 Well the drivers seem to be fine... 
  
 But unfortunately it seems I may have prolapsed.


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > The Taboo MK III does love Planers!
> ...


 
 Yes. It was a great combo as well. The Taboo is excellent for the price and it can sing with cheap tubes!


----------



## longbowbbs

dutchgfx said:


> Judas Priest sounds great on open/airy headphones I have found. I have problems on cans with more modern complex metal like Equilibrium and Alestorm. That's why I got the Hd800, so I can see if they work for my metal. The T1 is great but I think the 800 could be more to my liking. I know my He5Le were special for certain genres over the T1 like electronic so that's interesting you like your 500 for rock, I found the LE got congested easily.


 
 Priest is GREAT with the HD800's!


----------



## brunk

@LugBug1 Lol man you made me chuckle on that one!


----------



## Jd007

does anybody know of any good carrying cases for the hd800? preferably hard so its protective, but not too big (otherwise i'll just use the original packaging box). i found this but was wondering if there are any other options?


----------



## brunk

jd007 said:


> does anybody know of any good carrying cases for the hd800? preferably hard so its protective, but not too big (otherwise i'll just use the original packaging box). i found this but was wondering if there are any other options?


 
 That actually looks really nice for size and durability, i dont think you can beat that for the price. Great find!


----------



## AgentXXL

jd007 said:


> does anybody know of any good carrying cases for the hd800? preferably hard so its protective, but not too big (otherwise i'll just use the original packaging box). i found this but was wondering if there are any other options?


 
  
 The one I'm looking at is the Pelican 1300 or 1400 - rugged and watertight, with easy to customize foam interiors. You can usually find the Pelican cases at local camera stores, but lots of online retailers as well.
  
 http://www.pelican.com/cases_detail.php?Case=1400
  
 Dale


----------



## MickeyVee

I've been looking at this for my HD800..
 http://www.audeze.com/products/accessories/ruggedized-travel-case 
  
 Quote:


jd007 said:


> does anybody know of any good carrying cases for the hd800? preferably hard so its protective, but not too big (otherwise i'll just use the original packaging box). i found this but was wondering if there are any other options?


----------



## fortitude

mickeyvee said:


>


 
  
 These two work wonderful, exactly like the audeze case (SKB model)
  
 http://www.skbcases.com/music/products/proddetail.php?f=&id=509&o=&offset=1&c=105&s=78
  
 http://www.pelican.com/cases_detail.php?Case=1300


----------



## MattTCG

I have a NIB Pelican 1300 fs...(shameless plug).


----------



## bearFNF

jd007 said:


> does anybody know of any good carrying cases for the hd800? preferably hard so its protective, but not too big (otherwise i'll just use the original packaging box). i found this but was wondering if there are any other options?


 
 I've used this:
  


Spoiler: simi hard case



Jaben Hippo case large, they fit perfect with no mods needed.


----------



## emertxe

Could anybody help me to decide which amplifier to choose for Sennheiser HD800? Considering Meier Corda Classic, Violectric V200 and Burson Soloist... Tube amplifiers are completely out of question for as I dont like tubes and need the amp to be easily transportable for headphones testing (I just happen to test various headphones for myself a lot so I need a versatile amp).
  
 Thank you very much!


----------



## Dopaminer

emertxe said:


> Could anybody help me to decide which amplifier to choose for Sennheiser HD800? Considering Meier Corda Classic, Violectric V200 and Burson Soloist... Tube amplifiers are completely out of question for as I dont like tubes and need the amp to be easily transportable for headphones testing (I just happen to test various headphones for myself a lot so I need a versatile amp).
> 
> Thank you very much!


 
 Senn`s own HDVA600 - sounds fantastic with HD800, fully balanced, german industrial art, and a really nice size.  Imagine 2 or 2.5 macbook airs stacked up: you could easily carry it in a laptop bag.  It`s also wired 100-240 volts internally, so you carry it abroad !


----------



## emertxe

dopaminer said:


> Senn`s own HDVA600 - sounds fantastic with HD800, fully balanced, german industrial art, and a really nice size.  Imagine 2 or 2.5 macbook airs stacked up: you could easily carry it in a laptop bag.  It`s also wired 100-240 volts internally, so you carry it abroad !


 
  
 The amp is extremely expensive =/ I was looking at something like second hand V200 or Classic... Definitely up to 1000USD. But thank you very much for the tip!


----------



## Sorrodje

Emertxe: I've used a Corda Jazz for 3 monthes with my HD800 and the pairing is very good. Slightly on the sparkly side of perfect neutrality but with great extension and detail. My next purchase is a used concerto . I read many opinions and Concerto/Classic seems to be a slightly more bodied and smoothed upgrade from Jazz. I'm sure the Classic does a great combo with the HD800. another good point is the crossfeed. It's very useful for old Jazz or rock recordings especially. 
  
 V200 is a well known and appreciated option too but I never heard it . i don't know anything aout the Soloist. 
  
 The question is What's your dac ? Jan Meier's gear is transparent so IMO for HD800 a slighly warm and smooth DAC is a good option. The fact is my Jazz allowed me to hear very well dac upgrades


----------



## emertxe

sorrodje said:


> Emertxe: I've used a Corda Jazz for 3 monthes with my HD800 and the pairing is very good. Slightly on the sparkly side of perfect neutrality but with great extension and detail. My next purchase is a used concerto . I read many opinions and Concerto/Classic seems to be a slightly more bodied and smoothed upgrade from Jazz. I'm sure the Classic does a great combo with the HD800. V200 is a well knwon and appreciated option too but I never heard it . i don' know the Soloist.
> 
> The question is What's your dac ?


 
  
  I already have Concerto and find it great! That said, I am most probably selling it along with StageDAC to fully upgrade... My DAC is going to be the Ciúnas. Would like to try something a bit warmer than Concerto... That said, I am not sure HOW MUCH warmer.
  
 I am really tempted to try the V200 but I am quite afraid as people mention worse soundstaging or even imaging with that amp... And I love the soundstage of HD800 (tried many other headphones but the Senns remain my favourite because of that awesome soundstage especially)!


----------



## DarKen23

emertxe said:


> sorrodje said:
> 
> 
> > Emertxe: I've used a Corda Jazz for 3 monthes with my HD800 and the pairing is very good. Slightly on the sparkly side of perfect neutrality but with great extension and detail. My next purchase is a used concerto . I read many opinions and Concerto/Classic seems to be a slightly more bodied and smoothed upgrade from Jazz. I'm sure the Classic does a great combo with the HD800. V200 is a well knwon and appreciated option too but I never heard it . i don' know the Soloist.
> ...


 
 You should consider the A18 amplifier from Yulong.


----------



## emertxe

darken23 said:


> You should consider the A18 amplifier from Yulong.


 
  
 Wow, thanks, the review from project86 looks very promising!


----------



## DarKen23

emertxe said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > You should consider the A18 amplifier from Yulong.
> ...


 
 You're welcome. Im sure youd be more than happy with the pairing.


----------



## emertxe

darken23 said:


> You're welcome. Im sure youd be more than happy with the pairing.


 
  
 Thank you again, really... Any other ideas?


----------



## DarKen23

emertxe said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > You're welcome. Im sure youd be more than happy with the pairing.
> ...


 
 For a warm amp, the A18 was my favorite. There are a few other budget amps like the M-stage, and the balanced version "Quattro" which is said to be a great setup around the HD800. 
  
 Keep in mind that even though the amp has a balanced headphone input, the A18 is not a fully balanced amp--if a balanced amp is what you are looking for. It shouldnt be a deal breaker for that reason though.


----------



## Kendoji

The V200 is great. I haven't heard your other options, but for me it's basically as good as the Taboo MKiii.


----------



## emertxe

kendoji said:


> The V200 is great. I haven't heard your other options, but for me it's basically as good as the Taboo MKiii.


 
  
 Yeah, I am on the fence between V200 vs A18...
  
 V200:
  - slightly more neutral
  - absolutely silent
  - more power
  - more detailed (according to project's review)
  - two 1/4 headphone out (brilliant for testing headphones)
  - better servicable for me (EU)
  
 A18
  - better soundstaging (that's significant for me)
  - more "natural"/warm-sounding (could work better with HD800)
  - working for both 110/220v (this is not very important since it's easy to switch this on V200 internally)


----------



## negura

kendoji said:


> The V200 is great. I haven't heard your other options, but for me it's basically as good as the Taboo MKiii.


 
  
 That is a bit surprising. Having owned the V200 in the past, I would rate the Taboo as several classes above in transparency alone. V200 is quite warm tinted, with a small soundstage, less air at the top, and slower transients. I can see how it sinergizes with the HD800s but it is not even remotely close to the Taboo performance as an amplifier.
  
 I would say your system must have another bottleneck downstream.


----------



## Kendoji

Haha I think the bottleneck is me.


----------



## emertxe

negura said:


> V200 is quite warm tinted, with a small soundstage, less air at the top, and slower transients.


 
  
 Could you tell me how significant these "flaws" are? The way you describe it, one would think the V200 is a bad amplifier...


----------



## negura

emertxe said:


> Could you tell me how significant these "flaws" are? The way you describe it, one would think the V200 is a bad amplifier...


 
  
 Like with anything in audio, it depends on the comparison. I thought the HD650 are quite good until I heard the HD800. 
  
 At its price range the V200 used to be very decent. If one is only going to use it for the HD800s or other neutral headphones it sinergizes well. It doesn't do a lot of justice to Audeze or other warmer headphones.
  
 The Soloist is better overall at that budget range, but it's neutral, so yeah. And these are the HD800s. It's not easy.
  
 The Taboo is in a higher price and performance class.


----------



## LugBug1

emertxe said:


> Thank you again, really... Any other ideas?


 
 Matrix M-stage... No seriously, slightly warmer than neutral with nice soundstage. Detail is not up there with the best, but If you can't afford the best....  
  
 Has very good synergy with the HD800. And you can easily put it in your bag. (man bag)


----------



## negura

kendoji said:


> Haha I think the bottleneck is me.


 
  
 Don't flatter yourself too much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The Taboo will scale a lot with better downstream (more so than the V200).


----------



## DarKen23

emertxe said:


> kendoji said:
> 
> 
> > The V200 is great. I haven't heard your other options, but for me it's basically as good as the Taboo MKiii.
> ...


 
 Between the 2, the V200 is more 'forward' over the A18 but not in any way 'in your face'. The V200 is dead silent with every headphone, the A18 prefers higher impedance cans. 
  
 In the end, I went with the A18 because of its soundstage--The A18 excels marvelously in that aspect. Users who felt the V200 lacked soundstage found the A18 to be the perfect remedy.


----------



## emertxe

lugbug1 said:


> Matrix M-stage... No seriously, slightly warmer than neutral with nice soundstage. Detail is not up there with the best, but If you can't afford the best....
> 
> Has very good synergy with the HD800. And you can easily put it in your bag. (man bag)


 
  
 If I happen to be extremely short on budget, definitely will try the M-stage 
  


negura said:


> Like with anything in audio, it depends on the comparison. I thought the HD650 are quite good until I heard the HD800.
> 
> At its price range the V200 used to be very decent. If one is only going to use it for the HD800s or other neutral headphones it sinergizes well. It doesn't do a lot of justice to Audeze or other warmer headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can understand the Taboo is better... That said, I was asking about how small the soundstage of V200 and transients are in comparison to good amplifiers. Can you comment on that?
  
 Quite a lot of folks talk about great synergy with planar magnetic headphones... On the other hand, your description based on "warmth does not go well with another warmth" makes more sense to me.
  
 I would most probably prefer Meier Corda Classic over the Soloist - should be similar soundwise and I can get the Classic much cheaper... Yeah, in my situation, it's also about money. =/
  


darken23 said:


> Between the 2, the V200 is more 'forward' over the A18 but not in any way 'in your face'. The V200 is dead silent with every headphone, the A18 prefers higher impedance cans.
> 
> In the end, I went with the A18 because of its soundstage--The A18 excels marvelously in that aspect. Users who felt the V200 lacked soundstage found the A18 to be the perfect remedy.


 
  
 That's the problem... I do enjoy HD800 a lot but I also want my amp to perform well with many headphones - I just happen to test headphones and write impressions. I could maybe add HE-500 or K812 to my collection sometime next year and therefore I need an amplifier that is good for the HD800 but still safe enough for other headphones. What do you think? V200. A18 or something else?


----------



## DarKen23

emertxe said:


> lugbug1 said:
> 
> 
> > Matrix M-stage... No seriously, slightly warmer than neutral with nice soundstage. Detail is not up there with the best, but If you can't afford the best....
> ...


As long as you don't use the A18 with in-ear-monitors, it's dead silent


----------



## emertxe

darken23 said:


> As long as you don't use the A18 with in-ear-monitors, it's dead silent


 
  
 I should add that I prefer to listen at low listening levels... Isnt the A18 too warm for other headphones than HD800 or similar?


----------



## DarKen23

emertxe said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > As long as you don't use the A18 with in-ear-monitors, it's dead silent
> ...


Hmm, If you are worried that the amp is overly warm, don't-- you might even find it hard to believe that it's a warm amp.


----------



## emertxe

darken23 said:


> Hmm, If you are worried that the amp is overly warm, don't-- you might even find it hard to believe that it's a warm amp.


 
  
 I see you own HE-400... How does the A18 pair with them? I am aware of how HE-400 sound... They are quite a lot of different from HD800


----------



## DarKen23

emertxe said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm, If you are worried that the amp is overly warm, don't-- you might even find it hard to believe that it's a warm amp.
> ...


The pairing is excellent, the bass is to-die-for. As mentioned in the review, the A18 is a beast--especially with bass, it's not overly done, the quality, texture, and physicality of impact has to be the best I've heard. If you like electronica, this amp should be on top of your list.


----------



## emertxe

darken23 said:


> The pairing is excellent, the bass is to-die-for. As mentioned in the review, the A18 is a beast--especially with bass, it's not overly done, the quality, texture, and physicality of impact has to be the best I've heard. If you like electronica, this amp should be on top of your list.


 
  
 Thanks very much... Will see. I can only find the A18 for like 1000USD here in Europe (including shipping and fees) while the Classic would definitely cost me up to 700USD  (probably like 650USD) including all additional costs. That's a significant difference. Classic is a very safe choice on all fronts but I would definitely like to try the A18. But not for as much money. Also hesitating about the V200 but most probably going to skip one because of its soundstaging (unfortunately) =/ Why does it have to be so difficult?


----------



## Joong

what is usual price of used Hd800 in very good condition?
somebody offers me 800usd.

what about your opinion when hd 800 is ABed with He-5le?
if Hd 800 is noticeable better, i want to buy.
my macine chain is Uberfrost, or Bdp 105 ,and Lry, 

thanks.


----------



## rawrster

800 is a great price for one in good condition


----------



## MattTCG

joong said:


> what is usual price of used Hd800 in very good condition?
> somebody offers me 800usd.
> 
> what about your opinion when hd 800 is ABed with He-5le?
> ...


 
  
 Great price!! I'll take if you don't want it.


----------



## bearFNF

matttcg said:


> Great price!! I'll take if you don't want it.


 
 Yep, re-furbed ones were going for $1100 weren't they?  That is a good price.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

joong said:


> what is usual price of used Hd800 in very good condition?
> somebody offers me 800usd.
> 
> what about your opinion when hd 800 is ABed with He-5le?
> ...


 
 very nice price for good condition.


----------



## spkrs01

I would like to add some comments on the V200..................
  
 It is a revealing and transparent little amp which does very well with many headphones. The V200 does require quality ahead of it to shine. Things like good power cords and I/Cs. It needs to have its ground and low pass filter lifted internally, and also output matched through it pre-gain settings. it needs to be used with it's volume pot at between 12-3pm. With all this done it scales up very very well!
  
 I have used the V200 with my (C)IEMs to the Abyss and cannot fault it at it's price. It is totally void of hiss for IEMs and has enough power for the Abyss. All in all a very versatile amplifier. I have never found the soundstage small on the V200, look elsewhere in the chain............
  
 For me I preferred the V800/V200 over the HDVD800 when I auditioned the latter.


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> Great price!! I'll take if you don't want it.


 
 Hey Matt, have you received the loaner yet? Any impressions so far?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Due here tomorrow. f5...f5...f5  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Waiting can be painful.


----------



## dan.gheorghe

matttcg said:


> ^^ Due here tomorrow. f5...f5...f5
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I always have spare keyboards for these kind of situations ) .


----------



## RUMAY408

The hinge pin popped out of my refurbished HD800 so instead of taking pictures of my earpiece that was off the headband I went instead into complete life saving audio mode and put the pin and the spring back on.  They looked back to normal but the thought it could happen again off warranty scared me. Plus the serial number 8500 clearly dated the HP's as old. So I gave Crutchfield a call and they told me to send them back.  I was reimbursed the full amount and moved on.
  
 After a few days I started to miss the HP's and given the speed and ease of returning them to Crutchfield, I bought new ones this time around and with a serial number >25,000 I am feeling my life is more complete.  So I am once again on the HD800 thread, minus an additional $400, and so it goes on Head-Fi.


----------



## longbowbbs

rumay408 said:


> .....and so it goes on Head-Fi.


 
 Very true....But the music sounds great, Right?


----------



## magiccabbage

rumay408 said:


> The hinge pin popped out of my refurbished HD800 so instead of taking pictures of my earpiece that was off the headband I went instead into complete life saving audio mode and put the pin and the spring back on.  They looked back to normal but the thought it could happen again off warranty scared me. Plus the serial number 8500 clearly dated the HP's as old. So I gave Crutchfield a call and they told me to send them back.  I was reimbursed the full amount and moved on.
> 
> After a few days I started to miss the HP's and given the speed and ease of returning them to Crutchfield, I bought new ones this time around and with a serial number >25,000 I am feeling my life is more complete.  So I am once again on the HD800 thread, minus an additional $400, and so it goes on Head-Fi.


 
 I still didn't get mine yet. The company i ordered from are waiting on a batch from Sennheiser. They probably wont ship till the end of the week. The waiting is killing me, i ordered 3 weeks ago.


----------



## Joong

oppo BDP-105 + Schiit Lyr do well match Hd800?
Oppo Bdp 105 does really well SACD, but i am not sure as DAC.


----------



## RUMAY408

longbowbbs said:


> Very true....But the music sounds great, Right?


 
 Damn straight, man I love those HP's.  I had been going thru the many 100's of my older CD's and vinyl in my collection, and then the hinge pin popped out.  I just couldn't think straight for a while over the next course of action.  So now I'm back at it, it's like a treasure hunt.  So much I had never heard before.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am sitting here with a pile of CD's I just brought up from the basement....The 800's just sing!


----------



## magiccabbage

stop teasing me.


----------



## bearFNF

longbowbbs said:


> I am sitting here with a pile of CD's I just brought up from the basement....The 800's just sing!


 
 Just watched the movie "The Croods" with mine and I was very surprised how good the Sound track is (BP103-uberfrost optical-asgard 2-Taboo MKIII).  They did an excellent job...not a bad movie either.


----------



## longbowbbs

We were going to watch the Croods the other night and watched the 1st episode of the new show "Almost Human" instead (Awesome show!) I don't do a lot of theater with the 800's. I will have to try them with something with a lot of action like Blackhawk down and see how they do.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

joong said:


> oppo BDP-105 + Schiit Lyr do well match Hd800?
> Oppo Bdp 105 does really well SACD, but i am not sure as DAC.


 
 If it's Schiit you're looking for 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 then I'd recommend the Valhalla to the Lyr, for HD800s 
 No experience with Oppo, though.


----------



## MattTCG

longbowbbs said:


> We were going to watch the Croods the other night and watched the 1st episode of the new show "Almost Human" instead (Awesome show!) I don't do a lot of theater with the 800's. I will have to try them with something with a lot of action like Blackhawk down and see how they do.


 
  
 That is a great movie and a lively soundtrack. Should sound fantastic on the hd800!!


----------



## longbowbbs

matttcg said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > We were going to watch the Croods the other night and watched the 1st episode of the new show "Almost Human" instead (Awesome show!) I don't do a lot of theater with the 800's. I will have to try them with something with a lot of action like Blackhawk down and see how they do.
> ...


 
 Nice to know! I will be queuing it up this weekend.


----------



## catspaw

Hi all,
 I am considering buying the HD 800 in the next months (started saving up a month ago), and i was wondering if you could tell me if the Uber Bifrost from schiit or similar priced with the Schiit Asgard (already owned) would be something that could work well with the HD 800. 
 I know people are sugesting 1k amps at least for this HP, but Im probably not gonna go that route. At least not for a while.


----------



## skeptic

Can't comment on the asgard, but there are budget amps that make for very enjoyable listening with hd800s. I am a big proponent of the bottlehead crack as a starter option, and you will learn a huge amount building the kit, which is very doable by a first time diyer. (It is also an excellent warm up for building a mainline, which is sublime with hd800s.) 

On the ss side of the aisle, if you search or skim back through the thread, you will see quite a number of folks praising the mstage and also dynalo based amps, like the soloist, as worthy budget contenders.


----------



## LugBug1

catspaw said:


> Hi all,
> I am considering buying the HD 800 in the next months (started saving up a month ago), and i was wondering if you could tell me if the Uber Bifrost from schiit or similar priced with the Schiit Asgard (already owned) would be something that could work well with the HD 800.
> I know people are sugesting 1k amps at least for this HP, but Im probably not gonna go that route. At least not for a while.


 
 You could do a lot worse than the Asgard with the HD800. The only thing I would say is that the treble may be a little hot. Or analytical.. Depending on how you look at it  Depends on what sound you want as the HD800 are very transparent. The Bitfrost will be fine.


----------



## fortitude

catspaw said:


> Hi all,
> I am considering buying the HD 800 in the next months (started saving up a month ago), and i was wondering if you could tell me if the Uber Bifrost from schiit or similar priced with the Schiit Asgard (already owned) would be something that could work well with the HD 800.
> I know people are sugesting 1k amps at least for this HP, but Im probably not gonna go that route. At least not for a while.


 
  


skeptic said:


> Can't comment on the asgard, but there are budget amps that make for very enjoyable listening with hd800s. I am a big proponent of the bottlehead crack as a starter option, and you will learn a huge amount building the kit, which is very doable by a first time diyer. (It is also an excellent warm up for building a mainline, which is sublime with hd800s.)
> 
> On the ss side of the aisle, if you search or skim back through the thread, you will see quite a number of folks praising the mstage and also dynalo based amps, like the soloist, as worthy budget contenders.


 
  
  
 +1 on the bottlehead crack, I know a few people who prefer this DIY to some of the $1k OTL amps


----------



## catspaw

lugbug1 said:


> You could do a lot worse than the Asgard with the HD800. The only thing I would say is that the treble may be a little hot. Or analytical.. Depending on how you look at it  Depends on what sound you want as the HD800 are very transparent. The Bitfrost will be fine.


 
 I am not really a purist so if need be i will EQ the signal from them PC before it goes into the Bifrost (once i have it that is, currently id be using only the Fiio E17 wich does have a treble control) if the treble is too hot for me.
  
 Im not expecting to get the 100% from the HD800, just dont want to make it underperform massivly to a point where a Sennheiser HD600 would be at the same level .


----------



## palmfish

catspaw said:


> I am not really a purist so if need be i will EQ the signal from them PC before it goes into the Bifrost (once i have it that is, currently id be using only the Fiio E17 wich does have a treble control) if the treble is too hot for me.
> 
> Im not expecting to get the 100% from the HD800, just dont want to make it underperform massivly to a point where a Sennheiser HD600 would be at the same level .



 
To keep things in perspective, all of this amp talk is really a discussion of the last 5%.
 
I have plugged my HD 800's into my iPod and they sound like HD 800's. Don't worry about it - just enjoy them!


----------



## helljudgement

catspaw said:


> I am not really a purist so if need be i will EQ the signal from them PC before it goes into the Bifrost (once i have it that is, currently id be using only the Fiio E17 wich does have a treble control) if the treble is too hot for me.
> 
> Im not expecting to get the 100% from the HD800, just dont want to make it underperform massivly to a point where a Sennheiser HD600 would be at the same level .


 

 Having owned both at one time I could assure you that is never going to happen on the same amp.


----------



## olor1n

catspaw said:


> [...]
> 
> Im not expecting to get the 100% from the HD800, just dont want to make it underperform massivly to a point where a Sennheiser HD600 would be at the same level .


 
  
 I've just reacquired the HD800. Running it direct from my MBP's hp out until I get a balanced cable sorted. I have the HD650 next to it, fully balanced from the system in my sig. The HD800 at its worst is still on another level from its sibling at its best.
  
 Even in this handicapped state, the HD800 still made me get up to check if I'd left my active speakers on, and also causes the occasional and involuntary look over the shoulder to seek the source of a sound. The most obvious absence though is the thundering and subterranean bass I know this headphone is capable of. Can't wait to be able to hook into my proper rig with it. I'd forgotten how good the HD800 is.


----------



## wink

How true....!


----------



## Jd007

olor1n said:


> The most obvious absence though is the thundering and subterranean bass I know this headphone is capable of. Can't wait to be able to hook into my proper rig with it. I'd forgotten how good the HD800 is.


 
 hd650 has thundering bass (more loose, mid-bass to be honest), but hd800 definitely does not lack in subterranean bass (extension).


----------



## Jd007

.


----------



## koiloco

palmfish said:


> catspaw said:
> 
> 
> > I am not really a purist so if need be i will EQ the signal from them PC before it goes into the Bifrost (once i have it that is, currently id be using only the Fiio E17 wich does have a treble control) if the treble is too hot for me.
> ...


 
 +1.  I got to agree 100% with you on this.  HD800 sound very decent from my Fiio E17/E9K combo at the office.  Of course, at home with WA22, HD800 will be at their best but how much better is the tricky question here.


----------



## catspaw

AWSOME!
 Well im 1/4th of the way to have the savings to pick them up. 
 Now I have to paciently wait .


----------



## Sorrodje

I full agree with lasts post and I'm very happy to read that. 
  

 That said, I have my HD800 since august and I think this headphone is the most sensitive can I ever met. Every change of amp or Dac is listenable . Then if a HD800 always stays a  HD800, we can obtain very different HD800 with different gear IMO. I think that speaks a lot of amp here but not so much of DAC.  I experimented personnaly 3 or 4 different dacs ( HRT microstreamer, Cambridge audio dacmagic, Rega DAC , TEAC UD501 , AudioGD DAC 19 DSP , Hegel HD10) and I really found substantial differences.  Finding the good DAC/AMP/HD800 combo is really a complex exercise.
  
 Not necessarily very expensive but complex.  HD800 is on the razor edge. it can sound right or false very easily.


----------



## catspaw

Well, Since i already own the Schiit Asgard, I will get the HD800 and look for a DAC from there.
 I checked that i can get Uber biforst, peechtree Dac-It X, cambridge audio DacMagic plus, Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100, Cambridge Audio Dac Magic, Matrix M_Stage Dac, M2Tech EvoClock, Asus Xonar Essence one plus edition, M2Tech Evo Dac.
  
 Those are basicly the ones i can "buy", and I will test the Bifosrt and Peechtree as those I will have the chance to audition.
 From the Dacs mentioned, anyone with the HD 800 can tell me if I should be looking for any of them?


----------



## rnadell

I suggest you look at the Resonessence Concero. Works well with the 800's.


----------



## Sorrodje

catspaw said:


> Well, Since i already own the Schiit Asgard, I will get the HD800 and look for a DAC from there.
> I checked that i can get Uber biforst, peechtree Dac-It X, cambridge audio DacMagic plus, Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100, Cambridge Audio Dac Magic, Matrix M_Stage Dac, M2Tech EvoClock, Asus Xonar Essence one plus edition, M2Tech Evo Dac.
> 
> Those are basicly the ones i can "buy", and I will test the Bifosrt and Peechtree as those I will have the chance to audition.
> From the Dacs mentioned, anyone with the HD 800 can tell me if I should be looking for any of them?


 
  
 I only can say that the dacmagioc (old model) I owned sound  perfectly with my HD800 and both my SS and tube amps  . unexpensive,  slightly warm and smooth.  A very good option.


----------



## kazsud

I think I may have blown my pair. They don't sound like the ones i heard at a recent meet. Not sure if they were always like this or not but they sound different since the meet. How much does it cost for a repair if it is blown?


----------



## LugBug1

olor1n said:


> I've just reacquired the HD800. Running it direct from my MBP's hp out until I get a balanced cable sorted. I have the HD650 next to it, fully balanced from the system in my sig. The HD800 at its worst is still on another level from its sibling at its best.
> 
> Even in this handicapped state, the HD800 still made me get up to check if I'd left my active speakers on, and also causes the occasional and involuntary look over the shoulder to seek the source of a sound. The most obvious absence though is the thundering and subterranean bass I know this headphone is capable of. Can't wait to be able to hook into my proper rig with it. I'd forgotten how good the HD800 is.


 
 Welcome back. I've recently been enjoying the HD600's (for a change) along side the 800's. I totally love the sound of all of the Senn's flagships, but the HD800's really are on another level. You can adapt to the 600/650 again and fully appreciate them, but just as long as you don't listen to the HD800's in the process, because as soon as you do they sound like toy headphones in comparison.


----------



## LugBug1

kazsud said:


> I think I may have blown my pair. They don't sound like the ones i heard at a recent meet. Not sure if they were always like this or not but they sound different since the meet. How much does it cost for a repair if it is blown?


 
 Can you describe why they sound different? Only if they were blown you wouldn't hear any sound at all. Or if the drivers have been damaged there would be lots of obvious distortion.


----------



## magiccabbage

My HD800's have finally shipped! Cant wait till next week.


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> My HD800's have finally shipped! Cant wait till next week.


 
 Nice! Welcome to the club!


----------



## LugBug1

magiccabbage said:


> My HD800's have finally shipped! Cant wait till next week.


----------



## magiccabbage

Thanks guys.


----------



## MIKELAP

lugbug1 said:


> Welcome back. I've recently been enjoying the HD600's (for a change) along side the 800's. I totally love the sound of all of the Senn's flagships, but the HD800's really are on another level. You can adapt to the 600/650 again and fully appreciate them, but just as long as you don't listen to the HD800's in the process, because as soon as you do they sound like toy headphones in comparison.


 
 i use occasionnally  a pair of Lawton modded Denons d-5000 that i love but unfortunately for them as soon as i get back to the Senns they sound so much better and balanced. But if you feel like thumpin the Denons  can rock .


----------



## LugBug1

mikelap said:


> i use occasionnally  a pair of Lawton modded Denons d-5000 that i love but unfortunately for them as soon as i get back to the Senns they sound so much better and balanced. But if you feel like thumpin the Denons  can rock .


 
 I think its fun to own other headphones as well as the HD800's. But it seems ime, all other headphones I've tried seem to have a certain personality trait.. Like a fat bottom end (as with you and your Denon's), or a politeness in the upper registers like the Audeze for e.g... The HD800's are always a reality check with me. It's like 'ahhhhh thats better' when ever I put them on.


----------



## palmfish

catspaw said:


> Well, Since i already own the Schiit Asgard, I will get the HD800 and look for a DAC from there.
> I checked that i can get Uber biforst, peechtree Dac-It X, cambridge audio DacMagic plus, Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100, Cambridge Audio Dac Magic, Matrix M_Stage Dac, M2Tech EvoClock, Asus Xonar Essence one plus edition, M2Tech Evo Dac.
> 
> Those are basicly the ones i can "buy", and I will test the Bifosrt and Peechtree as those I will have the chance to audition.
> From the Dacs mentioned, anyone with the HD 800 can tell me if I should be looking for any of them?




I currently own the Essence One and can heartily recommend it. The DAC is very highly regarded and the amp section is also very good. Sell your Asgard and go with a one box solution.


----------



## longbowbbs

catspaw said:


> Well, Since i already own the Schiit Asgard, I will get the HD800 and look for a DAC from there.
> I checked that i can get Uber biforst, peechtree Dac-It X, cambridge audio DacMagic plus, Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100, Cambridge Audio Dac Magic, Matrix M_Stage Dac, M2Tech EvoClock, Asus Xonar Essence one plus edition, M2Tech Evo Dac.
> 
> Those are basicly the ones i can "buy", and I will test the Bifosrt and Peechtree as those I will have the chance to audition.
> From the Dacs mentioned, anyone with the HD 800 can tell me if I should be looking for any of them?


 
 I enjoyed the Dac Magic Plus for quite awhile. I am a fan of the Wolfson DAC chips.


----------



## palmfish

I had a DacMagic and a Peachtree Nova in the past as well. Never could tell the difference between them (yes, they sounded great).


----------



## LugBug1

Another +1 for the Cambridge dacs. They've been making them for  most of the history of commercial converters and they make quality gear for the monies. If you can get a Dacmagic-b for under $150 then I'd go for that. Balanced, smooth with respectable detail. I'd have to recommend the Arcam Rdac if you can stretch to it though just for the extra resolution and timing when the going gets rough. Again another bargain at the mo. 
  
 But all of these dacs will be useless without an appropriate amp  300ohm Senn's require a high impedance output amp otherwise you'll get treble and not much bottom end... Tubes, Crack or similar.


----------



## longbowbbs

lugbug1 said:


> Another +1 for the Cambridge dacs. They've been making them for  most of the history of commercial converters and they make quality gear for the monies. If you can get a Dacmagic-b for under $150 then I'd go for that. Balanced, smooth with respectable detail. I'd have to recommend the Arcam Rdac if you can stretch to it though just for the extra resolution and timing when the going gets rough. Again another bargain at the mo.
> 
> But all of these dacs will be useless without an appropriate amp  300ohm Senn's require a high impedance output amp otherwise you'll get treble and not much bottom end... Tubes, Crack or similar.


 
 Find a used Decware CSP2+....Awesome and simple with the HD800's.


----------



## macbob713

I just recieved the Sennheiser balanced cable, and plugged it into the balanced Schitt Mjolinor. Can't comment on sound differences yet, but this is a temporary fix until January when I plan to order the HDVD800 to complete the hopefully synergistic match with the HD800.


----------



## Dopaminer

sorrodje said:


> HD800 is on the razor edge. it can sound right or false very easily.


 
  
 +1.  It can make good quality recordings sound sublime, mediocre recordings sound good, and bad quality recordings sound totally UNLISTENABLE.  Because of this headphone, I deleted about 5 years of iTunes files.......


----------



## Dopaminer

macbob713 said:


> I just recieved the Sennheiser balanced cable, and plugged it into the balanced Schitt Mjolinor. Can't comment on sound differences yet, but this is a temporary fix until January when I plan to order the HDVD800 to complete the hopefully synergistic match with the HD800.


 
 I`ve auditioned the hdvd800+hd800 combo several times now.  You better get some adult diapers for the first listen, you`re gonna crap yourself it`s so good.
  
 I was really interested in the Mjolinor a few months back.  How do you like it with hd800?  Did you get the 2x3xlr cable or the 4xlr?


----------



## RUMAY408

longbowbbs said:


> I enjoyed the Dac Magic Plus for quite awhile. I am a fan of the Wolfson DAC chips.


 
 Try the Meier Daccord out if you can, two high end Wolfson DAC chips.  Beat the two Sabre DAC chips out of my OPPO BDP-105 by a mile in my own head to head comparison.


----------



## magiccabbage

rumay408 said:


> Try the Meier Daccord out if you can, two high end Wolfson DAC chips.  Beat the two Sabre DAC chips out of my OPPO BDP-105 by a mile in my own head to head comparison.


 
 Do you think upgrading from the Rdac to the Daccord would be noticeable? Both have wolfson chips ....


----------



## koiloco

macbob713 said:


> I just recieved the Sennheiser balanced cable, and plugged it into the balanced Schitt Mjolinor. Can't comment on sound differences yet, but this is a temporary fix until January when I plan to order the HDVD800 to complete the hopefully synergistic match with the HD800.


 
 You don't like tube amps?  If you don't mind tube amps, there are great options besides the HDVD800, some will cost less too.


----------



## magiccabbage

koiloco said:


> You don't like tube amps?  If you don't mind tube amps, there are great options besides the HDVD800, some will cost less too.


 
 +1 - WA2. I prefer it. Said this before, i had a whole day with HDVD800 and 600 which i used with the (2000 dollar) Nadm51 DAC and i still preferred my WA2/HD800/Rdac. Just an opinion though.


----------



## koiloco

magiccabbage said:


> +1 - WA2. I prefer it. Said this before, i had a whole day with HDVD800 and 600 which i used with the (2000 dollar) Nadm51 DAC and i still preferred my WA2/HD800/Rdac. Just an opinion though.


 
 In my case, WA22 with my tube combo = sonic heaven.


----------



## RUMAY408

magiccabbage said:


> Do you think upgrading from the Rdac to the Daccord would be noticeable? Both have wolfson chips ....


 
 I have never heard an Rdac so impossible for me to comment on.  Both use the 8741 Wolfson Dac chip, the Meier uses two.


----------



## longbowbbs

rumay408 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I enjoyed the Dac Magic Plus for quite awhile. I am a fan of the Wolfson DAC chips.
> ...


 
 Strong endorsement! I am done DAC rolling for awhile. I am VERY happy with the W4S DAC2 DSDse!


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> Strong endorsement! I am done DAC rolling for awhile. I am VERY happy with the W4S DAC2 DSDse!


 
 and you should be... thats hot stuff


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Strong endorsement! I am done DAC rolling for awhile. I am VERY happy with the W4S DAC2 DSDse!
> ...


 
 After chasing the dragon for a few years it is weird to not be seeking new gear....The wallet is sure happy though! Gee, I guess I'll just listen to some music??!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is that ok around here?


----------



## koiloco

longbowbbs said:


> After chasing the dragon for a few years it is weird to not be seeking new gear....The wallet is sure happy though! *Gee, I guess I'll just listen to some music??!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Absolutely unacceptable behavior!


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > After chasing the dragon for a few years it is weird to not be seeking new gear....The wallet is sure happy though! *Gee, I guess I'll just listen to some music??!!
> ...


 
 I am radical....Beware!


----------



## koiloco

longbowbbs said:


> I am radical....Beware!


 
 Stop with your taboo mentality or I will have no choice but use some Woodoo on you.


----------



## macbob713

dopaminer said:


> I`ve auditioned the hdvd800+hd800 combo several times now.  You better get some adult diapers for the first listen, you`re gonna crap yourself it`s so good.
> 
> I was really interested in the Mjolinor a few months back.  How do you like it with hd800?  Did you get the 2x3xlr cable or the 4xlr?




I bought the 4pin xlr. I'm listening to Ronnie Earl and the Broadcasters latest cd as I write this, and it sounds superb thru this setup. Bass is deep and impactful, the treble is very detailed but not bright, and the soundstage is everything you could want. As great as this is, I'm still going for the HDVD800 in January.
Earlier this evening I tried some jazz with Third Reel, and an SACD of Elvis Presley's 1960 classic, Elvis is Back! The sound is crystal clear. Vocals are right there, as if in the room.
This is a great combo, and a big improvement over the Lyr.


----------



## macbob713

magiccabbage said:


> +1 - WA2. I prefer it. Said this before, i had a whole day with HDVD800 and 600 which i used with the (2000 dollar) Nadm51 DAC and i still preferred my WA2/HD800/Rdac. Just an opinion though.



I do enjoy tube amps, but the only 2 I've owned are the Schitt Valhalla and Lyr. I'm curious how the Sennheiser HDVD800 would sound totally balanced with the HD800.
I can buy this thru BestBuy (Magnolia) with a30day money back guarantee.


----------



## LugBug1

magiccabbage said:


> Do you think upgrading from the Rdac to the Daccord would be noticeable? Both have wolfson chips ....


 
 how about the new IRDAC? Its getting rave reviews so far. I find the Rdac works well with the HD800's as it has a nice rounded presentation. Lots of depth.


----------



## DarKen23

macbob713 said:


> dopaminer said:
> 
> 
> > I`ve auditioned the hdvd800+hd800 combo several times now.  You better get some adult diapers for the first listen, you`re gonna crap yourself it`s so good.
> ...


 
 I still think the wiser choice would be going with the HDVA600 rather than the HDVD800. But if you liked the HDVD800's usb and dac then by all means go for it.


----------



## MattTCG

Just wanted to say that even on inferior equipment, lyr/bf, the hd800 is one of the best hp's that I've heard. The sound stage and resolution are simply mesmerizing. The comfort is supreme. I expected them to be somewhat bright and possibly harsh...they are not.


----------



## longbowbbs

> Originally Posted by *MattTCG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I expected them to be somewhat bright and possibly harsh...they are not.


 
 The haters are wrong.....


----------



## nigeljames

+1


----------



## philo50

+2


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> Just wanted to say that even on inferior equipment, lyr/bf, the hd800 is one of the best hp's that I've heard. The sound stage and resolution are simply mesmerizing. The comfort is supreme. I expected them to be somewhat bright and possibly harsh...they are not.


 
 I bet your wallet is shaking in your back pocket..
  
 Pleased you're enjoying them bud


----------



## olor1n

matttcg said:


> Just wanted to say that even on inferior equipment, lyr/bf, the hd800 is one of the best hp's that I've heard. The sound stage and resolution are simply mesmerizing. The comfort is supreme. I expected them to be somewhat bright and possibly harsh...they are not.


 
  
 Lol. Told you so?


----------



## MattTCG

olor1n said:


> Lol. Told you so?


 
  
 Okay, I concede. I won't be the first time that reputation did not match up the actual experience.


----------



## olor1n

Get some Bugle Boys in that chain. The Globes are fun but they do stifle the HD800.


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> Okay, I concede. I won't be the first time that reputation did not match up the actual experience.


 
 Have you tried them on your vintage steel yet?


----------



## MattTCG

lugbug1 said:


> Have you tried them on your vintage steel yet?


 
  
 Very good on the old Pioneers for sure. The 1280 gives them the best sound but has a light hiss.


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> Very good on the old Pioneers for sure. The 1280 gives them the best sound but has a light hiss.


 
 Shame about the hiss... its the same for me on some of my vintage. Its crazy because then I plug my K701 (62ohm) in and there is no hiss at all :O 
  
 This impedance thing still confuses me!


----------



## magiccabbage

olor1n said:


> Get some Bugle Boys in that chain. The Globes are fun but they do stifle the HD800.


 
 I want to get bugle boys myself. Do you think the change will be very noticeable in WA2 - i have 7308's in now. using 5998 as well.


----------



## Fearless1

matttcg said:


> Just wanted to say that even on inferior equipment, lyr/bf, the hd800 is one of the best hp's that I've heard. The sound stage and resolution are simply mesmerizing. The comfort is supreme. I expected them to be somewhat bright and possibly harsh...they are not.


 
 Did you think that at first listen?,  or did you have that "moment of clarity" like myself?


----------



## koiloco

matttcg said:


> Just wanted to say that even on *inferior equipment, lyr/bf,* the hd800 is one of the best hp's that I've heard. The sound stage and resolution are simply mesmerizing. The comfort is supreme. I expected them to be somewhat bright and possibly harsh...they are not.


 
 and there is nothing inferior about lyr/bf either so don't make it sound like such.
  
 HD800 sound more than decent on my Fiio E17/E9K combo.


----------



## MattTCG

fearless1 said:


> Did you think that at first listen?,  or did you have that "moment of clarity" like myself?


 
  
  
 It took me a couple days to wrap by mind around the presentation. Then I was able to just close my eyes and get lost. Just a beautiful hp.


----------



## Jd007

koiloco said:


> and there is nothing inferior about lyr/bf either so don't make it sound like such.
> 
> HD800 sound more than decent on my Fiio E17/E9K combo.


 
 i did find the lyr (mine had matsu****a 6922 tubes) was not particularly good for the hd800 though. specifically the bass impact and extension was noticeably worse than other amps i've compared to (eg v200, wa2). actually even the $250 little dot mk3 did a better job on the hd800 than the lyr IMO. other areas the lyr was fine, the low frequencies were where i noticed the biggest difference. the lyr was noticeably better than the OTLs I had at driving my he-500 though
  
 but i guess i wouldnt call the lyr inferior overall, but for the hd800 you can definite do better for the money (for less money even, if you dont have any orthos). of course this is all from my own experience


----------



## Dubstep Girl

jd007 said:


> i did find the lyr (mine had matsu****a 6922 tubes) was not particularly good for the hd800 though. specifically the bass impact and extension was noticeably worse than other amps i've compared to (eg v200, wa2). actually even the $250 little dot mk3 did a better job on the hd800 than the lyr IMO. other areas the lyr was fine, the low frequencies were where i noticed the biggest difference. the lyr was noticeably better than the OTLs I had at driving my he-500 though
> 
> but i guess i wouldnt call the lyr inferior overall, but for the hd800 you can definite do better for the money (for less money even, if you dont have any orthos). of course this is all from my own experience


 
  
 i think the WA2 is leagues ahead of the Lyr as well when it comes to the hd 800.the lyr isn't a bad amp with the right tubes, just that OTLs are very nice with hd 800. and with the GEC 6AS7G and the WA2, i think its on the level of just about any other system


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> i think the WA2 is leagues ahead of the Lyr as well when it comes to the hd 800.the lyr isn't a bad amp with the right tubes, just that OTLs are very nice with hd 800. and with the GEC 6AS7G and the WA2, i think its on the level of just about any other system


 
 which is why you should sell me a pair.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i would charge about as much as the people on ebay are selling them for. about 500-600 a pair. and i have 4 pairs
  
 i got 2 pairsof the curved base, both are basically NOS/NIB. and the straight base, one pair is completely NIB and the other is slightly used.


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> It took me a couple days to wrap by mind around the presentation. Then I was able to just close my eyes and get lost. Just a beautiful hp.


 
 Beautiful indeed. I often think how could these be improved in SQ for my personal preference.. And in all honesty I wouldn't change a thing.


----------



## 7ryder

I have a question about the HD800s and output impedance.
  
 I'm currently using my pair with a Benchmark DAC2 HGC which has an output impedance of close to zero. I read recently on one of the HD800 threads (and I can't find it now) that the HD800s sound better with a higher output impedance (in fact, I think the new Sennheiser amps are in the 40 ohm range or so), otherwise the bass impact is lacking which is what I appear to be experiencing. Frankly, the bass impact from my ES5's with an AK120 is much better on the same material than with my desktop rig.  
  
 Have any of you experienced the same with an amp with low output impedance?  Benchmark claims that the zero output impedance provides the best control of the transducers, but based upon the descriptions I'm reading here, I'm thinking that this isn't a good match for the HD800s.
  
 I am thinking about getting a SS amp for the HD800s, so should I be looking for an output impedance greater than zero, in the range of the Sennheiser amps or something else?
  
 Thanks.
  
 ChrisG


----------



## Sorrodje

I personally experienced the HD800 with my Corda Jazz and Jazz output impedance is near to zero. Bass was equal or even better ( better extension)  than what I experienced from my Tube amp. and this tube amp proposes both transformed (mesured 10 Ohms output) and OTL ( far more Ohms but I didn't find any reliable source to prove a precise value) ouputs 
  
 I experienced far more differences with different sources than with diffferent amps.


----------



## magiccabbage

sorrodje said:


> I personally experienced the HD800 with my Corda Jazz and Jazz output impedance is near to zero. Bass was equal or even better ( better extension)  than what I experienced from my Tube amp. and this tube amp proposes both transformed (mesured 10 Ohms output) and OTL ( far more Ohms but I didn't find any reliable source to prove a precise value) ouputs
> 
> I experienced far more differences with different sources than with diffferent amps.


 
 when you say sources do you mean DAC's or the music itself.


----------



## Sorrodje

magiccabbage said:


> when you say sources do you mean DAC's or the music itself.


 
  
 Good question. 
  
 Indeed, The most important thing to my hears after the headphone itsef is the Music itself. I'm sad because a big part of my collection is near to unlistenable  with my HD800. 
  
 But when I say sources here  I meant  DAC. I tried many and I heard substantial differences with different consequences on HD800 sound.


----------



## Maxvla

You aren't comparing apples to apples though. A full size open headphone is at a disadvantage in bass by design when compared to an iem. Not only is the transducer much further away from the ear drum, it is a much larger driver to move, and it isn't a sealed environment, the biggest factor.


----------



## 7ryder

I thought about that after I posted. Thanks for confirming


----------



## BleaK

How are the Woo audio 2 with the HD800, anyone here have any good experience with it?


----------



## magiccabbage

bleak said:


> How are the Woo audio 2 with the HD800, anyone here have any good experience with it?


 
 Its brilliant! People talk about T1/WA2 which is brilliant. I prefer HD800 with it though. An great pairing. The HD800 sounds so warm and has great dept - doesn't loose any detail really. The bass is great as well which really surprised me when i heard it first. I could not believe how good the bass was!


----------



## MickeyVee

Oh man.. I've read so many great things about the WA2 HD800 pairing that I'm questioning my decision to go with the WA7.  I got the WA7 for its flexibility but am seriously considering the WA2.  After owning the Lyr, I was driving myself crazy with tube rolling and don't want to go back to that insanity (for me).  Is the WA2 in stock configuration fabulous with the WA2?


----------



## magiccabbage

mickeyvee said:


> Oh man.. I've read so many great things about the WA2 HD800 pairing that I'm questioning my decision to go with the WA7.  I got the WA7 for its flexibility but am seriously considering the WA2.  After owning the Lyr, I was driving myself crazy with tube rolling and don't want to go back to that insanity (for me).  Is the WA2 in stock configuration fabulous with the WA2?


 
 To be honest you will probably have to roll tubes. I auditioned the Hd800's on 3 separate occasions and each time i had it for the day. I purchased it recently and it will arrive on Wednesday. I can try it with stock tubes when it comes if you want. Another thing - people say that with old recordings the hd800 can be awful but i listened to 2 whole sam cooke albums straight through with HD800/WA2 and the sound was amazing even though these albums wee recorded in the 50's. I just really like the pairing. You should try go to a meet or something to hear it. Its funny, i actually had to organise the first irish headphone meet to hear the hd800's.


----------



## M-13

Has the WA2 been improved since it first came out? Or is it pretty much the same?


----------



## magiccabbage

m-13 said:


> Has the WA2 been improved since it first came out? Or is it pretty much the same?


 
 I have no idea, You have heard it?


----------



## M-13

magiccabbage said:


> I have no idea, You have heard it?


 

 No. I only ask because most of thei impressions I've read are kind of old. I'm wondering if they improved or updated the design. But yeah thanks for impressions of the WA2


----------



## BleaK

magiccabbage said:


> Its brilliant! People talk about T1/WA2 which is brilliant. I prefer HD800 with it though. An great pairing. The HD800 sounds so warm and has great dept - doesn't loose any detail really. The bass is great as well which really surprised me when i heard it first. I could not believe how good the bass was!




Thank you for the impressions! Sounds like a lovely pairing


----------



## koiloco

mickeyvee said:


> Oh man.. I've read so many great things about the WA2 HD800 pairing that I'm questioning my decision to go with the WA7.  I got the WA7 for its flexibility but am seriously considering the WA2.  After owning the Lyr, I was driving myself crazy with tube rolling and don't want to go back to that insanity (for me).  Is the WA2 in stock configuration fabulous with the WA2?


 
 There will be a huge improvement with upgraded tubes from Woo, though not required.  Roll other more expensive options in later once the amp has settled down.  Just buy the tubes you know for sure are good.  Buy them once, buy them right.  Don't get tube itch.  WA2 is lovely with HD800.  I heard it at a recent meet.  Either WA2 or WA6SE would be my choice in that $ range.  I bought my WA22 mainly cuz :
 1.  Fully take advantage of balanced out from my DAC
 2.  Have a touch more pwr to drive my HE500 when I don't want to drive it my Emotiva
 3.  Balanced connections front and back, You can pretty much plug any HP connectors into the WA22
 4.  I will send it back for pre-amp upgrade so I can feed it into my Emotiva after the year
  
 Woo product quality is beyond well built.  Very industrialized design.


----------



## Boss429

matttcg said:


> Just wanted to say that even on inferior equipment, lyr/bf, the hd800 is one of the best hp's that I've heard. The sound stage and resolution are simply mesmerizing. The comfort is supreme. I expected them to be somewhat bright and possibly harsh...they are not.


 
  
 Please don't say that, I have been using the Bifrost/Lyr as my deciding factor in *NOT* getting them.


----------



## MickeyVee

I definitely have to agree with MattTCG on this one.. even on the Bifrost/Lyr, the HD800 are the best headphones that I have ever heard.


----------



## brunk

So, I have placed an order for "The Wire" BAL-BAL version and payment has been made for this batch. Does anyone here have experience with this amp for the HD-800? I'll be using the Yulong DA8 preamp, as the designer intended it to be used this way. Is unity gain enough? At first glance it seems that it should be just fine.


----------



## DutchGFX

Edited out to avoid confusion


----------



## brunk

dutchgfx said:


> I wouldn't go for Unity. Especially for higher impedence loads like the HD800, you will want some voltage gain.


 
 I may be mistaken here, but i dont think headphone impedance has anything to do with gain, but sensitivity does...


----------



## RUMAY408

I had a friend, who's into auto audio, check out all my headphones.  He has never experienced higher end HP's. His opinion, as he checked out David Gilmour's "On An Island" CD, the HD800 was hands down the best.


----------



## 7ryder

koiloco said:


> There will be a huge improvement with upgraded tubes from Woo, though not required.  Roll other more expensive options in later once the amp has settled down.  Just buy the tubes you know for sure are good.  Buy them once, buy them right.  Don't get tube itch.  WA2 is lovely with HD800.  I heard it at a recent meet.  Either WA2 or WA6SE would be my choice in that $ range.  I bought my WA22 mainly cuz :
> 1.  Fully take advantage of balanced out from my DAC
> 2.  Have a touch more pwr to drive my HE500 when I don't want to drive it my Emotiva
> 3.  Balanced connections front and back, You can pretty much plug any HP connectors into the WA22
> ...


 
 Jack offers a preamp option for the WA22?


----------



## koiloco

7ryder said:


> Jack offers a preamp option for the WA22?


 
 Yes!  $400 custom upgrade.  Only full balanced XLR connection though.  My plan is to run WA22 into my Emotiva.  So I will have to use 2 - XLR to RCA cables.  I will lose some voltage with that cable but it's alright.  To have the WA22's tube goodness as pre amp and the pwr from my Mini-X into 1 pot, this is an investment I am willing to spend on.  I love my HE500 that much.


----------



## DutchGFX

Edited out to avoid confusion


----------



## brunk

dutchgfx said:


> Higher impedence headphones in general want more voltage, while low impedece Wang more current, just as a general rule of thumb. So assode from volume based on sensitivity, you don't want to starve the cans of voltage.


 
 That still has nothing to do with gain, what you're touching on has to do with power output of said circuit at a given load. I recommend you do some reading, here's a good start.
  
 Ideally, you want the least amount of gain possible.


----------



## catspaw

catspaw said:


> Well, Since i already own the Schiit Asgard, I will get the HD800 and look for a DAC from there.
> I checked that i can get Uber biforst, peechtree Dac-It X, cambridge audio DacMagic plus, Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100, Cambridge Audio Dac Magic, Matrix M_Stage Dac, M2Tech EvoClock, Asus Xonar Essence one plus edition, M2Tech Evo Dac.
> 
> Those are basicly the ones i can "buy", and I will test the Bifosrt and Peechtree as those I will have the chance to audition.
> From the Dacs mentioned, anyone with the HD 800 can tell me if I should be looking for any of them?


 
 Thanks for the answers guys. Seems most of those dacs should be ok for the HD 800. Its gonna be a long wait till I can buy them (3 months moreless), but I am already hyped about it .


----------



## Dubstep Girl

yes the WA2 and hd 800 pairing is very good...


----------



## DutchGFX

brunk said:


> That still has nothing to do with gain, what you're touching on has to do with power output of said circuit at a given load. I recommend you do some reading, here's a good start.
> 
> Ideally, you want the least amount of gain possible.




Ahhh you are right if course. I was tired. Must have been getting to my head. Yeah gain and sensitivity are related. I'm actually in the process of changing my amp from Unity Gain, it won't drive my T1's. I am going with a 4x because I'll be driving very insensitive K240 Sextetts with the amp, so I'll report back.


My HD800 arrived at my post office and are going to be delivered today


----------



## brunk

dutchgfx said:


> Ahhh you are right if course. I was tired. Must have been getting to my head. Yeah gain and sensitivity are related. I'm actually in the process of changing my amp from Unity Gain, it won't drive my T1's. I am going with a 4x because I'll be driving very insensitive K240 Sextetts with the amp, so I'll report back.
> 
> 
> My HD800 arrived at my post office and are going to be delivered today


 
 Hey no worries  What amp will you be using for the HD-800?


----------



## DutchGFX

brunk said:


> Hey no worries  What amp will you be using for the HD-800?



Burson Soloist but my computer crashed this morning and automatic repair didn't work, and neither did system restore, so I might actually need to call Microsoft for once. Last time it took them 6 hours to fix my computer haha


----------



## Frank I

Been listening to the HD800 today with the WA22 and it is an excellent combination. The Moon Black Dragon is the cable I am using balanced with the hd800. Making guid music.


----------



## olor1n

The right side of my headband adjustment is a tad loose. It doesn't quite click and lock along the adjustment markers as the left side. I've detached the headband padding to expose the mechanism. There's a small ball that slides over grooves on the metal part of the headband. I've tried pressing down on the small plate that secures the ball but that doesn't increase the pressure. Has anyone had this issue?


----------



## koiloco

frank i said:


> Been listening to the HD800 today with the WA22 and it is an excellent combination. The Moon Black Dragon is the cable I am using balanced with the hd800. Making guid music.


 

 +1 100% and I don't have the best tubes either.


----------



## skeptic

olor1n said:


> The right side of my headband adjustment is a tad loose. It doesn't quite click and lock along the adjustment markers as the left side. I've detached the headband padding to expose the mechanism. There's a small ball that slides over grooves on the metal part of the headband. I've tried pressing down on the small plate that secures the ball but that doesn't increase the pressure. Has anyone had this issue?




I have the same issue with mine. They don't slide while on my head, but the one side often does if I pick them up by the headband. If you come up with a fix, please let me know. I'm planning to reach out to sennheiser about it sometime soon.


----------



## bearFNF

I actually had to put a mark (sharpie dot) where I need mine to be due to mine moving so easily...


----------



## lamboy1

hello everyone,
                        is anyone using the SQ-84 V2 with the 800's. I listen 90% vinyl and the  sound is very good.


----------



## thegunner100

So is anyone with the $1000+ amps here going to get the Vali to compare?


----------



## DarknightDK

Just ordered the vali. I can compare it with my WA22 on the HD800.


----------



## kvtaco17

thegunner100 said:


> So is anyone with the $1000+ amps here going to get the Vali to compare?


 
 Y bother? the hype train dictates the Vali will make anything 100x more better-er
  
 Seriously though, the HD800's don't require a expensive rig to sound amazing... the Bottlehead Crack, AudioGD 11.32, M-Stage, Little Dot MK1+ and o2 all sound pretty good with them!


----------



## BournePerfect

I can compare my Vali against my notes/memory of my ZDSE, WA5LE, Luxman P1u, Bryston BHA-1, and m-Stage primarily. Those are the amps that I am most familiar with in my stable-especially with the HD800s.
  
 And let's not turn this into another amp/$$ debate people-it gets old. Bottom line-if you haven't heard the HD800 with certain amps-regardless of cost-put a lid on it. The HD800 is a sonic chameleon in which nobody on Headfi has heard it's ceiling. Even then, that unicorn, proverbial ceiling is subject to, uh, subjective preferences.
  
 Moving on: my Vali shipped oday via Priority Mail, and should be here Wednesday. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## thegunner100

Excellent, I'm looking forward to hearing impressions with the hd800 + vali and comparing it iwith my own. Of course we all have different dacs so it'll be a bit different. 
  
 I'm just looking for a really great budget amp that suits my preference as I won't be afford to afford any of the high end amps for quite a while.


----------



## MacedonianHero

frank i said:


> Been listening to the HD800 today with the WA22 and it is an excellent combination. The Moon Black Dragon is the cable I am using balanced with the hd800. Making guid music.


 
 Glad you're enjoying the combination Frank. I really did when I owned the WA22.


----------



## bearFNF

I heard the Vali with my own HD800's at Canjam and will be ordering one soon.  It is very good in my opinion.  I like the idea of having a small tube amp I can use on the road with the HD800's. I will be comparing it to my Asgard 2 and my Taboo MKIII once it gets here.  will be also trying it with Modi and Uberfrost.  I expect it to be very nice with either.
  
 but as others have said you need to hear it for yourself...


----------



## drez

7ryder said:


> I have a question about the HD800s and output impedance.
> 
> I'm currently using my pair with a Benchmark DAC2 HGC which has an output impedance of close to zero. I read recently on one of the HD800 threads (and I can't find it now) that the HD800s sound better with a higher output impedance (in fact, I think the new Sennheiser amps are in the 40 ohm range or so), otherwise the bass impact is lacking which is what I appear to be experiencing. Frankly, the bass impact from my ES5's with an AK120 is much better on the same material than with my desktop rig.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think there are 2 separate phenomenon relating to output impedance with dynamic headphones - one is frequency response, and the other is damping factor.  In a headphone such as HD800 the impedance changes across the frequency response.  An amplifier with close to zero output impedance will be least affected by the impedance curve of the headphone and possibly have elevated bass response reflecting the impedance curve.
  
 Damping factor affects the ability for the amplifier to provide greater control over the bass response and stop unwanted movement of the driver.  The lower the lower the output impedance, the higher the damping factor.  Some people feel that the HD800 are "overdamped" with amplifiers with very low output impedance and maybe prefer a little more bass decay and possibly boosted midbass due to the impedance curve.  At least this is how I understand these things.


----------



## MickeyVee

Ordered the Vali this morning.  Will be comparing to the WA7 with both the WA7 DAC and the Dragonfly.  It will be interesting to see how the DF/Vali combo compares with the WA7.


----------



## brunk

In regards to low cost amps for the HD-800, I'll be building the BAL-BAL version of "The Wire" very soon. All for about $140, sans case of course. It might very well be regarded as one of the best amps around for the HD-800, which is why I'm building it. The cost of ownership just makes it that much sweeter


----------



## olor1n

skeptic said:


> olor1n said:
> 
> 
> > The right side of my headband adjustment is a tad loose. It doesn't quite click and lock along the adjustment markers as the left side. I've detached the headband padding to expose the mechanism. There's a small ball that slides over grooves on the metal part of the headband. I've tried pressing down on the small plate that secures the ball but that doesn't increase the pressure. Has anyone had this issue?
> ...


 
  
 Have you tried removing the pad to get to the adjustment mechanism? I'd like to fully detach the plastic arm from the metal band to bend that little plate with the ball. It's locked on the last rung though. Not sure if it'll give with some pull but I don't want to force it.


----------



## koiloco

brunk said:


> In regards to low cost amps for the HD-800, I'll be building the BAL-BAL version of "The Wire" very soon. All for about $140, sans case of course. It might very well be regarded as one of the best amps around for the HD-800, which is why I'm building it. The cost of ownership just makes it that much sweeter


 
 More info please.  I would like to do some DIY also.  Thx.


----------



## RUMAY408

brunk said:


> In regards to low cost amps for the HD-800, I'll be building the BAL-BAL version of "The Wire" very soon. All for about $140, sans case of course. It might very well be regarded as one of the best amps around for the HD-800, which is why I'm building it. The cost of ownership just makes it that much sweeter


 
 Can it handle all the 12th you throw at it and an even bigger question where did you get that DIY amp?


----------



## brunk

koiloco said:


> More info please.  I would like to do some DIY also.  Thx.


 
 Sure. I don't know if you have done some DIY amps before, but this isn't beginner friendly because it's SMD. I'd say it's intermediate level though.
  
 - Perfectly flat FR from DC to over 100kHz
 - No phase shift from 0-100kHz
 - No capacitors (except for PSU)
 - Extremely low harmonic distortion
 - Extremely low IM distortion
 - Extremely low noise floor
 - Ability to drive down to 4 ohms with no load dependence
 - Enough voltage swing to drive any reasonable headphone set.
 - Excellent input CMRR
 - Simple circuitry using the best parts available.
  
 See link below, and scroll down for measurements. Really a remarkable amp that your eyes will have you in disbelief for its size.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/headphone-systems/179298-wire-ultra-high-performance-headphone-amplifier-pcbs.html
  
 EDIT: The distortion is so low that I'll be hearing my DAC before hearing the amp, and the DA8 is no slouch lol


----------



## brunk

rumay408 said:


> Can it handle all the 12th you throw at it and an even bigger question where did you get that DIY amp?


 
 See my previous post


----------



## koiloco

Thx!  I will check it out.  I have done plenty of DIY in the past, though not with HP amps.  Only one was a crack with a friend.


----------



## RUMAY408

brunk said:


> Sure. I don't know if you have done some DIY amps before, but this isn't beginner friendly because it's SMD. I'd say it's intermediate level though.
> 
> - Perfectly flat FR from DC to over 100kHz
> - No phase shift from 0-100kHz
> ...


 
 Thank you Brunk.


----------



## brunk

koiloco said:


> Thx!  I will check it out.  I have done plenty of DIY in the past, though not with HP amps.  Only one was a crack with a friend.


 
 I think you would do OK then. Just find an old motherboard and practice soldering/de-soldering the SMD bits and you should be good to go


----------



## koiloco

brunk said:


> I think you would do OK then. Just find an old motherboard and practice soldering/de-soldering the SMD bits and you should be good to go


 
 Good tip!  those will take a bit more attention.  General soldering, I have no problem with.


----------



## FlySweep

Looking forward to how "The Wire" turn out for you brunk.. if it's as good as I've heard, I also look forward to badgering you to build me one.


----------



## brunk

flysweep said:


> Looking forward to how "The Wire" turn out for you brunk.. if it's as good as I've heard, I also look forward to badgering you to build me one.


 
 Hehe you bet!


----------



## 24Bit

I'm considering purchasing the HD800 to use primarily with my Burson Conductor SL.  I have both dac chips, the warm 1793 and the extremely pure and neutral 9018.  Has anyone any experience with this combo?  If so, I'd like to read your thoughts on the rig.


----------



## preproman

macedonianhero said:


> Glad you're enjoying the combination Frank. I really did when I owned the WA22.


 
  
 I agree with here Peter.  I liked it, but not as much as the GX- X mk2


----------



## Frank I

The WA22 is excellent for 2K and the GSX at close to 3K is excellent as well. They are all good and one may prefer one over the other or  visa versa but for 2K the W222 makes them sing with the stock tubes.  I would imagine this could be further tailored with some exotic tubes to step them up even more,


----------



## magiccabbage

I will finally have my hd800's in a few hours.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

frank i said:


> The WA22 is excellent for 2K and the GSX at close to 3K is excellent as well. They are all good and one may prefer one over the other or  visa versa but for 2K the W222 makes them sing with the stock tubes.  I would imagine this could be further tailored with some exotic tubes to step them up even more,


 
  
 the EML 274B is quite nice on the WA22 with the hd 800.


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> I agree with here Peter.  I liked it, but not as much as the GX- X mk2


 
 I had about $1k of tubes on the WA22 and loved the combination...that said, I'd still take the GS-X MK2 as well.


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> the EML 274B is quite nice on the WA22 with the hd 800.


 
 I  am sure that it can be stepped up for sure with better tubes. I am enjoying it with the hd800 and T1 and also th slow impend acne cans. I am waiting for an lCD2 Jack is sending me for them also. I like what I hear though.  Listening to the T1 on the WA 6SE right now. To morrow I will listen to the WA2


----------



## daniel0407

Hi All,
  
 I wrote a post few minutes ago, but something happened (?) and it did not get published. So, I will write it again, and if for any reason, the old want is there, please my excuses.
  
 There are two questions that I want to formulate regarding the setup I am using with the HD800 I just got few hours ago. First, if any of you have listen to the DAC I am using, a Lindemann USB Dac. I bought it today more or less following an impulse without much reflexion. It was an offer, almost half the usual price, and the very few reviews I found on the Internet were all possitive, but in Head-Fi there are any (that I could found).
  
 Second, is about why it is said everywhere that the HD800 is overanalytical, that lacks musicality, that is oversibilant, and lack bass. Well, I have just spend about three hours with them, but using my test songs, with some of Ella Fitzgerald, some pop music in spanish (well recorded pop music: Enrique Bunbury), Angel (Massive Attack), etc.. I did not notice any lack of bass, and the sound was very involvent. The headphones has been already burn in, were in exhibition in the store, so they kept they running more or less constantly (I would say, more than 200 hours at very least). It could be of course that after a few days/weeks my impression will change, that is why I am asking: is it a real fact that the HD800 has all those characteristics (overanalytical, lacks of musicality, over sibilant, lack of bass), or it depends on the setup?
  
 My other components are: very basic Denon CDP > toslink > Lindemann DAC > Lehmann BCL > HD800.
  
 Thanks for your answer,
  
 Daniel


----------



## magiccabbage

frank i said:


> I  am sure that it can be stepped up for sure with better tubes. I am enjoying it with the hd800 and T1 and also th slow impend acne cans. I am waiting for an lCD2 Jack is sending me for them also. I like what I hear though.  Listening to the T1 on the WA 6SE right now. To morrow I will listen to the WA2


 
 I look forward to your WA2 impressions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  you have T1 right?


----------



## AgentXXL

daniel0407 said:


> It could be of course that after a few days/weeks my impression will change, that is why I am asking: is it a real fact that the HD800 has all those characteristics (overanalytical, lacks of musicality, over sibilant, lack of bass), or it depends on the setup?
> 
> My other components are: very basic Denon CDP > toslink > Lindemann DAC > Lehmann BCL > HD800.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The answer to your questions is really only something that you can answer. If you don't find any of these faults with your HD800, then your answer is the HD800 is perfect and has none of those faults!   Plain and simple, we all hear differently so what sounds like sibilance and a lack of bass to one person might sound dull and too thumpy to another. That said, I think the HD800 are a very natural headphone, revealing what you feed them with. A well recorded source with a decent DAC and  amplifier (and they don't have to cost a fortune) is usually a real treat!
  
 Sit back, listen to your favorite music and don't let your mind worry about whether the HD800s have any of those characteristics. If/when you encounter something you don't like, then start looking for ways to correct it. But most of all, just ENJOY them!
  
 Dale


----------



## AgentXXL

magiccabbage said:


> I will finally have my hd800's in a few hours.


 
  
 Plenty of time to clean your ears so you get maximum benefit! 
  
 Dale


----------



## Frank I

magiccabbage said:


> I look forward to your WA2 impressions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I do


----------



## koiloco

frank i said:


> The WA22 is excellent for 2K and the GSX at close to 3K is excellent as well. They are all good and one may prefer one over the other or  visa versa but for 2K the W222 makes them sing with the stock tubes.  I would imagine this could be further tailored with some exotic tubes to step them up even more


 
 When I had the HD800 for 2 weeks I tried the stock tubes first on the WA22, then the upgraded tubes.  The improvements were audibly obvious.


----------



## Frank I

I am sure they would make a big improvement and thats what great about tube amps you can real step up the sound and change the sound to your liking.


----------



## drez

daniel0407 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I wrote a post few minutes ago, but something happened (?) and it did not get published. So, I will write it again, and if for any reason, the old want is there, please my excuses.
> 
> ...




I would say some of the claims are real ie that they are relatively bright headphones (ie that they are not 100% flat in frequency response), and some of them are statements of taste eg. thin, lack of bass, over-analytical (I agree with nome of these though). Some are just a reflection of the equipment used eg. sibilant, analytical, unmusical (again not with my equipment). There are many possibilities.


----------



## olor1n

skeptic said:


> olor1n said:
> 
> 
> > The right side of my headband adjustment is a tad loose. It doesn't quite click and lock along the adjustment markers as the left side. I've detached the headband padding to expose the mechanism. There's a small ball that slides over grooves on the metal part of the headband. I've tried pressing down on the small plate that secures the ball but that doesn't increase the pressure. Has anyone had this issue?
> ...


 
  
  


bearfnf said:


> I actually had to put a mark (sharpie dot) where I need mine to be due to mine moving so easily...


 
  
 OK, so this turned out to be an easy fix. It's a little fiddly but all I used was a small flathead screwdriver, tweezers and small pliers. First you detach the headband padding as per this *clip*. You'll then see the adjustment mechanism on the underside of the metal band. There's a small plate holding the ball which glides over the adjustment grooves (*pic*).
  
 I used a small flathead screwdriver to gently pry the ball from its seat. Make sure you don't let this roll away. It's tiny! Once out of the way I then used the tweezers to detach the small plate from the edge of the plastic (where it just clips on). When you have that plate it's then just a matter of gently bending the part where the ball sits (I used the pliers for this).
  
 To put it all back together you just align the ball on a headband groove. Place the plate over it, ensuring the ball is seated correctly. You then apply some pressure to get the plate to clip back onto the edge of the plastic. Re-attach the headband padding.
  
 My right side adjustment is now perfect. It still glides smoothly up and down but now it locks with that tactile click on each adjustment marker.


----------



## magiccabbage

Just got my hd800 - YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## kvtaco17

Congrats!


----------



## Dopaminer

magiccabbage said:


> Just got my hd800 - YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
 You waited a loooong time for them!  Enjoy !


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> Just got my hd800 - YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
 Congrats! Enjoy the ride....


----------



## magiccabbage

thanks guys. Time for some bill withers!


----------



## brunk

@magiccabbage Welcome to the club!


----------



## LugBug1

Congrats Magic! I think we're all a bit excited for you, its been a long wait ha 
  
 I know you've heard them before, but are they as good as you remember?


----------



## Boss429

Congrats Magic, please post some impressions when you can pull yourself away from them.


----------



## magiccabbage

lugbug1 said:


> Congrats Magic! I think we're all a bit excited for you, its been a long wait ha
> 
> I know you've heard them before, but are they as good as you remember?


 
 Better! I definitely prefer them to my T1's. They are really surprising me, i thought some of my older albums would sound a bit sharp and harsh like Aretha's "lady soul" or James Browns "hot pants" but they sound amazing. Even some of my old metal albums sound great. I thought the treble would be bad on those but no. I have been listening for 5 hours straight - no fatigue or anything like discomfort. The one album that did sound a bit sharp on the vocal was Melody Gardot's - "my one and only thrill" which is funny because that is the album that i thought would sound warmer. My WA2 with tubes probably help with the treble on older music. 
  
 By the way I got a 20% Discount because of the delay in delivery and that was 20% off 879 euro. A great deal for anyone thinking of getting a pair. The site is avclass.nl . I think its down at the moment, hopefully the sale is still on and they dont put the price up when the site comes back online. They are nice people.


----------



## bearFNF

^^^Sweet, always nice when someone does right by their customer.  Congrats...


----------



## LugBug1

magiccabbage said:


> Better! I definitely prefer them to my T1's. They are really surprising me, i thought some of my older albums would sound a bit sharp and harsh like Aretha's "lady soul" or James Browns "hot pants" but they sound amazing. Even some of my old metal albums sound great. I thought the treble would be bad on those but no. I have been listening for 5 hours straight - no fatigue or anything like discomfort. The one album that did sound a bit sharp on the vocal was Melody Gardot's - "my one and only thrill" which is funny because that is the album that i thought would sound warmer. My WA2 with tubes probably help with the treble on older music.
> 
> By the way I got a 20% Discount because of the delay in delivery and that was 20% off 879 euro. A great deal for anyone thinking of getting a pair. The site is avclass.nl . I think its down at the moment, hopefully the sale is still on and they dont put the price up when the site comes back online. They are nice people.


 
 Sounds like you got a bargain! 
  
 Yeah, I'm really not surprised that you aren't finding them fatiguing. It's becoming such an myth with these headphones. I also listen to a lot of old recordings (mainly Jazz) and they never fatigue me. Oh! try some Julian Lage ; See how they perform with a great modern acoustic recording.


----------



## magiccabbage

lugbug1 said:


> Sounds like you got a bargain!
> 
> Yeah, I'm really not surprised that you aren't finding them fatiguing. It's becoming such an myth with these headphones. I also listen to a lot of old recordings (mainly Jazz) and they never fatigue me. Oh! try some Julian Lage ; See how they perform with a great modern acoustic recording.


 
 I been there today already. Listened to the whole Gladwell album. Love his version of freight train....


----------



## LugBug1

magiccabbage said:


> I been there today already. Listened to the whole Gladwell album. Love his version of freight train....


 
 haha should have known you'd have done that album already


----------



## Dubstep Girl

longbowbbs said:


> Congrats! Enjoy the ride....


 
  
  
 +1
  
 grats!!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

frank i said:


> I  am sure that it can be stepped up for sure with better tubes. I am enjoying it with the hd800 and T1 and also th slow impend acne cans. I am waiting for an lCD2 Jack is sending me for them also. I like what I hear though.  Listening to the T1 on the WA 6SE right now. To morrow I will listen to the WA2


 
  
 The LCD-2 with WA6-SE and 596 should be very nice. it was my favorite combo next to the T1/WA2.


----------



## macbob713

Congrats on the HD800. If you are willing to try a very well recorded acoustic jazz set which really showcase what the 800 can do, try the new cd by the New Gary Burton Quartet, featuring an all star line up including Julian Lage. This record has superb, accessible music which sound stunning.


----------



## magiccabbage

macbob713 said:


> Congrats on the HD800. If you are willing to try a very well recorded acoustic jazz set which really showcase what the 800 can do, try the new cd by the New Gary Burton Quartet, featuring an all star line up including Julian Lage. This record has superb, accessible music which sound stunning.


 
 I have it, its great but i think gladwell is a better album


----------



## magiccabbage

here is a good hd800 album - sounds great!!


----------



## macbob713

magiccabbage said:


> I have it, its great but i think gladwell is a better album



I haven't heard of Gladwell, what is it? I'm always up for new music.


----------



## magiccabbage

macbob713 said:


> I haven't heard of Gladwell, what is it? I'm always up for new music.


 
  that Richard Bona album is really amazing on headphones especially track 3,4 and 7.


----------



## daniel0407

Dear all,

Are the cable connection in the headphones slightly loose and move a little on its socket? I read it is normal, just want to confirm.

Daniel


----------



## RUMAY408

magiccabbage said:


> that Richard Bona album is really amazing on headphones especially track 3,4 and 7.


 
 Congrads Cabbage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The HD800 are just a step above the T1.  Hearing is believing.  A well recorded piece of audio comes alive with these HP's.  The old CD's I have come to life.  Tonight I was listening to The Cars "Heartbeat City"  the keyboards and synthesizers so light and musical, can't wait to hear another CD, very addicting.
  
 Gladwell may be next on my agenda.


----------



## DutchGFX

My computer crashed a few days ago randomly so I haven't been able to test with my music but using iTunes store samples the HD800 is slightly better than T1 but I'll definitely need a tube amp because they lack a bit of bass on the Soloist.


----------



## Joong

Hi guys,

Once I told you that I purchased HD800s at 800 USD from Amazon.com.
It was fraud!!!
I was dealing with Amazon.com, and actually I was dealing with fraud.
Even though every step of transaction, I confirmed by emailing to Amazon and at the same time I verified the mail address of Amazon.com.
However, I lost 800USD!!!!! :mad:

My trusted Amazon.com has changed their face.
I am very disappointed who has been a faithful client since 13 years ago with annual purchasing around 10,000 USD.

Please be very careful when you dealing with Amazon.com.
Fraud can be started with auto-confirmation from OFFICIAL AMAZON.COM. 
Amazon will welcome you when there is no problem, but when you are in trouble They never respond to your cry.:mad:


----------



## RUMAY408

joong said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Once I told you that I purchased HD800s at 800 USD from Amazon.com.
> It was fraud!!!
> ...


 
 That sux. Was it a seller really on Amazon?


----------



## thegunner100

joong said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Once I told you that I purchased HD800s at 800 USD from Amazon.com.
> It was fraud!!!
> ...


 

 Did you buy DIRECTLY from amazon or a third party seller? There is no way amazon will directly sell a NEW pair of HD800s for just $800 due to Sennheiser's strict MAP.


----------



## Joong

it was a third party dealer, who was supposedly controlled by Amazon.
The seller opened the storefront on Amazon.com.
I might publish all my email chain for the case for the protection of head-fier.


----------



## thegunner100

If the seller asked you to contact him outside of amazon through email, then it was almost certainly a scammer. Also, Amazon will never ask you for a bank transfer or anything of the sort.


----------



## RUMAY408

joong said:


> it was a third party dealer, who was supposedly controlled by Amazon.
> The seller opened the storefront on Amazon.com.
> I might publish all my email chain for the case for the protection of head-fier.


 
 Please do that, in fact a thread could probably do just as well, I have my own beef with a real seller on Amazon that lures headphone people like me in, with real looking deals, and then "oops" do not have any left, but they will sell you something else.


----------



## macbob713

magiccabbage said:


> that Richard Bona album is really amazing on headphones especially track 3,4 and 7.



Thanks for the tip, I just ordered the cd from amazon.


----------



## Joong

thegunner100 said:


> If the seller asked you to contact him outside of amazon through email, then it was almost certainly a scammer. Also, Amazon will never ask you for a bank transfer or anything of the sort.



because of the fact that you mentioned, I notified immediately to Amazon for their asking by email to verify this demand being from you or not.
Also I notified Amazon by visiting Amazon website directly via CONTACT US.
What I got is that "it is safe by Amazon protection."


----------



## thegunner100

joong said:


> because of the fact that you mentioned, I notified immediately to Amazon for their asking by email to verify this demand being from you or not.
> Also I notified Amazon by visiting Amazon website directly via CONTACT US.
> What I got is that "it is safe by Amazon protection."


 

 Hmm... well I know that lately there has been a scammer trying to sell hd800s on amazon for around $700-800 and asks the buyer to contact him by email. He then asks for your address and then you get an email from "amazon". It looks totally legit and the return email address looks legit as well but the invoice asks for a bank transfer to ITALY. Obviously this is a scam. He is making new amazon accounts to do this.
  
 It might or might not be the same case as yours, but I hope this helps the other people who are reading this. Gl with your case...


----------



## Joong

you are right.
Please read emails below, THE GREATING WAS FROM FRAUD USING AMAZON ADDRESS.


----------



## Maxvla

Got scammed and it was easy to detect. Italy wire transfer and amazon-orders-services.com, not amazon.com. Sorry, but you should have seen that a mile away.


----------



## thegunner100

maxvla said:


> Got scammed and it was easy to detect. Italy wire transfer and amazon-orders-services.com, not amazon.com. Sorry, but you should have seen that a mile away.


 

 Yeah.... sorry, unfortunately I don't think there is much that Amazon can do to help you. If a deal is too good to be true, then it usually is.


----------



## bearFNF

Don't take this as criticism of your English but,
  
 If you copied the emails fully (un-altered) the ones supposedly from amazon have all the tell tales of a scammer. (i.e. bad grammar and the tone of the emails and the threats are not amazon...)
  
 I would have picked up the phone and called them or had them call be back, as I have had to do in other instances.  You might also make sure your bank account is secure.  Let them know what happened so they can make sure they don't try to back hack into your account.


----------



## Joong

bearfnf said:


> Don't take this as criticism of your English but,
> 
> If you copied the emails fully (un-altered) the ones supposedly from amazon have all the tell tales of a scammer. (i.e. bad grammar and the tone of the emails and the threats are not amazon...)
> 
> I would have picked up the phone and called them or had them call be back, as I have had to do in other instances.  You might also make sure your bank is secure.  Let them know what happened so they can make sure they don't try to back hack into your account.



I just visited my bank account and noticed that they drew twice the amount that I authorized.
Thank you for your advice.


----------



## brunk

This is a classic "If it's too good to be true, it probably is". Plus, bank transfers are an automatic red flag for a scam. No legit consumer product company does this.


----------



## BleaK

daniel0407 said:


> Dear all,
> 
> Are the cable connection in the headphones slightly loose and move a little on its socket? I read it is normal, just want to confirm.
> 
> Daniel




I got the same, I think it's normal.


----------



## daniel0407

bleak said:


> I got the same, I think it's normal.


 
 Hi BleaK,
  
 Many thanks for your reply.
  
 Daniel


----------



## LugBug1

joong said:


> I just visited my bank account and noticed that they drew twice the amount that I authorized.
> Thank you for your advice.


 
 That really sucks bro. Thanks for sharing your bad experience so that others can be aware.


----------



## catspaw

joong said:


> I just visited my bank account and noticed that they drew twice the amount that I authorized.
> Thank you for your advice.


 
 I dont know your bank policies but in some cases you can get your transfer back. Obviously it takes some work but if you go to the police and its posible to trace it, They might just detain the guy and return the cash (long shot, but it worked for more than one guy I know).
  
 Obviously, be carefull in the future. "Dream Deals" are rearly that in reality, and the reason a SCAM actually works, is becouse of people beliving its an offer they rearly gonna get so they need to jump on it right away.
 Now, I know that loosing that cash sucks, but in a way you payed 1600 dollars for a lesson that is actually much more valuable than that (there are people out there that lost their homes or life savings on things like those, and it includes legal ways, like a credit in a bank).
  
 On the HD800 Topic, Anyone knows if the HD800 pads can be changed? I really like beyerdynamic pads, so Im thinking of modding the HD800 when i get them for moar comfort .


----------



## magiccabbage

catspaw said:


> I dont know your bank policies but in some cases you can get your transfer back. Obviously it takes some work but if you go to the police and its posible to trace it, They might just detain the guy and return the cash (long shot, but it worked for more than one guy I know).
> 
> Obviously, be carefull in the future. "Dream Deals" are rearly that in reality, and the reason a SCAM actually works, is becouse of people beliving its an offer they rearly gonna get so they need to jump on it right away.
> Now, I know that loosing that cash sucks, but in a way you payed 1600 dollars for a lesson that is actually much more valuable than that (there are people out there that lost their homes or life savings on things like those, and it includes legal ways, like a credit in a bank).
> ...


 
 I don't know if this can be done. Its funny though because i prefer the hd800 pads, if you have bigger ears the T1 is slightly uncomfortable. I find myself readjusting the T1's after about 3 hours. I listened to hd800 for 8 hours yesterday and there was no comfort issue. Imagine what the hd800 would look like with t1 pads.... lol


----------



## emertxe

I find HD800 to be significantly more comfortable than dt880 or t1... the pads are just smoother and subjectively disappear when listening.


----------



## magiccabbage




----------



## LugBug1

^ nice bud


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nice!!!


----------



## magiccabbage

thanks guys. moving through hour 13, exciting stuff....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   i don't wanna go to the gym at all...........


----------



## LugBug1

Here, theres no reason why you cant take em to the Gym... Portable amp (car battery) bit of MC Hammer playing (showing my age)
  
 Just ignore the stares from the uninformed.


----------



## magiccabbage

lugbug1 said:


> Here, theres no reason why you cant take em to the Gym... Portable amp (car battery) bit of MC Hammer playing (showing my age)
> 
> Just ignore the stares from the uninformed.


 
 lol...... that wont be happening Im afraid


----------



## M-13

magiccabbage said:


> thanks guys. moving through hour 13, exciting stuff....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Take the HD800 to the gym. Problem solved and now everyone gets to enjoy your music too. A double benefit?


----------



## magiccabbage

gym is closed now, i didn't bother going. enjoying wa2/hd800 too much. Im moving on to classic rock in the listening session. Pink Floyd and Steely Dan sound incredible.


----------



## LugBug1

magiccabbage said:


> *gym is closed now, i didn't bother going. *enjoying wa2/hd800 too much. Im moving on to classic rock in the listening session. Pink Floyd and Steely Dan sound incredible.


 
 Aye. That's how it starts. 
  
 This time next year they'll be lifting you by crane through your roof (wearing the HD800's) coz you'll be unable to move your own a*se.


----------



## bearFNF

lugbug1 said:


> Aye. That's how it starts.
> 
> This time next year they'll be lifting you by crane through your roof (wearing the HD800's) coz you'll be unable to move your own a*se.


 

 I thought the same thing, first step to four hundred pound audiophile...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Like I have room to talk...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Been sitting here all day not going outside due to listening to mine...


----------



## magiccabbage

bearfnf said:


> I thought the same thing, first step to four hundred pound audiophile...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


lugbug1 said:


> Aye. That's how it starts.
> 
> This time next year they'll be lifting you by crane through your roof (wearing the HD800's) coz you'll be unable to move your own a*se.


 
 HAHAHAHAHA... My housemate left the house to go in town earlier at around 10. she came back there a few minutes ago, walked into the room and said " have you been sitting there the whole time?". I said "yep" and then she replies " that was 14 hours ago, Jesus!" 
  
 To think, i still haven't gotten to Stevie wonder yet, there wont be much sleeping tonight! Inner-visions here i come


----------



## LugBug1

^^^ ok now some Radiohead. Its late!


----------



## edwardzhuang

Very valuable information to know for the New hd800s.


----------



## BournePerfect

lugbug1 said:


> ^^^ ok now some Radiohead. Its late!


 
  
 ...a _cracked poly-styyyyyyrene maaaan..._
  
_-_Daniel


----------



## Dopaminer

magiccabbage said:


> thanks guys. Time for some bill withers!


 
  
 I first heard Bill Withers when I was a teenager and listening to a lot of crap music.  It was from his live album where they start the show with `Use Me` and it`s super funky.  At the end, as the applause is dying down, a woman in the audience shouts out, "ONE MORE TIME!" and Bill is like, "One more time?" and the crowd goes crazy, so he counts off to the band again and they do it again.  It was a turning point for me, musically.  I had to throw out all my CDs.....  
 Thanks for reminding me of this genius that I had forgotten about.  He will be in my HD800s soon !


----------



## catspaw

Well, thanks to the HE-400 forum i found out about Florence+The Machine. So this is a rather nice site to even look for music .
  
 I think the Beyer pads are very nice but if the HD800 are better, im all in .


----------



## Blurpapa

dopaminer said:


> Sure John,
> 
> I really recommend checking this place out, Andix Audio
> 
> ...




Thanks for this Dopaminer. It was very unfortunate that I didn't call in advance and Andix was closed when I got there 
But all is not lost! I have a friend who lives in Tokyo. He isn't into stuff like this but he should be able to help me pick up and ship an amp back to me in Singapore.

I'm looking for a balanced amp unit for my HD800 which I will feed from my DAC. May I know if you have any suggestions on which model to pick?
Is the HPA45 the only model they have, and we swap in our fav tubes? Does Mr Ishii's shop work like that?

Thanks again

John


----------



## LugBug1

bourneperfect said:


> ...a _cracked poly-styyyyyyrene maaaan..._
> 
> _-_Daniel


 
 Thats actually my all time fave song


----------



## magiccabbage

dopaminer said:


> I first heard Bill Withers when I was a teenager and listening to a lot of crap music.  It was from his live album where they start the show with `Use Me` and it`s super funky.  At the end, as the applause is dying down, a woman in the audience shouts out, "ONE MORE TIME!" and Bill is like, "One more time?" and the crowd goes crazy, so he counts off to the band again and they do it again.  It was a turning point for me, musically.  I had to throw out all my CDs.....
> Thanks for reminding me of this genius that I had forgotten about.  He will be in my HD800s soon !


 
 What is your favorite album? I love +'Justments 


lugbug1 said:


> ^^^ ok now some Radiohead. Its late!


 
 just got up. im gonna give Radiohead a go, i think in rainbows first, that was the album that broke the seal for me. I listen to the thom yorke album last night and it sounded amazing on hd800!


----------



## kn19h7

blurpapa said:


> Thanks for this Dopaminer. It was very unfortunate that I didn't call in advance and Andix was closed when I got there
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 From the website it seems they have only one model for balance headphones:
*ＨＰＡ－ＰＲＯ　６ＢＸ７　店頭視聴できます　バランス型ヘッドフォン対応　完全バランスアンプ　デジタル入力のみです*
 ... and this model only accepts digital input, which means you won't be able to use your dac with it = =


----------



## Dopaminer

blurpapa said:


> Thanks for this Dopaminer. It was very unfortunate that I didn't call in advance and Andix was closed when I got there
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 He has several models, including a balanced version with XLR jacks. I believe every amp he makes includes the same 24/192 DAC which is in mine.  It`s great, and has optical, coaxial and USB inputs.  Of course there are also RCA analogue inputs, if you want to use your own DAC. I sometimes use my TEAC DAC this way.  Also, the amps have speaker terminals, and my new Q-Acoustics 2020i stand mounters sound decent in my small Tokyo apartment.  
  
 EDIT:  I didn`t see kn19h7`s post above; I didn`t realize the balanced version is digital-in only and that is clearly what the above Japanese text says.


----------



## Dopaminer

magiccabbage said:


> What is your favorite album? I love +'Justments


 
 I`m going to check that one.  This is the album I mentioned:


----------



## magiccabbage

dopaminer said:


> I`m going to check that one.  This is the album I mentioned:


 
 yea its one of my favorite live albums. the version of harlem on there  is the best one i think even better than the studio version.


----------



## skeptic

olor1n said:


> OK, so this turned out to be an easy fix. It's a little fiddly but all I used was a small flathead screwdriver, tweezers and small pliers. First you detach the headband padding as per this *clip*. You'll then see the adjustment mechanism on the underside of the metal band. There's a small plate holding the ball which glides over the adjustment grooves (*pic*).
> 
> I used a small flathead screwdriver to gently pry the ball from its seat. Make sure you don't let this roll away. It's tiny! Once out of the way I then used the tweezers to detach the small plate from the edge of the plastic (where it just clips on). When you have that plate it's then just a matter of gently bending the part where the ball sits (I used the pliers for this).
> 
> ...


 
  
 olor1n - thanks so much for figuring this out and posting the solution!  After dissembling the pieces, I struggled a bit with exactly how to bend the small metal bracket (that holds the bearing in place).  Eventually realized I could just hold it with my pliers by the ring (that the ball sits in) and simple press against my work bench until the ring was slightly angled vis-a-vis the clips.  I set the ball back under the ring, slid the clips back on to the plastic edge of the headband and presto - my previously loose right slider is now behaving just like the one on the left.  
 I'm thrilled to have this annoying issue fixed!  If you're ever in LA, hit me up so I can buy you a beer (or several)


----------



## olor1n

No worries skeptic. My adjustment never slid when wearing the headphone - only when picking it up by the band. It gnawed at me though that one side wasn't as secure when aligned with an adjustment marker and the clicks weren't as tactile as the other side. I was so relieved to find the fix quite benign.


----------



## RUMAY408

Fisher 100T vintage (1960) tube preamp.  Currently enjoying the phono preamp stage via Meir Corda Classic Amp.  Vinyl and HD800 were made to go together.


----------



## magiccabbage

very nice rumay!!


----------



## longbowbbs

rumay408 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Vintage gear is so cool....Nice to be able to use it with the 800's!


----------



## daniel0407

Hi all,
  
 I have a question related to the durability of the HD800. I am a new owner, less than a week, and quite obsessive/compulsive, specially with relatively expensive items. Would you consider the HD800 to be durable? Does it resist normal use, or should be use with super extra care? What is driving me a little crazy is the cable connection, which is a little loose. Does this connection is durable, despite being loose? Does it resist a accidental drag? Have you got problems with the general construction quality of the headphones?
  
 Many thanks for your answers,
  
 Daniel


----------



## LugBug1

daniel0407 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have a question related to the durability of the HD800. I am a new owner, less than a week, and quite obsessive/compulsive, specially with relatively expensive items. Would you consider the HD800 to be durable? Does it resist normal use, or should be use with super extra care? What is driving me a little crazy is the cable connection, which is a little loose. Does this connection is durable, despite being loose? Does it resist a accidental drag? Have you got problems with the general construction quality of the headphones?
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Daniel, you're not the only obsessive/compulsive one around here  It comes with the territory haha. If the cables connection is a little loose but doesn't make any noise than that is perfectly normal. A lot of peeps only remove the cable if they upgrade it, so there may not be that many that know if theirs are loose or not. 
 The HD800's are one of the most durable hp's out there. They are built to last. For the 5 years that they have been around, the amount of things that have gone wrong with them that has been documented must be less than 0.00001 %. The silver paint will flake over time. This can't be helped, but its is very minimal and can be covered again with a silver cover up pen. The drivers are the toughest moving coil drivers in production at the moment and can only be blown by using enough power to cause deafness not only to you but your whole family from the sound leakage. You have steel covering the drivers and a tough metal housing. Just treat them like you would treat a lover. And that lover will stay with you for ever in good shape. 
  
(When I say treat them like a lover, doesn't mean you should coat them in baby oil and drip hot wax on their torso whilst hanging them from the roof with nipple clamps... Just saying)


----------



## daniel0407

lugbug1 said:


> Hi Daniel, you're not the only obsessive/compulsive one around here  It comes with the territory haha. If the cables connection is a little loose but doesn't make any noise than that is perfectly normal. A lot of peeps only remove the cable if they upgrade it, so there may not be that many that know if theirs are loose or not.
> The HD800's are one of the most durable hp's out there. They are built to last. For the 5 years that they have been around, the amount of things that have gone wrong with them that has been documented must be less than 0.00001 %. The silver paint will flake over time. This can't be helped, but its is very minimal and can be covered again with a silver cover up pen. The drivers are the toughest moving coil drivers in production at the moment and can only be blown by using enough power to cause deafness not only to you but your whole family from the sound leakage. You have steel covering the drivers and a tough metal housing. Just treat them like you would treat a lover. And that lover will stay with you for ever in good shape.
> 
> (When I say treat them like a lover, doesn't mean you should coat them in baby oil and drip hot wax on their torso whilst hanging them from the roof with nipple clamps... Just saying)


 
 Many thanks for your answer LugBug1,
  
 The pair I got has been in exhibition in the store, so even if I have not remove the cable ever, probably they did. The connection is loose, if you move the cable, the sound does not get affected at all, so the electrical connection is perfectly fine. And it is just comforting to read they are durable enough, and that I am not the only obsessive/compulsive in Head-Fi xD
  
 Thanks again,
  
 Daniel


----------



## 24Bit

Thinking of trading my LCD-3 for a used HD800+ cash.  Can't handle the fit issues I have with the Audezes anymore.  Would like to know if anyone has experience with the Burson Conductor SL and the HD800.  If so, thoughts?


----------



## lamboy1

"Vinyl and HD800 were made to go together"
  
 I could not agree more!!!!


----------



## silversurfer616

As for durability,I have serial 854 and they still sound amazing despite a few tiny chips here and there.But this is a headphone for me and not an investment.For me things must look used at some stage.


----------



## lamboy1

"Vinyl and HD800 were made to go together"
  
 I could not agree more!!!!


----------



## lamboy1

"Vinyl and HD800 were made to go together"
 could not agree more


----------



## philo50

silversurfer616 said:


> As for durability,I have serial 854 and they still sound amazing despite a few tiny chips here and there.But this is a headphone for me and not an investment.For me things must look used at some stage.


 
 couldn't agree more........+1


----------



## magiccabbage

30+ hours on hd800, listening to Van Morrison - Moondance........... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











, no harshness left at all now. So smooth with WA2. Im afraid they are leaving the T1's for dead. I think they just suit my musical tastes a lot more. 
  
 I listened to Pet Sounds the whole way through for the first time today, man what an album. Why did i never give that album a chance? An old record, i thought there might be some treble spikes and brightness. No such thing. Pure butter. I am really enjoying myself the past few days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What a headphone.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

u need GEC 6AS7G and bugle boys....


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> Van Morrison - Moondance.


----------



## Dopaminer

magiccabbage said:


> 30+ hours on hd800, listening to Van Morrison - Moondance...........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Mine are at 188 hours, somehow sounding better all the time.  I believe they really started to sound otherworldly around 100+ hours.  
  
 Recently got the re-master-special-edition-super-duper-quad-disc Moondance from HDTracks and while it contains a few duds, it sounds awesome and some of the unreleased versions are amazing.  For contemporary magic I strongly recommend Galactic:


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> u need GEC 6AS7G and bugle boys....


 

  


dopaminer said:


> Mine are at 188 hours, somehow sounding better all the time.  I believe they really started to sound otherworldly around 100+ hours.
> 
> Recently got the re-master-special-edition-super-duper-quad-disc Moondance from HDTracks and while it contains a few duds, it sounds awesome and some of the unreleased versions are amazing.  For contemporary magic I strongly recommend Galactic:


 
 thanks for posting, i will be sure to check it out. 
  
 Just back from the pub. Full of Guinness! Feeling great.


----------



## kamalz

lamboy1 said:


> "Vinyl and HD800 were made to go together"
> 
> I could not agree more!!!!


 
  
   That is the exact rumours  i heard in Jaben headphone shop..


----------



## DutchGFX

You should all go listen to Pick up the Pieces by Average White Band. Fantastic on the HD800's. 

Impressions so far, a little bright with my Soloist. Hoping to get a Crack kit for my birthday Friday so tubes should help a bit. Definitely a superior headphone to the T1 but not sure if I like it more


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> thanks for posting, i will be sure to check it out.
> 
> Just back from the pub. Full of Guinness! Feeling great.


 
  
  





  

  
  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A1834-6AS7G-OSRAM-BROWN-BASE-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-PAIR-M1-/370629001234


----------



## longbowbbs

dutchgfx said:


> You should all go listen to Pick up the Pieces by Average White Band. Fantastic on the HD800's.
> 
> Impressions so far, a little bright with my Soloist. Hoping to get a Crack kit for my birthday Friday so tubes should help a bit. Definitely a superior headphone to the T1 but not sure if I like it more


 
 Nice blast from the past!


----------



## magiccabbage

Ok there are some albums i still prefer on t1 over hd800. Namely Paul simon's "one trick pony" and George Duke's - "dont let go"


----------



## RUMAY408

magiccabbage said:


> Ok there are some albums i still prefer on t1 over hd800. Namely Paul simon's "one trick pony" and George Duke's - "dont let go"


 
 For me the T1 is better at fast moving Rock and harder bass numbers, acoustic and harmonies the HD800 wins hands down.  I feel the HD800 is capable of digging deeper into songs, it's like doubling your albums, it changes the audio that much.


----------



## magiccabbage

rumay408 said:


> For me the T1 is better at fast moving Rock and harder bass numbers, acoustic and harmonies the HD800 wins hands down.  I feel the HD800 is capable of digging deeper into songs, it's like doubling your albums, it changes the audio that much.


 
 yea im having great fun now swapping headphones. The HD800 keeps getting better though its a lot smoother now. its like 70% percent of my collection suits HD800 and the other 30% goes to the T1.


----------



## RUMAY408

magiccabbage said:


> yea im having great fun now swapping headphones. The HD800 keeps getting better though its a lot smoother now. its like 70% percent of my collection suits HD800 and the other 30% goes to the T1.


 
 I'm happy with the pairing, the weight with the HE400's really affected my HP choice, heavy HP's just discourage my desire to put them on.


----------



## macbob713

Grooving on the new cd by Dr Lonnie Smith, In the Beginning Vol 1 and 2. This is a fabulous live recording featuring all Smith penned tunes. The good doctor is flying hi in the Hammond B3 organ, in Octet mode. Yousa! Sounds really, really good on the HD800. you are there good.


----------



## koiloco

magiccabbage said:


> yea im having great fun now swapping headphones. The HD800 keeps getting better though its a lot smoother now. its like 70% percent of my collection suits HD800 and the other 30% goes to the T1.


 
 You are not helping.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If you said 80% to 20%, I would have ordered the HD800 already.


----------



## magiccabbage

koiloco said:


> You are not helping.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 what do you listen to mostly?
  
 you have Wa22? if so i would go with hd800. its supposed to be a great pairing. the t1 might sound a little light on wa22 from what i hear.


----------



## koiloco

magiccabbage said:


> what do you listen to mostly?
> 
> you have Wa22? if so i would go with hd800. its supposed to be a great pairing. the t1 might sound a little light on wa22 from what i hear.


 
 I was teasing you.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's what DG told me too but she also likes her T1 a lot.  I was lucky to use a friend's HD800 for 2 weeks straight on my WA22 so I know how the combo sounds like.  I am just wondering about the T1.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the HD 800s unique bass decay makes them pair better with the WA22. 
  
 the WA22 is a fantastic amp, just compared to the OTLs, it doesn't have the same bass body or punch. it focuses more on the midrange and soundstage and air. its alot more open sounding vs the WA2. 
  
 the T1 was nice with the WA22 especially with rock music, it makes the T1's slightly recessed midrange really come out, its really magical to hear the T1 have such clarity and midrange richness with the WA22. but, yes, the bass does suffer a bit, its too light for my tastes, but i can see the T1/WA22 combo being great for many people depending on their tastes. do they want a huge soundstage and a magic midrange (wa22), or do they want a silky smooth fun sounding amp (wa2).
  
 the HD 800 works very well with both WA22 and WA2, and regardless of which one, i  think both amps need top tubes to get to where i want them to be. the WA2 with the wrong tubes will be too veiled and too smooth with the hd 800. hd 800s are one of those few headphones that really doesn't like to have too much coloration in the amp. it easily displays a sort of cloudy veil in the sound thats very noticeable. the WA22 is the same, and it needs good tubes otherwise it can be too lush sounding. GEC 6AS7G tubes and fancy NOS rectifiers work best with HD 800


----------



## koiloco

@DG, you are really bad influence!  
  
 I got a pair of TS 5998 coming and just won a Ken rad vt 231 6SN7 this afternoon.  I like the grey glass RCA you recommended but sometimes I find them a touch dark and too lush for my taste though the bottom end is nice and weighty.  I hope ken rad will be a touch brighter and give me a little gain in texture while keeping the bottom just as good.
  
 I am still watching out for 422a but it's quite a fight.  I am tempted to just grab a pair and stash one away.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

koiloco said:


> @DG, you are really bad influence!
> 
> I got a pair of TS 5998 coming and just won a Ken rad vt 231 6SN7 this afternoon.  I like the grey glass RCA you recommended but sometimes I find them a touch dark and too lush for my taste though the bottom end is nice and weighty.  I hope ken rad will be a touch brighter and give me a little gain in texture while keeping the bottom just as good.
> 
> I am still watching out for 422a but it's quite a fight.  I am tempted to just grab a pair and stash one away.


 
  
 the pair for 779 right now looks good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 i did end up buying a spare. so i don't have a pair, but 2 singles, a black plate and an older grey plate. the grey plates are especially nice but i think they kinda sound the same.


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> the pair for 779 right now looks good
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I've been staring at that pair for 2 weeks now and the price still stays the same.  Dang it!


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> the pair for 779 right now looks good
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 that's just too much money. There is no way it could sound good enough to be worth while. Its like the difference between a WA22 and a Stratus. I would prefer to get a new amp or headphone for the money. 
  
 799 dollars - come on man.


----------



## Blurpapa

kn19h7 said:


> From the website it seems they have only one model for balance headphones:
> *ＨＰＡ－ＰＲＯ　６ＢＸ７　店頭視聴できます　バランス型ヘッドフォン対応　完全バランスアンプ　デジタル入力のみです*
> ... and this model only accepts digital input, which means you won't be able to use your dac with it = =


 
  
 Thanks for your help kn19h7!
 It's very tempting. No worries as my DAC has 2 digital outs so the setup won't inconvenience my setup too much.
 I'd be able to switch amps from the remote control of my DAC.
Perhaps after a while, my stand alone DAC may not be required anymore


----------



## Blurpapa

dopaminer said:


> He has several models, including a balanced version with XLR jacks. I believe every amp he makes includes the same 24/192 DAC which is in mine.  It`s great, and has optical, coaxial and USB inputs.  Of course there are also RCA analogue inputs, if you want to use your own DAC. I sometimes use my TEAC DAC this way.  Also, the amps have speaker terminals, and my new Q-Acoustics 2020i stand mounters sound decent in my small Tokyo apartment.
> 
> EDIT:  I didn`t see kn19h7`s post above; I didn`t realize the balanced version is digital-in only and that is clearly what the above Japanese text says.


 
  
I've sent an email in English to Mr Ishii of Andix and hope that I am able to ask a few questions and request for a few pictures of the HPA Pro 6BX7 before committing to it. 
I don't even know the price at this stage.
  
I've also contacted my friend in Tokyo and if all goes well, he will swing by Andix to pick up the amp and come back with it to Singapore by end Jan 2014!!
Fingers crossed!
  
 Would you have any recommendations on the tubes to use? Or do you think I should stick to the stock tubes from Dr Ishii? Thanks again Dopaminer.


----------



## Saren

I got my HD800's today. I started off with Global Communications 76:14 to see just what had been raved about in a review I read. I can certainly see why, the layering is out of the world with these, the sounds appear and disappear almost ethereally. I then went onto Alice in Chains unplugged, the crowd gained a new level or surreal over any of my current phones. Most impressive was the separation of the different drum and bass work in the songs. I'm now listening to the Skyrim Soundtrack 2 CD's out of 4 down, the air fantastic on the HD800, the tracks from battle themes and such make me feel like i'm at the Cinema with the surround speakers, but at far higher fidelity.
  
 I'll be checking out the Chesky Binaurals that come with the Fiio X3 tomorrow and some rock recordings like Animals, In the Court of the Crimson King and maybe Opeth's Heritage.


----------



## magiccabbage

saren said:


> I got my HD800's today. I started off with Global Communications 76:14 to see just what had been raved about in a review I read. I can certainly see why, the layering is out of the world with these, the sounds appear and disappear almost ethereally. I then went onto Alice in Chains unplugged, the crowd gained a new level or surreal over any of my current phones. Most impressive was the separation of the different drum and bass work in the songs. I'm now listening to the Skyrim Soundtrack 2 CD's out of 4 down, the air fantastic on the HD800, the tracks from battle themes and such make me feel like i'm at the Cinema with the surround speakers, but at far higher fidelity.
> 
> I'll be checking out the Chesky Binaurals that come with the Fiio X3 tomorrow and some rock recordings like Animals, In the Court of the Crimson King and maybe Opeth's Heritage.


 





............. im still burning mine in, 57 hours. enjoy


----------



## longbowbbs

saren said:


> I got my HD800's today. I started off with Global Communications 76:14 to see just what had been raved about in a review I read. I can certainly see why, the layering is out of the world with these, the sounds appear and disappear almost ethereally. I then went onto Alice in Chains unplugged, the crowd gained a new level or surreal over any of my current phones. Most impressive was the separation of the different drum and bass work in the songs. I'm now listening to the Skyrim Soundtrack 2 CD's out of 4 down, the air fantastic on the HD800, the tracks from battle themes and such make me feel like i'm at the Cinema with the surround speakers, but at far higher fidelity.
> 
> I'll be checking out the Chesky Binaurals that come with the Fiio X3 tomorrow and some rock recordings like Animals, In the Court of the Crimson King and maybe Opeth's Heritage.


 
 Alice in Chains Unplugged is awesome with the HD800's. Nice choice!


----------



## Sorrodje

It's finally easy to be impressed by HD800 the first time but It's a bit harder to live with it week after week . It definitely needs a well choosen upstream gear . Not necessrarily expensive gear but well choosen.  I purchased a HEGEL HD10 DAC a month ago. Very good DAC, neutral , accurate , not too analytical but .. HD800 hates this dac and  Music enjoyement became a nightmare .  I've a loaned Rega DAC right now and pleasure is back. Subtle differences indeed but these subtle differences can transform dream into nightmare with HD800.
  
  
 The HD800 is really a very special thing.  OK I admit I beat a dead horse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but now I can talk about my own experience.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the rega dac is a warm and musical sounding dac, maybe not as resolving as a more neutral and accurate dac, but it is pretty good


----------



## longbowbbs

dubstep girl said:


> the rega dac is a warm and musical sounding dac, maybe not as resolving as a more neutral and accurate dac, but it is pretty good


 
 I agree. I like it's sound. I spent many hours with it and my Cary. Too bad you need other parts for 24/192 and it is not DSD capable.


----------



## Sorrodje

Fortunately, I exchanged my Hegel against the Rega with my friend this afternoon.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   
  
 Happy end !


----------



## LugBug1

sorrodje said:


> Fortunately, I exchanged my Hegel against the Rega with my friend this afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Good call! 
  
 I'd love to try a Rega. My favorite Dac with the Senn's is my old Black Box (1989) with TDA1541A chip. Musical and organic. Refined! Not analyltical or as focused as the new guys... But do we really want the HD800's to sound any sharper?


----------



## AgentXXL

longbowbbs said:


> saren said:
> 
> 
> > I got my HD800's today. I started off with Global Communications 76:14 to see just what had been raved about in a review I read. I can certainly see why, the layering is out of the world with these, the sounds appear and disappear almost ethereally. I then went onto Alice in Chains unplugged, the crowd gained a new level or surreal over any of my current phones. Most impressive was the separation of the different drum and bass work in the songs. I'm now listening to the Skyrim Soundtrack 2 CD's out of 4 down, the air fantastic on the HD800, the tracks from battle themes and such make me feel like i'm at the Cinema with the surround speakers, but at far higher fidelity.
> ...




A big +2! Awesome album on the HD800s...

Dale


----------



## Fearless1

I love my Rega, I got accustomed to the sound and enjoy it more then my Benchmark or my Bifrost Uber, it is very warm and musical.


----------



## MickeyVee

Posted a DAC question on the Schiit Vali thread.  Actually, the Rega is on my list of DAC's along with the new Arcam irDAC and Bifrost uber.  Since I already had the Bifrost, I'm leaning towards the Rega or Arcam.
  
 On another note, just got my Schiit Vali and am breaking it in with the WA7 DAC as the source and HD800.  It sounds really, really nice. Fun, musical and compelling are descriptors come to mind.  The Vali may just be _the_ entry level amp (along with a decent DAC) for the HD800.  Really enjoying it. So.. you don't need a mulit $K setup to enjoy the HD800.  
  
 Quote:


fearless1 said:


> I love my Rega, I got accustomed to the sound and enjoy it more then my Benchmark or my Bifrost Uber, it is very warm and musical.


----------



## Fearless1

@MickeyVee The Rega has a smooth warm sound as compared to my Benchmark, the Benchmark DAC2 is much more detailed and analytical though.  Rega>Fosgate Signature>HD800 is just incredible to my ears. I tried to upgrade with the Benchmark, but I really think the Rega is just more the sound signature I seek with the HD800.


----------



## brunk

The Yulong D18 is very similar to the Rega, but I think it's a little better. Plus, you get different sound from the XLR or RCA outs, with XLR being the warmer output.


----------



## macbob713

mickeyvee said:


> [/quote
> That's great news, especially for people trying to find their way to great sound with their purchase of these premium headphones. Look forward to hearing more about your expirence.


----------



## Sorrodje

brunk said:


> The Yulong D18 is very similar to the Rega, but I think it's a little better. Plus, you get different sound from the XLR or RCA outs, with XLR being the warmer output.


 
  
  
 Thanks for the advice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . I'll put the Yulong D18 on my list of prospective upgrades .
  
 @MickeyVee & macbob713 : I definitely agree . We can find now a used HD800 as a decent price ( about 600/700€ ) and we can find used gear to associate with and then build a fantastic Combo at a relatively low price.   I bought my HD800 600€ , my previous dacmagic at 150€ , and my MG head at 120€ . Tubes i use now costed me 130 € . 1000€ for audio bliss. 
  
  
 Indeed that's not the last word for HD800 but I really think I could build a good ( may be far from perfect but at least very enjoyable)  HD800 system with used can & gear with a 1000€  budget. Vintage receivers fans could even find cheaper option I guess. 
  
 That said, I would not like to be banned from Hi-end forum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so I shoud precise that I'm convinced that more Hi End Gear can really bring something more to the table with this HD800 . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## songmic

Has any HD800 owner here tried out Stefan AudioArt's Ultra mod for HD800? According to James (owner of SAA), the Ultra mod combined with hardwiring his Endorphin cable makes the best upgrade for HD800. Of course that's him talking, but I really couldn't find anyone who has actually tried it out. Any feedback will be much appreciated.


----------



## paradoxper

songmic said:


> Has any HD800 owner here tried out Stefan AudioArt's Ultra mod for HD800? According to James (owner of SAA), the Ultra mod combined with hardwiring his Endorphin cable makes the best upgrade for HD800. Of course that's him talking, but I really couldn't find anyone who has actually tried it out. Any feedback will be much appreciated.


 
 Talk to preproman or fejnomit. There's also the Zeus from Aphrodite which is pretty similar to the Ultra mod.


----------



## Thracian

Hey guys! 
Recently sold my LCD2 to move away from the warm sound which I sadly have grew tired from. 

So, I'm thinking of picking a HD800 up in the neat future. Do y'all think it'll be picky with my Audio-GD 10.32? Seems like the HD800 is such a picky headphone. I only want to have one headphone so if i hope the HD800 will stay with me for a good while.

Also, what's the thoughts on the HD700 these days??


----------



## rawrster

sorrodje said:


> It's finally easy to be impressed by HD800 the first time but It's a bit harder to live with it week after week . It definitely needs a well choosen upstream gear . Not necessrarily expensive gear but well choosen.  I purchased a HEGEL HD10 DAC a month ago. Very good DAC, neutral , accurate , not too analytical but .. HD800 hates this dac and  Music enjoyement became a nightmare .  I've a loaned Rega DAC right now and pleasure is back. Subtle differences indeed but these subtle differences can transform dream into nightmare with HD800.
> 
> 
> The HD800 is really a very special thing.  OK I admit I beat a dead horse
> ...


 
  
 I had a similar feeling when I got my Buffalo III. Of course I eventually replaced the HD800 with Stax but nonetheless the HD800 is a picky little thing. If not for the Buffalo there's a chance I might have sold the HD800 instead of the HE6 when I had both.


----------



## preproman

songmic said:


> Has any HD800 owner here tried out Stefan AudioArt's Ultra mod for HD800? According to James (owner of SAA), the Ultra mod combined with hardwiring his Endorphin cable makes the best upgrade for HD800. Of course that's him talking, but I really couldn't find anyone who has actually tried it out. Any feedback will be much appreciated.


 
  
 Yeah contact fejnomit I think he got the full Ultra mod done.  I only got the Hardwiring done.  Now contact snapple10 she has my pair now.  Not sure if she had a stock pair before these to compare to.  That was my second pair.  And yes there was a clear difference between the hardwired Endorphon cable pair and each stock pair I had.


----------



## Greed

I was thinking about that mod as well. Few things keep me from doing so. Has SAA ever released the type of wire they use in their cables? It is hard to even read through all the hyperbole and vagueness on their website...


----------



## songmic

greed said:


> I was thinking about that mod as well. Few things keep me from doing so. Has SAA ever released the type of wire they use in their cables? It is hard to even read through all the hyperbole and vagueness on their website...


 
  
 To quote James,
  
"We use a proprietary Ultra-pure copper formulated to yield a rich, musical sonic presentation. It is the best in the industry - guaranteed."


----------



## preproman

I tell you what.  I felt like I got the wool pulled over my eyes when I felt how thick and fully the sleeve was then how thin the cable was inside. Not sure if the thinness of a cable makes a difference or not, but that cable sure is thin.  Yes what made me feel better about it was the SQ.


----------



## LugBug1

thracian said:


> Hey guys!
> Recently sold my LCD2 to move away from the warm sound which I sadly have grew tired from.
> 
> So, I'm thinking of picking a HD800 up in the neat future. Do y'all think it'll be picky with my Audio-GD 10.32? Seems like the HD800 is such a picky headphone. I only want to have one headphone so if i hope the HD800 will stay with me for a good while.
> ...


 
 IME the HD800 aren't really picky with amps at all. What they are is transparent. This means that if you have a bad sounding amp then the Senn's will sound bad. But how many bad sounding amps are there these days? Not many. Source is more important ime once you have a decent enough amp. Your Audio GD amp will be fine and I guarantee it will wipe the floor (never understood that saying..) compared to your LCD2. 
  
 Having said that, the better the amp the better the HD800 will sound. They scale through the roof - into the sky and all the way to outer space! Yes outer space! But just be wary of black holes, coz if you get snagged in one of em buggars you could end up spending and spending without any real improvement..


----------



## Greed

songmic said:


> To quote James,
> 
> "We use a proprietary Ultra-pure copper formulated to yield a rich, musical sonic presentation. It is the best in the industry - guaranteed."


 
  
 Which could mean OFC, OFHC, OCC, UP-OCC, or even ETP. All of them are small percentage apart (95%-99.99-%) which could mean "ultra-pure" depending on the individual's definition. They have a serious lack of technical info about their wire which makes me think they don't want people to know.


----------



## preproman

greed said:


> Which could mean OFC, OFHC, OCC, UP-OCC, or even ETP. All of them are small percentage apart (95%-99.99-%) which could mean "ultra-pure" depending on the individual's definition. They have a serious lack of technical info about their wire which makes me think they don't want people to know.


 
  
 E,
  
 James is a great guy to talk to.  I'm sure he would tell you all the specifics if you call him.  Real easy guy to get along with and very professional.


----------



## Greed

preproman said:


> E,
> 
> James is a great guy to talk to.  I'm sure he would tell you all the specifics if you call him.  Real easy guy to get along with and very professional.


 
  
 Cool, maybe I'll give him a holler and see if I can get the skinny.


----------



## kiwikaki

Today I tried an old Luxman LV-112 with the HD800 and the mdac AudioLab: very detailed, powerful sound and impact, nice air between the instruments. Great for an old amp. (output impedance 80 ohms).


----------



## Sorrodje

lugbug1 said:


> IME the HD800 aren't really picky with amps at all. What they are is transparent. This means that if you have a bad sounding amp then the Senn's will sound bad. But how many bad sounding amps are there these days? Not many. Source is more important ime once you have a decent enough amp. Your Audio GD amp will be fine and I guarantee it will wipe the floor (never understood that saying..) compared to your LCD2.
> 
> Having said that, the better the amp the better the HD800 will sound. They scale through the roof - into the sky and all the way to outer space! Yes outer space! But just be wary of black holes, coz if you get snagged in one of em buggars you could end up spending and spending without any real improvement..


 
  
  
 I can't agree more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 From my (little) experience, a source can sound completely wrong with the HD800 although I never met unlistenable amps.  With inappropriate source, we always turn volume down and need to choose carefully tracks in order to avoid pain. In this case HD800 sounds sterile or lifeless at best ( it's what I had with my HEGEL HD10)  and mostly dry and harsh.  With a "wrong" amp,  HD800 sounds dull and bland with a serious lack of PRAT. It tends to loose bass too.  Not very enjoyable but not painful. That's how I try to analyse symptoms . 
  
 When there's no symptomes I can quietly enjoy my Music and forget the gear . Then I know the gear+HD800 suits well my tastes


----------



## Hun7er

lugbug1 said:


> IME the HD800 aren't really picky with amps at all. What they are is transparent. This means that if you have a bad sounding amp then the Senn's will sound bad. But how many bad sounding amps are there these days? Not many. Source is more important ime once you have a decent enough amp. Your Audio GD amp will be fine and I guarantee it will wipe the floor (never understood that saying..) compared to your LCD2.
> 
> Having said that, the better the amp the better the HD800 will sound. They scale through the roof - into the sky and all the way to outer space! Yes outer space! But just be wary of black holes, coz if you get snagged in one of em buggars you could end up spending and spending without any real improvement..


 
 Thanks you. It becomes painful to read all the time that the HD800 is picky from amp. You give him s**t it makes you s**t.


----------



## BournePerfect

It is picky with amps-there's a lot of bad amps out there. So I think Lug is right-the HD800 is so transparent it can easily reveal crappy amp/sources. Henceicky.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Thracian

Thanks for the reply guys!
  
 Guess i'll stick to my current amp and get the HD800 in due time. Now to find a warm-ish source + amp!
 Demoed the HD800 + ALO Studio 6 coming from a marantz CD transport(forgot the model), didn't want to leave the shop


----------



## froger

I heard that at JEM too. Glorious sound, but not natural /organic enough to my liking. I thought the Marantz could be limiting factor here. Anyway, the asking price of $7000+ sgd in that shop is just way too high, given the recent reduction in price for the Studio 6.


----------



## holeout

ALO Studio Six > HD800 is one of the most natural and organic pairing I heard. This combination is most revealing and I do concur that the front end seems to be a limiting factor. With an appropriate front end, cables and power tweaks, its magic. I am using the Lumin network player and with good software the music sounded so "analog" with the setup.


----------



## Takeanidea

thracian said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> Recently sold my LCD2 to move away from the warm sound which I sadly have grew tired from.
> 
> ...



 


Can you demo it with your amp?
I moved from the LCD2 to the HD800 for exactly what you've said. I've never looked back


----------



## MickeyVee

Just posted some comments on the Schiit Vali and and Rega DAC for those that might be interested.  The Vali, with the right DAC, may be a great entry into really enjoying the HD800 without spending too much money.
 The HD800 really does show what your source and amp can do.  A crazy combo but or me but it works.  Let me know what you think.
  
post #2051


----------



## Sorrodje

mickeyvee said:


> Let me know what you think.
> 
> post #2051


 
  
 Great read. I'm not so surprised by your review.


----------



## DarknightDK

mickeyvee said:


> The Vali, with the right DAC, may be a great entry into really enjoying the HD800 without spending too much money.
> 
> The HD800 really does show what your source and amp can do.  A crazy combo but or me but it works.


 
  
 Agreed.
  
 The new Schiit Vali pairs extremely well _especially _with the HD800 and a good source. I spent the last couple of days listening to the HD800 with the Master 7 and Vali and was surprised how good the sound was. So good that I did not miss my WA22 (which also pairs very well with the HD800 for that matter).
  
 For those with the HD800 and on a budget, I say get the Vali and with the $$$ saved, invest that into a top-class DAC. You will not be disappointed.


----------



## Dopaminer

darknightdk said:


> For those with the HD800 and on a budget, I say get the Vali and with the $$$ saved, invest that into a top-class DAC. You will not be disappointed.


 
  
 Or, a good DAC and some top-class source files.  The HD800 forced me to (happily) discard about 10 years of mp3 music files.  Sign up with Highresaudio.com, Hdtracks, Bluecoast, Linnrecords, e-onkyo, etc. Download their free samples, use their discount codes, download free so-called `needle drop` 24-bit rips from quality vinyl for music you already own, share music with your friends.  I`ve built a new library of high-resolution music and it`s made the HD800s, my IEMs and my speakers huge sources of pleasure.  
  
 To appreciate the HD800, you have to move on from over-compressed, lossy files.  The most expensive amps and dacs in the world won`t overcome the issue.


----------



## AgentXXL

dopaminer said:


> darknightdk said:
> 
> 
> > For those with the HD800 and on a budget, I say get the Vali and with the $$$ saved, invest that into a top-class DAC. You will not be disappointed.
> ...


 
  
 Another +1 - I've done similar. I've been slowly but surely replacing/rebuilding my music library with hi-res counterparts. I don't have what most would consider a stellar DAC and amp, but with my HD800s, the Cypher Labs Algorhythm Solo -dB and the RSA Intruder (all connected balanced), my new library of hi-res music is thoroughly enjoyable. Alas it's only a USB DAC, but that's OK - I use my MacBook Pro as my primary playback device, so USB is fine, especially since the CLAS -dB supports 192KHz/24bit  playback.
  
 I've had a few minor letdowns from some of the hi-res audio dealers, with rips that are less than stellar. They might be encoded with FLAC or ALAC, but if the original source was crap and the tech doing the rip wasn't well versed in good methodology, it's pretty evident. Heck, I have some MP3 rips (320K) that sound better than some of my so-called hi-res audio.
  
 That said, I won't go back to ripping with a MP3 encoder. FLAC/ALAC/DSD are definitely my choice for the future.
  
 Dale


----------



## catspaw

Well I got the asgard already so i guess ill skip the Vali, but Im wondering on a tube amp (budget one) and DAC for them .
 Just 16 days more wait .


----------



## MIKELAP

catspaw said:


> Well I got the asgard already so i guess ill skip the Vali, but Im wondering on a tube amp (budget one) and DAC for them .
> Just 16 days more wait .


 
 I use a Littledot mk3 and for about $250.00 and less if you buy it with no tubes because you can buy tubes for this amp for $5.00 each sometimes less if you want and if you like tube rolling  theres tons of 7 pin tubes that are plug and play and adaptors that can be made to use octals ,and 9 pin tubes i use the Littledot with my Senns hd800 and it sounds very good to me and i use my Burson Conductor's Dac .Check out the LITTLEDOT DOT TUBE ROLLING GUIDE thread.


----------



## catspaw

mikelap said:


> I use a Littledot mk3 and for about $250.00 and less if you buy it with no tubes because you can buy tubes for this amp for $5.00 each sometimes less if you want and if you like tube rolling  theres tons of 7 pin tubes that are plug and play and adaptors that can be made to use octals ,and 9 pin tubes i use the Littledot with my Senns hd800 and it sounds very good to me and i use my Burson Conductor's Dac .Check out the LITTLEDOT DOT TUBE ROLLING GUIDE thread.


 
 The problem is where to get it in Poland .


----------



## MIKELAP

catspaw said:


> The problem is where to get it in Poland .


 
 Have to order Littledot  from China, on EBAY from David Zhezhe or authorized dealer to get warranty.


----------



## catspaw

That would be rather risky for me (not only id have to factor in customs, travel damage to the amp and the random "never arrived", but most importantly no chance to test it before buying it).
 Hmm, I think ill postpone the tube amp a bit... this is a hobby that is just taking off in Poland so there is a chance I will see an increase in offer from audio stores in the future.


----------



## DarKen23

dopaminer said:


> darknightdk said:
> 
> 
> > For those with the HD800 and on a budget, I say get the Vali and with the $$$ saved, invest that into a top-class DAC. You will not be disappointed.
> ...


 
 Well obviously.


----------



## hekeli

Uh yeah let's limit our music taste according to the container format, ridiculous. I'm fine with my redbook FLAC/320 and "over-compressed" music.
  
 Anything more recent than Napster's 128kbit mp3s is fine and hires is just a bonus, but you don't need that to "appreciate" HD800.


----------



## Dopaminer

hekeli said:


> Uh yeah let's limit our music taste according to the container format, ridiculous. I'm fine with my redbook FLAC/320 and "over-compressed" music.
> 
> Anything more recent than Napster's 128kbit mp3s is fine and hires is just a bonus, but you don't need that to "appreciate" HD800.


 
 I guess your quote marks are referring to my post.  Your scorn seems odd. Perhaps you missed the context of my comment : I was adding my opinion to the discussion above about expensive DACs and amplifiers, and referring specifically to the fact that the revealing nature of higher-end gear makes lossy rips and poor mastering more blatant than lower-end gear.  So using high-end gear with low-rez music files is a waste of time and money. 
  
 In my opinion, which is based on my experience, which is what this is, a forum for opinions and experiences.  And I didn`t say anything about musical tastes.  
  
 What exactly is `ridiculous`? 
  
 Maybe you should read more carefully.


----------



## hekeli

dopaminer said:


> So using high-end gear with low-rez music files is a waste of time and money.


 

 I'm reading what I read and everyone has their opinion. End of that.


----------



## James-uk

Last night I downloaded the Eagles , the studio albums , from I tunes. They are 'mastered for I tunes' versions and I did some A/B comparisons with the 24/96 versions I have . Modern day 256 AAC is amazing that's all I can say. For one thing the dynamic range showing in pure music showed that the mastered for I tunes versions had about 2 -4 Db better range than the high res versions and to my ears the presentation was slightly better. I think It just shows how important the mastering is and compression done right can sound equal to high res. (to my ears, IMO Etc....)


----------



## Takeanidea

So the message is don't discard your mp3s just yet


----------



## AgentXXL

takeanidea said:


> So the message is don't discard your mp3s just yet




Not exactly... if your ears don't hear a difference (or problem) when listening to MP3s on your gear, then by all means keep them and enjoy listening to them. But for those of us that do hear a difference, learn proper ripping and encoding methodology for your preferred format(s), and have fun re-discovering your music!

Dale


----------



## Takeanidea

I am entirely in agreement with the above statement. 46 yr old ears aren't as golden as they used to be.


----------



## Dexon

Does anyone here find HD800 to be to polite? Something missing in attack and punch. I don't get this. They are obviously very dynamic, I would say more than K702 but when it comes to orchestral climaxes e.g. they just don't do it right IMHO. Thats also very noticeable in every record with decently captured Steinway. It sounds 'smaller' on HD800 compared to K702 or even HD600. Its easier to follow music's rhythmical structure on K702 than on HD800.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I really love the Senns and can't get enough of that extremely resolving sound but I found my self listening more and more to chamber music with them because of these 'cons'. I highly doubt it, but could it be my amp? I've tried 4 so far and currently running them with HA-160 as I like it best among these.


----------



## James-uk

I know exactly what you mean and I have always thought of it as a positive, it's almost the hd800 showing off its level of control and that amazing soundstage . If you look at the objective data on the 800s it's clear that they deliver the sound exactly as should be so maybe it's the recording that lacks the attack and other phones 'add' attack?


----------



## MickeyVee

What is your source and amplification? I'm finding that the source/DAC can make a huge difference. Listening to Patricia Barber right now and and it's like I'm sitting at the front table of a jazz club. It does not sound small at all. Fabulous attack, polite and aggressive when it needs to be.  Sending shivers up and down my spine.
 If the recording/source/amplification is good, the HD800 will sing!  Any weakness in the chain will be revealed. 
  
  
 Quote:


james-uk said:


> I know exactly what you mean and I have always thought of it as a positive, it's almost the hd800 showing off its level of control and that amazing soundstage . If you look at the objective data on the 800s it's clear that they deliver the sound exactly as should be so maybe it's the recording that lacks the attack and other phones 'add' attack?


----------



## James-uk

I hear that to Mickey, but I think it had more to do with the recording/ mastering. That's the beautiful thing about the 800s, they are so transparent they can sound distant and have weak attack with one recording and they can sound warm , intimate and have aggressive attack with another. They don't have a 'sound signature' . They just allow the 1 and 0s to pass through .


----------



## James-uk

Via a transparent dac of course.....


----------



## magiccabbage

dexon said:


> Does anyone here find HD800 to be to polite? Something missing in attack and punch. I don't get this. They are obviously very dynamic, I would say more than K702 but when it comes to orchestral climaxes e.g. they just don't do it right IMHO. Thats also very noticeable in every record with decently captured Steinway. It sounds 'smaller' on HD800 compared to K702 or even HD600. Its easier to follow music's rhythmical structure on K702 than on HD800.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What other amps have you tried? The HD800 as people have said before has a very high ceiling. Maybe try it out with a TOTL amp. I am very happy with WA2/HD800 but with the right tubes. 
  
 People talk about GSXMK2 and Luxman p1-u for solid state and WA5/22 and the DNA stratus for tube TOTL amps. 
  
 I have not heard the HA-160 but maybe the HD800 deserves a little more.


----------



## James-uk

+1 on that I found the burson a little aggressive. Plus it had a noisy floor! I can't deal with hiss. I've reached my end game rig with mac>iTunes >pure music>HDVD800> balanced cable>HD800/HD650. I'm still going to buy a crack because I want to build an amp plus I've never heard a tube amp!


----------



## MickeyVee

Agreed to a point. If you feed a good amp with the DragonFly versus a Rega DAC (I have both), the bits sound much better with the Rega. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That lack of sound signature is apparent with the rest of the chain. I thin we're saying the same thing.  Start out with a good recording, you will be rewarded.  Up the ante on the chain and you will reap greater rewards.
  
 Quote:


james-uk said:


> I hear that to Mickey, but I think it had more to do with the recording/ mastering. That's the beautiful thing about the 800s, they are so transparent they can sound distant and have weak attack with one recording and they can sound warm , intimate and have aggressive attack with another. They don't have a 'sound signature' . They just allow the 1 and 0s to pass through .


----------



## magiccabbage

james-uk said:


> +1 on that I found the burson a little aggressive. Plus it had a noisy floor! I can't deal with hiss. I've reached my end game rig with mac>iTunes >pure music>HDVD800> balanced cable>HD800/HD650. I'm still going to buy a crack because I want to build an amp plus I've never heard a tube amp!


 
 I plan on building a crack next year as well. I also heard HDVD800 with the HD800. I liked it, sounded very good. I will have 3 OTL's by next year and then it will be on to the DNA stratus i think.


----------



## James-uk

I asked the Mrs for the crack for Xmas and she laughed at me! Guess she doesn't want another reason for me to come to my man cave . Does any one else get the impression that everyone around them doesn't get the audio hobby at all?!


----------



## magiccabbage

james-uk said:


> I asked the Mrs for the crack for Xmas and she laughed at me! Guess she doesn't want another reason for me to come to my man cave . Does any one else get the impression that everyone around them doesn't get the audio hobby at all?!


 
 yea, totally. My friends think im sick but i also have guitar gear lust which i have spent even more money on. If i sold my acoustic i could nearly afford a WA5, sometimes i tempted.


----------



## James-uk

The most annoying part of it all is when you get a friend round and you get them to listen to the HD800s and they say 'yeah , sounds good that, really clear....... ' I'm like 'What they sound bloody amazing show some appreciation ! '


----------



## RUMAY408

james-uk said:


> The most annoying part of it all is when you get a friend round and you get them to listen to the HD800s and they say 'yeah , sounds good that, really clear....... ' I'm like 'What they sound bloody amazing show some appreciation ! '


 
 You know you are on Head-Fi when this comes up ^ ^ ^ there is a busy thread devoted to this topic.  The HD800 is like a fine wine.
  
 If Ripple is what you are used to, and what you expect, then fine wines don't taste so fine.


----------



## James-uk

Which thread? Sound like a good read.


----------



## YoengJyh

magiccabbage said:


> I plan on building a crack next year as well. I also heard HDVD800 with the HD800. I liked it, sounded very good. I will have 3 OTL's by next year and then it will be on to the DNA stratus i think.


 
  
 Take a look on EarMax Pro Silver Edition OTL amp. Not bad.


----------



## bearFNF

rumay408 said:


> You know you are on Head-Fi when this comes up ^ ^ ^ there is a busy thread devoted to this topic.  The HD800 is like a fine wine.
> 
> If Ripple is what you are used to, and what you expect, then fine wines don't taste so fine.


 
  


james-uk said:


> Which thread? Sound like a good read.


 
  
 This one perhaps??
  ​


----------



## Sorrodje

dexon said:


> Does anyone here find HD800 to be to polite? Something missing in attack and punch. I don't get this. They are obviously very dynamic, I would say more than K702 but when it comes to orchestral climaxes e.g. they just don't do it right IMHO. Thats also very noticeable in every record with decently captured Steinway. It sounds 'smaller' on HD800 compared to K702 or even HD600. Its easier to follow music's rhythmical structure on K702 than on HD800.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have the complete opposite feeling.
  
 My HD800 is the most impactful and bodied Headphone I've never heard to enjoy Orchestral work ( Especially for classical Iistening I owned a K501 before my HD800 .. and I really LOVED my K501)  . For some Music I think HD800 hits a bit too harder but for classical, HD800 does the job so perfectly well to my hears.   Powerful pieces as Berlioz orchestral pieces are perfectly rendered.  Bass are so deep , detailed & crystal Clear . I can hear Cellos , Doublebasses , Bassons , timbales as I was in a real concert hall.


----------



## thegrobe

Quick question folks....without searching too deep into thread trying to find my answer.

Can the stock hd800 cable be re-terminated to 4 pin XLR? (Is the stock cable 4 individual wires all the way to the plug)

Thanks in advance


----------



## Jd007

thegrobe said:


> Quick question folks....without searching too deep into thread trying to find my answer.
> 
> Can the stock hd800 cable be re-terminated to 4 pin XLR? (Is the stock cable 4 individual wires all the way to the plug)
> 
> Thanks in advance


 
 yes, you get two connectors going into each earcup so you have full 4-pin connection


----------



## brunk

thegrobe said:


> Quick question folks....without searching too deep into thread trying to find my answer.
> 
> Can the stock hd800 cable be re-terminated to 4 pin XLR? (Is the stock cable 4 individual wires all the way to the plug)
> 
> Thanks in advance


 
 Yes. I have done this very thing with my stock cable.


----------



## thegrobe

jd007 said:


> yes, you get two connectors going into each earcup so you have full 4-pin connection







brunk said:


> Yes. I have done this very thing with my stock cable.




Thanks, thinking of picking up a pair of these to see how they stack up vs LCD-3 on my Decware rig. With any luck, I should be getting LCD-X demos for an old-fashioned shootout. One winner stays!


----------



## negura

thegrobe said:


> Thanks, thinking of picking up a pair of these to see how they stack up vs LCD-3 on my Decware rig. With any luck, I should be getting LCD-X demos for an old-fashioned shootout. One winner stays!


 
  
 What - Are you saying Santa won't bring you a nice aftermarket balanced cable? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I was really glad when I got rid of the stock cable (mainly for SQ reasons, but also it's quite flimsy)


----------



## skeptic

Nice work brunk! Did you basically snip the cable a few inches from the end, leaving the stock trs plug in place, and then attached m and f neutrik 4 pins to the bare ends? I may have to copy your good idea if I can work up the courage. 

I'm perfectly comfortable building diy kits (or reterminating a busted cable), but snipping a functional cable makes me a bit squeamish.


----------



## brunk

skeptic said:


> Nice work brunk! Did you basically snip the cable a few inches from the end, leaving the stock trs plug in place, and then attached m and f neutrik 4 pins to the bare ends? I may have to copy your good idea if I can work up the courage.
> 
> I'm perfectly comfortable building diy kits (or reterminating a busted cable), but snipping a functional cable makes me a bit squeamish.


 
 Thanks! Yep, that's exactly what i did. Just put your DMM on the continuity test to determine which pair goes where, and be sure to mark the TRS side conductors when you cut so you don't mix them up. I also added a small piece of red heatshrink on the right side connector for ease of identification, the black lettering can be hard to see in low light.
  
 Lol in regards to squeamish, I cut the TH-900 cable and did the same thing, now THAT one had me nervous! No one had done it before, so it was a mystery at the time.


----------



## thegrobe

negura said:


> What - Are you saying Santa won't bring you a nice aftermarket balanced cable? :bigsmile_face:  I was really glad when I got rid of the stock cable (mainly for SQ reasons, but also it's quite flimsy)




Well, of course that's a possibility...

But I want to hear them off the XLR outs on the Taboo to compare the phones fairly, hence a "quickie" retermination. If they stay, a nice aftermarket cable will be on the short list.


----------



## songmic

thegrobe said:


> Well, of course that's a possibility...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I believe there is no difference between 1/4" and XLR outputs on the Taboo, since the Taboo is a single-ended amp and its XLR output is merely a single-ended output wired as XLR to accommodate XLR headphone cables; hence not truly balanced in the sense of the word.


----------



## thegrobe

songmic said:


> I believe there is no difference between 1/4" and XLR outputs on the Taboo, since the Taboo is a single-ended amp and its XLR output is merely a single-ended output wired as XLR to accommodate XLR headphone cables; hence not truly balanced in the sense of the word.




The Taboo mk 3 I'm talking about here, if that matters. 

While the XLR out on the Taboo is a SE out, There's absolutely a SQ difference vs. the 1/4 out, as the 1/4 out requires "lucid mode" (a sort of crossfeed) to be activated. The XLR will run without that on. The circuits are tweaked in different ways, not fully understood by me. Lol

Anyways, should I be getting a pair of these...?


----------



## DarKen23

thegrobe said:


> songmic said:
> 
> 
> > I believe there is no difference between 1/4" and XLR outputs on the Taboo, since the Taboo is a single-ended amp and its XLR output is merely a single-ended output wired as XLR to accommodate XLR headphone cables; hence not truly balanced in the sense of the word.
> ...


 
 Yes you should. I recall advising you to do so a few months back


----------



## DarKen23

thegrobe said:


> songmic said:
> 
> 
> > I believe there is no difference between 1/4" and XLR outputs on the Taboo, since the Taboo is a single-ended amp and its XLR output is merely a single-ended output wired as XLR to accommodate XLR headphone cables; hence not truly balanced in the sense of the word.
> ...


----------



## thegrobe

darken23 said:


> Yes you should. I recall advising you to do so a few months back




Haha...Yes, my friend. You planted the seed quite some time ago! It has been like a pebble in my shoe...bugging me...nagging at me.... to do something about it...LOL.

Also, the LCD-3 is great on the CSP3/Taboo3 combo, but there's also plenty of opinions that the HD 800 is a "revelation" on that setup..scales even better. I owe it to myself to give it a go.


----------



## negura

songmic said:


> I believe there is no difference between 1/4" and XLR outputs on the Taboo, since the Taboo is a single-ended amp and its XLR output is merely a single-ended output wired as XLR to accommodate XLR headphone cables; hence not truly balanced in the sense of the word.



 

Being a speaker amp it has natively got 2 wires/channel whereas with single ended the - goes to a single point. Single-ended mode however is an work-around, and that is also why the crosfeed Old Lucid mode needs to be used to sound properly.

So it is actually  the cleanest path and a must have imo to use balanced output for the best SQ.


----------



## thegrobe

^ you said it better than me....

That said, I run the LCD off the speaker taps as well. I believe the only difference is a resistor in the XLR out. I'll try the HD800 of those as well, naturally. For the sake of trying all possibilities.


----------



## daniel0407

Hi all,
  
 A question here: has anybody been able to enjoy The Beatles's white album with the HD800?
  
 In my setup the sound is horrible, small, compressed, etc... is it be normal for this album?
  
 Best Regards,
  
 Daniel


----------



## kvtaco17

Let me dig it out and give it a listen. I'll let you know how it is.


----------



## kvtaco17

Nope, sounds good here... maybe a little too panned to the extreme left and right... but not little, compressed or congested... This was with the AudioGD 11.32, Little Dot MK1+, Lyr and o2... all sounded good. I used the AudoGD for a dac... though I do have a ODAC on had too.


----------



## LugBug1

daniel0407 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> A question here: has anybody been able to enjoy The Beatles's white album with the HD800?
> 
> ...


 
 There wasn't much crosstalk with stereo in those days. It was all about panning everything as far left or right. If you have the most recent remastering its sounds great to me, but using a headphone such as the HD800's it will no doubt sound its age. But would you want the Beatles any other way?


----------



## brunk

lugbug1 said:


> There wasn't much crosstalk with stereo in those days. It was all about panning everything as far left or right. If you have the most recent remastering its sounds great to me, but using a headphone such as the HD800's it will no doubt sound its age. But would you want the Beatles any other way?


 
 Beatles in Mono on my horns is my fav personally  The USB remaster set is pretty darn good though.


----------



## Maxvla

Yes it will not sound to great on any headphone due to the procedures they used. Stereo was new and the best way to show it was different was to push the left and right as far as possible. They overdid it _slightly_ to where it didn't sound natural. 

Same thing happened with high definition TV recently. People wanted more and more advanced specs to 'consume' so they made higher refreshing screens that ended up making movement look too smooth, too fluid, and too fast, as if the audio was lagging behind, and people moved unnaturally quickly. I always disable that crap on TVs of my family members and they all immediately appreciate going back to standard.


----------



## MickeyVee

Upgraditis time again.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ..
  
 Going to audition the Naim DAC-V1 tomorrow with the HD800 and my MacBook Air.  I'm currently running the Woo WA7 but want more out of my system.  Ran a Rega DAC with the WA7 and it did improve the overall sound but left me wanting more. I think the WA7 is holding me back. Really want to get to an endgame.  If the Naim is good as an all in one box, long enough to last me until I can fund a WA2 or Raptor, I'll probably pull the trigger. Did have a previous quick listen but going for a serious audition tomorrow.


----------



## LugBug1

mickeyvee said:


> Upgraditis time again..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The Rega didn't last long! Maybe it would go better with a SS amp perhaps? As it is a more forgiving dac. 
  
 Good luck with the Naim though, I'd love to own one. Keep us informed.


----------



## Sanlitun

daniel0407 said:


> It could be of course that after a few days/weeks my impression will change, that is why I am asking: is it a real fact that the HD800 has all those characteristics (overanalytical, lacks of musicality, over sibilant, lack of bass), or it depends on the setup?


 
  
 I've had my HD800's for three months now and I am only now beginning to get them "managed" to the point that I am really enjoying them. My initial impressions of these phones were pretty negative I suppose, but I am seeing the light now.
  
 In my case so far I have changed out my interconnects to a set that seem to favor midrange more and adjusted the gain settings on my amp. And after the first few days I decided to just hook them up to an old CD player and run them continuously on loop for two weeks. I understand what everyone say about break in, but it did seem to smooth the sound out somewhat.
  
 Bass is there with some good slam on the tracks that have it. It's a disciplined bass though, with no bloom or exaggeration. A couple of old tracks I use to test these phones and bass are David Bowie's Bring me the disco king and PJ Harvey's Working for the man. 
  
 These are great phones, and once you have heard them there is no going back to whatever you had before. I can only last a little while nowadays with my HE-500 or HD650 before missing the 800s.


----------



## MickeyVee

Hey LugBug.. The Rega is keeper!! Absolutely awesome but it sounds better in my main A/V system where it replaced my DLIII. I can't even describe how good an upgrade it is I'm my main system.  The DLIII is forgiving.. The Rega does punch out, great detail and slightly warm of neutral. Very 'musical' in either setup.  Just smokes the DLIII in my main system.


----------



## brunk

mickeyvee said:


> Hey LugBug.. The Rega is keeper!! Absolutely awesome but it sounds better in my main A/V system where it replaced my DLIII. I can't even describe how good an upgrade it is I'm my main system.  The DLIII is forgiving.. The Rega does punch out, great detail and slightly warm of neutral. Very 'musical' in either setup.  Just smokes the DLIII in my main system.


 
 +1 the Rega and D18 are awesome in a stereo rig, the warmth really comes out 3D and liquid with these 2 DACs. They make me want to spin some vinyl


----------



## RUMAY408

daniel0407 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> A question here: has anybody been able to enjoy The Beatles's white album with the HD800?
> 
> ...


 
  The best I've heard 24/44 FLAC


----------



## Audio Jester

rumay408 said:


> The best I've heard 24/44 FLAC



This talk of the Beatles reminded me of the HeadphonesXI work at AIX records. They are trying to mimic a 5.1 setup in headphones. Interesting stuff. Here is a Beatles sample.


----------



## hekeli

audio jester said:


> This talk of the Beatles reminded me of the HeadphonesXI work at AIX records. They are trying to mimic a 5.1 setup in headphones. Interesting stuff. Here is a Beatles sample.


 
  
 Well yeah it's not like AIX is doing something groundbreaking, they are just using Smyth Realiser for their purposes, which all the credit should go for.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/418401/long-awaited-smyth-svs-realiser-now-available-for-purchase
  
 There's also a head-fi'er software implementation of some Realiser PRIRs available:
  
 https://fongaudio.com/out-of-your-head-software/
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/689299/out-of-your-head-new-virtual-surround-simulator


----------



## Audio Jester

hekeli said:


> Well yeah it's not like AIX is doing something groundbreaking, they are just using Smyth Realiser for their purposes, which all the credit should go for.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/418401/long-awaited-smyth-svs-realiser-now-available-for-purchase
> 
> ...


 

 I agree, though it is nice that they are trying to offer something extra for the headphiles out there.  My reason for posting this was that it demonstrated what can be done with an old Beatles track to overcome that very separated L/R sound as discussed above.


----------



## hekeli

audio jester said:


> I agree, though it is nice that they are trying to offer something extra for the headphiles out there.  My reason for posting this was that it demonstrated what can be done with an old Beatles track to overcome that very separated L/R sound as discussed above.


 
  
 Sure. But just to clarify for everyone that might not get it, obviously you need a proper Beatles 5.1 mix/master in the first place. Realiser just emulates the 5.1 in headphones.


----------



## Audio Jester

hekeli said:


> Sure. But just to clarify for everyone that might not get it, obviously you need a proper Beatles 5.1 mix/master in the first place. Realiser just emulates the 5.1 in headphones.


 





  yeah, who's up for some time travel to sort this problem out?


----------



## MickeyVee

Just got back from auditioning the Naim DAC-V1.  Spent a couple of hours with it and this is the best that I've heard the HD800 so far.  The amp is very capable with plenty of punch and dynamics and the DAC section is out of this world.  The combo provides plenty air and detail, punch, beautiful mids and to die for highs.  Is it worth 2x the price of the WA7? That's very subjective and it probably isn't. Music is more engaging from bottom to top and a soundstage is out of this world. For me, this is an exceptional one box solution for the HD800.  The plan was to add a tube amp down the road but from the audition, I may not feel the need.  Only time will tell.
 Don't get me wrong, the Woo WA7 is phenomenal and the Naim takes the HD800 to another level.
 You've probably figured by now that I ordered one.  Going to get busy putting the WA7 up for sale to help fund it.
 More to come once I've had it for a few weeks.


----------



## fierce_freak

What other one-box solutions have you compared the DAC-V1 with?
  
 I'm looking for the best desktop setup I can get for $2k-ish.


----------



## MickeyVee

Excuse my exuberance, may have gone a little overboard (adjusted my post .. I'm sure there's lots more but my comparison is to the Woo WA7.  See my HD800 review with the WA7. The only other high end that I know of in the $2K range is the McIntosh D100 but for me, it's too big for my desk.  I was going to audition it but was totally smitten by the Naim.  I found nothing lacking during my auditions.  Nice size and via USB, it can skip songs on my Mac plus provides volume control.  See Jude's review in the Winter Gift Guide in desktop dacs/amps for his impressions.
  
 To quote Jude:
 ~~ With the headphones it drives well, the DAC-V1 sounds awesome, exhibiting great impact and detail, with a smoother tonality, no edge or glare of its own. So far, my favorite headphones with it have been the Sennheiser HD 800 and HD600/650--it seems to smile very favorably on their higher nominal impedances.
  
 ~~Naim has really created a beautiful sounding DAC in the DAC-V1. Its built-in headphone amp is certainly great when it's paired up correctly, but isn't quite as versatile a headphone driver as I'd hoped it would be. If you're looking for a desktop all-in-one--and not going to be driving relatively inefficient planar magnetic headphones--you should consider the Naim DAC-V1, especially if getting a high-end-sounding DAC in the process is something you'd value greatly.
  
 Quote:


fierce_freak said:


> What other one-box solutions have you compared the DAC-V1 with?
> 
> I'm looking for the best desktop setup I can get for $2k-ish.


----------



## StubKidDtd2512

fierce_freak said:


> What other one-box solutions have you compared the DAC-V1 with?
> 
> I'm looking for the best desktop setup I can get for $2k-ish.


 
 Well I think that "best desktop setup" depends on your taste when you are ready to spend thousands of dollars for the HD800. For example one of my friends likes the Burson Conductor 9018 very much because it is very detailed and smooth; while another one is wishing for a HDVD800 as a Christmas present. However if you want something extremely detailed and neutral in this price range, you should give the Benchmark DAC2 HGC or DAC2 D a try. Of course in the future you can add an amplifier to alter the sound if you want because many people find the DAC2 HGC too cold for them to enjoy music. I've been using my DAC2 HGC and balanced B22 amp to feed the HD800 for about 10 months and I think I won't need to upgrade anymore.


----------



## AgentXXL

I'm taking a big chance, but I've 'invested' in the Geek Pulse X DAC with the Femto clock upgrade. Here's hoping a balanced DAC with dual ES9018K2M DACs will really make the HD800 shine when used with my impending Bryston BHA-1.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/687851/geek-pulse-geek-desktop-dac-amp-by-light-harmonics
  
 It's still in campaign mode at Indiegogo but remember, it's a 'crowdsourced' product and might not ever be released. That said, Light Harmonics is well known for their DaVinci DAC and is about to release their first 'crowdsourced' product, the Geek Out in January, so my fears about spending the money now are pretty minimal. If anyone wants a referral from me during the last 12 days of the campaign, send me a PM.
  
 A recent update from the LH Labs forum:
  
 http://lhlabs.com/force/geekpulse/426-there-is-some-confused-people-out-there
  
_I hope my answer can help you, but my primary language not English, grammar may be suck..._


_Geek Pulse X is full balanced design version of Geek Pulse_
_1. Geek Pulse X have XLR output connector (4 pin for headphone) on front panel and Dual XLR output connector (Daul 3-pin) for line out._
_2. Geek Pulse X have Dual ES9018K2M dac chip inside, one dac chip for one audio channel decode_

_Geek LPS_
_1. Standalone product , Linear Power Supply_
_2. Main design for provide Pure Clear 12VDC Power for Geek Pulse / Geek Pulse X_
_(ps: Geek Pulse / Geek Pulse X have a Simply Power Supply in package, just buy it to upgrade the Power Supply system)_
_3. and have a USB in and USB out connector, to provide Pure Clear 5VDC USB power_
_(ps: you can google a word "iusbpower", it is same function of this product)_

_Geek Blue_
_1. Standalone product, Bluetooth 4.0 audio transfer._
_2. Main design for connect a mobile to play audio using AptX technology._
_(ps: It need Gavin/ Larry Ho to answer, if your mobile not have AptX technology, can it work??)_
_3. Geek Blue have a analog audio line out (direct connect active speaker or Amplifier) and Digital SPDIF output (connect DAC like Geek Pulse)_

_Femto Clock upgrade (Crystek Clock upgrade)_
_1. a parts call "Clock", using in Geek Pulse / Geek Pulse X_
_2. This upgrade will change a "very good clock" parts in Geek Pulse / Geek Pulse X, will change ONE SET (2 pieces) on each machine._
_3. below USD$2000 price range DAC, In normal case cannot using this "very good clock" parts, because it's very expensive, need USD$60 UP per 1 piece._
  
 Dale


----------



## 62ohm

#25792 checking in, these cans sound very speaker-like even with weak amplification like mine lol (I know, the Magni don't deserve to drive HD800s, currently saving up for a better amp)


----------



## brunk

For those of you that want to make your own HD-800 cables, there is a killer deal on connectors in the DIY forums 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/676402/diy-cable-questions-and-comments-thread/930#post_10072116


----------



## palmfish

As one of the regulars here for a while, I want to say how much I have enjoyed the lively HD 800 dialogue that has taken place here. Unfortunately, I've been weighing a decision for the past few weeks and have decided that I am going to sell my HD 800's. My hearing loss is at the stage where I cannot justify owning a pair of headphones of this caliber any longer. I still enjoy listening to music at moderate volumes with loudspeakers, but my hearing (and chronic tinnitus) is such that I can no longer perceive the fine details and nuances that high-end audio equipment reproduces.
  
 I flew helicopters in the US Army for 20 years and my hearing has progressively gotten worse as the years passed. Last month, at the encouragement of my family, I finally bit the bullet and got hearing aids. Over the past month what I have discovered is, much like brain "burn-in" with headphones, my brain has been compensating for my hearing loss for years, and once I became acclimated to the hearing aids (experiencing the world with restored high frequencies), they allowed my brain to relax, which had the effect of revealing my true "baseline" hearing whenever I remove them. My true baseline hearing is akin to someone with normal hearing stuffing foam inside their ears - muffled and full feeling.
  
 The brain is an amazing thing, and the contrast of my perceived change in hearing over the past 30 days has been startling - no doubt the "burn-in" discussion will make its way back here again someday as it inexorably makes its rounds through the various threads. Suffice it to say that whenever I listen to music now it sounds dull and muffled. I can actually place the HD 800's on my head with my hearing aids on and get full frequency perception, but the fidelity is not even close to audiophile standards anymore. It has been an eye opening (and depressing) experience for me, but I dont have any choice in the matter so it is what it is. Thankfully, modern hearing aids are remarkable - small, discrete, intelligent, and even natural sounding - just not natural enough for an audiophile to enjoy high-resolution music.
  
 I'm sure to continue following this thread and will continue to enjoy the lively discussions which are bound to continue here. But my plan is to sell my HD 800's and downgrade to the HD 600. Depending on how my experience with the 600 goes, my Essence One Muses and Crack will likely soon follow. The good news out of all this is I don't have to be tempted by all the beautiful amps and DACs that many of you own. It's a very fun hobby and pursuit, and I will surely miss it.


----------



## BournePerfect

Assuming your hearing aids were equalized correctly-maybe now you're just noticing the HD800s aren't for you? Or maybe more accurately-your system is no longer tuned properly since it was compensating for (I assume) upper frequency hearing loss before? I'd suggest tuning you rig all over again-or looking possibly at another flagship. Keep in mind the the HD800s are exceptional at low volume listening-which I found a lot of others that aren't. It sounds like that could be beneficial in your situation.
  
 Don't give up yet! Also-be wary of your hearin aids gain when figuring listening volumes out, which I'd imagine wouldn't be too difficult. My .02.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## longbowbbs

Palmfish I hope you continue to find ways to enjoy music at the best level possible. Please continue to participate here. your input is always appreciated!


----------



## BleaK

Good luck and take of your hearing. Remember that hearing all the details and the nuances is not all there is in enjoying music


----------



## brunk

Aww, sorry to hear that Palmfish  Hopefully you don't fade away too fast from the forums, we enjoy your presence! I am no expert with hearing loss and such, but maybe you can still enjoy the midrange and lower frequencies perhaps? If you can, maybe look at an Audeze or something. From one vet to another, thank you for your service!


----------



## MickeyVee

Couldn't have said it better myself.  Take care of yourself Palmfish and enjoy the music in the manner that is most appropriate to you.




  
  
 Quote:


longbowbbs said:


> Palmfish I hope you continue to find ways to enjoy music at the best level possible. Please continue to participate here. your input is always appreciated!


----------



## RUMAY408

My wife is 50% deaf in her right ear and I know how expensive high end hearing aids can be.  I hope the Armed Services are helping to offset the cost of your disability.
  
 I am grateful for your service and also the advice you give on head-fi.


----------



## palmfish

bourneperfect said:


> Assuming your hearing aids were equalized correctly-maybe now you're just noticing the HD800s aren't for you? Or maybe more accurately-your system is no longer tuned properly since it was compensating for (I assume) upper frequency hearing loss before? I'd suggest tuning you rig all over again-or looking possibly at another flagship. Keep in mind the the HD800s are exceptional at low volume listening-which I found a lot of others that aren't. It sounds like that could be beneficial in your situation.
> 
> Don't give up yet! Also-be wary of your hearin aids gain when figuring listening volumes out, which I'd imagine wouldn't be too difficult. My .02.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 I appreciate your thoughts Daniel! Yes, I do have high frequency hearing loss.
  
 I know what you're saying and in theory, it should be a simple matter of re-tuning my system for the new frequency response. Unfortunately, hearing aids are not simply analog devices that amplify certain frequencies like they used to be. They use a complex (and varying) combination of amplification and compression to allow certain quiet sounds to be effectively heard and certain loud sounds to be attenuated. And they incorporate DSP to aid in directional cues as well as noise and feedback suppression. It's a lot more involved than just that, but the end result is a device that is constantly analyzing the environment and making adjustments to numerous parameters to create an approximation of "normal" hearing most of the time. With the HD 800's, I definitely have more treble than before, and I still enjoy the frequency response of the HD 800's, but the things that make them exceptional headphones are no longer present for me. Soundstage width and depth are impossible to discern, and there is distortion (sometimes a static-like hiss, or subtle whistle, or an electronic polyphonic harmonic side tone) when certain instruments or frequencies are played or sustained.
  
 Again, I can listen to music casually and enjoy tight bass, warm mids and sweet highs, but the subtleties are gone and the artifacts can be distracting. That's why I think the HD 600's are worth a try - I still want to own a quality headphone with a pleasing (to me) frequency response but without the performance advantages that are wasted on me. My HD 558's are actually more than adequate for my needs and actually really don't sound any different to me than the 800's now. But they are made of cheap materials and feel flimsy and they aren't "legendary," so I've decided the HD 600's are what I want to own.


----------



## palmfish

Thank you all for the support and encouragement! It really means a lot to me!
  
 No, I will not give up on enjoying music, just the hobby of pursuing the next level of performance. I will certainly continue to participate here and in other threads, I just won't have any credibility as an equipment reviewer anymore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 And yes, the hearing aids and appointments are all provided by the VA free of charge. Gotta hand it to them, they have taken great strides in improving the quality of care they provide to veterans.


----------



## Audio Jester

Maybe you could start a thread on audiophile hearing aids Palmfish? It would be an expensive endeavour, but you could be the Don of the new Hearing Aid Mafia.


----------



## palmfish

audio jester said:


> Maybe you could start a thread on audiophile hearing aids Palmfish? It would be an expensive endeavour, but you could be the Don of the new Hearing Aid Mafia.


 
  
 I love it!
  
 You might be surprised to know that my hearing aids are Phonak's, complete with Knowles BA drivers.


----------



## longbowbbs

palmfish said:


> audio jester said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe you could start a thread on audiophile hearing aids Palmfish? It would be an expensive endeavour, but you could be the Don of the new Hearing Aid Mafia.
> ...


 
 Nice! My ACS T1's use Knowles and they sound great!


----------



## Audio Jester

palmfish said:


> I love it!
> 
> You might be surprised to know that my hearing aids are Phonak's, complete with Knowles BA drivers.


 
Well I would be getting in contact with iem manufacturers if I were you.... More drivers, some carbon fiber and maybe a tube in the mix and you got yourself a stew goin'!


----------



## palmfish

audio jester said:


> Well I would be getting in contact with iem manufacturers if I were you.... More drivers, some carbon fiber and maybe a tube in the mix and you got yourself a stew goin'!


 
  
 Those would be some seriously small tubes!


----------



## 7ryder

stubkiddtd2512 said:


> Well I think that "best desktop setup" depends on your taste when you are ready to spend thousands of dollars for the HD800. For example one of my friends likes the Burson Conductor 9018 very much because it is very detailed and smooth; while another one is wishing for a HDVD800 as a Christmas present. However if you want something extremely detailed and neutral in this price range, you should give the Benchmark DAC2 HGC or DAC2 D a try. Of course in the future you can add an amplifier to alter the sound if you want because many people find the DAC2 HGC too cold for them to enjoy music. I've been using my DAC2 HGC and balanced B22 amp to feed the HD800 for about 10 months and I think I won't need to upgrade anymore.


 
 I own a pair of HD800s and the DAC2 HGC.  I recently tried the HDVA600 with the DAC2 and, to be honest, if there was a difference in the sound of the HD800s by adding the amp, it was so small that it wasn't worth the $1400 for the amp, so I returned it.  of course, YMMV.
  
 I've since purchased a Headamp GS-X mk2 and there is a definite improvement in both the sound of the HD800s and in the sound of my desktop speakers (Focal CMS50) compared to being driven directly from the DAC2.  I know the GS-X mk2 is supposed to be "wire with gain", but adding the amp/preamp to the mix seems to give my set up a warmer sound. 
  
 That said, the DAC2 HGC is a perfectly good DAC/preamp on its own and well worth the audition from Benchmark, especially given their 30 day guarantee.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

7ryder said:


> I own a pair of HD800s and the DAC2 HGC.  I recently tried the HDVA600 with the DAC2 and, to be honest, if there was a difference in the sound of the HD800s by adding the amp, it was so small that it wasn't worth the $1400 for the amp, so I returned it.  of course, YMMV.
> 
> I've since purchased a Headamp GS-X mk2 and there is a definite improvement in both the sound of the HD800s and in the sound of my desktop speakers (Focal CMS50) compared to being driven directly from the DAC2.  I know the GS-X mk2 is supposed to be "wire with gain", but adding the amp/preamp to the mix seems to give my set up a warmer sound.
> 
> That said, the DAC2 HGC is a perfectly good DAC/preamp on its own and well worth the audition from Benchmark, especially given their 30 day guarantee.


 
  
 i think the GSX MK2 is naturally a slightly warm amp. wire-with-gain, but with a musicality to it and a naturalness that is unmatched by almost every other SS amp on the market.


----------



## StubKidDtd2512

7ryder said:


> I own a pair of HD800s and the DAC2 HGC.  I recently tried the HDVA600 with the DAC2 and, to be honest, if there was a difference in the sound of the HD800s by adding the amp, it was so small that it wasn't worth the $1400 for the amp, so I returned it.  of course, YMMV.




Yeah i see your point, but you know, if we got tons of money, there might will be no such words as "diminishing returns" in our dictionary. The balanced B22 can only deliver a little bigger soundstage than the amp section of the DAC2 does but up until now I still dont regret purchasing it at all.


----------



## LugBug1

*Palmfish* buddy, I'm gutted for you. I really hope you continue to contribute to this thread, as you have a lot of experience with the HD800's. Your posts are always intelligent, worthwhile and often very funny. You are a valued member of the team! 
  
  
  
  
 This is what my face is like right now.


----------



## BournePerfect

Palmfish: My sister has had hearing aids her entire life, and will probably be completely deaf sometime later in life. So I'm semi-knowledgable about hearing aids-including the DSPs that all the digital ones have nowadays-whereas hey used to be primarily analog. A lot of hearing aids have numerous DSPs to choose from, each suited towards different things by default-and almost always programmable by the audiologist. I'd suggest telling him your exact situation with headphones-and see if there's a way he can get a DSP specifically for that use-that won't change/compress like the other DSPs used for everyday circumstances. Shouldn't be that difficult assuming he is willing to put forth a little effort-and not blatantly tell you to never listen to HPs again like I'm sure would be the common knee-jerk reaction by a lot of people...keep us updated!
  
 -Daniel


----------



## songmic

bourneperfect said:


> Palmfish: My sister has had hearing aids her entire life, and will probably be completely deaf sometime later in life. So I'm semi-knowledgable about hearing aids-including the DSPs that all the digital ones have nowadays-whereas hey used to be primarily analog. A lot of hearing aids have numerous DSPs to choose from, each suited towards different things by default-and almost always programmable by the audiologist. I'd suggest telling him your exact situation with headphones-and see if there's a way he can get a DSP specifically for that use-that won't change/compress like the other DSPs used for everyday circumstances. Shouldn't be that difficult assuming he is willing to put forth a little effort-and not blatantly tell you to never listen to HPs again like I'm sure would be the common knee-jerk reaction by a lot of people...keep us updated!
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 I'm sorry to hear that. I came down with meningitis when I was five, and while I was spared from having my limbs amputated like some of the less fortunate kids back then, it had an aftereffect: I couldn't hear as well with my right ear as with my left. Thankfully, it gradually improved over time and now I have no problem hearing with my right ear, but there is still a difference between what I hear between left and right. For example, I could make out what two people are saying in a silent conversation when they're sitting right next to me on my left side, but not when they're sitting on my right side.
  
 Nevertheless, this hasn't stopped me from getting into this headphone hobby.


----------



## 7ryder

stubkiddtd2512 said:


> Yeah i see your point, but you know, if we got tons of money, there might will be no such words as "diminishing returns" in our dictionary. The balanced B22 can only deliver a little bigger soundstage than the amp section of the DAC2 does but up until now I still dont regret purchasing it at all.


 
 I'm glad you're happy with your amp. I agree, once you get to a certain point with electronics, the laws of diminishing returns does start to kick in.


----------



## catspaw

I think the main reason upgrading is so common is becouse even if there are diminishing returns and you pay x2 x3 x4 for maybe a 10-20% upgrade, the subjective percived upgrade is usually higher (its very easy to get used to better sound).


----------



## palmfish

bourneperfect said:


> Palmfish: My sister has had hearing aids her entire life, and will probably be completely deaf sometime later in life. So I'm semi-knowledgable about hearing aids-including the DSPs that all the digital ones have nowadays-whereas hey used to be primarily analog. A lot of hearing aids have numerous DSPs to choose from, each suited towards different things by default-and almost always programmable by the audiologist. I'd suggest telling him your exact situation with headphones-and see if there's a way he can get a DSP specifically for that use-that won't change/compress like the other DSPs used for everyday circumstances. Shouldn't be that difficult assuming he is willing to put forth a little effort-and not blatantly tell you to never listen to HPs again like I'm sure would be the common knee-jerk reaction by a lot of people...keep us updated!
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 You are quite knowledgeable about hearing aids!
  
 Yes, my audiologist is very good and he did set up a "music program" for mine which minimizes or eliminates much of the DSP and compression. It's a fine line though because, as you know, you cannot turn everything off and feedback has to be controlled - and it has been a problem with this mode. I have more fittings ahead to fine tune and I am hopeful that I can improve their performance with music.
  
 I will definitely keep you posted and continue to participate here.


----------



## palmfish

lugbug1 said:


> *Palmfish* buddy, I'm gutted for you. I really hope you continue to contribute to this thread, as you have a lot of experience with the HD800's. Your posts are always intelligent, worthwhile and often very funny. You are a valued member of the team!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks LugBug, you made me laugh...


----------



## Chinafbi

I'm the new owner of the HD800.  It just arrived today from Amazon.   I also ordered the He500 and its coming this week.  I'm in the trial period with the Lyr (in possession) + Bifrost Uber (coming friday.)   I may keep both headphones He500 and HD800 if I really like both of them. Can you guys help me with advices on what I should do?  Amps, DAC, Etc... Thanks
  
 I'm using the Fiio E17 line out LOD + Lyr  and the sound on the HD800 is very good so far.   I tried the HD800 with the E17 & E09K but the sound was very bad.  The Bifrost Uber should be here friday.  I can't wait.


----------



## brunk

chinafbi said:


> I'm the new owner of the HD800.  It just arrived today from Amazon.   I also ordered the He500 and its coming this week.  I'm in the trial period with the Lyr + Bifrost Uber.   I may keep both headphones He500 and HD800 if I really like both of them. Can you guys help me with advices on what I should do?  Amps, DAC, Etc... Thanks


 
 1) Read the Lyr thread for tube recommendations.
 2) Look into HE-500 "Jerg" modifications.
 3) Welcome to the club!


----------



## Chinafbi

brunk said:


> 1) Read the Lyr thread for tube recommendations.
> 2) Look into HE-500 "Jerg" modifications.
> 3) Welcome to the club!


 
  
 Should I keep the Lyr or are there better amps?  I don't want to spend too much money.  I don't care if its tube or ss.  As long as the sound is great.


----------



## DarKen23

chinafbi said:


> brunk said:
> 
> 
> > 1) Read the Lyr thread for tube recommendations.
> ...


Then you're in the wrong place


----------



## brunk

chinafbi said:


> Should I keep the Lyr or are there better amps?  I don't want to spend too much money.  I don't care if its tube or ss.  As long as the sound is great.


 
 The Matrix M Stage is an affordable option for the HD-800, and alot of people really like the Emotiva Mini-X A-100 for the HE-500. That's not to say they are necessarily better than Lyr, but are excellent price/performance options.


----------



## bearFNF

I am liking the Vali with the HD800, and its cheap...$129, that being said I also like the Taboo MKIII $1695 or so...


----------



## BournePerfect

Grab the Vali or m-Stage for the HD800s-good synergy (albeit different presentations) with both amps.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Chinafbi

bearfnf said:


> I am liking the Vali with the HD800, and its cheap...$129, that being said I also like the Taboo MKIII $1695 or so...


 
  
 Thanks, I just ordered the Vali through Amazon Prime.  It will be here very quick.  I'm using the HD800 with the Lyr + E17 DAC right now and the sound is really good already.


----------



## Chinafbi

bourneperfect said:


> Grab the Vali or m-Stage for the HD800s-good synergy (albeit different presentations) with both amps.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
  
 Thanks  I just ordered it.


----------



## kazsud

chinafbi said:


> I'm the new owner of the HD800.  It just arrived today from Amazon.   I also ordered the He500 and its coming this week.  I'm in the trial period with the Lyr (in possession) + Bifrost Uber (coming friday.)   I may keep both headphones He500 and HD800 if I really like both of them. Can you guys help me with advices on what I should do?  Amps, DAC, Etc... Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I wouldn't recommend the dac in the e17 for the 800s. The bitfrost urber should be notably better.


----------



## LugBug1

bourneperfect said:


> Grab the Vali or m-Stage for the HD800s-good synergy (albeit different presentations) with both amps.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 Daniel, could you give a brief 'differences' between those two amps with the HD800. Only I'm very familiar with the m-stage but I'm thinking about giving the Vali a go. Cheers bud.


----------



## brunk

lugbug1 said:


> Daniel, could you give a brief 'differences' between those two amps with the HD800. Only I'm very familiar with the m-stage but I'm thinking about giving the Vali a go. Cheers bud.


 
 I'll be building "The Wire" BAL-BAL today and hopefully finish today too. The price to build one, case and all, is slightly above the Vali. So stay tuned as there is most likely a killer amp here for HD-800


----------



## LugBug1

brunk said:


> I'll be building "The Wire" BAL-BAL today and hopefully finish today too. The price to build one, case and all, is slightly above the Vali. So stay tuned as there is most likely a killer amp here for HD-800


 
 Good stuff my friend.


----------



## brunk

lugbug1 said:


> Good stuff my friend.


 
 Yeah I'm pretty excited  In addition, if you want to go dual mono PSU, the cost is still lower than the M-Stage.


----------



## BournePerfect

lugbug1 said:


> Daniel, could you give a brief 'differences' between those two amps with the HD800. Only I'm very familiar with the m-stage but I'm thinking about giving the Vali a go. Cheers bud.


 
  
 m-Stage: warm, but w/ great transients and better soundstage, nice full-sounding bass, good tonality, zero sibilance.
  
 Vali: more upfront presentation, smaller ss, punchier bass, possibly more detailed, slightly better tonality,still can be somewhat sibilant w/ stock HD800, but not bad.
  
 They'd actually be great budget companion amps for HD800 owners-and easily the 2 I would recommend first in the <$1000 price range
  
 -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

HD800 song of the day:
  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XJxFAoiWSY
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Hun7er

New day for my HD800.
  
 I have received an MBL 5011D preamp. 
 I tried it with the MCIntosh MC225. The sound is amazing. The preamp retains the musicality, the warm and the medium of the MCIntosh.
 It adds dynamic, texturation, body, bass authority and depth. Moreover the sound becomes more analogic.
  
 The MCIntosh and the MBL are complementary.
  
 The HD800 become my favorite headphone with no contest.


----------



## LugBug1

bourneperfect said:


> m-Stage: warm, but w/ great transients and better soundstage, nice full-sounding bass, good tonality, zero sibilance.
> 
> Vali: more upfront presentation, smaller ss, punchier bass, possibly more detailed, slightly better tonality,still can be somewhat sibilant w/ stock HD800, but not bad.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you 
  


hun7er said:


> The HD800 become my favorite headphone with no contest.


 
 Up against the HE60, HE6, K1000. That says something!


----------



## BournePerfect

It speaks of scaling... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 -Daniel


----------



## skeptic

brunk said:


> I'll be building "The Wire" BAL-BAL today and hopefully finish today too. The price to build one, case and all, is slightly above the Vali. So stay tuned as there is most likely a killer amp here for HD-800


 
  
 Best of luck with the build and all the smd work brunk!  I'm eager to hear how you like it, even if I did opt for the lowly se-se version.  Also a good reminder that I need to get steppin' and place my component orders.  
  
 The mainline is just so damn good with hd800's that I haven't bothered to turn my iron on since I finished it.  I also have a half done mini3 sitting on my bench that I really should polish off one of these evenings.


----------



## LugBug1

bourneperfect said:


> It speaks of scaling...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Indeed.


----------



## Hun7er

lugbug1 said:


> Thank you
> 
> Up against the HE60, HE6, K1000. That says something!


 
  
 The HD800 is the most homogeneous when properly amped. HE60 had smaller soundstage, HE6 has too forward mid and the K1000 I don't very like it. The HD800 becomes better and better...the others too but their flaw remains


----------



## kazsud

hun7er said:


> The HD800 is the most homogeneous when properly amped. HE60 had smaller soundstage, HE6 has too forward mid and the K1000 I don't very like it. The HD800 becomes better and better...the others too but their flaw remains



 


Are you running off of speaker taps?


----------



## Hun7er

No, I use HE adapter


----------



## brunk

skeptic said:


> Best of luck with the build and all the smd work brunk!  I'm eager to hear how you like it, even if I did opt for the lowly se-se version.  Also a good reminder that I need to get steppin' and place my component orders.
> 
> The mainline is just so damn good with hd800's that I haven't bothered to turn my iron on since I finished it.  I also have a half done mini3 sitting on my bench that I really should polish off one of these evenings.


 
 Thanks, I am getting the build started now. I ordered my parts well in advance of the boards shipping because i think there was close to 100 boards in the wild at once. Currently, I hear capacitor selection is abysmal because of this, so you might be SOL for while.


----------



## thegrobe

I've had my HD800 here for the last couple days. SN 26089. Audio-GD SA-2 DAC > Decware CSP3 > Decware Taboo mk3. Holy smokes these cans are good! 
  
 Although it's obviously honeymoon time, I can definitely tell you these aren't going anywhere. I had some concerns about reports of hot/unpleasant treble and no bass, but there's really none of that going on. Maybe you gotta have the upstream in order to get the most full/balanced sound out of these? Maybe the tube gear is getting it done but there's plenty of body in the mids, spot-on bass quantity, and the highs are not fatiguing at all. Top to bottom, it seems nothing emphasized, nothing lacking. And the imaging/ space etc. WOW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I can see these are going to give the LCD-3 some serious competition. Back to the honeymoon .....(hangs "do not disturb" sign on door)


----------



## MickeyVee

^^ Congrats!!
 Yeah.. I'm in honeymoon mode too but with a very different system..
  
 Just picked up my Naim DAC-V1 and have been listening to it on and off for the last four hours or so. The last hour solid.. I've read that it takes about 100 hours to break in but so far it just smokes the WA7 (which now sounds rough around the edges to me).  Deeper, tighter bass, vocals to die for (both male & female), precise instrumentation placement, detail galore, a sort of richness/fullness thats hard to describe (the Naim sound that I've been reading about?) and a sound stage to die for.  Smooth as silk, no sibilance.. maybe a little rough on top but still smoother than what I've had before.
  
 I haven't heard the HD800 sound better. In each of the previous setups (Bifrost Uber/Lyr, WA7) I always found something lacking but not so far with the Naim.  The plan was to add a tube (Woo WA2, WA5, Raptor, Decware??) amp way down the road (after I recover from this purchase) but if the Naim is going to get better, it may be an end game for me.
  
 I'll give it a few months to break in and see if the magic is still there. The WA7 lasted four months and is now up for sale. Keeping the Vali just for the sheer value and fun of it and can easily use it in the bedroom and living room.
  
 Darn these HD800's.. aren't they wonderful!


----------



## olor1n

Is that the Xbox amp/dac? Cool.
  
 Gotta LOL at the end-game proclamation though. The itch will always be there, regardless of how content we are. Y'all know what I'm talking about.


----------



## MickeyVee

Maybe.. this is it.. Yeah, gotta laugh at the end-game thing. This is HeadFi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
 Quote:


olor1n said:


> Is that the Xbox amp/dac? Cool.
> 
> Gotta LOL at the end-game proclamation though. The itch will always be there, regardless of how content we are. Y'all know what I'm talking about.


----------



## palmfish

bourneperfect said:


> Palmfish: My sister has had hearing aids her entire life, and will probably be completely deaf sometime later in life. So I'm semi-knowledgable about hearing aids-including the DSPs that all the digital ones have nowadays-whereas hey used to be primarily analog. A lot of hearing aids have numerous DSPs to choose from, each suited towards different things by default-and almost always programmable by the audiologist. I'd suggest telling him your exact situation with headphones-and see if there's a way he can get a DSP specifically for that use-that won't change/compress like the other DSPs used for everyday circumstances. Shouldn't be that difficult assuming he is willing to put forth a little effort-and not blatantly tell you to never listen to HPs again like I'm sure would be the common knee-jerk reaction by a lot of people...keep us updated!
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Hey Daniel, want to let you know I am reconsidering selling my HD 800's. I visited the audiologist and had him tweak some settings on my "Music Program" and things are sounding better. He had to turn the feedback suppression up a couple notches to prevent the whistling feedback and I had him attenuate the highest frequencies a couple dB to tame the shrillness. The HD 800's are still a bit splashy on top but not as bad as they were. I also reinstalled my Anax mod foam/felt rings and things are sounding pretty good overall - still not what I would call "audiophile grade" sound, but now the HD 800's definitely are several notches better than the 558's. I get a sense of air and space with them again and a clarity and ease of effort with the 800's where the 558's sound closed in and cramped and darker. I'm at the point where the difference between them is big enough that I am doubting that the 600's will suffice.
  
 I don't think I will ever eliminate the fuzz surrounding some high frequency sounds (its like a bit of scratchy hash straddling the pure tone) but overall, the 800's are at the point where the 558's don't satisfy. I'm going to keep tweaking and experimenting.
  
 Thanks again for the encouragement.


----------



## brunk

Wow great to hear Palmfish! Glad to see there's still an appreciable difference for you


----------



## BournePerfect

palmfish said:


> Hey Daniel, want to let you know I am reconsidering selling my HD 800's. I visited the audiologist and had him tweak some settings on my "Music Program" and things are sounding better. He had to turn the feedback suppression up a couple notches to prevent the whistling feedback and I had him attenuate the highest frequencies a couple dB to tame the shrillness. The HD 800's are still a bit splashy on top but not as bad as they were. I also reinstalled my Anax mod foam/felt rings and things are sounding pretty good overall - still not what I would call "audiophile grade" sound, but now the HD 800's definitely are several notches better than the 558's. I get a sense of air and space with them again and a clarity and ease of effort with the 800's where the 558's sound closed in and cramped and darker. I'm at the point where the difference between them is big enough that I am doubting that the 600's will suffice.
> 
> I don't think I will ever eliminate the fuzz surrounding some high frequency sounds (its like a bit of scratchy hash straddling the pure tone) but overall, the 800's are at the point where the 558's don't satisfy. I'm going to keep tweaking and experimenting.
> 
> Thanks again for the encouragement.


 
  
 Awesome! Keep tweaking!!!!!
  
 Glad to hear they are satisfactory at least for now-I'm sure there's plenty more to squeeze from both the hearing aids and the rest of the rig-it'll all come together eventually. Glad to see you're already making some sound progress...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## longbowbbs

palmfish said:


> bourneperfect said:
> 
> 
> > Palmfish: My sister has had hearing aids her entire life, and will probably be completely deaf sometime later in life. So I'm semi-knowledgable about hearing aids-including the DSPs that all the digital ones have nowadays-whereas hey used to be primarily analog. A lot of hearing aids have numerous DSPs to choose from, each suited towards different things by default-and almost always programmable by the audiologist. I'd suggest telling him your exact situation with headphones-and see if there's a way he can get a DSP specifically for that use-that won't change/compress like the other DSPs used for everyday circumstances. Shouldn't be that difficult assuming he is willing to put forth a little effort-and not blatantly tell you to never listen to HPs again like I'm sure would be the common knee-jerk reaction by a lot of people...keep us updated!
> ...


 
 Excellent news! Now it is down to almost regular Head-Fi tweeking!


----------



## thegrobe

Palmfish- I'm glad to hear you're finding an acceptable work around. Your other posts are a heart breaker, but it's good you're finding something that works for you.


----------



## palmfish

Thanks guys.

The distortion is still an annoying distraction at times, but overall I have to say they sound pretty good. Dynamics are intact and the airy stage (my favorite aspect of the HD 800) is noticeable.

Its actually quite amazing that it sounds as good as it does considering the signal path the music is traveling along to my inner ear...


----------



## PCWar

Am waiting impatiently for my HD800. I was curious about one thing. Red the last 100 pages of the thread with the expectation to find a very limited number of amps that would go well with them and didn't found one single model. Why people keep telling they are difficult to pair then when they are so good to anyone with amps from ~100 USD Vali & O2 to 3000 USD. Will post my positive impressions paired with my Portaphile 627 when they arrive.


----------



## Audio Jester

palmfish said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> The distortion is still an annoying distraction at times, but overall I have to say they sound pretty good. Dynamics are intact and the airy stage (my favorite aspect of the HD 800) is noticeable.
> 
> Its actually quite amazing that it sounds as good as it does considering the signal path the music is traveling along to my inner ear...


 Palmfish, this is HeadFi. If it goes on/in/near your ear and vibrates it can be tweaked/modded/improved upon. I wish you the best for your new journey, the Hearing Aid Mafia is calling!


----------



## palmfish

Thanks Jester, I'm trying. I have nothing to lose.


----------



## Chinafbi

My Bifrost Uber just arrived today and I'm listening to the Lyr + Bifrost Uber Combo.  The sound is just too bright.  Yesterday, I tried the Fiio E17 DAC + Lyr (tungsgram ecc85) and the sound was just right and is really good and musical. 
  
  
 Update:  I think I found the answer.  The Lyr (Tungsgram Ecc85) is not a good combination for all of my sennheser headphones.  I will try other tubes when i get them in the mail in a few days.


----------



## LugBug1

mickeyvee said:


> ^^ Congrats!!
> Yeah.. I'm in honeymoon mode too but with a very different system..
> 
> Just picked up my Naim DAC-V1 and have been listening to it on and off for the last four hours or so. The last hour solid.. I've read that it takes about 100 hours to break in but so far it just smokes the WA7 (which now sounds rough around the edges to me).  Deeper, tighter bass, vocals to die for (both male & female), precise instrumentation placement, detail galore, a sort of richness/fullness thats hard to describe (the Naim sound that I've been reading about?) and a sound stage to die for.  Smooth as silk, no sibilance.. maybe a little rough on top but still smoother than what I've had before.
> ...


 
 I would say any Naim product could be a potential endgamer. Congrats, I'd love to hear the V1. It's one of the greatest Dacs out there. 
  


palmfish said:


>


 
 Thats great news palmfish, maybe just need some adjusting time. I don't know if you use a computer as an audio source but you could maybe try using an EQ to tame certain freqs? It may be a case that its only one area that is causing the distortions. I use foobar and the inbuilt EQ is really quite good. I use it to tweak my K701. 
  
 Or if you use a cd player, there are plenty of very good vintage graphic equalizers out there by the likes of ADC, Pioneer, Marantz, Technics. And they look verry pretty with all the lights ha! 
  
 Also, I just wanted to say... No one on here has perfect hearing. In fact most of us into audio have far from perfect ears. We hammer them more than most people. I played in bands from the age of 17 to 30 playing most weekends and practising twice a week. Every gig or practice I would be a little deaf afterwards. My ears are definitely damaged to a certain extent because of this. I now avoid going to any rock/pop gigs when my friends are going. I always make some excuse because they would call me a ***** for saying that it will be too loud haha. 
  
 A good ear, doesn't have to mean a perfectly working one. A good ear is experience with music/audio. Try telling Beethoven he had a bad ear! (Well he wouldn't hear you anyway but you know what I mean ) 
  
 We're all routing for you, and keep us informed.


----------



## palmfish

> Originally Posted by *LugBug1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Thats great news palmfish, maybe just need some adjusting time. I don't know if you use a computer as an audio source but you could maybe try using an EQ to tame certain freqs? It may be a case that its only one area that is causing the distortions. I use foobar and the inbuilt EQ is really quite good. I use it to tweak my K701.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't use a computer as a (direct) source so EQ will be difficult. Vintage gear, as you know, is right up my alley but I had not thought of adding a graphic equalizer...an excellent idea, although it will change my entire setup since I currently have my Squeezebox Touch feeding three components. I'm gonna dedicate some grey matter to that one.
  
 And I appreciate you sharing your experience. Widening my perspective of hearing and audio helps me deal with my disability, and maybe it will also raise a red flag for some younger people here to use some caution with this hobby.


----------



## BournePerfect

Agreed-hearing damage is the elephant in the room here at Head-fi, and in most audio circles I'd presume.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Rayvolution

The HD 800 has been on a price drop for the last month on Amazon, currently sitting at $889. Anyone have any idea whats going on here?


----------



## bearFNF

Must be a pre-x-mas sale...time for a second set...


----------



## money4me247

rayvolution said:


> The HD 800 has been on a price drop for the last month on Amazon, currently sitting at $889. Anyone have any idea whats going on here?


 
 +1. On the deals thread, there is a scramble of people ordering it as someone claimed it is a "price error."
  
 luckily for me these headphones are wayyy outta my price range anyways.
  
 EDIT: All gone... damn that was fasttt hahah


----------



## bearFNF

money4me247 said:


> +1. On the deals thread, there is a scramble of people ordering it as someone claimed it is a "price error."
> 
> luckily for me these headphones are wayyy outta my price range anyways.
> 
> EDIT: All gone... damn that was fasttt hahah


 

 heh, that was fast, someone probably noticed the error and 'fixed' it...


----------



## vincent215

rayvolution said:


> The HD 800 has been on a price drop for the last month on Amazon, currently sitting at $889. Anyone have any idea whats going on here?


 
 The lowest possible retail price is 10% off the list price. Otherwise, warranty is void.


----------



## third_eye

HOLY &***, I actually saw that price on Amazon Prime about an hour ago and my first thought was clearance for a new model. Then I realized it had to be an error and was fixed.


----------



## thegrobe

That's nuts. I had them in my Amazon cart but ended up ordering from ttvj. Today it's that price! But not available?


----------



## screwdriver

didnt see this deal - oh well....


----------



## bearFNF

I'd be interested to see if anyone actually was able to get that price...


----------



## Chinafbi

bearfnf said:


> I'd be interested to see if anyone actually was able to get that price...


 
 Hopefully they ship the orders for the people that ordered.   Too bad I wasn't online at that time to purchase.  I love my HD800.  The sound is superior to the HD650 and HE500  that I have.  The imaging and soundstage is unbeatable.


----------



## Rayvolution

Damn from price history it looked like a declining trend like the T1 and I waited on it. Looks like I should have forgone my budget for a minute. Oh well maybe in a few years


----------



## Komuso

My HD800s arrived today.  I am pairing it with a Decware CSP3 + Taboo.  Having never heard the HD800 but reading some I was mainly worried about bass quantity and brightness.  I was looking forward to detail and transparency.  Nothing to worry about 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  Bass is perfect for my tastes.  I listen primarily to jazz trios where the bass is always going to be tight anyway.  I am going to enjoy the HD800 with my current amps and then decide if I need to explore.  The HD800 seems to pair well with tube amps.  I need to read through this read to learn about mods, cables, maintenance, etc.


----------



## NZtechfreak

Got my HD800 this week on sale, having had them on loan for about a month at the beginning of the year. Like others I had trepidation about the bass quantity and quality and the musicality of the HD800, for my tastes it seems I needn't have worried. Running single-ended off my Audio-GD Reference 10 I simply adore their sound. Question now is whether to get a balanced setup with a 4-pin XLR termination to run them that way off the 10...
  
 In any case, I'm enjoying them now even single-ended, a nice counterpoint to my HE-6, which runs off a speaker amp with the 10 acting as a pre-amp. A single button push to change from speaker to HP output on the 10 makes switching an absolute cinch.


----------



## DarKen23

nztechfreak said:


> Got my HD800 this week on sale, having had them on loan for about a month at the beginning of the year. Like others I had trepidation about the bass quantity and quality and the musicality of the HD800, for my tastes it seems I needn't have worried. Running single-ended off my Audio-GD Reference 10 I simply adore their sound. Question now is whether to get a balanced setup with a 4-pin XLR termination to run them that way off the 10...
> 
> In any case, I'm enjoying them now even single-ended, a nice counterpoint to my HE-6, which runs off a speaker amp with the 10 acting as a pre-amp. A single button push to change from speaker to HP output on the 10 makes switching an absolute cinch.


 
 That is one fine amp. Cheers


----------



## longbowbbs

komuso said:


> My HD800s arrived today.  I am pairing it with a Decware CSP3 + Taboo.  Having never heard the HD800 but reading some I was mainly worried about bass quantity and brightness.  I was looking forward to detail and transparency.  Nothing to worry about
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Welcome aboard Komuso! Great setup. I had the CSP2+/Taboo MK III with the HD800's and it is an awesome combination.


----------



## DutchGFX

I was incredulous when I realized that the best part of this thread is seeing everyone's vocabulary. I love fancy words, so nice hit on Trepidation


----------



## wink

I find that those fancy words obfuscate the dialogue, and would rather we used the ubiquitous words as a general preference.


----------



## 7ryder

wink said:


> I find that those fancy words obfuscate the dialogue, and would rather we used the ubiquitous words as a general preference.


 
 yeah, what he said!


----------



## longbowbbs

7ryder said:


> wink said:
> 
> 
> > I find that those fancy words obfuscate the dialogue, and would rather we used the ubiquitous words as a general preference.
> ...


 
 Never abrogate the opportunity to elucidate clearly....


----------



## bearFNF

^^^Nice...
  
 Yep, Taboo MKIII does a good job, Congrats and welcome to the club...


----------



## Komuso

I haven't convinced myself yet that the CSP3 + HD800 alone isn't the better combo than the CSP3 + Taboo + HD800.  Sound is definitely thicker and warmer with the Taboo in play.  If I want a more clinical, less tubey sound then just use the CSP3 alone.  You guys might agree?  In any case, it's still the honeymoon period.  I should hold off on statements about sound until a couple weeks in with these HD800.  Overall, I am very happy with this purchase.  The headphone journey to the HD800 was fun and expensive.    
  
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *longbowbbs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Welcome aboard Komuso! Great setup. I had the CSP2+/Taboo MK III with the HD800's and it is an awesome combination.


 
  


bearfnf said:


> ^^^Nice...
> Yep, Taboo MKIII does a good job, Congrats and welcome to the club...


----------



## longbowbbs

komuso said:


> I haven't convinced myself yet that the CSP3 + HD800 alone isn't the better combo than the CSP3 + Taboo + HD800.  Sound is definitely thicker and warmer with the Taboo in play.  If I want a more clinical, less tubey sound then just use the CSP3 alone.  You guys might agree?  In any case, it's still the honeymoon period.  I should hold off on statements about sound until a couple weeks in with these HD800.  Overall, I am very happy with this purchase.  The headphone journey to the HD800 was fun and expensive.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
 There were times when I enjoyed the CSP2+/HD800 without the Taboo. Depended on the music and the mood.


----------



## NZtechfreak

darken23 said:


> That is one fine amp. Cheers


 
  
 Thanks! Yes, I enjoy the Ref 10 immensely.
  


dutchgfx said:


> I was incredulous when I realized that the best part of this thread is seeing everyone's vocabulary. I love fancy words, so nice hit on Trepidation


 
  
 Thank you, some wonderful vocabulary on display here from everyone I see!
  
  
 Now, a little more on-topic: Looking at getting some balanced cables terminated in 4-pin XLR for use with the Ref 10 HP output, I see options with Toxic, Moon Audio, Alo Audio amongst others. Any particular recommendations from people here?
  
 Hopefully I can ask this without the thread becoming a cable debate circus. For clarity, I really only want balanced because I feel like the doubled power output does improve things, and also because I can use the same set of adapters I already have (into various terminations) with multiple headphones. I'm not a huge believer in lots of the other purported benefits of balanced headphones, and neither am I any great believer in silver this or copper that conferring any great change or improvement in the sound, so if we could avoid derailing the thread with that can of worms I'd appreciate it.


----------



## paradoxper

nztechfreak said:


> Now, a little more on-topic: Looking at getting some balanced cables terminated in 4-pin XLR for use with the Ref 10 HP output, I see options with Toxic, Moon Audio, Alo Audio amongst others. Any particular recommendations from people here?


 
 Just re-terminate your stock cable to 4-pin. Other than that Q and DHC are top picks.


----------



## olor1n

Contact Steve at Q-Audio. His cables are well crafted, ergonomic and purrty. Customer service is second to none.


----------



## bearFNF

I really like the 'Q' French silk.  Very light and flexible.
 It can also be used with Audeze HP's and I bought the adapters for my HE500's also.


----------



## NZtechfreak

Perfect! Would love to spend some money with Steve.


----------



## 62ohm

Can someone help me on upgrading my amp here, which one would be better for HD800? Alo Pan Am or Schiit Lyr? (I don't plan to spend a lot on tube rolling, probably not even going to tube roll at all lol)


----------



## MickeyVee

@62ohm
 If you're looking for a budget way to get into the HD800, look no further than Schiit.  Based on your signature, keep going the Schiit route.  I'd highly recommend upgrading your DAC by going to a Bifrost Uber and adding the Vali.  I have the Vali and it is pretty amazing with the HD800.. check the Vali thread.


----------



## 62ohm

mickeyvee said:


> @62ohm
> If you're looking for a budget way to get into the HD800, look no further than Schiit.  Based on your signature, keep going the Schiit route.  I'd highly recommend upgrading your DAC by going to a Bifrost Uber and adding the Vali.  I have the Vali and it is pretty amazing with the HD800.. check the Vali thread.


 
  
 What about the Lyr? I also heard good things about its pairing with HD800


----------



## MickeyVee

I had the Lyr and now have the Vali (and the Naim) and here are the advatages..
 - If you're going to tube roll or have a collection of headphones with various impedences, go for it. The Lyr will drive pretty much everything.
 - If your only headphone is the HD800, I don ot see any advantage of the Lyr other than driving to blistering levels. The vali goes more than loud enouhg for me with the HD800.
 The Vali is that good and I dont see any advatages of the Lyr for the HD800.  Knowing what I know now, I think the perfect entry level for the HD800 is the Bifrost Uber/Vali. YMMV
 Also, check the Vali thread, there's a lot of talk about HD800 synergy.
 Good Luck!


----------



## thegunner100

mickeyvee said:


> I had the Lyr and now have the Vali (and the Naim) and here are the advatages..
> - If you're going to tube roll or have a collection of headphones with various impedences, go for it. The Lyr will drive pretty much everything.
> - If your only headphone is the HD800, I don ot see any advantage of the Lyr other than driving to blistering levels. The vali goes more than loud enouhg for me with the HD800.
> The Vali is that good and I dont see any advatages of the Lyr for the HD800.  Knowing what I know now, I think the perfect entry level for the HD800 is the Bifrost Uber/Vali. YMMV
> ...


 
 Yeah I have the vali + gungnir now but I am wondering if the uberfrost would have been a better combo with the hd800 and vali. The gungnir can sound overly dynamic sometimes, but I'm gonna give it a week or so to burn in.


----------



## bearFNF

I was thinking the other day that the Vali might have been as far as would have gone with the HD800's, it is very good with them.  At this point it is my curiosity that keeps me getting more stuff...


----------



## R Scott Ireland

62ohm said:


> Can someone help me on upgrading my amp here, which one would be better for HD800? Alo Pan Am or Schiit Lyr? (I don't plan to spend a lot on tube rolling, probably not even going to tube roll at all lol)


 
  
 I have both the Pan Am and the Lyr and the HD800's sound very good on both.
  
 Since you don't plan to do much tube rolling, the Pan Am might be the way to go; you can get killer tubes inexpensively and there are a lot fewer choices to make. However, the Pan Am + Passport is more $$.


----------



## kazsud

Here is my hd800 song of the day

http://m.soundcloud.com/nozu/emotion-1


----------



## kamalz

thegunner100 said:


> Yeah I have the vali + gungnir now but I am wondering if the uberfrost would have been a better combo with the hd800 and vali. The gungnir can sound overly dynamic sometimes, but I'm gonna give it a week or so to burn in.


 

 i think it is very difficult for lyr to sound the way i want with hd800
 You need a good warm musical dac ( musical fidelity)  & good tubes (mullard) & good after market cable for hd800 & good conditonized electricity
 Too much to invest IMO
 Lyr is edgy & so too HD800 thus everything needs to be right to sound right
 Upgraded Crack would be a better choice for this level


----------



## 62ohm

Hi everyone, thanks for the recommendations. Seems like the Vali is the better pair than the Lyr for HD800 I take it.
  
 Quote:


r scott ireland said:


> I have both the Pan Am and the Lyr and the HD800's sound very good on both.
> 
> Since you don't plan to do much tube rolling, the Pan Am might be the way to go; you can get killer tubes inexpensively and there are a lot fewer choices to make. However, the Pan Am + Passport is more $$.


 
  
 I actually really like the Pan Am because it can also serve as a portable amp/dac with the passport. Though I read some reviews saying the soundstage of the HD800/Pan Am is not as large as HD800/Lyr. The passport is not mandatory though, right? It would still work without the passport?


----------



## Maxvla

thegunner100 said:


> Yeah I have the vali + gungnir now but I am wondering if the uberfrost would have been a better combo with the hd800 and vali. The gungnir can sound overly dynamic sometimes, but I'm gonna give it a week or so to burn in.



The Gungnir's problem is actually that it is not very dynamic, everything is loud and louder. It is a relentless, tiring driving sensation.


----------



## 62ohm

And what about the Valhalla? I don't hear a lot regarding the Valhalla, is there any particular reason behind this?
  
 edit: or the Asgard 2


----------



## thegunner100

maxvla said:


> The Gungnir's problem is actually that it is not very dynamic, everything is loud and louder. It is a relentless, tiring driving sensation.


 

 Yeah I'm interested now in the x-sabre or concero, after reading your comparison between the gungnir and x-sabre. It'll probably suit me more, but the x-sabre is a bit more expensive than the gungnir . Is the concero good in terms of reducing the "loudness"? I may try to pick one up used if the gungnir proves to still be too loud in a week.
  
 It seems to have settled down a little bit after 4 days of continuous burn in.


----------



## DarKen23

thegunner100 said:


> maxvla said:
> 
> 
> > The Gungnir's problem is actually that it is not very dynamic, everything is loud and louder. It is a relentless, tiring driving sensation.
> ...


The concero is good from what I've read. I have the DA8 from Yulong Audio, couldn't be happier. Excellent with the HD800


----------



## AgentXXL

thegunner100 said:


> maxvla said:
> 
> 
> > The Gungnir's problem is actually that it is not very dynamic, everything is loud and louder. It is a relentless, tiring driving sensation.
> ...


 
  
 If you're looking at the X-Sabre or Concero and have some patience, you might want to consider the LH Labs Geek Pulse:
  
_[Mod Edit: Referral links are not permitted.]_
  
 There's a decent thread discussing this crowd-source funded DAC, but given Light Harmonic's past engineering marvel in the $31,000 DaVinci dual DAC, everyone (including myself) has high hopes for the Geek Pulse. The big 'gotcha' is the waiting period for delivery. The Indigogo funding campaign ends in 4 days and there are some special announcements on the site (new perks) at 6pm PST Mon. Dec. 23rd, 2013.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/687851/geek-pulse-geek-desktop-dac-amp-by-light-harmonics
  
 Dale


----------



## thegunner100

I'd rather not wait for the geek pulse.


----------



## skeptic

I'd trust that impulse.  The geek hype train seems to derive from a highly flawed premise that just because a company can build a well regarded "cost is no object" product, then obviously they'll make a great $300 - $1k dac too, subject to the elective upgrades.  Er...wait....that actually doesn't follow.  Moreover, for all its bells and whistles, the pulse doesn't appear to include the sort of power regulation and independent supplies for the dac board and output stage that you find in a diy twisted pear kit for $700.  Throw in an $80 amanero board, and I wonder which will sound better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 If you want something that is almost certainly worth waiting for, the bottlehead/john swenson fpga based dac is due to be formally announced in the next month or so.  After several years of careful design and redesign work, and multiple prototypes, this is the source I'm saving my money for.  Check out Swenson's various posts in this thread about jitter, usb isolation and input design (several of which are on the page I'm linking): http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,4086.210.html .  Note that contrary to the title of the linked thread, they are not yet taking orders.  Also, although this is a bottlehead product, I understand that they no longer intend to include a tube in the output stage because it simply isn't necessary.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

62ohm said:


> I actually really like the Pan Am because it can also serve as a portable amp/dac with the passport. Though I read some reviews saying the soundstage of the HD800/Pan Am is not as large as HD800/Lyr. The passport is not mandatory though, right? It would still work without the passport?




Well, you will need some power source. The general consensus is that it sounds better using the Passport, instead of the Gateway AC line power source.


----------



## 62ohm

r scott ireland said:


> Well, you will need some power source. The general consensus is that it sounds better using the Passport, instead of the Gateway AC line power source.


 
  
 So I have to get either one of the optional accessories for the Pan Am? I guess it's not really an 'optional' option after all..


----------



## elvergun

bearfnf said:


> I'd be interested to see if anyone actually was able to get that price...


 
  
 I just got mine today.
  
 When I saw the price I could not stop myself.  I had just purchased a T1, so I wasn't definitely not  planning on buying an HD800.   I quickly formulated a plan to have a head-to-head to see which one is the better headphone.   Well, 10 minutes or so after I put the HD800 on the Sennheiser won that battle handily.


----------



## AgentXXL

skeptic said:


> I'd trust that impulse.  The geek hype train seems to derive from a highly flawed premise that just because a company can build a well regarded "cost is no object" product, then obviously they'll make a great $300 - $1k dac too, subject to the elective upgrades.  Er...wait....that actually doesn't follow.  Moreover, for all its bells and whistles, the pulse doesn't appear to include the sort of power regulation and independent supplies for the dac board and output stage that you find in a diy twisted pear kit for $700.  Throw in an $80 amanero board, and I wonder which will sound better
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not to get defensive (because I have contributed), but it's funny that you mention the power regulation and the amanero board. They do offer an optional linear power supply with separate power for both the USB front end and the rest of the amp (the LPS or LPS4). The lead engineer is also looking at the amanero board and comparing it to his own XMOS design - he said he's willing to use the amanero if it offers an improvement over his own implementation. You're definitely living up to your username. Reading through the comments section on the campaign home page, the LH Labs forum and even the thread here on Head-fi would have revealed this information, but to each their own. If you're not willing to read about the project, then I definitely don't recommend contributing towards it. I just mentioned it as an option and certainly the HD800 inspires a LOT of different component choices.
  
 Dale


----------



## MickeyVee

My HD800 song of the day.. just downloaded Gotye's Somebody That I Used to Know (Tiësto Remix) from the iTunes store.. even at 256kbps.. WOW.. this is one remix that deserves to be cranked. I'm on my 5th play and still going  EOF


----------



## palmfish

mickeyvee said:


> My HD800 song of the day.. just downloaded Gotye's Somebody That I Used to Know (Tiësto Remix) from the iTunes store.. even at 256kbps.. WOW.. this is one remix that deserves to be cranked. I'm on my 5th play and still going  EOF




Thanks for the recommendation. Listening to it now on MOG (at 320 kbps ). It sounds good on my speakers too!


----------



## BournePerfect

maxvla said:


> The Gungnir's problem is actually that it is not very dynamic, everything is loud and louder. It is a relentless, tiring driving sensation.


 
  
 Yep-'loud' and pretty weak with the low-level details imo. Sounded terrible paired with my Bryston/HD800-which I loved with various other dacs mind you.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## macbob713

Anyone compared the hd800 on the Schitt Mjolinor and the hdvd800 or 600?
I have the Mjolinor now, and 2 weeks away from possibly replacing it with the Sennheiser amp. Am I chasing a self delusional fantasy or will the HDVd800 be that much better than the Schitt?
I would love to hear from anyone who has compared these amps with the hd800.


----------



## Chinafbi

I tried the Vali + Bifrost VS Lyr (Orange Globe) + Bifrost.   The Vali's sound is not clear.   The sound on the Lyr is very clear.  It is night and day different.  I'm sending my Vali back to Amazon.


----------



## 62ohm

chinafbi said:


> I tried the Vali + Bifrost VS Lyr (Orange Globe) + Bifrost.   The Vali's sound is not clear.   The sound on the Lyr is very clear.  It is night and day different.  I'm sending my Vali back to Amazon.


 
  
 What about the Valhalla/HD800 pairing? Any thoughts on that? thanks


----------



## skeptic

agentxxl said:


> Not to get defensive (because I have contributed), but it's funny that you mention the power regulation and the amanero board. They do offer an optional linear power supply with separate power for both the USB front end and the rest of the amp (the LPS or LPS4). The lead engineer is also looking at the amanero board and comparing it to his own XMOS design - he said he's willing to use the amanero if it offers an improvement over his own implementation. You're definitely living up to your username. Reading through the comments section on the campaign home page, the LH Labs forum and even the thread here on Head-fi would have revealed this information, but to each their own. If you're not willing to read about the project, then I definitely don't recommend contributing towards it. I just mentioned it as an option and certainly the HD800 inspires a LOT of different component choices.
> 
> Dale


 
  
 Dale - a couple of points of clarification.  First, I have been following the geek pulse thread actively for a while now and have even posted in it on a couple of occasions.  You must have missed that despite your focus on who is or is not doing their reading carefully.  In any event, I'm well aware of the LPS/4, the blue, the ir sensor, the x, the femto, the instant 1m, the active component upgrade, etc.  LH's marketing is intriguing, seductive and obviously _very_ successful.  In fact, they've succeeded in making you a financially interested part of their team, based on potential perks, for a product that does not yet exist.  What's more, your post 5 hours ago, no.6994, recommends this product in the hd800 thread without disclosing your personal financial interest in the funding hitting $1m.  That violates forum rules and, if memory serves, the laws of some countries.  As you candidly acknowledged in the pulse thread:
  


agentxxl said:


> Me too... I'm sharing it with everyone that I think might have the slightest interest, and a lot who simply don't care. But I'll admit it's for the mostly selfish reason that I too would like to have the best possible unit with the best sound as determined by Larry Ho - come on $1M mark and those 'active component' upgrades!
> 
> Dale


 
  
 Setting conflicts of interest aside, the tech specs are what I'm really interested in here.  I'm sure LH can design a solid LPS for a $400 msrp, but unless they are performing some miracle, beyond the reach of the engineers at TPA, one power supply in a _small_ fancy box is still not the equal of two independent supplies, each with their own torroidal transformer, respectively driving the es9018 dac board and output stages of a buffalo 3, plus three additional ultra low noise local shunt regulators (the tridents: http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/power/trident.aspx), which area _required_ for buffalo 3 builds.  Which dac do you honestly think has more highly regulated power?  
  
 I'm glad that LH is willing to consider implementing the amanero board as its usb input and intends to test it, but this is _18 month old _news on diyaudio.  If a well known, $80 outsourced board, popular with diy enthusiasts, is arguably better than LH's own usb solution, what does that say?  Again, I follow the threads, and that is precisely why I mentioned the amanero board above.  
  
 You will also note that LH generalizes about how, for example, the LPS uses "the notoriously good power supply technology inside *Da Vinci DAC*."  But then they go on to offer cap upgrades, active component upgrades etc.  So I guess it wasn't the same technology after all?  I'd truly love to know how similar these power supplies really are and what exactly they mean by "technology"...  I'm sure the pulse will sound very good at the end of the day, but the hype and claims of giant slaying, when the product doesn't physically exist, and when its tech details are still largely unknown, is a total fiction, at least for the time being.  That said, I'm actually rooting for you on the end result and truly do hope it turns out to be unparalleled at its price point - in which case, I will gladly eat my skepticism, and buy one.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

chinafbi said:


> I tried the Vali + Bifrost VS Lyr (Orange Globe) + Bifrost.   The Vali's sound is not clear.   The sound on the Lyr is very clear.  It is night and day different.  I'm sending my Vali back to Amazon.


 
  
 ah thanks for the comparison. I would figure the same thing. good thing I decided not to buy one


----------



## MickeyVee

Vali vs Lyr.. interesting, from memory, I thought the Vali was just as good with the HD800 but not having them side by side, it's hard to tell.  On the other hand, when I had the WA7 and Lyr, I found the WA7 a little smoother.  With the WA7 and Vali side by side, I found the Vali to be close with a smaller sound stage and a little less impact but would probably fail a side by side comparison.  Ergo, the Vali can play with the bigger boys at 1/4 to 1/8 of the cost. I'm keeping mine for around the house use. YMMV.


----------



## DutchGFX

I find the HD800 a bit bass light on my Burson FWIW in regards to this discussion. Just my $.02


----------



## maxipad

I love my set of Sennheiser HD800 headphones.  I have them hooked up to a little dot Mkiii with a gamma 2 DAC built by MisterX… I'm absolutely in love with them.  I didn't really like my K702, so this pair is what really got my excited about nice headphones.  I also have a beater pair of sony mdr-sa5000 but they don't compare.  I've been enjoying some tube rolling and I can say that the vostok, the tung sol, and the JHY-Hytrons are all great tubes for this pairing.  Mullard EF92s are alright, but kind of airy for my preference.


----------



## AgentXXL

skeptic said:


> > That said, I'm actually rooting for you on the end result and truly do hope it turns out to be unparalleled at its price point - in which case, I will gladly eat my skepticism, and buy one.


 
  
 I responded by PM as I don't want this thread going off-track and getting closed, like it did once before. If I have inadvertently violated forum rules, the moderators are welcome to ban me. It was not my intention. I just wanted to offer an option that was similar to the OPs discussion - even if they weren't interested. I firmly believe that the Pulse will become a well respected product once it leaves the prototype stage it's currently at, but it won't be for everybody. Nor is the current funding model that LH Labs has chosen.
  
 As for the technical details you mentioned (and/or lack of them on LH's part), I've discussed most of that in my PM. I'd be happy to post questions to the lead engineer on your behalf if you have any. As for me, I'll happily continue to use the DACs and amps that I currently own until the Pulse and LPS arrive. And then, if they don't meet my needs or work well with the HD800 in my listening environment, I'll be happy to share that result.
  
 Regardless, have a safe and happy holiday season for all! Drive safe!
  
 Dale


----------



## 62ohm

Hi guys, can you HD800 gurus help me out on the polling here http://www.head-fi.org/t/696721/which-of-these-tube-amps-would-be-best-to-pair-hd800




  
  
 Cheers


----------



## thegunner100

I'm having a mini meet at my house next weekend and someone is bringing a Concero, so I will see how it is paired with the hd800 and vali. There will also be a dna stratus and M7 in the house as well


----------



## DarKen23

Quote: 





62ohm said:


> Hi guys, can you HD800 gurus help me out on the polling here http://www.head-fi.org/t/696721/which-of-these-tube-amps-would-be-best-to-pair-hd800
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Fearless1

I cant say enough good things about the Fosgate Signature/HD800 pairing, it is like the amp was made for them.


----------



## 62ohm

Any info regarding Graham Slee Solo Ultralinear pairing with HD800? Cause I read somewhere that Graham Slee uses Sennheiser phones to test their amps (not sure which model).
  
  
 Cheers


----------



## magiccabbage

I only know one graham slee owner but he uses grado.


----------



## LugBug1

62ohm said:


> Any info regarding Graham Slee Solo Ultralinear pairing with HD800? Cause I read somewhere that Graham Slee uses Sennheiser phones to test their amps (not sure which model).
> 
> 
> Cheers


 
 I haven't heard it, but I think you can do better for the money these days. The lehmann amp (I have heard) is very similar apparently and so what you will get is a typical solid state sound with very low distortion and great neutrality. Boring.  This is just my 2 cents regarding these high priced SS amps. About 10 year ago they were all that there was and they were designed to work well with  HD600/650. The HD800 is much more transparent than those hp's and your choice of amp is of much more importance ime. The Solo and Lehmann will give you a great detailed, balanced and tight sound, but I feel that a good tube amp can give more satisfaction with the HD800's in regards to body, depth and atmosphere. Some of my vintage amps wipe the floor of the Lehmann in regards to pure engagement of music. Not as tight or detailed, but enjoyment of music is what its all about.


----------



## seb7

New HD800s arriving tomorrow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The wallet emptying continues...


----------



## philo50




----------



## magiccabbage

philo50 said:


>


 
 hahaha


----------



## DarKen23

philo50 said:


>


Lulz


----------



## rawrster

It looks my ride with the HD800 are over. These were my first TOTL headphones and boy were they good. However ever since getting Stax they haven't been used as often and it just doesn't make sense for something so expensive to just sit there in a box. I'll probably regret them at some point every now and then


----------



## Maxvla

Interesting turn of events Rawrster. I went from the 007 mk1 to the HD800 and have no regrets at all. The 007s to me just sound off, and have poor staging, and I wasn't looking forward to the $5-6k amp requirement to bring out their potential. They aren't as comfortable either.


----------



## rawrster

I kept both for probably a year or so but as time went on the HD800 got used less and less with almost no use in the last 6-7 months or so. I simplified my HD800 setup to just my Anedio D1 dac/amp (which I'm on the fence about selling or keeping to use with my ciem or get something smaller that isn't overkill). The SR007 isn't for everyone and I feel like I haven't brought out it's full potential but it's good enough to use 99% of the time when I'm at home. It's not a knock against the HD800 which I still consider #1 among current headphones that are not Stax. I considered sending these to colorware to all black but it never happened.
  
 My preferences have changed slightly as well to balanced with a bit of warmth which could have contributed to this. However with the SR007 I feel like I've found my end game.


----------



## magiccabbage

Interesting move rawrster, do the 007's have more meat on the bone compared to the HD800's?


----------



## rawrster

They do have different signatures but in a nutshell the HD800 is more neutral with more precision and the O2 is better balanced with more warmth. Over time I ended up enjoying the O2 more as it is a slightly more relaxed sound. This is what I wanted the LCD2 to sound like but with more highs and not as much bass would be the best headphone example I can think of in terms of sound signature.


----------



## koiloco

Well, count me in.  My HD800 will arrive next week.  This will be it for me in this interesting hobby.  I won't sink anymore $ into HP/Amp/DAC.
 You can say that I am at "end game" and very content.


----------



## thegunner100

koiloco said:


> Well, count me in.  My HD800 will arrive next week.  This will be it for me in this interesting hobby.  I won't sink anymore $ into HP/Amp/DAC.
> You can say that I am at "end game" and very content.


 

 That's what we all say... and then we find out that we have synergy problems with our gear and start buying stuff again. Oh, and of course... those new products are tempting!


----------



## koiloco

thegunner100 said:


> That's what we all say... and then we find out that we have synergy problems with our gear and start buying stuff again. Oh, and of course... those new products are tempting!


 
 Fortunately, synergy problems, I won't have to deal with cuz I already tried HD800 on my current setup before deciding to purchase.  You are correct about new products, though.  Self control, you must...


----------



## screwdriver

hard decision for me - hd800 or lcd - 3 . i already have the hd650.


----------



## pdrm360

screwdriver said:


> hard decision for me - hd800 or lcd - 3 . i already have the hd650.


 
  
 It seems easy to me, HD800 (comfort, price, and a good pair with HD650)


----------



## koiloco

pdrm360 said:


> It seems easy to me, HD800


 
 Not because I just bought one that I agree with pdrm360.  I went through the same decision making process.  I tried both LCD3 and HD800.  I decided to go with HD800.


----------



## P+D-MI

Still loving my HD800 after four years with DNA Sonett. Excellent synergy.


----------



## BleaK

p+d-mi said:


> Still loving my HD800 after four years with DNA Sonett. Excellent synergy.


 
  
 Great to hear that you can find synergy and good equipment that is "old". We are very focused on getting "the new" and "better" gear all the time, while some "older" gear don't get too much attention even though they sound very good (and sometimes even better) than the new stuff.


----------



## RUMAY408

koiloco said:


> Well, count me in.  My HD800 will arrive next week.  This will be it for me in this interesting hobby.  I won't sink anymore $ into HP/Amp/DAC.
> You can say that I am at "end game" and very content.


 
 I think I said that a few thousand $ ago


----------



## koiloco

rumay408 said:


> I think I said that a few thousand $ ago


 
 You are not helping me with "self - control" issue.


----------



## Jd007

screwdriver said:


> hard decision for me - hd800 or lcd - 3 . i already have the hd650.


 
 why not both? ignore your wallet, put them on your credit card and worry later


----------



## screwdriver

i have been thinking about that .......


----------



## koiloco

jd007 said:


> why not both? ignore your wallet, put them on your credit card and worry later


 
 Worst advise ever.  I like it.


----------



## bearFNF

koiloco said:


> You are not helping me with "self - control" issue.


 

 Sure they are...control yourself into buying more gear...


----------



## Toxic Cables

Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread, but thought this might be of interest to some here.
  
 For those interested in making their own HD800 cables, we have reduced the price on our custom made HD800 connectors that we designed and had made over a year ago.
  
 Price per pair will be just £20. This is nearly half the price of what you can expect to pay elsewhere.
  
 This is the larger HD800 connector that we had made for our 18AWG cables. Picture below shows them next to some of the other HD800 connectors on the market and a smaller size of our own.
  
 We also have a selection of 18AWG wires, also smaller diameter and anything else you might require to build your own cable.
  
 For those not comfortable with soldering on to those tiny pins, i can do this part for you at no extra cost.
  
 Shipping for any order is £3.50 UK and £12 international, with tracking and insurance. We also try any make sure that our international customers don't have to pay any further import charges 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Please PM me, should you wish to place an order.
  
 
  
 vv We did respond to your email on placing an order and got no reply back.
  
 It's up to you if you purchase from me or not, so let's not derail this thread


----------



## BournePerfect

toxic cables said:


> Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread, but thought this might be of interest to some here.
> 
> For those interested in making their own HD800 cables, we have reduced the price on our custom made HD800 connectors that we designed and had made over a year ago.
> 
> ...


 
  
 No thanks. I emailed you guys a number of times months ago to try to purchase/preorder a cable-and never received a response after maybe 3-4 emails. Fool me thrice...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 -Daniel


----------



## wink

Hey, Sennheiser, how come you don't respond to my emails asking for a loaner of your new flagship demonstrator electrostatic headphone to replace the Orpheus you are releasing next year?
  
 I've checked my junk mail and there's no response from you.
  
 I am deeply disappointed with your lack of response.
  
 Just because I live literally on the other side of the world from Germany should not have any bearing in this age of fast and economical world shipping of goods, merchandise and chattels.
  
 I await your answer by email or pm on this forum  with bated breath and eager anticipation.    Please don't spoil the end of a great year by your continued lack of communication.


----------



## Maxvla

CES is just around the corner and that is when Senn tends to release new stuff. They have discounted the HD700 and others, so perhaps there will be something new, though I doubt it will be an Orpheus successor


----------



## BournePerfect

wink said:


> Hey, Sennheiser, how come you don't respond to my emails asking for a loaner of your new flagship demonstrator electrostatic headphone to replace the Orpheus you are releasing next year?
> 
> I've checked my junk mail and there's no response from you.
> 
> ...


 
 Fail. Wrong context all around. You're usually better than this.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## wink

Usually better?       I thought that was my best post this fast fading year.........
  
 Just goes to show - humour as well as hearing is a very subjective sense.


----------



## DarKen23

wink said:


> Usually better?       I thought that was my best post this fast fading year.........
> 
> Just goes to show - humour as well as hearing is a very subjective sense.


----------



## brunk

Just want to let you guys know my HD-800 with balanced cable is up for sale


----------



## DarKen23

brunk said:


> Just want to let you guys know my HD-800 with balanced cable is up for sale


 
 Lol, as was mine. Good luck with the sales.


----------



## Amictus

I didn't think that anyone sold an HD800.


----------



## BournePerfect

Just those that haven't fed it properly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 -Daniel


----------



## longbowbbs

bourneperfect said:


> Just those that haven't fed it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1.....Then they buy it back later....
  
 BTW, while I wait for a replacement tube on my Cary I am slumming with my venerable Denon AVR-5800 in 2-channel. I never used the HP on it way back when. It is really nice with the 800's. Way better than I expected. Granted it is a $3800 amp!


----------



## BournePerfect

Cool! What's the output impedance on that?
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Rayzilla

I hope to be joining this friendly group very soon. I started a thread to ask for some advice based on my circumstances. Not to derail this thread, I hoe some of you can give me some guidance. Thanks and I'm looking forward to contributing in this thread in the near future. 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/697507/search-for-an-amp-to-pair-with-hd800-please-help/0_20#post_10112769


----------



## Sorrodje

Short Xmas Story :
  
 I thought myself about selling my HD800 a few days ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .. Hard times and I need money for the next future monthes beacause my wife won't have any income during this period... I loaned my HD800 to a friend of mine but he finally choosed a Stax combo and gave me back My Senn. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . i've ever bought a HD580 to replace the 800.
  
 So, i called another guy who was really interested. We had a deal and I pulled out the HD800 out of its box in order to take pics to send to the buyer.... But I made THE mistake: the headphone was there on my desk so... I plugged it and listened to music while I was uploading pics. 
  
 One hour later I called the buyer and told him I really can't sell it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   HD580 is ready to be sold. 
  
 End of this Xmas Story


----------



## TheDuke990

Nice story 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  and good decision !


----------



## longbowbbs

bourneperfect said:


> Cool! What's the output impedance on that?
> 
> -Daniel


 
 I cannot find any value for it Daniel. The manual does not list it and nothing turns up on my net searches. It does have Dolby HP. It generally sounds pretty good, but it does not have the fullness I am used to with either the Cary or the Decware. Interesting that the bass for my Vandersteen's is really something. Probably due to 200 watts vs 40 for the Cary. To me the Cary has more character and bloom vs the speed of the SS Denon. I am enjoying the variety but I'll be glad when my new tubes come in.


----------



## LugBug1

brunk said:


> Just want to let you guys know my HD-800 with balanced cable is up for sale


 
  
  


darken23 said:


> Lol, as was mine. Good luck with the sales.


 
 Absolute madness. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Suppose there's no accounting for taste...


----------



## BournePerfect

Apparently the $100 Wire didn't tap the Senns potential Brunk? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 In other news, the Vali's bass just _thumps_ with the HD800 at times.what a great little monster amp for it's price-probably sneaking it the top 5 amps for the HD800 that I've owned-cost no object either. ZDSE, P1u, Bryston, Vali/m-Stage is my quick five second order...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## LugBug1

bourneperfect said:


> Apparently the $100 Wire didn't tap the Senns potential Brunk?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hmmm next pay day..


----------



## BournePerfect

lugbug1 said:


> Hmmm next pay day..


 
  
 For what-the Vali? I was just telling Cradon via PM that the Vali reminds me  a lot of the WA5LE w/tube upgrades w/ the HD800. The Woo is more transparent, but they seem to have similar sonics imo: thumping rounded bass, 'big' upfront sound, nice highs that are still somewhat sibilant. And yes, I took the Woo into consideration while making the above list. :O
  
 -Daniel


----------



## brunk

bourneperfect said:


> Apparently the Wire didn't tap the Senns potential Brunk?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 No, The Wire BAL-BAL is an absolute monster amp for the HD-800. I just no longer prefer their sound signature. Matter of fact, I don't think there's a much better option than a fully balanced wire amp regardless of price. Exceptions would be some tube amps to tailor your flavor of course. My HD-800 is still up for sale guys! I also have an 8ft. balanced extension cable available if you like to move around


----------



## thegunner100

bourneperfect said:


> For what-the Vali? I was just telling Cradon via PM that the Vali reminds me  a lot of the WA5LE w/tube upgrades w/ the HD800. The Woo is more transparent, but they seem to have similar sonics imo: thumping rounded bass, 'big' upfront sound, nice highs that are still somewhat sibilant. And yes, I took the Woo into consideration while making the above list. :O
> 
> -Daniel


 

 I'm having Cradon come over to my house for a mini meet... Looking forward to trying his DNA Stratus again! Last time his M7 wasn't playing nicely with my surface pro, so I couldn't use my own music. He was pretty impressed by the Vali though


----------



## LugBug1

bourneperfect said:


> For what-the Vali? I was just telling Cradon via PM that the Vali reminds me  a lot of the WA5LE w/tube upgrades w/ the HD800. The Woo is more transparent, but they seem to have similar sonics imo: thumping rounded bass, 'big' upfront sound, nice highs that are still somewhat sibilant. And yes, I took the Woo into consideration while making the above list. :O
> 
> -Daniel


 
 Yeah the Vali. I'm gona see if it can compete with my better vintage amps at the mo  For the price its a no brainer!


----------



## BournePerfect

brunk said:


> No, The Wire BAL-BAL is an absolute monster amp for the HD-800. I just no longer prefer their sound signature. Matter of fact, I don't think there's a much better option than a fully balanced wire amp regardless of price. Exceptions would be some tube amps to tailor your flavor of course. My HD-800 is still up for sale guys! I also have an 8ft. balanced extension cable available if you like to move around


 
  
 I thought you didn't get the balanced one?? Either way-do you have impressions anywhere?


thegunner100 said:


> I'm having Cradon come over to my house for a mini meet... Looking forward to trying his DNA Stratus again! Last time his M7 wasn't playing nicely with my surface pro, so I couldn't use my own music. He was pretty impressed by the Vali though


 
  
 Looking forward to your impressions...the Stratus seems to be all the rage for the HD800, I'm sure you guys will have a blast!
  


lugbug1 said:


> Yeah the Vali. I'm gona see if it can compete with my better vintage amps at the mo  For the price its a no brainer!


 
 Nice-I wish I still had an m-Stage to compare side by side. I think I still might prefer it's warmer sig with the Senn overall, although they are both ridiculously good at their pricepoints. I might just give the m-Stage HPA-2 a shot in the near future-John's preliminary reports seem to indicate it's better than the original.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## brunk

bourneperfect said:


> I thought you didn't get the balanced one?? Either way-do you have impressions anywhere?
> 
> -Daniel


 
 Yeah I built a balanced one. This amp is seriously good. You don't even realize it's powered on, dead quiet. There is no shortage of power, approx. 7W into 100 ohms, and I can't even measure the output impedance with a standard DMM. Music is effortless, airy, and is the most transparent headphone amp I have never heard lol! I am currently using it with just the DA8's preamp output, but I can tell it deserves more. I wouldn't hesitate to put this in front of a much costlier DAC. Bass is also incredible, but it has no bloom, so what you get is exactly what your DAC is capable of. It really is a gem, and I can't believe no one else around here hasn't thought of getting this amp. It's also quite small, and I am wanting to put either a Khozmo or Alps quad pot inside the box. If I was to sum up this amp in one word it would be "pure".
  
 Best,
 Brunk


----------



## BournePerfect

brunk said:


> Yeah I built a balanced one. This amp is seriously good. You don't even realize it's powered on, dead quiet. There is no shortage of power, approx. 7W into 100 ohms, and I can't even measure the output impedance with a standard DMM. Music is effortless, airy, and is the most transparent headphone amp I have never heard lol! I am currently using it with just the DA8's preamp output, but I can tell it deserves more. I wouldn't hesitate to put this in front of a much costlier DAC. Bass is also incredible, but it has no bloom, so what you get is exactly what your DAC is capable of. It really is a gem, and I can't believe no one else around here hasn't thought of getting this amp. It's also quite small, and I am wanting to put either a Khozmo or Alps quad pot inside the box. If I was to sum up this amp in one word it would be "pure".
> 
> Best,
> Brunk


 
 Ok I'll take it. How much?  My diy skills would be terrible I bet so I have haven't pulled the trigger. Anyone sell them prebuilt?
  
 -Daniel


----------



## brunk

bourneperfect said:


> Ok I'll take it. How much?  My diy skills would be terrible I bet so I have haven't pulled the trigger. Anyone sell them prebuilt?
> 
> -Daniel


 
 I can definitely build one for you  Just send me a PM with options you want and I'll shoot you a quote. Unity gain or higher? I recommend unity gain for HD-800. Dual Mono PSU? 7N Silver UP-OCC Wire? Volume Pot and what brand/type? Again I recommend without, so you can put a high-end pre in front of it, your call. What kind of case/color do you desire? Is a Hammond box, or Chinese headphone amp box acceptable, or do you want something nicer? 
  
 Best,
 Brunk


----------



## DarKen23

brunk said:


> bourneperfect said:
> 
> 
> > Ok I'll take it. How much?  My diy skills would be terrible I bet so I have haven't pulled the trigger. Anyone sell them prebuilt?
> ...


 
 Altoids metal box for heat sink properties.


----------



## brunk

darken23 said:


> Altoids metal box for heat sink properties.


 
 Lol, do they make those in extra-large?


----------



## kvtaco17

brunk said:


> Lol, do they make those in extra-large?


 
  
  


darken23 said:


> Altoids metal box for heat sink properties.


 
  
 Stretch the can!


----------



## bearFNF

kvtaco17 said:


> Stretch the can!


 
 or use this (even has lid color options):
 http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/p/lunchbots-uno-stainless-lunch-container-stainless-lid-1-container/1y-1005?sourceType=sc&source=PG&cm_mmc=PriceGrabber-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA&utm_source=PriceGrabber&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=Lunchbots&utm_content=1Y-1005&mr:referralID=add814ea-71a7-11e3-beb7-001b2166c2c0#.UsH9pv-A3mE


----------



## kvtaco17

bearfnf said:


> or use this (even has lid color options):
> http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/p/lunchbots-uno-stainless-lunch-container-stainless-lid-1-container/1y-1005?sourceType=sc&source=PG&cm_mmc=PriceGrabber-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA&utm_source=PriceGrabber&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=Lunchbots&utm_content=1Y-1005&mr:referralID=add814ea-71a7-11e3-beb7-001b2166c2c0#.UsH9pv-A3mE


 
 OMG BEST IDEA EVER.... a Spiderman lunchbox!


----------



## koiloco

Just welcome my HD800 home today.  It will be long nights for a few days...  I'll re-terminate the cable in 4 pin XLR when the plug comes in.


----------



## BournePerfect

PM'd Brunk.
  
 I wish someone still made those old Altoid cmoy tube amps I saw floating around years ago. Super cute.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## bearFNF

kvtaco17 said:


> OMG BEST IDEA EVER.... a Spiderman lunchbox!


 

 I just noticed they have one with dividers inside it:
 http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/p/lunchbots-duo-stainless-steel-lunch-container-orange-1-container/1y-1003#.UsIA_P-A3mE
 and another one that is insulated!!!!
 http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/p/lunchbots-thermal-stainless-insulated-container-dark-blue-1-container/1y-1008#.UsIA7f-A3mE


----------



## Sanlitun

I think I have finally gained some ground in my love hate HD800 relationship. Finally got my Furutech iHP-35Hx cables for my HD800. There were a few postings on these here some months back and ever since seeing the pics I had been very curious. I finally managed to track down a North American supplier (Parts Connexion) and even managed to get a discount.
  
 I gather the stock cables are quite silver in composition and changing them out has been a positive change so far. The high end glassiness and harshness is gone and there is much more mid detail as opposed to the detail being all in the highs before. Great looking cables, although not in the fancy braided audiophile style and the 1.3M length is just right for me. This is literally the first time I have even toe tapped with the HD800. Pretty pleased with these so far.


----------



## palmfish

The stock cable is OFC...not that it makes a difference.
  
 At least you're happy; that's what matters!


----------



## James-uk

Palmfish . Thank you. That is all.


----------



## skeptic

brunk said:


> Yeah I built a balanced one. This amp is seriously good. You don't even realize it's powered on, dead quiet. There is no shortage of power, approx. 7W into 100 ohms, and I can't even measure the output impedance with a standard DMM. Music is effortless, airy, and is the most transparent headphone amp I have never heard lol! I am currently using it with just the DA8's preamp output, but I can tell it deserves more. I wouldn't hesitate to put this in front of a much costlier DAC. Bass is also incredible, but it has no bloom, so what you get is exactly what your DAC is capable of. It really is a gem, and I can't believe no one else around here hasn't thought of getting this amp. It's also quite small, and I am wanting to put either a Khozmo or Alps quad pot inside the box. If I was to sum up this amp in one word it would be "pure".
> 
> Best,
> Brunk




Congrats on the successful build brunk! I was wondering when you were going to resurface to share some impressions! Figured you must be too busy enjoying the music. What are your primary phones going to be now? 

My boards are still sitting in their envelopes - going to have to get it in gear one of these days and check to see whether all the parts are available again. Here's hoping the se se version sounds akin to the bal bal.


----------



## DarKen23

sanlitun said:


> I think I have finally gained some ground in my love hate HD800 relationship. Finally got my Furutech iHP-35Hx cables for my HD800. There were a few postings on these here some months back and ever since seeing the pics I had been very curious. I finally managed to track down a North American supplier (Parts Connexion) and even managed to get a discount.
> 
> I gather the stock cables are quite silver in composition and changing them out has been a positive change so far. The high end glassiness and harshness is gone and there is much more mid detail as opposed to the detail being all in the highs before. Great looking cables, although not in the fancy braided audiophile style and the 1.3M length is just right for me. This is literally the first time I have even toe tapped with the HD800. Pretty pleased with these so far.


It's more than likely that your mind is doing a great deal on this sonic change. Maybe the cables did make a change slightly, but generally it doesn't make that big of a difference. It's so small that even on some days you'll find the stock cables sound exactly the same and or even slightly better. The mind is a very powerful thing.


----------



## brunk

skeptic said:


> Congrats on the successful build brunk! I was wondering when you were going to resurface to share some impressions! Figured you must be too busy enjoying the music. What are your primary phones going to be now?
> 
> My boards are still sitting in their envelopes - going to have to get it in gear one of these days and check to see whether all the parts are available again. Here's hoping the se se version sounds akin to the bal bal.


 
 Yeah, I had some stuff to re-order (first-time build woes) but it got it straightened out. My primaries will be the HE-6, and HE-500 as secondary. I am not sure if I will get another headphone in the near future because I am quite pleased with what I have already. Plus, a lot of listening now is with my horns....dat magic midrange! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If anything, I am going to get a NOS DAC and mod it real good. I am super interested in the BottleHead DAC too though.
  
 Good luck with your build as well.


----------



## MickeyVee

Let me know what you think. (edit: re-read your post - my findings also - I got the 3M) When I did some research here it was poo-pooed. Got it (anyway) at TAVES from Charles @ Headfone Shop.  I also have a Q cable but use iHP the most of the time.  Saving the Q for the LCD-X.  It is a beautiful cable. This should be stock with the HD800
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
 Quote:


sanlitun said:


> I think I have finally gained some ground in my love hate HD800 relationship. Finally got my Furutech iHP-35Hx cables for my HD800. There were a few postings on these here some months back and ever since seeing the pics I had been very curious. I finally managed to track down a North American supplier (Parts Connexion) and even managed to get a discount.


----------



## magiccabbage

brunk said:


> Yeah, I had some stuff to re-order (first-time build woes) but it got it straightened out. My primaries will be the HE-6, and HE-500 as secondary. I am not sure if I will get another headphone in the near future because I am quite pleased with what I have already. Plus, a lot of listening now is with my horns....dat magic midrange!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What was it that you built? I am starting building this year as well. I'm thinking of starting with the RJM Audio Sapphire and moving on to other things from there.


----------



## macbob713

I finally bit the bulitt and ordered the hdvd800, which arrives tomorrow. Should be a fun way to see in the new year.


----------



## preproman

brunk said:


>


 
  
 B,
  
 Ever thought about building a super symmetry Dynahi?


----------



## 7ryder

brunk said:


> Yeah, I had some stuff to re-order (first-time build woes) but it got it straightened out. My primaries will be the HE-6, and HE-500 as secondary. I am not sure if I will get another headphone in the near future because I am quite pleased with what I have already. Plus, a lot of listening now is with my horns....dat magic midrange!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 this one of the horns you're talking about?


----------



## brunk

magiccabbage said:


> What was it that you built? I am starting building this year as well. I'm thinking of starting with the RJM Audio Sapphire and moving on to other things from there.


 
 I mentioned "The Wire BAL-BAL" earlier. I can also build one for anybody interested, with many different options.
  


preproman said:


> B,
> 
> Ever thought about building a super symmetry Dynahi?


 
 Yeah I have thought about it some time ago, but I can't remember if some parts were unobtanium or not...
  


7ryder said:


> this one of the horns you're talking about?


 
 Hah! Now that is a big horn  Does that thing play down to 3hz or something? lol!


----------



## LugBug1

koiloco said:


> Just welcome my HD800 home today.  It will be long nights for a few days...  I'll re-terminate the cable in 4 pin XLR when the plug comes in.


 
 Looking good, congrats!


----------



## LugBug1

brunk said:


> Yeah, I had some stuff to re-order (first-time build woes) but it got it straightened out. My primaries will be the HE-6, and HE-500 as secondary. I am not sure if I will get another headphone in the near future because I am quite pleased with what I have already. Plus, a lot of listening now is with my horns....dat magic midrange!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 How about implementing a Philips TDA1541a? Still a remarkable chip if you like a more analogue sound. 
  
 I'm not surprised that you're happy with the Hifimans. They are the second best dynamic out there after all  But seriously, you should maybe look into vintage amps to power your planars. They can work surprisingly well  And because you are a bit handy with a solder iron you could make a lot of investment!


----------



## brunk

lugbug1 said:


> How about implementing a Philips TDA1541a? Still a remarkable chip if you like a more analogue sound.
> 
> I'm not surprised that you're happy with the Hifimans. They are the second best dynamic out there after all  But seriously, you should maybe look into vintage amps to power your planars. They can work surprisingly well  And because you are a bit handy with a solder iron you could make a lot of investment!


 
 Yeah I am currently looking at a TeraDak Chameleon that uses 16x TDA1543. If i were to get it, I would update the power regulation, try to implement an Amanero USB, upgrade caps and perhaps put in a toroid. I need to investigate the I2S further to verify it can accommodate the Amanero board though, then I am all in 
  
 I'm still looking at some Vintage, but truth be told, there is almost zero benefit to getting one these days unless I find one in a dumpster lol. They have become overpriced now IMO. Granted, there are some topologies that are worth the money, but at what cost of money/time to restore vs. something I can just build myself brand new? Decisions...
  
 I suppose you could say "but it's like restoring an old muscle car", yeah sure, I can totally understand the satisfaction of doing that.


----------



## LugBug1

brunk said:


> Yeah I am currently looking at a TeraDak Chameleon that uses 16x TDA1543. If i were to get it, I would update the power regulation, try to implement an Amanero USB, upgrade caps and perhaps put in a toroid. I need to investigate the I2S further to verify it can accommodate the Amanero board though, then I am all in
> 
> I'm still looking at some Vintage, but truth be told, there is almost zero benefit to getting one these days unless I find one in a dumpster lol. They have become overpriced now IMO. Granted, there are some topologies that are worth the money, but at what cost of money/time to restore vs. something I can just build myself brand new? Decisions...
> 
> I suppose you could say "but it's like restoring an old muscle car", yeah sure, I can totally understand the satisfaction of doing that.


 
 I used to own a Dac ah Lite that used 8x TDA1543. Standard it had amazing bass but was edgy on the treble. IMO the TDA1541a is a different beast.  You could maybe dismantle an old philips cd player and rehouse the dac section with a toroidal transformer etc. Would it be as easy as that..? I'm no good at electronics, but you become familiar with certain chips etc. I use an Arcam black box (TDA1541a) sometimes and it works really well with a neutral amp. Big warm spacious sound.


----------



## silversurfer616

Had the HD800 for a year and sold them 4 weeks ago.Don't miss them as I needed something else.
As good as they were there was something about them I couldn't get used to.
It is hard to find words for it but it reminded me of tromp 'oeil wall paintings.Mine had lots of bass and a really meaty sound with the Crack or my vintage Pioneer SX1010 but I always had the impression it was a wafer thin illusion of it.Like a tromp l'oeil!
So goodbye to this entertaining thread and happy 2014.


----------



## LugBug1

^^Another one who has under-amped em... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I Joke! Good luck with your next voyage bud


----------



## magiccabbage

lugbug1 said:


> ^^Another one who has under-amped em...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 maybe your right


----------



## Sanlitun

darken23 said:


> It's more than likely that your mind is doing a great deal on this sonic change. Maybe the cables did make a change slightly, but generally it doesn't make that big of a difference. It's so small that even on some days you'll find the stock cables sound exactly the same and or even slightly better. The mind is a very powerful thing.


 
  
 It's certainly not a fundamental difference, but there is enough of a change that the indefinably irritating character that I sometimes get from the HD800 is tamed a bit. It just sounds a little more correct, and less affected.
  
 I have no idea what the stock cables are made from, but they certainly seem to have a little bit of a thinner quality in terms of sound, more like a telephone line sort of sound. I know that my rig is a little bit bright for the HD800 so maybe it is something that stands out more for me.
  
 I am supposed to soon receive the well reviewed Questyle CMA 800R and I hope it will have a different treble quality. I will shoot it out against the Burson and sell the loser.


----------



## koiloco

I am not one who believes in cable magic when it comes to HPs cuz I can't hear the differences.  Other people who have spent $ on upgraded cables of course could tell and appreciate the improvements.  My ears are just not that good.
 In pro-audio, when I used to run speaker cable/snakes that are hundred feet long, cable quality/gauge do make obvious difference.


----------



## LugBug1

I used to be able to tell the difference in hp cables, but now I can't. I think it came down to not caring anymore... Seriously, when you buy an upgrade cable you want it to sound better. But if you don't care, it doesn't sound any different. That can't be said of changing other components and the differences IME.  
  
 Anyways guys the Currawong's don't like cable talk... Even if we do, just saying.


----------



## magiccabbage

lugbug1 said:


> I used to be able to tell the difference in hp cables, but now I can't. I think it came down to not caring anymore... Seriously, when you buy an upgrade cable you want it to sound better. But if you don't care, it doesn't sound any different. That can't be said of changing other components and the differences IME.
> 
> Anyways guys the Currawong's don't like cable talk... Even if we do, just saying.


 
 i just got my ears syringed today by the doctor - made a huge difference to my listening session today - more than any rig component!


----------



## LugBug1

magiccabbage said:


> i just got my ears syringed today by the doctor - made a huge difference to my listening session today - more than any rig component!


 
 Thats something I've never had done.  My dad loves getting it done... I can't stand the thought of it. I rarely get wax in my ears though. There's never any when I stick my finger in anyways... Yuk!


----------



## DarKen23

lugbug1 said:


> magiccabbage said:
> 
> 
> > i just got my ears syringed today by the doctor - made a huge difference to my listening session today - more than any rig component!
> ...


 
 Could it be possible that your fingers are too stubby to fit in the ear? You shouldnt let it build up like that. I use a Q-Tip once every 2 days, habit I suppose.


----------



## longbowbbs

darken23 said:


> lugbug1 said:
> 
> 
> > magiccabbage said:
> ...


 
 The older you get the more wax builds up....Another thing to look forward to....


----------



## Rayzilla

magiccabbage said:


> i just got my ears syringed today by the doctor - made a huge difference to my listening session today - more than any rig component!




That sounds like the ultimate mod. lol

Is that where they squirt water into your ear, let it sit for a minute and then let it flow out? I bought one of those 'use at home' bottles that contains seawater or something like that.


----------



## DarKen23

rayzilla said:


> magiccabbage said:
> 
> 
> > i just got my ears syringed today by the doctor - made a huge difference to my listening session today - more than any rig component!
> ...


----------



## Sonido

I recently got the HD800. Been listening for a while now. I know a lot depends on your chain and what amp you're using, but I have a question on the subject of the HD800 being described as analytical, lacking euphony, lifeless, doesn't have musicality, etc. Would you guys say that statement has been greatly exaggerated, or is spot on? Assume a very neutral DAC and amp that just puts out the sound of the HD800 without adding sounds from the chain. If this is true, how easy would you guys say it is to make the HD800 sound euphonic and musical? Would it require a very expensive amp? Or does the HD800 never really lose that sense of analytical or lifelessness, regardless of what your chain is?


----------



## koiloco

sonido said:


> I recently got the HD800. Been listening for a while now. I know a lot depends on your chain and what amp you're using, but I have a question on the subject of the HD800 being described as analytical, lacking euphony, lifeless, doesn't have musicality, etc. Would you guys say that statement has been greatly exaggerated, or is spot on? Assume a very neutral DAC and amp that just puts out the sound of the HD800 without adding sounds from the chain. If this is true, how easy would you guys say it is to make the HD800 sound euphonic and musical? Would it require a very expensive amp? Or does the HD800 never really lose that sense of analytical or lifelessness, regardless of what your chain is?


 
 Happy new year!  Just got back from a new year party.  
  
 I think "lifeless", at least for me, is a relative term.  The term has to be put in context and described in relation to other known HPs.  In my case, it's the HE500.  For other people, it could be T1 and maybe different top end HPs.  Taken out of this context, the terms "lifeless", "cold", "analytical" will not make much sense.  Also, it will totally depend on personal preference.  Some of us might prefer HD800 exactly the way it sounds and there's no need to warm/lush it up in anyway.  Some of us will change every single component in the chain to somewhat alter HD800 to his/her liking.  For me,  I bought the HD800 already knowing/accepting the way it would sound with my current chain.  I bought it to complement what I already have (HE500), not to have another HP just like the HE500.


----------



## DarKen23

sonido said:


> I recently got the HD800. Been listening for a while now. I know a lot depends on your chain and what amp you're using, but I have a question on the subject of the HD800 being described as analytical, lacking euphony, lifeless, doesn't have musicality, etc. Would you guys say that statement has been greatly exaggerated, or is spot on? Assume a very neutral DAC and amp that just puts out the sound of the HD800 without adding sounds from the chain. If this is true, how easy would you guys say it is to make the HD800 sound euphonic and musical? Would it require a very expensive amp? Or does the HD800 never really lose that sense of analytical or lifelessness, regardless of what your chain is?


 
 Id say the HD800 are quite amp picky, they can exhibit what youve described. Im assuming thats the reason the HD800 and tubes are talked in relation so much here. I think I may have had an amp that was borderline analytical, the Mjolnir. While it provided a very fast and thin sound, it wasnt unbearable and quite musical. I aimed for a amp with a warm signature, my pioneer receiver and the yulong A18 did a excellent job with the HD800. 
  
 Imo, the dac is just as if not more important as an amp.


----------



## koiloco

darken23 said:


> Id say the HD800 are quite amp picky, they can exhibit what youve described. Im assuming thats the reason the HD800 and tubes are talked in relation so much here. I think I may have had an amp that was borderline analytical, the Mjolnir. While it provided a very fast and thin sound, it wasnt unbearable and quite musical. I aimed for a amp with a warm signature, my pioneer receiver and the yulong A18 did a excellent job with the HD800.
> 
> *Imo, the dac is just as if not more important as an amp.*


 
 Most of all, good source music.  I've tried a few of my red book tracks again since yesterday.  Let's just say "not too enjoyable".  95% of my HD, lossless library sounds good with my current chain.


----------



## Sonido

koiloco said:


> Happy new year!  Just got back from a new year party.
> 
> I think "lifeless", at least for me, is a relative term.  The term has to be put in context and described in relation to other known HPs.  In my case, it's the HE500.  For other people, it could be T1 and maybe different top end HPs.  Taken out of this context, the terms "lifeless", "cold", "analytical" will not make much sense.  Also, it will totally depend on personal preference.  Some of us might prefer HD800 exactly the way it sounds and there's no need to warm/lush it up in anyway.  Some of us will change every single component in the chain to somewhat alter HD800 to his/her liking.  For me,  I bought the HD800 already knowing/accepting the way it would sound with my current chain.  I bought it to complement what I already have (HE500), not to have another HP just like the HE500.


 

 Sure, context is very important. I have a proposition for comparing the euphony of the HD800 to other headphones. So let's use a percentile system, comparing to all other respectable headphones, from mid-fi to summit-fi. So anything from M50 and onwards. No consumer headphones. Assume each headphone is being put through a system where no sound signature of the chain is added, so we're just comparing stock sound of the headphones here. Also assume every headphone is properly driven with the appropriate power requirements. Now that we've establish a large set of respectable headphones and parameters, let's try to get a percentile number on euphony and musicality for the stock sound of the HD800. Would you consider it top half or bottom half? The way it has been described, I get the idea it's bottom 10%ile on this rating system. Now if you were allowed to add a chain that brings out the most musicality out of the HD800, and let's keep all other headphones with their stock sound, so they don't get the benefit of a chain optimized for euphony. So what percentile is the HD800 on that scale now? Does the HD800 have the technical feasibility to break into the top 25%ile even with the most ideal setup for euphony, and still comparing to other headphones with their stock sound? Even if one optimizes the HD800 for musicality and euphony, could it be on par to headphones that have a general consensus of being euphonic at their stock sound?


----------



## pdrm360

koiloco said:


> Happy new year!  Just got back from a new year party.
> 
> I think "lifeless", at least for me, is a relative term.  The term has to be put in context and described in relation to other known HPs.  In my case, it's the HE500.  For other people, *it could be T1* and maybe different top end HPs.  Taken out of this context, the terms "lifeless", "cold", "analytical" will not make much sense.  Also, it will totally depend on personal preference.  Some of us might prefer HD800 exactly the way it sounds and there's no need to warm/lush it up in anyway.  Some of us will change every single component in the chain to somewhat alter HD800 to his/her liking.  For me,  I bought the HD800 already knowing/accepting the way it would sound with my current chain.  I bought it to complement what I already have (HE500), not to have another HP just like the HE500.


 
  
 Just wanted to add that the T1 is an amazing pair with the HD800.
  
 Happy new year!


----------



## Rayzilla

sonido said:


> ... but I have a question on the subject of the HD800 being described as analytical, lacking euphony, lifeless, doesn't have musicality, etc. Would you guys say that statement has been greatly exaggerated, or is spot on? Assume a very neutral DAC and amp that just puts out the sound of the HD800 without adding sounds from the chain. If this is true, how easy would you guys say it is to make the HD800 sound euphonic and musical? Would it require a very expensive amp? Or does the HD800 never really lose that sense of analytical or lifelessness, regardless of what your chain is?







koiloco said:


> ... I think "lifeless", at least for me, is a relative term.  The term has to be put in context and described in relation to other known HPs. ...  For me,  I bought the HD800 already knowing/accepting the way it would sound with my current chain.  I bought it to complement what I already have (HE500), not to have another HP just like the HE500.







darken23 said:


> Id say the HD800 are quite amp picky, they can exhibit what youve described. Im assuming thats the reason the HD800 and tubes are talked in relation so much...







sonido said:


> Sure, context is very important. I have a proposition for comparing the euphony of the HD800 to other headphones. So let's use a percentile system...




This is an interesting discussion and one that I have been thinking about since expanding my 'next' HP search to include the TH600 and more recently, HD800. Originally I was only thinking about the TH900. 

I'll try to keep this short but the way I see it, as a newbie, is that the HD800 allows you to hear the music in a way that is very close to its purest form while most HPs has in a way eq'd the sound. I already have the Ed8, which imho is one of the best portable HP (regardless of their customer service, lol), so when I got a chance to audition the TH900, I was impressed but to me, they were too similar in sound/eq'ing to my Ed8, even though they were better than the Ed8 in every way from a sound perspective. I am still going to go for a final audition soon and I am leaning towards the HD800 because it has much more room to 'sculpture' the sound/eq to a wide variety of music types. I know that this sounds crazy because each HP is designed in their own unique way... it is not designed and then eq'ed in the way that I mention above. That is just the only way I was able to describe it.

This may be the reason why the HD800 is thought to be so picky... Because it can be more finely sculptured, through the selection of various equipment, THAN most other HPs.

I know this may not sound very audiophile like and I apologize for that but this is what I've been thinking while carrying out this next HP search. I'll try to clarify if you have any questions.


----------



## LugBug1

darken23 said:


> Could it be possible that your fingers are too stubby to fit in the ear? You shouldnt let it build up like that. I use a Q-Tip once every 2 days, habit I suppose.


 
 I stuff my ears with foam ear plugs on a night time... Wife snores. Think this might have something to do with me not getting any excess wax. But in general I wince at the thought of anything being put deep into my ear. My old Science teacher told us that the only thing you should put in your ear is your elbow. 
  


sonido said:


> I recently got the HD800. Been listening for a while now. I know a lot depends on your chain and what amp you're using, but I have a question on the subject of the HD800 being described as analytical, lacking euphony, lifeless, doesn't have musicality, etc. Would you guys say that statement has been greatly exaggerated, or is spot on? Assume a very neutral DAC and amp that just puts out the sound of the HD800 without adding sounds from the chain. If this is true, how easy would you guys say it is to make the HD800 sound euphonic and musical? Would it require a very expensive amp? Or does the HD800 never really lose that sense of analytical or lifelessness, regardless of what your chain is?


 
  
 Analytical yes, but lifeless? They are the opposite for me. They have always sounded full and deep, the most real sound that I've heard out of any hp or speaker. I remember being blown away by the eerily realness when I woke up and was still wearing them after a power nap. Spooked I was! by the realness.  
  
 I personally think that some peeps 'just can't handle the truth' that the HD800's deliver compared to other hp's. Similar priced planars for instance have a wonderful way off coating the sound with a smooth eggshell finish. If anyone prefers this extra something on the music thats fine. But the HD800's aren't anything in contrast, they are only truer to the source ime. 
  
 I also think that younger ears maybe more sensitive to the transparent treble than older ones. My middle aged ones are fine with it. But I can empathise with someone with sensitive ears and a brighter than neutral amp (Schiit SS for e.g) finding them fatiguing.
  
 My preference for sound has always been for warmth over flat neutrality. I listen to too many old Jazz cd's. So I pair the ultra transparent HD800's with high impedance amps. This adds weight to the bottom end and warms em up nicely. Nice and full sounding with all the glorious detail still there.


----------



## magiccabbage

rayzilla said:


> That sounds like the ultimate mod. lol
> 
> Is that where they squirt water into your ear, let it sit for a minute and then let it flow out? I bought one of those 'use at home' bottles that contains seawater or something like that.


 
 you have to use that kit for 3- 5 days to soften the wax and then go to the doctor and he uses a machine and other tools. He pumps warm water into your ear at high pressure. It is a bit sore but works really well.


----------



## money4me247

sonido said:


> Sure, context is very important. I have a proposition for comparing the euphony of the HD800 to other headphones. So let's use a percentile system, comparing to all other respectable headphones, from mid-fi to summit-fi. So anything from M50 and onwards. No consumer headphones. Assume each headphone is being put through a system where no sound signature of the chain is added, so we're just comparing stock sound of the headphones here. Also assume every headphone is properly driven with the appropriate power requirements. Now that we've establish a large set of respectable headphones and parameters, let's try to get a percentile number on euphony and musicality for the stock sound of the HD800. Would you consider it top half or bottom half? The way it has been described, I get the idea it's bottom 10%ile on this rating system. Now if you were allowed to add a chain that brings out the most musicality out of the HD800, and let's keep all other headphones with their stock sound, so they don't get the benefit of a chain optimized for euphony. So what percentile is the HD800 on that scale now? Does the HD800 have the technical feasibility to break into the top 25%ile even with the most ideal setup for euphony, and still comparing to other headphones with their stock sound? Even if one optimizes the HD800 for musicality and euphony, could it be on par to headphones that have a general consensus of being euphonic at their stock sound?


 
 ....W... t.... F........
  
 ummm... it's actually a lot simplier than that. you buy headphones, you listen to em. if you like em, you keep em. if you don't you return or sell em. what the hell does "euphony & musical" mean objectively on a rating system?! those are totally personal subjective terms!! lollol... so it is impossible to rate headphones on "how pleasing they sound to your ear" on some objective universal percentage system. lol!!!!
  
 it sounds to me like you aren't enjoying the way they sound, and are trying to justify keeping em because you got a deal on em. i would just continue trying em for 2 weeks & maybe try pairing with different equipment, but after that if you still don't like the basic sound signature or whatever, you should just return em. it is really that simple.


----------



## palmfish

> Originally Posted by *LugBug1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I personally think that some peeps 'just can't handle the truth' that the HD800's deliver compared to other hp's. Similar priced planars for instance have a wonderful way off coating the sound with a smooth eggshell finish. If anyone prefers this extra something on the music thats fine. But the HD800's aren't anything in contrast, they are only truer to the source ime.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


> Originally Posted by *money4me247* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> it's actually a lot simplier than that. you buy headphones, you listen to em. if you like em, you keep em. if you don't you return or sell em. what the hell does "euphony & musical" mean objectively on a rating system?! those are totally personal subjective terms!! lollol... so it is impossible to rate headphones on "how pleasing they sound to your ear" on some objective universal percentage system. lol!!!!
> 
> it sounds to me like you aren't enjoying the way they sound, and are trying to justify keeping em because you got a deal on em. i would just continue trying em for 2 weeks & maybe try pairing with different equipment, but after that if you still don't like the basic sound signature or whatever, you should just return em. it is really that simple.


 
  
 Exactly.
  
 The HD 800 is an honest headphone. A clear window to the source. It's OK to not want this.


----------



## LugBug1

> Originally Posted by *palmfish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The HD 800 is an honest headphone. A clear window to the source. It's OK to not want this.


 
 Well said. 
  
 (I just need to stop saying 'emphasize' when I mean 'empathise' I've just changed it on my original post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## Sonido

money4me247 said:


> ....W... t.... F........
> 
> ummm... it's actually a lot simplier than that. you buy headphones, you listen to em. if you like em, you keep em. if you don't you return or sell em. what the hell does "euphony & musical" mean objectively on a rating system?! those are totally personal subjective terms!! lollol... so it is impossible to rate headphones on "how pleasing they sound to your ear" on some objective universal percentage system. lol!!!!
> 
> it sounds to me like you aren't enjoying the way they sound, and are trying to justify keeping em because you got a deal on em. i would just continue trying em for 2 weeks & maybe try pairing with different equipment, but after that if you still don't like the basic sound signature or whatever, you should just return em. it is really that simple.




On the contrary, through my chain, I'm surprised at how lively and musical they are. They're as euphonic as any headphone I've heard. Sure with a more neutral setup, it was more polite sounding at first. I've been questioning whether that people are greatly exaggerating the whole lacks euphony thing, or if there is something wrong with my hearing.


----------



## palmfish

lugbug1 said:


> Well said.
> 
> (I just need to stop saying 'emphasize' when I mean 'empathise' I've just changed it on my original post  )




Empathize

As long as you are editing


----------



## LugBug1

palmfish said:


> Empathize
> 
> As long as you are editing


 
 Agghhh I'll get it right one day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I cant emphasize enough how important it is to me. I'm sure you can empathize with that. Got it!


----------



## palmfish

Lol!


----------



## RAZRr1275

Anyone hook these up to the project ember?


----------



## Sorrodje

razrr1275 said:


> Anyone hook these up to the project ember?


 
  
 Not myself but a friend of mine did it.  it seems to sound very good. Confirmed by two listeners who disliked HD800 before trying it on a Rega DAC + Ember combo


----------



## BournePerfect

sonido said:


> I recently got the HD800. Been listening for a while now. I know a lot depends on your chain and what amp you're using, but I have a question on the subject of the HD800 being described as analytical, lacking euphony, lifeless, doesn't have musicality, etc. Would you guys say that statement has been greatly exaggerated, or is spot on? Assume a very neutral DAC and amp that just puts out the sound of the HD800 without adding sounds from the chain. If this is true, how easy would you guys say it is to make the HD800 sound euphonic and musical? Would it require a very expensive amp? Or does the HD800 never really lose that sense of analytical or lifelessness, regardless of what your chain is?


 
  
 To me it was lifeless and dull out of a $4500 SBT--> M7/M8 combo.
 To me it was euphonic and musical from a $500 SBT-->m-Stage/Vali combo.
 Synergy is king wrt the HD800s.
 That said:
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 It was pure magic w/ the $5000 SBT-->DP1/ZDSE combo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

lugbug1 said:


> *I personally think that some peeps 'just can't handle the truth' that the HD800's deliver compared to other hp's. *


 
  
 Bingo-and that's why there are so many olarizing opinions out there. I've heard the HD800s sound absolutely terrible, absolutely awe-inspiring, and everything in between-simply by changing components in my system. Some people refuse to take the time, money, and/or effort to maximize the Senns potential, and that's fine. For those of us that have though...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  
 -Daniel


----------



## Sorrodje

I'm not as experienced as you but I fully agree. And it's definitely not a matter of money.


----------



## WNBC

I've been lucky.  I came late to the HD800 party with an amp and a DAC I like a lot, which seem to pair well with the HD800.  So I haven't heard the HD800 sound bad yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  A friend is letting me hear his V200 with the HD800.  Unfortunately I think it is still going to sound good with that amp.


----------



## Takeanidea

I have lots of enjoyment from the hd800 whatever I plug it into. It shows it's class whether you want to spend £10k or £100 it will have a sound quality . We can go round and round in never ending circles about all this matching up but there will come a point where you can say this is what I want from my music it's enough for me. The HD800 achieves that for me. I'm happy.


----------



## DarKen23

koiloco said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Id say the HD800 are quite amp picky, they can exhibit what youve described. Im assuming thats the reason the HD800 and tubes are talked in relation so much here. I think I may have had an amp that was borderline analytical, the Mjolnir. While it provided a very fast and thin sound, it wasnt unbearable and quite musical. I aimed for a amp with a warm signature, my pioneer receiver and the yulong A18 did a excellent job with the HD800.
> ...


well yea obviously. Were already assuming that the majority people here do not listen to mp3.


----------



## palmfish

darken23 said:


> Were already assuming that the majority people here do not listen to mp3.


 
  
 You know the cliche about what happens when you assume...


----------



## pdrm360

sonido said:


> On the contrary, through my chain, I'm surprised at how lively and musical they are. They're as euphonic as any headphone I've heard. Sure with a more neutral setup, it was more polite sounding at first. I've been questioning whether that people are greatly exaggerating the whole lacks euphony thing, or if there is something wrong with my hearing.


 
  
 Lacks euphony on what kind of music?  The HD800 is the best for Classical, Acoustic, and Jazz.


----------



## preproman

pdrm360 said:


> Lacks euphony on what kind of music?  The HD800 is the best for Classical, Acoustic, and Jazz.


 
 +1 - IMO not Jaazz though


----------



## pdrm360

preproman said:


> +1 - IMO not Jaazz though


 
  
*Smooth* Jazz and New Age music.


----------



## preproman

pdrm360 said:


> *Smooth* Jazz and New Age music.


 
 O, your not talking about Miles, Coltrane and the like..


----------



## pdrm360

preproman said:


> O, your not talking about Miles, Coltrane and the like..


 
 Miles Davis, but the well recorded ones


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> O, your not talking about Miles, Coltrane and the like..


 
 with the right tubes the hd800 sounds excellent with miles - i am rolling RCA's and Chatam 6as7g's and comparing them to the 5998's 
  
 the album  -  "Sorcerer" sounds a tad bit treble peaky with 5998's but its smooth as butter with the RCA's and i don't think it looses to much detail. 
  
 You don't use tubes amps though - you are solid state right? 
  
 Even old Tubby Hayes sax solos sound smooth to me with the RCA's. When you say that you prefer other headphones for jazz do you mean the HE6?


----------



## magiccabbage

An absolutely amazing player!


----------



## preproman

magiccabbage said:


> with the right tubes the hd800 sounds excellent with miles - i am rolling RCA's and Chatam 6as7g's and comparing them to the 5998's
> 
> the album  -  "Sorcerer" sounds a tad bit treble peaky with 5998's but its smooth as butter with the RCA's and i don't think it looses to much detail.
> 
> ...


 
 I mean planars n general.  They gives a more fuller sound for that music.  Not fact, just IMO


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> I mean planars n general.  They gives a more fuller sound for that music.  Not fact, just IMO


 
 Cool, i have heard this before but have never heard a good planar. I was interested in the LCD2 but i dont think i would give them the attention that they deserve with the T1 and HD800 around. I would have to get a top tier planar like LCD3 or HE6 but that is a long way off for now - i would have to go solid state for that i think but i  am planning on building a RJM audio Sapphire sometime this year - i wonder would the LCD3 sound good out of this? - maybe not?


----------



## Sonido

pdrm360 said:


> Lacks euphony on what kind of music?  The HD800 is the best for Classical, Acoustic, and Jazz.


 

 Rock, pop, electronica, and hip-hop/rap, though I don't listen to hip-hop/rap. These genres seem to be deemed as ones the HD800 struggles on. And in my experience, with a very neutral solid state amp that reproduces the stock sound of the HD800, I can hear that lack of euphony for those genres. I think a lot of it comes from the wide soundstage and separation of sounds is not suited for those genres, and it comes off as analytical and not engaging. Imagine if a rock band on a large stage with members spread far apart from each other. It wouldn't sound good, or at least it's not what we're used to, and I think this is what the HD800 does with these genres of music that aren't suited for a wide soundstage and that level of separation.
  
 However, I'm interested in how to fix this problem. Obviously, we wouldn't want to shrink the soundstage or screw up instrument separation, because to me those are good things. However, I think what could be done instead is giving added depth, body, and tactility to each instrument and sound. This way each sound covers up more space, so there isn't as much a sense of empty space in between sounds. I think we can all agree on what a congested sound sounds like. Imagine a lot of instruments in a small soundstage, so there's poor separation. The problem I think the stock sound of the HD800 has with these genres like rock or pop is the exact opposite of a congested sound. It's too spaced out, and leaves too much empty space in between that takes away from the liveliness and intimacy that makes these genres sound more natural. I think this is why people complain about the HD800 sounding lifeless or thin and lacking euphony.
  
 However, as I've already done, I found certain amping, especially tube amps, can add body and make instruments seem to take up more space, so there is less empty space in between, creating a more natural and coherent soundstage for these livelier genres. The reason I brought up all this euphony stuff, and whether amping can fix it is because I think I have personally done so with my setup. I just wanted confirmation I wasn't hearing crazy things. Currently my chain that is tuned most for euphony and catered to making rock/pop sound good to me is Bottlehead Quickie -> Bottlehead Crack -> HD800. I was using the Quickie + Emotiva, my HE-500 setup, with the HD800 and it was already sounding more musical that Crack + HD800, but then the people on the Bottlehead forums recommended me to try the Quickie going into Crack. I had doubts because I've never heard of preamping a headphone amp, and it was borderline double headphone amping, which is a big no-no here. But to my surprise, not only did it sound even more euphonic and lush to me for rock/pop than Quickie + Emotiva, it also had a dead silent noise floor, which was a problem with the Quickie + Emotiva setup. I exclaimed this revelation on the Bottlehead forums, and later Doc B. the owner of Bottlehead Corporation mentioned it's all about gain stages, and not the number of boxes, and it seems the Quickie and Crack match well as far as gain stage is concerned, and I'm loving the sound.
  
 Right now I still find the low end of the my HE-500 setup to have more impact and tactility for rock/pop than the HD800, but the HD800 is just as euphonic and engaging for these genres as the HE-500. It does not sound lifeless or analytical at all. However, the HD800 does have a wider (but still coherent and intimate) soundstage, and better detailing. It's really a toss-up on whether I prefer the HD800 or HE-500 for rock/pop. The bass of the HD800 is by no means weak, though it doesn't have that level of impact and feel the HE-500 makes, but it still sounds great with rock/pop. I also found the HE-500 to be more fatiguing when listening to this bass impact for a prolonged period of time. Honestly I had intended the HD800 to complement the HE-500, with the HE-500 winning hands down in rock/pop and other livelier genres, and the HD800 for classical and orchestral genres. However, with my setup, I'm finding the HD800 to be a more well rounded headphone that sounds great with any genre. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 One last note I should make, as I've mentioned in previous posts, I had listened to a friend's HD800 before, and I found it to be sibilant and have treble issues. I remember listening to it just through my D3 USB DAC/amp, and it sounded very thin and terrible. Even with the Crack, I could still hear sibilance all over, especially female vocals. I did not have the Quickie at the time. But with my pair, it never had these problems, and even connected to the D3, it sounded decent. I thought maybe this was ownership bias, but then koiloco who has also heard my friend's HD800, and bought his HD800 at the same time as me (the $890 sale), discovered the same thing, and that his pair had had none of these issues. Perhaps our HD800s from a recent batch has a new revision or something. Our serial numbers are 25XXX to 26XXX.
  
 To recap my chain:
 Audioengine D3 -> Bottlehead Quickie -> Bottlehead Crack -> HD800
 Audioengine D3 -> Bottlehead Quickie -> Emotiva MiniX a-100 -> HE-500
  
  
 So out of interest I went ahead and used this app called AudioTool on my phone that uses the mic to record frequencies. I tested both drivers of the HD800 through variation of my chain and recorded the graphs. I made sure each test was set to 75 dB of white noise, and I aligned the mic opening as close to the center of each driver. I'm sure this is far from accurate with my phone, but it should still give a comparison between the setups. Also note that the mic obviously has limitations for upper treble and bass, as you can see the roll-offs.
  
 HD800 Left D3

  
 HD800 Right D3

  
 Left D3 -> Crack

  
 Right D3 -> Crack

  
 Left D3 -> Quickie -> Crack

  
 Right D3 -> Quickie -> Crack

  
  
 I also combined some of the pictures to better show the difference between the most neutral stock sound from the D3, which is a solid state device, and my final setup, Quickie+Crack.
  
 Left D3 vs. D3 -> Quickie -> Crack (D3 is green, D3 + Quickie + Crack is violet)

  
 Right D3 vs. D3 -> Quickie -> Crack (D3 is green, D3 + Quickie + Crack is violet)

  
 I noticed there was more bass with the Quickie + Crack over the D3 alone.
  
 I next combined the graphs for the D3 + Crack and the D3 + Quickie + Crack to see exactly what the Quickie added to the chain.
  
 Left D3 -> Crack vs. D3 -> Quickie -> Crack (D3 + Crack is green, D3 + Quickie + Crack is violet)

  
 Right D3 -> Crack vs. D3 -> Quickie -> Crack (D3 + Crack is green, D3 + Quickie + Crack is violet)

  
 While it's probably inconsistent measuring, especially on the left driver, but it seems the Quickie has a more linear curve, and with a touch less deep valleys.
  
 Once again, these are very informal measurements. Also, I don't think these graphs describe euphony at all.


----------



## pdrm360

sonido said:


> Rock, pop, electronica, and hip-hop/rap, though I don't listen to hip-hop/rap. These genres seem to be deemed as ones the HD800 struggles on. And in my experience, with a very neutral solid state amp that reproduces the stock sound of the HD800, I can hear that lack of euphony for those genres. I think a lot of it comes from the wide soundstage and separation of sounds is not suited for those genres, and it comes off as analytical and not engaging. Imagine if a rock band on a large stage with members spread far apart from each other. It wouldn't sound good, or at least it's not what we're used to, and I think this is what the HD800 does with these genres of music that aren't suited for a wide soundstage and that level of separation.


 
  
 Sorry you chose a wrong headphones for rock/pop. Beyer T1 is a way better for rock and the HD6X0s are good enough for pop music, IMO. 
  
 To me the HD800 is a Ferrari 458 and the HE-500 is a Ford F-150, of course the Ford F-150 is a better car for for transporting building equipment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just kidding


----------



## koiloco

pdrm360 said:


> Sorry you chose a wrong headphones for rock/pop. Beyer T1 is a way better for rock and the HD6X0s are good enough for pop music, IMO.
> 
> To me the HD800 is a Ferrari 458 and the HE-500 is a Ford F-150, of course the Ford F-150 is a better car for for transporting building equipment.
> 
> ...


 
 Kidding or not, Ferrari vs. Ford, my behind.  If you are on something, please get off it quickly.  Just like Sonido, If I don't have both HD800 and HE500, i might have believed you for real.


----------



## Takeanidea

pdrm360 said:


> Sorry you chose a wrong headphones for rock/pop. Beyer T1 is a way better for rock




Sorry I disagree. Rock and pop is way better on the HD800's imo. Much more natural sounding much better bass and much easier to pick out all of the instruments and effects with. Also much easier to listen to over hours of listening time. These are my conclusions based on owning both phones. 
The hd650 I listened to is not in the same league as the HD800 for pop music. Including playing mp3 flac and hi res.


----------



## Mambosenior

The HD-800 covers all genres. Some folks prefer a more whumpy sound because, hey, it IS rock! A bit like turning up the bass knob on those old receivers powering Sony floor speakers. I'll hold off on T1 opinions until next week when I audition them again (3rd time). This time with a beefy tube amp. Over 3 SS amps, they weren't memorable.


----------



## koiloco

mambosenior said:


> *The HD-800 covers all genres*. Some folks prefer a more whumpy sound because, hey, it IS rock! A bit like turning up the bass knob on those old receivers powering Sony floor speakers. I'll hold off on T1 opinions until next week when I audition them again (3rd time). This time with a beefy tube amp. Over 3 SS amps, they weren't memorable.


 
 Yes, as do all HPs including my $5 ear-buds.  It's a "thing" called personal preference.


----------



## Mambosenior

Whose arguing with you or your preferences? Go for it.


----------



## cucera

koiloco said:


> Kidding or not, Ferrari vs. Ford, my behind.  If you are on something, please get off it quickly.  Just like Sonido, If I don't have both HD800 and HE500, i might have believed you for real.




Verry true indeed, with this two phones you are covereing nearly every need (well one portable is lacking). If your on a budget and listen only to pop rock the T1 is the best solution.


----------



## pdrm360

koiloco said:


> Kidding or not, Ferrari vs. Ford, my behind.  If you are on something, please get off it quickly.  Just like Sonido, If I don't have both HD800 and HE500, i might have believed you for real.


 
  
 Do you think the HE-500 is a better headphones for classical music? or just better for pop music?


----------



## Maxvla

I prefer HD800 for all genres. HE-500 is boring, but decent. Good at everything, great at nothing. T1 is bad for all genres.


----------



## Takeanidea

cucera said:


> Verry true indeed, with this two phones you are covereing nearly every need (well one portable is lacking). If your on a budget and listen only to pop rock the T1 is the best solution.



 


I vastly prefer pop rock with the HD800 compared to the T1 so much so I sold the T1. I realised the sound I wanted was the sound of the HD800. Each to their own though, but the T1 sounds metallic and has less space than the HD800.
You only have to look at the resale value of both phones to see what phone has the better reputation


----------



## WNBC

I don't think we'll be able to nail which headphone is better ALL THE TIME for genres.  Maybe for some recordings and groups.  Even within genres I can't nail down which is better between my Alpha Dog and HD800.  I thought it would be a slam dunk with all vocals going to sound better on the Alpha Dog.  Nope.  I've owned the HE-500 and LCD-2 rev1/rev2.  I thought the HE-500 might be the best out of the crop for jazz, but the HD800 is no slouch for well-recorded modern jazz.  
  
 I would say the HD-800 is a BMW M5 and the HE-500 a Chevy Corvette 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 And on top of all of this, the HD-800 is burning in my brain nicely.  I may be able to talk myself out of the various mods people do to this headphone and use it as is.  I wonder what the mod rate is for this headphone and how it varies based on tube vs SS amp.


----------



## Takeanidea

maxvla said:


> I prefer HD800 for all genres. HE-500 is boring, but decent. Good at everything, great at nothing. T1 is bad for all genres.



 


I also prefer the HD800 all genres. It takes time to appreciate this phone and the cost justifies investing a lot of time listening to music with these phones.


----------



## pdrm360

wnbc said:


> I don't think we'll be able to nail which headphone is better ALL THE TIME for genres.  Maybe for some recordings and groups.  Even within genres I can't nail down which is better between my Alpha Dog and HD800.  I thought it would be a slam dunk with all vocals going to sound better on the Alpha Dog.  Nope.  I've owned the HE-500 and LCD-2 rev1/rev2.  I thought the HE-500 might be the best out of the crop for jazz, but the HD800 is no slouch for well-recorded modern jazz.
> 
> I would say the HD-800 is a BMW M5 and the HE-500 a Chevy Corvette
> 
> ...


 
  
 No, I would say the HD800 is more like this


----------



## WNBC

x2.  $$$$.  Some headphones you love right away.  Some you hate but then grow to love.  Some are just boring from start to finish.  Some you sell to quick.  Some not quick enough.  I liked the HD800 a lot at start but growing on me more each day which is only like one week for me   Anybody else consider the Alpha Dog the closed version of the HD800?  Naturally the HD800 does some special things as an open headphone but both have neutral/flat response with very good detail.  If you like the HD800 I think you'll like the Alpha Dog.  Maybe just me.  
  
  
 Quote:


takeanidea said:


> I also prefer the HD800 all genres. It takes time to appreciate this phone and the cost justifies investing a lot of time listening to music with these phones.


----------



## WNBC

Good to know I'm one step closer to a Ferrari 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Assuming that is a Ferrari.  Kind of looks like Lambo but this is out of my realm.  Maybe my next hobby.    
  
  
 Quote:


pdrm360 said:


> No, I would say the HD800 is more like this


----------



## pdrm360

Cannot tell the Alpha Dog is a closed version of the HD800, but I do like the Alpha Dog.


----------



## LugBug1

magiccabbage said:


> Cool, i have heard this before but have never heard a good planar. I was interested in the LCD2 but i dont think i would give them the attention that they deserve with the T1 and HD800 around. I would have to get a top tier planar like LCD3 or HE6 but that is a long way off for now - i would have to go solid state for that i think but i  am planning on building a RJM audio Sapphire sometime this year - i wonder would the LCD3 sound good out of this? - maybe not?


 
 The LCD2 is actually a nice contrast to the HD800. I think most peeps either prefer an LCD3 or HD800 but not many keep both, same with the HE6. 
  
 If you are looking for a great hp for classic Jazz I thought the LCD2 really excelled. Modern Jazz from the likes of ECM, ACT, Cleanfeed labels, the Senn's are better though imo. 
  
 I would also still recommend the HD650 for Miles, Coltrane etc - older harsher recordings


----------



## Takeanidea

pdrm360 said:


> No, I would say the HD800 is more like this



 


Give it 6 months and see if your opinion changes, the alpha dogs sound like they're quite some headphone from your findings though. I shall keep a look out for them at the head fi meets.


----------



## cucera

As much as I love my HD800 it would never be my only phone. Some music I really like are bad recordings. So you need a second be it LCD2, HE500, D5000, GS1000i or HD650 which I all own/ed.


----------



## pdrm360

It’s hard to say an orthos’ sound signature is same as a dynamic headphones. in overall the orthos are better for electronic music and the dynamic phones for acoustic music, IMO.


----------



## Takeanidea

cucera said:


> As much as I love my HD800 it would never be my only phone. Some music I really like are bad recordings. So you need a second be it LCD2, HE500, D5000, GS1000i or HD650 which I all own/ed.



 


Some really nice 2nd headphones there. Which poor recordings favour these alternatives? I would like to see how my ears cope with them. Maybe I'm more tolerant because I have only 1 over the ear headphone


----------



## Maxvla

pdrm360 said:


> Cannot tell the Alpha Dog is a closed version of the HD800, but I do like the Alpha Dog.




It isn't remotely close. The Alphas are good for what they are, but they are radically different sounding from the HD800.

--

I heard the HD800 2-3 times before I bought them and while I didn't think they sounded bad, I wasn't all that impressed. In fact, every meet I heard them at, I picked other headphones as best in show. The meet before I bought them I actually went full on IEM/CIEM, then SR-007 MK1, and only after that did I recall I thought the HD800 had potential. A few online friends who also owned the CIEM I had picked out and loved (UERM) also owned HD800s so I gave them another try. At first I thought they were still good, but they hadn't solidified a spot yet. I was using a WA6 at the time, then I got both the Schiit Mjolnir and Bryston BHA-1, where the HD800s really opened up and convinced me of their superiority over all other headphones save HE90. Changing my DAC, and then hearing my HD800 with my DAC and the Headamp GS-X 2 gave me sound that amazed with it's utter plainness, so natural, yet delicate. The only upgrade possible, IMO, in headphones would be an angled driver electrostat with similar balance as HE90/HD800*, or a CIEM with electrostat resolution and HE90/HD800* balance.

* - I am aware the HD800 is a brighter balance and HE90 is a warmer balance. Mix the two and you have fantastic sound.


----------



## cucera

takeanidea said:


> cucera said:
> 
> 
> > As much as I love my HD800 it would never be my only phone. Some music I really like are bad recordings. So you need a second be it LCD2, HE500, D5000, GS1000i or HD650 which I all own/ed.
> ...




Well most pop/rock recordings. Try to listen to Red hot chillie peppers Californication with HD800 and your ears will bleed.


----------



## Maxvla

cucera said:


> Well most pop/rock recordings. Try to listen to Red hot chillie peppers Californication with HD800 and your ears will bleed.



That has nothing to do with headphone choice, and everything to do with Californication being a DR5 album.

On a related note I really love the Imagine Dragons album, Nightvisions, but I can't listen to it on any form of playback, even a crappy stereo, because it's a DR4 album and it sounds heavily distorted on anything, even the most forgiving playback options. It's too bad. I will have to get the vinyl rip somehow. The vinyl version is DR11. Go figure.


----------



## pdrm360

cucera said:


> Well most pop/rock recordings. Try to listen to Red hot chillie peppers Californication with HD800 and your ears will bleed.


 
  
 I really like the Californication with my T1.


----------



## TheDuke990

Worst records are definitely from Red Hot Chillie Peppers. All records hurt my ears independent from the headphone I used.
 Unfortunately the records from Maroon 5 are worse as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Takeanidea

I have just got the imagine dragons album so will give it a listen through whichever dap I've put it on. Luckily I'm not a red hot chillis fan.


----------



## Sorrodje

preproman said:


> +1 - IMO not Jaazz though


 
  
 Depends on what Jazz we're talking about. For Modern Jazz like ECM ou ACT catalogs or Chick Corea or many other modern & contemporary Jazz, HD800 is absolutely marvelous. That said, with my current rig the HD800 is enjoyable with about every music except really bad mastering ( I really CAN'T hear more than few seconds of 20th Anniversary version of "THRILLER" for example 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## preproman

sorrodje said:


> Depends on what Jazz we're talking about. For Modern Jazz like ECM ou ACT catalogs or Chick Corea or many other modern & contemporary Jazz, HD800 is absolutely marvelous. That said, with my current rig the HD800 is enjoyable with about every music except really bad mastering ( I really CAN'T hear more than few seconds of 20th Anniversary version of "THRILLER" for example
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm talking about all Jazz.  Yes the HD800s are marvelous.  I just prefer a more fuller sound for Jazz.  
  
 That might change with my new DAC and I have another GS-X mk2 on the way.  So we'll see.


----------



## Sorrodje

preproman said:


> I'm talking about all Jazz.  Yes the HD800s are marvelous.  I just prefer a more fuller sound for Jazz.


 
  
  
 I understand. For the most energetic Jazz I like using My Ultrasone Signature pro. For example :
  

  
  
 But for that : 
  

  
  
 I prefer HD800.
  
  
 Depending of my mood, sometimes i prefer listening the same album with my Sig pro and sometimes with my HD800. That's the most interesting point of headphones. Each Headphone has its own way to present music. So with different headphones we can enjoy the same music differently.


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> I'm talking about all Jazz.  Yes the HD800s are marvelous.  I just prefer a more fuller sound for Jazz.
> 
> That might change with my new DAC and I have another GS-X mk2 on the way.  So we'll see.


 
 re-buying the GSX - why so because? You miss it? Did you ever venture into tubes or maybe you just don't like em?


----------



## preproman

magiccabbage said:


> re-buying the GSX - why so because? You miss it? Did you ever venture into tubes or maybe you just don't like em?


 
  
 Ha ha ha...  I just wantend to get on the list.  Never know.  I want to side by side compare it to a EC 445 if I can get my hands on one.


----------



## WNBC

I stand corrected 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  My Alpha Dog is on loan and I've had the HD800 only a week.  No overlap.  When I get the Alphas back I'll do more comparing.  Both share neutrality and flat response.  Midrange palpability goes to Alphas.  Detail and soundstage go to HD800.  I'm excited to hear the HD800 on the V200 next week.


----------



## koiloco

Am I lucky with my unit or Sein is pulling my legs?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is an impressive freq response graph IMO. 
 Ever since I received my HD800, I was surprised to find the popular spike in the high missing in unit.
 Sonido also received his recently and instantly wondered the same about the treble spike missing on his HD800.
 Unit variation?  Sein's done something to recent batch?  Who cares!  I like it.


----------



## pdrm360

You just got your HD800, you need a couple weeks for brain burn-in, IMHO.


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> Ha ha ha...  I just wantend to get on the list.  Never know.  I want to side by side compare it to a EC 445 if I can get my hands on one.


 
 cool, that will benefit a lot of people. Is the EC 445 even out yet?


----------



## koiloco

pdrm360 said:


> You just got your HD800, you need a couple weeks for brain burn-in, IMHO.


 

 Nah, I had my friend's HD800 for 2 weeks straight on the same DAC/Amp so I know exactly how the HD800 would sound.  Plus, I still have a fixed reference point which is my HE500.  So far, this HD800 is interestingly different.  Anyway, I will try to get my friend's unit again and verify the variation, blindly of course.


----------



## BournePerfect

magiccabbage said:


> cool, that will benefit a lot of people. Is the EC 445 even out yet?


 
  
 Hahahahaha.......no. It's getting there though.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## pdrm360

koiloco said:


> Nah, I had my friend's HD800 for 2 weeks straight on the same DAC/Amp so I know exactly how the HD800 would sound.  Plus, I still have a fixed reference point which is my HE500.  So far, this HD800 is interestingly different.  Anyway, I will try to get my friend's unit again and verify the variation, blindly of course.


 
 Different in the bad way or good way?


----------



## LugBug1

koiloco said:


> Am I lucky with my unit or Sein is pulling my legs?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Pleased you are enjoying them bud. But in all seriousness these graphs all have different variations, but lots of good ears say that they all pretty much sound the same. The very earlier model's possibly are warmer sounding I've read.
  
 As you can see on my graph, the treble around the 6k spike area is as flat as a pancake. But my ears can hear the spike. The only problem with the spike is that it is grossly overrated by peeps. Thats why you were surprised when you heard them.


----------



## pdrm360

The Sennheiser's graphs aren't accurate, they calculate an average frequency response per 2k in highs.


----------



## pdrm360

Here is mine:


----------



## LugBug1

http://www.head-fi.org/t/646871/new-hd-800-very-different-than-the-old-hd-800 
  
 This thread is worth a plough through for those interested in the graphs


----------



## pdrm360

lugbug1 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/646871/new-hd-800-very-different-than-the-old-hd-800
> 
> This thread is worth a plough through for those interested in the graphs


 
  
 They are all sound same to me, I've tried 3 of them (S# 12XXX, 19XXX, and 24XXX). Maybe my ears are not good enough.


----------



## koiloco

lugbug1 said:


> Pleased you are enjoying them bud. But in all seriousness these graphs all have different variations, but lots of good ears say that they all pretty much sound the same. The very earlier model's possibly are warmer sounding I've read.
> 
> As you can see on my graph, the treble around the 6k spike area is as flat as a pancake. But my ears can hear the spike. The only problem with the spike is that it is grossly overrated by peeps. Thats why you were surprised when you heard them.


 

 Thx for sharing urs.  I will borrow my friend's HD800 again and verify this myth.  Graphs all look good (which is the easy part).


----------



## koiloco

pdrm360 said:


> Here is mine:


 
 I like your graph even better than mine.


----------



## LugBug1

pdrm360 said:


> They are all sound same to me, I've tried 3 of them (S# 12XXX, 19XXX, and 24XXX). Maybe my ears are not good enough.


 
 Wish I could comment on that, but I've only heard mine.
  
 But I have learned to discern certain FR over the years, or to know emphasis in areas. I'm no expert, but the HD800's to me are as flat as you can get. The only area where they cheat - and most quality headphones do, is a dip at the 2-3k mark. But this is where we are most sensitive according the earologists (yes just made that word up coz I couldn't be ***** to wiki it.) and we have a natural dip there. The K701 by contrast have this area slightly emphasized and just above the line. If the Senn's were flatter in this area, we wouldn't make such a deal of the 6-7k peak imo.


----------



## LugBug1

koiloco said:


> Thx for sharing urs.  I will borrow my friend's HD800 again and verify this myth.  Graphs all look good (which is the easy part).


 
 Keep us informed bud


----------



## koiloco

lugbug1 said:


> Keep us informed bud


 

 Of course, I will.  It's good info to share.


----------



## Sonido

Mine is very similar to koiloco's. One thing I noticed comparing to everyone else's graphs is that after the dip at 8K, my 10K mark rises less than the other graphs. It looks like that 10K is higher than 6K for everyone else, but my 10K isn't as high. Then for most people, the 12K dips slightly in comparison to 10K, but my 12K is higher than 10K. It looks like my 10K and 12K is reversed compared to everyone else. Not sure what this means for the sound.


----------



## pdrm360

sonido said:


> Mine is very similar to koiloco's. One thing I noticed comparing to everyone else's graphs is that after the dip at 8K, my 10K mark rises less than the other graphs. It looks like that 10K is higher than 6K for everyone else, but my 10K isn't as high. Then for most people, the 12K dips slightly in comparison to 10K, but my 12K is higher than 10K. It looks like my 10K and 12K is reversed compared to everyone else. Not sure what this means for the sound.


 
  
 That means you have the most unique HD800.


----------



## Sonido

pdrm360 said:


> That means you have the most unique HD800.



Is that an euphemism for defective? 

Honestly though, I love the sound through my setup. To me it's just as well rounded as the HE-500, and is on par in rock/pop to me. Definitely different sounding than my friend's HD800 from memory, even through same chain.


----------



## pdrm360

sonido said:


> Is that an euphemism for defective?


 
  
 No, you are not the only one.


----------



## palmfish

lugbug1 said:


> Wish I could comment on that, but I've only heard mine.
> 
> But I have learned to discern certain FR over the years, or to know emphasis in areas. I'm no expert, but the HD800's to me are as flat as you can get. The only area where they cheat - and most quality headphones do, is a dip at the 2-3k mark. But this is where we are most sensitive according the earologists (yes just made that word up coz I couldn't be ***** to wiki it.) and we have a natural dip there. The K701 by contrast have this area slightly emphasized and just above the line. If the Senn's were flatter in this area, we wouldn't make such a deal of the 6-7k peak imo.


 
  
 I don't envy headphone manufacturers trying to decide how to "tune" the frequency response. Between the variations in amplifiers on the market and the target demographic, it's impossible for a headphone to please everyone.
  
 Consider the Equal Loudness Contour (ELC) and sensorineural hearing loss of individuals. I have often wondered if engineers design certain headphones to sound ideal for a specific demographic using as a model the typical hearing loss curve of the target age group and compensation for the ELC based on typical volume that age group might most often use.
  
 Oh, and LugBug, since you opened the door - is Otolaryngologist the word you were looking for? I had never heard this word before a couple of months ago but now its part of my lexicon. It's fun to type and even funner to say!


----------



## pdrm360

sonido said:


> Is that an euphemism for defective?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Honestly, I heard different sounding on different HD650s and HD700s but not on the HD800s.


----------



## Sonido

pdrm360 said:


> No, you are not the only one.



Yes our two of a kind here are far superior than the rest of those plebeian 10K peaks! And of course mine is the very best because the rise from 8K to 12K is more even!

Or you know, these variations in treble could be a few millimeter differences on headphone placement when testing or something.


----------



## pdrm360

sonido said:


> Yes our two of a kind here are far superior than the rest of those plebeian 10K peaks! And of course mine is the very best because the rise from 8K to 12K is more even!
> 
> Or you know, these variations in treble could be a few millimeter differences on headphone placement when testing or something.


 
  
 It could be.
  
 Even one pair of headphones has different result every time in the measurements.


----------



## LugBug1

palmfish said:


> I don't envy headphone manufacturers trying to decide how to "tune" the frequency response. Between the variations in amplifiers on the market and the target demographic, it's impossible for a headphone to please everyone.
> 
> Consider the Equal Loudness Contour (ELC) and sensorineural hearing loss of individuals. I have often wondered if engineers design certain headphones to sound ideal for a specific demographic using as a model the typical hearing loss curve of the target age group and compensation for the ELC based on typical volume that age group might most often use.
> 
> Oh, and LugBug, since you opened the door - is *Otolaryngologist* the word you were looking for? I had never heard this word before a couple of months ago but now its part of my lexicon. It's fun to type and even funner to say!


 
 Thats the one! I knew it was long and I'm having trouble reading it, never mind pronouncing it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But you made a very valid point there in regards to FR and the pleasing of everyone. I have a feeling that in the next decade or so, everything will be louder! My daughter (21) has had trouble with her ears for a few years now and thats from using IEM's too loud, I'm sure it is. Wish she would listen to me instead


----------



## palmfish

lugbug1 said:


> Thats the one! I knew it was long and I'm having trouble reading it, never mind pronouncing it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ha ha. When I went to the VA for the first time, it was written on the wall in the hallway outside the Audiology dept. I stared at the sign for 2 or 3 minutes sounding it out until I could say it...lol.
  
 I was (and still am) very strict about volume with my kids. Have been since day one. I would randomly make them give me their headphones and put them on to make sure they weren't not too loud. When I bought my daughter her first pair of headphones, I chose PortaPros - not just because they are a good inexpensive headphone, but because they are relatively inefficient. These days I don't need to spot check their volume too often, but when I do they are always obeying. Hopefully my hearing issues and scare tactics have paid off.


----------



## LugBug1

palmfish said:


> Ha ha. When I went to the VA for the first time, it was written on the wall in the hallway outside the Audiology dept. I stared at the sign for 2 or 3 minutes sounding it out until I could say it...lol.
> 
> I was (and still am) very strict about volume with my kids. Have been since day one. I would randomly make them give me their headphones and put them on to make sure they weren't not too loud. When I bought my daughter her first pair of headphones, I chose PortaPros - not just because they are a good inexpensive headphone, but because they are relatively inefficient. These days I don't need to spot check their volume too often, but when I do they are always obeying. Hopefully my hearing issues and scare tactics have paid off.


 
 I wish I could have had that kind of input with my daughter, but she's from a previous marriage and I was a young dad playing in bands. Though I'm probably going to be a bit OTT with my younger son when he gets to the age of listening to hp's and clubbing, going to gigs etc. He'll be the only kid with ear plugs at the school disco hahah


----------



## palmfish

lugbug1 said:


> I wish I could have had that kind of input with my daughter, but she's from a previous marriage and I was a young dad playing in bands. Though I'm probably going to be a bit OTT with my younger son when he gets to the age of listening to hp's and clubbing, going to gigs etc. He'll be the only kid with ear plugs at the school disco hahah


 
  
 Send him with earplugs and a bottle of Captain Morgan then.


----------



## LugBug1

palmfish said:


> Send him with earplugs and a bottle of Captain Morgan then.


 
 hahaha he'll sure be popular then!


----------



## palmfish

Exactly


----------



## Takeanidea

maxvla said:


> That has nothing to do with headphone choice, and everything to do with Californication being a DR5 album.
> 
> On a related note I really love the Imagine Dragons album, Nightvisions, but I can't listen to it on any form of playback, even a crappy stereo, because it's a DR4 album and it sounds heavily distorted on anything, even the most forgiving playback options. It's too bad. I will have to get the vinyl rip somehow. The vinyl version is DR11. Go figure.




I have had a listen to nightvisions through my c4 pro / hd800 and it sounds great. The synthetic bass is accurately reproduced in the same way as Michael Jackson's material and many will know promiscuous by nelly furtado. Other opinions would be valued. 
I'll post up my findings for the dx100 when I give it a listen. 
There's something very contemporary but also very retro about Imagine Dragons, I heard it on vinyl as my first listen. It was unimpressive sq wise but of course it was only going through speakers


----------



## Greed

The Nighvisions redbook is crap. Tons of reverb and peaks. Haven't heard the vinyl copy yet, but I'll pick it up soon.


----------



## Maxvla

greed said:


> The Nighvisions redbook is crap. Tons of reverb and peaks. Haven't heard the vinyl copy yet, but I'll pick it up soon.




Yes it is awful. How can you stand listening to it, Take?


----------



## koiloco

maxvla said:


> Yes it is awful. How can you stand listening to it, Take?


 

 I also have that album.  While it's not the best quality, I just listen to the music itself instead of analyzing it for recording quality.


----------



## Greed

koiloco said:


> I also have that album.  While it's not the best quality, I just listen to the music itself instead of analyzing it for recording quality.


 
  
 You make it seem like neither of us are "listening to music". My comments were made strictly about the recording with the HD800. I can enjoy poor recording with lesser revealing headphones, and I do.


----------



## koiloco

greed said:


> You make it seem like neither of us are "listening to music". My comments were made strictly about the recording with the HD800. I can enjoy poor recording with lesser revealing headphones, and I do.


 

 Not what I meant.  Apology if you took it that way.  I do agree with you about HD800 making it less "tolerable" though.   That's when I put on HE500 and continue listening.


----------



## Maxvla

I try to listen to it even on my car stereo when it comes on the radio, it is still impossible to listen to with that crazy distortion.


----------



## Greed

koiloco said:


> Not what I meant.  Apology if you took it that way.  I do agree with you about HD800 making it less "tolerable" though.   That's when I put on HE500 and continue listening.


 
  
 It's definitely nice to have more forgiving headphones around. I try to remember all this is about the music, sometimes I get carried away for sure.


----------



## Takeanidea

The Nightvisions album is a great album. On the HD800's it sounds great , through the DX100 as well as the C4. We can tear apart track after track album after album for it's apparent lack of recording or mastering quality but does that result in us enjoying our favourite music more? 
Just sit back and have a positive experience, you've got a pair of HD800's on for God's sake!
Appreciate them or sell up!


----------



## Sonido

Listening to this on my HD800. Absolutely speechless.


----------



## pdrm360

sonido said:


> Listening to this on my HD800. Absolutely speechless.


 
  
 Thanks for sharing this, actually it's not bad on the T1 too.


----------



## elvergun

pdrm360 said:


> Thanks for sharing this, actually it's not bad on the T1 too.


 

 Nothing is bad on the T1.


----------



## Sonido

Well this makes four straight nights that I've stayed up past 4am listening through HD800 since the day I got them, and I got work the next morning each day other than new years day. You can probably guess I like them.


----------



## DarKen23

sonido said:


> Well this makes four straight nights that I've stayed up past 4am listening through HD800 since the day I got them, and I got work the next morning each day other than new years day. You can probably guess I like them.


 
 Lol, I went through the same thing


----------



## CGBSpencer

I had listen to this wonderful headphones and the sound amazing for me. Still dont have the audiophile ear to hear the difference.. yet..


----------



## GoldfishX

Neat trick, I find every aspect of the HD800 improves when I wear them properly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I realized the headband wasn't sitting squarely on my head (more at an angle). When I made the adjustment, the whole sound tightened up. My rig still isn't quite right for them (highs too harsh, a bit of muddiness in the low mids), but the fun factor and imaging with them improved a lot, despite the imperfections.


----------



## Takeanidea

cgbspencer said:


> I had listen to this wonderful headphones and the sound amazing for me. Still dont have the audiophile ear to hear the difference.. yet..




You don't need special ears to hear they're good. Audiophiles don't have special ears , most of them look pretty normal


----------



## pdrm360

A real audiophile!


----------



## Angelbelow

Heres a funny one.. one of my students has a friend (both in high school) who bought the HD800s because he assumed that at the price of $1,500, he would be getting one of the best headphones in the world. Hes not wrong about the HD800s being one of the best, except that was a lucky guess and he actually doesn't know much else about audio. Currently running his HD800s off his iphone/PC audio jack..


----------



## DarKen23

angelbelow said:


> Heres a funny one.. one of my students has a friend (both in high school) who bought the HD800s because he assumed that at the price of $1,500, he would be getting one of the best headphones in the world. Hes not wrong about the HD800s being one of the best, except that was a lucky guess and he actually doesn't know much else about audio. Currently running his HD800s off his iphone/PC audio jack..


 
 Lol. Well, Ive been called a "retard" because I spent 1k+ on headphones that he believes sound exactly and no different than his 40.00 skullcandy because he has no idea that Im plugging the HD800 into a amp thats hooked up to a dedicated source. He thought the only source ever to exist to mankind up to that day was the 3.5mm jack of the computer. I almost jumped off a cliff that day.


----------



## BournePerfect

Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnn!


----------



## DarKen23

Oh and thats what he looked like after he heard the HD800 for the first time. He was sad and it was quite amusing for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .
  
 Whos the "retard" now Charlie, who.


----------



## GoldfishX

Well, to be fair, there is sticker shock involved for people when you get into sources/amps/DAC's to go with those $1500 headphones. And most people probably have used their PC audio jacks for most everything else.


----------



## DarKen23

goldfishx said:


> Well, to be fair, there is sticker shock involved for people when you get into sources/amps/DAC's to go with those $1500 headphones. And most people probably have used their PC audio jacks for most everything else.


 
 Thats true. But comeon, seriously? A 3.5mm computer jack with a dac priced at 8 cents? I guess I like to think that people in general get curious about the possibility of 'better audio'.


----------



## GoldfishX

Ignorance is bliss. What yanks my chain is people that listen to the awful speakers on smartphones, where the music is barely recognizable.
  
 DAC's are foreign concepts to most people, they need explanation. They are like a forgotten/unknown step in the chain. I had to learn the hard way, wondering why $1500 headphones and a bunch of $1000+ amps sounded so flat and lifeless (I was auditioning them on CD players, where the DAC was probably an afterthought). I know better now. *hugs Dac-It*


----------



## Angelbelow

darken23 said:


> Lol. Well, Ive been called a "retard" because I spent 1k+ on headphones that he believes sound exactly and no different than his 40.00 skullcandy because he has no idea that Im plugging the HD800 into a amp thats hooked up to a dedicated source. He thought the only source ever to exist to mankind up to that day was the 3.5mm jack of the computer. I almost jumped off a cliff that day.


 
  
 Haha.. yeah I was browsing headfi and my student said "Wait! My friend has those!" (pointing at the HD800s) My first thought was impossible.. he must have them confused with another pair. Then he goes on to say don't they cost $1500? Definitely a shocker.
  
 I'll probably run into the student who actually owns the HD800s on Monday. I'll strike up a convo with him haha.


----------



## magiccabbage

darken23 said:


> Oh and thats what he looked like after he heard the HD800 for the first time. He was sad and it was quite amusing for me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


----------



## Takeanidea

HD800 envy in it's purest form...


----------



## koiloco

As I promised that I would report in after directly comparing on my WA22.
 To my ears, the common HD800(#24361), that both I and Sonido listened to, does not sound any difference than mine(#26614).  Our minds and bias are indeed powerful.


----------



## pdrm360

koiloco said:


> As I promised that I would report in after directly comparing on my WA22.
> To my ears, the common HD800(#24361), that both I and Sonido listened to, does not sound any difference than mine(#26614).
> *Our minds and bias are indeed powerful.*


 
  
 Sad but true!


----------



## Sonido

Ownership bias for sure.


----------



## NZtechfreak

koiloco said:


> As I promised that I would report in after directly comparing on my WA22.
> To my ears, the common HD800(#24361), that both I and Sonido listened to, does not sound any difference than mine(#26614).  Our minds and bias are indeed powerful.




Indeed! 

I was already aware of this, but the extent of the influence of bias still surprised me when a friend and I did a blind and volume matched test of a couple of phones a while back. 

Even the most vaunted here are not immune to it, as Tyll's UE9000 review proves.


----------



## CDCollector

I'm torn between these and the LCD-2. Is there a $1,500 amplifier + DAC combination that would do justice to the HD800? For the LCD-2 there is the Mjolnir + Gungnir combo.


----------



## Maxvla

Concero and CSP2+


----------



## koiloco

cdcollector said:


> I'm torn between these and the LCD-2. Is there a $1,500 amplifier + DAC combination that would do justice to the HD800? For the LCD-2 there is the Mjolnir + Gungnir combo.


 
 Yes, bifrost and WA2 would be another combo right at your price point.


----------



## koiloco

maxvla said:


> Concero and *CSP2+*


 
 I had taboo MKIII for a little bit.  The amp sounded great with HD800 but unfortunately, I had other associated problems that I ended up returning the Taboo to Steve.  Super customer service, IMO.


----------



## CDCollector

maxvla said:


> Concero and CSP2+


 
  
  


koiloco said:


> Yes, bifrost and WA2 would be another combo right at your price point.


 
  
 What about solid state?


----------



## Greed

Concero, BH Crack + Speedball, and room for upgraded cables as well.


----------



## koiloco

cdcollector said:


> What about solid state?


 
 I have only listened to SS above $1500 price point so I can't comment.  My $170 Emotiva is excellent for HE500 but doesn't pair well with HD800 in my set up.
 Sonido recently put the quickie and crack in front of the Emotiva and according to him, he got pretty good synergy with this chain for his HD800.  I also tried putting my Woo WA22 => Emotiva => HD800.  It did sound better but to my ears, not optimal even in comparison to WA22 alone.  I personally found tube amps more suitable for 
HD800 and my taste.  Btw, Glenn can make you an OTL for the HD800.  There are quite a few happy owners of Glenn's amps driving HD800's.  Check the thread out.
$1500 is pretty good for DAC/amp combo.  I have found that HD800 is very amp "sensitive" but not as picky like others have suggested.  Even from a low end amp, HD800 will still sound like HD800; it has a very strong sound signature.  Take your time and look around.


----------



## WNBC

Buddy is lending me his Violectric V200 and I'll let you know.  Should be a very good pairing.
  
  
 Quote:


cdcollector said:


> What about solid state?


----------



## CDCollector

Thanks for all your recommendations. I gather these headphones work best with tubes, which is something I wanted to avoid but now am not sure I should.
  
 It is difficult to make a decision without the opportunity of listening to the gear first -which is impossible here- and at the prices involved one really cannot afford to make the wrong one.


----------



## koiloco

cdcollector said:


> Thanks for all your recommendations. I gather these headphones work best with tubes, which is something I wanted to avoid but now am not sure I should.
> 
> It is difficult to make a decision without the opportunity of listening to the gear first -which is impossible here- and at the prices involved one really cannot afford to make the wrong one.


 
 Based on your location and circumstances, I personally would go with solid state too.  The Sein HDVD800 DAC/Amp is a little above your budget but maybe keep an eye out for a used one?  Then, there's $900 Woo WA7 DAC/Amp which I have personally listened to.  It sounds wonderful with HD800 but it's also a tube amp(much less tube rolling though)


----------



## CDCollector

koiloco said:


> Based on your location and circumstances, I personally would go with solid state too.  The Sein HDVD800 DAC/Amp is a little above your budget but maybe keep an eye out for a used one?  Then, there's $900 Woo WA7 DAC/Amp which I have personally listened to.  It sounds wonderful with HD800 but it's also a tube amp(much less tube rolling though)


 
  
 I've looked at the Sennheiser amp/DAC but oddly enough have not encountered too many references. One could expect it to suit these headphones particularly well. Anyone here actually uses it?


----------



## 7ryder

koiloco said:


> Based on your location and circumstances, I personally would go with solid state too.  The Sein HDVD800 DAC/Amp is a little above your budget but maybe keep an eye out for a used one?  Then, there's $900 Woo WA7 DAC/Amp which I have personally listened to.  It sounds wonderful with HD800 but it's also a tube amp(much less tube rolling though)


 
 you can always test drive the HDVD800 from Crutchfield risk free for a month.  It is a little bit above your budget, but you might find out it is all you need.


----------



## Maxvla

7ryder said:


> you can always test drive the HDVD800 from Crutchfield risk free for a month.  It is a little bit above your budget, but you might find out it is all you need.



I could be wrong, but I doubt Crutchfield sells to Colombia.

As far as solid state with HD800 under $1000 (to fit with Concero $600) I haven't heard anything I would say is as good as the CSP2+, not even close. The Mjolnir is a good option on a budget, but if you can handle tubes, the CSP2+ is significantly better for the extra price. Otherwise I would say go with a Matrix M-Stage HPA-2 (~$280) and save your pennies for eventual Headamp GS-X 2 (~$2800), the only high end solid state that can hang with tube amps (have not heard Cavalli Liquid Gold, but at $6500, it's well beyond my limit). Concero + HPA-2 if you must go solid state. The Concero HP is a good alternative for slightly worse sound in a microscopic package size and it is a little cheaper than the Concero + HPA-2 combo.


----------



## WNBC

Great to hear that the Decware amp is top notch because I have no intention of buying any additional tube amps so it's my CSP3 for the long haul.  The Bottlehead amps are highly regarded when paired with a HD800.  Did you ever get a chance to hear one of them with a HD800?
  
  
 Quote:


maxvla said:


> I could be wrong, but I doubt Crutchfield sells to Colombia.
> 
> As far as solid state with HD800 under $1000 (to fit with Concero $600) I haven't heard anything I would say is as good as the CSP2+, not even close. The Mjolnir is a good option on a budget, but if you can handle tubes, the CSP2+ is significantly better for the extra price. Otherwise I would say go with a Matrix M-Stage HPA-2 (~$280) and save your pennies for eventual Headamp GS-X 2 (~$2800), the only high end solid state that can hang with tube amps (have not heard Cavalli Liquid Gold, but at $6500, it's well beyond my limit). Concero + HPA-2 if you must go solid state. The Concero HP is a good alternative for slightly worse sound in a microscopic package size and it is a little cheaper than the Concero + HPA-2 combo.


----------



## Maxvla

Not with the HD800. I heard one with HD650 off Bottlehead's tape rig at RMAF 2011 and was completely underwhelmed. I believe it was a Crack w/ Speedball, but it could have been the standard. I don't recall. I don't intend to own a Bottlehead product based on that experience. I'd be willing to give one another try at a meet/etc, though.

The CSP2+ is excellent, but I don't doubt there are other tube amps just beyond it's price point that can bypass it. I've never heard a Zana Duex and that is one of the most popular HD800 amps at that price point. I'm not as anti-tube rolling as I was a year ago, but I'd still rather not bother with it, so above the Bryston BHA-1, there is almost nothing solid state except DIY or GS-X2, which happened to be a perfect match. The other SS options like the Bakoon and Liquid Gold are more than I am comfortable spending.


----------



## WNBC

What I like about the Decware amp is that one could go with stock tubes and be happy for a long time.  
  
 I'm thinking the V200 will work well with the HD800.  I believe the designer uses the HD800 as his testing headphone with this amp.  I owned one in the past and it was pretty good with the planars.  The shortcoming was mainly in soundstage width.  HD800 has some width to spare.  Plus this amp can be had for $700-900 on the used market.  If it doesn't sound as good as my tube amp I'll let you know.  Since I am just getting it on loan there will be no purchase bias 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  I'm not expecting miracles as the owner said he still preferred tube amps but he liked the V200 as a solid state alternative.
   
  
  
 Quote:


maxvla said:


> Not with the HD800. I heard one with HD650 off Bottlehead's tape rig at RMAF 2011 and was completely underwhelmed. I believe it was a Crack w/ Speedball, but it could have been the standard. I don't recall. I don't intend to own a Bottlehead product based on that experience. I'd be willing to give one another try at a meet/etc, though.
> 
> The CSP2+ is excellent, but I don't doubt there are other tube amps just beyond it's price point that can bypass it. I've never heard a Zana Duex and that is one of the most popular HD800 amps at that price point. I'm not as anti-tube rolling as I was a year ago, but I'd still rather not bother with it, so above the Bryston BHA-1, there is almost nothing solid state except DIY or GS-X2, which happened to be a perfect match. The other SS options like the Bakoon and Liquid Gold are more than I am comfortable spending.


----------



## brunk

wnbc said:


>


 
 The V200 is a great amp, and is incredibly versatile. Good German pairing all around.


----------



## Maxvla

I will have a Violectric V181 balanced amp and V800 balanced DAC to try in a week or so. I am looking forward to trying their gear as I've never heard any of it before.


----------



## Sonido

maxvla said:


> Not with the HD800. I heard one with HD650 off Bottlehead's tape rig at RMAF 2011 and was completely underwhelmed. I believe it was a Crack w/ Speedball, but it could have been the standard. I don't recall. I don't intend to own a Bottlehead product based on that experience. I'd be willing to give one another try at a meet/etc, though.


 
 I own a few Bottlehead products in the Crack and Quickie. I also used to own the Woo Audio WA7, the only other tube amp I've tried. I also used to have the HD700, and I found the WA7 to sound slightly better than the Crack for the HD700. The Crack did sound better for my Beyerdynamic T90 than WA7. I have sold both the HD700 and WA7 since, so I can't compare directly or use the WA7 with HD800. I got the Bottlehead Quickie later on to use for my speaker amp setup for my HE-500. I got my HD800 about a week ago, and really only had the Crack to drive them, and it sounded okay. Out of curiously, I tried the HD800 with my HE-500 setup (Quickie + Emotiva), and while it had some noise floor issues, I was quite surprised when it sounded better than the Crack for the HD800! For one the sound became much more intimate and engaging, especially vocals. I reported this find on the Bottlehead forums and was encouraged to try the Quickie with the Crack. I was hesitant at first because I had never heard of using a preamp with a headphone amp, but to my surprise, not only did it sound even better than Quickie + Emotiva, it had a dead silent noise floor. So right now I'm using Quickie + Crack to drive my HD800, and it's sounding very musical and engaging. Comparing Quickie + Crack with Crack alone for the HD800, the difference is quite significant. I tried the HD800 with just the Emotiva alone, and as others have reported with that pairing, it sounded pretty bad. But the fact the Quickie + Emotiva was even better than Crack alone for the HD800, and also the significant improvement from adding the Quickie to the Crack made, has me concluding that the Quickie is pulling a lot a weight in the sound of my chain for the HD800.


----------



## pdrm360

sonido said:


> I own a few Bottlehead products in the Crack and Quickie. I also used to own the Woo Audio WA7, the only other tube amp I've tried. I also used to have the HD700, and I found the WA7 to sound slightly better than the Crack for the HD700. The Crack did sound better for my Beyerdynamic T90 than WA7. I have sold both the HD700 and WA7 since, so I can't compare directly or use the WA7 with HD800. I got the Bottlehead Quickie later on to use for my speaker amp setup for my HE-500. I got my HD800 about a week ago, and really only had the Crack to drive them, and it sounded okay. Out of curiously, I tried the HD800 with my HE-500 setup (Quickie + Emotiva), and while it had some noise floor issues, I was quite surprised when it sounded better than the Crack for the HD800! For one the sound became much more intimate and engaging, especially vocals. I reported this find on the Bottlehead forums and was encouraged to try the Quickie with the Crack. I was hesitant at first because I had never heard of using a preamp with a headphone amp, but to my surprise, not only did it sound even better than Quickie + Emotiva, it had a dead silent noise floor. So right now I'm using Quickie + Crack to drive my HD800, and it's sounding very musical and engaging. Comparing Quickie + Crack with Crack alone for the HD800, the difference is quite significant. I tried the HD800 with just the Emotiva alone, and as others have reported with that pairing, it sounded pretty bad. But the fact the Quickie + Emotiva was even better than Crack alone for the HD800, and also the significant improvement from adding the Quickie to the Crack made, has me concluding that the Quickie is pulling a lot a weight in the sound of my chain for the HD800.


 
  
 Just a suggestion, try a higher end DAC and connect it directly to the Crack.


----------



## James-uk

http://youtu.be/Zvireu2SGZM

Watch this before spending more than you need on a dac/amp . I've personally got the HDVD800 but I brought it with my eyes open and for other reasons other than just SQ. It sounds perfect with the 800s , I'm completely happy with it and have no need to buy any more components. It is an electronic device that gets the most out of the 800s, no more , no less.


----------



## GoldfishX

The V200/HD800 pairing is of interest to me, as I feel I may be reaching my limit with the Lyr. None of my tubes seem to kill off the treble spike and I have to resort to digital EQ to get it to non-fatiguing levels.
  
 I have a Cary amp coming (Nighthawk) that I plan to use at work with my Mad Dogs, but I will definitely give it a quick tryout with the HD800. I'm not expecting a miracle there though, but stranger things have happened...


----------



## Rayzilla

Just got home and ready to eat dinner but I have just joined the club. And I couldn't hold off on the amp purchase and got everything now.


----------



## longbowbbs

maxvla said:


> 7ryder said:
> 
> 
> > you can always test drive the HDVD800 from Crutchfield risk free for a month.  It is a little bit above your budget, but you might find out it is all you need.
> ...


 
 I concur with the CSP2+ here. However, it has been discontinued and the new CSP3+ runs about $400 more. I have not heard a CSP3+, but I would buy one for the HD800's since my CSP2+ was awesome and the new one has a few nice upgrades.


----------



## CDCollector

maxvla said:


> I could be wrong, but I doubt Crutchfield sells to Colombia.
> 
> As far as solid state with HD800 under $1000 (to fit with Concero $600) I haven't heard anything I would say is as good as the CSP2+, not even close. The Mjolnir is a good option on a budget, but if you can handle tubes, the CSP2+ is significantly better for the extra price. Otherwise I would say go with a Matrix M-Stage HPA-2 (~$280) and save your pennies for eventual Headamp GS-X 2 (~$2800), the only high end solid state that can hang with tube amps (have not heard Cavalli Liquid Gold, but at $6500, it's well beyond my limit). Concero + HPA-2 if you must go solid state. The Concero HP is a good alternative for slightly worse sound in a microscopic package size and it is a little cheaper than the Concero + HPA-2 combo.


 
  
 I have a shipping address in the U.S. so delivery wouldn't be a problem. The issue for me is I can not sample any gear before buying it, so I must make the decision blindfolded so to speak, and can not afford to make the wrong one. This is quite an expensive hobby.
  
 Tube sound I'm not entirely convinced I'll like. SS I know and like.
  
 Another thing is, I only listen to music at very moderate volumes. Is this a factor to consider when determining how much to spend on an amp? Maybe the money could be best allocated on a better DAC?


----------



## LugBug1

rayzilla said:


> Just got home and ready to eat dinner but I have just joined the club. And I couldn't hold off on the amp purchase and got everything now.


 
 Congrats! What amp did you go for?


----------



## WNBC

In my opinion the amp is important at all levels of listening so I wouldn't use it as a factor in spending more on a DAC.  However, some headphones are not strong at low levels.  I couldn't tell you the engineering reasoning for this but there are lots of energy analogies in enzymology.  The HD800 is very good at low levels.  
  
 There's a huge range of opinions when it comes to the importance of DACs.  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/689783/december-2013-mid-level-dac-comparison
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/ranking-of-17-dacs-and-dac-configurations
  
 I have heard DACs that I didn't think were great, but these were not controlled tests so I won't make any big claims.  For me the spending importance goes Amp > DAC because one does not have to spend a lot to get a technically great DAC.  One pays for the extra features.  I have heard the HD800 is picky with sources and DACs.  I've been lucky in that the Ciunas DAC and HD800 work well together so I'm not going to DAC roll.    
  
 Since you are listening to a lot of CDs would you consider an Oppo BDP 103?  You can use it as a computer DAC as well just play CDs and feed the signal to your amp.  I had the BDP-105 and I found it quite capable for computer audio as well as a CD player.  Turns out I just wasn't using its capacity as a Blu Ray player and I wanted to try other things.  Lots of reviews out there on these Oppos.  I'm guessing you'll still need to pair it with a headphone amp.  I'm sure other people have tried it with the HD800 and no external amp.  
  
 If the Ciunas + V200 sound almost on par with my Ciunas + CSP3 then I would strongly recommend taking a look at the V200.  The V200 also plays well with other headphones you might try down the road.  
  
 As for tubes vs SS amps.  I came into this hobby 4 years ago with no ideas about DACs, tubes, SS, etc.  Now having owned both SS and tube amps I've determined tube rolling is not hard unless one wants to consider the uber expensive tubes.  There is a time and place for both SS and tube amps.  Tube amps can be highly engaging and dynamic.  I am a fan of them.  
  
 Quote:


cdcollector said:


> Tube sound I'm not entirely convinced I'll like. SS I know and like.
> 
> Another thing is, I only listen to music at very moderate volumes. Is this a factor to consider when determining how much to spend on an amp? Maybe the money could be best allocated on a better DAC?


----------



## brunk

^ Good call on the Oppo, given his preferences.


----------



## DarKen23

koiloco said:


> cdcollector said:
> 
> 
> > What about solid state?
> ...


 
 What do you mean "it has a strong sound sig"? Would you care to elaborate?


----------



## bearFNF

wnbc said:


> Since you are listening to a lot of CDs would you consider an* Oppo BDP 103? You can use it as a computer DAC *as well just play CDs and feed the signal to your amp.


 
 The 103 does not work as a computer DAC, I have one, it's only the 105 that has the USB Sabre DAC...
 I do like the 103 though, FWIW.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for the clarification.  
  
 If CDCollector already has a CD player then maybe put the money into the amp first then decide on a DAC later. 
    
  
 Quote:


bearfnf said:


> The 103 does not work as a computer DAC, I have one, it's only the 105 that has the USB Sabre DAC...
> I do like the 103 though, FWIW.


----------



## James-uk

I was trying to explain to a friend today why the HD800 is so great. I even pulled up some innerfidelity graphs to aid my explanation. I also showed him the sr-009 ones to show the reasons why I would consider them as well as the 800s as technically best HP available today. Now looking at this data along with some waterfall plots i honestly think the HD800 is technically better than the stax. I mean it's as quick in its decay if not slightly quicker and that's the biggest e-stat trump card usually. Thoughts?


----------



## koiloco

darken23 said:


> What do you mean "it has a strong sound sig"? Would you care to elaborate?


 
 IMO, the HD800 retains the way it sounds very well on different amps ranging from my Fiio E17 DAC/Amp, to the next up Fiio E09K, crack, Emotiva, Integrated amp and finally WA22.  The sound quality improves or worsen depending on each amp but I can still hear the same strong/forward mid, cold upper mid, the sound stage.  Hope I answered your question.


----------



## CDCollector

How about the BDA-1 + BHA-1? If one is going to spend that much on a pair of headphones, one might as well do this right.
  
 Regarding the CD player, I'd rather get one that didn't much or, ideally, anything besides playing CDs. I wouldn't use bluray or any other functions. I know of CD transports, but again they're more expensive. I'm looking at the Marantz CD6005. How good of DAC might the one included with the CD6005 be? Maybe just the CD6005 plus the BHA-1 for now might cut it.


----------



## Rayzilla

lugbug1 said:


> Congrats! What amp did you go for?


 
 I kind of went a bit off track and picked up the Line Magnetic Mini 218 IA as the amp and the Line Magnetic 502CA dac. I'm about to leave for work soon so I'll have to come back to this later tonight.
  
  
 Here's a quick review on the dac:
 http://www.witchdoctor.co.nz/index.php/2013/06/line-magnetic-lm-502ca-vacuum-tube-dac-review/
  
 And here's a little bit on the Mini 218 IA amp:
 http://audioshark.org/amplifiers-8/cool-tube-gear-line-magnetic-680-page2.html#.UsniHWQW1Kk


----------



## DarKen23

koiloco said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > What do you mean "it has a strong sound sig"? Would you care to elaborate?
> ...


You have, sorta. I understand what you are referring to with the changes in amps and other components. 

I just didn't know you meant by "strong sound signature", cold, warm, you know.


----------



## koiloco

darken23 said:


> You have, sorta. I understand what you are referring to with the changes in amps and other components.
> 
> I just didn't know you meant by "strong sound signature", cold, warm, you know.


 
 Maybe, dominant would be a better term than strong.


----------



## froger

koiloco said:


> IMO, the HD800 retains the way it sounds very well on different amps ranging from my Fiio E17 DAC/Amp, to the next up Fiio E09K, crack, Emotiva, Integrated amp and finally WA22.  The sound quality improves or worsen depending on each amp but I can still hear the same strong/forward mid, cold upper mid, the sound stage.  Hope I answered your question.


 
 What DAC/s did you use when you are hearing the HD800 with all these different amps? In my experience, DAC plays just as important/more important a role as the amplifier in imparting a sound signature on HD800. Compared to other TOTL headphones, I felt that HD800 can change its sound signature more than the rest, using different DACs and amplifiers.


----------



## preproman

Got my baby back..


----------



## BournePerfect

That's gorgeous Prep! That the Colorware gloss black? I wish I could see it next to Maxvla's matte to see which I prefer. Been thinking about going that route...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## preproman

Thanks D,
  
 Yup the Gloss black.  Maxvla and Greed both have the Matte Black..  Greeds has his pair at SAA getting some major work done..  Can't wait for his impressions..


----------



## BournePerfect

Is he getting the full SAA mod done to his? Would be interested in hearing his impressions too-thanks.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## LugBug1

rayzilla said:


> I kind of went a bit off track and picked up the Line Magnetic Mini 218 IA as the amp and the Line Magnetic 502CA dac. I'm about to leave for work soon so I'll have to come back to this later tonight.
> 
> 
> Here's a quick review on the dac:
> ...


 
 They look really cool. Especially the tube dac, don't see many of those. Feel free to give us some impressions


----------



## preproman

bourneperfect said:


> Is he getting the full SAA mod done to his? Would be interested in hearing his impressions too-thanks.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 Yup...
  
 OT..   What's your next DAC?  Got a chance to hear the Lampi G4 L4 this weekend - MAN I tell you.. I would like to have side by side with the ARM.


----------



## LugBug1

preproman said:


> Got my baby back..


 
 About time too!! Dang those look good


----------



## preproman

lugbug1 said:


> About time too!! Dang those look good


 
 Yeah - Sike is a real good person.  Glad to do business with a person of her caliber.


----------



## koiloco

Very nice!  I can see finger prints on the cup outer rings!
 Also, does it sound "darker" now?


----------



## preproman

koiloco said:


> Very nice!  I can see finger prints on the cup outer rings!
> Also, does it sound "darker" now?


 
 Yeah I forgot to clean them off.  huh?  That 70D picks up everything...  Darker - no..  Richer - yes


----------



## koiloco

preproman said:


> Yeah I forgot to clean them off.  huh?  That 70D picks up everything...  Darker - no..  Richer - yes


 

 How much did that paint job set you back? and how long did it take them?


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> Yeah I forgot to clean them off.  huh?  That 70D picks up everything...  Darker - no..  Richer - yes


 
 can you post pics of your rig - maybe? Would love to see some.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I got a new camera this week myself  -  i need to shrink some of the images before i post.


----------



## preproman

magiccabbage said:


> can you post pics of your rig - maybe? Would love to see some.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have to clean up first.  I don't have a head amp at the moment.  Only speaker amps.  What camera did you get.  Why you have to shrink them down.


----------



## preproman

koiloco said:


> How much did that paint job set you back? and how long did it take them?


 
  
 I bought them brand new from CW.  It cost me the MSRP of $1.5K.  Now I think they are taking used pairs in for re paint jobs.  You have to check with them though.  I don't know what that would cost.


----------



## BournePerfect

preproman said:


> Yup...
> 
> OT..   What's your next DAC?  Got a chance to hear the Lampi G4 L4 this weekend - MAN I tell you.. I would like to have side by side with the ARM.


 
  
 I refuse to talk about dacs until I get more money lol. I'm still absolutely loving the Eximus after all these years honestly-it just does it for me with the Senns. My next jump will definitely bein the 5-8K range-probably with the Overdrive SE at the forefront. I fully intend on getting the Yggdrasil the day it comes out though as that should offer some huge value I'd imagine.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## preproman

bourneperfect said:


> I refuse to talk about dacs until I get more money lol. I'm still absolutely loving the Eximus after all these years honestly-it just does it for me with the Senns. My next jump will definitely bein the 5-8K range-probably with the Overdrive SE at the forefront. I fully intend on getting the Yggdrasil the day it comes out though as that should offer some huge value I'd imagine.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 OK I C.  I'll catch you in another thread when the time is right.


----------



## rawrster

preproman said:


> Got my baby back..


 
  
 Those HD800's look nice. Is that similar to how the HE6 is?


----------



## koiloco

preproman said:


> I bought them brand new from CW.  It cost me the MSRP of $1.5K.  Now I think they are taking used pairs in for re paint jobs.  You have to check with them though.  I don't know what that would cost.


 

 Thx.


----------



## preproman

rawrster said:


> Those HD800's look nice. Is that similar to how the HE6 is?


 
  
 Yes.  That's why I got it like that...  Very hard to scratch..


----------



## BournePerfect

preproman said:


> OK I C.  I'll catch you in another thread when the time is right.


 
  
 Cool. What are you running those Senns from now? I know you're waiting on another GSX but man-get an EC 2a3 soon and hear them for real. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> I have to clean up first.  I don't have a head amp at the moment.  Only speaker amps.  What camera did you get.  Why you have to shrink them down.


 
 I just have to change them to jpegs cus they are 15 mg. Got a Nikon d5200 - getting a 50mm 1.4 soon too.


----------



## magiccabbage

One 
  

  
 Two
  

  
 Three 
  

  
 Go


----------



## preproman

bourneperfect said:


> Cool. What are you running those Senns from now? I know you're waiting on another GSX but man-get an EC 2a3 soon and hear them for real.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Been talking to Craig about the 445??  I guess that's what it is.  Last time I spoke to him he said he's waiint on something or another.  I'll contact him again.


----------



## preproman

magiccabbage said:


> I just have to change them to jpegs cus they are 15 mg. Got a Nikon d5200 - getting a 50mm 1.4 soon too.


 
 Are you shooting to RAW?  The d5200 does not shoot to jpeg?


----------



## BournePerfect

preproman said:


> Been talking to Craig about the 445??  I guess that's what it is.  Last time I spoke to him he said he's waiint on something or another.  I'll contact him again.


 
 Well he's got a couple of options. The 445 for those who like 45 tubes. A few people feel the 2a3s are better though for the HD800 (preferences of course)-plus the 2a3s have roughly twice the power which is a consideration if running speakers/HE6. They are both a slight trickle-down of the Leviathan-so reading up on that may help you decide. I think Craig's still out of town last I heard.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> Are you shooting to RAW?  The d5200 does not shoot to jpeg?


 
 yea you can actually shoot to jpeg as well


----------



## Takeanidea

Tidy pics tidy setup


----------



## magiccabbage

takeanidea said:


> Tidy pics tidy setup


 
 yea - only realized after, that desk needs a good clean - its filthy.


----------



## Chris ofc

Hello everyone here,
  
 I got a bit of a problem with my HD800's, the right side is stuttering sometimes.
 I checked with different sources, / amps / dacs.. all the same problem.
 Also checked the connections / plug, they seem to be fine.
  
 Can my HD800's really be broken?, if yes.. how does sennheiser Handle it's warranty?


----------



## brunk

chris ofc said:


> Hello everyone here,
> 
> I got a bit of a problem with my HD800's, the right side is stuttering sometimes.
> I checked with different sources, / amps / dacs.. all the same problem.
> ...


 
 Have you tried re-seating the adapters at the headphone itself?


----------



## koiloco

My HD800 sounds like cr.p tonite.  I think it's hitting and will be going thru puberty.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Lucky, I have the HE500 to fall back on.


----------



## pdrm360

koiloco said:


> My HD800 sounds like cr.p tonite.  I think it's hitting and will be going thru puberty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep, a Ferrari doesn't work as a truck.


----------



## koiloco

pdrm360 said:


> Yep, a Ferrari doesn't work as a truck.


 
 So I have found out.  Weekend afternoon drive only.  What a piece of shiit.


----------



## pdrm360

koiloco said:


> So I have found out.  Weekend afternoon drive only.  What a piece of shiit.


 
  
 Actually I prefer to drive a Ferrari for day-to-day commute than a truck.


----------



## koiloco

pdrm360 said:


> Actually I prefer to drive a Ferrari for day-to-day commute than a truck.


 
 Just hope that you don't drive like an a..hole like some I've seen in the bay area in their shiny google/apple Lambo and Ferrari.


----------



## pdrm360

koiloco said:


> Just hope that you don't drive like an a..hole like some I've seen in the bay area in their shiny google/apple Lambo and Ferrari.


 
  
 And I hope you don't drive like this


----------



## pdrm360

In bay area you can see the shiny Lambo and Ferrari only in Santana Row, but in LA ....


----------



## koiloco

pdrm360 said:


> And I hope you don't drive like this


 
 lmao!  Epic pic.


----------



## bearFNF

pdrm360 said:


> And I hope you don't drive like this


 
 The truck probably has no damage to speak of and can just back up and drive away the car probably has $60k in damages...


----------



## LugBug1

chris ofc said:


> Hello everyone here,
> 
> I got a bit of a problem with my HD800's, the right side is stuttering sometimes.
> I checked with different sources, / amps / dacs.. all the same problem.
> ...


 
  
  


brunk said:


> Have you tried re-seating the adapters at the headphone itself?


 
 Yeah defo a connection problem if the sound is cutting out and then back on again. My guess is that it will be the cable. Swap the left to right of the cable connectors and see if the same happens but on the other side to rule out if it is the cable. 
  
 You just need to go onto the Sennheiser website to get info on how to contact them and send them in for repair if need be.


----------



## DarKen23

pdrm360 said:


> koiloco said:
> 
> 
> > Just hope that you don't drive like an a..hole like some I've seen in the bay area in their shiny google/apple Lambo and Ferrari.
> ...


----------



## preproman

Yor Help is needed.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/698810/the-interconnect-and-power-cable-thread


----------



## WNBC

Indeed!  I think he'll need to buy those back from you when he gets that 2359Glenn amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Quote:


preproman said:


> Yeah - Sike is a real good person.  Glad to do business with a person of her caliber.


----------



## Kendoji

koiloco said:


> My HD800 sounds like cr.p tonite.  I think it's hitting and will be going thru puberty.     Lucky, I have the HE500 to fall back on.




Haha I just had a crappy HD800 night tonight too. Nothing sounded good on them. Probably something to do with listening to M100s on the way home from work.


----------



## nigeljames

Fortunately I have never had a crappy HD800 session, just crappy recordings.


----------



## LugBug1

nigeljames said:


> Fortunately I have never had a crappy HD800 session, just crappy recordings.


 
 +1


----------



## pdrm360

And sometimes just crappy ears


----------



## Speedy Pedro

I am copying the the post that I made on the Sennheiser amp thread. Since I tested with my HD 800, I thought some might be interested in my impressions. The bottom line is that Auralic Taurus II matches very well with the HD 800 while the HDVA 600 (did not test the HDVD 800, not interested in the DAC) was actually not that great to my ears. 
  
 Post starts below
  
 -------------------------------------------
  
 Thought I would add my experience with an HDVA 600. I have not read through the entire thread so it is possible somebody has already posted a similar experience/comparison.
  
 It is not a positive one.
  
 I first heard the HDVA in April 2013 when we had the Head-fi get together in London. Sennheiser was one of the sponsors and they introduced the HDVA amps. Axel Grell, the chief designer of the HDVA 600/HDVD 800, flew in from Germany which was nice. Sennheiser also had a real Orpheus with them and that was something!
  
 I brought my Graham Slee Solo Ultralinear (with external PSU) and compared it with the HDVD on my own HD 800. The first impressions were not bad, but frankly the Sennheiser did not seem to outperform the Graham Slee at half the price. I used Sennheiser's music and and source (forget which one). 
  
 Not much later in May I went to Munich High End Show (by far the best show in Europe, been going there for years) and once again was acquainted with the Sennheiser amps. I also tried others such as Bakoon, SPL,  Auralic Taurus et al (only the Bakoon for the first time). Show conditions with other people's music are not always ideal. But again I was not fully impressed by Sennheiser. And I really wanted to like the Sennheiser - it is great looking and theoretically made for measure for my headphones. 
  
 After listening to the Sennheiser and the Auralic again on separate occasions I decided I could not commit to buying the Sennheiser without auditioning against the c. 20% more expensive Auralic Taurus.
  
 I was lucky enough that a dealer in London around the corner from my flat which carries Sennheiser was kind enough to willingly arrange for a Taurus vs Sennheiser head to head in their premises. The source was an expensive Nagra CD - so that was never going to be the weakest link.
  
 Extended time with my music allowed me to quickly come to the conclusion that I wanted to avoid. The Auralic simply smoked the Sennheiser. Not only that, but clearly (to my ears of course), the Sennheiser was simply not good enough. It is not just that the tone, soundstage et al of Auralic was better. The Sennheiser actually seemed a tad incompetent. Shocking for someone like me who has been buying Sennheiser products (albeit headphones) for so many years. One of the albums that I recall listening was Pink Floyd's well known Dark Side of the Moon. The Sennheiser actually struggles with separation and detail when the chorus of tracks such as Us and Them or Brain Damage kicks in.
  
 I bought the Auralic. Are there better amps for the HD 800 that the Taurus? Probably. But it is not the HDVA 600. Is the HDVA 600 a good amp? I don't think so at the price. 
  
 The HDVA 600 has the brand and the looks. But not the performance.
  
 For those who bought the HDVA 600 (I did not test the DAC in the HDVD 800 since I only use quality DACs for listening) I think you are NOT listening to anything close to HD 800's potential. Not by a long shot. For those thinking about buying one, I would recommend listening to other amps. I recommend the Taurus, other recommend valves.
  
 For the record, the Auralic Taurus is more powerful than the Sennheiser HDVA 600. I did not level match them scientifically. But I raised the volume on the Sennheiser to HDVA 600 sufficiently to be pleased that it was not just a question of difference in volume. In fact, raising the volume just highlighted just how less capable the Sennheiser HDVA 600 was with regards to the Auralic Taurus. It is not all about power, but the Auralic in balanced mode (which is how I run it) pumps an impressive 2000mW into the 300 ohm HD 800. The Sennheiser was nowhere near as powerful.


----------



## MickeyVee

Wow.. gouging from the M100 to the HD800 will mess with anyone's brain.  They are extremes.. I ended up selling my M100's.
  
 Quote:


kendoji said:


> Haha I just had a crappy HD800 night tonight too. Nothing sounded good on them. Probably something to do with listening to M100s on the way home from work.


 
  
 How true! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





nigeljames said:


> Fortunately I have never had a crappy HD800 session, just crappy recordings.


----------



## koiloco

pdrm360 said:


> And sometimes just crappy ears


 

 This is the most accurate diagnostic of the "HD800 sounds like crap problem".
 Last night, my remedy was putting on some DSDs.  Suddenly, everything was back in perspective.


----------



## James-uk

2000mW for a headphone that needs less than 250mW. How does this improve sq speedy Pedro?


----------



## DarKen23

speedy pedro said:


> I am copying the the post that I made on the Sennheiser amp thread. Since I tested with my HD 800, I thought some might be interested in my impressions. The bottom line is that Auralic Taurus II matches very well with the HD 800 while the HDVA 600 (did not test the HDVD 800, not interested in the DAC) was actually not that great to my ears.
> 
> Post starts below
> 
> ...


 
 Phew, good thing I didnt get the HDVA600. Thank you for your input.


----------



## Speedy Pedro

james-uk said:


> 2000mW for a headphone that needs less than 250mW. How does this improve sq speedy Pedro?


 
  
 As I said - "it is not all about power". The first key point is that the Auralic was much more powerful than the HDVA 600 and I tried to level match them as best as I could. Having said that, the Auralic seemed to effortlessly control the HD 800 (also much better than my Graham Slee) and I did not feel the same with the HDVA 600. As I said, when the choruses of the aforementioned tracks kicked in and the energy levels rose, the HDVA did struggle in a rather incompetent fashion when compared with the Auralic. It was shocking.


----------



## James-uk

I've never heard an amp that was so bad it was 'shocking' . Are you exaggerating?


----------



## koiloco

james-uk said:


> I've never heard an amp that was so bad it was 'shocking' . Are you exaggerating?


 

 HD800 even sounds decent and very enjoyable on my $100 Fiio E17 DAC/Amp.  Running the HD800 when at home from a WA22 is definitely not 25X better.


----------



## Speedy Pedro

james-uk said:


> I've never heard an amp that was so bad it was 'shocking' . Are you exaggerating?


 
 Really? I have.
  
 In this case, the "shocking" label applied in the following context: (1) the price (2) and that it was specifically designed with the HD 800 in mind.


----------



## Maxvla

james-uk said:


> I've never heard an amp that was so bad it was 'shocking' . Are you exaggerating?



I sure have, several of them. DACs are usually worse offenders, though.


----------



## Sonido

james-uk said:


> I've never heard an amp that was so bad it was 'shocking' . Are you exaggerating?



Surprised I haven't ran it straight from my phone yet, but I'll try tonight.


----------



## James-uk

Give me an example.


----------



## koiloco

speedy pedro said:


> Really? I have.
> 
> *In this case, the "shocking" label applied in the following context: (1) the price (2) and that it was specifically designed with the HD 800 in mind.*


 
 Then, this could be true in its own context.


----------



## Revogamer

I actually have tried quite a few other amps and found the HDVA600/HDVD800 beat them for the HD800 hands down - both single ended and balanced;
  
 This includes the Burson Conductor and Bryston BHA-1 - each to their own; you may not like the sound - doesn't mean it is bad


----------



## pdrm360

speedy pedro said:


> Really? I have.
> 
> In this case, the "shocking" label applied in the following context: (1) the price (2) and that it was specifically designed with the HD 800 in mind.


 
  
 Yep, they are more expensive than the WA22.   I heard the HDVA 800 with Beyer T1, it wasn't bad at all, though I didn't A/Bing it with the other amps.


----------



## koiloco

Just found out something when I got home.  I think I like the HD800 on the WA22 using low imp setting better.  I'll have to listen more tonite to confirm this.  So far, everything sounds more relaxing.


----------



## Sonido

Just tried it directly with my phone. Rumors of the HD800's demise has been greatly exaggerated. Actually doesn't sound bad at all. At least not in a sense that it hurts your ears to listen to it. Then I compare it to my Quickie + Crack setup, and the difference is apparent. Much more open, more details, and less raw sounding. Everything including vocals are much more natural and realistic sounding. However without a comparison, the HD800 direct to my phone would make most people, especially those outside of hi-fi, think these are the best headphones they've heard.


----------



## DarKen23

revogamer said:


> I actually have tried quite a few other amps and found the HDVA600/HDVD800 beat them for the HD800 hands down - both single ended and balanced;
> 
> This includes the Burson Conductor and Bryston BHA-1 - each to their own; you may not like the sound - doesn't mean it is bad


Then I doubt you've tried enough amps.


----------



## paradoxper

revogamer said:


> I actually have tried quite a few other amps and found the HDVA600/HDVD800 beat them for the HD800 hands down - both single ended and balanced;
> 
> This includes the Burson Conductor and Bryston BHA-1 - each to their own; you may not like the sound - doesn't mean it is bad


 
 What you have is always the best until you hear something better.
 I'd find it humorous if the almighty Sennheiser with the king HD800 made an amp HDVA600/VD800 that was bad.


----------



## koiloco

paradoxper said:


> What you have is always the best until you hear something better.
> I'd find it humorous if the almighty Sennheiser with the king HD800 made an amp HDVA600/VD800 that was bad.


 
 +1


darken23 said:


> Then I doubt you've tried enough amps.


 
 +1
 Both words of wisdom.


----------



## Revogamer

darken23 said:


> Then I doubt you've tried enough amps.


 
  
 Of course there is always better 

 I do like the HDVD800 for the price i get though - it is about $200 more than a Woo WA7 for me  
  
 Much cheaper than the V800/V200 combo too~

 Although most likely a better dac for me next - then a WA22


----------



## koiloco

revogamer said:


> Of course there is always better
> 
> I do like the HDVD800 for the price i get though - *it is about $200 more than a Woo WA7 for me  *
> 
> ...


 
  
 What the heck!  That's a killer deal.  Wow.


----------



## akhyar

That is a very good price considering the HDVD800 is selling at double the price of the WA7.
Having said that I'm happy with the pairing of HD800 and WA7 that I have right now.
But in future if the budget allow, I'm thinking of better DAC and WA22


----------



## koiloco

akhyar said:


> That is a very good price considering the HDVD800 is selling at double the price of the WA7.
> Having said that I'm happy with the pairing of *HD800 and WA7* that I have right now.
> But in future if the budget allow, I'm thinking of better DAC and* WA22*


 
 Both are wonderful with HD800.  The WA22 will cost you a bit more with upgraded tubes.  I find the WA7 really hits the spot with HD800 + it looks dang gorgeous.


----------



## Sonido

I kinda wish I hadn't sold the WA7 so quickly so I could try out how it pairs with the HD800. Then again, had I kept it, I probably couldn't afford the HD800. From what I remember though, I found the WA7 less warm than the Crack. For example, I found the Beyerdynamic T90 to pair better with the Crack since it's a very bright headphone with treble peaks and sibilance galore. I liked the HD700 on the WA7 better because the HD700 had a fuller bottom end, and the Crack made it a bit dark sounding. I'd gather I'd prefer the Crack more just because I found that even through the Crack alone, the HD800 was still a bit bright and thin sounding to me, and it was really adding the Quickie to the chain that got it right.


----------



## Marshal Banana

During more than half a year I tried several gears with the HD800 for my quest of the best pairing for them and to my ears.
  
 I tried some very expensive gears like EPA-007+ the dac HD-7A92, or some Luxman's high end gear (P-700u and P-1u with DA-06) or Triode gears...and I ended buying a hdvd800.
  
 I've never tried the Taurus then but I think the HDVD800 and hdva600 do the job very very nicely.


----------



## PleasantSounds

sonido said:


> I kinda wish I hadn't sold the WA7 so quickly so I could try out how it pairs with the HD800. Then again, had I kept it, I probably couldn't afford the HD800. From what I remember though, I found the WA7 less warm than the Crack. For example, I found the Beyerdynamic T90 to pair better with the Crack since it's a very bright headphone with treble peaks and sibilance galore. I liked the HD700 on the WA7 better because the HD700 had a fuller bottom end, and the Crack made it a bit dark sounding. I'd gather I'd prefer the Crack more just because I found that even through the Crack alone, the HD800 was still a bit bright and thin sounding to me, and it was really adding the Quickie to the chain that got it right.


 
  
 I had an opportunity to compare the WA7 with Crack (without Speedball) at a meet a few months back. What was most noticeable the WA7 was smoother and more detailed. Mind you, it was using the cryo treated EH gold pin tubes, which probably are the pick of the crop. We have tried Crack with 5 or 6 different tubes and while it definitely made a diffference, the WA7 was always better sounding. Perhaps the Speedball could make a difference. We haven't used Quickie but Crack was fed from audio-gd NFB-5.2 used as a DAC/pre-amp.


----------



## Sonido

pleasantsounds said:


> I had an opportunity to compare the WA7 with Crack (without Speedball) at a meet a few months back. What was most noticeable the WA7 was smoother and more detailed. Mind you, it was using the cryo treated EH gold pin tubes, which probably are the pick of the crop. We have tried Crack with 5 or 6 different tubes and while it definitely made a diffference, the WA7 was always better sounding. Perhaps the Speedball could make a difference. We haven't used Quickie but Crack was fed from audio-gd NFB-5.2 used as a DAC/pre-amp.


 

 Yeah I had the EH upgrade tubes when I had the WA7. It was definitely a significant difference, especially in the bass for the HD700. Ultimately I chose to sell both the WA7 and HD700 because the HE-500 with speaker amp did everything better than the HD700 imo. Like I said, I liked the WA7 better than Crack for the HD700, so it could very well be great for Sennheisers. With the stock Crack (no speedball) that I have, I demoed with my friend's HD800 and came away unimpressed. This was before I had the Quickie. I only got the HD800 because of the $890 sale price. Comparing the Crack alone with the Quickie in the chain, I found it was big difference. I did other comparisons and concluded that the Quickie is pulling most of the weight/imparting its sound in the chain. In fact, I found when the Quickie was added to my Emotiva, a solid state speaker amp I use for my HE-500, and is not optimized for HD800 to actually sound better than Crack alone. The Emotiva alone, like many have reported, sounds pretty bad with the HD800. Of course, depending on gain stages the Quickie could very well work with the WA7 with no noise floor problems. Luckily the Crack matches the gain stage with the Quickie so it's dead silent. I've had the Speedball kit since the Crack kit arrived, but just haven't bothered to install it yet. Looks like I'll be adding it soon.
  
 Also, I was never a big fan of the DAC that came with the WA7. I found that my current D3 DAC to be better in terms of detail retrieval. At that $1000 price, if I were to buy Woo Audio again, I would get the WA2. It's been my experience getting a specific amp for a specific headphone results in the best value for the sound, rather than getting a versatile amp. I'm definitely more esoteric in my gear compared to when I got the WA7.


----------



## akhyar

koiloco said:


> Both are wonderful with HD800.  The WA22 will cost you a bit more with upgraded tubes.  I find the WA7 really hits the spot with HD800 + it looks dang gorgeous.


 
  
 It indeed looks gorgeous and has a very high WAF.
 My wife gives her thumbs up when I power on the WA7.
  
 Not sure if she'll do the same if I bring home the WA2 or WA22


----------



## catspaw

sonido said:


> Just tried it directly with my phone. Rumors of the HD800's demise has been greatly exaggerated. Actually doesn't sound bad at all. At least not in a sense that it hurts your ears to listen to it. Then I compare it to my Quickie + Crack setup, and the difference is apparent. Much more open, more details, and less raw sounding. Everything including vocals are much more natural and realistic sounding. However without a comparison, the HD800 direct to my phone would make most people, especially those outside of hi-fi, think these are the best headphones they've heard.


 
 Im quite sure people who say that the HDVD600/800 + HD800 is bad are as right as those who say its good (Im sort of simplyfing it). 
 After all Sound is subjective right?
 I know waht you mean sonido.
 The Right amp/Dac might "Add" some quality, but if there has to BE quality in the first place and even a non-audiophile can notice that.


----------



## Sorrodje

Is there anyone who compared a Rega dac and a Benchmark DAC1 with his HD800 here ? as pure dac and as DAC/AMP ?   i'm interested in a used Benchmark at good price but I really appreciate the Rega warmth and I'm afraid to loose too much euphony with the Benchmark.


----------



## Greed

Honestly the Crack doesn't offer the tremendous value without the Speedball upgrade. The sound is much better.


----------



## magiccabbage

greed said:


> Honestly the Crack doesn't offer the tremendous value without the Speedball upgrade. The sound is much better.


 
 eh greed - what is the buffalo 3 like compared to the Nad M51? Wrong thread and all but i thought i'd ask.


----------



## pdrm360

Has anyone compared the "Crack + Speedball" to the Lyr for the HD800?


----------



## Greed

magiccabbage said:


> eh greed - what is the buffalo 3 like compared to the Nad M51? Wrong thread and all but i thought i'd ask.


 
  
 I'll pm you soon to avoid derailing the thread.


----------



## magiccabbage

greed said:


> I'll pm you soon to avoid derailing the thread.


 
 thanks.


----------



## eantala

hi guys Im getting my hd800 tomorrow 
is BH Crack Speedball / Lafigaro 339 / Mjolnir pretty good matches for the hd800?

I know these are suppose to scale up to the wazoo but it may be a while before I could get something else, unless I drastically cull the herd.


----------



## koiloco

Crack = yes.
 339 = should be good though I haven't heard 1 to confirm
 Mjolnir = not to my ears.


----------



## jsgraha

I've heard mjolnir with hd800. Pairing them with a nice dac, like m51 and vega (at my local shop), actually it was very nice. I like the tonality. For my ears and my taste, the only issue was it seem a bit too forward though. Coupled with my source at home (which have forward sound signature), I think it will be a bit too much for my taste.

So I guess with mjolnir & hd800, it will depend on the source.


----------



## koiloco

jsgraha said:


> I've heard mjolnir with hd800. Pairing them with a nice dac, like m51 and vega (at my local shop), actually it was very nice. I like the tonality.* For my ears and my taste, the only issue was it seem a bit too forward though*. Coupled with my source at home (which have forward sound signature), I think it will be a bit too much for my taste.
> 
> So I guess with mjolnir & hd800, *it will depend on the source.*


 
 +1


----------



## rawrster

I definitely agree about the Mjolnir. When I had that amp with the HD800 and the Buffalo III DAC it was a very good pairing. I also tried the Anedio D1 and the pairing wasn't very good and I consider the dac in the D1 a very good dac.


----------



## wink

Quote:Greed 





> I'll pm you soon to avoid derailing the thread.


 
 From what I hear, the M51 has better bass, but the Buffalo III has more air in the treble.


----------



## olor1n

jsgraha said:


> I've heard mjolnir with hd800. Pairing them with a nice dac, like m51 and vega (at my local shop), actually it was very nice. I like the tonality. For my ears and my taste, the only issue was it seem a bit too forward though. Coupled with my source at home (which have forward sound signature), I think it will be a bit too much for my taste.
> 
> So I guess with mjolnir & hd800, it will depend on the source.


 
  
 I like the control and attack of the Mjolnir paired with the smoothness and bass of the M51. Soundstage depth is more compressed though, when compared to the Vali.


----------



## drez

sonido said:


> Just tried it directly with my phone. Rumors of the HD800's demise has been greatly exaggerated. Actually doesn't sound bad at all. At least not in a sense that it hurts your ears to listen to it. Then I compare it to my Quickie + Crack setup, and the difference is apparent. Much more open, more details, and less raw sounding. Everything including vocals are much more natural and realistic sounding. However without a comparison, the HD800 direct to my phone would make most people, especially those outside of hi-fi, think these are the best headphones they've heard.


 
  
 At a recent meet we compared HD800 from laptop line out, Dragonfly, and BCL amp.  My main observation was a progressive improvements in dynamics and openness.  They sound OK from headphone out but just kind of lifeless and sleepy.


----------



## Swolern

Hello everyone. I got some HD800 a couple weeks ago. And now i am on a continuous hunt for the best flac files for my headphones as everyone knows how picky these cans can be. Even many flac files just dont do these headphones justice. Can anyone provide a link to top tracks for these headphones to really show off its massive soundstage. Looking for the most 3 dimensional recordings. 
  
 I like ALL types of music from A-Z. My favorite albums I have found so far are Wycliffe Gordon: Dreams of New Orleans(as i love trumpets & trombones) & Michael Jackson: Thriller was great.


----------



## Sorrodje

swolern said:


> Michael Jackson: Thriller was great.


 
  
  
 Through a HD800 ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  
 Recently I find Music that sounds fantastic through HD800 . It's not my preferred genre but to my ears , HD800 reproduces its atmosphere and sound textures in a very enjoyable way: 
  

  
http://tamas-olejnik.bandcamp.com/album/calm
  
  
 In Classical & Contemporary Jazz , I've many many recordings that sound amazing with HD800. These Last Days for example I listen to this :


----------



## TheDuke990

sorrodje said:


> Through a HD800 ?


 
  
 HD800 is definetely not only excellent for classic.
 It is awesome in a lot genres like Jazz, Instrumental and good Pop/Rock/Blues as well.
 Recently I listen to Jamiroquai, Green Day, James Brown, Amos Lee, Keb Mo, Rammstein and some other stuff like this and the sound was awesome. For me much better than out of LCD-X or my Beyer 880. So clear and the bass performance is exactly what is stored on the record. Not sounded or overpowered like some other headphones do.
  
  
 Edit: thanks for the last video. Very nice song.


----------



## drez

theduke990 said:


> HD800 is definetely not only excellent for classic.
> It is awesome in a lot genres like Jazz, Instrumental and good Pop/Rock/Blues as well.
> Recently I listen to Jamiroquai, Green Day, James Brown, Amos Lee, Keb Mo, Rammstein and some other stuff like this and the sound was awesome. For me much better than out of LCD-X or my Beyer 880. So clear and the bass performance is exactly what is stored on the record. Not sounded or overpowered like some other headphones do.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good old Rammstein - strangely I find they sound the same no matter what I upgrade in my system though.


----------



## Sorrodje

theduke990 said:


> HD800 is definetely not only excellent for classic.


 
  
 I'm perfectly convinced of this point myself but I really can't listen to to My edition of "thriller" ( 20th ANV remaster blabla ) more than a few seconds.  
  
 You can see My last.fm profile to see what I listen to most of my time


----------



## TheDuke990

sorrodje said:


> I'm perfectly convinced of this point myself but I really can't listen to to My edition of "thriller" ( 20th ANV remaster blabla ) more than a few seconds.
> 
> You can see My last.fm profile to see what I listen to most of my time


 
  
 In most cases the remastered version is worse than the original. So I understand your point. Bad records are really hard to enjoy by listening with HD800.


----------



## Swolern

sorrodje said:


> I'm perfectly convinced of this point myself but I really can't listen to to My edition of "thriller" ( 20th ANV remaster blabla ) more than a few seconds.
> You can see My last.fm profile to see what I listen to most of my time


Cant wait to try out your suggestions Sorrodje. Thanks for those. Always looking for different guys top picks, my ears need more. 

Actually HDtracks.com has a 176khz / 24bit version of the Thriller and it is surprisingly really good on the HD800. Great instrument separation, clarity, and depth. You can try out samples of the high bit rate version here free. http://www.hdtracks.com/audiophile-picks/thriller-133935


----------



## Sonido

The one genre I've so far discovered the HD800 to be actually kinda bad at is metal.


----------



## WNBC

These are a good tracks for evaluating new pieces of equipment in your rig.  First link being free download   I wouldn't say it is purely the file type that don't do the HD800 justice.  I even have some of those _dreaded_ 256 MP3 files that sound just fine because the recording was done well.  I don't know Wycliffe Gordon, I'll add him to the list.  Thanks  
  
 http://www.2l.no/hires/
 http://www.hdtracks.com/open-your-ears
 http://www.hdtracks.com/explorations-in-space-and-time-binaural
 http://www.chesky.com/drchsefaands.html
  
  
 Quote:


swolern said:


> Hello everyone. I got some HD800 a couple weeks ago. And now i am on a continuous hunt for the best flac files for my headphones as everyone knows how picky these cans can be. Even many flac files just dont do these headphones justice. Can anyone provide a link to top tracks for these headphones to really show off its massive soundstage. Looking for the most 3 dimensional recordings.
> 
> I like ALL types of music from A-Z. My favorite albums I have found so far are Wycliffe Gordon: Dreams of New Orleans(as i love trumpets & trombones) & Michael Jackson: Thriller was great.


----------



## Swolern

Awesome. Thank you kind sir! I must say, I am new to this forum, but you guys have a great community here.


----------



## Maxvla

sonido said:


> The one genre I've so far discovered the HD800 to be actually kinda bad at is metal.



You must be joking.


----------



## BleaK

sonido said:


> The one genre I've so far discovered the HD800 to be actually kinda bad at is metal.




What? I love my HD800 with metal! Bands like Ayreon, Opeth, and early dream theater sounds awsome with a lot of details!


----------



## Sonido

I guess I should rephrase the metal comment. It is the only genre so far I found the HE-500 to flatly win over the HD800.


----------



## pdrm360

Actually, the HD800 isn't very bad with metal but I found some other headphones even better.


----------



## Maxvla

sonido said:


> I guess I should rephrase the metal comment. It is the only genre so far I found the HE-500 to flatly win over the HD800.



Again I will disagree. HE-500s, in my experience, don't have the dynamic contrast that is so very important with most metal, especially progressive types. I've always said HE-500s were sort of vanilla in their delivery. Good at everything, but excellent at nothing. The 800s trounce them in metal for sure.


----------



## pdrm360

maxvla said:


> Again I will disagree. HE-500s, in my experience, don't have the dynamic contrast that is so very important with most metal, especially progressive types. I've always said HE-500s were sort of vanilla in their delivery. Good at everything, but excellent at nothing. The 800s trounce them in metal for sure.


 
  
 The HD800 is also good but not excellent in metal, IMO.


----------



## koiloco

maxvla said:


> Again I will disagree. HE-500s, in my experience, don't have the dynamic contrast that is so very important with most metal, especially progressive types. I've always said HE-500s were sort of vanilla in their delivery. Good at everything, but excellent at nothing. The 800s trounce them in metal for sure.


 

 Let's just agree to disagree.  To me, my HD800 is not enjoyable with metal.  HE500 lacks dynamic contrast??? You are definitely on something or we are not talking about the same 'dynamic'.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Last time, I compared the 2 listening to some metal was ... last nite.


----------



## Maxvla

Yes they lack dynamic contrast.

If the recording calls for volume 2 to 9, the HD800 tends to give 2-7. The HE-500 gives 4-6, a smaller, more boring sound. They sound like radio dynamic compression. Radio sounds good, but it doesn't sound great.


----------



## pdrm360

sorrodje said:


> Through a HD800 ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




  
 Thanks for sharing them, I really enjoyed!


----------



## koiloco

maxvla said:


> Yes they lack dynamic contrast.
> 
> If the recording calls for volume 2 to 9, the HD800 tends to give 2-7.* The HE-500 gives 4-6, a smaller, more boring sound. They sound like radio dynamic compression*. Radio sounds good, but it doesn't sound great.


 
 Give me an F... break.  Well, we believe what we wanna believe.  Let's leave it at we disagree.


----------



## drez

maxvla said:


> Yes they lack dynamic contrast.
> 
> If the recording calls for volume 2 to 9, the HD800 tends to give 2-7. The HE-500 gives 4-6, a smaller, more boring sound. They sound like radio dynamic compression. Radio sounds good, but it doesn't sound great.




In my system he6 also suffered in dynamic contrast compared to hd800, and lacked the recovery speed to keep up with faster heavy metal. HE6 were however warmer, fuller bodied and with the right amp had better bass slam.


----------



## BournePerfect

koiloco said:


> Give me an F... break.  Well, we believe what we wanna believe.  Let's leave it at we disagree.


 
  
 Huh?? How hard is it to tell the difference between pianissimo and triple forte? Dynamics are one of the easiest things to differentiate in audio (ime) between transducers, dacs, and amps.  Not hard-and simple to discern imo. I don't know about the HE500 per se, but the LCD 2.2 were fairly lacking in dynamics. Everything just seems on the same level almost-like most compressed 'loudness wars' music these days.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## BleaK

bourneperfect said:


> Huh?? How hard is it to tell the difference between pianissimo and triple forte? Dynamics are one of the easiest things to differentiate in audio (ime) between transducers, dacs, and amps.  Not hard-and simple to discern imo. I don't know about the HE500 per se, but the LCD 2.2 were fairly lacking in dynamics. Everything just seems on the same level almost-like most compressed 'loudness wars' music these days.
> 
> -Daniel


 

 It's also why I found my HE500 to sound good with lesser recordings. The dynamic flaws and compression in the masters weren't as exposed.


----------



## Swolern

Edit: Nerve mind. The film is there on my HD800, I feel dumb.


----------



## NZtechfreak

drez said:


> In my system he6 also suffered in dynamic contrast compared to hd800, and lacked the recovery speed to keep up with faster heavy metal. HE6 were however warmer, fuller bodied and with the right amp had better bass slam.


 
  
 PRaT/transient response on the HE-6 on my system is no problem for thrash and other fast metal, to my ears easily outdoes the HD800 for metal given how much better the bass and bass slam is. If I'm listening to metal I can guarantee it is on my HE-6 and not my HD800. This is of course, like your own opinion, entirely subjective.


----------



## Swolern

Double post.


----------



## preproman

drez said:


> In my system *he6 also suffered in dynamic contrast compared to hd800, and* *lacked the recovery speed to keep up with faster heavy metal*. HE6 were however warmer, fuller bodied and with the right amp had better bass slam.


 
 Strange..


----------



## eantala

I took delivery of my HD800, so far Im liking it !
I was so worried that these would be unlistenable with out Summit Fi type gear but this has been greatly overblown. Im sure they scale and get much better but they're listenable [to me] on lesser gear.

I listented to the my laptop with just a dragonfly, and then just off my HTC One listening to just 320kb streaming Spotify
(I know I'm pretty pathetic as far as being an audiophile but discovering new music I like is much more exciting to me then listening to some reference tracks for the 1000th time on some new 32bit 392khz resolution format )

I really wish I picked up these things sooner they are very high in the area that really matter to most to Transparency. Listening to Jazz the instruments sound real with a very right sounding tone and great immediacy.

I need to order the adapter to use with my Q cable so I can hook it up to Mjolnir/Gungnir stack but tonight I will try on my Bottlehead Crack and Lafigaro 339 using mhdit havana dac listening to some lossless flacs. The looks of the hd800 really match the Mjonir/Gungnir and also the Lafigaro 339 as those are also all black and silver.

Due to the transparency of this headphone, I'm thinking of sellign some gear and getting a top notch DAC and headpone.


----------



## palmfish

eantala said:


> I took delivery of my HD800, so far Im liking it !
> I was so worried that these would be unlistenable with out Summit Fi type gear but this has been greatly overblown. Im sure they scale and get much better but they're listenable [to me] on lesser gear.
> 
> I listented to the my laptop with just a dragonfly, and then just off my HTC One listening to just 320kb streaming Spotify
> ...




You arent pathetic at all. The HD 800 is one of the best headphones on the market, and it sounds amazing no matter what you plug it into. The only criticism I have for you is that you own a BH Crack and you didnt immediately plug your 800's into it...lol.


----------



## koiloco

bourneperfect said:


> Huh?? How hard is it to tell the difference between pianissimo and triple forte? Dynamics are one of the easiest things to differentiate in audio (ime) between transducers, dacs, and amps.  Not hard-and simple to discern imo. I don't know about the HE500 per se, but the LCD 2.2 were fairly lacking in dynamics. Everything just seems on the same level almost-like most compressed 'loudness wars' music these days.
> 
> -Daniel


 

 I believe I do know what dynamic is  from years of piano and violin lessons and still playing daily.  My underlined point, referring to the post about HE500 having a dynamic of 4-6 vs. HD800 2-7, is greatly exaggerated.  When the dynamic is soft/low(pp) in the music, are you telling me your LCD will play it much louder than on HD800?  Dynamic can be quite accurately measured.  Why don't we try using a sound meter and verify this myth and see how much more/less dynamic we are talking about here.  IMO, even an audio app on cell phone should gives a fairly decent measurement.


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco said:


> bourneperfect said:
> 
> 
> > Huh?? How hard is it to tell the difference between pianissimo and triple forte? Dynamics are one of the easiest things to differentiate in audio (ime) between transducers, dacs, and amps.  Not hard-and simple to discern imo. I don't know about the HE500 per se, but the LCD 2.2 were fairly lacking in dynamics. Everything just seems on the same level almost-like most compressed 'loudness wars' music these days.
> ...


 
 No!!!! Now you're bringing Objectivism in to a Subjective conversation.....


----------



## koiloco

longbowbbs said:


> No!!!! Now you're bringing Objectivism in to a Subjective conversation.....


 

 Well, if one said "to my ear" HD800 has way more dynamic than HE500 and clearly make it a subjective evaluation, I would have absolutely no problem accepting such statement.  Timbre, warm/cold, musical/analytical, those characteristics are more abstract and can't be easily measured/compared, thus very subjective.  IMO, dynamic is not one of the aforementioned.  Making such claim about dynamic difference of these HPs without disclosing your subjectivism is misleading and inaccurate cuz dynamic level/range could easily be verified.


----------



## LugBug1

Speed and a large soundstage are always better for reproducing dynamics in any hp ime. This stands to reason if you give it a little thought. These two attributes are what the HD800 excel at. So, no matter if it is classical or progressive rock they will be better than both the HE500 or LCD2 in regards to dynamic expression. Of course that's not to say they are going to be better at a certain genre of music per-say, just because that music happens to have big dynamics. That will always be a matter of personal preference. 
  
 Another example of past flagships would be the HD650 vs the K701. The AKG are far more dynamic but many may prefer how the 650 renders classical music and rock. 
  
 It's pointless separating subjective/objective with an argument such as this imo, because there can't then be a legitimate argument. Everything will be subjective and therefore hold no weight at all.
  
 [size=9.333333015441895px](and that is probably the last serious post you'll get out of me tonight. I've just opened a fresh bottle of Scotch.)[/size]


----------



## pdrm360

lugbug1 said:


> *Speed and a large soundstage are always better for reproducing dynamics in any hp* ime. This stands to reason if you give it a little thought. *These two attributes are what the HD800 excel at*. So, no matter if it is classical or progressive rock they will be better than both the HE500 or LCD2 in regards to dynamic expression. *Of course that's not to say they are going to be better at a certain genre of music per-say, just because that music happens to have big dynamics. That will always be a matter of personal preference. *
> 
> Another example of past flagships would be the HD650 vs the K701. The AKG are far more dynamic but many may prefer how the 650 renders classical music and rock.
> 
> ...


 
  
 +1  Excelent!


----------



## BournePerfect

Nice write up Lugbug. I think soundstage depth also has a lot to do w/ the perception of dynamics. Also-I don't think the point of dynamics is exaggerated-simply because I find it one of the easiest traits that distinguishes gear, and also the trait that (personally) makes music sound the most lifelike. Whether it's easily measureable or not (it is)-it's very easy to hear and understand, to a trained ear. Not subtle.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## koiloco

lugbug1 said:


> Speed and a large soundstage are always better for reproducing dynamics in any hp ime. This stands to reason if you give it a little thought. These two attributes are what the HD800 excel at. So, no matter if it is classical or progressive rock they will be better than both the HE500 or LCD2 in regards to dynamic expression. Of course that's not to say they are going to be better at a certain genre of music per-say, just because that music happens to have big dynamics. That will always be a matter of personal preference.
> 
> Another example of past flagships would be the HD650 vs the K701. The AKG are far more dynamic but many may prefer how the 650 renders classical music and rock.
> 
> ...


 
 Do you need help with that? or the answer will also be subjective? 
 Kidding asides, regarding perceived dynamic influenced by soundstage+speed, I agree with you.  If we strictly discuss dynamic itself, I would agree to disagree.  Drink responsibly...


----------



## LugBug1

bourneperfect said:


> Nice write up Lugbug.* I think soundstage depth also has a lot to do w/ the perception of dynamics. Also-I don't think the point of dynamics is exaggerated-simply because I find it one of the easiest traits that distinguishes gear, and also the trait that (personally) makes music sound the most lifelike. Whether it's easily measureable or not (it is)-it's very easy to hear and understand, to a trained ear. Not subtle.*
> 
> -Daniel


 
 Thanks. Absolutely agree and well put. 
  


koiloco said:


> Do you need help with that? or the answer will also be subjective?
> Kidding asides, regarding perceived dynamic influenced by soundstage+speed, I agree with you.  If we strictly discuss dynamic itself, I would agree to disagree.  Drink responsibly...


 
 Haha I've kind of learned not to post seriously when I've had a drink.. Because you cringe like hell in morning when you read it! 
  




  
 I'm not sure what you mean by 'dynamic itself' in relation to the context above though bud.. Surely it has to relate to the 'perceived dynamics' if we are to keep this an argument on headphones  -  (its ok I've only had a couple *hic*)


----------



## koiloco

lugbug1 said:


> Thanks. Absolutely agree and well put.
> 
> Haha I've kind of learned not to post seriously when I've had a drink.. Because you cringe like hell in morning when you read it!
> 
> ...


 

 Dynamic, as I've been trained in piano/music lessons since 6, has always been about controlling the *overall loudness*, ppp to fff per say.  Different level of dynamic of course can be achieved by finger attack speed on piano or bowing pressure/speed/angle on violin and other techniques... For me, dynamic is simply the range between the lowest volume and the highest volume. 
 I have also realized that when it comes to HPs, the *perceived dynamic* is greatly affected by what you mentioned, soundstage, HP speed...these factors make the argument a little too subjective to discuss clearly cuz we all hear/perceive things very differently.
 Btw, I love scotch but prefer tequila.  New bottle last nite too.


----------



## pdrm360

*Dynamic:* Giving an impression of wide *dynamic range*. This is related to perceived speed as well as contrasts in volume both large and small.

*Dynamic range:* 
 1) Pertaining to a signal: the ratio between the loudest and the quietest passages. 
 2) Pertaining to a component: the ratio between its no-signal noise and the loudest peak it will pass without distortion.


----------



## LugBug1

koiloco said:


> Dynamic, as I've been trained in piano/music lessons since 6, has always been about controlling the overall loudness, ppp to fff per say.  Different level of dynamic of course can be achieved by finger attack speed on piano or bowing pressure/speed/angle on violin and other techniques... For me, dynamic is simply the range between the lowest volume and the highest volume.
> I have also realized that when it comes to HPs, the perceived dynamic is greatly affected by what you mentioned, soundstage, HP speed...these factors make the argument a little too subjective to discuss clearly cuz we all hear/perceive things very differently.
> *Btw, I love scotch but prefer tequila.  New bottle last nite too.*


 
 Hmmm.... I like tequila too  
  
 I'm on my fourth large one and I've changed my avatar to the Hoff... I just can't be serious now guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 But if I could just squeeze one last little bit of sense out of my soon becoming inebriated brain, it would be that 'dynamics' is one of those terms that is not easily understood by a lot of head-fiers and this is a good healthy argument. And you've just described what 'dynamic' is very well there bud imo.
  
 *hic*


----------



## koiloco

pdrm360 said:


> *Dynamic:* Giving an impression of wide *dynamic range*. This is related to perceived speed as well as contrasts in volume both large and small.
> 
> *Dynamic range:*
> 1) Pertaining to a signal: the ratio between the loudest and the quietest passages.
> 2) Pertaining to a component: the ratio between its no-signal noise and the loudest peak it will pass without distortion.


 
 Underlined is what I mainly pointed out that both HD800 and HE500 are not that far apart like some of us want to believe.
 Your statement is red, IMO, is too subjective depending on each person's perception of what he/she is hearing therefore I wouldn't venture to argue against it.


----------



## longbowbbs

I have to find a pair of HE500's to experience them....That would be interesting.


----------



## pdrm360

koiloco said:


> Underlined is what I mainly pointed out that both HD800 and HE500 are not that far apart like some of us want to believe.
> Your statement is red, IMO, is too subjective depending on each person's perception of what he/she is hearing therefore *I wouldn't venture to argue against it*.


 
  
 Why you even think about arguing?  I like tequila too.


----------



## LugBug1

longbowbbs said:


> I have to find a pair of HE500's to experience them....That would be interesting.


 
 Defo. They are a great headphone, but judging by the very recent bit of hype concerning the new HE560 you may want to wait a little while...


----------



## longbowbbs

lugbug1 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I have to find a pair of HE500's to experience them....That would be interesting.
> ...


 
 No worries there. I do not have a dealer for them in 400 miles.


----------



## bearFNF

longbowbbs said:


> I have to find a pair of HE500's to experience them....That would be interesting.


 

 If I can get to the Minneapolis meet I will have mine there you can try out if you were thinking of going that is.


----------



## longbowbbs

It is an outside possibility. I would like to so we will see if I can make it.


----------



## pdrm360

longbowbbs said:


> No worries there. I do not have a dealer for them in 400 miles.


 
  
 You won't miss anything much!


----------



## bearFNF

pdrm360 said:


> You won't miss anything much!


 

 Guess that's one man's opinion, I personally like the HE500's quite a lot, I also like my HD800's, too...


----------



## Kendoji

My HD800s and my HE-500s are engaged in an ongoing battle for my attention. I love both. My HD800s are 'better' but I generally enjoy music on the HE-500s more. But I change my mind about that every other day.


----------



## LugBug1

kendoji said:


> My HD800s and my HE-500s are engaged in an ongoing battle for my attention. I love both. My HD800s are 'better' but I generally enjoy music on the HE-500s more. But I change my mind about that every other day.


 
 This is where it's always best to be honest with yourself. No matter how much you read that a certain headphone is 'better' technically or whatever, if it doesn't appeal to your senses with music then its not doing its job. I think the HE500 is a fantastic headphone. A great all-rounder. Nothing sounds bad on them. But also for me, nothing sounds spectacular on them either. This is where the HD800 beats them for my personal preference. Wish I could afford to still own both though..


----------



## Kendoji

lugbug1 said:


> This is where it's always best to be honest with yourself. No matter how much you read that a certain headphone is 'better' technically or whatever, if it doesn't appeal to your senses with music then its not doing its job. I think the HE500 is a fantastic headphone. A great all-rounder. Nothing sounds bad on them. But also for me, nothing sounds spectacular on them either. This is where the HD800 beats them for my personal preference. Wish I could afford to still own both though..


 
  
 The thing is my perceptions tend to shift so often that I never get to a final conclusion.  Especially with the HD800s I have amazing days and bad days.  It's a great privilege and luxury to be able to have a few different flavours around the house.


----------



## paradoxper

Considering this is the HE-500 Appreciation Thread. Yea, HE-500 walks all over HD800. 
 Just trust my ears on this one.


----------



## LugBug1

paradoxper said:


> Considering this is the HE-500 Appreciation Thread. Yea, HE-500 walks all over HD800.
> Just trust my ears on this one.


 
 Hey Cory, you got your eye on the new HE560? Seems this may be the new HD800 rival!


----------



## paradoxper

lugbug1 said:


> Hey Cory, you got your eye on the new HE560? Seems this may be the new HD800 rival!


 
 Nope, still holding out on the HD850. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'll pass on the HifiMan hype this 'round.


----------



## LugBug1

paradoxper said:


> Nope, still holding out on the HD850.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yup its started alright haha choooo choooo! 
  
 I'm lookin to get another planar though. Might try and save..


----------



## Kendoji

Unngghh it just happened again.  Fell in love with the HD800s.  One of my fave albums is a fairly obscure progressive rock album called 'A Gift For Your Dreams' by Will o' the Wisp (from Greece).  It sounds incredible on the Sennheisers.  <3


----------



## Kendoji

Btw I heard the Jade 3 beats the HD 850.


----------



## paradoxper

lugbug1 said:


> Yup its started alright haha choooo choooo!
> 
> I'm lookin to get another planar though. Might try and save..


 
 Jade 2 is a bit exciting, at least the potential is there.
  
 Haha. Yea, yea good idea, good luck with all that.


----------



## paradoxper

kendoji said:


> Btw I heard the Jade 3 beats the HD 850.


 
 I've heard the same about the Liquid Lighting III.


----------



## LugBug1

paradoxper said:


> Jade 2 is a bit exciting, at least the potential is there.
> 
> Haha. Yea, yea good idea, good luck with all that.


 
 Yeah the Jade is almost mythical these days... I'm not surprised Hifiman is releasing another. Thats sure to be a big earner. 
  
 Hey I managed to save £10 from my last wage! (but then spent it on drink on the last day before payday..)


----------



## 62ohm




----------



## Swolern

Wow I am surprised how well Vube videos sound on the HD800. A lot of new and upcoming artists on there. I posted a couple of good ones. Man that first girl is hyper!
  
 Make sure you run playback quality @1080p.
  
http://vube.com/Chiara+Grispo+Video+Channel/YL2qNPkqon?t=s&u=sLuiETTN57
  
http://vube.com/Luciana+Zogbi/vrUAREyL4J?t=s&u=sLuiETTN57
  
http://vube.com/Daniela+Andrade/P2QsqeUR9i?t=s&u=sLuiETTN57
  
  
 Man this would have been a great one with stringed instruments, very dramatic, but it was only up to 720p.
http://vube.com/Break+of+Reality/qsA9yQn1SR?t=s&u=sLuiETTN57


----------



## bearFNF

paradoxper said:


> Considering this is the HE-500 Appreciation Thread. Yea, HE-500 walks all over HD800.
> Just trust my ears on this one.


 

 What thread is it again??? I'm so confused...


----------



## BournePerfect

Yeah I couldn't tell if that was a joke or not...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## paradoxper

bourneperfect said:


> Yeah I couldn't tell if that was a joke or not...
> 
> -Daniel


 
 No, no you could not.


----------



## BournePerfect

*robotic deadpan* In that case it was HILARIOUS. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 -Daniel


----------



## DarKen23

paradoxper said:


> Considering this is the HE-500 Appreciation Thread. Yea, HE-500 walks all over HD800.
> Just trust my ears on this one.


+1


----------



## wink




----------



## koiloco

back to serious discussion.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 If you have listened to HD800 balanced vs unbalanced from the same amp, did you notice improvements?  Same? Can't tell?


----------



## Maxvla

Yes, but I put it down to the BHA-1's unbalanced not being as good as it's balanced.


----------



## Greed

Depends on the amp.


----------



## thegrobe

In the spirit of HD800 "appreciation"....

I've sold off my LCD-3. And the 800's are staying. 'nuff said.


----------



## WNBC

Nuff said, almost 
  
 I was considering the LCD-3 and we both have the same amps.  Would require selling off of my HD800s to try the LCD-3, which I am reluctant to do as it pairs well with the Decware amps.  I suspect the HD800 is one of those headphones that audiophiles have owned and sold a couple times over before coming to final opinion.    
  
 What did you not like about the LCD-3 and how did your HD800 win out over the LCD-3?  I consider myself a fan of planars so the LCD-3 was always on my radar.  I owned the LCD-2 and HE-500 in the past.  We also may have similar IEM tastes.  The Heir Audio 4 was one of my favs.      
  
  
  
 Quote:


thegrobe said:


> In the spirit of HD800 "appreciation"....
> 
> I've sold off my LCD-3. And the 800's are staying. 'nuff said.


----------



## LugBug1

The HD800 was released 12th January 2009. Time to celebrate the greatest dynamic headphone in the world! Happy Birthday! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 A party popper

  
  
  
 Some birthday balloons

  
  
  
 and finally.. some extravagant fireworks.


----------



## wink




----------



## pdrm360




----------



## vincent215

Happy 5th birthday to HD800. 
 Recently, Hifiman/AKG/Audeze already realesed or leaked their latest products, and it created quite a big hype.
 I hope Sennheiser has will play their card to make this battle interested.


----------



## James-uk

Unfortunately the don't need to . The 800s are still king of the dynamics and I don't think the new batch will dethrone them. They can hold on to that card for a few more years yet I think.


----------



## frix

true, also the  HD800 is still selling like hot cakes for this kind of niche product.


----------



## Sorrodje

Maybe someday The HD800 will have the same status than HD600. A reference Headphone, far away from any hype and recurring flagships competitions.


----------



## magiccabbage

james-uk said:


> Unfortunately the don't need to . The 800s are still king of the dynamics and I don't think the new batch will dethrone them. They can hold on to that card for a few more years yet I think.


 
 +1 from what i have heard HD800 are the top dogs.


----------



## PTom

How easy is it to get out of warranty HD800s repaired? Are replacement parts easily available?


----------



## WNBC

I am a 3 week user of the HD800 and there hasn't been anything I've owned quite as good in regards to detail, imaging, and soundstage.  Probably my one and only flagship for a while though I would like to complement it with something like a HE-6
  
 A fellow head-fi'er is loaning me her V200.  I like the combo.  I prefer the HD800 out of my tube amps but the small footprint of the V200 makes it an attractive option for those seeking a reasonably priced amp with a small footprint that also plays well with both dynamics (full size and IEMs) and planars.  I don't have a lot of experience in the SS amp world so it could get a lot better than the V200 in the under $1000 realm but I'm sure that has been covered extensively in this thread.  As of right now I'm liking the HD800 out of tube amps and I don't see myself modding this headphone.  We'll save the modding for after a year of ownership.


----------



## NZtechfreak

wnbc said:


> I am a 3 week user of the HD800 and there hasn't been anything I've owned quite as good in regards to detail, imaging, and soundstage.  Probably my one and only flagship for a while though I would like to complement it with something like a HE-6




Congrats! I have the HE-6 and HD800 as my top pairing too, any of the planars will give you a nice contrast


----------



## thegrobe

wnbc said:


> Nuff said, almost
> 
> I was considering the LCD-3 and we both have the same amps.  Would require selling off of my HD800s to try the LCD-3, which I am reluctant to do as it pairs well with the Decware amps.  I suspect the HD800 is one of those headphones that audiophiles have owned and sold a couple times over before coming to final opinion.
> 
> What did you not like about the LCD-3 and how did your HD800 win out over the LCD-3?  I consider myself a fan of planars so the LCD-3 was always on my radar.  I owned the LCD-2 and HE-500 in the past.  We also may have similar IEM tastes.  The Heir Audio 4 was one of my favs.


 
  
 Well, it was a difficult decision and not difficult at the same time. First off, I have an Audio-GD SA-2 DAC, CSP3 pre and the Taboo. Overall, I found that for my preferences, I was always leaning towards tuning the amps towards the leaner end of the spectrum (tube rolling) to get the LCD where I was happy with it. Don't get me wrong, I love the lush, magic mids, full sound of it, but I was finding the separation lacking a bit unless I tuned the amps leaner. Soundstage was okay, certainly not bad, but room for improvement. I think the lushness of the presentation kind of fattened all the notes etc up just enough to where separation and location of instruments in the soundstage suffered a bit. As such, I found myself using just the Taboo with the LCD. I didn't need the additional note weight etc of the pre in the chain. The LCD-3 on the taboo alone was pretty damn good. But was my amp tuned un-naturally bright to chase something that still wasn't quite there?
  
 I figured that the one nagging thing I still felt was lacking was separation and stage, so what's the logical answer? Try the headphone that's known as being exceptional in these areas. Turns out the HD800 on the Taboo or CSP+Taboo is outstanding. A different compliment of tubes in play, starting with the stockers ...I found absolutely no problems with harsh or bright highs or lack of bass (which you hear sometimes about the HD800). And I've got very good separation, air, etc. You know when the HD800 got bass weak or overly trebly? When my LCD tube compliment was in play. Okay, now I can hear my chain with more accuracy. A couple weeks of tube tweaking and I've found some serious magic. The only drawback compared to LCD-3...I guess the mids are not a "liquid". But I'm not losing much of the LCD-3's strengths really. And gaining what the HD800 does well. Some tube choices, actually (especially a 6N1P in the input section of the CSP3) will give the HD800 TOO MUCH bass/ thickness. So poo poo on anything I've heard about the HD800 being bass-light. At least in my experience. I really enjoy picking apart recordings hearing each performance and the HD800 allows that to a much higher degree than the LCD-3. 
  
 Before this sounds too much like a love letter.... There are still some things that the LCD-3 does better than the HD800. Punch. smooth/liquid mids. I enjoyed the LCD-3 immensely while I had it. Certainly not comfort, though, BTW. LOL. But there's more things that the HD does well on my rig. Weighing the strength and weaknesses of each phone, the HD800 pull ahead. Of course this is my opinion, YMMV etc etc. 
  
 After some time spent with the HD800, and going back to the LCD-3, it sounds as if you are listening through wet gauze or something. And much more inside your head. Maybe a top flight SS amp (GSX mk2?) will scale the LCD-3 higher, but for my SA series DAC and all-tube rig the HD800 are a no brainer. I think I'm getting just about all you can get out of this so it's a better overall experience. The reason I said it was a hard and easy decision...It was hard because I really WANTED to like the LCD-3 better for whatever reason but straight up reality made it an easy decision to sell off the LCD. And if I kept the LCD around...I know myself.....I'd spend the next six months obsessively switching back and forth, trying to still decide which I like better. (should I spend more $$$$ on tubes to tweak further for the LCD? etc. etc.). 
  
 Another benefit as well with the HD800/Decware rig is it sounds great right off the CSP. It sounds great right off the Taboo. It sounds great off the pair chained together. I've got lots of "flavors" to plug into. If a certain album is a bit bright/dry, plug into the CSP. Got something too warm/fat? Go right off the Taboo or tweak the CSP/Taboo balance. The LCD-3 really I was getting the best results only off the Taboo balanced out. 
  
 So that's my long-winded response. I would say think very carefully and audition the LCD-3 on your own rig before selling off the HD800 to try them. I feel I can get really close to the CSP+Taboo with just the Taboo alone. A bit leaner overall presentation but still very very good. I'm sure you are pretty satisfied with Taboo/HD800? Are you using balanced out? I hope.


----------



## longbowbbs

thegrobe said:


> wnbc said:
> 
> 
> > Nuff said, almost
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## Sorrodje

thegrobe said:


> And if I kept the LCD around...I know myself.....I'd spend the next six months obsessively switching back and forth, trying to still decide which I like better. (should I spend more $$$$ on tubes to tweak further for the LCD? etc. etc.).


 
  
 Sooooooo true !
  
 I'm happy to see I'm not alone in front of this madness


----------



## WNBC

That was quite an insightful answer.  Makes perfect sense to me, especially in the context of your amps.  Nuff said   With the right set of tubes one couldn't ask for much more out of the HD800 and Taboo combo.  
  
 Part of the transition process for me.  I had been listening primarily to the Alpha Dog for 4 months then I added the HD-800 to the mix.  The palpable mids of orthos take some time to ween off of because for me it is an instant visceral response.  But as you said, the mids of the HD800 ain't too shabby.  The Alpha Dog will be there for me when I have a "liquid mids" panic attack.     
  
 And you're right, it is a blast noticing new things about recordings as the HD800 resolves the music for you.
  
 Balanced cable coming next week.  Been using the stock single-ended cable so far.  
  
  
 Quote:


thegrobe said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## thegrobe

wnbc said:


> That was quite an insightful answer.  Makes perfect sense to me, especially in the context of your amps.  Nuff said   With the right set of tubes one couldn't ask for much more out of the HD800 and Taboo combo.
> 
> Part of the transition process for me.  I had been listening primarily to the Alpha Dog for 4 months then I added the HD-800 to the mix.  The palpable mids of orthos take some time to ween off of because for me it is an instant visceral response.  But as you said, the mids of the HD800 ain't too shabby.  The Alpha Dog will be there for me when I have a "liquid mids" panic attack.
> 
> ...


 
  
 WNBC, thanks.
  
 What you said - "The palpable mids of orthos take some time to ween off of" pretty much hits the nail on the head of the only thing I could say I miss from the LCD-3. The HD800, properly amped pretty much pulls ahead in every other regard. 
  
 Good to hear you have a balanced cable coming. The Taboo 3 is a speaker amp at heart, balanced out will give you the full experience. The single ended out on the Taboo is a workaround and crutch at best, and the "old lucid" mode must be engaged at all times running single ended. The balanced out via XLR or speaker taps will lift the HD800 up quite a bit from what you're hearing now. You get the pure amp without either lucid mode engaged. So you have something big to look forward to!


----------



## WNBC

You've been quoted so the pressure is on your claim  Looking forward to comparing SE and Balanced out of the Taboo.  
  
 I have on loan another flagship, the TH-900.  Since I prefer jazz I'm sticking with HD-800.  TH-900 is an excellent headphone but I prefer the less thick presentation of the HD800 for jazz and classical.  I could see having a TH-900 for those times when you want really warm, smooth vocals and more bass impact.     
  
  
 Quote:


thegrobe said:


> The balanced out via XLR or speaker taps will lift the HD800 up quite a bit from what you're hearing now. You get the pure amp without either lucid mode engaged. So you have something big to look forward to!


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Switched from stock to Furutech iHP-35HX cable.  Don't seem to notice any significant change in sound out of the 800 but the consolation is it is only 3.5 feet long.  This makes the 800 "more" portable.


----------



## musicisthekey

Would anyone please comment on the bass quantity of HD600 vs HD800? Thanks.


----------



## DarKen23

musicisthekey said:


> Would anyone please comment on the bass quantity of HD600 vs HD800? Thanks.


 
 Its better


----------



## LugBug1

musicisthekey said:


> Would anyone please comment on the bass quantity of HD600 vs HD800? Thanks.


 
 There's a little more quantity with the HD800. It goes deeper and is a little better quality too. Clearer.


----------



## musicisthekey

I was worried about the reports that HD800 is very light in bass. I've heard HD600 and its bass quantity was very satisfying to me.


----------



## DarKen23

musicisthekey said:


> I was worried about the reports that HD800 is very light in bass. I've heard HD600 and its bass quantity was very satisfying to me.


 
 It really depends on the amping.
  
 But naturally, compared to other headphones, the HD800's bass is anemic.


----------



## Sorrodje

lugbug1 said:


> There's a little more quantity with the HD800. It goes deeper and is a little better quality too. Clearer.


 
  
 +1 .


----------



## musicisthekey

I've narrowed it down to V200 and Bottlehead Crack with Speedball. What amp would have better synergy with HD800?


----------



## DutchGFX

musicisthekey said:


> I've narrowed it down to V200 and Bottlehead Crack with Speedball. What amp would have better synergy with HD800?


 

 I thought I hated tubes, but the Crack is significantly better with the HD800 and T1 than my Soloist, which I truly believe is a superior amp. I think the process of building a speedball/crack, along with the fact that DIY tends to have more yield/$ than production amps, the Crack would be the ideal choice. I just finished staining mine black, gonna laquer it today, its fun to build and sounds great, so I would recomend it.


----------



## musicisthekey

I absolutely love how HD650 pairs with the Crack. So musical...


----------



## TheDuke990

Or the other way round. A lot of headphones have emphasized bass compared to HD800


----------



## Swolern

darken23 said:


> It really depends on the amping.
> 
> But naturally, compared to other headphones, the HD800's bass is anemic.


 
 I am a bass-head and I wouldn't go as far as saying the HD800 bass is anemic. It really depends on your SQ preference and music genre. Without using ant EQ adjustments the HD800 quantity can be a little light on the bass impact with genres like Dubstep. But the HD800 is also versatile and with some EQ adjustments bass impact and quantity can be greatly increased. Now as far as bass quality, it is one of the cleanest with one of the lowest frequencies that I frankly have heard before. Other genres like rock and pop the HD800 bass quantity and quality is perfect as is.
  
 But the HD800 is geared towards neutral. Bass can be more impactful on other HP, but mids and highs will sometimes suffer comparatively.


----------



## DarKen23

swolern said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > It really depends on the amping.
> ...


 
 Yes I agree. Maybe my definition of anemic is different, I merely meant that compared to other headphones and certain amps for the HD800 the bass can be anemic.


----------



## thegunner100

I currently own both the hd600 and hd800.


----------



## skeptic

musicisthekey said:


> I've narrowed it down to V200 and Bottlehead Crack with Speedball. What amp would have better synergy with HD800?


 
  
 Ditto the above comments.  The crack sounds great with hd800's, but for about the same msrp as a v200, you could also consider building a mainline (at its current sale price), which is a true end game hd800 amp.  Although documented with a step by step photo guide like crack, the mainline build is quite a bit more complex, so this suggestion does depend on your diy chops and/or friends you may have who can lend a hand.  (For instance, mainline requires quite a bit of through hole pcb work right out the gate, whereas crack is all simple point to point components until you decide to add the speedball.)


----------



## Maxvla

300b amps tend to sound a bit boring with the HD800, is that what Glenn is suggesting for the HD800?


----------



## koiloco

darken23 said:


> It really depends on the amping.
> 
> But naturally, compared to other headphones, the HD800's bass is anemic.



I half-agree with you.


----------



## DarKen23

koiloco said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > It really depends on the amping.
> ...



 Half works


----------



## koiloco

darken23 said:


> Half works



Lol. Yup. For jazz, classical, acousticsl and vocals, hd800 is perfect how it is. Hip hop, RB, I prefer a little more on the low end, very tiny bit more.


----------



## DarKen23

koiloco said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Half works
> ...


 
 Aww, youre just being nice


----------



## pdrm360

darken23 said:


> Quote
> 
> 
> > Lol. Yup. For jazz, classical, acousticsl and vocals, hd800 is perfect how it is. Hip hop, RB, *I prefer a little more on the low end, very tiny bit more.*
> ...


 
  
 Or brain burn-in


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> the WA22 is also kinda lean on the bass too. with another amp they can sound much different.


 

 DG, I have tried HD800 on Taboo MKIII which is IMO not bass light in any ways but still I find HD800 a touch shy in the low end for some genres.  I tried both HE500 and HD800 on WA22 and indeed WA22 is light on bass.  Anyway, this is my personal preference. We all hear differently.


----------



## koiloco

pdrm360 said:


> Or brain burn-in


 

 Yes, I got a burn on my ass too.  You wanna see?


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> plenty of expensive amps also have light bass though, usually its very clean and extended bass, but still lighter than neutral.
> 
> 
> If i didn't need a new car, I would have a WA2 right now. next to gsx , its the best hd 800 amp i've heard, its very forgiving too. i love how the WA2 makes music sound so good on T1 and HD 800. the GSX is better, but is less forgiving than the WA2.


 

 +1.  You are really tempting me about the WA2...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

koiloco said:


> +1.  You are really tempting me about the WA2...


 
  
 lol, its good for hd 800, but not for HE-500. 
  
 with good tubes though, the WA22 is equal or better in mids and highs, and is better with soundstage, it also has more details and is more lush and warm, though it doesn't have that silky euphonic musicality that the WA2 has. I did not enjoy the WA22 until I had the WE422A in it.


----------



## Sonido

I've optimized my chain for the HD800 for warmth and euphony (at least as much I could with what gear I had). I think I've noticed some distortion on the bass, but it happens rarely, and I can live with it. I noticed this more when turning the preamp to max and using the Crack for volume control.
  
 Note: Now that I wrote this, I decided to mess around a bit with the volume knobs. I was using 9 o'clock on Crack and around 12 o'clock on Quickie. I did the opposite of the distortion effect, turning the Crack to max, and using the Quickie as volume control, which is now at 7 o'clock. The bass actually tighter and more impactful now, and the distortion is gone. I guess that's what preamps are for: volume control. Only slight drawback is there is a very slight hum now when nothing is playing. Nothing compared to Emotiva though. Presentation of the bass is still not the same as the HE-500, but I find (dare I say?) the quantity of bass to be on par with the HE-500. The HD800 definitely has a quicker, tighter bass, where the HE-500 has a looser, wetter bass.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sonido said:


> I've optimized my chain for the HD800 for warmth and euphony (at least as much I could with what gear I had). I think I've noticed some distortion on the bass, but it happens rarely, and I can live with it. I noticed this more when turning the preamp to max and using the Crack for volume control.
> 
> Note: Now that I wrote this, I decided to mess around a bit with the volume knobs. I was using 9 o'clock on Crack and around 12 o'clock on Quickie. I did the opposite of the distortion effect, turning the Crack to max, and using the Quickie as volume control, which is now at 7 o'clock. The bass actually tighter and more impactful now, and the distortion is gone. I guess that's what preamps are for: volume control. Only slight drawback is there is a very slight hum now when nothing is playing. Nothing compared to Emotiva though. Presentation of the bass is still not the same as the HE-500, but I find (dare I say?) the quantity of bass to be on par with the HE-500. The HD800 definitely has a quicker, tighter bass, where the HE-500 has a looser, wetter bass.


 
  
 put the Crack to max and lower it by like a really tiny bit, it might get rid of the hum, what i found with alot of amps is that when on max volume, theres also a high frequency ring you hear along with the hum.


----------



## Sonido

dubstep girl said:


> put the Crack to max and lower it by like a really tiny bit, it might get rid of the hum, what i found with alot of amps is that when on max volume, theres also a high frequency ring you hear along with the hum.


 
 The hum doesn't really disappear until turned back to 12 o'clock (max is at 4 o'clock). It's only audible when nothing is playing. Maybe a problem for softer genres like classical, but then I could turn it back to 12 o'clock, and maybe there's a little less bass presence, but those genres generally aren't bass centric anyways.


----------



## Sonido

dubstep girl said:


> If i didn't need a new car, I would have a WA2 right now. next to gsx , its the best hd 800 amp i've heard, its very forgiving too. i love how the WA2 makes music sound so good on T1 and HD 800. the GSX is better, but is less forgiving than the WA2.


 
 Out of curiosity, what kind of car are you looking to get?


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> *lol, its good for hd 800, but not for HE-500. *
> 
> with good tubes though, the WA22 is equal or better in mids and highs, and is better with soundstage, it also has more details and is more lush and warm, though it doesn't have that silky euphonic musicality that the WA2 has. I did not enjoy the WA22 until I had the WE422A in it.


 
 I got you.  I was just thinking to try out a used WA2 for the HD800 only and maybe give Glenn's OTL amp a shot.  The price is reasonable enough.  First, I got to verify the DAC myth to find out how shiity my DAC is.  Then, I'll play around more with the HD800.
  
 ....And I thought I was done.... I need to ask for a self-imposed ban.  You all are bad influences.


----------



## koiloco

sonido said:


> Out of curiosity, what kind of car are you looking to get?


 
 Fully discussed in the Woo amp thread.


----------



## Sonido

koiloco said:


> Fully discussed in the Woo amp thread.


 

 Wow I just looked it up and no lie, I had a guess on something retro like the Challenger, since she's a big tube person. I personally like tube amps over SS as well, and I drive a Camaro. Maybe we're onto something here? Go for the ZL1! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or the new Z28 which has an old-school rear, and no A/C!


----------



## koiloco

sonido said:


> Wow I just looked it up and no lie, I had a guess on something retro like the Challenger, since she's a big tube person. I personally like tube amps over SS as well, and I drive a Camaro. Maybe we're onto something here? Go for the ZL1!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I told DG.  Go hemi or go home.  Seriously though.


----------



## BournePerfect

HD800. King of headphones. Best bass I've heard too, and that includes TH900, HE-6, LCD 2.2s, Pro 900 etc etc... HE-6 trolls must have that nagging voice in the back of their mind all the time reminding them what could have been if they'd just kept up with the HD800 journey. It's not a journey all will make-and that's fine. Glad I made it though-no nagging voices here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 -Daniel


----------



## WNBC

No German cars for HD800 owners 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Charger fan here.
  
  
 Quote:


sonido said:


> Wow I just looked it up and no lie, I had a guess on something retro like the Challenger, since she's a big tube person. I personally like tube amps over SS as well, and I drive a Camaro. Maybe we're onto something here? Go for the ZL1!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Sonido

If I had the money, that new Corvette Stingray is really the best bang for your buck in terms of power, looks, and just awesomeness. It's like the HE-500 of cars if the HE-500 also looked good.


----------



## pdrm360

koiloco said:


> Yes, I got a burn on my ass too.  You wanna see?


 
  
 "Brian burn-in" means accepting a new sound signature by mind.


----------



## pdrm360

sonido said:


> If I had the money, that new Corvette Stingray is really the best bang for your buck in terms of power, looks, and just awesomeness. It's like the HE-500 of cars if the HE-500 also looked good.


 
  
 The new Corvette Stingray!? You know what the HE-500 looks like, a Ford F-150.


----------



## magiccabbage

maxvla said:


> 300b amps tend to sound a bit boring with the HD800, is that what Glenn is suggesting for the HD800?


 
 no, he does not suggest it. Usually the 300b's he makes are for planars or speakers. I want one for hd800 but like i said i need to figure a few things out first.


----------



## 62ohm

wnbc said:


>


 
  
 I'm an HD800 owner and I drive an Alfa Romeo


----------



## Swolern

Man I have to take back what I said about light bass yesterday. I played the new Justin Timberlake album while using my U-shaped EQ curve and the HD800 bass was so impactful, it was shaking my brain! Satisfied bass-head here, with that album.


----------



## 62ohm

Does anyone have any idea about which GSP Audio amp would pair better with HD800? Graham Slee Solo SRG-II or Ultra Linear DE? Both with PSU1.


----------



## koiloco

pdrm360 said:


> "Brian burn-in" means accepting a new sound signature by mind.


 

 yup, I knew.  I was just joking around with him.


----------



## koiloco

swolern said:


> Man I have to take back what I said about light bass yesterday. I played the new Justin Timberlake album while using my U-shaped EQ curve and the HD800 bass was so impactful, it was shaking my brain! Satisfied bass-head here, with that album.


 

 That's because that album was mixed/mastered with tons of bass already.  The album did the EQ for you!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

No hemis or z28s , trying to stay in 20-30 range, no more than low 30s (32-33ish tops)

Im also interested in mercedes cla 250 that just came out, but no moonroof or xenons unless you add like 2.5k more, and sport package costs more. Makes car too expensive.

Looks like camaro / challenger v6 fully loaded or maybe a v6 altima or something like that. 

If all else fails, ill just get the corolla, but i dont want to cause of the CVT itd be too slow.


----------



## Sonido

So I just spent 3.5 hours adding the Speedball to my Bottlehead Crack. It was quite difficult to get myself to cutting off those resistors, not knowing if the Crack will ever work again, but luckily I put it together and it all worked! Such a better experience than when I first assembled the Crack, which took me 12 hours cuz I was using lead-free solder which took forever to melt and I had to squash the solder between the iron and the component, which took 5-10 minutes per solder! Protip for anyone thinking about building the Crack or any other DIY amp: *Use leaded solder.* I was using 60/40 solder this time I believe.
  
 The following impressions are with the HD800 (obviously). First thing I noticed is that the noise floor when maxing the amp was a bit lower. I'm maxing the volume because I'm using a preamp, the Bottlehead Quickie. As for sound, honestly, not too much difference comes out at me. I think there's a little better instrument separation. Also, perhaps a slightly smoother, less edgy sound. More details may also be present because of the smoother sound and better imaging. Listening through just the Crack + Speedball alone, and comparing with Crack without Speedball from memory, I find the sound to come together and become more coherent. The one thing I didn't like the HD800 with stock Crack was that I found for certain genres like rock, the large soundstage sounded unnatural, especially vocals, which sounded drawn and stretched out. With the Speedball, this is improved, similar to when I added Quickie to the chain. It's not as thin sounding anymore, especially vocals, but there is still a certain level of brightness, which is apparent when comparing to adding Quickie to chain. I think the way the Quickie solved the thin vocals problem was by adding warmth (a lot more than Crack) and body to the sound. The Speedball seems to solve this problem by just making everything tighter and more refined.
  
 Overall I think adding the Speedball is a significant difference from stock Crack, especially if just using the Crack. Comparing Quickie + stock Crack vs Quickie + Crack with Speedball, the difference is a lot less, mainly benefiting tightness, refinement, and imaging. I guess the different is less apparent because my biggest problem, the thin vocals with the HD800 and stock Crack was already fixed by adding the Quickie. As for whether the Speedball or Quickie adds more to the Crack for the HD800, I have to say the Quickie does more, as far as altering the sound signature is concerned. While both help in coherency and make vocals better, the Quickie actually adds a significant amount of warmth, and makes the HD800 less bright sounding. Of course this warmth is a subjective preference. I guess a good way to summarize is the Speedball betters the technicalities of the sound like imaging and refinement, whereas the Quickie does more to change the sound signature.
  
 Listening to just Crack+Speedball for a bit now, and I can see why some people complain about fatigue with the HD800. For me, adding the Quickie to chain really helps in this respect, perhaps at a slight cost to the analytical nature of the HD800.
  
 Quote:


dubstep girl said:


> No hemis or z28s , trying to stay in 20-30 range, no more than low 30s (32-33ish tops)
> 
> Im also interested in mercedes cla 250 that just came out, but no moonroof or xenons unless you add like 2.5k more, and sport package costs more. Makes car too expensive.
> 
> ...


 

 BRZ or FR-S have agility and great handling, but good luck finding one for sale.


----------



## palmfish

sonido said:


> BRZ or FR-S have agility and great handling, but good luck finding one for sale.




Very nice review, thank you. Im still on the fence about adding Speedball to my Crack or just leaving it as is. Im going to wait until I can compare side by side before I decide.

BR-Z/FR-S is a fine choice right now - much better drivers car than those overweight ponies or FWD imports. Personally, I would look at a CPO Audi or BMW. All wheel drive for Chicago...


----------



## Sonido

palmfish said:


> Very nice review, thank you. Im still on the fence about adding Speedball to my Crack or just leaving it as is. Im going to wait until I can compare side by side before I decide.


 
 Imo the Quickie is a better upgrade at ~$100, and you and use it with other amps. Of course, I subjectively prefer an euphonic sound to an analytical one. I got the Speedball for free anyways from the special sale. Just never got around to installing it after my harrowing experience soldering up with Crack with lead-free solder. Now that I'm using the Crack more since I got the HD800, I finally added it and it wasn't difficult at all with the right solder.


----------



## palmfish

sonido said:


> Imo the Quickie is a better upgrade at ~$100, and you and use it with other amps. Of course, I subjectively prefer an euphonic sound to an analytical one. I got the Speedball for free anyways from the special sale. Just never got around to installing it after my harrowing experience soldering up with Crack with lead-free solder. Now that I'm using the Crack more since I got the HD800, I finally added it and it wasn't difficult at all with the right solder.




The Crack is already riding the edge of being too smooth and meaty for my tastes. Based on your description, the Quickie would push it right off the cliff for me.


----------



## PretentiousGeek

Hi Guys,
  
 not sure if this is the appropriate place to post this.
  
 i plan to buy the HD800 with Objective2 as its AMP and an JDS labs ODAC. (I will change the AMP to WO2 soon after)
  
 Planning to use it for 50% audio 30% gaming 20% movies.
  
 I might get flamed for using this cans for gaming but i have limited funds and i want the very best.  To me the HD800 is the first proper step to have a top tier setup.
  
 please enlighten me if this upgrade path is correct.
  
 thanks.


----------



## koiloco

^ do it.  You will have one of the best HPs on this planet earth.  Upgrade your source components later slowly to improve SQ even further.  You are not going to get any flaming from me.  Also, you will always hear "your HD800 deserves better"..."it's ridiculous to run $1400 HPs with $200 amp/DAC"...etc  Buy it and find out for yourself if you like what you hear and then ultimately decide.  Affordable DAC/amps are not horrible like some people would like u to believe, esp O2 and ODAC.
  
 WO2? what amp is that?


----------



## Maxvla

You will enjoy the rig. It is a bit limited, but it will be fine to start with. My only real problem with the Objective stack with the HD800 is lack of dynamic range, but everything else sounds quite acceptable. For the price those objective pieces are, that is high praise.


----------



## pdrm360

sonido said:


> So I just spent 3.5 hours adding the Speedball to my Bottlehead Crack. It was quite difficult to get myself to cutting off those resistors, not knowing if the Crack will ever work again, but luckily I put it together and it all worked! Such a better experience than when I first assembled the Crack, which took me 12 hours cuz I was using lead-free solder which took forever to melt and I had to squash the solder between the iron and the component, which took 5-10 minutes per solder! Protip for anyone thinking about building the Crack or any other DIY amp: *Use leaded solder.* I was using 60/40 solder this time I believe.
> 
> The following impressions are with the HD800 (obviously). First thing I noticed is that the noise floor when maxing the amp was a bit lower. I'm maxing the volume because I'm using a preamp, the Bottlehead Quickie. As for sound, honestly, not too much difference comes out at me. I think there's a little better instrument separation. Also, perhaps a slightly smoother, less edgy sound. More details may also be present because of the smoother sound and better imaging. Listening through just the Crack + Speedball alone, and comparing with Crack without Speedball from memory, I find the sound to come together and become more coherent. The one thing I didn't like the HD800 with stock Crack was that I found for certain genres like rock, the large soundstage sounded unnatural, especially vocals, which sounded drawn and stretched out. With the Speedball, this is improved, similar to when I added Quickie to the chain. It's not as thin sounding anymore, especially vocals, but there is still a certain level of brightness, which is apparent when comparing to adding Quickie to chain. I think the way the Quickie solved the thin vocals problem was by adding warmth (a lot more than Crack) and body to the sound. The Speedball seems to solve this problem by just making everything tighter and more refined.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great write up. Thanks!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sonido said:


> BRZ or FR-S have agility and great handling, but good luck finding one for sale.


 
  
 are they hard to get?
  
 i was looking at those as well, but kinda turned off by the fact that they don't seem to offer full leather seats and the inside seems to be kinda plain looking. also its not as powerful as the other cars. of course, i can imagine the handling would be excellent and it would be a fun car to drive still.


----------



## Sonido

dubstep girl said:


> are they hard to get?
> 
> i was looking at those as well, but kinda turned off by the fact that they don't seem to offer full leather seats and the inside seems to be kinda plain looking. also its not as powerful as the other cars. of course, i can imagine the handling would be excellent and it would be a fun car to drive still.


 

 The two cars are pretty much the same hardware. It was co-developed by Toyota and Suburu based off the legendary AE86. Any Initial D fans would know what I'm talking about here. That's why the handling is superb. The FR-S is marketed to a younger crowd and skimps on the interior. The BRZ has better interior options like alcantara and leather seating. When the BRZ first came out, I had a friend who was trying to get one but gave up. I just did a quick search and they seem to both be readily available now. Looks to be 28-30K. It's worth a test drive at least.


----------



## Swolern

pretentiousgeek said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> not sure if this is the appropriate place to post this.
> 
> ...


 
 Trust me those numbers will change when you own a proper setup with the HD800. When i first bought my cans I was 70% gaming, 30% music. Now I am 90% music, 10% gaming. Its that engaging!


----------



## Sonido

Here's a great song with the HD800. Really tests its dynamic range and various instruments:
  

  
 Great soundtrack and this is probably my favorite song on there.


----------



## Sorrodje

Has Anyone experienced personnaly Odac/O2 + HD800 combo ?   
  
 I'm testing currently Hfimediy + MGHead or Hifimediy/Meier Concerto Combo and I will soon receive a loaned O2 .


----------



## pdrm360

sonido said:


> Here's a great song with the HD800. Really tests its dynamic range and various instruments:
> 
> Great soundtrack and this is probably my favorite song on there.


 
  
 Not very impressive with the HD650.


----------



## Maxvla

sorrodje said:


> Has Anyone experienced personnaly Odac/O2 + HD800 combo ?
> 
> I'm testing currently Hfimediy + MGHead or Hifimediy/Meier Concerto Combo and I will soon receive a loaned O2 .



http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-appreciation-thread/7500#post_10166866



sonido said:


> Here's a great song with the HD800. Really tests its dynamic range and various instruments:
> 
> Great soundtrack and this is probably my favorite song on there.



Sounds pretty good here on HD800s. I'm sure the CD version is more dynamic than Youtube's, but it's decent enough. I liked it for the imaging cues and the really deep soundstage cues.


----------



## Sorrodje

maxvla said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-appreciation-thread/7500#post_10166866


 
  
 Oh Sorry. I'm not fully awake this morning. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Did you compare to your M-stage ?


----------



## PretentiousGeek

maxvla said:


> You will enjoy the rig. It is a bit limited, but it will be fine to start with. My only real problem with the Objective stack with the HD800 is lack of dynamic range, but everything else sounds quite acceptable. For the price those objective pieces are, that is high praise.


 
  
 Thanks for the reassurance.  Does a WO2 gives justice to this cans? Or should i just save up and get the WO22.  Being a newbie im really confused with all the numbers, i know that sounds are personal preference but i dont have the luxury for a hit and miss, as much as possible i want to do it right and avoid unnecessary spending.  Another thing is that i'm based in the Philippines and sourcing equipment are extremely difficult.


----------



## 62ohm

Just got myself a Woo WA3, pairs quite nicely with HD800 in my opinion, better than WA6 which I also auditioned. Time to upgrade my DAC now I guess


----------



## frix

I'm also thinking about getting a WA3 as my first tube amp for the HD800.
  
 Do you use the stock tubes?


----------



## 62ohm

frix said:


> I'm also thinking about getting a WA3 as my first tube amp for the HD800.
> 
> Do you use the stock tubes?


 
  
 Yes I do, both WA3 & WA6 were on stock tubes when I auditioned them.


----------



## frix

I see you also have the magni.
 Do you prefer your HD800 with the wa3?
 What are the differences and are they subtle or prominent?
  
 Thanks


----------



## 62ohm

frix said:


> I see you also have the magni.
> Do you prefer your HD800 with the wa3?
> What are the differences and are they subtle or prominent?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Obviously the HD800 favours WA3 much more than the Magni, and it's quite a big difference. The bass became punchier, but not to the level of a bass head. At times it can feel a bit bloated though, I suspect this is due to the OTL design. The mids became much fuller, the Magni's mids sounds thin in comparison. The highs became less piercing, though at times can feel a bit 'veiled' compared to WA6. The soundstage is also not as big as the WA6. YMMV.
  
  
 Edit: the amp opened up after burn-in, the soundstage gets much bigger now.


----------



## Viper2005

Newest member of the HD800 club   SN 269xx
 Also have a Black Dragon cable to go with it.


----------



## Anda

viper2005 said:


> Newest member of the HD800 club   SN 269xx
> Also have a Black Dragon cable to go with it.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice setup and great album


----------



## WNBC

Nice, clean silver stack set up there.  When you get ready lets hear your opinion of the Yulong vs V200 amp with the HD800.
  
  
 Quote:


viper2005 said:


> Newest member of the HD800 club   SN 269xx
> Also have a Black Dragon cable to go with it.


----------



## DutchGFX

My pair is still for sale if any lurkers are interested. I'll continue to post in this thread once in a while, as I now feel I somewhat qualify to do so. Haha


----------



## Dubstep Girl

WA2 + Hd800 

Wa22 is better but requires alot of work for little improvement over the wa2 with good tubes


----------



## 62ohm

dubstep girl said:


> WA2 + Hd800
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 My future target amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the WA2...
  
  
 Anyway, give this a shot folks, sounds holy schiit with HD800's soundstage


----------



## akhyar

dubstep girl said:


> WA2 + Hd800
> 
> Wa22 is better but requires alot of work for little improvement over the wa2 with good tubes




Hi DG,
Previously you mentioned that the bass on WA2 is better than WA22. Is there any difference in the bass between the single ended and balance output on the WA22? 
Thanks


----------



## Dillan

Just chiming in for two reasons. 

 One being the recent WA2 + HD800 combo - I can say that I thoroughly enjoy this combination and love changing out tubes as they make a big difference and the right ones sound sublime.  (Personally enjoy the stock a lot and the RCA 6AS7G also).  Surprisingly didnt like the 5998, but that is because I wanted more warmth with my 800's. 

*The* *second and most important reason I am posting* -

 I take very delicate care of my HD800's, but I absolutely hate the brittle mesh silver grille on the outside of the headphone.  Any slight touch of the finger (especially this occurs when I let someone hear them, as they almost always seem to touch this area) and a very visible fingerprint seems to appear and is very hard to clean off.  That is one slight issue, but recently I was taking out the cable and it happened to very slightly scrape the grille as they were coming out and I ended up scratching the grill.  It made me so upset as I am pretty ocd, especially with my nicer audio equipment. 

 Does anyone know a way to fix something like that?  The only way I would know how is to send to sennheiser, but ive heard they charge 700 bucks just to look at them.  I could sell my pair and spend a couple hundred bucks to get another brand new pair for cheaper.  What do you guys think?


----------



## LugBug1

dillan said:


> *The* *second and most important reason I am posting* -
> 
> I take very delicate care of my HD800's, but I absolutely hate the brittle mesh silver grille on the outside of the headphone.  Any slight touch of the finger (especially this occurs when I let someone hear them, as they almost always seem to touch this area) and a very visible fingerprint seems to appear and is very hard to clean off.  That is one slight issue, but recently I was taking out the cable and it happened to very slightly scrape the grille as they were coming out and I ended up scratching the grill.  It made me so upset as I am pretty ocd, especially with my nicer audio equipment.
> 
> Does anyone know a way to fix something like that?  The only way I would know how is to send to sennheiser, but ive heard they charge 700 bucks just to look at them.  I could sell my pair and spend a couple hundred bucks to get another brand new pair for cheaper.  What do you guys think?


 
 I totally understand where you are coming from, I'm very ocd and the same thing happened to me when I first got mine. I stuck my finger on the thin mesh and it left a mark. I then tried to clean it. This made it worse...hah I spent the next hour trying to make it look new again... The whole next day looking at it and getting annoyed! 
  
 Best just to leave it.. It's unavoidable that it will get marked over time. But it does become less noticeable when all of it becomes dirty. (dirty as in finger prints for e.g) Its a strange material and a patented one. You can't clean it to look new again. Regarding the mark left by the cable, if you are still under warranty contact Sennheiser. If not then try and think of it as your own personalised HD800.


----------



## Dillan

Haha!  Yea you pretty much sounded exactly like me when I first received it.  Do you think a warranty would help with something like that?


----------



## Audio Jester

dillan said:


> Just chiming in for two reasons.
> 
> 
> One being the recent WA2 + HD800 combo - I can say that I thoroughly enjoy this combination and love changing out tubes as they make a big difference and the right ones sound sublime.  (Personally enjoy the stock a lot and the RCA 6AS7G also).  Surprisingly didnt like the 5998, but that is because I wanted more warmth with my 800's.
> ...


 
I would look into Colorware if I were you. From what I have heard the finish is more robust than the original.


----------



## LugBug1

dillan said:


> Haha!  Yea you pretty much sounded exactly like me when I first received it.  Do you think a warranty would help with something like that?


 
 Only one way to find out bud..
 A few people have scraped the paintwork trying to prize the cables out. They shouldn't be so tight if they are meant to come out. I'd say damage incurred from this could be under the warranty perhaps?


----------



## Dillan

Ok, that sounds good.  I will see what I can find out and if not - then I will maybe go through colorware or something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
  
 Edit:  Oh no! I have looked around ColorWare's site and apparently they do not have an option to customize the inner mesh grill coloring.  Will see the warranty situation tomorrow.


----------



## LugBug1

dillan said:


> Ok, that sounds good.  I will see what I can find out and if not - then I will maybe go through colorware or something
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah they only color the actual body frame. They don't touch anything that could maybe affect the acoustics.


----------



## BleaK

viper2005 said:


> Newest member of the HD800 club   SN 269xx
> Also have a Black Dragon cable to go with it.


 

 That's a really nice stack you have there! I also use the BDv2. Impression with the Yulong amp would be most welcome!


----------



## Audio Jester

dillan said:


> Ok, that sounds good.  I will see what I can find out and if not - then I will maybe go through colorware or something :confused_face:
> 
> 
> 
> Edit:  Oh no! I have looked around ColorWare's site and apparently they do not have an option to customize the inner mesh grill coloring.  Will see the warranty situation tomorrow.


 my bad, i thought you meant the small grill in the centre. Soz.


----------



## Amictus

Sorry to throw a dumb question into this august thread... Anyone have an opinion as to where the best place is to buy the HD800s in the UK? (Or from the UK?). Clearly, I want to avoid counterfeits, old stock, etc...


----------



## brunk

amictus said:


> Sorry to throw a dumb question into this august thread... Anyone have an opinion as to where the best place is to buy the HD800s in the UK? (Or from the UK?). Clearly, I want to avoid counterfeits, old stock, etc...


 
 Shoot Sennheiser sales support an email for authorized dealers in your area.


----------



## James-uk

Hifi lounge and custom cable are sennheiser club Orpheus dealers. I have dealt with both and can recommend them. Great service .


----------



## LugBug1

amictus said:


> Sorry to throw a dumb question into this august thread... Anyone have an opinion as to where the best place is to buy the HD800s in the UK? (Or from the UK?). Clearly, I want to avoid counterfeits, old stock, etc...


 
 I bought mine from Petertyson.co.uk last spring, came the next day. Mine were brand new and from the very latest batch. I did have to ring them up for the order though, the website prompted me to call them during the check out process. They were very helpful and professional. 
  
 http://www.petertyson.co.uk/ebuttonz/ebz_product_pages/sennheiser_hd800.shtml


----------



## nigeljames

amictus said:


> Sorry to throw a dumb question into this august thread... Anyone have an opinion as to where the best place is to buy the HD800s in the UK? (Or from the UK?). Clearly, I want to avoid counterfeits, old stock, etc...


 
  
 I got mine from Audio Affair in Birmingham.
  
 They also offer 30 refund guarantee just in case you did not like them. I fully expected to send mine back, guess what happened!!


----------



## LugBug1

nigeljames said:


> I got mine from Audio Affair in Birmingham.
> 
> They also offer 30 refund guarantee just in case you did not like them. I fully expected to send mine back, guess what happened!!


 
 I think you've been lucky there my friend.
  
 I've tried Audio Affair 3 times... 1st time they they sent me a defective Creek amplifier. Second time a second hand amplifier (after waiting weeks) Third time they just didn't send a cable that I ordered. Had to go though quite a process to get my money back. 
  
 I did give them another chance when I was enquiring about the HD800. The manager said he would call me straight back to do the order. Guess what? He never called back. Not my favorite company at all. Judging by the negative feedback on the web I'm not the only one...


----------



## Viper2005

bleak said:


> That's a really nice stack you have there! I also use the BDv2. Impression with the Yulong amp would be most welcome!




The Yulong A18 is very sweet sounding, and lots of punch to the sound. I really want to try it with the XLR out. There is a lot of bass from these phones! (and come from LCD2s)
I really should not have bought the BDv2 as I really prefer the sound of the stock cable (blasphemy, yes I know). With the BD I feel the sound is more veiled and brings the phone closer to the LCD2 than I would like. The reason I bought the cable at the same time as the phones was that the pair I listened to a few weeks ago, on the same rig, sounded peaky in certain songs.. this one does not, oddly.
I've requested the frequency graph from Sennheiser.. it will be interesting to see it.


----------



## Amictus

brunk said:


> Shoot Sennheiser sales support an email for authorized dealers in your area.


 
  
  


james-uk said:


> Hifi lounge and custom cable are sennheiser club Orpheus dealers. I have dealt with both and can recommend them. Great service .


 
  
  


lugbug1 said:


> I bought mine from Petertyson.co.uk last spring, came the next day. Mine were brand new and from the very latest batch. I did have to ring them up for the order though, the website prompted me to call them during the check out process. They were very helpful and professional.
> 
> http://www.petertyson.co.uk/ebuttonz/ebz_product_pages/sennheiser_hd800.shtml


 
  
  


nigeljames said:


> I got mine from Audio Affair in Birmingham.
> 
> They also offer 30 refund guarantee just in case you did not like them. I fully expected to send mine back, guess what happened!!


 

 Thank you so much, folks. That's added a couple of possibilities that I haven't come across yet. Amused by the nigeljames' experience - we do tell ourselves comforting stories, don't we? I'm just going to try them out... I'm going to put up with the amps I've got already... etc. etc.  Another rabbit-hole beckons. Thank you all again!


----------



## pdrm360

dubstep girl said:


> WA2 + Hd800
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Do you recommend any tube upgrade for the WA2?


----------



## bearFNF

amictus said:


> Thank you so much, folks. That's added a couple of possibilities that I haven't come across yet. Amused by the nigeljames' experience - we do tell ourselves comforting stories, don't we? I'm just going to try them out... I'm going to put up with the amps I've got already... etc. etc.  *Another rabbit-hole beckons*. Thank you all again!


 
 Another rabbit hole?? ah crap...you means there's more than one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ??? all this time I have just been going deeper into the first one


----------



## nigeljames

lugbug1 said:


> I think you've been lucky there my friend.
> 
> I've tried Audio Affair 3 times... 1st time they they sent me a defective Creek amplifier. Second time a second hand amplifier (after waiting weeks) Third time they just didn't send a cable that I ordered. Had to go though quite a process to get my money back.
> 
> I did give them another chance when I was enquiring about the HD800. The manager said he would call me straight back to do the order. Guess what? He never called back. Not my favorite company at all. Judging by the negative feedback on the web I'm not the only one...


 
  
 I think you might be right. I recently e-mailed them 3 times regarding another matter and never got a reply.
  
 At least I am local so I could pick up what I wanted without be given the runaround.


----------



## Viper2005

Got the Frequency graph from Sennheiser today for my HD800 SN 269XX..
 I like that they email it now instead of snail mail


----------



## pdrm360

viper2005 said:


> Got the Frequency graph from Sennheiser today for my HD800 SN 269XX..
> I like that they email it now instead of snail mail


 
 It looks exactly same as mine.


----------



## Pustik

Guys how do you request such graph?


----------



## pdrm360

pustik said:


> Guys how do you request such graph?


 
  
 http://en-de.sennheiser.com/service-support-services-register-your-product


----------



## Pustik

pdrm360 said:


> http://en-de.sennheiser.com/service-support-services-register-your-product


 

 Thank you.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

akhyar said:


> Hi DG,
> Previously you mentioned that the bass on WA2 is better than WA22. Is there any difference in the bass between the single ended and balance output on the WA22?
> Thanks


 
  
 i only used the balanced output on WA22. 
  
 the WA2 has more bass than the WA22. the WA22 in return has more treble extension and a bigger soundstage with a more focused midrange, its more lush as well rather than the silky smoothness of the WA2. 
  


pdrm360 said:


> Do you recommend any tube upgrade for the WA2?


 
  
 yeah depends on what your setup is but i do enjoy Tung Sol 5998 or GEC 6AS7G power tubes the most. I also like the Amperex drivers and the RFT EZ80 rectifier.


----------



## pdrm360

dubstep girl said:


> yeah depends on what your setup is but i do enjoy *Tung Sol 5998* or *GEC 6AS7G* power tubes the most. I also like the *Amperex* drivers and the *RFT EZ80* rectifier.


 
  
 Got it, thanks!


----------



## Sonido

dubstep girl said:


> yeah depends on what your setup is but i do enjoy Tung Sol 5998 or GEC 6AS7G power tubes the most. I also like the Amperex drivers and the RFT EZ80 rectifier.


 
  
 What about for Bottlehead Crack? I guess I would prefer better technicalities like in details, transparency, imaging, and separation, as opposed to a sound signature change. I'm getting the warm, lush sound signature from my Quickie preamp already.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sonido said:


> What about for Bottlehead Crack? I guess I would prefer better technicalities like in details, transparency, imaging, and separation, as opposed to a sound signature change. I'm getting the warm, lush sound signature from my Quickie preamp already.


 
 GEC, the Tung Sol is slightly less airy and detailed, having a little more body and bass bloom.


----------



## Sonido

So anyone else ever have the urge of trying out lower end or past headphones just to see how far you've come and how your ears have adapted? I've always found it easier to notice differences going to poor sound quality as opposed to better. I guess you could call this headphone slumming.


----------



## akhyar

dubstep girl said:


> i only used the balanced output on WA22.
> 
> the WA2 has more bass than the WA22. the WA22 in return has more treble extension and a bigger soundstage with a more focused midrange, its more lush as well rather than the silky smoothness of the WA2.
> ......


 
  
 Thanks DG.


----------



## lamboy1

thanks from me to!


----------



## WNBC

I started off the whole audiophile experience with the HD650 + Asgard.  I recall enjoying the HD650 and listening to the Koln Concert for the first time.  I wonder if I went back with a little more experience under my belt, would I enjoy the HD650 as much.  3+ years later I have a better understanding about headphones and other equipment.  But there was a magic with the HD650 that still sticks in my head today.  Do I dare spoil those memories?  Or would I sell everything to go back to a less expensive rig?
  
  
 Quote:


sonido said:


> So anyone else ever have the urge of trying out lower end or past headphones just to see how far you've come and how your ears have adapted? I've always found it easier to notice differences going to poor sound quality as opposed to better. I guess you could call this headphone slumming.


----------



## MickeyVee

Yup.. probably going to get a lesser HP that is more forgiving of older recordings. With good recordings, the HD800 are spectacular but with a lot of 80's music, not so much.  I also have the Momentums and find it a hard listen.. only use them when I travel.
 Interested in the upcoming HE400i or HE560.  Have no urge to go back to what I've had before.
  
 Quote:


sonido said:


> So anyone else ever have the urge of trying out lower end or past headphones just to see how far you've come and how your ears have adapted?


----------



## MIKELAP

swolern said:


> Hello everyone. I got some HD800 a couple weeks ago. And now i am on a continuous hunt for the best flac files for my headphones as everyone knows how picky these cans can be. Even many flac files just dont do these headphones justice. Can anyone provide a link to top tracks for these headphones to really show off its massive soundstage. Looking for the most 3 dimensional recordings.
> 
> I like ALL types of music from A-Z. My favorite albums I have found so far are Wycliffe Gordon: Dreams of New Orleans(as i love trumpets & trombones) & Michael Jackson: Thriller was great.


 
  
 One of my better sounding hires album                http://www.hdtracks.com/there-s-a-time-134442?format=FLAC


----------



## pdrm360

sonido said:


> So anyone else ever have the urge of trying out lower end or past headphones just to see how far you've come and how your ears have adapted? *I've always found it easier to notice differences going to poor sound quality as opposed to better. *I guess you could call this headphone slumming.


 
  
 So I am.


----------



## BournePerfect

pdrm360 said:


> So I am.


 
  
 x3
  
 -Daniel


----------



## eantala

thats a really great point, I also started with the same HD650 and Asgard and was quite satisfied but we can't leave well enough alone.
Spending more we got some things that are technically better but really when it comes down to it, Does it provide any more enjoyment and satisfaction? Im still on the fence regarding that.

on this site they always say "welcome to head fi sorry for your wallet", but there used to be a great saying on audiogon or was it audioasylum? but anyway it went "you have to spend a whole lot of money, in order to learn that you didn't have to spend alot of money"


----------



## LugBug1

sonido said:


> So anyone else ever have the urge of trying out lower end or past headphones just to see how far you've come and how your ears have adapted? I've always found it easier to notice differences going to poor sound quality as opposed to better. I guess you could call this headphone slumming.


 
 I've been hp slumming it since I got my HD800's (well, after 6 months of getting them). I like buying headphones. I also still really like the past flagships. I've re-bought both the HD600 and K701 since getting the HD800 and still enjoy them immensely. And yes it really does make you appreciate the 800's even more. I'm close to getting another Grado actually... 225 or something just for fun. I used to own those and the RS1. Kinda miss em..


----------



## LugBug1

Heres some impressions I made of the some other hp's in comparison. Its buzzin on this thread I can tell ye! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
HD800 or HE500 (upgrading from the HD6XX/Q701) impressions.


----------



## Sorrodje

lugbug1 said:


> I've been hp slumming it since I got my HD800's (well, after 6 months of getting them). I like buying headphones. I also still really like the past flagships. I've re-bought both the HD600 and K701 since getting the HD800 and still enjoy them immensely. And yes it really does make you appreciate the 800's even more. I'm close to getting another Grado actually... 225 or something just for fun. I used to own those and the RS1. Kinda miss em..


 
  
 One more time ... +1 
  
 I've even re-bought equipment i sold to some friends of mine.


----------



## LugBug1

sorrodje said:


> One more time ... +1
> 
> I've even re-bought equipment i sold to some friends of mine.


----------



## Sonido

Here's an interesting thought. We get enjoyment when listening to better gear for the first time. Endorphins are released, but eventually you get used to it and the amount of endorphins levels out. Then you get even better gear and the endorphins peak again, but after a while it levels out again. I'm willing to bet if you objectively measured the levelled out (latent) endorphin levels, it wouldn't be very different, if at all different. Sure other bias comes into play such as money spent, but I think that affects the peak endorphin levels more so than the latent levels. This is because our bodies are not wired to keep a constant high. By this argument, most headphones that you view as an improvement all end up giving the same amount of pleasure once you're used to it. And thus the reason we can never stop upgrading. We are all addicts looking to get that peak endorphin high again and again. Similar concept to drug tolerance, and drugs give you same pleasures as far as your body releasing endorphins. I guess the only economical way about this it's weaning yourself off high fidelity for a while until you're used to $20 headphones again and when you don't think they sound like complete crap, then take out your old headphones you had that got you to where you are now and repeat the same journey again. But who really wants to listen to cheap headphones for an extended time? I guess the true answer is don't do drugs, err, don't care to get that next high so you won't feel the urge to upgrade.

To expand on the eerily similar drug parallels, I notice we constantly argue what sounds better and some bring out objectivity and some say it's all subjective. Well imagine you have a high tolerance to alcohol cuz you have been drinking for a while now. Your friend doesn't drink and has a low tolerance. He gets drunk after two beers, and you've had four beers but aren't even tipsy. Who's having a better time? Sure four beers is objectively more than two, but your friend is having a better time, and has more endorphins pumping through his brain. This is why I'm not surprised if mass customers would get similar enjoyment from their Beats compared to me and my HD800. I would say I'm an objective guy in the whole objective vs subjective war. I'm all about the objective levels of endorphins you got pumping through your body when listening to a pair of headphones.


----------



## LugBug1

sonido said:


> Here's an interesting thought. We get enjoyment when listening to better gear for the first time. Endorphins are released, but eventually you get used to it and the amount of endorphins levels out. Then you get even better gear and the endorphins peak again, but after a while it levels out again. I'm willing to bet if you objectively measured the levelled out (latent) endorphin levels, it wouldn't be very different, if at all different. Sure other bias comes into play such as money spent, but I think that affects the peak endorphin levels more so than the latent levels. This is because our bodies are not wired to keep a constant high. By this argument, most headphones that you view as an improvement all end up giving the same amount of pleasure once you're used to it. And thus the reason we can never stop upgrading. We are all addicts looking to get that peak endorphin high again and again. Similar concept to drug tolerance, and drugs give you same pleasures as far as your body releasing endorphins. I guess the only economical way about this it's weaning yourself off high fidelity for a while until you're used to $20 headphones again and when you don't think they sound like complete crap, then take out your old headphones you had that got you to where you are now and repeat the same journey again. But who really wants to listen to cheap headphones for an extended time? I guess the true answer is don't do drugs, err, don't care to get that next high so you won't feel the urge to upgrade.


 
 Absolutely. All of us get a high when we get something new. Thats exactly why I'm still happy to buy lesser headphones. I know they can't be as good as my HD800 but I still get a buzz/high from getting them. Same with amps - I'm addicted to buying vintage amplifiers. Can't resist a bargain! And I get such a buzz from being the winning bidder. I can't save for the life of me. Why? Because I addicted to buying. Its a disease!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thats why when anyone ever mentions that they have found their endgame. We in the know facepalm.


----------



## WNBC

For me, definitely not more satisfaction but the purchases can initiate the learning process.  And it doesn't mean upgrades as one can learn from sidegrades and downgrades.  The journey is the lesson.  Trying new gear is important and for many of us without friends with gear to borrow it means buying new/used gear.  Everything I know about audio is from head-fi and the PMs from generous members here.  Can't put a price tag on that.  That first HD650 was well worth it to get me engaged in the community.    
  
 So, definitely not more satisfaction 3 years later, but more appreciation for the tools that deliver the music.  All we can hope to do is pass down some bit of knowledge to people in our daily lives and maybe save their wallets from head-fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  In the end, it's nice to have the HD800 but one can enjoy music with whatever fits in one's budget.  What is fun is discovering a new album and hearing it for the first time on say a HD800.  I don't know about you all but there are some headphone:album associations that will always stick in my audio memory.  For the HD650 it was the Koln Concert, for the HE-500 it was Hello Troll (Helge Lien Trio), for the LCD-2 it was Joni Mitchell Blue, and now I'm ready for that magic album with the HD800.    
   
  
  
 Quote:


> Spending more we got some things that are technically better but really when it comes down to it, Does it provide any more enjoyment and satisfaction? Im still on the fence regarding that.


----------



## Audio Jester

A "simple" way to overcome the issue of endorphins and buyers expenditure bias is to try a massive collection of headphones at the same time at a store (or with someone else's collection). During my last trip to Japan I did exactly that. Yodobashi has a wall of heaphones that you can try with many brands. From that experience I was able to quickly find headphones that I enjoyed, and later purchased. When I tried the HD800 I was not immediately drawn to the sound, but there was something in its sonic presentation that gave insight into why it has been such a popular flagship. It was running off the Benchmark DAC2 HGC and although I found the sound lacking I distinctly got the impression that they would scale really well. Personally, I really like the HD650 and running off a BA, it still lives up to the flagship status IMO  . But I feel that getting to try so many headphones in quick succession really does highlight the basic traits of them. The next step is to see how far you can push them until either you are happy or broke....


----------



## MIKELAP

lugbug1 said:


> Absolutely. All of us get a high when we get something new. Thats exactly why I'm still happy to buy lesser headphones. I know they can't be as good as my HD800 but I still get a buzz/high from getting them. Same with amps - I'm addicted to buying vintage amplifiers. Can't resist a bargain! And I get such a buzz from being the winning bidder. I can't save for the life of me. Why? Because I addicted to buying. Its a disease!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 Thats exactly the face my wife gives me when i say thats it , im finish .right before i start lol ,but she always says ya shure why not .You marry those types of girls


----------



## philo50

mikelap said:


> Thats exactly the face my wife gives me when i say thats it , im finish .right before i start lol ,but she always says ya shure why not .You marry those types of girls


 
 +1.....


----------



## Dillan

Good discussions.  I can for sure say that after getting used to such beautiful sound out of some of the best flagships.. I get a little spoiled.

 When you directly compare something "lesser", you get a better appreciation and are reminded of why these beautiful feats of engineering were created.


----------



## kvtaco17

dillan said:


> Good discussions.  I can for sure say that after getting used to such beautiful sound out of some of the best flagships.. I get a little spoiled.
> 
> When you directly compare something "lesser", you get a better appreciation and are reminded of why these beautiful feats of engineering were created.


 
 OR just the opposite... sometimes you learn to appreciate the raw sounds of more forward cans!
  
 I find myself in a mood often where I appreciate something more forward, aggressive and raw... that's why I have my AD2000x and PS500... they all contrast each other very well... only thing I need now is an RS1 and some Stax!


----------



## Dillan

kvtaco17 said:


> OR just the opposite... sometimes you learn to appreciate the raw sounds of more forward cans!
> 
> I find myself in a mood often where I appreciate something more forward, aggressive and raw... that's why I have my AD2000x and PS500... they all contrast each other very well... only thing I need now is an RS1 and some Stax!


 
  
  
 Well to be fair, I would rather listen to poorly recorded material on something other than the HD800's because they take something well recorded and make it sound spectacular, but on the other side of the coin.. they really show the flaws of recordings also.


----------



## kvtaco17

dillan said:


> Well to be fair, I would rather listen to poorly recorded material on something other than the HD800's because they take something well recorded and make it sound spectacular, but on the other side of the coin.. they really show the flaws of recordings also.


 

 Exactly... sometimes I feel they are too good lol


----------



## MIKELAP

kvtaco17 said:


> Exactly... sometimes I feel they are too good lol


 
 Thats why we need a variety of  HP'S.


----------



## koiloco

wnbc said:


> ...For the HD650 it was the Koln Concert, for the HE-500 it was Hello Troll (Helge Lien Trio), for the LCD-2 it was Joni Mitchell Blue, and now I'm ready for that magic album with the HD800.    ...


 
 I really like the way this man thinks.  He knows the right tools for each job.


----------



## kvtaco17

mikelap said:


> Thats why we need a variety of  HP'S.


 
 That reminds me, I'm down to 4 cans... lol


----------



## koiloco

kvtaco17 said:


> That reminds me, I'm down to 4 cans... lol


 
 what a positive way to spin it!


----------



## Mambosenior

kvtaco17 said:


> That reminds me, I'm down to 4 cans... lol



Man, that's tough! Can't the generous souls here at Head-Fi start a collection for you? Alone with only 4 headphones to keep you warm during the long winter? Why, that's positively inhuman.


----------



## kvtaco17

mambosenior said:


> Man, that's tough! Can't the generous souls here at Head-Fi start a collection for you? Alone with only 4 headphones to keep you warm during the long winter? Why, that's positively inhuman.


 

 Right? Our initial goal should be a pair of RS1i's... the Stax SR-009 will be a stretch goal lol


----------



## PTom

I've been reading about the HD800 being extremely detailed and having a very expansive soundstage. How does this headphone compare to reality i.e. if I want a headphone that sounds like real life is this a good option? Or is it better to describe the HD800 experience as hyperreal (i.e. better than or an improvement on actual reality).


----------



## palmfish

ptom said:


> I've been reading about the HD800 being extremely detailed and having a very expansive soundstage. How does this headphone compare to reality i.e. if I want a headphone that sounds like real life is this a good option? Or is it better to describe the HD800 experience as hyperreal (i.e. better than or an improvement on actual reality).


 
  
 It has no resemblance to "real life" whatsoever. All headphones put the soundstage primarily inside your skull. Your brain suspends belief and allows it to be enjoyable.


----------



## Nitori

imo you get an almost speaker-like experience......which is still far away from "real-life" however
  
 still, there's is no other headphone (that I know) that creates something so enjoyable soundstage wise.......interesting on some genres and can be annoying on other genres


----------



## koiloco

palmfish said:


> It has no resemblance to "real life" whatsoever. All headphones put the soundstage primarily inside your skull. Your brain suspends belief and allows it to be enjoyable.


 
 +1


----------



## pdrm360

koiloco said:


> palmfish said:
> 
> 
> > It has no resemblance to "real life" whatsoever. All headphones put the soundstage primarily inside your skull. Your brain suspends belief and allows it to be enjoyable.
> ...


 
 +2


----------



## Spakka

I would agree the soundstage is nothing like reality... Sometimes it even sounds, dare I say it, a bit too separated, a bit weird. 
  
 I still love my HD800s though, to the extent of having no interest in investing in new headphones for a very, very long time.


----------



## icebear

ptom said:


> I've been reading about the HD800 being extremely detailed and having a very expansive soundstage. How does this headphone compare to reality i.e. if I want a headphone that sounds like real life is this a good option? Or is it better to describe the HD800 experience as hyperreal (i.e. better than or an improvement on actual reality).


 

 There is a crucial difference between reality and your favorite armchair :
 When you are at home, relaxed in your private environment you are focusing (ideally) only to listening, maybe even with your eyes closed. That way, you are perceptible to every minute acoustic detail that your system is able to transport. A live concert is completely different. You have visual contact to the musicians and connected to that your hearing is focusing on the direction of your visual perception. Both together will enable you to be aware of things that you wouldn't pay attention to other wise, although they are there.
  
 Usually all of the performance is happening in front of you and not right and left next to your ear canal, so there is a crucial difference in listening to something via a headphone with almost perfect channel separation and listening in a regular space with minute time delay to the left and right ear that enable locating the source of the noise.
  
 The HD800 has the ability to create the impression of a great sound stage, comparing among headphones but there is no comparison with a proper speaker set up.


----------



## Mambosenior

icebear said:


> There is a crucial difference between reality and your favorite armchair...




At my age, I vote for armchair. Live events, even staid classical evenings, have become scenarios for bothersome distractions due to the diminishing lack of courtesy in society. I do miss live experiences but not on present terms.


----------



## Dillan

Honestly, the HD800 with a good binaural recording can kind of trick me into thinking that I _am_ at some live event.  However, a regular high quality digital track or maybe a spin of the vinyl puts me back into reality, but not in a bad way.  I thoroughly enjoy the music, but unless its some binaural recording "trying" to trick you into thinking the band is right there.. I am fully aware of the music just being music.  Not that it is a bad thing. 

 I love every minute of it - It still sounds beautiful.


----------



## lamboy1

I love my 800's but there is no comparison to aerial 10 t's which I have
 had for 15 years


----------



## froger

palmfish said:


> It has no resemblance to "real life" whatsoever. All headphones put the soundstage primarily inside your skull. Your brain suspends belief and allows it to be enjoyable.



Soundstage inside your skull? Does it mean that the singer or instruments are playing as if they are positioned inside or near your head?


----------



## Dillan

froger said:


> Soundstage inside your skull? Does it mean that the singer or instruments are playing as if they are positioned inside or near your head?


 


 I can kind of relate to that.


----------



## drez

ptom said:


> I've been reading about the HD800 being extremely detailed and having a very expansive soundstage. How does this headphone compare to reality i.e. if I want a headphone that sounds like real life is this a good option? Or is it better to describe the HD800 experience as hyperreal (i.e. better than or an improvement on actual reality).




That is a tough question. Hd800's have some qualities which make them realistic, such as speed and dynamic range, but compared to live music they have too much treble. If you don't mind eq or gear matching you might be able to fix this. Anax mod also fixes this bit makes them more veiled and maybe a tad less dynamic.


----------



## Dillan

Maybe PTom is in search of something more "natural" instead of "neutral".


----------



## Stoids

After having a few months to enjoy my current setup (Bifrost > WA6-SE > HD800/LCD2.2), I'm having an internal struggle deciding if I want to sell the LCDs and reallocate that money towards a superior source and a more synergistic amp choice (WA2 most likely) for the HD800s. They get the majority of time on my head, but sometimes I need the change of pace for certain electronic/hip-hop. Tough to make the distinction as to whether having that change of pace is more valuable than upgrading my DAC.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

stoids said:


> After having a few months to enjoy my current setup (Bifrost > WA6-SE > HD800/LCD2.2), I'm having an internal struggle deciding if I want to sell the LCDs and reallocate that money towards a superior source and a more synergistic amp choice (WA2 most likely) for the HD800s. They get the majority of time on my head, but sometimes I need the change of pace for certain electronic/hip-hop. Tough to make the distinction as to whether having that change of pace is more valuable than upgrading my DAC.


 
  
 what tubes do u use on WA6-SE?


----------



## Stoids

dubstep girl said:


> what tubes do u use on WA6-SE?


 
 With the HD800s -- Sophia 274b Mesh + 6EW7 (though I've found the fat Sylvania 6FD7s to be quite enjoyable using low impedance jack. Too much floor noise when using with high jack).
 With LCD2s -- 274b + 6FD7. 
  
 I have been waiting around to pull the trigger on 596s to really mesh with the LCD2s. My initial interest in the WA6-SE was based on the fact that it could drive both of these headphones well -- with the ability to tinker the sound lightly through tube choices. The amp is what is is though: fast, dynamic, and a great middle ground compromise between SS and tube choices. The more I listen to both headphones, the more I come to the conclusion that the HD800 is that ideal approach to what I'm looking for in a headphone. Ultimately my question centers around weighing whether having that second set of headphones for occasional use would be better satisfied by a superior source and amp that lends itself to mitigating the few complaints associated with the HD800s. My lack of experience with another pairing doesn't allow me to have context to make a decision.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sounds like you got the right tubes for them. 
  
 if you prefer the HD 800 over the LCD-2, you have to decide, can it also cover everything you use the LCD-2 for? if so, then yes,i  think it would be worth it. 
  
 do you have any complaints about the WA6-SE and hd 800, or what do you it feel lacks or could improve ?


----------



## redstar

What would one pair with an HD800 to get the best enjoyment for watching movies? Source PS4 Blurays.


----------



## Sonido

I've come to realize that to get the best bang for your buck, get the best amp you can afford for one headphone than getting one that works with multiple headphones. In other words, jack off all trade amps aren't as good as a specialized amps at the same price. Hence I have different amps for each headphone.


----------



## MickeyVee

Hey Dubstep Girl..
 Got the WA2 on my radar for the HD800. Got a couple of questions re tubes..
 - How's the stock set that Woo offers?
 - Any Woo specific upgrades you would recommend?
 - Any other choices?
  
 Just being a noob with tubes at this level, I've taken some notes from what I've been reading (might be helpful for some others too) .. any comments on them, favourites, some to knock off the list?
  
 WA2 Tube Notes:
 • Rectifier - Turns A/C into D/C *** Amperex Holland EZ80, **RFT EZ80

 • Driver [Signal/Input] - Fed by the RCA inputs, sends waveform to the Power tube - JAN Phillips 6922, Sylvania 6DJ8, Reflector 6N23P-EV

 • Power [Output] - Amplifies the waveform given by the Driver tube and sends it to the headphones: GEC 6AS7G**,  Tungsol 6080 or 5998, Tungsol 7236**, Sylvania 7236, RCA 6AS7G, Chatham 6AS7G, Amperex 6922
  
 Thanks!!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

mickeyvee said:


> Hey Dubstep Girl..
> Got the WA2 on my radar for the HD800. Got a couple of questions re tubes..
> - How's the stock set that Woo offers?
> - Any Woo specific upgrades you would recommend?
> ...


 
  
 the tung sol 7236 jack offers are ok but i prefer the 5998 overall, especially for the price. 
  
 amperex 6922 is a driver tube, and a very good one too. 
  
 i've never tried amperex ez80 but i can only imagine them to be good.
  
 sylvania 7308 are nice, stock philips/sylvania 6dj8 are ok but not i personally don't like them too much.
  
 the reflector 6n23pev is great, great bass too, punchy. one of the better tubes out there especially considering their low price, bassy and fun but not quite as refined as the amperex 6922's.
  
 for 6AS7G's , chatham is good but i haven't tried them. GEC is best, and 5998 is fantastic, i don't think the tung sol 6080 would be as good. its considered entry level like the regular 6080s just slightly better. 
 i slightly prefer the sylvania 7236 to the tung sol, most people would disagree, but i find the tung sol 7236 too warm and mushy.


----------



## MickeyVee

Thanks DSG, you're awesome! I'll update my notes.


----------



## 62ohm

I think my decision of upgrading my DAC from Modi to Cambridge DM100 kinda ruined the Synergy of my HD800-WA3 pairing... It gets kinda sibilant now, could be better after burn-in but I'm skeptical about it.


----------



## Spakka

62ohm said:


> I think my decision of upgrading my DAC from Modi to Cambridge DM100 kinda ruined the Synergy of my HD800-WA3 pairing... It gets kinda sibilant now, could be better after burn-in but I'm skeptical about it.


 
  
  
 I'm not surprised... Cambridge Audio stuff all tends to be a touch on the bright, occasionally sibilant side (at least in my fairly extensive experience with it). It usually improves a little with burn-in, but I wouldn't hold my breath for a DAC...


----------



## Sorrodje

Personnaly, I've really enjoyed Dacmagic 1st Gen + Meier Corda Jazz Combo with my HD800 and I didn't notice any excessive sibilance.


----------



## skeptic

62ohm said:


> I think my decision of upgrading my DAC from Modi to Cambridge DM100 kinda ruined the Synergy of my HD800-WA3 pairing... It gets kinda sibilant now, could be better after burn-in but I'm skeptical about it.




If you are contemplating a new direction, you might give bottlehead amps some consideration. I far prefer(ed) my crack (with my hd650's and all the more so with my hd800s) to my prior woo 3. (And for reference, I lived with both under the same roof for over a year, generally running Amperex pq 7308s and a 5998 in my woo.) With the ccs boards (speedball) and film caps in place, the crack is a more sophisticated design than a wa3 or wa2. To my ears, it sounds noticeably faster, more detailed and more dynamic (all in all, more involving and exciting) than the woos. 

Stepping up to a higher rung, I recently completed my mainline, which is just brilliant with hd800s. While retaining what I think of as Bottlehead's house sound, the mainline has the sort of clean transients, natural timbre, tight impactful bass and accurate but never strident trebles that set great tube amps apart from those that are just good. Topology is very similar to an ecp l-2 (highly regulated, ccs, single gain stage, 6c45pi driven, parafeed tube amp with high quality custom output transformers). Sadly, despite rave reviews (eg innerfidelity), the l-2 isn't presently being produced, but if you are willing to undertake the build, or to engage a builder, mainline is an awesome option.


----------



## 62ohm

skeptic said:


> If you are contemplating a new direction, you might give bottlehead amps some consideration. I far prefer(ed) my crack (with my hd650's and all the more so with my hd800s) to my prior woo 3. (And for reference, I lived with both under the same roof for over a year, generally running Amperex pq 7308s and a 5998 in my woo.) With the ccs boards (speedball) and film caps in place, the crack is a more sophisticated design than a wa3 or wa2. To my ears, it sounds noticeably faster, more detailed and more dynamic (all in all, more involving and exciting) than the woos.
> 
> Stepping up to a higher rung, I recently completed my mainline, which is just brilliant with hd800s. While retaining what I think of as Bottlehead's house sound, the mainline has the sort of clean transients, natural timbre, tight impactful bass and accurate but never strident trebles that set great tube amps apart from those that are just good. Topology is very similar to an ecp l-2 (highly regulated, ccs, single gain stage, 6c45pi driven, parafeed tube amp with high quality custom output transformers). Sadly, despite rave reviews (eg innerfidelity), the l-2 isn't presently being produced, but if you are willing to undertake the build, or to engage a builder, mainline is an awesome option.


 
  
 I've listened to the Crack (non-speedball) HD800 combo, and I have to admit it was something. Might have to listen to the WA2 as well before deciding what my goal setup would be.
  
  
  
 By the way, does anyone know how would direct sunlight exposure affect HD800's paint? I heard numerous people having problems with its paint, would this factor contribute to the problem?


----------



## Sonido

I noticed something recently on my HD800. I found certain electric guitars came off distorted. Of course electric guitars are recorded that way, but I'm never noticed the distortion at such a fine detail before. At first, I thought maybe my new chain was adding distortion since they were tube amps, but when switching to solid state, I found while it was not as apparent, now that I know to look for it at certain parts of the song, I could hear it as well. I'm going to rule that under my chain opening up the HD800 to a new level of detail that you can hear finer distortions of electric guitars from the recording. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Granted this makes it a bit more unforgiving. Now a few days ago when my Quickie's batteries were dying, and the bass became a distorted mess, that was nasty. But since this distortion only affects electric guitars, I think it's reproducing the sound as intended.


----------



## musicisthekey

I would like to chime in about my experience with HD800. I ordered them brand new from an authorized dealer a couple of weeks ago and when I got them I contemplated about sending the package back without even giving the headphones a try after reading such things about them as that they are too bright, sibilant, have harsh treble to which I'm very sensitive, very bass light, thin sounding and boring. As I was getting ready to drop the package off at the post office, I heard the voice in my head saying just give them a try. Therefore, I did.
  
 These are my first impressions. Where is the sibilance and harsh treble everyone is talking about? I find the treble to be silky smooth with no hint of sibilance. In comparisons, HD650 has harsh treble. The bass is very satisfying and by no means I will call HD800 bass light. ATH-AD900x and its siblings are bass light in my opinion. HD800 bass may not have the impact of LCD2 or the sub bass of D7000 but the bass is there when it's called for and definitely a huge improvement over HD600 bass. The only time I found them thin sounding was on poorly mastered records from the 80's. The whole time I was listening to HD800, I kept on tapping my toes because the sound signature was extremely engaging to my ears. One last thing which is a biggie for me. I experienced zero listening fatigue after 2 hours of non stop listening at moderate volume.
  
 To summarize my experience with HD800 is that they made me believe in God and I wish I bought them sooner.


----------



## pdrm360

musicisthekey said:


> I would like to chime in about my experience with HD800. I ordered them brand new from an authorized dealer a couple of weeks ago and when I got them I contemplated about sending the package back without even giving the headphones a try after reading such things about them as that they are too bright, sibilant, have harsh treble to which I'm very sensitive, very bass light, thin sounding and boring. As I was getting ready to drop the package off at the post office, I heard the voice in my head saying just give them a try. Therefore, I did.
> 
> These are my first impressions. Where is the sibilance and harsh treble everyone is talking about? I find the treble to be silky smooth with no hint of sibilance. *In comparisons, HD650 has harsh treble.* The bass is very satisfying and by no means I will call HD800 bass light. ATH-AD900x and its siblings are bass light in my opinion. HD800 bass may not have the impact of LCD2 or the sub bass of D7000 but the bass is there when it's called for and definitely a huge improvement over HD600 bass. The only time I found them thin sounding was on poorly mastered records from the 80's. The whole time I was listening to HD800, I kept on tapping my toes because the sound signature was extremely engaging to my ears. One last thing which is a biggie for me. I experienced zero listening fatigue after 2 hours of non stop listening at moderate volume.
> 
> To summarize my experience with HD800 is that they made me believe in God and I wish I bought them sooner.


 
  
 Yeah, the HD800s are awesome but honestly, the HD650s don't have harsh trebles.


----------



## 62ohm

musicisthekey said:


> I would like to chime in about my experience with HD800. I ordered them brand new from an authorized dealer a couple of weeks ago and when I got them I contemplated about sending the package back without even giving the headphones a try after reading such things about them as that they are too bright, sibilant, have harsh treble to which I'm very sensitive, very bass light, thin sounding and boring. As I was getting ready to drop the package off at the post office, I heard the voice in my head saying just give them a try. Therefore, I did.
> 
> These are my first impressions. Where is the sibilance and harsh treble everyone is talking about? I find the treble to be silky smooth with no hint of sibilance. In comparisons, HD650 has harsh treble. The bass is very satisfying and by no means I will call HD800 bass light. ATH-AD900x and its siblings are bass light in my opinion. HD800 bass may not have the impact of LCD2 or the sub bass of D7000 but the bass is there when it's called for and definitely a huge improvement over HD600 bass. The only time I found them thin sounding was on poorly mastered records from the 80's. The whole time I was listening to HD800, I kept on tapping my toes because the sound signature was extremely engaging to my ears. One last thing which is a biggie for me. I experienced zero listening fatigue after 2 hours of non stop listening at moderate volume.
> 
> To summarize my experience with HD800 is that they made me believe in God and I wish I bought them sooner.


 
  
 People perceive SQ differently I guess, some said that they can't listen to the HD800 for more than 15 minutes while yesterday I've just listened to them for 10 straight hours..


----------



## musicisthekey

pdrm360 said:


> Yeah, the HD800s are awesome but honestly, the HD650s don't have harsh trebles.


 

 You are right. It's not harsh. It can be grainy.


----------



## MickeyVee

Nice little story. Glad you like them and welcome to the club!
 Your experience with the HD800 pretty much mirrors mine to the T.  Love the no fatigue part.. first for me in the HP world. I have a ton of 80s music and since that era was my prime and I DJ'd during the 80s and 90s, I really love the music. The HD800 is not perfect for that so my solution will be to find a complementary set of headphones which would work for 80s and poorly recorded material.  
  
 Quote:


musicisthekey said:


> I would like to chime in about my experience with HD800....
> 
> The only time I found them thin sounding was on poorly mastered records from the 80's. The whole time I was listening to HD800, I kept on tapping my toes because the sound signature was extremely engaging to my ears. One last thing which is a biggie for me. I experienced zero listening fatigue after 2 hours of non stop listening at moderate volume.
> 
> To summarize my experience with HD800 is that they made me believe in God and I wish I bought them sooner.


----------



## Mambosenior

pdrm360 said:


> Yeah, the HD800s are awesome but honestly, *the HD650s don't have harsh treble*s.




No worries, the 650 doesn't have any treble.
8^)


----------



## BobJS

mambosenior said:


> No worries, the 650 doesn't have any treble.
> 8^)


 
  
 Agreed .... when I'm looking to turn down the brightness, I won't dial down below my HE-500s


----------



## punit

pdrm360 said:


> Yeah, the HD800s are awesome but honestly, the HD650s don't have harsh trebles.


 

 Not Harsh ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They don't have any treble 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The first time I put them on, I was like " who turned the lights out". So Dark.


----------



## pdrm360

punit said:


> Not Harsh !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think someone already told that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








mambosenior said:


> No worries, *the 650 doesn't have any treble.*
> 8^)


----------



## Amictus

mambosenior said:


> No worries, the 650 doesn't have any treble.
> 8^)


 

 Well - to Mambosenior and all you nay-sayers... I must tell you that the HD650s just blew my left ear off with the force of the first piccolo entry in Shostakovich's First Symphony (Barshai)!!! There is plenty of treble when it's there and when it's needed. IMHO and in the humble opinion of my set-up: Oppo103, Audiolab M-DAC, Kimber Kable Silver Streak, Schiit Lyr with Tungsram tubes on this occasion, Russ Andrews HD650 replacement cable. YMMV, of course.


----------



## BobJS

amictus said:


> Well - to Mambosenior and all you nay-sayers... I must tell you that the HD650s just blew my left ear off with the force of the first piccolo entry in Shostakovich's First Symphony (Barshai)!!! There is plenty of treble when it's there and when it's needed. IMHO and in the humble opinion of my set-up: Oppo103, Audiolab M-DAC, Kimber Kable Silver Streak, Schiit Lyr with Tungram tubes on this occasion, Russ Andrews HD650 replacement cable. YMMV, of course.


 
  
 Yes, psycho-acoustics are a marvelous thing.  If the HD650 were the only headphones on earth, I would gladly and easily be able to adapt to them.  Fortunately there are many more outstanding offerings able to offer more energy ... "up there".


----------



## Amictus

bobjs said:


> Yes, psycho-acoustics are a marvelous thing.  If the HD650 were the only headphones on earth, I would gladly and easily be able to adapt to them.  Fortunately there are many more outstanding offerings able to offer more energy ... "up there".


 

 Yes. Me and the HD800s. It's only a matter of time and money. I'm so looking forward to being a full member of this excellent thread.


----------



## drez

amictus said:


> Yes. Me and the HD800s. It's only a matter of time and money. I'm so looking forward to being a full member of this excellent thread.


 
  
 Totally worth it IMO, I feel like HD800's are a watershed headphone on my journey.


----------



## James-uk

I've just changed the pads on the 800s for the first time (the old ones were a bit worn ) it was really easy to do and they feel like new again. They are actually a lot firmer out of the box than I remember and especially compared to my worn ones. Now time to listen to some of my favourite albums to see if the sound has changed with brand new pads ! Any excuse for an extended listening session


----------



## musicisthekey

amictus said:


> Well - to Mambosenior and all you nay-sayers... I must tell you that the HD650s just blew my left ear off with the force of the first piccolo entry in Shostakovich's First Symphony (Barshai)!!! There is plenty of treble when it's there and when it's needed. IMHO and in the humble opinion of my set-up: Oppo103, Audiolab M-DAC, Kimber Kable Silver Streak, Schiit Lyr with Tungram tubes on this occasion, Russ Andrews HD650 replacement cable. YMMV, of course.



 


It's good to know that I'm not the only one who thinks that HD650 has plenty of treble. To my ears, it has the perfect treble quantity. In some instances, I have to EQ the treble down. It proves that we all hear differently.


----------



## pdrm360

musicisthekey said:


> amictus said:
> 
> 
> > Well - to Mambosenior and all you nay-sayers... I must tell you that the HD650s just blew my left ear off with the force of the first piccolo entry in Shostakovich's First Symphony (Barshai)!!! There is plenty of treble when it's there and when it's needed. IMHO and in the humble opinion of my set-up: Oppo103, Audiolab M-DAC, Kimber Kable Silver Streak, Schiit Lyr with Tungram tubes on this occasion, Russ Andrews HD650 replacement cable. YMMV, of course.
> ...


 
  
 You posted this to the wrong thread!


----------



## pdrm360

^^ The HD800 lovers cannot hear the trebles on any other headphones than the HD800.


----------



## Amictus

pdrm360 said:


> You posted this to the wrong threat!


 

 Don't you threaden me!


----------



## pdrm360

amictus said:


> Don't you threaden me!


 
 LOL, it was my typo


----------



## James-uk

http://seanolive.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/the-perception-and-measurement-of.html?m=1

Interesting, the HD800 is very close to the target curve that the research is suggesting. Sennheiser really did nail it!


----------



## eantala

how do you guys keep dust/carpet fibers, etc  off the earcups, ?
 do you roll do a few rounds with the lint roller ?
  
 I was using lcd2/he500 for a for a while with the leather cups so this never was a problem..
  
 wish I could put pleather/leather type earcups on these..


----------



## icebear

eantala said:


> how do you guys keep dust/carpet fibers, etc  off the earcups, ?
> do you roll do a few rounds with the lint roller ?
> 
> I was using lcd2/he500 for a for a while with the leather cups so this never was a problem..
> ...


 

 I have mine new but also thought already about the lint roller to take off some dust at some point of time. Once I get some replacement pads, I will try to cover them with some very thin leather to have a surface that is less prone to attract any particles.


----------



## Dillan

eantala said:


> how do you guys keep dust/carpet fibers, etc  off the earcups, ?
> do you roll do a few rounds with the lint roller ?
> 
> I was using lcd2/he500 for a for a while with the leather cups so this never was a problem..
> ...


 
  
 Yea I really hate this.  Sometimes I will use a lint roller, but even that doesn't seem too efficient.  I keep my headphones in cases and boxes instead of headphone stands.. Especially in my listening room which somehow gets very dusty.


----------



## eantala

lint roller it is..
  
 btw I got some adapter earings so I could use the hd800 with balanced Q french silk cable (steve eddy is a great guy) with my  mjolnir amp.  I have to say this thing is just scary good on classical/film scores.  
  
 It took me 15 minutes to figure out you just pull the cables right off, thought they came off in some special way, lol.


----------



## Amictus

Have committed to a pair of HD800s. The HD650s are looking shifty and sad. Many thanks to the contributors to this thread whose thoughts, rants and raves have helped me to this decision.


----------



## LugBug1

amictus said:


> Have committed to a pair of HD800s. The HD650s are looking shifty and sad. Many thanks to the contributors to this thread whose thoughts, rants and raves have helped me to this decision.


----------



## Sorrodje

amictus said:


> Have committed to a pair of HD800s. The HD650s are looking shifty and sad. Many thanks to the contributors to this thread whose thoughts, rants and raves have helped me to this decision.


 





 .. HD800 & HD650 complement imo perfectly.


----------



## pdrm360

sorrodje said:


> .. HD800 & HD650 complement imo perfectly.


 
 +1


----------



## nigeljames

To be complementary the phones should be of a similar standard but different enough to have both.
 The HD800's and any Audeze phone would be good complementary cans. The HD650's are so inferior to the HD800's that I can't see then as complementary.


----------



## third_eye

Agreed, I only kept my HD650 for a very short time alongside the HD800. I think any Audeze (or Hifiman HE500/6) would to better in that role.


----------



## 62ohm

nigeljames said:


> To be complementary the phones should be of a similar standard but different enough to have both.
> The HD800's and any Audeze phone would be good complementary cans. The HD650's are so inferior to the HD800's that I can't see then as complementary.


 


third_eye said:


> Agreed, I only kept my HD650 for a very short time alongside the HD800. I think any Audeze (or Hifiman HE500/6) would to better in that role.


 
  
  
 I was about to get the HD600 to complement the HD800, I guess it's not such a good idea?


----------



## third_eye

62ohm said:


> I was about to get the HD600 to complement the HD800, I guess it's not such a good idea?


 

 The HD600 is a great headphone but not sure it would see much use next to a properly driven HD800. I really think the HE500 is a nice complement for a few more $$.


----------



## 62ohm

third_eye said:


> The HD600 is a great headphone but not sure it would see much use next to a properly driven HD800. I really think the HE500 is a nice complement for a few more $$.


 
  
 The problem is I'm currently running an OTL amp, not sure it would pair well with HE-500.


----------



## James-uk

Gotta love that moment with the 800s when you listen to that song you shazamed earlier . It sounded great in the car but it sounds truly epic on the Senns!


----------



## subtle

Anyone know the authorized dealer with the current lowest price?
  
 I purchased a pair the first week they were released and didn't care for them, but I have the itch to try them out again for some reason.  I see they actually raised the MSRP over the years which is kind of ridiculous and puzzling.


----------



## olor1n

nigeljames said:


> To be complementary the phones should be of a similar standard but different enough to have both.
> The HD800's and any Audeze phone would be good complementary cans. The HD650's are so inferior to the HD800's that I can't see then as complementary.




I've owned the trifecta of HD800/LCD-2 rev.2/HD650 on two separate occasions. The LCD-2 was the least compelling headphone, both times.

Yes, the HD650 is inferior in many ways but to me it beats the Audez'e in terms of engagement. And yes, it can't hold a candle to the HD800 but somehow it's utilised equally.

I don't understand the reasoning behind the requirement that both headphones be of similar "standard" to be complimentary. The real test of a headphone is the extent to which I'm drawn into the music, not necessarily how technically proficient the transducers are. The HD650 excels in this department. It also is different enough in terms of signature that, IMO, it makes for a good complimentary headphone to the HD800.

Your standards must make listening to music such a chore - if the HD650 is so inferior that its redeeming qualities can be dismissed. I'd hate to have that ailment.


----------



## pdrm360

nigeljames said:


> To be complementary the phones should be of a similar standard but different enough to have both.
> The HD800's and any Audeze phone would be good complementary cans. The HD650's are so inferior to the HD800's that I can't see then as complementary.


 


third_eye said:


> Agreed, I only kept my HD650 for a very short time alongside the HD800. I think any Audeze (or Hifiman HE500/6) would to better in that role.


 
  
 I use the HD650 for casual listening and the planars are too heavy for casual times.


----------



## LugBug1

62ohm said:


> I was about to get the HD600 to complement the HD800, I guess it's not such a good idea?


 
 I have both and it suits my listening preferences. Having a smaller (soundstage) and a more easy listening hp along side the huge technical mastery of the mighty one can be a welcoming contrast. If it doesn't sound great on one then it will on the other. Plus, and this may sound daft but using a less technical hp for a while makes you really appreciate the HD800 even more. If all you ever listen to is the best, then you stop appreciating it as much and start to look for flaws haha its the nature of this hobby! 
  
 I tend to listen to my hD600 in bed as it is light and more comfortable when lying down. When I'm easy listening... Taking it easy. You get the picture 
  
 The HD650 are a little darker and would be more of a contrast and probably the better compliment to the HD800 but I could easily recommend both. I couldn't imagine owing the HE500 and HD800 because they are both too similar on a technical level and balance, only one is much better imo. You know the HD6X0 are past flagships. You know they aren't as technically proficient as the younger HD800's, But you love them like the older Uncle(650)/Grandad(600) that they are!
  
 If you are using an OTL amp - stay clear of planar


----------



## Spakka

subtle said:


> Anyone know the authorized dealer with the current lowest price?
> 
> I purchased a pair the first week they were released and didn't care for them, but I have the itch to try them out again for some reason.  I see they actually raised the MSRP over the years which is kind of ridiculous and puzzling.


 
  
  
  
 Sennheiser are fairly strict about advertised prices so it's unlikely any retailer will be advertising anything other than full MSRP. What the majority of retailers will do, in my experience, however is offer a discount if you call them up and ask. Just call around a few until you find the best discount.


----------



## nigeljames

olor1n said:


> I've owned the trifecta of HD800/LCD-2 rev.2/HD650 on two separate occasions. The LCD-2 was the least compelling headphone, both times.
> 
> Yes, the HD650 is inferior in many ways but to me it beats the Audez'e in terms of engagement. And yes, it can't hold a candle to the HD800 but somehow it's utilised equally.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well that's where are opinions differ. I owned the HD650's and found them to be vastly overrated. They were boring and never got me involved as any headphone I have owned or listened to since and to say if beats the Audeze's, in my case the 2.2's, in engagement is just so wrong in so many ways IMO.
  
 I could not keep a 'complementary' can if it was so obviously inferior. If I wanted a complementary phone with a different signature then it would have to be playing on the same level as my other phones IMO.


----------



## philo50

nigeljames said:


> I could not keep a 'complementary' can if it was so obviously inferior. If I wanted a complementary phone with a different signature then it would have to be playing on the same level as my other phones IMO.


 
 +1


----------



## punit

IMHO the TH 900 are good complimentary phones to the HD 800. EDM Fun vs Classical Sober 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . I do not feel any drop in quality when I move from the HD 800 to Th 900 , just a diff sound signature.


----------



## Sorrodje

olor1n said:


> I don't understand the reasoning behind the requirement that both headphones be of similar "standard" to be complimentary. The real test of a headphone is the extent to which I'm drawn into the music, not necessarily how technically proficient the transducers are. The HD650 excels in this department. It also is different enough in terms of signature that, IMO, it makes for a good complimentary headphone to the HD800.
> 
> Your standards must make listening to music such a chore - if the HD650 is so inferior that its redeeming qualities can be dismissed. I'd hate to have that ailment.


 
  
 +1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  . 
  
 I don't think that HD650 is so far from HD800  SQ speaking and these cans are different enough to compliment themselves IME (I had a loaned pair of HD650 in order to compare it to my HD580) . When i Purchased my HD800 I really thought i would keep my 580 as compliment. but I was surprised to see that my HD800 can finally replace completely my 580. I never miss this HD580 but I still miss a forgiving (but good) can to compliment my 800 and my sig pro . I really think a HD650 is one of the more qualified candidates for this purpose.


----------



## nigeljames

punit said:


> IMHO the TH 900 are good complimentary phones to the HD 800. EDM Fun vs Classical Sober
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 +1
  
 Exactly the point of a complimentary can.


----------



## LugBug1

^ Peas are a complimentary to steak but one tastes a hell of a lot better than the other... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
(soz bud, I just love stupid metaphors


----------



## 62ohm

lugbug1 said:


> I have both and it suits my listening preferences. Having a smaller (soundstage) and a more easy listening hp along side the huge technical mastery of the mighty one can be a welcoming contrast. If it doesn't sound great on one then it will on the other. Plus, and this may sound daft but using a less technical hp for a while makes you really appreciate the HD800 even more. If all you ever listen to is the best, then you stop appreciating it as much and start to look for flaws haha its the nature of this hobby!
> 
> I tend to listen to my hD600 in bed as it is light and more comfortable when lying down. When I'm easy listening... Taking it easy. You get the picture
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the detailed thoughts mate, this really helps me (emptying my wallet?) making up my mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 In the past I always despised the HD650 with irrational hatred since every amp I tried with it can't lift its veil IMO. But the last time I tried it with both the WA3 and WA6 it doesn't sound too bad after all, in fact I might as far say I kinda liked it. Not as much as I liked the HD600, but pretty good nonetheless.
  
 I am actually very intrigued to get the LCD-2 to complement these, but like you said, if I am using an OTL amp perhaps it is best if I stay away from it. It would also save me some money, a win-win situation I guess.
  
 One question though, do your HD6x0 really get much time around your head with the presence of HD800?


----------



## longbowbbs

I take the HD650's with me on the road and have the HD800's at home. I also have Toxic cables for both. They each have a place in my listening routine.


----------



## nigeljames

lugbug1 said:


> ^ Peas are a complimentary to steak but one tastes a hell of a lot better than the other...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not if you are a vegetarian!!


----------



## 62ohm

> Originally Posted by *62ohm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> By the way, does anyone know how would direct sunlight exposure affect HD800's paint? I heard numerous people having problems with its paint, would this factor contribute to the problem?


 
  
 Anyone?


----------



## longbowbbs

62ohm said:


> > Originally Posted by *62ohm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> >
> >
> > By the way, does anyone know how would direct sunlight exposure affect HD800's paint? I heard numerous people having problems with its paint, would this factor contribute to the problem?
> ...


 
 After a year my paint is undamaged, so I cannot say.


----------



## LugBug1

62ohm said:


> One question though, do your HD6x0 really get much time around your head with the presence of HD800?


 
 Because I own 4 cans now, I rotate through them all. But the HD800 will always be my go to can and they do get most of my head time. If I only had 800 and 600 it would be about 70/30 to out a crude figure in it  
  


nigeljames said:


> Not if you are a vegetarian!!


 
 Hahah touche'!


----------



## pdrm360

sorrodje said:


> olor1n said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand the reasoning behind the requirement that both headphones be of similar "standard" to be complimentary. The real test of a headphone is the extent to which I'm drawn into the music, not necessarily how technically proficient the transducers are. The HD650 excels in this department. It also is different enough in terms of signature that, IMO, it makes for a good complimentary headphone to the HD800.
> ...


 
 +2


----------



## pdrm360

62ohm said:


> One question though, do your HD6x0 really get much time around your head with the presence of HD800?


 
  
 Yes, I spend almost same time on them.


----------



## olor1n

I tend to spend a week or two with one before switching back to the other. It's cleansing.


----------



## LugBug1

62ohm said:


> Anyone?


 
 Direct sunlight affects most things. But its more likely to only affect the color over a long time imo. 
  
 Mine have a few very small bits rubbed off now (10 month old). I'm very careful with them but on the corners I can see it rubbed off from general wear. I do use mine an awful lot though.


----------



## 62ohm

lugbug1 said:


> Because I own 4 cans now, I rotate through them all. But the HD800 will always be my go to can and they do get most of my head time. If I only had 800 and 600 it would be about 70/30 to out a crude figure in it


 
  
 70/30 is actually pretty good since I'm expecting the same figures if I go for the LCD-2, it could change afterwards but I doubt it. After all, I am a treble-head 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


pdrm360 said:


> Yes, I spend almost same time on them.


 
  
 Really? Now that is quite shocking to me lol
  


olor1n said:


> I tend to spend a week or two with one before switching back to the other. It's cleansing.


 
  
 Good idea, might make you appreciate the HD800 more after wards 
  
  
  
 This is it then I guess, my next pair of cans to complement my Senn would actually be another Senn... Which is ironic since the brand image of Sennheiser is actually really bad to me compared to AKG and Beyerdynamic.


----------



## pdrm360

The HD800 is my weekends cans.


----------



## 62ohm

lugbug1 said:


> Direct sunlight affects most things. But its more likely to only affect the color over a long time imo.
> 
> Mine have a few very small bits rubbed off now (10 month old). I'm very careful with them but on the corners I can see it rubbed off from general wear. I do use mine an awful lot though.


 
  
 In NZ, the UV index regularly exceeds 13 in the summer, would it hasten the process up?


----------



## LugBug1

62ohm said:


> In NZ, the UV index regularly exceeds 13 in the summer, would it hasten the process up?


 
 Really wouldn't like to say bud. All I know is that I've had sun stroke before... And its not good! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 In the uk we don't have much trouble with excessive sunlight... Unfortunately.


----------



## daniel0407

Dear all,
  
 At the moment I am examining my system, and need advice. I have the following:
  
 - Mac Mini as source;
 - Connected via USB to a JKenny modified M2Tech HiFace (Jkenny USB/SPDIF MK2);
 - Connected directly to a one side BNC-F adaptor, directly connected to an attenuator, which is regulated to the maximum attenuation that allows to connect my DAC when listening to 192/24 files;
 - The attenuator is connected to the DAC with a hand made cable, one side F-connector, other side RCA;
 - The DAC is connected to the Black Cube Linear, which I use at the minimum gain;
 - The BCL to the HD800.
  
 The DAC that I have is capable of USB Asynchronous, but I do not like the problems that its drivers were given me, so that is why I decide to use a USB/SPDIF adaptor. I decide to use the attenuator after my wife, which do not listen regularly to music, could pick up the difference between using the attenuator or not, and describe the sound of the system with the attenuator, as better, in a kind of blind test that I did with her. It was not with a random song, but with an acoustic guitar intro in which I myself found the attenuator to give a more analog sound.
  
 My big question is regarding the use of the USB/SPDIF adaptor, because I have the possibility of update the DAC usb chip from a Tenor 8802L (the drivers of which are really BAD!) to a XMOS chip, and use the DAC directly connected to the computer. Would it be better than to use the JKenny in between?
  
 I have to say that I am very happy with the sound of my current system.
  
 Many thanks for any answer,
  
 Daniel


----------



## LugBug1

daniel0407 said:


> My big question is regarding the use of the USB/SPDIF adaptor, because I have the possibility of update the DAC usb chip from a Tenor 8802L (the drivers of which are really BAD!) to a XMOS chip, and use the DAC directly connected to the computer. Would it be better than to use the JKenny in between?
> 
> I have to say that I am very happy with the sound of my current system.
> 
> ...


 
 My experience with USB/SPDIF adapters is very positive. I use one on both of my systems so that I can use coaxial. Whenever I've used asynchronous usb in the past I always get clicks and pops occasionally, especially if I'm using the internet on the same pc. I would say if its working now, don't fix it.


----------



## Anda

XMOS > TE8802L

 The TE8802L was supposed to work out-of-the-box in Linux, but I would call the chip inside my NFB-17.2 defective. I'm using a Hiface Two which works flawlessly in Linux.
 But I understand the thing about attenuation. Are you attenuating the digital signal?


----------



## Maxvla

I own both HD800 and HD600. The 600s never get used except for reviews to look into amp synergies.


----------



## audiophile_007

hey guys, this might be a rtard question but I can't seem to find out where I can get the custom FR chart for my new HD800 (  )
 I live in the Netherlands, can anybody help me? :3


----------



## icebear

You have to register your HD800 on the Sennheiser website ....


----------



## LugBug1

audiophile_007 said:


> hey guys, this might be a rtard question but I can't seem to find out where I can get the custom FR chart for my new HD800 (  )
> I live in the Netherlands, can anybody help me? :3


 
 http://en-uk.sennheiser.com/service-support-services-register-your-product
  
 When you register it they then send it via email


----------



## audiophile_007

Thanks m8!


----------



## daniel0407

anda said:


> XMOS > TE8802L
> 
> The TE8802L was supposed to work out-of-the-box in Linux, but I would call the chip inside my NFB-17.2 defective. I'm using a Hiface Two which works flawlessly in Linux.
> But I understand the thing about attenuation. Are you attenuating the digital signal?


 
  
 Hi Anda,
  
 Yes I am attenuating the digital signal.
  
 Daniel


----------



## Anda

daniel0407 said:


> Yes I am attenuating the digital signal.


 
 May I ask why?


----------



## MIKELAP

lugbug1 said:


> Really wouldn't like to say bud. All I know is that I've had sun stroke before... And its not good!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 To bad ,i can imagine when you guys go south got to be especially careful i remember in Cuba once all it took to get a sunstroke was no hat and 2 hours after was done for 3 days there goes the vacation.


----------



## Dillan

mikelap said:


> To bad ,i can imagine when you guys go south got to be especially careful i remember in Cuba once all it took to get a sunstroke was no hat and 2 hours after was done for 3 days there goes the vacation.


 
  
 Oh gosh!


----------



## seb7

62ohm said:


> This is it then I guess, my next pair of cans to complement my Senn would actually be another Senn... Which is ironic since the brand image of Sennheiser is actually really bad to me compared to AKG and Beyerdynamic.


 
  
  
  Why aren't you considering a Beyer as an alternative since you have an OTL? Their 250ohm and 600ohm go great with OTL amps. My main complementary phone to my HD800s are my T1s. I hardly ever use my HD600s anymore.


maxvla said:


> I own both HD800 and HD600. The 600s never get used except for reviews to look into amp synergies.


 
  
 +1


----------



## pdrm360

seb7 said:


> Why aren't you considering a Beyer as an alternative since you have an OTL? Their 250ohm and 600ohm go great with OTL amps. *My main complementary phone to my HD800s are my T1s.* I hardly ever use my HD600s anymore.


 
  
 +1  but I also use my HD650.


----------



## 62ohm

seb7 said:


> Why aren't you considering a Beyer as an alternative since you have an OTL? Their 250ohm and 600ohm go great with OTL amps. My main complementary phone to my HD800s are my T1s. I hardly ever use my HD600s anymore.


 
  
 I'm looking for a warmer complementary cans here mate. The T1 would make a very nice complement, yes, but not really what I'm looking for right now.


----------



## Dillan

62ohm said:


> I'm looking for a warmer complementary cans here mate. The T1 would make a very nice complement, yes, but not really what I'm looking for right now.


 
  
  
 That crosses out Grado


----------



## daniel0407

anda said:


> May I ask why?


 
  
 According to an answer given apparently by JKenny itself in the following post (in another forum, http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=72468.220):
  


> ... The attenuators work on the Hiface SPDIF output because it is higher than spec i.e 2Vpp as apposed to 0.5Vpp. The attenuators cut down the voltage of this signal & as a result knock down the reflections two-fold. In the case of the Hiface there is no problem bringing down the SPDIF signal but other SPDIF devices may well not have the headroom to spare i.e if you knock down the SPDIF signal too much your DAC will not be able to lock to it.
> ...


 
  
 And I could verify using my wife as "blind" tester that the attenuator change the sound for the better. When I started trying to find a difference between attenuated cable vs no attenuated, it was hard. Almost everything sound the "same", or at least not different enough to not attribute it to placebo. But there was a song intro with a nice reverb in an acoustic guitar, and it was clearly different. I ask my wife: please come and listen. She did several times, and could pick up the difference.
  
 Have a nice Sunday,
  
 Daniel


----------



## seb7

62ohm said:


> I'm looking for a warmer complementary cans here mate. The T1 would make a very nice complement, yes, but not really what I'm looking for right now.


 
  
 The T1s aren't warmer than the HD800s?


----------



## brunk

seb7 said:


> The T1s aren't warmer than the HD800s?


 
 The T1 is more like a slight change of flavor than a complementary headphone IMO, but it really depends on your musical tastes.


----------



## seb7

brunk said:


> The T1 is more like a slight change of flavor than a complementary headphone IMO, but it really depends on your musical tastes.


 
  
 I agree. I somehow missed that 62ohm wanted a complementary phone that was warmer.
  
 That's why I'm getting a new amp, because I would like to have a complementary phone in addition to HD800/T1 with a completely different sound like the Audezes and Hifimans.


----------



## pdrm360

The Audezes and Hifimans are complementary phones to the HD800 in case of comfort/weight too.


----------



## koiloco

pdrm360 said:


> The Audezes and Hifimans are complementary phones to the HD800 in case of comfort/weight too.


 
  
 My daily routine :
  

2000 nods with HD800 as warm up
5000 multi direction nods with HE500 as main work out for neck muscles
2000 nods with HD800 as cool down
  
 The 2 HPs indeed are perfect complements in every way.


----------



## elvergun

brunk said:


> The T1 is more like a slight change of flavor than a complementary headphone IMO, but it really depends on your musical tastes.


 
  
 I agree...that's why I traded my T1 for a T5p. 
  
 The T5p is a great complementary model for the HD800.   It retains some of the T1 signature, plus you get very good isolation and the bass is different (a little more mid-bass) from that of both the HD800 and T1.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

seb7 said:


> The T1s aren't warmer than the HD800s?


 

 The T1 has hotter treble but bigger and deeper bass than the HD800.  Both of them are on the analytical side of the sonic spectrum.


----------



## kazsud

brunk said:


> The T1 is more like a slight change of flavor than a complementary headphone IMO, but it really depends on your musical tastes.


 
 What about the TH900?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sp3llv3xit said:


> The T1 has hotter treble but bigger and deeper bass than the HD800.  Both of them are on the analytical side of the sonic spectrum.




Disagree.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

dubstep girl said:


> Disagree.


 

 You think T1 is warmer?


----------



## Maxvla

Hotter treble, Disagree on the rest. T1 is a mess.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Yes in the midrange. Treblewise, the hd 800 does have a cleaner treble, the t1 having a bigger peak. Both can be hot and bright though depending on recording, equipment, and your own ears sensitivity to different frequencies..

Bass wise, both have a different decay and different sounding bass. The t1 overall has more bass bloom and body but also lacks some super deep extension, hd 800 as wellm both are very good though. Hd 800 can actually have a ton of slam, something the t1 lacks, sometimes the hd 800 hits as hard as an audeze, sometimes it seems leaner. Same with t1.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

dubstep girl said:


> Yes in the midrange. Treblewise, the hd 800 does have a cleaner treble, the t1 having a bigger peak. Both can be hot and bright though depending on recording, equipment, and your own ears sensitivity to different frequencies..
> 
> Bass wise, both have a different decay and different sounding bass. The t1 overall has more bass bloom and body but also lacks some super deep extension, hd 800 as wellm both are very good though. Hd 800 can actually have a ton of slam, something the t1 lacks, sometimes the hd 800 hits as hard as an audeze, sometimes it seems leaner. Same with t1.


 

 So, the T1 has a warmer midrange?

 I only noticed the hotter treble and bigger bass bloom in the T1 against the HD800.  T1 also seems faster than the Senn.  Maybe  I have yet to experience the rest.


----------



## Greed

I don't hear the T1 being faster than the HD800...


----------



## PleasantSounds

elvergun said:


> The T5p is a great complementary model for the HD800.   It retains some of the T1 signature, plus you get very good isolation and the bass is different (a little more mid-bass) from that of both the HD800 and T1.


 
  
 Agree. I also have the T5p and IMO it complements the HD800 very well. 
 Sonically they are not as different as HD800 and LCD3, but what works for me is that being low impedance and closed back, the T5p has its own place in my listening patterns. I find it an ideal headphone for listening at work: it certainly attracts less attention with its looks, works well with practically any source, and isolates from the external noise.


----------



## MacedonianHero

greed said:


> I don't hear the T1 being faster than the HD800...


 
 That's because they're not. Have a look at the published waterfall plots (the T1s while pretty darn good, have a good deal of ringing going on in comparison).


----------



## sp3llv3xit

macedonianhero said:


> That's because they're not. Have a look at the published waterfall plots (the T1s while pretty darn good, have a good deal of ringing going on in comparison).


 


 I beg your indulgence but why is it that the T1 sounds faster compared to the HD800 when playing pop and rock music?


 I know that both have varying bass decay but is it faster on the T1 than on the HD800?


----------



## MacedonianHero

sp3llv3xit said:


> I beg your indulgence but why is it that the T1 sounds faster compared to the HD800 when playing pop and rock music?


 
  
 It certainly doesn't sound faster to me. There is more bloom across the frequency band with the T1s. The HD800s/SR-009s are the quickest two headphones I've heard/owned. Just for the record, I owned my T1s for about 2.5 years (owned the first pair sold here in Canada in Jan. 2010) and really enjoyed them (amps included: MAD Ear+HD, Concerto, GS-1, GS-X, Liquid Fire, WA2, WA22 and GS-X Mk2). And on all these amps (and DACs that have come and gone), the HD800s were the quicker of the two (by a reasonable margin).
  
 As mentioned, the objective waterfall measurements also show the HD800s as "quicker" (and in-line with my experiences). What front end rig are you using?


----------



## kvtaco17

Yeah no... The T1 is not as fast as the HD800...


----------



## sp3llv3xit

macedonianhero said:


> It certainly doesn't sound faster to me. There is more bloom across the frequency band with the T1s. The HD800s/SR-009s are the quickest two headphones I've heard/owned. Just for the record, I owned my T1s for about 2.5 years (owned the first pair sold here in Canada in Jan. 2010) and really enjoyed them.
> 
> As mentioned, the objective waterfall measurements also show the HD800s as "quicker" (and in-line with my experiences). What front end rig are you using?


 


 Ok, Thanks.  Time to do some serious listening then.


----------



## MacedonianHero

sp3llv3xit said:


> Ok, Thanks.  Time to do some serious listening then.


 
 Can I ask you what rig your using?


----------



## pdrm360

sp3llv3xit said:


> So, the T1 has a warmer midrange?
> 
> I only noticed the hotter treble and bigger bass bloom in the T1 against the HD800.  T1 also seems faster than the Senn.  Maybe  I have yet to experience the rest.


 
  
 The T1 has fuller body midrange than the HD800, IMO.


----------



## MacedonianHero

pdrm360 said:


> The T1 has fuller body midrange than the HD800, IMO.


 
 http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=2033&graphID[]=4061&scale=30
  
 What you're likely referring to is the more bloom on the slower T1 drivers?


----------



## pdrm360

macedonianhero said:


> http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=2033&graphID[]=4061&scale=30
> 
> What you're likely referring to is the more bloom on the slower T1 drivers?


 
  
 Hmm, maybe but the T1 is fast in some music.


----------



## Maxvla

A driver doesn't just become faster when it likes the music playing through it. :rolleyes:


----------



## Dillan

maxvla said:


> A driver doesn't just become faster when it likes the music playing through it.


 
  
 +1 haha


----------



## 62ohm

maxvla said:


> A driver doesn't just become faster when it likes the music playing through it.


 
  
 +1. I like the T1, but I see nothing 'special' about it. It's more like a "don't know what to focus" headphones, good at everything but exceptional at nothing IMO.


----------



## pdrm360

maxvla said:


> A driver doesn't just become faster when it likes the music playing through it.


 
  
 I know but I feel the T1 is faster than the HD800 on some music.


----------



## WNBC

I had a chance to listen to the T1 and TH-900 over the past 2 weeks as loaners in my rig.  For my tastes it will be the HD800 that stays in the stable.  The T1 and TH-900 are truly worthy of flagship status but the detail and clarity of the HD800 lets me know I made the right choice.  I found the HD800 speed keeps up with the T1 for jazz, rock, and even electronica.  Keep in mind this was with tube amps.  The T1 may show its speed with a rig based around solid state amps.  For jazz and vocals I lean towards the HD800.  For those times when the HD800 goes a little wide and unruly with the soundstage it would be nice to have a T1 around.  T1 may be preferred at times for reggae and rock because of the body and weight (albeit somewhat bloated).  The TH-900 is a fine headphone as well, just not suited to my tastes which revolve around jazz.  For now my other headphone will be the Alpha Dog.  Whether or not it is complementary I can't say.  When the wife goes to bed I break out the HD-800.  She is complimentary about that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Some things I haven't tried and possibly worthy of complimentary status are HE-6 and LCD-3.  
  
 Listening to Grateful Dead's "American Beauty" for the first time and on the HD800.  HD800 handles these jam bands excellently.  Will try a little Widespread Panic tomorrow.  HD800 ain't just for jazz and classical 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## pdrm360

wnbc said:


> I had a chance to listen to the *T1* and *TH-900* over the past 2 weeks as loaners in my rig.  For my tastes it will be the *HD800* that stays in the stable.  The T1 and TH-900 are truly worthy of flagship status but the detail and clarity of the HD800 lets me know I made the right choice.  I found the HD800 speed keeps up with the T1 for jazz, rock, and even electronica.  Keep in mind this was with tube amps.  The T1 may show its speed with a rig based around solid state amps.  For jazz and vocals I lean towards the HD800.  For those times when the HD800 goes a little wide and unruly with the soundstage it would be nice to have a T1 around.  T1 may be preferred at times for reggae and rock because of the body and weight (albeit somewhat bloated).  The TH-900 is a fine headphone as well, just not suited to my tastes which revolve around jazz.  For now my other headphone will be the *Alpha Dog*.  Whether or not it is complementary I can't say.  When the wife goes to bed I break out the HD-800.  She is complimentary about that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're talking about the six flagships. All of them are great.


----------



## Maxvla

Of those six, I'd say two are great. You own those two and you know how I feel about the T1.


----------



## 62ohm

maxvla said:


> Of those six, I'd say two are great. You own those two and you know how I feel about the T1.


 
  
 May I ask why do LCD-3 not classified as great?


----------



## Maxvla

Mostly imaging/soundstage not being up to snuff. The Alpha Dog shares this, but it's also less than 1/3 the price so it's more forgivable. The Alpha is the best isolating closed headphone I've heard yet, but it does have some problems. While technically closed I prefer the prototype TH900 (more neutral than bass happy retail version), but they don't truly isolate. I've heard the Paradox but only briefly. I don't recall anything other than being mildly impressed.


----------



## Subsequence

Agreed on the T-1, it just sounds confused and it causes fatigue in minutes for me. I guess my ears don't like treble peaks and ringing. I love the HD800 though but it needs the foam mod otherwise it starts to fatigue after a while.


----------



## preproman

wnbc said:


> I had a chance to listen to the T1 and TH-900 over the past 2 weeks as loaners in my rig.  For my tastes it will be the HD800 that stays in the stable.  The T1 and TH-900 are truly worthy of flagship status but the detail and clarity of the HD800 lets me know I made the right choice.  I found the HD800 speed keeps up with the T1 for jazz, rock, and even electronica.  Keep in mind this was with tube amps.  The T1 may show its speed with a rig based around solid state amps.  For jazz and vocals I lean towards the HD800.  For those times when the HD800 goes a little wide and unruly with the soundstage it would be nice to have a T1 around.  T1 may be preferred at times for reggae and rock because of the body and weight (albeit somewhat bloated).  The TH-900 is a fine headphone as well, just not suited to my tastes which revolve around jazz.  For now my other headphone will be the Alpha Dog.  Whether or not it is complementary I can't say.  When the wife goes to bed I break out the HD-800.  She is complimentary about that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The HD800s and HE-6s are a really good one two punch.  I'm still waiting to hear the LCD-X, that could replace the HE-6 being it's a much easier headphone to drive and you could most likely use the same amp with the HD800s.


----------



## magiccabbage

macedonianhero said:


> Can I ask you what rig your using?


 
 Its funny how much that question is avoided.


----------



## drez

preproman said:


> The HD800s and HE-6s are a really good one two punch.  I'm still waiting to hear the LCD-X, that could replace the HE-6 being it's a much easier headphone to drive and you could most likely use the same amp with the HD800s.


 
  
 I agree, I miss my HE06 quite often, but I wasn't willing to buy a speaker amp due to limited desk space, that and I heard HD800's at a meet.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  In all seriousness though HE-6 do have a smoothness and body which would be a welcome change from the HD800, or so I would imagine based off memory.


----------



## elvergun

maxvla said:


> The Alpha is the best isolating closed headphone I've heard yet,


 
 Have you heard the T5p?


----------



## WNBC

Which amps?  Did I luck out by starting out with a tube amp and the HD800?  I can listen for hours with no fatigue.  Is some of the fatigue due to music selection and SS amps?  I primarily listen to jazz, folk, etc., but none of it is necessarily fast music.  I imagine listening to Metallica for 3 hours would be fatiguing on any headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  And, I like Metallica.  I probably will not need to do the various mods based on my amp and music listening preferences.       
  
  
 Quote:


subsequence said:


> Agreed on the T-1, it just sounds confused and it causes fatigue in minutes for me. I guess my ears don't like treble peaks and ringing. I love the HD800 though but it needs the foam mod otherwise it starts to fatigue after a while.


----------



## WNBC

When I first heard the Alpha Dog my background was the HE-500, LCD-2 rev1/rev2, HD600, HD650, TH-600, and some other sub $300 headphones.  Now that I have owned the HD-800 and listened to the T1 and TH-900, I've got a different opinion about the strengths and weaknesses of the Alpha Dog.  Now that I've heard what imaging is when done well I will agree it is a weakness of the Dog.  Other than that I do not mind putting it on listening to a variety of music because it is a smooth, non-fatiguing experience at a price I feel is very fair for this headphone.  The isolation of the Alpha Dog is a major selling point and for my living situation complements the HD-800 really well.  However, when the wife goes to bed I reach for the HD-800.    
  
 HE-6 is probably on my list to try next but I'm also thinking of reading up on the new Hifiman planars.  For now, if I can stay away from those thread I have a chance of resisting the urge to be in on the first batch of them to reach our shores.  
  
  
 Quote:


maxvla said:


> Mostly imaging/soundstage not being up to snuff. The Alpha Dog shares this, but it's also less than 1/3 the price so it's more forgivable. The Alpha is the best isolating closed headphone I've heard yet, but it does have some problems. While technically closed I prefer the prototype TH900 (more neutral than bass happy retail version), but they don't truly isolate. I've heard the Paradox but only briefly. I don't recall anything other than being mildly impressed.


 
  
  


preproman said:


> The HD800s and HE-6s are a really good one two punch.  I'm still waiting to hear the LCD-X, that could replace the HE-6 being it's a much easier headphone to drive and you could most likely use the same amp with the HD800s.


----------



## Subsequence

Currently i'm using it on an Audio-gd phoenix and sometimes on a V200 with the dac being a V800. They both have a reputation for being smooth but if the recording is bad you will hear it and i think that is more important then music type. The foam mod if done well really enhances the experience imo, does not change the overall character it just reduces ringing caused by reflective surfaces inside the cup. Like i said i guess my ears are sensitive to that 

Regarding tube amps, i do have the itch to try one again but the remote on my phoenix is so damn handy. Not that many tubeamps in europe compared to the us but i do have my eye on the Icon audio Hp8. Rather not order overseas due to shipping costs and warranty.


----------



## Maxvla

elvergun said:


> Have you heard the T5p?



Yes, and it is one of my favorites. I'd slot it 3rd behind the prototype TH900 and the Alpha Dogs. It's by no means neutral or accurate, but it has a fun sound to it that I really enjoyed, especially with classical works. It sounds positively cavernous!


----------



## pdrm360

wnbc said:


>


 
  
 I also like Metallica on the Alpha Dog with bass boost, but definitely not on the HD800.


----------



## elvergun

maxvla said:


> Yes, and it is one of my favorites. I'd slot it 3rd behind the prototype TH900 and the Alpha Dogs. It's by no means neutral or accurate, but it has a fun sound to it that I really enjoyed, especially with classical works. It sounds positively cavernous!


 
 Interesting.
  
 I would put the T5p ahead of the of the Alpha Dog.  
  
 I have not heard the TH900...but with so many people putting it so high on their lists, I'm now curious.  Someone had them at a recent meet - I saw them, but I forgot to stop by to listen to them.


----------



## Maxvla

The retail TH900 sounds completely different. It's way too bassy. The proto was warm but fairly neutral.


----------



## third_eye

maxvla said:


> The retail TH900 sounds completely different. It's way too bassy. The proto was warm but fairly neutral.


 

 How do like the UERM? I got to hear it again this weekend and it's almost like a mini-HD800. Really impressive.


----------



## preproman

maxvla said:


> The retail TH900 sounds completely different. It's way too bassy. The proto was warm but fairly neutral.


 
 I agree with this.  It also has a midrange suck out that bothers the heck out of me.


----------



## Maxvla

third_eye said:


> How do like the UERM? I got to hear it again this weekend and it's almost like a mini-HD800. Really impressive.



My UERM doesn't really sound like my HD800. It is in the ball park, but the UERM is warmer with more bass and less sparkle up top. Detail is still very good on the UERM, but the HD800 is superior. I prefer the soundstage of the UERM, however. It is holographic, very 3D. The HD800 is the closest I've heard from full size headphones, but it's not perfect. So while there are similarities, there are more differences.


----------



## BournePerfect

preproman said:


> I agree with this.  It also has a midrange suck out that bothers the heck out of me.


 
  
 Yep-overbearing bass at times-and mid suckout sucked. The ZDSE helped in both of those regards though-but I still greatly prefered the HD800 in all aspects to it.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Amictus

Has anyone tried the Moon Audio Black Dragon V2 cable for the HD800? I am finding it difficult to find reviews, although a number seem to be being resold, which may tell its own story (or not). I would also be grateful to hear from anyone with cable suggestions for these cans, The SAA Endorphin looks fantastic, but I am not prepared to send the cans away to have a cable fitted. PMs welcome, except from cable deniers. Thanks.


----------



## uelover

amictus said:


> Has anyone tried the Moon Audio Black Dragon V2 cable for the HD800? I am finding it difficult to find reviews, although a number seem to be being resold, which may tell its own story (or not). I would also be grateful to hear from anyone with cable suggestions for these cans, The SAA Endorphin looks fantastic, but I am not prepared to send the cans away to have a cable fitted. PMs welcome, except from cable deniers. Thanks.




There are plug and play version of the SAA endorphin cable. You need not send your hd800 away.


----------



## olor1n

amictus said:


> Has anyone tried the Moon Audio Black Dragon V2 cable for the HD800? I am finding it difficult to find reviews, although a number seem to be being resold, which may tell its own story (or not). I would also be grateful to hear from anyone with cable suggestions for these cans, The SAA Endorphin looks fantastic, but I am not prepared to send the cans away to have a cable fitted. PMs welcome, except from cable deniers. Thanks.


 
  
 Forget the alternatives Amictus. Contact Steve at Q Audio. You won't be disappointed.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the HD 800 is definitely a faster headphone than T1, though the T1 is still pretty fast compared to alot of other headphones. i prefer T1 as all rounder, but with GSX the HD 800 sounds so good it can work for everything as well, and sounds alot better than T1 at the end, it scales much higher. 
  
 i do love the T1 though, being my favorite headphone for a very long time.
  
 and i plan on rebuying HD 800 sometime in the future, for now i'm happy with HE-6 as its better all rounder for me.


----------



## preproman

amictus said:


> Has anyone tried the Moon Audio Black Dragon V2 cable for the HD800? I am finding it difficult to find reviews, although a number seem to be being resold, which may tell its own story (or not). I would also be grateful to hear from anyone with cable suggestions for these cans, The SAA Endorphin looks fantastic, but I am not prepared to send the cans away to have a cable fitted. PMs welcome, except from cable deniers. Thanks.


----------



## icebear

That looks like a new entry point to the driver to get the SAA Endorphin hardwired, rather than using the previous plug in entry, correct ?
 When looking at the 2 microscopic pins in the orig. HD800 plugs, I think going hardwired is much better.


----------



## Frank I

The Moon Black Dragon V2 is excellent with the the HD800. I am doing a review on three Moon cable for Positive Feedback. The Black Dragon for the HE6 and HD800 and the Silver Dragon for the lCVDX and LCD 2 and the Moon cables  are all great cables. I really like the HD800 cable from Drew stable as well ad Steve Q cables for the lCD headphones . Cannot go wrong with either of these cable makers both do outstanding work and provide quality products.


----------



## erikfreedom

i have Black Dragon V2 Premium HD800 Headphone Cable from moon audio and I like it a lot.  I wish they made the same version of this cable in the silver dragon line with all the same hardware for the hd 800.


----------



## Frank I

He probably will make it for you if you ask for the silver but I think it may be too bright for the hd800 which is why he probably does not offer it.


----------



## preproman

icebear said:


> That looks like a new entry point to the driver to get the SAA Endorphin hardwired, rather than using the previous plug in entry, correct ?
> When looking at the 2 microscopic pins in the orig. HD800 plugs, I think going hardwired is much better.


 
  
 Nope same entry point..


----------



## MickeyVee

+1 for Q. They're a beautiful looking and sounding cable. Have them for my HD800. Had the Black Dragon for my HD650 and from a comfort level, the Q wins hands down.  SQ wise, you probably can't go wrong with either.
 Quote:


olor1n said:


> Forget the alternatives Amictus. Contact Steve at Q Audio. You won't be disappointed.


----------



## Amictus

I'm not having much luck quoting MickeyVee and olor1n, but thanks to both of you. I'll live with the stock cable for a little while, and then start thinking...
  
 Partly thanks to Jan Meier and his excellent across-the-board sale, I have just made a sHiDnificant purc800se. (http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/) I wish that I had more euros lying fallow - his DAC looks good. He is certainly nice to deal with. I'll post when the Meisterwerk arrives. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Thanks again to all who have commented.


----------



## punit

The HD 800 sure does sound good on the Meier Daccord + Classic Stack.


----------



## elvergun

maxvla said:


> The retail TH900 sounds completely different. It's way too bassy. The proto was warm but fairly neutral.


 
  
 Geez...it seems that everything that Fostex makes must be modified in order to sound good.


----------



## RUMAY408

punit said:


> The HD 800 sure does sound good on the Meier Daccord + Classic Stack.


 
 Had to wait a while (2 weeks) to get that combo as they ship from Germany, but well worth the wait.   Jan Meier is also easy to work with.
  
 The speed of the HD800 is amazing, I was rocking "Captain Fantastic and The Brown Dirt Cowboy" SACD by Elton John tonight.  I compared the HD800 head to head with T1 and I was surprised at how much better this disc sounded with the HD800.


----------



## TwoEars

One more review in case anyone's interested:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-hd-800-headphones/reviews/10337


----------



## Amictus

twoears said:


> One more review in case anyone's interested:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-hd-800-headphones/reviews/10337


 

 Oh, yes, TwoEars. I am 6-8 days away from receiving a pair - I was definitely interested in your careful review. Thank you.


----------



## Sorrodje

twoears said:


> One more review in case anyone's interested:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-hd-800-headphones/reviews/10337


 
  
 Great review. I fully agree with you and my experience with HD800 is exactly the same.


----------



## BobJS

twoears said:


> One more review in case anyone's interested:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-hd-800-headphones/reviews/10337


 
  
 Spot- on!


----------



## icebear

Indeed great review, sums it up pretty accurately.
 I have the exact same impressions although I can comment on the amp part.
 Currently I have hooked the HD800 directly to my e20 DAC.
 It's hard to imagine that it will be even better when driven balanced with a GS-XMkII ....waiting..... waiting ..... waiting.


----------



## Spakka

icebear said:


> Indeed great review, sums it up pretty accurately.
> I have the exact same impressions although I can comment on the amp part.
> Currently I have hooked the HD800 directly to my e20 DAC.
> It's hard to imagine that it will be even better when driven balanced with a GS-XMkII ....waiting..... waiting ..... waiting.


 
  
  
 They certainly are a pair of phones that keep surprising with each upgrade. I am finding I don't want to upgrade, but I also want to see how far I can push them, as the saying goes 'welcome to head-fi, sorry for your wallet'.


----------



## TwoEars

Thanks for the kind words, glad you liked the review.


----------



## Sorrodje

icebear said:


> Indeed great review, sums it up pretty accurately.
> I have the exact same impressions although I can comment on the amp part.
> Currently I have hooked the HD800 directly to my e20 DAC.
> It's hard to imagine that it will be even better when driven balanced with a GS-XMkII ....waiting..... waiting ..... waiting.


 
  
 I really think that the good combo can be found with amp or dac or dac+ amp.. There're many possible way to find the good combination. The point is that finding the good combo needs time and money.  Too many owners didn't take enough time with their HD800.
  
 HD800 is for persevering people.


----------



## Rayzilla

sorrodje said:


> Great review. I fully agree with you and my experience with HD800 is exactly the same.







bobjs said:


> Spot- on!



This has been my thoughts and experience in the short time that I have had them. I was deciding between these and the two Fostex TH models. While the Fostex sounded sweet at the time, I thought in the back of my mind at the time that the HD800 had so much more potential with the right tweaking. So much more I want to say but I have a hockey game to attend to. More to say later but I am extremely happy with my decision and privileged to be a part of this group. I hope to learn so much more from you guys. Especially on what tubes I could roll with my dac and amp to get the most out of my HD800.


----------



## Dillan

That was a good review!

  
 I for one think the 800's picky, sensitive ways as to whats in the chain is great!
  
 It brings me to the edge of my seat when I upgrade or swap out this or that. 
  
 You never know how it will agree or disagree to what you've done and I think that is pretty neat.


----------



## eantala

twoears said:


> One more review in case anyone's interested:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-hd-800-headphones/reviews/10337


 
 terrific review.  mirrors my sentiments exactly.
 Im so glad I got the hd800 it really is growing on me.  
 I was 99% of the way there to ordering a HE6/EF6 combo during Black Friday, I think I would of been happy with that too but really like the comfort of these versus the orthos.
 I'm finding it harder to listen to my other headphones now.  I think the hd800 might be the one phone to rule them all!  I might start culling some of my other headphones.
  
 the thing Im researching is getting rid of any desktop amps and dacs and going all portable where its just a usb dac/amp and laptop, I been using the dragonfly dac more often then desktop rig.  anyone know of anything usb dac/amp that is up to snuff or is this still dreaming?


----------



## TwoEars

eantala said:


> terrific review.  mirrors my sentiments exactly.
> Im so glad I got the hd800 it really is growing on me.
> I was 99% of the way there to ordering a HE6/EF6 combo during Black Friday, I think I would of been happy with that too but really like the comfort of these versus the orthos.
> I'm finding it harder to listen to my other headphones now.  I think the hd800 might be the one phone to rule them all!  I might start culling some of my other headphones.
> ...


 
  
 This here could be interesting if you want to keep it compact and as one single integrated USB/DAC/AMP combo:
  
 http://www.ultrahighendreview.com/meridian-explorer-usb-dac/


----------



## icebear

spakka said:


> They certainly are a pair of phones that keep surprising with each upgrade. I am finding I don't want to upgrade, but I also want to see how far I can push them, as the saying goes 'welcome to head-fi, *sorry for your wallet*'.


 
 ... I wasn't aware of that second part of the greeting and when I realized this, it was already too late ))).
 But I don't really mind too much, it's for the greater good of HiFi !


----------



## PTom

Could anyone give me more information on the extended warranty (10 years!?!)? Is this only available if purchased from specific dealers? How is it different from the standard 2 year warranty (except duration 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)?


----------



## SP Wild

macedonianhero said:


> It certainly doesn't sound faster to me. There is more bloom across the frequency band with the T1s. The HD800s/SR-009s are the quickest two headphones I've heard/owned. Just for the record, I owned my T1s for about 2.5 years (owned the first pair sold here in Canada in Jan. 2010) and really enjoyed them (amps included: MAD Ear+HD, Concerto, GS-1, GS-X, Liquid Fire, WA2, WA22 and GS-X Mk2). And on all these amps (and DACs that have come and gone), the HD800s were the quicker of the two (by a reasonable margin).
> 
> As mentioned, the objective waterfall measurements also show the HD800s as "quicker" (and in-line with my experiences). What front end rig are you using?


 

  There is for all intent and purpose, very little difference in transient attack capabilities between these two...I'll even throw my D7000s in the mix.  The broadband bloom in the T1 comes from the cups...the T1 as well as my D7000s are not true open cans and will always have a cup coloration.  The T1 coloration, for me is very acceptable and adds to its good tone - I can imagine the T1 bloom might interfere with some individuals own ear resonance and might be problematic.  For me, it is less problematic than the HD800s white hot treble "bloom".
  
 I am certain many people interpret these same "blooms" as part of the soundstage...I just hear some kind of bloom.  Remember the K701 has a narrow band bloom in the upper mids of much higher intensity than than the T1's broadband less intense bloom - this is why some can relate the K701 to the T1s.


----------



## icebear

ptom said:


> Could anyone give me more information on the extended warranty (10 years!?!)? Is this only available if purchased from specific dealers? How is it different from the standard 2 year warranty (except duration
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 10 year extended warranty - what are you talking about ?
 But if you do find out, please post here, I'm sure everyone will be interested ....


----------



## PTom

icebear said:


> 10 year extended warranty - what are you talking about ?
> But if you do find out, please post here, I'm sure everyone will be interested ....


 
 Apparently if you register your HD800 at: http://en-uk.sennheiser.com/club-orpheus-registration and bought the HD800 from an authorised UK dealer, Sennheiser sends you an email saying that you have a 10 year extended warranty.
  
 Some UK dealers also mention a 10 year extended warranty:
  
 - http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/sennheiser-hd800-open-back-headphones-hd-800-audiophile-prodid-4538.html
   [also mentioned in this post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/654416/sennheiser-hd800-new-product-announcement#post_9235760 ]
  
 - http://www.audiovenue-shop.co.uk/details.asp?id=465&type=Products
  
 Anyone else heard anything about this?


----------



## PTom

Sounds pretty cool!


----------



## icebear

10 year warranty is pretty cool and it doesn't mention additional cost. Correct ?
 Lucky UK customers !
  
 In the US you can extend the standard 2 year warranty
 +1 year (total 3 years) at $243.99
 +3 years (total 5 years) at $349.99
 If you are a warranty junkie, then the +3 years seems to be a better deal. I did not choose any extension.
  
 But for me the 10 year UK warranty indicates that Sennheiser is pretty confident about their manufacturing standards.


----------



## PTom

icebear said:


> *10 year warranty is pretty cool and it doesn't mention additional cost.* *Correct ?*
> Lucky UK customers !
> 
> In the US you can extend the standard 2 year warranty
> ...


 
 From what I can tell the catch is that you have to buy from an authorised UK dealer and they normally sell at close to retail i.e. £1000 or $1650.
  
 You can find the HD800 for a much better price on Amazon (in continental Europe at least) i.e. somewhere between 900-1000 EUR or £740 to £820 and as far as I can tell these don't qualify for the 10 year warranty. 
  
 Also I'm not sure if the 10 year warranty is transferrable (I read the standard 2 year warranty is transferrable though).


----------



## 62ohm

Was doing a random reading, and something really catches my attention. A paragraph from 6moons' review of HD800 states _"Sennheiser then issues a very real warning: Due to uncommonly low distortion from these headphones, you're liable to listen far louder than usual. It's very true. If you treasure your hearing and mean to avoid fatigue, don't."_
  
Guess I'd have to start looking after how loud my music really is.


----------



## BournePerfect

I listen at fairly low volumes with the HD800-it's far better for this than perhaps any other headphone I've heard actually-another reason I favor it. I could even claim it's the low-distortion that allows this.  Just the opposite from the T1 and LCD 2.2s imo where the Beyer doesn't come into it's own until it gets fairly loud imo, and the LCDs simply don't have the dynamics which lends to cranking those too. YMMV.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## SP Wild

I gave the HD800s the most chances of any headphone,  I even knew to keep the volumes very, very low...But alas, they were not for me - even at the lowest of volumes, after extended listening - they were somewhat sickening to me - that treble that is. 
  
 I don't know who generated the myth that Audeze is not good at low volume or that they are lacking in dynamics, yeah - but lots of rubbish floating around at head-fi at the moment.


----------



## Maxvla

sp wild said:


> I gave the HD800s the most chances of any headphone,  I even knew to keep the volumes very, very low...But alas, they were not for me - even at the lowest of volumes, after extended listening - they were somewhat sickening to me - that treble that is.
> 
> I don't know who generated the myth that Audeze is not good at low volume or that they are lacking in dynamics, yeah -* but lots of rubbish floating around at head-fi at the moment*.




+1


----------



## Dubstep Girl

sp wild said:


> I gave the HD800s the most chances of any headphone,  I even knew to keep the volumes very, very low...But alas, they were not for me - even at the lowest of volumes, after extended listening - they were somewhat sickening to me - that treble that is.
> 
> I don't know who generated the myth that Audeze is not good at low volume or that they are lacking in dynamics, yeah - but lots of rubbish floating around at head-fi at the moment.


 
  
  
 i agree. 
  
 but i think planars do sound better louder. and i never listen to headphones with volume low. they dont sound as good to me.


----------



## willjbryan

I almost returned my HD800s over that sickening effect of extended exposure to its treble, but EQing the 6khz-10khz band down 3-6 decibels (which brings it much closer to the HD600 curve) solves the problem for me.  Without the EQ fix, I would much rather listen to my PX-100s.  In the HD800's default presentation, it's like a supermodel in a fat suit.  I think the characterization of the HD800 as an unforgiving microscope into the true nature of its source assumes that the soundstage/instrumentation advantages of the ring driver go hand in hand with the hyped treble, but they certainly don't have to.


----------



## koiloco

I must be in the minority cuz I don't find the HD800 treble bothersome at all.


----------



## 62ohm

koiloco said:


> I must be in the minority cuz I don't find the HD800 treble bothersome at all.


 
  
 Same here. There are some recordings that I find the HD800's treble too piercing, but for more than 90% of the time I don't have any trouble with HD800's treble.


----------



## koiloco

62ohm said:


> Same here. There are some recordings that I find the HD800's treble too piercing, but for more than 90% of the time I don't have any trouble with HD800's treble.


 
 +1
  
 I was getting the parts ready to do the mod too but didn't find that it was needed.  Maybe, i will try the mod later and see if it would be an improvement.


----------



## drez

I think youncan get used to the treble but it is still more than neutral with most recordings. I prefer the frequency balance of the Anax mod (original version) but I find the sound a little veiled and muddled relative to what I am used to, which is the version 2 mod.

You can definately get used to the amount of treble, and with good equipment, and the mods I use its definitely not bothersome, but it holds the headphone back from being totally transparent and neutral.


----------



## SP Wild

willjbryan said:


> I almost returned my HD800s over that sickening effect of extended exposure to its treble, but EQing the 6khz-10khz band down 3-6 decibels (which brings it much closer to the HD600 curve) solves the problem for me.  Without the EQ fix, I would much rather listen to my PX-100s.  In the HD800's default presentation, it's like a supermodel in a fat suit.  I think the characterization of the HD800 as an unforgiving microscope into the true nature of its source assumes that the soundstage/instrumentation advantages of the ring driver go hand in hand with the hyped treble, but they certainly don't have to.


 

  Yeah, I play with EQ a lot.  That is how I confirm how a particular headphones technical capabilities.  Other than the HD800 treble peak (which people mod to improve) it is undeniably amongst the top heap in headphones period - if the treble is a non issue for some, that is great news.  Otherwise an EQ would be the only other acceptable way to neutralise that treble.
  
 As standard though, there is no evidence to suggest that the HD800 is free from coloration.


----------



## LugBug1

bourneperfect said:


> I listen at fairly low volumes with the HD800-it's far better for this than perhaps any other headphone I've heard actually-another reason I favor it. I could even claim it's the low-distortion that allows this.  Just the opposite from the T1 and LCD 2.2s imo where the Beyer doesn't come into it's own until it gets fairly loud imo, and the LCDs simply don't have the dynamics which lends to cranking those too. YMMV.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 Me too. The only time I find them fatiguing is when they are cranked up. It's easy to get addicted to higher volume with these because you know what they are capable of. But restraint is the key ha! 
  
 LCD's simply don't have the dynamics compared to the Senn's. All planars don't  
  


sp wild said:


> I gave the HD800s the most chances of any headphone,  I even knew to keep the volumes very, very low...But alas, they were not for me - even at the lowest of volumes, after extended listening - they were somewhat sickening to me - that treble that is.
> 
> I don't know who generated the myth that Audeze is not good at low volume or that they are lacking in dynamics, yeah - but lots of rubbish floating around at head-fi at the moment.


 
 I found the LCD2 great at low volume. The bass impact stayed the same at low or high volume.
  


sp wild said:


> Yeah, I play with EQ a lot.  That is how I confirm how a particular headphones technical capabilities.  Other than the HD800 treble peak (which people mod to improve) it is undeniably amongst the top heap in headphones period - if the treble is a non issue for some, that is great news.  Otherwise an EQ would be the only other acceptable way to neutralise that treble.
> 
> *As standard though, there is no evidence to suggest that the HD800 is free from coloration*.


 
 Absolutely. They are coloured and that is plain to hear and see with graphs etc. However, a headphone can be coloured but still very transparent imo. After all, there is no such thing as an uncoloured hp or speaker for that matter. Without getting into science territory - its a fine line of both subjective hearing and supposed objective measurements to state that a headphone leans towards neutrality. I hear colour at both ends of the spectrum with the HD800, more so at the top though and the measurements back this up. But I would also say that it is coloured to please the ears. As opposed to lay bare music for mixing. I use EQ on other headphones (AKG, Grado) but I've never needed to with the HD800. I've always found them more musical rather than analytical, despite their revealing nature. I do use warmer amps though as the transparent nature of this beast can make or break em.


----------



## TwoEars

willjbryan said:


> I almost returned my HD800s over that sickening effect of extended exposure to its treble, but EQing the 6khz-10khz band down 3-6 decibels (which brings it much closer to the HD600 curve) solves the problem for me.  Without the EQ fix, I would much rather listen to my PX-100s.  In the HD800's default presentation, it's like a supermodel in a fat suit.  I think the characterization of the HD800 as an unforgiving microscope into the true nature of its source assumes that the soundstage/instrumentation advantages of the ring driver go hand in hand with the hyped treble, but they certainly don't have to.


 

 I agree, don't be afraid to EQ your HD800's.
  
 I think many people spend thousands of dollars on cables and amps to get the sound they want when all that's really needed is a gentle nudge with an EQ.
  
 You can have a lot of fun with it too, give it a +3-5 dB bass boost and this is a bass-heads dream! Those big membranes really come alive and listening to massive attack or magnetic man becomes a head-shaking experience.
  
 Headphones that are normally considered bass-head headphones (Sony XB1000, Ultrasone Pro900) got nothing on the HD800 with a +3-5dB bass boost. It is TIGHT and it is DEEP.
  
 Just for the record - I'm not really bass-head, I like neutral. But it can be done, and it's fun to play with.


----------



## punit

twoears said:


> I agree, don't be afraid to EQ your HD800's.


 
 +1 . I extract the best Sonic experience from all my HP's by applying a little EQ , when the situation demands it.


----------



## TheDuke990

twoears said:


> I agree, don't be afraid to EQ your HD800's.


 
  
 +1
 2 or 3db deep bass boost and the HD800 will give you the best music experience you can get out of a headphone


----------



## preproman

koiloco said:


> +1
> 
> I was getting the parts ready to do the mod too but didn't find that it was needed.  Maybe, i will try the mod later and see if it would be an improvement.


 
  
 Not needed for me.  I tried two different HD800s that had that Anax mod on them.  Both did not sound like the HD800s I know.  However, on my pair I did get them hardwired with a SAA Endorphin Cable.  This the only mod I'm doing.  Sound more refined than the stock pair but keeps what the HD800s are know for..


----------



## eantala

theduke990 said:


> +1
> 2 or 3db deep bass boost and the HD800 will give you the best music experience you can get out of a headphone


 
  
 Can you guys recommend me any nice EQ software you use or are you just using default one in your player (ie the one in Foobar, etc)


----------



## WNBC

There is some recent talk of coloration.  I would say the HD800 is the least colored headphone I've come across.  Have you come across less colored headphones?  Stax?  AKG?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i would agree the HD 800 is one of the least colored headphones i've heard. but largely amp/source dependent.


----------



## TwoEars

dubstep girl said:


> i would agree the HD 800 is one of the least colored headphones i've heard. but largely amp/source dependent.


 
  


wnbc said:


> There is some recent talk of coloration.  I would say the HD800 is the least colored headphone I've come across.  Have you come across less colored headphones?  Stax?  AKG?


 
  
 I agree, In my review I even called the HD800 "perhaps the world's most transparent headphone". At least I've never heard one that has less coloration.
  
 The only one I can imagine which would compete is the Stax... but I haven't head that one. It's a bit on the pricy side...


----------



## Frank I

The hD800 is a fantastic headphone and if you call transparency colored well then its colored big time. LOL I think it is  a headphone that let you hear everything in the recording accurately.  It my go to headphone for reviews becauseIcan easily hear every change I make in the chain.


----------



## icebear

frank i said:


> The hD800 is a fantastic headphone and if you call transparency colored well then its colored big time. LOL I think it is  a headphone that let you hear everything in the recording accurately.  It my go to headphone for reviews becauseIcan easily hear every change I make in the chain.


 

*+1*
 If people are hearing "coloration" with the HD800 -whatever their interpretation of this maybe - it's the source, the DAC, the amp and all the voodoo cables in between but it's highly unlikely the headphone. Same with the "piercing treble". A recording mixed to sound good on average loudspeakers can sound pretty harsh on something that is revealing as the HD800. How's that old saying "Brown stuff in, brown stuff out" ?  ))).


----------



## LugBug1

But they do have an emphasized treble (defo not piercing though!) and that's a colouration. I've never found it bothersome at all but I can still hear it. And I'm not going to pretend that its not there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Amps/source will always be a factor with colouration and some amps will mask the peaks. But the ones that do mask it are the more coloured ones.  
  
 Anyways, who wants a world without colour!


----------



## icebear

Whenever I have a chance to visit live concerts I do so. Preferably acoustic Jazz in smaller clubs.  As I also like to photograph when allowed w/o flash, I squeeze in the front row. So piano and drum kit with cymbals are something that I hear live and close up on a regular basis. And also acoustic double bass for that matter.
  
 I for sure don't have absolute hearing, nor am I a musician but for me hard hit cymbals either with a wooden drum stick (e.g. Vic Firth) or a metal brush, do have a some "natural" aggressiveness to them. For me the HD800 is able to reproduce this quite realistically and I do not feel that there is anything wrong with the presentation. For me it is as close to the original sound as possible.
 Especially the reverb of the edge that slows down in a characteristic way is pretty difficult and things can get mushy very easily, not so with the HD800. I like it a lot but that just my personal impression which obviously differs from a lot of people ).
  
  
 ... and of course no one wants a world w/o color ( I shoot black & white though ) but it needs to be just the same color, that's the point .


----------



## SP Wild

I thought the HD650 captured drum kit hi hats and cymbals in the correct amplitude - although definition is somewhat poor compared to the HD800.


----------



## pdrm360

eantala said:


> Can you guys recommend me any nice EQ software you use or are you just using default one in your player (ie the one in Foobar, etc)


 
  
 IMO, the HD800s don't need EQ and they good as they are.


----------



## James-uk

icebear said:


> Whenever I have a chance to visit live concerts I do so. Preferably acoustic Jazz in smaller clubs.  As I also like to photograph when allowed w/o flash, I squeeze in the front row. So piano and drum kit with cymbals are something that I hear live and close up on a regular basis. And also acoustic double bass for that matter.
> 
> I for sure don't have absolute hearing, nor am I a musician but for me hard hit cymbals either with a wooden drum stick (e.g. Vic Firth) or a metal brush, do have a some "natural" aggressiveness to them. For me the HD800 is able to reproduce this quite realistically and I do not feel that there is anything wrong with the presentation. For me it is as close to the original sound as possible.
> Especially the reverb of the edge that slows down in a characteristic way is pretty difficult and things can get mushy very easily, not so with the HD800. I like it a lot but that just my personal impression which obviously differs from a lot of people ).
> ...


This is very similar to my experiences with live music , I find drums to be particularly unpleasant if I'm not in the mood. In fact sometimes hi hats and cymbals are just too much and kinda make me blink! The HD800s never do that but I still only listen to them when I really want to get into the music and appreciate every detail. For casual listening I always reach for the 650s.


----------



## James-uk

Maybe it comes down to the way we listen at home, in our comfy chairs , in a quiet room with headphones on. It's not very natural to suddenly have a live band playing all around you in this place. When you are out with friends in a noisy social atmosphere your mind set is far different and more willing to accept the music in its purest , rawest form.


----------



## Frank I

icebear said:


> *+1*
> If people are hearing "coloration" with the HD800 -whatever their interpretation of this maybe - it's the source, the DAC, the amp and all the voodoo cables in between but it's highly unlikely the headphone. Same with the "piercing treble". A recording mixed to sound good on average loudspeakers can sound pretty harsh on something that is revealing as the HD800. How's that old saying "Brown stuff in, brown stuff out" ?  ))).


 
 Exactly. The HD800 let you hear differences in equipment clearly. Cable changes are noticeable as well as the source and amplifiers playing the music back.


----------



## NZtechfreak

frank i said:


> Exactly. The HD800 let you hear differences in equipment clearly. Cable changes are noticeable as well as the source and amplifiers playing the music back.




Agree. This is something I've seen stated a lot, but it wasn't until I got the HE-6 (again) recently and the HD800 that I really understood this. It's difficult to appreciate this on headphones without this degree if transparency and resolution.


----------



## willjbryan

I disagree with the view that the shrill treble on the HD800s is a product of the recordings that are fed into it, for two reasons.

First, my speakers have a flat frequency response curve. When I listen to most recordings on them, it sounds like live music. Less so the HD800, unless I EQ it to reduce the treble.

Second, if you compare the frequency response curve for the HD600 vs the HD800, you'll see that the latter is much louder through the mid-treble frequencies. My experience with the HD600, as well as every review of it I've read, is that it's extremely neutral, albeit somewhat lacking in speed and detail. I have a hard time believing that the HD800 is curing a defect of the HD600 in this respect. In any case, my ears side with the HD600 response, and even more with the HD800 tuned to match its predecessor.


----------



## punit

dubstep girl said:


> Yes!! And wait till u get GEC 6AS7G


 
 Based on your multiple recommendations for GEC 6AS7G with WA2 & HD 800, I bought one (for my Bttlhd Crack). Wow, Wow, Wow......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks.


----------



## koiloco

To all fellow HD800 owners, I have a confession to make.  My component chain is the same but whatever has happened within the last 4 days, the low end on my HD800 has gone up a notch.  I don't personally believe in break in but at this point, I am becoming more and more hesitant to say that the HD800 doesn't kick as hard as my HE500 in the lows.


----------



## James-uk

koiloco said:


> To all fellow HD800 owners, I have a confession to make.  My component chain is the same but whatever has happened within the last 4 days, the low end on my HD800 has gone up a notch.  I don't personally believe in break in but at this point, I am becoming more and more hesitant to say that the HD800 doesn't kick as hard as my HE500 in the lows.



Sounds like brain burn in to me. It goes both Ways though. I go through phases with the 800s , sometimes I find them to have perfect bass, sometimes too little and sometimes they seem a little muddy down low. Depends what mood I'm in or what I've been doing leading up to having a listen. It's not so bad on other headphones or speakers, their colour always comes through because it's more pronounced.


----------



## koiloco

james-uk said:


> Sounds like brain burn in to me. It goes both Ways though. I go through phases with the 800s , sometimes I find them to have perfect bass, sometimes too little and sometimes they seem a little muddy down low. Depends what mood I'm in or what I've been doing leading up to having a listen. It's not so bad on other headphones or speakers, their colour always comes through because it's more pronounced.


 

 Not sure what it is but 3 nites ago, i started listening to my favorite albums on the HD800 and instantly recognized the change in the lows.  Immediately, I switched over to HE500/Emo to compare and did confirm the clear increase of bass on the HD800/WA22.  Whatever happened!  I like it.


----------



## pdrm360

koiloco said:


> Not sure what it is but 3 nites ago, i started listening to my favorite albums on the HD800 and instantly recognized the change in the lows.  Immediately, I switched over to HE500/Emo to compare and did confirm the clear increase of bass on the HD800/WA22.  Whatever happened!  I like it.


 
 I believe in you!


----------



## palmfish

willjbryan said:


> I disagree with the view that the shrill treble on the HD800s is a product of the recordings that are fed into it, for two reasons.
> 
> First, my speakers have a flat frequency response curve. When I listen to most recordings on them, it sounds like live music. Less so the HD800, unless I EQ it to reduce the treble.
> 
> Second, if you compare the frequency response curve for the HD600 vs the HD800, you'll see that the latter is much louder through the mid-treble frequencies. My experience with the HD600, as well as every review of it I've read, is that it's extremely neutral, albeit somewhat lacking in speed and detail. I have a hard time believing that the HD800 is curing a defect of the HD600 in this respect. In any case, my ears side with the HD600 response, and even more with the HD800 tuned to match its predecessor.


 
  
 With regard to your speakers, how do you know they are "flat?" Where are they flat - measured at one foot? 3 feet? listening position? anechoic room?
  
 With regard to the HD 600, neutral sounding is not necessarily the same as flat. Ears are shaped differently, different listening volume results in different perceived frequency response - it's all very subjective.


----------



## jsgraha

james-uk said:


> ... sometimes I find them to have perfect bass, sometimes too little and sometimes they seem a little muddy down low...


 
 I experience these as well. In my situation at home, my conclusion, that my setup for hd800 was power dependent. Usually, my best time to listen were early in the morning or late at night. Also, my biggest complaint in regard to the setup was that it was sensitive with wall-warts (phone charger etc). That's one of the reason I still have th900 to cover those times.


----------



## WNBC

Same thing happened to me a couple nights ago.  Probably brain in but I'm definitely in a honeymoon phase with the HD800.  New tubes, new cables so who knows what is going on.  Enjoying them much more than in the beginning, which was about a month ago but realistically I've been listening only for half that time.  
  
  
 Quote:


koiloco said:


> Not sure what it is but 3 nites ago, i started listening to my favorite albums on the HD800 and instantly recognized the change in the lows.  Immediately, I switched over to HE500/Emo to compare and did confirm the clear increase of bass on the HD800/WA22.  Whatever happened!  I like it.


----------



## James-uk

jsgraha said:


> I experience these as well. In my situation at home, my conclusion, that my setup for hd800 was power dependent. Usually, my best time to listen were early in the morning or late at night. Also, my biggest complaint in regard to the setup was that it was sensitive with wall-warts (phone charger etc). That's one of the reason I still have th900 to cover those times.



Are you pulling my leg?


----------



## WNBC

I'm guessing the TH-900 is part of a portable rig that is off the grid.
  
 Quote:


james-uk said:


> Are you pulling my leg?


----------



## James-uk

This^


----------



## jsgraha

james-uk said:


> Are you pulling my leg?


 
  
 Actually, I'm sharing your experience. 
 In my case, that's the conclusion about what happen on my setup.
 I can't really enjoy listening to hd800 if someone was charging a phone nearby, or if my washer was running or my wife was using her elliptical.
 Sometime, even when none of those happen, I still can't enjoy listening to hd800.
 And then suddenly after 9pm, everything was good 
  
 Th900 is useful during those time.


----------



## pdrm360

jsgraha said:


> Actually, I'm sharing your experience.
> In my case, that's the conclusion about what happen on my setup.
> I can't really enjoy listening to hd800 if someone was charging a phone nearby, or if my washer was running or my wife was using her elliptical.
> Th900 is useful during those time.


 
  
 The IEMs are even better during those time.


----------



## MacedonianHero

palmfish said:


> With regard to your speakers, how do you know they are "flat?" Where are they flat - measured at one foot? 3 feet? listening position? anechoic room?
> 
> With regard to the HD 600, neutral sounding is not necessarily the same as flat. Ears are shaped differently, different listening volume results in different perceived frequency response - it's all very subjective.


 
 Exactly. That's the rub with speakers...they may measure dead flat in an anechoic room, but in a living room, they can change quite a bit depending on the room's acoustics.


----------



## Sonido

koiloco said:


> Not sure what it is but 3 nites ago, i started listening to my favorite albums on the HD800 and instantly recognized the change in the lows.  Immediately, I switched over to HE500/Emo to compare and did confirm the clear increase of bass on the HD800/WA22.  Whatever happened!  I like it.


 
 A man's heart can truly only have one. It seems your days with Miss HE-500 are coming to an end. It's best to let go and let someone else enjoy her.


----------



## koiloco

sonido said:


> A man's heart can truly only have one. It seems your days with Miss HE-500 are coming to an end. It's best to let go and let someone else enjoy her.


 
  
 Nope, not going to happen.  HE500 is not going anywhere.


----------



## Maxvla

Right...


----------



## koiloco

maxvla said:


> Right...


----------



## Sonido

koiloco said:


>


 

 Don't deny it. You're at the point in the relationship where you know deep down it's not going to work out in the end, but out of loyalty, principle, and perhaps pride, you're simply trying to rationalize why you should keep it. The best thing to do is let go now and live your life with nothing to hold you back and with your true soul mate, the HD800. I'm sure someone else will treat your HE-500 better, with the neglect that will follow soon enough.


----------



## willjbryan

palmfish said:


> With regard to your speakers, how do you know they are "flat?" Where are they flat - measured at one foot? 3 feet? listening position? anechoic room?
> 
> With regard to the HD 600, neutral sounding is not necessarily the same as flat. Ears are shaped differently, different listening volume results in different perceived frequency response - it's all very subjective.


 
 They are flat when measured at 6.5 feet in an anechoic chamber.  Obviously I don't live in an anechoic chamber, but I've listened to the speakers in well-treated rooms and the sound is pretty similar from one room to another - no differences stand out like the treble spike in an un-EQed HD800.
  
 As to subjectivity, I just pulled up a frequency response curve on headphone.com for the HD 800, the HE-500, the LCD-3 and the HD600.  The HD800 measures significantly louder than all the others in the 6-10 khz range.  I suppose it's possible that my ears are idiosyncratic, or that some aspect of the HD800's geometry and driver placement means that the average listener doesn't perceive that spike, or that the HD800 just has the must accurate portrayal of sound in that range and everyone else messed it up.  I don't find any of these explanations convincing, however, and my experience of the other headphones is that they sound more accurate in that range.  There's no Analixus mod for the LCD-3, after all.
  
 I think the simplest explanation for the "sonic microscope" characterization of the HD800 is that (i) the soundstage/instrument separation from the ring driver and the driver speed make it easier to identify particular recording details and (ii) the hyped treble makes those details stand out even more.  It's easy to view (i) and (ii) as intertwined aspects of the HD800's character, but I view (i) as a virtue and (ii) as a flaw, judged solely from the perspective of accurate sound reproduction.  Fortunately for me, (ii) is easy to fix.


----------



## Maxvla

willjbryan said:


> There's no Analixus mod for the LCD-3, after all.



Correct, just the toilet paper mod for those. :rolleyes:


----------



## koiloco

sonido said:


> Don't deny it. You're at the point in the relationship where you know deep down it's not going to work out in the end, but out of loyalty, principle, and perhaps pride, you're simply trying to rationalize why you should keep it. The best thing to do is let go now and live your life with nothing to hold you back and with your true soul mate, the HD800. I'm sure someone else will treat your HE-500 better, with the neglect that will follow soon enough.


 
 damn, you should be a shrink.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but no seriously, I can still handle multiple her just fine at this point.  I am notorious when it comes to selling stuff I know I won't use no more.


----------



## pdrm360

koiloco said:


> damn, you should be a shrink.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sell the HE-500 and make some room for the HE-560.


----------



## koiloco

pdrm360 said:


> Sell the HE-500 and make some room for the HE-560.


 
 If the HE560 proves to be better to my ears then I will be the first in line to upgrade.  In the mean time, turntable is coming tmr.  This will be a fun weekend.  3rd time is a charm, I hope.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

punit said:


> Based on your multiple recommendations for GEC 6AS7G with WA2 & HD 800, I bought one (for my Bttlhd Crack). Wow, Wow, Wow......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## TwoEars

I really liked the sound of the HE-500's. It's fat, meaty and atmospheric.
  
 But I didn't like overall build quality of the HE-500's. They felt like something made in a small shop and like if they would break if I accidentally dropped them.
  
 However - what really killed the HE-500 for me was the weight and comfort, the HD800's disappear on my head where as the HE-500 became painful to wear after an hour or so.
  
 If they could make a HE500 that's as comfortable to wear as the HD800 (or at least the LCD2/3) I might be tempted to try them again.
  
 Perhaps it's an individual thing but I even tried a padded headband and I could never get the HE-500 to be comfortable for me.
  
 I do think that the HD800 is in another league compared to the HE500, but the sound quality of the HE500 is very, very good for it's price range.


----------



## James-uk

willjbryan said:


> They are flat when measured at 6.5 feet in an anechoic chamber.  Obviously I don't live in an anechoic chamber, but I've listened to the speakers in well-treated rooms and the sound is pretty similar from one room to another - no differences stand out like the treble spike in an un-EQed HD800.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




According to measurements of flat speakers in a treated room the rise in db from 6-10 kHz is normal. See slide 29. 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16343460/Olive%20ALMA%202014%20Winter%20Symposium%20Headphone%20Talk%20copy.key.pdf


----------



## Spakka

ptom said:


> Apparently if you register your HD800 at: http://en-uk.sennheiser.com/club-orpheus-registration and bought the HD800 from an authorised UK dealer, Sennheiser sends you an email saying that you have a 10 year extended warranty.
> 
> Some UK dealers also mention a 10 year extended warranty:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hmm, I purchased mine from an authorised UK dealer last year (January), and the warranty in the Sennheiser confirmation email is only for 2 years.  Maybe this is a new thing. 
  
 P.s. Authorised dealers here only advertise for the MSRP, however if you call them up they will usually knock off ~£100, maybe more.


----------



## PTom

Did you register for the club orpheus program?
  
 On Amazon I think Spain and Italy, the HD 800 was hovering under 900 EUR at some point last year. According to camelcamelcamel.com in Amazon Spain it got as low as 821 EUR! It'd probably be better to buy when the prices go back to this range on Amazon even at the expense of a possible 10 year warranty.
  
 The UK authorised dealer price is still way too high IMO even at £900. It's going for around 999 EUR at the moment on Amazon Spain and Italy which is around £820 so....


----------



## Rayzilla

spakka said:


> They certainly are a pair of phones that keep surprising with each upgrade. I am finding I don't want to upgrade, but I also want to see how far I can push them, as the saying goes 'welcome to head-fi, sorry for your wallet'.


 
 I don't want to for the sake of my wallet too but I also understand what you say about the 'pushing them' comment.
  


dillan said:


> ...
> 
> I for one think the 800's picky, sensitive ways as to whats in the chain is great!
> 
> ...


 
 I get excited thinking about what sound will come out with any changes in equipment and things.
  
  
  
 Hopefully you guys that know about tubes for the HD800 can help me out with some inexpensive recommendations for my Line Magnetic DAC and amp. I didn't want to derail this thread so I started one here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/703292/tube-advice-needed-for-my-dac-and-my-amp-for-hd800#post_10222715
  
 Thanks!


----------



## nigeljames

Just re-registered my pair bought 11/02/13 via club Orpheus, and now I have a 10 years warranty confirmed via e-mail  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 e-mail:
  
  Dear N*************
  
 Congratulations on your recent Club Orpheus product purchase!
 For over 70 years, Sennheiser has been focused on _The Pursuit of Perfect Sound_, which we are certain you will enjoy for many years to come from your chosen product.
 Please accept this e-mail as confirmation of your extended warranty registration, offered to you as a pledge of our complete confidence in your product.
 In the unlikely event that you experience any problems with your product during this time, please contact our service and support team who will be more than happy to help: Premium Product Support
 Your extended warranty period:
*10 Years*
  
*In the unlikely event of an issue with your product, to ensure smooth after care service, please retain your purchase receipt and a copy of this e-mail.*
 Are you interested in Sports, Music Production, Travel or even Gaming?...As a token of our appreciation, we would like to offer you an exclusive 15% off your next purchase on our Online Shop.
 Click here, select your product/s and enter coupon code at the checkout:
 Coupon code: *O********
 Thank you again for your custom and for joining us in _The Pursuit of Perfect Sound!_
 Sennheiser


----------



## pdrm360

nigeljames said:


> Just re-registered my pair bought 11/02/13 via club Orpheus, and now I have a 10 years warranty confirmed via e-mail
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're lucky. Here in the US we have to pay $250 for 3 years extended warranty.


----------



## hekeli

pdrm360 said:


> You're lucky. Here in the US we have to pay $250 for 3 years extended warranty.


 
  
 I'm sure it's the shop (or some insurance company) and not the manufacturer who is selling that "warranty". Big stores here also like to sell "extended warranties" for appliances etc, which is bonkers, atleast in the EU where we have consumer rights..
  
 I'm sure the replacement drivers or headbands etc will not even be $250, IF something should happen. Then again you can also stomp on your headphones "by accident" and claim it from your home insurance..


----------



## pdrm360

twoears said:


> I really liked the sound of the HE-500's. It's fat, meaty and atmospheric.
> 
> But I didn't like overall build quality of the HE-500's. They felt like something made in a small shop and like if they would break if I accidentally dropped them.
> 
> ...


 
  
*Only* the sound quality of the HE500 is good for it's price range, but the "sound quality + comfort" is a different story.


----------



## eantala

these hd800 are really growing on me I can't see myself buying another headphone right now. I been thinking of liquidating everything and getting the Stax 009 but just the thought of buy a special amp for it and I scratch the idea.  These things are a real joy and really growing on me at this 2nd week mark.  I think its a waste of time listing to the other headphones I have.
  
 also IME they aren't thin sounding at all as some have described, they have very high bass. They aren't ruthlessly unforgiving as some make them out to be I been using with a dragonlfy on my Sony Xperia Z tablet at home more than desktop gear and they still sound pretty damn good.  I think they got these types of reps because they scale so well that people go overboard in describing how they sound with lesser gear.
  
 I only wish they looked different , more sexy like the Audeze's.. but like many other things in life looks arern't everything its all about what they do when the lights go out


----------



## WNBC

Dragonfly is a nifty little DAC/amp so it doesn't surprise me that it is good with the HD-800.  I think the HD-800 is more "unforgiving" with poorly recorded music and not necessarily "unforgiving" with affordable pieces of equipment.  Or  the HD-800 may be less pleasing with the wrong amp + DAC combo but that is also true across all headphones.  One might say it is harder to pair the HD-800 with the right amp/DAC, but it is far from impossible to find the right combo especially with all of the advice from fellow head-fiers.  I would also say a high VBR MP3 will sound good as long as the original recording is well produced/mixed.  A bad DAC or amp will be bad across all headphones and not just the HD800.  You just might be able to spot the weak link in your chain more easily with the HD800.  
  
  
 Quote:


eantala said:


> They aren't ruthlessly unforgiving as some make them out to be I been using with a dragonlfy on my Sony Xperia Z tablet at home more than desktop gear and they still sound pretty damn good.  I think they got these types of reps because they scale so well that people go overboard in describing how they sound with lesser gear.


----------



## palmfish

^
Well said.


----------



## Spakka

hekeli said:


> Then again you can also stomp on your headphones "by accident" and claim it from your home insurance..


 
  
  
 I don't think fraud is the answer... 
  
 Meanwhile... Off to re-register my HD800s!


----------



## Amictus

HD800 s/n 25142 has arrived. Thank you, Jan Meier. And now to business...


----------



## James-uk

amictus said:


> HD800 s/n 25142 has arrived. Thank you, Jan Meier. And now to business...




Today is a good day for you. Enjoy


----------



## koiloco

This is a bundle of musical enjoyment for me.  TT just came today.  This is my 3rd round with vinyl!  I've missed it for a while now.


----------



## MIKELAP

koiloco said:


> I must be in the minority cuz I don't find the HD800 treble bothersome at all.


 
 Same here. but everybody ears differently


----------



## MickeyVee

Very, very nice!!  I grew up on vinyl and DJ'd in the 80's and 90's until my entire collection was stolen.  Long story. May get into vinyl again.
 Really debating a WA22 for my HD800 and possibly future purchases.. HiFiMAN HE560.  I could probably do a WA6 this year but it may be worth the wait for the WA22.
  
 Quote:


koiloco said:


> This is a bundle of musical enjoyment for me.  TT just came today.  This is my 3rd round with vinyl!  I've missed it for a while now.


----------



## longbowbbs

mickeyvee said:


> Very, very nice!!  I grew up on vinyl and DJ'd in the 80's and 90's until my entire collection was stolen.  Long story. May get into vinyl again.
> Really debating a WA22 for my HD800 and possibly future purchases.. HiFiMAN HE560.  I could probably do a WA6 this year but it may be worth the wait for the WA22.
> 
> Quote:
> ...


 
 I just jumped back into vinyl...VPI Scout 1.1 and a Dynavector 10X5....Nice to get back to it.


----------



## palmfish

Awesome!
  
 I remember when I bought my Denon turntable with a Dynavector 10X3 high output moving coil cartridge.


----------



## longbowbbs

palmfish said:


> Awesome!
> 
> I remember when I bought my Denon turntable with a Dynavector 10X3 high output moving coil cartridge.


 
 I had that combo! What was that around 1983? I had a Dynavector Ruby too....I am waiting on a new stand before unboxing...Probably next weekend to fire it up. I did get to watch it being set up and we played 1 song to test everything before loading it up for the 300 mile drive home.


----------



## elvergun

koiloco said:


> This is a bundle of musical enjoyment for me.  TT just came today.  This is my 3rd round with vinyl!  I've missed it for a while now.


 
  
 Nice setup!!!


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco said:


> This is a bundle of musical enjoyment for me.  TT just came today.  This is my 3rd round with vinyl!  I've missed it for a while now.


 
 What table and cartridge are they? The rack looks great!


----------



## thegrobe

koiloco said:


> This is a bundle of musical enjoyment for me.  TT just came today.  This is my 3rd round with vinyl!  I've missed it for a while now.


 
 Looks fantastic! Looks fun!


----------



## Toxic Cables

longbowbbs said:


> After a year my paint is undamaged, so I cannot say.


 
 Had mine over 2 years, paint still perfect.


----------



## longbowbbs

toxic cables said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > After a year my paint is undamaged, so I cannot say.
> ...


 
 Treat them right and they will last....Of course so great cables help too.


----------



## elvergun

toxic cables said:


> Had mine over 2 years, paint still perfect.


 

 Hmm...all the tales of chipped paint got me all paranoid.  I treat mine as if they were filled with nitroglycerin. 
  
 Perhaps Sennheiser  changed the manufacturing process and the paint is more durable now????


----------



## pdrm360

koiloco said:


> This is a bundle of musical enjoyment for me.  TT just came today.  This is my 3rd round with vinyl!  I've missed it for a while now.


 
 Nice!


----------



## Dillan

elvergun said:


> Hmm...all the tales of chipped paint got me all paranoid.  I treat mine as if they were filled with nitroglycerin.
> 
> Perhaps Sennheiser  changed the manufacturing process and the paint is more durable now????


 
  
 I treat mine really well too.
  
 The grey outer ring mesh is super delicate and easily shows any light scratches or fingerprints.. (too delicate to be exposed imo)
  
 Other than that, I cant see any wear and tear showing with careful use.


----------



## palmfish

longbowbbs said:


> I had that combo! What was that around 1983? I had a Dynavector Ruby too....I am waiting on a new stand before unboxing...Probably next weekend to fire it up. I did get to watch it being set up and we played 1 song to test everything before loading it up for the 300 mile drive home.




Yes, it was 1984. What torture it is to have to wait, huh?


----------



## longbowbbs

palmfish said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I had that combo! What was that around 1983? I had a Dynavector Ruby too....I am waiting on a new stand before unboxing...Probably next weekend to fire it up. I did get to watch it being set up and we played 1 song to test everything before loading it up for the 300 mile drive home.
> ...


 
 I put the box in the other room so I don't have to look at it....I can't wait to fire it up with the HD800's!


----------



## James-uk

If Sennheiser were to bring out a HD850 what would you want from it?


----------



## preproman

james-uk said:


> If Sennheiser were to bring out a HD850 what would you want from it?


 
  
  
 A Planar with imaging and the sound stage of the HD800s


----------



## James-uk

preproman said:


> A Planar with imaging and the sound stage of the HD800s



Interesting, what would the planar tech bring to the party? More authoritative bass?


----------



## preproman

A rich mid range..  IMO


----------



## James-uk

preproman said:


> A rich mid range..  IMO



I think that sometimes , but then the HD650 has that and I find it to 'forward' , so I don't know if it would work and allow the soundstage to remain intact?


----------



## kvtaco17

james-uk said:


> Interesting, what would the planar tech bring to the party? More authoritative bass?


 
  
 Some awesome liquid thickness only planars make!


----------



## kvtaco17

james-uk said:


> I think that sometimes , but then the HD650 has that and I find it to 'forward' , so I don't know if it would work and allow the soundstage to remain intact?


 
 I'm one of the few that hate the HD600/650  for a lot of things... I like the liquid mids but hate the polite treble... if they only had a little air and a bigger sound stage...


----------



## James-uk

kvtaco17 said:


> I'm one of the few that hate the HD600/650  for a lot of things... I like the liquid mids but hate the polite treble... if they only had a little air and a bigger sound stage...



So is it possible to get liquid mids with amazing soundstage? I think part of the HD800s 'illusion' is the slightly sucked out mids giving the sense of distance. If you make them more full/liquid suddenly the singer is closer and in your head?. It's a tough compromise!!! Or is it? Can it be done?


----------



## BournePerfect

Sucked out mids...? HD800...wut?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 -Daniel


----------



## kvtaco17

bourneperfect said:


> Sucked out mids...? HD800...wut??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I agree the HD800 has pretty nice mids... but then so do a lot of Grado's (sorry I know this won't fly here lol) BUT they also lack sound stage... the PS500 AND RS1 are of note in the mids department...
  
 My perfect headphone would be the love child of the PS500 and HD800... which doesn't exist... because they don't have reproductive organs...


----------



## James-uk

bourneperfect said:


> Sucked out mids...? HD800...wut??
> 
> Ok,wrong wording. I actually think the mids on the 800s are 'technically' near perfect. BUT, I feel some body and weight is maybe missing on a subjective level. I can't explain it and I think if it sounded any different it wouldn't preserve the soundstage. Maybe it's because the volume we listen at is decided by the FR. Maybe the other phones go louder in the mids compared to the rest of the range therefore adding more perceived body?


----------



## kvtaco17

james-uk said:


> bourneperfect said:
> 
> 
> > Sucked out mids...? HD800...wut??
> ...


 
 That I could agree with!


----------



## silversurfer616

kvtaco17 said:


> I agree the HD800 has pretty nice mids... but then so do a lot of Grado's (sorry I know this won't fly here lol) BUT they also lack sound stage... the PS500 AND RS1 are of note in the mids department...
> 
> My perfect headphone would be the love child of the PS500 and HD800... which doesn't exist... because they don't have reproductive organs...



We need a Frankenstein modder for this job!Any volunteers?


----------



## talisman42

kvtaco17 said:


> I agree the HD800 has pretty nice mids... but then so do a lot of Grado's (sorry I know this won't fly here lol) BUT they also lack sound stage... the PS500 AND RS1 are of note in the mids department...
> 
> My perfect headphone would be the love child of the PS500 and HD800... which doesn't exist... because they don't have reproductive organs...


 
  
 I'm pretty much in the same boat! I'm currently looking into amp options - any you suggest that will pair well with both Senn and Grado?


----------



## talisman42

james-uk said:


> If Sennheiser were to bring out a HD850 what would you want from it?


 

  
 Cash-back


----------



## 62ohm

talisman42 said:


> I'm pretty much in the same boat! I'm currently looking into amp options - any you suggest that will pair well with both Senn and Grado?


 
  
 I've heard the HD800 paired with Graham Slee Solo SRG-II with PSU1, and I think it sounds phenomenal for the price ($700 USD when tested). Sounds quite tube-like, very warm and smooth. It may sound overly warm though. Sadly in the end I went for the WA3 because aesthetically it looks better, and unfortunately things like that do get into my way LOL (plus I wanted to try tube rolling). 
  
 I'm quite sure the Graham Slee Solo Ultra Linear DE (talk about long name) would perform better with both Senn and Grado since I heard the UL version is basically an SRG-II with added treble, something the SRG-II can really use IMO. I've never heard any Grado paired with GSP amp, but many said they make for a very good pairing.


----------



## kvtaco17

silversurfer616 said:


> We need a Frankenstein modder for this job!Any volunteers?


 
  
 Indeed a skilled surgeon might be able to graft bits and pieces necessary for them to breed.


----------



## MickeyVee

Whoah.. nicely said.. owning both, I would definitely agree!
 Quote:


kvtaco17 said:


> My perfect headphone would be the love child of the PS500 and HD800... which doesn't exist...


----------



## talisman42

62ohm said:


> I've heard the HD800 paired with Graham Slee Solo SRG-II with PSU1, and I think it sounds phenomenal for the price ($700 USD when tested). Sounds quite tube-like, very warm and smooth. It may sound overly warm though. Sadly in the end I went for the WA3 because aesthetically it looks better, and unfortunately things like that do get into my way LOL (plus I wanted to try tube rolling).
> 
> I'm quite sure the Graham Slee Solo Ultra Linear DE (talk about long name) would perform better with both Senn and Grado since I heard the UL version is basically an SRG-II with added treble, something the SRG-II can really use IMO. I've never heard any Grado paired with GSP amp, but many said they make for a very good pairing.


 
  
 Very interesting. I have some research to do, but definitely on the right path based on the specs.  Yeah, I also value aesthetics. I also prefer something that doesn't accentuate the highs.Thanks very much for your recommendation.


----------



## preproman

james-uk said:


> I think that sometimes , but then the HD650 has that and I find it to 'forward' , so I don't know if it would work and allow the soundstage to remain intact?


 
 I didn't say a forward mid rage.  I said a rich mid range.  Well yeah - maybe a tad bit forward.  That would not hurt the sound stage one bit.


----------



## Viper2005

preproman said:


> I didn't say a forward mid rage.  I said a rich mid range.  Well yeah - maybe a tad bit forward.  That would not hurt the sound stage one bit.


 
 A Yulong DA8 with the Violectric V200 or Yulong A18 will do that for you in solid state, if you don't want to mess with tubes.  The A18 is more warmer and forward than the V200.


----------



## pdrm360

Has anyone compared the *WA2* to the *Crack* for the HD800?  Which one pairs better with the HD800?


----------



## Dillan

pdrm360 said:


> Has anyone compared the *WA2* to the *Crack* for the HD800?  Which one pairs better with the HD800?


 
  
 Interesting question.
  
 I love my WA2 and love the sounds different tubes give it.  I am very happy with the purchase and think it compliments the 800's very well.
  
 I haven't actually ever used the Crack before, (heard good things of course) so I would like to know if anyone has tried both as well.


----------



## koiloco

pdrm360 said:


> Has anyone compared the *WA2* to the *Crack* for the HD800?  Which one pairs better with the HD800?


 
 I haven't heard the WA2 but I did hear the HD800/crack combo.  With good tube, the crack is really great with HD800 even though it's not a very warm amp to my ears.
 I am also very curious about the WA2.  I've talked to some people who really like the HD800/WA2 combo.  DG is one of those owners.


----------



## drez

james-uk said:


> According to measurements of flat speakers in a treated room the rise in db from 6-10 kHz is normal. See slide 29.
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16343460/Olive%20ALMA%202014%20Winter%20Symposium%20Headphone%20Talk%20copy.key.pdf


 
  
 The frequency response of flat measuring speaker in treated room is quite a bit different from HD800 frequency response - the level at 6-8 khz may be similar, but the target response Harman used has a heap more between 2-6 khz.
  
 Apart from that the amount of treble looks about right which is surprising - maybe the boost from 2-6 khz balances out the treble a bit?  (Serious question - I am ignorant of EQ)


----------



## vincent215

preproman said:


> A Planar with imaging and the sound stage of the HD800s


 
 cost only $850


----------



## maarek99

willjbryan said:


> I disagree with the view that the shrill treble on the HD800s is a product of the recordings that are fed into it, for two reasons.
> 
> First, my speakers have a flat frequency response curve. When I listen to most recordings on them, it sounds like live music. Less so the HD800, unless I EQ it to reduce the treble.
> 
> Second, if you compare the frequency response curve for the HD600 vs the HD800, you'll see that the latter is much louder through the mid-treble frequencies. My experience with the HD600, as well as every review of it I've read, is that it's extremely neutral, albeit somewhat lacking in speed and detail. I have a hard time believing that the HD800 is curing a defect of the HD600 in this respect. In any case, my ears side with the HD600 response, and even more with the HD800 tuned to match its predecessor.


 
  
 When I plug the HD800 to the Asus Essence STX, it has too much treble and clinical. When I plug them into the V-DACII paired with a Lake People G100 amp, it sounds very neutral with almost no treble boost. When I plug it into my Onkyo stereoamp, it's somewhere in between but still sounds good. Only the Essence STX makes it sound too piercing (and missing texture too)
  
 HD800 changes surprisingly much.


----------



## Dillan

maarek99 said:


> When I plug the HD800 to the Asus Essence STX, it has too much treble and clinical. When I plug them into the V-DACII paired with a Lake People G100 amp, it sounds very neutral with almost no treble boost. When I plug it into my Onkyo stereoamp, it's somewhere in between but still sounds good. Only the Essence STX makes it sound too piercing (and missing texture too)
> 
> HD800 changes surprisingly much.


 
  
 Oh of course.
  
 I dont think the Essence STX is suitable at all for the HD 800.


----------



## pdrm360

koiloco said:


> I haven't heard the WA2 but I did hear the HD800/crack combo.  With good tube, the crack is really great with HD800 even though it's not a very warm amp to my ears.
> I am also very curious about the WA2.  I've talked to some people who really like the HD800/WA2 combo.  DG is one of those owners.


 
  
 How was the HD800/Crack combo in compare to your HD800/WA22 combo? Thanks!


----------



## TwoEars

dillan said:


> Oh of course.
> 
> I dont think the Essence STX is suitable at all for the HD 800.


 

 You'd be surprised. The essence stx is a $200 card from a major manufacturer with all that entails in terms of volume and lowering costs.
  
 And you don't pay for chassi or PSU, only for the card itself. So that's probably the equivalent of something like at least $500-$600 from a smaller manufacturer who has to make a custom chassi and so on.
  
 It has a high-end DA and swappable op-amps and that card is certainly powerful enough to drive the HD800.
  
 I bet with the right OP-amps and a little EQ-ing the essence STX will sound amazing for $200....


----------



## Dillan

twoears said:


> You'd be surprised. The essence stx is a $200 card from a major manufacturer with all that entails in terms of volume and lowering costs.
> 
> And you don't pay for chassi or PSU, only for the card itself. So that's probably the equivalent of something like at least $500-$600 from a smaller manufacturer who has to make a custom chassi and so on.
> 
> ...


 


 Oh yes.  I am fully aware.
  
 I wasn't disrespecting it as a quality sound card. 
  
 I love Asus and most of their products.
  
 I meant it as.. the essence doesn't compliment the HD800 very well. 
  
 Not "can't" - If that makes sense.

 And of course that's speaking as it is..  With upgrades and EQ tweaking like you mentioned.. Things could change I guess.


----------



## TwoEars

dillan said:


> Oh yes.  I am fully aware.
> 
> I wasn't disrespecting it as a quality sound card.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Roger


----------



## erikfreedom

hd 800 deserve much more than an asus essence stx. I have had the card for more than 2 years. it is a very good sound card but not for the hd 800. it c'ant drive them properly. thin sound with no bottom end and very hot unpleasant treble. and the highest gain setting is not gonna change a thing. this card sound surprisingly good with th900 and denon d7000 headphones.


----------



## Dillan

erikfreedom said:


> hd 800 deserve much more than an asus essence stx. I have had the card for more than 2 years. it is a very good sound card but not for the hd 800. it c'ant drive them properly. thin sound with no bottom end and very hot unpleasant treble. and the highest gain setting is not gonna change a thing. this card sound surprisingly good with th900 and denon d7000 headphones.


 
  
 I could see that.


----------



## preproman

viper2005 said:


> A Yulong DA8 with the Violectric V200 or Yulong A18 will do that for you in solid state, if you don't want to mess with tubes.  The A18 is more warmer and forward than the V200.


 
  
 Thanks..  I like my amps to lean more towards the neutral side.


----------



## icebear

maarek99 said:


> When I plug the HD800 to the Asus Essence STX, it has too much treble and clinical. When I plug them into the V-DACII paired with a Lake People G100 amp, it sounds very neutral with almost no treble boost. When I plug it into my Onkyo stereoamp, it's somewhere in between but still sounds good. Only the Essence STX makes it sound too piercing (and missing texture too)
> 
> HD800 changes surprisingly much.


 

 +1 on the initial part with the observations, just the conclusion has it backwards ).
 The HD800 doesn't change but it reveals the sound of each amp.


----------



## punit

Just switched to HD 800 after an hour with T90's (Btlhd Crack + TS 5998 + Mullard Ecc82). Sounds a bit "lean" in comparison but the sound stage OMG 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, always amazes me. Fortunately Meier Daccord has a mid bass boost switch, flip it on & perfect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Guess there's no perfect HP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but there are ways to make them perfect for you


----------



## skeptic

Punit - if you have one, try a 50's/60's tung sol 12au7 or 12bh7 in place of that mullard in your crack.  I like the tube combo you mentioned with my hd650's, but I also find the sound a little lean (and, depending on the recording, trebles a little too hot), as you described, with hd800's (at least, when the anax mod is not in place).  I consistently prefer tung sol's in the a-slot of my crack with hd800's, and they're generally not very expensive either.  They're more neutral than bugle boys and less bright than clear tops and the mullards I've heard.
  
 Using a 6080 or 6as7g in place of the 5998 will also raise your output impedance and give you more midbass and bass bloom (at the cost of tightness), particularly with hd800's if you look at the 100hz spike in the impedance curve.  But I hear you in so far as the 5998's making some magic in terms of a holographic soundstage.    
  
 I also saw your reference in the crack thread to interest in 6sn7 adapters.  Just in case you haven't done so already, I'd encourage you to search back through that thread for "adapter" and read up on the experiences many of us have had with those adapters creating plainly audible noise.  Bottlehead now recommends further mods to supply the heater pins with dc if you are going to run 6sn7's to mitigate that issue.


----------



## punit

Thanks. I have ordered a tung sol 12au7 few days back & should get it this week. Yes , I did read about the noise created by some 6SN7 adapters but some users on the Btlhd forum's have also reported using them without any issue. I have ordered one as its only a $25 gamble & I have 2 very good 6SN7 tubes (TS & Sophia Elec.) which are know for their mid range sweetness, will let you know how it goes.


----------



## Rayzilla

punit said:


> ... Fortunately Meier Daccord has a mid bass boost switch, flip it on & perfect
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have something like that on my DAC as well. It's just a click of a button to change from solid state to vacuum tube. The change is very noticeable.


----------



## palmfish

rayzilla said:


> I have something like that on my DAC as well. It's just a click of a button to change from solid state to vacuum tube. The change is very noticeable.


 
  
 A distortion button! Brilliant!


----------



## elvergun

palmfish said:


> A distortion button! Brilliant!


 
  
 And the really good DACs let you simulate different brands of tubes...


----------



## skeptic

punit said:


> Thanks. I have ordered a tung sol 12au7 few days back & should get it this week. Yes , I did read about the noise created by some 6SN7 adapters but some users on the Btlhd forum's have also reported using them without any issue. I have ordered one as its only a $25 gamble & I have 2 very good 6SN7 tubes (TS & Sophia Elec.) which are know for their mid range sweetness, will let you know how it goes.


 
  
 Nice!  Here's hoping the adapter pans out for you notwithstanding my two failed attempts.  One was admittedly much better than the other, but with hd800's, the noise was still plainly audible.  In any event, I'll look forward to your report back.


----------



## pdrm360

pdrm360 said:


> Has anyone compared the *WA2* to the *Crack* for the HD800?  Which one pairs better with the HD800?


 
   No One?


----------



## icebear

palmfish said:


> A distortion button! Brilliant!


 
  
  


elvergun said:


> And the really good DACs let you simulate different brands of tubes...


 

 LOL, you guys are cracking me up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## koiloco

^ then you should see my DAC.  It has X-Bass button, specifically designed for HD800.


----------



## palmfish

"But this one goes to eleven..."


----------



## Dillan

palmfish said:


> "But this one goes to eleven..."


 

 haha


----------



## TwoEars

pdrm360 said:


> No One?


 
  
 I haven't heard either to be honest but I've read quite a lot about them. The WA2 is supposed to be the smoother, more luxurious, more tubey sounding tube amp while the crack is supposed to be the clearer, more engaging foot tapping one with a hint of tubes. Both are deemed very good but from what I understand the value proposition of the crack is off the charst. I know that for instance Project86 rates the crack with speedball upgrade as one of the best amps you can get for the HD800, full stop.


----------



## Eternal Phoenix

Well, as of a few hours ago, I have now acquired a HD800.
  
 Currently using a O2/ODAC combo, but may get the Chord Hugo / Resonessence Concero HP dependant on sound / funds before moving to the Invicta.
 (Unfortunately seem to be long term plans atm...) Anyway, am now part of the way to some sort of system...
  
 If these get better after 100 hours or so, then I would say I'm in for a treat, but the worn in evaluation pair were pretty damn fantastic so... I think I can say I've started down the long slippery slope that is head-fi.
  
  
 As of now these are pretty darn good and better than most 'phones I have heard, will give some proper impressions / additions to this thread in a couple of weeks or so.


----------



## mediumraresteak

Debating between the LCD-X and HD800 still to pair with my WA7.  Is Sennheiser coming out a new HP soon, HD900 or something along those lines?


----------



## 62ohm

mediumraresteak said:


> Debating between the LCD-X and HD800 still to pair with my WA7.  Is Sennheiser coming out a new HP soon, HD900 or something along those lines?


 
  
 In my opinion, Sennheiser can't really make another Dynamic headphone because there isn't anything to fix on the HD800


----------



## pdrm360

62ohm said:


> In my opinion, Sennheiser can't really make another Dynamic headphone because there isn't anything to fix on the HD800


 
  
 +1


----------



## talisman42

How easily can that outer diaphram get damaged? Actually, I'm not sure what the material is, but prefer not to poke at it to test my theories lol. If there was an update, maybe a design that makes that part of the headphone less exposed (if it is indeed fragile). I've personally seen it dented and creased on a demo HD800.


----------



## MacedonianHero

talisman42 said:


> How easily can that outer diaphram get damaged? Actually, I'm not sure what the material is, but prefer not to poke at it to test my theories lol. If there was an update, maybe a design that makes that part of the headphone less exposed (if it is indeed fragile). I've personally seen it dented and creased on a demo HD800.


 
 No one has ever reported it damaged. I've had my pair now for about 4 years and they are in MINT condition. Unless you manhandle them, like anything, you'd likely then have issues.


----------



## 62ohm

macedonianhero said:


> No one has ever reported it damaged. I've had my pair now for about 4 years and they are in MINT condition. Unless you manhandle them, like anything, you'd likely then have issues.


 
  
 This post gave me a feeling of security. I always feared a day will come when the durability of my HD800 failed me. I guess even if it does come, it's still a long time away


----------



## MacedonianHero

62ohm said:


> This post gave me a feeling of security. I always feared a day will come when the durability of my HD800 failed me. I guess even if it does come, it's still a long time away


 
 They have been with me the longest of all my headphones....for good reason.


----------



## Dillan

I recently posted about that. 

 I think it is way too fragile. 
  
 Barely touching that grey mesh causes noticeable fingerprints, and about a week or two ago I barely touched it with the cable end and it caused a scratch.
  
 It is literally the only bad thing I would point out on the 800's. 

 Some say the 800's are bright, but I disagree - especially with the right gear.
  
 I think the HD 900's would have to come out in about a thousand years when technology is advanced enough!

 Maybe their next flagship would be another electro stat.


----------



## Dillan

Also, I am very very very careful with the 800's.
  
 I do think they are very well built - I just think the outer grey mesh is just too fragile to be able to easily touch.


----------



## 62ohm




----------



## MacedonianHero

dillan said:


> Also, I am very very very careful with the 800's.
> 
> I do think they are very well built - I just think the outer grey mesh is just too fragile to be able to easily touch.


 
 Compared to pretty much all TOTL cans, the HD800s have had basically no quality issues...and by far, most where owner induced.
  
 These are $1500 headphones, so I recommend treating them as such!


----------



## Dillan

Yea like I said I am extremely careful with the headphones.
  
 I just think the grey mesh is too fragile and shows fingerprints way too easily.. not only that, but its very hard to clean those fingerprints off.
  
 Of course I take extra special care and never touch that area now that I have learned and after spending hours cleaning them.
  
 I don't think it is a huge problem, but I do feel like it is flawed in a way. 
  
 Perhaps something so delicate could either be inaccessible or more durable.


----------



## 62ohm

In person, the T1 seems like a much better built headphones than the HD800. But from the reports, the T1 seems to be plagued by inconsistent QC problem, whereas the HD800 is a quality consistency phenomenon. IMO in person the K812 seems to also possess better build quality than HD800, but I guess looks can deceive


----------



## MacedonianHero

62ohm said:


> In person, the T1 seems like a much better built headphones than the HD800. But from the reports, the T1 seems to be plagued by inconsistent QC problem, whereas the HD800 is a quality consistency phenomenon. IMO in person the K812 seems to also possess better build quality than HD800, but I guess looks can deceive


 
 In person, I would agree with this. But the QC issues for the T1s aren't the greatest...then there's the actual sound quality. And with the right setup, the HD800s are technically superior. I owned the first pair of T1s sold in Canada and enjoyed my 3 years with them, BUT, my HD800s are still here.


----------



## Mambosenior

macedonianhero said:


> These are $1500 headphones, so I recommend treating them as such!




Indeed! After a heavy night of Radiohead or Massive Attack, put on some Mozart and Schubert the next morning for them to recover.


----------



## erikfreedom

I have had mine for more than 2 years and they are better than ever. yeah they have your typical minor paint chipping. I could have taken care of them a bit better. but 12 hours listening sessions a day does just that. I listen to them in my bed too and I fall asleep with them on my head too ah ah.  I recently upgraded my dac and they have surpassed my he-6. I had an asus xonar essence stx. for the past 3 years as my main source. I plugged all my amps into it. I liked it because I could play with equalizer. on that setup he-6 had better sound. but it was not worthy of hd 800 as dac.
  
 now I have hegel hd25 dac. sound quality has increased dramatically. and I d'ont need to play with eq anymore. sound is incredible. what I have discovered is that hd 800 scale more than any headphones I own. I have not heard the stats like sr 009 but my hd 800 has increased in sound quality more than my he-6. that dac upgrade was the missing link of my setup.
  
 now I want to upgrade amplifier for hd 800. but I fear it might not be worthwhile. ef-6 does a tremendous job as amplifier with hd 800. it gives weight to the sound and keep treble in check.
  
 I have removed the inner liners inside the cups a long time ago.


----------



## 62ohm

macedonianhero said:


> In person, I would agree with this. But the QC issues for the T1s aren't the greatest...then there's the actual sound quality. And with the right setup, the HD800s are technically superior. I owned the first pair of T1s sold in Canada and enjoyed my 3 years with them, BUT, my HD800s are still here.


 
  
 I don't think we need a monster setup to see the superiority of the HD800 against T1 / K812. Even on WA7 & Soloist SL it was easy to see which one was the better headphones in term of technicality. Musicality may be subjective, but IMO technicality is absolute. This is all just my opinion, no offense intended to the owner of mentioned cans.


----------



## Dillan

I obviously feel that other headphones are more durable, but it isn't a large enough issue to where it takes anything away from them.
  
 Besides all of that, the sound quality is good enough to make that aspect outshine any other issue anyway.


----------



## MacedonianHero

62ohm said:


> I don't think we need a monster setup to see the superiority of the HD800 against T1 / K812. Even on WA7 & Soloist SL it was easy to see which one was the better headphones in term of technicality. Musicality may be subjective, but IMO technicality is absolute. This is all just my opinion, no offense intended to the owner of mentioned cans.


 
 No you don't...but the gap does continue to widen.


----------



## koiloco

Let's stop patting ourselves on the back, shall we?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but yeah, I even enjoy my HD800 off Fiio E17/E9K at the office.


----------



## 62ohm

macedonianhero said:


> No you don't...but the gap does continue to widen.


 
  
 So here I am sitting, wondering how does the HD800 sounds with your HeadAmp GS-X Mk.2 & BDA-2


----------



## MacedonianHero

62ohm said:


> So here I am sitting, wondering how does the HD800 sounds with your HeadAmp GS-X Mk.2 & BDA-2


 
 Too bad you're so far away...if you're ever in the Great White North, drop by!


----------



## magiccabbage

62ohm said:


> In person, the T1 seems like a much better built headphones than the HD800. But from the reports, the T1 seems to be plagued by inconsistent QC problem, whereas the HD800 is a quality consistency phenomenon. IMO in person the K812 seems to also possess better build quality than HD800, but I guess looks can deceive


 
 hd800 is the better build, the leather on my t1's have come away from the binding and the logo is faded - all in less than 1 year. I take care of them  extremely well, they are never left on a hard surface, always in their cases. I think i will have to send my T1's back and maybe i will sell them when they are repaired. Might sell the WA2 as well. 
  
 I plan on getting DNA Stratus and Schiit YDD for HD800, i just have to wait on reports of how good the YDD is but i think that will be a my journey over for headphones and hopefully this will happen by the end of the year.


----------



## Maxvla

dillan said:


> I obviously feel that other headphones are more durable, but it isn't a large enough issue to where it takes anything away from them.
> 
> Besides all of that, the sound quality is good enough to make that aspect outshine any other issue anyway.



Do you have some kind of vendetta going on? You keep on and on about durability not being up to snuff on the only headphone on the market that has almost zero physical faults. No blown drivers, no cracked plastic, consistent driver matching, consistent sound from unit to unit.. what else are you expecting? The only physical fault is thin paint that can flake. Then again, that does nothing to the performance of the headphones.

Drag your cable's plug across the metal screen like a dolt and complain about it being scratched? Be more observant. Complain about fingerprints on an item that is manipulated solely by... fingers? Be more realistic.


----------



## 62ohm

maxvla said:


> Do you have some kind of vendetta going on? You keep on and on about durability not being up to snuff on the only headphone on the market that has almost zero physical faults. No blown drivers, no cracked plastic, consistent driver matching, consistent sound from unit to unit.. what else are you expecting? The only physical fault is thin paint that can flake. Then again, that does nothing to the performance of the headphones.
> 
> Drag your cable's plug across the metal screen like a dolt and complain about it being scratched? Be more observant. Complain about fingerprints on an item that is manipulated solely by... fingers? Be more realistic.


 
  
 This. At first glance HD800 might seem to have a rubbish build quality, but ironically it's one of very few cans out there that I am yet to find a report of "bad unit". Many company claims to have a strict quality control, and Sennheiser is one of them. But in this case, it seems that their claim is not simply marketing bollocks.


----------



## BournePerfect

The HD800s to me have the best build quality and aesthetics of any headphone in my profile. Easily. If anything, the Ultrasones could probably be the only ones to withstand a hard throw or two against a wall-and the Pro 900s will make you WANT to. 

-Daniel


----------



## paradoxper

The QC control on the HD800 is unmatched. You ever hear of a driver failure? I have not. However the paint chipping is a PITA.


----------



## Dillan

maxvla said:


> Do you have some kind of vendetta going on? You keep on and on about durability not being up to snuff on the only headphone on the market that has almost zero physical faults. No blown drivers, no cracked plastic, consistent driver matching, consistent sound from unit to unit.. what else are you expecting? The only physical fault is thin paint that can flake. Then again, that does nothing to the performance of the headphones.
> 
> Drag your cable's plug across the metal screen like a dolt and complain about it being scratched? Be more observant. Complain about fingerprints on an item that is manipulated solely by... fingers? Be more realistic.


 
  
 What are you talking about, I didn't mean to make you angry.
  
 If I were against the HD 800's, I wouldn't still have a pair.
  
 I am just OCD about things I like and use, especially when they are a little pricey.
  
 Trust me, if I didn't like them, I would sell them. 
  
 Also I didn't "drag my cable plugs across the metal like a dolt".. the cable end barely touched the outer flimsy mesh and created a small scratch.
  
 Try not to pretend things are made perfectly, I love the HD 800's the same or more than you do, but I am not on a high horse pretending everything is perfect.
  
 Besides, the design "flaw" is still subjective, your comment could have been your opinion without the negativity..
  
 Thanks.


----------



## HeadNroll

I was really surprised after realising that paiint of the HD800 I own (19xxx pair) is very durable... I have zero scratches even though I use the headphone every day.
  
  
 That said, I have two complaints:
  
 1) They are not very compact... I mean - HD800s are not fragile but they do NOT feel solid or built like a tank. I am always careful when manipulating with them - not intentionally, it's just how I react every time. On the other hand, with headphones like AKG Kxx or Hifimans, manipulating with them is very care-free - they just feel more compact and solid so I am not worried about anything.
  
 2) My pair started to squeak quite early after acquiring them... Like a month or two after. It squeaks occasionally when adjusting them on my head (rotating the cups). To put things into context, I am extremely careful with every headphone I own and therefore I don't think it's my fault that they squeak.
  
  
 Comfortwise and soundwise, they are the very best I have ever seen... The best up to 2000USD at least, IMHO. But the built quality could be better.


----------



## Dillan

headnroll said:


> I was really surprised after realising that paiint of the HD800 I own (19xxx pair) is very durable... I have zero scratches even though I use the headphone every day.
> 
> 
> That said, I have two complaints:
> ...


 
  
 +1
  
 I have heard that some people have problems with the paint chipping, but I have not at all had this happen to me.  I think the paint job is very durable, at least in my case as I am also very careful with them.
  
 I also agree with the comparison to the Hifimans.  Also the comfort and sound (I too think they are unmatched almost).
  
 I haven't had any squeak issues however, but that is pretty unfortunate.  
  
 Sometimes it doesn't matter how careful you are, situations can happen.
  
 The important thing like I keep saying is.. the sound quality and comfort.


----------



## Maxvla

dillan said:


> What are you talking about, I didn't mean to make you angry.
> 
> If I were against the HD 800's, I wouldn't still have a pair.
> 
> ...



I'm not angry, just looking at the evidence (or the lack thereof) and trying to justify your tirade, but coming up empty. I'm not saying the HD800 is perfect, but as far as a modern manufactured product, it's about as good as is possible. I think you are being unrealistic in your expectations.


----------



## Dillan

maxvla said:


> I'm not angry, just looking at the evidence (or the lack thereof) and trying to justify your tirade, but coming up empty. I'm not saying the HD800 is perfect, but as far as a modern manufactured product, it's about as good as is possible. I think you are being unrealistic in your expectations.


 
  
 Alright, well pointing out a few flaws and pretending they aren't there are two different things.
  
 A tirade is not me saying something that you don't agree with.
  
 Try to be a little more reasonable and have a discussion instead of getting upset over me pointing something out.


----------



## WNBC

Figured I'd see what all the fuss was about. 
  
 I don't find anything too crazy with your original post.  I don't think I've ever come close to touching the mesh grey area.  I don't know how strong that mesh is so I made a mental note to stay away.
  
 I actually don't inspect my HD-800.  It's on a stand.  I pick it up and put it on my ears.  If it picks up anything like a fingerprint I'll clean it off at some point....maybe.  Fingerprints are good for ownership determination.
  
 I agree, the HD800 is not too bright with my gear, but I can see how with a different rig it could become brighter in presentation.
  
 The only thing I would disagree with is the 1000 years.  I'd say within 10 years there will be something as the new flagship.  15 years if you made me put money down.
  
  
 Quote:


dillan said:


> I recently posted about that.
> 
> I think it is way too fragile.
> 
> ...


----------



## Dillan

Haha yea maybe a thousand years is a bit of an exaggeration.
  
 But yea, like I said I just think the little outer mesh is the only thing fragile about it.
  
 My paint has held up very well and the high quality, light weight plastic and Japanese leather make it so comfortable.
  
 I was just being honest with my experiences and sometimes that won't agree with some people, but it's just my opinion and experiences.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 That doesn't make someone a "dolt".  Show a little more respect. 
  
 Good post WNBC and yea I think around 10 would be a good guess.
  
 I couldn't imagine much more of an improvement though, I am really in love with their current flagship.
  
 I remember Tyll talking about how long and how much went into building the 800's, something truly magical.


----------



## Fegefeuer

10? 10????
  
 From what I heard from various sources it's far below 2.


----------



## Dillan

fegefeuer said:


> 10? 10????
> 
> From what I heard from various sources it's far below 2.


 
  
 Really?  That's actually crazy to hear.
  
 If it is below 10 years then they have been working on them no doubt for years now.
  
 You better not be pulling our leg!


----------



## HeadNroll

fegefeuer said:


> 10? 10????
> 
> From what I heard from various sources it's far below 2.


 
  
 Are you talking about the ultra high-end (price-wise) electrostatic Sennheiser that is supposed to be announced later this year?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Of course they started years ago, every serious business does R&D very very early if it wants to stay at the top. They are constantly researching and testing. Sennheiser is the most ambitious developer of all. 
  
 Don't expect a HD 800 price though.


----------



## Dillan

Obviously they would have started years ago if they are coming out with something flagship status in the next year or two..
  
 That is kind of assumed..
  
 I just didn't know they were already close enough for a release that soon!
  
 Although, don't they traditionally come out with a new flagship around every 5 years?
  
 Pretty exciting stuff.


----------



## icebear

A new flagship every 5 years ?
 A new flagship should deliver a significant improvement over the previous one, right ? Why would anyone bother with it when there was no obvious improvement ? Once you have reached a certain level of performance, it does get pretty difficult to improve on it, rather than make it just sound "different". Marginal improvements might be possible but at what price? The laws of diminishing returns are kicking in pretty hard.


----------



## HeadNroll

icebear said:


> A new flagship every 5 years ?
> A new flagship should deliver a significant improvement over the previous one, right ? Why would anyone bother with it when there was no obvious improvement ? Once you have reached a certain level of performance, it does get pretty difficult to improve on it, rather than make it just sound "different". Marginal improvements might be possible but at what price? The laws of diminishing returns are kicking in pretty hard.


 
  
 Well, look at the Audeze or Hifiman... They release their flagship model almost every year and even though they still havent beaten HD800 (trying to do so for years), people praise them for bringing HUGE IMPROVEMENTS each time.
  
 In other words, LCD-2 were supposed to be better than HD800... Then LCD-3, now LCD-X... The same goes for Hifiman... And yet all their headphones are still on the level of the HD800, at best. Do you see the trend of diminishing returns more clearly now? I do, as well as Tyll from Innerfidelity


----------



## WNBC

I am a fan of the LCD-2.  Did Audeze make the claim they were better than the HD800 or was the claim of others?  I am curious to know as I can't imagine any company saying their headphone is "better".  I can envision them saying better in regards to one specific characteristic but not overall better.  Maybe not even better at one characteristic.  It's all about different flavors of headphones at this point.    
  
  
 Quote:


headnroll said:


> *In other words, LCD-2 were supposed to be better than HD800*... Then LCD-3, now LCD-X... The same goes for Hifiman... And yet all their headphones are still on the level of the HD800, at best. Do you see the trend of diminishing returns more clearly now? I do, as well as Tyll from Innerfidelity


----------



## HeadNroll

wnbc said:


>


 
  
 Not Audeze but people, I mean audiophiles  I am also fan of Audeze and LCD-2, definitely no offense... It's just that none of Audeze or Hifiman headphones are "clearly better than HD800" even though people talked about in this manner every time (especially during the first year after release dates).
  
 Why companies shouldnt release flagships each year or two then? We, audiophiles, are willing to appreciate even the slightest improvement or change in sound with our wallets... So why not?


----------



## WNBC

Bingo!
  
 I don't know where the improvements will be heard.  I've only had mine for a little over a month so I may find some quirks in the sound later on but after a decent list of headphones owned the HD800 is my favorite.  I admitted it!  At first I was a little skeptical but it has grown on me tremendously, esp. with the CSP3 in front of the Taboo in the chain.  
  
 Maybe we can have a woody HD800 or 3D printed cups on the HD800.  I never thought I'd see a wood ring around the HE-500 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
  
 Quote:


headnroll said:


> We, audiophiles, are willing to appreciate even the slightest improvement or change in sound with our wallets... So why not?


----------



## sp3llv3xit

headnroll said:


> Not Audeze but people, I mean audiophiles  I am also fan of Audeze and LCD-2, definitely no offense... It's just that none of Audeze or Hifiman headphones are "clearly better than HD800" even though people talked about in this manner every time (especially during the first year after release dates).
> 
> Why companies shouldnt release flagships each year or two then? We, audiophiles, are willing to appreciate even the slightest improvement or change in sound with our wallets... So why not?


 


 +1


----------



## sp3llv3xit

headnroll said:


> Well, look at the Audeze or Hifiman... They release their flagship model almost every year and even though they still havent beaten HD800 (trying to do so for years), people praise them for bringing HUGE IMPROVEMENTS each time.
> 
> In other words, LCD-2 were supposed to be better than HD800... Then LCD-3, now LCD-X... The same goes for Hifiman... And yet all their headphones are still on the level of the HD800, at best. Do you see the trend of diminishing returns more clearly now? I do, as well as Tyll from Innerfidelity


 

 Is the LCD2 r2 better than the HD800?  

 Comfort:  LCD < HD800
 Detail:  LCD < HD800
 Reference Neutrality:  LCD < HD800
 Bass Resolution:  LCD > HD800
 Fun Factor:  LCD > HD800
 Scalability:  LCD < HD800


----------



## Audio Jester

The next dynamic flagship for Sennheiser will more likely be "different" rather than better than the HD800 IMO. There is a lot of love for the HD800 and it has some really unique aspects to its sonic character that I think we will see a repeat of the HD600 vs HD650 debate. I get the feeling that Sennheiser will have to shift to electrostatics or maybe a new form of dynamic (multiple drivers maybe?) to topple the HD800.


----------



## HeadNroll

audio jester said:


> The next dynamic flagship for Sennheiser will more likely be "different" rather than better than the HD800 IMO. There is a lot of love for the HD800 and it has some really unique aspects to its sonic character that I think we will see a repeat of the HD600 vs HD650 debate. I get the feeling that Sennheiser will have to shift to electrostatics or maybe a new form of dynamic (multiple drivers maybe?) to topple the HD800.


 
  
 My guess is that the HD800 are going to stay their dynamic flagship for quite some time... I think companies like Sennheiser or Hifiman realised that there is not enough research/progress done to focus further on improving their dynamic/planar-magnetic designs, and therefore going to switch to electrostatic drivers again... Well, they already did - that's more than obvious now.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

wnbc said:


>


 


 I took out the 3 months-old 1350 and converted the rather bassy, tunnel-like sound to an airy, open-back.  It was a risk but the reward is worth it.  

 But the HD800 is a different matter.  Screwing around with a near-perfect product may not necessarily yield an improvement.  Besides, I have NOT the courage to gut the Senn flagship.


----------



## WNBC

Very intriguing.  Love the exploration.  Maybe in several years I can give you my HD800 to gut and woodified.  
  
  
 Quote:


sp3llv3xit said:


> I took out the 3 months-old 1350 and converted the rather bassy, tunnel-like sound to an airy, open-back.  It was a risk but the reward is worth it.
> 
> But the HD800 is a different matter.  Screwing around with a near-perfect product may not necessarily yield an improvement.  Besides, I have NOT the courage to gut the Senn flagship.
> 
> ...


----------



## sp3llv3xit

wnbc said:


>


 


 Thanks, but no thanks.  I don't think I have the stomach to tinker with it.        [Peace.]


----------



## Dillan

Yea I have to agree with the previous posts.
  
 I can't imagine a dynamic flagship from Sennheiser coming out anytime soon.
  
 The 800, in my eyes (and ears), has so little room for improvement with that form of driver.
  
 The great news is that some of these manufacturers probably are going to go to electrostatics, which is actually great for more than a few reasons:
  
 Gives companies like Sennheiser with an incredible team of engineers and sound scientists a new type of technology to work with (again for some of them).
  
 I also think it is great, because one major turn off (for me at least) are the compatibility issues with headphone amps - in terms of electrostats. 
  
 I would be more inclined to buy a pair of Stax if the market had a wider range of amps for them.. and I feel like if a company like Sennheiser started mass producing a flagship or at least "high end" pair of electrostats, then they alone would change the market in more ways than one.


----------



## elvergun

dillan said:


> Gives companies like Sennheiser with an incredible team of engineers and sound scientists a new type of technology to work with (again for some of them).


 
 Gives companies like Sennheiser with an incredible team of engineers and sound scientists a reason to gouge us when they release that new technology.


----------



## Dillan

elvergun said:


> Gives companies like Sennheiser with an incredible team of engineers and sound scientists a reason to gouge us when they release that new technology.


 
  
 haha!
  
 Oh gosh I guess you are right.


----------



## skeptic

Possibly where we're headed?

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/512496/first-graphene-audio-speaker-easily-outperforms-traditional-designs/


----------



## Dillan

skeptic said:


> Possibly where we're headed?
> 
> http://www.technologyreview.com/view/512496/first-graphene-audio-speaker-easily-outperforms-traditional-designs/


 
  
 Graphene is exciting new technology. 
  
 I have read a lot about it in computer applications, but I haven't heard much about it in the audio world.
  
 Interesting read and makes me want to look into that further.
  

  
 hmm.
  
 Apparently students at Berkley created a little pair of experimental headphones.


----------



## icebear

headnroll said:


> Well, look at the Audeze or Hifiman... They release their flagship model almost every year and even though they still havent beaten HD800 (trying to do so for years), people praise them for bringing HUGE IMPROVEMENTS each time.
> 
> In other words, LCD-2 were supposed to be better than HD800... Then LCD-3, now LCD-X... The same goes for Hifiman... And yet all their headphones are still on the level of the HD800, at best. _Do you see the trend of diminishing returns more clearly now?_ I do, as well as Tyll from Innerfidelity


 

 I was referring to Sennheiser in regards to "a new flagship very five years", as the two posts before were specifically mentioning their developers. And this is the HD800 thread...
  
 I obviously have no problem to see the issue of diminishing returns. What are you are asking about ? That others are not able to reach the performance of the latest dynamic driver with their choice of technology might just be a matter of physics and certain design properties that can not be overcome. They for sure have room for improvement.


----------



## Maxvla

1993 - HD580 released
2003 - HD650 released
2009 - HD800 released

I'm not seeing the 'every 5 years'. Note that the HD600 is virtually the same unit as the HD580, just different housing/headband/etc.


----------



## 62ohm

maxvla said:


> 1993 - HD580 released
> 2003 - HD650 released
> 2009 - HD800 released
> 
> I'm not seeing the 'every 5 years'. Note that the HD600 is virtually the same unit as the HD580, just different housing/headband/etc.


 
  
 So essentially it took them 16 years to come up with something that's really 'new'. If they are to retain this pattern, I guess the true successor of HD800 will be released in 2025?


----------



## elvergun

maxvla said:


> Note that the HD600 is virtually the same unit as the HD580, just different housing/headband/etc.


 
  
  
 I heard that they almost released the HD650 with a bright green cable...but they decided against it and sold the technology to AKG instead.


----------



## Audio Jester

elvergun said:


> I heard that they almost released the HD650 with a bright green cable...but they decided against it and sold the technology to AKG instead.



LOL. I can imagine it was pitched as the "Green Lantern" upgrade.


----------



## pdrm360

maxvla said:


> 1993 - HD580 released
> 2003 - HD650 released
> 2009 - HD800 released
> 
> I'm not seeing the 'every 5 years'. Note that the HD600 is virtually the same unit as the HD580, just different housing/headband/etc.


 
  
 2012 - HD700 released


----------



## Sonido

Well if Nomax, the prognosticator of the AKG K812, is to be believed, something new from Sennheiser that will "be an answer to the K812" is going to be revealed this year. I think he hinted something along the lines of a low impedance, easy to drive TOTL headphone comparable to the K812, hence "an answer" to the K812. If this is true, not sure if the concept of an easy to drive headphone appeal to many on here. HD800p anyone?


----------



## Maxvla

I think they already tried that with the HD700 and failed miserably.


----------



## 62ohm

sonido said:


> Well if Nomax, the prognosticator of the AKG K812, is to be believed, something new from Sennheiser that will "be an answer to the K812" is going to be revealed this year. I think he hinted something along the lines of a low impedance, easy to drive TOTL headphone comparable to the K812, hence "an answer" to the K812. If this is true, not sure if the concept of an easy to drive headphone appeal to many on here. HD800p anyone?


 
  
 The day Sennheiser released a 32ohm headphone with the Caliber of HD800 is the day the earth stood still...


----------



## BournePerfect

62ohm said:


> The day Sennheiser released a 32ohm headphone with the Caliber of HD800 is the day the earth stood still...




Yep.


----------



## erikfreedom

the reason why it took so long between each sennheiser flagships in the past is that in those times, there was not a lof of uber high end cans on the market and not much competition. now things are much more different. competition is extremely ferocious.
  
 especially with audeze and hifiman relentless attacks. but sennheiser has built the hd 800 with enormous potential for longevity.
  
 but competitors are getting there slowly but surely.
  
 it may take some time before a new flagship from sennheiser appear. sennheiser still sell a boatload of hd 800 every year.
  
 it is gonna take a monumental pair of cans from sennheiser to dethrone the hd 800. absolutely monumental.


----------



## Dillan

erikfreedom said:


> the reason why it took so long between each sennheiser flagships in the past is that in those times, there was not a lof of uber high end cans on the market and not much competition. now things are much more different. competition is extremely ferocious.
> 
> especially with audeze and hifiman relentless attacks. but sennheiser has built the hd 800 with enormous potential for longevity.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yea I think you are right completely here.
  
 They aren't going to make the mistake of creating something that is "just enough".
  
 Their new flagship will indeed have to be really something.
  
 Also I may have done my research wrong when I quickly checked over it, but I am still pretty sure that Sennheiser releases a new flagship on "average" every 5 years. Including the orpheus and baby orpheus. (could be wrong on that though so don't hold me to that)
  
 Though I wasn't really hinting that they would follow some sort of pattern.  Like someone mentioned, there are a few more factors to pay attention to these days.  A few being the 800 selling so many, and the new "fierce competition."
  
 I think they are going to wait until they are more than ready and I don't feel there is a huge rush to release anything.
  
 However it does make you wonder what their next top of the line product will be.
  
 Something truly incredible I would think.


----------



## TwoEars

I think HD800's are going to be around for a very, very long time.
  
 With their ring drive technology and large light membranes they are pretty much the perfect transparent transducer, almost impossible to improve upon.
  
 It's recordings, DACs and AMPs that are flawed... not the HD800.


----------



## PleasantSounds

We're all speculating here as there's no reliable info available regarding HD800 being superseded by a new model. But that doesn't mean it's not going to come.
  
 The business reality is such that even if there's no significant technical advancements, a new flagship is bound to appear in the not too distant future. It may be based on the same driver in a new housing, or sport a completely new one. It may not necessarily be better than the HD800, but it will be priced higher (or the HD800 discounted) and labelled the new flagship. 
  
 The reason for that is simple: there is a significant group of customers that will feel compelled to upgrade, and that means additional sales to Sennheiser. This happens quite often in the industry - those who followed the AKG K701 and its successors should already be familiar with this pattern. Large companies have model release schedules that drive sales forecasts and keep revenue flow more stable. Not releasing a new flagship every few years would be a suicide for any business. So my advice is: start saving


----------



## azazell86

It's all about the amp goddammit  you need a tube amp to tame those highs


----------



## TwoEars

pleasantsounds said:


> We're all speculating here as there's no reliable info available regarding HD800 being superseded by a new model. But that doesn't mean it's not going to come.
> 
> The business reality is such that even if there's no significant technical advancements, a new flagship is bound to appear in the not too distant future. It may be based on the same driver in a new housing, or sport a completely new one. It may not necessarily be better than the HD800, but it will be priced higher (or the HD800 discounted) and labelled the new flagship.
> 
> The reason for that is simple: there is a significant group of customers that will feel compelled to upgrade, and that means additional sales to Sennheiser. This happens quite often in the industry - those who followed the AKG K701 and its successors should already be familiar with this pattern. Large companies have model release schedules that drive sales forecasts and keep revenue flow more stable. Not releasing a new flagship every few years would be a suicide for any business. So my advice is: start saving


 
  
 The HD600 has been around for about 18 years, 19 if you count the 580 which essentially was the same headphone.
  
 Even introducing the HD650 (which isn't better, just slightly different than the HD600) took ten years.
  
 Don't hold your breath, Sennheiser doesn't do things like most other companies.
  
 At lets not forget that both the HD650 and HD800 are still selling extremely well.
  
 The HD800 is a nigh on perfect transducer, it was based on a lot of groundbreaking scientific studies about materials, electronics and acoustics. Sennheiser is only going to make a new top end headphone if there has been sufficient scientific progress to justify it. They need to have a new acoustic theory, groundbreaking nano technology or similar.


----------



## WNBC

In the end we can't say there WILL or WILL NOT be a new flagship/successor in the near future.  None of us work for Sennheiser.  Or at least will admit it publicly.  To say that one is not around the corner because the current one is excellent has as many holes as saying they will put out a new flagship to keep revenues steady or they have a history of not releasing hi-end new products quickly.  There is merit to each argument and no matter how much one thinks his or her feeling is correct we are just having fun here, though some people take it more serious than others.  The future might involve new CEOs, profits need boosting, or even a cooler a technological breakthrough.  Maybe the only thing we can agree upon is that R&D is going strong and they are always looking to improve on the technology for their entire lineup.     
  
 At 500+ pages it is fun to get off track and explore the possibilities.  Just goes to show you that many of us enjoy the HD-800.  For me it was a 3 year journey.  Starting off with the HD-650 (version 1) then a dozen or more headphones and now the HD800.  I'm curious to try the HD-650 again at the end of my headphone journey.  Not to say I won't get other headphones but more likely planars as I'm happy with the HD-800 as my main dynamic headphone. 
  
 Anybody try the 2Stepdance or Portaphile 627 with the HD-800?


----------



## JeffA

As to the talk about a new Sennheiser flagship … A poster named "Nomax" has strongly hinted in other threads that Sennheiser will be releasing a new flagship in the second half of this year. He has further hinted that it will not be a dynamic headphone, and will likely be priced around $2,500. I take these rumors seriously because Nomax was dead on in his prerelease rumors regarding the AKG 812 and the SPL Phonitor 2.


----------



## WNBC

Good to know.  I will look up this poster.  At $2,500 + new amping requirement the HD-800 will be here to stay.
  
  
 Quote:


jeffa said:


> As to the talk about a new Sennheiser flagship … A poster named "Nomax" has strongly hinted in other threads that Sennheiser will be releasing a new flagship in the second half of this year. He has further hinted that it will not be a dynamic headphone, and will likely be priced around $2,500. I take these rumors seriously because Nomax was dead on in his prerelease rumors regarding the AKG 812 and the SPL Phonitor 2.


----------



## erikfreedom

this is an agara agh-01gx. a 13 000 usd$ balanced Japanese headphone amplifier.  wonder if anyone has ever heard this with hd 800.


----------



## preproman

> Good to know.  I will look up this poster.  At $2,500 + new amping requirement the HD-800 will be here to stay.


 
  
 Maybe less amping requirements.


----------



## LugBug1

erikfreedom said:


> it is gonna take a monumental pair of cans from sennheiser to dethrone the hd 800. absolutely monumental.


 
 Very true.
  


twoears said:


> I think HD800's are going to be around for a very, very long time.
> 
> With their ring drive technology and large light membranes they are pretty much the perfect transparent transducer,* almost impossible to improve upon*.
> 
> It's recordings, DACs and AMPs that are flawed... not the HD800.


 
 Yup. In all honesty, I wouldn't change a thing with the sound at all. My only ever quip is to have a shorter cable 
  
 It took a very long time to design and they got it right. It just took a little while for peeps to realize it. Most folks had gone straight from the HD650 to the new HD800 and thought 'wooah this is a bit treble happy!' But in fact it was the 650 that was treble deficient.. (in a nice way) 
  
 Soundstage, imaging, dynamics, tone, detail, transparency. I've not heard a dynamic headphone that can touch it in any of these areas.
  
 (I sound like a proper fanboy haha maybe I am!)


----------



## WNBC

Darn, that was a solid reason for not even thinking about owning this new flagship headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 Quote:


preproman said:


> Maybe less amping requirements.


----------



## TwoEars

jeffa said:


> As to the talk about a new Sennheiser flagship … A poster named "Nomax" has strongly hinted in other threads that Sennheiser will be releasing a new flagship in the second half of this year. He has further hinted that it will not be a dynamic headphone, and will likely be priced around $2,500. I take these rumors seriously because Nomax was dead on in his prerelease rumors regarding the AKG 812 and the SPL Phonitor 2.


 
  
 There was an interview with Alex Grell and I don't remember the exact phrasing but he hinted something along the lines of "well Sennheiser has a lot past experience with orthodynamic headphone".
  
 *IF* Sennheiser is going to release a new top headphone in the near future I can definitely believe that it will be an ortho.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I just went into my usual store and got my prodigal son back. I thought alot about it in the recent months and today I wote a few mails and got it back for a good EU price. S/N 28XXX


----------



## James-uk

I would like a them to release a HD850. In my mind it would be the same kind of sidegrade that the 650 was to the 600. It would be more coloured but more fun and forgiving . I think to achieve this it would only need a touch more bass and slightly richer mids whilst retaining all the characteristics of the 800s ie soundstage , speed , detail etc.(or maybe even improving them slightly as well!) That would be my perfect headphone right there.


----------



## LugBug1

james-uk said:


> I would like a them to release a HD850. In my mind it would be the same kind of sidegrade that the 650 was to the 600. It would be more coloured but more fun and forgiving . I think to achieve this it would only need a touch more bass and slightly richer mids whilst retaining all the characteristics of the 800s ie soundstage , speed , detail etc.(or maybe even improving them slightly as well!) That would be my perfect headphone right there.


 
 Actually if they used the same drivers in a closed back hp, might be interesting. Bassier and fuller. Wouldn't be my ideal but it could be a nice compliment.


----------



## MickeyVee

I'm in!!!
  
 Quote:


james-uk said:


>


----------



## BournePerfect

james-uk said:


> I would like a them to release a HD850. In my mind it would be the same kind of sidegrade that the 650 was to the 600. It would be more coloured but more fun and forgiving . I think to achieve this it would only need a touch more bass and slightly richer mids whilst retaining all the characteristics of the 800s ie soundstage , speed , detail etc.(or maybe even improving them slightly as well!) That would be my perfect headphone right there.




In that case just get a P1u for your HD800s. 

-Daniel


----------



## spkrs01

I have recently started listening to my HD800s again. It is really quite a sensational pair of Headphones, especially out of the Cavalli LAu balanced. 
  

  
 Probably, one of the best amps that I have heard the HD800 off. The other amp is the ALO SS with fancy tubes, a Nordost power cord and Stealth Sakra interconnects that my good friend owns. A shame that the ALO is only single ended as I feel the HD800 sounds slightly better balanced.


----------



## jackskelly

One of the two best headphones I've ever listened to. They both are in the picture above.


----------



## pdrm360

^^ Indeed!


----------



## 62ohm

spkrs01 and jackskelly,
  
 Would you classify the SR-009 as a headphone of a different league compared to the HD800, or would you classify both of them as headphones of the same level, with one of them being "slightly?" better?


----------



## Maxvla

Different strengths. The level of refinement the SR-009 has makes it seem on another level, but there are shortcomings that bring it back down to competing on the level of HD800s.


----------



## jackskelly

That's a good question. In some ways I think it's in a different league, and in some ways it's very similar. The HD 800's are still quite incredible, I love them a lot. Their look and soundstage are incredible, and they can still connect to an Ipod, jaja (unlike any STAX headphones).


----------



## 62ohm

I don't mean to be rude, but according to the K812 thread it appears that the K812 is suffering from a quality inconsistently problem already. Perhaps AKG should hire no fewer than 16 acoustics experts and measure their headphones for several days each against an acoustic diffuse field calibrated with an accuracy of +/- 0.1dB.


----------



## jackskelly

62ohm said:


> I don't mean to be rude, but according to the K812 thread it appears that the K812 is suffering from a quality inconsistently problem already. Perhaps AKG should hire no fewer than 16 acoustics experts and measure their headphones for several days each against an acoustic diffuse field calibrated with an accuracy of +/- 0.1dB.


 
  
 What does the K812 have to do with the HD 800? You aren't being rude, I don't get it


----------



## 62ohm

jackskelly said:


> What does the K812 have to do with the HD 800? You aren't being rude, I don't get it


 
  
 I'm comparing the level of the quality control of them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The HD800 has always been known as a marvel of quality consistency. I guess, indirectly, this proves it.


----------



## spkrs01

62ohm said:


> spkrs01 and jackskelly,
> 
> Would you classify the SR-009 as a headphone of a different league compared to the HD800, or would you classify both of them as headphones of the same level, with one of them being "slightly?" better?


 
  
 Purely based on listening....
  
 The 009 is the better pair of headphones, and on a different level. It is far more refined sounding plus, for me, it beautifies the reproduction of what you are listening.
  
   
  

  
 I can have all my favorite headphones running simultaneously volume matched and allowing for my preferences, it would be:-
  
 Abyss > 009
 
HD800 > 007 > TH900


----------



## James-uk

That's 





spkrs01 said:


> Purely based on listening....
> 
> The 009 is the better pair of headphones, and on a different level. It is far more refined sounding plus, for me, it beautifies the reproduction of what you are listening.
> 
> ...



That's heaven right there! Wow.


----------



## TwoEars

I believe Tyll of inner fidelity ranks the HD800 above the Abyss. He did an abyss review and didn't exactly shower it with praise while he still very much liked the HD800. Could be wrong here but that's what I got reading between the lines. But he's a HD800 fan...
  
 Just shows how much personal preference plays a part at this level.


----------



## Hun7er

Beware Tyll tested Abyss prototype that not reflect exactly the final production


----------



## TwoEars

hun7er said:


> Beware Tyll tested Abyss prototype that not reflect exactly the final production


 
  
 This the HD800 appreciation thread. The HD800 is superior.


----------



## LugBug1

twoears said:


> This the HD800 appreciation thread. The HD800 is superior.


 
 +1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Also, I do believe that although Tyll rates the HD800 as the best dynamic hp available. His personal preference is for darker sound sigs like Audeze. The treble was a little too much for him subjectively, in his review.


----------



## scolaiw

From my own personal experience, the best dynamic headphones are easily the HD 800. Whilst the best planars are the Abyss and the best (currently still in production) electrostatics are the SR-009. 

 Comparing the three, I would place the HD 800 as being on par with the Abyss and the SR-009 as slightly above both.

 Having said that, I'd take the HD 800 any day.


----------



## Hun7er

I will give a feedback about the Abyss in a few day and compare it to my preferred headphone the HD800 haha


----------



## koiloco

Abyss driven by a Liquid Gold = great but IMO, a bit overpriced.  At that $ range, there're a lot of options that would give comparable or even better SQ, subjectively of course.


----------



## Hun7er

What could be better ?


----------



## TwoEars

hun7er said:


> What could be better ?


 
  
 Your own string quartet? The price isn't far off...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

well im pretty happy with my HE-6 right now and i would never consider getting an abyss + liquid gold, it definitely doesn't sound as good as it should.


----------



## preproman

hun7er said:


> What could be better ?


 
  
 Maybe, just maybe the SuSy Dynahi..


----------



## Hun7er

I do not know much about this Susy


----------



## icebear

twoears said:


> I believe Tyll of inner fidelity ranks the HD800 above the Abyss. He did an abyss review and didn't exactly shower it with praise while he still very much liked the HD800. Could be wrong here but that's what I got reading between the lines. But he's a HD800 fan...
> 
> Just shows how much personal preference plays a part at this level.


 

 Even if the Abyss was better and would cost "only the same" as the HD800, I wouldn't want to switch.
 Simple reason: weight.
  
 Even before sound quality, comfort is a critical "must have".
 At around 1.5 lb or 660grs (w/o cable) the Abyss is so heavy, I wouldn't be able to comfortably listen to them for an hour. That's a no go in my book. I am not sacrificing comfort over the last bit of SQ in return for a headache or muscle pain.


----------



## koiloco

@Dubstep Girl, got your car yet?


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco said:


> @Dubstep Girl, got your car yet?


 
 Boy did she!.....(Mercedes alert!)


----------



## 62ohm

icebear said:


> Even before sound quality, comfort is a critical "must have".


 
  
 +1. I used to think SQ is everything and comfort doesn't matter, until I put an RS-2i on my head. I couldn't wear them for more than 5 minutes before my ears started to deform. Right after that moment, I changed my priority, with comfort above SQ.


----------



## James-uk

62ohm said:


> +1. I used to think SQ is everything and comfort doesn't matter, until I put an RS-2i on my head. I couldn't wear them for more than 5 minutes before my ears started to deform. Right after that moment, I changed my priority, with comfort above SQ.



No headphones at all is amazing comfort! SQ not so good


----------



## Dubstep Girl

koiloco said:


> @Dubstep Girl, got your car yet?


 
  
 yes i did!!
  
 more pics on Glenn thread.


----------



## elvergun

dubstep girl said:


> yes i did!!
> 
> more pics on Glenn thread.


 
  
 Haha...no wonder you had to sell most of your headphones.
  
 Do you think you will buy any of those models after you recuperate from the car expense?


----------



## pdrm360

dubstep girl said:


> yes i did!!
> 
> more pics on Glenn thread.


 
  Congrats! It looks very nice!


----------



## pdrm360

elvergun said:


> Haha...no wonder you had to sell most of your headphones.
> 
> Do you think you will buy any of those models after you recuperate from the car expense?


 
  
 Hmm, I wonder how can we buy one of this cars by selling three or four pairs of headphones.


----------



## PleasantSounds

pdrm360 said:


> Hmm, I wonder how can we buy one of this cars by selling three or four pairs of headphones.


 
  
 It only needs to be enough for the downpayment


----------



## akhyar

Nice car DG.
Congrats! 

So what sound system you using on your Benz?


----------



## 62ohm

Exquisite car DG, congratulations!
  
 Is that the CLA?
  
 The HD800 is a beast you know (just to stay on topic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Maxvla

Forgot to post this here earlier. Just finished a comparison of the older M-Stage HPA-1 and the new M-Stage HPA-2 both with USB DACs.

For the time being my recommendation for anyone starting out with HD800 in mind or someone needing an inexpensive amp/DAC while playing musical chairs with high end gear is the M-Stage HPA-2. Amazing value combination with the HD800. If I had to, I could live with it and enjoy it. It's that good.

http://www.head-fi.org/products/matrix-m-stage-hpa-2-w-usb-dac/reviews/10470


----------



## TwoEars

icebear said:


> Even if the Abyss was better and would cost "only the same" as the HD800, I wouldn't want to switch.
> Simple reason: weight.
> 
> Even before sound quality, comfort is a critical "must have".
> At around 1.5 lb or 660grs (w/o cable) the Abyss is so heavy, I wouldn't be able to comfortably listen to them for an hour. That's a no go in my book. I am not sacrificing comfort over the last bit of SQ in return for a headache or muscle pain.


 
  
 Absolutely, comfort has become just as big a factor for me as sound quality.
  
 I often get email asking about the HE-500 and HD650 for some reason, probably because my HD650 review is up front and center and a lot of people are debating these two headphones.
  
 I always tell them the same thing; "yes, the HE-500 actually sounds slightly better. It's like the HD-650 on steroids. You get an amazing amount of sound quality for your money. Yes having owned both I would still pick the HD-650 simply because it's that much more comfortable, that much lighter and that much better built".
  
 (If Hifiman wants a bigger slice of the market this is were they need to improve IMHO. Their sound quality is already excellent for the money.)
  
 I use my headphones a lot. Sometimes I work from home and listen to music in the background, sometimes I watch movies with them, sometimes I game with them. The HD800's are perfect for all this, they are comfortable enough to wear all day and not think about them being there.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

62ohm said:


> Exquisite car DG, congratulations!
> 
> Is that the CLA?
> 
> ...


 
  
 yes it is! Its the new 2014 CLA 250. 


akhyar said:


> Nice car DG.
> Congrats!
> 
> So what sound system you using on your Benz?


 
  
 the Harman Kardon one included in the premium package. its actually pretty good, alot of people say it lacks bass but with no EQ, its just right for me. alot better sounding than the bose on my coworkers Maxima. 
  
 no plans for an aftermarket system as of now, the one the benz has right now is pretty decent overall. 
  


elvergun said:


> Haha...no wonder you had to sell most of your headphones.
> 
> Do you think you will buy any of those models after you recuperate from the car expense?


 
  
 yeah i think i will, but i'll also wait and see what new headphones are coming out. interested in the new he-560 thats supposed to come out soon, maybe an easier to drive he-6. i miss my headphones but also haven't used them as much since i got a job and maybe its better i only stick with a few since i don't have a ton of time to listen to music these days.


----------



## 62ohm

dubstep girl said:


> the Harman Kardon one included in the premium package. its actually pretty good, alot of people say it lacks bass but with no EQ, its just right for me. alot better sounding than the bose on my coworkers Maxima.


 
  
 I have a Bose system on my Alfa 159. Simply put, I rarely listen to my music with it, just radio (my music sounds very 'wrong' with it).


----------



## scolaiw

dubstep girl said:


> the Harman Kardon one included in the premium package. its actually pretty good, alot of people say it lacks bass but with no EQ, its just right for me. alot better sounding than the bose on my coworkers Maxima.


 

 I also have the Hardon option in my 2013 BMW X1. I have to say, it definitely sounds better at medium to loud volumes. Although I do miss the detail and airiness of the HD 800s on the go, overall it is still very fun and enjoyable on my drive to work and back. Especially with a sub-woofer under both front seats, you can actually "feel the music" like you never can with even the best headphones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I agree, it's perfect for me without EQ, but the fact that you can still EQ is always a bonus.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

62ohm said:


> I have a Bose system on my Alfa 159. Simply put, I rarely listen to my music with it, just radio (my music sounds very 'wrong' with it).


 
  
 i don't know whats wrong with the bose but it doesn't sound good. at lower volumes its ok but seems like it lacks clarity and at louder volumes its just way too bassy and muddy and then the mids/treble start to distort and sound bad. interesting cause at least with their headphones they don't distort the same way, they just have loose bass but other than that they actually sound ok.
  


scolaiw said:


> I also have the Hardon option in my 2013 BMW X1. I have to say, it definitely sounds better at medium to loud volumes. Although I do miss the detail and airiness of the HD 800s on the go, overall it is still very fun and enjoyable on my drive to work and back. Especially with a sub-woofer under both front seats, you can actually "feel the music" like you never can with even the best headphones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 yeah if i EQ it has alot more bass but for most things, flat sound great, with just enough bass and fun to listen to when i'm driving. it definitely isn't HD 800 sounding though, slightly more consumer-ish sounding, perhaps a more neutral version of a Fostex-TH900 with not as much treble and obviously not as good. 




  
 oooh and i didn't know the BMW used harman, i thought they used bang & olufsen. 
 btw, if the CLA class deal fell through, I would of probably gone for a 3 series beamer (The GLK class or the X1 series are nice as well but cost more)


----------



## preproman

dubstep girl said:


>


 
  
 You kept the HE-6 over the HD800 and LCDs?


----------



## PleasantSounds

dubstep girl said:


> oooh and i didn't know the BMW used harman, i thought they used bang & olufsen.
> btw, if the CLA class deal fell through, I would of probably gone for a 3 series beamer (The GLK class or the X1 series are nice as well but cost more)


 
  
 We're way off topic here, but I also have a HK system on my 5 series. B&O is offered as an upgrade and is noticeably better, but a car is by no means a concert hall. I prefer to spend the money on my home gear.
  
 Enjoy the CLA - it's an awesome car!


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> yes it is! Its the new 2014 CLA 250.
> 
> the Harman Kardon one included in the premium package. its actually pretty good, alot of people say it lacks bass but with no EQ, its just right for me. alot better sounding than the bose on my coworkers Maxima.
> 
> ...


 
 The he 560 is absolutely horrible looking. They seriously need to change that headband.


----------



## scolaiw

dubstep girl said:


> yeah if i EQ it has alot more bass but for most things, flat sound great, with just enough bass and fun to listen to when i'm driving. it definitely isn't HD 800 sounding though, slightly more consumer-ish sounding, perhaps a more neutral version of a Fostex-TH900 with not as much treble and obviously not as good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Totally agree. To be honest, whilst definitely a consumer-ish sound, it's quite on the neutral side. Good to see that the Hardon engineers aren't being complete pushovers. Haven't heard the TH900 (yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) but I would say maybe a slightly bassier JH-13 (not yet JH-16) and obviously not as good. 

 Now that you bring it up though, BMW have been using Harman for years. My parents had it in their 3 series way back in '99. I wasn't even aware that they were offering B&O. 

 Regardless, enjoy the new car and savour the new car smell whilst you still can!


----------



## magiccabbage

Anyone here heard the WA5 and DNA stratus with HD800?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Enjoy the car. It looks really nice. 
Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yes I have them. It's fine with tube upgrades 
But the wa22 is a bit better. 
The hd800 just ended a little EQ 
To be sweet. 
Al


----------



## palmfish

Congrats dubstep girl, the CLA is a pretty car for sure. I'm guessing the Director wasn't at work when you snapped that picture? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 P.S. For those that care, BMW enthusiasts refer to the cars as "Bimmers" and the motorcycles as "Beemers."


----------



## ALRAINBOW

So what is my super charged cooper works MINICOOPER 
Called. 

Al


----------



## TwoEars

alrainbow said:


> So what is my super charged cooper works MINICOOPER
> Called.
> 
> Al


 

 These days that's a "bimmer" too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Nice car though, used to own one. As fast as anything in the bends, but too noisy on the highway for me so I sold it.
  
 Are we off topic yet?
  
 HD800 is a great headphone, if you don't have it you should buy it. If you used to have it and sold it that was a mistake and you will forever ponder why you made that mistake. Because it was clearly you that were in error. There... saved the post.


----------



## eantala

scolaiw said:


> I also have the Hardon option in my 2013 BMW X1


 





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..anyway I saw that and had a chuckle what can I say Im like a kid.
  
 I have to admit though the factory audio systems are way better now at least they aren't unlistenable.  I think the stereo in my 335i is decent through the mids/highs at least for stock.  I added a JL audio 13w7.  I remember my first cars, the cars sucked and were unreliable and made in the 80's those stereos in them were total garbage.  Some cheap tape player with a 2 watt per channel power, In comparison todays factory stereos are leaps better.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

scolaiw said:


> Regardless, enjoy the new car and savour the new car smell whilst you still can!


 
  
 thanks everyone!! i'm really liking the new car, its hard not to speed in it though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 they drive sooo smooth! like u can be doing 100mph and it doesn't feel any different from going 60 or 80.
  
 happy the system sound good and isn't too bassy and muddy or overly bright and tinny. its hard to get a car system right, unless i boost the bass, theres like no resonance anywhere. i wonder how much different it is to damp a car vs. a headphone to avoid any ringing or resonances or anything.
  
  


preproman said:


> You kept the HE-6 over the HD800 and LCDs?


 
  
 yeah the HD 800 are great and all as well as the LCD-3, but the HE-6 seems like the better all rounder. and it works well with my music, so i just kept that and the th-900 as my work headphone, its very versatile since easy to drive and closed.
  
  


palmfish said:


> Congrats dubstep girl, the CLA is a pretty car for sure. I'm guessing the Director wasn't at work when you snapped that picture?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 lol yeah, that was off hours.
  
 so is it bimmer, beemer, or beamer? i just pronounce it "beamer".
  
 at least mercedes doesn't really have any nicknames, just benz or merc or whatever. and when i think of benz, i think of benzos as in xanax and valium


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> i think of benzos as in xanax and valium


 
 LOL, you need to put your Valium days behind you. We cant have particle collider technicians on Xanax either. Think of what would happen. ¬


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Do you use any EQ with the headphones. ? 

Al


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i don't believe in EQ.


----------



## Swolern

Well I'm back in the club. After selling my fist hd800 a little while ago I decided I can't live without them and bought my 2nd pair. After going through a few HPs, I decided the HD800 and the TH900 will be my end-game headphones. (for now, lol). They compliment each other so well as they are so very different and a master at its own specialty.


----------



## pdrm360

dubstep girl said:


> i don't believe in EQ.


 
  
 What do you mean?  EQ is not God.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

That is a mistake. And it is why you do not like some headphones. The art of EQ is not. Bout changing it for each song or even genre . It's about making the headphone like an hd800. And tune it a little to make it more appealing. To how you hear . There is no perfect can or speaker they all need something. Try this if you wish take you're he6 and do a 4 or 5 db cut at 140 and below. Just try it and hear just how articulate the bass becomes and does not boom as it does. It opens the soundstage as well. Try it and post what you think. I will not be insulted if you do not like it. 

Al


----------



## TwoEars

alrainbow said:


> That is a mistake. And it is why you do not like some headphones. The art of EQ is not. Bout changing it for each song or even genre . It's about making the headphone like an hd800. And tune it a little to make it more appealing. To how you hear . There is no perfect can or speaker they all need something. Try this if you wish take you're he6 and do a 4 or 5 db cut at 140 and below. Just try it and hear just how articulate the bass becomes and does not boom as it does. It opens the soundstage as well. Try it and post what you think. I will not be insulted if you do not like it.
> 
> Al


 
  
 +1
  
 It's a known problem that the HD800's can sound bright with many recordings. This is because the HD800 are extremely transparent and let even the tiniest bit of energy be transformed into sound, they are a nigh on perfect transducer. But since 99% of all recordings have been mastered with headphones less revealing than the HD800 no one ever notices any problems, until they put on the HD800's that is.
  
 If you don't like the HD800's try it them with a +3 bass boost and it's a bass heads dream. Try it with a -3 treble and it's no longer fatiguing. Vary in between to find your personal sweetspot and what's best for that recording.
  
 It always amuses me that people keep rolling $1000 sources, $1000 amps and $200 cables and see no problem with that.... but a +2dB bass boost.... no that heresy!!!


----------



## jackskelly

Oh, and I forgot to add that the HD 800 is far more comfortable than the SR-009 (although it's extremely comfortable), and I think that counts for something.


----------



## punit

twoears said:


> +1
> 
> It always amuses me that people keep rolling $1000 sources, $1000 amps and $200 cables and see no problem with that.... but a +2dB bass boost.... no that heresy!!!


 
 +2


----------



## BournePerfect

Because an amplifier is just a simple equalizer...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 -Daniel


----------



## Sorrodje

bourneperfect said:


> Because an amplifier is *not* just a simple equalizer...:rolleyes:
> 
> -Daniel




Fixed?


----------



## Sorrodje

That said, my Mind is not really done about this subject. I "feel" different amps bring something more complex than simple EQ but i'm not experienced enough to be sure. Headphone audio experience is not only a matter of Frequency response. it's a bit more complex so why EQ should be the only parameter to fix ? That's my question. 
  
 And this opinion doesn't mean I hate EQ. A point that impressed me each time is the HD800's sensitiveness to EQ  one or two db more or less at any frequence makes always listenable differences .  IMO HD800 is a kind of tool. You can use it and transform it as you like . Using EQ or amps or dac or mod or any unicorn stuff you want is a matter of personal opinion and taste. 
  
 @BournePerfect : NFB12.1 has arrived and Vali will be here soon too


----------



## TwoEars

sorrodje said:


> That said, my Mind is not really done about this subject. I "feel" different amps bring something more complex than simple EQ but i'm not experienced enough to be sure. Headphone audio experience is not only a matter of Frequency response. it's a bit more complex so why EQ should be the only parameter to fix ? That's my question.


 
  
 There's more to it than frequency response - absolutely.
  
 Re-verb, decay, harmonics.... some amps are fast... some are slow... etc.
  
 I'm just saying that it's sad to dismiss certain dac/amp/headphone combos just because they turn out a little bright and a simple EQ could have solved that in two seconds.
  
 Take my Anedio D1 & HD800 combo for instance. To me the combo is absolutely fantastic, there is so much detail and texture that it literally feels like I can reach out and touch the notes in front of me. However - the overall tone is a little on the bright side and can be fatiguing. So I made a gentle EQ curve where anything above 8k is -1 dB, anything over 10k is -2 dB and anything over 12k is -3dB... it's subtle but very effective and to me it brings the tone down to where is should be. Then for electronica I have a different preset with a +3dB bass boost, fantastic for trance/techno etc.
  
 Some people own different headphones and switch between them for different genres. They have grado's for rock, ultrasones for trance, sennheisers for classical etc. I find that the HD800's are so good that they just need a gentle EQ nudge and they can be perfect for anything.


----------



## Sorrodje

I think you're reasonnably perfectly right.
  
 But I know myself, i'm not reasonnable at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .  I'm sure that with an EQ i would always want to fix something during each tracks. I'm not mad enough to roll tubes on my amp for each genre but with an EQ i'm sure I would have me hands tied in the back to avoid touching the EQ...
  
 I really like to have several heapdhones because I consider that the headphone is not the center. Music is the most important thing. I have now enough different music to hear it during hours & hours but my brain is like a dog. my brain si used to travel in this music always by the same routes. Changing headphones is like changing routes. With My HD800 I tend to listen to particular music  and travel through my collection on the "HD800 highway" because this headphone magnifies some tracks/album/genre.  If I use my Ultrasone the travel will be very different even if I begin the travel from the same point.  My headphones are different boats and the music is the sea.  
  
 So i'm afraid using eg would tend to "normalize" headphones. it's not what I look for 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . I want to push my brain outside his habits and not to rebuild again and again the same audio environnement.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Dat 6 Khz


----------



## akhyar

fegefeuer said:


> ...
> 
> Dat 6 Khz


 
  
 I did mention in the HD800 certificate of frequency response thread that the newer HD800, i.e. s.no 20xxx and above more or less has this bump at 6 kHz.
 Maybe intentional by Sennheiser?


----------



## scolaiw

akhyar said:


> I did mention in the HD800 certificate of frequency response thread that the newer HD800, i.e. s.no 20xxx and above more or less has this bump at 6 kHz.
> Maybe intentional by Sennheiser?


 
  
 Funny you should say that. Mine is virtually identical to Fegefeuer's except for 6k....


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Hello all. EQ is for all of us, I know how you all feel about trying to stay pure and all. There is no pure. Everything we listen to has been EQ , compressed a few times during the recording process. It even goes from dsd to analog and back a few times as well. As there is now way of EQ or modding the sound in dsd . So what I am proposing is try it. I am annoying some people here and that is fine. I am not looking to covert just open up some peoples here ears a little. My office rig is really expensive by most standars but instill use the EQ . Even on dsd 128. Why it's the cans and over all sound sig I am looking to tailor for me. It is a shame we buy all this expensive equipment and have no dad at all. There was a time no one would by a preamp with out the basic treble and bass and if it was the better mocdles you had a mid as well. Some people here approach this thought as un pure and altering the recording. Well not one of us was there when they mixed it. And the headphones and or speakers they used to mix are cheaper then what we use to listen to it. 
For us that have cars or small home radio,s even a Bose . Don't you notice that most all music sounds the same on them. This is because they limit what sounds get reproduced .
We do not so all sounds come through even the ones the recording engineer did not even notice or hear. What I would really like to see is an EQ thread for us all. 

And here is a another bit of info. We cannot hear a 1 or most us even 2 db cutt or increase. And I know the golden ear people will say they hear a 1/2 db bull. Only with speakers can I hear about 2 db for sure and with headphones not reall. This is why I say if you cut start at 3 db the same goes for increase. We have been dipped into thinking all of our equipment is all perfect and maybe even though it is not it's close. But we do not hear that way at all. And as indivuals it's even more changed. It's a shame we all buy expensive products and do not try to get the most out of them by buying even more accessories to try and change the sound. I laugh at that when we all have EQ right there. But no we cannot we need to go spend 300 more on a wire that will give more sound stage or whatever that claims to do and of course we all hear the change right. Well the EQ is there and if you think I am wrong get someone to help and do a blind fold and chNge the EQ . No one here will hear a change of anything less or increase of two db. Even though 3 db is a crease or decrease of 50% in change . We do not here flat . For those who nay fine . But for the people who will try it. Do it , but be stuck in a rut of supposed perfection where there is none to be had in the forts place . And if you think your amp is neutral it is not but I can say I own the hdvd800. And weather I use the dac inside or 40 k dac with the hd800 it's is overwhelmingly bright. And I am 57 years old too. 
Ok bring on the bashes now ! 
Al


----------



## paradoxper

I, for one, enjoyed your slurred speech, Al!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Lol I know I stink at writing , I don't use glasses and I rarely proof. My advice is get through it some where in there is some good comments though . Can you believe I am a college grad and American. But overall I am getting better .lmao. 
Ps headphone graphs are really not to usefull take the whole LCD group as they all have very similar graphs but sound very different . 
Al


----------



## paradoxper

alrainbow said:


> Lol I know I stink at writing , I don't use glasses and I rarely proof. My advice is get through it some where in there is some good comments though . Can you believe I am a college grad and American. But overall I am getting better .lmao.
> Ps headphone graphs are really not to usefull take the whole LCD group as they all have very similar graphs but sound very different .
> Al


 
 Na. I figured it was early AM and you were enjoying some beverages. Heed your words, or at least that which can be parsed.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Thanks and yes I do wake slowly with a large coffee. 

Al


----------



## scolaiw

> Originally Posted by *ALRAINBOW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Quote
> ...


 

 
*rant*
 /rænt/
_verb_

 *1*.
  speak or shout at length in an angry, impassioned way.
"she was still *ranting on* about the unfairness of it all"


 

 *2*.
  ALRAINBOW
  


 








 

 I agree, EQ is great for tailoring music to your own tastes; however, one must bear in mind that headphones, amps, tubes, dacs and everything else in the chain often have many more qualities that fall outside the frequency curve like soundstage, decay, transients, speed, etc. Thus, it would be wise to bear in mind that the use of EQ is not the be all and end all.

 EQ is not so much a solution as it is a bandaid.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Understand I am not ranting. I am simply go right back at people's ideals that many others read . As such people who come here to,learn and read I NEVER use EQ. Just hurts the greater good here. I posted this because of people who are so dead against this that equivalent the raping the music . If this fits a rant then what do you consider your stance . I am not going to use words the elevate this to an argument. But your choice is yours but nothing we do in absolute. And amps and dacs do change the sound as you stated . And EQ does effect the overall sound. And maybe to your benifits if you tried it. I also staed not to use this EQ as a be all end all by genre . It is simply to change that particular can you or one of us has and tune it to our overall liking. 

Here is some examples to maybe make it better for to believe in. 

The LCD,s compared to the he 6. Did you know that with a little EQ they sound very simaler . Just try it


----------



## nigeljames

Maybe some people, like myself, don't use eq basically because they can't. 
  
 My main system is not computer based so to use an equalizer would mean purchasing one and then adding it to my system chain with the negative effects that would bring to my system.


----------



## PleasantSounds

scolaiw said:


> EQ is not so much a solution as it is a bandaid.


 
  
 I could agree with that statement, but the "bandaid" needs to be qualified: we're not necessarily are trying to remedy the gear deficiencies, but the flaws of our own hearing. And the problem is not only the often seen here "everyone hears difefrently". More importantly we have to EQ to compensate for our hearing sensitivity changing with the SPL. Some of you may be familiar with this graph:

 What it is showing is that our perception of equal loudness changes with the volume. This means that every time we adjust the volume, the perceived frequency response of our system changes.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

now this is healty discussion and there should be a sticky for how to eq we all want the best and part of it is eq . i have my collection of ciem,s almost all i use eq and the ones i do not i use as a referance and listen for just how therecording is without it then i use that to adjust the others now given any eq can be done wrong or right but it sholud be done in most casses to begin with all of the daps we own have eq . who here uses it ??
we need to list some eq setups . we do this with our equiment why not our adjustments too we post wasapi for foobar and our formats there are plenty of new members that need some guidence.
al


----------



## Mambosenior

alrainbow said:


> Hello all. EQ is for all of us, I know how you all feel about trying to stay pure and all. There is no pure. Everything we listen to has been EQ , compressed a few times during the recording process. It even goes from dsd to analog and back a few times as well. As there is now way of EQ or modding the sound in dsd . So what I am proposing is try it. I am annoying some people here and that is fine. I am not looking to covert just open up some peoples here ears a little. My office rig is really expensive by most standars but instill use the EQ . Even on dsd 128. Why it's the cans and over all sound sig I am looking to tailor for me. It is a shame we buy all this expensive equipment and have no dad at all. There was a time no one would by a preamp with out the basic treble and bass and if it was the better mocdles you had a mid as well. Some people here approach this thought as un pure and altering the recording. Well not one of us was there when they mixed it. And the headphones and or speakers they used to mix are cheaper then what we use to listen to it.
> For us that have cars or small home radio,s even a Bose . Don't you notice that most all music sounds the same on them. This is because they limit what sounds get reproduced .
> We do not so all sounds come through even the ones the recording engineer did not even notice or hear. What I would really like to see is an EQ thread for us all.
> 
> ...




Well stated. Thank you. I haven't needed EQ for the 800 but have used it to bring up bass on AKG 702 without feeling guilty...at all! Every HP can use a tug here or there without losing its integrity. (My face could certainly use same!)


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Thanks. I am glad there are people on both sides of this. We get caught up on the perfection bandwagon and in the end cheat ourselves of getting closer to perfection I our ideals 

Al


----------



## Sorrodje

pleasantsounds said:


>


 
  
 I've seen many times this graph but can you tell me where i can found more analysis about this subject ?


----------



## MickeyVee

+1 I've tried it on many occasions and pretty much every time, even with minimum EQ, SQ is degraded. YMMV.
 Quote:


dubstep girl said:


> i don't believe in EQ.


----------



## TwoEars

> As such people who come here to,learn and read I NEVER use EQ. Just hurts the greater good here. I posted this because of people who are so dead against this that equivalent the raping the music . If this fits a rant then what do you consider your stance . I am not going to use words the elevate this to an argument. But your choice is yours but nothing we do in absolute. And amps and dacs do change the sound as you stated . And EQ does effect the overall sound. And maybe to your benifits if you tried it. I also staed not to use this EQ as a be all end all by genre . It is simply to change that particular can you or one of us has and tune it to our overall liking.


 
  
 More than anything I think people just should remember to have FUN.
  
 Music is about having fun and having new experiences, you shouldn't take it too seriously.
  
 The day you start saying "It has to sound like that, this sound is wrong, that setup is not how the artist intended it etc etc" you're taking it all way too seriously.
 EQ, or no EQ, find something that sounds good to you and which you're happy with, sit back, enjoy, that's what it's all about


----------



## Sorrodje

twoears said:


> EQ, or no EQ, find something that sounds good to you and which you're happy with, sit back, enjoy, that's what it's all about


 
  
 This !


----------



## palmfish

I think that what many people define as amplifier speed, soundstage, decay, etc. can often be attributed to EQ. When you alter the frequency response, the nature and amount of frequency masking changes, as does propogation. These (and other factors) will influence the perception of soundstage, attack, decay, etc.
  
 For example, you may not necessarily hear a high-Q 1dB boost at 8kHz as being brighter, but you might perceive the overall effect as more spacious sounding.
  
 It is also why reducing the low frequencies with EQ often makes it sound like your headphones are brighter - even though you didn't change the high frequencies.
  
 I could go on about psychoacoustics all day long but I will simply say that I believe our brains have a remarkable plasticity and what we "hear" isn't necessarily what we are hearing.


----------



## koiloco

twoears said:


> More than anything I think people just should remember to have FUN.
> 
> Music is about having fun and having new experiences, you shouldn't take it too seriously.
> 
> ...


 

 +1 I couldn't have said it any better.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Palmfish I agree. It is so hard to make people know that we all here different and explain to use the controls we have to our benifit. 

Al


----------



## PleasantSounds

sorrodje said:


> I've seen many times this graph but can you tell me where i can found more analysis about this subject ?


 
  
 You can start at Wikipedia - plenty of good links from there.


----------



## scolaiw

palmfish said:


> reducing the low frequencies with EQ often makes it sound like your headphones are brighter - even though you didn't change the high frequencies.


 

 When I turn down the hot water tap in the shower, it feels like it get super cold! Even though I didn't change the cold water tap! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I agree that EQ may have some slight effects on things like soundstage, attack and decay, but different drivers have inherent physical and mechanical differences that make it impossible to tune a Stax SR-009 to sound identical to an HD 800 even with the best equalizer in the world. 

 The name equalizer is really a misnomer.


----------



## TwoEars

scolaiw said:


> The name equalizer is really a misnomer.


 
  
 Dequalizer?


----------



## palmfish

scolaiw said:


> I agree that EQ may have some slight effects on things like soundstage, attack and decay, but different drivers have inherent physical and mechanical differences that make it impossible to tune a Stax SR-009 to sound identical to an HD 800 even with the best equalizer in the world.




Are you saying my dream of turning my Portapros into an Orpheus clone using tin foil and duct tape is doomed to fail?


----------



## scolaiw

palmfish said:


> Are you saying my dream of turning my Portapros into an Orpheus clone using tin foil and duct tape is doomed to fail?


 

 Hahahaha, of course not! Everyone on head-fi knows, the real solution is cables! Use the right 99.999999999999999% pure ultra-conducive unobtanium cables and you can make your Portapros morph into your own personal string quartet if you wanted. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, and don't forget to go balanced!


----------



## Sorrodje

Thank you for the morning Laugh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## TheDuke990

scolaiw said:


> Hahahaha, of course not! Everyone on head-fi knows, the real solution is cables! Use the right 99.999999999999999% pure ultra-conducive unobtanium cables and you can make your Portapros morph into your own personal string quartet if you wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  




  
 But one serious question. Is there really an audible difference between balanced and unbalanced by using the same amp like Bryston BHA-1 ?


----------



## scolaiw

sorrodje said:


> Thank you for the morning Laugh
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 






theduke990 said:


> But one serious question. Is there really an audible difference between balanced and unbalanced by using the same amp like Bryston BHA-1 ?


 

 Honestly, yes. For me, switching from unbalanced to balanced and back has a noticeable difference. To roughly quantify, I'd say roughly similar to the amount of change noticeable from a tube change. Much more so than say switching between a copper and a silver (but otherwise identical) cable, which to me sounds so very very slightly different, that I'm about 95% sure that it's placebo.


----------



## pdrm360

scolaiw said:


> Honestly, yes. For me, switching from unbalanced to balanced and back has a noticeable difference. To roughly quantify, I'd say roughly similar to the amount of change noticeable from a tube change. Much more so than say switching between a copper and a silver (but otherwise identical) cable, which to me sounds so very very slightly different, that I'm about 95% sure that it's placebo.


 
  
 Are you talking about unbalanced and balanced on the same amp?


----------



## scolaiw

pdrm360 said:


> Are you talking about unbalanced and balanced on the same amp?


 

 Yes it was on the LAu. I was using the Abyss, which comes with a very well made balanced cable and unbalanced adapter as stock and I definitely noticed a difference. Having said that, I believe the single ended output is converted into the balanced circuitry internally using a chip which (in theory) could potentially be what's causing the difference. I highly doubt that the Abyss is THAT revealing, or that the chip used was THAT terrible.


----------



## TheDuke990

scolaiw said:


> Honestly, yes. For me, switching from unbalanced to balanced and back has a noticeable difference. To roughly quantify, I'd say roughly similar to the amount of change noticeable from a tube change. Much more so than say switching between a copper and a silver (but otherwise identical) cable, which to me sounds so very very slightly different, that I'm about 95% sure that it's placebo.


 
  
 Thanks !
 And which one sounds better for you ?


----------



## scolaiw

theduke990 said:


> Thanks !
> And which one sounds better for you ?


 
  
 Balanced, for sure.


----------



## Sorrodje

scolaiw said:


> Balanced, for sure.


 
  
  
 The most expensive , the better .. always!


----------



## scolaiw

sorrodje said:


> The most expensive , the better .. always!


 

 Spot on! You wouldn't want to have it any other way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Furthermore, I should add that when I made the comparison, I wasn't employing any degree of volume matching and balanced outputs are generally higher gain than single ended outputs. Thus it goes without saying that perhaps I was just listening to a louder version of the same thing and as is human nature, just preferred the louder one.


----------



## Sorrodje

ABX and egalized volumes are the only way to have an objective answer. besides that, welcome in a subjective world, full of very enjoyable autobias. 
  
 All what matters in fine is pleasure. the only rational way of spending money


----------



## TwoEars

sorrodje said:


> The most expensive , the better .. always!


 
  
 I have my own theory on all this:


----------



## Sorrodje

LOL !  Do you permit a free use of this pic ?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

My take on this is cables to matter but not much. The same for balanced in most cases there is no audible sound quality increase .. Given the increase in going from SE TO BAL is about 4 times the power. So unless you used a cal mic it's all subjective to louder is better. Now if the headphone is say a power hungry he6 then it would yield and increase in SQ due to the fact the he 6 would get an increase in power and sound better if underwhelmed before. We all want to hear where our money went and I too have a large collection of balanced cables all made of pure silver one draw bla bla bla. 
I got all my cables from Ted Allen headphone lounge. Anyway they look cool though. But EQ changes everything and it is a must to play with. But I do understand the stigma of trying it. And it is why I have gone around to posting about it. 
I guess I know how a preacher must feel as most just tell NO . Lol

Al


----------



## punit

Question on Head fi:
  
 My HD 800 is a bit bright sounding on my Woo WA6 , I am using xxx tubes ? Anyone face this problem ?
  
 Perfectly Respectable reply :
  
 Why don't you roll zzz tube , it will make the sound warmer .
  
  
 Non- Respectable reply :
  
 Why don't you try an EQ cut of -2 db at 6 Khz.
  




  
 Just for info , I try one or both & see which works better for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 & yes I do know that  tube rolling is not just simple EQ adjustment. If it was, I wouldn't have bought the 20-25 odd tubes that I own but sometimes the simplest solution is the best one. IMHO.
  
 I mentioned HD 800 in my post, so I guess this isn't off topic


----------



## TwoEars

sorrodje said:


> LOL !  Do you permit a free use of this pic ?


 

 Knock yourself out


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Tube rolling I feel
Is not enough instead of trying different tubes use the EQ 
And 3 db might not be enough. 
As for tubes you want fast bright tubes that it looks like you 
Have them. If you tube roll you might end up 
With slower tubes and loose definition 

I would try EQ but just the 6 k might not be the only point to try 8 or 10 k
As well. Keep in mind people point to the 6 k bump as the point to go to 
But that really is upper mids. Treble hurts our ears more but also gets us the staging 
And air around the music. As for the amount 
I would try 6 db and when it helps reg the correct freq 
Then back it down from there 
Al


----------



## punit

Just to clarify, In my above post I just referred to HD 800 as a random example. I do not find them bright at all, a bit lean some times (depending on the amp and / or tube), but never bright.


----------



## icebear

twoears said:


> I have my own theory on all this:


 
  
 +1. There is nothing better than a sound scientific analysis ))


----------



## WNBC

Can you also put "age" on the X-axis 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 Quote:


twoears said:


> I have my own theory on all this:


----------



## SuPrbly

Just got my HD800's in the mail.. One thing I can say right off is these things are SEXY!! and bigger than I thought.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Every thing is bigger with those headphones 
Enjoy and ask questions and read 
Al


----------



## SuPrbly

Also @ALRAINBOW for me personally I never EQ anything because the fun of this hobby is getting gear and appreciating the sound of the particular gear you have just purchased. I don't think theres anything wrong with EQ, but I much rather do research here on head-fi and other related sites to see what users are liking with my phones and amps that I own. So basically for me it's the journey to find a better system than my current system and EQing for me take a lot of the fun out of this hobby.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I can see your point but at my age I just want to hear the music and enjoy it now 
I have spent about 200k in Hifi over about five years and I am tired of all the complications 
And the constant search for better. Is just overwhelming 
So a short cut to EQ is fine by me. As long as you know the amp is neutral and I have enough amps to know and 
A really good DAC in the front end to tell you of My changes down the path to your ears 
Al


----------



## TwoEars

alrainbow said:


> I can see your point but at my age I just want to hear the music and enjoy it now
> I have spent about 200k in Hifi over about five years and I am tired of all the complications
> And the constant search for better. Is just overwhelming
> So a short cut to EQ is fine by me. As long as you know the amp is neutral and I have enough amps to know and
> ...


 
  
 I'm thankful that I like tweaking my equipment and figuring out what works, but that I also can flip a switch and just enjoy the music.
  
 I'm not pointing at you but some guys seem to get stuck in this endless tweaking cycle and I can see very strong parallels to a special kind of car enthusiast.
  
 Some car enthusiasts like to drive their cars, some like to maintain them and drive them, some like to modify them and then drive them.
  
 But then you get a special breed of car enthusiast who will spend 2 years in his basement rebuilding or restoring his dream car. But once it's finished he'll drive it around the block for two laps before he puts it up for sale...
  
 Maybe he has just as much fun as the guys driving their cars? I don't know, I'm not that kind of guy so I wouldn't know.
  
 But if a little bit of EQ is all it takes for someone to enjoy the equipment they've got, instead of being frustrated with it. To me, and from my perspective, that's a 100% super-easy "just go for it" kind of deal.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

It's all about our mood at the time. I think we all have at least a few of us inside 

Al


----------



## pdrm360

twoears said:


> I have my own theory on all this:


 
  
 + 0.75


----------



## Amictus

You know; I think we just need to respect each other. I just want to enjoy the music - sometimes. I get high on the sound - sometimes. My fascination for the sound has led me to different sorts - of music. And my love of music has taken me down different sorts of sound. I believe in cables, and bit-depth that I can't hear; and I don't mind that people who have studied it all on paper think that it's not true. I don't own the truth, and neither do they, but we all have the gifts of music and beauty, thanks to each other, and, on this forum, we share it across continents... and if this wasn't the HD800 Appreciation Thread, I would say that that is some Schiit. Thank you, dear friends.


----------



## philo50

amictus said:


> You know; I think we just need to respect each other. I just want to enjoy the music - sometimes. I get high on the sound - sometimes. My fascination for the sound has led me to different sorts - of music. And my love of music has taken me down different sorts of sound. I believe in cables, and bit-depth that I can't hear; and I don't mind that people who have studied it all on paper think that it's not true. I don't own the truth, and neither do they, but we all have the gifts of music and beauty, thanks to each other, and, on this forum, we share it across continents... and if this wasn't the HD800 Appreciation Thread, I would say that that is some Schiit. Thank you, dear friends.


 
 nicely said


----------



## ALRAINBOW

What happened ??

Al


----------



## SuPrbly

I agree Amictus, we all have a common bond Music. We are all individual self thinking humans, the beauty of this is, we will all have varying opinions of what sounds good and what does not based on our on perception of music and frame of reference from our own lives.This is what makes good conversation and learning possible!!


----------



## mediumraresteak

Just received my HD800 (serial 26XXX) and really enjoying the combo with my WA7.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I had that combo it's sweet. Enjoy
Al


----------



## akhyar

mediumraresteak said:


> Just received my HD800 (serial 26XXX) and really enjoying the combo with my WA7.




I have the same combo as yours since Christmas.
Do try the upgraded EH tubes if you have not done so


----------



## mediumraresteak

akhyar said:


> I have the same combo as yours since Christmas.
> Do try the upgraded EH tubes if you have not done so


 
 I just got them today as well .  Going to listen to stock for a bit and then switch to hear the difference.  What benefits do you see from the EH tubes?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I sold the amp. But the tubes make a big chNge for the better. It makes it more clearer and feh base more defined. It's well worth the 100 for the tubes. Also get a spair set too there is only so many to be had . No new stock . Get the ones from woo gold tips. 

Al


----------



## SuPrbly

mediumraresteak said:


> Just received my HD800 (serial 26XXX) and really enjoying the combo with my WA7.


 
 Congrats I just got mine as well, my WA7 will not be here for a couple weeks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 They sound awesome to me in this not so awesome setup they are a little tiresome in this setup though. Come on WA7!!!


----------



## willjbryan

After giving my ears a nasty dose of tinnitus and noise-induced hearing loss using the hd800 with various amps, I've reverted to plugging them directly into my iphone 5 headphone jack. Works surprisingly well for me - the iPhone's 1v output drives the hd800 to 102 decibels, or way louder than I should be listening to it. Still need to eq the treble, though!


----------



## Swolern




----------



## mediumraresteak

suprbly said:


> Congrats I just got mine as well, my WA7 will not be here for a couple weeks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 As mentioned before, I highly recommend getting the EH tubes if you can.  Completely refines the sound and detail retrieval more so with the HD800.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

EH TUBES ?

Al


----------



## pdrm360

alrainbow said:


> EH TUBES ?
> 
> Al


 
  
 The tubes upgrade for the WA7 (Electro Harmonix 6C45)


----------



## ALRAINBOW

The gold ones I had ok. All this lingo I am to old to get with this LOL

al


----------



## pdrm360

alrainbow said:


> The gold ones I had ok. All this lingo I am to old to get with this LOL
> 
> al


 
 Yep the gold plated ones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 How is the WA5 for the HD800?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I really thought it would not make any difference like wires . But wow it made an improvement right away. Easy to hear. 

Al


----------



## SuPrbly

mediumraresteak said:


> As mentioned before, I highly recommend getting the EH tubes if you can.  Completely refines the sound and detail retrieval more so with the HD800.


 
 Oh yea! I'm not even going to put the stocks in at all, going straight for the EH upgrade.


----------



## 62ohm

WA7 sounds like a damn good price/performance dac/amp contender for HD800.. Should I abandon my plan of getting the WA2 and get the WA7 instead?


----------



## kazsud

62ohm said:


> WA7 sounds like a damn good price/performance dac/amp contender for HD800.. Should I abandon my plan of getting the WA2 and get the WA7 instead?



 


I would go w/ the Wa2. It sound way more solid compared to the Wa7.


----------



## kazsud

pdrm360 said:


> Yep the gold plated ones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


The hd800 + Wa5 is incredible.


----------



## pdrm360

kazsud said:


> pdrm360 said:
> 
> 
> > Yep the gold plated ones.
> ...


 
  
 How is the WA5 in compare to the WA22?


----------



## Sonido

62ohm said:


> WA7 sounds like a damn good price/performance dac/amp contender for HD800.. Should I abandon my plan of getting the WA2 and get the WA7 instead?



You pay for ease of use and versatility with the WA7. It's good with all headphones from sensitive IEMs, to high impedance dynamics like HD800, to some planers, but not really excellent for anything. The WA2 sucks for IEMs and planers and low impedance headphones in general, but is excellent for high impedance headphones like HD800. Also the DAC in the WA7 is comparable to a $200-300 DAC. If you plan to use only for HD800, I'd get the WA2.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Here is the deal. I have both amps and all upgraded tubes for all. The wa22 is just the best with headphones. Not so with iems . And not for the HE6. I bought the WA5 for the HE6. 

Hands down the 22 beats with the hd800. But the wa7 has it all in one. And sounds good with everything. So looking for -a two in one the wa7 is it. And you can use a seperate dac as well . 
But the only way to use the wa22 is in balanced mode. It makes a big difference .

Al


----------



## pdrm360

alrainbow said:


> Here is the deal. I have both amps and all upgraded tubes for all. The wa22 is just the best with headphones. Not so with iems . And not for the HE6. I bought the WA5 for the HE6.
> 
> Hands down the 22 beats with the hd800. But the wa7 has it all in one. And sounds good with everything. So looking for -a two in one the wa7 is it. And you can use a seperate dac as well .
> But the only way to use the wa22 is in balanced mode. It makes a big difference .
> ...


 
  
 So for the HD800: WA22 > WA5 > WA2 > WA7, correct?


----------



## Sonido

This just shows how much subjectivity matters. Koiloco has WA22 running with balanced HD800 as well, yet he still shares his head time with the HE-500 and Emotiva MiniX. I have the HE-500 and MiniX as well, yet I haven't touched it in weeks, and I'm running the HD800 through merely a Crack.


----------



## koiloco

alrainbow said:


> Here is the deal. I have both amps and all upgraded tubes for all. The wa22 is just the best with headphones. Not so with iems . And not for the HE6. I bought the WA5 for the HE6.
> 
> Hands down the 22 beats with the hd800. But the wa7 has it all in one. And sounds good with everything. So looking for -a two in one the wa7 is it. And you can use a seperate dac as well .
> *But the only way to use the wa22 is in balanced mode. It makes a big difference .*
> ...


 
 +1
 and it's not about balanced vs unbalanced here.  The WA22 is just designed in a way that unbalanced connection doesn't give you 100% potential of the amp.  Go with some other cheaper Woo if you don't plan to run the WA22 balanced.


----------



## pdrm360

sonido said:


> *This just shows how much subjectivity matters.* Koiloco has WA22 running with balanced HD800 as well, yet he still shares his head time with the HE-500 and Emotiva MiniX. I have the HE-500 and MiniX as well, yet I haven't touched it in weeks, and I'm running the HD800 through merely a Crack.


 
 As always!


----------



## pdrm360

I guess you use it in balanced mode, correct?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

He is correct. The wa5 is fine but the wa22 is better. I have owned all at the same time. I did go back and forth. 

Wa5' wa22 , and wa 7. I also own the WES. but that is another story. 

For the money the WA7 is fine. And the dac is not so great but you can feed the amp separately. So in the end it's by far the best deal. But the WA22. Is not cool with iems,s either. Only the wa7 is all around. 

Now the HE6 and most headphones and the wa22 is good with most headphones but not so with iems. And like others said wa22 balanced only. That is it's virtue. I think this is why the wa5 is not as good. 

Ask questions there seems to be some people that know about these amps pretty good as much as we all don't say the exactly the same I still agree with them all.
Al


----------



## koiloco

pdrm360 said:


> I guess you use it in balanced mode, correct?


 

 Yes.
 As you know, I bought a turntable recently that of course only has RCA out.  Hooking up the TT to WA22's unbalanced input directly = not so good.  For now, I have to route the TT's USB output through my computer => DAC=> WA22's balanced input when listening to vinyl.  However, this chain is not 100% analog.  I have purchased a preamp that has balanced out and phono in so I can do TT => pre-amp=> WA22.  The preamp is coming next Monday. 
 I was seriously considering selling the WA22 and go for either WA2 or WA6SE to avoid the balanced requirement of the WA22 but I really love the WA22/HD800 combo therefore I went the preamp route instead.  The preamp will give me much flexibility in routing signal from computer and my other sources as well.
  
http://www.parasound.com/vintage/p3.php
  
 They have a newer model P5 but I got too good of a deal on the P3 to pass it up.


----------



## pdrm360

koiloco said:


> Yes.
> As you know, I bought a turntable recently that of course only has RCA out.  Hooking up the TT to WA22's unbalanced input directly = not so good.  For now, I have to route the TT's USB output through my computer => DAC=> WA22's balanced input when listening to vinyl.  However, this chain is not 100% analog.  I have purchased a preamp that has balanced out and phono in so I can do TT => pre-amp=> WA22.  The preamp is coming next Monday.
> I was seriously considering selling the WA22 and go for either WA2 or WA6SE to avoid the balanced requirement of the WA22 but I really love the WA22/HD800 combo therefore I went the preamp route instead.  The preamp will give me much flexibility in routing signal from computer and my other sources as well.
> 
> ...


 
 Oh, I see.


----------



## kazsud

pdrm360 said:


> How is the WA5 in compare to the WA22?




I didn't like the Wa22 w/ hd800


----------



## pdrm360

Everyone hears things differently and has different personal taste.


----------



## pdrm360

kazsud said:


> I didn't like the Wa22 w/ hd800


 
 Thanks for sharing your impression.


----------



## koiloco

pdrm360 said:


> Everyone hears things differently and has different personal taste.


 

 +1.  The world would be too boring if we were all the same.  What's there to talk about, right?


----------



## 62ohm

Listening to Hotel California from the album Hell Freezes Over never ceases to amaze me on how spacious the soundstage of these cans actually is. And I'm using only the WA3


----------



## pdrm360

62ohm said:


> Listening to Hotel California from the album Hell Freezes Over never ceases to amaze me on how spacious the soundstage of these cans actually is. And I'm using only the WA3


 
  
 The WA3 does at least 90% of the WA2's job, IMO.


----------



## pdrm360

koiloco said:


> +1.  The world would be too boring if we were all the same.  What's there to talk about, right?


 
  
 +1 right!


----------



## BournePerfect

kazsud said:


> pdrm360 said:
> 
> 
> > Yep the gold plated ones.
> ...


 
 I wasn't impressed...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## longbowbbs

bourneperfect said:


> kazsud said:
> 
> 
> > pdrm360 said:
> ...


 
 Daniel, have you found anything better than the ZDSE for the HD800's?


----------



## pdrm360

longbowbbs said:


> Daniel, have you found anything better than the ZDSE for the HD800's?


 





  I'm looking for a good upgrade from Schiit Lyr.


----------



## BournePerfect

longbowbbs said:


> Daniel, have you found anything better than the ZDSE for the HD800's?


 
  
 Nothing in my profile comes close. The Leviathan will deliver in spades though-my end game amp. I also am planning on a Ragnarok as an ss option-here's hoping it pairs with the HD800 better than the MJ.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Dillan

There are a lot of SS options for the 800, I have been wanting a high end ss to compliment my Woo, but I just don't know which yet.
  
 It's a good thing and a bad thing.


----------



## koiloco

dillan said:


> There are a lot of SS options for the 800, I have been wanting a high end ss to compliment my Woo, but I just don't know which yet.
> 
> It's a good thing and a bad thing.


 
 When you figure one out, please share.  I am going into the same direction soon.


----------



## Maxvla

If trying to stay around the WA2's price, Bryston BHA-1, or wait for Ragnarok to be finished and see what consensus is with HD800 pairing.


----------



## SuPrbly

I read an article on audio360, which said, the Lehmann Audio Linear has a good synergy with the HD800, but I have not personally heard this combo.


----------



## SuPrbly

..And its Solid State.


----------



## Maxvla

suprbly said:


> I read an article on audio360, which said, the Lehmann Audio Linear has a good synergy with the HD800, but I have not personally heard this combo.



M-Stage HPA-2 is a clone of this amp and supposedly offers similar sound at less than 1/5 the price. ($280 vs $1500)


----------



## Sonido

dillan said:


> There are a lot of SS options for the 800, I have been wanting a high end ss to compliment my Woo, but I just don't know which yet.
> 
> It's a good thing and a bad thing.


 

 Speaking of SS with HD800, I've been looking at the Questyle CMA 800R, which was built with the HD800 in mind. I too am looking for a leaner, airy complement to my Quickie+Crack warm pairing with my HD800. One good thing is reviewers have said while SS and very accurate and detail oriented, it does not make the HD800 sound analytical or lifeless. I can get it for only $1000 right now (normal price $1500). Anyone have any experience with that amp?


----------



## akhyar

^
 I've also read reviews that the so-called clone of the Lehman, the Matrix M-Stage is a good SS amp for < than $300


----------



## akhyar

sonido said:


> Speaking of SS with HD800, I've been looking at the Questyle CMA 800R, which was built with the HD800 in mind. I too am looking for a leaner, airy complement to my Quickie+Crack warm pairing with my HD800. One good thing is reviewers have said while SS and very accurate and detail oriented, it does not make the HD800 sound analytical or lifeless. I can get it for only $1000 right now (normal price $1500). Anyone have any experience with that amp?


 
  
 Or you can buy 2 of them run it balance with HD800


----------



## SuPrbly

Really!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I may just have to check that out!


----------



## Sonido

akhyar said:


> Or you can buy 2 of them run it balance with HD800


 

 You guys are horrible..


----------



## Dillan

So many options, I will try to share my experiences.
  
 With how picky the HD 800 is, it makes it a very tough journey.

 But obviously well worth it.


----------



## magiccabbage

bourneperfect said:


> Nothing in my profile comes close. The Leviathan will deliver in spades though-my end game amp. I also am planning on a Ragnarok as an ss option-here's hoping it pairs with the HD800 better than the MJ.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 Have you heard the DNA Stratus/HD800? it looks like im heading that way myself. Hopefully sometime after the summer.


----------



## MickeyVee

With all this talk of Woo in the last few pages, any thoughts on the WA6 (with the Sophia Princess)? WA6 vs WA7 (amp section only)?


----------



## BournePerfect

magiccabbage said:


> Have you heard the DNA Stratus/HD800? it looks like im heading that way myself. Hopefully sometime after the summer.


 
  
 I have not-but reports are that it is truly excellent with the HD800. If I weren't getting the Levi, and the EC2A3x4 wasn't an option-the Stratus would be my first choice. It's also the cheapest of the bunch, and I almost placed an order myself about a year ago.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## scolaiw

mickeyvee said:


> With all this talk of Woo in the last few pages, any thoughts on the WA6 (with the Sophia Princess)? WA6 vs WA7 (amp section only)?


 

 I definitely preferred the WA6 over the WA7 after rolling tubes for both with the HD 800. But if you use, iems, WA7 is the way to go.


----------



## magiccabbage

bourneperfect said:


> I have not-but reports are that it is truly excellent with the HD800. If I weren't getting the Levi, and the EC2A3x4 wasn't an option-the Stratus would be my first choice. It's also the cheapest of the bunch, and I almost placed an order myself about a year ago.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 I am looking forward to seeing what the Levi looks like. It is very expensive though. Out of my budget at least for now.


----------



## BournePerfect

magiccabbage said:


> I am looking forward to seeing what the Levi looks like. It is very expensive though. Out of my budget at least for now.


 
  
 I'd imagine the Stratus or EC 2A3x4 or any other DHT amp will stun with those HD800s. You can't go wrong with any I suppose. If I could-I'd own em all. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## preproman

bourneperfect said:


> Nothing in my profile comes close. *The Leviathan will deliver in spades *though-my end game amp. I also am planning on a Ragnarok as an ss option-here's hoping it pairs with the HD800 better than the MJ.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 You already crowing it the champ without even seeing it let alone hearing it?  The BA is still suppose to be the King of the hill - says the EC fan club - correct?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Without western electric 422a. I preferred wa2 for hd 800

Mostly the wa22 has less bass and its harder to get 6sn7 that are noise free vs the 6922s


----------



## Greed

preproman said:


> You already crowing it the champ without even seeing it let alone hearing it?  The BA is still suppose to be the King of the hill - says the EC fan club - correct?


 
  
 It is supposed to sound better than both the BA and the new 2A3x4 but again these were early reports. Only time will tell but I'd expect it to be glorious.


----------



## koiloco

dubstep girl said:


> Without western electric 422a. I preferred wa2 for hd 800
> 
> *Mostly the wa22 has less bass and its harder to get 6sn7 that are noise free vs the 6922s*


 
 +1.
  
 As I've found this out for myself so far.


----------



## ag8908

Mine just came today from amazon. Not really wowing me relative to my other models, but these are good enough that I won't be returning them. My other headphones are the Shure SRH940, Audeze LCD XC, Fischer FA-003 (I sold this it was really bad) and Shure SE425 (not in the same universe as the other three).
  
 These are also extremely comfortable.


----------



## koiloco

ag8908 said:


> Mine just came today from amazon. Not really wowing me relative to my other models, but these are good enough that I won't be returning them. My other headphones are the Shure SRH940, Audeze LCD XC, Fischer FA-003 (I sold this it was really bad) and Shure SE425 (not in the same universe as the other three).
> 
> These are also extremely comfortable.


 

 Gratz.  What amp are you driving the HD800 with?


----------



## Maxvla

ag8908 said:


> Mine just came today from amazon. Not really wowing me relative to my other models, but these are good enough that I won't be returning them. My other headphones are the Shure SRH940, Audeze LCD XC, Fischer FA-003 (I sold this it was really bad) and Shure SE425 (not in the same universe as the other three).
> 
> These are also extremely comfortable.


The wow comes later after you've listened to the HD800s for a while then go back to your other cans, then you wow at how much of a step down they are


----------



## ag8908

koiloco said:


> Gratz.  What amp are you driving the HD800 with?


 

 I might be the only person on head-fi driving all of my headphones primarily from my phone, a samsung galaxy note 2 (with its Wolfson DAC). I also have a receiver which I used for a while, and which seemed to inject slightly more bass and mids into the HD800s. This is my first high impedance headphone, though, so I might buy an amp.


----------



## ag8908

maxvla said:


> The wow comes later after you've listened to the HD800s for a while then go back to your other cans, then you wow at how much of a step down they are


 

 I don't mean to criticize them. They're good enough that I'm definitely not returning them. They're like the SRH940s with less distortion, and better mids and bass.


----------



## Maxvla

If you don't want to spend much, get a Schiit Vali ($119) or Matrix M-Stage HPA-2 w/USB DAC ($320). I can't comment on the Vali, but the M-Stage will get the HD800s playing to nearly their potential.


----------



## subtle

ag8908 said:


> I might be the only person on head-fi driving all of my headphones primarily from my phone, a samsung galaxy note 2 (with its Wolfson DAC). I also have a receiver which I used for a while, and which seemed to inject slightly more bass and mids into the HD800s. This is my first high impedance headphone, though, so I might buy an amp.


 
  
 You "might" buy an amp?  I would hope you'd invest in that and a quality source as well.
  
 Ignorance can truly be bliss but HD800s from a Galaxy is like water boarding yourself.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I am glad yup said it. The good news is when and if he gets a good amp wow will he be happy. 

Al


----------



## jasonleehl

ag8908 said:


> I might be the only person on head-fi driving all of my headphones primarily from my phone, a samsung galaxy note 2 (with its Wolfson DAC). I also have a receiver which I used for a while, and which seemed to inject slightly more bass and mids into the HD800s. This is my first high impedance headphone, though, so I might buy an amp.


 
  
 I drove my Momentum for a long while from my iPhone and always thought the music is already so good. One day, I purchased a nice portable dac/amp and discovered a totally different world on my Momentum. Then the long journey of headphone + dac + amp search continues....


----------



## Lucky87

Hey guys
  
 Ive been waiting for my tax return and it has finally arrived. I been looking at classified section but the price is really high in the $1300 range but you do get a different set of cords with that price. So my question is it worth it to buy a used set older then 2 years out of warranty but get a higher end cord with it for the price?
 For new all I see is $1500 range, so it leaves me with a opportunity for the ColorWare version where I can select my color for a $100 more then regular retail price. 
 I will be using the HD800 with a Asus Xonar STX, Matrix Audio Mini-i Pro, and a TEAC UD-H01.
  
 Anyone would like to add there 2 cents would be great...
  
 Thanks


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Save the money on the wires unless you want it balanced. Also used is fine. And enjoy the headphones. What I would ask is the synergy of the dac amp you will be using. My two cents 

Al


----------



## BournePerfect

preproman said:


> You already crowing it the champ without even seeing it let alone hearing it?  The BA is still suppose to be the King of the hill - says the EC fan club - correct?


 
  
 I knew I should have put 'should' before that. Feel better??
  
 -Daniel


----------



## palmfish

ag8908 said:


> They're like the SRH940s with less distortion, and better mids and bass.


 
  
 A Corvette is like a Chevy Malibu with more HP, and better handling and brakes.


----------



## koiloco

ag8908 said:


> I might be the only person on head-fi driving all of my headphones primarily from *my phone, a samsung galaxy note 2* (with its Wolfson DAC). I also have a receiver which I used for a while, and which seemed to inject slightly more bass and mids into the HD800s. This is my first high impedance headphone, though, so I might buy an amp.


 
 That's the reason you didn't get a big wow.


----------



## koiloco

palmfish said:


> A Corvette is like a Chevy Malibu with more HP, and better handling and brakes.


 






 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  stop it...


----------



## koiloco

lucky87 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Ive been waiting for my tax return and it has finally arrived. I been looking at classified section but the price is really high in the $1300 range but you do get a different set of cords with that price. So my question is it worth it to buy a used set older then 2 years out of warranty but get a higher end cord with it for the price?
> For new all I see is $1500 range, so it leaves me with a opportunity for the ColorWare version where I can select my color for a $100 more then regular retail price.
> ...


 
 Buy a used pair for $1000 (probably 2 years old or less).  Spend the $500 on amp if you don't have one already.  If not, $500 can buy a lot of good music.


----------



## ag8908

palmfish said:


> A Corvette is like a Chevy Malibu with more HP, and better handling and brakes.


 
  
 Since they're both high-end and considering their countries of origin wouldn't SRH940 to HD800 be more like Lincoln Town Car vs. the really high end Mercedes S-Class?
  
 But seriously, if your compare the innerfidelity charts, you'll see that the SRH940 chart literally traces the HD800 chart. The 30hz, 300hz square wave charts match near perfectly, the SRH940 has much more distortion obviously, and the frequency graphs are also very close (with the SRH940 having bass roll off).
  
 I half seriously wonder if when Shure made the SRH940, they were trying to clone the HD800. Like they used their technology to basically copy its sound signature as well as they could for $300. But the HD800 is clearly better, and is a good upgrade for SRH940 fans because you're basically getting a higher quality version of the same sound signature. Everything sounds slightly more natural with the HD800, whereas it sounded slightly synthetic with the SRH940 is the best way I can explain it.
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-data-sheet-downloads (print out the charts and put one over the other, eerily close)


----------



## ALRAINBOW

As I do not know the headphone that shure has made . I can say charts and freq response curves are pretty useless. Why well for starters. We all hear different. Next putting headphones on a dummy with mics in it does not really tell you how it will sound on you. Case in point LCD,s headphones all three models 2 , 3 and the new ldcX all show the same freq curve so how come they sound different. The answer is the freq curve does not really mean what you think it does. 

Al


----------



## ag8908

So far these are killing every genre of music I throw at them. From high pitched female vocals, to country, to hip hop. Engineering masterpiece.


----------



## TwoEars

maxvla said:


> The wow comes later after you've listened to the HD800s for a while then go back to your other cans, then you wow at how much of a step down they are


 

 Yupp.


----------



## Sonido

For me, I'm most impressed by the headphone's plasticity and malleability. Depending on your amp, you can really affect how the HD800 sounds. Have not experienced another headphone that changes the signature so much from amping. The HD800 just does a good job outputing the signature of your amp. While others have multiple headphones for various genres, I have multiple amps for the HD800. I just ordered the Questyle CMA800R, and it should contrast and complement well with my Bottlehead setup.


----------



## froger

ag8908 said:


> So far these are killing every genre of music I throw at them. From high pitched female vocals, to country, to hip hop. Engineering masterpiece.



I have never used any of my headphones with my handphone before, but your post made me do it the first time just to hear how HD800 sounds from a Samsung note 2. I was actually surprised by the clarity of the sound, and music was in some ways, quite enjoyable, like listening to a ultra clear radio. But like music from radio, sadly, it is just a wall of sound, 2-dimensional and thin. You have missed out on some of the biggest strengths of HD800 like its immersing soundstage and pin-point accurate imaging. Good news is, the sound will improve from here when you start improving on your gears. Have fun, though getting the right sound on HD800 can be both a frustrating and fulfilling journey


----------



## LugBug1

lucky87 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Ive been waiting for my tax return and it has finally arrived. I been looking at classified section but the price is really high in the $1300 range but you do get a different set of cords with that price. So my question is it worth it to buy a used set older then 2 years out of warranty but get a higher end cord with it for the price?
> For new all I see is $1500 range, so it leaves me with a opportunity for the ColorWare version where I can select my color for a $100 more then regular retail price.
> ...


 
 It may seem like madness to advise against buying a brand new HD800 that includes the warranty. But in all seriousness - you won't need it.
  
 Buy the best second hand price for good shape and then pile all of your other money into an amp. Forget about the cable for now. An amp will make or break them, where as an aftermarket cable will give you up to 3% change if you can persuade yourself enough. 
  
 I'm pretty sure that your Matrix mini will be up to task for now.


----------



## Sorrodje

Amp + DAC  Testing time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 REGA Dac + Antique Sound Labs MG Head vs AudioGD NFB12.1 + Schiit VALI.


----------



## PCWar

sub


----------



## LugBug1

sorrodje said:


> Amp + DAC  Testing time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Lookin good bro! 
  
 How you finding the Vali?


----------



## magiccabbage

maxvla said:


> If you don't want to spend much, get a Schiit Vali ($119) or Matrix M-Stage HPA-2 w/USB DAC ($320). I can't comment on the Vali, but the M-Stage will get the HD800s playing to nearly their potential.


 
 Really that's incredible. How close to their potential? For example if you went from an M-stage to a DNA Stratus i wonder what the improvement would sound like?


----------



## TwoEars

magiccabbage said:


> Really that's incredible. How close to their potential? For example if you went from an M-stage to a DNA Stratus i wonder what the improvement would sound like?


 
  
 I think the HD800's is one of the few headphones where it's more important to have a really good DAC than to have a really good AMP.
  
 It's definitely crap-in-crap-out with the HD800's.
  
 But they are actually not that demanding in terms of amplifier power, a simple-ish amplifier should suffice provided that the synergy is good.
  
 At least that's been my experience.
  
 I've tried the HD800 with high-end computer sound cards and while it's definitely not "end-of-the-road-stuff" it'll do in a pinch.


----------



## icebear

maxvla said:


> The wow comes later after you've listened to the HD800s for a while then go back to your other cans, then you wow at how much of a step down they are


 

 +1  THIS happened to me 2 days ago.
 But not going back to other cans but to my main system [SF Cremona & ASR Emitter 1] and I had to realize how much more controlled the sound of the HD800 is than speaker system with the room dominating the sound perception. There is no way that you can listen at equivalent levels with your speakers and expect the same accuracy and clarity. The acoustic bass on one recording made the hardwood floor resonate. I had noticed that before of course but what I did not realize was how much it actually damages the sound reproduction. Call it negative revelation ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## LugBug1

Here's an update on how I'm driving my HD800's these days. 
  
 The Dark Tower of Power!


----------



## Sorrodje

lugbug1 said:


> Lookin good bro!
> 
> How you finding the Vali?


 
  
 It seems to sound very good but I hadn't enough time of listening to give you a serious feedback.  I use this mode to compare the two rig :
  
  
  
  
                                                                    /= coax ==> REGA DAC ==> MG HEAD ===\
                                                                   /                                                               \
       PC (UBUNTU)  === Poppulse USB>SPIDF <                                                                   > FIIO HS2 switcher ===>> HD800
                                                                   \                                                                /
                                                                    \= toslink ====> NFB12.1 ===> VALI === / 
  
  
 I egalize volumes ( with my ears) and I'm listening to music while switching between the two rig.  I will dot this a few weeks. 
  
 The first and only point I can confim now it that both combos sound very good to my ears and very very very close. I think I couldn't distinguish them in a blind text and I really can't tell you differences right now. I've tested NFB12.1 Headphone output and it was very very good too, very close to REGA MG Head combo but it seems i noticed a bit more differences although I'm doubtful about the fact i would recognize  each amp/dac in a blind test .... very very informative experience. 
  
 The main point is I know NFB12 + Vali combo is very well appreciated here ( Thks Bourneperfect for advices 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) for HD800 so I can consider i was not wrong when I've composed my own rig . The second point is that having a good combo for HD800 definitely doesn't need as much money.  I would be very interested to do the same experience with a Hi End rig . I hope to try a EC Super 7 + Auralic DAC in April for example.


----------



## ag8908

I want to store these and my Audeze LCD XCs on my shelf, but I'm worried that some headphone guy will gain access to my apartment and steal them. I hate having small and expensive things in the open sigh.


----------



## punit

Tried the Western Electric 421A  with the Crack today. Just WOW, this is the best sound from the Crack yet, beats the GEC 6AS7G IMHO. Using it with HD 800, The sound is more meaty, mids are more "full" & retains the top end extension & clarity of the GEC. IMHO Its like the best qualities of TS 5998 & GEC 6AS7G combined together


----------



## mrmagoo

sorrodje said:


> It seems to sound very good but I hadn't enough time of listening to give you a serious feedback.  I use this mode to compare the two rig :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
 may I ask you if you bought the fiio hs2 recently and if it was online, where did you get it?
 Because I'm very interested in making my own a/b comparison tests using a similar device but it seems that the fiio hs2 has been discontinued.
 Thanks in advance.
 (I hope I'm not polluting this thread.)
_my current thread:_ http://www.head-fi.org/t/705169/how-do-you-compare-2-headphone-amps


----------



## Sorrodje

@mragoo Sorry, I'm afraid I bought the last one on ebay ...


----------



## mrmagoo

sorrodje said:


> @mragoo Sorry, I'm afraid I bought the last one on ebay ...


----------



## Boss429

Anyone have any experience with the Meier Daccord and Meier Classic with the HD800?


----------



## punit

boss429 said:


> Anyone have any experience with the Meier Daccord and Meier Classic with the HD800?


 

 I do. Works well.


----------



## Boss429

punit said:


> I do. Works well.


 
 Thanks punit.


----------



## ag8908

Did the objective 2 amp drive the hd800 well? Do you need to use the gain switch?


----------



## Maxvla

It drives alright, but lacks in dynamics.


----------



## ag8908

Can you please give an example of dynamics?


----------



## Maxvla

Loud and soft...?


----------



## BournePerfect

Ddddyyyynnnnaaaaammmmiiiiiicccccccssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Dynamics Is the difference from the lowest to loudest sound. Now this does not mean if you turn the volume up you increased the dynamics . So if you listen to the same song on your clock radio and your headphones the ch be is not just loud or low it's not just more detail it is also dynamics. 

Al


----------



## Amictus

I'm getting amazingly good sound on the HD800s straight from the headphone socket on the Oppo 105. Now that's quite a surprise.


----------



## ag8908

alrainbow said:


> Dynamics Is the difference from the lowest to loudest sound. Now this does not mean if you turn the volume up you increased the dynamics . So if you listen to the same song on your clock radio and your headphones the ch be is not just loud or low it's not just more detail it is also dynamics.
> 
> Al


 
  
 Wait, let's say a song has 2 seconds of 0db, 2 seconds of 20db, 2 seconds of 40db when played at X volume. If you increase the volume to Y, wouldn't the above turn into 2 seconds of 0db, 2 seconds of 40db, and 2 seconds of 80db or something close to that? Thus whereas before there was 20db and 40db difference in sound as the song played, now there's 40db and 80db of difference in sound, thus increasing the difference between highest and lowest sounds? Therefore, isn't volume dynamics?


----------



## froger

ag8908 said:


> Did the objective 2 amp drive the hd800 well? Do you need to use the gain switch?



O2 amp on its own driving HD800 is indeed flat sounding. I added the ifi itube before the O2 and it improved the sound by quite a bit, smoother, more dynamic and much better soundstage. However if you consider the total cost of itube and O2, it may be more economical to get the M-stage amplifier instead though I have never heard of it.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Ok let's try it this way. What is the difference from a small radio with one speaker to a stereo with two speakers and the speakers are about two feet high. .

Answer that question and that is dynamics. 
Al


----------



## ag8908

froger said:


> O2 amp on its own driving HD800 is indeed flat sounding. I added the ifi itube before the O2 and it improved the sound by quite a bit, smoother, more dynamic and much better soundstage. However if you consider the total cost of itube and O2, it may be more economical to get the M-stage amplifier instead though I have never heard of it.


 

 The objective2 guy claims his amp beats any amp under $500 in any blind test in all but electrostatic headphones.
  
 Edit: I forgot to add that I'm getting it for free, so no loss to me.


----------



## froger

Let's not go into the O2 amp argument in this thread. Many of us own the O2 amp and we are sharing our findings based on our experience. Or you can choose to follow the claim and pick up an O2 amp and experience yourself. Many of us did


----------



## ag8908

froger said:


> Let's not go into the O2 amp argument in this thread. Many of us own the O2 amp and we are sharing our findings based on our experience. Or you can choose to follow the claim and pick up an O2 amp and experience yourself. Many of us did


 
  
 Oh is that a controversial topic? Sorry.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I own the o2 amp and dac and the other one than sell to the cr4020 or what ever. They are fine but most definitely not hi end. Maybe the people who feel it's fine are using the dac they sell. Now that makes perfect sense lol. 

Al


----------



## RUMAY408

boss429 said:


> Anyone have any experience with the Meier Daccord and Meier Classic with the HD800?


 
 I have tried almost every possible input on the Daccord and Classic, very good but not great with the HD800. Much better with the T1.
  
I recently ran a balanced XLR cable directly from my OPPO BDP-105> Daccord via a balanced RCA Y> coax and the upgrade in imaging and soundstage blew me away.


----------



## PleasantSounds

ag8908 said:


> Wait, let's say a song has 2 seconds of 0db, 2 seconds of 20db, 2 seconds of 40db when played at X volume. If you increase the volume to Y, wouldn't the above turn into 2 seconds of 0db, 2 seconds of 40db, and 2 seconds of 80db or something close to that? Thus whereas before there was 20db and 40db difference in sound as the song played, now there's 40db and 80db of difference in sound, thus increasing the difference between highest and lowest sounds? Therefore, isn't volume dynamics?


 
  
 dB is a logarythmic scale - it doesn't work like that.
  
 Let's try to explain the dynamics with a graph:

 The black line (signal) represents the original input.
 The blue line (response 2) is the ideal output of the amplifier - it is proportional to the input signal. That I'd call dynamic.
 The red line(response 1) is what frequently happens in low quality gear: the amplification is non-linear, i.e. the low amplitude signals are amplified more than the high amplitude signals.


----------



## ag8908

pleasantsounds said:


> dB is a logarythmic scale - it doesn't work like that.
> 
> Let's try to explain the dynamics with a graph:
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks this is helpful. What do the X and Y axis represent? Time and volts?


----------



## PleasantSounds

ag8908 said:


> Thanks this is helpful. What do the X and Y axis represent?


 
 x = time
 y = amplitude


----------



## ag8908

pleasantsounds said:


> x = time
> y = amplitude


 

 OK, so you're saying that an amplifier lacking dynamics makes sounds that were intended to be relatively quiet louder than they were intended to be, and it makes sounds that were intended to be relatively loud quieter than they were intended to be.
  
 So an amplifier lacking dynamics would, on the other hand, probably push more details forward, no? The dynamic amp would play the relatively quiet sounds so quietly that perhaps you couldn't even hear them. But the amp lacking in dynamics would play those quiet subtle sounds louder than you were intended to hear them, perhaps making the difference between hearing and not hearing them at all.
  
 Edit: One other thought is that for IEMs and the risk they pose for hearing damage, it seems you would be justified in preferring an amp lacking in dynamics.
  
 If that's all dynamics is I'm not totally sure I even want it. I actually set spotify to use the equalize sounds feature which would seemingly be a software feature that reduces dynamics?


----------



## ag8908

P.S. Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## PleasantSounds

Probably a better interpretation would be that the problem is with reproducing the loud signals with proper impact. But I wouldn't worry too much about not being able to hear the details: if the recording has been properly engineered, the details will be there. More often the opposite is happening: the original is dynamically compressed to the extent that it sounds unnatural.
  
 Also, keep in mind that the perception of details is usually related to the mid to high frequencies, while dynamics are more likely to fall at the extremes.


----------



## ag8908

pleasantsounds said:


> Probably a better interpretation would be that the problem is with reproducing the loud signals with proper impact. But I wouldn't worry too much about not being able to hear the details: if the recording has been properly engineered, the details will be there. More often the opposite is happening: the original is dynamically compressed to the extent that it sounds unnatural.
> 
> Also, keep in mind that the perception of details is usually related to the mid to high frequencies, while dynamics are more likely to fall at the extremes.


 

 Thanks I'll look out for this characteristic in music.
  
 In general, when I listen to songs, I almost always find myself wishing x instrument were quieter, x voice was louder etc. but that was probably not an issue of dynamics and more an issue of the engineer's subjective decisions of how much volume to give to each instrument etc. when recording.
  
 Overall I like how the HD800 makes some poorly recorded songs sound really bad. For example, I just discovered that on spotify, 320kbps, Valerie by Steve Winwood from The Finer Things album sounds really awful. Some of Lady Gaga's songs also often sound terrible, which makes sense because I read that she literally recorded some of them using her Apple computer's microphone (after which they were engineered in the studio, see e.g. Paper Gangsta).


----------



## PleasantSounds

There's one more side effect of the HD800 being superbly resolving:
  
 I have just used them at mastering a small video production. On the headphones the sound was just perfect, but when played on speakers the background music turned out way too loud. Ended up re-doing the sound mix.


----------



## koiloco

pleasantsounds said:


> There's one more side effect of the HD800 being superbly resolving:
> 
> I have just used them at mastering a small video production. On the headphones the sound was just perfect, but when played on speakers the background music turned out way too loud. Ended up re-doing the sound mix.


 
 +1.  That's why I don't use strictly HPs for mixing/mastering, especially final master.  HD800 is great to catch little errors and get a somewhat accurate initial mix though.


----------



## ag8908

pleasantsounds said:


> There's one more side effect of the HD800 being superbly resolving:
> 
> I have just used them at mastering a small video production. On the headphones the sound was just perfect, but when played on speakers the background music turned out way too loud. Ended up re-doing the sound mix.


 

 Yup. You really need to master based on the most common method of listening to what you're making. I guess that's why lady gaga can get away with recording multiple songs on her macbook's built in microphone. Her fans are just going to listen to it on crap any way so what does she care.


----------



## koiloco

ag8908 said:


> Yup. You really need to master based on the most common method of listening to what you're making. I guess that's why lady gaga can get away with recording multiple songs on her macbook's built in microphone. Her fans are just going to listen to it on crap any way so what does she care.


 
 That's because those people really just listen to the "music".  Nothing's wrong with that.  I often enjoy an old small boombox in the garage while working on my bike.  Let's not be pretentious.   The sound quality from laptops these days is really not that horrible.


----------



## ag8908

koiloco said:


> That's because those people really just listen to the "music".  Nothing's wrong with that.  I often enjoy an old small boombox in the garage while working on my bike.  Let's not be pretentious.   The sound quality from laptops these days is really not that horrible.


 
  
 That's fair, but it's fun to relisten to songs with the HD800 to see how well they were recorded. For example,I just listened to Madonna, a person compared to Lady Gaga, and her 1980s hits were recorded very professionally and they sound great. Even her first 1983 album.


----------



## koiloco

ag8908 said:


> That's fair, but it's fun to relisten to songs with the HD800 to see how well they were recorded. For example,I just listened to Madonna, a person compared to Lady Gaga, and her 1980s hits were recorded very professionally and they sound great. Even her first 1983 album.


 
 Absolutely.  Overall, modern recording/mixing/mastering are not the same as in the old day anymore.


----------



## Lucky87

ag8908 said:


> That's fair, but it's fun to relisten to songs with the HD800 to see how well they were recorded. For example,I just listened to Madonna, a person compared to Lady Gaga, and her 1980s hits were recorded very professionally and they sound great. Even her first 1983 album.


 

 Check out this old school in the 80's when MJ recorded Thriller album and when MTV was just starting out. To somewhat present Dave Grohl from FooFighters making one of his songs inside his garage on old tape. See both videos below..
 I am looking forward when I get my new HD800 I bought today to relive my music..
  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-H1mCEAoiA&list=WLA062D5FAF6D8C7F1
  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INFIOJQ8lmk&list=PLB5C1B855F7C4352F


----------



## LugBug1

With a headphone as transparent as the HD800, hearing the capabilities of amp/source is relatively easy compared to other hp's. Having said that, 'dynamics' is one of those terms that gets used a lot and is often misunderstood. And is even harder to understand when you are not listening to the 'headphone' but examining your amp for e.g. 
  
 Some amps can be crystal clear most of the time and excel at keeping everything tight, fast and focused. All is well until the music calls for that extra push (or reserve of power). An amp that doesn't have this will blur or smear at sudden outbursts of complex music. I.E soft to loud in a split second. A solo violin to full orchestra. It may sound slow or lack the clarity and speed that it had when the music was more constant. This will not be that noticeable unless you are listening to very dynamic music such as classical. But this is what you pay for with better power implementation. 
  
 So, with that in mind and for fear of sounding like a musical snob. If all you listen to is pop music or music that isn't very dynamic. Buy an O2 or similar and live happily ever after!


----------



## Swolern

lucky87 said:


> Check out this old school in the 80's when MJ recorded Thriller album and when MTV was just starting out. To somewhat present Dave Grohl from FooFighters making one of his songs inside his garage on old tape. See both videos below..
> I am looking forward when I get my new HD800 I bought today to relive my music..


 
 I admit Thriller 176kHz/24bit sounds amazing on the HD800.


----------



## Boss429

rumay408 said:


> I have tried almost every possible input on the Daccord and Classic, very good but not great with the HD800. Much better with the T1.
> 
> I recently ran a balanced XLR cable directly from my OPPO BDP-105> Daccord via a balanced RCA Y> coax and the upgrade in imaging and soundstage blew me away.


 
  
 Thanks RUMAY408


----------



## palmfish

swolern said:


> I admit Thriller 176kHz/24bit sounds amazing on the HD800.


 
  
 Thriller 320 kbps MP3 sounds amazing on the HD 800 too.


----------



## elvergun

Haha...Michael Jackson...they still have a shrine to the dude in Munich.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

One of my many jobs way back when was a DJ. At clubs playing DISCO. And the majority of that music genre was recorded very well. It had to be. It was playing at jet plain volumes right at you. So it does stand to reason that Madonna 
Cd,s are very well done and they are. The level of quality mixing is very good till this day. Now as I do not know the entire process that goose into recording and how it ends up on the cd we hear. But it always amazed me that some use headphones or speaker monitors. None use a really good hi quality speaker setup. Meaning something that would reproduce the music at highly accurate and loud levels. They do not. And it begs the question why not. I think the answer is most people do not such systems and maybe since the masses are the target this is what we get. 

Al


----------



## ag8908

Can someone please recommend a short (1.5 meter-ish) cable with a small jack that plugs into portable mp3 players for the HD800? I did some google searches but couldn't find anything. Doesn't need to be super high quality since the music is coming from an MP3 player any way.
  
 I want to wear this outside, for example at a coffee place, and the long cable and convertor jack looks odd.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Ted Allen headphone lounge 
Al


----------



## Greed

For something very reasonable, Brian @ BTG Audio


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I would get quotes from both , Ted is pretty fast .

Al


----------



## TwoEars

ag8908 said:


> Can someone please recommend a short (1.5 meter-ish) cable with a small jack that plugs into portable mp3 players for the HD800? I did some google searches but couldn't find anything. Doesn't need to be super high quality since the music is coming from an MP3 player any way.
> 
> I want to wear this outside, for example at a coffee place, and the long cable and convertor jack looks odd.


 
  
 You're worried about the *cable* looking odd?


----------



## ag8908

twoears said:


> You're worried about the *cable* looking odd?


 

 Does the HD800 look that weird? I might think that people are looking at me if I wear the Aude'ze LCD XC outside but the HD800 don't stand out that much to me.
  
 Is there a way to just order the cable from Ebay or amazon something without using a custom cable maker like Allen or BTG? I couldn't find them but I may not have been doing the right searches.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

You really cannot where the headphones outside or where there is ambient noise. They are not noise isolating.


----------



## ag8908

alrainbow said:


> You really cannot where the headphones outside or where there is ambient noise. They are not noise isolating.


 
 I don't mind that. Same problem would occur if you brought speakers with you outside and listened that way.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

And you are worried about the wires 
Lol


----------



## Sonido

ag8908 said:


> Can someone please recommend a short (1.5 meter-ish) cable with a small jack that plugs into portable mp3 players for the HD800? I did some google searches but couldn't find anything. Doesn't need to be super high quality since the music is coming from an MP3 player any way.
> 
> I want to wear this outside, for example at a *coffee place*, and the long cable and convertor jack looks odd.


 
 I think people there are gonna hate you.


----------



## TwoEars

sonido said:


> I think people there are gonna hate you.


 

  + 1
  
Seriously - just get a pair of ATH-M50's or Sennheiser Momentums.
  
With all the background noise going on they will probably sound better anyway, and you won't annoy the people around you either.
  
 Open back headphones in public places is a seriously bad idea. It only sounds good to you and it sounds absolute crap to everyone else around you.


----------



## Maxvla

AKG K550 also worth a look if trying to be somewhat near HD800 sound.


----------



## ag8908

There's no way I'm wearing an ATM50 or KG550 or momentum whatever if I have an HD800. I'm not even wearing my SRH940s anymore.
  
 Also, the HD800s aren't that loud to others. If it's annoying to others you're probably doing damage to your ears.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Let's not pile on. I fell like you guys do but it is his choice. . Example. I have 2 phones on me as I run a buisness. And a dap with CIEMS. And an amp. Well I do get looks from people. . And it does bother me but I still want my music they way it is. What is wrong with this gent is he will not be enjoying his music as it will be to loud there for him to hear it with any quality. 
Al


----------



## Sonido

@ag8908 It seems you got the wrong pair of headphones. Let me introduce you to the AKG K812. Based on the impressions, it sounds like a far better headphone if you plan to just drive it through your smartphone or MP3 player and use on the go.


----------



## thegrobe

I am sometimes bothered by the very very slight buzz of a fish tank filter clear across the house when listening to my HD800. if the TV or something is on, forget it. May as well put in my CIEM's.

I guess I'm "that guy". (The other kind)


----------



## ag8908

thegrobe said:


> I am sometimes bothered by the very very slight buzz of a fish tank filter clear across the house when listening to my HD800. if the TV or something is on, forget it. May as well put in my CIEM's.
> 
> I guess I'm "that guy". (The other kind)


 

 Sometimes background noise can be an intrusion with me as well; It depends if I want to listen critically or casually.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Now that part does make sense to why you want to where them in public. If you said it that way we all would have under stood better. I have homes in two states. And live mostly in NYC. All I can say is we newyorkers stink for manners. People take ther children to restaurants and let them annoy others . Talk on the phone at movies and at Starbucks. . And I think it's why I do see so many people there with headphones. But the Bose or other closed back ones. It's not for the others it's to shut all,others out. He'll I do the same thing on the trains with my CIEMS,, so the guy preaching or the people playing a tune for money does not bother me. I am the guy in the seat with a crazy skull hat on and I am just left alone. Now down south. It is a whole other seen. People greet you , people will let you get out of spot while they wait. It's a much relaxed attitude. We newyorkers have become animals of sort. Not all as I am kind , but mostly get attempted to be abused. 

Al


----------



## 62ohm

Good to see the thread got unlocked. Let's not let this thread get locked again


----------



## daniel0407

Hi people,

Many are talking about the fatiguing trebel, but for me the fatigue come from the stereo bass. If I apply the crossover in Jriver when I feel tired of the headphones, the fatigue goes away.

The same has been already commented by another member, I think in this same thread. Try it, probably it will work for you as well, and if it does, you will percieve it imediately.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I beleave it was me that started the battle over EQ. And I a glad you tried it. To many people dismiss it without ever putting some good effort into it. There is a learning curve to everything. 

Al


----------



## thegrobe

I use the subtle crossfeed setting in jriver as well with the HD800. Occasionally the "normal" setting on an album with really hard panning (Beatles, etc) Although I don't find any fatigue without crossfeed. Has nothing to do with fatigue for me. I find it adds a touch more depth and "naturalness" to the presentation. For lack of a better word. It comes at the cost of a touch of width but the HD800 has width to spare.

I've got nothing against eq or crossfeed. I haven't needed eq really though as tube rolling nails my preferred signature with the 800's.


----------



## Jon-LF

How does one get his hands on the Limited Edition Black HD800s? What is the story behind them?


----------



## Greed

jon-lf said:


> How does one get his hands on the Limited Edition Black HD800s? What is the story behind them?


 
  
 Colorware


----------



## Jon-LF

greed said:


> Colorware




That's what I thought, but then I read David Mehlers post that there was an LE. Is that true?


----------



## Greed

jon-lf said:


> That's what I thought, but then I read David Mehlers post that there was an LE. Is that true?


 
  
 From what I understand there is no LE. The pair that Jude has was given (or he bought it?) to him by Colorware which technically is a limited edition color (the Senn blue ring) they offered for a very short time. I don't think it is still available.


----------



## 62ohm

It's relieving to know that there is such a thing as Colorware, I guess I don't have to worry about my HD800's paint getting ruined after a few years anymore.


----------



## Jon-LF

Me thinks this looks just like Jude's? I wonder if paint will affect the SQ?


----------



## Maxvla

It doesn't. We tested mine and it matched a few stock HD800s within manufacturer margin of error.


----------



## punit

Some humorous reading, might bring a smile to your face 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  :
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-hd-800-headphones/reviews/10514


----------



## MickeyVee

Not even worth commenting on.
 Quote:


punit said:


> Some humorous reading, might bring a smile to your face
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## pdrm360

> Originally Posted by *MickeyVee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I won an assortment of headphones , amps and dacs. How can someone post such tripe is beyond my thinking. There are downsides to every headphone. But that is not a way to describe them. The only part he got correct is they are finicky with amps. It's funny but d
Sad no one takes the garbage review down. If I were to read that way back when I would not have bought them. 

Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I had a friend today for a mini meet. And he had some mod on his headphones. To dampen the highs. I was wondering why his headphones sounded the way they did. . He removed it. They sounded pretty good . And for the guy who wants to know about the paring with the stratus. Excellent. Really gives all the details of whT is there. Not that tuby sound , fast , punchy. Great spring. It did the he6 pretty good too. But it could be better. But overall pretty good . Only when we moved up to more power amps we could here the change. So he6 7.5 out of 10. But with the HD800 9.5 out of 10. Leaving room for something better. But the truth is , I done know any LOL. 

big thanks to craig. A real gentleman for bringing his equipment over. 

Al


----------



## 62ohm

punit said:


> Some humorous reading, might bring a smile to your face
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  

  
  
 just...lol
  
 That reviewer though, joined not long ago.. Impressive method to gather instantaneous and irrational hatred towards himself.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Ya know. I do not consider myself a reviewer but all I can say is wow. 
Al


----------



## koiloco

I offer to buy his HD800 for $500 if he still has it.  I'll keep a pair at the office.


----------



## 62ohm

koiloco said:


> I offer to buy his HD800 for $500 if he still has it.  I'll keep a pair at the office.


 
  
 Would be a deal of the decade if you got his pair for that price


----------



## pdrm360

koiloco said:


> I offer to buy his HD800 for $500 if he still has it.  I'll keep a pair at the office.


 
  
 Sorry but I doubt if he's had any HD800.


----------



## pdrm360

The below is also an HD800, I don't think they sound good though.

 Sperian HD800


----------



## drez

punit said:


> Some humorous reading, might bring a smile to your face    :
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-hd-800-headphones/reviews/10514




Meh, looking at associated equipment I think explains a lot. I think HD800 are a better 4th or 5th headphone once you find out that nothing else will do, and become more familiar with system setup.


----------



## jerrick85

Just now received my new HD800. I'm so happy to join the club. Now the quest for amp begins.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

jerrick85 said:


> Just now received my new HD800. I'm so happy to join the club. Now the quest for amp begins.


 


 I don't know whether to congratulate you or to extend you my sympathy.  That quest is both exhilarating and frustrating, aurally exciting and financially punitive.

 As a fellow traveller on the same quest and journey, I welcome and wish you good luck.


----------



## Sorrodje

+1 sp3llv3xit & Welcome onboard...


----------



## akhyar

jerrick85 said:


> Just now received my new HD800. I'm so happy to join the club. Now the quest for amp begins.


 
  
 Congrats and good luck....
 Tell us what is the maximum you want to spend on the amp, and we will come up with many suggestions 2 to 3 times your budget


----------



## jerrick85

Thanks but I'm fully aware of what am getting into and am so thrilled. HD800's are my dream can for almost 4 years and now a long time wish came true.


----------



## jerrick85

akhyar said:


> Congrats and good luck....
> Tell us what is the maximum you want to spend on the amp, and we will come up with many suggestions *2 to 3 times your budget*


 
 That's the only part am scared of.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

akhyar said:


> Congrats and good luck....
> Tell us what is the maximum you want to spend on the amp, and we will come up with many suggestions 2 to 3 times your budget


 


 Ain't that true!


----------



## TwoEars

akhyar said:


> Congrats and good luck....
> Tell us what is the maximum you want to spend on the amp, and we will come up with many suggestions 2 to 3 times your budget



 


Don't forget the DAC designed by a blind savant and the cables blessed by the third son of of castrated Tibetan monk.

Honestly though... the HD800 sounds pretty good even on modest equipment. It just scales very well when you pay more....

A nos DAC and matrix m-stage won't show you everything the HD800 can do but it should be an excellent starting point.


----------



## LilBuck

Decided that I am going to upgrade to HD 800. Hopefully will purchase soon (been watching the classifieds hoping for an all black colorware set) but I have been researching amps/dacs for $600 or less and I am not sure I have fully decided what I want yet. Tubes sound appealing and some of them look pretty amazing (woo/la figaro), but I honestly think I would forget to turn the amp off often since I use the computer for a few hours a night for games/movies/music and am forgetful.
  
 Some solid state options I have considered - Asus Essence One, Matrix M Stage, Schiit (seems some like magni/modi with HD800, or maybe Uberfrost + Asgard 2).

 I read a lot about how picky HD 800 is for amps, but then also how a lot people think some of these reasonably priced options sound great. I guess it is just a little difficult to determine how much to spend.
  
 I have only heard the headphone through the BH Crack, and that was over a year ago.


----------



## 62ohm

lilbuck said:


> Decided that I am going to upgrade to HD 800. Hopefully will purchase soon (been watching the classifieds hoping for an all black colorware set) but I have been researching amps/dacs for $600 or less and I am not sure I have fully decided what I want yet. Tubes sound appealing and some of them look pretty amazing (woo/la figaro), but I honestly think I would forget to turn the amp off often since I use the computer for a few hours a night for games/movies/music and am forgetful.
> 
> Some solid state options I have considered - Asus Essence One, Matrix M Stage, Schiit (seems some like magni/modi with HD800, or maybe Uberfrost + Asgard 2).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can recommend WA3 / WA6 for a starter (WA3 if you want lusher, more tubey sound, and WA6 if you want more detailed, SS-like sound). And if you want a tube-like sound but don't want the hassle of tubes, there's the Graham Slee Solo. I have never heard the Ultra Linear DE, but I've heard the SRG-II (with PSU1) with HD800 and it was pretty phenomenal. Graham Slee even recommended to *never turn off* the amp as well, another less hassle for you there. Till this date, I still sort of regretted getting the WA3 instead of the GSP Solo.
  
 I can't recommend Magni/Modi with HD800 at all. Tried it, sounds very bad IMO. YMMV though.


----------



## MickeyVee

If you go the Schiit route, take a look at the Bifrost/Vali.  Good starting place.
 Quote:


lilbuck said:


>


----------



## punit

I have Bttlhd Crack & WA6, I prefer the Crack more than the WA6 with the HD 800.


----------



## 62ohm

punit said:


> I have Bttlhd Crack & WA6, I prefer the Crack more than the WA6 with the HD 800.


 
  
 I noticed on your profile that you have a Lyr. Care to give a concise impression on how does it compare to WA6 with HD800?


----------



## Sorrodje

Ok Let's start a new game : "vote for the most cheap & valuable rig  for HD800"  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 @Lugbug1:  you're banned from the game, Vintage gear are too old. Period.


----------



## TwoEars

Don't confuse "picky" with "expensive" 

It's important to get the synergy right, but you can get the synergy right even on less expensive equipment.

The HD800 is a very transparent/detailed and slightly "lean" headphone.

So in my mind a general baseline recommendation would be that you want a dac that's "organic sounding", that is it's more "musical" than "analytical". Nos DAC's tend to be good for this. And you want an amp that's fast and detailed but not cold sounding.


----------



## Sorrodje

twoears said:


> So in my mind a general baseline recommendation would be that you want a dac that's "organic sounding", that is it's more "musical" than "analytical". Nos DAC's tend to be good for this. And you want an amp that's fast and detailed but not cold sounding.


 
  
 +1 .. Same experience here and I experienced good dacs that sounded awfully with my HD800.


----------



## punit

62ohm said:


> I noticed on your profile that you have a Lyr. Care to give a concise impression on how does it compare to WA6 with HD800?


 

 I haven't heard the Lyr since 3-4 weeks, the Crack, WA6 & Meier Classic have taken up all the listening time. I do not want to do a comparison based on the sound of Lyr from my memory. I  will post my impressions after a side by side comparison between the Lyr & WA6 on Thursday.


----------



## 62ohm

punit said:


> I haven't heard the Lyr since 3-4 weeks, the Crack, WA6 & Meier Classic have taken up all the listening time. I do not want to do a comparison based on the sound of Lyr from my memory. I  will post my impressions after a side by side comparison between the Lyr & WA6 on Thursday.


 
  
 Thanks mate, much appreciated!


----------



## TwoEars

How about the Little Dot MK VII+ Balanced Headphone Amp? ($385)

And solder your own connectors on the stock cable?

Otherwise the matrix-m stage I know is ridiculous good for it's price.

NOS DAC maybe something from Metrum? Could be better/cheaper options out there though. I know there are a lot of really cheap nos amps floating around on ebay that some people say sound 10x their price.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Guys and gals. If someone is starting out they should get a tube amp. The choices by different sounds is too many with tubes. I feel the HDVD800 is affine start. And that person can buy a better DAC down the road .

Guys look at the stuff I have its good stuff. And do you think a flagship sennheiser combo is that bad. 
The amp for those heahones is great. No to be rude who here has 40 k DAC , well. If I say the amp is great 
Maybe I a right . I have many other items I have bought new and sold. The hd800 and the hdvd800 is a solid combo to start . 
Al


----------



## TwoEars

What about the Woo Audio WA7?

Not super cheap but it might be worth it?


----------



## jerrick85

I tried mine with Audio-gd 11.32 and didn't quite like it. So just ordered M-stage for now. Can anyone tell me how m-stage fares against Asgard 2?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Here is something to ponder. I have 15 year old aragon amps for my office rig. And wow how good the HE6 and the HD800 sounded. Crazy right. 

Al


----------



## Sorrodje

jerrick85 said:


> I tried mine with Audio-gd 11.32 and didn't quite like it. So just ordered M-stage for now. Can anyone tell me how m-stage fares against Asgard 2?


 
  
  
 The 11.32 is a "sabre based" dac. You should better try the wolfson based 15.32 .


----------



## jerrick85

sorrodje said:


> The 11.32 is a "sabre based" dac. You should better try the wolfson based 15.32 .



I really like 11.32 with my he-500. As for hd800, l'm trying to explore other options like Asgard 2/bifrost.


----------



## nigeljames

sorrodje said:


> The 11.32 is a "sabre based" dac. You should better try the wolfson based 15.32 .


 
  
 Why?
  
 I use my HD800's with NFB-7 and it sounds superb, even with silver/silver&gold cables.
  
 Sabre32 dac will maximize the speed, clarity, detail and dynamics inherent in the HD800's.


----------



## TwoEars

Yupp, I have a sabre based DAC with my HD800's.

I love it, especially for electronic music, but it's not a combo I can easily recommend. It's hyper-detailed and a bit like like having the contrast turned up to elven. It requires some EQ'ing and super clean source material or it will be very tiring.

The Wolfson chip is a much safer bet if you want to enjoy music in general.


----------



## jsgraha

I have a vali with custom linear ac psu (replacing generic wallwart), and I think it sound great. Even using iMod gen4 as a source. It give a smooth fast and intimate sq with 3d soundstage.


----------



## 62ohm

Can anyone give me some impressions on how does the HD800 pairs with M-Stage? I prefer tube amps, but I have no problem switching to solid states at all, especially if the M-Stage outperforms WA3/WA6/Lyr with HD800. Also, Does the HPA-2 offers significant improvement over the original M-Stage?
  
 And should I just get myself an M-Stage, or save the money and go for a WA2? It would take me some time to save up for WA2, while M-Stage can be bought much sooner. Any insight would be very appreciated, thanks.


----------



## Maxvla

62ohm said:


> I prefer tube amps, but I have no problem switching to solid states at all, especially if the M-Stage outperforms WA3/WA6/Lyr with HD800.




It does.



> Also, Does the HPA-2 offers significant improvement over the original M-Stage?




It does not. (unless you are talking about the optional DAC, see my recent review)



> And should I just get myself an M-Stage, or save the money and go for a WA2? It would take me some time to save up for WA2, while M-Stage can be bought much sooner.




Not sure WA2 would be the best choice. The M-Stage would at least give you time to try other things, especially if you can attend meets.


----------



## TwoEars

I highly recommend the M-Stage, it's a good match for the HD800 and outstanding for it's price. Very solid build quality under the lid.

It's commonly known as the "lehmann black cube clone". That was the amp the HD800 was designed with and is about 3x the price.

It's a fast detailed amp that isn't overly bright, and that's exactly what the HD800 needs.

I'm not a big fan of low-end tube amps. If you want a tube amp be prepared to spend at least $800-1000.

On a budget I'd take the m-stage and a nos dac in a heartbeat.


----------



## pila405

Does anyone here EQ his HD-800?


----------



## pdrm360

maxvla said:


> It does.
> It does not. (unless you are talking about the optional DAC, see my recent review)
> Not sure WA2 would be the best choice. The M-Stage would at least give you time to try other things, especially if you can attend meets.


 
  
 What is the advantage of the M-Stage over the WA3/WA6/Lyr except the solid state's advantages?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

The woo WA 22 is balanced and must be for the hd800 to sound great. It is a very good match. 
PS I have one listed for sale. With the tube upgrades. 
Al


----------



## 62ohm

maxvla said:


> 62ohm said:
> 
> 
> > I prefer tube amps, but I have no problem switching to solid states at all, especially if the M-Stage outperforms WA3/WA6/Lyr with HD800.
> ...


 
  
 I've read your review, so should I just get myself the HPA-1 and save myself some money? And regarding WA2, I've read numerous report that it pairs exceptionally well with HD800, have never heard one in person though. 
  


twoears said:


> I highly recommend the M-Stage, it's a good match for the HD800 and outstanding for it's price. Very solid build quality under the lid.
> 
> It's commonly known as the "lehmann black cube clone". That was the amp the HD800 was designed with and is about 3x the price.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am aiming for the WA2, that's why I'm in a very serious doubt. Should I get the M-Stage, or save the money and go for WA2?
  
  
 Also, this may sound weird, but I don't like my DM100 very much when paired with WA3. It makes the highs sound harsh compared to the now-gone Modi. So if I go for M-Stage, should I go for HPA-1 without dac, or HPA-2 with the dac option? Thanks.


----------



## jerrick85

twoears said:


> I highly recommend the M-Stage, it's a good match for the HD800 and outstanding for it's price. Very solid build quality under the lid.
> 
> It's commonly known as the "lehmann black cube clone". That was the amp the HD800 was designed with and is about 3x the price.
> 
> ...




Where can I get one?


----------



## TwoEars

alrainbow said:


> The woo WA 22 is balanced and must be for the hd800 to sound great. It is a very good match.
> 
> PS I have one listed for sale. With the tube upgrades.
> 
> Al



 


Very smooth...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Thanks I feel so ignored. LOL. 

All,joking. A really good amp. But I do think the hdvd600. Is more revealing. It's a shame no one is considering an amp that was made for the headphones. 

Al


----------



## 62ohm

alrainbow said:


> Thanks I feel so ignored. LOL.
> 
> All,joking. A really good amp. But I do think the hdvd600. Is more revealing. It's a shame no one is considering an amp that was made for the headphones.
> 
> Al


 
  
 Its way more expensive than the other objects in considerations mate, I wish I could try it.


----------



## 62ohm

Also, sorry for the series of question, but would it make a significant difference if I use the M-Stage to preamp my WA3? (in case if I don't like it).


----------



## jerrick85

alrainbow said:


> Thanks I feel so ignored. LOL.
> 
> All,joking. A really good amp. But I do think the hdvd600. Is more revealing. It's a shame no one is considering an amp that was made for the headphones.
> 
> Al



I'm just starting out to find a better amp for hd800, so i'd like to start from down and move up the ladder slowly. This way I can appreciate the improvements along the way and gain some knowledge


----------



## Maxvla

62ohm said:


> I've read your review, so should I just get myself the HPA-1 and save myself some money? And regarding WA2, I've read numerous report that it pairs exceptionally well with HD800, have never heard one in person though.
> 
> 
> I am aiming for the WA2, that's why I'm in a very serious doubt. Should I get the M-Stage, or save the money and go for WA2?
> ...



If you go M-Stage I would go HPA-2 with the DAC. I listened using just the HPA-2 as DAC and amp and it sounded quite nice with HD800. As my review said it isn't perfect, but it is crazy performance for the extra $40 it costs. If I had to do it all over again with the knowledge I have now, I would go HPA-2 as both DAC and amp til I had money for GS-X and X-Sabre. I would skip the WA6 the Mjolnir and the BHA-1 and the Gungnir. Hindsight is 20-20 though.


----------



## jerrick85

maxvla said:


> If you go M-Stage I would go HPA-2 with the DAC. I listened using just the HPA-2 as DAC and amp and it sounded quite nice with HD800. As my review said it isn't perfect, but it is crazy performance for the extra $40 it costs. If I had to do it all over again with the knowledge I have now, I would go HPA-2 as both DAC and amp til I had money for GS-X and X-Sabre. I would skip the WA6 the Mjolnir and the BHA-1 and the Gungnir. Hindsight is 20-20 though.


 
 I went for HPA-2 w/DAC after reading your review. On the other hand i'm trying find information on nos dac but not many details about them. I think i'll try hpa-2 dac first and decide later.


----------



## Sonido

alrainbow said:


> Thanks I feel so ignored. LOL.
> 
> All,joking. A really good amp. But I do think the hdvd600. Is more revealing. It's a shame no one is considering an amp that was made for the headphones.
> 
> Al



So you like HDVA600/HDVD800 over WA22? I recently purchased the Questyle CMA800R which is also designed specifically for the HD800 in mind. It's $1500 normal price, but I got it at $1000. I only bought one so I plan to use it single ended, but getting two would allow you to run the HD800 balanced, as the amp allows you to run them as monoblocks when you have two. From a price standpoint it would be comparable to the WA22 and HDVD800 when running it balanced with two, more so if you're comparing MSRP ($3000). Of course price alone doesn't determine quality. I'm excited to see how it sounds. I like how it allows you to buy just "half" the amp for a more affordable price if you're just looking to run SE, and upgrade later to balanced if you want.


----------



## 62ohm

maxvla said:


> If you go M-Stage I would go HPA-2 with the DAC. I listened using just the HPA-2 as DAC and amp and it sounded quite nice with HD800. As my review said it isn't perfect, but it is crazy performance for the extra $40 it costs. If I had to do it all over again with the knowledge I have now, I would go HPA-2 as both DAC and amp til I had money for GS-X and X-Sabre. I would skip the WA6 the Mjolnir and the BHA-1 and the Gungnir. Hindsight is 20-20 though.


 
  
 The problem is, I have to pay tax to import anything that cost more than $300. So for me the dac for the HPA-2 costs $150 instead of $40...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

The amp you describe sounds really good as you can 
Grow into it. 

The wa 22 is really good but being tubes 
It warms things up a little 
But if you want all the details the headphone 
Has to offer you need a SS amp. And there's is off the hook 
In details. If you want all the headphone has
To offer it gives it. Now I have some speaker amps 
That I use for the HE6. One is a krell KAV 400 xi 
And the other is Aragon 8008 BB. 
Well they are really good with both. And the Aragon
Is a little more foward. 
Al


----------



## Maxvla

62ohm said:


> The problem is, I have to pay tax to import anything that cost more than $300. So for me the dac for the HPA-2 costs $150 instead of $40...



Try buying it from the Asian market, you might get it cheaper there.


----------



## 62ohm

What about this? Any thoughts on this? Thanks.
  
 Quote:


62ohm said:


> Also, sorry for the series of question, but would it make a significant difference if I use the M-Stage to preamp my WA3? (in case if I don't like it).


----------



## Dionysus

Iam happy to say I have a brand new HD800 own the way, moving from HD700 to the HD800 I should have them early next week am very exited.


----------



## BournePerfect

dionysus said:


> Iam happy to say I have a brand new HD800 own the way, moving from HD700 to the HD800 I should have them early next week am very exited.


 
  
 I am very entranced for you. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Sonido

dionysus said:


> Iam happy to say I have a brand new HD800 own the way, moving from HD700 to the HD800 I should have them early next week am very exited.


 

 The HD700 Appreciation thread would be sad to know of another convert, but it's inevitable...
  
 Don't be disheartened if you find that you actually prefer the HD700 over the HD800 at first. There are two types of owners or once owners of the HD800. Ones that gave up early because the immediate pairing with whatever DAC/amp they have made the HD800 sound bad, and ones that went through the journey of finding the right chain for the HD800 for their personal tastes and reaped the rewards. The HD800 is a metajourney in the this audiophile journey.


----------



## Dionysus

sonido said:


> The HD700 Appreciation thread would be sad to know of another convert, but it's inevitable...
> 
> Don't be disheartened if you find that you actually prefer the HD700 over the HD800 at first. There are two types of owners or once owners of the HD800. Ones that gave up early because the immediate pairing with whatever DAC/amp they have made the HD800 sound bad, and ones that went through the journey of finding the right chain for the HD800 for their personal tastes and reaped the rewards. The HD800 is a metajourney in the this audiophile journey.


 

I am prepared, I will start with either the HDVA600 and a very good DAC or the HDVD800 and work from there. I figure I will work with what Senn set out to accomplish first and if that doesn't work out, I'll try something else.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Good choice. You will be happy. If you do not own a dac. I would buy the 800. . As the dac or amp can be used separately. And the dac is not bad. But the amp is great .
Al


----------



## pdrm360

alrainbow said:


> Good choice. You will be happy. If you do not own a dac. I would buy the 800. . As the dac or amp can be used separately. And the dac is not bad. But the amp is great .
> Al


 
  
 Do you know how the 800's DAC is in compare to the Bifrost?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Sorry I do not have that dac or know about it. I can tell you how the dac in the 800 sounds. It has good detail not Brite but no polite either. It very good imaging. The combo works well with many headphones. , not demanding a Lot of power. It has air about it on recordings. Where it lacks is where the headphones lack. It is a little cold and clinical. But this is a temporary feeling as when you get used to the headphones . This all goes away Nd you get to enjoy every detail there is . Now the other detail the dac misses is what all sacs in this level do the layers in. Recording. Now do not be upset there are 8 k dacs that do not do that well either. 
Al


----------



## Jon-LF

sonido said:


> The HD700 Appreciation thread would be sad to know of another convert, but it's inevitable...
> 
> Don't be disheartened if you find that you actually prefer the HD700 over the HD800 at first. There are two types of owners or once owners of the HD800. Ones that gave up early because the immediate pairing with whatever DAC/amp they have made the HD800 sound bad, and ones that went through the journey of finding the right chain for the HD800 for their personal tastes and reaped the rewards. The HD800 is a metajourney in the this audiophile journey.


 
  
 I wouldn't say inevitable, many would never want to invest the required $$$ to get the "best" out of the 800s. I maintain that I (subjectively) prefer the sound out of the 700s out of most sources, but now that I have a solid amp/ dac combination which (to my ears) outclasses the 700s on the same setup, in every way except that it's a little too large, it's a no brainer. 
  
 The W3000ANVs, HD800s will be the only headphones I'll use going forward I reckon in my primary setup. The rest would be collectors pieces, portables, etc.


----------



## Sorrodje

twoears said:


> Yupp, I have a sabre based DAC with my HD800's.
> 
> I love it, especially for electronic music, but it's not a combo I can easily recommend. It's hyper-detailed and a bit like like having the contrast turned up to elven. It requires some EQ'ing and super clean source material or it will be very tiring.
> 
> The Wolfson chip is a much safer bet if you want to enjoy music in general.


 
  
 I have the same opinion.  

 For a beginner, I think wolfson based dac are better bet because they tend to smooth the inherent nature of the HD800. Indeed, I hope Experienced owners made their own opinon and choosed their favorite dac after a while. 
  
 Overally, the best way to begin the travel with HD800 is to purchase well recommended and cheap dac & amp for HD800 and listen listen listen music . Then with more time of listening everyone becomes able to identify if he wants something more (or less) .


----------



## pdrm360

sorrodje said:


> I have the same opinion.
> 
> For a beginner, I think wolfson based dac are better bet because they tend to smooth the inherent nature of the HD800 and. Indeed, I hope Experienced owners made their own opinon and choosed their favorite dac after a while.
> 
> Overally, the best way to begin the travel with HD800 is to purchase well recommended and cheap dac & amp for HD800 and listen listen listen music . Then with more time of listening everyone becomes able to identify if he wants something more (or less) .


 
  
 +1 that's what I'm doing.


----------



## Sorrodje

Moreover I can say I'm very happy to find the NFB12.1 + Vali sounds as good as my main rig. because it's much lighter an more easy to carry when i'll go testing amp or dacs in meetings or at stores. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I'me very curious about how far more expensive gear would sound better thant my current rigs


----------



## pdrm360

The problem is we don’t know what we should expect until hearing music from a better gear.


----------



## Sorrodje

Hence the importance of doing A / B testing with its own basic combo as soon as possible .   I organize a french meeting in april and I hope to have an Eddie Current Super 7 to try seriously against my own rig .


----------



## pila405

How many people here EQ their HD-800?

 Anyway, these are the settings I use with the HD-800 (S/N 20K+) with the 'Graphic Equalizer' in Foobar2K and assuming the rest of the set-up is neutral (DAC/Amp).
 Based on recordings made in the Concertgebouw and my own experience in the concerts I attended there: http://speedy.sh/gm3Xd/HD800B31.xgeq
 A bit warmer yet very natural version: http://speedy.sh/jfDcE/HD800HB32.xgeq


----------



## frix

I EQ them with equalizer apo, which is a system wide parametric EQ.
 I basically boosted the sub bass by 6dB without affecting mid and upper bass much.
  
 Also I reduced a peak at 5300hz by 5db and a peak at 7300hz by 6db.
  
 On some records it's hardly noticeable,
 on other records it significantly helps to reduce harshness.
  
 I prefer this method over buying colored amps.


----------



## pila405

I think the same. 

 Do you know how well this APO EQ acts? Is it smooth as Foobar2K's Graphic Equalizer?

 For example, Foobar's built-in EQ is horrible:
 http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=88505


----------



## frix

Since it is a parametric EQ I think it's superior and smoother
 than a band based graphic EQ.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

No it's the same as any EQ. 
The difference is you can pick the freq and how wide the band is 
And cut or add db. 
Al


----------



## punit

62ohm said:


> I noticed on your profile that you have a Lyr. Care to give a concise impression on how does it compare to WA6 with HD800?


 
 Here are my comparison notes between the 2 (I am in Finance & accounting, i do not do prose, I do to-the-point, concise notes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) .

System used :- Mac Mini running Pure Music (Wave files
	
) - Weiss Int 202 - Audio GD NFB 7 DAC - Amp - HD 800
 Running WA6 with Sophia Princess rectifier & 6FD7 drivers & Lyr with Amperex Orange Globes
 HD 800 sounds lean / flat on the Lyr, Treble has a bit of grain, causes fatigue after some time, not very smooth
 Sound stage is much wider & deeper on WA6, Sounds much more musical &engaging
 Bass is one dimensional on the Lyr, more 3D / textured on the WA6
 Treble extends further, no grain on the WA6
 I can tailor the sound of the WA6 the way i want by using my collection of tubes, you can do the same on the Lyr to some extent but the WA6 gives you 10 times more flexibility for this considering the number of driver & rectifier combinations possible.
  
 I hadn't used the Lyr for some weeks & only plugged it in today for this comparison. In fact as a direct result of this comparison I have now realised that the Lyr is now redundant for me. Seems like will have to sell it


----------



## palmfish

Haha, last night I plugged my HD 800 into my iPhone 4S and listened to some music and it sounded exactly like your description of the Lyr. I remember a couple of years ago when the Lyr was FOTM and everyone was saying how amazing it was.
  
 Funny how that works...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

FOTM. ?


----------



## Sorrodje

alrainbow said:


> FOTM. ?


 
  
 Flavor Of The Month.


----------



## olor1n

palmfish said:


> Haha, last night I plugged my HD 800 into my iPhone 4S and listened to some music and it sounded exactly like your description of the Lyr. I remember a couple of years ago when the Lyr was FOTM and everyone was saying how amazing it was.
> 
> Funny how that works...


 
  
 The Lyr is a fine amp for the LCD-2. Not so much the HD800.


----------



## Maxvla

palmfish said:


> Haha, last night I plugged my HD 800 into my iPhone 4S and listened to some music and it sounded exactly like your description of the Lyr. I remember a couple of years ago when the Lyr was FOTM and everyone was saying how amazing it was.
> 
> Funny how that works...



It was never intended to be paired with the HD800, though.


----------



## LilBuck

Picking up my HD 800s later today. I am buying from someone locally who purchased from TTVJ in December, as long as I have the receipt the warranty will transfer, correct?


----------



## JamieMcC

Hi all I am hoping for a little info.
  
 Wondering if anybody knows what the latest batch of serial numbers are for either the T1's or HD800 I am just curious about how many of these phones are in circulation.
  
 If anybody has brought new recently I am not after your exact number just the thousands and hundreds would be ideal
  
 Cheers


----------



## 62ohm

punit said:


> Here are my comparison notes between the 2 (I am in Finance & accounting, i do not do prose, I do to-the-point, concise notes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the comparison, much appreciated. I auditioned the WA3 and WA6 when getting an amp, but never had the chance to listen to the Lyr.


----------



## MickeyVee

Thank you so much for the comparison between the WA6 and the Lyr.  It was the Biforst/Lyr combo that drove me to the HD800 but I know there's more. I've got the DAC I want now and am searching for a reasonably priced amp that will take it up a notch.  As popular as the WA6 seems to be, there is precious little info out there about the pairing.  Seems like most people like the WA2 or WA22 which are both too big for my desk.  It looks like the WA6 may do it for me.
  
 Quote:


punit said:


>


----------



## punit

The WA6 is good with the right tubes, but the Bhld Crack is better IMHO


----------



## LugBug1

sorrodje said:


> @Lugbug1:  you're banned from the game, Vintage gear are too old. Period.


 





 
  
 Ok... M-stage it is then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
(but you could have an amp that is competitive with very good hp amps if you do go ' vintage'. And for less $ than the M-stage )


----------



## 62ohm

The WA3 is not bad too to drive HD800. IMO its not inferior to the WA6, simply different flavor with one being more clear, detailed and a bit more analytical while the other being more laidback and lusher.


----------



## MickeyVee

I've read the same before.  My problem is that I'm also looking for a "look" since I'm at my desk so much.  The WA6/WA7/WA2 would look so awesome next to the Naim.  So would the V200 but I want tubes again.  So, between the WA6 and WA7 it will probably be the WA6 with the Sophia Princess.  
 There's a Toronto meet next month so hopefully I'll be able to try a few more amps.
 Quote:


punit said:


> The WA6 is good with the right tubes, but the Bhld Crack is better IMHO


----------



## 62ohm

mickeyvee said:


> I've read the same before.  My problem is that I'm also looking for a "look" since I'm at my desk so much.  The WA6/WA7/WA2 would look so awesome next to the Naim.  So would the V200 but I want tubes again.  So, between the WA6 and WA7 it will probably be the WA6 with the Sophia Princess.
> There's a Toronto meet next month so hopefully I'll be able to try a few more amps.


 
  
 Same here lol. If I can overlook the "look" of the amp, I may end up with the GSP Solo SRG-II or Ultra Linear DE instead of WA3. But the Graham looks very understated and unfortunately things like that do get into my way...


----------



## Swolern

frix said:


> I EQ them with equalizer apo, which is a system wide parametric EQ.
> I basically boosted the sub bass by 6dB without affecting mid and upper bass much.
> 
> Also I reduced a peak at 5300hz by 5db and a peak at 7300hz by 6db.
> ...


 
 Great tip for anyone running their HD800 off a PC rig. I myself like the default mids & treble on the HD800, it has become a sound signature for me that no other HPs have. A little bump on the low end is all the HD800 needed for me. Sounds so much meatier & fuller now. Love it! Thanks. 
  
 I have been listening to some lossless tracks of Lindsey Stirling with the Apo adjustment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 She is such a talented violinist! So good!!!


----------



## MickeyVee

Can't tell you how many times I've listened to her CD and watched her videos.  Awesome on the HD800! Have tickets to see her live when she's here in Toronto on June 14.
 Quote:


swolern said:


> I have been listening to some lossless tracks of Lindsey Stirling with the Apo adjustment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Maxvla

I used the WA6 HD800 combo for a few months waiting for my BHA-1 to arrive and it was somewhat lifeless and boring. Lacked sparkle even with the Sophia 274b. It was a relief when the BHA-1 finally came.


----------



## MickeyVee

Cr@p. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can audition the BHA-1 at the same place I got my Naim.. might do so though everything I've read indicated that the BHA-1 is on the bright side. Arrrrrgh.. just want to get a decent amp and be done with it.​ Maybe I'll wait a while and just get the WA2.
 Quote:


maxvla said:


> I used the WA6 HD800 combo for a few months waiting for my BHA-1 to arrive and it was somewhat lifeless and boring. Lacked sparkle even with the Sophia 274b. It was a relief when the BHA-1 finally came.


----------



## 62ohm

maxvla said:


> I used the WA6 HD800 combo for a few months waiting for my BHA-1 to arrive and it was somewhat lifeless and boring. Lacked sparkle even with the Sophia 274b. It was a relief when the BHA-1 finally came.


 
  
 How does the M-Stage compares to the BHA-1 with HD800? I've also heard the same thing as MickeyVee that BHA-1 is more on the bright side, can you verify this?
  


mickeyvee said:


>


 
  
 Yes mate, go for the WA2! Though one of the reason for me to go for the WA2 is because it uses the same drive tube as the WA3, makes things simpler.


----------



## magiccabbage

62ohm said:


> How does the M-Stage compares to the BHA-1 with HD800? I've also heard the same thing as MickeyVee that BHA-1 is more on the bright side, can you verify this?
> 
> 
> Yes mate, go for the WA2! Though one of the reason for me to go for the WA2 is because it uses the same drive tube as the WA3, makes things simpler.


 
 I can confirn WA2/HD800 i have that combo and it sounds great. I also have T1 but prefer the HD800/WA2 combo.


----------



## mediumraresteak

I'm enjoying the WA7/HD800 combo with EH tubes.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Nice setup. Do you have any other DAC. To try with the WA7 ?

Al


----------



## mediumraresteak

alrainbow said:


> Nice setup. Do you have any other DAC. To try with the WA7 ?
> 
> Al


 
 Unfortunately, only the FiiO E17.  I'm fairly content with the DAC for the time being and would only upgrade after listening in person to higher end DACs.  I'm tempted to get the Schiit Bifrost..


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Good idea to listen first. I had that setup sounds good with those cans. In fact that setup sounded great with every can or iem I had. . Try to get a mini meet with other people .

Al


----------



## akhyar

mediumraresteak said:


> Unfortunately, only the FiiO E17.  I'm fairly content with the DAC for the time being and would only upgrade after listening in person to higher end DACs.  I'm tempted to get the Schiit Bifrost..




I'm also content with the built-in DAC inside WA7. But I'm also thinking of DSD-capable DAC once I starts collecting DSD music or converting my SACD


----------



## Maxvla

62ohm said:


> How does the M-Stage compares to the BHA-1 with HD800? I've also heard the same thing as MickeyVee that BHA-1 is more on the bright side, can you verify this?



BHA-1 is slightly brighter, but with better control and better soundstage. The M-Stage is warmer than neutral but not significantly so, highs are detailed but can be a little shimmery, certainly forgivable given it's price. The GS-X incoming is sort of meeting these in the middle, so not warm or bright, a bit more relaxed than the BHA-1, but not as relaxed as the M-Stage all the while the most natural and detailed I've ever heard the HD800s. (I did audition before ordering)


----------



## roguegeek

So this came through on the deals thread...
  
  Quote:


imackler said:


> Hey all. Got some news from www.razordogaudio.com. They'll be no longer carrying Sennheiser products. But while they still have stock, all Sennheiser products over $250 will get 20% off while supplies last, including the HD 800! Use coupon code RAZORDOG20.


 
  
 Brings the HD 800 down to $1,199.96, no tax and free shipping. How good is this price? How low has it gotten in the past?


----------



## elvergun

roguegeek said:


> So this came through on the deals thread...
> 
> 
> Brings the HD 800 down to $1,199.96, no tax and free shipping. How good is this price? How low has it gotten in the past?


 
  
 I bought mine for $889...but that price was an oddity.


----------



## roguegeek

elvergun said:


> I bought mine for $889...but that price was an oddity.


 
 Yeah, beyond the oddities, how's $1200 brand new through an authorized dealer?


----------



## Maxvla

Question is... are they still an Authorized Dealer if they aren't selling Sennheiser anymore?


----------



## roguegeek

For the full warranty, they need to be one at the time of purchase. I don't think there is going to be a problem here. Thoughts on price?


----------



## Greed

roguegeek said:


> For the full warranty, they need to be one at the time of purchase. I don't think there is going to be a problem here. Thoughts on price?


 
  
 Good price for new if full warranty is given IMO. You aren't going to find them new for much cheaper..


----------



## magiccabbage

greed said:


> Good price for new if full warranty is given IMO. You aren't going to find them new for much cheaper..


 
 +1


----------



## koiloco

Dang, Allan Taylor's Leaving At Dawn and In The Groove LP are exceptional on HD800 tonite.


----------



## roguegeek

My credit card hates me. Just did the RazorDog offer.


----------



## Maxvla

Noticing a trend of HD700 users converting to HD800s lately!


----------



## Sonido

roguegeek said:


> Brings the HD 800 down to $1,199.96, no tax and free shipping. How good is this price? How low has it gotten in the past?


 
 Hmm I guess this also includes the HDVD800 for $1600


----------



## roguegeek

maxvla said:


> Noticing a trend of HD700 users converting to HD800s lately!



Not converting. Supplementing.


----------



## Swolern

roguegeek said:


> So this came through on the deals thread...
> 
> 
> Brings the HD 800 down to $1,199.96, no tax and free shipping. How good is this price? How low has it gotten in the past?


 
 It went down to $889 @ Amazon (authorized dealer) a few months ago. Kicked myself that i missed that one.
 http://slickdeals.net/f/6574184-sennheiser-hd800-only-889-free-shipping-sold-by-amazon-com-not-third-party
  


sonido said:


> Hmm I guess this also includes the HDVD800 for $1600


 
 Tempting........


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I can vouch for the hdvd800 as a solid contender for the amp. And an ok dac to start out with. .

Al


----------



## Swolern

alrainbow said:


> I can vouch for the hdvd800 as a solid contender for the amp. And an ok dac to start out with. .
> 
> Al


 
 Does the HDVA 600 have the same components as the amp on the HDVD800 minus the dac?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yes it does. If you have a good dac or plan to buy one with the amp . Then the hdvd600. Is the one to get. 

Al


----------



## punit

Hi Al, would you recommend it over the A.GD Master 8 / 9 for HD 800 (& also for Beyer T1, TH 900 if you have tried them with it) ?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Now that is a tough call. As I had the M8. Well. If I did not have either and given the M8 or 9 drives the HE6 well too and is areal preamp. Then the M9 is what I would.do. It's the complete versatility that drives this decision . But if it is the best for the headphones. Then the hdvd800 or 600. As the level of details is increased with the hd800 and any other headphones used. You must remember kingwa ,s amps are on the warm side of neutral and not the most revealing. 

Al


----------



## punit

alrainbow said:


> Now that is a tough call. As I had the M8. Well. If I did not have either and given the M8 or 9 drives the HE6 well too and is areal preamp. Then the M9 is what I would.do. It's the complete versatility that drives this decision . *But if it is the best for the headphones.* Then the hdvd800 or 600. As the level of details is increased with the hd800 and any other headphones used. You must remember kingwa ,s amps are on the warm side of neutral and not the most revealing.
> 
> Ald


 
 I was looking for *THIS*. . I already have the Master 1 preamp & do not need a pre amp. Also I have a very good Tube Speaker amp lying unused, just waiting for me to buy HE 6 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Thanks AL.


----------



## icebear

swolern said:


> It went down to $889 @ Amazon (authorized dealer) a few months ago. Kicked myself that i missed that one.
> http://slickdeals.net/f/6574184-sennheiser-hd800-only-889-free-shipping-sold-by-amazon-com-not-third-party
> 
> Tempting........


 

 There is an astonishing long list of NON authorized sellers of the HD800 on the Sennheiser website. ( I saw that this was a few month ago...)
 Not that anyone expects this headphone to fail within the 2 year warranty period but if a deal sounds too good to be true, it most likely is.
 I haven't come across anything fishy on Amazon though and the return policy works great in case you are not satisfied.


----------



## Operabuff

Does anyone here listen to their HD-800's while laying down with your head on a pillow of some sort?

Based on photos of the headphones, the cables exit the earcaps somewhat to the rear of the "headband centerline", and I figure this might indicate that there would be "clearance problems" with the cables?

There are a few reasons for my asking:
* It's not *just* that I'm lazy and thus prefer a horizontal position :rolleyes: but more a question of some (hopefully semi-temporary) health issues making me tired and a bit weak.
* The closest store that has the HD-800 up for testing is a bit of a drive away, so if the consensus is that the HD-800 is unusable while laying down, I will probably not even try them.
* My current over-ear headphones (HD-540's) work well enough with a suitably folded pillow, but the cable exit points are "centered" to the headband on those.

Thank you!

Best regards,
Patrik


----------



## kazsud

operabuff said:


> Does anyone here listen to their HD-800's while laying down with your head on a pillow of some sort?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I usually just listen to them sitting in the lotus position w/ palms facing up.


----------



## Sonido

operabuff said:


> Does anyone here listen to their HD-800's while laying down with your head on a pillow of some sort?
> 
> Based on photos of the headphones, the cables exit the earcaps somewhat to the rear of the "headband centerline", and I figure this might indicate that there would be "clearance problems" with the cables?
> 
> ...



I do and it works fine. It doesn't point downwards even if it's positioned low so it didn't get in the way or is bent by the pillow in any way. My only qualm when using when lying down is the clamping force it not enough to keep the cups from drooping down to bed level. Had this problem with pretty much every other headphone as well though because I don't like a lot of clamping force on my headphones. It's because you don't get to rely on gravity to keep the headband sitting on top your head when lying down. I think shortening the headband would keep it in place but I'm to lazy to adjust back and forth between sitting up and lying down.


----------



## Audio Jester

operabuff said:


> Does anyone here listen to their HD-800's while laying down with your head on a pillow of some sort?
> 
> Based on photos of the headphones, the cables exit the earcaps somewhat to the rear of the "headband centerline", and I figure this might indicate that there would be "clearance problems" with the cables?
> 
> ...



You could just put a narrow pillow behind your head so that it does not touch the headphones.


----------



## koiloco

audio jester said:


> You could just put a narrow pillow behind your head so that it does not touch the headphones.


 

 I lay on my wife's lap.  Nothing beats that.


----------



## Sonido

koiloco said:


> I lay on my wife's lap.  Nothing beats that.


 

 Lying on your girlfriend's lap beats that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
Just a joke. I don't know if koiloco actually has a girlfriend/mistress on the side. So if you're his wife, nothing to see here.


----------



## Audio Jester

ROFL.... 

... You know there is a Japanese pillow to replicate such things.


----------



## koiloco

sonido said:


> Lying on your girlfriend's lap beats that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 OMG, you are so bad but so right.  The only problem is that I won't lay still to enjoy the music cuz I wanna something else ....


----------



## magiccabbage

operabuff said:


> Does anyone here listen to their HD-800's while laying down with your head on a pillow of some sort?
> 
> Based on photos of the headphones, the cables exit the earcaps somewhat to the rear of the "headband centerline", and I figure this might indicate that there would be "clearance problems" with the cables?
> 
> ...


 
 i lie down on pillows and listen, its no problem at all.


----------



## azazell86

I have my Burson Conductor + Cardas Clear + HD800 audio setup next to my bed, so I exclusevly only listen to music lying down on my back. The HD800 plus the bigass Cardas Clear cable are very comfortable sitting on my head


----------



## Operabuff

Originally Posted by koiloco:
 "I lay on my wife's lap.  Nothing beats that. "

Originally Posted by Sonido:
"Lying on your girlfriend's lap beats that."


I prefer my ex girlfriends lap...





...ex girlfriend, currently wife... Decided to marry the one I felt was a keeper (and amazingly enough she agreed to it...)...

On topic:
Thank you everyone who replied - I guess I need to listen to the HD-800's.
I recently decided to benchmark my old (have had them since 1991) HD-540's against the current competition, and so far I've tried what is available "close to home", meaning the Hifiman HE-300 and HE-400, none of which would fit me well enough to be even remotely comdortable, and to me sounded "OK" but nothing more, and the Beyer T90 and T1.
The Beyers were almost as comfortable as my HD-540's, and the T1 sounded perhaps a tad better, but not enough to warrant upgrading. The T90 treble spike was unpleasant on some music material.
So I guess the remaining competition is the HD-800...

Best regards,
Patrik


----------



## jasonleehl

magiccabbage said:


> i lie down on pillows and listen, its no problem at all.


 
  
 Actually it is the best headphone I have on a pillow. It is so comfortable and the music is so nice that I fall asleep within 2 classical tracks (not to mention I can't hear my wife nagging).


----------



## 62ohm

Hey guys, can you all give me your opinion here. Would it be better for me to get more tubes for now, or get myself the Matrix M-Stage? (be it the HPA-1 or HPA-2).


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Changing tubes makes good sense and it does make an obvious change when done. But you still have the limitations of the amp.and the tube sound even if just a little. 
So a new amp makes sense but a Ss amp will give you the biggest. Change in sound. What amp are you currently using ?
Al


----------



## 62ohm

alrainbow said:


> Changing tubes makes good sense and it does make an obvious change when done. But you still have the limitations of the amp.and the tube sound even if just a little.
> So a new amp makes sense but a Ss amp will give you the biggest. Change in sound. What amp are you currently using ?
> Al


 
  
 WA3 with Tung Sol 7236 and Tesla 7DJ8 here mate


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Ok it's a woo audio. Pm frank I. He can tell you what to expect with what tubes. 
Keep this in mind people expect changes in amps or tubes to make the change they are looking for. In fact the dac should be the first to be done. As if the dac has the sound you want then the amps can. A good amp has little to no sound. Hence the term wire with gain. 
Al


----------



## Swolern

jasonleehl said:


> Actually it is the best headphone I have on a pillow. It is so comfortable and the music is so nice that I fall asleep within 2 classical tracks (not to mention I can't hear my wife nagging).


 
 Listening to classical music on the HD800 is worth $1500. Not hearing the wife nag, priceless!


----------



## TheDuke990

swolern said:


> Listening to classical music on the HD800 is worth $1500. Not hearing the wife nag, priceless!


----------



## wink

I see some HD800's being sold by some wives with their noses out of joint.
  
 Must check the For Sale ads for some cheap bargains coming up.


----------



## elvergun

swolern said:


> Listening to classical music on the HD800 is worth $1500. Not hearing the wife nag, priceless!


 
  
 You need a can that can isolate really good then (a wife's nagging voice is rather powerful).  Let me suggest the T5p or the Alpha Dogs -- you will never hear your wife again (unless she rips the cans from your head in a rage).


----------



## elvergun

wink said:


> I see some HD800's being sold by some wives with their noses out of joint.


 
  
 Grounds for divorce!


----------



## pdrm360

elvergun said:


> You need a can that can isolate really good then (a wife's nagging voice is rather powerful).  Let me suggest the T5p or the Alpha Dogs -- you will never hear your wife again (unless she rips the cans from your head in a rage).


 
 +1  the Alpha Dog works better in this case.


----------



## Maxvla

If we're talking classical, I'd say the T5p, actually.


----------



## Sonido

elvergun said:


> You need a can that can isolate really good then (a wife's nagging voice is rather powerful).  Let me suggest the T5p or the Alpha Dogs -- you will never hear your wife again (unless she rips the cans from your head in a rage).



There's always Beats. Sorry couldn't help but think of that commercial. Guess marketing does work. I can just picture your wife screaming at you and then you put on those noise canceling Beats in front of her. "Well you can tell everybody..."


----------



## skeptic

62ohm said:


> Hey guys, can you all give me your opinion here. Would it be better for me to get more tubes for now, or get myself the Matrix M-Stage? (be it the HPA-1 or HPA-2).


 
  
 What kind of change in the sound are you looking for?  I had quite a few tubes for my WA3 back in the day, including some very nice amperex 7308 pq's and 6922 pq's.  They do definitely impact the sonics (mostly FR), as do various 6as7's, but no tube combo is going to make the WA3 significantly more detailed and dynamic than what you're presently hearing.  It is a great amp for hd650's but a bit too slow, tubey, laid back and lacking in resolution to really show off everything your hd800's can do.  (As I have noted a time or two before in this thread, I found my bh crack to be far better with hd800's than my WA3, and many in the crack thread have echoed that sentiment even as to the WA2 - which makes perfect sense if you understand the circuits, the impact of constant current, and the ease of dropping nice film output caps in the crack.)  Unless you are just looking to tweak FR a bit, I would encourage you towards an amp upgrade, but I have yet to hear the M-Stage and can't weigh in there.


----------



## elvergun

sonido said:


> There's always Beats. Sorry couldn't help but think of that commercial. Guess marketing does work. I can just picture your wife screaming at you and then you put on those noise canceling Beats in front of her. "Well you can tell everybody..."


 
  
 Well, if you put on Beats then you will not enjoy the music...and if you are not enjoying the music then your wife will not start to nag you.  So, basically, the Beats are useless in wife nagging scenarios.
  
 The amount of nagging is directly proportional to how much enjoyment (away from your wife or girlfriend) you are having. 
  
 The moral of the story is -- look miserable when you listen to your HD800.  If that does not work and she decides to give you grief, switch to the T5p or Alpha Dog immediately.


----------



## Sonido

Matrix M-Stage HP2 for $250 after shipping a good deal? I don't think I can justify getting one though even if it's a good deal and bang for buck cuz I recently purchased the Questyle CMA800R. I guess my only need would be for dynamic low impedance headphones, as I don't have an amp for that. Is the M-Stage good for low impedance non-planars?

Edit: Nvm not gonna get it. Just gonna stick with what's best for HD800 and not worry about getting an amp for a headphone I don't have regardless of the deal.


----------



## pila405

I am really interested in everyone's opinion on the EQ I use at the moment with the HD800 (assuming the rest of you gear is neutral). (Foobar2K; Graphic Equalizer component):


 **I know every headphone measures a bit differently, but if Sennheiser's QC is good enough, the FR should be close.


----------



## 62ohm

skeptic said:


> What kind of change in the sound are you looking for?  I had quite a few tubes for my WA3 back in the day, including some very nice amperex 7308 pq's and 6922 pq's.  They do definitely impact the sonics (mostly FR), as do various 6as7's, but no tube combo is going to make the WA3 significantly more detailed and dynamic than what you're presently hearing.  It is a great amp for hd650's but a bit too slow, tubey, laid back and lacking in resolution to really show off everything your hd800's can do.  (As I have noted a time or two before in this thread, I found my bh crack to be far better with hd800's than my WA3, and many in the crack thread have echoed that sentiment even as to the WA2 - which makes perfect sense if you understand the circuits, the impact of constant current, and the ease of dropping nice film output caps in the crack.)  Unless you are just looking to tweak FR a bit, I would encourage you towards an amp upgrade, but I have yet to hear the M-Stage and can't weigh in there.


 
  
 I don't know, I'm just getting 'bored' of my WA3 already... Speaking of which, did you say 6AS7? I can put 6AS7 on WA3? (they are power tubes, right?) Didn't know that lol
  
  
 Edit: nvm me, I confused '6AS7' for '6SN7'


----------



## ALRAINBOW

That looks fine. It needs a bass boost and a treble cut. Now there are other methods of using eq . Meaning different programs. .
but most important it should sound good to you. 

Al


----------



## pila405

I use the one in Foobar2K because this is the only program I listen to music with, and when I don't listen to music I use the PortaPro which would sound awful if I would use the EQ for the entire system (APO parametric equalizer etc').


----------



## magiccabbage

I have WA2/HD800 and i have no problem with bass or treble. I can only imagine what the DNA Stratus is gonna sound like.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I have the stratus and the WA22 with tube upgrades The stratus is good but no better than the woo. It is clear and not a tuby sound. 
It has A very good sound quality. The stratus also has very good tubes. As well. But in my opinion the HDVD800 amp wise has better details and imaging .

Al


----------



## 62ohm

alrainbow said:


> I have the stratus and the WA22 with tube upgrades The stratus is good but no better than the woo. It is clear and not a tuby sound.
> It has A very good sound quality. The stratus also has very good tubes. As well. But in my opinion the HDVD800 amp wise has better details and imaging .
> 
> Al


 
  
 What do you think about the HDVD800 single ended output?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

You know someone else asked me that same question. And I did not test this. I will be at my office in the morning and I will. Test the hdvd800 both ways. I cannot remember if I ever tried it SE. 

AL


----------



## skeptic

Fraid I've got no cure to offer for simple boredom 62ohm!  Your best bet might be a $10 investment in a spotify subscription for a month where you can find yourself a bunch of new music rather than new gear. 
  
 Al - I'd be interested in your comparison of the trs and xlr outputs from the hdvd800 as well.  I recently read a pretty interesting argument/debate on amb's site that arose out of commentary made by a benchmark engineer on why single ended amps are arguably superior to "balanced" designs.  (As a preliminary matter, its worth noting that "balanced" amps are better described as bridged or differential/push-pull amps, depending on their topology and that the term balanced really just relates to cable designs.)  In any event, if you agree with the engineer from benchmark, building a "balanced" headphone amp is actually a mistake in that it raises output impedance, lowers damping by 50%, and doubles noise and distortion, while doubling the component cost of the product.  He posits that the benefits of common noise rejection and improved slew rate are of negligible benefit as compared to the downsides.  See the first and last pages of this thread for a pretty lively exchange on the topic: http://www.amb.org/forum/benchmark-engineer-on-balanced-v-unbalanced-headphone-amps-t326-30.html


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> I have the stratus and the WA22 with tube upgrades The stratus is good but no better than the woo. It is clear and not a tuby sound.
> It has A very good sound quality. The stratus also has very good tubes. As well. But in my opinion the HDVD800 amp wise has better details and imaging .
> 
> Al


 
 really? I have heard people say the opposite. I heard the HDVD800 twice and was not impressed - preferred my WA2. I would of expected the Stratus to be a much better pairing than the 22


----------



## magiccabbage

Is your DNA stratus a new amp - its not listed in your profile. 
  
 As a matter of interest - what is your fav hd800 amp?


----------



## BournePerfect

Most Stratus/HD800 owners say it's the best they've heard the Senns. Heck even the WA5LE isn't even in my top five amps for the HD800-even though it was by far the most expensive.

-Daniel


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Really. Really. I am to old to lie , do you want a picture. It is a fellow headfiers 

Al


----------



## 62ohm

bourneperfect said:


> Most Stratus/HD800 owners say it's the best they've heard the Senns. Heck even the WA5LE isn't even in my top five amps for the HD800-even though it was by far the most expensive.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 What's your top five amps for HD800?


----------



## preproman

62ohm said:


> What's your top five amps for HD800?


 
  
 The Levi is his number #1..


----------



## ALRAINBOW

What dac did you use when you heard the hdbd800. And did not like it. 
Al


----------



## Revogamer

Anyone compared the studio six to some of the higher end ones? (vs stratus etc)


----------



## Maxvla

alrainbow said:


> What dac did you use when you heard the hdbd800. And did not like it.
> Al



I would assume it's own DAC, the only reason to get the 800, not the 600.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

If so then how can someone say the amp did not impress them , with the dac from the hdvd800. When I say the amp is solid it's not with the internal sac. In fact all of the amps I am speaking about are used with one dac .

Al


----------



## Greed

The WA22/HD800 was not impressive at all in comparison to other TOTL tube amplifiers when I heard it. The Stratus is several notches better. YMMV


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Was the wa22 in BAL or SE ?
Al


----------



## Greed

alrainbow said:


> Was the wa22 in BAL or SE ?
> Al


 
  
 I believe it was SE into a Esoteric CD Player as the DAC. We also tried some CDs. It wasn't bad, just not at the level of the Stratus, BA, etc.


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> If so then how can someone say the amp did not impress them , with the dac from the hdvd800. When I say the amp is solid it's not with the internal sac. In fact all of the amps I am speaking about are used with one dac .
> 
> Al


 
 i used the Nad M51 / Rdac and the dac in the dvd800 - i also heard the dvd600


alrainbow said:


> Really. Really. I am to old to lie , do you want a picture. It is a fellow headfiers
> 
> Al


 
 no i believe you - if you had to pick between wa22 and dna which would you pick?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Greed. The wa22 sounds much better in bal mode. Even when I did a demo of the amp I was told to listen in balance mode input to head all bal. And it is a really good amp. 

Now if I had to pick one and only one that is tough cause the stratus is a more powerful amp. . 

I would stay with the woo wa22. Now this is strictly with the hd800. And in balance mode. 

Al


----------



## Greed

alrainbow said:


> Greed. The wa22 sounds much better in bal mode. Even when I did a demo of the amp I was told to listen in balance mode input to head all bal. And it is a really good amp.
> 
> Now if I had to pick one and only one that is tough cause the stratus is a more powerful amp. .
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would definitely be open to another listen. Typically I'm not a fan of Woo amps, but I haven't heard the WA5 or the Monos, but pretty much everything else. They definitely have a "house" sound, one that doesn't agree with me. With the HD800, I may prefer it with something that smooth, but I doubt it.


----------



## kazsud

greed said:


> The WA22/HD800 was not impressive at all in comparison to other TOTL tube amplifiers when I heard it. The Stratus is several notches better. YMMV


 
 I liked the Wa2 over the Wa22 w/ HD800.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I own the wa5 and the wa22. The 22 is better with the hd800. Much better. The wa5 is fantastic with the HE6. 
But overall the woo amps house sound is not a tuby sound it is close to a SS SOUND clean very detailed . 

Now here is something odd the hd 800 sound very good with the krell I own. And also very good with a speaker amp I own the aragon 8008 BB. NOW GO FIGURE. and I am not the only one that agrees with me . Another headfiers too.

But the hdvd800 is a pretty cool amp it sounds good with headphones and IEMS. . That makes it really Versatel 

Al


----------



## kazsud

alrainbow said:


> I own the wa5 and the wa22. The 22 is better with the hd800. Much better. The wa5 is fantastic with the HE6.
> But overall the woo amps house sound is not a tuby sound it is close to a SS SOUND clean very detailed .
> 
> Now here is something odd the hd 800 sound very good with the krell I own. And also very good with a speaker amp I own the aragon 8008 BB. NOW GO FIGURE. and I am not the only one that agrees with me . Another headfiers too.
> ...


 
 I loved the hd800 w/ the Wa5 but He6 w/ the Wa5 was definitely a step up


----------



## Greed

alrainbow said:


> I own the wa5 and the wa22. The 22 is better with the hd800. Much better. The wa5 is fantastic with the HE6.
> But overall the woo amps house sound is not a tuby sound it is close to a SS SOUND clean very detailed .
> 
> Now here is something odd the hd 800 sound very good with the krell I own. And also very good with a speaker amp I own the aragon 8008 BB. NOW GO FIGURE. and I am not the only one that agrees with me . Another headfiers too.
> ...


 
  
 Most of the Woo amps I've heard are not extremely detailed, actually on the contrary. The only Woo that comes close to the clean sound of a SS was the WA6-SE. YMMV


----------



## ALRAINBOW

It's all an opinion. I also have a WOO WES. For my stax 009 and senn. He60. All the woo amps I have listened too are very detailed to my ears. I also have upgraded tubes on all my amps. No given they sound pretty good with out upgrades . But with them they are really nice. 

Al


----------



## Maxvla

greed said:


> Most of the Woo amps I've heard are not extremely detailed, actually on the contrary.



This


----------



## skeptic

greed said:


> Most of the Woo amps I've heard are not extremely detailed, actually on the contrary.


 
  
 Ditto that.  To my ears, EC and Bottlehead amps both make Woos sound very relaxed and tubey by comparison.


----------



## BournePerfect

62ohm said:


> What's your top five amps for HD800?


 
  
 ZDSE
 BHA-1
 P1u
 m-Stage
 Vali
  


preproman said:


> The Levi is his number #1..


 
  
 Want some peanut butter with that jelly?
  
  
  
  
 I'd imagine the Leviathan would smoke the Woo-even more than the Vali.  (caveat: the price/performance ratio of WA5LE vs Vali/m-Stage is certainly a factor here lol)
  
 -Daniel


----------



## magiccabbage

bourneperfect said:


> ZDSE
> BHA-1
> P1u
> m-Stage
> ...


 
 I love the way you have the Vali in there. Are you interested in the new Schiit YDD or rag? Im thinking of getting the YDD.


----------



## BournePerfect

I'm 100% getting the 'drasil. I'm most likely getting the Rag as well-debating holding out on that one for a hopeful limited black version.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## roguegeek

HD 800 should be arriving any day now. I already have a Lyr and Asgard 2 powering my other cans. How do you guys generally feel about the synergy between those and the HD 800?


----------



## Maxvla

Not ideal.


----------



## 62ohm

bourneperfect said:


> ZDSE
> BHA-1
> P1u
> m-Stage
> Vali


 
  
 Okay then, you & Maxvla made me made up my mind to get the M-Stage.
  
 Also, what do you guys think of the HD800 / Burson Conductor pairing compared to other amps within the price bracket?


----------



## Maxvla

You're at Super 7/Sonett 2 and near Zana Duex territory. Conductor won't keep up.


----------



## BournePerfect

Never heard the Soloist/Conductor. Some like it-some don't with the HD800s. That FOTM seems to have passed though. I agree with Maxvla-get an m-Stage (or Vali) and start saving for an endgame amp for the HD800s. Great, great synergy with the m-Stage, but it isn't quite technical enough to bring the Senns to their potential either. For $150 used though-it's an insane value.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Maxvla

Btw, the Burson website is suspended. Not sure I'd be buying anything from them at present.


----------



## MacedonianHero

I am in no way affiliated with Burson (though I do like the Soloist quite a bit...and I hated the HA-160), but I did ask them on Facebook and here is what they said:
  
 "Technical problems with hosting company Peter. We are considering to switch to another service"


----------



## jsgraha

When I auditioning at local shop, I love p700u (using vega dac). It make mid and high of soloist sound compress. The bass impact of soloist have more bite though. But I still prefer soloist compare to p1u. P1u sq was too polite for my taste. But p700u was really nice with hd800. I even prefer this to liquid gold. I wish it wasn't soo expensive.


----------



## Stapsy

bourneperfect said:


> Never heard the Soloist/Conductor. Some like it-some don't with the HD800s. That FOTM seems to have passed though. I agree with Maxvla-get an m-Stage (or Vali) and start saving for an endgame amp for the HD800s. Great, great synergy with the m-Stage, but it isn't quite technical enough to bring the Senns to their potential either. For $150 used though-it's an insane value.
> 
> -Daniel


 

 I haven't heard the matrix, but I can wholeheartedly recommend the Vali.  It is a superb match for the HD800 and will certainly make you think twice about an endgame amp (it did for me).  If you want a taste of a high quality tube amp the Vali is the place to start.


----------



## MickeyVee

The Vali is an insane vale.  I keep taking it in and out of my system and it's back in again.  I think the Naim has an edge over it but at 17x the list price, it had better! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The Naim definitely has 17x the cool factor. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The Vali is just stunning with the Grado's. I just need to hold off long enough to get the HD800 end-game amp.

  
  
  
 Quote:


stapsy said:


> If you want a taste of a high quality tube amp the Vali is the place to start.


----------



## 62ohm

What about the Conductor vs HDVD800? Any thoughts on that? And how does the Conductor/Soloist and HDVD800/HDVA600 compares to M-Stage? (sorry if this is a stupid question, I hope it isn't).


----------



## pdrm360

roguegeek said:


> HD 800 should be arriving any day now. I already have a Lyr and Asgard 2 powering my other cans. How do you guys generally feel about the synergy between those and the HD 800?


 
  
 I'm pretty happy with my Lyr + HD800 combo but it is definitely not an ultimate setup.


----------



## pdrm360

^^ I think *MacedonianHero* used to drive the HD800 by the Lyr, and he also compared the Lyr with some other amps for the HD800. Maybe he can help!


----------



## punit

pdrm360 said:


> I'm pretty happy with my Lyr + HD800 combo but it is definitely not an ultimate setup.


 

 The Lyr is a good amp, but you are probably listening to about 60% of what the HD 800 is capable of IMHO. Even I haven't heard the HD 800 driven of a TOTL amp like DNA Stratus / Gs-X etc. I am basing the 60% on the following assumption - from Lyr to Btlhd Crack I felt an improvement of 20% i.e moved from 60% to 80% performance , which I assume will improve to near 100% driven by these TOTL amps. IMHO & YMMV.


----------



## pdrm360

punit said:


> The Lyr is a good amp, but you are probably listening to about 60% of what the HD 800 is capable of IMHO. Even I haven't heard the HD 800 driven of a TOTL amp like DNA Stratus / Gs-X etc. I am basing the 60% on the following assumption - from Lyr to Btlhd Crack I felt an improvement of 20% i.e moved from 60% to 80% performance , which I assume will improve to near 100% driven by these TOTL amps. IMHO & YMMV.


 
  
 Honestly I don't think an amp (alone) can improve the sound quality up to 40%. I believe the HD600 is about 70% of the HD800.  30% is a lot in audio quality, IMO.


----------



## punit

pdrm360 said:


> I believe the HD600 is about 70% of the HD800.  30% is a lot in audio quality, IMO.


 
 Agreed. Its all subjective.


----------



## pdrm360

punit said:


> Agreed. Its all subjective.


 
  
 Yes it's all subjective.  It looks IYO, the BHC is a step up from the Lyr.


----------



## punit

For the HD 800, yes.


----------



## pdrm360

Yes, definitely not for the HE-500


----------



## punit

Also very good for the T1 & HD650.


----------



## Swolern

pdrm360 said:


> Yes it's all subjective.  It looks IYO, the BHC is a step up from the Lyr.


 
 I have even heard the BHC be compared to the same sound quality as the WA2 when combined with the HD800. And that came from a user that owned both amps. Now that is impressive for such a much cheaper DIY amp.


----------



## TwoEars

pdrm360 said:


> Honestly I don't think an amp (alone) can improve the sound quality up to 40%. I believe the HD600 is about 70% of the HD800.  30% is a lot in audio quality, IMO.


 
  
 I'm inclined to agree. For it to be 40% you'd have to be comparing an Iphone to a Luxman or something along those lines.
  
 I'd even say a properly setup HD600 is more like 80-85% or the HD800, the rest is personal taste.


----------



## pdrm360

twoears said:


> I'm inclined to agree. For it to be 40% you'd have to be comparing an Iphone to a Luxman or something along those lines.
> 
> I'd even say a properly setup HD600 is more like *80-85%* or the HD800, the rest is personal taste.


 
  
 Just tried to be polite about the percentage


----------



## Swolern

twoears said:


> I'm inclined to agree. For it to be 40% you'd have to be comparing an Iphone to a Luxman or something along those lines.


 
 You think that a high-end amp is only 40% better than an iphone to power the HD800???  I was thinking around 3 or 4 times better (300-400%) or more.


----------



## roguegeek

This is a game of inches and not miles when we describe differences in this hobby which is why it's fun for me. Nuances turn into gaping valleys around here real quick, but the headphone itself is going to get you 85-90% there. An HD 600 is going to sound like an HD 600 on practically anything you drive it from. Everything else is just preference and the level of diminishing returns when touching on amping is different for everyone.


----------



## TwoEars

swolern said:


> You think that a high-end amp is only 40% better than an iphone to power the HD800???  I was thinking around 3 or 4 times better (300-400%) or more.


 
  
 You misunderstand a bit I think, it's not how much better the amp is. It's how much of a difference the amp actually makes in the end.

 In the overall scheme of things the amp is one of the least important components.
  
 For me it's:
  
 source material > transducer > dac > amp > cables
  
 So even if you improved the dac 50%, you'd probably notice a change of 10% in your headphones more.


----------



## roguegeek

Good explanation. I generally agree with how you've weighted everything.


----------



## Sorrodje

twoears said:


> You misunderstand a bit I think, it's not how much better the amp is. It's how much of a difference the amp actually makes in the end.
> 
> In the overall scheme of things the amp is one of the least important components.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I wholeheartedly agree with that point of view.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

What do you mean by transducer ?

Al


----------



## TwoEars

alrainbow said:


> What do you mean by transducer ?
> 
> Al


 
  
 Loudspeaker or headphone (all shapes, kinds and forms)


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Ok I understand now. It's not a line diagram of equipment being used , it is a list of importance. 

Well the list is screwed up. 
If it is digital we are listing importance. 
Then it should. Dac, amp headphone, source . Why simply because the chain must start with the best dac. If not it will not matter what comes next. .

Al


----------



## TwoEars

alrainbow said:


> Ok I understand now. It's not a line diagram of equipment being used , it is a list of importance.
> 
> Well the list is screwed up.
> If it is digital we are listing importance.
> ...


 
  
 Well, there is no absolute right and wrong I don't think. Feel free to have your own list! I won't stop you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Many people also include our hearing and room acoustics and things like that...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yes and please do not take my list as being pompas. I am not. Trying to tell anyone here I know and shut and learn. I am not. I have spent good money on bad ideas. 

If digital. The dac is paramount. The reasoning is the chain begins there and anything after it the change will be obvious. 

So you may source. Is first , not really. The source will always vary, but the dac will not . Look up my chain and ask me why. If we use a heap dac. There nothing any great equipment after can do to get a better sound after. Just think what I am saying. 

Al


----------



## TwoEars

So why no Linn DAC in your collection?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Me I never heard of linn. As regarding dacs. Now do not be set back by the dacs I have. The point is start with the best dac first. And anything you do after you will hear it. 

Al


----------



## preproman

Nope - Headphone / speakers yield the greatest difference.  However, it all starts at the recording.  I agree with TwoEars..
  
 Start with a quality recording.
  
 Select the headphones / speakers you "think" you like.  Build the rest of the rig around them.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Ok we can disagree. Here. I bought the great speakers , headphones and amps . And yes they sound better but never there best until the dac is done. Maybe this is why I have a different view on amps they some here. I am hearing things different. Here is one more little tidbit. Most all cd,s or digital recording sound far better with a really good DAC. . It seems the glare on some recordings is not glare but info the dacs we use cannot make sound properly until you read a certain level dac. Also the USB implinmintaion used on most dacs can be greatly improved witha good USB converter

Like an offramp or Audiophilleo 

Al


----------



## TwoEars

alrainbow said:


> Me I never heard of linn. As regarding dacs. Now do not be set back by the dacs I have. The point is start with the best dac first. And anything you do after you will hear it.
> 
> Al


 
  
 Go and have a listen. Linn Dealers NYC:
  

 Ears Nova, 3 East 28th Street, 2nd Floor, New York, NY 10028, United States Of America
 Innovative Audio, 150 E 58th Street, New York, NY 10155, United States Of America
 

  
  
  
 Fun excursion if nothing else. Linn is was the one that invented and pioneered the "source first" principle in my mind. They have a lot of cred in the hi-fi world and they make beautiful sounding systems.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Thanks I will. Innovations is where I bought the MSB dac from. They sell Wilson audio speakers there. 
I much prefere the infinitys I have to them

Al


----------



## TwoEars

alrainbow said:


> Thanks I will. Innovations is where I bought the MSB dac from. They sell Wilson audio speakers there.
> I much prefere the infinitys I have to them
> 
> Al


 

 Please do. From what I understand you should really like their philosophy. And they sound very, very nice... the sound is kind of understated but tends to suck you in...
  
 Also have a listen to the naim dac if you haven't heard it. Very fun and energetic.
  
 Back to the HD800's....
  
*Ok - so honest question:* How many actually noticed any difference when running them balanced? How much would you say? What's biggest difference (if any) that you noticed?


----------



## khaine1711

twoears said:


> *Ok - so honest question:* How many actually noticed any difference when running them balanced?  What's biggest difference (if any) that you noticed?


 
 The volume?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I honestly do not hear any change when using the hd800 
Balanced other than the volume or when the amp used sounds better 
Used balanced. Example is the woo wa 22 
It sounds far better than SE. So my view on this is it is amp
Base change and not the headphone. 
I also have a phonitor amp. It gels great with the 
Hd800. 

As for the other dacs I will have a listen 
But it's really tough to listen to a room with speakers 
You do not know and make a judgement. 
When i demo info bring my own music that I use 
For reference. This is how I picked the msb
Stack. 
Al


----------



## 62ohm

alrainbow said:


> I honestly do not hear any change when using the hd800
> Balanced other than the volume or when the amp used sounds better
> Used balanced. Example is the woo wa 22
> It sounds far better than SE. So my view on this is it is amp
> ...


 
  
 What about the HDVD800 SE output? do you notice any difference using the single ended vs balanced output?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I will try this today and post my opinion. 

Al


----------



## 62ohm

alrainbow said:


> I will try this today and post my opinion.
> 
> Al


 
  
 Cheers


----------



## JamieMcC

.Wrong bb sorry


----------



## magiccabbage

wrong place man


----------



## JamieMcC

Thats what happens when you have two many pages open! All sorted cheers.


----------



## LugBug1

pila405 said:


> I am really interested in everyone's opinion on the EQ I use at the moment with the HD800 (assuming the rest of you gear is neutral). (Foobar2K; Graphic Equalizer component):
> 
> 
> **I know every headphone measures a bit differently, but if Sennheiser's QC is good enough, the FR should be close.


 
 Thats quite a big dip at the 6k. I personally would try a little less (3 db at most) and I wouldn't have the 4 or 5k dipped at all, as they are already low(4k) and flat (5k) naturally. The 8 and 10k I would dip but a little less than the 6. 
  
 Having the bass going higher at the lowest frequencies will probably give you quite a muddy sound too. You will have the resonances exaggerated. I would lift the bass between 50 and 100hz and then let it roll off gently. After all the sub bass of the hd800 is very good, but more impact can be achieved by creating a hump.  
  
 This is ofcourse just my two cents


----------



## ALRAINBOW

You can try but 3 db is not easily heard as a change. Even though it is a 50 dip in sound pressure. . If you think not pick a freq anything 4 k. And have a friend change back and forth. As long as the volume is not effected you most likely will be not able to hear the change. It might effect the staging , but not clearly to pick out. 

Al


----------



## LugBug1

I have to disagree bud, 2db is a big change to my ears! 3 db is quite a contrast.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

With my IEMS it is not 
Maybe with your headphones 
But have you had someone do the A/B 
AS I asked it's easy at some freqs but not 
At others 
Al


----------



## LugBug1

alrainbow said:


> With my IEMS it is not
> Maybe with your headphones
> But have you had someone do the A/B
> AS I asked it's easy at some freqs but not
> ...


 
 Yeah really don't need to do an A/B test. A quick click to switch the eq off and I hear the difference. 
  
 Must stress that I don't EQ the HD800. I personally don't think they need it. But I can understand anyone wanting to change the sound to cater for a warmer preference.  I do EQ other headphones with very good results though. Both AKG and Grado's desperately need it in the upper mids IMO.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yes but depending on the amp for me they do. Also when you go back and forth does the sound level change. As in my hdpr10. It is a pain as when you enable the EQ it drops about 6 db in spud level 
Al


----------



## LugBug1

alrainbow said:


> Yes but depending on the amp for me they do. Also when you go back and forth does the sound level change. As in my hdpr10. It is a pain as when you enable the EQ it drops about 6 db in spud level
> Al


 
 True. I do use warmer than neutral amps admittedly  
  
 Don't notice any difference with volume level as a whole when activating the EQ. The new Foobar one which is pictured on the original post is very good. You can manipulate the volume level or choose not to. For me, a couple of db can mean dipping just below my thresh hold of annoyance in regards to instruments such as brass and even strings. Its a fine line, but I always have the mentality of less is more! 
  
 I spent years been against EQ of any kind. But the better technology these days with using computer based media players, I've found that the results can be very positive. And far less expensive than component rolling..


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Very well said. And I agree completely. And we all have different wants in music. As I do not like LCD, headphones unless EQ, a bit and fine the he6 and hd800 fine. But not all feel that way. But extreme detail does get fatiging too.

Al


----------



## eelton

How do you find the sound with this EQ?  What are you trying to accomplish?  I assume it reduces the harshness on sibilant recordings, but do you hear any adverse effects?
  
  
 Quote:


pila405 said:


> I am really interested in everyone's opinion on the EQ I use at the moment with the HD800 (assuming the rest of you gear is neutral). (Foobar2K; Graphic Equalizer component):
> 
> 
> **I know every headphone measures a bit differently, but if Sennheiser's QC is good enough, the FR should be close.


----------



## pila405

From the moment I first heard the HD800 they didn't sound neutral, but rather bright to me, but in each and every section they performed phenomenally well so I decided that I prefer to buy the 'phones and EQ the FR to be flatter and more neutral,
 That's all I tried to achieve here, and I believe it did the work quite well.

 It reduces the overly aggressive treble and adds a bit lower bass (where they "roll off", 70-20Hz mostly)


----------



## TwoEars

pila405 said:


> From the moment I first heard the HD800 they didn't sound neutral, but rather bright to me, but in each and every section they performed phenomenally well so I decided that I prefer to buy the 'phones and EQ the FR to be flatter and more neutral,
> That's all I tried to achieve here, and I believe it did the work quite well.
> 
> It reduces the overly aggressive treble and adds a bit lower bass (where they "roll off", 70-20Hz mostly)


 
  
 I do almost exactly the same. There are different ways to roll of the upper midrange/treble but a +3 dB bass boost really brings the HD800 to life for me.
  
 It's an absolutely superb headphone for electronica with a + 3 dB bass boost! Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
 I had a pair of Sony XB1000's for electronica music for a while... then I tried the HD800 with a +3dB bass boost and never listened to the XB1000's again.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 But the amazing thing about the HD800's is that even with a +3dB bass boost it doesn't bleed over into the midrange/treble at all. It's perfectly fine to leave it like this and listen to vocal/classical music. To be honest it's how the HD800 should have sounded without any EQ if you ask me.
  
 I kind of feel/suspect that since the HD800's have such a unique build/driver it's entirely possible that sennheiser didn't get the voicing 100% right... not that they would ever admit that of course. It's just an idea you know. It's one thing to build a pioneering driver technology, it's another to make that drive technology sound exactly the way you want without using an EQ.
  
 So I don't really feel guilty about EQ'ing the HD800's at all. It's a superb transducer with a superb soundstage. Don't like the voicing? Just give it a gentle EQ nudge... job done and problem solved.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I agree and to futher add to the concept. I think every headphone made goes through a design and implementation stage. And then numerous consessions to get the product to a agreed upon completed item. And the superior imaging and fast ness won over a little harshness . The same is for the he6. It has little do dads inside . When I listened to one that was modded it lost it's imaging and brightness. . And it was just a little foam inside not much to make a big change. The hd 800 drives have serial type model number . This is to insure that replacements are exact to the matching driver. And I am reasonably sure we could not hear the subtle change but there instruments can. 

Al


----------



## pila405

I completely agree. I listen to Classical music 99.9% of the time, and I think that if the system is truly neutral it should sound good with anything.

 Though I don't know about the drivers. Maybe. Maybe they thought that exaggerated treble will give a false sense of more detail, but their resolution is superb without any artificial treble boost.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

It's not the system being neutral it's balanced that puts it all together. As no system is really neutral. Here is a another example as you turn up the volume the depth of the music increases not just the overall loudness. If the music is compressed to much or you r system is tonaly unbalanced , that is when it gets louder and offensive.

Al


----------



## Sorrodje

lugbug1 said:


> I have to disagree bud, 2db is a big change to my ears! 3 db is quite a contrast.


 
  
 I noticed the HD800 is extremely sensitive to EQ. that can explains its finicky nature.   I agree that +/-2db makes a real difference with this specific headphone although I tried far less sensitive IEM ou headphones. With them I need to EQ much more to obtain listenable change. 
  
 I only use EQ for experimentations. I don't need to EQ anything on HD800 when I enjoy my favorite music, especially contemporary Jazz or Classical.


----------



## pila405

The amp and DAC can be totally audibly neutral. (Maybe less on the paper, but nothing we can notice, like 0.01% deviation from the the flat FR up until 20KHz)


----------



## Sonido

alrainbow said:


> Ok we can disagree. Here. I bought the great speakers , headphones and amps . And yes they sound better but never there best until the dac is done. Maybe this is why I have a different view on amps they some here. I am hearing things different. Here is one more little tidbit. Most all cd,s or digital recording sound far better with a really good DAC. . It seems the glare on some recordings is not glare but info the dacs we use cannot make sound properly until you read a certain level dac. Also the USB implinmintaion used on most dacs can be greatly improved witha good USB converter
> 
> Like an offramp or Audiophilleo
> 
> Al



I too have to disagree with the DAC being first, at least from a monetary standpoint. Yes, for digital sources, the DAC is obviously very important. However, I think most people are disregarding how easy and cheaply you can get by on a DAC. The diminishing marginal returns curve hits far harder and sooner with DACs. Maybe I misinterpreted the statement, but I took it as spend all your money on a DAC first. I'm surprised anyone who argued against that didn't simply prove by examples. Would you prefer using an iPod straight with the HD800 or better yet the new AKG K812 which works very well from portable sources without a dedicated amp or DAC vs. some iPod ear buds with $1 million dollars to spend on your dac and amp? It seems like people here forgot low-fi headphones existed. Heck even if given the ATH M50 instead of the ear buds, I think the first option is still better. Yes the DAC and amp are important, but spend your money on the headphones first.

I should also add that it's likely that you wouldn't be able to notice the difference of a good DAC or amp without listening through a good headphone.


----------



## MickeyVee

So what would the general expectations/guidelines be for a system percentage wise.. just as a starting point, one example given in the Complete Guide to High end Audio is:
 - Pre/Power Amp $4000
 - Digital Source $1300
 - Loudspeakers $4000
 - Interconnects / Cables $700
 Total Cost $10K
  
 Translate that to HeadFi & HD800:
 - DAC - $487 (13%)
 - AMP - $1500 (40%)
 - HD800 - $1500 (40%)
 - Cables - $263 (7%)
 Total Cost $3750
  
 Wait a minute.. this does not translate well with the HD800.. suggestions or your examples (dollar values optional - more interested in seeing the percentages)
 MV:  HD800 - $1K (29%) , DAC/AMP $2K (59%), Cables $400 (12%) and nowhere near optimal
  
 Possible/Realistic Optimal or at lease liveable: HD800 $1.5K (33%), WA2+Tubes: $1.5K (33%), DAC $1K (22%) Cables $0.5K (12%)
  
 Your setups?


----------



## Sonido

^ It depends a lot on the headphones themselves. The HD800 is one of the notable headphones that depend more so on your chain. If you were to take say the HD598, many argue amping doesn't even make much a difference for that headphones. Spending your money on the HD800 opens the door to justifying the cost of spending more on the amp and DAC.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I think I am misunderstanding something here . I did not do any thing any different most all else here. Inwas simply putting it in perspective as I see it now. I also have my speakers back when the first CD players were being sold. It's only about 20 years or so there is CPU audio. But I do agree with demisnishing returns. But if you say that the dac is least important always , then we have to part there. 

Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

First off through the cable upgrades unless you have an amp with balanced input to output. 

Next the hd800 is a great headphone to start with. And try buying a proven used amp. It saves you money and it saves you time in picking what works. 

For those heahones get a SS amp , no tube rolling save more money. 
Get used dac too. A really good one , but you do not need dsd cause you can use a program like jriver to convert format on the fly .


----------



## MickeyVee

*Define proven.* People are running everything from a Schiit Val to the Woo's to GS-X to DNA to Cavalli. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I still don't know where to go with an amp or how much to plan for but $1.5K-$2K seems to be the magic number where the HD800 start to shine.
 Quote:


alrainbow said:


> Next the hd800 is a great headphone to start with. And try buying a proven used amp.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Ok relax. I can give you some choices
And there are others here as well who can help 
And remember used is best to start 
I a heeding out to diner I'll post when I get back. 
Al


----------



## MickeyVee

I'm relaxed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have spent the last 6 months reading everything I can - In the $1.5K mark, I think I have it down to the Woo WA2, Senn HDVA 600, DNA Sonnett 2 (worried about the 56mw in300 ohms) only 1 of which I can audition local and that the HDVA600. Not much of a used market in Canada and getting anything across the border is a pain, expensive (10% dollar difference plus shipping plus fees and taxes) or both.  In the interim, the Naim & Vali are doing well.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Good reading is fundamental. LOL. we can help. And the hdvd600 is a good choice to start . The stratus is good too but needs tube upgrade 

Al


----------



## James-uk

The only thing left in this hobby to improve on is transducers and they are pretty much nailed. Most well built Amps and dacs are as good as our ears/ transducer need to reproduce the recorded sound accurately.


----------



## Sonido

alrainbow said:


> I think I am misunderstanding something here . I did not do any thing any different most all else here. Inwas simply putting it in perspective as I see it now. I also have my speakers back when the first CD players were being sold. It's only about 20 years or so there is CPU audio. But I do agree with demisnishing returns. But if you say that the dac is least important always , then we have to part there.
> 
> Al


 

 Yeah once you got a great transparent set of headphones like the HD800 that really rely on your chain, then sure the DAC could be the most important and difference making piece of gear. But try to recommending a $1000+ DAC as the next step to someone on the Help and Recommendations forum who's looking to upgrade from their M50. That would be absurd. Spend your money on headphones first, then at a certain point, other gear. Here's my own view: From $0 to $200, spend on just headphones (ie. M50, HD598). After that amping and DAC starts to matter (HD600, DT880), but shouldn't be more than the cost of the headphone since they don't scale as much compared to TOTL headphones (HD800, HE-6), and money is better spend getting a TOTL headphone. Once you have that TOTL headphone, then sure, spend many times more the cost on the amp and DAC because now you will be able to notice a difference with a TOTL headphone.


----------



## Brian L

roguegeek said:


> For the full warranty, they need to be one at the time of purchase. I don't think there is going to be a problem here. Thoughts on price?


 
 Sennheiser has assured me that ALL items sold by us until we are out of stock are covered by full warranty. We will continue to order product until March 9th. I'm guessing we will be completely sold out by end of March.


----------



## roguegeek

brian l said:


> Sennheiser has assured me that ALL items sold by us until we are out of stock are covered by full warranty. We will continue to order product until March 9th. I'm guessing we will be completely sold out by end of March.


 
 Oh thank jebus. Can't wait to get my HD 800 from you guys!


----------



## Maxvla

mickeyvee said:


> I'm relaxed   Have spent the last 6 months reading everything I can - In the $1.5K mark, I think I have it down to the Woo WA2, Senn HDVA 600, DNA Sonnett 2 (worried about the 56mw in300 ohms) only 1 of which I can audition local and that the HDVA600. Not much of a used market in Canada and getting anything across the border is a pain, expensive (10% dollar difference plus shipping plus fees and taxes) or both.  In the interim, the Naim & Vali are doing well.



Don't be too worried about the Sonnet 2, if you have questions though send an email to Donald and he will get you fixed up.


----------



## MacedonianHero

pdrm360 said:


> ^^ I think *MacedonianHero* used to drive the HD800 by the Lyr, and he also compared the Lyr with some other amps for the HD800. Maybe he can help!


 
 It was one of the amps I had on hand and the Concerto, MAD Ear+HD, and GS-1 (that I had on had at the time) all bested the Lyr. It really seemed to only work well with the LCD-2s.


----------



## magiccabbage

macedonianhero said:


> It was one of the amps I had on hand and the Concerto, MAD Ear+HD, and GS-1 (that I had on had at the time) all bested the Lyr. It really seemed to only work well with the LCD-2s.


 
 Your a contributor now - cool.


----------



## MacedonianHero

magiccabbage said:


> Your a contributor now - cool.


 
 I'm still waiting on my merit-badge.


----------



## 62ohm

macedonianhero said:


> It was one of the amps I had on hand and the Concerto, MAD Ear+HD, and GS-1 (that I had on had at the time) all bested the Lyr. It really seemed to only work well with the LCD-2s.


 
  
 I seem to remember a time when the Lyr was one of the highest recommendable amp for HD800.. How time passes by


----------



## MacedonianHero

62ohm said:


> I seem to remember a time when the Lyr was one of the highest recommendable amp for HD800..


 
 I thought it was a fine ortho amp though.


----------



## Maxvla

62ohm said:


> I seem to remember a time when the Lyr was one of the highest recommendable amp for HD800.. How time passes by



Really? I've never seen it mentioned as even a good combo. From the start it was aimed at orthos. Look at the first thread it specifically talks up it's 6W of power. Sounds like an amp designed for HE-6.


----------



## Takeanidea

james-uk said:


> The only thing left in this hobby to improve on is transducers and they are pretty much nailed. Most well built Amps and dacs are as good as our ears/ transducer need to reproduce the recorded sound accurately.





Agreed. Provided there is enough power to drive your headphones it's important to get the headphones right


----------



## 62ohm

maxvla said:


> Really? I've never seen it mentioned as even a good combo. From the start it was aimed at orthos. Look at the first thread it specifically talks up it's 6W of power. Sounds like an amp designed for HE-6.


 
  
 While I was googling for a cheap amp for the HD800, the Lyr often came out as the answer, be it from reviews or old Head-Fi thread.


----------



## olor1n

The Lyr has never been lauded as an HD800 amp.

Those on a budget should really just go the Vali or M-Stage. These affordable components have been endorsed by many experienced HD800 owners. Save your pennies for a better source and then an amp down the track that can really make the HD800 sing.


----------



## roguegeek

62ohm said:


> While I was googling for a cheap amp for the HD800, the Lyr often came out as the answer, be it from reviews or old Head-Fi thread.


 


olor1n said:


> The Lyr has never been lauded as an HD800 amp.
> 
> Those on a budget should really just go the Vali or M-Stage. These affordable components have been endorsed by many experienced HD800 owners. Save your pennies for a better source and then an amp down the track that can really make the HD800 sing.


  

 One of the nice things about this forum is how simply it is to search the archives. What I found, particularly in the original appreciation and review threads, was a consistent message from select users being critical of the Lyr when paired with the HD 800. What I also found was a decent amount of members also saying it worked well. Maybe not the drop-dead best, but from from the picture of it being painted as bad. It seems like it is also echoed in the Lyr specific threads and reviews.
  
 Now all this tells me is personal preference is everything. That being the case and since I do already have a Lyr, I wont be grabbing something new until I've heard it myself. If I was in a place where I didn't have anything at all, that would be a different story, but that's not the situation I'm in. Bottom line is it sounds like it's far from the horror it's being made out to be, so try it yourself and identify your own truths.


----------



## Maxvla

Don't think anyone's made it out to be a horror, just that there are better alternatives if HD800 is your intended combo.


----------



## roguegeek

maxvla said:


> Don't think anyone's made it out to be a horror, just that there are better alternatives if HD800 is your intended combo.


 
 Gotcha. Well I suppose that's just how I perceived it, then.


----------



## TwoEars

olor1n said:


> The Lyr has never been lauded as an HD800 amp.
> 
> 
> 
> Those on a budget should really just go the Vali or M-Stage. These affordable components have been endorsed by many experienced HD800 owners. Save your pennies for a better source and then an amp down the track that can really make the HD800 sing.



 


I know a guy with the HD800 and EC Balancing Act that says the vali is his preferred entry level amp... he says that judging by how it sounds it would be a good value at $500!


----------



## BournePerfect

roguegeek said:


> One of the nice things about this forum is how simply it is to search the archives. What I found, particularly in the original appreciation and review threads, was a consistent message from select users being critical of the Lyr when paired with the HD 800. What I also found was a decent amount of members also saying it worked well. Maybe not the drop-dead best, but from from the picture of it being painted as bad. It seems like it is also echoed in the Lyr specific threads and reviews.
> 
> Now all this tells me is personal preference is everything. That being the case and since I do already have a Lyr, I wont be grabbing something new until I've heard it myself. If I was in a place where I didn't have anything at all, that would be a different story, but that's not the situation I'm in. Bottom line is it sounds like it's far from the horror it's being made out to be, so try it yourself and identify your own truths.


 
  
 Point of reference is critical in this hobby-especially in regards to newbs and Schiitheads.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## roguegeek

bourneperfect said:


> Point of reference is critical in this hobby-especially in regards to newbs and Schiitheads.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/newsearch/advanced/?search=


----------



## BournePerfect

Meaning: reference points of other Headfier's gear/experience etc when to help take their opinions in context.
  
 -Tari>Chuck Norris


----------



## pdrm360

alrainbow said:


> I will try this today and post my opinion.
> 
> Al


----------



## kamalz

mickeyvee said:


> So what would the general expectations/guidelines be for a system percentage wise.. just as a starting point, one example given in the Complete Guide to High end Audio is:
> - Pre/Power Amp $4000
> - Digital Source $1300
> - Loudspeakers $4000
> ...


 
  
    I  am honestly shocked that power conditioner was not in the list.


----------



## NuClear235

So I bought my own HD 800 too. 
 Here is my graph:


  
 Now I am playing it with AK100 + DIY headphone amp.
 I will buy more sophiticated DAC + AMP soon. But what? 
 1000 USD max...

 YULONG AUDIO SABRE DA8 seems not bad!


----------



## TwoEars

nuclear235 said:


> So I bought my own HD 800 too.
> 
> Here is my graph:
> 
> ...



 


Congrats! 

But I don't recommend the sabre dac with the HD800's unless you know what you're doing.


----------



## akhyar

nuclear235 said:


> So I bought my own HD 800 too.
> Here is my graph:
> 
> ...
> ...


 
  
 I've auditioned HD800 with Yulong DA8 before....
 It's a good combo, but most of the songs that I listened to during the audition were DSD files.
 However, with some badly recorded/mastered songs, it was just unbearable....


----------



## NuClear235

Thanx for info.
 I listen almost to Metal music and J.M.Jarre styles only. In FLAC and MP3 320kbs the most.
 A few files in HD FLAC.
 So I am searching rig with this compatible.
 I prefer balanced out...


----------



## palmfish

DSD and FLAC are formats - they give no indication of quality...


----------



## NuClear235

I know, I just wrotte it to see that some recordings are in not perfect but loss quality format MP3.
 So I need some audio tolerance of audio chain.


----------



## nigeljames

twoears said:


> But I don't recommend the sabre dac with the HD800's unless you know what you're doing.


 
  
 Depends on whether you want to maximize the HD800's strengths (speed, detail, clarity, bass control, dynamics) or minimize it's supposed weaknesses IMO.
  
 Obviously as always the quality of the DAC is vital especially with a phone like the HD800's.


----------



## LugBug1

palmfish said:


> DSD and FLAC are formats - they give no indication of quality...


 
 So true. If the original recording is poor then no amount of bits is gonna help it!


----------



## TwoEars

nigeljames said:


> Depends on whether you want to maximize the HD800's strengths (speed, detail, clarity, bass control, dynamics) or minimize it's supposed weaknesses IMO.
> 
> Obviously as always the quality of the DAC is vital especially with a phone like the HD800's.


 
  
 Exactly


----------



## JGOD

Im thinking of by the hd800. I want to use it for gaming on ps4 . I use the headzone h1 as my Dolby decoder. What amp would you recommend to pair with headzone and hd800?


----------



## icebear

twoears said:


> nuclear235 said:
> 
> 
> > So I bought my own HD 800 too.
> ...


 
  
 I'm driving my HD800 directly with a exasound e20 DAC and I'm lovin' it.
 I think that just the choice of processor doesn't necessarily translate into a certain sound character. Obviously the developer has to create a design that when all pieces are put together sound like the real thing.


----------



## NuClear235

nigeljames said:


> Depends on whether you want to maximize the HD800's strengths (speed, detail, clarity, bass control, dynamics) or minimize it's supposed weaknesses IMO.
> 
> Obviously as always the quality of the DAC is vital especially with a phone like the HD800's.


 
  
 I bought HD800 to have the bigest soundstage a instrument separation and some bass (in this order). I tried it and HD800 was the best I heard. Other models missed one of it.
 Now when I have 800s connected to DIY headphone amp and then to AK100 sounds for me enough well. It plays poor recorded MP3s not so horrible. (In the worst case I am using HD 570 headphones) 
 But can be better. So I want to reconnect headphones to balance and I need better amp. Combined DAC+ balanced AMP is best choice.
 Next candidate is Audio-GD NBF-28...


----------



## drez

I don't think it is useful to ask the question "what is the benefit of using HD800 with a balanced amplifier" instead what we should be asking is "what is the benefit of using HD800 with X amplifier which just so happens to be balanced".  IMO if an amplifier is designed to be balanced, then it should be used balanced as that is how it was designed to be used.  Using my balanced amplifier in singled ended results in a more laid back sound, but this doesn't mean that all single ended amplifiers are more laid back than balanced amplifiers.  If there is any possible generalisations about true balanced amplifiers it is that they are _intended_ to have better channel separation and immunity to ground related problems, and possibly more power output (maybe better CM noise rejection?)  I wouldn't buy an amplifier just because it's balanced - I would buy it because it has good performance.
  
 DAC and source are definitely important as HD800 will lay them bare, but I'm not sure how much is best to spend on which area.  In my setup there is easily more money spent in the source, cables, transport and DAC than the amplifier (even my equipment rack costs more than my amplifier) but that is more a reflection of my own choices than any indication of best practice in setting up a hifi system.  Any equipment which improves (not just changes) the performance of a hifi setup is worth investing in in the long run.  Once you have an amplifier and headphones which are transparent enough, you can start to evaluate DAC and source performance, and once the DAC and source are up to a certain level it becomes easier to evaluate amplifier performance.  Its the journey etc...


----------



## arteom

Finally got me a pair of HD-800's, this has been a long time coming . Really enjoying them, have been going through all my favorites relistening. Definitely point out the faults in recordings, especially if a recording has some sibilance. I am using them with an EHHA, with pope tubes. Their bright sound signature is something I am not used to, I think partly that should be mended by mental burn in. I have also ordered some wire and connectors, hoping that replacing the stock SPC cable with copper will help, also ordered some telefunken tubes as I was told they are smoother on top. Wish me luck!


----------



## akhyar

Congrats and good luck


----------



## roguegeek

arteom said:


> Finally got me a pair of HD-800's, this has been a long time coming . Really enjoying them, have been going through all my favorites relistening. Definitely point out the faults in recordings, especially if a recording has some sibilance. I am using them with an EHHA, with pope tubes. Their bright sound signature is something I am not used to, I think partly that should be mended by mental burn in. I have also ordered some wire and connectors, hoping that replacing the stock SPC cable with copper will help, also ordered some telefunken tubes as I was told they are smoother on top. Wish me luck!


 
 Congrats. Still having to wait a day or so until I get mine on my head. I'm really hoping this is end-game for me as my wallet just me right now.


----------



## arteom

Thanks akhyar and roguegeek. I really don't see any reason to go beyond these, for me they are it. Their super detailed, expansive, yet involving sound is quite addictive. I don't see a reason to get anything else.


----------



## akhyar

arteom said:


> Thanks akhyar and roguegeek. I really don't see any reason to go beyond these, for me they are it. Their super detailed, expansive, yet involving sound is quite addictive. I don't see a reason to get anything else.




There's always the STAX SR009.
Don't say I've never warned you.


----------



## roguegeek

akhyar said:


> There's always the STAX SR009.
> Don't say I've never warned you.


 
 There is no way I can justify that price. That being said, there way no way I could justify the HD 800 price a year ago either.


----------



## akhyar

roguegeek said:


> There is no way I can justify that price. That being said, there way no way I could justify the HD 800 price a year ago either.




Aint that what most of us said when we first started this hobby? 
Having said that, I still have the mental block in buying an amplifier and DAC that cost more than the HD800


----------



## David1961

akhyar said:


> arteom said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks akhyar and roguegeek. I really don't see any reason to go beyond these, for me they are it. Their super detailed, expansive, yet involving sound is quite addictive. I don't see a reason to get anything else.
> ...




I heard the HD-800 driven by the HDVD-800 and my GS-Xmk2, at the same time as my 009 / BHSE, and I preferred the SQ from the 009 / BHSE, and that was while using the SED tubes.
I've since started using Psvane EL34PH's with my BHSE, and for me the PH's have taken the SQ from the 009's to another level.


----------



## Sonido

My Crack died on me (bad solder most likely), and I'll have to fix it later. With my Vali at work, all I got left is the headphone out from my Emotiva DC-1 DAC. I'm pleasantly surprised by its performance. It's not as euphonic or musical as my Crack, but it seems to draw out more detail. Though not at the level of the Vali, nor having the Vali's airy treble qualities. Seems to have a signature in between Crack and Vali. So that makes it okay, but not notable or especially great in any way.
  
 So apparently the DC-1 has a default +2 dB bass boost. For me the level bass it about the same as with my Bottlehead setup, so I guess I was getting that bass boost naturally. While it has the same level of bass, it lacks the body for some reason that my Quickie+Crack gave.


----------



## magiccabbage

david1961 said:


> I heard the HD-800 driven by the HDVD-800 and my GS-Xmk2, at the same time as my 009 / BHSE, and I preferred the SQ from the 009 / BHSE, and that was while using the SED tubes.
> I've since started using Psvane EL34PH's with my BHSE, and for me the PH's have taken the SQ from the 009's to another level.


 
 what is the hd800 like with hdvd800 compared to GXX MK2?


----------



## Swolern

Has anyone heard the HD800 paired with the Burson HA-160D, or DS?


----------



## 62ohm

swolern said:


> Has anyone heard the HD800 paired with the Burson HA-160D, or DS?


 
  
 Some said it's quite a sibilant pairing IIRC.
  
 That said, I'm quite curious on how does the Conductor fares against HDVD800 if anyone has heard both.


----------



## magiccabbage

swolern said:


> Has anyone heard the HD800 paired with the Burson HA-160D, or DS?


 
 i think Macedonian hero has.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

swolern said:


> Has anyone heard the HD800 paired with the Burson HA-160D, or DS?


 

 Sharp and dry.

 Sold the Burson in less than a month after I acquired the HD800.


----------



## TwoEars

I had the HA-160 a while ago, I believe it's the same amp section inside.
  
 It was a fantastic pairing with HD650, it really brought that headphone alive and gave it some extra kick and presence. Very highly recommended.
  
 But the HA-160 didn't suit the HD800 at all. The bass got flabby and bloated and a lot of detail and texture was lot.


----------



## preproman

swolern said:


> Has anyone heard the HD800 paired with the Burson HA-160D


----------



## ALRAINBOW

David have you listened to the HE60 and compared it to the 009. ?

Al


----------



## David1961

magiccabbage said:


> what is the hd800 like with hdvd800 compared to GXX MK2?




Because head-fier britneedadvice only wanted to do a comparison between his HD-800 / HDVD-800 and my 009 / BHSE, my GS-Xmk2 was only listened to for a very short time, so I can't recall what the difference was between the two dynamic amps.
David ( britneedadvice ) did the comparison to find out whether the 009 / BHSE were worth getting, and AFAIK he didn't think so, however it would be interesting to know his thoughts if he got to hear the 009 / BHSE using the Psvane EL34PH tubes.


----------



## David1961

alrainbow said:


> David have you listened to the HE60 and compared it to the 009. ?
> 
> Al




Hi Al,

If this is the David you're asking, then no I've never heard the Senn HE60.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yes it was sorry I was hoping it was your name. Anyway. I have a pair and I really do like them better than the 009. 

They color I am sure but they are like the he6 compared to the hd800. The 800 is more accurate but the sound coming from the he6 is more pleasing. I use Wes for now as the BHSE is now almost 9 moths and waiting. Can you PM me the tube upgrade you are talking about. My Wes has the upgrades and I really like it. But when the BHSE comes in I will do a comparison and sell one of them. 

Al


----------



## LugBug1

drez said:


> I don't think it is useful to ask the question "what is the benefit of using HD800 with a balanced amplifier" instead what we should be asking is "what is the benefit of using HD800 with X amplifier which just so happens to be balanced".


 
 Yeah good point. Also, I believe if you are going to go balanced then it should start with your source. Otherwise you won't actually be truly balanced. Your amp will separate the signal but Ideally it should be separated before it reaches your amp.


----------



## skeptic

Disagree.  I think SUSY and certain parafeed amps (like mainline, among others) are the best "balanced" designs, and they accept single ended inputs.  While providing a true balanced output, they don't have any of the draw backs of push-pull or bridged amps - which effectively double distortion, signal noise (excluding common mode), and output impedance, reducing damping by 50%.  Any frankly, common mode noise rejection is irrelevant in short cable runs.  Take a look at the link I posted a couple pages back regarding the debate between amb and the benchmark engineer.
  
 [Edited per Daniel's comment below.  Thanks for the good catch!]


----------



## BournePerfect

L2 is SE output only iirc.

-Daniel


----------



## skeptic

My bad re the L-2.  Looks like it uses input transformers to accept se or balanced inputs, and then becomes a 2 channel amp with a se output.  I thought it was basically the tube equivalent of supersymetry solid state amps (i.e. - 1 channel per board, but they take se or balanced in, and provide balanced out.)  Mainline, by contrast, takes se inputs, has two active channels, and then uses output transformers with secondary taps to provide either se or symmetrical/balanced outputs.  This is the same thing DNA implemented when he started offering balanced output sonetts.
  
 In any event, it is basically amps of this nature (like mainline, sonett and SUSY's) that accomplish the goal of providing a true balanced out while minimizing channels, component costs and the negatives associated with bridged and push-pull designs (unless of course, you need double the power to run truly inefficient cans).
  
 Edit: just confirming that this is, indeed, how DNA designed the output in the balanced version of the sonett.  He explains it very nicely (on http://www.dnaudio.com/DNA-Sonett-headphone-amplifier.html ) as quoted below:
  


> *Some comments about balanced headphone drive*
> I am frequently asked why the balanced output version does not include balanced inputs. This is because balanced inputs are not necessary to provide balanced headphone drive. Being a single ended amplifier, all it needs for input is a single ended (unbalanced) signal. The Sonett operates single ended triode with transformer loading the plate of the 6H30 amplification tube. The secondary windings on the output transformers are center tapped (and grounded for safety), thereby providing a true, differential, balanced output. Thus, you get balanced drive without the complexity from additional balanced input circuitry or input transformers. Again, the simpler - the better.


----------



## elvergun

alrainbow said:


> They color I am sure but they are like the he6 compared to the hd800. The 800 is more accurate but the sound coming from the he6 is more pleasing.


 

 I don’t get these kinds of statements.  
  
 I like my music to be as accurate as possible…as close to the performance as technology can conceivably get us.
  
 Do people who like “fun” cans climb up the stage to adjust the amplifier settings of their favorite bassist in order to make the performance more fun?
  
 I guess this all depends on the type of music one prefers…


----------



## ALRAINBOW

To color the music is to add or take away from accuracy. But pleasing to the ears. Like using eq to make a song or headphone more tuned to your ears. The famous HE90 senn headphones are most certainly clorored. But good to hear you music on. Steril is what the hd800 or stax 009 is . 

Al


----------



## roguegeek

It's just one of these things where there is no write or wrong answer. Some people prefer slight colorization in their sonics. Some want the most accurate reproduction as possible. None of it is wrong or false. I'm in the boat of making sure you are using the right tool for the right job. I'm hoping the HD 800 fit the bill of extremely accurate representation the way the artists intended it to be heard.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I can give this advice. The hd800 and the stax 009 
Are very accurate headphones now given that is the headphone 
So next is a neutral DAC and amp. 
Dacs are mostly neutral but not all sounding the same 
Where amps are different sounding 
Now I can say the hdvd800 is what I think 
As totally neutral. And if you want a really 
Accurate amp and DAC it is a very good choice
The DAC is ok but can be improved at a later date
Al


----------



## arteom

akhyar said:


> There's always the STAX SR009.
> Don't say I've never warned you.




Yeah, maybe if I fell into a giant pile of money. Where I am financially it's just not a reality. I know its out there, and I've heard it, but not something I would consider getting. But then again I would have said the same thing about spending 1k on a headphone (bought my set used). Btw, my earpads are pretty flat/worn. Anyone chime in on sonic differences between worn out and new earpads??


----------



## Dionysus

Got my tracking number from Brian at Razordog audio it shipped last Friday so I should have them Wednesday, hell of a deal I couldn't refuse.
In the meantime I have decided on the HDVD800 but it will have to wait another week to purchase and I will be breaking the 800 in on my current Asus Essence One Muses, I'll be sure to leave my impressions after I get sometime with them. 
Man my wallets gonna hate me.


----------



## Sonido

dionysus said:


> Got my tracking number from Brian at Razordog audio it shipped last Friday so I should have them Wednesday, hell of a deal I couldn't refuse.
> In the meantime I have decided on the HDVD800 but it will have to wait another week to purchase and I will be breaking the 800 in on my current Asus Essence One Muses, I'll be sure to leave my impressions after I get sometime with them.
> Man my wallets gonna hate me.



You getting the HDVD800 @ 20% off as well? It's too bad he doesn't carry the HDVA600. The DAC in the HDVD800 is mediocre from what I hear.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

That is the whole problem. People here about it but do not here it them selves. The dac is fine , it's a 2000 dac but good enough to make the headphones shine. But it is a very reviling dac so good is good and bad is really bad. But feed it some really good dsd or hi hidef and it sings. 

Al


----------



## Dionysus

No he's out of stock on both, his last day is like March 9th for product and Senn is back ordered on both amp so I have to go elsewhere. 
The reason I'm going with the HDVD800 is for some of the same reasons as ALRAINBOW mentioned, I want this to be a setup I will be happy with for a long time and I have faith that the 2 will pair nicely and I won't have to think about what if. I originally had the WooWA7 in my sight but have changed my mine.


----------



## Swolern

Thanks for everyone's input on the Burson 160-DS. Looks like i will be avoiding that one.
  
 Quote:


dionysus said:


> Got my tracking number from Brian at Razordog audio it shipped last Friday so I should have them Wednesday, hell of a deal I couldn't refuse.
> In the meantime I have decided on the HDVD800 but it will have to wait another week to purchase and I will be breaking the 800 in on my current Asus Essence One Muses, I'll be sure to leave my impressions after I get sometime with them.
> Man my wallets gonna hate me.


 
 Congrats. Looking forward to hear your results on your E1 Muses.  I currently have the regular Essence One paired with the HD800 and its amazing! I still have the urge to try some high-end amp/dac to hear the difference for myself.
  
 I was going to pick up the HDVD800 until i read this guys review on the DAC. 


> I compared the it to a Asus Xonar Essence ST sound card which uses a the same dac as the HDVD 800 dac, and the results were nearly indistinguishable. The HDVD 800 was slightly more refined and smoother in the higher frequencies, but I had to listen for it. The first few seconds there didn't appear to be any difference. Not exactly the result you'd want.
> 
> When plugging in a higher priced dac like the Violectric V800, Xonar Essence One Muses Edition or Hegel HD10 the HDVD 800 dac starts sounding like an insult to the amp it's attached to.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-hdvd800/reviews/9629


 
  
  
 My wife bought me the Crack with Speedball for Valentines day so I might be content with that unit, but waiting for its month delivery delay. But i still feel like i need to spend more on a dac/amp to get the most out of the HD800. Thats how it works right?


----------



## Dionysus

swolern said:


> Congrats. Looking forward to hear your results on your E1 Muses.  I currently have the regular Essence One paired with the HD800 and its amazing! I still have the urge to try some high-end amp/dac to hear the difference for myself.
> 
> I was going to pick up the HDVD800 until i read this guys review on the DAC.




I read this too and frankly like anything else it's his ears not mine follow me 
So I have the E-1 sold, but it's a work associate and I am subsidizing the cost so out of pocket it won't hurt as much, the sale is also not final, meaning if I decide the E-1 sounds fantastic I can also decide to keep amp/Dac and not have the expense, so for me it's a win, win.


Meant to add that I also have there regular E-1 I loaded the unit with MUses-01 from a authorized dealer. If you want to order them try these guys they are the real deal. 
I paid 65.00 ea they are not cheap. But I was able to bargain in a little. 
www.mouser.com


----------



## Sonido

dionysus said:


> I read this too and frankly like anything else it's his ears not mine follow me
> So I have the E-1 sold, but it's a work associate and I am subsidizing the cost so out of pocket it won't hurt as much, the sale is also not final, meaning if I decide the E-1 sounds fantastic I can also decide to keep amp/Dac and not have the expense, so for me it's a win, win.



You should consider the HDVA600 as well since you're not getting it from Brian and taking advantage of the 20% off. It has same amp section of the HDVD800, which is the part that gets the praise. Spend the $500 difference on a separate DAC that gets more praise like Uber Bifrost. I owned the WA7 and O2+ODAC combo and having a combined unit sucked for me when I wanted to keep one part of the device only. It gives freedom on upgrading the DAC later on. This is the biggest reason I would choose the HDVA600 over HDVD800.

Just think when you inevitably get a better DAC, you have $500 sitting in the HDVD800 you can't sell. Some combos like WA7, there is no choice. There's no standalone amp section of the WA7. But you can get the standalone amp in this case.

The only reason I can see getting the HDVD800 is if you plan on going balanced, as there aren't many balanced DACs in the $500 range. My Emotiva DC-1 is one of the few in that price range and is balanced. Some have compared it to the Gungnir


----------



## Maxvla

Mini-I Pro is a good match with HD800 if using a dedicated amp. It is balanced and around $500 as well. See my recent review.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

That is one of the reasons to get the 800 over the 600 
And he can also use the DAC as a seperate bal DAC too 
But I do see your point in upgrading. 
But my outlook on upgrades is we all will at some point as technology 
Gets better 
Al


----------



## Dionysus

I do appreciate the recommendations, I have thought that through as well. Man you guys make it hard lol. 
I have considered the separates because the Dac on the E-1 is pretty good, and I could use it for a little bit until I can get a better one, and selling the E-1 may provide that avenue. 

I will have to think this through if Best buy price matches the 20% off I was getting, I may just go with the HDVA600 and call it a day. I have an email as leverage so I might get away with a price match. We will see.


----------



## Dionysus

Has anyone ever buy from here?

http://www.accessoryjack.com/sennheiser-hdva-600-analogue-headphone-amplifier-silver.html?gclid=CPvZ1rPr5bwCFW9p7Aod0SUAxg

1399.00 not to bad.


----------



## Sonido

dionysus said:


> I do appreciate the recommendations, I have thought that through as well. Man you guys make it hard lol.
> I have considered the separates because the Dac on the E-1 is pretty good, and I could use it for a little bit until I can get a better one, and selling the E-1 may provide that avenue.
> 
> I will have to think this through if Best buy price matches the 20% off I was getting, I may just go with the HDVA600 and call it a day. I have an email as leverage so I might get away with a price match. We will see.



At 20% off, you're pretty much getting the DAC for free, so why not? Now if you can get HDVA600 for 20% off...


----------



## Sonido

And just to throw a curveball at you, if you really want to spend around $2000, Bakoon is releasing the HPA-01, a cheaper, less powerful version of the legendary HPA-21 for $1800-$2000. It's a special amp that has a current out mode. The HPA-21 is suppose to be endgame SS amp for the HD800 and many other headphones. No balanced though.


----------



## 62ohm

Has anyone ever tried the HD800/Phonitor pairing? I heard the Phonitor/Auditor actually leans toward the warm side, can someone clarify that?


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


>


 
 ^ What he said. The HA-160 was pretty poor with all the headphones I tried with it. Good thing the Soloist is quite good.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Funny you ask I have that amp and those headphones and they do pair very well. The amp works well most headphones and some IEM,S. 

Al


----------



## 62ohm

alrainbow said:


> Funny you ask I have that amp and those headphones and they do pair very well. The amp works well most headphones and some IEM,S.
> 
> Al


 
  
 Does it really, completely eliminate the "super-stereo-effect" ?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yes it does , it really pretty cool . It cN make you sit to the left or right in a stereo recoding and does mono as well. But mono like you have not heard it before. In mono staging is much more dimensional .

It's only draw back is it 9 ohms output imp. So it does do low imp CIEMS well like the jh13/16!
but does very well the rest I have .
Al


----------



## 62ohm

alrainbow said:


> Yes it does , it really pretty cool . It cN make you sit to the left or right in a stereo recoding and does mono as well. But mono like you have not heard it before. In mono staging is much more dimensional .
> 
> It's only draw back is it 9 ohms output imp. So it does do low imp CIEMS well like the jh13/16!
> but does very well the rest I have .
> Al


 
  
 The Phonitor 2 seems to have a much lower output impedance (0.18 ohm) but also much lower power output. Does this make the Phonitor 1 better for the HD800 due to the higher power output?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Honestly I do not know , I bought this amp on a recommendation and I got lucky it was a good one . It is a German made class one amp. I do not know about the new amp. But there is A simpler model for the one I have though .
And it Appears they have fixed the output imp problem too 

Al


----------



## MacedonianHero

62ohm said:


> The Phonitor 2 seems to have a much lower output impedance (0.18 ohm) but also much lower power output. Does this make the Phonitor 1 better for the HD800 due to the higher power output?


 
 The higher output impedance in theory is better for the HD800s. That said, the GS-X Mk2 is my favourite HD800 amp and it's got a very low output impedance.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Who makes the GS-X Mk2
Al


----------



## MacedonianHero

alrainbow said:


> Who makes the GS-X Mk2
> Al


 
 http://www.headamp.com/


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Thanks I have herd good things about that amp . As I am still waiting on my BHSE , I am not starting another wait. . 

Al


----------



## MacedonianHero

alrainbow said:


> Thanks I have herd good things about that amp . As I am still waiting on my BHSE , I am not starting another wait. .
> 
> Al


 
 It's a fantastic dynamic headphone amp. I've had it for going onto 2 years and have zero interest in anything new.


----------



## preproman

alrainbow said:


> Thanks I have herd good things about that amp . As I am still waiting on my BHSE , I am not starting another wait. .
> 
> Al


 
 Get on the list now Al,  The wait is not long now..


----------



## preproman

macedonianhero said:


> It's a fantastic dynamic headphone amp. I've had it for going onto 2 years and have zero interest in anything new.


 
  
 It's been to years already?  Man does time fly..


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> It's been to years already?  Man does time fly..


 
 Just to clarify, that was with my GS-X, I've had my GS-X Mk2 since July 2013.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Wow that singe amp reviewed. So you have both the he6 and stax . 

And you like the stax better. . For me a I like the he6 better. 
Al


----------



## MacedonianHero

alrainbow said:


> Wow that singe amp reviewed. So you have both the he6 and stax .
> 
> And you like the stax better. . For me a I like the he6 better.
> Al


 
 I had the HE-6. You should be VERY happy with your BHSE.


----------



## preproman

alrainbow said:


> Wow that singe amp reviewed. So you have both the he6 and stax .
> 
> And you like the stax better. . For me a I like the he6 better.
> Al


 
  
  
 OMG don't get Peter started on the HE-6.  Lets keep this to the HD800


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> OMG don't get Peter started on the HE-6.  Lets keep this to the HD800


----------



## paradoxper

^^LOL!


----------



## preproman

macedonianhero said:


>


----------



## eantala

so for the first 3 weeks I own the hd800 I just been only using it with a dragonfly usb and my old laptop while it breaks in, usually listening to Spotify/MOG streaming music
 and I thought they were you know.. just ok.
  
 Today I hooked it up to Gungnir dac and a lafigaro 339 in my bedroom.    Im playing SACD iso files and on Classical music/film scores these headphones do it all and  are just ridiculously good. I can't believe how different and good these things sound.  now Im thinking what I should upgrade as far as components , I think these will make me upgrade many things


----------



## eantala

hd800 sounding so good tonight , cant believe their performance ceiling is so high which I haven't gotten close to.. thinking of buying a primo amp for them like the GS X mk2 ... Im already eyeing out a few things I need to sell so I can start saving up..


----------



## seb7

Had the HD800s for six weeks now and...
  
 all my other headphones are gathering dust.


----------



## Maxvla

eantala said:


> hd800 sounding so good tonight , cant believe their performance ceiling is so high which I haven't gotten close to.. thinking of buying a primo amp for them like the GS X mk2 ... Im already eyeing out a few things I need to sell so I can start saving up..



Add Schiit Ragnarok to your list. Everyone is hoping it plays well with HD800s. It should be out very soon.


----------



## koiloco

maxvla said:


> Add Schiit Ragnarok to your list. Everyone is hoping it plays well with HD800s. It should be out very soon.


 
 Have you listened to Ragnarok/HD800 combo or as you said, everyone is hoping that it would play well with HD800?


----------



## David1961

For a very short time, I heard head-fier britneedadvice's HD-800's with my GS-Xmk2 and yes they're nice sounding headphone, ( just a bit too much soundstage for my liking ) but since using Psvane EL34PH tubes with my BHSE, for me the 009's are easily the best sounding headphones. ( or should I say Earspeakers ) I've ever heard.


----------



## Hedonism

So is it the general consensus that Bryston BHA-1 is a solid amp for the HD800? I'm thinking of replacing my Mjolnir, but not sure if it's worth the investment,


----------



## TwoEars

hedonism said:


> So is it the general consensus that Bryston BHA-1 is a solid amp for the HD800? I'm thinking of replacing my Mjolnir, but not sure if it's worth the investment,


 

 Not going to give you any amazing improvements I don't think. The mjolnir is a pretty darn capable amp.
  
 If you really want to step up your amp game for the HD800 should should probably be looking at a tube amp. Eddie Current super seven for instance.
  
 Or wait until the Ragnarok is introduced and see how that turns out.


----------



## preproman

Quote:


hedonism said:


> So is it the general consensus that Bryston BHA-1 is a solid amp for the HD800? I'm thinking of replacing my Mjolnir, but not sure if it's worth the investment,



  
 That would be a side grade in performance and an upgrade in cost.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

How about the hdvd600 
Al


----------



## preproman

alrainbow said:


> How about the hdvd600
> Al


 
 Good question.  The reviews of the HDV800 and 600 are all over the place.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

It seems that way to me too 
But that is a really neutral amp. 
It is the most neutral amp I have ever herd 
If the music is not really good it makes your teeth rattle
Even if I use my ref DAC it is just WOW WE 
but it does make the headphones sing when 
Good stuff is playing. For me EQ a little down 
At 6 k and add as little at 200 and down 
And then it is fine 
Al


----------



## Hedonism

Alright, thanks for that! I'll keep my Mjolnir for now, and look to upgrade my source instead, which most likely needs something better so that I can properly feed the HD800s.


----------



## preproman

hedonism said:


> Alright, thanks for that! I'll keep my Mjolnir for now, and look to upgrade my source instead, which most likely needs something better so that I can properly feed the HD800s.


 
 What's the budget for the DAC?


----------



## Hedonism

1000ish. I'm thinking of selling my HE500 and Uber-bifrost to finance the upgrade, though I'm debating whether or not I really want to sell the HE500 at this point. It still holds it's own against the HD800, given the right genres. What the HD800 excels at though, leaves the HE500 in the dust.


----------



## azazell86

Be smart and get the Burson Conductor with the PCM 1793 board installed. For me and my HD800 is the best possible choice and everything is in a single box. If you do not have the cash, get the Conductor SL 1793 instead.

You'll not experience a more "real" sound in this price range.


----------



## nigeljames

Or the AudioGD Master-9.
  
 My Master-6 is stunning with the HD800's so the warmer, fuller ( as per a few users reports) sounding Master-9 should be a top class SS amp for the HD800's


----------



## eantala

i'm chomping at the bit to get a proper amp something serious.  but i now have reason now to try to kill 2 birds with one stone as my integragted amp just died.
 I think I want to get something that can serve both purpose of serious headphone and speaker amp.
  
 Im realy waiting now on this new Schiit Ragnarok coming out as its 100/w channel, i know the prototype is floating around at shows but wonder when it actually hits the markets.  
  
 Is there anything else considering that is killer in both applications?


----------



## britneedadvice

Hi
 Many on these pages seem to like having the endorsement of a 'Headphone Supremus'  (or some other grand title) when deciding on the product of choice. So, possibly none better than Jude's endorsement of the Senns HDVD800?? I had one,did everything right except no 'X' factor for me.That something, that's almost  unexplainable to define? I wanted to keep the Senns HD800 for it's qualities with Classical music-so I took the advice of many on these pages and bought the Woo WA22 and maxxed out with some good old NOS British tubes.I now have something which gets close to the original,having attended many live Classical Concerts, which is all you can ask of any audio gear! Other tube Amps may well give a similar presentation  but here in the UK it's very difficult to audition all that's available and certainly A/B tests almost impossible.I've not yet heard an electrostats system that gets close!! Try also looking at the Entreq Grounding products-can make a difference with any system??


----------



## Maxvla

preproman said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> > Originally Posted by *Hedonism* [COLOR=22229C]/img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...



I don't agree. It's clearly an upgrade, but at substantial cost. With Ragnarok imminent, the prudent choice is to wait and see what it can do first.



hedonism said:


> 1000ish. I'm thinking of selling my HE500 and Uber-bifrost to finance the upgrade, though I'm debating whether or not I really want to sell the HE500 at this point. It still holds it's own against the HD800, given the right genres. What the HD800 excels at though, leaves the HE500 in the dust.



HD800 DAC around $1000? X-Sabre, easy answer. Practically made for each other.


----------



## BleaK

maxvla said:


> HD800 DAC around $1000? X-Sabre, easy answer. Practically made for each other.


 
  
 +1


----------



## preproman

maxvla said:


> I don't agree. It's clearly an upgrade, but at substantial cost. With Ragnarok imminent, the prudent choice is to wait and see what it can do first.


 
  
 I stand my experience.  For the cost it's not an upgrade at all.  Both amps share similar qualities IMO both are on the top side on neutral.  you would have to listen long and hard to find the differences between them. (with a good DAC).  Some ever prefer the Mjolnir over the BHA-1.  I don't - as I like the bass response over the the BHA-1 has over the Mjolnir - but not for the price difference.


----------



## Maxvla

OK then state it in a more clear way. You said it wasn't an upgrade period. What you mean is it isn't an upgrade for the cost difference.


----------



## preproman

maxvla said:


> OK then state it in a more clear way. You said it wasn't an upgrade period. What you mean is it isn't an upgrade for the cost difference.


 
 Ha ha ha... You win
  
 Quote:


preproman said:


> I stand my experience.  For the cost it's not an upgrade at all.  *Both amps share similar qualities IMO both are on the top side on neutral.  you would have to listen long and hard to find the differences between them.* (with a good DAC).  Some ever prefer the Mjolnir over the BHA-1.  I don't - as I like the bass response over the the BHA-1 has over the Mjolnir - but not for the price difference.



  
 However -- Not really an upgrade..  As stated in bold.


----------



## paradoxper

preproman said:


> I stand my experience.  For the cost it's not an upgrade at all.  Both amps share similar qualities IMO both are on the top side on neutral.  you would have to listen long and hard to find the differences between them. (with a good DAC).  Some ever prefer the Mjolnir over the BHA-1.  I don't - as I like the bass response over the the BHA-1 has over the Mjolnir - but not for the price difference.


 
 I pretty much agree. I'll take the Mojo bass and BHA-1's treble. But the differences aren't stark enough to be an upgrade one way or the other.


----------



## DSlayerZX

I am honestly considering getting a dedicated amp for my headphone once I have saved up enough money.
 (currently 95% of all my paycheck goes to support my sister and my mother's living expenses.)
 so, let me just make clear of this,
 BHA-a and Mjolnir are on the same level in terms of build quality and neutral, how ever, they have a slight difference in, dare I say it, coloration.
 BHA-1 has better controled bass and high, while a Mjolnir is slightly warmer, is that correct?


----------



## Maxvla

I'll agree to that.


----------



## illyria

I purchased myself a pair of Beyer DT-880 headphones and a FiiO E07/E09 combo as my introduction to post-$40 headphones as a gift to myself, and I have been loving them; however, I was visiting my friend and she allowed me try her HD800 headphones and I fell in love with them.
  
 I am contemplating the purchase in the next month or two, but I don't think I can justify spending more than an additional $500-700 on a DAC/amp combo on top of the HD800.  Are there any setups that would do the headphones justice in that price range, or would it be better to hold off until my budget increases a bit more?
  
  
 Thank you.


----------



## 62ohm

illyria said:


> I purchased myself a pair of Beyer DT-880 headphones and a FiiO E07/E09 combo as my introduction to post-$40 headphones as a gift to myself, and I have been loving them; however, I was visiting my friend and she allowed me try her HD800 headphones and I fell in love with them.
> 
> I am contemplating the purchase in the next month or two, but I don't think I can justify spending more than an additional $500-700 on a DAC/amp combo on top of the HD800.  Are there any setups that would do the headphones justice in that price range, or would it be better to hold off until my budget increases a bit more?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I believe Matrix M-Stage HPA-2 with DAC is recommendable, I am yet to hear it in person though.
  
 edit: you may want to check out this review of M-Stage HPA-2 with HD800 by Maxvla http://www.head-fi.org/products/matrix-m-stage-hpa-2-w-usb-dac/reviews/10470


----------



## Amictus

illyria said:


> I purchased myself a pair of Beyer DT-880 headphones and a FiiO E07/E09 combo as my introduction to post-$40 headphones as a gift to myself, and I have been loving them; however, I was visiting my friend and she allowed me try her HD800 headphones and I fell in love with them.
> 
> I am contemplating the purchase in the next month or two, but I don't think I can justify spending more than an additional $500-700 on a DAC/amp combo on top of the HD800.  Are there any setups that would do the headphones justice in that price range, or would it be better to hold off until my budget increases a bit more?
> 
> ...


 

 I am more music-savvy than tech-savvy, but I often see the advice, concerning the HD800s, 'get the headphones, then gradually up the other kit that you need'. I think that I would agree with that. The HD800s repay the right partner equipment, but, IMHO, they always give you that taste of the high end on what you have. I am listening, as I type, to Hindemith coming from an Oppo 103 through a coaxial connection to a Gungnir and then to a Lyr with Siemens E88CC tubes. All the boxes have PowerKord 300 mains cables and similar quality internconnect, and I am quite sure that I could do better, but the HD800s are singing just beautifully. Buy them and be sure that they will reward your careful system matching as funds become available.


----------



## Dionysus

There here can't wait to listen to them, but first give them a couple of days of break in, before I return with my impressions.


----------



## bearFNF

illyria said:


> I purchased myself a pair of Beyer DT-880 headphones and a FiiO E07/E09 combo as my introduction to post-$40 headphones as a gift to myself, and I have been loving them; however, I was visiting my friend and she allowed me try her HD800 headphones and I fell in love with them.
> 
> I am contemplating the purchase in the next month or two, but I don't think I can justify spending more than an additional $500-700 on a DAC/amp combo on top of the HD800.  Are there any setups that would do the headphones justice in that price range, or would it be better to hold off until my budget increases a bit more?
> 
> ...


 
  
  


62ohm said:


> I believe Matrix M-Stage HPA-2 with DAC is recommendable, I am yet to hear it in person though.
> 
> edit: you may want to check out this review of M-Stage HPA-2 with HD800 by Maxvla http://www.head-fi.org/products/matrix-m-stage-hpa-2-w-usb-dac/reviews/10470


 

 Another choice could be the Schiit uber-bifrost and the Schiit Vali which I find does a respectable job with the HD800. YMMV


----------



## illyria

Thank you all for your replies and recommendations, I appreciate them.


----------



## skeptic

illyria said:


> I am contemplating the purchase in the next month or two, but I don't think I can justify spending more than an additional $500-700 on a DAC/amp combo on top of the HD800.  Are there any setups that would do the headphones justice in that price range, or would it be better to hold off until my budget increases a bit more?


 
  
 If tube amps are of any interest to you, another excellent budget hd800 rig in your price range would be a bottlehead crack amp, with speedball, fed by either a y2 (gamma2) or odac.  
  
 [For reference, the crack is a totally beginner friendly, paint by numbers style, diy kit that also pops up frequently (prebuilt) in the FS forums.  Assuming you are a first time builder, a five minute youtube clip on how to solder will teach you everything you need to know outside of the step by step instructions provided by bottlehead.  It is a reasonably simple and wonderfully satisfying project, and the resulting amp is a total gem that pairs beautifully with high impedance headphones.]


----------



## Sonido

Nice new Final Fantasy song with the HD800


----------



## BournePerfect

maxvla said:


> I don't agree. It's clearly an upgrade, but at substantial cost. With Ragnarok imminent, the prudent choice is to wait and see what it can do first.
> HD800 DAC around $1000? X-Sabre, easy answer. Practically made for each other.


 
  
 I found the BHA-1 to be a much better amp for the HD800 than the MJ. I owned them both at the same time-and it was clear with numerous dacs that the Bryston simply paired better. I never got over the MJ's harsh highs with the Senns, but I loved the mids for sure. OTOH-the Bryston had a much better (3D) soundstage, was less aggressive, had less bothersome highs (lol), and overall sounded more 'musical' to my ears. The MJ was definitely great for the price-but in the end I sold it quick because it simply didn't gel with the HD800 imo, whereas the Bryston was perhaps my favorite ss amp with the Senns. I do feel like they are both in that same middle-tier of amps though overall with the Sens-would be better to stick with a Vali or m-Stage til you can afford to jump up to a higher end tube amp imo. My .02.
  
 -Daniel
  
 -Daniel


----------



## 62ohm

bourneperfect said:


> I found the BHA-1 to be a much better amp for the HD800 than the MJ. I owned them both at the same time-and it was clear with numerous dacs that the Bryston simply paired better. I never got over the MJ's harsh highs with the Senns, but I loved the mids for sure. OTOH-the Bryston had a much better (3D) soundstage, was less aggressive, had less bothersome highs (lol), and overall sounded more 'musical' to my ears. The MJ was definitely great for the price-but in the end I sold it quick because it simply didn't gel with the HD800 imo, whereas the Bryston was perhaps my favorite ss amp with the Senns. I do feel like they are both in that same middle-tier of amps though overall with the Sens-would be *better to stick with a Vali or m-Stage til you can afford to jump up to a higher end tube amp imo.* My .02.
> 
> -Daniel
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Does the WA2 classified as one of those higher end tube amp?


----------



## TwoEars

62ohm said:


> Does the WA2 classified as one of those higher end tube amp?


 

 Definitely.


----------



## Maxvla

twoears said:


> Definitely.



Not.


----------



## BournePerfect

If my WA5LE/HD800 experience was any indicator I'd say no.  Some here really love the WA2/HD800 combo though, and personally I always wanted to hear one.

-Daniel


----------



## arteom

Do you guys know of any US dealers that sell replacement earpads for the hd-800? Headroom is out of stock.


----------



## Sonido

62ohm said:


> Does the WA2 classified as one of those higher end tube amp?


 
 I think they're talking about the likes of ZDSE or Stratus 2A3.


----------



## BournePerfect

sonido said:


> I think they're talking about the likes of ZDSE or Stratus 2A3.




Yep-probably the baseline for high end HD800 tube amping imo. Others would say the S7 is there too. Stratus owners definitely seem to love those amps. 

-Daniel


----------



## TwoEars

The WA2 is lush/romantic.
  
 It's perfect (and could be end game material) for the HD800 if that's the kind of sound you're looking for.
  
 Many other amps are considered "better" though, as usual it's a matter of taste.
  
 Feel free to point out another amp that beats the WA2 for being lush/romantic together with HD800.


----------



## Sonido

Speaking of high end tube amps, is the cheapest one that qualifies as such for the HD800 the EC Super 7 at $1650?
  
 Edit:
  


bourneperfect said:


> Yep-probably the baseline for high end HD800 tube amping imo. Others would say the S7 is there too. Stratus owners definitely seem to love those amps.
> 
> -Daniel


 

 Gotcha. I'll get to hear one at a meet in April. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll see how it compares with both my Bottlehead setup and the Questyle CMA800R I have coming in.


----------



## Maxvla

There are probably others, but that is likely the most well known at the entry point to high end. I'd guess Glenn could build an amp with capabilities like that for less, but I'm not all that familiar with his pricing. I just know his work is great.


----------



## roguegeek

arteom said:


> Do you guys know of any US dealers that sell replacement earpads for the hd-800? Headroom is out of stock.



I thought pads on the HD 800 we're not user serviceable.


----------



## TwoEars

roguegeek said:


> I thought pads on the HD 800 we're not user serviceable.


 
  
 For your pleasure:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/503058/how-to-remove-hd800-ear-pads-finally-i-figured-how


----------



## LugBug1

dionysus said:


> There here can't wait to listen to them, but first give them a couple of days of break in, before I return with my impressions.


 
 Congrats! 
  
 But why put yourself through 2 days of waiting...?! 10 mins for your gear to warm up is all you need! The headphones don't change! Honestly! Its a myth!! 
  
 I can't stop using exclamation marks! Someone stop me!!! 
  
 !!


----------



## oscar777

lugbug1 said:


> Congrats!
> 
> But why put yourself through 2 days of waiting...?! 10 mins for your gear to warm up is all you need! The headphones don't change! Honestly! Its a myth!!
> 
> ...


 
 LOL
  
 Agree.. didn't notice any change with mine also.. and no sibilance/treble harshness whatsoever
  
 IMO


----------



## TwoEars

I _think _I noticed a change with mine.
  
 I listened to them right when I got them and then I left them at high volume with some Massive Attack songs (both very low and high notes) for about 100h.
  
 After that there was less sibilance that what I could remember from before.
  
 Of course... this was no back-to-back blind test and I'm fully aware that my brain can play numerous tricks on me.
  
 But I did think I noticed a bit less sibilance.
  
 Which might have been real or not...
  
 Would be fun if someone had two brand new HD800 that sounded exactly the same and tested burn-in on one!


----------



## roguegeek

I had a demo HD 700 which countless hours on it and a brand spanking new set with me for a whole week of overlap to compare. There was definitely a difference, particularly with sibilance. The demo pair had none. The new pair had a tiny bit. Now, after about 500 hours on the new pair, the minute sibilance is gone. Burn-in is very real, so I'm not surprised you're hearing a difference.


----------



## roguegeek

twoears said:


> For your pleasure:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/503058/how-to-remove-hd800-ear-pads-finally-i-figured-how



Thank you. Thank you. Most helpful.


----------



## Swolern

Looking to upgrade my DAC and then amp later on. What are you guys recommendations in the $800-1300 price range DACs? Im looking for strengths in imaging, soundstage, and instrument separation without being too harsh, but not mushy sounding either. Im currently looking at the Matrix X-Sabre. Any other suggestions?
  
 And can you hear a noticeable difference between 24/192 & 32/384kHz?


----------



## James-uk

swolern said:


> Looking to upgrade my DAC and then amp later on. What are you guys recommendations in the $800-1300 price range DACs? Im looking for strengths in imaging, soundstage, and instrument separation without being too harsh, but not mushy sounding either. Im currently looking at the Matrix X-Sabre. Any other suggestions?
> 
> And can you hear a noticeable difference between 24/192 & 32/384kHz?



Nobody can hear a difference past 16/44.


----------



## britneedadvice

I have recently been made aware of Stefan Audio Art Cables(from the LCD-XC thread).From SAA website,I read the Positive Feedback issue 54 review  'after market Cable options for the HD800'
 Worth reading, whatever Amp!?


----------



## Dionysus

From my experience, it could just be me getting use to the new sound, but it did help me regarding break in on the HD700, I appreciate your point of view about break in. 
So because of work and not really being able to sit for a few hours to listen, I'll let it burn in anyway and take my time this weekend to listen.  I did take a listen sorta a sneak peek listen.


----------



## punit

james-uk said:


> Nobody can hear a difference past 16/44.


 
 I have the CD of "So - Peter Gabriel" & also the 24bit 48kHz download (from the link below)
  
 http://www.bowers-wilkins.net/Society_of_Sound/Society_of_Sound/Music/Peter-Gabriel-So.html
  
 There is a clear difference in the SQ between the 2. But this is not always the case , I have several albums from HD Tracks in 24/192 & I find no difference between that & CD.


----------



## BobJS

james-uk said:


> Nobody can hear a difference past 16/44.


 
  
 Word.
  
 (Am I 20 years too late to express my agreement with this term?)


----------



## James-uk

punit said:


> I have the CD of "So - Peter Gabriel" & also the 24bit 48kHz download (from the link below)
> 
> http://www.bowers-wilkins.net/Society_of_Sound/Society_of_Sound/Music/Peter-Gabriel-So.html
> 
> There is a clear difference in the SQ between the 2. But this is not always the case , I have several albums from HD Tracks in 24/192 & I find no difference between that & CD.



Different mastering. If you were to compress the 24/48 version to 16/44 it would sound identical to any human ear.


----------



## James-uk

I sometimes find the HD800 could do with a touch more bass. For this reason when recently buying a sealed can I went for the NAD viso HP50 because it has apparently got more realistic bass when using speakers in a room as a reference. I've had them a week and I find them way too bass heavy and I feel it compromises the sound stage massively . I now realise never to doubt the HD800s bass. It's perfect!!!!


----------



## punit

james-uk said:


> Different mastering. If you were to compress the 24/48 version to 16/44 it would sound identical to any human ear.


 
 Ah.. thought you were talking in general about 16 /44 vs higher resolution i.e. I assumed your contention was there is no use for resolution above 16/ 44


----------



## punit

james-uk said:


> I sometimes find the HD800 could do with a touch more bass. For this reason when recently buying a sealed can I went for the NAD viso HP50 because it has apparently got more realistic bass when using speakers in a room as a reference. I've had them a week and I find them way too bass heavy and I feel it compromises the sound stage massively . I now realise never to doubt the HD800s bass. It's perfect!!!!


 

 have you tried TH 900, my fav bass can.


----------



## TwoEars

james-uk said:


> I sometimes find the HD800 could do with a touch more bass. For this reason when recently buying a sealed can I went for the NAD viso HP50 because it has apparently got more realistic bass when using speakers in a room as a reference. I've had them a week and I find them way too bass heavy and I feel it compromises the sound stage massively . I now realise never to doubt the HD800s bass. It's perfect!!!!


 
  
 For me I like a +2/3 dB bass boost and then it's perfect. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 But I 100% agree that while there are many, many headphones that have_ more _bass there are very, very few (if any?) that have a higher _quality _bass.
  
 Even the LCD-2 with it's mighty bass thump I think still lacks the last bit of bass texture and detail compared the HD800.


----------



## punit

twoears said:


> For me I like a +2/3 dB bass boost and then it's perfect.


 
 Which specific freq band do you boost ?


----------



## navigavi

swolern said:


> Looking to upgrade my DAC and then amp later on. What are you guys recommendations in the $800-1300 price range DACs? Im looking for strengths in imaging, soundstage, and instrument separation without being too harsh, but not mushy sounding either. Im currently looking at the Matrix X-Sabre. Any other suggestions?
> 
> And can you hear a noticeable difference between 24/192 & 32/384kHz?


 

 The Violectric V800 is in that price range. Own one myself and it's truely really good with the hd800.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/574418/review-violectric-v800-dac (review by project 86)


----------



## elvergun

james-uk said:


> I sometimes find the HD800 could do with a touch more bass. For this reason when recently buying a sealed can I went for the NAD viso HP50 because it has apparently got more realistic bass when using speakers in a room as a reference. I've had them a week and I find them way too bass heavy and I feel it compromises the sound stage massively . I now realise never to doubt the HD800s bass. It's perfect!!!!


 
  
 You should give the Martin Logan Mikros 90s a try.   The have a little more bass quantity than the HD800, but the quality is almost as good.


----------



## skeptic

sonido said:


> Speaking of high end tube amps, is the cheapest one that qualifies as such for the HD800 the EC Super 7 at $1650?




Depends. If you disregard the value of your own labor, mainline is without a doubt the cheapest totl hd800 tube amp.


----------



## arteom

roguegeek said:


> Thank you. Thank you. Most helpful.


 
  
 This is the article that caught my eye - http://www.headfonia.com/what-happens-as-the-cushion-pads-ages/
  
 I bought my pair used, and definitely hear that glare in the lower treble. The article above points that to pads being worn, which I think mine are. Trying to mend that glare-y-ness in other ways, definitely comes through in some recordings more than others. Hoping new pads will take care of it.


----------



## roguegeek

Ooo. That is interesting. I don't think it really gives any information we don't already know in the back of our minds, but it's nice to see it organized and written out.


----------



## roguegeek

Serial # 28243. They're here, but I'm in meetings all day. Even if I wasn't, all I have is a Magni/Modi at the office. Maybe I'll try and sneak a listen in around lunch time. This day just became incredibly long.


----------



## elvergun

roguegeek said:


> Serial # 28243. They're here, but I'm in meetings all day. Even if I wasn't, all I have is a Magni/Modi at the office. Maybe I'll try and sneak a listen in around lunch time. This day just because incredibly long.






There is nothing worse than getting a new toy and not having the time to play with it...


Okay, I can think of something worse: tracking your package to your city, only to find out that it did not get delivered on Friday (and there is no delivery on the weekend).


----------



## arteom

roguegeek said:


> Ooo. That is interesting. I don't think it really gives any information we don't already know in the back of our minds, but it's nice to see it organized and written out.


 
  
 Well, it attributes the glare that is sometimes reported to being partly due to worn earpads. I haven't seen that correlation made before, maybe it was, just had not seen it. 
  
 Congrats on getting your pair! Be sure to post impressions.


----------



## Kyle 491

james-uk said:


> I sometimes find the HD800 could do with a touch more bass. For this reason when recently buying a sealed can I went for the NAD viso HP50 because it has apparently got more realistic bass when using speakers in a room as a reference. I've had them a week and I find them way too bass heavy and I feel it compromises the sound stage massively . I now realise never to doubt the HD800s bass. It's perfect!!!!


 
  
 I find they need a 3-4 db sub-bass boost sloping up from 60hz to 30hz to make them really satisfying for certain non-acoustic genres, when using solid state amps. I also have the NAD HP-50 but I find the biggest problem to be the lack of air relative to the bass volume. This is especially noticeable vs the HD800 which excel in this aspect. Consequently switching from the HP-50 to the HD800 feels like stepping outside into the fresh clean air after being stuck in a dark, squalid basement.
  
 You should try the TH-900 for a bassier sound signature that does not lack for air and imaging.


----------



## roguegeek

roguegeek said:


> Serial # 28243.


 
 Does anyone know how many have been produced so far? _(If anyone says, "at least 28243," I'm have to schedule you for a murder.)_ I'm guessing mine are one of the later ones. If that's the case, they're producing around 5600 a year? That seems high, no?


----------



## brunk

roguegeek said:


> Does anyone know how many have been produced so far? _(If anyone says, "at least 28243," I'm have to schedule you for a murder.)_ I'm guessing mine are one of the later ones. If that's the case, they're producing around 5600 a year? That seems high, no?


 
 I think they just hit the 30k mark.


----------



## Dionysus

dionysus said:


> There here can't wait to listen to them, but first give them a couple of days of break in, before I return with my impressions.





>





> I just received mine yesterday and it is serial #28xxx also.





>





>





>


----------



## Sonido

I bought mine back in December during the great Amazon sellout. It's 25xxx. I think it was sitting in their warehouse for a while hence the sellout.


----------



## magiccabbage

mine is 26xx i bought them in December - to sell 2000 in 2 months seems like a lot.


----------



## Dionysus

worldwide! I don't think that number is high at all.


----------



## 62ohm

magiccabbage said:


> mine is 26xx i bought them in December - to sell 2000 in 2 months seems like a lot.


 
  
 I also bought mine in December and it's 25xxx. 2000 in 2 months would probably mean $3m a month from HD800 alone (assuming they are getting $1500 a pair), quite a lot of money indeed!


----------



## svt time

Just found out I can get a set of these for $670 before tax through a sick work deal. Only problem is, I only have an Asgard 1, and a little dot mk III. What should I do?


----------



## 62ohm

svt time said:


> Just found out I can get a set of these for $670 before tax through a sick work deal. Only problem is, I only have an Asgard 1, and a little dot mk III. What should I do?


 
  
 $670? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Sigh I paid $1,900 (NZD) for mine.. the world is unfair


----------



## svt time

62ohm said:


> $670?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That would CAD as well so $600 ish USD. It's a good deal for sure. I need to know if the amps i have are worth trying, or if I'm better off buying something new while I'm at it.


----------



## Maxvla

Little dot 3 will probably work best. It is an OTL design. I had one with my HD580s many years ago.


----------



## magiccabbage

svt time said:


> Just found out I can get a set of these for $670 before tax through a sick work deal. Only problem is, I only have an Asgard 1, and a little dot mk III. What should I do?


 
 maybe get a vali - its held in high regard by some and its cheap. move onto something else later. 
  
 just a side note - i haven't actually heard it, im going by what others have said.


----------



## Traum

svt time said:


> Just found out I can get a set of these for $670 before tax through a sick work deal. Only problem is, I only have an Asgard 1, and a little dot mk III. What should I do?



Dude, you gotta hook your fellow Canuck (aka. me ) up with that sick price.

On a different note, I am eyeing a local ad for a pair of HD800. The current owner says that the cans have some minor paint chips on it that are quite common on them, though he didn't indicate where those pain chips are. Is this really a common occurrence? Reportedly, the serial number is in the 12k range, and the headphones comes with a 5-feet Cardas cable instead of the stock ones.

What else should I look for in terms of visible / invisible damage and overall conditions in general?


----------



## svt time

maxvla said:


> Little dot 3 will probably work best. It is an OTL design. I had one with my HD580s many years ago.


 
 OTL? 
  


magiccabbage said:


> maybe get a vali - its held in high regard by some and its cheap. move onto something else later.
> 
> just a side note - i haven't actually heard it, im going by what others have said.


 
 Vali is better than asgard? Wow.. can anyone that has listened confirm?
  


traum said:


> Dude, you gotta hook your fellow Canuck (aka. me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Haha I might get in troubs but if I can swing it we'll see


----------



## roguegeek

So I read through the manual because I had nothing better to do just now and it says I can get a diffuse-field frequency response from Sennheiser directly if I visit the site with my serial number. Just went through the site, but I can't seem to find it. Can anyone point me in the right direction?


----------



## Traum

svt time said:


> Vali is better than asgard? Wow.. can anyone that has listened confirm?



I wouldn't say the Vali necessarily sounds "better" than the Asgard, but some prefer prefers the warmth and dynamics of tube amps over solid state, and the HD800 pairs quite well with the Vali. At $120 new (or cheaper if used), it is hard to complain about its shortcomings, but be wary of ringing / microphonic issues.


----------



## svt time

traum said:


> I wouldn't say the Vali necessarily sounds "better" than the Asgard, but some prefer prefers the warmth and dynamics of tube amps over solid state, and the HD800 pairs quite well with the Vali. At $120 new (or cheaper if used), it is hard to complain about its shortcomings, but be wary of ringing / microphonic issues.


 
 Ah I see, makes sense. Is it considered to be more detailed than the Little dot MkIII though?


----------



## Maxvla

Output Transformer-Less, OTL. Works well for high impedance phones.


----------



## Maxvla

svt time said:


> Ah I see, makes sense. Is it considered to be more detailed than the Little dot MkIII though?



I doubt anyone has compared the two. The Little Dot is an older product and the Vali just came out last year.


----------



## MickeyVee

Ummm..no.. dealer markup is about 30% so at best, Sennheiser is getting $1K per including their local distributors.. i.e. Sennheiser USA who has to make money, warranty the items, etc so Sennheiser corporate is getting a lot less. 
 Quote:


62ohm said:


> I also bought mine in December and it's 25xxx. 2000 in 2 months would probably mean $3m a month from HD800 alone (assuming they are getting $1500 a pair), quite a lot of money indeed!


----------



## seb7

svt time said:


> Ah I see, makes sense. Is it considered to be more detailed than the Little dot MkIII though?


 
  


maxvla said:


> I doubt anyone has compared the two. The Little Dot is an older product and the Vali just came out last year.


 
  
 You're in luck. Just read this comparison of LD MkIII and Vali in the Vali thread:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/1815#post_10040009 (at bottom of the post)


----------



## skeptic

svt time said:


> Just found out I can get a set of these for $670 before tax through a sick work deal. Only problem is, I only have an Asgard 1, and a little dot mk III. What should I do?


 
  
 No brainer.  Buy it and worry about an amp upgrade later.  That price is unreal.


----------



## bearFNF

pdrm360 said:


> http://en-de.sennheiser.com/service-support-services-register-your-product


 
  
  


roguegeek said:


> So I read through the manual because I had nothing better to do just now and it says I can get a diffuse-field frequency response from Sennheiser directly if I visit the site with my serial number. Just went through the site, but I can't seem to find it. Can anyone point me in the right direction?


 

 see above quote
  
 Then on the registration page check the box...


----------



## pdrm360

roguegeek said:


> Serial # 28243. They're here, but I'm in meetings all day. Even if I wasn't, all I have is a Magni/Modi at the office. Maybe I'll try and sneak a listen in around lunch time. This day just became incredibly long.


 
  
 Congrats and welcome aboard!


----------



## roguegeek

bearfnf said:


> Then on the registration page check the box...


 
 And now the waiting game begins.


----------



## 62ohm

roguegeek said:


> And now the waiting game begins.


 

 May the odds be ever in your favor...


----------



## Dionysus

I just registered mine. Looking forward to receiving my frequency chart. These phones are so much more revealing than the HD700 and the soundstage is huge. Loving them for the few tracks I've played on them. 

Going to spend a lot of time over this weekend listening.


----------



## Swolern

dionysus said:


> I just registered mine. Looking forward to receiving my frequency chart. These phones are so much more revealing than the HD700 and the soundstage is huge. Loving them for the few tracks I've played on them.
> 
> Going to spend a lot of time over this weekend listening.


 
 Interested to hear your comparison of the Essence One Muses vs the HDVD800. Then use the Muses dac with the HDVD800 and see what you get.


----------



## roguegeek

Alright, I just ran a combination of pink noise and a logarithmic sine through the can for the last several hours. Just got through my first couple hours of play. Way too early to say anything, but I can't help it because one word has just been screaming at me. _Resolving._ This thing may really be it for me. More to come.


----------



## Swolern

^Famous last words.


----------



## pdrm360

roguegeek said:


> Alright, I just ran a combination of pink noise and a logarithmic sine through the can for the last several hours. Just got through my first couple hours of play. Way too early to say anything, but I can't help it because one word has just been screaming at me. _Resolving._ This thing may really be it for me. More to come.


 
  
 They are fantastic right out of the box. No need to burn-in, just listen to music with them and enjoy.


----------



## roguegeek

pdrm360 said:


> They are fantastic right out of the box. No need to burn-in, just listen to music with them and enjoy.


 
 Can't help it. I've had AB experiences that have shown a noticeable difference and since then, I do it to everything. I'm actually gone on a trip all this weekend, so I'm just going to run them through the loop the whole time. Might as well if they're just going to sit there.


----------



## BobJS

roguegeek said:


> Alright, I just ran a combination of pink noise and a logarithmic sine through the can for the last several hours. Just got through my first couple hours of play. Way too early to say anything, but I can't help it because one word has just been screaming at me. _Resolving._ This thing may really be it for me. More to come.


 
  
  


swolern said:


> ^Famous last words.


 
  
 If I had a nickel for every time I've said or heard this, I'd have .....  well, probably a buck or two....


----------



## jh7000

swolern said:


> Interested to hear your comparison of the Essence One Muses vs the HDVD800. Then use the Muses dac with the HDVD800 and see what you get.


 

 I have the Essence One Muses (and I used to have the HDVD800) I spent quite a bit of time trying to find differences between them, but to my ears they sounded so close, I was not able to pick an amp that sounded better to me. So I decided to keep the cheaper amp (Essence One Muses)
  
 I have a April Music Eximus DP-1 ordered ($3000 Dac/amp) so I will be spending quite a bit of time comparing the E1 and the DP1 ... I hope the DP1 sounds way better to me...


----------



## Swolern

jh7000 said:


> I have the Essence One Muses (and I used to have the HDVD800) I spent quite a bit of time trying to find differences between them, but to my ears they sounded so close, I was not able to pick an amp that sounded better to me. So I decided to keep the cheaper amp (Essence One Muses)
> 
> I have a April Music Eximus DP-1 ordered ($3000 Dac/amp) so I will be spending quite a bit of time comparing the E1 and the DP1 ... I hope the DP1 sounds way better to me.


 
 Wow! Thats great to hear! I need to look for some Muses chips! Thanks.


----------



## Dionysus

swolern said:


> Wow! Thats great to hear! I need to look for some Muses chips! Thanks.


 
  
 I have another 2 muses-01 in coming I ordered them overnight from Mouser.com yesterday, These are the last 2 to fill, I will be placing them in the Low pass filter sockets.
  
 I too am very interested in the HDVD800, I had my E-1 non Muses (I've Moded now to a full Muses Edition) for sale but it didn't work out, so I kept it for now. The DAC on the E-1 is very very good,
  
 I have a pair of LME49720/ in the headphone sockets currently and I have another pair of LME49990 so I'll do some Op Amp rolling and report my impression later over on in the weekend.
  
 Swolern---Mouser.com is an authorized dealer for Muses-01 so if your interested they have them in stock, the stuff on eBay is a roll of the dice and mostly fakes many thread on this subject, now Mouser isnt cheap but I have negotiated prices with them and I paid 65.00 ea.


----------



## jh7000

jh7000 said:


> I have the Essence One Muses (and I used to have the HDVD800) I spent quite a bit of time trying to find differences between them, but to my ears they sounded so close, I was not able to pick an amp that sounded better to me. So I decided to keep the cheaper amp (Essence One Muses)
> 
> I have a April Music Eximus DP-1 ordered ($3000 Dac/amp) so I will be spending quite a bit of time comparing the E1 and the DP1 ... I hope the DP1 sounds way better to me...


 
 I also ordered a Questyle CMA800R amp. I will pair it with either the E1 muses or DP1...
  
 I really hope I can hear differences with all of this new High(er) end gear I am getting... I will report back in a week or two when everything shows up to let you know what combination ended up sounding best to me with the HD800 (as well as the other cans I own).


----------



## roguegeek

Welp, my DAC died last night. Looks like I wont be using my new HD 800 anytime soon now.


----------



## palmfish

jh7000 said:


> I also ordered a Questyle CMA800R amp. I will pair it with either the E1 muses or DP1...
> 
> I really hope I can hear differences with all of this new High(er) end gear I am getting... I will report back in a week or two when everything shows up to let you know what combination ended up sounding best to me with the HD800 (as well as the other cans I own).




Im also enjoying my E1 Muses. Ive tried a lot of amps and the E1 is definitely a keeper. Im looking forward to hearing your impressions too!


----------



## pdrm360

roguegeek said:


> Welp, my DAC died last night. Looks like I wont be using my new HD 800 anytime soon now.


 
  
 The Bifrost Uber?


----------



## roguegeek

pdrm360 said:


> The Bifrost Uber?


 
 Si.


----------



## LilBuck

palmfish said:


> Im also enjoying my E1 Muses. Ive tried a lot of amps and the E1 is definitely a keeper. Im looking forward to hearing your impressions too!


 
 You have a BH Crack also right? How would you compare the amp portion of the E1? (I guess that is assuming you use the E1 as DAC for both)


----------



## palmfish

lilbuck said:


> You have a BH Crack also right? How would you compare the amp portion of the E1? (I guess that is assuming you use the E1 as DAC for both)




Yes I do have a Crack (no Speedball) and I do use the E1 as a DAC for both.

The simple answer is that the Crack has more mid-bass which makes it sound a bit "lusher" and "thicker." It gives the HD 800 a little more meat on the bone but a slightly softer focus. In comparison, the E1 gives a feeling of more clarity and speed. It sounds more "athletic." 

But the E1 is not a "detail monster." Unlike the Objective2 and Benchmark DAC1, the E1 does not lean on the thin sterile side. I think the E1 walks kind of the ideal middle ground, if that makes sense...lol.


----------



## jh7000

palmfish said:


> Yes I do have a Crack (no Speedball) and I do use the E1 as a DAC for both.
> 
> The simple answer is that the Crack has more mid-bass which makes it sound a bit "lusher" and "thicker." It gives the HD 800 a little more meat on the bone but a slightly softer focus. In comparison, the E1 gives a feeling of more clarity and speed. It sounds more "athletic."
> 
> But the E1 is not a "detail monster." Unlike the Objective2 and Benchmark DAC1, the E1 does not lean on the thin sterile side. I think the E1 walks kind of the ideal middle ground, if that makes sense...lol.


 

 I had a crack with speedball (which is now sold) that I used to use with the E1. I could hear "slightly" more bass with the crack, but again, to me the difference wasn't enough to make me want to keep the crack over the built in amp on the E1.  I can get almost the same sound by applying a little EQ...


----------



## TwoEars

punit said:


> Which specific freq band do you boost ?


 
  
 Just the very, very low end. Below 200 Hz or so. I even scaled it down to be just a +1.5 dB bass boost recently.
  
 Honestly though, it's not needed most of the time and doesn't effect most music I listen to. It's just for electronica where it gives the music an overall slightly "fuller" presentation.
  
 It's very subtle and there is definitley no booming bass but there is a slighly tonality shift towards having more "body" that I personally prefer.
  
 I could all be synergy based of course, I use a Anedio D1 sabre dac which has a presentation that is "drenched in sunlight" as I think John Darko so eloquently put it.  It's quite possible that if you, for instance, use a Audio GD reference 7 (which I think has a pretty dark tone) there is no need for a bass boost.
  
 Let you ears be your guide...


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Well guys, Ive got a brand new pair of HD-800s coming and along with an Eddie Current Super 7, with some apparently sweet NOS tubes. So I am about to join the club. Gonna do some lengthy comparisons against the HV and 009s
  
 Edit: though both the amp and headphones will be in here a week or so, my dac, the master 7, is on the same slow boat as my KGSSHV and 009s, so it won't be here for like 3 more weeks at the soonest. So I guess I will be using my computers headphone out till then


----------



## Greed

souprknowva said:


> Well guys, Ive got a brand new pair of HD-800s coming and along with an Eddie Current Super 7, with some apparently sweet NOS tubes. So I am about to join the club. Gonna do some lengthy comparisons against the HV and 009s
> 
> Edit: though both the amp and headphones will be in here a week or so, my dac, the master 7, is on the same slow boat as my KGSSHV and 009s, so it won't be here for like 3 more weeks at the soonest. So I guess I will be using my computers headphone out till then


 
  
 Good choices!


----------



## akhyar

Good choice and congrats...


----------



## Swolern

souprknowva said:


> Well guys, Ive got a brand new pair of HD-800s coming and along with an Eddie Current Super 7, with some apparently sweet NOS tubes. So I am about to join the club. Gonna do some lengthy comparisons against the HV and 009s
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I was eye-balling that Super 7 in the sales thread really hard. Looks like you bought it before i could blow my money. Congrats on an end-game setup. 

Sorry about the 3 weeks of hell you are going to have to listen to using on-board audio........


----------



## SoupRKnowva

swolern said:


> souprknowva said:
> 
> 
> > Well guys, Ive got a brand new pair of HD-800s coming and along with an Eddie Current Super 7, with some apparently sweet NOS tubes. So I am about to join the club. Gonna do some lengthy comparisons against the HV and 009s
> ...


 
  
 Yeah I bought Radio_head's Super 7.
  
 Yeah, it'll probably end up being pretty rough, and it wouldn't even be worth it to buy something else cheap to use till then, it'll only be a few weeks, I'll make it!


----------



## LugBug1

punit said:


> Which specific freq band do you boost ?


 
 If I can just chip in here... Its relatively easy to eq bass compared to treble where you can do a lot more damage than good if you don't what you are doing.
  
 Try and aim for the largest peak at 100-200hz and make a gradual curve. Looking at the headroom graphs for reference is helpful 
 http://www.headphone.com/headphones/sennheiser-hd-800.php 
 Try and emulate what the freq line is already. Adding or taking away 2 db but 3 at the most. I say this because any more and you risk distorting everything.


----------



## roguegeek

So first sorta full night of listening to the HD 800 and I'm still not ready to give impressions about sound, but I can give impressions on fit and comfort.
  
 The HD 800 is fairly light on my head. Unlike most full-sized Sennheisers, these have a very light clamping force. Too light. Leaning my head forward or back shifts the cups around my ears and I don't like that. If I look down at my desk, I shouldn't have to worry about a shift of the cans on my head. It's unfortunate. The pads are comfy, but they do take a second to settle in place before the outside material and inside foam set to make a good seal. Normally, this wouldn't be an issue, but because the stability of these cans on my head and their ability to shift, I feel like I'm having to press the cups to my head far too many time to keep the seal. I have a feeling it will get better over time as the pads soften up, but I don't think there can be much done about the clamping force.
  
 Maybe it's just something to get use to or maybe I'm just spoiled from the HD 700 fit. In this specific regard, the HD 700 just waxes the floor with the HD 800 as it is a much more comfortable and secure can on my head. The sonics, though? Well, I'll get to that later.


----------



## Swolern

Hmm. The HD800 never moves around on my head when looking down. Maybe I just have a big head. 


Also it took weeks for me to like the HD800 as I didn't like it at first. You really have to find, not only a good amp/DAC match for it, but the hd800 is very picky in the types of music that in shines with. Some music just sounds flat with the hd800. But when you find music that goes well with the hd800 it's magical and something no other headphone that I have heard can reproduce.


----------



## roguegeek

swolern said:


> Hmm. The HD800 never moves around on my head when looking down. Maybe I just have a big head.
> 
> 
> Also it took weeks for me to like the HD800 as I didn't like it at first. You really have to find, not only a good amp/DAC match for it, but the hd800 is very picky in the types of music that in shines with. Some music just sounds flat with the hd800. But when you find music that goes well with the hd800 it's magical and something no other headphone that I have heard can reproduce.


 
 There is very literally not a thing that isn't impressive with the sonics of the HD 800, but I don't want to be that guy that gushes all over a new can on the first day, so I'm going to give it a little time before I say much. The fit and comfort is a safer topic for now.


----------



## Chodi

roguegeek said:


> So first sorta full night of listening to the HD 800 and I'm still not ready to give impressions about sound, but I can give impressions on fit and comfort.
> 
> The HD 800 is fairly light on my head. Unlike most full-sized Sennheisers, these have a very light clamping force. Too light. Leaning my head forward or back shifts the cups around my ears and I don't like that. If I look down at my desk, I shouldn't have to worry about a shift of the cans on my head. It's unfortunate. The pads are comfy, but they do take a second to settle in place before the outside material and inside foam set to make a good seal. Normally, this wouldn't be an issue, but because the stability of these cans on my head and their ability to shift, I feel like I'm having to press the cups to my head far too many time to keep the seal. I have a feeling it will get better over time as the pads soften up, but I don't think there can be much done about the clamping force.
> 
> Maybe it's just something to get use to or maybe I'm just spoiled from the HD 700 fit. In this specific regard, the HD 700 just waxes the floor with the HD 800 as it is a much more comfortable and secure can on my head. The sonics, though? Well, I'll get to that later.


 
 The fit should be tighter than you suggest. The cups move on two planes but they are a bit stiff so you may have to grab the cup to adjust it on each side to conform to your head. You will find that the lower you pull the cups down the less the clamping force. So try to keep them set as high as possible for your head. Last, you can bend the headband gently to make the fit tighter or looser. In my case I had to loosen them up a little as the clamp was too tight. Hope that helps.


----------



## TwoEars

roguegeek said:


> So first sorta full night of listening to the HD 800 and I'm still not ready to give impressions about sound, but I can give impressions on fit and comfort.
> 
> The HD 800 is fairly light on my head. Unlike most full-sized Sennheisers, these have a very light clamping force. Too light. Leaning my head forward or back shifts the cups around my ears and I don't like that. If I look down at my desk, I shouldn't have to worry about a shift of the cans on my head. It's unfortunate. The pads are comfy, but they do take a second to settle in place before the outside material and inside foam set to make a good seal. Normally, this wouldn't be an issue, but because the stability of these cans on my head and their ability to shift, I feel like I'm having to press the cups to my head far too many time to keep the seal. I have a feeling it will get better over time as the pads soften up, but I don't think there can be much done about the clamping force.
> 
> Maybe it's just something to get use to or maybe I'm just spoiled from the HD 700 fit. In this specific regard, the HD 700 just waxes the floor with the HD 800 as it is a much more comfortable and secure can on my head. The sonics, though? Well, I'll get to that later.


 
  
 Congrats!
  
 Strange though, I can move my head without the HD800 sliding around. I think I have  a pretty normal head....
  
 Granted - I'm not headbanging or moving my head fast when I have headphones on.
  
 The clamping force isn't much, just enough to make contact.
  
 I think you'll get used to them, I personally find them to be the most comfortable headphones I've ever tried or owned. Together with the HD650/600/590 that is.... Sennheiser knows how to make comfortable headphones! Hifiman could take a couple of lessons from them.


----------



## James-uk

On the subject of the fit, what number notch do you have the headband set to? I can have it set anywhere from 4-6 but I find 4 the tighter more secure fit but my ears are probably slightly below the middle of the cup. Basically I'm just trying to gauge if I have a big head !


----------



## TwoEars

james-uk said:


> On the subject of the fit, what number notch do you have the headband set to? I can have it set anywhere from 4-6 but I find 4 the tighter more secure fit but my ears are probably slightly below the middle of the cup. Basically I'm just trying to gauge if I have a big head !


 

 On the sixth click from fully compressed on both sides is what I like. Puts the center of the round headphone outer shell right at the level of my ear canal, and gives me very good fit. Fairly medium sized head I think.
  
 The sound changes quite a lot depending on how you move them around so you might want to experiment.


----------



## LugBug1

I have one notch lower at one side. I have one ear lower than the other


----------



## David1961

When I first got my HD-600's, I found them to be tight fitting, but after using them a few times the tightness went away to which I now find them to be extremely comfortable.
When I did the mod to my SR-009's and LCD-XC's, I used two complete replacement headbands, one for the HD-600 and the other for the HD-650.
Comfort wise, I find both my 009's and LCD's to be as comfortable as my HD-600's, even though both headphones are quite a lot heavier than the HD-600's.

P.S. The two headphones I'm referring to are on my Avatar.


----------



## James-uk

lugbug1 said:


> I have one notch lower at one side. I have one ear lower than the other



I forgot to mention I also do that . Stupid non symmetrical head. I read somewhere once that the more symmetrical you are the better looking you are......... :-/


----------



## Sorrodje

lugbug1 said:


> I have one notch lower at one side. I have one ear lower than the other


 
  
  

  
  




  
  
 @Roguegeek : I've the same problem. I much prefer tighter clamp


----------



## James-uk

sorrodje said:


> :tongue_smile:
> 
> 
> @Roguegeek : I've the same problem. I much prefer tighter clamp




Pmsl!


----------



## Sorrodje

I apologize to Lugbug1 and his family. Posting personal pics grabbed on Facebook is unfair.  
  
  
 I'm so sorry


----------



## TwoEars

PMSL indeed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I was thinking of posting something like that but I'm on Jude's "bad boy" list right now so I have to keep my shoes shined and shirt tucked in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Remember - we're not laughing at you, we're laughing near you!


----------



## Sorrodje

To go back in topic : I currently give a try to an O2 amp.  Anyone else tried it ?


----------



## hekeli

sorrodje said:


> To go back in topic : I currently give a try to an O2 amp.  Anyone else tried it ?


 
  
 Oh yeah I just received one again, I like the new desktop version from walter. I'm going to get to the bottom of the "myth" and do some careful comparison with my Benchmark DAC2..


----------



## Sorrodje

Oh that's fine. I do the same thing here : REGA dac + MG Head vs REGA DAC + O2  as I did for the Schiit Vali a few days ago ...


----------



## palmfish

hekeli said:


> Oh yeah I just received one again, I like the new desktop version from walter. I'm going to get to the bottom of the "myth" and do some careful comparison with my Benchmark DAC2..


 
  
 I have never seen that version before. It looks good. What is the purpose of the front input since there is also a rear input but no selector? Are they simply tied together? And the rear output allows it to be used as a preamp?
  
 Im curious to hear your opinion. When I had the O2 and DAC1 I couldnt tell them apart. Cliche, I know, but it is what it is...


----------



## Sorrodje

Seriously I'm really impressed. With both my REGA and my NFB12.1 , this litlle amp sounds very good.  A little bit more edginess than my MG Head but not less impact & body. Maybe a bit looser bass but overally the result is good.  . I'm even more surprised to see that O2 drive my HE-4 perfectly to very loud volumes.


----------



## Dionysus

I Loaded my Asus E-1 with the last 2 Muses-01 OpAmps and it is now moded to a full Muses-01 edition, minus the difference in the pot and gain switch the Muses edition brings. My HD800 has roughly 45 hours of burn in, so decided to have a nice listening session with the wife out of town and the kids away 

Ok so coming from the HD700, the 800 are a tad heavier but not by much, the clamping works well with me and I had no fatigue or any complaints. The HD700 are more comfortable and lighter. I don't think theres a more comfortable full size can than the HD700 at least that I've tried but the 800 are not to far way. 

Some quick observations....
I think the one thing that you immediately notice about the 800 is the sound stage it s really big, my room was quite and dark and it's was as though I was listening to my Paradigm studio 20 for a second. 
The Other thing I notice was how much air, detail, and how super resolving these cans are, it's so much fun when you listen to a track for the 1000th time and you picked something that you may have never noticed and that's what it was like listening to this combo last night what was going to be a short listening session when I started at 9m lasted to after 2:am I couldn't get enough. Anyways that's my quick impression, the HD800 are going to stay with me for while I don't see myself wanting another set of cans, now the Amp well..


----------



## TwoEars

Nice write up there Bacchus,
  
 Speaking of amps.... got this in the mail yesterday.
  

  
 Balanced no less, and with some fancy tubes as well.
  
 Impressions to follow


----------



## 62ohm

I've just bought Lindsey Stirling CD, which I think is my first and so far only bass heavy album and I am really, really surprised by the amount of bass the HD800 actually have with bass heavy music. I thought these are supposed to have anemic bass, but really, IMO the bass quantity can still satisfy bass-heads.


----------



## LugBug1

james-uk said:


> I forgot to mention I also do that . Stupid non symmetrical head. I read somewhere once that the more symmetrical you are the better looking you are......... :-/


 
  
  


sorrodje said:


> I apologize to Lugbug1 and his family. Posting personal pics grabbed on Facebook is unfair.
> 
> 
> I'm so sorry


 
  
  


twoears said:


> PMSL indeed!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 ROFL!! 
  
 Hey best laugh I've had today


----------



## MickeyVee

*Sweet!! Congrats! *Why os there no drool emoticon? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 In my research for a TOTL amp, eagerly waiting on your impressions.
  
 Quote:


twoears said:


> Nice write up there Bacchus,
> 
> Speaking of amps.... got this in the mail yesterday.
> 
> ...


----------



## James-uk

62ohm said:


> I've just bought Lindsey Stirling CD, which I think is my first and so far only bass heavy album and I am really, really surprised by the amount of bass the HD800 actually have with bass heavy music. I thought these are supposed to have anemic bass, but really, IMO the bass quantity can still satisfy bass-heads.



I've not heard of her, do you recommend the album ?


----------



## YoengJyh

Have any one here heard the HD800 via EarMax Pro Silver Edition? It is an OTL amp too.
  
 Price is not cheap for this tiny amp... is about 850euro new.


----------



## TwoEars

james-uk said:


> I've not heard of her, do you recommend the album ?


 
  

  
 Well... she's got some kind of talent that's for sure.
  
 IMHO she's trying a bit too hard and I find it a bit hard to relax and just enjoy her music. I get the impression that the only message her music has is "I'm hot, I'm sexy and I can play violin! Look at me!"
  
 But then she is pretty darn young and I'm sure she's having the time of her life so i don't blame her. I would like her a lot better if she wasn't so showy.
  
 I prefer artists that are artists/musicians first and performers second.
  
 For contrast & clarification: This is being an ART-ist first and performer second:


----------



## magiccabbage

twoears said:


> Nice write up there Bacchus,
> 
> Speaking of amps.... got this in the mail yesterday.
> 
> ...


 
 you will have to post loads of pics of that amp


----------



## Eee Pee

Sonett and HD 800s are nice.


----------



## koiloco

twoears said:


> Well... she's got some kind of talent that's for sure.
> 
> *IMHO she's trying a bit too hard and I find it a bit hard to relax and just enjoy her music. I get the impression that the only message her music has is "I'm hot, I'm sexy and I can play violin! Look at me!"*
> 
> ...




  
 +1.  Her violin skill is alright; nothing compared to the violin greats.  I do like how she's bringing a classical instrument into a modern genre while looking good/hot doing it.  Very enjoyable.


----------



## arteom

I am pretty happy with my EHHA for amplification, but did just buy an opus DAC from the FS forums. I think the my Stello DA100 D/A stage is holding me back, as much as I do enjoy it's analog stage (it will find a good home in my bedroom). Hoping the Opus will perform near $1k level, anyone have any experience with the opus and the HD-800?


----------



## icebear

twoears said:


> ....  Well... she's got some kind of talent that's for sure.
> 
> IMHO she's trying a bit too hard and I find it a bit hard to relax and just enjoy her music.* I get the impression that the only message her music has is "I'm hot, I'm sexy and I can play violin! Look at me!"*


 
 +2, this exactly is my take.
 And a video in an awesome landscape that calls for silence and meditation or just listening the wind whistling layered with studio recorded sound and the performer faking it ... just not my cup of tea.


----------



## hekeli

palmfish said:


> I have never seen that version before. It looks good. What is the purpose of the front input since there is also a rear input but no selector? Are they simply tied together? And the rear output allows it to be used as a preamp?


 
  
 I guess the front and rear inputs are simply tied. And yes it works as preamp, pot works for the rear output. Very nice!


----------



## 62ohm

james-uk said:


> I've not heard of her, do you recommend the album ?


 
  
 Nah not really, these all really described my take on the album.
  


twoears said:


> Well... she's got some kind of talent that's for sure.
> 
> IMHO she's trying a bit too hard and I find it a bit hard to relax and just enjoy her music. I get the impression that the only message her music has is "I'm hot, I'm sexy and I can play violin! Look at me!"
> 
> ...




  


koiloco said:


> +1.  Her violin skill is alright; nothing compared to the violin greats.  I do like how she's bringing a classical instrument into a modern genre while looking good/hot doing it.  Very enjoyable.


 
  


icebear said:


> +2, this exactly is my take.
> And a video in an awesome landscape that calls for silence and meditation or just listening the wind whistling layered with studio recorded sound and the performer faking it ... just not my cup of tea.


 
  
 She's not a bad violinist, that's for sure. It's just somewhat hard to just relax and enjoy her music. The album is sort of full of extravagance and no emotion.


----------



## TwoEars

You asked for it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  







  
 Preliminary findings are very positive. It really doesn't sound like a tube amp at all, there's not a trace of being "thick" or "slow" or "syrupy".
  
 Instead the Sonett is quick, agile, light on it's feet and really, really transparent. Music is *FUN* and engaging to listen to, there's very good presence and imaging.
  
 It sounds more like the perfect +3000 dollar end-game Solid State amp than a mid-level tube amp to be honest, I don't think I could ever guess I was listening to a tube amp in a blind test.
  
 It also seems to do well with whatever I throw at it. Beethoven - check. Sasha & John Digweed - check. Norah Jones - check. Collective soul - check. Very impressive!
  
 If you like a transparent and uncolored sound this combo I've got here with Anedio D1 sabre dac, Sonett & HD800 is highly impressive IMHO.
  
 And it's gorgeous of course, that blue color really pops when you see it in person.


----------



## LugBug1

Well it certainly looks the business TwoEars - great photos aswell. Congrats bud!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I had Craig's for a few days. It gels very well with the hd800 . Very detailed it sounded better than my WOO WA5 . But the HE6 sounded better with the woo than the stratus .

Enjoy the pairing I think it is a very good pairing. 

Al


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> I had Craig's for a few days. It gels very well with the hd800 . Very detailed it sounded better than my WOO WA5 . But the HE6 sounded better with the woo than the stratus .
> 
> Enjoy the pairing I think it is a very good pairing.
> 
> Al


 
 So you prefer DNA Stratus/HD800 to WA5/HD800? I think you said before that the DNA Stratus was not better than the WA22. 
  
 That picture above is of the DNA sonnet though - so now im confused.


----------



## JeffA

> Preliminary findings are very positive. It really doesn't sound like a tube amp at all, there's not a trace of being "thick" or "slow" or "syrupy".
> 
> Instead the Sonett is quick, agile, light on it's feet and really, really transparent. Music is *FUN* and engaging to listen to, there's very good presence and imaging.
> 
> ...


 
 I just wanted to echo this. I recently took delivery of a Sonett 2. It is not a great "tube" amplifier. It is a great amplifier, period. Very well-engineered tube amps sound like the best solid state, and the best-engineered solid state amps sound like the best tube amps. At the top rungs of the ladder, they sound much more similar than dissimilar. The Sonett 2 is a fast, transparent, dynamic amplifier. Its strengths are a great match for the strengths of the HD800. It should get more notoriety around here as an option in the $1,500 space. And if the Stratus is a definite step up from the Sonett 2 … Oh my.


----------



## elvergun

twoears said:


> You asked for it!


 
  
 What a great setup...and incredible pictures.


----------



## Dionysus

It is a beautiful looking amp and from what people echo a very good sounding headphone amp, I'm intrigued.


----------



## TwoEars

lugbug1 said:


> Well it certainly looks the business TwoEars - great photos aswell. Congrats bud!


 
  
 Thanks!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


alrainbow said:


> Enjoy the pairing I think it is a very good pairing.
> 
> Al


 
  
 I certainly think so! Thanks!
  


jeffa said:


> I just wanted to echo this. I recently took delivery of a Sonett 2. It is not a great "tube" amplifier. It is a great amplifier, period. Very well-engineered tube amps sound like the best solid state, and the best-engineered solid state amps sound like the best tube amps. At the top rungs of the ladder, they sound much more similar than dissimilar. The Sonett 2 is a fast, transparent, dynamic amplifier. Its strengths are a great match for the strengths of the HD800. It should get more notoriety around here as an option in the $1,500 space. And if the Stratus is a definite step up from the Sonett 2 … Oh my.


 
  
 Congrats to you too! And I completely agree! It's not a great "tube amp", it's a great amp period! Good analysis!
   
 Quote:


elvergun said:


> What a great setup...and incredible pictures.


 
  
 Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


dionysus said:


> It is a beautiful looking amp and from what people echo a very good sounding headphone amp, I'm intrigued.


 
  
 Just go for it. I bought mine second hand but Donald is a great guy. Knows more than most but very low key. If anyone deserves your business he does!


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Very awesome pairing with Mass Kobo 394, very clean and full sounding with massive headroom. Too bad it's for japan market only.


----------



## roguegeek

Ugh. Got home later than I wanted to from a little trip this last weekend, so I definitely haven't gotten in the listening I've wanted to. Here now, though, and it seems heaven resumes. Nice to see so many posts since Friday night.


----------



## Dionysus

RogueGeek, Received my Field diffuse frequency email from Sennheiser yesterday, serial number 282xxx. I believe you have /xxx. Let compare. By the way how do you like your Bifrost/ Asgard with the HD800?


----------



## rsbrsvp

I am thinking about buying a HD800.   Of course- I am scared out of my mind about the brightness issue.
  
 What I'm wondering though- is using computer audio- wouldn't a small amount a equalizing or even crossfeed take care of the issue?
  
 I find crossfeed really softens and rounds out those highs?
  
 Is the brightness of the headphone workable without ruining it's good points?
  
 If so- what recommendations would you give me?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

EQ is fine to use and as most do not use 
It much it is a good way to enjoy the headphones 
Now next they are a very detailed headphone 
And the brightness people speak of is just harshness 
In poor recordings. Buy them and enjoy them 
And a little increase in the leer level helps and a little take away 
At about 6 k helps too. 

Al


----------



## LugBug1

rsbrsvp said:


> I am thinking about buying a HD800.   Of course- I am scared out of my mind about the brightness issue.
> 
> What I'm wondering though- is using computer audio- wouldn't a small amount a equalizing or even crossfeed take care of the issue?
> 
> ...


 
 I bet you don't need to EQ them  But yeah a little EQ can do wonders if need be. as Alrainbow says, a little notch down at 6-7khz will smooth it out. I don't like crossfeed however, it affects the overall balance and smears the image IME.


----------



## punit

+1. What the above 2 said.


----------



## TwoEars

rsbrsvp said:


> I am thinking about buying a HD800.   Of course- I am scared out of my mind about the brightness issue.
> 
> What I'm wondering though- is using computer audio- wouldn't a small amount a equalizing or even crossfeed take care of the issue?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Don't be.
  
 Yes and maybe.
  
 Does it? I like crossfeed quite a lot personally but I've never done it to tame the highs. Maybe I need to listen for that.
  
 Yes.
  
 Buy them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The HD800 is a very transparent transducer. More so than almost any other headphone I know. You can use them as they are and they are great. Some purists don't believe in EQ and that's fine. I personally believe in EQ and feel it can compensate for recording flaws, personal taste or component mismatchs. With EQ the HD800 can be made to be a headshaking basshead dream, a delicate midrange vocalists headphones or a detail monster. Your call really, they are very versatile.


----------



## koiloco

rsbrsvp said:


> I am thinking about buying a HD800.   Of course- *I am scared out of my mind about the brightness issue.*
> 
> What I'm wondering though- is using computer audio- wouldn't a small amount a equalizing or even crossfeed take care of the issue?
> 
> ...


 
 What brightness issue? This has never been a problem for me.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Worst case scenario, there's always EQ like others have said.


----------



## britneedadvice

rsbrsvp said:


> I am thinking about buying a HD800.   Of course- I am scared out of my mind about the brightness issue.
> 
> What I'm wondering though- is using computer audio- wouldn't a small amount a equalizing or even crossfeed take care of the issue?
> 
> ...


 
 Hi
 Surely Senn HD800s must be one of the most easiest headphone to audition?I'm sure if you give your location your'll get an offer from a member who has a pair! I'm listening to mine at I write,no brightness here.


----------



## TwoEars

It's usually best not to audition the HD800's... they're not a really a "wow" pair of headphones, and it's easy to get equipment mismatches in a shop. I recommend just buying them.


----------



## RebelRising

twoears said:


> It's usually best not to audition the HD800's... they're not a really a "wow" pair of headphones, and it's easy to get equipment mismatches in a shop. I recommend just buying them.


 
 Speaking of which, got a fairly new pair on sale right over here in case anyone's interested: HD800
  
 PM me if y'all have any questions, comments, or offers


----------



## Sorrodje

Cannot resist to post pics of my HD800/HE-4 Head-fi Station


----------



## roguegeek

dionysus said:


> RogueGeek, Received my Field diffuse frequency email from Sennheiser yesterday. Let compare. By the way how do you like your Bifrost/ Asgard with the HD800?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: certificate


 
 Got mine over the weekend as well. Looks fairly similar.
  

  
 What do you guys think?
  
 As far as Bifrost Uber and Asgard2 go, I like the Bifrost Uber with it. Works well. I don't like the Asgard 2 at all. Far too bright of an amp to run with an HD 800. The Lyr, on the other hand, seems to be doing well. I know I'll probably be looking at a fairly decent amp upgrades soon, though, to ensure I am squeezing everything I can get out of the HD 800.


----------



## pdrm360

roguegeek said:


> Got mine over the weekend as well. Looks fairly similar.
> 
> What do you guys think?
> 
> As far as Bifrost Uber and Asgard2 go, I like the Bifrost Uber with it. Works well. I don't like the Asgard 2 at all. Far too bright of an amp to run with an HD 800. The Lyr, on the other hand, seems to be doing well. I know I'll probably be looking at a fairly decent amp upgrades soon, though, to ensure I am squeezing everything I can get out of the HD 800.


 
  
 Your frequency response looks good. I use the Lyr to drive my HD800 and I'm satisfy of they synergy.


----------



## roguegeek

Alright, I think I'm ready to give some initial impressions, but let me start by supplying a very brief background so that there's context to my statements.
  
 I started this whole journey looking for headphones specifically for competitive gaming. Ended up with the AD700, a can I absolutely still adore, which turned out to be my gateway drug into this whole hobby. Since then, I played in the portable market and moved up into the mid-fi market which is where I've spent a lot of my time developing my preferences. At this point, I appreciate and own colorful cans, specifically bright, airy, and aggressive, but I've always preferred cans that are as neutral as possible. I'm a soundstage and detail whore, as well. So in reading what the HD 800 is all about, you can see why I've had it on my list for quite some time as a possible end-game can for me. As far as my buying habits go, it's about having the right tool for the right job. I love my PX 100-II, Porta Pro, MDR-1R, and XBA-3 for traveling. My K702 65th AE is amazing for competitive gaming. My SRH940 is a nice closed option for office use and when I can go open, I prefer my SR325is. I adore my HD 600 and HD 700 for open home. The HD 800 represents my first real move into the top-of-the-line or flagship market. Additionally, I've developed a collector's mentality. Do I need an HD 650? No, but I might as well grab once since I have the HD 600, HD 700, and now HD 800.
  
 One other quick thought. I usually shy away from popular ideas or products unless I can have my own experiences with them to make up my own opinions. If you were to say to me a year ago that a decent amount of cans I’d own would be Sennheiser, I would have probably laughed in your face. Cut to today, I’ve been consistently and pleasantly surprised by most of their offerings and have developed a certain level of "faith" with them. I would not, in any way, shape, or form, call myself a Sennheiser fanboy. I’m just a fan of good product that works well for my needs.
  
 So onto the HD 800. The first 72 hours of my can’s home life were spent going through endless loops of high quality pink noise and logarithmic sine. My impressions rely on about only 10 hours of listening after this break-in process. I’m going to be less technical and more emotional in explaining what I’m hearing.
  
 I’ll start with the positives. What I’ve gathered in this short time is that this can’s sonics were made for my tastes. They are highly neutral and extremely resolving. This is the kind of detail I have always wanted to hear in my content. I feel like I’m looking to through a large, clear, wide open window into my music, experiencing it the way an artist intended it to be. That give me a great sense of joy, so I am not able to relate to the people who say there is no fun to be had in these cans or they’re not musical. Yes, they are highly analytical, but that’s one of the reasons I am so happy when they are on my head. I also can’t relate to people who call them cold. They are not cold. The bass is tight, accurate, and very well extended. It’s not warm. it’s just… perfect. On the opposite end, I simply can’t agree with anyone who calls these cans bright. They are very detailed and, again, very extended, but there’s no amount of harshness with it and I haven’t experienced any level of fatigue. Beyond the signature of the frequency, the soundstage is extremely wide and positional accuracy is the best I have ever heard.
  
 Some of the factors that are just kinda neutral or so-so for me would be things like the fit. I suppose I must have a small head because I really haven’t read many issues with it. For me, they just don’t seem entirely secure on my noggin. I can lean my head forward or back and the cans will begin to shift on my head. It’s not as bad as I’m making it sound, but it’s something that could be better. Honestly, the HD 800’s younger brother, the HD 700, has just been the most perfect open full-size can when it comes to comfort and fit. Nothing has been able to come close to touching it.
  
 I’ll finish this off with some critical things about the HD 800. You shouldn’t expect to pay $1500 for a headphone and get practically the same packaging and materials you get from the HD 600. A cardboard box, some foam, and a piece of silk? It’s in no way impressive. On top of this, the supplied “book” in several languages is somewhat laughable. The stock and finish are not that great of quality and the content inside is just not very interesting or informative. No, for $1500, I expect a whole lot more impressive packaging and extras than this.
  
 Overall, I’m very happy. As time goes on, I think I’ll be exploring what the value of these cans mean to me, what else I can hear from them, and the further amping options I can play with. At this initial point, the HD 800 has exceeded almost every very high expectation I had of it and will be remaining within my collection for the foreseeable future.


----------



## TwoEars

roguegeek said:


> Alright, I think I'm ready to give some initial impressions, but let me start by supplying a very brief background so that there's context to my statements.
> 
> I started this whole journey looking for headphones specifically for competitive gaming. Ended up with the AD700, a can I absolutely still adore, which turned out to be my gateway drug into this whole hobby. Since then, I played in the portable market and moved up into the mid-fi market which is where I've spent a lot of my time developing my preferences. At this point, I appreciate and own colorful cans, specifically bright, airy, and aggressive, but I've always preferred cans that are as neutral as possible. I'm a soundstage and detail whore, as well. So in reading what the HD 800 is all about, you can see why I've had it on my list for quite some time as a possible end-game can for me. As far as my buying habits go, it's about having the right tool for the right job. I love my PX 100-II, Porta Pro, MDR-1R, and XBA-3 for traveling. My K702 65th AE is amazing for competitive gaming. My SRH940 is a nice closed option for office use and when I can go open, I prefer my SR325is. I adore my HD 600 and HD 700 for open home. The HD 800 represents my first real move into the top-of-the-line or flagship market. Additionally, I've developed a collector's mentality. Do I need an HD 650? No, but I might as well grab once since I have the HD 600, HD 700, and now HD 800.
> 
> ...


 

 You should polish that up and put it in the review section when you've had them a while longer, great write-up! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I can also say I've had the exact same relationship with Sennheiser. Never really been a sennheiser fan boy, I just bought things which I thought seemed good. Then one day I kind of realized *how come all my headphones and in-ears are sennheiser, what happend here* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You certainly sound like the kind of person who'd like the HD800's! They are all about detail and "tactility". The are not bass shy it's just that the bass is extremely tight and very high quality. I've done extensive back-to-back listening between the HD800 and LCD-3. If you're a bass head the LCD-3 is definitely the can for you... but in terms of how deep the bass goes and how much information is there the HD800 actually has it beat. At least to my ears. The LCD-3 hits you harder but with the HD800 you can hear more texture and different layers even in the sub-bass.


----------



## roguegeek

twoears said:


> You should polish that up and put it in the review section when you've had them a while longer, great write-up!


 
 hehe Thanks for the feedback. I would want a real review to have more technical aspects to it, so maybe I'll add to it later and throw it into the product review section when my experience with the HD 800 has grown.
  


twoears said:


> I can also say I've had the exact same relationship with Sennheiser. Never really been a sennheiser fan boy, I just bought things which I thought seemed good. Then one day I kind of realized *how come all my headphones and in-ears are sennheiser, what happend here*


 
 That made me laugh hard because I had the exact same conversation with myself at the start of the year.
  


twoears said:


> You certainly sound like the kind of person who'd like the HD800's! They are all about detail and "tactility". The are not bass shy it's just that the bass is extremely tight and very high quality. I've done extensive back-to-back listening between the HD800 and LCD-3. If you're a bass head the LCD-3 is definitely the can for you... but in terms of how deep the bass goes and how much information is there the HD800 actually has it beat. At least to my ears. The LCD-3 hits you harder but with the HD800 you can hear more texture and different layers even in the sub-bass.


 
 I like well extended and high quality bass. I'm just not a fan of a lot of exaggeration or color. I've had pretty poor experiences with orthodynamic cans. Yeah, the bass has been good, but I have not heard one yet where the mids or treble felt "right" to me. I'm highly sensitive to treble in that I put a priority on it as something that a can must perform well with.


----------



## 62ohm

Heck, I listen to all of my music, even old recordings (Bowie, Doors, Zeppelin) with HD800 lol
  
 Of course, there are some that I can't listen due to bad recordings I assume (or did I got a bad copy of the CD? is that possible?) like Oasis' "Time Flies".


----------



## Dionysus

roguegeek said:


> Alright, I think I'm ready to give some initial impressions, but let me start by supplying a very brief background so that there's context to my statements.
> 
> I started this whole journey looking for headphones specifically for competitive gaming. Ended up with the AD700, a can I absolutely still adore, which turned out to be my gateway drug into this whole hobby. Since then, I played in the portable market and moved up into the mid-fi market which is where I've spent a lot of my time developing my preferences. At this point, I appreciate and own colorful cans, specifically bright, airy, and aggressive, but I've always preferred cans that are as neutral as possible. I'm a soundstage and detail whore, as well. So in reading what the HD 800 is all about, you can see why I've had it on my list for quite some time as a possible end-game can for me. As far as my buying habits go, it's about having the right tool for the right job. I love my PX 100-II, Porta Pro, MDR-1R, and XBA-3 for traveling. My K702 65th AE is amazing for competitive gaming. My SRH940 is a nice closed option for office use and when I can go open, I prefer my SR325is. I adore my HD 600 and HD 700 for open home. The HD 800 represents my first real move into the top-of-the-line or flagship market. Additionally, I've developed a collector's mentality. Do I need an HD 650? No, but I might as well grab once since I have the HD 600, HD 700, and now HD 800.
> 
> ...







I love everything you said here, if I was to give my impressions of the HD800 after a couple of weeks of listening, it would echo almost to the letter how you have eloquently put it, even the point about the HD700 they are the world most comfortable full size cans. Great write up Rogue. I'm very happy with the upgrade the HD800 are some serious audiophile cans. I do not see anything in the future for me, now I will concentrate on the amp.


----------



## Sonido

Wait till you guys sell your HD700 (and other headphones as well) to fund better amps and DACs. 

I myself don't care for collecting, and if it's dust they're collecting, I'm selling them. No head time means no use to me. A nicer amp or dac is worth far more than a random two-minute comparison with some unused headphone once a month.


----------



## roguegeek

sonido said:


> Wait till you guys sell your HD700 (and other headphones as well) to fund better amps and DACs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 hehe Well I'll agree with you on this. If they collect dust, they aren't good enough to hold onto. I just don't think that will be the case with the HD 700, even with the HD 800 in hand now. I know for sure the HD 600 will _never_ leave, though. Only time will tell, I suppose.


----------



## magiccabbage

roguegeek said:


> hehe Well I'll agree with you on this. If they collect dust, they aren't good enough to hold onto. I just don't think that will be the case with the HD 700, even with the HD 800 in hand now. I know for sure the HD 600 will _never_ leave, though. Only time will tell, I suppose.


 
 i thought that about the HD650 but when i got the T1 and HD800 things changed. I couldn't go back to the 650's


----------



## Dionysus

Lol HD700 was already sold, the limited time I have for head time won't facilitate more than one set of cans. I am already looking for the next amp/dac.. For me it's one nice system to come home to on weekends and sit and have a few hours to critically listen to my favorite music is all I'm after.


----------



## palmfish

magiccabbage said:


> i thought that about the HD650 but when i got the T1 and HD800 things changed. I couldn't go back to the 650's


 
  
 I can totally understand that.


----------



## icebear

roguegeek said:


> Alright, I think I'm ready to give some initial impressions, but let me start by supplying a very brief background so that there's context to my statements.
> ... I’ll finish this off with some critical things about the HD 800. You shouldn’t expect to pay $1500 for a headphone and get practically the same packaging and materials you get from the HD 600. A cardboard box, some foam, and a piece of silk? It’s in no way impressive. On top of this, the supplied “book” in several languages is somewhat laughable. The stock and finish are not that great of quality and the content inside is just not very interesting or informative. No, for $1500, I expect a whole lot more impressive packaging and extras than this.
> ....


 
  
 Thanks for sharing your impressions, great write up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 Pretty much is in line with my thoughts, too.
  
 As far as your critique about the packaging and the book - I agree about the descriptions but I do not really care. Or ... I'd rather prefer it like it is.
 Unless I'll be moving, I don't need the box and I will most likely also never look at this book again. So I prefer the functional but not over the top packaging to some fancy wooden box and leather bound instruction manual for $250 more. So I roughly paid 95% for the headphones and 5% for the box (not getting into margins...). Otherwise it's about 80/20.


----------



## koiloco

@roguegeek, would you like more of the $ you pay for the HD800 to go into packaging vs. the build and sound quality of the HP?  I know which one I would prefer.  My $60k car comes with the same plastic gas cap as a Toyota corolla but I am more than fine with it.


----------



## Frank I

so true. The headphone is a classic already.


----------



## akhyar

^ agree
The box, manual, receipt went straight to the store room on the 1st day


----------



## Sonido

dionysus said:


> Lol HD700 was already sold, the limited time I have for head time won't facilitate more than one set of cans. I am already looking for the next amp/dac.. For me it's one nice system to come home to on weekends and sit and have a few hours to critically listen to my favorite music is all I'm after.


 

 Dang was totally gonna make some prop bets on whether you or roguegeek sold HD700 first. O well, we can still take bets on how long it will take him to sell his.


----------



## TwoEars

So... Funny Story....
  
 I've been listening to the toslink output on my Create HD Titanium for ages. That way I've been getting both eax effects for gaming and wasapi push in foobar.
  
 Today I couldn't really seem to relax and get into the music, I was also wondering why so many of my recordings seemed so poorly mastered all of a sudden. Were my ears becoming hyper-sensitive? Was this some kind of trick my brain was playing on me?
  
 So I dug up my HD650 and plugged that in instead.... hmm.... yupp that sounds a lot more relaxing and non-fatiguing.
  
 I know I prefered the HD800 for these songs before! Hmmmm....What's going on here.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 About 30 min of head scratching later I ditch the optical toslink interface and plug in a usb cable into my computer instead.
  
 That did it, the bass became firmer, deeper and tighter. The overall sound presentation mellowed down a bit. And a lot of glare went away. HD650 once again dethroned....
  
 Bad toslink cable causing lots of jitter? Sound card optical out slowly dying on me?
  
 Interesting non the less! And glad I found the problem!


----------



## roguegeek

koiloco said:


> @roguegeek, would you like more of the $ you pay for the HD800 to go into packaging vs. the build and sound quality of the HP?  I know which one I would prefer.  My $60k car comes with the same plastic gas cap as a Toyota corolla but I am more than fine with it.


 
 That comparison is horrible. There's nothing special or unique, comparatively in the market, about your $60k car. Move up to +$250k and then you start seeing things like assembly factory visits, custom luggage, driving lessons, etc... Things you will never get with your Lexus (I'm assuming). These cans and their asking price, there is something special about them and the packaging has a lot to be desired. The bottom line is at this price point and compared to cans in the same market, objectively, you get more material. When you compare A vs B vs C in this one aspect, the Sennheisers come up short. Now, I think that also says something about these cans when I dig for criticism and can only find packaging materials to ding. If it has to come up short someplace, I'd prefer it to be on a superficial level.


----------



## roguegeek

sonido said:


> Dang was totally gonna make some prop bets on whether you or roguegeek sold HD700 first. O well, we can still take bets on how long it will take him to sell his.


 
 haha Maybe I'll keep them just out of spite for you!


----------



## Sonido

roguegeek said:


> That comparison is horrible. There's nothing special or unique, comparatively in the market, about your $60k car. Move up to +$250k and then you start seeing things like assembly factory visits, custom luggage, driving lessons, etc... Things you will never get with your Lexus (I'm assuming). These cans and their asking price, there is something special about them and the packaging has a lot to be desired. The bottom line is at this price point and compared to cans in the same market, objectively, you get more material. When you compare A vs B vs C in this one aspect, the Sennheisers come up short. Now, I think that also says something about these cans when I dig for criticism and can only find packaging materials to ding. If it has to come up short someplace, I'd prefer it to be on a superficial level.


 

 The Bugatti belt buckle costs more than his car lol. http://www.autoweek.com/article/20140106/CARNEWS01/140109957


----------



## koiloco

roguegeek said:


> That comparison is horrible. There's nothing special or unique, comparatively in the market, about your $60k car. Move up to +$250k and then you start seeing things like assembly factory visits, custom luggage, driving lessons, etc... Things you will never get with your Lexus (I'm assuming). These cans and their asking price, there is something special about them and the packaging has a lot to be desired. The bottom line is at this price point and compared to cans in the same market, objectively, you get more material. When you compare A vs B vs C in this one aspect, the Sennheisers come up short. Now, I think that also says something about these cans when I dig for criticism and can only find packaging materials to ding. If it has to come up short someplace, *I'd prefer it to be on a superficial level.*


 
 There, we got an agreement and no, it's not a Lexus.  I see that you just need something to pick on when it comes to your HD800.  
 I don't like the stock cable either.  It's too long and low quality for a $1500 pair of HP.


----------



## TwoEars

koiloco said:


> There, we got an agreement and no, it's not a Lexus.  I see that you just need something to pick on when it comes to your HD800.
> I don't like the stock cable either.  It's too long and low quality for a $1500 pair of HP.


 
  
 Is that why it says "Not a cable believer! I might be deaf and can't hear the difference." in your profile?


----------



## koiloco

twoears said:


> Is that why it says "Not a cable believer! I might be deaf and can't hear the difference." in your profile?


 
  you are very observant, sir.


----------



## bearFNF

I did not like the ergos of the stock cable either, too stiff.  Much more flexible and lite with the 'Q'...ergos and function (adapters)


----------



## TwoEars

I for one like the stock cable.
  
 I've had about $1000 or so of aftermarket cables in my home at the same time and I decided to keep the stock one and sell on the aftermarket ones...
  
 You can get a little bit more warmth into the system by using a pure copper cable, but it's at the cost of detail retrival and speed. All in all I found the stock cable to be a very nice compromise.
  
 As for improved soundstage by using rectangular cores and what not... well, not everything they write in the newspaper is true either lol.


----------



## Maxvla

Stock cable: Too long, lumpy, looks like panty hose, and the plug is a mile long.


----------



## akhyar

^ the plugs on both ends are longer. On the headphone end, it's the shrink wrapped that makes it longer.


----------



## TwoEars

maxvla said:


> Stock cable: Too long, lumpy, looks like panty hose, and the plug is a mile long.


 
  
 BUT I LIKE.....
  
 oh darn it. Nevermind.


----------



## MickeyVee

You guys are too funny... 

Who cares about the packaging? I just keep it in case I want to sell which I don't.  The only company who does it right is Audeze with their rugged travel case. Gotta go to HeadFi meets in style.
The stock cable is the best that I've seen on any headphone I've purchased. PIA when it comes to kinking but what the heck, I much prefer my Q and ADL cables.
Who reads instructions?
Mine didn't come with a factory tour of Sennheiser either, oh well.
 HD800 are awesome headphones.
 Sit back and enjoy! 
 Just my POV


----------



## Sonido

The K812 comes with a wooden omega stand. Wished they shaved $200 off instead.


----------



## elvergun

mickeyvee said:


> Who cares about the packaging? I just keep it in case I want to sell which I don't.  The only company who does it right is Audeze with their rugged travel case. Gotta go to HeadFi meets in style.


 
  
 And Beyerdynamic...with the metal case they come in, your T1s can survive a nuclear holocaust (you wont survive, but your headphones will be around to the delight of future anthropologists).


----------



## Maxvla

I'm not sure it would delight them after they listened.


----------



## TwoEars

mickeyvee said:


> You guys are too funny...
> 
> Who cares about the packaging? I just keep it in case I want to sell which I don't.  The only company who does it right is Audeze with their rugged travel case. Gotta go to HeadFi meets in style.
> The stock cable is the best that I've seen on any headphone I've purchased. PIA when it comes to kinking but what the heck, I much prefer my Q and ADL cables.
> ...


 
  


sonido said:


> The K812 comes with a wooden omega stand. Wished they shaved $200 off instead.


 
  
 This how I feel too. Just give me the headphone already, McDonald carrying bag? Oh well... I don't care. I've got some fancy boxes but they're all in my cupboard and never get looked at.


----------



## elvergun

maxvla said:


> I'm not sure it would delight them after they listened.


 
  
 Well, you can always put your HD800 in the Beyer case right before the global conflict escalates. 
  
 The anthropologists will think kindly of you.


----------



## roguegeek

sonido said:


> The K812 comes with a wooden omega stand. Wished they shaved $200 off instead.


 
 Maybe they knew they needed something to entice interest? I really can't wait for your impressions on that one.


----------



## elvergun

roguegeek said:


> Maybe they knew they needed something to entice interest? I really can't wait for your impressions on that one.


 
  
 A lower price would have enticed me.


----------



## roguegeek

elvergun said:


> A lower price would have enticed me.


 
 Seriously. As much as I love the AKG house sound, I don't see how they could possibly be worth that price when the K712 is so good for so much cheaper. Considering the harsh criticism it's gotten from trusted reviewers, it hard to trust anyone's impressions in that thread right now.
  
 Sonido, you got to hurry up and get a pair for review and comparison.


----------



## Sonido

roguegeek said:


> Seriously. As much as I love the AKG house sound, I don't see how they could possibly be worth that price when the K712 is so good for so much cheaper. Considering the harsh criticism it's gotten from trusted reviewers, it hard to trust anyone's impressions in that thread right now.
> 
> Sonido, you got to hurry up and get a pair for review and comparison.


 

 Yeah it's supposed to ship out tomorrow or Thursday. The Questyle should ship out tomorrow as well. I should have both by mid next week. I'm hoping it pairs well enough with the Questyle because I really don't have a good amp for low impedance headphones like the K812 otherwise. It'll be tough for the K812 to compete with the HD800 driven through an amp that was designed explicitly for the HD800 in the Questyle. I'm hoping for the best though and that it's 90-95% the HD800 in technicalities, and has some things that it bests the HD800 at or proves unique sounding enough for me to keep.


----------



## pdrm360

magiccabbage said:


> i thought that about the HD650 but when i got the T1 and HD800 things changed. I couldn't go back to the 650's


 
  
 But I still use my HD650.


----------



## pdrm360

sonido said:


> dionysus said:
> 
> 
> > Lol HD700 was already sold, the limited time I have for head time won't facilitate more than one set of cans. I am already looking for the next amp/dac.. For me it's one nice system to come home to on weekends and sit and have a few hours to critically listen to my favorite music is all I'm after.
> ...


----------



## pdrm360

sonido said:


> The K812 comes with a wooden omega stand. Wished they shaved $200 off instead.


 
  
 $1300, hmm, it's still expensive.


----------



## icebear

For anyone in need of a sturdy packaging for their headphones )  :
  
 http://www.staples.com/product_IM1DQ3633?externalize=certona
 Various sizes are available of course. It does not mention anything about the nuclear desaster though..
   

Black
Dimensions: interior 4.25"(H) x 9.50"(W) x 7.50"(D), exterior 4.70"(H) x 11.80"(W) x 9.80"(D)
Material: resin
Injection-molded case made of HPX high performance resin is virtually unbreakable, dent-resistant and shatter-resistant
Tough, rugged and lightweight
Airtight and watertight
Multilayer cubed foam bottom and a convoluted foam pad in the lid
Weight: 4 lbs.


----------



## LugBug1

maxvla said:


> Too long, lumpy, looks like panty hose, and the plug is a mile long.


 
 You seen me naked...?


----------



## LugBug1

I think the box that they come in is quite handy. I like to put them away when I'm at work etc. Keeps them out of the reach of small destructive hands! 
  
 But in general I actually think Grado got it right with the pizza boxes. Nice and slim for storage. Of course you couldn't fit an HD800 in a grado box... Just saying.


----------



## TwoEars

I think all headphones should come in something like this:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Carring-Headphone-Bag-Box-For-Sennheiser-HD570-HD800-HD448-Headphone-/251240901576
  
 Just put a small aluminium label on the front of it: "Sennheiser HD800"
  
 Minimalistic, cheap, useful, doesn't take up space and wears better than a cardboard box.


----------



## roguegeek

pdrm360 said:


>


 
 haha It's not happening!!!


----------



## TwoEars

roguegeek said:


> haha It's not happening!!!


 
  
 So... 5 weeks?


----------



## roguegeek

twoears said:


> So... 5 weeks?


 
 Alright, I'm putting you all on the schedule for a little murdering. Does lunch time work?


----------



## TwoEars

roguegeek said:


> Alright, I'm putting you all on the schedule for a little murdering. Does lunch time work?


 

 Sounds perfect.
  
 I have a pawn shop about two blocks over. Just in case.... you know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Seriously though... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've kept my HD650 although I've thought about selling them a couple of times. It happens...


----------



## roguegeek

Alright, I will say this. If I were to sell any of the Senn cans, the HD 700 may be in line as the first to go simply because there isn't much that it does that isn't bested by the HD 800. For the price difference, that better be the case. I also know the HD 600 is safe for as long as I live because it not only has a different signature than the HD 800, it's also just one of the greatest cans ever made and is practically the yard stick to which everything else is measured around here. A baseline, if you will, that everyone knows and can compare against.


----------



## Maxvla

That's the main reason I still have my HD600 despite it being thoroughly outclassed by the 800.


----------



## namaiki

With the following specs, is it possible to calculate if my Apex Glacier should have enough power to be able to drive my HD 800s decently enough?


> Using a current feedback amplifier, the Glacier puts out 2.6V RMS (7.4V P-P) and up to 100mA of output current, so can easily drive nearly any headphones. 


> Maximum output: >2.6V RMS into 150Ω; >1.7V RMS into 32Ω


 
Source: http://www.ttvjaudio.com/Apex_High_Fi_Audio_Glacier_portable_headphone_amp_p/aaa0000010.htm
  
  
 Other than this, I also have my CEntrance DACport, but by ear I think the Glacier does a better job.


> Maximum output level: 8.5V peak–peak (3.0V RMS) into 300 ohms. ​


 
Source: http://www.stereophile.com/content/centrance-dacport-usb-headphone-amplifier-specifications


----------



## icebear

I am driving the HD800 directly with an e20 DAC [mkIII , w. 0.082ps clock] and it has max. 250mA peak, 1 Ohm output imp. 1Vrms into 60 Ohm
 specs here:
 http://www.exasound.com/Overview/CompareSpecifications.aspx
  
 -15db acc. to DAC display is the loudest I can stand for a longer time.
  
 The HD800 is not so much about the max. power of the amp it requires but about the quality of the source signal.


----------



## Fugue

Mine arrived today and they sound great plugged straight into my Oppo 105--certainly better than my Byerdynamic DT 770s and nearly as transparent yet warmer than my previous Stax 404 system. They might sound better yet with a dedicated amp, but they will do for a while as is. By the way, the instruction manual states that I can view an individual diffuse-field frequency response by entering my S/N on the site, but I see no place to do that. Can someone direct me? Thanks.


----------



## roguegeek

fugue said:


> Mine arrived today and they sound great plugged straight into my Oppo 105--certainly better than my Byerdynamic DT 770s and nearly as transparent yet warmer than my previous Stax 404 system. They might sound better yet with a dedicated amp, but they will do for a while as is. By the way, the instruction manual states that I can view an individual diffuse-field frequency response by entering my S/N on the site, but I see no place to do that. *Can someone direct me?* Thanks.


 
  
 Gevorg can...
  


gevorg said:


> http://en-de.sennheiser.com/service-support-services-register-your-product
> 
> Enter HD800, fill out the form, and make sure to check the box on the bottom that says "Frequency response certificate". The FR chart should arrive in your email in a couple of days or so.


  

 Took me about a day to get it from them. Enjoy!


----------



## roguegeek

These last week of work, I've been leaving early every night just to get in listening with this thing. It just makes me so happy.


----------



## roguegeek

A couple of quick impressions using the amps that are at my disposal right now. The Magni, no. Just no. Far to bright. Asgard 2, kinda the same story. The louder you listen, the more distortion you hear. The Lyr with Orange Globe, no bad. Maybe a tad too warm and you seem to lose some resolution. The Lyr with stock tubes is my favorite so far. A little less punchy than the OGs, but the resolution stays which is what really turns me on.
  
 I know the HD 800 has been known to be extremely amp picky, but I really didn't understand the magnitude until I heard it myself. It's so incredibly apparent with these cans over any others I have heard. I think I've just accelerated my plan to get these things optimally amped through single ended termination.


----------



## Fugue

roguegeek said:


> Gevorg can...
> 
> Took me about a day to get it from them. Enjoy!


 

 Thanks. I don't like giving them permission to use my personal info as they please, though.


----------



## TwoEars

roguegeek said:


> A couple of quick impressions using the amps that are at my disposal right now. The Magni, no. Just no. Far to bright. Asgard 2, kinda the same story. The louder you listen, the more distortion you hear. The Lyr with Orange Globe, no bad. Maybe a tad too warm and you seem to lose some resolution. The Lyr with stock tubes is my favorite so far. A little less punchy than the OGs, but the resolution stays which is what really turns me on.
> 
> I know the HD 800 has been known to be extremely amp picky, but I really didn't understand the magnitude until I heard it myself. It's so incredibly apparent with these cans over any others I have heard. I think I've just accelerated my plan to get these things optimally amped through single ended termination.


 

 I've heard very good things about the vali from people I trust.
  
 The HD800 is also infamous for having a sharp treble peak at 6k dB when placed on the head. Tyll demonstrated this on his dummy head and has do with the standing waves between the head and headphone. In fact lots of headphones have this problem but it seems extra severe on the HD800.
  

  
  
 I like to inverse that 6k peak in a good EQ program and then lift up the lower end.
  
 (what I actually really do is that I take away an equal amount of everything that is over the "0 dB line" so that I'm taking away bits, not adding them. Usually gives better sound quality).
  
 The HD800 is the best and most comfortable transducer and with the best sound stage. But the freq response when placed on the head leaves a lot to be desired.
  
 Which is why I'm a EQ believer and think the HD800 is the best headphone I've ever heard when EQ'd properly.
  
 Get rid of that 6k peak and let me know what you think.


----------



## Sorrodje

Someone here compared  the Eddie Current Super7 and the DNA Sonett 2 ? 
  
 I'm officially in the market for an amp upgrade and I'm looking for a transparent & neutral tube amp ( something like a Solid State sound without the edginess and with this very specific tube presentation ) . Nothing overly warm or tubey  . 

 Last Saturday evening , we did a mini-meet with two friends of mine. The one offered the house & diner and the second brought his Jdslabs Abyss, Eddie Current Balancing Act, TotalDAC D1 Dual and a Fostex TH900.... .  I personaly was generous enough to bring my ears and my HD800 with my little AudioGD NFB12.1. 
  
 So we did serious listenings. 
  
 The first point is the Abyss is very impressive. the greatest bass (Fast , deep, precise , clean ) I've ever heard from "headphones" and better soundstage & imaging capabilities than our beloved HD800.  Don't get me wrong ,the Abyss don't blow the HD800 Out the water but it's definitely a step above the Senn.  impressive! . i found that Abyss & HD800 was on par for impact and dynamics but IMO HD800 stays the king for resolution , probably due to its slightly analytical signature while the Abyss is little bit ( very very slightly) on the dark side of neutrality. 
  
 But that's not my main point here.
  
 We firstly compared HD800 + NFB12.1 combo against abyss + BA + Totaldac combo. and the difference was huge! I saw desperately my HD800 seriously dominated in every area. Then, i plugged the Senn to the Balancing Act+ Totaldac combo and was immediately blown away. I didn't really believe in Hi-end gear so when I say i was blown away, you can take it seriously.  This moment really changed my mind. Suddenly , all main flaws af my HD800 disappeared.  I usually use a combo with which I'm very happy: REGA DAC + MG Head and I really like to listen to music with my rig ( unfortunately  I didn't take it saturday evening so I couldn't compare directly) but HD800 kept some harshness sometimes. Although the added warmth counterbalance the slight harshness, this harshness stays.  With the BA+Totaldac , i immediately noticed that all harshness has disappeared withou any artificial warmth added. HD800 Sounded crystal clear & sweet with a far higher level of transparency. I was stunned from the first seconds of listening. my HD800 sounded so "right". I've never heard this before. 
 After this discover, I've thrown the NFB12.1 in my bag and we've done more listening. HD800 was then far more close to the Abyss. My above comparison is based from listens done on Balancing Act/Totaldac  combo both for HD800 & Abyss. 
  
 Then, you know why I'm now in the market for a new amp.  . I really can't have enough money for a Balancing Act.  So, less expensive options are welcome !
  
 My favorite so far is the DNA Sonett 2  against Super7 because of the price and the form factor but I can wait a bit more to save money if the S7 is clearly better. Thoughts about it ? other options ?


----------



## Sonido

^Why tube? I'm sure high end SS wouldn't have that edginess, at least that's what the owners say insofar as to justify their purchases.


----------



## TwoEars

sorrodje said:


> Someone here compared  the Eddie Current Super7 and the DNA Sonett 2 ?
> 
> I'm officially in the market for an amp upgrade and I'm looking for a transparent & neutral tube amp ( something like a Solid State sound without the edginess and with this very specific tube presentation ) . Nothing overly warm or tubey  .
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great write-up!
  
 One small thing though.... you do realize that the total dac is pretty much expensive enough to pay for the balancing act. the abyss and your HD800 all in one go right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 What I'm saying is that there might have been a difference in the dac and not only the amp.
  
 As for amps... I haven't heard the super seven. But I'm seriously impressed by my balanced Sonett 1 with upgraded tubes.
  
 I never thought a tube amp could have so much snap and clarity and such pitch black background.
  
 Would be interesting to listen to a balancing act some day since everyone always goes on about that one.


----------



## Sorrodje

sonido said:


> ^Why tube? I'm sure high end SS wouldn't have that edginess, at least that's what the owners say insofar as to justify their purchases.


 
  
  
 I really like to see glowing tubes on my desk and until now i've always preferred tube amps with HD800 but my mind stays open for the future. I'll probably consider a Hi end Solid State alternative besides my tube amp in the future but righ now I want tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


twoears said:


> Great write-up!
> 
> One small thing though.... you do realize that the total dac is pretty much expensive enough to pay for the balancing act. the abyss and your HD800 all in one go right?
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I know that  . totaldac has a more affordable dac . the A1 . More affordable but still way too expensive for  my wallett . 
  
 Now we're all on a ladder. to climb this ladder we have to use both right leg ( amp) and left leg ( dac) .Now it's time for me to use the righ leg upgrade because I feel my amp is the weakest point of my rig. That been said, I'm convinced that the DAC is the key point of a dedicated to HD800 Rig and I'm very happy with my REGA. 
  
 I watch with great interest your adventures with Your Sonett 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . I've emailed Donald North Yesterday and I'm currently waiting his answer.


----------



## TwoEars

sorrodje said:


> Now we're all on a ladder. to climb this ladder we have to use both right leg ( amp) and left leg ( dac) .Now it's time for me to use the righ leg upgrade because I feel my amp is the weakest point of my rig. That been said, I'm convinced that the DAC is the key point of a dedicated to HD800 Rig and I'm very happy with my REGA.


 
  
 Well, I do think you're making a good decision in getting rid of the Audio-GD. Some people will probably kill me for this but I had the Phonix for a while, and after some consideration and with the help of hindsight, I've now decided that I was a horrible amp. It was very warm (both in temp and sound signature) and just not very transparent. Everything coming out of it sounded the same somehow, a little bit warm and smeared. After I moved away from the Phoenix it was as if a veil had been lifted from all my records and they could breath again.
  
 An amp is supposed to be transparent and not impose its own sound signature...
  
 I've read a similar reflection from another head-fier, he had begun to wonder "if audio-GD simply wasn't very good at building amps" I think the wording was.
  


sorrodje said:


> I watch with great interest your adventures with Your Sonett
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice, maybe we'll get another HD800 Sonett combo going here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If you do your research your can find some very, very nice things being said about both the Sonett & Sonett 2.


----------



## Sorrodje

Mhhh it depends of what we're looking for.  NFB12.1 + HD800  is really an enjoyable combo. And we all know here that some dac or amp are nearly unlistenable with HD800. 
  
 I bought the NFB12.1 for 120€ because I was curious about it. it scales to a better level when associated with the Schitt Vali for example. NFB12.1 + Vali does a lovely entry level combo for HD800 IME 
  
 With HD800 ,I think we've two options :
  
 - Colored/warm combo that counterbalance the  nature of the HD800. It's easy and not expensive and we can obtain an extremely enjoyable and musical result without losing too much resolution & transparency. EQ is maybe the easier and the less expensibe manner to obtain good results.
 - Neutral/transparent combo that amplify and magnify inherent nature of the HD800. This option costs much more money because pieces of gear that can exploit HD800 transparency and resolution without the expense of harshness are rare & expensive but the result is really worth the investment because then, the HD800 does'nt sound only enjoyable. it sounds "right" 
  
  
 That's what I understood Last Saturday evening. 
  
 My 0,02


----------



## TwoEars

> Originally Posted by *Sorrodje* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> it sounds "right"


 
  
 To my ears my HD800 setup sounds "right" so maybe I'm there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Absolutely zero siblance or fatigue, it's as relaxing to listen to as an LCD-2/3/X.
  
 My setup is all about soundstage, clarity and resolution with some EQ'ing to help.
  
 Everyone should try the inverse EQ approach for a day...  it's that damned 6k freq spike that does it!
  

 You need to find a good EQ program a kill that 6k spike with fire, that's where all the talk about siblance and harshness comes from. Then lift up the midrange between 2-4k. 
  
 Believe it our not but the HD800 can be made to sound resolving, engaging, fun and even borderline forgiving!


----------



## Sorrodje

With my favorite music , I've really never needed any EQ . We compared Abyss and HD800 last saturday and the "6khz peaks" was definitely not so obvious to my ears.  I hear peaks in HE-4 or Beyerdynamic T1 and DT880 signatures but what I hear from the HD800 is a slightly elevated Hi mids/low treble range between 1 and 7 khz . No peak at all. no need to EQ then.
  
 What I hear is more consistent with this graph form innerfidelity:
  

  
 I much prefer analyze non compensated graphs because I doubt the average compensation is the good one for my ears. 
  
  
 But I think my brain is now completely accustomed. Somethink like a stockholm syndrom maybe ?


----------



## TwoEars

If you download this package: http://www.roomeqwizard.com/
  
 It has an inbuilt sine-wave generator that can be made to go from 20-20.000 Hz in 45 seconds or so.
  
 You can tell me when it starts hurting the most and we can discuss the non-existent 6k Hz peak after that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 But if you don't have a problem you don't have a problem I guess.... it's just that I have this theory that people go out hunting for the perfect soft sounding tube amp to cure a problem that really is solved by EQ'ing and nothing else.


----------



## Sorrodje

When I'll understand how to install the package on my Ubuntu I'll give it a try.


----------



## 62ohm

Hey guys, is it just me or does most of Genesis recordings treble sounds peaky? With HD800 of course.


----------



## magiccabbage

62ohm said:


> Hey guys, is it just me or does most of Genesis recordings treble sounds peaky? With HD800 of course.


 
 "selling England by the pound" sounds fine to me. On WA2 though


----------



## LugBug1

roguegeek said:


> I know the HD 800 has been known to be extremely amp picky, but I really didn't understand the magnitude until I heard it myself. It's so incredibly apparent with these cans over any others I have heard. I think I've just accelerated my plan to get these things optimally amped through single ended termination.


 
 Its the transparency of the HD800 rather than them being amp picky. Feed them a good amp and they will sound good - and price doesn't have to come into the equation. It's just a case of remembering that they are 300 ohms and they will appreciate high impedance output over low. A low impedance/high current amp will give them an overly fed treble and not much beef below.   
  


twoears said:


> I've heard very good things about the vali from people I trust.
> 
> The HD800 is also infamous for having a sharp treble peak at 6k dB when placed on the head. Tyll demonstrated this on his dummy head and has do with the standing waves between the head and headphone. In fact lots of headphones have this problem but it seems extra severe on the HD800.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, some seem to be more affected by the treble than others. I know the peaks are there but they just don't annoy me at all when they are amped well. I EQ other cans but have never needed to with the HD800. Infact I kind of use it as a bench mark for EQing other headphones! 
  
 I've said this sooo many times; that a little EQ can go a long way. Especially if you only dislike one aspect of a headphone. One peak maybe all it is! You can spend a fortune on amp or tube rolling softening the sound for example. But you can end up dulling a lot more than the one freq that is causing you annoyance and therefore cause a lot more damage than good.


----------



## nigeljames

lugbug1 said:


> Its the transparency of the HD800 rather than them being amp picky. Feed them a good amp and they will sound good - and price doesn't have to come into the equation. It's just a case of remembering that they are 300 ohms and they will appreciate high impedance output over low. *A low impedance/high current amp will give them an overly fed treble and not much beef below.   *


 
  
 Not always...


----------



## icebear

sorrodje said:


> Mhhh it depends of what we're looking for.  NFB12.1 + HD800  is really an enjoyable combo. And we all know here that some dac or amp are nearly unlistenable with HD800.
> 
> I bought the NFB12.1 for 120€ because I was curious about it. it scales to a better level when associated with the Schitt Vali for example. NFB12.1 + Vali does a lovely entry level combo for HD800 IME
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for sharing your impression on the listening session (post #8888). Very interesting !
 I think, this makes it very obvious that any aggressive highs or sibilance is not inherently a problem of the HD800 but rather the associated equipment.
 So from my point of view EQ is correcting the faults of amp or DAC but not anything that is wrong with the HD800 because it isn't.
  
 You pointed out two ways to get to enjoy the HD800 and for the first the end result is more important, if it leads to enjoying the music, no matter whose fault get's corrected. But a lot of bashing on the HD800 is like barking up the wrong tree ).
  
 I hope I'm on the second road ... patiently waiting for a GSX-MkII.


----------



## Sorrodje

What seems obvious to my ears is that a HD800 powered by EC Balancing Act+ Totaldac hasn't anymore harshness even compared to the Abyss that can't definitely be considered as harsh. That been said the HD800 sounds obviously a bit brighter and a bit less bassy too.
  
  
 But I beat dead horses there


----------



## LugBug1

nigeljames said:


> Not always...


 
 Ok I'm generalising 
  
 But my point is, is that the HD800's aren't bass light or overly bright. They are very transparent. And 300 ohm. Remembering these two factors and you will find happiness  (As long as you can find a good amp... But that's another story)


----------



## nigeljames

lugbug1 said:


> Ok I'm generalising
> 
> *But my point is, is that the HD800's aren't bass light or overly bright. They are very transparent*. And 300 ohm. Remembering these two factors and you will find happiness  (As long as you can find a good amp... But that's another story)


 
  
 That I can fully agree with.


----------



## TwoEars

sorrodje said:


> What seems obvious to my ears is that a HD800 powered by EC Balancing Act+ Totaldac hasn't anymore harshness even compared to the Abyss that can't definitely be considered as harsh. That been said the HD800 sounds obviously a bit brighter and a bit less bassy too.
> 
> 
> But I beat dead horses there


 
  
 That emoticon is too disturbing even for me.
  
 A guy wearing headphones.... attached to a dead horses body..... under what appears to be a suffocating plastic bag.... being spanked..... and smiling......
  
 Is this PG-13 allowed??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
 I would have loved to hear that headphone combo though. I think my rig is pretty good but if anything is going to best it it's going to be something of that magnitude. Your ears are priviliged


----------



## Maxvla

Sennheiser veil was a dead horse beaten topic here many years ago, hence the graphic.


----------



## roguegeek

lugbug1 said:


> Ok I'm generalising
> 
> *But my point is, is that the HD800's aren't bass light or overly bright. They are very transparent.* And 300 ohm. Remembering these two factors and you will find happiness  (As long as you can find a good amp... But that's another story)


 
  
 <rant>
  
 Absolutely agree with you there. It seems like certain cans have certain power words attached to them and then they're continuously described as such, mostly by people who have little to no experience with them. "The HD 800 is bright and cold." No, it is not. "The HD 650 is veiled." Nope, not to my ears. "The HD 700's treble is harsh and flawed." Ehh, maybe under certain conditions, but again, not to me.
  
 Nothing gets me going more around here when you have people speaking out of inexperience and spitting out rhetoric based on the popular opinion. Go make your own or don't add to the misinformation.
  
 </rant>
  
 Sorry, kinda a crabby morning.


----------



## philo50

^^^^^^what he said


----------



## elvergun

roguegeek said:


> <rant>
> 
> Absolutely agree with you there. It seems like certain cans have certain power words attached to them and then they're continuously described as such, mostly by people who have little to no experience with them. "The HD 800 is bright and cold." No, it is not. "The HD 650 is veiled." Nope, not to my ears. "The HD 700's treble is harsh and flawed." Ehh, maybe under certain conditions, but again, not to me.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I tend to agree with most of what you said...but the HD650s I owned were really, really veiled.   Perhaps the varying opinions are the result of different drivers (the ones I had did not have the silver version).


----------



## elvergun

I've been tempted to get another pair with the newer drivers just to find out if the veil is there. 
  
 I know for sure that the pair I used to own had the famous veil.


----------



## David1961

magiccabbage said:


> 62ohm said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys, is it just me or does most of Genesis recordings treble sounds peaky? With HD800 of course.
> ...




I think that's an excellent album, I have it on SACD. Another one I've got by early Genesis is " Foxtrot ", also on SACD, and also ( IMO ) an excellent album.


----------



## LugBug1

roguegeek said:


> <rant>
> 
> Absolutely agree with you there. It seems like certain cans have certain power words attached to them and then they're continuously described as such, mostly by people who have little to no experience with them. "The HD 800 is bright and cold." No, it is not. "The HD 650 is veiled." Nope, not to my ears. "The HD 700's treble is harsh and flawed." Ehh, maybe under certain conditions, but again, not to me.
> 
> ...


 
 I know what you mean. Also, its so easy to get influenced off others words when reading reviews and such. Especially if the reviewer is well respected.. If he or she says a headphone is 'such and such' you will inevitably be listening out for 'such and such' when you finally hear them. I never realised that the HD650 was veiled until I joined head-fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and I'd had 5 good years with them before then... Fancy never knowing that they were veiled all along ha! I just thought they were easy on the ears with a nice warm tone.
  
 I have to say however and ime, most headphones that I've heard do have some degree of colouring that will always be there no matter what amp or source is used. They will always imprint their character on the sound. My point about the HD800 is that it is quite an exception. Sure there will be colour there under the microscope so to speak - as this is unavoidable, but they are the most transparent (none existing) speaker/transducer component that I've ever heard.


----------



## TwoEars

elvergun said:


> I tend to agree with most of what you said...but the HD650s I owned were really, really veiled.   Perhaps the varying opinions are the result of different drivers (the ones I had did not have the silver version).


 
  
 The version I own is the silver version and they are very picky about their amping. In fact... they are more picky about the amping than the HD800 if you ask me. But when you get it right there is no veil and there are still some songs and genres that they do better than my HD800's.
  
 Also. Whenever someone references Genesis i have to post this video 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Sorry. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's some kind of unspoken internet law.


----------



## roguegeek

elvergun said:


> I tend to agree with most of what you said...but the HD650s I owned were really, really veiled.   Perhaps the varying opinions are the result of different drivers (the ones I had did not have the silver version).


 
 Yup. Just to be clear, I'm wasn't ranting against people opinions. Everyone's ears are different. I'm just say I like the impressions to be backed by experience.


----------



## roguegeek

twoears said:


> Sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You are entirely correct.


----------



## preproman

lugbug1 said:


> Its the transparency of the HD800 rather than them being amp picky. Feed them a good amp and they will sound good - and price doesn't have to come into the equation. It's just a case of remembering that they are 300 ohms and they will appreciate high impedance output over low. *A low impedance/high current amp will give them an overly fed treble and not much beef below.   *


 
  


nigeljames said:


> Not always...


 
  


lugbug1 said:


> Ok I'm generalising
> 
> But my point is, is that the HD800's aren't bass light or overly bright. They are very transparent. And 300 ohm. Remembering these two factors and you will find happiness  (As long as you can find a good amp... But that's another story)


 
  


nigeljames said:


> That I can fully agree with.


 
  
  
 Good points.  My F1J seems to bring out the bass in these headphones pretty well.


----------



## binot

Hi.. Whilst awaiting the arrival of my new cable, I'd like to get some inputs on how difficult it is to remove the original HD800 cables. Are the plugs very tight? Is it a simple straight pull? I'm a bit nervous .. 

Any tricks or tips?


Thanks


----------



## Surfski

I am curious about the EQ process with the HD800. Questions:
  
 1. What is the process and software required for a Mac?
 2. Do you need to get the frequency response from Sennheiser or is there some way to view it live as you make adjustments?
  
 Current chain: Macbook Pro (Audirvana) > USB > Chord Hugo > HD800 with stock cable


----------



## ALRAINBOW

They pull straight down. And they are keyed so whe putting them back they must be turned till they go inn .
Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Use the same program you use to play your music. It should have an EQ I it. . And raise the the bass about 3 db from 200 down. And at 6 k lower it about 3 db . That is a good start. 

and use them for a while .

Al


----------



## MickeyVee

In Audirvana + (not sure if it works in Audrvana free)
 - got to preferences
 - got to Audio Units
 in the first drop down, select: AppleAUGraphicEQ- ensure Use AudioUnits Effects and Realtime is cheated here so you can cage on the fly without stopping A+
 - Click configure & change to your delight - note that you can save presets
  
 I spent a month playing around with this, large changes, subtle changes (<2.5db) and alway found I preferred it with no EQ so turned it off.  YMMV
  
 Hope this helps,
 M
  
  
 Quote:


surfski said:


> Current chain: Macbook Pro (Audirvana) > USB > Chord Hugo > HD800 with stock cable


----------



## Maxvla

binot said:


> Hi.. Whilst awaiting the arrival of my new cable, I'd like to get some inputs on how difficult it is to remove the original HD800 cables. Are the plugs very tight? Is it a simple straight pull? I'm a bit nervous ..
> 
> Any tricks or tips?
> 
> ...



They can be pretty darn tight the first few times you unplug them, but they loosen up slightly as you cycle them. Careful to not pull the plug towards the metal screen or you will scratch it.


----------



## bearFNF

binot said:


> Hi.. Whilst awaiting the arrival of my new cable, I'd like to get some inputs on how difficult it is to remove the original HD800 cables. Are the plugs very tight? Is it a simple straight pull? I'm a bit nervous ..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yep, the first time can be kinda tight. I used a wiggling twisting motion to get them out.  Like was said just be careful not to ding the paint or the screens.  A smooth controlled pull should do it.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

preproman said:


> Good points.  My F1J seems to bring out the bass in these headphones pretty well.


 
 I think a lot of that has to do with the high(80 ohms) output impedance of the F1J though, but a lot of people like the 800s on high output impedance amps, like OTL tube amps, so its not necessarily a bad thing.
  
 Man i can't wait for my Super 7 and HD800s to show up!


----------



## Eee Pee

cough120ohmIEC


----------



## skeptic

Higher impedance amps will up the midbass, particularly given the spike in the hd800s impedance curve ~100hrz. That said, deep bass is noticeably tighter and improved, to my ears, via the low impedance setting on my mainline.


----------



## roguegeek

Alright, I might as well start asking. Amps in the $500-1000 range. I can probably go higher if area of diminishing returns is higher, but let's start there and see what's recommended. What's out there that will keep the resolution and transparency? I'm really not interested in adding color anywhere.


----------



## Sonido

roguegeek said:


> Alright, I might as well start asking. Amps in the $500-1000 range. I can probably go higher if area of diminishing returns is higher, but let's start there and see what's recommended. What's out there that will keep the resolution and transparency? I'm really not interested in adding color anywhere.


 

 I noticed you ordered a Crack in the other thread. Interesting choice if what you want is not adding color. Unless of course, you're looking for a complementary amp, the reason I ordered the Questyle. It's supposed to do what you describe and there's a lot of praise (or hype) going around on it for giving a very transparent sound. I might be able to pick it up tomorrow, or Monday at latest. So far the notable amps I've heard the HD800 out of are the Crack and Vali. I can say the Vali is more transparent, and I can see why it gets a lot praise as a great amp for the HD800. It'll be interesting to see if I get completely blown away by the Questyle.
 P.S. The K812 should be coming in tomorrow as well. This could be a fun weekend.


----------



## Maxvla

roguegeek said:


> Alright, I might as well start asking. Amps in the $500-1000 range. I can probably go higher if area of diminishing returns is higher, but let's start there and see what's recommended. What's out there that will keep the resolution and transparency? I'm really not interested in adding color anywhere.



Nothing I've heard in that range is really worth wasting time with. Go cheap and save for high end. Vali/M-Stage til then.


----------



## Sonido

maxvla said:


> Nothing I've heard in that range is really worth wasting time with. Go cheap and save for high end. Vali/M-Stage til then.


 

 Well we'll see how the Questyle CMA800R stacks up, won't we? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 project86 in the other thread highly endorses it, along with a couple others. Today it was mentioned in the same sentence as the ECP Audio L-2, perhaps the amp Tyll likes best for the HD800 (http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-planar-magnetic-headphones-page-2). Of course it could all be hype, but I'm excited! Anyways, technically it's not in the $500-$1000 range, though I got it in that range. Although, I don't think the place I got it from will be having it for sale again, at least not at the price I got it at. The manufacturer got nasty emails from other vendors when it gave the special price to the one vendor. This is disappointing because if it really is this good, I might get another one in the future to go balanced.


----------



## skeptic

roguegeek said:


> Alright, I might as well start asking. Amps in the $500-1000 range. I can probably go higher if area of diminishing returns is higher, but let's start there and see what's recommended. What's out there that will keep the resolution and transparency? I'm really not interested in adding color anywhere.


 
  
 My suggestion would be to upgrade that crack order to a mainline RG.  I sampled a ton of amps with hd800's at CanJam, and the mainline really is among the best headphone tube amps out there.  Bottlehead does have sales periodically, and if you're able to sit tight for a short while, I think it is highly probable that they will offer it for $1k again at some point.  It is definitely a more sophisticated and time consuming build than a crack + speedball, but if you follow the directions carefully, no single solder joint is any harder than on a crack build.  In fact, installing the led's on the crack a-socket were probably more of a struggle for me than any one step on the mainline build (excluding identifying the one bad joint out of a couple hundred that initially threw a couple of my voltage checks off heh).  Bear in mind that a relatively decent soldering station and good automatic wire strippers are a must for this kit.  Also, in a pinch, and wife, child and work permitting, I live close to Pasadena and could probably lend a hand with trouble shooting if you ended up needing it.  
  
 Also, just to follow up on Sonido's ECP L-2 reference, the L-2 is basically a "spud" derivative, which was an early design by the guys at bottlehead.  The mainline and L-2 share a lot of similarities: both are single gain stage, highly regulated, constant current fed, 6c45p parafeed tube amps with hq output transformers.  As Doc B has summarized:
  


> Mainline was derived from our own $7500 6C45pi based 'big preamp/headphone amp' from 2003, designed quite a few years before the l-2 came about. And of course the spud concept goes back to the original WE417A based spud amp, built at a VALVE meeting in my basement around about 1994-5. Mainline is not a spud, as we use a hybrid shunt regulator that adds one more tube to the amp. I wasn't aware of the l-2. It is rather flattering to see others use a topology we have pioneered.


 
  
 The mainline also incorporates bottlehead's excellent "submissive" fine/course attenuator circuit and se and balanced outputs, whereas the L-2 has se or balanced in but only se out.


----------



## roguegeek

sonido said:


> I noticed you ordered a Crack in the other thread. Interesting choice if what you want is not adding color. Unless of course, you're looking for a complementary amp, the reason I ordered the Questyle. It's supposed to do what you describe and there's a lot of praise (or hype) going around on it for giving a very transparent sound. I might be able to pick it up tomorrow, or Monday at latest. So far the notable amps I've heard the HD800 out of are the Crack and Vali. I can say the Vali is more transparent, and I can see why it gets a lot praise as a great amp for the HD800. It'll be interesting to see if I get completely blown away by the Questyle.
> P.S. The K812 should be coming in tomorrow as well. This could be a fun weekend.



The crack wasn't really for the HD 800. I'm sure I'll try the pairing, but the reason for that purchase was to just have fun building something. I heard it sounds great with the HD 600.

So if the budget raises to $1.5k, what are the options now?


----------



## RAZRr1275

So I'm looking into an HD800 setup sometime down the year and will need a stop gap amp until I can afford a Zana Deux. What are people's thoughts about the Crack vs the Vali vs the M-Stage for the HD800s? I should also add that I don't want something super bright and fatiguing.
  
 Another question is would something like a Decware CSP-2 or Violectric V200 be endgame with the HD800s? A lot of people talk about the Zana as being the best for it but I'm wondering if the same quality can be had for closer to $1000


----------



## roguegeek

razrr1275 said:


> So I'm looking into an HD800 setup sometime down the year and will need a stop gap amp until I can afford a Zana Deux. What are people's thoughts about the Crack vs the Vali vs the M-Stage for the HD800s?



It's an interesting question and I'll be looking forward to the responses on this as well. There's quite a bit of difference on the price and functions of those amps, so it will be interesting to see how people weight it.


----------



## MickeyVee

I think a lot of us are in the same boat.. looking for something to make due until we can afford to go to one of the TOTL amps.  Right now I'm doing OK with the Naim DAC and Vali but find that I'm giving the RS1i more head time as they're more engaging with not so well recorded music, especially with the Vali.  For those special tracks, it's definitely the HD800 and Naim.. simply outstanding!  The Vali does well but we all know there's more.
 On my list of end game amps are the Sennheiser HDVA 600, Woo WA2 and DNA Sonnet 2. 
 There's a Toronto HeadFi meet at the end of the month so hopefully I'll get a chance to audition the HDVD800 and the Bryston amongst others.


----------



## BournePerfect

I agreew with Maxvla on the mid-range amping for the HD800 specifically-don't bother. The Vali and m-Stage are both very impressive with the HD800, and nothing I've owned in the $300-1000 bracket (balanced or not), is better. In fact, most aren't even as good ime. I would say the next appreciable jump up is the $1100-1600 range, with the likes of Bryston, Luxman P1u (used), Sonnett 2, and probably a Decware CSP3+. From there, it's the big boy territory that will get close to nirvana with the Senns: ZDSE, Stratus, L-2, EC 2a3 etc...
  
 Imo, and ime-don't bother with the stopgaps in between-there seems to be little or no improvements for the $$-especially in the 3-1000 range. Get a Vali AND an m-Stage (for different sound sigs) for the HD800-then start saving those pennies for the big boys.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## elvergun

mickeyvee said:


> I think a lot of us are in the same boat.. looking for something to make due until we can afford to go to one of the TOTL amps.  Right now I'm doing OK with the Naim DAC and Vali but find that I'm giving the RS1i more head time as they're more engaging with not so well recorded music, especially with the Vali.  For those special tracks, it's definitely the HD800 and Naim.. simply outstanding!  The Vali does well but we all know there's more.
> On my list of end game amps are the Sennheiser HDVA 600, Woo WA2 and DNA Sonnet 2.
> There's a Toronto HeadFi meet at the end of the month so hopefully I'll get a chance to audition the HDVD800 and the Bryston amongst others.


 
  
  
 I'm saving up for a TOTL tube amp.  I need something quite small that does not look like it came out of a Borg spaceship (or the girlfriend will not be ammused).  Perhaps the WA7...but I'm not sure that it qualifies as (or sounds like) a TOTL amp.
  
 In the meantime, I'm enjoying my Lyr.


----------



## MickeyVee

I went from the Bifrost Uber/Lyr to the WA7.  Enjoyed both but the WA7 is more of a side grade with the HD800. Keep saving! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Quote:


elvergun said:


> Perhaps the WA7...but I'm not sure that it qualifies as (or sounds like) a TOTL amp. In the meantime, I'm enjoying my Lyr.


----------



## RAZRr1275

bourneperfect said:


> I agreew with Maxvla on the mid-range amping for the HD800 specifically-don't bother. The Vali and m-Stage are both very impressive with the HD800, and nothing I've owned in the $300-1000 bracket (balanced or not), is better. In fact, most aren't even as good ime. I would say the next appreciable jump up is the $1100-1600 range, with the likes of Bryston, Luxman P1u (used), Sonnett 2, and probably a Decware CSP3+. From there, it's the big boy territory that will get close to nirvana with the Senns: ZDSE, Stratus, L-2, EC 2a3 etc...
> 
> Imo, and ime-don't bother with the stopgaps in between-there seems to be little or no improvements for the $$-especially in the 3-1000 range. Get a Vali AND an m-Stage (for different sound sigs) for the HD800-then start saving those pennies for the big boys.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 Thanks for the advice! Definitely makes the HD800 a more affordable option in the short term. I'm basically just looking for a nice complement for my HE-6 for the time being before I get a better speaker amp for them and a TOTL amp for the HD800. 
  
 What sort of differences are there between the Vali and M-Stage sonically?


----------



## Aaron1006

What (relatively) budget DAC's would you guys suggest to pair with a Vali to hold over till TOTL?


----------



## BournePerfect

razrr1275 said:


> Thanks for the advice! Definitely makes the HD800 a more affordable option in the short term. I'm basically just looking for a nice complement for my HE-6 for the time being before I get a better speaker amp for them and a TOTL amp for the HD800.
> 
> What sort of differences are there between the Vali and M-Stage sonically?


 
  
 In a nutshell-the m-Stage has some warmth that will pretty much never reveal the Senns pesky highs, but still has excellent transient response, and solid bass. The Vali won't really curb those highs, and I wouldn't call it exactly neutral either. It will sweeten the highs a tad-but they can still be bothersome at times. It has good tonality, nice and punchy. I find I can listen to the m-Stage for much longer listening sessions-if that's a factor.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## LugBug1

aaron1006 said:


> What (relatively) budget DAC's would you guys suggest to pair with a Vali to hold over till TOTL?


 
 I'd recommend the Beresford Bushmaster. It is the best budget dac I've heard and the good in-built headphone amp will give you a nice alternative to the Vali.


----------



## RAZRr1275

lugbug1 said:


> I'd recommend the Beresford Bushmaster. It is the best budget dac I've heard and the good in-built headphone amp will give you a nice alternative to the Vali.


 
 You think it would work on par with the M-Stage as far as amping the HD800 goes? I actually just purchased one yesterday.


----------



## LugBug1

razrr1275 said:


> You think it would work on par with the M-Stage as far as amping the HD800 goes? I actually just purchased one yesterday.


 
 I highly rate the M-stage as an HD800 amp, but I'd say that the bushmaster amp is competitive with any budget hp offering. Really refined sound but not an attacking sound. Great for classical I thought. The M-stage will add a little more meat on the bones.


----------



## Sorrodje

bourneperfect said:


> I agreew with Maxvla on the mid-range amping for the HD800 specifically-don't bother. The Vali and m-Stage are both very impressive with the HD800, and nothing I've owned in the $300-1000 bracket (balanced or not), is better. In fact, most aren't even as good ime. I would say the next appreciable jump up is the $1100-1600 range, with the likes of Bryston, Luxman P1u (used), Sonnett 2, and probably a Decware CSP3+. From there, it's the big boy territory that will get close to nirvana with the Senns: ZDSE, Stratus, L-2, EC 2a3 etc...
> 
> Imo, and ime-don't bother with the stopgaps in between-there seems to be little or no improvements for the $$-especially in the 3-1000 range. Get a Vali AND an m-Stage (for different sound sigs) for the HD800-then start saving those pennies for the big boys.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Where's the Eddie Current S7 in your ranking ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    I saw you have (had) a violectric V800 ? is the V800/HD800 combo enjoyable ?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

My vote is for the HDVD800 or 600. Of you intend to use your own dac feet the 600. The amp,is very good and it works with most all headphones and IEM,S as well. Now most amps that work great with the hd800 do not do well with other headphones or iems. So need FULL BAL also. So it is so simple to get the hdvd600. I intend to go to a headfi meet here in NYC. I plan to take a couple of things with me. One being the hdvd800 and the AP1/PP. just to see peoples faces when they here it. ..

Al


----------



## roguegeek

The Lyr and Bifrost Uber are working out pretty well right now, which is nice since it's what I had before I purchased the HD 800, but I know there's room here to scale upward. I'm looking to replace my Asgard 2 because I'm just not very happy with it, but I would have to do something with preamps. Sounds like I could pick the M-stage for my SS/preamp option and hold up for something nicer.
  
 That said, I know the Lyr isn't the best option out there, but it's not bad. Are things like the Vali and M-stage better with the HD 800 when it comes to _treble_ and _resolution_?


----------



## elvergun

roguegeek said:


> The Lyr and Bifrost Uber are working out pretty well right now, which is nice since it's what I had before I purchased the HD 800, but I know there's room here to scale upward.


 
  
 It used to be a popular combo not too long ago...and now the Lyr is not even recommended as an entry level amp.  It sounds pretty good to me.


----------



## roguegeek

That's how I read it too in the previous threads. I don't think I'm in bad condition at all. I'm just wondering where it may sit with the rise of the Vali and newer M-stage.


----------



## Maxvla

The old and new m-stage are virtually identical regarding the amp sections, so the m-stage isn't really on the rise. It has been a champion budget combo with HD800s for a long time.

Ive never heard a Vali so I can't comment on the differences.


As far as a budget DAC to use while saving, this is different from amping the HD800s in that every step up generally provides better quality. If you are truly going budget I would say knock out both DAC and amp for just $320 with the m-stage hpa-2 with USB DAC. It isn't perfect, but the optional DAC is surprisingly good. It is USB only, like many budget DACs. From there upgrade your DAC first, then amp later.


----------



## roguegeek

Sounds like I'll grab an M-stage at some point then. The stand alone amp version with preamps. No reason to upgrade my DAC because my Bifrost Uber is phenomenal. That or just spring for a BHA-1 right away or some other premium SS amp with preamps.


----------



## BournePerfect

sorrodje said:


> Where's the Eddie Current S7 in your ranking ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I haven't heard the S7, but it's supposed to give the Senns some kicking bass and better tonality. Then again-that all depends upon the tubes, as it's a tube roller's dream apparently. The V800 is a very nice dac in the price range-but it seemed a little to shouty and unnatural sounding to my ears that I got rid of it after a week. It had to much of a 'look at me' sound with it's technicalities imo-rather than an effortless musicality along with the technicalities that I much preferred from my DP1. Hope that helps-and sorry I forgot to respond to your PM regarding this...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## TwoEars

bourneperfect said:


> I haven't heard the S7, but it's supposed to give the Senns some kicking bass and better tonality. Then again-that all depends upon the tubes, as it's a tube roller's dream apparently. The V800 is a very nice dac in the price range-but it seemed a little to shouty and unnatural sounding to my ears that I got rid of it after a week. It had to much of a 'look at me' sound with it's technicalities imo-rather than an effortless musicality along with the technicalities that I much preferred from my DP1. Hope that helps-and sorry I forgot to respond to your PM regarding this...
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 The V800 is regarded as a pretty good dac if you like a neutral/clear sound. It's similar in character to Sabre chip dacs.
  
 Care has to be taken here as the system can turn out bright if paried with a bright amp and the HD800.
  
 If you like warmer, smoother more flattering presentation it probably isn't for you.
  
 All this being said the V800 has a couple of years behind it now and things are changing fast in the dac sector. A second hand V800 could be interesting but I wouldn't bother getting one new.


----------



## magiccabbage

has anyone heard the  Cary Audio CAD 300 SEI with HD800? There is one for sale here on headfi for ages, just wondering what you guys think? Its going for a great price. 1350 euro
  
 Supposed to sound excellent with speakers as well


----------



## James-uk

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733-3.html

Interesting read on dacs.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

What is the purpose of the link ? 

Al


----------



## Chodi

james-uk said:


> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733-3.html
> 
> Interesting read on dacs.


 
 Having participated in a blind test myself I cannot explain why differences are impossible to tell in the blind but so obvious when we can see the equipment. I have come round myself to wondering how much of these differences are based on expectation. I know this subject has been beat to death but it remains unsolved.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

When you say blind study under what circumstance was the test done. I do mini reviews and I can tell different amps or dacs . But it must be done with you own equipment and music . And only the one device is changed . Now if you still cannot pic the device out they must be very close in sound .

Al


----------



## jh7000

james-uk said:


> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733-3.html
> 
> Interesting read on dacs.


 

 Thanks for the article, interesting read. I will be curious to see how people start tearing it apart...
  
 I have by no means done any scientific testing, but when I attempted to do some careful blind test with my wife, testing:
 1. Asus Xonar One Muses
 2. Sennheiser HDVD 800
  
 I was not able to tell the difference between the two (Sennheiser HD800 was the headphone I tested with).


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Well I can say the asus is just as good as the hdvd800 dac. They both need help. Do you have any kind of USB converter ? 

Al


----------



## jh7000

alrainbow said:


> Well I can say the asus is just as good as the hdvd800 dac. They both need help. Do you have any kind of USB converter ?
> 
> Al


 

 I have since added a April Music Eximus DP-1 Dac/amp, and while I may be able to tell a slight difference, I have not done any blind testing. I am also adding a highly-rated Questyle amp to my setup to see if I can find any improvements.
  
 I am guessing this topic will need to move over to another forum, but here was another interesting video that have experts that do testing/measurements for a living show how flawed human hearing is... 
  
 Makes me think I should stop spending so much money on upstream components and try to focus on just enjoying the music!!!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I cannot explain the circumstances of the study. But to my ears there is changes in dacs big time. I do not hear cables , or hardrives . But absolutely dacs. And I can say almost all dacs greatly improve with a good USB converter too. I guess I am just imagining it all. Lol.

Al


----------



## TwoEars

james-uk said:


> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733-3.html
> 
> Interesting read on dacs.


 
  
 Very good article, I enjoyed reading all of it. Just a shame that they seemed to go to such lengths to set everything up and then only two guys did the listening! They should have had 5 guys at least.
  
 I'm also somewhat skeptical of random switching between devices. I much prefer a tournament-style back to back shoot out. "A sounded better than B", then "C sounded better than D". And "when finally comparing C to D we preferred D" and so on.
  
 However - I did a little experiment with my gear just for fun:
  
*Setup 1: Flac --> Foobar2000 --> wasapi-push --> Creative Soundblaster Ti HD --> toslink --> Anedio D1 --> Bal. DNA Sonett --> HD800*
  
*Setup 2: Flac --> Foobar2000 --> wasapi-push --> Creative Soundblaster Ti HD --> RCA cables --> Bal. DNA Sonett --> HD800*
  
 All EQ's, options, plug-ins, and volume control were disabled.
  
 The Soundblaster uses the Texas Instruments PCM1794 chip. And the Anedio is sabre.
  
 First off - there is absolutely no question that when used like this the Bal DNA sonett really brings that humble soundblaster alive. The stock headphone output from the soundblaster headphone amp is definitely holding that PCM1794 chip back. With the RCA cables to the sonett in place the bass is significantly tighter, better controller and with more snap. Soundstage is better, details are better. Heck - everything is better. The difference is not small and not hard to notice. Bass is just very flabby and smeared at high volumes when using the stock creative headphone amp compared to the sonett.
  
 But when comparing Setup 1 to Setup 2 things aren't so simple. Setup 2 is good, very good in fact. It is more forgiving and more easy listening than Setup 1.
  
 Setup 1 however is pretty easy to tell from setup 2. The tell tale sign is to listen for texture and tightness/snap in the bass region, you should feel that there is zero veil and a "presentation drenched in sunlight". That's how you know you're listening to the Anedio. The high end of the spectrum can be a little bit more glaring and less easy listening than setup 1 if the source material isn't great.
  
 So for bad recordings I would say that setup 2 actually has the edge for easy listening.
  
 However when you have good source material setup 1 is pretty special... there is absolutely no veil. It's crystal clear, huge soundstage and presence. Fantastic texture and details.
  
 Setup 2 is very good. It's neutral but it feels "different". If the anedio gives the sense of being outside on a clear spring day the creative gives the sense of standing inside a mastering room behind a very well polished sheet of glass. Everything is there, it just isn't so ultra-sparkly clear. And in comparion there is the slightest bit of veil.
  
 Being very intimate with this gear and the Anedio D1 by now I would feel very confident to try it out in a blind test. But it would have to be back to back and not with other DAC's in the mix! That makes it really tricky I would think. As they say... human hearing memory is short lived.
  
 But none of this is really news to me... I've kept saying that if you want to do audiophile on a budget get the Essence STX + HD650. That combo plays the socks off almost everything else in that price range.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Wow how fast and simple that was. Lol. 
 I never will understand how they can assemble people in away to discredit those who can hear the obvious. 

Today I did a quick A/B of my own useing the hdvd800 with the hd800 headphones . Both we're used with redbook reference tracks is use for the purpose. 
a was the above from a surface pro jriver 19. 
The B was all the same but using the AP1 /PP. 

Wow what a difference , as I listened to it with out the ap1 , I was saying to myself what a lousy dac this is. 
But when I switched in the ap 1/PP. I then said wow what good dac. . I think it's mostly jitter that affected the changes in most dacs 2k down. And I find they all sound very good if adding the offramp or audiophileo . 

Just my 2 C ,s 

Al


----------



## palmfish

Where is all this jitter coming from? Doesn't the HDVD have asynchronous USB to prevent it? I mean all of these DACs and converters use their own internal clocks to eliminate timing errors.

The clocks used by TI, C-Media, XMOS, etc. either work or they don't. If they work, then none of the DAC's made by a mainstream manufacturer using asynchronous USB processors will produce audible jitter (and the amount of jitter required to become audible is highly debatable).

Think of the digital audio input chipset of your DAC like you would the fuel pump in your car. You can "upgrade" it all you want, but your car will not perform any differently.


----------



## Greed

palmfish said:


> Where is all this jitter coming from? Doesn't the HDVD have asynchronous USB to prevent it? I mean all of these DACs and converters use their own internal clocks to eliminate timing errors.
> 
> The clocks used by TI, C-Media, XMOS, etc. either work or they don't. If they work, then none of the DAC's made by a mainstream manufacturer using asynchronous USB processors will produce audible jitter (and the amount of jitter required to become audible is highly debatable).
> 
> Think of the digital audio input chipset of your DAC like you would the fuel pump in your car. You can "upgrade" it all you want, but your car will not perform any differently.


 
  
 That is grossly oversimplified.


----------



## koiloco

alrainbow said:


> I cannot explain the circumstances of the study. But to my ears there is changes in dacs big time. I do not hear cables , or hardrives . But absolutely dacs. And I can say almost all dacs greatly improve with a good USB converter too. *I guess I am just imagining it all. Lol.*
> 
> Al


 
 You might be shocked!  Ask a friend to help you conduct a blind test and verify your own doubt.


----------



## koiloco

greed said:


> That is grossly simplified.


 
 simplifed, yes.  grossly, no.  IMO of course.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I will give you an idea but you need to read about the topic. .

Now all the bits get to the dac so you do hear all the bits. But the timing is off , why many reasons and do not buy the aso sync that's all bull to. .

Now what is jitter and why you hear it. Imagine ten bits going towards you dac all next to each other , but the spaces between them is different . That jitter. So as the dac converts the data into sounds the bits are not continuos they are chopped up . But you will read of course they are that is what sample rate is chopped up bits. But the chopped up parts are not even in separation . That difference is what jitter is and it's why all cheap dacs sound the same . And it's why using a device to help lower it makes all dacs sound much better.

I hope this helps , but read will you and I am too old to feed you guys pure bull. I may be wrong as well are but never meant on purpose . 

Now go find a good jitter killer and leave me and my jitter alone . 

Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I will do that when I can. 

Al


----------



## third_eye

sorrodje said:


> Where's the Eddie Current S7 in your ranking ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think the S7 is a great choice in its price range.


----------



## palmfish

alrainbow said:


> Now all the bits get to the dac so you do hear all the bits. But the timing is off , why many reasons and _*do not buy the aso sync that's all bull*_ to. .
> 
> Al


 
  
 http://www.audiophilleo.com/definitions.aspx?Asynchronous%20USB
  
 "Apart from all the marketing hype, asynchronous USB transfer mode simply means that a "downstream" audio device, the Audiophilleo in this case, controls when the computer sends data through its USB interface and how much at a time. The Audiophilleo becomes the bus "master", and no longer has to rely upon noisy clocks generated by the computer or its USB interface logic. Products using synchronous or adaptive USB transfer are inherently "slaved" to the computer; clocking information has to be extracted from USB packet and frame timing signals, which are seldom accurate enough for high-end audio purposes."
  
 http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/USB.html
  
 "The data transfer from the PC to the DAC can be done in adaptive or in asynchronous mode...In asynchronous mode the DAC keeps its timing constant and controls the amount of data send by the PC. By design asynchronous mode eliminates input jitter."
  
  
 And yes, I know this is oversimplified too...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

So are in or out ? 
Now do you understand why it's converted to spidif ? Answer so all the bits are lined up now as spidif carries the clock and the data on one cable. And do not use a coax. Use the adaptors they give you. Why cause almost all coax cables do not match 75 ohms and more likely will cause there own jitter. . Unless you spend 225 on a cable from imperical audio .

The mKer of offramp. 
Al


----------



## TwoEars

Can I just state for the record that I'm not a jitter believer.
  
 Sure - if you're building the chips it makes sense to try and make that internal clock work as well as possible.
  
 But you're unlikely to notice much difference unless something in your system is serioulsy broken.
  
 Source material quality on the other hand.... that's were you'll see some real gains.


----------



## skeptic

If anyone is interested in a more thorough discussion of jitter, this article by john swenson, designer of the upcoming bottlehead fpga based dac, is definitely worth a look. http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-2-are-bits-just-bits


----------



## Sorrodje

bourneperfect said:


> Hope that helps-and sorry I forgot to respond to your PM regarding this...
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 No worry  and thks for information.
  
 About dacs. I had a Hegel HD10 after my dacmagic. all psychological bias whould have pushed me to love it: hi end, ,nice casing, well regarded brand. And during the firt days i really enjoyed what I heared but a month later, my listens became painful .. too dry, sterile & so on. I traded the Hegel vs a REGA Dac and no more problem. Then I became a dac believer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  . I really think now A/B comparison ans Blind tests doesn"t tell us the whole story  .


----------



## hekeli

> I traded the Hegel vs a REGA Dac and no more problem. Then I became a dac believer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well duuh, I don't think anyone can claim or suggest that *all dacs *sound the same. As we know, even the filters can affect the sound quite a bit. Things get much more interesting when we know all parameters of the dacs and try to compare similar ones.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

http://www.head-fi.org/t/625793/audio-gd-master-7-discrete-fully-balanced-dac-pcm1704/1485#post_10344355

Read it , it is people from here , like myself that do understand .
I am not clIming anyone here must beleave . The only request I had is fine someone who has it and just listen both ways. 
And all dacs do not sound the same. But the point is if you remove enough jitter most dacs sound pretty good and thus similar 
Al


----------



## preproman

alrainbow said:


> So are in or out ?
> Now do you understand why it's converted to spidif ? Answer so all the bits are lined up now as spidif carries the clock and the data on one cable. And do not use a coax. Use the adaptors they give you. Why cause almost all coax cables do not match 75 ohms and more likely will cause there own jitter. . *Unless you spend 225 on a cable from imperical audio .*
> 
> The mKer of offramp.
> Al


 
  
 Huh?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Sorry I am sure my writing is the reason for the huh LOL. 

I Was trying to explain to someone what jitter is. . I believe they just feel it does not exist . And there is nothing I could do to make them understand it is real.

Al


----------



## paradoxper

skeptic said:


> If anyone is interested in a more thorough discussion of jitter, this article by john swenson, designer of the upcoming bottlehead fpga based dac, is definitely worth a look. http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-2-are-bits-just-bits


 
 The word jitter used 54 times! Who else feels sick..


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Lmao. We all need to understand it effects how e here our music. 

Al


----------



## paradoxper

alrainbow said:


> Lmao. We all need to understand it effects how e here our music.
> 
> Al


 
 Yea, but it's pretty overstated.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I know most feel this way. I have spent a lot of time and money 
In this hobby / obsession. It's a really big change we all would hear 
But I am not saying we all should spend 1200 on one
But I do feel if possible find someone with one 
and check it out. That's the whole point I am making here. 
I posted a link a while back to a shoutout 
Of 15 of these devices. Most do not use them
But the ones that do will tell you what I am saying
If you buy one you can use it with all your dacs 
Al


----------



## paradoxper

alrainbow said:


> I know most feel this way. I have spent a lot of time and money
> In this hobby / obsession. It's a really big change we all would hear
> But I am not saying we all should spend 1200 on one
> But I do feel if possible find someone with one
> ...


 
 Sorry, no.
  
 I, too, have spent a fair amount of money in this hobby, haven't we all. That isn't some 'qualification.'
  
 This hobby is fragile, subjectivity wreaks its havoc. Accept it. 
  
 I've played around with these converters, the yields are vastly overstated.
  
 If they work great for you, cool.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I guess so as I am very happy with mine 
And with me not showing you what you set missing 
I cannot help you. But keep this in mind 
I do sell these or any other items. And I am not a fan 
Of special cables either. So we will have to agree to disagree

Al


----------



## paradoxper

alrainbow said:


> I guess so as I am very happy with mine
> And with me not showing you what you set missing
> I cannot help you. But keep this in mind
> I do sell these or any other items. And I am not a fan
> ...


 
 Glad you are happy, bud.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I am comfortably numb. Lol 

Al


----------



## LugBug1

So while you's lot have been jittering on... And on..
  
 I've been taking some incredible pictures!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Me too
Hahaha

.


----------



## LugBug1

Can't see any jitter there bro..


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Not in the audio but plenty in the lousy pic I took. Lol. 

Al


----------



## palmfish

That is one really good-looking amp LugBug! I have always liked the Technics gear from that period.

Speaking of jitter, I'm on my 3rd cup of coffee...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Me too and playing black sabbath master of reality on the setup i showed. Wow the head banging is just second nature. Too bad i have no hair to move with it .
Some how i think the lcd crowd would just not understand LOL 
Al


----------



## LugBug1

palmfish said:


> That is one really good-looking amp LugBug! I have always liked the Technics gear from that period.
> 
> Speaking of jitter, I'm on my 3rd cup of coffee...


 
 Thanks buddy, yeah its turning out to be a winner with me - and the HD800. The sound isn't coloured at all, just nice and natural.


----------



## Dionysus

alrainbow said:


> Me too and playing black sabbath master of reality on the setup i showed. Wow the head banging is just second nature. Too bad i have no hair to move with it .
> Some how i think the lcd crowd would just not understand LOL
> Al




This one really made me lol. Learning some good stuff from ya bud. Been enjoying my HD800, the new Sabbath record is very good.


----------



## Aaron1006

lugbug1 said:


> I'd recommend the Beresford Bushmaster. It is the best budget dac I've heard and the good in-built headphone amp will give you a nice alternative to the Vali.


 
 Unfortunately my laptop has no spdif out so USB is a must .


----------



## Sonido




----------



## TwoEars

Shiny, shiny. Lastest and greatest I see. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Impresssion are of course welcome... amp and headphone.... in your own time.


----------



## Sonido

twoears said:


> Shiny, shiny. Lastest and greatest I see.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Initial impressions are great! While I'm a bit sleep deprived pulling an all nighter and picking the amp up this morning at 8am just so I can have a few hours of listening before work, I can still tell some immediate differences, so that bodes well! I'm sure when fully rested I'll be able to hear more. Between my previous setup for the HD800, Bottlehead Quickie + Crack and Schiit Vali, I found the Bottlehead setup to be more musical, while the Vali was more revealing and refined. Well through this amp, the Vali sounds rough in comparison. It brings out a whole new level of refinement and smoothness. I never realized how congested sounding the Vali was before this, but somehow there seems to be a clearer background and less congestion when playing through this amp. Also, it's easier to hear individual sounds and everything decays, once again, more smoothly and naturally. Especially the treble. Amazingly, it also makes the vocals sound natural and intimate, not drawn out. I found with the wide soundstage of the HD800, a lot of amp pairings caused unnaturally wide and thin vocals. Only my Bottlehead setup was able to provide intimate, natural vocals. Until now that is. I was afraid being solid state that this amp would make the HD800 analytical and clinical, but I find it more musical than the Vali because of the smoother sound. All of this is much more apparent on the HD800 than the K812, and that's not too surprising considering this amp was designed with the HD800 in mind.


----------



## BleaK

sonido said:


> Initial impressions are great! While I'm a bit sleep deprived pulling an all nighter and picking the amp up this morning at 8am just so I can have a few hours of listening before work, I can still tell some immediate differences, so that bodes well! I'm sure when fully rested I'll be able to hear more. Between my previous setup for the HD800, Bottlehead Quickie + Crack and Schiit Vali, I found the Bottlehead setup to be more musical, while the Vali was more revealing and refined. Well through this amp, the Vali sounds rough in comparison. It brings out a whole new level of refinement and smoothness. I never realized how congested sounding the Vali was before this, but somehow there seems to be a clearer background and less congestion when playing through this amp. Also, it's easier to hear individual sounds and everything decays, once again, more smoothly and naturally. Especially the treble. Amazingly, it also makes the vocals sound natural and intimate, not drawn out. I found with the wide soundstage of the HD800, a lot of amp pairings caused unnaturally wide and thin vocals. Only my Bottlehead setup was able to provide intimate, natural vocals. Until now that is. I was afraid being solid state that this amp would make the HD800 analytical and clinical, but I find it more musical than the Vali because of the smoother sound. All of this is much more apparent on the HD800 than the K812, and that's not too surprising considering this amp was designed with the HD800 in mind.


 

 Great impressions so far, thank you! Sorry for stalking you in this and the Questyle thread


----------



## Sonido

I'm gonna post my further impressions in the Questyle thread from now on. Subscribe to it here if you want to hear more:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/675239/questyle-cma800-current-mode-amp/330#post_10348245


----------



## roguegeek

So it looks like the CMA800R is getting thrown into the mix of options for an SS amp with preamps to be paired with the HD 800.


----------



## Mike F

Quick question. I just received my HD800's today. I notice that there's a slight unevenness to the foil driver surrounding on one part - the section at the back nearest to the headband. I'm not too bothered as it's the same on both sides, but I can't see the same thing on any pictures I can find, so I'm just wondering whether it's just mine, or whether it might be how the newest ones are (mines sn 27xxx), or whether they're all like that but you just can't see it on the pictures? I'm sure it doesn't affect how they sound - I'm just wondering.


----------



## TwoEars

So...
  
*I made a small post over here: *http://www.head-fi.org/t/709465/hd800-to-hd650-sound-signature-conversion-dolby-headphone-comment-discuss
  
 Have fun.


----------



## 62ohm

Out of curiosity, how does the RSA Dark Star compares with GS-X Mk.2 in driving HD800?


----------



## macbob713

bleak said:


> Great impressions so far, thank you! Sorry for stalking you in this and the Questyle thread



Great post.


----------



## macbob713

roguegeek said:


> So it looks like the CMA800R is getting thrown into the mix of options for an SS amp with preamps to be paired with the HD 800.



I would also suggest adding into the mix the Lehmann Audio Linear SE. I was fooling around with the gain settings on the amp, and going to the 0db to 10db setting made the hd800 jump to life. It was simply stunning. Prior to this I was primarily using a Lyr with the 800, which sounded great, but the Lehman has really opened everything up. Improved dynamics, greater clarity without any added glare or hardening of the treble, and an iron grip on the bass. The 800 sounds very musical with this pairing without accenting any negatives.


----------



## Amictus

macbob713 said:


> I would also suggest adding into the mix the Lehmann Audio Linear SE. I was fooling around with the gain settings on the amp, and going to the 0db to 10db setting made the hd800 jump to life. It was simply stunning. Prior to this I was primarily using a Lyr with the 800, which sounded great, but the Lehman has really opened everything up. Improved dynamics, greater clarity without any added glare or hardening of the treble, and an iron grip on the bass. The 800 sounds very musical with this pairing without accenting any negatives.


 

 Fascinating. I am currently plugged into Oppo103 - Kimber D60 coax - Schiit Gungnir - Kimber Silver Streak interconnect - Lovely Cube amp - HD800 with stock cable. The power cables are Kimber PowerKord 300 throughout and the combination is magical. The Schiit Lyr, which I bought as an upgrade to the Lovely Cube (and on which I spent $$$ in tubes), is not as good with the HD800 as the Lovely Cube Lehmann clone. The Lovely Cube really is stunning. You can imagine how much I want to audition the Linear SE!


----------



## macbob713

amictus said:


> Fascinating. I am currently plugged into Oppo103 - Kimber D60 coax - Schiit Gungnir - Kimber Silver Streak interconnect - Lovely Cube amp - HD800 with stock cable. The power cables are Kimber PowerKord 300 throughout and the combination is magical. The Schiit Lyr, which I bought as an upgrade to the Lovely Cube (and on which I spent $$$ in tubes), is not as good with the HD800 as the Lovely Cube Lehmann clone. The Lovely Cube really is stunning. You can imagine how much I want to audition the Linear SE!



Sounds like you have a killer system. Hopefully you have a way to audition the Lehmann. Worth a listen.


----------



## Maxvla

mike f said:


> Quick question. I just received my HD800's today. I notice that there's a slight unevenness to the foil driver surrounding on one part - the section at the back nearest to the headband. I'm not too bothered as it's the same on both sides, but I can't see the same thing on any pictures I can find, so I'm just wondering whether it's just mine, or whether it might be how the newest ones are (mines sn 27xxx), or whether they're all like that but you just can't see it on the pictures? I'm sure it doesn't affect how they sound - I'm just wondering.



Picture? Not sure exactly what you are talking about.


----------



## roguegeek

macbob713 said:


> I would also suggest adding into the mix the Lehmann Audio Linear SE. I was fooling around with the gain settings on the amp, and going to the 0db to 10db setting made the hd800 jump to life. It was simply stunning. Prior to this I was primarily using a Lyr with the 800, which sounded great, but the Lehman has really opened everything up. Improved dynamics, greater clarity without any added glare or hardening of the treble, and an iron grip on the bass. The 800 sounds very musical with this pairing without accenting any negatives.


 
  
 Cool. For for SS amps with preamps, it's looking like the following so far.

Questyle CMA800R
Lehmannaudio Linear SE
Senn HDVA 600
Bryston BHA-1
Luxman P-1u
Schiit Ragnarok (potentially)


----------



## Maxvla

Rogue, are you keeping this to a certain price range? The M-Stage ($280) and GS-X mk2 ($2800) are both SS and have preamps and work well with HD800s.


----------



## 62ohm

roguegeek said:


> Cool. For for SS amps with preamps, it's looking like the following so far.
> 
> Questyle CMA800R
> Lehmannaudio Linear SE
> ...


 
  
 How about the Phonitor?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I have a phonotor spl. It works very good with a hd800 and most Headphones. 

It's for sale ?

Al


----------



## roguegeek

maxvla said:


> Rogue, are you keeping this to a certain price range? The M-Stage ($280) and GS-X mk2 ($2800) are both SS and have preamps and work well with HD800s.


 
 Looks like I'm sticking around the $1.5k area.


----------



## roguegeek

62ohm said:


> How about the Phonitor?


 
Which one?
  
 May be getting into that region I don't want to pay, but I'll keep it on the list.


----------



## 62ohm

roguegeek said:


> Which one?


 
  
 Whichever, I don't even know the sound difference between the first and second Phonitor.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

It's the first one , the better one with all the switches on the front. It does mono with adjustments for left and right of position. It's about a year old. 
I know there is a new one honestly I do not know anything about the new one. This works well with all the normal headphones and IEMS too. It will not work witha HE6 type headphone .


Al


----------



## Maxvla

I don't like the Phonitor/Auditor combo with HD800s. Makes them sound dull.


----------



## preproman

^^  Same here.


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> ^^  Same here.


 
 you still liking the DNA HD800 combo? Any improvements after burn in? Maybe you could tease us with some pics? You get your new DAC yet? 
  
 Sorry bout all the questions.


----------



## BournePerfect

Dull, wonky, with a completely uncohesive soundstage. 

-Daniel


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Wow I need to,listen again I have only used it a few times last year . I never did any comparisons. . Now this will be interesting . As it does get good reviews for the hd800 headphone. .

Al


----------



## preproman

magiccabbage said:


> you still liking the DNA HD800 combo? Any improvements after burn in? Maybe you could tease us with some pics? You get your new DAC yet?
> 
> Sorry bout all the questions.


 
 I don't have the DNA - sorry..


----------



## ALRAINBOW

May I ask what dacs did you guys use , and did it have it's own volume control . If it did you should use the volume in the amp not the dac . 

I will,have to try it again. I use it but with iems . 

Al


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> I don't have the DNA - sorry..


 
 Sorry that was meant for greed. for some reason i thought i seen his profile picture - my bad.


----------



## roguegeek

maxvla said:


> I don't like the Phonitor/Auditor combo with HD800s. Makes them sound dull.


 
  


preproman said:


> ^^  Same here.


 
  
 Oh thank jebus because I don't want to spend $1900.


----------



## whitefang

The upcoming violectric V220/V281 has preamp out.


----------



## Revogamer

There is also the Auralic Taurus


----------



## skeptic

Just curiously - is there an ee lurking in the thread who can explain the difference between the headphone out and preamp outputs in these units?  I'm wondering how hard it would be to take a well regarded diy amp like the krell ksa5 klone, dynalo mk2, or even something like the wire, and add a preamp output.  
  
 Edit to add, as an aside, that if anyone has been waiting on a bottlehead sale to bite at a mainline - there's a site wide 10% off starting this evening/through tomorrow ( http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,5878.msg56710.html#new ).  If you are willing to pick up a soldering iron and want a highly resolved, uncolored parafeed tube amp that mates perfectly with hd800's, has excellent timbre, effortless transients, tight impactful bass and extended, but never strident, trebles, now's your chance.


----------



## MIKELAP

binot said:


> Hi.. Whilst awaiting the arrival of my new cable, I'd like to get some inputs on how difficult it is to remove the original HD800 cables. Are the plugs very tight? Is it a simple straight pull? I'm a bit nervous ..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Sonido

No better way to describe it: The Questyle with HD800 is like the end of Kung Fu Hustle where the guy unlocks his true potential and is simply on a whole new level.


----------



## elvergun

sonido said:


> No better way to describe it: The Questyle with HD800 is like the end of Kung Fu Hustle where the guy unlocks his true potential and is simply on a whole new level.


 

 LOL


----------



## 62ohm

sonido said:


> No better way to describe it: The Questyle with HD800 is like the end of Kung Fu Hustle where the guy unlocks his true potential and is simply on a whole new level.


 
  
 What do you think about the CMA800R vs the HDVA600 / HDVD800?


----------



## Sonido

62ohm said:


> What do you think about the CMA800R vs the HDVA600 / HDVD800?


 

 I personally haven't heard the Sennheiser amps.


----------



## Amictus

roguegeek said:


> Cool. For for SS amps with preamps, it's looking like the following so far.
> 
> Questyle CMA800R
> Lehmannaudio Linear SE
> ...







maxvla said:


> Rogue, are you keeping this to a certain price range? The M-Stage ($280) and GS-X mk2 ($2800) are both SS and have preamps and work well with HD800s.







62ohm said:


> How about the Phonitor?




It's like seeing the rest of my life in amps. Looks like I'm going to have to work until I'm 80+...


----------



## oscar777

amictus said:


> It's like seeing the rest of my life in amps. Looks like I'm going to have to work until I'm 80+...


 
 ROTFL


----------



## roguegeek

amictus said:


> It's like seeing the rest of my life in amps. Looks like I'm going to have to work until I'm 80+...


 
 OMG, ha!


----------



## Mike F

maxvla said:


> Picture? Not sure exactly what you are talking about.


 
  

  
 I'm talking about the screen section nearest to the 'R'. The unevenness doesn't show well on the photo which may explain why I've never seen it before on an HD800 as all I've ever seen is photos(!), but that section is quite uneven (wrinkly) looking in real life. As I say, it's the same on the other side so I can except it, but it's just not what I expected which was cosmetic perfection! Are they all like this?


----------



## namaiki

I'm guessing the foil has to be bent at the top corner of that section for fit. I see the same in mine on both sides.


----------



## akhyar

Mine also looks almost the same.
 A bit wavy, especially if there's light reflection on it


----------



## magiccabbage

mike f said:


> I'm talking about the screen section nearest to the 'R'. The unevenness doesn't show well on the photo which may explain why I've never seen it before on an HD800 as all I've ever seen is photos(!), but that section is quite uneven (wrinkly) looking in real life. As I say, it's the same on the other side so I can except it, but it's just not what I expected which was cosmetic perfection! Are they all like this?


 
 if it is actually bent like that it would annoy the **** out of me. Id have to send it back - it looks like a squashed coke can


----------



## TwoEars

I've seen several like that in audio stores. Don't know if they came like that or if it's prone to happening after a lot people checking them out.


----------



## Mike F

Perhaps the newer ones are like this but the older ones aren't? Mine's 27xxx. What are the sn's of others who's are like this, and the sn's of those who's aren't?


----------



## jerrick85

My serial number is also 27xxx. I can see them.


----------



## akhyar

mike f said:


> Perhaps the newer ones are like this but the older ones aren't? Mines 27088. What are the sn's of others who's are like this, and the sn's of those who's aren't?


 
  
 Mine is also 270xx and can see a bit wavy


----------



## namaiki

Another 27xxx with the wavy.


----------



## jerrick85

It will be better if someone with sn 28xxx also give their feedback on this subject. So we can confirm that this is not an issue with 27xxx hd800s.


----------



## MIKELAP

jerrick85 said:


> It will be better if someone with sn 28xxx also give their feedback on this subject. So we can confirm that this is not an issue with 27xxx hd800s.


 
 If all the HD800 are designed that way they will all warp eventually . Mine, serial number is in the 20xxx and it slightly warp also its just a tin screen after all .


----------



## jerrick85

mikelap said:


> If all the HD800 are designed that way they will all warp *eventually* . Mine, serial number is in the 20xxx and it slightly warp also its just a tin screen after all .


 
 Mine is pretty new. Bought only a month ago, also guys confirmed so far have similar serial number starting with 27xxx. That's why i thought whether this affects only from 27xxx.


----------



## TwoEars

14xxx here. it's fine.


----------



## skeptic

Very early SN 01519 here, and there is nothing even remotely resembling warping on the mesh. Looks like a superficial defect to me.


----------



## lamboy1

13xxx here its fine


----------



## P+D-MI

#00470 here, screens are perfect. I believe they are stainless steel, btw.


----------



## jh7000

#16634 - my screens are perfect.


----------



## igormsk

#22xxx - my screens are perfect, except for greasy fingerprints on them


----------



## elvergun

jerrick85 said:


> It will be better if someone with sn 28xxx also give their feedback on this subject. So we can confirm that this is not an issue with 27xxx hd800s.


 

 I have a wavy 28xxx.


----------



## LugBug1

Hey, theres nothing wrong with a few wrinkles.. Adds character! 
  
  
 (I can say that because mine are wrinkle free at 21*** )
  
 So its looking like the first wrinkles appear from 27 onwards... See where I'm going with this..


----------



## Mike F

Hmmm..... what to do? It seems as if we've established that all the new ones (certainly from around 27xxx anyway) are similar to mine, so there would be no point in sending back to the dealer for a replacement which would doubtless be the same. On one hand I'm reassured as mine is not the only one like this, but OTOH it's somewhat annoying that this seems to be a cosmetic 'fault' that the earlier ones don't have. I find it hard to believe that the change has escaped the notice of Sennheiser seeing as the HD800 is entirely hand made, so may be they'd have an explanation for it? I think there are a few industry insiders on the forum from Sennheiser. Would it be better to PM them or contact Sennheiser direct?


----------



## TwoEars

It's only a cosmetic defect I believe, shouldn't effect sound quality.
  
 But i can understand that you'd want them perfect if you just bought them.
  
 I would PM this guy: http://www.head-fi.org/u/146072/rosmadi-mahmood
  
 And see what he says.


----------



## Mike F

twoears said:


> It's only a cosmetic defect I believe, shouldn't effect sound quality.
> 
> But i can understand that you'd want them perfect if you just bought them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks! I've just sent a PM.


----------



## elvergun

Maybe the 27xxx-28xxx were made in October....perhaps the workers at the Sennheiser factory celebrated Oktoberfest a little too hard.
  
 It does not affect the SQ, so I don't really care.


----------



## Mike F

Maybe it's intentional as it actually enhances the sound quality?!?


----------



## swspiers

I dunno folk.  They may be great headphones, but it's not like they only cost $200.  I am thinking about buying a pair, but this is definitely making me sit back and watch for a bit before I commit to that kind of money.


----------



## roguegeek

282xx: My screens came out of the box not in the perfect condition you see in the promo pics. No big deal though. My HD 700 was exactly the same way. It doesn't really bother me.


----------



## Mike F

swspiers said:


> I dunno folk.  They may be great headphones, but it's not like they only cost $200.  I am thinking about buying a pair, but this is definitely making me sit back and watch for a bit before I commit to that kind of money.




Well, exactly. I hope there's a good reason why they are like this now rather than sloppy construction, even if it has no affect on SQ.


----------



## swspiers

mike f said:


> Well, exactly. I hope there's a good reason why they are like this now rather than sloppy construction, even if it has no affect on SQ.


 

 It's a big concern.  And I hope y'all can accept that I'm not trolling here: I am seriously interested in this headphone.  With the Alpha Dogs, I'm curious about what the next step will bring me. The HD800's are a logical choice, but not if they aren't perfect.  Cosmetic or not, if I shell out $1500 for anything audio-related I expect it to be perfect.


----------



## roguegeek

roguegeek said:


> Questyle CMA800R (ss, single-ended (2), balanced, RCA preamp)
> Lehmannaudio Linear SE (ss, single-ended (2), RCA preamp)
> Senn HDVA 600 (ss, single-ended (2), balanced (2), balanced preamp?)
> Bryston BHA-1 (ss, single-ended, balanced (2), balanced preamp?)
> ...


 
 My requirements are a solid-state amp with single-ended headphone outputs and a preamp to run powered speakers. The signature needs to not add much color to the HD 800 and compliment the soundstage, separation, detail, and resolution. I'm trying to keep in in the area of $1500. Optionally, balanced headphone outputs would be nice.
  
 Anything else I should throw onto this list to check out? Also, are those balanced output in the rear of the of the amp that I marked in red made to drive powered external monitors?


----------



## 62ohm

swspiers said:


> It's a big concern.  And I hope y'all can accept that I'm not trolling here: I am seriously interested in this headphone.  With the Alpha Dogs, I'm curious about what the next step will bring me. The HD800's are a logical choice, but not if they aren't perfect.  Cosmetic or not, if I shell out $1500 for anything audio-related I expect it to be perfect.


 
  
 I think Mike F's pair of HD800 may be one of the very rare pair with imperfect cosmetics, although it doesn't affect SQ. And if you want to wait for the 'perfect' headphone before shelling out your money, chances are you're never going to get them because there aren't any IMO.


----------



## Sonido

roguegeek said:


> My requirements are a solid-state amp with single-ended headphone outputs and a preamp to run powered speakers. The signature needs to not add much color to the HD 800 and compliment the soundstage, separation, detail, and resolution. I'm trying to keep in in the area of $1500. Optionally, balanced headphone outputs would be nice.
> 
> Anything else I should throw onto this list to check out? Also, are those balanced output in the rear of the of the amp that I marked in red made to drive powered external monitors?



Lol Questyle should be 0.5 balanced. You need two to go balanced, each acts as monoblocks in balanced mode. This is a good thing to me though. If you get a balanced amp and don't use the balanced out, chances are you're only using half of the internal circuit and thus half the amp. Kinda wasting you money that way. With the Questyle, you get to use the entire amp with single ended, and when you're ready to go balanced you get another one. Your money is being used 100% either way.


----------



## roguegeek

sonido said:


> Lol Questyle should be 0.5 balanced. You need two to go balanced, each acts as monoblocks in balanced mode. This is a good thing to me though. If you get a balanced amp and don't use the balanced out, chances are you're only using half of the internal circuit and thus half the amp. Kinda wasting you money that way. With the Questyle, you get to use the entire amp with single ended, and when you're ready to go balanced you get another one. Your money is being used 100% either way.


 
 This is probably why, based solely on the objective functions, the CMA800R is at the top of this list. Although that's kind of impressive features in the Ragnarok for the price. They need to get that thing out the door so I can hear some HD 800 impressions with it.


----------



## 62ohm

roguegeek said:


> This is probably why, based solely on the objective functions, the CMA800R is at the top of this list. Although that's kind of impressive features in the Ragnarok for the price. They need to get that thing out the door so I can hear some HD 800 impressions with it.


 
  
 If the Ragnarok pairs unbelievably good with HD800, than I would have to endure what will become the torment of the century (Schiit products cost irrationally expensive in NZ).


----------



## Mike F

62ohm said:


> I think Mike F's pair of HD800 may be one of the very rare pair with imperfect cosmetics, although it doesn't affect SQ. And if you want to wait for the 'perfect' headphone before shelling out your money, chances are you're never going to get them because there aren't any IMO.




But it seems as though this 'defect' is present on many other peoples 27xxx and 28xxx SN's, not just my pair. I agree with the second half of your post though.


----------



## TwoEars

roguegeek said:


> My requirements are a solid-state amp with single-ended headphone outputs and a preamp to run powered speakers. The signature needs to not add much color to the HD 800 and compliment the soundstage, separation, detail, and resolution. I'm trying to keep in in the area of $1500. Optionally, balanced headphone outputs would be nice.
> 
> Anything else I should throw onto this list to check out? Also, are those balanced output in the rear of the of the amp that I marked in red made to drive powered external monitors?


 
  
 Violectric V200 is a great choice also. It has balanced inputs but SE outputs, lots of people recommend it.


----------



## 62ohm

mike f said:


> But it seems as though this 'defect' is present on many other peoples 27xxx and 28xxx SN's, not just my pair. I agree with the second half of your post though.


 
  
 Ah than in that case I guess it would be better for anyone to put on half any plan on getting an HD800, or go to a store with HD800 available and ask them to get them out and see in person whether it's defective or not.


----------



## Dionysus

At work, ill check my pair later today and report back. 28xxx, though I swear I didn't see anything wrong with mine out of the box.


----------



## Maxvla

twoears said:


> Violectric V200 is a great choice also. It has balanced inputs but SE outputs, lots of people recommend it.



I would go Mjolnir instead. Fairly similar sound for $250 less.


----------



## TwoEars

maxvla said:


> I would go Mjolnir instead. Fairly similar sound for $250 less.


 
  
 Have you compared those to back to back?
  
 I was under the impression that the mjolnir was a fairly upfront in your face presentation while the violectric (which I've heard) was the more laid back one with a fuller bass. At least that's what I've read about the mjolnir...


----------



## macbob713

I've owned the Mjolinor, HDVD800, and now the Lehmann Linear SE. To my ear, the hdvd800 was the perfect and best match. However I returned it when It didn't sound good on the AKG K712pro I was also using at the time. For an amp just for the hd800, the Sennheiser is hard to beat. If your looking to run multiple cans, I preferred the Lehman. If you already have a DAC, you can save hundreds of dollars by opting for the HDVD600.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Thanks for posting I keep saying it's the best I have heard and get bashed by some. I do not understand why the hdvd800 or 600 gets bashed. 

Al


----------



## Maxvla

twoears said:


> Have you compared those to back to back?
> 
> I was under the impression that the mjolnir was a fairly upfront in your face presentation while the violectric (which I've heard) was the more laid back one with a fuller bass. At least that's what I've read about the mjolnir...



No, different times. I would imagine the V200 was auditioned with the V800 and the Mjolnir with the Gungnir, which explains the sound you've been told about. The V800 is somewhat relaxed, while the Gungnir is very aggressive. The amps themselves are pretty similar. Smooth and clear but lacking air and ultimate transparency.


----------



## TwoEars

macbob713 said:


> I've owned the Mjolinor, HDVD800, and now the Lehmann Linear SE. To my ear, the hdvd800 was the perfect and best match. However I returned it when It didn't sound good on the AKG K712pro I was also using at the time. For an amp just for the hd800, the Sennheiser is hard to beat. If your looking to run multiple cans, I preferred the Lehman. If you already have a DAC, you can save hundreds of dollars by opting for the HDVD600.


 
   
 Quote:


alrainbow said:


> Thanks for posting I keep saying it's the best I have heard and get bashed by some. I do not understand why the hdvd800 or 600 gets bashed.
> 
> Al


 
  
 Interesting stuff. What would you say it was that the Sennheiser amps they did so well if you don't mind me asking. I haven't heard them myself.
  


maxvla said:


> No, different times. I would imagine the V200 was auditioned with the V800 and the Mjolnir with the Gungnir, which explains the sound you've been told about. The V800 is somewhat relaxed, while the Gungnir is very aggressive. The amps themselves are pretty similar. Smooth and clear but lacking air and ultimate transparency.


 
  
 I heard the V200 in a shop and thought it sounded great, the shop used a hegel HD2 dac which is farily basic but pretty smooth.
  
 But if you say that it's the gungnir that's aggressive that could explain the forum comments I've been reading about the mjolnir! Thank's for clearing that up.
  
 Maybe the mjolnir really is a great amp for the HD800, it just needs the right dac.


----------



## macbob713

I thought the HDVD800 with the HD800 was a smooth operator. More body and depth,very smooth top end, improved musicality.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I would start off with tonal balance the lows were clean and power full
The mids where as real as it can be. And I am the first to say 
Most insrtumints as good as they sound are not real
The highs have clarity , energy , and staging 
The overall presentation is just powerfull enough but still has all the delegate details 
That makes the music just have more pleasure 
Now this is with ther DAC and flac files down sampled 
To 24/96 and using my 3 k offramp. 
Now without the offramp it has all the same but the level of details gets a little smeared above the mids into treble
But that is the DAC. Now with my msb DAC 
Is all of the above but several levels above it all 
The layers and separation is better than being there 

Ok start bashing NOW !!!

Al


----------



## macbob713

Another great advantage of the HDVd amps is that they were designed by the same engineer at Sennheiser who designed and voiced the HD800. I'm sure there are other very good amps out there that would play nice with the hd800, but with these amps all the guess work is done.


----------



## Maxvla

With that logic, Stax amps should be the best for Stax headphones.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I have a theory on that too. Why are we lead to beleave that anyway. Was the ledgendary HE90 paired with the HEV90 bad. ?
So with that in mind a company like sennheiser who has more testing experience then anyone in the world with headphones and mics fail so miserable . 
The answer is they dident we failed to really know just what the gear is to sound like. . We are made to beleave it needs colorations that other amps give it. 
I own the HE60 HEV 60 combo. It has a beefed up PSU . The amp is as good as my 6k woo Wes and my BHSE . In fact the only reason i do not use it is it does not play all my music loud enough for my desires. It sis clear and detailed in a way that best suites the headphones . Now this is all conjecture as it is my opinion. 

Al


----------



## Maxvla

What I've read is that the HEV90 sounds good but other amps do it better. The HEV60 on the other hand I've read is woefully underpowered. Another company to think about is Beyerdynamic and their amps which I've read are not very good. The Kingsound amps are also said to be poorly designed while their headphones are not great but not bad.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Not arguing. I do not know about Beyer amps or headphones . The ones I did hear I just did not like. But that means nothing it's my opinion. Now the HEV60 is under powered 
But not bad sounding. But if you read reviews they claim it is bad sounding 
Al


----------



## Dionysus

mike f said:


> I'm talking about the screen section nearest to the 'R'. The unevenness doesn't show well on the photo which may explain why I've never seen it before on an HD800 as all I've ever seen is photos(!), but that section is quite uneven (wrinkly) looking in real life. As I say, it's the same on the other side so I can except it, but it's just not what I expected which was cosmetic perfection! Are they all like this?




After checking mine at home, it looks very similar to yours but I see no issue with them. I am not going to sweat it really.


----------



## elms

SN 26xxx with wavy screen.


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> I have a theory on that too. Why are we lead to beleave that anyway. Was the ledgendary HE90 paired with the HEV90 bad. ?
> So with that in mind a company like sennheiser who has more testing experience then anyone in the world with headphones and mics fail so miserable .
> The answer is they dident we failed to really know just what the gear is to sound like. . We are made to beleave it needs colorations that other amps give it.
> I own the HE60 HEV 60 combo. It has a beefed up PSU . The amp is as good as my 6k woo Wes and my BHSE . In fact the only reason i do not use it is it does not play all my music loud enough for my desires. It sis clear and detailed in a way that best suites the headphones . Now this is all conjecture as it is my opinion.
> ...


 
 Do you think that in the case of the HDVD800 they might have sacrificed a small portion of sound quality to make the amp more affordable? I dont know if this is actually the case or not. I heard the amp for a few hours and i do think it sounds good although at the time i proffered my setup. I wonder if it is actually as good as the best solid state amps available - like the GSXMK2?


----------



## skeptic

From a cost standpoint, bear in mind that the gsx is just a very nicely executed balanced dynalo (an affordable open source design by Dr. Gilmore, dating back to 2001).  Dynahi is actually the high end, hotrodded version of that amp.  
  
 http://www.djgardner.com/headphone/gilmore/


----------



## Maxvla

The Dynahi, though, is basically unnecessary for headphones.


----------



## MacedonianHero

maxvla said:


> The Dynahi, though, is basically unnecessary for headphones.


 
 Except for the HE-6s, agreed.


----------



## bearFNF

Wow, all the talk about wavy screens got me to run and look at mine, 20xxx no wave.  But it also made me think, if you are this picky about the little wave 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, just wait till the finger prints show up in the screen, that that probably drive you nuts... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  No matter how careful you are, they will show up, greasy oily dirty finger prints in your screen...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And then it gets worse, HOW DO YOU CLEAN THEM???  You will cause a wave if you touch them with a cotton swab or a lint free rag.  oh, the conundrum!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 OCD powers activate!!!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I am sure it had cost prohibits. Just look at the dac inside. They put all the money on the amp. 
And I am not saying it's the best. But I am also saying there is no better just different and what I like compared to you. 

Now if I add a AP1/PP at about 1400. Or so the dac is much better. So yes that Amp is way better. But to get back to the topic. We always want better than what a company has spent years in making LOL. 

Al


----------



## Sonido

alrainbow said:


> I am sure it had cost prohibits. Just look at the dac inside. They put all the money on the amp.
> And I am not saying it's the best. But I am also saying there is no better just different and what I like compared to you.
> 
> Now if I add a AP1/PP at about 1400. Or so the dac is much better. So yes that Amp is way better. But to get back to the topic. We always want better than what a company has spent years in making LOL.
> ...


 

 So HDVD800 DAC + AP1/PP is better than any DAC under $2000? Otherwise just get HDVA600 and $2000 DAC.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I look at it this way. Even the 2000 dac needs a AP1/PP to sound it's best. And the DAC in the HDVD800 is pretty good with it . 

So it's a win win. 

Al


----------



## Sonido

alrainbow said:


> I look at it this way. Even the 2000 dac needs a AP1/PP to sound it's best. And the DAC in the HDVD800 is pretty good with it .
> 
> So it's a win win.
> 
> Al


 

 Given now that I have a very transparent amp in the Questyle, and I can easily hear the difference between between my DC-1 vs my Modi, the AP1/PP almost tempts me if it really is as you say it. Also, the USB on the DC-1 doesn't play well at USB 2.0 mode for me. It clicks pretty often when playing music, probably due to drivers or my laptop. This forces me to use it in USB 1.1 and could be detrimental to sound quality. It definitely caps at 96 kHz instead of 192.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Well you need to fix that first. It sounds like a buffer issue . Go into control panel and ,look for USB and properties . Increase buffer. Also priority for audio. .
I am not expert but there is no point in buying something that most likely not help in your case.

Al


----------



## Speedy Pedro

macbob713 said:


> Another great advantage of the HDVd amps is that they were designed by the same engineer at Sennheiser who designed and voiced the HD800. I'm sure there are other very good amps out there that would play nice with the hd800, but with these amps all the guess work is done.


 
 I thought so as well. But after trying the HDVA 600 with the HD 800 repeatedly I have come to the unfortunate conclusion that Sennheiser should have done a better job with the amp. Much preferred the Auralic Taurus v. 2 in head to head.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

And that is fine. As we all have out own likes . Even the engineer had his LOL. 

Al


----------



## macbob713

speedy pedro said:


> I thought so as well. But after trying the HDVA 600 with the HD 800 repeatedly I have come to the unfortunate conclusion that Sennheiser should have done a better job with the amp. Much preferred the Auralic Taurus v. 2 in head to head.



I've read nothing but great things about the Auralic, never heard one though. Tyll at Innerfidelity has been using one for about a year. I think I was posing this with amps in a certain price range for buying options. I had the HDVD800 and enjoyed it, but ultimately returned it. Ended up at this time with the Lehmann Linear SE, which sounds better to me with the HD800 than the HDVD800.


----------



## 62ohm

What about the HDVA600 / HDVD800 vs Bryston BHA-1? Has anyone heard both with HD800?
  
_edit: _The HDVA600 actually costs $200 NZD *less* than the BHA-1 in New Zealand..


----------



## PleasantSounds

alrainbow said:


> I have a theory on that too. Why are we lead to beleave that anyway. Was the ledgendary HE90 paired with the HEV90 bad. ?
> So with that in mind a company like sennheiser who has more testing experience then anyone in the world with headphones and mics fail so miserable .
> The answer is they dident we failed to really know just what the gear is to sound like. . We are made to beleave it needs colorations that other amps give it.
> I own the HE60 HEV 60 combo. It has a beefed up PSU . The amp is as good as my 6k woo Wes and my BHSE . In fact the only reason i do not use it is it does not play all my music loud enough for my desires. It sis clear and detailed in a way that best suites the headphones . Now this is all conjecture as it is my opinion.
> ...


 
  
 I don't think we failed anything here. At this level technical capabilities are considered granted, and the matter is largely of preferences. Don't forget that the majority here buys this equipment to enjoy music,
 No Sennheiser engineer can dictate what I should like, even if he's the very guy who designed the headphones I prefer.


----------



## Sonido

macbob713 said:


> *I've owned the Mjolinor, HDVD800, and now the Lehmann Linear SE. To my ear, the hdvd800 was the perfect and best match. *However I returned it when It didn't sound good on the AKG K712pro I was also using at the time. For an amp just for the hd800, the Sennheiser is hard to beat. If your looking to run multiple cans, I preferred the Lehman. If you already have a DAC, you can save hundreds of dollars by opting for the HDVD600.


 
  
 Quote:


macbob713 said:


> I've read nothing but great things about the Auralic, never heard one though. Tyll at Innerfidelity has been using one for about a year. I think I was posing this with amps in a certain price range for buying options. I had the HDVD800 and enjoyed it, but ultimately returned it. *Ended up at this time with the Lehmann Linear SE, which sounds better to me with the HD800 than the HDVD800.*


 
  
 So which is it? Or has your decision changed this past couple of hours after more careful listening to Lehmann and HD800?


----------



## macbob713

sonido said:


> So which is it? Or has your decision changed this past couple of hours?



Good Question. I keep pondering this. It's been several months since I heard the HDVD800. When I first returned it, I did enjoy it with the hd800. I've been listening to the hd800 as well as the K812 on the Lehmann every night over the past week. I did send the Senn amp back because of compatibility issues with the K712.
However, I still believe the Lehmann would be my preference. Both sets of cans work with this amp. The HD800 synergizes so well with it, it's given me a new appreciation of just how good it can be.
Sorry for the muddled thinking on the other post.


----------



## skeptic

maxvla said:


> The Dynahi, though, is basically unnecessary for headphones.




Not sure what you mean by unnecessary. All of us in this thread blew past that marker miles ago! If you read the comparison threads - google "dynahi vs", those who have built and owned both amps universally seem to prefer the dynahi, irrespective of the headphones used. Shahrose used to post about it constantly here as well.

Problem is that it is a difficult build requiring custom off board heat sinks. Thus, no commercial builders. Certain components were also discontinued, but I understand there are now substitutes that work with the revamped boards. I'm sitting on all the hard to source parts for the older version but feel like I need a couple more real projects under my belt before giving this monster a go - starting with the wire, which at least one mot reportedly prefers to a dynahi (although I tend to doubt I will be in that camp).


----------



## SoupRKnowva

maxvla said:


> The Dynahi, though, is basically unnecessary for headphones.



 




But...SuSy!!!


----------



## roguegeek

macbob713 said:


> I've read nothing but great things about the Auralic, never heard one though. Tyll at Innerfidelity has been using one for about a year.


 
 Adding it to the list...

*Questyle CMA800R*: $1499, ss, single-ended (2), balanced, RCA preamp
*AURALiC Taurus MKII*: $1899, ss, single-ended, balanced, RCA+balanced preamp
*Lehmannaudio Linear SE*: ss, single-ended (2), RCA preamp
*Senn HDVA 600*: $1499, ss, single-ended (2), balanced (2), balanced preamp?
*Bryston BHA-1*: $1395, ss, single-ended, balanced (2), balanced preamp?
*Luxman P-1u*: ss, single-ended (2), RCA preamp
*Schiit Ragnarok*: $1499, ss, single-ended, balanced, RCA preamp, balanced preamp?


----------



## Sorrodje

DNA Sonett 2 ordered ... The few next weeks will be very very long...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My MG Head is up for sale. Really good amp for the HD800 if anyone is interested.


----------



## MickeyVee

Sweet! Congratulations.  This is on my short list of amps for the HD800. Let us know how it is.
 Quote:


sorrodje said:


> DNA Sonett 2 ordered ... The few next weeks will be very very long...


----------



## preproman

skeptic said:


> Not sure what you mean by unnecessary. All of us in this thread blew past that marker miles ago! If you read the comparison threads - google "dynahi vs", those who have built and owned both amps universally seem to prefer the dynahi, irrespective of the headphones used. Shahrose used to post about it constantly here as well.
> 
> Problem is that it is a difficult build requiring custom off board heat sinks. Thus, no commercial builders. Certain components were also discontinued, but I understand there are now substitutes that work with the revamped boards. I'm sitting on all the hard to source parts for the older version but feel like I need a couple more real projects under my belt before giving this monster a go - starting with the wire, which at least one mot reportedly prefers to a dynahi (although I tend to doubt I will be in that camp).


 
  
 The Super Symmetry Dynahi use on board heat sinks.  Also it's said to be the best Solid State amp ever used with the HD800.   Although, KG also said it was overkill for the HD800.  A little overkill never hurt.  
  
 I'm hoping the have the GS-X mk2 and the susy D-hi side by side in the future.


----------



## Blasyrkh

Hi guys, I just bought the HD800 here in italy for 800€....I want to register but I don't know where!! could anyone help me please?


----------



## LugBug1

blasyrkh said:


> Hi guys, I just bought the HD800 here in italy for 800€....I want to register but I don't know where!! could anyone help me please?


 
 http://en-uk.sennheiser.com/service-support-services-register-your-product
  
 there you go, and congrats!


----------



## Blasyrkh

lugbug1 said:


> http://en-uk.sennheiser.com/service-support-services-register-your-product
> 
> there you go, and congrats!


 
 thank you!!
  
 how much time does it takes to receive the graph?


----------



## LugBug1

blasyrkh said:


> thank you!!
> 
> how much time does it takes to receive the graph?


 
 I think it took about a week for mine


----------



## Blasyrkh

lugbug1 said:


> I think it took about a week for mine


 
 thanks!
  
 it seems they send it by email and not post


----------



## LugBug1

blasyrkh said:


> thanks!
> 
> it seems they send it by email and not post


 
 Yeah, they used to send it by post but now its only by email.


----------



## Sorrodje

mickeyvee said:


> Sweet! Congratulations.  This is on my short list of amps for the HD800. Let us know how it is.


 
  
  
 Thks. I'll keep the Vali in order to have a comparison point


----------



## MickeyVee

There are some nights I just can't handle the HD800, I seem to find something wrong which is generally they sound too thin.  Other times, just perfect like tonight.
 Is it just me trying to justify a new amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 or do others have the same experience?


----------



## bearFNF

That's why I have several different headphones, need to switch it up sometimes. Oh and a few different amps also...


----------



## MickeyVee

You're not helping the cause! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I hear ya.. I switch over to the RS1i when I want a dirty, gritty and super fun sound.  For really well recorded stuff, nothing beats the HD800.. (well, almost nothing)
 Quote:


bearfnf said:


> That's why I have several different headphones, need to switch it up sometimes. Oh and a few different amps also...


----------



## skeptic

preproman said:


> The Super Symmetry Dynahi use on board heat sinks.  Also it's said to be the best Solid State amp ever used with the HD800.   Although, KG also said it was overkill for the HD800.  A little overkill never hurt.
> 
> I'm hoping the have the GS-X mk2 and the susy D-hi side by side in the future.


 
  
 Nice!  I'll be looking forward to your impressions and comparison!
  
 I had totally forgotten that the new SUSY dynahi has on board heat sinks.  That's really a game changer.  The most prudent move for me is probably to just stick the old boards in the closet and go that route.  The lack of complication in case work and not having to locate and invest in heat sinks and L brackets will certainly make up for any lost/sunk costs I eat.  I can't help eyeing the new proto susy dynalo mk2 as well and, for that matter, the krell klone.  There are just too many good options in diy right now.  Love having those sorts of first world problems


----------



## James-uk

mickeyvee said:


> There are some nights I just can't handle the HD800, I seem to find something wrong which is generally they sound too thin.  Other times, just perfect like tonight.
> Is it just me trying to justify a new amp :veryevil:  or do others have the same experience?




Same for me, I find it really frustrating . It always reminds me how our moods etc play such a massive part in our perception. Same amp, same headphones , same album yet some days it sounds perfect and others it sounds garbage!


----------



## roguegeek

mickeyvee said:


>





> You're not helping the cause!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh it's totally true. I love my HD 800 and it's on my head every night, but there are still those times I'm grabbing the HD 600 because that's what I'm feeling at the time.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

It takes about 30 mins for any amp
Or DAC to sound it's best. Tube amps less. 
So maybe it's not all warmed up. 

Al


----------



## frankrondaniel

mickeyvee said:


> There are some nights I just can't handle the HD800, I seem to find something wrong which is generally they sound too thin.  Other times, just perfect like tonight.
> Is it just me trying to justify a new amp
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's funny - I'm a fairly new owner of HD800's and that's the exact sentiment that I was expressing to a friend today.  With the right recording - like Donald Fagen's "Morph The Cat" - they sound fantastic.  Other times, not so much.  Definitely very picky.  I've definitely been perusing the thread for possible new amps.  I think I see one in my future!


----------



## Blasyrkh

me too...
 do no underestimate:
  
 1- cerumen in the ears, you can't see that and can stop some frequencies
 2- output power inconsistency, slight variation in voltage can make your gear sound differently


----------



## palmfish

alrainbow said:


> It takes about 30 mins for any amp
> Or DAC to sound it's best. Tube amps less.
> So maybe it's not all warmed up.
> 
> Al


 
 A microwave oven warms them up in just 30 seconds.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Funny thanks. My office rig tales at least 30 min just cooking to sound good. 

Al


----------



## sp3llv3xit

alrainbow said:


> It takes about 30 mins for any amp
> Or DAC to sound it's best. Tube amps less.
> So maybe it's not all warmed up.
> 
> Al


 


 How true.  [I learned this after a long series of experimentation.  Now, I just submit to it.  My HD800 sounds better after the WA6-SE has been given at least 15 minutes to warm up.]


----------



## punit

Quote:


alrainbow said:


> Funny thanks. My office rig tales at least 30 min just cooking to sound good.
> 
> Al


 
  
  


sp3llv3xit said:


> How true.  [I learned this after a long series of experimentation.  Now, I just submit to it.  My HD800 sounds better after the WA6-SE has been given at least 15 minutes to warm up.]


 
 That's why the first thing I do when I get home from work is switch the amp /dac on, then I kiss the wife & kids


----------



## koiloco

punit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> That's why the first thing I do when I get home from work is switch the amp /dac on, then I kiss the wife & kids *goodbye*?


----------



## sp3llv3xit

punit said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> That's why the first thing I do when I get home from work is switch the amp /dac on, then I kiss the wife & kids


 

 You must be a good kisser then because your wife doesn't need time to warm up after your kiss.


----------



## Sorrodje

Anyone did compare the schiit vali and the DNA Sonett or Sonett 2 ? I have To wait a few weeks before getting my new toy. The vali sounds far less tubey than my mg head & and i would know where is the Sonett between the two.


----------



## Blasyrkh

here is my graph, 28xxx


----------



## MickeyVee

+1 - Turn the system on right after work and run music.  By the time I get to it an hour or two later, ready to rock'n'roll.
 Quote:


punit said:


> That's why the first thing I do when I get home from work is switch the amp /dac on, then I kiss the wife & kids


----------



## eantala

anyone got any very good results powering HD800 form a headphone jack of any integrated amp?
  
 my integrated which I was using to power my 2 way speakers died,  so rather than looking at more dedicated headphones amps looking for a great integrated amp that can kill 2 birds with one stone if possible?  not sure when teh schiit ragnarok comes out but looking for something along those lines.


----------



## Mambosenior

punit said:


> Quote:
> That's why the first thing I do when I get home from work is switch the amp /dac on, then I kiss the wife & kids




I kiss the audio gear and turn on the wife. Music sounds better after.


----------



## philo50

mambosenior said:


> I kiss the audio gear and turn on the wife. Music sounds better after.


----------



## LugBug1

mambosenior said:


> I kiss the audio gear and turn on the wife. Music sounds better after.


 
 LOL! 
  
  
 (wish I could switch off my wife sometimes..)


----------



## ALRAINBOW

You CIEM S for that LOL. they are off audio wise anyway 
Al


----------



## Mike F

So, an update on the wavy screens.
  
 I had a very prompt and helpful reply from Rosmadi to my PM. He explained, having contacted the production manager, that due to the process of hand assembly some HD 800's could have wavy screens and others not. He very kindly offered to organise a replacement pair for me if I wished, but it's not something that bothers me as long as mine aren't the only pair like it, and it seems, from the many responses here, that's the case.
  
 I decided in the end just to keep the pair I have and enjoy them! Here's the graph!


----------



## Eee Pee

sorrodje said:


> Anyone did compare the schiit vali and the DNA Sonett or Sonett 2 ?




I have a Sonett and borrowed a Vali last night and plan to tune in and out over the weekend.


----------



## Sorrodje

eee pee said:


> I have a Sonett and borrowed a Vali last night and plan to tune in and out over the weekend.


 
  
 I'm looking forward to having your impressions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
  
 I'm extensively listening to music with the Vali + REGA DAC + HD800 combo these last days while my reference combo is my REGA+MG Head.


----------



## TwoEars

sorrodje said:


> I'm looking forward to having your impressions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That sounds like the perfect entry level HD800 setup, how are you liking it?


----------



## Sorrodje

twoears said:


> That sounds like the perfect entry level HD800 setup, how are you liking it?


 
  
 I unplugged the MG Head and plugged the Vali last Tuesday evening and I had only Three or Four hours of listening since tuesday and my opinion is not done yet.  Vali & MG Head sound differently so my brain needs to be used to his new environment.  
  
 I really love my MG Head sound but I really feel it lacks too much transparency. With the Vali, transparency is back but at the cost of the brightness. That been said, I can't say the sound become harsher. More transparent, more detailed, less warm but still enjoyable for good recordings. Right now, if I could ask Donald North to tune my Sonett2 for my tastes, i'd ask him to tune it between the MG head and the Vali. The ideal amp for my tastes would keep the transparency and speed from Vali with something of the warmer/mellower tone of the MG Head. That's why I'm looking forward Eee Pee's impressions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I really thought the lack of transparency and the slightly unnatural ( with HD800) warmess came from the REGA DAC. But with the Vali, my REGA sounds much more detailed for sure.  I tried the AudioGD NFB12.1+ Vali combo too & the NFB12.1 is obviously darker than the Rega. with the NFB12.1 I didn't detect the analytical & slightly bright nature of the Vali. The REGA dac is a good dac for HD800 and I thing i'll have to spend time & money to find a real upgrade. I thought to someting like a Metrum Octave MKII maybe but i'm not convinced the upgrade worthes the extra money. I hope i'll have  a chance to try it somewhere.
  
 You realy must take what I say with a *big* grain of salt. I know my brain ( and maybe the vali not burned enough too ? ) is not fully accustomed to the Vali but right now I consider the Vali is a bit overhyped here. For example I remember to have a better result with my Meier Corda Jazz ( very good dynamics & transparency but more neutral with a fuller tone & better bass extension from what I remember) . Ok it's a 400$ Solid state amp but it offers more features ( Crossfeed, gain settings) more power & less shortcomings ( Output impedance , microphonics) and I read many times the Vali is a killer amp under 1000$. So the comparison is not so unfair I guess. 
  
 I really would like to have my Jazz at home to compare directly to this Vali.   
  
 Work in progress . as I said above, my opinion is not definitely made. I need much more time to evaluate dacs or amps.


----------



## Sonido

^ Similar finding for me but between Crack and Vali. I now find my Questyle the best of both, though I can't describe it as warm. I thought I'd miss the warmth but the reason I liked the warmth was more how it smoothed the sound. The Questyle is even smoother than the Crack while having better detailing and blackness than the Vali, and is not bright or thin sounding at all.


----------



## Eee Pee

Here's part of my weekend plans.  And a size reference for ya, Sorrodje.
  
  

  
 Both amps will be fresh to me as I've been using a Mjolnir for quite some time lately.
  
 Here's to a long, slow weekend.  Cheers.


----------



## roguegeek

Here's a quickie for you guys. Is it worth picking up a Vali as a stop gap to my $1.5k solution if I already have the Lyr?


----------



## Sorrodje

@Eee Pee : 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .... thanks for the picture.


----------



## Sorrodje

roguegeek said:


> Here's a quickie for you guys. Is it worth picking up a Vali as a stop gap to my $1.5k solution if I already have the Lyr?


 
  
 With a price of 129$ , I think there's no risk even if you don't like it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  . The Vali definitely worthes its price so you can judge its value by yourself


----------



## Sonido

roguegeek said:


> Here's a quickie for you guys. Is it worth picking up a Vali as a stop gap to my $1.5k solution if I already have the Lyr?



It's great even if only as a reference point that many people have experienced, so you can give your own take on this combo. Don't be surprised if it's worse than Lyr though. Many have said the Vali is great for HD800, and Lyr isn't, but that's probably based on price performance than a straight comparison.


----------



## roguegeek

haha I don't know why I would have expected any other answer from you guys. "Hey, should I spend money?" "Absolutely!" I'm not a hard person to sell.


----------



## MickeyVee

If you've got the Lyr, I'd say no ulness you want to check it out of curiosity.  No/very low noise floor/ringing with the Lyr and from what I recall, the Lyr was better with the HD800.  Don't have them side by side for comparison so going from memory. 
 Quote:


roguegeek said:


> Here's a quickie for you guys. Is it worth picking up a Vali as a stop gap to my $1.5k solution if I already have the Lyr?


----------



## Sonido

roguegeek said:


> haha I don't know why I would have expected any other answer from you guys. "Hey, should I spend money?" "Absolutely!" I'm not a hard person to sell.



When do you plan to get a $1500 amp? Other than for comparison purposes, little point in getting Vali if you're getting the high end amp soon.


----------



## Greed

Sell the Lyr (crappy pairing with the HD800 IMO), grab a Vali (used or new) and use the rest of the money from the Lyr to save for something higher end.


----------



## roguegeek

greed said:


> Sell the Lyr (crappy pairing with the HD800 IMO), grab a Vali (used or new) and use the rest of the money from the Lyr to save for something higher end.


 
 I'm not getting rid of the Lyr. It pairs well with other cans I have and is very decent with the HD 800. There's a place for it on my desk at this point.
  


sonido said:


> When do you plan to get a $1500 amp? Other than for comparison purposes, little point in getting Vali if you're getting the high end amp soon.


 
 Ehh. 2-6 months? Maybe sooner if my damn bonuses get here.


----------



## seb7

If you listen primarily to HD800s then I think the Vali is worth getting, esp. as a temporary amp or for a second system.
  
 Like sorrodje I am using the Vali with the HD800s and the Rega DAC while I wait for the gs-x. I'm impressed how great it sounds with the HD800s, esp. for the price.


----------



## roguegeek

Ehh, I'll grab one for fun.
   
 Quote:


> *AURALiC Taurus MKII*: $1899, ss, single-ended, balanced, RCA+balanced preamp
> *Questyle CMA800R*: $1499, ss, single-ended (2), balanced, RCA preamp
> *Lehmannaudio Linear SE*: ss, single-ended (2), RCA preamp
> *Senn HDVA 600*: $1499, ss, single-ended (2), balanced (2), balanced preamp?
> ...


 
  
 Speaking of my larger amp purchase, I'm focusing on the top two listed above right now, but probably wont make a decision until Innerfidelity's Wall of Fame for amps is up. Hopefully that's soon.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

The hdvd800 and 600 have a balanced and SE. Analog input. So yes . 

Al


----------



## Sonido

roguegeek said:


> Ehh, I'll grab one for fun.
> 
> Speaking of my larger amp purchase, I'm focusing on the top two listed above right now, but probably wont make a decision until Innerfidelity's Wall of Fame for amps is up. Hopefully that's soon.


 

 Get the Questyle if you plan to go all in for the HD800. It's not that great for the other headphones I've tried so far, and sentiments are similar for other owners. I've not heard the other high end amps yet, but to me the HD800 + Questyle is a good 30% better than HD800 + Vali, which is quite significant in at this point in diminishing marginal returns. Other owners of the Questyle have pretty much all said it's better than other amps they've used in the past with the HD800. Of course their opinions, and the recurring theme has been adding the qualifier of _when using with the HD800_. I find it to be a great option that doesn't completely break the bank, but get close to the best sound out of the HD800 for a fraction of comparable sounding amps, with the caveat that it's not going to give that level of sound to other headphones. I guess that's pretty much expected when the design principle was to revolve everything around the HD800.


----------



## faecium

Hello I need to know where to buy Sennheiser HD800 in Rome, Italy, parents are heading there for the holidays and asked for a gift
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Thanks in advance


----------



## magiccabbage

greed said:


> Sell the Lyr (crappy pairing with the HD800 IMO), grab a Vali (used or new) and use the rest of the money from the Lyr to save for something higher end.


 
 Hi greed how is the DNA HD800 combo coming along? It must be well burnt in by now? Any differences so far? What 2A3's have you got in it again?


----------



## MickeyVee

Going to audition the HDVD800/HDVA600 tomorrow morning.  Will bring my MBA and AQ Carbon with me.  In Canada, my choices are limited cause if I import, I'll be nailed with all the extra charges and don't want to go there.  
 I think the shop also has the Bryston BHA-1 but 1) it's too big for my desk and 2) from what I've read, the Sennheiser SQ is somewhere between the BHA-1 and Auralic.  If I can get a good deal on the HDVA600 and I really, really love it, I may go for it.  
 The shop also has the Naim DAC on display so I can directly compare.
 Maybe I should leave my credit cards at home. 
 Cr@p.. sorry for my wallet.  Hope I hate it. It's going to bee a long night.


----------



## Maxvla

I'd still try the BHA-1. I haven't heard the Senn or Auralic, but I liked the BHA-1 when I had it. GS-X was just too good, though.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Some tips. Bring your own music that you know very well . Really good redbook is fine . But if you hAve some hinrez that is reference grDecrecordings that even better. . Next when using the hdvd 600 use there best dac . Why cause now you know how good it can be. The shop needs to quiet find a quiet room. And last and this is important for all of the stuff . It must be on and warm 30 mins . It can be less if it is warm already . The warm is very important all dacs and amps change big time from cold to hot. .most amps and dacs sound thin when cold . Good luck. 

Al


----------



## MickeyVee

I'll give the BHA-1 a go too.  It's cheaper. Like the Senn's cause I can have my RS1i and HD800 plugged in at the same time and switch between the two seamlessly.  In the ToneAudio review, they liked the RS2i with it so the RS1i should be good.  
 Aurilac is out as that would be an import. Hoping that the Bryston or HDVA600 will be end game and they fit the budget.  Bye Bye Tax return. 12 hours and counting.
  
 Quote:


----------



## MickeyVee

Hopefully I'll be able to pair up the Naim DAC-V1 with the HDVA600/HDVD600.  Yes, I'm taking my laptop with my own music and my personal HD800. I'll be there at opening and they're good with all the time I need.  Warm up time should be good. Yes, I should be able to use a separate/quiet room.
  
 Quote:


alrainbow said:


>


----------



## 62ohm

Looking forward for your impression on BHA-1 vs HDVA600 / HDVD800, MickeyVee.


----------



## Sonido

maxvla said:


> I'd still try the BHA-1. I haven't heard the Senn or Auralic, but I liked the BHA-1 when I had it. GS-X was just too good, though.


 

 I should get the chance to hear the GS-X at the Charlotte meet next month since HeadAmp is a vendor there. Will be curious to see how it compares to my Questyle with my HD800. Someone in the other thread said they like the Questyle over the GS-X. Honestly that wouldn't surprise me since they built the CMA800R with one purpose in mind, to sound amazing with the HD800. Then again, I think that was the same purpose Sennheiser had for the HDVA600/HDVD800, and it's reception has been lukewarm.


----------



## Stapsy

I don't think you should limit yourself to what is available in Canada.  There are no extra charges besides shipping and exchange rate if you import from the US.  You are going to have to pay sales taxes regardless of whether you buy in Canada or buy from the US (unless you are doing under the table deals).  If you like the Vali, the BHA-1 or Senn HVDVD 6000 isn't what I would recommend.


----------



## MickeyVee

You guys are killing me..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.. 10% US exchange + taxes + shipping + duties.  Yup, I've been nailed on duties for the US but it's hit and miss.  It cost me over $180 for the Vali 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 before the Canadian dollar went south, never mind big ticket items.  Anyway, the Senn/Bryston (go Canada!) would really have to smoke the Naim for me to purchase. If they don't work out, then I can save a little longer and try the Questyle (read up on it, thanks Sonido).. also on the list is the DNA Sonnett 2. 
 I liked Jude's and Tone Audio's review on the HDVD800 so it's definitely on my audition list. From Jude's review:
_The production Sennheiser HDVD 800 I have here elevates the performance of the HD 800, and inspired me to take the photo accompanying this piece. The results are a sort of combination of the sweetness of some OTL (output transformerless) tube amps I've tried with the HD 800, and the electrostatic-like microscopy the HD 800 is capable of, but without any hint of edginess as a penalty for the detail. It's certainly not the only great companion for the HD 800, but it is a great companion for the HD 800._


----------



## DairyProduce

I did read in a post somewhere that the Questyles are built around the HD800s. Does this solve the treble issue (i.e. no need for Anax's mod?)


----------



## TwoEars

sonido said:


> I should get the chance to hear the GS-X at the Charlotte meet next month since HeadAmp is a vendor there. Will be curious to see how it compares to my Questyle with my HD800. Someone in the other thread said they like the Questyle over the GS-X. Honestly that wouldn't surprise me since they built the CMA800R with one purpose in mind, to sound amazing with the HD800. Then again, I think that was the same purpose Sennheiser had for the HDVA600/HDVD800, and it's reception has been lukewarm.


 
  
 Throw the mjolnir/bryston into the mix as well if you can find them.
  
 The problem I guess is listening to them throw the same source and recording.


----------



## dleblanc343

dairyproduce said:


> I did read in a post somewhere that the Questyles are built around the HD800s. Does this solve the treble issue (i.e. no need for Anax's mod?)



I'll soon find out. The amp was directly named after the HD800, so I'm being optimistic about its synergy


----------



## Sonido

dairyproduce said:


> I did read in a post somewhere that the Questyles are built around the HD800s. Does this solve the treble issue (i.e. no need for Anax's mod?)


 

 I believe so though I'm never tried Anax mod. The Questyle makes the HD800 very smooth.


----------



## 62ohm

sonido said:


> I believe so though I'm never tried Anax mod. The Questyle makes the HD800 very smooth.


 
  
 Sonido, have you heard the HDVA600 / HDVD800 before? If so, how do you think they compare against the Questyle in driving HD800?


----------



## Sonido

62ohm said:


> Sonido, have you heard the HDVA600 / HDVD800 before? If so, how do you think they compare against the Questyle in driving HD800?


 
 Have not I'm afraid. Really the only amp everyone seems to have heard on here that I can give a comparison to is the Vali, which sounds jagged and rough in comparison to the Questyle. Hopefully, after the meet I'll have more reference points.


----------



## eantala

After 2 months of ownership the hd800 have really hit all the right buttons with me just sounding right, smooth and transparent with the resolution I always wanted.
 IME they don't sound bright, hard or sibilant whatsoever.   Im definitely done buying headphones (unless winning the lottery is in my future).
  
 even on a mjolnir/gungnir (usb gen 2) where schiit stack is suppose to be close to end game I prefer hd800 over the lcd2.2 by a good margin. 
 I've been comparing all evening.  I do a good amount of listening to Jazz/classical but this evening listening to a lot of 80's pop like Depeche Mode, Michael Jackson, Lionel Ritchie and the Police and I still prefer the hd800.  my lcd2.2 which I loved just sound muffled, distant and dull in comparison to me now.
  
 I think I'll be parting with the lcd2.2, he500 and hd650 which I always thought I'd hang on to but they just don't get any use at all.  I think I'll put it towards a Ragnarok when it comes out.  I need a speaker amp as my integrated died, this will kill 2 birds with one stone.


----------



## Sonido

dleblanc343 said:


> I'll soon find out. The amp was directly named after the HD800, so I'm being optimistic about its synergy


 
 Can't wait til Sunday! You've heard more amps for the HD800, so we'll hear a more well-referenced take on this amp.


----------



## DairyProduce

Can't wait till these comparisons come out!


----------



## roguegeek

sonido said:


> Get the Questyle if you plan to go all in for the HD800. It's not that great for the other headphones I've tried so far, and sentiments are similar for other owners. I've not heard the other high end amps yet, but to me the HD800 + Questyle is a good 30% better than HD800 + Vali, which is quite significant in at this point in diminishing marginal returns. Other owners of the Questyle have pretty much all said it's better than other amps they've used in the past with the HD800. Of course their opinions, and the recurring theme has been adding the qualifier of _when using with the HD800_. I find it to be a great option that doesn't completely break the bank, but get close to the best sound out of the HD800 for a fraction of comparable sounding amps, with the caveat that it's not going to give that level of sound to other headphones. I guess that's pretty much expected when the design principle was to revolve everything around the HD800.




With the feedback I have read from you and others, there's no doubt the CMA800R is way up there on the list of amps to consider. I just can't ignore all of that positive feedback about the Taurus MkII either.


----------



## LugBug1

eantala said:


> After 2 months of ownership the hd800 have really hit all the right buttons with me just sounding right, smooth and transparent with the resolution I always wanted.
> IME they don't sound bright, hard or sibilant whatsoever.   Im definitely done buying headphones (unless winning the lottery is in my future).
> 
> even on a mjolnir/gungnir (usb gen 2) where schiit stack is suppose to be close to end game I prefer hd800 over the lcd2.2 by a good margin.
> ...


 
 Great stuff  Yeah I parted with the same headphones when I got my HD800. One thing I would say however, although the HD800 is far superior than all three of those, over time and once you get over the new toy syndrome it can be nice to have an alternative sound to compliment the HD800's. Especially if like me you have some older favourite Jazz or classical recordings that aren't the best quality. The Audeze and 650's are great for cushioning older harsh recordings for e.g.


----------



## MickeyVee

No offence to the Vali, even though it's a great $ value, it will probably sound rough next to most amps that pair well with the HD800.  It really does sound rough next to the Naim and I would probably consider the Naim middle of the road for the HD800.  From memory, I think it sounded rough compared to the WA7.
  
 Quote:


sonido said:


> Have not I'm afraid. Really the only amp everyone seems to have heard on here that I can give a comparison to is the Vali, which sounds jagged and rough in comparison to the Questyle. Hopefully, after the meet I'll have more reference points.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

The WA7 sounds smooth with any he's daphne or IEM. I tried with it. 

Al


----------



## elvergun

eantala said:


> After 2 months of ownership the hd800 have really hit all the right buttons with me just sounding right, smooth and transparent with the resolution I always wanted.
> IME they don't sound bright, hard or sibilant whatsoever.   Im definitely done buying headphones (unless winning the lottery is in my future).
> 
> I think I'll be parting with the lcd2.2, he500 and hd650 which I always thought I'd hang on to but they just don't get any use at all.  I think I'll put it towards a Ragnarok when it comes out.  I need a speaker amp as my integrated died, this will kill 2 birds with one stone.


 
  
 Ha...I love my headphones too much to stop listening to them.  I'm listening to my PX200 right now, with my HD800 and T5p only 3 feet away.  I like to change it up a little bit...and it makes me appreciate the HD800 even more when I put it on.


----------



## Blasyrkh

eantala said:


> IME they don't sound bright, hard or sibilant whatsoever.   Im definitely done buying headphones (unless winning the lottery is in my future).


 
  
 in fact that's exactly what i think about them, not bright or sibilant or harsh AT ALL. my he500 are surely slightly harsher.
  
 and I swear, old models, or at least the ones I heard, were all those 3 things


----------



## Aaron1006

lugbug1 said:


> I'd recommend the Beresford Bushmaster. It is the best budget dac I've heard and the good in-built headphone amp will give you a nice alternative to the Vali.


 
 After some more research on your suggestion I realized that the little DAC I'm using atm can be used as a USB to optical converter. So needless to say after reading nothing but positive comments about it, I'm in for one Beresford Bushmaster MKII. Thanks for the suggestion .


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Off topic but read. 
Using a spidif to input your DAC is fine 
But the cable must be good for the purpose 
And you are far better off using a already made one PC adaptor 
I will post what I mean later here. 
The pint is we use a regular coax cable 
And the imp of the cable must be 75. Ohm 
And most all of them are not. 
Just a heads up. 

Al


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> Off topic but read.
> Using a spidif to input your DAC is fine
> But the cable must be good for the purpose
> And you are far better off using a already made one PC adaptor
> ...


 
 Please do explain this about the cable - I am very interested


----------



## LugBug1

aaron1006 said:


> After some more research on your suggestion I realized that the little DAC I'm using atm can be used as a USB to optical converter. So needless to say after reading nothing but positive comments about it, I'm in for one Beresford Bushmaster MKII. Thanks for the suggestion .


 
 Thats good news buddy, I use a USB to optical/spdif converter with mine. In fact I always use these over direct usb. 
  


alrainbow said:


> Off topic but read.
> Using a spidif to input your DAC is fine
> But the cable must be good for the purpose
> And you are far better off using a already made one PC adaptor
> ...


 
 I think he's going to use optical anyways bud.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yes I think so. , but this can be used for others .

Instead of a ready made cable use these , the imp is matching as in cables it's most likely not. 

Al


----------



## Sonido

roguegeek said:


> With the feedback I have read from you and others, there's no doubt the CMA800R is way up there on the list of amps to consider. I just can't ignore all of that positive feedback about the Taurus MkII either.





I'm sure you've read the direct in-depth comparison made by project86?



> AURALiC Taurus mkII vs. Questyle CMA800
> 
> This is a tough one because the Taurus mkII is probably the best solid state amp I've ever heard thus far. It costs a few hundred dollars more than the CMA800, but has more features such as preamp functionality, balanced headphone output, and a lot more power. Both are phenomenally well built and very attractive. I went back and forth many times and the differences between these two are subtle - very much more difficult to spot than in the prior amp comparisons. Both are extremely resolving, neutral, well extended on both ends, and very open sounding. After much comparison I believe I found some small differences, though again these are way more alike than they are different.
> [COLOR=3B3B3B] [/COLOR]
> ...




Once again, note that qualifier. Also note he's comparing with the CMA800, not CMA800*R*, the newer model with balanced output, (improved sound maybe?).


----------



## MickeyVee

Well guys & gals, after 5+ hours of driving and auditioning, I ended up with something that I never thought I wound have.  First, let me say that I not a neutral kind of guy and the ultimate of transparency and neutrality is not necessarily for me.
  
 I auditioned the Bryston BHA-1, Sennheiser HDVD800 and Naim DAC-V1 in pretty much every configuration.  After 2 1/2 hours, I came to the following conclusion [note this only applies to me - YMMV]

I found the Bryston BHA-1 way too sharp and extended in the high end for me. Not in a bad way but enough to know that I would be really unhappy with it in the long term.  Mids and lows were sweet but I did not get much of a feeling of soundstage, maybe because the highs were a bother.  Went back to it 2 other times in the session and found the same thing.
I really, really wanted to like the HDVD800 but to be honest, I had a hard time telling the difference between it and the Naim.  I spent a lot of time going back and forth between the Naim alone, the Senn alone and the Naim as a DAC for the Senn.  If I had to do a blind test, I probably couldn't tell the difference between the setups other than the Senn may have had a touch more air/soundstage and maybe a touch richer in the mids.  If I was starting from scratch and didn't have the Naim, it would be a toss up with the HDVD800 with points going to the Naim with Mac integration and the remote and points going to the Senn with multiple outputs.
 I thanked my sales guy who has served me well for almost 20 years and went out empty handed.
  
 As I was about to go home, I recall seeing that the Headfone Shop in Toronto started carrying Woo, specifically the WA6 and WA7.  Thought I'd give the WA7 another listen so headed north. The setup this time was with the foster HPA8 as the DAC feeding the WA6 and WA7.  Gave everything about 1/2 an hour to warm up as I listened and came to the following conclusions.

Yup, did the right thing selling my original WA7.  Sounded a bit thin and lifeless.  Tried it a couple more times with various songs and came to the same conclusion.
Only spent a few minutes with the HD800 plugged into the Fostex but long enough to realize that I was dealing with the Naim/Senn scenario again.  Tried it a coupe of more times during the audition.  Really, really nice but I wanted something different.
Now, the WA6..  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 This is different, not as clean and neutral as everything else, less deep bass extension, good highs with mid bass and mids to die for. Everything from Patricia Barber, Dire Straits to Deadmou5 to Enigma sounded richer and more engaging.  Holy cr@p, everything I've read about the WA6 says no, not bad but nowhere near the ultimate, or even middle of the road for the HD800.  Back and forth between the units, step out for a coffee, come back and the same thing.  Kick butt mid-bass. Could be more precise and cleaner but it's not shy! I really like the WA6! Fun, engaging, forgiving of poorer recordings while providing them some life in the mid-bass and mid-range. Say it isn't so.  OK, read that it really doesn't have enough power to drive the HD800 well.  What? Cant get this thing past 1 o'clock without the ears bleeding and very comfortable at 11 o'clock. Out again for a think and back in with the credit card.  Chinese rectifier, really shouldn't sound this good. Sophia Princess on order.
  
 If I want neutrality and transparency, the HD800 / Naim DAC-V1 is it.  If I want fun and engaging giving ups a little transparency sub-bass and soundstage, it's the Woo. Oh yes, the WA6 is a really nice match with the RS1i.  Vali on steroids without the ringing and slight roughness. It's good to have choices/variety.


----------



## punit

The WA6 with USAF 596 + TS 6SN7 is pretty nice with HD 800. The Sophia Princess is not bad but USAF 596 is better, more clarity & fine balance between top end extension & smoothness.
  
 Also what driver tubes are you using, the stock is not that great. I would suggest get 6FD7 or buy the 6SN7 adapters from Woo & use good 6SN7 tubes.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

If anyone flames you shame on them. I feel your opinions were well versed 
And coherent. As for conclusions. I am a big fan of the hdvd 
Amp section. So if you found an amp that sounds neutral an detailed like it 
And have good. And your remarks about the W7 
Is correct to my ears 
Al


----------



## roguegeek

sonido said:


> I'm sure you've read the direct in-depth comparison made by project86?


 
 I have not. Real great read there. The one thing I do keep reading with the CMA800R is it's great with the HD 800 and just ok with everything else where as the Taurus MkII is great with the HD800 and also great with a lot more popular high-end cans. It's something I need to take into account because I don't see my collection getting any smaller. Although it does sound like the Questyle is better with the HD 800, everything I've read on the AURALiC makes it sound like if there is a difference in terms of quality, it's insignificant. Decisions, decisions.
  
 I'd really like to see an Innerfidelity review on the CMA800R.


----------



## TwoEars

It's all about enjoying the music, if the WA6 is your thing just go for it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Funnily enough I remember Tyll saying something similar in a video I think it was. It was something along the lines of "after a lifetime of chasing good audio reproduction I'll happily take all the harmonic distortion this little thing can dish out". I think he was speaking about the wa3.
  
 Thanks for a great write-up, hope you had a fun day!


----------



## Sonido

roguegeek said:


> I'd really like to see an Innerfidelity review on the CMA800R.



Well project86 is a writer for innerfidelity.
http://www.innerfidelity.com/writer/17777


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I agree with his reviews , as it's all connector anyway but I like his very much. 

Al


----------



## Sorrodje

mickeyvee said:


> Let the flaming begin!


 
  
  
 What's the problem with WA6 ? why would people flame you ?


----------



## Sonido

The Questyle is like a Chevy Camaro SS. To get a BMW or Mercedes of the same horsepower, you're going to have to spend 2-3 times the cost of the Camaro. But of course the cheaper luxury cars still beat the Camaro in comfort and handling. But if horsepower is all you care about, then the Camaro is a better option for the price. The HD800 is like horsepower in this metaphor.


----------



## MickeyVee

Was kind of kidding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  WA6 is not discussed very much here. Deleted.  Anyway, been glued to the new setup, it's smoothing out and I'm really enjoying it!
  
 Quote:


sorrodje said:


> What's the problem with WA6 ? why would people flame you ?


----------



## Maxvla

mickeyvee said:


> I auditioned the Bryston BHA-1, Sennheiser HDVD800 and Naim DAC-V1 in pretty much every configuration.  After 2 1/2 hours, I came to the following conclusion [note this only applies to me - YMMV]
> 
> I found the Bryston BHA-1 way too sharp and extended in the high end for me. Not in a bad way but enough to know that I would be really unhappy with it in the long term.  Mids and lows were sweet but I did not get much of a feeling of soundstage, maybe because the highs were a bother.  Went back to it 2 other times in the session and found the same thing.
> I really, really wanted to like the HDVD800 but to be honest, I had a hard time telling the difference between it and the Naim.  I spent a lot of time going back and forth between the Naim alone, the Senn alone and the Naim as a DAC for the Senn.  If I had to do a blind test, I probably couldn't tell the difference between the setups other than the Senn may have had a touch more air/soundstage and maybe a touch richer in the mids.  If I was starting from scratch and didn't have the Naim, it would be a toss up with the HDVD800 with points going to the Naim with Mac integration and the remote and points going to the Senn with multiple outputs.
> ...



Sounds like you and I hear things similarly but have vastly different priorities. I owned the WA6 w/Sophia because I was full IEM mode and it was a high quality but zero noise floor amp. After getting HD800s I couldn't wait for my preorder BHA-1 to come in, the WA6 was so boring. When it did come in, it was like I was just now hearing the HD800s for the first time. Highly detailed and much more interesting. The soundstage size difference alone is massive, and I'm not exaggerating. I think the mids of the WA6 is good, but only because the rest is lackluster, so that you notice the mids more. I think the WA6 is an alright amp, but it is polar opposite of a good match for HD800s. All of the HD800s strengths are countered by the WA6 and the strengths of the WA6 is countered by the HD800.


----------



## 62ohm

mickeyvee said:


> Well guys & gals, after 5+ hours of driving and auditioning, I ended up with something that I never thought I wound have.  First, let me say that I not a neutral kind of guy and the ultimate of transparency and neutrality is not necessarily for me.
> 
> I auditioned the Bryston BHA-1, Sennheiser HDVD800 and Naim DAC-V1 in pretty much every configuration.  After 2 1/2 hours, I came to the following conclusion [note this only applies to me - YMMV]
> 
> ...


 
  
 Interesting, I actually preferred the WA3 over WA6 for HD800 (weird, right?). I used to have a plan to get the WA2, then it changed to HDVD800 / BHA-1. After reading your post here, I think my plan changed back to WA2 again..


----------



## ALRAINBOW

We all have plans in life and in buying our heafi stuff Enjoy what ever you buy. And if you find something you like better sell the old and welcome the new .

Al


----------



## roguegeek

sonido said:


> The Questyle is like a Chevy Camaro SS. To get a BMW or Mercedes of the same horsepower, you're going to have to spend 2-3 times the cost of the Camaro. But of course the cheaper luxury cars still beat the Camaro in comfort and handling. But if horsepower is all you care about, then the Camaro is a better option for the price. The HD800 is like horsepower in this metaphor.


 
 You're a man after my heart. I've owned three Camaros and am looking for a '68 SS right now.


----------



## Sonido

roguegeek said:


> You're a man after my heart. I've owned three Camaros and am looking for a '68 SS right now.


 

 I drive a 2012 Camaro.


----------



## Frank I

alrainbow said:


> We all have plans in life and in buying our heafi stuff Enjoy what ever you buy. And if you find something you like better sell the old and welcome the new .
> 
> Al


 
 or keep it all


----------



## ALRAINBOW

That is a way too. Lmao. 

Al


----------



## MickeyVee

I've already got the [on the warn side] of neutral'ish amp with the detail and soundstage with the Naim DAC-V1. I did find the Bryston really good but the extended highs would have killed me. Same story but opposite sides of the spectrum and now I own both.  Maybe it's my older ears but I'm finding the WA6 more engaging with older recordings. Probably why I also like the RS1i. A little grunge works for me   Like I said in my intro, ultimate transparency and neutrality is not the top priority for me. Maybe it's just the Naim/Woo combo that works for me.  Too many variables in this game.
  
 Quote:


maxvla said:


>


 
  
  
 Don't let my experience/preferences sway you!  I would always suggest an audition. Like I said, I really, really liked the HDVD800 but it was too close to call with the Naim so it didn't make sense.  If I had one of my older setups before the Naim, I would have jumped on the HDVD800.  I was considering the WA22 because of the power and versatility but price, yada, yada would put it out of my reach. The WA22 may still be my end game down the road. I really good for now though.
  Quote:


62ohm said:


>


----------



## MickeyVee

I started with an 1984 Camaro then upgraded in 1986 with a T-bar roof which I drove for 10 years.  Would love to get one of the new ones!
 Quote:


sonido said:


> I drive a 2012 Camaro.


----------



## Sonido

mickeyvee said:


>


 

 Get the new Z28.


----------



## MickeyVee

My brother got the new Z28 when it first came out.. the same one as in Transformers. Sweet ride! When he was a teenager, he took my Camaro on dates but won't loan me his new one for a day. Bugger! Now I need to get the new Corvette Stingray!  Ooops, OT.
 Quote:


sonido said:


> Get the new Z28.


----------



## preproman

sonido said:


> I should get the chance to hear the GS-X at the Charlotte meet next month since HeadAmp is a vendor there. Will be curious to see how it compares to my Questyle with my HD800. Someone in the other thread said they like the Questyle over the GS-X. Honestly that wouldn't surprise me since they built the CMA800R with one purpose in mind, to sound amazing with the HD800. Then again, I think that was the same purpose Sennheiser had for the HDVA600/HDVD800, and it's reception has been lukewarm.


 
 If your talking about this amp:  http://www.amazon.com/Questyle-CMA800R-Current-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00GM7F8E8  I got an od chance to hear it a week or so ago.  On a pure humble as I never really knew anything about the amp.  
  
 In short.  It rocks with the HE-500s / not so much with the HD800s IMO.  Although it did sound pretty good, It lacks the transparency and the full bottom end of the GS-X mk2.  I still have not heard any of the Sennheiser amps so I can't make any comments.  
  
 The GS-X mk2 is still the best SS amp I've heard with the HD800.
  
 In order of preference and IMO..
  
 GS-X mk2 / F1J
 BHA-1
 4 Channel Beta 22
 GS-1
 Mojo
 I would rank that CMA800R somewhere with my M^3


----------



## Sonido

preproman said:


> If your talking about this amp:  http://www.amazon.com/Questyle-CMA800R-Current-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00GM7F8E8  I got an od chance to hear it a week or so ago.  On a pure humble as I never really knew anything about the amp.
> 
> In short.  It rocks with the HE-500s / not so much with the HD800s IMO.  Although it did sound pretty good, It lacks the transparency and the full bottom end of the GS-X mk2.  I still have not heard any of the Sennheiser amps so I can't make any comments.
> 
> ...


 

 Interesting. I tried it with the HE-500 as well, and it found it bright and pretty much agree with dleblanc343's assessment on the pairing. I do agree the the pairing with the HD800 doesn't have that sense of bass impact or tactility I get from my HD800 when paired with my Bottlehead Quickie + Crack, and far from what you get with the HE-500 driven by a speaker amp like the Emotiva miniX. Nor does the Questyle give that electrostatic airy treble I've heard with the ESP950. I'd say even the Vali gives some brief glimpses of that airy treble with the HD800. However, what won me over the Questyle and HD800 was the ultra smoothness and intimacy. No sense of harshness at all. Those so-called treble problems and sibilance are pretty much non-existent.


----------



## preproman

Yeah and for me the overly smooth character of that amp was a bit to much for me.  I didn't get any of the high frequency extension and dynamic punch I like on the GS-X mk2 / HD800 combo.  It seemed to blunt some of the attacks like the B22.  Also I wouldn't call the mids recessed at all on that amp, just a bit lean compared to the GS-X mk2. 
  
 The soundstage was a little narrow compare to the GS-X mk2.  Not by much, and the Depth was a bit shallow in comparisons - again, not by much.  All in all it's a solid amp, but IMO not in the same class as the GS-X mk2..


----------



## Sonido

preproman said:


> Yeah and for me the overly smooth character of that amp was a bit to much for me.  I didn't get any of the high frequency extension and dynamic punch I like on the GS-X mk2 / HD800 combo.  It seemed to blunt some of the attacks like the B22.  Also I wouldn't call the mids recessed at all on that amp, just a bit lean compared to the GS-X mk2.
> 
> The soundstage was a little narrow compare to the GS-X mk2.  Not by much, and the Depth was a bit shallow in comparisons - again, not by much.  All in all it's a solid amp, but IMO not in the same class as the GS-X mk2..


 

 Ah that explains it. I like the smoothness, but that's a subjective thing. I still remember my first immediate impression when I heard the HD800 through the Questyle, and it was the intimacy and smoothness of the vocals, something I've never heard before. Only after that did the improvements in details hit me. Once again I haven't heard the GS-X, so I can't compare. I'll get to next month, and it's likely I would like the pairing with the HD800 as well.


----------



## kaesar94

sonido said:


> Ah that explains it. I like the smoothness, but that's a subjective thing. I still remember my first immediate impression when I heard the HD800 through the Questyle, and it was the intimacy and smoothness of the vocals, something I've never heard before. Only after that did the improvements in details hit me. Once again I haven't heard the GS-X, so I can't compare. I'll get to next month, and it's likely I would like the pairing with the HD800 as well.




With preproman, there is the first negative comment around the Questyle with the HD800. It's a very sad moment for me :mad: :mad: :mad:


----------



## Sonido

kaesar94 said:


> With preproman, there is the first negative comment around the Questyle with the HD800. It's a very sad moment for me


 
  
 I'm waiting on dleblanc343's take on this amp paired with HD800 sometime today hopefully. I know there were 40-50 units sold from a certain website that sells audiophile gear, and most people there know about head-fi. So far not a single for sale listing on the trade forums here FWIW. There's also the Questyle Q192 amp/DAC combo that sells for $650, and it uses the same current amplification technology. Some people who has heard both the Q192 and the CMA800R say the Q192 is the baby CMA800R and performs quite well with the HD800 as well. Perhaps a cheaper option for some.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Keep this in mind as we do argue with each other on smAll details and other issues . But overall I a have come to trust many people here and and there views. I never mean to be an end all guy , but I know I do come across as one at times . But I still value the ones I trust . And the one you mentioned is one of them. Also I think the majority of people who buy amps really do not know just what the full potential of the headphones they just bought. And this is greatly Amplified with a world class headphone lie a HD800 or HE 6. These headphones are capable of fantastic realism when given the fight combinations. 

Maybe I am just added to the mystery but that is just my intention read and rad and read . And listen while you do as this is how we learn .

Al


----------



## twsmith

kaesar94 said:


> With preproman, there is the first negative comment around the Questyle with the HD800. It's a very sad moment for me


 
 I would not take a single negative comment about the CMA800R to heart too strongly, especially in view of the generally very positive comments about this amp that have appeared to date.  Everyone is entitled their opinion, of course, but as a previous owner of a GS-X (MkI version), I would argue that the overall sound signature of both amps is likely to be much closer than further apart.  I'm not saying they are identical in SQ but I would be hesitant to say one is necessarily better.  I have listened carefully to a very wide range of music and source types including hi-res PCM and DSD (using an Invicta dac) with my own CMA800R and have not heard any of the apparent "deficiencies" described in comparison with the GS-X (narrower and less deep soundstage, less bass punch, less transparency, too smooth, etc).  Other variables that could determine perceived differences also need to be considered as well -- for example is the GS-X Mk2 in balanced mode being compared to a the Questyle in single ended mode?   Some people feel that balanced slightly improves sound staging and bass response in the HD800s.  The bottom line is that we all need to remember that it is good to have a variety of different opinions, both positive and negative -- if everyone actually thought a particularly amp, dac, etc were absolutely perfect, I would be a little suspicious myself.


----------



## kaesar94

twsmith said:


> I would not take a single negative comment about the CMA800R to heart too strongly, especially in view of the generally very positive comments about this amp that have appeared to date.  Everyone is entitled their opinion, of course, but as a previous owner of a GS-X (MkI version), I would argue that the overall sound signature of both amps is likely to be much closer than further apart.  I'm not saying they are identical in SQ but I would be hesitant to say one is necessarily better.  I have listened carefully to a very wide range of music and source types including hi-res PCM and DSD (using an Invicta dac) with my own CMA800R and have not heard any of the apparent "deficiencies" described in comparison with the GS-X (narrower and less deep soundstage, less bass punch, less transparency, too smooth, etc).  Other variables that could determine perceived differences also need to be considered as well -- for example is the GS-X Mk2 in balanced mode being compared to a the Questyle in single ended mode?   Some people feel that balanced slightly improves sound staging and bass response in the HD800s.  The bottom line is that we all need to remember that it is good to have a variety of different opinions, both positive and negative -- if everyone actually thought a particularly amp, dac, etc were absolutely perfect, I would be a little suspicious myself.







preproman said:


> If your talking about this amp:  http://www.amazon.com/Questyle-CMA800R-Current-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00GM7F8E8  I got an od chance to hear it a week or so ago.  On a pure humble as I never really knew anything about the amp.
> 
> In short.  It rocks with the HE-500s / not so much with the HD800s IMO.  Although it did sound pretty good, It lacks the transparency and the full bottom end of the GS-X mk2.  I still have not heard any of the Sennheiser amps so I can't make any comments.
> 
> ...




Was the HD800 connected to the HeadAmp Gs-x in balanced mode?


----------



## twsmith

kaesar94 said:


> Was the HD800 connected to the HeadAmp Gs-x in balanced mode?


 
 Referring to my own experience with the Mk1 version -- yes I did use my HD800s in balanced mode, but not the Questyle (I only have one).  If my auditory memory serves me correctly, I would say both amps are nearly equivalent, with perhaps my own preference leaning toward the Questyle.  Incidentally both amps were paired with my Invicta dac.


----------



## Greed

Just want to point out that the GS-X mk1 and mk2 are quite a bit different in SQ. There is no comparison, the mk2 is a much better amp IMO.


----------



## kaesar94

twsmith said:


> Referring to my own experience with the Mk1 version -- yes I did use my HD800s in balanced mode, but not the Questyle (I only have one).  If my auditory memory serves me correctly, I would say both amps are nearly equivalent, with perhaps my own preference leaning toward the Questyle.  Incidentally both amps were paired with my Invicta dac.


 
  


greed said:


> Just want to point out that the GS-X mk1 and mk2 are quite a bit different in SQ. There is no comparison, the mk2 is a much better amp IMO.


 
  
 OOOOOOHHHHH ok, now it makes sense. While it's quite obvious that the MKII (4000$) can be slightly better of the CMA800R (1500$), it's pretty interesting to say that the Questyle can compete head on with much expensive amplifiers like the GS-X MKI, also considering that the HeadAmp was used in balanced mode. At this point i have to think that the CMA800R can be THE end-game solution for HD800 under 2 - 2.5k$.
  
 Am i wrong?


----------



## Greed

kaesar94 said:


> OOOOOOHHHHH ok, now it makes sense. While it's quite obvious that the MKII (4000$) can be slightly better of the CMA800R (1500$), it's pretty interesting to say that the Questyle can compete head on with much expensive amplifiers like the GS-X MKI, also considering that the HeadAmp was used in balanced mode. At this point i have to think that the CMA800R can be THE end-game solution for HD800 under 2 - 2.5k$.
> 
> Am i wrong?


 
  
 Very much so, but I'd want to hear the Questyle first before saying it competes.


----------



## seb7

kaesar94 said:


> OOOOOOHHHHH ok, now it makes sense. While it's quite obvious that the MKII (4000$) can be slightly better of the CMA800R (1500$), it's pretty interesting to say that the Questyle can compete head on with much expensive amplifiers like the GS-X MKI, also considering that the HeadAmp was used in balanced mode. At this point i have to think that the CMA800R can be THE end-game solution for HD800 under 2 - 2.5k$.
> 
> Am i wrong?


 
  
 Well, except the gs-x mk2 is not $4000..more like $2800-3000


----------



## magiccabbage

kaesar94 said:


> OOOOOOHHHHH ok, now it makes sense. While it's quite obvious that the MKII (4000$) can be slightly better of the CMA800R (1500$), it's pretty interesting to say that the Questyle can compete head on with much expensive amplifiers like the GS-X MKI, also considering that the HeadAmp was used in balanced mode. At this point i have to think that the CMA800R can be THE end-game solution for HD800 under 2 - 2.5k$.
> 
> Am i wrong?


 
 mk2 is not 4000 - did they up the price?


----------



## kaesar94

magiccabbage said:


> mk2 is not 4000 - did they up the price?
> [/quote
> 
> Ups...sorry for the mistake.....maybe 4000$ for the DACT version including GST.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

With the better volume control it is 750 in 4 payments . So that is really close to 4000. To me. 

Al


----------



## Greed

alrainbow said:


> With the better volume control it is 750 in 4 payments . So that is really close to 4000. To me.
> 
> Al


 
  
 Let do some math guys:
  
 $750 + $750 + $750 + $750 = $3000 / $750 x 4 = $3000
  
 Stay in school


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yea I am stupid sorry. And school was over about 35 years ago. What I need is glasses and a calculator. lol. 

I wonder why the Amp has an output of 30 volts in bal but only 1 watt. To bad it might of been a good one for the HE6 . 

Al


----------



## Maxvla

Which amp?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

The new one mk2


----------



## Maxvla

The specs on the site are for the mk1, the mk2 has no issues driving HE-6.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Ok then need to fi sit. 
I know the price said for mk2 . 

Al


----------



## pearljam50000

Is the K812 better?


----------



## Sonido

pearljam50000 said:


> Is the K812 better?


 
 Not so far for me. Probably need a better amp for it though.


----------



## dleblanc343

Initial impressions of the CMA800R coming in a half hour ish. Taking pictures and retrying out the amp dac-less to finish up initial thoughts.


----------



## Sonido

dleblanc343 said:


> Initial impressions of the CMA800R coming in a half hour ish. Taking pictures and retrying out the amp dac-less to finish up initial thoughts.


----------



## dleblanc343

Well here are my initial imressions after ~30 hours of burn-in with the CMA800R. It's the best SS amp I've heard with the HD800's; the most effortless and transparent yet. But I'm kind of disappointed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I was expecting it to be absolutely incredible, but it's definitely not perfect for me. I think it's safe for me to say no SS amp will ever do it for me with my current inventory for the HD800; probably not even the GSX MKII.
  
 So here's what I used: Asus N56vj with Jriver 19, Audioquest Diamond USB, audioquest NRG-1000 power cable, NAD M51 w/ firmware 1.39, DHC nucleotide xlr interconnects, audioquest victoria RCA interconnects (sounded better with this vs balanced with the DHC), Questyle CMA800R, HD800 w/ Q-cable as well as user @PretentiousFood's custom built SPUD amp to A/B with the CMA800 while my McIntosh is gone. 
  
 Well, here goes. When I got the CMA800R in at work for testing, I noticed it sounded very lively and made poor headphones like the HD650 sound so much more transparent. After trying it with the HE500 and Alpha Dogs, I kind of diagnosed the amp as neutral with maybe slight brightness.
  
 Now that the amp has burned in for almost two days straight at home, and is being fed much better, I am ready to give a first take on it (after 4 hours of listening to my test playlist). It is indeed very impressive on a technical level, it is the most transparent amp I've heard so far, and tonally gets everything very well. The amp brings a lot of slam and prat to the HD800's, coherent staging without exaggeration of width (sounds more closed in than expected, which is good). I understand the smoothness people speak of, it simply sounds like _the amp is a windowless frame in front of the HD800. _It's so transparent that it sounds natural in a way. But that's where unfortunately, as good as it is, for me it's not the greatest all-arounder/ musically enjoyable amp for the HD800. Everything sounds really good, exceptional recordings sound exceptionally better.
  
 Problem is? Well, the HD800's are HD800's. The treble spike and quantity of highs is untouched, making the highs fully resolved, and sharp sometimes; something I've managed to avoid with my main amp (which is not as transparent or resolving, but more enjoyable). I do not have the Anax mod on my HD800's. I've compared the HD800/ Questyle with the dac and straight from my laptop to compare the over all FR. Running with the DAC, it sounds a tad smoother, so I confirm the NAD M51 is relatively linear and well-rounded, as is the Questyle. So I've got what I'd call relatively neutral dac, amp, and a headphone which is neutral bright. Mashed up together what do I hear? Uber resolution and transparency, everything sounds scarily neutral; except for the HD800's brightness standing out. Bass through mids everything sounds right, the HD800 have richness and body to them which is uncharacteristic of the headphone for most people with SS amps. Everything is conveyed as it should be in my opinion, and well, the HD800's just so happen to have a bit more treble than neutral, making everything sound just a bit too bright on occasion.
  
 I've been through the mjolnir, the phonitor and the BHA-1. Everything listed is exceptionally bad when compared to the CMA800R, so I'm impressed in that regard. This is the best SS I've heard yet, and possibly the best I ever will as I don't think SS is the way to go for me. Is this one of the better amps for the HD800? Yes, if you want reference-like sound, which there is a high probability if you own this headphone.  And yes if you absolutely do not want tubes. If you want to get rid of the edginess, you absolutely need a very warm dac or maybe the Anax mod can do wonders, who knows. The NAD M51 is according to many, either slightly warm and analog or neutral/forward; to me it's just in between this, it's pretty darn natural. I know that if I used, for example: the BDA-2, CMA800R and non-anax HD800, I would have my ears shredded by hi-hats.
  
*So, I love the CMA800R. I love its build, its size, its looks, and especially its sound!* I do not love it with the HD800 though. I like it very very much, but I can't see myself living with this unless I changed dacs (which is out of the question). I am, over all, very impressed with the amp, even though it may not seem that way; but I was not exceedingly impressed either.
  
 I'm a detail freak, I love resolution, and I love well extended highs; but I am sensitive to uneven treble or harshness/ grain. The HD800 is the headphone for me, but the sharpness must be kept under control just a tad. My system (with questyle) lets it do its thing without holding it back, the highs just ooze out without effort. It is fatiguing after a while. Maybe I should do the Anax mod, but I'm not keen on it.
  
 The Questyle CMA800R is the amp the extracts the most out of the HD800's that I've tried. It's eerily similar to the Stax 009 + Woo WES, but sounds better and much cheaper. It's just too much though.
  
 Tomorrow night, I'll have my McIntosh back, and will take time to try the HE6 with the Questyle as well. I'm firm on my observations, but maybe after comparing the CMA800R to the wonderfully musical McIntosh I will be compelled to buy the Questyle as an alternate amp for more finesse, technicality and pure resolution.
  
 I'll write the follow up on the official Questyle thread, as I'm thinking I should have for this, but didn't because the main topic is indeed the HD800


----------



## Maxvla

Hm.. I wonder then, as a detail freak, what you will settle for since you don't like the most detailed phones out there? Also, it's fine to state your preferences, but tubes and/or very warm DACs are certainly not the only way to go, as you tell your readers.


----------



## Sonido

^ As many have noted because this amp is so transparent, and the HD800 as well, the DAC plays a bigger role with this combo. I'm using the Emotiva DC-1 and I personally do not find the treble to be a problem. But I'm also pretty sure I'm not very sensitive to the 6 kHz range. I'm more so to 2-3 kHz.
  
 Great and thorough review btw!


----------



## TwoEars

I kind of wonder what you guys would think about a really warm SS amp like the burson conductor or Audio-GD Phoenix.
  
 The Phoenix is warm and smooth, little bit "heavy" in it's sound signature. I personally didn't care for it since I felt it colored the recordings too much. But maybe it's what you need?
  
 I also liked the character of the Burson HA-160 though, but the synergy with the HD800 was terrible. I've heard that the conductor is supposed to have better synergy with the HD800.
  
 Also, I've been working on something... stay tuned.


----------



## dleblanc343

maxvla said:


> Hm.. I wonder then, as a detail freak, what you will settle for since you don't like the most detailed phones out there? Also, it's fine to state your preferences, but tubes and/or very warm DACs are certainly not the only way to go, as you tell your readers.


 
 I already settled for the HD800 and HE6, a long time ago.
  
 I never told anyone warm dacs, or tubes are the only way to go... Here's what I quoted that may have brought some confusion: "I don't think SS is the way to go for me" as highlighted in my impressions as I had a feeling it would stand out before I even posted. And "If you want to get rid of the edginess, you absolutely need a very warm dac or maybe the Anax mod can do wonders, who knows".
  
 On the last statement, I clearly mention the two necessities in taming edginess if you are to have an HD800/CMA800R. Anything else will absolutely have edginess. 
  
 Hope it's a bit more clear lol


----------



## Dabboo

I've just come back from my local Hi-Fi store today after hearing a range of Sennheisers. I got to have a solid 1 hour sessions between the HD600s, 650s, 700s and 800s.
  
 I spent a good bit of time with the 600s when I went in and listened to a few tracks running through a Rotel amp (I'm unsure of the model, it was about $2,200AUD) and wasn't all too impressed by them, they sounded good but it wasn't what I had expected from them. I moved up to the HD650s and for me, this was a noticeable jump in quality despite some people preferring the HD600s likely due to its flatter frequency response. I felt pretty confident with the HD650s and was ready to eyeball them as an addition to my current setup. I continued and moved along to the HD700s and I felt there was a noticeable improvement between the HD650s and the HD700s, as there should've been considering the HD700s were nearing the $1,000AUD mark. 
  
 Then I picked up the HD800s.
  
 These things blew the HD700s out of the water with an atom bomb. I was shocked that for about $500AUD more than it's little brother that there was an improvement this big. I'll preface by saying that I'm horrible with describing how things (especially headphones) sound. They had more clarity, imaging, soundstage and separation.
  
 I listened to a few tracks from Daft Punk/Ed Sheeran/James Blake/Skrillex/Miles Davis. I could hear each instrument or sound separate from all the rest and I could focus on one and follow it perfectly until it ended. I could hear the soundstage and each little note and where it was coming from and when I did listen, it was clear and precise.
  
 I left the store after all of this to think things over before I decide to purchase the or not and I'm now at home typing this up mainly to get what I heard into writing.
  
 The HD800s are amazing and now it's just a case of justifying $1,500AUD for them. I think that a lot of people like to play the upgrade game and buy and sell different headphones, getting better and better each time but I'd like to jump straight there and know I've got exactly what I want. I also doubt I'd ever need to buy headphones again if I got these.
  
 For reference my current setup (albeit entry-level) is a FiiO E07K and some DT770 80 Ohms.
  
 If I pull the trigger on these, I'm looking into Schiit as my DAC/Amp setup, what would you all recommend?
  
 Those are my thoughts on the HD800s! Sorry if it's a bit long and rambling!
  
 Thanks,
  
 Dave.


----------



## Maxvla

Short term you can do a Matrix M-Stage HPA-2 w/DAC (if you use USB primary), or a Schiit Modi + Vali stack (also USB only). Both are great with HD800s for the money. If you like Schiit for long term, keep up with impressions of the Ragnarok (amp) that is due this or next month, and Yggdrasil (DAC) due sometime later this year. Otherwise stick with the low priced options I mentioned and start saving and searching for a high end amp and DAC. Skip all the middle stuff as it doesn't do well enough with HD800s to warrant the cost, IMO.


----------



## Dabboo

I personally don't see myself moving to a high end amp or DAC. I prefer solid state amps as I dislike the idea of changing the sound with tubes. I don't understand the point of a high end DAC as all it does is urn 1s and 0s into a signal. 
  
 I'm definitely looking into the M-Stage HPA-2 or possibly the O2+ODAC from JDS Labs.


----------



## Sorrodje

dabboo said:


> I personally don't see myself moving to a high end amp or DAC. I prefer solid state amps as I dislike the idea of changing the sound with tubes. I don't understand the point of a high end DAC as all it does is urn 1s and 0s into a signal.
> 
> I'm definitely looking into the M-Stage HPA-2 or possibly the O2+ODAC from JDS Labs.


 
  
  
 You should change your mind or your HD800 will quickly reach the For Sale section and you'll join the crowd of HD800 haters. 
  
 HD800 does a wow effect because of its clarity, fastnessn, soudnstage & detail. But , day after day and month after month, living with the HD800 is another story. Qualities becomes Flaws and harshness & fatigue can become your better ennemies.  Read this thread and the previous one. You should discover how many Owners were wowed for the first time and how after weeks they disappeared from the thread. Guve a look to profile or signature: No more HD800. The only HD800 keepers are people who took time to build a specific rig for their HD800. This quest doesn't require necessarily a lot of money but a lot of time to choose appropriate gear for your tastes and necessarily an open mind.  
  
 I didn't believe so much in the differences between amp & DAC before purchasing my HD800. Now I do  
  
  
 For those whose interested on my opinion about the Vali : I unplugged and sold it and My MG Head is back. Definitely not my cup of tea despite its virtues. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Vali + NFB12.1 was very good but REGA + Vali isn't ( IMO, IME ...blablabla)


----------



## TwoEars

sorrodje said:


> The only HD800 keepers are people who took time to build a specific rig for their HD800. This quest doesn't require necessarily a lot of money but a lot of time to choose appropriate gear for your tastes and necessarily an open mind.


 
  
 Speaking of which....
  
 So - it was raining, I got a bit bored and well... I ended up hardwiring my HD800's. Oh well, these things happen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Maybe this should be in DIY but what the heck, it's fun.
  
 The HD800 comes apart surprisingly easy, it's definitely a well engineered product. The overall project took me 5 hours or so, but I wouldn't say it's hard. If you can build a crack amp you can definitely do this. Most of the time was spent scratching my head about how to secure the cables going into the HD800, I wanted something nice looking and not just a big blob of superglue.
  
 You need some good tools though, miniature torx set for instance. The cable is a professional grade microphone cable with 23AWG oxygen free copper, it's not mogami but very similar.
  

 So as you can see what I ended up doing was that I drilled out the old stock connectors and I'm using those to hold the new cable, it's a very snug fit and a bit of super epoxy applied from the top of the connector makes sure that everything stays in place. Working great so far!
  
  

 New cable in place and ready for hard termination, little bit of presolder on the wires. Now which one was the red HD800 termination point? Hmmm... 50-50 right?
  
  

 Not too shabby. I wanted to be extremely careful not to heat up the internal wiring of the driver, so presoldered wires and a quick dab with the soldering gun was all I did.
  
  

 Done! Neutrik makes good connectors but when you want a bit of bling nothing beats Viablue.
  
  

 Everything back together and tubes heating, prepare for takeoff.
  
  
 So how does it sound.... well... I cannot deny that there is a certain psychological bias that comes from having built something yourself.... and for some reason I'm having a bit of a problem doing A/B comparisons. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So take this with a grain of salt but I know you'll want it so here goes.
  
 You know how people talk about finding those last 1-2% in a system? Well, I think I just found those percent in mine. I've had fancy cables in my home before but at the time they just didn't do what I wanted them to. I think I was expecting too much and/or wasn't listening for the right things.
  
 But now I can honestly say that this is the first time I've ever heard my HD800 sound better without any EQ than with EQ. I usually EQ down the 6k Hz band a bit to take away some of the harshness and siblance you can get up there. I... don't... feel the need anymore. The way I hear it now is that the treble is _extended_ but _smooth_.
  
 I also can't detect any "digital edge" at all. I've always had this slight, slight digital edge in my system, it was small and it wasn't bothering me much but it was definitely there. I thought it was coming from the Anedio D1 as a price to be paid for it being hyperdetailed and resolving. Well, whatever it was I can't hear it anymore.... I can't swear if it's the cable or just the overall synergy of the system that finally clicked, but something definitely happend to my ears. It sounds "calmer and more composed".
  
 I just listened to the entire "The XX" album from start to finish in one go and it was utter and complete sonic bliss. I think there is a touch more more bass volume and midrange presence, and the overall presentation feels more relaxed.
  
 Overall I must say that this system plays amazing music, details come flying at you from a pitch black canvas, relaxed presentation, neutral, clear, free from coloration, fantastic soundstage, great presence, lots of textures and layering. Pick you favorite hyperbole and stick it in! It's "hypnotically good". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So that could be my tip of the day for you. If you're finding the HD800 a bit abrasive in the treble try a relatively thick pure copper cable (single strand will do just fine!), and stay far away from any kind of silver. It's not a massive change but like I said, if you're chasing those last 1-2 percent it could be just the thing you were looking for.


----------



## Sorrodje

@TwoEars: Great post thank You. Very clean DIY and  using the female connector for a cleaner result is a great idea ! 
  
 I' m convinced that recabling directly on drivers will be my ultimate upgrade. As we say in France:  "The cherry on the cake".
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 I-want-my-Sonett 2-right-now


----------



## kamalz

dabboo said:


> For reference my current setup (albeit entry-level) is a FiiO E07K and some DT770 80 Ohms.
> 
> If I pull the trigger on these, I'm looking into Schiit as my DAC/Amp setup, what would you all recommend?
> 
> ...


 
  
  
   I try Schitt Lyr with tubes like the cca pre & post 1965, mullard gold pin, amperex SQ to make HD800 sings  but i failed miserably. 
   i have not try my new power cord which is using factory grade wire(   40%silver & 60% copper)   with rhodium plated plugs yet ..
   the point is in order to make ****t  - HD800 sings ... my opinion you need a lot of investment
   Since you are having only 1 headphone, try to get a set up that moves u emotionally & not  solely wow you


----------



## kamalz

twoears said:


> Everything back together and tubes heating, prepare for takeoff.
> 
> 
> So how does it sound.... well... I cannot deny that there is a certain psychological bias that comes from having built something yourself.... and for some reason I'm having a bit of a problem doing A/B comparisons.


 
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  ..Very funny
  
  
   Congrats for  your achievement


----------



## hekeli

sorrodje said:


> The only HD800 keepers are people who took time to build a specific rig for their HD800. This quest doesn't require necessarily a lot of money but a lot of time to choose appropriate gear for your tastes and necessarily an open mind.


 
  
 This is getting Head-Fi-ridiculous. I'm sure many, MANY, HD800 owners are just fine with their random lower end gear, still enjoying the clarity, soundstage etc which is the base signature. No one is denying better gear might better things by some subjective amount, but let's not exaggerate to the extreme. I would be satisfied even with ODAC/O2 rig vs the CMA800R I'm testing right now. Also you can always EQ, Anax mod and whatever. Let's keep things sensible yes?
  
 (I know the point was just trying some different gear, cheap or not. Vali etc. But I'm still not saying to anyone that you need to go though dozens of amps to find what you like.)


----------



## kamalz

dabboo said:


> s.
> If I pull the trigger on these, I'm looking into Schiit as my DAC/Amp setup, what would you all recommend?
> Dave.


 
  
    Owh.. i forget..  Do listen to crack amp driving HD800 ..
   I just recieved mine last week..
   IMO  you cannot go wrong with this.. even without the fancy  tubes


----------



## Sorrodje

hekeli said:


> (I know the point was just trying some different gear, cheap or not. Vali etc. But I'm still not saying to anyone that you need to go though dozens of amps to find what you like.)


 
  
 Yes that was the point. 
  
 Everyone can surely find quickly a good result. I did with a Dacmagic + jazz for example and the first change I did in my gear is to get rid of my previous dac that was too bright. So when I read " Dac doesn't matter, its' only 0 and 1" I really cant shut my mouth 
  
 That been said I totally agree that it's quite easy to obtain a good and enjoyable result with the HD800 but who knows it is good *enough* ? That's my second point. If you're like many of us very involved in a  "best sound" quest ( more refined, more accurate, more enjoyable ou whatever you want then the quest is a bit more complicated IME.  Anyone who tried different gears with the HD800 understands immediately that changes are real. Sometimes subtles and sometimes obvious but overally real.
  
 More forgiving and less transparent headphones are more easy to live with.  With a HD800 , the question "I'm happy with what I hear...but....but...but is there somewhere something better" stays in my mind. That's my personal experience. 
  
 My 0,02.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Good morning. 

If anyone from this thread is going to ny meet 
I am bringing my hd800 my hdvd800
And my offramp. All will be played through 
My surface pro. Both red book and hi Rez 

It really is something to hear. 

See you there. 

Al


----------



## twsmith

greed said:


> Just want to point out that the GS-X mk1 and mk2 are quite a bit different in SQ. There is no comparison, the mk2 is a much better amp IMO.


 
 I'm quite aware that the modules in the Mk2 have been updated and should sound better than the Mk1 (especially when handling more difficult to drive headphones), although it would be surprising to me that they would be that much different, considering that the Mk1 was already considered near or at the top of its class. I might add that I enjoyed immensely the Mk1 when I had it, especially with a few other headphones (e.g. balanced AKG701s); it's just that I could never seem to get it to sound quite the way I wanted with my HD800s (which the Questyle does).  
  
 I would suggest that a fairer test of the GS-X Mk2 vs the CMA800R might be to compare the Mk2 balanced to two Questyle amps (dual mono).  Of course you could compare the GS-X Mk2 in single-ended mode to one CMA800R, although I doubt too many people would buy a GS-X to use only as a single-ended amp. Either way, I suspect the differences between them would narrow down quite a bit.   The point here is not to debate the relative merits of the GS-X vs the CMA800R -- both are very good amps that can readily compete with other fine amps that have a special synergy with the HD800s.   None are necessarily "the best" -- it's really personal preference.


----------



## eantala

@dleblanc343 , Curious what tube amp you own that you prefer to your CMA800R.?


----------



## Sonido

dabboo said:


> I personally don't see myself moving to a high end amp or DAC. I prefer solid state amps as I dislike the idea of changing the sound with tubes. I don't understand the point of a high end DAC as all it does is urn 1s and 0s into a signal.
> 
> I'm definitely looking into the M-Stage HPA-2 or possibly the O2+ODAC from JDS Labs.



A midrange option could be the Questyle Q192 dac/amp combo at $650. Note that I have never tried this amp, but knowing now how much I like the CMA800R, I think I would like the Q192 as well. It uses the trickle down technology of its big brother, the CMA800R, including the current mode amplification. I've heard from a couple people who have tried both to note the similarities. It does seem like there's a void between the $250 m-stage and high end amps starting in the mid $1000s. Perhaps this fills that gap?


----------



## dleblanc343

eantala said:


> @dleblanc343 , Curious what tube amp you own that you prefer to your CMA800R.?


 

 It's a McIntosh MC225.. but mostly just on the outside lol. It's been modified a lot, modernized to be more neutral, less noisy and basically just measure tremendously better than stock. It's the most enjoyable pairing with HD800 for me so far, having a great balance of musicality and technical aptitude. The highs are rolled off compared to most high end SS headphone amps on the market today though, but it's what I find makes it all the more enjoyable for the HD800's.


----------



## preproman

kaesar94 said:


> With preproman, there is the first negative comment around the Questyle with the HD800. It's a very sad moment for me


 
 I didn't give it a negative comment at all.  I just like the GS-X mk2 better..


----------



## preproman

kaesar94 said:


> Was the HD800 connected to the HeadAmp Gs-x in balanced mode?


 
 Of course - why would it not?


----------



## preproman

.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

How does it feel to be me hahahaha

Just kidding I am sure it is what you hear though

Al


----------



## kaesar94

dleblanc343 said:


> Well here are my initial imressions after ~30 hours of burn-in with the CMA800R. It's the best SS amp I've heard with the HD800's; the most effortless and transparent yet. But I'm kind of disappointed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
 Soo.....dleblanc343 says the CMA800R mantains the "brightness" sound of the HD800, and he dislike it for this.
  
 Quote:


preproman said:


> If your talking about this amp:  http://www.amazon.com/Questyle-CMA800R-Current-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00GM7F8E8  I got an od chance to hear it a week or so ago.  On a pure humble as I never really knew anything about the amp.
> 
> In short.  It rocks with the HE-500s / not so much with the HD800s IMO.  Although it did sound pretty good, It lacks the transparency and the full bottom end of the GS-X mk2.


 
  
 Preproman says the CMA800R is too smooth with HD800, and he dislike it too for this...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 WHERE IS THE TRUE? (sorry for the insistence, but i was, and still now, seriously considering to buy the CMA800R for my HD800...and after numerous very strongly positive review of CMA800R/HD800, like project86 and each other, these lastly comments made me hesitate....)
  
 I seriously want to say if the Questyle really is the best overall choice in the 2k$ budget for HD800, and if is so far to the GS-X MKII...
  
 Sorry again....thank you in advance...


----------



## dleblanc343

I say try it out. I love the questyle and decided I will be purchasing it, albeit it being bright at times with the HD800 (because of the hd800).

There definitely is a good amount of body, and nice slam and prat compared to amps like the mjolnir, phonitor and bha-1 as i mentioned.


----------



## Hun7er

dleblanc343 said:


> It's a McIntosh MC225.. but mostly just on the outside lol. It's been modified a lot, modernized to be more neutral, less noisy and basically just measure tremendously better than stock. It's the most enjoyable pairing with HD800 for me so far, having a great balance of musicality and technical aptitude. The highs are rolled off compared to most high end SS headphone amps on the market today though, but it's what I find makes it all the more enjoyable for the HD800's.


 
  
 Like dleblanc343 I use a McIntosh MC225 but it is not modified. Only capacitors have been replaced. I also test the HD800 with Audio Research D70MKII, Audiomat Prelude Reference 20 and Threshold SA30s and there is little difference between them.
  
 But they sound excellent with the HD800. They give it more weight, more bass slam, silky high, holographic soundstage, effortless and liquid sound like stat.


----------



## kaesar94

preproman said:


> Of course - why would it not?





It would be interesting to compare with the Questyle in unbalanced mode....or with two Questyle in mono full balance mode...


----------



## Dadracer

Tell you what though, the HD800 will sound good via good valve or transistor powered amplifiers, BUT the big difference is balanced versus standard. So please for the love of all that's holy get a amp and cables for balanced operation otherwise you have not truly heard what your HD800s are capable of......no really.


----------



## BournePerfect

dadracer said:


> Tell you what though, the HD800 will sound good via good valve or transistor powered amplifiers, BUT the big difference is balanced versus standard. So please for the love of all that's holy get a amp and cables for balanced operation otherwise you have not truly heard what your HD800s are capable of......no really.




no.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Hello I have cables both ways and I will,report what I hear for what it's worth. I can say the only amp I do remember balanced making a big difference was the woo WA 22. It sounds fantastic in bal and not so in SE 

And the owner of woo audio told me use it in balance mode .

Al


----------



## Dadracer

Ok fair enough, its up to you at the end of the day.......but you're wrong.


----------



## 62ohm

This is going to be amusing.. Argument war starts in 3..2....1.......


----------



## TwoEars

Who are all these people? Do they even own the HD800? I'd wager not. I want their face, id, receipt and HD800 all in one picture before I believe it.


----------



## Sonido

kaesar94 said:


> Preproman says the CMA800R is too smooth with HD800, and he dislike it too for this...
> 
> WHERE IS THE TRUE? (sorry for the insistence, but i was, and still now, seriously considering to buy the CMA800R for my HD800...and after numerous very strongly positive review of CMA800R/HD800, like project86 and each other, these lastly comments made me hesitate....)
> 
> ...



Trust your own ears.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

If you want I'd use the serial numbers of the head sets. I Am 15000. 

Al


----------



## MickeyVee

Not everyone wants the ultimate in transparency and to get the absolute most of the HD800.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 The beauty of them is that you can tailor the sound with amp/dac to suit your own tastes. I for one will probably never go balanced.  If I want the clean transparent sound, I plug into my Naim but most of the time now it's the WA6. Works for me. YMMV.
  
 Quote:


dadracer said:


> Tell you what though, the HD800 will sound good via good valve or transistor powered amplifiers, BUT the big difference is balanced versus standard. So please for the love of all that's holy get a amp and cables for balanced operation otherwise you have not truly heard what your HD800s are capable of......no really.


----------



## 62ohm

mickeyvee said:


>


 
  
 There is always the Alo Studio Six


----------



## MickeyVee

Or the new McIntosh headphone/integraded amp/dac.. Yummy on both!!
 Someone has the McIntosh D100 with the ALO - that may work for me.  Would love to hear it!
 Quote:


62ohm said:


> There is always the Alo Studio Six


----------



## TwoEars

> Not everyone wants the ultimate in transparency and to get the absolute most of the HD800.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 YMMV is the key phrase and I couldn't agree more.
  
 The HD800's are very transparent, it's all about what kind of sound you want to and what makes you happy. At this level there really isn't "better or worse" just different.
  
 It's a bit like cars. Is a Porsche better than a Hummer? How? Are we talking through a swamp or around a race course? Is a Mazda Miata slower than the Porsche? Yes... but you might actually have more fun in the Miata on the road. As you say - YMMV


----------



## Eee Pee

sorrodje said:


> @Eee Pee :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Alright, here I am, back after a weekend of a lot of listening, though I didn't need much time to assess the differences between the Vali and Sonett.  Lotta Dead Can Dance - Toward The Within on SACD (MFSL).  One thing that happened a few times was when I was totally in the zone and noticing how good everything sounded, when I opened my eyes, it was always the Sonett.  Smoother, clearer window into the recording, larger soundstage.  The Vali might have the edge in image definition but the larger in every way soundstage was more my style than one that is pin point.  I like a bigger space than one that's like, around my eyes.  Closer to a speaker set up, I guess.
  
 Extension was good on both amps.  Sonett with the Mullard and Reflektor tube has more balls.  Simple as that.
  
 Wait, I'm gonna cut my self short.  Seeing how it's the HD 800 appreciation thread I will simple state, I liked the Sonett with the 800s way more than the Vali, and I don't care what either one costs.  I also like my Mjolnir with my headphones more than I do with the Vali.  Vali is nice, but it's not living up to the hype for me, and I'm pretty sure I don't feel the need to buy one, cause I was considering it.  
  
 I suppose buying one as a stopgap before you really dump some cash on this stuff is an okay suggestion... but personally, I wouldn't expect TOOOOO much from it.


----------



## Sonido

eee pee said:


> Alright, here I am, back after a weekend of a lot of listening, though I didn't need much time to assess the differences between the Vali and Sonett.  Lotta Dead Can Dance - Toward The Within on SACD (MFSL).  One thing that happened a few times was when I was totally in the zone and noticing how good everything sounded, when I opened my eyes, it was always the Sonett.  Smoother, clearer window into the recording, larger soundstage.  The Vali might have the edge in image definition but the larger in every way soundstage was more my style than one that is pin point.  I like a bigger space than one that's like, around my eyes.  Closer to a speaker set up, I guess.
> 
> Extension was good on both amps.  Sonett with the Mullard and Reflektor tube has more balls.  Simple as that.
> 
> ...


 

 Pretty sure there was always an implicit "for the money" qualifier when people talked about how great the Vali/HD800 pairing was.


----------



## Eee Pee

I always expect too much from things...


----------



## roguegeek

So you like Mjolnir with the HD 800? How does it compare to the Sonett?


----------



## Eee Pee

I haven't acquire a cable to make that pairing happen yet.  Dragging my feet a little bit there.  I do have cables for the Senn 600/650/700s though.  When I first got the Mjolnir I couldn't get over the feeling that the thing is just boring.  Yes it has authority and slam and pace, and is clear and concise and doesn't do much wrong.  But again, I felt bored.  So I wavered back and forth with it and the Sonett for a while.  Then as I settled in, the Mjolnir became my daily driver digital set up (with 600/650), and the Sonett (usually w/800s) was my special night analog rig set up.  I feel there's something about DNA's tuning or voicing that makes me feel like I'm listening to real music more than a recording and I really like that, but for listening hours on end the Mjolnir and 600/650 is pretty great.


----------



## icebear

I am listening to the HD800 directly driven by the e20 DAC (see avatar) and since I have the Sennheiser (about 3 month now) I have bought about 50 new CD's. That's simply how much fun it is to listen to this combo. I can't imagine how much improvement the balanced drive with the GSX-MkII can possibly bring to the party but I will let you know in about half a year ... batch 2014 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## mab1376

http://www.colorware.com/p-289-sennheiser-hd-800.aspx
  
 what?!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yea they are pretty cool looking in colors like that. 
Al


----------



## akhyar

mab1376 said:


> http://www.colorware.com/p-289-sennheiser-hd-800.aspx
> 
> what?!




It's funky. Or you can chose other colour options that suits your amp, cable, decor 

IIRC, someone posted that Colorware paint is not prone to chip as the stock paint


----------



## magiccabbage

akhyar said:


> It's funky. Or you can chose other colour options that suits your amp, cable, decor
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 How much is it if you send them the headphone?


----------



## akhyar

magiccabbage said:


> How much is it if you send them the headphone?




IIRC, around $200-300. 
I think the charges are published on their website


----------



## kh600rr

hey peeps , have any of you tried either the ~~Cypher Labs AlgoRhythm Duet Balanced Headphone Amplifier or ~~Ray Samuels Audio Emmeline SR-71B Balanced Amp?  I'm trying to find a good balanced portable amp, that I can use with my HD-800& AK-240,the AK-240 just doesn't seem to have enough HP to drive my HD-800 to the level I'm looking.thx


----------



## Maxvla

If you need power on the go check out the CEntrance Hifi-M8. Kind of a brick, but has good power ratings. No clue how the pairing sounds, though.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I have the alo mkii 3b. I can try it. . I also have the iBasso do ? What ever bal amp to.

Pm to try and I will ok

Al


----------



## arteom

Just got a new set of earpads. My old set were pretty much worn the hell out, I mean flat, just done and done. I highly recommend doing so for anyone who has worn out earpads, new set definitely helps in taming glare. Just try it, headroom sells them, I got mine from custom.cable.uk (headroom was out of stock at the time).


----------



## magiccabbage

arteom said:


> Just got a new set of earpads. My old set were pretty much worn the hell out, I mean flat, just done and done. I highly recommend doing so for anyone who has worn out earpads, new set definitely helps in taming glare. Just try it, headroom sells them, I got mine from custom.cable.uk (headroom was out of stock at the time).


 
 how much ere they?


----------



## arteom

magiccabbage said:


> how much ere they?


 
 £56.71 -> http://www.custom-cable.co.uk/official-sennheiser-hd800-replacement-earpads-ear-cushions.html
  
 Well worth it when you consider the mods and whatever else people will do in attempts to "tame the highs".


----------



## drez

kaesar94 said:


> Preproman says the CMA800R is too smooth with HD800, and he dislike it too for this...
> 
> WHERE IS THE TRUE? (sorry for the insistence, but i was, and still now, seriously considering to buy the CMA800R for my HD800...and after numerous very strongly positive review of CMA800R/HD800, like project86 and each other, these lastly comments made me hesitate....)
> 
> ...




Both could be true, the guy who wites cma800 is bright is used to tube amps, preproman might have a different perspective and also be speaking the truth.


----------



## TwoEars

eee pee said:


> I feel there's something about DNA's tuning or voicing that makes me feel like I'm listening to real music more than a recording and I really like that...


 
  
 That's an insteresting sentance because that's pretty much what I've taken away from my Sonett 1 as well. It's extremely clear and free from coloration, it really doesn't sound like a tube amp. It's fun and agile and quick and with good extension both ways. But what it does is that when I'm really in the zone I forget that "I'm listening to recorded music, I'm just listening to music". If that makes any sense at all.
  
 It's a subtle but pretty neat little trick when you think about it.
 Thanks for your impressions!


----------



## Sorrodje

> Originally Posted by *Eee Pee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...
> 
> I suppose buying one as a stopgap before you really dump some cash on this stuff is an okay suggestion... but personally, I wouldn't expect TOOOOO much from it.


 
  
 Thks for this feedback.
  


sonido said:


> Pretty sure there was always an implicit "for the money" qualifier when people talked about how great the Vali/HD800 pairing was.


 
  
  
 I've read somewhere that the Vali was the best tube amp under 1850$.  I'm not so experienced in tube amps but I can definitively find a solid state amp that does a better job to my ears with the HD800 and for far less than 1850$. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  
  
  
 That been said Vali + NFB12.1 did a very good combo but the NFB12.1 sounds darker than the REGA,


----------



## akhyar

sorrodje said:


> ......
> I've read somewhere that the Vali was the best tube amp under 1850$.  I'm not so experienced in tube amps but I can definitively find a solid state amp that does a better job to my ears with the HD800 and for far less than 1850$.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Best tube amp under $1850? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I think that is too much exaggerating.
 No doubt Vali is very good value, but TO ME, it's not THAT (enter $1850) good


----------



## LugBug1

TwoEars, nice job on the hard wiring. There's not many that would attempt that! Looks cool.


----------



## TwoEars

lugbug1 said:


> TwoEars, nice job on the hard wiring. There's not many that would attempt that! Looks cool.


 
  
 Thanks!
  
 I'm really liking it !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 But to have it wired like this really makes sense when you think about it.
  
 The amplifier is balanced so that means that the current going through the headphone drivers are going back into the amp and then back out into the drivers again. Essentially the wiring inside the amp, the cable and the headphone driver is one big closed circuit. There is no ground that the headphone driver can see.
  
 And I can bet you that the wiring inside the amp is pure copper so to then introduce another cable into this loop that is copper/silver (like the stock one) really doesn't make a lot of sense from an engineering standpoint. Why would you mix two different kinds of cables in one circuit? It really doesn't make a lot of sense.
  
 To me the music just became "more musical", it's more relaxed and composed. The overall effect of the system is that it no longer feels like "digital music", it just sounds like "music". Which is very nice.


----------



## LugBug1

twoears said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I'm really liking it !!!
> 
> ...


 
 Yup makes sense to me


----------



## twsmith

kaesar94 said:


> Preproman says the CMA800R is too smooth with HD800, and he dislike it too for this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 My recommendation -- go ahead and buy the CMA800R now and try it with your HD800.    You should be able to get it very quickly - mine only took about a week to arrive.  As good as the GS-X is, it will be a very long wait to get one (check the GS-X threads to get an idea of the turnaround time).   Here we're talking many months, not weeks or days.   I'm not saying it's not worth the wait, but seeing that you're almost ready to pull the trigger on the CMA800R, at least you will quickly have an amp you can evaluate.   If you decide that you still want to try the GS-X, you have nothing to lose (Justin only requires a 1/4 deposit to reserve one) -- you will have the very fine Questyle to listen to while waiting for the GS-X to arrive.   Keep both amps for awhile and see which one you like better.   The one thing that theoretically might argue a little more for the GS-X would be if you wish to use other headphones besides the HD800.   In skimming through the threads on the CMA800R, my impression is that this amp, being specifically designed for the HD800, may or may not sound quite as outstanding (but still good) with some other headphones.   Another amp that appears to work very well with HD800s (but not quite as good as the CMA800) and other headphones is the Auralic Taurus MkII (see review by project86).  I was considering this amp as well, but decided on the Questyle since I'm already a big fan of the HD800 and knew it would be my primary headphone.


----------



## dleblanc343

drez said:


> Both could be true, the guy who wites cma800 is bright is used to tube amps, preproman might have a different perspective and also be speaking the truth.


 
 I actually just recently stepped into tubes for the HD800's, and am more familiar with the SS amps out there. As mentioned, I've owned the mjolnir, phonitor and BHA-1; and the Questyle outshines them easily, it's special.
  
_CMA800R is not necessarily bright, but is definitely not forgiving._ I made it clear that the HD800's won't loose that energy up high with the CMA800R, as it is just being true to the source. I'll repeat it again, the issue in the whole chain is the HD800's treble, which is not much of an issue for most, and definitely liveable for me.
  
 I now own the Questyle CMA800R, and will be doing the Anax mod to sort things out. And yes, it still sounds artificial in comparaison to my McIntosh; but it's the best yet in SS to my ears indeed.


----------



## drez

dleblanc343 said:


> I actually just recently stepped into tubes for the HD800's, and am more familiar with the SS amps out there. As mentioned, I've owned the mjolnir, phonitor and BHA-1; and the Questyle outshines them easily, it's special.
> 
> _CMA800R is not necessarily bright, but is definitely not forgiving._ I made it clear that the HD800's won't loose that energy up high with the CMA800R, as it is just being true to the source. I'll repeat it again, the issue in the whole chain is the HD800's treble, which is not much of an issue for most, and definitely liveable for me.
> 
> I now own the Questyle CMA800R, and will be doing the Anax mod to sort things out. And yes, it still sounds artificial in comparaison to my McIntosh; but it's the best yet in SS to my ears indeed.




My bad didnt mean to speak for you, nice of you to clarify.


----------



## Sonido

dleblanc343 said:


> I actually just recently stepped into tubes for the HD800's, and am more familiar with the SS amps out there. As mentioned, I've owned the mjolnir, phonitor and BHA-1; and the Questyle outshines them easily, it's special.
> 
> _CMA800R is not necessarily bright, but is definitely not forgiving._ I made it clear that the HD800's won't loose that energy up high with the CMA800R, as it is just being true to the source. I'll repeat it again, the issue in the whole chain is the HD800's treble, which is not much of an issue for most, and definitely liveable for me.
> 
> I now own the Questyle CMA800R, and will be doing the Anax mod to sort things out. And yes, it still sounds artificial in comparaison to my McIntosh; but it's the best yet in SS to my ears indeed.


 

 You plan on getting a second one anytime soon? Or just your store getting a second one. Not many reviews out there to tell how much a difference going balanced makes for HD800 and this amp vs. SE. Curious to know if it's worth it.


----------



## zeissiez

dleblanc343 said:


> I actually just recently stepped into tubes for the HD800's, and am more familiar with the SS amps out there. As mentioned, I've owned the mjolnir, phonitor and BHA-1; and the Questyle outshines them easily, it's special.
> 
> _CMA800R is not necessarily bright, but is definitely not forgiving._ I made it clear that the HD800's won't loose that energy up high with the CMA800R, as it is just being true to the source. I'll repeat it again, the issue in the whole chain is the HD800's treble, which is not much of an issue for most, and definitely liveable for me.
> 
> I now own the Questyle CMA800R, and will be doing the Anax mod to sort things out. And yes, it still sounds artificial in comparaison to my McIntosh; but it's the best yet in SS to my ears indeed.




Hi there, I have a Phonitor too, how is the CMA800R compared to the Phonitor in soundtage size, weight at the bottom of the spectrum, bass impact, layering and imaging. Thanks a lot!


----------



## dleblanc343

drez said:


> My bad didnt mean to speak for you, nice of you to clarify.



No worries 



sonido said:


> You plan on getting a second one anytime soon? Or just your store getting a second one. Not many reviews out there to tell how much a difference going balanced makes for HD800 and this amp vs. SE. Curious to know if it's worth it.



I'm not sure, but I'll possibly get to try it out if my coworker gets one too! That will be the determinant factor.



zeissiez said:


> Hi there, I have a Phonitor too, how is the CMA800R compared to the Phonitor in soundtage size, weight at the bottom of the spectrum, bass impact, layering and imaging. Thanks a lot!



The phonitor might be more versatile with the crossfeed options, however, I find the Questyle presents material more naturally. But phonitor by memory wins staging. Low end is much richer and accurate with the questyle, it's significantly better. Layering is also more coherent with the questyle. The phonitor has a tendancy of seperating the scene in 2 distinct blobs to me (center channel and then the rest). It sounds like a simulation, it's fun, but sometimes it just doesnt work.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I have a few good amps for the hd800. I own the phonitor spl. I need to do a comparison for my self with THISE headphones too. Anyone else have any input on the sound ?

Al


----------



## zeissiez

Thanks for the description. I find when using the Phonitor, no doubt details, imaging, soundstage is good, but I need use EQ to lift the bottom and roll-off the top to sound natural/full. But EQ is a poor solution as distortion sets in and it works for some tracks while not for some other tracks. So I wonder which amp will give the HD800 a full and natural tone. Any advice? Thanks


----------



## TwoEars

I've heard several people say that the SPL phonitor / auditor are poor matches for the HD800.
  
 What's your budget? The matrix m-stage is good for a budget solution.
  
 Also - when you do EQ try to never ever add but only take away. For instance you want to boost the bass by +5 db. Then take away -5dB from everything else instead. You will have to play at a louder volume but it usually gives better sound quality.


----------



## hekeli

twoears said:


> Also - when you do EQ try to never ever add but only take away. For instance you want to boost the bass by +5 db. Then take away -5dB from everything else instead. You will have to play at a louder volume but it usually gives better sound quality.


 
  
 Any decend eq with pre-amp function automatically or manually reduces the volume ceiling when boosting. Claiming some EQ creates distortion etc is pretty bogus, just use a good one with right parameters. I think there are many threads around.


----------



## TwoEars

hekeli said:


> Any decend eq with pre-amp function automatically or manually reduces the volume ceiling when boosting. Claiming some EQ creates distortion etc is pretty bogus, just use a good one with right parameters. I think there are many threads around.


 
  
 Well, I've got at least 3 EQ programs on my computer and none of them automatically reduces the volume ceiling. If I put in a +3dB bass boost that's exactly what I get. And if you try to boost anything more than say 3dB you get very noticable distortion.
  
 Which is why I thought it might be worth mentioning to zeissiez. ...


----------



## zeissiez

Hey, that's something I have not thought of, thanks for the tips. But I f I were to get an amp which will balance the tone of HD800, i.e. give more bottom weight, hence a fuller tone, with a budget of USD3000, do u have any recommendation? Thanks


----------



## PleasantSounds

twoears said:


> Well, I've got at least 3 EQ programs on my computer and none of them automatically reduces the volume ceiling. If I put in a +3dB bass boost that's exactly what I get. And if you try to boost anything more than say 3dB you get very noticable distortion.
> 
> Which is why I thought it might be worth mentioning to zeissiez. ...


 
  
 Graphic Equalizer in the popular Foobar2000 has auto volume adjustment:


----------



## olor1n

roguegeek said:


> So you like Mjolnir with the HD 800? How does it compare to the Sonett?


 
  
  


eee pee said:


> I haven't acquire a cable to make that pairing happen yet.  Dragging my feet a little bit there.  I do have cables for the Senn 600/650/700s though.  When I first got the Mjolnir I couldn't get over the feeling that the thing is just boring.  Yes it has authority and slam and pace, and is clear and concise and doesn't do much wrong.  But again, I felt bored.  So I wavered back and forth with it and the Sonett for a while.  Then as I settled in, the Mjolnir became my daily driver digital set up (with 600/650), and the Sonett (usually w/800s) was my special night analog rig set up.  I feel there's something about DNA's tuning or voicing that makes me feel like I'm listening to real music more than a recording and I really like that, but for listening hours on end the Mjolnir and 600/650 is pretty great.


 
  
 How well the Mjolnir matches with the HD800 is wholly dependant on the source component IME. I find the M51 to strike a good balance with this amp/headphone combo.
  
 That said, the MJ/HD650 pairing is freaking awesome. Really special synergy going on there.


----------



## olor1n

dleblanc343 said:


> drez said:
> 
> 
> > Both could be true, the guy who wites cma800 is bright is used to tube amps, preproman might have a different perspective and also be speaking the truth.
> ...


 
  
 I recall your impression of the M51's hdmi as smoother and more musical than usb. I agree. I employed usb without qualms but after utilising hdmi exclusive for a while I can now barely tolerate the switch. Give hdmi a try. It might take the edge off that solid state rig like it does for mine.


----------



## TwoEars

zeissiez said:


> Hey, that's something I have not thought of, thanks for the tips. But I f I were to get an amp which will balance the tone of HD800, i.e. give more bottom weight, hence a fuller tone, with a budget of USD3000, do u have any recommendation? Thanks


 
  
 That's a very sizable budget. You could spring for the Eddie Current Balancing Act with a pure copper headphone cable. They occasionally pop up on the second hand market around here. That will give you a very powerful high-end smooth sound. That amp is also powerful enough to drive anything on the market, including the LCD headphones.
  
 There is also the zana deux. If you don't already have a good dac you could do matrix x-sabre dac, zana dux amp and pure copper cable for around $3000 in total. That should be one helluva combo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Another runner up is the DNA Sonett 2 or Stratus. They are not really bottom heavy, but very nice sounding and I think Donald can tune them to your preference as well.
  
 Also worth mentioning are the Woo Audio WA 2/3/6. Warm nice tube sound, many people like them.
  
 As you can notice these are all tube amps...


----------



## Sorrodje

twoears said:


> Another runner up is the DNA Sonett 2 or Stratus. *They are not really* *bottom heavy*, but very nice sounding and I think Donald can tune them to your preference as well.


 
  
  
 Really?  you worry me a bit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  . Do you think your Sonett/HD800 lacks bass? When you say it's not bottom heavy , you're comparing to what ?
  
  
  
 PS : Yes I'm anxious while I'm waiting my new amp.


----------



## TwoEars

sorrodje said:


> Really?  you worry me a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Haha...  no it's not lean, there is bass. It's just that some people are looking for that dark tubey sound and then the sonett is the wrong choice.
  
 The sonett is very balanced and musical, it's really a very transparent amp and neither dark nor bright I would say.
  
 Don't worry - the sonett plays wonderful music, you'll love it.


----------



## Sorrodje

Haha . Thanks ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 It's always the same thing.. I kwow what I leave but I'm not sure of what to expect and the HD800  really sounded so wrong with some gear I tried. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .  The best bass I heard from the HD800 was with the Jan Meier amps. Extended, clear , layered & and even faster than everything i heard before. That been said , Jan meier's amp kept with the HD800 some slight edginess . it's the only thing that preventing me to order his complete stack DACCORD+CLASSIC.  There's something special to my ears with good tube amps: clarity & transparency are totally free of edginess.


----------



## TwoEars

When are you getting your Sonett 2 anyway? Is it in the mail or being made as we speak?


----------



## Sorrodje

twoears said:


> When are you getting your Sonett 2 anyway?


 
  
 Mid April I think . I ordered it a week ago.


----------



## TwoEars

sorrodje said:


> Mid April I think . I ordered it a week ago.


 
  
 I can understand your anticipation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There are some fun tube rolling options for it you can read up on in the meantime.
  
 Or you can recable your HD800's like I did, or do the anaxilus mod.
  
 I'm pretty damn happy with my setup right now but I might do the anaxilus mod just for fun.


----------



## zeissiez

twoears said:


> That's a very sizable budget. You could spring for the Eddie Current Balancing Act with a pure copper headphone cable. They occasionally pop up on the second hand market around here. That will give you a very powerful high-end smooth sound. That amp is also powerful enough to drive anything on the market, including the LCD headphones.
> 
> There is also the zana deux. If you don't already have a good dac you could do matrix x-sabre dac, zana dux amp and pure copper cable for around $3000 in total. That should be one helluva combo. :basshead:
> 
> ...




TwoEars, thanks for the recommendation!! But wow!! the Balancing Act is close to 4K, but I'll check out the others u mentioned


----------



## YoengJyh

I really wish someone here can try the HD800 with Earmax Pro Silver Edition OTL tube amp...


----------



## Viper2005

zeissiez said:


> Thanks for the description. I find when using the Phonitor, no doubt details, imaging, soundstage is good, but I need use EQ to lift the bottom and roll-off the top to sound natural/full. But EQ is a poor solution as distortion sets in and it works for some tracks while not for some other tracks. So I wonder which amp will give the HD800 a full and natural tone. Any advice? Thanks




I would suggest you try the Violectric v200. It fits exactly what you are looking for, an ss amp that rolls a tiny bit off the highs and gives a very full sound with great mids and bass!

The Yulong A18 is also very close sounding to the v200 and offers a balanced output (not true balanced tho), and costs a bit less too!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

After trying about 15 amps , I am happy to reccomend the HDVD600 amp. It is as good or far better than the majority of amps out there with these hesdphones. . I think it gets bashed as it is a name brand and not a specialty brand. .
 I am going to attend the ny meet. And will be bringing mine and really want to go head to head with all takers. .

Al


----------



## kaesar94

alrainbow said:


> After trying about 15 amps , I am happy to reccomend the HDVD600 amp. It is as good or far better than the majority of amps out there with these hesdphones. . I think it gets bashed as it is a name brand and not a specialty brand. .
> I am going to attend the ny meet. And will be bringing mine and really want to go head to head with all takers. .
> 
> Al


 
 Which amplifiers have you tried? With the HD800?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I will,list later having diner now . 

Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Woo audio wa22, WA5 , 234 mono blocks 
Phonitor spl 
Hdvd 800, 600
Mytek 192
AK 120
HDP r10 
Aragon 8008 BB
ARAGON 4004
DNA stratus
First watt F3 F1J
V moda 2 models dac amp combo 
02 and the battery one 
Krell kav 400 xi 
iPhones 4s, 5s 

 And a few more I can not think of the name right now. 
And yes I like the HDVD600 best. All Tube amps were with upgraded tubes .

Hope this helps someone here . I !not knocking other peoples choices or opinions. 

Al


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> Woo audio wa22, WA5 , 234 mono blocks
> Phonitor spl
> Hdvd 800, 600
> Mytek 192
> ...


 
 What is your top 3? Or do you have one? I think i asked you before if you preferred the WA5 over the DNA Stratus, but i cant remember what you said. It is the Stratus and not the sonnet 2 right? I plan on ordering the Stratus soon, I have a WA2 now and im really looking forward to hearing the differences.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Top 3 stratus , woo Wa22 and the sennheiser . But the krell was right there too , but the air around the recording was not as good. Now I did not care for the WA5 or the 234 with them. 

But I am willing to bet if I rolled tubes with the 234 it would be great like the WA22. 

My reason for picking the hdvd600 is the overall sound it is just all,in with details staging and ambience . 

Now this is just my picks and I guess it bothers me a bit how the amp made for it does not get any play in this. . I can understand this with hifiman or even stax amps .

But not sennheiser they are just way to anal in what they make and how it should be perfect. 
What I really think causes the lack of amp support is poor dacs connected to it. The amp shows everything so poor dac and the amp gets the blame. If connected to a really hiend dac . The amp,is fantastic. 
And the hdvd800 combo is fantastic with the AP1/PP OR MY OFFRAMP.5. And I know it's a lot of money but wow how good it sounds. 

Al


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> Top 3 stratus , woo Wa22 and the sennheiser . But the krell was right there too , but the air around the recording was not as good. Now I did not care for the WA5 or the 234 with them.
> 
> But I am willing to bet if I rolled tubes with the 234 it would be great like the WA22.
> 
> ...


 
 When i heard the HDVD600 it was connected to the NAD M51. Now i wasn't blown away by the combo but it was at a meet. I found the NAD a bit underwhelming as well. I would like to give it another go some other time though. 
  
 I have heard a few people say that the WA5 HD800 isn't all that great so i decided to stay away from that amp as the comments seem to be hit and miss. I have to be a bit more careful buying amps from the US because sending them back there from Ireland cost a hell of a lot of money. 
  
 Anyway thanks for the impressions. What tubes did you have in the DNA. Can you remember which amp had the bigger sound stage DNA or WA22?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Info not remember the tubes but know they were not stock 
And about the same for sound stage 
And the WA 5 is great with the HE 6 
But even the krell is better with the hd800 
They almost sound grany with it. 
The same is with the wa 22 and IEM s 
Not cool. Oh I know what the other ones are now
Audio GD ref 10.32 
And M8. 
They were both good and in fact those amps sound pretty good with anything 
I tried 
Al


----------



## Sonido

magiccabbage said:


> When i heard the HDVD600 it was connected to the NAD M51. Now i wasn't blown away by the combo but it was at a meet. I found the NAD a bit underwhelming as well. I would like to give it another go some other time though.


 
 Clearly you weren't using AP1/PP or offramp or coconut audio cables.


alrainbow said:


> Info not remember the tubes but know they were not stock
> And about the same for sound stage
> And the WA 5 is great with the HE 6
> But even the krell is better with the hd800
> ...


 
 Always a pleasure to read your poetry man.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I know lol I write like a mentally imparred 
But it is the truth and correct I just wish I had juicy words to use 
Lmao. At least I can take the criticism 

Al


----------



## Sonido

alrainbow said:


> I know lol I write like a mentally imparred
> But it is the truth and correct I just wish I had juicy words to use
> Lmao. At least I can take the criticism
> 
> Al


 

 No worries. It's your style. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For me it's actually faster to process your words than a block paragraph.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yea someone likes me. Hahaha


----------



## preproman

alrainbow said:


> Woo audio wa22, WA5 , 234 mono blocks
> Phonitor spl
> Hdvd 800, 600
> Mytek 192
> ...


 
  
 Are you sure you tried the F1J?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

F something it was at Craig's house . We tested it with the HE6 I know one was F3 I thought the other one was F1j 
I could be wrong on the model sorry. 
Al


----------



## magiccabbage

sonido said:


> Clearly you weren't using AP1/PP or offramp or coconut audio cables.
> Always a pleasure to read your poetry man.


 
 When i heard the HDVD600 and NAD M51 it was in a high end audio store called Cloney Audio in a closed off room. They have the best of the best gear available so i don't think the cables have anything to do with what i heard in that way. They are no slouches in that department.  I could find out what the cables were - i cant remember now off the top of my head, i do know that it was balanced. Actually if i esquire to find out what the cables were i don't think they would remember because this was back in November last year. They weren't cheap that's for sure!


----------



## preproman

Yea it was not the F1J Craig does not have one.  I'll be sending him mine when I get back home.
  
 The WA22 better than the Stratus??  No way....


----------



## Sonido

magiccabbage said:


> When i heard the HDVD600 and NAD M51 it was in a high end audio store called Cloney Audio in a closed off room. They have the best of the best gear available so i don't think the cables have anything to do with what i heard in that way. They are no slouches in that department.  I could find out what the cables were - i cant remember now off the top of my head, i do know that it was balanced. Actually if i esquire to find out what the cables were i don't think they would remember because this was back in November last year. They weren't cheap that's for sure!


 

 Guess I should have added a


----------



## Dionysus

alrainbow said:


> I know lol I write like a mentally imparred
> But it is the truth and correct I just wish I had juicy words to use
> Lmao. At least I can take the criticism
> 
> Al




I always find your post very helpful and I put a lot of trust in them, I sold my Asus Essence one. I'm leaning heavily on the Senn amps, the biggest question now is whether to go with the HDVD800 or 600. 
This is going to be my end game system, I only listen to one can now the HD800, I really don't have much more time for any other headphones.

 If I decided on the HDVA600 what recommendation do you have for me for a dac at say 700 to 1000 that's my max budget givin the amps expense.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Not saying better as in no contest . I just like the wa22 better it's a little brighter , detailed. Let's face it they are both really good tube amps . I had woos upgraded tubes and craig said the tubes in his struts were also upgraded. So I am not claiming your wrong . Now in looks I trultpy feel the wa22 is better . But i do feel the hdvd600 blows both of them away 
It has details you do not know are there till you use it. 
This is all opinion but a better source shows what they can be and it is key in really hearing what you were missing .

Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Well,that is tough regarding the dac choice. But the amp is easy . But again this is opinion and you must like it more than me saying it's great. I a, embarrassed to tell how much I have spent to get what I like. The amp,is much easier to fine than the dac . I am not sure 1000 is end game for a dac. . You might be better getting a used hevd800 and save up for a AP1/pp. Now that is endgame for sure . As there is better but but it will be thousands more so a safe bet to stay at that level. 

Al


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> Not saying better as in no contest . I just like the wa22 better it's a little brighter , detailed. Let's face it they are both really good tube amps . I had woos upgraded tubes and craig said the tubes in his struts were also upgraded. So I am not claiming your wrong . Now in looks I trultpy feel the wa22 is better . But i do feel the hdvd600 blows both of them away
> It has details you do not know are there till you use it.
> This is all opinion but a better source shows what they can be and it is key in really hearing what you were missing .
> 
> Al


 
 Hold on - you put the HDVD600 in front of the WA22 and DNA! I didn't even think it was as good as my WA2 when i heard it. Maybe i need to give this HDVD600 another go.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yes I do,put it ahead of them. And when you go bring the following. 
Bring music you know very well . Now this is fine but how do you know how good it really is. So now find a store that has a ultra hi end system and play your music. This alloys you to hear just how good it can be. Now you have a much better gauge as to what is better or best. Now next find the amp but listen to it on the best dac they have .
Now buy now you know how it should sound Nd have a better chance to pick the right choice. But now one more thing that most do not do. It must be on and warm to touch about 30 mins bother dac and amp. Of not it's a waist of time . The equipment we use for audio is very sensitive and must be at it's design temp to sound it's best. If is imperative. I m not a fan of burn in. But there is no doubt about warming up. My writing stinks so ask me questions and I will help .

Al


----------



## Dionysus

I think I may just go HDVD800 and then save another 1k down the road for an AP1/PP. I do not want to buy used.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

You sound like me. No used ,hahaha 

Al


----------



## Dionysus

Are there any retailers that discount Senn amps off retail pricing that you know of?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

No I do not , I paid 2k for mine and waited about 6 months for it . Now you can get them fast . 

Al


----------



## MickeyVee

You should be able to negotiate. When I auditioned the HDVD800, I was given quite a good price.  But then again, I've been dealing with the  same person for over 15 years.  I did not go for the HDVD800 as I had a really hard time discerning between it and my Naim DAC-V1.
  
 Quote:


dionysus said:


> Are there any retailers that discount Senn amps off retail pricing that you know of?


----------



## Dionysus

Hey Mickey I see you got the Woo W6, glad to hear your digging it. Your in Toronto correct what type of discount did you see? 10, 15 20%?


----------



## MickeyVee

PM'd you with location and strategy.  Yup, loving the WA6. Richer sound with the trade off of some air and detail.  Maybe the Sophia Princess will up the game. Anyway, I like the richness better than the technicalities.  Sophia on order and am going to contact Woo wrt upgrading the driver tubes.  So far, so good!
 Quote:


dionysus said:


>


----------



## Dionysus

Thx appreciate the help.


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> Yes I do,put it ahead of them. And when you go bring the following.
> Bring music you know very well . Now this is fine but how do you know how good it really is. So now find a store that has a ultra hi end system and play your music. This alloys you to hear just how good it can be. Now you have a much better gauge as to what is better or best. Now next find the amp but listen to it on the best dac they have .
> Now buy now you know how it should sound Nd have a better chance to pick the right choice. But now one more thing that most do not do. It must be on and warm to touch about 30 mins bother dac and amp. Of not it's a waist of time . The equipment we use for audio is very sensitive and must be at it's design temp to sound it's best. If is imperative. I m not a fan of burn in. But there is no doubt about warming up. My writing stinks so ask me questions and I will help .
> 
> Al


 
 I am familiar with letting amps warm up because i have a tube amp so i have that covered and i did so when i heard the HDVD600. In fact the amp was running for about 5 hours (which was how long the meet lasted). I organised the meet and the store owner - Ivan was kind enough to give me the room to myself for 2 hours. So those are the circumstances under which i assessed the HDVD600 and HDVD800. Like i said they let me use the NAD M51 and at the time i preferred the WA2. 
  
 I need to go back and spend more time listening. This time i will make sure i actually sleep the night before. Tiredness probably ruined my ability to tell the difference. Maybe i should of mentioned that. I was really busy the day before and got practically no sleep but that unfortunately could not be helped.  I will use their best speaker system also as a measure for the next time


----------



## akhyar

^ were you using balanced or single-ended headphone cable?
 When I auditioned the HDVD800, I only auditioned using the single-ended cable and I wasn't awed at all.
 I really wish I can audition again running balanced cable


----------



## MickeyVee

SE.  It was quite good but not a improvement over my Naim. Pretty close call between the two when using SE.
 Quote:


akhyar said:


> ^ were you using balanced or single-ended headphone cable?


----------



## magiccabbage

akhyar said:


> ^ were you using balanced or single-ended headphone cable?
> When I auditioned the HDVD800, I only auditioned using the single-ended cable and I wasn't awed at all.
> I really wish I can audition again running balanced cable


 
  balanced from the nad to the amp and single to the hd800


----------



## Frank I

The HD800 really sounds excellent on the GSX MK11 with the balanced single 4pin XLR and using the Oppo BDP 105 fully balanced with Nordost Blue Heaven and Nordost Blue Heaven power cables with a audioquest USB cable direct to the imac lossless files. The sound is excellent. headphone cable is the Moon Black Dragon


----------



## magiccabbage

frank i said:


> The HD800 really sounds excellent on the GSX MK11 with the balanced single 4pin XLR and using the Oppo BDP 105 fully balanced with Nordost Blue Heaven and Nordost Blue Heaven power cables with a audioquest USB cable direct to the imac lossless files. The sound is excellent. headphone cable is the Moon Black Dragon


 
 if you had to pick between WA5 and GSXMK2 for HD800 only which would you pick?


----------



## BournePerfect

WA5 w/ HD800 is NOTHING special with the HD80 imo. I know Frank probably feels differently though...
  
 -Daniel


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Frank you have a hdvd800. How does the amp section sound to you. Using your oppo as source ? I forgot you had one. Not looking to say what is best here just another trusted opinion. .?

Also I am not a fan of balanced over SE. but there are times it makes a big difference. Example the WA22. It stinks in SE. another thought is this. If the dac is balanced it should be used as such. Using only SE you do loose something and it can be heard. Example on my MSB DAC it has a seperate setting for SE. even though both outputs work all the time .
There is. A Marked improvement when using to SE and setting the control to,it. It evens discusses it in the manuel. For me I used the hdvd800 and hd800 in fully balanced all,the time 
And even when I tried other dacs with it ,they were always BAL. . This could be why the different opinions here. 

Al


----------



## Frank I

Al I dont have that Sennheiser amp anymore. It sounded excellent with the HD 800 when I had it and the GSX MK11 is fully balanced and sounds even better with my Oppo BDP105 balanced. I am using the Oppo ESS 9018 Dac mostly now
  
 Daniel you never had the  WA5 with the proper tubes in there. Using the Chinese tubes is a major trade off. My WA5 with the EML 300b, Tungsol Black glass 1942 6F8G and the 596 rectifier is much different than what you used with them. I dont think you ever heard the HD800 with the proper tubes. My WA5 has been to different meets and you can go read those threads where everyone who heard it thought is sounded fantastic with the hd800. In the NY spring meet there were even people using the balanced HD800 who said  it was the best they every heard.  So i am not surprised you did noyt like the WA5 especially with the tubes you were using.


----------



## Frank I

magiccabbage said:


> if you had to pick between WA5 and GSXMK2 for HD800 only which would you pick?


 
 I am buying the GSX MK 11 but the WA5 is a step up over the hd800 but the amplifier with the tubes I am using is 4500.00 and should be better and is with a wider soundstage and more air and separation over the GSX Mk11 but that being said if you were looking for an amplifier in the 3K range for the HD800 and wanted  solid state that is at the top of its game the GSX MK11 is near the best I have heard. The Cavalli Liquid Gold is better yet but more expensive. I am writing the review for the GSX and will be finished next week and submitted to Part Time Audiophile so look for the review. I liked the GSX Mk11 enough to want it for reference reviewing and if I did not own the WA5 I could live with this amplifier happily and not look back/.
  
 I now have to very high reference amplifiers to evaluate and do reviews with.  I am using the HD800 with the Moon Black Dragon Cable which is excellent with the setup and the Nordost cables work well in my system. Using all Blue Heaven interconnects and power cords.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Frank sorry to put you on the spot with a stupid question
That you were kind enough to answer 

Anyway I do want to get those better tubes we discussed 
Soon. And justin emailed me regarding the BHSE 
Being now in testing mode. 
As for the offramp and AP1/PP. UNTIL the 
Last 6 months I did use them and now 
Not use most dacs without them. The improvement
Will amaze you. 
But thanks for replying and help in picking out equipment 

Al


----------



## Frank I

Al not stupid question. I did the review on the sennheiser and was the first in the US to get one and review it and my feeling on it were very good. It is an outstanding amplifier with the HD800 . They did a terrific jib with how it just got out of the way. Excellent sounding amplifier for the hd800.
  
 We cna talk more about the tubes in NY in a couple of weeks. I am not lugging the WA5 this time around. i am trying to go light. I am leaning towards taking the Meier Stax to the meet with the macbook. I got about 800 albums on the macbook.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Not expecting you to . And as for tubes I will go on your sa so for sure . Not needing to hear them until they are in my amp . This is how much I trust your judgement . We are both beleavers in our ears as good as they can be. 

Al


----------



## Frank I

Thanks Al.


----------



## Sorrodje

@Fran I:  All feedbacks about the HD800 & Meier Stack pairing will be much appreciated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .  I'm still very interested in the DACCORD and I would like to have some  feedback about this dac compared to some  other reference DAC.


----------



## zeissiez

frank i said:


> I am buying the GSX MK 11 but the WA5 is a step up over the hd800 but the amplifier with the tubes I am using is 4500.00 and should be better and is with a wider soundstage and more air and separation over the GSX Mk11 but that being said if you were looking for an amplifier in the 3K range for the HD800 and wanted  solid state that is at the top of its game the GSX MK11 is near the best I have heard. The Cavalli Liquid Gold is better yet but more expensive. I am writing the review for the GSX and will be finished next week and submitted to Part Time Audiophile so look for the review. I liked the GSX Mk11 enough to want it for reference reviewing and if I did not own the WA5 I could live with this amplifier happily and not look back/.
> 
> I now have to very high reference amplifiers to evaluate and do reviews with.  I am using the HD800 with the Moon Black Dragon Cable which is excellent with the setup and the Nordost cables work well in my system. Using all Blue Heaven interconnects and power cords.



Hi Frank, how would u rate, say in a scale 0-10, the WA5 with stock tubes and WA5 with the upgrade tubes u are having ?


----------



## Frank I

zeissiez said:


> Hi Frank, how would u rate, say in a scale 0-10, the WA5 with stock tubes and WA5 with the upgrade tubes u are having ?


 
 stock tube is like a 4 and with the upgrade tubes a 9 and I only rate it a 9 because I have not tried the other exotic 300B yet


----------



## Frank I

sorrodje said:


> @Fran I:  All feedbacks about the HD800 & Meier Stack pairing will be much appreciated
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I will be using it for the review with the Stack and will include the impressions.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Honestly I never did try the original just the 
Upgraded and what frank has is what I want 
And beyond it. 
Al


----------



## skeptic

To add to the above regarding tube amp pairings for the hd800's: 
  
 Bottlehead's Mainline and the ECP L-2, if you can find one (which is basically derivative of a much earlier parafeed/spud design by the guys at Bottlehead), should be at the top of the list of contenders.  See, e.g., the review of the l-2 on innerfidelity.  To my ears, the Woo lineup is just too slow and tubey for hd800's, and their OTL's in particular, want for dynamics.  (I owned a WA3 for many years and have heard every amp in their lineup. Their OTL's simply do not keep pace with constant current loaded circuits and are bettered by Bottlehead's OTL.  I do have a soft spot for 300b tubes, and the WA5 max w/ HD800 is incredibly immersive with, for example, choral music, but don't expect particularly fast impactful bass.  WA22 is a nice amp but I'd still rank it behind both the Mainline and Zana Deux.)  As to the latter, Zana Deux's are very nice - detailed, lively and fast, as tube amps go, but they can also bring out a little treble edginess.  (Others might weigh in as to whether or not this has been tempered at all in the ZDSE?)  The Mainline has this sort of speed and easy handling of transients, but is a little more refined to my ears, nicely extended, and minus that occasional edginess....such that I no longer felt like the anax mod was an improvement to my HD800's.  I haven't heard the DNA amps, and the BA had a long line at CanJam, but I would love to get to hear these at some point.


----------



## Failed Engineer

If someone wants to go off the beaten path and looking for an OTL, TTVJ has a refurbished Wheatfield HA-2 for $1300.  I heard it with the HD800 once at a meet and was very impressed.  It made me reconsider the HD800 when I had previously given up on it.  I would venture that the only amp less expensive than the HA-2 which will pair in the same range would be the Mainline.  I have the L-2 and it is pure magic with the HD800.  A completely non-fatiguing sound with unbelievable speed and PRaT.  It creates a cohesion of sound with the HD800, tames the treble without sacrificing detail.  It fills out the massive soundstage of the HD800.
  
 I haven't heard the Mainline but it's a sibling of the L-2 so it should pair well.
  
 It sounds so good I may be giving up my Stax rig.
  
 Anyways, someone buy the Wheatfield so I'm not tempted to pick it up.


----------



## BournePerfect

frank i said:


> Al I dont have that Sennheiser amp anymore. It sounded excellent with the HD 800 when I had it and the GSX MK11 is fully balanced and sounds even better with my Oppo BDP105 balanced. I am using the Oppo ESS 9018 Dac mostly now
> 
> *Daniel you never had the  WA5 with the proper tubes in there. *Using the Chinese tubes is a major trade off. My WA5 with the EML 300b, Tungsol Black glass 1942 6F8G and the 596 rectifier is much different than what you used with them. I dont think you ever heard the HD800 with the proper tubes. My WA5 has been to different meets and you can go read those threads where everyone who heard it thought is sounded fantastic with the hd800. In the NY spring meet there were even people using the balanced HD800 who said  it was the best they every heard.  So i am not surprised you did noyt like the WA5 especially with the tubes you were using.


 
  
*No.*
  
 I had plenty of 'proper tubes'. I had not only the stock ones-but also the full upgrade tube package from Woo, including Sophia 300Bs, 274Bs, wartime 6SN7s and more. I rolled everything-and simply was never close to being satisfied. Maybe those weren't the be-all-end-all tubes for the HD800, but seeing as the ZDSE w/ a simple cheap driver tube change absolutely throttled the Woo in terms of speed, prat, bass impact (not bloom), transparency-for MUCH cheaper-it was a no brainer. The WA5LE was sold off. I'm sure it does better with some headphones (especially HE6 and other orthos I presume)-but it was no match with the Zana. To this day I still prefer the ZDSE, Luxman, and BHA-1 to the Woo for the HD800s. For other headphones I couldn't tell you. Glad you're enjoying the Woo though-it seems like it makes you happy-and that's all that really matters.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I have to agree with you. I do not like the woo WA5 with the hd800. But frank does have tubes I do not. But all you just said I have too. But it's not the speed or detail it's just the overall sound. . I cannot say it's speed or detail as the amp is fantastic with the he6. I am just not sure what it is. Bit for the HDVD800 is best anyway with the hd800 

Al


----------



## Frank I

bourneperfect said:


> *No.*
> 
> I had plenty of 'proper tubes'. I had not only the stock ones-but also the full upgrade tube package from Woo, including Sophia 300Bs, 274Bs, wartime 6SN7s and more. I rolled everything-and simply was never close to being satisfied. Maybe those weren't the be-all-end-all tubes for the HD800, but seeing as the ZDSE w/ a simple cheap driver tube change absolutely throttled the Woo in terms of speed, prat, bass impact (not bloom), transparency-for MUCH cheaper-it was a no brainer. The WA5LE was sold off. I'm sure it does better with some headphones (especially HE6 and other orthos I presume)-but it was no match with the Zana. To this day I still prefer the ZDSE, Luxman, and BHA-1 to the Woo for the HD800s. For other headphones I couldn't tell you. Glad you're enjoying the Woo though-it seems like it makes you happy-and that's all that really matters.
> 
> -Daniel


 
 weak link were the sophia 300B and the 274B .   In my opinion Chinese tubes are not in the same league as EML,KR and other 300B plus the Sophia 274 B is terrible. Bright and poor choice for tubes in my listening experience and I had every woo amp here and even the Wa 234 did not sound good withy Sophia tubes but when I swapped them out with the EML300B and Tungsol 6sn7 Black glass plate tubes it was transformed.  Bottom line is you did not like it no big deal, but I do in my system. I know what my amps sound like ands thats why they are here. You liked something different but yet you dont own it any more. If the Zana was so good why is it gone. Kind of confusing. If it was that good why did you sell it? I not even sure you still have the hd800. I seen a pair of those for sale recently. Perhaps the Valli will satisfy you.
  
  
 Dont tell me what my amp sound like with my tubes if you never heard a WA5 with the same tube compliment. I heard the sophia 300B and 274B and they are terrible for the WA5.   I dont use any sophia tubes at all. None. They are rebranded TJ music tubes from China.


----------



## kazsud

I've heard Frank's Wa5 on two occasions and the GSX 2 the same day with the Wa5 and I'd say the Wa5 is two notches better w/ Franks setup.
 The only amp I heard that was better was the Wa234. I felt the Liquid Gold and Stratus (stock tubes first version) weren't as good either. 
  
 Can't comment on Zana or Leben


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I heard them on the 234 twice and I just did not like them on it. Now franks wa5 has tubes no one has so I must buy them. . Woo should be at the meet I will try them with the HE6 and the hd800

Al


----------



## magiccabbage

kazsud said:


> I've heard Frank's Wa5 on two occasions and the GSX 2 the same day with the Wa5 and I'd say the Wa5 is two notches better w/ Franks setup.
> The only amp I heard that was better was the Wa234. I felt the Liquid Gold and Stratus (stock tubes first version) weren't as good either.
> 
> Can't comment on Zana or Leben


 
 How good was the DNA Stratus with stock tubes or can you remember?


----------



## zeissiez

I have done a bit of study the pass two days, most ppl agree that HD800 sounds better with tube amps, and these are the tube amps that known to be well matched with HD800: EC Balancing Act, Zana Deux, WA5, Apex Teton, Apex Peak, Manley 300B, DNA Stratus. Which will give the HD800 speaker-like performance? I mean instead of thin and bright the HD800 tend to sound without EQ, which amp can give a weighty, LCD-like, smooth, close-to-live, musical sound?


----------



## Maxvla

Not sure you can really say they sound better with tube amps. The problem is that there just aren't nearly as many solid state amps in the high end compared to the many tube amps. I know there are some high end tube amps I like less than even midrange solid state amps. It's really a case by case basis, but with the population difference it looks deceptive.


----------



## Mambosenior

zeissiez said:


> Which will give the HD800 speaker-like performance?




A speaker amp!


----------



## Frank I

mean instead of thin and bright the HD800 tend to sound without EQ, which amp can give a weighty, LCD-like, smooth, close-to-live, musical sound?
  
 ​I dont think the Hd800 sound like that on either the GSX Mk 11 or the  E5. It sounds very good on both amps. Where good tube amps differ is in the sound stage and tonality.   300B tubes are full bodied tubes and have a magical midrange. Selection of tubes is most important to get it right but that being said the GSX Mk 11 sound excellent with the HD800 and the liquid Gold Cavalli amp I heard with Scott Hull the other day and we compared to the GSX had a wider sound stage and more air and separation than the GSX . The GSX was a little quieter.  The GSX MK 111 is a terrific amplifier . I really enjoy it with my reference headphones.
  
 I am getting that close to live with either of these two amplifiers.


----------



## magiccabbage

maxvla said:


> Not sure you can really say they sound better with tube amps. The problem is that there just aren't nearly as many solid state amps in the high end compared to the many tube amps. I know there are some high end tube amps I like less than even midrange solid state amps. It's really a case by case basis, but with the population difference it looks deceptive.


 
 very true and something i actually hadn't noticed before. when you go past 2000 dollars there don't seem to be as many solid state options


----------



## Frank I

magiccabbage said:


> very true and something i actually hadn't noticed before. when you go past 2000 dollars there don't seem to be as many solid state options


 
  


magiccabbage said:


> very true and something i actually hadn't noticed before. when you go past 2000 dollars there don't seem to be as many solid state options


 
 There ar emroe coming over 2K . There will be a very interesting 3500.00 solid state amplifier coming soon that Steve Eddy is building. I can wait to hear that amp.


----------



## Maxvla

magiccabbage said:


> very true and something i actually hadn't noticed before. when you go past 2000 dollars there don't seem to be as many solid state options



I may be missing some, but the ones that come to mind are:

Headamp GS-X $2800
Cavalli Liquid Gold $4000 (sale)
Bakoon HPA-21 $3000 (but not designed for HD800 drive)
Luxman P1-u

DIY/Commision
Dynahi 
β22 (though my personal opinion says this is mid-fi)
Krell KS5A clone
SuSy Dynalo


----------



## zeissiez

Frank, thanks for sharing your experience


----------



## BournePerfect

frank i said:


> weak link were the sophia 300B and the 274B .   In my opinion Chinese tubes are not in the same league as EML,KR and other 300B plus the Sophia 274 B is terrible. Bright and poor choice for tubes in my listening experience and I had every woo amp here and even the Wa 234 did not sound good withy Sophia tubes but when I swapped them out with the EML300B and Tungsol 6sn7 Black glass plate tubes it was transformed.  Bottom line is you did not like it no big deal, but I do in my system. I know what my amps sound like ands thats why they are here. You liked something different but yet you dont own it any more. If the Zana was so good why is it gone. Kind of confusing. If it was that good why did you sell it? I not even sure you still have the hd800. I seen a pair of those for sale recently. Perhaps the Valli will satisfy you.
> 
> 
> Dont tell me what my amp sound like with my tubes if you never heard a WA5 with the same tube compliment. I heard the sophia 300B and 274B and they are terrible for the WA5.   I dont use any sophia tubes at all. None. They are rebranded TJ music tubes from China.


 
  
 I never told you what your amp sounds like Frank...where did I say that again???
  
 Yet...
  
 ..._you_ told _me that _I never had proper tubes lol. Pot, kettle, etc. Also-if it takes thousands in tubes to make the WA5LE approach the ballpark of the ZDSE...well, lol. Speaking of which-I sold it to help fund the Leviathan. Not that confusing-and I very well may purchase it again some day. Also-now that you mention the Vali (one 'L' btw)-I would have a hard time picking between that and the WA5LE for the Senns ime. Guess I'm not a fan of 300Bs and the HD800 is what it probably comes down to.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## jibzilla

maxvla said:


> I may be missing some, but the ones that come to mind are:
> 
> Headamp GS-X $2800
> Cavalli Liquid Gold $4000 (sale)
> ...


----------



## skeptic

zeissiez said:


> I have done a bit of study the pass two days, most ppl agree that HD800 sounds better with tube amps, and these are the tube amps that known to be well matched with HD800: EC Balancing Act, Zana Deux, WA5, Apex Teton, Apex Peak, Manley 300B, DNA Stratus. Which will give the HD800 speaker-like performance? I mean instead of thin and bright the HD800 tend to sound without EQ, which amp can give a weighty, LCD-like, smooth, close-to-live, musical sound?


 
  
Zeizziez - these are all amps worth hearing, but I'd also refer you back to my and failed engineer's posts recommending the bottlehead mainline and ecp l-2.  These are two top shelf, seriously well designed highly regulated, constant current fed, single gain stage 6c45pi parafeed tube amps with quality output transformers.  The mainline is very new and the ecp scarce, so not that many folks have heard them yet.   But they fall right in line with the sonic criteria you've mentioned for hd800's: smooth, full and refined, but also very dynamic, with lots of speed, easy handling of transients, tight impactful bass, and zero treble glare.
  
And if you really want to go crazy, you can build your mainline out (or have it built) with teflon coupling caps and/or tantalum resistors in the attenuator circuit.  The caps I'm using, for example, are manufactured for a commercial preamp that runs ~$25k.


maxvla said:


> I may be missing some, but the ones that come to mind are:
> 
> Headamp GS-X $2800
> Cavalli Liquid Gold $4000 (sale)
> ...


 
  
 Add to the DIY list the Krell ksa5 klone and super symmetry Dynalo mk2.


----------



## Maxvla

jibzilla said:


> I think ECP L-2 is a tube amp and the DSHA-1 is the solid state. Solid state/tube Apex Peak/Volcano?



You're right. I was getting them mixed up. The DSHA-1 isn't priced high enough to be on the list.


----------



## olor1n

I haven't listened through the Vali for some time but some of the recent comments on it being overhyped has prompted me to fire it up.
  
 I don't know what y'all are smoking - the Vali makes sweet music with the HD800! I recall someone stating that its presentation is a bit "rough". Ugh, no. You're probably hearing the Vali amplify a turd upstream.
  
 It leaves little to be desired in my system. Tighter and more subterranean bass would probably be it, but I'd still be content if I spent 5 times on the Vali - as is. The fact it's $129 is hilarious.


----------



## zeissiez

skeptic said:


> Zeizziez - these are all amps worth hearing, but I'd also refer you back to my and failed engineer's posts recommending the bottlehead mainline and ecp l-2.  These are two top shelf, seriously well designed highly regulated, constant current fed, single gain stage 6c45pi parafeed tube amps with quality output transformers.  The mainline is very new and the ecp scarce, so not that many folks have heard them yet.   But they fall right in line with the sonic criteria you've mentioned for hd800's: smooth, full and refined, but also very dynamic, with lots of speed, easy handling of transients, tight impactful bass, and zero treble glare.
> 
> And if you really want to go crazy, you can build your mainline out (or have it built) with teflon coupling caps and/or tantalum resistors in the attenuator circuit.  The caps I'm using, for example, are manufactured for a commercial preamp that runs ~$25k.
> 
> Add to the DIY list the Krell ksa5 klone and super symmetry Dynalo mk2.




Skeptic, Thanks for the recommendation, I'll look into Mainline


----------



## TwoEars

Interesting discussion here and I appreciate all the input, I'd never have imagined that the Princess Sophia tubes would be a poor choice for the HD800!
  
 I must wonder however if you're really heard the DNA Sonett 1, 2 or Stratus with the right tubes and given them a fair chance. I fully admit that I haven't heard many of the heavy weights like wa5, balancing act or even Zana Deux that you guys are talking about here. But to me my little balanced sonett 1 is a beautiful thing.
  
 I also believe Mambosenior has done some interesting things with speaker amps and gotten a sound that made him happy....


----------



## jsgraha

olor1n said:


> I haven't listened through the Vali for some time but some of the recent comments on it being overhyped has prompted me to fire it up.
> 
> I don't know what y'all are smoking - the Vali makes sweet music with the HD800! I recall someone stating that its presentation is a bit "rough". Ugh, no. You're probably hearing the Vali amplify a turd upstream.
> 
> It leaves little to be desired in my system. Tighter and more subterranean bass would probably be it, but I'd still be content if I spent 5 times on the Vali - as is. The fact it's $129 is hilarious.


 

  
 Yup, I agree.
 I still have my vali and I don't think I will sell it


----------



## olor1n

I'm a sucker for that DNA baby blue. Want!


----------



## Sorrodje

jsgraha said:


> Yup, I agree.
> I still have my vali and I don't think I will sell it


 
  
 What does your stratus bring to the table in comparison to the Vali.
  
 Seriously what I heard from the Vali/HD800 combo didn't impress me at all. But Maybe my DAC is "turd upstream" as Olr1n suggests. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .. oh wait .. Maybe my ears are crappy too.


----------



## jsgraha

I have stratus for about 2-3 weeks, so I think I'm not that qualify to describe its sound yet.
 In a nutshell, using current tube combo (marconi u52, sophia 2a3), it give deeper and wider soundstage, smoother sound, deeper bass, and more extension on treble (without being harsh with stock hd800). While vali is more intimate (but with deep soundstage), slightly warmer presentation (and slightly more forgiving as well). Both amps are quite fast, although I sense that stratus is faster (I can't stand a slow sound signature)
  
 The downside is stratus need to warm up quite a while (at least 60-90 min).
  
 Source is quite important IMO for both amp (although it may depend on individual preference)
 Before I bought vali, I tried it at local shop with Auralic Vega (fed by Luxman D-06, I think) and hd800, and they sound really good indeed.


----------



## olor1n

Didn't notice you were in Oz jsgraha. That Stratus would be a rare bird here. Were you raped with import duties?


----------



## jsgraha

I believe the first owner did pay a lot in tax, unfortunately.


----------



## preproman

maxvla said:


> I may be missing some, but the ones that come to mind are:
> 
> Headamp GS-X $2800
> Cavalli Liquid Gold $4000 (sale)
> ...


 
  
 Other SS amps to consider - Not sure if they're Hi end or Mid Fi:
  
 Luxman - sure does look good.
 BHA-1 - slowly declining 
 Questyle CMA800R - new and on the rise
 HDVD800 / HDVD600 - lots of mixed reviews..


----------



## Frank I

bourneperfect said:


> I never told you what your amp sounds like Frank...where did I say that again???
> 
> Yet...
> 
> ...


 
  If you think the Zana was that good why did you sell it?  Since your happy with the Vali you may have now found your new reference amplifier. Do you still own the hd800 because I seen it on the FS board. I never used the term Pot Kettle but yes Daniel the tubes you used were not the best tubes in my opinion for the HD800.  My amplifier also drives speakers which was the main reason I decided I wanted it in the first place. It also drives the HE6 and AKG1000.I tried the Sophia and like I said earlier I would never ruse any TJ Full Music tubes as they would not be my choice for the sound I enjoy most. I
  
n my opinion they are not reference quality tubes and even the 1200.00 Royal princess was disappointment and others may like them but I did not.. EML and KR would be my two choices. 300B tubes are expensive and are not for everyone. The tubes I am using added another 1K to the WA5 but I am very satisfied with the outcome. Enjoy your new reference amplifier. I also know if i want i still can get the sound better with some different exotic 300B tubes if I choose to spend more.   I also remember you wanting to sell the 5Le like after a 2 hour listening session.   The amp you had also had to be sent in fro repair by the next owner so perhaps it was a problem with you amp which may have caused you to not like it. Usually it takes me about 200 hrs to just get a handle on the sound before I can really describe what I been hearing and many hours before I can make a summation of what a product can or cannot do. One thing also I did hear the balancing act and enjoyed them amplifier as well. But to get that to reference levels it had over 1K of upgraded tubes in the amplifier as well. Unfortunately anyone wanting to play with SET amplifiers using exotic tubes has to be dearly for the tubes and for many it is well worth the cost of admission. 
  
 As for saying the WA5 is not the right amplifier for the HD800 you may want to say that you simply did not like it and did prefer the Zana which still bewilders me if it was the best amp you owned why do you not own it anymore. Like I said this is all subjective but telling everyone the WA5 is not good with the HD800 was you opinion and many others find the combination excellent.


----------



## magiccabbage

he just said that he sold it to fund the Levi. 
  
 Ye guys should calm down and shake hands, call it a day. 
  
  
 Bourne - did you actually end up ordering the levi?


----------



## kazsud

I didn't the W234 w/ the abbyss and lcd-x or hd800 until the 300bs were put in. Don't remember what tubes was in at first.


----------



## kazsud

magiccabbage said:


> How good was the DNA Stratus with stock tubes or can you remember?



 


It was very good but I wish it had tubes in it that complimented the hd800 more when I heard it.
I had Donald put the stock tubes in at the end of the meet because the ones that were in it didn't impress me and I wanted to hear it stock.


----------



## TwoEars

Well, one thing is for certain. It is very hard to compare amplifiers if you don't know what DAC you're using, what cables you're using, the state of the power in your home, the recording used and your preferences.
  
 An amp by itself, any amp really, is nothing.
  
 It's all about the synergy and what you want to accomplish.


----------



## magiccabbage

twoears said:


> Well, one thing is for certain. It is very hard to compare amplifiers if you don't know what DAC you're using, what cables you're using, the state of the power in your home, the recording used and your preferences.
> 
> An amp by itself, any amp really, is nothing.
> 
> It's all about the synergy and what you want to accomplish.


 
 power in your home? - maybe you could elaborate?


----------



## TwoEars

magiccabbage said:


> power in your home? - maybe you could elaborate?


 
  
 How much your wife is nagging at you.
  
 Preventing you from entering audio zen.
  
 Or maybe I meant something else.


----------



## palmfish

My home is Washington State 120V/60 Hz. It seems to work fine.


----------



## Frank I

twoears said:


> Well, one thing is for certain. It is very hard to compare amplifiers if you don't know what DAC you're using, what cables you're using, the state of the power in your home, the recording used and your preferences.
> 
> An amp by itself, any amp really, is nothing.
> 
> It's all about the synergy and what you want to accomplish.


 
 Exactly. the entire system needs to work in unison. I use all Nordost cables and the Oppo BDP 105 as my main source. The ESS sabre DACs are some of my favorite for the  sound signature I like. All my power Cords are Blue Heaven Nordost as well as every cable in the system, Occasionally I swap out the cables for reviews. More important with many tube amplifier you also need to know what the synergy is with what tubes and proper drivers. You know this well because you use the DNA and have swapped tubes. Sometimes it one tube that can transform the amp and in this case it was many driver to arrive at what brought out the best in the WA5.  The rectifiers made a big difference as well. The great thing about using the HD800 it revals everything in your system and allows me to see exactly what a component is doing as well as wire changes.
  
 There are better  DACs out there as well but the synergy with the system is really so good I have not been looking to make any majopr changes in my system. I added the GSX MK11 so I can have one solid state reference amp as well as the tube amplifier for review purposes.


----------



## BournePerfect

magiccabbage said:


> he just said that he sold it to fund the Levi.
> 
> Ye guys should calm down and shake hands, call it a day.
> 
> ...




Reading comprehension isn't everyone's strong point unfortunately. :/ The Levi isn't quite ready yet, but the Tangoes have been purchased and it's now in the final stages of development. Stay tuned.

-Daniel


----------



## ALRAINBOW

It's way more than just synergy. Although 
I shake me head sometimes how bad a really 
Good amp may sound with the hd&00

But how can we all be of the same opinion 
When the DAC s are mostly different 
And then cables and music choice. 
It's very complex and amazing how it works at all
And last is what we all expect how if should sound
No one here was there when recorded 
Even people here who are musicians 
Are not there to here. Recording of there 
Own music. So it's just try to find common ground
What little there is. I say something is good 
And someone else says no it's not. 
Although there are oblivious posts that are just wrong
Example wa22 with the he6. It's not good 
But the truth is it's not completely wrong either
For some that is the way they want the he6 
To sound. 
Al


----------



## magiccabbage

bourneperfect said:


> Reading comprehension isn't everyone's strong point unfortunately.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 edit


----------



## magiccabbage

magiccabbage said:


> edit


 
 I look forward to hearing back. I think greed is getting one as well - how many are being built? I had heard that only 4 - is there truth to that?


----------



## preproman

magiccabbage said:


> I look forward to hearing back. I think greed is getting one as well - how many are being built? I had heard that only 4 - is there truth to that?


 
  
 No need to look forward for impressions.  I can tell you now.  It's the best amp they've ever heard with the HD800's period.  To much hype for it not to be..


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> No need to look forward for impressions.  I can tell you now.  It's the best amp they've ever heard with the HD800's period.  To much hype for it not to be..


 
 I'm not sure if that's sarcasm or not. Sometimes i cant tell. Have you heard it yourself? Are you a fan of the Levi or Eddie current products?


----------



## preproman

Always picking on Daniel - that's all.  I'm trying to get on the next run for the Balancing Act.  
  
 I don't think a production unit of the Levi is out yet..


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> Always picking on Daniel - that's all.  I'm trying to get on the next run for the Balancing Act.
> 
> I don't think a production unit of the Levi is out yet..


 
 so is the Stratus/HD800 off your list now?


----------



## preproman

Yeah - I just couldn't get past the blue.  Besides, I like the way the BA is designed as well.


----------



## TwoEars

preproman said:


> Yeah - I just couldn't get past the blue.  Besides, I like the way the BA is designed as well.


 
  
 That's funny. I love the blue, love that he's a saab fan and so on.
  
 I also like the look of the Zana Deux - it's "steam-punk-ish".
  
 But for some reason I personally don't like the look of the BA, it's looks too... I don't know. Not as elegant as the DNA or Zana.
  
 That's me personally though. And it might just sound the best so who knows.


----------



## olor1n

alrainbow said:


> It's way more than just synergy. Although
> I shake me head sometimes how bad a really
> Good amp may sound with the hd&00
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm baffled as to why your posts are structured in that manner. Surely that requires more effort than the conventional method? Is Frank I your ghostwriter?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Hahahaha. 

I know I stink at writing. But read it a few times and feel free to ask me for further interpitaion. 

Now if your serious and I am sure your not. , you will learn no important grammer info from me !!!! 

Lmao. If nothing else it is interesting reading 

Al


----------



## purrin

magiccabbage said:


> if you had to pick between WA5 and GSXMK2 for HD800 only which would you pick?


 
  
 I'd go for the WA5 if your primary headphone is the HD800. The GSX2 was a bit too treble etched for me with the HD800s. Although I should mention that many people like the GSX2 / HD800 combination. 
  
 The downside (or upside depending upon how you look at it) with the WA5 is the tube rolling. You've two driver tubes, two output tubes, and then a power supply tube (which does matter quite a bit on this amp). The WA5 needs really good tubes to shine. The WA5 was one the first headamps I heard which really made me appreciate the HD800.


----------



## Maxvla

preproman said:


> Other SS amps to consider - Not sure if they're Hi end or Mid Fi:
> 
> Luxman - sure does look good.
> BHA-1 - slowly declining
> ...



The P1-u meets criteria. The others are lower priced. HDVD800 is only $2000 because the added DAC, not going to include it since you can get the 600 which is the same amp for less.


----------



## purrin

jsgraha said:


> I have stratus for about 2-3 weeks, so I think I'm not that qualify to describe its sound yet.
> In a nutshell, using current tube combo (marconi u52, sophia 2a3), it give deeper and wider soundstage, smoother sound, deeper bass, and more extension on treble (without being harsh with stock hd800). While vali is more intimate (but with deep soundstage), slightly warmer presentation (and slightly more forgiving as well). Both amps are quite fast, although I sense that stratus is faster (I can't stand a slow sound signature)
> 
> The downside is stratus need to warm up quite a while (at least 60-90 min).
> ...


 
  
 Grats on the Stratus! The Sophia 2A3s (and many other Chinese tubes) actually work well on the Stratus. If you want a tighter or more precise sound, especially in the bass, go for the EML 2A3 meshes. I love those on the Stratus.


----------



## Sonido

maxvla said:


> The P1-u meets criteria. The others are lower priced. HDVD800 is only $2000 because the added DAC, not going to include it since you can get the 600 which is the same amp for less.



CMA800R x2 for balanced


----------



## TwoEars

purrin said:


> Grats on the Stratus! The Sophia 2A3s (and many other Chinese tubes) actually work well on the Stratus. If you want a tighter or more precise sound, especially in the bass, go for the EML 2A3 meshes. I love those on the Stratus.


 
  
 Why are all the good tubes always so damn expensive?
  
 One reason to go for the DNA Sonett 2 / Super Seven or even Zana Deux.
  
 Correct my if I'm wrong but I think those are much cheaper to get good tubes for than the Balancing Act / Stratus etc.


----------



## purrin

Heh yeah, but the Sonnet 2 / Super 7 aren't as good as the Stratus / BA. And the Zana Deux is a little "out there", although I do like the sound.
  
 Talking about spending a minor fortune on tubes: http://www.head-fi.org/t/694899/official-2014-socal-head-fi-meet-march-22-2014-westin-south-coast-plaza/675#post_10382444
  
 I didn't have much a choice. Old stock 45 tubes are rare now and I didn't want to chance anything on fleabay.


----------



## TwoEars

purrin said:


> Heh yeah, but the Sonnet 2 / Super 7 aren't as good as the Stratus / BA. And the Zana Deux is a little "out there", although I do like the sound.
> 
> Talking about spending a minor fortune on tubes: http://www.head-fi.org/t/694899/official-2014-socal-head-fi-meet-march-22-2014-westin-south-coast-plaza/675#post_10382444
> 
> I didn't have much a choice. Old stock 45 tubes are rare now and I didn't want to chance anything on fleabay.


 
  
 That's crazy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But while I have you... so in your experience the Zana Deux is the pick of the bunch if one wants to stay with resonably priced tube rolling options?
  
 I believe I've read that it has a rich midrage but still plenty of drive correct?


----------



## magiccabbage

purrin said:


> Heh yeah, but the Sonnet 2 / Super 7 aren't as good as the Stratus / BA. And the Zana Deux is a little "out there", although I do like the sound.
> 
> Talking about spending a minor fortune on tubes: http://www.head-fi.org/t/694899/official-2014-socal-head-fi-meet-march-22-2014-westin-south-coast-plaza/675#post_10382444
> 
> I didn't have much a choice. Old stock 45 tubes are rare now and I didn't want to chance anything on fleabay.


 
 yea i just don't like the look of Eddie current gear. It needs to be ticking all the boxes for that price. They must of left the aesthetics box unchecked on the design sheet.


----------



## lamboy1

hello,
           could someone please tell or show a link for this meet
                                                                                        thanks


----------



## purrin

twoears said:


> That's crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can't say it's the pick of the bunch, but rather it sounds the most different having a certain euphonic presentation which people may or may not like. But it's as you said: Don't need to roll output tubes and only need to worry about the 6SL7, of which there are still plenty good ones at reasonable cost. BTW, for the HD800, I actually think the older ZDs with the soybean oil paper and foil caps sound better (more resolving and smoother in the treble) than the ZDSEs with the Obligatos.
  
 Plenty of drive, but running the ZDSE in low impedance mode will drop the gain, which is something we don't want for inefficient orthos such as the HFMs. The ZD is best with the higher impedance headphones, i.e. from Sennheiser, Beyer Classic 250/300/600 ohm, etc.


----------



## TwoEars

purrin said:


> I can't say it's the pick of the bunch, but rather it sounds the most different having a certain euphonic presentation which people may or may not like. But it's as you said: Don't need to roll output tubes and only need to worry about the 6SL7, of which there are still plenty good ones at reasonable cost. BTW, for the HD800, I actually think the older ZDs with the soybean oil paper and foil caps sound better (more resolving and smoother in the treble) than the ZDSEs with the Obligatos.
> 
> Plenty of drive, but running the ZDSE in low impedance mode will drop the gain, which is something we don't want for inefficient orthos such as the HFMs. The ZD is best with the higher impedance headphones, i.e. from Sennheiser, Beyer Classic 250/300/600 ohm, etc.


 
  
 Thanks!
  
 I might get one if it pops up on the second hand market just to try it out.
  
 Good to know the older ones are no problem and I don't have to go for a SE as well, that's useful information!


----------



## LugBug1

zeissiez said:


> I mean instead of thin and bright the HD800 tend to sound without EQ, which amp can give a *weighty, LCD-like, smooth, close-to-live, musical sound*?


 
  
 I get a similar sound to what you are describing with some 70's vintage amps (did I here someone yawn? Yes thats right! its another vintage rant ) You will not get a sound like that (bolded) with any high-end dedicated amps, as in general the higher end you go - the less colouration. Even attributes such as smoothness can be attributed to a colouring of sorts. The sound should only be smooth if the recording itself is. 
  
 Getting back to a weighty musical sound though, which is how I like my music too. Most good 70's vintage amps were tuned to have a very musical tone. In those days it was more about making the music sound good as opposed to the highest resolution and detail extraction (which of course sounds good if the recording is perfect). The good thing about the HD800's is that they will sound-like whatever you plug them in to. They are a great tool for listening to amps. 
  
 I would recommend trying an SX Pioneer, Technics or 80's NAD with the HD800. I would stay clear of Marantz unless you want a really warm sound. I find them to be a little "all fur coat and no knickers" in the refinement department. 'Fun' yes, but not good enough for the HD800. I was very surprised how the HD800's sounded when I got my first vintage amp (SX550 Pioneer). The bass especially become more prominent. The sound seemed warmer, smoother and more musical as a whole compared to my Audio GD and Matrix amp I had at the time. Also, although the HD800's are very sensitive, they do sound great with lots of power and some of these older machines have enough juice to fuel even the harder to please planars like the HE6 from the headphone out. (apparently. But who am I to argue with the likes of Skylab)
  
 One thing worth mentioning that you don't get however, and this can be a deal breaker depending on what music you listen to. You don't get the completely black backround as you do with lower impedance hp amps. Some vintage amps can have some slight hiss. This is caused from the high impedance output and the sensitivity of the HD800. Some don't, but most aren't completely black.  
  
 Anyways, just some food for thought there and a little change from the usual suspects that get constantly recommended on here. The ones that I wish I could afford!  
  
 I've not paid over $150 for any of my vintage amps. But I know for a fact (subjectively) that most of them sound better than any hp amps that I've tried up to mid end price. And not just for the more warmer musical sound that has been mentioned. I have a couple of very neutral sounding amps, neutral but without any added sparkle that the Senn's like to lay bare with some modern ss amps.
  
 I always compare the HD800 to a clear window. I personally don't think they have emphasized treble these days.. I used to empathise with peeps who were sensitive to the HD800 treble even though it never bothered me. This was when all I owned were a couple of modern low impedance SS hp amps. There is one slight peak at 6khz. This one peak will not give you harshness or sibilance unless; either the recording has this, or your source is coloured in the upper registers. This little peak compensates for the large dip in the upper mids. The dip is ear friendly.
 I find the treble of the Senn's to be analytical but not emphasized. There are loads of high quality hp's out there that have 'harsher', 'harder' (or whatever adjective you care to choose) treble over the HD800.   
  
 I've been using vintage amps for headphones for just under a year now and have no want to go back to hp amps. If I had money to burn then yes of course I would splash out on the best of the best dedicated tube amp. But because of my sound preference for a little warmth and musicality I would still probably use the sound of the 70's.
  
 It's not called the 'golden age' just for nostalgia reasons   
  

  
 and they look ****ing great as well!!


----------



## preproman

magiccabbage said:


> yea i just don't like the look of Eddie current gear. It needs to be ticking all the boxes for that price. They must of left the aesthetics box unchecked on the design sheet.


 
  
  
 The aesthetics box was checked for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As I like the look on "some" of the EC amps.   IMO it's unchecked on the Stratus ha ha ha..  To each is own right...


----------



## jsgraha

purrin said:


> Grats on the Stratus! The Sophia 2A3s (and many other Chinese tubes) actually work well on the Stratus. If you want a tighter or more precise sound, especially in the bass, go for the EML 2A3 meshes. I love those on the Stratus.




Thanks for the recommendation. I'll put the EML tubes on my list to try.


----------



## TwoEars

lugbug1 said:


> One thing worth mentioning that you don't get however, and this can be a deal breaker depending on what music you listen to. You don't get the completely black backround as you do with lower impedance hp amps. Some vintage amps can have some slight hiss. This is caused from the high impedance output and the sensitivity of the HD800. Some don't, but most aren't completely black.


 
  
 Hey LugBug, does that technics amp give you any hiss from the headphone out?
  
 Maybe you could try adding some small resistor into the mix?


----------



## LugBug1

twoears said:


> Hey LugBug, does that technics amp give you any hiss from the headphone out?
> 
> Maybe you could try adding some small resistor into the mix?


 
 A very _very_ slight hiss... It's only noticeable when no music is playing and you listen hard. Still... We all want perfection don't we..  
  
 The only thing I've ever changed in my amps is bulbs... Wouldn't know where to start with resistors :-/ 
  
 If I could remove the slight hiss from this bad boy I'd be the happiest head-fier on head-fi. It's me fave.


----------



## Revogamer

Anyone have much experience with the ALO Studio Six with the HD800's?


----------



## koiloco

revogamer said:


> Anyone have much experience with the ALO Studio Six with the HD800's?


 

 I have listened to it quite a bit with HD800 and HE500/LCD3 at last year Cali meet.  I wasn't blown away or anything but that amp is a beast at driving 4 HPs at the same time and not even sweating.  As far as sound for HD800, I would say it's dead even across the FR, transparent with a veryyyyy light warm tilt, just enough to make the sound intimate and not so lifeless. Details were abundant and well extended. Spacious/3D sound but not too far out, just right.  The HD800 was not harsh in any way driven by the SS.   For HE500, I didn't care for the sound I was getting(nothing bad/negative though).  LCD3 was alright.  Personally, I wouldn't buy the amp for HE500 or LCD3 but I would for my HD800 if my shopping budget is in that range.


----------



## purrin

revogamer said:


> Anyone have much experience with the ALO Studio Six with the HD800's?


 
  
 I've heard it several times. Not a bad amp with the HD800s, but nothing special given the price.


----------



## koiloco

purrin said:


> I've heard it several times. Not a bad amp with the HD800s, *but nothing special given the price.*


 
 I agree with that part 100%.


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> The aesthetics box was checked for me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 yea your dead right - to each his own. From what i gather you like a black finish on your audio gears. 
  
 I love the stratus because it reminds me of a guitar i used to have - a Fender corona, it just has that vintage look that i like.


----------



## Revogamer

What about for LCD-3's? That is my main phone at the moment - but if i could a studio six for a lot cheaper than usual would it be good for both?

 have the Auralic taurus at the moment - better? (if anyone has compared) For both HD800 and LCD3

 Thanks guys


----------



## purrin

I prefer the LCD-3 with good solid-state amplification. In general, tubes amps, even transformer coupled, just don't have the ability to grip the LCD-3 drivers. But I do personally know a quite a few people who liked pairing the Audezes with the Stratus and BA.
  
 However, the Studio Six is not in the same league. But if you can get a deal, why not?


----------



## Revogamer

How would you compare it to the Auralic Taurus (if you have listened to it?)
  
 I could get the Studio Six for cheaper than i could import a stratus (about 20-25% cheaper after customs and freight) - what would you guys say on that?


----------



## purrin

revogamer said:


> How would you compare it to the Auralic Taurus (if you have listened to it?)


 

  
 Haven't heard the Taurus so I cannot say.
  


revogamer said:


> I could get the Studio Six for cheaper than i could import a stratus (about 20-25% cheaper after customs and freight) - what would you guys say on that?


 
  
 I would say that you are looking for a reason to get the Studio Six, and that you will probably get it.


----------



## zeissiez

Has anyone experienced the Apex Teton with HD800?


----------



## Frank I

I heard it at the RMAF and it was very good with the hd800. Pricey amp but sounded very good. I will be hearing it again in NY in a couple if weeks at the meet.


----------



## zeissiez

If it sounds close to EC BA or Stratus, I would prefer it over these balanced amps, as the balance cable for HD800 costs a fortune, and on top of that I can simply plug another headphones to it.


----------



## Frank I

It sounded very good but cant say it is bette or not. Best bet for you is try to source a meet out with one and take a listen


----------



## Maxvla

Wait a sec.. A Teton is $5000. A Stratus is $2700 and a ECBA is $3850. That's some expensive cabling if the Teton comes out cheaper.


----------



## Revogamer

purrin said:


> Haven't heard the Taurus so I cannot say.
> 
> 
> I would say that you are looking for a reason to get the Studio Six, and that you will probably get it.


 
 You are right 

 I will demo it myself and let my ears decide...


----------



## drez

zeissiez said:


> If it sounds close to EC BA or Stratus, I would prefer it over these balanced amps, as the balance cable for HD800 costs a fortune, and on top of that I can simply plug another headphones to it.


 
  
 Balanced cabling for the HD800 need not cost more than $200...


----------



## zeissiez

maxvla said:


> Wait a sec.. A Teton is $5000. A Stratus is $2700 and a ECBA is $3850. That's some expensive cabling if the Teton comes out cheaper.



LOL, ok you do better math than me.


----------



## koiloco

revogamer said:


> You are right
> 
> I will demo it myself and let my ears decide...


 

 That's the spirit.


----------



## TwoEars

lugbug1 said:


> A very _very_ slight hiss... It's only noticeable when no music is playing and you listen hard. Still... We all want perfection don't we..
> 
> The only thing I've ever changed in my amps is bulbs... Wouldn't know where to start with resistors :-/
> 
> If I could remove the slight hiss from this bad boy I'd be the happiest head-fier on head-fi. It's me fave.


 
  
 Well, the first thing to check is if it's the power in your home or the reciever. You could try switching off all the electric equipment in your home (including fridge and freezer!) and also moving it around to different sockets and see if the problem still persists.
  
 But if it's the reciever that's causing it you could try adding a small resistor in series to the headphone and see if that helps. Somthing along the lines of a 50 ohm resistor out to do it. It's quite easy to experiment if you've got a soldering iron and a few bits and pieces laying around. You could make an adapter that you could change the resistor on and see how it sounds. If you add too much resistance the sound signature will get dark and the bass will get muddy but a small resistor like 50 ohm should have negligible effect on the sound quality but hopefully remove any hiss.
  
 I'm sure there are some threads on the subject somewhere.
  
 But I don't know how handy you are with DIY stuff.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

There is a thread on this at speaker amps for headphones. And the hiss is in the preamp Nd amp . It most likely has to do with the high gain it has. And 50 ohms seems high. Try about 10 or 15 ohms. 10 watt wire wound resister. 

Mouse electronics is one source. Also if it is low leave it. If the sound is really good and you do not hear the hiss when music is playing why mess with it. Adding resisters is fine but not worth the effort if it's a solid state amp. 

Now if the amp is very loud at a min volume then the resister is a good idea. 

Just giving you some ideas and wiggle room to try it or not .

Al


----------



## LugBug1

twoears said:


>


 
  
  


alrainbow said:


>


 
 Thanks for the advice guys. I think I'm just going to leave it... Seriously, the sound is that good I don't want to risk messing with the flavour at all. Hey, whats a little hiss. I'm just not going to use it for classical. The hiss is only with the HD800's. Why do they have to be so bloody sensitive!!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

It'd the price for the details we pay. Also not the headphones fault it's the bloody amp LOL. 

Al


----------



## LugBug1

Too right.. Never the headphones fault.


----------



## J-Pak

Does anyone know how common it is to see ColorWare HD800's refurbished from a dealer? On a Youtube video someone received one of those black and sky blue ring (special edition?) HD800s refurbed from Crutchfield.


----------



## tomlink

I recently performed the latest "Anaxilus" HD800 mod and removed it after about two weeks. IMHO, it just sort of dulled the sound and seems to slightly collapse the soundstage for me. I'm sure I'm in the minority but I seem to get a better response via EQ. Anyone else seeing the same results?
  
 Using iMac/iTunesWAV>Pure Music>Mytek Stereo 192 DAC>WA22>HD800


----------



## kaesar94

tomlink said:


> I recently performed the latest "Anaxilus" HD800 mod and removed it after about two weeks. IMHO, it just sort of dulled the sound and seems to slightly collapse the soundstage for me. I'm sure I'm in the minority but I seem to get a better response via EQ. Anyone else seeing the same results?
> 
> Using iMac/iTunesWAV>Pure Music>Mytek Stereo 192 DAC>WA22>HD800




I've tried too. In my opinion the Anaxilus mod, if well made, can reduce the piercing nature of the HD800, but i believe it mantains the sligtly bright signature of the headphone. IMHO the soundstage was the same. No changes in that sense. 

We're talking about 1% improvement, but it's an improvement overall.

This is my experience.


----------



## preproman

tomlink said:


> I recently performed the latest "Anaxilus" HD800 mod and removed it after about two weeks. I*MHO, it just sort of dulled the sound and seems to slightly collapse the soundstage for me*. I'm sure I'm in the minority but I seem to get a better response via EQ. Anyone else seeing the same results?
> 
> Using iMac/iTunesWAV>Pure Music>Mytek Stereo 192 DAC>WA22>HD800


 
 Same for me..


----------



## A2029

tomlink said:


> I recently performed the latest "Anaxilus" HD800 mod and removed it after about two weeks. IMHO, it just sort of dulled the sound and seems to slightly collapse the soundstage for me. I'm sure I'm in the minority but I seem to get a better response via EQ. Anyone else seeing the same results?
> 
> Using iMac/iTunesWAV>Pure Music>Mytek Stereo 192 DAC>WA22>HD800


 
  
 +1


----------



## koiloco

tomlink said:


> I recently performed the latest "Anaxilus" HD800 mod and removed it after about two weeks. IMHO, it just sort of dulled the sound and seems to slightly collapse the soundstage for me. I'm sure I'm in the minority but I seem to get a better response via EQ. Anyone else seeing the same results?
> 
> Using iMac/iTunesWAV>Pure Music>Mytek Stereo 192 DAC>WA22>HD800


 

 +1 what tubes r u running on your WA22?


----------



## TwoEars

Looking at some other forums on the web it seems several seasoned HD800 owners are favoring the Anax mod v2.0 over the latest v2.5.
  
 The complaints of the 2.5 version are just what you're describing, and they seem to think the 2.0 version is a better compromise.
  
 Something to ponder...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I really not a fan of headphone mods. 
Not against just not for me. 
I would rather play with a little EQ first 
So -db is sometimes better than adding. 

As for the person with the MyTek 
I have that DAC. The presentation glares a bit 
Due to it being a close presentation. 
So aittle EQ can help. 
Also desabled the volume in the menu 
And use the VC in the woo WA 22. 
It is a great amp. 
Are you useing fully BAL. ??
Al


----------



## tomlink

koiloco said:


> +1 what tubes r u running on your WA22?


 

 Stock tubes. Not sure if I am going to tube roll or sell the WA22. I find I am using my portable system almost exclusively now.


----------



## tomlink

alrainbow said:


> I really not a fan of headphone mods.
> Not against just not for me.
> I would rather play with a little EQ first
> So -db is sometimes better than adding.
> ...


 
 I really dig the Mytek 192 - volume is disabled for cleanest signal path. Very precise with the HD800. The Mytek is driving the WA22 balanced and I have JE Audio Designs balanced cables for the HD800. IMHO, I'd rather not re-engineer the HD 800, I'd rather EQ the sound. Like I do with my home audio. But I do give props to the guys evolving the mods. Cool efforts.


----------



## tomlink

drez said:


> Balanced cabling for the HD800 need not cost more than $200...


 

 Check out JE Audio Designs. Great job and price on my HD800 balanced cables.
  
 http://jeaudiodesigns.wix.com/jeaudiodesigns


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Nice cables. And yes I agree to the mod people. Maybe it's just my age LOL. I look at it that sennheiser is not hifiman or audeze . They are a very large company that has more funds to develope products then almost any company I can think of. So I am sure there was consessions made when designing them. And i would rather EQ then mod.

Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Really cool cables. May bias how much ? And do you have apic of what you have ?

Al


----------



## skeptic

Al - just FYI, the theory behind the "mod" wasn't just about altering frequency response.  The modders in this instance used CSD plots to measure resonant frequencies and found that there was some fairly minimal ringing associated with 6khz area.  So the thinking was to tame perceived FR by adding some damping material to the cup that would not obscure the driver but would reduce the ringing.  See: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod
  
 I used the 1.0 mod off and on for a while with prior amps but found it unnecessary, and the hd800's better sounding without, when I completed my mainline.  That said, I'd encourage everyone to give it a try.  It is a pretty quick and easy process to cut some foam and felt circles and stuff them under your dust covers.  Once made, it takes about 20 seconds to put them in or take them out.
  
 Mr. Speakers actually just released a commercial die-cut mod kit for the alpha dogs which help eliminate minor peaks in the FR.  Just like with the anax mod, there are arguable pros and cons to the change in sound signature, but getting to test it out yourself is fun, and a whole lot cheaper than rolling tubes.


----------



## Stapsy

I have been off and on with the slightly more involved 2.0 mod.  Your system, preferences and the music you listen to will determine how valuable it is to you.  I will say it is kind of finicky to perform the mod.  I have done some testing on slight changes in ring size and placement but haven't quite settled on anything.  I am back to stock right now to try to get a better perspective on the effects of the mod.


----------



## purrin

Best to experiment. For the 2.0 mods, I would try with and without the Creatology foam rings (I would leave the back piece in place.) Maybe try different thicknesses of rug liner or locate the rug liner in different places. Everyone is going to have different preferences. Some people like the rug liner because it checks the HD800's overly diffuse imaging. Other's don't like this effect. Some people use the larger rings for more bass, others don't like this.
  
 Digital parametric EQ is another option. A -3db notch around 6kHz and maybe another -3db treble shelf can do wonders. Although if we spin vinyl, we may have to resort to the Anax mods.


----------



## punit

tomlink said:


> Stock tubes. Not sure if I am going to tube roll or sell the WA22. I find I am using my portable system almost exclusively now.


 

 The combination with the WA22 is the best that I have heard HD 800 sound (also the T1 & TH 900, but the improvement was the most in the HD 800) I always had this nagging feeling that the HD 800 was capable of much more when I used to listen to them on my previous amps (please see my profile), it is not there anymore. I am sure further improvement may be possible with even better amps but I am content with the sound now. It has the right balance of Clarity / Details & Musicality for me. HD 800 were my fav cans before by a very slight margin (I used to swing between T1 & HD 800 depending on certain factors), but after WA22 the gap between T1 & HD 800 has widened by a significant margin. The tubes I am using are about half the cost of the amp (GEC 6AS7G + Philips GZ34 Metal base + TS BGRP 6F8G). But to get to this point  the amount that I have spent on trying various tubes was more than the cost of the amp, but no complaints, it was a fascinating journey. & the tubes that I have collected allow me to tailor the sound of the amp to suit each HP I have, as what works best for HD 800 does not work best for others.
  
 Now that the tubes are sorted , have ordered Toxic Cables Silver Poison & Double Helix Molecule "Peptide Hybrid"  silver-copper cables (both balanced). Will see if it makes a difference. Don't know when this goddam tweaking itch will be satisfied


----------



## MIKELAP

punit said:


> The combination with the WA22 is the best that I have heard HD 800 sound (also the T1 & TH 900, but the improvement was the most in the HD 800) I always had this nagging feeling that the HD 800 was capable of much more when I used to listen to them on my previous amps (please see my profile), it is not there anymore. I am sure further improvement may be possible with even better amps but I am content with the sound now. It has the right balance of Clarity / Details & Musicality for me. HD 800 were my fav cans before by a very slight margin (I used to swing between T1 & HD 800 depending on certain factors), but after WA22 the gap between T1 & HD 800 has widened by a significant margin. The tubes I am using are about half the cost of the amp (GEC 6AS7G + Philips GZ34 Metal base + TS BGRP 6F8G). But to get to this point  the amount that I have spent on trying various tubes was more than the cost of the amp, but no complaints, it was a fascinating journey. & the tubes that I have collected allow me to tailor the sound of the amp to suit each HP I have, as what works best for HD 800 does not work best for others.
> 
> Now that the tubes are sorted , have ordered Toxic Cables Silver Poison & Double Helix Molecule "Peptide Hybrid"  silver-copper cables (both balanced). Will see if it makes a difference. Don't know when this goddam tweaking itch will be satisfied


----------



## tomlink

purrin said:


> Best to experiment. For the 2.0 mods, I would try with and without the Creatology foam rings (I would leave the back piece in place.) Maybe try different thicknesses of rug liner or locate the rug liner in different places. Everyone is going to have different preferences. Some people like the rug liner because it checks the HD800's overly diffuse imaging. Other's don't like this effect. Some people use the larger rings for more bass, others don't like this.
> 
> Digital parametric EQ is another option. A -3db notch around 6kHz and maybe another -3db treble shelf can do wonders. Although if we spin vinyl, we may have to resort to the Anax mods.


 

 Purrin,
  
 Thanks for the EQ suggestions. What was the Q of the notch? Are you starting the -3dB HF shelf at the 6kHz point?  
  
 I originally did the 2.0 mod with the Creatology foam and rug liner. Are you saying to experiment with just the foam to start? Previously, I mentioned my experience with the mod, but I just cant leave well enough alone.


----------



## TwoEars

punit said:


> The combination with the WA22 is the best that I have heard HD 800 sound (also the T1 & TH 900, but the improvement was the most in the HD 800) I always had this nagging feeling that the HD 800 was capable of much more when I used to listen to them on my previous amps (please see my profile), it is not there anymore. I am sure further improvement may be possible with even better amps but I am content with the sound now. It has the right balance of Clarity / Details & Musicality for me. HD 800 were my fav cans before by a very slight margin (I used to swing between T1 & HD 800 depending on certain factors), but after WA22 the gap between T1 & HD 800 has widened by a significant margin. The tubes I am using are about half the cost of the amp (GEC 6AS7G + Philips GZ34 Metal base + TS BGRP 6F8G). But to get to this point  the amount that I have spent on trying various tubes was more than the cost of the amp, but no complaints, it was a fascinating journey. & the tubes that I have collected allow me to tailor the sound of the amp to suit each HP I have, as what works best for HD 800 does not work best for others.
> 
> Now that the tubes are sorted , have ordered Toxic Cables Silver Poison & Double Helix Molecule "Peptide Hybrid"  silver-copper cables (both balanced). Will see if it makes a difference. Don't know when this goddam tweaking itch will be satisfied


 
  
 If you can change the order to be pure copper I would recommend that, I personally think it works better.


----------



## punit

twoears said:


> If you can change the order to be pure copper I would recommend that, I personally think it works better.


 
 The reason I ordered Silver is that I have preferred Silver cables over Copper in my system, when I did a comparison earlier, gives better top end extension, I do not like overly warm sound. Guess I am Treble head  or the Treble on the WA22 is so good that I want more of it


----------



## icebear

purrin said:


> Best to experiment. For the 2.0 mods, I would try with and without the Creatology foam rings (I would leave the back piece in place.) Maybe try different thicknesses of rug liner or locate the rug liner in different places. Everyone is going to have different preferences. *Some people like the rug liner because it checks the HD800's overly diffuse imaging.* Other's don't like this effect. Some people use the larger rings for more bass, others don't like this.
> 
> Digital parametric EQ is another option. A -3db notch around 6kHz and maybe another -3db treble shelf can do wonders. Although if we spin vinyl, we may have to resort to the Anax mods.


 
  
 I have heard or read all things negative or issues that people are complaining about the HD800 but "diffuse imaging" is a first ).
  
 If someone like Tyll here :
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-0
 with top end test set up comes to the conclusion that the HD800 bests even the Stax SR-009 in terms of imaging, then "diffuse imaging" might have other reasons than the headphone. Maybe mixed up phase in a cable or somewhere else in the set up?


----------



## koiloco

icebear said:


> I have heard or read all things negative or issues that people are complaining about the HD800 but "diffuse imaging" is a first ).
> 
> If someone like Tyll here :
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-0
> with top end test set up comes to the conclusion that the HD800 bests even the Stax SR-009 in terms of imaging, then "diffuse imaging" might have other reasons than the headphone. Maybe mixed up phase in a cable or somewhere else in the set up?


 

 It could be imagination of problems so one could play around with modding and further improve a problem which might not exist.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We hear differently anyway so I guess we can again say that it's all subjective.  Certain issues such as ringing and frequency spike could certainly be measured somewhat objectively but when it comes to imaging, it's quite far out there.  But don't forget that Purrin has golden ears.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Regarding headphones and measurements 

That is a complex notion and general info at best. 
And overall something some must have to feel good about a purchase
Or mod. Now given sennheiser has far more methods
And equipment and overall understanding 
How we hear to begin with. 
Example. 
LCD line of headphones they all show the same 
Freq response curves. But they sound very different
And I do not need to be a golden ear or where bad 
Flashy shirts for people to know it's me again
Telling me what sounds good. 
I like all reviews even the ones I do not agree with. 
But I want to be the judge as to what I like. 

So in the end. Play and enjoy the game of modding
This is a hobby. But try not to spout facts as religious 
Gospel 

Al. 3/25. Hahahaha


----------



## koiloco

alrainbow said:


> Regarding headphones and measurements
> 
> That is a complex notion and general info at best.
> And overall something some must have to feel good about a purchase
> ...


 
 Well said there, Al. 
 Even though I know well that it's just people's personal subjective opinion, it still cracks me up when people point out a "problem" with such authority.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Thanks


----------



## icebear

koiloco said:


> It could be imagination of problems so one could play around with modding and further improve a problem which might not exist.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 As a newbie you learn everyday ).


----------



## Stapsy

Imaging is definitely improved to me with the Anax mod 2.0.  I think part of the reason why it sounds like the mod closes in the soundstage is that the slightly diffuse imaging can give the illusion of being in a concert hall. Just because imaging is already a strength of the HD800 doesn't mean it can't be improved.  In my experience it is something about the metal mesh used in the cups that causes the diffuseness.  Take out the dust cover's and you will notice how diffuse the image sounds.  This isn't a slight on anyone, but if your system doesn't image well in the first place the improvement may not be that noticeable. One way isn't better or worse, some prefer the open sound with the more diffuse imaging and others would sacrifice a little bit of space to improve imaging.
  
 To assume that Sennheiser knows best because they have more money and technology is kind of silly.  Look at how Jerg's HE500 mods have been implemented by Hifiman in the 560.  If you don't like the change in sound that is fine, but to justify it by saying Sennheiser knows best because it is their product doesn't make sense to me.
  
 I tend to trust my own ears and not worry about what a manufacturer might have intended...especially one that is capable of producing the HD700


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Hahahaha It amazes me how people think 
Not that you disagree but the basis for the disagreement 
Do you think that the research on your car tires did not matter either
As you know how the car should stop 

Check out my advertar it's for you 

Al


----------



## skeptic

At the end of the day, subjective enjoyment is clearly what matters most, but I disagree with the characterization that measurements are "general info at best."
  
 If you search back to the original hd800 appreciation thread (yup - some of us have been having this same conversation for that many years!), there was a discussion involving a Sennheiser rep regarding the patented plastic that Sennheiser developed for the hd800 cups, to go along with the ring drivers, with the specific intent of eliminating resonances and ringing.  In response to critical questions over the choice to use plastic in a flagship product, Sennheiser emphasized that this was the best available material and criticized manufacturers of wood cups, for example, for selecting a material that looked pretty but was very prone to resonance issues.
  
 Given the context, I find it fascinating and awesome that members (and former members) of this community went on to measure and identify minor resonance issues, presumably due to the mesh rather than the plastic, as a likely cause of the lone aberration in the hd800's FR curve.  Moreover, based on these findings, they developed, tested and ultimately published a clever solution to this issue in the form of a totally reversible mod, using cheap and widely available foam and felt which, for the most part, preserves the pleasing aspects of the hd800's sonics.
  
 Whether you ultimately prefer the modded hd800 or not (and recall that I personally reverted to stock, but only ever tried the 1.0 mod), these guys deserve serious recognition and a tip of the hat for their time and efforts at raising the bar - both sonically and in terms of fostering increased community understanding regarding why we are all hearing what we are hearing.


----------



## BournePerfect

I'm glad that I'm such a good rhymer
 Better than being a social climber
 Just because I'm a bit brighter
 Than some screwing writer
  
 *purrs*


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Maybe my statement was insulting 
So I take back my intent if that was indicated. 
But my reasoning for the start stands on the fact it is done 
Under what circumstance. Not saying there are not some really clever people here 
And I am not one of them. But I simply feel mods 
And offerings of what they will do are just 
Fair to committing as facts. Many people here go crazy trying 
Make there investment sound it's best and mods as good as some are
Do not represent the design intension. 
So mod on its fun but better DAC or amps 
Will get you much further into euphoric 
Musicality 

As for sennheiser and making there own plastic
For audio purposes that statement alone should say leave it alone 
Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Now ur a rap Starr Lmao 

Can someone post a link to the mod 2 that is being posted here 
Al


----------



## Sonido

I need to start posting in haikus.


----------



## skeptic

For better or worse, head-fi has a policy against direct links to certain other sites, but if you google "anax mod 2.0" it should be the first link.


----------



## Stapsy

Al I am not saying I don't appreciate the engineering that has gone into the HD800.  I think it is quite remarkable.  However I will say that I am able to form my own opinion on the other design merits and limitations of the HD800 
  
 We are really talking about semantics here.  If you want to put your faith in a manufacturer to produce a perfect product then kudos to you.  However I do think it is funny that the OR5 I have seen you mention is essentially just a modified OEM hiface.  M2Tech is a much bigger company then Emprirical Audio, yet Steve has managed to squeeze an unbelievable amount of performance out of what is basically an obsolete technology.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

No hands down you have made your point. I ahve to agree with your view. Maybe in general I am not into modes so maybe some prejudice is involved on my behalf and that is never a good way to judge. 

And that offramp is a must have to try. So I loose .lol 

Al


----------



## Stapsy

To be honest I am not a big fan of modding either, however the "mod" is more along the lines of acoustic tuning of the ear cups.
  
 Unfortunately no links are available.  Just find Purrin's fan club and you will be able get more information


----------



## Eee Pee

stapsy said:


> Unfortunately no links are available.


 
  





  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/577530/hd800-anaxilus-mod


----------



## skeptic

^way outdated.  Anax got banned, and the discussion of successive iterations of the mod now occur elsewhere.


----------



## purrin

_*In regards to the "diffuse imaging" issue of the HD800*_, no one is making this up or creating an issue which doesn't exist. I think Staps pretty much summed it up, but I will explain more. And no I'm not that stupid or deaf as to hook up the HD800 out phase. Please read carefully.
  
 The diffuse imaging issue has been mentioned by other people in the past. It's not anything new. The effect I am describing is not any different from having a flat screen TV smack the the middle of your speakers or having open baffle speakers located too close to the wall where we get some early reflections which muck up the imaging or create an overly diffuse sound. Let's think about the HD800 design. It's basically a driver suspended in air with a cage and the mesh screen. Unfortunately, the mesh screen isn't totally acoustically transparent, which means it acts similarly (but not nearly as bad) as the TV flat screen or wall in the aforementioned examples.
  
 As Staps said, covering the mesh with rug or shelf liner, which absorbs these early reflections better, also results in a narrowing of the stereo image. Some people like this. Some people don't. IMO, it does help with more precise location of instruments. And I do prefer it because the stage width is set more realistically rather than being unrealistically super wide.
  
 Now in terms of the 6kHz peak which adds that bit of hardness or sometimes glare to the treble, I believe Arnaud did some cup simulations of the HD800 a few years ago which confirmed this behavior. At that point, I was unsure if the cup was the primary culprit, i.e., I still felt the driver may have had something to do with it. A few years later, Anax and I masked out the effect of the cup and took a few measurements. I am now totally convinced the 6kHz peak is caused by the cup design. (Which means Sennheiser really did something amazing with the HD800 driver.) Although I have to say the HD800 is still bright.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

That's is a very good expLanation. Thanks. 

As for the brightness. The little I can tell is you cannot have great detail and staging and it not having a brighter presentation. As the LCD 3 is not nearly as bright but truly lacks all the staging and details of the hd800. And the HE6 is in the middle between them. Pick your potion or poison. 

Al


----------



## koiloco

or the question is how flat is the measuring equipments?  Does anyone ever wonder about that?  I do all the times.  
 I spent a little too much $ on condenser mic for recording back in the days.  That's why I have to ask the question.


----------



## purrin

alrainbow said:


> As for the brightness. The little I can tell is you cannot have great detail and staging and it not having a brighter presentation. As the LCD 3 is not nearly as bright but truly lacks all the staging and details of the hd800. And the HE6 is in the middle between them.


 
  
 I believe there is a middle ground. The LCD-3 is just way too laid back. The HE-6 is indeed somewhere in between, but it does have some issues with "etch". The HE-6 is fast sounding, but like most other orthos, not very resolving. The LCD-3, if you can hear past its laid back nature, is actually more resolving than the HE-6. The HFM's take a brute force approach with big magnets and coarse traces on the diaphragm. The Audezes have very fine traces on the diaphragm which results in better efficiency and better ability to reproduce micro details.
  
 Dynamic driver technology tends to be more resolving than planar. It's really just a matter of Sennheiser making a headphone with the HD800's resolving capabilities which isn't as bright. The Anax modded HD800 or HD800 with EQ sound just as resolving to me, but without pain when used with rock or popular music recordings. The reason classical or natural instrument recordings tends to be fine with the HD800 is that they are much more bandwidth limited. One can even argue that the HD800s brightness works in favor of recordings which are bandwidth limited in the treble.
  
 Moar treble is like bad photoshop sharpening on a 640x480 image (assuming low resolution). Moar resolving is like 6000x4000 image from a good camera/lens. 
  


koiloco said:


> or the question is how flat is the measuring equipments?  Does anyone ever wonder about that?  I do all the times.


 
  
 The best approach relies on a combination of ear training and experience (particularly studio / pro, building amps or speakers) and measurements to confirm and keep us honest. There's much more to sound than measurements. But measurements are one of the basic tools. The trained ear should be the final decider.


----------



## koiloco

purrin said:


> I believe there is a middle ground. The LCD-3 is just way too laid back. The HE-6 is indeed somewhere in between, but it does have some issues with "etch". The HE-6 is fast sounding, but like most other orthos, not very resolving. The LCD-3, if you can hear past its laid back nature, is actually more resolving than the HE-6. The HFM's take a brute force approach with big magnets and coarse traces on the diaphragm. The Audezes have very fine traces on the diaphragm which results in better efficiency and better ability to reproduce micro details.
> 
> Dynamic driver technology tends to be more resolving than planar. It's really just a matter of Sennheiser making a headphone with the HD800's resolving capabilities which isn't as bright. The Anax modded HD800 or HD800 with EQ sound just as resolving to me, but without pain when used with rock or popular music recordings. The reason classical or natural instrument recordings tends to be fine with the HD800 is that they are much more bandwidth limited. One can even argue that the HD800s brightness works in favor of recordings which are bandwidth limited in the treble.
> 
> ...


 
 +1 well said.  I used to compare expensive Neuman mics to modded ones that cost thousands of dollar less and were very shocked to find out how comparable these mics were.


----------



## Maxvla

purrin said:


> The diffuse imaging issue has been mentioned by other people in the past. It's not anything new. The effect I am describing is not any different from having a flat screen TV smack the the middle of your speakers or having open baffle speakers located too close to the wall where we get some early reflections which muck up the imaging or create an overly diffuse sound. Let's think about the HD800 design. It's basically a driver suspended in air with a cage and the mesh screen. Unfortunately, the mesh screen isn't totally acoustically transparent, which means it acts similarly (but not nearly as bad) as the TV flat screen or wall in the aforementioned examples.



So would the HD800 be better off without the screen? Obviously it would be more fragile, but just looking at it from a sonic standpoint.


----------



## purrin

Would probably lose bass without the screen.


----------



## Chodi

stapsy said:


> Al I am not saying I don't appreciate the engineering that has gone into the HD800.  I think it is quite remarkable.  However I will say that I am able to form my own opinion on the other design merits and limitations of the HD800
> 
> We are really talking about semantics here.  If you want to put your faith in a manufacturer to produce a perfect product then kudos to you.  However I do think it is funny that the OR5 I have seen you mention is essentially just a modified OEM hiface.  M2Tech is a much bigger company then Emprirical Audio, yet *Steve has managed to squeeze an unbelievable amount of performance out of what is basically an obsolete technology.*


 
 What makes you say that this is obsolete technology? I don't see anything obsolete about it. Please expand.


----------



## 62ohm

Has anyone ever tried the HD800 with Leckerton UHA-6S Mk.2?


----------



## purrin

chodi said:


> What makes you say that this is obsolete technology? I don't see anything obsolete about it. Please expand.


 
  
 I think he meant to say the M2Tech is rather ho-hum, entry level, or often passed over by audiophiles who want much higher performance. Also, consider the context of Staps reply to AL regarding the application of mods. The OR5 is really a highly modded M2Tech. Staps was simply pointing out that mods can be a legitimate way to obtain better performance - that there can always be ways to improve, or at least tailor or customize even the most well engineered products to one's personal tastes.


----------



## Stapsy

Hmm


purrin said:


> Would probably lose bass without the screen.


 
  
 So something that creates pressure for the bass yet controls reflections?   Perhaps what you really need is expanded earcups like the R10 to move the open baffle away from the wall.
  
  


chodi said:


> What makes you say that this is obsolete technology? I don't see anything obsolete about it. Please expand.


 
  
 The measurements and performance from hiface stuff is not that great when compared with other USB audio solutions.  Perhaps I could have been more clear but, it was kind of a flippant comment based on my discussion with Al.


----------



## purrin

stapsy said:


> So something that creates pressure for the bass yet controls reflections?   Perhaps what you really need is expanded earcups like the R10 to move the open baffle away from the wall.


 
  
 The secret to the R10 is not the drivers. It's the cups.


----------



## Golfnutz

stapsy said:


> Hmm
> 
> So something that creates pressure for the bass yet controls reflections?   Perhaps what you really need is expanded earcups like the R10 to move the open baffle away from the wall.
> 
> ...


 

 I thought the M2Tech USB solution was suppose to be half decent (based on Elberoth's shootout of 15 USB interfaces).


----------



## Mambosenior

It's more than decent! A great product for many that are not in the market for that extra 5% of uber fidelity. Beyond a certain "uber" point of hearing perception, spending money on uber DACs or related digital products is basically pissing money away (and I have done a lot of the latter over the years). 

(Uber and out.)


----------



## icebear

purrin said:


> ...
> Dynamic driver technology tends to be more resolving than planar. It's really just a matter of Sennheiser making a headphone with the HD800's resolving capabilities which isn't as bright. The Anax modded HD800 or HD800 with EQ sound just as resolving to me, but without pain when used with rock or popular music recordings.* The reason classical or natural instrument recordings tends to be fine with the HD800 is that they are much more bandwidth limited.* One can even argue that the HD800s brightness works in favor of recordings which are bandwidth limited in the treble.
> ...


 
  
 Obviously preferences for musical taste are different and no one is right or wrong but to decide if a headphone reproduces a sound as close as possible to the original (to the highest fidelity), my personal reference is the comparison to acoustic instruments and voices. Where is the bandwidth limitation between the lowest registers of a church organ and the highest notes on a violin ? Sorry I don't get the point here.
  
 With an electric guitar or a synthesizer you are hearing the sound of the amp and speaker and not directly the sound of the instrument in the first place.
 Rock and pop music are already working with amps and effects to make it more interesting / exciting. Most often it is mixed to sound great on "budget" (teenage budget) equipment and not on high end speakers or headphones. To take such a source material as example that the HD800 w/o mod or EQ is painful doesn't make too much sense to me. If your favorite style of music needs the HD800 to be modded or EQ'd, go for it. It's all about getting the most fun out of this hobby. I would just choose a different headphone.
  
 But hey, I don't have any issues with all the negatives anyway (no mod. HD800 classic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).


----------



## purrin

golfnutz said:


> I thought the M2Tech USB solution was suppose to be half decent (based on Elberoth's shootout of 15 USB interfaces).


 
  
 It's decent. But we are looking for the last few percent. Elberoth's USB / SPDIF shootout also lacks one crucial element: the use of the i2s interface on DACs that will take i2s. In my experience, i2s was another step up compared to the SPDIF output from the OR5 on the PWD2 and M7. Considering how small the differences are, if the M2Tech USB is 80 points, the OR5 SPDIF 90 points, I'd say the OR5 i2s ethernet is 125 points and OR5 HDMI i2s 140 points.


----------



## purrin

icebear said:


> Rock and pop music are already working with amps and effects to make it more interesting / exciting. Most often it is mixed to sound great on "budget" (teenage budget) equipment and not on high end speakers or headphones.


 
  
 That's nonsense. You obviously haven't heard some well engineered rock or pop albums. Not all classical is recorded or mastered well either.
  
 Quote:


icebear said:


> To take such a source material as example that the HD800 w/o mod or EQ is painful doesn't make too much sense to me. If your favorite style of music needs the HD800 to be modded or EQ'd, go for it. It's all about getting the most fun out of this hobby. I would just choose a different headphone.


 
  
 I don't understand. First you say go for the mods. Then you say choose a different headphone.


----------



## Nimzerz

ALRAINBOW...
                       RHYME...
                                        ...POEMS
 HAIKU
               PLS...
 YOU'LL MAKE
                            ME
                                    SHED TEARS...
         OF...JOY
@hifimanrookie...
     How about I fill half the page with...some nonsense?
  
                                                            Headphones
  
                    ....
  
                                        Headfi...
  
 HD800
  
                                                                                  ...
                      Thread


----------



## Chodi

mambosenior said:


> It's more than decent! A great product for many that are not in the market for that extra 5% of uber fidelity. Beyond a certain "uber" point of hearing perception, spending money on uber DACs or related digital products is basically pissing money away (and I have done a lot of the latter over the years).
> 
> (Uber and out.)


 
 +1 I use it and I like it.


----------



## koiloco

I swear that there got to be a know it all everywhere you go in life...without a doubt.


----------



## MattTCG

Honest question: between the lyr and BHC w/sb, what would give the hd800 the best pairing (both using uberfrost) ?
  
  
 thanks...


----------



## punit

The LYR is no contest with the BHC + speed ball for the HD 800. The BHC + S is better sounding by a wide margin for HD 800.


----------



## icebear

Somehow quoting wasn't working properly, so I cut and pasted the entire thing:
  
  
 Quote orig. posted by *purrin:*
  


icebear said:


> Rock and pop music are already working with amps and effects to make it more interesting / exciting. Most often it is mixed to sound great on "budget" (teenage budget) equipment and not on high end speakers or headphones.


 
  
 That's nonsense. You obviously haven't heard some well engineered rock or pop albums. Not all classical is recorded or mastered well either. (1)
  
 Quote:


icebear said:


> To take such a source material as example that the HD800 w/o mod or EQ is painful doesn't make too much sense to me. If your favorite style of music needs the HD800 to be modded or EQ'd, go for it. It's all about getting the most fun out of this hobby. I would just choose a different headphone.


 
  
 I don't understand. First you say go for the mods. Then you say choose a different headphone. (2)  ]* Unquote*
  
  
 (1) : What do you regard as well engineered rock or pop albums ?
  
 (2) : If you go back to my orig. post ...
  
 [Quote : If *your* favorite style of music needs the HD800 to be modded or EQ'd, go for it.
 It's all about getting the most fun out of this hobby. *I *would just choose a different headphone.]
  
 ...you will recognize what I said, meaning: *your* solution might not be the same as *mine*, simple as that.
 I obviously have a different musical preference i.e. mostly acoustic Jazz and classic.
 So it's no surprise at all that we have vastly different impressions about the HD800.


----------



## MattTCG

punit said:


> The LYR is no contest with the BHC + speed ball for the HD 800. The BHC + S is better sounding by a wide margin for HD 800.


 
  
 Thank you for that.


----------



## preproman

purrin said:


> It's decent. But we are looking for the last few percent. Elberoth's USB / SPDIF shootout also lacks one crucial element: the use of the i2s interface on DACs that will take i2s. In my experience, i2s was another step up compared to the SPDIF output from the OR5 on the PWD2 and M7. Considering how small the differences are, *if the M2Tech USB is 80 points, the OR5 SPDIF 90 points, I'd say the OR5 i2s ethernet is 125 points and OR5 HDMI i2s 140 points.*


 
  
 Way off topic here but:
  
 That's a bit of a stretch.  I've heard them all as well.  IMO those i2S runs are just to long, I would rather have my USB to i2S conversion done inside the DAC.  Anyway comparing apples to apples (USB to SPDIF) (no i2S) the Alpha USB is a better solution.  YMMV.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I'm sure others will disagree but I do not care 
I know what I hear and I own them. 
And for anyone here to post a statement based on a few mins 
Claim to fame review is just wrong. 
Do you own them. ???
So I do and I have listened and i2 a is better all around 
But as not all DACS have these additional inputs 
He made it a square comparison. 
As for cable l length yes it matters. But very little 
But what does really matter is cable quality 
And I doubt the one saying this spent money on a psa audio
Ac12. There bestidel. Anyway I now I am attacking but I am getting tired of opinions based on a 5 min listen 
And elbroth owns ultra hi end EQ 

Al


----------



## purrin

preproman said:


> Way off topic here but:
> 
> That's a bit of a stretch.  I've heard them all as well.  IMO those i2S runs are just to long, I would rather have my USB to i2S conversion done inside the DAC.  Anyway comparing apples to apples (USB to SPDIF) (no i2S) the Alpha USB is a better solution.  YMMV.


 
  
 I thought the BADA USB was about the same as the OR5 stock (tried with Alpha 2, PWD2, Vega). As far as i2s, no one is forcing you to use long runs. Terminate your own or have custom cables made. I don't blame you if wanted a single box solution though.
  
 You moved up to a higher price bracket and don't even own said DACs anymore anyways; and from what I understand have never even heard the OR5 via i2s with either the PWD2 or M7, much less the HDMI i2s implementation in the M7. In fact, I'm not even sure you've even heard the OR5.


----------



## purrin

BTW, I listen to everything. Most of my CDs are classical.
  
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *icebear* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...*you will recognize what I said, meaning: your solution might not be the same as mine*, simple as that.
> I obviously have a different musical preference i.e. mostly acoustic* Jazz and classic.*
> *So it's no surprise at all that we have vastly different impressions about the HD800.*


 
  
_But isn't that exactly what I said in my original post? _That folks who listen to mostly classical will not have an issue with the HD800, i.e., they will not find it bright. I simply offered an explanation as to why. Just do a frequency analysis of natural instrument recordings in Adobe Audition and compare with a track like the Talking Heads / Naive Melody (the remaster from about five years ago). If the treble content is subdued, even headphones with spikes and other irregularities in the treble like the AKG K812 or HD700 will not have any serious issues.
  
 This is why I don't understand exactly what you are trying to get at.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

You go get them. 
Al


----------



## preproman

Your understanding is not quite correct.

Not on the Master 7 but compared a maxed out OR5 and the Alpha USB in all ways possible on the PWD2. Back to my point - Your point spread is grossly over hyped. I found the Alpha USB beat out the maxed out OR5. That's not the point either, I think we all hear the same things but we just have different preferences.


----------



## purrin

preproman said:


> but compared a maxed out OR5 and the Alpha USB in all ways possible on the PWD2.


  
 Pictures or it didn't happen.

  
 Also, how can you say my point spread is not quite correct when you haven't heard the i2s on the M7?


----------



## preproman

As far as long i2S runs goes. Any i2S run out side the Dac is to long. It was never meant to be used that way.


----------



## preproman

Pictures? ha ha ha. They're gone so I guess it didn't happen. 

A maxed out OR5 and the Alpha USB is just to close to call.


----------



## purrin

preproman said:


> As far as long i2S runs goes. Any i2S run out side the Dac is to long. It was never meant to be used that way.


 
  
 To some extent I agree with that. But what do you understand about i2s signaling? Are you saying the PSA/W2S i2s standard (differential signaling with the four lines) was created by retards, that it was created by noobs who didn't care about the integrity of the signal at the tail end?
  
 Have you seen DacLadder's measurements and the work he's done on improving the RJ45 i2s transmission to the M7 (which BTW was not ideal) He got measurably better results with resistor changes (for a more ideal match with the OR5), and better shielded cables. In the end, he ditched the RJ45 in favor of the LVDS HDMI of the PSA/W2S for more consistent results regardless of cables.
  
 Using your logic, airplanes shaped like the F117 and B2 were never meant to fly, and separate CD transports and DACs using external SPDIF via coax should have never meant to be.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

As for the distance you are simply quoting 
What the intention was nothing more. 
My MSB does it as does the pwd mkii 
Are you stating that you know and they do not. 
I have read that too though. But we do not make these products 
So there must be other ways besides inside the older sacd and CD players
Al


----------



## icebear

purrin said:


> _But isn't that exactly what I said in my original post? _That folks who listen to mostly classical will not have an issue with the HD800, i.e., they will not find it bright. I simply offered an explanation as to why. Just do a frequency analysis of natural instrument recordings in Adobe Audition and compare with a track like the Talking Heads / Naive Melody (the remaster from about five years ago). If the treble content is subdued, even headphones with spikes and other irregularities in the treble like the AKG K812 or HD700 will not have any serious issues.
> 
> This is why I don't understand exactly what you are trying to get at.


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-appreciation-thread/9525#post_10395732
  
 I thought my above post # 9530 was conveying the message but obviously it did not, sorry about that but I'm also not a native English speaker. I guess it would be too boring for the other members if we continue here and I am not sure if I have a chance that you get my point, so I stop trying  ). No worries.


----------



## purrin

Let me spell it out. For the pop songs, I took these snapshots at the peaks where the snare drums hit.
  
 This Talking Heads track is slightly too bright for my ears with the HD800. On the HD700, it's just downright difficult.

  
 The track from the Voice pushes me over the edge with the HD800. It's not listenable on the HD700.

  
 This track from Natalie Merchant is fine with the HD800. The record is actually kind of laid-back sounding compared to most pop records. It sounds great on the HD800.

  
 This is Beet's #5 at a crescendo during the "storm" movement. It sounds absolutely fine on the HD800. And even pretty good on the HD700 or K812 (two headphones which have notable treble spikes)

  
 .


----------



## koiloco

this is getting really good.


----------



## LugBug1

Haven't tried the mods but..
  
 I think the HD800 is designed to extract the highest resolution possible. And to do this you need peaks! But the peaks (or peak) of the HD800 isn't nearly as bad as some other hp's out there. I'm a classical/jazz listener but I listen to some new quality pop releases and I've never experienced any pain or even uncomfortable trebles. The only time I ever wince a little will be with an old Jazz recording where the trumpet is typically "bluenote bright". In other words, if the HD800 sounds painful or harsh in the treble - it is the recording ime.
 Lets take Daft Punk's latest for e.g. It is a good modern pop recording, mixed to sound great at high volumes- all nicely compressed with emphasized bass. It sounds amazing with the HD800! But any dampening in the cups to control the ringing would surely start to render it duller? kill the decay? Basically the atmosphere of the music would suffer imo. I own loads of ambient/world fusion stuff that is electronic and most of it sounds amazing with the Senn's because it is produced very well. Bad recordings will always sound bad with the HD800 whether they are pop rock or acoustic. 
  
 I totally understand some preferring a smaller, more 'compact' soundstage and for that reason I can understand a modification. However I'm not sure how that would improve the imaging. Less ringing may make the image more focused, but I would argue about the loss of decay/atmosphere again. As far as mods for the treble goes, noo nooo. Just no. Live brass is far more intrusive to the eardrums than the HD800's can replicate... Unless they are recorded very badly (or many years ago) to begin with.
  
 I'm not technically minded at all, however I do like looking at graphs for reference to equalize some hp's. I've kind of learned to use the HD800 as a bench mark. For instance (and a bad example maybe ) my current RS2's need to be EQ'd down 3 decibels in the 6k area - and they still sound brighter than the Senn's. If I was to make them equal to the Senn's I'd have to EQ them down approximately 5 db. This is crazy but true!  
  
 I'm not an HD800 fanboy - I'm big on aesthetics and I'm afraid that they look a bit silly to me....  But they are the nearest to perfection in regards to sound reproduction I've heard, regardless what any measurements say. Perfection as in 'accuracy' (using subjective reference of course).  
  
 I'm really starting to annoy myself now with my opinionated opinions.. So I'm going to stop typing. After this full stop.


----------



## preproman

purrin said:


> To some extent I agree with that. But what do you understand about i2s signaling? Are you saying the PSA/W2S i2s standard (differential signaling with the four lines) was created by retards, that it was created by noobs who didn't care about the integrity of the signal at the tail end?
> 
> Have you seen DacLadder's measurements and the work he's done on improving the RJ45 i2s transmission to the M7 (which BTW was not ideal) He got measurably better results with resistor changes (for a more ideal match with the OR5), and better shielded cables. In the end, he ditched the RJ45 in favor of the LVDS HDMI of the PSA/W2S for more consistent results regardless of cables.
> 
> Using your logic, airplanes shaped like the F117 and B2 were never meant to fly, and separate CD transports and DACs using external SPDIF via coax should have never meant to be.


 
  
 Only what I've read.  However, what I do know "Fo Sho" is the longer the cable the grayer background becomes.  I don't know if that's because of noise or induced jitter.  
  
 I've heard one DAC with the USB to i2S conversion done on the inside of the DAC side by side with the PWD2 / OR5 / Alpha USB - (Buffalo III with the *exaU2I USB to I2S* *Interface)*.  The BIII had a blacker background but fail behind at other things.  You won't notice this "of course" unless you compare them side by side.
  
 This has nothing to do with the HD800 - sorry.  Back to the topic of the thread..


----------



## Sorrodje

lugbug1 said:


> Haven't tried the mods but..
> 
> _....boring blablablablabla by LugBug1...._
> I'm really starting to annoy myself now with my opinionated opinions.. So I'm going to stop typing. After this full stop.


 
  
  
 +1


----------



## 62ohm

I smell another lock coming to this thread...
  
  
 Well, before it is locked, has anyone tried the Leckerton UHA-6S with HD800? Thanks.


----------



## purrin

preproman said:


> Only what I've read.  However, what I do know "Fo Sho" is the longer the cable the grayer background becomes.  I don't know if that's because of noise or induced jitter.
> 
> I've heard one DAC with the USB to i2S conversion done on the inside of the DAC side by side with the PWD2 / OR5 / Alpha USB - (Buffalo III with the *exaU2I USB to I2S* *Interface)*.  The BIII had a blacker background but fail behind at other things.  You won't notice this "of course" unless you compare them side by side.
> 
> This has nothing to do with the HD800 - sorry.  Back to the topic of the thread..


 
  
 Agreed on the cable lengths and effects on the "blackground".
  
 However, I think it's a stretch to say internal USB to i2s implementations are always superior in X regards. I don't know if you knew this, but _USB to i2s conversion is done on practically *every *DAC that uses USB._ I don't hear the internal VIA chip USB to i2s implementation on the M7 or XMOS chip USB to i2s PWD as better than the external implementations using the OR5, even in the "blackground" aspect. In fact, they are far far worse.


----------



## purrin

62ohm said:


> I smell another lock coming to this thread...
> 
> 
> Well, before it is locked, has anyone tried the Leckerton UHA-6S with HD800? Thanks.


 
  
 It's a good combination if using the amp section. The Leckerton won't shape or color the sound to work with the HD800 specifically, but it's not harshing sounding either like some of the other portables I have tried. It's pretty straight up, has sufficient power to keep the HD800 from sounding anemic (mushy), and very resolving for the price and footprint. I thought the internal DAC was kind of lean sounding. Using a warmer source (in my case, the Sony X) + UHA-6S got me good results with the HD800.


----------



## 62ohm

purrin said:


> It's a good combination if using the amp section. The Leckerton won't shape or color the sound to work with the HD800. It's pretty straight up, has sufficient power to keep the HD800 from sounding anemic (mushy), and very resolving for the price and footprint. I thought the internal DAC was kind of lean sounding. Using a warmer source (in my case, the Sony X) + UHA-6S got me good results with the HD800.


 
  
 Thanks for your thoughts, so I assume if I use a FiiO X3 / X5, or an AK100 the Leckerton would shine with HD800 as a semi-portable rig then?


----------



## LugBug1

sorrodje said:


> +1


 
 Zzzzzzz... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


62ohm said:


> I smell another lock coming to this thread...


 
 Why would it be locked? No one is personally attacking anyone. It's a heated debate thats all.. and mostly on topic. 
  
 I'm off to bed now, but I'm already preparing my next post. Its going to be very long and full of interesting thoughts !


----------



## Stapsy

@Lugbug
  
 I think the point of the mod is to reduce the stray sounds inside of the cups...at least that is what I am now attempting to do.  It is not dissimilar from room treatment when using speakers.  The idea is to kill the resonant frequencies that can confuse the imaging.  If done poorly the mod could easily make the sound worse. I am not concerned with altering the FR.  I have no problem with the stock HD800 anymore, but I do think there could be improvements made on the internal "treatment"

 To your other point my answer is it depends on your perspective of decay/atmosphere.  I suppose stray frequencies could have the effect of simulating decay because the reflections take longer to reach your ear.  In my opinion headphones/speakers aren't musical instruments and aren't meant to have natural acoustics.  I would argue that the less distortion of the sound by stray frequencies, the easier it is to hear the natural resonance of instruments as they were recorded.  I haven't quite satisfied myself in that regard with the mod yet, but this discussion has given me some new idea's to play around with for implementation.
  
 Oh and also no heat on my part, I am just trying to explain my thought process behind the mod.  I tend to agree with you that instruments do sound quite harsh in real life.


----------



## purrin

lugbug1 said:


> Haven't tried the mods but..
> 
> I think the HD800 is designed to extract the highest resolution possible. *And to do this you need peaks! *But the peaks (or peak) of the HD800 isn't nearly as bad as some other hp's out there.


 
  
 I agree that the HD800 is the most resolving can out there. However, I would not dare say that treble peaks are a prerequisite for high resolution. There's no correlation to this. Some Ultrasones have peaks in the treble. They sound harsh, unrefined, without even the slightest ability of the HD800. Similar experience with the AKG K812. The K812 has a peak around 7kHz. Guess what? It's horrible in the resolution department. I had a chance to compare the K812 directly to the "lowly" HD600 last week. The K812 simply drops off huge amounts of low level information in tracks such as the Eagles Live Hotel CA, Pixies Brick is Red. Pretty much on every track, little details such as string decay, ambient cues, tape noise, etc. All gone... blank... on the K812. The HD600 exhibits no such peak. It's response is even less bright than the HD800. Then how does it still resolve so well? Finally, I hear no less capability of modded or EQ'd HD800s to extract microdetail.
  


> Originally Posted by *LugBug1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Lets take Daft Punk's latest for e.g. It is a good modern pop recording, mixed to sound great at high volumes- all nicely compressed with emphasized bass. It sounds amazing with the HD800! *But any dampening in the cups to control the ringing would surely start to render it duller? kill the decay? Basically the atmosphere of the music would suffer imo.*


 
  
 How would you know? You've admitted that you've never heard the mods to the HD800. More on this later... (BTW, I would not consider the new Daft Punk record a good recording. Too much bass and lower end.)
  


> Originally Posted by *LugBug1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Unless they are recorded very badly (or many years ago) to begin with.


 

  
 Bad recordings, specifically bright ones, will sound bad on even less bright headphones such as HD600, HE-500, Abyss, UERM, Paradox, etc. No need for an HD800 for that. However, recordings of marginal quality, that is which are _marginally _bright, will do OK with the HD600, HE-500, Abyss, UERM, Paradox, but end up as quite difficult on the HD800. It's really not so black and white. One thing I've noted is that there is a strong tendency of HD800 fans to blindly blame _only _the recording when in fact its really a combination of the recording _and_ the HD800.
  
 Which leads to the the following:
  

The Anax mods were thrown out there as a possible solution to those who appreciated the HD800's resolving capabilities but found it difficult to use with marginally bright recordings. It was never the intent of the person and associated persons such as myself behind the mods to IMPOSE our view of how the HD800s should sound like. As I will quote icebear who sort of started this entire thing: _"Obviously preferences for musical taste are different and no one is right or wrong but to decide if a headphone reproduces a sound as close as possible to the original (to the highest fidelity), my personal reference is the comparison to acoustic instruments and voices."_ I will again emphasize, no one is forcing you to use this mod. No one is saying this mod is right for you. That statement doesn't work only one way.
The effects of the Anax mod are subtle depending upon implementation. I think there's some misperception that Daft Punk's Get Lucky will be rendered on the HD800 to sound like it was coming from an LCD-3. This is hardly the case. In fact, even after the 2.0 mods, the HD800 is still bright _relative _to cans such as the HD600. The possible downsides of the mod were also fully disclosed and discussed.
Classical and jazz listeners likely won't need the Anax mod. This has been stated several times already. *The existence of the mod or people who think the HD800 is on the bright sounding side should not be taken as a affront to people who are perfectly happy with the HD800 as is.*


----------



## roguegeek

I'm not reading about too many people with the HD 800 paired with the AURALiC TAURUS Mk2, but it seems like it's really hitting it out of the park in terms of reviews. Anyone here take the leap and, if you did, what do you think? I would say it's this and the CMA800R that are at the top of the list right now for me.


----------



## preproman

purrin said:


> Classical and jazz listeners likely won't need the Anax mod. This has been stated several times already. *The existence of the mod or people who think the HD800 is on the bright sounding side should not be taken as a affront to people who are perfectly happy with the HD800 as is.*


 
  
  
 Sounds about right.   Also through in R&B, Soul, Funk, Hip-Hop and Rap listeners as well.


----------



## preproman

purrin said:


> Agreed on the cable lengths and effects on the "blackground".
> 
> However,* I think it's a stretch to say internal USB to i2s implementations are always superior in X regards.* I don't know if you knew this, but _USB to i2s conversion is done on practically *every *DAC that uses USB._ I don't hear the internal VIA chip USB to i2s implementation on the M7 or XMOS chip USB to i2s PWD as better than the external implementations using the OR5, even in the "blackground" aspect. In fact, they are far far worse.


 
  
 Umm, I don't especially when there's a cable or cable length involved.


----------



## Maxvla

roguegeek said:


> I'm not reading about too many people with the HD 800 paired with the [COLOR=333333]AURALiC TAURUS Mk2, but it seems like it's really hitting it out of the park in terms of reviews. Anyone here take the leap and, if you did, what do you think? I would say it's this and the CMA800R that are at the top of the list right now for me.[/COLOR]



I've read comment somewhere about the Questyle dulling the sound too much, making it good for bad recordings with the HD800, but not up to the level of the Taurus or a GS-X on decent or good recordings. Personally I aim for the best performance with the best recordings and just deal with the blemishes on poorer recordings.


----------



## Revogamer

I find the taurus with the HD800 to be a great match.. brings out all the details (good dac is a must though..) with no hardness whatsoever, and great bass amount, slam and impact - more than what i have heard before off the HD800 to be honest (This is with Bryston BDA-2 as DAC)


----------



## purrin

preproman said:


> Umm, I don't especially when there's a cable or cable length involved.


 
  
 Then why does the OR5 with its external i2s cable sound better than the USB to i2s internal solutions of the PWD2 or M7? You gather what I am saying?


----------



## purrin

maxvla said:


> I've read comment somewhere about the Questyle dulling the sound too much, making it good for bad recordings with the HD800, but not up to the level of the Taurus or a GS-X on decent or good recordings. Personally I aim for the best performance with the best recordings and just deal with the blemishes on poorer recordings.


 

 I think you are referring to me? I can't say if it was the Questyle amp or DAC. But either one or both them were dulling up the sound, smoothing out a lot of apparent bite, treble, air, etc. In some ways, tonal response, you can say that's a good match. In other ways it's bad if the upstream equipment isn't able to reproduce what the HD800 is capable of.


----------



## twsmith

maxvla said:


> I've read comment somewhere about the Questyle dulling the sound too much, making it good for bad recordings with the HD800, but not up to the level of the Taurus or a GS-X on decent or good recordings. Personally I aim for the best performance with the best recordings and just deal with the blemishes on poorer recordings.




Not true - the Questyle (CMA800R) definitely does not "dull" the sound or "smooth over" bad recordings. I find it to be very transparent and resolving with all of my recordings, good or bad. Pairing the amp with a good dac is key.


----------



## BournePerfect

As always-point of reference is key.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## purrin

Well maybe it's the Questyle DAC which is craptastic. Now I wish I pulled the two units apart to determine which was the culprit, or at least how the craptastic-ness was distributed. Bah, just buy an HDVD800. Doesn't compare to the best, but pretty darn good with excellent synergy with the HD800; and at a "reasonable" price too for the package. Sexy looking box too.
  
 ADD: Use balanced from the HDVD800. The single ended out is gimp.


----------



## koiloco

purrin said:


> *Well maybe it's the Questyle DAC which is craptastic.* Now I wish I pulled the two units apart to determine which was the culprit, or at least how the craptastic-ness was distributed. Bah, just buy an HDVD800. Doesn't compare to the best, but pretty darn good with excellent synergy with the HD800; and at a "reasonable" price too for the package. Sexy looking box too.
> 
> ADD: Use balanced from the HDVD800. The single ended out is gimp.


 
 craptastic huh!   lmao.


----------



## TwoEars

purrin said:


> Well maybe it's the Questyle DAC which is craptastic. Now I wish I pulled the two units apart to determine which was the culprit, or at least how the craptastic-ness was distributed. Bah, just buy an HDVD800. Doesn't compare to the best, but pretty darn good with excellent synergy with the HD800; and at a "reasonable" price too for the package. Sexy looking box too.
> 
> ADD: Use balanced from the HDVD800. The single ended out is gimp.


 
  
 Yes, I personally believe that DAC's matter more than the AMP so that's what's so tricky about all this. It's really hard to judge a single product in the chain if more than that single product keeps changing.
  
 And don't forget that we change from day to day too! I know my ears have bad days and good days.
  
 Anyone got any Sheikh friends who are into headphones? We'll just ask them to buy "one of everything" and set it up in a dedicated listening room with perfect power and then we can could really start comparing.


----------



## pearljam50000

The HD800 is 5 years old.
How is it possible that it's still the best for the price in the market?
Is there another flagship from Sennheiser on the horizon that would replace the HD800?
Thanks.


----------



## Maxvla

Considering the previous design was in flagship use for about 15 years (HD580/600/650), no, probably not.


----------



## purrin

And the HD800 still sells like hotcakes. I'm surprised Sennheiser hasn't raised the price to $1999.


----------



## pearljam50000

Don't give them any ideas (;
What is the latest S/N btw?


----------



## Sonido

purrin said:


> And the HD800 still sells like hotcakes. I'm surprised Sennheiser hasn't raised the price to $1999.


 

 Does it?
  
 Amazon had sellout end of last year priced at $889. While some say it was a price mistake, no orders were cancelled and the serial numbers on the ones we got were a few thousand less than the current production you'd get buying elsewhere. Razordog Audio still has them in stock despite having a 20% off sale ($1200) since a month because they're no longer supplying them and the stock they have is the last of it.


----------



## BournePerfect

That was an Amazon error-happens all the time. Lasted like a day tops, iirc. Senn is around the 30k serial now-which is insane seeing as they were the first ones selling a non-stat for over a grand-way over actually at 1.5k. It's gonna be hard for them to top the HD800 imo, which is why I think a planar or stat may be their next complementary flagship imo.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Maxvla

HD800s were $1300 when they first came out, then raised to $1500, but yes, they're over 30k now. Compare that to LCD2/3/X combined and I'd be very surprised if it is even 1/3 of that number.


----------



## Sonido

Yeah I got mine during that Amazon sale last December and it was 25XXX. That's why I think it could be a sellout of slow inventory.


----------



## 62ohm

purrin said:


> Well maybe it's the Questyle DAC which is craptastic. Now I wish I pulled the two units apart to determine which was the culprit, or at least how the craptastic-ness was distributed. Bah, just buy an HDVD800. Doesn't compare to the best, but pretty darn good with excellent synergy with the HD800; and at a "reasonable" price too for the package. Sexy looking box too.
> 
> ADD: Use balanced from the HDVD800. The single ended out is gimp.


 
  
 Purrin,
  
 Have you heard the BHA-1 with the HD800? If so, do you prefer the HDVD800 to the Bryston, or is it the other way around?


----------



## burnspbesq

Marv, as you know from our prior conversations on this subject, I've never made any attempt to mod my 800s, because the peak at 6K doesn't bother me.  I've thought about why it doesn't bother me, and it seems like there are three possibilities.
  
 (1) Due to my extreme ancientness and decrepitude, my hearing is rolled off at the top.
  
 (2) I am actually hearing the effects of the peak at 6K, but for unique-to-me psychoacoustic reasons (a fancy way of saying my personal preferences in how things sound), it doesn't bother me.
  
 (3) There's nothing much to hear at 6K.
  
 Before you scoff at (3), consider the following.
  
 I'm not aware of a single musical instrument that produces fundamentals at 6K.  The highest key on a piano is 4186 at concert pitch.  The highest note on the E string of a violin in seventh position is the third A above middle C, which is 1760 at concert pitch.  A piccolo gets to around 3500.  Maybe you could blow an overtone on a soprano sax, or do some weird overblowing thing on an oboe, that would get you above 3K.  But that's pretty much it.
  
 So what's at 6K?  Well, the second harmonic of 1500; but how much of a typical piece of music resides in the third octave above middle C (OK, you've got me on the Barber _Adagio for Strings_, but other than that ...)? 
  
 What you find at 6K is primarily third and higher-order harmonics and some transient information.  That's not nothing, but looking at a random sample of tracks from my collection in Audacity, what's at 6K is typically about 30dB down from what's in the octaves around middle C
  
 Is an artificial boost of a few dB in that area really all that critical?  And if so, why?


----------



## purrin

62ohm said:


> Purrin,
> 
> Have you heard the BHA-1 with the HD800? If so, do you prefer the HDVD800 to the Bryston, or is it the other way around?


 
  
 Yes. Maxvla was kind enough to lend a friend and I his BHA-1 for a period of time. The BHA-1 was auditioned with the PWD2 DAC running fw 2.03. The BHA-1 has a very delineated attack in the treble. You would think this works against with the HD800, but it doesn't. This nature is really totally different and separate from the 5-6k peak of the HD800. The staging of the BHA-1 was somewhat close, but had good depth, at least for a solid-state amp. Bass had a good amount of power and impact, although not quite in the realm of the best. Downsides were that differences between balanced and singled ended inputs didn't really matter much (this is really minor), the bass was slower relative to the super fast treble, and if the amp got hot on a consistent basis, the bass would get kind of mushy (this was a major detractor). If you live in a cold or cool climate, I would highly recommend the BHA-1. My room upstairs where we auditioned it as over 90F and we intentional left the BHA-1 on for several hours for it to really heat up before listening. This is behavior of the sound getting softer or mushy with higher temps is actually not BS with the MOSFETs used in the BHA-1. I've heard this behavior with other amps.
  
 The HDVD800 has a smoother less delineated sound, although I wouldn't call it dull. More like liquid. Using the balanced outs, I was very impressed with its imaging, separation, layering, depth, etc. for a solid-state device because it approached that of a good tube amp. The HDVD800 was just a tad less lively sounding and less resolving than the BHA-1 + PWD2 (fw 2.03) combo. What the HDVD800 does well it that its an amp/DAC package that meshes well with the HD800. Very refined and lots of grace. Maybe too much? The BHA-1 could have more potential, but may require a matching good DAC to reach that potential.


----------



## olor1n

purrin - have you heard the HDVD600? How good is that amp isolated from Senn's DAC? Curious how it compares to the MJ.


----------



## Maxvla

It worked for me. Though the air in my house stays a comfortable 70-75 F year round.


----------



## 62ohm

purrin said:


> Yes. Maxvla was kind enough to lend a friend and I his BHA-1 for a period of time. The BHA-1 was auditioned with the PWD2 DAC running fw 2.03. The BHA-1 has a very delineated attack in the treble. You would think this works against with the HD800, but it doesn't. This nature is really totally different and separate from the 5-6k peak of the HD800. The staging of the BHA-1 was somewhat close, but had good depth, at least for a solid-state amp. Bass had a good amount of power and impact, although not quite in the realm of the best. Downsides were that differences between balanced and singled ended inputs didn't really matter much (this is really minor), the bass was slower relative to the super fast treble, and if the amp got hot on a consistent basis, the bass would get kind of mushy (this was a major detractor). If you live in a cold or cool climate, I would highly recommend the BHA-1. My room upstairs where we auditioned it as over 90F and we intentional left the BHA-1 on for several hours for it to really heat up before listening. This is behavior of the sound getting softer or mushy with higher temps is actually not BS with the MOSFETs used in the BHA-1. I've heard this behavior with other amps.
> 
> The HDVD800 has a smoother less delineated sound, although I wouldn't call it dull. More like liquid. Using the balanced outs, I was very impressed with its imaging, separation, layering, depth, etc. for a solid-state device because it approached that of a good tube amp. The HDVD800 was just a tad less lively sounding and less resolving than the BHA-1 + PWD2 (fw 2.03) combo. What the HDVD800 does well it that its an amp/DAC package that meshes well with the HD800. Very refined and lots of grace. Maybe too much? The BHA-1 could have more potential, but may require a matching good DAC to reach that potential.


 
  
 Thanks for the impressions mate, been wondering about this for quite a while now.


----------



## LugBug1

I'm the italics 
 Quote:


purrin said:


> I agree that the HD800 is the most resolving can out there. However, I would not dare say that treble peaks are a prerequisite for high resolution. There's no correlation to this. Some Ultrasones have peaks in the treble. They sound harsh, unrefined, without even the slightest ability of the HD800. Similar experience with the AKG K812. The K812 has a peak around 7kHz. Guess what? It's horrible in the resolution department. I had a chance to compare the K812 directly to the "lowly" HD600 last week. The K812 simply drops off huge amounts of low level information in tracks such as the Eagles Live Hotel CA, Pixies Brick is Red. Pretty much on every track, little details such as string decay, ambient cues, tape noise, etc. All gone... blank... on the K812. The HD600 exhibits no such peak. It's response is even less bright than the HD800. Then how does it still resolve so well? Finally, I hear no less capability of modded or EQ'd HD800s to extract microdetail.
> 
> _I would say that the peaks of the HD800 are what gives them the extra resolution (or impression of more details). But as you say bad peaks can do more harm than good. Resolution for me is clarity/detail. E/Qing the HD800 where the peaks are - dulls them in my experience and the detail/clarity starts to get lost in that particular area. I know the HD600's very well and they simply don't have the same level of detail/clarity as the HD800 (have no idea about the K812 but any headphone that drops off huge amounts of low level detail with a pop track shouldn't even be welcome on head-fi nevermind a high end discussion!!). The resolution is very good, but when it comes to anything with layering (such as complex orchestral music) they blur in comparison to the 800's. Without the peaks of the HD800 (dulled by EQ) the trebles of brass for e.g can start to amalgamate into a one treble - can sound like a multitude of one instrument instead of more colours and variants. This could be argued as  'higher contrast' rather than 'natural resolution' but I don't hear anything unnatural when wearing the HD800 over a headphone such as the HD600. But one defo sounds duller than the other. Not one sounding too bright over the other. _
> 
> ...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

As some here may know. I use all three kinds of musical reproduction . CIEM, HEADPHONES AND SPEAKERS. 

As we approach a ultra hi end form of sound reproduction. The chain becomes much more sensitive to all devices in it. 
As such of course music content is at the beginning of the chain. Now with a headphone like hd800 it is very much helping show you the good the bad and the ugly. A headphone like the lcd3 is far better suited for lesser recordings 
But if you want to hear it all , thT is what this thread is about. So it's a virtue not a curse.
Al


----------



## skeptic

burnspbesq said:


> ....
> 
> I'm not aware of a single musical instrument that produces fundamentals at 6K.  The highest key on a piano is 4186 at concert pitch.  The highest note on the E string of a violin in seventh position is the third A above middle C, which is 1760 at concert pitch.  A piccolo gets to around 3500.  Maybe you could blow an overtone on a soprano sax, or do some weird overblowing thing on an oboe, that would get you above 3K.  But that's pretty much it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 A fair question, but at least one natural instrument does play fundamentals that high: pipe organ.  See chart below.
  
 More significant, in my opinion, is the impact on overtones as you mentioned.  Since our perception of accurate timbre (and indeed our ability to differentiate a flute from a trumpet) is simply a function of the magnitude and phase of an instrument's overtones, a 6khz peak is definitely going to impact perceived timbre in a significant way.  As depicted by the yellow lines below, most natural voices and instruments have audible overtones that extend beyond 6khz.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

As I am sure this is all true. I have played with this 
As my office rig is a 4 way crossover 
Last cutoff is 4k and up as when I have had it for testing increased to 8 k 
The music sound very real but without ambience air and staging 
And the energy at that freq and above is small but has 
A very large impact 
Al


----------



## icebear

alrainbow said:


> As some here may know. I use all three kinds of musical reproduction . CIEM, HEADPHONES AND SPEAKERS.
> 
> As we approach a ultra hi end form of sound reproduction. The chain becomes much more sensitive to all devices in it.
> As such of course music content is at the beginning of the chain. Now with a headphone like hd800 it is very much helping show you the good the bad and the ugly. A headphone like the lcd3 is far better suited for lesser recordings
> ...


 

*+1 *
 For some it seems though, that they are enjoying very much splitting hairs about the "curse aspect" with their specific music preference , LOL.
 I am in the virtue camp and enjoy it ).


----------



## purrin

Splitting hairs what it's is all about for audiophiles. Otherwise you'd be running the HD800 out of your ipod or soundcard instead of waiting for your GSX2. People even fuss over cables for their HD800 to take the "edge" off. In fact, 90% of HD800s at the recent OC meet were running with upgraded cables, including at the Sennheiser table.


----------



## Sorrodje

Sorry purrin but I don't think so. Someone (sorry I don't remember who...) said he tried the anax mod and didn't' like it. Then you came to defend the mod. After many pages, the conclusion is that the hd800 is bright, not well suited for rock and that the anax mod could be an option but not for everyone.

IMO that's an excessive debate for a very unsurprising conclusion.

My 0.02


----------



## purrin

It think it's more the matter of tone and some elements of misinformation. If you had read my posts carefully, your stated conclusion: "the hd800 is bright, not well suited for rock and that the anax mod could be an option but not for everyone" was what I had already said.
  
 As far as excessive debate, you are from France, so you must surely understand?


----------



## Sorrodje

purrin said:


> As far as excessive debate, you are from France, so you must surely understand?




Lol! Indeed! But I thought the world outside France definitely avoided this plague!

I know you already stated the same conclusion. I only think that this statement didn't deserve so many pages of arguments.


----------



## nigeljames

I have heard the comment that the HD800's are not suitable for rock/metal many times, in fact it was the primary reason I refrained from buying them for so long.
  
 However I just want to say I think that statement is pure B***S**t.  IMO


----------



## purrin

I'm surprised Head-Fi is not based in Paris!
  
 No, but more seriously, the reason I posted some of the stuff is because I felt it could be beneficial for some people (us plebeians who do listen to silly music like rock and pop) to at least try the Anax mod, try experimenting with it, since there are four versions of it I've actually seen "in-the-field" from the meets I have attended, some with deleterious effects. I totally understand why that person who tried the mod didn't like it. I also wanted to put the mod into perspective, where the person (he is banned) who created it was coming from, and point out what it can do, both good and not so good.
  
 I'm just surprised I get attacked for that, e.g., "if I were you, I'd buy another headphone", "you enjoying splitting hairs over the curse aspect", etc.
  
 I mean people talk about cables, amps, specific tubes, to mellow out the HD800's brightness (even though they don't explicitly say they are doing this). I'm suggesting a few dollars of materials and five minutes with scissors. Geez.


----------



## Sorrodje

Come on guys... we beat a dead horse here. Every music is listenable on every equipment. Fully enjoyment is a matter of taste but some equipments is more suited than other for different music. I personally can listen to everything with my hd800. But if listened mostly rock & pop I would definitely choose another headphone. 

IMO, IME ...


----------



## purrin

The issue is loving certain attributes unique to the HD800 (soundstage, depth, resolution) but wanting to ameliorate its perceived weaknesses.
  
 It's like working with a sports car with too much understeer like the old Porsche 911s circa early 90s. One works with the suspension to try to fix it rather than buy a C4 Corvette.


----------



## Sorrodje

purrin said:


> The issue is loving certain attributes unique to the HD800 (soundstage, depth, resolution) but wanting to ameliorate its perceived weaknesses.
> 
> It's like working with a sports car with too much understeer like the old Porsche 911s circa early 90s. One works with the suspension to try to fix it rather than buy a C4 Corvette.




That's a bit exaggerated comparison but it.s quite fair. IMO fixing the hd800 is subtile enough to be fixed with carefully choosen gear. For my musical tastes.

But one more time we agree so we can shut up peacefully. :cheers:


----------



## koiloco

purrin said:


> I'm surprised Head-Fi is not based in Paris!
> 
> No, but more seriously, the reason I posted some of the stuff is because I felt it could be beneficial for some people (us plebeians who do listen to silly music like rock and pop) to at least try the Anax mod, try experimenting with it, since there are four versions of it I've actually seen "in-the-field" from the meets I have attended, some with deleterious effects. I totally understand why that person who tried the mod didn't like it. I also wanted to put the mod into perspective, where the person (he is banned) who created it was coming from, and point out what it can do, both good and not so good.
> 
> ...


 

 I don't think that what you are suggesting is a problem.  It's how you put forth your suggestion/evaluation of the HD800.  I believe that you are quite a knowledgeable guy when it comes to HPs and audio components but honestly, you do come across as arrogant and "know it all".  This is quite apparent, IMO, in your reviews and posts(yes, I've read many of them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  I absolutely don't mind and filter out what I perceive as positive and useful from your posting. 
 Don't get me wrong! I am not saying you should be PC in anyway.  We are all entitled to what and how we wanna say in an open forum.  I am just giving you my honest cyberspace impression of you as a person and hope to clarify some of the hostility directed at you.
  
 Peace...


----------



## LugBug1

I've enjoyed reading this whole little debate. And thanks to Purrin for putting up with us  
  
 The treble is always going to be an issue with this headphone, whether one thinks it is analytical or another thinks it is emphasized. Its been an issue since day one. So the debate will go on as long as the headphone is here imo. 
  
 Just for the record, I use warmer than neutral amps because that is my preferred sound with the HD800. And while I wouldn't mod them, I also wouldn't use them with a low impedance ss amp either. They are very adaptable and change easily - impedance matching, tube distortions etc effect them more than most hp's. Every amp I've tried has sounded different.  
  
 So in that respect, one man's HD800 will not sound the same as another man's. (or woman's. phew..!) So any mods done to the HD800 may not have the same effect as another's (man or woman.... Or manwoman?).


----------



## maconhel

the HD800 is good with electronic?


----------



## Sorrodje

maconhel said:


> the HD800 is good with electronic?




Yes sir but not for all electronic music. The hd800 is astonishingly good with ambient, down tempo,deep house and some stuff like burial or BT experimental work for example. Everytime you need to feel the atmosphere & be immersed in music, the hd800 does marvels. For electronics that need some funny mid-bass hump... some other headphones are more enjoyable still in my opinion. For some electronics , the Inherent slightly bright nature of the hd800 could be an issue. It's often the case with electronic dance music for example or dubstep.


----------



## ultrabike

Recordings that emphasize cymbals (or cymbal-like stuff) might be problematic, electronic or not.


----------



## Failed Engineer

I listen to a lot of pop, soul, R&B, and hip-hop on my HD800s and I like it better than most all other headphones I've owned or heard (that includes all the flagships except for the HE-6).  And I listen to it with a stock cable and unmodded!


----------



## purrin

koiloco said:


> I don't think that what you are suggesting is a problem.  It's how you put forth your suggestion/evaluation of the HD800.  I believe that you are quite a knowledgeable guy when it comes to HPs and audio components but honestly, you do come across as arrogant and "know it all".  This is quite apparent, IMO, in your reviews and posts(yes, I've read many of them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 LOL. Let me rewrite my original post:
  
_For those who may find the HD800s illuminating nature distracting with the most poor of recordings, the Anaxilus modification is one consideration of many. While we have typically resorted to cables, tube amps - sometimes going to the extent of selecting specific tubes to match the HD800 characteristics, none of these approaches requires any sort of handiwork on part of the listener other than plugging things in. This modification is more for those who are so inclined to visit the local crafts store and use a pair to scissors to painstakingly cut out a pattern. Because of the near perfection of the HD800, it would perfectly understandable if one wanted to outright dismiss this modification, or even think that any would be necessary other than appropriate matching of upstream gear, use of appropriate cables, and careful selection of the most pristine recordings. The fact that there are several real-world implementations of the modification with varying results, some with more deleterious effects than others, should be reason enough not to attempt it._
  
_This Anaxilus modification will to some extent make poor recordings more palatable on the HD800. There are some inconveniences though. Some may find that the slight dimming effect of the modification reduces the exuberance and liveliness of the HD800. Some who have tried the "rug liner" variation of modification have remarked that it reduces the width of the stage and the reverberous effect of the stock HD800, but with a possible upside of more a determinate or unequivocal placement of instruments on the stage. In regards to these differences in tonal balance and tradeoffs in headstage, we have to ask ourselves which is right? This we cannot answer and it is up to the listener to decide._
  
 Now let's compare to the first three substantive posts I made.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-appreciation-thread/9480#post_10392768
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-appreciation-thread/9510#post_10394910
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-appreciation-thread/9510#post_10394959
  
 Yeah right. **** me. I just can't be JA of Stereophile. I'm not British. And I was even very careful to dance around and not call the HD800 a fricking face-tweeter.


----------



## eantala

I recently ran the hd800 off a Jeff Korneff 45 tube integrated which is a 2watt/channel speaker amp just for kicks by  i putting a 8ohm resistor accross the speaker taps.
 The sound was pretty good but the problem is not practical to use this way long term.  The amp only has one set of speaker outputs and toggling back and forth between the headphones and speakers and taking the resistors on and off is a hassle.
  
 yea I'm still searching for a solid state integrated to replace my unit that died last month.  Would like to kill a 2 birds with one stone somethign like a Mcinstosh, Luxman or Accuphase long term would be cool.  Schiit Ragnrok Im not hearing too much about esp. with hd800 but anyone have any experience with something along those lines like a Audio GD Precision 1/2


----------



## ultrabike

failed engineer said:


> I listen to a lot of pop, soul, R&B, and hip-hop on my HD800s and I like it better than most all other headphones I've owned or heard (that includes all the flagships except for the HE-6).  And I listen to it with a stock cable and unmodded!


 

 Maybe your Metrum Hex pairs well w your HD800s


----------



## koiloco

purrin said:


> LOL. Let me rewrite my original post:
> 
> _For those who may find the HD800s illuminating nature distracting with the most poor of recordings, the Anaxilus modification is one consideration of many. While we have typically resorted to cables, tube amps - sometimes going to the extent of selecting specific tubes to match the HD800 characteristics, none of these approaches requires any sort of handiwork on part of the listener other than plugging things in. This modification is more for those who are so inclined to visit the local crafts store and use a pair to scissors to painstakingly cut out a pattern. Because of the near perfection of the HD800, it would perfectly understandable if one wanted to outright dismiss this modification, or even think that any would be necessary other than appropriate matching of upstream gear, use of appropriate cables, and careful selection of the most pristine recordings. The fact that there are several real-world implementations of the modification with varying results, some with more deleterious effects than others, should be reason enough not to attempt it._
> 
> ...


 





 Your honor, I rest my case and concede that HD800 is indeed a face-tweeter...


----------



## Kendoji

Bahaha 'fricking face-tweeter' cracked me up hard.


----------



## preproman

failed engineer said:


> I listen to a lot of pop, soul, R&B, and hip-hop on my HD800s and I like it better than most all other headphones I've owned or heard (*that includes all the flagships except for the HE-6)*.  And I listen to it with a stock cable and unmodded!


 
  
 Fo Sho....


----------



## icebear

koiloco said:


> Your honor, I rest my case and concede that HD800 is indeed a face-tweeter...


 
  
  


kendoji said:


> Bahaha *'fricking* face-tweeter' cracked me up hard.


 
  
 LOL, yeah never pull a quote out of context )).


----------



## koiloco

icebear said:


> LOL, yeah never pull a quote out of context )).


 

 This thread is getting heavy.  That was my attempt to lighten it up.  Epic fail?


----------



## skeptic

To the contrary, the thread just woke up and got interesting in my estimation.  I'll take animated, science-based (or at least related), substantive discussion over dreamy impressions and redundant generalizations any day of the week.


----------



## TwoEars

maconhel said:


> the HD800 is good with electronic?


 
  
 In fact... it's my favorite headphone for electronic music. Especially with a little bit of EQ.
  
 If you have electronic music with a lot of detail, ambience and soundstage they are amazing.
  
 Depeche mode, The XX, Cafe del mare, Sasha and John digweed... anything like that and they will shine.


----------



## Maxvla

UERM are better than HD800 on electronic. A bit more bass quantity and the 3D soundstage is perfect for music that has no stage in real life. You float around in the music. I give up a little detail from HD800s but the soundstage more than makes up for it. For any music that originated in real life, though, I prefer HD800 over UERM.


----------



## koiloco

skeptic said:


> To the contrary, the thread just woke up and got interesting in my estimation.  I'll take animated, science-based (or at least related), substantive discussion over dreamy impressions and redundant generalizations any day of the week.


 

 Unfortunately, the mod and all these discussions are way old and have been repeated over and over.  We are just beating a dead horse while raising up unnecessary emotion.  That's how I see it.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I can add this many of the so called issues of the hd800 is really related to the music chain and not the headphones. 
Both dacs and amps are to blame. If we had really good speakers and played something and it sounded horrible on our system. We would blame it on the music , DAC or amps. But with the hd800 it becomes just the headphones .

But that will just start another debate so let's not go there in this thread lol. 

Al


----------



## BournePerfect

I appreciate the HD800.


----------



## skeptic

koiloco said:


> Unfortunately, the mod and all these discussions are way old and have been repeated over and over.  We are just beating a dead horse while raising up unnecessary emotion.  That's how I see it.


 
  
 By that logic, we should just shut the site down and put an end to all these silly redundant discussions about headphones.  Been there done that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I see passion where you see unnecessary emotion.  There's nothing wrong with people stating their positions with conviction, especially if they can credibly back those positions up and reconcile them with reliable measurements or authorities, and provided we all steer clear of ad hominems.  You're still young to the thread.  Hang around for a few more years, and I imagine you will view the occasional lively debate as an interesting diversion rather than something that ruffles your feathers in a bad way.


----------



## MickeyVee

x2 - I appreciate them - I don't find them bright - they're great with electronic music - loving them with New Order - Deadmou5 - Avicii - ATB -
 Just enjoying them and watching the debates.
 I guess I'm not an audiophile 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I like my Grado RS1i too.
 OMG - I'm starting to write like Al.
 All in good fun and music appreciation
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Purrin - re your post a couple of pages back - I've gotta try the HDVD800 Balanced.
  
 Quote:


bourneperfect said:


> I appreciate the HD800.


----------



## palmfish

purrin said:


> It's like working with a sports car with too much understeer like the old Porsche 911s circa early 90s. One works with the suspension to try to fix it rather than buy a C4 Corvette.




When it was introduced in 1989, many people complained that the 964 C4 understeered, but that was just because they thought an AWD 911 was an abomination. But the 964 C4 did not have "too much understeer," it simply had less tendency to oversteer than the primitive torsion bar 911's that came before it.


----------



## NotaLefty

For anyone that has heard both, how does the HD700 compare to the HD800? Am I missing out on much?


----------



## Maxvla

It doesn't compare.


----------



## koiloco

skeptic said:


> By that logic, we should just shut the site down and put an end to all these silly redundant discussions about headphones.  Been there done that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Let's just say that I agree 50% with what you said. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I do have to ask you about your mainline though.
 How is it compared to amps you had before with the HD800?


----------



## Dionysus

You can also include me on the side of, I don't find them bright either, especially coming from HD700 which where brighter but I also enjoyed, and I don't consider myself a treble head by any stretch. 

I just ordered the HDVD800 ( thank you AL) and I'm really looking forward to next weekend. It also looks like by all accounts, I may have to spring for a set of balances cable too damn. 
 Man now I'm starting to Truly understand the term thrown around soft frequently here regrading my wallet, it hates me right now. 
Any recommendations on a set of balanced cables that don't cost the prices of a small compact car . 
I really am not a believer of the whole cable thing, for me it's more snake oil, with all due respect to those who have a different opinion. I just need a good quality cable that won't cost a fortune. Thanks in advance.


----------



## icebear

dionysus said:


> ...
> Any recommendations on a set of balanced cables that don't cost the prices of a small compact car
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry about your wallet mate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 I am in the process of ordering a cable from Norne Audio. From looking around, the price level seems to be reasonable.
 Others can easily go from $500 to $1200 depending on length and type of plugs.
 And more importantly I don't want to skew anything in the sound of the HD800.
 You will for sure enjoy it earlier than me whatever cable you go for, your amp will be there soon.
 A GS-X is not that easy to get ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 but then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Chodi

dionysus said:


> You can also include me on the side of, I don't find them bright either, especially coming from HD700 which where brighter but I also enjoyed, and I don't consider myself a treble head by any stretch.
> 
> I just ordered the HDVD800 ( thank you AL) and I'm really looking forward to next weekend. It also looks like by all accounts, I may have to spring for a set of balances cable too damn.
> Man now I'm starting to Truly understand the term thrown around soft frequently here regrading my wallet, it hates me right now.
> ...


 
 Here is a link:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5M-8Ft-Upgrade-Cable-For-SENNHEISER-HD800-with-Balanced-XLR-4pins-CANNON-PLUG-/221219807298?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item3381ba6042
  
 I am listening to them now through my Auralic Taurus. They sound great. I think we have the same opinion of "high end" cables. I am located in Asia but I did get very fast delivery by paying for the upgrade in shipping. After that I noticed that Tam is selling the same cable for much more.


----------



## Dionysus

I like the norne stuff looks very nice, the site is a little convoluted and hard to navigate properly, they seem to have just got that particular site going. Anyways still looking I have sometime any more recommendation welcomed please.


----------



## ModestMeowth

Quick question, how easy would it be to blow the drivers with a Crack + Speedball? I ask because I have my knob set at 6 o clock being zero volume and listen to it around a 7:30 with a bugle boy. Last night I paused my music and put in an E80CC Siemens which has a louder volume and hit play. It was quite the shock and I quickly turned down the volume. Does the sudden burst of sound damage the drivers vs a gradual increase in volume?


----------



## purrin

If speaker dynamic drivers are any indication, I've never killed a driver with sudden bursts. The voice coil winding only goes so far so over-excursion is unlikely - the driver surround will keep the diaphragm in place. 
  
 I have killed drivers with sustained high power though. Voice coil overheats and "melts".


----------



## SoupRKnowva

dionysus said:


> Any recommendations on a set of balanced cables that don't cost the prices of a small compact car
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 




You can always just reterminate the stock cable and make a balanced to TRS adaptor with the cable that you cut off to reterminate. Thats what I had done.


----------



## Kendoji

Forza cables are quite reasonably priced, compared to other boutique cable makers.


----------



## bearFNF

'Q' french silk are nice, also.


----------



## LugBug1

bearfnf said:


> 'Q' french silk are nice, also.


 
 Are we still talking about cables, or stockings? Coz if its the latter... Yeah baby..


----------



## punit

Am using Toxic Cables Silver Poison. Have noticed a bit more top end extension & air compared to stock but without any sibilance (which was my biggest concern when ordering a silver cable).


----------



## LugBug1

purrin said:


> If speaker dynamic drivers are any indication, I've never killed a driver with sudden bursts. The voice coil winding only goes so far so over-excursion is unlikely - the driver surround will keep the diaphragm in place.
> 
> I have killed drivers with sustained high power though. Voice coil overheats and "melts".


 
 This is something I've been wanting to find out about. Basically how tough are the HD800's? Because there isn't any documented cases of blown drivers (not that I can find anyhow) I know they were designed to not break up at volumes that their previous hp's would. Does this mean that the only damage you could do is by feeding them too much voltage? And if so, could I fry my HD800's if my son decides to turn up my vintage dedicated amp all the way? I'm paranoid he's going to do this... These old amps are a lot louder than normal hp amps.


----------



## MIKELAP

lugbug1 said:


> This is something I've been wanting to find out about. Basically how tough are the HD800's? Because there isn't any documented cases of blown drivers (not that I can find anyhow) I know they were designed to not break up at volumes that their previous hp's would. Does this mean that the only damage you could do is by feeding them too much voltage? And if so, could I fry my HD800's if my son decides to turn up my vintage dedicated amp all the way? I'm paranoid he's going to do this... These old amps are a lot louder than normal hp amps.


 
     My son is 30 years old and admiited to me a couple years ago that it was he who put a dent in one of  the tweeters of my precious JBL L100  when he was 10 years old  .What goes around comes around because now there his and he's the one stuck with a dented tweeter .


----------



## longbowbbs

punit said:


> Am using Toxic Cables Silver Poison. Have noticed a bit more top end extension & air compared to stock but without any sibilance (which was my biggest concern when ordering a silver cable).


 
 I have the Silver Widows and they are sublime....


----------



## LugBug1

mikelap said:


> My son is 30 years old and admiited to me a couple years ago that it was he who put a dent in one of  the tweeters of my precious JBL L100  when he was 10 years old  .What goes around comes around because now there his and he's the one stuck with a dented tweeter .


 
 Haha bless him! 
  
 I try and keep my 2 year old off my gear, but sometimes I catch him messing with the knobs and volume.... Might have to invest in a cage of some kind. (for my rig of course


----------



## 62ohm

Been listening to some Joe Satriani, am I the only one who thinks the HD800 sounds a bit.....off with it? It doesn't 'shine' as well as Classical IMO.


----------



## punit

Quote:


mikelap said:


> My son is 30 years old and admiited to me a couple years ago that it was he who put a dent in one of  the tweeters of my precious JBL L100  when he was 10 years old  .What goes around comes around because now there his and he's the one stuck with a dented tweeter .


 
 I have a dent on my PSB Synchrony One tweeter which neither of my kids (7 & 4 yrs) claim to know anything about 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Grills stay on from that day onwards when I am not listening.
  


lugbug1 said:


> Haha bless him!
> 
> I try and keep my 2 year old off my gear, but sometimes I catch him messing with the knobs and volume.... Might have to invest in a cage of some kind. (for my rig of course


 

 LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had all my equipment placed  4 feet of the ground when they were toddlers.


----------



## LugBug1

punit said:


> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Good thinking haha. I hate giving him wrong when he touches stuff because he's only copying his dad.... But one day he'll understand  
  


62ohm said:


> Been listening to some Joe Satriani, am I the only one who thinks the HD800 sounds a bit.....off with it? It doesn't 'shine' as well as Classical IMO.


 
 Lets ask the greatest rock'n'roll band in the world shall we?
  

  
 Sounds pretty good to me!


----------



## longbowbbs

62ohm said:


> Been listening to some Joe Satriani, am I the only one who thinks the HD800 sounds a bit.....off with it? It doesn't 'shine' as well as Classical IMO.


 
 I listen to Joe all the time and they sound great.....HD800's are chain dependent though....


----------



## 62ohm

longbowbbs said:


> I listen to Joe all the time and they sound great.....HD800's are chain dependent though....


 
  
 I think my WA3 is the culprit, the bass sounds loose and muddy compared to WA6.


----------



## punit

62ohm said:


> I think my WA3 is the culprit, the bass sounds loose and muddy compared to WA6.


 

 What Power tubes are you using ?


----------



## longbowbbs

62ohm said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I listen to Joe all the time and they sound great.....HD800's are chain dependent though....
> ...


 
 That makes more sense....I would never describe the 800's as muddy.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

The HD800. Are an extremely detailed , airy , fast , large staging headphone period. Anything different or less is in the chain. And they are fantastic with any genre , it's just people want all the music to sound fantastic on them. Well it will not. The answer lies in many places , Within the chain and sometimes the recording. 
I am not saying we all should spend mega bucks on devices to make them shine. A little EQ can make most rigs sound much better. Regarding tube amps , they are the most Versatel and also the most difficult to get correct. As tubes are great I think it is much Easer to just buy a proven amp. And the myth of the tubes warms them up a bit is bull. EQ is a far better way to warm them up on what ever music we are using at that time. The above info is not a rant and just my own personnel view on the HD800. 

Al


----------



## 62ohm

punit said:


> What Power tubes are you using ?


 
  
 Tung Sol 7236


----------



## longbowbbs

I love the synergy with the 800's and my Cary SLI-80....The KT88's make the 800's sing.


----------



## BournePerfect

alrainbow said:


> The HD800. Are an extremely detailed , airy , fast , large staging headphone period. Anything different or less is in the chain. And they are fantastic with any genre , it's just people want all the music to sound fantastic on them. Well it will not. The answer lies in many places , Within the chain and sometimes the recording.
> I am not saying we all should spend mega bucks on devices to make them shine. A little EQ can make most rigs sound much better. Regarding tube amps , they are the most Versatel and also the most difficult to get correct. As tubes are great I think it is much Easer to just buy a proven amp. And the myth of the tubes warms them up a bit is bull. EQ is a far better way to warm them up on what ever music we are using at that time. The above info is not a rant and just my own personnel view on the HD800.
> 
> Al




Sorry-I need a limerick or haiku to decifer this. Pretty please.

-Daniel


----------



## longbowbbs

bourneperfect said:


> alrainbow said:
> 
> 
> > The HD800. Are an extremely detailed , airy , fast , large staging headphone period. Anything different or less is in the chain. And they are fantastic with any genre , it's just people want all the music to sound fantastic on them. Well it will not. The answer lies in many places , Within the chain and sometimes the recording.
> ...


 
 There once was an airy 800.....


----------



## Kendoji

Who sounded as bright as the sun did...


----------



## koiloco

longbowbbs said:


> There once was an airy 800.....


 
 lol...
  
 Heck with HD800 today, 2.1 is rocking the house this morning.  I am feeling the bass on my body with some Daft Punk.


----------



## rgs9200m

alrainbow said:


> And the myth of the tubes warms them up a bit is bull.


 
 This is so true.... That blanket impression of tubes has become an urban myth.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Well I got one right lol. What can I say not much in English hahaha. 

Al


----------



## nigeljames

Yes, just like the assumption that SS is normally bright, thin and harsh.
  
 Both myths are of a bygone age.


----------



## LugBug1

alrainbow said:


> Well I got one right lol. What can I say not much in English hahaha.
> 
> Al


 
  
 LOL
 I'm pleased you've got a good sense of humour! You are becoming one of my fave head-fiers


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yes but 60% entertainment value and 40 % information. Hahaha. It's all good. 

Al


----------



## LugBug1

alrainbow said:


> Yes but 60% entertainment value and 40 % information. Hahaha. It's all good.
> 
> Al


 
 Yes but that's what we need on this thread!


----------



## seb7

bourneperfect said:


> I appreciate the HD800.


 
  
 lol. What thread is this again?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

The some what eclectic , eccentric and most illiterate but highly functional and makes a good living thread. 

Al


----------



## icebear

LOL and no spell check 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I guess that contributes to the entertainment factor - it's like tube rolling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

In the pics above I am playing around . Going from the two different dacs both input with the AES. from the offramp. 

It's a close race both pretty good I think the M7 is a little warmer of neutral , and maybe a deeper bass overall because of it . Now the HDVD 800 AES input seems a little more detailed and more separation of the details. Just food for thought and only doing the AES INPUT S 

Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Of course spell check is on in my iPad. It's just the damn English language has too many words that seem ok but wrong meaning. 

Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Big shout out to dac ladder. The HDMI works great and now HDMI M7 to AES HDVD800. The M7 is a clear winner. The overall weight of the presentation of the M7 is just much more appealing over the slightly more detailed presentation of the HDVD800. Both DACS using the AMP of the HDVD800. And HD800 .

Al


----------



## preproman

Those are some fast impressions.  All in under an hour..


----------



## ALRAINBOW

No I'm here since about 1 pm playing with this stuff. But I do use them often it's just today I have the time to do and A/B thing. As for switching as I am using the same amp it's just a knob and easy to hear. I'll say this the HD800 are pretty good. As for the dacs with the offramp they pretty good too. And this is just my twisted view not clamping to be gospel 

Al


----------



## Sonido

alrainbow said:


> Yes but 60% entertainment value and 40 % information. Hahaha. It's all good.
> 
> Al



Ok I got a serious suggestion. I'm want to make it clear that I'm in no way being sarcastic or joking when I say this. When you do the line break thing, you should consider going back and trying to add some rhymes at the end of each line if it's not too difficult. Obviously some people on here are annoyed when you do the line break thing, but I think if you instead make it a poem each time, everyone will think that is pretty awesome. You will live up to your avatar of being the Joker then.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

What's a line brake ? 

I am running away while it's safe to. 

Al


----------



## Sonido

alrainbow said:


> What's a line brake ?
> 
> I am running away while it's safe to.
> 
> Al



Simply the enter button to start typing on a new line. Wait don't tell me one of your devices does this automatically for you?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

So what you are typing is the words should 
Just continue , even if it's a different thought. 

Like this no good 
And this is ok. Why is does it bother people 
??


----------



## punit

alrainbow said:


> So what you are typing is the words should
> Just continue , even if it's a different thought.
> 
> Like this no good
> ...


 

 Sometimes people need something else to complain about other than the 6KHz peak


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Now that's funny. I do the line breaks to help 
Me spell check. The I phone or pad does it but sometimes 
Because of my horrific spelling it picks the wrong word. 
That is the truth but what is amusing me. 
I constantly read misinformation on threads 
And I do think other new people reading this stuff is just not cool. It's just leading them 
Down the wrong path. 
But I will try to cool it with the breaks 
But looks funny to me. 

Al


----------



## LugBug1

^^^Now that was poetry^^^


----------



## LugBug1

To live with the HD800,
 Is to die with a lesser phone,
 A window to the soul of music..
 A tool to lay bare the truth,
 Thy will hold onto thee -
 as thy is a geek..
 Just don't mention the screwing 6khz peak.


----------



## Anda

Compared to hifimanrookie, the way Al is writing is pure art


----------



## TwoEars

O HD800! My HD800! Our fearful trip is done.
 Our ears have heard every pair, the prize we sought is won.
 Bliss is near, the bells I hear, the music all exalted,
 While follow eyes the lofty AMP, the DAC gold and silver;
                          But O heart! heart! heart!
                             O the bleeding drops of red,
                                Where on the floor my Wallet lies,
                                   Fallen cold and dead.


----------



## pearljam50000

I have read a couple of timrs that each psir sonuds differently.
How much does the sound vary, and should it worry anyone interested in getting a pair?
Thanks.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Now i know why I line him. Hahahahaha


----------



## LugBug1

pearljam50000 said:


> I have read a couple of timrs that each psir sonuds differently.
> How much does the sound vary, and should it worry anyone interested in getting a pair?
> Thanks.


 
 How to kill the moment bud 
 There is no sound variation according to the more experienced head-fiers who have tried many pairs. Seriously I wouldn't worry about that. Sennheiser have an exceptional reputation in regards to quality control and consistency, with the HD800) 
  


alrainbow said:


> Now i know why I line him. Hahahahaha


----------



## longbowbbs

lugbug1 said:


> To live with the HD800,
> Is to die with a lesser phone,
> A window to the soul of music..
> A tool to lay bare the truth,
> ...


 
 There once was an HD800 from
 Nantucket.....
  
  
  
 Did I do that right?


----------



## LugBug1

longbowbbs said:


> There once was an HD800 from
> Nantucket.....
> 
> 
> ...


 
 LMAO!


----------



## pearljam50000

Sorry LugBug1


----------



## sethbc

got the HD800 a week ago, i have to say i'm extremely impressed with the cans through the vali.  very good pairing.


----------



## kazsud

alrainbow said:


> I can add this many of the so called issues of the hd800 is really related to the music chain and not the headphones.
> Both dacs and amps are to blame. If we had really good speakers and played something and it sounded horrible on our system. We would blame it on the music , DAC or amps. But with the hd800 it becomes just the headphones .
> 
> But that will just start another debate so let's not go there in this thread lol.
> ...


 

Right on the $


----------



## Audio Jester

ALRAINBOW love your work man! The greatest thing about your writing style is that it leads people to seek the deeper meaning in your words.... Even if there isn't one.


----------



## Dionysus

punit said:


> Sometimes people need something else to complain about other than the 6KHz peak




Hahhaha , this is funny, by the way AL it's all good meng I love your post.


----------



## longbowbbs

punit said:


> alrainbow said:
> 
> 
> > So what you are typing is the words should
> ...


 
 Would that be a fit of Peak?


----------



## gjcsima

Has anyone tried using an equalizer for the tonal imbalances of certain amps that have enough power, speed and dynamics to drive not just the HD800 but some orthodynamics/planars?


----------



## Trey36

, I've only had my HD800 for a week with about 30hrs of burn in. When it comes to the sound, somewhat impressed but when it comes to comfort and quality I'm a Sennheiser Customer for life. 

Since these headphones have been out for almost five years now. Does anyone know when the next generation will be released?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Of course many here have used EQ. . But consider the headphones are not imbalanced , so make your adjustments on how it sounds good to you . Not how someone tells you it should sound. Also try taking away rather then adding . Find tracks you know well and play and enjoy . If adding try doing the lower octave from 60 up to about 300. This will take away the highs a little and maybe give you a better sound for U.

Al


----------



## MIKELAP

I own a pair of HD800 that i run with a Burson Conductor and a WA2 this weekend i had a revelation. I went to the  Montreal  audio show to try all the top end HP  Abyss Stax, Audeze's ,Grado's ects,  i came out of there a changed man why you ask because i discovered audio is just hype .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I get to the Woo Audio room what do i see a pair of Abyss HP plugged into WA5 i was all excited i said to myself man this is going to be something else ,WRONG what i discovered because this was the first time i actually went to an audio show and listened to all those HP, is that audio deals in subtilitys and they are  charging thousands for it what a rip . So this system will be end game  for me i am happy to say because for thousands more those HP are simply not worth it .


----------



## Maxvla

mikelap said:


> I own a pair of HD800 that i run with a Burson Conductor and a WA2 this weekend i had a revelation. I went to the  Montreal  audio show to try all the top end HP  Abyss Stax, Audeze's ,Grado's ects,  i came out of there a changed man why you ask because i discovered audio is just hype .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I get to the Woo Audio room what do i see a pair of Abyss HP plugged into WA5 i was all excited i said to myself man this is going to be something else ,WRONG what i discovered because this was the first time i actually went to an audio show and listened to all those HP, is that audio deals in subtilitys and they are  charging thousands for it what a rip . So this system will be end game  for me i am happy to say because for thousands more those HP are simply not worth it .



This is because you already owned the superior headphone.


----------



## 62ohm

maxvla said:


> This is because you already owned the superior headphone.


 
  
 +1 lol, the HD800 measures much better than the Abyss. In other word, it is *technically *superior.


----------



## verber

mikelap said:


> I own a pair of HD800 that i run with a Burson Conductor and a WA2 this weekend i had a revelation. I went to the  Montreal  audio show to try all the top end HP  Abyss Stax, Audeze's ,Grado's ects,  i came out of there a changed man why you ask because i discovered audio is just hype .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I get to the Woo Audio room what do i see a pair of Abyss HP plugged into WA5 i was all excited i said to myself man this is going to be something else ,WRONG what i discovered because this was the first time i actually went to an audio show and listened to all those HP, is that audio deals in subtilitys and they are  charging thousands for it what a rip . So this system will be end game  for me i am happy to say because for thousands more those HP are simply not worth it .


 
  
 I would point out that the HD800 aren't exactly cheap.  It's not surprising that you didn't find another pair of headphones which blew you away. I would argue that the HD800 are one of the 5 best headphones on the planet (with Stax SR-007, SR-009, Audeze LCD-X, and HiFiman HE-6) and are the best headphones built with a dynamic driver.  I thought the blog by Tyll and it's link to The State of the Flasgship Headphones was an interesting look at the top end headphones currently on the market. There are some tracks I prefer each of the other headphones to the HD800 (and other than soundstage I prefer the SR-009 in every case to the HD800 - but at tpo high of a cost for me to justify) . Overall sounds, the HD800 are my second favorite headphones after the SR-009, and are my favorite when factoring in cost, comfort, ease of driving, etc.
  
 The HD800 scales well.  I found they sound just fine from something like a DragonFly DAC into a modest amps built around the Gilmore Dynalo design, the Headamp PicoPower, M^3, Bottlehead Crack, even the Objective O2 amp.  So I am not particularly surprised tha the Conductor or the WA2 could be an end-game for you.
  
 Since the HD800 scales well, my experience is that a higher quality amplifier will sound better than the more modest amplifiers, and that for me the Headamp GS-Xmk2 sounds better that every higher-quality amplifier I have heard, but it's a game of  diminishing returns.  Sounds like you have found a performance level that is good for you at a price you are comfortable paying.  That's great.  No need to continue to hunt.  Now rather than futzing with equipment you can make use of what you have, and direct your money to music (or other things in life) which is great,
  
 I would note that while audio shows are useful to let you get impressions, when you are into the diminishing returns level of performance, it often takes more time, and a quieter environment to fully appreciate the differences between better quality amplifiers.  For many people, those differences might not be worth the cost difference.  For some of us, the extra performance is worth the cost and time.
  
 --mark


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Now what you are saying is true. There is a lot of bull in cables no doubt. But there is better and worse. Example I just a few post,s on how the hdvd800 sounds with the hd800 . It's own dac and a M7 dac. I first tried a AES cable it really was for interconnects of XlR style Balance . Well three cables they sounded horrible . I picked another and whole different sound. Now these are not dat aes cables but it did matter. I have a couple of data AES CABLES . Wow they sounded even better . So my point is there is something to it. But of course someone buys a 1500 one and I laugh. I do HT as well , but my real trade is LISC electrical contractor . Power is another story , I have not heard any improvement in power cords but plenty in power conditioning . As in ps audio power plants .
Al


----------



## philo50

alrainbow said:


>





> As in ps audio power plants .
> Al


 
 +1 on the Power Plants....


----------



## ALRAINBOW

G man. If there is a next it is the HE6. They are great as well. But not as fast but a lot more body. 

Al


----------



## Maxvla

thegovernment said:


> because I like my 800s. I only said I didnt think there wasnt a big difference in amps and there is a ton of snake oil in the indrustry. So what, there is, just because people choose not to believe it, doesnt mean its not true. Then the audiofools jumped in.
> To be honest, Im much more of a HT guy. Ive been building and designing home theater subs for the last 15 years. Audio break-in, superior power etc are laughable and proven to be false. Yet people will swear their headphones/speakers break in, in the seconds it takes for the speaker to loosen up, that would have been done at the factory. If companys made drivers that changed that much over time, they wouldnt be in business very long.
> You have to question why break-in is always a positive thing, why "better" cables are superior in sound, expensive amps always result in better sound. etc
> If an amp colors the sound enough to be vastly different than another, you have a broken amp. It should do no more than amplify the signal it recieves.
> ...



I agree with you on many points, but the difference is I don't spit in people's faces.


----------



## koiloco

maxvla said:


> I agree with you on many points, but the difference is *I don't spit in people's faces.*


 
 Sometimes, we need that to really wake up.  This society in general is becoming too politically correct, IMO.


----------



## BournePerfect

Generally you want more than a 3-5 posts as a new rule to begin spitting contests. Forum etiquette and whatnot.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## 62ohm

So after expanding my lossless collection even further (100gb now, I know it's not much compared to other people here), I've now decided to put the blame of the at times peaky highs on the recordings (Ed Sheeran, Genesis and some of Clapton are probably the worst). I have no problem with other music at all (I don't even have any problem with Jethro Tull).
  
 I guess the headphone is not the one to put the blame on..


----------



## drez

62ohm said:


> So after expanding my lossless collection even further (100gb now, I know it's not much compared to other people here), I've now decided to put the blame of the at times peaky highs on the recordings (Ed Sheeran, Genesis and some of Clapton are probably the worst). I have no problem with other music at all (I don't even have any problem with Jethro Tull).
> 
> I guess the headphone is not the one to put the blame on..


 
  
 Sometimes it's the recording, sometimes its the equipment; IMO the HD800's are very well controlled, even more so once modified.  They are so revealing and neutral - they tell it like it is.


----------



## preproman

alrainbow said:


> G man. If there is a next it is the HE6. They are great as well. But not as fast but a lot more body.
> 
> Al


 
  
 Explain not as fast.  I would like to know what music the HE-6 can't keep up on?


----------



## kazsud

mikelap said:


> I own a pair of HD800 that i run with a Burson Conductor and a WA2 this weekend i had a revelation. I went to the  Montreal  audio show to try all the top end HP  Abyss Stax, Audeze's ,Grado's ects,  i came out of there a changed man why you ask because i discovered audio is just hype .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I get to the Woo Audio room what do i see a pair of Abyss HP plugged into WA5 i was all excited i said to myself man this is going to be something else ,WRONG what i discovered because this was the first time i actually went to an audio show and listened to all those HP, is that audio deals in subtilitys and they are  charging thousands for it what a rip . So this system will be end game  for me i am happy to say because for thousands more those HP are simply not worth it .



 


The abyss were the worst headphones I head on the Wa234. Don't judge any amp off the abyss.


----------



## abhinit90

About to pull the plug on these as I'm getting them for a decent price.
  
 I've read a LOT about these, but most of my songs are either metal, melodic death metal, and rock. A lot of mixed genres and instrumentals too. But I have a sweet place in my heart for metal, how do the cans fare with them?
  
 Also I won't be upgrading my components in the near future. Have an Aune T1 and a Vali, worth getting a HD800?


----------



## longbowbbs

abhinit90 said:


> About to pull the plug on these as I'm getting them for a decent price.
> 
> I've read a LOT about these, but most of my songs are either metal, melodic death metal, and rock. A lot of mixed genres and instrumentals too. But I have a sweet place in my heart for metal, how do the cans fare with them?
> 
> Also I won't be upgrading my components in the near future. Have an Aune T1 and a Vali, worth getting a HD800?


 
 HD800's kick *** for metal.....


----------



## koiloco

preproman said:


> Explain not as fast.  I would like to know what music the HE-6 can't keep up on?


 
 +1


----------



## abhinit90

longbowbbs said:


> HD800's kick *** for metal.....


 

 Thank you mate,hope to be a new entrant into this world. Hard to justify the price though :|
  
 any idea about source?


----------



## longbowbbs

abhinit90 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > HD800's kick *** for metal.....
> ...


 
 Any dealer is going to charge list. Sometimes you can find a good deal via Audiogon.com. Also, check with any local dealer about trading in another piece of gear. I swapped in a piece of used gear in near mint condition and got a nice trade in value.


----------



## abhinit90

longbowbbs said:


> Any dealer is going to charge list. Sometimes you can find a good deal via Audiogon.com. Also, check with any local dealer about trading in another piece of gear. I swapped in a piece of used gear in near mint condition and got a nice trade in value.


 

 I'm getting them for about 920 usd shipped but that's a lot for me. Considering I won't be buying any cables, amps or dacs for it :|


----------



## longbowbbs

abhinit90 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Any dealer is going to charge list. Sometimes you can find a good deal via Audiogon.com. Also, check with any local dealer about trading in another piece of gear. I swapped in a piece of used gear in near mint condition and got a nice trade in value.
> ...


 
 That is a fantastic price....It may be expensive, but you will have them for years!


----------



## abhinit90

longbowbbs said:


> That is a fantastic price....It may be expensive, but you will have them for years!


 

 the thought of a new flagship down the line in a couple of years (highly unlikely) makes me a bit un-nerved. And that I won't be able to sell it, nor will I be able to upgrade my source
  
 but who am I kidding


----------



## longbowbbs

abhinit90 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > That is a fantastic price....It may be expensive, but you will have them for years!
> ...


 
 The "Threat" of newer and better is always there in this hobby....I still use the HD650's regular...Great gear still sounds great even when a successor arrives.


----------



## nigeljames

longbowbbs said:


> HD800's kick *** for metal.....


 
  
 + 1


----------



## nigeljames

koiloco said:


> +1


 
  
 The HD800's do sound faster because they are leaner than the HE6's but I have not found anything the HE6's can't keep up with, so the point is moot IMO.


----------



## longbowbbs

nigeljames said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > HD800's kick *** for metal.....
> ...


 
 New Priest coming this year Nigel!!


----------



## nigeljames

longbowbbs said:


> New Priest coming this year Nigel!!


 
  
 Actually, never really been a fan.


----------



## longbowbbs

nigeljames said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > New Priest coming this year Nigel!!
> ...


 
 and you from Birmingham....What is the world coming to?


----------



## preproman

Leaner doesn't make them faster - it just makes them leaner.


----------



## BournePerfect

He said it was a moot point, and that they just sound (seem) faster because they are leaner. Nobody's attacking your preciousness Prep. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Trey36

Thanks for the tip, I didn't even think about using an EQ. I do enjoy the sound and can easily close my eyes and get lost in it. I think I just prefer closed headphones, but that is just a personal preference. I will keep pushing them on a daily basis to see if 50+ hrs of burn in improves my impressions. 
  
 Thanks again


----------



## preproman

bourneperfect said:


> He said it was a moot point, and that they just sound (seem) faster because they are leaner. Nobody's attacking your preciousness Prep.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  I hear ya Daniel..


----------



## SoupRKnowva

I have also been enjoying my 800s with some metal since that is the majority of what I listen too. Still waiting on the movers to get me my 009s back though, then the comparison can take place!


----------



## TwoEars

abhinit90 said:


> the thought of a new flagship down the line in a couple of years (highly unlikely) makes me a bit un-nerved. And that I won't be able to sell it, nor will I be able to upgrade my source
> 
> but who am I kidding


 
  
 The HD800 is going to be a classic headphone is its own right, I'm not sure if I'll ever sell mine. Just as I don't think I'll ever sell my HD650's.


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> HD800's kick *** for metal.....


 
 I always liked the hd650's for metal. For most metal i would pick the 650's over the 800, just because a lot of the metal that i listen isn't recorded the best or is treble heavy - that can be a nightmare on HD800 - even with a WA2 to warm them up. 
  
 The 650's give metal recordings a nice meaty body. 
  
  
 In saying that  (Tool - A perfect Circle - 1 or 2 Pantera Albums - Megadeths countdown) and a few other albums like Porcupine trees fear of a blank planet all sound great with HD800


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > HD800's kick *** for metal.....
> ...


 
 I listen tot the 800's at home and the 650's on the road...Nice balance.


----------



## drez

when we are talking about the speed of the HD800 and HE-6 re we talking about impulse speed or decay characteristics?  
  
 IIRC HE-6 has faster impulse response but it rings for longer, so yes I tend to agree HE-6 is faster in this way, but the faster decay of HD800 is what makes them sound more agile.


----------



## Blasyrkh

drez said:


> when we are talking about the speed of the HD800 and HE-6 re we talking about impulse speed or decay characteristics?
> 
> IIRC HE-6 has faster impulse response but it rings for longer, so yes I tend to agree HE-6 is faster in this way, but the faster decay of HD800 is what makes them sound more agile.


 
  
 aren't the orthos and estats stiffer than dynamic ones when we talk about decay??


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> I listen tot the 800's at home and the 650's on the road...Nice balance.


 
 used to do that myself. Then i sold the 650's


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I listen tot the 800's at home and the 650's on the road...Nice balance.
> ...


 
 I don't see that happening around here....


----------



## nigeljames

longbowbbs said:


> and you from Birmingham....What is the world coming to?


 
  
 Ha ha ha....come to think of it I don't like Black Sabbath much either.


----------



## eantala

anyone have driect experience using the Chord Hugo with hd800.
 this Hugo looks very interesting the type of product Ive been waiting for for a long time,
  
 anyone have any feeback?


----------



## subtle

nigeljames said:


> Ha ha ha....come to think of it I don't like Black Sabbath much either.


 
  
 This guy needs to be banned.


----------



## nigeljames

subtle said:


> This guy needs to be banned.


 
  
 +1..  Hold on, you are talking about me!


----------



## Feynman

Hi!  
  
 I've been leaning back and forth between the HD800 and the Audeze LCD2/X for a long time and right now I'm leaning towards the HD800. I have a pair of HD650 that I am very happy with and I like sennheiser quite a lot. Another factor which favors the HD800 is that it is much easier to get here i Scandinavia compared to the Audeze headphones. 
  
 I've got a Schiit Vali incoming which, as I've understood, I will be very happy with. However, I only have a musicstreamer II DAC, what would the logical step up be regarding DAC? 
  
 Thanks


----------



## holeout

eantala said:


> anyone have driect experience using the Chord Hugo with hd800.
> this Hugo looks very interesting the type of product Ive been waiting for for a long time,
> 
> anyone have any feeback?


 
 The Hugo is the best portable dac/amp for the HD800 I heard so far. Excellent tonal balance, extension, bass impact and abundant power to drive the HD800, Lcd  X .... Took me 40 secs to take out my wallet when trying the Hugo with my HD 800 in the shop.


----------



## Maxvla

blasyrkh said:


> aren't the orthos and estats stiffer than dynamic ones when we talk about decay??



No, HD800s out-do them in decay.


----------



## Blasyrkh

maxvla said:


> No, HD800s out-do them in decay.


 
  
 actually it's what i meant...stiffer is intended as a bad thing


----------



## Maxvla

eantala said:


> anyone have driect experience using the Chord Hugo with hd800.
> this Hugo looks very interesting the type of product Ive been waiting for for a long time,
> 
> anyone have any feeback?



I thought it sounded good, but not great. There is a lot of tech packed into a small box, but it didn't seem to drive HD800s as well as I'm used to, from desktop gear. I think a desktop setup of separates totaling the price of the Hugo out-performs it quite easily. If you need a transportable rig, it would do a good job, but don't expect perfection. I also was not thrilled by the construction. It's basically a PCB inside a poorly fitting, cheap feeling plastic shell, with gimmicky lights and volume controls.

I'd never bother with a transportable rig consisting of HD800s and a Hugo and a laptop/tablet/DAP. I'd have a pair of custom IEMs straight into a phone or DAP; small, light, easy to pack, blocks out noise.


----------



## roguegeek

Put together a Bottlehead Crack this past weekend. Wasn't expecting much out of it and that's I thought it would be a fun project vs it being an effective amp. I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised with the result of pairing it with the HD 800. Warms it up and darkens it quite a bit, so people who prefer that signature would be happy, I think. My preference is for a lot less coloration, but the majority of my equipment is aimed at keeping things fairly neutral, so I think I'm going to keep modifying the Crack for even more warmth just so I have something different. We'll see what happens through the Speedball upgrade and tube rolling. Out of all the cans I ran on it, the HD 800 definitely felt like it paired the best, so thumbs up on that combination.


----------



## frankrondaniel

roguegeek said:


> Put together a Bottlehead Crack this past weekend. Wasn't expecting much out of it and that's I thought it would be a fun project vs it being an effective amp. I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised with the result of pairing it with the HD 800. Warms it up and darkens it quite a bit, so people who prefer that signature would be happy, I think. My preference is for a lot less coloration, but the majority of my equipment is aimed at keeping things fairly neutral, so I think I'm going to keep modifying the Crack for even more warmth just so I have something different. We'll see what happens through the Speedball upgrade and tube rolling. Out of all the cans I ran on it, the HD 800 definitely felt like it paired the best, so thumbs up on that combination.


 
  
 How difficult was it to put together?  I received on as a gift this past Christmas but haven't had a chance to build it yet.  I'm very curious to hear how it pairs with the 800's.


----------



## eantala

maxvla said:


> I thought it sounded good, but not great. There is a lot of tech packed into a small box, but it didn't seem to drive HD800s as well as I'm used to, from desktop gear. I think a desktop setup of separates totaling the price of the Hugo out-performs it quite easily. If you need a transportable rig, it would do a good job, but don't expect perfection. I also was not thrilled by the construction. It's basically a PCB inside a poorly fitting, cheap feeling plastic shell, with gimmicky lights and volume controls.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd never bother with a transportable rig consisting of HD800s and a Hugo and a laptop/tablet/DAP. I'd have a pair of custom IEMs straight into a phone or DAP; small, light, easy to pack, blocks out noise.



 


what you said kind of put things into perspective and brought me back to senses. I been researching this thing all morning but had to rethink what I'd get out of something that's mainly designed for portability (which I don't need). I definately wouldn't take the hd800 anywhere outside my home, I'd would just go with my IEMs/Colorfly c4 Dap on the road. 

I'm liquidating alot of stuff in order to buy some new things but I guess I should look at the application I need them for a little better. Im still in search of that perfect amp/dac to put in front of the hd800.


----------



## verber

eantala said:


> anyone have driect experience using the Chord Hugo with hd800.
> this Hugo looks very interesting the type of product Ive been waiting for for a long time,
> 
> anyone have any feeback?


 
  
 my reaction is similar to Maxvla's though I would separate DAC performance from the headphone amplifier. I though the DAC was pretty good, competitive with my Lavry DA11.  The headphone amplifier though definitive was a step down the Headamp GS-X mk2.  I didn't do blind A/B tests, but based on a lot of past listening I would say the headphone amplifier built into my DA11 and a number of headphone amplifiers including the Headamp's Pico Power were better than the Hugo.
  
 Compared to one of the more popular portable options, the HiFi-M8, the Hugo's DAC is significantly better than the DAC with the amplifier seemed to be a bit better than the HiFi-M8.  I wrote a bit about doing an A/B against the HiFi-M8 in the Chord thread.
  
 You could get a better desktop DAC for the cost of the Hugo.  You could even get a better desktop DAC and have enough money to purchase something like the HiFi-M8.
  
 If you have unlimited cash, or mostly listen to your HD800 in more than one fixed location the Hugo would be a good option.
  
 For real portability you would be better off with custom IEM from a phone or DAP, but I understand the value of HD800 which can be transported between different rooms at home or the office, and for this, the Hugo is the best thing going today.  If the amplifier was better I would have sold my GS-Xmk2 and HiFi-M8 and made the Hugo my sole headphone solution.  Alas, that's not the case, so rather than using my money for the best combo product (good DAC that's portable) I am going to pick up the a better DAC value which makes the HD800 shine which feeds into a desktop headphone amp which is the very best to my ears, and settle for slightly less sound quality when transporting the HD800 around the house and continue to use the HiFi-M8.
  
 --mark


----------



## TwoEars

I wonder if anyone has ever tried to mod the HD800 to be a closed set of cans? Then I would understand all this talk about portable dacs and the HD800 better.
  
 Strange question I know, just curious... what it would sound like... no I'm not going to do it... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I guess cupping your hands around the outside while wearing them gives a pretty good approximation.


----------



## magiccabbage

twoears said:


> I wonder if anyone has ever tried to mod the HD800 to be a closed set of cans? Then I would understand all this talk about portable dacs and the HD800 better.
> 
> Strange question I know, just curious... what it would sound like... no I'm not going to do it...
> 
> ...


 
 Cupping your hands around them makes them sound like crap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  Amazing how bad they sound when you cover the grill


----------



## Stapsy

I have had good success placing a medium size cardboard box over my head.  Make sure to leave approx. 6 inches on either side.  Just remember to poke some air holes.


----------



## pearljam50000

I always read that the STAX SR-009 is better than HD800 , i wonder in what way are they better, and how much in % are they better?


----------



## Audio Jester

stapsy said:


> I have had good success placing a medium size cardboard box over my head.  Make sure to leave approx. 6 inches on either side.  Just remember to poke some air holes.


 can we get a photo of this mod?


----------



## 62ohm

pearljam50000 said:


> I always read that the STAX SR-009 is better than HD800 , i wonder in what way are they better, and how much in % are they better?


 
  
 At this level, I believe no phones is a complete improvement over another. Unlike what the T1 is to the DT880, The SR-009 may be a better overall cans, but there might still be some areas where the HD800 have the upper hand (Soundstage and *maybe*, detail retrieval?)


----------



## elvergun

62ohm said:


> At this level, I believe no phones is a complete improvement over another. Unlike what the T1 is to the DT880, The SR-009 may be a better overall cans, but there might still be some areas where the HD800 have the upper hand (Soundstage and *maybe*, detail retrieval?)


 
  
 Have you heard the SR-009?


----------



## purrin

HD800 is better in detail retrieval and depth presentation by far, IMHO, FWIW, m2c, GFY, etc. Also hits with more impact in the lower bass (depending upon amp). HD800 allows one to use SET amps if one likes that sound (although Frank Cooter did once make a great SET electrostatic amp, I doubt such will ever enter commercial production.) SR009 tonal response, transient response, speed, and cleanness (low distortion) is better than HD800. Pick your poison.


----------



## 62ohm

elvergun said:


> Have you heard the SR-009?


 
  
 Nope, just forwarding the impressions of some who have heard both.


----------



## DairyProduce

purrin said:


> HD800 is better in detail retrieval and depth presentation by far, IMHO, FWIW, m2c, GFY, etc. Also hits with more impact in the lower bass (depending upon amp). HD800 allows one to use SET amps if one likes that sound (although Frank Cooter did once make a great SET electrostatic amp, I doubt such will ever enter commercial production.) SR009 tonal response, transient response, speed, and cleanness (low distortion) is better than HD800. Pick your poison.


 
 What are some good SET amps for the HD800?


----------



## Rayzilla

magiccabbage said:


> used to do that myself. Then i sold the 650's




What do you use as a portable now?


----------



## longbowbbs

dairyproduce said:


> purrin said:
> 
> 
> > HD800 is better in detail retrieval and depth presentation by far, IMHO, FWIW, m2c, GFY, etc. Also hits with more impact in the lower bass (depending upon amp). HD800 allows one to use SET amps if one likes that sound (although Frank Cooter did once make a great SET electrostatic amp, I doubt such will ever enter commercial production.) SR009 tonal response, transient response, speed, and cleanness (low distortion) is better than HD800. Pick your poison.
> ...


 
 Decware CSP3+ is great....You can pick up a CSP2+ for under $1000 if you keep an eye out.


----------



## Currawong

62ohm said:


> pearljam50000 said:
> 
> 
> > I always read that the STAX SR-009 is better than HD800 , i wonder in what way are they better, and how much in % are they better?
> ...


 
  
 The main upper hand they have is that they don't need a $5000 amp to sound fantastic IMO.


----------



## magiccabbage

rayzilla said:


> What do you use as a portable now?


 
 HD595 - not the greatest because its not closed but either was the 650. I want to get the LCDXC and i plan on selling my T1 but i don't know yet whether i will get the LCDXC or upgrade my DAC. I probably need the DAC more than the headphone. When this DNA Stratus comes in my lowly ole RDAC wont cut the mustard.  


purrin said:


> HD800 is better in detail retrieval and depth presentation by far, IMHO, FWIW, m2c, GFY, etc. Also hits with more impact in the lower bass (depending upon amp). HD800 allows one to use SET amps if one likes that sound (although Frank Cooter did once make a great SET electrostatic amp, I doubt such will ever enter commercial production.) SR009 tonal response, transient response, speed, and cleanness (low distortion) is better than HD800. Pick your poison.


 
 Here is a question i asked in the DNA thread ¬

_ _


> _Just as a matter of interest -has anyone heard the BHSE/009 and DNA/HD800 side by side_
> _for a lengthy period of time and come out preferring the DNA/HD800?_


 
  
  
 maybe you could say considering you heard both. I think you spend a bit of time with the Stratus yourself? 
  
  
 Thanks 
  
  Paddy


----------



## TwoEars

I've never heard the SR-009 myself but reading through the pages here on head-fi it seems there are some who have gone from HD800 to SR-009, and others who have gone from SR-009 to HD800. Then there are others who prefers orthos to both of those.
  
 I think one of the most important thing to realize during your head-fi journey is that headphones are just like cars. There really is no "best car", there are cars that are better than others, and there are cars that do some things better than others, but there really is no "best" overall car. Although there are some cars who are utter dogs though.
  
 Then there are people who are perfectly happy to have an average middle prized car and it gets them from A to B and makes them happy. Then there are others who keep changing from Ferrari to Maserati to Aston Martin each year and who never are happy, or maybe they are just curious and like to change things up a bit?
  
 Personally I know I prefer my HD800 to the LCD-2/3, and that's not because I think they are worse, they're just different. I would love to try the SR-009 to see what all the fuzz is about though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Right now I'm keeping my eyes on the HE-560. If it's anything like the HE-500 but with lower weight, better comfort etc I think it could be a potential giant slayer.


----------



## roguegeek

frankrondaniel said:


> How difficult was it to put together?  I received on as a gift this past Christmas but haven't had a chance to build it yet.  I'm very curious to hear how it pairs with the 800's.


 
 It's definitely worth the price of admission. I tool around all the time on cars, but hadn't picked up a soldering iron in a decade and was able to get the whole thing done in about two days with minimal difficulty. Absolutely more fun than it was frustrating and it sounds pretty good. It's an easy recommendation for me.


----------



## skeptic

I had picked up an iron only once (to make an extension cable) before attempting my crack and had no issues.  Just make sure you have some decent leaded rosin core solder and then take a few minutes to watch a youtube video or two on basic soldering.  You will be good to go.  Point to point is really easy.  Before attempting the speedball, watch another video on through hole soldering.
  
 If you like OTL amps, the crack really is damn good with hd800's, notwithstanding its modest price (assuming you find a tube complement that fits your preferences).  There's a reason innerfidelity, headphonia, and guttenberg _all_ recommend it as a great budget pairing with hd800's and that Tyll added it to his wall of fame.  The crack isn't the last word in detail but is still quite a bit more detailed, dynamic and punchy than many other OTL's (i.e. Woos).  As has been noted a time or two in the past, since Woo and most other OTL's don't load their tubes with constant current, the crack with speedball is a more sophisticated circuit.  Having the space in the enclosure to throw in a pair of fat film output caps with low ESR and dissipation factor is the icing on the cake.  (Fancy/slim aluminum cases have their appeal, but most aren't designed to accommodate caps of this size, and the output caps in OTL's are the final component in the signal path and definitely impact the sound.)
  
 Crack isn't quite in the same league with the big boys (e.g. mainline, zana, etc.), but to my ears, it betters many higher price commercial options that are frequently recommended for high impedance phones.


----------



## TwoEars

skeptic said:


> I had picked up an iron only once (to make an extension cable) before attempting my crack and had no issues.  Just make sure you have some decent leaded rosin core solder and then take a few minutes to watch a youtube video or two on basic soldering.  You will be good to go.  Point to point is really easy.  Before attempting the speedball, watch another video on through hole soldering.
> 
> If you like OTL amps, the crack really is damn good with hd800's, notwithstanding its modest price (assuming you find a tube complement that fits your preferences).  There's a reason innerfidelity, headphonia, and guttenberg _all_ recommend it as a great budget pairing with hd800's and that Tyll added it to his wall of fame.  The crack isn't the last word in detail but is still quite a bit more detailed, dynamic and punchy than many other OTL's (i.e. Woos).  As has been noted a time or two in the past, since Woo and most other OTL's don't load their tubes with constant current, the crack with speedball is a more sophisticated circuit.  Having the space in the enclosure to throw in a pair of fat film output caps with low ESR and dissipation factor is the icing on the cake.  (Fancy/slim aluminum cases have their appeal, but most aren't designed to accommodate caps of this size, and the output caps in OTL's are the final component in the signal path and definitely impact the sound.)
> 
> Crack isn't quite in the same league with the big boys (e.g. mainline, zana, etc.), but to my ears, it betters many higher price commercial options that are frequently recommended for high impedance phones.


 
  
 What's the mainline like compared to your modded crack? Or the zana if you've heard it?
  
 Also - what's the main difference in sound character between OTL and SET really? I really haven't heard enough tube amps to know.


----------



## frankrondaniel

roguegeek said:


> It's definitely worth the price of admission. I tool around all the time on cars, but hadn't picked up a soldering iron in a decade and was able to get the whole thing done in about two days with minimal difficulty. Absolutely more fun than it was frustrating and it sounds pretty good. It's an easy recommendation for me.


 
  
 Thanks for the feedback - hopefully work will calm down enough in the near term for me to sit down and get that thing put together!


----------



## jackskelly

pearljam50000 said:


> I always read that the STAX SR-009 is better than HD800 , i wonder in what way are they better, and how much in % are they better?


 
  
 I have both and I would say that the SR-009 is the better sounding headphone, but not by a whole lot. I would say an HD-800 is 90% of an SR-009. And given the cost, the HD-800 is much better value, especially since you need an electrostatic amp for the SR-009. The HD800 has better imaging, a larger soundstage and is more comfortable. I think that anyone here who really likes the HD-800 will really like the SR-009 as well, they both sound great on pretty much all genres and have a similar tonal balance.


----------



## magiccabbage

jackskelly said:


> I have both and I would say that the SR-009 is the better sounding headphone, but not by a whole lot. I would say an HD-800 is 90% of an SR-009. And given the cost, the HD-800 is much better value, especially since you need an electrostatic amp for the SR-009. The HD800 has better imaging, a larger soundstage and is more comfortable. I think that anyone here who really likes the HD-800 will really like the SR-009 as well, they both sound great on pretty much all genres and have a similar tonal balance.


 
 Do you use the cavalli to run the HD800's?


----------



## Maxvla

jackskelly said:


> I have both and I would say that the SR-009 is the better sounding headphone, but not by a whole lot. I would say an HD-800 is 90% of an SR-009. And given the cost, the HD-800 is much better value, especially since you need an electrostatic amp for the SR-009. The HD800 has better imaging, a larger soundstage and is more comfortable. I think that anyone here who really likes the HD-800 will really like the SR-009 as well, they both sound great on pretty much all genres and have a similar tonal balance.



I really like HD800s, and think SR-009s are great headphones, but my priorities are such that they align with the 009s' faults, so they aren't headphones I am personally fond of, but I can see why some would be.


----------



## magiccabbage

maxvla said:


> I really like HD800s, and think SR-009s are great headphones, but my priorities are such that they align with the 009s' faults, so they aren't headphones I am personally fond of, but I can see why some would be.


 
 I'm looking forward to finishing off my HD800 rig - when i get the Stratus and a good DAC maybe the new Schiit or the AGDM7 i will be a very happy person indeed. 
  
 A fellow headfier who lives near me just acquired the Sennheiser Orpheus and he uses a Dubiel Accoustics Eurydice electrostatic amp to power them. I might bring my DNA/HD800 down when i get it and do some comparisons. Another headfier has 009/BHSE and has invited me to his house for a listening session in the summer. 
  
 It will be interesting to hear these 3 rigs, i just hope i don't start to prefer any of them to my own 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - that is usually what happens with me and guitar hunting, so it is likely to occur here, you know, you always want what you don't have.


----------



## 62ohm

maxvla said:


> I really like HD800s, and think SR-009s are great headphones, but my priorities are such that they align with the 009s' faults, so they aren't headphones I am personally fond of, but I can see why some would be.


 
  
 May I ask what are those priorities of yours that align with the 009's faults? I'm guessing one of them is comfort?


----------



## magiccabbage

62ohm said:


> May I ask what are those priorities of yours that align with the 009's faults? I'm guessing one of them is comfort?


 
 +1


----------



## jackskelly

magiccabbage said:


> Do you use the cavalli to run the HD800's?


 
  
 No, it's solely an electrostatic amp. I use my NuForce DAC-100 to power my HD-800, and it's actually a great sounding combination in my opinion (highly recommended by Jude and other head-fi'ers). The DAC-100 is around $1000 and the Liquid Lightning around $5000, so I guess it's not really a fair comparison. I could definitely get a TOTL dynamic amplifier and the HD-800 would sound better than it does now, and it would probably get closer in overall sound quality to the SR-009, but I can't imagine the SR-009 still not sounding better. At that point we're almost splitting hairs I suppose (but that's one thing about Summit-Fi, right?). I'm just happy I'm fortunate enough to own and listen to both headphones.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jackskelly said:


> I have both and I would say that the SR-009 is the better sounding headphone, but not by a whole lot. I would say an HD-800 is 90% of an SR-009. And given the cost, the HD-800 is much better value, especially since you need an electrostatic amp for the SR-009. The HD800 has better imaging, a larger soundstage and is more comfortable. I think that anyone here who really likes the HD-800 will really like the SR-009 as well, they both sound great on pretty much all genres and have a similar tonal balance.


 
 Have you used another amp beyond the LLMk1? It certainly wasn't the final word with the SR-007/9s in amp'ing IMO. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It was previously mentioned that the HD800s have more detail...I can't agree with this as I'm still hearing things on my favourite recordings that the HD800/GS-X MK2 have seemed to have missed. In terms of soundstaging, the HD800s are still tops in my books. Both are outstanding examples of engineering at its finest.


----------



## magiccabbage

macedonianhero said:


> Have you used another amp beyond the LLMk1? It certainly wasn't the final word with the SR-007/9s in amp'ing IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I would love to hear what you think of the DNA Stratus with HD800. You haven't heard it tough have you?


----------



## MacedonianHero

magiccabbage said:


> I would love to hear what you think of the DNA Stratus with HD800. You haven't heard it tough have you?


 
 Not the Stratus...not yet anyway.


----------



## Audio Jester

macedonianhero said:


> Not the Stratus...not yet anyway.


 Do i detect a hint of tube lust there MH? I thought you had gone "SS only" for non-electrostats!


----------



## MacedonianHero

audio jester said:


> Do i detect a hint of tube lust there MH? I thought you had gone "SS only" for non-electrostats!


 
 Not really, just curious to hear it. The GS-X Mk2 is truly end-game territory. FWIW, I've also gone tube-free for stats too.


----------



## 62ohm

macedonianhero said:


> Not really, just curious to hear it. The GS-X Mk2 is truly end-game territory. FWIW, I've also gone tube-free for stats too.


 
  
 May I ask if you have specific reasons for it? Is it distortion?


----------



## MacedonianHero

62ohm said:


> May I ask if you have specific reasons for it? Is it distortion?


 
 Main reason...simplicity of life. Not having to constantly scour for expensive tubes that can go microphonic on you or outright die (I've had this happen way too many times over the years and I DON'T want to know how much $ I've spent chasing that rabbit). And finally, not having to wait for 30 minutes for the amp to fully warm up is also very convenient.
  
 Plus after a year + with the GS-X Mk2, the clarity and detail has been very satisfying that I haven't even considered any changes/additions.


----------



## Maxvla

62ohm said:


> May I ask what are those priorities of yours that align with the 009's faults? I'm guessing one of them is comfort?







magiccabbage said:


> +1



Comfort? Eh.. not really, but I suppose that is one factor in which the HD800 has a small advantage. My problem is with the soundstage, primarily. Some people, like Purrin, concede soundstage to the land of speakers, and it doesn't count for much in their evaluation of headphones. I'm on the other side, where I think headphones can at least compete with, or even surpass (with CIEMs) speakers in perceived soundstage. Headphones like SR-009s (and virtually all other stat/planar magnetic, and most dynamics) give me the classic headphone hall effect where sound comes from left and right, perhaps slightly in front (around 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock), but many lack a seamless transition from 10 to 2, some not even having a focused center (for vocals, mostly). 

For full size headphones the only one that is anywhere near acceptable is the HD800 in this regard. It has a perfectly focused center and is decently seamless from 10 to 2, though not perfect. This is mostly due to the angled drivers, I would guess. I should think any properly set up speaker rig would out-do HD800s in soundstage, but not significantly. HD800s don't require precision placement in the room, or room treatments, and while expensive in the realm of headphones, are relatively cheap compared to a speaker rig capable of what I'm talking about. I've heard some speaker rigs with very natural soundstage. It is a nice experience, but it can be surpassed, especially with certain genres. Electronic music with CIEMs at the top of the soundstage food chain is truly magical. Speakers can't do this holographic imaging with this music. I will say speakers probably have the edge when it comes to music recorded acoustically, rather than virtually (electronic music), though CIEMs are no slouch in that regard either.

So getting back to the SR-009, this hall effect (like I'm literally standing in a hallway with the soundwaves almost exclusively bouncing from the nearby wall to my ears, very little making it direct from source to ears), ruins my experience with a phenomenal piece of engineering. In addition to soundstage, I find it is too polite, lacking excitement, and the bass is slightly lacking in foundation. A softer, smoother bass, that is well layered and detailed, but not ultimately convincing. It is certainly one of the best headphones out there, but as I said, it's main flaw is my top priority. IMO, the Abyss is it's evil twin. It gets the bass foundation and aggression completely right, but misses the boat on detail and treble extension/quantity. Both, however fail the soundstage criteria.


----------



## pearljam50000

So you're saying that the HD800 are better than-SR-009?


----------



## Mambosenior

pearljam50000 said:


> So you're saying that the HD800 are better than-SR-009?




I guess that would be as impossible to answer as deciding between Magneplanar 20.7s and B&W 801Ds. All comes down to one's preferences. (No?)


----------



## jackskelly

macedonianhero said:


> Have you used another amp beyond the LLMk1? It certainly wasn't the final word with the SR-007/9s in amp'ing IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not yet, unfortunately. You can mean they can even sound better than they already do?!


----------



## Zoom25

Going to buy a HD800 sometime in the future, just need to clarify some things:
  
*Stock Cable* - Thoughts? Good enough permanently, good enough until upgrade or should be replaced immediately? I'll give the stock cable a chance for sure when I get it, but would also like to know in advance if I need to save extra for a cable.
  
*Revisions* - I've read here and there about a 6 kHz decrease and more bass boost in comparison to the old models. Roughly when did that happen, in case I find a used one going in the lower serial number. How has the sound changed over the 20,000+ headphones?
  
*Warranty* - I've had to repair my Audeze and Hifiman stuff quite a few times, luckily I was under warranty. How are the HD800 generally considered with these types of issue. I am guessing this should a non issue with these, but would still like to get my peace of mind from the members here.


----------



## Maxvla

pearljam50000 said:


> So you're saying that the HD800 are better than-SR-009?




For me, yes.



zoom25 said:


> Going to buy a HD800 sometime in the future, just need to clarify some things:
> 
> *Stock Cable* - Thoughts? Good enough permanently, good enough until upgrade or should be replaced immediately? I'll give the stock cable a chance for sure when I get it, but would also like to know in advance if I need to save extra for a cable.
> 
> ...



Stock cable works well, but it's physical characteristics are rather annoying. If I planned to use it full time in unbalanced configuration I would get another cable.

There are no revisions and no sound changes to the HD800. Any variance is simply testing or manufacturing tolerance.

I've yet to see someone mention they needed a warranty repair on an HD800. They are extremely reliable.


----------



## Zoom25

maxvla said:


> For me, yes.
> Stock cable works well, but it's physical characteristics are rather annoying. If I planned to use it full time in unbalanced configuration I would get another cable.
> 
> There are no revisions and no sound changes to the HD800. Any variance is simply testing or manufacturing tolerance.
> ...


 
 The most important thing. Check.
  
 What physical aspect of the cable is bothersome to you? Also, yes, I'll be using the HD800 in single ended mode. Is it a sound issue or a bad cable design like the stock Hifiman cable kind of problem?


----------



## Maxvla

The stock cable is about 10 feet long. My amp is generally about 2-3 feet away. Along with being annoying to manage that length, you are guaranteed to have the cable fall all the way to the floor before going back up, meaning you'll have the weight of at least a few extra feet tugging on your head. The cable's composition is a bit heavy as well. My balanced cable is much lighter if you take the same length of each. My balanced cable is a much more manageable 6 feet.

The braid of the cable is easily felt through the sleeving. It's sort of lumpy and doesn't look very nice either.

The plug is somewhat long and unwieldy. Tight spaces can make it hard to use, but even in open area, the extra length can cause it to stick out over the edge of tables and be a snag problem, or just look ugly.


----------



## Zoom25

maxvla said:


> The stock cable is about 10 feet long. My amp is generally about 2-3 feet away. Along with being annoying to manage that length, you are guaranteed to have the cable fall all the way to the floor before going back up, meaning you'll have the weight of at least a few extra feet tugging on your head. The cable's composition is a bit heavy as well. My balanced cable is much lighter if you take the same length of each. My balanced cable is a much more manageable 6 feet.
> 
> The braid of the cable is easily felt through the sleeving. It's sort of lumpy and doesn't look very nice either.
> 
> The plug is somewhat long and unwieldy. Tight spaces can make it hard to use, but even in open area, the extra length can cause it to stick out over the edge of tables and be a snag problem, or just look ugly.


 
 Alright, gotcha. Yeah, had the same problem with the stock Audeze cable for desktop use. The same reason I got upgraded cables for them as well. Thanks for pointing that out. If I like them enough after a certain period, I'll definitely pick one up as well?
  
 Besides the physical aspect, how is the stock cable sound wise?


----------



## Maxvla

I don't have 2 cables of the same termination. Cables are the last thing I'll bother with, regarding sound, once my system is complete.


----------



## PleasantSounds

zoom25 said:


> Besides the physical aspect, how is the stock cable sound wise?


 
  
 To me it sounds better than the cost of the upgrade.


----------



## Zoom25

I'll probably stick with the stock cable. My DAC/AMP combo isn't changing for sure. Perhaps a smaller 6 footer cable later. Warranty and reliability seems decent as well. The only thing I was actually worried about was revision changes. I hated dealing with that previously. Would have sucked to get something sounding different than what I auditioned. Seems like it shouldn't be an issue either.


----------



## purrin

dairyproduce said:


> What are some good SET amps for the HD800?


 
  
 I prefer DHTs. That leaves Donald North Stratus, Eddie Current 2A3 / BA / 4-45, Apex Pinnacle, Manley Neoclassic 300B, Woo WA5.


----------



## Sorrodje

maxvla said:


> Both, however fail the soundstage criteria.


 
  
 Really ? Didn't heard the 009 but the Abyss IMHO offers spectacular soundstage & image.  Imaging was especially good from what I remember.


----------



## TwoEars

zoom25 said:


> Going to buy a HD800 sometime in the future, just need to clarify some things:
> 
> *Stock Cable* - Thoughts? Good enough permanently, good enough until upgrade or should be replaced immediately? I'll give the stock cable a chance for sure when I get it, but would also like to know in advance if I need to save extra for a cable.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good enough if you aren't annoyed by the 6 kHz band. If you feel that the 6 kHz band is slightly etchy it's worth replacing with a pure copper cable before you start amp/dac rolling.
  
 There are differences between headphones, but not major ones. And as far as I know the differences are not based on serial number, just a bit random.
  
 They really are very reliable, and senn is great with warranty anyway.


----------



## roguegeek

Installed the Speedball on the Crack tonight and wow. This is an ass load of amp. I wasn't entirely impressed in its stock form because everything felt a little loose and wild, but that Speedball really tightened things up quite a bit. Big thumbs up for this one.


----------



## David1961

magiccabbage said:


> A fellow headfier who lives near me just acquired the Sennheiser Orpheus and he uses a Dubiel Accoustics Eurydice electrostatic amp to power them. I might bring my DNA/HD800 down when i get it and do some comparisons. Another headfier has 009/BHSE and has invited me to his house for a listening session in the summer.




Hi Paddy,

I've just come across this post of yours and I'm assuming I'm the head-fier you're referring to regarding the 009 / BHSE, if so then when you visit my place this Summer, and with you having the HD-800's, it might be a good idea to bring them with you to try with my GS-Xmk2.
Bringing your HD-800's, and the way my BHSE and GS-X are connected to my source, would allow you to listen to the 009 / BHSE and HD-800 / GS-Xmk2 in seconds of each other, that can be done by just switching from XLR to RCA via my source.

Dave.


----------



## magiccabbage

david1961 said:


> Hi Paddy,
> 
> I've just come across this post of yours and I'm assuming I'm the head-fier you're referring to regarding the 009 / BHSE, if so then when you visit my place this Summer, and with you having the HD-800's, it might be a good idea to bring them with you to try with my GS-Xmk2.
> Bringing your HD-800's, and the way my BHSE and GS-X are connected to my source, would allow you to listen to the 009 / BHSE and HD-800 / GS-Xmk2 in seconds of each other, that can be done by just switching from XLR to RCA via my source.
> ...


 
 I am really looking forward to that. Also you have LCDXC, I'm thinking of selling my T1's and putting money towards getting those. 
 It will be a good visit. I'm also looking forward to trying your Yorkshire ales. I'm liking ale these days.


----------



## drez

twoears said:


> Good enough if you aren't annoyed by the 6 kHz band. If you feel that the 6 kHz band is slightly etchy it's worth replacing with a pure copper cable before you start amp/dac rolling.
> 
> There are differences between headphones, but not major ones. And as far as I know the differences are not based on serial number, just a bit random.
> 
> They really are very reliable, and senn is great with warranty anyway.


 
  
 The 6k peak is caused by the headphone not the cable, if you want to fix the peak I would modify the headphone rather than changing the cable, but who knows maybe a stock HD800 with a different cable is a better compromise for some people.  IMO you would may also want to look for certain pure copper cables, as the cable I am using, although pure copper, did nothing for the 6k peak or etchiness, which suits me fine as I want a transparent cable, if there is such a thing etc. etc.


----------



## TwoEars

drez said:


> The 6k peak is caused by the headphone not the cable, if you want to fix the peak I would modify the headphone rather than changing the cable, but who knows maybe a stock HD800 with a different cable is a better compromise for some people.  IMO you would may also want to look for certain pure copper cables, as the cable I am using, although pure copper, did nothing for the 6k peak or etchiness, which suits me fine as I want a transparent cable, if there is such a thing etc. etc.


 
  
 My experience is also that the 6k Hz is still is there even with a pure copper cable.
  
 If you want to reduce the 6 kHz peak this can be done with EQ'ing, the anax mod, or picking a dark dac/amp if you so desire. Or maybe a combination of those.
  
 But my experience is that while a pure copper cable doesn't exactly reduce the 6 kHz peak it makes it a lot less harsh and fatiguing, the presentation feels more relaxed and less hard. Perhaps the speed is a tad of an inch slower, but for me that's a tradeoff I'm more than willing to make. It makes it more listenable in the long run and it's already stupid fast in stock form.
  
 That's my experience from playing with cables.


----------



## David1961

magiccabbage said:


> I am really looking forward to that. Also you have LCDXC, I'm thinking of selling my T1's and putting money towards getting those.
> It will be a good visit. I'm also looking forward to trying your Yorkshire ales. I'm liking ale these days.




Since using the PH tubes with my BHSE, I only listen to my LCD-XC / GS-Xmk2 while waiting for the BHSE to warm up, however, I think the LCD-XC / GS-Xmk 2 combo is still very good so you might prefer that combo to the 009 / BHSE.

I don't drink that much beer nowadays, and I haven't had ( what I consider ) a very good pint of Yorkshire Ale for along time. The beer I mostly drink is John Smiths and it was John Smiths hand pull that was the best pint I've had, which was sometime ago. It was at a pub near Tadcaster but I can't remember the name of the pub.
Tadcaster is about 18 miles from Castleford.


----------



## preproman

macedonianhero said:


> Have you used another amp beyond the LLMk1? It certainly wasn't the final word with the SR-007/9s in amp'ing IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I fully agree here Peter.  
  
 The same with the HE-6 and a good amp.  No detail is lost on either.  The Soundstage of the HD800s are to die for "with Classical music"  IMO it's to much of a good thing with other types of music that does not require a huge sound stage.  That's where the 009's and the HE-6 excels.  Imaging on the HD800s can bee a little funny at times, yes it's really good for the most part, but in intimate Jazz settings with female vocals the singer can seem a little to distant and not as cozy and right there in front of you like the 009 and the HE-6..


----------



## preproman

zoom25 said:


> The most important thing. Check.


 
  
 Might want to look into purchasing them from colorware to preserve the life of the paint.  That's if your willing to pay the full MSRP.


----------



## Dionysus

I received my HDVD800 yesterday, had a listen through a few tracks on my hd800 on the single ended stock cable, waiting on my balanced cable to arrive should be here today.
 I am letting it burn in through tomorrow when I will have the evening to really sit and listen and form a better impression.
 But from the small sample last night, I am very happy to say I like what I am hearing and from all accounts the balanced should sound even better so I am pretty thrilled.


----------



## rgs9200m

Get a Moon Black Dragon cable for the sonics (it's just what the HD800 needs, like it was made for it).


----------



## Canadian411

maxvla said:


> For me, yes.



 


Hope this is true, then I don't have to buy SR009.


----------



## Trey36

At the moment I'm running my Hifiman 901 as my DAC and my amplifier is a Corda Classic. I love the set up but I've seen people posting about using tube amps. Does a tube amp make that much difference when it comes to the sound signature? 
  
 I recently read the paper The State of the Flagship and even though I think it's a personal preference when it comes to open or closed headphones (I prefer closed), I agree with the definition of what the paper said a flagship headphones should provide. I enjoy the sound of my HD800, but I prefer my ED8 since the bass is stronger because it's a closed headphone. Unfortunately Ultrasone's headphones are fashion accessories first so IMHO the price paid isn't worth the sound coming out of the dynamic drivers. The mids on the ED8 don't come close to touching the HD800, in saying that does your amplifier play that much of a difference in the quality of sound coming out of your headphones if your amplifier is pushing Class A (extremely clean power) Power?  
  
 If it does why not just by a headphones between $500 to $1000 and increase the cost of the amplifier that is being purchased? Before I purchased the HD800 I looked at the Audeze LCD-3, after looking at the weight and talking to a couple of owners about comfort I decided on the HD800 and I have no regrets. This headphones has to be the most comfortable headphones I've ever worn, I'm getting to the point where if what I buy its not made in Germany or a Scandinavian Country I'm not going waist my money. (Hifiman will be the only exception because of the quality of the internal components, my 901 looks like a plastic toy but the sound coming out of it is makes me smile) Hopefully I can get some good recommendations. 
  
 The tube amp I've had my eye on is the Icon Audio HP8 MKII, I know this is made in the UK so I have to ask has anyone paired this with the HD800?


----------



## Canadian411

trey36 said:


> At the moment I'm running my Hifiman 901 as my DAC and my amplifier is a Corda Classic. I love the set up but I've seen people posting about using tube amps. Does a tube amp make that much difference when it comes to the sound signature?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


You made the right choice, I liked my Audeze but weight and discomfort just doesn't do it, and I am not a fan of dark sounding.


----------



## Zoom25

preproman said:


> Might want to look into purchasing them from colorware to* preserve the life of the paint*.  That's if your willing to pay the full MSRP.


 
  
 I know about Colorware but doing that automatically kills their warranty with Sennheiser. Coloware only offer a year warranty on those. For two years it's $299 extra.
  
 Care to explain the paint preservation?


----------



## TwoEars

trey36 said:


> At the moment I'm running my Hifiman 901 as my DAC and my amplifier is a Corda Classic. I love the set up but I've seen people posting about using tube amps. Does a tube amp make that much difference when it comes to the sound signature?
> 
> I recently read the paper The State of the Flagship and even though I think it's a personal preference when it comes to open or closed headphones (I prefer closed), I agree with the definition of what the paper said a flagship headphones should provide. I enjoy the sound of my HD800, but I prefer my ED8 since the bass is stronger because it's a closed headphone. Unfortunately Ultrasone's headphones are fashion accessories first so IMHO the price paid isn't worth the sound coming out of the dynamic drivers. The mids on the ED8 don't come close to touching the HD800, in saying that does your amplifier play that much of a difference in the quality of sound coming out of your headphones if your amplifier is pushing Class A (extremely clean power) Power?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have not personally heard the HP8 but I highly, highly trust this reviewer and I know he thinks it's an excellent match with the HD800: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/icon-audio-hp8-mk2-tube-headphone-amplifier.


----------



## Maxvla

zoom25 said:


> I know about Colorware but doing that automatically kills their warranty with Sennheiser. Coloware only offer a year warranty on those. For two years it's $299 extra.
> 
> Care to explain the paint preservation?



Not true. Senn honors their 2 year warranty on Colorware'd HD800s. Confirmed by Senn staff a couple years ago. I would link but I'm on my phone atm.

Also, Colorware's warranty is only on the paint, not the unit itself, IIRC.

Colorware paint seems to be more durable. The Senn paint can flake off according to some users. My Colorware HD800s have no paint issues after having owned them for about 2 years now.


----------



## Trey36

Thanks for the read, I will probably end up picking up that tube amp and calling it for a decade when it comes to headphones. Hopefully one day a closed headphone will be produced that will have this type of clarity and openness. From a fundamental design standpoint it may never happen, but one can only hope. 
  
 Thanks again.


----------



## Zoom25

maxvla said:


> Not true. Senn honors their 2 year warranty on Colorware'd HD800s. Confirmed by Senn staff a couple years ago. I would link but I'm on my phone atm.
> 
> Also, Colorware's warranty is only on the paint, not the unit itself, IIRC.
> 
> Colorware paint seems to be more durable. The Senn paint can flake off according to some users. My Colorware HD800s have no paint issues after having owned them for about 2 years now.


 
 Hmmm I swear I remember reading back in the day that it void the warranty. I'll have to look into it.
  
 Maybe buy a used one and then send it for colorware and save some cash?


----------



## Maxvla

http://www.head-fi.org/t/577731/custom-colored-hd-800/135#post_8606496


----------



## TwoEars

trey36 said:


> Thanks for the read, I will probably end up picking up that tube amp and calling it for a decade when it comes to headphones. Hopefully one day a closed headphone will be produced that will have this type of clarity and openness. From a fundamental design standpoint it may never happen, but one can only hope.
> 
> Thanks again.


 
  
 No problem, remember to order the "full music" tubes, they are available from icon when you order or from the internet. It's supposed to be quite an upgrade.
  


zoom25 said:


> Hmmm I swear I remember reading back in the day that it void the warranty. I'll have to look into it.
> 
> Maybe buy a used one and then send it for colorware and save some cash?


 
  
 I think you're worrying waaaaaaay too much about the warranty. HD800's do not break, you can drop them and at most you'll have a paint chip. They are very well engineered and manufactured.


----------



## Eee Pee

Stop quoting walls of text please!

Especially when you don't have to!


----------



## Zoom25

Thanks for the help guys. I just wanted to be sure about the build as this time around I'm looking for a headphone that can last me for several years (Also, my planars breaking down only made me more cautious).
  
 I think I will eventually get mine colorwared. Just have to decide on the colours as well as matte vs. glossy finish.


----------



## jrprana

I maybe wrong, but I think Colorware no longer offers repainting service for HD800. 
You will have to buy the headphones from them.


----------



## Zoom25

I went on colorware's site today and they had the option to send in your own HD800 and they'll colorware it for $299. Supposedly a 2 week process. Am I missing something here?


----------



## jrprana

I stand corrected.


----------



## pearljam50000

Can anyone compare to Grado PS1000?
 Thanks.


----------



## Maxvla

Polar opposite.


----------



## pearljam50000

And what about the LCD3?
  
 Nice profile pic btw.


----------



## koiloco

^ still quite different in sound signature.  Comfort is also opposite.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

pearljam50000 said:


> Can anyone compare to Grado PS1000?
> Thanks.


 


 Grado PS1000 has a very intimate soundstage.  But its mids - vocals in particular sound golden and is given better texture and push than the HD800's.  But that's the only thing I found in the PS1000 to be better than the HD800.  The rest - IMHO I hand to HD800 in terms of technical superiority.


----------



## koiloco

sp3llv3xit said:


> Grado PS1000 has a very intimate soundstage.  But its mids - vocals in particular sound golden and is given better texture and push than the HD800's.  But that's the only thing I found in the PS1000 to be better than the HD800.  The rest - IMHO I hand to HD800 in terms of technical superiority.


 
 wow, i haven't heard the PS1000 yet but there's more textured mid than HD800?  That I got to try.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

koiloco said:


> wow, i haven't heard the PS1000 yet but there's more textured mid than HD800?  That I got to try.


 

  
 Could be placebo but the more intimate (small) soundstage made everything a tad more open to aural scrutiny.


----------



## koiloco

sp3llv3xit said:


> Could be placebo but the more intimate (small) soundstage made everything a tad more open to aural scrutiny.


 
 Ah, that makes sense though.  Thx bud.  I am just a sucker for textured forward mid.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

koiloco said:


> Ah, that makes sense though.  Thx bud.  I am just a sucker for textured forward mid.


 


 Oh in that case, give the old PS1000 (non-chrome cups) a listen.  It is definitely way more forward than the HD800.


----------



## Revogamer

koiloco said:


> Ah, that makes sense though.  Thx bud.  I am just a sucker for textured forward mid.


 
 What about LCD-3's?


----------



## sp3llv3xit

revogamer said:


> What about LCD-3's?


 


 Who can chime in?

 IMHO, planars shouldn't be compared with dynamics.  They're two different species.  How does one compare a dog to a cat?

 If you're a cat person, you get cats.  If you're a dog person, you adopt dogs.

 Planar-magnetic cans sound very different from dynamic headphones.


----------



## Revogamer

sp3llv3xit said:


> Who can chime in?
> 
> IMHO, planars shouldn't be compared with dynamics.  They're two different species.  How does one compare a dog to a cat?
> 
> ...


 
 They are indeed, which is why they complement each other so well..
  
 I own HD800's too but i was just answering the above about a textured mid range is all


----------



## Zoom25

I found the mids on HD800 better than the mids on any other planar I've owned, including HE-500, LCD-2 and LCD-3.


----------



## preproman

sp3llv3xit said:


> Who can chime in?
> 
> IMHO, planars shouldn't be compared with dynamics.  They're two different species.  How does one compare a dog to a cat?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Planar magnetics are dynamics and can be compared (both are headphones), it happens all the time.
  
 Heck even dynamics in general can sound very different from each other.


----------



## nigeljames

+ 1
  
 They are all headphones after all.


----------



## LugBug1

Yup, all headphones. Not ear speakers  But there's Stax of them on here too.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

preproman said:


> Planar magnetics are dynamics and can be compared (both are headphones), it happens all the time.
> 
> Heck even dynamics in general can sound very different from each other.


 

 Maybe I shouldn't have generalized the dismissal of the comparison between the two. But no matter what one uses to drive the HD800, it can never be made to sound thick enough to compare with planars.  Given the way the drivers are designed and built, there's just too much difference to make the comparison compete for purchase decision.  I buy both.  They're not like a comparison or competition between the T1 and HD800.  
  
 That's just my personal take on the matter.  Planars sound fun. HD800 is reference.  Again, just my own interpretation.  Peace guys.


----------



## magiccabbage

sp3llv3xit said:


> Maybe I shouldn't have generalized the dismissal of the comparison between the two. But no matter what one uses to drive the HD800, it can never be made to sound thick enough to compare with planars.  Given the way the drivers are designed and built, there's just too much difference to make the comparison compete for purchase decision.  I buy both.  They're not like a comparison or competition between the T1 and HD800.
> 
> That's just my personal take on the matter.  Planars sound fun. HD800 is reference.  Again, just my own interpretation.  Peace guys.


 
 I wouldn't be too quick to jump to that conclusion either. There are many amps yet to be built that could deliver on that - thick and powerful. From what i hear of peoples impressions of the GlennOTL/HD800 combo it might be close to that sound signature with the right tube combo.


----------



## Trey36

I posted a few days ago about wanting a tube amp to potentially improve my HD800 sound. It took some time for my ears to adjust because I've always preferred closed headphones, but wow. Sennheiser and it's open headphones just got a new groupie. If I want something closed so I'm not bothering others I will stick to my Shure IEM's. 


 


I'm already salivating at the fact that this headphone has been out for five years so I know Sennheiser should be releasing another flagship in a couple of years. If someone has any info on anything Sennheiser has in the works to replace the HD800 let me know so I can follow every detail or rumor like an Iphone groupie does for the Iphone.


----------



## Maxvla

Senn's last flagship design lasted about 15 years and HD800 sales continue to outpace any other flagship, so I doubt we will see a new dynamic any time soon. An ortho is very unlikely, a modern electrostat based on HD800 frame (as done with HE90 and HD580) would be amazing.


----------



## magiccabbage

maxvla said:


> Senn's last flagship design lasted about 15 years and HD800 sales continue to outpace any other flagship, so I doubt we will see a new dynamic any time soon. An ortho is very unlikely, a modern electrostat based on HD800 frame (as done with HE90 and HD580) would be amazing.


 
 It would but then i would have to get one and an electro stat amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I hope that doesn't happen for a long time


----------



## Trey36

Thank you, another 10 years it is.


----------



## skeptic

twoears said:


> What's the mainline like compared to your modded crack? Or the zana if you've heard it?
> 
> Also - what's the main difference in sound character between OTL and SET really? I really haven't heard enough tube amps to know.


 
  
 Hey TwoEars - sorry for the much delayed reply!  First, just to briefly clarify "OTL" refers to a tube amp without output transformers (or - output transformer-less).  SET refers to "single ended triode" tube amps, which means it is using a triode tube type and is not a differential or push-pull amplifier.  Most of the commonly discussed OTL headphone amps are SET designs - such as the crack, woo 3, woo 2, dark voices, etc.  These amps almost all use a 6as7(g) or 6080 tube, in series with high uf caps, as an alternative to output transformers.  It is a pretty clever design where - in order to lower the output impedance enough to run high impedance headphones - the signal is actually pulled off the cathode of the tube, rather than the annode.  The 6as7(g)/6080/7236/5998 family is really the only option if you want to accomplish this, so that's what all of the above-referenced amps use.  Still, the resulting output impedance is a bit on the high side.  When implemented well, OTL's tend to produce a full and pleasing sound (with high impedance phones - low impedance will sound anemic and flabby), but there is also going to be some bloom to the bass and likely roll off in the sub-bass.
  
 The original zana deux was/is also an OTL, but of a different and costlier design with lower ouput impedance (and I would say objectively better sounding - very fast, detailed and dynamic).  I greatly enjoyed listening to this amp at CanJam, and a family friend had brought an unblemished vinyl copy of HDS701 (see: http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/vta_method_e.html ) along that we played on craig's system.  It was one of the best sounding setups I heard all day.  Of the cheaper OTL's, crack comes the closest to an original zana to my ears, but contrary to what some others have suggested in the crack thread, I do not think even a hotrodded crack truly rivals a zana.  The new zana deux se, by contrast, uses output transformers, and I have not heard that.
  
 The mainline is a highly regulated, c4s loaded, single gain stage, SET amp, with output transformers, and a big step up in all respects from the crack to my ears - notwithstanding that crack is a good sounding amp in its own right with hd800's.  In short, mainline is more refined and detailed, faster, more dynamic, transients much cleaner, and bass far tighter and with greater impact.  Trebles are beautifully extended but _never _strident, which makes it a perfect match for hd800's to my ears - better than a Zana to me (which, like crack, can occasionally manifest some treble sharpness), but reasonable minds can certainly differ once you're in the realm of these sorts of flagship products.  As to the trebles and general sound signature, failed engineer discusses the same thing in his post a dozen or so pages back in reference to the ECP L-2 which is very similar under the hood to the mainline.  To the best of my recollection, there was nothing I heard at CanJam that I liked as well with hd800's as the mainline (including the zana, WA5, and the $7k TTVJ 307A).  I confess I have not heard the zana se, balancing act, or DNA products.  If you'd care to read more of my ramblings about the mainline, I've posted some impressions in post nos. 43 and 48 here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/662240/mainline-new-bottlehead-premium-headphone-amp/30  Loquah has also written an exhaustive comparison of his impressions of the bottlehead mainline, crack and s.e.x. here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline


----------



## icebear

The HD800 will let you hear the source and any differences for that matter very clearly.
  
 I heard these headphones today with various equipment
 e.g. 
 Sennheiser HDVD800 source: "someone's cellphone",
 Eddy Current amp (model ?) source Philips CD Player
 Head amp GSX MkII, source Mac book, DSD DAC (Ayre QB9?)
 Mod wright Oppo 105, mod wright PS, amp ?
 Auralic Taurus source : Sony Z1ES high res player/server
  
 And bottom line, they all sound different. And I hate to admit it, the best HD800 combo during the Head-Fi meet today, in my book was the awkward Sony player with the Auralic amp. For me the sound stage is what sets the HD800 apart and just driving it directly from a exasound e20, I get lots of ambient information in my own set up and that was missing in a lot of the combinations above. The Sony player w/o touch screen seems out of place and is somewhat quirky to operate, once you get used, it might be OK but the button and dial menu is real slow compared to a PC/Mac/I pad based system. And that box is huge (21.6 x 19.5 x 8.5" ) and does NOT have a digital output - it's a Sony 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Take all this with a good pinch of salt, as there were "miles of extension cords" and multi outlets all over the place and all were playing different music - but that is basically the same situation for all discussions about the HD800 and how different they sound - yes they do, in different set ups. Start with the source quality and don't try to get a better sound by patching things up with "warm sounding cables" or tube amps, just my $0.02.
 Enjoy the journey 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## frankrondaniel

icebear said:


> The HD800 will let you hear the source and any differences for that matter very clearly.
> 
> I heard these headphones today with various equipment
> e.g.
> ...


 

 Noticed that you mention that you're running your HD800's out of your Exasound E20.  Lately I've been running mine directly from my Exasound E28.  I've been very happy with that combination.


----------



## grizzlybeast

I have a random question. Would the hd800, crack and speedball work well with hip hop and reggae?


----------



## sp3llv3xit

magiccabbage said:


> I wouldn't be too quick to jump to that conclusion either. There are many amps yet to be built that could deliver on that - thick and powerful. From what i hear of peoples impressions of the GlennOTL/HD800 combo it might be close to that sound signature with the right tube combo.


 
  
  
 Wow. Thanks for the recommendation.  Now there's something to look forward to!  (My wallet curses you though.)


----------



## pdrm360

grizzlybeast said:


> I have a random question. Would the hd800, crack and speedball work well with hip hop and reggae?


 
  
 It depends how you would like to hear them.


----------



## grizzlybeast

pdrm360 said:


> It depends how you would like to hear them.


 
 really?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 like a speaker with good imaging and a cohesive sound.


----------



## skeptic

Hey grizzly. For me, with the anax mod in place and minimally bright tubes, crack + hd800s worked with hiphop (can't comment on reggae). Absent these conditions though, high hats could sometimes be too hot for me to get the amount of bass I like for this sort of music without eq. (Admittedly, I like to feel the deep bass hit hard when I'm reliving my foolish youth bumping tupac etc.) 

The mainline doesn't have any such issue. No strident trebles for the win.


----------



## grizzlybeast

skeptic said:


> Hey grizzly. For me, with the anax mod in place and minimally bright tubes, crack + hd800s worked with hiphop (can't comment on reggae). Absent these conditions though, high hats could sometimes be too hot for me to get the amount of bass I like for this sort of music without eq. (Admittedly, I like to feel the deep bass hit hard when I'm reliving my foolish youth bumping tupac etc.)
> 
> The mainline doesn't have any such issue.


 
 Thanks a lot! 
  
 sounds like some work or extra money. maybe one day then


----------



## TwoEars

skeptic said:


> Hey TwoEars - sorry for the much delayed reply!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Read
> ...


 
  
 Great post! Thanks a lot for the input!
  
 Now I'm tempted to build a mainline! I've heard that it's labor intensive but pretty easy and with good instructions so should be doable. Maybe I'll make it an autumn/winter project.
  
 One (stupid) question about the mainline though - what's up with those tubes on the sides? Is that metal around the tubes? To make them heat up better? Doesn't look very appealing to me, you want to see that tube glow right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Once again thanks for a great post.


----------



## Feynman

Bought a pair of Sennheiser HD800 yesterday!  I haven't used them very much but I'm very happy with the sound. Right now I'm running them through my Schiit Vali and a HRT musicstreamer II DAc. I know the chain is not very good but for me this is a journey which just started with the headphones. As of now I think it sounds great though and I'm very happy. I have a bottlehead Crack as well which I just have to get some new tubes for and then I'll use that one!  
  
 Cheers


----------



## LugBug1

Congrats Feynamn! 
  
 Keep us informed how you like the Crack compared to the Vali.


----------



## Feynman

Will do! 
  
 They had a pair of Audeze LCD 2 in the store as well. At first I was def. set on getting them, tried them on and instantly felt the rubbed against the top of my head. If a few minutes of use would do that then I don't see myself wearing them for hours on end as I've done with my HD650. 
  
 As of now I don't find the treble really harsh eiter, I thought I was a treble sensitive guy since I sometimes find the treble at live concerts to hurt my ears a bit but these headphones seems good and I don't feel annoyed at all!


----------



## punit

lugbug1 said:


> Congrats Feynamn!
> 
> Keep us informed how you like the Crack compared to the Vali.


 

 My money's on the Crack


----------



## Feynman

Quick update on Vali vs Crack. My point goes to the latter. 
  
 Much smoother sound, more liquid and not as harsh sounding (I did not think the Vali was that harsh but compared to this it is). The soundstage is also a lot better on the Crack vs the Vali. Overall thus far the sound is a lot more enjoyable from the Crack.


----------



## punit

Feynman What tubes are you using on the Crack ?


----------



## preproman

sp3llv3xit said:


> Maybe I shouldn't have generalized the dismissal of the comparison between the two. But no matter what one uses to drive the HD800, it can never be made to sound thick enough to compare with planars. * Given the way the drivers are designed and built, there's just too much difference to make the comparison compete for purchase decision.*  I buy both.  They're not like a comparison or competition between the T1 and HD800.
> 
> That's just my personal take on the matter.  Planars sound fun. HD800 is reference.  Again, just my own interpretation.  Peace guys.


 
  
 Ha.. I've done it many times


----------



## magiccabbage

Has anyone washed the pads of the HD800? Maybe a video tutorial would be a good idea.


----------



## Canadian411

feynman said:


> Will do!
> 
> They had a pair of Audeze LCD 2 in the store as well. At first I was def. set on getting them, tried them on and instantly felt the rubbed against the top of my head. If a few minutes of use would do that then I don't see myself wearing them for hours on end as I've done with my HD650.
> 
> As of now I don't find the treble really harsh eiter, I thought I was a treble sensitive guy since I sometimes find the treble at live concerts to hurt my ears a bit but these headphones seems good and I don't feel annoyed at all!



I am not sure if others find the old and new hd800 the same but I bought hd800 twice (16xxx and now 26xxx).

The one with serial number 26xxx has better bass and no piercing trebles.

You've made the right choice picking up hd800 instead of lcd2/2.2/2.3/2...n/3/3.1/xc/x. 

Some people even say hd800 is better than stax 009  with the right amp.

Congratulations!!!


----------



## Feynman

Hey! Thanks!  
  
 For the power-tube I'm using a Sylvana 6AS7G tube and a 12AU7WA for the input. Nothing expensive or fancy! 
  
 After a few more hours of playing music they have loosened up considerably, the treble has calmed down more and the phones do get more and more enjoyable to listen to. 
  
 I have sn: 26458!


----------



## punit

If you ever decide to roll some tubes please put the GEC 6AS7G & TS 5998 (for power) high on your list.


----------



## purrin

feynman said:


> Quick update on Vali vs Crack. My point goes to the latter.
> 
> Much smoother sound, more liquid and not as harsh sounding (I did not think the Vali was that harsh but compared to this it is). The soundstage is also a lot better on the Crack vs the Vali. Overall thus far the sound is a lot more enjoyable from the Crack.


 
  
 Copy that. The Crack sounds like a more "mature" platform and catches up in terms of transient response in the treble with the Speedball. The Vali has a tendency to impart specific colorations (e.g., the rougher treble, but only in a relative sense). The Vali does sound more resolving of low level information than the Crack though.


----------



## Sorrodje

Metrum Octave at home 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . It helps me while I'm waiting my DNA sonett 2 .


----------



## MickeyVee

I liked the Vali with the HD800 for a change of taste (versus the Naim built in HP amp) so I wanted to move up the tube chain.  The Vali is now relegated to a drawer.  Had a chance to hear a Crack at the Toronto HeadFi meet and it was OK.  I preferred my setup but that's just my taste. What blew me away were the two Eddie Current amps there with amazing DACs.  Way out of my league so I'm going to live in HD800 mid-fi land.  Here's a picture of my current rig and probably how it will stay for a while.  With this setup, I can go Tube or SS depending on the mood. TBH, mostly tube these days. 
 Need to spend any spare cash on house reno's now before I can bring anything else home. I'm looking at you WA22, some day. Happy4now!


----------



## koiloco

^ will you be even happier if I told you that there's not a huge difference between your WA6 and WA22 (unbalanced)?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 IMO and experience, the only time there would be some clear distance between the 2 amps is when you run WA22 in full balanced mode.


----------



## MickeyVee

^ good to know, thanks.. I figured my next move, whenever it may be, would have to be balanced.


----------



## koiloco

mickeyvee said:


> ^ good to know, thanks.. I figured my next move, whenever it may be, would have to be balanced.


 
 Please note that this balanced vs unbalanced discussion only applies to the WA22.  For other amps, there might not be any difference in sound quality for the 2 connection methods.


----------



## Canadian411

koiloco said:


> ^ will you be even happier if I told you that there's not a huge difference between your WA6 and WA22 (unbalanced)?
> IMO and experience, the only time there would be some clear distance between the 2 amps is when you run WA22 in full balanced mode.




Do you think zana 2 se is better than wa22 balanced for hd800.?


----------



## koiloco

canadian411 said:


> Do you think zana 2 se is better than wa22 balanced for hd800.?


 
 I would not be able to answer your question cuz I haven't heard the zana but I have read quite a few positive reviews about zana/HD800 combo.  Regarding balanced vs unbalanced, IMO and experience, if an amp is designed to perform equally well in both connection modes, there won't be sonic difference though one can always point out that balanced connection usually rejects noise and deals with potential interference better.  Unfortunately, WA22 is not one of those amps as clearly stated by Mr. Woo somewhere on HF.  I read this when i researched the amp before purchase.
  
 Maybe, someone who has owned both could chime in and offer some insight.


----------



## akhyar

mickeyvee said:


> I liked the Vali with the HD800 for a change of taste (versus the Naim built in HP amp) so I wanted to move up the tube chain.  The Vali is now relegated to a drawer.  Had a chance to hear a Crack at the Toronto HeadFi meet and it was OK.  I preferred my setup but that's just my taste. What blew me away were the two Eddie Current amps there with amazing DACs.  Way out of my league so I'm going to live in HD800 mid-fi land.  Here's a picture of my current rig and probably how it will stay for a while.  With this setup, I can go Tube or SS depending on the mood. TBH, mostly tube these days.
> Need to spend any spare cash on house reno's now before I can bring anything else home. I'm looking at you WA22, some day. Happy4now!
> ....




I'm using the same cable as you.


----------



## LugBug1

mickeyvee said:


> I liked the Vali with the HD800 for a change of taste (versus the Naim built in HP amp) so I wanted to move up the tube chain.  The Vali is now relegated to a drawer.  Had a chance to hear a Crack at the Toronto HeadFi meet and it was OK.  I preferred my setup but that's just my taste. What blew me away were the two Eddie Current amps there with amazing DACs.  Way out of my league so I'm going to live in HD800 mid-fi land.  Here's a picture of my current rig and probably how it will stay for a while.  With this setup, I can go Tube or SS depending on the mood. TBH, mostly tube these days.
> Need to spend any spare cash on house reno's now before I can bring anything else home. I'm looking at you WA22, some day. Happy4now!


 
 Thats an enviable rig Mickey and looks great with the HD800. Oh, and theres nothing mid-fi about any Naim product


----------



## 62ohm

lol if that Naim DAC + WA6 of MickeyVee's is considered a mid-fi setup then what will become of my rig? Low-fi setup?


----------



## MickeyVee

I like the ADL cable and switch between that and a Q cable.  Both are great!
  
 Quote:


akhyar said:


> I'm using the same cable as you.


 
  
 Thanks.  The DAC section of the Naim is great but I would consider the HP amp section mid-fi though it's detailed and silky smooth.  Lacks a bit of slam.  The Woo sounds better to me.  Call me shallow but looks are an importat factor for me 


lugbug1 said:


> Thats an enviable rig Mickey and looks great with the HD800. Oh, and theres nothing mid-fi about any Naim product


 
  
 No such thing as lo-fi with the HD800! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





62ohm said:


> lol if that Naim DAC + WA6 of MickeyVee's is considered a mid-fi setup then what will become of my rig? Low-fi setup?


----------



## Canadian411

Ah.. MickeyVee, I remember you had the HD700, welcome to HD800 club  Why you sold it ? (I never liked HD700 by the way).


----------



## skeptic

koiloco said:


> I would not be able to answer your question cuz I haven't heard the zana but I have read quite a few positive reviews about zana/HD800 combo.  Regarding balanced vs unbalanced, IMO and experience, if an amp is designed to perform equally well in both connection modes, there won't be sonic difference though one can always point out that balanced connection usually rejects noise and deals with potential interference better.  Unfortunately, WA22 is not one of those amps as clearly stated by Mr. Woo somewhere on HF.  I read this when i researched the amp before purchase.
> 
> Maybe, someone who has owned both could chime in and offer some insight.


 
  
 FWIW, I liked the original Zana better than the WA22 when I heard them both in short succession at CanJam, but others could very well prefer the latter.  They are both fine amps.  To me, the Zana sounded a bit livelier and the WA22 a little more laid back, albeit quite a bit less tubey than many of Woo's other amps.  I assume the same would hold true for the ZDSE.   
  
 The "balanced" issue is a  interesting one, particularly due to the recent expiration of Nelson Pass' SuSy patent.  
  
 Per the engineers at Benchmark, among others, traditional "balanced" designs are properly viewed as having more cons than pros - unless you _need _the extra power to drive an inefficient transducer.  Push-pull or, alternatively, bridged amps generally _add_ noise and distortion (excluding common mode - which is really only relevant to long cable runs).  They also raise output impedance/reducing damping (theoretically bad but which may or may not be to the tastes of the user at issue).  Most notably, they cost about twice as much to build.  On the flip side, you get double the voltage (_moar power!_)_ _and double the slew rate, the latter of which is believed by most to be inaudible in the context of any competent amplifier.  
  
 For efficient headphones like the hd800's, a good 2-channel, single ended amp (which may or many not include true balanced outputs (i.e. a differential signal) via the use of output transformers, as implemented by bottlehead and DNA among others), should be the preferred design.  
  
  
 SuSy amps are evidently the exception to this rule.  I don't have the technical background necessary to fully appreciate the why of it, but if you look at Pass' technical summary article, you will note that he essentially agrees with the Benchmark guys in so far as suggesting that the 3 traditional balanced approaches either perform worse than, or at best, equal to, ordinary 2 channel single ended designs.  https://passlabs.com/articles/super-symmetric-amplification  
  


> By contrast, the Super-Symmetry topology does not use operational amplifiers as building blocks. It has two negative inputs and two positive outputs and consists of two matched gain blocks coupled at one central point where the voltage is ideally zero. The topology is unique in that at this point, the distortion contributed by each half appears out of phase with the signal, and we use this to reinforce the desired signal and cancel noise and distortion. This occurs mutually between the two halves of the circuit, and the result is signal symmetry with respect to both the voltage and current axis, and anti-symmetry for distortion and noise. This means that the distortion and noise of each half appears identically and cancels.


 
  
 In connection with the expiration of this patent, Dr. Gilmore, Spritzer and company have released gen2 SuSy dynahi and SuSy dynalo diy projects.  But aside from Pass amps, I'm not aware of any commercial headphone amps using this topology.  
  
 [Edited per Purrin's correction below.  Thanks!]


----------



## Currawong

What was saying to someone who asked me about balanced is: It's really something we only consider because it affects how we connect the headphones. When we buy an amp, most people don't think about anything much more than whether it is a tube amp, who made it and what people said about it. We don't think about the topology/circuit beyond that. We don't even realise that "balanced" can mean a number of different things, as can "tube amp" or "solid state". There are about a dozen common types of amp, but we don't realise that. If headphones had had a 4-pole plug to begin with, we probably wouldn't be asking the question most of the time.


----------



## MickeyVee

When I heard them at the Toronto HeadFi meet last year with my system at the time I found the bass was deeper and cleaner and that the highs where much smoother. The HD700 and HE500 went up for sale the next day to fund the HD800.  No looking back 
  
 Quote:


canadian411 said:


> Ah.. MickeyVee, I remember you had the HD700, welcome to HD800 club
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## purrin

Just a minor correction, the ZDSE is not transformer coupled. Pretty much the same thing as a ZD except with different output caps and a toggle switch for increased feedback / lower output Z / lower gain. The ZDT is the one which is transformer coupled. The Eddie Current house sound tends to be less "tubey" than most Woo amps.


----------



## Zoom25

What's the best DAC+AMP combo you guys have ever heard with the HD800?


----------



## Sorrodje

zoom25 said:


> What's the best DAC+AMP combo you guys have ever heard with the HD800?


 
  
 TotalDAC D1 dual + Eddie Current Balancing Act .


----------



## 62ohm

sorrodje said:


> TotalDAC D1 dual + Eddie Current Balancing Act .


 
  
 What about the DaVinci DAC?


----------



## Zoom25

sorrodje said:


> TotalDAC D1 dual + Eddie Current Balancing Act .


 
 I meant as a one piece combo thing, rather than separates, but thanks for that too


----------



## Sorrodje

62ohm said:


> What about the DaVinci DAC?


 
  
  
 Wayyyyy too expensive.


----------



## MickeyVee

The ones I've heard are the HDVD800 (need to try balanced), Naim DAC-V1 which I own and the McIntosh D100.  They are all  really good but will not get near a separate DAC/amp combo, even in the same price range. 
 The new McIntosh MHA-100 may be killer but at $5K, it would have to be.
 Quote:


zoom25 said:


> I meant as a one piece combo thing, rather than separates, but thanks for that too


----------



## rptlead

Hello,
  
 Not sure if this will be out of topic, if yes, please let me know so i can take it down.  Would i be able to appreciate HD800 with the ifi products as per this thread?
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/714057/ifi-product-set-to-drive-hd800

 I mostly listen to vocals, instrumentals/guitars, occasionally rock - I appreciate good amount of bass but i cant say i am a bass head.

 any opinion will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## TwoEars

rptlead said:


> Hello,
> 
> Not sure if this will be out of topic, if yes, please let me know so i can take it down.  Would i be able to appreciate HD800 with the ifi products as per this thread?
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/714057/ifi-product-set-to-drive-hd800
> ...


 
  
 Contrary to popular belief I think the HD800 sounds fine even on modest equipment, it's not a hard headphone to drive and it has high sensitivity.
  
 I've tried my HD800 with computer soundcards and it's definitely not bad sounding. In my mind a HD800 driven by $300 equipment still sound better than the vast majority of $300 headphones driven by high-end equipment.
  
 The problem with the HD800's is that they are super-revealing and have a slight treble peak, so if you match them with a bright dac, a bright amp and have poor recordings they're going to sound absolutely awful.
  
 Match them with neutral/warmer/darker/non-aggressive equipment and have good source material and you'll be fine even on low budget stuff.
  
 The HD800's are not that hard to drive and personally I think the HD800's is one of the few headphones where it's more important to pick a really good DAC than a good amp.


----------



## elvergun

twoears said:


> Contrary to popular belief I think the HD800 sounds fine even on modest equipment, it's not a hard headphone to drive and it has high sensitivity.


 
  
 +1


----------



## 62ohm

I tried plugging the HD800 straight into FiiO X3. While the volume may be loud enough for me even without high gain, to me it sounds unbelievably thin and lifeless. The lows were weak and highs were harsh. Interestingly, I didn't find the mids to be recessed, but that's about it. Soundstage do suffer as well..


----------



## BournePerfect

They do sound 'fine' on lesser equipment. Just-nowhere near their potential. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## LugBug1

For me they show you how good your amp is rather than synergy. But impedance matching will always effect performance as well and this has to be taken into consideration - as they will no doubt sound thin and lifeless with a low powered low impedance amp that is designed more for IEM's and 32ohm can's. They maybe very sensitive but they require voltage to gain any weight to the sound, simply because of their resistance.


----------



## JeremiahS

Hi everyone,
  
 I'm still deliberating between the HD800 and TH900 but I thought I'm going to ask for amplifier recommendation here since there is still a good chance of me ending up with the Sennheiser flagship. So please bear with my musings.
  
 I haven't had much experience with high-end solid-state amplifiers designed for headphones so my experience is limited to a couple few namely the HeadAmp GS-X 2, AURALiC Taurus MK2, Schiit Mjolnir and a balanced AMB Beta22. The last one is an open-source DIY but the builder is a professional and it's a "holds no barred" build, complete with a digital volume control.
  
 Listening impressions are done with the HD800 and TH900 using Esoteric P-05/D-05 CD transport and D/A processor stack.
  
 The Mjolnir is not in the same class as the other three so let's leave it out of the equation for now. 
  
 The Taurus MK2 and GS-X surprisingly sound quite similar to these ears with only minute differences here and there: the AURALiC unit has a meatier bass with a slight bass bloom while the HeadAmp unit has an airier, slightly more open treble. They both still have that solid-state aura about them though, perhaps what we would call a slightly cold, clinical sheen over the sound.
  
 Which now brings us to the Beta22.
  
 The AMB unit is really, really interesting because it doesn't have that archetypal solid-state sound: it has a liquidity to its sound that one normally attributes to excellent tube amps. At the same time, its ability to resolve details in the recordings is the best among the amps that I have tested in this comparison although I would say that the GS-X 2 is not too far behind.
  
 My only complaints is it runs extremely hot and aesthetically it's not as nice as the rest owing to its DIY nature. Sonically though, I think it's at least a step above.
  
 So what do I do next? Ideally I would want to avoid DIY design because I can't be bothered with the hassle but I have to admit that the Beta22 is a very tempting proposition. I would want to explore other options first though. 
  
 I'm aware that Schiit is releasing a new flagship amplifier. Do you folks think that it will have a comparable performance to the amplifiers that I've tested so far?
  
 I'm all ears to suggestions. 
  
 Last but not least, I would like to apologize for the lengthy post containing inane rambles of an old man.
  
 Cheers,
 Jeremiah


----------



## paradoxper

If you don't want to  look into DIY avenues then you're really left with trying out Eddie Current and Alex Cavalli's offerings. The Ragnarok seems promising, but I don't 
 think anyone has spent any meaningful time with it.


----------



## Canadian411

Zana Deux SE. My wishlist


----------



## Rossliew

I just bought a pair used with serial number 10024 without the benefit of trying them first. Using my Unison Research CDP out to a Vali driving the 800, I must admit they sound rather pleasing. They may not be as full bodied as some darker cans but the sheer speed makes the bass impact punchy and satisfying. Even on trebly metal recordings, the cans are able to decongest the arrangements and make it sound good. Case in point - Pungent Stench's Been Caught Buttering album is sizzling with treble energy yet it does not sound piercing or painful through the 800 and best of all, I'm able to hear greater clarity in the recording where it used to sound like a mass of swarming buzz saw guitars with other cans. Waiting to try it with my Little Dot Mk IIi and see if there's improvement. This is definitely a very, very distinguished pair of headphones, period.


----------



## Trey36

Can anyone recommend a good stand alone EQ?


----------



## Chodi

trey36 said:


> Can anyone recommend a good stand alone EQ?


 
 Here is a useful link:
  
 http://www.terrywest.nl/equalizers.html
  
 I use the CS12M it is free and it works with JRiver and Foobar as a vst plugin. I don't use it often but I believe it is very good.


----------



## YoengJyh

... Does anyone here try the Ear Max Pro Silver Edition OTL amp with HD800 before? I'm really wanna know what is your opinion on this tiny tube amp...


----------



## JeremiahS

paradoxper said:


> If you don't want to  look into DIY avenues then you're really left with trying out Eddie Current and Alex Cavalli's offerings. The Ragnarok seems promising, but I don't
> think anyone has spent any meaningful time with it.


 
  
  


canadian411 said:


> Zana Deux SE. My wishlist


 
  
 Hi guys, thank you for the advice but I would prioritize solid-state amps at the moment.
  
 It seems that our option is limited though unless you want to look into really esoteric brands such as Bakoon.


----------



## paradoxper

jeremiahs said:


> Hi guys, thank you for the advice but I would prioritize solid-state amps at the moment.
> 
> It seems that our option is limited though unless you want to look into really esoteric brands such as Bakoon.


 
 Pretty much. I'd say you can consider Dynahi (DIY) Ragnarok, ECP's line (if you can find one of his amps,) the Master 9 and maybe Liquid Gold.


----------



## Trey36

Thank you


----------



## Sonido

jeremiahs said:


> Hi guys, thank you for the advice but I would prioritize solid-state amps at the moment.
> 
> It seems that our option is limited though unless you want to look into really esoteric brands such as Bakoon.




I think roguegeek compiled a list of 6-8 SS amps for the HD800 between the price range of $1000-2000 a couple weeks back in this thread.


----------



## rydenfan

jeremiahs said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm still deliberating between the HD800 and TH900 but I thought I'm going to ask for amplifier recommendation here since there is still a good chance of me ending up with the Sennheiser flagship. So please bear with my musings.
> 
> ...




Not sure what the rest of your chain was. But I can guarantee in my system that the Taurus is not cold or clinical. Beyond my own experience I haft never seen a single user report or professional reviewer say this either


----------



## Amictus

jeremiahs said:


> Hi guys, thank you for the advice but I would prioritize solid-state amps at the moment.
> 
> It seems that our option is limited though unless you want to look into really esoteric brands such as Bakoon.


 
 I'm enjoying my newly-acquired Lehmann Linear SE at the moment, FWIW.


----------



## Chodi

rydenfan said:


> Not sure what the rest of your chain was. But I can guarantee in my system that the Taurus is not cold or clinical. Beyond my own experience I haft never seen a single user report or professional reviewer say this either


 
 I totally agree that the Taurus is neither cold or clinical. I think the Taurus is one of the top choices for the HD800. I always been into tube amps and currently own 2 but the Taurus has made me a complete convert.


----------



## JeremiahS

@paradoxper
 Hi, thank you for the heads-up about the ECP amps! I have never heard of the brand before so it's nice to learn something new here. 
  
 @Sonido and @Amictus
 I shall take a look. Thank you for the tips.
  
@rydenfan and @Chodi
 I apologize if my impressions caused a misunderstanding but please be aware that I was speaking in relative terms. By themselves neither the Taurus MK2 or GS-X 2 sounds too overly cold nor clinical (the fact that I allude to by using the term "slightly" in my original post) but the coloration becomes apparent when you compare them directly with an amplifier that has even less of such properties, which in this case is the Beta22.
  
 Actually, the Beta has a very "old school" sound to me which reminds me of the very best of Krell amps.


----------



## skeptic

Given your comment, a krell ksa5 klone might also be worth looking into.


----------



## preproman

If your going DIY why not go for the Su Sy Dynahi?  IMO it's miles ahead of the Beta22.  
  
 FWIW the Beta22 kicked the GS-1 out the door, the GS-X mk2 kicked the Beta22 out the door, then the F1J kicked the GS-X mk2 out the door.


----------



## Audio Jester

preproman said:


> If your going DIY why not go for the Su Sy Dynahi?  IMO it's miles ahead of the Beta22.
> 
> FWIW the Beta22 kicked the GS-1 out the door, the GS-X mk2 kicked the Beta22 out the door, then the F1J kicked the GS-X mk2 out the door.


 

 What HPs did you try with the SuSy?  I have been curious if such a powerful amp could run sensitive headphones like the TH900 without too much hiss?  I am sure that it would do the business with the HD800.


----------



## preproman

OH - my bad.  I haven't tried the SuSy yet.  I've heard an older Dynahi a few years ago and it was with the HD800.  The older Dynahi was also miles ahead of the Beta22.  So I was just taking an educated guess that the SuSy would be the same or better.


----------



## Audio Jester

preproman said:


> OH - my bad.  I haven't tried the SuSy yet.  I've heard an older Dynahi a few years ago and it was with the HD800.  The older Dynahi was also miles ahead of the Beta22.  So I was just taking an educated guess that the SuSy would be the same or better.


 

 Tsk Tsk Preproman.... getting my hopes up like that.


----------



## Currawong

Just because it looked great in the morning light.


----------



## LugBug1

Nice Amos^^^^
  
 I think I'll celebrate a little sunshine over here, first really nice day of the year so far.


----------



## JeremiahS

skeptic said:


> Given your comment, a krell ksa5 klone might also be worth looking into.


 
  
 The KSA-5 is indeed legendary but it's extremely rare no?
  


preproman said:


> If your going DIY why not go for the Su Sy Dynahi?  IMO it's miles ahead of the Beta22.
> 
> FWIW the Beta22 kicked the GS-1 out the door, the GS-X mk2 kicked the Beta22 out the door, then the F1J kicked the GS-X mk2 out the door.


 
  
 It's the other way round, I prefer buying commercial products whenever possible.
  
 The builder of the Beta 22 that I auditioned said that the Dynahi shares a similar concept with the GS-X 2 so chances are it won't have the liquidity and resolving property that I seek.
  
 The F1J is a power amp, I don't think it's suitable for headphone duty. 
  
 Regards,
 Jeremiah


----------



## TwoEars

You do realize that their company name is "First Watt" right?
  
 It's also a very unique design, current source. Don't jump to conclusions...


----------



## preproman

The Beta22 is a good amp, no question. However, being more resolving than the GS- mk2 is laughable to say the least. I owned a very well built 4 channel for 2 years and loved it until the GS-X mk2 came in the house.

FWIW the F1J is more suitable for "any" headphone than any other heaphone amp I've owned or heard. 

I guess we all do hear different. Although I like to say we hear the same things and just describe them different.


----------



## TwoEars

@Preproman
  
 Do you know if the First Watt "Current Source" is similar to the "Current Drive" implemented by the Bakoon HP21?
  
 Current drive (source?) could be the biggest thing to happen in amplifier tech in.... well since the introduction of the op-amp or mosfet really.
  
 The HP21 is getting absolutely stellar reviews all around, and now you're saying that the F1J is the best universal amp you know.
  
 The principle is genius really. If you control the voltage the amount of current that goes through the circuit will forever be dependent on the resistance and impedance.
  
 But if you are able to control the current.... well... now we're talking. Resistance or impedance doesn't matter as long as you have enough power to negate them.
  
 I predict we'll see many more current drive (source) amps in the next 2-5 years!


----------



## preproman

TwoEars,
  
 Sorry man - I'm not technical enough to answer your question.  I hope someone else who is qualified can chime in.


----------



## Swolern

Just finished building my Bottlehead Crack. 
  
 SOUNDS AMAZING WITH MY HD800!!!
  
 So so fun to build!!!! My first soldering project too. What an experience!!! Listening to something you build from the ground up with your own hands!! Definitely goes head to head with $1000+ amps!! Absolutely amazing, highly recommended!!!
  
 And i haven't even added the Speedball yet. Saving that for another day.


----------



## skeptic

Congrats Swolern!  The crack's a keeper, no doubt - and so incredibly gratifying to complete 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Enjoy that sweet stock sound with your hd800's for a little while and trust that it gets even better with the speedball and other mods.


----------



## frankrondaniel

swolern said:


> Just finished building my Bottlehead Crack.
> 
> SOUNDS AMAZING WITH MY HD800!!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats!  It's good to hear that the HD800s sound good with it.  I was given the kit for Christmas but I haven't found the time to tackle putting that thing together.  I think part of it is fear of damaging it - I've never soldered before either.  Hearing it was your first soldering experience helps.
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## TwoEars

preproman said:


> TwoEars,
> 
> Sorry man - I'm not technical enough to answer your question.  I hope someone else who is qualified can chime in.


 
  
 No problem. I understand basic circuits but I'm not an electrical engineer so if I'm going to try and understand how this current drive actually works it's going to take me a while... but the principle is brilliant. It's an inherently  superior operating principle.
  


swolern said:


> Just finished building my Bottlehead Crack.
> 
> SOUNDS AMAZING WITH MY HD800!!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice, I might try and build the mainline kit in the fall when the snow comes.


----------



## MattTCG

Can I get some opinions please. I have an uberfrost and crack with speedball. Is this enough to enjoy the hd800? AND...would you consider the hd800 a complementary hp to my hd600?
  
 thanks...


----------



## zerodeefex

matttcg said:


> Can I get some opinions please. I have an uberfrost and crack with speedball. Is this enough to enjoy the hd800? AND...would you consider the hd800 a complementary hp to my hd600?
> 
> thanks...




CEE TEE has a non speedballed crack and enjoys his HD800 on there when away from his BA.

I used an uberfrost > Dynahi > HD800 and found it to be enjoyable as well.


----------



## magiccabbage

matttcg said:


> Can I get some opinions please. I have an uberfrost and crack with speedball. Is this enough to enjoy the hd800? AND...would you consider the hd800 a complementary hp to my hd600?
> 
> thanks...


 
 you gonna be joining us here soon? - how exciting! 
  
 I'd say the crack+speedball will be fine. Heard a lot of good things about crack and HD800. Dunno bout the uberfrost though.


----------



## bearFNF

Been using the uberfrost for a long time now and it is very nice with the HD800. don't know about the crack/speedball but others have said good things about it.


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks guys!! I've got the hd800 on my shortlist now.


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> Thanks guys!! I've got the hd800 on my shortlist now.


 
 About bloody time!


----------



## MattTCG

lugbug1 said:


> About bloody time!


 
 I'm very stubborn. Even when members I trust point out the obvious to me.


----------



## OldSkool

Matt, I just bought a HD800 with Anax 2 mod and I'm waiting on a XLR to 1/4 adapter to listen to it thru my Lyr.

If it's not my cup of tea, I can make you a deal.

Cheers, JC


----------



## magiccabbage

matttcg said:


> I'm very stubborn. Even when members I trust point out the obvious to me.


 
 wait till you hear it in your rig. You are coming from hd650 right? I did that also, well i went HD650 - T1 - HD800. 
  
 You will hear improvements straight away. After you have them for 2 or 3 weeks you should put back on the HD650's - you will be shocked! I know I was. The longer you spend with the 2 headphones the bigger the gap in quality between them becomes.  
  
  
  
 When I first got my HD800 I thought that they were very close to the T1. I used to swap the 2 headphones out depending on the music I was playing. Even after 2 or 3 months of having both I thought that they were very close but now there is only the HD800. When I put on the T1 I get about 2 or 3 tracks into an album and I have to switch to HD800. 
  
 Even for pop/electronic and funk/soul the HD800 is miles ahead for me. I will sell the T1 in July to a friend.


----------



## magiccabbage

I wouldn't mod the HD800's with a tube amp. they should be fine


----------



## zerodeefex

magiccabbage said:


> I wouldn't mod the HD800's with a tube amp. they should be fine


 
  
 I have an Eddie Current 2A3 MKIV and I can say the latest Anax mod is still a must.


----------



## ubs28

How well does the Chord Hugo pair with the Sennheiser HD800?


----------



## pdrm360

matttcg said:


> Can I get some opinions please. I have an uberfrost and crack with speedball. Is this enough to enjoy the hd800? AND...would you consider the hd800 a complementary hp to my hd600?
> 
> thanks...


 
 I even enjoy them on the Lyr.  Looking forward to see you more in this thread.


----------



## MattTCG

Which is better for the 800, uberfrost or gungnir? Hm...
  
 Would it be worth upgrading my dac?


----------



## James-uk

matttcg said:


> Which is better for the 800, uberfrost or gungnir? Hm...
> 
> Would it be worth upgrading my dac?




Just upgrade your record collection. The 800s like to remind you that the sound engineer had lesser equiptment than you!


----------



## MattTCG

HA!! I have loads of hi-res music to listen in my collection.  (evil grin)


----------



## radiojam

Just ordered the HD800 after several years of thought. I strongly considered the T1 but I am a card carrying Sennheiser fanboy so I think I knew what my decision would be all along. I am coming from the HD650 with Uberfrost and Valhalla and will be running the same setup for the HD800 (until there is another pesky itch I need to scratch). I can't wait!


----------



## paradoxper

matttcg said:


> Which is better for the 800, uberfrost or gungnir? Hm...
> 
> Would it be worth upgrading my dac?


 
 Just stick with your current DAC. And no reason to entertain the Anax mod, it takes too much away. Way overrated.


----------



## Greed

paradoxper said:


> Just stick with your current DAC. And no reason to entertain the Anax mod, it takes too much away. Way overrated.


 
  
 What versions of the mod have you tried?


----------



## paradoxper

greed said:


> What versions of the mod have you tried?


 
 Up to the most recent. Which is like over a year old. Anax has been saying he's working on a newer one for ever.


----------



## Greed

paradoxper said:


> Up to the most recent. Which is like over a year old. Anax has been saying he's working on a newer one for ever.


 
  
 It isn't for everyone, I agree. But it works as intended IMO, which is far from "overrated". It is being tweaked to address the shortcomings.


----------



## paradoxper

greed said:


> It isn't for everyone, I agree. But it works as intended IMO, which is far from "overrated". It is being tweaked to address the shortcomings.


 
 We'll see when/if it's ever released.


----------



## Rossliew

I am using the Modi but i suspect this is holding back the cans. Everything sounds bright, even thru the Lyr. Only when I roll in some Amperex Golden Globes do they sound warmer. Am I on the right track here? Am also mulling if the Valhalla might have been a better amp choice..any thoughts, guys?


----------



## zerodeefex

I've seen a few Anax modded cans and I've noticed a lot of people stink at cutting the materials well. I've also noticed quite a bit of variance in shelf liner used.


----------



## bearFNF

rossliew said:


> I am using the Modi but i suspect this is holding back the cans. Everything sounds bright, even thru the Lyr. Only when I roll in some Amperex Golden Globes do they sound warmer. Am I on the right track here? Am also mulling if the Valhalla might have been a better amp choice..any thoughts, guys?


 

 I have the Modi also and noticed a marked improvement going to the bifrost and then uberfrosting it with my asgard 2, even before I got the taboo mkIII. 
  
 I'd actually try the Vali before the Valhalla, IMHO the Vali is very good with the 800's and my uberfrost.


----------



## ultrabike

paradoxper said:


> We'll see when/if it's ever released.


 
  
 Dunno if it matters at this point to you, going by your profile it seems you no longer have HD800s and seem to be sticking to your KGSSHV + SR-007 combo.
  
 I disagree w you about the Anax mods. I heard Anax's own HD800s and though they were great. Didn't like the stock HD800 that much.


----------



## paradoxper

ultrabike said:


> Dunno if it matters at this point to you, going by your profile it seems you no longer have HD800s and seem to be sticking to your KGSSHV + SR-007 combo.
> 
> I disagree w you about the Anax mods. I heard Anax's own HD800s and though they were great. Didn't like the stock HD800 that much.


 
 I can always jump back into the dynamic game. Plus, I like to keep up with stuff.
  
 That's ok. We're not all going to agree on all things. I just decided to share how I felt the Anax mod wasn't great.
 For some, it's gonna work wonders. Nature of the game.


----------



## Rossliew

bearfnf said:


> I have the Modi also and noticed a marked improvement going to the bifrost and then uberfrosting it with my asgard 2, even before I got the taboo mkIII.
> 
> I'd actually try the Vali before the Valhalla, IMHO the Vali is very good with the 800's and my uberfrost.




Tried the Vali with Modi and the sound remains thinnish. Looks like the cans are revealing an inferior source signal from the Modi. Am thinking maybe a Dac like the minimax might be a good complement.


----------



## holeout

ubs28 said:


> How well does the Chord Hugo pair with the Sennheiser HD800?


 
 The Hugo is the best portable dac/amp I heard for the HD800, driving it with power, authority and good tonal balance. With a good source, it an amazing little package that I can live comfortably with even compared to desktop setups.


----------



## Rossliew

Anyone spent some time with the Cavalli Liquid Glass and HD800 combo? Appreciate your impressions, please : )


----------



## pdrm360

rossliew said:


> I am using the Modi but i suspect this is holding back the cans. Everything sounds bright, even thru the Lyr. Only when I roll in some Amperex Golden Globes do they sound warmer. Am I on the right track here? Am also mulling if the Valhalla might have been a better amp choice..any thoughts, guys?


 
  
 That's because of the Modi. Change your DAC or try BH Crack without the Speedball.


----------



## Rossliew

pdrm360 said:


> That's because of the Modi. Change your DAC or try BH Crack without the Speedball.


 
 Yeah, guessed as much but I'm holding it back till I sort the amp. Now using the Little Dot Mk III to drive the cans and still waiting for some tubes to arrive. Mulling over whether I should just go Gungnir instead of Uberfrost or perhaps the MiniMax Dac Plus.


----------



## preproman

paradoxper said:


> Just stick with your current DAC. And no reason to entertain the Anax mod, it takes too much away. Way overrated.


 
  
 I agree with you on this.  The two I heard took away what I liked about the HD800s.  I have no problem at all with this so called peak.


----------



## MIKELAP

matttcg said:


> Thanks guys!! I've got the hd800 on my shortlist now.


 
 Started out a couple years ago with a Lawton modded pair of Denon's D5000 and since i got the HD800 i hardly listen to the D-5000 anymore  you wont regret your purchase i would think.


----------



## Rossliew

After some experimentation with my Schiit and the HD800, i found a satisfying combo which (to me) preserves the expansive soundstage and superb clarity of the 800s whilst fleshing out more of the bottom end which makes the music fuller bodied and more fun to listen to :
  
 Acer Aspire 5745G laptop running Spotify Premium > Audioquest Cinnamon USB cable > Schiit Lyr as pre-amp (with GE 6BQ7A tubes / Supra Lorad 2.5 power cords) > Schiit PYST RCA interconnects > Schiit Vali > HD800 (stock cabled, no Anax mod)
  
 Need to try different tube combos with the Lyr later. 
  
 As an aside, I also tried the Lyr as pre-amp into the LD Mk 3, which sounded pretty good but I somewhat prefered the LD as a pre-amp into the Lyr. 
  
 But the first mentioned combo goes to show how versatile and impressive the Vali is. Definitely should be on anyone's buy list.


----------



## LugBug1

preproman said:


> I agree with you on this.  The two I heard took away what I liked about the HD800s.  *I have no problem at all with this so called peak.  *


 
 Same here regarding the so called peak. This thread keeps going round in circles with the same subject but I suppose it has to when new peeps join in. 
  
 The HD800 aren't as peaky in the treble as say - Grado, Denon, AKG, Beyerdynamic in general and so to be fair they aren't really a peaky headphone at all. They will sound brighter up top compared to hp's with rolled off treble however - HD650, LCD2 for e.g. They have about the same brightness level as the higher end Hifiman's. Balanced with the rest of the freq response. They are transparent - and will sound bright if your source is. If you source is warm then they will sound warm.    
  
 I can understand some being sensitive to the transparency of the HD800 however, and so a bit of EQ or a modification to calm the treble for young or just sensitive ears can make a lot of sense. Also there a lot of bad or hard edged recordings out there and the Senn's will never comfort you from those. 
  
 But this is how it is when you buy a super transparent high end headphone. Your bad recordings get banished to a box in the attic haha


----------



## Failed Engineer

The "you can't listen to poorly mastered albums with the HD800" is a myth too.  With the right chain, today's R&B and pop sound damn good on the HD800.


----------



## James-uk

I personally think it just takes getting used to. I've just had a few weeks away from them and have been listening to my speakers /hd600/ momentums and coming back to them is a revelation! They are so much better than the others. The sound is so clean/ clear/ detailed/ airy/ focused it's truly remarkable . I can understand how this can be perceived as bright etc but I just find it amazing that a headphone or any transducer can sound this good.


----------



## MickeyVee

After a session with the Grado RS1i and then going to the HD800, the HD800 sound dark.
 I find no peak with the HD800 and for me, it has absolutely fabulous exteded and detailed treble and I have no fatigue, ever.  Can't say that about the RS1i eventhough I really like them.
  
 When reading other peoples comments/criticisms/praises, you really have to take into consideration their source, amplification and personal listening preferences.  For the new peeps.. you hear what you hear and should judge for themselves on their own equipment.  Our opinions are just that, opinions other than the fact that the HD800 are one if the best headphones around  .. if they suit your listening style and preferences.
  
 Running off a WA6, I'm a bit on the dark side and that suits me. I've read priaises with other amplifiers that people love, listened for myself and they simply did not do it for me. 
 Trust your ears!
  
 Quote:


lugbug1 said:


>


----------



## listen4joy

i plan to build a setup with my future HD800.
 do i need amp and dac toghter?
 my amp will be Headamp GSX-MK2 
 and the source will be OPPO BDP105 and my pc (foobar2000) and Asus Xonar D2X
 i need a good DAC like PWD or AUDIO GD MASTER 7?
 amp is not enough? and maybe the oppo source is not good enough?
 suggestions? i am confused (noob)


----------



## preproman

That combo will work just fine.  No need to be confused.


----------



## MickeyVee

Actully sounds like it would be a pretty awesome setup.  BD105 would be a wonderful source and the GSX is a pretty respected amplifier.
 Enjoy!


----------



## listen4joy

so i dont need DAC?


----------



## bearFNF

Fully agree on the oppo as a good source. The GSX is good, also. Like has been said, no worries with that setup.


----------



## MickeyVee

So, what is your source? Just discs (CD, SACD, DVDA) or discs and computer.. The Oppo can be used as an outboard DAC. Great place to start!
  
 From Oppo: *USB Asynchronous DAC* – By bypassing the low fidelity, poor quality DAC of traditional computer soundcards, the BDP-105 turns any computer into a high performing multi-media source by converting digital audio to analog through the ESS Sabre32 Reference DAC. If your computer can play it, the BDP-105 can convert it to analog.
  
  
 Quote:


listen4joy said:


> so i dont need DAC?


----------



## verber

listen4joy said:


> i plan to build a setup with my future HD800.
> do i need amp and dac toghter?
> my amp will be Headamp GSX-MK2
> and the source will be OPPO BDP105 and my pc (foobar2000) and Asus Xonar D2X
> ...


 
 My experience with all headphone is that once you get into a decent DAC (AQ Dragonfly, Meridian Explorer, CEnterence DACport, etc) you are at the 90-95% of the sound quality you are likely going to get. e.g. you are into the world of diminishing returns where you typically spend ever increasing amounts of money to get small improvement in sound quality.
  
 The Oppo 105 is an amazing versatile item. If you need that versatility then you won't regret using the Oppo 105, and would likely need to spend close to the price of the Oppo 105 on a dedicated DAC to make a significant improvement in SQ. I would say the Oppo 105 is not going to stop you from enjoying the HD800.  Something like the Master-7 or PWD would be a step up.  How much of an improve you hear I can't predict, but I doubt it will be a day -vs- night difference.
  
 With amplifiers you want an amplifier than can cleanly put 500mw into the HD800 or you will be seriously holding it back. This rules out all the USB only DACs or low power headphone out/amplifiers I have tried.  But once you have gotten into on the the decent amplifiers you will be at the 90% of the SQ and the HD800 will sound quite good.
  
 The HD800 scale very well, so going with a top end headphone amplifier will improve the sound quality.  I found the HD800 very enjoyable with a DragonFly into a Headamp Pico Power or GS-1, or being driven my the HiFi-M8.  But a top end DAC + the Headamp GS-Xmk2 did take the SQ up a level.  Personally I don't think there is a better amp for the HD800 than the GS-Xmk2, though there are a few which are different but equal such as the EC Balancing Act.
  
 Whatever you settle on, just remember that most of us experience adaptive hedonism, e.g. what is amazing the first time we hear it can easily become just ok after awhile because you get used to what is amazing.  This can lead to a never ending chase (and emptying of the wallet). Personally, I recommend people find a sound quality that lets them enjoy the music and doesn't distract and then work to cultivate a sense of gratitude for what they are hearing.
  
 --Mark


----------



## rydenfan

Has anyone compared the ALO Salt & Pepper cable versus the Moon Audio Black Dragon V2 Premium cable? Or is cable talk taboo in this thread...I am a new HD800 owner and looking for the best cable to pair it with.


----------



## rydenfan

listen4joy said:


> i plan to build a setup with my future HD800.
> do i need amp and dac toghter?
> my amp will be Headamp GSX-MK2
> and the source will be OPPO BDP105 and my pc (foobar2000) and Asus Xonar D2X
> ...




If you are truly building your setup around the HD800 have you also considered the DNA Stratus? Seems like people are pretty psyched with how it pairs with the HD800’s


----------



## magiccabbage

verber said:


> My experience with all headphone is that once you get into a decent DAC (AQ Dragonfly, Meridian Explorer, CEnterence DACport, etc) you are at the 90-95% of the sound quality you are likely going to get. e.g. you are into the world of diminishing returns where you typically spend ever increasing amounts of money to get small improvement in sound quality.
> 
> The Oppo 105 is an amazing versatile item. If you need that versatility then you won't regret using the Oppo 105, and would likely need to spend close to the price of the Oppo 105 on a dedicated DAC to make a significant improvement in SQ. I would say the Oppo 105 is not going to stop you from enjoying the HD800.  Something like the Master-7 or PWD would be a step up.  How much of an improve you hear I can't predict, but I doubt it will be a day -vs- night difference.
> 
> ...


 
 point taken but it is very hard to be satisfied, at least for me. I like the chase.


----------



## verber

magiccabbage said:


> point taken but it is very hard to be satisfied, at least for me. I like the chase.




Yup. What it takes to satisfy differs between people. I am more easily satisfied than some here, but harder to satisfy than the average listener. As to the chase, there are some people that the chase is the hobbie... For me the chase isn't as interesting as listening to music without things that distract me.


----------



## koiloco

verber said:


> Yup. What it takes to satisfy differs between people. I am more easily satisfied than some here, but harder to satisfy than the average listener. As to the chase, there are some people that the chase is the hobbie... For me the chase isn't as interesting as listening to music without things that distract me.


 
 +1 very well said.


----------



## Frank I

No matter how many headphone I listen too and I  have quite a few here I always gravitate back to the hd800 eventually .


----------



## Eee Pee

I had to get in on page 666.
  
 On my head are 800s into a Mjolnir into a Sony CDP playing Primus' Pork Soda, and all I can say is


----------



## xdog

I've recently heard the hd800, and was impressed by it 3d-like feature.
  
 My question is is it natural or just a gimmick?
  
 I'm refering here to mixer made content (rock,pop), not to 'naturally' recorded (that has 2mics before whole band or orchestra) cause those sound 3d event on much cheaper stuff.
 You know, the stuff which is produced by recording each instrument separatly (or simultaniously but each instrument has its own mic),
 when then some guy those the positioning using a mixer and predefined schema (like rythmics guitars on the left).
 Because those recordings sound rather flat (there is not much depth, or layers) on headphones like HD600,Pro80,K550. There is additional 3dness added on for example akg 701 or fidelio l1, but for me that seems kind of artifical.
  
 For instance HD800 have more than normal content above 10kHz (which i do like), but that might be forcing more 3d ness?
  
 Actually I don't have a reference with a proper stereo setup (just wrongly positioned 5.1 setup, that why I'm more into heaphones)


----------



## LugBug1

^^ Originally stereo was starkly left and right(still is). Speakers headphones etc all set to emphasize this with our modern hifi's over the old mono ones. These days both speakers and headphones try to replicate a more realistic image. Good speakers shouldn't sound left and right but more 'in front' as well as to the sides there should be no gaps in the image. When you close your eyes with good speakers you shouldn't be able to discern where the speakers are. When you are at a concert the sound surrounds you, so in that respect headphones that create a more whole image rather than just left and right are infact more realistic in creating what and actual band or orchestra sounds like live. After all real life is 3d!


----------



## Rossliew

eee pee said:


> I had to get in on page 666.
> 
> On my head are 800s into a Mjolnir into a Sony CDP playing Primus' Pork Soda, and all I can say is




How is the sound thru the Mjolnir?


----------



## OldSkool

rossliew said:


> How is the sound thru the Mjolnir?


 

 I would like to know this also.


----------



## Frank I

The hd800 listening on the Mk2  balanced with the BDP 105 to Rob Wasserman Trilogy and bass is very textured and defined and not missing anything with this combo.  The HD800 is still my goto headphone when I really want to know what on the recordingor the gear. MK2 is perfect for them


----------



## YoengJyh

My experience with HD800 is a bit bright and thin in sound. I tuned it by using a cropper RCA cable (Crimson audio) from DAC to Tube amp. After that, everything is fine and starting to enjoy music more than 1.5years.


----------



## Rossliew

yoengjyh said:


> My experience with HD800 is a bit bright and thin in sound. I tuned it by using a cropper RCA cable (Crimson audio) from DAC to Tube amp. After that, everything is fine and starting to enjoy music more than 1.5years.


 
 Which tube amp are you using? I'm still trying to get my ears around the brightish sound...


----------



## YoengJyh

rossliew said:


> Which tube amp are you using? I'm still trying to get my ears around the brightish sound...


 
  
 I am using EarMax Pro Silver Edition OTL tube amp. Is about 850euro new.


----------



## Frank I

yoengjyh said:


> My experience with HD800 is a bit bright and thin in sound. I tuned it by using a cropper RCA cable (Crimson audio) from DAC to Tube amp. After that, everything is fine and starting to enjoy music more than 1.5years.


 
 The HD800 is very amp and source dependent because it is so transparent and accurate and let you hear what aever is not right in the chain. Its needs good component matching to get the best out of it. I think it still the best overall dyabnamic headphone on th eemarlket and gives me everything IO want in a reference product


----------



## Rossliew

frank i said:


> The HD800 is very amp and source dependent because it is so transparent and accurate and let you hear what aever is not right in the chain. Its needs good component matching to get the best out of it. I think it still the best overall dyabnamic headphone on th eemarlket and gives me everything IO want in a reference product


 
 Frank, I would appreciate advice, please. I'm very close to putting these up for sale as I have a limited budget to get the right combo. Basically I listen to metal a lot and whilst I can tolerate treble, a lot of music when played through both my Little Dot Mk III or Lyr sound very sharp. Tuning with tubes don't really help. I currently only have the Modi as DAC. Question - do I need to change BOTH Dac and amp or would changing just the Dac suffice?


----------



## YoengJyh

rossliew said:


> Frank, I would appreciate advice, please. I'm very close to putting these up for sale as I have a limited budget to get the right combo. Basically I listen to metal a lot and whilst I can tolerate treble, a lot of music when played through both my Little Dot Mk III or Lyr sound very sharp. Tuning with tubes don't really help. I currently only have the Modi as DAC. Question - do I need to change BOTH Dac and amp or would changing just the Dac suffice?


 
  
 How you connect the dac to tube? Do you have a better cropper cable? It helps.


----------



## Rossliew

yoengjyh said:


> How you connect the dac to tube? Do you have a better cropper cable? It helps.


 
 I use Wireworld copper interconnects. Doesn't really make much of a difference to my ears. I suppose it is just the sound signature of the cans.


----------



## Frank I

rossliew said:


> Frank, I would appreciate advice, please. I'm very close to putting these up for sale as I have a limited budget to get the right combo. Basically I listen to metal a lot and whilst I can tolerate treble, a lot of music when played through both my Little Dot Mk III or Lyr sound very sharp. Tuning with tubes don't really help. I currently only have the Modi as DAC. Question - do I need to change BOTH Dac and amp or would changing just the Dac suffice?


 
 If you want to keep the HD800 and are limited for funds the Matrix solid state amp i a terrific match for the hd800. I would also look to upgrade the dac but realize most metal is recorded poorly and no matte rhow much you improve your gear the HD800 will let you know exactly what the recording is doing.


----------



## Rossliew

frank i said:


> If you want to keep the HD800 and are limited for funds the Matrix solid state amp i a terrific match for the hd800. I would also look to upgrade the dac but realize most metal is recorded poorly and no matte rhow much you improve your gear the HD800 will let you know exactly what the recording is doing.


 
 Thanks, Frank. In that case, it will be quite futile to spend more money upgrading the source/amp if the recording itself is flawed. I should then purchase a more forgiving pair of headphones. In any case, which Matrix amp are you referring to? Sorry I have not heard of it before.


----------



## Feynman

I believe he is referring to the Matrix M-stage amp. 
  
 On a side note I bought the HD800 two weeks ago and are already considering buying the CMA800R when I got the dough for it. Seems like a great amp and something you can use for a long time.
 Then it's the DAC's turn to be upgraded, though I feel that the discussion regarding DAC's here contain a bit to much black magic for me to believe in the differences people claim to notice...


----------



## magiccabbage

frank i said:


> If you want to keep the HD800 and are limited for funds the Matrix solid state amp i a terrific match for the hd800. I would also look to upgrade the dac but realize most metal is recorded poorly and no matte rhow much you improve your gear the HD800 will let you know exactly what the recording is doing.


 
 +1 most metal bands have terrible recording.


----------



## Rossliew

Looks like the HD800 will be put up for sale. Anyone interested, please PM me. Need the funds to look for a more forgiving pair of headphones. All in all, it was a good experience despite the short time I spent with the 800.


----------



## Frank I

rossliew said:


> Thanks, Frank. In that case, it will be quite futile to spend more money upgrading the source/amp if the recording itself is flawed. I should then purchase a more forgiving pair of headphones. In any case, which Matrix amp are you referring to? Sorry I have not heard of it before.


 
 M stage


----------



## TwoEars

rossliew said:


> Looks like the HD800 will be put up for sale. Anyone interested, please PM me. Need the funds to look for a more forgiving pair of headphones. All in all, it was a good experience despite the short time I spent with the 800.


 
  
 Try the HD650, Fidelio X1, Hifiman HE-500 or Audeze LCD-2/3.
  
 Those are my personal favorites for a more forgiving sound.
  
 If you want to give the HD800 one last chance try a pure copper cable (doesn't need to be fancy), and some mild EQ'ing of the 6kHz band, does wonders for taming the HD800 in my opinion. See my sig for an EQ setup to try if you're interested.


----------



## amham

I've just received my new HD 800's ser.no. 28xxxx. Yes, they are are "bright" compared to Senn 650's or Audeze (owned LCD2/3 and sold them for the terrific LCD-X which is a keeper). however this can easily be rectified with a little judicious EQ in JRiver 19. The holographic nature of the sound is an easy trade off for their bright tendency. Mine seem to have a good native bass response enhanced by a EQ rise of +3 at 60Hz, +2.3 at 170Hz, +1.5 at 310Hz, -1.2db at 6khz and flat thereafter. Amp is Woo WA22 (assorted tubes) with Benchmark DAC2 HGC. So, yes I've spent a "bit" (that is why I've worked hard my entire life) but to my ears worth even penny in enjoyment. BTW, how do you get that freq. response graph? No check box on the on-line registration form as Senn customer service indicated.


----------



## Eee Pee

rossliew said:


> How is the sound thru the Mjolnir?


 
  
  


oldskool said:


> I would like to know this also.


 
  
 Great!  Good enough answer?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It's as if the Mjolnir has very little or almost no sound of its own.  It's powerful, it's free from anything that bugs me and seems to have a nice grip on the drivers making the bass just that little bit better.  It's as close to nothing as I've ever heard in my headphoning years, except for maybe one or two other solid state amps that was a Beta22 or GS MkI or something of that level.  
  
 Edit:  The headphones sound like they're known to sound if you're bugged by brighter headphones.
  
 Sidenote: my 800s have Creatology foam in them, like an early version of the Anax mod.  The ring and the trapezoid.  Nothing over the metal mesh.  I tried the shelf liner and took it back out.  I'm 38 and can't hear over 14k and like it a bit on the loud side, like party mode sometimes.
  
 I really enjoy the Mjolnir with the 600s also.  That's like the daily driver set up, and the 800s are for a night out on the town.  650s for Sunday morning after the night out.


----------



## Eee Pee

That was post 9999.  I'm sniping post 10,000.  
  
 Cheers fellow 800 bros!


----------



## palmfish

Well played Eee Pee.
  
 Thanks for saving me the palindrome...


----------



## Rossliew

twoears said:


> Try the HD650, Fidelio X1, Hifiman HE-500 or Audeze LCD-2/3.
> 
> Those are my personal favorites for a more forgiving sound.
> 
> If you want to give the HD800 one last chance try a pure copper cable (doesn't need to be fancy), and some mild EQ'ing of the 6kHz band, does wonders for taming the HD800 in my opinion. See my sig for an EQ setup to try if you're interested.




Thanks for the tip but I've put these up for sale. So, back in the box they have gone


----------



## Rossliew

eee pee said:


> Great!  Good enough answer?
> 
> It's as if the Mjolnir has very little or almost no sound of its own.  It's powerful, it's free from anything that bugs me and seems to have a nice grip on the drivers making the bass just that little bit better.  It's as close to nothing as I've ever heard in my headphoning years, except for maybe one or two other solid state amps that was a Beta22 or GS MkI or something of that level.
> 
> ...




Hmm...might consider the MJ for my 600..but I need a balanced cable first LOL


----------



## koiloco

rossliew said:


> Thanks for the tip but I've put these up for sale. So, back in the box they have gone


 
 That's such a brief time with the HD800 .  Not the HP for your preference?


----------



## Kendoji

I couldn't live with the HD 800s as my only pair of headphones either. I love having them around, and do admire them greatly, but as a listener of rock and metal I very often reach for the HE-500 instead.


----------



## LugBug1

rossliew said:


> Thanks for the tip but I've put these up for sale. So, back in the box they have gone


 
 Hey they are not for everyone. If there is one hp that I'd really like to own also (money permitting), it would be the LCD3. Good luck!


----------



## Rossliew

koiloco said:


> That's such a brief time with the HD800 .  Not the HP for your preference?




Unfortunately not. They are nice to look at, pretty comfy but difficult to amp match, sorta like a HE6. With limited budget, I can't afford to roll amps and lose money in the process..


----------



## James-uk

I think as many of us hd800 owners should take part in this http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2014/04/internet-test-24-bit-vs-16-bit-audio.html?m=1
As possible. We all want the the same thing, the best sound quality possible. This is something we can all do to help build a better understanding of whether high res is worth it .


----------



## punit

rossliew said:


> Unfortunately not. They are nice to look at, pretty comfy but difficult to amp match, sorta like a HE6. With limited budget, I can't afford to roll amps and lose money in the process..


 
 I love my HD 800 but i had to go through 3 amps before I understood what they are really capable of. The other three amps were not bad (Meier Classic, Schiit Lyr & Woo WA 6, The WA6 was the best of the 3) but I always felt the HD 800's were not performing upto their potential. Its when I got the Btl HD Crack with good tubes that I finally had a WOW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 moment & I realised that these are keepers. The WA22 has taken them to a new level.


----------



## YoengJyh

i love my HD800 once i put it on my head. The precision, soundstage and separation of sound are far better compare to most of the headphones i tested before. 2ndly, the weight and its comfort... speechless, please allow me to say 'FXXXING GOOD'.
  
 the only problem i had when i listen to them initially was the sound feel a bit lifeless, thin and bright through my current dac and tube amp. i rectified this condition by improving the RCA cable to a cheap and affordable chord company crimson plus cable. The result is noticeable, the sound become thicker and warmer, most importantly tune down the peak in treble. Thus, i have continuously enjoying this HD800 up to date which is more than 1.5years.
  





 last but not least, forget the gears and enjoy your music.


----------



## nigeljames

I have heard this talk that metal is usually mastered poorly and the HD800's were consistently regarded as a no no with such music but I do not feel that is the case.
  
 A lot of the time it's the system chain and not the recording that is the issue.
 I have thousands of rock and metal CD's and can honestly say that only *one* CD that I have ever played through the HD800's has been un-listenable.
  
 Most just sound superb. The inherent qualities of the HD800's (speed, detail, clarity, dynamics and bass control) are all important attributes with metal music as they are with other genre's.
  
 You have to also consider in what way is the recording '*bad*'.  I have heard many recordings that have been overly warm, mushy, lacking hf's, bloated bass, poor dynamics and lacking clarity. I would *want* to use the HD800's with these recordings and they will sound far better than the 'forgiving' LCD2.2 I have when doing so.
  
 As for brightness, well I just don't hear it even though I use silver cables, neutral SS amp and Sabre32 DAC.
 There are many headphones that are brighter than the HD800's.
 I know from personal experience the K701 and most Grados are brighter and the Grados are supposed to be the general recommendation for rock/metal, so how does that work when many people consider the HD800's too bright yet brighter phones are recommended!
  
 I am also amazed people find then thin or boring/detached sounding even with tube amps. I don't hear that even when running through my PC.
  
 I have absolutely no issues using the HD800's with metal, in fact I think they are superb with metal. And as Frank I said if I want to hear everything on a recording it's the HD800's I turn to.


----------



## longbowbbs

nigeljames said:


> I have heard this talk that metal is usually mastered poorly and the HD800's were consistently regarded as a no no with such music but I do not feel that is the case.
> 
> A lot of the time it's the system chain and not the recording that is the issue.
> I have thousands of rock and metal CD's and can honestly say that only *one* CD that I have ever played through the HD800's has been un-listenable.
> ...


 
 +1 to that....My Cary makes the HD800's sing for metal....Plenty of bass and the open soundstage is like being at the concert.


----------



## Rossliew

nigeljames said:


> I have heard this talk that metal is usually mastered poorly and the HD800's were consistently regarded as a no no with such music but I do not feel that is the case.
> 
> A lot of the time it's the system chain and not the recording that is the issue.
> I have thousands of rock and metal CD's and can honestly say that only *one* CD that I have ever played through the HD800's has been un-listenable.
> ...




Hi Nigel, would you mind sharing your set up used to drive the HD800? I love the speed and soundstage but the bass seems pretty tame. I have a couple of Grados and yes they do sound bright yet the strong mid bass more than makes up for it. 

If i can be shown the right direction, then I hope to meet mu audio nirvana without over spending. Thanks in advance!


----------



## James-uk

Just listening to Glen Hansard, Rhythm and Repose. This album is beautifully recorded and sounds incredible on the 800s . Can't recommend it highly enough.


----------



## pearljam50000

Their holographic sound make them, in my opinion the best headphones on the planet.
I haven't heard the 009 so i could be wrong.


----------



## Eee Pee

nigeljames said:


> I know from personal experience the K701 and most *Grados are brighter and the Grados are supposed to be the general recommendation for rock/metal, so how does that work when many people consider the HD800's too bright* yet brighter phones are recommended!


 
  
 I've been biting my tongue on that one for a long time.  I just kept waiting to see someone else say it, and there it is, finally.
  
 I simply think people aren't hearing what they expected, the magical audio nirvanaland where everything is perfect and beautiful.  Instead they're hearing *all* the nastiness that makes metal what it is.


----------



## Rossliew

Ok, I found my semi audio nirvana with these cans and they come from a DIY Chinese made transformer coupled tube amp costing no more than $400. Sound is full bodied yet doesn't sacrifice the clarity and details. So called poor metal recordings sound good and tolerable. This could be it.


----------



## skeptic

rossliew said:


> Hmm...might consider the MJ for my 600..but I need a balanced cable first LOL




You could always just chop off the existing trs plug and solder on a neutrik xlr.


----------



## 62ohm

james-uk said:


> Just listening to Glen Hansard, Rhythm and Repose. This album is beautifully recorded and sounds incredible on the 800s . Can't recommend it highly enough.


 
  
 I have the 'Swell Season" and "Strict Joy" album from his duet with Marketa Irglova, I take it Rhythm and Repose is his solo ambul? Would you recommend it to me, or is it very different?


----------



## James-uk

62ohm said:


> I have the 'Swell Season" and "Strict Joy" album from his duet with Marketa Irglova, I take it Rhythm and Repose is his solo ambul? Would you recommend it to me, or is it very different?




I discovered him through swell season and I love that album. I prefer rhythm and repose though and would highly recommend it to you.


----------



## TwoEars

skeptic said:


> You could always just chop off the existing trs plug and solder on a neutrik xlr.


 
  
 Even better, cut the cable close to the plug and mount a male/female xlr and you'll have xlr + 6.3 plug adapter!


----------



## LugBug1

nigeljames said:


> I have heard this talk that metal is usually mastered poorly and the HD800's were consistently regarded as a no no with such music but I do not feel that is the case.


 
 I personally think that most of the people who talk about badly recorded Rock/Metal - aren't fans. Or only own a dodgy compilation of 'Rock Ballads' haha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 It's absurd to say that any genre of music is always badly produced. My beloved Black Crowes albums are all faultless for what they are intended to be, and so are QOTSA for a more modern example. Good bands know how to produce a good sound - no matter who is doing the actual mixing or mastering. For ***** sake how else would you want Led Zep???


----------



## MattTCG

Croweology is one of my favs.


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks LB...listening to the BC now.


----------



## LugBug1

'By your side' is my fave album, but they're all good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
 For me they are pure rock n' roll. And are the only band to good enough to challenge the Stones. 
  
 (great with the HD800 of course


----------



## YoengJyh

Ridiculous Price...


----------



## MattTCG

lugbug1 said:


> 'By your side' is my fave album, but they're all good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 My ex graduated high school with Chris Robinson.


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> My ex graduated high school with Chris Robinson.


 
 Thats cool bud!


----------



## TwoEars

yoengjyh said:


> Ridiculous Price...


 
  
 If you follow that link you get to a cable...
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/120749775119
  
 Don't fall for it.


----------



## Sonido

Just attended the Charlotte meet yesterday. Here's some brief impressions I had:

With HD800:
CMA800R ≈ GSX MK2

Mrspeakers setup up of aurlic Vega + cavalli liquid glass was something else. Far superior than gsx or Questyle. Far superior details and soundstaging. You could hear like a bungee level of detail pare off and become distinct. It was a very shocking moment for me to hear this much improvement from HD800. To me it made normal recordings sound binaural in the way the new details were imaged.

Oh yeah that setup was a large step up from SR-009 and BHSE to me. The 009 sounded closer to the HD800 with gsx than it from HD800 with cavalli liquid glass. 

Also not sure if it's the DAc amp combo, but I got to try my Questyle with the Vega dac and to me there was not as much a difference so I think it was the amp.


----------



## Rossliew

Looks like the Liquid Glass/HD800 is a good combo. Any idea which tubes were used?


----------



## Sonido

Some $40 ones. Didn't get the but he explained not many amps use the tubes so there all pretty cheap. It used the vertical tube ports.

Edit: CBS Hytron 12SN7GT


----------



## Canadian411

sonido said:


> Also not sure if it's the DAc amp combo, but I got to try my Questyle with the Vega dac and to me there was not as much a difference so I think it was the amp.


 
  
 I am bit confused your line here, so you are saying,
  
 Vega DAC -> Questyle -> HD800 is same as Vega DAC -> GS MKII -> HD800 ?
  
 but 
  
 Vega DAC -> Liquid Glass > Questyle/GS MKII ?


----------



## Sonido

canadian411 said:


> I am bit confused your line here, so you are saying,
> 
> Vega DAC -> Questyle -> HD800 is same as Vega DAC -> GS MKII -> HD800 ?
> 
> ...



I dont know the dac used with gsx but any dac with Questyle and gsx was relatively similar as in nothing jumped out at me. But the Vega and liquid glass did something else. I tried the Vega with my Questyle and it didn't have the same effect so I assume it's the amp.


----------



## Feynman

I bought the HD800 some time ago I run them through either Schiit Vali or Bottlehead Crack. However I am considering buying the Questyle CMA800R. For those who have heard either of these two and the CMA800R is there a big difference? It is quite a lot of money to invest in a amp so it better be good. 
  
 To me the HD800 sounds great out of the Vali and I'm very happy with my purchase, however I can't shake the feeling of "what if...."... I guess you know what I mean!


----------



## elvergun

feynman said:


> To me the HD800 sounds great out of the Vali and I'm very happy with my purchase, however I can't shake the feeling of "what if...."... I guess you know what I mean!


 
  
 Do you prefer the Vali to the Crack?


----------



## Feynman

elvergun said:


> Do you prefer the Vali to the Crack?


 
 As of now I don't know which of the two I prefer the most. The sound is a bit more forward with the Vali and more relaxed with the Crack. But in the end I guess my vote would go the the Crack...


----------



## Sonido

Now that I'm back home and not on the phone trying to make a coherent post, I can clarify some things. Given it was a meet environment, I only had about 10 minutes with most setups. The most important thing I tried to do was play my own music on the various setups to truly compare with something I'm very familiar with. Luckily, I got to this will most setups that has a USB DAC option.
  
 Here are some notable pairings for the context of this thread and I'll try to put in chronological order to show what I experience and my thought process throughout:
  
 Obviously started with my Questyle and my Emotiva DC-1 DAC.
  
 Went over to mrspeakers' table to try out my HD800 with his setup of Cavalli Liquid Glass and Auralic Vega. Mind blown. Completely different presentation from anything I've heard before, other than perhaps the K1000 later. Not only were the subtle details more audible, but the seemed to be given their own space in a new area of the soundstage I never knew existed. The best way I can describe it is that normal recordings sounded binaural. The subtle details seemed to have their own speakers to produce just those background sounds.
  
 After this, I went back to my gear to make sure I wasn't hearing things, and it was apparent there was something special about mrspeakers' setup.
  
 Not sure whether it was the DAC or amp, someone else offered to let me use try their $3000 DAC out (forgot name of DAC) with my Questyle. Honestly, at this point I was not focusing on the subtle differences like small details or tonality changes, but really looking to see if I could hear that binaural effect with anything else. With the $3000 DAC, it was not there with the Questyle.
  
 At this point I briefly tried the HD800 with the WA22. I don't know if it was my source or his chain, but there was some weird rattling the whole time and it took away from the experience. Oddly enough, I wasn't quite sure if I was getting a similar effect to the Liquid Glass because the rattling could have been creating that sense of extra sounds. Either way, even if it was the amp and not the rattling, the effect was nowhere as profound as the Liquid Glass.
  
 Next I went over the HeadAmp's table where they had the GSX mk2 and the Stax SR-009 with BHSE. When I listened to the HD800 through the GSX, I found it strikingly similar to my Questyle. Now I didn't spend the time to compare the small differences in detail; I only cared if it could have the details jump out at me in a holographic fashion the way the Liquid Glass did. It did not. I moved on to the SR-009. I did notice that immediately after listening to the HD800 + GSX, the SR-009 + BHSE seemed to have a more natural tonality and sounded softer. However, when listening for the effect the HD800 + Liquid Glass had on subtle details seemingly having their own channel, the SR-009 did not have that effect either.
  
 Before the end of the meet, I got the opportunity to use mrspeakers' Vega DAC with my Questyle. Unfortunately it did not have that binaural effect. Thus, I conclude something about that Liquid Glass amp is doing that.


----------



## elvergun

sonido said:


> Now that I'm back home and not on the phone trying to make a coherent post, I can clarify some things. Given it was a meet environment, I only had about 10 minutes with most setups. The most important thing I tried to do was play my own music on the various setups to truly compare with something I'm very familiar with. Luckily, I got to this will most setups that has a USB DAC option.
> 
> Here are some notable pairings for the context of this thread and I'll try to put in chronological order to show what I experience and my thought process throughout:
> 
> ...


 
  
 So...does this mean you are selling your Questyle and buying a Liquid Glass?


----------



## Sonido

elvergun said:


> So...does this mean you are selling your Questyle and buying a Liquid Glass?


 

 Probably not in that order. I would like to have more time to compare the two in depth, rather than just fall for the wow factor in the initial impressions.


----------



## helljudgement

feynman said:


> To me the HD800 sounds great out of the Vali and I'm very happy with my purchase, however I can't shake the feeling of "what if...."... I guess you know what I mean!


 
  
 What if you change your dac? I believe amps are important part of the chain but if you're happy with what you've got I would suggest changing your source first.


----------



## Audio Jester

sonido said:


> Probably not in that order. I would like to have more time to compare the two in depth, rather than just fall for the wow factor in the initial impressions.



Have you tried many tube amps with the HD800? There seems to be a decent number of Head-Fiers that prefer tubes with the HD800. It does seem that the Liquid Glass is known for being very reactive to the choice of tubes so maybe you stumbled upon a system that capitalises on the harmonics created by tubes? 

It is good to read that the tubes were so reasonably priced as it is often the more extreme "cryo-ed NOS" that give audiophilic satisfaction.


----------



## punit

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






sonido said:


> Went over to mrspeakers' table to try out my HD800 with his setup of Cavalli Liquid Glass and Auralic Vega. Mind blown. Completely different presentation from anything I've heard before, other than perhaps the K1000 later. Not only were the subtle details more audible, but the seemed to be given their own space in a new area of the soundstage I never knew existed. The best way I can describe it is that normal recordings sounded binaural. The subtle details seemed to have their own speakers to produce just those background sounds.
> After this, I went back to my gear to make sure I wasn't hearing things, and it was apparent there was something special about mrspeakers' setup.
> 
> Not sure whether it was the DAC or amp, someone else offered to let me use try their $3000 DAC out (forgot name of DAC) with my Questyle. Honestly, at this point I was not focusing on the subtle differences like small details or tonality changes, but really looking to see if I could hear that binaural effect with anything else. With the $3000 DAC, it was not there with the Questyle.
> ...


 
  





> Did you hear or have ever heard the HD 800 on the Stratus or ECBA ? Just curious how these compare to the Cavalli.


----------



## kugino

having my first listen with the HD800. currently running out of yulong A28 single-ended with a ifi nano iDSD as a source. yes, not ideal. but waiting on more equipment arriving in the next few months.
  
 first impressions? good and bad. great detail, terrific soundstage, and actually really good bass. all the things most people say about it. bad? very bright. very sibilant. some tracks i have are simply unlistenable because of the sibilance and piercing highs. even some of my DSD tracks are a bit harsh.
  
 coming up: building a balanced cable and hoping to try it out with some old ASL wave tube monoblocks. might tame the highs a bit and mellow out the sound. cable's done, just waiting for the HD800 connectors.
  
 down the road: geek pulse x and ifi micro iDSD as sources. strongly leaning toward auralic taurus mk.ii for amp. waiting to see how the schiit ragnarok turns out before making this decision. i know people are saying TUBES TUBES...but i'm set on SS these days.
  
 great first listen...have an HE-500 coming later this week...and finishing up a grado woody project. fun times ahead.


----------



## HPiper

sonido said:


> Now that I'm back home and not on the phone trying to make a coherent post, I can clarify some things. Given it was a meet environment, I only had about 10 minutes with most setups. The most important thing I tried to do was play my own music on the various setups to truly compare with something I'm very familiar with. Luckily, I got to this will most setups that has a USB DAC option.
> 
> Here are some notable pairings for the context of this thread and I'll try to put in chronological order to show what I experience and my thought process throughout:
> 
> ...


 

 I got to hear the Liquid Glass at a meet with both some LCD2's and some HD800 and it was pretty much as you described it. There is no way in the world I could see paying $4000 for a headphone amp but if you were going to do it, I don't think you are going to do much better than that amp, even at double the price. It is something I would hope most people could hear as it is special. The I will never forget the way the Audeze sounded on that setup, it was other-worldly, or close to it.


----------



## Blasyrkh

sonido said:


> Before the end of the meet, I got the opportunity to use mrspeakers' Vega DAC with my Questyle. Unfortunately it did not have that binaural effect. Thus, I conclude something about that Liquid Glass amp is doing that.


 
  
 which tube did it have,6sn7?
 maybe it's due to the tube types?
 I have the yaoin 300b with 6sn7 and the soundstage is awesome


----------



## Sonido

I posted on the last page the tubes were CBS Hytron 12SN7GT. Saying it had a large soundstage is an understatement. It wasn't a mere 20-30% increase in soundstage. It was closer to a 200-300% difference. Like I said, it made your normal recordings sound binaural.


----------



## soundeffect

Anyone have opinion on the DNA sonnet 2 compared to others around its price range like the bha-1, wa2/wa6se, super 7, taboo mkiii?

Not too much info on the sonnet 2, or I'm just looking at all the wrong places.


----------



## jrprana

soundeffect said:


> Anyone have opinion on the DNA sonnet 2 compared to others around its price range like the bha-1, wa2/wa6se, super 7, taboo mkiii?
> 
> Not too much info on the sonnet 2, or I'm just looking at all the wrong places.




+1 on question on how good Sonett2 is with HD800.


----------



## Eee Pee

soundeffect said:


> Not too much info on the sonnet 2, or I'm just looking at all the wrong places.


 
  
 As an owner of the first Sonett I think the 800 and it pair well.  Not ultimate, but good sound.  It's kind of taken a back seat to the Mjolnir for now, but it has its special occasion nights.  And it makes me smile.  And it's said the Sonett 2 is a bit better, so... but yeah, the Sonett 2 thread is just about all there is to read about it.  Maybe some meet reports where Donald North sets up a table, like in San Francisco or somewhere over there.


----------



## soundeffect

Ic. I am hoping it'll be as good as the wa2. I'm leaning to not get the wa2 as I don't really want to get something too lush. Of course my budget might push me torward that way.


----------



## Eee Pee

Sonett is not lush at all.  Based on the 6H30 tube you can expect linearity.


----------



## soundeffect

Yeah that's why I'm inquiring about it, but if it performance is no better than the $750 mojnir when it cost $1300-1400 then the wa2 sounds really attractive. I'll try to ask on the main DNA thread maybe I'll get some more people who have heard them. Supposedly the first sonnet Donald didn't use the hd800 to test where the sonnet 2 he did. I'm looking for alternate to the wa2. I might end up with the wa2 or wait for a use higher cost amp that is somewhat closer pricing. The zana duex se is what I really want, but my wallet is to scared of being too thin.


----------



## JeffA

I have the Sonett 2. It replaced the Mjolnir and the Headamp GS-1 in my system. It is definitely a step up in performance from those two amps. If you are looking for a lush sound (and reportedly the Woo amps are lush), the Sonett will not satisfy. It is transparent, fast, dynamic. I would not call it a good tube amplifier. I would call it a good amplifier, period. It plays to the HD-800 strengths; it does not mask the HD-800s weaknesses (if you think its treble is a weakness). Build quality is also excellent. I have used only the stock tubes. I highly recommend it.


----------



## Mortalcoil

amham said:


> I've just received my new HD 800's ser.no. 28xxxx. Yes, they are are "bright" compared to Senn 650's or Audeze (owned LCD2/3 and sold them for the terrific LCD-X which is a keeper). however this can easily be rectified with a little judicious EQ in JRiver 19. The holographic nature of the sound is an easy trade off for their bright tendency. Mine seem to have a good native bass response enhanced by a EQ rise of +3 at 60Hz, +2.3 at 170Hz, +1.5 at 310Hz, -1.2db at 6khz and flat thereafter. Amp is Woo WA22 (assorted tubes) with Benchmark DAC2 HGC. So, yes I've spent a "bit" (that is why I've worked hard my entire life) but to my ears worth even penny in enjoyment. BTW, how do you get that freq. response graph? No check box on the on-line registration form as Senn customer service indicated.


 

 If your still interested in getting that graph  follow this link, fill out appropriate info and scroll down to request frequency chart ( tick the box )   http://en-de.sennheiser.com/service-support-services-register-your-product
  
 Give it a few days to be emailed to you.


----------



## soundeffect

jeffa said:


> I have the Sonett 2. It replaced the Mjolnir and the Headamp GS-1 in my system. It is definitely a step up in performance from those two amps. If you are looking for a lush sound (and reportedly the Woo amps are lush), the Sonett will not satisfy. It is transparent, fast, dynamic. I would not call it a good tube amplifier. I would call it a good amplifier, period. It plays to the HD-800 strengths; it does not mask the HD-800s weaknesses (if you think its treble is a weakness). Build quality is also excellent. I have used only the stock tubes. I highly recommend it.


 

 Thanks Jeff, This is the kind of confirmation I needed. I will most likely go for the Sonett 2, first I'm still waiting for my HD800 to ship. Everything you said sounds like what I am looking for. I'm definitely not looking for something lush and I don't have the need for the top of the crop (at least not yet), I just need something that works well with it and let me know what the HD800 can do.  Also, the fact that you are using the stock tube is a plus as I hate shopping for tubes. Did you get the upgraded TKD volume potentiometer? Do you think it's worth it vs. the Alph Potentimoeter?
  
 I can't wait.


----------



## dBel84

sonido said:


> Unfortunately it did not have that binaural effect. Thus, I conclude something about that Liquid Glass amp is doing that.


 

 I know I am a little biased here as the LG is my "love child" - but I can honestly say that the HD800 were dead to me until I heard them on a suped up Balancing Act but they totally wowed me when I plugged them into my LG. There are very few headphones which don't sound great on it, this affords me endless hours of enjoyment. Hope you get another chance to hear it..dB


----------



## SoupRKnowva

The 009s and HV are finally back in the house! so this comparison can begin. Should be fun


----------



## Sorrodje

soundeffect said:


> Thanks Jeff, This is the kind of confirmation I needed. I will most likely go for the Sonett 2, first I'm still waiting for my HD800 to ship. Everything you said sounds like what I am looking for. I'm definitely not looking for something lush and I don't have the need for the top of the crop (at least not yet), I just need something that works well with it and let me know what the HD800 can do.  Also, the fact that you are using the stock tube is a plus as I hate shopping for tubes. Did you get the upgraded TKD volume potentiometer? Do you think it's worth it vs. the Alph Potentimoeter?
> 
> I can't wait.


 
  
 My Sonett2 is ordered but not received yet. It shoud leave the US very soon now. Donald adviced me to take the TKD as a better and cheaper upgrade than NOS 6H30p. The only NOS tube I purchased is a Mullard GZ34 .  Wait is looooooooong


----------



## ezone2kil

Received my FR cert today.
 What do you guys think?
 It sounds pretty bassy to me when everyone said they have weak bass..
 http://i.cubeupload.com/BOHKrm.png


----------



## jrprana

sorrodje said:


> My Sonett2 is ordered but not received yet. It shoud leave the US very soon now.




I'll be interested to read your review.


----------



## jrprana

Anybody compared Sonett 2 to EC Super 7 with HD800?
I tried to search the forum, but it seems that every discussion quickly turned into BA, Zana Deux and Stratus comparison.


----------



## Sorrodje

jrprana said:


> Anybody compared Sonett 2 to EC Super 7 with HD800?
> I tried to search the forum, but it seems that every discussion quickly turned into BA, Zana Deux and Stratus comparison.


 
  
  
 in a perfect world, i would be able to give you my point of vue next monday after a promising two days meeting here in France but unfortunately, we live in the real world : My Sonnet 2 is not ready and a friend's EC S7 needs to go to be repaired.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .  I'll have to wait a few more month before having the two amp together on the same table.


----------



## Blasyrkh

sonido said:


> I posted on the last page the tubes were CBS Hytron 12SN7GT. Saying it had a large soundstage is an understatement. It wasn't a mere 20-30% increase in soundstage. It was closer to a 200-300% difference. Like I said, it made your normal recordings sound binaural.


 
  
 I bet that it extends in height too, am i right?


----------



## soundeffect

Nice! More people with the sonett 2, tdk it is. How long you have to wait for the completion of sonett 2?


----------



## Jarmel

Are there any serious competitors for the HD800 recently?  I've been out of the 'game' for awhile and I'm curious if there's anything better out.  Same goes for my amplifier:EC Balancing Act.


----------



## Sorrodje

soundeffect said:


> Nice! More people with the sonett 2, tdk it is. How long you have to wait for the completion of sonett 2?


 
  
 I've ordered mine and paid the Deposit 6 weeks ago. I think you can reasonnably expect to get your Sonnett at your home 2 month after ordering.


----------



## jibzilla

jarmel said:


> Are there any serious competitors for the HD800 recently?  I've been out of the 'game' for awhile and I'm curious if there's anything better out.  Same goes for my amplifier:EC Balancing Act.


----------



## En_R

jarmel said:


> Are there any serious competitors for the HD800 recently?  I've been out of the 'game' for awhile and I'm curious if there's anything better out.  Same goes for my amplifier:EC Balancing Act.


 
  
 Nope, not really. Unless you are looking for a different flavor (stax, orthos).
  
 For dynamics you could give the new AKG K812 a shot. It retains alot of the things that make HD800 enjoyable (soundstage, speed, bass impact, good detail extraction) while having a much richer, fuller midrange, albeit more colored. This makes the K812 a very attractive alternative for those who prefer vocals or small ensemble jazz/strings. Another important thing to note is that the K812 is much easier to "get right" in terms of amp and source while the 800 is much more demanding (both sound great on the BA with 300b's).

 The downside is the K812 loses spectacularly in terms of transparency and raw details, and the amount of sub-bass might be a bit much for people who are used to the HD800. It also does not scale as high as the 800.
  
 EC also has a new amp out, the 4*2a3. I'd find a chance to audition one as it is said to be a significant step up in some areas compared to the BA (w/ the 800s). The BA also has new transformers, and rumor is the the 4*2a3 will be getting new ones as well.


----------



## Sonido

blasyrkh said:


> I bet that it extends in height too, am i right?



To be honest I was just thrown off by the way the sound peeled off into a new dimension in depth. I can't say I got to analyze much of anything else. I was just that shocked and awed. But next time I get an opportunity to hear it I'll definitely take a more holistic approach to it.


----------



## jchandler3

I hate to be "that guy" but I need to just toss a question out there:
  
 My end-goal is to step from the HD650 to the HD800. I'm really interested in getting either the Schiit Asgard 2 or Lyr. (A) I like the company and have had good experiences with them, (B) they're a great bang for the buck and (C) I need a preamp built-in. Between the A2 and Lyr, which would be best suited to drive the HD800? I'll be sourcing with the ÜberFrost.
  
 Thanks for the help!


----------



## radiojam

jchandler3 said:


> I hate to be "that guy" but I need to just toss a question out there:
> 
> My end-goal is to step from the HD650 to the HD800. I'm really interested in getting either the Schiit Asgard 2 or Lyr. (A) I like the company and have had good experiences with them, (B) they're a great bang for the buck and (C) I need a preamp built-in. Between the A2 and Lyr, which would be best suited to drive the HD800? I'll be sourcing with the ÜberFrost.
> 
> Thanks for the help!




Why not consider the Valhalla? It is an OTL, all tube which is a good match for higher impedance phones.


----------



## jchandler3

radiojam said:


> Why not consider the Valhalla? It is an OTL, all tube which is a good match for higher impedance phones.


 
  
 Ideally I'd like a preamp, which the Valhalla lacks.


----------



## MickeyVee

With the right tubes, the Lyr can be nice with the HD800. I used the Amperex Orange Globes with I had the Lyr/Uberfrost. From what I've read, the A2 may be on the bright side for the HD800.
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jchandler3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Between the A2 and Lyr, which would be best suited to drive the HD800? I'll be sourcing with the ÜberFrost.


----------



## TwoEars

jibzilla said:


> I found the audeze lcd-x to be a little more preferable to the hd800, very close though. I run my X on the apex peak/volcano. The apex pinnacle, allnic, cavalli and crayon amps are more expensive than the BA but I have no idea whether they synergize with the hd800.
> 
> If it were me personally I would look into purchasing the lcd-XC for a closed/planar compliment to the hd800's and call it a day.


 
  
 Don't forget the Hifiman HE-560, I expect great things from that one.
  
 I've personally found the LCD-2/3 too heavy and uncomfortable, and the soundstage too cramped. I've heard that the LCD-X improves on the soundstage but it's still really heavy, I would like to hear it though before I completely make up my mind.
  
 But my gut tells me that I shouldn't be surprised if 6 months from now the HE-560 is the default recommendation in the sub $1000 category.


----------



## LugBug1

souprknowva said:


> The 009s and HV are finally back in the house! so this comparison can begin. Should be fun


 
 Now thats what I call a bedside rig! Not even room for a glass of water! (though I wouldn't perch my HD800's on the table corner like that. You're clearly a risk taker..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) 
  
 Look forward to you impressions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## pearljam50000

Can anyone compare HD800 to Sony R10?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

lugbug1 said:


> Now thats what I call a bedside rig! Not even room for a glass of water! (though I wouldn't perch my HD800's on the table corner like that. You're clearly a risk taker.. )
> 
> Look forward to you impressions  .




Haha yeah, since I moved to Korea, I'm once again stuck in a single room living situation, so the bed side rig is my only rig. I only put the 800s there so they'd be in the picture too


----------



## 62ohm

I have just installed Battlefield 4 on my PC (I am so late I feel like a dinosaur lol), and I could not believe by how clear I can hear the footsteps and how mesmerizing the sound of the explosions are.. It feels like the "Super Stereo Effect" does not apply to the HD800. When I tried the LCD-2.2, one thing that bothers me the most was the absence of the feeling that sound coming towards you and hits you on your face like a hi-fi speaker setup. Super Stereo Effect example at its best.


----------



## jackskelly

pearljam50000 said:


> Can anyone compare HD800 to Sony R10?


 
  
 There are few members, such as purk, who have owned or do own both headphones. I believe he particularly loves the R-10s more than the HD 800s. Both are absolutely fabulous headphones.


----------



## TwoEars

Just look here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13
  
 While a lot of what you *like* in the +$500 category is down to personal preference I still think that this list is excellent and objective in laying out the differences between headphones.


----------



## 62ohm

twoears said:


> Just look here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13
> 
> While a lot of what you *like* in the +$500 category is down to personal preference I still think that this list is excellent and objective in laying out the differences between headphones.


 
  
 A funny story from my own personal experience, when I was looking for an upgrade, I went to a local audio shop and auditioned HD800, K812, T1 and LCD-2.2 and went for the HD800 in the end *without looking at that thread or reading any comparison.* I was not even aware of that thread's existence weeks after my purchase. 
  
 I did not even plan on getting a TOTL cans when going to the shop, the original plan was to get something to complement the Q701. When I get there with my father, who is also an audiophile, he tried the TOTLs and told me the DT880 (which was what I planned on getting) sounds rubbish in comparison and told me to get a TOTL instead. So in the end I just put the trust on my own ears and decided that I liked the HD800 the most.
  
 It was a big surprise to see that battle of the flagships thread and seeing the HD800 ranks above the LCD-2.2 and way above the T1.


----------



## kugino

62ohm said:


> It was a big surprise to see that battle of the flagships thread and seeing the HD800 ranks above the LCD-2.2 and way above the T1.


 
 to be fair, it is one person's judgment/ranking.
  
 but yes, the hd800 are pretty sick...i just got a pair of he-500 and am somewhat underwhelmed by them. i'm building a balanced cable in hopes that they'll be better balanced, but...but the hd800 kind of do that to other headphones.


----------



## kamalz

jchandler3 said:


> I hate to be "that guy" but I need to just toss a question out there:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Do audition crack /speedball .
It is a no brainer that the HD800-Crack/speedball combo is worth the investment
IMO , you cannot go wrong .


----------



## Canadian411

62ohm said:


> A funny story from my own personal experience, when I was looking for an upgrade, I went to a local audio shop and auditioned HD800, K812, T1 and LCD-2.2 and went for the HD800 in the end *without looking at that thread or reading any comparison.* I was not even aware of that thread's existence weeks after my purchase.
> 
> I did not even plan on getting a TOTL cans when going to the shop, the original plan was to get something to complement the Q701. When I get there with my father, who is also an audiophile, he tried the TOTLs and told me the DT880 (which was what I planned on getting) sounds rubbish in comparison and told me to get a TOTL instead. So in the end I just put the trust on my own ears and decided that I liked the HD800 the most.
> 
> It was a big surprise to see that battle of the flagships thread and seeing the HD800 ranks above the LCD-2.2 and way above the T1.




I owned all except k812 which is hard to upgrade to new cable since one wire to headphone jack.

I believe HD800 is superior than others you listed here + lcd3.

Problem with audeze headphones are they suffer from cramped sound stage,and too heavy and uncomfortable.

You've made the right choice  
Now get TH900 to complement hd800? Lol.


----------



## punit

> Do audition crack /speedball .
> It is a no brainer that the HD800-Crack/speedball combo is worth the investment
> IMO , you cannot go wrong .


 
 One of the Best value - performance ratio amp for HD 800.


----------



## punit

kugino said:


> but yes, the hd800 are pretty sick...i just got a pair of he-500 and am somewhat underwhelmed by them. i'm building a balanced cable in hopes that they'll be better balanced, but...but the hd800 kind of do that to other headphones.


 
 Yes , that has been my experience too for all other HP's that I have bought except one - TH 900.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yep, best combo right now.


----------



## 62ohm

canadian411 said:


> I owned all except k812 which is hard to upgrade to new cable since one wire to headphone jack.
> 
> I believe HD800 is superior than others you listed here + lcd3.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm currently considering the T1/LCD-2.2 to complement the HD800. Can't be bothered to amp the HE-6. I've never heard the TH900, but the general consensus seem to suggest that it's a pretty bass heavy headphone, if I get it correctly. I don't really like tons of bass...


----------



## Canadian411

62ohm said:


> I'm currently considering the T1/LCD-2.2 to complement the HD800. Can't be bothered to amp the HE-6. I've never heard the TH900, but the general consensus seem to suggest that it's a pretty bass heavy headphone, if I get it correctly. I don't really like tons of bass...


 
  
 Yape TH900 is mad with the bass, (more than LCD2.2 IMO), sometimes too much for me, but it doesn't hurt to have few options 
 I might consider T5p or UE8, or maybe Oppo to drop price around $500 ish.


----------



## Rossliew

The Little Dot Mk 3 OTL is pretty good with the HD800 as well. And do check out the Little Dot tube rollers thread - this amp is plenty versatile and enjoyable for tube rollers and it's relatively cheap as well.
  
 I tried a brand new TH900 and it sounded "V" shaped to me - boomy bass and sharp highs. Perhaps it's not burnt in yet and it doesn't isolate that well either.


----------



## Problem

rossliew said:


> The Little Dot Mk 3 OTL is pretty good with the HD800 as well. And do check out the Little Dot tube rollers thread - this amp is plenty versatile and enjoyable for tube rollers and it's relatively cheap as well.
> 
> I tried a brand new TH900 and it sounded "V" shaped to me - boomy bass and sharp highs. Perhaps it's not burnt in yet and it doesn't isolate that well either.


 
 Your observation is similar to mine except I found the mids quite recessed


----------



## Rossliew

problem said:


> Your observation is similar to mine except I found the mids quite recessed


 
 Hmm..on hindsight, yes i agree with you although the vocals seem pretty forward sounding. Think the HD800 sounds better


----------



## MickeyVee

My HD800 have developed an annyoing squeak when I move around.  Coming from the earpads.  Has anyone else experienced this?


----------



## Maxvla

Try reseating the pads?


----------



## LugBug1

mickeyvee said:


> My HD800 have developed an annyoing squeak when I move around.  Coming from the earpads.  Has anyone else experienced this?


 
 Are you sure it's the headphones? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
  
 Could it not be from the little hinges that attach the headband to the cups? I would add a little WD40 or similar if it is that.


----------



## MickeyVee

I may be in my 50's but my head isn't squeaking yet.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Yeah, think the pads may be loose so will re-seat them.
  
 Quote:


maxvla said:


> Try reseating the pads?


 
  
  


lugbug1 said:


> Are you sure it's the headphones?


----------



## soundeffect

Would a bifrost uber be bottlenecking an amp like sonett 2 or wa2 and the likes?


----------



## Radio_head

souprknowva said:


> The 009s and HV are finally back in the house! so this comparison can begin. Should be fun


 
 That is a comparison I would love to make.  Had BA/HD800 and 009/KGSSHV at the same time but never S7.  Happy listening!


----------



## elvergun

kugino said:


> down the road: geek pulse x and ifi micro iDSD as sources. strongly leaning toward auralic taurus mk.ii for amp. waiting to see how the schiit ragnarok turns out before making this decision. i know people are saying TUBES TUBES...but i'm set on SS these days.


 
  
 I'm also thinking about the Taurus...but I'm waiting to see if the Oppo HA-1 amp section is good enough to power the HD800.


----------



## jibzilla

twoears said:


> Don't forget the Hifiman HE-560, I expect great things from that one.
> 
> I've personally found the LCD-2/3 too heavy and uncomfortable, and the soundstage too cramped. I've heard that the LCD-X improves on the soundstage but it's still really heavy, I would like to hear it though before I completely make up my mind.
> 
> But my gut tells me that I shouldn't be surprised if 6 months from now the HE-560 is the default recommendation in the sub $1000 category.


----------



## Drsparis

Although this may seem like in the wrong thread, I figure more people here have tried lesser HP's than other have tried the HD800's.
  
 Head-fi has turned me into a crazed headphone/music lover and as much as I love it I have spent much more than I should have... I know I know, warnings were there (forum slogan ). Anyways, I think I have to let go of my hd800's (new version 25***). Any suggestions for a good mid-fi headphone that could fill (obviously not completely) the void where this sound stage/detail monster once lived?
  
 It would need to be comfortable and lightish as it would be my casual computer listening set. Probably matched up with my E-MU 0404 which is a very competent DAC/AMP (would consider purchasing another AMP to go with a cDAC that I also have but the point is to save money lol). I listen to a lot of classic rock/rock/prog rock/jazz. Although that is not technically a strength of the HD800's, with my BHA-1, it could handle anything!
  
 Right now I am looking at a pair of HD600's, or HD650's. Anything else I should be looking at?


----------



## LugBug1

drsparis said:


> Although this may seem like in the wrong thread, I figure more people here have tried lesser HP's than other have tried the HD800's.
> 
> Head-fi has turned me into a crazed headphone/music lover and as much as I love it I have spent much more than I should have... I know I know, warnings were there (forum slogan ). Anyways, I think I have to let go of my hd800's (new version 25***). Any suggestions for a good mid-fi headphone that could fill (obviously not completely) the void where this sound stage/detail monster once lived?
> 
> ...


 
 I will always recommend the HD600's as second best if you like the Sennheiser sound. The 600's sound great with both rock and jazz. The only time some feel they are lacking is when you want fully extended sub bass. But this is mainly for electronic fans. Otherwise they are still a wonderful and versatile headphone. 
  
 I prefer them over the HE500, LCD2, HD650. to name a few big names.


----------



## Drsparis

lugbug1 said:


> I will always recommend the HD600's as second best if you like the Sennheiser sound. The 600's sound great with both rock and jazz. The only time some feel they are lacking is when you want fully extended sub bass. But this is mainly for electronic fans. Otherwise they are still a wonderful and versatile headphone.
> 
> I prefer them over the HE500, LCD2, HD650. to name a few big names.


 
 Thanks for the quick reply. From what I have read the 600's are a bit faster and less bloated in the bass than the 650's so I'm assuming I would like them better... even If I also hear that they aren't as different than people make them out to be...


----------



## LugBug1

drsparis said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. From what I have read the 600's are a bit faster and less bloated in the bass than the 650's so I'm assuming I would like them better... even If I also hear that they aren't as different than people make them out to be...


 
 Well thats it, they are more similar than different. But also some like a bit bloat! The mids bass hump of the 650's is very nice, but imo not natural. The 600's defo do electric guitar better as they also have a more natural and detailed treble. The 650's roll off at the top more, smoothing a little too much in comparison.
  
 This is obviously just my opinion but I lived with the 650's for years (6 to be exact) and loved them. But once you get used to better transparency and balance its hard to keep appreciating them as much. Both are great headphones but the HD600 are for me - the audiophiles choice, over the more fun and relaxing 650's.


----------



## Nimzerz

Q701. Nuff said.


----------



## MickeyVee

HD600 is a definitely a good choice.  If you get a chance, try the Grado RS1i. I can easily switch between the two and if casually listening and working on the computer, I sometimes have to check whether I have the RS1i or HD800 on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Quote:


drsparis said:


>


----------



## elvergun

nimzerz said:


> Q701. Nuff said.


 
  
  
 Actually, the K712.  Nuff said now.


----------



## Drsparis

I was under the impression that they were essentially the same can, just a different pad/headband. Have you tried both? Differences...?


elvergun said:


> Actually, the K712.  Nuff said now.


----------



## LugBug1

drsparis said:


> I was under the impression that they were essentially the same can, just a different pad/headband. Have you tried both? Differences...?


 
 There is loads (infact endless!) of info on this on the relevant AKG threads my friend


----------



## Drsparis

lugbug1 said:


> There is loads (infact endless!) of info on this on the relevant AKG threads my friend


 
 The various models with similar names confuse me, so does contradicting information lol. I'll have to do a bit more in depth research, but if you have any first hand experience....


----------



## LugBug1

drsparis said:


> The various models with similar names confuse me, so does contradicting information lol. I'll have to do a bit more in depth research, but if you have any first hand experience....


 
 Just got to be careful about derailing threads as the mods and regulars don't like it bud  Comparisons with the HD800 or at least Sennheiser flagship past and present is cool, but the differences of AKG models will be frowned upon. I don't want to sound like an *******, I'm just given you the heads up my friend.
  
 The K701/2 etc are similar to the HD800 only in soundstage size. But as far as tonality goes they are very different. The AKG's are much drier and distant. They also have quite and aggressive peak in the upper mids. I've always had to EQ them in this area. After that though they are great cans and defo an option for you imo


----------



## TwoEars

lugbug1 said:


> I will always recommend the HD600's as second best if you like the Sennheiser sound. The 600's sound great with both rock and jazz. The only time some feel they are lacking is when you want fully extended sub bass. But this is mainly for electronic fans. Otherwise they are still a wonderful and versatile headphone.
> 
> I prefer them over the HE500, LCD2, HD650. to name a few big names.


 
  
 Yes, they are very, very good and often overlooked these days. In some ways the HD600 is still the best "reference headphone" that Sennheiser has made. My HD800's are very, very good and I like them a lot, but sometimes it's a bit like having the image contrast turned up to 11, if any of you are photographers you'll know what I mean. Sometimes it's great but other times it's just not what you're looking for.
  
 And in that respect it can be argued that the HD600 still is the most "neutral" pair of headphones that Senneheiser has ever made. My 2 cents and YMMV.


----------



## Eee Pee

twoears said:


> HD800's are very, very good and I like them a lot, but sometimes it's a bit like having the image contrast turned up to 11


 
  
 I used that almost exact sentence to somebody at the last meet.  And, sometimes I wish I had a dimmer switch for them.
  
 Sent from the 600s on my head on while the 800s are on the floor waiting their turn.


----------



## Drsparis

Lol yes I did steer this completely off topic, sorry hehe. Thanks for the info :-D and thanks to all the other suggestions too, kind of confirmed what I was thinking. 


lugbug1 said:


> Just got to be careful about derailing threads as the mods and regulars don't like it bud  Comparisons with the HD800 or at least Sennheiser flagship past and present is cool, but the differences of AKG models will be frowned upon. I don't want to sound like an *******, I'm just given you the heads up my friend.
> 
> The K701/2 etc are similar to the HD800 only in soundstage size. But as far as tonality goes they are very different. The AKG's are much drier and distant. They also have quite and aggressive peak in the upper mids. I've always had to EQ them in this area. After that though they are great cans and defo an option for you imo


----------



## Maxvla

drsparis said:


> Although this may seem like in the wrong thread, I figure more people here have tried lesser HP's than other have tried the HD800's.
> 
> Head-fi has turned me into a crazed headphone/music lover and as much as I love it I have spent much more than I should have... I know I know, warnings were there (forum slogan ). Anyways, I think I have to let go of my hd800's (new version 25***). Any suggestions for a good mid-fi headphone that could fill (obviously not completely) the void where this sound stage/detail monster once lived?
> 
> ...



I own HD800s and HD600s. If you are trying to replicate the HD800 type sound inexpensively I would not go for 600s. I would grab a pair of AKG K550s. Despite being closed they have a large soundstage and are slightly treble tilted like 800s. They are not quite as comfortable, but they aren't bad at all. I enjoy rolling between the two.


----------



## Drsparis

maxvla said:


> I own HD800s and HD600s. If you are trying to replicate the HD800 type sound inexpensively I would not go for 600s. I would grab a pair of AKG K550s. Despite being closed they have a large soundstage and are slightly treble tilted like 800s. They are not quite as comfortable, but they aren't bad at all. I enjoy rolling between the two.




Thanks for the suggestion. I actually own the k550s and although I enjoy them a lot, I find, just like the hd598s, they are good at everything but excel at nothing. They lack... Everything and nothing? Sparkle maybe? A bit of clarity/imaging? Crop I've become a headphone prude  lol


----------



## kugino

drsparis said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I actually own the k550s and although I enjoy them a lot, I find, just like the hd598s, they are good at everything but excel at nothing. They lack... Everything and nothing? Sparkle maybe? A bit of clarity/imaging? Crop I've become a headphone prude  lol


 
 back in the day i used to have the k701/headamp gs-1 combo, which i thought was very good. i second the recommendation for the k701 if you're looking for detail and clarity.


----------



## roguegeek

So I haven't been around in a while and I wish I was posting more, but I'm just spending far too much time enjoying the piss out of my HD 800. Seriously, I'm enjoying them that much. Surprisingly, the Crack is my favorite pairing with it in terms of what's currently available to me. Pretty certain I'm grabbing an AURALiC TAURUS MKII soon and that might just be it for me for a while. My ears are just so happy.


----------



## MickeyVee

Well, after pushing the pads all the way in and fiddling around a bit, the creaks went away when I took my glasses off.  So, not the headphones and it was a good question after all.  Thanks LugBug!
  
 Quote:


lugbug1 said:


> Are you sure it's the headphones?


----------



## Sonido

roguegeek said:


> So I haven't been around in a while and I wish I was posting more, but I'm just spending far too much time enjoying the piss out of my HD 800. Seriously, I'm enjoying them that much. Surprisingly, the Crack is my favorite pairing with it in terms of what's currently available to me. Pretty certain I'm grabbing an AURALiC TAURUS MKII soon and that might just be it for me for a while. My ears are just so happy.


 

 Just don't go to a meet and hear it out of something like the Cavalli Liquid Glass and you'll be good. It's too late for me. Unfortunately I can't unhear it.


----------



## Sonido

drsparis said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I actually own the k550s and although I enjoy them a lot, I find, just like the hd598s, they are good at everything but excel at nothing. They lack... Everything and nothing? Sparkle maybe? A bit of clarity/imaging? Crop I've become a headphone prude  lol


 
  
 Well do you seriously expect something a fraction the price of a TOTL like the HD800 to excel at things? Even TOTL don't excel at everything and many only excel at one or two things.


----------



## MickeyVee

Cr@p.. about a month ago, there was a LG on CAM (Canuck Audio Mart) for $2K Canadian.  Should have jumped on it.  Oh well...
 Quote:


sonido said:


> Just don't go to a meet and hear it out of something like the Cavalli Liquid Glass and you'll be good. It's too late for me. Unfortunately I can't unhear it.


----------



## Maxvla

Thought I'd give a plug for Ted Allen @ FBI Cables (aka Headphone Lounge). Just had him make another HD800 cable for me, the first was a solid core silver balanced, this one is a OCC Litz unbalanced. Both cables are very well made, exactly as I specified, even down to covering the HD800 connectors and marking the inside lip to create a stealthy look to go with my black HD800s. Great person to work with and offers a small discount (10%) for repeat customers. A few pictures:

The old balanced:








The new unbalanced:


----------



## Drsparis

sonido said:


> Well do you seriously expect something a fraction the price of a TOTL like the HD800 to excel at things? Even TOTL don't excel at everything and many only excel at one or two things.



Lolol no, I'm not expecting hehe but wondering if there is a sweetspot of diminishing returns that would allow me not to cry at night because I don't have the hd800s anymore lol


----------



## Failed Engineer

The best mid-fi HD800 experience is the AT AD2000, and I don't think it's really even close.  Much better than the AKGs and also easier to find a suitable amp.


----------



## MickeyVee

If you sell the HD800, you certainly will cry. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nothing the I have heard comes close/surpasses other than Stax and maybe the AKG K812 but more bucks. IMHO.
 Quote:


drsparis said:


> Loyola no, I'm not expecting hehe but wondering if there is a sweetspot of diminishing returns that would allow me not to cry at night because I don't have the hd800s anymore lol


----------



## LugBug1

sonido said:


> Well do you seriously expect something a fraction the price of a TOTL like the HD800 to excel at things?


 
Yup really helpful


----------



## Zoom25

I've been contemplating whether just getting HD800s and calling it a day or going for SR-009 (still need to audition) in the long run. The only thing about SR-009 is the amp cost and wait times.
  
 The fact that I mostly listen to speakers doesn't intrigue the idea of trying out the new yearly headphone (Audeze, Hifiman) that's pretty good, but not quite up there. Just something that I can keep for years.
  
 Will most probably be auditioning the SR-009 with Stax SRM-007tII. Not sure if that will really be fair to gauge the SR-009 out of that amp. I'm really hoping I don't end up liking the SR-009 for my wallet's sake.


----------



## koiloco

^Tbh, HD800 with a good amp = sonic heaven.  Unless you're that comfortable throwing $10k on the table just like that.
 For me, even If I could afford it, I wouldn't be able to justify the decision.


----------



## Zoom25

koiloco said:


> ^Tbh, HD800 with a good amp = sonic heaven.  Unless you're that comfortable throwing $10k on the table just like that.
> For me, even If I could afford it, I wouldn't be able to justify the decision.


 
 LOL yeah of course. It's only during the spell when I'm on head-fi for over a week that these option start seeming reasonable. When I'm away from headphones, these thoughts start to seem quite ridiculous.
  
 I agree $10,000 does seem crazy. For me to really consider it, the sound would have to be perfect in every single aspect. One thing off, even minor, and it will be a no go. Not to mention that you can put $10,000 toward some really nice monitors.
  
 Either way won't be happening anytime soon.


----------



## koiloco

zoom25 said:


> LOL yeah of course. It's only during the spell when I'm on head-fi for over a week that these option start seeming reasonable. When I'm away from headphones, these thoughts start to seem quite ridiculous.
> 
> I agree $10,000 does seem crazy. For me to really consider it, the sound would have to be perfect in every single aspect. One thing off, even minor, and it will be a no go. *Not to mention that you can put $10,000 toward some really nice monitors.*
> 
> Either way won't be happening anytime soon.


 
 What you said right there.  I am just tryin to keep you grounded a bit.


----------



## Zoom25

koiloco said:


> What you said right there.  I am just tryin to keep you grounded a bit.


 
 Thanks bud.


----------



## koiloco

@Zoom25,
  
 You can't let this deal go by.  That's heck of a deal.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/715295/sennheiser-hd-800-original-owner


----------



## Zoom25

koiloco said:


> @Zoom25,
> 
> You can't let this deal go by.  That's heck of a deal.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the find. Yeah I totally would've gotten this right now. I was set on buying a HD800 while casually looking for a TV and went to a store one day only randomly only to get a killer deal on a 60" 3D Smart TV from people I've have been buying for years…so the HD800 got pushed back for awhile. I'm happy though in a way, as I get to hear the HE-560 once before that and get that bug out as well.


----------



## Amictus

To Drsparis >>>
  
 I was once trying to get student ensemble together to play a work by Dallapiccola, but lacked a harp. I asked a Dallapiccola friend/expert, who happened to be working in London at the time, what I could use instead (this being before the invention of electronic gizmos). He, in his delightfully Italian-accepted English, said "An 'arp!" He was right. You should replace your HD800 with an HD800.


----------



## rgs9200m

My SR009 with 007t/ii amp with RCA 6cg7 tubes is awesome to me, even the bass is very fine. A super-amp is nice, but not necessary by any means.
 HD800 actually seems to need more high-end-amp support to sound great (mine do), but still not in SR009 territory in terms of resolution, smoothness, and speed.


----------



## Maxvla

HD800 doesn't need the $upport SR-009s do though. Also, you have to deal with SR-009s collapsed soundstage and politeness.


----------



## Mortalcoil

zoom25 said:


> I've been contemplating whether just getting HD800s and calling it a day or going for SR-009 (still need to audition) in the long run. The only thing about SR-009 is the amp cost and wait times.
> 
> The fact that I mostly listen to speakers doesn't intrigue the idea of trying out the new yearly headphone (Audeze, Hifiman) that's pretty good, but not quite up there. Just something that I can keep for years.
> 
> Will most probably be auditioning the SR-009 with Stax SRM-007tII. Not sure if that will really be fair to gauge the SR-009 out of that amp. I'm really hoping I don't end up liking the SR-009 for my wallet's sake.


 

 Wasn't the 009 tuned for / with the SRM-007tA or the SRM-727A in mind?  A good start at least into the world of the 009.


----------



## Zoom25

maxvla said:


> HD800 doesn't need the $upport SR-009s do though. Also, you have to deal with SR-009s collapsed soundstage and *politeness*.


 
 I've been reading mixed thing about these. That's why I am going to try to make sure for myself. People used to say the same thing about HD800 in comparison to planars, but I definitely didn't find that.


----------



## Maxvla

Don't think I've ever heard HD800s referred to as polite. Quite the opposite, in fact.


----------



## Canadian411

Brand new?


----------



## preproman

zoom25 said:


> I've been reading mixed thing about these. That's why I am going to try to make sure for myself. People used to say the same thing about HD800 in comparison to planars, but I definitely didn't find that.


 
  
 Nothing polite about the HD800s, that's for sure..


----------



## icebear

zoom25 said:


> I've been reading mixed thing about these. That's why I am going to try to make sure for myself. People used to say the same thing about HD800 in comparison to planars, but I definitely didn't find that.


 

 Positively the HD800 has a better sound stage than the SR-009. I heard both at the NY Spring meet with Justin's set up, i.e. GSX-MkII and BHSE respectively. Yes, the SR-009 is a class above in terms of resolution and complete effortless of the presentation, the music is "just there" BUT the music is inside your head. There is no other headphone currently that has the ability to create a live like sound stage and allows pin point localization of voices and instruments like the HD800 does. Therefore I would prefer the HD800 every time besides the little monetary difference for a complete set up (hp & amp).
  
 But anyway enjoy you b.. a.. TV.
 My living room wouldn't be big enough for a proper viewing distance
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## icebear

preproman said:


> Nothing polite about the HD800s, that's for sure..


 

 +1,
 The HD800 is absolutely honest, not holding back politely.
 If the recording is crap it will tell you directly.


----------



## Rossliew

The HD800 made me love treble and its realism is second to none, imo. It is the treble that gives you the beautifully wide soundstage. One shouldnt stifle the treble, which would make it sound just like any other regular dynamic can.


----------



## TwoEars

I just demoed the Audeze LCD-X in a store today and in my humble opinon my rig with a slightly EQ'd HD800 still rules supreme.
  
 People think that the HD800 sounds "dull", but that's exactly what I feel when I try the Audeze headphones. It's a powerful and smooth sound but the soundstage is pretty small and there is no top end "air" and sparkle, for me that makes the Audeze headphones boring. They are also pretty heavy and your ears get warm after a while.
  
 People keep saying that the bass of the Audeze headphones is superior but I don't think so. Give the HD800 proper amplification, a pure copper cable and apply some light EQ (-3dB in the 6kHz band to soften that treble peak is a good start). The bass of a properly setup HD800 is super tight, goes as deep as the ocean and can really make your head shake if that's what you want.


----------



## nigeljames

twoears said:


> I just demoed the Audeze LCD-X in a store today and in my humble opinon my rig with a slightly EQ'd HD800 still rules supreme.
> 
> People think that the HD800 sounds "dull", but that's exactly what I feel when I try the Audeze headphones. It's a powerful and smooth sound but the soundstage is pretty small and there is no top end "air" and sparkle, for me that makes the Audeze headphones boring. They are also pretty heavy and your ears get warm after a while.
> 
> *People keep saying that the bass of the Audeze headphones is superior but I don't think so. Give the HD800 proper amplification, a pure copper cable and apply some light EQ (-3dB in the 6kHz band to soften that treble peak is a good start). The bass of a properly setup HD800 is super tight, goes as deep as the ocean and can really make your head shake if that's what you want.*


 
  
+ 1 on that, although I use a pure silver/gold cable and don't need to EQ anything


----------



## marlowe19

I'm leaning towards this exact combination at the moment (SR-009 + 007tII). And I have yet to read complaints from any of its_ owners_. However, Tyll has this to say: "The problem with this amp is all that goodness goes out the window when turned up to stronger listening levels. The bass doesn't seem to get louder, just woollier, and the mids start to get shouty. But the worst thing is that the somewhat innocuous treble sparkle quickly grew through glare and on into what sounds like significant distortion to me." Now, just how hard is Tyll _actually_ pushing this amp before experiencing such a deterioration in sound quality? What does "stronger listening levels" mean? Are we talking ear-splitting rock concert levels? I'd like to hear from some owners. Has anyone encountered what Tyll describes?


----------



## marlowe19

rgs9200m said:


> My SR009 with 007t/ii amp with RCA 6cg7 tubes is awesome to me, even the bass is very fine. A super-amp is nice, but not necessary by any means.
> HD800 actually seems to need more high-end-amp support to sound great (mine do), but still not in SR009 territory in terms of resolution, smoothness, and speed.


 
 I'm leaning towards this exact combination at the moment (SR-009 + 007tII). And I have yet to read complaints from any of its _owners_. However, Tyll has this to say: "The problem with this amp is all that goodness goes out the window when turned up to stronger listening levels. The bass doesn't seem to get louder, just woollier, and the mids start to get shouty. But the worst thing is that the somewhat innocuous treble sparkle quickly grew through glare and on into what sounds like significant distortion to me." Now, just how hard is Tyll _actually_ pushing this amp before experiencing such a deterioration in sound quality? What does "stronger listening levels" mean? Are we talking ear-splitting rock concert levels? I'd like to hear from some owners. Has anyone encountered what Tyll describes?


----------



## LugBug1

twoears said:


> People think that the HD800 sounds "dull", but that's exactly what I feel when I try the Audeze headphones. It's a powerful and smooth sound but the soundstage is pretty small and there is no top end "air" and sparkle, for me that makes the Audeze headphones boring. They are also pretty heavy and your ears get warm after a while.
> 
> People keep saying that the bass of the Audeze headphones is superior but I don't think so. Give the HD800 proper amplification, a pure copper cable and apply some light EQ (-3dB in the 6kHz band to soften that treble peak is a good start). The bass of a properly setup HD800 is super tight, goes as deep as the ocean and can really make your head shake if that's what you want.


 
  
 +2 on that. Audeze have great bass if that is all you want from a headphone. But the fire is too hot below! The heat travels up through the rest of the frequency response and you can't make out what's happening at the top for smoke.. They have a lovely cozy tone that is ideal for Jazz ensemble or intimate vocals. But they simply can't compete in true hi-fi terms with the Senn's. Everything is the right temperature with the HD800. Even if some don't agree with the 6k icicle.


----------



## Rossliew

It's the 6k icicle that brings air, clarity and transparency to these cans. I've learnt to accept it for what it is and enjoy whatever music that flows through it.


----------



## LugBug1

rossliew said:


> It's the 6k icicle that brings air, clarity and transparency to these cans. I've learnt to accept it for what it is and enjoy whatever music that flows through it.


 
 Yup its never been an issue with me at all. 
  
 I do EQ other cans and am not against a bit of digital tailoring so to speak. I tried downing the 6khz area 2-3 db just to see how it affected them. To be honest the difference was that small I found it hard to tell any change. This lead me to believe that the so called 6k trouble area might not be the cause of some folks fatigue. I would recommend anyone trying this. Just down the 6k a few db and see what difference it makes. (shut your eyes and click the reset to put it back to flat with some piano music for e.g) It could of course be my middle aged hearing, but I can generally hear changes with other hp's and their peaks when I play around with an EQ.


----------



## pearljam50000

I read somewhere here that the earlier serial # HD800 had a fuller sound in comparison to new serial #.
 Is that true? how big is the difference between "old" and "new" HD800's? thanks.


----------



## Maxvla

No significant difference. Normal production variance, the smallest of any high end headphone.


----------



## rydenfan

What is the best EQ to use in conjunction with J River?


----------



## bearFNF

rydenfan said:


> What is the best EQ to use in conjunction with J River?


 
 In my experience, "Off" is the best EQ, YMMV 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




​


----------



## Zoom25

icebear said:


> Positively the HD800 has a better sound stage than the SR-009. I heard both at the NY Spring meet with Justin's set up, i.e. GSX-MkII and BHSE respectively. Yes, the SR-009 is a class above in terms of resolution and complete effortless of the presentation, the music is "just there" BUT the music is inside your head. There is no other headphone currently that has the ability to create a live like sound stage and allows pin point localization of voices and instruments like the HD800 does. Therefore I would prefer the HD800 every time besides the little monetary difference for a complete set up (hp & amp).
> 
> But anyway enjoy you b.. a.. TV.
> My living room wouldn't be big enough for a proper viewing distance
> ...


 
  
 Yeah I liked that about the HD800. It's the closest headphone that can emulate how speakers throw a soundstage from the front and also have a pinpoint centerstage. Centerstage is quite important to me. I hated how some planars, like HE-500 didn't have a coherent centerstage despite how well it imaged on the sides. LOL I'm in the process of adding new TVs to each floor along with their active monitors and DAC/pre-amp. Down to one passive speaker setup. It's much cheaper, easier and better sounding this way.
  


preproman said:


> Nothing polite about the HD800s, that's for sure..


 
 Yeah definitely not. I wish I had tried them earlier. I suppose it's all for the best. At least this way I won't have a "what-if" planar bug. I've yet to experiment with HD800 on other setup besides mine, but it sounds like a high end neutral monitor. Much better than the laid back Audeze.
  


twoears said:


> I just demoed the Audeze LCD-X in a store today and in my humble opinon my rig with a slightly EQ'd HD800 still rules supreme.
> 
> People think that the HD800 sounds "dull", but that's exactly what I feel when I try the Audeze headphones. It's a powerful and smooth sound but the soundstage is pretty small and there is no top end "air" and sparkle, for me that makes the Audeze headphones boring. They are also pretty heavy and your ears get warm after a while.
> 
> *People keep saying that the bass of the Audeze headphones is superior but I don't think so. Give the HD800 proper amplification, a pure copper cable and apply some light EQ (-3dB in the 6kHz band to soften that treble peak is a good start). The bass of a properly setup HD800 is super tight, goes as deep as the ocean and can really make your head shake if that's what you want.*


 
 Yup. I've owned all or auditioned all the planars and their bass isn't anything over special compared to HD800. HD800 with seem deep house easily shows just how much it can be a sub bass head monster. The only planar I'd take is LCD-2 for it's slam. The other Audezes and Hifiman either go soft on the impact (LCD-3) or lose out on the extension (HE-500).


----------



## icebear

rossliew said:


> The HD800 made me love treble and its realism is second to none, imo. It is the treble that gives you the beautifully wide soundstage. ...


 
 I am not sure about this.
 It is ambient information, reflections of the original sound source from the walls of the performance/recording room. That includes all frequencies not only treble. The most important factor for localization are time differences between these reflections and the source and the delay between the receptions of this information at your eardrums. So accuracy in detail and perfect timing need to come together to make the reproduction believable.


----------



## TwoEars

icebear said:


> I am not sure about this.
> It is ambient information, reflections of the original sound source from the walls of the performance/recording room. That includes all frequencies not only treble. The most important factor for localization are time differences between these reflections and the source and the delay between the receptions of this information at your eardrums. So accuracy in detail and perfect timing need to come together to make the reproduction believable.


 
  
 I think I have to agree with this. The HD800 was designed with a big angled driver that is meant to act on the whole ear, not just a narrow point around the ear canal. This is what gives the HD800 such a big and wide soundstage.
  
 I've tried some pretty extreme EQ settings and even when you make the HD800 sound as dark as the LCD-2 the soundstage is still there.


----------



## MickeyVee

It's all relative. I have the RS1i as my complementary pair of HPs to the HD800 and in my case, yes, the HD800 are polite.
 Quote:


preproman said:


> Nothing polite about the HD800s, that's for sure..


----------



## pearljam50000

So can we agree that the HD800, as a package, is the best headphones on the planet? ^_^
I never heard such a realistic and holographic sound from headphones, in my life.


----------



## TwoEars

pearljam50000 said:


> So can we agree that the HD800, as a package, is the best headphones on the planet? ^_^
> I never heard such a realistic and holographic sound from headphones, in my life.


 
  
 At this level it's down to personal preference.
  
 Some people like beer, I prefer wine. Some people like fast cars, I like reliable cars. You get the idea.
  
 In stock form straight out of the box and with no EQ I'd probably take the LCD-X. But the thing with the HD800 is that just like the HD600 and HD650 it scales exceptionally well with better equipment.
  
 HD800 balanced with pure copper cable and -3dB EQ on that 6kHz peak is for me an entirely different experience than the stock HD800. It's powerful, meaty, dead neutral, and still with soundstage and comfort to die for.


----------



## icebear

twoears said:


> I think I have to agree with this. The HD800 was designed with *a big angled driver that is meant to act on the whole ear, not just a narrow point around the ear canal.* This is what gives the HD800 such a big and wide soundstage.   ...


 
 That's an interesting point - the size of the driver but then ...
 the driver surface of the Audeze range or SR-009 isn't any smaller than the driver of the HD800, are they?
 So this leaves the angle position but then there were a couple of Staxes around with angled position drivers.
 I guess it's not so easy to explain how the Sennheiser development crew came up with this "beast" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## SilverEars

Is Beta 22 a bad pairing with these?


----------



## eantala

my super 7 just came in .. man these hd800 never cease to amaze me. 
 the super 7 is the cat's pajama's also..
 everytime I listen to my 2 channel for extended periods I get ideas of selling the head-fi stuff
 but when I start  listen these again I still love them as much as I ever did.


----------



## magiccabbage

eantala said:


> my super 7 just came in .. man these hd800 never cease to amaze me.
> the super 7 is the cat's pajama's also..
> everytime I listen to my 2 channel for extended periods I get ideas of selling the head-fi stuff
> but when I start  listen these again I still love them as much as I ever did.


 
 WHAT 2 CHANNEL YOU GOT?


----------



## Maxvla

silverears said:


> Is Beta 22 a bad pairing with these?



Not bad, but not great.


----------



## TwoEars

icebear said:


> That's an interesting point - the size of the driver but then ...
> the driver surface of the Audeze range or SR-009 isn't any smaller than the driver of the HD800, are they?
> So this leaves the angle position but then there were a couple of Staxes around with angled position drivers.
> I guess it's not so easy to explain how the Sennheiser development crew came up with this "beast"
> ...


 
  
 It's not only about the size of the driver, or how it's angled, but how it moves as well. The ring driver was specifically designed to have a "flat wavefront" and act on the out ear as well as the inner ear, this simulates the sound waves of speaker reaching you from far away.
  
 Orthos and stax have big membranes but I'd wager that the HD800 still has the "flattest wavefront" of them all.


----------



## SilverEars

maxvla said:


> Not bad, but not great.


 
 What is considered great?  Also, is the Matrix M-stage better pairing than the Beta?


----------



## Maxvla

I'd say so, but not by a lot. The M-Stage allows the HD800 to do what it does, but has a little etch here and there. Not the biggest stage and layering isn't as good as a high end amp, but extremely respectable for $280. The B22 dulls the HD800 to a significant degree and it feels like it lacks energy, soft in bass delivery.

There a lot of great amp matches with HD800s, too many to list really.


----------



## froger

I am using HD800 with DNA Stratus. The transparency and tonality I get is incredible, and together with the body that the amp is able to give to the voice, the singers and instruments sound like they are right in front singing to me, goosebumping realistic. Many said that HD800 has a wide soundstage, but I am even more impressed with its deep depth that it is able to portray. Using my DAC and the Stratus, the layering in depth to me is more impressive than the width. As what other have said, HD800 really scales very well and after spending 15k on my set-up,I am still not sure if I am near HD800's performance ceiling. One thing for sure, I am very satisfied with what I am hearing with the HD800 and I have no desire at the moment to purchase another headphone at all, as HD800 is playing all the music I have so well.


----------



## preproman

zoom25 said:


> Yeah I liked that about the HD800. It's the closest headphone that can emulate how speakers throw a soundstage from the front and also have a pinpoint centerstage. Centerstage is quite important to me. I hated how some planars, like HE-500 didn't have a coherent centerstage despite how well it imaged on the sides. LOL I'm in the process of adding new TVs to each floor along with their active monitors and DAC/pre-amp. Down to one passive speaker setup. It's much cheaper, easier and better sounding this way.
> 
> Yeah definitely not. I wish I had tried them earlier. I suppose it's all for the best. At least this way I won't have a "what-if" planar bug. I've yet to experiment with HD800 on other setup besides mine, but it sounds like a high end neutral monitor. Much better than the laid back Audeze.
> 
> Yup. I've owned all or auditioned all the planars and their bass isn't anything over special compared to HD800. HD800 with seem deep house easily shows just how much it can be a sub bass head monster. The only planar I'd take is LCD-2 for it's slam. *The other Audezes and Hifiman either go soft on the impact (LCD-3) or lose out on the extension (HE-500).*


 
  
 The HE-6 does neither.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





mickeyvee said:


> It's all relative. I have the RS1i as my complementary pair of HPs to the HD800 and in my case, yes, the HD800 are polite.


 
  
 Yes it's all relative.  However, relative still does not make them polite.  It just makes them less forward than the RS1's.


----------



## OldSkool

Thinking hard about upgrading from the Lyr. Any suggestions on what <$1500 amp would work equally well with HD800 and LCD2.2?
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## scolaiw

oldskool said:


> Thinking hard about upgrading from the Lyr. Any suggestions on what <$1500 amp would work equally well with HD800 and LCD2.2?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 

 If you can run balanced, you could always go the Mjolnir. Otherwise the Phonitor or Auditor are pretty good for the job also... but seriously, there are so many amps out there that could fit your liking, you could even build one or get someone to build one for you just to your likings. The options are endless.


----------



## bearFNF

oldskool said:


> Thinking hard about upgrading from the Lyr. Any suggestions on what <$1500 amp would work equally well with HD800 and LCD2.2?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Decware CSP3 or Taboo MKIII would be good options.


----------



## moses1258

bearfnf said:


> Decware CSP3 or Taboo MKIII would be good options.


 
 I have the CSP2+ from Decware and recommend it highly with the HD800.  It adds just the right amount of warmth while still retaining the details that make the 800 special.
  
 I even went to Decware to meet Steve and the team.  The man is dedicated to making good sounding amps, speakers, etc.  Read some of his articles on Decware.com and you'll see what I mean.


----------



## Zoom25

oldskool said:


> Thinking hard about upgrading from the Lyr. Any suggestions on what <$1500 amp would work equally well with HD800 and LCD2.2?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
 BHA-1


----------



## Rossliew

icebear said:


> I am not sure about this.
> It is ambient information, reflections of the original sound source from the walls of the performance/recording room. That includes all frequencies not only treble. The most important factor for localization are time differences between these reflections and the source and the delay between the receptions of this information at your eardrums. So accuracy in detail and perfect timing need to come together to make the reproduction believable.


 
 LOL...this is too technical for me! In simple layman's terms, I find the treble to the single greatest contributing factor to hearing more spaciousness in the music and a more expansive sound stage. All my previous headphones were dark sounding in nature and even if they were open backed, the sound tended to be closed in due to the rolled off treble. Yes, bass was thumping but it was lacking something and I find the HD800 has made me appreciate higher frequencies a lot more than before : ) But, thanks for the clarification, in any case!


----------



## Zoom25

preproman said:


> The HE-6 does neither.


 
 I haven't heard the HE-6 from the TOTL headphone amplifiers yet, although have heard them from some really high end speaker amplifiers (McIntosh, Luxman, PrimaLuna, EAR, Marantz reference gear) all over 3k at the least. They are definitely better than HE-500 although I still got a sense of fatigue in long sessions. The thing I hate about the HE-6 is that you get tied down to a single place with a speaker amp. Also, not the best comfort wise in comparison to Audezes, Denon, Fostex and Sennheiser.
  
 They hit hard and in all the right places. Although they lose out on extension to Audeze or Denon. Still very fun though.


----------



## Rossliew

oldskool said:


> Thinking hard about upgrading from the Lyr. Any suggestions on what <$1500 amp would work equally well with HD800 and LCD2.2?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
 Would a Vali make sense? I haven't owned an LCD2 before but considering it is relatively sensitive, the Vali should be able to drive it and it is so affordable! I know the Vali drives my HD800s wonderfully!
  
 *EDIT : Sorry, saw you mentioned upgrading from the Lyr..suppose the Vali cannot really be considered an upgrade per se..*


----------



## Drsparis

zoom25 said:


> BHA-1



+1
Came here to say this !


----------



## thegrobe

oldskool said:


> Thinking hard about upgrading from the Lyr. Any suggestions on what <$1500 amp would work equally well with HD800 and LCD2.2?
> 
> Thanks in advance.







bearfnf said:


> Decware CSP3 or Taboo MKIII would be good options.




+1 ^

For the HD800, at least, both amps are great. I personally never cared too much for the LCD's on the CSP3 however. Not with the option of the mk3 sitting there!

Running the pair together is very nice as well, for either HD800 or LCD. 

For HD800, the CSP3 alone, mk3 alone, or both paired together all work very well. Different "flavors" for the HD800. LCD, I would prefer mk3 alone or CSP3+mk3.


----------



## Maxvla

oldskool said:


> Thinking hard about upgrading from the Lyr. Any suggestions on what <$1500 amp would work equally well with HD800 and LCD2.2?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



I'd wait and see what happens with Ragnarok. It's a couple hundred over budget ($1700), but should be excellent and pulls double duty powering speakers if you need that. They should be shipping Rags in a couple weeks.


----------



## TwoEars

There certainly is no shortage of high-end amps these days!
  
 Eddie Current, DNA, Bakoon, Schiit, Auralic, Questyle, Violectric, HeadAmp, BottleHead, RSA, Cavalli, Woo...
  
 Personally I'd like to see a shootout between the Ragnarok and new Violectric V281, that'd be fantastic.
  
 Maybe throw in the Auralic, Questyle or Bakoon for good measure.
  
 (the bakoon actually has the most interesting/best operating principle but it's slightly expensive...)


----------



## pearljam50000

Best amp/dac combo for HD800 for 300$ or less?


----------



## Maxvla

Matrix M-Stage HPA-2 w/USB DAC $320


----------



## SilverEars

Why is this mutha so complicated?  So damn finicky with amps.  Scratching my head with why Beta isn't a top amp for it.
  
 As for planars, I give my HE-6 it's mommy, the Beta 22, and the baby responds very nicely.


----------



## TwoEars

If you've got a computer this: http://rog.asus.com/307922014/news/asus-essence-stx-ii-and-essence-stx-ii-7-1-hi-fi-grade-sound-launches/
  
 But careful now... this is the "high-end" audio forum.


----------



## preproman

zoom25 said:


> I haven't heard the HE-6 from the TOTL headphone amplifiers yet, although have heard them from some really high end speaker amplifiers (McIntosh, Luxman, PrimaLuna, EAR, Marantz reference gear) all over 3k at the least. They are definitely better than HE-500 although I still got a sense of fatigue in long sessions. The thing I hate about the HE-6 is that you get tied down to a single place with a speaker amp. Also, not the best comfort wise in comparison to Audezes, Denon, Fostex and Sennheiser.
> 
> They hit hard and in all the right places. Although they lose out on extension to Audeze or Denon. Still very fun though.


 
 The PrimaLuna don't count.  I'm not sure what over 3K has to do with anything, still not enough power to drive the HE-6.  I beg the differ that they lose out on extension to Denon and Audeze.  They are most defiantly tighter in bass response than both - no question.
  
 Correct, they are not the last word when it comes to comfort.


----------



## Feynman

I have a Schiit Vali with a musicstreamer II and my HD800. Is a source upgrade the way to go?


----------



## SilverEars

feynman said:


> I have a Schiit Vali with a musicstreamer II and my HD800. Is a source upgrade the way to go?


 
 Hi, I'm a believe in DAC changing the signal when it comes to details, and tonality to some extent as long as the amp is neutral.  I would look into getting a better DAC if you know for sure your amp is transparent.  
  
 I had a chance to test my DAC by trying out different amps with it, and also different DAC with the amps.  I have concluded my DAC is providing the details my HE-6 is providing.  Some say HD800 is more detailed, but I think if you give it the right combo, the headphone will open up to your liking.
  
 I personally like the ESS Sabre chips.  I'm looking into Resonance labs DACs since they used to design the ESS chips.  
  
 What DACs are being used here?  And, does it make a difference to your setups?


----------



## sathyam

maxvla said:


> I'd wait and see what happens with Ragnarok. It's a couple hundred over budget ($1700), but should be excellent and pulls double duty powering speakers if you need that. They should be shipping Rags in a couple weeks.




This behemoth seems to power anything from IEMs to speakers. Sounds very promising. I am waiting for this one. Looks like Jude has one of these. Waiting eagerly for his impressions.


----------



## kugino

sathyam said:


> This behemoth seems to power anything from IEMs to speakers. Sounds very promising. I am waiting for this one. Looks like Jude has one of these. Waiting eagerly for his impressions.


Yeah, I'm looking at the Taurus, but will probably wait on that to see how the ragnarok turns out. Much more versatile than the Taurus and if it can come close to the Taurus in terms of performance, might be a bargain.


----------



## erikfreedom

sooner than later, someone is gonna do a review of yulong audio sabre a8 fully balanced flagship solid state amplifier. it list at 2800 usd$ on grant fidelity page. it cranks 5w into 32 ohms and 1,35 watts into 300 ohms balanced. plenty of power for hd 800. and pure class a jfet.
  
 http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Yulong-Sabre-A8-Limited-Edition-Ultra-Fidelity-Fully-Balanced-Headphone-Amplifier.html


----------



## Canadian411

erikfreedom said:


> sooner than later, someone is gonna do a review of yulong audio sabre a8 fully balanced flagship solid state amplifier. it list at 2800 usd$ on grant fidelity page. it cranks 5w into 32 ohms and 1,35 watts into 300 ohms balanced. plenty of power for hd 800. and pure class a jfet.
> 
> http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Yulong-Sabre-A8-Limited-Edition-Ultra-Fidelity-Fully-Balanced-Headphone-Amplifier.html


 
  
 With D8 ?


----------



## kugino

erikfreedom said:


> sooner than later, someone is gonna do a review of yulong audio sabre a8 fully balanced flagship solid state amplifier. it list at 2800 usd$ on grant fidelity page. it cranks 5w into 32 ohms and 1,35 watts into 300 ohms balanced. plenty of power for hd 800. and pure class a jfet.
> 
> http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Yulong-Sabre-A8-Limited-Edition-Ultra-Fidelity-Fully-Balanced-Headphone-Amplifier.html


 
 for that price you can pick up a ragnarok AND a used pair of hd800 
  
 and the ragnarok is listed as putting out 15W into 32ohms...


----------



## OldSkool

bearfnf said:


> Decware CSP3 or Taboo MKIII would be good options.


 

 Thanks to everyone who responded. Any thoughts on Woo WA2 with the HD800?
  
 I'm pleasantly surprised at how good this new LCD2.2. sounds outta my recapped vintage Marantz receiver!


----------



## SilverEars

kugino said:


> for that price you can pick up a ragnarok AND a used pair of hd800
> 
> and the ragnarok is listed as putting out *15W into 32ohms*...


 
 That's nothing special.  Get a vintage speaker amp with headphones output, you will get that and wattage left over.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I cannot comment if it will sound great, but you will have lots of power.


----------



## magiccabbage

oldskool said:


> Thanks to everyone who responded. Any thoughts on Woo WA2 with the HD800?
> 
> I'm pleasantly surprised at how good this new LCD2.2. sounds outta my recapped vintage Marantz receiver!


 
 I love the WA2/HD800 combo. I also have the Beyerdynamic T1 and although the T1 is said to be a match made in heaven with WA2 I prefer the HD800 pairing.


----------



## OldSkool

magiccabbage said:


> I love the WA2/HD800 combo. I also have the Beyerdynamic T1 and although the T1 is said to be a match made in heaven with WA2 I prefer the HD800 pairing.


 

 What tubes are you using?


----------



## bearFNF

oldskool said:


> Thanks to everyone who responded. Any thoughts on Woo WA2 with the HD800?
> 
> I'm pleasantly surprised at how good this new LCD2.2. sounds outta my recapped vintage Marantz receiver!



unfortunately I haven't listened to the WA2. however the WA 22 was very nice with the HD 800. I also like to the WA 7. If they had had that out when I was looking for an amp I probably would have bought that instead of the taboo but I do like the taboo very much.


----------



## magiccabbage

oldskool said:


> What tubes are you using?


 
 RFT EZ80 - Tung Sol 5998 - Jan Sylvania 7308
  
  
 WA2/HD800 is supposed to sound absolutely amazing with the power tubes changed to GEC 6AS7G and bugle boy drivers.


----------



## longbowbbs

bearfnf said:


> oldskool said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks to everyone who responded. Any thoughts on Woo WA2 with the HD800?
> ...


 
 I listened to the WA22 with my HD800's yesterday at Axpona. Jack definitely felt that the WA22 was a better match for them than the WA2. I have to agree based on my time with them. 
  
 The Taboo is also a great match. It would be fun to try the Taboo and the WA22 side by side.


----------



## OldSkool

I suppose I'm drawn to the WA2 because it uses 6922/7308 tubes, and I have a nice collection of those tubes.
  
 The Lyr certainly isn't bad with the HD800 but I know there is a better match out there...somewhere.
  
 Thanks to everyone for the replies.


----------



## OldSkool

magiccabbage said:


> RFT EZ80 - Tung Sol 5998 - Jan Sylvania 7308
> 
> 
> WA2/HD800 is supposed to sound absolutely amazing with the power tubes changed to GEC 6AS7G and bugle boy drivers.


 

 Thanks!


----------



## SilverEars

..Sorry, wrong thread.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I had the wa 22 if upgraded tubes are used in balance mode it is a great amp for the hd800. Also the wa2 again with upgraded tubes. I sold the wa22 as I had too many amps and it did sound well in SE mode with CIEM,s or headphones. It's magic lies in BAL mode. 

Al


----------



## HPiper

Has anybody heard the HD800 on a Musical Fidelity M1 HPA amplifier.


----------



## TwoEars

hpiper said:


> Has anybody heard the HD800 on a Musical Fidelity M1 HPA amplifier.


 
  
 Nothing special, a bit too polite and flat. Try the violectric amps. You can find the v200 on the second hand market here sometimes.


----------



## Viper2005

twoears said:


> Nothing special, a bit too polite and flat. Try the violectric amps. You can find the v200 on the second hand market here sometimes.




The Violectric V200 has really good synergy with the HD800s!


----------



## Zoom25

I found the HD800 to be quite comfortable on it's own but I wonder if anyone has bothered to try a Beyer foam headband on it, or anything else to even further improve the comfort? It made a big difference with the planars.


----------



## navigavi

viper2005 said:


> The Violectric V200 has really good synergy with the HD800s!


 
  
 I agree. Paired up with the V800 DAC I can say it sounds amazing.


----------



## TwoEars

Latest itteration of my hardwired HD800. Now with 4-pin XLR and 6.3 adapter.
  

  
 Not bad if I may say so myself.


----------



## James-uk

twoears said:


> Latest itteration of my hardwired HD800. Now with 4-pin XLR and 6.3 adapter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What does hard wiring achieve ? I can't imagine any scenario where this is an advantage. I do like the adapter mod though btw that is certainly worth doing even with non hard wired cable. Saves pulling the wire out at the cups Everytime.


----------



## preproman

james-uk said:


> What does hard wiring achieve ? I can't imagine any scenario where this is an advantage. I do like the adapter mod though btw that is certainly worth doing even with non hard wired cable. Saves pulling the wire out at the cups Everytime.





  
 You would be shocked to see all the parts that's "not needed" after hardwire mod has been done.  I would have it no other way now.  I got mine done by James at SAA.  Not sure where TwoEars got his done?


----------



## LugBug1

All to do with contacts, and the less the better. Hardwired isn't a contact anymore


----------



## James-uk

Dare I ask how this improves sq? Is it to much of an assumption that even with the connectors the signal path is still clean. I am genuinely intrigued I'm not just after an argument btw. I wouldn't dare do this to my precious 800s!


----------



## TwoEars

preproman said:


> You would be shocked to see all the parts that's "not needed" after hardwire mod has been done.  I would have it no other way now.  I got mine done by James at SAA.  Not sure where TwoEars got his done?


 
  
 All courtesy of TwoEars Basement Mods Inc. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hardwiring may not be 100% necessary but for me it was kind of a fun project, and there is no doubt in my mind that a HD800 hardwired with a pure copper cable is the ultimate expression of said headphone.
  
 In my case I used microphone cable with 23AWG oxygen free copper, so this cable then goes all the way from the 4-pin XLR to each respective headphone driver.
  
 I can't exactly do A-B comparisions but overall I'm extremely happy with the mod! Here's a picture I took while doing the original hardwiring. You can see how thin the original internal wires are compared the ones that are about to be soldered in.
  

  
 If you're interested I posted more pictures of this some while back, maybe a month ago or so. I left some impression there as well and they're still valid!!!


----------



## Blasyrkh

hardwiring is the new fashion?
  
 i remember when people complained about the non-detachable cable for swapping, and now you destroy the cans to get hardwire
  
 funny


----------



## icebear

blasyrkh said:


> hardwiring is the new fashion?
> 
> i remember when people complained about the non-detachable cable for swapping, and now you destroy the cans to get hardwire
> 
> funny


 
 Obviously this is a very decent DIY job (to say the least) and nothing about destroying the cans.
 Of course you have to make a decision on the cable and loose the convenience of just pulling plugs out and swapping the cable but certainly any connection in the signal path that is not necessary can potentially degrade SQ.


----------



## kugino

icebear said:


> Obviously this is a very decent DIY job (to say the least) and nothing about destroying the cans.
> Of course you have to make a decision on the cable and loose the convenience of just pulling plugs out and swapping the cable but certainly any connection in the signal path that is not necessary can potentially degrade SQ.


The gauge of wires isn't that big of a deal with headphones.


----------



## icebear

kugino said:


> The gauge of wires isn't that big of a deal with headphones.


 
  A quote with no reference to the comment does not make too much sense, does it ) ?
  
 I haven't mentioned anything about wire gauge but you are right about that.
 The current needed to be transported for a headphone usually doesn't pose a challenge for the wire.
  
 What I was referring to were connections.
 Every connection is worse than a straight wire. A high quality connection is less worse ). Therefore hard wiring, when the connection is not really needed, is optimizing the signal path.


----------



## Zoom25

I prefer having detachable cables for varying length more than the sound change. Using on a desktop, I prefer a smaller cable. Although for another room where my setup would be far, I can swap it out for a 8/10 foot cable.


----------



## roguegeek

sonido said:


> Just don't go to a meet and hear it out of something like the Cavalli Liquid Glass and you'll be good. It's too late for me. Unfortunately I can't unhear it.


 
 Well thankfully that's out of the range I want to pay.


----------



## kugino

icebear said:


> A quote with no reference to the comment does not make too much sense, does it ) ?
> 
> I haven't mentioned anything about wire gauge but you are right about that.
> The current needed to be transported for a headphone usually doesn't pose a challenge for the wire.
> ...


 
 aah, right. wrong post i quoted. it was the post where he mentioned that the internal wires were so thin and were being replaced by thicker gauge wires. thanks for clarifying...


----------



## Blasyrkh

icebear said:


> certainly any connection in the signal path that is not necessary can potentially degrade SQ.


 
 by how much? what does it improve?
  
 i don't want to be mean, but for me it's ridicolous....maybe you should hardwire EVERY connection in your system to gain some benefits


----------



## TwoEars

Perhaps it's not possible to hear the difference between hardwired and not.
  
 Perhaps it's not possible to hear an extra connector in the signal chain.
  
 Perhaps it's not possible to hear the difference between thicker wires or thinner wires.
  
 Perhaps it's not possible to hear the difference between generic supermarket interconnects and hifi ones.
  
 Perhaps it's not possible to hear the difference between balanced or single ended.
  
 But add it all together and maybe you have something that is more than the sum of its parts? Hmmm? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Rewiring my HD800's is one of the best mods I've done to any of my hifi gear. For me it has lifted the HD800 up onto a platform where it sounds not only equal or different than the LCD-2/3/X, but to my ears and for my tastes, clearly better.
  
 Rememeber that this is the High-End section, the constant strive for perfection is nothing new here. It is possible I could get the majority of the percieved improvement by simply changing the cable, and not hardwiring. But I could do it, so I did it. It was a fun project and I'm more than happy with the combined result.
  
 If you don't want to do it, you don't have to. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I just wanted to share something fun for you guys to get inspired by.


----------



## Blasyrkh

twoears said:


> Perhaps you can't hear the difference between hardwired and not.
> 
> Perhaps you can't hear an extra connector in the signal chain.
> 
> ...


 
  
 but it would be much more interesting to understand the benefits of hardwiring....
 if you didn't listen to the same non-hw cable you could not compare, and my words have the same weight as yours


----------



## rydenfan

So count me as another believer. HD800's ordered today. I always enjoyed them in the past but never "needed" them until the recent demo with my Auralic stack. I can't wait!


----------



## James-uk

I find that a regular listening session with the stock cable and O2/odac is the best way to keep me grounded in this crazy hobby. I have 'better' gear but honestly who am I kidding it's all about the headphones and the hd800 sound like the hd800 in any which way you attach them to the source.


----------



## bearFNF

twoears said:


> Perhaps it's not possible to hear the difference between generic supermarket interconnects and hifi ones.


 
 Whoa, cool supermarket that would have headphone interconnects...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Also, I appreciate your sharing your mod, thanks.


----------



## TwoEars

I meant cheapies like these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
  
 Also - no problem!


----------



## icebear

blasyrkh said:


> by how much? what does it improve?
> 
> i don't want to be mean, but for me it's ridicolous....maybe you should hardwire EVERY connection in your system to gain some benefits


 

 Every plug connection has metal to metal contact. It depends on the matching specs of the dimensions of plug and receptacle how good the connection is mechanically. In most cases these surfaces are not of identical materials. Consequently you'll have local voltages that promote corrosion. If you keep the connections spanking clean, you'll have the best case scenario. Dust, fingerprints, sweat, humidity and what not can and will degrade the connection.
 A straight wire will obviously eliminate all of these negative influences but hey, if that's all ridiculous to you anyway, then don't worry and enjoy your set up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







.


----------



## paradoxper

Unless you've heard a hardwired HD800 and didn't think much of it, shutup. Firsthand experience
 counts for everything and everything else counts for nothing.
  
 Twoears, very nice job. Pretty cool that you did it yourself considering most go with James or Robert.


----------



## James-uk

icebear said:


> Every plug connection has metal to metal contact. It depends on the matching specs of the dimensions of plug and receptacle how good the connection is mechanically. In most cases these surfaces are not of identical materials. Consequently you'll have local voltages that promote corrosion. If you keep the connections spanking clean, you'll have the best case scenario. Dust, fingerprints, sweat, humidity and what not can and will degrade the connection.
> A straight wire will obviously eliminate all of these negative influences but hey, if that's all ridiculous to you anyway, then don't worry and enjoy your set up   .




Now that's an interesting point . Hadn't thought of it like that.


----------



## Blasyrkh

icebear said:


> Every plug connection has metal to metal contact. It depends on the matching specs of the dimensions of plug and receptacle how good the connection is mechanically. In most cases these surfaces are not of identical materials. Consequently you'll have local voltages that promote corrosion. If you keep the connections spanking clean, you'll have the best case scenario. Dust, fingerprints, sweat, humidity and what not can and will degrade the connection.
> A straight wire will obviously eliminate all of these negative influences but hey, if that's all ridiculous to you anyway, then don't worry and enjoy your set up
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 that's the theory, and i think you are right....what I want to know is in practice what does it improve and by how much, because we are talking about good connections, not bad rusty ones


----------



## TwoEars

It's quite fun to make your own cable actually. If anyone wants to try you can you can find HD800 connectors here:
  
 http://www.moon-audio.com/sennheiser-hd800-diy-headphone-connectors.html
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Large-Custom-Sennheiser-HD800-Connectors-for-DIY-plusSound-/271450421117?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f33b4b77d
  

  
 Soldering these bad boys is probably the hardest part of any HD800 cable build since they are a bit small. But if you take your time it shouldn't be too difficult.
  
 After that I would recommend neutrik plugs, canare or mogami microphone cable and techflex expandable sleeving. You can get most of it from ebay or stores that do studio and stage equipment. And both moon audio and partsconnexion carry a lot of nice stuff.
  
 I got lucky and in my home town I found a small firm that did speaker repairs job, they carried a lot of stuff and let me buy some stuff from them.
  
 Don't forget some adhesive shrink tubing, and if you can find a Y-shrink (can be hard to find) that will make it look real professional:
  

  
 You'll need a basic soldering iron, some thin 60/40 solder and a small portable heat gun ($10) like this (for the heat shink):
  

  
 And... not much else actually. A pair of wirestrippers and a pair of small diagonal cutters is nice and I would recommend it, but a pair of scissors will do the job if you're careful.


----------



## icebear

blasyrkh said:


> that's the theory, and i think you are right....what I want to know is in practice what does it improve and by how much, because we are talking about good connections, not bad rusty ones


 

 It depends what you are looking for to achieve in your set up. If a live feeling of the performance, the illusion of being there and the musicians playing in your room, rather the obvious just reproduction of preserved sound from what ever source, then a there might be just a small step that makes all the difference. Obviously if you are looking for a rating increase in percentages, then go buy one of these advertising hifi magazines and you'll get the difference in black and white numbers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Blasyrkh

icebear said:


> It depends what you are looking for to achieve in your set up. If a live feeling of the performance, the illusion of being there and the musicians playing in your room, rather the obvious just reproduction of preserved sound from what ever source, then a there might be just a small step that makes all the difference. Obviously if you are looking for a rating increase in percentages, then go buy one of these advertising hifi magazines and you'll get the difference in black and white numbers
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 the step from "reproduction-like" to "in-your-room-like" is HUGE, not simply a small step, and i think it cannot be achieved by hardwiring alone.
 actually, hardwiring is the last thing to do after you have chosen the right DAC,AMP and cables...those can truly let you make that step, hardwire is just refinement. whats the point of hardwiring if you have a 200$ dac/amp for your hd800
  
 still, nobody told me what's improved...detail?clarity?dynamics? what?


----------



## preproman

Like you said "refinement"  What more do you want - the same old cliches?  OK here she goes..  Soundstage opens up, I'm hearing things I've never heard before.


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> Like you said "refinement"  What more do you want - the same old cliches?  OK here she goes..  Soundstage opens up, I'm hearing things I've never heard before.


 
 hahahaha


----------



## 62ohm

So I've just pulled the trigger on the Beyerdynamic T1 to complement my HD800. I've heard it before, but it was 5 months ago, so I have a blurry memory of how it really sounds. I hope I made the right decision and it would make for a decent companion to the HD800.


----------



## TwoEars

For me, and to my ears, changing out the stock cable on the HD800 yielded a bigger improvement than changing the amp.
  
 More relaxed and natural presentation, less of an artificial feeling, less sibilance, a fuller "foundation" in the music, a little bit more rounded edges (actually a good thing on the HD800 since it's a bit too aggressive in stock form).
  
 Also - it makes the sound quality go to 11.


----------



## Canadian411

twoears said:


> For me, and to my ears, changing out the stock cable on the HD800 yielded a bigger improvement than changing the amp.
> 
> More relaxed and natural presentation, less of an artificial feeling, less sibilance, a fuller "foundation" in the music, a little bit more rounded edges (actually a good thing on the HD800 since it's a bit too aggressive in stock form).
> 
> Also - it makes the sound quality go to 11. :rolleyes:




Which cable was it? Thanks!


----------



## icebear

twoears said:


> For me, and to my ears, changing out the stock cable on the HD800 yielded a bigger improvement than changing the amp.
> 
> More relaxed and natural presentation, less of an artificial feeling, less sibilance, a fuller "foundation" in the music, a little bit more rounded edges (actually a good thing on the HD800 since it's a bit too aggressive in stock form).
> 
> Also - it makes the sound quality go to 11.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

So cables made a bigger change than a different amp ? Are your new cables balanced ? 
Al


----------



## icebear

...looks positively balanced :
  
 From TwoEars original post about his re-cableing job
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-appreciation-thread/9255#post_10369234


----------



## Chodi

alrainbow said:


> So cables made a bigger change than a different amp ? Are your new cables balanced ?
> Al


 
 TwoEars owns two balanced amps. It's not really surprising that they would sound better with any headphone in fully balanced mode. I don't think he was suggesting that there would be such a big improvement just changing cables on a se amp. I also had the experience of changing my HD800 to balanced cables and found that they were significantly improved but I also am using a fully balanced amp and dac so no big surprise there. Has more to do with matching equipment synergy.


----------



## TwoEars

Actually only one of my amps is balanced, the DNA Sonett. The V200 is single ended, as is the integrated amp in the Anedio D1 (Which is not to be underestimated!!!!)
  
 I made one last adapted this evening as well:

  
 Now I have full compability! The default on my HD800 is 4-pin XLR, but I now have adapters for both dual 3-pin XLR and 6.3mm plug.
  
 I choose to do it like this since it seems the industry is moving towards 4-pin XLR as the standard for balanced, and if I were to buy another amp in the future I would most likely get one that has 4-pin XLR.
  
 But right now I'm actually very happy with my system overall and don't really need to upgrade. It's quite fun to have both the DNA sonett and the V200 to compare, they are similar but also pretty different. I haven't really made up my mind as to which I like the best yet. Maybe there is no "best", maybe they're just different. This might very well be the case.
  
 @Alrainbow: About cables making bigger change than amps. This was for me and I can't guarantee that you'll have the same result. But i was looking to get rid of some of the harsness and siblance that the HD800 can have. And I've now found that the biggest contributing factor to this was neither dac nor amp but the stock cable which is copper/silver. With a thick pure copper cable I got the result I was looking for.
  
 Also - did you deactivate your account by request? How are you still able to post? What's going on here?


----------



## koiloco

twoears said:


> For me, and to my ears, *changing out the stock cable on the HD800 yielded a bigger improvement than changing the amp.*
> 
> More relaxed and natural presentation, less of an artificial feeling, less sibilance, a fuller "foundation" in the music, a little bit more rounded edges (actually a good thing on the HD800 since it's a bit too aggressive in stock form).
> 
> Also - it makes the sound quality go to 11.


 
  
 Oh Lord, please help us.


----------



## Mortalcoil

Nice work TwoEars


----------



## frix

he did a good job with the hardwiring, no doubt.
  
 What I don't get:
 people pay so much attention to the wiring of their headhpones.
 But what about all the cheap wires and connectors in the amps and DACs?
  
 Not to mention what happens on the recording side of things
  
 Also from another standpoint, I consider the connectors of the HD800
 to be well thought out.
 Once I stepped on the cable of my HD800 while I tried to stand up.
 The connectors disconnected on their own without damaging the cable nor the HP itself.


----------



## LugBug1

frix said:


> Once I stepped on the cable of my HD800 while I tried to stand up.
> The connectors disconnected on their own without damaging the cable nor the HP itself.


 
 Suppose thats one way to get the buggers out.. Mine won't budge!


----------



## icebear

lugbug1 said:


> Suppose thats *one way to get the buggers out.*. Mine won't budge!


 

 ROFL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

THE wires do look really good


----------



## TwoEars

koiloco said:


> Oh Lord, please help us.


 
  
 Your Lord cannot help you here, friend. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


mortalcoil said:


> Nice work TwoEars


 
  
 Thanks!
  


frix said:


> he did a good job with the hardwiring, no doubt.
> 
> What I don't get:
> people pay so much attention to the wiring of their headhpones.
> ...


 
  
 Yes, it is a bit silly I fully agree. I do believe that cables can make a difference since I've heard so myself. But I try to be somewhat realistic about it. I like thick pure copper and standard solder, after that all bets are off. I don't blame people for splurging on something like the SAA cables since they're a nice piece of craftsmanship and nice things cost money, I even owned a pair myself at one point. But I'm not a big fan of super expensive interconnects or speaker cabels.
  


lugbug1 said:


> Suppose thats one way to get the buggers out.. Mine won't budge!


 
  
 Mine was almost impossible to get out when I first got my HD800's as well. They got easier after I had disconnected them a couple of times. Best way to get them out was to get a firm grip with the fingers and pull them straight out in a very determined motion, but it does feel like you're using waaaaay too much force on something that costs this much money. That being said I do think these connectors still are superior to the HifiMan and Audeze ones. The HiFiman ones are just plain bad and I can't believe they're sticking with them on the HE-560. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe they've got a warehouse full of them.


----------



## obsidyen

I hate harsh treble, my ears are very sensitive. I'm going to be using Meridian Explorer as dac/amp. It's known as a smooth, liquid sounding, warm dac/amp. My favourite headphones are Sennheiser Momentums and Sennheiser IE800. I also have AKG Q 701 but I don't like them much, it sounds really harsh after 30 minutes. Do you think Sennheiser HD800 would be good for my tastes? I like Sennheiser sound more than others. You know that detailed, also somewhat laid back and a bit dark sound. I want detail but I don't want to hurt my ears for it. I'm not going to buy a new amp, Meridian Explorer's headphone out sounds great to me. Would you recommend HD 800?


----------



## kugino

twoears said:


> That being said I do think these connectors still are superior to the HifiMan and Audeze ones. The HiFiman ones are just plain bad and I can't believe they're sticking with them on the HE-560.  Maybe they've got a warehouse full of them.


the only problem is that they're expensive and proprietary. would be nice if they all had the same connectors so it was easier to "roll cables".


----------



## TwoEars

obsidyen said:


> I hate harsh treble, my ears are very sensitive. I'm going to be using Meridian Explorer as dac/amp. It's known as a smooth, liquid sounding, warm dac/amp. My favourite headphones are Sennheiser Momentums and Sennheiser IE800. I also have AKG Q 701 but I don't like them much, it sounds really harsh after 30 minutes. Do you think Sennheiser HD800 would be good for my tastes? I like Sennheiser sound more than others. You know that detailed, also somewhat laid back and a bit dark sound. I want detail but I don't want to hurt my ears for it. I'm not going to buy a new amp, Meridian Explorer's headphone out sounds great to me. Would you recommend HD 800?


 
  
 Have you heard the HD650? They are detailed and 100% non-fatiguing, not sure if the meridian will be able to power them properly.
  
 Actually... let me check.... I have both... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 EDIT: Oh yes, that will definitely work. Very impressive PRAT, drive and bass definition for such a puny device! Sounds great! Get the HD650, you should definitely like those with the Meridian Explorer! I think I will have to give this combo some more listening time!


----------



## obsidyen

twoears said:


> Have you heard the HD650? They are detailed and 100% non-fatiguing, not sure if the meridian will be able to power them properly.
> 
> Actually... let me check.... I have both...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Many people like HD 650 and 600 with just Explorer, apparently it can drive them well. I haven't heard the HD 650 but HD 800 seems so cool, and people say it sounds amazing so they kind of seemed like the king of all headphones to me.  I'd better take the Meridian Explorer with me, go to the Sennheiser dealer and try both of them. Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## amham

obsidyen said:


> I hate harsh treble, my ears are very sensitive. I'm going to be using Meridian Explorer as dac/amp. It's known as a smooth, liquid sounding, warm dac/amp. My favourite headphones are Sennheiser Momentums and Sennheiser IE800. I also have AKG Q 701 but I don't like them much, it sounds really harsh after 30 minutes. Do you think Sennheiser HD800 would be good for my tastes? I like Sennheiser sound more than others. You know that detailed, also somewhat laid back and a bit dark sound. I want detail but I don't want to hurt my ears for it. I'm not going to buy a new amp, Meridian Explorer's headphone out sounds great to me. Would you recommend HD 800?


 
 I share your sensitivity and have unloaded several HP's with irritating, harsh treble (Grado 325, Koss 950).  I did not expect to like the 800's given the general reviews here BUT they are now my favorite.  Yes, they are detailed but never harsh.  I find them the most natural sounding of several high end phones such as Audeze (LCD-3/LCD-X).  They are the most comfortable phones I own and I can wear them for long listening sessions without fatigue and, of course, they sound holographic compared to all others. Match them well with the proper DAC and amp and you will be very pleased.


----------



## frankrondaniel

obsidyen said:


> I hate harsh treble, my ears are very sensitive. I'm going to be using Meridian Explorer as dac/amp. It's known as a smooth, liquid sounding, warm dac/amp. My favourite headphones are Sennheiser Momentums and Sennheiser IE800. I also have AKG Q 701 but I don't like them much, it sounds really harsh after 30 minutes. Do you think Sennheiser HD800 would be good for my tastes? I like Sennheiser sound more than others. You know that detailed, also somewhat laid back and a bit dark sound. I want detail but I don't want to hurt my ears for it. I'm not going to buy a new amp, Meridian Explorer's headphone out sounds great to me. Would you recommend HD 800?


 
  
 I haven't used my Explorer in a while - your question prompted me to dust it off and try it with the HD800's.  It does remarkably well - certainly drives them to ear bleeding volumes.  I'm not sure the combination will give you a laid back and dark sound that you're looking for though.  The mellowness of the Meridian sound didn't counter the bright detailed sound of the HD800's to the degree that I expected.


----------



## obsidyen

frankrondaniel said:


> I haven't used my Explorer in a while - your question prompted me to dust it off and try it with the HD800's.  It does remarkably well - certainly drives them to ear bleeding volumes.  I'm not sure the combination will give you a laid back and dark sound that you're looking for though.  The mellowness of the Meridian sound didn't counter the bright detailed sound of the HD800's to the degree that I expected.


 

 I bought the Explorer because people said it was musical and non-clinical. I don't think it's that warm. It has a very crisp, clean analog/vinyl-like sound that is non-fatiguing but that doesn't mean it's not neutral. People mistake neutral with dry, analytical studio monitoring sound. Unless you're a mastering engineer, that's not the ideal way to listen to music. The Explorer actually sounds very real. When you listen to classical music, jazz etc. live, nothing sounds dry or clinical. Everything sounds lively and heartwarming.
  
 By ear bleeding volumes, do you mean the sound gets really loud or that the treble/sound becomes harsh and unlistenable?
  
 I'm not necessarily looking for a dark sound. For instance, IE800 are very easy to listen to. They're extremely revealing but they're also such a pleasure for my ears. They're not that dark, a bit warm perhaps. But smooth, liquid, lively sound would be good.


----------



## frankrondaniel

obsidyen said:


> I bought the Explorer because people said it was musical and non-clinical. I don't think it's that warm. It has a very crisp, clean analog/vinyl-like sound that is non-fatiguing but that doesn't mean it's not neutral. People mistake neutral with dry, analytical studio monitoring sound. Unless you're a mastering engineer, that's not the ideal way to listen to music. The Explorer actually sounds very real. When you listen to classical music, jazz etc. live, nothing sounds dry or clinical. Everything sounds lively and heartwarming.
> 
> By ear bleeding volumes, do you mean the sound gets really loud or that the treble/sound becomes harsh and unlistenable?
> 
> I'm not necessarily looking for a dark sound. For instance, IE800 are very easy to listen to. They're extremely revealing but they're also such a pleasure for my ears. They're not that dark, a bit warm perhaps. But smooth, liquid, lively sound would be good.


 
  
 By "ear bleeding volumes", I simply mean that it get's loud.  Certainly not harsh or unlistenable.  The smooth, liquid, lively sound that you describe still applies I think.


----------



## obsidyen

frankrondaniel said:


> By "ear bleeding volumes", I simply mean that it get's loud.  Certainly not harsh or unlistenable.  The smooth, liquid, lively sound that you describe still applies I think.


 

 Thanks, I guess HD800 is the one for me. Cause I don't want very dark, muddy sound either. I'll try them soon. It'll be quite an investment but at least I won't regret paying for them the way I do for Q701s. Cheap but bad.
  
 Some people say HD800s were slightly changed by Sennheiser, removing any harsh treble and also increasing bass quantity... Is that true? Does a 2010 HD800 sound different to an 2014 one?


----------



## Canadian411

obsidyen said:


> Thanks, I guess HD800 is the one for me. Cause I don't want very dark, muddy sound either. I'll try them soon. It'll be quite an investment but at least I won't regret paying for them the way I do for Q701s. Cheap but bad.
> 
> Some people say HD800s were slightly changed by Sennheiser, removing any harsh treble and also increasing bass quantity... Is that true? Does a 2010 HD800 sound different to an 2014 one?




I had 2 hd800 earlier one eith 19xxx serial and didn't like it that much. Now my new hd800 with 24xxx has better bass and smooth trebles.

People say it hasn't changed so I can be wrong. But I like the newer one better


----------



## obsidyen

canadian411 said:


> I had 2 hd800 earlier one eith 19xxx serial and didn't like it that much. Now my new hd800 with 24xxx has better bass and smooth trebles.
> 
> People say it hasn't changed so I can be wrong. But I like the newer one better


 

 Hmm... I'm sure they must have changed something then. HD 650 sound changed over the years.


----------



## Zoom25

obsidyen said:


> I bought the Explorer because people said it was musical and non-clinical. I don't think it's that warm. It has a very crisp, clean analog/vinyl-like sound that is non-fatiguing but that doesn't mean it's not neutral. *People mistake neutral with dry, analytical studio monitoring sound. Unless you're a mastering engineer, that's not the ideal way to listen to music.* The Explorer actually sounds very real. When you listen to classical music, jazz etc. live, nothing sounds dry or clinical. Everything sounds lively and heartwarming.
> 
> By ear bleeding volumes, do you mean the sound gets really loud or that the treble/sound becomes harsh and unlistenable?
> 
> I'm not necessarily looking for a dark sound. For instance, IE800 are very easy to listen to. They're extremely revealing but they're also such a pleasure for my ears. They're not that dark, a bit warm perhaps. But smooth, liquid, lively sound would be good.


 
 Are you saying that neutral, like in a studio, isn't the ideal way to listen to music?


----------



## amham

canadian411 said:


> obsidyen said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, I guess HD800 is the one for me. Cause I don't want very dark, muddy sound either. I'll try them soon. It'll be quite an investment but at least I won't regret paying for them the way I do for Q701s. Cheap but bad.
> ...


 
 As I stated, my pair of HD800's are detailed yet smooth with very neutral and strong bass.  Serial number 28xxx.  If they changed the tone I cannot say but the phones are  literally "holographic" to my ears.  Couple them with a nice Woo amp (any well regarded tube amp) and possibly a softer DAC (Grace 903 but a detailed DAC such as a Benchmark works too) and you have a fine match.


----------



## obsidyen

zoom25 said:


> Are you saying that neutral, like in a studio, isn't the ideal way to listen to music?


 
  
 Neutral as in dry sound which mastering engineers listen to in order to make the music sound good on speakers, headphones is not the ideal way to listen to music, not to me. It might be the ideal way to do mastering. It's not musical. I know many people here like that sound. I don't. Head-fiers may not care about hi-fi setups but I have an alright hi-fi setup in my living room, Hegel H80 amplifier, Hegel CDP4A cd player, KEF R500 speakers. This is good stuff and they sound amazingly musical. KEF R series has amazing bass but also clear treble, superb mids. No, nothing sounds dry. It's neutral and musical. Not neutral and dry.
  
 These are only my thoughts. I know more about hi-fi than headphones. But it seems lots of headphone enthusiasts prefer dry sound thinking it's magical. I disagree.


----------



## TwoEars

I very much like my HD800's. It's my #1 headphone and I've owned or tried pretty much everything except Stax.
  
 But I will be realistic and say that the HD800 probably isn't for you. All things considered the HD800 is on the dry and holographic side of things.
  
 If you want smooth and organic best look at HD600/650, LCD-2/3/X or Hifiman HE-500/HE-6.


----------



## James-uk

twoears said:


> I very much like my HD800's. It's my #1 headphone and I've owned or tried pretty much everything except Stax.
> 
> But I will be realistic and say that the HD800 probably isn't for you. All things considered the HD800 is on the dry and holographic side of things.
> 
> If you want smooth and organic best look at HD600/650, LCD-2/3/X or Hifiman HE-500/HE-6.



I agree , I'm listening to HD600s now and they sound wonderful!


----------



## amham

twoears said:


> I very much like my HD800's. It's my #1 headphone and I've owned or tried pretty much everything except Stax.
> 
> But I will be realistic and say that the HD800 probably isn't for you. All things considered the HD800 is on the dry and holographic side of things.
> 
> If you want smooth and organic best look at HD600/650, LCD-2/3/X or Hifiman HE-500/HE-6.


 
 Excellent advice!


----------



## kugino

twoears said:


> I very much like my HD800's. It's my #1 headphone and I've owned or tried pretty much everything except Stax.
> 
> But I will be realistic and say that the HD800 probably isn't for you. All things considered the HD800 is on the dry and holographic side of things.
> 
> If you want smooth and organic best look at HD600/650, LCD-2/3/X or Hifiman HE-500/HE-6.


 
 i have the hd800 and love them for various recordings. but for fun and every-day listening, i still love my d7000. i had the alpha dogs and while they were good, they didn't come close to the d7000, IMO. one person's opinion, of course. i'm trying to get used to my he-500, too, but find that it's great with female vocals, but so far it sounds a bit narrow/compressed to me. need more time with them.


----------



## punit

kugino said:


> i'm trying to get used to my he-500, too, but find that it's great with female vocals, but so far it sounds a bit narrow/compressed to me. need more time with them.


 
 Please try the grill mod, really opens up the sound stage
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/619447/hifiman-regrilling-mod


----------



## LugBug1

^^^ plus the HE500 may be low impedance but they aren't the most sensitive (compared to the HD800) and they like lots of power to open up. I would seriously consider a vintage integrate/receiver to fuel them. It can be a cheap experiment.


----------



## SONYES

HI 
 I HAVE  HD800  159XX
 VERY VERY OPEN
 MY FREIND  HAVE  122XX
  
 WE COMPER  WHIT LUXMAN P=1U   ONE WEEK AGO
  
 WE FOUND  THAT  THE OLDER  HD800
  
 HAS  LITEL MORE CLER MID /HI  LASS HARSH DIGITAL  UP SOUND !!!
  
 AND
 MY  HD 800  HAVE MORE OPEN  TO ALL DERCTIOS  ALL RECORDINGS HAS ALL THE WAY UP
  
 WHEN THE RECORDING IS HARSH   IN MY HD   800  NO  159XX  IS MORE OPEN 
  
 HIS 
 IS MORE  ANALOG  
  
  SO 
 I HAVE RED  THAT  FROM 24000  THAY HAVE  DEFERNT  GEAF  IN HD800
  
 DO  ALL ONERS  OF HD800  HAVE  ALL THE WAY UP SOUND 
  
 I HAVE ALSO T1  FROM THIS WEK IT SOUND VERY VERY GOOD 
  
 I MADE  CABEL MOD


----------



## BournePerfect

AB, CD goldfish?
 LMNO goldfish!
 SMR2 goldfish-CMPN?!
  
 -toodles


----------



## Sonido

^ Broken caps lock keyboard ftw! Checking his profile proves this 

Nimzerz


----------



## LugBug1

Bless..


----------



## Zoom25

obsidyen said:


> Neutral as in dry sound which mastering engineers listen to in order to make the music sound good on speakers, headphones is not the ideal way to listen to music, not to me. It might be the ideal way to do mastering. It's not musical. I know many people here like that sound. I don't. Head-fiers may not care about hi-fi setups but I have an alright hi-fi setup in my living room, Hegel H80 amplifier, Hegel CDP4A cd player, KEF R500 speakers. This is good stuff and they sound amazingly musical. KEF R series has amazing bass but also clear treble, superb mids. No, nothing sounds dry. It's neutral and musical. Not neutral and dry.
> 
> These are only my thoughts. I know more about hi-fi than headphones. But it seems lots of headphone enthusiasts prefer dry sound thinking it's magical. I disagree.


 
  


> Neutral as in dry sound which mastering engineers listen to in order to make the music sound good on speakers


 
 Neutral can't be wet or dry. I think the main reason why people keep associating studio gear with dry is not actually based on the speakers performance but rather the room. Most people usually listen to their speakers in room. So by the nature of the typical rectangular room, you're going to get lot of reflections and just get accustomed to a wet sound. Put monitors in an untreated room and  you get the same thing but to a lesser extent. My room is pretty tight with only a minor wet sound.
  


> headphones is not the ideal way to listen to music, not to me.  It might be the ideal way to do mastering.


 
 Agreed. Speakers throw a better centerstage as well as a sound coming from the front. The HD800 in this regard are probably the best compromise I've heard to date. People only use headphones for bass checks or monitoring. Mixing purely on headphones is annoying as hell.
  


> It's not musical.


 
 More on that later.
  


> Head-fiers may not care about hi-fi setups but I have an alright hi-fi setup in my living room, Hegel H80 amplifier, Hegel CDP4A cd player, KEF R500 speakers. This is good stuff and they sound amazingly musical. KEF R series has amazing bass but also clear treble, superb mids.


 
 I thought head-fi is mostly for hifi setups.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gearslutz is more for studio stuff. I don't know about your Hegel stuff but I have extensively heard all the Q series and the R series as well as the LS50 and I definitely agree that the R series is pretty decent. I like them a lot more over the PSB stuff.
  
  


> It's neutral and musical. Not neutral and dry.


 
   
  

  
 If neutrality is done right, it will not be wet or dry. Regarding musical factor, that's preference I suppose.
  
 The reason why I love studio gear is because it does neutral the proper way. So not just having a neutral FR but ALSO having a neutral presentation. I think the latter is equally as important and is something that usually gets lost. I've heard gear that sounds neutral but the presentation is either way too laid back or too forward in your face. If a gear can do the FR and the presentation down the middle, it allows for a very easy going, unforced, relaxed, yet still full of life and dynamics experience. I rarely get tired of listening to any of my studio gear for this reason. Music sound like music because it doesn't try to throw an artificial boost in any aspect of the sound or the way it fills up the room.
  
 If a gear is neutral in sound but presents a forward sound (think Marantz), it's obviously going to suck the air out and make it sound dry and warm. I had this experience with Bryston and NAD (to a lesser extent).


----------



## obsidyen

zoom25 said:


> Neutral can't be wet or dry. I think the main reason why people keep associating studio gear with dry is not actually based on the speakers performance but rather the room. Most people usually listen to their speakers in room. So by the nature of the typical rectangular room, you're going to get lot of reflections and just get accustomed to a wet sound. Put monitors in an untreated room and  you get the same thing but to a lesser extent. My room is pretty tight with only a minor wet sound.
> 
> Agreed. Speakers throw a better centerstage as well as a sound coming from the front. The HD800 in this regard are probably the best compromise I've heard to date. People only use headphones for bass checks or monitoring. Mixing purely on headphones is annoying as hell.
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, head-fi is also a type of hifi, you're right. English is not my mother tounge so sometimes I make mistakes. I meant amplifier+speakers+etc...
  
 In speaker terms, you know Adam Audio or Focal monitoring speakers. Now these are for music production purposes. But some consumers like that sound, even though most audiophiles do not. I'm not trying to belittle people who use monitors just for listening to music. But go to a high-end store, and you'll see lots of guys trying to buy the most neutral yet at the same time musical speakers. Of course, the pricier the better. For instance, I listened to a pair of Sonus Faber Aidas last week (I went to buy the Meridian Explorer, the same dealer was selling high-end stuff). A rich guy was auditioning them, asked if I could accompany him and he accepted (I guess you gotta be rich to even audition them). They were absolutely amazing. I felt my heart pounding whilst listening to them. But then I tried to erase the memory so that I'd love my KEFs again.
  
 Hegel is a Norwegian audio company, their products are very good. Look up Hegel Super, you might like it.


----------



## obsidyen

twoears said:


> I very much like my HD800's. It's my #1 headphone and I've owned or tried pretty much everything except Stax.
> 
> But I will be realistic and say that the HD800 probably isn't for you. All things considered the HD800 is on the dry and holographic side of things.
> 
> If you want smooth and organic best look at HD600/650, LCD-2/3/X or Hifiman HE-500/HE-6.


 

 Thanks. I'll still try them though. I love my Sennheiser IE800s. I was hoping to hear a similar sound signature.


----------



## kugino

punit said:


> Please try the grill mod, really opens up the sound stage
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/619447/hifiman-regrilling-mod


 
 thanks for the link...i'll take a look.


----------



## kugino

lugbug1 said:


> ^^^ plus the HE500 may be low impedance but they aren't the most sensitive (compared to the HD800) and they like lots of power to open up. I would seriously consider a vintage integrate/receiver to fuel them. It can be a cheap experiment.


 
 i'm running them balanced through a yulong a28...should be more than enough power. i also have run them out of some 8W tube monoblocks via the speaker taps, but i need to add some resistors as there was way too much background noise (and also b/c it's probably better for the amps). i want to like them...but it has to really hold my attention for me to keep them, especially considering how freakin' heavy they are!


----------



## magiccabbage

obsidyen said:


> Neutral as in dry sound which mastering engineers listen to in order to make the music sound good on speakers, headphones is not the ideal way to listen to music, not to me. It might be the ideal way to do mastering. It's not musical. I know many people here like that sound. I don't. Head-fiers may not care about hi-fi setups but I have an alright hi-fi setup in my living room, Hegel H80 amplifier, Hegel CDP4A cd player, KEF R500 speakers. This is good stuff and they sound amazingly musical. KEF R series has amazing bass but also clear treble, superb mids. No, nothing sounds dry. It's neutral and musical. Not neutral and dry.
> 
> These are only my thoughts. I know more about hi-fi than headphones. But it seems lots of headphone enthusiasts prefer dry sound thinking it's magical. I disagree.


 
 I have heard the Keff R500 through a Nice Rotel amp (my friend owns this system) and don't think it compares to even my WA2/HD800. Most people will disagree with me here but i think you have to scale much higher in a HIfi system with a treated room to compare to a good HD800 rig. 
  
 All of this crap about MidFi speaker setups are much better than HD800 rigs are exactly that - crap. I just will not agree on this. I have heard the Keff R500 for long listening sessions many many times and my HD800 rig kicks its ass (IMO).


----------



## icebear

obsidyen said:


> Yes, head-fi is also a type of hifi, you're right. English is not my mother tounge so sometimes I make mistakes. I meant amplifier+speakers+etc...
> 
> In speaker terms, you know Adam Audio or Focal monitoring speakers. Now these are for music production purposes. But some consumers like that sound, even though most audiophiles do not. I'm not trying to belittle people who use monitors just for listening to music. But go to a high-end store, and you'll see lots of guys trying to buy the most neutral yet at the same time musical speakers. Of course, the pricier the better. *For instance, I listened to a pair of Sonus Faber Aidas last week (I went to buy the Meridian Explorer, the same dealer was selling high-end stuff). A rich guy was auditioning them, asked if I could accompany him and he accepted (I guess you gotta be rich to even audition them). *They were absolutely amazing. I felt my heart pounding whilst listening to them. But then I tried to erase the memory so that I'd love my KEFs again.
> 
> Hegel is a Norwegian audio company, their products are very good. Look up Hegel Super, you might like it.


 
 A while back, on a different continent, I had a rare chance to listen to these buddies :
 http://www.sonusfaber.com/ContentsFiles%5Chi-fi_news_02-11.PDF
 They were powered by Krell KRA monos and a Krell dual preamp set up. Source was also Krell CD player and a high rez media player (can't remember the brand).
 Cables most likely Nordost (some flat stuff...)
 It was a session at the importer's showroom with access only, if you came in with an authorized dealer with prior appointment with time slot.
 After the audition for potential customers (that obviously excluded me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), I asked if they could play some of my CD's, which they did. Anne Bisson "Blue Mind", some tracks from Cassandra Wilson "Blue light til dawn", Carlos Santana, live ("Abraxas" bonus tracks) and Brahms Violin Concerto, Allegro, Henryk Szeryng, A. Dorati, London S.O. Mercury.
  
 To cut it short, as this is the HD800 thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 : I was not at all impressed. At least in this combination there was no magic, no feeling, no goosebumps. It was like a heavy weight sumo or bodybuilder was trying to run. Maybe the amps were more busy heating up the non air conditioned room ( 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ! ) than providing music to the speakers.
  
 As always it's the synergy more than just the combination of excellent pieces taken out of context. I guess these were built as a technology showpiece more than anything else. The above link was the only review I could find. Maybe that's just because of the rarity of these speakers. The importer had 2 pairs ... one at home and one in his showroom, at least at that time.


----------



## purrin

zoom25 said:


> If neutrality is done right, it will not be wet or dry. Regarding musical factor, that's preference I suppose.


 
  
 Yep, it's amazing how many people have this mistaken notion that neutral studio setups sound dry or analytical. The HD800 is brighter and more analytical than most every studio setup that I've heard. Oh the irony.


----------



## SONYES

I SOLD  LAST YAER
  
 SONY  SCD-1 +TAE-1{XLR}
 LUXMAN M-05+ C05 DUAL MONO CLASS A 105W RMS 
 YAMAHA NS1000M
 VDH CABELS C-12
  
 TODAY
 I MOVED TO  DENON -PMA-2000IVR
 TANOY MERCUEY V4
 SONY ES PLAYERS 
  
 AND RETURN TO 
 MY OLD  HOBY
  
 i get fantastic   sound  as good and more then the hi end  seystm before !!!!
  
 MUSIC  !!!  very very intment
  
 EARPHONS   HD800/P-1U
  
  
 i had aslo denon d-7000/akg k702/340 /hd600/hd580
  
 more and more  i lesen by haedphons  so i sold al my hi end 
  
 moved to big screen 120" +vplhw30es
  
 in hi fi mostely  
  
 hd800/t1  LUXMAN P-1U /LEEHMAN BCL
  
 BEST REGAEDS


----------



## 62ohm

Seriously mate what's up with the caps lock lol


----------



## LugBug1

kugino said:


> i'm running them balanced through a yulong a28...should be more than enough power. i also have run them out of some 8W tube monoblocks via the speaker taps, but i need to add some resistors as there was way too much background noise (and also b/c it's probably better for the amps). i want to like them...but it has to really hold my attention for me to keep them, especially considering how freakin' heavy they are!


 
 Yeah that should defo be enough juice! I liked them but I never had any 'wow' moments like I have had with the HD800. Of course, its not all about 'wow' as long as you are enjoying the music.. But I agree, they always seemed a little compressed and narrow - especially when compared to the Senn's. They do have a lovely tone however and I thought they did piano, Jazz, chamber music really well. 
  
 I think that anyone who already owns the HD800 can only be a little underwhelmed with the HE500. It's too similar in balance and tone, only much smaller sounding and not as tight at the bottom. I think the LCD2 can offer a better contrast/compliment in the price range in regards to planar.
  
 and yes... Then there's the weight issue.. Us head-fiers wear our ear armoury 24 hours a day... We need comfort!!


----------



## LugBug1

sonyes said:


> I SOLD  LAST YAER
> 
> SONY  SCD-1 +TAE-1{XLR}
> LUXMAN M-05+ C05 DUAL MONO CLASS A 105W RMS
> ...


 
 Thats some great gear you've got there. You also have great taste in music too!


----------



## obsidyen

magiccabbage said:


> I have heard the Keff R500 through a Nice Rotel amp (my friend owns this system) and don't think it compares to even my WA2/HD800. Most people will disagree with me here but i think you have to scale much higher in a HIfi system with a treated room to compare to a good HD800 rig.
> 
> All of this crap about MidFi speaker setups are much better than HD800 rigs are exactly that - crap. I just will not agree on this. I have heard the Keff R500 for long listening sessions many many times and my HD800 rig kicks its ass (IMO).


 

 I agree. Thousand dollar headphones is always going to sound better than thousand dollar speakers. What speakers don't have though, is harsh sound (except studio monitor speakers which are used in music production).  This is why I dislike AKG Q 701s. They're dry and boring sounding, as they are for music production. Some people say they sound good with tube amps, well guess what, it sounds good because you colour the sound and make it warmer. There's no neutrality anymore. Tube amps always give the headphones/music a warmer touch. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against tube amps or colouring the sound if that's what you like, but it's a not a neutral sound you'd hear anymore.
  
 Teac HA-501 amp, which a friend of mine has, is a really neutral amp, but also very musical. You can hear Q701s for what they are on that amp. Boring and dry professional headphones. Sennheiser Momentums sound very musical and engaging. I might buy that amp actually, it's really good. Pair it with Meridian Explorer...


----------



## SONYES

LUGBUG 1
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 THANK YOU 
 ALL 
 THIS IS WHAT IS LEFT FROM 
  
 3 MUSIC ROOMS THAT   UESD
  
  
 I WELL UP LOUD  
 THANK YOU


----------



## akhyar

^ ^
Seriously dude, please tone down the use of CAPITAL LETTERS in your post!


----------



## SONYES

ok
  
 thank you 
 this way?????
 small leters


----------



## magiccabbage

akhyar said:


> ^ ^
> Seriously dude, please tone down the use of CAPITAL LETTERS in your post!


 
 Relax. They are only letters. does that really bother you?


----------



## James-uk

purrin said:


> Yep, it's amazing how many people have this mistaken notion that neutral studio setups sound dry or analytical. The HD800 is brighter and more analytical than most every studio setup that I've heard. Oh the irony.



Which headphone do you think is the closest to neutral? Do you think sr-009 is bright?


----------



## TwoEars

I agree, very cool collection of gear you had there.
  
 I always like when there's a collection of new and old like that. HD800 and some 70's recievers, mixed with vinvyl player and luxman amp. Very nice.
  
 Bit of a shame you got rid of it all but maybe you didn't use it enough?


----------



## SONYES

I HAED 
 ALL THE  UP THE POST 
 NS1000M  LUXMAN 05M+C
 SONY SCD-1
  
 TODAY  I HER AND FELL THAT I IN THE COCERT HELL
 WHITE  
  HD800
 T1
 NEW TO ME 1 WEEK  ONLY IT IS VERY VERY GOOD 
 sory  small letters


----------



## elvergun

magiccabbage said:


> Relax. They are only letters. does that really bother you?



LOL...relax, does that akhyar's post really bother you?


----------



## SilverEars

akhyar said:


> ^ ^
> Seriously dude, please tone down the use of CAPITAL LETTERS in your post!


 


sonyes said:


> I HAED
> ALL THE  UP THE POST
> NS1000M  LUXMAN 05M+C
> SONY SCD-1
> ...


----------



## SONYES

i well tray best next - sory
  
 thank you


----------



## magiccabbage

elvergun said:


> LOL...relax, does that akhyar's post really bother you?


 
NO .....


----------



## TwoEars

Perhaps he was just trying to be nice and aid your aging eyes?


----------



## skeptic

Studies have concluded that reading comprehension decreases when things are written in allcaps.  So its a great way _not_ to get your point across while also being incredibly ugly.  FTW!


----------



## Mortalcoil

LOL at the above few posts....all in good fun.
  
 Obviously SONYES  is new to Head-fi and the English language,  lets all try and cut the brother some slack.
  
 Welcome to Head-Fi SONYES !


----------



## punit

> Welcome to Head-Fi SONYES !


 
 I would have added "sorry for your wallet" but looks like his wallet was already sorry before joining Head-Fi


----------



## SONYES

MORTALCIL
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 THANK YOU FOR YOU GERTINGS 
  
 yes iam very new her . and my english is bad . i am so so sory for that.
  
 but i tollek  and read very very good - 
  
 thank you agien  evert one for have much pecent
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 best regrds 
  
 sonyes


----------



## Mortalcoil

punit said:


> I would have added "sorry for your wallet" but looks like his wallet was already sorry before joining Head-Fi


 
  
 True LOL !
  


sonyes said:


> MORTALCIL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Cheers brother


----------



## SONYES

we allwys look for thre beter  cd-amp-hedphon
  
 so it is very much good iilnes
  
 music 
 gast naw i get 60 cds
  
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00GP8YHAU/ref=shptrk_scth
  
 and geting more as this 
  
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003Z9Q4WG/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  
 it is well whiout end
  
 last week  T1  to my best hd800+p-1u


----------



## Mortalcoil

Spending $$ on music is always a good thing.


----------



## 62ohm

mortalcoil said:


> Spending $$ on music is always a good thing.


 
  
 Sometimes I can't help but wonder what rig could I get if I had saved my annual expenditure for music.. Of course, that would defeat the purpose of getting the rig in the first place lol


----------



## TwoEars

62ohm said:


> Sometimes I can't help but wonder what rig could I get if I had saved my annual expenditure for music.. Of course, that would defeat the purpose of getting the rig in the first place lol


 
  
 That's sort of like speculating what kind of supercar you could have bought if you hadn't bought any gas for you mustang. Interesting to think about maybe but entirely pointless.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

twoears said:


> That's sort of like speculating what kind of supercar you could have bought if you hadn't bought any gas for you mustang. Interesting to think about maybe but entirely pointless.




Hahahaha amazing analogy


----------



## obsidyen

...


----------



## kugino

Moral of this story? Buy the headphones that make you happy. Congrats on finding something that does that.


----------



## pearljam50000

Is there any chance Amazon will sell them at a discount again, or was it just a one time thing?


----------



## Buddhahacker

I think the consensus is that the five second sale at ~$890 was a one time mistake.  However, I just picked up a used set that was perfect for ~$1,100 no warranty but you have a 30 day return. Senn is selling refurbished for around ~$1,270 with 90 day warranty.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Although it will be a chase to try and find the best amp for the hd800. The price for them is almost a bargain 
At list price. And for me the HDVD 800 as amp only is end game for these headphones anyway .
In balance mode anyway. Is anyone hear useing the senn amp ? 
Al


----------



## kugino

buddhahacker said:


> I think the consensus is that the five second sale at ~$890 was a one time mistake.  However, I just picked up a used set that was perfect for ~$1,100 no warranty but you have a 30 day return. Senn is selling refurbished for around ~$1,270 with 90 day warranty.


 
 yeah. won't see new prices that low again. but the used market is slowly coming down. i also got one for $1100 that is absolutely mint, and i've seen it advertised for cheaper in the f/s forum.


----------



## rydenfan

I just got a brand new pair for $1,200 from a local dealer. Felt like a good deal to me


----------



## Canadian411

I bought mine (new) around $1290 cad dollar on black Friday.

Wait for xmas or national sale day if you can


----------



## TwoEars

Sounds like good deals to me.


----------



## Zoom25

canadian411 said:


> I bought mine (new) around $1290 cad dollar on black Friday.
> 
> Wait for xmas or national sale day if you can


 
  
 From that special showroom place where you have that card from?


----------



## Canadian411

From bay bloor radio.
But truth is when you call any headphone store and ask for an insane price they will give you the best Deal.

For example, I called ncix and ask t1 for $720 CAD including tax and shipping
they cpunter offered for $999.

And we settle for $899. 

Always try to make some deal.


----------



## Dionysus

canadian411 said:


> From bay bloor radio.
> But truth is when you call any headphone store and ask for an insane price they will give you the best Deal.
> 
> For example, I called ncix and ask t1 for $720 CAD including tax and shipping
> ...




Agreed I just recently purchased my HDVD800 Amp/DAC new for 1699 negotiated, and my HD800 for $1299. I made multiple calls to different online resellers and went with the best price, mom always ask, you never know.


----------



## Zoom25

I thought Sennheiser was getting strict with their pricing now. For around $1200-$1300, I might as well consider it new.


----------



## Canadian411

Ya get it from canada if you can since canadian dollar is weak.


----------



## Zoom25

Yeah CAD has been ****. Making buying from US useless for the last few months. In the meanwhile, I've been messing with colorware and and came up with these three variations:
  
 A) http://www.colorware.com/showproduct.aspx?ProductID=289&SEName=sennheiser-hd-800&c=3en-254qg%7C3eo-257pm%7C3ep-259yg%7C3eq-25ckg%7C3er-25fjg
  
 B) http://www.colorware.com/showproduct.aspx?ProductID=289&SEName=sennheiser-hd-800&c=3en-254qg%7C3eo-256wm%7C3ep-259yg%7C3eq-25ckg%7C3er-25epg
  
 C) http://www.colorware.com/showproduct.aspx?ProductID=289&SEName=sennheiser-hd-800&c=3en-254qg%7C3eo-257pm%7C3ep-259yg%7C3eq-25ckg%7C3er-25epg
  
  
 I tried to pick something different than the red, blue, black and white common design. Only changing the colour of the mesh and the hinge. Both A and B use the same colour for both pieces while C uses one of each.
  
 I like A and C over B. Just something for fun now. Might pursue it down the road after auditioning the HE-560 when they become available along with Stax.
  
 EDIT: Just realized I didn't touch the gloss vs matte settings. Matte will probably better suit those colours.


----------



## sathyam

Called and got the Auralic Vega and Taurus for $4500 with shipping included. Got my HD800 for $1250.


----------



## Chodi

sathyam said:


> Called and got the Auralic Vega and Taurus for $4500 with shipping included. Got my HD800 for $1250.


 
 Now you need to get some balanced cable for your new HD800's and you are all set.


----------



## sathyam

chodi said:


> Now you need to get some balanced cable for your new HD800's and you are all set.




Complement3 already on the way


----------



## LugBug1

zoom25 said:


> Yeah CAD has been ****. Making buying from US useless for the last few months. In the meanwhile, I've been messing with colorware and and came up with these three variations:
> 
> A) http://www.colorware.com/showproduct.aspx?ProductID=289&SEName=sennheiser-hd-800&c=3en-254qg%7C3eo-257pm%7C3ep-259yg%7C3eq-25ckg%7C3er-25fjg
> 
> ...


 
 I like the direction your going here. It gives them a kind of retro look. For my preference I like 'B' the colors are more subtle and blend nicely. I like the others too, but I'm not sure how contrasting that brown will look in real life.


----------



## Widell

Just ordered HD800 from below
  
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SALE-BRAND-NEW-SENNHEISER-HD800-HD-800-DYNMIC-OPEN-BACK-STEREO-HEADPHONE-/221363074087?pt=AU_headphone&hash=item338a447427
  
 Additional usd60 for customs and usd 50 in S&H still in total below usd1200 seems to be decent deal...
  
 only "need" the Taurus and Vega + balanced cable on I would be good to go for a while.....


----------



## Chodi

widell said:


> Just ordered HD800 from below
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SALE-BRAND-NEW-SENNHEISER-HD800-HD-800-DYNMIC-OPEN-BACK-STEREO-HEADPHONE-/221363074087?pt=AU_headphone&hash=item338a447427
> 
> ...


 
 That is an excellent price! I am surprised the Senn police haven't cut their throats. Rarely seen a better bargain.


----------



## Widell

Me too, that is why my Credit card is smoking....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just could not let it pass...


----------



## Priidik

magiccabbage said:


> I have heard the Keff R500 through a Nice Rotel amp (my friend owns this system) and don't think it compares to even my WA2/HD800. Most people will disagree with me here but i think you have to scale much higher in a HIfi system with a treated room to compare to a good HD800 rig.
> 
> All of this crap about MidFi speaker setups are much better than HD800 rigs are exactly that - crap. I just will not agree on this. I have heard the Keff R500 for long listening sessions many many times and my HD800 rig kicks its ass (IMO).


 
 I agree to a point and wanted to add some:
  
 I get to this argument with my friends a lot and it seems for some the speaker presentation is a must.
 Most problems with speakers above mid-fi are from room effects. Even top tier speakers (save for some dipole designs perhaps, which i have yet to hear) can not scale above great headphone setups in a regular room. 
 In my poor bedroom  my speaker rig is only good for watching youtube videos. Even mid-fi in ears sound better here for me.
 Things change drastically when i move the speakers to my listening room.
    
 Although i have not heard these particular Keff speakers i have to say my own TOTL speaker setup in treated room leaves any headphone rigs i have heard very far behind. And i consider myself a ''headphones guy''.
 For HD800 defence I think HD800 can extract a bit more details in upper registers than my speaker rig and i do not yet have amping requirement quite met with HD800.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Very good statements from both of you. As I am all three major audio groups CIEM,s headphones and speakers. Well setup good speakers blows away headphones but not in every way. 
Speakers give you real staging in ways headphones do not. Speakers give you effects of the studio or venue that headphones do not . But there is details that head ones may give you that speakers do not. Now given a cheap rig is far below a cheap headphone rig. So in the end you can spend say 5 K on a really good headphone rig. And if with speakers that is nothing . When evaluating our equipment we should use both headphones and speakers to complete a more rounded pic of the sound. 
May I Recomend the HDVD600. Fro the hd 800. It is the best I have heard yet those headphones 
Al


----------



## Dionysus

Al, picked up a slightly used Perfectwave DAC MKI with the bridge for 500.00 wow my HD800 / HDVD800 never sounded better, it's an amazing combo.


----------



## magiccabbage

priidik said:


> I agree to a point and wanted to add some:
> 
> I get to this argument with my friends a lot and it seems for some the speaker presentation is a must.
> Most problems with speakers above mid-fi are from room effects. Even top tier speakers (save for some dipole designs perhaps, which i have yet to hear) can not scale above great headphone setups in a regular room.
> ...


 
 I have never heard a truly high end speaker rig in a treated room before but i can imagine that it would sound amazing.


----------



## Dionysus

amberlight said:


> Wow I am happy for you. The hd800 and the hdvd800 is a amazing combo
> The DAC is the week link and you have moved on to
> A really good setup. In own the pwd mkii it's pretty good too
> Enjoy it.
> Al




Thank you very much and I thought it sounded really well which it does! but the level of increased sound quality with the Perfectwave DAC is really on a whole other level.


----------



## Zoom25

lugbug1 said:


> I like the direction your going here. It gives them a kind of retro look. For my preference I like 'B' the colors are more subtle and blend nicely. I like the others too, but I'm not sure how contrasting that brown will look in real life.


 
 LOL yup you're right. B does look better this morning. I came up with it last night on my older 2010 Macbook pro and the colours made the others seem better. On my newer Retina version today, B definitely looks more fitting. I guess I should find someone with a high end calibrated screen if I do order one.
  
 I hope the colours turn out well in real life and as suggested on website..


----------



## pearljam50000

widell said:


> Me too, that is why my Credit card is smoking....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The seller is located in Hong Kong, aren't you worried?


----------



## TwoEars

magiccabbage said:


> I have never heard a truly high end speaker rig in a treated room before but i can imagine that it would sound amazing.


 
  
 It doesn't even have to be that high end.
  
 Magnepan 1.7 and an Odyssey Khartago amp will make most so called high-end systems sound like an overpriced joke.
  
 A system like that won't have any bottom end grunt but the tonality, soundstage and coherence is going to be very hard to beat. If you listen to light classical music it's a TOTL system.
  
 Of course, you need a good room to place them in or they will only play at maybe 30-50% of their potential...
  
  
 Also - people seem to be on a buying spree? Happy days, killers systems coming up by the looks of it


----------



## Widell

Normally I would not buy from Hong Kong via Ebay, but the seller is DWI which is an Australian retailer selling electronics online, I contacted them as their price for the HD800 was very good, however the told me that they could only ship within Australia if purchased via their online store but advised me that they did sell via Ebay Australia which shipped from Hong Kong.....
  
 As they are a company and not a private person and they have sold 12 already and have 99.5% positive feedback out of 23953 sales and I paid via Paypal I felt relatively safe so I took the chance..... no guarantees though.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Will let you all know if I am getting ripped off or if I will be a happy camper.....


----------



## Chodi

pearljam50000 said:


> The seller is located in Hong Kong, aren't you worried?


 
 I buy from Hong Kong all the time without any problem. Have you been there? It is not the Hong Kong of old. The shopping centers and shops spell of wealth and the stores are full of buyers. I would trust a shop there before many other places.


----------



## TwoEars

I'm sure it's fine. I buy from asia all the time on ebay and never had any problems, not even from private sellers. And that paypal guarantee is very good for buyers, it's a PITA if you're a seller because people have been known to abuse it. But it's good if you're a buyer since paypal almost always settles disputes in favor of the buyer.


----------



## superjawes

Excuse me...I'm going to cut up my credit card before I make an impulsive purchase...I really want a pair of 800's, but I think I'm going to get a solid DAC first, and my wife would not approve of a >$1,000 purcahse right now.

Wrt speakers, the most experience I have is from AXPONA this year. Probably not the best example of how good speakers can sound, but when you put all of these speakers in the same room (essentially...they were all hotel rooms), it definitely kills the difference between your $3,000 speakers and your $10,000 speakers.

I'll probably eventually get a good speaker setup, but it will be with the ~$3,000 speakers, and will be after I buy a house...and pay off my car...


----------



## superjawes

There are still a few scams operating out of Hong Kong these days (I know of someone who got a bootlegged controller just a few weeks ago). I am sure that most of the purchases are fine, but I would still stick close to sites and services that will get your money back just in case. Sales through Amazon, for example, will be corrected, and Paypal should help you out, as TwoEars mentioned.


----------



## PleasantSounds

twoears said:


> I'm sure it's fine. I buy from asia all the time on ebay and never had any problems, not even from private sellers. And that paypal guarantee is very good for buyers, it's a PITA if you're a seller because people have been known to abuse it. But it's good if you're a buyer since paypal almost always settles disputes in favor of the buyer.


 
  
 Have you actually tried to dispute any Paypal payments? I did when I received a pirated copy of software I bought. Paypal upheld the transaction...
  
 Those guarantees look good on paper, but they don't always work as they should.


----------



## Priidik

alrainbow said:


> Very good statements from both of you. As I am all three major audio groups CIEM,s headphones and speakers. Well setup good speakers blows away headphones but not in every way.
> Speakers give you real staging in ways headphones do not. Speakers give you effects of the studio or venue that headphones do not . But there is details that head ones may give you that speakers do not. Now given a cheap rig is far below a cheap headphone rig. So in the end you can spend say 5 K on a really good headphone rig. And if with speakers that is nothing . When evaluating our equipment we should use both headphones and speakers to complete a more rounded pic of the sound.
> May I Recomend the HDVD600. Fro the hd 800. It is the best I have heard yet those headphones
> Al


 
 The shop where i bought my pair had HDVD800 and it sounded very good (with its own dac!), clearly better and a lot more relaxed sound than my current setup (DA8 xlr out).
 A few have said a thing or two in the direction that Questyle might be even better than HDVA600.
  
 I could use a quick sum-up between the most recommended SS options, HDVA600 (or HDVD800) Taurus MK2, GS-Xmk2 and Questyle CMA800R. 
  
 I know its not that easy to come up with, as few have even briefly heard all of these units.
 Right know i'm thinking of CMA800R, but if any of these others are clearly better, then i'd like to know.
  
 I have a under 5k speaker rig and its pretty TOTL although they go only down to ~28Hz, so in absolutes it will be totl after i add stereo subs.
 One can spend endless money on speakers/amps and get only mid-fi out of it. (granite housings, bling-bling materials here and there ..)
  
 Just came back home, had a walk and listened my 100$ IEM-s through Clip+ and thought what a value! Until i reached the HD800s..


----------



## TwoEars

Sure I have, I bought a DSLR camera with a non-working autofocus and paypal gave me back all my money so I was happy.
  
 The seller kept asking that I should have a qualified sevice tech look at it and so forth but I wasn't in the mood for that, I know how a DSLR camera works.


----------



## TwoEars

> Originally Posted by *Priidik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I could use a quick sum-up between the most recommended SS options, HDVA600 (or HDVD800) Taurus MK2, GS-Xmk2 and Questyle CMA800R.


 
  
 Look here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/u/51179/project86
  
 I rate this reviewers opinions very highly.


----------



## Canadian411

Don't you need 2 questyle to have balance hp output ? I never understood why only 1 3 pin xlr in front.

Maybe I don't really understand the amp.


----------



## Zoom25

Still haven't heard much about two CMA's in mono balanced mode with HD800 vs something like GS-X.


----------



## Zoom25

canadian411 said:


> Don't you need 2 questyle to have balance hp output ? I never understood why only 1 3 pin xlr in front.
> 
> Maybe I don't really understand the amp.


 
 Mono powerblocks essentially.


----------



## magiccabbage

twoears said:


> It doesn't even have to be that high end.
> 
> Magnepan 1.7 and an Odyssey Khartago amp will make most so called high-end systems sound like an overpriced joke.
> 
> ...


 
 I have only heard 2 set of electro static speakers and didn't like either of them. They were seriously missing meat.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Sorry amber light is my daughter Kim. 
And she does use my iPads or iPhones when she visits. 
Do the above posts are from me not her. 
Sorry 
Regarding ES the note thickness is a little thin as well


----------



## -kent-

Recently got my pair of HD800. After that I thought I should finally join this community. 
 (Since head-fi.org is one of the main reasons why my pockets are now empty )
  
 This are my beloved HD 800 <3
  

  
 If someone like the shot, I can give a direct link to my flickr page for high rez Wallpapers.
 I never heard better headphones than the HD800 before. I upgraded them from my HD 650 after more or less 7 years.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yes I to trust him and have read his reviews here and other sites .
Al


----------



## TwoEars

-kent- said:


> Recently got my pair of HD800. After that I thought I should finally join this community.
> (Since head-fi.org is one of the main reasons why my pockets are now empty )
> 
> This are my beloved HD 800 <3
> ...


 
  
 Welcome and sorry about your wallet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Also - the picture has potential but I'm not a big fan of the neon lights, I think it would look better without them...


----------



## -kent-

WA6 are my next target 
  
 Well, I take feedback, so just tell me what you would like. I guess I'll make a dark Wallpaper aswell. Besides the neon on the bottom everything is editable (the Neon on the bottom part is actually real... so...  )
  
 I used my desktop as the background. Here you can see the "neon light" in the back of my table:
  

  
 The HD800 are now standing on the left besides my Display


----------



## Mike F

Ha! When I first saw the picture I forgot for a moment that this is HeadFi and I thought that this was your listening / cinema room with a massive display and a life size statue. Then I saw the keyboard!


----------



## Sorrodje

mike f said:


> Ha! When I first saw the picture I forgot for a moment that this is HeadFi and I thought that this was your listening / cinema room with a massive display and a life size statue. Then I saw the keyboard!


 
  
 LOL +1 . " wow what's this strange carpet ? What it looks like a keyboard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "


----------



## kugino

mike f said:


> Ha! When I first saw the picture I forgot for a moment that this is HeadFi and I thought that this was your listening / cinema room with a massive display and a life size statue. Then I saw the keyboard!


 
  
  


sorrodje said:


> LOL +1 . " wow what's this strange carpet ? What it looks like a keyboard
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 crap...you guys almost made me spit out my food, i laughed so hard. that is an odd perspective photo...and that "life size statue" doesn't help. haha! good stuff.


----------



## -kent-

Nah, I wish this would be life size, but nope, it's my working Desk 
  
 Funny though, never saw it that way


----------



## 62ohm

Hi guys, I'm going to share something from my personal experience here and I hope I won't offend anyone. I've just picked up a second-hand pair of Beyers T1, and the best thing about it to me is every single time I switch from the T1 after some extended period of listening, I re-experience that 'wow-factor' I get when I first try out and bought the HD800. It has been half a year, I've begun to get used to the HD800 and it no longer gave me the same chills it used to give 6 months ago and now, I can experience it all over again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The HD800 felt so effortless in comparison, next up should be to upgrade my amp I guess. Sorry wallet, but I'm going to have to murder you...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I have had the t1 side by side with an hd800. It sis a clear can for sure but it does not give the level of details the hd800 does or have the note thickness either. When doing a side by side with the hd800 and a stax rig the stax gets the details 
But at the expense of the notes being a little thin. Some will say it lacks the bass compared to the hd800. But as it does it really is a cross the whole spectrum . If you want a all around can the hd800 is it. However if you want a can that sounds close to your speaker rig get a HE6. Either one is endgame but must be driven well. The hd800 is cheaper to obtain eutopia with. 
62ohm what amp do you have now ? Also what dac ?
Al


----------



## 62ohm

alrainbow said:


> I have had the t1 side by side with an hd800. It sis a clear can for sure but it does not give the level of details the hd800 does or have the note thickness either. When doing a side by side with the hd800 and a stax rig the stax gets the details
> But at the expense of the notes being a little thin. Some will say it lacks the bass compared to the hd800. But as it does it really is a cross the whole spectrum . If you want a all around can the hd800 is it. However if you want a can that sounds close to your speaker rig get a HE6. Either one is endgame but must be driven well. The hd800 is cheaper to obtain eutopia with.
> 62ohm what amp do you have now ? Also what dac ?
> Al


 
  
 Currently using a WA3 with DacMagic 100 here, nothing really fancy.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

The woo amps are good but need the tube,s rolled to something better and they come alive . Pm FRANKI 
I own a couple of woo amps one being the woo WA5. He helped me upgrade the tubes even though I had the upgraded tubes from woo. The amp was greatly improved as soon as the tubes got hot in about 30 mins. 

But I am glad you like the hd800 cans now. Enjoy them. 
Al


----------



## TwoEars

-kent- said:


> Nah, I wish this would be life size, but nope, it's my working Desk
> 
> Funny though, never saw it that way


 
  
 As a level 10 computer expert I also feel obligated to tell you that your monitor needs to be bigger! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I could never stand working on such a small monitor, I have one 27-inch and one 24-inch display at my working desk.
  
 The more working deskspace the better! Plus you can keep head-fi, foobar2000, internet tv or youtube open on one display if you have nothing better going on....


----------



## PleasantSounds

62ohm said:


> Hi guys, I'm going to share something from my personal experience here and I hope I won't offend anyone. I've just picked up a second-hand pair of Beyers T1, and the best thing about it to me is every single time I switch from the T1 after some extended period of listening, I re-experience that 'wow-factor' I get when I first try out and bought the HD800. It has been half a year, I've begun to get used to the HD800 and it no longer gave me the same chills it used to give 6 months ago and now, I can experience it all over again
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 LOL. That's more or less why I keep my Q701s


----------



## -kent-

twoears said:


> As a level 10 computer expert I also feel obligated to tell you that your monitor needs to be bigger!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well, it IS a 24" Display... so... 
  
 The speakers are big, maybe thats why everything looks so tiny. 
  
 I got two. The other one is on one of the smaller pics at the right. I'm a Graphic Designer, so I mostly work with both the Display you see there and my Wacom Cintiq on the right. 
  
 Here is a bigger screenshot: https://www.flickr.com/photos/-kent-/8737615025/


----------



## Canadian411

-kent- said:


> Well, it IS a 24" Display... so...
> 
> The speakers are big, maybe thats why everything looks so tiny.
> 
> ...




Your living room is so neat!!! Very clean.


----------



## TwoEars

-kent- said:


> Well, it IS a 24" Display... so...
> 
> The speakers are big, maybe thats why everything looks so tiny.
> 
> ...


 

 Is it? I'll be damned, it looks so small. Like a 22 or something. Must be big speakers and a pretty big desk that creates the illusion.
  
 Now I see the smaller screen or the right as well! That's actually a pretty nice setup then! I'll take it back!


----------



## -kent-

canadian411 said:


> Your living room is so neat!!! Very clean.


 
 you mean from this picture?
  

  
 yeah I love white + teal. It's a small apartment, but I enjoy it as much as I can. 
  
 @TwoEars - thank you 
 The speakers are the Audioengine A5 - also something head-fi pointed me to in the past. 
 The cintiq is mounted on an Ergotron-Mounting-System, so it's only there if I need it. Otherwise it's in the back. You can draw on the Cintiq like on papr with a pencil, just digital and in (for example) Photoshop
 (or you could just use it as a secondary youtube-monitor  )


----------



## Zoom25

-kent- said:


> you mean from this picture?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's a beautiful and well organized room.


----------



## Canadian411

-kent- said:


> you mean from this picture?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ya so clean and neat. Thumbs up!


----------



## -kent-

Thank you all so much!


----------



## Thad-E-Ginathom

_And_ You've got one of those aeron chairs.
  
 So  have I.
  
 It's not _bad,_ but I wish I'd spent the money on a pair of HD800s!


----------



## -kent-

Haha, yes. It's actually the successor to the Aaron Chair. It's the Embody Chair by Herman Miller 
  
 The chair can be pretty comfy 
  
 But I bought it a few years ago, and my old chair died because of one of my "bigger" friends. After that I only had a little stool. Not good for my back, and since I was really hoping to buy the Embody Chair someday... so I bought it.


----------



## skeptic

-kent- said:


> Recently got my pair of HD800. After that I thought I should finally join this community.
> (Since head-fi.org is one of the main reasons why my pockets are now empty )
> 
> This are my beloved HD 800 <3
> ...


 
  
 Beautiful image - thanks for sharing it, as well as the other excellent work on your flikr page!
  
 I love your hp stand as well.  Would you mind sharing the make/model?


----------



## SleepyOne

Here is the link to the stand:
  
 http://www.thomann.de/gb/rooms_audio_typ_fs_w_headphone_stand.htm


----------



## TwoEars

I bought a headphone stand once, but then I laid my headphones on the desk.


----------



## SleepyOne

I do that with my T1 but a bit scary with 800 unless there is something soft underneath.


----------



## 62ohm

sleepyone said:


> I do that with my T1 but a bit scary with 800 unless there is something soft underneath.


 
  
 Same here lol, I have no problem putting my T1 on my desk but for some reason I'm scared to do the same with the HD800.. Maybe because subconsciously we think the HD800 is more valuable?


----------



## SleepyOne

Not that, I am scare of scratching the paint job lol!  I have seen early HD800 demo units at shops with paint work all scratch up....


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Me too the paint nicks easy. My has nicks on it. 
Al


----------



## skeptic

sleepyone said:


> Here is the link to the stand:
> 
> http://www.thomann.de/gb/rooms_audio_typ_fs_w_headphone_stand.htm


 
  
 Thanks!  Wish there was a US seller though.  Amazon prime has totally ruined me.  I now feel tortured if I have to wait more than 2 days for anything.


twoears said:


> I bought a headphone stand once, but then I laid my headphones on the desk.


 
 This alternative works better when you don't have a 4 year old running around who has taken to demanding head time with your hd800's.  A stand placed at the back of my desk seems to have some deterrent effect on small grabby hands, even though she could easily climb up if feeling determined.  But I value the aesthetics regardless.  An attractive stand turns your phones into an interesting item on display rather than just clutter on your desk.


----------



## Widell

Just got the HD800 now I have to wait until I got home...feels like Christmas eve when I was a kid.......It only took 4 days from order to delivery and as it was marked gift did not have to pay the customs fee....


----------



## pearljam50000

widell said:


> Just got the HD800 now I have to wait until I got home...feels like Christmas eve when I was a kid.......It only took 4 days from order to delivery and as it was marked gift did not have to pay the customs fee....



Where did u buy it from?


----------



## Widell

Hi,
  
 I bought it from below link on Saturday evening and got it delivered today in Abu Dhabi sent from Hong kong, they marked it as gift so I avoided the customs and tax, ttl usd 1150 which is not to bad considering Amazon takes usd 1499......
  
  
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SALE-BRAND-NEW-SENNHEISER-HD800-HD-800-DYNMIC-OPEN-BACK-STEREO-HEADPHONE-/221363074087?pt=AU_headphone&hash=item338a447427
  
  
 I just registered the phones on Sennheiser web site and activated the 2 year warranty now I just need to await the frequency response chart which they stated in their automatically reply would be sent in a few days...


----------



## James-uk

widell said:


> Just got the HD800 now I have to wait until I got home...feels like Christmas eve when I was a kid.......It only took 4 days from order to delivery and as it was marked gift did not have to pay the customs fee....




Welcome to the club. Listening right now and they still have the ability to impress going on 2 years of ownership. You are in for a revelation in music listening and enjoyment like no other.


----------



## PinkLed

After having the HD800s for a year I have to say I do not regret my purchase. Originally I was just going to buy them on Amazon and return them just to hear how they sound compared to my LCD2 Rev. 2. That day never came. Since then the Audezes have sat on the rack and only been used maybe once or twice. They are certainly the superior headphone in all aspects besides perhaps build materials. I love these things, I just hope the never break. I'm still using the stock cable as well. One concern however, the cable to headphone jack has a substantial wiggle from side to side. It doesn't affect the listening at all and when I looked at the leads everything seems to be straight and non deformed. The connectors are metal and do still make a nice snap when you insert them into the jack. I was wondering if anyone else could comment if they are experiencing the same thing. I noticed on eBay you can indeed buy new female jacks if they do one day break, but I'm just wondering. Thanks guys and thanks Sennheiser!


----------



## TwoEars

That's cool, I didn't know you could buy female HD800 connectors!
  
 Maybe I'll un-hardwire my HD800's again at some point in the future! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My connectors were rock solid when new, to the point I had to use almost all my force to get them out the first time.
  
 Then they become much looser and easier to put in and out, and there was a bit of wiggle but it never effected the function in the slightest.


----------



## frankrondaniel

pinkled said:


> After having the HD800s for a year I have to say I do not regret my purchase. Originally I was just going to buy them on Amazon and return them just to hear how they sound compared to my LCD2 Rev. 2. That day never came. Since then the Audezes have sat on the rack and only been used maybe once or twice. They are certainly the superior headphone in all aspects besides perhaps build materials. I love these things, I just hope the never break. I'm still using the stock cable as well. One concern however, the cable to headphone jack has a substantial wiggle from side to side. It doesn't affect the listening at all and when I looked at the leads everything seems to be straight and non deformed. The connectors are metal and do still make a nice snap when you insert them into the jack. I was wondering if anyone else could comment if they are experiencing the same thing. I noticed on eBay you can indeed buy new female jacks if they do one day break, but I'm just wondering. Thanks guys and thanks Sennheiser!


 
  
 I also have a little wiggle at the connectors and like yourself it doesn't appear to affect the sound.  It does make me wonder about longevity of the connections though.


----------



## Canadian411

I sold my Audeze lcd2.2 after I got my Sennheiser HD800. I didn't even think twice .

Problem with audeze headphones is that absolutely no sound stage. Everything sounded congested.

If you want little more musical and a strong bass there is TH900 to compensate Audeze sound signature ^^


----------



## preproman

canadian411 said:


> I sold my Audeze lcd2.2 after I got my Sennheiser HD800. I didn't even think twice
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Except for those recessed mids the TH900 has.


----------



## Thad-E-Ginathom

Here in India, there was a ridiculously low special-offer price on HD800 from one of our _reputable_ online sites for a couple of days recently. My sum total experience of high-end 'phones, so far, is about ten minutes, in a shop, with the LCD2s on my head, and I never heard HD800 yet. Even so, it was sooo tempting! I was telling myself that it should be easy to recover the price if I had to sell them ...but it was still a lot of money (half the price would be a lot of money!) and I don't have much of that just now.
  
 This was a serious temptation, and serious mental conflict. Yes, I would like to own what is recognised as one of the world's best headphones... Yes, I am a detail freak in my listening... but I also like to just relax into the music and, although there is not much MP3 on my disk, there is digitised vinyl from far-from-perfect LPs and... although my high-frequency hearing loss _needs_ good highs, it also makes _hard_ highs painful to listen to.
  
 Oh, if only I'd had a chance to _listen_ to these 'phones before that offer came and went.
  
 Perhaps, though, it was better that way, at least for my wallet ...and for my relationship with my wife!


----------



## Canadian411

preproman said:


> Except for those recessed mids the TH900 has.




Ya that's the only thing that doesn't make th900 a perfect can.

I miss my d7000


----------



## Canadian411

Detail and soundstage --> HD800
Dark (muddy) congested sound --> Audeze

That's just my opinion.


----------



## PinkLed

I would like to sell my LCD 2 eventually, but it seems like a hassle. Plus the look nice just sitting there, more of a work of art then anything else now


----------



## kugino

canadian411 said:


> Ya that's the only thing that doesn't make th900 a perfect can.
> 
> I miss my d7000


Funny you mention that. I've been very tempted to pick up the th900...but from everything I've read, it seems so close to the d7000 that it's hard to justify spending $700 more than what I got my d7000 for. And that's for a used th900 pair 

I'll hold off on the th900 for now and try to make nice nice with these he-500 that I just can't seem to love yet. Maybe I never will...but I have to try. I don't think my hd800 does anything to help...it makes everything else seem so congested, which is the main issue i have with the he-500


----------



## Canadian411

kugino said:


> Funny you mention that. I've been very tempted to pick up the th900...but from everything I've read, it seems so close to the d7000 that it's hard to justify spending $700 more than what I got my d7000 for. And that's for a used th900 pair
> 
> I'll hold off on the th900 for now and try to make nice nice with these he-500 that I just can't seem to love yet. Maybe I never will...but I have to try. I don't think my hd800 does anything to help...it makes everything else seem so congested, which is the main issue i have with the he-500




I bought my th900 around $1470.
Now you can pick up for $1100 at sonic.

D7000 had better mids, bit lighter.
TH900 bass is at a different level imo.

If I were you I will keep d7000


----------



## kugino

Yeah, I'll keep the d7000. I really like them. It's what I listen to 80% of the time. Just thinking about doing some of the Lawton mods myself...maybe add the dampening material.


----------



## TwoEars

kugino said:


> Funny you mention that. I've been very tempted to pick up the th900...but from everything I've read, it seems so close to the d7000 that it's hard to justify spending $700 more than what I got my d7000 for. And that's for a used th900 pair
> 
> I'll hold off on the th900 for now and try to make nice nice with these he-500 that I just can't seem to love yet. Maybe I never will...but I have to try. I don't think my hd800 does anything to help...it makes everything else seem so congested, which is the main issue i have with the he-500


 
  
 I basically reached the same conclusion.
  
 I was contemplating picking up a pair of TH900's so I started researching and looking at people's opinions. And just like you're saying the general consensus seemed to be that they are very similar to the D7000.
  
 Now - I like the D7000's. They are fun and engaging and with a satisfying bass. But I also now that for me the HD800's makes the D7000 feel distinctly mid-fi in comparision.
  
 And then there was the price of course, I think maybe it's not a bad idea to pick up a pair of D7000's if you want to. They are a bit of a cult headphone and will probably keep their value.
  
 So then I basically said well... you know instead of buying a TH900 I could get a nice pair of D7000's for half that, wow am I clever. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 But hang on.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I don't particularly want a pair of D7000's... they are nice. A good pair of headphones... but I know they would be dust collectors in my home. And that was the end of that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I also took some hints from this tread since I very much agree with some of the assessments: http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13
  
 I think maybe if I had a pair of D7000's I probably wouldn't sell them. But I'm not going to go out and buy a pair just to have.
  
 Now - what we really need is for Sony to make a R-10 replacement. That'd be cool.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

The same here , when we go beyond mid fi how to go back. Even when we listen to lesser headphones our brains adjust and it sounds good . But then we think what we are missing and it's all gone . 
Al


----------



## kugino

While not "perfect" (whatever that means), the d7000 is indeed a way more "fun" headphone to listen to, which is why I have them on my head a majority of the time. They're great when I watch movies on the computer, TV, a lot of genres of music...sure, the hd800 have soundstage and detail, but they're not exactly what I define as "fun". I think they're great, no doubt, but they're not everyday cans for me. 

Seems like the th900 have all that workmanship stuff going on. They sure are pretty...but maybe one day an offer I can't resist will come up and I'll pick up a pair. For now, my d7000/hd800/woody sr225/he-500 combo makes me very happy.


----------



## TwoEars

kugino said:


> While not "perfect" (whatever that means), the d7000 is indeed a way more "fun" headphone to listen to, which is why I have them on my head a majority of the time. They're great when I watch movies on the computer, TV, a lot of genres of music...sure, the hd800 have soundstage and detail, but they're not exactly what I define as "fun". I think they're great, no doubt, but they're not everyday cans for me.
> 
> Seems like the th900 have all that workmanship stuff going on. They sure are pretty...but maybe one day an offer I can't resist will come up and I'll pick up a pair. For now, my d7000/hd800/woody sr225/he-500 combo makes me very happy.


 
  
 Don't get me wrong, I do like the D7000's as well. And I understand perfectly what you're saying with the D7000 being the more fun and easy-go-along headphone for everyday use. It's a matter of taste and nothing more.
  
 Out of curiosity, what are you using to drive your D7000 and HD800's with? The Yulong A28?
  
 What's the verdict on that one compared to some of the other amps that you have or have had?


----------



## pearljam50000

Fun= less accurate


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> Fun= less accurate


 
 Now how did you come to that conclusion?


----------



## punit

pearljam50000 said:


> Fun= less accurate


 

 Sometimes in life you just gotta have fun. When I listen to HD 800 I close my eyes & loose myself in music. With TH 900 I get up & Dance.


----------



## PinkLed

I've come to notice that source and recording quality playa much higher factor in hi-fi listening then the headphone themselves. Just my observation but I could be wrong.


----------



## Canadian411

punit said:


> Sometimes in life you just gotta have fun. When I listen to HD 800 I close my eyes & loose myself in music. With TH 900 I get up & Dance.


 
  
 I agree, I don't think I can dance on classical music with HD800. 
 With TH900 playing various music, from pop, dance, techno, rock, alternative etc, I can surely dance   but I am not a good dancer


----------



## Canadian411

*Just get both guys, HD800 and TH900  = end game.*


----------



## Sorrodje

I much prefer HD800 + Ultrasone Signature pro .


----------



## sathyam

I prefer and have the HD800 and the LCD-3


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Same here


----------



## kugino

feel like hd800 + d7000 is end game for me...i'll keep my sr225 woodies b/c they're quite fun, too, but he-500 probably won't stay, hf2 will be sold, and the only headphone i really want to try is the th900, but not a necessity at the moment. 
  
 for now, more concerned about amp and source. ragnarok sounds like it will be a beast...i think it's between that and the taurus mk.ii


----------



## TwoEars

Heresy!


----------



## PinkLed

Foobar equalizer does an excellent job in making my HD800s "fun". I don't have the ears of a bat so it does the trick for me.


----------



## BournePerfect

I sold the TH900 after thoroughly comparing it to my HD800s on the same rig: ZDSE/DP1. I felt that the HD800 had it beat in nearly every area, both objective and subjective. I was very impressed with the Fostex soundstage though-it simply did not sound like a closed headphone. I think I simply grew out of colored headphones years ago-though the TH900 definitely strikes a good balance between fun and neutral imo.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## TwoEars

pinkled said:


> Foobar equalizer does an excellent job in making my HD800s "fun". I don't have the ears of a bat so it does the trick for me.


 
  
 I agree, if you want make the HD800 fun give it a +3-5dB boost in the midrange between 1kHz and 4kHz (peaking between 2-3.5 kHz) and it will have the same "glorious mids" as HD650, Grados, Denons etc etc.
  
 Don't knock it till you've tried it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I don't use anything that extreme day-to-day though. But it's entirely possible to alter the sound signature of the HD800 to almost anything you fancy.


----------



## Mortalcoil

With all due respect to the above posters,  I would say that the HD-800 and TH-900 are equal in terms of quality and in what they bring to the table. Both headphones shine in certain areas.  Being a new owner of both headphones as well as a veteran Sig Pro owner (if I can use that term ..lol)
  
 I find myself reaching for the TH-900's quite a bit.  I agree though that the HD-800 is a detail monster and possesses a Godly soundstage factor of 10,  there is still  something very organic, magical about the TH-900 (excuse the HF cliché terms)
  
 Perhaps its a mood thing also.  I would agree with Canadian411 that "an endgame" solution is to own both to a degree.  While I wouldn't go as far as endgame it comes close.  I would imagine for me a SR-009 / Abyss combo would be true endgame material.
  
 Cheers though to the HD-800 for all that it does great.  Oh forgot to mention,  I feel that the TH-900 bests the D-7000 considerably....just my 2cents.
  
 Make no mistake though, the HD-800 is a fantastic headphone that any Head Fi'er deserves at least to hear or better yet .... own.


----------



## kugino

mortalcoil said:


> With all due respect to the above posters,  I would say that the HD-800 and TH-900 are equal in terms of quality and in what they bring to the table. Both headphones shine in certain areas.  Being a new owner of both headphones as well as a veteran Sig Pro owner (if I can use that term ..lol)
> 
> I find myself reaching for the TH-900's quite a bit.  I agree though that the HD-800 is a detail monster and possesses a Godly soundstage factor of 10,  there is still  something very organic, magical about the TH-900 (excuse the HF cliché terms)
> 
> ...


Thanks for your thoughts. Can you tell us in what specific ways the th900 best the d7000 "by a considerable margin?"


----------



## Canadian411

kugino said:


> Thanks for your thoughts. Can you tell us in what specific ways the th900 best the d7000 "by a considerable margin?"




I say everthing except the mids.
D7000 also had a flaw in the treble department, woman vocale was bit harsh for me. And the soundstage was lacking quiet a lot in d7000.

Th900 improved the soundstage, smooths the trebles.

Only thing that significantly improved is the bass in TH900 over d7 and much cleaner sound.

I have to say th900 sound quality is equals to hd800.

D7k sound quality was same as lcd2.2 which I consider as a midfi can.

All I am saying is, keep d7k and skip th900 if you don't want to spend money. But if can, then still keep the d7k wit th900


----------



## Mortalcoil

Hey kugino for me personally I feel that the TH-900 is more detailed and adds more sparkle (not shrill or bright though).  From my memory I consider the Denon series more along the lines of the Sig Pro in that while it is a warm signature and fast at the same time its still lacks a certain euphony,  musicality.
  
 I find that the TH-900's sense of soundstage bests the D-7000.
  
 These are of course just my opinions and you know what they say about opinions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   
  
 Hope this makes sense to you.


----------



## kugino

mortalcoil said:


> Hey kugino for me personally I feel that the TH-900 is more detailed and adds more sparkle (not shrill or bright though).  From my memory I consider the Denon series more along the lines of the Sig Pro in that while it is a warm signature and fast at the same time its still lacks a certain euphony,  musicality.
> 
> I find that the TH-900's sense of soundstage bests the D-7000.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


canadian411 said:


> I say everthing except the mids.
> D7000 also had a flaw in the treble department, woman vocale was bit harsh for me. And the soundstage was lacking quiet a lot in d7000.
> 
> Th900 improved the soundstage, smooths the trebles.
> ...


 
 thanks for the replies, guys. i actually think the soundstage of the d7000 is really good for a closed headphone...much better than the alpha dogs and grados. if the th900 is even better, that's pretty amazing. 
  
 i like the mids of the d7000, no doubt. i think the he-500 do female vocals a bit better, but i like the d7000 in every other way. if indeed the th900 is a much more refined and euphonic headphone, i'd love to hear it. i'm fairly certain i will cross paths with it one day soon...i'd love to do my own comparison between the two.
  
 for now, i'll concentrate on figuring out my amp situation.


----------



## LugBug1

thad-e-ginathom said:


> Here in India, there was a ridiculously low special-offer price on HD800 from one of our _reputable_ online sites for a couple of days recently. My sum total experience of high-end 'phones, so far, is about ten minutes, in a shop, with the LCD2s on my head, and I never heard HD800 yet. Even so, it was sooo tempting! I was telling myself that it should be easy to recover the price if I had to sell them ...but it was still a lot of money (half the price would be a lot of money!) and I don't have much of that just now.
> 
> This was a serious temptation, and serious mental conflict. Yes, I would like to own what is recognised as one of the world's best headphones... Yes, I am a detail freak in my listening... but I also like to just relax into the music and, although there is not much MP3 on my disk, there is digitised vinyl from far-from-perfect LPs and... although my high-frequency hearing loss _needs_ good highs, it also makes _hard_ highs painful to listen to.
> 
> ...


 
 The seed is planted now my friend - You will get them, it is inevitable! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And your wallet will forgive you in time, but your ears will be thanking you for many years!
  
 And when you do, your wife will suddenly become an inconvenience.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Regarding possible painful highs with your hearing, a simple tweak on a good EQ can pinpoint areas that can cause you annoyance. But really the treble is far from painful in general. Just highly detailed


----------



## DMax99

Finally joining the hd800 club.. It should be arriving sometime next week!


----------



## DMax99

bourneperfect said:


> I sold the TH900 after thoroughly comparing it to my HD800s on the same rig: ZDSE/DP1. I felt that the HD800 had it beat in nearly every area, both objective and subjective. I was very impressed with the Fostex soundstage though-it simply did not sound like a closed headphone. I think I simply grew out of colored headphones years ago-though the TH900 definitely strikes a good balance between fun and neutral imo.
> 
> -Daniel





Yeah to my ears, th900 is the BEST closed headphones I've heard so far. Very neutral, seems to do very good in pretty much almost everything. Soundstage is very very good for a closed headphones. 

After I get my hd800 and selling off most of my mud low Fi gears. I definitely will get a pair as my closed gear supplementing the open hd800.. Lol


----------



## Greed

Neutral?...


----------



## BournePerfect

Definitely not neutral in the FR. Maybe a better descriptor would be fun and relatively transparent. Relative to other 'fun' cans anyway. I found in that particular setup of mine-that the HD800 didn't lose out it musicality to the Fostex either. Just really better in every aspect-unless somewhat overbearing bass is your thing. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## magiccabbage

greed said:


> Neutral?...


 
 How is greed? Any word on the levi (I know i keep asking but I cant help it)


----------



## BournePerfect

Levi in the final stages...soon.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## elvergun

dmax99 said:


> After I get my hd800 and selling off most of my mud low Fi gears. I definitely will get a pair as my closed gear supplementing the open hd800.. Lol


 
  
 Try the Beyer T5p.


----------



## Sorrodje

bourneperfect said:


> Levi in the final stages...soon.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 My Sonett 2 too. Delivery planned until the end of the month.


----------



## TwoEars

"Finally" huh?


----------



## Sorrodje

twoears said:


> "Finally" huh?


 
  
  
 Yes


----------



## rydenfan

Just got my new HD800's. SN29xxx

I cannot seem to unplug the cable from the headphones. Is there something particular I need to do?


----------



## Eee Pee

Pull harder.


----------



## TwoEars

Yeah, yank it straight out. Don't try to wiggle or bend.
  
 Just yank it straight out, it does take a lot of power the first time but get easier after a while.


----------



## Maxvla

Take care in the direction it will go once released or you could scratch the metal screen. As you do it a few times, the connectors will loosen up a little making it easier.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

For anyone doughting just how fantastic the combo in the picture is. This is absolute audio nirvana by definition. 
The hd800 and the hdvd 800 amp is fantastic. 
And yes that is the new ps audio direct stream in there it is truly the new top dog of dacs to my ears .
Al


----------



## rydenfan

How do you request the frequency chart for your headphones?


----------



## 62ohm

rydenfan said:


> How do you request the frequency chart for your headphones?


 
 http://reg.sennheiserusa.com/


----------



## rydenfan

62ohm said:


> http://reg.sennheiserusa.com/




Yes, I filled out that form. So they will automatically send my frequency graph?


----------



## 62ohm

rydenfan said:


> Yes, I filled out that form. So they will automatically send my frequency graph?


 
  
 Yes they will email you your graph


----------



## Mortalcoil

rydenfan said:


> Just got my new HD800's. SN29xxx
> 
> I cannot seem to unplug the cable from the headphones. Is there something particular I need to do?


 
  
 Be careful not to pull the actual cable.  You want to grab the connector.
  


rydenfan said:


> How do you request the frequency chart for your headphones?


 
  
 If the above mentioned website (previous post) doesn't cut it try this.  Follow this link,  fill out appropriate info, click continue, fill out more info then scroll down and tick the box requesting a frequency graph.  Takes approx. 3 - 5 days by email to receive   http://en-de.sennheiser.com/service-support-services-register-your-product


----------



## Dionysus

alrainbow said:


> For anyone doughting just how fantastic the combo in the picture is. This is absolute audio nirvana by definition.
> The hd800 and the hdvd 800 amp is fantastic.
> And yes that is the new ps audio direct stream in there it is truly the new top dog of dacs to my ears .
> Al




Al that PSAudio Direct stream is one fine piece of equipment man. I just picked up a Black PerfectWave DAC with Bridge and it sounds incredible, I can only imagine how great the DScsounds Congrats!

I put a together a cozy listening station over the weekend my piece of audio Nirvana. 


http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/1103137/width/350/height/700[/MG]
[attach]1103139[/attach]
[attach]1103141[/attach]


----------



## amham

mortalcoil said:


> rydenfan said:
> 
> 
> > Just got my new HD800's. SN29xxx
> ...


 
  
 The vertical resolution scale is so wide that the frequency graph is useless IMO.


----------



## LugBug1

amham said:


> The vertical resolution scale is so wide that the frequency graph is useless IMO.


 
 I'd agree with this too. It's more of a personal certificate for your serial number. I would recommend anyone just taking a look at the Headroom graph for any kind of frequency reference.


----------



## DMax99

Hi all, 

Is it worth spending the money for a Cardas cable?


----------



## NickLondon

I've tried a Cardas cable and personally could not tell the difference. Others might give a different answer.


----------



## jchandler3

dmax99 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Is it worth spending the money for a Cardas cable?




I don't have the 800s, but the Cardas cable made a small yet noticeable difference for my 650s. This is coming from a guy that doesn't put *that* much stock in cable swapping.


----------



## Canadian411

I tried, ALO coppers, and no differences. I even tried the Balanced ALO cables, no differences.
 That was like a year ago, I started to think this whole after market cabling is a scam or another way to promote their products.
  
 But this is just me, your opinion/(YMMV) may vary, try if you can pass the blind test between the stock cable and after market cables.


----------



## Canadian411

I have to add this,
  
 but after market cables look nicer


----------



## TwoEars

The cardas cable is very good, certainly one of the best, but I personally don't think it's quite worth the price.
  
 If you are able to build something yourself with either a mogami or canare you will get the same sound quality but at a much lower price.
  
 But if building something yourself is out of the question you can also scan the second hand market and ebay for good deals.
  
 In my opinion the biggest difference comes from getting rid of the copper/silver cable that is the stock cable, and replacing it with something that is pure copper. The brand of the pure copper cable is not so significant.
  
 DHC, toxic cables, ALOaudio, moon, stefan aa.... they all make good cables.
  
 It's not a major change and depending on your rig and music style you may or may not think it was worth it. But I was very happy with my change, it was the last 1-2% I was looking for.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Some audio buys are pride of ownership. In this they perform fantastic hahaha. I think going from copper to silver does make a difference and some more than others. 
It is not something that will wow you as soon as you put them on but over time it changes . Now this could be power of your purchase suggestion. But in the end maybe not worth what some spend , but is to others . Now in speakers rigs it matters more. And in digital cables it is a absolute needed item to experiment with . 
Al


----------



## James-uk

Digital cables do not need experimenting with. They either work or they don't. Also why does it matter in speaker rigs ?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I know I sound like all the jerks I hated till I heard what they did. My first experience was with a AES cable . What I difference when I found a good one. Another is a spidif coax. If you think it's not worth is try a good . Not a 500 one either , but one from empirical audio . The same for HDMI or USB. I know it's digital and just bites. The thing is audio timing is every thing as well any noise . So yes all the bites do get the but with noise or very small delays that we hear .
Now speakers is different here the sounds all seem the same but with changing the wires it effects the tone . Some make it Brite some make it thin. I know I am ass ,,,, but it is true. It is not dramatic but it does become apparent inc a short time . 
Al


----------



## kugino

canadian411 said:


> I have to add this,
> 
> but after market cables look nicer


 
 agreed. i build cables for myself b/c i like shorter cables and i like my cables to look a certain way. oh, i forgot - i'm not paying someone $200 for a freakin' cable.


----------



## Canadian411

kugino said:


> agreed. i build cables for myself b/c i like shorter cables and i like my cables to look a certain way. oh, i forgot - i'm not paying someone $200 for a freakin' cable.




After I found out how much really it cost to make cables I make my own with better look and feel.


----------



## kugino

canadian411 said:


> After I found out how much really it cost to make cables I make my own with better look and feel.


Yep. The only cable I've made that was relatively pricey was my HD800 cable. And that's because the freakin' connectors cost $45-50!


----------



## YoengJyh

For me, cable does make different in sound. Not huge but it does. It will make the sound fuller, warmer, thicker, deeper extension... dynamic, better separation... not many different, maybe about 15%.
  
 I can hear the different, answered deeply from my heart. It was not placebo effect. If not all the after market cable companies go to bankruptcy long time already...


----------



## Mike F

Yes, sorry James, cables DO make a difference, even digital ones. DAC's sound different from one another as well.
  
 You don't have to believe it in theory - just listen and believe your ears - they're better than you think..............


----------



## Zoom25

For interconnects, I use Mogami and they do make a difference compared to off the shelf cables. Although for USB, I honestly haven't found any difference, no matter how minute, to date.


----------



## James-uk

alrainbow said:


> I know I sound like all the jerks I hated till I heard what they did. My first experience was with a AES cable . What I difference when I found a good one. Another is a spidif coax. If you think it's not worth is try a good . Not a 500 one either , but one from empirical audio . The same for HDMI or USB. I know it's digital and just bites. The thing is audio timing is every thing as well any noise . So yes all the bites do get the but with noise or very small delays that we hear .
> Now speakers is different here the sounds all seem the same but with changing the wires it effects the tone . Some make it Brite some make it thin. I know I am ass ,,,, but it is true. It is not dramatic but it does become apparent inc a short time .
> Al




The dac clock takes care of the timing . Go and educate yourself on how digital audio works. Expensive Digital cables are one of the biggest scams I've ever seen and it makes me really angry that it's apparently working on you nice, hard working people. Seriously I could post links but the facts are not hard to find I IF YOU want to know the truth.


----------



## James-uk

http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2014/01/demo-measurements-what-does-bad-usb-or.html?m=1

As it says, a bad digital cable will have obvious flaws ie audible pops and clicks and drop out. He tests the cheapest usb you can imagine and what a surprise it works. I'm not saying get the cheapest crap but any standard digital cable from a reputable store will work the same as the most expensive one .


----------



## James-uk

http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/12/measurements-usb-cable-extension-with.html?m=1


----------



## James-uk

http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/05/measurements-power-cables-for-low-power.html?m=1

http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/04/measurements-usb-cables-for-dacs.html?m=1

http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/04/guest-review-measurements-dr-franks.html?m=1


----------



## jsgraha

Cable debate will most likely lead into invaluable debate (particularly in headphone appreciation thread).
 If someone can't hear the difference, would that be great?
 I just wish that I can't hear the difference as well, actually.
  
 But I do agree that the difference will be minimal compare to changing gear, tubes or headphone.
  
 Anyway, regarding tubes, could someone kindly provide a reliable tube store (supplier)?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Mortalcoil

james-uk said:


> http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2014/01/demo-measurements-what-does-bad-usb-or.html?m=1
> 
> As it says, a bad digital cable will have obvious flaws ie audible pops and clicks and drop out. He tests the cheapest usb you can imagine and what a surprise it works. I'm not saying get the cheapest crap but any standard digital cable from a reputable store will work the same as the most expensive one .


 
  
 While I don't totally disagree with you,  keep in mind that for every article or blog denouncing mega $ cables there are just as many that support it.


----------



## 62ohm

jsgraha said:


> Cable debate will most likely lead into invaluable debate (particularly in headphone appreciation thread).
> If someone can't hear the difference, would that be great?
> I just wish that I can't hear the difference as well, actually.
> 
> ...


 
  
 http://www.upscaleaudio.com/
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/


----------



## TwoEars

Digital USB is in a sense just like HDMI, if the signal gets through the signal gets through.
  
 There are however some quite reputable manufactures of USB cables that say that the shorter you can make a USB cable the better, and the less risk of "smearing" there is in the peak's and valleys that form the "1" and "0" in the cable. The signal is digital, but inside the cable it's still made up of minute rises and falls in the voltage. And the longer the cable gets the less pronounced these rises and falls in voltage gets.
  
 This is similar to HDMI having a max length that you can run it.Theoretically the higher the data rate and the longer the USB cable the bigger the risk of data loss in a USB cable.
  
 So - say you have a 4 feet cable and use 44100 24-bit. Don't worry, you're not going to lose anything. Not possible.
  
 But, say you want to do ultra high res 192kHz, 24-bit over a 20 feet usb cable. Ok... now maybe you should start to worry. You might actually get some smearing and data loss there.
  
 So the single biggest thing you can do to improve the quality of a USB connection is to move your gear around and get the shortest USB cable possible. A good standard USB of good quality will do, but it's the distance more than anything the kills the signal.
  
 The other thing with USB is the grounding issue, if you have ground rippling noise in a computer that you use as a source for all your media files there is a very high risk of that noise getting into the DAC and actually into the dac-chip itself. This is of course bad and something we want to avoid.
  
 To this end there are products that isolates or filters the ground noise going through the USB cable. Such as this one:
  
 http://bmc-audio.de/index.php/usb-audio-interconnect.html
  
 These products can definitely make a difference, both practical and theoretical. But you might only be able to notice it if you have a noisy source and a high-end rig.
  
 So in my opinion there is A LOT of snake oil in the cable business, but there is also some science behind it.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

jsgraha said:


> Cable debate will most likely lead into invaluable debate (particularly in headphone appreciation thread).
> If someone can't hear the difference, would that be great?
> I just wish that I can't hear the difference as well, actually.
> 
> ...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

james-uk said:


> The dac clock takes care of the timing . Go and educate yourself on how digital audio works. Expensive Digital cables are one of the biggest scams I've ever seen and it makes me really angry that it's apparently working on you nice, hard working people. Seriously I could post links but the facts are not hard to find I IF YOU want to know the truth.




Try a PPA red USB it's not that expensive but does make a difference you can hear 
As soon as you try it. Don't be so anger at me. 
I am just a user like you and felt just like you did 
It's not all snake oil but many are. There is also changes in SS HARDdrives 
Ciao marred to mech spin drives. Also sata cables 
I know all the data gets there. It dies of course that's how CPU s work. But here're us timing issues that we here 
Same with dacs I know they are asynconus 
But it's the same here there are small varienses in the timing 
There is a good answers on the web read them. And stop being so agree at me 
If I have offended you I am sorry for it. 
If it's just what I am saying relax it's just my opinion 
Not yours 
Happy al


----------



## James-uk

alrainbow said:


> Try a PPA red USB it's not that expensive but does make a difference you can hear
> As soon as you try it. Don't be so anger at me.
> I am just a user like you and felt just like you did
> It's not all snake oil but many are. There is also changes in SS HARDdrives
> ...




Not angry at you . I am at the companies that sell expensive cables and make claims about how they improve sound quality when they don't.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Well I feel the same as you do. Especially the exotic bull,ones . I am with in that. Butbtherebisbalwaysbroom small to more noticible improvent to be had. The PPA I quoted does make a big enough improvement to be worth while . And my audioquest diamond does too but the PPA is just as good at half the price .
Al


----------



## BournePerfect

Why do HD800 threads always turn into cable debates??????
  
 The last HD800 appreciation thread got locked for this very thing. Circular arguments are still circular arguments.
  
 Leave it alone-there are other threads on this site dedicated soley to people who wish to stick their heads in the sand.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Eee Pee

It'd be fun if it always turned into a Siamese Dream debate.
  
 Yes, I think it's their best album.  
  
 I wonder what cables they used... not really.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Hahaha perfectly said. 
Al


----------



## BournePerfect

There is no debate. SD is definitely their best album as a whole. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Although Adore probably sounds best w/ the HD800.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## TwoEars

I vote Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But honestly, it's all good. Mostly. Better than 95% of the stuff made today at least, that's for sure.


----------



## SilverEars

twoears said:


> I vote Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





  Love that album.  I like to rock this one.


----------



## jsgraha

alrainbow said:


> Well I feel the same as you do. Especially the exotic bull,ones . I am with in that. Butbtherebisbalwaysbroom small to more noticible improvent to be had. The PPA I quoted does make a big enough improvement to be worth while . And my audioquest diamond does too but the PPA is just as good at half the price .
> Al


 

 Paul Pang stuff is awesome.
 I have a computer dedicated music server made around his PPA USB card (powered by linear PSU).
 Highly recommended!
  
 And another vote for Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness !!


----------



## BournePerfect

MCIS definitely has more hits, but SD holds together as a single album better imo. Plus, SD has Mayonaise. 
  
 See, derailing with Pumpkins>derailing with cable debate.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Eee Pee

bourneperfect said:


> Plus, SD has Mayonaise.
> 
> See, derailing with Pumpkins>derailing with cable debate.


 
  
  
 Ah, the signature...
  
 And yes.  It was that easy.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Guys guys guys....
  
 Zeitgeist was obviously the best Smashing Pumpkins album


----------



## BournePerfect

Zeitgeist gets too much flak imo. The guitar work is awesome, but Billy's voice has changed so much, coupled with terrible mixing, make for a weaker experience for sure. Not to mention the politics.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Frank I

I am using the HD800 with the AK240 balanced with an balanced cable and adapter and it is working well. The AK240 is awesome and will work well with the hd800.  The adapter is wyredwires- Alex did a great job making the adapter


----------



## frankrondaniel

frank i said:


> I am using the HD800 with the AK240 balanced with an balanced cable and adapter and it is working well. The AK240 is awesome and will work well with the hd800.  The adapter is wyredwires- Alex did a great job making the adapter


 
  
 I have to agree. I have a balanced adapter from ALO that I've been using with the HD800's and I've been very pleasantly surprised how well the HD800's work with the AK240.


----------



## LilBuck

Does anyone use their HD800 with a modmic? I just got one last night but noticed that the magnet is being held against the headphone and didn't know if that had any ill effects. Some cursory research seems to imply that this shouldn't matter, but I figured I would check to see if anyone had any insight there.


----------



## pearljam50000

Is there anyone using the HD800 with a budget rig, say 350$ and less?


----------



## TwoEars

Now that's a gaming headset.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Can't imagine it should matter, maybe on a theoretical level. But hardly on a practical one.
  


pearljam50000 said:


> Is there anyone using the HD800 with a budget rig, say 350$ and less?


 
  
 Sure, it hardly sounds its best like that but it can be done. Matrix M-stage is often recommended.


----------



## frix

I do, 
 Fiio E17+E09k+ EqualizerAPO (Free software parametric EQ)
  
 I'm an audiophile outlaw.


----------



## Drsparis

pearljam50000 said:


> Is there anyone using the HD800 with a budget rig, say 350$ and less?


I'd stick with a cDAC and Vali for about 250$!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

If you do not own the hd800 I personably would buy a less revieling headphone. 
As the hd800 are extreme in detail and and having cheaper DAC and amp is looking for 
An unhappy audio experience 
I am sure I will get bashed now. But someone needs to be honest 
Here. 
Al


----------



## philo50

alrainbow said:


> If you do not own the hd800 I personably would buy a less revieling headphone.
> As the hd800 are extreme in detail and and having cheaper DAC and amp is looking for
> An unhappy audio experience
> I am sure I will get bashed now. But someone needs to be honest
> ...


 
 hey Al.....I agree with you


----------



## TwoEars

I'm inclined to agree as well.
  
 A cheap DAC/AMP can be a stopgap if you want to get the HD800 now and uprade the rest later.
  
 But it's not so good if that's how you're planning to use it in the long run.
  
 HD600/650 are better for that, much more forgiving.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

So they will bash us both hahaha pm me 
I had the pwd and ap1/pp and I did the upgrade to direct stream 
Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Wow all this agreement is making me think something really bad is coming. 

Al


----------



## kvtaco17

alrainbow said:


> Wow all this agreement is making me think something really bad is coming.
> 
> Al


 
 Agreed


----------



## Maxvla

I disagree. HD800 + M-Stage w/USB DAC is hard to beat. $1800 rig (retail) that would take much more to beat it, IMO. Get the M-Stage, replace DAC first, then amp later. No reason to even bother with mid-fi amps and DACs.

No HD600/650 rig would touch it.


----------



## TwoEars

maxvla said:


> No HD600/650 rig would touch it.


 
  
 The m-stage is good, but that's still very subjective. Depends on what you're looking for.


----------



## Maxvla

twoears said:


> The m-stage is good, but that's still very subjective. Depends on what you're looking for.



It's more that the HD600 is several steps below the HD800 in any category. An HD600 on a decent rig vs a HD800 on a cell phone, I'd take the HD800 any day.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Ok now I feel better. Hahahaha
Al


----------



## TwoEars

maxvla said:


> It's more that the HD600 is several steps below the HD800 in any category. An HD600 on a decent rig vs a HD800 on a cell phone, I'd take the HD800 any day.


 
  
 I'm the oppsite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 On a cell phone I prefer the HD650.
  
 On my meridian explorer I prefer the HD650.
  
 Powered straight from my Anedio D1 it takes a lot of EQ'ing before I'm happy with the HD800 over the HD650. The HD650 I can listen to bone stock.
  
 Powered by the Violectric V200 it's close, but the HD800 eventually wins and is good without EQ.
  
 Powered by my Sonett 1 the HD800 wins hands down.
  
 ....but... the combo of Anedio D1 + DNA Sonett + HD650 is still a damn fun combo. If the source material is mediocre i prefer it.
  
 Each to his own


----------



## Canadian411

Lol Al. I will be honest to. HD800 doesn't sound good on any portable gears.

Portable is just not, not and NOT!

Go with the full desktop amp / dac. Trust me on this. 

Now I am get ready to be bashed.


----------



## verber

maxvla said:


> It's more that the HD600 is several steps below the HD800 in any category. An HD600 on a decent rig vs a HD800 on a cell phone, I'd take the HD800 any day.


 
  
 I agree that I would rather have the HD800 + m-stage hpa/dac (or several other budget dac/amp combos) over the HD650 + better electronics, but I draw the line at driving the HD800 from a cell phone... that's just too painful.  The trick is to select components that don't do things really wrong (e.g. irritating such as really off tone) while giving up things you would like, but there absence isn't in your face such as good micro detail.  I think the only thing that would give the HD800 + m-stage a run at the same price point would be the HIFIMAN HE-500 + appropriate electronics. What electronics? I don't know because I haven't spend time trying to identify what budget components have optimal synergies with the HE-500, but the Schiit Bifrost into the Lyr might be good combo while keeping the total price below HD800 + m-stage.
  
  


canadian411 said:


> Lol Al. I will be honest to. HD800 doesn't sound good on any portable gears.
> 
> Portable is just not, not and NOT!
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would disagree.  You don't get maximum performance out of the HD800, but I have found it quite enjoyable with a number of portable options.  The best was the Chord Hugo, but that's $2.5k!!  While not as good as the Hugo, I have found the CEnterence HiFi-M8 enjoyable as has been a decent source feeding a Headamp Pico Power amplifier.
  
 --Mark


----------



## pearljam50000

Is it possible to live with the O2/ODAC with the HD800? because i read in many posts here that it rivals much more expensive gear.
 So basicaly my question is, is it possible to enjoy, say 90% of the HD800 sound with a budget rig or is it a waste of time and money? Thanks.
  
 Edit: good info the replys, thanks, but it's still hard to decide because some yes, and others say no


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I have that combo. It drives the headphones fine if you like needles in the ears. The headphones shows you everything so anything in the chain you are going to hear . So if you play really well recorded music ifs not bad but nothing like the same on a really good setup. Now of you play less than really well recorded music this is where it gets really bad fast. 
I read all that hype and even bought the stuff . It's as time goes on you start to realize how bd it was when you get better . 
Al


----------



## TwoEars

I think the new Hifiman HE-560 might be a more interesting option if you're going to stick with a low budget dac/amp. That's what I'd be looking at myself if I was in the market for something like that.
  
 The HD800 scales like crazy when you feed it better, but with low budget gear, less than stellar recordings and fairly high volume it might prove a painful and expensive lesson.
  
 Read my review of the HD800 if you want. I called it the F1 car of headphones... needs careful setup.
  
 My 2 cents of course.
  
 And like everything it depends. Low volume and classical you can listen to the HD800 from a phone on and it will be decent. 70's rock, not so much.


----------



## Stapsy

The HE560's don't really compare to the HD800.  The 560 still have that weird diffuse, kind of veiled sound that the HE500 have.  Think of it as a more neutral HE500 and you will be pretty close.
  
 Personally I would take a Vali/cheap DAC/HD800 combo over the HE560s.


----------



## Maxvla

pearljam50000 said:


> Is it possible to live with the O2/ODAC with the HD800? because i read in many posts here that it rivals much more expensive gear.
> So basicaly my question is, is it possible to enjoy, say 90% of the HD800 sound with a budget rig or is it a waste of time and money? Thanks.
> 
> Edit: good info the replys, thanks, but it's still hard to decide because some yes, and others say no



Objective stack sounds quite good with the HD800, but it lacks dynamics greatly. Basically it sounds like high end radio, all the same volume (exaggerating, a little).


----------



## TwoEars

stapsy said:


> The HE560's don't really compare to the HD800.  The 560 still have that weird diffuse, kind of veiled sound that the HE500 have.  Think of it as a more neutral HE500 and you will be pretty close.
> 
> Personally I would take a Vali/cheap DAC/HD800 combo over the HE560s.


 
  
 That's a bummer if that's true, I haven't been following the updates on the HE-560 too closely.
  
 I did like the HE-500 I had quite a lot but that was mostly for it's "dark electric flavor", which is a bit weird since the LCD-2/3/X are also somewhat dark but I mostly find them boring. The HE-500 was darkish but also somehow energetic. The comfort, build quality and poor soundstage made me sell them though.
  
 So, ok ok. I give up. Get the HD800 and m-stage or schiit vali then. But that's the lowest I'd go in terms of amping.
  
 Then when you upgrade get a better dac first, something neutral to darkish would be good.
  
  
 And then when you upgrade again a tube amp for the HD800 is not a bad option. DNA sonett 1 & 2 are very nice with it... as is the bottlehead amps from what I hear.


----------



## kugino

Not a fan of the he-500. Have them now, am trying to give them a chance, but they sound great with female vocals and that's about it. Not worth putting up with their weight, IMO. Mine will probably go up for sale in the next day or two.


----------



## Stapsy

The 560's aren't bad.  My point is that they are an extension from the HE500 and not really that similar to the HD800.  I prefer the HE5 to the HE560 because they have a more HD800 type sound.  The Code-X is closer to the HD800 than any of the Hifiman's or LCD2/LCD3

 FWIW I wouldn't bother with the HD800 either if you plan to only get a Vali or m-stage as it seems like there is little point.  If you don't mind a more forward sound just get the HD600.  The HD800 will always trade off graininess for detail with lower end gear.


----------



## TwoEars

kugino said:


> Not a fan of the he-500. Have them now, am trying to give them a chance, but they sound great with female vocals and that's about it. Not worth putting up with their weight, IMO. Mine will probably go up for sale in the next day or two.


 
  
 I liked them with electronica. Depeche Mode, Massive Attack, Infected Mushrooms, that kind of thing. You could give that a try. But overall I don't think the HE-500 beats the HD800 either. But it has some charms I think.
  


stapsy said:


> The 560's aren't bad.  My point is that they are an extension from the HE500 and not really that similar to the HD800.


 
  
 Roger, roger. I had hoped that the HE-560 would be able to take the nice juicy flavor of the HE-500 and add better soundstage, comfort and less weight. Maybe I was dreaming.


----------



## UNIFi

I had a demo of the HD800 today, with a variety of songs.
 They were
 Submotion Orchestra - Backchat
 The Future Sound of London - Lifeform Ends
 Howard Shore - Helms Deep
 Russell Brower - New Tristam
 Shpongle - Divine Moments of Truth
 Massive Attack - Inertia Creeps
 King Crimson - In The Court of the Crimson King
 Pink Floyd - Money
 Om - Haqq Al-Yaqin
 Alice in Chains - Over Now (acoustic)
  
 I wished I could have tried out more, as the HD800 lived up all the hype surrounding it for sure. I didn't try testing it with my metal, punk, EDM stuff at all as I didn't feel they'd replace what I've got now for those styles. Looks like the HD800 is going on the "in consideration to buy" list.
  
 Like many always say, the soundstage and imaging were well beyond anything I had heard up until now, and the detail level was very very good. The treble never bothered me at all in any of the tracks, and I didn't find it lacking in bass at all. Yes the bass is not powerful like the TH600/900/DX1000/Sig DJ or Audeze, but its very well extended and didn't feel particularly weak to me at all - this coming from someone with mostly bass heavier headphones. I find the stock Alpha Dog to share some similarities in frequency response to the HD800 - mainly the treble, although without the same level of detail, stage or imaging.


----------



## SilverEars

twoears said:


> I liked them with electronica. *Depeche Mode*, Massive Attack, Infected Mushrooms, that kind of thing. You could give that a try. But overall I don't think the HE-500 beats the HD800 either. But it has some charms I think.
> 
> 
> Roger, roger. I had hoped that the HE-560 would be able to take the nice juicy flavor of the HE-500 and add better soundstage, comfort and less weight. Maybe I was dreaming.


 





 90's guy here.  I'm a fan of the music style of the 90's, but don't find too many good recording besides the unplugged.  Smashing Pumpkins are pretty good rock recordings.  Actually, the Cure isn't bad recording wise, and love the music style. My music taste has drastically changed when I went HiFi(maybe it's the age
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  I didn't think would get into Jazz and classical and Eva Cassidy.  I think it's because I don't notice sound scaling up with high end gear with 90's and electronic music to my ears.


----------



## Stapsy

twoears said:


> I liked them with electronica. Depeche Mode, Massive Attack, Infected Mushrooms, that kind of thing. You could give that a try. But overall I don't think the HE-500 beats the HD800 either. But it has some charms I think.
> 
> 
> Roger, roger. I had hoped that the HE-560 would be able to take the nice juicy flavor of the HE-500 and add better soundstage, comfort and less weight. Maybe I was dreaming.


 
  
 I think you will probably like them then. 
  
 Comfort is improved immensely.  I honestly think the new design could equal the comfort of the HD800. I can't quite say on the soundstage because it has been a while since I heard the HE500, but the FR of the 560 is very flat to my ears. 
  
 It is more the lack of clarity that bugs me.  I find the 560 lacks realism and makes it hard to differentiate instruments when compared with the HD800.  This has always been my complaint with the HE500 as well.


----------



## Maxvla

stapsy said:


> FWIW I wouldn't bother with the HD800 either if you plan to only get a Vali or m-stage as it seems like there is little point.  If you don't mind a more forward sound just get the HD600.  The HD800 will always trade off graininess for detail with lower end gear.



The point of the HD800 + inexpensive combo is to get your foot in the door with excellent sound and the plan later to upgrade both DAC and amp. With a plan like that, you want to spend as little as possible while still getting acceptable sound, so M-Stage or Vali/ODAC gets you there for $220-320, and allows you to upgrade a piece at a time. You gain time to sample gear at meets and research, and also time to save up for those purchases.

The end goal isn't to have a mid-fi system like HD600 + BHC + UberFrost. (HD800 combos described above would crush that mid-fi system anyways, IMO)


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> Is it possible to live with the O2/ODAC with the HD800? because i read in many posts here that it rivals much more expensive gear.
> So basicaly my question is, is it possible to enjoy, say 90% of the HD800 sound with a budget rig or is it a waste of time and money? Thanks.
> 
> Edit: good info the replys, thanks, but it's still hard to decide because some yes, and others say no


 
  
 Don't bother with the O2. Lacks punch and dynamics. Treble can get hot. The only positive thing I can say about it is that it has decent transparency in it's price range....but other than that it's not really worth it.


----------



## Drsparis

Definitely get the hd800's. I had them for a while with a cDAC and Vali. I later upgraded to a Bryston BHA-1 and use my E-MU0404 as a balanced source while waiting for my pulse X. As much as the Bryston was an upgrade, the Vali still sounded awe inspiring. Seriously it took me about 2 weeks to be able to listen to it without my jaw wide open lol. 

The better amp squeezes out that last 10%.It does sound better. Bass is just crazy well defined and the treble is crisp and almost aggressive but not quite. if your not specifically looking for differences however, it's subtle. I'm either deaf or people enjoy talking a little too much to make up for the 1000$+ purchase a part of their brain still regrets. 

Don't take me wrong. I don't think I will be getting rid of the Bryston and I'm actually still trying to make sense of why I don't want to get rid of it considering my opinion on the amp difference in SQ. 

Tlr get the hd800 it's amazing, even with the vali.


----------



## TwoEars

silverears said:


> 90's guy here.  I'm a fan of the music style of the 90's, but don't find too many good recording besides the unplugged.  Smashing Pumpkins are pretty good rock recordings.  Actually, the Cure isn't bad recording wise, and love the music style. My music taste has drastically changed when I went HiFi(maybe it's the age
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lol. Yupp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's pretty common for music tastes to change when you get into high-end gear I think. I've started listening ot Jazz and Blues and I've never done that before in my life, you know... "thelonious monk - live at the club" and simiar. Immensely enjoyable.
  
 But I still also think Depeche Mode are absolutely world class. Playing the Angle, Exciter, Delta Machine, Sounds of the Universe... all those albums are all in the "art" category for me. Very little of it is "billboard material", a lot of it is pretty dark and depressing..... but it's also insanely good and the production values are sky high. And a high end rig definitey makes a difference. Those albums are amazing on my HD800.
  


stapsy said:


> I think you will probably like them then.
> 
> Comfort is improved immensely.  I honestly think the new design could equal the comfort of the HD800. I can't quite say on the soundstage because it has been a while since I heard the HE500, but the FR of the 560 is very flat to my ears.
> 
> It is more the lack of clarity that bugs me.  I find the 560 lacks realism and makes it hard to differentiate instruments when compared with the HD800.  This has always been my complaint with the HE500 as well.


 
  
 I think to some extent the same critism can applied to the LCD-2/3/X as well? I find it harder to different instruments than on the HD800. Maybe an "ortho thing"?
  
 But Hifiman is an interesting brand, I don't think they're quite there yet in terms of quality and tuning their sound. But they're improving fast! I wonder what they're going to make to replace the HE-6....


----------



## punit

>


 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






unifi said:


> I had a demo of the HD800 today, with a variety of songs.
> They were
> Submotion Orchestra - Backchat
> The Future Sound of London - Lifeform Ends
> ...


 
  


 +1. I agree with most of your observations. BTW I alternate between TH 900, HE-6 & HD 800 for Psy / Progressive Trance , I prefer the HD 800 for well recorded EDM. Just some constructive criticism : while writing a review / feedback on HD 800 it is more important to mention what amp & dac was used than what music was used IMHO (If all three (amp, dac, music) are mentioned then awesome)


----------



## BournePerfect

silverears said:


> 90's guy here.  I'm a fan of the music style of the 90's, but don't find too many good recording besides the unplugged.  Smashing Pumpkins are pretty good rock recordings.  Actually, the Cure isn't bad recording wise, and love the music style. My music taste has drastically changed when I went HiFi(maybe it's the age
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Radiohead has EXCELLENT recordings-and sound absolutely ridiculous on the HD800s. Pearl Jam (Rearview) is not far behind either. Both seem to be mastered better than the Pumpkins (reissues aside), although I much prefer the SP over those two. Dire Straits recordings are all top notch as well, and are revelatory on the HD800s in a proper rig.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## kamalz

pearljam50000 said:


> Is it possible to live with the O2/ODAC with the HD800? because i read in many posts here that it rivals much more expensive gear.
> So basicaly my question is, is it possible to enjoy, say 90% of the HD800 sound with a budget rig or is it a waste of time and money? Thanks.
> 
> Edit: good info the replys, thanks, but it's still hard to decide because some yes, and others say no


 

   IMO The  budgeted amp that paired well is crack .
   Although mine, having caps changed & speedball installed,
   i still like stock power tube though i have the brown base GEC


----------



## DMax99

Mine has arrived today.. Yay!


----------



## 62ohm

bourneperfect said:


> Radiohead has EXCELLENT recordings-and sound absolutely ridiculous on the HD800s. Pearl Jam (Rearview) is not far behind either. Both seem to be mastered better than the Pumpkins (reissues aside), although I much prefer the SP over those two. Dire Straits recordings are all top notch as well, and are revelatory on the HD800s in a proper rig.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 I have a Pearl Jam album and yes it does sound astounding with HD800s, guess I'll have to give Radiohead a shot.


----------



## BournePerfect

Just get the Best of Radiohead album-pretty much covers all the big ones-good if you're new to them. A particualar one that astounds with the HD800s technical prowess and soundstage is Street Spirit (Fade Out). Really though any RH song just simply gels w/ the Senns imo. Enjoy.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Canadian411

dmax99 said:


> Mine has arrived today.. Yay!




Congratulations!! Happy listening


----------



## UNIFi

punit said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 V200/V800 Combo was what used. It sounded _acceptable_ to my ears even out of a "lowly" Audio GD 15.32.


----------



## MickeyVee

I really wouldn't knock down the budget stuff with the HD800.  Just for giggles last night, I ran the FiiO X5 DAP line out into the Schiit Vali with the HD800 and was pleasantly surprised... dynamic, engaging and fun!


----------



## JamieMcC

Hi guys looking for some guidance on pricing with regard to purchasing a little used late 2013 pair of HD800's would £650 be considered a fair price?
  
 TIA
  
 Jamie


----------



## TwoEars

Very much so. That's a bargain.


----------



## LugBug1

jamiemcc said:


> Hi guys looking for some guidance on pricing with regard to purchasing a little used late 2013 pair of HD800's would £650 be considered a fair price?
> 
> TIA
> 
> Jamie


 
 Great price, snap em up!


----------



## Priidik

Bottlehead Mainline has been praised here with HD800, but
 can anyone share impressions of
  
 BH Mainline vs  any of the following:
  
 GS-X mk2
 Taurus mk2
 CMA800R
 Liquid Glass
 DNA Sonett
 DNA Stratus
 Balancing Act (BA)
  
 or other ToTL 
  
 Is it on the same league with say DNA Stratus or BA?


----------



## verber

priidik said:


> Bottlehead Mainline has been praised here with HD800, but
> can anyone share impressions of
> 
> BH Mainline vs  any of the following:
> ...


 
  
 I have heard most of those amplifiers with the HD800 except for mainline or the Liquid Glass). None would be a mistake. At that level it's going to be a very personal preference. My favorite have been GS-X mk2 because it just gets out of the way and lets the HD800 do all it can, plus is extremely versatile. The BA (and a modified EC Super 7)  were tied as my second favorite.  They didn't seem quite as transparent as the GS-X but they rounded off the HD800 just the slightest bit, while still maintaining the agility that I so love (and many tube amps hide).  Personally, I hate the hassle of tubes and the temptation to get into tube rolling, so the GS-X was the obvious choice for me.
  


mickeyvee said:


> I really wouldn't knock down the budget stuff with the HD800.  Just for giggles last night, I ran the FiiO X5 DAP line out into the Schiit Vali with the HD800 and was pleasantly surprised... dynamic, engaging and fun!


 
  
 To use the often quoted line.  The HD800 scales really well.  At the $1800 price point,  I wrote that the HE-500 + the right electronics might be my preference.  That's because I think $300 for DAC and amp *might* hold the HD800 back enough that significantly better DAC/Amp might let the HE-500 catch up. But from a couple hundred dollars more, $2k and on, I don't think there is anything that can match the HD800 + electronics until you hit $7k for just the amp and headphones (e.g. Stax SR-009).
  
 --Mark


----------



## TwoEars

> Originally Posted by *verber* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> None would be a mistake. At that level it's going to be a very personal preference.


 
  
 I think it's hard to overemphasize this part. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  
 BTW - I agree with your reasoning concerning systems and their price points. The HD800 needs some good gear behind it to really shine, otherwise I prefer other headphones. Or is that a "personal preference" too?


----------



## magiccabbage

priidik said:


> Bottlehead Mainline has been praised here with HD800, but
> can anyone share impressions of
> 
> BH Mainline vs  any of the following:
> ...


 
 Is the mainline 1199 dollars for the kit or for the finished product?


----------



## Rossliew

The HD800 with my Little Dot Mk 3 sounds absolutely wonderful - ONLY if you love tube rolling. The versatility of this little amp with tube rolling is astounding and the HD800 will gladly scale along with it. The best part is you don't really have to spend too much on a pairing amp and most tubes which provide decent sounds are relatively affordable.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Mark have you tried the seen HDVD 600 OR 800 AS AN AMP
al


----------



## rydenfan

verber said:


> I have heard most of those amplifiers with the HD800 except for mainline or the Liquid Glass). None would be a mistake. At that level it's going to be a very personal preference. My favorite have been GS-X mk2 because it just gets out of the way and lets the HD800 do all it can, plus is extremely versatile. The BA (and a modified EC Super 7)  were tied as my second favorite.  They didn't seem quite as transparent as the GS-X but they rounded off the HD800 just the slightest bit, while still maintaining the agility that I so love (and many tube amps hide).  Personally, I hate the hassle of tubes and the temptation to get into tube rolling, so the GS-X was the obvious choice for me.
> 
> 
> To use the often quoted line.  The HD800 scales really well.  At the $1800 price point,  I wrote that the HE-500 + the right electronics might be my preference.  That's because I think $300 for DAC and amp *might* hold the HD800 back enough that significantly better DAC/Amp might let the HE-500 catch up. But from a couple hundred dollars more, $2k and on, I don't think there is anything that can match the HD800 + electronics until you hit $7k for just the amp and headphones (e.g. Stax SR-009).
> ...


 
 Can you tell me why you didn't like about the Taurus Mk.2?
  
 I have one now and trying to decide if going with a Stratus of Eddie Currant 2A3 Mk.II is worth it.


----------



## TwoEars

rydenfan said:


> Can you tell me why you didn't like about the Taurus Mk.2?
> 
> I have one now and trying to decide if going with a Stratus of Eddie Currant 2A3 Mk.II is worth it.


 
  
 You can get a cheaper tube amp first "to get a feel for the flavor".
  
 Second hand DNA Sonett 1's are selling cheap here on head-fi and are wonderful with the HD800. Fast, dynamic, transparent, and with a big soundstage.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

priidik said:


> Bottlehead Mainline has been praised here with HD800, but
> can anyone share impressions of
> 
> BH Mainline vs  any of the following:
> ...


 
  
 The Liquid Glass pairs beautifully with the HD800. Most tubes sound very good to excellent.  A few are extraordinary (Siemens Cca; Amperex Pinched Waists).


----------



## rydenfan

twoears said:


> You can get a cheaper tube amp first "to get a feel for the flavor".
> 
> Second hand DNA Sonett 1's are selling cheap here on head-fi and are wonderful with the HD800. Fast, dynamic, transparent, and with a big soundstage.


 
 Thank, good suggestion. I also own a Woo WA6SE which I plan to try as well. I am very interested in the stratus and the wait time seems to continue to grow. So buying a Sonnett to check out may make a lot of sense


----------



## verber

rydenfan said:


> Can you tell me why you didn't like about the Taurus Mk.2?
> 
> I have one now and trying to decide if going with a Stratus of Eddie Currant 2A3 Mk.II is worth it.


 
  
 As I said earlier to the list you provided: None of those amplifier would be a mistake, they would all be excellent. At that level (I was talking SQ, not price or performance/cost) it's going to be a very personal preference.  There was nothing I recall disliking about the Taurus... or any of the other amplifiers. I could have been happy with any of them.  Actually, I could have been happy with my Headamp GS-1... until I heard the GS-X mk2,  Super 7, and BA. I first listened to these amplifiers within a few weeks of each other. They were the first amplifiers that really lifted my experience over the GS-1 (which I think of as a forgotten treasure).
  
I listened to other amplifiers after these three. Some in my home, some at meets or mini-meets. They may, or may not be as good as say the Super 7 for me because I expect adaptive hedonism is at play. To make me go wow, the Super 7 just needed to beat my GS-1.  Once I heard the Super 7, an amplifier would have to beat the Super 7 for me to say "wow", and even an amplifier which is just as good I might not rate as highly as the Super 7 because connected to the Super 7 is the first hearing which gives it some extra points.  [This is why I try to do blind A/B tests, though I didn't get a chance to do that will all of these amplifiers.]
  
 The GS-X mk2 seemed to let the HD800 be all that it can be.  It's strengths shine. It's weaknesses are still present but not encouraged.  (I typically don't try to characterize the HD800... I am not as good as others in putting what I hear into worlds. I think two reviews that capture most of what I hear are David Mahler's Battle of the Flagship Headphones and Innerfidelity's Comparing World Class Headphones: HD800.  I will give it a shoot here anyway...)
  
 Earlier someone said they thought of the HD800 as a race car.  I think that is a great analogy.  I think the GS-X mk2 more than any other amplifier I have used lets the race car go as fast as it can.  It's a thrilling and exciting ride, but it's not always the most comfortable. I think the tremble of the HD800 is amazing but slightly elevated. Lesser amps seem to either tone down the tremble which remove some of the air, agility, coherence, or they seem to make it worse resulting in the HD800 sounding bright and in the worst case sibilant.  I felt the GS-X mk2 just gave it to me, wire with gain.  Whatever was there I got to hear, clear as a bell.  Sometimes wondrous.  Sometimes annoying.  Always brutally  truthful.
  
 I like the Super 7 and BA for slightly different reasons.   I thought they took the slightest edge off the HD800 (the elevated tremble, it's somewhat unforgiving nature) at just a tiny cost to what I think of as transparency and agility.  As a result I found the HD800 easier to enjoy at the cost of feeling like I might sometimes be missing something.  What am I missing? Sometimes it's something that would be unpleasant.  Sometimes it might be an extremely subtle feature that would bring me delight.
  
 My personal preference is brute honesty, hence my love of the GS-X mk2.
  
 --Mark


----------



## preproman

Mark,
  
 I think you wanted to say "treble".  I could be wrong.


----------



## James-uk

My guess is in 100 years time the HD800 will sound like the HD800 on the best amp/dac of that time.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Only if they have the very best cables hahahaha. I just had to say that. !!! just kidding 
Al


----------



## James-uk

As much as I disagree with ALRAINBOW I bloody love his posts!!!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Cool I feel the same. Half baked patatoe is British as well cool guy too. 
Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

What makes us special is we have heart in our opinions Weather we agree or not .
Al


----------



## Dionysus

You should really give the HDVD800 or HDVA600 a listen, the amp section are killer, with the right DAC it's an end gamer.


----------



## James-uk

We do indeed . I just want everyone to be able to appreciate the hd800 without spending the same again on an amp/dac. It's just a headphone. It can be enjoyed by anyone and shouldn't be exclusive , this is the HD800 appreciation thread and I want EVERYONE to appreciate it.


----------



## BournePerfect

preproman said:


> Mark,
> 
> I think you wanted to say "treble".  I could be wrong.


 
  
 If I had a dollar for everytime someone used 'tremble' instead of 'treble' on this site...thought I was losing my mind at one point.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Tremble is the least of my issues lmao. 
Al


----------



## TwoEars

bourneperfect said:


> If I had a dollar for everytime someone used 'tremble' instead of 'treble' on this site...thought I was losing my mind at one point.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 It was spelt right the first time.
  
 I think you guys are going insane.


----------



## MickeyVee

To further explain my point (wrt to entry level source/amp with HD800), I'd take the HD800 Vali/Fiio X5 or Vali/Dragonfly 1.2 combo over anything that I've owned before including the HE500 or HD700 with the Bifrost/Lyr. YMMV 
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *verber* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> To use the often quoted line.  The HD800 scales really well.  At the $1800 price point,  I wrote that the HE-500 + the right electronics might be my preference.  That's because I think $300 for DAC and amp *might* hold the HD800 back enough that significantly better DAC/Amp might let the HE-500 catch up.


----------



## zerodeefex

Heck, you want affordable? Geek out 450 + Vali + HD800 or Geek out 1000 + HD800. 
  
 Sounds freaking AWESOME.


----------



## BournePerfect

*trem·ble*
  ˈtrembəl/
_verb_
 verb: *tremble*; 3rd person present: *trembles*; past tense: *trembled*; past participle: *trembled*; gerund or present participle: *trembling*

 *1*.
   shake involuntarily, typically as a result of anxiety, excitement, or frailty.
 "Isobel was trembling with excitement"

synonyms:shake, shake like a leaf, quiver, twitch, jerk; More   quaver, waver
 "Joe's hands were trembling"



 

   be in a state of extreme apprehension.
 "I *tremble to think that* we could ever return to conditions like these"

synonyms:be afraid, be frightened, be apprehensive, worry, shake in one's boots; More   quail, quake, shrink, blench
 "she trembled at the thought of what he had in store for her"



 


   (of a person's voice) sound unsteady or hesitant.


   shake or quiver slightly.
 "the earth trembled beneath their feet"

synonyms:shake, shudder, quake, wobble, rock, vibrate, move, sway, totter, teeter; More   judder
 "the entire building trembled"



 


 



 
_noun_
 noun: *tremble*; plural noun: *trembles*; plural noun: *the trembles*

 *1*.
   a trembling feeling, movement, or sound.
 "there was a slight tremble in his voice"

synonyms:tremor, shake, shakiness, trembling, quiver, quaking, twitch, vibration, unsteadiness More   "the slight tremble in her hands"



 

antonyms:steadiness
 




 *2*.
_informal_
 a physical or emotional condition marked by trembling.

   another term for milk sickness.


----------



## BournePerfect

*Treble* may refer to:
 In *music*:

Treble (sound), tones of high frequency or range, the counterpart of bass
Treble clef, a symbol used to indicate the pitch of written notes
Treble-cut or low-pass filter, which attenuates high frequencies while passing low frequencies
Treble or boy soprano, a young male singer with an unchanged voice in the soprano range
Treble (girl group), a three-piece girl group from the Netherlands
Treble, in change ringing, the bell with the highest pitch


----------



## rgs9200m

Base and Tremble are equally important.


----------



## rptlead

OC spider sense tingling... lol


----------



## Mortalcoil

rgs9200m said:


> Base and Tremble are equally important.


 

  Mostly on this album though


----------



## pearljam50000

ok, i revised my budget to 500$,If you guys had 500$ budget for amp+dac, what would you buy?
So many options, i'm confused.


im considering the geek out,or the audio gd 15.32 or Matrix M-Stage, but im open to anything really because i cant audition anything, just go by what people here recommend me.
Thank you ^_^


----------



## MickeyVee

Here are a couple of combo's i've used/heard and liked:
 - Schiit Bifrost (if you can live without USB) & Schiit Vali
 - Audioquest Dragonfly 1.2 & Schiit Vali 
 - Can substitue Bottlhead Crack or M-Stage
 - or look for a killer deal on a PS Audio DLIII for the DAC
  
 Let us know what you end up with.
  
 Quote:


pearljam50000 said:


> ok, i revised my budget to 500$,If you guys had 500$ budget for amp+dac, what would you buy?
> So many options, i'm confused.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## TwoEars

I would definitely get a bottlehead crack if you can. Either build yourself or find used here, there are a couple for sale.
  
 It's supposed to have a special magic with the HD800.


----------



## DMax99

twoears said:


> I would definitely get a bottlehead crack if you can. Either build yourself or find used here, there are a couple for sale.
> 
> It's supposed to have a special magic with the HD800.




How about the S.E.X?


----------



## TwoEars

Definitely also good. Look here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> ok, i revised my budget to 500$,If you guys had 500$ budget for amp+dac, what would you buy?
> So many options, i'm confused.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you could stretch your budget and find a used Dangerous Music Source. You're easily getting a 2k+ (M51, BDA-2) DAC performance in there and it drives the HD800 very well. Killer with monitors as well.
  
 You probably won't find one used, but if you do, I'd jump on it.


----------



## rydenfan

When I demo'd the 800's I had a massive soundstage. Yet on the pair I purchased as a result of the demo it doesn't seem nearly as wide. Everything else has remained the same. Any explanation for this?


----------



## preproman

What Amp and Dac did you demo them on?


----------



## rydenfan

preproman said:


> What Amp and Dac did you demo them on?




As I said...everything else has remained the same
It was a home demo on my Auralic stack


----------



## Frank I

I have the hd800 hooked up to the ak240 and  the Hugo  Some nice sound coming out of  this rig.


----------



## TwoEars

rydenfan said:


> When I demo'd the 800's I had a massive soundstage. Yet on the pair I purchased as a result of the demo it doesn't seem nearly as wide. Everything else has remained the same. Any explanation for this?


 
  
 placebo? break-in? unit-variance? choice of music? time of day? phase of the moon?


----------



## MacedonianHero

bourneperfect said:


> *trem·ble*
> ˈtrembəl/
> _verb_
> verb: *tremble*; 3rd person present: *trembles*; past tense: *trembled*; past participle: *trembled*; gerund or present participle: *trembling*
> ...


 
 Some headphones give me treble that make me tremble (I'm looking at you SR325is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## BournePerfect

Most Beyers and Ultrasones seem to do that to me.


----------



## DMax99

Which headphone has the next best soundstage after the hd800?


----------



## punit

dmax99 said:


> Which headphone has the next best soundstage after the hd800?


 

 Amongst the ones I have heard - T1


----------



## DMax99

punit said:


> Amongst the ones I have heard - T1




Thanks for the reply. I have auditioned a T1 before and for some reason they sounded very similar to the DT880 600ohm to my ears... Lol


----------



## TwoEars

All the AKG 700 models have pretty big soundstage, unfortunately they don't have that much else IMHO. Good for classical/jazz though.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

a little food for thought as all headphones only show a little soundstage and nothing like speakers . why look for sound stage and not great detail and timbre of music ?
al


----------



## elvergun

dmax99 said:


> Which headphone has the next best soundstage after the hd800?


 
  
 The MDR-F1 has a soundstage that bests the HD800.   The AKG K702 and the MDR-MA900 have a soundstage that is almost as good as the HD800s.


----------



## jchandler3

Hey HD800 owners, I need your help:

I currently have the HD650 with the HeadRoom Amp/DAC combo unit. I'd ultimately like to have the HD800 with similar caliber, balanced amp and DAC. 

Since I can't do it all at once, which order should I upgrade? I'm thinking I should start with DAC then amp then HD800, since the HD650 scales nicely and the 800s are notoriously picky. 

For what it's worth I'm ultimately thinking something like Gungnir + Ragnarok or HDVA600. 

Thanks!


----------



## Canadian411

I am getting lynx hilo for now. Then bakoon


----------



## TwoEars

jchandler3 said:


> Hey HD800 owners, I need your help:
> 
> I currently have the HD650 with the HeadRoom Amp/DAC combo unit. I'd ultimately like to have the HD800 with similar caliber, balanced amp and DAC.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Maybe you can provide some more feedback on what kind of sound you want to achieve. I have both HD650 and HD800 and I like both a lot but they are _very _different. Have you heard the HD800? What do you want to improve in your HD650 rig? What music do you listen to etc.
  


canadian411 said:


> I am getting lynx hilo for now. Then bakoon


 
  
 Oh... bakoon is very sexy. Well not the looks, but the tech is.


----------



## jchandler3

twoears said:


> Maybe you can provide some more feedback on what kind of sound you want to achieve. I have both HD650 and HD800 and I like both a lot but they are _very _different. Have you heard the HD800? What do you want to improve in your HD650 rig? What music do you listen to etc.


 
  
 Thanks for the quick response. Ultimately I'd like to have _both_ the 650 and 800 for different purposes. I adore the 650's warm, lush tone and laid-back presentation, but I often wish I had more analytical detail and energy. The 800's soundstage would be great, too. Basically the 650 for rock and electronic, and the 800 for classical, acoustic and jazz. _Or_ just choose the headphone for the mood. 
  
 Like I said, I know the 650 scales nicely (I've experienced it first-hand), and so I know upping the source and amp will be enjoyable along the way. My only concern about getting the 800 _first_ is (A) getting no immediate improvement with the 650 and (B) bottlenecking the 800.
  
 Is my thinking in-line?


----------



## TwoEars

Alright, here's what I would do.
  
 I would actually get the HD800's right away. You will be bottlenecking them, that's for sure. But they will still retain a lot of their flavor and the combo you have now is actually pretty good. You will also be in a better position to judge what kind of DAC/AMP you want to get for them.
  
 After that I would actually get an inexpensive tube amp. Many people who start out thinking that they want to drive the HD800 with solid state end up going to tubes.... after a lot of money and trial and error. The Bottlehead Crack + Speedball is fantastic for the HD800 and will cost you next to nothing. You will get a fantastic combo in HD800 + crack amp.
  
 After that I would upgrade the DAC with something really nice.
  
 And finally if grow tired of the crack + speedball amp (which you very well may not) you can upgrade to a something more expensive.
  
 That's what I would do. I'm sure there are a million other ways to do it.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Two ears has nailed it for you. 
I beleave in getting the headphones 
Then amp 
Then DAC. 
The headphones are an endgame in headphones 
Next a good proven amp. Weather tubes it not. 
Last us a the DAC. And also think used on an amp and DAC 
People move up and good used is still good 
In my home I have the hd800 
The hdvd 800 
And a few dacs M7 , krell connect and just in the ps audio 
Direct stream. 
All of them are really good in pairing 
With the headphone and amp. 
Al


----------



## DMax99

elvergun said:


> The MDR-F1 has a soundstage that bests the HD800.   The AKG K702 and the MDR-MA900 have a soundstage that is almost as good as the HD800s.




Even better than the hd800? Wow! Are they easy to buy?


----------



## Rossliew

jchandler3 said:


> Thanks for the quick response. Ultimately I'd like to have _both_ the 650 and 800 for different purposes. I adore the 650's warm, lush tone and laid-back presentation, but I often wish I had more analytical detail and energy. The 800's soundstage would be great, too. Basically the 650 for rock and electronic, and the 800 for classical, acoustic and jazz. _Or_ just choose the headphone for the mood.
> 
> Like I said, I know the 650 scales nicely (I've experienced it first-hand), and so I know upping the source and amp will be enjoyable along the way. My only concern about getting the 800 _first_ is (A) getting no immediate improvement with the 650 and (B) bottlenecking the 800.
> 
> Is my thinking in-line?


 
 My 2 cents here : )
  
 I have the HD600 and HD800 (used to have a 650) and using a Little Dot Mk 3 to drive them both although with the 800, i don't spend anymore time with the 600. DAC is the modest Schiit Modi. To these ears, the HD800 sounds awesome with all genres I listen to - metal, rock, classical, pop, electronic, etc..it can be the one headphone to rule all. And the LD is very versatile with tube rolling which makes it fun to tweak your sound for different moods and different tunes. All in, a relatively inexpensive combo (that is until you start rolling some seriously expensive NOS tubes).


----------



## TwoEars

dmax99 said:


> Even better than the hd800? Wow! Are they easy to buy?


 
  
 Judging a headphone by soundstage alone is like judging women by their cup size.
  
 It can be quite captivating, but after a while you realize that there are other parts that actually matter.


----------



## DMax99

twoears said:


> Judging a headphone by soundstage alone is like judging women by their cup size.
> 
> It can be quite captivating, but after a while you realize that there are other parts that actually matter.




I'm NOT judging.. Just prefer the soundstage and the vocals atm.. That's why I'm trying to find out which phones have good ssoundstage. 

You can NEVER judge a head phone Anyways.. Since almost every one of them will sound different and people have DIFERENT tastes 

Talking about the analogy of a woman.. Some people prefers the cup size, some people prefers the face, and some people might prefer the rear end size.. So... All about personal preference... Plus... Probably be hard to find a PERFECT woman.. Lol


----------



## jchandler3

Thanks for the input, guys! Let the financial plotting commence...


----------



## TwoEars

dmax99 said:


> I'm NOT judging.. Just prefer the soundstage and the vocals atm.. That's why I'm trying to find out which phones have good ssoundstage.
> 
> You can NEVER judge a head phone Anyways.. Since almost every one of them will sound different and people have DIFERENT tastes
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm only joking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You could also try to find a pair of AKG K1000's. Hard to find collectors piece, but will most likely only increase in value.
  
 Or you could try this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/555263/foobar2000-dolby-headphone-config-comment-discuss
  
 Does interesting things with the soundstage which you might like!


----------



## elvergun

dmax99 said:


> Even better than the hd800? Wow! Are they easy to buy?


 
 They have been discontinued, so they are not easy to buy.  You can still find them used on ebay or Amazon.
  
 Quote:


twoears said:


> Judging a headphone by soundstage alone is like judging women by their cup size.
> 
> It can be quite captivating, but after a while you realize that there are other parts that actually matter.


 
  
 The F1's other parts (the ones that actually matter) are also quite engaging.  
  
 I find myself reaching for the F1 more often than the HD800.  The HD800 is more technically capable, but the F1 is something special.  The Sony didn't have a great following on Head-fi back in the day...I believe the reason for that is that the F1 is not a bass cannon (they have about the same amount of bass as the K702).


----------



## punit

twoears said:


> After that I would actually get an inexpensive tube amp. Many people who start out thinking that they want to drive the HD800 with solid state end up going to tubes.... after a lot of money and trial and error. The Bottlehead Crack + Speedball is fantastic for the HD800 and will cost you next to nothing. You will get a fantastic combo in HD800 + crack amp.


 
   
+1 for BHC. If you are not into DIY, then i would recommend DarkVoice 336SE as a nice budget alternative (there is a Mdrop happening on them right now).


----------



## LugBug1

Yeah the AKG Q/K7** do have a large soundstage area but the sound is distant and more 2 dimensional. The imaging is nowhere near as good as the HD800 for instrument placement and overall size and definition. The MDR MA900 soundstage is more of a gimmick in that it seems very open and airy but the actual image is quite compressed. The treble is rolled off but edgy at about 2k and there is no sub bass at all. Stay clear.
  
 To the guy that was concerned about upgrading from the 650's with his mid-fi set up - I would say that any set up that you happy with the 650's plugged in to, the hd800 plugged in will sound a lot better. So yes I would buy the headphones first then look to eventually upgrade amp and dac. But theres no hurry as the HD800 are a lot more versatile than its reputation would have it. It's just some folks take a while to adjust to higher fidelity Anyways, they are great for EQ'ing if you find them lacking or edgy because of a lower end source.


----------



## Maxvla

alrainbow said:


> a little food for thought as all headphones only show a little soundstage and nothing like speakers . why look for sound stage and not great detail and timbre of music ?
> al



That's pretty short sighted. Creating the space is the most important part of music, IMO. If you don't start with at least an attempt to create reality, the timbre/etc falls flat anyway. That's like worrying about graphics in a video game without developing an engaging story.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

We all have our likes 
It was just my opinion. And a video game that has great graphics is better thAn the plot. 
It's eye candy for me. But again it's what I like 
The HE6 is more like speakers than the hd800 but the hd800 is soo much more detailed 
It's just crazy to say one is better. It's all our very own likes
Al


----------



## preproman

alrainbow said:


> We all have our likes
> It was just my opinion. And a video game that has great graphics is better thAn the plot.
> It's eye candy for me. But again it's what I like
> The HE6 is more like speakers than the hd800 but the hd800 is soo much more detailed
> ...


 
  
 When you say "soo much more detailed" - are you saying you hear things on the HD800 that you don't on other headphones?


----------



## Canadian411

Hmmm weird I thought HE6 had more details. .. puzzled.


----------



## punit

preproman said:


> When you say "soo much more detailed" - are you saying you hear things on the HD800 that you don't on other headphones?


 

 Think what he means is (this is based on my personal experience , please correct me if I am wrong Al) that the HE 6 & HD 800 both shine a clear light on the minute elements of a track so they can be seen clearly, but the HE 6 light is the morning pleasant light whereas the HD 800 is the afternoon bright sunlight. So if the song is not recorded properly you can still listen to it on HE 6 (you know its not recorded well but but can still listen) but on HD 800 you tend to skip to the next track, its brutal that way.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/493214/hifiman-he-6-planar-magnetic-headphone/13380#post_10524912


----------



## TwoEars

punit said:


> .... the HE 6 & HD 800 both shine a clear light on the minute elements of a track so they can be seen clearly, but the HE 6 light is the morning pleasant light whereas the HD 800 is the afternoon bright sunlight...


 
  
 Have you been writing anything for "The Absolute Sound" lately?  You're starting to sound like a professional.


----------



## punit

twoears said:


> Have you been writing anything for "The Absolute Sound" lately?  You're starting to sound like a professional.


 

 Alas as much as I may try I can never write as well as Srajan from 6moons


----------



## LugBug1

alrainbow said:


> It was just my opinion. And a video game that has great graphics is better thAn the plot.


 
 Hang about, Al's is just as good!  
  
 Some fab metaphors happening here..


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Punit is saying what I said much nicer but the same. . As good as they both are I would have to say the details award goes to the hd800. Now the he 6 has more body but is also more like speakers as such it looses a little of the close up detail in achieving this. . 
This is a side by side listing of the same ttracks and same amp and DAC . Again just my observation. Now as compared
To the stax 009 with has even more details and even less body shows me the high detail goes toa thinner presentation. 
Al


----------



## punit

alrainbow said:


> Now the he 6 has more body but is also more like speakers as such it looses a little of the close up detail in achieving this. .


 
 Bingo....I was a speaker guy before & always wished I could listen to music sitting very close to my speakers inorder to catch the micro details but It was always a trade off between soundstage & extreme clarity : If you sit close you do not get optimal sound stage & imaging but if you sit at the right distance then you loose out on the micro details unless you pump the volume up (which you can't always do ). He 6 feels like I am listening to speakers attached to a head band. As Al says: its bcos of the body, especially on the Bass.
 But i differ with Al in that I feel it dosen't loose any detail but they are not brought to the forefront , like the HD 800.
  
 For example just yesterday I was listening to a track which had a sharp treble based percussion happening in the background , on the HD 800 it sounded very rough  & my mind was just focussing on that sound & I got irritated. I tried it with HE 6 i could hear the same sound but it just about blended in the background & wasn't as irritating & I could listen to the track.


----------



## preproman

punit said:


> Think what he means is (this is based on my personal experience , please correct me if I am wrong Al) that the HE 6 & HD 800 both shine a clear light on the minute elements of a track so they can be seen clearly, but the HE 6 light is the morning pleasant light whereas the HD 800 is the afternoon bright sunlight. So if the song is not recorded properly you can still listen to it on HE 6 (you know its not recorded well but but can still listen) but on HD 800 you tend to skip to the next track, its brutal that way.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/493214/hifiman-he-6-planar-magnetic-headphone/13380#post_10524912


 
  
 I'm trying to dissect your analogy here.  On the same rig with the same recordings my ears cannot hear more detail either way.  Soundstage yes HD800 clarity = tie, resolution = tie, Imagaing = Big Band - HD800, Trio Jazz - HE-6.
  
 Are you guys saying the brighter the headphones are the more detail it has?


----------



## punit

Hmm...maybe I need to get a F1J..


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I have a few giid amps for the he 6 and hd800. 
But your explanation is spot on. 
The amps are far easery to find but music 
And the DAC to portray it is much harder. 
I think most get the headphone and hate it. And from there they try to find an amp 
That makes sound good. Now this is true but the DAC and music can make a great amp harsh as well 
The hd800 sound really giid with the krell I had 
Also the woo wa 5 and the hdvd 800. It's then the music and DAC 
To make this complete. Bu even the hdvd800 with an offramp or AP1/PP makes the rig sing with good music. 
It's not a great DAC it's very clear but a little thin 
But look what's needed. Niw recently I have desided to do a music server win 2012. 
As such I also bought a PPA USB PCI express card and the red PPA USB cable. 
I had an audio GD linear psu from the USB adaptor he was selling 
A while back. All I can say is wow what an improvement 
Al


----------



## Amictus

Had an HD800 moment there: Debussy, Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune - OSR, Ansermet. The headphones melted away and I wasn't in front of loudspeakers, I was in the concert hall. Thank you, Sennheiser. Thank you, Norbert Lehmann.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Not sure if I posted this already. 
I have two reccomendatikns for music nervana they are both dsd . 
Dsd 128 opus 3 no 3 
Elvis 57 Dsd 64 but it must be from acoustic sounds . 
These two records are from original master analog remixed . They are absolutely as good as it gets. A must to have the Elvis is 40 but the opus is only 13 . Buy them both or buy one that will lead you to buy the next one. 
Someone buy it and post results .
Al


----------



## icebear

amictus said:


> Had an HD800 moment there: Debussy, Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune - OSR, Ansermet. The headphones melted away and I wasn't in front of loudspeakers, I was in the concert hall. Thank you, Sennheiser. Thank you, Norbert Lehmann.


 

 Thanks for mentioning this recording.
 I have to admit I am not familiar at all with Ernest Ansermet but soon will take a listen. I hope I'll get to the same state as you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## HPiper

Just got my HD800's today and had a quick question. About how much burn-in time do these need? They sound fantastic now but I can tell the bass is just a bit flabby and loose at the moment (but still better than my HD600's).


----------



## Amictus

icebear said:


> Thanks for mentioning this recording.
> I have to admit I am not familiar at all with Ernest Ansermet but soon will take a listen. I hope I'll get to the same state as you
> 
> 
> ...


 
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ernest-Ansermet-French-Music/dp/B00DT2322E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400303969&sr=8-1&keywords=ansermet
  
 I tried to paste the bitly-shortened address for the above, but it got translated back again somehow! Anyway, that's the box of Ansermet in French music (32 discs, £49.50 on Amazon UK) that I'm ploughing through at the moment. Decca got some pretty marvellous sounds out of Victoria Hall, Geneva in the 1950s and 1960s - sounds that suit the HD800s very well!


----------



## punit

Had posted a HD 800 - WA22 related post in the Woo Audio thread, though I'd link it here too :
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite/29910#post_10552915


----------



## Priidik

hpiper said:


> Just got my HD800's today and had a quick question. About how much burn-in time do these need? They sound fantastic now but I can tell the bass is just a bit flabby and loose at the moment (but still better than my HD600's).


 
 Bass flabbiness is probably down to amp synergy, usually about 100h are recommended for burn-in time. My units bass didn't change, maybe hf smoothed out a bit. Not as drastic effect at all as with some other headphones for me.


----------



## kazsud

priidik said:


> Bass flabbiness is probably down to amp synergy, usually about 100h are recommended for burn-in time. My units bass didn't change, maybe hf smoothed out a bit. Not as drastic effect at all as with some other headphones for me.




+1


----------



## TwoEars

Bass on the HD800 is definitely not flabby in most cases, that's the amp doing that. For instance the Burson HA-160 can make the HD800 a bit flabby.
  
 When amped right the HD800 bass is one of the tightest and most precise on the market.


----------



## nigeljames

twoears said:


> Bass on the HD800 is definitely not flabby in most cases, that's the amp doing that. For instance the Burson HA-160 can make the HD800 a bit flabby.
> 
> *When amped right the HD800 bass is one of the tightest and most precise on the market.*


 
  
 Ay men to that


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Plus one here too. The details are up there with a stax 009 rig 
When all is correct 
Al


----------



## Rossliew

twoears said:


> Bass on the HD800 is definitely not flabby in most cases, that's the amp doing that. For instance the Burson HA-160 can make the HD800 a bit flabby.
> 
> When amped right the HD800 bass is one of the tightest and most precise on the market.


 
 I'll raise to that !


----------



## HPiper

twoears said:


> Bass on the HD800 is definitely not flabby in most cases, that's the amp doing that. For instance the Burson HA-160 can make the HD800 a bit flabby.
> 
> When amped right the HD800 bass is one of the tightest and most precise on the market.


 

 To set everyone's mind at ease, it wasn't the amp or the headphones, it was the recording and the ability of the HD800 to reproduce bass notes my former headphones could only dream of.


----------



## Priidik

hpiper said:


> To set everyone's mind at ease, it wasn't the amp or the headphones, it was the recording and the ability of the HD800 to reproduce bass notes my former headphones could only dream of.


 
 I've been  there!


----------



## TwoEars

Yupp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It takes a while do get used to the bass of the HD800 but then almost everything else sounds flabby in comparison! The Audeze headphone have a bit more bass with most amps, but in my experience the bass _quality_ on the HD800 is actually higher.
  
 Sabre chip DAC + H800 = Insane bass texture


----------



## ALRAINBOW

i have a mytek its dsd is really good but i never liked the pcm on it. but the details are awesome as you stated. i just did the ppa usb card and linear psu 
and the ppa red cable it has improved the pcm on the dac . 
al


----------



## Priidik

When HD800 came out i presumed that these are a hair better than K701  i then had.
 When i first listened to HD800s, it was with Yulong D100 back then and by the bass performance alone i decided to get a pair ASAP. 
 Now i need an exceptional amp..  i'm dying to hear more BH Mainline comparison with other ToTL amps.
  
 Hey TwoEars: how's bass from Sonett vs V200 ?


----------



## jsgraha

alrainbow said:


> i have a mytek its dsd is really good but i never liked the pcm on it. but the details are awesome as you stated. i just did the ppa usb card and linear psu
> and the ppa red cable it has improved the pcm on the dac .
> al




If you've run a server 2012, you may give audiophile optimiser and jplay a go as well 

It's another improvement IMO

For me, I like the bass impact on sabre chip dac such as Vega, but bass texture is nicer on multibit DAC though.


----------



## TwoEars

priidik said:


> When HD800 came out i presumed that these are a hair better than K701  i then had.
> When i first listened to HD800s, it was with Yulong D100 back then and by the bass performance alone i decided to get a pair ASAP.
> Now i need an exceptional amp..  i'm dying to hear more BH Mainline comparison with other ToTL amps.
> 
> Hey TwoEars: how's bass from Sonett vs V200 ?


 
  
 The V200 beats the Sonett for bass, but that's a common thing with tubes. Usually solid state has better bass.
  
 I have to say though that for a tube amp the Sonett has pretty good bass IMHO, the Sonett is not a "tubey" amp and all the bass information and texture is there. You're just lacking that last bit of slam when compared to SS.
  
 The V200 is a fantastic SS amp for the HD800 but I should say that overall I prefer the Sonett, it has much better soundstage and "air". Music feels more _right_ on it. The fact that the bass has a tad less slam and impact and high volume is not something I think about.


----------



## TT600R

bourneperfect said:


> Just get the Best of Radiohead album-pretty much covers all the big ones-good if you're new to them. A particualar one that astounds with the HD800s technical prowess and soundstage is Street Spirit (Fade Out). Really though any RH song just simply gels w/ the Senns imo. Enjoy.
> 
> -Daniel


 

 That song is really giving goose bumps when listening !


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Hello post a link to a great radio head album 
Please 
Are there any hi Rez downloads for them 
From acoustic sounds ??


----------



## rydenfan

alrainbow said:


> Hello post a link to a great radio head album
> Please
> Are there any hi Rez downloads for them
> From acoustic sounds ??




Start with OK Computer and Kid A


----------



## BournePerfect

OK Computer is recorded kinda hot imo. Go with the Best Of album, which has been mastered better and has most of the hits.
  
 TT600R: Incredible huh! I also really like Lucky, Idioteque, 2+2=5 and Fake Plastic Trees. These particularly sound quite amazing on the HD800s imo. I honestly was never that big of a fan of RH until I heard them on the Senns-just really brings out every layered nuance that these guys produced.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## icebear

amictus said:


> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ernest-Ansermet-French-Music/dp/B00DT2322E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400303969&sr=8-1&keywords=ansermet
> 
> I tried to paste the bitly-shortened address for the above, but it got translated back again somehow! Anyway, that's the box of Ansermet in French music (32 discs, £49.50 on Amazon UK) that I'm ploughing through at the moment. Decca got some pretty marvellous sounds out of Victoria Hall, Geneva in the 1950s and 1960s - sounds that suit the HD800s very well!


 

 I found the Debussy recording here :
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B004FWZ5LI/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new
  
 and will start with just that before diving head first into the box set, provided I like his style. Some 50 ties and 60 ties recordings have a great spaciousness because they were not so closely miked. Consequently the "being in the hall" illusion can be marvellous with the HD800.


----------



## MattTCG

Sorry, posted to wrong thread.


----------



## Eee Pee

Have a beer or three and figure it out! 
  
  
  
  
  
  
 1


----------



## ALRAINBOW

The two rigs are very different one is a detail monster 
And the other is recessed. Hi must have your own ideals to please 
And asking strangers on here to decide for you 
Is just a really bad idea 
Al


----------



## pearljam50000

Is there anything better on the market than HD800?


----------



## BournePerfect

No.


----------



## paradoxper

pearljam50000 said:


> Is there anything better on the market than HD800?


 
 It really depends on your preferences. Any of the flagships should be considered. That is, don't ask others and experience things for yourself.


----------



## Eee Pee

I might contest the Senn 600 is more pleasing sometimes, but the 800 is tough to beat.


----------



## TwoEars

eee pee said:


> I might contest the Senn 600 is more pleasing sometimes, but the 800 is tough to beat.


 
  
 Glad to see anoher one who likes the HD600/650. People keep underestimating them IMHO.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My HD650 sounds fantastic with my Anedio D1 and Sonett. I'm thinking about picking up a pair of HD600 again, I had a pair a long time ago. Compared to HD800 they're great for a little bit more casual listening or poor recordings.
  
 But yes.... Audeze, T1, HD800, HE-6, probably the new Oppo... they're all great. Just different tastes really.
  
 I prefer my HD650 to the Audeze headphones... some people probably think I'm crazy but hey like I said. Personal tastes.


----------



## magiccabbage

twoears said:


> Glad to see anoher one who likes the HD600/650. People keep underestimating them IMHO....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I respect that, and its nice that you can say it and not get slatted for it. I really miss my hd650


----------



## Eee Pee

magiccabbage said:


> and its nice that you can say it and not get slatted for it.


 
 You didn't give anyone much time.


----------



## magiccabbage

eee pee said:


> You didn't give anyone much time.


 
 hahahaha - very true. I put a stop to all that straight away. Let the man have his say. As Al green would say "Testify"!


----------



## kazsud

bourneperfect said:


> OK Computer is recorded kinda hot imo. Go with the Best Of album, which has been mastered better and has most of the hits.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Best of albums are tweaked/compressed even more in mastering to level out.


----------



## BournePerfect

Not sure if you're talking generalities here? Because the Best Of RH songs sound definitely better than the ones on OK Computer-enough that I never really went back...
  
 Same thing with Pear Jam's Rearview Mirror best of album-but most of those were remixed for a big improvement anyway. Listening to Ten is just weak in comparison imo.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## PinkLed

Hey fellow audiophiles, 
  
 I know there are countless threads on this topic, some outdated, but I am looking for a recommendation for a high value solid state amp, preferably within the 600-1000$ range for my HD800s. Tube rolling my Lyr has become too expensive, and lets face it, all those beautiful tubes will be gone soon or insanely expensive with the ever growing popularity of this hobby. I know the range I'm asking for is a far cry from an end game setup but I appreciate your input.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

My vote and what I use us the hdvd600. 
Find a used one and maybe it will fit your budget. 
It is the best choice in my opinion. 
Al


----------



## Canadian411

I wish hdvd800 drops to $1000 so I can afford one 

Waiting....


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Hdvd600


----------



## holeout

Maybe you can give the Chord Hugo a shot at ~ $1,600. You get an amp with enough power to drive the HD800 beautifully plus a world class dac that can rival others costing 3X +. Coming off my desktop setup with ALO SS and Mass Kobo 394, I don't feel losing much when I pair the HD800 with the Hugo on the go.


----------



## PinkLed

I currently want to try and hold onto the Bifrost and upgrade that at a later date. Do you think the HDVA 600 will work well with it?


----------



## Failed Engineer

Try to find a used Headamp GS-1.  That's one of the best SS amps around $1000 for the HD800, and it's high value, if you look at it's resale.  If you decide you don't like it, you'll sell it for what you paid, assuming it's typical market prices.


----------



## Canadian411

failed engineer said:


> Try to find a used Headamp GS-1.  That's one of the best SS amps around $1000 for the HD800, and it's high value, if you look at it's resale.  If you decide you don't like it, you'll sell it for what you paid, assuming it's typical market prices.


 
  
 Oh that's a good idea, I might try. I never really liked Headamps (to me just ugly amps) but GS1 look way better than GS2 for sure.
 Thanks for the suggestion. Great !


----------



## Eee Pee

There's always the Schiit Mjolnir…


----------



## 62ohm

What about the V200? I heard it also pairs well with HD800.


----------



## philo50

original Soloist


----------



## Canadian411

OMG so many good amps  thank you guys !


----------



## verber

pinkled said:


> Hey fellow audiophiles,
> 
> I know there are countless threads on this topic, some outdated, but I am looking for a recommendation for a high value solid state amp, preferably within the 600-1000$ range for my HD800s. Tube rolling my Lyr has become too expensive, and lets face it, all those beautiful tubes will be gone soon or insanely expensive with the ever growing popularity of this hobby. I know the range I'm asking for is a far cry from an end game setup but I appreciate your input.


 
  
  
 +1 to the suggestion of the Headamp GS-1.  Other options that would be worth a listen (though I personally don't like them as much as the GS-1) include Violectric V200, used Bryston BHA-1 should be under $1k. It might sound funny to recommend a portable amplifier, but I also really liked the Headamp Pico Power.  Thought it was surprisingly similar to the GS-1.
  
  


holeout said:


> Maybe you can give the Chord Hugo a shot at ~ $1,600. You get an amp with enough power to drive the HD800 beautifully plus a world class dac that can rival others costing 3X +. Coming off my desktop setup with ALO SS and Mass Kobo 394, I don't feel losing much when I pair the HD800 with the Hugo on the go.


 
  
 The Hugo is $2400... that's *way above* requested price range.  It's a great unit and gives the best sound of any portable system I have heard, but I would classify the amplifier section as good, not great.  There is a very noticeable sound improvement when going from the hugo to a top amplifier like the headlamp gs-x mk2.


----------



## PinkLed

Same thanks guys keep em comin!
  
 The HDVA 600 does have an unbalanced rca input if Im not mistaken though right? And Im a bit confused by the two 1/4" jacks on the front. Is one higher impedance and one lower impedance?
  
http://en-us.sennheiser.com/headphone-audio-amplification-hdva-600-acoustic
  
 They have the input data but no output data, at least from what I can find.


----------



## subtle

holeout said:


> Maybe you can give the Chord Hugo a shot at ~ $1,600. You get an amp with enough power to drive the HD800 beautifully plus a world class dac that can rival others costing 3X +. Coming off my desktop setup with ALO SS and Mass Kobo 394, I don't feel losing much when I pair the HD800 with the Hugo on the go.


 
  
 If I could find a Hugo at that price I would definitely buy one just to try it out.
  
 At the $2350 price I'm seeing in most places I'll pass.


----------



## holeout

Apologize for the typo. The cost of my Hugo came to ~$1,900.


----------



## Canadian411

I guess there is no perfect amp/dac..
  
 I really try to like the following amps/dac but little thing doesn't make me to pull the trigger..
  
 HDVD800 - no DSD, at $2000 should have one
 HDVD600 - no USB input
 GS-X mk2 - Ugly (no offense but just ugly)
 Burson - Had hum issue, the volume knob comes out easily
 Hugo Chord - pricey for me and that color code makes it look like a toy, and weird volume knob
  
 I guess I am too picky,,


----------



## MattTCG

Can someone clarify a question for me please. Is the Anaxilus mod still being used for the newest hd800 or is this something that was done primarily for the older hd800's? 
  
 thanks...


----------



## kantana

holeout said:


> Apologize for the typo. The cost of my Hugo came to ~$1,900.


 
 Same here, assume it was 14,800 HKD?


----------



## magiccabbage

subtle said:


> If I could find a Hugo at that price I would definitely buy one just to try it out.
> 
> At the $2350 price I'm seeing in most places I'll pass.


 
 I hate the look of the thing, it looks like a child's toy! Jesus it's horrible and tiny, that shinny aluminium finish. YUCK. 
  
  
_no offense meant of course _


----------



## kantana

holeout said:


> Maybe you can give the Chord Hugo a shot at ~ $1,600. You get an amp with enough power to drive the HD800 beautifully plus a world class dac that can rival others costing 3X +. Coming off my desktop setup with ALO SS and Mass Kobo 394, I don't feel losing much when I pair the HD800 with the Hugo on the go.


 
 I find the HD800 sounding brilliant from the Hugo but I've never tried desktop amps for my headphones before.  How much improvement can I expect if I feed the Hugo to a desktop amp?


----------



## preproman

First time I've heard "ANYONE" call Justin amps (GS-X mk2) ugly.  To me the GS-X mk2 and the BHSE are gorgeous works of art.


----------



## seb7

canadian411 said:


> I guess there is no perfect amp/dac..
> 
> I really try to like the following amps/dac but little thing doesn't make me to pull the trigger..
> 
> ...


 
  
 The HDVA600 doesn't have a USB input because it's an amp only. No DAC.


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> First time I've heard "ANYONE" call Jasons amps (GS-X mk2) ugly.  To me the GS-X mk2 and the BHSE are gorgeous works of art.


 
 were you referring to me??? I meant the hugo. The GSX and BHSE are gorgeous!
  
_and this is coming form a guy with a degree in fine art _


----------



## PinkLed

canadian411 said:


> I guess there is no perfect amp/dac..
> 
> I really try to like the following amps/dac but little thing doesn't make me to pull the trigger..
> 
> ...


 
 What do you mean by no usb input. I thought the HDVD 600 was just an amp.


----------



## Canadian411

pinkled said:


> What do you mean by no usb input. I thought the HDVD 600 was just an amp.




Ya I am aware of that, so 600 and 800 have the same tech spec beside the dac?


----------



## MattTCG

preproman said:


> First time I've heard "ANYONE" call Jasons amps (GS-X mk2) ugly.  To me the GS-X mk2 and the BHSE are gorgeous works of art.


 
  
 Got to see and hear this amp at the Atlanta mini meet. Sounds beautiful, looks beautiful. Wonderful pairing with the hd800.


----------



## Canadian411

magiccabbage said:


> were you referring to me??? I meant the hugo. The GSX and BHSE are gorgeous!
> 
> _and this is coming form a guy with a degree in fine art _




No not you. It's me 
I am the first guy said that gsmk2 is ugly. 

Maybe because I don't have a degree in art.


----------



## PinkLed

canadian411 said:


> Ya I am aware of that, so 600 and 800 have the same tech spec beside the dac?


 
 Im wondering the same thing. By the price it seems as if it would be. Very curious about this. I've seen people praising the HDVD 800 for some time now and would love to try out the amp.


----------



## seb7

pinkled said:


> Im wondering the same thing. By the price it seems as if it would be. Very curious about this. I've seen people praising the HDVD 800 for some time now and would love to try out the amp.


 
  
 Everywhere I've read, people have claimed the amps are the same in both models..whether it's true or not I have no idea.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

as i am most likely confused , the question was for an amp . also the hdvd800 does dsd.as wel as pcm
i said the hdvd600 . 
al


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> as i am most likely confused , the question was for an amp . also the hdvd800 does dsd.as wel as pcm
> i said the hdvd600 .
> al





I am confused just in that amp area.
I read that 600 is better vice versa. 

I am going to do some study on these two amps.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

also why are people saying the amps are different . i asked sennhieser about this and they responded its the same amp in both. we need to get off this as the more people repeat this the more people read it and get confused with hear say.

as for the quality i have tried a bunch of amps and there is no best but the amp is very good and changes as the music does not having a sound of its own. this transparency is why i love it 
al


----------



## holeout

kantana said:


> I find the HD800 sounding brilliant from the Hugo but I've never tried desktop amps for my headphones before.  How much improvement can I expect if I feed the Hugo to a desktop amp?


 
 Mileage will vary depending on the amp, but IMO one should be looking at amps $2K+, more likely $3K+ TOTL amps to justify qualifiable improvements, otherwise, I feel it's just a side step.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

kantana said:


> I find the HD800 sounding brilliant from the Hugo but I've never tried desktop amps for my headphones before.  How much improvement can I expect if I feed the Hugo to a desktop amp?


 
  
  


holeout said:


> Mileage will vary depending on the amp, but IMO one should be looking at amps $2K+, more likely $3K+ TOTL amps to justify qualifiable improvements, otherwise, I feel it's just a side step.


 
  
 I've only had the Hugo a few days but there was a noticeable improvement when I fed it through my ALO Pan Am (a lot less than $2k). This was with both HD 800's and LCD-3's.


----------



## TwoEars

I'd recommend the violectric v200.
  
 Can be picked up quite cheap on the second hand market these days.
  
 It doesn't have the biggest soundstage compared to some top-of-the-line amps, but the tonality and overall synergy with the HD800 i excellent.


----------



## Maxvla

matttcg said:


> Can someone clarify a question for me please. Is the Anaxilus mod still being used for the newest hd800 or is this something that was done primarily for the older hd800's?
> 
> thanks...



The choice to mod is based on the user. The headphones themselves are almost identical from the first pair to the last.


----------



## Maxvla

magiccabbage said:


> I hate the look of the thing, it looks like a child's toy! Jesus it's horrible and tiny, that shinny aluminium finish. YUCK.
> 
> 
> _no offense meant of course _



It's actually silver painted plastic. Fisher Price anyone?


----------



## Eee Pee

So is the HD 800.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

magiccabbage said:


> I hate the look of the thing, it looks like a child's toy! Jesus it's horrible and tiny, that shinny aluminium finish. YUCK.
> 
> 
> _no offense meant of course _


 
  



maxvla said:


> It's actually silver painted plastic. Fisher Price anyone?


 
  
 C'mon guys, are you trying to win the Head-Fi fashion show?  You ain't wearin' the thing.  Who cares? It sounds great.


----------



## Maxvla

eee pee said:


> So is the HD 800.



There's a difference between plastic just to be cheap and plastic designed for acoustic reasons. The plastic casing on the Hugo has large gaps around the connectors which makes it look awful.


----------



## seb7

alrainbow said:


> also why are people saying the amps are different . i asked sennhieser about this and they responded its the same amp in both. we need to get off this as the more people repeat this the more people read it and get confused with hear say.


 
  
 Nobody said the amps are different.
 The question was asked if there was a difference between the amps in the hdvd800 and hdva600.
 The answer was no. And since you talked with Sennheiser you confirmed the answer.
 I see no spreading of false info or causing confusion here.


----------



## subtle

magiccabbage said:


> I hate the look of the thing, it looks like a child's toy! Jesus it's horrible and tiny, that shinny aluminium finish. YUCK.
> 
> 
> _no offense meant of course _


 
  
 I could care less what any component in my entire chain _looks _like.  All I care about is the sound.


----------



## holeout

r scott ireland said:


> I've only had the Hugo a few days but there was a noticeable improvement when I fed it through my ALO Pan Am (a lot less than $2k). This was with both HD 800's and LCD-3's.


 
 As I've said, mileage may vary. Maybe you can run the headphone output for a few more days and let us know how you feel. Amp/phones pairing is a complex matter as well as an art, add subjective personal preference to it then nothing is a closed deal. I'm sure many HD800 users prefer using tube amps (so do I), glad that you find the combination worked well. I'll be trying the Hugo/WA 7 again when the WA tube power supply comes in later this month.


----------



## subtle

preproman said:


> First time I've heard "ANYONE" call Jasons amps (GS-X mk2) ugly.  To me the GS-X mk2 and the BHSE are gorgeous works of art.


 
  
 Justin is confused as to why you're calling him Jason.


----------



## Canadian411

Lol childs toy. I can see that.
For sec I thought you were referring to hd800.

I think hd800 is fashionable enough to wear on the street, making beats crowd very jealous


----------



## Canadian411

subtle said:


> Justin is confused as to why you're calling him Jason.




Lol. This thread is confusing.

I feel like Monday today since yesterday was a statutory holiday, and I am uncoffeed... need a break.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

holeout said:


> As I've said, mileage may vary. Maybe you can run the headphone output for a few more days and let us know how you feel. Amp/phones pairing is a complex matter as well as an art, add subjective personal preference to it then nothing is a closed deal. I'm sure many HD800 users prefer using tube amps (so do I), glad that you find the combination worked well. I'll be trying the Hugo/WA 7 again when the WA tube power supply comes in later this month.


 
  
 Looking forward to hearing your impressions of the Hugo/WA7.
  
 I haven't even had the time yet to run Hugo through the Liquid Glass; that may be interesting.
  
 Perhaps it is just the tube coloration that I like, but I found that I liked the sound better through the amp.  I've also been running the same headphones through the headphone out on the Hugo.  But it's only been a few days, so we'll see.


----------



## preproman

subtle said:


> Justin is confused as to why you're calling him Jason.


 
  
 Huh.  your the only one that caught that


----------



## holeout

subtle said:


> I could care less what any component in my entire chain _looks _like.  All I care about is the sound.


 
 Well said. I wasn't impressed by the looks of the Hugo when I read about it, but when I saw the real thing in my hands with music feeding my ears, funny how the perception have changed. After 3 months of use, it's still growing on me.
  
 Quote:


magiccabbage said:


> I hate the look of the thing, it looks like a child's toy! Jesus it's horrible and tiny, that shinny aluminium finish. YUCK.
> 
> 
> _no offense meant of course _



  
 Non taken. Oh, btw, of course it's tiny (if you can call it that), it's meant to be portable!


----------



## magiccabbage

r scott ireland said:


> C'mon guys, are you trying to win the Head-Fi fashion show?  You ain't wearin' the thing.  Who cares? It sounds great.


 
 I suppose it doesn't matter to most but it would drive me crazy. I just couldn't buy it. It just has to look right if its over 2000 - heck even if it's 200 it still has to look good. 
  
  


subtle said:


> I could care less what any component in my entire chain _looks _like.  All I care about is the sound.


 
 Good for you. I just can't look the other way. It just doesn't suit my tastes


----------



## magiccabbage

edit


----------



## TwoEars

This thread went in a strange direction...


----------



## 62ohm

twoears said:


> This thread went in a strange direction...


 
  
 Always did, Always will...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

We all are passionate about our choices this erupts in arguing points that had nothing to do with the topic at hand. Lmao. 
Al


----------



## PinkLed

The HD800s look amazing none the less, fashion-fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## magiccabbage

back on topic so   ¬
  
 Anyone know good balanced cables for HD800? What would you guys recommend? Max budget - 500


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Buy the senn ones they are fine and copper. Or ted Allen from headphone lounge . His cables are really good and will save you money . I use all his stuff .
Al


----------



## TwoEars

I think the DHC cables are some of the more affordable ones for what you get in the states.
  
 Moon audio also makes nice ones.
  
 As do toxic cables in the uk.
  
 I'd personally go for pure copper cables myself.
  
 If you know what you're doing you can do pure silver.
  
 I'm not a big fan of mixing copper and silver, two materials with different electrical characteristics in the same cable? Hmmm... not sure how that's going to improve anything really. At least it's hard to make a scientific argument for it.


----------



## bearFNF

'Q' French silk is very nice:


----------



## longbowbbs

My Toxic Cable Silver Widow's are great balanced cables for the HD800's.....


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I am not a fan of balance cables but we all should have a set. As some amps topology just makes it a must .
Al


----------



## PinkLed

Have any of you tried the gungnir+mjolnir and the HDVD 800 with the HD800s and if so how do they stack up to each other? Which is more neutral, has wider sound stage ect. ?


----------



## kugino

magiccabbage said:


> back on topic so   ¬
> 
> Anyone know good balanced cables for HD800? What would you guys recommend? Max budget - 500


 
 save a lot of money and make your own. i made mine using BTG wire...


----------



## rydenfan

twoears said:


> I think the DHC cables are some of the more affordable ones for what you get in the states.
> 
> Moon audio also makes nice ones.
> 
> ...


 
 I recently picked up the Moon Premium Black Dragon and have not been super impressed. It certainly filled in the low end more than the stock cable but seems closed in on the top and has reduced the soundstage. I guess I need to look at some other options...


----------



## Canadian411

kugino said:


> save a lot of money and make your own. i made mine using BTG wire...




Is that btg 26awg clear ofc cable?


----------



## rgs9200m

magiccabbage said:


> back on topic so   ¬
> 
> Anyone know good balanced cables for HD800? What would you guys recommend? Max budget - 500


 
 Black Dragon w/Furutech connector.


----------



## kugino

canadian411 said:


> Is that btg 26awg clear ofc cable?


 
 yes, 26AWG silver plated copper. fairly inexpensive, light, easy to braid. sounds as good as other cables i've tried.


----------



## punit

longbowbbs said:


> My Toxic Cable Silver Widow's are great balanced cables for the HD800's.....


 

 +1. I have Balanced DHC "Peptide Hybrid" silver-copper 26awg litz also but prefer this.


----------



## magiccabbage

kugino said:


> save a lot of money and make your own. i made mine using BTG wire...


 
 that looks great but i dont know if i am competent enough to make one of those. 


rgs9200m said:


> Black Dragon w/Furutech connector.


 
 I will check this out thanks for posting.


longbowbbs said:


> My Toxic Cable Silver Widow's are great balanced cables for the HD800's.....


 
 im on it, there are pictures of it on the site i presume?


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > My Toxic Cable Silver Widow's are great balanced cables for the HD800's.....
> ...


 
 http://www.toxic-cables.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=60
  
 The Widows looks just like these. I have them terminated in a 4 pin balanced connection. Then I ordered a balanced to SE adapter so I can use them either way.


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> http://www.toxic-cables.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=60
> 
> The Widows looks just like these. I have them terminated in a 4 pin balanced connection. Then I ordered a balanced to SE adapter so I can use them either way.


 
 sweet


----------



## Sorrodje

I can't resist to show my new head-fi Station to the HD800 community .  Metrum Octave >> DNA Sonett 2 >> HD800 . The brand new amp came at home today .


----------



## Canadian411

sorrodje said:


> I can't resist to show my new head-fi Station to the HD800 community .  Metrum Octave >> DNA Sonett 2 >> HD800 . The brand new amp came at home today .




I am Jealous. Very nice amp and nice cable. Is that home made cardas?


----------



## Sorrodje

canadian411 said:


> I am Jealous. Very nice amp and nice cable. Is that home made cardas?


 
  
 No it isn't. I bought the cardas used for 100€ because I wanted a short cable to replace the Stock one . i'm listening music on my desk and i don't have any use of the 3 meter stock cable


----------



## maclenltd

Just listened to my new HD800s for the first time. I cannot imagine listening to anything else. Truly amazing sound. I don't find it to be too bright either.


----------



## TwoEars

Ahh, you finally got your sonett 2! Very nice.
  
 Should go nicely with metrum octave and cardas, sounds like a good synergy to me.
  
 Now you just need to reterminate that cardas cable with a 4-pin xlr and you'll be all set!
  
 Probably takes at least 50h for the tubes to hit their stride as well.
  
 But it looks nice! Very cool.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I had one of those amps at my office for a while to listen too. What is the difference to that one and the stratus .
Al


----------



## magiccabbage

sorrodje said:


> I can't resist to show my new head-fi Station to the HD800 community .  Metrum Octave >> DNA Sonett 2 >> HD800 . The brand new amp came at home today .


 
 Excellent picture sir


----------



## Amictus

sorrodje said:


> I can't resist to show my new head-fi Station to the HD800 community .  Metrum Octave >> DNA Sonett 2 >> HD800 . The brand new amp came at home today .


 
 Félicitations !


----------



## soundeffect

Im





sorrodje said:


> I can't resist to show my new head-fi Station to the HD800 community .  Metrum Octave >> DNA Sonett 2 >> HD800 . The brand new amp came at home today .


 

I'm also jealous. I want one and it's not going to happen for me until at least another two months, then I can order it. In your pic it looks bigger than what I imagined. Very nice, congrats


----------



## Mortalcoil

Sorrodje congrats on the DNA.


----------



## Sorrodje

twoears said:


> Ahh, you finally got your sonett 2! Very nice.
> 
> Should go nicely with metrum octave and cardas, sounds like a good synergy to me.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


magiccabbage said:


> Excellent picture sir


 
  
  


amictus said:


> Félicitations !


 
  
  


soundeffect said:


> Im
> 
> 
> I'm also jealous. I want one and it's not going to happen for me until at least another two months, then I can order it. In your pic it looks bigger than what I imagined. Very nice, congrats


 
  
  


mortalcoil said:


> Sorrodje congrats on the DNA.


 
  
 Cheers mates 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 @Twoears: I think i'll purchase another XLR terminated cable . Something like the pic but XLR terminated 
  

  
  
 @soundeffect: indeed, the Sonett is bigger than I thought too. Nothing too invasive on my desk but bigger than most amp I owned before.


----------



## soundeffect

I guess I need to start clearing out my desk. If you don't mind, let us know what you think of the sonnet 2. There aren't many people who speak of them.


----------



## Sorrodje

soundeffect said:


> I guess I need to start clearing out my desk. If you don't mind, let us know what you think of the sonnet 2. There aren't many people who speak of them.


 
  
 It's hard to give reliable thought after two hours of listening but I gave my short early impressions in the Sonnet 2 thread  . After days & weeks of common life I'll be more comfortable to give my opinion. the two main points i noticed is an improved soundstage and a smooth but clear & precise overall tone. No blur at all.  I was really afraid that the Sonett would be a more expensive & better Vali i really didn't like ( too harsh & dry to my ears) . Fortunately for me, it's not the case. What I looked for when I purchased the Sonett is crystal clear & transparent smoothness and not overly warm tone. I want something natural & refined , not colored or too "tubey". From what I heard last evening, the least I can say is that I'm not disappointed.
  
 Another point I appreciate a lot is that amp seems to be able to restitute all the dynamic range even at very low volume .
  
 Don't wait any dithyrambic review from me in the next days. Even if I'm wowed IRL i'm very reluctant to give positive or negative thoughts on Head-fi in the "Honeymoon" time  . For example, I've owned my HD800 for 10 month now and I've waited 6 month to write my complete feedback on my french forum. I'm convinced that real opinions in audio are based on long period of common life.


----------



## icebear

sorrodje said:


> .... What I looked for when I purchased the Sonett is crystal clear & transparent smoothness and not overly warm tone. I want something natural & refined , not colored or too "tubey". From what I heard last evening, the least I can say is that I'm not disappointed......


 
  A first impression of things going in the right direction is the basis for enjoyment to come down the road.
 Once the equipments has settled in and your excitement over the new box gives way to a more relaxed and critical state of listening then the judgement will be more accurate and capturing all the details that are there but you just don't recognize at the beginning. You are absolutely right to take your sweet time to get to know your new set up , enjoy !


----------



## soundeffect

Sounds fair to me. I'm still learning about the hd800 itself to see what changes I want, but as so far I'm liking it with lyr. Probably a month later is when I get a better idea as I'm a low hrs. Listener.


----------



## Rossliew

Sounds good with the Lyr but I personally find it's sound better optimized with an OTL amp.


----------



## Zoom25

sorrodje said:


> I'm convinced that real opinions in audio are based on long period of common life.


 
 100% agreed.


----------



## soundeffect

rossliew said:


> Sounds good with the Lyr but I personally find it's sound better optimized with an OTL amp.




That's part of of what I meant. I'm glade the hd800 sounds good with the lyr and now I can look forward to more improvement with another amp when the time comes. Nothing like a headphone that has room to grow.


----------



## RUMAY408

Revived an old thread that ran from 2002-2007 ranking HP's on a scale 1-10 Kayandjohn ran the stats and
  
 out of 337 member rankings, including rankings over the last 24 hours the HD800 is #1 out of the 37 most commonly reviewed HP's


----------



## 62ohm

rumay408 said:


> http://Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › On a scale from 1 to 10, 1 being worst and 10 being best...
> 
> 
> Revived an old thread that ran from 2002-2007 ranking HP's 1-10
> ...


 
  
 The link redirects me to this very thread and page again..


----------



## RUMAY408

I'm having trouble getting the link to work inside head-fi help please


----------



## 62ohm

rumay408 said:


> I'm having trouble getting the link to work inside head-fi help please


 
  
 What is the name of the thread? I would really like to see the rankings myself.


----------



## Maxvla

http://www.head-fi.org/t/21892/on-a-scale-from-1-to-10-1-being-worst-and-10-being-best

Here's the exact post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/21892/on-a-scale-from-1-to-10-1-being-worst-and-10-being-best/225#post_10568041


----------



## RUMAY408

maxvla said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/21892/on-a-scale-from-1-to-10-1-being-worst-and-10-being-best


 
 Thank You


----------



## MattTCG

rossliew said:


> Sounds good with the Lyr but I personally find it's sound better optimized with an OTL amp.


 
  
 I have waffled back and forth about buying the hd800 like a high school girl trying to decide which outfit to wear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I think my biggest reservation has been the "brightness" that seems to bother some. 
  
 I have the lyr and BHC, both with some nice tubes. I'm not able to spend additional money to make my chain any better, so I suppose that I just have to pull the trigger and give it a go.


----------



## Drsparis

matttcg said:


> I have waffled back and forth about buying the hd800 like a high school girl trying to decide which outfit to wear.    I think my biggest reservation has been the "brightness" that seems to bother some.
> 
> I have the lyr and BHC, both with some nice tubes. I'm not able to spend additional money to make my chain any better, so I suppose that I just have to pull the trigger and give it a go.




Do it and dont look back! I have a 25*** model and find them less aggressive to the ears than my hd580's.


----------



## magiccabbage

matttcg said:


> I have waffled back and forth about buying the hd800 like a high school girl trying to decide which outfit to wear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have no issue with brightness with WA2 - if you are using BH then maybe there will be no issue also.


----------



## OldSkool

matttcg said:


> I have waffled back and forth about buying the hd800 like a high school girl trying to decide which outfit to wear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Matt, I also can't tolerate "bright" cans, but the HD800 has been a pleasant surprise. No sibilance and no shrill treble to my ears. Bass is TIGHT and well-balanced. Detail and soundstage to die for.
  
 Pull the trigger, my friend.


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks guys!! Guess it's time to empty the old paypal account.


----------



## preproman

matttcg said:


> I have waffled back and forth about buying the hd800 like a high school girl trying to decide which outfit to wear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You know you can apply different mods that will tame the brightness for not much money.  
  
 I went with the SAA hardwire and cable mod.  It tamed the brightness and kept the good soundstage.  It did cost a bit much, but I'm sure you can find someone that could do it for much less.


----------



## magiccabbage

matttcg said:


> Thanks guys!! Guess it's time to empty the old paypal account.


 
 yes soon you will join us!


----------



## MickeyVee

Go for it.  The HD800 is great out of the LYR and BHC.  As far as the brighness goes.. I only found it bright with the Bryston amp.  With tubes, it's amazing!
  
 Quote:


matttcg said:


> I have waffled back and forth about buying the hd800 like a high school girl trying to decide which outfit to wear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Those headphones are just of the best there is. There is several top of the heap headphones but the hd800 has had more research then any of them. And in comparison to a few I have it shows. It's not that it does not have consessions it does but it does not have flaws. In a comparison of three top headphones it is the middle ground of the best of all. In fact they must have modded them from the hd800. 
The HE 6 has more body at the expense of hyper details and a bloated bass. 
The stax 009 leads in details but is note and presentation light .
The hd800 is the best of both as regarding the so called brightness this stems from a few places in the chain . Not the headphones. 
Bad recordings , amp or dac is the root cause . This is where the controversy in these headphones comes from.
Al


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> Those headphones are just of the best there is. There is several top of the heap headphones but the hd800 has had more research then any of them. And in comparison to a few I have it shows. It's not that it does not have consessions it does but it does not have flaws. In a comparison of three top headphones it is the middle ground of the best of all. In fact they must have modded them from the hd800.
> The HE 6 has more body at the expense of hyper details and a bloated bass.
> The stax 009 leads in details but is note and presentation light .
> The hd800 is the best of both as regarding the so called brightness this stems from a few places in the chain . Not the headphones.
> ...


 
 nicely put AL


----------



## preproman

alrainbow said:


> *Those headphones are just of the best there is*. There is several top of the heap headphones but the hd800 has had more research then any of them. And in comparison to a few I have it shows. It's not that it does not have consessions it does but it does not have flaws. In a comparison of three top headphones it is the middle ground of the best of all. In fact they must have modded them from the hd800.
> *The HE 6 has* more body at the *expense of hyper details and a bloated bass.*
> The stax 009 leads in details *but is note and presentation light .*
> *The hd800 is the best of both as regarding the so called brightness this stems from a few places in the chain . Not the headphones.*
> ...


 
  
 Yeah right..


----------



## nigeljames

alrainbow said:


> Those headphones are just of the best there is. There is several top of the heap headphones but the hd800 has had more research then any of them. And in comparison to a few I have it shows. It's not that it does not have consessions it does but it does not have flaws. In a comparison of three top headphones it is the middle ground of the best of all. In fact they must have modded them from the hd800.
> The HE 6 has more body at the expense of* hyper details and a bloated bass*.
> The stax 009 leads in details but is note and presentation light .
> The hd800 is the best of both as regarding the so called brightness this stems from a few places in the chain . Not the headphones.
> ...


 
  
 Since when does the HE-6 have 'bloated bass' I not heard any bloated bass even when underpowered and when properly driven has amongst the best bass I have ever heard. I also find the HD800's to have more perceived detail.
  
 However I also love the HD800's just as much.


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> Yeah right..


 
 I didn't think you would be a fan of someone saying that HE600 have bloated bass.


----------



## punit

Quote:


preproman said:


> Yeah right..


 
  
  


nigeljames said:


> Since when does the HE-6 have 'bloated bass' I not heard any bloated bass even when underpowered and when properly driven has amongst the best bass I have ever heard. I also find the HD800's to have more perceived detail.
> 
> However I also love the HD800's just as much.


 
  
 +1. Best Bass I have heard on a HP. Choice of one HP to keep between both will have to be decided by a coin toss for me. Its a tie between both of them for me.


----------



## MattTCG

I agree that the bass on the he6 is some of the best I've ever heard.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Bloated by definition means too much. Yes the bass and overall presentation of the HE6 is the speaker like headphone. But based on definition the HD800 has more of it. 
 I too love the HE6. But if you have to mKe a choice of definition who here feels the HE 6 has more than the HD800 ?
Al


----------



## preproman

alrainbow said:


> Bloated by definition means too much. Yes the bass and overall presentation of the HE6 is the speaker like headphone. But based on definition the HD800 has more of it.
> I too love the HE6. But if you have to mKe a choice of definition *who here feels the HE 6 has more than the HD800 ?*
> Al


 
  
 You ask that question in a HD800 thread? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Bloated bass tends to linger or exaggerate, so it would sound sloppy and without definition or not being controlled -  the opposite of tight.  ie..  Having too much decay when not suppose to.  Neither the HD800 nor the HE6 has this.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

As I get your point try this. If you connected the hd800 and HE6 and compared them in a A/B with same song . There would have to be one with more and one with less . So either one is thin or one is think. Pick witch you like it. 
Al


----------



## preproman

Just because one has more than there other - does not make the one that has less thin or the one that has more thick.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yes,  I've A/B them many, many of times.  I've owned them both for a few a few years now.


----------



## SteveM324

preproman said:


> Yeah right..



 


+1, whatever floats his boat.


----------



## Rossliew

Both the HE-6 and HD800 have some of the tightest and thumping bass I've heard out of so-called "bright" headphones. Hands down, they walk over everyone else, IMO. I used to own the HE-6 and I still have the HD800 but I won't discount getting the HE-6 again, only if I have ONE amp to rule them both..


----------



## nigeljames

alrainbow said:


> Bloated by definition means too much. Yes the bass and overall presentation of the HE6 is the speaker like headphone. But based on definition the HD800 has more of it.
> I too love the HE6. But if you have to mKe a choice of definition who here feels the HE 6 has more than the HD800 ?
> Al


 
  
 HE-6's have a fuller bass than the HD800's, the LCD's I have heard/owned are even fuller, but I would not call any of them as bloated.
 They all have tight and well controlled bass to me, although the LCD's can seem a bit congested in the bass due to their restricted sound stage.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Ok you guys do not like bloated . Then stringer or speaker. And for the record one that I stronger if with a bass he's very tune becomes bloated. But as most here disagree I am agree with you guys. I am not trying to make any points or observations that we all have not done for ourselves .
Al


----------



## pearljam50000

I read in a review that, the HD800's bass is "one notey", i have listened to them in the past and i dissagree.


----------



## Mambosenior

pearljam50000 said:


> I read in a review that, the HD800's bass is "one notey", i have listened to them in the past and i dissagree.




Disagree here as well. More nonsense has been spewed about the HD-800 than any other HP.

Both the HE-6 and HD-800 feature great bass if you power them correctly, and if the recording sampled has quality bass.


----------



## Maxvla

The least one-note out there, actually.


----------



## subtle

maxvla said:


> The least one-note out there, actually.


 
  
 This.
  
 The HD800 has the most articulated, defined and accurate bass I've heard out of a headphone.  The polar opposite of one note.


----------



## PinkLed

subtle said:


> This.
> 
> The HD800 has the most articulated, *defined *and accurate bass I've heard out of a headphone.  The polar opposite of one note.


 
 Yes, great word. Cant even stand my LCD2 after buying the HD800s. They sound so clouded after hearing the glory of the HD800s. Would love to try out the HE 6 one day when the wallet permits.


----------



## kugino

pinkled said:


> Yes, great word. Cant even stand my LCD2 after buying the HD800s. They sound so clouded after hearing the glory of the HD800s. Would love to try out the HE 6 one day when the wallet permits.


This is how I feel about the he-500 after listening to the hd800. Will the he-6 fare better? I'm probably going to sell my he-500 b/c it's not worth putting up with how heavy it is.

Maybe the he-6 is worth it?


----------



## pearljam50000

Link to the review i mentioned before:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-0

I quote:

"Bass Texture - Good texture and extension. Slightly "one note" sounding relative to the planar magnetic cans.

Bass Slam - Dynamics are good on these, but the slightly one-note sound and lack of bass extension has these falling a bit short relative to the planar magnetics"


----------



## Sorrodje

What does "one note"  mean? i'm french so I'm not familiar with this expression and I can't understand its signification


----------



## nigeljames

pearljam50000 said:


> Link to the review i mentioned before:
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-0
> 
> I quote:
> ...


 
  
 I don't really know how anyone can say the HD800's lack bass extension and as for 'one note' bass well I don't get that either.
  
 Seem to be a strength of the HD800's to me.
  
 Just goes to show you can't rely on a single review or opinion.


----------



## Eee Pee

sorrodje said:


> What does "one note"  mean? i'm french so I'm not familiar with this expression and I can't understand its signification


 
  
 Not good distinction/definition between, for instance, 50 hz, 100 hz, 150 hz and 200.  They sound the same, like "one note".


----------



## Sorrodje

eee pee said:


> Not good distinction/definition between, for instance, 50 hz, 100 hz, 150 hz and 200.  They sound the same, like "one note".


 
  
 Thanks.


----------



## radiojam

matttcg said:


> rossliew said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds good with the Lyr but I personally find it's sound better optimized with an OTL amp.
> ...




I waited far too long to try the HD800 because of all the talk about bright, harsh, fatiguing, analytical, etc. I threw all of that out the window within the first 10 seconds. In my opinion, they sound incredibly natural, transparent and are a perfect fit for me. And my previous favorite cans were the 650s so that may tell you something.


----------



## Canadian411

radiojam said:


> I waited far too long to try the HD800 because of all the talk about bright, harsh, fatiguing, analytical, etc. I threw all of that out the window within the first 10 seconds. In my opinion, they sound incredibly natural, transparent and are a perfect fit for me. And my previous favorite cans were the 650s so that may tell you something.




Well it depends when you purchased hd800.
I know anything below 19xxx has hash trebles. 

My 2nd one is 26xxx I think


----------



## ALRAINBOW

????!!


----------



## Canadian411

Just me tho.


----------



## pearljam50000

My budget is 500$ for dac\amp and it should last me a few years before i can upgrade, so i have to choose carefuly.
 Has anyone tried the Emotiva Stealth DC-1 and can report on the sound with HD800? i'm open to other options too!
 Sorry for asking again, it's just i didn't get alot of answers the last time i asked. thanks!


----------



## Zoom25

I was looking at headphone stands for the HD800 and the only thing that I liked was the Klutz headphone stand, which goes for $500 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The Room zebrano stands matched my LCD-3 perfectly. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a similar perfect match for HD800 by Room.


----------



## magiccabbage

zoom25 said:


> I was looking at headphone stands for the HD800 and the only thing that I liked was the Klutz headphone stand, which goes for $500
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I think they are horrible


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> My budget is 500$ for dac\amp and it should last me a few years before i can upgrade, so i have to choose carefuly.
> Has anyone tried the Emotiva Stealth DC-1 and can report on the sound with HD800? i'm open to other options too!
> Sorry for asking again, it's just i didn't get alot of answers the last time i asked. thanks!


 
 I've done my readings on the DC-1 and based on the reports out there, the built in headphone amp won't do it justice. I'd seriously consider the DM Source, if you can find it used. On the DC-1 thread, someone had the DC-1 and later switched to Source and found a big difference in headphone capabilities. I can also vouch for how well the HD800's sound off the Source. The HD800 on Source beat a bunch of HE-400, HE-500, HE-6, LCD-2, LCD-3, T1, setups i've auditioned and owned.
  
 …but yeah, the DC-1 probably won't cut it. Hopefully someone can you provide you a cheaper combo that also works nicely with the HD800.


----------



## Zoom25

magiccabbage said:


> I think they are horrible


 
 Room or Klutz?


----------



## magiccabbage

zoom25 said:


> Room or Klutz?


 
 klutz, room's are nice
  
  
 i love these ones ¬


----------



## Zoom25

This is what I had with my LCD-3:
  
  
  
 I was looking at something like this for the HD800:
  

  
 I just couldn't find something I liked with the HD800 from Room or Omega.


----------



## Maxvla

pearljam50000 said:


> My budget is 500$ for dac\amp and it should last me a few years before i can upgrade, so i have to choose carefuly.
> Has anyone tried the Emotiva Stealth DC-1 and can report on the sound with HD800? i'm open to other options too!
> Sorry for asking again, it's just i didn't get alot of answers the last time i asked. thanks!



There aren't a lot of good inexpensive combos that match with the HD800. That's why you didn't get many suggestions. M-Stage w/DAC or Modi/Vali seems to be the best.


----------



## PinkLed

I use this for my HD800s, cheapest solution there is, kinda tacky but gets the job done. 
  
http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Headphone-Holder/dp/B003T1CWU8


----------



## MattTCG

zoom25 said:


> This is what I had with my LCD-3:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hm...looks familiar.


----------



## Canadian411

zoom25 said:


> I was looking at something like this for the HD800:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I love this headphone stand, if it was like in $150 I will buy 6 or 8, unfortunately can't afford single one.


----------



## kugino

pinkled said:


> I use this for my HD800s, cheapest solution there is, kinda tacky but gets the job done.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Headphone-Holder/dp/B003T1CWU8


 
 i have a couple of these as well...but they hold my grados and denons...the hd800 lives in its box.


----------



## Zoom25

matttcg said:


> Hm...looks familiar.


 
  
 Yea looks a bit familiar…mines still better though


----------



## Zoom25

canadian411 said:


> I love this headphone stand, if it was like in $150 I will buy 6 or 8, unfortunately can't afford single one.


 
  
 http://www.auralic.com/gemini/#Welcome
  
 So, apparently Auralic made a DAC/headphone amplifier combo built inside that stand. This freaking headphone stand can do DSD.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm losing my ship over here!!!!


----------



## whirlwind

Is anybody listening to the HD800 thru a Mad Ear +HD


----------



## kugino

zoom25 said:


> http://www.auralic.com/gemini/#Welcome
> 
> So, apparently Auralic made a DAC/headphone amplifier combo built inside that stand. This freaking headphone stand can do DSD.
> 
> ...


 
 yeah, the specs look pretty amazing. 2W power output...and one of the gemini threads here said that it powered the HD800 very well. promising as an all in one (and i mean ALL in one, including stand) solution.


----------



## Zoom25

kugino said:


> yeah, the specs look pretty amazing. 2W power output...and one of the gemini threads here said that it powered the HD800 very well. promising as an all in one (and i mean ALL in one, including stand) solution.


 
  
 Yeah it looks really good. The offerings on the higher model look very, very good. I'd love to try one. I even have a Colorware design that would perfectly match with one of the finishes.


----------



## MacedonianHero

whirlwind said:


> Is anybody listening to the HD800 thru a Mad Ear +HD


 
 I had that combination and with the right 12AX7 power tube, it was quite good!


----------



## jchandler3

Hey pearljam50000, what about a refurb Schiit Lyr and Modi?


----------



## pearljam50000

Where can i get them refurbished?


----------



## Canadian411

zoom25 said:


> http://www.auralic.com/gemini/#Welcome
> 
> So, apparently Auralic made a DAC/headphone amplifier combo built inside that stand. This freaking headphone stand can do DSD.:eek: I'm losing my ship over here!!!!



Ya I saw this. Its beautiful!


----------



## jchandler3

pearljam50000 said:


> Where can i get them refurbished?




Schiit sells them through Amazon. Full warranty and everything.


----------



## TwoEars

zoom25 said:


> http://www.auralic.com/gemini/#Welcome
> 
> So, apparently Auralic made a DAC/headphone amplifier combo built inside that stand. This freaking headphone stand can do DSD.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Balanced output and 2W !!
  
 It even has a toslink input (which is more than can be said about the meridian prime).
  
 Friggin cooool.


----------



## kamalz

I watched the voice season episode 25.
use my hd800 . Josh kaufman left his heart on the floor in his last song. Imo he took adele song to the next level.
felt I were him .this hd800 really can give thrilling experience. Hearing emotion is one thing..experience emotion is another. Just sharing the experience that I got from my hd800


----------



## Zoom25

twoears said:


> Balanced output and 2W !!
> 
> It even has a toslink input (which is more than can be said about the meridian prime).
> 
> Friggin cooool.


 
 Yeah at this point, if I had to, I'd rather spend another $500 and get the DAC/AMP combo over just the headphone stand going for $500. I really wanna hear the 2000 version. The Conductor didn't impress me much either.


----------



## whirlwind

macedonianhero said:


> I had that combination and with the right 12AX7 power tube, it was quite good!


 

 Thanks.
  
 This is great news, as I have been thinking about this headphone, especially after falling in love with the HD650.


----------



## PinkLed

canadian411 said:


> Well it depends when you purchased hd800.
> I know anything below 19xxx has hash trebles.
> 
> My 2nd one is 26xxx I think


 
 Is this really true? Well, either way im 21XXX.


----------



## Priidik

Not true. Canadian411 are you trolling around?
  
 I have 20837 and my friend has 16k smth and his friend's 5k smth and neither are harsher than mine.
 The 5k model is actually smoother. 
 Also confirmed by a lot of measurements and other people impressions too.


----------



## Canadian411

pinkled said:


> Is this really true? Well, either way im 21XXX.




I have no technical proof but my 1st one back in 2011 had very thin sounding, no bass but just hash trebles. I purchased again in 2013 november with the serial number 26... and bass is different to my ears. 

I can be wrong but this new one I like.
Someone correct me if I am wrong. 
Don't want to give any false information. I am curious as well.


----------



## treebug

zoom25 said:


> I was looking at headphone stands for the HD800 and the only thing that I liked was the Klutz headphone stand, which goes for $500
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Woo Audio stands are terrific build quality, and heavy!


----------



## Rossliew

priidik said:


> Not true. Canadian411 are you trolling around?
> 
> I have 20837 and my friend has 16k smth and his friend's 5k smth and neither are harsher than mine.
> The 5k model is actually smoother.
> Also confirmed by a lot of measurements and other people impressions too.




Agreed. Mine are 10xxx and they don't have harsh treble unless your recording is such. Sounds smooth as butter to these ears


----------



## ALRAINBOW

People more rumers who comes up with these things. 
Does anybody here know that our headphones are somewhat unique 
Why you may ask as you say I am ass again. 
Here us why each if the drivers inside has serial number 
This serial number is assigned when the individual driver is tested. 
The idea is the headphones are so accurate that the drivers are paired 
This is so if we damage a driver they would send us a matching device 
Does anyone hear think there super hearing could desern 
One serial number to another. 
So if this is true how could there be a difference in serial numbers of the headphones 
Am I making any sense ???
Al


----------



## Zoom25

treebug said:


> Woo Audio stands are terrific build quality, and heavy!


 
 I liked the Chrome one:
  

  
  
 ...but the fact that it is $200 and looks like my banana and paper towel stands doesn't make it worth it to me. It's a nice finish for sure, but nothing aesthetically appealing given it's price.


----------



## treebug

I have the silver one. When you see it (and feel it) in the flesh you'll realize it's worth the money. Very solid and the height adjustment is handy for bigger headphones. Got mine free with my LCD-X!


----------



## TwoEars

alrainbow said:


> People more rumers who comes up with these things.
> Does anybody here know that our headphones are somewhat unique
> Why you may ask as you say I am ass again.
> Here us why each if the drivers inside has serial number
> ...


 
  
 Head-Fi's resident poet has spoken.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Hahahaha. Lmao. 
If I were to be a successful poet i need to spell 
Much better. Your a funny guy 
Al


----------



## Canadian411

priidik said:


> Not true. Canadian411 are you trolling around?
> 
> I have 20837 and my friend has 16k smth and his friend's 5k smth and neither are harsher than mine.
> The 5k model is actually smoother.
> Also confirmed by a lot of measurements and other people impressions too.




Ya as you can see, I am trolling around here pretending that I have HD800.

...like I said I am curious myself. I say again (pls read) I don't have a technical proof.

Also, did you test 24 or 26... series?


----------



## paradoxper

alrainbow said:


> People more rumers who comes up with these things.
> Does anybody here know that our headphones are somewhat unique
> Why you may ask as you say I am ass again.
> Here us why each if the drivers inside has serial number
> ...


 
 Why do you always sound so full of it. But I must say you always make sense. I also agree you're an ass.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Hahahaha look at me as a profit nobody likes 
Like Jesus,s cousin that never made it into the bible 
Lmao. 
Al


----------



## BournePerfect

I've owned 4 HD800s from 14xxx-25xxx. They all sounded identical-changing only as the rigs changed. Sennheiser has the least amount of variance and best qc of all manufacturers, bar none.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Wow we agree. I must be improving 
But I know I am not perfect as some 
Hahhahaa


----------



## Canadian411

bourneperfect said:


> I've owned 4 HD800s from 14xxx-25xxx. They all sounded identical-changing only as the rigs changed. Sennheiser has the least amount of variance and best qc of all manufacturers, bar none.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 This is actually good, you had 4 and I only had 2 ranging bwteen 19xxx and 26xxx. I am not saying anything below the serial number 26xxx are the worst senns, I want them to be the same (Not like another Headphone company that releases many countless version )
  
 Sennheiser has the best quality control for sure.
  
 Do you think it could be the aging issue then ? as you get older you tend to miss high frequencies ? Anyways, I did not liked the serial number 19xxx, it was just flat not musical at all with my same Burson HA160DS. or the lemon..


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> Wow we agree. I must be improving
> But I know I am not perfect as some
> Hahhahaa


 
 not quiet an ass but very modest person. haha


----------



## TwoEars

bourneperfect said:


> I've owned 4 HD800s from 14xxx-25xxx. They all sounded identical-changing only as the rigs changed. Sennheiser has the least amount of variance and best qc of all manufacturers, bar none.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 How the heck have you had 4 HD800's?
  
 Did you pick them up just to see if there was any difference?


----------



## BournePerfect

canadian411 said:


> This is actually good, you had 4 and I only had 2 ranging bwteen 19xxx and 26xxx. I am not saying anything below the serial number 26xxx are the worst senns, I want them to be the same (Not like another Headphone company that releases many countless version )
> 
> Sennheiser has the best quality control for sure.
> 
> Do you think it could be the aging issue then ? as you get older you tend to miss high frequencies ? Anyways, I did not liked the serial number 19xxx, it was just flat not musical at all with my same Burson HA160DS. or the lemon..


 
  
 Well I didn't age too much in the 2 years or so that I owned all 4 of those. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Mortalcoil

From my own personal experience I found an audible difference between two HD-800 units.  So discernible to my ears that one of the units was swapped for another.
  
 If any of you are not aware of this thread  http://www.head-fi.org/t/433059/sennheiser-hd800-certificate-for-frequency-response-arrived/480#post_10424772  please take a look.
  
 As I mentioned in my post (linked) I found a huge difference between serial numbers,  with the newer 28xxx sounding thinner than the earlier 26xxx.
  
 They were unlistenable to my ears.
  
 YMMV .... IMO...TBH lol and all that


----------



## Mortalcoil

I just posted this in the deals thread, but for anyone on the fence still considering the HD-800.
  
 Good until June 30  http://www.head-fi.org/t/692119/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post/5190#post_10577099
  
 Great for us Canucks especially locals


----------



## pearljam50000

So newer pairs suck? ):


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Do not read into these staments. Hd800 headphones have a far more stable sound then most likely any headphone sold or made. Buy them and enjoy them. Look for my post regarding the serial numbers on the drivers. 
Al


----------



## Rossliew

alrainbow said:


> Do not read into these staments. Hd800 headphones have a far more stable sound then most likely any headphone sold or made. Buy them and enjoy them. Look for my post regarding the serial numbers on the drivers.
> Al




Agreed. These are a great pair of headphones and have stood the test of time.


----------



## MattTCG

I'll find for myself soon enough...ordered.


----------



## OldSkool

matttcg said:


> I'll find for myself soon enough...ordered.


----------



## whirlwind

I am seriously thinking about trying these cans.
  
 I was going to get the Hifiman560....but I am now thinking about trying those much later down the road.....after all the dust settles.
  
 What is a good price on a used HD800?


----------



## Canadian411

whirlwind said:


> I am seriously thinking about trying these cans.
> 
> I was going to get the Hifiman560....but I am now thinking about trying those much later down the road.....after all the dust settles.
> 
> What is a good price on a used HD800?




I read somewhere that he500 was a better hp than 560?

I am waiting for the he6 successor for hd800 compliment,


----------



## Canadian411

mortalcoil said:


> From my own personal experience I found an audible difference between two HD-800 units.  So discernible to my ears that one of the units was swapped for another.
> 
> If any of you are not aware of this thread  http://www.head-fi.org/t/433059/sennheiser-hd800-certificate-for-frequency-response-arrived/480#post_10424772  please take a look.
> 
> ...




Do you think it has to do with the burn in period?

It has been proven for akg headphones by tyll @ innerfidelity.

Not sure.

If anyone live in Toronto with the serial number starting 28... I will like to a/b.


----------



## whirlwind

canadian411 said:


> I read somewhere that he500 was a better hp than 560?
> 
> I am waiting for the he6 successor for hd800 compliment,


 

 I do not know how one can even compare the HE500 & 560 in all honesty......the headphone is still being revised, and not that many people have heard them....even then opinions seem to vary......I do think eventually they will be good.....just not any time soon.


----------



## Sorrodje

Who did *direct* A/B comparison between S/N 5XXX, 1XXXX,2XXXX HD800 ?
  
 I compared once a demo HD800 vs Mine in a shop and the demo one sounded slightly brighter. Real but very subtle difference. IMO Something quite normal between same models. Mine is #17XXX but I don't known what's the S/N of the demo HD800 I tried.


----------



## Priidik

sorrodje said:


> Who did *direct* A/B comparison between S/N 5XXX, 1XXXX,2XXXX HD800 ?
> 
> I compared once a demo HD800 vs Mine in a shop and the demo one sounded slightly brighter. Real but very subtle difference. IMO Something quite normal between same models. Mine is #17XXX but I don't known what's the S/N of the demo HD800 I tried.


 
 I have A/B-d mine (20837) vs my friends 16XXX something. Sine gen and music listening and differences are very hard to pick up and i couldn't decide which was better. 
  
 However i listened (not a/b) to 5XXX model as well, and thought that it sounded a bit smoother, slightly softer treble. Also the earlier models had different pads, maybe it affects sound too.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Now that makes sense. Anything with pads i would think has a viable chance at changing the sound


----------



## Sorrodje

IMO the only valid statement about different HD800 shoud be based on direct comparison. Memory is not reliable at all and our tastes change when our experience increases so our judgment can vary way more than HD800 sound sig .


----------



## MattTCG

I just changed pads on my hd650....night and day difference. Even my wife could tell. Old pads have more bass and smaller sound stage.


----------



## TwoEars

sorrodje said:


> IMO the only valid statement about different HD800 shoud be based on direct comparison. Memory is not reliable at all and our tastes change when our experience increases so our judgment can vary way more than HD800 sound sig .


 
  
 I'm with you there.
  
 We tend to hear what we want to hear and our hearing is bound to vary from day-to-day much more than the headphones are...
  
 You own both headphones, both headphones are burned in, same rig, samt occasion, same song, everything the same..... you hear a difference then... we'll talk. Otherwise I will attribute it to something else.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yea now I am in complete agreement 
I am not nuts then 
Al


----------



## Sorrodje

twoears said:


> I'm with you there.


 
  
  
 Sonett users brotherhood


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Korg has an dac amp combo it plays dsd as well. It is supposedly good with many headphones. Anyone here using it with the hd800. 
???
Al


----------



## TwoEars

sorrodje said:


> Sonett users brotherhood


 
  
 How do you like it anyway? Had time to form any opinions yet?


----------



## Sorrodje

twoears said:


> How do you like it anyway? Had time to form any opinions yet?


 
  
 I had About 10 hours of Listening. Shortly : Smoooooooooooth , better (wider+deeper) soundstage, more layering & more real imaging especially of the background of the soundstage. Great bottom end but still smooth/textured. Voices seems to gain some body. Overally the Sound seems to be thicker in a very good way.  Lot of Control too . The Sonett offers full dynamics at every volume range and I can enjoy my HD800 even at very low volume.  I tried briefly the IEC impedance setting and i Prefer the lowest one. Perfectly black background. I only use the lowest gain setting.
  
 It seems I can listen to a larger range of music and that my HD800 became more forgiving. 
  
 New toy effect and personal bias with an expensive piece of gear maybe but so far, I'm Happy.
  
 Consequently my previous amp can go to its next owner .


----------



## TwoEars

Yeah, it's a great little amp. Not tubey but takes away most of the harshness and adds lots of soundstage.
  
 Glad you like it so far!


----------



## Zoom25

So a viable test would be to have a variety of HD800s over the serial range and have them all burned in (let's say 100 hours for peace of mind). Put brand new pads on all of them. Listen through same cable and same rig and then decide.


----------



## Eee Pee

sorrodje said:


> Sonett users brotherhood


 
  
 I'm in.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

And have at least ten people testing so we can have ten 
Different answers. 
I read a post if an actual test that was done 
On a small stage with a curtain. 
The test had three controls labeled to what ever 
They did at the time. They then have reviewes 
Change the controls and note the changes. 
The outcome was nothing short of proving 
Most of the changes we here are in iur own minds only. 
The knobs did nothing and if I remember it correctly it was a real band behind the curtain 
The pint is be happy and post what you feel as this is important to read 
But all if us need to make our choices for our selves 
Not me or anybody telling you. If you are happy 
With a simple setup then enjoy it. If you wish to buy a 10 k setup read up plenty but audition it before you commit 
Al


----------



## TwoEars

eee pee said:


> I'm in.


 
  
 Nice! How long have you had yours?


----------



## Eee Pee

I took delivery March 17, 2011


----------



## TwoEars

eee pee said:


> I took delivery March 17, 2011


 
  
 Nice!
  
 Wait... you remember the exact date from 3 years ago? You're not by any chance Julian Gregory Day are you?


----------



## BournePerfect

twoears said:


> How the heck have you had 4 HD800's?
> 
> Did you pick them up just to see if there was any difference?


 
  
 Nah. Sold once because my mid-tier rig didn't impress me with them-and at the time I wasn't aware of how well they could scale. Sold another for financial reasons at the time. Sold another to a friend who heard my rig and just HAD to have them...on the spot lol. So I helped him out. 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Eee Pee

twoears said:


> you remember the exact date from 3 years ago?


 
  
 Yeah right.  Head-Fi search.  
  
 My 800s are in the 6900s.  That much I can remember.  
  
 Just kidding, I had to look.


----------



## longbowbbs

eee pee said:


> twoears said:
> 
> 
> > you remember the exact date from 3 years ago?
> ...


 
 No No....Some days are just that important!


----------



## Mortalcoil

canadian411 said:


> Do you think it has to do with the burn in period?
> 
> It has been proven for akg headphones by tyll @ innerfidelity.
> 
> ...


 

 In all honesty I purchased the 26xxx serialized HD-800,  listened to them for 2 days and really liked what I heard right out of the box.  Noticed however that one of the ear pads had a large crease in it that drove me nuts (O.C.D lol).
  
 I packed them up and brought them back to the retailer and exchanged for the 28xxx which was a perfect sample cosmetically....the sound however was intolerable.  Brighter than my GS-1000 (that I hold onto for sentimentality reasons).  They went back the day after and I ended up with my originally purchased 26xxx (had Sennheiser Canada send me new pads)
  
 The rest is history like they say.
  
 The difference was like night and day to my ears.  Due to the fact that these comparisons between two HD-800 were done days apart I feel that my acoustic memory held truth and was accurate enough to hear the difference.
  
 The fact that both frequency charts arrived via email one week later proved what I was hearing.
  
 The idea that each sample HD-800 may sound different to one another holds water to me.
  
 I don't think that batch number has any relevance here,  it is on a per HD-800 basis. Some owners of earlier versions were gifted with a pair that were warm, or almost neutral sounding, while others complained of brightness, lack luster bass ....etc.
  
 Some frequency charts were all over the map while others retained hints of neutrality.
  
 For those that question this I suggest that the perfect scenario would be to compare not only just two HD-800's (chances are they may sound almost identical) but to find two pairs that do in fact sound like different beasts.
  
 Definitely a hard experiment to replicate unless by just luck of the draw.
  
 Yes it would appear that the K812 may be suffering from the same issue.
  
 Like I said YMMV


----------



## Eee Pee

mortalcoil said:


> Like I said YMMV


 
 Your memory may vary?


----------



## longbowbbs

eee pee said:


> mortalcoil said:
> 
> 
> > Like I said YMMV
> ...


----------



## Sorrodje

eee pee said:


> Your memory may vary?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Here is a question for those who think any headphone let's hear it all. 
Anyone here have both headphones and speakers. 
Is there music you know well with headphones 
And then play it on speakers for the first time and notice the ambience of the studio in a completely different way ? 
A song to play is track 5 or 6 on social club. 
With headphones I hear the instings close and far 
But with speakers it way different 
The venue where it was recorded is a bigger part if the musical reproduction 
Al


----------



## Zoom25

alrainbow said:


> Here is a question for those who think any headphone let's hear it all.
> Anyone here have both headphones and speakers.
> Is there music you know well with headphones
> And then play it on speakers for the first time and notice the ambience of the studio in a completely different way ?
> ...


 
 True. The venue and ambience comes out much better on speakers. If I have the option to both speakers and headphones, I never touch headphones. Only for late night when going to bed. 
  
 You can also get a sense of how artists changed their production techniques from album to album.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yes this too is true. But yet we all hear small nuances we do not hear on speakers. 
The over all point is there is both to hear the complete 
Virtue of any good recording. 
Al


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> Here is a question for those who think any headphone let's hear it all.
> Anyone here have both headphones and speakers.
> Is there music you know well with headphones
> And then play it on speakers for the first time and notice the ambience of the studio in a completely different way ?
> ...


 
 True When I listen to speakers sometimes I hear things that I don't notice as much on headphones.
 That's not to say that it isn't there on the headphone. If you check both you will hear those things on both systems.
 I personally hear more on headphones than I do on speakers.
 Only sometimes do speakers let me hear something that I didn't notice on the headphone. 
  
 But it depends heavily on the speaker system. I have only heard 2 speakers systems for longer periods of time
  
 - *the Keff R500 through a Rotel amp with V800 DAC - the other system was *
* - Monitor Audio GS20 with a Vincent hybrid power amp (cant remember the pre-amp) and the pioneer PD 75*
  
 I still prefer my WA2/HD800 over those rigs (not for every album but most) although the Monitor Audio rig came close.
 I think you have to scale much higher to beat that headphone rig or lets say to beat a rig like - GSXMK2/Audio GDM7/HD800
 you would have to go higher. Maybe 10,000 euro (14,000 dollars) and up. 
  
 I have heard people say that cheaper speaker rigs than the GSX one will sound much better but in my experience that is not true. 
 What do you guys think? What speaker rigs do you think start to edge out in front of a TOTL HD800 rig?


----------



## Zoom25

Now I haven't heard HD800 on GS-X but active monitors from ATC, PMC and the 3 way's from Genelec are quite fun to listen to (1037, 8260). SM9 is fun as well. I only have experience with the low end monitors and the very high end ones. Nothing in the middle though.
  
 If you're into hifi and have cash, maybe try out the mini Blade coming out.


----------



## magiccabbage

zoom25 said:


> Now I haven't heard HD800 on GS-X but active monitors from ATC, PMC and the 3 way's from Genelec are quite fun to listen to (1037, 8260). SM9 is fun as well. I only have experience with the low end monitors and the very high end ones. Nothing in the middle though.
> 
> If you're into hifi and have cash, maybe try out the mini Blade coming out.


 
 Keff mini blade?


----------



## Zoom25

magiccabbage said:


> Keff mini blade?


 
 Yup


----------



## Zoom25

http://www.whathifi.com/news/kef-unveils-new-baby-blades-reference-series-and-upgraded-muon-speakers-at-high-end-show


----------



## magiccabbage

zoom25 said:


> Yup


 
 wow I had no idea they were released


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> zoom25 said:
> 
> 
> > Now I haven't heard HD800 on GS-X but active monitors from ATC, PMC and the 3 way's from Genelec are quite fun to listen to (1037, 8260). SM9 is fun as well. I only have experience with the low end monitors and the very high end ones. Nothing in the middle though.
> ...


 
 Relatively....Compared to the Original Blades....
  
 http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/flagship_hi-fi_series/blade/fact_sheet/blade_group/BLADE_2/index.html


----------



## Zoom25

lol on a side note while looking for the baby blade, I came across a Kef video and I came across a comment. It is one of the truest things I've observed while watching (old) people listen to stuff at dealers or showroom:


> I'm an Audiophile. My signature look? Arms crossed with a frown, of course.


 
  
 It's so dead on accurate. It's usually this or some variation with eyes closed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 …anyways back to HD800


----------



## pearljam50000

Can you hear any difference between PCM and DSD on HD800?


----------



## palmfish

pearljam50000 said:


> Can you hear any difference between PCM and DSD on HD800?


 

 Absolutely!
  
 My DSD version of Getz/Gilberto sounds way different from my PCM version of Steely Dan Gaucho. There's no comparison!


----------



## drdiem

pearljam50000 said:


> Can you hear any difference between PCM and DSD on HD800?


 
 I'd think this would depend very heavily on how you generate two different format versions of exactly the same track? That said, if any pair of headphones could reveal the difference between file conversions then it's the HD800. So far I've found mine to be _insanely_ revealing


----------



## kugino

pearljam50000 said:


> Can you hear any difference between PCM and DSD on HD800?


 
 i would think this would depend on the DAC and also on the mastering of the tracks. are we talking same source that is converted into both high-res PCM and DSD? that's also a tough thing to do because one or the other format will be at a disadvantage when converting to the other format...going from PCM to DSD and vice-versa is a losing proposition both ways. ideally, you'd like to listen to whatever format the original was mastered in...


----------



## Sorrodje

palmfish said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> My DSD version of Getz/Gilberto sounds way different from my PCM version of Steely Dan Gaucho. There's no comparison!


 
  
 Obviously it's a placebo effect for sure. Everybody knows that nobody could hear the diffference between Stan Getz & Steely dan in any serious ABX test.


----------



## whirlwind

These cans good for rock & blues
  
 These genres take up most of my listening habits.....now days Bonamassa about 25%.....


----------



## MattTCG

I just recently got into Bonamassa. Good stuff.


----------



## OldSkool

JoBo is amazing, for sure.
  
 Lately I have been listening to a lot of Enrico Crivellaro. Check out his album Mojo Zone.


----------



## whirlwind

matttcg said:


> I just recently got into Bonamassa. Good stuff.


 





 Yeah, really good stuff.
  


oldskool said:


> JoBo is amazing, for sure.
> 
> Lately I have been listening to a lot of Enrico Crivellaro. Check out his album Mojo Zone.


 
 OK....thanks.
  
 Are these cans and Joe B. a good match ?


----------



## OldSkool

whirlwind said:


> Are these cans and Joe B. a good match ?


 
 Absolutely. I listen to Blues about 75% of the time, all thru the HD800.
  
 The other 25% is Electronic and Rock and then it's LCD2 time. My forgotten HE500's will soon be for sale.
  
 YMMV.


----------



## whirlwind

matttcg said:


> I just recently got into Bonamassa. Good stuff.


 
  
  


oldskool said:


> Absolutely. I listen to Blues about 75% of the time, all thru the HD800.
> 
> The other 25% is Electronic and Rock and then it's LCD2 time. My forgotten HE500's will soon be for sale.
> 
> YMMV.


 
  
 Great news.....thanks much, man.


----------



## pearljam50000

How much more detailed is the the Stax 009 in comparison with HD800 and is it worth sacrificing the HD800's sound stage for it?


----------



## icebear

I have just heard both cans in a brief comparison at the 2014 NY meet.
 The SR009 powered by BHSE, the HD800 by a GSX-MkII. I'd describe the main difference in presentation as more light, effortless, airy for the SR009. It is different but not necessarily more detailed. Maybe in a long term comparison you might be able to pick apart some details that the Stax can reveal and that the HD800 might be missing but this is trying to split blonde hairs.
 As far as the sound stage goes, the HD800 is head and shoulders above the Stax, no contest here. And as I can't stand the "inside your head" effect of headphones in general, the HD800 is my only choice.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Ditto. I own them both. The hd800 is 90 or more of what the stax is. I read this too and I still just had to buy them hahaha 
It's really not worth it. Regarding note thickness the hd800 is thicker like the HE6 is thicker than the hd800. 
It becomes about hyper details. The more details the faster the decay and thus a thinner note presentation. Now what is real in comparison none of them are . If you want to know just how unreal any of our devices are . Go to a piano store and play one. The overtones of real in no way are matched in any system. Our brains no what it is because it's close but the more real it is the easier it seems to be heard. This is why dsd sounds so much like analog. 
Al


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> Ditto. I own them both. The hd800 is 90 or more of what the stax is. I read this too and I still just had to buy them hahaha
> It's really not worth it. Regarding note thickness the hd800 is thicker like the HE6 is thicker than the hd800.
> It becomes about hyper details. The more details the faster the decay and thus a thinner note presentation. Now what is real in comparison none of them are . If you want to know just how unreal any of our devices are . Go to a piano store and play one. The overtones of real in no way are matched in any system. Our brains no what it is because it's close but the more real it is the easier it seems to be heard. This is why dsd sounds so much like analog.
> Al





Are you saying HD800 is about 90%+ of stax009? Then I can just skip stax 

Save money for a rainy day


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Oh yea for sure. If you heard the Difranco you would most likely not like it. An example is in speakers a electrostic compared to ribbon . The details are higher but at the expense of proper presentation. Meaning the notes are thin in an electro cam parred to a ribbon or cone. Now if you compare them to real none are real but the cone or ribbon hS more body and is closer to the real one .
Al


----------



## BobG55

Got the HD800 today, bought from another Head-fi member who purchased them new in February of this year so these are new. First impressions : superb synergy between the HD800 & Trafomatic Experience Head One HP amp (tubes).  No sibilance at all which as you all know is the biggest complaint against the HD800.  The sound is clear, the instruments are well separated, the voices, main & background are very distinct & clear, the bass is present & not overwhelming.  I'm listening to the "Ram" album by Paul McCartney which is full of harmony & many instruments & sounds on most of the tracks.  The song "Uncle Albert" for example has orchestration, horns, triangle, drums, guitars & piano & they come out pretty much clearly considering this is a 1971 recording (although my copy is a gold remastered disk).  
  
 The first HD800 I bought approximately 4 yrs ago had sibilance galore & were not enjoyable.  Now I don't profess to know if Sennheiser has adjusted their later models as some Head-fiers mention on another thread or if the sibilance was due to second rate HP amps but I can tell you that as of this initial listening session, this HD800 is performing quite well & is most enjoyable.  One other thing I've done in the past which I won't do again was to get rid of my other HPs at the time thinking the HD800 was the end it all.  The HD600, 650 & Shure SRH1540 will remain as part of my HP collection.  They all have their own signature that I enjoy and they're all quality HPs.  I was curious to see if the HD800 would sound different with a better HP amp & they sure do.  This second pair is not going anywhere.  By the way the SN is a 28xxx if this info. matters for any Head-fier reading this.  
  
 Most importantly, my wife is not yet aware that I purchased these HPs.  Having four pairs of HPs all costing $400+ most of you know & probably identify with the fact that my wife would not understand why I have four pairs & mostly why I spent so much money on headphones.  But I know I can go on a Headphone Obsession site & be understood by many.  
 Thanks all of you for your much needed support.


----------



## TwoEars

Oh yes, the HD800 and the trafomatic head one is a very nice combo. Nice synergy there.
  
 Welcome to the club


----------



## kugino

Wait, you hid a $1000 headphone purchase from your wife? Shocking.


----------



## BobG55

twoears said:


> Oh yes, the HD800 and the trafomatic head one is a very nice combo. Nice synergy there.
> 
> Welcome to the club


 
  
  
 As Elvis used to say : "*Thank ye. Thank ye very much" !  *


----------



## BobG55

kugino said:


> Wait, you hid a $1000 headphone purchase from your wife? Shocking.


 
  
  
 Shhhhh… don't type so hard, she might hear you !


----------



## Mahdi8

Well what she doesn't know wouldn't hurt her right? I've just recently got a HD800 by shifting money from my photography gear  I reckon getting the HD800 has a blessing in disguise. It present details and sound stage so effortlessly I'm only using half of the volume I used to have on my older headphones. I was worried about using open headphone in the office but because I only use it at low volume now it's not a problem  also would be better for my ear in the long run. So my angle is $1000 spend now better spend that thousands more on ear doctor when I'm older 
 Quote:


bobg55 said:


> Shhhhh… don't type so hard, she might hear you !


----------



## PinkLed

Im currently looking at aftermarket cables for the HD800. The stock cable was nice for a year but I think its time to move on. What would you say is the best value aftermarket for the HD800s. Norne seems like the cheapest, are they good? Is spending 500$ on a cable really worth it or can I get a great value out of say a 200$ cable? Thanks


----------



## SoupRKnowva

pinkled said:


> Im currently looking at aftermarket cables for the HD800. The stock cable was nice for a year but I think its time to move on. What would you say is the best value aftermarket for the HD800s. Norne seems like the cheapest, are they good? Is spending 500$ on a cable really worth it or can I get a great value out of say a 200$ cable? Thanks




Another cheaper option is Forza Audio Works, their cables look really nice, I've never seen one in person though. 

The other option I keep hearing good things about that not as many people seem to talk about anymore, is Double Helix Cables


----------



## Mahdi8

Anybody here uses toxic cables stuff? I'm thinking to get the black widow


----------



## Maxvla

I use cables (SE and balanced) from Ted Allen - Headphone Lounge - aka FBI Cables. He's on the cheaper side (starts at $150 for HD800) and does great work and he's fast! I submitted one of my orders on a Saturday, he had the cable made by the end of the day and was sent out the following Monday.

Pics here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-appreciation-thread/10110#post_10490556


----------



## rgs9200m

Hey there, RAM is one of my all time favorite albums and I also bought/sold/rebought newer HD800s and now really like them. I've got the DCC Gold version also. 
 (And furthermore, the headphone-habit is one of best habits you can have; no substance abuse and it can last a lifetime. Anyone around you should be proud you have such a divine healthy appreciation of the art of music reproduction.)


----------



## PiNa.cz

> Originally Posted by *Old Groucho* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Most importantly, my wife is not yet aware that I purchased these HPs.  Having four pairs of HPs all costing $400+ most of you know & probably identify with the fact that my wife would not understand why I have four pairs & mostly why I spent so much money on headphones.  But I know I can go on a Headphone Obsession site & be understood by many.
> Thanks all of you for your much needed support.


 
  
   


  
 Nice to see I am not the only one hiding HPs purchase from my wife 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 That's also the reason why I have my "high-end" rig in my office and why I work beyond normal working hours so often.
  


 Having a boss (this is his desk) who has a deep understanding of my HP hobby is priceless for me


----------



## punit

pina.cz said:


> Nice to see I am not the only one hiding HPs purchase from my wife
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
How does the HD 800 pair with Master 9 ? Do you prefer the Master 9 over a tube amp for the HD 800 ?


----------



## PiNa.cz

punit said:


> How does the HD 800 pair with Master 9 ? Do you prefer the Master 9 over a tube amp for the HD 800 ?


 
  
 It is Reference 10.32 with 4x PCM1704UK dac chips and it pairs very well with the HD800: full, balanced and very detailed analogue like sound. That tube amps are DIY design, they are not bad at all but I still prefer Reference 10.32 sound. I am kinda audio-gd guy


----------



## NZtechfreak

When I had my Reference 10.32 I really enjoyed the HD800 from it.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Ted Allen cables are very good ,and his prices are affordable. . Cables make a subtle change and to me not worth spending big bucks on. 
Al


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> Ted Allen cables are very good ,and his prices are affordable. . Cables make a subtle change and to me not worth spending big bucks on.
> Al



Yape me too. I went through several cables and very little or no difference.

Basically you pay for the look.

I like plussound's Dionysian,Apollonian or the LR series.

Poetic series look like qcables.


----------



## BobJS

kugino said:


> Wait, you hid a $1000 headphone purchase from your wife? Shocking.


 
  
 That's my S.O.P. , though, for some reason I volunteered the $1100 I paid for HD800.
  
 Then, last week, I received my new TH900s.  I was sure I covered all my tracks.  Two evenings later, she brings the receipt to me and asks me if I wanted to keep it (the receipt!)!


----------



## icebear

There you go ... you can't hide anything from your wife, so why even try
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 Get her approval if it's not too stupid (the purchase) and you'll be better off - both of you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Frank I

For anyone curious if the Chord Hugo drives the hd800 . It does and amazingly to reference quality sound. Seems like the Hugo and ak240 is becoming a go to rig for me lately on my desk. Not missing the other amps on hand.


----------



## longbowbbs

mahdi8 said:


> Anybody here uses toxic cables stuff? I'm thinking to get the black widow


 
 I have 4 of them and I am very pleased. I have the Silver Widows and Silver Poisons myself. Lot's of fans for the Black Widows too.


----------



## TwoEars

frank i said:


> For anyone curious if the Chord Hugo drives the hd800 . It does and amazingly to reference quality sound. Seems like the Hugo and ak240 is becoming a go to rig for me lately on my desk. Not missing the other amps on hand.


 
  
 I've heard someone say that the hugo currently is the best sounding dac in their lineup..... saying quite a lot considering their other offerings.


----------



## BobG55

pina.cz said:


> > Originally Posted by *Old Groucho* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> >
> > Most importantly, my wife is not yet aware that I purchased these HPs.  Having four pairs of HPs all costing $400+ most of you know & probably identify with the fact that my wife would not understand why I have four pairs & mostly why I spent so much money on headphones.  But I know I can go on a Headphone Obsession site & be understood by many.
> > Thanks all of you for your much needed support.
> ...


 
 Nice set-up PiNa.cz & a boss who understands.  It doesn't get much better than that.


----------



## Frank I

twoears said:


> I've heard someone say that the hugo currently is the best sounding dac in their lineup..... saying quite a lot considering their other offerings.


 
 I think it is one of the very best dac I have heard since Istarted  listening to separate dacs again. This is one of the best I have used in my system and is so small it musicality is totally insane.  I love i twith the hd800 using the ak240 as a source and the moon Blue Dragon is =cable is handling the  transfer. Drew working on the new


----------



## 7ryder

frank i said:


> I think it is one of the very best dac I have heard since Istarted  listening to separate dacs again. This is one of the best I have used in my system and is so small it musicality is totally insane.  I love i twith the hd800 using the ak240 as a source and the moon Blue Dragon is =cable is handling the  transfer. Drew working on the new


 
 why do you use the ak240 as a source if you aren't using its DAC or amp?  Seems like there are more cost effective ways to get the files into the Hugo...


----------



## Frank I

I use the ak240 for traveling outside and when I am out and it sounds excellent on it own, so it is being used as it was designed. When home I like using it with the Hugo because it is better sounding using an optical  than using the usb imac as the source. The Hugo internal dac is much better also..


----------



## ALRAINBOW

A few questions . Does the Hugo do dsd native or dop ? 
Does the Hugo do dsd any way over inputs like coax or just usb ?
Also same question for optical input ?
Al


----------



## Frank I

Hugo does dop, It has rca,coaxial and usb plus optical as well. Al it got you covered on all angles.


----------



## 7ryder

frank i said:


> I use the ak240 for traveling outside and when I am out and it sounds excellent on it own, so it is being used as it was designed. When home I like using it with the Hugo because it is better sounding using an optical  than using the usb imac as the source. The Hugo internal dac is much better also..


 
 thanks for the explanation. Does this mean that the Hugo is really too big for portable use?


----------



## Frank I

7ryder said:


> thanks for the explanation. Does this mean that the Hugo is really too big for portable use?


 
 no not at all. But when i go to the gym I only want the ak240 because I can put it in my pocket


----------



## Canadian411

frank i said:


> no not at all. But when i go to the gym I only want the ak240 because I can put it in my pocket




Oh my. Don't tell me you are wearing hd800 at the gym.

I just bring my ipod nano and iem. Simple and light.


----------



## Frank I

canadian411 said:


> Oh my. Don't tell me you are wearing hd800 at the gym.
> 
> I just bring my ipod nano and iem. Simple and light.


 
 no- roxannes  or ue18


----------



## TwoEars

frank i said:


> no- roxannes  or ue18


 
  




  
 you're crazy. In a good way.


----------



## Frank I

twoears said:


> you're crazy. In a good way.


----------



## Canadian411

Wow ue18. 

I broke my 2nd set of ue900 and decided not to buy anything over $100 iem.

But that is a very good iem!!


----------



## Zoom25

canadian411 said:


> Wow ue18.
> 
> I broke my 2nd set of ue900 and *decided not to buy anything over $100 iem.*
> 
> But that is a very good iem!!


 
 Same here. I broke my IEMs so many times that I gave up on IEMs. Didn't even bother with SE215 to get a replacement.


----------



## TwoEars

zoom25 said:


> Same here. I broke my IEMs so many times that I gave up on IEMs. Didn't even bother with SE215 to get a replacement.


 
  
 Yupp, about $100-150 bucks is my limit. I've got a few different ones for different purposes.
  
 One pair of CX-300 for the gym, one pair of shure 115 with noise isolating tips for the plane and then hifiman re-400 for everything else.
  
 Only bought the re-400 because I somehow managed to break my "philips tread" in-ears. Which was a real shame since they were the best sounding in-ears I've ever had for my tastes and casual listening, I liked them even better than the re-400. They were supposed to be indestructible but you know... in-ears... break.... it happens.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ vsonic gr07 be at $130 shipped is a steal.


----------



## TwoEars

^^ I've also heard good things about the klipsch X10's. Might try those or similar if I ever break my RE-400's.
  
 I like the HD800, HD600, HD650 sound signature and I can't stand IEM's with too much bass. Netural sound signature and tight bass is how I like it. The RE-400 does that but unfortunately it's a little bit on the "dry" side for me, it doesn't feel very fun. Maybe I'll come around, we'll see.


----------



## Zoom25

I have yet to experience an IEM with a strong and sturdy cable. All stock cables I've tried on IEMs have been so flimsy. Shure headphones and IEMs have always fudged me over this. I just lost interest in them having to keep sending stuff back for repair or replacement. It's a shame since I loved having a pair for travelling.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Please do not take offense but what are you doing with them. Hahaha. The most commen damage is leaving them in your pockets. As some damage is due to the fact they are fragile most is us. I have a bud who makes the cables at headphone lounge. He schooled me what people do to hi and his cables. I take mine out and shove them in a pouch in my back pack . And they never get damaged but the wires are always knotted. I did shove them in my pocket once and I did bend the pins a bit. But I fixed them . 
Al


----------



## Priidik

zoom25 said:


> I have yet to experience an IEM with a strong and sturdy cable. All stock cables I've tried on IEMs have been so flimsy. Shure headphones and IEMs have always fudged me over this. I just lost interest in them having to keep sending stuff back for repair or replacement. It's a shame since I loved having a pair for travelling.


 
 Have you used Audio Technica iems?
 I had a pair of CK10-s, i still have the cable  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. (attached to RE262s)


----------



## Zoom25

Just the casual stuff…like sometimes I drop my weights on them while working out, but other than that nothing extreme.
  
 LOL no I use them quite well. The Shure's IEM went out for me at the point where they connect to the driver. Now I do sometimes fell asleep while wearing them, but I do that all the time with my full sized headphones. My KNS 8400 have endured 2 years of that plus being rolled over by chair and the cable is in brand new condition.
  
 I have always gotten cables previously from Headphone Lounge. Always contacted Chris for them and paid him, but when I would receive the cables, they were always from Ted as indicated on the package. I heard they split up a while back. Don't know who to contact now.


----------



## Priidik

twoears said:


> ^^ I've also heard good things about the klipsch X10's. Might try those or similar if I ever break my RE-400's.
> 
> I like the HD800, HD600, HD650 sound signature and I can't stand IEM's with too much bass. Netural sound signature and tight bass is how I like it. The RE-400 does that but unfortunately it's a little bit on the "dry" side for me, it doesn't feel very fun. Maybe I'll come around, we'll see.


 
 I can recommend TDK IE800 and some Knowles TWFK based iems, both lively up top and good imaging abilities, almost neutral.
 These are usually under 150$. Although RE-400 bass is of noticeably better quality than a typical balanced armature, i really like their bass.


----------



## TwoEars

zoom25 said:


> I have yet to experience an IEM with a strong and sturdy cable. All stock cables I've tried on IEMs have been so flimsy. Shure headphones and IEMs have always fudged me over this. I just lost interest in them having to keep sending stuff back for repair or replacement. It's a shame since I loved having a pair for travelling.


 
  
 You really should try and pick up a pair of philips tread. Like this:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-SHO2300BK-ONeill-THE-TREAD-in-ear-headphones-SHO2300-Black-GENUINE-/331204033875?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item4d1d4c7d53
  
 The housing is aluminium, you can probably jump on them. The cable has some heavy duty sleeving, you'd need a serious pair of scissors.
  
 The plug is supposed to be unbreakable molded rubber, I managed to break it somehow. Probably a freak accident.
  
 Still these ones lasted longer than any other IEM's I've had, and the sound quality is great. I enjoyed the sound more than any other sub $200 IEM's I've tried. I think I might have to pick up a pair or two before they're all gone...


----------



## Audio Jester

How do you fit the HD800 in your ear? I've been trying for hours... Maybe cable first?


----------



## BobG55

audio jester said:


> How do you fit the HD800 in your ear? I've been trying for hours... Maybe cable first?


 
  
  
 Mmmm … translation : this is suppose to be a HD800 thread, right ? = +1 !


----------



## Audio Jester

bobg55 said:


> Mmmm … translation : this is suppose to be a HD800 thread, right ? = +1 !


----------



## Liminal

I've had my HD800s for almost two weeks, and they're terrific. I am driving them with a Woo Audio WA7 desktop amp. 
  
 One thing I've noticed is that I now prefer to listen at a lower volume. Previously I listened to the same amp with a pair of HD555s (modded for better soundstage & bass) and the volume dial was at 12 o'clock. When I first got my HD800s I was also listening at the same level. I found there to be much greater sound leakage from the new cans, and the overall volume to be higher. Gradually I found that the perfect setting is for the dial to be at 9 o'clock. I can hear much better detail and separation between mids and trebles, etc.
  
 Has anyone else noticed the same thing? Is there a particular reason why high-end headphones might sound "better" (subjectively) at lower volumes than higher volumes? (I am new to the site so this might have been discussed somewhere else, apologies if so.)


----------



## Hun7er

I find that the HD800 at high volume has tendency to be harsh


----------



## punit

liminal said:


> I've had my HD800s for almost two weeks, and they're terrific. I am driving them with a Woo Audio WA7 desktop amp.
> 
> One thing I've noticed is that I now prefer to listen at a lower volume. Previously I listened to the same amp with a pair of HD555s (modded for better soundstage & bass) and the volume dial was at 12 o'clock. When I first got my HD800s I was also listening at the same level. I found there to be much greater sound leakage from the new cans, and the overall volume to be higher. Gradually I found that the perfect setting is for the dial to be at 9 o'clock. I can hear much better detail and separation between mids and trebles, etc.
> 
> Has anyone else noticed the same thing? Is there a particular reason why high-end headphones might sound "better" (subjectively) at lower volumes than higher volumes? (I am new to the site so this might have been discussed somewhere else, apologies if so.)


 

 My experience is that in most low or mid fi HP's you need to turn up the volume in order to hear the minute details on a track & even then some will be lost. But with TOTL HP's because of the high resolving capability of their drivers you get all the deatils even at low volume so you need not pump up the volume. Unless you are a bass head like me , sometimes you just want the bass pounding into your brain.


----------



## Priidik

liminal said:


> Gradually I found that the perfect setting is for the dial to be at 9 o'clock. I can hear much better detail and separation between mids and trebles, etc.
> 
> Has anyone else noticed the same thing? Is there a particular reason why high-end headphones might sound "better" (subjectively) at lower volumes than higher volumes? (I am new to the site so this might have been discussed somewhere else, apologies if so.)


 
  
 High SPL (sound pressure level) stresses ears more, and results in ear fatigue sooner, but it has little to do with HD800, or any true high end headphone, i think. 
 Some headphones or even amplifiers produce high distortion at high SPLs, limiting dynamics, and melting sounds together. Think of typical car audio. 
 HD800 distortion level at 100dB is under 1%, which is very loud and very clear. 
 Although they have a bit excessive treble energy, which at higher SPLs might be more irritating to some.
  
 Usually 'subjectively better' is the other way around --> louder sounds better. This is because of  the ear 
 sensitivity changes to hear low and high frequencies better. 
 Nevertheless, i find the HD800 to be as enjoyable at low levels as high levels.


----------



## Audio Jester

punit said:


> My experience is that in most low or mid fi HP's you need to turn up the volume in order to hear the minute details on a track & even then some will be lost. But with TOTL HP's because of the high resolving capability of their drivers you get all the deatils even at low volume so you need not pump up the volume. Unless you are a bass head like me , sometimes you just want the bass pounding into your brain.


 absolutely agree! I find I am turning the volume down more the better my rig gets... But there's a time for blurring your vision with epic bass.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I feel the same . 
Al


----------



## pearljam50000

What speakers sound the closest to the HD800?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Wel I will give a really good answer that will start a really big bashing and debate .. And most likely a moderator showing up as well hahaha. Not because of me though. 

The short answer is no speakers atleast not any good one. 
Why cause speakers are top dog in ways no headphone Can handle. Even though the same is true with a hd800 headphone. 
The high achy is as follows iem,s CIEMS, headphones , speakers. 
The rule to follow is what gives the most detail in a real sounding way. Only speakers do this simply because that is the way we hear music or any sound for that matter. 
Go in a forest a listen to the wind it's all around you not in your head. .
Now next is kind of surround sound. Again only speakers give you the staging and ambience of the recording. Some will say headphones do they do not at all. Headphones are completely fake in any representation of the sounds we hear at a live or personnel venue . Take any recoding and play it on headphones and then speakers it will sound very diffident . Music recorded up close is ok with speakers but not so good with headphones. So a dac with an Up close presentation is not as good a s dac with a little laid back .
The only type of headphone getting the speaker type sound is a planar like the he6. .even the lcd3 with EQ gets close but the he6 is top dog a this. 
Speakers give you a complete sound all around you not in your head. Ok there you have it.
Al


----------



## MickeyVee

Other than dimensional presentation, I find that my Martin Logan's provide similar tonality and detail.  On the Martin Logan Owners site, whenever there is talk about headphones, which is rare, pretty much only the HD800 come up and that's paired with a tube amp.


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> Wel I will give a really good answer that will start a really big bashing and debate .. And most likely a moderator showing up as well hahaha. Not because of me though.
> 
> The short answer is no speakers atleast not any good one.
> Why cause speakers are top dog in ways no headphone Can handle. Even though the same is true with a hd800 headphone.
> ...


 
 That is assuming that the way we hear sound naturally is actual better or more enjoyable. 
  
 I think it is - others might not agree


----------



## ALRAINBOW

That us a very giid speaker but an electro static type. 
Very detailed and fast. But they do image much better than any headphone. 
I have twinsets of infinity speakers they two produce sound front and back 
So a simaler sound but a little thicker note. 
Play social club track 5 and 6 with the hd800 
Then with your Logan's. There is no comparison 
The recordings sound very real on speakers not on headphones. 
They is almost no ambience with headphones. 
What ligans donu have summit ??


----------



## ALRAINBOW

This a good discussion and I think your point is valid. 
But we must have some basis as to how they are compared 
Al


----------



## MickeyVee

Vista's with a Grotto i sub.
 Quote:


alrainbow said:


> What ligans donu have summit ??


----------



## ALRAINBOW

What Logan's do you have ? Summit is model 
Al


----------



## icebear

LOL, insider speak combined with AL's encryption


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> This a good discussion and I think your point is valid.
> But we must have some basis as to how they are compared
> Al


 
 One other thing that might not get mentioned is how people react differently depending on the rig they started with. 
  
 I am only really familiar with high end headphone rigs and not many speaker ones. It is possible that you are biased depending on the rig you grew up with. 
  
 If you started with speakers you will always compare your headphones to them and if you started with headphones (like me) then you will compare speakers to those. 
  
 Now I will accept that top tear Speaker Rigs are better than top tear headphone rigs but of the vast majority of whats out there up to the 15000 dollars price range; I would go for Headphone rigs. At least that is my opinion at the moment ( which could change in the future).


----------



## preproman

Paddy you make a good point.  Dollar for dollar a set of speaker vs. a pair of headphones which one comes out on top?


----------



## Zoom25

If I had to absolutely pick between a $15,000 HD800 rig or something like a pair of ATCSCM150 ASL PRO, I'd go with the latter.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Headphones and speakers are too different to say what us better unless the comparison as difining parameters 
For speakers are better. Top in what I want tom listen too 
It gives a much more real representation of what I think the recording should sound like. 
Al


----------



## Priidik

I sort of agree with Zoom25.
 It is a question of compromises one is willing to make.
 Speakers that can beat high end HD800 rig can perhaps be had for less money,
 but then one must have a room with exceptional acoustics.


----------



## koiloco

zoom25 said:


> If I had to absolutely pick between a $15,000 HD800 rig or something like a pair of ATCSCM150 ASL PRO, I'd go with the latter.


 

 +1


----------



## preproman

zoom25 said:


> If I had to absolutely pick between a $15,000 HD800 rig or something like a pair of ATCSCM150 ASL PRO, I'd go with the latter.


 
 How much are the ATCSCM150 ASL PRO?
  
 I'm sure there are some $15,000 HD800 rigs out there - But not many.  If we use the same DAC for both rigs at say around 4K and the amps cost 4K each (Headphone amp for the headphones and Speaker amp for the speakers), a pair of  HD800s cost $1,500 vs.a set of speakers at $1,500 - This would put the speakers at $750 each.  Just breaking it down.


----------



## MickeyVee

+1 - personally, I'd even pick a good $7K rig (speakers/amp/DAC) over an equivilant HD800 rig but glad I have both types of systems.For me, they really complement eachother.
 Quote:


zoom25 said:


> If I had to absolutely pick between a $15,000 HD800 rig or something like a pair of ATCSCM150 ASL PRO, I'd go with the latter.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

It's not mine though does that count ??


----------



## icebear

On weekdays I usually have only time to listen to music late evenings, just before going to bed. I can't crank up the speakers to a joyful level as the room is open and I can't close any doors, so the entire house would be "enjoying" Miles or Keith or John .. take you pick.
 While I totally agree that the presentation of speakers is completely different from headphone, I am thoroughly enjoying listening to music again since I have the HD800. Simply because of room/house acoustics and not bothering other family members with my music preference.
  
 That rig might be a little over $15k , AL ?


----------



## Canadian411

You can get Double Helix Spore M cable for $15,000. Then you can add hd800, and fiio portable amp to makeit just over $15,000.  jk. 

Ok its on sale for $12,000.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Hahahaha. It just seemed good at the time . Anyway it's all about choice in the end. But I am glad others agree that they are very different . This was the point I was trying to make . I really wish headphones sounded more like speakers in the ambience of the sound around the music then we would have a closer to perfection presentstion atleast for me anyway. I go on other forums andost virtues of headphones and get bashed for even talking about it. It's funny here headphones rule and there speakers. I can add there more places like speakers we are the monarity in some places .
Al


----------



## kantana

Just an observation, bought my HD800 a few weeks back.  Using them with Hugo mostly at home.  Tried my daps to see if any were adequate to drive them, DX50/DX90/AK240 etc but not even close.  Then dug out the DX100 and it sounds good!  Only issue is where to wrap 3m of cable for portability...


----------



## Zoom25

The HD800 are ridiculously comfortable and they secure quite well. Theres's no way I would dare to tilt my head more than a few degrees with the Audezes and Hifiman due to the weight and them falling off. The HD800 seem more secure about this. Although I would not trust my self with any of the high end phones, including HD800, to fall asleep with or just completely lay down flat. Speakers allow you that freedom. Also, good phase coherent speakers, like the Genelec 8260, allow you to to get lazy and off axis without sounding all weird. I enjoy the freedom much more on the speakers. There's way less fatigue on speakers.
  
 So if HD800 go for $1500 and we can hook them up with to say an additional $2000-$4000 rig (which doesn't seem crazy at all for this thread's standard), we're looking at about $4000-$6000. For that money, I could get really close in performance to HD800 and of course have the benefits of speakers
  
 I'd go the active monitors route over separate DAC+AMP+passive speakers. I really enjoy not having to deal with hifi components anymore. Not only can you get better (at least in my case) sound most of the time on monitors, but also remove the pain of component matching and synergy and all that.
  
 So get a Dangerous Source DAC + controller for a $1000 which basically takes on the BDA-2 and M51 in my experience and your pre-amp and DAC is out the way.
  
 With the remaining $3000-$5000 for active monitors (takes care of amp + speakers). There's a bunch of stuff out there, but let's go with some Genelec 8050, 1037 or the new kick ass DSP line up. These can be had used for that price. Ridiculous value. These are used everywhere around the world over the 90s and 00s. I specifically mention Genelec because like the HD800, people usually attribute the same type of sound = very clean and transparent, yet can be aggressive. Of course, not all owners feel this way, just like the HD800 owners here. 
  
 There's more stuff from Focal, Dynaudio, Neumann, Adam around that price that I'd still pick over a HD800 rig at that price for overall enjoyment and even sound appreciation over the HD800 rig, if I had to ABSOLUTELY choose between them.
  
 If I have both speakers and headphones in front of me, the headphones will pretty much not get touched. Only if the situation calls for it. Having said that, I'd still want a HD800 and a GS-X rig type of rig and call it a day. I have lost my interest in trying out every new headphone coming out and waiting with anticipation. I much prefer to get one fitting headphone and not have to worry again for a long, long time. Same with speakers. Get used to the equipment and then start enjoying the actual substance (music, movies, TV, gaming).
  
 ^ all IMO of course (Ha I'm safe now
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## kugino

i don't dare tilt my head when wearing my he500. my neck would snap.


----------



## Canadian411

kugino said:


> i don't dare tilt my head when wearing my he500. my neck would snap.




Lol. That's the reason I sold and never going to buy audeze.


----------



## Zoom25

preproman said:


> *How much are the ATCSCM150 ASL PRO?*
> 
> I'm sure there are some $15,000 HD800 rigs out there - But not many.  If we use the same DAC for both rigs at say around 4K and the amps cost 4K each (Headphone amp for the headphones and Speaker amp for the speakers), a pair of  HD800s cost $1,500 vs.a set of speakers at $1,500 - This would put the speakers at $750 each.  Just breaking it down.


 
  
 I've seen them for as low as $16-17,000 used.
  
 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SCM150ASL/
  
 These are mid fields. I prefer using mid fields or border line nearfields/midfields. They have the right SPL for big room and the fatigue is gone from being really close to the speakers all the time.
  
*EDIT*: I have a pair of HR824 mk1 which can be had for quite cheap nowadays. They go for $700 new a piece so fit your criteria of $1500. For movies, TV shows and some music stuff, I'd still take the HR824 over HD800. The Source tightens them up and I have decent room size and acoustic treatment to allow them to breathe and still be tight.


----------



## preproman

zoom25 said:


> I've seen them for as low as $16-17,000 used.
> 
> http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SCM150ASL/
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 OK - that's what I was asking...


----------



## magiccabbage

How often would you guys recommend changing pads on HD800? I use mine for 2 hours daily and have had them now for 7 months. 
 That's an average of 400 hours. You think that warrants a change? Maybe after 1000?


----------



## 62ohm

magiccabbage said:


> How often would you guys recommend changing pads on HD800? I use mine for 2 hours daily and have had them now for 7 months.
> That's an average of 400 hours. You think that warrants a change? Maybe after 1000?


 
  
 I use mine for roughly 8~10 hours a day and have had them for 6 months, which sums up to about 1.620 hours usage and it still look like new.


----------



## TwoEars

I've detached mine and washed them gently with soap a couple of times.
  
 They're actually really easy to detach when you know the trick. Grab the bottom edge of the pad with the thumb and index finger and push/pull up and towards the center of the headphone, where your head would be. The pad should come loose without too much force.


----------



## 62ohm

I stumbled upon these videos that guides me through when I was cleaning mine


----------



## Priidik

zoom25 said:


> I've seen them for as low as $16-17,000 used.
> 
> http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SCM150ASL/
> 
> ...


 
 I have heard these Mackie's and a bunch of others + my own Genelecs , in a mediocre room  (your regular room) i would pick a good headphone rig instead... 98% of the time.


----------



## wink

^ Yay !!!!!!


----------



## Zoom25

priidik said:


> I have heard these Mackie's and a bunch of others + my own Genelecs , in a mediocre room  (your regular room) i would pick a good headphone rig instead... 98% of the time.


 
 True, room makes a big difference. In my living room on the main floor, it sounds horrible. The walls and wooden floor are garbage for that. Gave up on it.
  
 That's why I relocated that rig to my basement. Currently in a 20 meter x 8 meter big room. Decent placement, breathing space from the wall and took care of corners and first reflections with natural but effective furniture stuff. For example, book cases with books completely filled. Curtains and dead cabinets. 50 pound stands and recoil stabilizers. The walls, floors, ceiling and most furniture in that room is very, very dead sounding. Even for movies, there's minimal light reflection.
  
 Of course, I'd love to have a designated room built for this, but for the moment, it's serving me quite well. Much better than typical house rooms.


----------



## MickeyVee

60+ feet by 24+ feet?? Wow! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Quote:


zoom25 said:


> That's why I relocated that rig to my basement. Currently in a 20 meter x 8 meter big room.


----------



## Audio Jester

Personally I don't understand how people can compare headphones with speakers, they are totally different beasts. It's like comparing cars to motorbikes, both can take you round a track but the experience is very different. If you are comparing them on cost:sonority then it is again very similar to the bike vs car analogy; cars are on average more expensive but you can still have a decent race car which is cheaper than a high end bike.
My 2¢.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Hahahaha yes you are correct as I agree. But as one is not better the two together give you a far more better understanding of the music we listsn to as well as the devices we use in the chain .
Al


----------



## Zoom25

mickeyvee said:


> 60+ feet by 24+ feet?? Wow!


 
 Roughly…+/-
  
 Of course, my listening position is only 8 feet away from the speakers. I'd love to be closer to the speakers and make the triangle smaller, but then the 60" tv just seems a bit overwhelming if I get any closer. The good thing is that a 20 Hz can go the full length of the room before reflecting off the back wall. Although I have bunch of stuff along the way that there won't be a benefit of formally treating the back wall.
  
 Also, despite the size, I can clap really hard, yet no echoes and very minimum reverbs. It's a dead room.


----------



## froger

A few pages ago, people treated this as an IEM thread, now people started imagining this as a speakers thread...:confused_face:


----------



## TwoEars

froger said:


> A few pages ago, people treated this as an IEM thread, now people started imagining this as a speakers thread...


 

 The HD800 is a multifacetted animal; comparisons to IEMs and speakers are inevitable.
  
 As is general complaints from those who fail to grasp these implications.


----------



## Maxvla

Everyone else strives to compare to the best, right?


----------



## 62ohm

audio jester said:


> Personally I don't understand how people can compare headphones with speakers, they are totally different beasts. It's like comparing cars to motorbikes, both can take you round a track but the experience is very different. If you are comparing them on cost:sonority then it is again very similar to the bike vs car analogy; cars are on average more expensive but you can still have a decent race car which is cheaper than a high end bike.
> My 2¢.


 
  
 I see speakers vs headphones exactly like cars vs bikes in term of speed/pace. You can get blazing fast (factory) bikes for much less than (factory) cars, so with the same budget it's a no-contest win for bikes. But with enormous budget, cars are much faster than bikes, just like how Formula 1 cars are 30 seconds a lap quicker than MotoGP bikes. 
  
 My point, IMO headphones can't compete with enormous budget speaker rigs with room built around the rig.


----------



## magiccabbage

62ohm said:


> I see speakers vs headphones exactly like cars vs bikes in term of speed/pace. You can get blazing fast (factory) bikes for much less than (factory) cars, so with the same budget it's a no-contest win for bikes. But with enormous budget, cars are much faster than bikes, just like how Formula 1 cars are 30 seconds a lap quicker than MotoGP bikes.
> 
> My point, IMO headphones can't compete with enormous budget speaker rigs with room built around the rig.


 
 your right they cant but it is nice to hear all the opinions. 
  
 Some people think that the cut off for where speakers take the lead - 
 is around the 7-10 thousand dollar range and others (like me) think -
 that it is much higher - about 15000 and up. But, maybe my opinion is -
 biased because I grew up listening to headphones. 
  
 I think it is important to talk about these things and it is enjoyable as well.
 The idea that you cant compare both is something that doesn't sit well with me -
 they are both tools for listening to music and i think that when people talk -
 about the differences and voice there opinions it provides insight and there is room -
 for learning.
  
  
 For example i find it interesting that i prefer to listen to a headphone that was designed to sound -
 like a speaker (HD800) rather than listen to the speaker itself.


----------



## drez

alrainbow said:


> Wel I will give a really good answer that will start a really big bashing and debate .. And most likely a moderator showing up as well hahaha. Not because of me though.
> 
> The short answer is no speakers atleast not any good one.
> Why cause speakers are top dog in ways no headphone Can handle. Even though the same is true with a hd800 headphone.
> ...


 
  
 Ahh now I think I understand why you say a DAC is better with headphones and another DAC better with speakers.  it is a good point though as if a DAC has some ambience, impact or harmonic richness instead of more forward presentation characteristics then it will probably sound closer to speakers in some ways.  
  
 I tend to think though that this might be a bit counterproductive unless you simply can't stand the difference in presentation and soundstage with headphones.  I am blessed in that I don't have room for speakers, nor money to build a speaker system with the kind of musical characteristics and performance level which I currently find important and which the HD800 can provide.
  
 The thing with presentation is that it is an illusion, either because it is the invention of a sound engineer in a recording studio, or because of any system does not accurately reproduce the original event, or both.  The imaging thing is a real drawback, but it is mostly the result of records being mixed for speakers.  In a time where headphones are used more than speakers it seems wrong priority.


----------



## punit

Well speaking of HD 800 & Speakers, I recently acquired a AGD Master 9. For someone who listens to Speakers as well as HP's this is a no brainer. Amazing pre-amp capabilities to drive power amp's with speakers / HE 6 & the HP amp is amazing with HD 800 - extended treble without any sibilance & hard hitting bass. Even if you do not need the pre-amp section the amp section is good enough to recommend it as a top notch HP amp.
  
 I never thought I could enjoy HD 800's on a SS amp but the M9 has blasted that notion to smithereens.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yes the M9 is a very good headphone amp. The M7and M9 
Combo is very good. Now the combo is on the warm side if neutral as such would help with sibilance 
Kingwa s stuff is very good with headphones 
Al


----------



## nigeljames

punit said:


> Well speaking of HD 800 & Speakers, I recently acquired a AGD Master 9. For someone who listens to Speakers as well as HP's this is a no brainer. Amazing pre-amp capabilities to drive power amp's with speakers / HE 6 & the HP amp is amazing with HD 800 - extended treble without any sibilance & hard hitting bass. Even if you do not need the pre-amp section the amp section is good enough to recommend it as a top notch HP amp.
> 
> I never thought I could enjoy HD 800's on a SS amp but the M9 has blasted that notion to smithereens.


 
  
 I love my Master-6 with the HD800's as well. Brings out the best attributes of the 800's.
  
 Nice to know the pre-amp is high quality as well. Have not used my pre-amp section yet but may need to in the future.
  
 Enjoy your amp.


----------



## Zoom25

I really want to try out a Master 9. Maybe go that route and save money and time instead of a GS-X. How does the Master 9 compare to something like the Taurus? Mostly concerned with amping HD800 through all the amps.


----------



## icebear

amictus said:


> Had an HD800 moment there: Debussy, Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune - OSR, Ansermet. The headphones melted away and I wasn't in front of loudspeakers, I was in the concert hall. Thank you, Sennheiser. Thank you, Norbert Lehmann.


 

 I got the CD about a week ago and just finally listened to it for the first time.
 What a performance by orchestra and conductor and a spectacular recording that captured this so brilliantly.
 THANK YOU again for mentioning this masterpiece 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## 62ohm

Has anyone tried the HA-501 with HD800? I'm curious about how this amp pairs with the HD800 and how it compares to the V200 or other <$1.000 SS amp.


----------



## Amictus

icebear said:


> I got the CD about a week ago and just finally listened to it for the first time.
> What a performance by orchestra and conductor and a spectacular recording that captured this so brilliantly.
> THANK YOU again for mentioning this masterpiece
> 
> ...


----------



## drez

nigeljames said:


> I love my Master-6 with the HD800's as well. Brings out the best attributes of the 800's.
> 
> Nice to know the pre-amp is high quality as well. Have not used my pre-amp section yet but may need to in the future.
> 
> Enjoy your amp.


 
  
 It is a good match IMO, transparent, neutral but without etch or glare, very refined.  When you consider the tech and capabilities nothing can get near it at the price.
  
 Possible downside is that some might find it too dry or neutral.
  
 Master 9 is apparently warmer, GSX mkii I heard recently was also warmer.  I would like to hear the Master 9, but not sure if it needs the extra class A bias just for HD800.  The better internal hook up wiring can't hurt either.


----------



## Reactcore

Perhaps i posted on the wrong place.. Im looking for ideas on how to determine if a hd800 is fake or not.
I made this thread:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/720949/new-senns-hd800-for-under-900-euros-ordered-on-ebay-just-hope-theyre-not-fake-when-i-get-them

Just hope some1 answers.. :confused_face_2:


----------



## Chodi

reactcore said:


> Perhaps i posted on the wrong place.. Im looking for ideas on how to determine if a hd800 is fake or not.
> I made this thread:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/720949/new-senns-hd800-for-under-900-euros-ordered-on-ebay-just-hope-theyre-not-fake-when-i-get-them
> ...


 
 I see you have posted this in 2 places. It is impossible for anyone to tell you if those you posted about are real but I have never seen nor heard of fake HD800's. I'm not saying they don't exist, but they would be incredibly difficult to copy. I guess you will know when they arrive. I should think if they were not genuine it would be obvious. Considering the technology necessary to make a believable copy I think you are pretty safe.


----------



## Mahdi8

reactcore said:


> Perhaps i posted on the wrong place.. Im looking for ideas on how to determine if a hd800 is fake or not.
> I made this thread:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/720949/new-senns-hd800-for-under-900-euros-ordered-on-ebay-just-hope-theyre-not-fake-when-i-get-them
> ...




Its more expensive than genuine hd800 price in places like hong Kong so I doubt its fake. Cheapest hd800 from grey import site is only $1050 and that's delivered price to most country


----------



## preproman

drez said:


> It is a good match IMO, transparent, neutral but without etch or glare, very refined.  When you consider the tech and capabilities nothing can get near it at the price.
> 
> Possible downside is that some might find it too dry or neutral.
> 
> Master 9 is apparently warmer, GSX mkii I heard recently was also warmer.  I would like to hear the Master 9, *but not sure if it needs the extra class A bias just for HD800*.  The better internal hook up wiring can't hurt either.


 
  
 Why not?  Just asking...  Are you thinking Class A = overly warm?  Or what are you saying here?


----------



## drez

preproman said:


> Why not?  Just asking...  Are you thinking Class A = overly warm?  Or what are you saying here?


 
  
 My impression was that adding more Class A bias tends to result in a warmer sound all things being equal (what I read also indicates M9 has warmer mids and bass than M6), and that IIRC HD800's don't need the all the power of the M9, so why adjust the bias for power that wont be used (that is assuming the full power is not needed)?  I personally don't want anything warmer than the Master 6 as to me it sounds pretty neutral and any added warmth would be moving away from that.  Who knows though I might prefer the warmer sound of the M9 so long as it doesn't sound slower or murkier.


----------



## preproman

drez said:


> My impression was that adding more Class A bias tends to result in a warmer sound all things being equal (what I read also indicates M9 has warmer mids and bass than M6), and that IIRC HD800's don't need the all the power of the M9, so why adjust the bias for power that wont be used (that is assuming the full power is not needed)?  I personally don't want anything warmer than the Master 6 as to me it sounds pretty neutral and any added warmth would be moving away from that.  Who knows though I might prefer the warmer sound of the M9 so long as it doesn't sound slower or murkier.


 
  
 Gotcha.  
  
 In my experience with my First Watt amp that's pure Class A.  This does not = to any more warmth.  The Master 3 I heard in comparison is a much more warmer amp than the F1J.  However, all other Class A/B amps I've heard are more on the cold side compared to the F1J.  Not sure exactly what the GS-X mk2 is "pure class A or Class A/B" but it's a tad bit warmer compared to the F1J as well - in a very good way.


----------



## whirlwind

mahdi8 said:


> Its more expensive than genuine hd800 price in places like hong Kong so I doubt its fake. Cheapest hd800 from grey import site is only $1050 and that's delivered price to most country


 

 So I can order a new HD800 from here for $1050 delivered to the united states and be sure it is the real deal


----------



## icebear

Common sense always tells : "If it sounds to good to be true, it most likely is".
 But why do they call is commom sense, if it's so rare ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Just my 2 sense, eh cents.


----------



## whirlwind

icebear said:


> Common sense always tells : "If it sounds to good to be true, it most likely is".
> But why do they call is commom sense, if it's so rare ?
> 
> 
> ...


 

 well...grados are cheap in the states......not so much in Europe


----------



## Reactcore

chodi said:


> I see you have posted this in 2 places. It is impossible for anyone to tell you if those you posted about are real but I have never seen nor heard of fake HD800's. I'm not saying they don't exist, but they would be incredibly difficult to copy. I guess you will know when they arrive. I should think if they were not genuine it would be obvious. Considering the technology necessary to make a believable copy I think you are pretty safe.




Sorry i posted here, its just ive seen some stunning comparissons of coppies of items on youtube also older senn models even soundwise coming close, not perfect offcourse
Maybe ppl have a copy without knowing it since few can compare to other genuine ones.


----------



## Reactcore

whirlwind said:


> So I can order a new HD800 from here for $1050 delivered to the united states and be sure it is the real deal




For this price i only find used ones here..


----------



## Mahdi8

http://www.eglobaldigitalcameras.com.au/sennheiser-hd800-on-ear-home-cinema-hifi-headphones.html my friend bought from them 2 weeks ago. Definitely not fake. That price is Australian dollar.


----------



## Mahdi8

They ship frong hongkong shipped with FedEx I think and it took only 4 days to arrive to Australia


----------



## Liminal

mahdi8 said:


> http://www.eglobaldigitalcameras.com.au/sennheiser-hd800-on-ear-home-cinema-hifi-headphones.html my friend bought from them 2 weeks ago. Definitely not fake. That price is Australian dollar.


 
 I bought from them 3 weeks ago. Not fake. 
  
 Also I don't think there would be much of a market for fake Sennheiser HD800s. The cost of producing them versus the amount you would sell? Seems like a bad idea.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

mahdi8 said:


> http://www.eglobaldigitalcameras.com.au/sennheiser-hd800-on-ear-home-cinema-hifi-headphones.html my friend bought from them 2 weeks ago. Definitely not fake. That price is Australian dollar.





That is $984.87 in $, an excellent deal, anybody purchased here?


----------



## Liminal

wildcatsare1 said:


> That is $984.87 in $, an excellent deal, anybody purchased here?


 
  
 Yes, I have. The product was fine. 
  
 Keep in mind these are grey market prices. You won't get a manufacturer's warranty. It's a gamble I was willing to take, because I figure in the very slim chance that something goes wrong in 2 years, I can pay for a repair.


----------



## Zoom25

Anyone have experience with how Sennheiser handles RMA after the warranty period is over? Any idea of how much they would charge for a driver replacement or internal damage?


----------



## icebear

RMA = return merchandise authorization  , correct ?
  
 Why would Senneheiser have anything to do with this? You always return merchandise to the seller, not to the manufacturer unless explicitly stated in the terms of sale.
  
 In case you need a repair, that's obviously something else and I guess they (Sennheiser) would play it on a case to case basis. If for whatever reason there are "a lot" of defects with units sold via some grey market soucre, maybe the refuse to repair, or if they legally can't do that, charge some extra.
 Go to their website, there's a long list of unauthorized vendors, maybe also some fineprint what happens if any of these units need service. I don't care about this as I bought mine from headamp.


----------



## magiccabbage

icebear said:


> RMA = return merchandise authorization  , correct ?
> 
> Why would Senneheiser have anything to do with this? You always return merchandise to the seller, not to the manufacturer unless explicitly stated in the terms of sale.
> 
> ...


 
 The unauthorized vendors are listed? That's interesting. Are they fake headphones or just illegally obtained HD800's? I would presume it would be next to impossible to create a fake HD800.


----------



## rgs9200m

I called Sennheiser in CT once for an issue and they spoke to me and treated me well with my problem. They seem pretty customer-service oriented there.


----------



## Reactcore

Where are the serialnumbers now, did it pass the 30.000 yet, mine should have somewhere close 
If itll say 10,xxx for example then ill know they not new..


----------



## Maxvla

Could just be unsold stock. Unlikely, but possible.


----------



## pearljam50000

How is the HD800 with Metal?


----------



## eugenius

It has some Metal in it - mainly around the ears.


----------



## magiccabbage

eugenius said:


> It has some Metal in it - mainly around the ears.


 
 haha


----------



## pearljam50000




----------



## Frank I

Burning in the new Nordost Heimdall 2 with the hd800- Very Impressive cable


----------



## pearljam50000

Sorry for the off topic question, but what's the best way to transport the HD800 and take them on a flight in a luggage/suitcase?
 Is it possible just to put them in their original box?or should i add some extra protection somehow? i am affraid the luggage will be tossed by the airline(like all luggage) and i'm not sure if the temp in the middle of the airplane won't damage it.


----------



## Liminal

pearljam50000 said:


> Sorry for the off topic question, but what's the best way to transport the HD800 and take them on a flight in a luggage/suitcase?
> Is it possible just to put them in their original box?or should i add some extra protection somehow? i am affraid the luggage will be tossed by the airline(like all luggage) and i'm not sure if the temp in the middle of the airplane won't damage it.


 
 I will be taking mine from Australia to Canada soon. I plan to put them in the original case, then the case inside the cardboard box, then lots of bubble wrap around the box. Then jam the box securely with clothes around it inside my suitcase. Should be OK.
  
 The temperature in the cargo hold of a passenger jet should be fine. That's how most cargo travels around the world, right? If you buy any headphones that get couriered from another location to you, that's how they would travel, I would have thought.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

liminal said:


> I will be taking mine from Australia to Canada soon. I plan to put them in the original case, then the case inside the cardboard box, then lots of bubble wrap around the box. Then jam the box securely with clothes around it inside my suitcase. Should be OK.
> 
> The temperature in the cargo hold of a passenger jet should be fine. That's how most cargo travels around the world, right? If you buy any headphones that get couriered from another location to you, that's how they would travel, I would have thought.


 
  
 That sounds pretty solid to me.
  
 You could also get a Pelican case like Audeze supplies.  They are available in small sizes at specialty camera stores.


----------



## Zoom25

icebear said:


> RMA = return merchandise authorization  , correct ?
> 
> Why would Senneheiser have anything to do with this? You always return merchandise to the seller, not to the manufacturer unless explicitly stated in the terms of sale.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, that's what RMA stands for. You usually only contact the seller if the product was under warranty. I specifically wanted to know details for when the warranty is over. In that case, you would have to contact Sennheiser. I just wanted to get an idea of how/if anyone had to pay after their warranty was over. For example, Hifiman charges around $120 for a driver fix after warranty. So wanted to get a ballpark of how Senn handles it directly.


----------



## whirlwind

Well, I just joined the HD800 club......I am getting a pair 2nd hand from the b/s/t/ forums.
  
 I can't wait to hear them, but it wont be until this weekend ..........Bonamassa better sound good  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am pretty stoked.


----------



## kvtaco17

whirlwind said:


> Well, I just joined the HD800 club......I am getting a pair 2nd hand from the b/s/t/ forums.
> 
> I can't wait to hear them, but it wont be until this weekend ..........Bonamassa better sound good
> 
> ...


 

 CONGRATS WELCOME TO THE COLLECTIVE LMAO!


----------



## traehekat

Does anyone have experience using the HD800 with the CLAS-db and ALO Rx Mk3?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Me me me . I have the them I can check it out tonoihpght . 
If I do not pm me to remind me .
Al


----------



## Canadian411

traehekat said:


> Does anyone have experience using the HD800 with the CLAS-db and ALO Rx Mk3?




I had clas -db and sr71b. Not impressive at all. Both clas and sr71 are over priced imo.

If you can avoid portable route then just get full size. 

I really don't like the look of chord hugo but might consider that since there is choice.


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> Me me me . I have the them I can check it out tonoihpght .
> If I do not pm me to remind me .
> Al




Haha Al. You have everything!! I am jealous.

Can you let me know chord hugo vs clas alomk3?


----------



## traehekat

canadian411 said:


> I had clas -db and sr71b. Not impressive at all. Both clas and sr71 are over priced imo.
> 
> If you can avoid portable route then just get full size.
> 
> I really don't like the look of chord hugo but might consider that since there is choice.




What did you find lacking?

Assuming I can't avoid it, is there a better portable option?*EDIT* my fault... chord Hugo ha.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I will sir. And regarding my stuff I am old man 57 I want to try everything before I go to the next life hahahahaha. .
Al


----------



## Canadian411

traehekat said:


> What did you find lacking?
> 
> Assuming I can't avoid it, is there a better portable option?*EDIT* my fault... chord Hugo ha.




Well I don't really like the dark sounding or amp with the added flavour.
Sr71b had the warm sound and nothing special. Two sr71b i had the hissing when the volume is very high (with the high gain) altho you can manually fix this by turning left and right several times but was just annoying.

Clas -db is a good dac,it extends the trebles,really beautiful sparkling trebles I experienced with jazz and female vocale but that's about it.

I was not impressed with the soundstage on clas.

When I compare my old burson 160ds vs sr71b+clas, its a no match. Burson out performs.

Imo clas or sr71b aren't that aggressive like burson amps.

If you throw in the price factor,

Sr71b/alomk3+,clas -db plus interconnects $1300

You can get lot of better full size at that price imo.

Just my experience. Ymmv


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> I will sir. And regarding my stuff I am old man 57 I want to try everything before I go to the next life hahahahaha. .
> Al




I thought you are in your mid 30s somehow.. haha. I am getting there slowly...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yea you might of read I have a7 year old kid. This might have thrown you off . Anyway. Let's see in the morning how it sounds a few say it's really good . I am hopeful .
Al


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> Yea you might of read I have a7 year old kid. This might have thrown you off . Anyway. Let's see in the morning how it sounds a few say it's really good . I am hopeful .
> Al




Haha I think because I saw you in a white convertible lambo few months ago.
Maybe diff person.

I feel like I should buy as much as I can before I get married


----------



## ALRAINBOW

That me on the right. I did have alambo that was son in the pic . It was few years back though a lease . 
That is the only pic I had of the car. I never tale pics of any cars or things I have . Only a few I have posted here to tell,you the truth. 
I will,post it as soon as I can find it .
You have a good memory , bill collector ? 
Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

One of my sons 30 birthday in FLORIDA I think .
I think it was a GALARZA something .
Al


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> That me on the right. I did have alambo that was son in the pic . It was few years back though a lease .
> That is the only pic I had of the car. I never tale pics of any cars or things I have . Only a few I have posted here to tell,you the truth.
> I will,post it as soon as I can find it .
> You have a good memory , bill collector ?
> Al




Haha, nope. I just run a small IT firm. 
But I collect some bills.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I am a contractor I know about collecting bills too.
Al


----------



## Frank I

The Oppo HA-1 works well with the HD80. It sounds  fantastic actually. I am also using the Nordost Heimdall 11 cable balanced with the HA-1.  I think the soundstage is very wide and the music is jsut flowing. the base is defined as well as the terrific mid-range.


----------



## Canadian411

frank i said:


> The Oppo HA-1 works well with the HD80. It sounds  fantastic actually. I am also using the Nordost Heimdall 11 cable balanced with the HA-1.  I think the soundstage is very wide and the music is jsut flowing. the base is defined as well as the terrific mid-range.



Yape I am waitong for the silver one


----------



## pearljam50000

How is it possible to know that the HD800's are underpowered? only by weak bass?


----------



## kazsud

pearljam50000 said:


> How is it possible to know that the HD800's are underpowered? only by weak bass?




It's a red flag. But doesn't mean it isn't doing well in the other part if the spectrum


----------



## TwoEars

This is a nice buy for the HD800...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/717689/ray-samuel-the-raptor-220v-with-extra-tubes
  
 Anyone who has 220V?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

The hd 800 are dificult to describe without hearing it. The headphones when done well are a pinical reference headphone. Wrongly they are everything you hear about them negative. . Sibilant , thin , Brite and all,the other bad things. When done well,they are startling . The same is true with the he6. Very good heshone when correct. There are amps some say are fine for the HE6 , the hdvd800 or the wa22. They are not at all. But watch and read how I get told I am wrong in this thread. But the he 6 is much easier to pickup out when it's wrong. It is thin , shallow , Brite. .
Al


----------



## Mahdi8

twoears said:


> This is a nice buy for the HD800...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/717689/ray-samuel-the-raptor-220v-with-extra-tubes
> 
> Anyone who has 220V?


 
 Just saw that and looks to be good price used. I'm currently using bottlehead crack + speedball with HD800 and absolutely loved it. I wonder if the raptor trumps it


----------



## akhyar

frank i said:


> The Oppo HA-1 works well with the HD80. It sounds  fantastic actually. I am also using the Nordost Heimdall 11 cable balanced with the HA-1.  I think the soundstage is very wide and the music is jsut flowing. the base is defined as well as the terrific mid-range.




Excellent news.
I'm waiting to try the HA-1 with both HD800 and LCD-X. Wondering how much different in SQ compared to my WA7 if running balanced from HA-1.
The Nordost Heimdall 2 cable is also in my radar. Already message Nordost through their FB page on the availability of this gorgeous looking cable.


----------



## Mortalcoil

alrainbow said:


> That me on the right. I did have alambo that was son in the pic . It was few years back though a lease .
> That is the only pic I had of the car. I never tale pics of any cars or things I have . Only a few I have posted here to tell,you the truth.
> I will,post it as soon as I can find it .
> You have a good memory , bill collector ?
> Al


 
  
  
 Al you look like Miles Davis .... spitting image


----------



## punit

alrainbow said:


> That me on the right. I did have alambo that was son in the pic . It was few years back though a lease .
> That is the only pic I had of the car. I never tale pics of any cars or things I have . Only a few I have posted here to tell,you the truth.
> I will,post it as soon as I can find it .
> You have a good memory , bill collector ?
> Al


 
  
  


mortalcoil said:


> Al you look like Miles Davis .... spitting image


 

 I think Al means he's on the left.


----------



## akhyar

punit said:


> I think Al means he's on the left.




If that's the case, he looks like Kenny G 

Sorry Al, can't help it


----------



## Mortalcoil

LOL ....  all in good fun.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yes i get that a lot and thanks guys for going with it. Input that pic up a lot and you would be surprised hiw most do not either of them . I am just an old er white guy. Anyway do you see hiw pissed off miles looks as the photog takes a pic ? 
Al


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> Yes i get that a lot and thanks guys for going with it. Input that pic up a lot and you would be surprised hiw most do not either of them . I am just an old er white guy. Anyway do you see hiw pissed off miles looks as the photog takes a pic ?
> Al


 
 Miles had this way of always looking pissed off.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I guess , it was he cool,way hahaha. I have read a little about him that he did not like to talk or interview . And would curse people if that asked him questions. Not sure if any of it is true though .
Al


----------



## icebear

alrainbow said:


> I guess , it was he cool,way hahaha. I have read a little about him that he did not like to talk or interview . And would curse people if that asked him questions. Not sure if any of it is true though .
> Al


 

 I guess, that is part of being a genius and keeping yourself protected at the same time.
 He had more than his "fair share" of racial bias and encounters with police that he supposedly had stolen his "master's car".
 I better don't want to know how many times he heard the n-word.
 I just recently bought a couple of his CD's. I did see him live once at the beginning of the 90's must have been his last tour ... sadly.


----------



## pearljam50000

Is it possible to enjoy the HD800 with rigs costing less than 1000$(more around 500$-600$), or is it a waste of time? how much in % am i going to sacrifice?


----------



## kkcc

pearljam50000 said:


> Is it possible to enjoy the HD800 with rigs costing less than 1000$(more around 500$-600$), or is it a waste of time? how much in % am i going to sacrifice?




You don't really need to spend a fortune to enjoy hd800. 

Even my humble audio-gd nfb28 is just $680 and offers full balanced ess9018 DAC with dsd capability and a powerful amp section (1.2W @300ohm) that drives hd800 plenty well and give me very very good performance.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

pearljam50000 said:


> Is it possible to enjoy the HD800 with rigs costing less than 1000$(more around 500$-600$), or is it a waste of time? how much in % am i going to sacrifice?


 
  
 I think it depends on the person, personally.  I didn't like the HD800's until I went nuts on my amp/source and much preferred my HD600's with my Bottlehead Crack.  I think, for me, there are other less expensive headphones that can sound better than the HD800's with less expensive electronics.  That said, there are lot of people that love the HD800's out of pretty much anything, so it is all a matter of different ears liking different things.
  
 If you are willing/able to get a pair of pre-owned HD800's you can try them with minimal financial risk because you could sell them for basically what you paid.  That way you could see for yourself if you like them out of your gear.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

buying used is a good idea.
al


----------



## elvergun

pearljam50000 said:


> Is it possible to enjoy the HD800 with rigs costing less than 1000$(more around 500$-600$), or is it a waste of time? how much in % am i going to sacrifice?


 
  
 If you go to the sound science forum or\and talk to an objectivist, you will be told that you are going to sacrifice nothing.
  
  
 If you ask  a guy with a $3000+ rig, you will be told that you will sacrifice everything.
  
  
  
 Do some reading and come to your own conclusions (and use your ears whenever you can).  IMO, you will *NOT *be wasting your time with a $600 rig.


----------



## Canadian411

kkcc said:


> You don't really need to spend a fortune to enjoy hd800.
> 
> Even my humble audio-gd nfb28 is just $680 and offers full balanced ess9018 DAC with dsd capability and a powerful amp section (1.2W @300ohm) that drives hd800 plenty well and give me very very good performance.




This looks good. So cheap and has everthing that I need. Dsd, balanced out, 9018, dac and an amp!

Thks for the info!


----------



## Reactcore

Just received the hd800, did the authenticationcheck and it gave the number on the sticker.
The serial is in the 29xxx so that seems ok.
But when i weight it without the cables it should be 330 grams but its 366, i calibrated my weightscale and it seems correct, when i eg weight my mobile its the same as stated on the spec
Can some1 weight his/her hd800 to compare?


Ive measured the resistance and that says 317 and 319 ohms

The headband material is of the same material as the cups, its not velour as its on my hd600, and it has a strong foam like smell
I will send better pics later

Im just in doubt if its real..


----------



## ALRAINBOW

They look just like mine do. 
How do yet sound ??


----------



## kazsud

I highly doubt it could be knocked off that well


----------



## skeptic

traehekat said:


> What did you find lacking?
> 
> Assuming I can't avoid it, is there a better portable option?*EDIT* my fault... chord Hugo ha.


 
  
 If you want an excellent portable amp, you might take a look at an O2 + agdr booster board + dual lme4990 adaptor in the gain stage.  It is a drastic improvement in dc offset, current output, slew rate and presumably distortion over the stock O2 - the last is pending dScope measurements that JDS apparently just signed on to perform.  (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/headphone-systems/244473-o2-headamp-output-booster-pcb-19.html )
  
 I built it back when it was a pure diy project, but I gather you can now obtain completed boards at agdraudio.com.  Sounds really good for ss to my ears, although I still prefer my hd800's with a high end tube amp.  YMMV as always.


----------



## Reactcore

Hooked on my ak120 (without extra amp)i do hear more openess than the hd580 but i expected more well i just started listening its not crappy sounding, have to try with better recordings still


----------



## SleepyOne

reactcore said:


> The headband material is of the same material as the cups, its not velour as its on my hd600, and it has a strong foam like smell


 
  
 My HD800 is also in the 29xxx range (from an authorised dealer) and the headband material is certainly not velour but similar to the cups.
  
 Weight wise, think my one is also around similar weight.


----------



## bearFNF

reactcore said:


> Just received the hd800, did the authenticationcheck and it gave the number on the sticker.
> The serial is in the 29xxx so that seems ok.
> But when i weight it without the cables it should be 330 grams but its 366, i calibrated my weightscale and it seems correct, when i eg weight my mobile its the same as stated on the spec
> Can some1 weight his/her hd800 to compare?
> ...


 
 Mine weigh in at ~362g (.8lbs). Measured on a bathroom scale so take it with a grain of salt.
 Resistance through my Q French silk is 302/303 ohms
  
 Not sure this means much...if the serial number checked out on the site you should be good.
 Did you register at the same time to try to get your freq response plot?


----------



## Canadian411

Someone is going to say that the weight will contribute to the sound quality


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Hiw do they sound ? I cannot imagine them being fake. The cost to make them and the quantity of them being sold would make them not worth while. Relax and enjoy . Post how they sound and what us in the chain for us .
Al


----------



## Frank I

bearfnf said:


> Mine weigh in at ~362g (.8lbs). Measured on a bathroom scale so take it with a grain of salt.
> Resistance through my Q French silk is 302/303 ohms
> 
> Not sure this means much...if the serial number checked out on the site you should be good.
> Did you register at the same time to try to get your freq response plot?


 
 Bob you all set for DC? We got a big crew coming there. I think I am also going to Denver but to cover it.


----------



## bearFNF

frank i said:


> Bob you all set for DC? We got a big crew coming there. I think I am also going to Denver but to cover it.


 
 yep, all set. for both...


----------



## Liminal

reactcore said:


> Im just in doubt if its real..


 
  
 Yeah there's like a 0.00001% chance of those being fake IMO. The manufacturing tolerances to create this kind of technology are insane. There's no incentive for, what - a sweatshop audio factory? - to try to fake what would cost millions in R&D for a Germany company to produce. This is not feasible at all.
  
 Relax and enjoy your headphones.


----------



## kazsud

liminal said:


> Yeah there's like a 0.00001% chance of those being fake IMO. The manufacturing tolerances to create this kind of technology are insane. There's no incentive for, what - a sweatshop audio factory? - to try to fake what would cost millions in R&D for a Germany company to produce. This is not feasible at all.
> 
> Relax and enjoy your headphones.




+1


----------



## Frank I

bearfnf said:


> yep, all set. for both...


 
 Cool so we can hang out in both places but I think I may be covering Denver and some of DC as well with Michael


----------



## Mortalcoil

Reactore, your HD-800's are most definitely the real deal.
  
 As mentioned in other posts before mine there would be no point in manufacturing a counterfeit HD-800 due to cost restrictions,  manufacturing processes and all that.
  
 Besides,  I heard that the heavier versions of the HD-800 provide a richer bass and do sound better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  ( I joke )


----------



## 62ohm

So now my Beyers T1 is officially in selling stage. After a month with it, I finally decided to sell it and focus on upgrading my HD800 rig. Upon purchase I thought I made a good decision by getting it as a complementary can to the HD800, but day after day it became more and more obvious that it was only a buyer's vindication and the HD800 is the better phones, both preference-end and technicality-end. 
  
 Time for a new amp I guess


----------



## HPiper

62ohm said:


> So now my Beyers T1 is officially in selling stage. After a month with it, I finally decided to sell it and focus on upgrading my HD800 rig. Upon purchase I thought I made a good decision by getting it as a complementary can to the HD800, but day after day it became more and more obvious that it was only a buyer's vindication and the HD800 is the better phones, both preference-end and technicality-end.
> 
> Time for a new amp I guess


 

 If it makes you feel any better I did the same thing you did and came to the exact same conclusion. Just build the best HD800 system I can and stop buying anything else that doesn't contribute to that.


----------



## 62ohm

hpiper said:


> *If it makes you feel any better I did the same thing you did and came to the exact same conclusion.* Just build the best HD800 system I can and stop buying anything else that doesn't contribute to that.


 
  
 It did actually, good to know I'm not the only one to make the (mistake?)


----------



## Sorrodje

Very interesting to read your testimony mates. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm currently thinking about purchasing a T1 too. I really don't want to replace my HD800 but I would like to try seriously the Beyerdynamic Flagship. The only quest that interested me during last month is to get the best result with the HD800. Just like you.  For the music I listen to, the HD800 stays the most valuable tool I've ever met. I've listened to an Abyss and undoubtly it outperforms the HD800. But the price and the form factor are dealbreakers for me.
  
 I own my HD800 for ten month now and i'm listening music with it many hours per day. I sold my other headphones, just keeping my beloved Ultrasone Sig pro for travels or when I need isolation at home.
  
 Maybe I could improve something in my system but so far, i'm happy with the Metrum + Sonett 2 combo so I think I should spend big bucks to expect very small improvements . With more money and considering my musical tastes I think i would go to the Stax territory .
  
 the words "end game" are floating in my mind guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... At least for my main desktop system.


----------



## 62ohm

On a completely different subject, am I the only one who preferred the BHA-1 to the Taurus Mk.2 ? Listened to both at a local meet not long ago (thanks to @Revogamer) and I thought the BHA-1 sounded unbelievably sublime with the HD800. A bit too bright for my taste, but sublime nonetheless.


----------



## Priidik

62ohm said:


> On a completely different subject, am I the only one who preferred the BHA-1 to the Taurus Mk.2 ? Listened to both at a local meet not long ago (thanks to @Revogamer) and I thought the BHA-1 sounded unbelievably sublime with the HD800. A bit too bright for my taste, but sublime nonetheless.


 
 Interesting. How did the Auralic sound to you then?
 I'm currently trying to decide between these two and the HDVA600.


----------



## lin0003

I have 2 HD800s on me at the moment, one is a loaner. I liked it so much I bought a pair, my journey well and truly ends here for headphones. Best headphone I have ever heard, including the Abyss. 
  
 I need a better DAC though, that's my weak link right now.


----------



## whirlwind

Mine should be here tomorrow night.....hope I am home when delivery is made, because I have to sign for them.


----------



## Reactcore

bearfnf said:


> Mine weigh in at ~362g (.8lbs). Measured on a bathroom scale so take it with a grain of salt.
> Resistance through my Q French silk is 302/303 ohms
> 
> Not sure this means much...if the serial number checked out on the site you should be good.
> Did you register at the same time to try to get your freq response plot?




No the qr site gives no frequency graph i guess i have to ask elsewhere at sennheiser.. It also dont says its registered after i complete the diagnose steps


----------



## 62ohm

priidik said:


> Interesting. How did the Auralic sound to you then?
> I'm currently trying to decide between these two and the HDVA600.


 
  
 I'm not really confident in giving impressions as it was only a brief listening session in a crowded room, but to me the BHA-1 is the more transparent amp and while it is bright, the treble is silky smooth. The Taurus on the other hand, leans toward the warm side without being veiled at all. I find the Bryston to have a larger soundstage IMO, and the Auralic to have harder bass slam & more prominent mids.


----------



## Reactcore

mortalcoil said:


> Reactore, your HD-800's are most definitely the real deal.
> 
> As mentioned in other posts before mine there would be no point in manufacturing a counterfeit HD-800 due to cost restrictions,  manufacturing processes and all that.
> 
> Besides,  I heard that the heavier versions of the HD-800 provide a richer bass and do sound better    ( I joke )




Bass heavy you mean lol: ah no thats a sony term


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I can say after only two hours with the Hugo the dac and the amp is great paring with the hd800. I was shocked how good it sounded. It is a lot of money but so far a I think a good one stop shop for an dac and amp with the hd800. Mine is burning in at the Moment. But I did trie the hdvd800 as an amp with the Hugo and it was hard fast to admit the amp is that good. The only trivial comment I have thus far is the mid being a little forward. But maybe it's just me hearing it as no one has agreed or disagreed with me so far . 
Al


----------



## kkcc

alrainbow said:


> I can say after only two hours with the Hugo the dac and the amp is great paring with the hd800. I was shocked how good it sounded. It is a lot of money but so far a I think a good one stop shop for an dac and amp with the hd800. Mine is burning in at the Moment. But I did trie the hdvd800 as an amp with the Hugo and it was hard fast to admit the amp is that good. The only trivial comment I have thus far is the mid being a little forward. But maybe it's just me hearing it as no one has agreed or disagreed with me so far .
> Al




Al I am loving my hd800 straight out from my Hugo too, so much so I don't bother hooking it up with the wa22 most of the times these days! 

I think your impression of it being mid forward could be a result of the great imaging and resolution Hugo provided. For vocal tracks it made it very easy to pick out the vocal amongst the accompanying instruments and you seem to be able to listened to the very minute voice subtleties. Sometime these type of presentation would lead to an analytical or artificial feel but Hugo achieved the superb imaging/resolution while at the same time is very musical. I had been very impressed.


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> I can say after only two hours with the Hugo the dac and the amp is great paring with the hd800. I was shocked how good it sounded. It is a lot of money but so far a I think a good one stop shop for an dac and amp with the hd800. Mine is burning in at the Moment. But I did trie the hdvd800 as an amp with the Hugo and it was hard fast to admit the amp is that good. The only trivial comment I have thus far is the mid being a little forward. But maybe it's just me hearing it as no one has agreed or disagreed with me so far .
> Al


 
 Thanks Al !


----------



## Mortalcoil

reactcore said:


> No the qr site gives no frequency graph i guess i have to ask elsewhere at sennheiser.. It also dont says its registered after i complete the diagnose steps


 
  
  
 Try this link  http://en-de.sennheiser.com/service-support-services-register-your-product
  
 Fill out appropriate areas then tick box requesting frequency graph at bottom.


----------



## magiccabbage

62ohm said:


> So now my Beyers T1 is officially in selling stage. After a month with it, I finally decided to sell it and focus on upgrading my HD800 rig. Upon purchase I thought I made a good decision by getting it as a complementary can to the HD800, but day after day it became more and more obvious that it was only a buyer's vindication and the HD800 is the better phones, both preference-end and technicality-end.
> 
> Time for a new amp I guess


 
 I'm doing the very same thing - selling my WA2 this weekend the the T1 in July and concentrating on a rig for HD800. I'm going the DNA Stratus route.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I think your impression of it being mid forward could be a result of the great imaging and resolution Hugo provided. For vocal tracks it made it very easy to pick out the vocal amongst the accompanying instruments and you seem to be able to listened to the very minute voice subtleties. Sometime these type of presentation would lead to an analytical or artificial feel but Hugo achieved the superb imaging/resolution while at the same time is very musical. I had been very impressed.[/quote]

Here is my reasoning of my mid forward comment. When I played a few reference tracks I know very well the voices seemed a bit forward .
now when i used the hdvd800 in amp mode with SE in and BAL out to headphones hd800 it played as always. some of these tracks my msb does put the female vocals more forward than any other dac i own. i am noot saying any of this is right nor is my conclusion correct . but trying to get a handle on this device. whatever it is the device is very good 
and a kinda giant killer in a way . i do plan to do a comaprrison with the direct stream first and then lastly the msb now given all three dacs get firmware updates it will be interrsting to see what comes down the pipe from ps audio, msb and the chord. 
please reply as this is an open discussion and i would very much like to read comments.
al


----------



## Reactcore

whirlwind said:


> Mine should be here tomorrow night.....hope I am home when delivery is made, because I have to sign for them.




Lol i my case the postman signed it cause i wasnt home at the time and he left it in the bikeshed in my frontyard, the signature is just a straight line, i could deny i reveived something, nah im not like that


----------



## Reactcore

mortalcoil said:


> Try this link  http://en-de.sennheiser.com/service-support-services-register-your-product
> 
> Fill out appropriate areas then tick box requesting frequency graph at bottom.



Thx mc,
This should also be the way to get the 2 year warranty and another authenticity check


----------



## drdiem

reactcore said:


> Just received the hd800, did the authenticationcheck and it gave the number on the sticker.
> The serial is in the 29xxx so that seems ok.
> But when i weight it without the cables it should be 330 grams but its 366, i calibrated my weightscale and it seems correct, when i eg weight my mobile its the same as stated on the spec
> Can some1 weight his/her hd800 to compare?
> ...


 
  
 Hi Reactcore,
  
 Mine weight 368g without the cable so I think you're all good. I'm highly impressed with the sound of mine so I don't think it's the case that both ours can be fakes :-D
  
 Ian


----------



## Frank I

magiccabbage said:


> I'm doing the very same thing - selling my WA2 this weekend the the T1 in July and concentrating on a rig for HD800. I'm going the DNA Stratus route.


 
  Paddy you need to hear the Hugo Pm me when you ahve tme


----------



## 62ohm

Hey guys, quick question, out of these three which one do you guys think pairs the best with HD800?
  
 -Schiit Mjolnir
 -Violectric V200
 -Senns HDVA600


----------



## troymadison

i soooooooo wanna try this headphone but the hd650/hd580 i didnt like too much


----------



## sp3llv3xit

troymadison said:


> i soooooooo wanna try this headphone but the hd650/hd580 i didnt like too much


 


 Try it.  I dislike the HD650 so much I had to be suspended from another audio forum for dissing it too much.  The HD800, however, is a very different sounding Sennheiser.


----------



## punit

troymadison said:


> i soooooooo wanna try this headphone but the hd650/hd580 i didnt like too much


 

 That's like saying I wanna try the Nissan GTR but am reluctant after my experience with Nissan Sunny.


----------



## persona1138

Hey all,
  
 Any fellow Sennheiser HD800 + Amarra users here?  I'm wondering if anyone has tinkered at length with custom Sonic EQ profiles within Amarra.  (I mostly stick with the EQ set to off... Just playing around with it.)
  
 On a side note, some recent developments on my setup...
  
 So, I've got my HD800 along with the HDVD 800 amp, and JUST got the Sennheiser CH800S 4-pin balanced cable... Amazing!  I was using an ALO Green Line cable (with the 4-pin balanced attachment when plugged into my HDVD 800)... Definitely a decent cable - and I enjoy the flexibility of being able to swap out the ends for 1/4", 3.5", mini-XLR, or 4-pin XLR based on the device I'm connecting it to - but the CH800S when paired with the HDVD 800 is pretty bitchin'.  Tighter bass, a cleaner sound, I love it... Plus, it's a heck of a lot lighter than most third-party cables I've used.  And it matches my amp and the headphones, and I'm a stickler like that.
  
 Also, while this is better posted elsewhere, around New Years I got myself one of the Audeze LCD-XC's... A totally different beast than the HD800.  In fact, when I first bought my HD800, I chose it over the LCD-3's.  But I have to say... Audeze has really outdone themselves with the LCD-X's and LCD-XC's... And having a closed audiophile-grade headphone I can use in public is pretty rad.  Happy to give more impressions, but figured I'd keep my question and the majority of my post related to the HD800.
  
 Anyway, do yourself a favor if you've got the HD800 and check it out on both the HDVD 800 with the CH800S cable... Well worth the money to get (in my humble opinion) the best of what the HD800 can do.
  
 Happy listening~


----------



## lin0003

troymadison said:


> i soooooooo wanna try this headphone but the hd650/hd580 i didnt like too much


 
 I wasn't too much of a fan of the HD650, but the HD800 is truly spectacular.


----------



## whirlwind

My HD800 will arrive today..I also own the HD650, and I love it....it is dark & delicious


----------



## ALRAINBOW

The hd800 pairs very well with the hdvd600 or 800. The 800 having a dac as well. I own the 800. Regarding as amp only there is not much better to attain. I have played with many amps. By the way anyone considering the Hugo should be very happy with it as very good combo pairing for the hd800. 
al


----------



## Liminal

alrainbow said:


> The hd800 pairs very well with the hdvd600 or 800. The 800 having a dac as well. I own the 800. Regarding as amp only there is not much better to attain. I have played with many amps. By the way anyone considering the Hugo should be very happy with it as very good combo pairing for the hd800.
> al


 
  
 How would you compare the sound of a Woo Audio WA7 to the HDVD800 for USB from a computer?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Completely diffent animals for starters. The woo wa7 is nice amp and dac however it hides or glazes over the details in a nice way. The hdvd800 is very detailed and at first seems overly bright or detailed. So it's what you want as sound , analytical or more reserved easy listening. Also the notes are a little thin with the hdvd800 bit if you use a ap1 /pp it's improves it dramictslly . Ask me what you wish I owned both and still,have the hdvd800 
Al


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> Completely diffent animals for starters. The woo wa7 is nice amp and dac however it hides or glazes over the details in a nice way. The hdvd800 is very detailed and at first seems overly bright or detailed. So it's what you want as sound , analytical or more reserved easy listening. Also the notes are a little thin with the hdvd800 bit if you use a ap1 /pp it's improves it dramictslly . Ask me what you wish I owned both and still,have the hdvd800
> Al


 
  
 What is ap1/pp ? 
  
 thanks Al,


----------



## Canadian411

Sennheiser HDVD800 doesnt support DSD right ?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yes it does over USB DSD 128 and 64 
Al


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> Yes it does over USB DSD 128 and 64
> Al


 
 I went to their official website and nowhere says it can play dsd. Weird.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

It does i own it. Sennheiser is very large comapAny 
And the info they put out is inaccurate 
At times 
Al


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> It does i own it. Sennheiser is very large comapAny
> And the info they put out is inaccurate
> At times
> Al




I am deciding between

Oppo ha1 and hdvd800 and want to make sure it plays dsd 

Thanks Al!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Keep,this mind the amp in the hdvd800 is very good but the DAC is ok. As oppo ,s DAC might be better.
Al


----------



## lin0003

Just using the DacMagic actually doesn't sound bad. Lacking a bit of dynamics and punch, but still nice to listen to.


----------



## screwdriver

Ill be auditioning a sennheiser HD800 - should be here next week.  I currently own a LCD-x .
 This will be interesting .


----------



## ALRAINBOW

It will,be your ears and brain will be in for a evolution of new sounding media . The HD 800 is close to a stax 009. But does have more meat then the stax. Another can to hear is the he6. As it too is really good but needs a powerful amp to use with .
Al


----------



## MickeyVee

Would like to hear your impressions between the two.  The LCD-X is on the top of my audition/lust list.
 Quote:


screwdriver said:


> Ill be auditioning a sennheiser HD800 - should be here next week.  I currently own a LCD-x .
> This will be interesting .


----------



## magiccabbage

Any one here think the gungnir is a nice DAC pairing with HD800? - I would be using a tube amp with this combo - WA2 or DNA stratus.
  
  
 I was planing on getting a higher spec DAC but I don't wanna skip the rungs on the ladder. I think I will go for something in the 1000 dollar range so i can appreciate the upgrade when i eventually go for an end game DAC. I might see if I can audition a few around this price range. I would like something that looks nice under the DNA Stratus - I was looking at the gungnir because of the similarity in width. Is there anything else out there that is around 16 or 17" and sounds good?


----------



## screwdriver

alrainbow said:


> It will,be your ears and brain will be in for a evolution of new sounding media . The HD 800 is close to a stax 009. But does have more meat then the stax. Another can to hear is the he6. As it too is really good but needs a powerful amp to use with .
> Al


 
 i might also audition the HE=6 ,i just need to know how to hook it up to my sophia el34 amp thru the speaker out . anyone here that can help me with this?
  
 my gear :: oppo105 to play flac files and dsd files / nad m51 for flac files from oppo 105 --> decware csp2+ -->  alo studio six 
  
 the sophia el34 is being used in my speaker set up - it might work for the HE-6


----------



## screwdriver

mickeyvee said:


>


 
 ill pm you my impressions but it will be limited to my gear only of course .


----------



## kiwikaki

My rig


----------



## LugBug1

alrainbow said:


>


 
 Soz for reposting this guys but I'm catching up. 
  
 This is sooooo effin COOL!! Al and Miles!
  
 Miles looks like he's taking a leak and Al as stopped him for a photo ha 
  
 Classic.


----------



## 62ohm

alrainbow said:


> Completely diffent animals for starters. The woo wa7 is nice amp and dac however it hides or glazes over the details in a nice way. The hdvd800 is very detailed and at first seems overly bright or detailed. So it's what you want as sound , analytical or more reserved easy listening. Also the notes are a little thin with the hdvd800 bit if you use a ap1 /pp it's improves it dramictslly . Ask me what you wish I owned both and still,have the hdvd800
> Al


 
  
 I like the Senn amp very much, but the problem is I kept feeling like the BHA-1 is actually the more detailed amp. I know it's a bright amp, but it seems that I have no problem with bright sound sig. The Mjolnir, being a much cheaper alternative, intrigues me.
  


62ohm said:


> Hey guys, quick question, out of these three which one do you guys think pairs the best with HD800?
> 
> -Schiit Mjolnir
> -Violectric V200
> -Senns HDVA600


 
  
 Anyone else?


----------



## whirlwind

Got mine today....looks like an all nighter


----------



## kazsud

whirlwind said:


> Got mine today....looks like an all nighter




Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## Canadian411

whirlwind said:


> Got mine today....looks like an all nighter




Congrats!! Beautiful pictures!


----------



## OldSkool

@ whirlwind


----------



## LugBug1

Congrats whirlwind! Look forward to some impressions, especially compared to the RS1 with the Mad Ear.  I personally find Grado's to be a nice change and compliment to the Senn's.


----------



## Sorrodje

@whirlwind : Congrats & enjoy


----------



## Mortalcoil

whirlwind said:


> Got mine today....looks like an all nighter


 
 Congrtas whirlwind.
  
 Let us know how the Mapletree and HD-800 play together.
  
 Should be interesting to see if a Grado lovers amp works well with the new kid on the block.


----------



## elvergun

kiwikaki said:


> My rig


 
  
 Very Nice!!!


----------



## kugino

mortalcoil said:


> Congrtas whirlwind.
> 
> Let us know how the Mapletree and HD-800 play together.
> 
> Should be interesting to see if a Grado lovers amp works well with the new kid on the block.


I was thinking the same thing! Many like tubes for the hd800 so this might be a good match.


----------



## whirlwind

Well, I have listened to 3 albums, one of them twice.
  
 The thing that most jumped out at me was the huge flipping soundstage....very wide...and the imaging of these cans.
  
 I was a freshman in high school when pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon was released.....that was 1973!
  
 I have heard this album so many times and on so many different systems it is not funny....not sure how many systems...but I bet I have listed to the album/cd 500 times in my life time.
  
 I have never heard it sound so flipping good.....totally incredible and such a fun, fun time and pleasure to hear it sound this way....even if it did take 41 years 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I listened to it twice and could listen to it again .
  
 I also have listened to Joe Bonamassa - An Acoustic Evening At The Vienna Opera House....who would have thunk the the wash board and spoons played by Lenny Castro could sound so nice.....some great detail retrival was evident on this album.
  
 As far as  the Mad Ear goes.....it is a rock solid amp and it has stood the test of time, for sure....not a FOTM amp. I am sure there are better amps for the HD800....but the Mad is far from a slouch.
  
 It is dead quiet and rolling tubes is not as expensive as a lot of other amps.
  
 The good Dr. Peppard designed this amp for his HD650....so why not the HD800  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I will be back with more impressions after I listen some more.
  
 Also these are the heaviest cans that I have ever worn...they are very comfortable, not too much clamp pressure at all......just a tad heavy....but hopefully it wont make my listening sessions too short.


----------



## MickeyVee

^^ Nice impressions, thanks.  We're about the same age and I can't tell you how many copies of DSOM I've had in different media formats.. everything except 8-track 
 Tubes and HD800 are a stunning combo.  Enjoy!!


----------



## Mortalcoil

whirlwind said:


> Well, I have listened to 3 albums, one of them twice.
> 
> The thing that most jumped out at me was the huge flipping soundstage....very wide...and the imaging of these cans.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Looks like your really enjoying the HD-800 .....good stuff.
  
 Nice to hear that the MAD is a good fit.


----------



## lin0003

Having fun comparing 2 HD800s I have on hand now. One has a serial of 25XXX while the other is 10XXX with the Anax 2.0 mod.


----------



## maguire

Hey Lin, what's the Anax 2.0 mod?


----------



## lin0003

maguire said:


> Hey Lin, what's the Anax 2.0 mod?


 
 It tames the highs and makes it less fatiguing. My new pair has no treble issues and I actually like it more than the modded one.


----------



## maguire

OK thanks.


----------



## lin0003

maguire said:


> OK thanks.


 
 Do you have a HD800?


----------



## Canadian411

lin0003 said:


> It tames the highs and makes it less fatiguing. My new pair has no treble issues and I actually like it more than the modded one.




Are u saying that the older hd800 (w/o the mod) is different than the newer pair in terms of treble area?


----------



## lin0003

canadian411 said:


> Are u saying that the older hd800 (w/o the mod) is different than the newer pair in terms of treble area?


 
 I'm not sure, I didn't open them up and remove the mod because it is not mine.


----------



## Zoom25

Is it worth having the HD650 if you have the HD800. The HD650 intrigue me for their relaxed sound. The best relaxed sound I've enjoyed so far was the LCD-2.2. The only thing I could complain about the LCD-2 was the weight and comfort. Will the HD650 be able to keep up for relaxed purposes?


----------



## whirlwind

zoom25 said:


> Is it worth having the HD650 if you have the HD800. The HD650 intrigue me for their relaxed sound. The best relaxed sound I've enjoyed so far was the LCD-2.2. The only thing I could complain about the LCD-2 was the weight and comfort. Will the HD650 be able to keep up for relaxed purposes?


 

 I am wondering the same thing.....I am undecided at this point.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

zoom25 said:


> Is it worth having the HD650 if you have the HD800. The HD650 intrigue me for their relaxed sound. The best relaxed sound I've enjoyed so far was the LCD-2.2. The only thing I could complain about the LCD-2 was the weight and comfort. Will the HD650 be able to keep up for relaxed purposes?


 
  
 I think so.  I love my HD800's but they are ruthlessly unforgiving.  For well recorded music, I feel they are hard to beat.  But sometimes, I want to kick back, listen to some 128kbps MP3's and not be distracted by the quality.  My HD600's are amazing for that - I would imagine that the HD650 would fit the bill just as well.


----------



## kkcc

lin0003 said:


> It tames the highs and makes it less fatiguing. My new pair has no treble issues and I actually like it more than the modded one.


 
  
 I am currently using one with serial 22xxx and I also feel the treble is a lot more controlled than earlier ones I had/demoed (around 11-13xxx).


----------



## Zoom25

whirlwind said:


> I am wondering the same thing.....I am undecided at this point.


 
 I am also looking for comfort. If LCD-2 was more comfortable, I'd have kept it and not looked around for a relaxed phone. The LCD-2 was the least fatiguing while having some of the best mids out there and sense of attack. Laid back on the ears, yet still so full of energy and able to rock on without the music sounding boring.


----------



## Zoom25

bigfatpaulie said:


> I think so.  I love my HD800's but they are ruthlessly unforgiving.  For well recorded music, I feel they are hard to beat.  But sometimes, I want to kick back, listen to some 128kbps MP3's and not be distracted by the quality.  My HD600's are amazing for that - I would imagine that the HD650 would fit the bill just as well.


 
 I really wanted to audition them at the meet, but the HD800 sucked up all my time. Still have to hear them. Also, apparently there are silver and black drivers out there. If I do get a HD650, it's no doubt going to be used. No way I will pay 500 for them new when HE-400i are about to come out or used HE-500s. I'm guessing that the new silver drivers are the ones to go for.


----------



## pearljam50000

zoom25 said:


> Is it worth having the HD650 if you have the HD800. The HD650 intrigue me for their relaxed sound. The best relaxed sound I've enjoyed so far was the LCD-2.2. The only thing I could complain about the LCD-2 was the weight and comfort. Will the HD650 be able to keep up for relaxed purposes?


 
 When you have the HD800 you don't need any other headphones....


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> When you have the HD800 you don't need any other headphones....


 
  
 Not for when you want to fall asleep. I actually prefer closed headphones when going to sleep. Not only do they isolate better, but also you have to focus less with them when trying to fall asleep. Less diffused sound for those purposes. Although for when you want the best performance, I'll agree that the HD800 is all you need. Maybe, it's just me.


----------



## maguire

lin0003 said:


> Do you have a HD800?


 
 No I dont mate, but i have always admired them.


----------



## Jodet

62ohm said:


> Hey guys, quick question, out of these three which one do you guys think pairs the best with HD800?
> 
> -Schiit Mjolnir
> -Violectric V200
> -Senns HDVA600


 
  
 I'm using my HD800's with the V200.   It's an excellent combination.    I also have a Sound Quest SQ84-V2 tube amp which is a little more 'magic' in the midrange, but not quite the bass the V200 has.   They both sound great.


----------



## nephilim32

Well, I'm a proud owner of the HD 800's and I have them paired with my ARCAM DAC and Harman Kardon Avr 130 receiver and I feel this is a lights out pairing and I can't do much better, although it is possible that my HD's might benefit from a dedicated amp like a burson soloist SL, since my Avr receiver is just an Op-Amp. Possible slight signal distortion but I really can't imagine my set up getting better. Help here is always welcome. Anyhow the HD 800's changed my life and the way I look and hear audio in general. It kind of sucks now cause about 90% of headphones out there don't have half the dynamics as the HD's so a lot of cans sound like rubbish. I'm spoiled rotten now!! Lol!


----------



## Maxvla

Yes, HD800s have soured me on almost all other headphones since I got them.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Soured ??


----------



## MickeyVee

I actually use the vModa XS to fall asleep to and the Grado RS1i when I'm lying back in my recliner.  Quite nice. Nothing like the HD800 for a serious listening session.
 Quote:


zoom25 said:


> Not for when you want to fall asleep. I actually prefer closed headphones when going to sleep. Not only do they isolate better, but also you have to focus less with them when trying to fall asleep. Less diffused sound for those purposes. Although for when you want the best performance, I'll agree that the HD800 is all you need. Maybe, it's just me.


----------



## kugino

maxvla said:


> Yes, HD800s have soured me on almost all other headphones since I got them.


 
  
  


alrainbow said:


> Soured ??


 
 yeah, i know what you mean. i picked up the he-500 around the same time i got my hd800...and after listening to the hd800, i couldn't listen to the he500 anymore. not that they're bad headphones at all...in fact, i like the midrange on the he500 more than the hd800. but the hd800 is so much better in every other area.  the only other headphone i listen to without any "sourness" is my d7000. i think they're fantastic, even with the hd800 in the stable. i have a pair of th900 coming in this week...we'll see how they compare.


----------



## pearljam50000

I'm thinking of buying a used pair, but, it will be of a lower serial number(1.5 years old), and since so many claim newer serial numbers sound much better, i'm not so sure about that anymore! Can anyone help me decide?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I go from CIEMS. To headphones. 
It's horrible as great as CIEMS are. The hd800 just blows it up. 
Al


----------



## nephilim32

It's 





kugino said:


> yeah, i know what you mean. i picked up the he-500 around the same time i got my hd800...and after listening to the hd800, i couldn't listen to the he500 anymore. not that they're bad headphones at all...in fact, i like the midrange on the he500 more than the hd800. but the hd800 is so much better in every other area.  the only other headphone i listen to without any "sourness" is my d7000. i think they're fantastic, even with the hd800 in the stable. i have a pair of th900 coming in this week...we'll see how they compare.



It's true. I can't wait to test out the LCD's by AUDEZE or even the tesla 1's by BD. I'm sure they give the senns a good run for their money, but probably not for overall dynamics. HD 800's are the best cans at recreating a live soundstage.


----------



## nephilim32

I use the 

I use the v-moda crossfades lp 80's for traveling around via subway. Great mid range and bass but that is it! They have 54mm drivers in them as well. Biggest in their class. 
Falling asleep? Ear buds are the way to go. That way you can lie on your side as well. . One day I'd love to get a pair of the latest SHURE offerings. 1000$ earbuds! Wow.


----------



## Chodi

pearljam50000 said:


> I'm thinking of buying a used pair, but, it will be of a lower serial number(1.5 years old), and since so many claim newer serial numbers sound much better, i'm not so sure about that anymore! Can anyone help me decide?


 
 I don't know where you are getting this but it has been stated many times that there is no difference except for normal manufacturing variation. My pair are a little over a year old and they sound exactly the same as the new ones in the dealers showroom when I audition equipment. Several trusted members have owned more than one pair over time and said their is little to no difference.


----------



## palmfish

Ive been on the road a lot the past 6 weeks and spending most of my head-time listening to spotify from my iPad with my Grado SR60i. It is a really good-sounding setup that I have been enjoying very much - to the point that I started thinking I might not need anything more. I started thinking about maybe leaving the head-fi fold and selling my HD 800, BH Crack, and Asus E1.
  
 Well, I got home yesterday and today decided to spend some time with my HD 800. I even listened back-to-back with my Grado's to hear what I might be missing if I decide to sell... and I came to the conclusion that I cannot part with my HD 800. They just sound so good - there is simply no comparison with the Grado's (or any other headphone for that matter).
  
 It's easy to forget when you've been away for a while but they are just so good. I have been using my Pioneer AVR as a headphone amp for a while and it serves me well thanks to the tone controls (I add 6 dB of treble boost to compensate for my hearing loss). I may still sell the Crack and Essence One but I haven't decided yet because the Crack looks so pretty with that big CBS Hytron tube -  I might keep it just for decoration!


----------



## soundeffect

kugino said:


> yeah, i know what you mean. i picked up the he-500 around the same time i got my hd800...and after listening to the hd800, i couldn't listen to the he500 anymore. not that they're bad headphones at all...in fact, i like the midrange on the he500 more than the hd800. but the hd800 is so much better in every other area.  the only other headphone i listen to without any "sourness" is my d7000. i think they're fantastic, even with the hd800 in the stable. i have a pair of th900 coming in this week...we'll see how they compare.




+1 , after the hd800 I'm about to sell the he500 and a few more of the other headphones I currently have. For me, I didn't understand the big deal with the weight and comfort with the he500 until I have the hd800. It's a big difference in comfort wise. I'm planning to only keep the hd598 as my travel/quick headphones that I don't have to be careful with. I can't wait until I get my upgrade amp to replace the lyr to further improve on it.


----------



## nephilim32

So awesome. Li





palmfish said:


> Ive been on the road a lot the past 6 weeks and spending most of my head-time listening to spotify from my iPad with my Grado SR60i. It is a really good-sounding setup that I have been enjoying very much - to the point that I started thinking I might not need anything more. I started thinking about maybe leaving the head-fi fold and selling my HD 800, BH Crack, and Asus E1.
> 
> Well, I got home yesterday and today decided to spend some time with my HD 800. I even listened back-to-back with my Grado's to hear what I might be missing if I decide to sell... and I came to the conclusion that I cannot part with my HD 800. They just sound so good - there is simply no comparison with the Grado's (or any other headphone for that matter).
> 
> It's easy to forget when you've been away for a while but they are just so good. I have been using my Pioneer AVR as a headphone amp for a while and it serves me well thanks to the tone controls (I add 6 dB of treble boost to compensate for my hearing loss). I may still sell the Crack and Essence One but I haven't decided yet because the Crack looks so pretty with that big CBS Hytron tube -  I might keep it just for decoration!




So awesome. Love to hear that the senns have had a long lasting impression on you. Yeah? How could you part with such a beast? Don't sell them! 
Also. Love the picture of the warm tube amp. I am really excited cause I've decided to purchase the WOO AUDIO WA6E warm tube amp. I cannot wait to hear that sheer warm analog sound paired with my ARCAM DAC and HD 800's of course. I will not have to upgrade for a very long time.


----------



## NotaLefty

kugino said:


> yeah, i know what you mean. i picked up the he-500 around the same time i got my hd800...and after listening to the hd800, i couldn't listen to the he500 anymore. not that they're bad headphones at all...in fact, i like the midrange on the he500 more than the hd800. but the hd800 is so much better in every other area.  the only other headphone i listen to without any "sourness" is my d7000. i think they're fantastic, even with the hd800 in the stable. i have a pair of th900 coming in this week...we'll see how they compare.


 
 The TH900's really give the HD800's a run for their money, good luck!


----------



## Rossliew

pearljam50000 said:


> How is the HD800 with Metal?




They work great with metal. I listen to metal 90% of the time and these cans never fail. I pair it with the Little Dot Mk3 otl amp running some 6sn7 as power tubes and some voshkod 6ZH1-P/6hm5 as driver tubes. Strong and punchy bass. Not a sibilant moment unless the recording is as such.


----------



## pearljam50000

That's nice to hear.
What's even nicer is that you are using them with a 300$ amp, because from i read here there's no point having the HD800 without a 1000$ amp and 1000$ DAC.


----------



## Canadian411

kugino said:


> yeah, i know what you mean. i picked up the he-500 around the same time i got my hd800...and after listening to the hd800, i couldn't listen to the he500 anymore. not that they're bad headphones at all...in fact, i like the midrange on the he500 more than the hd800. but the hd800 is so much better in every other area.  the only other headphone i listen to without any "sourness" is my d7000. i think they're fantastic, even with the hd800 in the stable. i have a pair of th900 coming in this week...we'll see how they compare.




Between th900 and hd800, Th900 gets most of my ear time.


----------



## jsgraha

canadian411 said:


> Between th900 and hd800, Th900 gets most of my ear time.




I'm the other way around 
I sold th900 since hardly using it anymore.
Too many hours spend on hd800...


----------



## Canadian411

jsgraha said:


> I'm the other way around
> I sold th900 since hardly using it anymore.
> Too many hours spend on hd800...





I still love hd800. Both are perfect for me.


----------



## kkcc

pearljam50000 said:


> That's nice to hear.
> What's even nicer is that you are using them with a 300$ amp, because from i read here there's no point having the HD800 without a 1000$ amp and 1000$ DAC.


 
  
 Don't really know where the $1000 DAC or AMP myth came from.  Yes, HD800 scale well with better upstream components, but no it doesn't NEED them to sound good.
  
 For DAC / Solid state amp you get ample choices from Audio-gd, and tube from Little Dot that will let you enjoy HD800 for a long time.


----------



## Rossliew

kkcc said:


> Don't really know where the $1000 DAC or AMP myth came from.  Yes, HD800 scale well with better upstream components, but no it doesn't NEED them to sound good.
> 
> For DAC / Solid state amp you get ample choices from Audio-gd, and tube from Little Dot that will let you enjoy HD800 for a long time.


 
 Agreed but as with all hobbies, there is that insatiable lust to upgrade as curiosity usually gets the better of us. It all boils down to individual choice and listening requirements. For me, the $300 amp is more than sufficient but if money permits, i would gladly plonk down the dough for a Liquid Glass/Gold or a DNA Stratus or something equally exotic.


----------



## Mahdi8

+1 for me a 2 years old Audio gd nfb2 + Bottlehead crack with speedball is running the HD800 beautifully the DAC Amp combo cost me $700


kkcc said:


> Don't really know where the $1000 DAC or AMP myth came from.  Yes, HD800 scale well with better upstream components, but no it doesn't NEED them to sound good.
> 
> For DAC / Solid state amp you get ample choices from Audio-gd, and tube from Little Dot that will let you enjoy HD800 for a long time.


----------



## Maxvla

pearljam50000 said:


> That's nice to hear.
> What's even nicer is that you are using them with a 300$ amp, because from i read here there's no point having the HD800 without a 1000$ amp and 1000$ DAC.



That isn't true. I have personally told you a couple combinations of inexpensive DACs/amps that work well with HD800s until you can save up for the high end.


----------



## NotaLefty

I got my HD800's yesterday after attending my first meet. Any cheap amp recommendations for a broke student?


----------



## Maxvla

Matrix M-Stage HPA-2 w/USB DAC, Schiit Modi + Vali are both well proven inexpensive combos for HD800s. There are others, surely, but these are the most popular.


----------



## NotaLefty

Would it be better to get a cheaper amp and dac rather than just an amp for the price of the cheap amp/dac?


----------



## traehekat

How well would the Valhalla drive the HD800's?


----------



## Maxvla

notalefty said:


> Would it be better to get a cheaper amp and dac rather than just an amp for the price of the cheap amp/dac?



Assuming you have no DAC other than your computer or a portable digital audio player/phone or cd/dvd/bluray, you would do well to get a DAC also. Both options I mentioned above include DAC and amp.


----------



## James-uk

notalefty said:


> I got my HD800's yesterday after attending my first meet. Any cheap amp recommendations for a broke student?




O2 /odac combo. As good as it 'technically ' gets at a very reasonable price. Beers and popcorn at the ready


----------



## drdiem

notalefty said:


> I got my HD800's yesterday after attending my first meet. Any cheap amp recommendations for a broke student?


 
 I'm using the HD800 with the Matrix m-Stage - about $250. This is a rip-off faithful copy of the Lehmann Black Cube - the 800 Euro amp that Sennheiser used when first demoing the HD800.


----------



## kvtaco17

drdiem said:


> I'm using the HD800 with the Matrix m-Stage - about $250. This is a rip-off faithful copy of the Lehmann Black Cube - the 800 Euro amp that Sennheiser used when first demoing the HD800.


 

 This.... the o2 is an eh at best...


----------



## drdiem

screwdriver said:


> Ill be auditioning a sennheiser HD800 - should be here next week.  I currently own a LCD-x .
> This will be interesting .


 
  
 I'd love to hear your impressions of the comparison too! My only regret when going for the HD800 was that I couldn't arrange an A/B test with the high end Audeze 'phones.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

There is no regret to have if you want the details they are the one. Your done. 
Al


----------



## drdiem

Hi lin0003,
  
 Are you planning to make a ful post with your impressions? I've just bought my HD800 and a bunch of materials to make mods, but would be keen to know what you think being able to A/B directly.
  
 Cheers,
  
 Ian
  
 Quote:


lin0003 said:


> Having fun comparing 2 HD800s I have on hand now. One has a serial of 25XXX while the other is 10XXX with the Anax 2.0 mod.


----------



## drdiem

alrainbow said:


> There is no regret to have if you want the details they are the one. Your done.
> Al


 
 Thanks Al,
  
 Yeah I think I fall on the detail side of the 'detail VS smoothness' fence (if I can pretend for a minute that such a simple fence exists!). Still and all, if the LCD-X was good _enough_ I might have been swayed.
  
 I was reading what others were saying just now about how the HD800 soured them to any other 'phone, and I must say that definitely happened to me with my HD650. I used to think they were fantastic, but now whenever I put them on I just notice what I'm missing!
  
 Ian


----------



## ALRAINBOW

This hobby drives us crazy ,enjoy the bliss as long as you can. 
Al


----------



## lin0003

drdiem said:


>


 
 Sure, but the two HD800s have very different serial numbers so that can affect the sound as well.


----------



## kazsud

lin0003 said:


> Sure, but the two HD800s have very different serial numbers so that can affect the sound as well.




Lol


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I have had one witha SER number in the 10 k , 15 k and a twenty k. I could not hear anything. The drivers inside have a serial number so the pair is matched . So I would think if they wen through the trouble of doing this over all the headphones must all sound the same . Enjoy them modded or not .
Al


----------



## screwdriver

drdiem said:


> I'd love to hear your impressions of the comparison too! My only regret when going for the HD800 was that I couldn't arrange an A/B test with the high end Audeze 'phones.


 
 ill  pm you bro . 
 i have the alo studio six amp which has 4 headphone out  so i can hook up both phones and switch but im sue i have to adjust volume  to get them at the same level.
  
 i used to own the hd650 paired with a singlepower mpx3 tube amp , that was a long long time ago and the pairing was awesome back then - i left headfi and kept the combo til 2014 january where i bought a lcd3 - it thrashed the hd650 in every way .
 from the lcd-3 i went to lcdx because i want more upper end , the lcd3 was too dark for me ./


----------



## Dionysus

I am really enjoying the sound from the PerfectWave DAC, it is extremely detailed and a better sounding DAC than the one built into the HDVD800. But if you want a portable all in one solution it's a killer amp and the best sounding AMPLIFIER when paired with the HD800 IMHO. 
If you get an opportunity to listen to it at a local shop do yourself a favor. I just added an iMac to my setup and have now finished my listening station. I think this will be my end game for a long time.


----------



## lin0003

Do you think the amp of the PerfectWave DAC is better than the HDVD800?


----------



## Dionysus

The Perfectwave DAC does not have an amp, it's a straight DAC only.


----------



## lin0003

dionysus said:


> The Perfectwave DAC does not have an amp, it's a straight DAC only.


 
 Oh, sorry, not sure what I was thinking. Is the DAC in the HDVD800 really as bad as people say it is?


----------



## Dionysus

It's a good DAC, but the amp is really the star. Sennheiser voiced the HD800 with the amps in the HDVD800 and HDVA600. I purchase the HDVD800 and an enjoyed it very much, but I was offered the PS Audio Perfectwave at a steal of a price and purchased it after an opportunity to audition it first , once I heard it pair with the HDVD800 it was audio bliss.


----------



## lin0003

For those who are interested, here is my comparison of the Anax 2.0 modded HD800 (SN 10XXX) to a pair of stock HD800s (SN 25XXX). Note that no measurements were used, I'm more of a hearing person and not a measurements person. 
  
 The bass packs a little more punch on the Anax modded one as I expected, but don't expect day and night differences, it's really quite small and hardly makes a difference in most songs. The HD800 has very neutral bass and which one you prefer will obviously depend on how much bass you prefer. Personally, in terms of bass, I like the Anax modded HD800 just a bit more than the stock, but it's a close call. 
  
 The midrange is pulled forward a just a little bit from the stock and it sounds a little more intimate and less far out compared to the stock. I actually think that the stock mids are a little clearer and are a tad bit clearer. From what I hear, the upper midrange is slightly pulled back from the very neutral mids of the stock. Personally I love the HD800's mids and I would not change anything about them, so this has to go to the stock. 
  
 The treble is the main reason why the Anax mod was created for the HD800. Although I can see why people say the HD800 is somewhat bright, I have never considered them really bright. The treble is a little elevated, but the new HD800 that I have actually has just about the perfect treble balance. I honestly would not change anything about it. The modded HD800's treble is tuned down a few DB and actually reminds me of a slightly brighter HD600. I'm not a fan of the mod here. 
  
 The soundstage and imaging is also affected a little by the mod. I feel like the soundstage width comes in a little bit, which can be both good and bad depending on your preference. I love the large soundstage the HD800 provides, but sometimes it can be a bit unrealistically wide. Imaging is ever so slightly better on the stock. 
  
 Detail isn't really affected by the mod, but the treble is tuned down, so details in the higher frequencies will obviously not be as obvious. 
  
 To sum it off, I can see why people like the Anax mod, but personally I like the stock more. I am somewhat a treblehead, so take that into account. A little more bass from the stock HD800 and that would be my dream headphone. 
  
 Oh, and I'm not sure whether this is from the drives or the mod, but the older, modded HD800 seems to be a smidgen louder than the newer one. It's probably just slight driver variations rather than the mod.


----------



## purplegoat

how does everyone feel about using the HD800 with electronic music? thanks


----------



## lin0003

purplegoat said:


> how does everyone feel about using the HD800 with electronic music? thanks


 
 Not bad, but not great either. 
  
 BTW do you guys think that the HD800 makes almost every other headphone or IEM sound really lacking?


----------



## punit

purplegoat said:


> how does everyone feel about using the HD800 with electronic music? thanks


 

 I mostly listen to Trance & Love them.


----------



## jsgraha

punit said:


> I mostly listen to Trance & Love them.




Is that using Master 9?

For me, I can't find any genre which HD800 not excel


----------



## purplegoat

awesome glad to hear it guys!


----------



## punit

jsgraha said:


> Is that using Master 9?
> 
> For me, I can't find any genre which HD800 not excel


 

 Sounds good with M9 but I prefer them more with WA22. Slightly better soundstage & sounds more natural . (I know, the fact that Trance, which is mostly computer produced music sounds more natural is an oxymoron but there you have it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## jsgraha

purplegoat said:


> awesome glad to hear it guys!


 
  
 It still always best to try it before committing though (at meet or shop demo).
 This phone is picky with amp, source and transport.
 Something like LCD-X is easier.


----------



## pearljam50000

After listening to the HD800 you can't listen to any other headphones, for me it's the realism of the sound that is the most important thing, it's mind blowing.
With other other headphones you feel like listening to recorded music, with HD800 it's like you are hearing just the sound, it's just there... it's hard to explain.


----------



## 62ohm

pearljam50000 said:


> After listening to the HD800 you can't listen to any other headphones, for me it's the realism of the sound that is the most important thing, it's mind blowing.
> With other other headphones you feel like listening to recorded music, with HD800 it's like you are hearing just the sound, it's just there... it's hard to explain.


 
  
 Are you talking about transparency?


----------



## pearljam50000

Partly yes (;


----------



## whirlwind

Since getting these cans, I have rediscovered my Pink Floyd library....and it has never sounded this good


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Plus 1 on the hdvd800. I own one the amp is tops really top shelf the dac is ok but really needs a better dac to show off. I have a AP1/PP. it GREWTLY improves the dac. But it's still a little thin .
Al


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> Plus 1 on the hdvd800. I own one the amp is tops really top shelf the dac is ok but really needs a better dac to show off. I have a AP1/PP. it GREWTLY improves the dac. But it's still a little thin .
> Al




I am not really sure the concept behind the ap1/2/pp but do you think its better to get ap/pp than a separate dedicated dac for hdvd800?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

There is right answer it's about money. 
The ap1/pp. does make the hdvd800 a good dac it greatly improves the clarity. 
But getting a better dac like the Hugo is way above it. So a separate dac is a choice to be made 
Al


----------



## punit

canadian411 said:


> I am not really sure the concept behind the ap1/2/pp but do you think its better to get ap/pp than a separate dedicated dac for hdvd800?


 

 I would assume its better to get a separate superior DAC + hdvd600 (unless you already have the hdvd800)


----------



## 62ohm

What about the DacMagic Plus? Does it make for a good dac pairing with HD800?


----------



## lin0003

62ohm said:


> What about the DacMagic Plus? Does it make for a good dac pairing with HD800?


 
 It's not bad, pretty impressive for the price.


----------



## kkcc

punit said:


> Sounds good with M9 but I prefer them more with WA22. Slightly better soundstage & sounds more natural . (I know, the fact that Trance, which is mostly computer produced music sounds more natural is an oxymoron but there you have it  )






alrainbow said:


> There is right answer it's about money.
> The ap1/pp. does make the hdvd800 a good dac it greatly improves the clarity.
> But getting a better dac like the Hugo is way above it. So a separate dac is a choice to be made
> Al




Loving all genres on HD800 with the Hugo feeding my WA22....


----------



## kazsud

purplegoat said:


> how does everyone feel about using the HD800 with electronic music? thanks



 


After owning the hd800 for over a year I feel if it's mixed good it will sound good on it.


----------



## punit

kazsud said:


> purplegoat said:
> 
> 
> > how does everyone feel about using the HD800 with electronic music? thanks
> ...


 

 Can you give me an example of a TOTL HP where it will sound good even if mixed bad.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  





 Just Kidding.


----------



## Priidik

punit said:


> I mostly listen to Trance & Love them.


 
 +1 Infected Mushroom is really lit up with HD800. 
 I'd say only too stereo-ish (i mean non-binaural) rock is a bit unbearable for me through these cans.


----------



## Canadian411

Is there any dac (full size) that matches hugo's performance similar or even cheaper in price? 

I am sure its a very good dac I don't mind buying it, just that I hate this color coding idea for input rate and volume level. 

Can they just have a display panel with the actual information? Doesn't have to be color display, black and white screen is fine for saving the battery life.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

have you tried the hd800 direct from the hugo and comapre. ??
al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

yes it does seem confusing. but now that i am using it , its very useful bbesides having the settings in the player you know what it beung sent to the hugo. its actually very cool stuff.
as i am on the trin using the i=hone 5 as a player i know what resolution is palying by the color . i felt just like you do, i was way wrong. i know its 2500 but for the money its an amp and a dac and its portible. it most likly sounds better than any other portible out there right now. its a one stop shop deal.
al


----------



## pearljam50000

Is anyone using the HD800 with GeekOut or Audioengine D3?


----------



## longbowbbs

pearljam50000 said:


> Is anyone using the HD800 with GeekOut or Audioengine D3?


 
 I am using it on occasion with the Geek Out 1000. It works great.


----------



## Sorrodje

purplegoat said:


> how does everyone feel about using the HD800 with electronic music? thanks


 
  
 The HD800 sounds absolutely great for some Electronic Music : Every time the Music needs perfect reproduction of an atmosphere, the HD800 is a winner. the Only Electronic Music I find a more bassy/fun headphone would do better is for some mainstream electronic or House. For these  dance oriented music,the HD800 lacks of visceral oomph IMO But for Trance, or Uk Garage ou ambient or some more experimental work, the HD800 offers  a stunning experience .


----------



## pearljam50000

longbowbbs said:


> I am using it on occasion with the Geek Out 1000. It works great.



Do you feel you are missing alot compared to a desktop DAC/amp?


----------



## longbowbbs

Not a fair comparison as my desktop rig is significant. However, it is a very capable device for the money,


----------



## Reactcore

alrainbow said:


> Plus 1 on the hdvd800. I own one the amp is tops really top shelf the dac is ok but really needs a better dac to show off. I have a AP1/PP. it GREWTLY improves the dac. But it's still a little thin .
> Al




So the hdvd600 should be a better choice since it only features the amp?
I have an ak120 i can use with toslink cables

Well actually i would like to know if there are ak120 with hd800 owners that are rather using it without xtra amp.. 
My wallet is not recovered yet from those purchases, well i can always sell my limited hd580 jubilees


----------



## OldSkool

sorrodje said:


> The HD800 sounds absolutely great for some Electronic Music : Every time the Music needs perfect reproduction of an atmosphere, the HD800 is a winner. the Only Electronic Music I find a more bassy/fun headphone would do better is for some mainstream electronic or House. For these  dance oriented music,the HD800 lacks of visceral oomph IMO But for Trance, or Uk Garage ou ambient or some more experimental work, the HD800 offers  a stunning experience .


 

 I totally agree. I prefer the LCD2.3 for electronic as I find it a bit more "euphoric" than the HD800. But for all other genres, the HD800 is clearly the better can.
  
 YMMV.


----------



## James-uk

alrainbow said:


> There is right answer it's about money.
> The ap1/pp. does make the hdvd800 a good dac it greatly improves the clarity.
> But getting a better dac like the Hugo is way above it. So a separate dac is a choice to be made
> Al




Would it not be best to get a balanced dac for the hdvd800 to take full advantage of the balanced amp ? Is the Hugo balanced? If not when you connect it into the RCA connections on the hdvd800 does this not have an impact on the sound quality? Or does the signal still utilise the balanced amp with no loss of quality?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

yes a balanced dac sorry . my thought is though the hugo is a very good dac and is a one stop shop for headphones or iem,s . but if you had the hdvd600 and wanted a dac you would be hard fast to do better atthe price point of the hugo.
al


----------



## James-uk

alrainbow said:


> yes a balanced dac sorry . my thought is though the hugo is a very good dac and is a one stop shop for headphones or iem,s . but if you had the hdvd600 and wanted a dac you would be hard fast to do better atthe price point of the hugo.
> al



I can't see any balanced outputs on any of the pictures of it?


----------



## Zoom25

purplegoat said:


> how does everyone feel about using the HD800 with electronic music? thanks


 
  
 Better than HE-500, LCD-2, LCD-3, AH-D2000. LCD-2 comes the closest out of the bunch. Haven't heard TH-600 and TH-900 which are apparently also contenders.


----------



## nephilim32

notalefty said:


> The TH900's really give the HD800's a run for their money, good luck!




The TH 900's I had a problem with. The bass distorts at very loud listening levels. Meanwhile the HD 800 's do not!! Just my experience.


----------



## namaiki

Do you have any audio track samples? Any EQ? I've never heard any bass distortion with my TH-900s after having owned them for more than a year.


----------



## nephilim32

He





namaiki said:


> Do you have any audio track samples? Any EQ? I've never heard any bass distortion with my TH-900s after having owned them for more than a year.




Hi. When I went to buy my Sennheisers I tested 3 different headphones and the AH1000 Denons were one of them. Sorry not the 900's but the equipment that the store had was with a Yamaha receiver with a type A USB I-Pod connector, so I could directly connect my portable device to the receiver then test the cans. All of my files on my I-pod are in 24/192. I'm not sure about the Yamaha receivers DAC quality for I cannot for the life of me remember the receivers model #. Sorry about that, but upon testing the 3 CANS, the Grado Ps 1000's, Denon AH1000's and HD 800's the Sens walked away with a very easy victory, especially music played at high volumes with that set up. I realize with a quality DAC and SS amp those 900's probably sing a lot better at high volumes. Nonetheless they cracked and popped at a high volume level where as the Sens did not and still kept their dynamics integrity. The ps 1000's I found were even more treble heavy than the Sens which affected my decision to go with the Sens. Lastly. I used as I always do a "flat' eq setting on the I pod.


----------



## whirlwind

When I got these cans, I was a tad bit worried about how they would do with rock..no worries....AC/DC sounds incredible with these cans


----------



## 62ohm

whirlwind said:


> When I got these cans, I was a tad bit worried about how they would do with rock..no worries....AC/DC sounds incredible with these cans


 
  
 Try Norah Jones / Diana Krall


----------



## OldSkool

Try Alice In Chains/MTV Unplugged


----------



## Sorrodje

whirlwind said:


> When I got these cans, I was a tad bit worried about how they would do with rock..no worries....AC/DC sounds incredible with these cans


 
  
 early AC/DC  ( Highway to Hell, For those about to rock , ...) haven't been problematic in my experience. If I'm not wrong , we're talking about analog recordings so with not badly remastered CD , these album should sound fine. I'm not so confident about more recent production. 
  
 The point is even if some rock sounds good through a HD800, I'm convinced there's better option for Rock fans. On the contrary, It's hard to beat a HD800 for classical or contemporary Jazz (Still IMO)
  
 That been said, if you can enjoy every music you listen to with your HD800 , it's a good sign that your current system is good for the Sennheiser flagship. Enjoy ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## nephilim32

Try DREAM THEATER's entire TRAIN OF THE THOUGHT album. Holy crap.


----------



## nephilim32

whirlwind said:


> When I got these cans, I was a tad bit worried about how they would do with rock..no worries....AC/DC sounds incredible with these cans



Every genre of music is a winner with the HD's. the 800's are even great with electronic music. Try listening to Depeche Mode's Violator in DTS 24/96k. It'll change your life. Lol.


----------



## Rossliew

nephilim32 said:


> Every genre of music is a winner with the HD's. the 800's are even great with electronic music. Try listening to Depeche Mode's Violator in DTS 24/96k. It'll change your life. Lol.


 
 Agreed..even with the heaviest of heavy metal, it delivers just fine.


----------



## pearljam50000

I'm dying to listen to Sepultura-Roots on HD800


----------



## LugBug1

IME, regardless of the genre of music, if its a good recording it will sound good with the HD800. Transparency is the key here - nothing added, nothing taken away. It just so happens that Classical, modern Jazz, Acoustic music is generally much better produced. Or produced with good hi-fi in mind. 
  
 But great Rock and Electronic recordings will sound fab too, theres no reason why they shouldn't? Unless you prefer extra colour added into the mix. I love a bit of good Ambient music with the HD800 myself.. (on top of my classical and jazz that is


----------



## MIKELAP

lugbug1 said:


> Soz for reposting this guys but I'm catching up.
> 
> This is sooooo effin COOL!! Al and Miles!
> 
> ...


 
 lol


----------



## PinkLed

oldskool said:


> Try Alice In Chains/MTV Unplugged


 
 +1!


----------



## Kheadfi

These cans fits all music. When a top audiophile company like Sound Liaison even mix on them, that proves how good the Sennheisers really are!
 (see my new thread)


----------



## PinkLed

One suggestion, do yourself a favor get a new cable such as the moon audio black dragon. It defiantly opens up the low end of the HD800s, no question about it. I can't believe I used the stock cable for this long. In most cases for HP, cable really makes no difference, but the HD800s are the exception.


----------



## whirlwind

62ohm said:


> Try Norah Jones / Diana Krall


 
 Thanks...will give a listen
  


oldskool said:


> Try Alice In Chains/MTV Unplugged


 
 will give this a listen also, even though I am not much a fan  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


lugbug1 said:


> IME, regardless of the genre of music, if its a good recording it will sound good with the HD800. Transparency is the key here - nothing added, nothing taken away. It just so happens that Classical, modern Jazz, Acoustic music is generally much better produced. Or produced with good hi-fi in mind.
> 
> But great Rock and Electronic recordings will sound fab too, theres no reason why they shouldn't? Unless you prefer extra colour added into the mix. I love a bit of good Ambient music with the HD800 myself.. (on top of my classical and jazz that is


 
 Absolutely.
  
 I have been working my way through my whole freakin library....which contains tons of rock and blues......I have been loving everything , as long as it has been a good recording.
  
 I have never really been a fan of a big sound stage...but this is just the shiz.....just incredible.


----------



## Zoom25

Talking about cables, I'm always wondering how no one ever talks about the cables wired inside DACs and amps. It's always the headphone cable at the very end that ends up making the differences. It's as if all the DAC and amp manufacturers use perfect internal wires and the headphone companies always make terrible headphone cables.
  
 I've owned upgraded and custom cables for aesthetics, flexibility, weight and supposedly better performance - so it's not like I haven't tried that. People talk about cables and differences for sure in other forums, but with respect to headphones and head-fi, it's completely on a different level. Just making an observation.


----------



## whirlwind

zoom25 said:


> Talking about cables, I'm always wondering how no one ever talks about the cables wired inside DACs and amps. It's always the headphone cable at the very end that ends up making the differences. It's as if all the DAC and amp manufacturers use perfect internal wires and the headphone companies always make terrible headphone cables.
> 
> I've owned upgraded and custom cables for aesthetics, flexibility, weight and supposedly better performance - so it's not like I haven't tried that. People talk about cables and differences for sure in other forums, but with respect to headphones and head-fi, it's completely on a different level. Just making an observation.


 




  
 Me personally....unless I need a different length or have trouble with microphonics.....I'm all good......but to each their own


----------



## Canadian411

I should have 4x24awg cardas bulk cable (4ft = $75~) coming soon and I will be comparing against mogami cables.

Diff is about $17 per feet or if you buy from moonaudio you are looking at about $150 surplus.

And don't forget, no one actually talked about the connectors and type of solder used.

Honestly I don't think my ears can tell between ofc and occ cables given the same grade.

I think its all in your brain thinking $$$ cables sound good. Will report back soon after my experiment.


----------



## Zoom25

canadian411 said:


> I should have 4x24awg cardas bulk cable (4ft = $75~) coming soon and I will be comparing against mogami cables.
> 
> Diff is about $17 per feet or if you buy from moonaudio you are looking at about $150 surplus.
> 
> ...


 
 Report back on it. I personally use Mogami for wiring.


----------



## Zoom25

whirlwind said:


> Me personally....unless I need a different length or have trouble with microphonics.....I'm all good......but to each their own


 
 Yeah, exactly. Audeze, Hifiman and Senn all have 8+ stock cables.


----------



## 62ohm

Has anyone tried the newly remastered Led Zeppelin albums with HD800?


----------



## frankrondaniel

62ohm said:


> Has anyone tried the newly remastered Led Zeppelin albums with HD800?


 
  
 I haven't tried them with my HD800's yet, but I'm somewhat disappointed with what I hear so far (from HDTracks, 24/96).  The first album was done well - I'm happy with that one.  But I'm not at all happy with II.  Sounds like a step back from what I recall from CD.  I haven't had a chance to listen to III yet.


----------



## HPiper

62ohm said:


> Has anyone tried the newly remastered Led Zeppelin albums with HD800?


 

 Are you talking about the box set Jimmy Page remastered a while back or the ones that just appeared on HDTracks? I have the boxed set and don't really feel that an HD download is going to improve on it very much.


----------



## 62ohm

hpiper said:


> Are you talking about the box set Jimmy Page remastered a while back or the ones that just appeared on HDTracks? I have the boxed set and don't really feel that an HD download is going to improve on it very much.


 
  
 The ones that have just appeared on HDTracks (and Amazon actually).


----------



## HPiper

Anybody know if the serial number of the HD800's are any indication of when they were manufactured? If it starts with a 2 does that mean it is older than one that starts with a 3 for example.


----------



## James-uk

hpiper said:


> Anybody know if the serial number of the HD800's are any indication of when they were manufactured? If it starts with a 2 does that mean it is older than one that starts with a 3 for example.




They are numbered in order of when they come off the production line. The very first production hd800 is #1 and the latest are #30,000 + . Mine is 17,0** and is about 2 years old.


----------



## icebear

If they use continuous assignment of serial number, then a lower number would be older, common sense isn't it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ?
  
 But to the first part of your question :
 Unless there is a list of serial number ranges related to years of purchase, only Sennheiser would be able to give you that reference. You can find something like that (production dates/serial number cross reference) e.g. for Leica film camera bodies. I have never seen it for audio equipment though.
  
 Mine has #26xxx and I bought it 6 month ago.


----------



## HPiper

icebear said:


> If they use continuous assignment of serial number, then a lower number would be older, common sense isn't it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That makes sense, of course you don't know how long they have been sitting in a warehouse someplace or on a dealers shelve. Mine is 28 and it is almost new but I got it as a new return so I know it has been around a while before I got it.


----------



## whirlwind

james-uk said:


> They are numbered in order of when they come off the production line. The very first production hd800 is #1 and the latest are #30,000 + . Mine is 17,0** and is about 2 years old.


 

 Thanks for this.....mine is 19XXX....so now I know how old....thanks again


----------



## Jodet

james-uk said:


> They are numbered in order of when they come off the production line. The very first production hd800 is #1 and the latest are #30,000 + . Mine is 17,0** and is about 2 years old.


 
  
 30,000 * $1500 = 45 million dollars.
  
 What?  Can that be right??????


----------



## 62ohm

jodet said:


> 30,000 * $1500 = 45 million dollars.
> 
> What?  Can that be right??????


 
  
 Don't forget they took 7 years of R&D to complete (if the ad is to be believed).


----------



## Eee Pee

They were cheaper when I bought my #69xx one.  $1300


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jodet said:


> 30,000 * $1500 = 45 million dollars.
> 
> What?  Can that be right??????


 
  
 Why not?


----------



## surf282

But the price sold to retailer is more like $800. So in reality is more like 25 mil dollars.


----------



## HideousPride

$45 million is not the profit Sennheiser made, it's revenue - not even $1500/headphone because Sennheiser isn't selling to distributors at MSRP. You'd also have to have much more information regarding all of the expenses associated with the product before realizing how much the Senn 800s have actually made the company.

The company I work for has billions in revenue annually. If you just focus on that one number, you'd think we'd be making an absolute killing when in fact it's nowhere near that simple.


----------



## troymadison

I think if i sell my car i'll buy one of these


----------



## MIKELAP

62ohm said:


> Has anyone tried the newly remastered Led Zeppelin albums with HD800?


 
 From the samples i listened on HDtracks compared to regular album i wont be buying the new albums not worth it unless you dont have it already on CD.


----------



## James-uk

Current set up- iMac > iTunes >bit perfect > odac > HDVD800> balanced out >HD800. I've been using this exact chain(decided to use odac and bit perfect) for a few weeks and I couldn't be happier. I have listened to everything from classical to drum and bass and I honestly can't find any fault with any aspect of the SQ. It's absolutely stunning. I really like buying new gear but this has killed any need for 'upgrades' including the sr009 bug! What to do now? Oh that's right it's time to just sit back with a beer and enjoy the music! The HD800s are absolute perfection and it's took me 2 years(and lots of money) to fully appreciate them. Glad to be part of this thread and I enjoy reading about everyone's own experiences with this amazing HP and associated equipment. Hope everyone is well, have a good weekend!


----------



## Sorrodje

Congrats James-UK. 

Which gear did you buy and sell before staying with the odac and the hdvd800?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

james the hdvd800 and the hd800 is great combo the dac inside is actually very good but a little thin . but to get to this level of porfamce you need a n offramp or ap1 and pp i am not saying to buy one but if you could borogh one to hesr it that would be good. the only downside to the usb converter is the dac only does dsd over the usb. 
any advice or help pm me or post in the thread . i can advise acuostic sounds as very good website to download dsd and jriver is a good player. foobar too but i prefure jriver . 
good luck and do amini review of your thoughts , for me it beats out the stax in almost every way. the he6 are more full but has a little less details but not good on that amp. i am glad you like the amp. it gets knocked for the boutique all the time .
al


----------



## James-uk

sorrodje said:


> Congrats James-UK.
> 
> Which gear did you buy and sell before staying with the odac and the hdvd800?




Burson 160d , v200/800 , fiio ek09 and alpine dac, even tried some old receivers and my current yamaha one. kept O2 . Had a few listening sessions in a local store with other hi end stuff such as naim but ended up with senn amp paired with odac . I've never tried tubes but I'm a bit OCD with 'accuracy' . I feel confident I have found a combo now that is perfect for my taste without sacrificing any of the hd800 strong points. I'm hearing all the superlatives in spades!!


----------



## LugBug1

james-uk said:


> Current set up- iMac > iTunes >bit perfect > odac > HDVD800> balanced out >HD800. I've been using this exact chain(decided to use odac and bit perfect) for a few weeks and I couldn't be happier. I have listened to everything from classical to drum and bass and I honestly can't find any fault with any aspect of the SQ. It's absolutely stunning. I really like buying new gear but this has killed any need for 'upgrades' including the sr009 bug! What to do now? Oh that's right it's time to just sit back with a beer and enjoy the music! The HD800s are absolute perfection and it's took me 2 years(and lots of money) to fully appreciate them. Glad to be part of this thread and I enjoy reading about everyone's own experiences with this amazing HP and associated equipment. Hope everyone is well, have a good weekend!


 






 Glad you're enjoying it bud, time to relax and focus on the music!


----------



## MickeyVee

Nice!  Hoping to add the HDVD800 with a balanced cable someday.  Enjoy!!
 Quote:


james-uk said:


> Current set up- iMac > iTunes >bit perfect > odac > HDVD800> balanced out >HD800. I've been using this exact chain(decided to use odac and bit perfect) for a few weeks and I couldn't be happier.


----------



## whirlwind

These cans just kick it old rock & roll !
  
 Just finished AC/DC       High Voltage & Powerage  cds.......my oh my.........these cans can deliver


----------



## Sorrodje

Listened to that this afternoon:
  

  
 I was very surprised to enjoy it so much. I like the music for sure but I found that the recording is good enough to be fully enjoyable. It's not the case with my "Nevermind" version.


----------



## pearljam50000

sorrodje said:


> Listened to that this afternoon:
> 
> 
> 
> I was very surprised to enjoy it so much. I like the music for sure but I found that the recording is good enough to be fully enjoyable. It's not the case with my "Nevermind" version.


 
 Do you have the HDtracks version?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Acoustic sounds has really good versions 
And they are mixed from the analog tapes 
And DSD 64


----------



## Wildcatsare1

alrainbow said:


> Acoustic sounds has really good versions
> And they are mixed from the analog tapes
> And DSD 64




Al, must get a copy, do you have a favorite?


----------



## Bartez75

I like that album too. it was released differently then Nevermind. In my opinion there is more bass, more dynamics and somehow it is more mature. But on the other hand Nevermind has this unforgettable brightness in the sound and amazing sound of Cobain's guitar.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Age and genre you like. 
I am 57 but listen to all genre minus rap 
What do you like ??


----------



## Bartez75

I'm 39 in December 
 Like:
 - King Crimson  - this is the best band ever existed 
 - The Cure
 - Led Zeppelin
 - Black Sabbath
 - Budgie
 - Pink Floyd
 - Depeche Mode
 - Prodigy
 - Miles Davis
 - Grunge in general
 - U2
 - The Chemical Brothers
 - Mike Oldfield
 - The Alan's Parsons Project
  
 end more....


----------



## whirlwind

bartez75 said:


> I'm 39 in December
> Like:
> - King Crimson  - this is the best band ever existed
> - The Cure
> ...


 

 Nice list of music........I am going to need to get a king crimson cd....what do you suggest


----------



## Dionysus

Mickey the HDVD800 is a killer amp and DAC combo, I picked up a perfectwave DAC used and pristine for 500.00 couldn't pass it up, but I was very happy and I am sure you will love the combo balanced out.


----------



## Crashem

dionysus said:


> Mickey the HDVD800 is a killer amp and DAC combo, I picked up a perfectwave DAC used and pristine for 500.00 couldn't pass it up, but I was very happy and I am sure you will love the combo balanced out.




Great deal on the PWD. I would recommend at least getting mk ii upgrade. Should be a bunch of them out there on the cheap because of upgrades to ps audio DS. Or just go to DS as initial word is that it is noticeably better.


----------



## Crashem

Just got my HD800. Recommended burn in?


----------



## koiloco

crashem said:


> Just got my HD800. Recommended burn in?


 
 Is there such thing?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

To the person who just bought the Pwd , if upgrading get the DS UPGRADE. If not I have a Pwd mkii upgrade for you. Just make me an offer In a pm. 
Al


----------



## Crashem

koiloco said:


> Is there such thing?




Why not.


----------



## koiloco

crashem said:


> Why not.


 
 Why not, it is.  You are already a believer!  You will definitely hear the difference after your new HP is broken in.  You got some good stuff feeding into the HP.  Enjoy...


----------



## sp3llv3xit

koiloco said:


> Is there such thing?


 


 Much have been argued for and against the practice of burning in headphones.  For dynamics, I have personally conducted experiments by buying two headphones that are of the same make. There are apparent and appreciable differences between the old and the new (out of the box).  At the end of the day, it boils down to what you are willing to do versus what may be perceived as a probable benefit that may be derived from the burn-in treatment.  

 Over time, through regular usage, your HD800 will get to that "settled sound" anyway.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Please read my reasoning and review 
On burn in 
On the audio GD M7 thread. 
Al


----------



## MickeyVee

Nice! Heard a lot of great things about the PWD.
 Quote:


dionysus said:


> Mickey the HDVD800 is a killer amp and DAC combo, I picked up a perfectwave DAC used and pristine for 500.00 couldn't pass it up, but I was very happy and I am sure you will love the combo balanced out.


----------



## Bartez75

If you get one, try to get the last remastered ones (40th Anniversary)
 I recommend you all but they are very different and one can like "In the Court of the Crimson King" and one "Red" for example.
 I suggest, get all 
 If you like a bit of Jazz get "Lizard" and "Islands"
 If more heavy rock then "Larks Tongues of Aspic" and "Red"


----------



## Dopaminer

I didn`t burn in, I just started listening, and kept a record of times and impressions.  My HD800s started squirting endorphin directly into my brain right around the 125 hour mark.  After 150 hours I stopped noticing any change (probably due to delirium).  These are my impressions, from memory and I have no interest in hearing contrarian arguments claiming to prove that my impressions are wrong.   
  
 You are going to love these headphones.  Enjoy !


----------



## Zoom25

What do you guys think of the Q701s? I remember hearing the comparisons between these and HD800 back in the day. Should I even entertain these or not?


----------



## LugBug1

zoom25 said:


> What do you guys think of the Q701s? I remember hearing the comparisons between these and HD800 back in the day. Should I even entertain these or not?


 
 I think they are great headphones for the money these days. But the only similarity to the HD800's is the soundstage size. They are drier and more distant sounding and the FR can be annoyingly flat for some tastes. With a little EQ at the 2khz mark and a very powerful amp they can sound remarkable with good recordings. But in general they are very picky with recordings. Defo a love or hate hp - but I've always loved em!


----------



## Mortalcoil

zoom25 said:


> What do you guys think of the Q701s? I remember hearing the comparisons between these and HD800 back in the day. Should I even entertain these or not?


 

 Not to sound overly blunt but from my recollection of the 701 there is no comparison.
  
 The 701 for as long as I can remember has had the distinct reputation for being sterile, lifeless, dry, cold, and simply unimpressive.
  
 These impressions were all conceived just after the headphones release also,  a time when "new toy syndrome" usually counteracts the negative aspects.
  
 Admittedly I have noticed that the 701 (in all of its glorious variations) has made somewhat of a comeback here on Head-Fi .....cannot for the life of me understand why. (lol....perhaps my post is overly blunt) (oh almost forgot ... no offense to anyone)


----------



## Zoom25

lugbug1 said:


> I think they are great headphones for the money these days. But the only similarity to the HD800's is the soundstage size. They are drier and more distant sounding and the FR can be annoyingly flat for some tastes. With a little EQ at the 2khz mark and a very powerful amp they can sound remarkable with good recordings. But in general they are very picky with recordings. Defo a love or hate hp - but I've always loved em!


 
  
 Yeah, no way I'm buying for retail. I was getting them closer to $150 new, so curiosity got the best of me. I've always heard that they were hard to amp. My DM Source powers the HD800 very well, rarely needing to go above 12'o clock (halfway max). I checked up on the sensitivity of HD800 (102 dB) vs Q701 (105 dB). Would you say that these two headphones share certain amping load based on experience?
  
 I was looking at them for movies and TV shows mainly and maybe some hip hop music from time to time. Leaving other bass heavy stuff for speakers and D2000.


----------



## Zoom25

mortalcoil said:


> Not to sound overly blunt but from my recollection of the 701 there is no comparison.
> 
> The 701 for as long as I can remember has had the distinct reputation for being sterile, lifeless, dry, cold, and simply unimpressive.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah I was just thinking of picking them up in the meanwhile. Might just let them go and wait for the HD800 whenever I do get them. The HD800 have been getting pushed back constantly with speakers, TV, Oppo video players and another DAC. So thought, if these would be alright for a little bit.


----------



## Mortalcoil

zoom25 said:


> Yeah I was just thinking of picking them up in the meanwhile. Might just let them go and wait for the HD800 whenever I do get them. The HD800 have been getting pushed back constantly with speakers, TV, Oppo video players and another DAC. So thought, if these would be alright for a little bit.


 

 I just saw your post above Zoom25.  If you are getting a good deal on them may as well give them a shot.  They me a tad bass shy however. ("tad" referring to non existent)
  
 Or.....save your money and put it aside towards the HD-800.


----------



## Zoom25

mortalcoil said:


> I just saw your post above Zoom25.  If you are getting a good deal on them may as well give them a shot.  They me a tad bass shy however. ("tad" referring to non existent)
> 
> Or.....save your money and put it aside towards the HD-800.


 
 Yeah might just do that. I am looking to free up my DM Source from living room first with something like Emotiva DC-1. Next, I need a video processor for videos and HDMI processor like Oppo BDP 103. Then I can worry about the HD800.


----------



## Priidik

Cannot say about Q701, but K701 (very similar?) driven by speaker amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 is def not bass shy compared to HD800, sure lower octave is a bit lacking. I completely disregarded these phones until i heard these with a Marantz speaker amp.
 They actually punch really hard and fast well driven.
 Only thing limiting its use for me is the artificial mid-range.
  
 Still they are just mid tier cans next to HD800, well no comparison really. HD800 resting on a headphone stand images better and has better sound-stage than K701 worn on head.
 It escapes me how anyone thinks K701 has great sound-stage.. and compares these with HD800 in this regard.


----------



## philo50

priidik said:


> HD800 resting on a headphone stand images better and has better sound-stage than K701 worn on head.
> It escapes me how anyone thinks K701 has great sound-stage.. and compares these with HD800 in this regard.


----------



## LugBug1

zoom25 said:


> Yeah, no way I'm buying for retail. I was getting them closer to $150 new, so curiosity got the best of me. I've always heard that they were hard to amp. My DM Source powers the HD800 very well, rarely needing to go above 12'o clock (halfway max). I checked up on the sensitivity of HD800 (102 dB) vs Q701 (105 dB). *Would you say that these two headphones share certain amping load based on experience?*
> 
> I was looking at them for movies and TV shows mainly and maybe some hip hop music from time to time. Leaving other bass heavy stuff for speakers and D2000.


 
 The AKG's will need a little more volume than the HD800. But they also like more voltage to bring out the lower end and this helps to add body. The AKG's are more like planars in respect to the low impedance but need for loads of power. So hybrid amps such as the Lyr that give out lots of watts are recommended, vintage amps are a cheaper option too and would be my first choice if you have the desk space  
  
 Anyone who claims these are lifeless and sterile are simply under amping them. Its a classic tell tale sign  They are one of the most neutral hp's out there, that is all.
  
 They should suit your needs perfect for movies etc with the wide soundstage. You might want to add some bass with EQ for hip-hop though. 
  
 Also and just in general, I don't think its fair to compare the QK/701 to the HD800. The AKG's had their little moment at the top many years ago and so in the interests of what is relevant now (in terms of technology and monies) we should just let them enjoy their retirement


----------



## pearljam50000

Sorry for the stupid question, but because of the angled driver, does the size of the ear matters?


----------



## Priidik

Haven't heard anyone complaining. I have pretty large head/ears ,but ears are not too angled.
 Anyways if i modded mine (Anax mod), i had to 
 choose thinner materials, otherwise my ears made contact with the liner, which is irritating. 
 The angled inside actually helps to ensure there is no contact, but close proximity to the ear.


----------



## PinkLed

whirlwind said:


> Nice list of music........I am going to need to get a king crimson cd....what do you suggest


 
 +1, King Crimson is amazing, 
  
 I would sample them because their music varies so much. They are not your standard musicians and their sound changes from album to album.
  
 My favorites are Red, USA (live album, 40th anniversary edition is incredible, songs are so much longer then the original LP), Discipline, In the Court of the Crimson King, Larks Tongues and Aspic, and Starless and Bible Black
  
 For you King Crimson fans another great band is U K, made up of John Wetton from KC, Eddie Jobson who played with Zappa, and Bill Bruford original Yes member and also a KC member. 
  
 Also check out Stick Men, a band formed by Tony Levin famous for playing the Chapman Stick, a KC member who debuted on their album Discipline, A great album although different from their earlier stuff


----------



## Zoom25

lugbug1 said:


> The AKG's will need a little more volume than the HD800. But they also like more voltage to bring out the lower end and this helps to add body. The AKG's are more like planars in respect to the low impedance but need for loads of power. So hybrid amps such as the Lyr that give out lots of watts are recommended, vintage amps are a cheaper option too and would be my first choice if you have the desk space
> 
> Anyone who claims these are lifeless and sterile are simply under amping them. Its a classic tell tale sign  They are one of the most neutral hp's out there, that is all.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ended up buying them last night in white as they stood out to be the most unique….Although I cancelled it today. Despite the cheap price I can get them at, I didn't want to make sacrifices with comfort anymore. Don't feel like dealing with bumps. A part of me atm wants to get on it again, but the other practical side of me is quite happy. Might as well not waste money on these and get the HD800 quicker with which I don't have to sacrifice on any part of the sound and comfort.


----------



## LugBug1

zoom25 said:


> Ended up buying them last night in white as they stood out to be the most unique….Although I cancelled it today. Despite the cheap price I can get them at, I didn't want to make sacrifices with comfort anymore. Don't feel like dealing with bumps. A part of me atm wants to get on it again, but the other practical side of me is quite happy. Might as well not waste money on these and get the HD800 quicker with which I don't have to sacrifice on any part of the sound and comfort.


 
 If you are going to get the HD800 anyway, then you made the right choice bud


----------



## James-uk

For anyone concerned by the price of the HD800 break it down into hours of use/ pleasure. I did this and I estimate that over the last 2 years I've had approximately 260 hours of listening time with these based on a conservative 5 hours a week on average. That works out at roughly £1.92 per hour of use so far. That's cheap entertainment in my book! So for me it wasn't money wasted it was money well spent. Best thing is is they are the gift that keep on giving  I'm going to be enjoying these for years to come so that figure gets diluted even more.


----------



## Zoom25

lugbug1 said:


> If you are going to get the HD800 anyway, then you made the right choice bud


 
 Yeah, already had decided to get the HD800 after auditioning them, but kept getting sidetracked with other purchases. Still have a few more things to get before jumping back into the high end headphones. I miss my LCD-3. The D2000 while being exceptional for movies and TV shows, it simply can't cut it for music.
  
 The only two headphones that currently intrigue me are: HE-560 and the upcoming Hifiman stat.
  
 After having lived with HE-500, LCD-2 and LCD-3 for 3 years, I figured I probably wouldn't be able to enjoy the Q701s as much as I would have, had I not heard the other three. So HD800 it will be.


----------



## Canadian411

zoom25 said:


> Yeah, already had decided to get the HD800 after auditioning them, but kept getting sidetracked with other purchases. Still have a few more things to get before jumping back into the high end headphones. I miss my LCD-3. The D2000 while being exceptional for movies and TV shows, it simply can't cut it for music.
> 
> The only two headphones that currently intrigue me are: HE-560 and the upcoming Hifiman stat.
> 
> After having lived with HE-500, LCD-2 and LCD-3 for 3 years, I figured I probably wouldn't be able to enjoy the Q701s as much as I would have, had I not heard the other three. So HD800 it will be.




You will love hd800., maybe th900 later on if you miss the lcd2/3 sound quality (not the discomfort)


----------



## Zoom25

canadian411 said:


> You will love hd800., maybe th900 later on if you miss the lcd2/3 sound quality (not the discomfort)


 
 TH-900 are also planned as an upgrade for closed/D2000. I was initially considering TH-600 but backed out and wanted to hold on the TH-900. At the moment, I have two closed and no opens, so the HD800 will be first. Yeah I missed the LCD-2 most, but definitely not their discomfort. Comfort is non-negotiable going forward, regardless of how well they sound.


----------



## Canadian411

zoom25 said:


> TH-900 are also planned as an upgrade for closed/D2000. I was initially considering TH-600 but backed out and wanted to hold on the TH-900. At the moment, I have two closed and no opens, so the HD800 will be first. Yeah I missed the LCD-2 most, but definitely not their discomfort. Comfort is non-negotiable going forward, regardless of how well they sound.



 


Yape, that's the reason I sold my Audeze, and probably will not buy again unless they fix the design flaw, (weight and annoying angle pads).  but just me, peace !


----------



## ngyu

zoom25 said:


> Yeah, already had decided to get the HD800 after auditioning them, but kept getting sidetracked with other purchases. Still have a few more things to get before jumping back into the high end headphones. I miss my LCD-3. The D2000 while being exceptional for movies and TV shows, it simply can't cut it for music.
> 
> The only two headphones that currently intrigue me are: HE-560 and the upcoming Hifiman stat.
> 
> After having lived with HE-500, LCD-2 and LCD-3 for 3 years, I figured I probably wouldn't be able to enjoy the Q701s as much as I would have, had I not heard the other three. So HD800 it will be.


 
 fancy seeing you here zoom. I ended up selling your HE500, and bought an HD800, so looks like I'll be joining this thread now.


----------



## magiccabbage

pinkled said:


> +1, King Crimson is amazing,
> 
> I would sample them because their music varies so much. They are not your standard musicians and their sound changes from album to album.
> 
> ...


 
 larks tongues and discipline are by far the best IMO.


----------



## Zoom25

ngyu said:


> fancy seeing you here zoom. I ended up selling your HE500, and bought an HD800, so looks like I'll be joining this thread now.


 
 Nice! LOL I remember telling you to get a HD800 just awhile back. You're going to love it.

 I'm sure we'll still be able to find that HE-500 in a crowd just by feeling on the rough sliding mechanism on one of the sides. It was one of a kind.


----------



## PinkLed

magiccabbage said:


> larks tongues and discipline are by far the best IMO.


 
 Those are defiantly the top tier king crimson, I would put Red up there as well. 


> zoom25 said:
> 
> 
> > ..... Yeah I missed the LCD-2 most, but definitely not their discomfort. Comfort is non-negotiable going forward, regardless of how well they sound.
> ...


 
 Putting on my LCD2 sometimes makes me feel like im strapping into an astronauts helmet. They are flawed in that respect. Imaging is lacking as well in direct comparison. I almost lost all hope for the LCD2 and didn't use them for a year since this forum so graciously introduced me to the HD800s. That was until I gave them one last run before selling them. In a head to head match up against the HD800s, I now believe they are an excellent, if not a perfect compliment to the HD800s and cant sell either. What did it for me was a dusty collection of Frank Zappa albums. Apostrophe, Zoot allures and Sheik Yerbout, hilarious albums and at the same time astounding on the LCD2s.


----------



## Zoom25

pinkled said:


> Those are defiantly the top tier king crimson, I would put Red up there as well.
> Putting on my LCD2 sometimes makes me feel like im strapping into an astronauts helmet. They are flawed in that respect. Imaging is lacking as well in direct comparison. I almost lost all hope for the LCD2 and didn't use them for a year since this forum so graciously introduced me to the HD800s. That was until I gave them one last run before selling them. In a head to head match up against the HD800s, I now believe they are an excellent, if not a perfect compliment to the HD800s and cant sell either. What did it for me was a dusty collection of Frank Zappa albums. Apostrophe, Zoot allures and Sheik Yerbout, hilarious albums and at the same time astounding on the LCD2s.


 
 Try putting a Beyer pad on them and pull the headphone apart for a week until they permanently stay in a looser position. Makes it far more comfortable. The weight will still be there, but at least no more awkward pressure points whatsoever.


----------



## PinkLed

zoom25 said:


> Try putting a Beyer pad on them and pull the headphone apart for a week until they permanently stay in a looser position. Makes it far more comfortable. The weight will still be there, but at least no more awkward pressure points whatsoever.


 
 Good suggestion. Beyerdynamic has a lot of different types of pads however. Do you know what model will fit with the Audeze frame?


----------



## Zoom25

pinkled said:


> Good suggestion. Beyerdynamic has a lot of different types of pads however. Do you know what model will fit with the Audeze frame?


 
 I bought one like this: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Headband-Cushion-Pad-fit-BEYER-HiFiMAN-DENON-SONY-KOSS-BOSE-BEATS-DRE-Headphones-/200799150982?pt=US_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item2ec08fe386&_uhb=1
  
 Seriously try pulling the headband apart. Start pulling it apart with both hands at 12 o clock. Next move your hand down the headband, so one at 11 and the other at 1o clock, then 10 and 2, then 9 and 3 and so forth. Keep doing that for a week. Also, each time you pull, make sure to hold that stretch for a few seconds. After the week, the pads never touched each other when on stand.
  
Before the mod: pads touching each other on stand
  

  
  
  
After the mod + headband add-on: Pads never touched each other on stand
  

  
  
 It took awhile but totally worth it.


----------



## Pepper

The HD800 sounds so, so, so, so much better with a pretty aggressive downward EQ from 6k to 10k... (by that I mean 3.5 to 5db down).
  
 You lose the metallicy, thin, annoying sibilance and are left with a big, detailed sound with unmatched imaging. 
  
 Honestly, I can listen to these for a long time (on top of the comfort factor). My LCD-2.2s, the super thick creamy sound gets annoying after awhile. You have to down EQ it in the mids to start revealing some detail, but even then the sound is pretty small compared to the HD800s! 
  
 I didn't like my HD800s very much before the EQ, but I will never turn back now!!!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I am glad your posting the EQ recommendations. Most hear are against any EQ and as such do not get the full effect of using the headphones. May I ask what amp and or dac are you using ??
Al


----------



## preproman

So EQ gives you the 'full effect of using the headphones" ?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   Or does it give you your preference?
  
 These statements, boy I tell ya...


----------



## Priidik

pepper said:


> The HD800 sounds so, so, so, so much better with a pretty aggressive downward EQ from 6k to 10k... (by that I mean 3.5 to 5db down).


 
 I think its more a function of individual ear construction. No denying there are 6k-ish peak and mine has 10,5k peak. 
 At first i did the same thing, applied high-shelf -3dB. But then the phones lost some of its apparent agility and i'd even say transparency. 
 Much better to use band eq filters at trouble spots. Even better is to use no eq at all.
  
 Interestingly while i have no amp at hand that does justice to HD800-s, while feeding it through my dac-s line outs these peaks sort of vanish...


----------



## nigeljames

I think ALRAINBOW's comment was not quite phrased right...at least I hope so


----------



## ALRAINBOW

alrainbow said:


> I am glad your posting the EQ recommendations. Most hear are against any EQ and as such do not get the full effect of using the headphones. May I ask what amp and or dac are you using ??
> Al




I know I don't even know What I meant lmao. 
I sent its good someone shares using EQ. as this is always a debate for purity , as I don not EQ the hd800 I do understand why some feel the end to. For the LCD,3 are too dull without it. The hd800 I do not because witha good DAC and amp they sound very different . The M7 is warmer DAC and for me did not need EQ. however I am 57 years old as such do not hear like you kids do or play better resolution of music. So my comment is EQ is good and better than a mod . But when using the EQ the sound stage and details may suffer . But in the end we shroud enjoy the music and not squint over the sound. 
I hope this is better than before. 
Al


----------



## Priidik

He used to phrase more


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Bro I just woke up in the first text at 4 am. 
I need more coffee. Hahahaha 
Al


----------



## punit

alrainbow said:


> Bro I just woke up in the first text at 4 am.


 
 This. I can perfectly identify with this & Because of that my wife thinks I need help as it is not normal & I should see a shrink or something.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I own a company I have many things to do. 
But even on the days I do not I wake up anyway. 
My wife hates this obsession but hey it's not a titty bar 
Lmao 
She should be happy. 
Al


----------



## kvtaco17

alrainbow said:


> I own a company I have many things to do.
> But even on the days I do not I wake up anyway.
> My wife hates this obsession but hey it's not a titty bar
> Lmao
> ...


 
 ^ this guy


----------



## PinkLed

pepper said:


> The HD800 sounds so, so, so, so much better with a pretty aggressive downward EQ from 6k to 10k... (by that I mean 3.5 to 5db down).
> 
> You lose the metallicy, thin, annoying sibilance and are left with a big, detailed sound with unmatched imaging.
> 
> ...


 
 Sometimes the liquidity of a headphone can make it less fatiguing IMO. Yes, the LCD 2.2 can be annoying and overwhelming at times I agree, they are solely for a certain type of music listening. Using them for anything else is just not practical. HD800s are my go to HP, but the fullness of the mids on the LCD2 make the HD800s seem hollow when the right songs are listened too. Even more so with the stock cable, and I know many will disagree but my blind test tells my ears otherwise.  Like I said before, perfect compliments to each other.
  
 In response to an expensive cable upgrade (I recall Canadian411 saying earlier that sometimes people are tricked into thinking $$$ sounds better) the balanced cable that sennheiser sells for the HD800s is 380$ and equal in price to most reasonably priced aftermarket cables (ex. Moon audio black dragon balanced is 365$). 
  
 Now only if Sennheiser would make a flagship planar....


----------



## ngyu

zoom25 said:


> Nice! LOL I remember telling you to get a HD800 just awhile back. You're going to love it.
> 
> I'm sure we'll still be able to find that HE-500 in a crowd just by feeling on the rough sliding mechanism on one of the sides. It was one of a kind.


 
 Haha yeah I tested one 2 years ago at a meet on a Lyr/Bifrost stack. Can't wait for it to arrive.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

There are headphones I own cause they look great , have pride in owning , just like saying I have that. And then there is the hd800 simply the best headphone out there for the buck and performance . Gotta love the Germans for there impeccable engineering . Sprechen sie deutseh anyone ????

Al


----------



## Canadian411

pinkled said:


> In response to an expensive cable upgrade (I recall Canadian411 saying earlier that sometimes people are tricked into thinking $$$ sounds better) the balanced cable that sennheiser sells for the HD800s is 380$ and equal in price to most reasonably priced aftermarket cables (ex. Moon audio black dragon balanced is 365$).
> 
> Now only if Sennheiser would make a flagship planar....


 
  
 That's just me, after experimenting different cables from 4N to 7N, OFC, OCC, silver, copper, silver-plated copper, etc I cannot tell significant sound difference.
 But again it's my ears. Going from Single ended to Balanced out technically make sense as it uses 4 channels that what Ray Samuels suggested me over a long conversation.  But even with SR71b SE vs SR71b Balanced didn't make lot differences for low impedance headphone which make sense as well.
  
 HD800, on the other hand, high imp, I believe can benefit from Balanced out, I am waiting for Lynx Hilo and HDVD600/HDVD800 so I can try the Balance out 
  
 What I wish from Sennheiser is a closed headphone with the same sound signature and sound stage as HD800, that will kill T5p.


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> There are headphones I own cause they look great , ... Gotta love the Germans for there impeccable engineering . Sprechen sie deutseh anyone ????
> 
> Al


 
 Which one is the good looking headphone Al ? let me collect that too 
  
 And I agree, best engineers come from Germany  (angle drivers ! not angled pads !)


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Lcd3.


----------



## Kheadfi

see this mod;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuhZyubY9pIQuote: 





>


 


pepper said:


> The HD800 sounds so, so, so, so much better with a pretty aggressive downward EQ from 6k to 10k... (by that I mean 3.5 to 5db down).
> 
> You lose the metallicy, thin, annoying sibilance and are left with a big, detailed sound with unmatched imaging.
> 
> ...


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> I own a company I have many things to do.
> But even on the days I do not I wake up anyway.
> My wife hates this obsession but hey it's not a titty bar
> Lmao
> ...


 
 hahahahahaha


----------



## ALRAINBOW

canadian411 said:


> That's just me, after experimenting different cables from 4N to 7N, OFC, OCC, silver, copper, silver-plated copper, etc I cannot tell significant sound difference.
> But again it's my ears. Going from Single ended to Balanced out technically make sense as it uses 4 channels that what Ray Samuels suggested me over a long conversation.  But even with SR71b SE vs SR71b Balanced didn't make lot differences for low impedance headphone which make sense as well.
> 
> HD800, on the other hand, high imp, I believe can benefit from Balanced out, I am waiting for Lynx Hilo and HDVD600/HDVD800 so I can try the Balance out
> ...




I like the idea in using the hdvd600 or 800 in balance mode. I do not know why but it's very obvious the amp section needs to used in balance mode even if using SE input. 
Al


----------



## whirlwind

I am listening to Joe Bonamassa Live From Nowhere In Particular....these cans are for the most part, always good....but man, with some recordings they are jaw dropping good.


----------



## OkawaiiO

Hey just one question I have a HD800 coming in next week, I'm going to drive it with asgard 2 and uber bifrost, I just want to know how is this combo?


----------



## LugBug1

okawaiio said:


> Hey just one question I have a HD800 coming in next week, I'm going to drive it with asgard 2 and uber bifrost, I just want to know how is this combo?


 
 I'd say thats a very respectable start. I used to have the Asgard 1 and so I don't know how much of an improvement the 2 is, but as far as SS amps go you could do a lot worse!
  
 See how you get on with the clean/neutral Schitt sound first, before you get bombarded with the usual recommendations


----------



## Sorrodje

lugbug1 said:


> See how you get on with the clean/neutral Schitt sound first, before you get bombarded with the usual recommendations




This.

Keep your Schiit stack and give a serious listen to your hd800. Then make your own opinion. The hd800 let you know quickly if something goes wrong.


----------



## blackwolf1006

Listening to Chris Botti: Lisa (SACD Rip 96/24). Such a beautiful song. . The HD800 ruined it for me. Now my standards are a little too high. 
  
 Setup
 Fiio x5 > HeadAmp HeadAmp Pico DAC > HD800


----------



## christian u

hi HD800 fans,
  
 go post some of your favorite HD800 music on the thread that kheadfi started;
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/722584/hd800-music-suggestions-please#post_10648572
  
 I would love to see that thread taking of, as I think some music is especially good sounding on the HD800.
  
 Hugh Marsekela'''Hope'' is a good suggestion.


----------



## icebear

As long as it is not Chris Botti 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and has been recorded by a passionate technician who wants to capture the essence of the performance, not just the sound of the individual musicians & instruments, then it will sound great on the HD800. In general "live" recordings, doesn't matter if live in concert or live in studio, will sound better than some over engineered crap that has been mixed together from separate sessions - probably even in different studios. These pieced together recordings often sound artificial, you don't have the natural ambient sound of the room and the HD800 will let you hear that.
  
 I recently came across a Spanish label (Fresh Sound Records) that is reissuing 50's and 60's jazz and some of these analog recordings (I mentioned earlier Herbie Mann's African Suite) sound spectacular.


----------



## pearljam50000

Radiohead- In Rainbows


----------



## MickeyVee

One of my favorite albums ever.  Stunning with the HD800!
 Quote:


christian u said:


> Hugh Marsekela'''Hope'' is a good suggestion.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Hugh Maselela - Hope


----------



## pearljam50000

Did anyone try the Nad 1050 as an amp/dac for HD800?


----------



## maclenltd

I'm looking to upgrade the stock hd800 cable, but spend no more than $400. Is the Cardas-Senheiser HD800 Headphone Upgrade Cable from music direct a decent choice? I'm pairing it with a V200 amp. 
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-778-cardas-hd800-upgrade-cable.aspx


----------



## Canadian411

maclenltd said:


> I'm looking to upgrade the stock hd800 cable, but spend no more than $400. Is the Cardas-Senheiser HD800 Headphone Upgrade Cable from music direct a decent choice? I'm pairing it with a V200 amp.
> http://www.musicdirect.com/p-778-cardas-hd800-upgrade-cable.aspx


 
 Plussound ? you might want to get the 4pin XLR just in case 
  
 I really like *LR Series Custom Cable.*


----------



## icebear

maclenltd said:


> I'm looking to upgrade the stock hd800 cable, but spend no more than $400. Is the Cardas-Senheiser HD800 Headphone Upgrade Cable from music direct a decent choice? I'm pairing it with a V200 amp.
> http://www.musicdirect.com/p-778-cardas-hd800-upgrade-cable.aspx


 

 I am very happy with my custom HD800 Vanquish (balanced) from Trevor at Norne Audio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
 See details in the Norne cable thread here :
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/606500/norne-audio-was-norse-audio-feedback-impression-thread


----------



## maclenltd

T





icebear said:


> I am very happy with my custom HD800 Vanquish (balanced) from Trevor at Norne Audio  .
> See details in the Norne cable thread here :
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/606500/norne-audio-was-norse-audio-feedback-impression-thread



Thanks, I will check this out.


----------



## maclenltd

canadian411 said:


> Plussound ? you might want to get the 4pin XLR just in case
> 
> I really like *LR Series Custom Cable.*



Thank you canadian411


----------



## PinkLed

maclenltd said:


> I'm looking to upgrade the stock hd800 cable, but spend no more than $400. Is the Cardas-Senheiser HD800 Headphone Upgrade Cable from music direct a decent choice? I'm pairing it with a V200 amp.
> http://www.musicdirect.com/p-778-cardas-hd800-upgrade-cable.aspx


 

http://www.moon-audio.com/moon-audio-black-dragon-v2-headphone-cable.html.
  
 Im very happy with moon audios stuff, plus they have a "try it" policy I believe. Good luck!


----------



## ngyu

icebear said:


> I am very happy with my custom HD800 Vanquish (balanced) from Trevor at Norne Audio
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 those are cables i'm eyeing too. plusSound looks pretty good too. maybe i'll build one myself.
  


pinkled said:


> http://www.moon-audio.com/moon-audio-black-dragon-v2-headphone-cable.html.
> 
> Im very happy with moon audios stuff, plus they have a "try it" policy I believe. Good luck!


 
  
 I've had the moon audio black dragon v2, I ended up selling it because it was just too stiff to work with for me. I prefer a more flexible cable.


----------



## PinkLed

ngyu said:


> those are cables i'm eyeing too. plusSound looks pretty good too. maybe i'll build one myself.
> 
> 
> I've had the moon audio black dragon v2, I ended up selling it because it was just too stiff to work with for me. I prefer a more flexible cable.


 
 They are stiffer then most but I like the guitar cable like sleeving just because they never get tangled or twisted. To each their own.


----------



## bearFNF

maclenltd said:


> I'm looking to upgrade the stock hd800 cable, but spend no more than $400. Is the Cardas-Senheiser HD800 Headphone Upgrade Cable from music direct a decent choice? I'm pairing it with a V200 amp.
> http://www.musicdirect.com/p-778-cardas-hd800-upgrade-cable.aspx



I like the 'Q' french silk, very light and flexible.


----------



## Canadian411

pinkled said:


> They are stiffer then most but I like the guitar cable like sleeving just because they never get tangled or twisted. To each their own.


 
  
 I have both x4 and x6 series from PlusSound and it's really flexible soft cable which I like a lot.
 MoonAudio cables you can build yourself few hundred $ cheaper.
  
 MoonAudio 5ft, HD800 with neutrik 4pin xlr = $290
  
 vs
  
 DIY :
 7N UP-OCC $1/ft, need 4 conductors, 5 feet so, $1x5x4 = $20. (6ft if you want to braid)
 HD800 connector = $40
 Neutrik 4 pin xlr gold = $4.89
 Solder + heatshrink + tecflex = $10
*TOTAL of $80.*


----------



## sathyam

I just got cables from DHC. Opened up the HD800. You could try the 4 wire Molecule SE hybrid. I got the 8 wire cable.


----------



## PinkLed

canadian411 said:


> I have both x4 and x6 series from PlusSound and it's really flexible soft cable which I like a lot.
> MoonAudio cables you can build yourself few hundred $ cheaper.
> MoonAudio 5ft, HD800 with neutrik 4pin xlr = $290
> vs
> ...


 
 You could build any cable yourself....
  
 7n occ cost that much if you buy it in bulk, its closer to 2.00$ if you only buy a few feet. 
  
 + soldering iron if you don't have one
  
 + say the process for a first timer took 2 hours, that's about 50$ in labor
  
 + First timer errors est another 50$
  
 + shipping all of these different parts from various sources 
  
 All in all about 200$.
  
 Norse sells all the materials for DIY as well and would cost a very similar price. 
  
 ​


----------



## icebear

pinkled said:


> You could build any cable yourself....
> Norse sells all the materials for DIY as well.


 
 I was thinking about that option too but finally came to my senses 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. My configuration wouldn't really have saved me a lot of money provided that I would have succeeded to solder the HD800 connectors at the first attempt. These suckers are well known to be a pain to work with. There are several suppliers and in case you will need to reorder a single one, after you messed one up, your savings are down the drain. You will need to order a pair and pay again for shipping...
  
 I'll built a power cord which is much easier to handle ( literally ) than a multi strand headphone cable. No "micro soldering" involved 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## maclenltd

Thank you everyone for the recommendations.


----------



## kugino

icebear said:


> I was thinking about that option too but finally came to my senses  . My configuration wouldn't really have saved me a lot of money provided that I would have succeeded to solder the HD800 connectors at the first attempt. These suckers are well known to be a pain to work with. There are several suppliers and in case you will need to reorder a single one, after you messed one up, your savings are down the drain. You will need to order a pair and pay again for shipping...
> 
> I'll built a power cord which is much easier to handle ( literally ) than a multi strand headphone cable. No "micro soldering" involved  .


Not as difficult as some say. They're small, but since the pins are very accessible, it's actually easier than the hifimann and some of the lemos, IMO.


----------



## Canadian411

pinkled said:


> You could build any cable yourself....
> 
> 7n occ cost that much if you buy it in bulk, its closer to 2.00$ if you only buy a few feet.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yape, that's pretty much for the 1st timer  I've done that and had few cables/connectors ended up in trash. I had a practice with cheap cables before making the real cables.
 I am getting better everyday and built so far well over 30 cables including interconnects, iem, headphone cables etc.
  
 In a long run you will save money, but if you just need one, buy one with 4 pins xlr.
  
 I found HD800 is easier to solder than Shure/ue900 iem connectors <-- try that, ! that's a challenge 
  
*Note : Plussound sells $1/ft for UP OCC 7N grade cables, no need to buy in bulk, I think it's all sold out now but wait for the next batch.*


----------



## maclenltd

I'm most concerned with taming the sibilance of the HD800s.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Wires will not fix this. It's DAC , amp and source related. And if someone tells you to buy wires as it fixed it walk away. Also getting a so allied tube amp or warm amp is not the way either . The hd800 is detailed type headphone as such adjusting a little EQ is far better than changing amps and much cheaper too .
Al


----------



## koiloco

alrainbow said:


> Wires will not fix this. It's DAC , amp and source related. And if someone tells you to buy wires as it fixed it walk away. Also getting a so allied tube amp or warm amp is not the way either . The hd800 is detailed type headphone as such adjusting a little EQ is far better than changing amps and much cheaper too .
> Al


 

 +1.  I personally vote this to be your best post.


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> Wires will not fix this. It's DAC , amp and source related. And if someone tells you to buy wires as it fixed it walk away. Also getting a so allied tube amp or warm amp is not the way either . The hd800 is detailed type headphone as such adjusting a little EQ is far better than changing amps and much cheaper too .
> Al


 
  
 +1, For me it was a DAC. Cable = cosmetic enhancement.


----------



## PinkLed

maclenltd said:


> I'm most concerned with taming the sibilance of the HD800s.


 
 Whats your setup? Dac and amp wise?


----------



## maclenltd

V200 amp with built in 24/192 DAC. Playing all 24/88 and above FLAC from Foobar


----------



## PinkLed

maclenltd said:


> V200 amp with built in 24/192 DAC. Playing all 24/88 and above FLAC from Foobar


 
 If you are using a V800 DAC you could try using USB instead of optical if your setup is optical. A 5$ usb cable worth a try.
  
 If you are using your PC internal DAC, I would recommend getting a decent DAC over a new HP cable.


----------



## maclenltd

pinkled said:


> If you are using a V800 DAC you could try using USB instead of optical if your setup is optical. A 5$ usb cable worth a try.
> 
> If you are using your PC internal DAC, I would recommend getting a decent DAC over a new HP cable.



The updated V200 from Violectric USA have a 24/192 USB DAC built in, which is what I'm using. 
http://violectric-usa.com/headphone-amplifiers/hpa-v200


----------



## Canadian411

Do you guys mind which Audio Output do you use in FooBar ?
  
 WASAPI or DS ?


----------



## koiloco

canadian411 said:


> Do you guys mind which Audio Output do you use in FooBar ?
> 
> WASAPI or DS ?


 

 WASAPI for me.


----------



## PleasantSounds

canadian411 said:


> Do you guys mind which Audio Output do you use in FooBar ?
> 
> WASAPI or DS ?


 
  
 WASAPI, in event mode if it works on your DAC.
 If your DAC supports ASIO, it's also worth a try.


----------



## sathyam

Yes. AISO is much better, if your DAC supports it.


----------



## LugBug1

canadian411 said:


> Do you guys mind which Audio Output do you use in FooBar ?
> 
> WASAPI or DS ?


 
 Basically, whichever one works best for you. Some have probs with wasapi, so if you are using Vista or later then DS on full volume is bit-perfect as well.


----------



## kkcc

sathyam said:


> Yes. AISO is much better, if your DAC supports it.




Always ASIO for me too. Any decent DAC would support this. Vastly more transparent than either wasapi or ds. If just between these two, I find wasapi better.


----------



## kkcc

icebear said:


> I am very happy with my custom HD800 Vanquish (balanced) from Trevor at Norne Audio  .
> See details in the Norne cable thread here :
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/606500/norne-audio-was-norse-audio-feedback-impression-thread




I love my cables from Trevor too. Got a Reign24 for my LCD3 and norn 2 for hd800. Both with 4pin xlr balance. IMO Norne Audio gave me the best purchase experience and value for any of my cable purchase. Really beautifully made and quick turnaround.

But as Al said, I also find dac/amp/tube rolling has much more effort on tamimg the hd800 than cables.


----------



## Frank I

I been really enjoying the Heimdall 11 on the HD800. The Chord Hugo also has stepped up the performance and is synergistic with the HD800.


----------



## christian u

icebear said:


> As long as it is not Chris Botti
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well said.
 See this photo from the ''After Silence'' session, live in the studio, minimalist ''old fashioned'' mic technique,and a passionate technician, in my opinion a spectacular result.



> Microphones:
> Main system: Schoeps MK5 AB
> Spot mic's: Neumann KM84, Neumann TLM170, Neumann U47, Van Medevoort C1000
> Micpre's: RME Micstacy (Analog > MADI)
> ...


----------



## drez

canadian411 said:


> Do you guys mind which Audio Output do you use in FooBar ?
> 
> WASAPI or DS ?


 
  
 Wasapi ASIO or KS, take your pick.  Just not DS as this is not bitperfect.  I prefer KS in my system but this is going pretty far into HiFi voodoo and risks derailing this thread.


----------



## Mahdi8

Portable set-up eye candy. I'm still burning in the cables but it gave me a great first impression. This setup consist of Fiio X5 -> Norse Draug Interconnect -> Ray Samuel Intruder balanced amp -> norse draug alo to balanced adapter -> draug balanced Hd800 Cable -. HD800.
  
 by far this is the best portable (actually more transportable) setup I have heard it actually edges close sonically to my Audio GD Dac19 (PCM1704UK) tandem with a bottlehead crack + speedball.


----------



## MickeyVee

^^ Nice setup. For casual listening, I run my HD800 directly out of the X5 and it's not too bad.  Bass is a little loose and not as well controlled as with a desktop amp but it sure is listenable.


----------



## MattTCG

I've officially moved over the (not so) dark side....haha. Got this beast in just this morning. I guess now I'll ask for amp recommendations. Currently will be using the crack. But for now I'm on the lyr as a mod with the crack went bad and it may be a while before I have it functional again.


----------



## MattTCG

Beauty shot.


----------



## Frank I

Looks fantastic. Glad you have the headphone you wanted . It is my go to headphone for reviews Matt


----------



## sathyam

I 





matttcg said:


> I've officially moved over the (not so) dark side....haha. Got this beast in just this morning. I guess now I'll ask for amp recommendations. Currently will be using the crack. But for now I'm on the lyr as a mod with the crack went bad and it may be a while before I have it functional again.




I love it with the Taurus Mk2 & Vega.


----------



## icebear

matttcg said:


> I've officially moved over the (not so) dark side....haha. Got this beast in just this morning. I guess now I'll ask for amp recommendations. Currently will be using the crack. But for now I'm on the lyr as a mod with the crack went bad and it may be a while before I have it functional again.


 

 You should start reading over here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 :
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/632948/the-headamp-gs-x-and-gs-x-mk2-thread


----------



## MattTCG

I've already got to hear the hd800/gs x mk2 combo and found it to be tremendous. I'll have to consider the amp carefully though, as the sticker price is a bit of a shocker. It will be interesting to see how well the crack does with the 800 as soon as I have it going again.


----------



## magiccabbage

matttcg said:


> I've already got to hear the hd800/gs x mk2 combo and found it to be tremendous. I'll have to consider the amp carefully though, as the sticker price is a bit of a shocker. It will be interesting to see how well the crack does with the 800 as soon as I have it going again.


 
 Great to see you over hear on this thread with the best headphone out there (not that i've heard them all). You must be chuffed. When I got my HD800 i did a marathon 15 hour session (with breaks of course) congrats - 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What tracks have you got lined up ..... do tell. You are into vintage receivers i think? Whats it like outta one of those. 
  
  
  
 I nearly bought a GSX MK 2 myself for HD800 but decided on the DNA Stratus in the end. My Stratus will arrive in September and I cannot wait. It will be a bit more expensive than the GSX because i plan on getting tube upgrades by the time it arrives. Have you heard the Stratus?


----------



## MattTCG

I have a nice collection of hi-res music that I've got cued up for the hd800. Lyr and BHC for amps ATM. I'll have to wait and see about the amp upgrade. There is a huge difference between the gs x and the lyr. IMO the lyr is not that great a pairing.


----------



## Sorrodje

matttcg said:


> IMO the lyr is not that great a pairing.


 
  
 The Crack would be maybe a better friend and a good reference point before any other purchase IMO .


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Welcome to the club, Matt!!

Glad to see you around these parts. I went through a lot of searching for an amp for the 800's as I did not like them with the Crack. I ended up with a Stratus and I haven't looked back!


----------



## whirlwind

matttcg said:


> Beauty shot.


 

 Congrats Matt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 These cans are incredible, imo


----------



## MickeyVee

Actually, Lr and Crack are not a bad place to start.. I started my HD800 journey with the Lyr and some Amperex OG's and have heard the HD800 with the Crack and some decent tubes.  Mind you, moved on pretty quickly but mostly due to comments here.
 Break them in, get used to the sound and then take it from there.. most of all, Enjoy!!


----------



## MattTCG

bigfatpaulie said:


> Welcome to the club, Matt!!
> 
> Glad to see you around these parts. I went through a lot of searching for an amp for the 800's as I did not like them with the Crack. I ended up with a Stratus and I haven't looked back!


 
  
  


whirlwind said:


> Congrats Matt
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks guys. I've been off the charts excited for these since I heard them on the gs x mk2. They never really struck the right chord with me till that day. Now I know what potential they have. Any burn in required or are these good to go out of the box (not trying to start a debate just curious).


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I have heard the famous hd800 On many amps from exotic names to home grown speaker amp types. For the money the hdvd600. Is a fine place to start and most likely stop. 
It's just silver box with no tubes glowing . It's kinda dumb looking and doesn't fit on a shelf Easy either. So in looks it is not cool in my book. But the sound is remarkably neutral 
And has a level of detail and if driven by a world class dac it is as good as any other so called world class amp or headphone . Including the whole stax line . AS many here post about stuff they have heard it's owning or atleast having something for a few weeks that really tells a better tail . Now add to this the fact of just who senn is and the amount of reasearch and development that goes into there products. As any of the named brands we all read about I wonder just how much they have done or even know that makes them 
Better than senn . So as I own many of the so called exotic amps it's still the hdvd600 witha BAL cable imusenthem evaluate new devices. 
So my vote is the hdvd600. 
Al


----------



## bigfatpaulie

I personally foud that they needed quite a bit of burn in.


----------



## pearljam50000

pearljam50000 said:


> So...
> HD800=analytical\technical
> K812=musical


 
 "as far as I can tell, the k812 is both more analytical and musical than the hd800. Go read some reviews on them."
  
 Straight from the K812 thread...what do you think? is he right?


----------



## Zoom25

Congrats on the HD800 Matt. Mind taking a pic of it on the room stand? I might consider it again in the future.
  
 Enjoy your HD800


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> "as far as I can tell, the k812 is both more *analytical* and *musical* than the hd800. Go read some reviews on them."
> 
> Straight from the K812 thread...what do you think? is he right?


 
  
 Why do these two have to mutually exclusive?


----------



## pearljam50000

I meant , is he right that the K812 is better than HD800?
 (Sorry my english is not 100%, so i'm not sure what you meant)


----------



## magiccabbage

matttcg said:


> Thanks guys. I've been off the charts excited for these since I heard them on the gs x mk2. They never really struck the right chord with me till that day. Now I know what potential they have. Any burn in required or are these good to go out of the box (not trying to start a debate just curious).


 
 they do improve with burn in but still sound amazing just out of the box.


----------



## nephilim32

Yes the





magiccabbage said:


> they do improve with burn in but still sound amazing just out of the box.




Yes they do improve. They smooth out a bit and are a bit less grainy in some areas. Every. However, still beautiful out of the box. Enjoy. They are really something special. Pairing them with an ARCAM irDAC makes them even better! You'll be amazed.


----------



## lin0003

magiccabbage said:


> they do improve with burn in but still sound amazing just out of the box.


 
 +1
  
 My basically new one sounds awesome!


----------



## SilverEars

Can  you guys list me Best to worst amps ranking for the HD800 that you guys have tried?  Where does Beta 22 stand?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Amps that I tested and were good. 
Woo audio wa 22 all tube upgrades 
Woo audio WA5 all tube upgrades 
Krell kav 400 xi 
DNA stratus 
Senn hdvd800 as an amp 
Audio gd ref 10.32
Audio gd M9 

Al


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> Amps that I tested and were good.
> Woo audio wa 22 all tube upgrades
> Woo audio WA5 all tube upgrades
> Krell kav 400 xi
> ...


 
 Funny how you like the WA22 so much. Did you have stratus and Wa22 side by side? Maybe I asked you that already. Was the stratus maxed?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

No they are not in any order sorry. My fave is a toss up of the wa5 and senn hdvd800


----------



## ALRAINBOW

magiccabbage said:


> Funny how you like the WA22 so much. Did you have stratus and Wa22 side by side? Maybe I asked you that already. Was the stratus maxed?



The straits ws cradons. It was really nice . It even sounded nice with the he6. But lost it at the top end with clipping . It had the EML tubes 
Al


----------



## kazsud

alrainbow said:


> No they are not in any order sorry. My fave is a toss up of the wa5 and senn hdvd800




What about gs-x? Sorry if I asked before


----------



## bearFNF

silverears said:


> Can  you guys list me Best to worst amps ranking for the HD800 that you guys have tried?  Where does Beta 22 stand?


 
 FWIW here is my best run at it (these are not all of the ones I have tried, just the ones I have a better memory of):
  
 GS-X MKII (wow this was good, added a new level of bass impact)
 Ragnarok (prototype, this was also very nice, some here added a new level of impact)
 Taboo MKIII (my current main amp, the two above are very nice but I already had this one)
 Vali (currently own)
 WA7 w/WA7tp
 ----------------below this line something seemed missing to me---------------------
 Crack w/speedball (might have been a source issue)
 V200
 HDVD800
 Asgard 2 (currently own, serving as pre-amp)
 _____________below this line was not acceptable to me -----------------------
 HDVD600
 WA22 (stock tubes)
 Magni (currently on a shelf gathering dust)


----------



## lin0003

bearfnf said:


> FWIW here is my best run at it (these are not all of the ones I have tried, just the ones I have a better memory of):
> 
> GS-X MKII (wow this was good, added a new level of bass impact)
> Ragnarok (prototype, this was also very nice, some here added a new level of impact)
> ...


 
 Vali better than the HDVD800?


----------



## punit

silverears said:


> Can  you guys list me Best to worst amps ranking for the HD800 that you guys have tried?  Where does Beta 22 stand?


 
*Amazing*
 WA22 (with Maxed out tubes , these are even better than the upgrades Woo offers)
 AGD M9
  
*Very Good*
 Bottlehead Crack with Speedball (with GEC 6AS7G / WE421A)
  
*Good*
 Woo WA6
 Darkvoice 336SE
  
*Bad / Average*
 Schiit Lyr
 Meier Classic
  
 Above is based on my personal preference. YMMV. Waiting for my Glenn Custom OTL, which I am told is even better than WA22 with the HD 800.


----------



## 62ohm

bearfnf said:


> FWIW here is my best run at it (these are not all of the ones I have tried, just the ones I have a better memory of):
> 
> GS-X MKII (wow this was good, added a new level of bass impact)
> Ragnarok (prototype, this was also very nice, some here added a new level of impact)
> ...


 
  
 May I ask what do you think is missing from the V200 / HDVA 600?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

kazsud said:


> What about gs-x? Sorry if I asked before




If that is a HEADAMP it's really good. But I am waiting about 14 months now for my BHSE. and the truth is I will never recommend anyone to wait that long for a device. It's just really unreasonable .
Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

bearfnf said:


> FWIW here is my best run at it (these are not all of the ones I have tried, just the ones I have a better memory of):
> 
> GS-X MKII (wow this was good, added a new level of bass impact)
> Ragnarok (prototype, this was also very nice, some here added a new level of impact)
> ...




It's early and I just woke up so maybe I am misunderstanding something. 
But are you rating the woo WA 7 better than the amps listed below. As in better than the wa22 or senn Amps. 

Also why did you give the hdvd600 and 800 different sound ratings. They are the same amp. ????
Now I am one who does beleave in personnel preference but just how long did you listen to any of the amps you have posted about. ?? 
Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

punit said:


> *Amazing*
> 
> WA22 (with Maxed out tubes , these are even better than the upgrades Woo offers)
> AGD M9
> ...




I am totally confused in the list he has made. I need more coffee or may some crack to understand this list hahahaha. 

Al


----------



## punit

What's confusing about the list AL?


----------



## whirlwind

I have been thinking about getting one of Glenn's amps for my HD800
  
 Can some people compare it to some other amps they have heard with the HD800
  
 Thanks for any help.
  
 I have been in touch with Glenn and he seems like a great gentlemen


----------



## ALRAINBOW

No not yours the other guy that did not like the woo WA22. Your views I always understand. 
Al


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> If that is a HEADAMP it's really good. But I am waiting about 1 1/2 years now for my BHSE. and the truth is I will never recommend anyone to wait that long for a device. It's just really unreasonable .
> Al


 
  
 Ouch, 1.5 years !, I will never recommend too, imagine if you have to repair, waiting time will be what ? double/triple. ? someone should know.


----------



## lin0003

Wow, I just tried the HD800 from my S3 unamped and they actually sounded very nice. I expected them to sound really bad, but that was not the case at all. The whole sound is somewhat unfocussed and blurry but still extremely impressive.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

canadian411 said:


> Ouch, 1.5 years !, I will never recommend too, imagine if you have to repair, waiting time will be what ? double/triple. ? someone should know.




Sorry I misquoted its about a 14 months. Not 16 sorry. I have heard it and its nice. But I do have a woo Wes with all,the tubes upgraded . In the end I might just sell,it as new when I get it. 
Anyway if it worker to break I do not think you would wait very long. As he does have a very good reputation in this business. I just would never wait this long for anything again. 
Al


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> Sorry I misquoted its about a 14 months. Not 16 sorry. I have heard it and its nice. But I do have a woo Wes with all,the tubes upgraded . In the end I might just sell,it as new when I get it.
> Anyway if it worker to break I do not think you would wait very long. As he does have a very good reputation in this business. I just would never wait this long for anything again.
> Al


 
  
 Haha, 14 or 16 same pain. I feel for ya.


----------



## magiccabbage

canadian411 said:


> Haha, 14 or 16 same pain. I feel for ya.


 
 since when is 16 months a year and a half. sure Al meant 18


----------



## punit

Al is a contractor, when he tells a customer a Job will get done in 16 months , he actually means year & half


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Al. Is having a very confusing day so far. 
I think I need to wake the F Up before posting anymore. 
Hahahaha


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Lmao. No actually I am the guy done really fast so I get paid faster. 
But I do get your point funny 
Al


----------



## kkcc

alrainbow said:


> No not yours the other guy that did not like the woo WA22. Your views I always understand.
> Al




For the wa22, IMO even more so than the tubes, I think a transparent balanced DAC also makes hd800 much better sounding than using the rca SE line in. For the tubes, I find even just replacing the 6080 power tubes will give you great improvement. Listening to stock tube paired with a poor SE DAC could be unimpressive...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I agree the wa 22 must be used in balance mode 
To sound the best. Anyone who uses it in SE has no idea how much they are loosing 
Al


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> I agree the wa 22 must be used in balance mode
> To sound the best. Anyone who uses it in SE has no idea how much they are loosing
> Al


 
 Maybe Dubsteps girls impressions were in single ended. I remember she didn't really like it too much even though she had the best tubes possible. If I remember correctly she said that is was a little lean in the lower registers which is one of the reasons that I was put off getting it.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Dubstep also used the HE6 with it. So I am not so sure about any of it.


----------



## Canadian411

magiccabbage said:


> since when is 16 months a year and a half. sure Al meant 18


 
 Haha, caught it good !, for us 1 month waiting feels like 1 year.


----------



## kkcc

alrainbow said:


> Dubstep also used the HE6 with it. So I am not so sure about any of it.




I recall Dubstep preferred wa2 (single ended) over wa22 as wa2 has more bass and is a better value... with Woo personally I much preferred wa22 balanced, and also over wa5le (don't remember what tube it had when I demo) with hd800.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

A big difrence in opinions like this is why reviews and even our own 
Subjective views just make no sense some times. 
I can say things that others say the opposite 
My first thought is they must be wrong. But it's not that simple sometimes. 
A better approach is find people who share your thoughts and bounce off if them 
This works much better for me. 
Al


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> A big difrence in opinions like this is why reviews and even our own
> Subjective views just make no sense some times.
> I can say things that others say the opposite
> My first thought is they must be wrong. But it's not that simple sometimes.
> ...


 
 I agree. It does take time to find people who like the same sound signature and also listen to the same kind of music. When I first joined headfi I always gravitated towards SQ with beefy bass and had taking advice from anyone and everyone regardless of what they listened to. Now I tend to prefer a more detailed but neutral sound. I took me a long time to realize that the bass was getting in the way of the music. I think every cheap system that I grew up with had over accentuated bass and I would always pick the more bassy gear over everything else -thinking it was better. 
  
 When DG said it was lean (WA22) - I was putt off by that, but because she has a completely different taste to me and the fact that I don't care for bass heavy gear anymore is making me think that I have been a bit harsh on the WA22. 
  
 Have you heard the Zana Duex Al? apparently the WA22 sounds closer to that than it does the WA2
  
  
  
 I would like to hear some WA22 vs DNA stratus impressions - that would be interesting.


----------



## OldSkool

I haven't heard the WA22 but I can attest that upgrading the stock WA2 with the 5998 power tubes raises the SQ to another level.

Oh yes.


----------



## koiloco

oldskool said:


> I haven't heard the WA22 but I can attest that upgrading the stock WA2 with the 5998 power tubes raises the SQ to another level.
> 
> Oh yes.


 

 Huge difference on WA22 with upgraded tubes!  Night and day, I would say.


----------



## kazsud

oldskool said:


> I haven't heard the WA22 but I can attest that upgrading the stock WA2 with the 5998 power tubes raises the SQ to another level.
> 
> Oh yes.


 

 +1


----------



## nephilim32

punit said:


> *Amazing*
> 
> WA22 (with Maxed out tubes , these are even better than the upgrades Woo offers)
> AGD M9
> ...




For Silver Ears response. I've tested the HD 800's with the Burson Solist SL and that works absolutely beautiful. You get a nice balanced sound with tight Bass while every little bit of the 800's dynamics are maxed out. The soloist is in short, a wonderful pairing. However, I recommend replacing the stock AC power cord and getting a quality power line conditioner that supports LiFT and EVS technologies. The FURMAN SPT 8D is wonderful and ensures your gear will get clean power, and PANGEA makes great AC power cords. Get one that has PCOCC copper (with LITZ) and a 12 AWG because it can support a ton of insulation and conductors. Very very clean. It will improve your Burson's sound quality....tighter bass, focused dynamics and of course that nice pitch black background. 

Another option is using the OPAMP that is in your AVR receiver. I have a Harman Kardon and that receiver/amp is quite good with the HD's and you can really maximize the bass levels the HD 800's can support cleanly; however with that OPAMP you get a bit more white noise background and the sound is not as tight and balanced as with the Burson. It's good If you have the right DAC (I use ARCAM) but paired with dedicated SS is a more audiophile grade. 
These are my findings and experience so far. Hope it helps. 
Oh one last thing. If the HD 800's treble and and sibilance is a little too weighty I'd opt for a cable upgrade. Toxic Cables (Copper Venom OCC) seems to give the most improvement for this matter. Depending on your chain of sound you can get a 7-10% increase in sound quality and treble smoothing with that cable. Happy listening.


----------



## LugBug1

Congrats Matt and welcome buddy


----------



## MattTCG

lugbug1 said:


> Congrats Matt and welcome buddy


 
  
 Thank you kindly. I'm very happy to be here.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

You have reached the level of endgame status in headphones 
Now it's DAC and amps 
Enjoy 
Al


----------



## Fearless1

lugbug1 said:


> Congrats Matt and welcome buddy


 

 +1,


----------



## bearFNF

The amps I listed were ones that I have listened to numerous times at various meets, expos, visits to vendors, and in home.  I have listened to many many other amps, but did not include them as I felt they either did not need to be mentioned in reference to HD800's or I have not had enough time with them to make a clear decision in my mind about them. I also excluded some of the portable amps that I think work well with HD800's.  I only listed amps that I used my own HD800's w/'Q' French silk cable on it balanced where possible.  The WA22 (the three times I heard it) was with stock tubes so I will try to find one at the next opportunity that has upgraded tubes in it.
  
 Quote:


lin0003 said:


> Vali better than the HDVD800?


 
 In my opinion, yes, this is with the Vali on my rig at home vs. the three or so times I heard the HDVD800/600 at meets and expos.  When I heard the Vali at CanJam I was very impressed, more so with it than with Sennheiser's set-up at the show.
  


62ohm said:


> May I ask what do you think is missing from the V200 / HDVA 600?


 
 Can't really put it in words, I guess, it just did not have the impact on me that the others did.  To be fair the V200 listening was limited but I did try it on three different occasions on different set-ups and different meets/Expos.  It just did not leave me with that "Oh, that's good" feeling, it was, to me ''flat' maybe??
  


alrainbow said:


> It's early and I just woke up so maybe I am misunderstanding something.
> But are you rating the woo WA 7 better than the amps listed below. As in better than the wa22 or senn Amps.
> 
> Also why did you give the hdvd600 and 800 different sound ratings. They are the same amp. ????
> ...


 
 Yes, this is my _*subjective*_ ranking, taking into account what I remember for the sound and the impression these amps left me with after auditioning them (some for extended listening sessions but not all).
 I listened to the HDVD600 and 800 on four separate occasions (meets/expos). The ranking is, as I said above, my memory of the impression I was left with, taking all those sessions into account. It does not matter if they have the same specs or not, as it is what I remember and the impression they left me with that placed them where they are on my list.   This is IMHO, YOMV.
  


alrainbow said:


> A big difrence in opinions like this is why reviews and even our own
> Subjective views just make no sense some times.
> I can say things that others say the opposite
> My first thought is they must be wrong. But it's not that simple sometimes.
> ...


 
 Here you have hit the nail on the head, I agree totally.  The rank I posted is purely how I would list them per my tastes and priorities.  It is up to each of us to decide how closely we want to follow others impressions or recommendations.
 cheers


----------



## koiloco

matttcg said:


> Thank you kindly. I'm very happy to be here.


 

 Wait wait, you finally decided to go with HD800?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Gratz.  No neck pain.  Guaranteed!
  
 I'll tell you this.  After almost 2 months of not listening to HP at all, last nite i put both my HD800 and HE500 back on and guess what?  I had the HE500 on for about 10 minutes.  The rest of the nite was HD800.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am thinking ... thinking...


----------



## bearFNF

koiloco said:


> I'll tell you this.  After almost 2 months of not listening to HP at all, last nite i put both my HD800 and HE500 back on and guess what?  I had the HE500 on for about 10 minutes.  The rest of the nite was HD800.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Same thoughts I am having WRT the HE500, I think...and my HD650's...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




??


----------



## ALRAINBOW

bearfnf said:


> In my opinion, yes, this is with the Vali on my rig at home vs. the three or so times I heard the HDVD800/600 at meets and expos.  When I heard the Vali at CanJam I was very impressed, more so with it than with Sennheiser's set-up at the show.
> 
> Can't really put it in words, I guess, it just did not have the impact on me that the others did.  To be fair the V200 listening was limited but I did try it on three different occasions on different set-ups and different meets/Expos.  It just did not leave me with that "Oh, that's good" feeling, it was, to me ''flat' maybe??
> 
> ...




Good reply. Next time do try the woo WA 22 in full banalce even if stock tubes. The amp must be used in balance. Now upgraded tubes is a lot better but it is pretty good stock. 
Al


----------



## Fearless1

koiloco said:


> I'll tell you this.  After almost 2 months of not listening to HP at all, last nite i put both my HD800 and HE500 back on and guess what?  I had the HE500 on for about 10 minutes.  The rest of the nite was HD800.


 
 Same.


----------



## MattTCG

I'm hearing balanced pays big dividends with the 800...?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

No this is not true with any headphone. It is true with some amps. Buying nice wires. Is a pride of ownership thing. As it does make shuttle changes it does make a big difference in looks and the feeling of ownership. 
Al


----------



## preproman

matttcg said:


> I'm hearing balanced pays big dividends with the 800...?


 
  
 Don't really know about that...  Some of the EC amps are SE.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

You go man !!!!! 
Al


----------



## MattTCG

Duke Ellington: Concert in the Virgin Island 24/192...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (wow)


----------



## BobG55

fearless1 said:


> lugbug1 said:
> 
> 
> > Congrats Matt and welcome buddy
> ...


 
 +2 Matt you de Man


----------



## skeptic

magiccabbage said:


> Have you heard the Zana Duex Al? apparently the WA22 sounds closer to that than it does the WA2




If you don't mind a third party opinion - I've heard these three in rapid succession, and while the wa22 is definitely more dynamic and resolving than the woo otl's, it still isn't as fast and detailed sounding as a Zana. It is about what you would expect from a premium transformer coupled woo amp. I'd hesitate to say that it is closer to a zana than the w2 in signature, but it is definitely somewhere in the middle. Note that as a balanced (push pull) amp, the wa22 has higher power but also double the output impedance of a single ended design, so bass is actually going to be slower with more bloom when you run it that way. Noise and distortion (excluding common mode) will also be higher.

I personally prefer the mainline over all three of these as an ideal match for hd800s (to my ears), but they are certainly all fine amps - so identifying and satisfying your preferences becomes the trick.


----------



## magiccabbage

skeptic said:


> If you don't mind a third party opinion - I've heard these three in rapid succession, and while the wa22 is definitely more dynamic and resolving than the woo otl's, it still isn't as fast and detailed sounding as a Zana. It is about what you would expect from a premium transformer coupled woo amp. I'd hesitate to say that it is closer to a zana than the w2 in signature, but it is definitely somewhere in the middle. Note that as a balanced (push pull) amp, the wa22 has higher power but also double the output impedance of a single ended design, so bass is actually going to be slower with more bloom when you run it that way. Noise and distortion (excluding common mode) will also be higher.
> 
> I personally prefer the mainline over all three of these as an ideal match for hd800s (to my ears), but they are certainly all fine amps - so identifying and satisfying your preferences becomes the trick.


 
 I see you built your mainline yourself - do you have pictures of the build. Maybe send a link or something. I would be interested to see that build in progress because I plan on building maybe the bottlehead myself this year.


----------



## skeptic

magiccabbage said:


> I see you built your mainline yourself - do you have pictures of the build. Maybe send a link or something. I would be interested to see that build in progress because I plan on building maybe the bottlehead myself this year.


 
  
 Absolutely!  I'll shoot you a PM with links.


----------



## Dionysus

The HD800 Synergy is very good with the Vali amp especially for the price of entry on the Schitt Vali amp. 
Buy IMHO not a chance in hell you could convince me that it sounds better than the HDVD800, and I've own both especially if you play the HDVD800 balanced, it's not even close.


----------



## 62ohm

What do you think about the BHA-1 compared to HDVD800 / HDVA600?


----------



## koiloco

matttcg said:


> I'm hearing balanced pays big dividends with the 800...?


 
 For WA22, with balanced input, hooking the HD800 balanced vs SE to the amp = no difference.  Not sure about other amps. I can't comment.  Some people will say/believe balanced = better but i am not a member of that group.


----------



## kkcc

koiloco said:


> For WA22, with balanced input, hooking the HD800 balanced vs SE to the amp = no difference.  Not sure about other amps. I can't comment.  Some people will say/believe balanced = better but i am not a member of that group.




Yes, the key for WA22 is to use the balanced *inputs* from a balanced DAC. It don't matter much (if at all) whether you use a 4pin xlr, a pair of 3pin xlr, or 6.35 terminated cables with your HD800.

However, with HDVD800 there is material difference of the sound form it's SE vs balanced outputs. I'm sure different amps would be different in whether using balanced output to HD800 is advantageous.


----------



## Rayzilla

magiccabbage said:


> ... Now I tend to prefer a more detailed but neutral sound. I took me a long time to realize that the bass was getting in the way of the music. I think every cheap system that I grew up with had over accentuated bass and I would always pick the more bassy gear over everything else -thinking it was better...


 
 Phew... finally caught up on this thread. Now I can start commenting on real time instead of holding off because I was always about 10 pages back and out of topic.
  
 I had similar tendencies when I started into this hobby, although I also knew early on that wanted detail too. But still, I thought that bass ruled over everything else. So when I thought about my endgame headphone, I thought there was nothing else to consider than the TH-900. When I went to test them side by side, I reminded myself to think about long term and long listening sessions. I thought that TH-900 was a little too bass heavy and during long listening sessions it would become fatiguing. So I went with the HD800 and do not regret this decision one bit.


----------



## whirlwind

Is anybody here using the HD800 with one of Glenn's amps ?
  
 I would be very interested to know your impressions as this is one amp that has my interest.


----------



## Rayzilla

I haven't really tried too many different dacs or amps with mine. I would really like to do a comparison of my set up with one of the commonly used set ups described here so that I can get a perspective of mine. My home set up is MacBook Air (USB to) Line Magnetic 502CA dac (RCA to) Line Magnetic Mini 218IA (to) HD800 or Dynaudio DM 2/7. Here is a link to a picture of my amp. http://www.head-fi.org/t/680776/line-magnetic-218-mini/0_20#post_10638604

Would anyone here have any idea what my set up would be like compared to the ones mentioned on this thread?


----------



## magiccabbage

whirlwind said:


> Is anybody here using the HD800 with one of Glenn's amps ?
> 
> I would be very interested to know your impressions as this is one amp that has my interest.


 
 Dubstep Girl had it with her HD800 (the OTL) and loved it but she had some amazing tubes. If I remember correctly she preferred it to the Wa22 (maybe that might cause controversy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) 
  
 Suppose to be an amazing amp. I will  buy one eventually. I was supposed to buy the OTL but changed my mind. I want to get something a bit more exotic like maybe - a speaker headphone 300b in the future with Lundahl transformers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




! Time will tell.


----------



## punit

magiccabbage said:


> Dubstep Girl has it with her HD800 (the OTL) and loved it but she had some amazing tubes. If I remember correctly she preferred it to the Wa22 (maybe that might cause controversy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 DG had it for a short while on loan. jc9394 has it with HD 800. & Yes, it is supposed to be "better" than WA22. Supposed to have smaller sound stage than WA22 but more dynamic. Will update when I get mine.....


----------



## magiccabbage

punit said:


> DG had it for a short while on loan. jc9394 has it with HD 800. & Yes, it is supposed to be "better" than WA22. Supposed to have smaller sound stage than WA22 but more dynamic. Will update when I get mine.....


 
 Oh, you are getting one. Nice.. congrats 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - are you going to be using HD800 primarily ? What tube types have you got in store?


----------



## punit

Yes, Primarily for HD 800 but Glenn said he will put in a switch so that I can use it with low impd phones as well (with certain tubes). It uses same tubes as WA22, so will use from my collection below :.
  
*Power:*
  

 WE421A
 TS 5998
 TS 7236
 GEC 6AS7G
 GEC 6080
 Mullard 6080
 Chatham 6080 WB Solid Graphite Plates
 Bendix 6080 WB Solid Graphite Plates
  
*Driver:*

 TS BGRP 6SNTGT
 TS 6SNTGT
 Sophia Elect. 6SN7
 Ken Rad VT231 6SN7GT Black Glass
 TS BP 6F8G
 National Union 6F8G
 Sylvania 6F8G
 Mullard CV 181
 Brimar CV1988
 RCA Red Base 5692
 Sylvania Bad Boy 6SN7GT (1952)
  
*Rectifier:*

 Sophia Elect. 274B
 Western Electric 422A
 Brimar (GEC) U52
 Mullard 5V4G (GZ32)
 Philips (Mullard) GZ34 (metal base)
 USAF 596
 EML 5U4G
 Cossor GZ37
 RCA 5U4G
 Philips 5R4GY


----------



## magiccabbage

punit said:


> Yes, Primarily for HD 800 but Glenn said he will put in a switch so that I can use it with low impd phones as well (with certain tubes). It uses same tubes as WA22, so will use from my collection below :.
> 
> *Power:*
> 
> ...


 
 It can also use a GEC U52 rectifier right ?


----------



## punit

Yes


----------



## kvtaco17

whirlwind said:


> Is anybody here using the HD800 with one of Glenn's amps ?
> 
> I would be very interested to know your impressions as this is one amp that has my interest.


 
 Yes!
  
 BUT I've already told you how I feel lol


----------



## LugBug1

kvtaco17 said:


> Yes!
> 
> BUT I've already told you how I feel lol


 
 Could this be a budding head-fi romance starting here??


----------



## kvtaco17

lugbug1 said:


> Could this be a budding head-fi romance starting here??


 
  
 Actually if you check this link it says quite the opposite
  
HERE


----------



## Eternal Phoenix

kvtaco17 said:


> Actually if you check this link it says quite the opposite
> 
> HERE


 
 Hmm, I think you'll find it just says the opposite. - no quite about it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (< mods - how can there be no HD800 specific BIGGRIN smiley!!)


----------



## kvtaco17

eternal phoenix said:


> Hmm, I think you'll find it just says the opposite. - no quite about it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Caught me! I added quite out of habit... I fail lol


----------



## Eternal Phoenix

kvtaco17 said:


> Caught me! I added quite out of habit... I fail lol


 
  
 Well, there's no issue with that, what I'm shocked by is the LACK! of a HD800 specific BIGGRIN, I mean c'mon it's a pretty damn up there 'phone...


----------



## LugBug1




----------



## kvtaco17

lugbug1 said:


>


 
 Better, closer, warmer!


----------



## Twangsta

Just paid up on a used lehman linear at the buy and sell section. Super nervous. Never bought stuff on a forum directly. 

Hope it's actually delivered. Can't wit to try this combo out. Fingers crossed.


----------



## whirlwind

magiccabbage said:


> Dubstep Girl has it with her HD800 (the OTL) and loved it but she had some amazing tubes. If I remember correctly she preferred it to the Wa22 (maybe that might cause controversy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks much....I may go for it.
  


kvtaco17 said:


> Yes!
> 
> BUT I've already told you how I feel lol


 
 Yes, I know you like it with the HD800 as well.....was just looking for more feedback...you know....more is better.


----------



## kvtaco17

whirlwind said:


> Thanks much....I may go for it.
> 
> Yes, I know you like it with the HD800 as well.....was just looking for more feedback...you know....more is better.


 
 More is always better lol


----------



## magiccabbage

whirlwind said:


> Thanks much....I may go for it.
> 
> Yes, I know you like it with the HD800 as well.....was just looking for more feedback...you know....more is better.


 
 I meant to say that DG had it not "has it" - i did edit my original post though


----------



## Problem

Just has my earpads for the HD800 after it was used slightly over a year. Can definitely that having new pads does change the sound sonically (in a good way).


----------



## lin0003

Hey guys, do you know whether the HD800 cable has 4 separate wires so that I can terminate them into a balanced XLR plug? Has anyone tried this before? Headroom seems to do it I think.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yes that is fine 
Al


----------



## bearFNF

lin0003 said:


> Hey guys, do you know whether the HD800 cable has 4 separate wires so that I can terminate them into a balanced XLR plug? Has anyone tried this before? Headroom seems to do it I think.


 
 yep it's four wires:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-appreciation-thread/6840#post_10057020
  
 He even used the cut off part and put the female on it for use as an adapter to 1/4" plug.


----------



## lin0003

Cheers guys, that really helped


----------



## Canadian411

lin0003 said:


> Cheers guys, that really helped


 
 Becareful !, use the multimeter and make sure which wire goes where.
  
 I just blew up my beyerdynamic T70 while experimenting with the voice coil. 
  
 That gives me an excuse to get either PS1000e or T5p soon


----------



## lin0003

canadian411 said:


> Becareful !, use the multimeter and make sure which wire goes where.
> 
> I just blew up my beyerdynamic T70 while experimenting with the voice coil.
> 
> That gives me an excuse to get either PS1000e or T5p soon


 
 Lol, sounds like you are happy you blew up your T70...


----------



## pearljam50000

How close is the HD800 to Stax 009 sound in terms of SQ?


----------



## lin0003

pearljam50000 said:


> How close is the HD800 to Stax 009 sound in terms of SQ?


 
 I've heard some people say the SR-009 is 10-20% better but it's really hard to say how much better unless you have heard it yourself. I haven't personally, so I can't really help.


----------



## kkcc

pearljam50000 said:


> How close is the HD800 to Stax 009 sound in terms of SQ?




This really depends a lot on the upstream pairing. I heard 009 with 727ta and much prefer hd800 on say my audio gd nfb28. Also heard 009 with woo wes stock tubes and still prefer hd800 with woo wa22 upgraded tubes. 

So my generic answer would be that for the same $$$, a hd800+amp combo would most likelybe better than a sr009 combo. But without any budget constraints, it would probably be a toss up depending on personal preferences.


----------



## sathyam

I am not sure about the SQ difference. But there is a very big price difference with Stax 009 setups costing from $7000-$12000. If you have that much money to burn, then it seems to be one of the best HP systems.

Of late, one headphone that reviewers seem to be comparing to Stax 009 is the Abyss AB-1266. It seems to have the best of HD800 (imaging) and the LCD-3 (Bass and easy to listen). It's of course $5495  and seems to need an Amp as powerful as the Taurus Mk2. I plan to borrow it for a while to see what all the fuss is about.

Personally, I have the HD800 and the LCD-3, which complement each other very well. HD800 for Orchestral and Big Band music and LCD-3 for all my other genres.


----------



## kkcc

sathyam said:


> I am not sure about the SQ difference. But there is a very big price difference with Stax 009 setups costing from $7000-$12000. If you have that much money to burn, then it seems to be one of the best HP systems.
> 
> Of late, one headphone that reviewers seem to be comparing to Stax 009 is the Abyss AB-1266. It seems to have the best of HD800 (imaging) and the LCD-3 (Bass and easy to listen). It's of course $5495  and seems to need an Amp as powerful as the Taurus Mk2. I plan to borrow it for a while to see what all the fuss is about.
> 
> Personally, I have the HD800 and the LCD-3, which complement each other very well. HD800 for Orchestral and Big Band music and LCD-3 for all my other genres.




Lol our posts are like seconds apart, and like you also, I am loving my hd800+lcd3 combo.


----------



## Crashem

pearljam50000 said:


> How close is the HD800 to Stax 009 sound in terms of SQ?




I have both setups. I don't think it is necessarily that one is obviously better than other. The sr009 measure better and probably are a bit better overall. But there is some kind of magic with sr009 in particular and electrostats in general where there is an effortlessness to the music. Hard to describe, but it feels somewhat like seeing a master musician who barely seems to be trying to play the most complicated piece. The hd800 or the abyss or any other top end headphone doesn't have that quality. The hd800 does however have this unnaturally large soundstage and instrument definition that the sr009 can't reproduce, although with some music (think rock), the holistic vibe of the music is lost while with other music (large ensemble pieces) that same soundstage is incredible and makes the hd800 the first choice. If I had to have one setup, it would be hi end electrostat setup. Live with high end electrostat for a couple of weeks and everything else will seem artificial and awkward to some extent or another.


----------



## drez

I think I have changed my mind about the Rabid Dawg mod (shelf liner version).  It sort of occurred to me that my system had a reached a stage where it was no longer bright, brittle or edgy, and that it might be worth returning my HD800 to stock.
  
 Now I tend to see the mod as more of a bandaid that a long term solution - in as much as it fixes the resonance at 6k or whatever, it holds the headphones back in other areas.  I think part of the problem was he size of the felt ring - this caused an unnatural bloom in the mid-bass, and a general warming of the tonal balance - in fact I wouldn't be surprised if much of the difference is down to frequency response.
  
 In any case - once your system is well behaved enough - any need for the mod is greatly reduced, in my case reduced to zero.  But if your system is on the keen side, and maybe lacking in refinement or control in the treble, then the mod can be a lifesaver.
  
 Funny thing is I was using exactly the same equipment when I found issue with the HD800 treble (my ears used to physically ache), pretty much only changing tweaks like equipment rack, cables, computer hardware/software - so either my brain has burned in over the past couple of years, or my system has actually changed substantially without swapping a single major component.  Shame there is no real way to verify this without any common landmark, but anyway.
  
 EDIT: overuse of punctuation.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

crashem said:


> I have both setups. I don't think it is necessarily that one is obviously better than other. The sr009 measure better and probably are a bit better overall. But there is some kind of magic with sr009 in particular and electrostats in general where there is an effortlessness to the music. Hard to describe, but it feels somewhat like seeing a master musician who barely seems to be trying to play the most complicated piece. The hd800 or the abyss or any other top end headphone doesn't have that quality. The hd800 does however have this unnaturally large soundstage and instrument definition that the sr009 can't reproduce, although with some music (think rock), the holistic vibe of the music is lost while with other music (large ensemble pieces) that same soundstage is incredible and makes the hd800 the first choice. If I had to have one setup, it would be hi end electrostat setup. Live with high end electrostat for a couple of weeks and everything else will seem artificial and awkward to some extent or another.




Crasmim is getting it perfect. Spoken from an owner not a listener for an hour. 
The stax 009 is just different but gives dentils that only my big speakers can give but lacks the body . The hd800 is more full of body and beyond that full ness is the HE 6 
The lcd3 are a bit of a disappointment for me as they are a bit receded in sound and slower than the hd800 even if I EQ them. The abysse info not own so only a listener and to me they are nit on my list to buy . As he said it's not better it's different. There are many categories to judge our headphones with and some just trade off for others .
Al


----------



## kkcc

alrainbow said:


> Crasmim is getting it perfect. Spoken from an owner not a listener for an hour.
> The stax 009 is just different but gives dentils that only my big speakers can give but lacks the body . The hd800 is more full of body and beyond that full ness is the HE 6
> The lcd3 are a bit of a disappointment for me as they are a bit receded in sound and slower than the hd800 even if I EQ them. The abysse info not own so only a listener and to me they are nit on my list to buy . *As he said it's not better it's different. There are many categories to judge our headphones with and some just trade off for others .*
> Al




I think this is so true. At this level it's all about side-grade and getting different flavors. The "solution" is to really own/try them all haha! Also, another real plus for me with headfi vs boxes is that I can own multiple systems and use them whenever I want without moving stuffs in and out of the warehouse or storage.


----------



## sathyam

Compared to the HD800, LCD-3s have a condensed head stage.

But when you use the HD800 with Treble heavy music, like Vivaldi's Four Seasons or Herbie Hancock's Head Hunters, it's very painful. At this point I find myself switching to the the LCD-3. I also switch to the LCD-3 when I need oodles of fast and punchy bass.

If you are listening to Symphonies (Mozart, Beethoven et al) or Big Band music (Duke Ellington, Oscar Peterson, et al), LCD-3 have a very condensed soundstage and you don't hear all the little details. But when you switch to the HD800, the transformation is stunning! You hear every little detail. Of course,as soon as you hear a forward sounding Violin or Piano high note, you get a headache and want to rip the HD800 off your ears 

That's been my personal experience with the two headphones complementing each other extremely well.


----------



## jsgraha

I like Max Richter version of Vivaldi Four Season very much. Both LCD-X and hd800 on my setup are really good, but much prefer hd800.

http://www.hdtracks.com/recomposed-by-max-richter-vivaldi-the-four-seasons

ATM, my guilty pleasure for hd800 actually is Iggy Azalea New Classic (Black Widow track)


----------



## Zoom25

jsgraha said:


> I like Max Richter version of Vivaldi Four Season very much. Both LCD-X and hd800 on my setup are really good, but much prefer hd800.
> 
> http://www.hdtracks.com/recomposed-by-max-richter-vivaldi-the-four-seasons
> 
> ATM, my guilty pleasure for hd800 actually is Iggy Azalea New Classic (Black Widow track)


----------



## Twangsta

jsgraha said:


> I like Max Richter version of Vivaldi Four Season very much. Both LCD-X and hd800 on my setup are really good, but much prefer hd800.
> 
> http://www.hdtracks.com/recomposed-by-max-richter-vivaldi-the-four-seasons
> 
> ATM, my guilty pleasure for hd800 actually is Iggy Azalea New Classic (Black Widow track)


 
 That's a gorgeous rewrite!
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Kyle 491

> But when you use the HD800 with Treble heavy music, like Vivaldi's Four Seasons or Herbie Hancock's Head Hunters, it's very painful. At this point I find myself switching to the the LCD-3.




Try Giuliano Carmignola's Venice Baroque Orchestra rendition of the Four Seasons. Very realistic and engaging performance on the HD800, with no fatigue.


----------



## MattTCG

jsgraha said:


> I like Max Richter version of Vivaldi Four Season very much. Both LCD-X and hd800 on my setup are really good, but much prefer hd800.
> 
> http://www.hdtracks.com/recomposed-by-max-richter-vivaldi-the-four-seasons
> 
> ATM, my guilty pleasure for hd800 actually is Iggy Azalea New Classic (Black Widow track)


 
  
 Very nice!! I'd like to see more hdtracks/hi-res suggestions that people enjoy with the hd800...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

kyle 491 said:


> Try Giuliano Carmignola's Venice Baroque Orchestra rendition of the Four Seasons. Very realistic and engaging performance on the HD800, with no fatigue.




It's pretty rare that the hd800 are as you describe and I have head hunters. It's either the DAC or the amp giving you this .
The amp I use often is the hdvd800 as an amp. It is a very neutral sound but my dacs pro trey the music in a way to not be harsh . But with that said you can tame it with a little negative EQ .
Al


----------



## PinkLed

Are there any headphones from what anyone has seen that go around the ear like the HD800s? They are by far the most comfortable headphones that I've tried for long listening (and short listening) since they put 0 pressure on your actual ear. Just wondering if anyone has found a headphone that accomplishes the same thing.


----------



## Eee Pee

The Senn 700s are even more comfortable in my opinion.  Take the larger diameter dispersion of softness™ of the 800 and make it smaller and softer, then that's the 700.
  
 That seems to be a consensus at meets I bring them to.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

eee pee said:


> The Senn 700s are even more comfortable in my opinion.  Take the larger diameter dispersion of softness™ of the 800 and make it smaller and softer, then that's the 700.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Now if only they sounded as good....I don't even find the 800s to be all that comfortable, though after owning them for a while, I have gotten quite a bit better at knowing how to put them on so they dont bother me as much. The 009s are still quite a bit more comfortable to me.


----------



## PinkLed

No other feature of headphone pads really matters to me in comfort besides touching the ear. I'm sure many of you know what I mean, that sore feeling on the ear after the pads have been pressing on it for a while. Wondering if any HP in the lower price ranges have similar pad size, not necessarily more comfortable, just bearable. The LCD2, even with the softer "pillow" like ear pads still hurt after a few hours. The HD700 pads don't touch the ear? They look much smaller.


----------



## Eee Pee

They don't touch my ear.  I'm a 6 foot 160 pound size.


----------



## kkcc

I guess we are a bit lost... I thought we either have on-ear headphones where the whole pad press against your ear:




Or around the ear type like LCD, HD800, etc. Not sure why you feel your lcd2 pad is pressing against your ears. I guess I can imagine it might if you have bigger than avg ears. Then it becomes a matter for finding headphone with big enough cups and narrow paddings so the "hole" in the middle is big enough to accommodate your ears. And hd800 is really the only one I can think of (even hd700 may be too small for you!?)


----------



## akhyar

pinkled said:


>


 
  
 Maybe Fostex TH600?
 They cost less than the HD800, and on my average size ear, the cups don't touch my ear lobes.


----------



## nephilim32

pinkled said:


> Are there any headphones from what anyone has seen that go around the ear like the HD800s? They are by far the most comfortable headphones that I've tried for long listening (and short listening) since they put 0 pressure on your actual ear. Just wondering if anyone has found a headphone that accomplishes the same thing.




Hey mr. King Crimson(great avatar) sadly I have not found anything helpful to your question cause the 800's are by far and away the most streamlined and focused pair of headphones for comfort and long listening. Best cans on the planet for me. However the AUDEZE LCD's I think can match the HD 800's comfort. They look pretty heavenly and less space-aged than the HD 800's.


----------



## MattTCG

Sorry, I found nothing about the lcd line to be remotely comfortable. YYMV


----------



## nephilim32

Rwally





matttcg said:


> Sorry, I found nothing about the lcd line to be remotely comfortable. YYMV
> [/
> 
> 
> Really? Oh too bad. Lol the ear cups look like a couple of nice leather mattresses surrounded around your ear.


----------



## akhyar

nephilim32 said:


> Rwally
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The weight and the clamp will be the deal breaker


----------



## ALRAINBOW

YYMV ?? The sound is what broke the deal for me. 
Al


----------



## bearFNF

Yeah, I am not a huge fan of the LCD's, LCD-x was better than the rest but not up to HD800 standards IMHO,  LCD-3 only got better when paired with the ragnarok, which is not available for the masses yet.  As far comfort alone, the LCD's are a few steps behind the HD800's, again IMO.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

They are for the laid back listing type. I cannot do it for long I keep thinking what I am missing. 
I took the hd800 on my vaca to NC 
The LCD 3 are home in the case


----------



## preproman

bearfnf said:


> Yeah, I am not a huge fan of the LCD's, LCD-x was better than the rest but not up to HD800 standards IMHO,  LCD-3 only got better when paired with the ragnarok, which is not available for the masses yet.  As far comfort alone, the LCD's are a few steps behind the HD800's, again IMO.


 
  
 You heard the LCD-3 (C) or (F) with the Ragnarok?  What did you think?


----------



## XVampireX

preproman said:


> You heard the LCD-3 (C) or (F) with the Ragnarok?  What did you think?


 
 See what kind of commentary we're looking for on the Ragnarok XD


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> They are for the laid back listing type. I cannot do it for long I keep thinking what I am missing.
> I took the hd800 on my vaca to NC
> The LCD 3 are home in the case




Lol true. Laid back listening at the hospital after the discomfort pain and neck injury lol.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Maybe good after a major heart attack also. Hahahaha.


----------



## bearFNF

preproman said:


> You heard the LCD-3 (C) or (F) with the Ragnarok?  What did you think?


 

 Well, not sure what you mean by (C) or (F), but it was the first time listening to the LCD-3 that they actually started to impress me.  As I recall (this was last October) they had better bass impact and separation, and seemed to me to have more energy...if that makes sense.  Still did not beat my HD800-s on the ragnarok but the gap was closed slightly, The LCD might have had more bass ?presence? but not better overall SQ.
  
 Okay looked up the C or F thing, not sure which one they were but it was last October at CanJam if that helps.  When did the "F" version come out?  Like I said not a fan of Audeze in general so have not been keeping up with their latest.


----------



## MattTCG

F version is Fazor and came out late 2013...December I believe. There is a serial number that indicates the beginning of Fazor. C is pre-fazor I assume. Or it could be Chocolicious.


----------



## Zoom25

F = Fazor 
  
 C = Classic?


----------



## OldSkool

On the LCD2's, just check the serial number. 54XXXXX is where the fazor change happened, late last December.
  
 IMO, the LCD2.3 (fazor) are a nice compliment to my HD800. The Senn is clearly the better can but I find the Audeze is more euphoric and is my "fun can". Luckily, I have found a tube combo in my WA2 that sounds great with either can, so no more switching tubes back and forth.


----------



## Jazic

I've been following this thread for awhile but I was wondering if anyone happened to have any good cases for theirs.
  
 I know pelican makes a great bomb proof version but for just carrying it and storing it I'd like something slimmer and easier to handle. 
  
 Any suggestions?


----------



## jh7000

I have been looking at this model for a while... but none of the reviewers have mentioned if it will hold a HD800 or not yet... but it looks like it would be big enough:
http://www.amazon.com/CASEBUDi-Headphone-Case-Extra-Large/dp/B00ENO322C


----------



## bearFNF

Jaben large Hippocase headphone case:
  
 See this post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-appreciation-thread/1635#post_9329673
  
 Have used it to go to expos and meets and it works great.
  


jazic said:


> I've been following this thread for awhile but I was wondering if anyone happened to have any good cases for theirs.
> 
> I know pelican makes a great bomb proof version but for just carrying it and storing it I'd like something slimmer and easier to handle.
> 
> Any suggestions?


----------



## MIKELAP

matttcg said:


> Very nice!! I'd like to see more hdtracks/hi-res suggestions that people enjoy with the hd800...


 
 One of the better sounding hires files i have .   http://www.hdtracks.com/there-s-a-time-134480


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Greet album I have the DSD download


----------



## MIKELAP

alrainbow said:


> Greet album I have the DSD download


 
 It is a great album some of the tunes are funny also that album always make me smile !


----------



## ALRAINBOW

A guy turned onto it. It pretty cool kinda preacher stuff but still really nice .
Al


----------



## MattTCG

Yep...this is a good one. I've had it since Frank I turned me on to it last year. The second track, Black Night, is one of my reference/test tracks. Oh that bass is just delicious.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Reg a ref cd meaning red book. I can highly recommend 
A count Basie disk. It's on Pablo records 
It's kansis city shout 
A pic of Basie on the cover 
It's has clarity and details with dynamics 
It also is great music with legendary people on it. 
Eddie clean head being one of them. Ina really good DAC the cymbal brushing a are just fantastic 
It's a must have to anyone. 
If someone wants I can list some DSD as well 
Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

This one. 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000000XJN?pc_redir=1404019118&robot_redir=1


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> Reg a ref cd meaning red book. I can highly recommend
> A count Basie disk. It's on Pablo records
> It's kansis city shout
> A pic of Basie on the cover
> ...


 
 Yes, I would appreciate that. Especially if you have any more recommendations of great sounding jazz albums.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Ok I am going out now. I will do something when I get back. 
I have learned to listen and like music I never would have liked before based in great SQ 
it opened up my genre plenty. I know do anything. 
If you like cat Stevens the DSD from acoustic sounds of tea for the tiller man is cool as well 
Post later. 
Al


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> Ok I am going out now. I will do something when I get back.
> I have learned to listen and like music I never would have liked before based in great SQ
> it opened up my genre plenty. I know do anything.
> If you like cat Stevens the DSD from acoustic sounds of tea for the tiller man is cool as well
> ...


 
 Make sure you bring the DAP player and your portable headphones Al.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yea I wish going shopping with the wife and kid. A little ciem action is just what I need but it's NOT going to happen 
Now hahahaha 
Nice thoughts though 
Al


----------



## nephilim32

mikelap said:


> One of the better sounding hires files i have .   http://www.hdtracks.com/there-s-a-time-134480




Oh yeah. HD tracks is a great site. I have remain in light in 24/96k. To be honest, 24/96 is my favourite bitstream resolution. I like 24/192k, but it doesn't sound as warm when running the file format through my DAC. Sometimes ultra HD files can sound a little too polished and not realistic.


----------



## MattTCG

nephilim32 said:


> Oh yeah. HD tracks is a great site. I have remain in light in 24/96k. To be honest, 24/96 is my favourite bitstream resolution. I like 24/192k, but it doesn't sound as warm when running the file format through my DAC. Sometimes ultra HD files can sound a little too polished and not realistic.


 
  
 In theory I would disagree with your logic. 24/192 should be closer to analogue and thus should sound closer to the original recording. But in reality, I agree with you. 24/96 just sounds more musical to my ears...certainly warmer. The differences are small but there IMHO.


----------



## LugBug1

For the first time in many years I now only own one headphone. Don't need any others. 
  
 In fact, I'd even go as far as to say - all other headphones are worthless. Kill all other headphones!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 All hail the mighty one!


----------



## MattTCG

lugbug1 said:


> For the first time in many years I now only own one headphone. Don't need any others.
> 
> In fact, I'd even go as far as to say - all other headphones are worthless. Kill all other headphones!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very nice sir. And what amp are you using?


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> Very nice sir. And what amp are you using?


 
 Oh everyone knows I'm a NAD man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 3225PE at the mo... In fact I'd go as far as to say - all other amps are wor.... etc


----------



## MattTCG

Oh yeah, forgot that. I've even looked on ebay for something that you suggested. Nothing yet. I'm hoping for a Craiglist score soon.


----------



## Sorrodje

lugbug1 said:


> For the first time in many years I now only own one headphone. Don't need any others.
> 
> In fact, I'd even go as far as to say - all other headphones are worthless. Kill all other headphones!!
> 
> ...


 
  
  




  
 I think I' m not far of the same point. I received a Beyerdynamic T1 Monday and I'm currently testing it but it will not stay at home for a long time.  My Ultrasone is gone and I've really no need of another headphone for my tastes and what I listen to usually.


----------



## PleasantSounds

As much as I love the HD800, every now and then I like to put other cans on just to appreciate the HD800s even more.


----------



## James-uk

pleasantsounds said:


> As much as I love the HD800, every now and then I like to put other cans on just to appreciate the HD800s even more.




Agreed. The more I listen to other headphones or speakers , the more apparent the gap in quality becomes.


----------



## James-uk

The only itch I have to 'upgrade' now is into stax land but that is a place I don't really want to go. It's a whole new level that my OCD can't cope with! Channel imbalance would literally drive me crazy.


----------



## Maxx134

lugbug1 said:


> For the first time in many years I now only own one headphone. Don't need any others.
> 
> In fact, I'd even go as far as to say - all other headphones are worthless. Kill all other headphones!! :veryevil:
> 
> All hail the mighty one!


You need the custom paint job site..

The placebo effect alone will boost your enjoyment!


----------



## Kheadfi

nephilim32 said:


> Oh yeah. HD tracks is a great site. I have remain in light in 24/96k. To be honest, 24/96 is my favourite bitstream resolution. I like 24/192k, but it doesn't sound as warm when running the file format through my DAC. Sometimes ultra HD files can sound a little too polished and not realistic.


 
 I have the same feeling.
 The Doug MacLeod download is fantastic.
 The Sound Liaison studio master downloads are all 24/96 except one,which is 24/88.2. I think they are the best sounding files I have got for the HD800 together with some of the Reference Recordings.The sound of their albums is quiet similar to the Doug MacLeod you mentioned.
 They all so give credit to the HD800 for being used for mixing and mastering. http://www.soundliaison.com/


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Buying stuff from hd tracks is hit and miss mostly 
The reason why it sounds better st 24/96 is because that's what it is really. 
They lie when they say it is above. I honestly do not buy from them anymore. 
Acoustic sounds blue note. Channel classics 
Native DSD. Opus3. All have real DSD or high res. 
the others lie at times. Also blue coast records 
It's a same we spend our money over and over on music and get ripped off. 
Al


----------



## Kheadfi

mikelap said:


> One of the better sounding hires files i have .   http://www.hdtracks.com/there-s-a-time-134480


 
 The Doug Macleod download is recorded in 24/176.2 it says so on the Reference Recordings website. And believe me, that is one good sounding download.!
 But it is true that HD tracks are not always clear about the original format. But I it seems to me they are starting to be more honest about it now.
 That is what I like so much about the Sound Liaison guys, they sell one format only, and that is the one to one copy of the studio master file.
 They did not even convert to flac until recently. (public demand?)
 And they credit the equipment used down to the last detail and describe the recording process as well.....see this youtube link;



> Sound Liaison, producing recordings available only in 24-bit/96kHz downloads that mirror the master recording. And man, are they ever sweet. I've seldom heard recordings that were so successful in both performance and sound aspects.'' Rad Bennett, SoundStage!
> The 9 pieces of music were performed live in the studio in front of a select audience.The musicians were placed in front of a stereo pair of microphones with additional spot microphones on each instrument. The musicians were playing without headphones, the reason being that we believe that when we get the musicians to play together in the same room, without headphones, it creates a number of musical and technical benefits:
> 
> As they are not ''separated'' by the headphones, the musicians, in order to hear each other are forced to create a natural and musical balance, a balance which is then easily captured by the main stereo pair of microphones. Because of the natural and musical balance the need for compression to control levels is no longer necessary. Since everybody is in the same room, the boxed sound which is so common in many modern recordings is absent and the sound of the room helps ''glue'' the sound of the recording.
> Mixing headphones: Sennheiser HD800


----------



## Fearless1

I've got to say I am not a fan of this guy, but this sounds amazing with the HD800:


----------



## LugBug1

sorrodje said:


> I think I' m not far of the same point. I received a Beyerdynamic T1 Monday and I'm currently testing it but it will not stay at home for a long time.  My Ultrasone is gone and I've really no need of another headphone for my tastes and what I listen to usually.


 
 Cool, is there any music you prefer on the Beyers compared to the HD800? I've been tempted a few times to check them out. I did enjoy the DT880's.


----------



## Sorrodje

lugbug1 said:


> Cool, is there any music you prefer on the Beyers compared to the HD800?


 
  
 No. but I have the worst difficulties to keep the T1 on my ears because of the treble peak. I had the same problem with the DT880.  
  
 I need more time  to be more accustomed to this Beyer Treble then I'll be able to be more accurate  .


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Scientific studies have just shown...
  
 The Sennheiser HD 800 makes you smarter!
  
 Why, you ask?
  
 Well, when someone offers a piece of advice or an opinion here on head-fi.org, I look at their avatar to see their ranking.  If they are not a Headphonius Supremius, I then look at their avatar to see if it shows an HD 800.  If not, I go to their profile to see if they have one.  That determines whether I think they know what they are talking about!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So clearly, folks who have an HD 800 know more.
  
 I have now invited myself to this distinguished Table of the Cognoscenti.  I took the bull by the horns, put my shoulder to the wheel, kept my head in the clouds while keeping my boots on the ground.
  
 Yes, I have just ordered my very own HD 800, as well as the HDVD 800 amplifier.
  
 Since I know that red headphones sound the best (see last line on the blackboard here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/723284/things-that-people-think-are-special-are-not-so-special-after-all-when-knowledge-of-the-origin-is-taken-away/15#post_10643801 ),  I ordered my headphones and amplifier through Colorware:
  


  
 These will go well with the wonderful FIAT Abarth Cabrio automobile that I bought the first of in Michigan over a year ago...
  

  
 ... and I have my eye on a color-coordinated power source to drive the whole setup for my own Portable Audio System:
  

 OK... so I am now an Enlightened Audiophile Expert.  What is the first topic you'd like my advice upon?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

So what did you learn from me or my avatar 
???


----------



## ruthieandjohn

alrainbow said:


> So what did you learn from me or my avatar
> ???


 

 Well, the main thing from you is that wonderful post about "Audio Flat Stuff," which of course with my eyes still dazzled by my nearly-new color-coordinated Fiat Abarth Cabrio, I read all the way through thinking you were talking about "Audio Fiat Stuff!"  Looks almost the same!!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Hahahaha can I show me the post please. 

Al


----------



## ruthieandjohn

alrainbow said:


> Hahahaha can I show me the post please.
> 
> Al


 
  
 Sure... go here>  http://www.head-fi.org/t/703069/a-must-read-for-us-headfiers#post_10218052
  
 "Nay, you claim, I merely posted something from someone else??"
  
 Nope... Just like credit goes to Von Karajan as well as to Beethoven when Von Karajan records a Beethoven symphony with his orchestra, credit accrues to you for what you choose to post!


----------



## skeptic

ruthieandjohn said:


> ....
> 
> Well, when someone offers a piece of advice or an opinion here on head-fi.org, I look at their avatar to see their ranking.  If they are not a Headphonius Supremius, I then look at their avatar to see if it shows an HD 800.  If not, I go to their profile to see if they have one.  That determines whether I think they know what they are talking about!


 
  
 Egads!  I'll grant you that hd800 ownership is a good metric for assessing whether a given poster is qualified to discuss hd800's, but the "supremus" label is simply a function of post count.  I recognize the above was partially in jest, but I do find it unfortunate that audio forum "titles" generally lend weight to the opinions of members based on the simple quantity, rather than the quality, of their posts, audio expertise, attendance at meets, length of involvement in the community etc.  Frankly, even character or word count would be a better measure than post count because it would discourage the use of "+1's", which are really just circumventing the intended use of the thumbs up button.  No disrespect intended to the prolific posters, particularly in this thread.  You guys are basically the engine that keeps on driving head-fi.  I just think the "supremus" label is a bit of a misnomer at this point.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I remember that now  it was about eq and headphones . it is a good read at least I thought it was.  what can I say some things you can teach .
  
 well anyway I do not show anything I have but all joking aside I have some nice stuff and I have been in this hobby all my life. so I guess I can add something here and there .
 anyway sorry if you did not like it . you can ask me questions I will post answers. .
  
 a short list of stuff I own is
 headphones
 hd800
 he 60
 stax 009
 lcd 3 new one
 he 6
  
 IEM,S
 ROXANNES
 PP6 BY UM
 JH 13 AND 16 FP
 JH3A AND JH 16 FP COMBO
 FITEAR TG 334 MADE CUSTOM
 and a few others
  
 headphone amps
 hdvd800
 woo wa 5 all out tube up grades like frank I had
 woo wes all upgrades
 krell kav 400 xi
  
 dacs
 ps audio direct stream
 audio gd M7
 mytek
 lampizator big 7
 hugo
 MSB  stack platinum plus and galaxy clock umt plus diamond and dual transport psu,s
  
 AP1/PP
 OFFRAMP 5 ALL OPTIONS AND NEW PSU
  
 speakers
 infinity IRS 1 B
 infinity IRS V
 and a whole bunch of other stuff for the speakers . DEQX active cross over
  
 AL


----------



## ALRAINBOW

skeptic said:


> Egads!  I'll grant you that hd800 ownership is a good metric for assessing whether a given poster is qualified to discuss hd800's, but the "supremus" label is simply a function of post count.  I recognize the above was partially in jest, but I do find it unfortunate that audio forum "titles" generally lend weight to the opinions of members based on the simple quantity, rather than the quality, of their posts, audio expertise, attendance at meets, length of involvement in the community etc.  Frankly, even character or word count would be a better measure than post count because it would discourage the use of "+1's", which are really just circumventing the intended use of the thumbs up button.  No disrespect intended to the prolific posters, particularly in this thread.  You guys are basically the engine that keeps on driving head-fi.  I just think the "supremus" label is a bit of a misnomer at this point.


 

 YES +1  I agree with you look at me I am idiot and look at the title I have  .  al kidding aside the whole concept of figuring it all out is complex but I do think trying as he typed is a good start. I have some knowledge or at least I know what  I like and I type horrible and get bashed and flamed . I do try to help if I can and post counts do say something to that. I use to have list of all the stuff I had till someone or group got me upset and I deleted the whole thing. but I did do the same thing and pm people as get done to me . anything is better than just glazing over and buying stuff cause some kid in the china says its great .
  
 al


----------



## skeptic

alrainbow said:


> YES +1  I agree with you look at me I am idiot and look at the title I have  .  al kidding aside the whole concept of figuring it all out is complex but I do think trying as he typed is a good start. I have some knowledge or at least I know what  I like and I type horrible and get bashed and flamed . I do try to help if I can and post counts do say something to that. I use to have list of all the stuff I had till someone or group got me upset and I deleted the whole thing. but I did do the same thing and pm people as get done to me . anything is better than just glazing over and buying stuff cause some kid in the china says its great .
> 
> al


 
  
 Well played, and I agree for the most part.  But for the record, I give your opinion weight cause you've clearly been in the game for a long time, have a ton of gear and obviously do go out of your way to respond to others and answer their questions based on your substantial experience.  The only extent to which your post count plays in for me are the posts I've personally read in this thread (and I think the prior hd800 thread?) over the years.
  
 I'm probably just getting ornery after too many years of reading these forums, but I'd value posts by an EE or audio engineer, with a post count of 12, 100x more than the post of a 15 year old who hangs out all day in the video game forum and the "what I'm listening to right now" thread, posting thousands of youtube links and/or about how great his $50 skullcandy buds sound.  That the latter is a "supremus" bums me out. 
  
 (Edit to correct typo)


----------



## SilverEars

Just go the HD800, I got to say, I'm not too impressed with it.  It is resolving for sure, but it does sound thin.  I would say it's on the cold side.  I much prefer the HE-6.  It doesn't wow me like when I first got the HE-6.  The treble sounds tinny or should I say unnatural.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I got to say HD800 has that BA iem tinny sound.  I would say HD800 is one of those phones that doesn't sound differentiated from iems like the LCD or the HE6.  To me it sound like iems.  Closer to what I remember of ER4.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

skeptic said:


> .., but I'd value posts by an EE or audio engineer, with a post count of 12, 100x more than the post of a 15 year old who hangs out all day in the video game forum and the "what I'm listening to right now" thread, posting thousands of youtube links and/or about how great his $50 skullcandy buds sound.  That the latter is a "supremus" bums me out.
> 
> (Edit to correct typo)


 
 I'm an electrical engineer (with a Ph.D.), written a textbook on signal processing, served as President of the IEEE (Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers) Signal Processing Society, elected a Fellow of the IEEE for work in signal processing, worked on acoustics research at Bell Labs, and I'm *still* a novice at "headphonology."
  
 I like to think that some of my better posts, e.g., this one: http://www.head-fi.org/t/721406/how-we-rank-our-own-headphones-statistics-of-2-000-owner-rankings-compiled#post_10597847 that tells how we compare our own headphones in a way that allows others considering a particular model of headphone to know how others that already have it compare it to their own inventory, with the chance that the prospective buyer can relate to one or more of them, or my so far 10 systematic 3-way comparisons of headphones as most recently summarized here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/723136/battle-of-the-bassys-beats-pro-yamaha-pro-500-and-beats-studio-2013-compared#post_10634722 , gives me license to post some really stupidly funny stuff, like this...  http://www.head-fi.org/t/709045/spank-those-celebrities-cans#post_10344094  about what we can DO about the popularity of Beats By Dr. Dre headphones, or this... http://www.head-fi.org/t/720963/ode-to-dr-7a-the-headphone-con-s-sewer#post_10588447 which is my poetic ode to a DR. other than Dre, the DR-7A, that got me started on all this.
  
 I have so much to learn! But I do think putting my recently-ordered color-coordinated Sennheiser HD 800 and HDVD 800 into my avatar makes me look smarter already, even though they won't arrive for a few weeks, don't you?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Damn who got you started. 
Hey known the top three headphones. How lucky am I


----------



## SilverEars

Is that you Munson?  The famous signal processing professor?  Anyway, I disagree with the rank, I would put the HE-6 at the top. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  HD800 has the largest number of users.


----------



## lin0003

Hey guys, has anybody done blind tests on the HD800 between 320 MP3 and FLAC? I find I cannot tell the difference on anything before, but I find that I got 80% correct on a blind test with my own equipment and music that I am familiar with. This really amazed me, I never thought there was any significant audible difference between FLAC and MP3 but apparently there is...


----------



## SilverEars

lin0003 said:


> Hey guys, has anybody done blind tests on the HD800 between 320 MP3 and FLAC? I find I cannot tell the difference on anything before, but I find that I got 80% correct on a blind test with my own equipment and music that I am familiar with. This really amazed me, I never thought there was any significant audible difference between FLAC and MP3 but apparently there is...


 
 I think to maximize the potential to notice difference, you should compress the most well recorded with lots of intricate details and that outputs the full spectrum.  If you do this, you will have no doubt the there is no difference, but if you use some crappy recording, you cannot be sure as some FLAC should not be FLAC.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

silverears said:


> Is that you Munson?  The famous signal processing professor?  Anyway, I disagree with the rank, I would put the HE-6 at the top.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Not Munson but we know each other...
  
 And the HE-6 was rated ahead of the HD 800 six times; the HD 800 was rated ahead of the HE-6 five times, by the eleven folks who rated both.  That's why it has a white dot ("essentially equal") on that ranking matrix.
  
 But indeed to the purist, the HE-6 came out ahead.


----------



## lin0003

silverears said:


> I think to maximize the potential to notice difference, you should compress the most well recorded with lots of intricate details and that outputs the full spectrum.  If you do this, you will have no doubt the there is no difference, but if you use some crappy recording, you cannot be sure as some FLAC should not be FLAC.


 
 But I do hear a difference most of the time? 
  
 I agree that you have to use good tracks to test though, all MP3 tracks used were compressed from the original file with foorbar.


----------



## SilverEars

ruthieandjohn said:


> Not Munson but we know each other...
> 
> And the HE-6 was rated ahead of the HD 800 six times; the HD 800 was rated ahead of the HE-6 five times, by the eleven folks who rated both.  That's why it has a white dot ("essentially equal") on that ranking matrix.


 
 Ok, so after extended listen, I'm liking them.  I like how it resolves, and it is indeed very tight out of my Beta 22.  So, I have tried 3 TOTL with my Beta 22(HE-6, HD800, and LCD2.2), and they all come out sounding the most tight, and least muddy out of all  my amps(Others are not as high powered), and LCD2.2 performs the most poor.  After trying all these 3, I realized LCD2.2 is just poor, and it's not my amp.  
  
 I think I just needed the brain burn-in like any other phones.  Now I'm sure if the headphones are bright initially, you need to burn-in your brain for awhile for it to sound good.  This is the same for my top CIEM, the NT-6, it sounds bright initially, and I give it time, it sound fantastic.  I think the HD-800 is the same way.  The HE-6 is definately thicker or should we say warmer.  Definately lacking in bass, and this could be the reason for extreme clarity and resolution.  I don't know what it is, but it doesn't have that distinguishing characteristics of separated from iems like the the LCDs or the HE series.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I can hesr a difference in the same ripped cd , verses the original one . 

the he 6 scores high cause it sounds closets to real speakers . but the hd800 is much more accurite in presentation . but the dac must oh high qulity as well as the source for this to be done well .
al


----------



## SilverEars

alrainbow said:


> I can hesr a difference in the same ripped cd , verses the original one .
> 
> the he 6 scores high cause it sounds closets to real speakers . but the hd800 is much more accurite in presentation . but the dac must oh high qulity as well as the source for this to be done well .
> al


 
 I believe the amp is the more important than the DAC, because DAC has more subtle affect in presentation.  Once you have the cleanest amp, it's the DAC next as the DAC has an analog stage also, and if it has a quality analog stage, it would sound more accurate for sure.  So far, I've been very happy with my ODAC.  I know we tend to automatically associate cost with quality, but if you AB the DACs, the difference will be subtle.  I have yet to find a DAC to beat the ODAC, even the more expensive ones.  I have not tried DAC with regulated PS though.  Does that make a big difference with DACs?


----------



## lin0003

What amp are your using? The B22 right?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

For me it's feh source as in DAC. Why cause if the DAC stinks the whole chain does 
So no matter how good them is it still stinks. 
Although it is all important 
Take o2 amp and there DAC it has a certain sound now take a better amp how much better is it. Not much


----------



## SilverEars

lin0003 said:


> What amp are your using? The B22 right?


 
 Correct, but 2 channel. It's too much of a hassle to go balanced, so I stick with SE.  I've had good luck with hard to drive HE-6 also, so don't under estimate it.  The 2 channel build should not be be super expensive,  you can find one reasonably priced.


----------



## lin0003

I have heard the HE-6, not sure what was used to drive it exactly, but I really liked it. IMO the headphones I've heard goes HD800, HE-6, LCD-3, Abyss, HE-500 and the LCD-2. For some reason I just didn't like the Abyss.


----------



## Canadian411

silverears said:


> Ok, so after extended listen, I'm liking them.  I like how it resolves, and it is indeed very tight out of my Beta 22.  So, I have tried 3 TOTL with my Beta 22(HE-6, HD800, and LCD2.2), and they all come out sounding the most tight, and least muddy out of all  my amps(Others are not as high powered), and LCD2.2 performs the most poor.  After trying all these 3, I realized LCD2.2 is just poor, and it's not my amp.


 
  
 Before I had HD800 I thought LCD2.2 was the best headphone in the world (mislead by lot of lcd2 fanboys people 
 Since then my ears grew up, I find LCD2 muddy compare to HD800. HD800 is truly in the different league.
  
 I don't know what I was thinking. I say LCD2s are mid-fi headphones IMO.


----------



## lin0003

I think the LCD-2 and the T1 are two of the most overrated headphones. The LCD-2 has nice thumpy bass, but that's it.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

This setup on my vaca


----------



## Canadian411

lin0003 said:


> I think the LCD-2 and the T1 are two of the most overrated headphones. The LCD-2 has nice thumpy bass, but that's it.


 
  
 This, +1, agreed. T1 is ok if you can get it under $750 (was on sale at amazon, brand new) but not worth $1000+.


----------



## SilverEars

canadian411 said:


> Before I had HD800 I thought LCD2.2 was the best headphone in the world (mislead by lot of lcd2 fanboys people
> Since then my ears grew up, I find LCD2 muddy compare to HD800. HD800 is truly in the different league.
> 
> I don't know what I was thinking. I say LCD2s are mid-fi headphones IMO.


 
 Well, I compared it to the HD650, and with a good amp LCD2 tightens up, but HD650 does not scale any higher from a "decent" amp so with my Beta 22, the LCD2 sounded noticibly better, but by a small margin, what was more significant was the size of the sound.  LCD sounded bigger of course.


----------



## kvtaco17

canadian411 said:


> Before I had HD800 I thought LCD2.2 was the best headphone in the world (mislead by lot of lcd2 fanboys people
> Since then my ears grew up, I find LCD2 muddy compare to HD800. HD800 is truly in the different league.
> 
> I don't know what I was thinking. I say LCD2s are mid-fi headphones IMO.


 
 They aren't that bad, they just lack finesse...


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> This setup on my vaca


 
  
 so your vacation includes not only the 5 stars all inclusive hotel but pretty much FULL-SIZE Amps and DAC, Mytek DAC, PS DAC, HDVD800, laptop, huge LCD, HD800,
 + your family ? lol. 
  
 You have lot of energy to carry these ? you are still young AL !


----------



## Canadian411

silverears said:


> Well, I compared it to the HD650, and with a good amp LCD2 tightens up, but HD650 does not scale any higher from a "decent" amp so with my Beta 22, the LCD2 sounded noticibly better, but by a small margin, what was more significant was the size of the sound.  LCD sounded bigger of course.


 
 Oh ya, LCD2.2 definitely better than HD650, I had HD650, but just saying that LCD2/3 doesn't compete well with HD800 or HE6.


----------



## lin0003

I think the 3 does to an extent, but not the 2.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Lmao. No it's my home in North Carolina. The kid gets out of school and here we are . Two cars 3 cats 6 dogs and a 7 year old . So full,house. And I am 57 so not young either although I wish I were . 

I wanted to take the lampizator but it is too big . The DAC is the new ps audio DS. this is why the Hugo people hate me .

Al


----------



## SilverEars

kvtaco17 said:


> They aren't that bad, they just lack finesse...


 
 The mids are that finesse, It not as forward as it should be, it too hidden.  The treble is fantastic, and the bass is big, creating the big sound, but if you AB, it's not as tight as the HD800 or HE-6 and the mids are not as forward.  I wouldn't mind the resolution of the HD800, the realism of the HE-6, and the big sound of the LCDs.  It would be the most perfect.


----------



## SilverEars

Actually, I take back everything I said.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I like them, it sounds fantastic given the recording is good.  I'm a treble guy, and it sound pretty accurate to me.  This is exactly what I like.  If anybody knows my posts, I always ask for details and clairity, or should we say resolution.  These are definitely fantastic.  These are not like iems, I take that back also after listening to better recording.  Note to self, don't start out with pop music.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

What DAC do you have ?? 
Can you play DSD. I would love to recommend something really good to download 
Al


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> Lmao. No it's my home in North Carolina. The kid gets out of school and here we are . Two cars 3 cats 6 dogs and a 7 year old . So full,house. And I am 57 so not young either although I wish I were .
> 
> I wanted to take the lampizator but it is too big . The DAC is the new ps audio DS. this is why the Hugo people hate me .
> 
> Al




You have too many dacs!! Omg.


----------



## SilverEars

alrainbow said:


> What DAC do you have ??
> Can you play DSD. I would love to recommend something really good to download
> Al


 
 I use ODAC, and I have a long history with it, and I am very satisfied with it.  It does 24/96, but I don't believe it does DSD if you need a special DAC for it.  
  
 Can you recommend me some tracks you think the HD800 does well with?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Well,ok. If you use jriver or foo bar you can down sample on the fly. If you like Elvis thee is a download at acoustic audio 
It's the stereo 57 DSD It is fantastic. Also red book cd to buy though count Basie Kansas City shout . It's on Pablo records. 
Either one is fine and will shine those headphones. 
Al


----------



## SilverEars

I just found a flaw with it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  It doesn't do well with Electronica.  Ok, there is a reason why I said pop sounds lousy.  It's the treble that is used in pop, it's not like real instruments.  The treble used on pop peaks too much, and it gets rather unruly.  I will have to test out cymbal sounds as I'm not looking forward to it's cymbal sounds.  I believe the low frequency treble is where it might have pushed too much.  
  
 So, for treble happy electronica, HD800 isn't very good.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Not trying to insult you. But have you heard a Hugo ?? It is both an amp and really good DAC. It will change your whole prospective on your music. Give it a try. 

Just a thought .
Al


----------



## SilverEars

alrainbow said:


> Not trying to insult you. But have you heard a Hugo ?? It is both an amp and really good DAC. It will change your whole prospective on your music. Give it a try.
> 
> Just a thought .
> Al


 
 No insult taken.  I've heard of it, yes.  I don't want to commit on it, I would like to audition it first.  I've had times where a thread would be full of rave reviews an the product not meeting up to the hypes.  What I have right now as source sound really good and if the Hugo performs subpar, then I have a $2.5k brick that I don't really need.  I would like to audition it though.  I wouldn't mind borrowing yours Al, I'm in the East cost.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
 Anyhow, it's not all Electronica it sounds bad.  Some electronica, the thick treble that are forward creates problems.  Yup, it's the cymbal like sounding treble that the HD800 doesn't do very well.


----------



## PleasantSounds

silverears said:


> I just found a flaw with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think that with the HD800 you're finally able to hear that the ODAC is too bright. Sabre chips are not the best match here.
 Al is right: you should try the HD800 with a different upstream gear, and Hugo is said to work really well with them.


----------



## Maxvla

silverears said:


> Just go the HD800, I got to say, I'm not too impressed with it.  It is resolving for sure, but it does sound thin.  I would say it's on the cold side.  I much prefer the HE-6.  It doesn't wow me like when I first got the HE-6.  The treble sounds tinny or should I say unnatural.
> 
> I got to say HD800 has that BA iem tinny sound.  I would say HD800 is one of those phones that doesn't sound differentiated from iems like the LCD or the HE6.  To me it sound like iems.  Closer to what I remember of ER4.



I'd give it more time. Can take a while to get used to the resolution and how it affects the rest of the sound.


----------



## Maxvla

silverears said:


> I just found a flaw with it.    It doesn't do well with Electronica.  Ok, there is a reason why I said pop sounds lousy.  It's the treble that is used in pop, it's not like real instruments.  The treble used on pop peaks too much, and it gets rather unruly.  I will have to test out cymbal sounds as I'm not looking forward to it's cymbal sounds.  I believe the low frequency treble is where it might have pushed too much.
> 
> So, for treble happy electronica, HD800 isn't very good.



Electronica is one of the HD800's strengths in many opinions, including mine. Perhaps you are not used to the level of resolution and are thus listening too loud (easier to do than you might think)? These days about 80% of my listening is electronica and I exclusively use HD800s.


----------



## Zoom25

Electronic is god mode on HD800. Better than the darker LCD-2, LCD-3 and the more energetic HE-500, HE-6. Same applies for treble IMO. Also, the HD800's bass is very speaker like in terms of it's saturation. Not only is the soundstage speaker like, but so are the kicks. It might be the ODAC or the rest of the chain.


----------



## SilverEars

After more extended listen.  It resolves well, but I don't see much beyond it.  I'm starting to get why people are saying these sound unnatural.  It's detailed, but not the detailing I like, it just sounds treble boosted.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The sibilance....  The definition consists of treble mostly, that's not how nature puts out sound.


----------



## Sorrodje

maxvla said:


> Electronica is one of the HD800's strengths in many opinions, including mine. Perhaps you are not used to the level of resolution and are thus listening too loud (easier to do than you might think)? These days about 80% of my listening is electronica and I exclusively use HD800s.


 
  
 I'm in the same boat. I listened a lot of electronica last weeks and IMO too the HD800 reproduces ELectronica stunningly well.
  
 Siverears : IMO & IME the HD800 is very very sensitive to the gear & EQ. so it's easy to make yourself the sound you like with a HD800. That been said, if you reallydislike the Senn at the first listen, nothing will change it in another headphone.On my rig, to my ears, the Beyerdynamic T1 is  more sibilant & bright & dry than my HD800. And even if I recognize that the LCD3 is a very good headphone I found the Audeze to be a bit bland & congested.
  
 Matter of preference as usual :cheers:


----------



## SilverEars

I am used to high resolution. I have the NT6 and the HE-6 which are both very resolving.  One thing I'm not into is boosted treble.  I know the difference.  Of course I can look for a warmer DAC or look for a DAC that has lower treble dip or EQ it, but I have not experienced to such extreme.  I belive what I'm hearing is what it is.  I've read impressions and I'm hearing what is commonly said about these.  
  
 I find that the HE-6 has superb resolution, but it sound more natural.  The resolution on the HD800 sounds purposely boosted as when you start hearing tinny sounds, you know it's very cold and analytical.  People say the Sennheiser amp sounds bright, I think it's the headphone that's giving that impression.


----------



## Sorrodje

The fact is that personally I never found the HD800 cold or unnatural even compared to some of the best competitors i had the chance to own or try seriously.
  
 I owned and loved the HE-4 and something in the treble is boosted too, I owned and dislike the HE-400 because of the treble glare. I tried the HE-500 and found it a bit bright. I hate the beyerdynamic T1 because of its peaky treble.  We're not all equally sensitive . Some people hate 6khz boost ( HD800 haters) , some other hate 8khz peaks ( I.E me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 a other beyer haters) , some other can't bear the 9/10Khz peaks (Ultrasone haters) . If you like laid-back treble stay away from german headphones


----------



## SilverEars

Speaking of looking for warm treble dip source.  I agree with Golden Ear's graph.


----------



## Maxvla

silverears said:


> After more extended listen.  It resolves well, but I don't see much beyond it.  I'm starting to get why people are saying these sound unnatural.  It's detailed, but not the detailing I like, it just sounds treble boosted.     The sibilance....  The definition consists of treble mostly, that's not how nature puts out sound.



I owned the HE-6 for a while. They are nowhere near as resolving as HD800s. Definition, by 'definition', is a treble characteristic. If you mean how detail and texture come through in other areas of the spectrum, you'd be wrong again. HD800 has some of the most visceral, controlled, come-from-nowhere bass, and very realistic mids, especially vocals. Some people say they have grainy mids cause vocals sound grainy. Do yourself a favor and listen at a microphone's perspective to someone talking or singing, it's not as clean and smooth as people would like. There's your real.


----------



## SilverEars

The resolvement is perception from result of lack of body with boosted treble.  I'm done here.


----------



## Maxvla

Alright, enjoy your fault-masking headphones.


----------



## magiccabbage

maxvla said:


> Electronica is one of the HD800's strengths in many opinions, including mine. Perhaps you are not used to the level of resolution and are thus listening too loud (easier to do than you might think)? These days about 80% of my listening is electronica and I exclusively use HD800s.


 
 what would be your fav electronic albums on HD800?


----------



## drez

silverears said:


> After more extended listen.  It resolves well, but I don't see much beyond it.  I'm starting to get why people are saying these sound unnatural.  It's detailed, but not the detailing I like, it just sounds treble boosted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 IMO HD800 are among top 3-4 headphones but the treble is an issue with some equipment, whether it is the equipment or the headphone is a matter of conjecture.  With a Sabre DAC and keen/detailed amp it's probably going to be too much.
  
 Recently I experimented going back to stock from Anax 2.0.  I think initially I was happy because my hearing was affected by a head-cold LOL.  Anyway the stock headphones are quite bright and unfortunately lack some control in a couple of narrow bands in the treble, I think consensus is 6-8kHz.  With resolving and neutral (or bright depending who you ask) gear this will be very noticeable and distracting.  I also found the stock HD800 to sort of artificially exaggerate dynamics - not sure if this is because they are decaying faster or an effect of the frequency response.
  
 IMO Anax mod 2.0 swaps linearity in the bass for linearity in the treble.  To explain - stock HD800 has better bass extension and less midbass bloat.  Anax mod 2.0, as I have installed it, has more linear and controlled treble but less linear and controlled bass.
  
 Second point is that the stock HD800 sound faster and more dynamic, and seem to have a larger sounding headstage.  
  
 In the perfect world we could have the treble of the Anax 2.0 with the bass of the stock headphone - I think this is what those guys are working on.  
  
 A hint for those undertaking the mod - I left the trapezoid out and used the "more neutral sound" ring and find that that does enough to the treble to be listenable without ruining the bass too much.
  
  
 Of course the other option is to address the treble with eq and leave the headphone stock.  This would probably achieve the goal of fixing the treble without ruining the bass.  Unfortunately I don't have much time this weekend to mod/unmod/EQ my headphones so that will have to wait.


----------



## Priidik

silverears said:


> I am used to high resolution. I have the NT6 and the HE-6 which are both very resolving.  One thing I'm not into is boosted treble.  I know the difference.  Of course I can look for a warmer DAC or look for a DAC that has lower treble dip or EQ it, but I have not experienced to such extreme.  I belive what I'm hearing is what it is.  I've read impressions and I'm hearing what is commonly said about these.


 
 Maybe the upstream gear is not compatible with the phones. Even warm  or treble dulling amp/dac  will not take away the roughness and treble peaks for me, which is not even the  characteristics of HD800, but the characteristics of the whole system, i believe. 
 What i think the HD800 needs is not a warm dull upstream, but neutral high slew rate, higher order distrortion free, high voltage swing amplifier and neutral, high quality dac.
  
    For me the treble peaks (7k and 10.5k) dissapear from HD800 in the right system.  I have found at least one combo that works well, still don't own it though. 
 I wouldn't trust hp measurements on the freq range extremes. If one compares different sources (Golden Ears, Headroom, Innerfidelity, etc) it can be seen that the peaks and dips won't even match properly. For my ears the Innerfidelity fr resp seems to sort of match.
 And for my ears there is no dip in the 3k area, quite the opposite i have a slight boost there. I'm thinking its related to differences in individual ear/head shapes.


----------



## preproman

silverears said:


> The resolvement is perception from result of lack of body with boosted treble.  I'm done here.


 
  
 I've been an owner of both head phones for a while now.  Although I don't listen to Electronic music the HD800 does shine with other types ie Large Orchestral and Big Band type of music.  However, when it comes to vocals and bass.  The HE-6 is far ahead in both areas.  Now you have to own both and have to have gone through many amps and DACs to figure this out.  
  
 Both resolve very well - and both are amp depended in doing so.  Neither Mask any information that I can tell.
  
 The jury is still out on the HD800 paired with the EC 445 and maybe some tube rolling to get the right fit..


----------



## 62ohm

I considered getting the HE-6 before, but when I auditioned it, its comfort factor is a total deal-breaker for me. Personally, for me comfort matters more than SQ as no matter how good a headphone sound, if I can't stand wearing them it all means nothing.


----------



## nigeljames

drez said:


> IMO HD800 are among top 3-4 headphones but the treble is an issue with some equipment, whether it is the equipment or the headphone is a matter of conjecture.  *With a Sabre DAC and keen/detailed amp it's probably going to be too much.*
> 
> Recently I experimented going back to stock from Anax 2.0.  I think initially I was happy because my hearing was affected by a head-cold LOL.  Anyway the stock headphones are quite bright and unfortunately lack some control in a couple of narrow bands in the treble, I think consensus is 6-8kHz.  With resolving and neutral (or bright depending who you ask) gear this will be very noticeable and distracting.  I also found the stock HD800 to sort of artificially exaggerate dynamics - not sure if this is because they are decaying faster or an effect of the frequency response.


 
  
 Oh no no no.


----------



## Canadian411

I like my HD800, no mods, factory default and no harsh trebles.
  
 I might bring back my HD800 to local retail store to compare with the older HD800 headphone (19xxx serial number), mine is 26xxx.


----------



## Eternal Phoenix

canadian411 said:


> I like my HD800, no mods, factory default and no harsh trebles.


 
  
 A +1 to this, (SN:27xxx) sound brilliant as they are, however amps and DACs are looming as future purchases...

 *sigh* it would be so much easier to just spend all that money on music... damn.


----------



## Canadian411

eternal phoenix said:


> A +1 to this, (SN:27xxx) sound brilliant as they are, however amps and DACs are looming as future purchases...
> 
> *sigh* it would be so much easier to just spend all that money on music... damn.


 
  
 I agree but I don't really want to start the long long debate again about the difference in between HD800 serial numbers.
 I know many found it different (including myself) but some says it's not.
  
 So, I want to keep it myself.   I am glad that I sold my old HD800 , I will be angry 27xxx sounds different than my 26xxx one hahaha.


----------



## thinker

HD-800 with different amps
  
 Moth 2A3 tube amp  9/10
 Singlepower MPX03 8,5/10
 HDVD-800   9.2/10 on 4pin and 8,8/10 on jack
 245 45 tube amp transformer coupled 9.5/10
 2A3 tube amps 9/10 transformer coupled
 four board B22 9.4/10
 Rudistor RP-030  9.2/10
 OTL 6C33  9.4/10
  
 and
OTL 300B tube amp , all problems gone this is the best amp for HD-800 it's a huge step up in soundquality to other amps rating is +14/10 from bass to highs the absolute king amp
 On DSD files ( Opus) you are "there" pure live presentation the most outside your head presentation ever warm/ smooth/ detailed/ airy


----------



## kkcc

nigeljames said:


> Oh no no no.  :wink_face:




Yup... I can't agree with sweeping statement against the sabre. Well maybe something like a ODAC leaves a lot to be desired, but even relatively inexpensive audio-gd's 9018 dacs or sth like a hm901 pairs quite well with a neutral amp and HD800.


----------



## James-uk

I used to think I wanted more bass , less treble and richer mids from the HD800. I realise now after 2 years of trying new headphones / modifying, trying different amps etc and using EQ that the stock HD800 run from HDVD800 and odac is perfect to my ears. The mid range is simply stunning, the treble is detailed and realistic without ever being harsh and the bass is defined and tight with the Exact amount of weight, any more and it would be overpowering and impact on the imaging and soundstage. For me personally it was a misunderstanding of how music should sound and my idea of what perfect sound is. After pursuing my idea of that sound I've come to understand that the reality is not what I thought it was. The HD800 with the right setup is very close to perfection, I know that now and I enjoy them more than ever. They never leave me wanting more and Everytime I listen to them I am still amazed how good they are. They are a remarkable pair of headphones.


----------



## commtrd

pepper said:


> The HD800 sounds so, so, so, so much better with a pretty aggressive downward EQ from 6k to 10k... (by that I mean 3.5 to 5db down).
> 
> You lose the metallicy, thin, annoying sibilance and are left with a big, detailed sound with unmatched imaging.
> 
> ...


 
I don't think it should be necessary to EQ headphones to make them enjoyable to listen to.


----------



## Sorrodje

commtrd said:


> I don't think it should be necessary to EQ headphones to make them enjoyable to listen to.


 
  
 it's definitely not necessary to EQ the HD800 to make it enjoyable to listen to.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

thinker said:


> HD-800 with different amps
> 
> Moth 2A3 tube amp  9/10
> Singlepower MPX03 8,5/10
> ...




I am down to two amps for the hd800. The hdvd800 and the woo WA5 all out tube upgrades. The point is the tubes give a little warmth and on some recordings it's welcome but the hdvd800 is also very close . For me it's close race and flavor of the day. A fellow headfi bud had the F1 j. I intend to listen to it with all three side by side. I think the hd800 are fantastic and right in the middle of a stax009 and a HE6. The best of both worlds so to speak . As long as it's a good DAC and a compatible amp it's just stunning. It's hard to pick or say what's best as there is no best anyway . 

Al


----------



## MattTCG

silverears said:


> Well, I compared it to the HD650, and with a good amp LCD2 tightens up, but HD650 does not scale any higher from a "decent" amp so with my Beta 22, the LCD2 sounded noticibly better, but by a small margin, what was more significant was the size of the sound.  LCD sounded bigger of course.


 
  
 I would say that I've found just the opposite. For me, the lcd2 is almost amp agnostic...sounding about the same from most amps. But the hd650 has impressive scale. Going from the lyr to BHC is just jaw dropping.


----------



## Sorrodje

alrainbow said:


> I think the hd800 are fantastic and right in the middle of a stax009 and a HE6. The best of both worlds so to speak .


 
  
  
 Did your hear the Abyss Al ?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

james-uk said:


> I used to think I wanted more bass , less treble and richer mids from the HD800. I realise now after 2 years of trying new headphones / modifying, trying different amps etc and using EQ that the stock HD800 run from HDVD800 and odac is perfect to my ears. The mid range is simply stunning, the treble is detailed and realistic without ever being harsh and the bass is defined and tight with the Exact amount of weight, any more and it would be overpowering and impact on the imaging and soundstage. For me personally it was a misunderstanding of how music should sound and my idea of what perfect sound is. After perusing my idea of that sound I've come to understand that the reality is not what I thought it was. The HD800 with the right setup is very close to perfection, I know that now and I enjoy them more than ever. They never leave me wanting more and Everytime I listen to them I am still amazed how good they are. They are a remarkable pair of headphones.




That is the whole point in discussion about synergy. It's all about us individually not as a whole. I very much dislike sabre anything , mytek , odac, any of the AKl line and a few others. But what is good to my brain may not be for all. What we can all agree to should be this statement . And beyond that our trials and efforts and the sharing of them. This is what it's really about but as people are people it tends to go beyond that most times and we loose focus of the point of sharing when we say hey your idea stinks. My first attempt was with the mytek for headphones. Although I have been an audio nut of sorts from way back in the early 70 ,s. . It has evolved only the past 10 years to include headphones. 
And this is why I am here but as headphones require a different understanding I have learned much right here . Even if I totally disagree there stuff to be learned . 

Enjoy your rig 
Al


----------



## Priidik

thinker said:


> OTL 300B tube amp , all problems gone this is the best amp for HD-800 it's a huge step up in soundquality to other amps rating is *+14/10* from bass to highs the absolute king amp
> On DSD files ( Opus) you are "there" pure live presentation the most outside your head presentation ever warm/ smooth/ detailed/ airy


 
 Good to see some  comparisons, but why not scale to 10/10? 
 Care to share details about that OTL amp?


----------



## MattTCG

I'm thinking of upgrading my dac specifically for the 800. I currently have the bifrost uber running over optical. I'm considering the Matrx X Sabre. Any thoughts?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

sorrodje said:


> Did your hear the Abyss Al ?




No not as of yet. I did hear from a few headfi bros though about its sound . Some day I will here it myself .
Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

matttcg said:


> I'm thinking of upgrading my dac specifically for the 800. I currently have the bifrost uber running over optical. I'm considering the Matrx X Sabre. Any thoughts?




 I am not part of the hugo fan club but it is a very good DAC and good amp too. Reg a simple DAC update it's the go to choice I would recommend . Also you shroud know I am not a fan of sabre either . But plenty love them so do not just go by my word . 

Al


----------



## Priidik

matttcg said:


> I'm thinking of upgrading my dac specifically for the 800. I currently have the bifrost uber running over optical. I'm considering the Matrx X Sabre. Any thoughts?


 
 I have not heard any Schiit units, but be aware some are sensitive to 'Sabre glare' , i did't know what people mean by this 'Sabre glare' until i compared it with another great dac, a lot more expensive one (Ayon something) 
 Still, it was noticeable to me in direct comparison and actually more so with speakers than HD800-s. 
 I think the soundstage is artificially wide with Yulong DA8, but with HDVA 600 amp it did not bother me at all,
 vocals were nicely in the middle front again (not between my ears, ugh).
 The DA8 was not trounched by the more expensive unit in resolution or micro details, and 
 that i appreciate while listening with HD800.


----------



## kkcc

alrainbow said:


> I am not part of the hugo fan club but it is a very good DAC and good amp too. Reg a simple DAC update it's the go to choice I would recommend . Also you shroud know I am not a fan of sabre either . But plenty love them so do not just go by my word .
> 
> Al




Hey Al wouldn't have known you aren't in the Hugo fan club looking at your post there! Pretty high praise from a non fan...  haha I know where you coming from and your preference on PS directstream. Makes me really want to get one myself since you are loving it so much. But yea agree Hugo is a very nice DAC for HD800 imo.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I am glad you understand me. I am away at my home in NC. and I have the DS and the hugo with me. Also the mytek. If just pcm the other two I can learn to,love but that mytek with pcm just kills me. The hugo is good but not to worship level of some . I offer is at a one stop shop combo as it's pretty for the price. But if you here the DS and hugo side by side it's pretty apparent witch one is more realistic all around. 

Al


----------



## SilverEars

alrainbow said:


> That is the whole point in discussion about synergy. It's all about us individually not as a whole.* I very much dislike sabre anything* , mytek , odac, any of the AKl line and a few others. But what is good to my brain may not be for all. What we can all agree to should be this statement . And beyond that our trials and efforts and the sharing of them. This is what it's really about but as people are people it tends to go beyond that most times and we loose focus of the point of sharing when we say hey your idea stinks. My first attempt was with the mytek for headphones. Although I have been an audio nut of sorts from way back in the early 70 ,s. . It has evolved only the past 10 years to include headphones.
> And this is why I am here but as headphones require a different understanding I have learned much right here . Even if I totally disagree there stuff to be learned .
> 
> Enjoy your rig
> Al


 
 Interesting statement as you have stated previously that you like the Hibino R10 which has the ES9018.
  
 What do you like?  Of course the Hugo.  The FPGA..
  
 Also, this goes back to people thinking that HD800 needs the right setup.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Anyway,  whatever that right setup is probably EQing the phones.  Tube, cutting off the treble, and etc.. Basically, remedying the phones to your liking.  I'd rather have the phones output what I desire.  Not look for some skewed FR setup that will color the sound to my liking, because the phones are skewed.  Anyway, HD800 is not for me, that's all there is to it.


----------



## James-uk

silverears said:


> Interesting statement as you have stated you like the Hibino R10 which has the ES9018.
> 
> What do you like?  Of course the Hugo.  The FPGA..
> 
> Also, this goes back to people thinking that HD800 needs the right setup.  :rolleyes:   Anyway,  whatever that right setup is probably EQing the phones.  Tube, cutting off the treble, and etc.. Basically, remedying the phones to your liking.  I'd rather have the phones output what I desire.  Not look for some skewed FR setup that will color the sound to my liking, because the phones are skewed.  Anyway, HD800 is not for me, that's all there is to it.




I would give them time and allow your brain to adjust. Don't keep comparing them just sit back and listen exclusively and the 'HD800 moment ' will come.


----------



## SilverEars

james-uk said:


> I would give them time and allow your brain to adjust. Don't keep comparing them just sit back and listen exclusively and the 'HD800 moment ' will come.


 
 I gave it enough time.  Typical time I give it before the wow factor hits me.  I don't like bright phones, and I have appreciated phones that people considered veiled as your ears adjust over time.  These phones will be one of the longest for my ears to adjust to as even the terrible ones I have, my ears can adjust and the memory will forget about the better FR.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
 My NT6 is initially bright if I have been away from it for awhile, and after half hour or so, it starts sounding like it should.  I have experienced this with bright phones, but the HD800, the brightness just don't go away.  Like I said it's not for me, it's sound sig is not what I like.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

silverears said:


> Interesting statement as you have stated previously that you like the Hibino R10 which has the ES9018.
> 
> What do you like?  Of course the Hugo.  The FPGA..
> 
> Also, this goes back to people thinking that HD800 needs the right setup.  :rolleyes:   Anyway,  whatever that right setup is probably EQing the phones.  Tube, cutting off the treble, and etc.. Basically, remedying the phones to your liking.  I'd rather have the phones output what I desire.  Not look for some skewed FR setup that will color the sound to my liking, because the phones are skewed.  Anyway, HD800 is not for me, that's all there is to it.



I think my statement was a little misunderstood. And I will,take the blame for it. In the end in really do mean like your rig not being sarcastic. Also yes I do prefer the hibino to the AK line and I know its sabre of course. But this does not mean i do not like others much more. I used the hibino strictly for mobile. This has now been replaced by the hugo. My pint was synergy to your liking. There is nothing wrong with your rig if you like it. My only issue is not trying others to hear possible improvements. Now this could be me being old and wanting to hear the best I can afford before I die hahahaha. But I can say buying better devices greatly improved my listening experience . As such I try to share my findings . It does not mean anyone here should do as I say but it is worthwhile to read . If you can understand encrypted post,s lmao. This does piss some off though so some need to get over it. As I do take the time to help and I so proof as well so this is as good as it gets. 
Al


----------



## Zoom25

silverears said:


> Interesting statement as you have stated previously that you like the Hibino R10 which has the ES9018.
> 
> What do you like?  Of course the Hugo.  The FPGA..
> 
> ...


 
  
 At the end of the day, if you don't like it move on. Don't put yourself through something you don't like just because it's supposed to sound good. However, I'd like to point out that the HD800 is one of the most sensitive to gear changes. More than any planar or dynamic I've owned or tried so far. The sound can change quite quickly with different gear.
  
 I use HD800 with studio gear exclusively. All flat DACs and headphone amplifiers. Neither make them sound harsh or thin. In fact quite full. More so than LCD-3's slow sound. I've heard dark gear like LCD-2's and LCD-3 get more aggressive and unbearable in the treble region due to bad amps or DAC pairings…BDA-2/BHA-1 combo being one of them. Yet the HD800 can pull it off in the treble while being super resolving.
  
 I owned O2 for 2 years and had the ODAC from my friend for 2 months. In that period I tried a bunch of speaker and headphone amps combos. The O2 was definitely bright. It's counterpart ODAC was decent, but definitely not end all in performance. I've heard people say that those two are supposed to be flat, but when compared to other solid state flat studio gear, both the O2 (to a higher degree) and ODAC are definitely not as neutral as you might expect it to be.
  
 Maybe you can audition your HD800 with other gear before getting rid of it? Anyways, best of luck with your decision.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Exactly. If you can get your hands on a hugo for trial do it. There are venders who do returns. I did this with the ak240. And it's good I did. Hahaha. 
Al


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> Exactly. If you can get your hands on a hugo for trial do it. There are venders who do returns. I did this with the ak240. And it's good I did. Hahaha.
> 
> Al



 


You didnt keep AK240 ? you could just collect them as a collection item (lcd3)..


----------



## ALRAINBOW

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/gordon-rankin-says-im-wrong-about-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-cable-sound-20814/

A must read for our usb cables. Where's that IEEE guy when you need him. Come on mr president. Read and help,us morons and I mean me understand what is wrong or right in the cables we all use. 
Al


----------



## ALRAINBOW

canadian411 said:


> alrainbow said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly. If you can get your hands on a hugo for trial do it. There are venders who do returns. I did this with the ak240. And it's good I did. Hahaha.
> ...




As hard as I tried I could not give myself a really good reason. I know I should of tried harder. It was the sound that got me in the end. And the iphone 5 I had already collecting dust from the drawer so a very tuff deal to pass up. Lmao. Funny guy 
Al


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/gordon-rankin-says-im-wrong-about-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-cable-sound-20814/
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Thanks Al, good article, able to extract this info.

http://www.usb.org/developers/compliance/

and,,

Trust your ears." - Wilma Cozart Fine

I trust only my ears.
I don’t trust my eyes, I don’t trust ABX/DBT protocols, I don’t trust name brands, I don’t trust price, I don’t trust measurements, I don’t trust reviewers, I don’t trust salespeople. I try for myself with a money-back satisfaction guarantee or I pass. This is what works for me, I cannot speak for anyone else.

trust my friend, trust


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Exactly why the AK240 went back. If imjust read the reviews and ownership threads I would have two of them. 

Al


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> Exactly why the AK240 went back. If imjust read the reviews and ownership threads I would have two of them.
> 
> Al


 
  
 Yape, AK240 is such a beautiful device, but can't afford $2.5k, better to invest in real estate.
 But I don't mind having it at lower price (under $500) loll.


----------



## preproman

zoom25 said:


> At the end of the day, if you don't like it move on. Don't put yourself through something you don't like just because it's supposed to sound good. However, I'd like to point out that the HD800 is one of the most sensitive to gear changes. More than any planar or dynamic I've owned or tried so far. The sound can change quite quickly with different gear.
> 
> I use HD800 with studio gear exclusively. All flat DACs and headphone amplifiers. Neither make them sound harsh or thin. In fact quite full. More so than LCD-3's slow sound. I've heard dark gear like LCD-2's and LCD-3 get more aggressive and unbearable in the treble region due to bad amps or DAC pairings…BDA-2/BHA-1 combo being one of them. Yet the HD800 can pull it off in the treble while being super resolving.
> 
> ...


 
 Your saying the BHA-1 / BDA-2 makes the treble in the LCD-2 and LCD-3 aggressive and unbearable?  Whoa..  That's the first I've heard that.  I thought the BHA-1 and the LCD-3 was a good pairing when I owned them.  Never heard them with the BDA-2 though.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Let me put this spin on it. If it sounded like the hugo and worked like the AK240 I would have paid 3500 usd. For it and laughed at who ever did not buy it. It's all about the sound for me first. Then convince hence the old guy on the subway witha small shoulder pack. As I do not want this setup. It is by far the best mobile setup I have ever heard with my own damn ears. 
Al


----------



## Canadian411

Stop it Al. 

More and more I want the hugo. Sad that I cannot audition in canada. But one day


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Ok ok sorry


----------



## ALRAINBOW

By the way they hate me on the hugo thread I keep saying it's the best portable. DAC amp combo. This drives some crazy and I really do not know why


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> By the way they hate me on the hugo thread I keep saying it's the best portable. DAC amp combo. This drives some crazy and I really do not know why




Eh? I don't get it. Isn't it best portable dac? Not sure why they hate you there.


----------



## Zoom25

preproman said:


> Your saying the BHA-1 / BDA-2 makes the treble in the LCD-2 and LCD-3 aggressive and unbearable?  Whoa..  That's the first I've heard that.  I thought the BHA-1 and the LCD-3 was a good pairing when I owned them.  Never heard them with the BDA-2 though.


 
  
 Not the LCD-2. The LCD-3 balanced, yes. I had to keep turning down the volume because of the treble. I'd describe it as a high end, refined and polished Emotiva Mini-x but still sharing it's aggressiveness. Although with D2000 on single ended was very pleasing. When I switched the BDA-2 to Arcam D33, the BHA-1 became much more enjoyable. There was also another Naim gear tried it with and that also sounded as nice and was in the middle of those two.
  
 It was a very tight, fast combo to listen though - excellent imaging. Just a tad too aggressive and didn't win me over. I've met few people that also said they didn't like the BHA-1 due to it's aggressiveness - some even at the latest Toronto meet.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Three reasons come to mind first off I say best porible. This implies it is. As some consider it the best at everything and I am leaving out desktop home systems. 
Next is I have say I have better dacs. And I do but the contention goes back to the best ever again. 
And lastly it's pitched a little high and a little bright . Now put the two together it's a little thin and makes voices and instruments we know well sound a little off. This is also true but not to the holier than though hugo fan boys. So I am the black son all hates but must put up with too. As we are all family with the hugo. Lamo. Hope ypu can understand my points


----------



## Maxvla

matttcg said:


> I'm thinking of upgrading my dac specifically for the 800. I currently have the bifrost uber running over optical. I'm considering the Matrx X Sabre. Any thoughts?



Love the pairing. Only other DAC I will try is the Yggdrasil, merely out of respect for Mike Moffat.


----------



## preproman

zoom25 said:


> Not the LCD-2. The LCD-3 balanced, yes. I had to keep turning down the volume because of the treble. I'd describe it as a high end, refined and polished Emotiva Mini-x but still sharing it's aggressiveness. Although with D2000 on single ended was very pleasing. When I switched the BDA-2 to Arcam D33, the BHA-1 became much more enjoyable. There was also another Naim gear tried it with and that also sounded as nice and was in the middle of those two.
> 
> It was a very tight, fast combo to listen though - excellent imaging. Just a tad too aggressive and didn't win me over. I've met few people that also said they didn't like the BHA-1 due to it's aggressiveness - some even at the latest Toronto meet.


 
  
 Yeah to me the BHA-1 and the HD800 were a no go..  Maybe it was the BDA-2.  Peter seems to like it very much.


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> Three reasons come to mind first off I say best porible. This implies it is. As some consider it the best at everything and I am leaving out desktop home systems.
> Next is I have say I have better dacs. And I do but the contention goes back to the best ever again.
> And lastly it's pitched a little high and a little bright . Now put the two together it's a little thin and makes voices and instruments we know well sound a little off. This is also true but not to the holier than though hugo fan boys. So I am the black son all hates but must put up with too. As we are all family with the hugo. Lamo. Hope ypu can understand my points


 
  
 I get it, i see some stu*k up people there.  Don't you have Lampizator Big 7 ? that's pretty good to have and certainly better than Hugo 
 You should do side by side review  Lamp vs Chord Hugo. 
  
 For me portable is limited, can;t really compete with the full size. (American way lol, - from canadian)


----------



## kkcc

preproman said:


> Yeah to me the BHA-1 and the HD800 were a no go..  Maybe it was the BDA-2.  Peter seems to like it very much.




Ditto. BDA2+BHA1 is also a no go for me with any of the lcd3, hd800, or hd6. It just sound dry and flat (as in lifeless). And I also think the BDA2 is the culprit here as I had heard M7+bha1 with hd800 and quite like it. Guess may be I just not liking the very monitor type of sound. But still the bryston stack is to me much more bearable than the O2+odac, which I find overly harsh and bright with anything maybe besides the lcd2.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I do have the lampi B7 and these people still. Will,not back off so I do not say it anymore. It's hugo is the greatest thread there and rob watts cured cancer or some other incurable disease. . 
Al


----------



## Zoom25

preproman said:


> Yeah to me the BHA-1 and the HD800 were a no go..  Maybe it was the BDA-2.  Peter seems to like it very much.


 
 Yeah unfortunately I could try the BDA-2 with other amps. The place I auditioned it, the rack was built in a way making it nearly impossible to remove the BDA-2 from the chain. BHA-1, BDA-2, BDP-2, a Bryston power supply along with a PS Audio Powerplant. I'm not sure which gear was the culprit when I auditioned it. I tried literally the exact counterpart with NAD (amps, power amps, integrated power amps, DACs, power supply, digital media player). All the NAD gear I tried come to be more neutral. Very nice with Luxman, PrimaLuna and EAR combos.
  
 Also, BDA-2 I tried it with it on the native mode. The up sampling was a turn off to me and the dealers as well. Too much smoothed over sound. Who knows.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

zoom25 said:


> Yeah unfortunately I could try the BDA-2 with other amps. The place I auditioned it, the rack was built in a way making it nearly impossible to remove the BDA-2 from the chain. BHA-1, BDA-2, BDP-2, a Bryston power supply along with a PS Audio Powerplant. I'm not sure which gear was the culprit when I auditioned it. I tried literally the exact counterpart with NAD (amps, power amps, integrated power amps, DACs, power supply, digital media player). All the NAD gear I tried come to be more neutral. Very nice with Luxman, PrimaLuna and EAR combos.
> 
> Also, BDA-2 I tried it with it on the native mode. The up sampling was a turn off to me and the dealers as well. Too much smoothed over sound. Who knows.




What IS all,this bda stuff the only BADA STUFF I KNOW IS BADABING 
AL


----------



## Zoom25

kkcc said:


> Ditto. BDA2+BHA1 is also a no go for me with any of the lcd3, hd800, or hd6. *It just sound dry and flat (as in lifeless)*. And I also think the BDA2 is the culprit here as I had heard M7+bha1 with hd800 and quite like it. Guess may be I just not liking the very monitor type of sound. *But still the bryston stack is to me much more bearable than the O2+odac*, which I find overly harsh and bright with anything maybe besides the lcd2.


 
 +1.
  
 The BHA-1 and BDA-2 was mostly neutral with slight aggressiveness, but the main thing that put me off was that it took out the life out of the music. Other studio gear I've tried the HD800 with were neutral and musical at the same time. I really wish I had more knowledge in electrical engineering and could measure and conduct my experiments to explain.


----------



## James-uk

zoom25 said:


> +1.
> 
> The BHA-1 and BDA-2 was mostly neutral with slight aggressiveness, but the main thing that put me off was that it took out the life out of the music. Other studio gear I've tried the HD800 with were neutral and musical at the same time. I really wish I had more knowledge in electrical engineering and could measure and conduct my experiments to explain.


 
 i once read that studio gear has high output impedance on headphone outputs. maybe its the high output impedance thats causing a change in the damping factor and therefore changing the sound to your taste? just a thought.


----------



## Zoom25

james-uk said:


> i once read that studio gear has high output impedance on headphone outputs. maybe its the high output impedance thats causing a change in the damping factor and therefore changing the sound to your taste? just a thought.


 
 Hmmm, maybe. Although on the DM Source, I have driven low impedance Denon's and Shure IEMs to 300 ohm HD800 and 600 ohm Beyer's. Only for T1, did I find the DM Source to not be a good match. Up to the HD800, it was quite effective.
  
 I checked the manual, there's no numbers directly on the headphone output, only on the other outputs. I usually do check for how much power they can output and impedance output for impedance mismatch, but after hearing all the main headphones sound good, I kinda forgot. I guess I could ask the guys at DM for the numbers.


----------



## qqexpress

Hey guys I am moving from high-fi gear (I had a HD800) to mid-fi and was wondering what you thought about the HD700 in comparison to the HD800. So far I am using an AKG K701 in the mean time, to satisfy my needs, but the headband doesn't sit right with me =(. Would like some opinions on the HD700 sound signature and is $475 for it a good deal?!


----------



## LugBug1

The HD800 are high impedance so they really should be powered by high impedance amps. But even this is a very grey area. Grey, because impedance variances can make dramatic differences to the sound and therefore can become almost like a EQ when using different amps of varying impedance. I suspect that the Sennheiser amp is matched perfectly (haven't heard) but one designers perfect is not always going to be anothers.. 
  
 I've personally found that very powerful high impedance amps work best with 300 ohm cans.


----------



## SilverEars

lugbug1 said:


> The HD800 are high impedance so they really should be powered by high impedance amps. But even this is a very grey area. Grey, because impedance variances can make dramatic differences to the sound and therefore can become almost like a EQ when using different amps of varying impedance. I suspect that the Sennheiser amp is matched perfectly (haven't heard) but one designers perfect is not always going to be anothers..
> 
> I've personally found that very powerful high impedance amps work best with 300 ohm cans.


 
 I believe output impedance has less dependant for high impedance loads.  I think the output impedance is looked into because of it's affect on the 
 FR of the load(the headphones).  For audio signals, which is much lower than RF signals, possibly impedance value has a good affect for small loads such as iems, but not so for larger loads, and with the large loads the frequency variations of the output impedance can be ignored.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  I will ask in the science forum, it seems like a great question.
  
 Since RF signals are so high, there is a model for the resistor.  Notice the resistor starts have inductance and capacitance as it gets up to high frequencies, but for audio signal this model is generally ignored.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Output imp only matters if there is two factors involved. One is a cross over if so it great effects the sound . Next is if the imp is such that not enough power can be given to properly drive the headphone. 
Al


----------



## SilverEars

alrainbow said:


> Output imp only matters if there is two factors involved. One is a cross over if so it great effects the sound . Next is if the imp is such that not enough power can be given to properly drive the headphone.
> Al


 
 yes, that too.  The cross over is affected because the cross over consists of impedance which filters the signal to send to the respective drivers.  If you change the value by adding the output impedance, that filter will change.  Also filters have phase response.  Just look up filter and phase, and you will see it's not linear phase.
  
 Next, if you have high output impedance of a phone, that impedance will dissipate energy, which means the load(headphones) will not get as much power as if there was no output impedance.


----------



## magiccabbage

maxvla said:


> Love the pairing. Only other DAC I will try is the Yggdrasil, merely out of respect for Mike Moffat.


 
 Yes the YGG is one that i am also interested in.  cant wait for comparisons between it and the Hugo.


----------



## SilverEars

Has anybody done a tone sweep by listening in?  How was the outcome of the HD800?  What EQ are you guys using?  Which frequencies are you boosting or dropping?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Honestly info not use eq with the hd800! And the hdvd800 as a amp. It's about the DAC at this point. But the eq is very Hindy for the lcd3 .

Al


----------



## LugBug1

IME high current- low impedance amps make the HD800 sound clinical. Not necessarily in a bad way.. But not as full bodied or what I would call 'natural' sounding as when they're amped with loads'o power/voltage. But this has been my experience with other high impedance cans as well.
  
 Lets not forget that the HD800's are extremely sensitive! Plug em into any old amp and they _can_ get very upset and start shrieking !!


----------



## SilverEars

So, I've been giving it various sources and checking how the 800 responds, and it seems you have to give it well sampled source or should we say well mastered.  It's great an all that the well mastered source sounds great, but typically if it's well mastered it pushes the potential of any phones and sounds the best for the particular phone.  My NT6 sound extraordinary with well mastered tracks at the same time for those was wasn't mastered the same such as electronica or pop, it still brings out the best in the recording.  Although some recordings are not done as well as others, but the intention is not sound sound so bad.  I've heard people say it puts out how bad the recording is, but realistically these recordings are not as bad as some of the these headphones are putting out.


----------



## Priidik

silverears said:


> Has anybody done a tone sweep by listening in?  How was the outcome of the HD800?  What EQ are you guys using?  Which frequencies are you boosting or dropping?


 
 Using Yulong Dacs (D100 and DA8) and their built in amps plus an old Marantz amp i get nasty peaks in treble region both from freq sweeps and music. Then i used JRiver built in parametric eq, it sounded best to me. I dropped 7kHz q=4 and 10.5kHz q=8 both -4dB.
 Initially i tried high shelf attenuation or low shelf gain not more than 3dB, but then the resulting sound was clearly not neutral. 
  
 Then i used the DA8 DAC's xlr outs as balanced drive, it is higher impedance (z) i belive, some 40 ohms i think, the peaks were reduced.
 Also HDVD800 (or HDVA600) and a Leben tube amp (which was surprisingly neutral appart from bass, which was slow and mushy) gave me no glare in the highs and no peaks at all. 
 I'm not sure about the Leben output impedance, its designed to drive speakers so its got to be low, a few ohms max, but the Senn amp has 40 something ohms output impedance, so i think the output impedance is not the main contributor to peakless sound production, more experienced members might know better.


----------



## LugBug1

silverears said:


> So, I've been giving it various sources and checking how the 800 responds, and it seems you have to give it well sampled source or should we say well mastered.  It's great an all that the well mastered source sounds great, but typically if it's well mastered it pushes the potential of any phones and sounds the best for the particular phone.  My NT6 sound extraordinary with well mastered tracks at the same time for those was wasn't mastered the same such as electronica or pop, it still brings out the best in the recording.  Although some recordings are not done as well as others, but the intention is not sound sound so bad.  I've heard people say it puts out how bad the recording is, but realistically these recordings are not as bad as some of the these headphones are putting out.


 
 This is a good point and I would say needs some careful deliberation. 
  
 'Hifi' headphones have always (generally) been designed with the intent to make music sound good. Not as a clean window onto what is actually there. But with a headphone like the HD800 you can easily get used to hearing what is actually there...,? and it _can_ be more enjoyable from an 'audiophile' perspective. Good recordings are good, bad ones are bad.  
  
 As far as I can see these hp's have one small, little flaw... A little peak at 6khz. They aren't perfect. But IME that one slight peak cannot cause annoyance unless the recording is already bad or you are sensitive to high frequencies. With the exception of Audeze and Senn's previous flagship most other quality hp's are peakier in the treb than the HD800.
  
 (anyways, I'm enjoying reading your journey with HD800's


----------



## SilverEars

Many people are saying that tube amps makes the harshness go away so what makes sense to do?  I looked up FR for audio tube amps.  The few I've seen, they roll off on the the high end, so that could be why people like the tube amps with the HD800.  This is really telling.  
  
 I'm not as conclusive on the tube amps rolling off yet.  Anybody know where I can find bunch of tube amp FR graphs?


----------



## MattTCG

I've tried the 800 with the lyr...technically not a true tube amp but a hybrid. The pairing was not good. Tomorrow, it's full on OTL with the CRack.


----------



## SilverEars

lugbug1 said:


> This is a good point and I would say needs some careful deliberation.
> 
> 'Hifi' headphones have always (generally) been designed with the intent to make music sound good. Not as a clean window onto what is actually there. But with a headphone like the HD800 you can easily get used to hearing what is actually there...,? and it _can_ be more enjoyable from an 'audiophile' perspective. Good recordings are good, bad ones are bad.
> 
> ...


 
 I listen to certain kind of pop, and they sound quite distinctive from my awesomely well recorded Marantz audiophile test CDs.  They seem to share common output, treble is quite harsh and it's mostly vocals(so you'd expect vocal sibilance). There is that FR graphical animations that show up on Foobar.  It would be interesting to analyze the tracks to output what's the most common FR output of that track.  I'm sure that exists.


----------



## Maxvla

silverears said:


> Many people are saying that tube amps makes the harshness go away so what makes sense to do?  I looked up FR for audio tube amps.  The few I've seen, they roll off on the the high end, so that could be why people like the tube amps with the HD800.  This is really telling.
> 
> I'm not as conclusive on the tube amps rolling off yet.  Anybody know where I can find bunch of tube amp FR graphs?



They are basically just making up things. High end tube amps are often more 'solid state' than solid state. The only reason a tube amp would be more forgiving is if it were either poorly designed, or purposely altering the output, tuned to a coloration pleasing to the designer.

Some of the best HD800 combos seem to be with Craig's amps from Eddie Current, such as the Super 7, Zana Duex, 445, and Balancing Act, which tend towards the 'solid state' type of sound, unless deliberately tube tuned otherwise.


----------



## SilverEars

maxvla said:


> They are basically just making up things. High end tube amps are often more 'solid state' than solid state. The only reason a tube amp would be more forgiving is if it were either poorly designed, *or purposely altering the output, tuned to a coloration pleasing to the designer.*
> 
> Some of the best HD800 combos seem to be with Craig's amps from Eddie Current, such as the Super 7, Zana Duex, 445, and Balancing Act, which tend towards the 'solid state' type of sound, unless deliberately tube tuned otherwise.


 
 Interesting read on Frequency Response Shaping.
  
 http://fredsvtablog.blogspot.com/2012/06/basic-frequency-response-shaping.html


----------



## SilverEars

I had them on reverse.  Flipped L and R the whole time.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Maybe this would make a big difference.


----------



## LugBug1




----------



## Maxvla

silverears said:


> I had them on reverse.  Flipped L and R the whole time.     Maybe this would make a big difference.



LMAO


----------



## SilverEars

lugbug1 said:


> This is a good point and I would say needs some careful deliberation.
> 
> 'Hifi' headphones have always (generally) been designed with the intent to make music sound good. Not as a clean window onto what is actually there. But with a headphone like the HD800 you can easily get used to hearing what is actually there...,? and it _can_ be more enjoyable from an 'audiophile' perspective. Good recordings are good, bad ones are bad.
> 
> ...


 
 I agree with this.  I need to EQ this out. I checked with the stock Foobar EQ, and it seems to be between 5 and 7.  Is there a good plug-in for Foobar?  Also, it's really bass light, kinda reminds me of the K701.  You know what, HD800 just remind of the 701 with it's signature.  
  
 I think my auditory system reacting negatively to the 6khz peak is probably to protect my ears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Maybe my ears are extremely sensitive to that area.  I cannot turn up the volume for tracks that outputs this frequency region.


----------



## LugBug1

silverears said:


> I agree with this.  I need to EQ this out. I checked with the stock Foobar EQ, and it seems to be between 5 and 7.  Is there a good plug-in for Foobar?  Also, it's really bass light, kinda reminds me of the K701.  You know what, HD800 just remind of the 701 with it's signature.
> 
> I think my auditory system reacting negatively to the 6khz peak is probably to protect my ears.
> 
> ...


 
 http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_dsp_xgeq
  
 Check this one out bud  It's better for fine tuning.


----------



## SilverEars

lugbug1 said:


> http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_dsp_xgeq
> 
> Check this one out bud  It's better for fine tuning.


 
 Thanks.  The EQ is reversed like my preference of how I like to wear my HD800, when I boost, it reduces.  Dunno why.


----------



## SilverEars

Actually, all it's doing is reducing the volume when I boost the dB at any frequency.


----------



## LugBug1

silverears said:


> Actually, all it's doing is reducing the volume when I boost the dB at any frequency.


 
 Thats to stop clipping. Always try to reduce frequencies rather than increase if you can


----------



## SilverEars

lugbug1 said:


> Thats to stop clipping. Always try to reduce frequencies rather than increase if you can


 





  Thanks, you are quite right.  The harshness is gone without the EQ and the bass got lifted.  What.  I dunno if this plug-in did something or my ears got adjusted after I put it on in the correct polarity.


----------



## SilverEars

silverears said:


> I had them on reverse.  Flipped L and R the whole time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


lugbug1 said:


>


 


maxvla said:


> LMAO


 
  
 It sounds lots different now.  Sounds like the harshness is gone.  Polarity makes a difference.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I check back the other way around, and definitely hear more mids and definition now.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I think you will say anything. To hold onto the ODAC 
Thing. Hahahaha. Just kidding 
Al


----------



## SilverEars

alrainbow said:


> I think you will say anything. To hold onto the ODAC
> Thing. Hahahaha. Just kidding
> Al


 
 I love my ODAC just like you like your Hugo.  Something about it's sound, I just really love.  It plays well with my amps so I can't complain.  I like the fact this little guy keeps me satisfied without me opening my wallet too wide.  ODAC is very clear and detailed as verified with many iems and of course cans.  I'm sure Hugo is nice, but I don't predict if there is even a margin of improvement, it would be quite insignificant since I like the ODAC so much.  
  
 Anyway.  I'm enjoying the HD800 now that I'm wearing them correctly.  I characterize it has detailed and clear or very resolving, and I am in sync with the folks in this thread at this point.  I actually did this at the meet also, wearing these things backward.  Anyway, problem solved.
  
 Now, back to enjoying them.


----------



## bearFNF

qqexpress said:


> Hey guys I am moving from high-fi gear (I had a HD800) to mid-fi and was wondering what you thought about the HD700 in comparison to the HD800. So far I am using an AKG K701 in the mean time, to satisfy my needs, but the headband doesn't sit right with me =(. Would like some opinions on the HD700 sound signature and is $475 for it a good deal?!


 

 Here, I'll bump your post for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, Once they stop the sound science discussions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 maybe someone with knowledge in this area will answer for you. 
 Unfortunately I do not have the answer as I have not heard the HD700...the price looks good if they are in good condition, IMHO.


----------



## Canadian411

$475 for hd700 is awesome deal. I will get it for fun.

But honestly, why you are going downhill from hd800 ? 

Its like a car. You start from corolla then to bmw theb to porsche etc.

I don't get it,.  
Jk

Everyone has diff reason  and priority


----------



## qqexpress

Thanks guys for getting back to me! Im just trying to downsize cuz I am not using them as often as I would like. And extra money in my pocket might be better than a glorified showcas in my room. I wouldn't feel as bad with a $500 headphone and such. Can you guys give any comments on the sibilant or 6khz spike? Is it as bad as some say cuz I know tyll (from innerfidelity) rates the hd700 very poorly.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

It's all in fun enjoy


----------



## SilverEars

Enjoying this track right now.  I dunno why, but I enjoy this track alot. I like Mariah's husky voice, brings out the treble textures.  Her recordings could be so much better with a better producer, she has the voice for it.


----------



## bearFNF

>


 
  


silverears said:


> I dunno why, but I enjoy this track alot. I like Mariah's husky voice.


 

 I like that picture, A Lot, thanks for posting it... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh and the song is good, too.


----------



## bearFNF

qqexpress said:


> Thanks guys for getting back to me! Im just trying to downsize cuz I am not using them as often as I would like. And extra money in my pocket might be better than a glorified showcas in my room. I wouldn't feel as bad with a $500 headphone and such. Can you guys give any comments on the sibilant or 6khz spike? Is it as bad as some say cuz I know tyll (from innerfidelity) rates the hd700 very poorly.


 

 try this:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/713773/sennheiser-hd-700-vs-hd-800-for-me-the-newbie
  
 I just did a simple search for "hd800 vs hd700"
 Amazing how well that works, you know, searching the forum...just sayin'


----------



## SilverEars

bearfnf said:


> I like that picture, A Lot, thanks for posting it...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I would post lots of pictures like that, but I think AnakChan will replace it will his selfie or something as he has done that before.  I was not happy because I had the most perfect picture of Kate Upton on one of the posts and was very proud of it.  That thunder was stolen when AnakChan posted picture of him wearing HE-560 with something inside in bosom.  Anak != Kate Upton.


----------



## Canadian411

qqexpress said:


> Thanks guys for getting back to me! Im just trying to downsize cuz I am not using them as often as I would like. And extra money in my pocket might be better than a glorified showcas in my room. I wouldn't feel as bad with a $500 headphone and such. Can you guys give any comments on the sibilant or 6khz spike? Is it as bad as some say cuz I know tyll (from innerfidelity) rates the hd700 very poorly.




I live in toronto and I auditioned hd700 many times. 

For the second time I went, hd700 had a broken left driver and unbalanced left and right issue. It was either repaired or replaced twice while other headphones like d2000, hd59x were still working.

Hd700 is poorly built. You can tell and feel the plastic, it feels like a toy and I am sure I can crush with just two fingers.

That is probably the main reason I didn't buy. And also sound qualitywise, its just flat and boring compare to hd800.

I suggest you to audition at local store before you buy.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

The hd800 are top of the food chain if you will. So anything below that is less of something. It's that simple. No other camp y has as many ever than senn in production headphones. In fact I think just what they have in production is way more than most headphone makers ever have made period. What I do not understand is a reviewer lie tyle says bad things about a headphones sound when it must better than a LCD 2 that he loves. No reviewer says bad things about a mush company for fear of being suied I guess. But go after a big name that's easy there a faceless company and more likely barly know who he is. 
Al


----------



## Canadian411

silverears said:


> Enjoying this track right now.  I dunno why, but I enjoy this track alot. I like Mariah's husky voice, brings out the treble textures.  Her recordings could be so much better with a better producer, she has the voice for it.




I am sorry I couldnt listen more than a min but I can watch the album cover for very very longtime


----------



## qqexpress

Ah I see. More or less I just wanted to figure out if the HD700 was worth the price of ~$500. My friend auditioned them and told me they were not worth $700-$1000. I may just give it a try and see how it goes, worse that can happen is I resell them.


----------



## SilverEars

canadian411 said:


> I am sorry I couldnt listen more than a min but I can watch the album cover for very very longtime


 
 Just focus on the music folks, the picture is just a bonus, it the not the main course.  So try to make the music the main course please.  Think of the cover as the desert and concentrate on the music.


----------



## SilverEars

Ok, I do agree electronic and pop is good on these.  Enjoying Billie Jean (Remastered).  So dynamic.


----------



## SilverEars

Wow, the HD800 just hit me.  Emotional moment...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I highly recommend the remastered Michael Jackon albums, especially, Michael Jackon BAD Special Edition.  It's ridiculously well mastered, and of course the HD800 is doing a fantastic job.  I wasn't a Michael Jackson fan until I heard these.


----------



## potkettleblack

Gentleman,
  
 I know that i'm gonna get heads shaken at me for this; but I'm planning on buying the hd800 at some point, and was wondering, if you were to pick a portable amp/dac-amp to drive it, which one would it be?
  
 This is for use with my laptop.
  
 I did a trial of the hd700 today and was disappointed (in the grand scheme of things - for how much they cost), but saw great potential. 
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## koiloco

^ a budget will help us help you narrow down some choices.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

HUGO


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> Your saying the BHA-1 / BDA-2 makes the treble in the LCD-2 and LCD-3 aggressive and unbearable?  Whoa..  That's the first I've heard that.  I thought the BHA-1 and the LCD-3 was a good pairing when I owned them.  Never heard them with the BDA-2 though.


 
 That's definitely the character of the BHA-1. Many have reported as such and that mirrors my experiences with it. The BDA-2 is neutral and if you don't like it, then blame your headphones or amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With the GS-X Mk2 (about the very best amp at DAC comparisons I've come across) the BDA-2 is one balanced/neutral DAC. The W4S DAC-2 Sabre based DAC was a touch too much up top (with an upper mids shout)...the PWD2 was a tad too "warm" to be considered "flat". It (BDA-2) had better bass response than the NAD M-51 and the treble was about equally smooth on both DACs.
  
 The BHA-1 is a fantastic amp, but it does add a bit to the top when compared to other amps. But it's a great recommendation for Audeze headphones like the LCD-2/3s IMO.


----------



## potkettleblack

koiloco said:


> ^ a budget will help us help you narrow down some choices.


 
 True. Thank you.
  
 £2-300.
  
 Ideally portable.


----------



## longbowbbs

macedonianhero said:


> preproman said:
> 
> 
> > Your saying the BHA-1 / BDA-2 makes the treble in the LCD-2 and LCD-3 aggressive and unbearable?  Whoa..  That's the first I've heard that.  I thought the BHA-1 and the LCD-3 was a good pairing when I owned them.  Never heard them with the BDA-2 though.
> ...


 
 I have to get you a listen to the upgraded W4S DAC2 DSDse, Peter....The shout is gone....


----------



## MacedonianHero

longbowbbs said:


> I have to get you a listen to the upgraded W4S DAC2 DSDse, Peter....The shout is gone....


 
 Still on my list...looks like they tweaked the analog section to account for the "shout". But you'll agree it was definitely there on the original DAC-2...and the Peachtree amp/dacs that used it (plus a few more that I've heard).


----------



## longbowbbs

macedonianhero said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I have to get you a listen to the upgraded W4S DAC2 DSDse, Peter....The shout is gone....
> ...


 
 It had an edge...I have been very pleased with the new version. The Femto clock addition was a nice plus as well!


----------



## MacedonianHero

longbowbbs said:


> It had an edge...I have been very pleased with the new version. The Femto clock addition was a nice plus as well!


 
 Definitely on my "to listen to" list. Glad to hear the DAC-2DSDse is a good improvement over the original!


----------



## longbowbbs

macedonianhero said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > It had an edge...I have been very pleased with the new version. The Femto clock addition was a nice plus as well!
> ...


 
 Meanwhile I'll keep the mason jar handy for spare change toward the dCS stack...


----------



## MacedonianHero

longbowbbs said:


> Meanwhile I'll keep the mason jar handy for spare change toward the dCS stack...


 
 Spare change...might take a while.


----------



## longbowbbs

macedonianhero said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Meanwhile I'll keep the mason jar handy for spare change toward the dCS stack...
> ...


 
 It's OK....I opened a savings account at current interest rates.....How does that "Rule of 72" work again.....


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Reg the DS. I Do not understand why people play PCM up sampled to DSD. 
I am sure they feel it sounds better. For me I play all as is. 
But the DS. Is a fine DAC and I have it about 6 weeks now 
Al


----------



## Canadian411

alrainbow said:


> Reg the DS. I Do not understand why people play PCM up sampled to DSD.
> I am sure they feel it sounds better. For me I play all as is.
> But the DS. Is a fine DAC and I have it about 6 weeks now
> Al




Oh my. How many dacs do you have Al ? Seems like you have everything!!!

Let me know if you are looking to sell at a "friendly" price ..


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I know I am complicated 

Al


----------



## Currawong

potkettleblack said:


> Gentleman,
> 
> I know that i'm gonna get heads shaken at me for this; but I'm planning on buying the hd800 at some point, and was wondering, if you were to pick a portable amp/dac-amp to drive it, which one would it be?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Something from Leckerton might be in your budget. I'm not sure what the exchange rate is, but I liked the ALO Audio PanAm with the Passport battery power supply with them. Other than the Hugo, my favourite at the moment is the Centrance M8 using the balanced output.


----------



## kkcc

currawong said:


> Something from Leckerton might be in your budget. I'm not sure what the exchange rate is, but I liked the ALO Audio PanAm with the Passport battery power supply with them. Other than the Hugo, my favourite at the moment is the Centrance M8 using the balanced output.




Another odd ball choice would be hifiman's 901 with balanced card. Like it better than the M8 but given the price /w the amp card you may just pay up a bit more and go for Hugo. Well you do save on having a source and interconnects with the 901 I suppose...


----------



## Currawong

I think that'd be way out of his budget though. 
  
 Oh, I forgot: The Geek Out would be excellent too.


----------



## 62ohm

macedonianhero said:


> That's definitely the character of the BHA-1. Many have reported as such and that mirrors my experiences with it. The BDA-2 is neutral and if you don't like it, then blame your headphones or amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Does this mean you don't like the BHA-1 when paired with HD800?


----------



## MacedonianHero

62ohm said:


> Does this mean you don't like the BHA-1 when paired with HD800?




I like it enough, but it wouldn't be my first choice for the HD800s. I love it with the LCD-2/3, but for the HD800s, I prefer the Soloist and V200 instead (in the same-ish price range).


----------



## 62ohm

macedonianhero said:


> I like it enough, but it wouldn't be my first choice for the HD800s. I love it with the LCD-2/3, but for the HD800s, I prefer the Soloist and V200 instead (in the same-ish price range).


 
  
 What about the HDVA 600? Would you rate it above, or bellow the BHA-1 for HD800?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Sorry, I h





62ohm said:


> What about the HDVA 600? Would you rate it above, or bellow the BHA-1 for HD800?




Sorry, I haven't heard that amp yet.


----------



## 62ohm

May I ask what makes you prefer the V200 over the BHA-1? And thanks for the insights mate


----------



## lin0003

Interesting, I thought that the BHA-1 was supposed to be better than the V200. I own a V200 and I was actually considering "upgrading" to the BHA-1.


----------



## 62ohm

I am currently planning to upgrade my amp to something (Solid State) that I can consider "good enough to be end-game" and while the original candidates were V200, Mjolnir, HDVA600 and BHA-1, I have ruled out Mjolnir and V200. I guess the V200 is back in the play then...


----------



## Maxvla

lin0003 said:


> Interesting, I thought that the BHA-1 was supposed to be better than the V200. I own a V200 and I was actually considering "upgrading" to the BHA-1.



BHA-1 is an upgrade to the V200, IMO.


----------



## lin0003

I suppose I'll have to give it a try first.


----------



## Maxvla

magiccabbage said:


> what would be your fav electronic albums on HD800?



There are so many, but one standout favorite is Mr. Bill - The Collaborative Endeavors. (free in FLAC/MP3).

One track from it I really enjoy particularly with HD800s is #10 Abba Ridge. It showcases the detailed treble with the great bass extension with many layers of sound upon each other, but clearly delineated.


----------



## LugBug1

maxvla said:


> There are so many, but one standout favorite is Mr. Bill - The Collaborative Endeavors. (free in FLAC/MP3).
> 
> One track from it I really enjoy particularly with HD800s is #10 Abba Ridge. It showcases the detailed treble with the great bass extension with many layers of sound upon each other, but clearly delineated.


 
 Hey thanks for this link, really enjoying it!


----------



## magiccabbage

maxvla said:


> There are so many, but one standout favorite is Mr. Bill - The Collaborative Endeavors. (free in FLAC/MP3).
> 
> One track from it I really enjoy particularly with HD800s is #10 Abba Ridge. It showcases the detailed treble with the great bass extension with many layers of sound upon each other, but clearly delineated.


 
 sweet


----------



## Canadian411

maxvla said:


> BHA-1 is an upgrade to the V200, IMO.




But bha-1 is not a "fully balanced" amp.

Not sure v200, how about going with mono blocks?


----------



## preproman

canadian411 said:


> *But bha-1 is not a "fully balanced" amp*.
> 
> Not sure v200, how about going with mono blocks?


 
  
 Why isn't it?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

preproman said:


> Why isn't it?



Single ended gain stage, two gang pot, phase splitter before the output


----------



## Canadian411

preproman said:


> Why isn't it?




I can be wrong but isn't it balanced input then converted to SE then back to balanced out? 

Not a "true" balanced or I should say "fully" balanced amp.?


----------



## Canadian411

souprknowva said:


> Single ended gain stage, two gang pot, phase splitter before the output




You beat me


----------



## longbowbbs

preproman said:


> canadian411 said:
> 
> 
> > *But bha-1 is not a "fully balanced" amp*.
> ...


----------



## Sorrodje

maxvla said:


> One track from it I really enjoy particularly with HD800s is #10 Abba Ridge. It showcases the detailed treble with the great bass extension with many layers of sound upon each other, but clearly delineated.


 
  
 Downloaded and Im' currently listening to this music.  Abba Ridge is indeed an exemplary track to show how the HD800 can perform so well for EDM .


----------



## MacedonianHero

62ohm said:


> What about the HDVA 600? Would you rate it above, or bellow the BHA-1 for HD800?





62ohm said:


> May I ask what makes you prefer the V200 over the BHA-1? And thanks for the insights mate




I found the BHA-1 a bit forward and thus not ideal with the hd800s. The V200 is a smoother amp without overly forward treble and a better match. For Audeze headphones, it's the other way around.


----------



## SilverEars

macedonianhero said:


> I found the BHA-1 a bit forward and thus not ideal with the hd800s. The V200 is a smoother amp without overly forward treble and a better match. For Audeze headphones, it's the other way around.


 
 I haven't heard the 3, but I believe Audeze needs a mid bump and it would be perfect.  Now that I have my HD800 on correctlly, I've noticed that the treble is still not to my liking, and just needs to tame the treble around 6-8k area.  It comes out too aggressive for me, that it causes a stressful listening session.  I listen to music to relax.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I've tried EQ, but possibly I need to learn to EQ better with better software as EQ is not helping that much.  The tonality with how the treble is done is off to me.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

The stress is the DAC. Hahahaha. 
At least try another one for while. The thing is all DAC allow you youngest all the music 
But the presentation us the change. Most blame it in music or amps but the DAC s. Are the most likely cause. 
Al


----------



## MickeyVee

When I auditioned the BHA-1, I found it very forward with very sharp highs.. and that's with the Naim DAC-V1 in front of it.  Not the sound signature that I'm looking for but some people do really like it.  As always, audition it if you can.
 Tried the HDVD800 in SE mode and it was good, but not great.. Still on my list and going to give it a shot with a balanced cable.
  
 Quote:


macedonianhero said:


> I found the BHA-1 a bit forward and thus not ideal with the hd800s.


----------



## SilverEars

alrainbow said:


> The stress is the DAC. Hahahaha.
> At least try another one for while. The thing is all DAC allow you youngest all the music
> But the presentation us the change. Most blame it in music or amps but the DAC s. Are the most likely cause.
> Al


 
 I don't get why I have to get a new DAC for it.  My other phones don't have problems with it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I like my ODAC, if the HD800 has problems with it, it's own problem, not the DAC's.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Are the one witha odac ? 
If so it glares. And it does this at the treble range. Imam not looking for ypu to spend money imam really not. But just trya another DAC on trial and return it weather you liked it or not. In this way you will understand what is really going on here. 
Pm some people how to do this one store that does this is BH PHOTO IN NYC. If you can find a hugo it's all,you need as it is an amp and DAC. I am sure someone knows a place to let you do audition at home . You know they sell you a used demo one you try it and then return it and buy a new one if and when you are ready. The hd800 is not just a good headphone it's a fantastic headphone. But it's like your playing your music ona 10 turntable . It will show all the good but all the bad. So if you have more bad then good this is what happens. Please do not take offense to this I a faking the time to try and help you that's all. You have to do it cause you wish to . But tying things from others as long as it does not force you to spend your money is fine by me. As long ad you can return it no money is spent. But the lesson is learned . 
Al


----------



## SilverEars

alrainbow said:


> Are the one witha odac ?
> Al


 
 Yes, I've gone through all my iems, LCD2.2, HE-6, and other cans with it.  And given, I'm having problems with treble with only HD800, who is to blame?  Unless it's rolled off, I'm pretty sure the next DAC is going to be more or less the same.


----------



## Sorrodje

@SilverEars : you shouldn't have any serious problem with an odac.  What kind of music are you listening to usually ?


----------



## Canadian411

What do you think about the nuforce ha200 mono block?

So cheap that I can afford two


----------



## ALRAINBOW

silverears said:


> Yes, I've gone through all my iems, LCD2.2, HE-6, and other cans with it.  And given, I'm having problems with treble with only HD800, who is to blame?  Unless it's rolled off, I'm pretty sure the next DAC is going to be more or less the same.



Now you have peaked my interest. What amp are you using , is the same amp with all the cans and IEM,s ?

Al


----------



## SilverEars

sorrodje said:


> @SilverEars : you shouldn't have any serious problem with an odac.  What kind of music are you listening to usually ?


 
 pop music.  I posted previously that audiophile recordings are much better, but they are good on any setup because it was well mastered.  pop  music has that aggressive treble depending on what you listen to.  The vocals pushes the treble very aggressively for pop vs lets say an Eva Cassidy recording or something that is well done.  
  
 I just want it to play nice with pop also.


----------



## SilverEars

alrainbow said:


> Now you have peaked my interest. What amp are you using , is the same amp with all the cans and IEM,s ?
> 
> Al


 
 For the HE-6, LCD2.2, HD800, the Beta 22.  For iems, O2


----------



## Sorrodje

silverears said:


> pop music.  I posted previously that audiophile recordings are much better, but they are good on any setup because it was well mastered.  pop  music has that aggressive treble depending on what you listen to.  The vocals pushes the treble very aggressively for pop vs lets say an Eva Cassidy recording or something that is well done.


 
  
 Stay away from the HD800.    you'll invest time & money and at the end you won't obtain good results. There re so much good other headphones who do Pop Music better.. why do you want absolutely listen to pop music with a HD800 ?


----------



## SilverEars

sorrodje said:


> Stay away from the HD800.    you'll invest time & money and at the end you won't obtain good results. There re so much good other headphones who do Pop Music better.. why do you want absolutely listen to pop music with a HD800 ?


 
 If I get a headphone, I want it to perform well on everything.  So far the headphones that I've run into, they all scale the music nicely until I ran into the 800.  Looking at your sig.  I can see 800 is for you,  but not me.  I'm not big fan of Beyers because of their treble, and I would think the 800 has the same sound sig.
  
 I'm very sensitive to brightness, and HD850 will be more in the lines of what I probably seek.  
  
 Anyway, I'm glad I tried the HD800, now I have a good idea that not all cans are differentiated form iems(I felt this way for HE-6, it feels difficult to compare to iems because of it's characteristic, but HD800 is not that distinctive from it.).  The treble on the HD800 sound like BA iem treble that are typically on the cold side.


----------



## nephilim32

I'm experiencing som incredible sonic joy as well as all of you with the HD 800's being the generals in my sound chain. Simply I live for and love progressive Rock, and currently I'm enjoying IQ's THE ROAD OF BONES. It's a decent recording, but the level of the 800's articulation of overall soundstage is pushed so forward with precise clarity and accuracy. I of course have what I think is an incredible DAC with the ARCAM irDAC and the amazingly neutral sound of the Burson Soloist has made this a match made in heaven for my sound tastes. It's been a life changing experience for me and I'm currently revisiting some of all time favourite albums because quite simply i am hearing so much more than I previously did with previous equipment. 

The one album that I was truly blown away with was the highly produced Elyzium by Fields Of The Nephilim from former pink Floyd producer, Andy Jackson. I can really listen to this loud with such clarity. Even on the 2nd gain setting with the Burson soloist.


----------



## SilverEars

By the way, I can say HD800 shines with Michael Jackson's BAD album Sepecial Edition.  It's very very dynamic and airy probably because of the remaster.  I don't know if it's the HD800 helping, but I know the mastering is done purposely for such dynamics for sure.  Have a listen.  But, dat treble. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  My ears cannot adjust to it's treble, it's too much.  I have other phones, and my ears adjust, and I don't hear the brightness anymore, but the 800's brightness just stands out even after long listen.  It's way too forward for me.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I can say the hd800 is not for all music and neither is my speaker systems. In striving for the so called elite best this is a side step back ward. To hear everything is to not like some of it. That what the LCD 3 or your two,is for. And for me I cannot go from the lcd3 to the hd800 while going from great hi Rez and low Rez on the hd800. It's kinda shocking. I listen to about the whole gamet of genres. From Hendrix to nirvana to zz top and all the jazz greats too. Some music even when played on my 35 k msb DAC and all the other stuff after still stinks and gets played low. It's just the way it is. Good music is good reproductive devices . Crap music is for cheap ear buds so they hide just how bad it is. I have some foo fighters stuff love the music but not the quality I can listen to it but he thinks analog and noise is cool as such his recordings are not very good . And then I have some Janis japlin that's great go figure. I have some robin trower and it's good some other stuff and it stinks. Some bands never made anything hinrez but we love the music . Try the lesser headphones for the other stuff. Also the Roxanne's are a bit upper recessed they are a good choice for the lesser stuff too. 
Al


----------



## koiloco

sorrodje said:


> Stay away from the HD800.    you'll invest time & money and at the end you won't obtain good results. There re so much good other headphones who do Pop Music better.. why do you want absolutely listen to pop music with a HD800 ?


 
 Personally, I find HD800 excellent with pop music.  Your "better" will greatly depend on personal preference but then, I can't listen to heavy metal on HD800 at all.


----------



## SilverEars

I tried EQ'ing, but something is not right.  I don't like to EQ because although I'm trying to take away something, it's taking something else away with it.  For example, I EQ certain part of the treble, and it would recess the vocals a bit.  I have heard headphones with forward vocals, but not aggressive if that makes sense.  There is a difference between details standing out and being aggressive.  I don't like aggressive, and 800 has those characteristics I don't like.  It doesn't fee like a relaxing listening session with vocals centric music.  Music with well recorded traditional instrumentation it does well though.
  
 I listen to everything, pop, hip-hop, jazz, blues, alternative, electronica, classical, vocals.  I prefer well mastered of all genres though.


----------



## koiloco

silverears said:


> I tried EQ'ing, but something is not right.  I don't like to EQ because although I'm trying to take away something, it's taking something else away with it.  For example, I EQ certain part of the treble, and it would recess the vocals a bit.  I have heard headphones with forward vocals, but not aggressive if that makes sense.  There is a difference between details standing out and being aggressive.  I don't like aggressive, and 800 has those characteristics I don't like.  It doesn't fee like a relaxing listening session with vocals centric music.  Music with well recorded traditional instrumentation it does well though.


 
 What's in your chain as far as DAC/Amp?


----------



## SilverEars

koiloco said:


> What's in your chain as far as DAC/Amp?


 
 Computer > ODAC > 2 Channel Beta 22 > HD800
  
 I've tried the O2 amp before and it sounded horrendous.


----------



## SilverEars

koiloco said:


> Personally, I find HD800 excellent with pop music.  Your "better" will greatly depend on personal preference but then, *I can't listen to heavy metal on HD800 at all*.


 
 I can picture this as the treble is quite aggressive and forward and I would predict you would get fatigued very quick.


----------



## koiloco

From my own research before purchasing HD800, I remember that ODAC should be alright for DAC but I am not sure about the Beta 22.
 I did find the HD800 a little too forward with my WA22 (stock tubes).  Then after upgrading the WA22 tubes, everything balanced out nicely.
 It's quite hard to get the low end on the HD800 to increase! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Where about are you in the US?  If you are near by where I am, you are welcomed to bring your HD800 over for a spin on my setup.


----------



## nephilim32

james-uk said:


> Agreed. The more I listen to other headphones or speakers , the more apparent the gap in quality becomes.




It's because of the dynamics. The 800's are so accurate at recreating a live soundstage. 
They are painfully accurate, so much so they really expose ****ty recordings and makes you appreciate certain audio engineers and producers. For me, Alan Parsons and Bob Ludwig are really up there.


----------



## SilverEars

koiloco said:


> From my own research before purchasing HD800, I remember that ODAC should be alright for DAC but I am not sure about the Beta 22.
> I did find the HD800 a little too forward with my WA22 (stock tubes).  Then after upgrading the WA22 tubes, everything balanced out nicely.
> It's quite hard to get the low end on the HD800 to increase!
> 
> ...


 
 Year I hear tube amps, and probably because of the characteristics of being less aggressive.  Anyway, I don't believe in flagships being finicky with amps for DACs, it feels like you are fixing something broken.


----------



## nephilim32

silverears said:


> I can picture this as the treble is quite aggressive and forward and I would predict you would get fatigued very quick.




Yeah. They (the 800's) are painfully accurate. Demanding for long term listening at first but the human ear does adapt over time. I can now listen to the 800's for hours and hours at a time.


----------



## whirlwind

I listened to Pink Floyd, the Wall album, this morning......grinning from ear to ear thru the whole album....just incredible


----------



## ALRAINBOW

silverears said:


> Computer > ODAC > 2 Channel Beta 22 > HD800
> 
> I've tried the O2 amp before and it sounded horrendous.




Hahahaha. And i wonder why the DAC should be ok then. 

Just a thought. 
Al


----------



## koiloco

silverears said:


> Year I hear tube amps, and probably because of the characteristics of being less aggressive.  Anyway, I don't believe in flagships being finicky with amps for DACs, it feels like you are fixing something broken.


 
 For me, i would say the HD800 is DAC/Amp "sensitive", rather than saying finicky or picky.  HD800 is so transparent that whatever upstream will come right through.  It's a matter of finding the upstream components that will give you the end results that you are satisfied with. Otherwise, it's an endless search.


----------



## SilverEars

nephilim32 said:


> Yeah. They (the 800's) are painfully accurate. Demanding for long term listening at first but the human ear does adapt over time. I can now listen to the 800's for hours and hours at a time.


 
 I don't find it to be accurate.  I find it to be boosted treble which gives the perception of providing details.  Try AB'ing.  I have a CIEM which is known to be refence with it being very detailed and clear, and  to my ears are way more accurate than the HD800.  I personally think, it's not that HD800 is revealing flaws, it's just the way the treble is done, very artificial that the reason why a popular recording doesn't sound right.  Tonally it doesn't sound accurate and it lack warmth which takes away from realism.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I have two places. One in NYC and the other in NC. 
AL


----------



## ALRAINBOW

What CIEM ??


----------



## nephilim32

kheadfi said:


> I have the same feeling.
> The Doug MacLeod download is fantastic.
> The Sound Liaison studio master downloads are all 24/96 except one,which is 24/88.2. I think they are the best sounding files I have got for the HD800 together with some of the Reference Recordings.The sound of their albums is quiet similar to the Doug MacLeod you mentioned.
> They all so give credit to the HD800 for being used for mixing and mastering. http://www.soundliaison.com/




Such a wonderfull example. I certainly like to retain some order of warmth in my music listening. Actually sometimes I have a hard time deciding on weather to opt for the standard 16/44k red book cd quality or the slightly more refined and polished 24/192. You know it depends on the initial recording. Some music recordings need added resolution to comply nicely with your high end gear. Anyway, I'm a huge Fields of The Nephilim fan and some albums in their catalog really benefit greatly with a 24/192k bitstream. The soundstage is pushed forward wonderfully without having to provide volume overkill.


----------



## SilverEars

alrainbow said:


> What CIEM ??


 
 Hidition NT-6
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/589208/hidition-nt-6-custom-iem-review-the-ultimate-reference
  
 http://theheadphonelist.com/headphone_review/hidition-nt-6/
  
 http://theheadphonelist.com/headphone-list/#


----------



## pearljam50000

@ALRAINBOW
Could you please compare HD800 to your Stax 009?


----------



## nephilim32

matttcg said:


> In theory I would disagree with your logic. 24/192 should be closer to analogue and thus should sound closer to the original recording. But in reality, I agree with you. 24/96 just sounds more musical to my ears...certainly warmer. The differences are small but there IMHO.




Pretty weird I know, but that is what our ears hear and tell us. It's nice to tinker with the options for resolution though. A very fun and rewarding trail and error process. Overall in my experience when listening to 5.1 surround sound audio format through my home cinema I think 24/96 is more than adequate. Music never sounded better outwardly.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

I have done this already. Look up
My posts. In simple terms. Te hd800 is thicker in note and 90 percent of the minute details. 
And the hd800 has more body overall. In the t end you get better than 90 percent of the style at a fraction of the cost. 
Had I had the two together I would not own the setup 
And just stood with the hd800. I also have the he 60. In fact I like them more. 
Although the details goes to the stax. In listening over time we want real not just the extreme details. 
So the hd 800 is as far you can go without leaving this earth and rising above real for sacrifice of details. 
Ok now my head hurts from all thus deep thought 
By 
Al


----------



## SilverEars

kheadfi said:


> I have the same feeling.
> The Doug MacLeod download is fantastic.
> The Sound Liaison studio master downloads are all 24/96 except one,which is 24/88.2. I think they are the best sounding files I have got for the HD800 together with some of the Reference Recordings.The sound of their albums is quiet similar to the Doug MacLeod you mentioned.
> They all so give credit to the HD800 for being used for mixing and mastering. http://www.soundliaison.com/




 These are the type of audiophile tracks I'm talking about.  They are not aggressive.  
  
 Anyway, I like vocals so like treble very much.


----------



## Zoom25

HD800 not good for pop? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 More like the best for pop IME. Best mids and best everything…at least under $2000.


----------



## SilverEars

zoom25 said:


> HD800 not good for pop?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I just prefer it with other phones and I don't think of them as mid tier.  If you like pop with 800, it's your preference like any other.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Recording has the most significant affect though.


----------



## magiccabbage

maxvla said:


> There are so many, but one standout favorite is Mr. Bill - The Collaborative Endeavors. (free in FLAC/MP3).
> 
> One track from it I really enjoy particularly with HD800s is #10 Abba Ridge. It showcases the detailed treble with the great bass extension with many layers of sound upon each other, but clearly delineated.


 
 Just listened there, yea it sounds incredible.


----------



## skeptic

My guess is that your issue is amp based silverears. There have been a lot of comments over the years suggesting that many folks simply don't love the pairing of hd800s and b22 for whatever reason. Frankly, low impedance SS amps in general are probably less than ideal from the standpoint of (arguably) overdamped bass. 

Sennheiser certainly knows how to make a ~0 ohm out SS amp (nwavguy showed just how cheap and easy this is to accomplish), yet they selected 40 ohms for their own amp, and assuming it is a push pull on the balanced jack, that will double when you run it off the xlr. My strong suspicion about why so many advocate balanced is that they like a little extra in the bottom end even though, all things considered, balanced hp amps spec out worse at twice the cost (susy designs being the exception). 

Same principles apply to tube amp recommendations (and vintage stereo amps). The better, high end, more dynamic tube amps from EC, ecp, bottlehead etc. still tend to have middling output impedance specs that bump the bass a tad - particularly given the huge impedance spike at 100hrz on the hd800s curve. 

Purrin has a fascinating thread on this on one of those other sites we're not permitted to link directly. Bottom line, many of the folks who feel the hd800s are overly lean, sharp, bass light yada yada are probably running low impedance SS amps. 

Mine sound just okay from my agdr boosted o2, good from my modded crack, and awesome from my mainline. On the flip side of the coin, my old woo otl was too tubey, lacking in dynamics and slow sounding for me to enjoy with hd800s.


----------



## SilverEars

skeptic said:


> My guess is that your issue is amp based silverears. There have been a lot of comments over the years suggesting that many folks simply don't love the pairing of hd800s and b22 for whatever reason. Frankly, low impedance SS amps in general are probably less than ideal from the standpoint of (arguably) overdamped bass.
> 
> Sennheiser certainly knows how to make a ~0 ohm out SS amp (nwavguy showed just how cheap and easy this is to accomplish), yet they selected 40 ohms for their own amp, and assuming it is a push pull on the balanced jack, that will double when you run it off the xlr. My strong suspicion about why so many advocate balanced is that they like a little extra in the bottom end even though, all things considered, balanced hp amps spec out worse at twice the cost (susy designs being the exception).
> 
> ...


 
 So should I add an impedance adapter of 40ohms at the output to my beta? What is the difference from me adding 40 to a 0 output impedance?  This output impedance could shift the response, if that's their intention of their amp is for as the HD800's impedance graph shows that it varies compared to a planar graph which is perfectly flat.  That's not the kind of headphones I was hoping for.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

It's not that simple. I have tried the hd800 with many amps. From the woo wa22 to the woo wa 5 , a stratus A krell speaker amp a aragon speaker amp 
And whole bunch of headphone amps. It never sounded bad to me . As long ad the DAC was good and the music. However it does sound better with some. Even the mytek DAC amp is ok and it had about 10 ohms and I had it removed for CIEM use. The point is why I don't know. But it does and going by the threads it matters more with other amps. But I do suspect other things that unless were done in front of me to here I will not comment on. Tubes in general are tuby unless you get good tubes and I hate tuby. The difference from stock to top shelf is big really big. Tubes all glow but wow do they make changes. The amp you have I do not know. 
The hdvd800 as an amp is fantastic with them. And I would welcome anyone to come to me with something better on my dacs and music to see if its true. I am sure there equal and maybe better but I do believe it's about desire at that point.


----------



## SilverEars

I'm out, these are return for me.  I'm back to HE-6.  There is too much contrasting views with amps in this thread.  I call it as HD800 is not for me.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Relax it's not very long that you at this. And aside from the headphones there must be something that can be done. The hd800 is a true holy grail headphone you have on your head or hands. Stay with it. Reg a-posing views well par for the course every where and every thing in life. If you put 10 people in a room and said lets paint the walls a new color it would takes weeks to decide . Look at the shows on tv no one thinks the same as you or I do . Chill and enjoy what sounds great and use the other phones for the rest. Now this all will agree with . 

Al


----------



## magiccabbage

alrainbow said:


> Relax it's not very long that you at this. And aside from the headphones there must be something that can be done. The hd800 is a true holy grail headphone you have on your head or hands. Stay with it. Reg a-posing views well par for the course every where and every thing in life. If you put 10 people in a room and said lets paint the walls a new color it would takes weeks to decide . Look at the shows on tv no one thinks the same as you or I do . Chill and enjoy what sounds great and use the other phones for the rest. Now this all will agree with .
> 
> Al


 
 Al you are like a Headfi councilor these days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 its funny to watch


----------



## ALRAINBOW

More like jack Nicolas in one flew over the cookoos nest. 
Hahahahah


----------



## Sorrodje

silverears said:


> If I get a headphone, I want it to perform well on everything.  So far the headphones that I've run into, they all scale the music nicely until I ran into the 800.  Looking at your sig.  I can see 800 is for you,  but not me.  I'm not big fan of Beyers because of their treble, and I would think the 800 has the same sound sig.


 
  
  
 I don't like Beyers because of their treble too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . I had problems with the HD800 treble too but I solved the problem quickly with adequate dac & amp ( not expensive ones : old Dacmagic and a Meier Corda Jazz) . I can listen to everything ( even pop music) with my HD800 but if my main listens was pop music , i wouldn't choose the HD800 for sure because I think that Pop & Rock is more enjoyable with for example a HE500 or a HD600 or a LCD3 .


----------



## skeptic

silverears said:


> So should I add an impedance adapter of 40ohms at the output to my beta? What is the difference from me adding 40 to a 0 output impedance?  This output impedance could shift the response, if that's their intention of their amp is for as the HD800's impedance graph shows that it varies compared to a planar graph which is perfectly flat.  That's not the kind of headphones I was hoping for.


 
  
 Sadly, Al's dead on that it isn't this simple.  Impedance adaptors are great for dropping the noise floor if you're plugging IEM's into an android phone with audible hiss (which can also alter FR), but this is still totally distinct, from an electrical engineering perspective, from changing the output impedance of the amp or changing the impedance of the transducers.  The adaptor is just a pair of inline (series) resistors - most similar, in fact, to using a very poor aftermarket headphone cable that measures as having high resistance.
  
 All that said, I'd also encourage you to hang on to those hd800's and assess for another couple of weeks.  They can really grow on you.  I also think that you might be an ideal candidate to try out the anax mod, as an alternative to considering different amps.  Takes about 2 hours (including the trip to the craft store) and $10 dollars to give it a go.  Prior to getting my mainline up and running, I generally preferred mine with the mod.  Templates and youtube video available here: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod


----------



## LugBug1

silverears said:


> I'm out, these are return for me.  I'm back to HE-6.  There is too much contrasting views with amps in this thread.  I call it as HD800 is not for me.


 
 Yeah as Al said, its very early days. You actually have in your mortal hands the greatest dynamic headphone in history. Tis true!! 
  
 But as I told you in an earlier post, you either want a classic 'Hifi' headphone that will colour to please.. Or a headphone that is true to the recording and your source. 
  
 If you are a music lover and audiophile then the latter is indispensable. If you are a music lover foremost and nothing else matters, then the former.


----------



## SilverEars

skeptic said:


> Sadly, Al's dead on that it isn't this simple.  Impedance adaptors are great for dropping the noise floor if you're plugging IEM's into an android phone with audible hiss (which can also alter FR), but this is still totally distinct, from an electrical engineering perspective, *from changing the output impedance of the amp or changing the impedance of the transducers. * The adaptor is just a pair of inline (series) resistors - most similar, in fact, to using a very poor aftermarket headphone cable that measures as having high resistance.
> 
> All that said, I'd also encourage you to hang on to those hd800's and assess for another couple of weeks.  They can really grow on you.  I also think that you might be an ideal candidate to try out the anax mod, as an alternative to considering different amps.  Takes about 2 hours (including the trip to the craft store) and $10 dollars to give it a go.  Prior to getting my mainline up and running, I generally preferred mine with the mod.  Templates and youtube video available here: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod


 
 Can you explain what the difference is?  The way I understand it, the output impedance is still in series with the load.   Modding is not what I'm looking for in a TOTL headphone.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

lugbug1 said:


> Yeah as Al said, its very early days. You actually have in your mortal hands the greatest dynamic headphone in history. Tis true!!
> 
> But as I told you in an earlier post, you either want a classic 'Hifi' headphone that will colour to please.. Or a headphone that is true to the recording and your source.
> 
> If you are a music lover and audiophile then the latter is indispensable. If you are a music lover foremost and nothing else matters, then the former.




Yea what he said. I get so confused with talk like that. But I love reading it anyway.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

It's in parallel not Sieres. And it's complicated.


----------



## SilverEars

lugbug1 said:


> Yeah as Al said, its very early days. You actually have in your mortal hands the greatest dynamic headphone in history. Tis true!!
> 
> But as I told you in an earlier post, you either want a classic 'Hifi' headphone that will colour to please.. Or a headphone that is true to the recording and your source.
> 
> If you are a music lover and audiophile then the latter is indispensable. If you are a music lover foremost and nothing else matters, then the former.


 
 Looking at the FR, all headphones have color.  There difference from HE-6 to this is that the impedance is very skewed, wouldn't this cause color?  Is the treble peak not 800's characteristic or color?  Isn't it's tonality characteristic a color?


----------



## SilverEars

alrainbow said:


> It's in parallel not Sieres. And it's complicated.


 
 Explain, I can understand it.  I know the basic principles.


----------



## LugBug1

silverears said:


> Looking at the FR, all headphones have color.  There difference from HE-6 to this is that the impedance is very skewed, wouldn't this cause color?  Is the treble peak not 800's characteristic or color?


 
 True true. All hp's are coloured to some extent as this is unavoidable. But some headphones are coloured to mask upper FR or to add extra bass (which is very pleasing for pop music for e.g). I'm talking relatively.. As we all know nothing is uncoloured.


----------



## pearljam50000

The HD800 is only for hardcore audiophiles that want the truth...good or bad...


----------



## MattTCG

I have my 800's plugged into the BHC for the first time. Firing up my test tracks. Just played Doug MacLeod: Black Nights 24/96. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think I just wet myself a little. Anyone who says the 800 is bass light needs to listen to this setup. Dayum...that bass!!!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

silverears said:


> Explain, I can understand it.  I know the basic principles.




Not sure what your question is. If it's how to increase the output imp. That not the way. That us showing g how to attenuate a headphone amp for lowering the noise floor or allowing to use more of the volume control. 
A simple resister I series would add output imp. But it will not help or if it does it's just going to make something g else worse. Vs is the amp and VL. is your headphone. So parraell but it's not the point. It's about the amps reaction ass well as the headphones. I am not flaming to know or under stand it. But I have played to hear the changes. 
Al


----------



## SilverEars

alrainbow said:


> Not sure what your question is. If it's how to increase the output imp. That not the way. That us showing g how to attenuate a headphone amp for lowering the noise floor or allowing to use more of the volume control.
> *A simple resister I series would add output imp. But it will not help or if it does it's just going to make something g else worse.* Vs is the amp and VL. is your headphone. So parraell but it's not the point. It's about the amps reaction ass well as the headphones. I am not flaming to know or under stand it. But I have played to hear the changes.
> Al


 
 If you think this is the case than you can explain what the output impedance of the amp is then.  What is it?  What is in the circuit configuration is that output impedance?  Can you explain how it is making it worse?


----------



## skeptic

My apologies SilverEars - I think I got it wrong above.  Per the engineers in the thread below (if you can piece together the points on which they agree) - it looks like resistors in series do effectively raise output impedance, so maybe that would give you the same result as say the ouput from the Senn amp.  I should try it with my modded o2 and the impedance adaptor I have on hand later on.
  
 It looks like it is when you use a resistor network to try and lower output impedance that things get really complicated because you are also changing the load.  Start in the middle of the page and read the back and forth between Chris J and Steve Eddy, continuing on to the next page of the thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/601669/impedance-adapters-cables-explained-listed/15


----------



## James-uk

silverears said:


> Looking at the FR, all headphones have color.  There difference from HE-6 to this is that the impedance is very skewed, wouldn't this cause color?  Is the treble peak not 800's characteristic or color?  Isn't it's tonality characteristic a color?




A headphone FR shouldn't be flat. This is because a headphone frequency response should mimic the frequency response of a pair of speakers that have a flat FR at the driver. Once this flat frequency travels through a room to ou ears it isn't flat anymore . The HD800 was designed around this principle and the treble spike at 6-8khz is representative of what happens to a neutral speaker in a room. The big question is what Room are we in? Is it big or small? Treated or not ? Does it have rear walls close to the subject etc etc. this all plays a part on the perceived FR. SENNHEISER settled on the HD800 FR Based on their ideal room . This is subjective and open for debate,every headphone maker has their own 'ideal room' FR CURVE and it's up to each of us to decide which one we like.


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> I have my 800's plugged into the BHC for the first time. Firing up my test tracks. Just played Doug MacLeod: Black Nights 24/96.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yuuuup - the HD800 are capable of seriously good bass when fed right. There's no hump and the sub goes as low as a snakes phallus.


----------



## Maxvla

silverears said:


> I'm out, these are return for me.  I'm back to HE-6.  There is too much contrasting views with amps in this thread.  I call it as HD800 is not for me.



Lol. You think there are differences of opinion on HD800 amps. HE-6 owners are in a league of their own.


----------



## SilverEars

james-uk said:


> A headphone FR shouldn't be flat. This is because a headphone frequency response should mimic the frequency response of a pair of speakers that have a flat FR at the driver. Once this flat frequency travels through a room to ou ears it isn't flat anymore . The HD800 was designed around this principle and the treble spike at 6-8khz is representative of what happens to a neutral speaker in a room. The big question is what Room are we in? Is it big or small? Treated or not ? Does it have rear walls close to the subject etc etc. this all plays a part on the perceived FR. SENNHEISER settled on the HD800 FR Based on their ideal room . This is subjective and open for debate,every headphone maker has their own 'ideal room' FR CURVE and it's up to each of us to decide which one we like.


 
 Yes, Golden Ears Apply compensation for their perceived FR.  The compensation could depend on who measures the headphone, weather it's Tyll or Golden Ears or Sean Olive.


----------



## icebear

alrainbow said:


> More like jack Nicolas in one flew over the cookoos nest.
> Hahahahah


 

 Are we in the asylum here now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I thought that was somewhere else 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## James-uk

matttcg said:


> I have my 800's plugged into the BHC for the first time. Firing up my test tracks. Just played Doug MacLeod: Black Nights 24/96. :eek:  I think I just wet myself a little. Anyone who says the 800 is bass light needs to listen to this setup. Dayum...that bass!!!




DAT BASS!!!!!!! It's like it comes from nowhere and is perfectly located in the image all at the same time. It's a beautiful thing.


----------



## James-uk

silverears said:


> Yes, Golden Ears Apply compensation for their perceived FR.  The compensation could depend on who measures the headphone, weather it's Tyll or Golden Ears or Sean Olive.




But ultimately the compensation comes down to your perception . a compensation curve is representative of what someone else has decided is neutral, it's a guide to help understand how a headphone may sound to you or I. One mans flat is another's bloated bass. It's down to an individual's own ideal 'room' sound as to whether a headphone sounds neutral.


----------



## koiloco

magiccabbage said:


> Al you are like a Headfi councilor these days
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## koiloco

matttcg said:


> I have my 800's plugged into the BHC for the first time. Firing up my test tracks. Just played Doug MacLeod: Black Nights 24/96.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You sure it's only a "little"


----------



## Sorrodje

james-uk said:


> But ultimately the compensation comes down to your perception . a compensation curve is representative of what someone else has decided is neutral, it's a guide to help understand how a headphone may sound to you or I. One mans flat is another's bloated bass. It's down to an individual's own ideal 'room' sound as to whether a headphone sounds neutral.


 
  
  
 Sooooo true


----------



## Sonido

matttcg said:


> I have my 800's plugged into the BHC for the first time. Firing up my test tracks. Just played Doug MacLeod: Black Nights 24/96.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Quickie or no Quickie?


----------



## SilverEars

james-uk said:


> But ultimately the compensation comes down to your perception . a compensation curve is representative of what someone else has decided is neutral, it's a guide to help understand how a headphone may sound to you or I. One mans flat is another's bloated bass. It's down to an individual's own ideal 'room' sound as to whether a headphone sounds neutral.


 
 Sean Olive has a new article this.  
  
 http://read.uberflip.com/i/324330/22


----------



## LugBug1

pearljam50000 said:


> The HD800 is only for hardcore audiophiles that want the truth...good or bad...


 
 True. But unfortunately this sometimes happens..
  

  
  
 Hehe but in all seriousness... 5 years in now with these headphones and if there is one word that consistently gets mentioned more than any other adjective- it is..
  
 "Transparency"


----------



## MattTCG

sonido said:


> Quickie or no Quickie?


 
  
 That's with no quickie...not yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Got to let my ears get acclimated. Maybe tomorrow.


----------



## James-uk

silverears said:


> Sean Olive has a new article this.
> 
> http://read.uberflip.com/i/324330/22




I brought the nad viso HP50 which fits the Harman curve closely and I didn't like it. Way too much bass. It got in the way of the mid range. IME the HD800 fits my personal taste , to me the HD800 is representing a perfect pair of speakers in a reference ('perfect ') treated room. The Harman curve to my ears represents a non treated room and therefore the bass frequencies are elevated. I can listen to my flat FR speakers in my lounge to achieve that and all the coloration that comes with it. I can understand why some find the HD800 unnatural etc because no one ever gets to hear perfect speakers in a perfect room. It took me a while to get used to it but now I get it and anything else is a compromise .


----------



## MattTCG

james-uk said:


> I brought the nad viso HP50 which fits the Harman curve closely and I didn't like it. Way too much bass. It got in the way of the mid range. IME the HD800 fits my personal taste , to me the HD800 is representing a perfect pair of speakers in a reference ('perfect ') treated room. The Harman curve to my ears represents a non treated room and therefore the bass frequencies are elevated. I can listen to my flat FR speakers in my lounge to achieve that and all the coloration that comes with it. I can understand why some find the HD800 unnatural etc because no one ever gets to hear perfect speakers in a perfect room. It took me a while to get used to it but now I get it and anything else is a compromise .


 
  
 That's high praise indeed. Just got into my pop selections for the 800. Modest Mouse is brilliant with these. Try "Blame it on the Tetons" if you want to loosen your molars.


----------



## SilverEars

lugbug1 said:


> True. But unfortunately this sometimes happens..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Do I have to wait 5 years for it to burn-in?


----------



## MattTCG

Took about five minutes for me.


----------



## James-uk

matttcg said:


> That's high praise indeed. Just got into my pop selections for the 800. Modest Mouse is brilliant with these. Try "Blame it on the Tetons" if you want to loosen your molars.




I will be sure to check that out once the football has finished. I'm due a check up at the dentist


----------



## LugBug1

silverears said:


> Do I have to wait 5 years for it to burn-in?


 
 You don't have too, but it may help in the long run


----------



## James-uk

silverears said:


> Do I have to wait 5 years for it to burn-in?  :eek:




It took nearly 2 years for my brain to 'burn' in. These have changed the way I hear music. You may never get used to it but I hope you do try to get used to what these headphones are about. If and once you do you won't look back and your perception of sound will change forever. However you may never like it and that's fine. I've never heard the HE6 but I'm sure they are equal in quality but just have different approach to the 'ideal' sound. If you prefer that in the end you will still be getting equal pleasure that we get from HD800. I do hope you persist with them though because I'm glad I did.


----------



## SilverEars

Hopefully my ears will adjust as it did with HD650 which took a week.  I was perplexed for a week as it sounded veiled.  The thing is I had the K701 and Beyor 880 with it at the time.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Which explain why I kept hearing veil with them.  Basically my brain burned in over time.  I kept the 650, and had it for a long time.  It seems I'm more of a 650 guy.  I wonder if Senn will come up with a 850?
  
 It's obvious the 650 doesn't have big sound as the LCD when compared, so I would think it would be the same compared to 800.  So they can improve with better control and wider drivers.  I'm guessing the 800 has bigger drivers than the 600.


----------



## LugBug1

I had the 650's for 6 year.. It's hard to adjust to other hp's following those for sure. And look at our new arrival- the lovely MattTCG, a hardcore 650 fan. He's just wet himself with the hd800's bass!


----------



## ALRAINBOW

And now a word from another sponcer. 
RC stuff. We cannot just listen to music have sex and eat. Surely there must be something else we can do. 

Have fun other ways and the music sounds better later. 
And some JOHnney blue too. 
Al


----------



## MattTCG

Nice Benz...


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Forget the car. Sorry it's in the driveway. Any idea what HELI s they are. Or the remote. 
Al


----------



## LugBug1

Jezuz.. Thats a big car! towering over those helicopters. (ok I'll shut up now


----------



## MattTCG

Classical, acoustic pieces, folk and jazz...all take me to the promised land on the 800. My best recordings made the hair on arms stand up and the very best brought a tear to my eye. Gloriously good.


----------



## SilverEars

OK guys, tell me which track release tests headphone resolution.  Since all are saying the distinctive characteristic of the 800 being the ability resolve, surely you have heard it with a track that shows it's resolving ability.  Why do you think it's resolving?  Is it a particular track used?
  
 What's intersting about resolving phones is that you can listen to the sounds that you though was boring before will sound interesting.  I have Marantz audiophile collection have Jiangzhou drums performance and it's amazin!!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Never thought I would be into percussion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Anybody have super detailed percussion tracks?


----------



## James-uk

silverears said:


> OK guys, tell me which track release tests headphone resolution.  Since all are saying the distinctive characteristic of the 800 being the ability resolve, surely you have heard it with a track that shows it's resolving ability.  Why do you think it's resolving?  Is it a particular track used?
> 
> What's intersting about resolving phones is that you can listen to the sounds that you though was boring before will sound interesting.  I have Marantz audiophile collection have Zhangu drum performance and it's amazin!!!  :eek:   Never though I would be into percussion.    Anybody have super detailed percussion tracks?




Just because I was listening to them earlier, try some Eagles hotel California or hell freezes over.


----------



## LugBug1

This is a favorite tester recording for me. The clarity and dynamics can be amazing.


----------



## SilverEars

I recommend anything from *STS Digital*, they are mastering gods.  They made the Marantz audiophile tracks, and it's the most detailed tracks I've ever heard. One of my favorite test track that is Eric Clapton unplugged, I just like it because it has lots of different sounds going on around it.  Marantz is many times better though.


----------



## MattTCG

Sweet...just found this. Didn't even know I had it. Never listened to it. Time to cue it up...


----------



## SilverEars

matttcg said:


> Sweet...just found this. Didn't even know I had it. Never listened to it. Time to cue it up...


 
 There are several in the series, and it changes genres.  My favorite are the ones focused on acoustics, also the horn(you can hear all kinds of horn details, and you thought kind of blue was detailed?), and of course the 2009 one has the Jianzhou drums and all kinds of varieties that sound awsome.  It's amazing to say the least.  Didn't know mastering can be mastered.


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, cool. I've been wanting to pull the trigger on the hi-res version of Kind of Blue for quite some time. I suppose it's time.


----------



## bearFNF

alrainbow said:


> Forget the car. Sorry it's in the driveway. Any idea what HELI s they are. Or the remote.
> Al


 
 Walkera?
  
 And a JR 12x?


----------



## SilverEars

matttcg said:


> Okay, cool. I've been wanting to pull the trigger on the hi-res version of Kind of Blue for quite some time. I suppose it's time.


 
 I can say this.  When I first heard it, I thought it was kinda bland.  This was when I was starting out with low to mid fi. Was clueless why people here were into jazz genre. Then when I finally took a dive to high end that resolves like crazy, I realized why Kind of Blue was special, it's super detailed recording. I have the Japanese remastered.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

For anyone who wants some top stuff. 
I can Recomend a few. 
Red book. Count Basie kansis city shout 
On Pablo records. 

Next anything g by opus3 DSD downloads. 
Also most if anything on acoustic sounds. 
Also DSD tea for the Tillerman. 
Sad Lisa is a great track to show off your DAC. As it has strings 
Piano and multiple voices. If played well it is very good on the hd800. 
Also the red book is fantastic in dynamics and very good vocals and percussion 
If played well you can hear the brushes on the cymbals. Very cool stuff. 
If you do not hear the brushes or it sounds like air hissing 
This is the DAC or jitter. 
Al


----------



## pearljam50000

What's the best way to store the HD800 and prevent dust?
  
 EDIT: It's really annoying that sennheiser doesn't include an aluminum case like the T1 case.​


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Walkera rs please. That is garbage. The radio is a jr 12x. 
The HELI s were a align 250 fly barless. 
And the larger one is an Italian Mann it's a protos from the mother land. 
And thanks for answering. Very kind. 
Al


----------



## MattTCG

The box. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or grab a headphone cover that goes over your stand.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Silver ears. Post a link please. 
Is it avaluble on download 
Al


----------



## SilverEars

alrainbow said:


> Silver ears. Post a link please.
> Is it avaluble on download
> Al


 
 Look for Kind of Blue on SACD.  I have in PCM FLAC 24-88.  
  
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/kind-blue-dsd-v-pcm
  
 HD tracks has PCM and Acoustic Sounds has DSD, it say hi res, but not sure if it would be the same as the rip I have which is from Japanese SACD(I don't see why it would be different).  I have the Japanese SACD from 2007 PCM rip.


----------



## LugBug1

pearljam50000 said:


> What's the best way to store the HD800 and prevent dust?
> 
> EDIT: It's really annoying that sennheiser doesn't include an aluminum case like the T1 case.​


 
 You can leave your HD800 out 24/7 as long as you exfoliate 3 times a day  
  
  
 I keep mine in their box when I'm not at home. But dust is the last thing on the hit-list. A Wife who doesn't know how much they cost (God forbid) and a 2 year old that will happily use them to strangle the cat, oh and those grills make perfect scratch-posts!   
  
 Dust.. phhh


----------



## pearljam50000

What is more important with the HD800, the DAC or amp?


----------



## Maxvla

The recording.


----------



## SilverEars

I'm trying to figure these phones out, it's quite difficult.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I dropped 8k via EQ and it seems to reduce the harshness a bit.  The thing is my EQ for Foobar doesn't have 7k, anybody know of a good one that covers 7k?


----------



## Maxvla

Try JRiver. Free trial available if you don't have it already.


----------



## PleasantSounds

Electri-q is a parametric equalizer that will let you pick any frequency you wish. 
 Not the easiest to work with, but very flexible and the output quality is very good.


----------



## palmfish

alrainbow said:


> And now a word from another sponcer.
> RC stuff. We cannot just listen to music have sex and eat. Surely there must be something else we can do.
> 
> Have fun other ways and the music sounds better later.
> ...




I've tried flying RC helicopters but they are difficult to control. I prefer this...


----------



## SilverEars

I noticed my 8k drop didn't turn out too well.  By dropping 8k, and thus getting rid of the harshness, I'm also getting rid of some details or textures that's not related to the harshness.  The hashness is just really aggressive and forward, but there are also other information in that part of the spectrum that isn't harsh or aggressive that should be there. 
  
 It's perplexing how pop sounds the way it does and the audiophile tracks sound so much different.  The reason why this is perplexing is I have phones that resolve super well and audiophiles track sound very good, and so does pop. I don't think the explanation is as simple as it's bringing out the bad in the recordings.  There is something in the way the headphones's FR is causing certain sounds(some recording has their own frequency characteristics) to not sound well.   It's obviously the headphone's treble characteristics.  The treble definition seems to be dependent on the recording so cannot say it's not defined, it's just certain recordings it's not defined well.


----------



## Zoom25

Try Audirvana Plus if you're on Mac. What software are you currently using for music?


----------



## Kiats

A+ is good. Fidelia is not bad either. Save for its rather rudimentary library interface. Another one which I've had joy tweaking with is the JRiver Media Center.


----------



## SilverEars

zoom25 said:


> Try Audirvana Plus if you're on Mac. What software are you currently using for music?


 
 Foobar2K in Windows.


----------



## Zoom25

silverears said:


> Foobar2K in Windows.


 
 Can't help you with that one. On mac when using my external DAC, I definitely notice a positive difference if I use Audirvana Plus vs. iTunes' native processor to play the same music files.
  
 If you do end up using mac's, then I'd highly recommend Audirvana Plus. Best overall in terms of sound, UI, low processing consumption, and basically no crashing. There was Amarra, but I couldn't handle how many times it crashed and it's UI was beyond poor. Maybe it changed recently.


----------



## SilverEars

I just looked at LCD-3 graph, and it's the opposite of the HD800.  It dips around the area that would cause harshness.  I'm thinking this was intentional.  The exact spot I wanted to EQ down with the HD800 is dipped with the LCD-3.


----------



## SilverEars

I mentioned that the HD800's characteristics reminds me of the K701.   Look at the these, they are very close.
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK701.pdf
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf


----------



## PleasantSounds

> Originally Posted by *SilverEars* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I noticed my 8k drop didn't turn out too well.  By dropping 8k, and thus getting rid of the harshness, I'm also getting rid of some details or textures that's not related to the harshness.  The hashness is just really aggressive and forward, but there are also other information in that part of the spectrum that isn't harsh or aggressive that should be there.
> 
> It's perplexing how pop sounds the way it does and the audiophile tracks sound so much different.  The reason why this is perplexing is I have phones that resolve super well and audiophiles track sound very good, and so does pop. I don't think the explanation is as simple as it's bringing out the bad in the recordings.  There is something in the way the headphones's FR is causing certain sounds(some recording has their own frequency characteristics) to not sound well.   It's obviously the headphone's treble characteristics.  The treble definition seems to be dependent on the recording so cannot say it's not defined, it's just certain recordings it's not defined well.


 
  
 Looks like your issues could be driven by the slight ringing or resonance that HD800 produces above 6kHz. The Anaxilus mod that has been already recommended to you deals specifically with that. I have done it on my pair (it's completely reversible and cheap so why not) and am quite pleased with the result. But you have already discarded this option because you believe flagship headphones should be perfect...
  
  


> Originally Posted by *SilverEars* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> This is the same BS I have to put up with on the HD800 thread.  They said my DAC isn't good enough, and then my amp.  They said my amp has 0 output impedance and it should have 40??? What??
> 
> ...


 
  
 A lot of people have been trying to help you in many ways, but it seems you prefer going around the forums whining about it rather than trying to resolve the issue. So far the only real progress you have made was to stop wearing these headphones backwards. If it is all BS to you and you insist that the $20 DAC and a DIY amp is the right setup for one of the most revealing headphones then perhaps the best solution would be to give up and return to whatever you had before?


----------



## SilverEars

I'm done here, it's being returned.  I'm not modding or getting a new DAC or Amp.   I wasn't looking for something to mod or look for a DAC or Amp to fix the damn thing.


----------



## Maxvla

Done for the 4th time?


----------



## SilverEars

maxvla said:


> Done for the 4th time?


 
 I've been done with it, I was going to return it the first hour I listened to it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I can get my other phones to sound great with audiophile recordings.


----------



## 62ohm

I've never seen someone taking so much time just to make up his mind about whether he like an item or not...
  
 If I don't like something during the first hour of my experience with it, I wouldn't even bother with it now, would I?


----------



## SilverEars

62ohm said:


> I've never seen someone taking so much time just to make up his mind about whether he like an item or not...
> 
> If I don't like something during the first hour of my experience with it, I wouldn't even bother with it now, would I?


 
 You're right, I didn't bother with it.  I didn't buy a new DAC or amp or mod it, and I will return it.  Of course the advice here is to keep listening to it until it magically gets better.


----------



## whirlwind

matttcg said:


> Classical, acoustic pieces, folk and jazz...all take me to the promised land on the 800. My best recordings made the hair on arms stand up and the very best brought a tear to my eye. Gloriously good.


 




  
 I have not found much in my whole massive library that does not sound awesome, as long as it is a good recording.
  
 I also love the fact that i can play them pretty loud with absolutely no fatigue at all
  


pearljam50000 said:


> What's the best way to store the HD800 and prevent dust?
> 
> EDIT: It's really annoying that sennheiser doesn't include an aluminum case like the T1 case.​


 
 I store mine on my headphone stand, when not in use, with a dust cover over them......which can be a huge plastic freezer bag.


----------



## Priidik

silverears said:


> I mentioned that the HD800's characteristics reminds me of the K701.   Look at the these, they are very close.


 
 These sound nothing alike to me though. The HD800 easily sounds closer to HD600 than to anything from AKG i have heard.
 The fr response does tell about how a headphone sounds, but only about 10% ,in my opinion. 
 One look at harmonic distortion components (higher order esp) and CSD-s (or step responses) and the picture
 comes closer what they actually sound like.


----------



## MattTCG

whirlwind said:


> I have not found much in my whole massive library that does not sound awesome, as long as it is a good recording.
> 
> I also love the fact that i can play them pretty loud with absolutely no fatigue at all
> 
> I store mine on my headphone stand, when not in use, with a dust cover over them......which can be a huge plastic freezer bag.


 
  
 Looking for a dust cover actually. Whatcha got?


----------



## Priidik

It looks like Headroom have upgraded the setup around HD800 some year ago as seen from 50Hz SQW data. 
 I wonder if they changed amp or modified the measuring head. The response is close to a good ortho now, from the graph.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Graphs!



http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=3&graphID[]=863&graphID[]=4061&graphID[]=703&graphID[]=3431&scale=30


----------



## Sorrodje

priidik said:


> These sound nothing alike to me though. The HD800 easily sounds closer to HD600 than to anything from AKG i have heard.
> The fr response does tell about how a headphone sounds, but only about 10% ,in my opinion.
> One look at harmonic distortion components (higher order esp) and CSD-s (or step responses) and the picture
> comes closer what they actually sound like.


 
  
 I completely agree with this opinion. There's not much similtarity between K701 and HD800. I had HD580 and HD800 at the same time and the two headphones are closer than the K701. The K550 is definitely closer too.


----------



## whirlwind

matttcg said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > I have not found much in my whole massive library that does not sound awesome, as long as it is a good recording.
> ...


 
 Well, I go old skool Matt.....
  

  
 I get a whole box of dust covers....for just a couple of dollars


----------



## SleepyOne

I just use a large camera blower to dust off now & then.


----------



## MattTCG

whirlwind said:


> Well, I go old skool Matt.....
> 
> 
> 
> I get a whole box of dust covers....for just a couple of dollars


 
 Ha!! I love it. Good thing is, I already own one.


----------



## Canadian411

I love it ! Zip it up.


----------



## whirlwind




----------



## Buddhahacker

matttcg said:


> Ha!! I love it. Good thing is, I already own one.


 
 I usually borrow them from my wife.


----------



## Canadian411

buddhahacker said:


> I usually borrow them from my wife.


 
  lol,. I hope she doesn't mind.


----------



## kkcc

pearljam50000 said:


> What's the best way to store the HD800 and prevent dust?
> 
> EDIT: It's really annoying that sennheiser doesn't include an [COLOR=333333]aluminum case like the T1 case.[/COLOR]​





Just make sure you use them everyday and it won't collect any dust... mine lives on its woo stand and I make sure I use it everyday...


----------



## skeptic

silverears said:


> I'm done here, it's being returned.  I'm not modding or getting a new DAC or Amp.   I wasn't looking for something to mod or look for a DAC or Amp to fix the damn thing.




Probably for the best now that you've stomped the toes of a number of us who were simply trying to lend you a hand. 

Sorry you took my amp comment so personally. I have nothing against AMB's designs. I just thought you might find the output impedance considerations helpful, particularly given that Senn designed it's own hd800 amp with a 40 ohm output. Did you even test out your impedance adapter idea or read purrin's impedance thread (on that other forum) before heading off to sling mud in other threads about those of us who were trying to engage with you here?


----------



## koiloco

skeptic said:


> Probably for the best now that you've stomped the toes of a number of us who were simply trying to lend you a hand.
> 
> Sorry you took my amp comment so personally. I have nothing against AMB's designs. I just thought you might find the output impedance considerations helpful, particularly given that Senn designed it's own hd800 amp with a 40 ohm output. Did you even test out your impedance adapter idea or read purrin's impedance thread (on that other forum) before heading off to sling mud in other threads about those of us who were trying to engage with you here?


 
 +1
  
@SilverEars, Good luck with the return.  On the last note, IMO, there's really nothing wrong with the HD800, assuming your HD800 isn't a defect unit.


----------



## longbowbbs

There goes another ODAC fan.....


----------



## SilverEars

skeptic said:


> Probably for the best now that you've stomped the toes of a number of us who were simply trying to lend you a hand.
> 
> Sorry you took my amp comment so personally. I have nothing against AMB's designs. I just thought you might find the output impedance considerations helpful, particularly given that Senn designed it's own hd800 amp with a 40 ohm output. Did you even test out your impedance adapter idea or read purrin's impedance thread (on that other forum) before heading off to sling mud in other threads about those of us who were trying to engage with you here?


 
 I wanted to try it and see if I like it, and it turned out it wasn't my cup of tea.  I like to tell it like it is.  There are some advices I would take given if it's reasonable, but I really didn't run into it here such as below.  I had to challenge your 40ohm theory since you there wasn't anything reasonable about it.  Possibly the mod, but it's just suggesting it's bright and need fixing. 
  


longbowbbs said:


> There goes another ODAC fan.....


----------



## palmfish

I listen to my HD800 through my Asus Essence One and it really sounds wonderful. I really don't believe there is a music genre that the HD800 doesn't reproduce well. It's a transducer, that's all it is. Garbage in/garbage out.


----------



## icebear

palmfish said:


> I listen to my HD800 through my Asus Essence One and it really sounds wonderful. I really don't believe there is a music genre that the HD800 doesn't reproduce well. It's a transducer, that's all it is. *Garbage in/garbage out.*


 
 Oh well,


----------



## skeptic

silverears said:


> I wanted to try it and see if I like it, and it turned out it wasn't my cup of tea.  I like to tell it like it is.  There are some advices I would take given if it's reasonable, but I really didn't run into it here such as below.  I had to challenge your 40ohm theory since you there wasn't anything reasonable about it.  Possibly the mod, but it's just suggesting it's bright and need fixing.


 
  
 SilverEars - the whole point is that people here were attempting to provide you with helpful suggestions since you were posting in the "appreciation" thread.  None of us took the position that these are perfect headphones.  In fact, the false proposition that they should be "perfect" was your excuse for refusing to even consider the anax mod or other simple gear changes that might (or might not) have allowed you to enjoy the hd800's.  Your comment that you like to "tell it like it is" is an extremely weak (and, in fact, inaccurate) justification for your lack of civility and choice to badmouth several of us in _another_ thread.  
  
 Further, I am unaware of any post in which you substantively "challenged" the proposition that the output impedance of an amp can shape the sound of dynamic headphones.  It is well documented here and elsewhere that higher output impedance amps do change the FR of many transducers.  As you acknowledged a few pages back, unlike orthos, the hd800's have a giant impedance spike on their curve.  Bass does get boosted (at the cost of tightness) by amps with higher output impedance.  An amp with an impedance selector lets you experiment with this very easily.  You can chose to believe the Senn's engineers are totally incompetent or just happened to chose to make a SS circuit with a 40 ohm tap because they are arbitrary and capricious.  Occam's razor suggests otherwise.  The "reasonable" assumption is that Senn concluded an ultra-low Z amp was _not _the ideal match for hd800's and probably hd650's as well.


----------



## pearljam50000

The HD800 is so brutally honest, and that can turn people off, because let's face it, most people like smooth and pleasant sound .
As i said, this headphone is only for the most hardcore audiophiles...


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> The HD800 is so brutally honest, and that can turn people off, because let's face it, most people like smooth and pleasant sound .
> As i said, *this headphone is only for the most hardcore audiophiles...*


 
 TIL I'm an audiophile…and a hardcore one at that


----------



## MattTCG

pearljam50000 said:


> The HD800 is so brutally honest, and that can turn people off, because let's face it, most people like smooth and pleasant sound .
> As i said, this headphone is only for the most hardcore audiophiles...


 
  
 I almost chimed in to say, "that's why you should have the 650 as a complement." But then I thought to myself, "I haven't put on the 650 since I got the 800."


----------



## Amictus

pearljam50000 said:


> The HD800 is so brutally honest, and that can turn people off, because let's face it, most people like smooth and pleasant sound .
> As i said, this headphone is only for the most hardcore audiophiles...


 
 Guilty, as charged, M'Lud! But I still listen to the HD650 and the RS1i a lot, depending on the source...


----------



## MickeyVee

I don't consider myself a audiophile,.. maybe a music and equipment enthusiast.  I find the HD800 silky smooth and when there is fault, it's generally the recording.  Maybe is't just my DAC/AMP combo that works for me.  I would like to get something more forgiving and complementary to the HD800 (LCD-X, HE-400i/560) but for now, I haven't found anything that bests the HD800.  YMMV.
  
 Quote:


pearljam50000 said:


> The HD800 is so brutally honest, and that can turn people off, because let's face it, most people like smooth and pleasant sound .
> As i said, this headphone is only for the most hardcore audiophiles...


----------



## whirlwind

matttcg said:


> pearljam50000 said:
> 
> 
> > The HD800 is so brutally honest, and that can turn people off, because let's face it, most people like smooth and pleasant sound .
> ...


 
  
 Ha ha....this sounds very familiar


----------



## Priidik

> Senn's engineers are totally incompetent or just happened to chose to make a SS circuit with a 40 ohm tap because they are arbitrary and capricious.  Occam's razor suggests otherwise.


 
  
 On a side note; have you listened to HDVA600 or HDVD800? I am very curious to see a comparison with the Mainline for HD800s.


----------



## magiccabbage

matttcg said:


> I almost chimed in to say, "that's why you should have the 650 as a complement." But then I thought to myself, "I haven't put on the 650 since I got the 800."


 
 the very same thing happened to me. Now I don't even put on the T1 and I have a WA2! The T1 will be sold soon to fund other things


----------



## SilverEars

Guys, just a warning, the GS-X MK2 amp has less than 1 ohm output impedance. It's not good for the HD800 according to Skeptic because it's not 40ohm output impedance and not made by Sennheiser.  Stay away(well atleast Skeptic should stay alway because his magic number is 40ohms).


----------



## Priidik

silverears said:


> Guys, just a warning, the GS-X MK2 amp has less than 1 ohm output impedance. It's not good for the HD800 according to Skeptic because it's not 40ohm output impedance and not made by Sennheiser.  Stay away(well atleast Skeptic should stay alway because his magic number is 40ohms).


 
 Many will stay away, probably a lot more will love it, but its because they have actually listened to it. All the awesome measured parameters in the world stuffed under one case wouldn't necessarily make a good sounding unit. 
 Skeptic was trying to suggest you something relatively simple to try out, since the apparent religious grip You seem to have for your dac and amp won't let you try the obvious routes of other dacs and amps. It can be frightening to realize that other gear might be better than that which you own.


----------



## MacedonianHero

silverears said:


> I haven't heard the 3, but I believe Audeze needs a mid bump and it would be perfect.  Now that I have my HD800 on correctlly, I've noticed that the treble is still not to my liking, and just needs to tame the treble around 6-8k area.  It comes out too aggressive for me, that it causes a stressful listening session.  I listen to music to relax.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Would also depend on your setup. The tonality of the treble is quite smooth on the GS-X Mk2 and the bass kicks like a mule.
  
 FTR, most orthos don't have a mid bump; nor do I want any. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  


silverears said:


> Computer > ODAC > 2 Channel Beta 22 > HD800
> 
> I've tried the O2 amp before and it sounded horrendous.


 
 Nevermind...the 2 channel B22 is far from an ideal amp for the HD800. and the ODAC was far from what I'd consider a "proper" DAC for headphones in the High End forum. Great little starter DAC...but it ends there to my ears.


----------



## MattTCG

silverears said:


> Guys, just a warning, the GS-X MK2 amp has less than 1 ohm output impedance. It's not good for the HD800 according to Skeptic because it's not 40ohm output impedance and not made by Sennheiser.  Stay away(well atleast Skeptic should stay alway because his magic number is 40ohms).


 
  
 The GS X is one of the best amps I've heard...ever. Stunning when paired with the hd800. Just one man's opinion.


----------



## MacedonianHero

matttcg said:


> The GS X is one of the best amps I've heard...ever. Stunning when paired with the hd800. Just one man's opinion.


 
 X2
  
 The GS-X Mk2 is the pinnacle of HD800 amps that I've come across (and I've heard them with dozens of really good amps; both SS and tube, high and low output impedance)...any comments without first hand experiences should be taken with plenty of salt.


----------



## SilverEars

macedonianhero said:


> Would also depend on your setup. The tonality of the treble is quite smooth on the GS-X Mk2 and the bass kicks like a mule.
> 
> FTR, most orthos don't have a mid bump; nor do I want any.
> 
> ...


 
 Of course not.  What is a proper DAC to you?  What makes a proper DAC?  And what is the reason for B22 being from from an ideal amp?  I'm just applying Skeptic's logic, nothing more.


----------



## MacedonianHero

silverears said:


> Of course not.  What is a proper DAC to you?


 
 For the HD800s....as good as you can get. They've scaled with every DAC/Amp I've changed. Many of my other headphones would simply sound pretty much the same, but the HD800s would reflect upstream gear better than most. In fact, when I'm reviewing upstream gear, the HD800s are my "go to" headphones for that reason. I've had them for about 4 years now and they have a solid place in my collection. Are they perfect? Nope...there are some things I would like to change about them...but when taken as a whole and compared to the competition, they are spectacular headphones...but they are a challenge that many don't want to pursue. And that's cool too...


----------



## SilverEars

macedonianhero said:


> For the HD800s....as good as you can get. They've scaled with every DAC/Amp I've changed. Many of my other headphones would simply sound pretty much the same, but the HD800s would reflect upstream gear better than most. In fact, when I'm reviewing upstream gear, the HD800s are my "go to" headphones for that reason. I've had them for about 4 years now and they have a solid place in my collection. Are they perfect? Nope...there are some things I would like to change about them...but when taken as a whole and compared to the competition, they are spectacular headphones...but they are a challenge that many don't want to pursue. And that's cool too...


 
 But, you haven't answered my question.  What makes a proper DAC?


----------



## MacedonianHero

silverears said:


> But, you haven't answered my question.  What makes a proper DAC?


 
 Yes I have...it depends what you're looking for...for the HD800s, the ODAC sounds bland, dry, and lacks details and imaging of even the Schiit Bifrost.


----------



## SilverEars

macedonianhero said:


> Yes I have...it depends what you're looking for...for the HD800s, the ODAC sounds bland, dry, and lacks details and imaging of even the Schiit Bifrost.


 
 OK, so my DAC is bland, dry, and lacks details.  Gotcha.  Which DAC is not bland, dry, and lacks details?


----------



## MacedonianHero

silverears said:


> OK, so my DAC is bland, dry, and lacks details.  Gotcha.  Which DAC is not bland, dry, and lacks details?


 
 What's your price range? 
  
 Again, the ODAC is a very fine entry level solution...but the HD800s are not going to sound their best with entry level solutions. In fact, of all headphones I've come across, they're some of the most revealing. Plus your choice of '80s pop (I was a child of the '80s FWIW) isn't recorded well and is overly bright and compressed. That's gonna be huge. No DAC can fix many of those recordings.


----------



## SilverEars

macedonianhero said:


> What's your price range?
> 
> Again, the ODAC is a very fine entry level solution...but the HD800s are not going to sound their best with entry level solutions.


 
 So, is it the pricing? So, I paid too little, so therefore it's entry level solution?  What should i pay for the fine non dry, and detailed solution?


----------



## MacedonianHero

silverears said:


> So, is it the pricing? So, I paid too little, so therefore it's entry level solution?  What should i pay for the fine non dry, and detailed solution?


 
 No, not the pricing...there are great mid-priced DACs that sound fantastic and crappy...same for really pricey. That's where experience comes in. But if you wouldn't spend more than say $500, then why would I suggest a DAC that costs more? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I'm trying here....but seems you've made up your mind.


----------



## pearljam50000

What's the best 500$ DAC, or less, with HD800?


----------



## Canadian411

Best DAC = lampizator big 7.

It beats pretty much every dacs from the review. 

But I don't think I can afford one yet.
Perhaps our friend Al can do some review for us


----------



## Sonido

pearljam50000 said:


> What's the best 500$ DAC, or less, with HD800?


 

 I like my Emotiva DC-1. I tried some expensive DACs at a meet through my own amp and HD800 and library, and nothing immediately jumped out. Of course I only had like 10 minutes with the other DACs and it was meet environment. I'm sure there are subtle difference, but that's mostly what most the differences in gear are at this level.


----------



## Maxvla

FWIW I actually like the ODAC + O2 pair with the HD800, but it does lack somewhat in dynamic contrast. I thought detail and timbres were pretty good. I could certainly listen to it at length.


----------



## longbowbbs

maxvla said:


> FWIW I actually like the ODAC + O2 pair with the HD800, but it does lack somewhat in dynamic contrast. I thought detail and timbres were pretty good. I could certainly listen to it at length.


 
 Chris, have you tried the Geek Out 1000 with the HD800's? Pretty nice for the price and portability.


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> What's the best 500$ DAC, or less, with HD800?


 
  
 I would highly recommend the Emotiva DC-1 (remember it was initially priced at $899 or something like that). I just got it and haven't done full on reviews, but it definitely keeps up with my DM Source as a DAC. In contrast, the DM Source I've now had for a few months and that definitely does keep up with the like of Bryston BDA-2 mk2 (non sampling mode), NAD M51, Arcam D33. I've heard all of these dacs with totl amps, totl transports, power supplies and speakers (KEF ref, PSB, Focals, active monitors - Genelecs, ATC) I'm seriously not even exagerrating how good the Source is as a DAC. The M51 was the most neutral, followed by BDA-2 and then D33 which was laid back.

 So following that logic if the DM Source is on par with those DACs, and the Emo DC-1 is close with DM Source, then DC-1 is roughly equal to those DACs. It indeed does mirror Gary's comments. Again, the DC-1 I've had little time with, but so far it seems excellent value with excellent performance.
  
 Of course, there's always ODAC.


----------



## Zoom25

sonido said:


> I like my Emotiva DC-1. I tried some expensive DACs at a meet through my own amp and HD800 and library, and nothing immediately jumped out. Of course I only had like 10 minutes with the other DACs and it was meet environment. I'm sure there are subtle difference, but that's mostly what most the differences in gear are at this level.


 
 Beat me to it


----------



## koiloco

macedonianhero said:


> X2
> 
> The GS-X Mk2 is the pinnacle of HD800 amps that I've come across (and I've heard them with dozens of really good amps; both SS and tube, high and low output impedance)...any comments without first hand experiences should be taken with plenty of salt.


 
 Great/excellent! Yes but pinnacle could be a little strong... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Have you tried HD800 on Liquid Glass?  If yes, what's your opinion?  I haven't so I am curious.  Thx.


----------



## bearFNF

Well I actually am liking my bifrost uber with the HD800, but I would suggest listening to some gear at a meet or expo to see what you like.


pearljam50000 said:


> What's the best 500$ DAC, or less, with HD800?


----------



## Maxvla

longbowbbs said:


> Chris, have you tried the Geek Out 1000 with the HD800's? Pretty nice for the price and portability.



I haven't tried any of the LH stuff, mostly because I don't like how they are constantly changing their crowd sourcing benefits and such. They keep offering way too many options and redesigning stuff so much I am completely lost as to what they actually make. On another site people actually requested a roadmap for the LH stuff so they could figure out what was what, so I'm not alone.


----------



## longbowbbs

maxvla said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Chris, have you tried the Geek Out 1000 with the HD800's? Pretty nice for the price and portability.
> ...


 
 No argument there....It is like buying an amoeba! I have a fully dressed out Geek Pulse on order, I think.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. However, it has been fun to take the HD800's on the road. The DF could drive the HD650's OK, but it crapped out on the HD800's.


----------



## pearljam50000

I'm considering the Emotiva DC-1 and Teac UD301:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00L9HZ5QW?cache=78ee52bccc4d352643d7811c999d8bc8&pi=SX200_QL40&qid=1404702402&sr=8-2#ref=mp_s_a_1_2


The thing is i can't also afford an amp, so the built in amp must be good enough. 
The Emotiva sounds promising, but lacks DSD, the Teac has DSD.
It's so hard to decide ):


----------



## Sonido

The built-in headphone amp in the DC-1 is quite atrocious to be honest, especially with HD800. It's actaully quite terrible with every headphones I've thrown at it.


----------



## koiloco

pearljam50000 said:


> I'm considering the Emotiva DC-1 and Teac UD301:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00L9HZ5QW?cache=78ee52bccc4d352643d7811c999d8bc8&pi=SX200_QL40&qid=1404702402&sr=8-2#ref=mp_s_a_1_2
> 
> ...


 
 Don't get hung up on DSD... Just my personal experience


----------



## palmfish

koiloco said:


> Don't get hang up on DSD... Just my personal experience




Actually, don't get hung up on format. I have 320 Kbps MP3 rips of red book CD's that sound better than many of my SACD's.


----------



## Zoom25

koiloco said:


> Don't get hung up on DSD... Just my personal experience


 
 +1. There really isn't much out there in the grand scheme of things. If all you listen to is classical, jazz and acoustic, then maybe consider DSD.
  
  Quote:


sonido said:


> The built-in headphone amp in the DC-1 is quite atrocious to be honest, especially with HD800. It's actaully quite terrible with every headphones I've thrown at it.


 
 Yeah so far I tried my D2000 and they seemed punchy on it, but not the best I've heard them.
  


pearljam50000 said:


> I'm considering the Emotiva DC-1 and Teac UD301:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00L9HZ5QW?cache=78ee52bccc4d352643d7811c999d8bc8&pi=SX200_QL40&qid=1404702402&sr=8-2#ref=mp_s_a_1_2
> 
> ...


 
 Call Dangerous Music and ask them if they've got a used Source in stock. I bought my used, like-new DC-1 from Emotiva directly with full warranty for $400 + the usual (shipping/taxes/customs). You might be able to find one for cheaper. It will definitely work well with HD800. I swear I remember having this conversation before. Maxvla also mentioned some Matrix gear. Deja vu


----------



## Fearless1

The best DAC I have owned to date is the Benchmark DAC2, but I keep the Rega around because of the HD800. It is not always about what is better, it is about the synergy with the HD800.
  
   Rega>>>Fosgate Signature>>>HD800 is the best thing I have yet to hear.


----------



## pearljam50000

How does the HD800 compare to 1500$ active nearfield monitors, SQ wise?


----------



## Currawong

pearljam50000 said:


> What's the best 500$ DAC, or less, with HD800?


 
  
 The Centrance M8 was on sale for <$500 a few months ago. I'm pretty pleased with it in balanced mode. I second the other comments on the Geek Out -- I think it is fantastic but share the feelings about their campaigns. 
  


pearljam50000 said:


> How does the HD800 compare to 1500$ active nearfield monitors, SQ wise?


 
  
 I only have the ADAM ARTist 3s here, which are ~$1000 a pair. The HD-800s have more consistent bass performance and go deeper, but much of that is because I need better room conditioning to make monitors work. Maybe a larger pair than the 3s would do better.


----------



## PleasantSounds

pearljam50000 said:


> How does the HD800 compare to 1500$ active nearfield monitors, SQ wise?


 
  
 I have a pair of Yamaha HS8 and in terms of clarity and dynamics my feeling is they are superior to the HD800. They are not bass monsters though. If you have space for that, together with the HS8s sub that would be a killer combo which still fits comfortably within your budget.
  
 Just keep in mind that speaker placement (mine are rear ported) and room treatment could be real issues which you will never have with headphones. In an untreated room 5" monitors may actually perform better.
  
 If you feel inclined to go down this path, I'd recommend having a listening session in one of local stores and going through a few sets within your budget. When I got mine this is exactly what I did and was amazed at how different they all sounded. The HS8 were nowhere near the top of my list, but while listening it became quite clear to me that this is the sound I was after.


----------



## skeptic

silverears said:


> Guys, just a warning, the GS-X MK2 amp has less than 1 ohm output impedance. It's not good for the HD800 according to Skeptic because it's not 40ohm output impedance and not made by Sennheiser.  Stay away(well atleast Skeptic should stay alway because his magic number is 40ohms).




Your reading comprehension really leaves something to be desired...please stop misconstruing and mischaracterizing me as some sort of absolutist. 

I only suggested the anax mod or a higher ohm amp because of your particular comments about treble sensitivity, which many of us have dealt with to greater or lesser degrees. In fact, the same criticisms you have raised are exactly what lead anax, arnaud, purrin etc to work up and create various iterations of the mod that you have refused to consider. For your further reference, in addition to commenting on the impact of amp output impedance, anax and purrin have both stated that they do not care for the gsx mk2 with hd800s, even though it is a very popular pairing among some on HF. (Really wish the mods would relax the rules on linking certain other forums so you could read this all first hand.) 

I haven't had the pleasure of hearing a gsx, but I do have dynahi boards and all of the discontinued transistors sitting on my bench - so maybe one day I will be able to weigh in on this to a greater degree. I have the utmost respect for Dr Gilmore's time tested designs, but my sense is still that dynalo derivatives may not be the ideal hd800 amp for those with high treble sensitivities. (As you may or may not be aware, dynalos were not designed with high impedance phones in mind.) 

On the flip side, 40 ohms isn't some magic number (as far as I know). It is just what Senn chose for its own amp, which a lot of people seem to like on the SS side of the aisle. I have no personal experience with this product either (sorry Priidik!), but it stands to reason that its output impedance is in the range that the manufacturer thought was commendable from the standpoint of electrical damping. 

I run my mainline with the output impedance set to 32 ohms, and on occasion bump it to 64 ohms when I feel like a change and a little more midbass. Bass response with hd800s is noticeably tighter and more linear, and generally preferable to me, at 32 ohms, although I'm sure opinions vary on this point. I can also tell you that I prefer my hotrodded crack (120 ohms) over my true 0 ohm agdr boosted / lme49990 modded o2 (http://www.agdraudio.com/Page2.html), which is the leanest and most treble happy of my amps with hd800s. I love it with my ADs though. 

In any event, hope this clears a few matters up for you in terms of where I've been coming from. If you thought your hd800s sounded full, pleasing and accurate in terms of timbre (and not fatiguing) with a 0 ohm amp, then that would be the amp to stick with. Obviously that isn't the case. Time to man up and address the issues or cut your losses and quit the QQ'ing.


----------



## SilverEars

Actually, wouldn't the added output impedance drop the bass?  If you add significant impedance, there will be a power drop similar to the headphone impedance characteristic where the impedance peaks, where the bass is.  The damping factor has more to do with control of the drivers.


----------



## reddog

pearljam50000 said:


> What's the best 500$ DAC, or less, with HD800?



I feel a good dac for 500 would be schiit auditor's uber bifrost dac, however it's not balanced.


----------



## whirlwind

I am also thinking about a dac for about $500, and I am not at all against buying used.
  
 What would be a good dac for the HD800 that would cost around $800 new....that i might find for alot less used


----------



## jsgraha

Maybe a used one of this?

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/RE52/RE5.2EN.htm


----------



## kkcc

jsgraha said:


> Maybe a used one of this?
> 
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/RE52/RE5.2EN.htm



Yes, audio-gd delivers great value. I have the nfb28 and it works quite well with hd800 and have enough power to drive my he6 also.


----------



## Priidik

silverears said:


> Actually, wouldn't the added output impedance drop the bass?  If you add significant impedance, there will be a power drop similar to the headphone impedance characteristic where the impedance peaks, where the bass is.  The damping factor has more to do with control of the drivers.


 
 I think it this way: the hp-s characteristic impedance curve does not change when voltage source (amp) impedance changes.
 However a close to 0 z amp does not make a voltage divider with the hp-s (all voltage is applied to the hp-s), but something like 100ohm z amp to HD800 will make a noticeable 
 voltage divider, and then the  driver resonance impedance peak at 100Hz will claim more voltage than lower and higher frequencies. I might be wrong though


----------



## PleasantSounds

priidik said:


> I think it this way: the hp-s characteristic impedance curve does not change when voltage source (amp) impedance changes.
> However a close to 0 z amp does not make a voltage divider with the hp-s (all voltage is applied to the hp-s), but something like 100ohm z amp to HD800 will make a noticeable
> voltage divider, and then the  driver resonance impedance peak at 100Hz will claim more voltage than lower and higher frequencies. I might be wrong though


 
  
 I was thinking along the same lines, but in the end it's the amp that creates the voltage and impedance is only a measure of how much current will be drawn. So higher impedance = less power, yet we hear amplified sound in that range...
  
 I think once we understand what is causing this impedance spike it may be easier to figure it out.
 I'm speculating here, but to me seems plausible that the impecance rasises around 100 Hz because in this frequency range the transducer generates the most backcurrent. And what we hear with the higher output impedance amps is the result of this undampened backcurrent getting back into the headphones.


----------



## MickeyVee

For the HD800, I really like the Rega DAC and on a budget, a used PS Audio DLIII fits the bill nicely.  Right now, loving the Naim DAC but even then I find it expensive for wat it is.
  
 Quote:


fearless1 said:


> The best DAC I have owned to date is the Benchmark DAC2, but I keep the Rega around because of the HD800. It is not always about what is better, it is about the synergy with the HD800.
> Rega>>>Fosgate Signature>>>HD800 is the best thing I have yet to hear.


----------



## palmfish

priidik said:


> I think it this way: the hp-s characteristic impedance curve does not change when voltage source (amp) impedance changes.
> However a close to 0 z amp does not make a voltage divider with the hp-s (all voltage is applied to the hp-s), but something like 100ohm z amp to HD800 will make a noticeable
> voltage divider, and then the  driver resonance impedance peak at 100Hz will claim more voltage than lower and higher frequencies. I might be wrong though


 
  
  


pleasantsounds said:


> I was thinking along the same lines, but in the end it's the amp that creates the voltage and impedance is only a measure of how much current will be drawn. So higher impedance = less power, yet we hear amplified sound in that range...
> 
> I think once we understand what is causing this impedance spike it may be easier to figure it out.
> I'm speculating here, but to me seems plausible that the impecance rasises around 100 Hz because in this frequency range the transducer generates the most backcurrent. And what we hear with the higher output impedance amps is the result of this undampened backcurrent getting back into the headphones.


 
   
http://www.transcendentsound.com/Transcendent/Amplifier_Output_Impedance.html


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> How does the HD800 compare to 1500$ active nearfield monitors, SQ wise?


 
 Running HR824 mk1 in a decently treated 8m x 20m room. I've ran other speakers in my room as well that I've heard in properly designed studios. My room is surprisingly dead and took care of reflections and corners.
  
 Back to your question, HD800 wins in terms of deeper extension even though HR824's go quite deep themselves and truly don't need a sub, even for movies. HD800 has better resolve and transients. They'll win SQ wise. If I had both freely available to listen to, I'd hands down pick the monitors each time. I wouldn't touch the HD800s. They're exceptional headphones, but still headphones and thus have their limitations…can't throw that visceral impact and front soundstage. Also, natural crossfeed.


----------



## Zoom25

Someone previously (James-Uk?) was inquiring about the impedance output on the DM Source's headphone output and whether it was high as some studio gear might be. So I contacted them about the impedance output and power output at different settings. Here's the reply:
  


> The output impedance of the headphone amp is less than one ohm. We've not measured power at different impedances because the impedance of the amp is so low. No matter what headphones you plug in, start with the volume control all the way down and turn up slowly...


 
  
 So less than 1 ohm and *DRIVES* Denons to HD800


----------



## Canadian411

zoom25 said:


> Someone previously (James-Uk?) was inquiring about the impedance output on the DM Source's headphone output and whether it was high as some studio gear might be. So I contacted them about the impedance output and power output at different settings. Here's the reply:
> 
> 
> So less than 1 ohm and *DRIVES* Denons to HD800




How is this possible? I am curious.


----------



## skeptic

Priidik and PleasantSounds have a better grasp on the physics than I do, but what they have posted is similar to explanations I've read in the past (eg posts on the same topic by xnor over at hydrogen.) 

The measurements purrin has shared (elsewhere, but pasted in below) of anax modded hd800s at 0 ohms (green), 170 ohms (yellowish green) and 680 ohms (orange) - all running off the same amp but with the addition of series resistors, are what have stood out most distinctly in my mind. As discussed a couple of pages back (and setting aside our points of disagreement), this confirms that silverears was correct in suggesting impedance adapters will get you to the same end point. Still intending to test this out with my o2 as time permits. 






If you want to find the thread from which this was taken (concerning why hd800s sound like "bass monsters" when jacked into certain vintage receivers), you can google: hd800 and Iec 120 ohm standard


----------



## Zoom25

canadian411 said:


> How is this possible? I am curious.


 
 Don't know. I found the DM Source to work well with low impedance, high sensitivity like D2000 and high impedance and high sensitivity HD800. Not the best match for low impedance, low sensitivity planars though. I found speaker amps better for Hifimans. Although I'm really stoked to try the more efficient LCD-X, LCD-XC, HE-560, TH-900 and HE-400i. I'm absolutely certain that the TH-900 will be amazing on the Source.
  
 The bass on the HD800 is superb for some reason (better than BDA-2 > BHA-1 > LCD-3). Not to some much with T1 or one of the AKG's I tried.


----------



## reddog

Is the schiit audio gungnir dac good with the HD800? I know the HD800 is particular about what amp sounds great with it, however I want to know if the HD800 is particular about the type of dac one uses.


----------



## MattTCG

reddog said:


> Is the schiit audio gungnir dac good with the HD800?


 
 Bump for this question...


----------



## Maxvla

Not in my experience. Too aggressive and relentless in its delivery, not very good dynamic contrast.


----------



## kkcc

reddog said:


> Is the schiit audio gungnir dac good with the HD800? I know the HD800 is particular about what amp sounds great with it, however I want to know if the HD800 is particular about the type of dac one uses.




I had only demoed it but I think hd800 with the Gungnir lacks some refinement and can sound unnatural at times. Compared to the amp I actually feel hd800 is more DAC dependent. Whereas say my HE6 is more amp dependent.


----------



## Zoom25

Why not always keep the most neutral DAC and play around with amps + headphone/speaker. DAC rolling sounds like a headache.


----------



## PleasantSounds

zoom25 said:


> Why not always keep the most neutral DAC and play around with amps + headphone/speaker. DAC rolling sounds like a headache.


 
  
 Picking a neutral DAC is a bit more complex than just examining the frequency response chart. Most DACs these days have very flat FR, yet they sound different. Other parameters that impact the sound quality are either difficult to measure or just not provided, i.e. dynamics, resolution, detail level, phase response across the frequency range, jitter, etc. Price is not necessarily a good indicator of how well these parameters have been managed.
  
 The downstream gear (pre-amps, equalizers, amps, headphones, speakers) has its own characteristics that either play well with these factors (usually by masking the flaws) or expose mercilessly all the shortcomings. In other words all the components of the signal chain must work together like an orchestra.
  
 It's your choice whether you decide to build your system around your DAC, your amp or your headphone. To me the most critical component is the headphone, as it has some additional characteristics which do not impact the rest of the chain yet are critical to me i.e. wearing comfort.


----------



## kkcc

pleasantsounds said:


> Picking a neutral DAC is a bit more complex than just examining the frequency response chart. Most DACs these days have very flat FR, yet they sound different. Other parameters that impact the sound quality are either difficult to measure or just not provided, i.e. dynamics, resolution, detail level, phase response across the frequency range, jitter, etc. Price is not necessarily a good indicator of how well these parameters have been managed.
> 
> The downstream gear (pre-amps, equalizers, amps, headphones, speakers) has its own characteristics that either play well with these factors (usually by masking the flaws) or expose mercilessly all the shortcomings. In other words all the components of the signal chain must work together like an orchestra.
> 
> It's your choice whether you decide to build your system around your DAC, your amp or your headphone. To me the most critical component is the headphone, as it has some additional characteristics which do not impact the rest of the chain yet are critical to me i.e. wearing comfort.




Extremely well said!! From a dollar:impact ratio perspective, exclude the music itself, I agreed the headphone is the most critical component, followed by DAC, then AMP, then lastly the power, cable, interconnects and whatnot. 



zoom25 said:


> Why not always keep the most neutral DAC and play around with amps + headphone/speaker. DAC rolling sounds like a headache.




yup, besides what PleasantSounds said, DAC rolling is expensive - you almost never know how it perform compared to others unless you actually buy them. Maybe a lucky few can find loaners to demo at home but there isn't really much "specs" or "measurement" that tell you much besides they aren't flat out garbage. To make thing worse DAC are advancing much faster than amp technologies and any investment you make today could be worth very little next year.


----------



## pearljam50000

How does burn in effect HD800?


----------



## PleasantSounds

> [..]





> To make thing worse DAC are advancing much faster than amp technologies and any investment you make today could be worth very little next year.


 
  
 The path I have taken to become somewhat immune to DAC upgraditis was to put my bets on professional gear. Compared to your typical audiophile DAC this has the following benefits:
 - longer lifecycle, better support
 - usually much better reliability
 - this stuff is used in the music production cycle, so getting anything "better" hardly makes sense
 - no BS impacting the price
 - balanced I/O is a given, not something you pay double for
  
 A couple of examples that belong in this category and are mentioned here occasionally are Dangerous Music Source and Lynx Hilo.


----------



## MacedonianHero

koiloco said:


> Great/excellent! Yes but pinnacle could be a little strong...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have not heard the LG. But I did used to own both the LF and LL and let's say, I had less than great results with them.


----------



## Zoom25

pleasantsounds said:


> The path I have taken to become somewhat immune to DAC upgraditis was to put my bets on professional gear. Compared to your typical audiophile DAC this has the following benefits:
> - longer lifecycle, better support
> - usually much better reliability
> - this stuff is used in the music production cycle, so getting anything "better" hardly makes sense
> ...


 
 +100 on everything.


pleasantsounds said:


> Picking a neutral DAC is a bit more complex than just examining the frequency response chart. Most DACs these days have very flat FR, yet they sound different. Other parameters that impact the sound quality are either difficult to measure or just not provided, i.e. dynamics, resolution, detail level, phase response across the frequency range, jitter, etc. Price is not necessarily a good indicator of how well these parameters have been managed.
> 
> The downstream gear (pre-amps, equalizers, amps, headphones, speakers) has its own characteristics that either play well with these factors (usually by masking the flaws) or expose mercilessly all the shortcomings. In other words all the components of the signal chain must work together like an orchestra.
> 
> It's your choice whether you decide to build your system around your DAC, your amp or your headphone. To me the most critical component is the headphone, as it has some additional characteristics which do not impact the rest of the chain yet are critical to me i.e. wearing comfort.


 
  
 Oh yeah I know exactly what you mean. I got lucky with the Source as it's neutral in it's FR, but more importantly neutral in it's presentation (soundstage, vocals, attack, decay, bass control) - something I wasn't expecting at this price.
  
 What I meant to say was to find a DAC that is balanced in both FR and presentation and then mess around with amps or headphones/speakers.


----------



## pearljam50000

pleasantsounds said:


> The path I have taken to become somewhat immune to DAC upgraditis was to put my bets on professional gear. Compared to your typical audiophile DAC this has the following benefits:
> - longer lifecycle, better support
> - usually much better reliability
> - this stuff is used in the music production cycle, so getting anything "better" hardly makes sense
> ...




Is the Benchmark DAC1 still a good DAC even though it's old?


----------



## koiloco

macedonianhero said:


> I have not heard the LG. But I did used to own both the LF and LL and let's say, I had less than great results with them.


 
 Thx for honest answer.  It will help me narrow down my choices when the time comes.


----------



## 62ohm

After several auditions and asking around, I finally made up my mind for my new amp and the Sennheiser HDVA600 triumphs from my three candidates (HDVA600, BHA-1, V200).
  

  
 Now, time to upgrade my dac I guess


----------



## koiloco

62ohm said:


> After several auditions and asking around, I finally made up my mind for my new amp and the Sennheiser HDVA600 triumphs from my three candidates (HDVA600, BHA-1, V200).
> 
> 
> 
> Now, time to upgrade my dac I guess


 
  
 Oh my my!  That looks sharppppp.   Gratz...
 New DAC by next week, right?


----------



## 62ohm

koiloco said:


> Oh my my!  That looks sharppppp.   Gratz...
> New DAC by next week, right?


 
  
 Thanks mate! Though I suspect I would go through the same process with DACs as I did with this amp, taking a very long time auditioning and asking around before jumping into a decision


----------



## PleasantSounds

zoom25 said:


> +100 on everything.
> 
> Oh yeah I know exactly what you mean. I got lucky with the Source as it's neutral in it's FR, but more importantly neutral in it's presentation (soundstage, vocals, attack, decay, bass control) - something I wasn't expecting at this price.
> 
> What I meant to say was to find a DAC that is balanced in both FR and presentation and then mess around with amps or headphones/speakers.


 
  
 I was seriously considering the Source, but at the time there was very little info available regarding how it plays with other gear. When I went to audition it, my supplier was out of stock. In the end I went with the Hilo and am very pleased with its performance.


----------



## koiloco

HD Dune album by Ottmar Liebert & Luna Negra sounds particularly wonderful tonite on HD800.


----------



## palmfish

pearljam50000 said:


> Is the Benchmark DAC1 still a good DAC even though it's old?




Is it older than 5 years? DAC's go bad in 5 years.


----------



## nephilim32

62ohm said:


> After several auditions and asking around, I finally made up my mind for my new amp and the Sennheiser HDVA600 triumphs from my three candidates (HDVA600, BHA-1, V200).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My god. How beautiful is that amp!?
Question. Doesn't the HDVA600 already have a DAC built in it? If you got another DAC you would be over sampling the analog signal unless there is a way to bypass the DAC in the HDVA and use it as a dedicated SS amp? I'm not sure, but that 600's DAC I would imagine to be very good. 
It's not 2000$ for nothing.


----------



## 62ohm

nephilim32 said:


> My god. How beautiful is that amp!?
> Question. Doesn't the HDVA600 already have a DAC built in it? If you got another DAC you would be over sampling the analog signal unless there is a way to bypass the DAC in the HDVA and use it as a dedicated SS amp? I'm not sure, but that 600's DAC I would imagine to be very good.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The one that comes with a dac is the HDVD800, the one I'm getting is the HDVA600 which comes with no dac.


----------



## nephilim32

Agh 





62ohm said:


> The one that comes with a dac is the HDVD800, the one I'm getting is the HDVA600 which comes with no dac.




Agh of course! Forgot they made one without the DAC. Hey. Better move getting the 600 then cause now you can have fun searching for a wonderful DAC. I bet that amp will be every bit as good as possible. A sure thing really. Really excited to hear what you'll have to say about it. Oh one more question, is the 600 amp 2 or 4 watts per channel? Not that it really matters. 
As for DACS. What do you have your eye on? 
May I suggest ARCAM irDAC. It's amazing for the money and completely high end. 2013 Whathifi.com's DAC of the year! 
It's under 750$. A steal!!


----------



## 62ohm

nephilim32 said:


> Agh
> Agh of course! Forgot they made one without the DAC. Hey. Better move getting the 600 then cause now you can have fun searching for a wonderful DAC. I bet that amp will be every bit as good as possible. A sure thing really. Really excited to hear what you'll have to say about it. Oh one more question, is the 600 amp 2 or 4 watts per channel? Not that it really matters.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not sure about the power output. As for DACs, currently I'm having a good time with the pairing with Cambridge DM100, so I'm thinking of just upgrading it to the Cambridge DacMagic Plus. Another candidate I have in mind is to get an Astell&Kern AK100 Gen.2 and use it as my DAC, which will be handy since essentially I'm getting 1 item for 2 purposes


----------



## SilverEars

I'm am looking to verify what's been posted here.  HDVD 800, the best choice here?  I will try it for the sake of finding out.


----------



## Zoom25

pleasantsounds said:


> I was seriously considering the Source, but at the time there was very little info available regarding how it plays with other gear. When I went to audition it, my supplier was out of stock. In the end I went with the Hilo and am very pleased with its performance.


 
 I know what you mean. The Source isn't popular with the headphone crowd or commercial home use folks. I got it for monitors primarily and to use it occasionally with easy to drive Denons and such. The HD800 weren't even in consideration at that time, much less being able to drive them off the Source. I just got lucky at a meet where I tried like 30+ headphones with it. Kept coming back to the HD800s.
  
 The Lynx Hilo is an amazing piece. I was looking at that along with some Antelope Zodiac pieces. Studio gear always gives a sense of convenience to me both in it's performance and use.


----------



## Zoom25

silverears said:


> I'm am looking to verify what's been posted here.  HDVD 800, the best choice here?  I will try it for the sake of finding out.


 
 WE DID IT GUYS!


----------



## koiloco

silverears said:


> I'm am looking to verify what's been posted here.  HDVD 800, the best choice here?  I will try it for the sake of finding out.


 
 That's the spirit... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 Just to share with you my personal experience, I didn't like HD800 much at the meets to which I've been.  There were high end amps driving this HP at these meets.
 Lucky for me, my friend let me borrow his for almost 3 weeks... The rest is pretty much history.


----------



## Fearless1

pearljam50000 said:


> Is the Benchmark DAC1 still a good DAC even though it's old?


 

 Yes.


----------



## SilverEars

koiloco said:


> That's the spirit...


 
 If it doesn't change my mind about it's characteristics, hold on to your butts!


----------



## koiloco

silverears said:


> If it doesn't change my mind about it's characteristics, hold on to your butts!


 
 I will put on adult diaper.


----------



## Maxvla

silverears said:


> I'm am looking to verify what's been posted here.  HDVD 800, the best choice here?  I will try it for the sake of finding out.



No. Far from it.


----------



## SilverEars

maxvla said:


> No. Far from it.


 





  So, what is a good setup then?  This setup isn't able tell me about the characteristics of the HD800?  What is meant by far from it?


----------



## SilverEars

maxvla said:


> No. Far from it.


 
 I guess the 800 isn't for me.


----------



## 62ohm

There are a lot of better amps for the HD800, I'm sure the HDVA600 is not the best. Even the BHA-1 is better than the HDVA600 in some ways, and worse in some other IMO. 
  
 PS: I think this is the 6th time you state that the HD800 isn't for you, move on mate..


----------



## LugBug1

nephilim32 said:


> May I suggest ARCAM irDAC. It's amazing for the money and completely high end. 2013 Whathifi.com's DAC of the year!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This is next on my list 
  
 I've been happy with the rDAC for years so even a slight improvement I'll be even happier. The rDAC is very natural 'analogue' sounding with great timing and I've found it to be a good match with HD800.


----------



## kkcc

For me the HD800 is more DAC dependent than amp. The various (non totl) SS amps I had or tried from violectric, audio-gd, burson, bryston, and spl all do a good job amping the hd800 for me without much or any distortion and feels transparent to the sound I get from the source lineout. But the sources I tried v800, nfb28, hm901, dx50/90, various AKs, Hugo, ODAC, and Bellina all sounded more different on the same amp (mainly via nfb28 analog input) then AMP rolling (mainly with hm901 lineout as source).


----------



## LugBug1

silverears said:


> So, what is a good setup then?  This setup isn't able tell me about the characteristics of the HD800?  What is meant by far from it?


 
 I've had my HD800 for a year and a quarter now. Tried about 15 amps (mostly vintage as I collect these but also some decent hp amps from Schiit, Matrix and Audio gd) 5 dacs (including Arcam, Cambridge audio, Beresford) and I can tell you FROM EXPERIENCE (yes I did shout that bit! ) that the Senn's main characteristic is transparency.
This is once you learn their basic power requirements. And this is as simple as this (there will always be exceptions as nothing is absolute)
More power = more bass. High current/ low impedance amps will give them razor sharp speed and dymanics up top but they can sound lacking below. High impedance amps will feed them more voltage and give them more bottom end and fullness into the mids, but sometimes at the expense of sub level tightness. 
  
 Now this is where the experience part comes in. Until you have tried many amps or many dacs, you really won't know that the HD800 are extremely transparent. This is because they sound like whatever they are plugged into.
  
 So, when experienced members give you recommendations, or are trying to persuade you to try other equipment, it is not because they are trying to persuade you - _that you are wrong about this headphone_. It is because they have learned themselves what is good or bad and are trying to help you.  
  
 Now if it comes down to a mistrust of others subjective liking, then you really shouldn't be on a forum that gives out headphone advice and therefore just trust your own ears and go it alone.   
  
 But I would seriously stop asking all the technical questions and listen to the experienced members advice on system matching, because knowing _why_ an impedance curve affects this and that will not - I repeat NOT help you enjoy your 80's pop music. 
 There are far too many variables in any hifi component to say what will happen if you change a resistor and what change that will be or how it will affect the sound- and there can be no 'general' answer to this.


----------



## nephilim32

62ohm said:


> There are a lot of better amps for the HD800, I'm sure the HDVA600 is not the best. Even the BHA-1 is better than the HDVA600 in some ways, and worse in some other IMO.
> 
> PS: I think this is the 6th time you state that the HD800 isn't for you, move on mate..




Ummm cool. So how extensively did you test the Hdv600 compared to the BHA-1?? Love to hear your findings in a bit more detail. Also, have you by chance tried the Burson soloist with the 800's? I think that Burson amp is the bees knees right now for me.


----------



## nephilim32

What 





lugbug1 said:


> I've had my HD800 for a year and a quarter now. Tried about 15 amps (mostly vintage as I collect these but also some decent hp amps from Schiit, Matrix and Audio gd) 5 dacs (including Arcam, Cambridge audio, Beresford) and I can tell you FROM EXPERIENCE (yes I did shout that bit! ) that the Senn's main characteristic is transparency.
> This is once you learn their basic power requirements. And this is as simple as this (there will always be exceptions as nothing is absolute)
> More power = more bass. High current/ low impedance amps will give them razor sharp speed and dymanics up top but they can sound lacking below. High impedance amps will feed them more voltage and give them more bottom end and fullness into the mids, but sometimes at the expense of sub level tightness.
> 
> ...




What a wonderful post. I sure wish I could try 15 amps with the HD 800's.  anyway great research and findings. Thank you. 
Also. How does that ARCAM DAC measure up for you? I just love it.


----------



## nephilim32

lugbug1 said:


> This is next on my list
> 
> I've been happy with the rDAC for years so even a slight improvement I'll be even happier. The rDAC is very natural 'analogue' sounding with great timing and I've found it to be a good match with HD800.




Ahh here we are. ARCAM sits well with you. 
Hey. Your gonna be very happy. I am utterly in love with it and really complements the 800's shining dynamics while smoothing out the treble a bit (warmer sounding) without colouring any of the dynamics like some warm tube amps do. My current set up is with the Burson and the ARCAM with the 800's and I am really wondering how on earth can my music sound better sonically?? I guess I'm very content. 
The only thing is maybe replacing the Sens stock 8 stage OFC cable and upgrading that, but I am a bit weary about doing that cause I think the improvements or differences added will be externally minimal. 
Your opinion in this matter is welcome.


----------



## LugBug1

nephilim32 said:


> Ahh here we are. ARCAM sits well with you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yup a few dac's have come and gone while I've kept the Arcam. Great little DAC for the money. 
  
 There are so many conflicting opinions on replacing the cable. But the only reason I would do it would be for ergonomics or a shorter length. Now I'm not saying there won't be a subtle change in sound with an upgrade, but ime (with other headphones and replacements) the changes are too small for me to consider this as any priority for now.


----------



## Sorrodje

Maybe we should stop trying to convince Silverears to understand something he does not want to hear?
  
  
 The simple thing is that the HD800 can be EQ'd, modded, associated to well known compatible (choose your poison) gear in order to sound better to our ears. The fact is the HD800 is very sensitive to EQ and upstream gear change and that's easy to have very good or very bad results. But all fixes we can try definitely can't change the inherent nature of the HD800. If someone dislikes it , the best way to fix that is to return the HD800 and choose another headphone. No one in this thread would be offensed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## 62ohm

nephilim32 said:


> Ummm cool. So how extensively did you test the Hdv600 compared to the BHA-1?? Love to hear your findings in a bit more detail. Also, have you by chance tried the Burson soloist with the 800's? I think that Burson amp is the bees knees right now for me.


 
  
 I compared both through two session of auditioning (SE output and input). On the first audition, I didn't bring my own dac so I used what's available at the store (Auralic Vega & Schiit Bifrost) and with those dacs, I like the BHA-1 better by quite a wide margin. On the second audition, I brought my own dac (a Cambridge DacMagic 100), and I liked the HDVA600 better, though not by far.
  
 I'm sure these amps would compare quite differently if I auditioned them with balanced output, but to get the chance to audition them in person is something I can be grateful of 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I thought about getting the BHA-1 and save up some more to get the X-Sabre, but because I really like the way the HDVA600 sounds when driving the HD800 and fed by my DM100, I couldn't resist. The BHA-1 is bright, sure, but the treble is unbelievably smooth IMO. The bass punches unbelievably hard, but I find the HDVA600 to have more bass presence. I'm not sure which one to point as having more bass control, but if I have to pick I'd say the BHA-1 has the tighter bass. The HDVA600's bass sounds a bit like my WA3 OTL tube amp bass IMO.
  
 Regarding the mids, I find the HDVA600 to have more mids presence. The BHA-1's mids sounds a bit spitty IMO, which may be caused by my dac since when I tested it with the Auralic Vega this problem does not exist. The HDVA600 is the more neutral amp to me, while the BHA-1 leans more towards the bright side. As mentioned before, even though the BHA-1 is a bright amp, I find its treble to be unbelievably smooth. Though a bit of warning, the BHA-1 is a ruthlessly revealing and unforgiving amp, whereas the HDVA600 is more forgiving.
  
 Now, onto soundstage. The BHA-1 has one massive soundstage and headroom, yes, but the HDVA600 beats it in this regard IMO. The HDVA600 expand the soundstage of the HD800 to a degree I did not think was possible. Then there's the imaging....ahh its imaging. Listening to Eagles - Hotel California from the album Hell Freezes Over became one truly ethereal experience.
  
  
  
 I tried the Burson Soloist SL before with an HD800, but I didn't quite like it. I can't recall why, as it has been a long time, but I remember preferring the WA7 to it.
 I've just ordered a Norne Audio Skoll balanced cable for my HD800, which should arrive by next week. I'll post some update here (if I find any) afterward. As always, this is all just one person's opinion and your mileage may vary.


----------



## whirlwind

I am currently searching for a nice dac....one that is transparent to pair with my HD800.....would like to stay in the $800 or less category....I am willing to buy 2nd hand.
  
 Is it worth it to go for balanced .....I have never had a balanced set-up......just throwing it out there......


----------



## Priidik

62ohm said:


> I compared both through two session of auditioning (SE output and input).


 
 You should try balanced I/O with the Senn amp. Its a different beast all together bal, at least to my ears. I don't know if the bal makes a big difference with BHA-1?
 I think with its SE the Senn amp isn't worth the money, not even close, but i think via balanced it is.


----------



## 62ohm

priidik said:


> You should try balanced I/O with the Senn amp. Its a different beast all together bal, at least to my ears. I don't know if the bal makes a big difference with BHA-1?
> I think with its SE the Senn amp isn't worth the money, not even close, but i think via balanced it is.


 
  
 Yeah that's what many have said as well, which is why I ordered a balanced cable right after I got home after the purchase. But what about the balanced input, would it make for a significant difference as well?


----------



## reddog

reddog said:


> Is the schiit audio gungnir dac good with the HD800? I know the HD800 is particular about what amp sounds great with it, however I want to know if the HD800 is particular about the type of dac one uses.




Sorry all, after searching the thread about the gungnir dac, I feel my question was a bit redundant, but t thanks for the feedback. I feel I should save my money and see if the yggdrasil dac would be good for the HD800. Hope you all have a great day
Andrew/ Reddog.


----------



## Priidik

62ohm said:


> But what about the balanced input, would it make for a significant difference as well?


 
 Regretfully i didn't try rca-s, maybe someone who has can tell. I haven't found any information about the amps operation logic, maybe someone knows
 how the se signal gets split for push-pull operation inside?


----------



## Maxx134

nephilim32 said:


> ..
> May I suggest ARCAM irDAC. It's amazing for the money and completely high end. 2013 Whathifi.com's DAC of the year!
> It's under 750$. A steal!!



This ^-^
I used this with my Hd800 and a woo wa7 and it was a great setup.


lugbug1 said:


> This is next on my list
> I've been happy with the rDAC for years so even a slight improvement I'll be even happier. The rDAC is very natural 'analogue' sounding with great timing and I've found it to be a good match with HD800.



The IrDAC dwarfs the older rdac



nephilim32 said:


> ..
> Also. How does that ARCAM DAC measure up for you? I just love it.




IMHO the IrDAC has a great 
refined, smooth, clean and detailed sound.
 There is no dac I am aware of in it's price range that can touch it.
You have to go at least $1k & up.
I had to get the equivalent of a X-Sabre to surpass it.
Too bad it doesn't do DSD files,
But not much easily available on that format yet anyway. 

But as good as the IrDAC is, 
I don't feel it is in top-tier, "end game" category. 
Although it does approach it and for the price it is just a superior dac to much anything else.


----------



## nephilim32

maxx134 said:


> This ^-^
> I used this with my Hd800 and a woo wa7 and it was a great setup.
> The IrDAC dwarfs the older rdac
> IMHO the IrDAC has a great
> ...




That's an ultra warm set up you would have there, especially with the WA 7. That's recreating an ultra high quality 120 gram pressing for sure. 
As for the the irDAC. I find it incredibly difficult to imagine anything better than what the unit is capable of. I know it uses the 1796 PCM chip, and the SABRE chip I think is the top dog on the market right now. I wonder what the irDAC would sound like with a SABRE chip installed in it instead? Would it be that much warmer or smoother sounding than it already is? I am not sure. Anyway MAXX, love to hear some of your impressions of other DACS that you feel surpass the ARCAM's performance. 
All in all. That is a great set up you have. I opted for the Burson soloist instead of a warm tube amp. I didn't want to risk coloring the HD 800's dynamics for trading in for a warmer sound.


----------



## nephilim32

62ohm said:


> I compared both through two session of auditioning (SE output and input). On the first audition, I didn't bring my own dac so I used what's available at the store (Auralic Vega & Schiit Bifrost) and with those dacs, I like the BHA-1 better by quite a wide margin. On the second audition, I brought my own dac (a Cambridge DacMagic 100), and I liked the HDVA600 better, though not by far.
> 
> I'm sure these amps would compare quite differently if I auditioned them with balanced output, but to get the chance to audition them in person is something I can be grateful of
> 
> ...




Thank you so much for this intelligent, lucid response to your findings. 
It sounds like the HDV600, the way you've described it, would be catered or geared towards my sound tastes. I'm a mid range guy and like an extremely wide sound stage with a very balanced bass, which is actually why I really love the soloist with the 800's. Too bad the soloist isn't your cup of tea, but I can totally understand why it's not everyone's cup of tea. 
Anyway, let me know how that Norne XLR cable works out. Sheesh. You'll have enough gain to sink a ship!!


----------



## nephilim32

lugbug1 said:


> Yup a few dac's have come and gone while I've kept the Arcam. Great little DAC for the money.
> 
> There are so many conflicting opinions on replacing the cable. But the only reason I would do it would be for ergonomics or a shorter length. Now I'm not saying there won't be a subtle change in sound with an upgrade, but ime (with other headphones and replacements) the changes are too small for me to consider this as any priority for now.





lugbug1 said:


> Yup a few dac's have come and gone while I've kept the Arcam. Great little DAC for the money.
> 
> There are so many conflicting opinions on replacing the cable. But the only reason I would do it would be for ergonomics or a shorter length. Now I'm not saying there won't be a subtle change in sound with an upgrade, but ime (with other headphones and replacements) the changes are too small for me to consider this as any priority for now.




This is exactly how I feel about the whole cable upgrade game. I have to do more research on it, but I have been hearing some outrageous testimonies for Frank Donghi's TOXIC CABLES company. There is even an extremely large 'appreciation thread' dedicated to the praise and worship these cables can upgrade or give a difference to the HD 800's stock cable. I hear the OCC COPPER VENOM can smooth out the 800's bright treble and sibilance. The SILVER POISON can widen the HD 800's soundstage because a silver plated copper cable enhances the signal transmission...so they say! I am not a believer just yet cause the science behind it doesn't quite convince me yet. Anyhow. I'm with you on this. 
Listen I will tell you something. I bought a Pangea SE 9 AC power cord upgrade that is 12 AWG and has litz copper and personal silicone conductors to replace the stock AC cable on my Burson Soloist and I hear absolutely no difference at all, so the 'cable' game has left me a bit sour thus far. That Pangea cable cost me 150$ and the only thing I can say is that it is cool to look while hooked up to my amp. It's a fat beast! That's it, sadly.


----------



## skeptic

I've been very tempted by the irdac due to my substantial enjoyment of my arcam cdp (really dvd player but only used for audio playback) over the years.  The company clearly knows how to build a good sounding source and has been doing so for a very long time.
  
 The issue holding me back (and making me question the value proposition) is the lack of a linear regulated PSU (which my 10 year old CDP certainly has....)  While other current dac makers are focusing on highly regulated psu's, embedded battery supplies etc. as a key means of limiting jitter - I just don't get why arcam left it out of the irdac and bundled in a wallwart.  (The same criticisms have been directed towards ifi for it's "ifi usb" which has been shown to output a _much _cleaner signal if you hook up a 5v regulated supply).  Arcam could have bumped the price by $100 and included something like a sigma 11 or wire psu board and amveco transformer.  Instead, people are going out and spending several hundred dollars on outboard psu's - which seriously takes away from the street cred of the product imo.  I've still almost pulled the trigger myself on a half dozen occasions but am now planning to wait out the admittedly much more expensive bottlehead fpga dac.


----------



## icebear

nephilim32 said:


> ... is 12 AWG and has litz copper and  *personal silicone conductors* to replace the stock AC cable ...


 
  That might be a first , I guess it provides a lubed sound


----------



## pinoyfever

Has anyone tried the HD800 with a DHC Complement2 Cable?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Yes.  I run mine with a custom Compliment2.  It has the same wire as the C2 but they have metal/kevlar shielding (the stuff used their on Spore cables).


----------



## SilverEars

lugbug1 said:


> I've had my HD800 for a year and a quarter now. Tried about 15 amps (mostly vintage as I collect these but also some decent hp amps from Schiit, Matrix and Audio gd) 5 dacs (including Arcam, Cambridge audio, Beresford) and I can tell you FROM EXPERIENCE (yes I did shout that bit! ) that the Senn's main characteristic is transparency.
> This is once you learn their basic power requirements. And this is as simple as this (there will always be exceptions as nothing is absolute)
> More power = more bass. High current/ low impedance amps will give them razor sharp speed and dymanics up top but they can sound lacking below. High impedance amps will feed them more voltage and give them more bottom end and fullness into the mids, but sometimes at the expense of sub level tightness.
> 
> ...


 
 Hey Lug, I don't doubt you have experience.  The more gear you go through the more experience you have going through the gear. And I'm sure you've run into ones that you like and those that weren't please to your ears.  In the end, this is hobby, and for some search is the part of the fun.  Finding the right synergy as we all call it here is what we are all after so that we can get the best out of the phones.  I don't doubt you have gone thought lots of gear, and found the best that is pleasing to your ear. What is best to your ears it the best to your ears.  Transparency is on the top of the list for alot of us here, and we find it in different ways, whether it be the 800, or the right amp with it, or another setups.  Anyway, thanks for your posts, and those others that tried to help through my short journey. 
  
 Enjoy your 800s guys.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm really not looking to invest a whole lot to perfect the sound, so I will just stop like others recommended.


----------



## pinoyfever

bigfatpaulie said:


> Yes.  I run mine with a custom Compliment2.  It has the same wire as the C2 but they have metal/kevlar shielding (the stuff used their on Spore cables).


 
 Impressions compared to the stock cable?


----------



## icebear

Just finished listening to the first sampler and started the second one.
 For anyone interested in what -in my personal book- is one of the best recording quality out there check Fidelio Records :
 http://www.fideliomusique.com/fidelio-samplers.html
  




  
 Transparency to the real instrument is what gets transported in these recordings.
 And if anything sounds harsh or agressive, then open the window and throw your DAC out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

pinoyfever said:


> Impressions compared to the stock cable?


 
  
 Honestly, it's hard to compare.  The reason I say that is because my DHC is a balanced cable and the stock was single ended so it is not exactly an apples to apples comparison.  Having said that, switching to the new cable (and going balanced) did improve the sound.  What I noticed primarily was an increase in clarity and separation; but again, I don't know how much of that was from the interface change vs the cable.
  
 You hear a lot of people talking about going to copper tames the highs of the HD800's, I personally did not experience that: that transition happened when I changed amps regardless of the cable or interface.  What I can tell you is that it is an extremely well made cable that looks great.  It is quite a bit stiffer and heavier than the stock cable is does get in the way.  Ergonomically it is inferior to the stock cable and the lead time is long.  
  
 It sounds like I am bashing the cable, but I'm not.  These are just things I didn't know about it before I bought it and found.  I feel that for the quality and build of the cable it is well priced.  It looks great, feels great, and definitely ups the 'pride of ownership".  
  
 I have personally never experienced radical changes to sonic performance with any interconnect; mostly just slight refinements on the existing sound YMMV.  I guess what I am saying is that if you have a system that you already love and want just a little more transparency and effortless out of it, a quality cable like the Comp2 is a great way to squeeze out that next 0.5%.
  
 I hope this helps.  Cables can be a tough thing...  Heck, people are still arguing if they even make an audible difference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 -Paul


----------



## lin0003

I just got an Audiolab M-DAC to replace my DacMagic Plus and I am shocked at how good it is after just a few songs. The bass seems fuller despite it being an ES9018 DAC and it is so much cleaner and more detailed. Has anyone compared the M-DAC to other DACs?


----------



## Maxvla

Compared it to the Gungnir and while it was close, I liked the Gungnir better. These days I don't prefer the Gungnir/HD800 pairing, so I would have to reassess.


----------



## lin0003

maxvla said:


> Compared it to the Gungnir and while it was close, I liked the Gungnir better. These days I don't prefer the Gungnir/HD800 pairing, so I would have to reassess.


 
 Thanks, any reason why you thought the Gungnir was better at the time?


----------



## Maxvla

lin0003 said:


> Thanks, any reason why you thought the Gungnir was better at the time?



http://www.head-fi.org/t/625191/dallas-tx-deux-for-2012-a-not-quite-as-mini-meet-sunday-october-14th/150#post_8784168


----------



## 62ohm

What about the Musical Fidelity M1 DAC? Is it any good with the HD800? I'm particularly curious about how it compares against the Cambridge DacMagic Plus.


----------



## Mortalcoil

reddog said:


> Sorry all, after searching the thread about the gungnir dac, I feel my question was a bit redundant, but t thanks for the feedback. I feel I should save my money and see if the yggdrasil dac would be good for the HD800. Hope you all have a great day
> Andrew/ Reddog.


 

  Looks as if the Yggdrasil has the potential to be an awesome DAC, especially considering its R-2R implementation. 
  
 Just tread lightly on the Yggdrasil thread ....lol, some very strong feelings about this upcoming flagship.


----------



## Sorrodje

62ohm said:


> What about the Musical Fidelity M1 DAC? Is it any good with the HD800? I'm particularly curious about how it compares against the Cambridge DacMagic Plus.


 
  
 Never tried myself but a friend of mine had it and disliked it with the HD800. Another friend had this dac with an LCD2/Mjolnir combo and didn't like it either.  I really trust my two friends opinion so I stayed far away from this dac despite the fact I could purchase it at a very low price. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Besides Expensive R2R dacs ( MSB , Totaldac and Metrum Hex) , NOSminidac still sell the 1000€ Metrum Octave mkII ... http://www.nosminidac.nl/Octave_English.html ... definitely a good choice for the HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## Maxx134

nephilim32 said:


> ...
> love to hear some of your impressions of other DACS that you feel surpass the ARCAM's performance. wink.gif



I have stopped the equipment climbing with the oppo HA-1 which is a dac/amp.

This is the best sounding I have owned to date.

To match this level sound in separates, you have to go over $1k each on amp and dac. ($2k total)

To surpass this combo you have to go over $2k each on dac & amp.($4 total)

It powers my hd800 very well and I haven't herd the hd800 sound better yet out of anything in that price range ($1200)

This combo will be a long "pit stop" for me, as anything noticeably better would be expensive "end-game" level and I don't feel a need to spend over $5k on maybe 5% improvement. .

So at this point, I can only recommend the HA-1 for any headphone not just the hd800, 
And I would skip all "mid-tier" level equipment untill you have savings to by $1k & up level stuff like the HA-1.

I would stick with a schiit Vali untill then..

Just my experience and opinion. .
Yours may vary.


----------



## frankrondaniel

maxx134 said:


> I have stopped the equipment climbing with the oppo HA-1 which is a dac/amp.
> 
> This is the best sounding I have owned to date.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for that feedback - I've been considering the HA-1.  Would you be able to describe the synergy with the HD800 in more detail?


----------



## Maxx134

frankrondaniel said:


> Thanks for that feedback - I've been considering the HA-1.  Would you be able to describe the synergy with the HD800 in more detail?



Yes.
For a time I started to realize that the hd800 soundstage is actually a bit exaggerated and sometimes instruments or parts of centered music sounded unnaturally stretched out..

Once I attained the HA-1 it solved this by "filling in" the wide soundstage with more details and spacial cues and ambiance so as to not sound unnatural any more..

Then I finally did the anax2.0 mod with much less :creatology foam"(only around driver unit) so as to keep the bass soundstage and original overall signature as before. 
Now I have what I feel is a balanced sound With very little loss of soundstage because of the HA-1 power when using the balanced xlr output which delivers more voltage and power to the hd800 so it has excellent control. .

The Ha-1 has very lively transparent sound without any harshness as you know the hd800 would reveal anything.

Also I use a Cardas cable and maybe makes a 0.5% improvement overall. 

Also using a "Furman power station" to keep the line clean..
Gave like almost a 1% improvement

Also using an Audioquest Carbon USB cable and that made another 2% improvement. .

Check the ha1 thread everyone says it is a transparent amp and dac is top Sabre and only thing that they try to put it up against is "end game" level stuff..


----------



## frankrondaniel

maxx134 said:


> Yes.
> For a time I started to realize that the hd800 soundstage is actually a bit exaggerated and sometimes instruments or parts of centered music sounded unnaturally stretched out..
> 
> Once I attained the HA-1 it solved this by "filling in" the wide soundstage with more details and spacial cues and ambiance so as to not sound unnatural any more..
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the info - I'll check out the HA-1 thread as well.


----------



## Maxx134

There is a review link on page 49 of the oppo ha1 thread. 
The review basically said that 
 the HA-1 larger width and good separation qualities will accentuate the natural presentation of the hd800. .
So basically it is a recommended unit for the hd800 

Edit: Funny how that review actually verified what I commented on about soundstage here and in that thread a while back. .
Edit:
Also don't agree with that review on planar headphones. .
To me the he560 is the one that changes the price point/value barrier


----------



## preproman

Battle of the All-in-ones..  Which one pairs best with the HD800
  
 Sennheiser HDVD800
  
 Mcintosh MHA-100
  
 Oppo HA-1
  
 Burson Conductor


----------



## kkcc

preproman said:


> Battle of the All-in-ones..  Which one pairs best with the HD800
> 
> Sennheiser HDVD800
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow looking forward to this.... not that I'm looking at any of these in particular but it would be a good shootout!  would be great if you can also throw in a NFB27/28 from audio-gd.....


----------



## Canadian411

preproman said:


> Battle of the All-in-ones..  Which one pairs best with the HD800
> 
> Sennheiser HDVD800
> 
> ...


 
 Can't wait. anyone has all 4 ?


----------



## preproman

canadian411 said:


> Can't wait. anyone has all 4 ?


 
  
 I sure don't - just saying it would be a good mini meet for someone..


----------



## nephilim32

bigfatpaulie said:


> Honestly, it's hard to compare.  The reason I say that is because my DHC is a balanced cable and the stock was single ended so it is not exactly an apples to apples comparison.  Having said that, switching to the new cable (and going balanced) did improve the sound.  What I noticed primarily was an increase in clarity and separation; but again, I don't know how much of that was from the interface change vs the cable.
> 
> You hear a lot of people talking about going to copper tames the highs of the HD800's, I personally did not experience that: that transition happened when I changed amps regardless of the cable or interface.  What I can tell you is that it is an extremely well made cable that looks great.  It is quite a bit stiffer and heavier than the stock cable is does get in the way.  Ergonomically it is inferior to the stock cable and the lead time is long.
> 
> ...




So well said. Could not agree more. These are my findings as well. Cables biggest differences or improvements lie in aesthetics mainly.


----------



## Canadian411

Yape same for me. Cable upgrade is mainly for the look unless the stock cable is really really cheap.


----------



## nephilim32

maxx134 said:


> I have stopped the equipment climbing with the oppo HA-1 which is a dac/amp.
> 
> This is the best sounding I have owned to date.
> 
> ...




I opinions will always vary to a huge degree when it comes to high end audio equipment. I am finding that a lot of amps and DACS out there aren't necessarily better than the other just different. Some however, are far better for the money and that is where quality research and testing really comes in handy. 

I've heard amazing things about that OPPO HA-1. It's definitely major bang for your dollar. I would take it over the HDV800 anyday and I'd save around 600$!!

Actually between my system's set up for headphone use I think I spent around 200$ more than you did, and you claim that the DAC portion in the OPPO measures up to the ARCAM irDAC? That's amazing then. The ARCAM performs like a 1500$ DAC and to my ears it's not a 'mid tier' DAC. It's completely high end, so I guess you are sitting pretty with that OPPO. Sounds great. Love to try it some day. Well done and enjoy. 

Lastly I'm sure the amp portion in the OPPO is every bit as good as say, the Burson soloist. I have found that amps don't make as dramatic a change compared to adding DACs into your sound chain. Getting a good DAC is far more noticeable I have found.


----------



## nephilim32

canadian411 said:


> Yape same for me. Cable upgrade is mainly for the look unless the stock cable is really really cheap.




I will tell ya something, the stock cable on the HD 800 is far from cheap. It's very high end and a quality build. Cables are something you should tinker with when you've reached an 'end game' or are completely satisfied with your chain of sound. They can be a huge waste of money if one is not careful.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

nephilim32 said:


> I will tell ya something, the stock cable on the HD 800 is far from cheap. It's very high end and a quality build. Cables are something you should tinker with when you've reached an 'end game' or are completely satisfied with your chain of sound. *They can be a huge waste of money if one is not careful.*


 
  
 Amen to that!!


----------



## nephilim32

silverears said:


> Hey Lug, I don't doubt you have experience.  The more gear you go through the more experience you have going through the gear. And I'm sure you've run into ones that you like and those that weren't please to your ears.  In the end, this is hobby, and for some search is the part of the fun.  Finding the right synergy as we all call it here is what we are all after so that we can get the best out of the phones.  I don't doubt you have gone thought lots of gear, and found the best that is pleasing to your ear. What is best to your ears it the best to your ears.  Transparency is on the top of the list for alot of us here, and we find it in different ways, whether it be the 800, or the right amp with it, or another setups.  Anyway, thanks for your posts, and those others that tried to help through my short journey.
> 
> Enjoy your 800s guys.
> 
> I'm really not looking to invest a whole lot to perfect the sound, so I will just stop like others recommended.




Yo Silver! 
It's alright to be inquisitive the way you have been, and I understand the urgency for answers when you are eager to buy some quality gear. It's certainly a lot of apples and oranges out there. Most high end equipment brands aren't necessarily better than the other...just different. These are my findings. Also. If you decide on getting the HD 800's over say, the LCD's or the crazy expensive electro static headphones Stax sr-009 certain AMP/DAC pairings are very necessary. For instance if you dig live music with a very neutral sound with fairly tight bass you go for the 800's with an SS amp. If you really dig warmth in your sound with punchy/blooming bass get the AUDEZE LCD 3's and pair it with a warm tube amp. If you want the whole grand picture where you can have any option of sound you want get the STAX and pair it with an electrostatic amp. That would be an "end game" but would cost ya 10-12 g's!!!

All in all. It amounts to sound tastes. Like I would never say the WA-SE6 woo audio tube amp is better than the Burson soloist. They are just different and both would certainly bring out all the character the 800's exhibit. 

Have fun shopping around. I'm gonna take your advice and enjoy my 800's now.


----------



## Canadian411

nephilim32 said:


> I will tell ya something, the stock cable on the HD 800 is far from cheap. It's very high end and a quality build. Cables are something you should tinker with when you've reached an 'end game' or are completely satisfied with your chain of sound. They can be a huge waste of money if one is not careful.




Yape I don't think the hd800 stock cable is bad. I still use the stock cable but probably will get shorten or buy 4 ft balanced cable from plussound.

One thing I noticed is the grado cables.
I had sr80i and replaced with diy my own mogami quad cable and noticed the difference.

That's just one example that I can share with you where the stock cable isn't that good.

I can be wrong but grado cables are cheap I think.

Anyone has the spec on grado cables?


----------



## blackwolf1006

I can only speak for my self when it comes to cables. I ordered a 5 feet cable from double helix cable. I bought it because i was tired of lugging around that long cable around. I can actually say the sound quality improved with the cable. I don't hear any interference at all after using the DH cable. Keep in mind I was using an adapter (1/4 to 1/18) for the HD800 stock cable. Maybe the signal leakage came from there.
  
 Nuff respect the guy at double helix cables.


----------



## XVampireX

nephilim32 said:


> I opinions will always vary to a huge degree when it comes to high end audio equipment. I am finding that a lot of amps and DACS out there aren't necessarily better than the other just different. Some however, are far better for the money and that is where quality research and testing really comes in handy.
> 
> I've heard amazing things about that OPPO HA-1. It's definitely major bang for your dollar. I would take it over the HDV800 anyday and I'd save around 600$!!
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 The whole chain is very important, the amps job is to amplify the DACs signal to the speakers/headphones. For sure if the DAC is inferior the amp won't make things much better, trash in trash out... but the whole chain is very important, indeed...


----------



## frankrondaniel

maxx134 said:


> There is a review link on page 49 of the oppo ha1 thread.
> The review basically said that
> the HA-1 larger width and good separation qualities will accentuate the natural presentation of the hd800. .
> So basically it is a recommended unit for the hd800
> ...


 
  
 Sounds like from your comments on the HA-1 thread that you find the HA-1 is preferable to the WA7/WA7tp combination for the HD800?


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

For me, I treat cables as another component in the reproduction chain, along with isolation, and dampening (in the case of tubed amplification), and balanced power, amongst others, in the same camp.
  
 I agree, the stock cable really is pretty decent. If you needed to replace the stock cable for any reason, I'd check out some alternate options. Not because mine broke or were worn out, but just because I wanted to try something else, I'm really enjoying the HD800's better with Alex's WyWire Red headphone cables. The WyWire Red headphone cable contributes to my overall music kit with much improved sound-staging, midrange body, and pure, extended bass. All traces of upper treble glare and stridency were resolved with the Red cable.


----------



## hmouse

preproman said:


> Battle of the All-in-ones..  Which one pairs best with the HD800
> 
> Sennheiser HDVD800
> 
> ...




How about Grace Design m903/m920, or even m905?


----------



## anetode

Guys, guys, I just got this incredible new completely original paintjob on my HD800s.


----------



## MattTCG

Nice...colorware?


----------



## amham

This combination has amazed me...
  
 HD800 (recent vintage)
 Benchmark DAC2 HGC (used as DAC/balanced)
 Woo WA-22 (selected tubes)
  
 The Woo significantly tames the HD800 top end yet preserves and enhances the soundstage.  The Benchmark re-enforces the immediacy without imparting any additional stridency.  Your choice of tubes allows to fine tune all of the above.
  
 Introducing an Audeze LCD-X flattens and enriches the SQ.
  
 A Grace m903 does better with a Hifiman HE-500 with any Woo.
  
 YMMV


----------



## icebear

How does it sound, hopefully not too dark ??


----------



## anetode

matttcg said:


> Nice...colorware?


 
 Yup. One-off, they've never done a black one before and they're gonna retire the color after this one.


icebear said:


> How does it sound, hopefully not too dark ??


 
 Coating the whole thing with paint has been the best damping mod so far.


----------



## Maxvla

Really now.


----------



## anetode

maxvla said:


> Really now.


 

 You just wish you thought of it first.


----------



## 62ohm

lololololololololol
  





 
  
  
 edit: I seem to recall that Maxvla painted his pair in 2012, was it?


----------



## koiloco

anetode said:


> Yup. One-off, they've never done a black one before and they're gonna retire the color after this one.
> Coating the whole thing with paint has been the best damping mod so far.


 
 I believe that's not true.  Sorry to bring you bad news.


----------



## Maxvla

You guys need to spray some Deox-it on your sarcasm detectors.


----------



## koiloco

62ohm said:


> lololololololololol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I believe you are correct but Maxvla could confirm for sure.


----------



## 62ohm

It (my post) wasn't a sarcasm mate, if that's what you're pointing at.


----------



## anetode

62ohm said:


> lololololololololol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If you're right then this "Maxvla" will be hearing from my lawyers!
  
  
  


Spoiler: Statement to Maxvla from anetode's legal representative



Thanks for the idea!


----------



## Sonido

I think Maxvla used photoshop on his avatar so therefore yours is one of a kind (unless your picture is photoshopped as well)


----------



## 62ohm

Sonido did you sell your K812?


----------



## koiloco

62ohm said:


> Sonido did you sell your K812?


 
 He never had K812.  All photoshopped...


----------



## Sonido

62ohm said:


> Sonido did you sell your K812?


 

 I did. Didn't have a great amp for a low impedance and didn't feel like spending towards one.


----------



## anetode

sonido said:


> I think Maxvla used photoshop on his avatar so therefore yours is one of a kind (unless your picture is photoshopped as well)


 
  
 Yes, 60mp Hasselblad --> 48bit RAW --> Lightroom --> Photoshop --> Head-Fi, how'd you know?


----------



## preproman

anetode said:


> Yup. One-off, they've never done a black one before and they're gonna retire the color after this one.


----------



## LugBug1

Here's the two original dark lords of transparency..
  
  
 Maxvla's matt black 'evil emperor' finish

  
  
 And Preproman's gloss 'Alien- destroyer of worlds' finish  

  
  
  
  
  
 and heres mine... Pink fluffy 'hello sailor' party finish


----------



## whirlwind




----------



## pearljam50000

Can anyone compare to Abyss AB-1266?


----------



## philo50

lugbug1 said:


> and heres mine... Pink fluffy 'hello sailor' party finish


 
 ....very fetching....too funny


----------



## pearljam50000

lol
There should be a Hello Kitty version for girls.


----------



## kkcc

lugbug1 said:


> and heres mine... Pink fluffy 'hello sailor' party finish


 

 I heard that for every purchase of the "*Pink fluffy 'hello sailor' party finish*", it comes with a real nice accessory..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  


Spoiler



Accessory:





 [/spolier]


----------



## Priidik

kkcc said:


> I heard that with every purchase of the "Pink fluffy 'hello sailor' party finish", it comes with a real nice accessory.....


 
  
 You made everybody who didn't buy that version look stupid, including girls!


----------



## icebear

pearljam50000 said:


> Can anyone compare to Abyss AB-1266?


 

 The AB-1266 is heavier, black only and not fluffy at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## pearljam50000

icebear said:


> The AB-1266 is heavier, black only and not fluffy at all  .



(;


----------



## Maxx134

frankrondaniel said:


> Sounds like from your comments on the HA-1 thread that you find the HA-1 is preferable to the WA7/WA7tp combination for the HD800?



The wa7tp essentially give the wa7 amp a sound a boost in dynamics and extra bass, and elevates it more to the level of woo more expensive offerings. .
But when I compared it to the ha-1 as I had both at same time,
I found the ha-1 to give me a more polished and expansive soundstage..
It was missing the tube euphoria but had this clean sparkle presentation wich was more clear to me..



nephilim32 said:


> ...
> I've heard amazing things about that OPPO HA-1. It's definitely major bang for your dollar. I would take it over the HDV800 anyday and I'd save around 600$!!
> 
> Actually between my system's set up for headphone use I think I spent around 200$ more than you did, and you claim that the DAC portion in the OPPO measures up to the ARCAM irDAC? That's amazing then. The ARCAM performs like a 1500$ DAC and to my ears it's not a 'mid tier' DAC. It's completely high end, so I guess you are sitting pretty with that OPPO. Sounds great. Love to try it some day. Well done and enjoy.
> ...


 .
It is hard for any dac to surpass the smooth clean polished presentation of the Arcam irdac. .
But top dacs like the matrix X-Sabre reach out a bit more details and liveliness if you can imagine it,
 yet the irDAC does have an extremely clean black background and it should be a top recommendation for a sensitive can like the hd800 as it is milky smooth without loosing air and detail retrieval.


----------



## Maxx134

preproman said:


> Battle of the All-in-ones..  Which one pairs best with the HD800
> 
> Sennheiser HDVD800
> 
> ...



Can't understand why some top end game components like the Mcintosh and Burnson don't do balanced headphone outputs,
So no matter how good, there is that drawback..


----------



## Sonido

maxx134 said:


> The wa7tp essentially give the wa7 amp a sound a boost in dynamics and extra bass, and elevates it more to the level of woo more expensive offerings. .
> But when I compared it to the ha-1 as I had both at same time,
> I found the ha-1 to give me a more polished and expansive soundstage..
> It was missing the tube euphoria but had this clean sparkle presentation wich was more clear to me..




I've found one of the reasons I prefer separate DAC and amp over a combo is the option of adding a tube preamp in the chain to counterbalance the characteristics of solid state amps. Granted my Questyle amp has none of that sterile, cold stereotypes many give to SS amps, and my Bottlehead Smash preamp is probably the most neutral tube amp I've ever heard.


----------



## frankrondaniel

maxx134 said:


> The wa7tp essentially give the wa7 amp a sound a boost in dynamics and extra bass, and elevates it more to the level of woo more expensive offerings. .
> But when I compared it to the ha-1 as I had both at same time,
> I found the ha-1 to give me a more polished and expansive soundstage..
> It was missing the tube euphoria but had this clean sparkle presentation wich was more clear to me..


 
  
 How are the 800's highs with the WA7? Not bright?


----------



## Revogamer

maxx134 said:


> Can't understand why some top end game components like the Mcintosh and Burnson don't do balanced headphone outputs,
> So no matter how good, there is that drawback..


 
 Don't want to start a flame war or anything but you do realise that balanced out is only better if the amp if designed to be balanced throughout.
  
 The connections themselves don't make any difference in the use we have (reduced noise afaik for longer lengths?)

 When you use the HDVD800 single ended - because it is designed to be balanced throughout; you only end up using half of the amplifier - as balanced is essentially 'mono block' amplifiers - both inside the single amp.
  
 But when you have the burson conductor for example - It is only a single amp, so if you put a 4 pin XLR on the front it would be exactly the same as having a 1/4" jack there.
  
 Have a look at the HiFiMAN EF-6 - identical on both outputs; single ended amp they just stuck it there for the sake of it.


----------



## LugBug1

maxx134 said:


> Can't understand why some top end game components like the Mcintosh and Burnson don't do balanced headphone outputs,
> So no matter how good, there is that drawback..


 
 Might be coz theres no need??


----------



## whirlwind

New dac on its way....should be here by early next week, cant wait to hear my HD800 with it.
  
 http://www.psaudio.com/products/nuwave-dac/


----------



## LugBug1

whirlwind said:


> New dac on its way....should be here by early next week, cant wait to hear my HD800 with it.
> 
> http://www.psaudio.com/products/nuwave-dac/


 
 Nice!
  
 Keep us informed


----------



## whirlwind

lugbug1 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > New dac on its way....should be here by early next week, cant wait to hear my HD800 with it.
> ...


 
  Sure....will do


----------



## erikfreedom

can someone please remind me what kind of sharpie pen is the best to remove paint chipping on hd 800. I know it has been discussed on this thread and I d'ont want to go back 800 pages, thanks.


----------



## LugBug1

erikfreedom said:


> can someone please remind me what kind of sharpie pen is the best to remove paint chipping on hd 800. I know it has been discussed on this thread and I d'ont want to go back 800 pages, thanks.


 
 http://www.amazon.com/Sharpie-Oil-Based-Markers-Silver-Marker/dp/B000I0VMJU


----------



## erikfreedom

lugbug1 said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Sharpie-Oil-Based-Markers-Silver-Marker/dp/B000I0VMJU


 

 thanks.


----------



## preproman

erikfreedom said:


> can someone please remind me what kind of sharpie pen is the best to remove paint chipping on hd 800. I know it has been discussed on this thread and I d'ont want to go back 800 pages, thanks.


 
  
 http://www.colorware.com/p-289-sennheiser-hd-800.aspx


----------



## erikfreedom

preproman said:


> http://www.colorware.com/p-289-sennheiser-hd-800.aspx


 

 thanks my friend. I knew about coloware but the thing is that I am selling my entire collection of headphone related gear to focus only on my he-6 setup. hd 800 are for sale like all the rest of my stuff. my hd 800 journey is at an end. they are exceptional headphones, but I like he-6 more.


----------



## preproman

erikfreedom said:


> thanks my friend. I knew about coloware but the thing is that I am selling my entire collection of headphone related gear to focus only on my he-6 setup. hd 800 are for sale like all the rest of my stuff. my hd 800 journey is at an end. they are exceptional headphones, but I like he-6 more.


 
  
 Congrats..


----------



## lin0003

Just had a listen to the LCD-X and I was quite impressed, it was better than the LCD-3 IMO but I like the HD800 much more. I also tried the Stax SR-009, which was about as good as the HD800 on a 007 amp and AK240, which was interesting. I wonder how good they can get with a better amp and DAC.


----------



## longbowbbs

lin0003 said:


> Just had a listen to the LCD-X and I was quite impressed, it was better than the LCD-3 IMO but I like the HD800 much more. I also tried the Stax SR-009, which was about as good as the HD800 on a 007 amp and AK240, which was interesting. I wonder how good they can get with a better amp and DAC.


 
 I have found both the HD650's and the HD800's scale well. The better the Source/Amp, they better they sound.


----------



## lin0003

longbowbbs said:


> I have found both the HD650's and the HD800's scale well. The better the Source/Amp, they better they sound.


 
 Not sure about the HD650, but that is definitely true for the HD800. It is very revealing of source/amp changes.


----------



## longbowbbs

lin0003 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I have found both the HD650's and the HD800's scale well. The better the Source/Amp, they better they sound.
> ...


 
 The HD650 does finally hit a wall....I have not found a wall for the HD800's yet. They just get better as I improve other gear.


----------



## 62ohm

longbowbbs said:


> lin0003 said:
> 
> 
> > longbowbbs said:
> ...


 
  
 Bad news for my wallet then..


----------



## longbowbbs

62ohm said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > lin0003 said:
> ...


 
 Well....This IS Head-Fi.....


----------



## icebear

longbowbbs said:


> Well....This IS Head-Fi.....


 

 LOL, yeah ... to join is free but there are the so called related costs, I guess that what that stuff is called .


----------



## longbowbbs

icebear said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Well....This IS Head-Fi.....
> ...


 
 Head-Fi....Where everything is Ala Cart......


----------



## pearljam50000

I'm thinking of getting a Geekout for the HD800 instead of a desktop Amp/DAC because it's light and portable, and it's hard for me to sit alot of hours at the same place, is there a huge difference between the Geekout and desktop DAC/amp? plus, is the 720mw version good enough, and is there anything portable for 350$ or less that's better than the Geekout.


----------



## kothganesh

pearljam50000 said:


> I'm thinking of getting a Geekout for the HD800 instead of a desktop Amp/DAC because it's light and portable, and it's hard for me to sit alot of hours at the same place, is there a huge difference between the Geekout and desktop DAC/amp? plus, is the 720mw version good enough, and is there anything portable for 350$ or less that's better than the Geekout.


 
 I tried my Geek Out 720 very very briefly with the HD 800 hence I'm loath to post definitive impressions. It does sound very good with my HD 650 with the Macbook Air as the source. So that's my weekend project then. For now, the 800 sounds sublime with the Crack/Speedball. I have sent the Crack to be modified further with a film capacitor and chokes (shout out to Jamie for the ideas and Moatsart for the parts).


----------



## nephilim32

maxx134 said:


> The wa7tp essentially give the wa7 amp a sound a boost in dynamics and extra bass, and elevates it more to the level of woo more expensive offerings. .
> But when I compared it to the ha-1 as I had both at same time,
> I found the ha-1 to give me a more polished and expansive soundstage..
> It was missing the tube euphoria but had this clean sparkle presentation wich was more clear to me..
> ...


M

Absolutely correct. I hear zero white or pink noise in my rig. The ARCAM is playing a giant pivotal role in doing that. Pitch pitch black baby! Nothing but sonic joy. I can't complain. I know I've almost reached an End game with headphone listening.


----------



## magiccabbage

What do you guys think is a good dark complimentary headphone for HD800. I am selling my T1 soon and thinking of going for another headphone that sounds a lot different from HD800. I was thinking maybe LCD XC but should I go for the LCD 2; I'm afraid that the LCD X might be too similar to HD800. I wouldn't mind something with loads of bottom so I was thinking maybe LCD 2. I dunno what to do.


----------



## 62ohm

magiccabbage said:


> What do you guys think is a good dark complimentary headphone for HD800. I am selling my T1 soon and thinking of going for another headphone that sounds a lot different from HD800. I was thinking maybe LCD XC but should I go for the LCD 2; I'm afraid that the LCD X might be too similar to HD800. I wouldn't mind something with loads of bottom so I was thinking maybe LCD 2. I dunno what to do.


 
  
 I'm currently searching for a complementary phones as well and I have ruled out the offerings from Audez'e due to their weight and (to me) very uncomfortable. The candidates for me right now is either HD600 or HD650, which makes me happy since both are much, much cheaper than any from the Audez'e lineup


----------



## kothganesh

magiccabbage said:


> What do you guys think is a good dark complimentary headphone for HD800. I am selling my T1 soon and thinking of going for another headphone that sounds a lot different from HD800. I was thinking maybe LCD XC but should I go for the LCD 2; I'm afraid that the LCD X might be too similar to HD800. I wouldn't mind something with loads of bottom so I was thinking maybe LCD 2. I dunno what to do.


 
 TH 900. period.


----------



## Maxvla

Used PM-1, or PM-2 if the sound is similar.


----------



## lin0003

The LCD-X is very different to the HD800.


----------



## froger

magiccabbage said:


> What do you guys think is a good dark complimentary headphone for HD800. I am selling my T1 soon and thinking of going for another headphone that sounds a lot different from HD800. I was thinking maybe LCD XC but should I go for the LCD 2; I'm afraid that the LCD X might be too similar to HD800. I wouldn't mind something with loads of bottom so I was thinking maybe LCD 2. I dunno what to do.


 
 May want to consider HE400i, which is supposed to release next month.


----------



## anetode

magiccabbage said:


> What do you guys think is a good dark complimentary headphone for HD800. I am selling my T1 soon and thinking of going for another headphone that sounds a lot different from HD800. I was thinking maybe LCD XC but should I go for the LCD 2; I'm afraid that the LCD X might be too similar to HD800. I wouldn't mind something with loads of bottom so I was thinking maybe LCD 2. I dunno what to do.


 

 Do you actually like dark headphones or do you think you should get one just as a counter to the HD800? By dark do you mean a rolled off response from the treble or the upper mids, or do you mean an elevated lower mid response but even otherwise? There's no magic recipe here, it's all up to your preferences.


----------



## kkcc

magiccabbage said:


> What do you guys think is a good dark complimentary headphone for HD800. I am selling my T1 soon and thinking of going for another headphone that sounds a lot different from HD800. I was thinking maybe LCD XC but should I go for the LCD 2; I'm afraid that the LCD X might be too similar to HD800. I wouldn't mind something with loads of bottom so I was thinking maybe LCD 2. I dunno what to do.




I think a pre fazor late LCD3 would be best amongst the audeze lineup. Alternatively you can also consider pm1, he500, or th900 for a closed model.


----------



## PleasantSounds

62ohm said:


> I'm currently searching for a complementary phones as well and I have ruled out the offerings from Audez'e due to their weight and (to me) very uncomfortable. The candidates for me right now is either HD600 or HD650, which makes me happy since both are much, much cheaper than any from the Audez'e lineup


 
  
 Another vote for the TH900. A lot of people say they're bass monsters, but at least with my gear this doesn't obscure the rest of the frequency spectrum, while giving rich, full and well controlled bass. Comfort wise they're way ahead of Audeze.


----------



## Twangsta

I just had the most amazing weekend, Vitamin A with HD800s is a phenomenal experience. Was so good that next day the rig sounded lacklustre 

 Can't wait for my BCL to arrive, hoping it'll inject some life back in to the experience.


----------



## magiccabbage

62ohm said:


> I'm currently searching for a complementary phones as well and I have ruled out the offerings from Audez'e due to their weight and (to me) very uncomfortable. The candidates for me right now is either HD600 or HD650, which makes me happy since both are much, much cheaper than any from the Audez'e lineup


 
 Hmmm. I had the HD650 before and am looking for something else. I liked it - it was very warm and dark with my WA2. Some people have said that the LCD 2 is like a HD650 on steroids which was one of the reasons I had considered it. 


kothganesh said:


> TH 900. period.


 
 Yea I might go for this. It is supposed to sound great with the DNA Stratus and I have one coming in september. The HD800/TH900 - DNA Stratus would be a nice complementary pairing.  


maxvla said:


> Used PM-1, or PM-2 if the sound is similar.


 
 you think? I hadn't considered Oppo at all. I don't like the look of it too much either. Thanks for the suggestion though.


lin0003 said:


> The LCD-X is very different to the HD800.


 
 How different? I would like to use an Audeze can for electronic/pop/hip hop and the HD800 for everything else. What is slam and impact like on the LCD X - I don't think I even want neutral - I think something more fun with lots of power, so maybe the TH900. 


anetode said:


> Do you actually like dark headphones or do you think you should get one just as a counter to the HD800? By dark do you mean a rolled off response from the treble or the upper mids, or do you mean an elevated lower mid response but even otherwise? There's no magic recipe here, it's all up to your preferences.


 
 I'm looking for fun basically - I don't really care about flat response and neutrality because my HD800 will give me that. I do like a dark sound - I had the HD650 and used to use it with my cowon j3 and fiio e11 - It had tones of slam with pop and electro. I remember listening to the Michael Jackson song "black or white" and the part at the start of the song where there is a banging on the door of macaulay culkin's bedroom. That sound - I want that sound back. It was great fun.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

magiccabbage said:


> Hmmm. I had the HD650 before and am looking for something else. I liked it - it was very warm and dark with my WA2. Some people have said that the LCD 2 is like a HD650 on steroids which was one of the reasons I had considered it.
> Yea I might go for this. It is supposed to sound great with the DNA Stratus and I have one coming in september. The HD800/TH900 - DNA Stratus would be a nice complementary pairing.
> you think? I hadn't considered Oppo at all. I don't like the look of it too much either. Thanks for the suggestion though.
> How different? I would like to use an Audeze can for electronic/pop/hip hop and the HD800 for everything else. What is slam and impact like on the LCD X - I don't think I even want neutral - I think something more fun with lots of power, so maybe the TH900.
> I'm looking for fun basically - I don't really care about flat response and neutrality because my HD800 will give me that. I do like a dark sound - I had the HD650 and used to use it with my cowon j3 and fiio e11 - It had tones of slam with pop and electro. I remember listening to the Michael Jackson song "black or white" and the part at the start of the song where there is a banging on the door of macaulay culkin's bedroom. That sound - I want that sound back. It was great fun.


 
  
 Sounds like you are at where I was about a month ago.  I wanted something to compliment my HD800's, but was totally different.  I wanted something with slam, playfulness and that would be more forgiving than the HD800's but still very detailed.  
  
 I've listened the to TH900's on several occasions and (and this is a matter of personal preference) I REALLY don't like them.  I auditioned the LCD-X's and they were nice and might be a good choice as an all rounder but more similar than different to the HD800's.
  
 Then I put on the LCD3's they were an instant YES!  I liked them immediately and were exactly what I was looking for.  And this was much to my surprise because I went in thinking the LCD-X or the HE-6's were best options.  I don't know if you have heard the LCD3's, or the TH-900's, but for what you are asking, I personally strongly feel that the LCD3's are, for what you asking for, a better fit....  ...  ...  IMHO


----------



## jsgraha

I did like th900 out of stratus, but still prefer lcd-x though (compared to th900). Imo, eventhough the 900 sound its best pairing with stratus, I still felt that its treble sound a bit odd (a friend describe it a bit plasticky, which I did agree). Prefer both lcd-x and lcd-3 to th900 (but decided to go for x since it synergize better with my setup as a whole).

But I still prefer my hd800 though to lcd-x (and that including bass impact)


----------



## pearljam50000

I'm thinking of getting a used pair without warranty, Did anyone had any problems during the first two years? and i general how tough and reliable are they?


----------



## longbowbbs

pearljam50000 said:


> I'm thinking of getting a used pair without warranty, Did anyone had any problems during the first two years? and i general how tough and reliable are they?


 
 Considering most of us are going to treat out TOTL headphones with care, they have performed flawlessly without a singel chip on the materials for a couple of years now.


----------



## MattTCG

Just wanted to send out a thank you to Fearless1, LugBug and others that gave me the encouragement to pull the trigger on the 800. Cheers guys...the 800 is everything that you promised and more. 
  
 Since I've received the 800, the 650 collects dust. I got in the he560 a few days ago for review. I listened to it for a few days to do the review. Even though I have it till Monday I've put it away and am back to the 800. 
  
 Again, many thanks!!


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> Just wanted to send out a thank you to Fearless1, LugBug and others that gave me the encouragement to pull the trigger on the 800. Cheers guys...the 800 is everything that you promised and more.
> 
> Since I've received the 800, the 650 collects dust. I got in the he560 a few days ago for review. I listened to it for a few days to do the review. Even though I have it till Monday I've put it away and am back to the 800.
> 
> Again, many thanks!!


 

 i was thinking about asking how it was going between the HFM and the SENN, and i just got my answer


----------



## pearljam50000

Can you do a quick he560 vs HD800?


----------



## MattTCG

pearljam50000 said:


> Can you do a quick he560 vs HD800?


 
  
 Quick? Not really good at quick.
  
 I haven't finished writing that review but I'll give you the short answer. I wouldn't trade the 560 for the 800 even if they were the same price, although the 560 puts up a very good fight and for a considerably less amount of money. 
  
 The 560 is a wonderful hp with a few faults. And it competes well against the 800. I would go as far as to same it's in the same "class" with the 800 which is high praise from me. The comfort, mids and fact that it is easily amped are strong points for the 560. The decay offered by the 560 is very good, especially in the bass region. But...
  
 the 800 is more comfortable still. The bass is similar on both hp's. Treble extension, sound stage and imaging on the 800 is leagues above the 560 and IMO compete with stats. I like the mids even more on the 800 as they produce a more natural "tone" where the 560 mids, while good, can sound artificial sometimes.


----------



## Fearless1

matttcg said:


> Just wanted to send out a thank you to Fearless1, LugBug and others that gave me the encouragement to pull the trigger on the 800. Cheers guys...the 800 is everything that you promised and more.
> 
> Since I've received the 800, the 650 collects dust. I got in the he560 a few days ago for review. I listened to it for a few days to do the review. Even though I have it till Monday I've put it away and am back to the 800.
> 
> Again, many thanks!!


 
 Good stuff Matt, as always you are a class act!  The dismissiveness of those who believe everything they read or have heard them with gear that does not synergize well is sometimes contagious .  
  
  They are amazing. I wrote them off thinking they were not for me,  then came the revelation .  I hope you are enjoying them as much as I do.


----------



## Mortalcoil

Agree that the TH-900 is a perfect compliment to the HD-800.  Great transparency and not as analytical for those times when its not required or desired.
  
 Not a bass monster IMO but when called upon its there for the taking.


----------



## kugino

mortalcoil said:


> Agree that the TH-900 is a perfect compliment to the HD-800.  Great transparency and not as analytical for those times when its not required or desired.
> 
> Not a bass monster IMO but when called upon its there for the taking.


 
 agreed! i was surprised at how refined and transparent the th900 are. but much more forgiving than the hd800 and better suited to a wider range of music. hd800 certainly has its strengths, too...


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> Just wanted to send out a thank you to Fearless1, LugBug and others that gave me the encouragement to pull the trigger on the 800. Cheers guys...the 800 is everything that you promised and more.
> 
> Since I've received the 800, the 650 collects dust. I got in the he560 a few days ago for review. I listened to it for a few days to do the review. Even though I have it till Monday I've put it away and am back to the 800.
> 
> Again, many thanks!!


 
 Hey you're welcome buddy and I'm pleased we have you on board 
  
 Look forward to your 560 review Matt


----------



## whirlwind

matttcg said:


> Just wanted to send out a thank you to Fearless1, LugBug and others that gave me the encouragement to pull the trigger on the 800. Cheers guys...the 800 is everything that you promised and more.
> 
> Since I've received the 800, the 650 collects dust. I got in the he560 a few days ago for review. I listened to it for a few days to do the review. Even though I have it till Monday I've put it away and am back to the 800.
> 
> Again, many thanks!!


 
  
 After about a week with the HD800, I finally sold my HD650.......just this past week I sold my RS1i.   i loved both of these cans, but I was just basically looking at them
  
 on their headphone stands, while I listened to the HD800
  
 I put that money toward my new dac


----------



## MattTCG

lugbug1 said:


> Hey you're welcome buddy and I'm pleased we have you on board
> 
> *Look forward to your 560 review Matt*


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/hifiman-he-560/reviews/11263


----------



## koiloco

On a sad note, my favorite bass player/musician, Charlie Haden, just passed away.


----------



## MickeyVee

I hear you.. I loved my RS1i's and did some nice cosmetic mods on them.  A nice distraction for a while and look real pretty on its glass head stand.. up for sale.
 Still looking for a pair of headphones that will mate up well with my A&K 100 MkII.  Not so good with the HD800.
  
 Quote:


whirlwind said:


> After about a week with the HD800, I finally sold my HD650.......just this past week I sold my RS1i.   i loved both of these cans, but I was just basically looking at them


----------



## pearljam50000

Has anyone tried Benchmark DAC1 with D800?


----------



## ziggysp2000

Greetings all!
  
 I figured it was about time I posted to this particular thread, since i am the new proud owner of serial 29514. The first couple of days I found the ear pads a little itchy and the exact fitting of the cans a bit fidgety , though after a day or two of letting the alcantara break in and playing with the headband adjustments, it is now in an ideal setting and is supremely comfortable for hours at a time.
  
 As for sonics, I have them paired with a Burson Soloist SL amp and a Ressonesence Concero DAC and am very satisfied. The imaging is fantastic, the detail intricate, there is adequate of bass response for my tastes and I'd never call them 'bright'. By enlarge I found them to sound very 'natural', and that's just fine (though yes, ruthlessly honest). 
  
 Anywho... yey!  
  
 Now to see where I go next...to compliment them.


----------



## BleaK

pearljam50000 said:


> Has anyone tried Benchmark DAC1 with D800?


 
 Yup. It was ok as a DAC/amp, but nothing special. A tad too bright, but still decent sound.


----------



## Mortalcoil

ziggysp2000 said:


> Greetings all!
> 
> I figured it was about time I posted to this particular thread, since i am the new proud owner of serial 29514. The first couple of days I found the ear pads a little itchy and the exact fitting of the cans a bit fidgety , though after a day or two of letting the alcantara break in and playing with the headband adjustments, it is now in an ideal setting and is supremely comfortable for hours at a time.
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats ... good to see your enjoying them.  Next stop maybe a good closed solution? lol .....something that will compliment that Soloist....hmmm perhaps a TH-900* (SORRY ABOUT YOUR WALLET...HAVE FUN)*


----------



## SilverEars

Me
  

  
 With
  

  
 Because of


----------



## kothganesh

kugino said:


> agreed! i was surprised at how refined and transparent the *th900* are. but much *more forgiving* than the hd800 and *better suited to a wider range of music*. hd800 certainly has its strengths, too...


 
 Nailed it. I have some lousy recordings and wince when I hear them through the 800. The 900 is definitely much more charitable to these recordings though... For rock, IMO, you don't need that much soundstage and detail but the HD 800 does a fantastic job without going overboard especially when paired with tube amps (my Crack and the ZD).


----------



## Maxx134

frankrondaniel said:


> How are the 800's highs with the WA7? Not bright?



they seemed just fine from memory



matttcg said:


> Just wanted to send out a thank you to Fearless1, LugBug and others that gave me the encouragement to pull the trigger on the 800. Cheers guys...the 800 is everything that you promised and more.
> 
> ... I got in the he560 a few days ago for review. I listened to it for a few days to do the review. Even though I have it till Monday I've put it away and am back to the 800.
> 
> Again, many thanks!!



I too was surprised to hear the bass at a similar level between those two.


No matter what I put up against the hd800, somehow it just seems a permanent addition, while all others may come and go.

A used 800 is probably the best buy anyone could ever make..


----------



## MattTCG

I have my 800's on loan starting today. It's gonna be a long week!


----------



## kothganesh

matttcg said:


> I have my 800's on loan starting today. It's gonna be a long week!



Feel for ya. I just got my BH Crack modded with a choke and the HD 800 was so good that the gentleman that modded it for me spent a straight 4 hours listening to piano recordings and golden oldies. He was like" I've never heard this soundstage and nary a distortion." He gave me back the Crack the 800 rather reluctantly.


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> I have my 800's on loan starting today. It's gonna be a long week!


 

 every time i think about selling the lcd x, i get that feeling that you're feeling now, except you know your's is coming back!


----------



## MattTCG

I really like the 800 on the Crack.


----------



## OldSkool

maxx134 said:


> A used 800 is probably the best buy anyone could ever make..


 
 True dat!


----------



## Fearless1

matttcg said:


> I have my 800's on loan starting today. It's gonna be a long week!


 

 I was actually going to send mine down to you to try with the Crack (before you got them), I couldn't do it......


----------



## kothganesh

matttcg said:


> I really like the 800 on the Crack.


 
 +1. Hearing the piano was a revelation for me today. That is a special combo.


----------



## MattTCG

Just got a new custom cable from Trevor at Norne Audio. Beautifully built and sounds good as it looks. Very flexible, zero microphonics and soft as a babies butt.


----------



## deadie

I recently picked up a McIntosh MC2205 amp and C35 preamp and paired with my Chord Hugo, it's been fun and rewarding to hear how good this decades old gear performs with modern headphones.
  
 The HD800 sounds really good out of the MC2205.  I originally bought the Hugo for its analog qualities and liquid midrange, and while the HD800 directly out of the Hugo was slightly underpowered, the SQ is fantastic.  
  
 When paired with a variety of other headphone amps, I found them to color Hugo's sound, dull it a bit, and haven't yet found the ideal amp to pair with the Hugo & HD800.  The Aurelic Taurus MkII and GSX MkII were two that I found / heard that "least-screwed-up" Hugo's sound.  Both amps have super synergy with the HD800.
  
 The HD800 out of the MC2205 in conjunction with the C35 retains the Hugo's musicality, but "tubes" it a bit.  The Hugo on its own is amazing for conveying "real sounding" music, very clear, tons of resolution.  The Mac gear warms up the sound, perhaps even de-rez's a tiny tiny bit, but puts forth beneficial smooth musicality, and doesn't dull or flatten the sound.
  
 FWIW, the Audeze X sounded good, but not as stellar as the Mac pairing with the HD800.  There's some real synergy there with Mac and Senn.  The Senn HD800 was always super clear, incredible imaging.  The Mac gear gave it bigger balls, fuller mids and bass, without sacrificing clarity.


----------



## perplekks45

As I already posted *here* I am currently looking around for recommendations/input for an amp/dac to couple with the HD800. Within a budget limit of around 1500 Euros shipped and essentially asking the following question:
  

Good amp/DAC for GS1000i, LCD-X, HD800 for 1500 EUR (= 1200 GBP = 2000 USD).
Current favourites: Oppo HA-1, Chord Hugo.
DAC part important because of possible future addition of a McIntosh MHA-100
  
 Current setup:
  
 MacBook Pro 2011 > Musical Fidelity V-DAC II > Lehmann Linear > Grado GS1000i or Audeze LCD-X
  
 Basically, I am looking to replace the V-DAC and, if it would improve sound quality significantly, the Lehmann. Currently I don't own a pair of HD800, just the GS1000i and LCD-X. So there is no urgent update needed, just asking around for ideas.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## kothganesh

Anybody try the 800 with the Burson Soloist?


----------



## kkcc

perplekks45 said:


> As I already posted *here* I am currently looking around for recommendations/input for an amp/dac to couple with the HD800. Within a budget limit of around 1500 Euros shipped and essentially asking the following question:
> 
> 
> Good amp/DAC for GS1000i, LCD-X, HD800 for 1500 EUR (= 1200 GBP = 2000 USD).
> ...




You may want to look at the Metrum Octave II and the Chord Hugo. Both should be within your price range and I find them pairs well with my HD800.


----------



## perplekks45

Added the Metrum to my list, thanks.


----------



## jsgraha

kothganesh said:


> Anybody try the 800 with the Burson Soloist?




I have these combo for 1.5 years. I like them, but it will depend a lot on the source. I slightly prefer zana though when compare between both (using my previous audio-gd ref5 fed by ap2). More dynamic and engaging while soloist more laid back.


----------



## kothganesh

jsgraha said:


> I have these combo for 1.5 years. I like them, but it will depend a lot on the source. I slightly prefer zana though when compare between both (using my previous audio-gd ref5 fed by ap2). More dynamic and engaging while soloist more laid back.


 
 That's the thing with the Burson. It has this laid-back character that sometimes hinders me in terms of wanting to get into the music and really enjoying it (as in foot tapping). But to me the HD 800 is not that type of HP as well (as opposed to say the TH 900).


----------



## nehcrow

matttcg said:


> I really like the 800 on the Crack.


 
 Who wouldn't like the HD800 on crack? Hehe
 ...But seriously this is my dream setup O_O


----------



## MattTCG

I have heard the 800 also on a couple of very good SS amps. I would rather have a good SS amp to complement my Crack/800's than more hp's at this point in the game.


----------



## kothganesh

matttcg said:


> I have heard the 800 also on a couple of very good SS amps. I would rather have a good SS amp to complement my Crack/800's than more hp's at this point in the game.




Talk to me, my good man. What SS amp do you like with the 800? My Mojo is not suited to the 800, IMO


----------



## Mahdi8

Crack and hd800 is just right for me. Perfect combination of value and performance. Sure you can go better but you have to spend so much more


----------



## MattTCG

kothganesh said:


> Talk to me, my good man. What SS amp do you like with the 800? My Mojo is not suited to the 800, IMO


 
  
  


mahdi8 said:


> Crack and hd800 is just right for me. Perfect combination of value and performance. Sure you can go better but you have to spend so much more


 
  
 There is a lot of bang for the buck goodness in the 800/crack combo. It's a rich, organic flavor that the crack puts into the 800. I'm not sure that anything at the price point can compete...maybe the Vali, but I haven't had the Vali and the 800 at the same time, so I won't comment. 
  
 With regard to SS amps, the gs-x mkii is the end game amp for the 800 IMO.  I'd love to hear that amp again and compare it at the same time with the Crack. My memory recalls better bass and more transparency with the gs-x mkii. It was better across the board TBH...but also 10x the price. If I had the money, I'd buy the gs-x and be done.


----------



## kothganesh

matttcg said:


> ..........,,
> 
> With regard to SS amps, the gs-x mkii is the end game amp for the 800 IMO.  I'd love to hear that amp again and compare it at the same time with the Crack. My memory recalls better bass and more transparency with the gs-x mkii. It was better across the board TBH...but also 10x the price. If I had the money, I'd buy the gs-x and be done.




Looks like the GS-X is the endgame amp for a lot of HPs. Wonder how that does with the HE 6. Then I'd be done with SS amps at least.


----------



## MattTCG

kothganesh said:


> Looks like the GS-X is the endgame amp for a lot of HPs. Wonder how that does with the HE 6. Then I'd be done with SS amps at least.


 
  
 That's a great question. I have only heard the gs-x with the 800's. Maybe someone else can chime in.


----------



## punit

kothganesh said:


> Looks like the GS-X is the endgame amp for a lot of HPs. Wonder how that does with the HE 6. Then I'd be done with SS amps at least.


 

 The M9 drives both (HD 800 & HE 6) beautifully.


----------



## kothganesh

punit said:


> The M9 drives both (HD 800 & HE 6) beautifully.


 
 I suppose though, just by reading the thread, that the speaker amps are just a class above the headphone amps for the HE 6. Or is this statement too much of a generalization?


----------



## punit

Depends on the speaker amp, The M9 can outperform some speaker amps for the HE-6.


----------



## nigeljames

kothganesh said:


> I suppose though, just by reading the thread, that the speaker amps are just a class above the headphone amps for the HE 6. *Or is this statement too much of a generalization?*


 
  
 Yep.
  
 I have heard a number of < £800 speaker amps from the like of Yamaha, Rotel, NAD, Marantz etc and none were better than my Master-6 driving the HE-6's.
  
 I do feel that a speaker amp would ultimately be the best choice for the HE-6 but in my experience you have to go higher up the food chain to the £1000 level at least, which is basically Master-9 money anyway.
  
 And then you will be left with an amp that will have less flexibility than the Master-9 or any other high powered headphone amp.
  
 As I have a Cyrus CD player (used as a transport) I am tempted to try the Cyrus X power amp, but then I listen to the HE-6's, and can't be bothered!


----------



## Roth_s

I was having an email discussion with an audio buddy and decided to share my thoughts here regarding the comparison of HE-560 to the HD800:
  
_I have been listening well into the early morning hours last four nights with the Teac HA-501, comparing the HD800 and HE-560 cans. I am extremely impressed with the amp, which seems to be opening up more and more. It find it bizarre that it seems to require a very long break in time._
 
_So far, I have to give the edge to the HD800 and that lead is by a baby's hair. If the HD800 had more deep bass it would be a clear winner. OTOH, the HD800 has a slight rise in that sibilance region that excludes favor with much recorded material. When I go back to the 560, I am floored at how damned neutral it is, and how perfect the bass! It is truly a fantastic headphone. And the HD800 is breathtaking at conveying with precision the recording details - soundstaging, imaging, low level details, lower midrange naturalness, and everything about the "bones" of the recording. It is extremely revealing._
 
People want to compare these two headphones which is a little unfair to me for the simple reason they are state of the art examples of two operating types: Dynamic (HD800) and Planar Magnetic (HE-560). The HD800 excels at some dynamic "snap" and imaging/soundstaging while the HE-560 excels at neutrality and very wide bandwidth with extremely well controlled and low distortion deep bass.
 
In short, with the right amp (and I think I found a good match for both in the Teac), they are to me equal.


----------



## Canadian411

roth_s said:


> I was having an email discussion with an audio buddy and decided to share my thoughts here regarding the comparison of HE-560 to the HD800:
> 
> _I have been listening well into the early morning hours last four nights with the Teac HA-501, comparing the HD800 and HE-560 cans. I am extremely impressed with the amp, which seems to be opening up more and more. It find it bizarre that it seems to require a very long break in time._
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't have a very expensive amps but from what I've read better amp will scale lot more for HD800, I was looking at this teac amp, looks very good nice design by the way 
  
 I ordered a balanced cable from plussound so I can maybe share how hd800 improves SE vs balanced out.


----------



## Roth_s

canadian411 said:


> I don't have a very expensive amps but from what I've read better amp will scale lot more for HD800, I was looking at this teac amp, looks very good nice design by the way
> 
> I ordered a balanced cable from plussound so I can maybe share how hd800 improves SE vs balanced out.


 
 This is what I found out. The HD800 is - not just picky - but extremely picky about what you put in front of it: amp, wires, source, etc. With the Teac it is quite a different headphone.
  
 Before the Teac HA-501 I was using a very modified Heed Canamp and thought it was so-so, also I use a newly-built Bottlehead Crack w/Speedball and found this helped the overall balance of the HD800 and much more engaging, yet I still thought the HD800 was far from living up to its potential. (Anyone want the Crack amp?)
  
 The Teac is a real sleeper.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

matttcg said:


> Just got a new custom cable from Trevor at Norne Audio. Beautifully built and sounds good as it looks. Very flexible, zero microphonics and soft as a babies butt.




Matt, how are you liking your Norne? Wrong thread, but thinking about a Norne Vanquix for my Alpha Dogs, what kind of sonic impact did you hear/find?


----------



## MattTCG

wildcatsare1 said:


> Matt, how are you liking your Norne? Wrong thread, but thinking about a Norne Vanquix for my Alpha Dogs, what kind of sonic impact did you hear/find?


 
  
 I had the Vanquish with the AD and now the 800. Again I not a huge proponent of sonic improvements with cables, but I was very impressed with what I heard with both of those hp's over the stock cable. It's a very very good cable and well worth the cost IMO. 
  
 Oh, for me the hd800 is like an special glass of red wine...pinot noir. There is so much complexity and flavor that must be savored and appreciated slowly...patiently. Beer drinkers need not apply.


----------



## TwoEars

> Oh, for me the hd800 is like an special glass of red wine...pinot noir. There is so much complexity and flavor that must be savored and appreciated slowly...patiently. Beer drinkers need not apply.


 
  
 As a fellow wine aficionado I get where you're coming from, and completely agree! The HD800 is the pinot noir of the headphone world, no doubt.
  
 Although I do also enjoy a really good czech beer every now and then.


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> I had the Vanquish with the AD and now the 800. Again I not a huge proponent of sonic improvements with cables, but I was very impressed with what I heard with both of those hp's over the stock cable. It's a very very good cable and well worth the cost IMO.
> 
> Oh, for me the hd800 is like an special glass of red wine...pinot noir. There is so much complexity and flavor that must be savored and appreciated slowly...patiently. Beer drinkers need not apply.


Thanks for your views on the Va squish cables as well as your words on the HD800. I am tempted to save up for a pair of HD800, and your opinion on those cans are convincing me. Thanks .


----------



## MattTCG

reddog said:


> Thanks for your views on the Va squish cables as well as your words on the HD800. I am tempted to save up for a pair of HD800, and your opinion on those cans are convincing me. Thanks .


 
  
 I was put off of the hd800 for a couple of years by the nay sayers. Now, I have found so many of the things I've been looking for this whole time in this hp.


----------



## troymadison

All i can say so far is HD800 > HD580/HD650


----------



## preproman

matttcg said:


> I had the Vanquish with the AD and now the 800. Again I not a huge proponent of sonic improvements with cables, but I was very impressed with what I heard with both of those hp's over the stock cable. It's a very very good cable and well worth the cost IMO.
> 
> Oh, for me the hd800 is like an special glass of red wine...pinot noir. There is so much complexity and flavor that must be savored and appreciated slowly...patiently. Beer drinkers need not apply.


 
  


twoears said:


> As a fellow wine aficionado I get where you're coming from, and completely agree! The HD800 is the pinot noir of the headphone world, no doubt.
> 
> Although I do also enjoy a really good czech beer every now and then.


 
  
  
 If the HD800 is the Pinot Noir of the Headphone world - the HE-6 has to be the Old Vine Zen..  I like my wine Big and Bold..


----------



## TwoEars

preproman said:


> If the HD800 is the Pinot Noir of the Headphone world - the HE-6 has to be the Old Vine Zen..  I like my wine Big and Bold..


 
  
 Ever tried a good quality argentinian merlot? Hard to find as most imported stuff from Argentina is crap, but if you ever find one... they are the real deal. And the Argentina's are proud of them too! Meaty red pampas steak and Argentinan merlot.... hard to beat, very hard to beat.
  
 But to be fair the HD800 could also be a Italian amarone wine, as the HD800 can be meaty AND complex when called for. Just like a good italian amarone. It's not a cheap wine, but it's very, very good. Everyone should try it at least once.


----------



## Canadian411

preproman said:


> If the HD800 is the Pinot Noir of the Headphone world - the HE-6 has to be the Old Vine Zen..  I like my wine Big and Bold..


 
  
 I really like HE6, so far I say as good as HD800, but I know HE6 can be better with more powerful amp.
 I was afraid of the HE6 weight but it's actually manageable, unlike Audeze angled pads which give me horrible frontal pressure due to uneven pressure, HE6 with flat pad design is lot more comfortable.
  
 Not really sure what is the purpose of the angle pads on Audeze when HE6 with flat pads have better wider/deeper soundstage.
  
 One thing I don't like about Hifiman is the quality, everything looks so cheap compare to similar priced product.


----------



## TwoEars

> One thing I don't like about Hifiman is the quality, everything looks so cheap compare to similar priced product.


 
  
 Yupp, I liked the sound of my HE-500. Sold it d-t lack of comfort, quality and soundstage compared to HD800. Had high hopes for the HE-560 but it lacks the "meatiness" that made the HE-500 so attractive in the first place.
  
 BTW - isn't it time for Sennheiser to introduce a new flagship headphone already? The HD800 was introduced in 2009, that's 5 years ago now. Surely they must be up to something? Not that I don't like my HD800 you know...


----------



## Canadian411

twoears said:


> Yupp, I liked the sound of my HE-500. Sold it d-t lack of comfort, quality and soundstage compared to HD800. Had high hopes for the HE-560 but it lacks the "meatiness" that made the HE-500 so attractive in the first place.
> 
> BTW - isn't it time for Sennheiser to introduce a new flagship headphone already? The HD800 was introduced in 2009, that's 5 years ago now. Surely they must be up to something? Not that I don't like my HD800 you know...


 
  
 I read somewhere that Senn is working on the new flagship or "HD800 successor", that will be amazing !. I will line up depend on the price.
 Hope they keep the same price.   and they should really discontinue HD700, not doing good IMO.


----------



## TwoEars

canadian411 said:


> I read somewhere that Senn is working on the new flagship or "HD800 successor", that will be amazing !. I will line up depend on the price.
> Hope they keep the same price.   and they should really discontinue HD700, not doing good IMO.


 
  
 I wouldn't be surprised if a HD800 successor comes in at $1995-2495, the LCD-3 has set the bar in this respect.
  
 The HD700 is a strange animal, in tonality it's more like the HD650 than the HD600/800. But overall I'm not really sure if it's that much better than the HD600/650, or if it's worth holding back and save a couple of hundred bucks compared to the HD800. The HD800 is in my mind superior to the HD700 unless you have some very poor recordings. And then I'm also not a huge fan of the looks of the HD700, the HD600/650 look classy in an old school kind of way. The HD800 is space age.. and the HD700 looks like it could cost $200-300 bucks or so - certainly not $800. I think the HD700 would have been recieved differently if it retailed at $450 and was meant to eventually replace the HD600/650. Overall the HD700 is not a bad headphone, just in a weird place in the market. Of course - from my point of view I'd be more than happy if they'd kept the HD600/650 around for another 20 years with minute adjustments here and there.. they are still all time greats in my book. Just like the B&W 801... all time classics. You could say the HD600/650 are the kalashnikov's of the headphone world, and if it works why change it?


----------



## SilverEars

Hi guys, I gave the HD800 lots more time and I realized that it does indeed put out lots of resolution.  I got my NT6 back from refit so I could not directly compare, but now that I have it back, it doesn't compare to HD800.  HD800 is just super detailed.  Also, what I recently realized is that heavily compressed files(loudness wars?) are very harsh sounding.  Given that HD800 plays the better masted files that are uncompressed to the minute details, I would have to agree with you all that it's unforgiving of certain genre and recordings.  I also realized why my other headphone doesn't sound so harsh with compressed files, it's because the treble is rolled off.  Anyway, HD800 is indeed a very accurate phone and it's my cup of tea.  I like hyper details.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  There was nothing wrong with my DAC or Amp after all, it's was the compressed recordings the whole time, that was giving HD800 a bad rap.  Apologies if I've offended your favorite phone, I should have researched more of what was going on before I made such hasty conclusion on it.
  




  
 Here are comparisons of compressed and uncompressed:
  
 Uncompressed and sound very good.


  
  
 Compressed pop/electronica music:
  
 yup, I was surprised with this one because lots of audiophiles likes RAM.


----------



## koiloco

^
 Amen!  You've seen the light.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Now just save up for better source, DAC/Amp and you will be blown away even more.  With HD800, IMO, it will be a long great journey.
  
 On a side note, like you, I am now a Shure 846 owner and enjoying it tremendously.


----------



## 62ohm

Hi guys, I'm currently considering these 3 DACs, which one do you guys think would be best for HD800?
  
 NAD D1050
 Arcam irDAC
 Musical Fidelity M1 DAC
  
  
 The NAD is currently on top of my list as not only that it's the cheapest of the three, but it also comes with balanced out and (I know this shouldn't be a point of reference) CS4398. Any opinion about them would be greatly appreciated


----------



## kothganesh

> Originally Posted by *SilverEars* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


 


> Hi guys, I gave the HD800 lots more time and I realized that it does indeed put out lots of resolution.  I got my NT6 back from refit so I could not directly compare, but now that I have it back, it doesn't compare to HD800.  HD800 is just super detailed.  Also, what I recently realized is that heavily compressed files(loudness wars?) are very harsh sounding.  Given that HD800 plays the better masted files that are uncompressed to the minute details, I would have to agree with you all that it's unforgiving of certain genre and recordings.  I also realized why my other headphone doesn't sound so harsh with compressed files, it's because the treble is rolled off.  Anyway, HD800 is indeed a very accurate phone and it's my cup of tea.  I like hyper details.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Awesome. Now go get yourself a nice amp like the Crack with Speedball, replace one or two resistors with choke(s) and just enjoy yourself.


----------



## preproman

62ohm said:


> Hi guys, I'm currently considering these 3 DACs, which one do you guys think would be best for HD800?
> 
> NAD D1050
> Arcam irDAC
> ...


 
  
 What's your DAC budget?


----------



## 62ohm

preproman said:


> 62ohm said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys, I'm currently considering these 3 DACs, which one do you guys think would be best for HD800?
> ...


 
  
 $1,000 NZD, maybe about $800 USD max.


----------



## preproman

Might want to add this one to your list.
  
 https://emotiva.com/products/electronics/stealth-dc-1


----------



## 62ohm

preproman said:


> Might want to add this one to your list.
> 
> https://emotiva.com/products/electronics/stealth-dc-1


 
  
 Sadly there seem to be no Emotiva retailer here in NZ. With these prices, which one do you think is the better deal? (added Benchmark DAC1 to the list)
  
 NAD D1050 - $800
 Arcam irDAC - $900
 Musical Fidelity M1 DAC - $1,000
 Benchmark DAC1 USB - $900


----------



## preproman

How about the X-Saber?
  
 http://matrix-digi.com/en/products/49/index.html


----------



## 62ohm

preproman said:


> How about the X-Saber?
> 
> http://matrix-digi.com/en/products/49/index.html


 
  
 Also couldn't find any local retailer for it, and to import one personally I would have to pay 15% tax for it, summing the total price to over $1,500


----------



## Sorrodje

silverears said:


> Uncompressed and sound very good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Compression level and Dynamic Range does not cover the whole problem. R.A.M is heavily compressed but still remains fully enjoyable even with the HD800  . the recording stays good In my opinion. Not the best I heard but not bad.  For example i can listen to RAM or lately the Jay-Z/linkin Park EP "collision course" ( heavily compressed with average recording IMO)  although I really can't listen to some late 80s pop like Sade for example.
  
 What all HD800 owners say is that HD800 is revealing and could be very unforgiving. that's the truth but with some gear , the HD800 can keep all its resulution capabilities AND become a bit more forgiving. IMO the HD800 combines three caracteristics that produce harshness : its fast , treble happy & impactful. On inappropriate gear ,that produces harshness and pain weeks after weeks. the Better gear provides smoothness AND refinement  AND a best reproduction of dynamics and detail. Then the HD800 keeps its main strengths , keeps its analytical nature ( but it's definitely not bright as Beyers or Grados can be) but not Harsh anymore.  Then the HD800 is still revealing but much less unforgiving and perfect recordings ( ACT Jazz label for example) still sound sublime but average recordings become more enjoyable.
  
 You can trust me or not. That's my experience. I had a HEGEL HD10 DAC . it's a very good dac but after a month i was afraid to listen to my music and I could only bear some very well recorded Jazz or Classical. however the HD10 is definitely not a bright DAC. it's perfectly neutral but it hits hard and the HD800 sound painfully harsh with this DAC.  I really thought to sold the HD800 and I was desesperate. A friend proposed me to trade it's Rega DAC against my Hegel and the final result was by far better despite the HEGEL is In my opinion a better dac.
  
 With my current system, I can listen to everything I like with my HD800 without any fear of having to change tracks when quality is worse. I don't need anymore other headphones for my personal use. Obviously my favourite music is not 80s pop or Punk/Rock . But my last.fm profile shows I listen to a wide range of music.


----------



## Zoom25

62ohm, ask for a used Emotiva Mini-X from Emotiva directly. It goes for $400 USD. Even with shipping, customs, taxes and import fees it will easily fit your budget. It's solid in features and performance.


----------



## Canadian411

zoom25 said:


> 62ohm, ask for a used Emotiva Mini-X from Emotiva directly. It goes for $400 USD. Even with shipping, customs, taxes and import fees it will easily fit your budget. It's solid in features and performance.



 


brand new emotiva Mini-x $219 USD ?


----------



## Zoom25

canadian411 said:


> zoom25 said:
> 
> 
> > 62ohm, ask for a used Emotiva Mini-X from Emotiva directly. It goes for $400 USD. Even with shipping, customs, taxes and import fees it will easily fit your budget. It's solid in features and performance.
> ...


 
 Correction: Emotiva DC-1*


----------



## 62ohm

Wow it seems that the DC-1 employs the AD1955, intriguing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How does it compare to the other candidates?
  
 NAD D1050 - $800
 Benchmark DAC1 USB - $900
 Arcam irDAC - $900
 Musical Fidelity M1 DAC - $1,000
 Emotiva Stealth DC-1 - $750 (estimated)
  
  
 PS: I'm looking for a DAC that focuses on detail retrieval & add some aggressiveness system, not a laid-back DAC. Which one of these that fits the criteria?


----------



## Maxvla

Matrix Mini-I Pro does those things for me. Aggressive and detail oriented.


----------



## SilverEars

sorrodje said:


> Compression level and Dynamic Range does not cover the whole problem. R.A.M is heavily compressed but still remains fully enjoyable even with the HD800  . the recording stays good In my opinion. Not the best I heard but not bad.  For example i can listen to RAM or lately the Jay-Z/linkin Park EP "collision course" ( heavily compressed with average recording IMO)  although I really can't listen to some late 80s pop like Sade for example.
> 
> What all HD800 owners say is that HD800 is revealing and could be very unforgiving. that's the truth but with some gear , the HD800 can keep all its resulution capabilities AND become a bit more forgiving. IMO the HD800 combines three caracteristics that produce harshness : its fast , treble happy & impactful. On inappropriate gear ,that produces harshness and pain weeks after weeks. the Better gear provides smoothness AND refinement  AND a best reproduction of dynamics and detail. Then the HD800 keeps its main strengths , keeps its analytical nature ( but it's definitely not bright as Beyers or Grados can be) but not Harsh anymore.  Then the HD800 is still revealing but much less unforgiving and perfect recordings ( ACT Jazz label for example) still sound sublime but average recordings become more enjoyable.
> 
> ...


 
 I don't want it to be forgiving if it's taking out it's resoluting abilities.  I want it to keep it's integregity and be hyper revealing.  My nirvana is the most resloving detailed nothing missing headphones. I want to hear every damn thing!!!


----------



## kothganesh

I am pairing my Crack with the Schiit Bifrost Uber with the HD800. I wince at certain recordings but for the most part, my CDs ripped into lossless sound fantastic. Listening to Dire Straits "On Every Street" which is just an outstanding CD.


----------



## Zoom25

The DC-1 is neutral but doesn't sound laid back either. Finding it hard to describe actually. The DC-1 can hang with the big boys.


----------



## pearljam50000

How good is the amp in the DC-1?


----------



## lin0003

A relative bought a cheap CS4398 DAC/Amp from China which costs about $60 and I tried it with the HD800 and I was quite shocked at the sound quality this cheap thing puts out, the most bang for your buck I have ever heard. 
  

  
 Very clear mids, tight but with good bass impact and quite a clean treble. Soundstage, imaging and separation sounds awesome, this is amazing! This honestly sounds like something in the $300 price range. Here is where my relative got it from, if you guys are interested. 
  
 http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1.w137644-161437795.40.hFbSrt&id=16024002813


----------



## 62ohm

maxvla said:


> Matrix Mini-I Pro does those things for me. Aggressive and detail oriented.


 
  
 I read in your review that the Mini-I Pro sounds a bit 'harsh', while the X-Sabre is much smoother. I'd like to add some aggressiveness, but without harshness if that makes sense.


----------



## whirlwind

kothganesh said:


> I am pairing my Crack with the Schiit Bifrost Uber with the HD800. I wince at certain recordings but for the most part, my CDs ripped into lossless sound fantastic. Listening to Dire Straits "On Every Street" which is just an outstanding CD.


 
 +1....incredible cd
  
 I should get my new dac today after work....this is one of the recording that I will be listening too.....along with some Pink Floyd.


----------



## MattTCG

kothganesh said:


> I am pairing my Crack with the Schiit Bifrost Uber with the HD800. I wince at certain recordings but for the most part, my CDs ripped into lossless sound fantastic. Listening to Dire Straits "On Every Street" which is just an outstanding CD.


 
  
 There is a new "Japanese" release of Brothers in Arms that sounds fantastic.


----------



## navigavi

lin0003 said:


> A relative bought a cheap CS4398 DAC/Amp from China which costs about $60 and I tried it with the HD800 and I was quite shocked at the sound quality this cheap thing puts out, the most bang for your buck I have ever heard.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice v200. What dac do you use it with? And what do you think of it with the HD800?


----------



## jrprana

62ohm said:


> I'd like to add some aggressiveness, but without harshness if that makes sense.




You should consider Schiit Gungnir.


----------



## 62ohm

jrprana said:


> 62ohm said:
> 
> 
> > I'd like to add some aggressiveness, but without harshness if that makes sense.
> ...


 
  
 Out of my budget mate, the Gungnir costs $1,250 NZD here ($1,400 with USB).


----------



## kothganesh

whirlwind said:


> +1....incredible cd
> 
> I should get my new dac today after work....this is one of the recording that I will be listening too.....along with some Pink Floyd.


 
 Classic rock man ! The only way to go ...ok ok one of several ways to go (I do not want Head-fiers attacking me from all sides)


----------



## kothganesh

matttcg said:


> There is a new "Japanese" release of Brothers in Arms that sounds fantastic.


 
 Matt, is this in CD or can we get online downloads?


----------



## headfirocks

How does the HD800 pair with the Chord Hugo DAC/amp?


----------



## H20Fidelity

So I stole this from Instagram and thought you HD800 fans would like to see.

 Probably one of the nicer HD800 custom jobs I've seen.





 Enjoy


----------



## James-uk

I've recently started using spotify. For those that are opposed to lossy formats and streaming I have found a good use for it for you. I've always found my cd Copy of brothers in arms to be bass light and just a bit thin. today I discovered a 20th anniversary edition next to the 'digitally remastered ' version and it's been mastered much better . I can now really enjoy this album on the hd800s for the first time. I'm now going to search for other albums I own and don't enjoy the mastering of to see if there are better masters available. It's ALL about the mastering!


----------



## lovethatsound

headfirocks said:


> How does the HD800 pair with the Chord Hugo DAC/amp?


They pair quite well, but I use the Hugo as a dac into my hdvd800 amp.I also use senns balance cable.Like this it sounds totally amazing.The Hugo with just the hd800s sounds great.


----------



## lin0003

navigavi said:


> Nice v200. What dac do you use it with? And what do you think of it with the HD800?


They pair very well, its takes a slight edge off the treble. I'm using it with the M-DAC.


----------



## whirlwind

My new dac has arrived.


----------



## jackskelly

twoears said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if a HD800 successor comes in at $1995-2495, the LCD-3 has set the bar in this respect.
> 
> The HD700 is a strange animal, in tonality it's more like the HD650 than the HD600/800. But overall I'm not really sure if it's that much better than the HD600/650, or if it's worth holding back and save a couple of hundred bucks compared to the HD800. The HD800 is in my mind superior to the HD700 unless you have some very poor recordings. And then I'm also not a huge fan of the looks of the HD700, the HD600/650 look classy in an old school kind of way. The HD800 is space age.. and the HD700 looks like it could cost $200-300 bucks or so - certainly not $800. I think the HD700 would have been recieved differently if it retailed at $450 and was meant to eventually replace the HD600/650. Overall the HD700 is not a bad headphone, just in a weird place in the market. Of course - from my point of view I'd be more than happy if they'd kept the HD600/650 around for another 20 years with minute adjustments here and there.. they are still all time greats in my book. Just like the B&W 801... all time classics. You could say the HD600/650 are the kalashnikov's of the headphone world, and if it works why change it?


 
  
 I wonder how many years away the successor to the HD 800 is? Hopefully within 3-5 years. Will they go for a revision, an "HD 850" or a new model, an "HD 900?" Personally I hope they come out with another electrostatic headphone sometime in the future.


----------



## 62ohm

whirlwind said:


> My new dac has arrived.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
  
 Gratz mate! I'm looking for a DAC myself, and weirdly as days go by I'm getting more and more attracted to the Benchmark DAC1 and Musical Fidelity M1 DAC.


----------



## MattTCG

whirlwind said:


> My new dac has arrived.


 
 Very nice Sir!! I'll be looking forward to getting your thoughts on it.


----------



## MacedonianHero

whirlwind said:


> My new dac has arrived.


 
  
 Looks great!


----------



## Mortalcoil

whirlwind said:


> My new dac has arrived.


 
  
  
 Congrats whirlwind. 
  
 PS Audio's website doesn't do it justice.  Much sleeker and substantial looking piece of gear.


----------



## kothganesh

whirlwind said:


> My new dac has arrived.


 
 Oh very nice. Is this like the "younger brother" to the PWD II? The black looks better than the silver. Now where is my wallet?


----------



## perplekks45

Slight change of plans after I spent some quality time in a local brick and mortar store:
  
 A new dac was mentioned, slightly over budget but supposed to be absolutely amazing for the HD800 (and in general): the T+A DAC-8. Could get it as a loaner for a bit to judge for myself if that's what I want/need.
  
 Then it all changed again when the pretty head-fi oriented sales guy and me spoke about the McIntosh MHA-100. He had already had the chance to listen to it and said he was blown away by it. So they will order one for me which I can then either listen to in store or maybe even get as a loaner for 1 or 2 weeks.
  
 My poor wallet...
  
 Back on topic:
  
 That is a beautiful piece of gear! Congrats!


----------



## whirlwind

matttcg said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > My new dac has arrived.
> ...


 
 Thanks Matt, I am pretty stoked, early impressions are that the imaging and detail have went up another notch....if that is at all possible with the HD800
  


macedonianhero said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > My new dac has arrived.
> ...


 
 Thanks Peter, and thank you for all of your help.
  


mortalcoil said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > My new dac has arrived.
> ...


 
 Thank you, yea....this thing is pretty dang heavy....weighing in at around 14 pounds!
 it feels of great quality
  


kothganesh said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > My new dac has arrived.
> ...


 
 Thank you, and yea, I guess you could say it is its younger brother, or maybe sister, as the PWD II cost over twice as much.


----------



## gsr108

Just wanted to put this out there: but for those of you (like me) who find the HD800's too bright, even with the Anax 2.0 mod, can try to put a doggie pad (from mr speakers) behind the dust covers.  It's really tamed the sibilance issues I had (in my current setup - HT claro - coax - NAD M51 - dual CMA800R).  I'm really digging the sound now - it's tied or possibly even surpassed my previous favorite, the HE-6's (on a SuSy Dynahi).


----------



## MattTCG

Hmm...very interesting. Fortunately for me the 800 is not bright.


----------



## whirlwind

I know before I bought the headphone, I heard many say that it was just too bright.....I do not at all find that to be the case.


----------



## dashelj

I just had the opportunity to listen to some HD800.  I don't have any experience with open back headphones, having never owned any.  I have tested out the AKG-702 and 712 but it was in a noisy music store so it probably didn't let me hear the details and soundstage very well.  Even so the ethereal nature of the sound was almost magical.
  
 But WOW, the HD800 is probably the most amazing thing I have put on my head.  It was I pulled down down a background like in a cartoon and it was a jazz ensemble.  The feeling of airiness and detail and expanse is something I have never experienced before.  Even the ergonomics of the headphones seemed to help.  The cups were not tight around my ear (no part of my ear felt like the headphone was touched by it) and so it just felt like I was adding this layer of sound.  
  
 Of course the HD800's are some of the pricier headphones out there.  1500 bucks in Canada.  I also tried the HD600 and HD650.  Both lacked the same level of detail and airiness and the phones themselves felt more enclosing physically.  To me the AKG-702/712 physically felt more like the HD800 although sonically I am sure they were lacking SQ wise.  All the Senns were plugged into a  TEAC UD-H01 which sounded pretty good for a 250 dollar amp.  Although I have found personally I am less sensitive to amp/DAC sounds once you get ones that are not garbage.
  
 I have read that that HD800 has a great soundstage - is it abnormally great?  Are there any other phones that come close to the sound (but not the price)?
  
 Anyways at least now I have something to strive for.


----------



## lin0003

The sound is pretty unique and no, nothing I have heard except maybe the 009 cones close to the sound quality and signature. The HE-6 is a little bit similar but is incredibly hard to drive and IMO inferior to the HD800.


----------



## koiloco

lin0003 said:


> The sound is pretty unique and no, nothing I have heard except maybe the 009 cones close to the sound quality and signature. The HE-6 is a little bit similar but is incredibly hard to drive and IMO inferior to the HD800.


 

 +1  ...except for the HE-6 being inferior to HD800.


----------



## koiloco

gsr108 said:


> Just wanted to put this out there: but for those of you (like me) who find the HD800's too bright, even with the Anax 2.0 mod, can try to put a doggie pad (from mr speakers) behind the dust covers.  It's really tamed the sibilance issues I had (in my current setup - HT claro - coax - NAD M51 - dual CMA800R).  I'm really digging the sound now - it's tied or possibly even surpassed my previous favorite, the HE-6's (on a SuSy Dynahi).


 

 HD800 doesn't have sibilance issues.  Some of us are just more sensitive to the high frequencies while others are not.  I personally don't find the HD800 to be too bright at all.  Source and up stream components are often major factors/causes since the HD800 is pretty transparent.


----------



## gsr108

koiloco said:


> HD800 doesn't have sibilance issues.  Some of us are just more sensitive to the high frequencies while others are not.  I personally don't find the HD800 to be too bright at all.  Source and up stream components are often major factors/causes since the HD800 is pretty transparent.


 

 I couldn't agree more.  When I had the EF-6 I never had any issues with the highs on the HD800.  After I changed to the CMA800R, that's when listening to the HD800's became painful to me.  The problem with the EF-6 was that the sound stage seemed collapsed to me. I just wanted people to know of another very easy and, more importantly, very easily removed mod for the HD800's if they had any issues with the highs. Of course YMMV, etc.


----------



## preproman

koiloco said:


> +1  ...except for the HE-6 being inferior to HD800.


 
  
  
 +1


----------



## 62ohm

I do find the HD800 to be a bit bright, albeit not harsh. Even with the extremely rolled-off treble WA3 at times I still find the treble to be bothersome, but fortunately the HDVA600 does the trick for me in taming the treble of the HD800.
  
 The problem is I now find it going too far the other way around. There's no 'attack' or 'aggression', I hope getting an aggressive DAC would fix this, otherwise I'd have to get the BHA-1 as well to add some listening option.


----------



## WilCox

62ohm said:


> The problem is I now find it going too far the other way around. There's no 'attack' or 'aggression', I hope getting an aggressive DAC would fix this, otherwise I'd have to get the BHA-1 as well to add some listening option.




I think the BHA-1 plays well with the HD 800.


----------



## SilverEars

Have you guys tried tone test on your headphones to see if there is imbalance as the sweep gets to treble frequencies?  I notice with mine.  The loudness will go back and forth from left and right at the high frequencies.  This means my headphones isn't perfectly balanced.  I guess high frequencies are the hardest to balance.


----------



## Canadian411

koiloco said:


> +1  ...except for the HE-6 being inferior to HD800.




+2, musically I enjoy a lot with he6. Its a great headphone IMO.

But I still like hd800.


----------



## Maxvla

Repost from GS-X thread

--

The view over my right arm cushion (with added lighting to get a decent shot):


----------



## 62ohm

Wow that HeadAmp looks very slick. I hope one day I'd get there


----------



## kothganesh

maxvla said:


> Repost from GS-X thread
> 
> --
> 
> The view over my right arm cushion (with added lighting to get a decent shot):


 
 Max, how is the GS-X/HD 800 pairing. I've not seen too many posts on this. Thanks.


----------



## LugBug1

62ohm said:


> Sadly there seem to be no Emotiva retailer here in NZ. With these prices, which one do you think is the better deal? (added Benchmark DAC1 to the list)
> 
> NAD D1050 - $800
> Arcam irDAC - $900
> ...


 
 Just catching up on posts here (been on hols 
  
 I would seriously stay clear of the MF as it is very overpriced. A V-dac II and upgraded psu will get you the same quality - which IS great quality for the price.
  
 I'm also torn between the NAD and new Arcam... The NAD has the added hp amplifier and I'm keep reading good reports of it. I have two Arcam dacs, the old classic Black box and the Rdac. Both are very impressive for the price. Both have a meaty bottom end and natural tone, with the Rdac winning with it's finesse and speed. (but there is 20 years between them) From what I've read the irDac is cleaner sounding with no bass hump but better extension. 
  
 All NAD products IME are high end on a budget. That's what they are famous for. Corners are cut on externals but the insides are very well made. They do have a house sound - slightly warm and natural sounding- no added light. Perfect for the HD800?


----------



## 62ohm

Not sure about the NAD, but I've just auditioned the Arcam irDAC and the MF M1DAC today, and IMO the irDAC wins (by a slight margin). The M1DAC does have a more forward presentation, but it sounds a bit unbalanced IMO. The bass sounds weaker and at the same time, not as controlled compared to the Arcam. The mids of the Arcam sounds thicker, which to me gives it a more 'fun' and enjoyable character. The highs of the Arcam, while not as forward as the M1DAC, sounds much cleaner to me. The M1DAC's treble sounds a bit harsher sometimes. Regarding soundstage, while the M1DAC does have a more '3-dimensional presentation', the Arcam's soundstaging sounds more natural to me.
  
 While the M1DAC does come with balanced outs, to be honest I can't distinguish any difference balanced input makes on an amp (was using an HDVA600, with CH800S balanced cable). The sound gets louder with balanced input, but that's about it. When I match the volume, I can't hear any difference between XLR-in and RCA-in at all. So in the end, I think I'd prefer the Arcam irDAC to the M1DAC. But there's still the Benchmark DAC1-USB to be auditioned, and the NAD D1050, so I'm not rushing into any decision.
  
  
 PS: The Arcam irDAC can be used as a (decent?) USB-COAX converter, which I guess could come in handy if I decide to upgrade my DAC in the future.


----------



## LugBug1

Nice impressions ^^^ keep us informed, especially if you get to audition the 1030 with HD800. I want to know if the amp section is any good as well as the dac.


----------



## nephilim32

rdr. seraphim said:


> For me, I treat cables as another component in the reproduction chain, along with isolation, and dampening (in the case of tubed amplification), and balanced power, amongst others, in the same camp.
> 
> I agree, the stock cable really is pretty decent. If you needed to replace the stock cable for any reason, I'd check out some alternate options. Not because mine broke or were worn out, but just because I wanted to try something else, I'm really enjoying the HD800's better with Alex's WyWire Red headphone cables. The WyWire Red headphone cable contributes to my overall music kit with much improved sound-staging, midrange body, and pure, extended bass. All traces of upper treble glare and stridency were resolved with the Red cable.




That sounds awesome and a nice helpful testimony given on your part. The cable replacement is the only thing left I have to do in my sound chain, but its for the purposes as you said: difference. 
I'm looking at maybe getting a toxic cable (copper venom.) that might add some difference.


----------



## nephilim32

whirlwind said:


> +1....incredible cd
> 
> I should get my new dac today after work....this is one of the recording that I will be listening too.....along with some Pink Floyd.




Excelleb





whirlwind said:


> My new dac has arrived.




Excellent. Just excellent. Make sure you run the ALIEN 3 soundtrack through that. Happy listening.


----------



## nephilim32

nephilim32 said:


> Excelleb
> Excellent. Just excellent. Make sure you run the ALIEN 3 soundtrack through that. Happy listening.







matttcg said:


> There is a new "Japanese" release of Brothers in Arms that sounds fantastic.




You know what the thing is about that dire straits album is? It's a phenomenal recording. Bob Ludwig's mastering is sublime.


----------



## nephilim32

canadian411 said:


> Yape I don't think the hd800 stock cable is bad. I still use the stock cable but probably will get shorten or buy 4 ft balanced cable from plussound.
> 
> One thing I noticed is the grado cables.
> I had sr80i and replaced with diy my own mogami quad cable and noticed the difference.
> ...




All I can say is that the Grado extension cable is excellent. You lose no sound and are free from distortion all together. It's a great buy and certainly the best for the cash. 35$ only!

Also. I'd love to know if the the stock cable on the 800 shortened With XLR will make a difference. Love to hear your findings. It will certainly add more GAIN that's for sure. Happy listening.


----------



## nephilim32

bigfatpaulie said:


> Amen to that!!  :bigsmile_face:




If you really find the right cable to pair with your sound chain with regards to the HD 800's being the generals of your rig, you may at the very most get a 5% increase in sound quality. That's it. And it would cost you a g-note.


----------



## SilverEars

Is the Hugo good enough for yall? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Got one on me now.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

silverears said:


> Is the Hugo good enough for yall?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 jude of head-fi.org speaks highly of the Hugo Chord's ability to drive the HD800.


----------



## skeptic

Congrats on the new source Se! Please give us a brief compare and contrast between the Hugo and your odac when time permits. From the FS forum, it also looks like you have a gamma 2 on hand. I'm curious how you'd rank that in there as well - since I know there are some in the dac review threads who actually place the AMB dac on top out of those three.


----------



## SilverEars

I haven't started doing A/B yet, but I hear more resolution with the Hugo.  I sounds more laid back than the ODAC, but at the same time it has much thinner treble making it sound more resolving.  Could be placebo, but I hear more definitions. The horn sound is more defined it seems.  Kind of Blue, is excellet to test definitions.   Definitions make the sound more accurate as if you lose it, it will not sound realistic.
  
 One example is my CIEM cannot define like the HD800 so certain sounds are just not as accurate because of the lack out definition that the CIEM is capable of.  I am ware of limitations of iems even without mention of sound stage.
  
 Anyway, our impressions change from day to day, and I will do more direct comparisons, so I'll let you all know how it turns out.


----------



## koiloco

^ gratz and sorry for your wallet.


----------



## drez

silverears said:


> I haven't started doing A/B yet, but I hear more resolution with the Hugo.  I sounds more laid back than the ODAC, but at the same time it has much thinner treble making it sound more resolving.  Could be placebo, but I hear more definitions. The horn sound is more defined it seems.  Kind of Blue, is excellet to test definitions.   Definitions make the sound more accurate as if you lose it, it will not sound realistic.
> 
> One example is my CIEM cannot define like the HD800 so certain sounds are just not as accurate because of the lack out definition that the CIEM is capable of.  I am ware of limitations of iems even without mention of sound stage.
> 
> Anyway, our impressions change from day to day, and I will do more direct comparisons, so I'll let you all know how it turns out.




I find that better DAC/source can help the hd800 treble by reducing splashyness or smear. With my pair and associated equipment, I still need Anax mod 2.0 but this would probably harm resale if adhesive residue is left. Still not 100% happy with the treble (definition/extension) from my system though, but I don't think the headphones are the limiting factor.


----------



## SilverEars

drez said:


> I find that better DAC/source can help the hd800 treble by reducing splashyness or smear. With my pair and associated equipment, I still need Anax mod 2.0 but this would probably harm resale if adhesive residue is left. Still not 100% happy with the treble from my system though, but I don't think the headphones are the limiting factor.


 
 You can look for less treble offensive source, but I'm feel that it's characteristic is the treble region bump which pushes lots of details of course in the dominating tonality in that region of the spectrum.  I really appreciate it's treble bump for the better mastering if you look at their compression, they are nowhere near clipping level compared to poor masters.  It just can't be subtle with compressed recordings because it's FR.  I just face it as it's characteristics.  Of course if you listen to tracks that are heavily compressed for a duration, your ears will adjust to them.  
  
 I will say this though, the details are defined will, and right now think Hugo better defines it.  I'm guessing because of combination of treble bump and low distortion.  I'm afraid the damping mod will help with compressed recordings, but at the same time the better recordings may suffer with less resolving as a result of the mod.


----------



## SilverEars

Let's look at a heavily compressed file vs not so heavily compressed(red section is clipping areas).  If you look at the heavily compressed file, all frequencies looks to be peak and some peaked to clipping or distortion.  If you look at the not so compressed on the voltage output(or loudness) varies quite a bit, and the harsh treble will not be push so much(not to the high level and output only rarely) like the compressed files.


----------



## drez

silverears said:


> You can look for less treble offensive source, but I'm feel that it's characteristic is the treble region bump which pushes lots of details of course in the dominating tonality in that region of the spectrum.  I really appreciate it's treble bump for the better mastering if you look at their compression, they are nowhere near clipping level compared to poor masters.  It just can't be subtle with compressed recordings because it's FR.  I just face it as it's characteristics.  Of course if you listen to tracks that are heavily compressed for a duration, your ears will adjust to them.
> 
> I will say this though, the details are defined will, and right now think Hugo better defines it.  I'm guessing because of combination of treble bump and low distortion.  I'm afraid the damping mod will help with compressed recordings, but at the same time the better recordings may suffer with less resolving as a result of the mod.




True, the Anax mod v2, as I noted earlier, improves treble linearity but reduces bass linearity. If I weren't superstitious about DSP I would use EQ, and might do this in the future when I have time to cut another Anax mod.


----------



## skeptic

I really wish anax had followed through on releasing a uniform commercial version of the mod, as was discussed elsewhere a year or so back. With various iterations and so many different materials being used by different listeners, it is hard to gage whether there is a target curve or curves that the mod should be aiming for. For example, mrspeakers doggy treats provide a consistent and successive series of steps to use in tuning ADs that most people appear to prefer to stock, at least using a dot or two on the baffle to smooth treble. Mrspeakers now ships new units with dots in place. I wonder if we wouldn't find the same sort of result if there was a cheap, consistent, mass produced hd800 tuning kit.


----------



## BobG55

>


 
 Hey SiverEars, About your avatar : is that Jean-Claude Van Damme trying to pass himself off as Xavier Cugat's grandson ?


----------



## SilverEars

bobg55 said:


> Hey SiverEars, About your avatar : is that Jean-Claude Van Damme trying to pass himself off as Xavier Cugat's grandson ?


 
 Yes, it is Jean-Claude my childhood movie hero.  I don't know who Xavier Cugat is, but I thought the picture of him holding the rat sized dog was quite amusing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Apologies if the imaging isn't pleasing to all eyes, I may put a "hot chick" as avatar to be more pleasing to the straight males on the forums, and which may offend the .001% female population here.  I was thinking Kate Upton showing bosoms, but I may get in trouble for that.


----------



## SilverEars

silverears said:


> Yes, it is Jean-Claude my childhood movie hero. * I don't know who Xavier Cugat is*, but I thought the picture of him holding the rat sized dog was quite amusing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ahhh, here we go.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  This must have inspired it.


----------



## BobG55

silverears said:


> silverears said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, it is Jean-Claude my childhood movie hero. * I don't know who Xavier Cugat is*, but I thought the picture of him holding the rat sized dog was quite amusing.
> ...


 
 LOL !  You found Xavier 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  You see SilverEars, it's just me showing my age hence my moniker "Old Groucho".  I'm not sure who Kate Upton is (my turn) so I'll have to look her up (mmmm…. that could be interpreted in different ways).  You're a good sport & that was pretty good for a laugh.


----------



## palmfish

I plugged my HD800's straight into my iPad this morning (via Grado 1/4" to 1/8" adapter) and thoroughly enjoyed some Nickel Creek streaming from Spotify at 320 Kbps. No external DAC or amplifier needed.


----------



## SilverEars

Don't let the ohmage fool you.  300ohms yes, but the sensitivity is 102dB/V, it's quite easy to drive since it's high impedance because the voltage will drop to the 800 even with lots of output impedance of the source.
  
 I think generally, people look at ohmage in the 100's and think wow it a big value. HE-6 is only 50ohms, and needs considerable current because it's not so sensitive.


----------



## MattTCG

palmfish said:


> I plugged my HD800's straight into my iPad this morning (via Grado 1/4" to 1/8" adapter) and thoroughly enjoyed some Nickel Creek streaming from Spotify at 320 Kbps. No external DAC or amplifier needed.


 
  
 I've been digging NC for several months. Have not had the pleasure of spinning them up with the 800s...yet.


----------



## kazsud

skeptic said:


> I really wish anax had followed through on releasing a uniform commercial version of the mod, as was discussed elsewhere a year or so back. With various iterations and so many different materials being used by different listeners, it is hard to gage whether there is a target curve or curves that the mod should be aiming for. For example, mrspeakers doggy treats provide a consistent and successive series of steps to use in tuning ADs that most people appear to prefer to stock, at least using a dot or two on the baffle to smooth treble. Mrspeakers now ships new units with dots in place. I wonder if we wouldn't find the same sort of result if there was a cheap, consistent, mass produced hd800 tuning kit.




Someone could do a 3d printed version that would hold whatever material. It could be 3d scanned and then design onto the 3d scan then 3d print. Ther


----------



## 62ohm

So I finally decided to go with the Benchmark DAC1-USB, all I have left to do is just to wait for the arrival of my Norne balanced cable and I will be one truly happy HD800 user


----------



## kothganesh

Holy Sennheiser! Listening to Rush -Tom Sawyer, The Big Money etc on the Crack+800. Huge soundstage with the deepest low end that I have yet heard with this combo. As an aside, I now have three tube amps/hybrids in my office just for the 800 - the Crack, the Lyr and the ZD.


----------



## pearljam50000

62ohm said:


> So I finally decided to go with the Benchmark DAC1-USB, all I have left to do is just to wait for the arrival of my Norne balanced cable and I will be one truly happy HD800 user



Congrats!
I'm considering getting a used Benchmark DAC1 and use it as a DAC/amp since i cant afford an aditional amp, could you please tell me how is the sound with the HD800 plugged in to the The DAC1?
Thanks.


----------



## obsidyen

I have a Chord Hugo, would that be enough for HD800? I don't like big headphone amps (no space in bedroom) so will just use that.


----------



## pearljam50000

palmfish said:


> I plugged my HD800's straight into my iPad this morning (via Grado 1/4" to 1/8" adapter) and thoroughly enjoyed some Nickel Creek streaming from Spotify at 320 Kbps. No external DAC or amplifier needed.



You are busting a huge myth ^_^


----------



## whirlwind

62ohm said:


> So I finally decided to go with the Benchmark DAC1-USB, all I have left to do is just to wait for the arrival of my Norne balanced cable and I will be one truly happy HD800 user


 
 Very nice....I have been tossing the idea around of going balanced.....just not sure yet.
  
 Anyway.....nice set-up


----------



## drez

pearljam50000 said:


> You are busting a huge myth ^_^




It sounds fine (detailed, etc) you just don't get the dynamic contrast.


----------



## 62ohm

pearljam50000 said:


> I'm considering getting a used Benchmark DAC1 and use it as a DAC/amp since i cant afford an aditional amp, could you please tell me how is the sound with the HD800 plugged in to the The DAC1?


 
  
 Honestly I don't think it's a bad pairing at all. I didn't do an extensive comparison but compared to the (SE-out) HDVA600, soundstage is cramped and quite upfront, makes the presentation of the HD800 a bit in-your-face like a Grado. The mids is a bit harsh and grainy, and even though its instrument separation is actually quite decent, because the soundstage is very small I find it hard to focus on specific instrument. Though keep in mind that it leans more towards the bright side. YMMV, but IMO for a dac/amp combo, especially for the price I got it for ($800 USD new - USB version), it's a good deal. 
  
 To put it in a context, if I need to travel out of town for an extended period of time and I want to bring small piece of gear with me, I'd happily bring only the DAC1 (and a laptop of course) to drive the HD800.
  
  
 edit: forgot to mention, the DAC1 does sound a bit dry and thin though.


----------



## frankrondaniel

obsidyen said:


> I have a Chord Hugo, would that be enough for HD800? I don't like big headphone amps (no space in bedroom) so will just use that.


 
  
 I'm finding that the Hugo drives the HD800's surprisingly well.  It sounds good!


----------



## frankrondaniel

kothganesh said:


> Holy Sennheiser! Listening to Rush -Tom Sawyer, The Big Money etc on the Crack+800. Huge soundstage with the deepest low end that I have yet heard with this combo. As an aside, I now have three tube amps/hybrids in my office just for the 800 - the Crack, the Lyr and the ZD.


 
  
 I don't have the same setup but I agree with you - just about everything on "Moving Pictures" sounds great with the HD800's, maybe with the exception of "Red Barchetta".
  
 I've had the Crack since Christmas (a gift) but haven't found the time to put it together yet.  I only seem to hear good things about it though.


----------



## whirlwind

I just bought : The Essential Stevie Ray Vaughan & Double Trouble 2cd set....that has been digitally remastered from the original material....I do not like all remasters....but this is just kick ***** good on the HD800.
  
 I highly recommend this if you are a fan of SRV


----------



## bigfatpaulie

whirlwind said:


> I just bought : The Essential Stevie Ray Vaughan & Double Trouble 2cd set....that has been digitally remastered from the original material....I do not like all remasters....but this is just kick ***** good on the HD800.
> 
> I highly recommend this if you are a fan of SRV


 
  
 I picked up the same set about a month ago!  It's great!


----------



## 62ohm

So far my favourite artists, artists that IMO makes the HD800 sound its absolute best are Diana Krall and Norah Jones. I just couldn't believe what I'm hearing when playing these 2 artists!


----------



## kkcc

62ohm said:


> So far my favourite artists, artists that IMO makes the HD800 sound its absolute best are Diana Krall and Norah Jones. I just couldn't believe what I'm hearing when playing these 2 artists!




I also enjoy Krall and Jones a lot with my HD800 from the wa22. 

However, the one album I really love on the HD800 like no others is Janis Ian's Breaking Silence. Wonderful vocal and impressive instrument timbre rendition by HD800 that my other headphones just can't match.


----------



## averageaudio

My HD 800s are finally here and both my wallet and ears are in shock. Its been a long and expensive journey. Time to enjoy some music.


----------



## kothganesh

averageaudio said:


> My HD 800s are finally here and both my wallet and ears are in shock. Its been a long and expensive journey. Time to enjoy some music.


 
 Good for you! What DAC/Amp do you plan to use?


----------



## averageaudio

kothganesh said:


> Good for you! What DAC/Amp do you plan to use?


 
 Well as of now it's going to be my stealth DC-1 and Objective 2 that I just built. Far from ideal, but I have immanent plans to build a BH crack. In the long term, who knows. However, the Questyle CMA800R has caught my eye.


----------



## kothganesh

averageaudio said:


> Well as of now it's going to be my stealth DC-1 and Objective 2 that I just built. Far from ideal, but I have immanent plans to build a BH crack. In the long term, who knows. However, the Questyle CMA800R has caught my eye.


 
 BH will work just great! Good luck.


----------



## koiloco

averageaudio said:


> My HD 800s are finally here and both my wallet and ears are in shock. Its been a long and expensive journey. Time to enjoy some music.


 

 Gratzzz.  I didn't know you got the Emo DAC.  It's a great DAC.  When your system is complete, we'll meet up for some good music.


----------



## MattTCG

Question/advice needed:
  
 I've sold my bifrost and now have enough money for either the HA-1 or a used NAD m51. Currently I have the Crack amp with the 800 and like the sound of it. 
  
 I curious about the HA-1 and also about going balanced with the 800. So should I upgrade the source with the NAD or go with HA-1 with the Sabre dac?


----------



## Currawong

I'd get the NAD personally, because the HA-1 is best if used just as a single unit, not just a DAC or just an amp. For those purposes a dedicated unit would be better.


----------



## punit

matttcg said:


> Question/advice needed:
> 
> I've sold my bifrost and now have enough money for either the HA-1 or a used NAD m51. Currently I have the Crack amp with the 800 and like the sound of it.
> 
> I curious about the HA-1 and also about going balanced with the 800. So should I upgrade the source with the NAD or go with HA-1 with the Sabre dac?


 

 I had the HD 800 + Crack + AGD NFB-7. Was a Great pairing.Very musical, with good bass. Recently sold the Crack to move up on the OTL ladder.


----------



## preproman

I'd go with the NAD as well, unless you'er looking for an all in one unit.


----------



## Sorrodje

I'd choose the NAD too. Read many good things about this DAC and I'm curious about it


----------



## pdrm360

I'd back to the Uberfrost since it has almost as same sound quality as the M51, IMO.


----------



## Mortalcoil

The NAD does get some stellar reviews overall.
  
 It would be my choice if I had the $$ right now.  If I had even more $$$$ I would be looking at the Berkley Alpha DAC (the new reference series) or perhaps the Mytek Manhattan.
  
 So yeah ....back to reality for a sec ....I would shoot for the NAD, seems like a good value.


----------



## SilverEars

Anedio D2 in da haaaaauuuuussss. Yeah!  Clean, very clean.


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm very much leaning towards the NAD option. I've read over and over how crucial the dac is for the overall performance of the 800. I'll likely pickup the NAD this week.


----------



## SilverEars

This is interesting, pop/electronic doesn't sound bad with the D2(not as bad as what I've been experiencing with other gears).  It gives it finer treble than what I expect of the HD800 output with compressed music.  My preconceived notions of 800 not doing well certain genre has been broken.  Yes, the better master will sound better, but with the D2 compressed recordings sound better than I thought they would.  I hear details that I expect even of compressed music and the treble is so horribly done being really thick and piercing, and it outputs it better than what I thought 800 should perform as people were saying garbage in, garbage out.  I'm liking the D2 with HD800.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Based on my experience running into two ES9018(non-mobile) based sources, 9018 is not so piercingly sharp sounding as I thought. My ODAC is 9023 possibly it's treble is not as fine, but bolder and piercing.
  
 D2 seems to make the HD800 output resolved sound even of the typically compressed genre such as electronic/pop.
  
 This all I wanted from the HD800 and I think the HD800 does that with the D2.


----------



## Failed Engineer

The D2 is an amazing, underrated DAC.  I love the HD800 from my D2/Headamp GS-1.  Precise, clean, yet cohesive and not sterile or have piercing treble.  Even better and truly end game pairing with the ECP L-2.
  
 Straight out of the D2 headphone out it's very attention grabbing but would get fatiguing on the treble after a couple of hours.  It's also a bit thin sounding from the headphone out.


----------



## SilverEars

failed engineer said:


> The D2 is an amazing, underrated DAC.  I love the HD800 from my D2/Headamp GS-1.  Precise, clean, yet cohesive and not sterile or have piercing treble.  Even better and truly end game pairing with the ECP L-2.
> 
> Straight out of the D2 headphone out it's very attention grabbing but would get fatiguing on the treble after a couple of hours.  It's also a bit thin sounding from the headphone out.


 
 I don't find it to be thin, but if you have have source that create a wider stage, you probably notice the difference.  The bass and mids sound very good out of it, but I think the treble can be improved.  There is a disconnect in the way the details are presented with the treble.  There is the really bold treble and upper mids, and it's lacking something between.  So, there is a bit of contrast between the treble where the hash treble is at and the upper mids.  More likely it's the recordings and headphones of course, but I thought the D2 is getting better at presenting details in the popular genre of music without sounding so bad.  After trying my custom iem which is sounding bright, and the HD800 with the D2, I guess the characteristics of the ES9018 is a bit of contrast from the sharp treble to the upper mids.  This is probably so with electronic/pop, and I have listen more to better recordings to get a better hold of the D2's characterisitcs.


----------



## koiloco

^ some tube goodness might fix that issue for you.


----------



## kothganesh

matttcg said:


> Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm very much leaning towards the NAD option. I've read over and over how crucial the dac is for the overall performance of the 800. I'll likely pickup the NAD this week.


 
 You sold the Uberfrost? What, in your opinion, did it lack (may I ask) ?


----------



## MattTCG

kothganesh said:


> You sold the Uberfrost? What, in your opinion, did it lack (may I ask) ?


 
  
 The uberfrost is a very good dac. But...I've heard the hd800 sound appreciably better on other dacs. I've been content with the bifrost for a long time, but I felt like if I could give the 800's a better source I'd be nearing the promised land.


----------



## Rossliew

matttcg said:


> The uberfrost is a very good dac. But...I've heard the hd800 sound appreciably better on other dacs. I've been content with the bifrost for a long time, but I felt like if I could give the 800's a better source I'd be nearing the promised land.


 
 McIntosh D100?


----------



## pearljam50000

What is the best sub 1000$ DAC for HD800?


----------



## MattTCG

rossliew said:


> McIntosh D100?


 
  
 I don't hear a lot about the d100, although I've read a few reviews. It doesn't seem to get the same notoriety as some other solutions here.


----------



## nigeljames

pearljam50000 said:


> What is the best sub 1000$ DAC for HD800?


 
  
 There isn't one.


----------



## 62ohm

pearljam50000 said:


> What is the best sub 1000$ DAC for HD800?


 
  
 I am currently extremely happy with my setup (Benchmark DAC1-USB -> HDVA600). I finally get the HD800 to sound in a way that I would describe as 'perfect' for my taste, nothing I heard that I found annoying or leaving me wanting for 'something more'. I've tried the Schiit Bifrost with it, as well as Arcam irDAC and Musical Fidelity M1 DAC and to me, the Benchmark DAC1 completes what the HDVA600 lacks. 
  
 I'm not saying that the Benchmark DAC1 is the best sub $1,000 DACfor HD800, but what I'm saying is synergy matters and the Benchmark DAC1 is probably one of the best DAC to pair with HDVA600/HDVD800 with the HD800. YMMV.


----------



## Rossliew

I've used the Modi into the Little Dot Mk 3 with the HD800 and it sounded glorious to these ears. Maybe not as revealing but no less musical. Good value for money


----------



## Rossliew

matttcg said:


> I don't hear a lot about the d100, although I've read a few reviews. It doesn't seem to get the same notoriety as some other solutions here.


 
 Mike Mercer will beg to differ  It does cost a pretty penny though


----------



## kothganesh

matttcg said:


> The uberfrost is a very good dac. But...I've heard the hd800 sound appreciably better on other dacs. I've been content with the bifrost for a long time, but I felt like if I could give the 800's a better source I'd be nearing the promised land.



I suppose you considered the Gungnir ?


----------



## MattTCG

kothganesh said:


> I suppose you considered the Gungnir ?


 
  
 Yes, and still am. It will all come down to what I'm able to audition and what the expenses look like at the time of purchase. Got to operate off the radar of Mrs. TCG. Secrete pp account is well padded though. 
  
 The gungnir would give me dual RCA outs which I'd really like.


----------



## BournePerfect

pearljam50000 said:


> What is the best sub 1000$ DAC for HD800?


 
  
 My favorite was the Nuforce HDP. Sounded somewhat similar to the Eximus DP1-but not as refined or nuanced. A steal at $275 used imo. Use a different amp though or prepare for some short listening sessions with the HD800.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm very much leaning towards the NAD option. I've read over and over how crucial the dac is for the overall performance of the 800. I'll likely pickup the NAD this week.


 
 Look forward to your impressions on this one bud, it's on my radar too.


----------



## palmfish

I still really enjoy using my Asus Essence One Muses. Good amp and great DAC. Makes a great preamp with my BH Crack too.


----------



## Jazic

I just got a pair of hd800s on my hands. I sat down last night in a quite low lit room and listened to "Over the Rainbow" from the Jazz at the Pawnshop album on my very underpowered e18 through USB out from a flac on my s4. While I had to boost the bass some it sounded decent enough. 

I listened to it from beginning to end and for the first time ever I actually teared up. Not exactly my manliness on display but for the first time ever I actually felt the music. 

Since then I've tried them on my sound blaster zxr and it is 100x better. Don't scoff it's actually a decent dac/amp card for the price. 

I have an Asus Essence STU with Muses upgraded and a Schiit Valhalla 2 coming in soon. If its even 5% better than what the zxr can do I'll be punching myself for not doing this sooner. 

As a note about the tears, I did recently lose my gma so that still has me soft hearted but wow did that song hit hard like I've never experienced with any other headphone. 

I did notice that with my SE846s when comparing the sound there seemed to be more details brought out by the IEM's. I will just blame that on their being so closed sounding and less airy so details are more present and easier to spot. If I could have the low end of the se846s and the high end of the hd800s I'd never leave my house. 

I'm still in the habit of bumping the 30&60hz about 4-6db and 16khz about the same. Most headphones lack those frequencies I've noticed. And yes I can hear 16khz barely but not 30hz so much. At 30hz it's more feel than hear.


----------



## kothganesh

I tried (in a very very long while) to do some EQ. Since I have Amarra, I chose the LCD-2 option for the EQ (very original right?) for my HD 800. To my ears, the bass is even more refined and deeper now. Driving the 800 off my ZD and rocking to No Quarter by Led Zeppelin.


----------



## whirlwind

I just now realized , that I have not done any EQ since i have had my new dac......sometimes I am slow to even catch on to the stuff I do myself


----------



## lin0003

Just a question for those who have heard the HD800 on a ton of amps. Is there a better amp than the V200 which is around the 1.5k price range?


----------



## 62ohm

lin0003 said:


> Just a question for those who have heard the HD800 on a ton of amps. Is there a better amp than the V200 which is around the 1.5k price range?


 
  
 I preferred both the BHA-1 and the HDVA600 to the V200. But I think if you're used to (and liked) the smoothness of the V200, the HDVA600 would suit you better (the Bryston leans more towards the bright side to me).


----------



## lin0003

Yeah, I'm wondering whether to get a HDVA 600 first or just wait and get a GS-X MKII.


----------



## Sorrodje

lin0003 said:


> Just a question for those who have heard the HD800 on a ton of amps. Is there a better amp than the V200 which is around the 1.5k price range?


 
  
 Maybe You can consider the DNA Sonett 2 although I never compared the two amps myself.


----------



## MattTCG

lin0003 said:


> Just a question for those who have heard the HD800 on a ton of amps. Is there a better amp than the V200 which is around the 1.5k price range?


 
  
 I heard the v200 during meet conditions and thought it was pretty good but not great with the 800. I thought the Vali was about on par for a fraction of the cost. My advice, save for the gs-x.


----------



## lin0003

Cheers.


----------



## punit

matttcg said:


> My advice, save for the gs-x.


 
 Or the Master 9.


----------



## ogodei

punit said:


> Or the Master 9.


 

  +1


----------



## navigavi

I'm using the HD800 with the v200 and v800 dac. This combo is very good. I wouldn't call it smooth as it is very detailed imo. But I'd like to hear the HDVA600 + v800 pair as well. Perhaps this combo is even more detailed with wider soundstage. Also I have not heard the v200 on any other source, but from what I heard the v200 really shines with the v800 dac.
 I'm waiting to get the first impressions on the new v281 HPA. Excited about the balanced output and how it compares to the single end output of the v200. Basically the overall improvements to the v200.
  
 My other headphone is the hd 580. It's used mostly at the office. I wouldn't dare to bring the hd800 to the office in my backpack.


----------



## kothganesh

navigavi said:


> ............... I wouldn't dare to bring the hd800 to the office in my backpack.


 
 I have a bag just for the 800 and will not anything else in the bag. Its really a tall shoe bag made by Nike.


----------



## Fegefeuer

What about the Hippocase by Jaben?


----------



## kothganesh

fegefeuer said:


> What about the Hippocase by Jaben?


 
 Out of stock


----------



## Canadian411

Pelican 1300 or 1450


----------



## ruthieandjohn

kothganesh said:


> I have a bag just for the 800 and will not anything else in the bag. Its really a tall shoe bag made by Nike.



I used a felt shoe bag for my beige Sennheiser 598s, only to have its brown color rub off on the beige edges of the headphone over time. Fortunately in this case, it matches the ear pads, but I would suggest caution in using shoe bags.


----------



## robrandtoul

To carry my HD800's to the office and back I use the case my Audeze LCD-XC's arrived in. Admittedly it's an expensive method of picking up a good carry case!


----------



## MattTCG

I bought a pelican case from Amazon that cost much less.


----------



## reddog

robrandtoul said:


> To carry my HD800's to the office and back I use the case my Audeze LCD-XC's arrived in. Admittedly it's an expensive method of picking up a good carry case!



Yes it might be expensive, but you own some of the best cans available. I plan on getting the HD800 and the Audeze LCD-XC, sometime next year.


----------



## MickeyVee

I have the Audeze case just for my HD800 but have yet to use it. A little over the top but it's nice.


----------



## bearFNF

The hippo case was out of stock when I ordered it, but I was able to get it in a bundle with a stand and the hippo biscuit. If you need a stand that is.


----------



## SilverEars

Hi guys, after extended listen, I think the Anedio D2 is a better match for the HD800 than the Hugo.  Although Hugo is a good source, D2 seems to do a better job.  I'm guessing integrated DAC/Amp do well with HD800 like somebody has stated earlier.


----------



## kkcc

lin0003 said:


> Just a question for those who have heard the HD800 on a ton of amps. Is there a better amp than the V200 which is around the 1.5k price range?




I think that V200 while decent is not good value for the price. It competes more against the amp section of $500 range audio gd amp/dac, or even Schitt Vali. 

With 1.5k you should consider paying a bit more for the audio gd M9 for SS or woo wa22 for tubes. Both imo are a way better than v200. 

What DAC are you using with the Hd800?


----------



## lin0003

kkcc said:


> I think that V200 while decent is not good value for the price. It competes more against the amp section of $500 range audio gd amp/dac, or even Schitt Vali.
> 
> With 1.5k you should consider paying a bit more for the audio gd M9 for SS or woo wa22 for tubes. Both imo are a way better than v200.
> 
> What DAC are you using with the Hd800?


 
 I'm using the M-DAC ATM. 
  
 Oh and how does the Master 9 compare with the HDVA 600?


----------



## SleepyOne

Anyone experiencing problem with the headband doesn't hold the cups in position?  Or that a piece of white foam coming out between the gap when extending/ retracting the headband?


----------



## kkcc

lin0003 said:


> I'm using the M-DAC ATM.
> 
> Oh and how does the Master 9 compare with the HDVA 600?




Personally I like the M9 over hdva600. M9 with a slightly warmer signature which I think would also work well with your Mdac.


----------



## lin0003

Thanks mate.


----------



## LugBug1

sleepyone said:


> Anyone experiencing problem with the headband doesn't hold the cups in position?  Or that a piece of white foam coming out between the gap when extending/ retracting the headband?


 
 Nope never heard of this before.. 
  
 Are they new? Sounds like a fault to me. Are you able to show us some pics?


----------



## SleepyOne

Yes, they are very new, 296xx. Sorry no pic - I have sent them back for repair yesterday. The shop (Hifiheadphones) has been very nice and wanted to replace it but I declined as I don't want to go though long burn-in again. Other than that it works perfectly.
  
 The problem I think is due to the small piece of self adhered white foam got loose and came out of its position - according to Senn. repair, it should be under the ball bearing or something.


----------



## whirlwind

sleepyone said:


> Yes, they are very new, 296xx. Sorry no pic - I have sent them back for repair yesterday. The shop (Hifiheadphones) has been very nice and wanted to replace it but I declined as I don't want to go though long burn-in again. Other than that it works perfectly.
> 
> The problem I think is due to the small piece of self adhered white foam got loose and came out of its position - according to Senn. repair, it should be under the ball bearing or something.


 
  
 Are these still under warranty...if not, it will be interesting to see what senn charges for repair.
  
 Hopefully there will be no charge


----------



## bearFNF

olor1n said:


> OK, so this turned out to be an easy fix. It's a little fiddly but all I used was a small flathead screwdriver, tweezers and small pliers. First you detach the headband padding as per this *clip*. You'll then see the adjustment mechanism on the underside of the metal band. There's a small plate holding the ball which glides over the adjustment grooves (*pic*).
> 
> I used a small flathead screwdriver to gently pry the ball from its seat. Make sure you don't let this roll away. It's tiny! Once out of the way I then used the tweezers to detach the small plate from the edge of the plastic (where it just clips on). When you have that plate it's then just a matter of gently bending the part where the ball sits (I used the pliers for this).
> 
> ...



This was posted a while back on how to fix the loose hedband.


----------



## ubs28

I got a chance to listen to the Sennheiser HD800 and I was pleasantly surprised how it sounded. The bass was excellent and I didn't hear any treble issues. It didn't sounded thin at all what I have been reading about. Hands down the best headphone I have listened to. However I was basically listen to a $7000 sound since it was connected to a very high end system.
  
 I personally think the soundstage is way too big. But maybe I need to get used to that.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I just got a note from Colorware that they have SHIPPED my matching color-coordinated Sennheiser HD 800 headphones and HDVD 800 amp and DAC. Should arrive Wednesday. Gotta check plugs and cables... a.n.t.i.c.i.p.a.t.i.o.n....


(Photo is my collage of two pictures, which is why the reds don't match here. In actuality, they will).


----------



## SleepyOne

whirlwind said:


> Are these still under warranty...if not, it will be interesting to see what senn charges for repair.
> 
> Hopefully there will be no charge


 
  
 It is UK stock, so warranty for 10 years! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Otherwise it will be expensive.


----------



## SleepyOne

bearfnf said:


> This was posted a while back on how to fix the loose hedband.


 
  
 Thank you!!


----------



## preproman

ruthieandjohn said:


> I just got a note from Colorware that they have SHIPPED my matching color-coordinated Sennheiser HD 800 headphones and HDVD 800 amp and DAC. Should arrive Wednesday. Gotta check plugs and cables... a.n.t.i.c.i.p.a.t.i.o.n....
> 
> 
> (Photo is my collage of two pictures, which is why the reds don't match here. In actuality, they will).


 
  
  
 Sweeeeeeet !!!!!!


----------



## 62ohm

ruthieandjohn said:


> I just got a note from Colorware that they have SHIPPED my matching color-coordinated Sennheiser HD 800 headphones and HDVD 800 amp and DAC. Should arrive Wednesday. Gotta check plugs and cables... a.n.t.i.c.i.p.a.t.i.o.n....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Looking good mate, congrats!


----------



## SleepyOne

*kayandjohn *- Congratulation and looking forward to your pics when you received them!


----------



## kothganesh

ruthieandjohn said:


> I just got a note from Colorware that they have SHIPPED my matching color-coordinated Sennheiser HD 800 headphones and HDVD 800 amp and DAC. Should arrive Wednesday. Gotta check plugs and cables... a.n.t.i.c.i.p.a.t.i.o.n....
> 
> 
> (Photo is my collage of two pictures, which is why the reds don't match here. In actuality, they will).


 
 Oh come on, from one alum of the UofM, I thought you would get it in maize and blue ! Unless, gasp, you're not one of us


----------



## Greed

Hey! Beats meets good sound.


----------



## icebear

Beats just get sued by Bose for violating 5 patents of noise cancelling technology in headphones.
 The HD800 doesn't cancel anything, it tells it like it is


----------



## LugBug1

icebear said:


> Beats just get sued by Bose for violating 5 patents of noise cancelling technology in headphones.
> The HD800 doesn't cancel anything, it tells it like it is


 
 I thought that they only used sound quality cancelling technology...


----------



## koiloco

lugbug1 said:


> I thought that they only used sound quality cancelling technology...


 
 You got me on the floor laughing.  Really good one!


----------



## SilverEars

Hi, guys I want to say Anedio D2 sounds detailed with every genre.  I tried using it as a DAC only, but I noticed detail loss with external amp, and I am a believer in integrated setup having the right synergy since the DAC and the Amp has been integrated by the designer.  And for this reason, the HD800 sound highly resolved out of the HD800.  Now I'm recognizing HD800's true ability.  HD800 is exactly what I'm looking for out of the Anedio D2.  Just highly resolving, and my CIEM can't even touch it's resolvability and the definition it provides.  What iems lack is definition and of course the feel of the sound around your ears. Everything sounds extremely resolved and well.  Of course with better mastering it gets better, but the D2 resolving everything so I'm enjoying the HD800.  HD800 has become my favorite phone since I love resolution and details and clairity.  I've been listing to Hugo and the D2, and my mind has been shifting which I like better and I finalized on the D2.  The HD800 needs a more powerful amp section than the Hugo it seems.  Those that has said pop and electronica still sounds good with the HD800, I believe you now!  I'm now getting the sense that with the D2, HD800 outputting what is actually intended.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yep, enjoying the same setup. HD 800 (+kick)Bass hits pretty hard and extends low, with wide cohorent soundstage, clarity/transp. 

Amazing with everything (Music, Gaming, Movies with SBX) though i still prefer the fostex for edm and Overall Bass needs.


----------



## 62ohm

Hi guys, which Senn do you think compliments the HD800 better, HD600 or HD650?


----------



## Canadian411

62ohm said:


> Hi guys, which Senn do you think compliments the HD800 better, HD600 or HD650?




Why going down hill?

If you have hd800 you will likely not using both hd650 or hd600.

Get one closed headphone. 

Altho I hate audeze, maybe lcdxc?
Or even better one like th900?


----------



## MattTCG

The Alpha Dog makes a great complement to the 800 IMO.


----------



## 62ohm

canadian411 said:


> 62ohm said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys, which Senn do you think compliments the HD800 better, HD600 or HD650?
> ...


 
  
 I like the sound of Audezes very much, and I wanted to like the headphone. But its comfort factor is a total deal-breaker for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So far my candidates are HD600, HD650 and SRH1540. But I figured since I have the HDVA600, the Senns would be a better choice.
  


matttcg said:


> The Alpha Dog makes a great complement to the 800 IMO.


 
  
 There's nowhere nearby I can try/get one.


----------



## SilverEars

fegefeuer said:


> Yep, enjoying the same setup. HD 800 (+kick)Bass hits pretty hard and extends low, with wide cohorent soundstage, clarity/transp.
> 
> Amazing with everything (Music, Gaming, Movies with SBX) though i still prefer the fostex for edm and Overall Bass needs.


 
 Why the hell does optical have lowered volume and has less textures?  It's odd.  But anyhow, D2 puts out resolution pretty well, but that sharp HD800 sibilance is still there(bangs head).
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I guess I can't avoid it unless I color the damn thing or mod it.  I don't want to add a amp like crack to color it as I notice integrated sound very resolved, and I don't like tubes.  I don't want to color it and lose resolution.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

kothganesh said:


> Oh come on, from one alum of the UofM, I thought you would get it in maize and blue ! Unless, gasp, you're not one of us


 

 Oh, I am, I AM one of you!  Five family members went to U of M, my grandmother went to school with three folks whose names are now on buildings, and I got five degrees there and taught there.  I thought long and hard, using the picture below.
  
  
  

  
 But eventually, matching my red-and-black FIAT Abarth Italian sports car won out...


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^^*Matt, I would love to learn more about how theAlpha Dogs compliment your HD800's?


----------



## SilverEars

silverears said:


> Why the hell does optical have lowered volume and has less textures?  It's odd.  But anyhow, D2 puts out resolution pretty well, but that sharp HD800 sibilance is still there(bangs head).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Tried my NT6 on the D2 to compare optical and usb.  USB is definately louder and outputs more details.  What would this be?  USB and optical is just transport of digital stream.  This is quite perplexing.


----------



## SilverEars

It seems that I need to bring down 5&6k a bit. It lines up with Tyll's graph of the hump at 5&6k.  I brought it down to -12dB on the graphic equilizer app for foobar, and it helps(it actually helps with tonality, not as tinny sounding and harshness is reduced), but is that too much?  How much does -12dB of the graphic equilizer translate to the loudness in dB?  I want to bring down 4dB according to the graph.


----------



## kothganesh

matttcg said:


> The Alpha Dog makes a great complement to the 800 IMO.


 
 Really!  To my ears the AD sounded a little thinner than the XC. Well, obviously YMMV. But nonetheless, good to check the ears (for hearing) once in a while.


----------



## kothganesh

ruthieandjohn said:


> Oh, I am, I AM one of you!  Five family members went to U of M, my grandmother went to school with three folks whose names are now on buildings, and I got five degrees there and taught there.  I thought long and hard, using the picture below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well, Go Blue ! You must share your name with me on a PM. I was there for 5 years for 2 degrees. Class of 1987 ! But I digress. The car needs repainting, I'm afraid 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Edit: That is one great pair of looking headphones. May I borrow your idea if in the future, I would like to change the paint on any of my HPs?


----------



## kkcc

ruthieandjohn said:


> Oh, I am, I AM one of you!  Five family members went to U of M, my grandmother went to school with three folks whose names are now on buildings, and I got five degrees there and taught there.  I thought long and hard, using the picture below.


 

  


kothganesh said:


> Well, Go Blue !........


 

  
  


Spoiler: Sorry for OT, but GO BLUE!!



 



  
  
 While I got my CIEM sorted, seems I still need to give ColorWare a call with the right pantone codes for our beloved Maize & Blue.............


----------



## kothganesh

kkcc said:


> Spoiler: Sorry for OT, but GO BLUE!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Wow, hello there ! Its never OT for the Maize and Blue. Superb looking CIEMs.


----------



## MattTCG

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^^*Matt, I would love to learn more about how theAlpha Dogs compliment your HD800's?


 
  
 I was referring more to the juxtaposition of closed and planar to the open dynamic of the 800...more so than a direct complement to the sound signature. There are times at my house when it's just too noisy to enjoy an open hp.


----------



## KazeNg

LOL when you said U of M I thought you were talking about the U of Minnesota, then I realized that the colors on the headphone are not maroon and gold. Thought I would meet a fellow gopher here.

 Anyways guys, does anyone know how the HD800 sound like when pairing with Wooaudio WA7? I know that somewhere in this thread someone had already given their opinions about this combination but looking through >800 pages is a hard task for someone that is lazy like me.
  


ruthieandjohn said:


> Oh, I am, I AM one of you!  Five family members went to U of M, my grandmother went to school with three folks whose names are now on buildings, and I got five degrees there and taught there.  I thought long and hard, using the picture below.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

kazeng said:


>


 

 I've worked with folks in Bloomington MN and at U Minn, so I am familiar with the different meaning of U of M... just didn't occur to me when I saw yours!
  

  
  
*Go Gophers!*


----------



## SilverEars

ruthieandjohn said:


> But eventually, matching my red-and-black FIAT Abarth Italian sports car won out...


 
 Who's that guy with matching HD800 in the fiat?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 John, your correlation chart is pretty interesting.  Lately I've noticed a correlation of SE846 iem users talking about the HD800(or some owning both here), would be interesting to get a relationship of iems and cans members here prefer.  Just an idea.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I don't know how you get the info for the chart.


----------



## longbowbbs

ruthieandjohn said:


> kazeng said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
 The Real U of M! Ski U Mah!


----------



## pearljam50000

Can EQing, adding bass, damage the drivers?


----------



## whirlwind

pearljam50000 said:


> Can EQing, adding bass, damage the drivers?


 
 No...no worries


----------



## bearFNF

Try the search function. I'd do it for you but I am on phone.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

silverears said:


> Who's that guy with matching HD800 in the fiat?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My chart info comes from head-fi.org members, as posted in the thread titled "Rank the Headphones That You Own," in the Over Ear portion of the Headphone forum.  I will indeed explore correlations between the Shure SE 846 (and its less bassy datemate, the SE 535, which I happen to have) and the HD 800.  I'm also a bit perplexed about the principles of correlation... do people tend to get more headphones that match the ones they have (that presumably match their preferences), or do they get headphones that complement, and are therefore different, their existing headphones??
  
*I* am the guy matching my Sennheiser HD 800 headphones and HDVD 800 amp to my black-and-red FIAT Abarth. Gotta do that since the HDVD 800 amp insists upon a plug, and therefore my portable system must include a plug.  That then means a generator (I picked out the matching black and red Honda gasoline generator) and a platform (my FIAT) sufficiently large, and color coordinated, to transport my portable system.
  
 Pictures to follow once the red-and-black HD 800 and HDVD 800 arrive this week!!


----------



## skeptic

matttcg said:


> I was referring more to the juxtaposition of closed and planar to the open dynamic of the 800...more so than a direct complement to the sound signature. There are times at my house when it's just too noisy to enjoy an open hp.




I'm with Matt. ADs are what I use when I don't have a quiet or empty house. They're also perfect for a bedside rig that won't drive your significant other crazy. 

Not quite in the same league with hd800s jacked into a complementary amp but very good nonetheless and very open sounding for closed phones. Nice neutral sound signature with good extension. Wish they had a tiny bit more subbass impact though. ADs can't quite move air like the larger dynamic drivers.


----------



## zerodeefex

I'd take Paradox Slant over either LCD-XC or ADs for that situation. Having tried all three, the Slants are the best close complement to the HD800s I've found


----------



## SilverEars

ruthieandjohn said:


> My chart info comes from head-fi.org members, as posted in the thread titled "Rank the Headphones That You Own," in the Over Ear portion of the Headphone forum.  I will indeed explore correlations between the Shure SE 846 (and its less bassy datemate, the SE 535, which I happen to have) and the HD 800.  I'm also a bit perplexed about the principles of correlation... do people tend to get more headphones that match the ones they have (that presumably match their preferences), or do they get headphones that complement, and are therefore different, their existing headphones??
> 
> *I* am the guy matching my Sennheiser HD 800 headphones and HDVD 800 amp to my black-and-red FIAT Abarth. Gotta do that since the HDVD 800 amp insists upon a plug, and therefore my portable system must include a plug.  That then means a generator (I picked out the matching black and red Honda gasoline generator) and a platform (my FIAT) sufficiently large, and color coordinated, to transport my portable system.
> 
> Pictures to follow once the red-and-black HD 800 and HDVD 800 arrive this week!!


 
 Well, I ran into a post somebody loving the LCD3 and looking for iems that match that, and I'm sure people like certain cans for certain characteristics and will have similar taste way through, although will not be always the case.  iem to cans correlation probably would not be a good to explore as I think there will be too much variances, but I think what would be useful would be what is the most popular amp per price range for HD800 and also the HE-6.  Anyway, enjoy the HD800 when it arrives I'm sure the HDVD800 should be a good match like skeptic says as it's engineered by Sennheiser.  I also notice integrated DAC/Amp seems to be good as the D2 is not all too bad.  I wonder if the extra output impedance of the HDVD800 would cut off some treble at the peak region.  It would be hard to tell unless you compare with exact same amp with 0 output impedance.  
  
 Anyway, I think the HD800's strengths are high resolvability and it's the characteristic that I look for and it seems to be a must have for a collection.  As somebody said earlier it's a good reference to test how resolving the source is.


----------



## Canadian411

zerodeefex said:


> I'd take Paradox Slant over either LCD-XC or ADs for that situation. Having tried all three, the Slants are the best close complement to the HD800s I've found




Never heard paradox slant,is it worth it? Isn't that the original $100 fostex t50rp tuned for $700 ? But same driver?


----------



## zerodeefex

canadian411 said:


> zerodeefex said:
> 
> 
> > I'd take Paradox Slant over either LCD-XC or ADs for that situation. Having tried all three, the Slants are the best close complement to the HD800s I've found
> ...


 
  
 There is a cheaper version that I use. It's called the Starving Student and eschews the mini XLR out and the fancy paint scheme but sounds pretty darn good.
  
 Yes, it's a t50rp modded, just like the Mr. Speakers cans. It's hand done by LFF and he is incredibly meticulous about his headphones. He's passionate about mastering audio and it shows through in the cans.


----------



## Greed

zerodeefex said:


> There is a cheaper version that I use. It's called the Starving Student and eschews the mini XLR out and the fancy paint scheme but sounds pretty darn good.
> 
> Yes, it's a t50rp modded, just like the Mr. Speakers cans. It's hand done by LFF and he is incredibly meticulous about his headphones. He's passionate about mastering audio and it shows through in the cans.


 
  
 Yup, Paradox Slants are one of the best closed headphone I've heard and definitely a nice compliment.


----------



## ubs28

Will the Chord Hugo + Sennheiser HD800 work great? I'm interested in the Chord Hugo since I also got the Shure SE846 which needs a new amplifier.


----------



## reddog

ubs28 said:


> Will the Chord Hugo + Sennheiser HD800 work great? I'm interested in the Chord Hugo since I also got the Shure SE846 which needs a new amplifier.


In the head-fi summer 2014 guide, The Chord Hugo was demonstrated, for Jude, with the HD800. The cans seemed to run just fine with the C.H.


----------



## pearljam50000

Has anyone tried the HD800 with audio-gd NFB-11?


----------



## MattTCG

I have an NFB Fun on loan that I could try if that helps you any.


----------



## pearljam50000

matttcg said:


> I have an NFB Fun on loan that I could try if that helps you any.



Thanks
Only if it doesnt bother you much of course.


----------



## MattTCG

No problem. I'll compare it against my Crack and report back.


----------



## rsbrsvp

I just got a HD800 about two weeks ago.
  
 My impressions as of now are:
  
 1. Not bright at all.  
 2. Not thin at all.
 3. Extremely transparent.  (some may mistake this for brightness)
 4. Very true to the source.
 5. Soundstage is best I have heard on headphones.  
 6.  No lack of bass.  Whatever is on the recording- you get.
 7.  To my ears-  better than the SR-009.  The 009 has serious bass issues and something is the out of whack in the spacial presentation.  The imaging, soundstage, impact, and bass are much better on the HD800.  The 009 is indeed slightly smoother.
 8.  My ears do not hurt at all. They feel good.
 9.  Sounds great with rock although I do not listen to heavy metal.  The impact is much better than electrostats.  I do not see this as a classical or symphony music only headphone at all.
 10. I think my ears must be different than most people because everything above goes against a lot of other peoples opinions.


----------



## MattTCG

Nope. Many of us share your opinion on the 800.


----------



## Canadian411

Same, except no 7, never heard sr009 so i don't know.


----------



## icebear

rsbrsvp said:


> I just got a HD800 about two weeks ago.
> 
> My impressions as of now are:
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats ! Welcome to the club 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
 IMHO your ears are doing just fine, most likely a lot of others have an issue with #4 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Pepper

Just got my hands on a vintage JVC RS-5 receiver, and the HD800s have suddenly come alive. I can't believe I haven't ever listened to them through something like this... I was running them out of the Objective2s before, and it was very articulate but it was very lifeless and dull.
  
 Now the HD800s sound more like speakers instead of headphones.
  
 The RS-5 isn't even good. I'm trying to purchase a famed a Marantz 2245 next week. Let's see how that goes!


----------



## skeptic

I'll wager that your JVC has a nice high output impedance on its headphone jack, like many other vintage receivers.  What is bad for low ohm phones and iems often sounds really good with hd800's (at least to a lot of us!).  Google up: "hd800 and 120ohm standard"


----------



## ubs28

reddog said:


> In the head-fi summer 2014 guide, The Chord Hugo was demonstrated, for Jude, with the HD800. The cans seemed to run just fine with the C.H.


 
 Thanks


----------



## OldSkool

pepper said:


> Just got my hands on a vintage JVC RS-5 receiver, and the HD800s have suddenly come alive. I can't believe I haven't ever listened to them through something like this... I was running them out of the Objective2s before, and it was very articulate but it was very lifeless and dull.
> 
> Now the HD800s sound more like speakers instead of headphones.
> 
> The RS-5 isn't even good. I'm trying to purchase a famed a Marantz 2245 next week. Let's see how that goes!


 

 Pepper, I hope you have better luck pairing your HD800 with a vintage Marantz than I had. My recapped 2226B sounded...well, gritty. I didn't expect that, since that Marantz paired so well with the HE500s I used to own.
  
 FWIW, I'm completely blown away by the HD800/Woo WA2 combo.


----------



## SilverEars

skeptic said:


> I'll wager that your JVC has a nice high output impedance on its headphone jack, like many other vintage receivers.  What is bad for low ohm phones and iems often sounds really good with hd800's (at least to a lot of us!).  Google up: "hd800 and 120ohm standard"


 
 Explain to me how this standard works,who came up with the standard.  And what this 120ohms is doing.  Explain the study in details. Then I'll buy it.  In the mean time, here is some literature.
  
 http://test.benchmarkmedia.com/discuss/sites/default/files/Headphone-Amplifier-Performance-Part-2.pdf


----------



## Dogmatrix

120 Ohm was/is the design standard because the headphone jack on most amps back then was tapped direct from the speaker output with around 120 Ohm of resistance added to reduce gain to headphone friendly levels.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I just received my color-coordinated-by Colorware Sennheiser HD 800 headphones and HDVD 800 DAC/amp! YAY!!!
  
 Colors chosen to go with my prized red-and-black FIAT Abarth, as shown...
  

*HD/HDVD 800s selected for the best in color-coordinated on-the-road listening!  *




  
 Initial impressions? Absolutely BREATHTAKING on .wav version of Nikolaus Harnoncourt recording of Mozart's _Requiem_. 
  
 I then wanted to try its bass response, so I went to my bass test track to find its sub bass was horribly distorted.  Using the same amp but another headphone (Sennheiser HD 598), sub bass was STILL distorted.
  
 I brought up more details in the HDVD 800 thread here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/605444/sennheiser-hdvd800-headphone-amplifier/2145#post_10750794
  
 Thanks to SilverEars, I think I'm getting some insight on this...
  
 Anyway, I'm now in a new world with an amplifier where bass is actually played rather than attenuated, and the HD 800 is known to be most revealing of defects such as compression.  Lots to learn and try!
  
edit 40 min later... was neither the headphone nor the amp... I unknowingly had my iTunes PC equalizer turned up for +12 dB bass boost at 32 Hz!  Wild distortion!  Clue was when Windows Media Player played the same file just fine.


----------



## Pepper

oldskool said:


> Pepper, I hope you have better luck pairing your HD800 with a vintage Marantz than I had. My recapped 2226B sounded...well, gritty. I didn't expect that, since that Marantz paired so well with the HE500s I used to own.
> 
> FWIW, I'm completely blown away by the HD800/Woo WA2 combo.


 

 This worries me a lot . Hopefully I will get a chance to audition the Marantz 2245 before I commit. This JVC sounds really good to my ears and all, but it does sound a little sloppy at times (whatever that means). Thanks for the heads up.
  
 I would love to try out the HD800s with the WA2 or something like the ZDSE... But they're both a trillion times more expensive than these vintage amps.
  
 I just can't believe I've been listening to my HD800s through something like the O2 and thinking that's all they really had to deliver. I love these so much I even came home early today to listen to them.


----------



## Maxvla

ubs28 said:


> Will the Chord Hugo + Sennheiser HD800 work great? I'm interested in the Chord Hugo since I also got the Shure SE846 which needs a new amplifier.



I've heard the pairing. It's decent, but not great. If you must use HD800s in a transportable situation (hotel room, mixing tracks away from home, etc) it's good enough. As a main rig, no way.


----------



## SilverEars

ruthieandjohn said:


> edit 40 min later... was neither the headphone nor the amp... I unknowingly had my iTunes PC equalizer turned up for +12 dB bass boost at 32 Hz!  Wild distortion!  Clue was when Windows Media Player played the same file just fine.


 
 Now we know, when something clips, EQ should be checked also.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  On a related note, graphic equalizer for foobar that I use has anti-clipping mechanism when you try to boost the frequencies.  The volume will lower when boosting, and I thought it was odd, and Lug said it was to prevent clipping.


----------



## 62ohm

maxvla said:


> ubs28 said:
> 
> 
> > Will the Chord Hugo + Sennheiser HD800 work great? I'm interested in the Chord Hugo since I also got the Shure SE846 which needs a new amplifier.
> ...


 
  
 What about the Centrance HiFi-M8? Would it be a better solution for a transportable HD800 rig?


----------



## skeptic

I wish I was smart enough to explain the cause of the phenomena SE. All I can share is what I hear and that various threads and posted measurements seem to agree that higher output impedance leads to a slight bass boost and a fuller sounding hd800. Some speculate that hd800s can be overdamped (and I don't mean mechanically - see eg http://www.hydrogenaud.io/forums/index.php?showtopic=101834 ). For all I know, part of the effect could be slight added distortion, which might ultimately sound more real/pleasing (to some of us?) because of the room effects we are accustomed to hearing when listening to real life bass instruments and voices.

I can PM you with a link if you like, but there is a thread elsewhere
 where purrin posted comparative measurements using impedance adapters which showed how the hd800 FR curve changes as output impedance goes up. The bass develops quite a hump. 

Thanks for the link you posted! I've read a couple of other interesting benchmark articles on output impedance (eg how they advocate against push pull circuits because output impedance doubles). Along the same lines, I read all of nwavguy's proselytizing about 0 ohm output impedance back in the day. I agree that this school of design seems to make a lot of sense, but most headfiers don't seem to find measurement first headamps like the o2 or benchmark dac1 headamp to be ideal pairings with hd800s. (I love my agdr modded o2 with my ADs though...) 

I'd love to better understand all this. Senns decision to run with a slightly high output impedance on their own amps seems consistent with the theory that 0 ohms doesn't yield ideal FR or damping with hd800s though. Thoughts?


----------



## whirlwind

well, i just finished listening to Pink Floyd's Coming back To Life, from the Division Bell remastered cd.
  
 It literally made the hair on my arms stand up........I just love these cans


----------



## nigeljames

skeptic said:


> Thanks for the link you posted! I've read a couple of other interesting benchmark articles on output impedance (eg how they advocate against push pull circuits because output impedance doubles). Along the same lines, I read all of nwavguy's proselytizing about 0 ohm output impedance back in the day. I agree that this school of design seems to make a lot of sense, but most headfiers don't seem to find measurement first headamps like the o2 or benchmark dac1 headamp to be ideal pairings with hd800s. (I love my agdr modded o2 with my ADs though...)
> 
> I'd love to better understand all this. *Senns decision to run with a slightly high output impedance on their own amps seems consistent with the theory that 0 ohms doesn't yield ideal FR or damping with hd800s though. Thoughts?*


 
  
 Running my HD800's through 1 ohm output impedance of my Master-6 and it sounds superb.
 Plenty of deep tight impactful bass, smooth but extended treble, full open midrange. Combine that with superb speed, detail and dynamics and I could wish for nothing more.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So I don't think it's just an impedance issue.


----------



## kkcc

nigeljames said:


> Running my HD800's through 1 ohm output impedance of my Master-6 and it sounds superb.
> Plenty of deep tight impactful bass, smooth but extended treble, full open midrange. Combine that with superb speed, detail and dynamics and I could wish for nothing more.
> 
> So I don't think it's just an impedance issue.




Good to hear that it works well with M6, but it would be more useful if you are comparing it straight from M6 vs M6 with an adapter that changed the OI and see if you find any difference.


----------



## Sorrodje

skeptic said:


> I wish I was smart enough to explain the cause of the phenomena SE. All I can share is what I hear and that various threads and posted measurements seem to agree that higher output impedance leads to a slight bass boost and a fuller sounding hd800. Some speculate that hd800s can be overdamped (and I don't mean mechanically - see eg http://www.hydrogenaud.io/forums/index.php?showtopic=101834 ). For all I know, part of the effect could be slight added distortion, which might ultimately sound more real/pleasing (to some of us?) because of the room effects we are accustomed to hearing when listening to real life bass instruments and voices.
> 
> I can PM you with a link if you like, but there is a thread elsewhere
> where purrin posted comparative measurements using impedance adapters which showed how the hd800 FR curve changes as output impedance goes up. The bass develops quite a hump.
> ...


 
  
 The Sonett 2 provides an impedance switch so i can choose between IEC output impedance ( 120 Ohms) and standard Sonett Impedance ( 12ohms in low gain , 28 in High gain & on XLR output ) . I tried the IEC setting and found the result a bit "muddy". I switched back to low impedance mode and never looked back since .  I don't know if this experience can be extened to other amps.


----------



## LugBug1

pepper said:


> This worries me a lot . Hopefully I will get a chance to audition the Marantz 2245 before I commit. This JVC sounds really good to my ears and all, but it does sound a little sloppy at times (whatever that means). Thanks for the heads up.
> 
> I would love to try out the HD800s with the WA2 or something like the ZDSE... But they're both a trillion times more expensive than these vintage amps.
> 
> I just can't believe I've been they to my HD800s through something like the O2 and thinking that's all they really had to deliver. I love these so much I even came home early today to listen to them.


 
 Yeah the problem with all vintage amps is that because they are old the sound can vary dramatically between the same models depending on the condition inside. Dying capacitors can really dull the sound compared to an amp that hasn't had much use for instance. Always clean the pots and switches with contact cleaner as there will be a build-up of oxides if it hasn't been serviced in a long while, this can make a dramatic difference too as the signal travels through all pots and switches.
  
 Just a note on 70's Marantz in general and IME- They look lovely  But there are much better sounding amps for a lot less money. Don't get me wrong, they sound nice and will power the HD800's well and add body - but what you pay for a Marantz you could have A LOT better sound (and a higher end model) for your money with a 70's Pioneer, Sansui, Trio, Yamaha or my particular fave with the HD800 an early 80's NAD.
  
This is obviously just my two cents as some are very happy with the old Marantz sound   
  
Just a note on 120ohm, I would advise anyone who thinks the HD800 can sound a little dry or thin (and there are peeps out there!  to try a high impedance output and see if it pleases them. I think it can work great if you want a more bassy HD800. These days I tend to think it can be a little bit overkill as the sub bass isn't as tight as lower impedance amps... But its all give and take and what you lose you gain etc... The NAD amps I mentioned above have very low impedance value for vintage and they sound more 'right' to me.


----------



## MattTCG

lugbug1 said:


> Yeah the problem with all vintage amps is that because they are old the sound can vary dramatically between the same models depending on the condition inside. Dying capacitors can really dull the sound compared to an amp that hasn't had much use for instance. Always clean the pots and switches with contact cleaner as there will be a build-up of oxides if it hasn't been serviced in a long while, this can make a dramatic difference too as the signal travels through all pots and switches.
> 
> Just a note on 70's Marantz in general and IME- They look lovely  But there are much better sounding amps for a lot less money. Don't get me wrong, they sound nice and will power the HD800's well and add body -* but what you pay for a Marantz you could have A LOT better sound (and a higher end model) for your money with a 70's Pioneer, Sansui, Trio, Yamaha or my particular fave with the HD800 an early 80's NAD.*
> 
> ...


 
  
 THIS...


----------



## Pepper

lugbug1 said:


>


 
  
 Thanks! Actually, instead of the PM, would you happen to have any recommendations as to some of these models that pair the best?
  
 You speak highly of the NAD amp, but I don't know much about them. Is there a particular model I should be looking out for?


----------



## skeptic

nigeljames said:


> Running my HD800's through 1 ohm output impedance of my Master-6 and it sounds superb.
> Plenty of deep tight impactful bass, smooth but extended treble, full open midrange. Combine that with superb speed, detail and dynamics and I could wish for nothing more.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 No doubt you're right!  Output impedance is just one interesting part of the equation when amping hd800's -- one means of increasing bass response and perceived fullness (but also bass bloom) by a few plainly audible db's as it goes up.  I don't doubt that there are many excellent ss headamps out there that pair beautifully with hd800's.  Higher output impedance is just an easily identified factor that can change the balance and FR for those who find them a little too lean or treble heavy.  
  
 Honestly, I was surprised when I found out the output impedance numbers on the Sennheiser amps.  I would love to hear an insider perspective on how they made their design decisions.  Granted, I prefer the sound of my modded crack to my "boosted" o2 with hd800's, but 40 ohms seems relatively unusual among modern ss gear.
  


sorrodje said:


> The Sonett 2 provides an impedance switch so i can choose between IEC output impedance ( 120 Ohms) and standard Sonett Impedance ( 12ohms in low gain , 28 in High gain & on XLR output ) . I tried the IEC setting and found the result a bit "muddy". I switched back to low impedance mode and never looked back since .  I don't know if this experience can be extened to other amps.


 
  
 Actually, your experience mirrors my own with the mainline.  I use the low impedance setting (nominally 16 ohms but effectively single digit per BH's recent clarification on the topic) 90% of the time with my hd800 because it sounds cleaner, tighter and faster to me, and the mainline has 0 issues with strident trebles.  
  
 I don't mean to suggest that high output impedance is somehow objectively better when amping hd800's, but try the following: listen for an hour with something like the o2 and then jack them into an OTL amp or vintage receiver for a very refreshing change of pace.  At CanJam, I went from listening to hd800's on a headamp max to Woo Audio table.  They almost sounded like different headphones.  Kind of like that thread regarding the android app fiio is developing that makes one headphone sound like another purely through eq.


----------



## Sorrodje

skeptic said:


> listen for an hour with something like the o2 and then jack them into an OTL amp or vintage receiver for a very refreshing change of pace.  At CanJam, I went from listening to hd800's on a headamp max to Woo Audio table. * They almost sounded like different headphones*.  Kind of like that thread regarding the android app fiio is developing that makes one headphone sound like another purely through eq.


 
  
  
  
 That's a point that characterizes very well the HD800. This can can really sound differently depending on the upstream gear associated with
 I tried a HD650 last WE. it sounded beautifully on my Sonett/Octave Rig but the first and main thing I thought is that i don't need a HD650 as compliment. my HD800/Sonett/Metrum Octave system covers all bases for my personal tastes . I can really enjoy every music I want without any need of another headphone.
  
 That been said, i'm really interested in listening more amps, dacs & headphones despite the fact I'm fully happy with my current rig.


----------



## isquirrel

Thinking of going with the HD800's to join my rig, currently have LCD-X + Hugo + Studio Six. ALO were telling me this morning what a great combination the HD800's are with the SS.
  
 Anyone tried this combo and can report?


----------



## Revogamer

I can attest to the HD800 pairing very well with the studio six - best I have heard myself  imho of course..


----------



## isquirrel

revogamer said:


> I can attest to the HD800 pairing very well with the studio six - best I have heard myself
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Can you give any impressions please on the differences between LCD-X and HD800's?
  
 What cable are you running?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Revogamer

Cables are standard on my HD800's but will be going Reference 16 soon..
  
 The LCD-X has more weight to it; the HD800 has a much airier presentation and a much larger sound stage, the S6 tames the treble so that it is detailed and not harsh.
  
 Pretty much in line with what everyone else says.. different than better; what kind of music do you listen to mostly?


----------



## Canadian411

Isn't alo ref 16 just waste of money?


----------



## screwdriver

isquirrel said:


> Thinking of going with the HD800's to join my rig, currently have LCD-X + Hugo + Studio Six. ALO were telling me this morning what a great combination the HD800's are with the SS.
> 
> Anyone tried this combo and can report?


 
 i have the alo studio six and decware pre amp  combo - with nad m51 dac and lcd-x . ill have the senn hd800 tomorrow but i already auditioned the senns before .
 i like the studio six with the sennheiser hd800 and i can live with it . a lot of people say they hear the best out of the senns with a tube amp with bigger tubes .
 lcd-x vs the hd800 is a matter of preference depending on gear / type of music music .


----------



## SilverEars

skeptic said:


> I wish I was smart enough to explain the cause of the phenomena SE. All I can share is what I hear and that various threads and posted measurements seem to agree that higher output impedance leads to a slight bass boost and a fuller sounding hd800. Some speculate that hd800s can be overdamped (and I don't mean mechanically - see eg http://www.hydrogenaud.io/forums/index.php?showtopic=101834 ). For all I know, part of the effect could be slight added distortion, which might ultimately sound more real/pleasing (to some of us?) because of the room effects we are accustomed to hearing when listening to real life bass instruments and voices.
> 
> I can PM you with a link if you like, but there is a thread elsewhere
> where purrin posted comparative measurements using impedance adapters which showed how the hd800 FR curve changes as output impedance goes up. The bass develops quite a hump.
> ...


 
 It's all about preference.  If somebody thinks that the 120ohm output load produces better sound, that's their preference, after all what we enjoy cannot be objectified.  Purely on performace standpoint, 0 OI is desired.  The 40 on the Sennheiser amp is not the big of a deal compared to the HD800 impedance characteristic, so I'm sure that's why the design is the way it is, but Sennheiser is known for making headphones, and they are not known for making amps, although there has been some in the past.  Not saying they make bad amps as I have not heard their amp.  I have the O2, and there is a difference between it and another amp, and it didn't sound so good out of the HD800.  0 ohm output impedance isn't end of all, there are other factors to an amp also, but we shouldn't be seeing high load for headphone amps.  Understandable that these are receivers and have the 120ohms to drop the power for headphone out as they were not primarily designed for headphone load in mind.  It's a good point that was brought up about the 120ohm attenuator as standard as they probably want to give the user an option of headphone out without creating a new amp section. 
  
 The vintage receivers sound alike a fantastic deal as lots of the top class headphone amps are quite expensive.  I can understand HE-6 is being loaded with speaker amps(hence the long thread with many people talking about speaker amps being used), as the HE-6 is basically a resistive load with flat impedance characteristic(it should not vary with output impedance), but the HD800's impedance characteristic varies quite a bit around the bass area as well know, and therefore at a performance standpoint, it makes sense to shoot for low OI.


----------



## Maxvla

62ohm said:


> What about the Centrance HiFi-M8? Would it be a better solution for a transportable HD800 rig?



Never heard a M8.


----------



## isquirrel

screwdriver said:


> i have the alo studio six and decware pre amp  combo - with nad m51 dac and lcd-x . ill have the senn hd800 tomorrow but i already auditioned the senns before .
> i like the studio six with the sennheiser hd800 and i can live with it . a lot of people say they hear the best out of the senns with a tube amp with bigger tubes .
> lcd-x vs the hd800 is a matter of preference depending on gear / type of music music .


 

 Thanks, I have prepared the wallet for the HD800 drain, it will be interesting to hear your thoughts after you have lived with both the LCD-X and HD800 for a while with the SS.
  
 Have you got NOS tubes in the SS?


----------



## screwdriver

isquirrel said:


> Thanks, I have prepared the wallet for the HD800 drain, it will be interesting to hear your thoughts after you have lived with both the LCD-X and HD800 for a while with the SS.
> 
> Have you got NOS tubes in the SS?


 
 i have tungsol 6sn7 roundplates .pope 6v6 , mullard Ob2 and phillips 5R4GYS  on the alo S6 - but i have to balance this out with the decware csp3 preamp with 6n1p- cryoset , tungsram 6922 and the mullard GZ37
  
 the decware csp3 with the alo studio six combined together is like alo studio six on steriods


----------



## isquirrel

revogamer said:


> Cables are standard on my HD800's but will be going Reference 16 soon..
> 
> The LCD-X has more weight to it; the HD800 has a much airier presentation and a much larger sound stage, the S6 tames the treble so that it is detailed and not harsh.
> 
> Pretty much in line with what everyone else says.. different than better; what kind of music do you listen to mostly?


 

 I tried both the Ref 16 and the Salty Pepper cables and preferred the latter as having a better balanced sound with more bass weight and extension. I spoke with ALO, the Salty Pepper's are there preference. The Salty Pepper is a bulkier cable however I don't find that a problem in use.
  
 I listen to a wide range of music, from Classical, Jazz, Singer Songwriter to Trance/Rock diverse range, however I do enjoy (as we all do I suspect) a good solid weight to the sound. I am interested in the your comments re the HD800's and sound differences vs the LCD-X


----------



## isquirrel

screwdriver said:


> i have tungsol 6sn7 roundplates .pope 6v6 , mullard Ob2 and phillips 5R4GYS  on the alo S6 - but i have to balance this out with the decware csp3 preamp with 6n1p- cryoset , tungsram 6922 and the mullard GZ37
> 
> the decware csp3 with the alo studio six combined together is like alo studio six on steriods


 

 Mmm really I have not heard the declare, must see if I can. I am running RCA 6SN7 Black Base (Red Base on its way) Bendix 6V6's, Mullard OB2's and Mullard 5AR4, trying to find a metal base for reasonable $, might take a while I think, I see some going for $800US on eBay


----------



## skeptic

Not to start a complete sh!tstorm, but I think it is kind of hard to take ALO seriously these days given:
  
 1) The serious criticisms that have been aimed at the Studio Six by venerated EE's like Dr. Gilmore and Spritzer and to a lesser extent, and much more gently worded, Doug at ECP, among many others.  Most of this discussion has taken place elsewhere, and links to that site are not permitted, but the long and the short of it is that the circuit has been reverse engineered, and I have yet to see any engineer come forward to challenge the criticisms and say: no really, this is a great design with a solid psu, using quality components.  Having defected to the humanities half way through college, I lack the expertise to weigh in on these judgments, but I do think it is a shame that so much information is available elsewhere and can't seem to make it to/remain available on this site which probably has the most consumer influence on headphone related purchases.  
  
 2) Various cable MOT's have candidly discussed, in a head-fi thread which still exists, how ALO was selling (maybe still is?) pricey hd800 cables that used wires which are  physically too large to connect to the barrel connectors at the cups.  Seriously? 
  
 3) We lost Uncle Eric (http://www.head-fi.org/t/602236/uncle-eric-o-brother-where-art-thou), who was one of head-fi's absolute best posters, IMO, after he was absolutely lambasted in an ALO related thread for raising the very valid point that ALO was marketing a portable "tube amp" that was, in fact, a hybrid.  Reading his explanation was like a free education in amp design.  Nonetheless, he was subjected to ruthless flaming and ultimately departed from head-fi.  I didn't know the guy, but I sure miss reading his humorous, articulate and highly informed posts.
  
 I have no skin in this game whatsoever, and if any of the above is incorrect or inaccurate - I'd welcome corrections.  But based on my present info and understanding, _caveat emptor _and all that jazz...


----------



## BournePerfect

Does it really matter when almost every Studio Six owner loves it's sound?

Fwiw Spritzer also bashed the Zana Deux design-one of the most loved amps around. 

I do agree Uncle Erik had some truly insightful posts here, if he really left that is unfortunate. He had the best write up on the ZD I have found, which really explained it's unique topology in an understandable way, without blasting it's unorthodox design like certain armchair engineers around here. 

-Daniel


----------



## isquirrel

I am off to demo a pair of HD800's today, won't be hauling the Studio Six to the store, will try them with the Hugo & take my LCD-X's for comparison, hopefully can score a home audition


----------



## SilverEars

I got the Benchmark DAC2 D, and the headphone out is too bright with HD800.  But, boy is it accurate, I have never heard such accuracy with my CIEM.  It's outputting stuff I have not heard with Hugo which I thought was highly resolving.  It outputs subtleties that Hugo failed to output.  Rediculous.


----------



## pearljam50000

Congrats, it's my dream DAC!


----------



## SilverEars

pearljam50000 said:


> Congrats, it's my dream DAC!


 
 Thing is amazing.  I would say it's the most accurate I've ever heard.  Ok, it's bright and bass is lacking out of headphone jack.  But, man is it accurate, Eva Cassity's vocals sound so different.  It's like I'm hearing hear voice as it was recorded, if you guys can understand what I mean.  She sounds different.  To me, it's the most transparent or true to recording I've heard.  I hear so much more!!  It may not be for those folks that's looking for musical sounds as it's much too accurate. It's much suited for monitoring for some for this reason.  My goal is most accurate sound, so I'm ok with it.  I want to hear everything and this DAC is really outputting everything there is IMO.  Although Hugo sounds to be resolving, I didn't think it sounded accurate.


----------



## koiloco

^ awesome DAC.  I tried it and liked it a lot.  That DAC + a good tube amp + HD800 = sonic heaven.  Hint Hint Hint....


----------



## SilverEars

koiloco said:


> ^ awesome DAC.  I tried it and liked it a lot.  That DAC + a good tube amp + HD800 = sonic heaven.  Hint Hint Hint....


 
 Yeah, yeah. Tubes. It does need something to tame the harshness.  It's harsh, yes and it's accurate.  Is that the trade off? With the 800, I have to put up with some harshness to get the accuracy. Anyway, it's like I'm recognizing Eva Cassidy's voice now.  I'm like, oh that's how she sounds like.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  D2 was dry, and it gives you a perception of more details which the DAC2 isn't.  Not as dry as D2, but when I hear Eva's voice, I feel like I'm hearing hear real voice because everything is there.


----------



## 62ohm

Judging by how much I'm loving the Benchmark DAC1, I guess the DAC2 would be a spot-on to my taste. Great, another piece of gear to add to my wishlist, when will it end?


----------



## koiloco

If I have to describe DAC2 in one word,  it would be "clean".   Some people think it's cold, I don't.


----------



## SilverEars

koiloco said:


> If I have to describe DAC2 in one word,  it would be "clean".   Some people think it's cold, I don't.


 
 I actually thought iems could not get close to cans in terms of realism, I was wrong.  DAC2 makes the iems sound as good as the cans.   If iems can pick up such accuracy, this tells you alot.  Also, I notice DAC2 can reveal which tracks are just even more accurate out of even the best of the tracks.  It makes me think the the better the DAC, more you can decern difference between even the best recordings.  I picked out several recordings that were outputting much more nuances that I haven't heard before than others, and it makes me think those recordings were done much better in terms of accuracy.  
  
 I think for testing sources, HD800 is good to have.  And for testing headphones the DAC2 is good to have. For testing out recordings, the DAC2.  The two are good at revealing audio performance.


----------



## Fearless1

Said it before and will say it again: DAC2>>>Fosgate Signature>>HD800 is the best thing I have heard to date. The Fosgate gives that bit of warmth need while still keeping the sound crisp and detailed.


----------



## MattTCG

fearless1 said:


> Said it before and will say it again: DAC2>>>Fosgate Signature>>HD800 is the best thing I have heard to date. The Fosgate gives that bit of warmth need while still keeping the sound crisp and detailed.


 
  
 I would love to hear that setup. Maybe one day at a meet. The best (reasonably attainable) setup that I've heard is hd800, gs-x mkii, and NAD m51. Just got a a big ole crush on that setup.


----------



## Madmollusk

Guys:

 

 I highly recommend the Peachtree Audio - DAC iTx and the Schiit Vali for folks on a restrictive budget. After a little haggling, I acquired this modest setup for about $369.00 USD. This amp/dac combo has amazing synergy with the HD800. The Vali, in particular, is an amazing value, and I have no compunction in crowning this little guy the new king of budget headphone amps (at least in the context of driving the HD800). Yes, the Vali, imho, is better than even the Matrix M Stage, the previous king of budget amps (again in the context of driving the HD800.) I’ve auditioned the HD800 on some expensive rigs, and though I don’t trust my aural memory a lick, I’m inclined to say, this combo (though far from perfect) competes with some of the bigger boys. So, if you’re on a budget, don’t fret! Nowadays, you have some really impressive options.


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks for the info!
 There are many people on a tight budget, and not enough talk of budget rigs, so this is very helpful.


----------



## magiccabbage

koiloco said:


> ^ awesome DAC.  I tried it and liked it a lot.  That DAC + a good tube amp + HD800 = sonic heaven.  Hint Hint Hint....


 
 Im on the lookout for a DAC for HD800 / DNA Stratus - I might consider this but i'll have to wait for the YGG to come out as well.


----------



## kothganesh

I started with some random A/Bing of HPs today and honed in on the following set-ups:
  
 1. Gungnir -->BH Crack w/SB --> HD 800
 2. Gungnir --> KGSShv --> Stax SR 007 mk1
  
 I did this for an hour or so only with the same tracks but the only problem I see with my experimenting is with the volume levels on two different amps. I was simply blown away with combo 1. Larger soundstage (no surprise), better detail (noticeable) and actually deeper bass on some of the tracks where I expected the 007 to go deeper. I need to go back and do this for 3-4 hours during the weekend but this is what my ears are telling me.


----------



## James-uk

kothganesh said:


> I started with some random A/Bing of HPs today and honed in on the following set-ups:
> 
> 1. Gungnir -->BH Crack w/SB --> HD 800
> 2. Gungnir --> KGSShv --> Stax SR 007 mk1
> ...




This is good to know . I've never had the chance to listen to e stat headphones but from what I've read I think the 007 km 1 would be to my taste. I'm really happy with my dynamic rig so I'm done with any upgrades to it. The only way to go now is down the stax path but anything that convinces me otherwise is good for my wallet . I look forward to more comparisons , would you say the 007 is tonally similar to HD800? What are the most noticeable differences in the sound?


----------



## pearljam50000

Seems that the 009 is the only headphone that beats the HD800.
But still i wouldn't give up body of sound for a litle more detail.
I never heard the 009 , but this is my conclusion from reading comparisons on head fi.


----------



## James-uk

pearljam50000 said:


> Seems that the 009 is the only headphone that beats the HD800.
> But still i wouldn't give up body of sound for a litle more detail.
> I never heard the 009 , but this is my conclusion from reading comparisons on head fi.




I agree, it also sounds like it's a bit brighter than the HD800 and that's as bright as I would ever go . I tend to gravitate toward a slightly warm sound which is why I really enjoy the HD600 . I think my ultimate headphone judging from descriptions and measurements would be the HE90.


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> Seems that the 009 is the only headphone that beats the HD800.
> But still i wouldn't give up body of sound for a litle more detail.
> I never heard the 009 , but this is my conclusion from reading comparisons on head fi.


 
  
 I've heard it the other way around before as well with SR-009 having more punch than HD800. Depends on who you ask and personal preference. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions without hearing it…although I probably won't try it unless I for sure had 10k set aside for headphones at that moment. 
  
 So far the HD800 has been by favourite and top performer under $2000. I would hate to try the 007 and 009 and like it more and not be able to upgrade for awhile. Although for a lot of people it's beneficial as then it gives you a reason to save up for and look forward to. I've done this numerous times, although the SR-009 is a freak of a jump overall in investment compared to other phones.


----------



## Jodet

zoom25 said:


> I've heard it the other way around before as well with SR-009 having more punch than HD800. Depends on who you ask and personal preference. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions without hearing it…although I probably won't try it unless I for sure had 10k set aside for headphones at that moment.
> 
> So far the HD800 has been by favourite and top performer under $2000. I would hate to try the 007 and 009 and like it more and not be able to upgrade for awhile. Although for a lot of people it's beneficial as then it gives you a reason to save up for and look forward to. I've done this numerous times, although the SR-009 is a freak of a jump overall in investment compared to other phones.


 
  
  
 My nightmare:   I pay upwards of five grand for a pair or SR-009's and amplification.  
  
 And still prefer my HD800's with a good tube amp.


----------



## Zoom25

jodet said:


> My nightmare:   I pay upwards of five grand for a pair or SR-009's and amplification.
> 
> And still prefer my HD800's with a good tube amp.


 
  
 Buy used, sell used. Minimum loss. Take that money and pimp your HD800 or invest in monitors/speakers.


----------



## James-uk

jodet said:


> My nightmare:   I pay upwards of five grand for a pair or SR-009's and amplification.
> 
> And still prefer my HD800's with a good tube amp.




Tell me about it! It would make for a very expensive paperweight! The other thing that worried me about electrostats is reliability . I hear to much talk of channel imbalance and blown driver. The HD800 is built so well and the drivers are so perfect that I can imagine them still going strong a long time after I'm dead and buried.


----------



## Zoom25

I wonder if there is a HD900 is works. They spent like 5 years working on the HD800. Although at the moment they don't have really have much reason in releasing it considering how well the HD800 continues to sell today with no real threat by other manufacturers.
  
 If there was indeed a HD900 in the works, what physical changes would you like to see to further improve upon the HD800?


----------



## listen4joy

i listen to one of my favorite songs in youtube with my new  hd800 and i most consider i still dont have any amp or dac (on the way).
  
 LUCIO DALLA @ CARUSO
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2VRd8EtYzM
  
 Lara Fabian -Caruso 
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zghquyoOZ0
  
 Just terrific , awasome i love how this headphone built so good and designed so well
 sound fabulous.
  
 damn god.


----------



## Bartez75

zoom25 said:


> I wonder if there is a HD900 is works. They spent like 5 years working on the HD800. Although at the moment they don't have really have much reason in releasing it considering how well the HD800 continues to sell today with no real threat by other manufacturers.
> 
> If there was indeed a HD900 in the works, what physical changes would you like to see to further improve upon the HD800?


 
  
 I think they will call it HD1000 or maybe not so it will not be mixed with AKG1000


----------



## pearljam50000

lol
Anyways the HD800's soundstage is better than the 009's, and everyone agrees on that and its the very important to me, i want headphones that sounds as close as possible to speakers.


----------



## Sonido

To me the big thing the SR-009 had over the HD800 was a sweeter, more natural and organic tonality. Other than that, I'd say the HD800 was even superior in details. This was comparing HD800 with GS-X mk2 vs SR-009 on BHSE at the HeadAmp table.


----------



## ubs28

pearljam50000 said:


> lol
> Anyways the HD800's soundstage is better than the 009's, and everyone agrees on that and its the very important to me, i want headphones that sounds as close as possible to speakers.


 
 I don't own the HD800, but I have heard it on a good setup and I have also listened to high-end speakers costing multiples of the HD800. To my ears the soundstage of the HD800 was bigger than those high end speakers. I thought the soundstage of the speakers was more realistic.


----------



## JMcMasterJ

kothganesh said:


> I started with some random A/Bing of HPs today and honed in on the following set-ups:
> 
> 1. Gungnir -->BH Crack w/SB --> HD 800
> 2. Gungnir --> KGSShv --> Stax SR 007 mk1
> ...




I agree. I think the 007 has an advantage in tone and non-fatiguing sound, but the HD800 does better in technicalities. It's nice to own both!


----------



## Maxvla

bartez75 said:


> I think they will call it HD1000 or maybe not so it will not be mixed with AKG1000



There is already an HD1000, the Charleston.


----------



## James-uk

jmcmasterj said:


> I agree. I think the 007 has an advantage in tone and non-fatiguing sound, but the HD800 does better in technicalities. It's nice to own both!




If you had to keep one which would it be?


----------



## JMcMasterJ

james-uk said:


> If you had to keep one which would it be?


 
  
 I've alternated between the two, but I currently own the HD800. I think they are different enough to justify owning both. I probably wouldn't own both the HD800 and 009.


----------



## Chodi

I have the HD800's and I have auditioned the 007's in my home. To me they sound nothing alike. The 007's are much darker sounding (some would call it warm). I really see no comparison between the two. I can see why some would like the 007's over the HD800 but not me. I was ready to keep them but I kept the HD800's as I felt that for classical music there was no contest the HD800's were superior in every respect. I did not try the 009 as it was out of my price range.


----------



## MacedonianHero

zoom25 said:


> I wonder if there is a HD900 is works. They spent like 5 years working on the HD800. Although at the moment they don't have really have much reason in releasing it considering how well the HD800 continues to sell today with no real threat by other manufacturers.
> 
> If there was indeed a HD900 in the works, what physical changes would you like to see to further improve upon the HD800?


 
 Well, I'm lucky to have all three headphones here (SR-007Mk1, SR-009, HD800) and I love all three. In terms of details, I'd easily rank them SR-009 >> HD800 > SR-007Mk1. In terms of soundstaging: HD800>SR-009>SR-007Mk1. But in terms of my overall preferences when all things are said and done, I'd rank them: SR-009 > SR-007Mk1 > HD800s. With the LCD-X's, the HD800s are easily my favourite dynamic headphones and truly end game headphones.


----------



## SilverEars

Just compared D2's HPO and DAC2.  DAC2's HPO is really a bad match for HD800.  It sounds flat lacking dynamics and stage, and it doesn't push the HD800 to push out details like the Hugo. Normally, HD800 should sound spacious, but with DAC2, it's pretty flat, so I'm puzzled. It's the most harsh sound I've experienced with the HD800 preventing raising the volume up for dynamics if there are any.  It's worse than Hugo with the HD800.  But, with iems, DAC2 performs better than the D2 and Hugo, it's sounds very accurate and real with iems.  D2 sounds dry with iems, but not with HD800. Possibly, it needs to be be dry at a more sensitive level to be detailed with less sensitive headphones like the HD800.  I'm noticing a trend of integrated DAC/Amp with high resolution with iems, but not so with HD800(Hugo and DAC2 being in that trend).  I'm guessing you can't match both iems and HD800 at the same time with the same amp.  
  
 I personally think the D2 is the best integrated DAC/Amp I've heard with the HD800.  Possibly, the DAC2 needs an amp that can push out the resolution better than the built in amp.


----------



## SilverEars

silverears said:


> Just compared D2's HPO and DAC2.  DAC2's HPO is really a bad match for HD800.  It sounds flat lacking dynamics and stage, and it doesn't push the HD800 to push out details like the Hugo. Normally, HD800 should sound spacious, but with DAC2, it's pretty flat, so I'm puzzled. It's the most harsh sound I've experienced with the HD800 preventing raising the volume up for dynamics if there are any.  It's worse than Hugo with the HD800.  But, with iems, DAC2 performs better than the D2 and Hugo, it's sounds very accurate and real with iems.  D2 sounds dry with iems, but not with HD800. Possibly, it needs to be be dry at a more sensitive level to be detailed with less sensitive headphones like the HD800.  I'm noticing a trend of integrated DAC/Amp with high resolution with iems, but not so with HD800(Hugo and DAC2 being in that trend).  I'm guessing you can't match both iems and HD800 at the same time with the same amp.
> 
> I personally think the D2 is the best integrated DAC/Amp I've heard with the HD800.  Possibly, the DAC2 needs an amp that can push out the resolution better than the built in amp.


 
 Actually, I may not have the right gain set on the DAC2.  Overall volume from 2'OC to max doesn't change, but it sound like it's pushing details that were subtle at 2'OC.  Like I said earlier, there is a difference between D2 and DAC2's details.  D2 is dry so it puts out bold treble(gives perception of details, but would reduce accuracy or realism), but the DAC2 has more of a palette to it's treble so the treble spectrum seems continuous vs D2 being a bit discontinuous.  This creates more accuracy in the sound.  Hugo has a discontinuous treble to mids if you listen from HD800, but not with iems.
  
 Anyway, comparisons are subjective, and I am changing my opinion it seems, but with more listen I think I will have a more definite conclusion if the DAC2 is better sounding to me.  Right now with volume at the right level, DAC2 HPO does indeed put out the details that needs to be picked up.  I know it is indeed very resolving because my CIEM sound like cans with it.  No other DACs has done that with my CIEM.  I always figured iems were limited in performace to cans, but it's getting really close with the DAC2 HPO.
  
 DAC2 is the harshest of all, and if this reduce this and retain the details, it would be much of an improvement.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

macedonianhero said:


> Well, I'm lucky to have all three headphones here (SR-007Mk1, SR-009, HD800) and I love all three. In terms of details, I'd easily rank them SR-009 >> HD800 > SR-007Mk1. In terms of soundstaging: HD800>SR-009>SR-007Mk1. But in terms of my overall preferences when all things are said and done, I'd rank them: SR-009 > SR-007Mk1 > HD800s. With the LCD-X's, the HD800s are easily my favourite dynamic headphones and truly end game headphones.


 
  
 Ugh...
  
 It's comments like that that make me want to sell everything and start over.  My wallet hates you and your headphones


----------



## Maxvla

Then there are counter arguments like mine that prefer HD800s over SR-007 and SR-009 and you feel fine with what you have.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

maxvla said:


> Then there are counter arguments like mine that prefer HD800s over SR-007 and SR-009 and you feel fine with what you have.


 
  
 I actually love my rig.  I'm listening now and it really is great.  BUT the top shelf Stax have a certain allure or mystique.  Fortunately, I have never heard them.


----------



## screwdriver

Man im lucky to own both the lcd-x and sennheiser hd800 - excellent cans both of them .


----------



## purrin

bigfatpaulie said:


> Ugh...
> 
> It's comments like that that make me want to sell everything and start over.  My wallet hates you and your headphones


 
  
 What's wrong with your Lampi + Stratus + HD800? As a system, that's one of the best you can put together. Sort of 1+1+1 = 5. I'd take that setup over any STAX. I owned 009 and 007s once- with DIY T2, Electra amps. Every now and then, I'm tempted to grab the 009 again. That is until I listen to an 009 at a meet. Then I'm no longer tempted.


----------



## MacedonianHero

bigfatpaulie said:


> Ugh...
> 
> It's comments like that that make me want to sell everything and start over.  My wallet hates you and your headphones


 
 Sorry mate...but having all three here have lead me to my conclusions. I gotta admit after hearing the Stax headphones at meets I wasn't very enthralled. But after I got them home and had many months to get to know them (and get appropriate upfront gear) and compare them with the HD800s, I've come to that conclusion. But again, not to take anything away from the HD800s as they are in my top 4 of all time (with the LCD-X). Your setup is certainly endgame IMHO.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

purrin said:


> What's wrong with your Lampi + Stratus + HD800? As a system, that's one of the best you can put together. Sort of 1+1+1 = 5. I'd take that setup over any STAX. I owned 009 and 007s once- with DIY T2, Electra amps. Every now and then, I'm tempted to grab the 009 again. That is until I listen to an 009 at a meet. Then I'm no longer tempted.


 
  
 NOTHING.  OMG.  NOTHING.  It's incredible.  Especially with the Berkeley Alpha USB->SPDIF in front of the Lampi.  I'm totally satisfied.  I really need to hear the 009's for myself.  In my head they are leaps and bounds better but in reality it is probably a very close race.  It's more just curiosity I suppose than anything.  
  
 Plus, it is was an opportunity to bug Peter


----------



## icebear

zoom25 said:


> I wonder if there is a HD900 is works. They spent like 5 years working on the HD800. Although at the moment they don't have really have much reason in releasing it considering how well the HD800 continues to sell today with no real threat by other manufacturers.
> 
> If there was indeed a HD900 in the works, what physical changes would you like to see to further improve upon the HD800?


 
  
 I guess there will be a HD850 in between, they'll have to take it easy and not going all the way.
  
 From my point of ear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the HD800 is already the pinnacle of dynamic driver headphones - or pretty darn close to it. If there is something to critique I'd usually blame the set up (source first) but not the headphone. I haven't had a chance to hear an Orpheus but I heard a SR009/BHSE combination at the NY Spring meet. The 'stat is a fraction faster than the ring radiator in the HD800. The music seems airier, lighter, effortless, out of no where, whatever you might call it. But the very important point of sound stage (see below by pj50000) is no contest. The HD800 holds down every other headphone with ease.
  
 I heard various Audeze, the SR009 and the Abyss and all of them give me the "inside the head" illusion of the sound source and this is a no go for me. So if Sennheiser would be able to create a 'stat with the same sound stage characteristics they were able to achieve with the HD800, that would be headphone nirvana, the HD-Orpheus ?
  
 Maybe in a secret lab these phones exist already but they won't be released, simply because ... what comes after that?
  


pearljam50000 said:


> lol
> Anyways the HD800's soundstage is better than the 009's, and everyone agrees on that and its the very important to me, i want headphones that sounds as close as possible to speakers.


----------



## MacedonianHero

bigfatpaulie said:


> NOTHING.  OMG.  NOTHING.  It's incredible.  Especially with the Berkeley Alpha USB->SPDIF in front of the Lampi.  I'm totally satisfied.  I really need to hear the 009's for myself.  In my head they are leaps and bounds better but in reality it is probably a very close race.  It's more just curiosity I suppose than anything.
> 
> Plus, it is was an opportunity to bug Peter


 
  
 Just noticed you're in Toronto too...you're welcome to swing by sometime.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

macedonianhero said:


> Sorry mate...but having all three here have lead me to my conclusions. I gotta admit after hearing the Stax headphones at meets I wasn't very enthralled. But after I got them home and had many months to get to know them (and get appropriate upfront gear) and compare them with the HD800s, I've come to that conclusion. But again, not to take anything away from the HD800s as they are in my top 4 of all time (with the LCD-X). Your setup is certainly endgame IMHO.


 
  
 Fair enough.  Perhaps one day I will get to hear them and draw my own conclusions.  
  
 It wasn't a knock at my rig, more a comment of admiration for yours.  All the best.


----------



## MacedonianHero

bigfatpaulie said:


> Fair enough.  Perhaps one day I will get to hear them and draw my own conclusions.
> 
> It wasn't a knock at my rig, more a comment of admiration for yours.  All the best.


 
 Just let me know.


----------



## SilverEars

icebear said:


> I guess there will be a HD850 in between, they'll have to take it easy and not going all the way.


 
 I'm waiting for the 850.  I'm a 650 guy.  I want the same resolution and stage of the 800 with more body and warmer tonality with reduced harshness.  I know people here are trying to achieve that with colored amps, and I prefer the headphone to have this characteristic if possible.  Maybe all this criteria cannot coexist.  Possibly compromise has to be made if you want high resolution.


----------



## 62ohm

macedonianhero said:


> bigfatpaulie said:
> 
> 
> > Ugh...
> ...


 
  
 What about mine? What do you think about my setup, is it end-game worthy or do I still have a long road ahead of me?


----------



## Maxvla

Only you can decide that. Don't let others dictate your enjoyment.


----------



## MacedonianHero

62ohm said:


> What about mine? What do you think about my setup, is it end-game worthy or do I still have a long road ahead of me?


 
 I love the HD800s (so you're set there), but I haven't heard the Sennheiser amp so it's hard to comment much. A good friend (Frank I) liked it very much though. I might however look into your DAC situation sometime in the future. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But the Benchmark DAC1 is still very respectable IMO.


----------



## MacedonianHero

maxvla said:


> Only you can decide that. Don't let others dictate your enjoyment.


 
  ^ This too.


----------



## SilverEars

I upped the gain on the DAC2.  Yup, it's the most accurate I've heard on the HD800.  I hear everything.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's the most accurate treble(besides a bit of harshness that the 800 is known for) I've heard in my listening career(which is not that long). 
  
 Like people has said before, I believe in chip implementation now.  D2 and DAC2 both have ES9018, yet there are differences.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

macedonianhero said:


> Just let me know.


 
  
 With a wince I may take you up on that generous offer.  I have been itching to hear the 009's.  But what can I offer you in return


----------



## MacedonianHero

bigfatpaulie said:


> With a wince I may take you up on that generous offer.  I have been itching to hear the 009's.  But what can I offer you in return


 
  
 I'd love to hear that Stratus with the HD800s.


----------



## SP Wild

silverears said:


> I'm waiting for the 850.  I'm a 650 guy.  I want the same resolution and stage of the 800 with more body and warmer tonality with reduced harshness.  I know people here are trying to achieve that with colored amps, and I prefer the headphone to have this characteristic if possible.  Maybe all this criteria cannot coexist.  Possibly compromise has to be made if you want high resolution.


 

  I wouldn't purchase a headphone with a cup design in the ilk of K701/HD800/HD700/SonySA5000 if you're after a 650 style sound...you look for another headphone with the same chassis type.  If the HD850 was less bright than the HD800 but based of the same platform it wouldn't interest me.  But a newly desgned cup in the 650/HE60/HE90 type reverbation techniques would definately interest me.  Yeah...I kinda imagined how the Oppo would sound based on how the cups looked and figured itd be a 650 style sound.


----------



## 62ohm

maxvla said:


> Only you can decide that. Don't let others dictate your enjoyment.


 
  
 I'm just looking to get some other's perspective on the matter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


macedonianhero said:


> 62ohm said:
> 
> 
> > What about mine? What do you think about my setup, is it end-game worthy or do I still have a long road ahead of me?
> ...


 
  
 Well I've been looking at Benchmark DAC2 HGC for some time now. But because I stumbled on an unbelievable deal for the DAC1-USB ($785 USD new, usually costs $1,450 USD new here), I guess I would take it as a means to an end until I can get either the NAD M51 or the DAC2 HGC.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

maxvla said:


> Only you can decide that. Don't let others dictate your enjoyment.


 
  
 Don't miss-interpret me. I love my rig.  But there is _probably_ always room for improvement.  I think going Stax would limit the versatility of the 800 + LCD3 combo.  Together there really is nothing they can't handle.  I am waiting for an MSB Analog DAC to audition and the end rig would just need a Master 9 as an SS option and it really would be (IMHO) the bees knees of dynamic headphones.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

macedonianhero said:


> I'd love to hear that Stratus with the HD800s.


 
  
 Oh I think we can work something out   But it is my bed time.  I'll send you a PM in the AM.


----------



## MacedonianHero

62ohm said:


> I'm just looking to get some other's perspective on the matter
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Between the NAD M51 and DAC2HGC, I'd go with the NAD DAC. The DAC2 suffers from the Sabre upper mids shoutiness to my ears.


----------



## SilverEars

sp wild said:


> I wouldn't purchase a headphone with a cup design in the ilk of K701/HD800/HD700/SonySA5000 if you're after a 650 style sound...you look for another headphone with the same chassis type.  If the HD850 was less bright than the HD800 but based of the same platform it wouldn't interest me.  But a newly desgned cup in the 650/HE60/HE90 type reverbation techniques would definately interest me.  Yeah...I kinda imagined how the Oppo would sound based on how the cups looked and figured itd be a 650 style sound.


 
 Good point, they do share similarities, although the 800 has less distortion, the K701's graph resembled the 800's. The volume of the inner space has parallel between the phones.  But, the 600 and the 650 had the same body, yet had differences in signature.  It's pretty definite 800 is bright in nature.  It has the 5-6k harshness felt especially with vocals.  I've paired it with enough sources to have a general idea of it's characteristic without added color.  The DAC2 is very tight sounding, probably the output impedance creating very high damping factor, but at the same time the bass is not the undamped loose bass that some here may prefer here.  The damped bass is perfect for more accurate recording such as classical.  
  
 Anway, I believe in DAC2's measurements(it is indeed very accurate sonically) and it doesn't sound like what I expected of the ES9018.  Typically I hear bold or dry treble, but it's fine treble like the Hugo, but Hugo still lacks the raw accuracy, it's a bit laid back possibly for more relaxed listens, and for this you get a sense sound is not real like the DAC2.


----------



## drez

bigfatpaulie said:


> Don't miss-interpret me. I love my rig.  But there is _probably_ always room for improvement.  I think going Stax would limit the versatility of the 800 + LCD3 combo.  Together there really is nothing they can't handle.  I am waiting for an MSB Analog DAC to audition and the end rig would just need a Master 9 as an SS option and it really would be (IMHO) the bees knees of dynamic headphones.


 
  
 I think after a certain point there is more sidegrade than upgrade, which is my excuse for sticking with my DAC and amplifier and upgrading everything else.  (Well my DAC could be better but I don't fancy the price of better DAC's.)
  
 Things like cabling, vibration, computer, wall power, (possibly) USB transport all contribute IMO.  HD800's are definitely not a bottleneck.  Master 9 is on my list also (I have Master 6 which is excellent).


----------



## kothganesh

zoom25 said:


> Buy used, sell used. Minimum loss. Take that money and pimp your HD800 or invest in monitors/speakers.


 
 +1. I traded for the 009 with my LCD-3. Man, its good to pay less...always


----------



## kothganesh

macedonianhero said:


> Well, I'm lucky to have all three headphones here (SR-007Mk1, SR-009, HD800) and I love all three. In terms of details, I'd easily rank them SR-009 >> HD800 > SR-007Mk1. In terms of soundstaging: HD800>SR-009>SR-007Mk1. But in terms of my overall preferences when all things are said and done, I'd rank them: SR-009 > SR-007Mk1 > HD800s. With the LCD-X's, the HD800s are easily my favourite dynamic headphones and truly end game headphones.


 
 Peter,
  
 I'm catching up with you. I should have the 009s next week. Have the other two already. As usual, you're insight is always something I value. So good times overall. One thing I am curious is this: I have read the reviews on the GS-X mk2. I own the BH Crack and it makes for a very good combo with the 800. So, I wonder which of the two amps is preferred by people here that have had an opportunity to listen to both. 
  
 Thanks


----------



## SP Wild

silverears said:


> Good point, they do share similarities, although the 800 has less distortion, the K701's graph resembled the 800's. The volume of the inner space has parallel between the phones.  But, the 600 and the 650 had the same body, yet had differences in signature.  It's pretty definite 800 is bright in nature.  It has the 5-6k harshness felt especially with vocals.  I've paired it with enough sources to have a general idea of it's characteristic without added color.  The DAC2 is very tight sounding, probably the output impedance creating very high damping factor, but at the same time the bass is not the undamped loose bass that some here may prefer here.  The damped bass is perfect for more accurate recording such as classical.
> 
> Anway, I believe in DAC2's measurements(it is indeed very accurate sonically) and it doesn't sound like what I expected of the ES9018.  Typically I hear bold or dry treble, but it's fine treble like the Hugo, but Hugo still lacks the raw accuracy, it's a bit laid back possibly for more relaxed listens, and for this you get a sense sound is not real like the DAC2.


 

  I have noticed big changes in bass tightness with damping factor and loudspeakers...I can't say I've noticed as dramatic a change with headphones which leads me to believe damping factor is not a large of a problem with headphones as they are with speakers.
  
 You can plug a headphone into a mic jack and use it as a microphone....basically when the membrane moves it creates a voltage that feeds back into the amplifier...hence a reactionary load.  But if we look at the movement and voltage generation capability of movement between a tiny headphone speaker and speaker bass drivers....there is a lot less to overcome with headphone speakers backfire voltage.


----------



## Bartez75

maxvla said:


> There is already an HD1000, the Charleston.


 

 I didn't know that. Thanks for info.
 Time will tell what will it be. Perhaps Sennheiser will make a top class closed back headphone as an answer to LCD-XC?


----------



## James-uk

icebear said:


> I guess there will be a HD850 in between, they'll have to take it easy and not going all the way.
> 
> From my point of ear  the HD800 is already the pinnacle of dynamic driver headphones - or pretty darn close to it. If there is something to critique I'd usually blame the set up (source first) but not the headphone. I haven't had a chance to hear an Orpheus but I heard a SR009/BHSE combination at the NY Spring meet. The 'stat is a fraction faster than the ring radiator in the HD800. The music seems airier, lighter, effortless, out of no where, whatever you might call it. But the very important point of sound stage (see below by pj50000) is no contest. The HD800 holds down every other headphone with ease.
> 
> ...




I often read that the stats are faster but objectively I look at CSDs and impulse response etc and the HD800 is as 'quick' as sr009 if not quicker . I wonder what else is at play here to give this sense of the stats being faster? Or am I interpreting the data wrong?


----------



## SP Wild

Yeah CSDs give no information on attack.


----------



## preproman

bigfatpaulie said:


> NOTHING.  OMG.  NOTHING.  It's incredible.  Especially with the *Berkeley Alpha USB->SPDIF in front of the Lampi.*  I'm totally satisfied.  I really need to hear the 009's for myself.  In my head they are leaps and bounds better but in reality it is probably a very close race.  It's more just curiosity I suppose than anything.
> 
> Plus, it is was an opportunity to bug Peter


 
  
 My HD800 rig is still a work in progress as I await my amp.  It will ultimately resemble yours (a little).


----------



## James-uk

No but it does show decay , impulse response shows attack and both these readings are slightly quicker on HD800. I know it's only a couple of factors but what else should I look at when trying to quantify these things. The reason I'm pondering is because if I was ever to buy stax I would have to buy without audition so I need to get my head around all the facts / opinions.


----------



## SP Wild

james-uk said:


> No but it does show decay , impulse response shows attack and both these readings are slightly quicker on HD800. I know it's only a couple of factors but what else should I look at when trying to quantify these things. The reason I'm pondering is because if I was ever to buy stax I would have to buy without audition so I need to get my head around all the facts / opinions.


 
  
 The impulse reponse shows decay only as well.  If you want to go by impulse response just buy the Porta Pros....if that is the speed measurement, the Porta Pros is faster than everything else.  Wipes the floor with the 009.
  
 There is only one measurement that accurately measures the entire speed envelope of a mechanical trandsucer system.  _*Slew Rate*_.  Looking at the 300 hz slew rates...I definately would prefer the mids on the HD800 over the 009s...and I know the HD800s can do a good snare drum and I can only correlate the dynamics of the snare drum and mids I like to the 300hz squares.


----------



## James-uk

sp wild said:


> The impulse reponse shows decay only as well.  If you want to go by impulse response just buy the Porta Pros....if that is the speed measurement, the Porta Pros is faster than everything else.  Wipes the floor with the 009.
> 
> There is only one measurement that accurately measures the entire speed envelope of a mechanical trandsucer system.  _*Slew Rate*_.  Looking at the 300 hz slew rates...I definately would prefer the mids on the HD800 over the 009s...and I know the HD800s can do a good snare drum and I can only correlate the dynamics of the snare drum and mids I like to the 300hz squares.




Everyday is a school day. Thanks for the info. So what do you think accounts for the speed people talk of when comparing stats to HD800. Does it come down to their ability at higher frequency slew rates do you think?


----------



## whirlwind

bigfatpaulie said:


> macedonianhero said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I'm lucky to have all three headphones here (SR-007Mk1, SR-009, HD800) and I love all three. In terms of details, I'd easily rank them SR-009 >> HD800 > SR-007Mk1. In terms of soundstaging: HD800>SR-009>SR-007Mk1. But in terms of my overall preferences when all things are said and done, I'd rank them: SR-009 > SR-007Mk1 > HD800s. With the LCD-X's, the HD800s are easily my favourite dynamic headphones and truly end game headphones.
> ...


 
 Ha ha....dude....your rig is amazing
  


macedonianhero said:


> bigfatpaulie said:
> 
> 
> > Ugh...
> ...


 
 MH you are one of the most fortunate head-fiers ever  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 To have all of that awsome gear to listening too.
  
 I have never been in a happier place, sound wise.....and I am just using   PS Audio Nuwave > Mad Ear +HD > HD800 and I really believe this is good enough to be end game for me....and thats some pretty moderate equipment around these parts  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am thinking of maybe grabbing an OTL amp from Glenn.....still kicking that one around.
  
 Anyway....MH.....kudos to you, sir.


----------



## SP Wild

james-uk said:


> Everyday is a school day. Thanks for the info. So what do you think accounts for the speed people talk of when comparing stats to HD800. Does it come down to their ability at higher frequency slew rates do you think?


 
  
 I believe so.  But unfortunately, as Tyll has stated many times, measurements up high are inacurrate.
  
 I also just noticed that the tops of the 300hz square is indeed the impulse wave imprinted on it and combined with a slope.  Also I just realised, you know what gives a givolunormous sound stage....an out of phase speaker.  Planars...always with a slightly smaller soundstage than the HD800 are absolute phase correct...something the speaker world pays big bucks for, complex crossovers to introduce phase correction shifts in different frequencies.
  
 If we turn the electrical phase graph 90 degrees clockwise....we now have a graph depicting the sequence of arrival time for each frequency as it hits your hears.  The treble hits you first, 2nd is bass and last comes mids.  Most people with speakers will have the treble hit first when placed at recommended height.  Because phase degrees is equal to time delay....you learn that fiddling with subwoofers, no?  I didn't either.
  
 Something to think about.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

preproman said:


> My HD800 rig is still a work in progress as I await my amp.  It will ultimately resemble yours (a little).


 
  
 Where are you looking to go with you rig?  It's pretty exceptional as it is!!
  
 When did you pick up the Alpha?  What do you think of it?


----------



## Sorrodje

Great amps are discussed here . The DNA Stratus is highly praised for the HD800 but I rarely see anyone talking about the Sonett 2. Does someone know why ?


----------



## preproman

bigfatpaulie said:


> Where are you looking to go with you rig?  It's pretty exceptional as it is!!
> 
> When did you pick up the Alpha?  What do you think of it?


 
  
 That's it for the HD800 rig.  Just awaiting the amp and then maybe some tube rolling if possible.
  
 I traded my Black Lighting + a little cash for a new Alpha USB.  At the same time I introduced some Cabledyne Silver cables (interconnects).  So don't really know where in the improvements came from, but there were noticeable improvements for sure.


----------



## screwdriver

I have now come to understand how great a headphone the sennheiser hd800 are .
 i typically listen to rock , acoustic , pop , songwriter kind of stuff and the lcdx is excellent  with my rig with almost all music i mentioned . the hd800 is about 50/50 in these area except for acoustic where they are excellent pretty much .
 today i listened to some samples  high res orchestra , chamber and classical music and the hd800 is soo good , i was blown away how different the presentation between the hd800 and lcdx  in this kind of genre .hd800 by a mile  .
  
 Now i might even start listening to orchstra /chamber /classical music -- its that good on the hd800 
 if anyone wants to send me these hi res type  music please dont hesitate LOL
  
 now i know the improtance of owning both  LOL.
  
 ( cpu/jplay/jriver -- nad M51 -- decware csp3 pre amp-- alo studio six-- audeze lcdx and sennheiser hd800)


----------



## SoupRKnowva

sp wild said:


> If we turn the electrical phase graph 90 degrees clockwise....we now have a graph depicting the sequence of arrival time for each frequency as it hits your hears.  The treble hits you first, 2nd is bass and last comes mids.  Most people with speakers will have the treble hit first when placed at recommended height.  Because phase degrees is equal to time delay....you learn that fiddling with subwoofers, no?  I didn't either.
> 
> Something to think about.


 
  
 Im not entirely certain, but as you said, that is electrical phase, not acoustic phase, the two could differ...just pointing out this is not a phase measurement of the driver with a microphone(at least i don't think it is...)


----------



## kazsud

oldskool said:


> Pepper, I hope you have better luck pairing your HD800 with a vintage Marantz than I had. My recapped 2226B sounded...well, gritty. I didn't expect that, since that Marantz paired so well with the HE500s I used to own.
> 
> FWIW, I'm completely blown away by the HD800/Woo WA2 combo.


 
 FWIW here too


----------



## WilCox

I agree that the WA2 is very synergistic with the HD 800.  A match made in heaven!


----------



## BournePerfect

bigfatpaulie said:


> With a wince I may take you up on that generous offer.  I have been itching to hear the 009's.  But what can I offer you in return







macedonianhero said:


> I'd love to hear that Stratus with the HD800s.




Sounds like a win-win. I'd love to hear both of those rigs.

-Daniel


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> That's it for the HD800 rig.  Just awaiting the amp and then maybe some tube rolling if possible.
> 
> I traded my Black Lighting + a little cash for a new Alpha USB.  At the same time I introduced some Cabledyne Silver cables (interconnects).  So don't really know where in the improvements came from, but there were noticeable improvements for sure.


 
 Eh, When did you decide on the Eddie current amp? This is news to my ears (maybe you told me and I forgot)! Have you heard the Stratus? EC 445 vs DNA Stratus - now that would be interesting.


----------



## BournePerfect

I'm sure Marv could give you some Stratus/EC45 comparisons if you ask nicely. I'd wager in a nutshell that the EC is more transparent, dynamic, and throws a much larger ss, with the Stratus being perhaps lusher and more intimate. Tube selection obviously coming in to play.

-Daniel


----------



## MacedonianHero

whirlwind said:


> Ha ha....dude....your rig is amazing
> 
> MH you are one of the most fortunate head-fiers ever
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks man. I honestly think the MAD Ear+HD is a very undervalued amp around here. Can it do Grado's with flair? Sure it can, but it's also a very good amp with the HD800s and T1s.


----------



## SP Wild

souprknowva said:


> Im not entirely certain, but as you said, that is electrical phase, not acoustic phase, the two could differ...just pointing out this is not a phase measurement of the driver with a microphone(at least i don't think it is...)


 
  
 If the electronic phase is altered than the acoustical output will be the same...before the cups might start altering it again....and the ear canal.  The bigger issue is whether these phase differences are audible and passable with a DBT.


----------



## preproman

magiccabbage said:


> Eh, When did you decide on the Eddie current amp? This is news to my ears (maybe you told me and I forgot)! Have you heard the Stratus? EC 445 vs DNA Stratus - now that would be interesting.


 
 Just keeping quiet until I get the amp.  It's all paid for, now the wait is on..


----------



## SilverEars

sp wild said:


> I believe so.  But unfortunately, as Tyll has stated many times, measurements up high are inacurrate.
> 
> I also just noticed that the tops of the 300hz square is indeed the impulse wave imprinted on it and combined with a slope.  Also I just realised, you know what gives a givolunormous sound stage....an out of phase speaker.  Planars...always with a slightly smaller soundstage than the HD800 are absolute phase correct...something the speaker world pays big bucks for, complex crossovers to introduce phase correction shifts in different frequencies.
> 
> ...


 
 Planars do have flat phase response, but I don't see that as the reason for the closed in characteristic since the 800 has wider stage and it's phase variance is only 20 degrees.  I agree that planars have more compressed stage as I've noticed for both HE-6 and LCD2.2.  LCD2.2 has a large area inside, yet still sound compressed in terms of stage.


sp wild said:


> If the electronic phase is altered than the acoustical output will be the same...before the cups might start altering it again....and the ear canal.  The bigger issue is whether these phase differences are audible and passable with a DBT.


 
 Agreed, delays or phase is caused by waved reflecting and arriving later.  The delay from reflections cause a sense of enclosure.  Vrtual surround is done by adjusting the phase of sounds binaurally.


----------



## MattTCG

For my 800's I'm going all in on a NAD m51. These 800's better show me some appreciation for this special purchase.


----------



## philo50

matttcg said:


> For my 800's I'm going all in on a NAD m51. These 800's better show me some appreciation for this special purchase.


 
 good choice....I love mine


----------



## pearljam50000

matttcg said:


> For my 800's I'm going all in on a NAD m51. These 800's better show me some appreciation for this special purchase.


 
 Why did you choose the M51?
 Did you consider the Benchmark DAC2?


----------



## MattTCG

pearljam50000 said:


> Why did you choose the M51?
> Did you consider the Benchmark DAC2?


 
  
 I was able to audition the NAD a few times and was incredibly impressed with the sound and features. Then a kind soul sent me a link to a used like new m51 on Audiogon. The price was too good to pass up.


----------



## longbowbbs

matttcg said:


> pearljam50000 said:
> 
> 
> > Why did you choose the M51?
> ...


 
 I saw that Audiogon post...Nice price!


----------



## preproman

matttcg said:


> I was able to audition the NAD a few times and was incredibly impressed with the sound and features. Then a kind soul sent me a link to a used like new m51 on Audiogon. The price was too good to pass up.


 
  
 Good choice Matt..


----------



## MattTCG

What can I say? I have good taste. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seriously though, can't wait to get this in and start my in home evaluation. Very excited.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^Matt, do you plan on keeping your Bifrost,


----------



## MattTCG

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^Matt, do you plan on keeping your Bifrost,


 
  
 Sold...


----------



## whirlwind

matttcg said:


> pearljam50000 said:
> 
> 
> > Why did you choose the M51?
> ...


 
  
 Congrats. matt.
  
 I got my dac there also!


----------



## LugBug1

Congrats on the NAD Matt, my dream dac!


----------



## Sherwood

I've spent the day listening to the HD-800 against the SR-007 and SR-009.  I think the HD800 handily bests the SR-007 in every aspect save bass impact, and it has a significantly clearer presentation overall.  Great extended highs, and a completely indistinguishable background.  Seriously, music comes up out of nowhere and encircles you.  It's wonderful.  Detail retrieval is better on the HD800, and it's soundstaging is much deeper and crisper.  I love the HD800, and this comparison reminded me of why.
  
 That said, the 009 was in another league in every category except soundstage depth.  Detail retrieval is flawless, pulling material out of the ether and setting it directly in front of the listener (or above, or behind, or off to the side, as needed.)  Bass impact was similar to the 007, which is to say that it was excellent.  Crisp, focused, and very impactful.  I have a handful of electronic tracks with monstrous bass, and the SR-009 plays them back with enough force to rattle your eyes without sacrificing any upper-end detail in the process.  It is surreal.
  
 I think they're also far less choosy about amps than the 007s.  I had a Mjolnir Audio KGSS and a KGST at hand, and while the 007 sounded notably better through the beefier KGST, the 009 didn't seem to mind either way.  I'm using an ECP Audio L2 to drive the HD800s, which is as good an HD800 amp as can be had.  It certainly helps them perform their best, but even with the amp they might not up to the 009s level.


----------



## Maxvla

That's odd, usually people complain about stat bass impact. HD800 has some of the best I've heard short of loudspeakers.


----------



## paradoxper

I think I'd put the 007 and 009 bass impact on the same level as the HD800. The LCD-2's still, to me, have the most.


----------



## BournePerfect

Not to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but it still comes down to the rest of the rig. I tried 3-4 dacs with my HD800/BHA-1, and the sonic differences (especially bass) between dacs was quite significant to my ears, and to my surprise. So like usual most comments need be taken wth a grain of salt-especially in regards to the uber revealing nature of the HD800s and top end Stax. I wish people were more keen to mention the entire rig when commenting on these particular headphones especially-for a better reference point if nothing else. I know I'm mainly preaching to the choir here-but sometimes the obvious needs reiteration.
  
 /endminorrant
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Sherwood

maxvla said:


> That's odd, usually people complain about stat bass impact. HD800 has some of the best I've heard short of loudspeakers.


 
  
 They do complain, but they're wrong to.  Lack of bass impact through electrostatic headphones is one of this hobby's great myths.  When you put enough voltage through them they can really move air.  I think most people just don't have beefy enough amps for the job.


----------



## Sherwood

bourneperfect said:


> Not to
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 My KGST has a loop out, so both rigs were using the same DAC.  I listened through a PWDII fed through an offramp 5, and a Mytek 192 fed through firewire.  The KGSS, KGST, and ECP L2 are balanced only.  I'm willing to agree that different DACs sound different, but the same DAC does not sound different on different amps.
  
 Also my gear is in my profile, if you're so troubled by its omission.


----------



## Asr

sherwood said:


> I think the HD800 handily bests the SR-007 in every aspect save bass impact, and it has a significantly clearer presentation overall.  Great extended highs, and a completely indistinguishable background.  Seriously, music comes up out of nowhere and encircles you.  It's wonderful.  Detail retrieval is better on the HD800, and it's soundstaging is much deeper and crisper.  I love the HD800, and this comparison reminded me of why.


 
  





 !!
  
 I'd personally call it the other way, the OII MKI (on the BHSE, that is) beats the pants off the HD800. I just can't agree with you that detail retrieval is better on the HD800. The OII MKI was on a whole other level compared to the HD800. Everything sounded way more real on the OII, while there was unfortunate fakeness to the sound on the HD800. I even bought the HD800 three times to try it out on different gear and never got any satisfactory results out of it, no matter what it was sourced or amped by (and I tried it on a lot of sources and amps).


----------



## Sherwood

Steve, I think we have different taste   I've never really enjoyed the AD2000, which I know you love above all others, though I really loved the OII out of your BHSE when you owned those.  
  
 For what it's worth, the pairing of HD800 and ECP L2 represents Tyll and Spritzer's favorite dynamic setup, as well.  I can't say that their character is markedly different through this amp than through others, but it is a tremendously good match.


----------



## kothganesh

I ask this question with some trepidation: Anyone out there that owns/tried the Lyr and the BH Crack with the HD 800? Love to hear your insights. Thanks.


----------



## MattTCG

The lyr was not a good paring for me. The BH Crack was quite good.


----------



## Sorrodje

sorrodje said:


> Great amps are discussed here . The DNA Stratus is highly praised for the HD800 but I rarely see anyone talking about the Sonett 2. Does someone know why ?


 
  
 Anyone ?


----------



## kothganesh

matttcg said:


> The lyr was not a good paring for me. The BH Crack was quite good.


 
 Matt, both amps in the past tense? What are you using now?


----------



## Maxvla

sherwood said:


> They do complain, but they're wrong to.  Lack of bass impact through electrostatic headphones is one of this hobby's great myths.  When you put enough voltage through them they can really move air.  I think most people just don't have beefy enough amps for the job.



Well, I've heard them through the best, short of a T2, and they don't compare.


----------



## MattTCG

kothganesh said:


> Matt, both amps in the past tense? What are you using now?


 
  
 The lyr I sold about two weeks ago but did give it a good go with the 800. The Crack I still have and it pairs well with the 800. Nice organic, rich tone. If you feel that the 800 is a bit bright, then the crack will make a nice pairing. Not that it dulls the signature but it will give it that OTL/tube sound. For the money, the crack is a heck of a bargain. Maybe the only thing cheaper would be the Vali.


----------



## Eee Pee

sorrodje said:


> Anyone ?


 
 As an owner of the first Sonnet, I can say this is how it seems to be with Donald's stuff.  I bought mine a fairly long time ago (in this world) based on the few things I read and my own choices, and practically never read another, newer thing about it unless I posted.  There's two ways to look at that.  Happy enough, content enough to more or less not come to Head-Fi because there's no need because one is happy with what they have, or not enough people bought them to have an ongoing conversation about them (Sonnet threads are dead).  The Stratus thread is different in the sense there's tube rolling of various tubes, whereas the Sonnet doesn't have too many choices in that regard.  It never was a flavor of the month type of thing and gets overlooked.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

sorrodje said:


> Anyone ?


 
  
 It's a good question.  I know when I was looking at getting a Sonnet, there was little information and PM'ed anyone I could find that had owned or auditioned one asking for guidance.  I've only ever very positive things about the amp.  I suspect Eee Pee may be correct in that many people who own it just enjoy it in peace and I think is it fairly rare.  I honestly don't know why it is not more popular because the HD800's are so popular and I really don't think there is a better amp out there for them for the money.


----------



## Sorrodje

Thks bigfatpaulie and Eee Pee. 

I'm surprised too that the sonett is so unknown. From what I can hear from mine, I can definitely say that this amp pairs very well with my hd800 and i'm very very VERY happy with the octave+sonett rig but you know the game: I know what I have but can't avoid to ask myself if I could have a noticeably better result with another DAC or amp. So I would be interested about comparisons from other experienced head-fiers.

Moreover, I tried a hd650 on my Sonett/metrum octave rig a few days ago and I was surprisingly impressed by the result!


----------



## Eee Pee

sorrodje said:


> I know what I have but can't avoid to ask myself if I could have a noticeably better result with another DAC or amp.


 
  
 That's the mind game you need to over come.  I'm pretty close.  I have a Sonnet and Mjolnir.  Either or, I'm there mentally where it's hard to believe I will be just that much more happy with something else.  They may not be considered the best, but if I take a step back and stop searching for the last few percent of perfection, and just listen to the music, I'm really happy with what I have.


----------



## 62ohm

eee pee said:


> sorrodje said:
> 
> 
> > I know what I have but can't avoid to ask myself if I could have a noticeably better result with another DAC or amp.
> ...


 
  
 Eee Pee,
  
 How do you find the Mjolnir pairing with HD800? I'm currently really happy with my setup, but I can't shake off the feeling of wanting to add more 'flavor' to my system like getting another amp to have multiple HD800 character ready to be plugged


----------



## Eee Pee

I find it fine.  Good even.  But the DAC I use, and CD player and vinyl set up are all a shade on the dull side to begin with.  The overall tone is good.  I'd say it makes the three out of four Senns I have perform the best they can.  Whether it makes the 800s be the best they can could be talked about for a thousand pages.
  
 And yeah, none of my sources are modern high end stuff by any means so... but all are enjoyable.
  
 I wouldn't choose a Mjolnir to add flavor.  It's close to nothing.  It has drive and bite.  And does it as if it should be that way always.  Good schiit.


----------



## 62ohm

eee pee said:


> I find it fine.  Good even.  But the DAC I use, and CD player and vinyl set up are all a shade on the dull side to begin with.  The overall tone is good.  I'd say it makes the three out of four Senns I have perform the best they can.  Whether it makes the 800s be the best they can could be talked about for a thousand pages.
> 
> And yeah, none of my sources are modern high end stuff by any means so... but all are enjoyable.
> 
> I wouldn't choose a Mjolnir to add flavor.  It's close to nothing.  It has drive and bite.  And does it as if it should be that way always.  Good schiit.


 
  
 So do you think the Mjolnir is a better pairing with HD700, HD650 and HD600 than HD800? And does it lean more towards the bright side, or warm side? I kept getting mixed response to this question, some says the Mjolnir is bright, and some says its warm...


----------



## paradoxper

You need to pair the Mjolnir with a 'synergistic' DAC - the Gungnir and Mojo is indeed aggressive and a hard combo with the HD800.


----------



## Eee Pee

No way could or would I ever call it warm.  It's either neutral or a super tad bright, but not really.
  
 If the 800 needs the ultimate amp to be the ultimate headphone, then the Mjolnir is not the end piece according to others.
  
 For everything else I have, I'd be surprised if it isn't the end piece.
  
 That's just me though.  You might hear differently.


----------



## Fearless1

paradoxper said:


> You need to pair the Mjolnir with a 'synergistic' DAC - the Gungnir and Mojo is indeed aggressive and a hard combo with the HD800.


 
 +1, Mjolnir/Rega DAC was a good pairing I tried recently.


----------



## SP Wild

silverears said:


> Planars do have flat phase response, but I don't see that as the reason for the closed in characteristic since the 800 has wider stage and it's phase variance is only 20 degrees.  I agree that planars have more compressed stage as I've noticed for both HE-6 and LCD2.2.  LCD2.2 has a large area inside, yet still sound compressed in terms of stage.
> Agreed, delays or phase is caused by waved reflecting and arriving later.  The delay from reflections cause a sense of enclosure.  Vrtual surround is done by adjusting the phase of sounds binaurally.




Here's the thing though. Although the consensus is that magneto planars have a closed in soundstage which the majority would agree, there are a few people that do not agree and cannot agree. I believe some people listen to other areas of sound to determine soundstage other than the soundstage in the treble. For me the soundstage I find important correlates to a flat top 300hz square. Without a flattish top I don't get the soundstage I am after. I hear strangled, constricted sound stage and it correlates precisely with inner fidelity measurements.

Not saying the hd800 isn't king here overall. I have never heard any other headphone with a bigger soundstage bar the k1000.


----------



## kothganesh

paradoxper said:


> You need to pair the Mjolnir with a 'synergistic' DAC - the Gungnir and Mojo is indeed aggressive and a hard combo with the HD800.


 
 +1. Quickly gave up on the G/M stack with the 800...and settled on the Gungnir/BH Crack combo instead. The latter works very well with the 800,IMO.


----------



## OldSkool

No need to pair the HD800 with a Woo WA2. And definitely don't start buying TS5998 tubes. Move along. Nothing to see here.


----------



## purrin

In terms of Schiit amps, Vali or Vahalla 2 work best with HD800s. For Abyss, I prefer Mjolnir. Gungnir is very hard hitting - not good with HD800's 6k peak and overall elevated treble.


----------



## Zoom25

Anyone here made HD800 cables out of Mogami? I use 2549 for my interconnects and absolutely love it. It got me thinking of maybe making HD800 cables out of Mogami wire or even using the same 2549 for it. Although don't know which model would work best for it in terms of gauge?


----------



## reddog

purrin said:


> In terms of Schiit amps, Vali or Vahalla 2 work best with HD800s. For Abyss, I prefer Mjolnir. Gungnir is very hard hitting - not good with HD800's 6k peak and overall elevated treble.



Thanks for describing why the Gungnir is not a good match for the HD800,


----------



## kothganesh

purrin said:


> In terms of Schiit amps, Vali or Vahalla 2 work best with HD800s. For Abyss, I prefer Mjolnir. Gungnir is very hard hitting - not good with HD800's 6k peak and overall elevated treble.



For the 800, do tube amps help reduce the impact of the Gungnir?


----------



## kugino

zoom25 said:


> Anyone here made HD800 cables out of Mogami? I use 2549 for my interconnects and absolutely love it. It got me thinking of maybe making HD800 cables out of Mogami wire or even using the same 2549 for it. Although don't know which model would work best for it in terms of gauge?


 

 i've not used mogami for the hd800 simply because the gauge might be too thick. i ended up using some of the BTG's cables, which are quite thin, to make my hd800 cable and it was a good size.


----------



## jackskelly

This thread really makes me want to buy the HD 800's again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
Very hard to resist...


----------



## Chodi

jackskelly said:


> This thread really makes me want to buy the HD 800's again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You have the Stax 009 so hold onto your wallet......you're fine.


----------



## drez

Haha I could totally live with a STAX 009 here also.  If they were reliable.  And not on backorder.  And cheaper


----------



## lin0003

Just got a M-Stage again and I'm very impressed with what this little thing puts out. Obviously it is not as good as those 1K amps, but it gets pretty close and drives the HD800 very well.


----------



## pearljam50000

I'm considering the M-Stage or Schiit Vali as a budget amp, but i can't decide which one ):


----------



## lin0003

I haven't heard the Vali, but I can't recommend the M-Stage more.


----------



## James-uk

drez said:


> Haha I could totally live with a STAX 009 here also.  If they were reliable.  And not on backorder.  And cheaper




Ha ha the reliability thing is the main reason I've not made the leap to the sr009. If they were as robust as HD800 (talking drivers here) I would of probably pulled the trigger by now. I wouldn't get over pain of having a £3000 headphone go faulty out of warranty! Oh and that's not even thinking of the amp that would also become useless. I will just keep convincing myself that the HD800 is close to the 009 and save that potential pain.


----------



## kothganesh

james-uk said:


> Ha ha the reliability thing is the main reason I've not made the leap to the sr009. If they were as robust as HD800 (talking drivers here) I would of probably pulled the trigger by now. I wouldn't get over pain of having a £3000 headphone go faulty out of warranty! Oh and that's not even thinking of the amp that would also become useless. I will just keep convincing myself that the HD800 is close to the 009 and save that potential pain.


 
 Just got the Stax 009 and listening for the past two hours. Shootout with the 800 this weekend.


----------



## MattTCG

kothganesh said:


> Just got the Stax 009 and listening for the past two hours. Shootout with the 800 this weekend.


 
  
 Wow congrats!! That's a heck of an acquisition. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the two...


----------



## James-uk

kothganesh said:


> Just got the Stax 009 and listening for the past two hours. Shootout with the 800 this weekend.




Nice! Congratulations , being able to compare the 2 best headphones is a very enviable position to be in. I can't think of a much better way to spend a Tuesday  What are your instant thoughts?


----------



## kothganesh

james-uk said:


> Nice! Congratulations , being able to compare the 2 best headphones is a very enviable position to be in. I can't think of a much better way to spend a Tuesday
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


matttcg said:


> Wow congrats!! That's a heck of an acquisition. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the two...


 
 Thanks. Listen guys, this is the 800 thread. I'll be very brief. IMO, transparency, accuracy, extension at both ends, this is as good as it gets. The amp is very good as well (the KGSShv).


----------



## pearljam50000

Is the ODAC good enough for HD800?
I'm considerind ODAC+M-Stage or ODAC+ Vali.
I was considering ODAC/O2 but some said it's not a good combination with HD800.


----------



## SilverEars

pearljam50000 said:


> Is the ODAC good enough for HD800?
> I'm considerind ODAC+M-Stage or ODAC+ Vali.
> I was considering ODAC/O2 but some said it's not a good combination with HD800.


 
 yes.


----------



## James-uk

pearljam50000 said:


> Is the ODAC good enough for HD800?
> I'm considerind ODAC+M-Stage or ODAC+ Vali.
> I was considering ODAC/O2 but some said it's not a good combination with HD800.




I'm currently using the odac with HDVD800 and it sounds amazing. I would say the O2 is more accurate than the HDVD800 amp but I did find the HD800 a tad bright with it and the hdvd800 perfectly neutral. I think it comes down the the output impedance in the senn amp having an effect on the FR. It's very subtle going back and forth between the 2 amps and I've never done a double blind test so take this with a massive pinch of salt. Basically the HDVD800 cost alot more so I WANT it to sound better so it does


----------



## MattTCG

pearljam50000 said:


> Is the ODAC good enough for HD800?
> I'm considerind ODAC+M-Stage or ODAC+ Vali.
> I was considering ODAC/O2 but some said it's not a good combination with HD800.


 
  
 In fairness, I think that the dac often gets overlooked in the chain and may in fact be the most important consideration outside of the headphone itself...especially with a hp like the hd800. 
  
 It's easy for me to make this argument having just bought the m51.


----------



## SilverEars

matttcg said:


> In fairness, I think that the dac often gets overlooked in the chain and may in fact be the most important consideration outside of the headphone itself...especially with a hp like the hd800.
> 
> It's easy for me to make this argument having just bought the m51.


 
 Well, there is no certainty if the very expensive DACs make significant enough difference.  You have a DAC, match it up with amp.  Get another DAC, same amp, and etc..  After using a certain amp and switching the DACs, you find one that does quite well, and think that DAC performs better than others.  How can  you be so certain?  This goes for integrated DACs as well, as there is the analog section there for the headphone port.  
  
 If somebody likes the sound of a certain DAC they like it, I cannot disagree, but certainty of the DAC being suprior is not there.  You find a good match and the setup sounds good, I'm sure it sounds good, but wether the DAC is the best there is, is not certain.


----------



## drdiem

pearljam50000 said:


> Is the ODAC good enough for HD800?
> I'm considerind ODAC+M-Stage or ODAC+ Vali.
> I was considering ODAC/O2 but some said it's not a good combination with HD800.


 
  
 I have the ODAC/M-Stage/HD800 combo and I have to say that after extended listening over the last few months I do not think this setup synergises well. The overall sound (whilst deliciously detailed) is too cold and clinical for my tastes - I just don't get 'carried away on the music' often enough. Yes, I know that the HD800 is at this end of the scale but many many reviewers have pointed out that the HD800 scales extremely well and is also extremely picky about it's amp pairing.
  
 The ODAC is on loan and I'm more familiar with the HRT microStreamer (which 6moons said was on the bright/detailed side) and though I've not directly A/Bed the two DACs my initial impressions is that they're pretty similar in sound signature.
  
 Earlier in this thread I pointed out that the M-Stage is a clone of the Lehmann Black Cube which is the amp Sennheiser used when originally demoing the HD800 (so at least they thought it was a good match). My current opinion though is that the HD800 fares better with a warmer amplifier design. Sennheiser's HDVD600 goes in that direction, and a tube design would typically do so even more, so (though I've never heard it) I'd suggest you favour the Vali over the m-Stage.
  
 Hope this helps, albeit somewhat negatively. Earlier today I read a comparative review of the microStreamer against the Resonessence Labs Herus ($350) which said that the Herus was the warmer DAC.
  
 yan


----------



## Madmollusk

pearljam50000 said:


> Is the ODAC good enough for HD800?
> I'm considerind ODAC+M-Stage or ODAC+ Vali.
> I was considering ODAC/O2 but some said it's not a good combination with HD800.


 
 Some say, the ODAC is on the bright side; if this is true, then don’t expect the Vali to mitigate that brightness, but I’m pretty sure the Matrix M-stage will dampen it a bit. With my present Dac (Peachtree dac it x) and with my previous Dac (music fidelity v-dac mkii), I prefer the Vali for a number of reasons. (My number one reason? An immersive, crystal clear soundstage. Actually, I should say this setup produces a 4-dimensional soundstage, because when I listen to the HD800 time all but evaporates
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) The M-stage, however, beats the Vali in one critical area: it has a “blacker background” and is dead quiet to boot. Unfortunately, the Vali rings a little when you first fire it up. Both amps are impressive with the HD800, but the Vali is only $119


----------



## BournePerfect

pearljam50000 said:


> I'm considering the M-Stage or Schiit Vali as a budget amp, but i can't decide which one ):




In a nutshell the Vali is more detailed, punchy and sounds a titch bright, but still great with the HD800s. The m-Stage is warmer with a larger ss-maybe ever so slightly less transparent with the stock opamp. 

If you're happy with the stock HD800 sound, grab the Vali and save some money. If you're w/ the group that thinks the stock HD800 is too thin and bright-the m-Stage is your budget amp. My .02.

-Daniel


----------



## SilverEars

I get a sense that we're out to suppress the treble with the analog signal path.  I like the stage and cleanliness and the quick response for a dynamic.


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks everyone, very good info 
It really helps when you're on a tight budget of 300$ for a DAC/amp.


----------



## drdiem

bourneperfect said:


> In a nutshell the Vali is more detailed, punchy and sounds a titch bright, but still great with the HD800s. The m-Stage is warmer with a larger ss-maybe ever so slightly less transparent with the stock opamp.
> 
> If you're happy with the stock HD800 sound, grab the Vali and save some money. If you're w/ the group that thinks the stock HD800 is too thin and bright-the m-Stage is your budget amp. My .02.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Well that's me told! If the m-Stage is considered warm for a SS amp then I definitely need me some big tubes to soften up my HD800


----------



## icebear

I do see the need or wish to correct something, when the sound preference is different than what folks are getting from the HD800... but that said : The issue is the source and not the HD800. The headphone is true to the source ... crap in crap out. That is true for the sound quality of the source itself, as well as the music material in the first place. Just because the HD800 is highly regarded by a lot of folks, it doesn't mean it the right choice for everybody. It can easily get you in trouble because it's a long path to get a complete set up that will do justice to the headphones. Trying to patch things up will usually only be a short term solution and not satisfying in the long run.


----------



## BournePerfect

drdiem said:


> Well that's me told! If the m-Stage is considered warm for a SS amp then I definitely need me some big tubes to soften up my HD800


 
  
 Well it's all relative. I'm not sure what other budget amps you've heard, but the stock m-Stage is pretty warm to me-more than others seem to think. Maybe you should check out a Bottlehead Crack next.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## bigfatpaulie

icebear said:


> I do see the need or wish to correct something, when the sound preference is different than what folks are getting from the HD800... but that said : The issue is the source and not the HD800. The headphone is true to the source ... crap in crap out. That is true for the sound quality of the source itself, as well as the music material in the first place. *Just because the HD800 is highly regarded by a lot of folks, it doesn't mean it the right choice for everybody.* It can easily get you in trouble because it's a long path to get a complete set up that will do justice to the headphones. Trying to patch things up will usually only be a short term solution and not satisfying in the long run.


 
  
 I really REALLY agree with this.  Unless the HD800's have some serious gear driving them I feel that there are many far superior choices out there.  However, when they have the right gear backing them they are exceptional.


----------



## Drsparis

bigfatpaulie said:


> I really REALLY agree with this.  Unless the HD800's have some serious gear driving them I feel that there are many far superior choices out there.  However, when they have the right gear backing them they are exceptional.




Am I really alone in thinking that my hd800 even out of say my phone still sounds better than most alternatives? 

Don't get me wrong I usually drive them with a Bryston bha-1 and know that they scale and can sound even better.

Edit: I don't listen to them very loud and thus the trebble is never really an issue for me.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

drsparis said:


> Am I really alone in thinking that my hd800 even out of say my phone still sounds better than most alternatives?
> 
> Don't get me wrong I usually drive them with a Bryston bha-1 and know that they scale and can sound even better.
> 
> Edit: I don't listen to them very loud and thus the trebble is never really an issue for me.


 
  
 To each their own.  Perhaps it's not that the HD800's sound "bad" (out of a phone, or less amp, etc) it's more that other headphones could sound better (for less money).
  
  
 ...
  
  
 ...
  
 IMHO
  
 For example, out of my Bottlehead Crack I much prefer my HD600's to my 800's.


----------



## drez

I think there are possible issues pairing a revealing headphone with keen/analytical DAC like Sabre etc. because to make analytical DAC musical takes very good quality design (and associated equipment) whereas more musical alternatives will sound, well, musical in less expensive implementations and setups.  Sabre can tend to sound a bit flat and bleached in lesser implementations IMO.


----------



## SilverEars

drez said:


> I think there are possible issues pairing a revealing headphone with keen/analytical DAC like Sabre etc. because to make analytical DAC musical takes very good quality design (and associated equipment) whereas more musical alternatives will sound, well, musical in less expensive implementations and setups.  Sabre can tend to sound a bit flat and bleached in lesser implementations IMO.


 
 So much of this here, I got rid of my 800 and not looking back.  Good luck to yall!  Will look for musical lesser setup, enjoy your higher setups and the garbage in and outs.
  
 I was curious of the discussions here and I have a better idea now.


----------



## drdiem

bourneperfect said:


> Well it's all relative. I'm not sure what other budget amps you've heard, but the stock m-Stage is pretty warm to me-more than others seem to think. Maybe you should check out a Bottlehead Crack next.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Yeah you've hit the nail on the head - I've not heard the HD800 through any other amp for more than a couple of minutes! My next challenge is how to get to _audition_ all these 'buy them online and nowhere else' amps (Schiit, Bottlehead, ALO, Woo, etc. etc.) in my home city of Montreal. I'm not the kind of guy to buy something in the full knowledge that it's a trial purchase.


----------



## BournePerfect

drdiem said:


> Yeah you've hit the nail on the head - I've not heard the HD800 through any other amp for more than a couple of minutes! My next challenge is how to get to _audition_ all these 'buy them online and nowhere else' amps (Schiit, Bottlehead, ALO, Woo, etc. etc.) in my home city of Montreal. I'm not the kind of guy to buy something in the full knowledge that it's a trial purchase.




Ime the Vali/mStage are really the best amps for the HD800 under a grand (check my profile). The Crack or Lyr mate pretty well too, but at the expense of some of the Senn's strengths imo. Cost no object in each range I would say:

<$1000: Vali/mStage
$1-2k: Luxman P1u/Bryston BHA-1/Super 7
$2-3k: ZDSE/Stratus
$3k+: ECBA/ LAu

Of course there are plenty of other good picks in these ranges-but ime the mid range (<1k) stuff is lacking as far as the HD800 is concerned. Again-all relative from my experience here. My .02.

-Daniel


----------



## purrin

I wouldn't use any SABRE with HD800.
  
 Wyrd>Modi>Vali>HD800 for a budget setup. At least that's what I would do. I was just using it the other day in fact.
  
 Wyrd provides better quality USB power and reclocks data stream = Modi no longer has lean sound and ends up have more focus and precision


----------



## Maxvla

I would


----------



## zerodeefex

maxvla said:


> I would


 
  
 I have no idea how you do it. I modded my HD800s AND my dynahi was definitely a little less harsh in the treble when stacked against the GSX-MK2 but I still had to get rid of the X-Sabre. I actually think it was a better pairing with the 2A3 MKIV, though.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Im really enjoying the Gungnir with mine. After all the negative things I had read about it with the 800s, I was basically avoiding it, but I am very happy I gave it shot. this is through the Valhalla 2. I think I'm gonna get a Bifrost for myself though so they match


----------



## pearljam50000

Has anoyne compared the HD800 to Genelec 8020/8030?


----------



## reddog

souprknowva said:


> Im really enjoying the Gungnir with mine. After all the negative things I had read about it with the 800s, I was basically avoiding it, but I am very happy I gave it shot. this is through the Valhalla 2. I think I'm gonna get a Bifrost for myself though so they match



Thanks for your feedback on the pairing of the Gungnir and the HD 800. I am planning to get the Gungnir, and it is good to know it can be used with the HD 800.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

reddog said:


> Thanks for your feedback on the pairing of the Gungnir and the HD 800. I am planning to get the Gungnir, and it is good to know it can be used with the HD 800.


 
 Its got some balls thats for sure, but I guess maybe i just like that sound a bunch? I listen to a ton of metal and I love its energy


----------



## soundeffect

bourneperfect said:


> Ime the Vali/mStage are really the best amps for the HD800 under a grand (check my profile). The Crack or Lyr mate pretty well too, but at the expense of some of the Senn's strengths imo. Cost no object in each range I would say:
> 
> <$1000: Vali/mStage
> $1-2k: Luxman P1u/Bryston BHA-1/Super 7
> ...




Is the vali/m stage a overall better match than the lyr or is it just a slight improvement? I'm thinking of getting a $1k-1.5k amp by the end of the year and wondering if I should grab one of those two until I get to it to sell a few headphones for the purchase?


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> Has anoyne compared the HD800 to Genelec 8020/8030?


 
  
 8020 vs 8030 -> 8030 sounds a bit more fuller. Retains the sound signature. Also more upfront and in your face. For some it can be fatiguing. 8040 and 8050 is where I'd personally start though. Bigger drivers usually sound more at ease and fuller, regardless of the volume. The 8000 series in general is well reputable.
  
 HD800 - Very neutral to me and very pleasing without getting in your face. It's my neutral reference I suppose. For your comparison, the bass goes deeper on the HD800 of course.
  
 8020 vs. HD800 - I'll take the HD800
  
 8030 vs. HD800 - Probably still HD800
  
 8040 vs. HD800 - Leaning towards 8040
  
 8050 vs HD800 - I'm taking 8050s each time
  
 The Focal CMS series and the Solo's is a great alternative as well. It might be more pleasing for some.


----------



## 62ohm

soundeffect said:


> bourneperfect said:
> 
> 
> > Ime the Vali/mStage are really the best amps for the HD800 under a grand (check my profile). The Crack or Lyr mate pretty well too, but at the expense of some of the Senn's strengths imo. Cost no object in each range I would say:
> ...


 
  
 Don't overlook the HDVA 600, I actually preferred it to the BHA-1 when I auditioned both but I have to admit I still think about the BHA-1. I'll probably wind up with both of them in my possession eventually.


----------



## soundeffect

Yeah there do seem to be a lot of choices for people who haven't experience or heard most of these recommendation. I've been considering the Sonett 2, CMA800R, and the up coming Ragnarok. Although the Ragnarok will push my budget more. What I really want is the super 7 as it seems to be a solid choice with a lot of opinion seems to think it mates well with the hd800. It will push my budget even more than the Ragnarok, which bring me back to the first two choices.
 The senn. Amps seems pricey for the opinion it gets, of course this is base on only opinion of others as I haven't had first hand experience.


----------



## Sorrodje

62ohm said:


> Don't overlook the HDVA 600, I actually preferred it to the BHA-1 when I auditioned both but I have to admit I still think about the BHA-1. I'll probably wind up with both of them in my possession eventually.


 
  
 Many other amps could be added to Bourneperfect's list but he talked about its own experience. It's not an exhaustive list.  For example I had personaly very good results with a (very mid priced) Meier Corda Jazz & HD800 and i really disliked the Vali when I owned it.


----------



## BournePerfect

soundeffect said:


> Is the vali/m stage a overall better match than the lyr or is it just a slight improvement? I'm thinking of getting a $1k-1.5k amp by the end of the year and wondering if I should grab one of those two until I get to it to sell a few headphones for the purchase?


 
  
 I think so. The Lyr I heard was running some nice tubes (roughly $800 total cost w/ amp)-and gave a goodsoundI willadmit. Very pleasing, easy to relax to-but still somewhat lacking in the technicalities. Reminded me of a poor man's WA5LE in that it had a very 'round' sound if you will-but none of the tight impact and precision which is a trademark of the HD800 imo. I could see how people would like the combo even if it's just trying to downgrade the HD800 to a 650 lol. The mSage also gives a pleasing HD800 sound-but doesn't really hide the Senn's strengths, either. Much cheaper I'll add. The Vali-well I've discussed thatenough by now I suppose-great punchy amp that doesn't try to mask the 800's strengths, and a bit more technical than the mStage too.


soundeffect said:


> Yeah there do seem to be a lot of choices for people who haven't experience or heard most of these recommendation. I've been considering the Sonett 2, CMA800R, and the up coming Ragnarok. Although the Ragnarok will push my budget more. What I really want is the super 7 as it seems to be a solid choice with a lot of opinion seems to think it mates well with the hd800. It will push my budget even more than the Ragnarok, which bring me back to the first two choices.
> The senn. Amps seems pricey for the opinion it gets, of course this is base on only opinion of others as I haven't had first hand experience.


 
 SoupRKnowva has an S7 FS in his sig higher up on this page. 
  


sorrodje said:


> Many other amps could be added to Bourneperfect's list but he talked about its own experience. It's not an exhaustive list.  For example I had personaly very good results with a (very mid priced) Meier Corda Jazz & HD800 and i really disliked the Vali when I owned it.


 
  
 Yep. In fact there are tons of amps that I can 'enjoy' the HD800's from, that will sound good. Otoh-'good' isn't good enough anymore once you've started to realize the HD800's potential-especially when some higher end amps/sources come into play. Like how we were PMing about the modest NFB12(?)/Vali pairing a while back-sounds excellent _for the price_, but can be thoroughly trounced when going up the ladder. The day I ever find the HD800's 'ceiling'-will probably be the day pigs fly. But damnit I'm trying.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## soundeffect

Yeah I saw that in the for sale thread and got excited until I notice he's in Korea. I'm not into purchasing over seas, too much trouble. Plus, I told myself to not buy anything until I can trim down my headphones with only the hd598 and hd800.


----------



## nephilim32

drez said:


> I find that better DAC/source can help the hd800 treble by reducing splashyness or smear. With my pair and associated equipment, I still need Anax mod 2.0 but this would probably harm resale if adhesive residue is left. Still not 100% happy with the treble (definition/extension) from my system though, but I don't think the headphones are the limiting factor.




Absolutely. A great DAC is the captain of the soundstage. Treble 'crispness' is bothersome I know, but my experiences this far is that the ARCAM irDac paired with the 800's is masterful. Really wonderful, warm analog sound where treble can be a smooth as silk.


----------



## purrin

By approximate price give or take a few hundred - not in order of sound quality - and only in relation to HD800.
  

Vali - extremely resolving for price. tube wetness. hint of warmth in bass. smooth, but neutral treble. monotonic timbre, but not gonna bitch for $120. I use it myself.
mStage - warmish solid state if input caps are left in place. lacks resolution and microdynamics compared to tube brethen.
Vahalla 2 - not the Vahalla 1. probably top 1/3 of this list in terms of SQ. yes, that's how good it is. fast, clear, resolving - more than Crack. not as warm though / neutralish. does not work nearly as well with low Z or orthos. best to stick with high Z Senns or Beyers.
Crack - must have speedball upgrade for use with HD800. warm (but again tubes play role). not resolving enough to take full advantage of hd800. this is why most owners say it better with HD6XX than HD800.
Super 7 (available used only) - bassy and thicker. darker sounding than best. balance can vary though quite a bit depending upon tubes. great slam and microdynamics. very good resolution.
Luxman P1u (assuming used price) - basically sounds like a Super 7 lite. slightly more veiled, slightly less fast, but just a euphonic in a no hassle ss package. Sounded dated and is less technically competent than most other amp in list now. But again, how you can get ECZD sound in a SS package?
Bryston BHA-1 - delineated treble attacks, but actually works well with HD800. neutralish. some reports of MOSFETS getting hot resulting in bass mud galore. Recommended if you live in a cool climate. The amp does not like heat. Good staging compliments HD800. If you want solid state, one of few choices.
Sonnett 2 - Has the DNA house sound with inner warmth, initmacy, immediacy. Improvement in clarity and resolution over the Sonnett. 1 Basically sounds like Stratus but without the DHTs - that last bit of microdynamics, separation, staging. HD800s out of the box work with Stratus without mods of any sort.
HDVD600/800 - I had my doubts, but great match with HD800. very refined sound, but probably lacks the slam the better amps have. balanced mode a must for staging, layering, separation, openness. not an exceptional amp, but very solid choice considering price. HD800 is smooth with this amp. I found the amp circuitry to have its own sound which allows the benefit of using a variety of sources without too many differences. This is a good thing at the price level.
DSHA-1 - solid-state but not solid-state amp. not tubey sounding, but treble charactersitics akin to tube. against the big boy tube amps, a just one notch below in terms of explosiveness an resolution. Really great for solid-state, but again properly implement tubes are always clearer and more resolving.
ZDSE - euphonic sounding amp. luxorious ride in mercedes. slightly veiled when compared to the bigger boy toob stuff. good stage. warm and euphonic, treble is the sharpest of all EC amps, but all other EC amps tend to sound "not bright" (didn't want to use dark, because that may imply something else.) I've noticed most ZDSE owners have a thick copper cable with HD800.
Stratus - slightly wet sound. latest version and upgrades is better all around with better bass articulation, staging, blackness, etc. Intimate sounding and actually good with cheap chinese toobs (my personal preference is the EML meshs, but many like the big bottle Shuguangs. works straight out of box with HD800, although with latest upgrades, care must be taken with source. I love this amp and Donald is so fricking smart, but he never comes off that way.
LG - had some of the more laid back 6sn7s and worked well with HD800. Has Cavalli trademark smooth sound with a very refined character which suits the HD800 tendency toward dryness. tubes make a huge huge deal, the point of the amp, so YMMV.
ECBA - neutralish amp, especially with new cinemag transformers. best staging, layering, separation, openness of any of the amps here by far because of high-frequency AC heater stolen from outer space satellite military applications. need to be careful of source. sometimes not a forgiving amp (I had to resort to anax mods), but toobs can make a difference.
EC 4-45 - best production amp for HD800 period. Take the BA and turn things up a notch in realism. Not forgiving of source. i was touched by the hand of god when i first heard this. avoid if you like artificial warmth - it's a 45 tube after all. But goshdarn kicks hard as hell.
  
 Lots of other amps, but I only mentioned the ones which gel well with HD800. Honorable mention is Woo WA5, but the time you are done with cap upgrades, and the necessary x2 mega regulator tubes to avoid HD800s from sounding limp-dick, plus x2 driver tubes, plus x2 300B... you get the point. and honestly, it doesn't compete as well with the other big boy toob amps. but its sound is considerable lusher than any of the others. keyword is lush, so certainly a consideration.
  
 The two Bakoon amps also work well with HD800, but too expensive and poor value unless you pay 50%-75% MSRP via a special.
  
 I avoided mention any amps which gooified the HD800 because I feel HD800 gooification or not taking advantage of at least 65% of what the HD800 can do is just plain wrong. You are better off with an LCD2 instead of gooifying the HD800. Amps like WA2 and Leben belong in this category.


----------



## nephilim32

Hello HD 800 appreciators and users. 
I was just wondering how many of you out there have tried pairing the ARCAM irDAC with the 800's?? You can include the name if your amp or cable upgrades based on your personal experience with this fine DAC. Personally myself, I'm a huge fan of the ARCAM. It's a real smash for the cash too!! 
Love to hear some impressions. I feel that the 'treble harshness' because its so detailed, from the 800's, is gone or non existent. Overall though I think the ARCAM and the 800's are a top tear pairing. Anyone agree?


----------



## whirlwind

What about Glenn's amps.
  
 I have heard a few good things about them with the HD800......yet not many people posting here about that combo ?
  
 Anybody have much info on this ?


----------



## MattTCG

Great list Purrin. Thanks for taking the time...


----------



## Sorrodje

purrin said:


> By approximate price give or take a few hundred - not in order of sound quality - and only in relation to HD800.
> 
> 
> Vali - extremely resolving for price. tube wetness. hint of warmth in bass. smooth, but neutral treble. monotonic timbre, but not gonna bitch for $120. I use it myself.
> ...


 
  
  
 Please , please , take some time to try the Sonett 2 one day and tell us where the "litlle" DNA sits in your list


----------



## listen4joy

what about gsx-mk2?. many said that he is the best amp for hd800


----------



## pearljam50000

Value wise, the Vali seems to be the king ^_^


----------



## soundeffect

Awesome list and description, thanks purrin for putting the time


----------



## Madmollusk

purrin said:


> By approximate price give or take a few hundred - not in order of sound quality - and only in relation to HD800.
> 
> 
> Vali - extremely resolving for price. tube wetness. hint of warmth in bass. smooth, but neutral treble. monotonic timbre, but not gonna bitch for $120. I use it myself.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the list, Purrin; it’s a genuine eye-opener! Did you really mean to say that the Valhalla 2 belongs in the top third of your list!? Wow. That’s a pleasant surprise indeed.  Would you say that the Valhalla 2 is a significant upgrade from the Vali? I love how my Vali and HD800 pair, but I confess I bought the Vali because (a) I’m often pathologically and irrationally frugal, and (b) because you praised this little amp so highly. (Awesome recommendation btw.)
  
 But now, I’m ready to stomp my frugal nature into dust—though, I admit, purchasing the Valhalla wouldn't exactly qualify as a budget busting demonstration of my commitment to audio lavishness.  Anyway, I would sincerely appreciate your input. Thanks a million.
  
 Paul.


----------



## magiccabbage

purrin said:


> By approximate price give or take a few hundred - not in order of sound quality - and only in relation to HD800.
> 
> 
> Vali - extremely resolving for price. tube wetness. hint of warmth in bass. smooth, but neutral treble. monotonic timbre, but not gonna bitch for $120. I use it myself.
> ...


 
 Eh purrin could you please re-do the list for quality first? I am just wondering where you would place the DNA Stratus. Does he Stratus (with upgrades tubes) in your opinion come close to the EC BA or EC 445 ?


----------



## purrin

sorrodje said:


> Please , please , take some time to try the Sonett 2 one day and tell us where the "litlle" DNA sits in your list


 
  
 Yes definitely. I owe Donald a listen. Will do so at the LA meet this weekend. Just a lot on my plate.


----------



## purrin

madmollusk said:


> Thanks for the list, Purrin; it’s a genuine eye-opener! Did you really mean to say that the Valhalla 2 belongs in the top third of your list!? Wow. That’s a pleasant surprise indeed.  Would you say that the Valhalla 2 is a significant upgrade from the Vali? I love how my Vali and HD800 pair, but I confess I bought the Vali because (a) I’m often pathologically and irrationally frugal, and (b) because you praised this little amp so highly. (Awesome recommendation btw.)
> 
> But now, I’m ready to stomp my frugal nature into dust—though, I admit, purchasing the Valhalla wouldn't exactly qualify as a budget busting demonstration of my commitment to audio lavishness.  Anyway, I would sincerely appreciate your input. Thanks a million.
> 
> Paul.


 
  
 Paul, now that I look at the list - maybe middle.
  
 I didn't realize I had added so many great (but costly) amps to the rest of the list. I think the Vahalla 2 can compete with a stock Super 7. In some ways less (not as much slam, not as crazy dynamic), in some ways better (less thick). I hate to say it, and if Craig ever reads this he will kill me, but Schiit basically made an Eddie Current lite amp.
  
 While Vali is king of value, Vahalla 2 is the sweet spot of the curve - the knee - before pricing gets astronomical geometrical. The Vali has a few issues with microphonics (manageable), and as I indicated, tends to be monotonic in timbre. it has a certain timbre which seems to pervade everything. The Vahalla 2 gives you the full tube goodness. It's not particularly tooby - very different from Vahalla 1.


----------



## jbarrentine

madmollusk said:


> Would you say that the Valhalla 2 is a significant upgrade from the Vali?


 
  
 Same question here. I got the Vali based on his recommendation and have been exceptionally pleased. I'm looking at the Valhalla 2 to use with my T90 and eventually with HD800.


----------



## Madmollusk

purrin said:


> Paul, now that I look at the list - maybe middle.
> 
> I didn't realize I had added so many great (but costly) amps to the rest of the list. I think the Vahalla 2 can compete with a stock Super 7. In some ways less (not as much slam, not as crazy dynamic), in some ways better (less thick). I hate to say it, and if Craig ever reads this he will kill me, but Schiit basically made an Eddie Current lite amp.
> 
> While Vali is king of value, Vahalla 2 is the sweet spot of the curve - the knee - before pricing gets astronomical geometrical. The Vali has a few issues with microphonics (manageable), and as I indicated, tends to be monotonic in timbre. it has a certain timbre which seems to pervade everything. The Vahalla 2 gives you the full tube goodness. It's not particularly tooby - very different from Vahalla 1.


 
 Excellent!  You just sold me on the Vahalla 2. Your advice and experience is always appreciated. Thanks again, Purrin.


----------



## purrin

magiccabbage said:


> Eh purrin could you please re-do the list for quality first? I am just wondering where you would place the DNA Stratus. Does he Stratus (with upgrades tubes) in your opinion come close to the EC BA or EC 445 ?


 
  
Slightly different sound / different priorities. I could take either depending upon mood or cycle of moon. So hard to rate. DNA Stratus is wetter, more inner warmth, more intimate. BA w/ Cinemag OPT more expansive and solid-state precise. Both slam like fugk and are super resolving as fugk. Again, caution with source. Two philosophies from the two best tube amp makers for headphones period.
  
EC 4-45 is just on another level. Transformers were designed from scratch, development took forever, and there was probably some luck. But again, the 45 tube does sound different from 2A3 or 300B. So preference of tube can outweigh technicalities.
  
I'd like to point out that any item in that list of amps is quite wonderful with the HD800.


----------



## purrin

madmollusk said:


> Excellent!  You just sold me on the Vahalla 2. Your advice and experience is always appreciated. Thanks again, Purrin.


 
  
Again, I urge caution. The Vahalla 2 is not an artificially warm sounding amp, so I have concerns with HD800 pairing depending upon source. If you already find the HD800 bright, I recommend Anax mods or DPEQ (digital parametric EQ) to tone down the brightness. Personal taste and choice of recordings will matter of course.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

soundeffect said:


> Yeah I saw that in the for sale thread and got excited until I notice he's in Korea. I'm not into purchasing over seas, too much trouble. Plus, I told myself to not buy anything until I can trim down my headphones with only the hd598 and hd800.




I'm in the Air Force stationed over here, it'd ship via USPS Priority to anywhere in the states since we have a normal us post office on base


----------



## magiccabbage

purrin said:


> Slightly different sound / different priorities. I could take either depending upon mood or cycle of moon. So hard to rate. DNA Stratus is wetter, more inner warmth, more intimate. BA w/ Cinemag OPT more expansive and solid-state precise. Both slam like fugk and are super resolving as fugk. Again, caution with source. Two philosophies from the two best tube amp makers for headphones period.
> 
> EC 4-45 is just on another level. Transformers were designed from scratch, development took forever, and there was probably some luck. But again, the 45 tube does sound different from 2A3 or 300B. So preference of tube can outweigh technicalities.
> 
> I'd like to point out that any item in that list of amps is quite wonderful with the HD800.


 
 thanks and i love the way you said "both slam like ****"!


----------



## purrin

listen4joy said:


> what about gsx-mk2?. many said that he is the best amp for hd800


 
  
 Do you see it in my list? 
  
 Seriously, I know many people who love the GSX-mk2 + HD800, but personally I hate it for the HD800. Why not just light up an arc-welder in my face? Sounds etched, strident, grainy and also lacks balls with HD800 - flat sounding. Antiseptic. Analytical. Not my kind of sound. It even sounded that way with an MSB Analog DAC which is as smooth and buttery as it gets. How the amp makes such a great DAC sound that may makes me wonder. To be fair, the GSX2 is very clear and detailed.
  
 First time I heard the GSX2, it was with the HE-500 briefly and I thought it was pretty darn spectacular. Resolving and clear sounding. But after getting more successive exposure to it with other headphones, I disliked it more and more. Just flat. Soulless. It's probably the most #1 overrated amp ever, with a mystery cachet enabled by the fact that they are so rare with production taking 27 months. I'm so sick of hearing that line "it's worth the wait" as sort of a lame excuse. While I am not going to say "it's not worth the wait", I'm definitely going to say "nothing is worth that kind of wait". Especially since there are DIY guys out there who may be willing to build you a Dynahi or balanced Dynahi for similar price, which is sort of like a GSX on steroids.
  
 It's hard to fight legends, but I'm in a legend fighting mood today.


----------



## zerodeefex

purrin said:


> Do you see it in my list?
> 
> Seriously, I know many people who love the GSX-mk2 + HD800, but personally I hate it for the HD800. Why not just light up an arc-welder in my face? Sounds etched, strident, grainy and also lacks balls with HD800 - flat sounding. Antiseptic. Analytical. Not my kind of sound. It even sounded that way with an MSB Analog DAC which is as smooth and buttery as it gets. How the amp makes such a great DAC sound that may makes me wonder. To be fair, the GSX2 is very clear and detailed.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I've spent time now with both the GSX and the MK2 and I'd take my previously owned balanced Dynahi over either. 
  
 I dumped the Dynahi for an EC amp and never looked back. Purrin's spot on here.


----------



## magiccabbage

purrin said:


> Do you see it in my list?
> 
> Seriously, I know many people who love the GSX-mk2 + HD800, but personally I hate it for the HD800. Why not just light up an arc-welder in my face? Sounds etched, strident, grainy and also lacks balls with HD800 - flat sounding. Antiseptic. Analytical. Not my kind of sound. It even sounded that way with an MSB Analog DAC which is as smooth and buttery as it gets. How the amp makes such a great DAC sound that may makes me wonder. To be fair, the GSX2 is very clear and detailed.
> 
> ...


 
 hahahaha - that's the first time i have heard anyone slam the GSX like that. I nearly bought one second hand a while back but went with the Stratus in the end. There aren't that many people I know who have heard both but its nice to know that the 2 others did prefer the Stratus over GSX for HD800.


----------



## preproman

What a load of crap..I'm talking straight BS


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> What a load of crap..I'm talking straight BS


 
 In come the hawks......... this could get interesting!


----------



## preproman

magiccabbage said:


> In come the hawks......... this could get interesting!


 
  
 I don't own the amp anymore.  However, the amp is far from what was described.


----------



## Rico613

I just compared a new GS-X MK2 with my Balancing Act and I have to agree with most of what Purrin says.


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> I don't own the amp anymore.  However, the amp is far from what was described.


 
 Yea but you know the way Purrin is - he gets excited from time to time. There are a lot of people who's opinion I trust that love the GSX - heck i nearly bought one. 
  
 I would love to do a side by side with the DNA St and GSX when I get my amp but I don't think there is anyone in Ireland with a GSX.


----------



## Madmollusk

purrin said:


> Again, I urge caution. The Vahalla 2 is not an artificially warm sounding amp, so I have concerns with HD800 pairing depending upon source. If you already find the HD800 bright, I recommend Anax mods or DPEQ (digital parametric EQ) to tone down the brightness. Personal taste and choice of recordings will matter of course.


 
 I consider myself duly warned. For some reason, the HD800 has never struck me as overly bright though. Uber detailed and airy, yes, but never bright, never fatiguing. The only thing I really want from the Valhalla is a touch of tube warmth, while hopefully retaining all of the HD800's stellar attributes, namely: its airiness, its immersive sound-stage, its almost subterranean sub-bass.  (A pitch black background would be nice too.) Put another way: I don't want to muck up the HD800's essential character with syrup, so to speak. For context, even the little dot mkiii was slightly too "tubey" sounding for me.  So, I think the Vahalla 2 might be just what I’m looking for. If not… well, I can always return it. Again, thanks for your advice.


----------



## ultrabike

preproman said:


> What a load of crap..I'm talking straight BS


 
  
 Nope. I also heard the GSX mk2 + H800 and it was a pretty darn bright combo. Great build, but SQ-wise proly much better with something like an HE-500 or similar signature.
  
 I know at some point you paired your HE-6 with the GSX mk2. I find that rather painful. Protect your hearing man.


----------



## preproman

ultrabike said:


> Nope. I also heard the GSX mk2 + H800 and it was a pretty darn bright combo. Proly better with something like an HE-500 or similar signature.
> 
> I know at some point you paired your HE-6 with the GSX mk2. I find that rather painful. Protect your hearing man.


 
  
 Sorry dude, Yeah - it's a load of crap - period.  Even the lessor amps of all kinds are not exaggerated upon like that.  That was over exaggerated as over exaggerated can get.  
  
 The HE-6 with the GS-X mk2 was a pretty good match for a headphone amp - not the best by far, but not as bad as some would make it seem.
  
 It seems to be some kind of product bias, some kind of _[Mod Edit: *cough*]_


----------



## ultrabike

Prepro, I can tell you Purrin and I were sitting at Justin's table and gave a few tunes a go with the MK2 + HD800. I can  tell you that Nirvana's "Come as you are" cymbals at the beginning of the song made Purrin and I cringe. This is not an exaggeration and not the only time this combo was heard either.
  
 Maybe you just don't listen to anything with cymbals? Or maybe you are not sensitive to this issues? Dunno man. But I'm being honest.
  
 The BHSE + 009 combo in that same table sounded uber-mellow by comparison.


----------



## purrin

madmollusk said:


> I consider myself duly warned. For some reason, the HD800 has never struck me as overly bright though. Uber detailed and airy, yes, but never bright, never fatiguing. The only thing I really want from the Valhalla is a touch of tube warmth, while hopefully retaining all of the HD800's stellar attributes, namely: its airiness, its immersive sound-stage, its almost subterranean sub-bass.  (A pitch black background would be nice too.) Put another way: I don't want to muck up the HD800's essential character with syrup, so to speak. For context, even the little dot mkiii was slightly too "tubey" sounding for me.  So, I think the Vahalla 2 might be just what I’m looking for. If not… well, I can always return it. Again, thanks for your advice.


 
  
 I think you will be fine with V2. The little dots are also too tubey for me, and lack necessary technicalities go make the HD80 shine. V2 just has that touch of tubes, but most importantly that clarity and immediacy which is only heard on tubes done right. The V2's stage isn't as expansive as the big boy amps, nor is the V2's slam; but it's still pretty darn good. But it's hard to get everything you want at that that price point.


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrabike said:


> Prepro, I can tell you Purrin and I were sitting at Justin's table and gave a few tunes a go with the MK2 + HD800. I can  tell you that Nirvana's "Come as you are" cymbals at the beginning of the song made Purrin and I cringe. This is not an exaggeration and not the only time this combo was heard either.
> 
> Maybe you just don't listen to anything with cymbals? Or maybe you are not sensitive to this issues? Dunno man. But I'm being honest.
> 
> The BHSE + 009 combo in that same table sounded uber-mellow by comparison.


 
 Using "come as you are" as a test track for cymbals? I could think of better tracks. You didn't give the GSX much of a chance did you?


----------



## ultrabike

magiccabbage said:


> Using "come as you are" as a test track for cymbals? I could think of better tracks. You didn't give the GSX much of a chance did you?


 
  
 We tried some other ones in Justin's setup (not sure, but I think we tried the usual Hotel California and Daft Punk's Get Lucky deal with similar results), but that one is the one that delivered the most pain going by memory.
  
 I feel that particular track is good for testing brightness. Heard the same song in Justin's setup through the BHSE + 009 and it was rather pleasant.
  
 IMO using jazz and classic music to test gear is not always as telling as using not so optimal tracks that are more revealing of a rigs performance in different areas.


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrabike said:


> We tried some other ones in Justin's setup (not sure, but I think we tried the usual Hotel California and Daft Punk's Get Lucky deal with similar results), but that one is the one that delivered the most pain going by memory.
> 
> I feel that particular track is good for testing brightness. Heard the same song in Justin's setup through the BHSE + 009 and it was rather pleasant.
> 
> IMO using jazz and classic music to test gear is not always as telling as using not so optimal tracks that are more revealing of a rigs performance in different areas.


 
 yea good point actually - Metallica's black album, any of the tracks on there would make your ears bleed!! Those cymbals are horrible!


----------



## ultrabike

Well, again, that exact same Nirvana song though Justin's BHSE + 009 did not made my ears bleed.
  
 What do you think of Talking Heads and The Eagles?


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrabike said:


> What do you think of Talking Heads and The Eagles?


 
 Love talking heads. I like the eagles as well but only some albums - i love Joe Walsh's - the smoker you drink, the player you get. Now that is a fantastic sounding album
  
 As for talking heads my favorite albums is  - remain in light. Mostly because of the Adrian below session guitar work. Love bellows playing especially the King Crimson stuff. You can really hear what he brought to those albums - Discipline and  remain in light


----------



## ultrabike

Going by your music preferences I think you might be better off with your current HD-800 pairing.


----------



## magiccabbage

Sorry the Joe Walsh albums is - "But seriously folks" not the other one


----------



## magiccabbage

ultrabike said:


> Going by your music preferences I think you might be better off with your current HD-800 pairing.


 
 What do you mean by that/?  GSX or DNA Stratus? i;m not planning on buying a GSX at all. My musical preference is far from rock - I mostly listen to jazz / soul  / funk  / acoustic. Recorded between 1955 and 1979. Rock takes up about 10% or less.


----------



## purrin

preproman said:


> Sorry dude, Yeah - it's a load of crap - period.  Even the lessor amps of all kinds are not exaggerated upon like that.  That was over exaggerated as over exaggerated can get.
> 
> The HE-6 with the GS-X mk2 was a pretty good match for a headphone amp - not the best by far, but not as bad as some would make it seem.
> 
> It seems to be some kind of product bias, some kind of clique.  Oh It must be those kung fu people..


 
  
 Never heard GSX2 with HE6. But yeah. GSX2 with HD800 was horrible. Unlistenable treble with _[Mod Edit: *cough*]_ bass. I mean how the fugk you can any amp make an MSB Analog DAC sound so unanalog? I know a local guy here who had a GSX2 briefly and promptly got rid of it. "overrated" he said. Ultimately, just not my kind of sound. But I'm sure many like the antiseptic.
  
 Funny you mention product bias or some kind of clique. That's been said about people who like the GSX. Goes both ways I guess. Like with placebo there is always nocebo.


----------



## magiccabbage

purrin said:


> Never heard GSX2 with HE6. But yeah. GSX2 with HD800 was horrible. Unlistenable treble with limp dick bass.


 
 Thats funny because I heard the complete opposite from others. In fact greed who had both amps said that the GSX had more slam than the Stratus. 
  
 Macedonian hero and DG have all said that the GSX has great bass. 
  
 I have never heard anyone say it was "limp dick" just transparent but I haven't heard it myself


----------



## paradoxper

Maybe that's how gear sounds at meets. Not a great way to judge.


----------



## magiccabbage

paradoxper said:


> Maybe that's how gear sounds at meets. Not a great way to judge.


 
 maybe they just don't like the amp - which is fine. Most people love it.


----------



## paradoxper

magiccabbage said:


> maybe they just don't like the amp - which is fine. Most people love it.


 
 Whether or not they ultimately like it or not isn't the point. It's more about did they get enough of it in that time or in that environment.


----------



## ultrabike

Quote:


paradoxper said:


> Maybe that's how gear sounds at meets. Not a great way to judge.


 
  
 Heard the "meet impressions" excuse before. The issues with this paring were not subtle. Again, HD800 + GSX2 should not be mixed IMO.


----------



## paradoxper

ultrabike said:


> Quote:
> 
> Heard the "meet impressions" excuse before. The issues with this paring were not subtle. Again, HD800 + GSX2 should not be mixed IMO.


 
 I think it is a valid point. I know having one on one time with gear has brought about different experiences/findings compared to squirt type exposure.


----------



## purrin

magiccabbage said:


> maybe they just don't like the amp - which is fine. Most people love it.


 
  
 Yup. Lots of people like it. Just saying I don't like it with the HD800. I don't deny it's "transparent" or very clear sounding and resolving. I already stated that.
  
 I mean if the GSX is go great, why did prepoman sell it and replace it with a cheap ass Master 7.3.1415926 from Audio-GD?


----------



## Greed

magiccabbage said:


> Thats funny because I heard the complete opposite from others. In fact greed who had both amps said that the GSX had more slam than the Stratus.
> 
> Macedonian hero and DG have all said that the GSX has great bass.
> 
> I have never heard anyone say it was "limp dick" just transparent but I haven't heard it myself


 
  
 It depends on what your definition of slam is. The control.. taughtness of the GS-X mk2 pairs nice with cans that have more bloom (i.e LCD-3, HE-500, etc.). With the HD800, none of that is needed. In fact, the bass sounds anemic and lacks authority. I've never professed to like the GS-X mk2 with the HD800, actually I've said many times that amp does not pair well even with the smoothest DACs I've heard. The Stratus in a sense does have more slam when talking about presence and weight. 
  
 The GS-X mk2 is a nice amp with certain headphones. Would I buy one again after seeing the light and what the rest of the price range has to offer? Doubtful. Put it this way, build quality = excellent, sound quality = mediocre (can be good with certain rigs/headphones).


----------



## purrin

paradoxper said:


> I think it is a valid point. I know having one on one time with gear has brought about different experiences/findings compared to squirt type exposure.


 
  
 Never ever happened to me as long as I knew the recordings being used and how the source (DAC) sounded like. If I don't know the source, recordings, and headphones, I won't comment or say inconclusive. Wasn't one meet by the way. More like four or five meets. Lots of them down in SoCal these days. Both public and private.


----------



## ultrabike

paradoxper said:


> I think it is a valid point. I know having one on one time with gear has brought about different experiences/findings compared to squirt type exposure.


 
  
 For minor and subtle differences and /or when not having a reference this is probably very true. When you have a point of reference and when the differences are not so subtle, the point looses ground IMO.
  
 Also not the first time hearing an HD-800. Heard it already through quite a few different sources. Purrin heard quite a few more.


----------



## paradoxper

purrin said:


> *Never ever happened to me as long as I knew the recordings being used and how the source (DAC) sounded like.* If I don't know the source, recordings, and headphones, I won't comment or say inconclusive. Wasn't one meet by the way. More like four or five meets. Lots of them down in SoCal these days. Both public and private.


 
 That's in part what wasn't so clear initially. I know you've mentioned in the past how you didn't care for the GS-X and I know
 you've mentioned before hearing it more than once. But still, it wasn't clear how much of a shot you gave it or the associated gear
 you heard it on. You cleared up those uncertainties.


----------



## purrin

greed said:


> It depends on what your definition of slam is. The control.. taughtness of the GS-X mk2 pairs nice with cans that have more bloom (i.e LCD-3, HE-500, etc.). With the HD800, none of that is needed. In fact, the bass sounds anemic and lacks authority. I've never professed to like the GS-X mk2 with the HD800, actually I've said many times that amp does not pair well even with the smoothest DACs I've heard. The Stratus in a sense does have more slam when talking about presence and weight.
> 
> The GS-X mk2 is a nice amp with certain headphones. Would I buy one again after seeing the light and what the rest of the price range has to offer? Doubtful. Put it this way, build quality = excellent, sound quality = mediocre (can be good with certain rigs/headphones).


 
  
 I love how you explain things - you are so much more diplomatic and gracious than I. Greed now speaks for me. I refuse to speak any more on the topic of GSX2, unless I am baited.


----------



## magiccabbage

greed said:


> I've never professed to like the GS-X mk2 with the HD800, actually I've said many times that amp does not pair well even with the smoothest DACs I've heard. .


 
 Didn't you buy it twice? Maybe you were using it with other headphones?


----------



## Greed

magiccabbage said:


> Didn't you buy it twice? Maybe you were using it with other headphones?


 
  
 I did, but that was purely for cosmetic craziness. Once you go black you never come back.


----------



## purrin

Yeah, just a different approach. I bitch and can find fault with everything, even what I currently own, especially what I current own. I also don't go around saying stuff is transparent or wire-with-gain. I haven't heard anything near transparent or wire-with-gain yet. Anyone who says that is full of smelly fecal matter or lacks experience.
  
 You can say stuff like the ECZD suchks, and if you could give me one or two legit words why, I can totally understand where you are coming from. My friend Anaxilus thinkgs the ECZD suchks, and I totally understand. But most of the time though, the words are just crap people parrot from others.
  
 I love true seekers like Greed and Anaxilus. Always on that endless search for better. Never resting on their laurels. Those are only but of a few who make me realize what I currently have sucks in the larger scheme of things. It's that never-ending quest for the holy grail - to finding something that will fool us into thinking it's real.


----------



## preproman

Quote:


purrin said:


> Never heard GSX2 with HE6. But yeah. GSX2 with HD800 was horrible. Unlistenable treble with limp dick bass. I mean how the fugk you can any amp make an MSB Analog DAC sound so unanalog? I know a local guy here who had a GSX2 briefly and promptly got rid of it. "overrated" he said. Ultimately, just not my kind of sound. But I'm sure many like the antiseptic.
> 
> Funny you mention product bias or some kind of clique. That's been said about people who like the GSX. Goes both ways I guess. Like with placebo there is always nocebo.


 
  
 Naw champ, not me, I'm solo in this piece. I don't own the amp and I'm not apart of any clique, I call it like I see it.  I see BS all over this one..  
  
 It would be a shame if you let your product bias affect your impressions. *(not saying you are - but it just seems like it*).  So what if your crew is beefing with that other crew - Chuck the bias out the window and be fair about it.  
  
 People here seem to take your word as "God" or something - I don't know why.  However, I can see folks running to cancel their GS-X mk2 order as we speak - because of a slamming like that in public.  Those things could have been said a little more politically correct.  But then again, if that's how you fell - that's how you feel.  
  
  
 Is the GS-X mk2 overrated?  I didn't think it was. Others may feel different.


----------



## ultrabike

Prepro, I could see how something like an HE-500s or perhaps LCD-2s, would pair really well with the GSX2. Regardless of clique, solo, membership or whatever. Those are not pocket change cans either. It did not work with the HD-800, at least for me.
  
 Is it overrated? Well, if someone goes around and says everything you plug into this amp turns to gold, I guess so. In general, there are IMO combinations that work great and some others that don't.


----------



## preproman

purrin said:


> Yup. Lots of people like it. Just saying I don't like it with the HD800. I don't deny it's "transparent" or very clear sounding and resolving. I already stated that.
> 
> I mean if the GSX is go great, why did prepoman sell it and replace it with a *cheap ass Master 7.3.1415926 from Audio-GD?*


 
  
  
 What's that the DAC?  I didn't replace the amp with a DAC if that's what that means.  I also replaced my F1J, does that make it any less good or great? NO..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I guess for the same reason you replaced your stuff with that cheap ass Schiit sh#t.


----------



## SilverEars

ultrabike said:


> If I go by what MacedonianHero says, the LCD-X, XC, 2, 3 and the Stax 009 and 007 are all ruler-flat awesome... Even if one has different priorities and preferences, I don't see how all of those can sound ruler-flat awesome at the same time. They just don't sound the same to me.


 
 Exactumundo.  FR doesn't tell you the complete story, but it gives you the characteristic of headphones.  HD800 is obviously boosted from 5-10k, you see that, and when you EQ, it lines up.  Although LCDs look flat, it's realy not because the treble dips.  Treble dipping is very significant.  LCD and HD800 treble are like polar opposites, hence you have fans for each respective phone.  009 I haven't heard extensively so I cannot say how it sounds, but based on FR, it looks like a happy medium of the polar opposites.  
  
 In summary, what M said is an overstatement.
  
 purrin is fowl mouthed man.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Quite a contrast from how things are usually put here.


----------



## Maxvla

GS-X, Sabre DAC and unmodded HD800s. I'm living Marv's nightmare!


----------



## ultrabike

silverears said:


> Exactumundo.  FR doesn't tell you the complete story, but it gives you the characteristic of headphones.  HD800 is obviously boosted from 5-10k, you see that, and when you EQ, it lines up.  Although LCDs look flat, it's realy not because the treble dips.  Treble dipping is very significant.  LCD and HD800 treble are like polar opposites, hence you have fans for each respective phone.  009 I haven't heard extensively so I cannot say how it sounds, but based on FR, it looks like a happy medium of the polar opposites.
> 
> In summary, what M said is an overstatement.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Even if one has zero confidence in FR, I can say with confidence that LCDs in general don't sound like 009s or 007s. Can't see having all of them as references for neutrality and awesomeness at the same time.
  
 Going back to the HD-800, it is not my favorite headphone at all, but I can see some pairings working really well. The best pairing I've heard (IMO) had a modded HD-800 though.
  
 Pretty sure _[Mod edit: ...that I shouldn't write rude commments directed at other members.]_


----------



## SilverEars

ultrabike said:


> Even if one has zero confidence in FR,* I can say with confidence that LCDs in general don't sound like 009s or 007s*. Can't see having all of them as references for neutrality and awesomeness at the same time.
> 
> Going back to the HD-800, it is not my favorite headphone at all, but I can see some pairings working really well. The best pairing I've heard (IMO) had a modded HD-800 though.


 
 Never said that, and like I said, they don't sound the same. The FR even shows it, although there are other aspects to the phones other than FR.
  
 I don't find the ones I've heard on the list as neutral.  They are not neutral.  So if M said ruler flat bla bla, it's load of crock!  Possibly the 009 that I've not heard extensively, could be more neutral than the others.


----------



## ultrabike

silverears said:


> Never said that, and like I said, they don't sound the same. The FR even shows it, although there are other aspects to the phones other than FR.
> 
> I don't find the ones I've heard on the list as neutral.  They are not neutral.  So if M said ruler flat bla bla, it's load of crock!  Possibly the 009 that I've not heard extensively, could be more neutral than the others.


 
  
 Nah I know exactly what you mean mang. It's just I know some people "don't do plots"...


----------



## purrin

preproman said:


> Chuck the bias out the window and be fair about it.


 
  
 Want the honest answer?
  
 The GSX2 is in general OK - but used with the HD800s, quite horrible. I'll say it for the third time. Very clear and resolving. But with the HD800, sounds anemic in comparison to the big tube amps. I also feel it's kind of on the flat analytical side. It has a tendency to impart some etch into the treble. The character of such is very much like SABRE - so whether you use an Oppo or MSB Analog, both end up sounding very similarly on the GSX2. This is another trait that makes me not like it with the HD800 which tends to be treble happy and grainy.
  
 Very good match with the HE-500. The HE-500 has a slightly compressed character, like many other orthos, so the inherent flatness of the GSX2 doesn't manifest as much on it compared to the HD-800. The HE-500 also tends to be thick sounding, so the GSX2 characteristic of being antiseptic gels well.
  
 Compared to the Mjolnir, I prefer the Mjolnir. The Mjolnir has way more slam than the GSX2, more than anything else - perhaps only beaten by the Dynahi. Mjolnir has way better macrodynamics and is rather amazing in the microdynamics - probably has something to do with the cybertron output stage. However the Mjolnir is not as clear sounding the the GSX2 - it still has this low level of haze in the lower mids. Mjolnir is raw in the treble - not as controlled, but it is not etched.
  
 With headphones such as HD800, I'd take the Mjolnir over the GSX2. Although I would take the $129 Vali before either of them.
  


preproman said:


> People here seem to take your word as "God" or something - I don't know why.  However, I can see folks running to cancel their GS-X mk2 order as we speak - because of a slamming like that in public.  Those things could have been said a little more politically correct.  But then again, if that's how you fell - that's how you feel.


 
  
 This is really what it's about isn't it? Some sort of envy? Look, I'm just a random fooker. I REALLY DOUBT people are going to run out to cancel their GSX2 orders based on what I said. I'm sure people ordered the GSX2 knew exactly what they were getting into before they put down the deposit.


----------



## 62ohm

purrin said:


> By approximate price give or take a few hundred - not in order of sound quality - and only in relation to HD800.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great list, Purrin! How I wished I can audition the Luxman P1u, but I am (sort of) content with the HDVA600. It is very smooth and all, but lacks the attack of the BHA-1...
  


nephilim32 said:


> Hello HD 800 appreciators and users.
> I was just wondering how many of you out there have tried pairing the ARCAM irDAC with the 800's?? You can include the name if your amp or cable upgrades based on your personal experience with this fine DAC. Personally myself, I'm a huge fan of the ARCAM. It's a real smash for the cash too!!
> Love to hear some impressions. I feel that the 'treble harshness' because its so detailed, from the 800's, is gone or non existent. Overall though I think the ARCAM and the 800's are a top tear pairing. Anyone agree?


  
 I've tried the Arcam irDAC before with HD800 and HDVA600, alongside Musical Fidelity M1 DAC. Here's my impression of it.


----------



## icebear

ultrabike said:


> Quote:
> 
> Heard the "meet impressions" excuse before. The issues with this paring were not subtle. Again, HD800 + GSX2 should not be mixed IMO.


 

 I heard Justin's combo at the NYC Spring meet and there were no issues at all.




  
 I am sure that music preference will play a significant role in the judgement of this amp & headphone combination.
 If someone who listens to Nirvana doesn't like it, that gives me a good reason not to value that judgement too much.
 I just don't listen to that type of music, that's all there is to it.




 Cheers
  
 PS : And I am not cancelling my order with Justin 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## SP Wild

Great powers come with great responsibilities.


----------



## chengka7

OK, I think I have to say something, I heard GSx-mkii like two weeks ago in one of my old friend's house, the source system is my Lampizator B7 and his MSB Diamond Sig plus. We have almost every current production flagship headphones. 
  
 I am not familiar with MSB stuff, so I do not know how to describe their sound. I think GSX-MKII is not as good as some people claimed to be. Lots of people said gsx-mkii is super good with HD800, but I found out that it is not the case for me at least. Compared to my ECBA and my friend's balanced Dynahi, I think gsx-mkii has a narrower soundstage and it also has less details.
  
 But I might not give it enough audition time, so I just bought an almost brand new GSX-MKII(just been delivered by Justin last month) from one member here, and I will receive it next week. So I will report back when I have some serious listening. I will try to use it with my dCS viavldi system.


----------



## preproman

purrin said:


> This is really what it's about isn't it? Some sort of envy? Look, I'm just a random fooker. I REALLY DOUBT people are going to run out to cancel their GSX2 orders based on what I said. I'm sure people ordered the GSX2 knew exactly what they were getting into before they put down the deposit.


 
  
  
 Naw slim,  I have no reason at all to envy you.  Not really my thing.   Carry on dude..


----------



## purrin

62ohm said:


> Great list, Purrin! How I wished I can audition the Luxman P1u, but I am (sort of) content with the HDVA600. It is very smooth and all, but lacks the attack of the BHA-1...


 
  
 The Luxman is a very interesting listen which might make you smile. But sometimes gear that like can make you tire it of it. When I visit my folks, I do get pretty tired of sitting in my mom's Mercedes after the second day - if you know what I mean.


----------



## purrin

icebear said:


> PS : And I am not cancelling my order with Justin
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You mean my God powers aren't make you cancel?
  
 Let me repeat: "This amp is not the one you are looking for"


----------



## barid

Wow, I typically read very high praise for the GSX.  Never tried one myself but I've been looking for one


----------



## SilverEars

icebear said:


> I heard Justin's combo at the NYC Spring meet and there were no issues at all.
> 
> *I am sure that music preference will play a significant role in the judgement of this amp & headphone combination.*
> If someone who listens to Nirvana doesn't like it, that gives me a good reason not to value that judgement too much.
> ...


 
 So true.  Meet audition is a crapshoot.  It's hard to be a comprehensive assessment of the gear.  
  
 What is it about the GSX are people drawn to?  Is it a warmer SS amp?  Does it tame the treble?  What's so special about it?


----------



## SP Wild

I think the problem with the gsx is obvious. There is no tubes in it!


----------



## justin w.

preproman said:


> What's that the DAC?  I didn't replace the amp with a DAC if that's what that means.  I also replaced my F1J, does that make it any less good or great? NO..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think Schiit's greatest feat is being the only amp manufacturer that hasn't become the enemy of Head-Fi or one of it's spinoff forums....or are there more forums i dont know about. And there is still time, Jason..


----------



## seb7

justin w. said:


> I think Schiit's greatest feat is being the only amp manufacturer that hasn't become the enemy of Head-Fi or one of it's spinoff forums....or are there more forums i dont know about. And there is still time, Jason..


 
  
 People are less passionate about cheaper gear. But once their Ragnarok and Yggdrasil come out, there will be a schiitstorm of deniers and believers, no doubt.


----------



## SilverEars

seb7 said:


> People are less passionate about cheaper gear. But once their Ragnarok and Yggdrasil come out, there will be a schiitstorm of deniers and believers, no doubt.


 
 It's best to try  the gears yourself.  Reading other's impressions can get you so far IMO.  Everybody's ears are different.  Some like a bit of bass boost, some focus on treble, and etc..  Music preference contribute alot also.  Some like the 800 for it's ability to do classical and jazz.  Some like to find good matches with tubes, SS, and etc..  So much varieties out there.  None is the absoute best for everybody or genres, and the best is up to the individual's preference.


----------



## purrin

sp wild said:


> Great powers come with great responsibilities.


 
  
 Sixteen years ago, a wise man told me that I was an dick. I really didn't understand him at the time, because I liked to think of myself as a nice guy and really didn't want to be a dick. But as the years passed, I realized that he meant that even though I didn't want to be an dick, the mere fact that I was a human being meant that I would always be a dick to at at least someone else or some bug or some tree.
  
 Prepo had a good point. I could have handled this with political correctness. So I'm now faced with this decision. Should I become unclear, murky, and mysterious like Six Moons or should I just say it as it is - how a piece of equipment makes me feel - channeling Mike Mercer here because he's right - ultimately it's about how it makes you feel. I probably enjoying Mercer more than I would care to admit. Now consider this. If I don't like something and I wimp out and say nothing, I'm actually being a dick to potential customers who may not know what they are getting into. If I say it is not good, I'm now being a dick to the vendor. If I take the Six Moon route, then I'm a spineless POS or a NATO european "peacekeeper" soldier not worthy of human birth.
  
 The audiophile industry is by far the most opaque of any. If I wanted to buy a computer, it's pretty easy to make an informed decision and get the best pricing. If I wanted the car, it's also fairly easy to make an informed decision and get the best pricing with a little effort. Dealerships let you test drive cars. Sometimes the same car multiple times. And almost always multiple cars to compare to make sure you have the right one for you, especially if you are working with good salesmen. If you are working with a bad salesman or dealership, you can always go somewhere else. If a good salesman puts in a lot of effort to help me make a good decision, I will try very hard to buy from him, even if his price is not the lowest. This is called honor and something rarely seen in the West. Anyways, the audiophile industry is just really slimey. Insiders definitely know about it, but they will never talk to outsiders about it. I don't want to talk about it.
  
 So, I don't think there is any harm if I say something is awesome. That's a win win usually. Unless a person has difference preferences from me and ended up thinking what I recommended as not awesome. This was the case with Tdickweiler when he purchased a Vali. He did not like it. He ended up selling it at a minor loss. So in this instance, I was a dick to him. But then again, I highly suspect that he purposely purchased it to contradict me publicly. So maybe he's the dick to me, but also a dick to himself because the monetary loss affected him more than me.
  
 Now if I say something is suckhy. Maybe the vendor loses, but perhaps many potential customers win because they don't end up wasting their money on a subpar product or a product they would not have liked. Now what if I steered a customer away who would have liked the product in the first place. Then I'm being kind of a dick right? Well perhaps not. Patience is sometimes a virtue, so perhaps if this product had some redeeming qualities, that customer may eventually through further research, purchased that product anyways. In such a case I would not be a dick. In any event, I have observed that people will always do what they want to do, despite valuable advice. This is why I no longer answer questions about how to maintain stable happy relationships from younger folks.
  
 Now at the end of the day, this would only matter if I was somebody important like Robert Harley of The Absolute Sound or Jude Mansilla of Head-Fi. Now those two guys are truly powerful and can make a vendor's product with a video or front page review. Me? I'm just a random focker. I always laugh when people say stuff that I'm a god that will cause five people to cancel their GSX2 orders with a few words. In this case so what? There will be five more in line. A position of power is something I never asked for or wanted to be in.
  
 Decades ago, before I got married, when there were more audiophile brick and mortal stores, I once asked a stereo salesman (no, it wasn't Don Cheadle) why the magazines never said anything negative. He replied "because they could put small outfits out of business." I thought that was a pretty good answer back then. But now almost twenty years later, having spent a considerable number of years working in a small business, I realize what a crock of **** that was. As a senior officer of a company of I worked for, I was always looking at what the competition was doing, soliciting feedback from our customers, improving our product line and internal processes. It was impossible to keep all of our customers happy, but I always wanted to know if we screwed up so we could improve. We had competition, and we knew our customers would talk amongst themselves about us and our competition. There's no free pass in the real world. And there shouldn't be in audio either.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Hey guys, I am late to this one - still catching up on the thread but I can confirm that the hd800 + GS-X is not the "be all end all" some would have you believe.  I love my GSX dearly and also the hd800 but there's better amps for the Senns and better fitting phones for the GSX.  I wrote about this in the GSX thread a few times, most just tell me my ears are broken.  They are just too clinical and flat for me, not fun to listen to and not engaging in the least bit.  I tried many sources, expensive and cheap with the same results.


----------



## longbowbbs

purrin said:


> sp wild said:
> 
> 
> > Great powers come with great responsibilities.


 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






> Sixteen years ago, a wise man told me that I was an dick. I really didn't understand him at the time, because I liked to think of myself as a nice guy and really didn't want to be a dick. But as the years passed, I realized that he meant that even though I didn't want to be an dick, the mere fact that I was a human being meant that I would always be a dick to at at least someone else or some bug or some tree.
> 
> Prepo had a good point. I could have handled this with political correctness. So I'm now faced with this decision. Should I become unclear, murky, and mysterious like Six Moons or should I just say it as it is - how a piece of equipment makes me feel - channeling Mike Mercer here because he's right - ultimately it's about how it makes you feel. I probably enjoying Mercer more than I would care to admit. Now consider this. If I don't like something and I wimp out and say nothing, I'm actually being a dick to potential customers who may not know what they are getting into. If I say it is not good, I'm now being a dick to the vendor. If I take the Six Moon route, then I'm a spineless POS or a NATO european "peacekeeper" soldier not worthy of human birth.
> 
> ...


 
  


 If I am not a dealer/manufacturer, then my opinion is exactly that, an opinion. (I will assume that a professional should have a broader experience from which to base a "Professional" opinion. Whether or not it is totally biased is another conversation.) However, like you I also respect MM when he tells it like he hears it. Basically that is probably our best answer for how not to be a D*** is to just say how the product/chain made us feel. Did we enjoy the experience? If not, then can we articulate what fell short for us personally vs pontificating on our opinion being a truth. So many of us have great gear in our personal chain. Few have the exact same rig. We have all found our own version of satisfaction. Of course, most of us are not making a living here, just having fun (This is fun still, right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 As always, YMMV......


----------



## purrin

maxvla said:


> GS-X, Sabre DAC and unmodded HD800s. I'm living Marv's nightmare!


 
  
LOL, and exactly. That's the thing. It doesn't need to be taken personally. For those who do not know, I consider Maxvla a friend and someone who has definitely contributed a lot to my knowledge. I know what he likes and I totally understand why too.
  
People have a tendency of taking this stuff far too seriously. HF, spin-off forums, crew X vs. crew Y, secret cabals, etc. At the end of the day, it's all BS. Where I draw the line is not demonizing the people behind the products. And yes, I do like Justin on a personal level.


----------



## SilverEars

I personally like it to read contrasting views on gear as it provides more insight. At times people get attacked for this, and it doesn't help IMO. I like reviews to include cons if there are any.


----------



## 62ohm

What about the Ray Samuels Dark Star? It seems a bit overlooked as _Headfonia _says _"The Dark Star certainly has exceeded any of the amplifiers I've reviewed before it"_. Has anyone compared it to the GS-X Mk.2 or other 3k+ amps?


----------



## 7ryder

maxvla said:


> GS-X, Sabre DAC and unmodded HD800s. I'm living Marv's nightmare!


 
 Me too!  Although I just got the goods to try the Anax 2.0 mod for the hell of it


----------



## purrin

62ohm said:


> What about the Ray Samuels Dark Star? It seems a bit overlooked as _Headfonia _says _"The Dark Star certainly has exceeded any of the amplifiers I've reviewed before it"_. Has anyone compared it to the GS-X Mk.2 or other 3k+ amps?


 
  
 Oh gawd. This one will be less controversial. With all due respect to Ray as a person, the DarkStar is one of heaviest pieces of crap I've ever heard. Think of a several bad sounding veiled opamps connected one after the other. Sounds dead, but it does have power. A good reason why it works with the HE-6 which can be lively up top.
  
 It definitely gets one vote from me as the worst amp ever.


----------



## chengka7

I thought this thread was locked, haha, since I could not post anything just now.

Might be off topic, but I want my dream to come true, if Justin ever decided to build Susy Dynahi, I will definitely be the first one to put my deposit no matter how long I have to wait, lol.


----------



## burnspbesq

madmollusk said:


> I consider myself duly warned. For some reason, the HD800 has never struck me as overly bright though. Uber detailed and airy, yes, but never bright, never fatiguing. The only thing I really want from the Valhalla is a touch of tube warmth, while hopefully retaining all of the HD800's stellar attributes, namely: its airiness, its immersive sound-stage, its almost subterranean sub-bass.  (A pitch black background would be nice too.) Put another way: I don't want to muck up the HD800's essential character with syrup, so to speak. For context, even the little dot mkiii was slightly too "tubey" sounding for me.  So, I think the Vahalla 2 might be just what I’m looking for. If not… well, I can always return it. Again, thanks for your advice.


 
 I knew I'd meet a kindred spirit someday.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I understand completely where Marv is coming from, but like you, I like my HD800 straight, no chaser.  You're gonna love the Val2.  My only caution would be not to pair it with a very bright-sounding DAC (e.g., Auralic Vega), because the Val isn't going to do anything to tamp down the 6.5K peak in the 800's frequency response.  It might be the most sold-state-sounding tube amp I've ever heard (and anybody who knows me knows that coming from me, that's a compliment).


----------



## 62ohm

purrin said:


> 62ohm said:
> 
> 
> > What about the Ray Samuels Dark Star? It seems a bit overlooked as _Headfonia _says _"The Dark Star certainly has exceeded any of the amplifiers I've reviewed before it"_. Has anyone compared it to the GS-X Mk.2 or other 3k+ amps?
> ...


 
  
 Now that is unexpected, I thought the Dark Star would be up there with the best of the best..


----------



## ultrabike

magiccabbage said:


> What do you mean by that/?  GSX or DNA Stratus? i;m not planning on buying a GSX at all. My musical preference is far from rock - I mostly listen to jazz / soul  / funk  / acoustic. Recorded between 1955 and 1979. Rock takes up about 10% or less.


 
  
 Didn't see your post till now. I haven't spend that much time with the DNA Stratus, but people that have describe it as a fairly engaging yet warm sounding amp.
  
 I also hear jazz, soul, funk and acoustic occasionally. But I do tend more towards 80s, classical, pop, rock, and other stuff. Jazz may still get too sizzling with the GSX2 + HD800 combo IMO.


----------



## Currawong

Modern jazz or old recordings? The older stuff might work well.


----------



## ultrabike

Yes, older recordings (jazz and stuff) might work out.


----------



## SilverEars

ultrabike said:


> Yes, older recordings (jazz and stuff) might work out.


 
 Yeah, the old stuff is amazing.  Stuff that I ran into that sounds the best is from the 60's.  Is that the golden years of jazz?  Is this when hifi recording was discovered?


----------



## OJNeg

The Dark Star is a great piece of gear. I hear many studios around the world use it as a compressor.


----------



## warrenpchi

purrin said:


> 62ohm said:
> 
> 
> > What about the Ray Samuels Dark Star? It seems a bit overlooked as _Headfonia _says _"The Dark Star certainly has exceeded any of the amplifiers I've reviewed before it"_. Has anyone compared it to the GS-X Mk.2 or other 3k+ amps?
> ...


 
  
 It's also a little noisy, but ouch.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The one thing I would impress upon anyone is that the DarkStar is all about power.  That's it.  Don't look to it for anything else.  But oh what glorious power!  It can be absolutely intoxicating, it is absolutely intoxicating in that way.  And yes, that power makes it very well-suited for hard-to-drive cans... almost as if it was purpose built for such a scenario.  I certainly like it for its ability to brute force certain cans into submission, but at the same time would probably never own one because that's really all it is good (great) for.
  
 If anyone is thinking about a DarkStar, I would advise trying out the Ragnarok before making a final decision.


----------



## kothganesh

warrenpchi said:


> It's also a little noisy, but ouch.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Warren,
  
 is the Darkstar then an alternative to speaker amps for cans like the HE 4 and/or the HE 6? If you read the HE 6, they are into Krells now.


----------



## olor1n

Been away from HF for a few months and find the same folks talking about the same thing, with purrin stirring the nest as usual. Lol. Hai guise!


----------



## zerodeefex

I actually am really glad that people like Purrin are willing to call out gear that isn't a good value or isn't as phenomenal as the supporters claim it is. 
  
 I've spent many thousands of dollars in this hobby and come out with mixed results in many cases. I see thread after thread of people vehemently supporting gear they own, trying to justify the purchases they made. I get feeling a sense of ownership, but the overwhelmingly positive comments everywhere make it hard to suss out the wheat from the chaff. If anything, this hobby needs more gear detractors who are willing to call it like they see it. 
  
 I feel incredibly lucky to find the pickiest of folks and try out quite a bit of higher end gear to settle where I am right now. 
  
 edit: and no, I'm not supporting the terrible vitrol some groups try to drop in every thread one manufacturer or another creates.


----------



## aive

purrin said:


> ...
> The audiophile industry is by far the most opaque of any. If I wanted to buy a computer, it's pretty easy to make an informed decision and get the best pricing. If I wanted the car, it's also fairly easy to make an informed decision and get the best pricing with a little effort. Dealerships let you test drive cars. Sometimes the same car multiple times. And almost always multiple cars to compare to make sure you have the right one for you, especially if you are working with good salesmen. If you are working with a bad salesman or dealership, you can always go somewhere else. If a good salesman puts in a lot of effort to help me make a good decision, I will try very hard to buy from him, even if his price is not the lowest. This is called honor and something rarely seen in the West. Anyways, the audiophile industry is just really slimey. Insiders definitely know about it, but they will never talk to outsiders about it. I don't want to talk about it.
> ...
> 
> There's no free pass in the real world. And there shouldn't be in audio either.


 
  
 Seriously, most sensible thing I've read on head-fi thus far - it really is difficult to make an assessment of a product based on the majority of people's feedback/comments. And it's very very hard to make an informed decision re audio gear.
  
 To keep things on track HD800 stuff:


mr.sneis said:


> Hey guys, I am late to this one - still catching up on the thread but I can confirm that the hd800 + GS-X is not the "be all end all" some would have you believe.  I love my GSX dearly and also the hd800 but there's better amps for the Senns and better fitting phones for the GSX.  I wrote about this in the GSX thread a few times, most just tell me my ears are broken.  They are just too clinical and flat for me, not fun to listen to and not engaging in the least bit.  I tried many sources, expensive and cheap with the same results.


 
 Do you think the flaws can be fixed with EQ magic? I've got a GSX on order, and I was thinking about complimenting my LCD3 with a pair of HD800's (with anax mod of course) someday. I'm not the type who can get another amp just for the HD800 ><
  
 Or phrased another way, is the GSX technically competent enough to be a platform that can be improved via EQ tweaking? E.g. Solid basics, low noise, high dynamic range, high power and control, etc... It seems to have these qualities based on people's comments...
  


purrin said:


> Do you see it in my list?
> 
> Seriously, I know many people who love the GSX-mk2 + HD800, but personally I hate it for the HD800. Why not just light up an arc-welder in my face?


 
 Worst timing ever. Been waiting a year+ for my GSX and you only say this now?


----------



## drez

Not everyone hears the same, some people are less or more sensitive to piercing treble.
  
 There is more than one way to skin a cat.  If you do find issue with GSX treble, you can address it with source, DAC, EQ, cables, vibration mods, Anax mods, many choices.
  
 EDIT fixed idiom


----------



## LugBug1

My advice to all of ya's splashing out on GX's, Darkstars, and other overly priced dedicated amps is go and buy a great condition vintage NAD instead. Then if you are not 100% impressed I will personally do nothing about it. 
  
 But you can thank me by sending me all the money you have saved.


----------



## kugino

i am using some vintage 8W tube monoblock amps and a DIY robinette box. sounds fantastic with the hd800...have had the amps for a number of years...and built the box for $40. it sounds better than some $2000+ headamps i've owned in the past.


----------



## Maxvla

lugbug1 said:


> My advice to all of ya's splashing out on GX's, Darkstars, and other overly priced dedicated amps is go and buy a great condition vintage NAD instead. Then if you are not 100% impressed I will personally do nothing about it.
> 
> But you can thank me by sending me all the money you have saved.



As has been stated before you are basically EQing via output impedance with most vintage receivers. It's cool if that's the sound you like, but realize that isn't true to the source.


----------



## warrenpchi

kothganesh said:


> Warren,
> 
> is the Darkstar then an alternative to speaker amps for cans like the HE 4 and/or the HE 6? If you read the HE 6, they are into Krells now.


 
  
 Just a quick comment on this, and then back on topic.
  
 I think so, yes.  Though, again, I'd like to point out that one should really consider other amps as well (like the Ragnarok) before purchasing.  The DarkStar's purchase price is not trivial after all, and everyone should be sure that is what they really want before plunking down that cash.  Actually, now that I think about it, I think all HE-6 owners should audition the HE-560 before making any sudden purchases.
  
 To stay on topic, please feel free to PM me.


----------



## LugBug1

maxvla said:


> As has been stated before you are basically EQing via output impedance with most vintage receivers. It's cool if that's the sound you like, but realize that isn't true to the source.


 
 Yes I know this to be true with most 70's vintage amps/receivers, but the NAD's have very low impedance. Not quite as low as modern dedicated SS amps but neither is the Senn amp... Very balanced sound to my ears, also smooth and natural with great speed and attack because of the power. I wouldn't have bought four of the bugger's as back up's otherwise


----------



## magiccabbage

currawong said:


> Modern jazz or old recordings? The older stuff might work well.


 
 Jazz is the only genre where I can listen from 55 to the present day. So the answer would be both. Rock and pop music from 95 on-wards doesn't seem to interest me as much apart from the odd album here and there. Funk and soul from 64-76. I listen to a lot of English Prog as well 68-79. 
  
 Back to jazz - there have been a lot of really nice jazz recordings in the last 10 years that I would consider to sound fantastic ¬
  
 Cecile Mclorin Sazenlvant - Woman-child -  2013
 Wynton Marsalis - The Magic Hour  - 2004
 The Claudia Quintet - What Is The Beautiful - 2011
 Kevin Eubanks - Zenfood - 2010
 Esperanza Spalding - Esperanza - 2008
 Julian Lage - Gladwell - 2011
 Liro Rantala - any of his recording of the last 10 years
  
  
 There are a lot more than that and to be honest I cant imagine any of these albums sounding bright on a HD800 rig or the GSX. For me the HD800 is perfect for them. I'm sure I will enjoy them even more when I get my Stratus.


----------



## whirlwind

One of Glenn's OTL tube amps ?
  
 Anybody have any knowledge of one of these amps with the HD800


----------



## magiccabbage

whirlwind said:


> One of Glenn's OTL tube amps ?
> 
> Anybody have any knowledge of one of these amps with the HD800


 
 Yea loads of people do - on the Glenn thread. Supposed to be excellent.


----------



## Canadian411

warrenpchi said:


> Just a quick comment on this, and then back on topic.
> 
> I think so, yes.  Though, again, I'd like to point out that one should really consider other amps as well (like the Ragnarok) before purchasing.  The DarkStar's purchase price is not trivial after all, and everyone should be sure that is what they really want before plunking down that cash.  Actually, now that I think about it, I think all HE-6 owners should audition the HE-560 before making any sudden purchases.
> 
> To stay on topic, please feel free to PM me.


 
  
 off topic but, I read tons of review on HE560 vs HE6 and decided to buy HE6, did I miss anything ?
 But I agree with you on Dark S, probably MASTER GD is way better and cheaper


----------



## preproman

warrenpchi said:


> Just a quick comment on this, and then back on topic.
> 
> I think so, yes.  Though, again, I'd like to point out that one should really consider other amps as well (like the Ragnarok) before purchasing.  The DarkStar's purchase price is not trivial after all, and everyone should be sure that is what they really want before plunking down that cash.  Actually, now that I think about it, *I think all HE-6 owners should audition the HE-560 before making any sudden purchases.*
> 
> To stay on topic, please feel free to PM me.


 
  
 Many HE-6 owners already made their amp purchase for the HE-6. We're now waiting for the HE-7 or what ever it's going to be called.


----------



## Zoom25

canadian411 said:


> off topic but, I read tons of review on HE560 vs HE6 and decided to buy HE6, did I miss anything ?
> But I agree with you on Dark S, probably MASTER GD is way better and cheaper


 
 HE-6? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I thought you didn't do heavy.


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> Many HE-6 owners already made their amp purchase for the HE-6. We're now awaiting for the HE-7 or what ever it's going to be called.


 
 I hope it doesn't look like the 560.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

sure its kind of OT, but it came up...
  
 I think the Dark Star is a steaming pile oh poo, everyone talks about its power and how its great for hard to drive cans. I think the HE-6s sound like crud out of the Dark Star, I would rather listen to them on a Mjolnir...or any used Firstwatt amp, which are both drastically cheaper than a freaking DS...
  
 so to make it more on topic... I can't imagine the Dark Star sounding good with the HD800s in any way shape or form...it would be atrocious I'm pretty sure


----------



## Canadian411

magiccabbage said:


> I hope it doesn't look like the 560.


 
  
 Ya I hate the cheap looking finish of HE560. Nothing come close to HD700/HD800. IMO.


----------



## magiccabbage

canadian411 said:


> Ya I hate the cheap looking finish of HE560. Nothing come close to HD700/HD800. IMO.


 
 the HE6 is lovely but they went the wrong way with the new design.


----------



## Canadian411

zoom25 said:


> HE-6?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
    I had HE6 before and LCD2.2, I much prefer HE6 in terms of comfort level and SQ.
 Not really into angled pads but I bought LCD vegan pads just to try. 
  
 I started to train crossfit so my neck core will be bit stronger


----------



## magiccabbage

canadian411 said:


> I had HE6 before and LCD2.2, I much prefer HE6 in terms of comfort level and SQ.
> Not really into angled pads but I bought LCD vegan pads just to try.
> 
> I started to train crossfit so my neck core will be bit stronger


 
 hahahaha


----------



## CDWMcInSpots

purrin said:


> By approximate price give or take a few hundred - not in order of sound quality - and only in relation to HD800.
> [...]
> Lots of other amps, but I only mentioned the ones which gel well with HD800.
> [...]
> I avoided mention any amps which gooified the HD800 because I feel HD800 gooification is just plain wrong. [...]


 
  
 I did a search without finding (much about) these in the following posts:
  
 I like my Sennheiser HD 800 with my:

*Lynx Hilo* (DAC + amplifier)
*EAR Yoshino HP4*
*AudioQuest DragonFly* (DAC + amplifier)
  
 The combinations are *engaging* with *toe-tapping factor* and at least for Hilo and HP4 *goosebumps factor* as well.
  
 Yes, the amplifier in AudioQuest DragonFly doesn't drive HD 800 to its full potential, but the combination is engaging nonetheless.
  
 Unfortunately I don't like it with my *Grace Design m903* because I find the combination less engaging (maybe dull or boring). A brief test with *Benchmark DAC1 PRE* or *HDR* next to m903 and Hilo gave a similar impression. Hence I bought the Hilo that day. Others do like the m903 or Benchmark with HD 800.
  
 I have heard the *Musical Surroundings Fosgate Signature Tube Headphone Amplifier* in a shop and found it engaging with good toe-tapping factor for several headphones - possibly goosebumps factor as well, but that's more difficult to catch during a shop evaluation. I believe Sennheiser HD 800 was one of them.
  
  I have over time found that it's important for me that an equipment combination is engaging with toe-tapping and goosebumps factor. For example dull but beautiful just doesn't work.
  

 My signature states "I listen at (very) moderate loudness levels.". Listening at higher loudness levels may yield different results.


----------



## RedBull

purrin said:


> Oh gawd. This one will be less controversial. With all due respect to Ray as a person, the DarkStar is one of heaviest pieces of crap I've ever heard. Think of a several bad sounding veiled opamps connected one after the other. Sounds dead, but it does have power. A good reason why it works with the HE-6 which can be lively up top.
> 
> It definitely gets one vote from me as the worst amp ever.




I listened myself this pairing, totally dont sound like an amp that price.


----------



## Madmollusk

burnspbesq said:


> I knew I'd meet a kindred spirit someday.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This is very interesting.  Many people have complained about the HD800's 6.5 peak (it may be the most infamous peak at head-fi), but I just checked my Sennhesier HD800 certificate and surprise, surprise, surprise!  Judging by my “individual diffuse-field frequency response,” my HD800's don't have a peak at 6.5 kHz. It shows a minor bump of about 2 dB at the 4.5 mark, which to my hearing is negligible. I bought my HD800's almost 3 years ago, model # 13xxx. My graph also shows a rather notable build-up of energy (5 to 6 db) around 100 Hz. I wonder if that’s a typical HD800 bass response? Regarding my DAC: I only have an entry level DAC (Peachtree Dac it X); it doesn't sound bright to me in the least though, so I’m hoping it works passably well with the Valhalla; of course, later on, I will upgrade it for something more robust.   Anyway, cheers to the quaffing the HD800 “straight, no chasers.”


----------



## magiccabbage

I might have to buy a vali myself.


----------



## Radio_head

There was a period in which I was looking for the one solid state rig to rule them all.  Excerpted are a few snippets from PM's over the last couple years:
  
 {Disclaimer: Preferences- I basically look for an amp to sound engaging and seductive-  by which I mean I want transparency and detail but I also don't want sins of commission like grating/harsh upper mids or treble.  I'd rather have one that sacrificed a little detail but I could actually listen to for long stretches of time than one that could wring more detail out but makes me feel like I've had a lobotomy after a while.  I also detest hiss or high noise floor, as much of the older music I listen to tends to have it already, I don't want my reproduction chain adding more.}
  
 So, with those preferences in mind, here were the amps that I thought accomplished that the best:
  
 CIEMs - DSHA>LAu>GS-X
 Low impendance High Sensitivity (Grado HP1000, Fostex TH900, Denon D5000) - DSHA=LAu>GS-X
 High impedance High Sensitivity (HD800) - LAU>DSHA>>GS-X
 Irrelevant impedance lower sensitivity (LCD-3, HE500, Paradox) - LAu>GS-X>DSHA
  
 The LAu had the overall best balance of great microdetail and lack of glare/harshness/bite with the largest range of headphones.  The DSHA overall would be second, with more play and a slightly blacker background with the sensitive stuff but less scaling with the ortho set than the LAu.  DHSA also has that slight blur to it, kind of like being in a smoky jazz bar if everyone was smoking e-cigarettes.  The GS-X had nice detail and drove a wide range of headphones well overall but had this razor edge to it with the HD800s and HP1000's.  I'm willing to entertain the notion that something like an Invicta (epitome of an SD DAC, designed by the same guy who designed the 9018 chip) and Mytek may be on the bright side, the HD800 is on the bright side, and the GS-X leans bright, and that 3 brights make a wrong.  So I am adding an MSB Analog DAC to the stable, to see if that helps at all and I'd revisit my thoughts at that point in time, which is why I've been a little mum on the whole thing (besides the powderkeg that can sometimes accompany saying anything less than stellar about Justin's products, I'd want to be sure of my findings.) 
  
 Then with MSB Analog DAC with power base in the fray:
  
 Okay, so things have definitely changed with the MSB Analog DAC.  A lot of brightness issues have been cleared up with only one pairing (the GS-X MK2 + HD800) noticed as an issue.  Since the GS-X doesn't have nearly the same level of pain-inducing brightness with most of the other headphones in my stable, I think the headphone is to blame more than anything else.  So, don't blame an overall neutralish amp for the sins of a transducer.  However, once the transducer is a known quantity (being bright) I feel very confident saying the GS-X is not the right amp for it - and that this is not a slight to your amp. To use an analogy that saves face, its like saying a mathematics professor from Harvard will not be the best teacher in your inner-city high school classroom.  Sure, he may know the material better than anyone and teaching it to a classroom of bright students whose only desire is to learn so that maybe one day their overbearing parents can live vicariously through their successful children, but teaching a classroom of disinterested kids will not be his strength.  Much better to get the unconventional teacher who can relate and engage the hard to engage, the type that eventually has a Mr. Holland's Opus/Dead Poets Society style movie made about them that my wife notices my tearing up at but doesn't question my insistence that they're not tears, they're icicles that got stuck to my face and started melting inexplicably in mid-July.
  
 After a while though, the whole cliques fighting thing became moot:
  
 So I wanted to give you an update on my findings.  The Gizzard has struck again!  All these petty squabbles about Justin vs Craig vs Alex vs Donald vs Pete vs J-stod are so pointless.  The TranSIT amp is the best headphone amp I have ever heard, bar none.  It uses SIT's (static induction transistors) that measure even better than the custom ones Nelson Pass commissioned.  These are solid state devices that have curves like a triode, and it really does sound remarkably like the best of both tubes and solid state, all in a solid state amp that really doesn't heat up too much as it only puts out 10 watts into 50 ohms (that's actually on par with the most powerful gear in the headphone market.)  The truly amazing part is how perfect the TranSIT is at driving everything from whisper quiet IEM's to the finnicky HD800 to the power-gobblers that are the HE-6/K1000/Abyss.  I literally listened to music all night last night, and there were many icicles melting on my face listening to this with the HD800 especially.  This is what I've always wanted in an amp - the ability for Crescendos to sound bombastic, but the quiet moments to move with their own subtle grace.  Its really too bad that the Gizzard is so secretive and refuses to sell his amps to many in the general public, as he would effectively render all other arguments moot.  In my opinion.


----------



## longbowbbs

radio_head said:


> This is what I've always wanted in an amp - the ability for Crescendos to sound bombastic, but the quiet moments to move with their own subtle grace.  Its really too bad that the Gizzard is so secretive and refuses to sell his amps to many in the general public, as he would effectively render all other arguments moot.  In my opinion.


 
 I would love to hear that next time I am in MKE......


----------



## magiccabbage

radio_head said:


> There was a period in which I was looking for the one solid state rig to rule them all.  Excerpted are a few snippets from PM's over the last couple years:
> 
> {Disclaimer: Preferences- I basically look for an amp to sound engaging and seductive-  by which I mean I want transparency and detail but I also don't want sins of commission like grating/harsh upper mids or treble.  I'd rather have one that sacrificed a little detail but I could actually listen to for long stretches of time than one that could wring more detail out but makes me feel like I've had a lobotomy after a while.  I also detest hiss or high noise floor, as much of the older music I listen to tends to have it already, I don't want my reproduction chain adding more.}
> 
> ...


 
 great post. thanks for sharing. Is there any info at all of this TranSIT amp? Pics or anything.


----------



## lojay

Google tells me this "TranSIT amp" is a joke: http://thetransitalliance.org/amp-faq/


----------



## shipsupt

radio_head said:


> After a while though, the whole cliques fighting thing became moot:
> 
> So I wanted to give you an update on my findings.  The Gizzard has struck again!  All these petty squabbles about Justin vs Craig vs Alex vs Donald vs Pete vs J-stod are so pointless.  The TranSIT amp is the best headphone amp I have ever heard, bar none.  It uses SIT's (static induction transistors) that measure even better than the custom ones Nelson Pass commissioned.  These are solid state devices that have curves like a triode, and it really does sound remarkably like the best of both tubes and solid state, all in a solid state amp that really doesn't heat up too much as it only puts out 10 watts into 50 ohms (that's actually on par with the most powerful gear in the headphone market.)  The truly amazing part is how perfect the TranSIT is at driving everything from whisper quiet IEM's to the finnicky HD800 to the power-gobblers that are the HE-6/K1000/Abyss.  I literally listened to music all night last night, and there were many icicles melting on my face listening to this with the HD800 especially.  This is what I've always wanted in an amp - the ability for Crescendos to sound bombastic, but the quiet moments to move with their own subtle grace.  Its really too bad that the Gizzard is so secretive and refuses to sell his amps to many in the general public, as he would effectively render all other arguments moot.  In my opinion.


 
  
 We might need some moderation here... The Gizzard has specifically requested that we not talk about the TranSIT on these internet forums? Full gag order!  Last time I had contact he said that's why he's not a sponsor here.  
  
 It goes without saying that the TranSIT is completely at another level compared to the other stuff mentioned here, but considering how difficult it is to commission the Gizzard, I'd say it's almost un-obtanium at this point.  Don't get me wrong, it was well worth the money and pain I went through to get one!!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

lojay said:


> Google tells me this "TranSIT amp" is a joke: http://thetransitalliance.org/amp-faq/




Was that sarcasm?


----------



## Radio_head

Oh snap, I didn't realize, I was copying over from PMs.  Mods, please delete the parts of my posts related to the Gizzard and his works as I was not allowed to publicize them.  Thank you.


----------



## purrin

magiccabbage said:


> great post. thanks for sharing. Is there any info at all of this TranSIT amp? Pics or anything.


 
  
 I'm on the beta list. Due to get in it at any time. The SIT stuff seems kind of BS'y. But hey, I've been proven wrong before.


----------



## shipsupt

purrin said:


> I'm on the beta list. Due to get in it at any time. The SIT stuff seems kind of BS'y. But hey, I've been proven wrong before.


 
  
 Are you getting one of the MKII's!!????


----------



## ultrabike

SIT >> Nelson Passes Transistors!? Not possible at room temperature!


----------



## jazzflav

Coastal Grooves, now that's some good music. Rolling down Pacific Coast Hight  alot of Ocean and Coastal Grooves


----------



## jazzflav

Pacific Coast Highway


----------



## magiccabbage

purrin said:


> I'm on the beta list. Due to get in it at any time. The SIT stuff seems kind of BS'y. But hey, I've been proven wrong before.


 
 Will you have that side by side with your EC445? Can you post pics please when that station is complete?


----------



## paradoxper

Really.


----------



## Zoom25

canadian411 said:


> I had HE6 before and LCD2.2, I much prefer HE6 in terms of comfort level and SQ.
> Not really into angled pads but I bought LCD vegan pads just to try.
> 
> I started to train crossfit so my neck core will be bit stronger


 
 All planar users after 3 months:


----------



## ultrabike

Agree with a perhaps moderated post that the HD-800 in it's stock form is sort of bright-ish and analytical. Dunno about the uber-transparency qualities of the GSX2. I though it was a little analytical, but I would have to try some more cans with it to determine that. Some others might have already done that though, and don't think other amps I listened the HD-800s with made it so painful.


----------



## purrin

I never said the MSB Analog sounds lush. It does not. The MSB Analog is probably the most tonally correct DAC I have heard. It does sound smooth and liquid with a lack of grain. This is what I mean by "analog". That through the GSX2 and HD800, the MSB sounded more like a SABRE DAC than an MSB Analog DAC. I hope that clarifies things.
  
 I don't feel the GSX2 is all that ruthlessly revealing. There are many other amps more revealing of microdetail. The Krell Klone for instance was more revealing. The 4-45 is more revealing of microdetail. I also don't feel the GSX2 is as "transparent" as people claim. The treble behavior tends toward etchy and splashy regardless of headphone. This is an obvious coloration. The HD800 just makes it more evident. Dry and sterile is also a coloration.
  
 But yes, it's no shocker a face tweeter does not mate well with the GSX2 and I don't know why so many people have their panties in a bunch about it.


----------



## Canadian411

zoom25 said:


> All planar users after 3 months:


 
  
 I wonder why my neck was weak for audezes,  looks like I have a long very long way to go .


----------



## LugBug1

omg that pic is just horrible... What a ghastly looking man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  
 Anyhow, there's been some really great reading these last 100 or so posts! I wonder if any of the more prolific head-fiers believe that impedance matching matters with the HD800. 120ohm clearly fills them out and can be pleasing to some. Some find it hard to find synergy with next to zero ohm output amps unless they use mods on the hp itself... Just wondering if ss amps that have an impedance output a little higher are better suited. I think the M-stage does and this seems to please quite a few of us. My experience is that they work better with higher impedance. (obviously this not the only factor involved with good amps but I think it is an important one.)


----------



## BobJS

zoom25 said:


> All planar users after 3 months:


 
  
 THANK YOU!   I was about to ask you SennHeads how to get these new LCD3s off my head and get back to my trusty 800.   OTOH, it's only been a week.  Maybe I'll keep 'em on another 2 months.


----------



## Maxvla

lugbug1 said:


> omg that pic is just horrible... What a ghastly looking man!
> 
> 
> Anyhow, there's been some really great reading these last 100 or so posts! I wonder if any of the more prolific head-fiers believe that impedance matching matters with the HD800. 120ohm clearly fills them out and can be pleasing to some. Some find it hard to find synergy with next to zero ohm output amps unless they use mods on the hp itself... Just wondering if ss amps that have an impedance output a little higher are better suited. I think the M-stage does and this seems to please quite a few of us. My experience is that they work better with higher impedance. (obviously this not the only factor involved with good amps but I think it is an important one.)



M-Stage has either 5 or 10 ohm output depending on which spec sheet you read. Relatively low, not enough to significantly change the sound.


----------



## purrin

A touch. 2 to 12 ohms seems to do the trick. 120 changes the sound too much. But I have to admit I like the 50 to 120 ohm range at times.


----------



## LugBug1

maxvla said:


> M-Stage has either 5 or 10 ohm output depending on which spec sheet you read. Relatively low, not enough to significantly change the sound.


 
 Low yes but it may be a subtlety that is a deal breaker... You know how finicky we are!
  


purrin said:


> A touch. 2 to 12 ohms seems to do the trick. 120 changes the sound too much. But I have to admit I like the 50 to 120 ohm range at times.


 
 Thanks thats really helpful  I think it was Magickman that had his vintage 3020 NAD measured and it was giving out approx 5 ohms. This seems really odd for 1979!


----------



## justin w.

A lot of people like to pair the HD800 with tube amps that are 150-300 ohms output impedance, and that isnt a constant number, and pair that with the HD800s very non-linear Impedance vs Frequency chart, you get a different headphone


----------



## Zoom25

canadian411 said:


> I wonder why my neck was weak for audezes,  looks like I have a *long very long way to go* .


 
 Christmas at most.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


lugbug1 said:


> omg that pic is just horrible... What a ghastly looking man!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's Brock Lesnar. He trains with HE-6's primarily as a portable. He carries speakers amps, DACs, and power supplies with him everywhere.
  
 Regarding impedance output, I'm not sure that it's best to group amps and select them based on just their impedance outputs - goes for both headphone and speaker amps IME. The first thing that comes to mind is how dead sounding and bright the O2 sounded with it's less than 1 ohm impedance with pretty much every headphone I've tried it with. Take my DM Source output or other headphone jacks of headphone outputs on some studio gear that also have a very low impedance output and the difference is quite opposite. Neutral but without any of the flaws - except for hard to drive HE6 and planars.


----------



## Zoom25

bobjs said:


> THANK YOU!   I was about to ask you SennHeads how to get these new LCD3s off my head and get back to my trusty 800.   OTOH, it's only been a week.  Maybe I'll keep 'em on another 2 months.


 
 Pull the headband apart on the LCD-3 starting from the middle and work outwards from there. Keep doing it for a week or until it is permanent. After that, throw a Beyer foam headband add-on and it will make a world of difference.


----------



## Zoom25

Also to support Lugbug's 120 ohm claims, there's also evidence of it being implemented. http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/products/Zodiac-Gold-DAC
  
 Click the features tab to read more -> you can dial in the impedance output anywhere up to 120 ohm. So I definitely do understand what you are saying. Although have found great results with all type of impedance outputs. Best to probably listen via own audition.


----------



## BournePerfect

magiccabbage said:


> I might have to buy a vali myself.




Figured you tried one by now. Excellent HD800 amp in the <$1000 territory. A no brainer at it's price.

-Daniel


----------



## pearljam50000

What are the benefits of an expensive amp with HD800?
 Let's say i get the Vali, and i am never getting a 1000$ amp, what am i going to miss out?


----------



## James-uk

pearljam50000 said:


> What are the benefits of an expensive amp with HD800?
> Let's say i get the Vali, and i am never getting a 1000$ amp, what am i going to miss out?




Not sure about the Vali but nothing is missing using O2 and that's cheap as chips. If anything the O2 is a bit more revealing than my HDVD800 balanced . Price has nothing to do with the quality of sound from an amplifier unless you know which one is more expensive. In which case the more expensive one sounds better. That's just the way it is


----------



## 62ohm

pearljam50000 said:


> What are the benefits of an expensive amp with HD800?
> Let's say i get the Vali, and i am never getting a 1000$ amp, what am i going to miss out?


 
  
 IMO you have to listen to one to know by yourself. First hand experience is still the best insight.


----------



## Kunlun

A wallet so light it practically floats?


----------



## pearljam50000

james-uk said:


> Not sure about the Vali but nothing is missing using O2 and that's cheap as chips. If anything the O2 is a bit more revealing than my HDVD800 balanced . Price has nothing to do with the quality of sound from an amplifier unless you know which one is more expensive. In which case the more expensive one sounds better. That's just the way it is


 
 Have you heard them both?
 Are you saying that i can get a 130$ amp that sounds better than a 2000$ amp? if that's true, why would anyone on the planet buy the HDVD800?


----------



## Maxvla

Because they don't agree?


----------



## purrin

pearljam50000 said:


> What are the benefits of an expensive amp with HD800?
> Let's say i get the Vali, and i am never getting a 1000$ amp, what am i going to miss out?


 
  
Existential question. Depends upon what religion you subscribe to:

Get an O2. Nwavguy and his minions figured it all out a long time ago. Hifi is just a big scam. Frequency response, 1kHz sine wave power output, and 1kHz harmonic distortion tells you everything you need to know. Opamps sound the best because they measure in those three areas and other stuff like power supply noise rejection the best.
The more something costs, the better it sounds. It's best that you post pictures of yourself with some hot Chinese hooker babes listening to your expensive gear and massaging your [redacted] on HF.
After a few hundred bucks, it's not worth it. Diminishing returns and poor value. C'mon get real, this is audio.
Can't help ourselves going for something better, even if what we discern as better has exponentially increasing costs. Only the current contents of the wallet is the limit.
  
So it's hard to say. A lot depends upon the psyche of the person if you are going to miss out or not. Choose one of two (you can straddle between the lines) correctly, and I may relate my own experience with the Vali and going up the chain.


----------



## James-uk

pearljam50000 said:


> Have you heard them both?
> 
> Are you saying that i can get a 130$ amp that sounds better than a 2000$ amp? if that's true, why would anyone on the planet buy the HDVD800?




Because it looks nice and has 4 headphone sockets 2 of which are fancy balanced ones , plus it has multi inputs useful for connecting other equipment . It also had more power not that it's needed for the HD800 but still it looks good on paper. We are just humans and easily manipulated . Why do you think billions of pounds are spent on marketing etc. I own both these amps. I'm no better than the next man that likes shiny gadgets. I'm just saying it how it is that all. Sometimes you need the cheap amp such as the O2 just use as a reference to keep your head out the clouds. I know I appreciate it for that. I regularly plug my HD600s into the O2 and realise that I didn't need to spend all that money for great sound but where is the fun in that?


----------



## BournePerfect

pearljam50000 said:


> What are the benefits of an expensive amp with HD800?
> Let's say i get the Vali, and i am never getting a 1000$ amp, what am i going to miss out?



Not much really in that price bracket ime. You'd want to go to the $1500+ amps that pair well with the HD800s to make it worth your while. For instance I prefer the Vali w/ the Senns in particular over the MJ, Concerto, Auditor, Corda Rock, and various midrange AGD amps as well. That being said-if you can ever snag a used Nuforce Dac100, it's built in amp pairs exceptionally well with the Senns. A great budget all in one-but discontinued. They pop up in the FS forums from time to time for around $650-700.

-Daniel


----------



## barid

One is a timex one is a rolex. They both tell time. Whatever floats your boat.


----------



## pearljam50000

You people gave me alot to think about...
 Anyways, i'm kind of happy because i'm starting to think maybe it is possible to reach audio nirvana on a tight budget of 300$-500$ for DAC/amp, which is all i can afford at the moment


----------



## magiccabbage

pearljam50000 said:


> You people gave me alot to think about...
> Anyways, i'm kind of happy because i'm starting to think maybe it is possible to reach audio nirvana on a tight budget of 300$-500$ for DAC/amp, which is all i can afford at the moment


 
 good for you. hope it works out. Try to go to a meet or something to hear different gear if you can. Come to think of it the vali might cost less than traveling to the actual meet. LOL


----------



## purrin

I'll just say this. The Vali kept me very very happy when I was using it. And I still use it on occasion.


----------



## SP Wild

Haha. I thought the last few pages were interesting. Kind of a head_Fi reunion. I'm quite happy to see some of the more knowledgeable people posting again. I think I need to try out the Valhalla 2...


----------



## drez

I like the reality check concept - I often get this at meets listening to other people's setups and the level of sound quality which they achieve with much less money wasted.  It's good to know you can downsize without too much heartache.


----------



## Maxvla

I could downspend to a Sony MA900 and Modi/Vali and still have similar type of sound, just not at the same fidelity. I could live with it.


----------



## lin0003

maxvla said:


> I could downspend to a Sony MA900 and Modi/Vali and still have similar type of sound, just not at the same fidelity. I could live with it.


 
 I could live with my Apple Earbuds too, but I would much rather live with the HD800.


----------



## Maxvla

I couldn't live with earbuds. You have to draw the line somewhere. At least the MA900/Modi/Vali resembles accurate audio.


----------



## lin0003

maxvla said:


> I couldn't live with earbuds. You have to draw the line somewhere. At least the MA900/Modi/Vali resembles accurate audio.


 
 Yeah, well in that case it would probably be the AD900 with something. I can't believe well it does for the price.


----------



## Sorrodje

purrin said:


> Existential question. Depends upon what religion you subscribe to:
> 
> Get an O2. Nwavguy and his minions figured it all out a long time ago. Hifi is just a big scam. Frequency response, 1kHz sine wave power output, and 1kHz harmonic distortion tells you everything you need to know. Opamps sound the best because they measure in those three areas and other stuff like power supply noise rejection the best.
> The more something costs, the better it sounds. It's best that you post pictures of yourself with some hot Chinese hooker babes listening to your expensive gear and massaging your [redacted] on HF.
> ...


 
  
 You're my god Purrin 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
 Just kidding Guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... Don't flame me ,I don't want to end my life  like Jeanne D'Arc.


----------



## yates7592

I visited a hi-fi shop yesterday to audition LCD-3, LCD-X and HD-800, fully expecting to come out with one of the Audeze's after having read so much good about them. Coincidentally I had just bought the HDVA 600 amp on a very good price from Ebay and wanted to see how all 3 phones compared when paired with that particular amp.
  
 I was really disappointed with both the Audeze models, too dark and very average soundstage, little/no depth, quite heavy and uncomfortable (it was a hot day). The bass, whilst strong and deep, seemed to get in the way of everything else and there was a lot of resonance going on as far as I could tell.
  
 Then I tried the HD-800 - wow! This amp really makes the HD-800 shine, even with the Sennheiser stock balanced cable. I had reservations before I went in to the shop about the bass in the HD-800, but I was very pleasantly surprised. Really really great bass, very deep, very fast, not quite as full bodied as the Audeze (where the bass seemed to muddy the rest of the frequency spectrum). Dynamics, transients, drum hits were all top notch. The mids and tops were also divine (a little grating in parts on a couple of tracks I do admit, cable upgrade may well help there?). Where the HD-800 excelled of course was soundstage, imaging, depth - simply phenomenal with this amp (and others I'm sure).
  
 I left the shop very happy and totally broke, having ordered the HD-800's to pair with my HDVA 600. Also ordered a Cardas Clear balanced cable. I will be using my old Yulong D100 as DAC for some time yet as there's no money left........
  
 I should also add that I auditioned at Hi-Fi Lounge in Bedfordshire, UK. This is a great place to go to play with headphone toys and Paul at Hi-Fi Lounge is both very knowledgeable and helpful.


----------



## drdiem

Fascinating! Especially given that I currently use HD800s and am gearing up to go audition the LCD-X soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Whilst the HD800 is undoubtedly the king with regards to detail, accuracy and microdynamics I've lately been wondering if you can have too much of a good thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Too often during listening sessions I find myself consciously thinking about how impressed I am by the detail I'm hearing (at the same time occasionally finding the mids recessed behind the top end presence), rather than just 'relaxing into the music'.
  
 Consequently I wonder whether an alternate flagship headphone might suit me better. I hope that (with the background of my personal preferences and personal experience of the HD800) I find the Audeze sound signature 'good enough' for me to let go of the Senn's technical perfection!
  
 BTW whilst I'm here I will say that I heartily recommend the Anaxilus 2.0 modification. It removed all trace of the top end sibilance that some folks encounter with this headphone whilst having only minimal downside, that being an occasional closing in of some mid frequencies in the soundstage - an early reflection from the shelf-liner element of the mod no doubt.
  
 yan


----------



## aive

drdiem said:


> Consequently I wonder whether an alternate flagship headphone might suit me better. I hope that (with the background of my personal preferences and personal experience of the HD800) I find the Audeze sound signature 'good enough' for me to let go of the Senn's technical perfection!
> 
> yan


 
  
 Seems like your situation is similar to this guy - http://www.marco.org/2014/07/12/ridiculous-headphones-pile-of-schiit - you might get some value out of reading his opinion. He opted for the TH900 instead of the LCDs.


----------



## drdiem

Thanks for the pointer Aive!!


----------



## James-uk

drdiem said:


> Fascinating! Especially given that I currently use HD800s and am gearing up to go audition the LCD-X soon
> 
> Whilst the HD800 is undoubtedly the king with regards to detail, accuracy and microdynamics I've lately been wondering if you can have too much of a good thing :rolleyes:  Too often during listening sessions I find myself consciously thinking about how impressed I am by the detail I'm hearing (at the same time occasionally finding the mids recessed behind the top end presence), rather than just 'relaxing into the music'.
> 
> ...




I grab the HD600s when I'm in that mood. Give them a try they are amazing considering the price.


----------



## David1961

I have the HD-600's and I agree for their price they're amazing sounding headphones.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

james-uk said:


> I grab the HD600s when I'm in that mood. Give them a try they are amazing considering the price.


 

 I'm at work now listening to my 600's + SB Crack.  It really is a great combo and an outstanding value.


----------



## Canadian411

yates7592 said:


> I visited a hi-fi shop yesterday to audition LCD-3, LCD-X and HD-800, fully expecting to come out with one of the Audeze's after having read so much good about them. Coincidentally I had just bought the HDVA 600 amp on a very good price from Ebay and wanted to see how all 3 phones compared when paired with that particular amp.
> 
> I was really disappointed with both the Audeze models, too dark and very average soundstage, little/no depth, quite heavy and uncomfortable (it was a hot day). The bass, whilst strong and deep, seemed to get in the way of everything else and there was a lot of resonance going on as far as I could tell.
> 
> ...


 
  
 WOW, I never heard LCD3/X but you saved me some money here. Not a fan of dark sounding or smaller soundstage, is not something that I am looking for, so I kind of have an idea about LCD3/x. thanks !


----------



## drdiem

james-uk said:


> I grab the HD600s when I'm in that mood. Give them a try they are amazing considering the price.


 
  
 Yes that's a thought. I was upgrading from an HD650 when I got the HD800, and perhaps the HD600 fills in the HD650's "missing" top end which is what I was looking to remedy with the HD800. I'd be most amused (and my wallet would thank me) if my personal satisfaction could be achieved with the HD600!


----------



## purrin

yates7592 said:


> I left the shop very happy and totally broke, having ordered the HD-800's to pair with my HDVA 600. Also ordered a Cardas Clear balanced cable. I will be using my old Yulong D100 as DAC for some time yet as there's no money left........
> 
> I should also add that I auditioned at Hi-Fi Lounge in Bedfordshire, UK. This is a great place to go to play with headphone toys and Paul at Hi-Fi Lounge is both very knowledgeable and helpful.


 
  
 Gratz. Lucky you guys still have shops where you can audition gear before making a purchase. Amazon has destroyed all brick-and-mortar stores in the US.


----------



## bfreedma

purrin said:


> Gratz. Lucky you guys still have shops where you can audition gear before making a purchase. Amazon has destroyed all brick-and-mortar stores in the US.


 
  
 Wow - I better hurry down to my local AV store and tell them to shut down immediately. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Of course Amazon has had a hand in the loss of many Brick and Mortar stores, but IMO, the ID companies and the mega stores (Walmart, Target, Best Buy) and their web sites have been far more destructive to "Hi-Fi" shops than Amazon.
  
 Amazon has eliminated media content B/M though (books, music...)


----------



## OldSkool

Purrin? No love for HD800/WA2 combo?
  
 I'm loving what the TS5998 tubes do for the WA2.


----------



## skeptic

oldskool said:


> Purrin? No love for HD800/WA2 combo?
> 
> I'm loving what the TS5998 tubes do for the WA2.




Although I love the looks of the woo, crack with speedball is a more detailed and dynamic otl than woo2, and a much more sophisticated circuit due to loading the tubes with constant current. 

Moreover, for the same cost as a woo2 plus tubes, you can build a mainline which competes with the best of the best on purrin's list, assuming you are willing to take on the build. It is marvelous with hd800s and a similar but more sophisticated circuit as compared to the l2, which Tyll and other long standing industry insiders have praised as their favorite hd800 amp. I guess the build is a little daunting in term of the time commitment compared to a Crack, but I'm surprised more folks haven't tried the mainline at this point. 

As to questions about Darkstar a few pages back, you can build one yourself for a couple hundred dollars with the clone boards EC sells. If this is really an amp you want, hire a diyer to build it at a fraction of the Darkstar msrp. Can't comment on its sonics, but reviews don't seem to be glowing.


----------



## purrin

bfreedma said:


> Wow - I better hurry down to my local AV store and tell them to shut down immediately.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I meant HiFi stores. Used to be a lot more of them in the 80s and 90s where you could walk in and try Sennheiser 540s, STAX lambda, or a bunch Beyers. For example, who remembers Century Stereo in San Jose, CA and all the headphones they had lined up on the wall in the 80s?
  
 If anything is still around, its the home theatre stuff now, and even then, they are slowly disappearing.


----------



## purrin

skeptic said:


> Although I love the looks of the woo, crack with speedball is a more detailed and dynamic otl than woo2, and a much more sophisticated circuit due to loading the tubes with constant current.


 
  
 Pretty much can infer how I feel from above statement. WA2 is "pleasing", but does not take advantage of the HD800's technical abilities. So WA2 does not make the list. In other words, the WA2 is a [redacted - insert what you think I am going to say here]
  


> l2 ... mainline at this point.


 
  
 I have not heard L2, but I know people who I trust and say L2 is great. From a design standpoint, it should be. I've loved all of Doug's amps (ECP Audio) with HD800, HP1000, and JoeMagnum headphones.
  
 Mainline is probably good although I haven't heard. Doc doesn't make crap and I have a good sense of the sound he likes.
  


skeptic said:


> As to questions about Darkstar a few pages back, you can build one yourself for a couple hundred dollars with the clone boards EC sells. If this is really an amp you want, hire a diyer to build it at a fraction of the Darkstar msrp. Can't comment on its sonics, but reviews don't seem to be glowing.


 
  
 EC Darkstar clone sounds better than Darkstar. It does some things well, but overall it sounds like ****. Even Craig says it sounds like shiit. Or you guys can even call him up or e-mail him and tell him that Marv said it sounds like shiit. I think he made the kit just to be a goof.


----------



## koiloco

purrin said:


> I meant HiFi stores. Used to be a lot more of them in the 80s and 90s where you could walk in and try Sennheiser 540s, STAX lambda, or a bunch Beyers. For example, who remembers Century Stereo in San Jose, CA and all the headphones they had lined up on the wall in the 80s?
> 
> If anything is still around, its the home theatre stuff now, and even then, they are slowly disappearing.


 

 lol Purrin, you must look really young for your age if you remember Century Stereo in SJ.  Unless, you hit this store during your high school years or ealier?


----------



## bfreedma

purrin said:


> I meant HiFi stores. Used to be a lot more of them in the 80s and 90s where you could walk in and try Sennheiser 540s, STAX lambda, or a bunch Beyers. For example, who remembers Century Stereo in San Jose, CA and all the headphones they had lined up on the wall in the 80s?
> 
> If anything is still around, its the home theatre stuff now, and even then, they are slowly disappearing.


 
  
  
 Not disagreeing that there are fewer hi-fi stores than before, but there are at least 6 within a 30 minute drive of me that still qualify.  Obviously, they sell HT stuff as well, but those 6 still have plenty of traditional 2 channel gear and headphones.
  
 For example, Overture near Wilmington DE has 20 -30 headphones available to test.  World Wide Stereo has the entire lines from Grado, Sennheiser and a few other mid/lower tier lines (Beats/Klipsch/B&W/Focal) and some Beyer and AKG models on the demo floor.
  
 I'm sure it's not the same everywhere, just pointing out that they aren't all gone.


----------



## Maxvla

We used to have 2 high end audio shops here (ironically practically next door to each other), but now we have zero. One turned into a cell phone with consumer audio store, the other moved and turned into an exclusively home theater installer for the rich.


----------



## purrin

koiloco said:


> lol Purrin, you must look really young for your age if you remember Century Stereo in SJ.  Unless, you hit this store during your high school years or ealier?


 
  
  
 yes i look young. it was after college when i made money when i visited.
  


maxvla said:


> ... an exclusively home theater installer for the rich.


 
  
 i hear you.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

Hi, I recently received some extra money that I didn't know I was getting and decided to purchase a pair of HD800's. Currently my upstream equipment is an Audioquest Dragonfly v1.0 as a DAC and a JDS Labs O2 as an amplifier. I plan to buy a Wolfson Audio-gd Compass 2 when I'm able to save money, but I was wondering if my current equipment will still give me a decent HD800 experience? I'd appreciate any comments, thanks .


----------



## Drsparis

toddthemetalgod said:


> Hi, I recently received some extra money that I didn't know I was getting and decided to purchase a pair of HD800's. Currently my upstream equipment is an Audioquest Dragonfly v1.0 as a DAC and a JDS Labs O2 as an amplifier. I plan to buy a Wolfson Audio-gd Compass 2 when I'm able to save money, but I was wondering if my current equipment will still give me a decent HD800 experience? I'd appreciate any comments, thanks .


I'd say pick up a schiit vali and your set for now


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

drsparis said:


> I'd say pick up a schiit vali and your set for now


Thanks for the suggestion. I think I want to get the Audio-gd though, from what I've read it sounds like it'll be amazing . I wish I had a Vali, it would probably make a better pairing than the O2... but this will do for now. I'm used to the HE-400's 10 kHz high frequency spike, so it should be okay for now.


----------



## Drsparis

toddthemetalgod said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I think I want to get the Audio-gd though, from what I've read it sounds like it'll be amazing . I wish I had a Vali, it would probably make a better pairing than the O2... but this will do for now. I'm used to the HE-400's 10 kHz high frequency spike, so it should be okay for now.




Than again I also think it will sound better than anything you have ever heard with any setup but that's just me...


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

drsparis said:


> Than again I also think it will sound better than anything you have ever heard with any setup but that's just me...


That's true, it's definitely the best headphone setup I will have heard. My speakers image fairly well, but the HD800 should beat them (obviously speakers and headphones have vastly different soundstage though). If I had a chance to use my speakers more often though, a pair of Totem Rainmaker might give the HD800 a run for it's money... my Emotiva is certainly better than my O2 .


----------



## kazsud

bfreedma said:


> Not disagreeing that there are fewer hi-fi stores than before, but there are at least 6 within a 30 minute drive of me that still qualify.  Obviously, they sell HT stuff as well, but those 6 still have plenty of traditional 2 channel gear and headphones.
> 
> For example, Overture near Wilmington DE has 20 -30 headphones available to test.  World Wide Stereo has the entire lines from Grado, Sennheiser and a few other mid/lower tier lines (Beats/Klipsch/B&W/Focal) and some Beyer and AKG models on the demo floor.
> 
> I'm sure it's not the same everywhere, just pointing out that they aren't all gone.


 
 I bought my hd800s from world wide stereo


----------



## LugBug1

Just seein if this one will stay here......


----------



## BournePerfect

toddthemetalgod said:


> Hi, I recently received some extra money that I didn't know I was getting and decided to purchase a pair of HD800's. Currently my upstream equipment is an Audioquest Dragonfly v1.0 as a DAC and a JDS Labs O2 as an amplifier. I plan to buy a Wolfson Audio-gd Compass 2 when I'm able to save money, but I was wondering if my current equipment will still give me a decent HD800 experience? I'd appreciate any comments, thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Check out my gear-and know that I preferred the Vali with the HD800 over every AGD amp and amp/dac combo in my profile. FWIW.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

lugbug1 said:


> Just seein if this one will stay here......


The thread? There seems to be a lot of controversy about the HD800, then again the price is on the extreme side. I paid $1400 plus tax for mine, if it weren't for their imaging and detail I could've avoided spending that much with an HE-560.

I feel they're worth more like $1200, then again the Stax 007 are priced at $2000 and if I remember correctly I've heard comparisons between the two... I bet the Stax is better at detail though.

Also there always seems to be lots of arguing over equipment that is neutral. Neutrality is measurable, and differences in hearing are mostly just some spikes causing sibilance for some people or slight preferences small frequency ranges. Some people just don't like neutral equipment and that's not a bad thing, I personally like a bit of bass emphasis... and there's nothing wrong with that. I will continue to love my HE-400's even with the HD800's in the house, maybe even using them just as often. I think I'll use mostly the HD800's for high quality recordings. Ear and head shape/size are serious factors though. That's probably the reason why headphones are often perceived as different, I believe. In speakers most people agree on neutral... but with headphones it mostly seems to be argued over. That might just be the nature of head-fi though, no offence to anyone here... there's just a lot of different people with different audio goals in mind.


----------



## lin0003

Just got a HD700 and comparing it to the HD800, I'm rather impressed.


----------



## 62ohm

lin0003 said:


> Just got a HD700 and comparing it to the HD800, I'm rather impressed.


 
  
 Would you mind posting your take on how the two compares? Cheers.


----------



## lin0003

Off the V200 and M-DAC, here is my opinion on the HD800 vs the HD700. 
  

  
  
 The HD700 has more bass that punches harder but is still surprisingly fast and detailed. Mid-bass on the HD800 is not as heavy but it is cleaner and more detailed. The sub-bass is better on the HD800, it is cleaner and clearer. I do not find the HD800 bass light, it is very neutral and the HD700 are a little on the bassy side. I can see some people liking the HD700 bass more. 
  
 The midrange of the HD700 is quite neutral and perhaps leans a little to the warm side. The HD800 mids are also very neutral, but IMO they are just a hair bright, which makes them very clear and detailed. The HD700 isn't like that and is much less analytical, they are both equally enjoyable, but being the detail lover I am, the HD800 is still the winner here, but it is quite competitiveness. 
  
 Some people say the treble of the HD800 is overly bright, but IMO it is not. I have one of the latest pairs and the 6K spike is still there, but much less noticeable. The HD700 is bright, a fair bit brighter than the HD800. There is a little sibilance on the HD700 but I don't get bothered by it much. The HD800 is still more detailed and the treble is actually the best I have heard in any headphone I have tried. 
  
 Soundstaging and imaging is no match. The HD800 is better period. There is no argument, the HD800 is simply king here. Imaging is more precise, on the HD800, but the HD700 was actually surprisingly good and not too far behind. The soundstage, however, is not that great on the HD700 and I was a bit disappointed here. 
  
 The HD800 also is more detailed and has better separation as well as clarity. The HD700 is no slouch though, and it does impressively. 
  
 I did not expect to like the HD700s so much, from all the negative reviews. I remember reading the flagship headphones review a while ago and saw the HD700 ranked behind the 600 and 650 and completely overlooked it. I have owned the HD600 twice and listened to the HD650 many times and I can confidently say the HD700 is much better. For me, they are not even close. They are a little better than the HE-500 IMO. I would say go and listen to them yourself before judging these, they are actually very nice, I think I will keep them (I try and a lot of stuff and sell it on), which is quite impressive. They are a great complement to the HD800 or the LCD series if you need a fun headphone that you can just enjoy the music on.


----------



## Madmollusk

lin0003 said:


> Off the V200 and M-DAC, here is my opinion on the HD800 vs the HD700.
> 
> The HD700 has more bass that punches harder but is still surprisingly fast and detailed. Mid-bass on the HD800 is not as heavy but it is cleaner and more detailed. The sub-bass is better on the HD800, it is cleaner and clearer. I do not find the HD800 bass light, it is very neutral and the HD700 are a little on the bassy side. I can see some people liking the HD700 bass more.
> 
> ...


 
 Great post. You should re-post this in the HD700 thread; I bet the folks over there would really appreciate this.


----------



## 62ohm

lin0003 said:


> Off the V200 and M-DAC, here is my opinion on the HD800 vs the HD700.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the insight mate, I guess I may like the HD700! I like the sound of Audezes very much, but the comfort factor is a total deal breaker for me. If the HD700 is close to the comfort of the HD800, then I can't overlook this can.


----------



## lin0003

madmollusk said:


> Great post. You should re-post this in the HD700 thread; I bet the folks over there would really appreciate this.


 
 Cheers. 
  
 Done.


----------



## lin0003

62ohm said:


> Thanks for the insight mate, I guess I may like the HD700! I like the sound of Audezes very much, but the comfort factor is a total deal breaker for me. If the HD700 is close to the comfort of the HD800, then I can't overlook this can.


 
 The HD700 is *almost* as good as the HD800. The HD800 disappears on your head and the HD700 almost does that, but doesn't quite do it as well as the HD800. They are one of the most comfortable headphones I've worn. 
  
 The 700s are like Sennheiser/Grado hybrids but leaning more to the Senn side.


----------



## purrin

++   =  *⇒*


----------



## lin0003

^^^^
  
 Lol


----------



## SoupRKnowva

I dunno...the hd700 treble has given me a headache within 15 minutes of putting them on every time I've tried them.


----------



## Moonhead

toddthemetalgod said:


> That's true, it's definitely the best headphone setup I will have heard. My speakers image fairly well, but the HD800 should beat them (obviously speakers and headphones have vastly different soundstage though). If I had a chance to use my speakers more often though, a pair of Totem Rainmaker might give the HD800 a run for it's money... my Emotiva is certainly better than my O2 .




Dude, If you want speakers giving you some of the details you get from HD800 you should avoid passive speakers.
Only good active speakers can compeer with headphones, even though it's not quite fair comparing them. 
And the best part is a good active speakers is often a lot cheaper than those old crap passive speakers the hifi industry try to trick you to buy.


----------



## Currawong

aive said:


> drdiem said:
> 
> 
> > Consequently I wonder whether an alternate flagship headphone might suit me better. I hope that (with the background of my personal preferences and personal experience of the HD800) I find the Audeze sound signature 'good enough' for me to let go of the Senn's technical perfection!
> ...


 
  
@marcoarment is here on the forums. He makes a good point I reckon, but I do wish he had listed the music he likes, as I reckon that makes the most difference when choosing headphones.
  
 A lot of impressions of the HD-800s with different gear not only comes down to the music, but what one is used to and has experienced.
  
 Best value so far though has been the HD-800s from the Geek Out and from the Valhalla 2.


----------



## MattTCG

currawong said:


> @marcoarment is here on the forums. He makes a good point I reckon, but I do wish he had listed the music he likes, as I reckon that makes the most difference when choosing headphones.
> 
> A lot of impressions of the HD-800s with different gear not only comes down to the music, but what one is used to and has experienced.
> 
> Best value so far though has been the HD-800s from the Geek Out and from the Valhalla 2.


 
  
 You don't include the Vali under "best value" category? Seems to be everyones favorite budget choice. I owned the Vali once but not since I've owned the hd800. Just curious.


----------



## Currawong

matttcg said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > @marcoarment is here on the forums. He makes a good point I reckon, but I do wish he had listed the music he likes, as I reckon that makes the most difference when choosing headphones.
> ...


 
  
 I've never had one here! The Valhalla 2 is the first Schiit product (ahem!) I've had in my possession, ever.


----------



## MattTCG

Wow...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I need to hook you up with this guy I know named Jason.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

moonhead said:


> Dude, If you want speakers giving you some of the details you get from HD800 you should avoid passive speakers.
> Only good active speakers can compeer with headphones, even though it's not quite fair comparing them.
> And the best part is a good active speakers is often a lot cheaper than those old crap passive speakers the hifi industry try to trick you to buy.


Honestly if I could go back, I probably would've just bought some really expensive, awesome active speakers. I don't upgrade speakers much so it wouldn't have made a difference. I prefer the number of options of brands for speakers with a passive setup though, and Emotiva amps are cheap... they make good headphone amps look expensive . I've heard the Totem Rainmaker and while the detail isn't on par with the HD800, it's not far and I would say the imaging/soundstage and timbre are. I love those speakers, but since I can't listen to speakers all the time the best choice was the HD800 .

I've heard some awesome passive speakers to be honest, Paradigm, Monitor Audio, Totem, etc. Quad and Epos are supposed to be good too, up there with Totem. I'm a lot more picky with speakers than headphones though, maybe that's why I like passive speakers... I don't settle with the mass marketed speakers that most sites/magazines push like Polk, Klipsch, JBL, etc.


----------



## MickeyVee

Nice review and comparison.  Pretty much spot on based my my previous experience.  The only reason I went to the HD800 is that I got a kick-butt deal on them (dealer cost through a friend).  I could truly have stopped at the HD700 and Bifrost/Lyr combo and saved myself thousands in upgrades trying to find a suitable HD800 system. Not regretting moving to the HD800 at all.  In fact, it's the longest I've owned a pair of HP's and they're here to stay.
  
  
 Quote:


lin0003 said:


> Off the V200 and M-DAC, here is my opinion on the HD800 vs the HD700.


----------



## MattTCG

I had the hd 700 for one week. There just wasn't much of anything I liked about them. The lyr didn't make them any better...maybe worse. I guess that we all hear things differently.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

If I wanted a solid state amp and USB DAC for the HD800 for $500-$700 CDN what would you guys suggest? It can be a single component or two, it doesn't make a difference to me. I'd appreciate any input .


----------



## Moonhead

toddthemetalgod said:


> If I wanted a solid state amp and USB DAC for the HD800 for $500-$700 CDN what would you guys suggest? It can be a single component or two, it doesn't make a difference to me. I'd appreciate any input .




I would suggest Questyle CMA800R as the ultimate amplifier, but is a little more than 700$ 
I have used one with hd800 and It was a killer combo.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

moonhead said:


> I would suggest Questyle CMA800R as the ultimate amplifier, but is a little more than 700$
> I have used one with hd800 and It was a killer combo.


Wow, expensive . I'm sure it does sound great though.


----------



## Moonhead

There a several secondhand in here actually, one in Canada to


----------



## SilverEars

Todd, I would have stayed alway from the 800 if the budget was one of your concerns. You're just going to run into people recommending expensive amps and dacs constantly.  It's an ego contest on this thread, there is a pattern you will obviously notice here.  I would have suggested HE-6 with used speaker amp for a high quality on the cheap, but good luck on the your 800 ventures as it turned out 800 wan't my cup of tea.


----------



## Maxvla

Matrix M-Stage HPA-2 w/USB $320

Schiit Modi + Vali $220

Schiit Bifrost USB + Valhalla 2 $800

The usual suggestions.


----------



## Moonhead

I forgot about this one, haven't tried it, but they seem to preferred it on innerfidelity with hd800.
As a bonus it doesn't cost that much.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/asus-xonar-essence-one-muses-edition-or-why-actually-listening-gear-important


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

silverears said:


> Todd, I would have stayed alway from the 800 if the budget was one of your concerns. You're just going to run into people recommending expensive amps and dacs constantly.  It's an ego contest on this thread, there is a pattern you will obviously notice here.  I would have suggested HE-6 with used speaker amp for a high quality on the cheap, but good luck on the your 800 ventures as it turned out 800 wan't my cup of tea.


I just don't see the point in getting that last 15% of sound quality if it's going to cost me $1000 or more. I'd much rather just spend $500 on a smooth solid state DAC/amp combination and be done.

If I wanted to get into an ego contest I would've bought some $1600 floor standing speakers . Fighting over who has the most expensive headphone gear is like fighting over who has the most expensive go-kart :rolleyes:. There are always people with BMW's, Lambourghini's, etc .

Thanks, I hope I'll enjoy them. I want to make this the end of my audio journey for a while. In a few years when I move somewhere larger and have more income I plan to get back into audio with high end speakers. Hopefully an HD800 setup will satisfy me until then .

Edit: Maybe I should get a Violectric V200 and be done with it. You guys are corrupting me and draining my wallet .


----------



## MattTCG

I have a few of the boys over today. We are testing the 800's on the Valhalla 2 and HA-1. Everything fed from the NAD m51. The Val2 has only warmed up for about 30 minutes. Just plugged the 800's into for the first. And...very interesting.


----------



## pearljam50000

Which is better with HD800, Modi or ODAC?


----------



## Moonhead

Well calling Questyle the ultimate wheee maybe pushing it, as it the only one I have heard with HD800.
Sounded quite good though. 

If I had do it over Again I guess I would have picked up 02 combo or Asus one or something in that genre, I have a feeling that maybe HD800 
Don't need than much power. I had a bad experience with Schiit Mjolnir so I just don't trust any of there products, but that's just me, lots 
Of people seem to love that brand.


----------



## SilverEars

moonhead said:


> Well calling Questyle the ultimate wheee maybe pushing it, as it the only one I have heard with HD800.
> Sounded quite good though.
> 
> If I had do it over Again I guess I would have picked up 02 combo or Asus one or something in that genre, I have a feeling that maybe HD800
> ...


 
 can you expand on this?  What was wrong with it?


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

matttcg said:


> I have a few of the boys over today. We are testing the 800's on the Valhalla 2 and HA-1. Everything fed from the NAD m51. The Val2 has only warmed up for about 30 minutes. Just plugged the 800's into for the first. And...very interesting.


Valhalla 2 is looking like my best option I guess . Get some nice tubes and it might be endgame. Perhaps a Sabre DAC with it?


----------



## kothganesh

silverears said:


> can you expand on this?  What was wrong with it?




My own 2 cents. The 800 and the Mojo just made for a very forward, sometimes harsh combination. I am also believer now of pairing the 800 with a tube amp like the BH Crack. FWIW.


----------



## Moonhead

Mjolnir feels very cheap built, especially the volume knot, It had scratches in the metal from new. 
Sound signature where beyond neutral and overly bright in the treble, IMO. 
That amp just looks, feels and sounds like a joke compering it to Questyle, IMO.


----------



## SilverEars

kothganesh said:


> My own 2 cents. The 800 and the Mojo just made for a very forward, sometimes harsh combination. I am also believer now of pairing the *800 with a tube amp like the BH Crack*. FWIW.


 
 Always comes up.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  What is it about BH do you feel helps the HD800?
  
 I personally think the 800 is forward natured in general.  Some amps that loosen the amp probably make it more tolerable with other genres of music.


----------



## kothganesh

silverears said:


> Always comes up.     What is it about BH do you feel helps the HD800?
> 
> I personally think the 800 is forward natured in general.  Some amps that loosen the amp probably make it more tolerable with other genres of music.




To my ears, the Crack gives a better extension to the bottom end. So the sound is more 3D. Naturally tubes matter so that's another variable to play with. The SS amps I have used that far sound colder and harsher.


----------



## zerodeefex

maxvla said:


> Matrix M-Stage HPA-2 w/USB $320
> 
> Schiit Modi + Vali $220
> 
> ...




Pretty much sums it up.

I'd wait for a used bifrost uber USB and Valhalla 2 to pop up. You'll be happy for a long time with this combo.


----------



## pearljam50000

How tubey is the vali with HD800?


----------



## zerodeefex

pearljam50000 said:


> How tubey is the vali with HD800?




Do you mean over smooth and euphonic? Not much at all. There's not the bass authority you get with much better amps, but it's also very very detailed and resolving, especially given the price.


----------



## pearljam50000

Good enough for me (;
Now all i need to decide is if to get the ODAC or Modi, with the Vali.


----------



## jrprana

@purrin

I don't see any Decware amps on your list.
Is it because they are not good enough with HD800, or is it because you haven't heard them?
I'm currently using Mjolnir, but thinking of getting a tube amp for HD800. Currently lookint at CSP3 or Sonett2.
Keeping Mjolnir for my HD650.


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> I have a few of the boys over today. We are testing the 800's on the Valhalla 2 and HA-1. Everything fed from the NAD m51. The Val2 has only warmed up for about 30 minutes. Just plugged the 800's into for the first. And...very interesting.


 
 Cool  Keep us informed. I'm defo getting interested in the Val2


----------



## zerodeefex

pearljam50000 said:


> Good enough for me (;
> Now all i need to decide is if to get the ODAC or Modi, with the Vali.




Whichever you can get cheaper. If you go with the ODAC, I'd get something like the Wyrd much sooner. I get noticeably different results based on the quality of my USB output. 

Alternatively, a friend and I both prefer the Geek Out 450 as DAC over the ODAC. I'd consider going that path. I use mine to a Krell Klone at work as a temporary DAC and it was a step up from the ODAC.


----------



## SilverEars

zerodeefex said:


> Whichever you can get cheaper. If you go with the ODAC, I'd get something like the Wyrd much sooner.* I get noticeably different results based on the quality of my USB output.*
> 
> Alternatively, a friend and I both prefer the Geek Out 450 as DAC over the ODAC. I'd consider going that path. I use mine to a Krell Klone at work as a temporary DAC and it was a step up from the ODAC.


 
 What is the difference you are noticing?  Is it a laptop?


----------



## skeptic

matttcg said:


> I have a few of the boys over today. We are testing the 800's on the Valhalla 2 and HA-1. Everything fed from the NAD m51. The Val2 has only warmed up for about 30 minutes. Just plugged the 800's into for the first. And...very interesting.




Matt - if possible, can you give us a quick comparison of the val2 vs your crack with speedball via the m51?

val2 is an interesting amp, but I assume it must use global feedback to get its output impedance down to the published specs. I tend to think of feedback as anathema to OTL SET amps, but maybe I'm just drinking the bottlehead kool-aid. What's your conclusion after a back to back?


----------



## zerodeefex

silverears said:


> zerodeefex said:
> 
> 
> > Whichever you can get cheaper. If you go with the ODAC, I'd get something like the Wyrd much sooner. *I get noticeably different results based on the quality of my USB output.*
> ...




Sounds congested and less resolving straight out of my old macbook air and other notebooks compared to my desktop. Once I get it back, I'll test my macbook pro and surface pro 3 USB out with and without the Wyrd


----------



## SilverEars

zerodeefex said:


> Sounds congested and less resolving straight out of my old macbook air and other notebooks compared to my desktop. Once I get it back, I'll test my macbook pro and surface pro 3 USB out with and without the Wyrd


 
 I once had this happen out of a usb port I know doesn't output enough current, tried another port on the same DESKTOP.  I've heard about air not putting out enough power for GeekOut1000, not sure how it fares with providing enough power for the ODAC.  I also tried my smartphone with ODAC, not enough current to it.
  
 If you have access to a desktop, you should test out the ODAC on it vs Wyrd.  Pro would probably be more reliable in terms of current output ability.


----------



## marcoarment

currawong said:


> @marcoarment is here on the forums. He makes a good point I reckon, but I do wish he had listed the music he likes, as I reckon that makes the most difference when choosing headphones.
> 
> A lot of impressions of the HD-800s with different gear not only comes down to the music, but what one is used to and has experienced.
> 
> Best value so far though has been the HD-800s from the Geek Out and from the Valhalla 2.


 
  
 I mostly listen to rock albums from the '90s forward, with preferences toward live albums and anything well-recorded using acoustic instruments, and also a very large quantity of the official live releases of Phish's current and recent tours. Some of my go-to tests for headphone quality and enjoyment:
  

Phish. Lots of Phish. Occasional other jam bands: Yonder Mountain String Band, Moe, String Cheese Incident, all primarily their live shows.
All of The Avett Brothers' studio albums, especially Emotionalism (which is far too hot on the treble, and the only high-end headphone I've found that makes it tolerable is the HE-6) and the properly-mastered Second Gleam and The Carpenter
Joe Pug's Messenger
Counting Crows' Saturday Nights And Sunday Mornings and all of their live albums
The Milk Carton Kids' Live From Lincoln Theatre video
Alice In Chains' MTV Unplugged (which I'd say is better than Nirvana's in both sound quality and content, despite Nirvana being the better overall band)
Some great classic rock and folk like The Last Waltz, Joni Mitchell's Blue, Simon and Garfunkel, and Neil Young Live at Massey Hall 1971 (amazing)
Some occasional Mumford & Sons or Decemberists
Plus a bunch of '90s–present rock bands like Foo Fighters, Eve 6, Crash Test Dummies, Social Distortion, Stroke 9, SR-71, Meat Puppets, etc., much of which sounds awful on most flagship headphones
  
 In other words: what most people would consider an absolutely horrible, out of touch, and mostly outdated music collection. But I love it.
  
 My main complaint with the HD 800 is that its overall technical excellence comes at the cost of personality. I thought I wanted neutrality for years... until I got it. It's a great headphone at achieving technical perfection of a style that, as it turns out, I don't really care for: smoothness, with a mostly laid-back sound signature, light bass, and relatively little excitement. You're left with little to complain about, but nothing stands out. And it lacks the treble finesse and fast decay usually found in orthos and stats to provide a "wow!" level of detail.
  
 But even the article you referred to is relatively out of date: since then, I rented and then bought an HE-6, renting it with the EF-6 amp (which was great) and then buying a used Schiit Mjolnir from here (which is almost as good as the EF-6 at powering the HE-6) to tide me over until the Ragnarok is widely available. I believe the HE-6 is the better-sounding headphone on nearly all fronts, and it brings _excitement_ and _energy_ to the music without significant technical flaws or tonal imbalances. (It also made me realize how nice a good midrange is, and how recessed the midrange often is in other headphones.)
  
 The HD 800 beats the HE-6 in soundstage, comfort, and amp-friendliness, but I greatly prefer the HE-6's sound. (And it's not _un_comfortable on me, just heavier.) But if you're looking for a great overall-setup value in a flagship headphone, I don't think you can look at any of the orthos, and especially not the HE-6, because of their amp needs. You can drive the HD 800 well enough from amps that cost less than $300, while I think the $750 Mjolnir is the cheapest amp that can drive the HE-6 respectably. So, all in, you can get a great HD 800 setup for about $1800+DAC, whereas you're looking at $2100+DAC minimum for the HE-6.
  
 (Of course, if you're looking to maximize value near the high end, you're probably better off skipping both and taking a good look at an HE-560 setup.)


----------



## SilverEars

I know what time period you are from.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I personally think it's much more musical than what's popular now.  Music is great from that period, it's just that the recording doesn't seem too be as great as the earlier periods.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

Just because terrible music is popular doesn't mean there isn't a ton of great modern music though. I mostly used to listen to music from the 90's and early 2000's until I scoured Youtube for new music and uncovered entire genres I didn't know I would enjoy. I don't really judge any time period based on music anymore, there is probably artists from every time period I would like if I knew them.


----------



## koiloco

silverears said:


> I know what time period you are from.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Not going to agree with you on this one.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


toddthemetalgod said:


> Just because terrible music is popular doesn't mean there isn't a ton of great modern music though. I mostly used to listen to music from the 90's and early 2000's until I scoured Youtube for new music and uncovered entire genres I didn't know I would enjoy. I don't really judge any time period based on music anymore, there is probably artists from every time period I would like if I knew them.


 
 This, I agree with 100%


----------



## SilverEars

Yes, there has been good and bad mastering in every generation, but my point is that popular music charts had more musical tracks back then than what you see on the top charts now.  Yes, it's relative, but just my personal opinion.


----------



## Madmollusk

matttcg said:


> I have a few of the boys over today. We are testing the 800's on the Valhalla 2 and HA-1. Everything fed from the NAD m51. The Val2 has only warmed up for about 30 minutes. Just plugged the 800's into for the first. And...very interesting.


 
 The suspense is killing me, Matt!!


----------



## MattTCG

I'll give some quick thoughts now. Please remember that when you have people over to your place to audition gear, you spend most of your time hosting and very little time listening. Tonight and tomorrow I'll spend more time evaluating the new gear and will share more detailed impressions. 
  
 *The Val 2 is the real deal, especially with the hd800. This pairing was my favorite of all. 
  
 *The Crack is still king with the hd650/600 but the Val 2 gave it a real run. 
  
 *NAD m51...if there is any way you can afford it, get it.


----------



## Madmollusk

matttcg said:


> I'll give some quick thoughts now. Please remember that when you have people over to your place to audition gear, you spend most of your time hosting and very little time listening. Tonight and tomorrow I'll spend more time evaluating the new gear and will share more detailed impressions.
> 
> *The Val 2 is the real deal, especially with the hd800. This pairing was my favorite of all.
> 
> ...


 
 Sweet! I appreciate the update. Thanks a million.


----------



## MickeyVee

Cr@p! I just may have to give the Valhalla 2 a try and see how it compares to the WA6.  Matt, are you using stock tubes? Between your and Purrin's recommendation, gotta give it a try.
  
 Quote:


matttcg said:


> *The Val 2 is the real deal, especially with the hd800. This pairing was my favorite of all.


----------



## drez

marcoarment said:


> I mostly listen to rock albums from the '90s forward, with preferences toward live albums and anything well-recorded using acoustic instruments, and also a very large quantity of the official live releases of Phish's current and recent tours. Some of my go-to tests for headphone quality and enjoyment:
> 
> 
> Phish. Lots of Phish. Occasional other jam bands: Yonder Mountain String Band, Moe, String Cheese Incident, all primarily their live shows.
> ...




Eh, my experience was different. Had HE6 for a while powered by Master6. IME the HE6 was the headphone leaning towards smoothness, richer tonality, more full bodied, and actually with less dynamic contrast when used with that amplifier. I found HD800, with that amplifier, were better able to render dynamic contrast ie contrast between delicate, softer sounds and more forceful, louder sounds. IMO though Master6 didn't have enough power/grip for HE6...


----------



## MattTCG

mickeyvee said:


>


 
  
 Yes, stock tubes. This amp is WAY too green for me to look at swapping tubes yet.


----------



## Justin_Time

marcoarment said:


> I mostly listen to rock albums from the '90s forward, with preferences toward live albums and anything well-recorded using acoustic instruments, and also a very large quantity of the official live releases of Phish's current and recent tours. Some of my go-to tests for headphone quality and enjoyment:
> 
> 
> Phish. Lots of Phish. Occasional other jam bands: Yonder Mountain String Band, Moe, String Cheese Incident, all primarily their live shows.
> ...


 
 I completely agree with you last statement:  the HE-560 has excellent Quality-to-Price ratio. In terms of performance, it nibbling at the heels of the HE-6
  
 I will respectfully disagree with your first statement completely:  except for an inherent tendency toward sibilance, the HD800 is pretty transparent and mostly takes on the "personality" of the recording and the associated components in your system (source, DAC, amp and cable). So it pays to get to know the inherent strengths and weaknesses of the HD800 first then take great care in selecting the right associated components to achieve the "sound" that you like.
  
 I spent over a year matching cables and amps with the HD800 (and PS1000, LCD3 and HE-6.  They all have their own quirks).  You may find a long discussion in the High-End forum:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/729976/matching-headphones-cables-amplifiers-harder-than-it-should-be-very-long-post
  
 You may also find a shorter discussion on just the amps for the HD800 in:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/513277/hd-800-amp-discussion/90#post_10783849 
  
 Finally, the HE-6 IS very uncomfortable to me in (hard ear-pads and too much clamping force) in addition to being very heavy.  I found that using the new HE-560 Focus or Focus-A ear-pads (~$30) reduces much of the discomfort. The LCD3 lambskin ear-pads are even more comfortable but a tad too large, off color (dark brown) and expensive (~$100).  In both cases, the sound of the HE-6 improves.


----------



## Sonido

moonhead said:


> I would suggest Questyle CMA800R as the ultimate amplifier, but is a little more than 700$
> I have used one with hd800 and It was a killer combo.


 
  


toddthemetalgod said:


> Wow, expensive
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Baby Questyle is $650 and it has a DAC as well: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/tight-and-tasty-questyle-q192-dacheadphone-amp


----------



## marcoarment

justin_time said:


> Finally, the HE-6 IS very uncomfortable to me in (hard ear-pads and too much clamping force) in addition to being very heavy.  I found that using the new HE-560 Focus or Focus-A ear-pads (~$30) reduces much of the discomfort.


 
  
 I ordered Focus pads along with the HE-6 to compare with the stock pads and found them fine overall except for one big problem: the padding "ring" is wider than the stock pads', so the inner "hole" diameter is much smaller. That made enough size difference that my ears no longer fully fit inside, and made parts of the "ring" press against my ear uncomfortably. I went back to the stock pads after about 20 minutes.
  
 I admit that I've only heard the HD 800s on three amps — Bottlehead Crack, EF-6, and Asgard 2 — so I may not be giving them a fair chance yet. If I'd only heard the HE-6 on an amp that wasn't ideal for them (like the vast majority of all headphone amps), I wouldn't have a fair opinion of them, either. But I have to wonder why so many people, including people with very nice amps, make similar complaints as mine about the HD 800.
  
 It's still an amazing headphone — just not my taste. I had almost the same opinion of the widely loved HD 650: recognition that it's good, but I don't like it.


----------



## koiloco

marcoarment said:


> I ordered Focus pads along with the HE-6 to compare with the stock pads and found them fine overall except for one big problem: the padding "ring" is wider than the stock pads', so the inner "hole" diameter is much smaller. That made enough size difference that my ears no longer fully fit inside, and made parts of the "ring" press against my ear uncomfortably. I went back to the stock pads after about 20 minutes.
> 
> *I admit that I've only heard the HD 800s on three amps — Bottlehead Crack, EF-6, and Asgard 2 —* so I may not be giving them a fair chance yet. If I'd only heard the HE-6 on an amp that wasn't ideal for them (like the vast majority of all headphone amps), I wouldn't have a fair opinion of them, either. But I have to wonder why so many people, including people with very nice amps, make similar complaints as mine about the HD 800.
> 
> It's still an amazing headphone — just not my taste. I had almost the same opinion of the widely loved HD 650: recognition that it's good, but I don't like it.


 
 Then you really haven't heard what the HD800s can really do.  Out of the 3 amps you mentioned, IMO, only the Crack start scratching the surface of the HD800s potential.  At first, I thought the same about HD800 like you do;  typically, not my taste or what the heck are these people raving about ......It took me a while to realize and understand why HD800s have earned its reputation.
 I love HE-6 very much too and don't find it very uncomfortable but after having HD800 for a while, the urge to get HE-6 keeps diminishing.
 I also decided to sell my HE-500.


----------



## lojay

Out of my main headphones (SR009, HE6 and HD800), the HD800 gets the least headtime and the HE6 the most. 
  
 And I have heard what the HD800 "can do". Maybe not the absolute best performance ever (e.g. driven by the Pinnacle, EC BA or EC 4-45) but when it comes to top flight amps I doubt the differences exceed 10%. I agree the HD800 sounds amazing on my premium tubes + WA5 compared to my previous amps or even the WA5 without the tubes I have now.
  
 But it boils down to what sort of music you play most of the time. I have an eclectic range of music and I like discovering new music on Spotify, most of which is poorly recorded. HD800 is amazing for well recorded music and orchestral pieces in general. In fact, I can say that HD800 might be better on some 1% of my music collection (the well recorded stuff) compared to the HE6 and sometimes the SR009 (if we are talking about soundstage, imaging and grandness). However, for most of the music I listen to, I will reach for the HE6 and SR009 instead of the HD800. Maybe an Anax mod is in order, but still, I doubt that the HD800 as modded would trump the HE6 in terms of sheer visceral power that sounds so good with modern day music and rock, and the sheer airiness and effortlessness of the SR009 that has to be heard to be appreciated.
  
 FYI I am driving all three headphones with the WA5 (with an electrostatic tranny for the SR009).


----------



## koiloco

^ SR009 driven by a good amp will be a step up from from HD800, IMO.  HE-6 vs HD800 will depend on personal preference, music genre and of course, source quality.  If I ever go for a Stax setup, it would be the SR009 and Blue Hawaii.


----------



## SilverEars

I'm with both of you on this.  It's preference and what music you prefer.  Since I had the HD800, my search for music has changed, and I looked for classic or jazz or audiophile recordings.  I have lots of other genres I enjoy, and wasn't enjoying them out of the 800.  800 is probably a headphone in collection for enjoying certain genres.  I have resolving setup that does more genres well, and felt the same about the HE-6 and it worked well with an amp that provided enough power.


----------



## Justin_Time

marcoarment said:


> I ordered Focus pads along with the HE-6 to compare with the stock pads and found them fine overall except for one big problem: the padding "ring" is wider than the stock pads', so the inner "hole" diameter is much smaller. That made enough size difference that my ears no longer fully fit inside, and made parts of the "ring" press against my ear uncomfortably. I went back to the stock pads after about 20 minutes.
> 
> I admit that I've only heard the HD 800s on three amps — Bottlehead Crack, EF-6, and Asgard 2 — so I may not be giving them a fair chance yet. If I'd only heard the HE-6 on an amp that wasn't ideal for them (like the vast majority of all headphone amps), I wouldn't have a fair opinion of them, either. But I have to wonder why so many people, including people with very nice amps, make similar complaints as mine about the HD 800.
> 
> It's still an amazing headphone — just not my taste. I had almost the same opinion of the widely loved HD 650: recognition that it's good, but I don't like it.


 
 You're quite right. The HE-6 pads measure 6 cm x 51/2 cm on the inside.  The new Focus pads measure 5 1/2 cm around.  You may want o try the LCD3 Lambskin pads which are bigger (6 3/4 cm x 5 1/4 cm), with elongated shapes that fit the ears better. They also are ultra- soft and seal better--and cost 3 times more!
  
 Below are lists of amps I have listened to for at least a year with the HD800. You'll see that it is not a simple matter of quality but also one of correct sonic match:
  
Poor Matches
  
 Bryston BHA-1 (dull)
 Burson HA-160D (bright & hard)
 Burson Soloist (hard; 2D)
HiFiMAN EF6 (hard; sibilant)
 Oppo HA-1 (bright) only a few months
 RS Dark Star (very bright)
 Schiit Mjolnir (fatiguing)
  
Good Matches
  
Bakoon HPA-21 (warm, vivid details)
 Cavalli Liquid Fire (good overall)
 EAR HP-4 (lush sound; my favorite)
 Red Wine Audio Corvina/Bellina (warm)
Vioelectric V200 (neutral & smooth)
 Woo WA5-LE (best overall; gonzo bass)
  
 Of course, those short descriptions do not do the amps justice but will have to do to keep it short.


----------



## BournePerfect

The WA5LE with upgraded tubes is not even in my top 5 amps for the HD800s-yet cost significantly more than the others I preferred to it. Not a good match imo, and definitely doesn't bring the HD800s to their potential.

-Daniel


----------



## paradoxper

If you're going to name off amps and how well they pair, er, or don't - could you please include your source(s).


----------



## lojay

bourneperfect said:


> The WA5LE with upgraded tubes is not even in my top 5 amps for the HD800s-yet cost significantly more than the others I preferred to it. Not a good match imo, and definitely doesn't bring the HD800s to their potential.
> 
> -Daniel




That might explain my distaste for the HD800 on the WA5. And I agree about your comments on cost. I would have never bought the WA5 new.

Might i ask, which 5 amps do you prefer with the HD800, with what source and why?


----------



## BournePerfect

lojay said:


> That might explain my distaste for the HD800 on the WA5. And I agree about your comments on cost. I would have never bought the WA5 new.
> 
> Might i ask, which 5 amps do you prefer with the HD800, with what source and why?


 
  
 I used the Eximus DP1 (from SBT w/ EDO) with all amps, as well as a couple of others occasionally. I preferred the ZDSE (by a landslide), Luxman P1u, Taboo mkII, Bryston BHA-1, and Master 8 off the top of my head. Basically I didn't like what the WA5LE (or 300Bs ) did to the Senns. Everything sounded...bloated...for lack of a better descriptor here. Bloated, rounded on the bass and most everything else. It did have a big ss and good tonality-but those are about the only positives I can say for it. The Vali of all thing's reminds me of a poor man's WA5 bass, good tone, and decent transparency.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## 62ohm

justin_time said:


> Below are lists of amps I have listened to for at least a year with the HD800. You'll see that it is not a simple matter of quality but also one of correct sonic match:
> 
> Poor Matches
> 
> ...


 
  
 Interesting, although I only auditioned them for about an hour or two, I much preferred the BHA-1 to the V200 (tried them several times with different DACs: Cambridge DM100 & Auralic Vega).


----------



## Justin_Time

62ohm said:


> Interesting, although I only auditioned them for about an hour or two, I much preferred the BHA-1 to the V200 (tried them several times with different DACs: Cambridge DM100 & Auralic Vega).


 
 You can probably blame that on different taste.  
  
 I just find the BHA-1 oddly dull in the mid-range with both the PS1000 (probably due to the U-shape voicing) and to a lesser extent the HD800, that one for unknown reason to me.  One thing, though, I have used only either the Oppo 95 /105 or the PS Audio PerfectWave transport and DAC.


----------



## Justin_Time

paradoxper said:


> If you're going to name off amps and how well they pair, er, or don't - could you please include your source(s).


 
 I not sure without a quote but I am guessing that this post was addressed to me.
  
 I am also a little confused about what you meant by "source(s)."  
  
 In responding to *62ohm*, I was merely expressing _my own opinion_ about the sounds of headphones and amps that I own and have listened to for over a year (I rarely discuss first impression except in the case the Oppo HA-1 that I bought only a few months ago when they just came out.  It was so indicated in the list). I am not reporting anyone else's opinion so I am afraid _I have no source(s)_.
  
 But perhaps you meant audio sources.  In that case, I have used mostly the Oppo 95/105 for SACD and the PS Audio PerfectWave Transport and DAC.  Occasionally I used the Wadia 121 as my desk-top DAC.
  
 By the way, the above lists are summaries of a very long post I recently wrote about my experience trying to match headphones, cables and amps in the High-End Forum. 
  
 I hope that clears it up.


----------



## lojay

bourneperfect said:


> I used the Eximus DP1 (from SBT w/ EDO) with all amps, as well as a couple of others occasionally. I preferred the ZDSE (by a landslide), Luxman P1u, Taboo mkII, Bryston BHA-1, and Master 8 off the top of my head. Basically I didn't like what the WA5LE (or 300Bs ) did to the Senns. Everything sounded...bloated...for lack of a better descriptor here. Bloated, rounded on the bass and most everything else. It did have a big ss and good tonality-but those are about the only positives I can say for it. The Vali of all thing's reminds me of a poor man's WA5 bass, good tone, and decent transparency.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 The WA5 is great for tube rolling because it's sound changes drastically with tube changes, even the cheaper driver tubes. A pair of very expensive Sylvania 6SN7W metal bases makes the amp sound unbearable. The Tungsols make it sing. Different tubes make the WA5 sound like a different amp.
  
 Not the first time I've read that the EC amps beat the WA5 noticeably but none of the people have my tube combinations. That is one reason _not_ to buy the WA5 though - like other Woo amps it takes a lot of splurging on tubes to get a good combination. I remember that the WA5 sounded not much better than my Little Dot (jesus...) with stock tubes. But I've heard that EC amps sound spectacular even in stock form.
  
 Different ears as well. Your bloated might be someone else's "lush" and "romantic". 
  
 Maybe I should ask my friend to lend his P1u to do a detailed shootout some day. Or order a EC 4-45


----------



## M-13

How is the Beyerdynamic A1 amp with the HD800?
  
 I had a very extended session with the HD800 on the A1 amp yesterday and came away kind of not impressed. I was using my DX90 as the source and my own music and to my ears my K812 sounded better straight out of the DX90 headphone out.
  
 The HD800 was okay and probably would have been impressive if I had not come to know the K812 for the last few months. My guess is that the A1 wasn't up to the task of showing me what the H800 can really do but my impression was that the K812 has better resolution across the board, including bass resolution/texture and more even sounding/neutral overall. The HD800 sounded a little peaky/sibillant at times (very minor though) but was also quite even sounding/neutral. The HD800 sounded quite similar to the K812, well balanced except that that slight peakiness and the bass lacked a little definition/slam compared to the K812. I do feel like I would have been a lot more impressed coming straight from the LCD-2/HE-500 instead of months with the K812.


----------



## BournePerfect

lojay said:


> The WA5 is great for tube rolling because it's sound changes drastically with tube changes, even the cheaper driver tubes. A pair of very expensive Sylvania 6SN7W metal bases makes the amp sound unbearable. The Tungsols make it sing. Different tubes make the WA5 sound like a different amp.
> 
> Not the first time I've read that the EC amps beat the WA5 noticeably but none of the people have my tube combinations. That is one reason _not_ to buy the WA5 though - like other Woo amps it takes a lot of splurging on tubes to get a good combination. I remember that the WA5 sounded not much better than my Little Dot (jesus...) with stock tubes. But I've heard that EC amps sound spectacular even in stock form.
> 
> ...




All in all I had over a grand in various tube upgrades for the WA5LE, so it's not like I didn't put the time and $$ into it. I never found a combo that did the HD800 justice-and the P1u I had at the time beat it easily for my preferences-although I wouldn't consider either of them end game by any stretch.

Btw Craig's amps usually have absolute trash stock tubes-the ZDSE no exception.

-Daniel


----------



## lojay

bourneperfect said:


> All in all I had over a grand in various tube upgrades for the WA5LE, so it's not like I didn't put the time and $$ into it. I never found a combo that did the HD800 justice-and the P1u I had at the time beat it easily for my preferences-although I wouldn't consider either of them end game by any stretch.
> 
> Btw Craig's amps usually have absolute trash stock tubes-the ZDSE no exception.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Not trying to be defensive, but I might be crazy having spent more on tubes than that of the amp itself. That's why I say it's a good reason _against_ buying the WA5, for most it's simply not worth it. But heck, it's not like I can't sell the tubes in the used market (we have a good used market for 300Bs in Hong Kong) or when I get some 300B monos for my speaker rig.
  
 I kind of agree that the WA5 doesn't perhaps do the HD800 justice (which is why my HD800s are dusty) but that might also be because I have the HE-6s which the WA5 drive well. I still think my setup does better than the P1u but then its my ears, my source and my music preferences.
  
 Would you consider the recent EC's end game by any chance? I'm having these in serious consideration but only the ECBA uses the tubes that I have.
  
 For the casual reader I don't want to mislead you, none of this means I think the WA5s are end-game for the HD800s. Look elsewhere for something cheaper that drives the HD800s better.


----------



## kothganesh

matttcg said:


> I'll give some quick thoughts now. Please remember that when you have people over to your place to audition gear, you spend most of your time hosting and very little time listening. Tonight and tomorrow I'll spend more time evaluating the new gear and will share more detailed impressions.
> 
> *The Val 2 is the real deal, especially with the hd800. This pairing was my favorite of all.
> 
> ...


 
 Matt,
 thanks for the compare. Time to get the Valhalla 2 for the 800?


----------



## 62ohm

Now I am deeply interested in trying out the Valhalla 2..


----------



## aive

marcoarment said:


> I ordered Focus pads along with the HE-6 to compare with the stock pads and found them fine overall except for one big problem: the padding "ring" is wider than the stock pads', so the inner "hole" diameter is much smaller. That made enough size difference that my ears no longer fully fit inside, and made parts of the "ring" press against my ear uncomfortably. I went back to the stock pads after about 20 minutes.
> 
> I admit that I've only heard the HD 800s on three amps — Bottlehead Crack, EF-6, and Asgard 2 — so I may not be giving them a fair chance yet. If I'd only heard the HE-6 on an amp that wasn't ideal for them (like the vast majority of all headphone amps), I wouldn't have a fair opinion of them, either. But I have to wonder why so many people, including people with very nice amps, make similar complaints as mine about the HD 800.
> 
> It's still an amazing headphone — just not my taste. I had almost the same opinion of the widely loved HD 650: recognition that it's good, but I don't like it.




Hey marco why the change from th900s to the HE6? Thought you were happy with the th900.. Your sr009s on their way to be replaced too?


----------



## Zoom25

toddthemetalgod said:


> If I wanted a solid state amp and USB DAC for the HD800 for $500-$700 CDN what would you guys suggest? It can be a single component or two, it doesn't make a difference to me. I'd appreciate any input
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Dangerous Music Source - perhaps ask for used from retailers like Economik or Long & McQuade. Also, call them personally to get a better deal. Works especially well with HD800.


----------



## Justin_Time

m-13 said:


> How is the Beyerdynamic A1 amp with the HD800?
> 
> I had a very extended session with the HD800 on the A1 amp yesterday and came away kind of not impressed. I was using my DX90 as the source and my own music and to my ears my K812 sounded better straight out of the DX90 headphone out.
> 
> The HD800 was okay and probably would have been impressive if I had not come to know the K812 for the last few months. My guess is that the A1 wasn't up to the task of showing me what the H800 can really do but my impression was that the K812 has better resolution across the board, including bass resolution/texture and more even sounding/neutral overall. The HD800 sounded a little peaky/sibillant at times (very minor though) but was also quite even sounding/neutral. The HD800 sounded quite similar to the K812, well balanced except that that slight peakiness and the bass lacked a little definition/slam compared to the K812. I do feel like I would have been a lot more impressed coming straight from the LCD-2/HE-500 instead of months with the K812.


 
 It looks like I have to check out the K812.  At the very least, AKG seems to have come a long way in terms of look since the K1000.
  
 I did two things to the HD800 that seemed to help reduce if not eliminate the sibilance/hardness issues.  
  
 First I applied the Anaxilus mod, which reduced the sibilance/hardness problem by a noticeable amount. Second, I replaced the stock cable with the Copper Venom from Toxic Cables (OCC copper; 22AWG rectangular wires; cryo treatment).  The sibilance/hardness problem was reduced to a minimal level with a bonus boost in the upper-bass and slightly more warmth in the midrange.  
  
 After that, the HD800 seemed to get along with most amps pretty well, though tube/hybrid amps still complement the voicing of the HD800 best.  
  
 Have you seen this new HD800 look from ColorWare? The HD800 G, limited to 10 units. #1, 2, 7 and 10 are no longer available.


----------



## LugBug1




----------



## marcoarment

aive said:


> Hey marco why the change from th900s to the HE6? Thought you were happy with the th900.. Your sr009s on their way to be replaced too?


 
  
 I'm keeping the TH900 for now because it's the best closed-ish headphone I've ever heard and I do need to use closed headphones sometimes, although it has relatively little isolation both ways for a "closed" headphone. The HE-6 serves my open role: the best sound quality, which I can enjoy only when I'm able to use open headphones (about half the time).
  
 SR-009s are still in the repair process for the channel imbalance — I only got 4 days worth of use out of them before it started. The repair will supposedly take months and may not even fix the problem. I can't possibly overstate how disappointed I am in that purchase so far, and I can tell you that the quality difference is definitely not worth the high extra cost and inability to deal with the regular retail and warranty chain. (I made it worse by buying through PriceJapan, but it's not _that_ much better than buying through a US retailer — you need to wait months before they even arrive, many still have the channel imbalance, and all repairs still need to go back to Stax Japan for months.)
  
 Even when they return, I probably won't be able to enjoy them very much because I'm so angry at Stax's poor quality control, obtuse and condescending repair process, and continued denial that this is a real problem that appears to be affecting as many as 5–10% of SR-009s sold, according to PriceJapan (who sell a lot of them). That's why I'm likely to just sell them, and the KGSSHV, when they eventually return… if they're actually fixed.
  
 Now that I've been hit by the channel imbalance and discovered how great the HE-6 is with an appropriate amp, I can't recommend buying the SR-009. The HE-6/EF-6 combo ($3000) costs less than half as much as the SR-009 and a good electrostatic amp (~$6500 minimum if you go PriceJapan, $8000+ if not), gets you almost the same overall sound quality and better bass, sounds great with more music, and is always in stock from a US retailer with excellent customer support and warranties (Head Direct).
  
 (Sorry for hijacking the 800 thread. You can get back to that now.)


----------



## whirlwind

lugbug1 said:


>


 
 LMAO!!!
  
 Those are incredible looking.


----------



## LugBug1

whirlwind said:


> LMAO!!!
> 
> Those are incredible looking.


 
 They are absolutely stunning.


----------



## zerodeefex

incredibly gaudy looking is what you mean, right?


----------



## marcoarment

lugbug1 said:


> They are absolutely stunning.


 
  
 If by "stunning" you mean "left me unable to move or speak", then yes.


----------



## LugBug1

Wonder if its real gold! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  24 carrots!


----------



## marcoarment

lugbug1 said:


> Wonder if its real gold!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think being coated in 24 carrots would be an improvement.


----------



## kothganesh

marcoarment said:


> I think being coated in 24 carrots would be an improvement.



Sure improves the eyesight !


----------



## LugBug1




----------



## SilverEars




----------



## icebear

lugbug1 said:


> Wonder if its real gold!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 But not cryo treated, please - I hate mushy sound when they come to room temperature again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Moonhead

marcoarment said:


> I'm keeping the TH900 for now because it's the best closed-ish headphone I've ever heard and I do need to use closed headphones sometimes, although it has relatively little isolation both ways for a "closed" headphone. The HE-6 serves my open role: the best sound quality, which I can enjoy only when I'm able to use open headphones (about half the time).
> 
> SR-009s are still in the repair process for the channel imbalance — I only got 4 days worth of use out of them before it started. The repair will supposedly take months and may not even fix the problem. I can't possibly overstate how disappointed I am in that purchase so far, and I can tell you that the quality difference is definitely not worth the high extra cost and inability to deal with the regular retail and warranty chain. (I made it worse by buying through PriceJapan, but it's not _that_ much better than buying through a US retailer — you need to wait months before they even arrive, many still have the channel imbalance, and all repairs still need to go back to Stax Japan for months.)
> 
> ...


----------



## purrin

jrprana said:


> @purrin
> 
> I don't see any Decware amps on your list.
> Is it because they are not good enough with HD800, or is it because you haven't heard them?
> ...


 
  
 I liked the Mini Torii? with HD800s when I heard it years ago. It was very a lushing sounding euphonic amp with good technicalities. I was familar with source or recordings used so I cannot say much more.
  
 Sonnet2 should probably be there on the list. HD800 works out of the box with it. Same sonic signature as Stratus, but plays it more straight because it lacks the DHTs. The Stratus' DHT sound is like an all body massage.


----------



## purrin

marcoarment said:


> My main complaint with the HD 800 is that its overall technical excellence comes at the cost of personality. I thought I wanted neutrality for years... until I got it. It's a great headphone at achieving technical perfection of a style that, as it turns out, I don't really care for: smoothness, with a mostly laid-back sound signature, light bass, and relatively little excitement.


 

  
 What you say is true - this why many say tubes (good tube sound, not gooey tube sound). You already have Asgard2 and Mojo. Try Vahalla 2. May just not be your cup of tea.


----------



## purrin

skeptic said:


> val2 is an interesting amp, but I assume it must use global feedback to get its output impedance down to the published specs. I tend to think of feedback as anathema to OTL SET amps, but maybe I'm just drinking the bottlehead kool-aid. What's your conclusion after a back to back?


 
  
 val2 uses feedback to out its output Z down. you are not drinking bottlehead kool-aid, but word anathema is too strong, and there are many other considerations in design. still i would use high Z headphones for val2 at highest Z output switch - where it excels. the ZERO or absolutely NO feedback thing is nonsense. it depends on the tube. the tubes used in the ECZD requires a ton of feedback for it to be linear. some of the big boy tube amps use a slight amount of feedback. trust me, i've played with this stuff - it a matter of balancing one thing with another. sort of like do i want to add 120lbs of supercharger (with 50 lbs of intercooler in front of the front axle) to the front of car with 200 hp for moar power. I get more power, but crappier weight distribution. it's a matter of what you want to do and getting the best balance for that application.


----------



## SilverEars

purrin said:


> *val2 uses feedback to out its output Z down*. you are not drinking bottlehead kool-aid, but word anathema is too strong, and there are many other considerations in design. still i would use high Z headphones for val2 at highest Z output switch - where it excels. the ZERO or absolutely NO feedback thing is nonsense. it depends on the tube. the tubes used in the ECZD requires a ton of feedback for it to be linear. some of the big boy tube amps use a slight amount of feedback. trust me, i've played with this stuff - it a matter of balancing one thing with another. sort of like do i want to add 120lbs of supercharger (with 50 lbs of intercooler in front of the front axle) to the front of car with 200 hp for moar power. I get more power, but crappier weight distribution. it's a matter of what you want to do and getting the best balance for that application.


 
 This is a first I've heard of this concept.  Can you expand on this?  Is there literature out there regarding this?


----------



## Eee Pee

I ain't one to fluff tails, but purrin, you're good.


----------



## jrprana

purrin said:


> I liked the Mini Torii? with HD800s when I heard it years ago. It was very a lushing sounding euphonic amp with good technicalities. I was familar with source or recordings used so I cannot say much more.
> 
> Sonnet2 should probably be there on the list. HD800 works out of the box with it. Same sonic signature as Stratus, but plays it more straight because it lacks the DHTs. The Stratus' DHT sound is like an all body massage.




Thanks Marv


----------



## OJNeg

http://www.tubecad.com/october99/page4.html
  
 https://www.cavalliaudio.com/diy/docs/WCFOptimization.pdf
  
 Valhalla 2 indeed uses this topology, as they mention on their spec page. Read through that Cavalli white paper as I think it explains it very well.
  
 White Cathode Follower is not what I would consider a global feedback loop though. More of a local degeneration that uses a triode (in place of a resistor or another form of biasing device). Let's also keep in mind that most circuits use degeneration to some extent, even those that advertise themselves as "no-feedback".


----------



## Sorrodje

purrin said:


> Sonnet2 should probably be there on the list. HD800 works out of the box with it. Same sonic signature as Stratus, but plays it more straight because it lacks the DHTs. The Stratus' DHT sound is like an all body massage.


 
  
 Thks. Can you develop please? My english is not good enough to catch precisely your feelings. Where could sit the Sonett in your list compared to an for example EC S7 or a Valhalla .What does mean "more straight" ?
  
 One other point: which amps would you qualify "gooey" with the HD800 ?

 The main problem with the HD800 IMO is precisely to keep its strenghts ( great sense of space and detail with a very specfic way to present the music in a kind of diffuse field but without  lack of power or impact) , and to tame its flaws ( dryness and/some  harshness )


----------



## BournePerfect

lojay said:


> Would you consider the recent EC's end game by any chance? I'm having these in serious consideration but only the ECBA uses the tubes that I have.


 
  
 They had better be. If not-what is? I plan on the Leviathan as my endgame, so I hope it delivers. By all accounts it will. If I were you I'd look at the EC2A3 mkIV or EC445 for your HD800/planar needs. The ECBA is somewhat polarizing regarding the HD800 specifically-and won't do the more power hungry planars justice either. You might also check out the ZDSE or DNA Stratus which are cheaper than the above mentioned.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## purrin

sorrodje said:


> Thks. Can you develop please? My english is not good enough to catch precisely your feelings. Where could sit the Sonett in your list compared to an for example EC S7 or a Valhalla .What does mean "more straight" ?
> 
> One other point: which amps would you qualify "gooey" with the HD800 ?
> 
> The main problem with the HD800 IMO is precisely to keep its strenghts ( great sense of space and detail with a very specfic way to present the music in a kind of diffuse field but without  lack of power or impact) , and to tame its flaws ( dryness and/some  harshness )


 
  
 I sat down and listened to Sonnett 2 with some high ohm Beyers and HD800, and I was like, wow this sounds a lot like the Stratus w/ Donald's signature sound. An improvement in clarity over the Sonnett 1 which I have stated that I really did not care for. So the Sonnet sounded pretty good. That is until I heard Status, which I have more clarity, separation, space, microdynamics which sort of make everything come alive.
  
 Sonnett 2 is like getting a good quality massage from like this:
  

  
  
  
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
  
 Stratus (with the recent improvements) is like getting a massage from her:
  

  
 but imagine her completely naked covered in soapy suds and she rubbing her [dedacted] and [dedacted] over your back and buns.
  
 I could be exaggerating the differences, but I think it depends upon alot upon personal sensitivities. I kind of felt the Stratus was the better deal despite being twice the price. But Sonnett is excellent as long as you never hear the Stratus.


----------



## screwdriver

Now who do u really wanna get your massage from?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

purrin said:


> I sat down and listened to Sonnett 2 with some high ohm Beyers and HD800, and I was like, wow this sounds a lot like the Stratus w/ Donald's signature sound. An improvement in clarity over the Sonnett 1 which I have stated that I really did not care for. So the Sonnet sounded pretty good. That is until I heard Status, which I have more clarity, separation, space, microdynamics which sort of make everything come alive.
> 
> Sonnett 2 is like getting a good quality massage from like this:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 My experience with the Stratus has been different than yours.


----------



## MattTCG

bigfatpaulie said:


> My experience with the Stratus has been different than yours.


 
  
 rofl...you made my spit my drink across the room with that one.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

purrin said:


> I sat down and listened to Sonnett 2 with some high ohm Beyers and HD800, and I was like, wow this sounds a lot like the Stratus w/ Donald's signature sound. An improvement in clarity over the Sonnett 1 which I have stated that I really did not care for. So the Sonnet sounded pretty good. That is until I heard Status, which I have more clarity, separation, space, microdynamics which sort of make everything come alive.
> 
> Sonnett 2 is like getting a good quality massage from like this:
> 
> ...





Sold, cannot afford it presently, but damn I need that Stratus!


----------



## Crashem

Bah. My EC 2A3mkIV destroys with the hd800. Especially with we417 drivers


----------



## BournePerfect

crashem said:


> Bah. My EC 2A3mkIV destroys with the hd800. Especially with we417 drivers


 
  
 How's it compare with the GSX w/ the HD800?
  
 -Daniel


----------



## nephilim32

Oh my!! I knew I wasn't crazy. That ARCAM is serious serious fidelity. I'm pairing with a Burson with an audioquest king cobra cable and a Pangea 9se AC power cable for the Burson through a Furman 8 a PST power conditioner. I'm wondering if sound through a headphone listening experience can really get better for me? I think the 'end game' for me would be to purchase the CHORDETTE CUTE EX DAC. 1795$ price tag! 
Anyway. Thanks for the killer impressions. Happy listening to you. Oh and your advice or opinion on my head-rig is always welcome. Thanks. Great feedback.


----------



## nephilim32

62ohm said:


> Not sure about the NAD, but I've just auditioned the Arcam irDAC and the MF M1DAC today, and IMO the irDAC wins (by a slight margin). The M1DAC does have a more forward presentation, but it sounds a bit unbalanced IMO. The bass sounds weaker and at the same time, not as controlled compared to the Arcam. The mids of the Arcam sounds thicker, which to me gives it a more 'fun' and enjoyable character. The highs of the Arcam, while not as forward as the M1DAC, sounds much cleaner to me. The M1DAC's treble sounds a bit harsher sometimes. Regarding soundstage, while the M1DAC does have a more '3-dimensional presentation', the Arcam's soundstaging sounds more natural to me.
> 
> While the M1DAC does come with balanced outs, to be honest I can't distinguish any difference balanced input makes on an amp (was using an HDVA600, with CH800S balanced cable). The sound gets louder with balanced input, but that's about it. When I match the volume, I can't hear any difference between XLR-in and RCA-in at all. So in the end, I think I'd prefer the Arcam irDAC to the M1DAC. But there's still the Benchmark DAC1-USB to be auditioned, and the NAD D1050, so I'm not rushing into any decision.
> 
> ...







nephilim32 said:


> Oh my!! I knew I wasn't crazy. That ARCAM is serious serious fidelity. I'm pairing with a Burson with an audioquest king cobra cable and a Pangea 9se AC power cable for the Burson through a Furman 8 a PST power conditioner. I'm wondering if sound through a headphone listening experience can really get better for me? I think the 'end game' for me would be to purchase the CHORDETTE CUTE EX DAC. 1795$ price tag!
> Anyway. Thanks for the killer impressions. Happy listening to you. Oh and your advice or opinion on my head-rig is always welcome. Thanks. Great feedback.




What do you think of the cyrus 8a headphone amp in the integrated amp itself?? I'm thinking of trading my Burson soloist for it cause I wanna get loud speakers. I'm sure OPAMPS or at least some can compete with class A amp designs and signal pathways?? Maybe. Not sure.


----------



## purrin

crashem said:


> Bah. My EC 2A3mkIV destroys with the hd800. Especially with we417 drivers


 
  
 We417 is scary good. Your setup is more like being touched by the hand of God (0D says it's more like a handle from the holy ghost). Different experience. Some may prefer the soapy suds experience with [redacted] at Watercourse Way in Palo Alto.


----------



## nephilim32

crashem said:


> Bah. My EC 2A3mkIV destroys with the hd800. Especially with we417 drivers




Pretty expensive tube amp. What DAC are you pairing with the Eddie current?


----------



## zerodeefex

Crashem, wait til you do 2 EML mesh, 2 AVVTs:
  
 http://www.audioasylumtrader.com/ca/listing/Amplifier-Tube/AVVT/2A3/Mesh-Plate/116161
  
 Then the touching you're experiencing that Purrin is alluding too will get more intimate.


----------



## Sorrodje

purrin said:


> I sat down and listened to Sonnett 2 with some high ohm Beyers and HD800, and I was like, wow this sounds a lot like the Stratus w/ Donald's signature sound. An improvement in clarity over the Sonnett 1 which I have stated that I really did not care for. So the Sonnet sounded pretty good. That is until I heard Status, which I have more clarity, separation, space, microdynamics which sort of make everything come alive.





Ah ah ah. I see clearly what you mean. You're really selling dreams!

But what about the sonett vs. Valhalla or bottlehead crack or other amps of your list?


----------



## pearljam50000

From the k712 thread:
"ASR: I just recently re-acquired a pair of these headphones.

Holy crap I'd forgotten how good they are. I'm impressed all over again by their sound—overall just a great performer in almost every aspect that brings near-complete musical satisfaction to my ears. And at their current price on Amazon ($349) they're totally a must-buy for anyone who hasn't yet heard one! Even though they're "only" $500 MSRP, I definitely think they're end-game headphones easily, over dynamic flagships like the HD800, T1, and TH900, and even planar magnetics like the Audeze and HiFiMan models (including the newest HE-560)."

Has anyone else compared the K712 to HD800?


----------



## 62ohm

pearljam50000 said:


> From the k712 thread:
> "ASR: I just recently re-acquired a pair of these headphones.
> 
> Holy crap I'd forgotten how good they are. I'm impressed all over again by their sound—overall just a great performer in almost every aspect that brings near-complete musical satisfaction to my ears. And at their current price on Amazon ($349) they're totally a must-buy for anyone who hasn't yet heard one! Even though they're "only" $500 MSRP, I definitely think they're end-game headphones easily, over dynamic flagships like the HD800, T1, and TH900, and even planar magnetics like the Audeze and HiFiMan models (including the newest HE-560)."
> ...


 
  
 I've listened to the K712 numerous times, and IMO it compares more to the K/Q70x than the HD800. The soundstage, while enormous, comes with neither-here-nor-there imaging. The centerstage is absent, making the super-stereo effect very obvious. It's not a bad headphone, but comparing it to the HD800 and T1, it's a no contest.


----------



## pearljam50000

That's why i asked, i find it weird that he wrote that the K712 sounds better than the HD800, i had the K701 and didn't liked it at all, , and then i had the HD800, which is in a different leauge!
 I never heard the K712 but i really doubt they are better than the HD800.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Typical K7XX soundstage with diffuse phantom center, aka oval soundstage with bad imaging/staging in the center and emphasized more towards the sides. 
  
 However for the price they are great and with respect to the price ranges they should be high on the recommendation list. Above factors sound terrible but only in comparison with the other mentioned HPs. 
  
 The HD 800 is over 1000 bucks more. 


Spoiler: though....



much better at everything


----------



## subtle

fegefeuer said:


> Typical K7XX soundstage with diffuse phantom center, aka oval soundstage with bad imaging/staging in the center and emphasized more towards the sides.
> 
> However for the price they are great and with respect to the price ranges they should be high on the recommendation list. Above factors sound terrible but only in comparison with the other mentioned HPs.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yup.  This.


----------



## SilverEars

pearljam50000 said:


> From the k712 thread:
> "ASR: I just recently re-acquired a pair of these headphones.
> 
> Holy crap I'd forgotten how good they are. I'm impressed all over again by their sound—overall just a great performer in almost every aspect that brings near-complete musical satisfaction to my ears. And at their current price on Amazon ($349) they're totally a must-buy for anyone who hasn't yet heard one! Even though they're "only" $500 MSRP, I definitely think they're end-game headphones easily, over dynamic flagships like the HD800, T1, and TH900, and even planar magnetics like the Audeze and HiFiMan models (including the newest HE-560)."
> ...


 
 I wrote early on how strikingly similar the measurements are other than distortion.  Also the driver design are pretty similar SPWild mentioned.  Makes sense to give it direct comparison for a fair chance.


----------



## cooperpwc

I do not find the GS-X mk2 + HD800 to be too bright. Actually I have surprised myself by pulling out my dusty Headroom MicroDAC which I long abandoned because I thought it a bit on the bright side. Until I go balanced with a better DAC, it seems to be my source that best provides the level of detail that the combo deserves.
  
 The result certainly is not dark and laid back but it is not excessively bright to my ears.


----------



## purrin

sorrodje said:


> Ah ah ah. I see clearly what you mean. You're really selling dreams!


 
  
 To present an alternate view - one person there said the Stratus was clearer and smoother and Sonnett had a snap timbre (in a not good way.) Not a huge difference. But I can say that I am very familiar with Stratus and other of Donalds amps and small differences tend to mean more to me than others.
  


> But what about the sonett vs. Valhalla or bottlehead crack or other amps of your list?


 
  
 Hard to say without putting them all together with same source. Vahalla probably plays it more honest than the others, letting the HD800 be bright, but its also the fastest sounding. With Val2, I would use Anax mods and/or cable. On Sonnett 2 I preferred with un-modded HD800s. Crack really needs the speedball and can sound very different based on tubes, but 120 output impedance will have a very measurable effect on the bass, and in typical arrangements Crack is warmish. Sonnett 2 is probably the most tubey "wet" with Vahalla the least.


----------



## Sorrodje

Ok thks 
  
 I think I have all information I need to decide my own strategy. I'll stay on my current rig until I have enough money & enough desire & enough space somewhere in my home to upgrade to something like a Stratus + Metrum Hex rig . What I'm looking for is definitely a bit more clarity without loosing this analog kind of sound so your feelings are really helpful. :cheers: . I imagine you tried the Sonett with stock tubes. I swapped the JJ rectifiers for a nos mullard one  . it's a real improvement with more sparkle/Clarity IMO.
  
  
 For now I'm definitely happy with what I have. My HD800 (unmodded) + Metrum Octave + Sonett 2 sounds right and homogeneous to my ears with the music I like and I usually listen to . Indeed , the combo is more oriented to make the HD800 a better allrounder . it's what I was after when I've choosen those components.  I've lost something for Classical but I've gained so much for other genre.


----------



## pearljam50000

I'm sorry for the weird question, but what is exactly the matriel that the HD800 is made of, i mean i know it's plastic, but what type is it? it has to be more durable than normal plastic.


----------



## drdiem

pearljam50000 said:


> I'm sorry for the weird question, but what is exactly the matriel that the HD800 is made of, i mean i know it's plastic, but what type is it? it has to be more durable than normal plastic.


 
  
 According to Tyll at InnerFidelity it is "Leona plastic--a 60% glass fiber filled, high stiffness specialized plastic".


----------



## nephilim32

drdiem said:


> According to Tyll at InnerFidelity it is "[COLOR=333333]Leona plastic--a 60% glass fiber filled, high stiffness specialized plastic".[/COLOR]




Yup. Same stuff the Japanese use for areo space designs/shuttle builds.


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks, i hope durabilty won't be an issue over the years.


----------



## 62ohm

purrin said:


> > But what about the sonett vs. Valhalla or bottlehead crack or other amps of your list?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sold, now I want the Sonnett 2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 One question though Purrin, which one do you think would be a better complement to the HDVA600 - the Sonnett 2 or the BHA-1?


----------



## purrin

Sonnett mainly because it is the most different, i.e. tubes, from HDVD600. you did say _complement_


----------



## 62ohm

purrin said:


> Sonnett mainly because it is the most different, i.e. tubes, from HDVD600. you did say _complement_


 
  
 What do you think about the Sonnett in comparison to Woo amps? Say WA2 / WA6SE, or maybe in comparison to the more expensive WA22?


----------



## purrin

Woo's best amps are WA5 and WA6. The WA6SE is good with HD800. (I should put it on the list.) You can roll tubes with WA6SE to your hearts content for almost any headphone. To put it mildly, I don't care for WA2 or WA22.


----------



## zerodeefex

What about the WA7? Okay, see one time Randy Beaman's mom was on the porch, and she got to listen to the WA7 and the WA7tp and she thought it was the dog, but it wasn't, it was just this crazy guy who did that a lot.


----------



## purrin

WA7 with built in DAC was craptastic. However, I heard that the WA7 with the power supply cube and a better external DAC was pretty good from ears I don't quite trust. I need to hear it myself one day.


----------



## lojay

purrin said:


> Woo's best amps are WA5 and WA6. The WA6SE is good with HD800. (I should put it on the list.) You can roll tubes with WA6SE to your hearts content for almost any headphone. To put it mildly, I don't care for WA2 or WA22.


 
  
 Marv, would you dump a WA5 (with maxed tubes) to get the EC 4-45 for something that can drive _both_ the HE6 and HD800 well?


----------



## BournePerfect

I'd dump the WA5LE for a Vali for the HD800. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 -Daniel


----------



## lojay

bourneperfect said:


> I'd dump the WA5LE for a Vali for the HD800.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





... I think I can manage to keep both the Vali and the WA5 just to see if I can prove / disprove that!


----------



## purrin

Yes. I had no issues with EC 4-45 with HE-6. In a direct comparison, the 4-45 was better than one of those series KAV Krells that many HF'ers claim to be a great match for the HE-6. The Krell amp was literally going "fart" "fart" "fart" in the bass with the most recent Daft Punk album; while the EC 4-45 was able to reproduce bass with tautness, authority and texture. So much for lots of watts. Now the big 75 lbs Krells are better though.


----------



## lojay

purrin said:


> Yes. I had no issues with EC 4-45 with HE-6. In a direct comparison, the 4-45 was better than one of those series KAV Krells that many HF'ers claim to be a great match for the HE-6. The Krell amp was literally going "fart" "fart" "fart" in the bass with the most recent Daft Punk album; while the EC 4-45 was able to reproduce bass with tautness, authority and texture. So much for lots of watts. Now the big 75 lbs Krells are better though.


 
  
 Thanks, but no thanks from my wallet..
 I wanted to ask about the Levi but I think I'll stop here


----------



## purrin

Levi is still in development hell since the Tango transformers can no longer be obtained, so best to not think about it for now, at least that's what I'm doing.


----------



## Zoom25

So what's the best HD800 amp that actually ships out right away (relatively)?


----------



## Maxvla

Valhalla 2? Everything else takes build time.


----------



## cooperpwc

Valhalla looks to be great value. The balanced only configuration would be an issue for me but you could get a good small amp like the Pico Power (or Quickstep) for your home IEMs. Reduces the cost advantage though and a high end balanced/single-ended amp it is still superior in that role, especially for dynamics.


----------



## Sorrodje

purrin said:


> (I should put it on the list.)




You should keep your list in a clean place and update it. Maybe another thread or out there . It's so rare to have a sum up about hd800 amping. Much blablablabla with personal opinions which is useful but rarely a simple list for all budgets. A new thread maybe? So we all can propose and contribute?

My main problem when we talk about amps is the source. I have the worst difficulties to identify what comes from the amp or the DAC.


----------



## Maxvla

cooperpwc said:


> Valhalla looks to be great value. The balanced only configuration would be an issue for me but you could get a good small amp like the Pico Power (or Quickstep) for your home IEMs. Reduces the cost advantage though and a high end balanced/single-ended amp it is still superior in that role, especially for dynamics.



Valhalla is single ended.


----------



## cooperpwc

maxvla said:


> Valhalla is single ended.


 
  
 Oops. Sorry for the complete brain cramp. I looked at the Vlahalla on the Schiit site, and then the Mjohnir, and then did a nice little dyslexic switch.


----------



## whirlwind

purrin said:


> Woo's best amps are WA5 and WA6. The WA6SE is good with HD800. (I should put it on the list.) You can roll tubes with WA6SE to your hearts content for almost any headphone. To put it mildly, I don't care for WA2 or WA22.


 
  
 Proof that sound is purely subjective....I have read many good things about the wa2 & wa22 with the hd800


----------



## magiccabbage

whirlwind said:


> Proof that sound is purely subjective....I have read many good things about the wa2 & wa22 with the hd800


 
 Yea I have the WA2 and i think its great. When I get the Stratus I will do a right up and compare the 2 amps.


----------



## 62ohm

magiccabbage said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Proof that sound is purely subjective....I have read many good things about the wa2 & wa22 with the hd800
> ...


 
  
 Looking forward to your thoughts mate.


----------



## BournePerfect

whirlwind said:


> Proof that sound is purely subjective....I have read many good things about the wa2 & wa22 with the hd800




...and relative.


----------



## Mentis

Hello everyone, I'm new here and this is my first post... I really love you people in this forum.  Very informative and detailed across all levels =)  Cuz of you guys, I finally decided to purchase my first pair of high end headphones HD800.  Now have to save up for my next big purchase an amp/dac (either a WA7 or OPPO HA-1).  I currently have an Audioengine D1 that connects to my A5+.  Would that be enough to drive my HD800 for now or should I get some entry level combo.  My next purchase won't be in a year or two haha!   Reason I decided to go for the HD800 was for the soundstage.  I still haven't opened it yet though... guess I'd like to know your opinions before really trying them.  Thank you guys!!!


----------



## magiccabbage

mentis said:


> Hello everyone, I'm new here and this is my first post... I really love you people in this forum.  Very informative and detailed across all levels =)  Cuz of you guys, I finally decided to purchase my first pair of high end headphones HD800.  Now have to save up for my next big purchase an amp/dac (either a WA7 or OPPO HA-1).  I currently have an Audioengine D1 that connects to my A5+.  Would that be enough to drive my HD800 for now or should I get some entry level combo.  My next purchase won't be in a year or two haha!   Reason I decided to go for the HD800 was for the soundstage.  I still haven't opened it yet though... guess I'd like to know your opinions before really trying them.  Thank you guys!!!


 
 try Vali and Modi to start off. People seem to love that setup and its cheap.


----------



## akhyar

mentis said:


> Hello everyone, I'm new here and this is my first post... I really love you people in this forum.  Very informative and detailed across all levels =)  Cuz of you guys, I finally decided to purchase my first pair of high end headphones HD800.  Now have to save up for my next big purchase an amp/dac (either a WA7 or OPPO HA-1).  I currently have an Audioengine D1 that connects to my A5+.  Would that be enough to drive my HD800 for now or should I get some entry level combo.  My next purchase won't be in a year or two haha!   Reason I decided to go for the HD800 was for the soundstage.  I still haven't opened it yet though... guess I'd like to know your opinions before really trying them.  Thank you guys!!!


 
  
 I used to have D1 to drive my Momentum or ESW-9 but I would not use it for HD800, unless in emergency.
 You can try Vali or M-Stage if you want something affordable for the time being


----------



## Mentis

Thx for the quick response  I did think of Modi+Vali combo, M-Stage, or even the O2+ODAC combo.  I read somewhere the D1 uses the same DAC chip as the Modi.  If that's the case, would it be possible just to get the Vali combine with the D1?  Or I'm better off getting a whole combo?  I'm planning to buy from members of head-fi.  Thank you again and much appreciated


----------



## pearljam50000

mentis said:


> Hello everyone, I'm new here and this is my first post... I really love you people in this forum.  Very informative and detailed across all levels =)  Cuz of you guys, I finally decided to purchase my first pair of high end headphones HD800.  Now have to save up for my next big purchase an amp/dac (either a WA7 or OPPO HA-1).  I currently have an Audioengine D1 that connects to my A5+.  Would that be enough to drive my HD800 for now or should I get some entry level combo.  My next purchase won't be in a year or two haha!   Reason I decided to go for the HD800 was for the soundstage.  I still haven't opened it yet though... guess I'd like to know your opinions before really trying them.  Thank you guys!!!


 
 How could you not open them the second you got them? you got some super powers


----------



## Mentis

Well... I actually did open them but haven't listened to them yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so... no superpower


----------



## BleaK

mentis said:


> Well... I actually did open them but haven't listened to them yet
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Try a matrix mStage or a Vali with your D1 first. If you find the sound bearable you can save up till a nice DAC and use with the amp. I used the X-sabre a good 6 months with the Vali and it gave me such an awsome sound that I had the time to search and find a endgame amp (for me) to match with the HD800.


----------



## Zoom25

Don't know about the HA-1, but would avoid the WA7 and go with something more beefier or resolving (both amp and dac section).


----------



## Mentis

Thz Zoom25 but can you please tell me the reason to avoid WA7? I read a lot of good things about it.
  
 Bleak so you suggest M-stage or Vali.  I am leaning towards the Vali because I read somewhere on this forum tube is recommended to go with the HD800.  However,some users were experiencing microphonic noises with them and I'm afraid this can bother me.  So I'm not sure between the two...


----------



## barid

magiccabbage said:


> Yea I have the WA2 and i think its great. When I get the Stratus I will do a right up and compare the 2 amps.




I thought the wa2 / hd800 combo was nice as well.


----------



## mediumraresteak

zoom25 said:


> Don't know about the HA-1, but would avoid the WA7 and go with something more beefier or resolving (both amp and dac section).


 
 Have you tried the WA7 with the new PSU/tubes?


----------



## frankrondaniel

mediumraresteak said:


> Have you tried the WA7 with the new PSU/tubes?


 
  
 I've been running my HD800's out of a WA7 with the new PSU, using both a Hugo and an Exasound E28 as DAC.  While the WA7 paired with these DACS sounds resolving and transparent, I still feel that there's a lack of "weight" to the sound.  I know that's not a very technical term, but I can imagine that there are amps out there that will provide the "weight" that I'm missing.  Several amps have been mentioned in the HD800 Amp thread that look interesting - like those from Eddie Current or DNA.  Wish there was an easy way to demo.


----------



## 62ohm

What about the Valhalla 2 / Bifrost combo? You can get them for less than a WA7, and people seem to praise the Valhalla 2 in regards to drive the HD800.


----------



## BleaK

mentis said:


> Thz Zoom25 but can you please tell me the reason to avoid WA7? I read a lot of good things about it.
> 
> Bleak so you suggest M-stage or Vali.  I am leaning towards the Vali because I read somewhere on this forum tube is recommended to go with the HD800.  However,some users were experiencing microphonic noises with them and I'm afraid this can bother me.  So I'm not sure between the two...


 

 Vali is great sounding, but it has some ringing when you put in the cable or hit the table with something. It never bothered me, and I had one of the earlier model (first 200 or so) which they said had even more ringing. I still have the amp, and plug it in sometimes for AB-ing something or listening next to the bedside. IMO the greatest price/perfomance-ratio amp for the HD800, with the downside of some ringing. Which again, never bothered me.


----------



## DairyProduce

I thought the noise floor of the vali was slightly distracting on the HD800...


----------



## midnightwalker

Anyone tried the HDVD800 with the HD800? I am curious on how these combo sound. I have a trade offer on this combo but not sure if these are the right combo to me. Any impression is appreciated. Thanks


----------



## purrin

whirlwind said:


> Proof that sound is purely subjective....I have read many good things about the wa2 & wa22 with the hd800


 
  
 Personal tastes are subjective for sure; there are many good things you can read about anything here.


----------



## Sorrodje

@purrin : Did you hear some Meier Audio amp ( Jazz or Concerto or Classic ) with the HD800 ?


----------



## purrin

zoom25 said:


> Don't know about the HA-1, but would avoid the WA7 and go with something more beefier or resolving (both amp and dac section).


 
  
 HA-1 is bright / lean amp more suited to PM-1 than HD800.
  


62ohm said:


> What about the Valhalla 2 / Bifrost combo? You can get them for less than a WA7, and people seem to praise the Valhalla 2 in regards to drive the HD800.


 
  
 Val2/Bifrost combo probably going to be more honest sounding. WA7 (without PS) is dullish, slow, and flat. I can see some people preferring the WA7 with HD800 because it takes the edge more. The Val2 just takes enough of the edge off yet at the same time letting the HD800 how resolving it can be.


----------



## purrin

dairyproduce said:


> I thought the noise floor of the vali was slightly distracting on the HD800...


 
  
 Your tubes are broken. Shouldn't be hearing any noise with HD800. Noise with Grado - possible. Noise with HD800 = broken. Get an RMA.
  


midnightwalker said:


> Anyone tried the HDVD800 with the HD800? I am curious on how these combo sound. I have a trade offer on this combo but not sure if these are the right combo to me. Any impression is appreciated. Thanks


 
  
 Go back many many posts to see big list. HDVD800 is good with HD800.
  


sorrodje said:


> @purrin : Did you hear some Meier Audio amp ( Jazz or Concerto or Classic ) with the HD800 ?


 
  
 Hasn't that amp been around forever? I think I may have heard along time ago in a galaxy far away. I don't remember much.


----------



## Sorrodje

purrin said:


> Hasn't that amp been around forever?


 
  
  
 Don't know but that's possible. Jan meier had made amps since the big bang.
  
 You really should give his amps a serious listen . Very good & clean solid state amps. it doesn't take off the HD800 edginess but the result is surprinsingly very good, fast & resolving.  I liked them a lot with my HD800 although I prefer tubes (I had the Corda Jazz and an old MG Head face to face during a few month in order to decide what's my preference between tubes & Solid State) . If Classical was my main genre, i would have definitely purchased his TOTL stack and I didn't give up buiying it someday as an alternate rig dedicated to classical music & orthos.
  
 IMO the Corda Jazz is the best Value (a bit more than 400$ for US)


----------



## magiccabbage

sorrodje said:


> Don't know but that's possible. Jan meier had made amps since the big bang.


 
  
 HAHAHA got a good laugh out of that


----------



## Mentis

purrin said:


> HA-1 is bright / lean amp more suited to PM-1 than HD800.
> 
> 
> Val2/Bifrost combo probably going to be more honest sounding. WA7 (without PS) is dullish, slow, and flat. I can see some people preferring the WA7 with HD800 because it takes the edge more. The Val2 just takes enough of the edge off yet at the same time letting the HD800 how resolving it can be.


 
 Isn't the Lyr2 better than Val2 for HD800?  That's from reading some other posts from this forum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 lol I always base on what I read... I'm no audiophile... I'm pure noob at this


----------



## pdrm360

62ohm said:


> What about the Valhalla 2 / Bifrost combo? You can get them for less than a WA7, and people seem to praise the Valhalla 2 in regards to drive the HD800.


 
  
 The Bifrost Uber is much better than the WA7's DAC, I like the WA7's amp though.


----------



## purrin

mentis said:


> Isn't the Lyr2 better than Val2 for HD800?  That's from reading some other posts from this forum
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lyr2 is very nice. Warmer sounding, but a tiny bit less resolving and a tiny bit flatter sounding than Val2. I can see people preferring the Lyr2 because it is warmer sound. I personally would opt for Val2 because it has more involving engaging sound, resorting to digital EQ or mods if necessary to tone down HD800 brightness.


----------



## wahsmoh

Anyone have experience with iFi micro iDSD? For $500 it looks cutting edge and maybe even a poor man's Chord Hugo


----------



## purrin

Considering how "meh"  the Hugo is, I shudder at the thought of the poor man's version of it.


----------



## pdrm360

purrin said:


> Lyr2 is very nice. Warmer sounding, but a tiny bit less resolving and a tiny bit flatter sounding than Val2. I can see people preferring the Lyr2 because it is warmer sound. I personally would opt for Val2 because it has more involving engaging sound, resorting to digital EQ or mods if necessary to tone down HD800 brightness.


 
  
 I like the Lyr for lows and the Val for highs. The trebles on the Val are beautiful and engaging, IMO.


----------



## wahsmoh

purrin said:


> Considering how "meh"  the Hugo is, I shudder at the thought of the poor man's version of it.


 
 haha for the price I would think the Hugo isn't that great. I was in another forum and this guy seemed to have his whole life set on it. Then he got it and was underwhelmed. Now he wants a Cavalli Liquid Glass


----------



## koiloco

purrin said:


> Considering how "meh"  the Hugo is, I shudder at the thought of the poor man's version of it.


 

 You are definitely a candor ...


----------



## zachchen1996

wahsmoh said:


> haha for the price I would think the Hugo isn't that great. I was in another forum and this guy seemed to have his whole life set on it. Then he got it and was underwhelmed. Now he wants a Cavalli Liquid Glass


 

 Agreed, the hugo is very much overpriced.


----------



## jackskelly

One thing I often take for granted with dynamic headphones is that they can be powered by many more devices than electrostatic headphones. The HD-800 is unique in how similar it sounds to an electrostatic headphone without being one.


----------



## Mentis

Man now I'm tempted to skip Vali and cash up straight for Valhalla 2 or Lyr 2... And then a Bifrost and call it my end game...


----------



## pdrm360

mentis said:


> Man now I'm tempted to skip Vali and cash up straight for Valhalla 2 or Lyr 2... And then a Bifrost and call it my end game...


 
  
 Sorry! here is NO end game, you will just start a new game but in higher level.


----------



## Mentis

pdrm360 said:


> Sorry! here is NO end game, you will just start a new game but in higher level.




Holy Schiiiit... :basshead:


----------



## Maxvla

wahsmoh said:


> haha for the price I would think the Hugo isn't that great. I was in another forum and this guy seemed to have his whole life set on it. Then he got it and was underwhelmed. Now he wants a Cavalli Liquid Glass



Sounds like someone I know with a different product.


----------



## 62ohm

mentis said:


> Man now I'm tempted to skip Vali and cash up straight for Valhalla 2 or Lyr 2... And then a Bifrost and call it my end game...


 
  
 'End Game' is just a fairy tale mate


----------



## akhyar

62ohm said:


> 'End Game' is just a fairy tale mate


 
  
 Well said.
 It's just a fairy tale, with no happy ending to your wallet


----------



## bigfatpaulie

mentis said:


> ... And then a Bifrost and call it my end game...


 
  
 Oh to be young again


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

Would the HD800 paired with a Schiit Modi and Valhalla work well? Maybe I'd be better off with a Vali. I'm having trouble finding a cheap DAC to pair with the Valhalla and since they match, I think it might work out well. The thing is I only want to spend $600 CAD, preferable not ordering equipment from overseas. Can the Modi keep up with the HD800's imaging capabilities?


----------



## BournePerfect

toddthemetalgod said:


> Would the HD800 paired with a Schiit Modi and Valhalla work well? Maybe I'd be better off with a Vali. I'm having trouble finding a cheap DAC to pair with the Valhalla and since they match, I think it might work out well. The thing is I only want to spend $600 CAD, preferable not ordering equipment from overseas. Can the Modi keep up with the HD800's imaging capabilities?


 
  
 No. Get something better. The Bifrost Uber will be a solid choice. Personally I liked the Nuforce HDP dac for the price I paid-sounded similar to my Eximus but without the effortlessness and nuances imo. Used they can be had for $250 or so. I greatly enjoyed my HDP>>Vali>>HD800 setup I ran for a while.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## MickeyVee

I see you have the DF.. is it the DF1.2? Try the DF with the Valhalla 2 to start with as an option. Check out Headphone Bar in Vancouver for the Val2.  Move to the Bifrost when you can.  If you're in the Toronto area, check out Headfone Shop for other options. Charles is great to deal with. 
 Personally, I'd do Vali with a good DAC (Bifrost) versus cheap DAC and Valhall2.  YMMV.
 Quote:


toddthemetalgod said:


>


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

I've got the Dragonfly v1.0. I'm sort of afraid it might be too bright for the HD800. Is that correct? But that is a great idea. I'll take my time building this setup so I can truly get to the high end. It's more than I wanted to spend, but I guess I dug myself my grave when I bought these damn headphones in the first place . Having major regrets that I didn't just order an HE-560 now.


----------



## JoelT

mediumraresteak said:


> Have you tried the WA7 with the new PSU/tubes?


 

 The new tube PSU is a must have, Purrin's description of the WA7 without the tube PSU is accurate IMO ("_WA7 [without PS] is dullish, slow, and flat_"). With the HD800, you'll want to use a good external DAC, the WA7tp (tube PSU) and upgraded tubes in the PSU. That stated, _with _said DAC, WA7tp and replacement PSU tubes, it doesn't leave a whole lot to be desired. It's taken some effort to get there however. 
  
  
 Quote:


frankrondaniel said:


> I've been running my HD800's out of a WA7 with the new PSU, using both a Hugo and an Exasound E28 as DAC.  While the WA7 paired with these DACS sounds resolving and transparent, I still feel that there's a lack of "weight" to the sound.  I know that's not a very technical term, but I can imagine that there are amps out there that will provide the "weight" that I'm missing.  Several amps have been mentioned in the HD800 Amp thread that look interesting - like those from Eddie Current or DNA.  Wish there was an easy way to demo.


 
 The tubes in the WA7 tube PSU need to be swapped to bring back the "weight" you mentioned...not sure if you've tried this yet or not. Microdetail, soundstage and bass can all be improved. The stock tubes that ship with the tube PSU are lackluster.


----------



## Zoom25

mentis said:


> Thz Zoom25 but can you please tell me the reason to avoid WA7? I read a lot of good things about it.
> 
> Bleak so you suggest M-stage or Vali.  I am leaning towards the Vali because I read somewhere on this forum tube is recommended to go with the HD800.  However,some users were experiencing microphonic noises with them and I'm afraid this can bother me.  So I'm not sure between the two...


 
  
 I was considering the WA7 mainly for a bedroom rig or even a smaller desktop rig. I loved it's looks and the small footprint. I tried it with the new upgrades, but it's not the best amp for planars or HD800. For planars, I'd seriously consider another amp - simply lacks punch. For HD800, I didn't find I was getting much out of the HD800. It feels lacking. I didn't compare it side by side to my DM Source, but the HD800 on my Source is much fun to listen to. 12o clock on the DM Source and you're getting bass that's not capable by planars - including HE-500, LCD-2 and LCD-3. HE-6 is another case.


----------



## Zoom25

mediumraresteak said:


> Have you tried the WA7 with the new PSU/tubes?


 
 Yes, still not ballsy enough for my tastes. Love the looks and size, but that's about it. Unless you need the looks, size or portability, there's better stuff out there. For example, Emotiva DC-1 at $499 has a better DAC output. Better amp and dac on my $899 Source than WA7.
  
 For a desktop rig, WA7 is kind of…silly.


----------



## kothganesh

zoom25 said:


> I was considering the WA7 mainly for a bedroom rig or even a smaller desktop rig. I loved it's looks and the small footprint. I tried it with the new upgrades, but it's not the best amp for planars or HD800. For planars, I'd seriously consider another amp - simply lacks punch. For HD800, I didn't find I was getting much out of the HD800. It feels lacking. I didn't compare it side by side to my DM Source, but the HD800 on my Source is much fun to listen to. 12o clock on the DM Source and you're getting bass that's not capable by planars - including HE-500, LCD-2 and LCD-3. HE-6 is another case.




Zoom, what's the DM Source? First time hearing this so apologies in advance.


----------



## frankrondaniel

joelt said:


> The tubes in the WA7 tube PSU need to be swapped to bring back the "weight" you mentioned...not sure if you've tried this yet or not. Microdetail, soundstage and bass can all be improved. The stock tubes that ship with the tube PSU are lackluster.


 
  
 Yeah - I've tried some preliminary tube swapping.  I'm currently using the Sylvania JAN 5814A's in the WA7tp (have a set of RCA Clear Tops waiting for their turn).  In the WA7, I reverted back to using Electro-Harmonix 6C45Pi Gold Pins after trying a set of Russian 6C45Pi Cryo that initially wowed me with an increased detail and sense of openness and space in the sound stage.  But it became too much of a good thing with the HD800s.  It lost some of the weight that I had with the Electro-Harmonix.  But I'm still looking for something that will let me hear more weight to the sound.  I'm open to suggestions.


----------



## Zoom25

kothganesh said:


> Zoom, what's the DM Source? First time hearing this so apologies in advance.


 
 http://www.dangerousmusic.com/products/source
  
 - 24/192 Balanced DAC
 - Serious Headphone amp
 - Pre-amp for 2 speakers or 1 speaker + 1 subwoofer
 - Different inputs for headphones and speaker section
 - Separate Latch modes for both headphone and speaker section - play multiple inputs at the same time
 - Studio grade pre-amp (very, very true to input)
 - In terms of functionality, there's a lot that you can do with it 
  
 Sound: Super natural and neutral. Pushes for transparency like 2k+ Apogee, Antelope and Lynx studio equipment…in terms of hi-fi, it's in the same league as Bryston BDA-2, NAD M51, Naim DAC V1, Arcam D33. I actually prefer my Source as a DAC over the BDA-2 and D33 in terms of sound. M51 is neutral like the Source. NaimV1…haven't quite gotten it down yet. I've auditioned all these DACs with their respective power, transports, media players of their native company racks…so something like BHA-1, BDA-2, BDP-2, PS Audio Powerplants.   
  
 Absolute best thing about it: No fatigue…ever! -> The transients, attack, FR is just perfect. Never experience slow bass that sounds bloated or too punchy that it fatigues you. Just wonderful to track everything without sounding analytical at all. They programmed the DM Source with musicality without losing transparency. A good example would be to look at their Compressor.
  
 I absolutely prefer it to boutique products like WA7…some of the hi-fi stuff out there are huge rip offs. The WA7 definitely is in that category.
  
 Headphones that pair really well with DM Source: HD800 and Fostex/Denon's.


----------



## Zoom25

I really wish I had the HD800 back when I used to play around with planars and speaker amps. Krell, McIntosh, EAR, Luxman were great with LCD-3 and HE-500/6.


----------



## kothganesh

zoom25 said:


> http://www.dangerousmusic.com/products/source
> 
> - 24/192 Balanced DAC
> - Serious Headphone amp
> ...


 
 Great write-up and impressions. Thanks. And how is it with the planars?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

As a side note, my bifrost came in, and I will say I have no qualms with the Bifrost Uber-Valhalla 2 stack running my HD800s. Is it as good as a Master 7 into a EC 4-45? No probably not, but Im certainly happy with it 
  
 and it matches and is adorably tiny! take that Master 7 - EC 4-45!


----------



## MickeyVee

Haven't we all! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Quote:


toddthemetalgod said:


> It's more than I wanted to spend, but I guess I dug myself my grave when I bought these damn headphones in the first place
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Mentis

souprknowva said:


> As a side note, my bifrost came in, and I will say I have no qualms with the Bifrost Uber-Valhalla 2 stack running my HD800s. Is it as good as a Master 7 into a EC 4-45? No probably not, but Im certainly happy with it
> 
> and it matches and is adorably tiny! take that Master 7 - EC 4-45!


 
 So the Valhalla 2 pairs better with HD800 than a Lyr 2?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

mentis said:


> So the Valhalla 2 pairs better with HD800 than a Lyr 2?


 
  
 I haven't heard the Lyr or Lyr 2...but purrin has, and he says the Valhalla 2 is better, I trust purrin


----------



## BobJS

Question :  All-in-one audiophile quality solid state, balanced, DAC AND Headphone Amp .... does it exist? Recommendations?


----------



## JoelT

souprknowva said:


> I haven't heard the Lyr or Lyr 2...but purrin has, and he says the Valhalla 2 is better, I trust purrin


 
 Given the incredible price, I'm going to probably grab a Valhalla 2 to give it a try. Has anyone tried swapping tubes yet, when paired with the HD800?


----------



## PleasantSounds

bobjs said:


> Question :  All-in-one audiophile quality solid state, balanced, DAC AND Headphone Amp .... does it exist? Recommendations?


 
  
 M2Tech Vaughan....
  
 EDIT: the new V281 has an option of PCM 1798 / Tenor TE8802 24/192 DAC card


----------



## Sonido

62ohm said:


> 'End Game' is just a fairy tale mate



End game is when you meet a new girl and realize dating/having a girlfriend is expensive. I've seen that happen to others, and I think it's happening to me 

Also see wife's definition of endgame


----------



## SoupRKnowva

sonido said:


> End game is when you meet a new girl and realize dating/having a girlfriend is expensive. I've seen that happen to others, and I think it's happening to me




I came to the realization that I had other priorities. That's why I ditched the master 7/super 7 in favor of the high value, but not as good Bifrost/valhalla2 setup. 

And I'll keep harping on it, but damn does it look good 

I am gonna have to buy a new table for the new hear though since it's so much smaller!


----------



## MattTCG

sonido said:


> End game is when you meet a new girl and realize dating/having a girlfriend is expensive. I've seen that happen to others, and I think it's happening to me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ah ha!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Happens to the best of us.
  
 Regarding the lyr2 vs Val 2...with the hd800 the Val 2 is the better match for sure.


----------



## koiloco

sonido said:


> End game is when you meet a new girl and realize dating/having a girlfriend is expensive. I've seen that happen to others, and I think it's happening to me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 hahahaha, slow down buddy.


----------



## Zoom25

kothganesh said:


> Great write-up and impressions. Thanks. And how is it with the planars?


 
 Don't have much experience with planars and the Source. I briefly tried it with LCD-3 and it wasn't the best match, but then again, I didn't ever find a good match for the LCD-3 besides a Luxman speaker amp. I think the LCD-2 would work nicely with it. Supposedly, the LCD-X is supposed to work with it really well based on what I've heard so far from other members. I'm going to try it out with all the planars at my headphone shop one of these days. Just waiting for the HE-400i to arrive there, then I'll have access to every current planar headphone from Audeze and Hifiman.


----------



## Mentis

matttcg said:


> Ah ha!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 But would a Lyr 2 with upgraded tubes surpass Val 2? And does Val 2 also have tube upgrades that surpasses the upgraded Lyr 2's?  Sry I'm a questions freak...


----------



## MattTCG

IMO opinion there is no combination of tubes where the lyr2 surpasses the Val2. The lyr2 is about power and dynamics. The hd800 is brutally honest with the source and unquestionably picky about the amp. For me, it comes down to tone and that is the "complementary" trait that the Val2 brings to the table. There is a slight warm tilt with the Val that matches well with the 800 while still allowing it to do what it is exceptional at: imaging, sound stage, air ect.


----------



## purrin

Yeah, but wouldn't it be fun spending $1439.34 with different tubes to just to see if Lyr2 can exceed Val2 in terms of microdynamics and microdetail extraction?


----------



## MattTCG

purrin said:


> Yeah, but wouldn't it be fun spending* $1439.34* with different tubes to just to see if Lyr2 can exceed Val2 in terms of microdynamics and microdetail extraction?


 
  
 That number seems a little light.


----------



## Mentis

matttcg said:


> IMO opinion there is no combination of tubes where the lyr2 surpasses the Val2. The lyr2 is about power and dynamics. The hd800 is brutally honest with the source and unquestionably picky about the amp. For me, it comes down to tone and that is the "complementary" trait that the Val2 brings to the table. There is a slight warm tilt with the Val that matches well with the 800 while still allowing it to do what it is exceptional at: imaging, sound stage, air ect.


 
 Ooohh imaging, soundstage, air..... good then I'm set to save up for Valhalla 2 and skip the Vali   Will purchase from a head-fier once I have the money hehe... (probably too new for the moment to see any for sale anyways)
  
  


purrin said:


> Yeah, but wouldn't it be fun spending $1439.34 with different tubes to just to see if Lyr2 can exceed Val2 in terms of microdynamics and microdetail extraction?


 
 I hope you're joking


----------



## whirlwind

sonido said:


> 62ohm said:
> 
> 
> > 'End Game' is just a fairy tale mate
> ...


----------



## Madmollusk

matttcg said:


> IMO opinion there is no combination of tubes where the lyr2 surpasses the Val2. The lyr2 is about power and dynamics. The hd800 is brutally honest with the source and unquestionably picky about the amp. For me, it comes down to tone and that is the "complementary" trait that the Val2 brings to the table. There is a slight warm tilt with the Val that matches well with the 800 while still allowing it to do what it is exceptional at: imaging, sound stage, air ect.


 
 And with this post, indeed with these very words--*"There is a slight warm tilt with the Val that matches well with the 800 while still allowing it to do what it is exceptional at: imaging, sound stage, air ect*"--I placed my order for the Valhalla 2.  Matt, I feel like I just rubbed the genie's magic bottle and in a dramatic billow of smoke, you appeared to me like some smiling, middle-eastern tramp. Admittedly, by the standards of sane men, you might say that my first wish (“Genie, tell me if I will like the Val2?”) is a complete bust. But if I’m not mistaken, all good genies grant 3 wishes, so rest assured, my next wish will be insanely extravagant. Though I suppose, by the rules of old myth, I should expect my next wish to somehow backfire on me and ruin my life!
  
 Anyway, thanks for this mini-report. You and Purrin seem to be of one mind on this amp, and I can now make my purchase with confidence.


----------



## MattTCG

madmollusk said:


> And with this post, indeed with these very words--*"There is a slight warm tilt with the Val that matches well with the 800 while still allowing it to do what it is exceptional at: imaging, sound stage, air ect*"--I placed my order for the Valhalla 2.  Matt, I feel like I just rubbed the genie's magic bottle and in a dramatic billow of smoke, you appeared to me like some smiling, middle-eastern tramp. Admittedly, by the standards of sane men, you might say that my first wish (“Genie, tell me if I will like the Val2?”) is a complete bust. But if I’m not mistaken, all good genies grant 3 wishes, so rest assured, my next wish will be insanely extravagant. Though I suppose, by the rules of old myth, I should expect my next wish to somehow backfire on me and ruin my life!
> 
> Anyway, thanks for this mini-report. You and Purrin seem to be of one mind on this amp, and I can now make my purchase with confidence.


 
  
 Nice. I hope that you enjoy the match as much as I do. And of course their is the 15 return policy to protect me against any guilt in steering you in that direction. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 BTW...I'm really liking the Val 2 with the hd650, he400i and pm-2. Oh and you can add my vsonic iem's to that list as well.


----------



## Fearless1

purrin said:


> Yeah, but wouldn't it be fun spending $1439.34 with different tubes to just to see if Lyr2 can exceed Val2 in terms of microdynamics and microdetail extraction?


 

 Been there......


----------



## kothganesh

Matt, Purrin, anybody

Any thoughts on a potential pairing of Project Ember with the 800?


----------



## MattTCG

kothganesh said:


> Matt, Purrin, anybody
> 
> Any thoughts on a potential pairing of Project Ember with the 800?


 
  
 Didn't buy, didn't build it, didn't hear it...sorry.


----------



## 62ohm

purrin said:


> Yeah, but wouldn't it be fun spending $1439.34 with different tubes to just to see if Lyr2 can exceed Val2 in terms of microdynamics and microdetail extraction?


 
  
 Purrin,
  
 Do you think the Sonett 2 would be any good if using only stock/not-very-expensive tubes?


----------



## purrin

Never heard Ember, only Sunrise. Sunrise was veiled and less involving compared to Vali, but had warmer sound. I have no clue on Ember though and also no clue about their product line which has five models all around the same price. Manufacturer should make a matrix to denote / summarize differences. Already have headache from trying to read descriptions and specs.


----------



## purrin

62ohm said:


> Purrin,
> 
> Do you think the Sonett 2 would be any good if using only stock/not-very-expensive tubes?


 
  
 Always try to source old-stock tubes. I have never preferred any new production tube to old-stock. But others may differ. I know some like to run those Shuguang big bottles on the Stratus. Even, the cheapest old-stock tube which 50% of its life remaining sounds better than new production.


----------



## soundeffect

Purrin,

Do you feel the sonett 2 performs right where it's pricing is along the WA6SE, bha 1, Wa2, and whatever other amp around its pricing and right below the super 7? Asking because it's not as popular as the others.


----------



## purrin

Yes, the Sonnett is very appropriately placed in terms of pricing - keeping in mind that all those amps you mentioned do sound different and have different capabilities with WA2 being the most gooey. BHA1 being the most solid-state because it is solid-state. WA6 and Super 7 almost sounding like anything depending upon tubes. Sonnett 2 works well with stock HD800. Super 7 and WA6SE with typical tube arrangement, I resort to light EQ or mods. (To give you reference, I think stock HD800 is slightly too bright.) S7 has the most slam. S7 and Sonnett 2 are a little more resolving to the rest. BHA-1 is flattest in terms of microdynamics of the bunch, but has best control and is the least soft.


----------



## 62ohm

purrin said:


> Yes, the Sonnett is very appropriately placed in terms of pricing - keeping in mind that all those amps you mentioned do sound different and have different capabilities with WA2 being the most gooey. BHA1 being the most solid-state because it is solid-state. WA6 and Super 7 almost sounding like anything depending upon tubes. Sonnett 2 works well with stock HD800. Super 7 and WA6SE with typical tube arrangement, I resort to light EQ or mods. (To give you reference, I think stock HD800 is slightly too bright.) S7 has the most slam. S7 and Sonnett 2 are a little more resolving to the rest. BHA-1 is flattest in terms of microdynamics of the bunch, but has best control and is the least soft.


 
  
 Hmm then should I just go with BHA-1 as my secondary amp? I'm worried that if I go with Sonett 2 I would spend a lot more for expensive, premium tubes.. But then again, sometimes that is the fun part of tube amps I guess


----------



## soundeffect

Yes your explanation is very clear and I thank you for that.


----------



## kkcc

bobjs said:


> Question :  All-in-one audiophile quality solid state, balanced, DAC AND Headphone Amp .... does it exist? Recommendations?




You can consider audio-gd nfb28 / nfb10.33.


----------



## 62ohm

Hi guys, what do you think about this graph by headroom:
  

 They seem to suggest that a balanced HD800 measures quite differently than a standard HD800, especially in the upper treble area. While I do notice an improvement of going balanced, most of the difference I heard are only in regard to seperation, soundstage & imaging and so on. I don't hear any difference in the treble area.


----------



## namaiki

http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=-1&graphID[]=4061&graphID[]=2321&graphID[]=863&scale=30
  
 Has that HD800 balanced measurement been up for a while? Is it the "2013" or an older HD800?
  
 http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=-2&graphID[]=4061&graphID[]=2321&graphID[]=863&scale=30
  
 Looking at the raw measurements, the balanced looks more controlled as there is less jumping and spikes in the treble. Balanced looks a lot flatter from 2-8KHz which I assume is due to better control?


----------



## hekeli

It's pointless drawing conclusions without knowing if any of these are the same headphone, measured same day on the same rig in the same position without moving them. Positioning, pad wear etc all make wild variations in the upper areas.
  
 Hmm I could do some balanced measuring experiments with my HD800 & CMA800R. Since you only need to measure one channel, I don't need another monoblock. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Just need to build adapter..
  
 (Seriously doubt if there would be any basic FR or other differences. And as we know, no one has yet come up with a way to measure soundstage..)


----------



## Sorrodje

62ohm said:


> Purrin,
> 
> Do you think the Sonett 2 would be any good if using only stock/not-very-expensive tubes?


 
  
  


62ohm said:


> I'm worried that if I go with Sonett 2 I would spend a lot more for expensive, premium tubes.. But then again, sometimes that is the fun part of tube amps I guess


 
  
 There're not so much possibilities for Tube Rolling on the Sonett. it uses a pair of 6H30p/6N30p  & a GZ34/5AR4 rectifier. There was only one NOS 6H30p , it was the Reflektor 6h30pi-DR "supertubes". They're out of stock so it's very rare and & very expensive. The only two options are Sovtek 6H30p and Electro Harmonix ones. I asked Donald when i purchased my Sonett 2 and i answered me he didn't found the Reflektor 6h30pi brings improvement so I didn't care about these. He said he didn't try EH 6h30p yet . I didn't try myself neither but I will.
  
 For the rectifier, Donald said me he tried a NOS Mullard and find a real improvement . I purchased one here in France ( 100€ Shipped) and I'm happy with the result. There're many other NOS GZ34 but I didnt search a lot. Many of those GZ34 seems to be produced by Mullard ? .
  
 I really appreciate that Sonett doesn't permit so much tube rolling and Works good  with stock tubes.  It's better for my wallet and the peace of my mind . I can listen to music without asking me all the time if there's some better tube combo somewhere  .  The main thing I gained with the metrum + Sonett combo is thart I can switch them on, let them warm a few minutes and forget them when the Music start .


----------



## soundeffect

Sorrodje,

Did you get yours with the TKD volume potentiometer? What's your thought on it? Also, how long did it take for you to receive yours?


----------



## archeryc

Hi guys, has anyone tried the Siltech Dutchess Crown HD800 cable? Can you please let me know how's your feeling for this cable? How's it compare with the Cardas Clear? 
  
 Thanks~


----------



## Sorrodje

soundeffect said:


> Sorrodje,
> 
> Did you get yours with the TKD volume potentiometer? What's your thought on it? Also, how long did it take for you to receive yours?


 
  
 Yes. Donald adviced me the upgrade then I took it and didn't regret it. It's not very expensive but I'm a fan of the sonett volume setting: very smooth and precise , extremely good feeling in the hand. Donald told me it's an upgrade in SQ but I really can''t judge it  . 
  
 One of the main thing I noticed when I discovered the Sonett is how it can sound good at very low volume levels.  The music sounds exactly the same at very low or very loud volumes. this point will never end to impress me . That been said, It's not related to the TKD potentiometer I think.


----------



## drdiem

I follow this thread daily with great interest; I'm picking up all kinds of useful tidbits about how to improve my HD800 experience, so thanks to all who are contributing!
  
 Five months ago I began my search for "an HD650 with more treble". Having listened to many 'phones and simply not found this mythical beast I went for the HD800 because it has such great detail and soundstage and is a clear improvement over the HD650 in most ways. I've applied the Anaxilus 2.0 mod to remove the HD800 sibilance (a great success) and thence tried to get comfortable with the headphone in lean-back listening sessions. Unfortunately I have continually come away disappointed. Somehow I am just not drawn into the music in the same way I used to be with the HD650.
  
 I know my amplifier (the Matrix m-Stage) is low-end, but everyone says that its a good match for the headphone so I can't easily lay the blame there. It is my belief that a DAC has less effect on the sound one hears than the amp (after all the headphone circuit is formed with the amp - the DAC is further removed along the chain) so my thinking is that so long as the DAC is reasonable (I've an HRT microStreamer) one isn't going to make a huge difference to the sound by changing it.
  
 Right now I'm at the point where I'd like to hear the HD800 on a mid-range tube amp (e.g. DNA Sonnett) to see whether that'll solve my lack-of-musical-involvement problem, or continue my headphone quest with my current amplifier.
  
 When I read such good things about the HE-560 I thought that finally there might be a headphone that is my mythical "HD650 with more treble". See my comparative review here. That audition taught me something very important. What I think the HD800 is missing is midrange; its treble range is distinctly louder than it's midrange. For me this is what prevents me from settling in and getting involved in the music.
  
 So then, in my continuing quest to find the "HD650 with more treble" I'm wondering:
  
 - will a better (likely valve) amp fill in the HD800's missing midrange and warmth?
 - would a cable upgrade improve the midrange?
 - what other headphones do people think I should audition?
  
  
 Many thanks in advance for any suggestions,
  
 Ian


----------



## Mcberto

I'm curious if there is a budget DAC that pairs well with the HD 800's like the Vali does as an amp.
  
 Basically I'm asking if there is a "Vali-like" DAC in terms of price and performance.
  
 I know I won't get the most out of the senns but I would like to know if there is such a DAC.
  
 Thanks for any suggestions.


----------



## James-uk

drdiem said:


> I follow this thread daily with great interest; I'm picking up all kinds of useful tidbits about how to improve my HD800 experience, so thanks to all who are contributing!
> 
> Five months ago I began my search for "an HD650 with more treble". Having listened to many 'phones and simply not found this mythical beast I went for the HD800 because it has such great detail and soundstage and is a clear improvement over the HD650 in most ways. I've applied the Anaxilus 2.0 mod to remove the HD800 sibilance (a great success) and thence tried to get comfortable with the headphone in lean-back listening sessions. Unfortunately I have continually come away disappointed. Somehow I am just not drawn into the music in the same way I used to be with the HD650.
> 
> ...




You need the HD600. That is the HD650 with more treble.


----------



## kkcc

IMO different headphones will be more dependent on AMP or DAC differently. I find my HE6 highly dependent on the amp, while my HD800 is more DAC dependent, and my LCD3 isn't as sensitive to either for amp or dac. For HD800 you should gain most by upgrading your DAC. Depending on your budget there would be many choices.


----------



## drdiem

james-uk said:


> You need the HD600. That is the HD650 with more treble.


 
  
 Thanks James, I'll certainly try that. I worry though that it won't be more trebly enough - that it'll be too similar and that there's a better (likely more recent/more expensive) solution. Anyone else have any suggestions for alternate 'phone or whether I can 'fix' the HD800 missing midrange issue with an amp and/or cable?
  


kkcc said:


> IMO different headphones will be more dependent on AMP or DAC differently. I find my HE6 highly dependent on the amp, while my HD800 is more DAC dependent, and my LCD3 isn't as sensitive to either for amp or dac. For HD800 you should gain most by upgrading your DAC. Depending on your budget there would be many choices.


 
  
 Really? Ah jeez. It just got more complicated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ian


----------



## listen4joy

whats better amp for hd800? valhalla 2 or bottlehead crack+sb?


----------



## purrin

drdiem said:


> I know my amplifier (the Matrix m-Stage) is low-end, but everyone says that its a good match for the headphone so I can't easily lay the blame there. It is my belief that a DAC has less effect on the sound one hears than the amp (after all the headphone circuit is formed with the amp - the DAC is further removed along the chain) so my thinking is that so long as the DAC is reasonable (I've an HRT microStreamer) one isn't going to make a huge difference to the sound by changing it.
> 
> Right now I'm at the point where I'd like to hear the HD800 on a mid-range tube amp (e.g. DNA Sonnett) to see whether that'll solve my lack-of-musical-involvement problem, or continue my headphone quest with my current amplifier.
> 
> ...


 
  

Your DAC is more than reasonable at this stage; however read below
A good valve amp will fill in the warmth to varying degree depending upon amp, tubes, etc.
Midrange has never been the HD800's forte. Some HD800s users resort to a resistor ladder DAC, i.e. Metrum, AGD M7, to improve midrange, e.g. vocals.
The M-Stage is a good match for the HD800 in that it's a warm sounding amp which has sufficient power for the HD800 - so that the HD800 does not sound limpish, lean, edgy, nasty. Otherwise, in the overall scheme of things, the M-Stage is pretty craptastic. I owned the M-Stage many years ago.
The good valve amps will sound more involving, more spacious, more layered. more dynamic, less compressed in terms of huge and small volume changes, than the M-Stage (and actually the majority of solid-state amps). Good valve amps have the ability to do these instantaneous swings in small volume changes which the M-Stage cannot do. Really digging into the music. The HD800 will respond to this.
The HD800 is always going to sound like an HD800, on the dry side, analytical; however
You can resort to something syrupy and lush like a Leben, WA2, Cary amp. But honestly, you are better off with an LCD-2 or HE-500 because amps like that take away too much from the inherent strengths of the HD800.
Best to play to the HD800s strengths and do what we can to take off the edge and add some warmth; and live with that. Just one philosophy. I think I've mentioned this before, but I cringe when I see people put over a hundred pounds of supercharger, intercooler, piping over the front wheels of an FR-S/BRZ. Sort of defeats the point of the car.


----------



## purrin

listen4joy said:


> whats better amp for hd800? valhalla 2 or bottlehead crack+sb?


 
  
 Val2 is more resolving, faster, but less warm.


----------



## drdiem

purrin said:


> Your DAC is more than reasonable at this stage; however read below
> A good valve amp will fill in the warmth to varying degree depending upon amp, tubes, etc.
> Midrange has never been the HD800's forte. Some HD800s users resort to a resistor ladder DAC, i.e. Metrum, AGD M7, to improve midrange, e.g. vocals.
> The M-Stage is a good match for the HD800 in that it's a warm sounding amp which has sufficient power for the HD800 - so that the HD800 does not sound limpish, lean, edgy, nasty. Otherwise, in the overall scheme of things, the M-Stage is pretty craptastic. I owned the M-Stage many years ago.
> ...


 
  
 Purrin you're a god-damned star! To the point, no-bull advice of the sort that's so hard to find. Thank you so much!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^^^ Now Purrin we need to take a little of that reviewing time of yours in the HE560 Thread on amp, DAC, wiring options, Marv, give we HiFiMan Heads a little of your unique love !


----------



## purrin

mcberto said:


> I'm curious if there is a budget DAC that pairs well with the HD 800's like the Vali does as an amp.
> 
> Basically I'm asking if there is a "Vali-like" DAC in terms of price and performance.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wyrd + Modi $200. Wyrd is there to provide better power to Modi since Modi sucks USB for power which isn't ideal and leads to all sorts of different sounds. My experience with Modi was that it sounded lean and fuzzy. Wyrd's power and data line reclocking was just the trick for Modi.
  
 Loki $150 (possibly less with B stock since Schiit factory had water damage from broken sprinkler.) DSD DAC only, but I use JRiver MC19 which can convert PCM to DSD in real-time and feed DoP directly to Loki. Loki is a bit warmer sounding but with softened attacks compared to above combination. Wyrd does not seem to do as much on Loki than on Modi.


----------



## preproman

kkcc said:


> IMO different headphones will be more dependent on AMP or DAC differently. I find my HE6 highly dependent on the amp, *while my HD800 is more DAC dependent, *and my LCD3 isn't as sensitive to either for amp or dac. *For HD800 you should gain most by upgrading your DAC*. Depending on your budget there would be many choices.


 
  
  
 I know you did the IMO - I don't that's correct to recommend a beginner.   The amp / HD800 paring is definitely more important.  Yeah - I see that's your opinion.  This is just mine I guess.


----------



## purrin

drdiem said:


> Purrin you're a god-damned star! To the point, no-bull advice of the sort that's so hard to find. Thank you so much!


 
  
 Welcome, but you are giving me way too much credit. I've read your posts. You know that you are doing.
  


wildcatsare1 said:


> ^^^ Now Purrin we need to take a little of that reviewing time of yours in the HE560 Thread on amp, DAC, wiring options, Marv, give we HiFiMan Heads a little of your unique love !


 
  
 I can handle only so much potential train-wreck HF thread at once since I'm already knee deep in the PM-1 thread (the regular non-impressions). The HE-560 thread has some people who know what they are doing; and the HE-560 is not nearly as difficult as the HD800 to deal with, especially with the Focus-A (pre-production?) pads.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

purrin said:


> Welcome, but you are giving me way too much credit. I've read your posts. You know that you are doing.
> 
> 
> I can handle only so much potential train-wreck HF thread at once since I'm already knee deep in the PM-1 thread (the regular non-impressions). The HE-560 thread has some people who know what they are doing; and the HE-560 is not nearly as difficult as the HD800 to deal with, especially with the Focus-A (pre-production?) pads.



that
Purrin, thanks.....my Guess is a good DAC, is a good DAC, for either HD800 or HE560's, looking at the Gungnir, love the dynamics, it as the original promise of digital. Thought I could live without the 800, but after speaking to Matt, eventually I must have one.


----------



## MattTCG

wildcatsare1 said:


> that
> Purrin, thanks.....my Guess is a good DAC, is a good DAC, for either HD800 or HE560's, looking at the Gungnir, love the dynamics, it as the original promise of digital. Thought I could live without the 800, but after speaking to Matt, eventually I must have one.


 
  
 Uh oh...converted another one.


----------



## Zoom25

mcberto said:


> I'm curious if there is a budget DAC that pairs well with the HD 800's like the Vali does as an amp.
> 
> Basically I'm asking if there is a "Vali-like" DAC in terms of price and performance.
> 
> ...


 
 Call Emotiva. Ask for a used DC-1. Goes for $399. Comes with full warranty. It seriously has end game capabilities - minus DSD.


----------



## Sorrodje

drdiem said:


> It is my belief that a DAC has less effect on the sound one hears than the amp (after all the headphone circuit is formed with the amp - the DAC is further removed along the chain) so my thinking is that so long as the DAC is reasonable (I've an HRT microStreamer) one isn't going to make a huge difference to the sound by changing it.
> Ian


 
  
 Hi Ian.
  
 As I wrote you in our MPs : When I pruchased my HD800 on year ago , i had the HRT mS. Great Little DAC/AMP ; I enjoyed it a lot with my previous headphones but... IMO the combo with HD800 is awful. The mS is wayyy too bright and agressive for HD800.  You should really consider another dac before selling your HD800 for another headphone IMO  . Try an old but cheap used dacmagic or a modi which is Higly praised here or even a hifimediy which is not a so great dac but is more enjoyable with the HD800 than the HRT mS . I experienced dacmagic, Hifimediy myself and the result is far from perfect but far more bearable than Microstreamer/HD800 combo.  
  
 I thought as you do that the DAC is not so important. With the HD800 i owned or tried HRT mS, Hifimediy, Dacmagic , Rega DAC, HEGEL HD10, TEAC UD501, Audio GD Ref5 , Metrum Octave , Auralic Ark Mx+ , totaldac D1 dual and some others . The DAC does make a difference IMO  . I don't know if it makes more or less difference than amp but it really does.


----------



## drdiem

sorrodje said:


> Hi Ian.
> 
> As I wrote you in our MPs : When I pruchased my HD800 on year ago , i had the HRT mS. Great Little DAC/AMP ; I enjoyed it a lot with my previous headphones but... IMO the combo with HD800 is awful. The mS is wayyy too bright and agressive for HD800.  You should really consider another dac before selling your HD800 for another headphone IMO  . Try an old but cheap used dacmagic or a modi which is Higly praised here or even a hifimediy which is not a so great dac but is more enjoyable with the HD800 than the HRT mS . I experienced dacmagic , Hifimediy myself and the reult is fat form perfect but far more bearable than Microstreamer/HD800 combo.
> 
> I thought as you do that the DAC is not so important. With the HD800 i owned or tried HRT mS, Hifimediy, Dacmagic , Rega DAC, HEGEL HD10, TEAC UD501, Audio GD Ref5 , Metrum Octave , Auralic Ark Mx+ , totaldac D1 dual and some others . The DAC does make a difference IMO  . I don't know if it makes more or less difference than amp but it really does.


 
  
 Hi Sorrodje,
  
 So you own what my research says is _the_ midrange HD800 combination - the Metrum Octave and DNA Sonnett. Tell me, what are your impressions of the mids from the HD800 with this combination compared to other DAC/amp combos? Are the mids noticeably more forward than with lesser equipment? Do they balance out better with the treble?
  
 The decision I'm trying to make you see is whether I stick with the HD800 and improve the mids through DAC/amp, or give up on the HD800 as just not being adequately warm and involving for my taste and getting a different headphone.
  
 Thanks for any impressions you might have,
  
 Ian


----------



## Sorrodje

drdiem said:


> Hi Sorrodje,
> 
> So you own what my research says is _the_ midrange HD800 combination - the Metrum Octave and DNA Sonnett. Tell me, what are your impressions of the mids from the HD800 with this combination compared to other DAC/amp combos? Are the mids noticeably more forward than with lesser equipment? Do they balance out better with the treble?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think I will follow Purrin's footsteps here. I don"t think the HD800 is the best headphone for gorgeous mids. the HD650/600 or Audeze is the way to go for everyone looks for this kind of coloration.
  
 I differ form him for the Metrum. I don't think the metrum is king for mids.  this dac sounds full , bottomed , detailed and somewhat "real" without any ounce of "digittus" . maybe a slight bit too laidback for my tastes but IMO , it doesn't bring up the mids. My previous Rega dac was more "mids happy" with a lovely coloration , very good and involving combo with the HD800 despite the fact the rega is obviously not in the same league than the Metrum Octave . Rega dac has what we call in France this "english sound" refined, smooth with gorgeous mids.
  
 It 's hard for me to qualify my own rig. The sonett is not very coloured to my ears . it brings something special for dynamics , low level information ( think background of the soundstage and "feeling" of the studio or the concert hall) and sounsstage homogeneity at every volume level. The sound personality comes mostly of the Metrum octave . This dac is IMO perfectly oriented to modern musics I listen to : Electronic music, contemporary jazz,  well recorded Indie Music . the metrum is impactful , with great bass , overally very real tone with a perfect reproduction of drums & other percussions. In my experience , the metrum is not too forgiving and bad recorded/mastered sound bad. but the slightly laid back nature allow us to listen to everything without real displeasure.
  
 For the mids, the fact is I listen a lot of vocal music since I had the HD800. Another fact is that since I have the Metrum & sonett, I don't complain about excessive sibilance anymore ( with HD800... with the T1 it's another story 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ) and mids are perfect for my tastes. but I'm sensitive to 2/3 khz area and I dislike headphones with boosted 2-3 khz range.
  
 That been said , this combo matches perfectly my musical tastes and I listen hours of music each day without avoiding the half of my music library which would be unlistenable with an inappropriate HD800 combo.   Everyone here should understand what i'm talking about


----------



## Sorrodje

.


----------



## purrin

Just to clarify on the Metrum. No, it isn't a mid-centric DAC in that emphasizes the mids. (I'm not sure I would like such a DAC.) But what it does have is a satisfying timbre which renders voices most naturally and pleasantly. People talk about digititus with DACs, and often this most directly relates to the treble. But a huge aspect for me is also how digititus affects voices, especially the harmonics of overtones of such. We are probably most sensitive to how voices are rendered more than anything else, and for good reason.
  
 HD800 mids with resolving amp from Metrum > HD800 mids with resolving amp from a hypothetical $799 Chinese SABRE DAC (or almost any SABRE DAC.)
  
 @Sorrodje: all the things you describe about the Sonnett 2 are even further realized with the Stratus. I couldn't go back to Sonnett after hearing Stratus.


----------



## Sorrodje

purrin said:


> @Sorrodje: all the things you describe about the Sonnett 2 are even further realized with the Stratus. I couldn't go back to Sonnett after hearing Stratus.


 
  
  
 Shut up .. or give me your wallet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .
  
 Now i know what is my upgrade but i'll consider it in a few years. For now, I'm done with my HD800 rig. It's time to discover seriously other headphones . I've the T1 currently and I'm making my review for the french website I write for before selling it. I'll consider HE-500 and/or HD650 next.
  
  
 PS : I see what you mean with mids/trebles & vocals and their overtones. indeed, the Metrum Sound is maybe the more "real" aka "natural" sound I've heard after the Totaldac. I'm done with DAC technology : R2R forever


----------



## James-uk

It seems logic and reason has taken a back seat in this thread. If I was a noob I would imagine the HD800 as some wild beast that needs putting in a cage. The truth is that it's voiced in a way that is amazing or frustrating depending on the recording. No amount of tweaking in the last 5 years has changed that fact so shouldn't we just accept that it's the nature of the HD800 'beast' ? ( basically what I'm saying is if we can't agree that analaxus mod plus (insert expensive tube amp) makes the HD800 into something it's not then surely it's time look at other options? I personally think the HD800 is a remarkable headphone but it can't polish a turd. A schiit recording is a schiit recording! For them recordings I reach for something to hide the truth. Heck somedays I prefer my car stereo to any of my gear. It is what it is. I'm not saying we shouldn't crave for more ( this is headfi) but sometimes it's good just to appreciate and enjoy how lucky we all are to be able to hear music in such privileged way instead of looking for faults that can't be fixed. Not many people can say that. Sorry for the rant but I just felt the urge for some perspective. Love you all! James


----------



## BournePerfect

wildcatsare1 said:


> that
> Purrin, thanks.....my Guess is a good DAC, is a good DAC, for either HD800 or HE560's, looking at the Gungnir, love the dynamics, it as the original promise of digital. Thought I could live without the 800, but after speaking to Matt, eventually I must have one.




There are plenty of people around here who couldn't stand the Gungnir coupled w/ the HD800-myself included. In fact it's the only dac I've owned so far that gave me problems with the Senn. Way to aggressive and somewhat bright sounding made for a terrible pairing to my ears-with a few different amps even. Also, it's definitely not the last word in microdetail or soundstage depth, thus hindering a couple of the 800s main strengths.

As always, try to audition one, everything's subjective, ymmv yadda yadda. My .02.

-Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

james-uk said:


> It seems logic and reason has taken a back seat in this thread. If I was a noob I would imagine the HD800 as some wild beast that needs putting in a cage. The truth is that it's voiced in a way that is amazing or frustrating depending on the recording. No amount of tweaking in the last 5 years has changed that fact so shouldn't we just accept that it's the nature of the HD800 'beast' ? ( basically what I'm saying is if we can't agree that analaxus mod plus (insert expensive tube amp) makes the HD800 into something it's not then surely it's time look at other options? I personally think the HD800 is a remarkable headphone but it can't polish a turd. A schiit recording is a schiit recording! For them recordings I reach for something to hide the truth. Heck somedays I prefer my car stereo to any of my gear. It is what it is. I'm not saying we shouldn't crave for more ( this is headfi) but sometimes it's good just to appreciate and enjoy how lucky we all are to be able to hear music in such privileged way instead of looking for faults that can't be fixed. Not many people can say that. Sorry for the rant but I just felt the urge for some perspective. Love you all! James




Keep in mind some of those turds that need polishing aren't just recordings, but also some crap gear. The HD800 is a sonic chameleon.

-Daniel


----------



## Sorrodje

james-uk said:


> It seems logic and reason has taken a back seat in this thread.


 
  
  
 I don't understand why ?
  
 PS : No offense here but I really don't understand your point


----------



## James-uk

bourneperfect said:


> Keep in mind some of those turds that need polishing aren't just recordings, but also some crap gear. The HD800 is a sonic chameleon.
> 
> -Daniel




You say that but surely if that was the case we would all have settled on a rig already. Even the ones that seem happy mention a future upgrade which suggests they are not 100% satisfied no? Basically nobody has convinced this thread of a setup that rules them all. Eq would be more effective to suit individual tastes .


----------



## James-uk

sorrodje said:


> I don't understand why ?
> 
> PS : No offense here but I really don't understand your point


 

Basically lots of misleading, exaggerated and subjective posts about amps and dacs. It's like everyone forgot that opinions do need to be backed up with evidence to have any meaning. Some influential people in here and many will just accept their opinion as fact .


----------



## BournePerfect

james-uk said:


> You say that but surely if that was the case we would all have settled on a rig already. Even the ones that seem happy mention a future upgrade which suggests they are not 100% satisfied no? Basically nobody has convinced this thread of a setup that rules them all. Eq would be more effective to suit individual tastes .




Just the opposite actually...we haven't all settled on a rig _because_ it is a chameleon. Meaning the rigs all sound different because the HD800 is such a sonic microscope, and frankly, never the weak link in the chain. It's ceiling, if you will, will likely never be reached, especially on any reasonable budget. Subjectively sure, objectively, doubtful. That's part of the fun of the 800s imo-being able to test other gears on.

Don't get me wrong, I can absolutely enjoy the Senns on a budget amp/dac like many here can attest to. But to dismiss the fact (not pointing fingers here) that the Senn can't scale _markedly better_ on much higher end equipment, serves an injustice to both the listener and the Senns. Could I be happy with the Senns long term with a very modest Vali/Bifrost combo? Absolutely! Does that combo reach the satisfaction I heard from a ZDSE or P1u even? _Hell no._

-Daniel


----------



## Sorrodje

james-uk said:


> Basically lots of misleading, exaggerated and subjective posts about amps and dacs. It's like everyone forgot that opinions do need to be backed up with evidence to have any meaning. Some influential people in here and many will just accept their opinion as fact .


 
  
  
 Is that an opinion or a fact ?


----------



## James-uk

sorrodje said:


> Is that an opinion or a fact ? :tongue_smile:




I like to think of it as the truth!


----------



## purrin

This ISIS guy likes to think of it as truth too.


----------



## drez

lol


----------



## kkcc

preproman said:


> I know you did the IMO - *I don't that's correct to recommend a beginner.*   The amp / HD800 paring is definitely more important.  Yeah - I see that's your opinion.  This is just mine I guess.




Yup I can also understand where you coming from and yes I think my opinion was in the context of it might be harder to gain more for hd800 assuming one already has a decent level of amp performance/output maybe like a v200 or soloist while HE6 continue to scale more with amp.


----------



## Drsparis

mcberto said:


> I'm curious if there is a budget DAC that pairs well with the HD 800's like the Vali does as an amp.
> 
> Basically I'm asking if there is a "Vali-like" DAC in terms of price and performance.


 
 E-MU 0404 USB!!! or Audio poutine's cDAC+


----------



## ruthieandjohn

drdiem said:


> Thanks James, I'll certainly try that. I worry though that it won't be more trebly enough - that it'll be too similar and that there's a better (likely more recent/more expensive) solution. Anyone else have any suggestions for alternate 'phone or whether I can 'fix' the HD800 missing midrange issue with an amp and/or cable?
> 
> 
> Really? Ah jeez. It just got more complicated
> ...


 

 You might be interested in the DEALS thread recent posting on special on the Sennheiser HD 600:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/692119/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post/6645#post_10798359


----------



## drdiem

ruthieandjohn said:


> You might be interested in the DEALS thread recent posting on special on the Sennheiser HD 600:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/692119/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post/6645#post_10798359


 
  
 Thanks for the tip!!


----------



## Sherwood

james-uk said:


> A schiit recording is a schiit recording! For them recordings I reach for something to hide the truth.


 
  
 I know this belief is widespread, but it has never made any sense to me.  I listen to a lot of clipped, closed-in, close-miked digital recordings, and I want them to sound exactly as they sound.  Sometimes the bad recording quality detracts from the music, in my eyes, but I can't fix that problem by glossing over it.
  
 I don't see the urge to hide the truth as being true to our purpose here.  We should strive for fidelity, friend, not euphony.


----------



## SilverEars

kkcc said:


> Yup I can also understand where you coming from and yes I think my opinion was in the context of it might be harder to gain more for hd800 assuming one already has a decent level of amp performance/output maybe like a v200 or soloist while *HE6 continue to scale more with amp.*


 
 There should be no scaling like how HD800 is typically discussed.  HE-6 is reacts well as long as ample power is provided. I've looked at it's power requirement and GSX barely provides enough power. It's very power hungry as many of already know.  It takes 3W to get up to 110dB. This is the reason why people are getting less than stellar performance with some headphone amps. No resonance in it's response, it's flat like a resistor with no phase variation. Give it what it needs, it should output it's characteristic curve.   Solo's output impedance of 30ohms to HE-6's 43ohms will reduce significan't power output from the amp to not providing sufficient enough power to drive it well.  Same for V200 even if it's output impedance is 0 as they don't like to provide the output impedance value?  Mjolnir on the other hand, with output impedance of 1.5, looks to have enough power capability to drive the HE-6 sufficiently.  O2 amp's power capability is way too low for what the HE-6 require, and it will sound like crap.


sherwood said:


> I know this belief is widespread, but it has never made any sense to me.  I listen to a lot of clipped, closed-in, close-miked digital recordings, and I want them to sound exactly as they sound.  Sometimes the bad recording quality detracts from the music, in my eyes, but I can't fix that problem by glossing over it.
> 
> I don't see the urge to hide the truth as being true to our purpose here.  We should strive for fidelity, friend, not euphony.


 
 I agree with this.  People take that statement to oversimplification.  It's overused rationalization of HD800 not sounding well with high percentage of genres.


----------



## PleasantSounds

sherwood said:


> We should strive for fidelity, friend, not euphony.


 
  
 Why?


----------



## Sherwood

pleasantsounds said:


> Why?


 
 I have a feeling that you might disagree with me, given your username, but it's because of the value in objective rather than subjective goals.  Basically, we are here to consume music, not produce it.  Music is a finished product, it sounds the way it sounds, and it should be heard that way, too.  
  
 Music criticism has not evolved to the point where "artist intent" is no longer relevant -- in this field, we are trying to better connect with the song as it is presented to us.  An objectively superior transducer does that better, and makes us better listeners.  Inferior transducers used to produce a desired effect can be musical, but they're not really faithful, and that's what being an audiophile is about.  For many years, this has been a place for audiophile discussion, and I think it should remain as such.  Using different headphones for different music, to cover up hot recordings or emphasize bass on certain tracks, runs counter to the goals of a hobbyist audiophile because it deliberately alters the source. I have called the process of altering playback for different songs "sound effects" before, and I think that's a good word.  You're adding sound effects on top of the music when you, say, play songs in your car instead of on your reference gear because you don't like how they're recorded.
  
 That is not to say that there is no place for discussion of sound effects, and I think Head-Fi in general is a great place for it, but not in Summit-Fi.  This area is broken off for a reason, because it is intended to discuss the pursuit of fidelity in music playback.  You ascend to the Summit to find the truth.  Otherwise, you could just stay in the valley.


----------



## 62ohm

sherwood said:


> pleasantsounds said:
> 
> 
> > Why?
> ...


 
  
 +1, very well said.


----------



## PleasantSounds

sherwood said:


> I have a feeling that you might disagree with me, given your username, but it's because of the value in objective rather than subjective goals.  Basically, we are here to consume music, not produce it.  Music is a finished product, it sounds the way it sounds, and it should be heard that way, too.
> 
> Music criticism has not evolved to the point where "artist intent" is no longer relevant -- in this field, we are trying to better connect with the song as it is presented to us.  An objectively superior transducer does that better, and makes us better listeners.  Inferior transducers used to produce a desired effect can be musical, but they're not really faithful, and that's what being an audiophile is about.  For many years, this has been a place for audiophile discussion, and I think it should remain as such.  Using different headphones for different music, to cover up hot recordings or emphasize bass on certain tracks, runs counter to the goals of a hobbyist audiophile because it deliberately alters the source. I have called the process of altering playback for different songs "sound effects" before, and I think that's a good word.  You're adding sound effects on top of the music when you, say, play songs in your car instead of on your reference gear because you don't like how they're recorded.
> 
> That is not to say that there is no place for discussion of sound effects, and I think Head-Fi in general is a great place for it, but not in Summit-Fi.  This area is broken off for a reason, because it is intended to discuss the pursuit of fidelity in music playback.  You ascend to the Summit to find the truth.  Otherwise, you could just stay in the valley.


 
  
 As you have anticipated, I do not entirely agree. 
  
 First and foremost I am are here to enjoy music, not to pursue some evasive truth. Your aim may be different but I'd appreciate if you expressed it as an opinion, not a dogma that should apply to everyone. It doesn't.
  
 You're saying more or less that if I'm not prepared to suffer displeasure while listening to poorly finished productions, I should "stay in the valley" and be confined to a car stereo... Nice one... Well - there are other options, including ditching the bad stuff.
  
 Regarding the summit-fi, there's probably more gear with "sound effects" discussed here than anywhere else in head-fi. Many mid-range products these days provide enough "truth" for most of the folks. Summit-fi in my view is more about satisfying our preferences. For some it is indeed about squeezing the last 0.5% of the "truth" from the source, others may be more interested in coloring the sound the way they like or masking production flaws. The common denominator seems to be the impact on our wallets that these toys make rather than their ability to convey the truth.
  
 Oh, I almost forgot: Years ago I have been involved in music production and know this business from the kitchen side too. I'm mentioning this because of the often quoted "artist's intent" that many believe is what they are dealing with when listening to an album. In many cases it is as intended by artists, but this is probably not even half of the commercial production. The rest is just a compromise between the artist's intent and the production deadlines, budgets, skills of the engineers and probably the most importantly: the prevailing majority of audience who does not give a @#$% about the quality because their earbuds and car stereos work best with heavily compressed music.


----------



## mikemercer

purrin said:


> Sixteen years ago, a wise man told me that I was an dick. I really didn't understand him at the time, because I liked to think of myself as a nice guy and really didn't want to be a dick. But as the years passed, I realized that he meant that even though I didn't want to be an dick, the mere fact that I was a human being meant that I would always be a dick to at at least someone else or some bug or some tree.
> 
> Prepo had a good point. I could have handled this with political correctness. So I'm now faced with this decision. Should I become unclear, murky, and mysterious like Six Moons or should I just say it as it is - how a piece of equipment makes me feel - channeling Mike Mercer here because he's right - ultimately it's about how it makes you feel. I probably enjoying Mercer more than I would care to admit. Now consider this. If I don't like something and I wimp out and say nothing, I'm actually being a dick to potential customers who may not know what they are getting into. If I say it is not good, I'm now being a dick to the vendor. If I take the Six Moon route, then I'm a spineless POS or a NATO european "peacekeeper" soldier not worthy of human birth.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the kind words Marv - seriously bro.
 Been a rough couple of weeks since CanMania at Capital Audio Fest (wifeys not doin so well and other family s__) - I know our styles and outlooks are different when it comes to writing/impressions/things like that - but I've always respected your approach, as you know.
  
 I'm psyched you get where I'm coming from - the OLD SCHOOL way of Hp and _The Absolute Sound_ (how the gear is the vehicle to the MUSIC we love) - so it's about how that music touches me - and if the gear makes for a transparent conduit to the magic of the music - then BANG!!
  
 Anyway - good lookin' out.
 You made my week bro.





  
*and this configuration is hittin' me in my soul this week:*
 Amarra Symphony 3.02 - McIntosh D100 DAC / VPI Traveler w/ Ortofon 2MBlue cart w/ Gingko Cloud9T IsoBase & Unison Research Simply Phono tube stage as sources -
 Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold
 Audeze LCD-2s w/ Fazor (my current favorite Audeze cans)
 w/ Double Helix Cables Molecule SE w/ Fusion balanced on the Audezes
 & ALL Nordost Heimdall for signal cables

 and in the spirit of this thread - I just hooked up my HD800s to the rig via Nordost Heimdall Hphone cable - and WHOAH - gorgeous!
 BUMPIN' Hecq's new Conversions remix LP - and w/ my HD800s - this is taking me back to the Underground Brooklyn S.T.O.R.M Rave scene!
 Crispy, extended highs - silky mid-band, and rippling low-end.
  
 So thanks for inspiring me to get the HD800s in the mix too!!

 (not using the S6 for listening here - just running signal into a new pair of closed-back cans for break-in, the HD800s are over the LAu)


----------



## Sherwood

pleasantsounds said:


> Regarding the summit-fi, there's probably more gear with "sound effects" discussed here than anywhere else in head-fi.


 
  
 You're not wrong, but I can't fight everyone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You mentioned "truth" four times in your reply, mostly disparagingly and in quotes.  I used it in my justification because james_uk used it in his original statement.  I can see that it rankled you, which was not my intent. It does make a useful rhetorical device however, as the name of this forum,Summit-Fi, was clearly chosen to evoke a sense of truth-seeking pilgrimage.  Throughout the world, this is what going to the summit of a mountain represents.  From Dharamsala to Moses and the Ten Commanments, summits have an international cultural significance.  Otherwise this could be Pinnacle-Fi, Apex-Fi, or Zenith-Fi.  The fact that much of the discussion here does not hew to that intent is not a good excuse for why none of it should.  Neither of us are moderators, but I would like to encourage a more rigorous discussion here, less about serving our individual preferences and more about pursuing meaningful improvements in our systems and our ears.
  
  


pleasantsounds said:


> First and foremost I am are here to enjoy music, not to pursue some evasive truth. Your aim may be different but I'd appreciate if you expressed it as an opinion, not a dogma that should apply to everyone. It doesn't.


 
  
 Surely you're not upset that I answered your direct question directly.  I made a normative statement in an above post, you asked me to justify it, and I did.  Obviously everything posted here is someone's opinion, unless we're citing sources or quoting measurements.
  
  


pleasantsounds said:


> You're saying more or less that if I'm not prepared to suffer displeasure while listening to poorly finished productions, I should "stay in the valley" and be confined to a car stereo... Nice one... Well - there are other options, including ditching the bad stuff.


 
  
 Of course I'm not saying that, buy whatever gear you want.  I don't care what you own, I just care about the tenor of discussion on this forum.  The car stereo references one that James-uk spoke of earlier, not any sort of suggestion to you on recommended gear.  I _do _think you're in the minority of listeners when you describe listening to brickwall mastering as suffering displeasure, but that is your wont.
  
 I look at my entire chain -- source, amp, headphones, etc. -- as tools.  Just like a soldering iron or safety goggles, I want to use the best one that I can use at all times, within reason and practicality.  When I'm soldering something, I'm not doing it because I enjoy the construction of the soldering iron.  That's irrelevant, except insofar as makes it less awkward to use.  I wouldn't wear safety goggles if I didn't need them, and I wouldn't wear anything but my best pair under normal circumstances.
  
 Likewise with headphones.  Just like you, I use them to listen to music.  They're a tool to get me closer to it.  The only reason why I prefer listening to my HD800s over the speaker on my iPhone is that the HD800s give me more information.  They reveal more of what is there.  That is what High Fidelity means, and Hi-Fi is where this all started.


----------



## icebear

sherwood said:


> I have a feeling that you might disagree with me, given your username, but it's because of the value in objective rather than subjective goals.  Basically, we are here to consume music, not produce it.  Music is a finished product, it sounds the way it sounds, and it should be heard that way, too.
> 
> Music criticism has not evolved to the point where "artist intent" is no longer relevant -- in this field, we are trying to better connect with the song as it is presented to us.  An objectively superior transducer does that better, and makes us better listeners.  Inferior transducers used to produce a desired effect can be musical, but they're not really faithful, and that's what being an audiophile is about.  For many years, this has been a place for audiophile discussion, and I think it should remain as such.  Using different headphones for different music, to cover up hot recordings or emphasize bass on certain tracks, runs counter to the goals of a hobbyist audiophile because it deliberately alters the source. I have called the process of altering playback for different songs "sound effects" before, and I think that's a good word.  You're adding sound effects on top of the music when you, say, play songs in your car instead of on your reference gear because you don't like how they're recorded.
> 
> That is not to say that there is no place for discussion of sound effects, and I think Head-Fi in general is a great place for it, but not in Summit-Fi.  This area is broken off for a reason, because it is intended to discuss the pursuit of fidelity in music playback.  You ascend to the Summit to find the truth.  Otherwise, you could just stay in the valley.


 

 As your Keenan quote signature suggests, being tolerant is very important.
 I completely agree that Summit fi should strive for the utmost true to the orig. performance reproduction and a lot of discussion is about "fixing things up with tape" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 From my point of view the HD is true to the source and it reveals any fault in the recording as well as in the rest of the set up, especially the DAC. This is like a 100% view in Lightroom. It will surely show you at pixel level if you messed up the exposure or had camera shake. If someone doesn't want to see this ugly truth, well then that's completely OK with me, choose what ever listening style give you pleasure [-> Keenan] - but the important point is that people then start to look at the HD800 as the reason for the trouble.
 The headphone is just revealing the truth it is not creating the trouble.
  
 For me the source is most important, that does include the recording, of course.
 If the particular music style is not really known for high fidelity recordings, then it might just be not such a good idea to get an HD800 ...
 Most agree that the HD800 is good for classic and Jazz, me too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Sorrodje

> The only reason why I prefer listening to my HD800s over the speaker on my iPhone is that the HD800s give me more information.  They reveal more of what is there.  That is what High Fidelity means, and Hi-Fi is where this all started.


 
  
  
 True. But I much prefer when  this young women :
  

  
 explain me the concept of High fidelity. That is the kind of enjoyment I look for when I listen to music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ( Purrin: shut up about Stratus please lol )
  
 We're in the HD800 thread here. Nobody would be here if we didn't look for accuracy and fidelity to the recording. But , you would maybe excuse me , I much prefer my fideliy when I enjoy the music I listen to. HD800 has some inherent "flaws" . its treble happy nature combined with its fastness and its slightly analytical nature can produce harshness that can bother some of us.  (Me for example). So we like to cook our HD800 with our own sauce ( AKA mod, gear, EQ or whatever you want) in order to have the best result ( aka the most accurate & enjoyable ).  I don't understand why accuracy should exclude enjoyment and moreover why summit-fi would exclude music enjoyment too.


----------



## PleasantSounds

sherwood said:


> Neither of us are moderators, but I would like to encourage a more rigorous discussion here, less about serving our individual preferences and more about pursuing meaningful improvements in our systems and our ears.


 
  
 I don't want to derail this thread, therefore this is my last post on this topic.
  
 If anything in your posts has ticked me off that would be the attitude captured in the above quote. What gives you the right to decide what the discussion should be about? Your interpretation of the Summit-fi purpose? Some people may choose to pursue meaningless in your view improvements and it is their right to discuss them here. And what you would consider an improvement some may call torture. Who is right?
  
 No one is stopping you from pursuing your goals here (and I would be happy to see this kind of discussion flourish), but it would be nice to acknowledge that others may be interested in something different. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## Sherwood

sorrodje said:


> That is the kind of enjoyment I look for when I listen to music.


 
  
 I'll tell you what: if I had a recording of her singing me "Happy Birthday", I'd rather hear it on HD800s than a car radio.  I don't care what mic she used


----------



## Sorrodje

sherwood said:


> I'll tell you what: if I had a recording of her singing me "Happy Birthday", I'd rather hear it on HD800s than a car radio. * I don't care what mic she used*


 
  
  
 Blasphemy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . .We're in the Summit-fi Section or not ?


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Ok I just did up sample thing. Not good for me. Yea it takes the edge off of PCM. As PCM cuts sometimes. But you loose resolution and defiantly dynamics. Not for me. At all. I used the ref redbook tracks I use of count Basie. It's clear as a bell but it's fluffy. It could be others may like this. But as I am an edgy type of guy. Give me my scotch strat up neet please. No ice .
The test was done on a custom caps all the goodies In play , off the grid and SER 2012 with audio,optimizer.

Short of the test this dac does amazing PCM. It has dynamics that will lift the top of your head off and maintains a clarity at the same time. The tracks I used are form Pablo records . Count Basie Kansas City shout . A must have red book cd

I can clearly hear the echo of his voice while he chews on his juices and flows into his voice. You can hear his swagger as he sings. Great stuff. Hope this helps someone.

Of course using the hd800 and the senn hvdvd800 as amp,only. I swear if one more person post these headphones are Brite I will hunt them down . 

Al


----------



## icebear

alrainbow said:


> ...
> 
> Of course using the hd800 and the senn hvdvd800 as amp,only. *I swear if one more person post these headphones are Brite I will hunt them down .*
> 
> Al


 
 ROFL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Have fun hunting, you'll be busy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## ALRAINBOW

Yea lol. When people say it I say by a better dac or amp. The details in these headphones is just amazing. 

Al


----------



## preproman

> But as I am an edgy type of guy.
> 
> Al


 
  
 The difference is here ^^    I'm the same way - Some HD800 users are not..


----------



## Sorrodje

preproman said:


> The difference is here ^^    I'm the same way - Some HD800 users are not..


 
  
  
 This . Many people, many different way to hear things and to enjoy music.  Music and people matters more than headphone or gear and it seems legit finally 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  
  
  
 The HD800 is not bright . it's treble happy . That's ok Al" ? please , put away this gun and stay calm! i didn't say bright


----------



## ALRAINBOW

What's in your caps 
OS and parts. Do you win server 2012 and audio optimizer


----------



## preproman

Yup server 2012 R2 and audio optimizer w/Jplay and JRiver.  SOtM USB card has it's own linear PSU.  Also both enclosure CPU and Hard drive station have there own PSUs as well.  I use to run my music of my unRAID NAS - but went to stand along, makes for better timing = no buffering.
  
 Mini-Client 2500 - http://atechfabrication.com/products/mini_client_2500.htm
 Mass Storage 2500 - http://atechfabrication.com/products/mass_storage_2500.htm


----------



## MattTCG

It's funny. I have always been a darker signature kind of guy when it comes to hp's. But when I spent a week with the 800's expecting to cross them off my bucket list and move on...I had to have them. For me, they have the best treble I've ever heard, including stats. Is it extended and lively? Heck yeah. But it takes me to a place that other hp's can not.


----------



## jsgraha

Off topic alert!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2725331/Michelle-Rodriguez-gets-hot-sweaty-partying-Ibiza.html

I would love to know her source, transport and amp


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jsgraha said:


> Off topic alert!
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2725331/Michelle-Rodriguez-gets-hot-sweaty-partying-Ibiza.html
> 
> I would love to know her source, transport and amp


 
  
 Seeing as she doesn't know which way to wear them, I don't think what she is using would matter to me...


----------



## Madmollusk

alrainbow said:


> Of course using the hd800 and the senn hvdvd800 as amp,only. I swear if one more person post these headphones are Brite I will hunt them down .
> 
> Al


 
 You know, I never considered the HD800 bright even when using them with the Fiio E9. And when driven by even marginally synergistic gear (that’s all I've owned so far), the HD800 has happily demonstrated some transcendent abilities (in the context of headphone imaging and frequency-responsiveness).  It's the only headphone, for example, that draws me completely *into* the music. From time to time, I'm tempted to call the HD800's imaging/staging abilities holographic, but the more I think about it, the word "holographic" just doesn't cut it. 
  
 The HD800 takes imaging and staging to the next level; these amazing cans (to my humble ears) have the ability to re-create a musical venue or environment, if not with faithfulness, then with virtual gusto that leaves all other headphone offerings apoplectic. When under the influence of Mary Jane’s sweetest perfume, the HD800 even has the ability to transport me, molecule by molecule, to another plane of existence, where music and vision blend--or where music becomes an extra-sensory experience. (None of this is hyperbolic, I swear-- please, don’t flame me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) And I don’t think, imho, the HD800 could do this to me if they were “treble-happy” headphones (that would break the spell!). Heck, even a little extra mid-bass would most likely break the spell.
  
 And that’s right, folks, I've experienced all this ”on the cheap.” (Synergistic gear required of course.) Now, I hope to up my game a bit with the Valhalla 2; it should be here in a week!


----------



## JoelT

madmollusk said:


> And that’s right, folks, I've experienced all this ”on the cheap.” (Synergistic gear required of course.) Now, I hope to up my game a bit with the Valhalla 2; it should be here in a week!


 
 My Valhalla 2 comes in today...really looking forward to hearing it. We'll see if my fully upgraded WA7 ends up in the For Sale forum...should be interesting! I'm honestly hoping the Valhalla 2 & the Mjolnir (for the HD800 & LCD-2F respectively) are a better low budget amp solution.


----------



## purrin

mikemercer said:


> Thanks for the kind words Marv - seriously bro.
> Been a rough couple of weeks since CanMania at Capital Audio Fest (wifeys not doin so well and other family s__) - I know our styles and outlooks are different when it comes to writing/impressions/things like that - but I've always respected your approach, as you know.
> 
> I'm psyched you get where I'm coming from - the OLD SCHOOL way of Hp and _The Absolute Sound_ (how the gear is the vehicle to the MUSIC we love) - so it's about how that music touches me - and if the gear makes for a transparent conduit to the magic of the music - then BANG!!
> ...


 
  
 I know you get a lot a flack and some old fashioned ribbing, but keep on. Those who read you closely know what you are saying.


----------



## subtle

sherwood said:


> I have a feeling that you might disagree with me, given your username, but it's because of the value in objective rather than subjective goals.  Basically, we are here to consume music, not produce it.  Music is a finished product, it sounds the way it sounds, and it should be heard that way, too.
> 
> Music criticism has not evolved to the point where "artist intent" is no longer relevant -- in this field, we are trying to better connect with the song as it is presented to us.  An objectively superior transducer does that better, and makes us better listeners.  Inferior transducers used to produce a desired effect can be musical, but they're not really faithful, and that's what being an audiophile is about.  For many years, this has been a place for audiophile discussion, and I think it should remain as such.  Using different headphones for different music, to cover up hot recordings or emphasize bass on certain tracks, runs counter to the goals of a hobbyist audiophile because it deliberately alters the source. I have called the process of altering playback for different songs "sound effects" before, and I think that's a good word.  You're adding sound effects on top of the music when you, say, play songs in your car instead of on your reference gear because you don't like how they're recorded.
> 
> That is not to say that there is no place for discussion of sound effects, and I think Head-Fi in general is a great place for it, but not in Summit-Fi.  This area is broken off for a reason, because it is intended to discuss the pursuit of fidelity in music playback.  You ascend to the Summit to find the truth.  Otherwise, you could just stay in the valley.


 
  
 This is like poetry that I actually enjoyed reading, and I agree with every word of it.


----------



## Bartez75

Another specialist wearing HD800 opposite.
  
http://masaz.positiva.com.pl/opinie-o-masazach/
  
 In the description it is written that he is pleased by the massage (page about massage) and also that he is a music producer


----------



## skeptic

bigfatpaulie said:


> Seeing as she doesn't know which way to wear them, I don't think what she is using would matter to me...


 
  
 Seriously.  After listening to them with the channels reversed and drivers angled backwards, she probably went back to beats.


----------



## Canadian411

bartez75 said:


> Another specialist wearing HD800 opposite.
> 
> http://masaz.positiva.com.pl/opinie-o-masazach/
> 
> In the description it is written that he is pleased by the massage (page about massage) and also that he is a music producer


 
  
 Let me try when I get home.


----------



## James-uk

madmollusk said:


> You know, I never considered the HD800 bright even when using them with the Fiio E9. And when driven by even marginally synergistic gear (that’s all I've owned so far), the HD800 has happily demonstrated some transcendent abilities (in the context of headphone imaging and frequency-responsiveness).  It's the only headphone, for example, that draws me completely *into* the music. From time to time, I'm tempted to call the HD800's imaging/staging abilities holographic, but the more I think about it, the word "holographic" just doesn't cut it.
> 
> The HD800 takes imaging and staging to the next level; these amazing cans (to my humble ears) have the ability to re-create a musical venue or environment, if not with faithfulness, then with virtual gusto that leaves all other headphone offerings apoplectic. When under the influence of Mary Jane’s sweetest perfume, the HD800 even has the ability to transport me, molecule by molecule, to another plane of existence, where music and vision blend--or where music becomes an extra-sensory experience. (None of this is hyperbolic, I swear-- please, don’t flame me! :basshead: ) And I don’t think, imho, the HD800 could do this to me if they were “treble-happy” headphones (that would break the spell!). Heck, even a little extra mid-bass would most likely break the spell.
> 
> And that’s right, folks, I've experienced all this ”on the cheap.” (Synergistic gear required of course.) Now, I hope to up my game a bit with the Valhalla 2; it should be here in a week!




They really do have the ability to completely disappear and it feels like it's just you and the music. It's an amazing experience!


----------



## purrin

alrainbow said:


> Of course using the hd800 and the senn hvdvd800 as amp,only. I swear if one more person post these headphones are Brite I will hunt them down .
> 
> Al


 
  
 That combo not bright. I also know your music collection helps. You probably don't have anything marginally bright.


----------



## purrin

On "truth". Truth isn't absolute. Truth is relative, a personal view, and sometimes a moving target. People around the world kill each other because they think their truths are absolute. The search for truth starts innocently enough, until it hardens to the point where the seeker can not resist telling others that their old ways are wrong (or placebo), and decides to impose his way as "the one true way". As Voltaire? said: "Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it." What irony.
  
Personal truths, or audio goal such as "fidelity", "euphonic", "objectivist" can be further broken down into additional sub-goals which are shared among those main goals. Terms of as "fidelity" can be vague if they are not well defined. Who's to say that that one cannot find euphony, from high fidelity, which correlates with certain objective measurements? In terms of "fidelity", what aspects of fidelity does one prize over the other? Perceived resolution? Smooth frequency response? Tonal balance? Lack of compression? Natural timbre? (note even the term "natural" is a relative or personal truth.)
  
Personally, I don't give a rat's ass provided that one's audio goal(s) are understood - that readers know where a person is coming from. Indicating specific gear as references for aspects of sound such as "natural", "muffled", "analytic", "organic" goes a long way toward helping others understand and allowing them to calibrate their own sensibilities appropriately. It helps to go out there and actually meet with real people to get a sense of where the bell curve lies in terms of "bright vs. not bright" or "etched vs. blunted." It also helps to have owned or borrowed a large variety of amps and DACs; and trying combinations thereof specifically with the HD800.
  
Those who have PM'd me know that I sometimes make their purchasing decisions even more difficult, because rarely do I say "buy X gear because it is the best". I try to take my own goals out of the equation and see where people are coming from. I often ask, what do you use? What do you not like about it? Then I reply consider gear A, but be concerned about aspect H; however also consider gear B, but be aware of aspect J.
  
In terms of the HD800, a headphone which I have had a love and late relationship, my approach is how do we take an otherwise dry and bright sounding headphone with almost infinite scalability, and turn in into something more listenable, while still retaining its german toilet aspects (ability to reproduce low level information). And then it's a matter of trade offs. I understand why people like the WA2 or Leben with the HD800; but I feel the trade off in lost speed, resolution, attack is too much. Way too much. The GSX2 is on the lean and fast sounding side of the spectrum in the universe of amps, but these characteristics do nothing to ameliorate to HD800's dry and bright sounding nature. However, none of what I think matters if my own goals (preferences) are different from yours. But at least I've stated (or at least it should be fairly obvious by now), what my goals and references are so one can calibrate accordingly.
  
The conversation ends when one claims to speak "truth". 
  
Or hasn't heard (or for those "objectivists" measured) enough stuff to know the difference, e.g. "I've heard craptastic tube amp with HD800, therefore all tube amps suck" ; "tube amps sounds good because have artificially high levels of even harmonic distortion" (when they haven't measured any tube amps, or even worse, ignore actual measurements showing none such behavior); or amp X is totally transparent and wire-with-gain.


----------



## Mentis

So the next person who finds them too bright or lack of bass should check to see if they were wearing them the right way.....


----------



## purrin

Less bright if backwards.


----------



## James-uk

purrin said:


> On "truth". Truth isn't absolute. Truth is relative, a personal view, and sometimes a moving target. People around the world kill each other because they think their truths are absolute. The search for truth starts innocently enough, until it hardens to the point where the seeker can not resist telling others that their old ways are wrong (or placebo), and decides to impose his way as "the one true way". As Voltaire? said: "Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it." What irony.
> 
> Personal truths, or audio goal such as "fidelity", "euphonic", "objectivist" can be further broken down into additional sub-goals which are shared among those main goals. Terms of as "fidelity" can be vague if they are not well defined. Who's to say that that one cannot find euphony, from high fidelity, which correlates with certain objective measurements? In terms of "fidelity", what aspects of fidelity does one prize over the other? Perceived resolution? Smooth frequency response? Tonal balance? Lack of compression? Natural timbre? (note even the term "natural" is a relative or personal truth.)
> 
> ...




 'The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.' Some truths are just that. Facts are facts . Yes sound preference is subjective but trying to fix a headphone with a broken amp is stupid IMO .


----------



## purrin

Science requires you to run experiments, sometimes numerous times, before you can say anything definitive. BTW, I've actually measured some of the amps my my list. They all measure flat 20-20khz  and have a magnitude of distortion less than that which is inherent in the HD800. A few other people have measured the Vali. The Vali measurements are out there. It's probably the most measured (with different kinds of measurements) head amp of all time. The fact is, FR or distortion measurements based on FFT of sweeps are too limited to even describe the complexity of human hearing. We don't hear in the frequency domain from discrete cosine or fast fourier transforms of MLS "noise" or sweeps.
  
 If you are the subscriber of science you say you are, why don't you run larger scale tests (involving people more than yourself) noting subjective impressions and objective measurements of different amps with the HD800 and document in the results?
  
 No one else is claiming science, so they get a pass in this thread. I'm sure your findings will be better appreciated in the sound science forum as this conversation was over before it started.


----------



## Madmollusk

joelt said:


> My Valhalla 2 comes in today...really looking forward to hearing it. We'll see if my fully upgraded WA7 ends up in the For Sale forum...should be interesting! I'm honestly hoping the Valhalla 2 & the Mjolnir (for the HD800 & LCD-2F respectively) are a better low budget amp solution.


 
 Would you mind comparing and contrasting the WA7 and Valhalla 2 when your new Schiit arrives? I would love to know what you think.


----------



## frankrondaniel

madmollusk said:


> Would you mind comparing and contrasting the WA7 and Valhalla 2 when your new Schiit arrives? I would love to know what you think.


 
  
 Definitely interested in that comparison!


----------



## BournePerfect

I like Dan Brown's (DaVinci Code) quote about science vs religion: 'Science and religion are not at odds. Science is simply too young to understand.' I think the same could be applied to science vs the human auditory system.

-Daniel


----------



## purrin

Look, just say it once and move on. Do you really need to interject your objectivist leanings over and over again every 10th post? It obvious the tilt of this entire thread is very different from your own beliefs so why keep imposing your view? You disagree, that's fine. But why don't you leave us alone?


----------



## James-uk

purrin said:


> Look, just say it once and move on. Do you really need to interject your objectivist leanings over and over again every 10th post? It obvious the tilt of this entire thread is very different from your own beliefs so why keep imposing your view? You disagree, that's fine. But why don't you leave us alone?




I agree. I don't conform . I will keep out from now on.


----------



## JoelT

madmollusk said:


> Would you mind comparing and contrasting the WA7 and Valhalla 2 when your new Schiit arrives? I would love to know what you think.


 
 Absolutely. I'll need to give the Schiit some burn in time obviously, so it will be awhile before I can make any comments of substance. Also, I have the tubes fairly dialed in for the HD800 on the WA7, so it may be a bit lopsided in that aspect. I can compare the stock WA7 tube PSU tubes as well if that'd be desirable (I'm honestly not a fan of those tubes, but they represent the "default", for better or worse).


----------



## Madmollusk

joelt said:


> Absolutely. I'll need to give the Schiit some burn in time obviously, so it will be awhile before I can make any comments of substance. Also, I have the tubes fairly dialed in for the HD800 on the WA7, so it may be a bit lopsided in that aspect. I can compare the stock WA7 tube PSU tubes as well if that'd be desirable (I'm honestly not a fan of those tubes, but they represent the "default", for better or worse).


 
 Just to keep things fair, I suppose it's best to do the "stock" evaluation, but if, after a brief listen, you're tempted to call the Valhalla 2 a genuine over-performer, well please, don't handicap the WA7. I appreciate and look-forward to your forthcoming impressions.  Thanks in advance!


----------



## Dopaminer

Does anyone have a link to a good disassembly guide?  It looks pretty straightforward but I would like to to have a guide before I proceed. . 
  
 Thanks
  
 d


----------



## drdiem

dopaminer said:


> Does anyone have a link to a good disassembly guide?  It looks pretty straightforward but I would like to to have a guide before I proceed. .
> 
> Thanks
> 
> d


 
  
 It's a lot easier than you might fear. First thing is to pop off the back frame. I start near the angled piece that covers the area where the sockets are on the frame; just pull this directly away from where your head would be if you were wearing them. Once that's off, you'll see how the earpad folds around the main baffle - simply work around the edge of the pad (doesn't matter where you start) and roll it outwards - the earpads will pop off without a fight. Reassembly is the procedure in reverse.
  
 Note that there are some guides on these forums (with pics even) that don't tell you to take the rear frame off first. This'll work but you'll put more stress on the earpads so I'd recommend the method I describe above.


----------



## MacedonianHero

So some have said the GS-X Mk2 is lean/bright with the HD800s, and after hearing this combination against many others all I can say is definitely not how I hear it. I've had some very good amps over the years with the HD800s (WA2, WA22, LF) and heard many others (B22, Zana Deux, etc...) and the GS-X Mk2 gives the bass a kick with the best of them (but with better definition and control) and the treble is really smoothed out to my ears. As Asr's pointed out in his very thorough review, the GS-X is a very revealing amp of your upstream gear/music. So if you feed it with bright material, you'll get to hear it. If you're not a fan of the HD800s, the GS-X certainly won't "fix them". But I personally don't think they need to be "fixed".
  
 I've had many amps come and go and while I enjoyed them very much with the HD800s, (and except for Lyr and Concerto which I didn't like very much with the HD800s) the GS-X Mk2 is still here with zero plans of going anywhere.


----------



## 62ohm

macedonianhero said:


> So some have said the GS-X Mk2 is lean/bright with the HD800s, and after hearing this combination against many others all I can say is definitely not how I hear it. I've had some very good amps over the years with the HD800s (WA2, WA22, LF) and heard many others (B22, Zana Deux, etc...) and the GS-X Mk2 gives the bass a kick with the best of them (but with better definition and control) and the treble is really smoothed out to my ears. As Asr's pointed out in his very thorough review, the GS-X is a very revealing amp of your upstream gear/music. So if you feed it with bright material, you'll get to hear it. If you're not a fan of the HD800s, the GS-X certainly won't "fix them". But I personally don't think they need to be "fixed".
> 
> I've had many amps come and go and while I enjoyed them very much with the HD800s, (and except for Lyr and Concerto which I didn't like very much with the HD800s) the GS-X Mk2 is still here with zero plans of going anywhere.


 
  
 What do you think about the BHA-1 in comparison to the GS-X Mk.2?


----------



## MacedonianHero

62ohm said:


> What do you think about the BHA-1 in comparison to the GS-X Mk.2?


 
 For the $ (about 1/2), I thought the BHA-1 brought the goods. I really liked it. Very clean sounding, with just a bit more treble emphasis than I wanted. The GS-X seemed a bit smoother up top and the imaging was a bit more holographic, but the BHA-1 is a great amp in its own right. It was really good with the LCD-X/XCs as well. In the $1k ish price range for solid state amps, I really like both the BHA-1 and Solosit.


----------



## BournePerfect

macedonianhero said:


> So some have said the GS-X Mk2 is lean/bright with the HD800s, and after hearing this combination against many others all I can say is definitely not how I hear it. I've had some very good amps over the years with the HD800s (WA2, WA22, LF) and heard many others (B22, Zana Deux, etc...) and the GS-X Mk2 gives the bass a kick with the best of them (but with better definition and control) and the treble is really smoothed out to my ears. As Asr's pointed out in his very thorough review, the GS-X is a very revealing amp of your upstream gear/music. So if you feed it with bright material, you'll get to hear it. If you're not a fan of the HD800s, the GS-X certainly won't "fix them". But I personally don't think they need to be "fixed".
> 
> I've had many amps come and go and while I enjoyed them very much with the HD800s, (and except for Lyr and Concerto which I didn't like very much with the HD800s) the GS-X Mk2 is still here with zero plans of going anywhere.


 
  
 I gotta admit I like that you have an amp that satisfies you with the HD800s for years on end. Reminds me of niglesjames(sp?) always chiming in about his satisfaction with his NFB 27/Master 6 for a couple of years or so now. I was in the same boat with my ZDSE/DP1/ with the HD800 for a couple of years. There's something to be said about a rig that can curb the upgrade bug, especially w/ the Senns imo.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## MacedonianHero

bourneperfect said:


> I gotta admit I like that you have an amp that satisfies you with the HD800s for years on end. Reminds me of niglesjames(sp?) always chiming in about his satisfaction with his NFB 27/Master 6 for a couple of years or so now. I was in the same boat with my ZDSE/DP1/ with the HD800 for a couple of years. *There's something to be said about a rig that can curb the upgrade bug, especially w/ the Senns imo.*
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Agreed!


----------



## lovethatsound

alrainbow said:


> Yea lol. When people say it I say by a better dac or amp. The details in these headphones is just amazing.
> 
> Al


yes Al is right the hd800s are amazing just get a good dac like the chord hugo, a senn amp with their balance cable and sit back and enjoy.if you want 2 be in headphone heaven this is the way 2 do it.


----------



## listen4joy

i bet gsx mk2 preety good but EC-445 maybe put him in the corner (-:... will intresting to do wrap up beetween those two. purrin is the only one that hear them both and did comprasion so we cant really know only if we based our opinion on him and he as lot of respect in the forum.
 chhers purrin. when i will have the money no doubt i will go for EC-4-45 for audio nirvana


----------



## LugBug1

Sherwood's post-_ "I know this belief is widespread, but it has never made any sense to me.  I listen to a lot of clipped, closed-in, close-miked digital recordings, and I want them to sound exactly as they sound.  Sometimes the bad recording quality detracts from the music, in my eyes, but I can't fix that problem by glossing over it._
  
_I don't see the urge to hide the truth as being true to our purpose here.  We should strive for fidelity, friend, not euphony."_
  
  
 Quote:


silverears said:


> I agree with this.  People take that statement to oversimplification.  It's overused rationalization of HD800 not sounding well with high percentage of genres.


 
 OMG. SilverEars buddy  You have done nothing but complain and try to mask the 'the truth' since you got your HD800's.


----------



## MattTCG

lugbug1 said:


> OMG. SilverEars buddy  You have done nothing but complain and try to mask the 'the truth' since you got your HD800's.


 
  
 Agreed. I think I saw a comment that he got rid of them...not for certain.


----------



## pearljam50000

Is the stock HD800 cable, copper or silver?


----------



## MattTCG

Copper.


----------



## akhyar

^ I think I read somewhere that it's SPC


----------



## LugBug1

purrin said:


> Less bright if backwards.


 
 is the key word 


purrin said:


> On "truth". Truth isn't absolute. Truth is relative, a personal view, and sometimes a moving target. People around the world kill each other because they think their truths are absolute. The search for truth starts innocently enough, until it hardens to the point where the seeker can not resist telling others that their old ways are wrong (or placebo), and decides to impose his way as "the one true way". As Voltaire? said: "Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it." What irony.
> 
> Personal truths, or audio goal such as "fidelity", "euphonic", "objectivist" can be further broken down into additional sub-goals which are shared among those main goals. Terms of as "fidelity" can be vague if they are not well defined. Who's to say that that one cannot find euphony, from high fidelity, which correlates with certain objective measurements? In terms of "fidelity", what aspects of fidelity does one prize over the other? Perceived resolution? Smooth frequency response? Tonal balance? Lack of compression? Natural timbre? (note even the term "natural" is a relative or personal truth.)
> 
> ...


 
 I personally think it is silly to start philosophising words such as 'truth' when we are talking about SQ. We have to keep it relevant and realistic because the conversation will inevitably lose all of its original substance.   
  
 Obviously, when someone uses the term 'truth' in respect to an uncoloured sound - he means just that. 'But what is an uncolored sound'?? We all have our own ideas bla bla bla. Sorry, there has to be a cut off point so that we can keep some kind of sensibility involved if we are to retain any worthwhile substance to take from these conversations of our beloved hobby.
  
 I completely understand when someone says uncolored or colored or states that they want a more 'truthful' sound and Kant's categorical imperatives shouldn't come into it. We should all know that absolutism is never gonna fly in regards to headphone talk.
  
 Now when someone says, 'that amp blows that away' or 'dwarf's' that one- I will take literally  although how amps carry explosives as well as all the caps and transformers etc... And how an amp can shrink another..... Wuhowza!! 
  
  
 (sorry carry on


----------



## Madmollusk

Wow, as much as I love the Asgard 2 for almost all of my other headphones, it does the HD800 no justice whatsoever, which, admittedly, perplexes me. The Vali is a much _much_ better match for the HD800. Come Wednesday, however, my Valhalla2 will arrive, and I'm bristling with eagerness to test my new Schiit out!  No one here (thus far at least) has suggested tube-rolling options for the Val2. Frankly, I'm hopping that the stock tubes are a good, possibly great match for the HD800, thus sparing me the whole tube-rollers roller-coaster ride thing. (Yeah, I'm not a big fan of tube-rolling.)  But on the other hand,  if there are some must have tubes for the Val2 out there, well I might just have to overcome my reluctance and roll a few.


----------



## 62ohm

Not sure about the Valhalla 2, but I seem to recall that Jason doesn't encourage tube rolling for the Valhalla 1 as the amp is tuned specifically for the stock tubes. He said something about tube rolling may cost much more than the amp itself for an entry level tube amp, hence would not be a very good idea.


----------



## Madmollusk

62ohm said:


>


 
 This is good news, for me at least. Thanks for the info!


----------



## zerodeefex

listen4joy said:


> i bet gsx mk2 preety good but EC-445 maybe put him in the corner (-:... will intresting to do wrap up beetween those two. purrin is the only one that hear them both and did comprasion so we cant really know only if we based our opinion on him and he as lot of respect in the forum.
> chhers purrin. when i will have the money no doubt i will go for EC-4-45 for audio nirvana


 
  
 Well, I can say that both the balanced Dynahi I had and the Klone I have are better than the GSX MK2 based off of my time with it. 
  
 My 2A3 MKIV is another (big) step above both of those and Purrin's 445 is superior to the MKIV in all but raw power output for speakers.


----------



## Bellasperson

Well said. While there is science to the analytics of signals, the experience of sound has an inherent element of subjectivity.  The HD800 is good example.  Expressing a subjective experience adds another element of opinion distribution spread. HD800 as an example, I struggle to explain why I have trouble listening to them for long periods of time.  They are amazingly accurate but at the end of hour four I feel like they have grabbed my last nerve ending with a pair of vice grips. What set of words describes why this happens? Bright,  too much energy, etc.  None of that seems to capture the experience.  More like distracted by detail to the point of losing the whole point of listening. I have paired the HD800s with a WA2, WA3, Burson, Fostex HPA8, and Mjolinir.  The mix just never seemed quite right.  When I added a Cary SLP 05 between the Gungnir and the Mjolnir and got the tubes right in the SLP 05, that helped a lot. Somehow the 800s were never quite a enjoyable an the LCD3, particularly post Fazor. This is in spite of the fact that the LCD3s weigh a ton.  I am selling my HD800s because I just do not listen to them very much, though I ofter listen to them for a short while.   I will probably buy another pair later as my frustration dims and I miss the insight into what is on the disk that only they can provide.


----------



## kkcc

bellasperson said:


> When I added a Cary SLP 05 between the Gungnir and the Mjolnir and got the tubes right in the SLP 05, that helped a lot.




Imo Gungnir might not be the best DAC with HD800 for you and you can experiment with some other DACs.... and you are right, I also agree audio is inherently subjective.


----------



## BournePerfect

pearljam50000 said:


> Is the stock HD800 cable, copper or silver?




36awg silver plated copper.

-Daniel


----------



## screwdriver

Its interesting how a headphone like the hd800 can present a lot of listening scenario with both pleasant and not pleasant sound depending on a person's gear.


----------



## anetode

screwdriver said:


> Its interesting how a headphone like the hd800 can present a lot of listening scenario with both pleasant and not pleasant sound depending on a person's gear.


 

 And depending on the person's ear, the person's brain, the time of day and the flapping of butterfly wings halfway around the world.
  
 The HD800 is an acquired taste regardless of mods and gear changes. Just a really tasty one.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

screwdriver said:


> Its interesting how a headphone like the hd800 can present a lot of listening scenario with both pleasant and not pleasant sound depending on a person's gear.


Well a lot of people use coloured gear to compensate for flaws in their headphone. Someone might have revealing gear that shows the flaws of the headphone, while someone else might have a tube amp or warm, euphoric solid state that corrects every flaw the HD800 has. 

It has flaws just like every other headphone, a high price doesn't make it perfect. Then preference comes into play with what flaws/benefits you can live with compared to other headphones. Audio is a picky subject for people interested in gear.


----------



## LugBug1

I think the HD800 is the perfect glass for drinking wine. You either fill it with good or bad stuff... All subjective of course. Problem is, when we start to think we are connoisseurs because we've tried a couple of good bottles.  
  
 *hic*


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Or the 800 is like the expensive wine that people just don't understand why people pay that much for a bottle of good wine.


----------



## BournePerfect

toddthemetalgod said:


> Well a lot of people use coloured gear...




...while everyone else uses colored headphones.


----------



## Sorrodje

Interesting end of afternoon at home


----------



## BournePerfect

Nice-looks like you've moved past the NFB 12! 
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Sorrodje

@BournePerfect : Unfortunately the Electra/SR009 Combo has gone when its owner left my home an hour ago.


----------



## Eee Pee

So, Sorrodje, Sonett 2?  Like still?


----------



## Sorrodje

eee pee said:


> So, Sorrodje, Sonett 2?  Like still?


 
  
 Yes definitely. I think I'm done for a long time for my HD800 Rig . Yesterday , I listened music during 10 hours  from 14:00 pm to 1:00 am . And at 1:00 am I really didn't want to go to bed. I really wanted to listen to more music.  I don't think the Sonett 2 + Octave is the last word or a true end game rig but I definitely enjoy to listen to my music with what I have. It's time for me to continue to play with some other headphones or gear for reviewing purpose on my french web site but for my music enjoyment, I'm done.  The friend who came with its SR009/Electra rig tried seriously my HD800 rig and confirmed that the result is very good.


----------



## Eee Pee

sorrodje said:


> I definitely enjoy to listen to my music with what I have.


 
 Precisely.  That's what really matters, yeah?  Cheers.


----------



## Sorrodje

eee pee said:


> Precisely.  That's what really matters, yeah?  Cheers.


 
  
 Yep. But you know . Two years ago, I was extremely satisfied with My Porta Pro   . I could be very satisfied and pleased although what I hear was not so good.  That's why I like when some of my trusted friend give a listen to my Rig and express their opinion. Especially when they come with some good reference point as the SR009+Electra combo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  .
  
 It's easy to be wrong and happy alone on a desert island.


----------



## preproman

sorrodje said:


> Interesting end of afternoon at home


 
  
  
 So what did you think about the Electra / 009s?


----------



## RUMAY408

Anyone else on the thread using Amarra for computer audio?  Any thoughts on the EQ setting for HD800?


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

bourneperfect said:


> ...while everyone else uses colored headphones.


Everyone acts like enjoying a bit of colour in the sound is some mortal sin .


----------



## RUMAY408

toddthemetalgod said:


> Everyone acts like enjoying a bit of colour in the sound is some mortal sin
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm using the AQ Dragonfly as well
  
 Mac>AIFF(usually 24/96)>Amarra 3.02>AQ Dragonfly>ALO Audio MKlllB+>HD800


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

rumay408 said:


> I'm using the AQ Dragonfly as well
> 
> Mac>AIFF(usually 24/96)>Amarra 3.02>AQ Dragonfly>ALO Audio MKlllB+>HD800


I haven't tried it with the HD800 yet because mine are on order, but it certainly sounded good with my HE-400's and Paradigm Mini Monitors. How does it sound with the HD800? Is it too bright, and do you feel it images well enough?


----------



## RUMAY408

toddthemetalgod said:


> I haven't tried it with the HD800 yet because mine are on order, but it certainly sounded good with my HE-400's and Paradigm Mini Monitors. How does it sound with the HD800? Is it too bright, and do you feel it images well enough?


 
 Amarra is a warm music player, but the EQ has settings for LCD2 and LCD3, Grado GS1000, so far I'm finding the Nuforce HP800 and Rock setting are closer to what I'm looking for.  I have an OPPO BDP-105, definitely not portable, but it is better with lossless. 
  
 ToddThe MetalGod you will love the HD800


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

Delete


----------



## drdiem

bellasperson said:


> I struggle to explain why I have trouble listening to them for long periods of time.  They are amazingly accurate but at the end of hour four I feel like they have grabbed my last nerve ending with a pair of vice grips. What set of words describes why this happens? Bright,  too much energy, etc. None of that seems to capture the experience.  More like distracted by detail to the point of losing the whole point of listening.
> <snip>
> Somehow the 800s were never quite a enjoyable an the LCD3, particularly post Fazor. This is in spite of the fact that the LCD3s weigh a ton.  I am selling my HD800s because I just do not listen to them very much, though I ofter listen to them for a short while.   I will probably buy another pair later as my frustration dims and I miss the insight into what is on the disk that only they can provide.


 
  
 This ^
  
 Today I've spent 4 hours comparing my HD650 & HD800 against the LCD-3 and in the end I've had to admit that as stunning, revealing, analytical as the HD800 is, it's just too much of a good thing, at least for me. I'm Cypher; happier living inside the LCD-3's Matrix than in the HD800's real world. I've bought the LCD-3 and the two Senns are on sale as of now!
  
 Ian


----------



## BournePerfect

toddthemetalgod said:


> Everyone acts like enjoying a bit of colour in the sound is some mortal sin
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's just that everyone seems to be jumping on the 'HD800 needs fixing' bandwagon lately,and claiming it needs colored gear. In the meantime they're rocking the latest Audeze. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think we all want some coloration somewhere, whether we realize it or not. My ZDSE was somewhat colored-but otoh it's technicalities also wiped the floor with my Dynalo. Win-win!
  
 -Daniel


----------



## 62ohm

I'm pretty certain my HDVA600 colors the sound pretty extensively. The BHA-1 might be a better pick for an uncolored, transparent amp IMO.


----------



## lovethatsound

62ohm said:


> I'm pretty certain my HDVA600 colors the sound pretty extensively. The BHA-1 might be a better pick for an uncolored, transparent amp IMO.


your hdva600 will not colour the sound,it's been made 2 drive the hd800s probably . using this amp with the balance cable will give you the best results you're ever gonna get with the hd 800s.So really it's all down 2 the dac your using,the better the dac the better your hd 800s will sound.l use the hdvd800 which is the same amp as you, but with a built in dac, which I don't use.i use the chord hugo as the dac and could listen 2 it all day and all night like this . Just find the right dac for you.the hd800s are one of the best headphones you can get at the moment,they tell it as it is.


----------



## kothganesh

@purrin:
  
 I'm beginning to understand your statements on the Vali and the 800. I am running them through the Gungnir and I've clocked in about 8 hours (almost non-stop). The better the source recording, the resultant sound is sheer enjoyment. I was meaning to A/B/C/D the Vali with the Crack, project Ember and the ZDSE but after an hour, I said to heck with it. Its that good, the little amp.


----------



## pearljam50000

Is there enough bass, soundstage, and details with the Vali?


----------



## kothganesh

pearljam50000 said:


> Is there enough bass, soundstage, and details with the Vali?


 
 IMO, yes. The soundstage definitely. The bass hits really well. I know my hearing is not the sharpest but I would venture to say that the treble is a non-issue for me. Put another way, I don't wince when I'm listening. The ZDSE definitely is the better amp for the 800 but all I'm saying is that the Vali definitely punches above its weight and size.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

I couldn't do it. I got my Bifrost Uber in, and damn was I right about the stack looking adorable, cause it does. But after using it exclusively for a few days I switched back to the Gungnir cause I felt like it was missing something. And did a comparison, its not even a contest for me. The Gungnir just has this intensity that nothing else I've heard has. It's got balls, just grips the music like nothing else. From a technicalities standpoint though, I would say its slightly more detailed, along with considerably better bass articulation and it stages quite a bit better as well.
  
 Anyways, my Uber Bifrost is going back to get exchanged for a Gungnir, cute matching Schiit stack be damned...I can't let the Gungnir go.
  
 Just goes to show you you have to hear things for yourself. The Gungnir was the one piece of Schiit gear I was always avoiding due to the impressions on the internet, but after hearing it I fell in love. Though maybe it has something to do with the fact that I primarily listen to metal, where that intensity helps a lot. who knows...
  
 Plus the extra width of the Gungnir give me somewhere to put my headphone stand now, it can sit on top next to the Valhalla 2


----------



## Sorrodje

preproman said:


> So what did you think about the Electra / 009s?


 
  
 Not Impressive but so right.
  
 It's extremely fast with the most natural mids I've heard . Resolving but not more than HD800. Perfectly balanced or neutral to my tastes. not an ounce of brightness or harshness. The only thing I would miss with this SR009 is my HD800 Soundstage/image. SR009's one is bit too "classic" to my tastes. I prefer the HD800 or the Abyss on this point.
  
 What surprised me a lot it that the SR009 doesn't sound (to my ears) "Stax" . I heard a SR303 a few month ago and it offers a marvelous but very specific sound. SR009's is far more bodied and i was really surprised to hear something as close to my HD800. No "ethereal" sound . Maybe it's something I would understand with hour & hour of listening but during this discover I didn't feel a lack of anything.  Bass departement is at least on par with a well amplified HD800 , maybe even faster and well defined. During the first minutes, I travelled into my music library and was not so impressed ( Jazz, Classical, mainstream electro like daft punk RAM) I didn't hear something special vs my HD800. Then I tried vocal ( Andreas Scholl in Vivaldi Stabat Mater, Jazz singer like Diana Krall and Cecil McLorin Servant) and marvelous & full but perfectly right mids appeared. Then I tried some more refined &/or fast electronica ( BT : Binary Universe or the "Suddenly" Track of Hopeful machines) and the extreme fastness oh the SR009 impressed me.  I can resume it as a "fixed" HD800 ( fuller mids and less Harshness in the treble area) but with a less impressive way to image the music ( Abyss is King for that IMO but HD800 does it better than the SR009) . I think this average soundstage can be a dealbreaker for me . Depends on music. For Chamber music and voices I think SR009 is definitely the king more than the HD800/Abyss.  For modern instrumental Jazz & Orchestral works & downtempo/ambient/indie elecrronica I'd pick the HD800 because it hits harder and its imaging capabilities are better. for Pop/rock/mainstream electronica i'd go to Abyss who offers a spectacular way to present the music . But the Three headphones are all good all-rounders IMO.
  
 What impressed me is the fact that, coming from HD800, i felt "at home" with the SR009. I heard the subtle but real upgrade but undoubtly this two cans share a very close view about music reproduction. Take that with a grain of salt. We used the same dac and the Octave have a strong personality. Considering the level of transparency of both the HD800 & SR009, it could explains why I was not desoriented. The Abyss is a bit different. In other words HD800 & SR009 are not complementary . HD800 or SR009 and Abyss are. Hope you see what I mean. I don't say HD800=SR009 
  
 Considering my HD800 + Sonett costed me 1900€ and the SR009 + Electra+ tubes costs something like 8000€ maybe, I'm extremely happy with what I have for what I listen to despite the SR009 is undoubtly for my ear a better headphone in term of fidelity. It just plays the music so right.
  
 I'd really like to try a HE-6 now  . I've ever liked Hifimans ( except the HE-400 with its itchy treble) so I think I'd like the HE-6


----------



## pearljam50000

Thank kothganesh ,Can't wait to try this combo myself.


----------



## 62ohm

sorrodje said:


> preproman said:
> 
> 
> > So what did you think about the Electra / 009s?
> ...


 
  
 Nice impressions mate, it definitely made me appreciate my HD800 more


----------



## kothganesh

souprknowva said:


> I couldn't do it. I got my Bifrost Uber in, and damn was I right about the stack looking adorable, cause it does. But after using it exclusively for a few days I switched back to the Gungnir cause I felt like it was missing something. And did a comparison, its not even a contest for me. The Gungnir just has this intensity that nothing else I've heard has. It's got balls, just grips the music like nothing else. From a technicalities standpoint though, I would say its slightly more detailed, along with considerably better bass articulation and it stages quite a bit better as well.
> 
> Anyways, my Uber Bifrost is going back to get exchanged for a Gungnir, cute matching Schiit stack be damned...I can't let the Gungnir go.
> 
> ...


 
 Soup, I completely empathize with you. The Uberfrost is not doing it for me. I have it in my office set up and was using it to run the Vali. I brought the Vali home on Friday night and paired it with the Gungnir. Long story short, its been 13-14 hours with the Gungnir/Vali/HD 800 now.


----------



## pearljam50000

62ohm said:


> Nice impressions mate, it definitely made me appreciate my HD800 more



It's crazy that a 1500$ phone can sound almost as good as 5000$ phones (;


----------



## Sorrodje

pearljam50000 said:


> It's crazy that a 1500$ phone can sound almost as good as 5000$ phones (;


 
  
 It's not  crazy, it's audio.  Some even more expensive audio gear are less good than some 100$ gear. Prices don't tell the whole truth.
  
 All is in the "almost" . Don't forget it.  . I reviewed the Focal Spirit Pro & Classic a few weeks ago. Impressively good heaphones and thy sound almost as good as ah HD800.... I owned a HE-4 and really really liked it. it sounds almost as good as HD800. almost , almost . How many bucks worthes the "almost" for you ? only you can say it.  I'm sure inexperienced listeners wouldn't understand why we spend so much mone in so little differences.
  
 IMO the SR009 can definitely worth the difference of price. Depends of what you look for. it's definitely a "better" headphone than HD800 if your absolute purpose is to have the most transparent & accurate headphone. We're talking about absolute sound here. we are not acountants or grocers. we're in the summit-fi section.
  
 Understand me: I feel audio is a matter of personnal quest. I'll never adviced anyone to buy a HD800 or a SR009. everyone can enjoy music listening with far less expensive gear. I'll advice everytime a HD600 , or Focal Spirit Pro or some other relatively inexpensive headphones . They does not require to spend much money to sound good. Go higher in the audio ladder should stay a personal decision after listening extensively well regarded unexpensive gear and deciding if it's good enough... or not.
  
 Some of us would trade their kingdom for the slightest improvement.


----------



## preproman

souprknowva said:


> I couldn't do it. I got my Bifrost Uber in, and damn was I right about the stack looking adorable, cause it does. But after using it exclusively for a few days I switched back to the Gungnir cause I felt like it was missing something. And did a comparison, its not even a contest for me. The Gungnir just has this intensity that nothing else I've heard has. It's got balls, just grips the music like nothing else. From a technicalities standpoint though, I would say its slightly more detailed, along with considerably better bass articulation and it stages quite a bit better as well.
> 
> Anyways, my Uber Bifrost is going back to get exchanged for a Gungnir, cute matching Schiit stack be damned...I can't let the Gungnir go.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Why not go back to the MJ for the matching set?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

kothganesh said:


> Soup, I completely empathize with you. The Uberfrost is not doing it for me. I have it in my office set up and was using it to run the Vali. I brought the Vali home on Friday night and paired it with the Gungnir. Long story short, its been 13-14 hours with the Gungnir/Vali/HD 800 now.


 
  
 Haha I didn't dislike the Uber Bifrost, its good. Its just missing the magic that the Gungnir had, and unfortunately I heard the Gungnir first!
  


preproman said:


> Why not go back to the MJ for the matching set?


 
  
 Because from everything I've read the Mjolnir isn't as good with the HD800s as the Valhalla 2 is


----------



## Rossliew

Hmm...Gungnir or Hugo.. ?


----------



## kothganesh

souprknowva said:


> Haha I didn't dislike the Uber Bifrost, its good. Its just missing the magic that the Gungnir had, and unfortunately I heard the Gungnir first!
> 
> 
> *Because from everything I've read the Mjolnir isn't as good with the HD800s as the Valhalla 2 is*


 
 My experience as well. The Mojo is great with my Fostex and Audez'e HPs. The HD 800 sounds "shriller" than usual. Heck, the Vali is much better IMO with the 800.


----------



## kothganesh

kothganesh said:


> My experience as well. The Mojo is great with my Fostex and Audez'e HPs. The HD 800 sounds "shriller" than usual. Heck, the Vali is much better IMO with the 800.


 
 Oh , I don't want to be buying the Valhalla 2 now. I am experimenting with some stereo amps for all of my HPs excluding the stats. So keeping some powder dry.


----------



## kothganesh

rossliew said:


> Hmm...Gungnir or Hugo.. ?


 
 Ross, as a DAC only?


----------



## preproman

souprknowva said:


> Because from everything I've read the Mjolnir isn't as good with the HD800s as the Valhalla 2 is


 
  
 Thought the pair might give you that etch and slam that's good for metal  - no?


----------



## Rossliew

kothganesh said:


> Ross, as a DAC only?


 
 I believe you just helped me answer my own question LOL!
  
 Well, i am looking for a DAC first and foremost but the portability and versatility of the Hugo as an all-in one DAC/amp really interests me. Since I have an MJ, I am very keen to try a fully balanced set up and the Gungnir is one of the more affordable fully balanced DACs around. That said, the Hugo is really sweet sounding and I am thinking despite its single ended outputs, it is still able to swing a huge voltage output, negating the benefits of the 4V output of the Gungnir. Of course, the portability and built in amp really adds more plusses to it. 
  
 What say you, Ganesh?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

preproman said:


> Thought the pair might give you that etch and slam that's good for metal  - no?




Hmm, I don't think so, I want the technicalities offered by the Valhalla 2. Though I would obviously try the 800s with the mjolnir and gungnir if given the chance, I just won't be buying one to find out


----------



## kothganesh

rossliew said:


> I believe you just helped me answer my own question LOL!
> 
> Well, i am looking for a DAC first and foremost but the portability and versatility of the Hugo as an all-in one DAC/amp really interests me. Since I have an MJ, I am very keen to try a fully balanced set up and the Gungnir is one of the more affordable fully balanced DACs around. That said, the Hugo is really sweet sounding and I am thinking despite its single ended outputs, it is still able to swing a huge voltage output, negating the benefits of the 4V output of the Gungnir. Of course, the portability and built in amp really adds more plusses to it.
> 
> What say you, Ganesh?


 
 I've not heard the Hugo so cannot help you there. The Hugo has its admirers and detractors and both are passionate. Next, I'm more a desktop person. For the odd times that I do take the HPs out, I use the CLAS -dB as the DAC and the SR 71B as the amp. The CLAS is a very good DAC, IMO. My combo works out cheaper than the Hugo but you now have 3 devices to deal with for portability. 
  
 Last, I'm a fan of the Gungnir and cannot think of a better mate for the Mojo. Synergy is just very good, especially with your Audez'e HPs.


----------



## kothganesh

preproman said:


> Thought the pair might give you that etch and slam that's good for metal  - no?


 
 Prep,
  
 you've got me thinking. I'm going to give the G/M combo with the HD 800 one more extended try. I do have some Wywire HP cable for the 800 so let's see if I discern any difference (hopefully for the better).
  
 Thanks
  
 If it works out, the we may convince Soup to get the Mojo


----------



## preproman

kothganesh said:


> Prep,
> 
> you've got me thinking. I'm going to give the G/M combo with the HD 800 one more extended try. I do have some Wywire HP cable for the 800 so let's see if I discern any difference (hopefully for the better).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm mainly waiting for the Ragg / Ygg to see what the deal really is.


----------



## kothganesh

preproman said:


> I'm mainly waiting for the Ragg / Ygg to see what the deal really is.


 
 God, its been a while, hasn't it? Looks like closer to Halloween/Thanksgiving for that combo to be heard. Its my guess only and I don't want to start any controversy.


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> I'm mainly waiting for the Ragg / Ygg to see what the deal really is.


 
 +1 you hear any news on the Rag or Ygg since they closed down that thread?


----------



## Rossliew

kothganesh said:


> I've not heard the Hugo so cannot help you there. The Hugo has its admirers and detractors and both are passionate. Next, I'm more a desktop person. For the odd times that I do take the HPs out, I use the CLAS -dB as the DAC and the SR 71B as the amp. The CLAS is a very good DAC, IMO. My combo works out cheaper than the Hugo but you now have 3 devices to deal with for portability.
> 
> Last, I'm a fan of the Gungnir and cannot think of a better mate for the Mojo. Synergy is just very good, especially with your Audez'e HPs.


 
 I have the original CLAS as well and I must agree it is a damn fine piece of product! Although I am more of a desktop person, I was thinking of toting the Hugo around for office duties with my HTC phone. Makes a pretty good combo but of course there are other cheaper alternatives. I've sold the XC and have bought a used pair of HE-500 and loving every minute of it. Wonder if the MJ/Gung pairing will synergies with the 500. 
  
 On another note, I am keen to hear your impressions of the MJ/G pairing with the HD800


----------



## Moonhead

I had the MJ/G combo with both HE6 & HD800 and i was not to impressed with it.
I'm not sure if it's the amp or dac, but for me it sounded beyond neutral and very bright fatiguing in the treble. 
It does not have enough power for he6 and give me tinnitus with a very annoying unnatural treble, but that particular Hifiman just doesn't sound natural in the highs, IMO.
Making the HD800 way to bright too, I can imagine it would be a good match with Audeze lineup.


----------



## kothganesh

moonhead said:


> I had the MJ/G combo with both HE6 & HD800 and i was not to impressed with it.
> I'm not sure if it's the amp or dac, but for me it sounded beyond neutral and very bright fatiguing in the treble.
> It does not have enough power for he6 and give me tinnitus with a very annoying unnatural treble, but that particular Hifiman just doesn't sound natural in the highs, IMO.
> Making the HD800 way to bright too, I can imagine it would be a good match with Audeze lineup.


 
 Its been my experience as well. The G/M stack worked very well with the HE 500. I had the jergpads on them and it was even better.


----------



## BournePerfect

x3

The MJ/Gungnir/HD800 rig was the most offensive I've ever heard the Senns, and the Gungnir was the prime culprit.

Soup: Are you running the gungnir with the v2 board? Supposedly that's a decent improvement over what I heard. I also suspect that the Valhalla 2 is helping the aggressive highs a bit, whereas the MJ didn't do them any favors. My .02.

-Daniel

edit: Come to think of it, I don't think my Gungnir had usb iirc. Just ran it via coax mainly.


----------



## paradoxper

Yup. An aggressive pairing that gave the HD800 a real kick in the pants. I admit I somewhat enjoyed that pairing.
 Somehow much more than even the M51 and Mjolnir. I guess kind of quirky.


----------



## Canadian411

kothganesh said:


> I've not heard the Hugo so cannot help you there. The Hugo has its admirers and detractors and both are passionate. Next, I'm more a desktop person. For the odd times that I do take the HPs out, I use the CLAS -dB as the DAC and the SR 71B as the amp. The CLAS is a very good DAC, IMO. My combo works out cheaper than the Hugo but you now have 3 devices to deal with for portability.
> 
> Last, I'm a fan of the Gungnir and cannot think of a better mate for the Mojo. Synergy is just very good, especially with your Audez'e HPs.




My experience was very diff than yours.
I had the full.balance setup clas -db to sr71b, nothing was really impressive.

Never liked sr71b sounding and clas db couldn't compete with my old burson ha160ds. (Almost the same price for both) Portable rigs are really not in the same league as the desktop setup imo.

I was thinking of giving another shoot at portable but the look of hugo completely turned me off. I just don't understand the color coding of hugo instead of actual "more" intuitive display. 

I guess I will hold spending until better dacs come out. 

Peace.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

bourneperfect said:


> x3
> 
> The MJ/Gungnir/HD800 rig was the most offensive I've ever heard the Senns, and the Gungnir was the prime culprit.
> 
> ...




Yeah it has the v2 USB board. So does my Bifrost.


----------



## skeptic

lovethatsound said:


> your hdva600 will not colour the sound,it's been made 2 drive the hd800s probably . using this amp with the balance cable will give you the best results you're ever gonna get with the hd 800s.So really it's all down 2 the dac your using,the better the dac the better your hd 800s will sound.l use the hdvd800 which is the same amp as you, but with a built in dac, which I don't use.i use the chord hugo as the dac and could listen 2 it all day and all night like this . Just find the right dac for you.the hd800s are one of the best headphones you can get at the moment,they tell it as it is.




Not exactly true. As discussed at length in this thread a couple weeks back, the Senn amps have an output impedance of 40 ohms, which does boost the hd800s bass. Purrin posted some very cool graphs documenting this effect a while ago using several different impedance adapters to show the impact on FR. With push pull and dual mono amps, running balanced doubles that output impedance and the resulting bass boost. I'm not suggesting that there is any objective good or bad in this, but it is definitely coloring the sound.


----------



## lovethatsound

skeptic said:


> Not exactly true. As discussed at length in this thread a couple weeks back, the Senn amps have an output impedance of 40 ohms, which does boost the hd800s bass. Purrin posted some very cool graphs documenting this effect a while ago using several different impedance adapters to show the impact on FR. With push pull and dual mono amps, running balanced doubles that output impedance and the resulting bass boost. I'm not suggesting that there is any objective good or bad in this, but it is definitely coloring the sound.


well it's not coloring is it, because that's how the hd800s are supposed 2 sound, that's why senn made the amps so you could hear the hd800s how they should be heard.And they got it right.


----------



## skeptic

lovethatsound said:


> well it's not coloring is it, because that's how the hd800s are supposed 2 sound, that's why senn made the amps so you could hear the hd800s how they should be heard.And they got it right.




The headphones predated the amps, and Senn never suggested that they were intended for a high output impedance. In fact, Senn used to demo them at shows with stuff like the dac1, that has a 1 ohm output. 

After several years of fairly prevalent complaints on the net that a lot of people found them too bright with SS gear, Senn released its own high output impedance SS amp, causing a boosted bass response. If that's not coloring them, what precisely would you call it?


----------



## koiloco

lovethatsound said:


> well it's not coloring is it, because that's how the hd800s are supposed 2 sound, that's why senn made the amps so you could hear the hd800s how they should be heard.And they got it right.


 
 One of the funnier things I've read in this thread.


----------



## koiloco

skeptic said:


> The headphones predated the amps, and Senn never suggested that they were intended for a high output impedance. In fact, Senn used to demo them at shows with stuff like the dac1, that has a 1 ohm output.
> 
> After several years of fairly prevalent complaints on the net that a lot of people found them too bright with SS gear, Senn released its own high output impedance SS amp, causing a boosted bass response. If that's not coloring them, what precisely would you call it?


 
 +1.


----------



## 62ohm

lovethatsound said:


> skeptic said:
> 
> 
> > Not exactly true. As discussed at length in this thread a couple weeks back, the Senn amps have an output impedance of 40 ohms, which does boost the hd800s bass. Purrin posted some very cool graphs documenting this effect a while ago using several different impedance adapters to show the impact on FR. With push pull and dual mono amps, running balanced doubles that output impedance and the resulting bass boost. I'm not suggesting that there is any objective good or bad in this, but it is definitely coloring the sound.
> ...


 
  
 IMO the Senn amp doesn't make the HD800s sound "the way it's supposed to sound" as skeptic said, the headphone predates the amp. The only way you can state an amp makes a headphone the way it's supposed to sound is if the amp predates the headphone, and the headphone were voiced using that amp. In this case, I think I read somewhere that Sennheiser used the Lehmann BCL to voice the HD800.
  
 I know this makes little sense, but IMO from my hearing, the Senn amp is a heavily colored amp. I'm not saying that its bad, in fact I'm enjoying it a lot. But it is exactly why I'm looking forward to get another amp such as the BHA-1, which IMO is one of the "budget high-end" amp with the least coloration.


----------



## lovethatsound

At the end of the hd800s sound great with a senn amp.The senn amp was made 2 drive the hd 800s as they should be driven,how senn intended you 2 hear them . It's just a case of finding the right dac.


----------



## PleasantSounds

lovethatsound said:


> At the end of the hd800s sound great with a senn amp.The senn amp was made 2 drive the hd 800s as they should be driven,how senn intended you 2 hear them . It's just a case of finding the right dac.


 
  
 HDVD800 does contain a DAC. Would you say it's the reference level intended by Sennheiser? Following your logic, it should be. Why would they create the "perfect" amp and not the DAC?


----------



## lovethatsound

pleasantsounds said:


> HDVD800 does contain a DAC. Would you say it's the reference level intended by Sennheiser? Following your logic, it should be. Why would they create the "perfect" amp and not the DAC?


The Dac was put in the hdvd800 just 4 the market place at the TIME . IT'S just an ok dac.If they had put a really good dac in the hdvd would have cost about £3000.And I suppose senn wouldn't have sold as many.But whatever you think the senn amps are made 2 drive the hd800s as senn intended you 2 hear them. Ask senn if don't believe me.


----------



## lin0003

Obviously Senn would say that their amp is the best so they can sell stuff.


----------



## 62ohm

lin0003 said:


> Obviously Senn would say that their amp is the best so they can sell stuff.


 
  
 This. Go to Burger King or McDonald's and ask either one which fastfood restaurant sells the best burger, and each one of them would claim that they are better. I also have the Senn amp, and I love it. But it would be naive to suggest that its the absolute best amp for the HD800..
  
 I say this because even compared to amps in the same price range like the BHA-1, the Senn amp trades pros & cons. Each one have their own advantages and disadvantages, so it's not an absolute win for the Senn amp (to this date, I still have dreams about the BHA-1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## PleasantSounds

lovethatsound said:


> The Dac was put in the hdvd800 just 4 the market place at the TIME . IT'S just an ok dac.If they had put a really good dac in the hdvd would have cost about £3000.And I suppose senn wouldn't have sold as many.But whatever you think the senn amps are made 2 drive the hd800s as senn intended you 2 hear them. Ask senn if don't believe me.


 
  
 Oh, so the commercial reality applies to the DAC, but not to the Amp....
 And the "just ok DAC" is worth the $500 difference in price...
 Thanks.... all is clear now....


----------



## Caguioa

hello guys, i plan on buying hd800 but idk what kind of amp i should get, is there cheap, also if portable thats a plus one that i can bring out full potential?
  
 i plan to use it for gaming/movies/music 
 and can it be used for basically consoles also? if so has anybody done it before?


----------



## lin0003

There is no great cheap amp, but the Vali and M-stage are pretty good.


----------



## MattTCG

caguioa said:


> hello guys, i plan on buying hd800 but idk what kind of amp i should get, is there cheap, also if portable thats a plus one that i can bring out full potential?
> 
> i plan to use it for gaming/movies/music
> and can it be used for basically consoles also? if so has anybody done it before?


 
 Best cheaper amp that I've paired with the 800 is the Valhalla 2...not portable. The Vali is decent and cheaper but also not portable.


----------



## myc

caguioa said:


> hello guys, i plan on buying hd800 but idk what kind of amp i should get, is there cheap, also if portable thats a plus one that i can bring out full potential?
> 
> i plan to use it for gaming/movies/music
> and can it be used for basically consoles also? if so has anybody done it before?


 
 Try superlux ha-3d (around less than 200 USD)
  
 It can drive HD800 very properly at less than 9 o'clock (volume), even if you're only using battery for portable use
  
 It gives very enjoyable sound. I skipped the amp of fostex a8c, only using its amazing DAC and the sound is more full bodied, rounded and weighted (may be the same as tube amp effect?)


----------



## mikemercer

purrin said:


> I know you get a lot a flack and some old fashioned ribbing, but keep on. Those who read you closely know what you are saying.


 
 ThanX bro.
 I really needed to hear that today.
  
 Big UPS man.
  
 It's been a really bad morning!
 Thankfully submitted a review into PFO before things went south, but...
 Well, its always something right??
  
 WE had to put our oldest pet down yesterday.
 I ended up in as LONG listening sesh - w/ my Studio Six and HD800s!


----------



## Moonhead

Just get a Questyle CMA800R and be done with it, end game.


----------



## Canadian411

moonhead said:


> Just get a Questyle CMA800R and be done with it, end game.


 
 u mean 2 of CMA800R. ?


----------



## Moonhead

Did I say 2, thats just to show off 
You Only need one and hd800 sounds stunning with Questyle.


----------



## Twangsta

mikemercer said:


> ThanX bro.
> I really needed to hear that today.
> 
> Big UPS man.
> ...


 
 Sorry to hear about your loss.
  
 I don't know what that tube amp is but I love it, EL84? I've always tempted to get another dr.z carmen ghia for a hifi stereo rig.


----------



## Maxvla

ALO Studio Six


----------



## reddog

mikemercer said:


> ThanX bro.
> I really needed to hear that today.
> 
> Big UPS man.
> ...



Sorry to hear about your pet sir. My heart goes out to you and I hope you feel better soon.


----------



## ytfmichaelxu

Hi. Everyone, I've had the HD800 for over a week now. I like how they sound overall, except the treble can be a little harsh on certain tracks. One thing that puzzles me is that everyone keeps talking about how the HD800 sounds more speaker like than other headphones, like how they have a wide soundstage and the music sounds like it's coming from afar.
  
 I HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED THIS AT ALL with the HD800, or any other headphones for that matter. I am powering them with the Mayflower Objective 2 O2 DAC/amp. Is this amp the problem? I don't understand, I have plenty of Flac files of pop, rock, vocal, trance, acoustic, classical music. All of these which sound like they are coming from next to my ears. Sure the music sounds "airy", but I know I would recognize that all the music comes from right next to my ears, even if someone hit me on the head with a baseball bat and I was drunk. Why doesn't the soundstage effect work for me?Please help.


----------



## RUMAY408

maxvla said:


> ALO Studio Six


 
 Thats one very fine amp, for me it is a matter of how far to go (cost) being a factor.  
  
 I'm using the ALO Audio MKlllB+ for portable and the Meier Classic for the desk.
  
 One of these days I can see a bigger badder amp as the HD800 scales, it's just a matter of dropping 5-10K that's all.


----------



## anetode

ytfmichaelxu said:


> Hi. Everyone, I've had the HD800 for over a week now. I like how they sound overall, except the treble can be a little harsh on certain tracks. One thing that puzzles me is that everyone keeps talking about how the HD800 sounds more speaker like than other headphones, like how they have a wide soundstage and the music sounds like it's coming from afar.
> 
> I HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED THIS AT ALL with the HD800, or any other headphones for that matter. I am powering them with the Mayflower Objective 2 O2 DAC/amp. Is this amp the problem? I don't understand, I have plenty of Flac files of pop, rock, vocal, trance, acoustic, classical music. All of these which sound like they are coming from next to my ears. Sure the music sounds "airy", but I know I would recognize that all the music comes from right next to my ears, even if someone hit me on the head with a baseball bat and I was drunk. Why doesn't the soundstage effect work for me?Please help.


 

 The soundstage you're experiencing is often referred to as "headstage" - headphones have physical limitations and you're simply not going to get the sort of localization that you get with speakers. With the HD800 what you'll get is a greater diffusivity in comparison to other headphones, a sort of greater headstage. Maybe that's what you're referring to when you say that it sounds "airy".


----------



## ytfmichaelxu

anetode said:


> The soundstage you're experiencing is often referred to as "headstage" - headphones have physical limitations and you're simply not going to get the sort of localization that you get with speakers. With the HD800 what you'll get is a greater diffusivity in comparison to other headphones, a sort of greater headstage. Maybe that's what you're referring to when you say that it sounds "airy".


 
 lol. What the hell then, It is nowhere near as impressive as everyone made it out to be. Some even went as far as to say that they can point to where the sounds of specific instruments comes from. What a crock of nonsense. Thx for the reply though.


----------



## MacedonianHero

ytfmichaelxu said:


> lol. What the hell then, It is nowhere near as impressive as everyone made it out to be. Some even went as far as to say that they can point to where the sounds of specific instruments comes from. What a crock of nonsense. Thx for the reply though.


 
 Yeah, I'd stick with the Beats...they really rock!


----------



## anetode

ytfmichaelxu said:


> lol. What the hell then, It is nowhere near as impressive as everyone made it out to be. Some even went as far as to say that they can point to where the sounds of specific instruments comes from. What a crock of nonsense. Thx for the reply though.


 

 If you practice critical listening then you can still discern the layering, space between instruments, lateralization and even verticality in recordings. Find a minimally mic'd recording of acoustic music, or any competent binaural recording, close your eyes and listen carefully. It's there if you look for it.


----------



## ytfmichaelxu

Do you hav


anetode said:


> If you practice critical listening then you can still discern the layering, space between instruments, lateralization and even verticality in recordings. Find a minimally mic'd recording of acoustic music, or any competent binaural recording, close your eyes and listen carefully. It's there if you look for it.


 
 Would you have any tracks to recommend? I pay very close attention when I listen to music, I can discern the separation of different instruments when listening to classical, the space between instruments however.... As for binaural recordings, you can locate sounds with any half competent headphones, so that wouldn't set the HD800 apart. There are certain parts of some tracks that fooled me into thinking the sound is coming from outside of the headphones, however, only certain part of certain tracks.


----------



## ytfmichaelxu

macedonianhero said:


> Yeah, I'd stick with the Beats...they really rock!


 
 facetious jon snow, I may not be as audio savvy as most, but I do have certain standards.


----------



## anetode

ytfmichaelxu said:


> Do you hav
> Would you have any tracks to recommend? I pay very close attention when I listen to music, I can discern the separation of different instruments when listening to classical, the space between instruments however.... As for binaural recordings, you can locate sounds with any half competent headphones, so that wouldn't set the HD800 apart. There are certain parts of some tracks that fooled me into thinking the sound is coming from outside of the headphones, however, only certain part of certain tracks.


 
  
 There's kind of a cheesy but enthralling "space age" 60s track I like to use - Esquivel's "Brazil" from _See It in Sound_. I like to sit back and let my ears do the watching and observe the distinct (artificial) environs.
  
 For something a little more natural there's Bill Evans' _Waltz for Debby_. Same approach, just spread over an hour spent in a chill jazz club.
  
 Alternately find a good recording of your favorite classical piece. I like to sit back and absorb Wagner's _Tristan und Isolde_ for such purposes.


----------



## MacedonianHero

ytfmichaelxu said:


> I may not be as audio savvy as most, but I do have certain
> 
> Didn't you hear that the Beats were happening?
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/time-rethink-beats-solo2-excellent


----------



## MacedonianHero

ytfmichaelxu said:


> facetious jon snow, I may not be as audio savvy as most, but I do have certain standards.




Didn't you hear the Beats were happening?

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/time-rethink-beats-solo2-excellent


----------



## ytfmichaelxu

macedonianhero said:


> Didn't you hear the Beats were happening?
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/time-rethink-beats-solo2-excellent


 
 Whoa! never would have thought the beats line would start to make quality products.


----------



## BournePerfect

ytfmichaelxu said:


> Hi. Everyone, I've had the HD800 for over a week now. I like how they sound overall, except the treble can be a little harsh on certain tracks. One thing that puzzles me is that everyone keeps talking about how the HD800 sounds more speaker like than other headphones, like how they have a wide soundstage and the music sounds like it's coming from afar.
> 
> I HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED THIS AT ALL with the HD800, or any other headphones for that matter. I am powering them with the Mayflower Objective 2 O2 DAC/amp. Is this amp the problem? I don't understand, I have plenty of Flac files of pop, rock, vocal, trance, acoustic, classical music. All of these which sound like they are coming from next to my ears. Sure the music sounds "airy", but I know I would recognize that all the music comes from right next to my ears, even if someone hit me on the head with a baseball bat and I was drunk. Why doesn't the soundstage effect work for me?Please help.


 
  
 So you're running your $1500 headphone out of a hundred dollar amp, and wonder why you're not getting better results?
  
 Gotcha.


----------



## Maxvla

It's not so much the $100 amp, but which $100 amp. Tack on $20 and get a Vali instead.


----------



## Cankin

ytfmichaelxu said:


> Hi. Everyone, I've had the HD800 for over a week now. I like how they sound overall, except the treble can be a little harsh on certain tracks. One thing that puzzles me is that everyone keeps talking about how the HD800 sounds more speaker like than other headphones, like how they have a wide soundstage and the music sounds like it's coming from afar.
> 
> I HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED THIS AT ALL with the HD800, or any other headphones for that matter. I am powering them with the Mayflower Objective 2 O2 DAC/amp. Is this amp the problem? I don't understand, I have plenty of Flac files of pop, rock, vocal, trance, acoustic, classical music. All of these which sound like they are coming from next to my ears. Sure the music sounds "airy", but I know I would recognize that all the music comes from right next to my ears, even if someone hit me on the head with a baseball bat and I was drunk. Why doesn't the soundstage effect work for me?Please help.


 
  
 The fact is, HD800 sounds more speaker like than other headphones but it is still a pair of headphone.
  
 Your amp is not the problem.


----------



## Sorrodje

cankin said:


> The fact is, HD800 sounds more speaker like than other headphones but it is still a pair of headphone.
> 
> Your amp is not the problem.


 
  
  
 This.
  
 That  been said, the imaging capabilities of the HD800 improve a lot with better amps IME. Soundstage becames more cohesive ( lest left/right) & more holographic.  The Beyerdynamic T1 offers a very very good soundstage too but more "headphone like" . very precise pinpoint imaging , very layered but nothing like the holographic presentation of a well amplified HD800.
  
 But, one more time, claiming the HD800 offers a speaker like soundstage is Marketing BS. To have a Speaker soundstage , go to speakers.
  li
 The closes headphones I heard who offer "speaker like" soundstage are the K1000 and The abyss and ever a Stax SR303. the three are more earspeakers that headphones IMO . the AByss is somewhere in between and it the best imaging "headphone/earspeakers" I heard to date but its close to the HD800 and  doesn"t offer the same experience than speakers. 
  
 I hadn't said Speaker presentation is better though.  IMO Speakers and heaphones  are hard to compare because they're very different.  both are extremely enjoyable.


----------



## BournePerfect

maxvla said:


> It's not so much the $100 amp, but which $100 amp. Tack on $20 and get a Vali instead.




True, but the Vali is hardly the last word in soundstage and imaging-though at it's pricepoint it sure is. Ime, soundstaging is one of the easiest things to notice with higher end gear imo. 

-Daniel


----------



## hekeli

Only gear that will change headstage dramatically is Realiser. Yadda yadda amps and dacs are subtle improvements compared to that, yeah you can get some more "airyness" and sense of space but it's still between your ears.
  
 There's always some crossfeed dsp etc if you want some cheap front projection.
  
 But yeah I haven't heard anything nearly as holographic as HD800 so far.. sometimes it feels like I'm floating inside the music..


----------



## BournePerfect

Nope.


----------



## Sorrodje

bourneperfect said:


> Nope.


 
  
 Where's the question ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 hekeli : yeah subtles improvements with amps but real in my opinion. As bourneperfect said, I think that better soundstage and imaging is the first point I notice with great amps especially tube ones.
  


hekeli said:


> But yeah I haven't heard anything nearly as holographic as HD800 so far.. sometimes it feels like I'm floating inside the music..


 
  
 Ohhhh yeaaaaah. that's real HD800 for sure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Give a try to an Abyss if you have an opportunity. it's even better.


----------



## Twangsta

cankin said:


> The fact is, HD800 sounds more speaker like than other headphones but it is still a pair of headphone.
> 
> Your amp is not the problem.




True, your average near field monitor will give you a way better sound stage, in my case my humble KRK 5s though their lower mids are a bit emphasised. Great for a pleasurable listen but if you want that treble sweet spot you got to sit still in position. That's where the 800s come in, it's like removing a veil but it's resolution is the best I've heard. 

My Lehmann BCL just arrived yesterday. I'm in the honey moon phase I suppose. I did manage to put in a good few hours with the pair. This BCL is previously owned, well broken in but in pristine condition. I let it warm up before listening, got to say It really warmed up the 800s considerably, goes to show my apollo twin HP amp sounds hollow in comparison. I'm being schooled here and I can see a hifi DAC in my near future. The pro audio gear is very analytical. I'm beginning to understand what you all are on about!

This amp is many things...the reviews I read about are pretty accurate. Smooth without harshness, warm creamy lower mids, excellent transient attack, wider and accurate soundstage and impressive layering at all frequencies. This in comparison to my UA interface's HP out. I'm happy, thrilled really since I got the BCL at good value. 

I'm currently using A+ up-sampling to 24/192 on various resolution media. My dad loved the set up, bobbing his head to classical which I've never seen him do!


----------



## Moonhead

Studio monitors are the only speakers that can perform on the same level as High-end Headphones. 
  
 KRK are sentiently very coloured and fare from the better active speakers, to much bass response. 
 Yamaha HS8 on the other hand is a whole different speakers on a whole different level and the natural balance is very much similarly to HD800. 
 IMO the best speakers money can buy and the best part, anyone can afford them.


----------



## magiccabbage

moonhead said:


> Studio monitors are the only speakers that can perform on the same level as High-end Headphones.


 
 Nonsense!


----------



## Madmollusk

ytfmichaelxu said:


> Hi. Everyone, I've had the HD800 for over a week now. I like how they sound overall, except the treble can be a little harsh on certain tracks. One thing that puzzles me is that everyone keeps talking about how the HD800 sounds more speaker like than other headphones, like how they have a wide soundstage and the music sounds like it's coming from afar.
> 
> I HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED THIS AT ALL with the HD800, or any other headphones for that matter. I am powering them with the Mayflower Objective 2 O2 DAC/amp. Is this amp the problem? I don't understand, I have plenty of Flac files of pop, rock, vocal, trance, acoustic, classical music. All of these which sound like they are coming from next to my ears. Sure the music sounds "airy", but I know I would recognize that all the music comes from right next to my ears, even if someone hit me on the head with a baseball bat and I was drunk. Why doesn't the soundstage effect work for me?Please help.


 
 First of all, speakers and headphones are intrinsically different and you should temper your expectations accordingly. With even the best speakers, in a stereo orientation, of course (i don't care for that surround-sound crap, but that's just me), the sound-stage is typically circumscribed to one quadrant of the room and spread out with all the glorious depth of a performance on a stage. This has been my experience at least. 
  
 Now, the HD 800 (it’s a headphone after all) will create a much more immersive but  personal sound-stage, placing you (the happy listener) more* in* the mix, so to speak; after you adjust to the more localized head-space effect, you’ll begin to hear just how involving this experience can be. But you do have to shrink your expectations a bit, at least regarding soundstage size. 
  
 To help yourself acclimate to the HD800, get into a relaxed state of mind and listen to music in a dimly lit room, and do this every evening for a few weeks, and I suspect you’ll being to hear the magic.


----------



## kazsud

+..........+


----------



## koiloco

magiccabbage said:


> Nonsense!


 

 +1


----------



## wink

Let's just face the fact that some people can't hear a soundstage with headphones.


----------



## Moonhead

Very obvious you boys haven't heard a good active speaker.
But I'm not surprise by your childish answer, you are probably into valves and snake oil too


----------



## bigfatpaulie

moonhead said:


> Very obvious you boys haven't heard a good active speaker.
> But I'm not surprise by your childish answer, you are probably into valves and snake oil too


 
  
 I don't really understand your comment (I can be a bit slow):
  
 "Studio monitors are the only speakers that can perform on the same level as High-end Headphones."
  
 Are you saying that studio monitors are the most similar sounding speakers or that studio monitors are the only types of speakers that are good enough to stack up high-end headphones ...  or?  Just look for clarity.


----------



## Zoom25

I'm also in the active monitors camp as they are usually better priced in performance compared to a lot of hi-fi grade speakers. There are definitely great hi-fi speakers available, but you won't always find them priced accordingly. For TOTL stuff, I'd take the powered ATC SCMXXX over majority of the hi-fi speakers, especially at their price.
  
 I love the KEF sound in general. Their REF line is great - R900 and you're set. Now PSB on other hand is utter crap to me. I hated their flagship stuff, especially at their price.
  
 Wouldn't go as far as saying that studio monitors are the ONLY thing out there to beat HD800 or every speakers, although would say that mid level/ high end monitors would be the preference for me over HD800, if I had the freedom to listen to either. I just love the simplicity and hassle free approach of active monitors. No need to worry about amplifier synergy.
  
 Bottom line: With monitors, you get more for what you pay (Majority of the times)


----------



## Moonhead

Studio monitors are the ONLY speakers that give you the same clean sound and details that match a good high-end can.
Passive speakers are crap and a waste of money, they don't come close to giving you details as a good active or a good high-end can. 

Only once I listen to a speaker that reminded me of HD800 and is was Yamaha HS8.
One of the best active speakers that you see in almost every studio out there, but people don't 
Believe it because they don't cost a fortune as those big ugly passive speakers that the hifi community try to trick you to buy, by marketing schemes.


----------



## Twangsta

moonhead said:


> Studio monitors are the only speakers that can perform on the same level as High-end Headphones.
> 
> KRK are sentiently very coloured and fare from the better active speakers, to much bass response.
> Yamaha HS8 on the other hand is a whole different speakers on a whole different level and the natural balance is very much similarly to HD800.
> IMO the best speakers money can buy and the best part, anyone can afford them.




Not sure about your first point, if your talking about sound stage then stereo loud speakers and phones have almost mutually exclusive skills. Headphones resolve periphery sounds better then at the center, whereas speakers tend to resolve sounds at the center better than the periphery. With the 800s I find they certainly get rather resolved but as madmollusc pointed out if I understood the point, is that phones place you literally amongst the musicians often dead center, whereas speakers place you in front of the source. YMMV

Point is it's still a rather vivid sound stage on the 800s, just not always as obvious on forward back sounds as left and right sources are, I suppose that would require some induced atmospherics to induce the depth illusion. I also find since the 800layers so well at all frequencies, that subtle EQ and reverbs/delays per channel I the mix can place a sound quite surgically but more in terms of distance than position vectors. With near field monitors depth perception to my ears, increase nearer to the center, 

KRKs are killer out doors for the same reasons, three missing walls and they're fantastically pleasing, I'm not using them for any thing professional.


----------



## Moonhead

Thanks Zoom.. At least one sane person In here. 

By the way I never said they beat HD800.

KRK can play bass like any passive, but it's a poor choice for an active speaker, with that bloomy bass. 

I wasn't trying to compere cans to speakers that would never be fair.

I agree with Zoom, you get a lot for you money if you choose to buy a good quality active speaker.


----------



## LugBug1

Any good speakers shouldn't be too colored, but will sound like whatever room/space they are in. Studio monitors are designed to give accuracy at close range. So in that respect they may sound better in that kind of environment... Thats the only thing I can think of that he means? 
  
 But I personally think its a none starter of an argument, one appears to be inside your head and the other fills the room. Minute details will always be clearer on good hp's simply because the sound is much closer to your ear. But a soundstage comparison is madness!  
  
 Theres a lot of talk of good speaker set ups in the design of headphones with regards to imaging etc and this makes sense, but still you can't compare them side by side. Madness.... (did I already say it was madness?) 
  
  
 Madness.. heh!


----------



## Twangsta

moonhead said:


> Studio monitors are the ONLY speakers that give you the same clean sound and details that match a good high-end can.
> Passive speakers are crap and a waste of money, they don't come close to giving you details as a good active or a good high-end can.
> 
> Only once I listen to a speaker that reminded me of HD800 and is was Yamaha HS8.
> ...




I wouldn't write off passive speakers as there's usually no such thing, but I think I get what you mean, the amps in powered monitors are essentially mono blocks with factory designed as a whole package, the speaker is designed to work with just it's amps and same shoes for the amp. Results would vary as a vertical vs horizontal market, separates vs combos. Not the best analogy, combos, ugh!

I don't think I've ever heard any speaker with the 800's high frequency resolution, but then I've never heard the 800s to give me that lower end extension either, not that it's lacking anything, it's fantastic and detailed with the BCL. If anything pushing that much air changes the scales, they cannot be the same thing.


----------



## Moonhead

LugBug
Many speakers are tilling to mass of bass or tilled treble, not that many balanced speakers out there. 
But you are right that acoustics in a good room with a lot of furniture will give you a more balance natural sound
And the opposite if your room is bare with nothing much on the walls.
Sadly most people take snake oil and all that jinx before throwing a carpet, curtains and a nice big couch which will have an effect that any snake oil can't provide.


----------



## Twangsta

moonhead said:


> Thanks Zoom.. At least one sane person In here.
> 
> By the way I never said they beat HD800.
> 
> ...




Yeah, KRKs were the only things available on short notice at the time, but as I said they redeem them selves out doors for listening, the ISO stands do help eliminate some of the mud and interaction with the table it's placed upon. Sound better than a lot of hifi twice it's price!


----------



## Moonhead

Twangsta you must be very happy, because you have a speaker that compete with almost any passive speakers out there. 
I will never recommend KRK to anyone, there a better choices out there if you want to know what a quality active speaker is capable off. 
Please don't take this as a offense, mate.. You are doing a lot better than most


----------



## Twangsta

moonhead said:


> Twangsta you must be very happy, because you have a speaker that compete with almost any passive speakers out there.
> I will never recommend KRK to anyone, there a better choices out there if you want to know what a quality active speaker is capable off.
> Please don't take this as a offense, mate.. You are doing a lot better than most




Oh none taken, I totally agree with you, KRK is the last thing I'd get if I had to do this again.


----------



## LugBug1

Madness! 
  
  
 (_that wasn't specifically directed at anyone... Just wanted to say it again for my own sense of humour)_


----------



## Moonhead

NO.. The journey to audio nirvana. 
It will be short if you choose active instead of passive, plus money saved that one can use on quality cans


----------



## Twangsta

These, had my heart set on these, some day.

http://www.neumann-kh-line.com/neumann-kh/home_en.nsf/root/prof-monitoring_studio-monitors_nearfield-monitors_KH120A


----------



## Moonhead

Wow that's a nice speaker and not that expensive considering its a Neumann, which makes the best microphones in the industry. 
But we both know its foolish buying without listening to them.

Sorry for off topic, guys,


----------



## hekeli

I had some O300's, then downgraded to KH120A, then sold them also... they were awesome, but pointless having those things at home without some extreme acoustics done. Sooo much easier listening to HD800's and especially bass detail is from another world compared to "just speakers"..


----------



## Moonhead

Depends what situation you are in, I have a little boy so I listen to my speakers all day long, when he goes to bed it's headphone time


----------



## hekeli

Probably means you can't listen to them too seriously then? But if you don't mind having (lots) of money tied to stuff like that, that's good.. I just use my old $100 M-Audio DX4 monitors which work fine for "casual" use..


----------



## Moonhead

We'll not all the time, but my boy is far more important than my gear.
Before I know it he will be bigger and have other interest as I will have more time for my gear.

Plus I will never have to buy another speaker, I'm settle with some of the best just as my 009.


----------



## Zoom25

Don't count out stuff like the Focal CMS series or even the Solo series. I think the people here will love that kind of sound.
  
 Most monitor companies have 3-ways as their flagships. Some of these new 3 ways are seriously end game material. Like the new 8260 is ridiculously good. For home use, if you have the space, go for a borderline nearfield to a midfield. Something like HR824 or 8050 (in terms of size and SPL).
  
 I listen roughly in a 8-10 feet triangle and it works well with my furniture. Plus I am lucky enough to have decent space for the speakers to breathe and did some treatment as well. I did some DIY dead stands that weigh 60 pounds each and then have them on the Recoil Stabilizers. Super tight sound.


----------



## LilBuck

Anyone have any experience with the Questyle Q192? I saw Tyll likes it and wanted to grab one used (which has been a slow process) but just wondered if it seems like a good budget friendly option for the HD800.


----------



## koiloco

zoom25 said:


> Wouldn't go as far as saying that studio monitors are the ONLY thing out there to beat HD800 or every speakers, although would say that mid level/ high end monitors would be the preference for me over HD800, if I had the freedom to listen to either. I just love the simplicity and hassle free approach of active monitors. No need to worry about amplifier synergy.
> Bottom line: With monitors, you get more for what you pay (Majority of the times)


 
  
 Now, this is someone being realistic.


----------



## deadie

I posted earlier how 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was after hearing how my "new to me" McIntosh MC2205 amp drove the HD800s.  So, I picked up a few more vintage pieces and an older DAC to cobble together a "poor man's MHA100".   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 MC2505 50wpc amp
 C31V preamp
 Transporter DAC
  
 It drives the HD800s with musical thump, full weight, rich vocals, and gobs of power.  Just awesome synergy.  These pieces are sitting on my desk, also driving a pair of Paradigm Studio 20 v3.


----------



## anetode

moonhead said:


> Studio monitors are the ONLY speakers that give you the same clean sound and details that match a good high-end can.
> Passive speakers are crap and a waste of money, they don't come close to giving you details as a good active or a good high-end can.


 
 You say this as if it's true.
  
 I notice that we share an appreciation for the Stax 009. The only speaker I've come across that reminded me of the smooth and detailed nature of the 009 was a passive planar magnetic line source by Wisdom audio.
  
 A studio monitor is simply a regular properly designed speaker. There are even some properly designed speakers in the realm of overpriced passive exotics.


----------



## 62ohm

What impresses me the most is that he speaks even without mentioning words like "IMO" or "YMMV" even once, as if his words are dogma. Mate, you must be fun at parties...


----------



## RUMAY408

deadie said:


> I posted earlier how
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Vintage, higher end receivers, like the McIntosh had enough dedicated power to the HP out to drive my old 600 ohm AKG K240 sextett.  
  
 If you can pick up this receiver for less than $500 you have a real bargain.
  
 Any new HP amp/DAC combo less than $500 cannot do justice to the HD800,


----------



## Maxvla

rumay408 said:


> Any new HP amp/DAC combo less than $500 cannot do justice to the HD800,



I wouldn't be so sure. Modi/Vali reportedly does well at $220. I can personally verify that the M-Stage HPA-2 w/ USB does quite well for its $320 cost.


----------



## 62ohm

maxvla said:


> rumay408 said:
> 
> 
> > Any new HP amp/DAC combo less than $500 cannot do justice to the HD800,
> ...


 
  
 It would be interesting to see a direct comparison of the Wyrd/Modi/Vali and the M-Stage HPA-2, both cost exactly the same.


----------



## koiloco

rumay408 said:


> Vintage, higher end receivers, like the McIntosh had enough dedicated power to the HP out to drive my old 600 ohm AKG K240 sextett.
> 
> If you can pick up this receiver for less than $500 you have a real bargain.
> 
> *Any new HP amp/DAC combo less than $500 cannot do justice to the HD800, *


 
 ...and so you have heard all the amps under $500, haven't you?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Or shall we say "justice" is also subjective/relative?
  
 Lately, this thread has gone into some interesting directions...


----------



## RUMAY408

I have multiple portable set ups less than $500 FiiO E11, AQ DF and previously a Bellari HA540. 
  
 this is a high end thread?
  
 Seriously a $1500 HP driven by low end amps, I'm not trying to insult anyone, but when I said 5-10K as more of a potential end amp game for the HD800 I was serious.


----------



## Maxvla

No one is saying sub $500 is end game. You didn't say that either. The combos mentioned are good synergy setups for those saving (or waiting on orders) for end game amps/dacs. They also are better than quite a few more expensive mid range combos and even some high end combos.


----------



## RUMAY408

maxvla said:


> No one is saying sub $500 is end game. You didn't say that either. The combos mentioned are good synergy setups for those saving (or waiting on orders) for end game amps/dacs. They also are better than quite a few more expensive mid range combos and even some high end combos.


 
 I'll be more specific, the <$500 set ups I have with the HD800 did not work as well as the ALO Audio MKlllB+ and Meier Stack did.
  
 If there is a <$500 set up that's better than those two then maybe I wasted a lot of dough, frankly both the Meier and ALO  portable kicked the previous set ups to the curve, the HD800 is an unbelievable HP, I have the T1 but I keep going back to the HD800 its addictive.
  
 The sound with better recordings will reveal detail that my other HP's can't.


----------



## BournePerfect

62ohm said:


> It would be interesting to see a direct comparison of the Wyrd/Modi/Vali and the M-Stage HPA-2, both cost exactly the same.




I actually have a Wyrd/Modi/Vali all arriving tomorrow.  I don't have a USB m-Stage, but I am very familiar with it's amping capabilities w/regards to the HD800.

 Will be comparing both from my PC and SBT/EDO to see if I can hear differences w/ the Wyrd.

-Daniel


----------



## Fearless1

62ohm said:


> It would be interesting to see a direct comparison of the Wyrd/Modi/Vali and the M-Stage HPA-2, both cost exactly the same.


 

 Own all of the above, *IMHO*





, the Wyrd/Modi/Vali is much better then the M-stage with the HD800.
  
 This does not touch my main HD-800 rig, but after hearing the Vali/Modi/HD800 I had to buy one for the office (replaced the M-stage).


----------



## BournePerfect

I also prefer the Vali over the m-Stage, though I probably would say they compliment each other more than anything. The m-Stage (stock) is definitely the warmer amp-great for people who want to tone down the stock 800. The Vali is punchier and more detailed of the two though-plays to it's strengths more imo, whereas the Matrix plays to it's (perceived) 'weaknesses', if that makes sense.


----------



## koiloco

rumay408 said:


> I have multiple portable set ups less than $500 FiiO E11, AQ DF and previously a Bellari HA540.
> 
> *this is a high end thread?*
> 
> Seriously a $1500 HP driven by low end amps, I'm not trying to insult anyone, but when I said 5-10K as more of a potential end amp game for the HD800 I was serious.


 
 For me, this hobby, even in the high end section, is not a $ pissing contest and IMO, it shouldn't be.  Often $ would dictate the quality but not always.  I am always more for getting the most out of $ spent.
  
 The mentality of spending more and more and more just to have "high end" stuffs, IMO and experience, is so yesterday.  Worse, looking down and doubting the fact that something costing much less could potentially be as good is just pure ignorance.
  
 Just my 2c.


----------



## Zoom25

If I was in the US and had a $500 budget, I'd go for a refurbished Emotiva DC-1 at $399 directly from Emotiva and add a Vali (based on what I heard). You'll have a solid DAC to last you a long time. Next upgrade the amp over time as you get used to HD800 and which way you'd like to change the sound to. The DC-1 is quite neutral with a very minor bass bump to my ears.


----------



## Moonhead

Zoom
Focal along with KRK are some of the worst active speakers I've head. 
KRK with unnatural bloomy bass, Focal with ear piercing unnatural treble, no thanks.


----------



## Sorrodje

Seriously guys ? can you stop this speakers battle ? 
  
 Open a thread and go fighting youselves there but not here. thks.  I didn't notify your posts to moderator yet but the next time I will push the red button.


----------



## lin0003

sorrodje said:


> Seriously guys ? can you stop this speakers battle ?
> 
> Open a thread and go fighting youselves there but not here. thks.  I didn't notify your posts to moderator yet but the next time I will push the red button.


 
 +1
  
 Back on topic, to the HD800.


----------



## anetode

lin0003 said:


> +1
> 
> Back on topic, to the HD800.


 

 I hear that it doesn't have the soundstage of a speaker.


----------



## Sorrodje

anetode said:


> I hear that it doesn't have the soundstage of a speaker.


 
  
 L.O.L 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  . look at what I prepared for you :
  

  
 We're still in love with middle-age traditions here in France


----------



## longbowbbs

rumay408 said:


> I have multiple portable set ups less than $500 FiiO E11, AQ DF and previously a Bellari HA540.
> 
> this is a high end thread?
> 
> Seriously a $1500 HP driven by low end amps, I'm not trying to insult anyone, but when I said 5-10K as more of a potential end amp game for the HD800 I was serious.


 
 ^This.....Still, it does not mean you cannot have decent performance with lower end amps. Top end Sennheiser's (HD650's & HD800's) scale very well and reward the listener when they improve the chain. I love mine, but it took awhile to get there.


----------



## Madmollusk

koiloco said:


> For me, this hobby, even in the high end section, is not a $ pissing contest and IMO, it shouldn't be.  Often $ would dictate the quality but not always.  I am always more for getting the most out of $ spent.
> 
> The mentality of spending more and more and more just to have "high end" stuffs, IMO and experience, is so yesterday.  Worse, looking down and doubting the fact that something costing much less could potentially be as good is just pure ignorance.
> 
> Just my 2c.


 
 This needed to be said.
  
 Price isn’t synonymous with performance (not anymore at least) and as the headphone/headphone amp market rapidly expands, innovative companies (like Schiit) are creating high performance products to exploit the vacuum that once existed between entry level/consumer products and the high-end market. This new market (_The quality products for increasingly competitive prices _market), is just beginning to heat up, so everyone should happily anticipate better and more feature-rich products for everyman prices: this is the age of open-source tech and internet direct sales, after all!


----------



## rsbrsvp

Has anyone who does not consider the HD800 bright at all ever tried a pure silver cable and compared it to stock?
  
 I would appreciate your comments.


----------



## longbowbbs

rsbrsvp said:


> Has anyone who does not consider the HD800 bright at all ever tried a pure silver cable and compared it to stock?
> 
> I would appreciate your comments.


 
 The Silver Widow from Toxic Cables is a great match with the HD800's.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/641166/toxic-cables-silver-widow-headphone-cable-review


----------



## nigeljames

longbowbbs said:


> The Silver Widow from Toxic Cables is a great match with the HD800's.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/641166/toxic-cables-silver-widow-headphone-cable-review


 
  
 + 1


----------



## Mentis

longbowbbs said:


> The Silver Widow from Toxic Cables is a great match with the HD800's.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/641166/toxic-cables-silver-widow-headphone-cable-review


 
 what about Wywire RED and Black Dragon V2 from Moon Audio?  Or Silver Dragon V3?  are they good?


----------



## archeryc

Does the GS-X MK2 are the best pairing with HD800 in its price range? How's its single end phone out compares with its balanced phone out? 
  
 As my Hugo DAC only have RCA output so I'm confusing wether I should use single end or balance of this amp...


----------



## longbowbbs

mentis said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > The Silver Widow from Toxic Cables is a great match with the HD800's.
> ...




They are highly regarded by many, but I have never used them


----------



## archeryc

I love my Siltech Duchess Crown, the sweetest cable I ever heard with HD800~~


----------



## LugBug1

archeryc said:


> I love my Siltech Duchess Crown, the sweetest cable I ever heard with HD800~~


 
 Audiophile quote of the week


----------



## Mentis

archeryc said:


> I love my Siltech Duchess Crown, the sweetest cable I ever heard with HD800~~


 
 How much did they cost?


----------



## archeryc

mentis said:


> How much did they cost?




Not cheap... I got the 2m one in $1400. But with Furutech Carbon XLR Connectors.


----------



## Currawong

Guys, FYI I deleted some of the discussion about speakers. Please try and keep the discussion on topic.


----------



## Sonido

So the Bakoon HPA-01 I ordered a while back came in today. This is a special amp because it output current gain, rather than voltage gain like pretty much every other amp. Because of current rather than voltage output, the amount of amplification is directly influenced by the impedance. For headphones with flat impedance curves like planars, it wouldn't be much different than traditional voltage amps, but for headphones that do not have a flat impedance like the HD800, each frequency will be amplified differently depending on the impedance at that frequency. Thus, it becomes colored for sure for a headphone like the HD800.
  
 Pretty much if you're a huge fan of the HD650, and you're sad that the HD800 is more the spiritual successor to the HD600 in sound signature, and the closest thing you get is the black-sheep HD700, the Bakoon may be the amp for you. The difference is enough to be two difference headphones. Who needs a complementary headphone, when you get a complementary amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Here are some early impressions:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/664097/bakoon-hpa-21-headphone-amplifier/465#post_10814306
  
 More on this current mode technology:
 http://www.bakoonproducts.com/technology/satri-circuit/


----------



## akhyar

archeryc said:


> Not cheap... I got the 2m one in $1400. But with Furutech Carbon XLR Connectors.


 
  
 Indeed it is not cheap. Can buy another HD800 for that price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Right now I'm using WyWires RED with 4-pin XLR. Previously I was using Furutech ADL carbon connector but single-ended.
 Both are copper cables and they give more "meat" to the bass slam and tame the treble a little bit, compared to the stock cable which is SPC


----------



## RUMAY408

longbowbbs said:


> ^This.....Still, it does not mean you cannot have decent performance with lower end amps. Top end Sennheiser's (HD650's & HD800's) scale very well and reward the listener when they improve the chain. I love mine, but it took awhile to get there.


 
 I want to apologize for my bad attitude last night.  
  
 I totally agree its a journey.
  
 Maybe the thing I love about the HD800 most, the more you go up the ladder (Amp, DAC, Source) the better it sounds.


----------



## Justin_Time

longbowbbs said:


> The Silver Widow from Toxic Cables is a great match with the HD800's.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/641166/toxic-cables-silver-widow-headphone-cable-review


 
 Just a word of caution: *longbowbbs' * review of the Silver Widow was with the HD-650 not the HD800, which is a different animal when it comes to cable and amp.
  
 Now another viewpoint.  I personally found that the HD800 was positively allergic to anything containing silver (see my discussion in http://www.head-fi.org/t/729976/matching-headphones-cables-amplifiers-harder-than-it-should-be-very-long-post)
  
 I tried the HD800 with the Silver Poison and found the sound unbearably sibilant and hard. I am not saying that the Silver Poison is a bad cable, very far from it, it just is not a good match for the HD800.  On the other hand,  I tried both the Silver Poison and the Silver Widow with the LCD2 and LCD3 and they work absolutely great together.
  
  I personally found Frank's Copper Venom (OCC copper; 22 AWG rectangular wires; cryo treatment)  to be the best match for the HD800 (and the HE-6). Though the Copper Venom ain't cheap--I think they cost even more than the Silver Widow--I have never found anything better even at three times the price. 
  
 Frank, you always wanted to know what I did with all those cables I bought from you.  Now you know.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

What do you guys do with your HD800 cable when you're not using them? I put the headphones back in the box with the cable coiled inside where my head would normally go, in between the cups. Unfortunately after only three days this is already resulting in the cable naturally coiling itself -_-.


----------



## 62ohm

toddthemetalgod said:


> What do you guys do with your HD800 cable when you're not using them? I put the headphones back in the box with the cable coiled inside where my head would normally go, in between the cups. Unfortunately after only three days this is already resulting in the cable naturally coiling itself -_-.


 
  
 I don't put mine in its box, I just hang it on a Woo stand and cover it with some sort of linen cover I got from a pair of shoes when not in use. 
  
  


Spoiler: Uncovered






  


Spoiler: Covered


----------



## LilBuck

Is that a Norne cable? How do you like it (and which is it)? Been thinking of grabbing one, they look really nice.


----------



## akhyar

toddthemetalgod said:


> What do you guys do with your HD800 cable when you're not using them? I put the headphones back in the box with the cable coiled inside where my head would normally go, in between the cups. Unfortunately after only three days this is already resulting in the cable naturally coiling itself -_-.




If you're talking about the unused stock cable, I just coiled it loosely and put it inside the original box


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

62ohm said:


> I don't put mine in its box, I just hang it on a Woo stand and cover it with some sort of linen cover I got from a pair of shoes when not in use.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I should get a stand and a cover, seems like a better place to store them. I started wrapping it around the outside of the headphones for now... this results in a lot less tangling. I kind of feel obligated to use the nice box, though .


----------



## 62ohm

lilbuck said:


> Is that a Norne cable? How do you like it (and which is it)? Been thinking of grabbing one, they look really nice.


 
  
 To be honest I don't think the cables make any difference at all as I suspect the improvements I heard were caused by going SE to Balanced (it's a Norne Skoll btw). I may get a Norne Draug V2 later on and do a direct comparison to know for sure by myself whether cables make difference or not. But yeah, TBH the major motivation of getting aftermarket cables for me is because of its looks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


toddthemetalgod said:


> I should get a stand and a cover, seems like a better place to store them. I started wrapping it around the outside of the headphones for now... this results in a lot less tangling. I kind of feel obligated to use the nice box, though
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well I used to only hang them and not cover them, but that results in the necessity to clear the dust filter every 2 months max. You can also get a shorter cable if you are annoyed by the stock cable's length, I use a 5 ft. cable and life became much more enjoyable with the absence of my cable tangling problem.


----------



## LilBuck

62ohm said:


> To be honest I don't think the cables make any difference at all as I suspect the improvements I heard were caused by going SE to Balanced (it's a Norne Skoll btw). I may get a Norne Draug V2 later on and do a direct comparison to know for sure by myself whether cables make difference or not. But yeah, TBH the major motivation of getting aftermarket cables for me is because of its looks


 
  
 Oh I would be buying them mostly for looks and because I think the stock cable feels rigid (looks probably a bigger part). Any better sound is probably just gravy. Is it heavier than the stock cable?


----------



## Moonhead

Changing cables doesn't add anything IMO, and the stock cable on HD800 are really nice quality cable. 
On the other hand sometimes I felt It was way to long with 3m I could easily live with one half the size and I where close to buying one fine cable from Forza audio works, just to get a shorter one.


----------



## Sorrodje

moonhead said:


> Changing cables doesn't add anything IMO, and the stock cable on HD800 are really nice quality cable.
> On the other hand sometimes I felt It was way to long with 3m I could easily live with one half the size and I where close to buying one fine cable from Forza audio works, just to get a shorter one.


 
  
 Same point of view here.  The stock Cable is very hard to live with . It's stiff , too long for a desktop use and as said before it always coils itself.  I bought a basic 1m50 cardas and was perfectly happy. I sold it recently because my Sonett offers a balanced mode and I'll order soon a XLR terminated cable from Forza Audioworks . Maybe two meters to have a bit more room to move around my desk. 
  
 I didn't notice any sonic differences since I'm back to Stock cable. I expect more improvements with the Sonett Balanced mode.
  
 @Monnhead ; You own both HD800 & SR009 ? Can you tell me why you keep both ? those headphones seemed too close to be complementary in my opinion but I'm interested to have your opinon.


----------



## 62ohm

lilbuck said:


> 62ohm said:
> 
> 
> > To be honest I don't think the cables make any difference at all as I suspect the improvements I heard were caused by going SE to Balanced (it's a Norne Skoll btw). I may get a Norne Draug V2 later on and do a direct comparison to know for sure by myself whether cables make difference or not. But yeah, TBH the major motivation of getting aftermarket cables for me is because of its looks
> ...


 
  
 I don't notice any significant difference of weight.


----------



## Moonhead

Sorrodje

No i sold my HD800 recently only to collect some cash for one KGGSHV 
I still not sure that selling my HD800 was the right thing to do, but needed the money.

I'm still waiting for my KGSSHV so I've actually never listen to my 009 yet!!


----------



## MattTCG

sonido said:


> So the Bakoon HPA-01 I ordered a while back came in today. This is a special amp because it output current gain, rather than voltage gain like pretty much every other amp. Because of current rather than voltage output, the amount of amplification is directly influenced by the impedance. For headphones with flat impedance curves like planars, it wouldn't be much different than traditional voltage amps, but for headphones that do not have a flat impedance like the HD800, each frequency will be amplified differently depending on the impedance at that frequency. Thus, it becomes colored for sure for a headphone like the HD800.
> 
> Pretty much if you're a huge fan of the HD650, and you're sad that the HD800 is more the spiritual successor to the HD600 in sound signature, and the closest thing you get is the black-sheep HD700, the Bakoon may be the amp for you. The difference is enough to be two difference headphones. Who needs a complementary headphone, when you get a complementary amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is well said. I particularly liked the phrase "spiritual successor."


----------



## Justin_Time

moonhead said:


> Changing cables doesn't add anything IMO, and the stock cable on HD800 are really nice quality cable.
> On the other hand sometimes I felt It was way to long with 3m I could easily live with one half the size and I where close to buying one fine cable from Forza audio works, just to get a shorter one.


 
 Lucky you.  You save money that way.
  
 I cannot afford to be as dismissive of changing cables as my experience is completely the opposite:  of all the headphones I own,  the HD800 (and the PS1000) is just about the most sensitive to cables.
  
 My suggestion:  other links in your chain may be the limiting factor (s).  
  
 It is true that, in terms of relative impact on the sound,  roughly, source > amp > cable.  But I could still easily hear the difference between the stock cable, silver cable (Silver Widow) and copper cable (Copper Venom) through my home system using the HD800.  But through my much more modest desk-top system at work, the cable made very little  difference.


----------



## nigeljames

justin_time said:


> Lucky you.  You save money that way.
> 
> I cannot afford to be as dismissive of changing cables as my experience is completely the opposite:  of all the headphones I own,  the HD800 (and the PS1000) is just about the most sensitive to cables.
> 
> ...


 
  
 + 100


----------



## preproman

sorrodje said:


> I expect more improvements with the Sonett Balanced mode.


 
 Does the Sonett have balanced inputs or only SE inputs?  I'm wondering if the Sonett is a balanced amp or not.  If not the balanced output will  should sound the same as the SE output.  I'm just guessing here.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

preproman said:


> Does the Sonett have balanced inputs or only SE inputs?  I'm wondering if the Sonett is a balanced amp or not.  If not the balanced output will  should sound the same as the SE output.  I'm just guessing here.




It's a single ended gain stage with balanced outputs provided by the output transformer. He has a white paper on his website about it. A lot of tube headphone amps are like this though


----------



## Sorrodje

> *Some comments about balanced headphone drive*
> I am frequently asked why an amplifier with balanced outputs does not include balanced inputs. This is because balanced inputs are not necessary to provide balanced headphone drive. Being a single ended amplifier, all it needs for input is a single ended (unbalanced) signal. The Sonett 2 operates single ended triode with transformer loading the plate of the 6H30 amplification tubes. The secondary windings on the output transformers are center tapped (and grounded for safety), thereby providing a true, differential, balanced output. Thus, you get balanced drive without the complexity from additional balanced input circuitry or input transformers. Again, the simpler - the better.


 
  
 From http://www.dnaudio.com/DNA-Sonett-2-headphone-amplifier.html .
  
  
 My skills in electronics are close to inexistant so I don't know if the Sonett's Balanced mode is equal to other balanced mode ?


----------



## preproman

That Donald is a very smart man...


----------



## longbowbbs

justin_time said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > The Silver Widow from Toxic Cables is a great match with the HD800's.
> ...


 
 Caution? I use Silver Widows with my HD800's. I have had them for a long time and they crush the stock cables. The Bass is better and the small gold content takes the edge off the treble. Great cables and a nice final piece of the sonic puzzle.


----------



## longbowbbs

rumay408 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > ^This.....Still, it does not mean you cannot have decent performance with lower end amps. Top end Sennheiser's (HD650's & HD800's) scale very well and reward the listener when they improve the chain. I love mine, but it took awhile to get there.
> ...


 
 No worry's Randy! The HD800's really bring the joy when combined with the right gear.


----------



## Justin_Time

longbowbbs said:


> Caution? I use Silver Widows with my HD800's. I have had them for a long time and they crush the stock cables. The Bass is better and the small gold content takes the edge off the treble. Great cables and a nice final piece of the sonic puzzle.



 



Oh I agree. The Silver Widow “crush[es]” the stock cable on the HD800. I still think there is good reason to proceed cautiously when it comes to finding the right cable for the HD800, which is exceedingly picky—only the PS1000 is harder to please.


The Silver Widow is a superlative cable—I have not found anything even at five times its price to outperform it with my LCD3. It is a very neutral and highly transparent cable. It is ultra-fast and capable of throwing a huge sound-stage. Its ability to convey minute inner-details is also un-matched. I found the Silver Widow to be the best cable for the LCD2 and LCD3 and the TH-900 (though some out-patient surgery is required here as the stock cable is not detachable), but not the HD800. 


The Silver Widow (and the Silver Poison, which I also tried) reinforces all the strengths of the HD800 but unfortunately all its weaknesses as well. The HD800 bass, already very deep and taut, becomes way too tight with diminished impact. The transients are lightning fast leading to over-etched details. The HD800 voice is further tilted upward toward the trebles with added sibilance and edginess. Try Allison Krauss SACD Now that I Found You. On the second cut (Atlanta), her beautiful voice started to sound strident, and a few times, the hissing was so strong I had the feeling she was a Slytherin speaking parseltongue. With the tonal balance thus tilted toward the high frequencies, the HD800 becomes even more prone to sibilance and stridency and un-forgiving of any recording that is less than pristine. 


I found that the Copper Venom, also from Frank’s Toxic Cables, was a better “match” for the HD800. As you know, the Copper Venom uses OCC 22-AWG rectangular wires and similar cryogenic treatment as the Silver Widow. I do not think they are as transparent or as revealing as the Silver Widow but they seem to transmit less treble energy (my speculations) which definitely helps reduce the HD800’s tendency toward sibilance and stridence. The Copper Venom also adds smoothness and warmth to the HD800 midrange—exactly what the Doctor ordered—while leaving the delicate details and huge soundstage of the HD800 largely unaffected. The bass also gets a slight bloom that contributes to much better impact. 


These were not the only two cables I tried with the HD800. Over a period of about three years, I must have tried over a dozen cables that shall remain nameless as I do not want to antagonize their fans needlessly. In general, copper cables were better match for the HD800 than silver-coated or silver cables, though I must say that Frank’s Silver Poison (4-wire) and Silver Widow (8-wire) fared far better than any other silver cables I tried with the HD800—it must be all that gold he added and the magic surface treatment. But ultimately, for my musical and sonic taste, the combination Copper Venom/HD800 was a clear winner.
Cheers,

Justin Time (ST)


----------



## seb7

When I go to Toxic Cables' website I don't find Copper Venom at all. Is it discontinued?
  
 All I see for HD800 is Silver Poison and Viper.


----------



## punit

They are good cables but please mentally prepare yourself for a long wait (about 6 months). I placed an order in April , still waiting. The site in not updated, you will have to send him an email.


----------



## LugBug1

punit said:


> They are good cables but please mentally prepare yourself for a long wait (about 6 months). I placed an order in April , still waiting. The site in not updated, you will have to send him an email.


 
 Yup hes a busy man... Some would say too busy! 6 months is a stupid amount of time to wait for any component in this hobby. I think I waited about 3 weeks when I bought one of his cables about 2 year ago. 
  
 He needs to get some staff


----------



## Justin_Time

seb7 said:


> When I go to Toxic Cables' website I don't find Copper Venom at all. Is it discontinued?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Frank never updated his website.

The way to order is through email (PM). You can find this info in the Toxic Cable Appreciation thread.

The information on his cable was given in just several posts before this one, I believe. If not PM me. I may have it somewhere.


----------



## icebear

I have a Norne Vanquish for my HD800 with Neutrik XX dual 3 pin XLRs.
 Currently using a Skoll SE to balanced adapter until the 2014 batch of GSX's is shipping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 As I needed 14ft, there was no other reasonable offer out there. Everyone of the usual suspects was charging an arm and leg for that run of a cable. All aspects of sound quality with the Vanquish are great in my book. No micro phonics issues at all (red sleeving) and light and comfortable. But I never had any issues with the stock cable either -other than the coiling. With my e20 DAC the HD800 has no sibilance if it isn't in the recording and there is no lack of bass. It's accurate and it's not bloated. But then maybe it's just my music preference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Justin_Time

icebear said:


> I have a Norne Vanquish for my HD800 with Neutrik XX dual 3 pin XLRs.
> 
> 
> Currently using a Skoll SE to balanced adapter until the 2014 batch of GSX's is shipping
> ...



 


I may have an alternate explanation: we get used to the sound of our favorite headphones and after some time, it becomes our reference. 

There is no simple way to compare headphone sound to the sound of a stereo system or the sound of live (acoustic) music in a concert hall because they are so different. The simplest and least satisfying way is to compare the sound of different headphones.

I had a pair of HP-2 for the longest time and never though there was anything wrong with their sound...until I started to acquire other headphones like the HD800, PS1000, LCD2/3, HE-500/6, Denon 7000, TH-900 and Stax 007. Then I become gradually and increasingly dissatisfied with some aspects of every pair of headphones!

Justin_Time

PS: A man with a single pair of headphones knows what music sounds like, a man with several pairs is never sure...


----------



## koiloco

justin_time said:


> icebear said:
> 
> 
> > I have a Norne Vanquish for my HD800 with Neutrik XX dual 3 pin XLRs.
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## MickeyVee

*+100* - Ain't that the truth - but for me, I always come back to the HD800. Not perfect but it's my reference. I should really stop looking for a complimentary pair but what the hey, this is HeadFi so no stopping us.
 Quote:


justin_time said:


> *PS: A man with a single pair of headphones knows what music sounds like, a man with several pairs is never sure...*


----------



## RUMAY408

justin_time said:


> Lucky you.  You save money that way.
> 
> I cannot afford to be as dismissive of changing cables as my experience is completely the opposite:  of all the headphones I own,  the HD800 (and the PS1000) is just about the most sensitive to cables.
> 
> ...


 
 I thought the cable would have made little difference till I changed stock to a balanced ALO Green on my HD650.  That was such a big upgrade now I'm a believer.
  
 My problem with the HD800, I can't change out cables (on my own) without altering the warranty on the HP, any thoughts about this.  Any experience with ALO cables?


----------



## preproman

justin_time said:


> Justin_Time
> 
> PS: A man with a single pair of headphones knows what music sounds like, a man with several pairs is never sure...


 
  
 Nope - not going to agree.


----------



## midnightwalker

justin_time said:


> Justin_Time
> 
> PS: A man with a single pair of headphones knows what music sounds like, a man with several pairs is never sure...


 
  
 Lol you better put YMMV after that but I can pretty sure that a man with only 1 pair of headphone will never has chance to know the differences of a song with different pairs of headphone.


----------



## Justin_Time

rumay408 said:


> I thought the cable would have made little difference till I changed stock to a balanced ALO Green on my HD650.  That was such a big upgrade now I'm a believer.
> 
> My problem with the HD800, I can't change out cables (on my own) without altering the warranty on the HP, any thoughts about this.  Any experience with ALO cables?


 
 I never heard of the HD800 warranty being affected if you change the cable?  
  
Are you absolutely positive about that? Or are you just yanking my chain?  Why on earth would Sennheiser make the HD800 cable detachable if it cannot be...detached without affecting the warranty 



. Not that it makes any difference to me. I change the cable if it needs changing.
  
  
 Yep, I have tried the ALO cables--good cables--and quite a few others.  But I found my favorite cables with Frank's (Toxic Cables).  That man is on to something.  I get more performance with less money.  Not that some of his cables are inexpensive.  The Silver Widow and Copper Venom are quite pricey though they deliver the performance of cables several times their costs. Drawback: waiting period could be up to several months!
  
  
 BTW, some headphones (e.g. the Audeze LCD2/3) are less sensitive to cables than others (HD800; PS1000).  I have no idea why.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

rumay408 said:


> I thought the cable would have made little difference till I changed stock to a balanced ALO Green on my HD650.  That was such a big upgrade now I'm a believer.
> 
> My problem with the HD800,* I can't change out cables (on my own) without altering the warranty on the HP*, any thoughts about this.  Any experience with ALO cables?


 
  
 Where did you hear this?  Unless there is something very special about your pair, I don't think there is any truth to that.


----------



## RUMAY408

bigfatpaulie said:


> Where did you hear this?  Unless there is something very special about your pair, I don't think there is any truth to that.


 
  


justin_time said:


> I never heard of the HD800 warranty being affected if you change the cable?
> 
> Are you absolutely positive about that? Or are you just yanking my chain?  Why on earth would Sennheiser make the HD800 cable detachable if it cannot be...detached without affecting the warranty
> 
> ...


 
 The HD650 cable is easy to detach, so the HD800 is simple to disconnect?  
  
 If I break it putting in new cables the warranty will be intact? 
 Why does it take so long for professionals to upgrade the cable?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

The HD800 cable is just as easy: just pull.  The HD800 cable, for re-attaching, is a little better IMHO because it only fits one way.  The HD6X0 cable can be jammed in the wrong way.


----------



## RUMAY408

bigfatpaulie said:


> The HD800 cable is just as easy: just pull.  The HD800 cable, for re-attaching, is a little better IMHO because it only fits one way.  The HD6X0 cable can be jammed in the wrong way.


 
 Seriously I was not trying to be provocative.
  
Excellent information, I had a refurbished HD800 that fell apart at the hinges but was under warranty, so Crutchfield gave back full credit on them, since then I have taken the view that if I start yanking out cables I might void any warranty.  Very expensive HP's and other HP's (T1) new cables are replaced only with authorized dealers (Moon Audio).
  
If I can replace the cable myself well I'm all over that, thank you


----------



## bigfatpaulie

rumay408 said:


> Seriously I was not trying to be provocative.
> 
> Excellent information, I had a refurbished HD800 that fell apart at the hinges but was under warranty, so Crutchfield gave back full credit on them, since then I have taken the view that if I start yanking out cables I might void any warranty.  Very expensive HP's and other HP's (T1) new cables are replaced only with authorized dealers (Moon Audio).
> 
> If I can replace the cable myself well I'm all over that, thank you


 
  
 The more you know!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Just hold one ear piece firmly and and give the cable a steady pull down.  Rinse and repeat for the other side.  
  
 Happy listening!


----------



## RUMAY408

bigfatpaulie said:


> The more you know!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks bigfatpaulie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Head-Fi needs to add an HD800 happy face!)


----------



## Justin_Time

rumay408 said:


> The HD650 cable is easy to detach, so the HD800 is simple to disconnect?
> 
> If I break it putting in new cables the warranty will be intact?
> Why does it take so long for professionals to upgrade the cable?




It does not take any skills to remove the HD800 cable: just grab the connector--not the cable--firmly and pull it straight out. It does not void the warranty.

You can order a replacement cable from many reputable places. You should be able to get it in less than a week unless you want some special length or connectors.


----------



## kothganesh

mentis said:


> what about Wywire RED and Black Dragon V2 from Moon Audio?  Or Silver Dragon V3?  are they good?


 
 Using the Wywires RED right now and for about a month now. Very good SQ. To my ears, there is a little bit more bottom end extension with no treble issues. I had some issues with the stock on the top end.


----------



## Justin_Time

rumay408 said:


> Seriously I was not trying to be provocative.
> 
> Excellent information, I had a refurbished HD800 that fell apart at the hinges but was under warranty, so Crutchfield gave back full credit on them, since then I have taken the view that if I start yanking out cables I might void any warranty.  Very expensive HP's and other HP's (T1) new cables are replaced only with authorized dealers (Moon Audio).
> 
> If I can replace the cable myself well I'm all over that, thank you



 


The HD800 has detachable cable, and if memory serves, the T1 does not so it requires authorized dealers to change the cable.


----------



## Justin_Time

kothganesh said:


> Using the Wywires RED right now and for about a month now. Very good SQ. To my ears, there is a little bit more bottom end extension with no treble issues. I had some issues with the stock on the top end.



 


Agreed.

Originally Posted by Mentis 

what about Wywire RED and Black Dragon V2 from Moon Audio? Or Silver Dragon V3? are they good?


I tried the Black Dragon V2 from Moon Audio. It works fine with the HD800. 

The Silver Dragon V3 is a more transparent and geneally better cable but it may not necessarily work better with the HD800. 

Someone who has used both cables with the HD800 would beable to provide a more balanced answer.


----------



## Caguioa

im currently very mobile with my laptop, whats a good amp/dac etc that i can put on a desk with my hd800, note that i have a laptop so no soundcard,
  
 what do you guys use?


----------



## BournePerfect

Vali for the amp for sure. The Modi is the obvious match for the price and aesthetic factors.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## MattTCG

Muddy Waters: Folk Singer (24/192)...NADm51/Valhalla2/800's=transcendent experience.


----------



## RUMAY408

caguioa said:


> im currently very mobile with my laptop, whats a good amp/dac etc that i can put on a desk with my hd800, note that i have a laptop so no soundcard,
> 
> what do you guys use?


 
 I'm using Mac>Amarra 3.2>Audioquest DF 1.0>ALO Audio MKlll


----------



## Zoom25

caguioa said:


> im currently very mobile with my laptop, whats a good amp/dac etc that i can put on a desk with my hd800, note that i have a laptop so no soundcard,
> 
> what do you guys use?


 
 Look into the Dangerous Music Source (DAC, Headphone amp, Pre-amp). It's an exceptional match with HD800 and it's (trans?)portable as well. Easy to move around in one of those Swiss Army backpacks (I take mines with me regularly). It will also drive your active speakers/monitors.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

I was just curious, how do other people that have heard and enjoyed, or own mid-end to high-end speakers feel about the imaging and soundstage of the HD800? I feel that out of all of the headphones I've heard (mostly mid-fi unfortunately) it has the closest spatial capability to a good pair of speakers. I always hear people say that the instruments/vocals are too large in the space on the HD800 (which compared to speakers baffles me, real instruments are huge in sound diffusion). I have to agree that on songs with only a couple instruments it feels sort of empty, but even with most rock and pop songs I feel it accurately represents the acoustic space.

I actually want to buy a pair of Magnepan's in the future because they're said to have an extremely precise soundstage, with large lifelike representations of instruments.

Keep in mind that I've only tried the HD800 with an iPod Touch 5G as source and JDS Labs O2 as amplifier. I plan to buy a Nuforce HA200 and Dacmagic 100 when I get some money though, don't panic .


----------



## Eee Pee

Soundstage and headphones in the same sentence is funny.
  
 Not until you experience what a proper stereo can do... you won't know.
  
 And Maggies are awesome.  Please go there.


----------



## BournePerfect

Didn't this thread just get cleaned up for all the speaker talk?

It did.


----------



## kothganesh

caguioa said:


> im currently very mobile with my laptop, whats a good amp/dac etc that i can put on a desk with my hd800, note that i have a laptop so no soundcard,
> 
> what do you guys use?


 
 Vali+ Bifrost Uber


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

bourneperfect said:


> Didn't this thread just get cleaned up for all the speaker talk?
> 
> It did.


Sorry, I didn't realize.


----------



## 62ohm

caguioa said:


> im currently very mobile with my laptop, whats a good amp/dac etc that i can put on a desk with my hd800, note that i have a laptop so no soundcard,
> 
> what do you guys use?


 
  
 Try auditioning the Centrance HiFi-M8 if you are looking for an all-in-one portable amp/dac.


----------



## Caguioa

62ohm said:


> Try auditioning the Centrance HiFi-M8 if you are looking for an all-in-one portable amp/dac.


 
 i see, how do i use t to plug it into my laptop?
 i only see pictures where i have to connect my ipod directly to it,
 id like to use it on my laptop to, and can it be used on console gaming?


----------



## 62ohm

caguioa said:


> 62ohm said:
> 
> 
> > Try auditioning the Centrance HiFi-M8 if you are looking for an all-in-one portable amp/dac.
> ...


 
  
 You can connect it to your laptop through usb, and if you get the toslink one, you can connect it to your consoles through optical (assuming they have an optical out). But as usual, be sure to audition it first though.


----------



## Caguioa

62ohm said:


> You can connect it to your laptop through usb, and if you get the toslink one, you can connect it to your consoles through optical (assuming they have an optical out). But as usual, be sure to audition it first though.


 
 Where to get the wires? how good is hifi-m8 for hd 800?


----------



## 62ohm

caguioa said:


> 62ohm said:
> 
> 
> > You can connect it to your laptop through usb, and if you get the toslink one, you can connect it to your consoles through optical (assuming they have an optical out). But as usual, be sure to audition it first though.
> ...


 
  
 Not sure, I haven't tried the HiFi-M8 with the HD800, someone who has tried the pairing would be able to give you a better insight. Try to audition it by yourself to see whether you like it or not. And regarding wires, IMO you can just get any cheap cable from your local shop.


----------



## Justin_Time

toddthemetalgod said:


> I was just curious, how do other people that have heard and enjoyed, or own mid-end to high-end speakers feel about the imaging and soundstage of the HD800? I feel that out of all of the headphones I've heard (mostly mid-fi unfortunately) it has the closest spatial capability to a good pair of speakers. I always hear people say that the instruments/vocals are too large in the space on the HD800 (which compared to speakers baffles me, real instruments are huge in sound diffusion). I have to agree that on songs with only a couple instruments it feels sort of empty, but even with most rock and pop songs I feel it accurately represents the acoustic space.
> 
> I actually want to buy a pair of Magnepan's in the future because they're said to have an extremely precise soundstage, with large lifelike representations of instruments.
> 
> ...


 
 I feel that listening to music with headphones, stereo speakers and in concert halls are and will probably remain three distinctly different experiences in the foreseeable future.
  
 I am using two different sets of speakers at home, the Maggies 3.7 being one of them. As good as they are, I have to play them very loud (95+ dB)  to get the resolution and impact of the bass that I get in concert halls at a much lower volume (no more than 90 dB).  I also have to sit perfectly at the center to get the proper imaging because of the Venetian-blind effect of bipolar, planar speakers.
  
 I do find that the Sennheiser HD800 come closest of all headphones (with perhaps the exception of the AKG K1000) to creating the illusion of a sound-stage, the greatest challenge to headphones. I think that sense of intimacy--the you-are-there experience--with the HD800 is quite remarkable especially when listening to simple acoustic music or vocals. This is an experience unique to headphones and IEM that I really enjoy and that speakers cannot duplicate--granted, this experience is artificial when compared to live (non-amplified) music but it doesn't keep it from being thoroughly enjoyable. And the HD800, thanks to its amazing clarity and resolution, delivers this intimate experience better than most headphones.
  
 But you need high-quality source/DAC/amp/cable to to get the best out of the HD800 or these cans will mercilessly expose all the shortcomings of various components in your system and sometimes make the experience a sonic nightmare.  In my admittedly limited experience I have never been able to hear the HD800 properly with the portable gears I tried including the A&S AK100/Chord Hugo.


----------



## Sonido

caguioa said:


> im currently very mobile with my laptop, whats a good amp/dac etc that i can put on a desk with my hd800, note that i have a laptop so no soundcard,
> 
> what do you guys use?



I have to say an underrated element to my new Bakoon HPA-01 is the size and portability. It's pretty small and light, and once charged up (internal li-ion batteries) lasts up to 10 hours. I've been charging it at home and then taking it to work everyday, with no need for power cables.


----------



## Moonhead

sonido said:


> I have to say an underrated element to my new Bakoon HPA-01 is the size and portability. It's pretty small and light, and once charged up (internal li-ion batteries) lasts up to 10 hours. I've been charging it at home and then taking it to work everyday, with no need for power cables.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Sonido

It makes the HD800 signature much darker through the current output mode. The details are all there but not as in your face due to less treble presence. At first I was a bit thrown off by the sound difference, but after a few more days of listening, I'm beginning to appreciate the darker sound. It's definitely easier on the ears and you could argue more natural in the same way a tube amp adds warmth for the same naturalness.

Some initial impressions where I was still a bit hesitant on the change in signature:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/664097/bakoon-hpa-21-headphone-amplifier/465#post_10814306

But it makes the HD800 like a different headphone altogether, so it's like owning complementary pairs of headphones.


----------



## MattTCG

sonido said:


> It makes the HD800 signature much darker through the current output mode. The details are all there but not as in your face due to less treble presence. At first I was a bit thrown off by the sound difference, but after a few more days of listening, I'm beginning to appreciate the darker sound. It's definitely easier on the ears and you could argue more natural in the same way a tube amp adds warmth for the same naturalness.
> 
> Some initial impressions where I was still a bit hesitant on the change in signature:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/664097/bakoon-hpa-21-headphone-amplifier/465#post_10814306
> ...


 
  
 Hm...I may need to find someone to loan me one for a short audition.


----------



## Moonhead

Thanks Sonido

Sound quite compelling with the Bakoon, I have owned HD800 with Questyle and it's a perfect combo if you love all the qualities of HD800 but at the same time somewhat sterile sounding but that could be me playing too loud. 
Otherwise it sounded very nice at low to medium volume, I have not listen to Bakoon thought.


----------



## Justin_Time

sonido said:


> It makes the HD800 signature much darker through the current output mode. The details are all there but not as in your face due to less treble presence. At first I was a bit thrown off by the sound difference, but after a few more days of listening, I'm beginning to appreciate the darker sound. It's definitely easier on the ears and you could argue more natural in the same way a tube amp adds warmth for the same naturalness.
> 
> Some initial impressions where I was still a bit hesitant on the change in signature:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/664097/bakoon-hpa-21-headphone-amplifier/465#post_10814306
> ...


 
 I agree!  The Bakoon HPA-21 imparts its own signature on the HD800 sound.
  
 My preference is to call this sound "warm" (with added mid-range overtones) to differentiate from the LCD2/3's sound, which is "dark" (less treble).  But this warmth is quite different from the "tube" warmth.  The treble is still there in great abundance with the HD800/Bakoon HPA-21 as attested by the vivid details in the sound but the tonal balance is shifted more toward the mid-range such that the treble is no longer highlighted (by the sibilance) as in the pairings of the HD800 with many other amps.
  
 This is the greatest strength of the HD800:  it is very transparent and will  take on the sonic character of other links in the chain, especially the amp.


----------



## lojay

justin_time said:


> I agree!  The Bakoon HPA-21 imparts its own signature on the HD800 sound.
> 
> My preference is to call this sound "warm" (with added mid-range overtones) to differentiate from the LCD2/3's sound, which is "dark" (less treble).  But this warmth is quite different from the "tube" warmth.  The treble is still there in great abundance with the HD800/Bakoon HPA-21 as attested by the vivid details in the sound but the tonal balance is shifted more toward the mid-range such that the treble is no longer highlighted (by the sibilance) as in the pairings of the HD800 with many other amps.
> 
> This is the greatest strength of the HD800:  it is very transparent and will  take on the sonic character of other links in the chain, especially the amp.




I don't like the HD800 with the WA5. Do you think that has got to do with the cables being stock?


----------



## Justin_Time

lojay said:


> I don't like the HD800 with the WA5. Do you think that has got to do with the cables being stock?


 
 Perhaps.  Many people do not like the HD800/WA5 pairing.  I do.  I like the almost non-tube-like sound with massive bass impact.
  
 I much prefer the sound of the HD800 with OCC Copper to Silver cables--I use Copper Venom from Toxic Cables.  Some like the Silver Widow with HD800. I do not but both cables sound noticeably better than the stock cable.  My suggestion is to borrow an OCC cable form someone or buy an inexpensive OCC cable and try it before spending a lot of money on the Copper Venom.


----------



## pearljam50000

cankin said:


> I have not heard M8 but I'm using O2 ODAC combo from JDS Labs and I love it.


 
 Would you be able to live with it as your only DAC/amp with the HD800?


----------



## Cankin

pearljam50000 said:


> Would you be able to live with it as your only DAC/amp with the HD800?




Yes.


----------



## Somphon

sonido said:


> It makes the HD800 signature much darker through the current output mode. The details are all there but not as in your face due to less treble presence. At first I was a bit thrown off by the sound difference, but after a few more days of listening, I'm beginning to appreciate the darker sound. It's definitely easier on the ears and you could argue more natural in the same way a tube amp adds warmth for the same naturalness.
> 
> Some initial impressions where I was still a bit hesitant on the change in signature:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/664097/bakoon-hpa-21-headphone-amplifier/465#post_10814306
> ...


 
 I've listen to HD800 with Bakoon HPA-21 and it sounds great. Then I was auditioning another amp (Aurorasound's HEADA) for my LCD-3f and I just plug in HD800 to see how it goes. 
 I was amazed at how good it sounded with HD800 to the point I don't want to take HD800 off. I use HD800 for classical and jazz music, still I never find HD800 with any amp good with other genre (IMO) Have anyone heard of this brand? 
  
 http://www.aurorasound.jp/english/heada-en.html


----------



## slickooz

Can RS-71B drive hd800 to a good listening level?


----------



## midnightwalker

slickooz said:


> Can RS-71B drive hd800 to a good listening level?


 
  
 Yes, good enough.


----------



## Windsor

Hey guys!

 I'm back on Head-fi after a hiatus and have just purchased an HDVD 800 and Sennheiser balanced cable a few days ago, both of which I'm really enjoying a lot so far with my HD 800, more and more as I continue to listen! I'm very happy with this rig and am also enjoying having the option of switching to the HD 600, which I've never before heard driven by a decent amp prior to using it with the HDVD 800. 


  
 However, I was a bit shocked when I first heard this setup. With this combo fresh out of the box, some recordings sounded a bit muffled and veiled and there wasn't that much difference between the HDVD 800 and my FiiO E17 when using the standard HD 800 cable. But when I switched to the balanced cable, the improvement was massive and the biggest transformation I've yet heard in headphone sound due to switching cable. In my opinion, if you are using the HDVD 800 and HD 800, using a balanced cable, even though it may be considered expensive, is a must if you want to get optimum performance from this rig.

 I realized that since my HDVD 800 and new cable were straight out of the box, the muffled sound was probably related to the DAC/Amp and cable needing burn-in time, so I've been feeding them music for about 10-15 hours now and the sound seems to have opened up to reveal a less muffled, clearer sound. Though the sound of the combo will probably change as burn-in continues, the general sound of it still sounds ever-so slightly muffled and perhaps lacking in treble definition at times and my opinion on that may change as I listen to more recordings (I prefer ALAC format), but I would love to hear if any of you have experienced any difference in sound with this combo since using it new and fresh out of the box.
  
 In terms of USB cables, I'm currently using a standard computer one that I used to use for my printer and is around ten years old. I want to upgrade to a new USB cable and was wondering what anyone seeing this who uses the HD 800 and HDVD 800 with the Sennheiser balanced cable have found to be a decent USB cable for that enhances and opens up the sound of this combo in a more natural, neutral sounding way. I don't want to colour the HDVD 800's sound. My preference is for a neutral sounding rig that presents the audio as intended to be heard and I have been thinking about getting an Audioquest or Wireworld USB cable for now, but I'm open to more options. Any thoughts?


----------



## Zoom25

Why not try the Audioquest Forest to begin with? That's what I started with and am currently using. It's like 30 bucks top.


----------



## akhyar

I'm using Wireworld USB red (forgot the model name) to connect from my MBP to HA-1 amp.
As the above poster suggested, try with the entry level model first.
Make your way up from there if needed ne


----------



## Caguioa

cankin said:


> I have not heard M8 but I'm using O2 ODAC combo from JDS Labs and I love it.


 
 amn i missing anything if i use this amp?
  
 also how do i use this with hd800 for my video game console, i wanna use this for pc gaming,movies,music,console gaming,
 i just have a laptop with soundblaster i am not sure, but it only has 3.5mm drive for regular headphones


----------



## Sorrodje

caguioa said:


> amn i missing anything if i use this amp?
> 
> also how do i use this with hd800 for my video game console, i wanna use this for pc gaming,movies,music,console gaming,
> i just have a laptop with soundblaster i am not sure, but it only has 3.5mm drive for regular headphones


 
  
 I've just purchased an O2/ODac combo and I'll receive it at the end of the week. If you can wait a bit I'll be able to give some impressions against my current rig next week. That been said , you can find many opinions here or there about the HD800 O2/ODAC pairing.
  
 I've no game console so I can't help.


----------



## pearljam50000

sorrodje said:


> I've just purchased an O2/ODac combo and I'll receive it at the end of the week. If you can wait a bit I'll be able to give some impressions against my current rig next week. That been said , you can find many opinions here or there about the HD800 O2/ODAC pairing.
> 
> I've no game console so I can't help.



While there are many opinions, many of them are contradicting, so every opinion helps ^_^


----------



## Sorrodje

pearljam50000 said:


> While there are many opinions, many of them are contradicting, so every opinion helps ^_^


 
  
 I'll add mine to ambient noise...


----------



## Eee Pee

02 and Sonnet comparo will be fun.  I'll be waiting.
  
 I have a Schiit Mjolnir as well as the first Sonnet.  That's fun.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

caguioa said:


> amn i missing anything if i use this amp?
> 
> also how do i use this with hd800 for my video game console, i wanna use this for pc gaming,movies,music,console gaming,
> i just have a laptop with soundblaster i am not sure, but it only has 3.5mm drive for regular headphones


I'm temporarily using my new HD800 with an iPod Touch 5G (much better than the other iPods' DACs, but obviously behind the ODAC) and my JDS Labs O2 while I repair my computer. It honestly sounds fantastic compared to an HD650 out of a Teac amp, and my HE-400 with Dragonfly and O2.

I can tell that there is some untapped potential, but it's not something that I would get upset over. I think the O2/ODAC combo will do fine and probably surprise you with how great it will pair with the HD800 for the price.


----------



## MickeyVee

I think Purrin was the one who said that you can make the Woo WA6 sound pretty much like anything you want. It really is a chameleon and highly dependant on the tubes you feed it. Right now I'm running with the Sophia Prince 274B Mesh rectifier and 1977 Sylvania JAN 6SN7 WGTA driver tubes and it's pretty incredible with the HD800.  A touch on the dark side with no sibilance at all, great bass but could be a little tighter and delicious mids that put you next to the artist.
  
 The HD800 truly reflect your source and DAC and I think I've found a great combo that works for me. Naim DAC V1 and the Woo with the afore mentioned tubes.  I'll take my Rega DAC out of my main AV system and give it a shot. I fully expect that it will be just as delicious based on previous experiments.
  
 I think the Rega and Woo WA6 tailored with the right tubes is a fabulous mid end system for the HD800. 
  
 My next step with be the HDVD800 (or the HDVA600) balanced to get some SS magic though the Naim DAC-V1 directly into the HD800 is not too bad.. Jude mentioned this in his winter buyers guide.
  
 Listening to everything from Sinatra, Adele, Patricia Barber, Nightwish, Supertramp, Lindesy Stirling, BTO, ATB to Deadmou5 and loving it all on the HD800!


----------



## Sorrodje

eee pee said:


> 02 and Sonnet comparo will be fun.  I'll be waiting.


 
  
 I bought this Odac/O2 combo for testing indeed. More for headphones reviewing but I'll be able to compare with the Sonett and the Metrum. That been said, I usually need a lot of time to compare amps & dacs. Differences aren't as obvious than between headphones. So don't expect quick impressions 
  
@MickeyVee : Glad to read you'll give a serious listen to the Rega. I used this dac during 6 month and was happy with it . it seems the rega gels well with the HD800 and I've said that when I swapped from the Rega to the Metrum, i felt I gained a lot but I lost something too. I won't give more impressions before you give yours but i'm very interested to read you about this dac.


----------



## MickeyVee

I actually had the Rega DAC in my HP system for a while but not with the WA6.  It fits the bill quite nicely with a warmish tone, good bass and detail retrieval and never sounding harsh.  I moved the Rega to my man in AV system for 2 channel listening when I got the Naim DAC-V1. I would say that the two are pretty much on par with the Naim offering more features such as the remote and tie into iTunes when connected via USB and the onboard HP amp which is decent but not spectacular.
  
 The pain for me is the Rega power cord with the butterfly connection.  Need to get another power cord as it is neatly cable tied in my main system.  I find the Rega a good match with the HD800 due to it's warmth and no sibilance and good bass and nice detail.  
  
 I have no problems recommending the Rega or a used DLIII if you're looking for the above mentioned attributes.  It's a great mid-entry level DAC but definitely not the absolute truth in reproduction.  I find them very musical versus some of the sterile DAC's I have tried. Good enough for me  YMMV  -  I'm pretty much done with DAC's for now.
  
 Now off to my AQ dealer to get another power cord so I can experiment some more.
  
  
 Quote:


sorrodje said:


> @MickeyVee : Glad to read you'll give a serious listen to the Rega. I used this dac during 6 month and was happy with it . it seems the rega gels well with the HD800 and I've said that when I swapped from the Rega to the Metrum, i felt I gained a lot but I lost something too. I won't give more impressions before you give yours but i'm very interested to read you about this dac.


----------



## Sorrodje

Yeah.  The rega is indeed a bit colored IMO, especially in the mids and this coloration matches well with the HD800. I previously used the Usb input of the REGA and after a while I bought an external USB>>SPDIF transport ( the Poppulse CM6631) . It seems the sound improved ( more dynamics) noticeably. I can't be affirmative but it seems I heard a real improvement.


----------



## Acapella11

Hey, Enjoying my HD800 a lot and consider to feed it with a delicious ss amp. Have you tried and possibly compared even Byston BHA-1 and Audio-gd Master 9?


----------



## Windsor

I highly recommend the HDVD 800 with the balanced cable!


----------



## pearljam50000

Hi, is anyone not buying the HD800 because it's 5 years old and you are affraid that a new Sennheiser flagship will be out soon, and that it will be better than HD800?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

pearljam50000 said:


> Hi, is anyone not buying the HD800 because it's 5 years old and you are affraid that a new Sennheiser flagship will be out soon, and that it will be better than HD800?


 
  
 Is anyone out there not buying CD's because they think that Redbook sounds crappy and a new format will take over and be better than it?
  
 (Sorry, I'm in a cheeky mood tonight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
  
 Me personally, no.  The HD800's sound great and it is easy to get caught up in internet hype.  Yes, there may be something better (most certainly) in the pipeline but if you live your life waiting for the next best thing, you'll never live.
  
 When the HD900's (or whatever) hit the market the talk of the HD1K's will already be in talks. Look at old HD800 talk and the speculation was there from day one.  Who knows.  Listen and buy what sounds good to you and forget the rest: treat buying headphones like buying speakers, not like buying a video card.


----------



## 62ohm

pearljam50000 said:


> Hi, is anyone not buying the HD800 because it's 5 years old and you are affraid that a new Sennheiser flagship will be out soon, and that it will be better than HD800?


 
  
 Even if a successor is released, the head-fi market is not like the smartphone market where a successor of a flagship is priced the same as the previous flagship's price, and the obsolete one is priced much less.
  
 Here, after a new flagship is released, it will cost much more than the previous flagship, and the old one kept its original price. So I wouldn't really worry about a new flagship, because even if a successor is about to be released (which I doubt), it's going to cost much more anyway.


----------



## Zoom25

acapella11 said:


> Hey, Enjoying my HD800 a lot and consider to feed it with a delicious ss amp. Have you tried and possibly compared even Byston BHA-1 and Audio-gd Master 9?


 
 I'd be interested in a BHA-1 vs HDVD600 comparison for HD800.


----------



## soundeffect

Not a flagship, but not the case of he500 and he560. He560 goes up and he500 went down in price.


----------



## No_One411

soundeffect said:


> Not a flagship, but not the case of he500 and he560. He560 goes up and he500 went down in price.


 
 To be fair, I believe that Hifiman is trying to phase out the HE-500 in favor of the HE-560, so the price drop is reasonable. 
  
 In Sennheiser's case though, given how the flagship will be electrostatic, I think the HD-800 price will remain fairly stable.


----------



## magiccabbage

no_one411 said:


> To be fair, I believe that Hifiman is trying to phase out the HE-500 in favor of the HE-560, so the price drop is reasonable.
> 
> In Sennheiser's case though, given how the flagship will be electrostatic, I think the HD-800 price will remain fairly stable.


 
 I hope they don't release an electro static headphone. I don't want to have to buy another amp


----------



## PleasantSounds

magiccabbage said:


> I hope they don't release an electro static headphone. I don't want to have to buy another amp


 
  
 I don't even want to have to buy another headphone...


----------



## Canadian411

zoom25 said:


> I'd be interested in a BHA-1 vs HDVD600 comparison for HD800.


 
  
 Anyone knows if HDVD600/800 is real balanced amp from end to end ? not like fake BHA-1 balanced ? or does it matter in terms of Sound Quality ?


----------



## Maxvla

I wouldn't call the BHA-1 fake balanced. The main benefit of balancing is still quite present.


----------



## MattTCG

Interesting with all this talk about a new release from Sennheiser. Just speculation I guess. It's difficult in todays tech world for things such as this not to "leak" at some point. So at this point, I'll say this is all just a guess and wishful thinking. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## Hopup

Hi
  
 I would be able to buy Lehmann Audio Rhinelander for very cheap price. Is it a good amp? Can anyone recommend it for hd800?
  
 Thanks for your answers


----------



## soundeffect

no_one411 said:


> To be fair, I believe that Hifiman is trying to phase out the HE-500 in favor of the HE-560, so the price drop is reasonable.
> 
> In Sennheiser's case though, given how the flagship will be electrostatic, I think the HD-800 price will remain fairly stable.




My point is price do drop. Look at LCD-2, now the rosewood can be had below $1000 even sennheiser hd650/600 which also used to be able to be bought cheaper until they were price regulated. I agree that I don't think hd800 price will be greatly effected, but headphones pricing doesn't get affected by new one? I don't know about that.

I hope sennheiser do come out with an electrostat, just hope that it will be affordable or atleast around the price of $1500. Headphones prices have been higher lately.


----------



## No_One411

soundeffect said:


> My point is price do drop. Look at LCD-2, now the rosewood can be had below $1000 even sennheiser hd650/600 which also used to be able to be bought cheaper until they were price regulated. I agree that I don't think hd800 price will be greatly effected, but headphones pricing doesn't get affected by new one? I don't know about that.
> 
> I hope sennheiser do come out with an electrostat, just hope that it will be affordable or atleast around the price of $1500. Headphones prices have been higher lately.


 
 That is true...
  
 There are probably other factors though. If you look at the price of the used market for the Beyerdynamic T1 and T5p, you can see prices that are almost less the half the MSRP. 
  
 At this point, nobody can really say for sure what will happen to the price of the HD-800 when and if the new flagship comes out.


----------



## Mahdi8

Where can we buy lcd2 rosewood for below $1000? I know someone is looking for one



soundeffect said:


> My point is price do drop. Look at LCD-2, now the rosewood can be had below $1000 even sennheiser hd650/600 which also used to be able to be bought cheaper until they were price regulated. I agree that I don't think hd800 price will be greatly effected, but headphones pricing doesn't get affected by new one? I don't know about that.
> 
> I hope sennheiser do come out with an electrostat, just hope that it will be affordable or atleast around the price of $1500. Headphones prices have been higher lately.


----------



## kothganesh

mahdi8 said:


> Where can we buy lcd2 rosewood for below $1000? I know someone is looking for one


 
 check the FS forums. I saw two today.


----------



## Hopup

I dont want to spam but has anyone used Lehman Audio Rhinelander amplifier for hd800 in here?


----------



## rgs9200m

Even though I've had mixed results with my HD800 for years now, it's superb with my Oppo 105D and my Midnight Special DVD set and my Pinnacle amp.
 Everything a headphone should be. All is falling into place.
 Bless the HD800.


----------



## Bellasperson

Pinnacle and 105D. That is way out on the end of the curve if not the actual end.  Have you listened to LCD3s to see how they compare to the HD800 with this set up? I suspect you have identified the solution for the HD800. Match the best phones with the best amp and best source and you will be happy.  Everyone else will struggle. I just sold my 800s and purchased a pair of 700s.  Needed a break from the struggle.


----------



## RUMAY408

magiccabbage said:


> I hope they don't release an electro static headphone. I don't want to have to buy another amp


 
 I can't wait to hear your take on the DNA Stratus. The HD800 is so addictive. Balanced cables and an upgraded amp are in the future.


----------



## pearljam50000

bellasperson said:


> Pinnacle and 105D. That is way out on the end of the curve if not the actual end.  Have you listened to LCD3s to see how they compare to the HD800 with this set up? I suspect you have identified the solution for the HD800. Match the best phones with the best amp and best source and you will be happy.  Everyone else will struggle. I just sold my 800s and purchased a pair of 700s.  Needed a break from the struggle.



Isnt the HD700 a major downgrade?


----------



## MickeyVee

As a previous owner of the HD700, I wouldn't say that it's a major downgrade.  I can see the attraction of _less needy_ source & amplification requirements and the HD700 does have a certain fun factor. There at times I wish I stopped at the HD700 Bifrost Uber / Lyr combo but am having fun with the HD800.  Sorry for my wallet. It's all a matter of taste and what personally suits you.  YMMV.
  
 Quote:


pearljam50000 said:


> Isnt the HD700 a major downgrade?


----------



## magiccabbage

rumay408 said:


> I can't wait to hear your take on the DNA Stratus. The HD800 is so addictive. Balanced cables and an upgraded amp are in the future.


 
 I will do a big write up when i get it - cant wait.


----------



## Bellasperson

In the context of measurable performance the HD700 is a big step down.  In terms of listening enjoyment it is a step up.  I liked everthing about my HD800s except I found them difficult to listen to for extended periods of time. They revealed so much background imperfection in recordings that I found it distracting. I found listening to my HD650s much more enjoyable. I think of the HD 700s as a having some of the positive attributes of the 650s and some of the 800s but being different from both. Note that I said I needed a break from my 800s.  I think I will own another pair one day but for the time being I am going to listen to the 700s.
  
 I also have a pair of LCD3f.  I love the sound.  They weigh a lot.  After about hour two they start to be noticable.  In the end its about picking your point of compromise.


----------



## fccn75

I'm curious what your HD800 serial begins with i.e. 20XXX, 30XXX, etc.  Because my pair exhibits the typical 6Khz peak with s/n 30XXX and do not find it objectionable with the relevance of detail retrieval.  Both my Fostex TH900 and HE-6 offers brighter highs.
  
 I was following the HD800 thread for a long time before deciding to get one and see what all the fuss is about.  It is extremely convincing when a good recording is played rendering an image that is second to none.  This is one of the most extraordinary achievement in HP.  However, as far as detail retrieval, the pair I have is on par albeit slightly less than the two aforementioned hp.


----------



## BournePerfect

I've said it before and I'll say it again, from my experience anyway: all stock HD800s sound the same. I've owned/own iirc 14xxx, 17xxx, 19xxx, 23xxx, 25xxx. Found no differences between any of them worth mentioning, aside from obvious gear changes. Nice to know Senn has their flagship qc down pat-as opposed to say, Beyer's T1.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## SP Wild

Its kinda obvious too with the high resolution graphs that sennheiser supplies that all hd800s are identical.


----------



## LugBug1

fccn75 said:


> I'm curious what your HD800 serial begins with i.e. 20XXX, 30XXX, etc.  Because my pair exhibits the typical 6Khz peak with s/n 30XXX and do not find it objectionable with the relevance of detail retrieval.  Both my Fostex TH900 and HE-6 offers brighter highs.
> 
> I was following the HD800 thread for a long time before deciding to get one and see what all the fuss is about.  It is extremely convincing when a good recording is played rendering an image that is second to none.  This is one of the most extraordinary achievement in HP.  However, as far as detail retrieval, the pair I have is on par albeit slightly less than the two aforementioned hp.


 
 This is a perfect case in reference to what could be described as 'our unique hearing' and that we all different. I also find a lot of other quality headphones brighter than the HD800. Different peaks affect different folks... But an irritating peak (for some) doesn't mean that the HD800 is the brightest hp out there.


----------



## pearljam50000

What about this?
http://www.head-fi.org/t/646871/new-hd-800-very-different-than-the-old-hd-800


----------



## Moonhead

Ive head 16x number HD800 and owner one 27x, could not tell any difference at all.


----------



## wink

Quote:SP Wild 





> Its kinda obvious too with the high resolution graphs that sennheiser supplies that all hd800s are identical.


 
  
 Check the last few pages of this thread......
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/433059/sennheiser-hd800-certificate-for-frequency-response-arrived/555#post_10834596


----------



## Hopup

Is the Burson ha-160D/Conductor sl good match with hd800? What about WA7 fireflies? Is there something better that I should consider buying when my price range is 800-1600$ for both amp and dac?


----------



## Moonhead

hopup said:


> Is the Burson ha-160D/Conductor sl good match with hd800? What about WA7 fireflies? Is there something better that I should consider buying when my price range is 800-1600$ for both amp and dac?


 
 You should differently consider one Questyle cma800r, thats one brilliant amp if you love everything HD800 offers.


----------



## frankrondaniel

hopup said:


> Is the Burson ha-160D/Conductor sl good match with hd800? What about WA7 fireflies? Is there something better that I should consider buying when my price range is 800-1600$ for both amp and dac?




Regarding the Woo WA7 Fireflies, I'm not totally happy with the pairing with the HD800s. It doesn't provide enough low-end support for my tastes. Of course others may hear it differently!


----------



## MickeyVee

Pretty much my impression when I had it - didn't have it for long 
 Quote:


frankrondaniel said:


> Regarding the Woo WA7 Fireflies, I'm not totally happy with the pairing with the HD800s. It doesn't provide enough low-end support for my tastes. Of course others may hear it differently!


----------



## frankrondaniel

I see that you have the WA6 - do you find it significantly better than the WA7?


----------



## MickeyVee

Better, yes, with the right tubes.  Significantly, not really.  It's richer, fuller with better bass maybe sacrificing some high end detail.  For me, it works well and it's a keeper.   Going to take a look at the HDVD800 next.  Want some tube and SS goodness before I can call it done for now.
  
 Quote:


frankrondaniel said:


> I see that you have the WA6 - do you find it significantly better than the WA7?


----------



## Hopup

moonhead said:


> You should differently consider one Questyle cma800r, thats one brilliant amp if you love everything HD800 offers.


 

 That amplifier seems really nice but I can see it doesn't have built in dac in it so I guess I would have to buy pretty expensive dac for the amp :S.


----------



## PleasantSounds

hopup said:


> That amplifier seems really nice but I can see it doesn't have built in dac in it so I guess I would have to buy pretty expensive dac for the amp :S.


 
  
 The Dangerous Music Source may fit your bill.


----------



## Frank I

I been listening quite a bit lately with the Hd8oo an Nordost Heimdall with the new Viva Egoista ampI am reviewing on headphpone.guru . I also have the V281 from Violectric in here and they sound very nice on them as well.


----------



## Moonhead

hopup said:


> That amplifier seems really nice but I can see it doesn't have built in dac in it so I guess I would have to buy pretty expensive dac for the amp :S.




Get the Questyle first then a dac, the AMP is more important that dac, IMO.
I had the Questyle running with ODAC you Can go with that for starters.
I Never did get another dac because there where nothing missing, mate because the Questyle was a Grant match for hd800, miles ahead from Schiit Mjolnir i had before.


----------



## BleaK

moonhead said:


> Get the Questyle first then a dac, the AMP is more important that dac, IMO.
> I had the Questyle running with ODAC you Can go with that for starters.
> I Never did get another dac because there where nothing missing, mate because the Questyle was a Grant match for hd800, miles ahead from Schiit Mjolnir i had before.


 
 Agree. The Questyle is a great amp for HD800. Very detailed with nice imaging and soundstage, yet smooth up top and have great bass slam.


----------



## pearljam50000

Is the abyss really worth 3x of the HD800 price?


----------



## longbowbbs

pearljam50000 said:


> Is the abyss really worth 3x of the HD800 price?


 
 welcome to the last 2%......Price escalates right at the very tip of the summit.
  
 And of course not everyone agrees it is better. Also an occupational hazard for the Audiophile.....


----------



## Moonhead

I have not listen to Abyss, but is there any headphones worth there price, I doubt it. 
But then again if you want a top tier headphone for your money, HD800 cant be beaten, IMO.


----------



## koiloco

pearljam50000 said:


> Is the abyss really worth 3x of the HD800 price?


 
 IMO, nope.  I also personally don't think the abyss is clearly better than HD800 while Stax 009 is.
 As always, there're people who would disagree.


----------



## Justin_Time

pearljam50000 said:


> Is the abyss really worth 3x of the HD800 price?


 
 Is the Abyss better than the HD800? No doubt.  Is it three times better?  Absolutely not! 

  

 But remember that most of the headphones discussed here are way past the point of diminishing return in terms of price relative to performance--average folks use crappy $50 headphones and the best quality to price ratio is probably way back there around $200-$300 (just a wild guess).

  
 If we give most of the excellent headphones discussed here on HeadFi a rating of 90 points or higher (out of 100) in terms of sound, a small improvement from 90 to 95 points (roughly a 5% improvement) with easily double the price from say $500 to $1000.
  
 As we climb higher still into the rarified air of the best headphones, a small improvement of a few percentage points from say 95 to 97 points will likely double the price again to near $2,000.  Let's just assume that the Abyss is near perfection at 98-99 points, then its price will easily double again or triple for an even smaller improvement.
  

 That's the way it is with everything near the very top-end of quality and far beyond the point of diminishing return.  I am not saying that a few percent improvement is not important--obviously it is to many of us, myself included--but at the highest level of performance, the improvement will be necessarily smaller and the cost differential disproportionately larger.
  

 That is why I look at the current trend of price escalation for headphone (and IEM) gears with a certain amount of apprehension.  I have witnessed the disppearance of High-End Audio for average Audiophiles in the past decade, victim of a mindless pursuit of perfection which inflated the costs of High-End Stereo completely out of reach of all but multi-millionaires and billionaires:  $30,000 turntable, $5,000 cartridge, $50,000 amp and $100,000 speakers, which also need $10,000 cables.  Yikes!  The vast majority of audiophiles who supported High-End Stereo for over 30 years were left out in the cold. 

  

 Hopefully, I am counting on the very different structure of the business these days to prevent such calamity from happening as small companies with excellent and modestly-priced products can make a breakthrough far easier than it used to be. But I am not holding my breath.

  

 So back to your questions:  Is the Abyss at a whopping $5,000 better than the $1,600 HD800? Absolutely.  Is it three times better?  Absolutely not!  Just like the $1,600 HD800 is not twice (if at all) better than the $800 HE-560 or 2.5 times better than the Grado SR325i. Not even close! 

  

 But I do feel fortunate I can still (barely) afford cans like the Abyss or Stax SR-009 today. Who knows. Five to ten years from now, they may be considered real bargains.


----------



## immtbiker

moonhead said:


> ...but is there any headphones worth there price, I doubt it...


 
  
 I think that the Sennheiser HD600's were well worth their asking price during their run.
  
 Some headphones are worth their attainable price. The cost of materials and R&D, as well
 as their musical presentation can make the price valid.
  
 Were the R10's and the HE-90's worth $4-8K? Not likely. But if you have the money to spend, then the
 other fun part of this hobby, "the thrill of the chase" can be quite satisfying.
  
 Also, any headphone that holds or grows it's value, is worth it's money. You get to enjoy them, and then get most or all
 of your money back.
  
 Is a $3000 1960's restored GTO worth $40,000? Well…that's another thread!


----------



## magiccabbage

The Abyss is just far too ugly. My god the thing is horrible!


----------



## Moonhead

immtbiker said:


> I think that the Sennheiser HD600's were well worth their asking price during their run.
> 
> Some headphones are worth their attainable price. The cost of materials and R&D, as well
> as their musical presentation can make the price valid.
> ...




Good point Biker, sadly i Never listen to HD600 or HD650 for that matter, but i guess you could be right with the old school Sennheiser. 
I forgot to point out that many headphones are not worth there asking price if you look at it as an overall value with the poor craftsmanship and cheap cables many companies offer.


----------



## pearljam50000

Amazing post "Justin_Time" 
Thanks!


----------



## nigeljames

Does the Abyss have a similar character as the HD800's?
  
 Unless you compare 2 phones with a similar character I don't know how anyone could possibly say one phone is better than another.
  
 Preferable maybe but better...


----------



## Justin_Time

pearljam50000 said:


> Amazing post "Justin_Time"
> Thanks!


 
 THANKS!!!
  
 Just rumination of an old curmudgeon.


----------



## Justin_Time

magiccabbage said:


> The Abyss is just far too ugly. My god the thing is horrible!


 
 I laughed so hard my ribs hurt!
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Jodet

magiccabbage said:


> The Abyss is just far too ugly. My god the thing is horrible!


 
  
 Well, maybe some people like their headphones to look like medieval torture devices.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

jodet said:


> Well, maybe some people like their headphones to look like medieval torture devices.


People that listen to black metal ?


----------



## bearFNF

toddthemetalgod said:


> People that listen to black metal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 S&M-Fi???  heh,
  
 I thought the Abyss were ~ok_~_, but not worth the $$$


----------



## James-uk

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/JPSLabsAbyssAB1266.pdf

How these things can even be mentioned in the same sentence as the hd800 is beyond me. They are not even playing the same sport never mind in the same league!


----------



## magiccabbage

justin_time said:


> I laughed so hard my ribs hurt!
> 
> Thanks!


 
  


jodet said:


> Well, maybe some people like their headphones to look like medieval torture devices.


 
 Its even uglier than the AKG K1000 and that's saying something!


----------



## Jodet

magiccabbage said:


> Its even uglier than the AKG K1000 and that's saying something!


 
  
 I'm waiting for the 'pear of agony' matching DAC.


----------



## pearljam50000

james-uk said:


> http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/JPSLabsAbyssAB1266.pdf
> 
> How these things can even be mentioned in the same sentence as the hd800 is beyond me. They are not even playing the same sport never mind in the same league!


 
 I'm sorry, but i don't understand what the graphs say.
 Did you mean the Abyss is much better or  vice versa?


----------



## BournePerfect

james-uk said:


> http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/JPSLabsAbyssAB1266.pdf
> 
> How these things can even be mentioned in the same sentence as the hd800 is beyond me. They are not even playing the same sport never mind in the same league!


 
  
 Idk.
  
 I didn't hear a thing reading those charts.


----------



## Hopup

I heard that Abyss sounds very similar to lcd 3.


----------



## James-uk

pearljam50000 said:


> I'm sorry, but i don't understand what the graphs say.
> Did you mean the Abyss is much better or  vice versa?




They say distortion/ poor frequency response / poor diaphragm control. Basically the abyss is technically a pile of poo. Hd800= engineering masterpiece.


----------



## Hopup

So I think Abyss and hd800 are very much different headphones.


----------



## James-uk

bourneperfect said:


> Idk.
> 
> I didn't hear a thing reading those charts.




I did. I heard coloration!!!!!! That must sound nice to some and if it does buy a HD800 and use eq to make it sound coloured like the abyss. It's a much cheaper alternative.


----------



## pearljam50000

I hate coloration, so i guess the HD800 is still the best option for neutral and clear sound


----------



## James-uk

pearljam50000 said:


> I hate coloration, so i guess the HD800 is still the best option for neutral and clear sound




Without doubt. SR-009 and HE6 are the only other productions phones that can hold a candle to the HD800.


----------



## chengka7

james-uk said:


> They say distortion/ poor frequency response / poor diaphragm control. Basically the abyss is technically a pile of poo. Hd800= engineering masterpiece.


 
 I do not understand why people always attack Abyss, and always say something that is from other people's opinions. I agree that HD800 is a masterpiece, but Abyss is also one of the best headphones I have ever heard. At this level, there is no point to defend or attack something. If it is not your cup of tea then just leave it, or give us a neutral comparison, not something like this.


----------



## James-uk

chengka7 said:


> I do not understand why people always attack Abyss, and always say something that is from other people's opinions. I agree that HD800 is a masterpiece, but Abyss is also one of the best headphones I have ever heard. At this level, there is no point to defend or attack something. If it is not your cup of tea then just leave it, or give us a neutral comparison, not something like this.




It costs a lot of money so it has created it's own soap box . It deserves scrutiny . Oh and at this level there is every reason to defend or attack. Someone may well be reading this or that deciding on departing with a lot of HARD EARNED money. Any information to help them is important so it ALL matters!


----------



## chengka7

lol, just as you said it deserves scrutiny, but I did not see you post anything helpful here.


----------



## James-uk

chengka7 said:


> lol, just as you said it deserves scrutiny, but I did not see you post anything helpful here.


 
I posted some objective graphs that showcase nothing special . What did you post?


----------



## chengka7

sigh, you really understand that graph??? whatever, I do not want to continue this conversation here. It is HD800 thread.


----------



## James-uk

chengka7 said:
			
		

> .sigh, you really understand that graph??? whatever, I do not want to continue this conversation here. It is HD800 thread.



Yes I understand that graph. So should you. If you are interested in this hobby go and learn!!!!!


----------



## pearljam50000

Does anyone here own both the HD800 and the Abyss and can shed some light on the subject?


----------



## James-uk

james-uk said:


> Yes I understand that graph. So should you. If you are interested in this hobby go and learn!!!!!


----------



## 62ohm

There was once someone who compared some TOTL headphones based on their graphs, and the Abyss did not pass as a 'true flagship' according to his comparison, whereas the HD800 did.
  
 https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1wi8M-HSeK0JF33P-5ypydQjQ4OshRQhvWM0IX2h0NQ8/edit?pli=1#slide=id.p


----------



## chengka7

OKOK, I will learn...haha, I certainly never understand this industry enough.


----------



## James-uk

chengka7 said:


> OKOK, I will learn...haha, I certainly never understand this industry enough.



One thing I think is very important to remember in this hobby is that music is art but sound reproduction is science. I know which headphone I want to listen to to hear the musical art as intended.


----------



## koiloco

james-uk said:


> One thing I think is very important to remember in this hobby is that music is art *but sound reproduction is science*. I know which headphone I want to listen to to hear the musical art as intended.


 
 That's where science ends.  Our ears are not at all the same and response differently to frequency ranges.  So unless, you could claim that your hearing is flat, the saying of hearing music as intended is getting really old.  Well, at least, for me it is already for over 20 years.  If we are all robots with calibrated hearing, it might make some sense but obviously, it's not the case here. This is why some of us enjoy the abyss while others prefer HD800 and even Beats HPs  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  Let's stop throwing technicality at each other as the standard.  
 I do agree with you about the abyss not being better than HD800 though.  I wouldn't pay more than $1500 for that HP.  $4000?  Forget it.  I'll take stax 009 any day.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

james-uk said:


> One thing I think is very important to remember in this hobby is that music is art but sound reproduction is science. I know which headphone I want to listen to to hear the musical art as intended.


Be careful saying things like this. I'm just warming you ahead of time. There are plenty of people that like coloured, more unnatural sound... some of which actually deny the fact that it isn't as natural. They let their beliefs dictate what they do, and claim audio science is hogwash. They think that we can't measure every part of the audible spectrum (which doesn't really make sense as we created these devices, as well as more complex and perfect devices like hearing aids).

Sorry for ranting, but do take this seriously.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

koiloco said:


> That's where science ends.  Our ears are not at all the same and response differently to frequency ranges.  So unless, you could claim that your hearing is flat, the saying of hearing music as intended is getting really old.  Well, at least, for me it is already for over 20 years.  If we are all robots with calibrated hearing, it might make some sense but obviously, it's not the case here. This is why some of us enjoy the abyss while others prefer HD800 and even Beats HPs   .  Let's stop throwing technicality at each other as the standard.
> I do agree with you about the abyss not being better than HD800 though.  I wouldn't pay more than $1500 for that HP.  $4000?  Forget it.  I'll take stax 009 any day.


Honestly hearing doesn't make as much of a difference as people say. Really, most people's hearing only has a couple of troughs or peaks that are 1-2 kHz wide, and only 1-2 dB higher/lower (my hearing is like this, which isn't perfect and cuts off at 14 kHz). Then again, between 200 Hz - 8 KHz my hearing measures perfectly as tested by an audiologist. Ear and head shape are much more significant, which might be why some people think the HD800 doesn't image well.

This is likely why people perceive the HD800's as bright whereas other people perceive them as smooth. Which explains why some people will like the LCD-3 or others better than the HD800. But these differences definitely aren't enough to consider Beats for example to sound better than the HD800, that's purely subjective .

My point is, most people's hearing is much more flat than say a flat headphone. While this does translate to slight differences in perception, it doesn't change as much as subjectivists state. It doesn't change that the HD800 is very close to neutral.


----------



## koiloco

toddthemetalgod said:


> Honestly hearing doesn't make as much of a difference as people say. Really, most people's hearing only has a couple of troughs or peaks that are 1-2 kHz wide, and only 1-2 dB higher/lower (my hearing is like this, which isn't perfect and cuts off at 14 kHz). Then again, between 200 Hz - 8 KHz my hearing measures perfectly as tested by an audiologist. Ear and head shape are much more significant, which might be why some people think the HD800 doesn't image well.
> 
> This is likely why people perceive the HD800's as bright whereas other people perceive them as smooth. Which explains why some people will like the LCD-3 or others better than the HD800. *But these differences definitely aren't enough to consider Beats for example to sound better than the HD800, that's purely subjective
> 
> ...


 
 For some people, there're definitely enough differences.  Regarding the term "hearing", for me, it would include everything that affects the final audio reception; ear/head shape, ear wax, subjectivity and other things...all included


----------



## BournePerfect

You're absolutely right-we can't measure everything we hear.  Only a fool would believe auditory science has reached it's peak. Word of warning to those who can think for themselves. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Either way this isn't the place for this discussion, obviously. The Sound Science forum exists for a reason. _So the Odac/O2 guys can justify their tinnitus by saving a buck._


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

koiloco said:


> For some people, there're definitely enough differences.  Regarding the term "hearing", for me, it would include everything that affects the final audio reception; ear/head shape, ear wax, subjectivity and other things...all included


It definitely does make a difference, but preference is preference. 1-2 dB in a couple of areas isn't going to radically change hearing. You'd probably barely notice if someone EQ'd your headphones that much. Of course it does affect which headphones we choose, I'm not claiming it doesn't. But neutral is still neutral, both the HD800 and LCD-3 are considered neutral even though they are slightly difference in response... much like the differences in our hearing .


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

bourneperfect said:


> You're absolutely right-we can't measure everything we hear.  Only a fool would believe auditory science has reached it's peak. Word of warning to those who can think for themselves. :rolleyes:
> 
> Either way this isn't the place for this discussion, obviously. The Sound Science forum exists for a reason. _So the Odac/O2 guys can justify their tinnitus by saving a buck._


Yeah sorry, I just read a thread I got annoyed by but didn't want to dig it up and cause arguments. Of course, being a stubborn fool I couldn't stop myself .

Also, I own an O2 because it's a good cheap amp.. not because I think it's the god amp .


----------



## pearljam50000

I'm sure people at the abyss thread would claim the abyss is better than HD800 ,in any case i read it has much more bass than HD800, so i'm sure i would not like it.


----------



## kothganesh

james-uk said:


> Without doubt. SR-009 and HE6 are the only other productions phones that can hold a candle to the HD800.


 
 IMO, more the SR 009 than the HE 6.


----------



## punit

kothganesh said:


> IMO, more the SR 009 than the HE 6.


 

 You haven't yet heard HE 6 driven to its full potential 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . Have you zeroed in for an amp for them ?


----------



## kothganesh

punit said:


> You haven't yet heard HE 6 driven to its full potential
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Punit, you need to come to Chennai to listen to the SR 009. But I will not digress. In terms of an amp for the 6, I am driven to despair between the parasound series (probably not), Audio gd, Odyssey and the Ragnarok.


----------



## preproman

kothganesh said:


> IMO, more the SR 009 than the HE 6.


 
  
 Not so fast my friend (in the words of Lee Corso).  
  
 Both Headphones (HD800 and HE-6) deserves a great amount of effort and unfortunately a little cash to get them to the point where they can be enjoyed.  When you get there, both headphones are pretty damn good at what they do.


----------



## Priidik

toddthemetalgod said:


> Ear and head shape are much more significant, which might be why some people think the HD800 doesn't image well.


 
 I have been thinking the same thing. The HD800 is like its molded over a certain ear/head shape 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Still super comfy to everyone.


----------



## kothganesh

preproman said:


> Not so fast my friend (in the words of Lee Corso).
> 
> Both Headphones (HD800 and HE-6) deserves a great amount of effort and unfortunately a little cash to get them to the point where they can be enjoyed.  When you get there, both headphones are pretty damn good at what they do.


 
 Prep, that's fair. I am using the KGSShv with the Stax so I'm probably almost "there". With the 6, I'm driving myself nuts in my quest for an amp. The more I look at Odyssey and read about it, the more I like it. Will give me a good opportunity to replace my JVC. I'll need a pre-amp as well. OR, I'm hoping the Ragnarok is the Holy Grail for both the 800 and the 6.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

priidik said:


> I have been thinking the same thing. The HD800 is like its molded over a certain ear/head shape
> Still super comfy to everyone.


Yeah that's one of the faults that headphones have versus speakers. Then again a lot of high-end speakers benefit from room treatment which can be costly, but I shouldn't be bringing speaker conversation in here .


----------



## preproman

kothganesh said:


> Prep, that's fair. I am using the KGSShv with the Stax so I'm probably almost "there". With the 6, I'm driving myself nuts in my quest for an amp. The more I look at Odyssey and read about it, the more I like it. Will give me a good opportunity to replace my JVC. I'll need a pre-amp as well. OR,* I'm hoping the Ragnarok is the Holy Grail for both the 800 and the 6.*


 
  
  
 That would be nice if the Ragg can pull that off.  I'm looking for it the be a really good match with the LCD-3Fs..  
  
 Talk to Klus (Odyssey) he is a great salesman.  He will give you a great deal on the Kismet..Go for an integrated..


----------



## Sorrodje

http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/8880#post_10338732
  
 I gave my impression about Abyss vs HD800  from a Totaldac D1 Dual + ECBA ( PX4 + Mullard tubes) rig  a few month ago.   Everyone who really have the Abyss in hands understands immediately that  measurements should be very difficult with those "headphones" . So IMO every measurements of these cans should be taken with a grain of salt. its maybe right and accurate maybe not.  And you can trust me, I really appreciate headphone measurements and innerfidelity is my bible for that (I only compare measurements from the same source) . Some other Headphones are very hard to measure accurately too ( ATH woodies If my memory is good)
  
 A lot of Abyss bashing for bad reasons here. Yes the Abyss is ugly, Yes Abyss measurements show oddities, Yes this is expensive but sorry guys , the Abyss is better than my beloved HD800  and it's due to two points and the most important is not the E.T bass departement but the imaging capabilities.  I don't which measurement show imaging capabilities. Soes someone know that ?  
  
 That said for my own tastes , I'd take the SR009 over the Abyss .  More precisely , I consider that my HD800 , although less fast and accurate than the SR009, although less impressive in imaging and bass that Abyss  is my best option to enjoy my music in my current environnement.  And i don''t care about not owning the best headphone of the world. We don't speak about Olympic Games for audiophiles here , don't we ?


----------



## LugBug1

When you gaze long into an Abyss the Abyss also gazes into you your wallet!
  
 just sayin...


----------



## pearljam50000

lugbug1 said:


> When you gaze long into an Abyss the Abyss also gazes into you your wallet!
> 
> just sayin...



Nietzsche lol


----------



## magiccabbage

Can anyone tell me if the colorware paint jobs are more resistant to flaking and small scratches on the HD800?


----------



## reddog

The Head-Fi Summer Buying had a review of the Ragnarok, and in the review Jude seemed to really like how the HD-800'S and the HE-6' sounded, when powered by the Ragnarok. It was this review, that has inspired me to save up and get the Ragnarok and the HE-6.


----------



## MattTCG

magiccabbage said:


> Can anyone tell me if the colorware paint jobs are more resistant to flaking and small scratches on the HD800?


 
  
 I swapped a few emails with them. I stated that yes, in fact their paint in more resistant to scratches.


----------



## magiccabbage

matttcg said:


> I swapped a few emails with them. I stated that yes, in fact their paint in more resistant to scratches.


 
 brilliant - thanks matt


----------



## Maxvla

Had my colorwares for 2 1/2 years, no flakes yet.


----------



## magiccabbage

maxvla said:


> Had my colorwares for 2 1/2 years, no flakes yet.


 
 sweet


----------



## preproman

magiccabbage said:


> Can anyone tell me if the colorware paint jobs are more resistant to flaking and small scratches on the HD800?


 
  
 That was the best move I made - and getting them hardwired.


----------



## MattTCG

preproman said:


> That was the best move I made - and getting them hardwired.


 
  
 Why hardwired? Just curious...


----------



## Eee Pee

maxvla said:


> Had my colorwares for 2 1/2 years, no flakes yet.


 
  
 Impressive.  My #6954 that I've had for quite some time could be called Colorflakes.
  
 Don't read that wrong, I don't have Colorwares.  
  
 My stock 800s are looking pretty bad.  Sounds the same though.


----------



## preproman

matttcg said:


> Why hardwired? Just curious...


 
  
 The best connectors are no connectors..


----------



## Zoom25

preproman said:


> The best connectors are no connectors..


 
 Best place to get it done? Also, you hear an audible difference between hardwire vs. non hardwire (assuming same quality of cable is used)?


----------



## kothganesh

preproman said:


> The best connectors are no connectors..


 
 Any competent electrician should be able to do this right? I live in India so.....


----------



## icebear

sorrodje said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/8880#post_10338732
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


 
 Could you elaborate what you understand as imaging capabilities ?
 For me that is the ability to recreated the image of the position of the sound source, otherwise also referred to as "sound stage". I only heard the Abyss once with Woo Audio amp & DAC at the NY 2014 spring meet and I wasn't particularly impressed with the Abyss. I got the standard headphone "in the middle of my head" effect and the only can I don't get this is the HD800. Other than that the weight of the Abyss gives me a headache. So luckily for my wallet I'm very happy with the HD800 and not tempted at all by the Abyss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Eee Pee

kothganesh said:


> Any competent electrician should be able to do this right? I live in India so.....


 
  
 Yes. Just be comfortable with small wire soldering.  Found with Google Image.  Not too bad.


----------



## preproman

zoom25 said:


> Best place to get it done? Also, you hear an audible difference between hardwire vs. non hardwire (assuming same quality of cable is used)?


 
  
 I got mine done at SAA.  Be careful, yes he is an ex Senn. engineer but he will also try to sell you a lot of snake oil.  I knew I just wanted my headphones hardwired and nothing else.  He also does an Ultra- Mod.  Greed got both done to his HD800s.  Depending on what cable you want - It will take away any hardness or harshness in the highs.  The mids are more enjoyable.
  
 To my ears it makes the HD800 sound more mature 
  
  
 http://www.stefanaudioart.com/
  
 http://casques-headphones.com/index


----------



## Eee Pee

preproman said:


> sneak oil


 
  
 That's kinda funny.


----------



## preproman

eee pee said:


> That's kinda funny.


 
 He will sneak you some snake oil sure nuff..


----------



## Zoom25

preproman said:


> I got mine done at SAA.  Be careful, yes he is an ex Senn. engineer but he will also try to sell you a lot of snake oil.  I knew I just wanted my headphones hardwired and nothing else.  He also does an Ultra- Mod.  Greed got both done to his HD800s.  Depending on what cable you want - It will take away any hardness or harshness in the highs.  The mids are more enjoyable.
> 
> To my ears it makes the HD800 sound more mature
> 
> ...


 
 So just hardwire with endorphin and skip the Ultra mod? That's still like $749 stock at 4 feet. Is it actually worth anywhere near that?


----------



## Sorrodje

icebear said:


> Could you elaborate what you understand as imaging capabilities ?
> For me that is the ability to recreated the image of the position of the sound source, otherwise also referred to as "sound stage". I only heard the Abyss once with Woo Audio amp & DAC at the NY 2014 spring meet and I wasn't particularly impressed with the Abyss. I got the standard headphone "in the middle of my head" effect and the only can I don't get this is the HD800. Other than that the weight of the Abyss gives me a headache. So luckily for my wallet I'm very happy with the HD800 and not tempted at all by the Abyss
> 
> 
> ...


 

 we talk about the same thing. I had the big chance to try the Abyss quietly without any noise around me and I've no doubt about is superior imaging capabilities ( more consistent image with a better sense of mouvement from back to front, more 3D) . We've scrutated those abilities with very specific music.  It seems the settings ( pads positionning anbd head band settings) make a big difference though. 
  
 With big orchestral pieces , it seems the difference was less obvious though


----------



## preproman

zoom25 said:


> So just hardwire with endorphin and skip the Ultra mod? That's still like $749 stock at 4 feet. Is it actually worth anywhere near that?


 
 That is a lot of money I know.  However, you know how it is when you want something - you go get it at all cost (well almost at all cost).  I looked around trying to find someone who would do it - no takers.  My guy that hardwired all my other headphones would not touch it.  So when I found out about SAA I was like "game on"  Then the price gave me pause.  
  
 I thought about it for about 3 weeks.  It eat at me so much I just gave in and got it done.  James tried to get me to get the Ultra mod as well, but after hearing the Anax mod I decided not to.  Not saying both mods would sound the same.  Hell - I just wanted the hardwire, I said if I feel the need to have the Ultra Mod done I'll send them in.  Well - I don't feel the need.
  
 The cable it self is what cost.  To bad you can't have him hardwire your own cable.  If he did I would have sent him a Norse Cable - much cheaper.  I had to go with what he offered.


----------



## Zoom25

preproman said:


> That is a lot of money I know.  However, you know how it is when you want something - you go get it at all cost (well almost at all cost).  I looked around trying to find someone who would do it - no takers.  My guy that hardwired all my other headphones would not touch it.  So when I found out about SAA I was like "game on"  Then the price gave me pause.
> 
> I thought about it for about 3 weeks.  It eat at me so much I just gave in and got it done.  James tried to get me to get the Ultra mod as well, but after hearing the Anax mod I decided not to.  Not saying both mods would sound the same.  Hell - I just wanted the hardwire, I said if I feel the need to have the Ultra Mod done I'll send them in.  Well - I don't feel the need.
> 
> The cable it self is what cost.  To bad you can't have him hardwire your own cable.  If he did I would have sent him a Norse Cable - much cheaper.  I had to go with what he offered.


 
  
 Thanks for your thought process. Have you had a chance to compare your hardwired endorphin HD800s to other non-hardwired upgraded cables from Norse or Headphone Lounge (which I typically pick) in terms of sound? Aside from the hardwire benefits, does the endorphin cable actually sound anywhere near it's value? I've seen HD800 cables go anywhere from $200 to $400, but $749 with extra $50 per foot just sounded insane. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## preproman

zoom25 said:


> Thanks for your thought process. Have you had a chance to compare your hardwired endorphin HD800s to other non-hardwired upgraded cables from Norse or Headphone Lounge (which I typically pick) in terms of sound? Aside from the hardwire benefits, *does the endorphin cable actually sound anywhere near it's value?* I've seen HD800 cables go anywhere from $200 to $400, but $749 with extra $50 per foot just sounded insane. Thanks for the advice.


 
  
 I would say no to the bold.  I don't think no cable is worth that much.  
  
 Only from memory.  
  
 This is my third pair of HD800s - I've had a few types of Norse cables on them - could not really tell the difference between the Norse cables but this cable just sounds different from what I can remember.  The HD800s just sound more mature now - less raw. Again only from memory no side by side.


----------



## Canadian411

$750 for a cable ? ouch.


----------



## lojay

preproman said:


> I would say no to the bold.  I don't think no cable is worth that much.
> 
> Only from memory.
> 
> This is my third pair of HD800s - I've had a few types of Norse cables on them - could not really tell the difference between the Norse cables but this cable just sounds different from what I can remember.  The HD800s just sound more mature now - less raw. Again only from memory no side by side.


 
  
 My Endorphins have tamed the HD800 significantly, but unfortunately have broken. I have no idea how that happened...


----------



## preproman

lojay said:


> My Endorphins have tamed the HD800 significantly, but unfortunately have broken. I have no idea how that happened...


 
 What broke, the cable or the Headphones?


----------



## lojay

preproman said:


> What broke, the cable or the Headphones?


 
 The cable.


----------



## Greed

Not unheard of, it is solid core. With enough strain, or even continuous strain can affect the longevity.


----------



## icebear

sorrodje said:


> we talk about the same thing. I had the big chance to try the Abyss quietly without any noise around me and I've no doubt about is superior imaging capabilities ( more consistent image with a better sense of mouvement from back to front, more 3D) . We've scrutated those abilities with very specific music.  It seems the settings ( pads positionning anbd head band settings) make a big difference though.
> 
> With big orchestral pieces , it seems the difference was less obvious though


 
  Thanks for the reply. For sure the conditions at the NY spring meet were not good and I didn't start to fiddle around with the sample of the Abyss to get the fit right.
  


preproman said:


> I would say no to the bold.  I don't think no cable is worth that much.
> 
> Only from memory.
> 
> This is my third pair of HD800s - I've had a few types of Norse cables on them - could not really tell the difference between the Norse cables but this cable just sounds different from what I can remember.  The HD800s just sound more mature now - less raw. Again only from memory no side by side.


 
  
 When I was in the market for a balanced HD800 cable, I also came across SAA but with 14 feet that I needed, this was way above what I wanted to spend. I went with a Norne Audio Vanquish (red sleeving) and I am absolutely happy with it. Hard wiring this, might be something I want to explore at some point of time. As you said the best connector is no connector 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## LargoCantabile

I am not a cable expert but have owned HD800 for about 2 years now. When I bought them the guy in audio shop suggested Cardas cables to replace the stock cable plus a connector thingy which turns the thick plug into a thin one to fit my ALO headphone amp. I have no idea if they are balanced or not. BUT I first listened with the stock cable and then plugged in the Cardas cable and it *was a world of difference, like a fog being lifted.* Only nuisance with this Cardas cloth covered cable is that it is very long and develops peculiar bends and kinks which once done cannot undo. I have coiled it up and used ties to shorten it. I suppose the cable will break where it kinks and I have no idea what to do about that.


----------



## magiccabbage

largocantabile said:


> I am not a cable expert but have owned HD800 for about 2 years now. When I bought them the guy in audio shop suggested Cardas cables to replace the stock cable plus a connector thingy which turns the thick plug into a thin one to fit my ALO headphone amp. I have no idea if they are balanced or not. BUT I first listened with the stock cable and then plugged in the Cardas cable and it *was a world of difference, like a fog being lifted.* Only nuisance with this Cardas cloth covered cable is that it is very long and develops peculiar bends and kinks which once done cannot undo. I have coiled it up and used ties to shorten it. I suppose the cable will break where it kinks and I have no idea what to do about that.


 
 Really? A world of difference? I must try a few cables myself soon and see if I can hear anything


----------



## Zoom25

Aside from hardwire endorphins, where does cardas fall among all the other Moon Audio, Headphone Lounge, Norse Audio and such.


----------



## cl5160316

omg, just got a pair for myself.  31xxx.
 i don't feel the amazingness at first, but it's when I go BACK to the HD-650 that makes me feel like everything is much smaller..


----------



## pearljam50000

cl5160316 said:


> omg, just got a pair for myself.  31xxx.
> i don't feel the amazingness at first, but it's when I go BACK to the HD-650 that makes me feel like everything is much smaller..



Sooo jealous (;
Enjoy.


----------



## magiccabbage

cl5160316 said:


> omg, just got a pair for myself.  31xxx.
> i don't feel the amazingness at first, but it's when I go BACK to the HD-650 that makes me feel like everything is much smaller..


 
 wait till a few weeks pass and then you go back to the HD650. Same thing happened to me except I went - HD650 - T1 - HD800. I eventually sold the HD650 and am in the process of selling the T1. 
  
 What amp you using?


----------



## cl5160316

magiccabbage said:


> wait till a few weeks pass and then you go back to the HD650. Same thing happened to me except I went - HD650 - T1 - HD800. I eventually sold the HD650 and am in the process of selling the T1.
> 
> What amp you using?


 
  
 SPL Auditor


----------



## archeryc

For anyone who interested in Custom Painted HD800, I'm selling my brand new HD800 from Colorware, also the Cardas Clear cable, welcome to have a look.


----------



## drez

zoom25 said:


> Aside from hardwire endorphins, where does cardas fall among all the other Moon Audio, Headphone Lounge, Norse Audio and such.


 
  
 I think Cardas are litz copper if that is information of any use.


----------



## Zoom25

drez said:


> I think Cardas are litz copper if that is information of any use.


 
 I have no idea what that's supposed to translate to what I am supposed to be getting out of it, but thanks for the info


----------



## Somphon

archeryc said:


> For anyone who interested in Custom Painted HD800, I'm selling my brand new HD800 from Colorware, also the Cardas Clear cable, welcome to have a look.


 
  
 Just wondering does the new paint job change the sounds at all?
  
 I would imagine the headphone was design with specific housing type/material. Would the new paint job affect it?


----------



## archeryc

somphon said:


> Just wondering does the new paint job change the sounds at all?
> 
> I would imagine the headphone was design with specific housing type/material. Would the new paint job affect it?




Of course won't. You can see lots people sending their HD800 to Colorware for the paint, also it still have warranty after the paint. They only paint the surface and won't touch anything that relevant to sound quality.


----------



## whirlwind

cl5160316 said:


> omg, just got a pair for myself.  31xxx.
> i don't feel the amazingness at first, but it's when I go BACK to the HD-650 that makes me feel like everything is much smaller..


 
  
 Yea, same thing happened to me.
  
 After awhile I eventually sold the HD650.......then after another little while I sold my RS1i.
  
 You get so used to listening to them, that you just expect that sound......as soon as I put on another set of cans, I was like.....damn....these are small and narrow


----------



## Justin_Time

somphon said:


> Just wondering does the new paint job change the sounds at all?
> 
> I would imagine the headphone was design with specific housing type/material. Would the new paint job affect it?


 
 I now have three pairs of HD800, one stock. one cranberry-gold and one limited-edition glossy gold and black.
  
 They all sound very slightly different because...all stock units are never perfectly identical--though they are extremely close--and all three painted units have different level of break-in, the last one being brand new.
  
 Of course the paint job has no effect whatsoever on the sound.  After all these are just headphones made of metal and plastic.  They are not Stradivarius...
  
 So stop worrying at get yours painted exactly the way you like it--just stay away from lime-green and fuchsia; you may never be able to re-sell them.
  
 BTW, it you buy directly from Colorware, the cost is the same as the stock unit new.  If you send in your old pair (in pristine condition only), it will cost you $300.


----------



## Somphon

justin_time said:


> I now have three pairs of HD800, one stock. one cranberry-gold and one limited-edition glossy gold and black.
> 
> They all sound very slightly different because...all stock units are never perfectly identical--though they are extremely close--and all three painted units have different level of break-in, the last one being brand new.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So you're saying headphone the housing material / design has no affect on sound quality?


----------



## icebear

justin_time said:


> ...
> *Of course the paint job has no effect whatsoever on the sound. * After all these are just headphones made of metal and plastic.  They are not Stradivarius...
> .....


 
  


somphon said:


> So you're saying headphone the housing material / design has no affect on sound quality?


 
  
*The color *doesn't make a difference if the underlying material is exactly the same.
 Housing material and shape obviously make all the difference - next to the drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Justin_Time

somphon said:


> So you're saying headphone the housing material / design has no affect on sound quality?



 


No, I am saying that the frames are made of metal and plastic which is not the same as a resonance box of a violin made of delicate wood where any tiny change even on the surface can alter the sound.

I am also saying that the variation of the sound from one unit to another, as small as they are, are much larger than any change--and I pretty sure there is none--caused by a layer of paint on metal and plastic. 

I am also saying that I have three pairs, two of which are painted, and I know that there is no difference among them except for the very small, slow and progressive sonic evolution during break-in. 

No speculations necessary. The paint does not change the sound.


----------



## Somphon

justin_time said:


> somphon said:
> 
> 
> > So you're saying headphone the housing material / design has no affect on sound quality?
> ...


 
  
 Thanks Justin. Its a beautiful piece and I'm tempting to get one. Then I'm not so sure since the paint looks quite thick, I suspect it might affect the way the unit is designed. Anyway, thanks for the reassurance.


----------



## Justin_Time

icebear said:


> *The color *doesn't make a difference if the underlying material is exactly the same.
> Housing material and shape obviously make all the difference - next to the drivers
> 
> 
> ...



 


Exactly!

Absolutely nothing is changed underneath the layer of paint.

I do not know why people are concerned about this. I guaranty you, in the dark, they all sound the same


----------



## Justin_Time

icebear said:


> *The color *doesn't make a difference if the underlying material is exactly the same.
> Housing material and shape obviously make all the difference - next to the drivers
> 
> 
> ...



 


The original question was whether the paint job done by Colorware changes the sound of the HD800, nothing else.

And the answer is a resounding NO.


----------



## icebear

justin_time said:


> icebear said:
> 
> 
> > *The color *doesn't make a difference if the underlying material is exactly the same.
> ...


 
 LOL, as people are not sitting in the dark all the time, I am sure they will attest that a silver one is worst in terms of sibilance issues


----------



## drez

somphon said:


> Just wondering does the new paint job change the sounds at all?
> 
> I would imagine the headphone was design with specific housing type/material. Would the new paint job affect it?


 
  
 I think the black paint makes them sound darker.  
  
 j/k, but yeah could be that the paint has some minute effect on the resonant characteristics of the headphone, who knows.


----------



## Maxvla

Purrin measured my HD800s and they were within production tolerances of 4-5 other pairs they measured at the same time.


----------



## BournePerfect

maxvla said:


> Purrin measured my HD800s and they were within production tolerances of 4-5 other pairs they measured at the same time.


 
  
 Didn't he also say your's sounded better than any other stock HD800 he'd heard? Less peak, or something to that effect?
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Maxvla

Yes, but only slightly. The graphs were all very similar. Nick Dangerous and I have used our HD800s interchangeably since I got mine. I've never heard a difference.


----------



## 62ohm

Maxvla,
  
 Any comment on how the ECP Black Diamond compares against the GS-X Mk.2 with the HD800s?


----------



## Maxvla

Waiting on Ragnarok for 3 way review.


----------



## Jokko

Anyone heard both the Audio-GD Master 9 and Auralic Taurus mk2 with the HD800? Auditioned the Taurus today, thought it was pretty amazing.


----------



## frankrondaniel

jokko said:


> Anyone heard both the Audio-GD Master 9 and Auralic Taurus mk2 with the HD800? Auditioned the Taurus today, thought it was pretty amazing.


 
  
 I've been considering the Taurus.  Would you be able expand on your impression of it with the HD800?


----------



## Jokko

Well since I haven`t tried that many high end amps you can take it for whats its worth, but it felt it had amazing synergy with HD800 / HE-560 (which are my two favorite cans at the moment). Didn´t find it harsh with the HD800 and it actually delivered some nice low frequencies. Would love to compare it to that M9 though...


----------



## drez

M9 not expensive


----------



## Jokko

!
  
 Cant wait for Ragnarok impressions with the HD800`s though. I like this year so far


----------



## drez

It is shaping up to be a good year indeed.


----------



## zilch0md

purrin said:


> By approximate price give or take a few hundred - not in order of sound quality - and only in relation to HD800.
> 
> 
> Vali - extremely resolving for price. tube wetness. hint of warmth in bass. smooth, but neutral treble. monotonic timbre, but not gonna bitch for $120. I use it myself.
> ...







purrin said:


> Yes, the Sonnett is very appropriately placed in terms of pricing - keeping in mind that all those amps you mentioned do sound different and have different capabilities with WA2 being the most gooey. BHA1 being the most solid-state because it is solid-state. WA6 and Super 7 almost sounding like anything depending upon tubes. Sonnett 2 works well with stock HD800. Super 7 and WA6SE with typical tube arrangement, I resort to light EQ or mods. (To give you reference, I think stock HD800 is slightly too bright.) S7 has the most slam. S7 and Sonnett 2 are a little more resolving to the rest. BHA-1 is flattest in terms of microdynamics of the bunch, but has best control and is the least soft.




Lots of shared wisdom, here, purrin! Thank you!

Somehow, I'm drawn to two options and thus, a question for you, please:

Independent of price (a difficult consideration), with tube rolling allowed, of course, which amp would you prefer for the HD800 - the Valhalla 2 (with or without Anax) -or- the DNA Sonnett 2 (with or without Anax) ?


----------



## BleaK

maxvla said:


> Waiting on Ragnarok for 3 way review.


 
  
 I think you probably would like the Questyle CMA800R as well.


----------



## listen4joy

i wonder what place in crack gets from all these amps


----------



## longbowbbs

jokko said:


> Anyone heard both the Audio-GD Master 9 and Auralic Taurus mk2 with the HD800? Auditioned the Taurus today, thought it was pretty amazing.


 
 I heard the Taurus with the Vega and my HD800 at AXPONA....I could easily live with that pairing.


----------



## Chodi

longbowbbs said:


> I heard the Taurus with the Vega and my HD800 at AXPONA....I could easily live with that pairing.


 
 I can't speak for the Audio-gd, but I own the Taurus and the HD800 and I find that they make a great pairing ( and I have been through several amps). I run the HD800 fully balanced through the Taurus.


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Purrin, in reference to your amp lineup, where would you place the Apex Teton which some claim is a step above the EC 4-45 (within that price range)? I'm seriously considering it.


----------



## magiccabbage

rdr. seraphim said:


> Purrin, in reference to your amp lineup, where would you place the Apex Teton which some claim is a step above the EC 4-45 (within that price range)? I'm seriously considering it.


 
 I have not heard anyone claim that. How many people have heard the EC 445 anyway? Its unfortunate that the Teton is kind of ugly because I have heard a lot of good things about it.


----------



## Frank I

The Tetron sounded very good with the hd800 . I have heard it a couple of times and once at a meet in NY spent considerable time listening. The designs by Pete Millet are always exceptional and creative. This amp is no exception


----------



## Sorrodje

zilch0md said:


> Somehow, I'm drawn to two options and thus, a question for you, please:
> 
> Independent of price (a difficult consideration), with tube rolling allowed, of course, which amp would you prefer for the HD800 - the Valhalla 2 (with or without Anax) -or- the DNA Sonett 2 (with or without Anax) ?


 
  
 Purrin can't answer himself so it's for you :
  


> *I would go for V2, because I'm an "all-in" (Stratus) or cheapskate (V2) kind of guy. Doesn't take anything away from the Sonett 2 though. *


 
  





  
 PS: Didn't try the V2 myself so I haven't any reliable opinion.


----------



## chengka7

rdr. seraphim said:


> Purrin, in reference to your amp lineup, where would you place the Apex Teton which some claim is a step above the EC 4-45 (within that price range)? I'm seriously considering it.


 
 I really should not make any comment here, since I have not heard Teton or 445, but one of my best friend has heard both Teton and my 2A3MKIV(Similar design of 445). Although using different source, he said Teton is really good with HD800, but 2A3MKIV is also as musical as Teton and offers a similar bass attack and wider sound stage. I will have my 445 coming in few weeks and I also will get a Teton from Todd for audition. Although I am selling my 2A3MKIV, but it is really a stunning amp, I just got too many amps at the same time. I will let you guys know how those 3 compete with each other. But really you cant expect me to write a full review, I am so bad at it.


----------



## punit

Just throwing in another amp in the mix, that has impressed me with the HD 800 (& T1). Glenn's custom OTL :


----------



## zilch0md

Thank you Sorrodje!
  
 Are you relaying purrin's response to my question on his behalf or are you quoting something he wrote previously, in response to someone else's question?
  
 In any case, I trust that you are quoting purrin, and again, thanks for this post!
  
 Mike
  
 Quote:


sorrodje said:


> Purrin can't answer himself so it's for you :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Sorrodje

zilch0md said:


> Are you relaying purrin's response to my question on his behalf or are you quoting something he wrote previously, in response to someone else's question?


 
  
 First option sir


----------



## DarrenLays

Does anyone here own both the LCD-2 and the HD800?
  
 Could you perhaps give me a good comparison?
  
  
  
 I own LCD-2 fazors that are a few months old, but I want to maybe get HD800 instead.  Their frequency response curves are almost identical (hd800 has a tad bit more treble, but I'm ok with that)

 I sort of want the bigger soundstage+ better imaging that lots of people describe, but I wanted to get some more opinions first before I think about making the switch!


----------



## MattTCG

They are almost utterly opposite. The lcd-2 is rich, meaty, wet...whereas the hd800 is more about accuracy, imaging, sound stage. The hd800 is very dependent on the gear in front of it. The lcd2 much less so. Much better comfort for me on the 800. ymmv


----------



## Fearless1

My friends reaction when comparing the two on my setup that I found humorous and a bit like Matt's description , "The Lcd-2 (non fazor)is  like my Mom's meat and potatoes, the HD-800 is like a meal in a fancy restaurant that you paid too much for but it was worth it".
  
  
 Needless to say, he is a chef.


----------



## magiccabbage

chengka7 said:


> I really should not make any comment here, since I have not heard Teton or 445, but one of my best friend has heard both Teton and my 2A3MKIV(Similar design of 445). Although using different source, he said Teton is really good with HD800, but 2A3MKIV is also as musical as Teton and offers a similar bass attack and wider sound stage. I will have my 445 coming in few weeks and I also will get a Teton from Todd for audition. Although I am selling my 2A3MKIV, but it is really a stunning amp, I just got too many amps at the same time. I will let you guys know how those 3 compete with each other. But really you cant expect me to write a full review, I am so bad at it.


 
 I look forward to your impressions. Hopefully those 2 sales go well for you


----------



## Maxvla

bleak said:


> I think you probably would like the Questyle CMA800R as well.



Ears I trust say it dulls the HD800 too much. I'd be willing to try it, but won't be buying one for the opportunity.


Purrin is banned from this thread. Too much 'contribution', I suppose. I'm guessing that's a quote from past comments.


----------



## MickeyVee

We've got some wicked thunderstorms going on right now so I decide to shut down anything plugged in.  Running my MacBook Air with my dusted off AQ Dragonfly 1.2 and you know what, not too bad with the HD800.  Nice job in a pinch.  Miss the bass slam, air and control but still very listenable.  Not a bad way of slumming it.


----------



## MacedonianHero

mickeyvee said:


> We've got some wicked thunderstorms going on right now so I decide to shut down anything plugged in.  Running my MacBook Air with my dusted off AQ Dragonfly 1.2 and you know what, not too bad with the HD800.  Nice job in a pinch.  Miss the bass slam, air and control but still very listenable.  Not a bad way of slumming it.


 
  
 They are something wicked! Now using my new Bose QC25s to drown out the thunder.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

mickeyvee said:


> We've got some wicked thunderstorms going on right now so I decide to shut down anything plugged in.  Running my MacBook Air with my dusted off AQ Dragonfly 1.2 and you know what, not too bad with the HD800.  Nice job in a pinch.  Miss the bass slam, air and control but still very listenable.  Not a bad way of slumming it.


I'm listening through the storm too, getting some paperwork done while using my basic iPod Touch 5G -> JDS Labs O2 -> HD800. I've got a Nuforce HA200 on the way, estimated to arrive on the 12th. Now all I need is a decent DAC for what will no doubt be my dream headphone setup .


----------



## MickeyVee

The moral of the story is that you don't need a milti-thousand dollar setup to enjoy the HD800.  Listening to Diana Krall, Eva Cassidy and Enigma.  Lights out, candle lit and enjoying every second of it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Looking at my WA6 with the Sophia Princess rectifier and I sure don't want to see it blow up in my face if we get a power surge. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


toddthemetalgod said:


> I'm listening through the storm too, getting some paperwork done while using my basic iPod Touch 5G -> JDS Labs O2 -> HD800. I've got a Nuforce HA200 on the way, estimated to arrive on the 12th. Now all I need is a decent DAC for what will no doubt be my dream headphone setup
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Anavel0

Pretty interesting seeing people run the HD800 with wallet friendly setups. Always resigned myself to not owning a pair because recommended setups are very high dollar. 

I saw several people running the HD800 with the Valhalla 2. To anyone that has tried this combo. Can you pair it with a Bifrost or do you still need a high dollar DAC ahead of the Valhalla 2?


----------



## lin0003

I don't see why not. I've heard it is a good DAC for the price.


----------



## zilch0md

matttcg said:


> They are almost utterly opposite. The lcd-2 is rich, meaty, wet...whereas the hd800 is more about accuracy, imaging, sound stage. The hd800 is very dependent on the gear in front of it. The lcd2 much less so. Much better comfort for me on the 800. ymmv




I agree with all of that. 



sorrodje said:


> First option sir




My thanks to both of you!

I've ordered the Valhalla 2.


----------



## Chodi

anavel0 said:


> Pretty interesting seeing people run the HD800 with wallet friendly setups. Always resigned myself to not owning a pair because recommended setups are very high dollar.
> 
> I saw several people running the HD800 with the Valhalla 2. To anyone that has tried this combo. Can you pair it with a Bifrost or do you still need a high dollar DAC ahead of the Valhalla 2?


 
 There are a lot of dacs under $1000 that will pair well with the HD800 but they may not bring you that last 5%-10% you get for the higher prices. I found that getting the right  amp is a greater issue with my HD800's. If you troll the reviews you can find products in your price range that work just fine. This is Headfi so comments tend to lean towards the "ultimate" pairing. Not everyone can afford to drop 10K on a dac or an amp. You don't really need to do that to get most of the way to very high end sound with the HD800's.


----------



## DarrenLays

The dac is going to be the least of your worries, any reputable dac will give you almost every last percent of the music.


----------



## DarrenLays

fearless1 said:


> My friends reaction when comparing the two on my setup that I found humorous and a bit like Matt's description , "The Lcd-2 (non fazor)is  like my Mom's meat and potatoes, the HD-800 is like a meal in a fancy restaurant that you paid too much for but it was worth it".
> 
> 
> Needless to say, he is a chef.


 
  
  


matttcg said:


> They are almost utterly opposite. The lcd-2 is rich, meaty, wet...whereas the hd800 is more about accuracy, imaging, sound stage. The hd800 is very dependent on the gear in front of it. The lcd2 much less so. Much better comfort for me on the 800. ymmv


 
  
  
  
  
 A guy on the LCD-2 thread is doing a "flagship" rundown, where he's buying headphones for a few weeks, returning them and then buying another pair to see what he likes most.
  
 He has a pair of LCD-2 on hand, and just got his HD800 a few days ago.
  
  
 He mentioned the bass on them isn't anywhere near as lackluster as people make them out to be, and found them more "punchy" than the LCD-2, but the LCD-2 had the weight + depth as well and the HD800 didn't have quite as much.
  
  
 (considering many occasions people have said that adding fazors on has reduced the bass of the LCD-2 quite a bit, which I seem to agree with because my LCD-2's really don't have a crap ton of "kick-you-intheface" bass, but rather articulation and depth in the lower register, I don't think the switch would be that bad.)
  
  
 Here's his whole post:
  
  
  Right now I have the hd 800 for a week or so, then gonna try the he-560. I'm slowly learning I fall into the minority of sound preferences somehow. like a great example, SO FAR, with the hd 800 is that I actually feel it has harder hitting and more noticeable bass than the lcd 2 (and I am using a good amp, the new Violectric V281). Yes the lcd 2 has more bass, and goes audibly down to the 20hz and below mark, where the hd 800 only goes down to 30hz (as in the volume you hear at 20hz on the lcd 2 is only reached when it gets to 30hz on the hd 800), and in general the hd 800 is less linear in the bass region, and has less boom( like reverberation, as in the sound you get playing a bass tone, versus the punch of a bass kick), BUT the hd 800 hits harder, and the bass stands out more in the mix. I realized the lcd 2 is so linear that the bass can sometimes fall into place too well, and as a result does not stand out as much. but since the hd 800 has all that treble and air, you end up noticing the bass much more, as it is such a contrast to everything else you hear. (but I still would not keep the hd 800, too much treble, a bit too hot, and a tad too bright in tone, plus the bass needs a bit more reverberation), but it made the lcd 2 bass seem soft and hidden. unless you played straight bass tones.
  
  
 well I never heard the fazor version, so take this into consideration, but in comparison to a september 2013 model the hd800 is instantly noticeable to have better imaging. the soundstage is bigger, but not in the distant kind of way a lot of reviews make it out to be, its more that it just extends out infinitely, rather than having an end to it. but that just means only if a recording has a huge soundstage, will you ever really notice this difference. otherwise they are close enough to not care so much about it (unless you listen to music with massive soundstages a lot, like classical or something. I listen to a lot of metal and some ambient electronic, and a few random stuff in between). the imaging though is definitely better. like the slight improvement in air and soundstage availability really does just help place sounds/instruments exactly where they should be, and separate them from each other nicely. Plus it is super 3d holographic, meaning a sound panning from left to right does not feel like it gets lost or dimmed when its in front/center, thats the problem many headphones have. the lcd 2 images very well also, but without having as much air, there isnt as much space between sounds, but they never blend. the hd800 gives them breathing room. so both image great, just depends how much size you like.
  
 to put everything I just said into context, neither headphone does soundstaging/imaging good or bad enough for me to prefer one over the other for this trait. the hd800 can have some sweet moments with binaural stuff though, and if you are not a fan of smaller soundstages, the hd 800 will give you the extra breathing room. I can see how it might be a bit too large on some stuff, but honestly I think the reviews blow that negative wayyyyy out of proportion. its just subtely too big, but it wont make anything sound wrong to you. the imaging I would miss though, it does that way too awesome lol.
  
 it also has noticeably better detail. you will hear it first thing for sure. and because the hd 800 has a sharper treble, details always get noticed. which makes them impress you all the time. the lcd 2 was like that for me for the first day or so, then it got a bit dull in that respect. the hd 800 is always intense (too much so for the long term, as in fatiguing) but it sure is pretty cool to listen to like ambient electronic music with tons of subtle layers and just get your mind blown. the lcd 2 treble makes the details too quiet compared to the rest of the sound. so they are there, but you have a hard time noticing them, esp the subtle ones. and at this price point, those details make the difference between sounding amazing, and sounding like you want more. (hence why audeze has 3 models more expensive to remedy this).


----------



## Dopaminer

darrenlays said:


> The dac is going to be the least of your worries, any reputable dac will give you almost every last percent of the music.


 
  
 You need to define `reputable`.  I think I agree with you.  The HD800s clearly showed unambiguous, effortlessly-noticeable differences between my old TEAC UD-H01 dac and the vastly superior and more expensive Luxman DA-06, especially with vocals, and the fatigue factor.  It was like, absolutely obvious, the difference in sound quality, staging, musicality.   I enjoyed the DA-06 for 6 months then recently tried TEAC`s new UD-301.  I was again blown away, because even though I really really wanted to, I could not hear any benefit whatsoever in the Luxman over the TEAC.  I got the TEAC as a store-demo model for about US$350; the Luxman was nearly 10 times that (here in Japan; about 15 - 20x abroad).  I sold the Lux.   
  
 I`m not sure if a 350$ dac would fit in your `reputable` category.


----------



## MickeyVee

I've run the HD800 with the PS Audio DLIII, Bifrost Uber, Rega DAC and the Naim DAC-V1.  To be honest, I could live with any of them.  In my case, the amp made more of a difference than the DAC did.  Other than the Bifrost, all the other DAC's have a bit of a warmer tilt which is my preference.  YMMV.
 Yes, the Bifrost Uber will do nicely.  Would like to try a Valhalla 2 someday.
  
 Quote:


anavel0 said:


> I saw several people running the HD800 with the Valhalla 2. To anyone that has tried this combo. Can you pair it with a Bifrost or do you still need a high dollar DAC ahead of the Valhalla 2?


----------



## FlySweep

zilch0md said:


> I've ordered the Valhalla 2.


 
  
 FINALLY.
  
 Mike.. you've come to the dark side (tubes).


----------



## Somphon

darrenlays said:


> Does anyone here own both the LCD-2 and the HD800?
> 
> Could you perhaps give me a good comparison?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Don't have LCD-2 but have 3f.
 If possible, keep both. In certain mood, you'll listen to certain music which LCDs will excel at. Others HD800 will.


----------



## BleaK

maxvla said:


> Ears I trust say it dulls the HD800 too much. I'd be willing to try it, but won't be buying one for the opportunity.


 
  
 Yeah I read that too. However I think CMA800R is an amp that you needs to grow on you. I can see why someone would say that at a meet. I am very happy pairing it with X-Sabre for now! Not dull sounding to my ears.


----------



## whirlwind

anavel0 said:


> Pretty interesting seeing people run the HD800 with wallet friendly setups. Always resigned myself to not owning a pair because recommended setups are very high dollar.
> 
> I saw several people running the HD800 with the Valhalla 2. To anyone that has tried this combo. Can you pair it with a Bifrost or do you still need a high dollar DAC ahead of the Valhalla 2?


 
  
 To my understanding the bifrost and valhalla 2 are a really nice pairing for the hd800.....and without breaking the bank


----------



## Moonhead

Questyle is very neutral and adds superior control and power to HD800 if you think it's dull, then you simply don't like the signature of HD800.
Get valves if you want to color the sound or shelve down things you don't like about HD800.


----------



## MattTCG

zilch0md said:


> I agree with all of that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 There is huge bang for the buck with the Val 2 when paired with the 800. I've tried the 800 from some very spendy amps: gs-x mkii, HA-1, Beyer A2...and the Val 2 holds it's own quite well. Crazy good pairing for the price.


----------



## MattTCG

whirlwind said:


> To my understanding the bifrost and valhalla 2 are a really nice pairing for the hd800.....and without breaking the bank


 
  
 The uberfrost and Val 2 make a great budget setup for the 800. The gungnir is a nice upgrade and has nice synergy in the chain. But the NAD m51 is really end game IMO.


----------



## magiccabbage

matttcg said:


> The uberfrost and Val 2 make a great budget setup for the 800. The gungnir is a nice upgrade and has nice synergy in the chain. But the NAD m51 is really end game IMO.


 
 Do you find any differences while using the Nad sinlge ended or balanced? I spent a good bit of time with it but only in single ended mode because of my WA2.


----------



## MattTCG

The real appreciation of the NAD happens with balanced for me. I was never really a proponent of balanced until the hd800 and the NAD. I stand corrected. Balanced is the way to go on that setup.


----------



## DarrenLays

somphon said:


> Don't have LCD-2 but have 3f.
> If possible, keep both. In certain mood, you'll listen to certain music which LCDs will excel at. Others HD800 will.




Unfortunately I don't have that type of money


----------



## Sorrodje

anavel0 said:


> Pretty interesting seeing people run the HD800 with wallet friendly setups. Always resigned myself to not owning a pair because recommended setups are very high dollar.


 
  
  
 There're many wallet friendly options for the HD800. But this headphones becomes really stellar with well choosen associated gear . You can notice I didn't say "expensive"  but "well-choosen" .  The problem with the HD800 is that upgraditis always stays on your shoulder and whispers "psssst you can have better" into your ears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . The Dalai Lama is the only person wise enough to resist to the siren's song.... 
  
  
 OK There's Lugbug1 too but .. you known.. he's from UK... Strange people there  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 Just Kidding guys ... I love british people
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .... female more than male though


----------



## midnightwalker

sorrodje said:


> The Dalai Lama is the only person wise enough to resist to the siren's song....


 
  
 Also the deaf...that means if you have no knowledge about more expensive or better amps, you will not think about an upgrade


----------



## zilch0md

Is there a sub-$1000 DAC that sounds like the Metrum Octave MkII - in terms of what the Octave MkII does to reinforce the HD800's strengths while compensating its weaknesses? 

In other words... 

Sonnet 2 *:* Valhalla 2 *:: *Octave MkII *:* ?

Mike


----------



## LugBug1

sorrodje said:


> OK There's Lugbug1 too but .. you known.. he's from UK... Strange people there
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yup, I resemble that remark 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 (and French women are also more favourable than their opposing counterparts... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

anavel0 said:


> Pretty interesting seeing people run the HD800 with wallet friendly setups. Always resigned myself to not owning a pair because recommended setups are very high dollar.
> 
> I saw several people running the HD800 with the Valhalla 2. To anyone that has tried this combo. Can you pair it with a Bifrost or do you still need a high dollar DAC ahead of the Valhalla 2?


People say things like that because they probably prefer other headphones with lower-end equipment... or they're just parroting what the audiophiles with a sense of entitlement say . The HD800 sounds like the HD800 out of any equipment, even budget equipment like ODAC/O2 in fact a lot of people love it with the Vali. From what I understand people upgrade upstream equipment to take away the slight brightness and add a bit of warmth. Of course it makes a difference in detail and a slight edge in imaging, but it's still more than good enough with budget gear.


----------



## Sorrodje

toddthemetalgod said:


> From what I understand people upgrade upstream equipment to take away the slight brightness and add a bit of warmth




Not really. Warmth and tamed treble are easy and cheap to obtain. A used nfb12 offers this.

Better amps offer IMO a greater soundstage and better dynamics so low level informations and blacker background is the real reward. Better DACs offer a more real tone with more meat on bones and less digital overall Sound. I have currently an o2/odac combo vs my current set up. 

That's my current feeling.


----------



## zilch0md

Hey Todd,



toddthemetalgod said:


> The HD800 sounds like the HD800 out of any equipment, even budget equipment like ODAC/O2 in fact a lot of people love it with the Vali. From what I understand people upgrade upstream equipment to take away the slight brightness and add a bit of warmth. Of course it makes a difference in detail and a slight edge in imaging, but it's still more than good enough with budget gear.




If I hadn't heard the HD800 on jazzerdave's Cavalli Liquid Glass, I would be inclined to agree with you. 

And...

If I hadn't owned the Vali for awhile, I'd be inclined to disagree with you.



(I get what you're saying, though - there is a consistency with the HD800, despite some chameleonic behavior, as well.) 

Here's hoping that a $349 Schiit Valhalla 2, which will arrive today, actually sounds better than the $120 Schiit Vali *and* better than my $1200 OPPO HA-1... And... all the other (affordable) solutions I've tried that sound different from each other with the HD800, but leave me wanting to sell it...

Mike


----------



## kvtaco17

My current setup makes my HD800's sound as good as I've heard them!
  
 Foobar200 with all dat flac/DSD
 AudioGD NFB29
 Glenn OTL (5998's, Mullard GZ32, RCA 5692/Tung-Sol 6SN7 mouse ears... kinda depends on my mood)
  
 AND it's not that expensive! lol


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

sorrodje said:


> Not really. Warmth and tamed treble are easy and cheap to obtain. A used nfb12 offers this.
> 
> Better amps offer IMO a greater soundstage and better dynamics so low level informations and blacker background is the real reward. Better DACs offer a more real tone with more meat on bones and less digital overall Sound. I have currently an o2/odac combo vs my current set up.
> 
> That's my current feeling.


That's a good point. You guys are probably right and my opinion will change once I hear them from much better equipment. But still, some people exaggerate a lot and say things like the HD800 is unlistenable with lower end equipment. It drives people away from them even though they're fantastic.


----------



## kvtaco17

toddthemetalgod said:


> That's a good point. You guys are probably right and my opinion will change once I hear them from much better equipment. But still, some people exaggerate a lot and say things like the HD800 is unlistenable with lower end equipment. It drives people away from them even though they're fantastic.


 

 They really do sound pretty good out of most setups! Heck my NFB11 got me most of the way there!


----------



## James-uk

sorrodje said:


> Not really. Warmth and tamed treble are easy and cheap to obtain. A used nfb12 offers this.
> 
> Better amps offer IMO a greater soundstage and better dynamics so low level informations and blacker background is the real reward. Better DACs offer a more real tone with more meat on bones and less digital overall Sound. I have currently an o2/odac combo vs my current set up.
> 
> That's my current feeling.




Volume matched and double blind right?


----------



## Sorrodje

james-uk said:


> Volume matched and double blind right?


 
  
  
 Ah ah ah ah .. You know it's not the case  ... long period  ( weeks and month ) of listening only.  I tried blind test by myself ( I posted some pics of my experiences in this thread) but the volume matching is too hard to obtain.  I can't hear differences in fast A/B but long period of listening teached me more things . you can laugh at that if you want, it will not change my opinion .  You can trust me or not but I did extensive comparison between cheap and expensive gear and the expensive or overally more appreciated gear and the more expensive was not always the winner in my experience ..
  
 When I gave O2/Odac example above , it was not to demonstrate my opinion. it was only to tell I have ( & had) very different gear at home . that's all.  I have not listened the 02/Odac combo enough to have a realiable opinion.


----------



## Sorrodje

toddthemetalgod said:


> But still, some people exaggerate a lot and say things like the HD800 is unlistenable with lower end equipment. It drives people away from them even though they're fantastic.


 
  
  
  I fully agree with that.


----------



## James-uk

sorrodje said:


> Ah ah ah ah .. You know it's not the case  ... long period  ( weeks and month ) of listening only.  I tried blind test by myself ( I posted some pics of my experiences in this thread) but the volume matching is too hard to obtain.  I can't hear differences in fast A/B but long period of listening teached me more things . you can laugh at that if you want, it will not change my opinion .  You can trust me or not but I did extensive comparison between cheap and expensive gear and the expensive or overally more appreciated gear and the more expensive was not always the winner in my experience ..
> 
> When I gave O2/Odac example above , it was not to demonstrate my opinion. it was only to tell I have ( & had) very different gear at home . that's all.  I have not listened the 02/Odac combo enough to have a realiable opinion.




Sorrodje this ^ sums up why I really like your posts . You know how to play the game . I do value your opinion on the O2 vs TOTL though because I trust you have a reasonable perspective on things following this thread. So I'm interested to hear your initial thoughts on the O2 . I imagine you don't prefer it to your other amps which is to be expected but do you value it ?


----------



## Sorrodje

james-uk said:


> Sorrodje this ^ sums up why I really like your posts . You know how to play the game . I do value your opinion on the O2 vs TOTL though because I trust you have a reasonable perspective on things following this thread. So I'm interested to hear your initial thoughts on the O2 . I imagine you don't prefer it to your other amps which is to be expected but do you value it ?


 
  
  
 Not enough time with it yet . I've received it a week ago so  you'll have to wait a bit more for a reliable opinion for my part. and I haven't any TOTL piece of gear except the HD800. 
  
 For sure , HD800 is perfectly enjoyable from an Odac/O2 during one or two hours of music. I prefer it against a Fiio E07k/E09k combo for example. And obviously an O2/Odac and a Metrum/sonett sound almost the same. Almost.... Al is in this "almost" IMO.  I dunno if this is self bias or not but something seems missing with the 02/Odac when I try quick A/B . comparing Tubes vs Solid State is hard  to do though. I had a Meier Corda Jazz and an Old ASL MG head during many month and the Jazz was obviously better ( I did improvised Blind test and I could pick one against the other) but I kept the MG head because I always found the old tube amp brought something special on the table: instruments , sounds seemed to be slitghly more real maybe. It's hard to describe.  Finally what made me decide between the two was the fact My HD800 was plugged in the MG Head HO most of the time.
  
 I had a Hegel HD10 last year and was happy during the first days. A month later, the only think i wanted is to sell both the HD10 and the HD800. I traded the Hegel for the Rega and pleasure was back . Obviously the Hegel was the best DAC though.
  
 I only trust in long period of listening.


----------



## James-uk

sorrodje said:


> Not enough time with it yet . I've received it a week ago so  you'll have to wait a bit more for a reliable opinion for my part. and I haven't any TOTL piece of gear except the HD800.
> 
> For sure , HD800 is perfectly enjoyable from an Odac/O2 during one or two hours of music. I prefer it against a Fiio E07k/E09k combo for example. And obviously an O2/Odac and a Metrum/sonett sound almost the same. Almost.... Al is in this "almost" IMO.  I dunno if this is self bias or not but something seems missing with the 02/Odac when I try quick A/B . comparing Tubes vs Solid State is hard  to do though. I had a Meier Corda Jazz and an Old ASL MG head during many month and the Jazz was obviously better ( I did improvised Blind test and I could pick one against the other) but I kept the MG head because I always found the old tube amp brought something special on the table , instruments , sounds ans musical objects seemed to be slitghly more real maybe. It's hard to describe.  Finally what made me decide between the two was the fact My HD800 was plugged in the MG Head HO most of the time.
> 
> ...



So maybe tube amps add a certain flavour that adds to the hd800s flavour? I like things to be be improved to my taste also but when it comes to audio I want to hear it 'vanilla' . For me the O2 (insert any other transparent amp) provides this clear window into the audio and headphone. I can fully understand anyone saying they PREFER an amp over the O2 and (insert modern solid stated amp/dac) but to say it's BETTER! , that's when I have a hard time just accepting opinions.


----------



## Sorrodje

james-uk said:


> So maybe tube amps add a certain flavour that adds to the hd800s flavour?


 
  
 Maybe. I bought mainly the O2/Odac as a benchmark for other piece of gear and a basic & technically clean combo for heaphone reviewing.  The fact is my Metrum/Sonett is almost as neutral as the O2/Odac  and that the HD800 sounds "HD800 like" on both. For example the HD800 does not sound brighter or darker IMO from the two rigs. I remember the Vali as brighter for example.


----------



## magiccabbage

sorrodje said:


> Maybe. I bought mainly the O2/Odac as a benchmark for other piece of gear and a basic & technically clean combo for heaphone reviewing.  The fact is my Metrum/Sonett is almost as neutral as the O2/Odac  and that the HD800 sounds "HD800 like" on both. For example the HD800 does not sound brighter or darker IMO from the two rigs. I remember the Vali as brighter for example.


 
 How are you liking your DNA sonnet these days? I should have my stratus in a couple of weeks - really looking forward to that


----------



## Sorrodje

magiccabbage said:


> How are you liking your DNA sonet these days?


 
  
  
 I'm going to marry it  . Do yo want more appreciation? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 See the Sonett thread: no tube rolling, no complaint , no post... happy marital life. 
  
 Seriously , I listen to music 3 or 4 hours each day and I have my HD800 since one year now. I tried different thingsand changed my gear many trimes and I went through periods of doubt with the HD800. No more doubts Since I have the Sonett/Metrum combo. I'm still looking for a compliment but basically my HD800 covers all bases for what I listen to.  Sometimes I woud be happy with a bit more forwardness & more "in your face" sound. T1 could have fit the Bill but I hate T1's Nasty treble peak. the Hifiman HE-4 was too close to the HD800 sound but not as good. HE-500 could be a good option but I'm sure another headphone will collect the dust besides my HD800.
  
 So I try new headphones only for fun . The only headphone i did'nt try yet and could be a strong contender is the HE-6.


----------



## LugBug1

^^^^ Don't marry it!!!  It'll change... For the worse. Then you're stuck wif it...


----------



## skeptic

james-uk said:


> So maybe tube amps add a certain flavour that adds to the hd800s flavour? I like things to be be improved to my taste also but when it comes to audio I want to hear it 'vanilla' . For me the O2 (insert any other transparent amp) provides this clear window into the audio and headphone. I can fully understand anyone saying they PREFER an amp over the O2 and (insert modern solid stated amp/dac) but to say it's BETTER! , that's when I have a hard time just accepting opinions.




I really like my o2 with the agdr board in it with my alphas and listen to the combo every night as a bedside rig, but my mainline hd800 pairing is in another league in terms of perceived realism, for me at least. I had hoped to arrive at the opposite conclusion, but hd800s just aren't driven optimally with the o2 when compared to some of the other options out there, even with the agdr board and lme49990 which measures a lot better in various respects, has twice the current for transients and 10x the slew rate. 

It is understandable that you love the idea of objective transparency, but I think it is also important to keep in mind that there are some open questions concerning whether 0 ohm output impedance is really the ideal for all phones and how perceptible TIM caused by heavy use of global feedback is. If your ears prefer the o2 to all alternatives, that's cool. I don't think there's a right answer here. But to many of us who have spent time doing back to back comparisons with other well designed amps, o2 usually doesn't come out on top with hd800s.


----------



## James-uk

skeptic said:


> I really like my o2 with the agdr board in it with my alphas and listen to the combo every night as a bedside rig, but my mainline hd800 pairing is in another league in terms of perceived realism, for me at least. I had hoped to arrive at the opposite conclusion, but hd800s just aren't driven optimally with the o2 when compared to some of the other options out there, even with the agdr board and lme49990 which measures a lot better in various respects, has twice the current for transients and 10x the slew rate.
> 
> It is understandable that you love the idea of objective transparency, but I think it is also important to keep in mind that there are some open questions concerning whether 0 ohm output impedance is really the ideal for all phones and how perceptible TIM caused by heavy use of global feedback is. If your ears prefer the o2 to all alternatives, that's cool. I don't think there's a right answer here. But to many of us who have spent time doing back to back comparisons with other well designed amps, o2 usually doesn't come out on top with hd800s.



I've not heard any evidence yet to convince me that the O2 is anything other than transparent . All you have done here is add another opinion into the ring. You prefer another amp to the O2 . That's fine . But you haven't convinced me it's better. All you have done is show that you PREFER another amp to O2 (insert other boring, modern, consumer, Everyman amp ) 
Also explain optimally to me .....' but hd800s just aren't driven optimally with the o2 when compared to some of the other options out there'. I see it the other way. They are driven optimally by O2 but you PREFER a less optimal amp to alter the hd800s sound to suit your taste.


----------



## OJNeg

James: You should keep your mind open when it comes to amps. To imply all tube amps are overtly coloring the sound is simply incorrect. Triodes can be quite linear when implemented right and provide a certain transparency (yes transparency) that subpar solid state gear lacks. It's something you have to hear firsthand in order to understand.


----------



## lin0003

Any idea how the HD800 fares with the Lyr? I'll be having one come soon and would like to hear some opinions on it.


----------



## James-uk

ojneg said:


> James: You should keep your mind open when it comes to amps. To imply all tube amps are overtly coloring the sound is simply incorrect. Triodes can be quite linear when implemented right and provide a certain transparency (yes transparency) that subpar solid state gear lacks. It's something you have to hear firsthand in order to understand.




I'm pretty certain some tube amps sound transparent. They also look better . Win win. The point I'm making is transparent amps can be had at a reasonable price . I'm going to buy a crack Kit just so I can enjoy building an amp. I will probably like the way it sounds more than my solid state amps but that doesn't mean it's better .


----------



## MattTCG

The Lyr didn't work at all for me with the 800. Too much brute force and not enough finese. Gave it somewhat of a smeared sound IMO.


----------



## lin0003

Ok, I guess if I don't like it I can always sell it on. 
  
 Really interested in trying a Vali though, with all the good things being said about it.


----------



## zilch0md

FiiO X5 (PCM1792A) Line Out > AudioQuest Golden Gate Mini-to-RCA interconnect > *Schiit Valhalla 2* > unmodified HD800 with stock cable
  
  
 I've had the Valhalla 2 playing for two hours now...  and it's getting better by the minute.  I can't resist making some brief comments that I feel are safely warranted by what I'm already hearing.
  
 Having bought the HD800 last December, they are finally beginning to sound like "keepers."  The Valhalla 2 is fresh out of the box, so there's a (slim) possibility it could go downhill from here, but it's currently way, way better than the Schiit Vali and...  way better than the OPPO HA-1, single-ended or balanced, using the same source.  And I don't need to A/B the amps to tell!
  
_The simple fact that* I am no longer annoyed by the HD800 treble*_ tells me straight away that I prefer this amp with the HD800 over anything else I've tried - including the aforementioned Vali and HA-1, as well as a CEntrance DACmini CX, my 15V-powered Meier Stepdance, the iBasso PB2 w/LME49990s and dummy buffers, the Beresford Bushmaster MkII, and a TBI Audio Millenia MG3 speaker amp with a -15.8 dB resistor network.  I've spent several hours with the HD800 on each of those amps (an admittedly mid-to-low-end solid state hodgepodge), but none of them, including the HA-1 can compete with the Valhalla 2 at taming that fatiguing treble.  
  
 I've hung onto the HD800 while literally _tolerating _the edginess, because its most desirable traits have kept me hooked to the belief that there might be an affordable solution.  But It has always been like eating an absolutely perfect, medium rare, aged cut of filet mignon, that's covered with mud - forcing me to consume the bad with the good.  Now, I can finally enjoy it without wincing!
  
 I didn't expect the Valhalla 2 to be a Cavalli Liquid Glass or a DNA Stratus, but it's much better than I had anticipated - a steal at $349.  I've been such a hardcore solid-state guy, I can't believe I'm listening to tubes, now.  
  
 30 days spent with a borrowed Schiit Lyr a couple of years ago, before I had the HD800, was a turn off - as I found I actually preferred the sound of my portable Meier Stepdance to the sound of the Lyr, driving my LCD-2 rev.1.  The Lyr lacked the transparency and detail of the 15V-powered Stepdance, with not all that much better dynamics, across three sets of tubes I tried, including some NOS Mullards.  So, yeah...  I can't believe this particular Schiit tube amp is sounding so neutral, transparent and detailed with the HD800.
  
 I'll stop there for now, except to shout a big *"Thank you!" to purrin* for the fact that when he writes about gear with which I'm familiar, his words nearly always ring true with my own experience and tastes. This made ordering the Valhalla 2 a lot less risky for me, and it's turned out to be a definite win.  Finding a reviewer who has your own tastes, but a lot more experience, and the ability to articulate his opinions, is priceless.
  





  
 Mike


----------



## BournePerfect

There's much more to amps than transparency. The HD800s are capable of well beyond what the O2 can give. I find it funny the loudest sceptics around here are usually the ones who have the least experience, and are the most unwilling to put their prejudices aside and find out for themselves. These types of circular arguments have gone on for years regarding the HD800-but unfortunately it's these same sceptics who are unwilling to take their head out of the sand and learn for themselves-that keep perpetuating the same nonsense.
  
 A shame really.
  
 -Daniel


----------



## Wildcatsare1

matttcg said:


> The Lyr didn't work at all for me with the 800. Too much brute force and not enough finese. Gave it somewhat of a smeared sound IMO.[/quote
> 
> Matt, have you had a chance to try the Lyr 2 with your 800's yet? Had a Lyr 1, briefly, and the Lyr 2 is superior across the board.


----------



## ubs28

Do you guys recommened an external amp when using a Chord Hugo? If so, what amp to use? I'm thinking about the HDVD 800 or HDVD 600 with the Chord Hugo if the sound improves alot.


----------



## JustinBieber

@zilch0md Thank you for the Valhalla 2 feedback. I'm really tempted to grab one for my 800. Though, there is a Crack I can get built already for $<300. Valhalla 2 is actually about $400 for me (damn California sales tax).


----------



## 62ohm

bourneperfect said:


> There's much more to amps than transparency. The HD800s are capable of well beyond what the O2 can give. I find it funny the loudest sceptics around here are usually the ones who have the least experience, and are the most unwilling to put their prejudices aside and find out for themselves. These types of circular arguments have gone on for years regarding the HD800-but unfortunately it's these same sceptics who are unwilling to take their head out of the sand and learn for themselves-that keep perpetuating the same nonsense.
> 
> A shame really.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  
 Agreed, sometimes skeptics who refused to try out various higher-end gear looks like a bunch of people in denial and wanted to believe they don't need to spend more money..
  
  
 On another note, @Sorrodje have you tried the BHA-1 with HD800? If so, what do you think about how it compares to the DNA Sonett 2?


----------



## zilch0md

flysweep said:


> FINALLY.
> 
> Mike.. you've come to the dark side (tubes).


 
  
 Hey!
  
 Yes!   I've been listening for over five hours straight, at this point!  
  
 It's all I can do not to unpack the HD650 I've got boxed up for sale, but I'm so happy with the Valhala 2 > HD800, now, I'm not going to tempt myself into keeping the HD650, too.  
  




  
 Mike


----------



## zilch0md

justinbieber said:


> @zilch0md Thank you for the Valhalla 2 feedback. I'm really tempted to grab one for my 800. Though, there is a Crack I can get built already for $<300. Valhalla 2 is actually about $400 for me (damn California sales tax).


 
  
 You're welcome!  But here's the post that got me researching and thinking hard about the Valhalla 2:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/12615#post_10774632
  
 Mike


----------



## pearljam50000

Hi, has anyone compared the Neumann KH120 to HD800?


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> Hi, has anyone compared the Neumann KH120 to HD800?


 
 Back to monitors are we? I remember the last time this came up


----------



## kphfrail

how does the Schiit Valhalla before the revision to mk2 compare to the Valhalla 2?


----------



## skeptic

james-uk said:


> I've not heard any evidence yet to convince me that the O2 is anything other than transparent . All you have done here is add another opinion into the ring. You prefer another amp to the O2 . That's fine . But you haven't convinced me it's better. All you have done is show that you PREFER another amp to O2 (insert other boring, modern, consumer, Everyman amp )
> Also explain optimally to me .....' but hd800s just aren't driven optimally with the o2 when compared to some of the other options out there'. I see it the other way. They are driven optimally by O2 but you PREFER a less optimal amp to alter the hd800s sound to suit your taste.




James - I think you may have misread me a bit. I acknowledged that this is all ultimately subjective and had intended the qualifier "for me at least" to extend to my sentence about optimal pairings. I've got no agenda here but rather was inspired to pipe in since I (unlike many in this thread) am actually a fan of the o2,just not so much with my hd800s. 

That said, on the tech side, I think there are criteria to consider that are often omitted from discussions of the o2, i.e. my comments above about reliance on heavy global negative feedback to hit certain metrics. This can lead to transient intermodulation distortion which was not a measurement the o2s designer ever shared. Second, output impedance impacts the hd800s FR, as documented in the measurements purrin took. If Senns own amps have an output impedance of 40 ohms, one could certainly posit that Senn thinks that is the ideal spec for its flagship in terms of resulting FR. (Personally I think 40 is a bit high (more bass bloom than is my ideal) and prefer the 16 ohm setting on my mainline to its 32 ohm setting, but you can see where I'm going with this.) Conversely, if you agree with the designer and benchmark and others who think output impedance should always be as low as possible, then the o2 would also be suboptimal because 0 ohm SS amps are available (or you can improve on the o2 with agdrs board). Finally, no one contends the o2 has an impressive slew rate in stock form. Again, I like my o2 but think hyperbole and claims that it is the benchmark for transparency need to go. The wire trumps the o2 across the board, so if measurement first amps are your thing, you might try building one. Part cost is low and smd really isn't that hard. The case work is the only real challenge. 

When you do have a chance to compare your o2 with hd800s to a well designed tube amp, like a mainline, l-2, zana etc., I will be very curious to hear your subjective conclusions.


----------



## pearljam50000

zoom25 said:


> Back to monitors are we? I remember the last time this came up



lol yes, I just never got a definitive answer.
I just find it interesting to know if 1500$ worth of monitors can compete with the HD800 on SQ.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

I'm going to get my computer back up and running after frying my motherboard soon . Pushed too much voltage overclocking and the heat from my radiator fried my North Bridge.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has tried any Foobar2000 or VST cross-feed plugins with the HD800? I plan to try some as soon as I get the computer running.

I noticed this checking the components listed on the Foobar site: http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_dsp_meiercf . Is it any good? By the way, I'm not looking for a head-related transfer function, or virtual surround... just a plain old simple cross-feed.


----------



## Moonhead

If you find a Good active speaker I think they can compete with HD800, but Sennheiser is one hell of a headphone for the money.
Maybe not quite fair compering two very different things, but HD800 will push the limited of what a good active is capable of, so almost equally good just different presentation. 

And back on subject.


----------



## hekeli

How about some speakers that actually produce bass under <50hz. Then a gobload of money into acoustics. Then we might have an even "comparison".


----------



## MattTCG

justinbieber said:


> @zilch0md Thank you for the Valhalla 2 feedback. I'm really tempted to grab one for my 800. Though, there is a Crack I can get built already for $<300. Valhalla 2 is actually about $400 for me (damn California sales tax).


 
  
 For the 800, you want the Val 2 IMO.


----------



## kothganesh

matttcg said:


> For the 800, you want the Val 2 IMO.



Matt, at the risk of repeating yourself, what made you give your nod to the Val 2 over the Crack? Thanks


----------



## MattTCG

kothganesh said:


> Matt, at the risk of repeating yourself, what made you give your nod to the Val 2 over the Crack? Thanks


 
  
 Purrin's advice. And then listening for myself. The crack, which I love with the 650's, was just too mushy and lacked finesse with the 800. With the Val 2 you get both refinement and a touch of OTL warmth. For me the Val 2 corrects the issue with the 800's treble bite and lack of musicality. And all for $350 which is hard to beat IMO.


----------



## Sorrodje

62ohm said:


> On another note, @Sorrodje have you tried the BHA-1 with HD800? If so, what do you think about how it compares to the DNA Sonett 2?


 
  
  
 No I didn't. A friend of mine uses the BHA-1 but It'a long time we don"t have a meet together. And even if I saw it  at a meet it would be hard for me to have a valuable opinion on the Bryston. There's usaually noy enough time and too much ambient noise in meetings.


----------



## PleasantSounds

I had a good listen to the BHA-1 recently, together with P700u, V281 and Taurus mk2. All on the same DAC and the same pair of HD800 in balanced mode.
 Out of the four, IMO the BHA-1 was the least impressive: a tad brighter and harsher than the others. Still it had very good detail and resolution - something you won't find easily below it's price mark.


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> lol yes, I just never got a definitive answer.
> I just find it interesting to know if 1500$ worth of monitors can compete with the HD800 on SQ.


 
 Alright buddy, I'll fill you in. Short and concise IMO version on KH120:
  
 - bass goes down to 52 Hz (actually comes down to it unlike other monitors of that size)
 - 5ish inch drivers, but packed quite a punch! When I went to check on the SPL output, I was surprised.
 - Neutral sound signature
 - One of the least polarizing sound sigs out there. Almost everyone loves them off the start, unlike Focals and Genelecs for example.
 - No rear port, so go ahead and place them against the back wall (which would be a disaster with my HR824s)
 - Truly one of the best at their price point.
 - If I wanted a monitor of that particular size at that price point, I think the KH120 would be my definitive solution
  
 Can they compete with HD800. I've already said on a technical side of things, HD800 will come out on top at that price point, although in enjoyment factor I'd still pick the monitors (although with bigger drivers for deeper bass). Now compare HD800 to some TOTL ATCs and the ATCs beat the HD800 in technicality AND enjoyment. I'll go hide now.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 EDIT: Also, this assumes at least some sort of basic room treatment. Like corners, first reflections, carpets, dead objects, desk reflection (which mess with the low mids), positioning within the space of the room and of course how big the room is.


----------



## Anavel0

zoom25 said:


> EDIT: Also, this assumes at least some sort of basic room treatment. Like corners, first reflections, carpets, dead objects, desk reflection (which mess with the low mids), positioning within the space of the room and of course how big the room is.


 
 Every time I think about finally putting a stereo system together, this is why I don't. *slides headphones back on and queues the music*


----------



## kothganesh

anavel0 said:


> Every time I think about finally putting a stereo system together, this is why I don't. *slides headphones back on and queues the music*



+ several. In my case back to the HD800 and the humble yet mighty Vali


----------



## pearljam50000

zoom25 said:


> Alright buddy, I'll fill you in. Short and concise IMO version on KH120:
> 
> - bass goes down to 52 Hz (actually comes down to it unlike other monitors of that size)
> - 5ish inch drivers, but packed quite a punch! When I went to check on the SPL output, I was surprised.
> ...



Thanks buddy, great post, very good info ^_^


----------



## JustinBieber

matttcg said:


> Purrin's advice. And then listening for myself. The crack, which I love with the 650's, was just too mushy and lacked finesse with the 800. With the Val 2 you get both refinement and a touch of OTL warmth. For me the Val 2 corrects the issue with the 800's treble bite and lack of musicality. And all for $350 which is hard to beat IMO.


 
 Was your Crack speedballed? They're pretty much the same price with SB for me. I'm leaning way towards Val 2 because of Purrin's feedback... I might grab an Amazon card this week and order already.


----------



## Hopup

What about Asus Essence One Muses edition? Anyone heard it with hd800?


----------



## MattTCG

justinbieber said:


> Was your Crack speedballed? They're pretty much the same price with SB for me. I'm leaning way towards Val 2 because of Purrin's feedback... I might grab an Amazon card this week and order already.


 
  
 First no SB and then later added the SB, nicer pot, better tubes ect. Just never had the right synergy with the 800 for me. Damn good for the 650 though.


----------



## kothganesh

matttcg said:


> First no SB and then later added the SB, nicer pot, better tubes ect. Just never had the right synergy with the 800 for me. Damn good for the 650 though.




Now I remember. After a similar conversation , I switched from the Bifrost to the Gungnir and was able to get better SQ (IMO of course).


----------



## RUMAY408

Can anyone on this thread give a subjective/objective guess about pulling out the potential of the HD800 via amp:
  
 For example FiiO E11 = 50%
  
 ALO MKlll = 80%
  
 Once you get above $2K are you getting 95% 
  
 and above 3K = 97%
  
 I know the HD800 scales with the quality of the amp, but what is the end game?


----------



## BournePerfect

Leviathan, apparently. Hopefully.


----------



## drez

Tubes would end _me_, so...


----------



## OJNeg

To other bearded HD800 listeners:
  
 As we all know the HD800 is quite the facehugger and messy hair can interfere with a headphone's seal and soundstage. What amount of facial hair do you guys feel is most synergistic for HD800 listening? Do you guys keep it as clean as possible around the ear or do you roll with a little fuzz to absorb that excess energy?
  
 This is dead serious BTW


----------



## BournePerfect

SS, maybe an LAu?


----------



## sandab

zoom25 said:


> EDIT: Also, this assumes at least some sort of basic room treatment. Like corners, first reflections, carpets, dead objects, desk reflection (which mess with the low mids), positioning within the space of the room and of course how big the room is.


 
 And herein lies the problem.  Real estate here is about $1000/sq ft - even a $20k rig pales in comparison to the cost of the room itself - and then there's the spousal factor....  "You're going to do _what_ to the living room?  Over my dead body!"  To my wife, turning the living room into a listening room full of speakers, sound modifiers, and technical looking audio gear is about as appealing as I'd find turning it into a yoga room...


----------



## Hopup

Can I get something better than Valhalla 2 and Bifrost at the same price?


----------



## kothganesh

sandab said:


> And herein lies the problem.  Real estate here is about $1000/sq ft - even a $20k rig pales in comparison to the cost of the room itself - and then there's the spousal factor....  "You're going to do _what_ to the living room?  Over my dead body!"  To my wife, turning the living room into a listening room full of speakers, sound modifiers, and technical looking audio gear is about as appealing as I'd find turning it into a yoga room...



You know you can listen to your HPs in the lotus pose. Problem solved.


----------



## magiccabbage

rumay408 said:


> Can anyone on this thread give a subjective/objective guess about pulling out the potential of the HD800 via amp:
> 
> For example FiiO E11 = 50%
> 
> ...


 
 When I get the DNA Stratus I can add in some like 
  
 Fiio E11 
  
 Schiit Vali / Modi
  
 Graham Slee Ultra Linear
  
 Woo WA2 + tubes 
  
 DNA Stratus + tubes 
  
 I'll give the percentages when I get it
  
  
 Are you thinking of getting a new amp?


----------



## Sorrodje

rumay408 said:


> Once you get above $2K are you getting 95%
> 
> and above 3K = 97%
> 
> I know the HD800 scales with the quality of the amp, but what is the end game?


 
  
  
 HD800 seems to scale to the quality of the amps indeed so why this ranking based on price range. There's nothing that guarantee without any doubt that a 3K amp will offer a better result that a 100$ amp.  no ?
  
 Moreover I really can't use such percentage to restranscribe my feelings but that's personal. I much prefer words.


----------



## whirlwind

kvtaco17 said:


> My current setup makes my HD800's sound as good as I've heard them!
> 
> Foobar200 with all dat flac/DSD
> AudioGD NFB29
> ...


 
  
 I still have Glenn's OTL firmly in my sights.
  
 The tube rolling options seem to be off the hook, and it seems many can be had for a very reasonable price


----------



## kvtaco17

Whirlwind,its a very good amp, and so far my favorite.


----------



## Zoom25

This is getting blown out of proportion. While you can go all in to get the perfect room, there are still a lot of simple, cheap and effective ways to get decent sound, even in a typical rectangular room, which is what most people have. Play around with the positioning, height of the speakers, throw in a book rack and case in the corners and at the point where the first reflection is. If your room is carpeted then that's great, if not pick up a rug from IKEA for real cheap (the thicker the better, but still better than tiles and wood bouncing off). Make sure your stands are heavy - put weights on it, or use sand. All cheap.
  
 Next time you go around looking for furniture, you can easily find specific designs that will integrate perfectly in to your room that will seem aesthetically and sonically pleasing. If you can't get different stuff, there are still multiple things you can accomplish by strategically relocating your current furniture. I guarantee it. I mean I see people spend thousands of dollars here on cables, dacs, amps, headphones and so on to get the best sound. I'm sure if people were interested enough in getting a rig right, they could play around with some basic positioning, furniture and carpets and still drastically improve the sound from before. It's genuinely not that hard to get decent sound if you put in a few hours planning and moving.
  
 Also, now there's EQ and DSP room corrections that work quite effectively, taking phase and FR into account. You can get decent results with little to no spent money. All it requires is a bit of your time.


----------



## Moonhead

Amen ^ ^ 
Been there, done that.


----------



## Priidik

zoom25 said:


> All it requires is a bit of your time.


 
 Yes, but it won't be quite the real thing either.
 ATH M50 does decent sound, but we want HD800. For me the analogy is that extensive. 
 Awesome room scales speakers up that much, if the speakers are not the limiting factor.


----------



## Zoom25

priidik said:


> Yes, but it won't be quite the real thing either.
> *ATH M50 does decent sound, but we want HD800*. For me the analogy is that extensive.
> Awesome room scales speakers up that much, if the speakers are not the limiting factor.


 






 No one here is comparing M50 junk material to HD800. WIth mid/high range monitors and some non-invasive and cost effective treatment, you can easily get to a very good level that will easily be pleasing as the HD800. I've seen people here spend easily $1000 on interconnects, USB cables, headphone stands, headphone cables. For $1000, you can get kick ass treatment packages from the likes or Auralex and Primacoustic. There is a lot that can be done to improve the sound in each scenario. Now if you inherently have a terrible (and small) room from all aspect, then it's worth it to go headphones only. Otherwise, you can go for it and get very pleasing results.
  
 I know it's possible to build a room from ground up to your preference and speakers, but nearly none of us are in a situation to do that and have to do the best with the hand we've been dealt. I honestly think with some time and effort, you can definitely satisfy your high end expectations, or come quite close. Of course, for those that are perfectionists and want the best but can't mess with their rooms, there is always HD800. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There is always something for everyone.


----------



## Moonhead

zoom25 said:


> :blink:  No one here is comparing M50 junk material to HD800. WIth mid/high range monitors and some non-invasive and cost effective treatment, you can easily get to a very good level that will easily be pleasing as the HD800. I've seen people here spend easily $1000 on interconnects, USB cables, headphone stands, headphone cables. For $1000, you can get kick ass treatment packages from the likes or Auralex and Primacoustic. There is a lot that can be done to improve the sound in each scenario. Now if you inherently have a terrible (and small) room from all aspect, then it's worth it to go headphones only. Otherwise, you can go for it and get very pleasing results.
> 
> I know it's possible to build a room from ground up to your preference and speakers, but nearly none of us are in a situation to do that and have to do the best with the hand we've been dealt. I honestly think with some time and effort, you can definitely satisfy your high end expectations, or come quite close. Of course, for those that are perfectionists and want the best but can't mess with their rooms, there is always HD800.
> 
> There is always something for everyone.




I like your style Zoom, a lot Can learned by room treatment to provide good acoustics.
My speakers sounded horrible until I put some carpet, curtains and furniture in the corners, afterwards it's was on a whole different level.

I have some high-end active speakers that gives me the same level of detail and a different soundstage, but can't give me that lowest bass and that airier top as HD800 is capable off.

Sorry if this is off topic, guys.


----------



## reddog

zoom25 said:


> :blink:  No one here is comparing M50 junk material to HD800. WIth mid/high range monitors and some non-invasive and cost effective treatment, you can easily get to a very good level that will easily be pleasing as the HD800. I've seen people here spend easily $1000 on interconnects, USB cables, headphone stands, headphone cables. For $1000, you can get kick ass treatment packages from the likes or Auralex and Primacoustic. There is a lot that can be done to improve the sound in each scenario. Now if you inherently have a terrible (and small) room from all aspect, then it's worth it to go headphones only. Otherwise, you can go for it and get very pleasing results.
> 
> I know it's possible to build a room from ground up to your preference and speakers, but nearly none of us are in a situation to do that and have to do the best with the hand we've been dealt. I honestly think with some time and effort, you can definitely satisfy your high end expectations, or come quite close. Of course, for those that are perfectionists and want the best but can't mess with their rooms, there is always HD800.
> 
> There is always something for everyone.


I have never considered the m50's junk, poor choice of words. The m50's have been used by a lot of people entering this hobby. Beats may be junk but the ath-m50's are not junk.


----------



## Priidik

zoom25 said:


> No one here is comparing M50 junk material to HD800.
> 
> There is always something for everyone.


 
 I am. Top notch professional monitors from KH, Genelec, Adam or any great speakers do scale from being ~M50 worthy on a standard (or substandard) room to easily beyond HD800 capable in a nice room.
 I know i'm not alone with this opinion.
 I also don't think M50 is junk, its just poor performer next to HD800, as it should be expected.
  
 Reason for me to go headphone route was exactly the room problem. All the carpets and treatment panels that can be physically fitted in the wrong room didn't change it enough for me. Sure it made big difference, but not enough. It was my hobby for 5 years, i have some knowledge too.
 For some people it will work fine and some of my friends still consider speakers in their dorm room better option than top HPs.
  
 I think people are ready to make compromises in different aspects of sound. I can live with HP soundstage and lack of bone conduction. But i don't want to give up coherency and timbral accuracy that headphones can deliver but speakers in my appartment can not.


----------



## Frank I

rumay408 said:


> Can anyone on this thread give a subjective/objective guess about pulling out the potential of the HD800 via amp:
> 
> For example FiiO E11 = 50%
> 
> ...


 
 Thats is going to be very subjective.  For many it will vary with the entire system. Amplifier are  one part of the system. The Viva Egoista for me is my new reference amplifier. The best I have heard the HD800 with but honestly I couldn't say that the V281 in house was maybe 90 percent of that but hard to put a number on it . I know the differences are small and for many they may consider it to be end game solution. Decur has heard this amp and also owns the Tetron and he felt  the Viva was an  endgame type of amplifier, but you pay lots for that. The 10K retail  price will defer many listeners but it is clearly a statement product and my new reference but I could clearly live with the V281 at a much lesser price and be happy as well. The Tetron is excellent as well as the WA5 I sold to buy the Viva. This is my current reference and feel it will  be be around a long time.


----------



## koiloco

zoom25 said:


> No one here is comparing *M50 junk material *to HD800. WIth mid/high range monitors and some non-invasive and cost effective treatment, you can easily get to a very good level that will easily be pleasing as the HD800. I've seen people here spend easily $1000 on interconnects, USB cables, headphone stands, headphone cables. For $1000, you can get kick ass treatment packages from the likes or Auralex and Primacoustic. There is a lot that can be done to improve the sound in each scenario. Now if you inherently have a terrible (and small) room from all aspect, then it's worth it to go headphones only. Otherwise, you can go for it and get very pleasing results.
> 
> I know it's possible to build a room from ground up to your preference and speakers, but nearly none of us are in a situation to do that and have to do the best with the hand we've been dealt. I honestly think with some time and effort, you can definitely satisfy your high end expectations, or come quite close. Of course, for those that are perfectionists and want the best but can't mess with their rooms, there is always HD800.
> 
> ...


 
 That's a little harsh and untrue 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  M50 is absolutely no junk, especially for the $.


----------



## magiccabbage

frank i said:


> Thats is going to be very subjective.  For many it will vary with the entire system. Amplifier are  one part of the system. The Viva Egoista for me is my new reference amplifier. The best I have heard the HD800 with but honestly I couldn't say that the V281 in house was maybe 90 percent of that but hard to put a number on it . I know the differences are small and for many they may consider it to be end game solution. Decur has heard this amp and also owns the Tetron and he felt  the Viva was an  endgame type of amplifier, but you pay lots for that. The 10K retail  price will defer many listeners but it is clearly a statement product and my new reference but I could clearly live with the V281 at a much lesser price and be happy as well. The Tetron is excellent as well as the WA5 I sold to buy the Viva. This is my current reference and feel it will  be be around a long time.


 
 You bought the Viva? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...... Slow down frank! I'll never catch you at this stage!


----------



## Justin_Time

frank i said:


> Thats is going to be very subjective.  For many it will vary with the entire system. Amplifier are  one part of the system. The Viva Egoista for me is my new reference amplifier. The best I have heard the HD800 with but honestly I couldn't say that the V281 in house was maybe 90 percent of that but hard to put a number on it . I know the differences are small and for many they may consider it to be end game solution. Decur has heard this amp and also owns the Tetron and he felt  the Viva was an  endgame type of amplifier, but you pay lots for that. The 10K retail  price will defer many listeners but it is clearly a statement product and my new reference but I could clearly live with the V281 at a much lesser price and be happy as well. The Tetron is excellent as well as the WA5 I sold to buy the Viva. This is my current reference and feel it will  be be around a long time.



 


FrankI,

Did you ever get a chance to listen to the Teton's big brother, the Apex Pinnacle? It is in the same price range and the Viva Egoista. It should be an interesting comparison.

I've heard the Pinnacle for several days--no long enough unfortunately-- so I would love to find out how it stacks up.

Cheers,

J_T


----------



## Frank I

justin_time said:


> frank i said:
> 
> 
> > Thats is going to be very subjective.  For many it will vary with the entire system. Amplifier are  one part of the system. The Viva Egoista for me is my new reference amplifier. The best I have heard the HD800 with but honestly I couldn't say that the V281 in house was maybe 90 percent of that but hard to put a number on it . I know the differences are small and for many they may consider it to be end game solution. Decur has heard this amp and also owns the Tetron and he felt  the Viva was an  endgame type of amplifier, but you pay lots for that. The 10K retail  price will defer many listeners but it is clearly a statement product and my new reference but I could clearly live with the V281 at a much lesser price and be happy as well. The Tetron is excellent as well as the WA5 I sold to buy the Viva. This is my current reference and feel it will  be be around a long time.
> ...


 
 I have not yet but hope to at some point. Two different designs though. This is an 845 tube design.


----------



## Frank I

magiccabbage said:


> You bought the Viva?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It was too good to not want one. I have the prototype still here and the one I bought showed up last week, The prototype may be heading to Denver.


----------



## pearljam50000

How much in % is the HD800 with the Vali?


----------



## BournePerfect

79.13578492%


----------



## pearljam50000

lol


----------



## BournePerfect

It's all relative-and no one can say they've hit the 100% mark. My personal 100% w/ the HD800 was easily the ZDSE, besting even the WA5LE and Luxman P1u by a fair margin. Once I get a Levi-perhaps that ZDSE percentage drops to the ninety percentile or so, for instance.
  
 FWIW, the Vali is probably gets you 90-95% of the way there in the <$1000 range. So really, budget and relativity are to huge factors in all of this.


----------



## pearljam50000

Yes, budget is a big factor indeed.
I can live with 90%-95%, i thought it was much less than that.
You made my day!(;


----------



## rgs9200m

The Pinnacle is definitely the best with the HD800. In fact, it's kind of the only one I like it a lot with, and it is great with it, even with the stock cable.


----------



## BournePerfect

pearljam50000 said:


> Yes, budget is a big factor indeed.
> I can live with 90%-95%, i thought it was much less than that.
> You made my day!(;


 
  
 I said 90-95% _of *amps costing less than $1k. *_


----------



## preproman

rgs9200m said:


> The Pinnacle is definitely the best with the HD800. In fact, it's kind of the only one I like it a lot with, and it is great with it, even with the stock cable.


----------



## BournePerfect

rgs9200m said:


> The Pinnacle is definitely the best with the HD800. In fact, it's kind of the only one I like it a lot with, and it is great with it, even with the stock cable.


 
  
 Would hope so at that price-although I know 2-3 guys that preferred the ECBA over the Pinnacle-at half the price.


----------



## magiccabbage

bourneperfect said:


> Would hope so at that price-although I know 2-3 guys that preferred the ECBA over the Pinnacle-at half the price.


 
 Its very expensive isn't it and ugly to boot


----------



## screwdriver

my friend bought the valhalla 2 for his hd800 and im impressed with the amp for $349 . what a bargain amp for the hd800 that performs very well.


----------



## rgs9200m

Yep, I have read very high praise about the ECBA, so I guess it's a real classic that's stood the test of time (10 year now maybe?). 
 I never heard it.


----------



## RUMAY408

frank i said:


> Thats is going to be very subjective.  For many it will vary with the entire system. Amplifier are  one part of the system. The Viva Egoista for me is my new reference amplifier. The best I have heard the HD800 with but honestly I couldn't say that the V281 in house was maybe 90 percent of that but hard to put a number on it . I know the differences are small and for many they may consider it to be end game solution. Decur has heard this amp and also owns the Tetron and he felt  the Viva was an  endgame type of amplifier, but you pay lots for that. The 10K retail  price will defer many listeners but it is clearly a statement product and my new reference but I could clearly live with the V281 at a much lesser price and be happy as well. The Tetron is excellent as well as the WA5 I sold to buy the Viva. This is my current reference and feel it will  be be around a long time.


 
 Incredible setup 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


magiccabbage said:


> When I get the DNA Stratus I can add in some like
> 
> Fiio E11
> 
> ...


 
 I'm happy with the Meier Daccord/Classic setup, but ignorance might be bliss, with the HD800 I just know every time I've bumped the quality of the setup up the HD800 has scaled right along with it.
 I'm planning to re-cable as well.
 Mahler recommended pairing the Manley Labs Neo Classic 300B and or TTVJ/Millett 307A with the HD800.   
 I'm not knocking other DAC/amps or other setups, I just don't know how much I could be missing.


----------



## rgs9200m

OMG it weighs 100 pounds!


----------



## ruthieandjohn

rgs9200m said:


> OMG it weighs 100 pounds!


 

 ...but we'll put a handle on it, add a Honda generator in a backpack, and call it...
  
*PORTABLE!*


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

ruthieandjohn said:


> ...but we'll put a handle on it, add a Honda generator in a backpack, and call it...
> 
> [COLOR=0000FF]*PORTABLE!*[/COLOR]


I don't even want to imagine the signal quality that would come from a portable generator .


----------



## pearljam50000

How lo can the HD800 go? less than 50hz?


----------



## drez

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf
  
 Not really basshead headphones by any stretch though.  If that is what you are after then you might be disappointed, unless you want to use EQ.


----------



## lin0003

Just got a NAD M51 and man, these 2 are a match made in heaven. The bass is awesome, not lacking at all with my stock HD800.


----------



## wink

Is the starving student an end-game amp for the HD800?


----------



## Frank I

wink said:


> Is the starving student an end-game amp for the HD800?


 
 Wink one of your designs my man.


----------



## skeptic

rumay408 said:


> .....
> I'm happy with the Meier Daccord/Classic setup, but ignorance might be bliss, with the HD800 I just know every time I've bumped the quality of the setup up the HD800 has scaled right along with it.
> I'm planning to re-cable as well.
> Mahler recommended pairing the Manley Labs Neo Classic 300B and or TTVJ/Millett 307A with the HD800.
> I'm not knocking other DAC/amps or other setups, I just don't know how much I could be missing.


 
  
 Attending a good size meet and evaluating for yourself is really the only way to know rumay.  The 307A is a very impressive, super clean sounding tube amp, and I enjoyed listening to it at CanJam LA several years ago.  But despite its $7k price tag (at the time I believe), it was not my absolute favorite in the building with hd800's.  [size=13.3333339691162px]A plane ticket or a road trip is a very worthy investment before going too far down the audio rabbit hole, even in the headphone arena.  [/size]
  
 I might agree to an even trade of my mainline for a 307A, but that would only be so I could sell the 307A and buy 6 mainlines


----------



## RUMAY408

skeptic said:


> Attending a good size meet and evaluating for yourself is really the only way to know rumay.  The 307A is a very impressive, super clean sounding tube amp, and I enjoyed listening to it at CanJam LA several years ago.  But despite its $7k price tag (at the time I believe), it was not my absolute favorite in the building with hd800's.  [size=13.3333339691162px]A plane ticket or a road trip is a very worthy investment before going too far down the audio rabbit hole, even in the headphone arena.  [/size]
> 
> I might agree to an even trade of my mainline for a 307A, but that would only be so I could sell the 307A and buy 6 mainlines


 
 Audio rabbit hole is a perfect description.  The quality vs cost curve on the HD800 is more exponential than logarithmic, just a tougher call. Agree the meets are the way to go.
  
 How tough was the mainline to assemble?


----------



## No_One411

Hey guys, finally joined the HD-800 club. I've always been interested in these headphones, but never actually pulled the trigger until now. 
  
 Currently running from a Vali, which is okay for the moment. At some point though, you start to wonder about possible improvements. I'll probably be seeing a Bottlehead Crack or Schiit Valhalla 2 sometime in my future...
  
 Comfort is amazing, easily the best I've ever had with headphones, alongside the Paradox Slants. Perfect companion headphone imo. 
  
 Do note that my pair has the Anax 2.0 mod, which actually seems to suit my tastes better. Imaging seems to be more accurate, and the treble is at a more acceptable level for me. 
  
 Some people may rather stick knives in their ears then pair the HD-800 with a Sabre DAC, like the Anedio D2 I'm using, but it's surprisingly not terrible. Of course, the Anax mod may help, but I'm not having any major treble harshness or sibilance issues. 
  
 Definitely glad to have joined the HD-800 club. It's one of those things I feel that you can't just audition at meets. I really had to spend some time on my own with these.


----------



## Sorrodje

Congrats @No_One411


----------



## lin0003

no_one411 said:


> Hey guys, finally joined the HD-800 club. I've always been interested in these headphones, but never actually pulled the trigger until now.
> 
> Currently running from a Vali, which is okay for the moment. At some point though, you start to wonder about possible improvements. I'll probably be seeing a Bottlehead Crack or Schiit Valhalla 2 sometime in my future...
> 
> ...


 
 From what I've heard the D2 has quite a nice amp. It might be better than the Vali? 
  
 I used mine with an M-DAC for a while and it was honestly not too bad, but it was quite sterile sounding and a bit lifeless. It was incredibly detailed though. I like the NAD M51 much more for the HD800, they are perfect together IMO. A warmish amp like the V200 helps a little too. 
  
 On the Crack, personally I'm not a fan of the HD800 pairing but they are superb with the HD6X0s. I would also look into a Matrix M-Stage with OPA627 as an alternative, I quite like mine with the stock op amps, but the OPA627 are a huge improvement.


----------



## koiloco

no_one411 said:


> Hey guys, finally joined the HD-800 club. I've always been interested in these headphones, but never actually pulled the trigger until now.
> 
> Currently running from a Vali, which is okay for the moment. At some point though, you start to wonder about possible improvements. I'll probably be seeing a Bottlehead Crack or Schiit Valhalla 2 sometime in my future...
> 
> ...


 
 Hey hey, gratzzzz.  Welcome to the crazy club!  
  
 Btw, I am in San Jose.  Bring your HD800 over to my place sometimes.  It will be great to hear the Anax mod HD800.  I have always wanted to try the mod but not sure how it will sound.
 PM me if you are up for getting together.


----------



## Somphon

no_one411 said:


> Hey guys, finally joined the HD-800 club. I've always been interested in these headphones, but never actually pulled the trigger until now.
> 
> Currently running from a Vali, which is okay for the moment. At some point though, you start to wonder about possible improvements. I'll probably be seeing a Bottlehead Crack or Schiit Valhalla 2 sometime in my future...
> 
> ...




Yesterday I also pulled the trigger on the HD800 to accompany my LCD-3f, listening through Chord Hugo at the moment. So far I don't find it overly bright and loving it with classical music or giving a different feel to some gool vocals. Its a great headphone so far.


----------



## zilch0md

pearljam50000 said:


> How much in % is the HD800 with the Vali?


 
  


rgs9200m said:


> The *Pinnacle is definitely the best* with the HD800. In fact, it's kind of the only one I like it a lot with, and it is great with it, even with the stock cable.


 
  
 Looking only at the numbers...
  
Vali = $129
  
 Pinnacle = $10,000
  
 129 * 100 / 10000 = 1.29%
  
 Thus, if the Pinnacle is "the best" at $10,000, a Vali costing less than 2% of that translates to:  Get one!


----------



## Rossliew

zilch0md said:


> Looking only at the numbers...
> 
> Vali = $129
> 
> ...


 
 Totally agree on that one!


----------



## Zoom25

zilch0md said:


> Looking only at the numbers...
> 
> Vali = $129
> 
> ...


 
  
 When you put it like that, it really puts it into perspective how other non audio folks might think we are complete batshiit crazy.


----------



## No_One411

lin0003 said:


> From what I've heard the D2 has quite a nice amp. It might be better than the Vali?
> 
> I used mine with an M-DAC for a while and it was honestly not too bad, but it was quite sterile sounding and a bit lifeless. It was incredibly detailed though. I like the NAD M51 much more for the HD800, they are perfect together IMO. A warmish amp like the V200 helps a little too.
> 
> On the Crack, personally I'm not a fan of the HD800 pairing but they are superb with the HD6X0s. I would also look into a Matrix M-Stage with OPA627 as an alternative, I quite like mine with the stock op amps, but the OPA627 are a huge improvement.


 
 The D2 does have a nice internal amplifier. However, it seems ... "weaker" (?) than the Vali? In any case, I'm always much higher on the volume pot with the D2. It sounds best past 81, where it becomes a digital attenuator, but since I generally listen at lower volumes, having to go that high scares me. 
  
 I'm probably going to end up with a Valhalla 2. The pairing just makes sense for my current situation. I could definitely consider upgrading to something better in the future. 
  


sorrodje said:


> Congrats @No_One411


 
 Thanks! It was always only a matter of time...
  


koiloco said:


> Hey hey, gratzzzz.  Welcome to the crazy club!
> 
> Btw, I am in San Jose.  Bring your HD800 over to my place sometimes.  It will be great to hear the Anax mod HD800.  I have always wanted to try the mod but not sure how it will sound.
> PM me if you are up for getting together.


 
 Thanks for the warm welcome. 
  
 Sounds good to me. I'd love to let you try the Anax 2.0 mod. I'll send a pm later today and look at possible dates.


----------



## No_One411

somphon said:


> Yesterday I also pulled the trigger on the HD800 to accompany my LCD-3f, listening through Chord Hugo at the moment. So far I don't find it overly bright and loving it with classical music or giving a different feel to some gool vocals. Its a great headphone so far.


 
 I generally listen to classical music, with some electronic music and mostly female vocals. 
  
 On comfort alone, I prefer the HD-800 to any of the Audeze headphones. While none of them sound bad to me, the fit and form factor definitely start to annoy me after a while. 
  
 Stock HD-800 without the Anax mod is also acceptable. I definitely wouldn't mind just having the stock headphone. I simply prefer having the mods there. To each his/her own. Biggest thing is that you should just experiment. 
  
 In my case, the seller I bought from had previously performed and applied the mods himself. It was pretty easy for me to compare.


----------



## Moonhead

no_one411 said:


> Hey guys, finally joined the HD-800 club. I've always been interested in these headphones, but never actually pulled the trigger until now.
> 
> Currently running from a Vali, which is okay for the moment. At some point though, you start to wonder about possible improvements. I'll probably be seeing a Bottlehead Crack or Schiit Valhalla 2 sometime in my future...
> 
> ...




Congrats No One 

HD800 is one stunning headphone with lots of detail, but I guess you know that already. 

All I can say is Schiit Mjolnir is a very poor pairing, I know I'm no the only one in here with that opinion. 
I Haven't tried the Vali2, but it seems like a no-brainer  

Questyle CMA800R is a match made In heaven, a few guys In here have that exact pairing too, I'm not saying you should run out a buy one, 
But differently try to audition one if you can


----------



## Somphon

no_one411 said:


> I generally listen to classical music, with some electronic music and mostly female vocals.
> 
> On comfort alone, I prefer the HD-800 to any of the Audeze headphones. While none of them sound bad to me, the fit and form factor definitely start to annoy me after a while.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I will definitely try the mods, but first I want to experiment with as much desktop amp including some tubes as possible to see how it goes. Luckily dealers will let you try everything they have, so it will be a long journey.


----------



## No_One411

moonhead said:


> Congrats No One
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The HD-800 certainly is an amazing headphone. It's probably the one headphone I was very curious about, but the high price point and rumored pickiness with high end equipment put me off until now. 
  
 It's easily one of the best headphones for classical music, which is what I mainly listen to. 
  
 Thanks for the suggestions with amps. I have read that the Questyle Current Mode amps are a great match for the HD-800. Will definitely try to audition one if possible. 
  
 Valhalla 2 seems to be the best low cost suggestion so far. Seeing how well it does with the Schiit Vali, I'd be hard pressed to disagree. 
  


somphon said:


> I will definitely try the mods, but first I want to experiment with as much desktop amp including some tubes as possible to see how it goes. Luckily dealers will let you try everything they have, so it will be a long journey.


 
 The journey certainly has been long...Even though I have a low post count, I've actually been in this hobby for quite some time. Took a little hiatus when I thought I was perfectly happy with a personal modified T50RP, and a Yamaha YH-100. 
  
 I suppose that now I have a working salary as well, and came out of college with no loans, there are a whole bunch of options open to me now....
  
 Good luck with your personal journey! xP


----------



## doyouknowSBmean

Does a dedicate hd 800 cable influence the headphone that much?


----------



## Moonhead

doyouknowsbmean said:


> Does a dedicate hd 800 cable influence the headphone that much?




Save your Money on a quality AMP, not on High priced hoax cables, imo.


----------



## kokushu

Of all my high end headphone (LCD 2, TH 900, JH 16 Pro) the only headphone I don't mind buying another pair is hd 800.  You could argue which one of the high end sound better but for comfort and what high end should sound like I favor the hd 800 the most.  Sennheiser certainly created a classic for me.


----------



## Justin_Time

doyouknowsbmean said:


> Does a dedicate hd 800 cable influence the headphone that much?



 


How much difference a new cable makes depends largely on YOU, your sonic/musical taste, hearing acuity and tolerance for imperfection, and most important of all, how much you like the current HD800 sound

Different DAC, amps and cable can always improve the sound--from a little to a lot--but if the HD800 with the stock cable sounds fine to you now, then perhaps you do not need those changes.

One thing I learned the hard way: just because a change can improve your gear, not making that change does not make your gear sound any worse.


----------



## skeptic

rumay408 said:


> Audio rabbit hole is a perfect description.  The quality vs cost curve on the HD800 is more exponential than logarithmic, just a tougher call. Agree the meets are the way to go.
> 
> How tough was the mainline to assemble?


 
  
 Not bad, just a bit time consuming.  No individual step is any harder than what is required to build up a crack + speedball (whcih is to say, basic ability to solder, through-hole solder and to carefully follow step by step directions), there are just _a lot _more components and connections to make.
  
 I wouldn't recommend it as a first diy project just because it would likely feel overwhelming, but it probably would still be doable.  Watching a youtube video on through-hole, and building a cheapie O2 board as a warm up (a $40 exercise), would give you all the skills you need though.  Necessary tools for the mainline, IMO, are a decent temperature controlled soldering station, rosin core eutectic solder, auto wire strippers (Ideal 16-26awg are good), and a multimeter.


----------



## Currawong

Guys, please keep cable discussion to the cable forum.


----------



## LargoCantabile

I am an absolute tech ignoramus. Bought my HD800 as a result of watching Covert Affairs on TV and the "blind" guy Gorham always yakking about his Grado Headphones, which lead yo online research which lead to Hi-fi.org which lead to David Mahler which lead me to HD800, my first "cans" and the guy in the shop actually online in Bkk suggested additional purchase of cardas cbales, which I went along with and it sure made a difference for the better. recently I tried being smart ordering silver cables online from HK for my IE80s. They sound hideously shrill and I immediately replaced the old ones. Listening done with an first edition Ak100 and ALO headphone amp. Urg sorry I wrote this while Currawong was posting.


----------



## drez

.


----------



## Pepper

Hey guys,
  
 I just ordered a Bryston BHA-1. So, that means I'm broke. But it also means I have a lot to be excited about!
  
 If you've heard the setup, what do you guys think I should expect? Is there anything I should know ?
  
 Does this count as a fairly end-game setup?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## lin0003

From what I've read, it is a bit bright and is near the top. Not quite "end game", but what is?


----------



## Kiats

pepper said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I just ordered a Bryston BHA-1. So, that means I'm broke. But it also means I have a lot to be excited about!
> 
> ...




Congratulations, Pepper!

I run the amp off a Bricasti M1 DAC from a modded Mac Mini. After the burn in period of at least 100 hours, you can expect a refined and transparent sound. Of course, the other parts of the chain will affect how it sounds. But otherwise, it is a good but underrated amp. 

While I would not characterize it as end game in absolute terms, because that depends on your needs and wants, it is an amp capable of keeping you very contented for quite a while. Do try the balanced output of the BHA-1: you will be surprised how it will add to the sound.

Happy listening!


----------



## Maxvla

Balanced on the BHA-1 is definitely better. I owned one before upgrading to the two amps I have presently. Very good, but not a bargain unless you paid a lot less than sticker.


----------



## PleasantSounds

pepper said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I just ordered a Bryston BHA-1. So, that means I'm broke. But it also means I have a lot to be excited about!
> 
> ...


 
  
 End game means something different to everyone. It's basically a point at which you are satisfied with the sound enough to stop searching for better. Only you can tell if the BHA-1 does this for you. Chances are it will, at least for a while...
 If you are looking for peers approval of your purchase then I guess you got it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Not that it should matter much...


----------



## Canadian411

pepper said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I just ordered a Bryston BHA-1. So, that means I'm broke. But it also means I have a lot to be excited about!
> 
> ...




Hope you knew that bryston is not a real end to end balanced amp.


----------



## Maxvla

canadian411 said:


> Hope you knew that bryston is not a real end to end balanced amp.



Hope you knew that doesn't matter as much as you think it does.


----------



## zilch0md

maxvla said:


> Hope you knew that doesn't matter as much as you think it does.




Roger that!


----------



## Justin_Time

Quote: 





pepper said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I just ordered a Bryston BHA-1. So, that means I'm broke. But it also means I have a lot to be excited about!
> 
> ...


 
 I thought I had my end-game system at least 4 or 5 times. False alarm!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  I finally understood that it’s all about the Journey, not the Destination (Ralph Waldo Emerson , paraphrased).


----------



## Maxx134

zilch0md said:


> Thanks Max!
> 
> I really can't visualize your version of the mod, but it sounds like you've got only Creatology foam on the metal ring and only the white carpet liner on the mesh, right?
> 
> ...




I will then post a pic..



...

HD800 anax2.0 moded without all the creatology foam which alters the soundstage, rather only on the metal ring of driver..
White carpet liner is used without stock black felt which dampen sound when using both..

Going balanced into HA1 with Cardas cable..


----------



## zilch0md

^. Excellent - thank you, again! I've got the materials, so I'll try it...


----------



## whirlwind

I think I have finally made my mind up about which new amp I want for my HD800.
  
 I think I am going to go with Glenns OTL with some added extras


----------



## longbowbbs

whirlwind said:


> I think I have finally made my mind up about which new amp I want for my HD800.
> 
> I think I am going to go with Glenns OTL with some added extras


 
 Great call! Congrats and enjoy.


----------



## mcteague

After years of using a pair of HD580s I got the bug to upgrade. Listened to HD650s, LCD2 and3s, TH900s and HD800s. I found a open box pair of HD800s in perfect shape, with warranty, for 20% off, so I took the plunge. I mostly listen to classical music and these seemed the best for that genre.
  
 After a couple days listening I think they are a keeper. I don't hear any of the sibilance but do understand where the comments about brightness come from. Many recordings are a bit hot and the HD800s just pass that along. While they don't image anything like speakers, the sense of space is one of the most appealing qualities of these cans. That, plus the amazing detail.
  
 Before I ended up with Linkwitz Orion speakers I had several pairs of Thiels so I guess you could say I appreciate clean, detailed sound above all else. The bass of the HD800s does not really stop you in your tracks but it sounds crisp, clear and truthful.
  
 Now, I guess I have to sell my HD580s and old AKG K340s!
  
 Tim


----------



## Sorrodje

mcteague said:


> After years of using a pair of HD580s I got the bug to upgrade. Listened to HD650s, LCD2 and3s, TH900s and HD800s. I found a open box pair of HD800s in perfect shape, with warranty, for 20% off, so I took the plunge. I mostly listen to classical music and these seemed the best for that genre.
> 
> After a couple days listening I think they are a keeper. I don't hear any of the sibilance but do understand where the comments about brightness come from. Many recordings are a bit hot and the HD800s just pass that along. While they don't image anything like speakers, the sense of space is one of the most appealing qualities of these cans. That, plus the amazing detail.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats & Welcome here


----------



## navigavi

mcteague said:


> Now, I guess I have to sell my HD580s and old AKG K340s!
> 
> Tim


 
  
 I recommend using the hd580's as a complimentary pair of headphones. They're still really amazing headphones. If not for that, then just because they are a collectors item  And congrats on the hd800's. Superb choice.


----------



## Canadian411

maxvla said:


> Hope you knew that doesn't matter as much as you think it does.



 


lol.


----------



## skeptic

canadian411 said:


> maxvla said:
> 
> 
> > Hope you knew that doesn't matter as much as you think it does.
> ...


 
  
 Actually, 4 channel balanced may have more cons than pros.  There are 2 channel "balanced" designs like the mainline and DNA amps that are not bridged or differential/push-pull.  These amps use the full circuit whether you are running them balanced or se and, in fact, they avoid the downsides of bridged and differential designs - which give you more power and slew rate, but subject to double the component cost, higher noise, higher distortion (except common mode), and higher output impedance/worse damping.  [Elias Gwinn - an engineer at benchmark discusses this here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/223006/benchmark-dac1-now-available-with-usb/1305#post_3827917)
  
 As others have shared in the past in this thread, DNA has a very nice concise explanation of how center tapped output transformers can be used to achieve a balanced signal without these negatives: 
  


> *Some comments about balanced headphone drive*
> I am frequently asked why the balanced output version does not include balanced inputs. This is because balanced inputs are not necessary to provide balanced headphone drive. Being a single ended amplifier, all it needs for input is a single ended (unbalanced) signal. The Sonett operates single ended triode with transformer loading the plate of the 6H30 amplification tube. The secondary windings on the output transformers are center tapped (and grounded for safety), thereby providing a true, differential, balanced output. Thus, you get balanced drive without the complexity from additional balanced input circuitry or input transformers. Again, the simpler - the better.


 
  
 The myth that "true balanced" (by which, most refer to bal-in/bal-out, 4 channel, push-pull) is somehow "better" for all headphones, irrespective of their actual power needs, simply isn't true.


----------



## Sorrodje

@skeptic : Did your compare balanced and SE mode on your Mainline. I haven't a XLR terminated cable ( I hope having it soon ) so I didn't try Sonett Balanced mode yet


----------



## TwoEars

> The myth that "true balanced" (by which, most refer to bal-in/bal-out, 4 channel, push-pull) is somehow "better" for all headphones, irrespective of their actual power needs, simply isn't true.


 
  
 True to your name, gotta respect that.


----------



## koiloco

skeptic said:


> Actually, 4 channel balanced may have more cons than pros.  There are 2 channel "balanced" designs like the mainline and DNA amps that are not bridged or differential/push-pull.  These amps use the full circuit whether you are running them balanced or se and, in fact, they avoid the downsides of bridged and differential designs - which give you more power and slew rate, but subject to double the component cost, higher noise, higher distortion (except common mode), and higher output impedance/worse damping.  [Elias Gwinn - an engineer at benchmark discusses this here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/223006/benchmark-dac1-now-available-with-usb/1305#post_3827917)
> 
> As others have shared in the past in this thread, DNA has a very nice concise explanation of how center tapped output transformers can be used to achieve a balanced signal without these negatives:
> 
> ...


 
 Amen to that. 
 In my pro audio and recording experience, the major point/benefit of a balanced connection/signal is to eliminate noise/interference.  So if the input is unbalanced, what's the real benefit, if any, for a HP's balanced out? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and please don't tell me "more power"  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I am honestly curious about this and hope to be enlightened also.


----------



## pdrm360

"more power"  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But seriously, I feel the soundstage is wider in balanced setup than the SE.


----------



## koiloco

pdrm360 said:


> "more power"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





  lol.  How are you doing pdrm360.  We haven't crossed posts for a while.


----------



## whirlwind

longbowbbs said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > I think I have finally made my mind up about which new amp I want for my HD800.
> ...


 
 Thanks!


----------



## pdrm360

koiloco said:


> lol.  How are you doing pdrm360.  We haven't crossed posts for a while.


 
  
 I'm Fine, Thanks! Busy at work. How are you buddy?


----------



## skeptic

sorrodje said:


> @skeptic : Did your compare balanced and SE mode on your Mainline. I haven't a XLR terminated cable ( I hope having it soon ) so I didn't try Sonett Balanced mode yet


 
  
 [size=12.8000001907349px]I still haven't gotten around to making a balanced cable for my hd800's, but I've run the mainline both ways with my Alpha Dogs (which arrived balanced, and for which I diy'd a bal->se adapter), and tbh, I couldn't hear any obvious difference between the two outputs (unless, I flipped the selector switch the wrong way that is heh).  By contrast, its very easy to hear a sonic difference when you flip the mainline impedance from 16 to 32 ohms, or back the other way.  (I suspect that because running balanced on a push-pull doubles output impedance, this is actually what most people are reacting to when they discuss "going balanced.")[/size]
 [size=12.8000001907349px] [/size]
 [size=12.8000001907349px]I asked Doc B the same question back when I first bought the mainline, and he commented that he usually can perceive some very subtle improvement in bass by running balanced via output transformer center taps.  He indicated he uses the same concept in his speaker setup at home.  At some point later (and I can't recall in which of the bottlehead amp threads), I believe he commented that the difference was harder for him to discern with the mainline -> hd800's than with his speaker rig.  Really going to have to test this out myself at some point.  Maybe I'll just reterminate the stock cable like brunk and others discussed/depicted in the thread a while back.[/size]


koiloco said:


> Amen to that.
> In my pro audio and recording experience, the major point/benefit of a balanced connection/signal is to eliminate noise/interference.  So if the input is unbalanced, what's the real benefit, if any, for a HP's balanced out?
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 My understanding is in line with yours, but I'm afraid it doesn't extend any further.  The only circuit I'm aware of where you can have se and bal inputs, and a bal output, which supposedly improves in all measurable respects on SE, is using Pass Labs' SuSY patent which recently expired.  (Pass describes this and echoes Benchmark's criticisms of conventional push-pull here: https://passlabs.com/articles/super-symmetric-amplification ).  I believe this is the basis for what Kevin Gilmore and Spritzer have implemented in the new SuSy dynalo mk2 and latest dynahi, but I don't know if any commercial headamps that make use of this topology.


----------



## Zoom25

Thick and balanced cables are quite useful for noise interference problems in studios where you have to do 100 feet runs in some cases with all types of interferences from a variety of equipment. At home on the other hand where cable runs are much shorter and less interference, it's less of a problem.


----------



## koiloco

pdrm360 said:


> I'm Fine, Thanks! Busy at work. How are you buddy?


 

 Same old! Busy too with work, wife, kids and other hobbies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Just got my boy an acoustic drum set (he dislikes my roland electric set) and tried to tune the darn thing but it was a fun experience.  I ended up buying a tune bot.  Problem was solved.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sry!  Back to HD800.


----------



## James-uk

mac>spotify(320kbps)>cheap usb cable>dac1 usb>HD800 (unmodified). all with standard/cheap power cords. stick a fork in me . I'm done!


----------



## Currawong

I suggest it is best to treat each amp on its individual merits and performance rather than worry about whether it is balanced or not. We don't make a big a fuss over the fine details of the other varied topologies available. It is only because we a: Have to change the plug, b: HeadRoom made a big deal out of it years ago with their amps, and C: it was a big deal to people building AMB's Beta 22 that we care about it at all. 
  
 The balanced designs I've had here seem to play well on the HD-800's strengths though, really pushing the soundstage out wide, especially the portable amps which in the past were not good with this.


----------



## RUMAY408

currawong said:


> I suggest it is best to treat each amp on its individual merits and performance rather than worry about whether it is balanced or not. We don't make a big a fuss over the fine details of the other varied topologies available. It is only because we a: Have to change the plug, b: HeadRoom made a big deal out of it years ago with their amps, and C: it was a big deal to people building AMB's Beta 22 that we care about it at all.
> 
> The balanced designs I've had here seem to play well on the HD-800's strengths though, really pushing the soundstage out wide, especially the portable amps which in the past were not good with this.


 
 Any favorite amp or cable, with the HD800?


----------



## longbowbbs

rumay408 said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > I suggest it is best to treat each amp on its individual merits and performance rather than worry about whether it is balanced or not. We don't make a big a fuss over the fine details of the other varied topologies available. It is only because we a: Have to change the plug, b: HeadRoom made a big deal out of it years ago with their amps, and C: it was a big deal to people building AMB's Beta 22 that we care about it at all.
> ...


 
 I am partial to tube amps and Toxic Cables......


----------



## RUMAY408

longbowbbs said:


> I am partial to tube amps and Toxic Cables......


 
 Silver Widows and Cary SLI-80?


----------



## Sorrodje

skeptic said:


> [size=12.8000001907349px]I still haven't gotten around to making a balanced cable for my hd800's, but I've run the mainline both ways with my Alpha Dogs (which arrived balanced, and for which I diy'd a bal->se adapter), and tbh, I couldn't hear any obvious difference between the two outputs (unless, I flipped the selector switch the wrong way that is heh).  By contrast, its very easy to hear a sonic difference when you flip the mainline impedance from 16 to 32 ohms, or back the other way.  (I suspect that because running balanced on a push-pull doubles output impedance, this is actually what most people are reacting to when they discuss "going balanced.")[/size]
> [size=12.8000001907349px] [/size]
> [size=12.8000001907349px]I asked Doc B the same question back when I first bought the mainline, and he commented that he usually can perceive some very subtle improvement in bass by running balanced via output transformer center taps.  He indicated he uses the same concept in his speaker setup at home.  At some point later (and I can't recall in which of the bottlehead amp threads), I believe he commented that the difference was harder for him to discern with the mainline -> hd800's than with his speaker rig.  Really going to have to test this out myself at some point.  Maybe I'll just reterminate the stock cable like brunk and others discussed/depicted in the thread a while back.[/size]


 
  
 Thanks for those inputs   . I'll try with the Sonett. the DNA can run balanced or SE from the same XLR ouput and Impedance and Gain stay exactly the same ( 28 ohms) .


----------



## BleaK

james-uk said:


> mac>spotify(320kbps)>cheap usb cable>dac1 usb>HD800 (unmodified). all with standard/cheap power cords. stick a fork in me . I'm done!


 
  
 Didn't you have the ODAC/O2 combo? Why are you then using the DAC1 when they measure the same?
  
  
  
  
 ...
  
  
 Nah I'm just kidding with you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I went from the O2 combo to DAC1 myself! Then I got a HD800. I thought like you that I was done for good (like the good and scientific objectivist that I was!) Then I LOL'd at the Vali hype that was going on. "They are so st000pid, omg tubes measure badder then my equipment." Well then I was gonna prove them wrong, so I ordered the Vali and was going to send it back the day after I got it! "OMG it has ringing! This thing is BAD and I should feel bad for even trying to listening to it!"
  
 I was already getting the package to send it back when I started listening to it. I wish I could say that I had an ephiphany, but I didn't. What I did however, was sitting up all night listening to all my music, and couldn't get enough. And I didn't understand. Then I tried AB blind testing with the DAC1 HP out, with help from a friend. I could tell them from eachother every time, and each time I preferred the Vali. I didn't know right there why that was, but I can tell you now: it was because *the Vali reproduced music in a more accurate and natural way. *I am not good with words about how things sound. But I am a drummer, and I know how a kickdrum or floor toms should sound in real life. The Vali got that more right then the HP out from DAC1. Easy as that.
  
 Long story short, I gave up my _absolute objectivism_ and instead now embrace sceptisism. I am starting to build up trust against some ears, and while that can *change* over time the best way to find out if you like something is to listen to stuff yourself.
 I am really happy now with my rig, and you should be to! The real *star* of the show is still the HD800. And even if it can sound different depending on what gear used, it's still sound like a HD800. 
  
 I dare you to try the Vali. It's cheap and you can send it back. The only real downside is that you might like it.


----------



## Sorrodje

+1 Bleak ! great post.
  
 Maybe , a long time ago it was harder and far more expensive to test amps and dacs by ourselves. Now, we "only" ( that's still a lot o money indeed , don't get me wrong) have to spend  one or two hundred dollars to buy some very well regarded gear . It's easier than ever to test at home.


----------



## kothganesh

bleak said:


> Didn't you have the ODAC/O2 combo? Why are you then using the DAC1 when they measure the same?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Very nicely put. I bought it, 1 month of listening and put it away for almost 5 months. Purrin's views on the match with the 800 prodded me to give it the proverbial retry. Long story short, its the only amp I use for the 800 now. I have other tube amps as well but the little tyke is just a wonderful amp. As far as the HPs themselves are concerned, I find spending much less time with the orthos and its almost splitsville between the HD 800 and the Stax.


----------



## longbowbbs

rumay408 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I am partial to tube amps and Toxic Cables......
> ...


 
 Why yes! How did you know?...


----------



## Hopup

I'm really interested in valhalla 2 and bifrost uber combo, but in Europe they cost almost 800euros together so I dont know how good deal that is after all?


----------



## zilch0md

@BleaK 

and

@kothganesh

You've both made compelling posts here! Thanks for your insights.

Is your HD800 modded or stock?

Thanks!

Mike




Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






bleak said:


> Didn't you have the ODAC/O2 combo? Why are you then using the DAC1 when they measure the same?
> 
> 
> 
> ...







kothganesh said:


> Very nicely put. I bought it, 1 month of listening and put it away for almost 5 months. Purrin's views on the match with the 800 prodded me to give it the proverbial retry. Long story short, its the only amp I use for the 800 now. I have other tube amps as well but the little tyke is just a wonderful amp. As far as the HPs themselves are concerned, I find spending much less time with the orthos and its almost splitsville between the HD 800 and the Stax.


----------



## BleaK

zilch0md said:


> @BleaK
> 
> and
> 
> ...


 
 Stock here! I suck at DIY so I'll have to wait until someone releases a commercial version. Only a couple more years now _cough cough_


----------



## kothganesh

bleak said:


> Stock here! I suck at DIY so I'll have to wait until someone releases a commercial version to try. Only a couple more years now _cough cough_


 
 +1. I'm reading up on the Anax mod...give me some time


----------



## fzman

kothganesh said:


> +1. I'm reading up on the Anax mod...give me some time


 
  
 Watch Tyl's video - it makes it very clear what is necessary.  The materials are cheap, so you can buy extra and 'practice', i.e., you can throw away the first set you make if they suck....  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Make sure you have a sharp blade and a good surface to cut on - a "cutting board" for mat cutting works well.  Buy extra blades and use a fresh one for each ear and you should be fine.  The mod is easily reversable, and it is probably very hard to actually harm the 800s in the process....
  
 Give it a try!


----------



## koiloco

bleak said:


> Didn't you have the ODAC/O2 combo? Why are you then using the DAC1 when they measure the same?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hahaha, welcome to audio voodoo.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 On a side note, i saw that you have Questyle CMA800R.  How would you compare the Vali to Questyle CMA800R driving your HD800?


----------



## punit

fzman said:


> Watch Tyl's video - it makes it very clear what is necessary.  The materials are cheap, so you can buy extra and 'practice', i.e., you can throw away the first set you make if they suck....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I did try both side by side. I preferred the Stock. The Anax mod "veiled" the treble a bit for me / was a bit too organic.


----------



## BleaK

koiloco said:


> Hahaha, welcome to audio voodoo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The Vali is fun and has great tonality, but it lacks somewhat in resolution, soundstage og layering (look mah, I'm using audiophile buzzwords!). The CMA800R fills in all that with a smooth top end while still being fun in the low registry. If I were to use an analogy it would be a photo. An instragram filtering looks great, are fun and covers bad spots, but if you want the whole picture with all the details, colors like it is (and flaws), you get the point...


----------



## Moonhead

bleak said:


> The Vali is fun and has grat tonality, but it lacks somewhat in resolution, soundstage og layering (look mah, I'm using audiophile buzzwords!). The CMA800R fills in all that with a smooth top end while still being fun in the low registry. If I were to use an analogy it would be a photo. An instragram filtering looks great, are fun and covers bad spots, but if you want the whole picture with all the details, colors like it is (and flaws), you get the point...




+1 

I had the Questyle with HD800 and I can't think of a better word than Bleak described it, like an open window to the music or showing all the strengths And muscle hd800 are capable of. 
If you love everything about HD800 you will love the Questyle


----------



## LugBug1

lin0003 said:


> From what I've read, it is a bit bright and is near the top. Not quite "end game", but what is?


 
 Nope, tis not bright - the recording is, if it is... And I'm afraid that they are indeed 'end game' if you want a transparent headphone.


----------



## fzman

punit said:


> I did try both side by side. I preferred the Stock. The Anax mod "veiled" the treble a bit for me / was a bit too organic.


 
 I thought I was replying to someone else - my aplogies if I did it incorrectly.  I was mostly commenting on trying to fabricate the parts - and not trying the sound, per se, althought they do go hand in hand.
  
 I did mine, and much prefer it to the stock soound, but it is defintiely a choice, a preference....


----------



## lin0003

lugbug1 said:


> Nope, tis not bright - the recording is, if it is... And I'm afraid that they are indeed 'end game' if you want a transparent headphone.


I was talking about the BHA-1 for the HD800.


----------



## LugBug1

lin0003 said:


> I was talking about the BHA-1 for the HD800.


 
 aaahh ignore me, I'm just trying to keep up with the thread.  
  
 I contribute with a bit of nonsense every now and then... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
_(If you plug your HD800 into a vintage NAD amplifier- you won't need to be on here as much. This is what happened to me!.  _


----------



## RUMAY408

magiccabbage said:


> When I get the DNA Stratus I can add in some like
> 
> Fiio E11
> 
> ...


 
  
 It was your original post about selling T1 (I know how much HP's mean to you), and selling off the WA2 to amp for the HD800 I totally get it.  The HD800 opens up so much with source/DAC/Amp, and as much as I like the T1, the HD800 are just better.


skeptic said:


> Not bad, just a bit time consuming.  No individual step is any harder than what is required to build up a crack + speedball (whcih is to say, basic ability to solder, through-hole solder and to carefully follow step by step directions), there are just _a lot _more components and connections to make.
> 
> I wouldn't recommend it as a first diy project just because it would likely feel overwhelming, but it probably would still be doable.  Watching a youtube video on through-hole, and building a cheapie O2 board as a warm up (a $40 exercise), would give you all the skills you need though.  Necessary tools for the mainline, IMO, are a decent temperature controlled soldering station, rosin core eutectic solder, auto wire strippers (Ideal 16-26awg are good), and a multimeter.


 
 I can solder and have the equipment so how does it compare with some of the higher end amps (DNA)?


----------



## kothganesh

fzman said:


> Watch Tyl's video - it makes it very clear what is necessary.  The materials are cheap, so you can buy extra and 'practice', i.e., you can throw away the first set you make if they suck....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you. I will give it a shot.


----------



## Hopup

How big soundstage does Questyle cma 800r have?


----------



## 62ohm

hopup said:


> How big soundstage does Questyle cma 800r have?


 
  
 I don't think that is something that can be mathematically measured..


----------



## Hopup

62ohm said:


> I don't think that is something that can be mathematically measured..


 

 Well no.. but you can compare it to other amplifiers.


----------



## pearljam50000

Since it's almost a Sennheiser speaker lol, Can anyone compare the HD800 to Neumann KH 120? Thanks.


----------



## White Lotus

Picking up my HD800 tomorrow morning..
  
 Excited to be joining the club!


----------



## longbowbbs

white lotus said:


> Picking up my HD800 tomorrow morning..
> 
> Excited to be joining the club!


 
 Welcome aboard!


----------



## kothganesh

white lotus said:


> Picking up my HD800 tomorrow morning..
> 
> Excited to be joining the club!


 
 Congratulations and welcome. Trust your front end will work the 800 to its potential.


----------



## pearljam50000

white lotus said:


> Picking up my HD800 tomorrow morning..
> 
> Excited to be joining the club!



They will blow your mind...


----------



## yates7592

Me too. I auditioned LCD-3, LCD-X and HD800 for a day in a store with several live CD's of my own music (rock, alternate, post-punk). I went in there fully expecting to come out with the LCD-3, or possibly LCD-X. No, HD800 won hands down. LCD-3 and X were dark, claustrophobic, poor dynamics and transients, poor imaging/soundstage. Need I go on?


----------



## Jodet

yates7592 said:


> Me too. I auditioned LCD-3, LCD-X and HD800 for a day in a store with several live CD's of my own music (rock, alternate, post-punk). I went in there fully expecting to come out with the LCD-3, or possibly LCD-X. No, HD800 won hands down. LCD-3 and X were dark, claustrophobic, poor dynamics and transients, poor imaging/soundstage. Need I go on?


 
  
 You left out ridiculously heavy and uncomfortable.


----------



## yates7592

Yes. The comfort factor is massively different. But I would tolerate the discomfort for a gain in sound quality. I should also point out that the recordings I listened to when I auditioned all the cans were my own live concert recordings. So I knew what to expect in terms of live sound reproduction. The HD800 was easily the better compared to either of the Audeze. The drum hits were so realistic. The bass was impressively deep, as was the Audeze but with a sheen of mud on top. Of course the soundstage width and depth were also massively different. All the differentials made it an easy decision.


----------



## Taowolf51

I picked up a used pair of the HD800's a few weeks back and have been glued to them ever since; I'm so utterly impressed with these headphones. I think they may be the first high-end headphone I've owned that doesn't have any kind of downside or drawback, they're really the full package, and it seems like Sennheiser put tons of thought into just about every aspect of these headphones.

The ergonomics are excellent, probably the best of any headphone I've ever tried. They have big earcups, which are very welcome, there is no contact with my ears whatsoever. They're extremely light but still rigid, which is a huge help when it comes to comfort, and the clamp is just perfect. And most importantly, they've created an absolutely excellent headband design. I frequently hate on the poor headband design of a lot of (most) headphones, and Sennheiser has really nailed it with this headband. With the exception of the inset in the middle of the headband (to reduce pressure on the tip top of your head, which is the most sensitive area), the entire headband makes full and even contact on my head. This is very important for distributing weight properly, which substantially helps with comfort. No stupid bumps, no small contact area, and no inadequate padding. They don't disappear on my head quite like the appallingly light Koss ESP-950 'stats, but they provide an extremely comfortable experience with no hot spots, no headaches, and no obvious pressure. I have to give huge props to Sennheiser for nailing just about every aspect of headphone ergonomics, when you lay down over a grand on a high-end headphone, you deserve a headphone that is comfortable enough to enjoy for hours, not just tolerate.
Also, I think the headband adjustment mechanism is super clever, and the fact that the headband (and all fabric parts) can be easily removed for cleaning is just a nice bonus.

Their sound is easily just as impressive as their ergonomics. I did need to make some changes to the frequency response to dial it in for my needs, but I do that with pretty much every headphone. I increased the subbass to be a bit above flat (instead of the gentle curve down they usually have), and reduced the treble spike. With the exception of those small necessary frequency response changes I really love every other aspect of the sound of these headphones. 
Their detail is absolutely incredible, and is something you need to hear to believe. I thought I knew what detail was, I didn't. I did have a decent amount of on-ear time with the HD800 before buying my pair, but I never really noticed how much of a detail monster these headphones were until I had the pleasure of living with them. The detail is slightly exaggerated from what is realistic, though (smaller details are more obvious), but I personally enjoy that, it makes things a little more exciting and fun. 
On top of the detail, the soundstage, imaging, and separation are excellent, of course. The soundstage size isn't mindblowing, but it is a headphone and it's the best I've ever heard in a headphone so I have to give props for that. The separation I think is the most impressive aspect of the three IMO. Everything sounds wonderfully distinct.
The decay is a little short of natural, but it adds to the separation, detail, and texture of the headphone. I prefer it this way personally.
They perform exceedingly well in complicated sections of music. Because of their short decay, excellent separation, and great detail ability, they passed my "complicated music" test ("The Bridgeport Run" by The Flashbulb) with flying colors, a test that has thus far only been passed by 'stats and high end planar headphones. Personally, I think the HD800's may have surpassed every other headphone I've tested in this test. I don't own all the headphones I've tested, so I can't do a side by side to confirm, however.
The texture is just wonderful, I'm a huge texture nut and these have texture throughout the frequency range. Most headphones have texture in one part of the spectrum (bass, mids, or treble), and a few have texture in two of the three. The HD800's are incredibly tactile throughout and I absolutely love it.

I'm actually very surprised people consider these to be clinical sounding, I don't really hear it (though the FR changes may have changed the tone of the headphone). I also don't think they're unforgiving of sources or music mastering quality. Sure, better sources and better mastered music sounds better, but that's true of pretty much any good headphone. My Thiels are unforgiving, if the music isn't excellently well mastered, they're not that amazing, but with really well mastered music they're a completely different beast. I don't feel as though the HD800's are that way (personally).

At the moment, I'm using an ODAC>M-Stage combo on them. My next upgrade will most likely be a Valhalla 2, then a Bifrost Uber.


----------



## lin0003

white lotus said:


> Picking up my HD800 tomorrow morning..
> 
> Excited to be joining the club!


 
 Nice! Not too bassy though.


----------



## zilch0md

Maxx134,

My thanks to you and several other people for encouraging me to try the HD800 mod with the OPPO HA-1. I am thrilled with the results!

FiiO X5 Coaxial Out > HA-1 balanced out > modded HD800

Radiohead's _Everything In It's Right Place_ has never sounded better to my ears and it's a great track for testing treble performance. 

Similarly, Daft Punk's _Tron Legacy (End Titles) _ has precisely the right amount of treble energy for my tastes - with all the speed and control of the HA-1 DAC and amp! So clean and separated - instead of the wall of sound heard with lesser solid state gear, but no annoying treble, either! And the brass section of the following track, _Finale_, is wonderfully textured and "real."

Florence and the Machine's _Cosmic Love_ and Gerald Albright's _Bobo's Groove_ are exhibiting dynamics with the HA-1 > modded HD800 that I just couldn't get with affordable tube amps (with no loss of resolution). The sax and trumpets in _Bobo's Groove_ are right there in front of me - with lots of texture but zero etch. Cymbals have a beautiful decay. Seriously goof stuff! 

I was concerned that the mod would hurt the HD800's soundstage by attenuating those low level signals that do so much for defining the space, but Alice in Chains _Down in a Hole_ , Cowboy Junkies' _Mining For Gold_ and Gypsy King's_ Love and Liberté_ all sound uncompromised in this regard - with the HD800's treble energy pulled down, the micro-echoes are still doing their thing.

The speed and resolution are still there, without the HD800's annoying edginess and the HA-1 is delivering more forward mids, better dynamics, and tighter bass control that I just wasn't getting with the Schitt Vali or Valhalla 2. 

No tube amps necessary!

I'm using balanced Toxic Cables Silver Poison from the HA-1's 4-Pin XLR jack. The intrinsic brightness of the silver cable might explain why, for my tastes, at least, I ended up going with rug liner sandwiched to 1mm thick Creatology foam, after several hours of tedious fussing.

Before insertion:



After:



The HA-1 is now my favorite amp for the PM-1 (balanced OPPO cable with PM-2 pads), the LCD-2 rev.1 (with balanced Silver Poison)... AND the HD800 (modded, with balanced Silver Poison) - one DAC/amp for all three headphones! (That's a big deal for me.)

For the record, the HD800 still doesn't have the wonderful bass of the LCD-2 or the forgiving, organic nature of the PM-1, but they can't touch the resolution and soundstage of the HD800, either (nor comfort).

As much as I'm gushing about the modded HD800 (so happy to get the treble turned down), my LCD-2 rev.1 is still the headphone I would keep if I had to sell all but one - and the HA-1 is my favorite amp for the LCD-2.



Mike


----------



## highfilter

Just got my HD800's a few weeks ago. Amazing piece of gear. Never been a huge headphone guy, but these things offer something special.
  
 I used to be mainly into 2-channel speakers for most of my audio enjoyment, but decided to get a more serious headphone rig when in smaller rooms or for night listening. Went to a local shop and tried out the LCD 2/3's, Alpha Dog and HD800's. I could appreciate the strengths of each headphone, but the HD800's had qualities that every other headphone I've tried just didn't have. Wide open sound, speed/detail that just comes through so effortlessly, plus a balanced tone, for my tastes. Also most comfortable, by far. I actually quite liked the Alpha Dog as well for a closed headphone and it would be nice for a travelling option where a open headphone just wouldn't be suitable, although bass wasn't as defined and seemed slightly excessive. Scooped the HD800's and been rocking through my music collection extensively ever since. Offers some of the qualities I love from a 2-channel speaker system but in a headphone environment.
  
 A note for people having issues with the tonal balance or treble edge of the HD800, I've found a few things to consider. Note I never really thought they were especially bright on my setup, but there were things that increased the performance of these. Running mine stock, S/N 306XX.
  
 1. Treble edge/slight graininess can come from your source (among other things). Not really unique to the HD800, but worth mentioning since the HD800 tells you how it is. Switching from a pretty standard PC (USB -> NAD M51) to a Sonore Rendu (CAT6 -> SPDIF -> NAD M51) was a large and noticeable difference. No need for minutes of listening to notice any differences, they were right up front. With the Rendu, transient attacks were sharper, more focused, had less grain on cymbals etc, and the treble presentation is crystal clear. Transient attacks even more realistic sounding. Music just locks into focus and the tonal balance is amazing. Same experience I have had with my 2-channel speaker rig in the past, but really noticed all the details with the HD800. There's many ways to increase the quality of your source (streamers, USB isolation, SPDIF converters etc.), just try to experiment and don't be quick to blame the speaker/headphone at first.
  
 2. Changing out the stock HD800 cable. Very nice out of the box, but there's more room for performance here. Similar to different cables on a speaker system. Getting a balanced amp in the next month or so, so I went with a balanced cable and a XLR -> 1/4 TRS adapter, so I could use balanced and unbalanced amps with the same cable. Went for a WyWires RED cable since all my other cables for my other rigs are WyWires. Biggest changes I found from going from stock to aftermarket: Bass notes have more variation to them and aren't as 1-noted, same with mid-bass. Both are more full and have more presence. There's more punch/impact to the music. Treble is still fully extended but sounds more natural and musical textures come through beautifully.
  
 Really loving this headphone and can't wait to get a balanced amp to kick things up again. Currently running an Asgard 2, but thinking about Ragnarok or Taurus MKII - both seem like great options. Not a fan of tube amps.
  
 Anyway, back to the music! Running through the Blade Runner soundtrack and it's engaging as it has ever been. When the first track kicks in at around the 1 minute mark, it's lift-off baby.


----------



## kazsud

taowolf51 said:


> I picked up a used pair of the HD800's a few weeks back and have been glued to them ever since; I'm so utterly impressed with these headphones. I think they may be the first high-end headphone I've owned that doesn't have any kind of downside or drawback, they're really the full package, and it seems like Sennheiser put tons of thought into just about every aspect of these headphones.
> 
> The ergonomics are excellent, probably the best of any headphone I've ever tried. They have big earcups, which are very welcome, there is no contact with my ears whatsoever. They're extremely light but still rigid, which is a huge help when it comes to comfort, and the clamp is just perfect. And most importantly, they've created an absolutely excellent headband design. I frequently hate on the poor headband design of a lot of (most) headphones, and Sennheiser has really nailed it with this headband. With the exception of the inset in the middle of the headband (to reduce pressure on the tip top of your head, which is the most sensitive area), the entire headband makes full and even contact on my head. This is very important for distributing weight properly, which substantially helps with comfort. No stupid bumps, no small contact area, and no inadequate padding. They don't disappear on my head quite like the appallingly light Koss ESP-950 'stats, but they provide an extremely comfortable experience with no hot spots, no headaches, and no obvious pressure. I have to give huge props to Sennheiser for nailing just about every aspect of headphone ergonomics, when you lay down over a grand on a high-end headphone, you deserve a headphone that is comfortable enough to enjoy for hours, not just tolerate.
> Also, I think the headband adjustment mechanism is super clever, and the fact that the headband (and all fabric parts) can be easily removed for cleaning is just a nice bonus.
> ...




Nice! Did you buy the pair on craigslist that were priced really cheap?


----------



## Taowolf51

kazsud said:


> Nice! Did you buy the pair on craigslist that were priced really cheap?



 


Yes I did! 
I'm so glad I came across that ad, I knew I would someday have to get the HD800 after listening to it at the Philly meet, and I had just recently sold my LCD-2's to get some work-related gear. It would have been some time before I could have afforded (or justified) an HD800, and was actually the first time I searched "Sennheiser" on craigslist. I was looking for a good headphone to go with tube amps (which I wanted to get into). It was just in time, too, since I moved down to Savannah, Georgia less than a week later.
The padding is a bit flat and they had a bit of a chemical smell (sitting in the box for too long), but after a bit of cleaning and airing out they're in great shape and I'm enjoying the crap out of them! They're a pretty early model, in the late 6000's, but there's nothing that's making me wish for a newer model.

I may break down and get new pads at some point, though.


----------



## White Lotus

Hey Taowolf, when you say you "dial in" changes to the FR, are you using software or hardware to do so?
  
 Two hours left until I pick up my HD800.. Excitement is growing!
  
 I'll be using the following to amp them:
  
 La Figaro 339:

  
 Matrix Mini-i PRO DSD:

  
  
 Anyone have experience with either of these two and the HD800?


----------



## Taowolf51

white lotus said:


> Hey Taowolf, when you say you "dial in" changes to the FR, are you using software or hardware to do so?



 


Software, Equalizer APO to be specific. It allows me to be a little more specific in my changes and allows me to play around and dial it in much faster than I would be able to do with hardware. When it comes to hardware, I focus more on non-FR aspects such as decay, detail, texture, etc. rather than FR simply because they are much harder to change and dial in with software than FR is (if possible at all). If FR changes are needed I do them by software, but only if necessary.
Of course, I still choose amps that pair well with whatever headphones I'm powering.

It's really important to use a good EQ. A bad EQ sounds oh-so-horrible (distortion), but a good quality EQ is an incredible tool.


----------



## White Lotus

IT IS TIME


----------



## 62ohm

Nice Jag XF mate


----------



## Taowolf51

Damn Lotus, nice car!

Awaiting your impressions!


----------



## midnightwalker

Everytime I go to this thread, I miss my HD800 so much


----------



## lin0003

Nice!
  
 Tell us how you find it. 
  
 Just picked up a D5000, it complements the HD800 so well. Complete opposites.


----------



## Moonhead

taowolf51 said:


> I picked up a used pair of the HD800's a few weeks back and have been glued to them ever since; I'm so utterly impressed with these headphones. I think they may be the first high-end headphone I've owned that doesn't have any kind of downside or drawback, they're really the full package, and it seems like Sennheiser put tons of thought into just about every aspect of these headphones.
> 
> The ergonomics are excellent, probably the best of any headphone I've ever tried. They have big earcups, which are very welcome, there is no contact with my ears whatsoever. They're extremely light but still rigid, which is a huge help when it comes to comfort, and the clamp is just perfect. And most importantly, they've created an absolutely excellent headband design. I frequently hate on the poor headband design of a lot of (most) headphones, and Sennheiser has really nailed it with this headband. With the exception of the inset in the middle of the headband (to reduce pressure on the tip top of your head, which is the most sensitive area), the entire headband makes full and even contact on my head. This is very important for distributing weight properly, which substantially helps with comfort. No stupid bumps, no small contact area, and no inadequate padding. They don't disappear on my head quite like the appallingly light Koss ESP-950 'stats, but they provide an extremely comfortable experience with no hot spots, no headaches, and no obvious pressure. I have to give huge props to Sennheiser for nailing just about every aspect of headphone ergonomics, when you lay down over a grand on a high-end headphone, you deserve a headphone that is comfortable enough to enjoy for hours, not just tolerate.
> Also, I think the headband adjustment mechanism is super clever, and the fact that the headband (and all fabric parts) can be easily removed for cleaning is just a nice bonus.
> ...




Thanks for details impressions.

One note thought, maybe consider a upgrade instead of a side grade in the amp department.
Try to audition Questyle cma800r and other high quality amps before opening the wallet


----------



## nightskyraven

Have only had the chance to test out my Sennheiser HD800s with the Asus Essence One USB DAC that I own, but I can attest that the sound seems amazingly detailed and the clarity is second to none. Mids are very well defined, soundstage is big and airy, and the bass, which is widely acclaimed to be somewhat of a weak aspect of the Sennheiser HD800 signature, is extremely tight and punchy, when dictated by the specific piece itself.

  
 I specifically tested the bass on some Hardstyle pieces that I really enjoy, and hardstyle is surely a style that incorporates a tight and pumping bassline.

  
 Vocals are angelic. Absolutely adore the combination, and I haven't even swapped the default cable for an aftermarket one just yet.
  
 I bet I would enjoy the Muses version of the DAC even more, but I will probably be able to afford that one a bit later in the future.


----------



## Moonhead

nightskyraven said:


> Have only had the chance to test out my Sennheiser HD800s with the Asus Essence One USB DAC that I own, but I can attest that the sound seems amazingly detailed and the clarity is second to none. Mids are very well defined, soundstage is big and airy, and the bass, which is widely acclaimed to be somewhat of a weak aspect of the Sennheiser HD800 signature, is extremely tight and punchy, when dictated by the specific piece itself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I Would love to listen to that Asus HD800 pairing, even innerfidelity think it's a supreme match and it looks solid built to, unlike schiit gear.
I doubt that there will be much difference between the standard and muses edition thou.


----------



## reddog

moonhead said:


> I Would love to listen to that Asus HD800 pairing, even innerfidelity think it's a supreme match and it looks solid built to, unlike schiit gear.
> I doubt that there will be much difference between the standard and muses edition thou.



Schiit Audio gear is solidly built, so what gear does not look solid too you.. My friends Gungnir, is solidly built as is his uber bifrost, so please site me an example of a Schiit Audio product, that is not solidly built, especially compared to the Asus HD 800.. Further, Schiit Audio's Ragnarok amp is a very solid 30 pounds and according to Jude's review one the head-fi's Summer Buying Guide, the HD800 sounds really good with Ragnarok, in balanced mode.


----------



## Moonhead

We'll I had Mjolnir/Gungnir for about 14days until I returned it to the seller. 

There where scratches it the metal plates of the brand new amp and dac and the volume knot just feels loose and flimsy as the few buttons.
Biggest disappointment in audio gear by far, lookes like a joke next to the Questyle amp.

I really don't care about what Jude says of the overpriced Ragnarok, I am done with schiit gear.

Back on topic please, I find It very interesting reading impressions on new HD800 owners.


----------



## Nitori

Sounds like a rare case of bad QC to me....I've had Magni, Modi, Gungnir and Mjölnir and all of them came in topnotch condition. A loose and flimsy volume knot is indeed very weird. Oh and of course, who cares about the sound 
  
 But to be fair, Gungnir/Mjölnir combo doesn't really sound optimal with the HD800 anyways..........


----------



## reddog

nitori said:


> Sounds like a rare case of bad QC to me....I've had Magni, Modi, Gungnir and Mjölnir and all of them came in topnotch condition. A loose and flimsy volume knot is indeed very weird. Oh and of course, who cares about the sound
> 
> But to be fair, Gungnir/Mjölnir combo doesn't really sound optimal with the HD800 anyways..........



Yes I agree, I would never use the gungnir/ mjolnir to run the HD800.


----------



## kothganesh

reddog said:


> Yes I agree, I would never use the gungnir/ mjolnir to run the HD800.


 
 +1. Enter the Ragnarok .... Its amazing how picky the 800 is...


----------



## Priidik

moonhead said:


> Thanks for details impressions.
> 
> One note thought, maybe consider a upgrade instead of a side grade in the amp department.
> Try to audition Questyle cma800r and other high quality amps before opening the wallet


 
 How do you know it's a side grade? Have you heard Vallhalla2, if so how does it compares to CMA800?


----------



## Moonhead

We'll everything with valves is a side grade compering it to SS, IMO.


----------



## Canadian411

yates7592 said:


> Me too. I auditioned LCD-3, LCD-X and HD800 for a day in a store with several live CD's of my own music (rock, alternate, post-punk). I went in there fully expecting to come out with the LCD-3, or possibly LCD-X. No, HD800 won hands down. LCD-3 and X were dark, claustrophobic, poor dynamics and transients, poor imaging/soundstage. Need I go on?


 
 +1, very small sound stage for Aud's, I moved on.


----------



## Taowolf51

moonhead said:


> Thanks for details impressions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I'll definitely be looking into other options when the time comes. However, considering the fact that I was only able to afford (well not afford, but justify the price of to myself) the HD800 because I bought it used at an amazing price, I'm not sure I'll be able to throw down the cost of a brand new HD800 on an amp for it. The Questyle does look like a very nice amp, though.

One thing that had me looking at the Valhalla 2 was Purrin's very positive impressions of it with the HD800, calling it something along the lines of a "mini Eddie Current amp".

Regardless, I'm going to be doing a lot more research over the next month or two.


----------



## screwdriver

taowolf51 said:


> moonhead said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for details impressions.
> ...


 
 i use a alo studio six with decware csp3 preamp on my hd800 and it sounds great , im telling u i tried a valhalla 2 and it is an excellent amp for the hd800  and for the price - oh schiit.


----------



## Sorrodje

taowolf51 said:


> moonhead said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for details impressions.
> ...


 
  
 If I were You, I would consider to try another dac before changing the amp.


----------



## paradoxper

moonhead said:


> We'll everything with valves is a side grade compering it to SS, IMO.


 
 Perhaps you should try hearing some gears before dismissing them all. Ignorance is not an excuse.


----------



## Taowolf51

sorrodje said:


> If I were You, I would consider to try another dac before changing the amp.



 



I was thinking about that, I'll most likely make a thread to discuss the merit of upgrading amp vs. DAC first at some point in the near future. I'm more of the opinion that all you need is an audibly transparent DAC, but I'm not 100% of that opinion. I'll most likely weigh opinions and experiences, then make a final decision.

Off topic, but is anyone else having problems with the text editor/post box? Everything is showing up in raw HTML.


----------



## screwdriver

moonhead said:


> We'll everything with valves is a side grade compering it to SS, IMO.


 

 smh


----------



## Sorrodje

taowolf51 said:


> sorrodje said:
> 
> 
> > If I were You, I would consider to try another dac before changing the amp.
> ...


 
  
 it's relatively easy and unexpensive to test different moderately priced but good dacs. F/S forums are your best friend (and the best enemy of your wallet).  Make you own opinion instead of opening an endless thread.


----------



## Moonhead

We'll I listen to a lot of different gear, doesn't matter because one opinion usually gets misunderstood in here, 
Even if one has good intentions.


----------



## Taowolf51

sorrodje said:


> it's relatively easy and unexpensive to test different moderately priced but good dacs. F/S forums are your best friend (and the best enemy of your wallet).  Make you own opinion instead of opening an endless thread.



 


I'm a grad student, money is tight and I'm unfortunately not in a position where I can use money liberally. Buying a few $400-$600 DACs to test and compare is unfortunately not something I'll have the pleasure of doing for awhile, even just affording the Bifrost Uber is going to be something I have to work towards, unfortunately. It's funny, I always recommend ears-on comparisons of gear to everyone who will listen while at the same time not having the pleasure of doing it myself with the exception of the rare Head-Fi meet. 

Of course, my opinions and preferences will have a strong influence on the final decision I make. I'm fairly opinionated when it comes to audio, but only when it comes to gear that I personally buy.


----------



## preproman

moonhead said:


> We'll I listen to a lot of different gear, doesn't matter because one opinion usually gets misunderstood in here,
> Even if one has good intentions.


 
  
 What would that one opinion be?


----------



## Moonhead

Pick one could be anything, people are always skeptical and takes it way to personal if you come with a honest opinion of some over hyped gear.


----------



## Hopup

Can anyone tell how big soundstage does valhalla 2 have? I read some reviews and I remember they said it was not very big and sound was more in your face. Is that true? Can anyone describe more closely how it sounds on hd800?


----------



## Somphon

hopup said:


> Can anyone tell how big soundstage does valhalla 2 have? I read some reviews and I remember they said it was not very big and sound was more in your face. Is that true? Can anyone describe more closely how it sounds on hd800?


 
  
 How to measure the sound stage?


----------



## kphfrail

moonhead said:


> We'll everything with valves is a side grade compering it to SS, IMO.


 
 Have you tried the BHSE? What is your opinion of it compared to other SS amps?


----------



## Hopup

somphon said:


> How to measure the sound stage?


 
  
 I would like to know that too . I just want to know how people who have heard it on hd800 describe the soundstage of the amplifier by words not measurements lol.


----------



## Sorrodje

taowolf51 said:


> sorrodje said:
> 
> 
> > it's relatively easy and unexpensive to test different moderately priced but good dacs. F/S forums are your best friend (and the best enemy of your wallet).  Make you own opinion instead of opening an endless thread.
> ...


 
  
 No need to spend 300 ou 400$ .. There're many options at lower prince.  try an good old audioGD NFB12 for example but a very cheap modi seems to be well regarded and it's really cheap.


----------



## frankrondaniel

hopup said:


> Can anyone tell how big soundstage does valhalla 2 have? I read some reviews and I remember they said it was not very big and sound was more in your face. Is that true? Can anyone describe more closely how it sounds on hd800?


 
  
 I've only had the V2 since last Friday, so it doesn't have much burn-in time if that makes a difference.  I'm also using stock tubes, so tube rolling may make a difference.  But I'm finding the width of the soundstage to be just ok.  Not very much depth either.  Certainly a very "inside the head" rather than an enveloping, 3D or holographic experience.  It also seems somewhat "in your face" - more equivalent to sitting in the front row rather than a few rows back.  I'm curious to see what kind of changes will occur with burn-in and other tubes.


----------



## frankrondaniel

magiccabbage said:


> I wrote a review of the Chord Hugo recently, anyone looking for a good all in one solution for HD800 might be interested. I thought the synergy with HD800 was amazing.  ¬
> 
> http://headphone.guru/chord-electronics-hugo/


 
  
 I personally find the Hugo/HD800 pairing somewhat too bright for my tastes.  Unfortunately It becomes fatiguing for me very quickly.


----------



## Taowolf51

sorrodje said:


> No need to spend 300 ou 400$ .. There're many options at lower prince.  try an good old audioGD NFB12 for example but a very cheap modi seems to be well regarded and it's really cheap.



 


Yes, but I doubt an NFB12 or a Modi will provide a substantial and very noticeable upgrade over the ODAC. The $300-$400 is for DACs that would be considered decent upgrades from what I already have. I'm not looking for different flavors and types of colorations in my DAC. That's what my amp, headphones, and EQ is for.


----------



## Hopup

frankrondaniel said:


> I've only had the V2 since last Friday, so it doesn't have much burn-in time if that makes a difference.  I'm also using stock tubes, so tube rolling may make a difference.  But I'm finding the width of the soundstage to be just ok.  Not very much depth either.  Certainly a very "inside the head" rather than an enveloping, 3D or holographic experience.  It also seems somewhat "in your face" - more equivalent to sitting in the front row rather than a few rows back.  I'm curious to see what kind of changes will occur with burn-in and other tubes.


 

 Thanks for the info. Let me know if the sound changes substantially after burn-in.


----------



## audiokid

After a fair bit of digging around and trying / owning a few high end headphones, I decided to have a demo of the HD800 on my day off and took my Chord Hugo along for the ride.

 First impressions were - wow! Space, detail, textures, depth, deep bass. I had better first impressions than I did with the Stax 009 system I borrowed last week. Absolutely love them, and they're so comfortable and light, not to mention being portable around the house with the Hugo, unlike the 009. 

 I didn't take long to make up my mind, I bought them on the spot. I still love my Stax 507 / 323s combo for the desk, but the HD800s are amazing. Very happy indeed!
  
 Whilst I tried a demo pair, my pair at home haven't even settled in yet and they already sound fantastic. 
  
 As posted in another thread recently, my experiences of other good headphones are as follows:
  
 - Audeze LCD X were a bit too foggy and dark, and were also too heavy and uncomfortable. They were like head clamps! Very smooth sounding though. Nice mids, great bass and well made. 
 - Grado GS1000i were just too bright sounding, but were very light and reasonably comfy.
 - My current Grado RS1i are quite good, although a little on the bright side. Cute little 'phones though, and great for casual use with the iPad. 
 - Also own some Stax 507 / 323s and they're are absolutely amazing. There's something about them I preferred to the 009 / 007tii Kimik, as posted in the Stax thread. I will be keeping the 507 system, but the HD800 have certainly taken a firm place next to them. 
  
 I'm pleased to join the club!


----------



## lin0003

Congrats!


----------



## magiccabbage

ubs28 said:


> Good to read that the Hugo Chord sounds close to your WA2. Now I can't wait till my Chord Hugo arrives.
> 
> I originally ordered it for my Shure SE846, but now I'll use it for the HD800 too probably


 
 I hope you enjoy it as much as i did. The detail with HD800 is very impressive.


kazsud said:


> Very nice review. Looking forward to your stratus impressions when it arrives.


 
 I can't wait for the Stratus - I will do a full review of that as well. A nice long write up and will add to it when I roll tubes. 


frankrondaniel said:


> I personally find the Hugo/HD800 pairing somewhat too bright for my tastes.  Unfortunately It becomes fatiguing for me very quickly.


 
 It is brighter than HD800 for sure but I personally never found it harsh except on a few rare tracks for example the track - Wynton Marsalis, Live at the Village Vanguard, "the legend of buddy bolden". The rest of the album is fine but that one track has slight treble harshness. 
  
 The simple fact is you can always find certain tracks on albums that sound shrill regardless of the headphone you are using. I have never really found the HD800 to be overly bright but if you look at the 2 flagships I own - HD800/T1 maybe I just don't have that sensitivity that others do.


----------



## White Lotus

I actually can't believe how good the HD800 sounds. It's not as "painfully bright" as I remember.. The amount of detail and comfort is absolutely beyond any headphone I've ever heard. It's a clear step up from all other headphones I've owned.
  
  
 Truly amazing.


----------



## whirlwind

white lotus said:


> I actually can't believe how good the HD800 sounds. It's not as "painfully bright" as I remember.. The amount of detail and comfort is absolutely beyond any headphone I've ever heard. It's a clear step up from all other headphones I've owned.
> 
> 
> Truly amazing.


 
  
 Yep, a great can


----------



## skeptic

moonhead said:


> Pick one could be anything, people are always skeptical and takes it way to personal if you come with a honest opinion of some over hyped gear.




Trying to put this as gently as possible, but you are kind of coming across like you're shilling for questyle. 

What totl tube amps have you actually auditioned at length with hd800s to back up your unqualified dismissal of tube amps across the board?


----------



## skeptic

rumay408 said:


> I can solder and have the equipment so how does it compare with some of the higher end amps (DNA)?


 
  
 Nice!  I'm sorry to say that I haven't had a chance to audition DNA's stuff, but to my ears, the mainline does compare very favorably with other high end tube amps I've heard.  Here are some comparative impressions I posted a while back: http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline#post_9831594  Nearly a year later, I am still thrilled with this amp and how beautifully it pairs with hd800's.  
  
 A little bit of interesting history: the mainline and ecp l2, which has also been highly praised as a match for hd800's (among other phones), both [size=12.8000001907349px]derive from a meeting held in Doc's basement back in 2003.  (B[/size]oth amps are excellent single gain stage, regulated, c4s loaded 6c45pi, parafeed amps with quality output transformers.)  Tomb, who works with Doug on the torpedo kits, is the one who first pointed out the similarities.  I made reference to this info/his comment, and it yielded a very cool exchange between Doc and Doug regarding the evolution of the design: http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline/735#post_10604677


----------



## Priidik

skeptic said:


> Nice!  I'm sorry to say that I haven't had a chance to audition DNA's stuff, but to my ears, the mainline does compare very favorably with other high end tube amps I've heard.


 
 It would be most fortunate for us blind-folded folks here next to Russian border if you could arrange a mini-meet with someone with BA, Stratus or/and Rag


----------



## Hopup

I would like to hear your experiences if any of you have used Burson Conductor or Asus Xonar Essence One Muses edition with hd800.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

My Audio Nirvana continues!
  
 I've now had the color-matched Sennheiser HD 800 headphones and HDVD 800 DAC/amp  (see avatar picture) for about two months. 
  
 I find that you cannot really appreciate its differences in a quick listen... you must live with it.  But it is worth it, and I am particularly glad I paid what I considered a high price for the amp.
  
 And I still have the incremental 10% purchase of a Sennheiser balanced cable to look forward to to further improve things.
  
 Even though the HD 800 is not regarded as particularly bass-y, it still communicates bass most effectively, probably both because it communicates the harmonics so well and that it gives a realistic, not enhanced, level of bass.  I unserstand that there may be a bit more (1 - 2 dB) when I eventually get the balanced cable.
  
 I even have my special Headphone Listening Chair!


----------



## White Lotus




----------



## preproman

ruthieandjohn said:


> My Audio Nirvana continues!
> 
> I've now had the color-matched Sennheiser HD 800 headphones and HDVD 800 DAC/amp  (see avatar picture) for about two months.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Did colorware paint your amp as well?


----------



## ruthieandjohn

preproman said:


> Did colorware paint your amp as well?


 

 Yes indeed they did, and at the same time, in the same colors.  I bought both the amp and the headphones from Colorware, a licensed Sennheiser distributor, and so they maintain both the Sennheiser 2-year guarantee on the headphone and amp as well as their own guarantee on the coloring.  The paint they use is actually more chip-resistant (I'm told it is automotive paint) than the original Sennheiser surfaces.  And when you get the Sennheiser parts direct from them, it is only $100 each to color, rather than the $300 or $400 they charge for each if you send in your own.
  
 And of course physics teaches us that Red Headphones Sound Best!


----------



## kothganesh

ruthieandjohn said:


> Yes indeed they did, and at the same time, in the same colors.  I bought both the amp and the headphones from Colorware, a licensed Sennheiser distributor, and so they maintain both the Sennheiser 2-year guarantee on the headphone and amp as well as their own guarantee on the coloring.  The paint they use is actually more chip-resistant (I'm told it is automotive paint) than the original Sennheiser surfaces.  And when you get the Sennheiser parts direct from them, it is only $100 each to color, rather than the $300 or $400 they charge for each if you send in your own.
> 
> And of course physics teaches us that Red Headphones Sound Best!


 
 Dont I know you as the person who has color-matched the HD 800 and the car?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Great looking car BTW. 
  
 Regards from a Wolverine.


----------



## screwdriver

With Norne Audio Draug 2


----------



## Canadian411

screwdriver said:


> With Norne Audio Draug 2


 
  
 I don't believe in cable but it's one nice cable ! very nicely braided.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

kothganesh said:


> Dont I know you as the person who has color-matched the HD 800 and the car?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## kothganesh

ruthieandjohn said:


>


 
 On that bright note, its goodnight from the sub-continent. I know what I'm going to dream tonight


----------



## troymadison

What pisses me off about this headphone is how easily you can scuff it.


----------



## Thad-E-Ginathom

canadian411 said:


> I don't believe in cable but it's one nice cable ! very nicely braided.


 

 I believe that cable can be pretty --- and yes, that one looks great


----------



## whirlwind

screwdriver said:


> With Norne Audio Draug 2


 
 how do you like that cable, and what is the cost ?


----------



## White Lotus

troymadison said:


> What pisses me off about this headphone is how easily you can scuff it.


 
  
 As a brand new owner, please elaborate.. Should I be worried?


----------



## whirlwind

white lotus said:


> troymadison said:
> 
> 
> > What pisses me off about this headphone is how easily you can scuff it.
> ...


 
 Just keep them on the headphone stand when they are not on your head......mine are perfect, but I dont even put them down on my desk


----------



## White Lotus

I've read that you can input your S/N to Sennheiser and receive a frequency response chart.
  
 I'm having trouble finding where to do so - any ideas?
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Taowolf51

I recently contacted Sennheiser about this. You have to register your headphone and request the frequency response chart. It's completely handled by Sennheiser Germany, so it may take some time for you to get it, apparently.


----------



## preproman

white lotus said:


> As a brand new owner, please elaborate.. Should I be worried?


 
  
 Send them to Colorware..
  
 http://www.colorware.com/p-289-sennheiser-hd-800.aspx


----------



## PleasantSounds

white lotus said:


> As a brand new owner, please elaborate.. Should I be worried?


 
  
 Mine are well over a year old (SN 18xxx), and I can't say I'm overly cautious with handling them. So far not a single chip, scuff or scratch. Even the cable does not have any kinks (although I stopped using it a few months ago).
  
 The only signs of wear are fingerprints on the metal foil and of course the velour padding shows some use.


----------



## troymadison

To be fair, it isn't so much the metal part of the headphone but the fabric or kevlar material that seems to easily get scratch. When taking out the cable connector, I scratched it a bit. Oh well.


----------



## Chodi

pleasantsounds said:


> Mine are well over a year old (SN 18xxx), and I can't say I'm overly cautious with handling them. So far not a single chip, scuff or scratch. Even the cable does not have any kinks (although I stopped using it a few months ago).
> 
> The only signs of wear are fingerprints on the metal foil and of course the velour padding shows some use.


 
 Mine are about two years old and have several tiny nicks in the paint It has no effect on the sound so I ignore them. I use mine several hours every day so I refuse to get paranoid about a few nicks. I do take off the pads and clean them every couple of months but that's really easy and the pads bounce back like new after a good cleaning. The sponge nature of these pads absorb sweat and body fluid so cleaning really helps. I immerse them in a liquid solution with a small amount of dish washing liquid and soak them. Then I soak them in clean water and rinse until all the impurities are out. I use a hair drier to get them dry and let them sit overnight before replacing them onto the headphones. They come out like new. I have no doubt over some very long period of time the outer material would wear requiring total replacement, but mine have not reached that point in two years of constant use.


----------



## lin0003

I have had my HD800 for a few months now and they have not got a scratch on them. They are either on my head or on my stand.


----------



## BobJS

lin0003 said:


> I have had my HD800 for a few months now and they have not got a scratch on them. They are either on my head or on my stand.


 
  
 Ditto .... a year and a half


----------



## zilch0md

I routinely use these disposable, elasticized covers on the ear pads of all my headphones.

http://www.amazon.com/Large-Stretchable-Headphone-Covers-Earmuff-style/dp/B009CDXPCG/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1410925756&sr=1-4&keywords=headphone+covers

You can see them on the HD800 in this photo:




The large size is fine for LCD-2, PM-1, and HD600/650, but it's a little tight with AKG K550 and way too large for Amperior or DT1350, where the small size is preferable.

I find them to be cooling with both leather and velour pads and they have no detectable impact on sound quality. Needless to say, the pads stay in mint condition for potential resale.

Mike


----------



## Canadian411

zilch0md said:


> I routinely use these disposable, elasticized covers on the ear pads of all my headphones.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Large-Stretchable-Headphone-Covers-Earmuff-style/dp/B009CDXPCG/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1410925756&sr=1-4&keywords=headphone+covers
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Why ?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Love ya Mike, but there is no way I'm putting those ghetto @ss shower caps on my nice hp's. Nope, not gonna do it. I'll suck it up when it's time and replace the pads.


----------



## Justin_Time

zilch0md said:


> I routinely use these disposable, elasticized covers on the ear pads of all my headphones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


This felt like a recurrent nightmare.

My Mom used to put platic covers on our sofas and chaise longue, in the livingroom. This would keep them looking new and clean for our guests, she told me. But...with those platic covers on, the sofas look horrible most of the time, I objected. We never resolved this disagreemkent .

I am afraid that using those covers on my HD800 would send me into a catatonic state that I may not recover from, a least not without extensive and expensive therapy. 

No. Thanks for the suggestion, Mike, but it's best for my sanity to just buy a new pair of HD800 once the pair I am using is worn out.

Cheers )


----------



## MattTCG

Reminds me of the Everybody Loves Raymond episode where his mother is forced to take the plastic covers off her furniture. HA!


----------



## koiloco

matttcg said:


> ^^ Love ya Mike, but there is no way I'm putting those ghetto @ss shower caps on my nice hp's. Nope, not gonna do it. I'll suck it up when it's time and replace the pads.


 
 roflmao


----------



## BobJS

matttcg said:


> ^^ Love ya Mike, but there is no way I'm putting those ghetto @ss shower caps on my nice hp's. Nope, not gonna do it. I'll suck it up when it's time and replace the pads.


 
  
 Shower caps aka ear condoms.


----------



## bfreedma

Wouldn't use the pad covers myself, but might not be a bad idea for meets.
 Not that I'm accusing a single head-fier of poor hygiene......


----------



## whirlwind

matttcg said:


> ^^ Love ya Mike, but there is no way I'm putting those ghetto @ss shower caps on my nice hp's. Nope, not gonna do it. I'll suck it up when it's time and replace the pads.


 
 Ha ha ha ha ....man, matt.....this made my side hurt from laughing


----------



## potkettleblack

Alright lads!
  
 the chance to have two, two hour listening sessions on the new (20,000plus serial number) HD 800 this week.
  
 I only listened to FLAC files and it was driven by the hdvd 800 amp.
  
 This was the first time I'd listened to this headphone, and it's something I've been waiting to do for a long while. I felt like a kid on Christmas day when I first walked in the room and saw them.
  
 Plus sides:
  
 1. The soundstage was incredible. The placement of instruments and massive feel they give you is something I'd never experienced before, and it completely took me off guard, no matter how many reviews I'd read beforehand.
  
 2. Clarity and detail were second to none. There was nothing this headphone was gonna miss on a song. Not a thing.
  
 3. Classical, specifically piano and orchestral pieces sounded spectacular - enough to make me buy them just t be able to listen to that genre alone.
  
 Jazz also sounded very impressive but seemed to lack warmth.
  
 Downsides:
  
 1. I felt it struggled hugely with Reggae, Pop and Rock (I preferred Reggae on my ps500e's by quite a margin)
 They seemed to lose their life within the shuffle of each track.
 Very thin, cold and anemic sounding.
  
 2. I'd heard that the 800's can be quite harsh and have quite a bit of sibilance with vocals. To my delight in the first listening  session I had I didn't experience any. That was until the last 5-10 minutes, just before I left, when I decided to listen to some Diana krall.
 Her voice hit me like a bloody thunderbolt, like someone had taken an icepick and driven right into my dome!
 I went through a few more tracks and again spike that came with some of the vocals were quite shocking.
  
 This pretty much broke my heart. And I decided not purchase.
  
 I did come back the next day and had an hour comparing them with hd650's, just for ****s and giggles.
  
 Sorry I couldn't really go into details as I struggle to articulate experiences with headphones in the same depth some of you ''audiophiles'' do - I just thought I'd let you know how I felt.
  
 It's a shame such an incredible headphone has such a huge flaw.


----------



## Hopup

potkettleblack said:


> Alright lads!
> 
> the chance to have two, two hour listening sessions on the new (20,000plus serial number) HD 800 this week.
> 
> ...


 

 I have listened all kinds of music in my hd800 and I dont think the headphones have any sibilance on them. They are just so accurate than if the track is even little bit hot/too bright it will definitely sound too hot/too bright. With good quality recordings I have not experienced any sibilance on any music genre. Darker phones will compensate the recordings flaws so if you listen bad recodings you better have darker sounding phones.


----------



## Sorrodje

potkettleblack said:


> 2. I'd heard that the 800's can be quite harsh and have quite a bit of sibilance with vocals. To my delight in the first listening  session I had I didn't experience any. That was until the last 5-10 minutes, just before I left, when I decided to listen to some Diana krall.
> Her voice hit me like a bloody thunderbolt, like someone had taken an icepick and driven right into my dome!
> I went through a few more tracks and again spike that came with some of the vocals were quite shocking.
> 
> This pretty much broke my heart. And I decided not purchase.


 
  
  
 You've Just discovered that some Krall recordings are that bad  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .  I'm so fan of the singer herself BTW. There're a lot of Jazz Singer I much prefer.


----------



## LugBug1

We all hear differently and some ears are just that bit more sensitive to certain frequencies. The HD800 is never going to please everyone or cater for every type of music/taste. This is why contrasting hp's such as Audeze are also very popular.
  
 What I would suggest to the op if he likes everything else about the HD800 is to simply eq the peak down that is annoying. It could be anywhere from 6 to 10 khz but a good eq should pinpoint it. There are modifications available to try also but I would prefer to do a little eq that won't affect the other freq's as much.   
  
 Just a thought


----------



## mcteague

white lotus said:


> I've read that you can input your S/N to Sennheiser and receive a frequency response chart.
> 
> I'm having trouble finding where to do so - any ideas?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
 http://en-de.sennheiser.com/service-support-services-register-your-product
  
 When you enter _HD800_ and click _Continue_, the next page has all the regular fields for data and a box, at the bottom, where you can request the response certificate.
  
 Tim


----------



## nigeljames

I have the HD800's and occasionally I hear excessive sibilance but do not blame the phones for this. Any sibilance I hear is on the disks so I would expect to hear it with a phone as revealing as the HD800's.
  
 The same sibilance is noticeable on all my other phones as well, including the LCD2.2, but can be more obvious on the HD800's due to its clarity/detail and lack of excessive warmth, darkness or rolled off treble.
  
 I have also never heard the HD800's sound thin, lifeless or anemic and that is with a neutral SS amp and silver cables!!


----------



## fzman

Given this on-going dichotomy regarding the 800s  portrayal of thing like sibilance, is  there a consensus whether the 800s sound better 'balanced' vs singe-ended with regard to this issue?  Which amps that provide balanced connection via 4-pin xlrs?  
  
 What I am wondering is whether balanced connection would allow a higher percentage of recordings to meet with the 800's approval - whether balanced would bring over more warm-heads into the 800 fold.
  
 A man can dream, can't he?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

fzman said:


> Given this on-going dichotomy regarding the 800s  portrayal of thing like sibilance, is  there a consensus whether the 800s sound better 'balanced' vs singe-ended with regard to this issue?  Which amps that provide balanced connection via 4-pin xlrs?
> 
> What I am wondering is whether balanced connection would allow a higher percentage of recordings to meet with the 800's approval - whether balanced would bring over more warm-heads into the 800 fold.
> 
> A man can dream, can't he?


 
  
 I don't think balanced or single ended has anything to do with it...


----------



## fzman

bigfatpaulie said:


> I don't think balanced or single ended has anything to do with it...


 
  
 thanks for the reply.  I have read several comments that running the 800s balanced sounds better - was wondering if the alleged Achilles Heel of the 800 would become the Achilles Heal with a balanced connection (and an amp of the right sonic presentation, of course-- that is, for amps that offer both connection options, does the balanced connection to the 800s sound beter in this spedcific way.


----------



## Sorrodje

preproman said:


> I don't hear it either on my pair in my setup.  So I'm a lie to?  Seems like you just go with what the majority say and anything else is a lie.  Seems you are easily persuaded.  No owners of this headphone is scrambling over a negative commit from you - why?  Who cares what you think, we happen the like the headphone and are willing to taylor around it.  May be the Senn amp is to bright? Who knows.
> 
> For you to come here and call people a lie is down right wrong.


 
  
 Take This Diana Krall's recording for example :
  

  
 Sibilance is obviously excessive . Lot of reverb and overally bad recording.  I use this recording to test my gear with the HD800. Unlistenable on inappropriate amp or dac , bearable with better ones . never really enjoyable and I never listen to this album for enjoyement. I"ve "Live in Paris" too and it's better.
  
 Everyone recognize here that the HD800 tend to be brighter than strictly neutral. Flaws in recordings like sibilance are more obvious. That's all.  IMO , YMMV and What.
  
 The Above poster should better listen to Youn Sun Nah instead


----------



## yates7592

@ potkettleblack:
  
 I'm just wondering what cable you used for your listening? Sounds like a small detail but a lot of people, myself included, agree that the stock Senn 1/4" cable is utter *****. Replacing this with an after-market cable can tame the apparent sibilance (as well as fattening out the low-end somewhat). Just a thought. 'Cardas Clear' 4-pin balanced makes a big difference on my set and transforms the HD800 from "almost there" to well and truly there.
  
 Edit - just realised the autochecker is replacing my S-H-I-T-E with ***** !!


----------



## Sorrodje

I'm back to stock cable since the end of august and I've no problem with it. I had a cardas (don't known which one) before. Just saying.


----------



## preproman

sorrodje said:


> Take This Diana Krall's recording for example :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Never will it be "Everybody"  sorry.   What track are you talking about?    I got it playing now.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

potkettleblack said:


> Alright lads!
> 
> the chance to have two, two hour listening sessions on the new (20,000plus serial number) HD 800 this week.
> 
> ...


Honestly, the solution is a coloured amp. Even though that goes against objectivism, an amp with body/weight to the sound and a bit of bass emphasis can really fix the sound of pop and other exciting genres.

My Nuforce HA200 made the HD800 lose soundstage width and made the sound a bit too forward, but it added the perfect amount of body, bass, and soundstage depth... so for me it is now enjoyable for all genres. Of course it took away some of the good about the HD800, but it more than made up for it by fixing it's flaws. I never found the HD800 annoyingly bright even off of my O2, but it is slightly less bright on this amp (probably just due to the increase in volume on the low end tilting the overall frequency response). 

Obviously I do find it bright, but nothing to complain about. I noticed a tiny bit of sibilance in pianos and female vocals, but nothing that immediately jumps out (except on awful recordings). I actually have to focus to hear it, I can't imagine being bothered by it. Then again, I'm bothered by the 10kHz peak on the HE-400 which many people aren't.


----------



## Sorrodje

preproman said:


> Never will it be "Everybody"  sorry.   What track are you talking about?    I got it playing now.


 
  
 First one and all other tracks. I listened to it a few minutes ago at work with a Porta pro and sibilance is obvious to my ears even if its' far less noticable than with my HD800.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

fzman said:


> thanks for the reply.  I have read several comments that running the 800s balanced sounds better - was wondering if the alleged Achilles Heel of the 800 would become the Achilles Heal with a balanced connection (and an amp of the right sonic presentation, of course-- that is, for amps that offer both connection options, does the balanced connection to the 800s sound beter in this spedcific way.


 
  
 There are good amps for the HD800 that are balanced and good amps that are single ended.  I think where there whole, "the HD800 is better balanced" thing came from is that there are more very good amps that are balanced for the HD800's than very good amps that are just single ended.  In addition to that amps that offer both balanced and single ended typically sound better balanced because the balanced connection is wired differently for higher impedance phones with more more power.  The M9, GSX ans Stratus all output less on their single ended outputs vs their balanced ones.  My guess is that the builders are thinking you are using the single ended jack to drive things like IEMS.


----------



## preproman

sorrodje said:


> First one and all other tracks. I listened to it a few minutes ago at work with a Porta pro and sibilance is obvious to my ears even if its' far less noticable than with my HD800.


 
  
 I'm already down to track #6 Love me like a man.   All I hear is great music.  I pair is hardwired with a solid core copper cable.  Maybe that's it.  Not sure.


----------



## Sorrodje

This demonstrates that we have not the same sensitivity/tastes. All I hear in this recording is metallic Piano, too much reverb  and sibilance. Currently playing it.  It's in my opinion a good example of "bloated" Jazz sound . take the "bloated" with a grain of salt. English is not my native language so maybe I use a inappropriately rude word  .
  
 For me , a "near to perfect" recording is for example this Album :
  

  
  
  
 Youn Sun Nah "Lento".
  
 Just notice I can hear some sibilance in his voice but so much less than with Diana Krall.
  
 All ACT recordings are amazing. Ulf Wakenius "Vagabond" is magical.
  
  
 For more classical Vocal Jazz , I often listen to this:
  

  
 Sounds good If I trust my ears. 
  
  
 IMO , YMMV , matter of preference, no offense here and so on...


----------



## potkettleblack

Hi,
  
 I didn't mention that which I should have. It was the sennheiser balanced cable.


----------



## LugBug1

potkettleblack said:


> And having to ''taylor'' around a headphone that costs £1000 pounds to make it sounds right, not just different,  is quite frankly unacceptable.


 
 You mean sound "right" to you... 
  
 Most of the peeps on this thread think it is the most "right" sounding hp there is. It is famous for being the most transparent hp in the world. Now just think about that for a moment... Could it be the recording/recordings that are bad? 
  
 You've already admitted that piano/orchestral (acoustic) music sounds amazing - and classical music is generally very well recorded. 
  
 Now just have a think about it before you cause uproar on here hahah (or is that your plan


----------



## potkettleblack

Thank you for the reply.
  
 A big part of me is still considering this headphone.
  
 If I can somehow curb enough I still might buy it. It just angers me a little that you have to work around things like this.


----------



## LugBug1

potkettleblack said:


> Thank you for the reply.
> 
> A big part of me is still considering this headphone.
> 
> If I can somehow curb enough I still might buy it. It just angers me a little that you have to work around things like this.


 
 Hey, nothings perfect right? 
  
 For a lot of folks the HD800 can be a real eye ear opener, especially when you think you know a recording well. But thats what hifi is all about. And unfortunately there isn't an hp out yet that can make bad recordings sound good and at the same time make great recordings sound as they should. 
  
 But there are a lot of options for taming the HD800's transparent ( treble. So I wouldn't give up on them just yet.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

Well, the same could easily be said for any headphone at this price point. The LCD-2/3 are usually considered darker than neutral, so a bright amp suits them (yet nobody complains because nobody is annoyed by darkness, only brightness). The Stax 007 is considered warmer than neutral, much like the HD800 is considered brighter than neutral.

I don't know why so many people pick on the HD800 specifically. No it's not perfect, but neither is any other headphone at this price point (or any for that matter).

If you don't like the HD800 that's fine, nobody is claiming everyone needs to like it. If you find the HD800 sibilant and bright simply buy an LCD-3/LCD-X/007.


----------



## Canadian411

SOLUTION for you :

Buy few other headphones, HD800 for classic, HE6/Audeze for female vocale, TH900 for fun headphone.

Not sure beat's solo will do enough.


----------



## joe

Guys -- Let's stay on topic and stop the attacks.


----------



## preproman

Has anyone heard the HD800 on the Schiit Ragnarok yet?


----------



## BleaK

preproman said:


> Has anyone heard the HD800 on the Schiit Ragnarok yet?


 
  
 I think purrin did try it. You can ask him. Seems like a nice match.


----------



## Hopup

I have experienced that hd800 is veeery demanding about the quality of recordings. I have also experienced that there really aren't many top quality recordings at any genre of music. If the recording is even little bit less than top quality hd800 can make you hear that.


----------



## Somphon

canadian411 said:


> SOLUTION for you :
> 
> Buy few other headphones, HD800 for classic, HE6/Audeze for female vocale, TH900 for fun headphone.
> 
> Not sure beat's solo will do enough.


 
  
 About right. My HD800 is for classical except violin concerto. LCD-3f for vocals.
 Sometime switch them around for variety in sounds.
  
 Looking for a fun headphone for pop, R&B - mainly mp3s.


----------



## LugBug1

hopup said:


> I have experienced that hd800 is veeery demanding about the quality of recordings. I have also experienced that there really aren't many top quality recordings at any genre of music. If the recording is even little bit less than top quality hd800 can make you hear that.


 
 Depends on how anal you are with recording quality  But even recording quality is subjective. Some think ECM have the greatest SQ going... I on the other hand think it can be a little too soft and warm. 
  
 Are you predominately a music lover or audiophile? Your favorite songs may not be recorded perfectly and so a coloured hp may make them sound better to you. An audiophile will most likely be after transparency as that is the ultimate goal regardless if it makes their favorite song sound like what it is....
  
 Sometimes it can be nice to have a 'fun' hp for some music and an audiophile tool like the HD800 for the appreciation of SQ over the art itself. Having said that, my love is for classical music and I've not heard another hp that comes close to the realism and dynamic required to send shivers up my spine with my favorite pieces.


----------



## koiloco

^ well said!  especially the last paragraph.


----------



## Canadian411

somphon said:


> About right. My HD800 is for classical except violin concerto. LCD-3f for vocals.
> Sometime switch them around for variety in sounds.
> 
> Looking for a fun headphone for pop, R&B - mainly mp3s.



 


I think for mp3, you can give a try to TH600, I never heard TH600 but I think it's close to TH900.
And I really wanted to like LCD2/3/x/xc but not a big fan of an angle pad, just to uncomfortable for me and the weight.

Somehow HE6 works for me and it's heavy as lcds.


----------



## bearFNF

preproman said:


> Has anyone heard the HD800 on the Schiit [COLOR=3B3B3B]Ragnarok yet?[/COLOR]



There are a few general comments on the Ragnarok beta thread. I also listened to my HD800 on the prototype last year and really liked it. It was also the first amp that made me feel like the LCD3 might be worth the money.


----------



## Taowolf51

A good EQ makes fixing frequency response issues so easy, I'm really surprised more people don't use them.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

taowolf51 said:


> A good EQ makes fixing frequency response issues so easy, I'm really surprised more people don't use them.


I would, but I'm terrible at it and am never satisfied with the equalizer I make. For me, it's easier to buy an amp that changes the response and makes the soundstage/imaging more accurate at the same time. Also it reduces distortion, which can be relevant for high frequencies where it is higher.


----------



## zhenya

toddthemetalgod said:


> Honestly, the solution is a coloured amp. Even though that goes against objectivism, an amp with body/weight to the sound and a bit of bass emphasis can really fix the sound of pop and other exciting genres.
> 
> My Nuforce HA200 made the HD800 lose soundstage width and made the sound a bit too forward, but it added the perfect amount of body, bass, and soundstage depth... so for me it is now enjoyable for all genres. Of course it took away some of the good about the HD800, but it more than made up for it by fixing it's flaws. I never found the HD800 annoyingly bright even off of my O2, but it is slightly less bright on this amp (probably just due to the increase in volume on the low end tilting the overall frequency response).
> 
> Obviously I do find it bright, but nothing to complain about. I noticed a tiny bit of sibilance in pianos and female vocals, but nothing that immediately jumps out (except on awful recordings). I actually have to focus to hear it, I can't imagine being bothered by it. Then again, I'm bothered by the 10kHz peak on the HE-400 which many people aren't.


 
 I'm not sure I agree that a colored amp is the best solution, although it may be an inexpensive one. I haven't heard the hdvd800 amp, and potkettleblack doesn't mention what his source was, but the consensus with the HD800 seems to be that it is both very revealing of source and amp. My HD800's are still relatively new to me, but my initial impressions with my old DACMagic was that sometimes I could tame the recording by using my Woo amp, but since switching to the DA8 as a source so far I much prefer sticking with the GS-1, even for recordings that I've always thought of as bright. That tells me that the source was to blame, not the HD800's.
  
 On the other hand, has anyone NOT had the experience of hearing live music that was ear-piercingly bright? Totally dependent on the genre and venue, but I'd say that has been my experience quite regularly so I'm somewhat of the opinion that us trying to 'tame' these recordings is for our own pleasure, not because it is more realistic.


----------



## 50Hz

double post


----------



## 50Hz

taowolf51 said:


> A good EQ makes fixing frequency response issues so easy, I'm really surprised more people don't use them.


 
  
 Exactly...  It doesn't even need to be a 'good' eq. Any digital parametric eq will do the job just fine. I use Equalizer APO.
  
 If I could get a standalone version of Brainworx Digital that would be amazing though haha...


----------



## koiloco

zhenya said:


> I'm not sure I agree that a colored amp is the best solution, although it may be an inexpensive one. I haven't heard the hdvd800 amp, and potkettleblack doesn't mention what his source was, but the consensus with the HD800 seems to be that it is both very revealing of source and amp. My HD800's are still relatively new to me, but my initial impressions with my old DACMagic was that sometimes I could tame the recording by using my Woo amp, but since switching to the DA8 as a source so far I much prefer sticking with the GS-1, even for recordings that I've always thought of as bright. That tells me that the source was to blame, not the HD800's.
> 
> *On the other hand, has anyone NOT had the experience of hearing live music that was ear-piercingly bright? Totally dependent on the genre and venue, but I'd say that has been my experience quite regularly so I'm somewhat of the opinion that us trying to 'tame' these recordings is for our own pleasure, not because it is more realistic.*


 
 +100


----------



## 50Hz

koiloco said:


> +100


 
  
 Headphones are not trying to replicating the sound of a live band though. They are trying to replicate the sound the recording engineer want's you to hear. This is the sound of speakers in a control room which is neither bright nor dull but a balanced sound.


----------



## koiloco

50hz said:


> Headphones are not trying to replicating the sound of a live band though. They are trying to replicate the sound the recording engineer want's you to hear. This is the sound of speakers in a control room which is neither bright nor dull but a balanced sound.


 







 I'd like to stop here before saying things I don't want to say.


----------



## Taowolf51

toddthemetalgod said:


> I would, but I'm terrible at it and am never satisfied with the equalizer I make. For me, it's easier to buy an amp that changes the response and makes the soundstage/imaging more accurate at the same time. Also it reduces distortion, which can be relevant for high frequencies where it is higher.



 


But if you EQ, you can focus more on an amp that increases soundstage and lowers distortion and less on an amp that fixes whatever frequency response problem you have. EQing prevents you from having to limit your options to specific bright/dark amps (depending on the headphone) and gives you more options. Plus, you can more accurately deal with that 6kHz (or whatever) spike instead of broadly reducing the whole treble range with an amp.

I can understand the plight of never being satisfied which leads to unlimited tweaking, though.


----------



## 50Hz

...


----------



## 50Hz

koiloco said:


> I'd like to stop here before saying things I don't want to say.


 
 lol


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

zhenya said:


> I'm not sure I agree that a colored amp is the best solution, although it may be an inexpensive one. I haven't heard the hdvd800 amp, and potkettleblack doesn't mention what his source was, but the consensus with the HD800 seems to be that it is both very revealing of source and amp. My HD800's are still relatively new to me, but my initial impressions with my old DACMagic was that sometimes I could tame the recording by using my Woo amp, but since switching to the DA8 as a source so far I much prefer sticking with the GS-1, even for recordings that I've always thought of as bright. That tells me that the source was to blame, not the HD800's.
> 
> On the other hand, has anyone NOT had the experience of hearing live music that was ear-piercingly bright? Totally dependent on the genre and venue, but I'd say that has been my experience quite regularly so I'm somewhat of the opinion that us trying to 'tame' these recordings is for our own pleasure, not because it is more realistic.


If I could EQ decently I probably would've just gone that route. I was in need of a better amp since I was using an O2 and selected my HA200 based on impressions that it increased body on the HD800 without altering the neutrality too much. While it is a bit forward and a small amount of width was lost, everything else was improved. I'm satisfied with it. Just need a good DAC now.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

taowolf51 said:


> toddthemetalgod said:
> 
> 
> > I would, but I'm terrible at it and am never satisfied with the equalizer I make. For me, it's easier to buy an amp that changes the response and makes the soundstage/imaging more accurate at the same time. Also it reduces distortion, which can be relevant for high frequencies where it is higher.
> ...


Well I'm just genuinely un-knowledgable and unskilled with equalization. If I could make a smooth, accurate parametric EQ I would. All the equalizers I make just sound like a poorly engineering version of the original product, LOL.

I like the way the HD800 sounds with my coloured amp anyway though. It's not perfect, but I personally think it is far good enough. This is the sort of sound I hoped for from a high-end headphone.


----------



## audiokid

Hi, as a newcomer to the HD800 club, I have started thinking about amps. I currently drive mine through a Chord Hugo. Is there any benefit to adding a separate amp, such as the Lehmann Black Cube Linear, as apparently this is considered a demo amp by Sennheiser? 

Or, just stick with the Hugo? It seems to drive them ok, but have never heard the HD800 with anything else.


----------



## lin0003

audiokid said:


> Hi, as a newcomer to the HD800 club, I have started thinking about amps. I currently drive mine through a Chord Hugo. Is there any benefit to adding a separate amp, such as the Lehmann Black Cube Linear, as apparently this is considered a demo amp by Sennheiser?
> 
> Or, just stick with the Hugo? It seems to drive them ok, but have never heard the HD800 with anything else.


 
 Although a lot of people seem to love the Hugo, I'm sure you can do a ton better for the price. Why use a portable DAC/amp when you can get much better for $2000? The Lehmann is supposedly quite good, but the M-Stage is essentially a clone at a fraction of the price. I own one and it is indeed great for the price. If you are looking for something higher end, I use the Violectric V200 myself because it has a smoother sig; they pair rather well. For $1K they are not bad at all. And then there is the HDVA600 and Master 9 if you want to go balanced. 
  
 Lots of tube options too, but I'm not familiar with them because I prefer solid state. 
  
 What is your budget?


----------



## audiokid

Hi, don't really have a fixed budget yet, but if like the amp to be physically compact (ish) as it needs to fit on a desk - hence to the Black Cube idea. The Hugo is good as I use it elsewhere on various systems at the moment. It's a versatile piece of kit.


----------



## Sorrodje

audiokid said:


> Hi, as a newcomer to the HD800 club, I have started thinking about amps. I currently drive mine through a Chord Hugo. Is there any benefit to adding a separate amp, such as the Lehmann Black Cube Linear, as apparently this is considered a demo amp by Sennheiser?
> 
> Or, just stick with the Hugo? It seems to drive them ok, but have never heard the HD800 with anything else.


 
  
  
 If it seems OK for You, Stay with the Hugo and just wait to have opportunities to listen to different gear. Then You'll be able to make you own opinion.


----------



## Somphon

audiokid said:


> Hi, don't really have a fixed budget yet, but if like the amp to be physically compact (ish) as it needs to fit on a desk - hence to the Black Cube idea. The Hugo is good as I use it elsewhere on various systems at the moment. It's a versatile piece of kit.


 
 I've audition several desktop amp but sticking to Hugo at the moment as I don't see improvements in SQ (IMO).
 If I decide to get a desktop amp for my HD800 it will be Aurorasounds Heada. The sound I got from the audition still stuck in my mind.


----------



## zilch0md

You guys are killing me, but I have to admit, I'm laughing, too, reading everyone's response to my use of "ghetto @ass shower caps".
  





  
  



Spoiler: Unexpected reactions...



Quote:


canadian411 said:


> Why ?


 
  
  


matttcg said:


> ^^ Love ya Mike, but there is no way I'm putting those ghetto @ss shower caps on my nice hp's. Nope, not gonna do it. I'll suck it up when it's time and replace the pads.


 
  
  


justin_time said:


> > Originally Posted by *zilch0md* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> >
> > I routinely use these disposable, elasticized covers on the ear pads of all my headphones.
> >
> ...


 
  


matttcg said:


> Reminds me of the Everybody Loves Raymond episode where his mother is forced to take the plastic covers off her furniture. HA!


 
  


koiloco said:


> roflmao


 
  


bobjs said:


> Shower caps aka ear condoms.


 
  


whirlwind said:


> Ha ha ha ha ....man, matt.....this made my side hurt from laughing


 
  


  
  
  Given the unanimous response, I'm starting to think I must have a fetish.  LOL
  
 I might as well stick the other foot in my mouth by adding that I actually use "ghetto @ass shower caps" as raincoats for my camera gear when I shoot landscapes (always with a tripod) in the rain.  
  
 I keep two of these in my Lowe Pro camera backpack, I hardly notice the extra weight - and these things are awesome for covering gear between exposures, even in a heavy rain.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Betty-Dain-Plastic-Processing-clear/dp/B005GXQM1M
  
 Highly recommended! 
  




  
 (ghetto girl not included)
  
 Is it just me, or do I detect some measure of embarrassment in her smile - that she's having to pose in that thing?


----------



## Sorrodje

L.O.L!


----------



## zilch0md

Getting back on topic...
  

  
 Five days later, I'm thinking my modded HD800 is a poor man's version of the LCD-3, but probably with less bass energy, even though I know the LCD-3 doesn't have quite the bass coloration of my LCD-2 rev. 1.
  
 I've been listening to whole tracks then swapping between the modded HD800 and LCD-2 rev. 1.  Five days in, I've concluded that I just cannot part with either headphone.  I'd sooner sell the PM-1 with the brighter, more transparent sounding PM-2-style pads, than either the HD800 or LCD-2 - as long as I can keep the OPPO HA-1 and balanced cables on which the LCD-2 is dependent. (The H800 and PM-1 don't really need the HA-1's power.)
  
*Strengths of the LCD-2 rev. 1 over the modded HD800 (for my tastes):*
  
 Bass Energy
 Naturalness
 Body or fullness
 Forgiving nature
 Fun factor

*Strengths of the modded HD800 over the LCD-2 (for my tastes):*
  
 Treble energy (no longer fatiguing, thanks to the mod, and certainly preferable to the LCD-2 rev.1)
 Resolution
 Soundstage
 Imaging (separation)
 Bass control (speed and texture)
 Comfort (not a sonic trait, but it has to be mentioned)
  
  
 I can only imagine a headphone that gets everything right, but at this point, if I had to pick just one, it would be the LCD-2 rev.1, because I value its strengths more than those of the HD800, but it's really a close call - and a difficult call, because they are so different from each other.  To score them, I'd give the LCD-2 rev. 1 an 8 out of 10, where the modded HD800 gets a 7 out of 10, for my tastes.
  
 Note that I'm comparing these chains - my observations are irrelevant to other contexts:
  
 FiiO X5 Line Out > Audioquest Golden Gate mini-to-RCA cable > OPPO HA-1, balanced out > Toxic Cables Silver Poison > modded HD800
  
 vs.
  
 FiiO X5 Coaxial Out > KabelDirekt Pro Series Coaxial cable > OPPO HA-1, balanced out > Toxic Cables Silver Poison > LCD-2 rev. 1
  
  
 Actually, unlike some people, I've never found the Audeze headphones to be too heavy or uncomfortable - they're just fine, but switching between the LCD-2 and HD800, it's impossible not to notice how the HD800 just disappear on your head - a lot like the AKG K550 did for me.

 But the sound differences are far more critical for me.

 Speaking of which - and getting to recent posts, above - there are some albums in my library - just a few - where I much prefer the modded HD800 to the LCD-2. And here's the kicker - they tend to be among those that also sound the best on the LCD-2.  It's the recordings that do not require the LCD-2's (or PM-1's) forgiving nature.

 I was listening to Brad Mehldau's _Highway Rider_ (jazz) with the LCD-2, totally enjoying it, telling myself, "Oh yeah, this is why I love my LCD-2," when I decided to switch to the modded HD800 for confirmation of that assessment. Oops! No contest! The HD800 absolutely takes the lid off that album!

 But another jazz album I love is Gerald Albright's _Pushing the Envelope,_ which at first listen with the LCD-2, is every bit as well-recorded  as the Brad Mehldau album (no distortion in the treble or elsewhere). But switching to the more revealing (modded) HD800, everything is too forward and seems to have an etch - like an over-sharpened photograph (remember, I'm using the HA-1):






 But which is the better recording? The one that can tolerate scrutiny under the HD800 microscope or the one that sounds best under a more typical, under-resolving headphone like the LCD-2? And is it possible that the HD800's speed and short decays are "sharpening" things excessively? Or is it something else in my chain?
  
_Do so many HD800 users end up with tube amps because there's a problem with the HD800 or is it a problem with the majority of their recordings?_

*Moral of the story: No one will ever find a single rig that makes the most out of every recording in their library - no matter their personal tastes.*

 And thus, having only one headphone is possible only for those willing to make concessions as they play through their library.  I've concluded that the easiest way to avoid dissatisfaction for those who want to use only one headphone is to "soften" some portion of the chain (the PM-1 can play almost anything), but softening the HD800 is, in my opinion, a huge waste of money - like putting a 600 HP motor in a car with mediocre suspension and brakes for slalom runs.  
  
 I'd much rather limit the (modded) HD800 to a small playlist of recordings that are deserving, where it can outshine every other headphone in my inventory, than "smoothing" it with inexpensive tube or hybrid amps, or retaining its spectacular resolution while removing the edginess with an $1800 to $3500+ tube amp - which, in truth, are probably still best served by a restricted playlist.

 In the end, and again, I'm saying this for my tastes, the relatively short playlist demanded by the modded HD800 (on the chain I'm using)  is still an expensive proposition, even with an "affordable" solid state DAC and amp, not just because the HD800 itself is expensive, but because, in the absence of gear that softens it, the HD800 can only outperform the less expensive competition with less than 5% of my library - where, admittedly, it completely steals the day - so much so, that I don't want to part company with it.
  
 Mike


----------



## Sorrodje

Sorry but  tube = softening is a misconception.
  
 And another misconception is to consider thant searching the good amp or dac is trying to soften the HD800.  Many people here built their "(close to) end game HD800 setup with detailed and revealing dacs or amps because that's their preference.
  
 The global misconception is precisely the idea that the HD800 needs absolutely to be "soften".  I thought so a few month ago but I was wrong.


----------



## Canadian411

For me, my cheap Burson HA160DS helped HD800 to produce smooth trebles and gain the bass synergy. 
And I don't think HD800 is a cheap version or poor man's version of the LCD3 but more comfortable version of Audezes.


----------



## Justin_Time

potkettleblack said:


> Alright lads!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


It is often helpful to take a more holistic perspective: we are not listening to just the headphone but to the entire chain. So while the HD800, it is also reproducing the "sound" of the entire chain while also additing its own voice, of course.

The HD800 tend t soud a little bright. I like to think of it as being very revealing of whatever signlas upstream. The main reason for this persepective is that every time I hooked the HD800 up to higest quality gears, the brightness end away!

What you heard with Diane Krall's voice was clearly a problem with other gears--it is a stridency problem above 1KHz.--as I heard nothing with beautiful singing in my system last night.

I'll do some experiments and get back with you on this.


----------



## nigeljames

The HD800 is what it is with it's own strengths and weaknesses just like any other phone.
  
 If anyone feels that they need to change it's basic character then they have bought the wrong phone for their tastes and system.
  
 I withheld even thinking about buying the HD800 due to my musical tastes, having a neutral SS amp and neutral DAC. When I bought it I fully expected to return it for a refund but I loved it from day 1.
  
 All the issues people were having like brightness, lack of bass or body, lifeless and analytical were just non-existent.
  
 I guess I just got lucky


----------



## Sorrodje

HD800:
  
 First you buy it
 Then you love it
 Then you hate it and try to soften it
 Then you understand that's the wrong path and understand that all it needs is better upstream material
 Then your wallet die.
  
 That's the sad story of HD800 owner.


----------



## nigeljames

sorrodje said:


> HD800:
> 
> First you buy it
> Then you love it
> ...


 
  
 Luckily for me steps 3-5 do not apply


----------



## Somphon

justin_time said:


> potkettleblack said:
> 
> 
> > Alright lads!
> ...




What highest quality gear are you referring to?


----------



## MickeyVee

True that.  I'm on step 4 avoiding step 5 (McIntosh MHA100).  Is there an HD800 recovery/support group?
 Quote:


sorrodje said:


> HD800:
> 
> 1. First you buy it
> 2. Then you love it
> ...


----------



## Sorrodje

nigeljames said:


> Luckily for me steps 3-5 do not apply


 
  
 UK is an old and wise nation indeed.


----------



## Sorrodje

@MickeyVee: Anonymous HD800holics ?


----------



## dogears

Anyone here who has tried the HD800 with the Geek Out 1000? Feedback please? TIA!
 I'm currently liking the HD800 with (just) the Dared MP5


----------



## potkettleblack

Thank you for the response.
  
 Anything beyond just the headphones and music files I'm lost!
  
 Amps, DAC's etc, I really have very little experience with, but it's something I'd love to know more about.
  
 Like I said - for the most part I didn't really hear much harshness at all, but a few tracks really took me by surprise and couldn't be overlooked for the price I'm considering spending.


----------



## 62ohm

sorrodje said:


> HD800:
> 
> First you buy it
> Then you love it
> ...


 
  
 Touche


----------



## zilch0md

Hi Sorrodje,
  
 Quote:


sorrodje said:


> Sorry but  tube = softening is a misconception.
> 
> And another misconception is to consider thant searching the good amp or dac is trying to soften the HD800.  Many people here built their "(close to) end game HD800 setup with detailed and revealing dacs or amps because that's their preference.
> 
> The global misconception is precisely the idea that the HD800 needs absolutely to be "soften".  I thought so a few month ago but I was wrong.


 
  
 I think the "misconception" only applies to expensive tube gear - it's not a misconception with "affordable" tube gear.
  
 Let me add (as I've posted elsewhere), that the very best headphone rig I've personally ever heard (for my tastes) was jazzerdave's * Peachtree iDac > Cavalli Liquid Glass > HD800, with balanced copper cables of some kind*.  
  
 Compared to jazzerdave's very expensive tube amp and whatever choice of tubes he had rolled, the Schiit Vali hybrid and Schiit Valhalla 2 most definitely "soften" the treble - that was my experience, at least. 
  
 That's why I made a distinction between "inexpensive tube or hybrid amps" vs. "$1800 to $3500+ tube amps" in my previous statement, as *bolded*, here:
  


> Originally Posted by *zilch0md* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'd much rather limit the (modded) HD800 to a small playlist of recordings that are deserving, where it can outshine every other headphone in my inventory, *than "smoothing" it with inexpensive tube or hybrid amps, or retaining its spectacular resolution while removing the edginess with an $1800 to $3500+ tube amp* - which, in truth, are probably still best served by a restricted playlist.


 
  


sorrodje said:


> HD800:
> 
> First you buy it
> Then you love it
> ...


 
  
 I absolutely agree and your step 5 supports my contention that it isn't until you get to something like an $1800 tube amp (with the DNA Sonnet 2) that you'll no longer be compromising the HD800.
  
 Lesser tube gear kills the HD800's resolution.  (But resolution isn't everything we look for in good sound, to be sure.)
  
 Mike


----------



## Sorrodje

> Originally Posted by *zilch0md* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> *the Schiit Vali hybrid* and Schiit Valhalla 2 *most definitely "soften" the treble* - that was my experience, at least.


 
  
 I had the Vali and didn't share the same experience.
  
 BTW, sorry for misreading a part of your post


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

I don't understand everyone's obsession with perfectly neutral gear. I understand striving for gear that's almost neutral, close but maybe an exaggerated soundstage, or slightly warmer/brighter than neutral... but who gives a damn how it measures. The HD800 isn't perfectly neutral, face it... it is slightly bright. It's not perfect but it's not supposed to be. 

So why then, is using an amp that adds some body, making it more neutral by taking away some of the bright tilt so bad? Using a coloured amp doesn't always take away the detail and flat midrange of the HD800, especially with slightly coloured solid-state options.


----------



## preproman

potkettleblack said:


> Thank you for the response.
> 
> Anything beyond just the headphones and music files I'm lost!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Let's start off the right foot today...
  
 Maybe you can attend a local meet in your area to try different amps and DACs.  I really don't like meets, but if that's your only source they you have to make the best out of it.  With the HE-6 I took it around to different audio shops trying it with different amps, both low end up to very expensive.  That helped me a lot in finding a sound sig I like.  
  
 It's different with the HD800, a speaker amp is not needed so that makes it harder to find a suitable amp / DAC.    The best thing you can do is to find a loaner program or a buddy or a HiFi shop that has different amps / DACs.  Live with it for a few weeks / months.  
  
 No, they are not perfect - but what headphone is?    
  
 I guess meets are the only choice for some to get the exposure to different gears.


----------



## Amictus

audiokid said:


> Hi, as a newcomer to the HD800 club, I have started thinking about amps. I currently drive mine through a Chord Hugo. Is there any benefit to adding a separate amp, such as the Lehmann Black Cube Linear, as apparently this is considered a demo amp by Sennheiser?
> 
> Or, just stick with the Hugo? It seems to drive them ok, but have never heard the HD800 with anything else.


 
 I am very happy with the Lehmann Linear SE. I auditioned it alongside my Lovely Cube Lehmann clone and a new Linear. The SE beat them both comfortably (although the Lovely Cube came second on the day!). I use Schiit Gungnir > Linear SE > HD800 which works fine.


----------



## preproman

toddthemetalgod said:


> *I don't understand everyone's obsession with perfectly neutral gear.* I understand striving for gear that's almost neutral, close but maybe an exaggerated soundstage, or slightly warmer/brighter than neutral... but who gives a damn how it measures. The HD800 isn't perfectly neutral, face it... it is slightly bright. It's not perfect but it's not supposed to be.
> 
> *So why then, is using an amp that adds some body, making it more neutral by taking away some of the bright tilt so bad? *Using a coloured amp doesn't always take away the detail and flat midrange of the HD800, especially with slightly coloured solid-state options.


 
 First bold:
  
 I use to be like that.  I found out I wasn't really enjoying the music.  I was only out to critique it.  However, I still don't like anything overwhelming ie. bass, treble.  I'm not very fond of U shape sigs as well.  I really enjoy a smooth and mid centric sound gid these days.  Both ends still have to extend pretty good.  Maybe a slight roll off up top.  But no mid range suck out at all.  
  
 Second Bold:
  
 It's not.  In my case that's what i'm look for.  Your also correct in saying a *[size=small]"slightly"  [/size]*colored amp doesn't always take away details.  You have to be careful - you don't want to have to much color - or atleast I don't.


----------



## audiokid

Thanks, I must get a demo of the Lehmanns.

As for a comparison to Audeze, I just came from LCD X. The HD800 are streets ahead
For me, but each to their own. The Audeze are decent phones, especially for bright material but overall they are congested in sound and heavy and clostrophobic to wear. 

I love the Stax 507, now there's a good battle with the HD800!


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

preproman said:


> First bold:
> 
> I use to be like that.  I found out I wasn't really enjoying the music.  I was only out to critique it.  However, I still don't like anything overwhelming ie. bass, treble.  I'm not very fond of U shape sigs as well.  I really enjoy a smooth and mid centric sound gid these days.  Both ends still have to extend pretty good.  Maybe a slight roll off up top.  But no mid range suck out at all.
> 
> ...


I like the exact same sort of sound signature, mid-centric sound for high-end headphones with good extension on both ends. With less detailed headphones I like a bit of a U-shaped response, that way it doesn't sound boring and bland.


----------



## Hopup

Anyone tried Yamamoto HA-02 with hd800? I can't find any reviews on it. I would be able to get it very cheap price.


----------



## LugBug1

I'm also in the camp that isn't after pure neutrality (is there such a thing?). We all have our own tastes, and a slight bass emphasis or treble roll off can make a lot of music sound much more pleasing and ear friendly. And that goes the other way too as some recordings need a little more bite in the treble and less bloom in the bottom etc. But what the HD800 offers imo is a blank canvas to add whatever color you like. 
  
 Once you have the headphones and decent dac/source sorted, its all about the fine tuning - and in my experience the amp is the major contributor to finding the right sound for you. It's not that I don't think the dac makes much difference, it does but the added clarity or dynamic/speed etc doesn't mean anything if you don't like the sound of the amplifier. I've heard quite a few amps and dacs over the years now and most dacs have a similar sound, it's the fine details and clarity that is improved with upgrading not the light/shade. At least not in the same level that amps display. 
  
 Anyways, I forgot what my original point was... Ah yes!... nope its gone...  
  
 Got it. My favoured sound for the Senn's is having a little added warmth, but never enough that it sacrifices anything else. And if I may be so bold as to speak on behalf of us all - This is what we all want! I mean who wants a cold neutrality? Sadists! Thats who!


----------



## amham

lugbug1 said:


> I'm also in the camp that isn't after pure neutrality (is there such a thing?). We all have our own tastes, and a slight bass emphasis or treble roll off can make a lot of music sound much more pleasing and ear friendly. And that goes the other way too as some recordings need a little more bite in the treble and less bloom in the bottom etc. But what the HD800 offers imo is a blank canvas to add whatever color you like.
> 
> Once you have the headphones and decent dac/source sorted, its all about the fine tuning - and in my experience the amp is the major contributor to finding the right sound for you. It's not that I don't think the dac makes much difference, it does but the added clarity or dynamic/speed etc doesn't mean anything if you don't like the sound of the amplifier. I've heard quite a few amps and dacs over the years now and most dacs have a similar sound, it's the fine details and clarity that is improved with upgrading not the light/shade. At least not in the same level that amps display.
> 
> ...


 
 Very sage advice...
  
 Rather than read through almost 1000 posts, your suggestion of a warm, rich amp is appealing with my HD-800;s (although I am particularly susceptible to strident, edgy phones, I do not find the 800's as such).  I use a Benchmark DAC2 HGC with a Woo WA-22 and was thinking of a warmer amp (tube, please) with a nice tight bottom end (contradiction?).  Any suggestions?


----------



## magiccabbage

amham said:


> Very sage advice...
> 
> Rather than read through almost 1000 posts, your suggestion of a warm, rich amp is appealing with my HD-800;s (although I am particularly susceptible to strident, edgy phones, I do not find the 800's as such).  I use a Benchmark DAC2 HGC with a Woo WA-22 and was thinking of a warmer amp (tube, please) with a nice tight bottom end (contradiction?).  Any suggestions?


 
 Hopefully when my DNA Stratus arrives it will give me just that. Man I can't wait for my Stratus!


----------



## hekeli

One has to wonder why no one comes up with a DAC with integrated qu ality parametric EQ and maybe other DSP functions, multiple saveable profiles for different headphones and moods. Maybe that would put an end to some of the "gear seeking".. not having a PC or blah wouldn't be an excuse then..
  
 edit: Might even use DSpeaker anti-mode 2.0 for it... but hey a "warm amp" surely beats that..


----------



## frankrondaniel

magiccabbage said:


> Hopefully when my DNA Stratus arrives it will give me just that. Man I can't wait for my Stratus!


 

 I hope you'll post your impressions when you get your Stratus!  It's one that I've been considering.


----------



## LugBug1

amham said:


> Very sage advice...
> 
> Rather than read through almost 1000 posts, your suggestion of a warm, rich amp is appealing with my HD-800;s (although I am particularly susceptible to strident, edgy phones, I do not find the 800's as such).  I use a Benchmark DAC2 HGC with a Woo WA-22 and was thinking of a warmer amp (tube, please) with a nice tight bottom end (contradiction?).  Any suggestions?


 
 Thank you.
  
  I'm not really in the loop with current tube amps and have limited experience with them, there are plenty on here who can advise you better. I can only say that although tube amps get a rep for adding colour - The colour isn't always the same! Again fine tuning will be involved with the actual tubes because they can make quite a stark difference in any OTL design ime. 
  
 But If I wasn't into my vintage amps I would be looking at using tubes with the HD800. Simply because of the impedance factor.


----------



## magiccabbage

frankrondaniel said:


> I hope you'll post your impressions when you get your Stratus!  It's one that I've been considering.


 
 Yea I'm gonna do a big write up. when I get it


----------



## frankrondaniel

magiccabbage said:


> Yea I'm gonna do a big write up. when I get it


 
  
 I look forward to it!


----------



## zilch0md

hekeli said:


> One has to wonder why no one comes up with a DAC with integrated qu ality parametric EQ and maybe other DSP functions, multiple saveable profiles for different headphones and moods. Maybe that would put an end to some of the "gear seeking".. not having a PC or blah wouldn't be an excuse then..
> 
> edit: Might even use DSpeaker anti-mode 2.0 for it... but hey a "warm amp" surely beats that..


 
  
 I have _never_ found a software/firmware EQ that can play a pure sine wave tone without *distorting* it.

*Try downloading and playing one of the 30-second WAV files available at this site:*

http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/tone/download/


 Here are direct links to the 100Hz WAV and MP3 files - _*try enabling and disabling your EQ at nearby frequencies as the pure tone plays...*  _

http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/tone/files/100Hz_44100Hz_16bit_30sec.wav

http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/tone/files/100Hz_44100Hz_16bit_30sec.mp3


 I recently read that _"Equalizer APO"_ does not introduce distortion, but I have not yet downloaded it and tried the above test.
  
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/
  
 Mike


----------



## Justin_Time

potkettleblack said:


> Alright lads!
> 
> the chance to have two, two hour listening sessions on the new (20,000plus serial number) HD 800 this week.
> 
> ...




As promised, I listened to the HD800 with a whole bunch of amps. To keep the number of permutations and combinations to a minimum, I used only one good source, the PS Audio PerfectWave Transport and DAC, for comparing the sound of various ampos with the HD800 (I found the Oppo 105 SABRE DAC a tad too bright in all cases. By comparison, the old Burr-Brown DAC with the RWA Bellina sounded great with the HD800)

As I expected the HD800 sounded bright with some of the amps but not with most of them, which led me to treat the HD800 as a revealing headphone capable of reproducing bright sounds when such signals are produced upstream.

I heard slightly bright to piercing sound from the following amps:

Schiit Mjolnir
Burson Audio HA-160D
Burson Soloist
Apex Peak/Volcano (just slightly bright)
Oppo HA-1

I did not hear any problem witht the treble or excessive brightness with the following amps:

Vioelectric V181
Bryston BHA-1 (a little dull in the midrange)
RWA Corvina
MAD Ear+ HD (missing some bass and treble)
Fosgate Signature (nice added bass if you need it)
EC Super 7
Bakoon HA-21 (warmest sound)
HeadAmp GS-X Mk2 (silky smooth)
Cavalli Liquid Fire (very accurate)
Woo WA5 (gonzo bass)
EAR PH-4 (tube heaven)

With so many successful amps, I have no choice but to conclude that there is no "huge flaw" with the HD800. It is simply sometimes too revealing of the amp's or DAC's sound for its own good.

I can easily make the HD800 more forgiving of the DACs and Amps by simply putting another piece of speaker grill cloth over the drivers, but that diminishes the clarity of sound as well. I rather preserve the wonderfully open sound of the HD800. It is not that hard to select the right amp for it.


----------



## zilch0md

^ A valuable post - thanks, Justin_Time!
  
 Where did you find all of these amps (in one place) to audition each of them?  
  
 (I live near Dallas.)
  
 Thanks!
  
 Mike


----------



## Justin_Time

zilch0md said:


> ^ A valuable post - thanks, Justin_Time!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


I live in Dallas for 25 years. I still have a house there. Now I spend most of my time in Houston for work.

These amps (and headphones) are piled up in my bachelor's pad in the Museum District near Rice University.

It is almost time to unload most of them. 

I had a long thread about matching amps, able and headphone about a month ago if your are interested.

PS: A man with one amp knows exactly what the HD800 sounds like, a man with many amps...is never sure.
PPS: BTW where can I find your original post on modifying the HD800? I did the Analux mod. I removed most of the stridency


----------



## zilch0md

Yes, that's a great thread:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/729976/matching-headphones-cables-amplifiers-harder-than-it-should-be-very-long-post
  
 Houston.  So close, yet so far.


----------



## screwdriver

lugbug1 said:


> I'm also in the camp that isn't after pure neutrality (is there such a thing?). We all have our own tastes, and a slight bass emphasis or treble roll off can make a lot of music sound much more pleasing and ear friendly. And that goes the other way too as some recordings need a little more bite in the treble and less bloom in the bottom etc. But what the HD800 offers imo is a blank canvas to add whatever color you like.
> 
> Once you have the headphones and decent dac/source sorted, its all about the fine tuning - and in my experience the amp is the major contributor to finding the right sound for you. It's not that I don't think the dac makes much difference, it does but the added clarity or dynamic/speed etc doesn't mean anything if you don't like the sound of the amplifier. I've heard quite a few amps and dacs over the years now and most dacs have a similar sound, it's the fine details and clarity that is improved with upgrading not the light/shade. At least not in the same level that amps display.
> 
> ...


 
 this is what i was trying to achieve with the sennheiser hd800 . i believe im now satisfied with my set up and i can rest for now.
 oppo 103 flac/hi res files --> nad m51 --> decware csp3 ---> alo studio six ---> norne draug2 ---> sennheiser hd800


----------



## LugBug1

screwdriver said:


> this is what i was trying to achieve with the sennheiser hd800 . i believe im now satisfied with my set up and i can rest for now.
> oppo 103 flac/hi res files --> nad m51 --> decware csp3 ---> alo studio six ---> norne draug2 ---> sennheiser hd800


 
 I'm well read on the Nad as I'm a big fan of the company and it is my dream dac...  But your set-up is quite original and for that reason I believe you that it is good! I find it hard to be convinced of the use of separate pre-amps in hp set ups but at this level it is understandable if it adds a certain 'something'.


----------



## koiloco

lugbug1 said:


> I'm well read on the Nad as I'm a big fan of the company and it is my dream dac...  But your set-up is quite original and for that reason I believe you that it is good! I find it* hard to be convinced of the use of separate pre-amps in hp set ups* but at this level it is understandable if it adds a certain 'something'.


 
  
 I used to think so too until I put my parasound preamp in the chain 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Let's just say I am not going to take it out ever...


----------



## Taowolf51

zilch0md said:


> I have _never_ found a software/firmware EQ that can play a pure sine wave tone without *distorting* it.
> 
> *Try downloading and playing one of the 30-second WAV files available at this site:*
> 
> ...



 


I've been using Equalizer APO for awhile, and I haven't noticed any introduced distortion or related issues (and I definitely hear it in a lot of other software EQ's). I definitely recommend you try it when you have the time, though it does have a slightly steep learning curve.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

taowolf51 said:


> zilch0md said:
> 
> 
> > I have _never_ found a software/firmware EQ that can play a pure sine wave tone without *distorting* it.
> ...


Just because the distortion is there doesn't mean it's audible.


----------



## Taowolf51

toddthemetalgod said:


> Just because the distortion is there doesn't mean it's audible.



 


I'm well aware of that, but if the distortion isn't audible, who cares?


----------



## lin0003

taowolf51 said:


> toddthemetalgod said:
> 
> 
> > Just because the distortion is there doesn't mean it's audible.
> ...


 
 I think that is his point? 
  
 Anyway, has anyone heard the HD800 with a B22 and compared it to something like the HDVA600 or GSX?


----------



## Justin_Time

zilch0md said:


> Yes, that's a great thread:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/729976/matching-headphones-cables-amplifiers-harder-than-it-should-be-very-long-post
> 
> Houston.  So close, yet so far.


 
 Sorry about that!
  
 One question:  could you point me toward your post on the HD800 mod you showed in the picture?
  
 J_T


----------



## kothganesh

dogears said:


> Anyone here who has tried the HD800 with the Geek Out 1000? Feedback please? TIA!
> I'm currently liking the HD800 with (just) the Dared MP5



FWIW, I use the 800 with the GO 720. It's a good combination especially with the 3D awesomifier. IMO, it's a fairly neutral DAC which lets the 800 display its strengths and very revealing of the source. The amp can be loud if you are not careful.


----------



## Taowolf51

lin0003 said:


> I think that is his point?



 

Possibly. It read like it could have gone either way.


----------



## Canadian411

justin_time said:


> ...
> 
> Vioelectric V181
> Bryston BHA-1 (a little dull in the midrange)
> ...


 
 This is exactly what I was looking for, amps side by side comparison in short description. Guess I will be buying Cavalli soon


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

taowolf51 said:


> lin0003 said:
> 
> 
> > I think that is his point?
> ...


Yeah that was my point .


----------



## Justin_Time

canadian411 said:


> This is exactly what I was looking for, amps side by side comparison in short description. Guess I will be buying Cavalli


 
 If you like the Cavalli, it may be helpful to read my update on tube rolling with this amp in the High-end section.  The Cavalli has very high resolution--and so is the HD800--so you can get exactly the sound you want with the right tubes.  This post may save you some money:  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/729976/matching-headphones-cables-amplifiers-harder-than-it-should-be-very-long-post/30#post_10889959
  
 As a pennant, you can also read the very long original post on matching amps and cables to various headphones.


----------



## BleaK

canadian411 said:


> This is exactly what I was looking for, amps side by side comparison in short description. Guess I will be buying Cavalli soon


 
  
 Might want to check out this review too:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/692923/review-questyle-cma800-current-mode-amplifier


----------



## zilch0md

screwdriver said:


> this is what i was trying to achieve with the sennheiser hd800 . i believe im now satisfied with my set up and i can rest for now.
> oppo 103 flac/hi res files --> nad m51 --> decware csp3 ---> alo studio six ---> norne draug2 ---> sennheiser hd800


 
  
_That's tubelicious!   _
  





  


taowolf51 said:


> zilch0md said:
> 
> 
> > I have _never_ found a software/firmware EQ that can play a pure sine wave tone without *distorting* it.
> ...


 
  
 I've become so disenchanted by EQs...  If you could try the quick test I've suggested, I'd trust your observation (that you hear no distortion when cutting in and out), and then I'd feel highly encouraged to install _Equalizer APO._  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


toddthemetalgod said:


> Just because the distortion is there doesn't mean it's audible.


 
  
 I understood your meaning when I first read this, and despite how stern I am about not wanting to hear distortion caused by an EQ when playing a pure sine wave tone, I actually have scratched my head more than a few times when actually listening to music with the "better" EQs - thinking to myself that I can't really hear any distortion that is as horrible as what I hear with a pure tone.  
  
 So...  I get what you're saying, but I have also observed that there is a proportional relationship between how bad the pure tone distortion is and how bad the distortion can be with that same EQ while playing music.  
  
 If a given EQ is "bad enough" at playing pure tones, I can hear its distortion when playing music.  This leads me to conclude that if I can hear _any_ distortion with a given EQ while playing a pure tone, that _same_ amount of distortion is happening while I'm playing music, even if it's "buried" among clean signals to the point that it's not_ readily _detectable.  
  
 Which begs the question:  Why would I want to do that?  Just knowing that it's less than perfectly _clean_, is enough to stop me from doing it.  Perhaps I should be more willing to embrace a compromise.
  


justin_time said:


> Sorry about that!
> 
> One question:  could you point me toward your post on the HD800 mod you showed in the picture?
> 
> J_T


 
  
 I've made two posts with that picture...
  
Here's the first post (with my very first impressions of the mod), from five days ago.
  
And here's the more recent post, from yesterday.
  
 Comparing the two, I'm chuckling at how I was at first so pleased with Gerald Albright's _Bobo's Groove _using the mod, but with a few days more experience, it seems I've moved past the initial thrill of how the mod reduces the HD800's "harshness" (or perhaps, its revelation of the harshness of upstream gear).  
  
 Now that I've had a few days with the mod, my discernment has adjusted, leaving me less satisfied with _Bobo's Groove, _in comparison to a "better" recording.  The HD800 encourages me to be picky.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Mike


----------



## rgs9200m

justin_time said:


> PS: A man with one amp knows exactly what the HD800 sounds like, a man with many amps...is never sure.


 
 What a Great comment. Maybe the comment of the year in my book.


----------



## rgs9200m

By the way, my HD800 (stock form, including cable) with my equipment chain  requires no EQ and the highs sound great.
 I spend a lot of time with live-music DVDs with it (live popular-music like Midnight Special and 60s-70s-80s music performances).
 System: Oppo 105D player w/Cardas Golden Cross balanced  ICs ==> Apex Pinnacle amp with PSvane 6NS7 tube.
 Amazingly good sound (and video, not even hi-def, just Darbee'd).
 I found a new respect for the HD800 with this config.
 [edit: maybe it's just me, but regular old DVD often has incredibly good sound, and always has to me. Just my impressions from many years of listening. I don't know why. Try it sometime and see if you agree.]


----------



## Maxvla

lin0003 said:


> I think that is his point?
> 
> Anyway, has anyone heard the HD800 with a B22 and compared it to something like the HDVA600 or GSX?



B22 with HD800 is not a great pair, but is just alright. It dulls a lot of the detail extraction HD800s are capable of. You keep the great soundstage properties, but everything is just a little too thick and feature-less. GS-X by comparison is very clear, allowing everything through, flaws and all.


----------



## lin0003

Was this the 4 channel?


----------



## preproman

lin0003 said:


> Was this the 4 channel?


 
  
 If you get any B22 I would recommend the 4 channel dual sigma 22.  It's still a pretty good amp.  Has lots of power, can drive any headphone out there (not that great with the HE-6).
  
 It's a pretty good match with the HD800 - depends on what type of sound sig you like.  It will warm it up and roll off at the high end a tad bit.  I liked it better with other headphones - but it's still a good amp in it's own right.
  
 4 amp boards..


----------



## lin0003

Thanks!


----------



## Frank I

The Viva Egoista is stellar with the HD800-first tube amp I don't nor will I roll tubes. If you get a chance to listen to this amp it is magnificent for all headphone but excellent with the HD800,


----------



## mikemercer

frank i said:


> The Viva Egoista is stellar with the HD800-first tube amp I don't nor will I roll tubes. If you get a chance to listen to this amp it is magnificent for all headphone but excellent with the HD800,


 
 I bet thats a KILLER combo Frank!!
  
 I've been basking in this HD800 system this weekend:

  
 Those new Double Helix Cables Complement4 dual XLR have also become my #1 choice for the HD800 and my LAu!!
  
 The sound is lush, dynamic, wide-open/airy - and there's more soul in the music than I've heard before through my 800s.
 I've always loved them technically, but not always with regard to connecting me to the emotive power of music.
  
 But, in this system - they're a real treasure!
 And those NuForce HA-200s in monoblock configuration do a FINE job w/ the 800s too.


----------



## White Lotus

So frustrating.. 
  
 Our house is being renovated, so I'm staying in a rental nearby.
  
 But, all of our tiling is being replaced, so since I've had my HD800, I haven't been able to get in/walk around/access all of my stuffs.
  
 Which means, I've had my HD800 for two weeks now, and still haven't been able to test it with my DAC/Tubes 
  
 Just the FiiO X5 and E18 combo.
  
 First world problems


----------



## lin0003

white lotus said:


> So frustrating..
> 
> Our house is being renovated, so I'm staying in a rental nearby.
> 
> ...


 
 Haha lol. 
  
 I've found it does ok with cheapish amp, but it improves so much.


----------



## SP Wild

rgs9200m said:


> By the way, my HD800 (stock form, including cable) with my equipment chain  requires no EQ and the highs sound great.
> I spend a lot of time with live-music DVDs with it (live popular-music like Midnight Special and 60s-70s-80s music performances).
> System: Oppo 105D player w/Cardas Golden Cross balanced  ICs ==> Apex Pinnacle amp with PSvane 6NS7 tube.
> Amazingly good sound (and video, not even hi-def, just Darbee'd).
> ...


 
  
 Probably because it was recorded with the Cinema X curve....which lines up with the HD800 bass response quite nicely.


----------



## YoengJyh

Hi Guys, Have anyone heard about EarMax Silver Edition OTL tube amp?


----------



## SP Wild

The imitation earmaxes were awesome.  The real ones would be even better.


----------



## mikemercer

white lotus said:


> So frustrating..
> 
> Our house is being renovated, so I'm staying in a rental nearby.
> 
> ...


 
 First world problems indeed!
 but that must be frustrating - 
  
 Have a friend nearby w/ a CEntrance HiFi-M8???
 EXCELLENT w/ the HD800 - for a portable IMO
  
 and I just discovered this by accident while testing my M8 for this mini-Meet in San Francisco tomorrow.
 But listening to the new Shabbaz Palaces record (if you know, or knew of Digable Planets - this is one of his other bands) _Lese Majesty _on that combo was AWESOME:

 Fluid, dynamic, wide-open soundstage with insane dimensionality and the M8 really warms up the 800
 which I liked VERY much.


----------



## kazsud

mikemercer said:


> I bet thats a KILLER combo Frank!!
> 
> I've been basking in this HD800 system this weekend:
> 
> ...




How much better are the mono blocks than the Hap-100 for the HD800s?


----------



## potkettleblack

Thank you for your feedback and research - really appreciate it.


----------



## dogears

mikemercer said:


> Have a friend nearby w/ a CEntrance HiFi-M8??? EXCELLENT w/ the HD800 - for a portable IMO


 
 What is the nearest competition for an office desktop? I'm looking at the M8 for my HD800. I'm currently using the BM DAC1 in the office. Is it an upgrade or a "sidegrade" with smaller footprint (which I don't mind just in case).
 TIA


----------



## Somphon

dogears said:


> What is the nearest competition for an office desktop? I'm looking at the M8 for my HD800. I'm currently using the BM DAC1 in the office. Is it an upgrade or a "sidegrade" with smaller footprint (which I don't mind just in case).
> TIA


 

  Try audition Chord Hugo.
 I love the sounds from Hugo+HD800, but quite picky recording quality.


----------



## dogears

Thanks Somphon but the Chord Hugo is way out of what my wallet wants to spend


----------



## Zoom25

dogears said:


> What is the nearest competition for an office desktop? I'm looking at the M8 for my HD800. I'm currently using the BM DAC1 in the office. Is it an upgrade or a "sidegrade" with smaller footprint (which I don't mind just in case).
> TIA


 
 http://dangerousmusic.com/products/source


----------



## gmahler2u

love the sound of hd800!!!


----------



## zerodeefex

I didn't like the m8, but I (surprisingly) do like the geek out 450/720 > pico power. 

The 720 is a little warmer.


----------



## ericfarrell85

screwdriver said:


> this is what i was trying to achieve with the sennheiser hd800 . i believe im now satisfied with my set up and i can rest for now.
> oppo 103 flac/hi res files --> nad m51 --> decware csp3 ---> alo studio six ---> norne draug2 ---> sennheiser hd800




Interesting that you threw the Decware Pre in the chain. I've struggled with the HD800 for a couple of years now, but recently swapped a Mullard ECC35 for a Sophia Electric 6sl7 in my BA and for added warmth decided to see how my CSP2+ would play as pre in the chain. Something is just awfully right about this setup now. 

It now looks like BPT 3.5+> Offramp 5 (i2s)> M7 > CSP2+ > ECBA. 

Waiting for my Lampi to be fixed, but not missing much with this setup in place


----------



## preproman

ericfarrell85 said:


> Interesting that you threw the Decware Pre in the chain. I've struggled with the HD800 for a couple of years now, but recently swapped a Mullard ECC35 for a Sophia Electric 6sl7 in my BA and for added warmth decided to see how my CSP2+ would play as pre in the chain. Something is just awfully right about this setup now.
> 
> It now looks like BPT 3.5+> Offramp 5 (i2s)> M7 > CSP2+ > ECBA.
> 
> Waiting for my Lampi to be fixed, but not missing much with this setup in place


 
  
 E,
  
 So why the CSP2+?      OR5 --> M7 --> ECBA is inferior?


----------



## ericfarrell85

D,
  
 Hard to say if it's the CSP2+ or the tube swap (a simultaneous change). The drastic difference leads me to believe that it cannot be a change resulting from the driver tube (then again I've always underestimated tube influence). It should also be noted that I've always liked the CSP2+ > HD800 combo, being the only amp (that I own) that even remotely makes the HD800 an intimate listen. 
  
 I've always wondered why more people don't play with preamps in their chain. The one other HD800 setup I loved was the Zana Deux > Beta 22 setup. Perhaps there is something to this pre addition? In the coming week I'll try the Zana > BA, BA > Zana, and hopefully then will be able to say with some certainty whether preamps play a notable role with the HD800. As it stands now, the HD800 gets out of the way nearly as well as the SR009. With the previous Mullard (no pre) in place the HD800 was both dull and strident, so a killer change to say it plain.


----------



## skeptic

ericfarrell85 said:


> I've always wondered why more people don't play with preamps in their chain...


 
  
 I think the general idea is that adding more gain stages adds more noise/coloration/distortion, and there is no need given the low power required by most headphones.  Cathode followers are an exception to this rule where you are really using the second stage to lower ouput impedance in liue of building around output transformers.  The best hp tube amps, imo, sound great with hd800 and pass the signal through a _single gain stage tube_.  95% of the circuit is devoted to providing the gain stage tube on each channel with the exact regulated voltage and constant current necessary to sound as good as possible.  Hello mainline and L-2, or for the budget minded, torpedo.
  
 When you talk about feeding a zd into a b22...why not just buy a good hybrid?


----------



## screwdriver

The csp2+ or csp3 as pre amp with the studio six is so much better than the studio six alone, it's like all s6 on steroids.


----------



## skeptic

I would find it a bit dispiriting if I felt I needed a ~$2k amp in front of my ~$4k amp to make the latter sound better.  I recall your s6 is now up for sale?


----------



## froger

ericfarrell85 said:


> D,
> 
> Hard to say if it's the CSP2+ or the tube swap (a simultaneous change). The drastic difference leads me to believe that it cannot be a change resulting from the driver tube (then again I've always underestimated tube influence). It should also be noted that I've always liked the CSP2+ > HD800 combo, being the only amp (that I own) that even remotely makes the HD800 an intimate listen.
> 
> I've always wondered why more people don't play with preamps in their chain. The one other HD800 setup I loved was the Zana Deux > Beta 22 setup. Perhaps there is something to this pre addition? In the coming week I'll try the Zana > BA, BA > Zana, and hopefully then will be able to say with some certainty whether preamps play a notable role with the HD800. As it stands now, the HD800 gets out of the way nearly as well as the SR009. With the previous Mullard (no pre) in place the HD800 was both dull and strident, so a killer change to say it plain.




I love having my AMR DP-777 as a pre-amp in my chain too. I thought I must be crazy swapping my DP-777 as the DAC with a China-made LKS DAC, but I chose my ears over my head in this case. And after modding the LKS DAC with femto clock, my chain has never sounded this realistic and musical. All these with HD800 of course


----------



## ericfarrell85

skeptic said:


> I think the general idea is that adding more gain stages adds more noise/coloration/distortion, and there is no need given the low power required by most headphones.  Cathode followers are an exception to this rule where you are really using the second stage to lower ouput impedance in liue of building around output transformers.  The best hp tube amps, imo, sound great with hd800 and pass the signal through a _single gain stage tube_.  95% of the circuit is devoted to providing the gain stage tube on each channel with the exact regulated voltage and constant current necessary to sound as good as possible.  Hello mainline and L-2, or for the budget minded, torpedo.
> 
> When you talk about feeding a zd into a b22...why not just buy a good hybrid?




While generally I agree with you that stacking a preamp on a headphone amp is a waste (hell, headphones can generally be driven by a single opamp). However, the HD800 has been, in my experience, a difficult cat to skin and has required (for me -- see subjective) lots of tuning. Be it adding various harmonic distortion, frequency emphasis: this added coloration can be and has been pleasant. I get the reverse argument, with headphones power demands are substantially lower, sensitivity is much higher and headphones are for the most part full-range drivers, so it's simpler than speaker requirements (ideal schemes requiring one amp per channel, crossover, multi-amp schemes). Still, I've heard on more than one occasion a preamp enlivening an otherwise dull and flat presentation. With the HD800's separates seem to give a little something special. At the very least it's worth investigating I think.


----------



## screwdriver

skeptic said:


> I would find it a bit dispiriting if I felt I needed a ~$2k amp in front of my ~$4k amp to make the latter sound better.  I recall your s6 is now up for sale?


 
 i happen to have the csp decware from my speaker set up and i tried it as a pre amp with the alo and it just sounds incredible .
 im trying to sell my gear - the alo s6 , then the hd800 later on so i can go hifiman he-6  to be powered by a speaker set up . i wanna simplify my systm . i have the speaker set up and headphone set up - a lot of money tied up - i just wanna have one set up - the speaker set up that can get the he-6 to great levels.


----------



## rgs9200m

Just wanted to report that the Sennheiser balanced cable I just got for the HD800 improves things. The sound is bigger, wider, more open, and a touch more mellow.
  
 edit: added the word "a"; and this sounds more awkwardly phrased the more I read it...


----------



## koiloco

rgs9200m said:


> Just wanted to report that the Sennheiser balanced cable I just got for the HD800 improves things. The sound is bigger, wider, more open, and touch more mellow.


 
 Glad to hear the cable did all that for you.  Enjoy...


----------



## preproman

koiloco said:


> Glad to hear the cable did all that for you.  Enjoy...


 
  
 Ha ha ha


----------



## zilch0md

I just ordered a Metrum Acoustics Octave MkII. 

If the following chain doesn't satisfy my quest for a less fatiguing HD800, I'll call it quits and sell it (maybe). 

FiiO X5 coaxial out > Octave > OPPO HA-1 balanced out > unmodified HD800

Mike


----------



## Pepper

bleak said:


> Didn't you have the ODAC/O2 combo? Why are you then using the DAC1 when they measure the same?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've amped my HD800s with an Objective2. Thought that's all there was to sound.
  
 Then I amped it with a vintage amp (which I still think is great), and the sound was a lot more pleasant to listen to. I listened for maybe at least 10 hours that day. But here, there was definitely detail loss, and there was obvious "distortion" with the signal.
  
 Then I amped my HD800s with a Bryston BHA-1, and it just sounded "Hi-Fi" right away. Each note was so controlled and articulate, and there was this slight softness to it, like the softness you get when a nice, felted hammer in a piano strikes the string. The O2 does NOT go well with the HD800s at all; it sounds extremely boring, dull, and there is absolutely no depth to the sound. The soundstage is as wide as a piece of paper, and imaging virtually non-existent. Is that *really* how it was originally recorded? The O2 also sounded a little gritty and grainy, whereas the BHA-1 is smooth as silk. I wonder what metric accounts for that.
  
 Maybe all of these are "distortion" and I like the sound of distortion. Or, maybe the metrics used to measure the O2 are not the correct criteria when it comes to what makes a good amp. I want to believe that an amp is just increasing the amplitude of the signal. But if that's what the O2 does, why does it obviously not sound right. I guarantee you the recording engineers would say that the sound coming out of my BHA-1 is truer to the sound they intended than what results from the O2.


----------



## BleaK

pepper said:


> Maybe all of these are "distortion" and I like the sound of distortion. Or, maybe the metrics used to measure the O2 are not the correct criteria when it comes to what makes a good amp. I want to believe that an amp is just increasing the amplitude of the signal. But if that's what the O2 does, why does it obviously not sound right. I guarantee you the recording engineers would say that the sound coming out of my BHA-1 is truer to the sound they intended than what results from the O2.


 
  
 That's what most of us in this hobby has come to realize. There are some thing in audio which we cannot measure yet. Take the Violectric amps for example. They are built out of measurements as well like the Objective2. They measure both "beyond what our ear can hear". So in _theory_ they should sound alike. But those who have heard them both side by side can say that this is *not* the case. This is were the hardcore objectionist have a problem to explain where the differences in sound can come from. Well, some might say they don't hear the difference. But then they should be happy with their Objective2 anyways.


----------



## zhenya

bleak said:


> That's what most of us in this hobby has come to realize. There are some thing in audio which we cannot measure yet. Take the Violectric amps for example. They are built out of measurements as well like the Objective2. They measure both "beyond what our ear can hear". So in _theory_ they should sound alike. But those who have heard them both side by side can say that this is *not* the case. This is were the hardcore objectionist have a problem to explain where the differences in sound can come from. Well, some might say they don't hear the difference. But then they should be happy with their Objective2 anyways.




As a pretty adamant objectivist in the past, I'm slowly coming around myself on this issue, not the least because of how amazing the HD800's sound and the differences they can highlight. One thing I have found for certain is that one cannot dive right into making comparisons or everything will in fact sound largely the same (barring massive changes which is not what we are usually after at this level). For me at least, I really do require a warmup period where I just listen and settle in. Then, again largely barring massive changes, I have to listen to each change for some time before coming to a conclusion. Instant swapping is surprisingly ineffective for me again unless the changes are large. Reflecting on this recently I thought of the following comparison that I haven't heard put forth before. Maybe you guys can tell me what you think. 

My neighbor is a fine botanical artist who does world-class highly detailed paintings of flowers and plants. We have several of her original pieces and a couple of prints as well as cards, etc. To compare the really good prints with the original with a quick look one would not be able to easily tell the difference. However if one were to spend some time acquainting themselves with the works, the differences would begin to reveal themselves. These works are so detailed that at her openings she provides magnifying glasses to visitors. Comparing them side by side with a glass the differences begin to become apparent. At the same token, stepping back and taking in the entire work as a whole, you begin to see that the original has a greater dynamic range and subtle shifts in the lighting can have a great effect on the whole. Still, given a quick a/b where one was only able to view a single image at a time (as we are necessarily limited with audio) I imagine most people not familiar with the works would have a very hard time identifying the original. To me this speaks volumes about the efficacy of double blind tests in audio. One must really spend a lot of time with equipment getting to know it, getting to feel what it sounds like before making a judgement, yet comparison tests rarely allow for this. This conundrum is further exacerbated by the fact that there is so much nonsense pawned for a lot of money in this business which really only serves to muddy the waters further, however I'm increasingly convinced of the value of just listening and going with your feelings when making a decision.


----------



## PleasantSounds

bleak said:


> [..]  This is were the hardcore objectionist have a problem to explain where the differences in sound can come from. Well, some might say they don't hear the difference. But then they should be happy with their Objective2 anyways.


 
  
 No they don't: they already know that everything outside frequency response and signal to noise is a placebo. And they have links to prove it. So the O2 is perfect because if you hear something different from another amp it's only your mind playing tricks on you.
  
 But seriously: all the measurements are done with certain load plugged to the output. That load may simulate how one headphone behaves, but not all of them. For planars it's relatively easy as their response is quite linear, but just look at the impedance to frequency graphs of a few dynamic headphones: they are all over the place. For the HD800 the impedance changes between 300 and 600 Ohm and how this variation is handled changes from amp to amp. It shouldn't take voodoo to comprehend that.


----------



## Sorrodje

zhenya said:


> As a pretty adamant objectivist in the past, I'm slowly coming around myself on this issue, not the least because of how amazing the HD800's sound and the differences they can highlight. One thing I have found for certain is that one cannot dive right into making comparisons or everything will in fact sound largely the same (barring massive changes which is not what we are usually after at this level). For me at least, I really do require a warmup period where I just listen and settle in. Then, again largely barring massive changes, I have to listen to each change for some time before coming to a conclusion. Instant swapping is surprisingly ineffective for me again unless the changes are large. Reflecting on this recently I thought of the following comparison that I haven't heard put forth before. Maybe you guys can tell me what you think.
> 
> My neighbor is a fine botanical artist who does world-class highly detailed paintings of flowers and plants. We have several of her original pieces and a couple of prints as well as cards, etc. To compare the really good prints with the original with a quick look one would not be able to easily tell the difference. However if one were to spend some time acquainting themselves with the works, the differences would begin to reveal themselves. These works are so detailed that at her openings she provides magnifying glasses to visitors. Comparing them side by side with a glass the differences begin to become apparent. At the same token, stepping back and taking in the entire work as a whole, you begin to see that the original has a greater dynamic range and subtle shifts in the lighting can have a great effect on the whole. Still, given a quick a/b where one was only able to view a single image at a time (as we are necessarily limited with audio) I imagine most people not familiar with the works would have a very hard time identifying the original. To me this speaks volumes about the efficacy of double blind tests in audio. One must really spend a lot of time with equipment getting to know it, getting to feel what it sounds like before making a judgement, yet comparison tests rarely allow for this. This conundrum is further exacerbated by the fact that there is so much nonsense pawned for a lot of money in this business which really only serves to muddy the waters further, however I'm increasingly convinced of the value of just listening and going with your feelings when making a decision.


 
  
 I'm in the same boat and have exactly the same feelings.
  
 I would just like to add one point. In the audio business ,It seems hard to find its own "right" path between people who only trust measures ( objectivists) and people who only trust prices ( more expensive equal better) . The most odd phenomenon is in audio , people come on forum to say how much they're happy with their new gear. everywhere else people come to talk about issues or problems. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Strange business.


----------



## rgs9200m

All amps sound different.


----------



## koiloco

sorrodje said:


> I'm in the same boat and have exactly the same feelings.
> 
> I would just like to add one point. In the audio business ,It seems hard to find its own "right" path between people who only trust measures ( objectivists) and people who only trust prices ( more expensive equal better) . The most odd phenomenon is in audio , people come on forum to say how much they're happy with their new gear. everywhere else people come to talk about issues or problems.
> 
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## blackwolf1006

I listened to Dr Chesky Binaural Album on the HD800 yesterday. it was a little strange. I actually felt the air hitting my air when he whispered in the mic. I just keep getting more impressed by this headphone every day.


----------



## Hal X

Hey guys, it's been 8 months since I got my pair of HD800s. I love these headphones, their sense of space and transparency. Currently I am using a O2/ODAC combo and  I'd like to upgrade to something more refined , soundstage is great with this combo but the sound is a bit boring. I don't find it harsh or bright, just a bit lifeless. I considered some options(max budget about 600 euro including shipping and import taxes, only solid state):
 1) Buy a new DAC, I found The Arcam irDAC quite interesting and read many good reviews about them; keep the O2 as amp;
  
  2)Buy a Questyle Q192, I heard it pairs very well with these headphones,and thus I would have a DAC/amp combo;
  
  3)Something else you think would be better at this price range.
  
 What do you think/suggest?


----------



## zhenya

hal x said:


> Hey guys, it's been 8 months since I got my pair of HD800s. I love these headphones, their sense of space and transparency. Currently I am using a O2/ODAC combo and  I'd like to upgrade to something more refined , soundstage is great with this combo but the sound is a bit boring. I don't find it harsh or bright, just a bit lifeless. I considered some options(max budget about 600 euro including shipping and import taxes, only solid state):
> 1) Buy a new DAC, I found The Arcam irDAC quite interesting and read many good reviews about them; keep the O2 as amp;
> 
> 2)Buy a Questyle Q192, I heard it pairs very well with these headphones,and thus I would have a DAC/amp combo;
> ...


 
  
 http://www.lake-people.de/produktdetails/product/HPA_V100.html


----------



## Hal X

zhenya said:


> http://www.lake-people.de/produktdetails/product/HPA_V100.html


 
 Thanks. I forgot to add that I'd like to mantain the best transparency and soundstage possible.
  
 So you think I should keep the ODAC?


----------



## zhenya

hal x said:


> Thanks. I forgot to add that I'd like to mantain the best transparency and soundstage possible.
> 
> So you think I should keep the ODAC?


 
 I don't know exactly. I would do some further research to see what others think of the Violectric stuff with the HD800's, but knowing their general principles and hearing your wants, I think it might be a good match.
  
 You can add a DAC to most of the Violectric amps for not very much extra. I doubt they are top tier, but they are probably well designed. You may also wish to keep the two separate, in that case I would personally do the amp before the DAC.


----------



## Hal X

zhenya said:


> I don't know exactly. I would do some further research to see what others think of the Violectric stuff with the HD800's, but knowing their general principles and hearing your wants, I think it might be a good match.
> 
> You can add a DAC to most of the Violectric amps for not very much extra. I doubt they are top tier, but they are probably well designed. You may also wish to keep the two separate, in that case I would personally do the amp before the DAC.


 
 Again, thanks. Have you heard about the Questyle Q192? If you did, what do you think?


----------



## zhenya

hal x said:


> Again, thanks. Have you heard about the Questyle Q192? If you did, what do you think?


 
 Sorry, I have not.
  
 It is my opinion that the HD800 is good enough that it will highlight the flaws in almost any gear, so my personal suggestion would be to buy the best amp you can for it, and then in the future buy the best DAC. In the long run this will provide a better system for less money than buying a series of mid-level equipment especially if that equipment is integrated. Remember that amplifiers tend to remain relevant for a lot longer than DAC's so it's nice to be able to upgrade them independently.


----------



## Sorrodje

hal x said:


> Thanks. I forgot to add that I'd like to mantain the best transparency and soundstage possible.
> 
> So you think I should keep the ODAC?


 
  
 Personaly ? i'd prefer to keep the O2 and sell the Odac. Try a little Schiit Modi instead of Odac for example. I didn't hear it myself but I heard and read positive opinions from reliable people here or there.  Then, you'll be able to make your own opinion for a reasonable amount of money.


  Currently, I'm seriously trying a Beresford Bushmaster mkII. 210$ for U.S people I think . IMO it trounces the ODac and compete way above its price. Not tried with the O2 yet but I will. The headphone output seems decent but not neutral IMO.


----------



## Hal X

sorrodje said:


> Personaly ? i'd prefer to keep the O2 and sell the Odac. Try a little Schiit Modi instead of Odac for example. I didn't hear it myself but I heard and read positive opinions from reliable people here or there.  Then, you'll be able to make your own opinion for a reasonable amount of money.
> 
> 
> Currently, I'm seriously trying a Beresford Bushmaster mkII. 210$ for U.S people I think . IMO it trounces the ODac and compete way abov its price. Not tried with the O2 yet but I will. The headphone output seems decent but not neutral IMO.


 
 The Caiman MkII caught my interest... any comparison with the irDAC (wich was praised by many)?


----------



## BournePerfect

rgs9200m said:


> All amps sound different.


 
  
 It must be distortion. Only the O2 is true.
  
 Welcome to Head-fi, sorry about your common senses.


----------



## Sorrodje

hal x said:


> The Caiman MkII caught my interest... any comparison with the irDAC (wich was praised by many)?


 
  
 I'll purchase the Caiman mkII in the next days  . I'm so impressed by the Bushmaster that I can't imagine the Caiman could be less good. I hope the Caiman to offer a bit more body. The BM sounds very detailed with a stupendous 3D soundstage and stays surprisingly musical for such a detailed DAC. cons are a bit thin sound and maybe it's too unforgiving  for average recordings..  More news to come with the Caiman mkII


----------



## pdrm360

bourneperfect said:


> It must be distortion. Only the O2 is true.
> 
> Welcome to Head-fi, sorry about your common senses.


 
  
 Why we think the O2 is true?  because NwAvGuy said?


----------



## White Lotus

I have found my audio "End-game".
  
 Mini i PRO DSD >>> La Figaro 339 >>> HD800.


----------



## punit

white lotus said:


> I have found my audio "End-game".


 

  Famous last words uttered by countless people on Head-Fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Good Luck, especially now that you have the HD 800.


----------



## Pepper

hal x said:


> Hey guys, it's been 8 months since I got my pair of HD800s. I love these headphones, their sense of space and transparency. Currently I am using a O2/ODAC combo and  I'd like to upgrade to something more refined , soundstage is great with this combo but the sound is a bit boring. I don't find it harsh or bright, just a bit lifeless. I considered some options(max budget about 600 euro including shipping and import taxes, only solid state):
> 1) Buy a new DAC, I found The Arcam irDAC quite interesting and read many good reviews about them; keep the O2 as amp;
> 
> 2)Buy a Questyle Q192, I heard it pairs very well with these headphones,and thus I would have a DAC/amp combo;
> ...


 
 I haven't tried this yet, but everyone raves about the Vioelectric 100 with the HD800s, because that's the one the lead engineer from Sennheiser used to voice the HD800s. It's about that price. 

 And, you really need to try the HD800s on something else from the O2. The HD800s just don't sound good out of them. I had that setup for a long time, and hearing the HD800s even out of a powerful vintage amp was instantly 2x better.


----------



## BournePerfect

pdrm360 said:


> Why we think the O2 is true?  because NwAvGuy said?


 
  
 Um, joke.


----------



## 62ohm

white lotus said:


> I have found my audio "End-game".
> 
> Mini i PRO DSD >>> La Figaro 339 >>> HD800.


 
  
 Do you mean "my *current *audio End game" ?


----------



## zilch0md

^  Haha!  Good one!  
  
 My *current* end-game systems have a half-life of about 3 days!


----------



## wink

Whilst ever there are new high end DACs, amps and headphones being manufactured and sold - THERE IS NO END GAME.....
  
 And, sorry about your wallet mortgage....


----------



## Sorrodje

"_Oh ye who enter here, abandon all hope!_" - Dante Mansilla


----------



## Justin_Time

zilch0md said:


> ^  Haha!  Good one!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


No end game? That's actually good news!

I have been in this game for over 30 years now and I must have thought I reached the end game at least a dozen times.

Even a slow fellow like me eventually realized that the fun is actaully in the chase.

Now I have a few more years to go to find the best amp for the HD800 before they get a new model out...

Today it is the Fosgate Signature: the little amp that could.

This little amp using a pair of 12AX7 tubes does a pretty good job on all the sensitive headphones I tried (Grado PS1000, TH-900, ATH W3000ANV) including the HD800. The pairing FOsgate/HD800 is quite nice. The little amp has a very useful bass switch that really works with the HD800. OK, before all you purists get all bent out of shape about bass boosting, EQ, and somesuch things...let me just point out that Fosgate did a great job with this feature. At the low boost, a nice "volume" of bass and impact was added to the HD800 without a noticeable impact on the upper bass or midrange.

For me, the fun is not really in the end game but in the chase!


----------



## frankrondaniel

justin_time said:


> zilch0md said:
> 
> 
> > ^  Haha!  Good one!
> ...


 
  
 Just received the Fosgate myself today!  Burning it in now.  I do agree that the bass boost works well with the HD800


----------



## Justin_Time

frankrondaniel said:


> Just received the Fosgate myself today!  Burning it in now.  I do agree that the bass boost works well with the HD800



 


Just for your info, the stock tubes (Sovtek?) sound a little harsh.

The Black Sable JJ Tesla sound nice and detailed, but has a little hardness with the HD800.

The Diamond Base Telefunken 12AX7 sounded better overall but may still be a little strong in the treble when paired with the HD800..

I like the NOS Sylvania overall. Not as detailed as the JJ Tesla or the Telefunken, but smoother in the midrange and sweeter in the highs.


----------



## frankrondaniel

justin_time said:


> frankrondaniel said:
> 
> 
> > Just received the Fosgate myself today!  Burning it in now.  I do agree that the bass boost works well with the HD800
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the suggestions.  I'm definitely sensitive to the highs, so I'll check on the Sylvania's.  That being said, the stock isn't too shabby - I'm curious to see if they change with burn-in.


----------



## Justin_Time

frankrondaniel said:


> Thanks for the suggestions.  I'm definitely sensitive to the highs, so I'll check on the Sylvania's.  That being said, the stock isn't too shabby - I'm curious to see if they change with burn-in.


 
 Yes they do--smoother mid and more extended extremes--but it took me about 50 hours to hear a noticeable difference!
  
 This amp likes a softer tube.  I was surprised--no, shocked--that the Telefunken NOS diamond base and even the Mullard were slightly too detailed, bordering on being too bright with this amp.  It seems to like the American tube sound (lush mid) better than the European tube sound (more accurate and extended).
  
 The Sylvania 12AX7 are moderately priced.


----------



## subtle

purrin said:


> By approximate price give or take a few hundred - not in order of sound quality - and only in relation to HD800.
> 
> 
> DSHA-1 - solid-state but not solid-state amp. not tubey sounding, but treble charactersitics akin to tube. against the big boy tube amps, a just one notch below in terms of explosiveness an resolution. Really great for solid-state, but again properly implement tubes are always clearer and more resolving.
> ...


 
  
 Purrin...excellent list and description of each amp.
  
 I see your impressions regarding the DSHA-1.  Have you also had a chance to listen to the L-2?


----------



## Sorrodje

subtle said:


> Purrin...excellent list and description of each amp.
> 
> I see your impressions regarding the DSHA-1.  Have you also had a chance to listen to the L-2?


 
  
  
 Just shoot him a MP. I think he's still locked off this topic


----------



## RingingEars

I just joined the club. 
 I started toying with the idea of a new set of headphones a few weeks ago. I started pining for my DT880(600ohm) and Crack combo I sold a couple years ago and started looking for a replacement.
 I looked into the new HE-560 then the LCD-2 then my wife said "have you seen these Sennheiser HD800? They're beautiful" So needless to say I bought the HD800 
 I also bought the new Lyr 2 and the Bifrost Uber to pair with it.
 I'm looking forward to getting back into hi-fi headphones again.


----------



## koiloco

ringingears said:


> I just joined the club.
> I started toying with the idea of a new set of headphones a few weeks ago. I started pining for my DT880(600ohm) and Crack combo I sold a couple years ago and started looking for a replacement.
> I looked into the new HE-560 then the LCD-2 then my wife said "have you seen these Sennheiser HD800? They're beautiful" So needless to say I bought the HD800
> I also bought the new Lyr 2 and the Bifrost Uber to pair with it.
> I'm looking forward to getting back into hi-fi headphones again.


 

 Your wife has great taste and you are lucky to have her.


----------



## Canadian411

ringingears said:


> I just joined the club.
> I started toying with the idea of a new set of headphones a few weeks ago. I started pining for my DT880(600ohm) and Crack combo I sold a couple years ago and started looking for a replacement.
> I looked into the new HE-560 then the LCD-2 then my wife said "have you seen these Sennheiser HD800? They're beautiful" So needless to say I bought the HD800
> I also bought the new Lyr 2 and the Bifrost Uber to pair with it.
> I'm looking forward to getting back into hi-fi headphones again.


 
  
 Welcome to HD800 club, next thing is to ask her which amp she likes 
 And you made a right "final" decision,


----------



## RingingEars

koiloco said:


> Your wife has great taste and you are lucky to have her.


 
 Yes. She is great 
  


canadian411 said:


> Welcome to HD800 club, next thing is to ask her which amp she likes
> And you made a right "final" decision,


 
 Yep. A new amp will be in next years budget, but hopefully the Lyr and Bifrost will get me through until then. I'm thinking WA5


----------



## blackwolf1006

ringingears said:


> I just joined the club.
> I started toying with the idea of a new set of headphones a few weeks ago. I started pining for my DT880(600ohm) and Crack combo I sold a couple years ago and started looking for a replacement.
> I looked into the new HE-560 then the LCD-2 then my wife said "have you seen these Sennheiser HD800? They're beautiful" So needless to say I bought the HD800
> I also bought the new Lyr 2 and the Bifrost Uber to pair with it.
> I'm looking forward to getting back into hi-fi headphones again.


 
  
 welcome. Next thing you should do is get some decent custom cables. After getting custom cables the the HD800 sound louder and has a richer audio audio quality.


----------



## blackwolf1006

I’ve been listening to the HD800 and the LCD-XC a lot lately.  The HD800 is like your booty call girl. She will do some things to you that will make your toes curl, but she lacks something that makes her good for a long term relationship (Listening for more than 2 hours).  She is the wine and dine type of girl (only the best amps and cables make her happy)
  
  The LCD-XC is the wife type. She’s good for the long hall but can get a little heavy (Literally) and boring at times (so true in a marriage).  It doesn’t take much to make her happy (No need for a pricy amp), But she will show her appreciation when she get gifts (Connect a decent amp)


----------



## barid

blackwolf1006 said:


> I’ve been listening to the HD800 and the LCD-XC a lot lately.  The HD800 is like your booty call girl. She will do some things to you that will make your toes curl, but she lacks something that makes her good for a long term relationship (Listening for more than 2 hours).  She is the wine and dine type of girl (only the best amps and cables make her happy)
> 
> The LCD-XC is the wife type. She’s good for the long hall but can get a little heavy (Literally) and boring at times (so true in a marriage).  It doesn’t take much to make her happy (No need for a pricy amp), But she will show her appreciation when she get gifts (Connect a decent amp)


 
  
 ....yeah and then the Grado is like last call at the bar before they turn on the lights....


----------



## RingingEars

blackwolf1006 said:


> welcome. Next thing you should do is get some decent custom cables. After getting custom cables the the HD800 sound louder and has a richer audio audio quality.


 
 I've already been looking into cables for it  Not sure where to even begin though.
 I have the BTG sunrise on my CIEMs and they look nice but I don't really notice a difference in sound quality over the stock cable.
 I love the looks of the Norne cables so I'll probably end up getting those. Not sure if I should use copper or silver...


----------



## lovethatsound

ringingears said:


> I've already been looking into cables for it  Not sure where to even begin though.
> I have the BTG sunrise on my CIEMs and they look nice but I don't really notice a difference in sound quality over the stock cable.
> I love the looks of the Norne cables so I'll probably end up getting those. Not sure if I should use copper or silver...


maybe you should keep the cable that's on your hd800s.At least home demo other cables before you buy, to really see if you can hear a difference for the better. You know the cable you get with your hd800s is quite good,better than alot of after market cables.Try before you buy my friend.


----------



## kemal21

Mods can delete the message


----------



## White Lotus

blackwolf1006 said:


> I’ve been listening to the HD800 and the LCD-XC a lot lately.  The HD800 is like your booty call girl. She will do some things to you that will make your toes curl, but she lacks something that makes her good for a long term relationship (Listening for more than 2 hours).  She is the wine and dine type of girl (only the best amps and cables make her happy)
> 
> The LCD-XC is the wife type. She’s good for the long hall but can get a little heavy (Literally) and boring at times (so true in a marriage).  It doesn’t take much to make her happy (No need for a pricy amp), But she will show her appreciation when she get gifts (Connect a decent amp)


 
  
 Hilarious post, but I actually disagree, I prefer the HD800 for long sessions.
  
 Comfort reigns supreme.


----------



## MattTCG

white lotus said:


> Hilarious post, but I actually disagree, I prefer the HD800 for long sessions.
> 
> Comfort reigns supreme.


 
  
 Comfort has continued to creep up and up on my list also. There is none better for comfort than the 800 IMHO.


----------



## zilch0md

zilch0md said:


> I just ordered a Metrum Acoustics Octave MkII.
> 
> If the following chain doesn't satisfy my quest for a less fatiguing HD800, I'll call it quits and sell it (maybe).
> 
> ...


 
  
 For anyone who has been struggling with the bright, edgy sound of an HD800 on a typical solid state amp...
  
 The Metrum Octave MkII (NOS DAC) has arrived and, fresh out of the box, it's already doing wonderful things with the unmodified HD800 on a neutral amp (OPPO HA-1 or even the DACmini CX with 1-Ohm output impedance mod). The Octave MkII has smooth yet still detailed treble, terrific separation, with everything sounding very natural. That's the part that's the biggest jaw-dropper. I'm listening to Jennifer Warnes at the moment.  Dynamics are awesome. It is WAY nicer than the ESS9018 in the HA-1 (for my tastes).  Me thinks I can actually listen to the HD800 for a few hours now, without fatigue, but that's just the half of it. Enough gushing, for now...


----------



## punit

white lotus said:


> Hilarious post, but I actually disagree, I prefer the HD800 for long sessions.
> 
> Comfort reigns supreme.


 

 Agree.Can listen to HD 800 for 7-8 hours. But XC is max couple of hours (I love the XC sound) but just need to take a break in between.


----------



## kothganesh

punit said:


> Agree.Can listen to HD 800 for 7-8 hours. But XC is max couple of hours (I love the XC sound) but just need to take a break in between.



Punit, you need to go the gym . I can go for 4 hours at a clip.


----------



## Mortalcoil

barid said:


> ....yeah and then the Grado is like last call at the bar before they turn on the lights....


 

 You forgot to mention .......while wearing beer goggles.


----------



## punit

kothganesh said:


> Punit, you need to go the gym
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Oh its not because of the weight. Its bcos they are closed, I feel my ears need to "breathe" after couple of hours, feels a bit stuffy.


----------



## Sorrodje

zilch0md said:


> For anyone who has been struggling with the bright, edgy sound of an HD800 on a typical solid state amp...
> 
> The Metrum Octave MkII (NOS DAC) has arrived and, fresh out of the box, it's already doing wonderful things with the unmodified HD800 on a neutral amp (OPPO HA-1 or even the DACmini CX with 1-Ohm output impedance mod). The Octave MkII has smooth yet still detailed treble, terrific separation, with everything sounding very natural. That's the part that's the biggest jaw-dropper. I'm listening to Jennifer Warnes at the moment.  Dynamics are awesome. It is WAY nicer than the ESS9018 in the HA-1 (for my tastes).  Me thinks I can actually listen to the HD800 for a few hours now, without fatigue, but that's just the half of it. Enough gushing, for now...


 
  
 Yep. The MEtrum Octave compliments extremely well the HD800. The way it reproduces voices is astonishing. The only counterparts I can detect is it's not totally transparent. It has a specific flavor on its own. I think it offers astounding good results fo most modern music but i've never been entirely satisfied for Classical for example. For everything else than Classical my Octave is an absolute great choice with an unmodded HD800.  My sonett 2 doesn't add much personality but adds the slight tube wetness and even more naturalness to the final result. IMO the Sonett brings also an extremely good separation between instruments . Voices are extremely well delineated. The final result is definitely not warmer or darker than with the O2/ODac. The sound seems to have more body more weight on the whole FR. Bass are more textured and weighty  Mids more meaty and even treble seems thicker and more integrated in the FR.
  
 See here : http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/thoughts-on-a-bunch-of-dacs-and-why-i-hate-chocolate-ice-cream . Before I read Purrin impressions , I thought the best of the Octave was its bass . so I've read Purrin and tried to understand what he said and then I realized that since I've the Metrum I listen Much more to Folk, Electro folk or other styles with voices ( Newton Faulkner, Asgeir, Agnes Obel , Ane Brun ) and much more EDM too so I understood Purrin was right about the Octave main strenght. It's not only bass but more in the mids . The HD800 main weakness is not the treble IMO. it's more the slight lack of body in the mids. The Octave fixes that . then treble, mids and bass are more integrated ant the whole result improves a lot. Not as the same level to the SR009/electra I heard a few weeks ago but not so far.
  
 Mu current Bushmaster is extremely good but fails to do that and the silghtly hollow mids of HD800 are back. I've ordered the Caïman and maybe the TOTL beresford will sit somewhere in between the Bushmaster and the Octave mkII ?


----------



## whirlwind

I just scored a great deal on a dozen old cds.
  
 I have been just mesmerized with an old remaster of Dire Straits debut album.
  
 Holy $hit.......This version of Six Blade Knife is definitely  a wow factor experience with the HD800.
  
 Good lord, when this can produces....it produce's BIG!
  
 I so much love this headphone


----------



## Priidik

> Mu current Bushmaster is extremely good but fails to do that and the silghtly hollow mids of HD800 are back. I've ordered the Caïman and maybe the TOTL beresford will sit somewhere in between the Bushmaster and the Octave mkII ?


 
 Looking forward to your thoughts.


----------



## magiccabbage

whirlwind said:


> I just scored a great deal on a dozen old cds.
> 
> I have been just mesmerized with an old remaster of Dire Straits debut album.
> 
> ...


 
 I have the same CD - its amazing on HD800 alright. So is "water of love"


----------



## whirlwind

magiccabbage said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > I just scored a great deal on a dozen old cds.
> ...


 
 Yeah.....this cd and headphone combo is just 100% completely off the hook
  
 I mean really, really good stuff


----------



## mikemercer

Just submitted my review to Steven at EnjoyTheMusic.com of the NuForce HA-200 stereo headphone amps in monoblock configuration - driving my HD800s and Audeze cans!!
  
 Those damn lil class A solid state amps are $349 a piece!
 Hailing from the wacky world of high-end audio, that price sounds reasonable to me!
  
 Reviews out soon - had a BLAST!

 This monoblock system is under 1K - and it sounded so magnificent w/ my 800s + Double Helix Complement3 & 4 dual XLR!!! The tunes, from underground EDM to Sam Cooke and Yo La Tengo were fluid, dynamic as F____, wide-open, and infectious...


----------



## Sorrodje

priidik said:


> Looking forward to your thoughts.


 
  
  
 i'll give them  ...You can already notice that IMO the Bushmaster mkII is a tremendous value . I used it most exclusively during the last week  . Amazing wide an deep 3D soundstage ( The Octave seems more intimate)  , very detailed but not cold or boring. the only shortcoming I noticed is that the overall tone is a bit too thin for the HD800. trying the Bushmaster with an audeze for example should be interesting.


----------



## skeptic

zilch0md said:


> The Metrum Octave MkII (NOS DAC) has arrived and, fresh out of the box, it's already doing wonderful things with the unmodified HD800....


 
  


sorrodje said:


> Yep. The MEtrum Octave compliment extremely well the HD800. The way it reproduces voices is astonishing .... I realized that since I've the Metrum I listen Much more to Folk, Electro folk or other styles with voices ( Newton Faulkner, Asgeir, Agnes Obel , Ane Brun ) ....


 
  
 Man - you guys paint a tempting picture.  I've been holding out for a virtual eternity waiting on the release of the bh dac or yggy, but the metrum may have to be added to my list of contenders.  Love Newton Faulkner by the way.  Discovered him as the opening act at an Ingrid Michaelson show ~7 years ago, and he is a wonderful live act in addition to being a great recording artist.  Used to sing his "Lullaby" to my little one every night.


----------



## Sorrodje

Newton Faulkner is the Artist I listened the most in the three last month. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  .The only problem with the Metrum Octave mkI is that it's really hard to find used.


----------



## whirlwind

sorrodje said:


> Newton Faulkner is the Artist I listened the most in the three last month.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I hear you.....the amps that i want most are tuff to get used.


----------



## nephilim32

magiccabbage said:


> I have the same CD - its amazing on HD800 alright. So is "water of love"



You can thank Bob Ludwig for the amazing mastering on that album and mixing. Boy do I love cranking 'brothers in arms' with my 800's. good lord!!!


----------



## nephilim32

mikemercer said:


> Just submitted my review to Steven at EnjoyTheMusic.com of the NuForce HA-200 stereo headphone amps in monoblock configuration - driving my HD800s and Audeze cans!!
> 
> Those damn lil class A solid state amps are $349 a piece!
> Hailing from the wacky world of high-end audio, that price sounds reasonable to me!
> ...




Really nice headphone cable. I'm still using the stock one at the moment, and it is the last alteration I have to do for my system.


----------



## whirlwind

nephilim32 said:


> magiccabbage said:
> 
> 
> > I have the same CD - its amazing on HD800 alright. So is "water of love"
> ...


 
 100%.....I agree and feel the exact same way as you do


----------



## zilch0md

sorrodje said:


> Yep. The MEtrum Octave compliment extremely well the HD800. The way it reproduces voices is astonishing. The only counterparts I can detect is it's not totally transparent. It has a specific flavor on its own. I think it offers astonishing good results fo most modern music but i've never been entirely satisfied for Classical for example. For everything else than Classical my Octave is an absolute great choice with an unmodded HD800.  My sonett 2 doesn't add much personality but add the slight tube wetness and even more naturalness to the final result. IMO the Sonett brings also an extremely good separation betwenn intruments . Voices are extremely welle delineated. The final result is definitely not warmer or darker than with the O2/ODac. The sound seems to have more body more weight on the whole FR. Bass are more textured and weighty  Mids more meaty and even treble seems thjicker and more integrated in the FR.
> 
> See here : http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/thoughts-on-a-bunch-of-dacs-and-why-i-hate-chocolate-ice-cream . Before I read Purrin impressions , I thought the best of the Octave was its bass . so I've read Purrin and tried to understand what he said and then I realized that since I've the Metrum I listen Much more to Folk, Electro folk or other styles with voices ( Newton Faulkner, Asgeir, Agnes Obel , Ane Brun ) and much more EDM too so I understood Purrin was right about the Octave main strenght. It's not only bass but more mids . The HD800 main weakness is not the treble IMO. it's more the slight lack of body in the mids. The Octave fixes that . then treble, mids and bass are more integrated ant the whole result improves a lot. Not as the same level to the SR009/electra I heard a few weeks ago but not so far.
> 
> Mu current Bushmaster is extremely good but fails to do that and the silghtly hollow mids of HD800 are back. I've ordered the Caïman and maybe the TOTL beresford will sit somewhere in between the Bushmaster and the Octave mkII ?




As a newcomer to the Octave MKII's strengths with the HD800, your observations nevertheless seem to be spot on with what I'm hearing!




sorrodje said:


> i'll give them  ...You can already notice that IMO the Bushmaster mkII is a tremendous value . I used it most exclusively during the last week  . Amazing wide an deep 3D soundstage ( The Octave seems more intimate)  , very detailed but not cold or boring. the only shortcoming I noticed is that the overall tone is a bit too thin for the HD800. trying the Bushmaster with an audeze for example should be interesting.




Having had the Bushmaster MKII for several months, I can attest that its own integrated amp is wonderful with the HD600 and even more so with the HD650 - a pairing that some people have likened to the synergy of the Speedballed Bottlehead Crack and HD650. The Bushmaster MKII noise floor goes bottomless on battery power and Stanley Beresford even offers a replacement IC for improved transparency and resolution, not recommended for use on potentially "dirty" mains power.

For a while now, the following components have been my standard suggestion for anyone wanting to get a lot of bang for the buck, spending $950 or so, total:

TeraDak X2 USB-to-SPDIF converter - $99
TeraDak X1/X2 5V PSU (with the excellent, included USB Y-cable that allows only data to come from your PC's USB port) - $80
Beresford Bushmaster MKII with battery upgrade IC - $265
HD650 - $399
Anker Astro Pro2 20000mAh battery pack to supply both 5V and 12V DC power - $99

Using a FiiO X5 or other DAP with coaxial or optical output, you can omit the PC (or laptop) and the TeraDak components, still powering everything, including the DAP, from the Anker battery.

The Bushmaster MKII's amp doesn't have enough power for the HD800 or LCD-2, but another great match is the OPPO PM-1 or PM-2.









Mike


----------



## Sorrodje

Because of you guys , I'm currently listening "Brother in Arms" .  The very first CD I've ever bought  in 1987 if I remember well. I was sixteen and My parents had just bought their first CD player. 
  
@zilch0md : You make me want a HD650 . The more I try different cans ,the more I think the HD650 would have a place of choice in my stable to compliment the HD800 when I want the lushness and the euphonic colouration I miss sometimes.


----------



## MattTCG

The 650 makes a great compliment to the 800 IMO.


----------



## Acapella11

Was today on the high end headphone room opening event of hifilounge in Biggleswade, UK. Demoed the pure class A Trilogy 931 headphone amp and with my Sennheiser HD800 and Norne Draug v2 cables, it was an amazing match. Black background and so transparent. Impressively, better than other amps I heard even the Bryston BHA-1. 
Should be in stores in November for £900.
Just fyi.
I am not affiliated with hifilounge or trilogy  but I was really impressed.


----------



## frankrondaniel

matttcg said:


> The 650 makes a great compliment to the 800 IMO.


 
  
 I wholeheartedly agree.  Recently bought a 650 to complement my 800 and often end up preferring it.


----------



## BournePerfect

Glad others are finding the magic of Dire Straits on the HD800. Brothers in Arms is usually the last song I listen to as it's lulls me to sleep. Great stuff indeed.


----------



## lin0003

A goo backup to then HD800 is the DT880 600 Ohm. It sounds very good and has a similar sound signature. When I just want to listen for a while or I'm doing work I will use those instead.


----------



## 62ohm

The HD650 does make for a decent complement to the HD800. Putting on the HD650 after HD800 feels very relaxing, but putting on the HD800 after the HD650 feels very liberating 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Strangely, I don't really like listening to Dire Straits on the HD650. 'Love Over Gold' sounded just too good to be true on the HD800 that I can't bear listening to it on the HD650.


----------



## mikemercer

I simply CANT STOP listening to this rig!!
 Full column coming at EnjoyTheMusic.com on Monday....
  
 HD800s via Double Helix Cables Complement3 dual XLR
 NuForce HA-200s in monoblock configuration ($349 a piece! and they're killer class A stereo headphone amps too)
 McIntosh D100 DAC
 MacBook Pro/Amarra Symphony


----------



## whirlwind

62ohm said:


> The HD650 does make for a decent complement to the HD800. Putting on the HD650 after HD800 feels very relaxing, but putting on the HD800 after the HD650 feels very liberating
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, Dire Straits and the HD800 seem to be a perfect match.
  
 oh, and for the record.....I have been thru the whole Pink Floyds remasters library, and I am putting them right there with Dire Straits.....sublime with the HD800


----------



## magiccabbage

whirlwind said:


> Yeah.....this cd and headphone combo is just 100% completely off the hook
> 
> I mean really, really good stuff


 
  


sorrodje said:


> Because of you guys , I'm currently listening "Brother in Arms" .  The very first CD I've ever bought  in 1987 if I remember well. I was sixteen and My parents had just bought their first CD player.
> 
> @zilch0md : You make me want a HD650 . The more I try different cans ,the more I think the HD650 would have a place of choice in my stable to compliment the HD800 when I want the lushness and the euphonic colouration I miss sometimes.


 
 I dunno if you guys like Jazz but I think this album is the best sounding HD800 album that I have ever heard. It is unbelievable the sound of the drums especially the track "Alice in wonderland". 
  

  
 The ultimate HD800 album


----------



## Sorrodje

magiccabbage said:


> I dunno if you guys like Jazz but I think this album is the best sounding HD800 album that I have ever heard. It is unbelievable the sound of the drums especially the track "Alice in wonderland".
> 
> 
> 
> The ultimate HD800 album


 
  
 ah ahhh I'll give it a listen.
  
 I've many Ultimate HD800 album . one of these is that one :


----------



## kothganesh

God, its been Brothers in Arms weekend here for me as well . My set up was the MBA into the Geek Out 720 and the 800. Let me tell you, the Geek Out packs a nice punch. And the album sounds special at a slightly higher than my normal listening volume.


----------



## pearljam50000

'OK COMPUTER' also sounds amazing ^_^


----------



## myc

This Latin Acoustic album sounds magical on HD 800:


----------



## ruthieandjohn

myc said:


> This Latin Acoustic album sounds magical on HD 800:


 

 Sure does.. just tried it (Thank You, Beats Music, for making it instantly available!)


----------



## Dopaminer

By far my most intense HD800 experience is coming from Kaya Project.  If you like electronica with a very strong organic theme, seasoned with quite a bit of raunch and funk and lots of interesting vocals, I can`t recommend them strongly enough. 
  
 http://www.kayaproject.com/
  
 d


----------



## rgs9200m

I may have said this before, but my over the top listening sessions with the HD800 these days is the Midnight Special DVD series. They are historic performances recorded superbly with the artists at their best and the HD800 brings out all the excitement and finest details without fatigue.
 TimeLifeMusic just re-released them. I use an Oppo 105D. 
 timelife.com/products/the-midnight-special-collector-s-edition


----------



## Sorrodje

@Dopaminer : Thks for the recommandation.
  
  
 You can try this too :
  

  
 And Her full album "Confession" . highly recommanded


----------



## ogodei

rgs9200m said:


> I may have said this before, but my over the top listening sessions with the HD800 these days is the Midnight Special DVD series. They are historic performances recorded superbly with the artists at their best and the HD800 brings out all the excitement and finest details without fatigue.
> TimeLifeMusic just re-released them. I use an Oppo 105D.
> timelife.com/products/the-midnight-special-collector-s-edition


 
  
 Ordered the 'standard' collectors set, thanks for the recommendation! 
  
 Looks like they have repackaged this multiple ways, someone online says there's a new 6 disc set (with bonus Disc 7) available at Costco for under $30.


----------



## rgs9200m

Thanks! Let us know what you think of them. Like I said, I just call it awesome, and I don't use that word lightly.


----------



## Sorrodje

magiccabbage said:


> I dunno if you guys like Jazz but I think this album is the best sounding HD800 album that I have ever heard. It is unbelievable the sound of the drums especially the track "Alice in wonderland".
> 
> 
> 
> The ultimate HD800 album


 
  
 Humph 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Impressive recording indeed !


----------



## magiccabbage

sorrodje said:


> Humph
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Isn't it, I wish there were more albums recorded like this


----------



## Frank I

The Violectric V281 balanced is doing a very nice job with the HD800 and balanced Heimdall plus the BDP 105 fully balanced. It sounds very detailed without any strident or tangy top-end . I will be doing a full review.  I think many could be happy with this combination.  It seem to be hearing whatever is in the recording and its not masking small detail that some lesser amp may not reveal.


----------



## Justin_Time

*THE HD800 MEETS A LITTLE AMP THAT COULD: *​ *THE FOSGATE SIGNATURE*​  
_Sorry to usurp this HD800 thread.  But this seems the most appropriate venue for discussing the sound of the HD800 with a new amp._
  
 In the process of breaking in my new HD800, I have been listening in the past three weeks to an unexpectedly good amp:  the Fosgate Signature.  This attractive little amp is a hybrid design using a pair of 12AX7 tubes for drivers and "video-buffers output stage" with no gain. It  delivers a modest  output for high-impedance headphones and is clearly intended for use with high-efficiency headphones.
  

  

  
  
*The first surprise*_:_  in spite of its modest power rating, the Fosgate Signature easily drives the Audio-Technica W3000ANV, Fostex TH-900, Grado PS1000, and Sennheiser HD800 to a very loud volume.  I also got excellent results with the HiFiMan HE-560 and Audeze LCD3, at  lower volumes of course.  More important than power, we all know that the HD800 needs, no, demands an amplifier with clean midrange and absolutely smooth treble to sound its best.  Anything less, and the HD800 will sound hard and bright, with more hissing than a Parseltongue convention. The Fosgate Signature takes on this challenge and delivers. 
 With this amp, the HD800's midrange is smooth and pleasantly warm (compared to the more analytical V200).  The tight, solid bass foundation is superior to that of the MAD Ear.  I hear plenty of details from the HD800 as well; they are pleasantly clean, never harsh or over-etched.  The Fosgate Signature does not have a typical "tube" sound, however. With the HD800, its sound is essentially neutral, with just a touch  of warmth; it is less analytical than the V2000 (SS) but more neutral than the MAD Ear+ HD (tube).  The noise floor is surprisingly lower than that of the battery-operated RWA Corvina (another excellent match for the HD800).   Unfortunately, there is a slight nasal coloration in the upper mid-range/low treble of the Fosgate, but this price point ($1,500), I did not expect perfection. The  Fosgate/HD800 pairing delivers a clean, open sound with a touch of warmth, a tight bass, plenty of inner details and a large soundstage. For this listener, that's a pretty good accomplishment.
  
*The second surprise*:  besides the very attractive look which drew me to it in the first place, what is most intriguing about this amp is the little bass switch. Now before you purists get your blood pressure up, let me assure you that this is an unusually well designed bass-boost with subtle effect far different from the usual equalizer.  For part of the music where there is little to no bass, turning on the switch has no  audible effect on the HD800 sound--I thought the switch was defective at first.  When bass is present, however, you hear a tight boost to the bass volume, with only a minimal elevation in the upper-bass region.  The mid-range is essentially unaffected.  The "Min" position is exactly what the doctor orders for the HD800 with a large variety of music.  The bass remains deep and taut, without the slow decay of the mid-bass, but with just the right added volume to get the big impact when you need it.  I find the "Max" position a little too intrusive for most music, especially with the TH-900 (even in the "Min." position).  But the great thing about this Bass switch is you don't have to use it if you don't want to.  In the "Off" position, the bass boosting circuitry is completely bypassed. But if you ever need it, it's there at your finger tips, and it's a lot cheaper than buying a new amp or another pair of headphones.  Nicely done.
 There is also a switch for the "Surround" effect that is bypassed the same way as the bass switch on the off position.  It purportedly mitigates the sound-in-the-middle-of-the-head effect  of headphones and allow the soundstage to escape the confines of the ear-cups.  Most of the time, I found the "Surround" sound weird, artificial and lacking in center focus and bass impact which is not a big surprise--I never like DSP on stereo-recorded music.  Besides, the HD800 soundstage is just about the best with headphone so I see little need for this sound manipulation.  But on occasion (orchestra, large band) and with the right music (Space music) the effect at the "Min" position (with the bass on Max) is highly enjoyable.  
  

  
 For you folks who love the HD800 but sometimes find its treble too sizzling and the bass impact wanting, the Fosgate Signature may just be the ticket for you.  It sounds quite good as well with sensitive cans like the Audio-Technica ATH-W3000ANV, Fostex TH-900, and Grado PS1000, and is quite serviceable with moderately sensitive planar like the HiFiMan HE-560 and Audeze LCD3.  Who knows, even if you do not love its sound, you may like this amp well enough to keep it anyway because it is so cute and quite reasonably priced--I got mine on sale for $895 and free shipping. It's a steal.
  
 Justin_Time
  
 NOTE:  The Fosgate's sound is sensitive to input tubes
 Stock (Sovtek?) 12AX7:  detailed but slightly sibilant and edgy
 J.J. Tesla (Black Sable): smooth midrange; slightly sibilant
 NOS Telefunken Diamond Base:  Great details and soundstage; extended extremes; slightly bright
 NOS Mullard (Black Sable): smooth, detailed, very spacious; sadly, slightly bright
 NOS Sylvania  12AX7WA & JSH: smooth midrange; sweet treble
 NOS JAN Philips (Black Sable):  liquid midrange, sweet treble; my favorite tubes with the Fosgate/HD800 pairing.


----------



## zilch0md

Thanks for this well-written mini-review JT!   It's certainly a tempting machine!
  
 As an aside, and I'm not kidding, I stared at the first photo of those headphones for about 15 seconds trying to figure out what they were, before it hit me that they are HD800s!   
  





 
  
 In your experience, for the HD800, what comes closest to the sound of this amp, in solid state?  
  
 Thanks!
  
 Mike


----------



## Justin_Time

zilch0md said:


> Thanks for this well-written mini-review JT!   It's certainly a tempting machine!
> 
> As an aside, and I'm not kidding, I stared at the first photo of those headphones for about 15 seconds trying to figure out what they were, before it hit me that they are HD800s!
> 
> ...


 
 Imagine the V200 with the same well-articulated details and tight bass but slightly warmer  in the mid-range (but not more liquid in the tube sense) and slightly softer treble (but not sweet like the GS-X, just less extended).


----------



## nephilim32

whirlwind said:


> 100%.....I agree and feel the exact same way as you do




It's simply an audiophile's dream come true. Superior recording. Actually I of course don't know how you feel about progressive rock, but the 2013 album of the year of the Prog music awards, Steven Wilson's: The Raven That Refused To Sing is not only a great piece of progressive rock music but its also an unbelievable recording too! Alan Parsons helped produce the album along with Wilson. It's unbelievable sound quality. I find no flaws. I use the ARCAM irDAC, Burson Soloist SL along with my 800's and I find its absolutely sonic bliss. Give it a spin if it interests you. 
Happy listening.


----------



## nephilim32

justin_time said:


> *[COLOR=006600]THE HD800 MEETS A LITTLE AMP THAT COULD:[/COLOR]*​
> 
> *[COLOR=006600]THE FOSGATE SIGNATURE[/COLOR]*​
> 
> ...




Once again, Justin. I am truly grateful for your candid research findings. Awesome man. Happy listening to you.


----------



## zilch0md

justin_time said:


> Imagine the V200 with the same well-articulated details and tight bass but slightly warmer  in the mid-range (but not more liquid in the tube sense) and slightly softer treble (but not sweet like the GS-X, just less extended).


 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## skeptic

Thanks for the music tips guys.  Been enjoying them and figured I'd reciprocate.  If anyone's interested in a legal freebie album - Wildlight, Her's Was as Thunder was posted a few weeks back in the flac thread.  Great on hd800's if you like concept of female folk vocals overlayed on downtempo electronic.  Makes me wish I knew where to find more music like this.
  

  
 Name your price ($0 accepted) on bandcamp: http://aylanereo.bandcamp.com/album/hers-was-as-thunder


----------



## mikemercer

skeptic said:


> Thanks for the music tips guys.  Been enjoying them and figured I'd reciprocate.  If anyone's interested in a legal freebie album - Wildlight, Her's Was as Thunder was posted a few weeks back in the flac thread.  Great on hd800's if you like concept of female folk vocals overlayed on downtempo electronic.  Makes me wish I knew where to find more music like this.
> 
> 
> 
> Name your price ($0 accepted) on bandcamp: http://aylanereo.bandcamp.com/album/hers-was-as-thunder


 
 ThanX for this music tip!
 This is right up my alley!
  
 LOVIN it on the HD800s!! I've been experiencing such AMAZING separation, soundstaging (even more-so than usual) and dynamic gestalt from my HD800s w/ these NuForce HA-200 stereo headphone amps in monoblock configuration - it's just SILLY how great music sounds through this system!!
  
  
  
  
 Also - speaking of great tunes for the HD800, IMO - the new Thom Yorke album: _Tomorrow's Modern Boxes_!!!! 
 I just reviewed the album for Positive Feedback HERE


----------



## Fearless1

> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Excellent review, I run the same combo, and agree with everything you said! The Fosgate also pairs well with the HE-500/560 despite it's conservative power rating.


----------



## Sorrodje

skeptic said:


> Name your price ($0 accepted) on bandcamp: http://aylanereo.bandcamp.com/album/hers-was-as-thunder


 
  
  
 Yes. i've found this recommandation  on the free flac thread. Great indeed  . Maybe you can try Asgeir and Chet Faker for som Folk/vocal/Electro mix.


----------



## whirlwind

nephilim32 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > 100%.....I agree and feel the exact same way as you do
> ...


 
 Thanks, i may give this a go.


----------



## zilch0md

Hey Mike!
  
 Quote:


mikemercer said:


> [snip]
> 
> LOVIN it on the HD800s!! I've been experiencing such AMAZING separation, soundstaging (even more-so than usual) and dynamic gestalt from my HD800s w/ these NuForce HA-200 stereo headphone amps in monoblock configuration - it's just SILLY how great music sounds through this system!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's always fun to see someone really enjoying their gear!
  
 Serious question, though:  What will be missing, if I purchase only one HA-200, instead of using two as monoblocks?  My admittedly non-existent experience with such configurations leaves me thinking that the only sonic benefits would be those that come with having twice the power and truly balanced operation, instead of a common ground going to each transducer.
  
 Despite my limited experience (with only two amps that allow me to switch between balanced and single-ended), I can't really say I've ever been able to hear any improvements related to the lack of a common ground, but I can vigorously attest to hearing improvements related to an increase in power that's had by going balanced - with improved dynamics and bass control - enjoyed only when the power output of running single-ended is truly _insufficient_ for a relatively_ inefficient_ headphone.  
  
 In other words, when the headphone is _sufficiently efficient_, as with the OPPO PM-1 on a powerful amp, like the OPPO HA-1, which provides plenty of power at the 6.3mm jack - I cannot hear any improvements when moving the PM-1 to the 4-Pin XLR jack (which bumps the power from 500 mw rms into 32-Ohms to 2000 mw, per factory specs.  But with the sufficienly inefficient LCD-2 rev.1, I can indeed here improvements when going from the TRS jack tothe 4-Pin XLR jack (when going from 455 mW to 1817 mW into its 50-Ohm load).  
  
 So... given that the HD800 is not particularly _inefficient _(certainly not like an HE-6 and I don't think even as inefficient as my LCD-2 rev.1), I'm wondering if your dual HA-200 monoblock configuration is improving dynamics and bass control (vs. running with one HA-200), or is it something else that's justifying the setup?  (I'm not able to make any sense of the HA-200's power specs.)
  
 Thanks!
  
 Mike


----------



## kothganesh

zilch0md said:


> It's always fun to see someone really enjoying their gear!
> 
> Serious question, though:  What will be missing, if I purchase only one HA-200, instead of using two as monoblocks?  My admittedly non-existent experience with such configurations leaves me thinking that the only sonic benefits would be those that come with having twice the power and truly balanced operation, instead of a common ground going to each transducer.
> 
> ...


 
 IMO, its not so much the power as much as the filling out of detail (or detail retrieval) and getting better layering. My experience has not been with the set up that Mr. Mercer has but within the genre of headphone amps (and from headphone to integrated amps) so I could be off base here.


----------



## zilch0md

Thanks for that, kothganesh.


----------



## RingingEars

Well guys I took you advise a couple pages back on the amp and cable.
 Cancelled the order on the Lyr 2 and Bifrost Uber combo and am getting the Mjolnir/Gungnir combo along with the Norne Vanquish cable


----------



## screwdriver

ringingears said:


> Well guys I took you advise a couple pages back on the amp and cable.
> Cancelled the order on the Lyr 2 and Bifrost Uber combo and am getting the Mjolnir/Gungnir combo along with the Norne Vanquish cable


 

 did u consider the Valhalla 2 ? or u are going all balanced?


----------



## Anavel0

ringingears said:


> Well guys I took you advise a couple pages back on the amp and cable.
> Cancelled the order on the Lyr 2 and Bifrost Uber combo and am getting the Mjolnir/Gungnir combo along with the Norne Vanquish cable


----------



## RingingEars

screwdriver said:


> did u consider the Valhalla 2 ? or u are going all balanced?


 
  
 All balanced. This will be my first balanced system 


anavel0 said:


>


 
 Yeah it did lol...


----------



## koiloco

ringingears said:


> Well guys I took you advise a couple pages back on the amp and cable.
> Cancelled the order on the Lyr 2 and Bifrost Uber combo and am getting the *Mjolnir/Gungnir* combo along with the Norne Vanquish cable


 
  
 Have you listened to this combo before?  If you were considering Lyr 2 and now switching to this combo, IMO, you are going down a different path as far as sound signature's concerned.
 I prefer the Lyr for HD800.  Mjolnir/Gungnir didn't get me going at all.


----------



## 62ohm

Many seem to despise the pairing Mjolnir/Gungnir makes with the HD800. Some says the problem is the Mjolnir, while some other says it's the Gungnir.
  
@koiloco what did you not like from the Schiit stack?


----------



## koiloco

62ohm said:


> Many seem to despise the pairing Mjolnir/Gungnir makes with the HD800. Some says the problem is the Mjolnir, while some other says it's the Gungnir.
> 
> @koiloco what did you not like from the Schiit stack?


 
  
 I like the DAC but not the amp, IMO and to my personal preference, the Mjolnir doesn't complement the HD800 well.
 Vs. the Lyr, while the Lyr isn't exactly a tubey amp, it does take off the edge slightly in the HD800 and balances out the sound to make the HD800 more enjoyable.


----------



## Justin_Time

koiloco said:


> I like the DAC but not the amp, IMO and to my personal preference, the Mjolnir doesn't complement the HD800 well.
> Vs. the Lyr, while the Lyr isn't exactly a tubey amp, it does take off the edge slightly in the HD800 and balances out the sound to make the HD800 more enjoyable.




Completely agree on the Mjolnir.

It is a little thin in the bass and has a lot of...sparkles in the treble, almost a perfect complement to the LCDs, which needs no help in the bass but benefits from a little more excitement in the treble. I love this combination...in small doses.

The Mjolnir exacerbates the weaknesses of the HD800: the bass becomes even thinner than usual and the treble changes from slightly to unbearably bright. Not a pleasant combination in the short or long run.


----------



## MattTCG

62ohm said:


> Many seem to despise the pairing Mjolnir/Gungnir makes with the HD800. Some says the problem is the Mjolnir, while some other says it's the Gungnir.
> 
> @koiloco what did you not like from the Schiit stack?


 
  
 IMO it's the Mjo that doesn't work for the 800. The gun is actually a nice dac for the 800.


----------



## RingingEars

So what amp do you guys prefer with the 800? I was also looking at the WA2 and V200. Bear-in-mind I haven't heard any of these. 
 Also what dac would you use?


----------



## MattTCG

Purrin has had a lot to say regarding your question. Just do a search and you'll get the info. 
  
 IMO:
  
 Good amps for the 800:
  
 *Vali-decent on a shoestring budget
  
 *Valhalla 2-way better than it should be at $350
  
 *GS X mkii-one of the best although Marv will not agree on this one
  
 DACS:
  
 *Bifrost uber on a budget is pretty good
  
 *Gungnir a clear upgrade to the bifrost especially balanced (competes surprisingly well against my favorite m51)
  
 *NAD m51-outstanding DAC and great synergy with the hd800


----------



## magiccabbage

ringingears said:


> So what amp do you guys prefer with the 800? I was also looking at the WA2 and V200. Bear-in-mind I haven't heard any of these.
> Also what dac would you use?


 
 I like the WA2 - when I get the Stratus I will write up more.


----------



## Maxvla

matttcg said:


> IMO it's the Mjo that doesn't work for the 800. The gun is actually a nice dac for the 800.



Opposite for sure.


----------



## MattTCG

Respectfully disagree. I spend a lot of time evaluating the gungnir as dac with lot's of good amps. It really shines as a dac with the 800. The mjolnir does nothing good for the 800 IMO.


----------



## kothganesh

matttcg said:


> Purrin has had a lot to say regarding your question. Just do a search and you'll get the info.
> 
> IMO:
> 
> ...


 
 Matt:
 Been noting your preference for the NAD and I do believe you tried the Gungnir before it? What in your opinion differentiates the NAD and the Gungnir. The reason I ask is that I have the latter but I have a friend really pushing me to buy the NAD. He is using it with a speaker rig. Thanks.


----------



## Maxvla

I tried the Gungnir with a number of amps over time and decided the DAC was just too shouty, especially with HD800s. It's a loud and louder DAC, lacking in dynamic contrast. The Mjolnir by comparison was adaptable to the various DACs I used with it, the sound changing with the DAC change. I'm not sure Mjolnir is a great match with HD800s, but it certainly isn't bad or even mediocre.


----------



## paradoxper

Gun is a bity shouty as is Mjolnir on their own. Gun paired with a more laid back or smoother amp become a 'synergistic' combo. Same goes for Mjolnir with a less assertive DAC i.e. PWD or M51. All this with the HD800.
 With the Audez'es Mojo and Gun are a fantastic pairing.


----------



## fortitude

matttcg said:


> Respectfully disagree. I spend a lot of time evaluating the gungnir as dac with lot's of good amps. It really shines as a dac with the 800. The mjolnir does nothing good for the 800 IMO.


 
  
 Agree with this, the Mjolnir only magnified the peaky regions of the HD800.  Gungnir was good, but not great.


----------



## RingingEars

Hmmmmmmm. Man you guys are making this hard for a guy that has limited(read 0) experience with any HP amp other than the crack and a couple of cheap tripath or portables 
 My budget for amp and dac is $1800 so the NAD m51 is out. Any one have any experience with the zdac and so to stay on topic, how well does it pair with the HD800?
  
 Edit: how about a dac that synergizes well with the V200


----------



## preproman

paradoxper said:


> Gun is a bity shouty as is Mjolnir on their own. Gun paired with a more laid back or smoother amp become a 'synergistic' combo. Same goes for Mjolnir with a less assertive DAC i.e. PWD or M51. All this with the HD800.
> *With the Audez'es Mojo and Gun are a fantastic pairing.*


 
  
 Right about that.  I wonder if the Ragg / Ygg can top it with the LCDs


----------



## BleaK

ringingears said:


> Hmmmmmmm. Man you guys are making this hard for a guy that has limited(read 0) experience with any HP amp other than the crack and a couple of cheap tripath or portables
> My budget for amp and dac is $1800 so the NAD m51 is out. Any one have any experience with the zdac and so to stay on topic, how well does it pair with the HD800?
> 
> Edit: how about a dac that synergizes well with the V200


 
  
 I love my X-Sabre dac with HD800. It's going for around 1k. Sometimes less for a used. I liked the Vali with this combo, but you might get better value with the Valhalla 2. If you want solid state V200 should also be really good as a under 1k option amp (used).


----------



## koiloco

ringingears said:


> So what amp do you guys prefer with the 800? I was also looking at the WA2 and V200. Bear-in-mind I haven't heard any of these.
> Also what dac would you use?


 
  
 If you have the budget then go with WA2 with some upgraded tubes.  Recently, I had the pleasure to listen to HD800 driven by a Vali.  I must say that for $150, the Vali does wonder.
 If you wanna go with the WA2 route, I recommend that you find a way to try it out first.  
 I know it's tough to decide mainly on advise/reviews but for the most part, people in this thread are really straight forward and honest in their opinions.  Gluck with your search.


----------



## lin0003

Sabre DACs do not work well with the HD800, makes then sound very detailed, but lifeless. If you can get a NAD M51 used for around 1k that would be good.


----------



## Maxvla

Depends on the Sabre DAC.


----------



## nigeljames

lin0003 said:


> Sabre DACs do not work well with the HD800, makes then sound very detailed, but lifeless. If you can get a NAD M51 used for around 1k that would be good.


 
  
 That is wrong on so many levels.


----------



## lin0003

It's what I think, but obviously I haven't tried every Sabre DAC, and I'm sure a lot of others like Sabres with their HD800.


----------



## screwdriver

The Valhalla 2 I heard with the hd800and its very good. But its not balanced , I know u are looking for balanced.


----------



## Acapella11

Using the HD800 with an Audiolab M-DAC as DAC, which employs an ESS Sabre32 9018 chip. Works brilliantly.


----------



## RingingEars

screwdriver said:


> The Valhalla 2 I heard with the hd800and its very good. But its not balanced , I know u are looking for balanced.


 
 No it doesn't have to be balanced. I just liked the idea of it. I've never owned, or heard for that matter, a fully balanced rig so I don't know if it makes a difference sonically.
 I'm open to all suggestions. I just want to do it right.


----------



## 62ohm

acapella11 said:


> Using the HD800 with an Audiolab M-DAC as DAC, which employs an ESS Sabre32 9018 chip. Works brilliantly.


 
  
 What do you think about the M-DAC for the HD800? Have you tried to compare it with other DACs? There's currently a sale on the M-DAC at my local audio shop, but even with the sale it's still $400 more expensive than the Arcam irDAC.


----------



## rgs9200m

My Sabre-based Oppo 105D sounds excellent with my HD800.
 (Actually, it's the amp/headphone synergy that is by far the most important issue. I've never thought a DAC should be paired or not paired with a particular phone.)


----------



## No_One411

For what it's worth, I'm running the HD800 out of an Anedio D2 and Schiit Vali and it sounds really really good. No huge problems with the Anedio implementation of the Sabre chip.


----------



## RUMAY408

I was recently at a Head-Fi meet and was blown away by the Norne Draug 2 cables and bought them on site.  
  
 Matt helped me re-cable my HD800 and I can't thank him enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 A re-cable on the HD800 juiced the HP enough I had to crank the Meier Amp down 2 notches


----------



## 62ohm

rumay408 said:


> I was recently at a Head-Fi meet and was blown away by the Norne Draug 2 cables and bought them on site.
> 
> Matt helped me re-cable my HD800 and I can't thank him enough
> 
> ...


 
  
 Does it really make a difference? Did you compared the Draug 2 with other cables? I'm currently using the Norne Skoll and I can't seem to distinguish any difference between it and Sennheiser's own CH800S. But if the Draug 2 do make a difference then I guess it would worth the money..


----------



## MickeyVee

^^ Interesting - that's twice Norne cables came up for me tonight - just might give them a try this go around but for my new HE-560 - Have Q and ADL cables for my HD800 and am perfectly happy with them.


----------



## RUMAY408

^^ I'm making a judgement from the stock Senns cables and a straight ahead comparison.  I love the HD800's imaging and soundstage and it was 20% better by my estimate with the upgrade.  Matt thought the change was 10-15% better with the Draug 2, if he's impressed then I'll take that and run.
  
 Seriously cheaper than some other cables, but still not cheap.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

rumay408 said:


> ^^ I'm making a judgement from the stock Senns cables and a straight ahead comparison.  I love the HD800's imaging and soundstage and it was 20% better by my estimate with the upgrade.  Matt thought the change was 10-15% better with the Draug 2, if he's impressed then I'll take that and run.
> 
> Seriously cheaper than some other cables, but still not cheap.


 
 Matt, h[size=x-small]ad told me minutes before "that cables do not make that much difference". Not to put words in Matt's mouth but the look on his face said [/size]epiphany[size=x-small]! I also added the Draug 2 to my 560, and sold a set Norne Skoll Cables to Skyline for his HD700's. [/size]
  
 [size=x-small]​I do have experience with cables making a difference in a two channel rig, but the posative changes wrought in headphones/personal listening is extraordinary! Now just waiting on the Ragnarok for the endgame![/size]


----------



## Wildcatsare1

62ohm said:


> Does it really make a difference? Did you compared the Draug 2 with other cables? I'm currently using the Norne Skoll and I can't seem to distinguish any difference between it and Sennheiser's own CH800S. But if the Draug 2 do make a difference then I guess it would worth the money..


 
 62ohm, in my conversations with Trevor he indicated that the Draug Series was created primarily for the 800's, but the Vanquish was an excellent alternative.At the same meeting I sold the pair of Skoll 2's Trevor sent me to Skyline for his HD700's. I have the DRaug 2 on my 560's, and Vanquish on my Alpha Dogs, both exceptional cable.
  
 The new silver litz cable Norne is launching this month is going to be a tour de force, Trevor spoke about designing the sliver and copper litz wires in such a manner that it will take the strengths of both, while minimizing the weaknesses. No tizzy, hot, high end, the speed and purity of both copper and silver, I can't wait to get a set!!!


----------



## Canadian411

rumay408 said:


> ^^ I'm making a judgement from the stock Senns cables and a straight ahead comparison.  I love the HD800's imaging and soundstage and it was 20% better by my estimate with the upgrade.  Matt thought the change was 10-15% better with the Draug 2, if he's impressed then I'll take that and run.
> 
> Seriously cheaper than some other cables, but still not cheap.




So u compared the SE cable vs balanced cable?


----------



## 62ohm

wildcatsare1 said:


> 62ohm said:
> 
> 
> > Does it really make a difference? Did you compared the Draug 2 with other cables? I'm currently using the Norne Skoll and I can't seem to distinguish any difference between it and Sennheiser's own CH800S. But if the Draug 2 do make a difference then I guess it would worth the money..
> ...


 
  
 Did you get the chance to compare the two cables side-by-side before selling the Skoll? The Draug would cost me over $300 to get, which means I would have to pay taxes for it while I got the Skoll without having to pay taxes.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^^62ohm, unfortunately I didn't, the Skoll 2 was terminated for the 700's, not the 800's.


----------



## BournePerfect

matttcg said:


> Respectfully disagree. I spend a lot of time evaluating the gungnir as dac with lot's of good amps. It really shines as a dac with the 800. The mjolnir does nothing good for the 800 IMO.


 
  
 IME it's both-but mainly the Gungnir. I also agree that the MJ isn't the best pairing with the HD800-but the Gungnir was absolutely terrible for the HD800 when I implemented it into the BHA-1/800 chain, which was wonderful with many other dacs in it's place.
  
 Sounds lik the Rag will be Schiit's de facto HD800 ss amp. Time will tell.


----------



## White Lotus




----------



## lin0003




----------



## whirlwind

rumay408 said:


> I was recently at a Head-Fi meet and was blown away by the Norne Draug 2 cables and bought them on site.
> 
> Matt helped me re-cable my HD800 and I can't thank him enough
> 
> ...


 
 I am soon to get these cables for my HD800.
  
 I already have the cable configured and it is in my cart waiting


----------



## MickeyVee

Very nice setups White Lotus and lin003!


----------



## Frank I

One of the most synergistic systems for the HD800 is the Chord Hugo with an AK240 and Heimdall cable. it is really something to hear and one of my favorite combos. Will be taking  it to Denver if anyone is going would be glad to have them take a listen. It dont get much better and for most it could  satisfy for a for a long time.


----------



## zhenya

I'm quite happy with my Yulong DA-8 Sabre implementation with the HD800's although I don't have a lot of other stuff to directly compare it to.
  
 I will say that the Yulong --> GS-1 --> HD800's makes for a very revealing chain which works fantastically for some albums and decidedly less so for others. I love it will well recorded folk, jazz and orchestral works where the clarity and complete transparency lets the instruments stand out individually like nothing else I've ever heard. For more mainstream albums, many of which are recorded and/or mastered with less care, they can definitely be a little bit too much, or just plain feel like they are missing something. It's no wonder people have different opinions on these headphones and what they pair well with as the contribution of everything in the chain is made quite clear.
  
 Perhaps someone can help shed some light on something I noticed last night. I was revisiting some Dire Straits albums I haven't listened to in years after the discussion here (found that these are now attainable in DSD!) and specifically the first album, _Dire Straits_ which I really like as I feel like it is significantly less 'produced' than their later stuff. Anyhow, this was definitely a case where having the GS-1 in the chain was extremely analytical but not all that much fun. It wasn't overly bright, it was just almost too detailed for this recording. Switching to the 320kbps stream of the remastered version from Beats Audio was actually more enjoyable with that setup, although it was noticeably less forward and vibrant in its presentation. However, switching to the Woo Audio amp and the DSD version really came alive! The mid-range just bloomed with a weight not present with the GS-1, and most noticeably, the drums just hit with a sharpness and intensity that you could feel; it really sounded so much more like the real thing.
  
 Technical details on my Woo are sparse - basically it's an OTL amp based on the old WA-1. Nothing special by today's standards. Is this largely an interaction with the higher output impedance of the Woo? Anyone have any other technical reasons for these differences?


----------



## Frank I

The sound of tube amps usually is different. The differences and why I enjoy tubes amps in particular are the midrange and tonality; in my opinion get as close to what I hear live. The HD800 does really well with tubes amplifiers in general. Now there are also excellent solid state amps that can  deliver with the hd800 the GSX MK11 and the Violectric V281 come to mind an do a terrific job as well. The Hugo is another great amp mysteriously dynamic and one my go to systems on the road or when I feel like sitting outside or in another room.


----------



## koiloco

rumay408 said:


> I was recently at a Head-Fi meet and was blown away by the Norne Draug 2 cables and bought them on site.
> 
> Matt helped me re-cable my HD800 and I can't thank him enough
> 
> ...


 
  
 Please explain how this is possible?  My engineering mind is really curious.


----------



## fzman

koiloco said:


> Please explain how this is possible?  My engineering mind is really curious.


 
  
 there are a number of reasons for this, none of which involve the cable making the headphones actually louder.  the cable could alter the 'flavor' of the output such that it was more satisfying at lower volume, or more annoying at higher volumes.  of course if you do not believe there are any audible differences in cables, no mater what, then.........   never mind


----------



## zhenya

frank i said:


> The sound of tube amps usually is different. The differences and why I enjoy tubes amps in particular are the midrange and tonality; in my opinion get as close to what I hear live. The HD800 does really well with tubes amplifiers in general. Now there are also excellent solid state amps that can  deliver with the hd800 the GSX MK11 and the Violectric V281 come to mind an do a terrific job as well. The Hugo is another great amp mysteriously dynamic and one my go to systems on the road or when I feel like sitting outside or in another room.




Hi Frank. I'm more than familiar with the general sound traits of these amps as I've owned them for many years however I've never noticed such an obvious difference with any of my previous headphones. I'm interested in what the technical reason is for this with the HD800's. 

As the GS-X is effectively just two of my GS-1's running in balanced mode, I'm not convinced the overall sound signature would be much different.


----------



## koiloco

fzman said:


> there are a number of reasons for this, none of which involve the cable making the headphones actually louder.  the cable could alter the 'flavor' of the output such that it was more satisfying at lower volume, or more annoying at higher volumes.  of course if you do not believe there are any audible differences in cables, no mater what, then.........   never mind


 

 "flavor"... I like that.


----------



## fzman

koiloco said:


> "flavor"... I like that.


 
  
 I thought it was a good way to avoid making any specific technical claim, but still refer to a possible percetpual data point


----------



## koiloco

fzman said:


> I thought it was a good way to avoid making any specific technical claim, but still refer to a possible percetpual data point


 

 Your answer was very good, especially from a person who sells cables.  I appreciate it.
 Just the wording in the original post got me curious ...."juiced the HD800......2 notches down....".  I thought somehow the cable supplied more current to the HP or something.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

koiloco said:


> Your answer was very good, especially from a person who sells cables.  I appreciate it.
> Just the wording in the original post got me curious ...."juiced the HD800......2 notches down....".  I thought somehow the cable supplied more current to the HP or something.




I was there when Matttcg switched Rumny's stock cable for the Draug 2. The Draug 2 had the same affect on my HE560's, resulting in turning the volume down, though "3 notches" in my case. Clarity increased dramatically, while the noise floor was lowered significantly resulting in the perception of increased volume.


----------



## koiloco

wildcatsare1 said:


> I was there when Matttcg switched Rumny's stock cable for the Draug 2. The Draug 2 had the same affect on my HE560's, resulting in turning the volume down, though "3 notches" in my case. Clarity increased dramatically, while the noise floor was lowered significantly resulting in the perception of increased volume.


 

  That is indeed a miracle.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

koiloco said:


> That is indeed a miracle.




And I hadn't even gotten to the good part!


----------



## fzman

koiloco said:


> Your answer was very good, especially from a person who sells cables.  I appreciate it.
> Just the wording in the original post got me curious ...."juiced the HD800......2 notches down....".  I thought somehow the cable supplied more current to the HP or something.


 
 what I thought was interesting was that his comment could have been interpreted such that the cable made them unbearable unless he turned down the volume -- and yes, the company I work for sells cables, with a 30 day money back guarantee, unless a custom length or termination is involved - so we let people decide for themselves.  
  
 I was also reacting to the person who mentioned that they were an engineer-- George Cardas is an engineer as well, and not the kind that says 'choo choo' while he workd


----------



## Justin_Time

frank i said:


> The sound of tube amps usually is different. The differences and why I enjoy tubes amps in particular are the midrange and tonality; in my opinion get as close to what I hear live. The HD800 does really well with tubes amplifiers in general. Now there are also excellent solid state amps that can  deliver with the hd800 the GSX MK11 and the Violectric V281 come to mind an do a terrific job as well. The Hugo is another great amp mysteriously dynamic and one my go to systems on the road or when I feel like sitting outside or in another room.


 
 I found that the Bakoon HPA-21 is also an outstanding SS amp for the HD800.  
  
 The slight warmth in the midrange will keep the HD800 from ever sounding  analytical or sterile.  The slight bass ripeness also complement the HD800 tendency toward taut bass perfectly. And finally, the vivid details from the Bakoon/HD800 are something to die for.


----------



## MacedonianHero

zhenya said:


> Hi Frank. I'm more than familiar with the general sound traits of these amps as I've owned them for many years however I've never noticed such an obvious difference with any of my previous headphones. I'm interested in what the technical reason is for this with the HD800's.
> 
> As the GS-X is effectively just two of my GS-1's running in balanced mode, I'm not convinced the overall sound signature would be much different.


 
 I've owned both and the new GS-X Mk2 is totally worth the upgrade IMO. The GS-1 is still one heck of an amp and if was still being offered, it would be one of my top recommendations for the $1k ish price range.


----------



## Frank I

Nice to hear. I still have not heard that amplifier. I am also sure there are other amps do well with them as well. I have not heard them all for sure.


----------



## RUMAY408

canadian411 said:


> So u compared the SE cable vs balanced cable?


 

 I compared the SE stock HD800 cables and the balanced Draug 2 cables.  No other cables to compare with.  
 The audio experience is subjective.  
 Turning down the volume on the amp 2 notches on the Meier Classic is objective.


----------



## koiloco

rumay408 said:


> I compared the SE stock HD800 cables and the balanced Draug 2 cables.  No other cables to compare with.
> The audio experience is subjective.
> Turning down the volume on the amp 2 notches on the Meier Classic is objective.


 
 Now, I see the problem.  SE vs balanced connection, of course, you would have to turn down the volume.
 Personally, I am surprised that it was only 2 notches.  If volume matched and the balanced connection results in superior SQ, it's the amp design that enforces this behavior.
 In the case of my Woo WA22, SE vs balanced on the output makes no difference but on the input side, huge impact.


----------



## Mcberto

Anyone here got any recommendations for a less than $1000 DAC that pairs well with the HD 800?
  
 Using the Schii Vali and Valhalla 2 as the amps.


----------



## No_One411

mcberto said:


> Anyone here got any recommendations for a less than $1000 DAC that pairs well with the HD 800?
> 
> Using the Schii Vali and Valhalla 2 as the amps.


 
 You could always go crazy with Schiit and use the Modi + Wyrd....
  
 Save you quite a bit of money for something that sounds really good.


----------



## navigavi

mcberto said:


> Anyone here got any recommendations for a less than $1000 DAC that pairs well with the HD 800?
> 
> Using the Schii Vali and Valhalla 2 as the amps.


 
  
 Violectric V800, but I think it's just a little bit more than $1000. I bought one in euro's.


----------



## Zoom25

mcberto said:


> Anyone here got any recommendations for a less than $1000 DAC that pairs well with the HD 800?
> 
> Using the Schii Vali and Valhalla 2 as the amps.


 
 http://dangerousmusic.com/products/source


----------



## BleaK

mcberto said:


> Anyone here got any recommendations for a less than $1000 DAC that pairs well with the HD 800?
> 
> Using the Schii Vali and Valhalla 2 as the amps.


 
  
 Check out the Matrix X-sabre. There's a lot of favorable reviews out there, and I personally love the pairing with HD800.


----------



## zhenya

macedonianhero said:


> I've owned both and the new GS-X Mk2 is totally worth the upgrade IMO. The GS-1 is still one heck of an amp and if was still being offered, it would be one of my top recommendations for the $1k ish price range.




I appreciate your input, but again, the general sound signature has to be the same - they literally use the same amplifier board - balanced merely uses 4 as opposed to 2 and drives the two channels independently. If you run the GS-X single-ended, the output is exactly the same as the GS-1. The GS-X does offer a unity gain setting, but that's really just because of the extra power available from running balanced. The HD-800 is nowhere near the limits of the GS-1, so I'm not sure how big a difference more power can make. I'm sure that separating the channels has some effect, but I'd expect its at the level of diminishing returns. I also wouldn't expect balanced vs. single ended to change the general flavor of the amp the way that switching to my Woo does which is where we started from. 

Now that's not to say I don't lust after the GS-X.


----------



## Canadian411

rumay408 said:


> I compared the SE stock HD800 cables and the balanced Draug 2 cables.  No other cables to compare with.
> The audio experience is subjective.
> Turning down the volume on the amp 2 notches on the Meier Classic is objective.



 


So basically your test is orange vs apple,. Of course you will hear better and will be louder.
The Draug 2 cable is not the reason of the improvement.

I can make you cheap $20 balanced cable out of mogami and will sound as good as Draug 2 cables.


----------



## bargyu

Just a comment for those who are looking for the best dac/amp combination for the HD800. I first fell in love with a small, but powerful tube amplifier and Arcam's irDAC. The latter got good reviews, so was able to sell it quickly and then I bought another mid-range gear John Kenny's Ciunas DAC. Its a small one, but transparent and more space.
  
 Finally I opted to try the HDVD-800, at least this is what is made to pair with the HD-800, right?
  
 Well, first experience is negative, flat, dull sounds without creating any feelings about music except it sounded powerful enough to create bass and highs beside the usual strong point of a tube amp. Then I paired it with the JK Ciunas and that's a difference. Very precise sound, maybe too precise first, but after some hours or days I got used to it and the Ciunas dac's transparency and openness is really shining here. A well balanced, highly-detailed sound with a lot of space, where you can hear the position of the singer etc.
  
 Next I am trying some superdacs, like Audio-GD Master 7 and maybe some others and will see what kind of difference it can make.
  
 Best for all HD-800 lovers!
  
 Bargyu


----------



## preproman

Ha ha pretty good first post.  I agree 100% about the Ciunas DAC, it's great for that price range.  Only 1 input though - but still very good.  Yes, the Master 7 would be a few steps up.


----------



## bargyu

Thanks, may I ask about your experience with this Alpha USB thing? (As player software for me best is Mqn on Win Server 2012R2, have you compared it?) Tks.


----------



## preproman

bargyu said:


> Thanks, may I ask about your experience with this Alpha USB thing? (As player software for me best is Mqn on Win Server 2012R2, have you compared it?) Tks.


 

 I'll PM you..


----------



## koiloco

zhenya said:


> I appreciate your input, but again, the general sound signature has to be the same - they literally use the same amplifier board - balanced merely uses 4 as opposed to 2 and drives the two channels independently. If you run the GS-X single-ended, the output is exactly the same as the GS-1. The GS-X does offer a unity gain setting, but that's really just because of the extra power available from running balanced. The HD-800 is nowhere near the limits of the GS-1, so I'm not sure how big a difference more power can make. I'm sure that separating the channels has some effect, but I'd expect its at the level of diminishing returns. I also wouldn't expect balanced vs. single ended to change the general flavor of the amp the way that switching to my Woo does which is where we started from.
> 
> Now that's not to say I don't lust after the GS-X.


 

 +1


----------



## Armaegis

zilch0md said:


> It's always fun to see someone really enjoying their gear!
> 
> Serious question, though:  What will be missing, if I purchase only one HA-200, instead of using two as monoblocks?  My admittedly non-existent experience with such configurations leaves me thinking that the only sonic benefits would be those that come with having twice the power and truly balanced operation, instead of a common ground going to each transducer.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Mike, the best reason to get the dual monos is because you'll go crazy wondering "what if" when you only have one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 To best illustrate how silly subjective this hobby is, despite being an HE-6 fan I felt that the HA-200's actually matched better with the HD800. On the other hand, in Project86's review he felt that the HE-6 benefitted more from the extra power.
  
 I do think the HD800 sounds better from the monoblocks than from a single amp, but you can't discount the fact that it also doubles the output impedance which will give the HD800 a bit more meat to the midbass (not a bad thing in my opinion).
  
 I think whoever wrote the power specs may have been on crack (no pun intended). All I know is that I can run sine waves at max without clipping. Considering that I usually have my dac between 50-75% with the HE-6, I'm not concerned about topping out. With the HD800, I was running much much lower.


----------



## zilch0md

armaegis said:


> *Mike, the best reason to get the dual monos is because you'll go crazy wondering "what if" when you only have one*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh no!  Now my brain is tainted with that thought!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 LOL
  
 But I hear you - it will require a lot of self-control to stick with using a single HA-200. 
  
 Meanwhile, let me run this by you...
  
 I've had the Metrum Octave MkII for about a week now, and having written the designer, Cees Ruijtenberg, to report how thrilled I am, using it with the OPPO HA-1 and HD800, especially for how his NOS creation has taken some of the edge off of the HD800 treble, while warming up the mids and energizing the bass a little, he has written that I could enjoy an even less fatiguing HD800 experience if I were to use a zero- or low-feedback amp.
  
 The NuForce HA-200 page makes some references to its low-feedback design, so I suppose it qualifies, but let me ask...
  

Can you say that the HA-200, in and of itself, independent of your choice of DACs, makes the HD800 less "brittle" and fatiguing?  
Does the HA-200 "darken" the treble at all (desirable, as the Octave MkII doesn't darken the HD800 treble enough for my tastes)?
Does the HA-200 bring up the bass energy at all?
  
 In short, I'm trying to push the HD800 in the direction of having the FR and fullness of my LCD-2 - without diminishing any of its strengths like resolution and soundstage - all the while avoiding tube amps.
  
 Right now, with the Octave MKII > HA-1 > HD800, it's still too bright and thin and also has insufficient energy in the bass, even though the Octave MklI has done wonders compared to the HA-1's ESS9018 DAC.
  
 I basically want to tilt the entire FR up at the bass end and down at the treble end while thickening the mids a little - all without using EQ.
  
 Impossible, right?  Well, I might be satisfied with getting there only partially.  The V200 has been on my horizon, but the way everyone is praising the NuForce HA-200, I'm liking its price all the more.
  
 Thanks!
  
 Mike


----------



## verber

zhenya said:


> I appreciate your input, but again, the general sound signature has to be the same - they literally use the same amplifier board - balanced merely uses 4 as opposed to 2 and drives the two channels independently. If you run the GS-X single-ended, the output is exactly the same as the GS-1. The GS-X does offer a unity gain setting, but that's really just because of the extra power available from running balanced. The HD-800 is nowhere near the limits of the GS-1, so I'm not sure how big a difference more power can make. I'm sure that separating the channels has some effect, but I'd expect its at the level of diminishing returns. I also wouldn't expect balanced vs. single ended to change the general flavor of the amp the way that switching to my Woo does which is where we started from.
> 
> Now that's not to say I don't lust after the GS-X.


 
  
 MacedonianHero said that  the *GS-X mk2* was worth the upgrade. The difference between the GS-1 and GS-X mk2  not just running balanced, but the boards were updated to provide more power / voltage swing, and there is obviously an upgraded power supply.  While the tonal balance between the GS-1 and the GS-X mk2 is similar, the GS-X mk2 is a real upgrade. I had both in my house for a couple of months trying to convince myself I could be happy with the GS-1.  I would say the GS-1 is like looking through a clear glass window (which is pretty darn good) and the GS-X mk2 is like there is nothing between me and the music.  Of the amplifiers I have heard, nothing other than a few of EC tube amps have made the HD800s sound this good.
  
 My life has changed in the last year.  I am using speakers mostly, headphones rarely.  I think about selling my GS-X mk2 (I get money and the amp gets used with the regularity is deserves), but each time I say to myself "I am going to sell it" I take an hour or so to A/B the GS-X mk2 against what I would use once it's gone and I find myself thinking "Ummm... I just don't think I can let go of the GS-X, I enjoy it too much, even if it isn't everyday".
  
 Regarding the earlier comment about the Hugo. The Hugo is the best portable system I have heard when it comes to driving the HD800, and it's equal to several desktop systems I have listened to, but as I wrote earlier, the amplifier in it doesn't compare to the GS-X mk2 (or other top amplifiers) drive from a high quality DAC.
  
 --Mark


----------



## zhenya

verber said:


> MacedonianHero said that  the *GS-X mk2* was worth the upgrade. The difference between the GS-1 and GS-X mk2  not just running balanced, but the boards were updated to provide more power / voltage swing, and there is obviously an upgraded power supply.  While the tonal balance between the GS-1 and the GS-X mk2 is similar, the GS-X mk2 is a real upgrade. I had both in my house for a couple of months trying to convince myself I could be happy with the GS-1.  I would say the GS-1 is like looking through a clear glass window (which is pretty darn good) and the GS-X mk2 is like there is nothing between me and the music.  Of the amplifiers I have heard, nothing other than a few of EC tube amps have made the HD800s sound this good.
> 
> My life has changed in the last year.  I am using speakers mostly, headphones rarely.  I think about selling my GS-X mk2 (I get money and the amp gets used with the regularity is deserves), but each time I say to myself "I am going to sell it" I take an hour or so to A/B the GS-X mk2 against what I would use once it's gone and I find myself thinking "Ummm... I just don't think I can let go of the GS-X, I enjoy it too much, even if it isn't everyday".
> 
> ...




My GS-1 has been updated to the boards used in the GS-X mkII via the genius of Justin's design. I'm sure it's an improvement, but I'm going to have a really hard time believing it changes the underlying flavor of the amp which is all that I've said.

I should also say that your description matches my own feelings about the GS-1. That makes it fantastic for well recorded music, and especially classical, jazz, live recordings, etc. Paired with the HD800 nothing has gotten me closer to the music. Still - and this is where I started from, I have a LOT of music that is great, but honestly not recorded all that well, which in this combination is laid completely bare. This is where substituting the Woo sometimes finds a bit more enjoyment in the music. This isn't a criticism of the GS-1, it's the reality of having a combination that gets that close to the recording.


----------



## MattTCG

Mark...keep me on your short list should you decide to sell. That's a fine amp for sure...


----------



## oculus

Just giving you a heads up anything by Concha buika sounds sublime on the HD800.


----------



## RUMAY408

sorrodje said:


> There's some misunderstanding here.  the Meier Classic amp haven't any balanced output. As far as I know there's neither XLR output . so How the balanced cable is used on the Classic ?
> 
> Maybe I missed something.


 
 http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/classic.htm


----------



## koiloco

^  and ???
  
 Nvm...
  
 You meant this :
  
 ....Active balanced headphone ground offers most of the advantages of a true balanced headphone setup without the need of balanced connections. It can be used with any conventional dynamic headphone...
  
Interesting tech for sure.  Creating balanced ground signals without a balanced input!  This is like the opposite of my Woo WA22 and also very against what I know and understand about balanced signal.  I will hold judgement for not understanding enough about this technology in the amp.


----------



## RUMAY408

koiloco said:


> ^  and ???
> 
> Nvm...
> 
> ... 

 Sorry about the entire link, Jan's text is complex and I didn't want to try to quote it or summarize.
  
  
 At the last meet I was at I was really impressed with the Valhalla 2, very smooth and warm with the HD800.  I believe it was paired with a Bifrost DAC.


----------



## MacedonianHero

zhenya said:


> I appreciate your input, but again, the general sound signature has to be the same - they literally use the same amplifier board - balanced merely uses 4 as opposed to 2 and drives the two channels independently. If you run the GS-X single-ended, the output is exactly the same as the GS-1. The GS-X does offer a unity gain setting, but that's really just because of the extra power available from running balanced. The HD-800 is nowhere near the limits of the GS-1, so I'm not sure how big a difference more power can make. I'm sure that separating the channels has some effect, but I'd expect its at the level of diminishing returns. I also wouldn't expect balanced vs. single ended to change the general flavor of the amp the way that switching to my Woo does which is where we started from.
> 
> Now that's not to say I don't lust after the GS-X.


 
 Just a reminder that the GS-X and GS-X Mk2 are not entirely the same. The GS-X Mk2 has about 5W output power (a bit more I think) and the GS-X is 2W and the sound is more refined on the former over the latter.


----------



## zilch0md

rumay408 said:


> Sorry about the entire link, Jan's text is complex and I didn't want to try to quote it or summarize.
> 
> 
> At the last meet I was at I was really impressed with the Valhalla 2, very smooth and warm with the HD800.  I believe it was paired with a Bifrost DAC.


 
  
 The warmth must have been coming from the Bifrost?


----------



## Armaegis

zilch0md said:


> Oh no!  Now my brain is tainted with that thought!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have not heard the Octave or HA-1. The other amp I had at the time when comparing the HD800 was the Yulong DA8 (also the A18 and A28 and Violectric V200, but those didn't get as much direct comparison time).
  
 Going from DA8 to HA-200s, there was definitely more bass energy. The treble energy I would say felt about the same, but since the bass end hits harder the overall tone is darker.
  
 You'll never get the HD800 to sound like the LCD2 though. That kind of alteration in sound... means your amp is faulty and/or doing something very wrong. You'll be wanting to mod the HD800 for that kind of change.


----------



## Chodi

zilch0md said:


> Oh no!  Now my brain is tainted with that thought!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Why would you go to the trouble and the expense of changing equipment to get the exact sound you describe when you could easily do it with eq for thousands of dollars less? Do you somehow think eq on your computer would produce less desirable results than buying equipment which has built in eq from the factory? Or do you just like the hunt and changing equipment cost be damned?


----------



## nephilim32

chodi said:


> Why would you go to the trouble and the expense of changing equipment to get the exact sound you describe when you could easily do it with eq for thousands of dollars less? Do you somehow think eq on your computer would produce less desirable results than buying equipment which has built in eq from the factory? Or do you just like the hunt and changing equipment cost be damned?




Oh god I wouldn't. EQ'ing it is. Lol.


----------



## Sorrodje

rumay408 said:


> http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/classic.htm


 
  
 Hi,
  
 I owned myself some Meier amps (Jazz and concerto) and read many times Jan's website.  Its balanced headphone ground system is dedicated to improve SQ and imitate the improvement of a full balanced system (mostly noise reduction) but not to provide a balanced ouput. There's no balanced mode in any Jan Meier amps as far I know. So what i don't understand is how you can use a balanced cable  with a SE output and moreover why can any cable can need to crank down the volume pot on the Classic given the fact that using a balanced cable won't transform the Classic into a balanced (and more powerful) amp.


----------



## nephilim32

armaegis said:


> I have not heard the Octave or HA-1. The other amp I had at the time when comparing the HD800 was the Yulong DA8 (also the A18 and A28 and Violectric V200, but those didn't get as much direct comparison time).
> 
> Going from DA8 to HA-200s, there was definitely more bass energy. The treble energy I would say felt about the same, but since the bass end hits harder the overall tone is darker.
> 
> You'll never get the HD800 to sound like the LCD2 though. That kind of alteration in sound... means your amp is faulty and/or doing something very wrong. You'll be wanting to mod the HD800 for that kind of change.




Right you are.


----------



## PleasantSounds

sorrodje said:


> Hi,
> 
> [..] There's no balanced mode in any Jan Meier amps as far I know. So what i don't understand is how you can use a balanced cable  with a SE output


  
 You could use a TRS to XLR adapter, and if I recall it has been stated that one actually has been used.
  


> and moreover why can any cable can need to crank down the volume pot on the Classic given the fact that using a balanced cable won't transform the Classic into a balanced (and more powerful) amp.


 
  
 Maybe it's a superconductor or a true "wire with gain"?


----------



## Sorrodje

Oh yes. TRS to XLR adaptator but it does not provide a balanced mode. So it can not have any effect on the volume or the sound.


----------



## PleasantSounds

sorrodje said:


> Oh yes. TRS to XLR adaptator but it does not provide a balanced mode. So it can not have any effect on the volume or the sound.


 
  
 That's almost correct 
 There may be subtle differences in conductivity between cables which could have some impact. I can hear that difference on two of the cables I have, but that's with sensitive 32 ohm headphones. I doubt I could detect a one or two ohm difference on a 300 ohm headphone.


----------



## Sorrodje

pleasantsounds said:


> That's almost correct
> There may be subtle differences in conductivity between cables which could have some impact. I can hear that difference on two of the cables I have, but that's with sensitive 32 ohm headphones. I doubt I could detect a one or two ohm difference on a 300 ohm headphone.


 
  
 That matches my own feelings indeed


----------



## PleasantSounds

I am still tempted to get the Norne Draug 2 cable though. It's not that expensive compared to other HD800 cables, and I really like the way it looks.


----------



## Sorrodje

Seems legit. I'm close to order one forza audioworks cable myself. Looks good and I want try my sonett in balanced mode.


----------



## zilch0md

zilch0md said:


> Oh no!  Now my brain is tainted with that thought!
> 
> LOL
> 
> ...







armaegis said:


> I have not heard the Octave or HA-1. The other amp I had at the time when comparing the HD800 was the Yulong DA8 (also the A18 and A28 and Violectric V200, but those didn't get as much direct comparison time).
> 
> Going from DA8 to HA-200s, there was definitely more bass energy. The treble energy I would say felt about the same, but since the bass end hits harder the overall tone is darker.
> 
> *You'll never get the HD800 to sound like the LCD2 though.* That kind of alteration in sound... means your amp is faulty and/or doing something very wrong. You'll be wanting to mod the HD800 for that kind of change.




Per my bolded text in the self-quote above, I never expected to get the HD800 to sound like the LCD-2, but I very much appreciate your insights regarding the HA-200's probability of moving the FR in that direction. 



> Can you say that the HA-200, in and of itself, independent of your choice of DACs, makes the HD800 less "brittle" and fatiguing?




This question has nothing to do with FR. It relates to the HA-200's web page on how it has a low-feedback design...



chodi said:


> Why would you go to the trouble and the expense of changing equipment to get the exact sound you describe when you could easily do it with eq for thousands of dollars less? *Do you somehow think eq on your computer would produce less desirable results than buying equipment which has built in eq from the factory? *Or do you just like the hunt and changing equipment cost be damned?






nephilim32 said:


> Oh god I wouldn't. EQ'ing it is. Lol.




I have never found a software/firmware EQ that can play a pure sine wave tone without *distorting* it.

Try downloading and playing one of the 30-second WAV files available at this site:

http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/tone/download/

Here are direct links to the 100Hz WAV and MP3 files - try enabling and disabling your EQ as it plays!

http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/tone/files/100Hz_44100Hz_16bit_30sec.wav

http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/tone/files/100Hz_44100Hz_16bit_30sec.mp3

Now ask yourself what the EQ is doing to your music. It won't as easy to detect when not listening to a sine wave, but how could there not be corruption? I can hear a smearing and even a homogenization of timbre when I use EQ. 

So yes, if I can find hardware that moves the FR even partially in the direction I want to go, I will eagerly sell the hardware that doesn't.

Mike


----------



## Priidik

pleasantsounds said:


> That's almost correct
> There may be subtle differences in conductivity between cables which could have some impact. I can hear that difference on two of the cables I have, but that's with sensitive 32 ohm headphones. I doubt I could detect a one or two ohm difference on a 300 ohm headphone.


 
 HD800 stock is pretty much excactly 1 ohm, and its a lot for what it is, so any 'bulkier' custom cable is probably way under that.


----------



## Priidik

> I have never found a software/firmware EQ that can play a pure sine wave tone without *distorting* it.
> 
> 
> Mike


 
 Do you find that JRiver's parametric distorts sound as well (besides linear freq distortion what it means to do)?
  
 Differences in softw eq-s are pretty noticeable in my experience. Some introduce artifacts, other have some digital hiss, some loose resolution, etc.
  
 Besides JR's an other eq that satisfied me was the OS X built in eq, that with HD800 and IEM-s. Somehow not so much with speakers.


----------



## zilch0md

Yes, But it's been a couple of years since I tried JRiver. I really appreciate your awareness of the "artifacts" EQ can cause. Do you use the JRiver EQ?

Thanks,

Mike


----------



## Somphon

chodi said:


> Why would you go to the trouble and the expense of changing equipment to get the exact sound you describe when you could easily do it with eq for thousands of dollars less? Do you somehow think eq on your computer would produce less desirable results than buying equipment which has built in eq from the factory? Or do you just like the hunt and changing equipment cost be damned?


 
 I haven't EQ anything since out of highschool. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







  
 Kidding aside, I find EQing from computer, DAP, or phone greatly deteriorate SQ.
 At the same time, I find EQing is not the same as sound signature coming from different equipment.


----------



## zilch0md




----------



## zilch0md

Worth sharing, I hope, for anyone who's curious as to why low-feedback amplifiers (i.e. Nuforce HA-200 and Metrum Aurix, among others), are recommended by Cees Ruijtenberg for reducing the brittleness of the HD800:

I found this to be an easy to understand comment to a less accessible article about amplifier feedback:



> Cookie Jar
> 
> Often an amplifier with more measurable distortion can sound better than one with less measurable distortion. The problem isn't with the hearing system but rather with the measuring technique.
> 
> ...




Source: http://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4418798/3/Negative-feedback-in-audio-amplifiers--Why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-too-much

That entire page, including all of the comments, is dense with knowledgable discussion.

Mike


----------



## zilch0md

This Nelson Pass article is even better:

https://passlabs.com/articles/audio-distortion-and-feedback


----------



## Armaegis

And digital EQs are basically feedback of some mathemagical sort. Take that for what you will.
  
 Zilch, clearly the only solution is to induce narrow band hearing loss. It'll be cheaper in the long run, and will be applicable to all future purchases!
  
  
  
  
  
or seriously, just mod the headphones


----------



## koiloco

chodi said:


> Why would you go to the trouble and the expense of changing equipment to get the exact sound you describe when you could easily do it with eq for thousands of dollars less? Do you somehow think eq on your computer would produce less desirable results than buying equipment which has built in eq from the factory? Or do you just like the hunt and changing equipment cost be damned?


 

 Finally, someone with great fiscal sense ...


----------



## rgs9200m

I'm using Jriver EQ for some subtle treble reduction (2 - 3 dB) on my HE560. I find treble EQ is much less offensive than bass EQ. The sound is ever so slightly degraded and less clear but
 it's nothing like analog tone controls, which I could never stand. Subjectively, the sound is still extremely resolving and musical even with very critical listening and A/B tests.
 I wish I could avoid this, but when you need to tame some shrill highs or upper mids, you really have no choice.


----------



## Chodi

zilch0md said:


> Per my bolded text in the self-quote above, I never expected to get the HD800 to sound like the LCD-2, but I very much appreciate your insights regarding the HA-200's probability of moving the FR in that direction.
> This question has nothing to do with FR. It relates to the HA-200's web page on how it has a low-feedback design...
> 
> I have never found a software/firmware EQ that can play a pure sine wave tone without *distorting* it.
> ...


 
 Here you go:
  
 http://www.terrywest.nl/equalizers.html
  
 If it's good enough for mastering then I think it is good enough. I sometimes use his CS12M. It is also free. Just saying it's that or a few thousand dollars in experiments.


----------



## zilch0md

armaegis said:


> And digital EQs are basically feedback of some mathemagical sort. Take that for what you will.
> 
> Zilch, clearly the only solution is to induce narrow band hearing loss. It'll be cheaper in the long run, and will be applicable to all future purchases!
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 LOL    Good one!  
  
 I tried the Anax 2.0 mod, then kept making changes until it evolved into something like the Mike 13.0 mod, which I thought was great when I first tried that iteration - thinking that I had "arrived."
  

  
 But over the course of about a week, I began to realize that there was an annoying "cupped-hands" sound in the low mids (depending on the track) and that the sound stage was reduced, although I hadn't detected either problem initially. 
  
 I restored the HD800 to its original state and now I'm burned out on the idea of any more experiments in that direction. I had spent the better part of an entire Sunday cutting and fitting mods.  
  
 My advice to anyone who tries a mod would be to not jump to any conclusions.  Do your thing, then give it a good long listen (a couple of days?) before you conclude all is OK. Then try again...
  
 Mike


----------



## zilch0md

chodi said:


> Here you go:
> 
> http://www.terrywest.nl/equalizers.html
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks Chodi,
  
 With your putting it that way, taking the time to test one of his EQs is irresistible.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Which one do you prefer?


----------



## Zoom25

EQ ing is very valuable given that the EQ (either software or hardware) is up for it. For example, I've seen how well the new Genelec 8200 series model responds to room calibration. Does wonders for the overall experience.


----------



## MickeyVee

Personally, I've tried to EQ and tried different variations with negative EQ working the best. In the end, I could hear distortion (even with a max of 2-3db EQ) so I gave up on it.  Enjoying the HD800 un-EQ'd but tailored to my taste with tubes (HW EQ?). YMMV.


----------



## Chodi

zilch0md said:


> Thanks Chodi,
> 
> With your putting it that way, taking the time to test one of his EQs is irresistible.
> 
> ...


 
 As I mentioned I sometimes use his CS12M VST works with foobar and Jriver. That one is more like a pro mixing console so you can do some interesting things with it or you can leave the extras in there alone and modify the basic frequency levels. Depends on your choice of music. As with any eq a modest change usually produces the best results. I have been around this so long I can tell from the mastering of the recording I happen to choose if it will help dial things in with the particular headphones I'm using at the time.


----------



## nephilim32

pleasantsounds said:


> I am still tempted to get the Norne Draug 2 cable though. It's not that expensive compared to other HD800 cables, and I really like the way it looks.






I feel ya. However, I've got my eye on the V2 Black Dragon from Moon audio. It's a nice looking cable in a straight forward sense.


----------



## nephilim32

chodi said:


> Here you go:
> 
> http://www.terrywest.nl/equalizers.html
> 
> If it's good enough for mastering then I think it is good enough. I sometimes use his CS12M. It is also free. Just saying it's that or a few thousand dollars in experiments.




Yeah. It's too frustrating. The Sens are too analytical and I can't EQ them for ****. However, with the wonderful amp and DAC I have I do not have too. 
I feel and see your point. I fiddled with the mediacollage software for tonal noises and getting around the 10k and lower there was impurities present. Horrible for long term listening. Tried negative EQ ing with it too. Hate it. 2-3 DB I can hear crap.


----------



## PleasantSounds

The Black Dragon is a bit more expensive and looks... just... like.. a cable ...
 Still it is probably more practical and robust than many others (including the Norne Draug 2).
 Let us know how it performs!


----------



## nephilim32

pleasantsounds said:


> The Black Dragon is a bit more expensive and looks... just... like.. a cable ...
> Still it is probably more practical and robust than many others (including the Norne Draug 2).
> Let us know how it performs!




If I go with this cable I swear it shall be done. Be happy to relay my thoughts and impressions on the v2. 
I tell you one thing that is for sure, I'm not spending $1000 + on an aftermarket cable. No way.


----------



## Justin_Time

nephilim32 said:


> If I go with this cable I swear it shall be done. Be happy to relay my thoughts and impressions on the v2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You may find some information on the cable for the HD800 in a post I wrote in the High-End Forum.  Here is an excerpt::
  
_*...CABLES*—From the seemingly endless combinations I tried, I found that, just like the case of the PS1000, pure silver and silver-coated copper wires did not work well with the HD800.  They reinforced both the positives and negatives:  the sound became lightning fast, with over-etched details.  The bass, while still deep, was overly taut which robbed a lot of impact from of the sound.  The HD800 voice was further tilted upward with reinforced sibilance and edginess. OCC (Ohno Continuous Casting) copper cables, especially the Copper Venom from Toxic Cables (OCC copper; 22 AWG rectangular wires; cryogenic treatment) with 4-pin XLR were a better match for the HD800.  With the appropriate amp, these cables help reduce the sibilance and stridency, adds a slight warmth to the midrange  while leaving the delicate details and huge soundstage largely unaffected...._
  
 I tried the flowing cables  for the HD800 with increasing order of success before I settled on the Copper Venom:
  
 Silver Poison cable and Silver Widow cable (Toxic Cables)
 Silver-coated UPC cables
 Silver-coated OCC copper cable
 Bulk Cardas (UPC) cable
 Bulk OCC copper cable
 Black Dragon V2 cable 
 Copper Venom cables (rectangular OCC copper wires with cryo treatment from Toxic Cables))
  
 If you need a cure for insomnia, I strongly recommend reading my entire post on matching headphones, amps and cables:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/729976/matching-headphones-cables-amplifiers-harder-than-it-should-be-very-long-post


----------



## nephilim32

justin_time said:


> You may find some information on the cable for the HD800 in a post I wrote in the High-End Forum.  Here is an excerpt::
> 
> _*[COLOR=006600]...CABLES[/COLOR]*—From the seemingly endless combinations I tried, I found that, just like the case of the PS1000, pure silver and silver-coated copper wires did not work well with the HD800.  They reinforced both the positives and negatives:  the sound became lightning fast, with over-etched details.  The bass, while still deep, was overly taut which robbed a lot of impact from of the sound.  The HD800 voice was further tilted upward with reinforced sibilance and edginess. OCC (Ohno Continuous Casting) copper cables, especially the Copper Venom from Toxic Cables (OCC copper; 22 AWG rectangular wires; cryogenic treatment) with 4-pin XLR were a better match for the HD800.  With the appropriate amp, these cables help reduce the sibilance and stridency, adds a slight warmth to the midrange  while leaving the delicate details and huge soundstage largely unaffected...._
> 
> ...




I am very grateful for your assistance and impressions. I have done everything I want at this point in my sound chain except replace my 800's stock cable. I am weary, but I will read your post for the help. I also have to face facts that it'll be expensive because I need a 13 to 15 foot cable length. Have my eye on this one from ALO AUDIO. 16 individual stage copper conductor cable. 8 silver and 8 copper with classic copper. Then again I've heard silver be an enemy to the treble and sibilance of the 800's make up. 



1262$ cause I need a 15 footer. Lol. 
Anyway. Thank you Justin. Tomorrow morning I'm gonna go through your post.


----------



## Maxvla

I use a solid core silver balanced cable with my HD800s. It works well and doesn't do anything to the treble as you suggest. I also didn't pay $1262 for it, rather less than 1/10th of that price.


----------



## nephilim32

mcberto said:


> Anyone here got any recommendations for a less than $1000 DAC that pairs well with the HD 800?
> 
> Using the Schii Vali and Valhalla 2 as the amps.




With all my heart I recommend the ARCAM irDAC. It performs as well as anything in the 660-770$ prince range. Actually I'd say it performs just as well as most 1500$ DACs. 
It is a big time winner. Goes great with the 800's indeed!!!


----------



## MickeyVee

I use the ADL iHP-35Hx cable.. silver plated OCC with a lot of other rhodium cryo-treated marketing techno-babble. Just sounds nice with no sibilance and with great bass.
 To be honest, I don't hear any change in sound when adding a simple Grado extension. No way I'd pay that kind of money for 13-15 feet.


----------



## frankrondaniel

I've been happy with my Black Dragon V2 cable - it appears to have successfully tamed the highs without adversely affecting anything else about the 800's sound.
  
@Justin_Time - what did you like better about the Copper Venoms compared to the Black Dragon?


----------



## Justin_Time

nephilim32 said:


> I am very grateful for your assistance and impressions. I have done everything I want at this point in my sound chain except replace my 800's stock cable. I am weary, but I will read your post for the help. I also have to face facts that it'll be expensive because I need a 13 to 15 foot cable length. Have my eye on this one from ALO AUDIO. 16 individual stage copper conductor cable. 8 silver and 8 copper with classic copper. Then again I've heard silver be an enemy to the treble and sibilance of the 800's make up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 With such a long lead, I suggest you either buy bulk OCC copper cable and terminate it yourself--I did for most of my trial cables--or get your OCC copper cable from an outfit like Charleston Cable which has a very reasonable price, at least ACL did when I purchased it from him on ebay.    I needed that extra warmth and smoothness in the mid-range and a touch more volume in the bass for more impact from the HD800 with the Copper Venom but you are 95% there with most OCC copper cables.  Save the money for the amp, which makes a bigger difference.
  
 My experience is that we do get used to the sound of the headphones with any cable after a while and find nothing wrong with it--which is great for the pocket book, When you switch cable, you immediately hear a difference, _but an immediate "improvement" may not necessarily be an improvement in the long run_.  I typically need long-term listening with each cable and a few switches to be able to tell which is the better match for the headphones.


----------



## PleasantSounds

nephilim32 said:


> If I go with this cable I swear it shall be done. Be happy to relay my thoughts and impressions on the v2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  I made most of the cables I use myself, with the exception of HD800. The headphone connectors are so small and finicky I don't feel confident soldering them. My first thought was to butcher the stock cable to convert it to balanced, but I also want to have a SE cable in a single piece.
 In the end I gave in and got the ZY Cable (probably Chinese) off ebay. It does the job, but is very stiff and unpleasant to touch (I guess you get what you pay for). So I'm considering something more human friendly, but it has to be wallet friendly too.


----------



## Justin_Time

frankrondaniel said:


> I've been happy with my Black Dragon V2 cable - it appears to have successfully tamed the highs without adversely affecting anything else about the 800's sound.
> 
> @Justin_Time - what did you like better about the Copper Venoms compared to the Black Dragon?


 
 More warmth in the midrange--the HD800 can use that--and more depth in the sound-stage. We are talking about small differences here.  As I said in another post recently:
  
_My experience is that we do get used to the sound of the headphones with any cable after a while and find nothing wrong with it--which is great for the pocket book, When you switch cable, you immediately hear a difference, but an immediate "improvement" may not necessarily be an improvement in the long run. So I typically need long-term listening with each cable and a few switches to be able to tell which is the better match for the headphones. _
  
 Trying so many cables will do some damage to your pocket book.  My trick:  I made adaptors that allow me to swap cables between different headphones.  Thus, the Silver Poison/Widow cables I tried and did not like with the HD800, I ended up using, very successfully I might add, with the LCD2 and LCD3.


----------



## Somphon

I will probably get beaten up for this, but I'm happy with my HD 800 with cardas clear eventhough i can't stand it with certain music. 
But it will not make me to try to modify it to change it to somethingi its not. I rather change headphones.

I find a lot of discussion in head-fi and other forum about how much HD800 owners love their hp but constantly trying change its sounds with mods or other equiptment, which i find quite strange. I don't see nearly this much discussion in this manner with other headphones. So why buy HD800 if you want to change it?

I may still try different cables and amps to find the sounds i like best and stick with it, as i found my sweet spot with my LCD-3, Hugo with USB isolator and Heimdall2. I would not think about changeing the sounds further but rather, what else can I change in my set up to bring out more from my HD800, if assuming it has more to deliver but other factors are limiting its full potentials and capabilities. Example, i change cables because i know my headphone has more to deliver, but stock cables were not living up to it, i change my amp becasue it was not complimenting my headphone sound signatures and details and sound stage (aka sub quality amp with higher quality headphones), I spend 20$ on USB isolator to get rid of ground noise for improved sq instead of spending 500$ on USB cables which didnt do much, etc. All to get more out of my headphone.

Certainly it would not be to change the sounds it was designed to make. Its like telling Madonna to sing in an opera with Andrea Bocelli. Just my 2 cents, IMO and all other disclaimers blah blah blah...


----------



## froger

Since no headphone is perfect, I don't see any wrong modding the HD800 or changing equipment to make HD800 more to our liking. As I found out myself, having multiple/other headphones don't solve the problem at all. We love HD800 for its details, soundstage, imaging and ability to keep scaling as you improve your gears. Changing to another headphone just because of a few things that HD800 doesn't do as well is just too much of a compromise. By the way, even Lady Gaga is doing jazz now


----------



## thune

The clarity of the HD800 is beguiling until the moments of involuntary acoustic reflex occur, apparently due to a treble peak. Hard to blame people for wanting to fix the problem rather than persist in a possibly endless and futile search.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

somphon said:


> I will probably get beaten up for this, but I'm happy with my HD 800 with cardas clear eventhough i can't stand it with certain music.
> But it will not make me to try to modify it to change it to somethingi its not. I rather change headphones.
> 
> I find a lot of discussion in head-fi and other forum about how much HD800 owners love their hp but constantly trying change its sounds with mods or other equiptment, which i find quite strange. I don't see nearly this much discussion in this manner with other headphones. So why buy HD800 if you want to change it?
> ...


Well it's about finding a good compromise to make it sound like itself while taking away it's "bad" qualities. Bad being in quotes because of subjectivity. 

People generally agree that overall across the whole treble region the HD800 is a bit bright, which also makes it seem more lean in the bass. So, the obvious solution is to equalize it or colour your equipment to give it more body and authority. Some people do go overboard in this quest to make the HD800 into a totally different sound signature though, probably because it images so well compared to the headphones with the tonal balance they like.


----------



## SP Wild

froger said:


> Since no headphone is perfect, I don't see any wrong modding the HD800 or changing equipment to make HD800 more to our liking. As I found out myself, having multiple/other headphones don't solve the problem at all. We love HD800 for its details, soundstage, imaging and ability to keep scaling as you improve your gears. Changing to another headphone just because of a few things that HD800 doesn't do as well is just too much of a compromise. By the way, even Lady Gaga is doing jazz now




No kidding. Too late to revive a failing career, failing ever since theb feud with Madonna...should know better than to come in the firing line of the queen of pop herself.

But is it me, or are the latest batch of hits drawing on from the history of recorded music itself? So much variety in the charts today.


----------



## whirlwind

mickeyvee said:


> Personally, I've tried to EQ and tried different variations with negative EQ working the best. In the end, I could hear distortion (even with a max of 2-3db EQ) so I gave up on it.  Enjoying the HD800 un-EQ'd but tailored to my taste with tubes (HW EQ?). YMMV.


 
 Negative EQ is basically what worked best for me also....mainly in the treble area not so much anything ever worked for me on the bass.
  
 After I got my new dac ...I have never EQ anything......I feel no urge to what so ever.


----------



## LugBug1

Yes, as has been said many times, if you are going to EQ:  then take away - don't add anything. There are some decent EQ's out there where you can pinpoint and area of annoyance and lower it. Nothing is going to eliminate some distortion when you are manually distorting frequencies but an EQ is the best option imo. I personally think it will be an impossible task to pinpoint a certain frequency annoyance when modding hp's without affecting them all.  I don't use EQ with the HD800 but I would advise anyone who does to limit it to 2-3 db lower on the affected area. Digital ointment rather than bandaging your headphones hahah.. Hahaha. HAHAHAH!! *cough*


----------



## whirlwind

lugbug1 said:


> Yes, as has been said many times, if you are going to EQ:  then take away - don't add anything. There are some decent EQ's out there where you can pinpoint and area of annoyance and lower it. Nothing is going to eliminate some distortion when you are manually distorting frequencies but an EQ is the best option imo. I personally think it will be an impossible task to pinpoint a certain frequency annoyance when modding hp's without affecting them all.  I don't use EQ with the HD800 but I would advise anyone who does to limit it to 2-3 db lower on the affected area. Digital ointment rather than bandaging your headphones hahah.. Hahaha. HAHAHAH!! *cough*


----------



## Currawong

Some of the damping mods out there are supposed to evenly increase the bass response a few dB. There are at least half-a-dozen threads now with them from 2011 and onwards. They also have the effect of tightening up the imaging to some degree.


----------



## BleaK

nephilim32 said:


> I feel ya. However, I've got my eye on the V2 Black Dragon from Moon audio. It's a nice looking cable in a straight forward sense.


 

 I am very happy with mine. I don't know how, but it seemed like the cable tamed the high and brought some more "omph" to the bass without sacrificing soundstage. It might all be placebo of course, I just wanted a nice and shorter cable than stock 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Happy with the effect nonetheless!


----------



## Somphon

lugbug1 said:


> Yes, as has been said many times, if you are going to EQ:  then take away - don't add anything. There are some decent EQ's out there where you can pinpoint and area of annoyance and lower it. Nothing is going to eliminate some distortion when you are manually distorting frequencies but an EQ is the best option imo. I personally think it will be an impossible task to pinpoint a certain frequency annoyance when modding hp's without affecting them all.  I don't use EQ with the HD800 but I would advise anyone who does to limit it to 2-3 db lower on the affected area. Digital ointment rather than bandaging your headphones hahah.. Hahaha. HAHAHAH!! *cough*


 
  
 That's why I will not venture in to modding my HD800 as it affects frequency across the board. It doesn't feel right to love 90% of the headphone, so I will improve the 10% with mod while compromising the 90% that I loved. Saying this, I'm all for finding a good cable and amp that satisfy your preference sounds or to get it to where I want it. (I dp admit, there is a side of me that want to mod it just for the sake of cutting crap up and taking things apart! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
  
 For EQ, there are some good software at pro level but there are no universal settings for every song. So, for me anyway, I like to sit back, relax and enjoy my music and not be bothered with technology. For me, a good music machine, is the one that disappeared when the play is pressed.
  
 Again, my 2 cent.


----------



## LugBug1

somphon said:


> I like to sit back, relax and enjoy my music and not be bothered with technology. For me, a good music machine, is the one that disappeared when the play is pressed.


 
 Well said.


----------



## rgs9200m

I may be repeating myself, but after a few good tries with others, I find the Sennheiser CH800S balanced cable to be the best, letting the HD800 be the HD800, and the highs that sometimes bothered me are somehow ameliorated.
 There is a bit more fullness, and the wince-factor (sometimes unconscious) is gone. (Maybe a better term was Fear Factor.)
 This cable "deals" with the highs while keeping the bass extremely solid and transparent.
 Sometimes (actually often) a cable that tames highs can make the bass a little slow, opaque, and even a little nauseating. (I'm very sensitive to loose bass.)
 I even like the stock cord, but not as much as the balanced one. I'm really liking my HD800 now. 
 This is with a few different amps.


----------



## pearljam50000

Has anyone compared the K712 to HD800? I've read the K712 "is a poor man's HD800" so i wonder how close they are...


----------



## frankrondaniel

bleak said:


> I am very happy with mine. I don't know how, but it seemed like the cable tamed the high and brought some more "omph" to the bass without sacrificing soundstage. It might all be placebo of course, I just wanted a nice and shorter cable than stock
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I've been happy with mine as well - same experience as you've expressed.  We must be sharing the same placebo!


----------



## holyindian

i am sure this question must have been asked over a hundred times on this forum and on this thread.. but again.. this thread is huge, and i did peek around, but guys, i hear a lot of noise over how people conduct intensive research on getting the right amp for this headphone, whats the tried and tested amp out there and *people in one voice can say is the best for this*.
 Could you give me two options for both cheap and expensive. I mean right now i want to get something thats below 300 dollars, but at a later stage probably in 6 months i want to get something thats the best for this price no bar.


----------



## spurxiii

So I've ordered these and the wait begins for them to arrive. I guess these cans are something all of us on this journey need to try in our lives.

With these I need to upgrade my DAC and amp and plan on getting an Audio Gd NFB1 and Audio GD NFB6. Any other suggestions on how to spend roughly $1k on an amp and DAC for the HD800?


----------



## Maxvla

pearljam50000 said:


> Has anyone compared the K712 to HD800? I've read the K712 "is a poor man's HD800" so i wonder how close they are...



Not very. The signature is different. Detail retrieval is nowhere close, and the soundstage is more L/R than deep forward as well as L/R. They also aren't all that comfortable.


----------



## Maxvla

holyindian said:


> i am sure this question must have been asked over a hundred times on this forum and on this thread.. but again.. this thread is huge, and i did peek around, but guys, i hear a lot of noise over how people conduct intensive research on getting the right amp for this headphone, whats the tried and tested amp out there and *people in one voice can say is the best for this*.
> Could you give me two options for both cheap and expensive. I mean right now i want to get something thats below 300 dollars, but at a later stage probably in 6 months i want to get something thats the best for this price no bar.



Schiit Vali $119
Eddie Current Leviathan $7000+

That should meet the criteria


----------



## Mcberto

holyindian said:


> i am sure this question must have been asked over a hundred times on this forum and on this thread.. but again.. this thread is huge, and i did peek around, but guys, i hear a lot of noise over how people conduct intensive research on getting the right amp for this headphone, whats the tried and tested amp out there and *people in one voice can say is the best for this*.
> Could you give me two options for both cheap and expensive. I mean right now i want to get something thats below 300 dollars, but at a later stage probably in 6 months i want to get something thats the best for this price no bar.


 
  
 I would say Schiit Valhalla 2 and Wyrd + Modi for you best bang for your buck under $700.
  
 The Schiit Vali is also great for the price. 
  
 For right now, on a $300 budget. Can't go wrong with Vali, Modi, and Wyrd for the price and performance.


----------



## holyindian

maxvla said:


> Schiit Vali $119
> Eddie Current Leviathan $7000+
> 
> That should meet the criteria


 
 Cool, thats good info.
 I am sorry i should've had added my low's and high's budget.
 The lowest/cheap is 400 dollars anything below that if is really sounding good helps. the highest is 1300
  
 I was reading about the V200 but does it actually require the v800 to work that well?
 How about the senn's very own HDVD800 (cannot do that now, maybe later if it works really well).
 Any other inputs guys. Buying this headphone itself did take me a lot of courage, now getting an amp thats equal or more the price is like total crucification for me.


----------



## Maxvla

I thought the V200/V800 stack sounded good and the V200 on its own was fine as well. I do think they are overpriced, though. To me they sounded like $500-600 components which are actually $1000+.


----------



## zilch0md

holyindian said:


> [snip]
> 
> *Buying this headphone itself did take me a lot of courage, now getting an amp thats equal or more the price is like total crucification for me. *


 
  
 Welcome, brother!  You've opened a can of caviar that will become addicting.  
  
 The HD800 is a bottomless pit that continues to reward the more you spend on improving the signal quality.  Like no other headphone, it will scale with your wallet.  My advice is to spend big early on (whatever that amount happens to be for your budget) so that you will spend less in the long run. In other words, skip the Vali, for example - as tempting as that might be. 
  
 I've been making improvements to my HD800 chain since I first got it last December - precisely because I'm a tight wad and don't want to lay out the big bucks to do this headphone justice.  I'm not there yet (will I ever be?), but with each improvement, I realize the HD800 has more to offer.
  
 If you're lucky, you'll have a high tolerance / preference for what the HD800 sounds like with inexpensive amps.  Whatever you do, don't go to any meets where people are using amps like the Cavali Liquid Glass or an Eddie Current design with the HD800.  It will haunt you.
  




  
 Mike


----------



## spurxiii

maxvla said:


> I thought the V200/V800 stack sounded good and the V200 on its own was fine as well. I do think they are overpriced, though. To me they sounded like $500-600 components which are actually $1000+.




If that was a recommendation for me I'm not sold with that last sentence of yours 

Seriously, I need DAC + amp recommendations for around $1k any help appreciated. If not I'm just going to go grab the Audio GD NFB1 and NFB6


----------



## MickeyVee

From what I've been reading, Bifrost Uber & Valhalla 2.  I had the Bifrost Uber and could have lived with it for a very long time but HeadFi upgraditius got to me. Do a search on Purrin's post on HD800 amps. The Valhalla rates up there.
 Quote:


spurxiii said:


> Seriously, I need DAC + amp recommendations for around $1k any help appreciated. If not I'm just going to go grab the Audio GD NFB1 and NFB6


----------



## spurxiii

mickeyvee said:


>


 
 Thanks!!!


----------



## zilch0md

@spurxiii 
  
 and 
  
@holyindian
  
 Quote:


mickeyvee said:


>





> From what I've been reading, Bifrost Uber & Valhalla 2.  I had the Bifrost Uber and could have lived with it for a very long time but HeadFi upgraditius got to me. Do a search on Purrin's post on HD800 amps. The Valhalla rates up there.


 
  
 I agree - from having had the Valhalla 2 and having read a lot about the Bifrost Uber, I'd say that's one of the best chains you could get for the HD800, keeping it under $1000, total.


----------



## screwdriver

ive also heard the valhalla 2 with the hd800 and it pairs very well IMO.


----------



## RingingEars

So I finally made up my mind on the new amp/dac for my HD800
 I bought the  Decware CSP3 and the Mousai MSD192 and also the Norne Vanquish cable...
 Hope it's a good combo


----------



## longbowbbs

ringingears said:


> So I finally made up my mind on the new amp/dac for my HD800
> I bought the  Decware CSP3 and the Mousai MSD192 and also the Norne Vanquish cable...
> Hope it's a good combo


 

 You will LOVE the CSP3!  Enjoy the new system!


----------



## RingingEars

Thanks longbow. I'm sure I will.


----------



## bearFNF

Good call on the CSP3.


----------



## fzman

somphon said:


> I will probably get beaten up for this, but I'm happy with my HD 800 with cardas clear eventhough i can't stand it with certain music.


 
  
 So, how would you say the Cardas Clear sounds compared to the Norost Heimdall, and what music do you hate with it- and did you mean the cable per se, or the 800s, or the combo.
  
 Sorry for so many questions, but inquiring minds want to know.


----------



## spurxiii

zilch0md said:


> I agree - from having had the Valhalla 2 and having read a lot about the Bifrost Uber, I'd say that's one of the best chains you could get for the HD800, keeping it under $1000, total.




Thanks again for the advice Mike. I'll read into it a but more and will seriously look at getting this


----------



## holyindian

zilch0md said:


> Welcome, brother!  You've opened a can of caviar that will become addicting.
> 
> The HD800 is a bottomless pit that continues to reward the more you spend on improving the signal quality.  Like no other headphone, it will scale with your wallet.  My advice is to spend big early on (whatever that amount happens to be for your budget) so that you will spend less in the long run. In other words, skip the Vali, for example - as tempting as that might be.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You got me scared. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I never imagined before getting into this realm that i am opening a whole new level of pandora's box. Thinking HD800 as be all end all of all the headphones ever. Senn'zhr wanted to create the best headphone ever a very though provokating idea, but.. why on earth make the whole system so complex to drive?
  
 However your suggestions are fantastic, on spending the buck right away, than getting something puny and later spend more money to get something better. I could spend 2000-2200 but not right away... in probably 4-5 monthsn (when i get my tax returns). but now just to get my music madness going with the hd800 i need something that does justice to this headphone with under a 1000 dollar budget, or even 500. You mentioned not to get the Valhalla 2? But most here swear by it for this price range. Is it that bad?
  
 Regarding cable.. do u really think its a good investment. I read that the senn's cable itself is good enough, and spending another 700 bucks for the cables makes no sense instead invest in the amp. True? isnt signal in binary 0's and 1's. Unlike the HDMI cables, u could spend a fortune, and get one from monoprice for 10 bucks, sound and picture quality remains the same.. isnt this the same logic with headphone cables... well they all have copper wire's in them... does this hold true?
  
  


maxvla said:


> I thought the V200/V800 stack sounded good and the V200 on its own was fine as well. I do think they are overpriced, though. To me they sounded like $500-600 components which are actually $1000+.


 
  
 Thanks for this genuine review. I'll stay away from these combo.
  
  


spurxiii said:


> If that was a recommendation for me I'm not sold with that last sentence of yours
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Can someone tell me a little more about this, i mean i will definately google this, but if someone can explain in laymans terms, it be great.. why does one need a DAC and an AMP togather? I guess thats why people are asking to use combo's. Why would you need a dac and an amp togather to run the headphone?
  


mickeyvee said:


>


 
  
  


zilch0md said:


> I agree - from having had the Valhalla 2 and having read a lot about the Bifrost Uber, I'd say that's one of the best chains you could get for the HD800, keeping it under $1000, total.


 
  
 So, valhalla 2 and Uber Bifrost is the best i can get that do justice to the HD800 for under 1000? 
 By the way, thanks all for taking my questions impatiently.
  
 Someone also mentioned *Schiit Asgard 2 any good**?*
  
 I'll braincraze u for a few more hours, till i get a general consensus on what i should get under 1000 for both dac/amp.
  
  
 P.S. Looks like today and tomorrow the thread is going to get bombarded with whats the best amp/dac for hd800 as more and more people will try to get their hands on the deal from buysonic.


----------



## spurxiii

holyindian said:


> You got me scared. :confused_face_2:  I never imagined before getting into this realm that i am opening a whole new level of pandora's box. Thinking HD800 as be all end all of all the headphones ever. Senn'zhr wanted to create the best headphone ever a very though provokating idea, but.. why on earth make the whole system so complex to drive?
> 
> However your suggestions are fantastic, on spending the buck right away, than getting something puny and later spend more money to get something better. I could spend 2000-2200 but not right away... in probably 4-5 monthsn (when i get my tax returns). but now just to get my music madness going with the hd800 i need something that does justice to this headphone with under a 1000 dollar budget, or even 500. You mentioned not to get the Valhalla 2? But most here swear by it for this price range. Is it that bad?
> 
> ...




My HD800s are coming and Iile you I'm looking to spend about $1k. Based in what little I've read and the recommendations so far sounds like the Valhalla 2 and Bitfrost with Uber will be a good match for the HD800. I'll read a bit more before I make up my mind


----------



## paradoxper

Holyindian, you shouldn't drop any big $ until you've arranged a way to try out different gears. There are plenty of people that are happy with the O2/ODAC, etc. Even taking the 'general consensus' into consideration - you may not like what's popular.. You haven't yet established any real preferences. So at this point, ignorance is bliss.


----------



## Rhamnetin

holyindian said:


> You got me scared.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 DAC will convert digital signal to audio that we can hear (analog).  The HD 800s need the additional power and everything else offered by an amplifier.
  
 Some people find the HD 800 to be too analytical when paired with a transparent/neutral amp and DAC.  These people will prefer to pair the HD 800 with a quality tube amp.  
  
 I auditioned the HD 800 with both a Headamp GS-X Mk2 which is a transparent solid state amp (Ayre Acoustics QB-9 DAC was used), and I also tried it with a Woo Audio WA22 (unsure of what DAC, might have been the Woo WDS-1).  I preferred the WA22 pairing.  Although both of these amps are out of your budget, it made me realize that I prefer the HD 800 with the additional warmth of tubes.  It makes them more inviting and more musical, and less sterile.  But this is just my preference and it will vary from person to person.
  
 Like paradoxper said, you will have to audition them for yourself, before spending big money.  But if you get something like the Valhalla 2, you can swap tubes to modify the sound more to your preference.


----------



## froger

Being able to scale infinitely is definitely a strength of HD800, but it will also mean bad news for our wallet. While there seems no limit how high HD800 can scale, all of us have a limit on our budget. However, it doesn't mean HD800 can't be enjoyed on a lower budget. As many have recommended, there are good and decently priced gears that can do justice to HD800. Don't worry too much about upgrading as there will be no stop to it. Just work within your budget and enjoy your HD800!


----------



## rgs9200m

I too always prefer the HD800 with tubes. I hear some raspiness in vocals on the 800, some roughness, that annoys me with solid state. Somehow, tubes add some welcome liquidity and continuousness.


----------



## MickeyVee

Upgrading the cable is probably the last thing you should look at.  Focus on the DAC and AMP first.  You'll go even more nuts trying to figure out the cable thing so I'd recommend leaving that out of the equation for now.
  
 You will get a ton of opinions but really, in the end you will figure out what's right for you. I've had 5 amps alone in the past year (Lyr, WA7, Vali and my current WA6 and Naim DAC-V1 both of which I will be keeping) and will probably pick up an HDVA-600 at 'tax time'. My insanity has to stop   You get the picture.
 As far as spending $1K now and then doing it all over again in 4 months with twice the budget, that's a tough choice.  Heck, you can get a Modi/Vali now for 1/4 of the price to hold you over, have a great little system and have $3K when you're ready.
 As usual, audition if you can.  
  
 Quote:


holyindian said:


> Regarding cable.. do u really think its a good investment.


----------



## koiloco

holyindian said:


> ...
> Regarding cable.. do u really think its a good investment. I read that the senn's cable itself is good enough, and spending another 700 bucks for the cables makes no sense instead invest in the amp. True? isnt signal in binary 0's and 1's. Unlike the HDMI cables, u could spend a fortune, and get one from monoprice for 10 bucks, sound and picture quality remains the same.. isnt this the same logic with headphone cables... well they all have copper wire's in them... does this hold true?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Focus on amp and DAC first.  Some people here will tell you upgraded cables make a big difference, even subjectively 20% improvement.  I am not a cable believer and never will be one but that's just cuz I don't hear the difference and don't believe in such phenomenon.  Yes, I have done quite a few blind tests with various cables I made myself and some purchased (returned of course).  Be honest to yourself but do try different cables out if you have the opportunity.  Who knows... you might hear something I don't after spending $$$.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Gluck and sorry for wallet.


----------



## Somphon

holyindian said:


> Regarding cable.. do u really think its a good investment. I read that the senn's cable itself is good enough, and spending another 700 bucks for the cables makes no sense instead invest in the amp. True? isnt signal in binary 0's and 1's. Unlike the HDMI cables, u could spend a fortune, and get one from monoprice for 10 bucks, sound and picture quality remains the same.. isnt this the same logic with headphone cables... well they all have copper wire's in them... does this hold true?


 
  
 Cable is a good investment after you settle your headphones and your amps - and if you can hear the difference. Try them all, don't worry about blind test or not, just try them. If you hear the difference, buy it. If you don't, then don't. Very simple.
 Exploring the possibilities is part of educating your hearing, expanding the depth of your knowledge about equipment and this crazy hobby (if you call it that). Don't make your purchase on what's being said here, but its a good guideline. More importantly, go out and demo everything you can get your hands on. Come back and share with us your opinion.
  
 Analog sounds move through cables, its impossible for all cables to deliver the same result as we all learned in high school that different material have different properties. If anyone worked in healthcare, they will know that there are certain sections in hospitals that require 'hospital grade' wiring , plug sockets etc  to delivery quality electricity to their sensitive equipments.
 So analog cables makes a difference as digital cable make a difference, although in long distance just as our internet speed is affected by degrading cables inside or outside our house.
  
 Of course I would not recommend diving in to cables if your equipment is not up to par, only if you feel there are more performance available in the headphones and amps - and the cables was holding it all back a bit. Then give it a go.


----------



## Currawong

I've been playing around with damping mods, and so far I've settled on a ring of stick-on felt on the metal ring around the driver and a triangular piece of non-slip matting on the cable housing in the cup with the original driver protectors inserted. 
  
 I think all of the recent opinions have some validity:
  
 The slight euphoric sound of some tube amps (eg: typical OTL designs) can be a good match with the HD-800s, though some didn't have the detail retrieval of the SS amps I've owned (nor the non-euphoric Studio Six). An example would be the old Audiovalve RKV MKII.
 High-end DAC and amp combinations will bring out the last bit of detail where it is desired. If detail retrieval is not a priority then finding an amp with good voltage swing is my suggestions. Poor amps result in the entire image seeming to come from more of a blob in the middle.
 The objectivist with money would buy a Hugo or an SS rig of DAC and amp from Audio-gd, Headamp, Bryson or whomever makes products with a nothing-but-the-facts presentation intent.
 The value option (ie: the objectivist with less money choice, noting I haven't tried the basic Schiit stack yet) would be a Centrance HiFi M8 with the balanced out either on sale or second-hand.
  
 IMO all of the above.


----------



## Somphon

fzman said:


> So, how would you say the Cardas Clear sounds compared to the Norost Heimdall, and what music do you hate with it- and did you mean the cable per se, or the 800s, or the combo.
> 
> Sorry for so many questions, but inquiring minds want to know.


 

 Somehow I missed ur message before. Anyway, I have Cardas Clear for HD800 and Heimdall2 for LCD-3f so I can't compare as I've not tried Heimdall2 on my HD800 (different connectors, but when I have time to demo it at my dealer, I will let you know).
  
 Music I can't stand on my HD800 are violin concertos and other low quality recording (not file quality). Violin sounds sweet on my LCD-3f and a bit more forgiving for lower quality recordings.


----------



## LugBug1

paradoxper said:


> Holyindian, you shouldn't drop any big $ until you've arranged a way to try out different gears. There are plenty of people that are happy with the O2/ODAC, etc. Even taking the 'general consensus' into consideration - you may not like what's popular.. You haven't yet established any real preferences. So at this point, ignorance is bliss.


 
 This is great advice folks. We all hear differently and have our own preferences. There is no reason at all why someone shouldn't prefer an O2 or lower end schitt stack for e.g over a $1000+ amp/dac if that is a sound that pleases you. Remember, no-one else is right when it comes to your ears! And as Currawong has just pointed out, sometimes the specs of an amp can be more important (depending on what one is after) than the finest tuning or transparency.  The HD800 are very transparent and will squeeze every last ounce of detail from your dac -and all of the popular dacs these days are good. I've never had a huge want to go higher than mid price for a dac - just to get that little bit more resolution. I don't feel that I am missing any information in the music.   
  


currawong said:


> I've been playing around with damping mods, and so far I've settled on a ring of stick-on felt on the metal ring around the driver and a triangular piece of non-slip matting on the cable housing in the cup with the original driver protectors inserted.
> 
> I think all of the recent opinions have some validity:
> 
> ...


 
 Ample voltage swing for 300 ohm hp's makes a lot of sense and should be a major factor in system matching with the HD800 ime. Especially for the dynamics and bringing out the great sub level bottom end that the Senn's have. This to me is more important than having 'even more' detail retrieval. The dynamics in music is more important than the finer details IMO. I'd rather hear/feel the rumble of the cello's and timpani in a Beethoven symphony over every single violin.


----------



## punit

rgs9200m said:


> I too always prefer the HD800 with tubes. I hear some raspiness in vocals on the 800, some roughness, that annoys me with solid state. Somehow, tubes add some welcome liquidity and continuousness.


 
 After going through Lyr, DV 336SE, Btlhd Crack, WA6, WA22, Glenn's OTL  I also thought the same...until my HD800 met Master 9.


----------



## zilch0md

punit said:


> After going through Lyr, DV 336SE, Btlhd Crack, WA6, WA22, Glenn's OTL  I also thought the same...*until my HD800 met Master 9*.




A good cure for the harsh and bright treble HD800s hear with most solid state amps, eh? I think it's the fact that it's single-ended and doesn't use negative feedback to suppress distortion. 

Audio-gd has a new single-ended solid state amp called the *C-2 Class A*, that's a little brother to the Master 9 - with the same ACSS technology, no feedback, yielding poor measurements but great sound - about the closest you can get to a low-feedback tube amp without using tubes.

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/C-2Class%20A/C2classAEN.htm

Their promo price us currently $450.

I haven't heard this amp yet - it just seems to have all the boxes checked to be a good amp for the HD800.


----------



## punit

zilch0md said:


> A good cure for the harsh and bright treble HD800s hear with most solid state amps, eh? I think it's *the fact that it's single-ended* and doesn't use negative feedback to suppress distortion.


 
 M9 is a * balanced* pure class A .


----------



## whirlwind

ringingears said:


> So I finally made up my mind on the new amp/dac for my HD800
> I bought the  Decware CSP3 and the Mousai MSD192 and also the Norne Vanquish cable...
> Hope it's a good combo


 
 Congrats, man.
  
 I almost went with this amp also.
  
 Finally decided to go with Glenns OTL....have to wait until after christmas though.
  
 Again, congrats....that will be a great system.


----------



## preproman

punit said:


> After going through Lyr, DV 336SE, Btlhd Crack, WA6, WA22, Glenn's OTL  *I also thought the same...until my HD800 met Master 9.*


 
  
 Makes sense.   My HD800 does sound good with the Master 10.  It has a more fuller sound than any other SS amp I've heard.  I have the 445 coming with a few different tubes to roll.  I'll see how the two compares.


----------



## kothganesh

preproman said:


> Makes sense.   My HD800 does sound good with the Master 10.  It has a more fuller sound than any other SS amp I've heard.  I have the 445 coming with a few different tubes to roll.  I'll see how the two compares.


 

 Enter the Ragnarok??


----------



## Sorrodje

paradoxper said:


> Holyindian, you shouldn't drop any big $ until you've arranged a way to try out different gears. There are plenty of people that are happy with the O2/ODAC, etc. Even taking the 'general consensus' into consideration - you may not like what's popular.. You haven't yet established any real preferences. So at this point, ignorance is bliss.


 
  
  


lugbug1 said:


> This is great advice folks. We all hear differently and have our own preferences. There is no reason at all why someone shouldn't prefer an O2 or lower end schitt stack for e.g over a $1000+ amp/dac if that is a sound that pleases you. Remember, no-one else is right when it comes to your ears!


 
  
  
 I agree so much with that


----------



## Currawong

The HD-800s were great with the Phoenix, so if the Master 9 is 5 or so years of improvements on that, then it doesn't surprise me that it is a good match.
  
 Damping update: The imaging is now so insanely precise after putting felt on the inner ring that listening is almost scary.


----------



## Sorrodje

zilch0md said:


> A good cure for the harsh and bright treble HD800s hear with most solid state amps, eh? I think it's the fact that it's single-ended and doesn't use negative feedback to suppress distortion.
> 
> Audio-gd has a new single-ended solid state amp called the *C-2 Class A*, that's a little brother to the Master 9 - with the same ACSS technology, no feedback, yielding poor measurements but great sound - about the closest you can get to a low-feedback tube amp without using tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 A friend of mine had this amp and sold it quickly. Results was not good with the HD800.


----------



## punit

currawong said:


> Damping update: The imaging is now so insanely precise after putting felt on the inner ring that listening is almost scary.


 
 Is it possible to post a picture please ?


----------



## Currawong

punit said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > Damping update: The imaging is now so insanely precise after putting felt on the inner ring that listening is almost scary.
> ...


 
  
 Basically the same thing arnaud ended up doing with his here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/468461/hd800-imaging-and-treble-why-and-how-it-can-be-improved-upon


----------



## MickeyVee

OK Currawong.. you got me on this one.. any pictures?
  
 Quote:


currawong said:


> Damping update: The imaging is now so insanely precise after putting felt on the inner ring that listening is almost scary.


----------



## fzman

somphon said:


> Somehow I missed ur message before. Anyway, I have Cardas Clear for HD800 and Heimdall2 for LCD-3f so I can't compare as I've not tried Heimdall2 on my HD800 (different connectors, but when I have time to demo it at my dealer, I will let you know).
> 
> Music I can't stand on my HD800 are violin concertos and other low quality recording (not file quality). Violin sounds sweet on my LCD-3f and a bit more forgiving for lower quality recordings.


 
  
 thanks for the response-- you didn't miss it, I just posted it yestderday evening.  I am listening to the Nordost with the 800s, which have the Tyl mod (at east the one demonstrated in his video), driven by an Icon Audio HP8 MKII amp.  I like the combo very much.


----------



## fzman

currawong said:


> The slight euphoric sound of some tube amps (eg: typical OTL designs) can be a good match with the HD-800s, though some didn't have the detail retrieval of the SS amps I've owned (nor the non-euphoric Studio Six).


 
  
 I think that gear can be euphonic without being euphoric, and vice versa, but maybe I'm just high...... or am I just candy-coating things....   I get so confused sometimes!


----------



## LargoCantabile

currawong said:


> Basically the same thing arnaud ended up doing with his here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/468461/hd800-imaging-and-treble-why-and-how-it-can-be-improved-upon


 
 I looked at the pix and it seems as if the entire outside of the headphone has been covered up from the outer metal ring over the white fine metal grid with tiny holes and the entire flat circular part with black mesh. Is this correct and u have used felt um the green material used to stick pictures up in classrooms or maybe similar to what covers snooker tables? Why not just use socks? or little bags with drawstrings?
 And this improves the sound stage and clarity? But isn't that effectively turning it into a closed headphone. I thought all the open space was to allow for for more vibration and resonance? I though that is why most IEMS using dynamic drivers put little vent holes in?
 I really couldn't make head or tail of Arnaud's CAD drawings. I didn't know which bit fitted where and what the little wings were for? Help?


----------



## zilch0md

punit said:


> M9 is a * balanced* pure class A .


 
  
 Thanks for highlighting this, punit - it would certainly distinguish the Master 9 from the C-2.
  


sorrodje said:


> A friend of mine had this amp [Audio-gd C-2 Class A] and sold it quickly. Results was not good with the HD800.


 
  
 Whoa...   I'm glad I had not yet "taken one for the team."  
  
 Thanks,
  
 Mike


----------



## holyindian

mickeyvee said:


>


 
  
  


rgs9200m said:


> I too always prefer the HD800 with tubes. I hear some raspiness in vocals on the 800, some roughness, that annoys me with solid state. Somehow, tubes add some welcome liquidity and continuousness.


 
  
 Thanks for that feedback, every single review i read elsewhere mentions  the same thing.
  


froger said:


> Being able to scale infinitely is definitely a strength of HD800, but it will also mean bad news for our wallet. While there seems no limit how high HD800 can scale, all of us have a limit on our budget. However, it doesn't mean HD800 can't be enjoyed on a lower budget. As many have recommended, there are good and decently priced gears that can do justice to HD800. Don't worry too much about upgrading as there will be no stop to it. Just work within your budget and enjoy your HD800!


 
  
 Thanks, i never knew that the HD800 has lots of potential to grow. I will keep this in mind.
  
  


rhamnetin said:


> DAC will convert digital signal to audio that we can hear (analog).  The HD 800s need the additional power and everything else offered by an amplifier.
> 
> Some people find the HD 800 to be too analytical when paired with a transparent/neutral amp and DAC.  These people will prefer to pair the HD 800 with a quality tube amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Where do you guys audition various amps? I've been to Axpona (audio expo) in chicago a couple of times, but havent seen hd800 at any of the booths.
  
  


paradoxper said:


> Holyindian, you shouldn't drop any big $ until you've arranged a way to try out different gears. There are plenty of people that are happy with the O2/ODAC, etc. Even taking the 'general consensus' into consideration - you may not like what's popular.. You haven't yet established any real preferences. So at this point, ignorance is bliss.


 
  
  
 I was reading a similar feedback on reddit, and someone quotes this.
 How much is this true?
  
_The Schiit Magni and Modi is like the O2 and ODAC. The O2 and ODAC proved that you don't need super expensive source and amplification to have measurably transparent sound. As long as the your amp and DAC provides enough power, has low noise, and has a flat frequency response it will not sound any different than more expensive gear. Some audio reviewers claim that they hear improvements with very expensive sources but in reality, it is just a placebo effect._

  

_I have personally done blind comparisons between a O2 ($100) and a Violectric V100 ($800) and struggled to discern a difference._

  


spurxiii said:


> My HD800s are coming and Iile you I'm looking to spend about $1k. Based in what little I've read and the recommendations so far sounds like the Valhalla 2 and Bitfrost with Uber will be a good match for the HD800. I'll read a bit more before I make up my mind


 
  
 So did you figure out what you are gonna get?


----------



## paradoxper

holyindian said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I am not at all an objectivist advocate and I'll say they're as much zealots as anybody else.
 I was just saying the O2/ODAC or Schiit mini's are rather affordable and I would start there,
 then look to audition other stuff - that is, before dropping any big $.
  
 This is why it's encouraged that you find a way to audition gears.
 Find out what you like/don't like(discover the differences of gear, or not) - settle on preferences.
 And more importantly hear for yourself rather than solely relying on anecdotes, etc.


----------



## longbowbbs

holyindian said:


> Where do you guys audition various amps? I've been to Axpona (audio expo) in chicago a couple of times, but havent seen hd800 at any of the booths.


 
 At the last Axpona they had a Headphone area for the first time. It was located on the main level. There were several booths, including the Sennheiser booth, that had HD800's to use with a variety of Amps and DAC's.


----------



## nephilim32

justin_time said:


> With such a long lead, I suggest you either buy bulk OCC copper cable and terminate it yourself--I did for most of my trial cables--or get your OCC copper cable from an outfit like Charleston Cable which has a very reasonable price, at least ACL did when I purchased it from him on ebay.    I needed that extra warmth and smoothness in the mid-range and a touch more volume in the bass for more impact from the HD800 with the Copper Venom but you are 95% there with most OCC copper cables.  Save the money for the amp, which makes a bigger difference.
> 
> My experience is that we do get used to the sound of the headphones with any cable after a while and find nothing wrong with it--which is great for the pocket book, When you switch cable, you immediately hear a difference, _but an immediate "improvement" may not necessarily be an improvement in the long run_.  I typically need long-term listening with each cable and a few switches to be able to tell which is the better match for the headphones.




I believe you. I really do. Some cables have a few unique characteristics but its very very minor in the overall soundstage. It's all about the chemistry of the cable itself. Some metal synergies and purities creat a stronger and more accurate signal pathway for the sound to travel from your sources to your ears. It's science baby and I know it works. My main goal is to only KEEP what makes the Sennheisers so great and its that wide dynamic airy soundstage. I want a cable that will completely eliminate triboelectric noise with just about any recording source. With the stock UPOCC 7N purity 8 stage crystalline conductor cable their is a bit of 'hiss' during quiet moments in the music with some recordings but NOT all recordings. For the record I will say that the 800 stock cable is not bad, and as MICKEY V mentioned the grado extension cable helps with the lead no problem. Also I am not gonna buy a 13-15 foot cable now. I would certainly ADD a grado to extend the line and it won't creat distortion like some myths suggest. I use grado and their is no problem or PRAT issues. Like you suggested though, a DIY solution would be in order cause 1000$+ for a headphone cable is really pushing it. I could do with a 6 foot with a grado attached to it. Really don't think that would be a problem or a timing/distortion complication. Anyhow. I'm STILL gonna read your post that cures insomnia. I really am interested in your testimonies/impressions. May help with my decision as well.


----------



## nephilim32

mickeyvee said:


> I use the ADL iHP-35Hx cable.. silver plated OCC with a lot of other rhodium cryo-treated marketing techno-babble. Just sounds nice with no sibilance and with great bass.
> To be honest, I don't hear any change in sound when adding a simple Grado extension. No way I'd pay that kind of money for 13-15 feet.




I really do agree with you. I have 2 grado extension cables myself. They are a real steal for the cash!! 
Also I find with a lot of these aftermarket cables you are mainly paying for the aesthetics and durability of the cable itself. It's a tricky thing...so many snakes to choose from.


----------



## nephilim32

bleak said:


> I am very happy with mine. I don't know how, but it seemed like the cable tamed the high and brought some more "omph" to the bass without sacrificing soundstage. It might all be placebo of course, I just wanted a nice and shorter cable than stock  Happy with the effect nonetheless!




That's great man. I am really glad to hear you've got something out of this cable. I like hearing impressions like this. Very exciting and positive. I also like the HUMAN EQUATION avatar. 
Prog on. I with ya there.


----------



## nephilim32

pleasantsounds said:


> I made most of the cables I use myself, with the exception of HD800. The headphone connectors are so small and finicky I don't feel confident soldering them. My first thought was to butcher the stock cable to convert it to balanced, but I also want to have a SE cable in a single piece.
> In the end I gave in and got the ZY Cable (probably Chinese) off ebay. It does the job, but is very stiff and unpleasant to touch (I guess you get what you pay for). So I'm considering something more human friendly, but it has to be wallet friendly too.




I solder terribly. Very unprofessional. I'm not a good DIY with cables. I can change toroidal transformers in amps ok but that's it. I must say again. With these aftermarket cables you costs are largely for aesthetics and durability. Sounds like you didn't luck out there, but who cares you got the SOUND quality you paid for.


----------



## Currawong

largocantabile said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > Basically the same thing arnaud ended up doing with his here:
> ...


 
  
 Whoa, not sure how you get the impression that the outside of the headphone is covered up. It is only the metal ring and the part of the frame where the cable enters inside of the cup that are covered to prevent reflections. See post #7 in that thread, though Jazz experimented with extra bits of felt.


----------



## Justin_Time

nephilim32 said:


> I really do agree with you. I have 2 grado extension cables myself. They are a real steal for the cash!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, just make sure you get just the snake, not the snake oil.


----------



## Rhamnetin

holyindian said:


> Where do you guys audition various amps? I've been to Axpona (audio expo) in chicago a couple of times, but havent seen hd800 at any of the booths.


 
  
 NY audio show for me.  Both Headamp and Woo Audio had the HD 800 on display.  Still, always check out local meets in your area.  Hopefully you'll come across the HD 800 one of these days.


----------



## holyindian

currawong said:


> Damping update: The imaging is now so insanely precise after putting felt on the inner ring that listening is almost scary.


 
  
 Thanks for this tip. I am gonna try this myself once my headphones arrive, i dont see any serious mod on this, that requires ripping of the existing felt etc.
 Found a video on youtube on how to do this.. does this look good?
  

  


longbowbbs said:


> At the last Axpona they had a Headphone area for the first time. It was located on the main level. There were several booths, including the Sennheiser booth, that had HD800's to use with a variety of Amps and DAC's.


 
  
 Aw shucks, i missed the axpona event this year. I never thought i'd buy something so expensive even if i had seen the booth. 
 Anyhow I will closely monitor the event next year.. and be there. Hope they have the booths again.


----------



## RUMAY408

currawong said:


> Whoa, not sure how you get the impression that the outside of the headphone is covered up. It is only the metal ring and the part of the frame where the cable enters inside of the cup that are covered to prevent reflections. See post #7 in that thread, though Jazz experimented with extra bits of felt.


 

 Does Sennheiser or anyone else at the major HP makers pay attention to the mods, posted on here on Head-Fi?
  
 My own personal experience on a much cheaper HP, the Fostex T10 is that mods make a difference, just not sure how comfortable I would be about a DIY on the HD800.


----------



## thune

My understanding is that HD800 mods mostly involve damping in the ear cup and are fully reversible (or can be done in a reversible manner.) Easy, cheap, and reversible in seconds. Why hesitate?


----------



## Somphon

thune said:


> My understanding is that HD800 mods mostly involve damping in the ear cup and are fully reversible (or can be done in a reversible manner.) Easy, cheap, and reversible in seconds. Why hesitate?


 

  The video shows adhesive is directly on the HD800 itself, so not sure if its reversible in seconds. Even if teared the mod out, how to clean the remaining adhesive?


----------



## screwdriver

ringingears said:


> So I finally made up my mind on the new amp/dac for my HD800
> I bought the  Decware CSP3 and the Mousai MSD192 and also the Norne Vanquish cable...
> Hope it's a good combo


 
 when i use the decware csp3 ( beeswax caps) the tubes i love using is the mullard gz37 as the rectifier , then i use the stock6n1p on both sides .
 now the front tube if i want to have more detail/treble  ill use tungsram 6922, but if i want it to be not very fatiguing  with better bass i use the ediswan but still with good detal  .


----------



## holyindian

hey guys, another quick question, while i am researching on the amp/dac.. will i be able to listen to the headphone off my Denon 4311CI A/V receiver, usually it can drive a 4 *ohm* speakers


----------



## longbowbbs

holyindian said:


> hey guys, another quick question, while i am researching on the amp/dac.. will i be able to listen to the headphone off my Denon 4311CI A/V receiver, usually it can drive a 4 *ohm* speakers


 

 The Denon AVR-4311ci works fine with the HD800's. It can drive them to ear bleeding levels. I am listening to the combo now using my Denon DVD-5900 as a source via Denon Link.


----------



## ogodei

longbowbbs said:


> The Denon AVR-4311ci works fine with the HD800's. It can drive them to ear bleeding levels. I am listening to the combo now using my Denon DVD-5900 as a source via Denon Link.


 
  
 Agreed, 4311 and HD800s is good.


----------



## gusGGG

Hi,
  
 I had a pair of HD800 months ago and I tried with different amps and I finally I bought a Leben CS300XS which I recapped (with Mundorf Silver Gold Oil) and retubed (with Genalex Gold Lion). In my opinion, is one of the best combination you can heard. The body and textures you get are amazing and extract all the bass impact that lacks with other amps.
  
 I enjoy them as well with a Icon Audio HP8 MKII SE also recapped (Jensen) and retubed (Full Music) and it was great, but not in the level of the Leben.
  
 Regards


----------



## holyindian

longbowbbs said:


> The Denon AVR-4311ci works fine with the HD800's. It can drive them to ear bleeding levels. I am listening to the combo now using my Denon DVD-5900 as a source via Denon Link.


 
  
 THanks, thats great news then. I can listen to the hp on the denon and will wait for a bit, replenish my piggy bank away from the eyes of my wife, and get a better combination of amp/dac probably the eddie current super 7? is that one of the best one out there for this hp?


----------



## pdrm360

pearljam50000 said:


> Has anyone compared the K712 to HD800? I've read the K712 "is a poor man's HD800" so i wonder how close they are...


 
  
 Except some parts of their frequency response graph they are not even close.


----------



## pdrm360

holyindian said:


> You got me scared.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I didn't like the Asgard 2 for the HD800 at all.


----------



## White Lotus

pearljam50000 said:


> Has anyone compared the K712 to HD800? I've read the K712 "is a poor man's HD800" so i wonder how close they are...


 
  
 If I had to label any headphone as the "poor mans HD800" -
  
 It would be the DT880.


----------



## wahsmoh

white lotus said:


> If I had to label any headphone as the "poor mans HD800" -
> 
> It would be the DT880.


 
 I had the same feeling when I first heard the HD800 coming from listening to the DT880. The main difference was the HD800's larger soundstage from the earcup depth and better imaging and mid-range. Otherwise they are both on the "bright" side of the spectrum and tend to aim towards a "drier" uncolored sound. For better or for worse..
  
 EDIT: on another note, the "best sounding" HD800 I've ever heard was the Anaxilus mod HD800 paired with a ridiculously expensive custom made tube amplifier (not that the price matters but this thing sounded like gold). If anyone could remember the name of the amp it was at the SoCal Head-Fi meet in March of this year.


----------



## pdrm360

white lotus said:


> If I had to label any headphone as the "poor mans HD800" -
> 
> It would be the DT880.


 
  
 That's a poor man's T1.


----------



## wahsmoh

pdrm360 said:


> That's a poor man's T1.


 
 I'd argue though that the HD650 and HD800 sound completely different. Which is why people turn towards the AKG K701 or DT880 when it comes to being the "poor man's" HD800.


----------



## Rhamnetin

wahsmoh said:


> I'd argue though that the HD650 and HD800 sound completely different. Which is why people turn towards the AKG K701 or DT880 when it comes to being the "poor man's" HD800.


 
  
 Yeah but I thought the DT 880 and T1 were very similar?  I honestly can't name a poor man's HD 800.


----------



## RingingEars

screwdriver said:


> when i use the decware csp3 ( beeswax caps) the tubes i love using is the mullard gz37 as the rectifier , then i use the stock6n1p on both sides .
> now the front tube if i want to have more detail/treble  ill use tungsram 6922, but if i want it to be not very fatiguing  with better bass i use the ediswan but still with good detal  .


 
 Good to hear. I'll have to keep the Mullard in mind. I was looking at the Telefunken GZ34...
 Man it's nice to get back into tubes again


----------



## wahsmoh

rhamnetin said:


> Yeah but I thought the DT 880 and T1 were very similar?  I honestly can't name a poor man's HD 800.


 
 Hmm I have heard some people say the T1 is like an improved DT880 in just about all regards. I have also heard the T1 was brighter than the DT880. There was some commotion before about T1's differing from each other in sound signature. I would like to think that Beyer has better quality control than that.


----------



## benjaminhuypham

The Bottlehead SEX with HD800? Any HD800 owner here owns them please gives me some suggestions.


----------



## Nudel

So... I've readed a lot of pages here guys. Got someone any imperssions with this headphones played them with dust cover mesh and without it?
 It's a bit strange to me but I think overall the sound coming out from this cans without the inside mesh is for me more delicate, smooth, less sibillant and slightly more detailed.
 Does not this action make any problem to the membrane itself? Is there any risk of playing them without this mesh?
 Cheers


----------



## Chodi

nudel said:


> So... I've readed a lot of pages here guys. Got someone any imperssions with this headphones played them with dust cover mesh and without it?
> It's a bit strange to me but I think overall the sound coming out from this cans without the inside mesh is for me more delicate, smooth, less sibillant and slightly more detailed.
> Does not this action make any problem to the membrane itself? Is there any risk of playing them without this mesh?
> Cheers


 
 That mesh is only there to keep dust and foreign objects from reaching the driver. A useful task. Up to you if you choose to go without.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote:


zilch0md said:


> I have _never_ found a software/firmware EQ that can play a pure sine wave tone without *distorting* it.
> 
> *Try downloading and playing one of the 30-second WAV files available at this site:*
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Mike,
  
 I am getting caught up on this thread...
  
 I just tested all of these tones in iZotope's Ozone 5 equalizer module exactly as you suggested, i.e. equalizing the frequency and turning bypass on and off. The output is absolutely distortion free to my ears. Mind you, it is an expensive equalizer but worth the money in my view.
  
 Further to that, I do sometimes find the HD800 bright right around the 6,000 hz mark due to the infamous treble spike. I received the graph of my HD800 from Sennheiser and the spike is clearly visible as below. So I do sometimes eq using Ozone 5 with excellent results. A lot of people are modding their HD800 to deal with the spike (Tyll's guide to it here). I may try that but I hate to mess with the HD800's wonderful soundstage. I find that this eq profile below (which is still a work in progress) tones down the treble glare centred on that spike but leaves the soundstage of the HD800 undisturbed. I only eq about 2db max. It is enough. (I am listening with the GS-X mk2, still single-ended.)


----------



## nephilim32

^ for the record sometimes lightening speed and accuracy can be exhausting for some listeners, but for me. 
I love everything about the HD 800's and I would never consider stifling their overall dynamics and soundstage with something like an anaxilus mod. This is just my hearing tastes but I've really grown to love the 800's bright and accurate sound. The treble edge I think sounds perfect and of course my sources bring the 800's fully to life. 

Eq'ing is not for me, but I can understand why others meticulously do it.


----------



## zilch0md

Hey Paul!
  
 I've posted that "test" in several threads, but you're the first person ever to do the leg work, and best of all, you're reporting good results using this EQ software - iZotope Ozone 5.
  
 Thanks very much for the recommendation.  If you're not hearing distortion when toggling the EQ in vs. out, that's good enough for me to want to try it, but at $249, I'm hesitant to even download the 10-day trial, for fear of wanting it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  And then there's my desire lately to get away from using my laptop as a transport - I would have to EQ all my files and save them for use in other devices like my FiiO X5, which I use as a "file server" for my desktop rig,
  
 This video is pretty compelling, though:  http://youtu.be/B-7vqNBKAuU
  
 I wish they would sell just the EQ portion of it...
  
 Thanks!
  
 Mike


----------



## rgs9200m

My latest 2 cents here: I find running the 800 balanced improves the soundstage.
 (By the way, my Beyer DT880s and 990s sit unused, virtually unused since new, since I didn't like them right out of the box. They made me nervous, overly ringing, hard, and punchy.
 The T1s were much better, more fleshed out. But eventually I sold the T1s since other flagships were better. I just never got around to selling the 880s and 990s.)


----------



## pearljam50000

Does the HD800 destroy any speaker costing 1500$ or less?
I'm talking about SQ only.


----------



## koiloco

pearljam50000 said:


> Does the HD800 destroy any speaker costing 1500$ or less?
> I'm talking about SQ only.


 
 kind of comparing apple to orange but IMO, you can get very decent active monitors at that price.


----------



## Jodet

pearljam50000 said:


> Does the HD800 destroy any speaker costing 1500$ or less?
> I'm talking about SQ only.


 
  
 If driven by a good amp,  'destroy' is over-stating it a bit.   But yeah.   
  
 Some of the best speakers < $1500
  
 1) KEF LS-50
 2) Peachtree D5
 3) Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2  
 4) Magnepan Super-MMG


----------



## pearljam50000

OK 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It's just that i have a budget of 1500$ and i have the GeekOut, so i can go with theHD800, or with a pair of near field monitors, and it's very hard to decide, because i had a pair of HD800 in the past, and loved their sound, on the other hand i also love the open sound of speakers.
 Of course the only thing that matters to me is the SQ.


----------



## Jodet

pearljam50000 said:


> OK
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Those Peachtree D5's are amazing for the money.   Call Wally at Underwood Hi-Fi.   Peachtree is fussy about MSRP, but maybe he can get you a bit of a deal.   But even at $999 they're a bargain. 
  
 I own HD800's and either have, or have had all the speakers I've listed.   I'm listening to my D5's right now.    Wonderful on rock, wonderful on classical.


----------



## koiloco

pearljam50000 said:


> OK
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry for your wallet but you got to get both!  HD800 and monitors are awesome in their own ways.


----------



## PleasantSounds

pearljam50000 said:


> OK
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's largely a matter pf preference. Just keep in mind that with the HD800 you may have to spend another $1500 or even more on an amp to get the most out of it.
 Personally I always chose my speaker setup (Yamaha HS8 + Presonus T10), which would fit well into your budget, over the headphone rig (HD800 + Violectric V281), which is actually more expensive.


----------



## RUMAY408

I'm one of the few posters on Audiokarma that preferred HP's over any similar priced speakers.  HP's are tolerated but not appreciated in most other audio forums.
  
 The HD800 is my favorite HP> Def Tech BP-8080ST


----------



## spurxiii

Not bad. Delivered from HK in 1.5 days


----------



## koiloco

spurxiii said:


> Not bad. Delivered from HK in 1.5 days


----------



## Currawong

nephilim32 said:


> ^ for the record sometimes lightening speed and accuracy can be exhausting for some listeners, but for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The mods don't change the headphone's character, just remove some of the vagueness in the stereo image. If anything, I feel the result is more Stax-like, with pinpoint imaging afterwards.


----------



## koiloco

currawong said:


> The mods don't change the headphone's character, just remove some of the vagueness in the stereo image. If anything, I feel the result is more Stax-like, with pinpoint imaging afterwards.


 
 I listened to one recently and not quite share your observation.  My HD800 is staying the way it is for now.


----------



## froger

currawong said:


> The mods don't change the headphone's character, just remove some of the vagueness in the stereo image. If anything, I feel the result is more Stax-like, with pinpoint imaging afterwards.


 
  
 I agree, the mods will make HD800 more grain-free, clearer and image better (quite Stax-like due to the smoothness and grain-free). I have tried different sizes in the foam, with/without felt and with/without dust cover and they all yield different results and sometimes worse than unmodded, so I can understand why someone may dislike modding HD800. If one is willing to experiment more, they may just find out how much HD800 can sound better with mod, rather than brushing it off after just hearing one particular mod.


----------



## Priidik

currawong said:


>


 
  
 What kind of material is this? It doesn't look like typical felt.
 I tryed thick felt (that which is meant for chair legs for floor protection), it made the sound just dull.


----------



## Somphon

froger said:


> I agree, the mods will make HD800 more grain-free, clearer and image better (quite Stax-like due to the smoothness and grain-free). I have tried different sizes in the foam, with/without felt and with/without dust cover and they all yield different results and sometimes worse than unmodded, so I can understand why someone may dislike modding HD800. If one is willing to experiment more, they may just find out how much HD800 can sound better with mod, rather than brushing it off after just hearing one particular mod.


 
  
 Sounding like Stax? Gotta give it try then.
 Sadly been looking around and can't find materials here in Bangkok. Anyone sell these mods online?


----------



## spurxiii

Do the HD800s need to burn in? It doesn't sound that bright to my ears so far, everything just sounds so natural and wider in soundstage than anything I've ever heard. Its like a very very clear and smooth sounding HD600 that has no treble roll-off.


----------



## lin0003

Mine had50 hours when I got it and there was no change at all afterwards.


----------



## spurxiii

lin0003 said:


> Mine had50 hours when I got it and there was no change at all afterwards.


 
 That's great to hear


----------



## Justin_Time

somphon said:


> Sounding like Stax? Gotta give it try then.
> Sadly been looking around and can't find materials here in Bangkok. Anyone sell these mods online?


 
 The most effective mod I have tried with very little if any negative impact on the sound was the Anaxilus mod just on the metal ring around the driver.
  
 Just search for the video here on how to do it with all the templates for cutting the foam and felt material.  I am sure you can find everything you need in a craft supply shop at Bangkok. 
  
 I found that stuffing the foam on the screen as shown in the picture impacted the sound negatively. Just focus on the ring around the driver (black felt).  And you can do a much better job than shown by just following the video instructions.
  
 The cost of the material will be less than a few dollars with enough material to modify several pairs of HD800s.  I can sell you one set of the mod kit for $5,000 as a punishment for not trying something this simple yourself.


----------



## Somphon

justin_time said:


> The most effective mod I have tried with very little if any negative impact on the sound was the Anaxilus mod just on the metal ring around the driver.
> 
> Just search for the video here on how to do it with all the templates for cutting the foam and felt material.  I am sure you can find everything you need in a craft supply shop at Bangkok.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 You did read what I wrote, right?  the part that says "*Sadly been looking around and can't find materials here in Bangkok*"....


----------



## nephilim32

currawong said:


> The mods don't change the headphone's character, just remove some of the vagueness in the stereo image. If anything, I feel the result is more Stax-like, with pinpoint imaging afterwards.




That is interesting and comforting of you to say/observe, but placing a cloth like material around the circumference of each ear cup has me so worried that the openness and airy soundstage may be compromised. Above all though, I'm really happy with how the 800's are performing in my sound chain. It's just so incredible and when I get home from work its the first thing I do....put on those lovely cans and escape into musical bliss. 

Actually, tell me something. Have you replaced the 800's stock cable? This is the only thing I've not done. I am very weary of doing so, but I am doing more research on the science behind cables.


----------



## Justin_Time

somphon said:


> You did read what I wrote, right?  the part that says "*Sadly been looking around and can't find materials here in Bangkok*"....



 


'Course I did read the whole thing. It is just very hard for me to believe that there is no foam, felt or sticky tapes in a large, modern city like Bangkok! But I take your word for it.

You can buy any of this material from Amazon.com, ebay or Alibaba for a few dollars but the shipping cost will be 5 to 10 times higher if you want it to be delivered within a reasonable amount of time.


----------



## Somphon

justin_time said:


> somphon said:
> 
> 
> > You did read what I wrote, right?  the part that says "*Sadly been looking around and can't find materials here in Bangkok*"....
> ...


 
  
  
 lol, I would be more than happy if you come over and try to find one so you can 'believe'.
 sticky pad, sure, but 2mm foam paper, 2mm felt paper.. no.
 I can go to the factory and have them custom made for me, but that would be industrial order as all I need is no more than A4 size.
 I can order online but as you say, the cost would be a lot more and just too much hassle.
 Anyway, I'm quite happy with what I bought, else I would buy other headphones!


----------



## Zoom25

Got a question about Colorware and it's paint process. Suppose you have a HD800 and it has those (paint?) chips that a lot of us here have, will the Colorware paint job cover up those chips and make it look like a brand new HD 800 that got Colorwared from stock?


----------



## paradoxper

zoom25 said:


> Got a question about Colorware and it's paint process. Suppose you have a HD800 and it has those (paint?) chips that a lot of us here have, will the Colorware paint job cover up those chips and make it look like a brand new HD 800 that got Colorwared from stock?


 
 They re-sand everything down. So yes, perfect finish.


----------



## Zoom25

paradoxper said:


> They re-sand everything down. So yes, perfect finish.


 

 Thanks.


----------



## fortitude

somphon said:


> lol, I would be more than happy if you come over and try to find one so you can 'believe'.
> sticky pad, sure, but 2mm foam paper, 2mm felt paper.. no.
> I can go to the factory and have them custom made for me, but that would be industrial order as all I need is no more than A4 size.
> I can order online but as you say, the cost would be a lot more and just too much hassle.
> Anyway, I'm quite happy with what I bought, else I would buy other headphones!


 
  
 I may have the left overs from when I did the mod to mine, if so I could just throw it into an envelope and mail it.


----------



## Somphon

fortitude said:


> I may have the left overs from when I did the mod to mine, if so I could just throw it into an envelope and mail it.


 
  
 Thanks, if you do, let me pay for shipping or something. I was just looking online and can't find one place that sell both felt and foam. Its like 90 cent per sheet but shipping will probably a lot more, and have to order from two different shops. Too much hassle for us folks from far away land.
  
 Listening to Mighty Sam McClain on my HD800 right now and wondering how the mod will make it better.


----------



## spurxiii

Wow. I just got these yesterday and I'm rediscovering my music again. So much detail is coming through that I haven't heard before. And this is just by trying it through the cheap speaker amp Topping TP60


----------



## zilch0md

^  Congratulations.   I'm really looking forward to your later impressions, downstream.


----------



## whirlwind

spurxiii said:


> Wow. I just got these yesterday and I'm rediscovering my music again. So much detail is coming through that I haven't heard before. And this is just by trying it through the cheap speaker amp Topping TP60


 
 Yeah, they are pretty good, huh?
  
 I have not miseed a day  of listening with mine, since i have bought them....a few months now.
  
 There are a few very good remasters that have given me quite a few "wow" moments.
  
 These cans make me smile  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Congrats on your purchase, can't wait to keep hearing your impressions as you move forward.


----------



## koiloco

spurxiii said:


> Wow. I just got these yesterday and I'm rediscovering my music again. So much detail is coming through that I haven't heard before. And this is just by trying it through the cheap speaker amp Topping TP60


 

 Ooooh,  you will be in for a treat when you upgrade your amp.  Topping TP60 is great for HPs like HE500 and other orthos but won't do HD800 justice
  
 To me,  HD800 = effortless details.
  
 Gratz!


----------



## Justin_Time

paradoxper said:


> They re-sand everything down. So yes, perfect finish.




Correct, up to a point. They do specify that your gear should be free of serious signs of wear. Actually for a while, they refused to re-paint used HP. They changed that policy later on.

They refused to repaint one of my HD800 because it had too many severe surface damages but did a great job removing a few dings I had on the other pair. Good as new. BTW, that new paint (automotive?) is a lot tougher than the stock paint. After two years, I haven't seen a single scratch on it!


----------



## pearljam50000

Once you listen to the HD800 you can't enjoy any other HP, it's a dangerous headphone...


----------



## spurxiii

pearljam50000 said:


> Once you listen to the HD800 you can't enjoy any other HP, it's a dangerous headphone...




Not necessarily. I still like my other cans for certain types of EDM music. But these HD800s are out of this world for the detail, imaging and soundstage, almost like listening to a good set of speakers. I can't wait to get a decent amp and DAC up the chain


----------



## koiloco

spurxiii said:


> Not necessarily. I still like my other cans for certain types of EDM music. But these HD800s are out of this world for the detail, imaging and soundstage, almost like listening to a good set of speakers. I can't wait to get a decent amp and DAC up the chain


 

 +1


----------



## drez

justin_time said:


> The most effective mod I have tried with very little if any negative impact on the sound was the Anaxilus mod just on the metal ring around the driver.
> 
> Just search for the video here on how to do it with all the templates for cutting the foam and felt material.  I am sure you can find everything you need in a craft supply shop at Bangkok.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have similar setup with Anax 2.0 style on the ring and the shelf liner.  Do you use shelf liner or stock dust covers?


----------



## Justin_Time

drez said:


> I have similar setup with Anax 2.0 style on the ring and the shelf liner.  Do you use shelf liner or stock dust covers?




I use only the A anxious mod. 

I tried several materials in addition to the shelf liner . While there was improvement in some areas, there was also negative impacts on others.

So I ended up with only the Anaxilus mod, which has mostly positive impact with virtually no negatives.


----------



## drez

justin_time said:


> I use only the A anxious mod.
> 
> I tried several materials in addition to the shelf liner . While there was improvement in some areas, there was also negative impacts on others.
> 
> So I ended up with only the Anaxilus mod, which has mostly positive impact with virtually no negatives.


 
  
 Anax mod with only felt over the metal ring?  I will have to try that.


----------



## Justin_Time

drez said:


> Anax mod with only felt over the metal ring?  I will have to try that.




The Anaxilus mod uses felt on top of foam on the ring. 

It took care of the hardness in the sound around the lower treble. It also reduces the tendency toward sibilance.

Covering up the silver grill area with foam or other materials reduces the sibilance a little more, increase the upper bass but muddies up the midrange, reduces the clarity of the inner details and messes up the soundstage, overall a bad trade off for me.


----------



## Zoom25

justin_time said:


> Correct, up to a point. They do specify that your gear should be free of serious signs of wear. Actually for a while, they refused to re-paint used HP. They changed that policy later on.
> 
> They refused to repaint *one of my* HD800 because it had too many severe surface damages but did a great job removing a few dings I had on the other pair. Good as new. BTW, that new paint (automotive?) is a lot tougher than the stock paint. After two years, I haven't seen a single scratch on it!


 
 First world problems 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I know I'm getting mine colorwared at one point. Just want to get the rest of the rig and stand finalized first.


----------



## Taowolf51

zilch0md said:


> I've posted that "test" in several threads, but you're the first person ever to do the leg work, and best of all, you're reporting good results using this EQ software - iZotope Ozone 5.



 


Yep, sorry! I've been meaning to do the test but the last few weeks have been crazy.

I just tried it out, and I personally didn't hear any distortion on my EQ, which is Equalizer APO. 100Hz is definitely decently boosted, too. The only difference I noticed is the tone got louder (which it should) with the EQ on.

If you end up trying it out (it's free!), let me know if you notice any distortion.




koiloco said:


> To me,  HD800 = effortless details.
> 
> Gratz!



 

Agreed, these headphones seem to break all the rules I thought I knew about dynamic drivers, it's really impressive what they're capable of.



spurxiii said:


> Not necessarily. I still like my other cans for certain types of EDM music. But these HD800s are out of this world for the detail, imaging and soundstage, almost like listening to a good set of speakers. I can't wait to get a decent amp and DAC up the chain



 

After a little bit of EQing, these turned into the best experimental electronic music headphones I've ever heard. They perform pretty darn well with EDM, too.


----------



## 3ternalDr4gon

A couple questions:
  
 1. I think sometime last year an audio show conducted a blind test experiment with the HD800's and a couple other cans. The ones conducting the test said that the results showed that most people preferred the other cans (maybe the HD650's) over the HD800's. Can anyone refer me to that test?
  
 2. Does anyone here own a CIEM as well? If so, can you make a comparison between your CIEM and your HD800? I've read in threads that the only thing TOTL CIEM's don't have own HD800's is sound stage but coming from a CIEM thread there is obviously a bias


----------



## 62ohm

3ternaldr4gon said:


> A couple questions:
> 
> 1. I think sometime last year an audio show conducted a blind test experiment with the HD800's and a couple other cans. The ones conducting the test said that the results showed that most people preferred the other cans (maybe the HD650's) over the HD800's. Can anyone refer me to that test?
> 
> 2. Does anyone here own a CIEM as well? If so, can you make a comparison between your CIEM and your HD800? I've read in threads that the only thing TOTL CIEM's don't have own HD800's is sound stage but coming from a CIEM thread there is obviously a bias


 
  
 I have the HD650 and for me at least the HD800 gets more head time than the HD650.


----------



## lin0003

I have heard the HD650 and owned the HD600 numerous times and if people prefer them over the 800 they must really not like the 800's sound signature. Also there is not much point blind testing headphones when anyone who has previously listened to a pair of HD800s can definitely tell they are listening to one.


----------



## magiccabbage

Hd800 gets all my head time. I sold the HD650 because I wasn't using it.


----------



## 62ohm

magiccabbage said:


> Hd800 gets all my head time. I sold the HD650 because I wasn't using it.


 
  
 Could be my case in a month or two time, I suppose...


----------



## lin0003

I've gone through a lot of headphones, I usually sell them after around a month or so after getting them and the HD800 is the only one that has stayed for a long time and I don't see myself getting rid of it anytime soon.


----------



## Revogamer

HD800 has proven itself to be very sensitive to source once again,
  
 PS Audio DirectStream in the house at the moment..


----------



## spurxiii

I have a strange feeling with these cans too. I feel as though I won't look into buying another for a long while.


----------



## whirlwind

magiccabbage said:


> Hd800 gets all my head time. I sold the HD650 because I wasn't using it.


 
 +1
  
 I can not imagine anyone doing a blind test between the HD800 and HD650 and not knowing what can was the HD800


----------



## LugBug1

spurxiii said:


> Do the HD800s need to burn in? It doesn't sound that bright to my ears so far, everything just sounds so natural and wider in soundstage than anything I've ever heard. Its like a very very clear and smooth sounding HD600 that has no treble roll-off.


 
 Congrats  
  
 That is very similar in how I described my first experience with them. I had the K701 and HD600 on hand at the time so I wasn't blown away with the soundstage width (coming from the AKG's) but the depth and imaging was defo a mind blower!  I've always said that the HD600 are the next best thing to the HD800.


----------



## zhenya

Yeah, I can't see mistaking these for anything else. For me, the HD800 is leagues above my 580's. I still think the latter are a fantastic value, supremely comfortable, etc, but they are rather dark and to use the cliche, veiled in comparison to the 800's.

The 800's do two things for me that make me think they will be with me for a long time - they are transparent in a way that nothing else in my collection can compare with, rendering completely bare any changes or problems in my system. Two, the soundstage is immersive in a way I have never experienced with any other gear - the effect being so good that many older recordings not generally listenable on headphones without crossfeed are fine on the 800's. These two elements come together to make for a sound that is so addictive I have a hard time take them off. The first few days I had them the word _intensity_ kept coming to mind. No other listening experience I've ever had short of a _few_ live performances has had this same effect on me. 

The earlier Senns are great, but they haven't ever done anything like that for me.


----------



## yates7592

Can anybody recommend a good quality but simple EQ hardware with balanced connections for the HD800? I've been looking at the Art EQ355 which seems to get good reviews but it looks overly complicated for my needs with 31 bands for each channel (and Art 341 which has 15 bands but for both channels). All I really want is to use XLR connectors, and have maybe 10-15 bands with L/R channels linked. Any ideas?


----------



## spurxiii

These cans really really make a meal of bad recordings and the lower bit rate stuff don't they? It's so unforgiveing I'm having to skip quite a few songs while random.
  
 Now the real question, a V200 or a tube amp for these?


----------



## zilch0md

zilch0md said:


> ^  Congratulations.   I'm really looking forward to your later impressions, downstream.


 
  


spurxiii said:


> These cans really really make a meal of bad recordings and the lower bit rate stuff don't they? It's so unforgiveing I'm having to skip quite a few songs while random.
> 
> Now the real question, a V200 or a tube amp for these?


 
  
 And the hunt begins!   
  
 I'm like a guy adrift at sea in a lifeboat, looking for land since December of last year (when I first bought my HD800), and you just swam up and climbed in with me.  
  
 Welcome aboard!


----------



## spurxiii

zilch0md said:


> And the hunt begins!
> 
> I'm like a guy adrift at sea in a lifeboat, looking for land since December of last year (when I first bought my HD800), and you just swam up and climbed in with me.
> 
> Welcome aboard!


 
 Lol great analogy and so apt. Thanks for letting me climb aboard, we can search for paradise together 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm already thinking I have to up my budget


----------



## zilch0md

I don't want to influence you any more than I may have already, by telling you what _hasn't_ worked for me - in part because I'm certain my requirements are not typical of most HD800 owners.  
  
 I'm trying to push the HD800 *in the direction of* my LCD-2 rev.1's frequency response, retaining everything else the HD800 offers, without using EQ, all the while avoiding laptops and PCs as my transport - preferring the FiiO X5 coaxial out to a Metrum Octave MkII as my source (until further notice).
  
 In other words, I'm still adrift at sea because not just any beach will do.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 All that said, we are in the same boat with this observation...
  


> It's so unforgiving I'm having to skip quite a few songs while random.


 
  
 Thus far, maintaining a very select playlist for the HD800 is my best "solution" - as there are several albums out there that are recorded such that the HD800 can really show its stuff.   And a select playlist might just be where I end up - when I get tired of rowing this boat!
  
 Mike


----------



## Sorrodje

I lived as you with my selected playlist during a long time. the size of the playlist varied according to dac & amp changes. When the Sonett and Metrum has arrived , I found my promise land and can barely listen to everything except really crappy recordings.  and we know some genre suffer more than other from crappy recordings.
  
 I'm currently using the Beresford Caiman MKII instead of the Metrum and fortunately its seems I'm not back in the middle on nowhere , looking after salvation.
  
 That been said, I still think HD800 is not the best headphone for everything. With some recordings/Music , it offers stunning listens. with others it's OK but there're maybe better options elsewhere. Fortunately , for what I listen to, the HD800 covers 90 % of my bases (mostly Classical, Modern Jazz and electro) . For example, I had an Ultrasone Edition 12 during September. Very enjoayble headphone with a kind of euphony and fun i've really appreciated a lot. so I thought to buy one when mine wold go to its next owner.  But obviously ,I don't miss it so much since I'm back to the HD800 as my unique headphone . My Brain is used to the Senn After all so , even if it's not perfect when I want to listen Daft Punk, Jamie Cullum or Jamiroquai, I really can fully enjoy my music .
  
 But after all, I wouldn"t advice the HD800 for everyone and every tastes.


----------



## mcteague

I must admit I am surprised that so many HD800 owners really don't appear to like them that much. I read tons of stuff before picking up a pair and was nervous about all the bright & sibilant comments. Along with bloated bass, edgy treble really turns me off. Mine are running off a Schiit Asgard 2 amp and I just love them. My music collection is mostly classical and I have always sought out well recorded discs. After a couple of months use, I have not heard ANY sibilance and am only bothered by excess brightness when I know it is on the disc. That is, it still sounds bright through my Linkwitz Orion speakers.
  
 OTOH, I don't listen for hours on end so, perhaps, extended sessions may make me want to take them off. Making the rounds before purchase I thought the LCD-2 sounded grainy, the LCD-3s were nice but a bit dark. Fostex TH-900s had really good mids and highs but the bass was too boomy. The HD800s did not seem to stand out in any way but really grow on you. The best way to notice what they are doing is to switch back to my HD580s and then you really appreciate the space and detail. They sure look odd and cost too much, I picked up an open box set for 20% off, but I don't know what would be better. Maybe the Stax SR-009 but they are just too much money!
  
 Tim


----------



## longbowbbs

I love mine. Perhaps the rest of us are too busy listening to them to post...


----------



## spurxiii

Sorry I was listening to mine, it still sounds good. Still burning in also


----------



## RRod

The HD800s are the friend you go to when you need a straight answer with no sugar-coating. You come away feeling a bit shaken, but you know it's what you needed to hear. I find that thinking of them as "technical" cans pre-biases me towards dissecting sounds rather than listening to music. Whenever I find myself a bit distracted, then shift back to the music, I'm always floored by how good they sound.
  
 What I really like is how versatile they are when hooked up to a PC. Games, movies, the youtubez: it all sounds superb. Positioning in games is ridiculous (especially if it uses something like OpenAL for HRTFs), sounds are almost too realistic (can't tell you how many times a crying baby in this one game made me take off the cans and see if my own child was awake), and every gut punch is satisfyingly thumpy. I'm using them with V200+Überfrost USB and I can't see wanting to change any time soon.


----------



## Sorrodje

We should elaborate a data base of happy owners who live silently and happily for a long time with the HD800 and their dac/amp system .  The HD800 happiness database. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .
  
 This would be useful for newcomers


----------



## LugBug1

sorrodje said:


> We should elaborate a data base of happy owners who live silently and happily for a long time with the HD800 and their dac/amp system .  The HD800 happiness database.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm in that club bud 
  
 I see you now have the Caiman II, how does it stack against the BM II? With the HD800 of course


----------



## Sorrodje

lugbug1 said:


> I'm in that club bud
> 
> I see you now have the Caiman II, how does it stack against the BM II? With the HD800 of course


 
  
  
 I'll speak for my own system HD800 (unmodded) + DNA Sonett 2. Please consider the following statements as a personal opinion elaborated in my own context with my own ears. Consider what I say with a grain of salt. I obviously exaggerate subjectives impressions to make it understandable.
  
 The fact is the Octave and the Caiman are surprinsingly close IMO. and It seems I could happily live with both in my HD800 system.   
  
 The Beresford Caiman mkiI (CMII) is more suited to the HD800 than the Beresford Bushmaster mk ii (BMII). I've no doubt  . Unfortunately my USB/SPDIF transport is Broken since last tuesday so I can't use the Metrum Octave and the Bushmaster right now. When I'll grab a replacement Usb transport I'll  give you more direct comparison.  So. I can only use the CMII these last days.
  
 From memory, the BMII is impressive but its sound is a bit too thin and there's some treble etch I dislike a bit with the HD800. the BMII was perfectly fine wth the ED12 + O2 combo though .
  
 The CMII is a whole different story. Still very resolving with a great soundstage ( Beresford home sound I guess ? ) but with an overall more natural and bodied sound.  I'm not sure yet but the CMII seems to hit the sweet spot for my tastes : enough overall body & bass slam to be enjoyable for Jazz and EDM and Orchestral music.  enough clarity and bite in the treble to make classical Music exciting and energetic (THks for Chailly's beethoven ring .. it's exactly what I'm looking for bud !! )  . Mids are undoubtly less meaty and full than the Octave but remains "right" .  I really loved the Metrum Octave but IME, with the metrum I listen more to EDM and less to classical which I found a bit boring (still with the Metrum) and the feeling of lack of Clarity never left me.
  
 If I shoulds sum up and if someone would ask me some advice I'd answer that for pop/Metal/EDM/vocals , the octave is better. For Classical : Caiman mkII would be my pick.  for contemporary Jazz ( stuff like Joshua Redman, Chick Corea, ACT recordings)  : I enjoy both equally. Metrum sounds thicker and maybe a bit darker/warmer, Caiman sound more airy and neutral while staying musical . BMI is both detailed and musical too but with less meat on bones. Hope you see the point. 
  
 IMO both Caiman and Bushmaster HO are crap. So I only use those DACs with external amp ( Objective 2 & DNA Sonett 2) 
  
 I'll know a bit more after a few days without the Octave. My brain will be used to the Caiman mkII and reunification with the Octave will be insigthful.  Time will tell.


----------



## Somphon

spurxiii said:


> Not necessarily. I still like my other cans for certain types of EDM music. But these HD800s are out of this world for the detail, imaging and soundstage, almost like listening to a good set of speakers. I can't wait to get a decent amp and DAC up the chain



agree, love my HD800 but hug my LCD-3f at night.


----------



## LugBug1

Great stuff thanks for sharing that bud


----------



## zilch0md

sorrodje said:


> [snip]
> 
> Please consider the following statements as a personal opinion elaborated in my own context with my own ears. Consider what I say with a grain of salt. I obviously exaggerate subjective impressions to make it understandable.
> 
> [snip]


 
  
 I need to be more diligent at prefacing my opinions with disclaimers such as this.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Mike


----------



## zilch0md

sorrodje said:


>


 


Spoiler: Good comments






> I'll speak for my own system HD800 (unmodded) + DNA Sonett 2. Please consider the following statements as a personal opinion elaborated in my own context with my own ears. Consider what I say with a grain of salt. I obviously exaggerate subjectives impressions to make it understandable.
> 
> The fact is the Octave and the Caiman are surprinsingly close IMO. and It seems I could happily live with both in my HD800 system.
> 
> ...


 
  


  
 Everything you said about the Bushmaster MkII and the Metrum Octave rings true with my personal experience, adding though that I the headphone out of the Bushmaster MkII is superb with some phones _other than _the HD800.  It almost has enough power to bring out the best in the HD650, and I found that pairing to be wonderful, just the same.  If you like the  OPPO PM-1 or PM-2 signature, they are also well-suited to the headphone out of the Bushmaster MkII.  But there's just not enough power for the HD800, not to mention, the lack of fullness that you're finding with the Caiman MkII, which I've not yet heard.
  
 I was really startled at first with your likening the Caiman MkII to the Metrum Octave, but you qualified it later on in a way that I find very credible.  Going by the distinctions you've provided, I think I'd prefer the less neutral, less transparent Octave MkII over a Caiman MkII for the HD800 (again, not having heard the Caiman MkII).
  
 Thanks!  I feel like you've given me a really good handle on the Caiman MkII, which I'll skip for now...   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Mike


----------



## Sorrodje

zilch0md said:


> Spoiler: Good comments
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 For Beresford DAC's Headphone output : Yes I only speak for the HD800. A friend of mine had good results ( with his own ears , in own system blablabla ) with some grado and AKG on its Bushmaster If I remember well.
  
 I'll try with my Takstar and the new Ultrasone performance serie I'll have for reviewing purpose next week.


----------



## LugBug1

I'd agree that the hp out of the beresford's is not ideal for the HD800. However, as far as 'added' hp outs on dacs go it is really quite good with lower impedance cans. It has a very refined sound and a nice bottom end, very smooth. The BM and AKG's is a good match imo. Far too thin sounding with the HD800 though... It just ain't got the juice man!! 
  
 In regards to the Caiman, I'm defo interested in the mark II. I've owned the mark I for a number of years and still have no want to get rid. I trust Sorrodje's ears and so I'll see how he gets on with it


----------



## Sorrodje

> In regards to the Caiman, I'm defo interested in the mark II. I've owned the mark I for a number of years and still have no want to get rid. I trust Sorrodje's ears and so I'll see how he gets on with it


 
  
 UK and french postal services seem to work good together. When the metrum will be back in my system, I'll be able to loan you my Caïman mkII if you want  make your own opinion before any purchase


----------



## LugBug1

sorrodje said:


> UK and french postal services seem to work good together. When the metrum will be back in my system, I'll be able to loan you my Caïman mkII if you want  make your own opinion before any purchase


 
 Its a purchase that I'm probably going to make anyway but thanks for the offer bud- appreciate it  Even if it is a minor improvement then I know it will be good!


----------



## Maxx134

wildcatsare1 said:


> And I hadn't even gotten to the good part!



Yes I agree 100% on that cable is a huge reason why I canceled my hd800 sale and decided to keep it.
difference was huge improvement almost unreal.




currawong said:


> The HD-800s were great with the Phoenix, so if the Master 9 is 5 or so years of improvements on that, then it doesn't surprise me that it is a good match.
> 
> Damping update: The imaging is now so insanely precise after putting felt on the inner ring that listening is almost scary.



here is how I would do the anax mod..
Mod it partially(not whole mod) to keep the Soundstage :

Putting anything more than over the metal ring affects soundstaging in the bass area producing a disjointed image (IMHO) and the carpet liner works best WITHOUT the stock black felt over it...

Also I posted elsewhere what may be subjective and at odds with others findings, but was my experience and what I believe with certainty so here they are..

My key points:
Tips to achieve end game sound out of the h800..

1- Do the anax2.0 mod but leave out all creatology foam except for the ring around the driver...
This is because we want to keep the signature without loosing soundstage and just tame the ringing..

2-Use a true balanced amp with balanced XLR output of at least 2watts max...
The hd800 love voltage over current but need reserve power to give true bass weight...

3-Use newest cable designs that have the most surface to conductor ratio...
That means a litz type braided cable..

Stock cable is garbage and a contributor to problems as the hd800 is the most sensitive headphones to cable change that I ever tried.

There you have the "clues" to maximum performance..

Now all you need to do is find the match of components that gives you the right "flavor" and synergy you desire, 
which is another story altogether and will take you on a road of your choice of SS or tube route..


----------



## icebear

rrod said:


> The HD800s are *the friend you go to when you need a straight answer with no sugar-coating.* You come away feeling a bit shaken, but you know it's what you needed to hear. I find that thinking of them as "technical" cans pre-biases me towards dissecting sounds rather than listening to music. ...


 
  
*+1 *Great analogy !
 And ... well, not everyone appreciates such an honest opinion.
 Consequently there is a lot of complaining and nit picking on the HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Sorrodje

4 DACs , 2 Amps , Serious comparison to do .
  
  


  
  
 I had the vali a few month ago and was not so convinced. I had the possibility to trade my Odac/O2 against this little Schitt Stack so  I splunged beacause I was interested to make my own opinion on the Vali/Modi
  
 My new Vali have much less ringings than my first one !


----------



## whirlwind

spurxiii said:


> These cans really really make a meal of bad recordings and the lower bit rate stuff don't they? It's so unforgiveing I'm having to skip quite a few songs while random.
> 
> Now the real question, a V200 or a tube amp for these?


 
 They sure do!
  
 I feel so fortunate that i have been collecting really nice remasters for years now.....man is it ever paying off now.....I listen to pretty much nothing except flac files, and these cans love it!


----------



## Nudel

sorrodje said:


> I lived as you with my selected playlist during a long time. the size of the playlist varied according to dac & amp changes. When the Sonett and Metrum has arrived , I found my promise land and can barely listen to everything except really crappy recordings.  and we know some genre suffer more than other from crappy recordings.
> 
> I'm currently using the Beresford Caiman MKII instead of the Metrum and fortunately its seems I'm not back in the middle on nowhere , looking after salvation.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes that is prefectly right. HD 800 cannot fit every tastes but... I think they fit best with jazz, classic and some good rock recordings. They maybe not are the demons in terms of speed (especially lower bass) but kick bass and kick drums are really decent sounding on this cans. Trance and techno music is also not the strongest point. I think that this cans really deserve a fine quality recordings otherwise it will be not a pleasure at all to listen to especially new recordings wich are mostly ****ty in my opinion
 cheers


----------



## spurxiii

whirlwind said:


> They sure do!
> 
> I feel so fortunate that i have been collecting really nice remasters for years now.....man is it ever paying off now.....I listen to pretty much nothing except flac files, and these cans love it!



 


Damn it I have to start re-organising my music now. First world problems


----------



## holyindian

Got my HP today. delivered from Kentucky to chicago in 3 days of placing the order.
 I am using the denon 4311CI AVR right now, and its sounding pretty good. I think i will wait for a while till i am ready to buy a good amp/dac combo within the 2000-2500 bracket.
 Currently the avr is playing the hp pretty well, i am sure i am missing out a lot.. and if i use tube amps and proper dac there will be day and night difference in SQ, but i want to get the better amp, rather than the cheaper schiit.
 What are your suggestions now for my budget between 2000-2500 for amp/dac.


----------



## spurxiii

holyindian said:


> Got my HP today. delivered from Kentucky to chicago in 3 days of placing the order.
> 
> 
> I am using the denon 4311CI AVR right now, and its sounding pretty good. I think i will wait for a while till i am ready to buy a good amp/dac combo within the 2000-2500 bracket.
> ...



 


Hey that's my new budget as well lol


----------



## Revogamer

High End amps i would recommend..
  
 Woo Audio WA2 (for tubes)
 Sennheiser HDVD800 (need to run balanced)
 Auralic Taurus MKII (Need balanced too)
 Violectric V281 (Balanced as well, has optional DAC)
 Schiit Ragnarok too perhaps? Havent tried this one yet
  
 All bar the HDVD800 are standalone amps which would require a DAC too but are very good amps for the HD800 in my experience.


----------



## Rhamnetin

holyindian said:


> Got my HP today. delivered from Kentucky to chicago in 3 days of placing the order.
> I am using the denon 4311CI AVR right now, and its sounding pretty good. I think i will wait for a while till i am ready to buy a good amp/dac combo within the 2000-2500 bracket.
> Currently the avr is playing the hp pretty well, i am sure i am missing out a lot.. and if i use tube amps and proper dac there will be day and night difference in SQ, but i want to get the better amp, rather than the cheaper schiit.
> What are your suggestions now for my budget between 2000-2500 for amp/dac.


 
  
 Woo Audio WA22, plus some $500 DAC.


----------



## RUMAY408

Just back from a meet 
  
 Various HP's including:
 HE-6, HE500, HE560, T1, T5, Fostex TH900, HD700, HD650, PS1, PS500, GS1K, LCD-2 and Rev. version and X
  
 Various Amps and DAC's:  Schiit, Meier, OPPO etc.
  
 The HD800 is still my favorite HP (detail, imaging and soundstage), runner up for me, the HE-6 (better with harder and faster rock)


----------



## nephilim32

rumay408 said:


> Just back from a meet
> 
> Various HP's including:
> HE-6, HE500, HE560, T1, T5, Fostex TH900, HD700, HD650, PS1, PS500, GS1K, LCD-2 and Rev. version and X
> ...




With each passing year it seems that the HD 800 STILL reigns superior for sound imaging and overall dynamics to recreate a live soundstage. I've been a proud owner for three years now. This month was my general's of my soundcave's anniversary.


----------



## koiloco

> *Stock cable is garbage and a contributor to problems as the hd800* is the most sensitive headphones to cable change that I ever tried.


 
  
 Give me a F..... break please.  That's excessive exaggeration.  I know we are all entitled to our own opinion but saying things like that is just pure nonsense.


----------



## koiloco

rhamnetin said:


> Woo Audio WA22, plus some $500 DAC.


 
 +1


----------



## nephilim32

rumay408 said:


> ^^ I'm making a judgement from the stock Senns cables and a straight ahead comparison.  I love the HD800's imaging and soundstage and it was 20% better by my estimate with the upgrade.  Matt thought the change was 10-15% better with the Draug 2, if he's impressed then I'll take that and run.
> 
> Seriously cheaper than some other cables, but still not cheap.




Those are huge upgrade percentages to throw around for a cable that is aftermarket.


----------



## nephilim32

koiloco said:


> Give me a F..... break please.  That's excessive exaggeration.  I know we are all entitled to our own opinion but saying things like that is just pure nonsense.




I have to agree. There is nothing wrong with the HD 800's stock cable. Nothing.


----------



## zilch0md

Having previously thrown in the towel on trying different HD800 mods, Currawong's recently posted photo showing felt applied to the flat ring surrounding the driver, plus some foam over the bulging section, inspired me to get back to cutting and listening... and cutting and listening...
  
 I've settled on this (for now) and I am really pleased with it (thus far) - nothing but self-adhesive felt cut to a ring shape:
  

  
 The outside diameter of the ring of felt is 2-3/4 inches and the inside diameter is 2-1/8 inches.  
  
 I managed to find two different pieces of glassware having the right diameters to trace the circles on the felt backing before cutting with scissors - simple!
  
 This takes most of the "sting" out of the treble very nicely - and doesn't do much more than that (hopefully).  Time will tell. 
  
 I ended up not putting anything on the "bulge" or elsewhere.
  
 Joy!
  
 Mike


----------



## koiloco

^ looking good!


----------



## nephilim32

zilch0md said:


> Having previously thrown in the towel on trying different HD800 mods, Currawong's recently posted photo showing felt applied to the flat ring surrounding the driver, plus some foam over the bulging section, inspired me to get back to cutting and listening... and cutting and listening...
> 
> I've settled on this (for now) and I am really pleased with it (thus far) - nothing but self-adhesive felt cut to a ring shape:
> 
> ...




It looks bloody awesome I will give you that. 
Hope it doesn't mess with the 800's huge airy soundstage or dynamics. It doesn't look stifling.


----------



## zilch0md

Thanks!
  
 And then I went wild in Photoshop:


----------



## Maxvla

Looks like part of a Borg ship, but red instead of green.


----------



## Anavel0

zilch0md said:


> Thanks!
> 
> And then I went wild in Photoshop:


H.R. Ginger would approve.


----------



## holyindian

rhamnetin said:


> Woo Audio WA22, plus some $500 DAC.


 
  
 I found a the schiit Bifrost with Uber analog with usb gen 2 on craiglist in pristine condition for 300 bucks shipped.
 Is that a good dac, and will it do justice to a top of the line amp? I plan on the Eddy Current super 7 (with some better tubes), or a Cavalli Audio Liquid gold in the future. Will keep an eye if i can pick up any of these used. 


revogamer said:


> High End amps i would recommend..
> 
> Woo Audio WA2 (for tubes)
> Sennheiser HDVD800 (need to run balanced)
> ...


 
 what is ur take on Eddy Current super 7 (with some better tubes), or a Cavalli Audio Liquid gold


----------



## Rhamnetin

holyindian said:


> I found a the schiit Bifrost with Uber analog with usb gen 2 on craiglist in pristine condition for 300 bucks shipped.
> Is that a good dac, and will it do justice to a top of the line amp? I plan on the Eddy Current super 7 (with some better tubes), or a Cavalli Audio Liquid gold in the future. Will keep an eye if i can pick up any of these used.
> what is ur take on Eddy Current super 7 (with some better tubes), or a Cavalli Audio Liquid gold


 
  
 That's a really good deal for the Bifrost, as long as the seller is reputable.  It's definitely a good place to start.  Both of those amps are out of your budget right now.  I only tried the HD 800 with the GS-X Mk2 and WA22, and man did they sing with the WA22... you can't call the HD 800 sterile with the WA22 that's for sure.


----------



## akhyar

rhamnetin said:


> Woo Audio WA22, plus some $500 DAC.


 
  +1.
 I'm thinking of WA22 + Matrix i-Mini Pro that supports DSD and balanced out
http://www.headfonia.com/matrix-mini-i-budget-combo/2/


----------



## MIKELAP

pearljam50000 said:


> Is the abyss really worth 3x of the HD800 price?


 
  i listen to the Abyss of a Woo Audio5 at an Audio show was expecting alot got out of there a happy man because i knew my journey was over its the HD 800  for me .


----------



## koiloco

^ that's 1 long sentence, brother!


----------



## holyindian

rhamnetin said:


> That's a really good deal for the Bifrost, as long as the seller is reputable.  It's definitely a good place to start.  Both of those amps are out of your budget right now.  I only tried the HD 800 with the GS-X Mk2 and WA22, and man did they sing with the WA22... you can't call the HD 800 sterile with the WA22 that's for sure.


 
  
 Thanks for that info.
 I dont plan to get any of those amp right now, it will be around tax time.
  
 By the way. How do you connect your phone to one of these dac/amps? the cell phone has a smaller connecting port compared to the thicker/bigger one with the hd800?
 Another question, do you equalize or use presets with any of your music players? I'll be using the macbook, whats commonly used by the audiophiles. few pages back i was looking at the izotop ozone. I guess thats not that simple to configure and use, there is a steep learning curve. or do ppl do share their settings, or preset files?


----------



## Maxx134

Deleted...
off topic


----------



## koiloco

^ wow.  First I heard 20%.  Now, you are saying 40%.   It's getting tempting even for a cable non-believer like me.  Good return policy and typical turn around?
  
 Also, just to clarify that you compare your single ended stock cable to a balanced Draug 2 cable?


----------



## MickeyVee

Don't think you can compare SE stock cable versus Druag2 Balanced.  Properly implemented balanced will give "deeper, cleaner & more impactfull perception of sound" over a standard SE. (Tried this on a HDVD800 balanced and SE at the same time, Senn cables)
  
 If you compared Senn balanced cable versus Druag2 balanced on the same amp, you'd probably be back to the 3-5% improvement.
  
 Quote:


maxx134 said:


> Sorry guys I know how you feel but this is not like anything I have experienced in the past.
> 
> The Druag2 cable must be herd to be believed and once you do that, there's no going back..
> 
> ...


----------



## Rhamnetin

holyindian said:


> Thanks for that info.
> I dont plan to get any of those amp right now, it will be around tax time.
> 
> By the way. How do you connect your phone to one of these dac/amps? the cell phone has a smaller connecting port compared to the thicker/bigger one with the hd800?
> Another question, do you equalize or use presets with any of your music players? I'll be using the macbook, whats commonly used by the audiophiles. few pages back i was looking at the izotop ozone. I guess thats not that simple to configure and use, there is a steep learning curve. or do ppl do share their settings, or preset files?


 
  
 Not every phone works with a DAC.  If yours has a USB connection, that would work with a USB DAC.  To connect to an amplifier, you'd have to use a 3.5mm to dual RCA cable/adapter.  If you want to plug something like the HD 800 directly into the phone (I doubt it would sound good), you'd need a 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter.
  
 Most people around here use Equalizer APO I think.  Personally I don't really use EQ.


----------



## holyindian

rhamnetin said:


> Not every phone works with a DAC.  If yours has a USB connection, that would work with a USB DAC.  To connect to an amplifier, you'd have to use a 3.5mm to dual RCA cable/adapter.  If you want to plug something like the HD 800 directly into the phone (I doubt it would sound good), you'd need a 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter.
> 
> Most people around here use Equalizer APO I think.  Personally I don't really use EQ.


 
  
 Cool thanks.
 I really like to listen to music just before i fall asleep, and plan to keep the amp/dac next to the bed side. will i always have to connect the macbook to the dac/amp each time i am listening to music?


----------



## Rhamnetin

holyindian said:


> Cool thanks.
> I really like to listen to music just before i fall asleep, and plan to keep the amp/dac next to the bed side. will i always have to connect the macbook to the dac/amp each time i am listening to music?


 
  
 Probably, yes.  Unless you have a phone that could plug into a DAC.


----------



## MickeyVee

Which phone and which DAC?
 I can and have connected my iPhone5/6 and iPad MiniR with the Camera Connection Kit > USB Cable > DAC/AMP.
  
 Quote:


holyindian said:


> Cool thanks.
> I really like to listen to music just before i fall asleep, and plan to keep the amp/dac next to the bed side. will i always have to connect the macbook to the dac/amp each time i am listening to music?


----------



## koiloco

mickeyvee said:


> Don't think you can compare SE stock cable versus Druag2 Balanced.  Properly implemented balanced will give "deeper, cleaner & more impactfull perception of sound" over a standard SE. (Tried this on a HDVD800 balanced and SE at the same time, Senn cables)
> 
> If you compared Senn balanced cable versus Druag2 balanced on the same amp, you'd probably be back to the 3-5% improvement.


 
  +1


----------



## holyindian

rhamnetin said:


> Probably, yes.  Unless you have a phone that could plug into a DAC.


 
  
 the phone is a Note III, love the viper4android audio driver/app with custom music effects.
  


mickeyvee said:


>


 
  
 the dac is a schiit bifrost w/ uber analog and 2nd gen usb.
 I am still deciding upon an amp, probably a eddy current super 7 or if i can find used cavalli audio liquid glass


----------



## Taowolf51

zilch0md said:


> I don't want to influence you any more than I may have already, by telling you what _hasn't_ worked for me - in part because I'm certain my requirements are not typical of most HD800 owners.
> 
> I'm trying to push the HD800 *in the direction of* my LCD-2 rev.1's frequency response, retaining everything else the HD800 offers, without using EQ, all the while avoiding laptops and PCs as my transport - preferring the FiiO X5 coaxial out to a Metrum Octave MkII as my source (until further notice).
> 
> ...



 


What makes you want to stay away from EQ's and computers? Are you making a transportable setup?


----------



## skeptic

zilch - have you had a chance to try a mainline yet, or alternatively it's commercial cousin the L2? while remaining fast, detailed and dynamic, this amp allowed me to happily pull my anax mod without ever looking back. Got mine up and running a year back and I have 0 upgraditis on the amp front. Wouldn't trade it for a Zd, wa5/22, 307a or any of the other names that pop up over and over. If you have the time and patience to sink into the build, it is a really tough amp to beat, particularly with hd800s.


----------



## punit

rumay408 said:


> Just back from a meet
> 
> Various HP's including:
> HE-6, HE500, HE560, T1, T5, Fostex TH900, HD700, HD650, PS1, PS500, GS1K, LCD-2 and Rev. version and X
> ...


 

 Which was your fav amp for the HE 6?


----------



## kothganesh

punit said:


> Which was your fav amp for the HE 6?


 

 Punit, just get a Krell and distribute your other amps for free


----------



## zilch0md

taowolf51 said:


> [snip]
> 
> What makes you want to stay away from EQ's and computers? Are you making a transportable setup?


 
  
 Yes, I use a FiiO X5 with an iBasso PB2 as a portable rig, but also as the transport for my desktop rig (at my recliner).  My biggest problem with using laptops or PCs is that I find myself easily distracted by surfing or reading and posting to Head-Fi - instead of really listening to the music. Even the iPad Mini can be a distraction. I get the most pleasure from my music when I'm not fiddling with something else.  
  


Spoiler: A photo I've posted previously...






  
  
 My laptop-equipped, constantly evolving, dining table "audio lab" is well-suited to analyzing gear, but not at all conducive to _enjoying_ music.   
  


Spoiler: Another previously posted shot...






  
  


skeptic said:


> zilch - have you had a chance to try a mainline yet, or alternatively it's commercial cousin the L2? while remaining fast, detailed and dynamic, this amp allowed me to happily pull my anax mod without ever looking back. Got mine up and running a year back and I have 0 upgraditis on the amp front. Wouldn't trade it for a Zd, wa5/22, 307a or any of the other names that pop up over and over. If you have the time and patience to sink into the build, it is a really tough amp to beat, particularly with hd800s.


 
  
 I've heard a lot of good things about the mainline and have fantasized about jumping on this beauty built by Misterrogers, ever since he first posted it for sale:
  

  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/733108/custom-bottlehead-mainline-build
  
 But I'm too frugally disciplined (cheap!) to spend that much money on an amp, despite believing it's worth every penny he's asking.  And I don't have the skill to build one, myself.  And then there's the whole problem (my problem) with tubes - I'd go nuts rolling them for months, I'm sure, because I did exactly that rolling op-amps in my iBasso PB2 portable amp.  But I nonetheless believe tube amps of this caliber are the best way to go with the HD800.  
  
 I'm currently hoping to find a sufficiently warm (for the HD800 and my tastes) and very transparent, less than $1000 solid state amp, preferably of a low-feedback design (something like a used Audio-gd Master 9, for example.)
  
 Meanwhile, my Metrum Octave MkII and my recently applied ring-of-felt HD800 mod have taken the HD800 a lot closer to where I want it. My HD800 playlist is getting larger...
  
 Thanks,
  
 Mike


----------



## Sorrodje

zilch0md said:


> And then there's the whole problem (my problem) with tubes - I'd go nuts rolling them for months, I'm sure,


 
  
  
 LOL . I'm in the same boat and it's one of the reason why I've choosen the DNA Sonett 2 . there's very few tube rolling options. I can live quietly without always asking myself if another tubes combination would sound any better.


----------



## lin0003

Just picked up a HE-500 again and it compliments the HD800 wonderfully.


----------



## magiccabbage

zilch0md said:


> Spoiler: A photo I've posted previously...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Its a pity that the mainline is rotten ugly.


----------



## spurxiii

Wow Jeff Buckley on these sound so good


----------



## Sorrodje

holyindian said:


> What are your suggestions now for my budget between 2000-2500 for amp/dac.


 
  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/12615#post_10774632  some Ideas for you


----------



## Priidik

magiccabbage said:


> Its a pity that the mainline is rotten ugly.


 
 One can always build custom case and add pots etc. It was what i thought if i'd get one.


----------



## kazsud

mikelap said:


> i listen to the Abyss of a Woo Audio5 at an Audio show was expecting alot got out of there a happy man because i knew my journey was over its the HD 800  for me .




I felt the same after hearing the abyss on the wa234 lol


----------



## Priidik

Quote:
  
And then there's the whole problem (my problem) with tubes - I'd go nuts rolling them for months, I'm sure, because I did exactly that rolling op-amps in my iBasso PB2 portable amp.  But I nonetheless believe tube amps of this caliber are the best way to go with the HD800.  


> Mike


 
 One thing to note with Mainline is that there are not many choices to roll in.
 Good thing is that the parafeed circuitry is supposedly somewhat less dependant on tubes.
 But there are caps, transformers and pots that can be upgraded.


----------



## zilch0md

magiccabbage said:


> Its a pity that the mainline is rotten ugly.


 
  
 LOL  
  
 I'm able to get past what you're seeing, but I know what you mean.
  
 It helps to try looking at a Bottlehead S.E.X. for 60 seconds!


----------



## zilch0md

priidik said:


> One thing to note with Mainline is that there are not many choices to roll in.
> Good thing is that the parafeed circuitry is supposedly somewhat less dependant on tubes.
> But there are caps, transformers and pots that can be upgraded.


 
  
 That's good to know, especially since I'm not very good with a soldering iron.


----------



## zhenya

spurxiii said:


> Wow Jeff Buckley on these sound so good


 
 I agree. I don't even like most of his work all that much but for some reason it just works with these. I get sucked in every time.


----------



## skeptic

priidik said:


> One thing to note with Mainline is that there are not many choices to roll in.
> Good thing is that the parafeed circuitry is supposedly somewhat less dependant on tubes.
> But there are caps, transformers and pots that can be upgraded.




No choices at all in terms of tubes actually. The circuit is highly linear 6c45pi super tubes only. They're plentiful, $15 a pop and good for 10k+ hours. No need for matching because the mainline has trim pots to account for any difference between tubes. The 12au7 in is only a voltage divider in the regulator circuit and doesn't impact sound. 

Output caps can be rolled, but that's mostly just for fun and to make it your own. The stock film caps sound great as is and are far better than the electrolytics many manufacturers like woo use in their output stage. 

Re transformers, replacements would not be desirable unless you were putting in something like megabuck magnaquest output transformers, but that would mean big changes to the circuit and possibly a new chassis. Mainline alread has very high quality custom designed transformers and an awesome dual switch attenuator circuit that means the signal is only ever passing through two precision matched resistors for volume control purposes. Not aware of anything better out there in terms of pots or steppers. Bottlehead sells this attenuator circuit as a standalone for several hundred dollars. 



magiccabbage said:


> Its a pity that the mainline is rotten ugly.




Agree to disagree. I love the way my mainline looks on my vintage stainless steel desk. My old woo was clunky and gaudy by comparison. To each their own though.


----------



## LugBug1

zilch0md said:


> Thanks!
> 
> And then I went wild in Photoshop:


 
 Hah I Iuv this!


----------



## spurxiii

zhenya said:


> I agree. I don't even like most of his work all that much but for some reason it just works with these. I get sucked in every time.




 I'm the same. I could never listen to a whole album before and I finished Grace last night. They truly make listening more enjoyable for some albums


----------



## pearljam50000

People claim that the Stax 009 is better than HD800, but most people agree that the HD800 has the best soundstage off all headphones, so how is it possible for the 009 to better than HD800?


----------



## OJNeg

Because there's more to sound reproduction than sound stage?....
  
 And I'm saying this as someone who prefers the HD800 to the Stax


----------



## pearljam50000

lol, yes, but i think that soundstage is really important, especially in headphones!


----------



## paradoxper

pearljam50000 said:


> People claim that the Stax 009 is better than HD800, but most people agree that the HD800 has the best soundstage off all headphones, so how is it possible for the 009 to better than HD800?


 
 Better in what way? Everything comes down to preferences and no headphone is perfect, so..


----------



## Rhamnetin

pearljam50000 said:


> People claim that the Stax 009 is better than HD800, but most people agree that the HD800 has the best soundstage off all headphones, so how is it possible for the 009 to better than HD800?


 
  
 Read any comparison between the two, in addition to what OJNeg said.  The HD 800 has a wider sound stage, slightly better imaging (though I found it hard to tell to be honest, I'll just take everyone else's word on this), but the SR-009 has better bass texture, amazing tonal balance, better decay, some of the best transients, and overall incredible realism.  
  
 It's mostly personal preference, a number of people even prefer the SR-009's sound stage presentation to that of the HD 800.  Some people may disagree with me about bass texture.  I recommend you listen to both yourself.  Both are amazing.  Make sure you hear the HD 800 both on tubes and on a solid state, if you haven't already.  I wasn't fascinated with its sound when paired with a transparent solid state, but tubes brought much desired life to them.


----------



## nephilim32

maxx134 said:


> Deleted...
> off topic




I believe you though.


----------



## nephilim32

rhamnetin said:


> Read any comparison between the two, in addition to what OJNeg said.  The HD 800 has a wider sound stage, slightly better imaging (though I found it hard to tell to be honest, I'll just take everyone else's word on this), but the SR-009 has better bass texture, amazing tonal balance, better decay, some of the best transients, and overall incredible realism.
> 
> It's mostly personal preference, a number of people even prefer the SR-009's sound stage presentation to that of the HD 800.  Some people may disagree with me about bass texture.  I recommend you listen to both yourself.  Both are amazing.  Make sure you hear the HD 800 both on tubes and on a solid state, if you haven't already.  I wasn't fascinated with its sound when paired with a transparent solid state, but tubes brought much desired life to them.




Well said and good advice, but most audio retailers for high end gear around me don't have a 5000$ electrostatic pair of headphones to demo. Sadly. I'd love to hear what the stax really have. I'd pair it with my Burson soloist first. Then buy a woo audio firefly. Good enough. Electrostatic amps are crazy expensive.


----------



## koiloco

skeptic said:


> ...
> 
> Agree to disagree. I love the way my mainline looks on my vintage stainless steel desk. My old woo was clunky and gaudy by comparison. To each their own though.


 
  
 I also dig the way Mainline looks.


----------



## koiloco

rhamnetin said:


> Read any comparison between the two, in addition to what OJNeg said.  The HD 800 has a wider sound stage, slightly better imaging (though I found it hard to tell to be honest, I'll just take everyone else's word on this),* but the SR-009 has better bass texture, amazing tonal balance, better decay, some of the best transients, and overall incredible realism. *
> 
> It's mostly personal preference, a number of people even prefer the SR-009's sound stage presentation to that of the HD 800.  Some people may disagree with me about bass texture.  I recommend you listen to both yourself.  Both are amazing.  Make sure you hear the HD 800 both on tubes and on a solid state, if you haven't already.  I wasn't fascinated with its sound when paired with a transparent solid state, but tubes brought much desired life to them.


 
  
 +1 well said.  I was fortunately enough to listen to the 009 driven by a Headamp blue hawaii.  Here's what I would say :
  
 HD800 = "oh sh..t, this is really good.  Wow wow wow"
 SR-009 = " ..... ..... ....."  I am crying cuz I feel the music that much more.
  
 YMMV.


----------



## bearFNF

nephilim32 said:


> Well said and good advice, but most audio retailers for high end gear around me don't have a 5000$ electrostatic pair of headphones to demo. Sadly. I'd love to hear what the stax really have. I'd pair it with my Burson soloist first. Then buy a woo audio firefly. Good enough. Electrostatic amps are crazy expensive.



So, you can't pair the Stax with those amps, you have to have an electrostatic amp. Unless you meant to pair the HD800 with those amps???


----------



## kothganesh

nephilim32 said:


> Well said and good advice, but most audio retailers for high end gear around me don't have a 5000$ electrostatic pair of headphones to demo. Sadly. I'd love to hear what the stax really have. I'd pair it with my Burson soloist first. Then buy a woo audio firefly. Good enough. Electrostatic amps are crazy expensive.



I could have misunderstood your intent but how do you drive the Stax with a Soloist or the Firefly? Biases are different, you need massive voltage swings that normal headphone amps don't give you.


----------



## bearFNF

kothganesh said:


> I could have misunderstood your intent but how do you drive the Stax with a Soloist or the Firefly? Biases are different, you need massive voltage swings that normal headphone amps don't give you.



You don't. ..


----------



## RUMAY408

Audio-gd Master 8Quote: 





nephilim32 said:


> I have to agree. There is nothing wrong with the HD 800's stock cable. Nothing.


 
 Agreed.  They are fine stock cable.  I would have been the last person to "drink the Kool Aid" of the cable myth, but re-reading David Mahler's 58 HP thread, made me curious enough to try a cable change on my HD650 (ALO green balanced).  Well that worked, so goodbye cash and an HD800 cable change.
  


punit said:


> Which was your fav amp for the HE 6?


 
 Theogenes Audio-gd Master 8 and my own Meier Stack


----------



## Wildcatsare1

bearfnf said:


> So, you can't pair the Stax with those amps, you have to have an electrostatic amp. Unless you meant to pair the HD800 with those amps???




Your right, you have either have a transformer on the amp or the speaker, my big SoundLabs have huge toroidal transformers built in so that you could use your speaker amp of choice.


----------



## nephilim32

bearfnf said:


> So, you can't pair the Stax with those amps, you have to have an electrostatic amp. Unless you meant to pair the HD800 with those amps???




Yeah you're right. I just went into fantasy land trying to avoid costs of an electrostatic amp. I know a good one will run you 4 to 5g's making the stax thee most expensive headphone to carry. Probably cost around 10 to 12g's to do it right. I am amazed at the Burson's power, but its probably not enough. I wish though. Save me so much money. 

I'd be so curious if the STAX was or is really a headphone that can bring you that much closer to the music more than the HD 800. 
It's hard to imagine a headphone that out does the Sennheiser for dynamics and wide soundstage presentation.


----------



## paradoxper

There is a KGSS for sale right now that's less than $2k, and plenty more options that run less than $3k.


----------



## Rhamnetin

nephilim32 said:


> Yeah you're right. I just went into fantasy land trying to avoid costs of an electrostatic amp. I know a good one will run you 4 to 5g's making the stax thee most expensive headphone to carry. Probably cost around 10 to 12g's to do it right. I am amazed at the Burson's power, but its probably not enough. I wish though. Save me so much money.
> 
> I'd be so curious if the STAX was or is really a headphone that can bring you that much closer to the music more than the HD 800.
> It's hard to imagine a headphone that out does the Sennheiser for dynamics and wide soundstage presentation.


 
  
 The SR-009's sound stage isn't quite as wide as the HD 800.  The Abyss AB-1266 doesn't have wider presentation either, at least to my ears.  I don't know if anything matches the HD 800 in that regard.  Your best bet to demo equipment like this would be at meets and shows.


----------



## nephilim32

rumay408 said:


> Agreed.  They are fine stock cable.  I would have been the last person to "drink the Kool Aid" of the cable myth, but re-reading David Mahler's 58 HP thread, made me curious enough to try a cable change on my HD650 (ALO green balanced).  Well that worked, so goodbye cash and an HD800 cable change.
> 
> Theogenes Audio-gd Master 8 and my own Meier Stack




Yeah. It's the curiosity that kills us audio freaks isn't it. We have to try things out and spend the cash to do it. I love audio technology and I love music. It all comes down to piece of mind where you want to ensure yourself you are giving your sources the best care they deserve. I will be buying an ALO cable in the future. I have done everything else except replace the stock cable.


----------



## nephilim32

rhamnetin said:


> The SR-009's sound stage isn't quite as wide as the HD 800.  The Abyss AB-1266 doesn't have wider presentation either, at least to my ears.  I don't know if anything matches the HD 800 in that regard.  Your best bet to demo equipment like this would be at meets and shows.




One day I will fly to Colorado for CanJam. I would have an amazing time at Rocky Mountain. I would be in heaven and could easily spend a whole weekend demoing all kinds of amazing gear. 

Also. It's kind of reassuring you said that to me about the stax presentation v.s the HD 800. When I first set out to build an exceptional headphone listening experience my goal was to get realism and accuracy in my music with no coloration at all. i also wanted to recreate a live soundstage that is airy and tonally accurate to my ears. I guess those 800's was one great purchase I made. I have to say, it's really pleasing to see and hear so many people here on head fi to be so positive about the HD 800 in general. I am one of them.


----------



## Rhamnetin

nephilim32 said:


> One day I will fly to Colorado for CanJam. I would have an amazing time at Rocky Mountain. I would be in heaven and could easily spend a whole weekend demoing all kinds of amazing gear.
> 
> Also. It's kind of reassuring you said that to me about the stax presentation v.s the HD 800. When I first set out to build an exceptional headphone listening experience my goal was to get realism and accuracy in my music with no coloration at all. i also wanted to recreate a live soundstage that is airy and tonally accurate to my ears. I guess those 800's was one great purchase I made. I have to say, it's really pleasing to see and hear so many people here on head fi to be so positive about the HD 800 in general. I am one of them.


 
  
 Yeah the HD 800 is fantastic, and very hard to beat in some areas.  Regarding sound stage, some feel that the HD 800 is artificially wide (I'm not one of them) and these people will like the SR-009's sound stage better.  You should really like the SR-009, it's also uncolored and very realistic.  That's probably why people like to compare the two.


----------



## nephilim32

rhamnetin said:


> Yeah the HD 800 is fantastic, and very hard to beat in some areas.  Regarding sound stage, some feel that the HD 800 is artificially wide (I'm not one of them) and these people will like the SR-009's sound stage better.  You should really like the SR-009, it's also uncolored and very realistic.  That's probably why people like to compare the two.




Think you are right. I probably would adore the Stax with a proper amp companion. I also find nothing uncolored about the 800's imagining and tonalities, but then again to be fair I've got pretty decent sources to run the 800's properly which they so desperately need. I've heard some around here complain about the treble presentation and sibilance in the 800 and that is pretty much it. Personally though, I find the treble to be deadly accurate to my ears. The way cymbal crashes are heard through the 800's is magical. Can't get over the accuracy. It's heaven and I'm sure the stax and abyss are as well. Better be for that kind of coin.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

rumay408 said:


> Agreed.  They are fine stock cable.  I would have been the last person to "drink the Kool Aid" of the cable myth, but re-reading David Mahler's 58 HP thread, made me curious enough to try a cable change on my HD650 (ALO green balanced).  Well that worked, so goodbye cash and an HD800 cable change.
> 
> Theogenes Audio-gd Master 8 and my own Meier Stack




Happy too have played a role in your coming over to the Dark Side ! Next Tube Rolling!!!!


----------



## nephilim32

Yeah. I hear tube rolling can be a pretty rewarding experience. Exhausting but rewarding none the less. Think JENSEN make pretty high quality power tubes and rectifiers.


----------



## kothganesh

nephilim32 said:


> Yeah you're right. I just went into fantasy land trying to avoid costs of an electrostatic amp.* I know a good one will run you 4 to 5g's making the stax thee most expensive headphone to carry. Probably cost around 10 to 12g's to do it right*. I am amazed at the Burson's power, but its probably not enough. I wish though. Save me so much money.
> 
> .............


 
  
 Actually...a very good electrostatic amp like the KGSShv will you set you back a little over 2 grand (the amp alone)...if you can find it...I own one. Yes, the cost of the amp+the Stax can you set you back 4-5 g's.


----------



## nephilim32

kothganesh said:


> Actually...a very good electrostatic amp like the KGSShv will you set you back a little over 2 grand (the amp alone)...if you can find it...I own one. Yes, the cost of the amp+the Stax can you set you back 4-5 g's.






Oh my. 1200 Volts for a maximum power outage. Can support 560Vc. Yeah. My Burson doesn't have those specs. Lol. 
The stax really do need a special amp.


----------



## Taowolf51

zilch0md said:


> Yes, I use a FiiO X5 with an iBasso PB2 as a portable rig, but also as the transport for my desktop rig (at my recliner).  My biggest problem with using laptops or PCs is that I find myself easily distracted by surfing or reading and posting to Head-Fi - instead of really listening to the music. Even the iPad Mini can be a distraction. I get the most pleasure from my music when I'm not fiddling with something else.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 

As good a reason as any, good luck!

By the way, what do you think about that Oppo with the HD800's? Such a beautiful amp. 



kazsud said:


> I felt the same after hearing the abyss on the wa234 lol



 

Agreed, it was actually one of the most underwhelming setups I heard at that meet (despite being the most expensive). I think the HD800 is actually a far better pairing with that Woo amp. I didn't get a lot of time with the HD800 WA234 combo, but what I did hear was pretty damn impressive.


----------



## Zoom25

If soundstage is absolutely the most important thing to you, then might as well as look at speakers that best fit your situation.


----------



## 62ohm

zoom25 said:


> If soundstage is absolutely the most important thing to you, then might as well as look at speakers that best fit your situation.


 
  
 I am actually thinking of getting a speaker system at the moment, but I'm afraid that it would become a new addiction with a whole new target to be achieved and would cost me too much money to pursue..
  
 The HD800's soundstage would have to make do for now, but I guess it is almost a certainty that I would eventually get a speaker system.


----------



## Dopaminer

Hey, could some of you gurus give me advice on running my HD800s from the speaker taps of my amp?  It`s 23 year old Denon PMA-S1, an absolute dream with my speaker systems.  I recently read a blog by some guy who`s running his HD800s from a vintage Pioneer and I thought I would like to give it a try.  If someone could look at these specs and give me a go / no-go I would really appreciate it ! 
  
  

Power :​2x 50W _(8 Ohm ; 20Hz...20Khz)_​2x 100W _(4 Ohm ; 1Khz)_​Dynamic power :​2x 120W _(4 Ohm)_​2x 200W _(2 Ohm)_​THD :​0,07% _(1Khz ; 25W ; 8 Ohm)_​Power bandwidth :​5Hz...50Khz _(8 Ohm ; 0,1% THD)_​Frequency response :​1Hz...150Khz _(1W ; +0 / -3dB)_​Output impedance :​0,1 Ohm _(1Khz)_​Inputs :​Phono MM _(2,5mV / 47kOhm)_​Tuner _(150mV / 47kOhm)_​Aux _(150mV / 47kOhm)_​Tape 1 & 2 _(150mV / 47kOhm)_​Balanced _(150mV / 100kOhm)_​RIAA accuracy :​± 0,3dB _(20Hz...20Khz)_​Max. input :​150mV _(1Khz ; Phono MM)_​Max. output :​10V for 150mV input​THD :​0,002% _(1Khz ; 5V output)_​S/N ratio :​91dB _(phono MM ; 5mV input)_​108dB _(lines)_​
​


----------



## spurxiii

dopaminer said:


> Hey, could some of you gurus give me advice on running my HD800s from the speaker taps of my amp?  It`s 23 year old Denon PMA-S1, an absolute dream with my speaker systems.  I recently read a blog by some guy who`s running his HD800s from a vintage Pioneer and I thought I would like to give it a try.  If someone could look at these specs and give me a go / no-go I would really appreciate it !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm driving my HD800s via the Topping TP60 and Emotiva Mini-x with speaker taps into a TRS 1/4 inch female. They both have similar power specs to your amp. If its an older amp why don't you just use the TRS connection out the fromt of the amp. Older amps usually just have a resistor network for the HP out, it would sound the same via the speaker taps.
  
 There's a bit of noise floor with both of my amps but not noticeable when the music is playing (I might try some resistors to help this later). Both amps have a shared ground so I don't need to run balanced. If you're going to use speaker taps, check your amp's circuit  and see if the ground is shared or not, if its shared you can do the same thing as me, of not you'll have to use a different cable and go balanced. Check out the thread on speaker amps
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/629352/he-500-lcd2-d5000-dt770-sr80-on-a-speaker-amp-emotiva-mini-x-a-100-project
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/649107/speaker-amps-for-headphones


----------



## Dopaminer

spurxiii said:


> I'm driving my HD800s via the Topping TP60 and Emotiva Mini-x with speaker taps into a TRS 1/4 inch female. They both have similar power specs to your amp. If its an older amp why don't you just use the TRS connection out the fromt of the amp. Older amps usually just have a resistor network for the HP out, it would sound the same via the speaker taps.
> 
> ... If you're going to use speaker taps, check your amp's circuit  and see if the ground is shared or not, if its shared you can do the same thing as me, of not you'll have to use a different cable and go balanced. Check out the thread on speaker amps
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for those links spurxiii; the second one has a ton of useful info. 
 My amp is really minimal for an integrated - no headphone out. (and no tone controls or speaker switching)  It`s also a balanced amp with XLR imputs.  I`m eager to give this a go. . . .


----------



## zilch0md

taowolf51 said:


> [snip]
> 
> By the way, what do you think about that Oppo with the HD800's? Such a beautiful amp.


 
  
 I've read several comments from HD800 owners who like the way the HD800 sounds with the OPPO HA-1, using both its ESS9018 DAC and the amp section (which I think is absolutely terrific for planar magnetic headphones), but even when using the Metrum Octave MkII to drive the HA-1's amp, the HD800 still reveals some fatiguing brittleness.  
  
 I attribute this brittleness to the OPPO HA-1's use of negative feedback - admittedly because Cees Ruijtenberg (the designer at Metrum) made a compelling argument for using low feedback or zero-feedback amplifier designs, when I told him how pleased I was with the Octave MkII but that I could still hear an edginess in the HD800 treble.
  
 Most tube amps are low-feedback designs - which could explain why even neutral sounding tube amps lack the brittleness that the HD800 can so readily reveal - like the OTL Schiit Valhalla 2 (which is not not dark in the treble, nor in the least bit euphonic in a syrupy way).  These inherently low feedback tube amps lack the brittleness that the HD800 can hear in solid state amps with multiple gain stages where lots of feedback is typically applied to control distortion.  
  
 As Nelson Pass explains in his white paper on the use of negative feedback, it can indeed reduce measurable distortion, but in doing so, negative feedback can create artifacts of its own that increase the *complexity* of the remaining distortion.  My LCD-2 rev.1 is insufficiently resolving to reveal this complex, though low-intensity distortion caused by the use of negative feedback in the OPPO HA-1 and in my DACmini CX, for example, but the highly resolving HD800 can reveal it, readily.  My Metrum Octave MkII has eliminated the sterility and SABRE sheen (artificial brightness) I was hearing with the OPPO HA-1's ESS9018 DAC and the HD800, but I much prefer using my LCD-2 rev.1 with the OPPO HA-1, to using the HD800, because my LCD-2, with its shelved highs and less resolving planar magnetic drivers, isn't revealing the brittleness that I can still hear with the HD800.
  
 So, I'm still researching low-feedback and zero-feedback solid state amps (as I'm trying to avoid tube rolling).  The Audio-gd Master 9 and their new C-2 Class A are both zero-feedback designs.  The Master 9 (not suprirsingly?) has a terrific reputation with the HD800, but I'm trying to see if I can find something less expensive -and- the jury is still out on the C-2 Class A.  I'm also considering the Metrum Aurix - the Cees Ruijtenberg zero-feedback amp that uses nothing but two transformers for gain (similar to a couple of Nelson Pass's First Watt designs.)  
  
 And I'm currently evaluating the very affordable ($350) NuForce HA-200 single-ended Class A amp, which has only been in my possession for 3.5 days, but I can already say it's far nicer with the HD800 than either the OPPO HA-1's amp or the DACmini CX amp.  The HA-200 uses negative feedback, but I bought it anyway, because of its price and Mike Mercer's review.  
  
 So, despite my having embraced the quest to find an affordable low-feedback or zero-feedback solid state amp, I'm now in possession of an amp (the HA-200) that uses negative feedback but _does not sound brittle_ with the HD800 - premature though that statement is with it still burning in...  But the HA-200 is shaping up to be a great solution for the HD800 and I've not even driven it with the Metrum Octave MkII yet - expressly because I wanted to hear the HA-200's ability to satisfy the HD800's judgement without any help from my NOS DAC. The smoothness and transparency I'm hearing with this $350 HA-200 is not interfering in the least with detail retrieval.  Listen to anything by Vangelis, for example, and the HD800 will hear detail that I cannot hear with the HA-1 or DACmini CX amps - it's readily apparent, too. In my opinion, having done a lot of reading on the impact of using negative feedback in amplifier design, I think the folks at NuForce have managed to tune in just the right amount of feedback with the HA-200 to avoid the brittleness I hear with the OPPO HA-1 and DACmini CX, using the HD800.  More later...
  
 Take all of this with a grain of salt, as I love the frequency response of my LCD-2 rev. 1 and I don't want to hear any brittleness or edginess in the treble. Surely, those people who are content with the OPPO HA-1 for their HD800s have different tastes -or- they've just not been exposed to anything they personally would find better than what they are hearing now.  In other words, you might like the OPPO HA-1 with the HD800 even though I don't.  YMMV.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Mike


----------



## lobwah

Just bit the bullet today and purchased some hd800.
It was the third time is auditioned them.
The first 2 times was through the Lehmann cube head amp. I wasn't impressed with this combo and couldn't bring myself to purchase. It sounded to my ears non-musical and nothing special to me those first 2 sessions.

Today I took along a Chord Hugo and my MacBook and had about an hour listen to some of my fav tracks.
It was a big improvement to my ears. The Hugo/hd800 combo was a very balanced, musical, non fatiguing listen. I enjoyed the presentation and I felt it gave me a peak of how good the hd800 can be. 




my other 2 cans are th900 and t70p.

The th900 is a superb headphone IMO but the bass does seem to encroach on vocals at times. Which I counter with a increase in volume which can lead to fatigue in my experience. 

Anyways these are my initial thoughts and I look forward too seeing how they perform with my home amps when I get them home 

Cheers!


----------



## Dopaminer

lobwah said:


> Just bit the bullet today and purchased some hd800.
> It was the third time is auditioned them.
> The first 2 times was through the Lehmann cube head amp. I wasn't impressed with this combo and couldn't bring myself to purchase. It sounded to my ears non-musical and nothing special to me those first 2 sessions.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would love to hear your HD800  impressions vs TH900, because I`m a huge FOSTEX fan and the 900 is regularly available used here in Tokyo for around 800$US, so I regularly get the urge to bring it home.  
  
 BTW, whether real or not, I definitely perceived a positive sound change in my HD800s around the 100-125 hour mark.  I stopped calculating at 250 hours because I couldn`t notice any more change.    
  
 Enjoy ! 
  
 d


----------



## lobwah

dopaminer said:


> I would love to hear your HD800  impressions vs TH900, because I`m a huge FOSTEX fan and the 900 is regularly available used here in Tokyo for around 800$US, so I regularly get the urge to bring it home.
> 
> BTW, whether real or not, I definitely perceived a positive sound change in my HD800s around the 100-125 hour mark.  I stopped calculating at 250 hours because I couldn`t notice any more change.
> 
> ...


----------



## Zoom25

62ohm said:


> I am actually thinking of getting a speaker system at the moment, but I'm afraid that it would become a new addiction with a whole new target to be achieved and would cost me too much money to pursue..
> 
> The HD800's soundstage would have to make do for now, but I guess it is almost a certainty that I would eventually get a speaker system.


 

 Not to get too off thread, all I'd say is go for a powered active monitor system. Buy active monitors and add a DAC with a pre-amp, like Emotiva DC-1 which has an analog output pre-amp. No need to go for 3 different separates (DAC, Pre-amps, power amps). You'll get better crossover designs and better power handling in active monitor designs and way more value. I initially started out with active designs a long time ago and went to the passive/hifi route for several years. Only in the past year or two I decided to get rid of a lot of my passive gear and go for a active system and it made my life a whole lot easier and cheaper. No worrying about system synergy with amps. Better crossovers, more efficient power use. Best of all - much better value. Most of the major hifi companies are really overpriced for what they are offering in comparison to what you can get in an active monitor (not to mention it even includes an amp!).
  
 If your situation allows for it, go for at least a 8" bass unit, something that will go deep into the 30's. With that you won't miss the bass of HD800. Anything over 1.5k-2k and you'll have gotten into a decent price point where the speakers and amps start offering better value than passive designs...IMO of course.


----------



## Hal X

What do you think about HA-200 vs GP109S to drive HD800s??


----------



## zilch0md

^  I, for one, have never heard any of the Violectric amps...


----------



## koiloco

Just listened to the entire "The Red Violin" album of Ikuko Kawai.  I highly recommend this album for people who like violin/guitar.
HD800 is indeed incredible...





  
  
 Have a great weekend everyone!


----------



## RingingEars

All these fine comments are making it hard to wait for my HD800 to get here. They'll be here next Thursday. I'll be listening to them through my Parasound zdac until my new CSP3 comes in sometime in November.


----------



## MickeyVee

Congrats! The HD800 through the CSP3 should be killer!
  
 Quote:


ringingears said:


>


----------



## pearljam50000

zoom25 said:


> Not to get too off thread, all I'd say is go for a powered active monitor system. Buy active monitors and add a DAC with a pre-amp, like Emotiva DC-1 which has an analog output pre-amp. No need to go for 3 different separates (DAC, Pre-amps, power amps). You'll get better crossover designs and better power handling in active monitor designs and way more value. I initially started out with active designs a long time ago and went to the passive/hifi route for several years. Only in the past year or two I decided to get rid of a lot of my passive gear and go for a active system and it made my life a whole lot easier and cheaper. No worrying about system synergy with amps. Better crossovers, more efficient power use. Best of all - much better value. Most of the major hifi companies are really overpriced for what they are offering in comparison to what you can get in an active monitor (not to mention it even includes an amp!).
> 
> If your situation allows for it, go for at least a 8" bass unit, something that will go deep into the 30's. With that you won't miss the bass of HD800. Anything over 1.5k-2k and you'll have gotten into a decent price point where the speakers and amps start offering better value than passive designs...IMO of course.



Which active monitors do you have?


----------



## Zoom25

HR824 mk1's atm as I'm rarely home so have to use headphones most of the time. Saving for something special when I'm at home more.


----------



## Justin_Time

zilch0md said:


> I've read several comments from HD800 owners who like the way the HD800 sounds with the OPPO HA-1, using both its ESS9018 DAC and the amp section (which I think is absolutely terrific for planar magnetic headphones), but even when using the Metrum Octave MkII to drive the HA-1's amp, the HD800 still reveals some fatiguing brittleness.
> 
> I attribute this brittleness to the OPPO HA-1's use of negative feedback - admittedly because Cees Ruijtenberg (the designer at Metrum) made a compelling argument for using low feedback or zero-feedback amplifier designs, when I told him how pleased I was with the Octave MkII but that I could still hear an edginess in the HD800 treble.
> 
> ...


 
 Mike,
  
 I am with you.  
  
 I know just enough electronics to be dangerous so I will not comment on negative feedback.  All I can say is that most great amp/preamp designers through the 80s and 90s  strove to minimize or eliminate it.  
  
 Back to the sound, I too find the combination Oppo HA-1/HD800 less than satisfactory.  I received more than my share of nasty-mails chastising me for daring not to like the Oppo HA-1.
  
 I have had the Oppo for almost a year now and my opinion of it hasn't changed an iota.  With the Oppo, the HD800's sound has a slight hardness and brightness in the treble that is fatiguing in prolonged listening.  No amount of tinkering with the HD800 itself could eliminate this annoying coloration.   BTW, it is worse with Oppo's DAC so I think the SABRE chips have something to do with it.
  
 I also agree with you regarding the combination Oppo/LCD2.  The slight brightness of the HA-1 is exactly what the doctor ordered for the LCD2,   To me, when I do not hear the hardness and brightness in the sound of the HD800 with the GS-X Mk2, Bakoon HPA-21, Woo WA5, EAR HP4, Vioelectric 200, RWA Corvina/Bellina, MAD Ear+ HD, it is pretty easy for me to conclude that the problem is with the Oppo HA-1.
  
 Finally I would like to hear your comments on EQ.  In the good old days of parametric equalizers, we tried to avoid EQ like the plague as they introduced more problems with phase anomalies that are worse than the frequency problems they attempt to correct.  Are the current analog EQs much better and able to eliminate phase distortions?  Or are we doing the EQ in the digital domain now?
 This is an important issue for the HD800 when paired with less than ideal amp and DAC.


----------



## Justin_Time

maxx134 said:


> Yes I agree 100% on that cable is a huge reason why I canceled my hd800 sale and decided to keep it.
> difference was huge improvement almost unreal.
> here is how I would do the anax mod..
> Mod it partially(not whole mod) to keep the Soundstage :
> ...


 
 Excellent observation.  Thank you for sharing!
  
 I strongly agree with your point #2.  I used to think that being so efficient, the HD800 does not need more power from the Balanced Output.  I was wrong.  Using the HD800 with XLR connectors on the Woo WA5 (K1K) or GS-X Mk2 was a revelation. 
  
 I found just the opposite results from your point #3.  To digress, Litz wires allow more surface area to bulk-conductor ratio and equal time on the outside of the cable bundle for all wires in the Litz arrangement, thus ensuring more high-frequency signals, which travel preferentially through the skin of the wires and through the external wires in the bundle.  More high-frequency signals is not what we need for the HD800.  I found that the best cable to my ear for the HD800 was the Copper Venom from Toxic Cable using very large, rectangular wires (thus less surface area to volume ratio) made of cryogenically-treated OCC copper wires (fewer crystal boundaries). The Copper Venom cable produces very smooth mid-range, high-impact bass, and smooth treble free of hardness and sibilance. The depth of the sound-stage also improves. I arrived at this happy conclusion after an exhaustive (and expensive) trial and error through a very large number of cables (from copper to silver with everything in between).  If interested, you may find my very long post on matching cable and headphone below:
  
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/729976/matching-headphones-cables-amplifiers-harder-than-it-should-be-very-long-post
  
 Again, I really enjoy reading your discussion about negative feedback.


----------



## thune

zilch0md said:


> As Nelson Pass explains in his white paper on the use of negative feedback, it can indeed reduce measurable distortion, but in doing so, negative feedback can create artifacts of its own that increase the *complexity* of the remaining distortion.


 
 For understanding how feedback affects distortion, I'd also recommend reading Bruno Putzey's article (pdf). He shows how, for increasing feedback, the relative distortion spectrum transitions from the distortion of the open-loop transfer-function to the distortion of the_ inverse_ of the open-loop transfer-function. The implication is that this spectrum will be different for devices with different transfer characteristics (triodes vs pentode/jfet vs composite circuits of different architectures). The other takeaway: since the amount of feedback usually reduces as the frequency goes up, the distortion character is different at different frequencies. Putzey's solution is _more _feedback. I believe he's stated that his Mola-Mola preamp uses custom discrete op-amps with >100dB feedback at 20kHz (using a high order loop gain), which will pretty much eliminate all audio band distortion (and improve PSRR). I have no idea if it sounds any good.


----------



## zilch0md

Hey Justin!
  
  
 Quote:


justin_time said:


> [snip]
> 
> Back to the sound, I too find the combination Oppo HA-1/HD800 less than satisfactory.
> 
> [snip]


 
  
 It would be great if any given DAC and amp could be the one-size-fits all solution for every headphone in our individual inventories, but that's just an unrealistic expectation. Even now, with the Metrum Octave MkII and NuForce HA-200 giving me the most satisfaction I've had to date with the HD800, the fact remains that the raw power of the OPPO HA-1 makes my LCD-2 come to life like no other amp I've owned. (Audeze recommends a minimum of 1000 mW for a reason.)  
  
 And then there are all the bells and whistles of the OPPO HA-1 that can't be discounted. I really enjoy donning my LCD-2s, kicking back in my recliner, and using the HA-1's remote control app on my iPad Mini, while streaming from various WiFi services to the HA-1's Bluetooth input - exploring new artists and such with Spotify, Pandora, Amazon Music, etc.  You just can't do that with most headphone amps.  And the OPPO HA-1 > LCD-2 combo is the perfect solution for listening to just about anything in my library - good recordings and bad.  
  
 But if I want to enjoy all the traits the HD800 offers that the LCD-2 lacks, I've learned the hard way that I have to earn its respect, so to speak, by giving it exactly what it wants in the way of signal quality - which for my tastes and what I want to accomplish with the HD800, means using a different chain.
  


> Originally Posted by *Justin_Time* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> [snip]
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, for my tastes, and apparently yours, the OPPO's amp is much more compatible with the HD800 than is its ESS9018 DAC, but as you say, that SABRE brightness is great with the LCD-2, and plenty of other headphones, I'm sure, including the PM-1/PM-2.  
  


justin_time said:


> [snip]
> 
> Finally I would like to hear your comments on EQ.  In the good old days of parametric equalizers, we tried to avoid EQ like the plague as they introduced more problems with phase anomalies that are worse than the frequency problems they attempt to correct.  Are the current analog EQs much better and able to eliminate phase distortions?  Or are we doing the EQ in the digital domain now?
> This is an important issue for the HD800 when paired with less than ideal amp and DAC.


 
  
 The truth is that I've been pretty dogmatic about not using EQ software, probably to my own detriment, because I've personally never heard an EQ that didn't introduce distortion, both when playing pure sine waves, as a quick test, and when playing music.  But I've recently received some strong recommendations to try Equalizer APO (free) and iZotope Ozone 5 (not free).  But, as I've posted recently, I'm trying to avoid using a laptop or PC as my source - because it distracts me from really getting into my music.  If I had more self-control it wouldn't be a problem - I could just close my eyes and groove, right?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Mike


----------



## zilch0md

Hi thune,
  
 Quote:


thune said:


> For understanding how feedback affects distortion, I'd also recommend reading Bruno Putzey's article (pdf). He shows how, for increasing feedback, the relative distortion spectrum transitions from the distortion of the open-loop transfer-function to the distortion of the_ inverse_ of the open-loop transfer-function. The implication is that this spectrum will be different for devices with different transfer characteristics (triodes vs pentode/jfet vs composite circuits of different architectures). The other takeaway: since the amount of feedback usually reduces as the frequency goes up, the distortion character is different at different frequencies. Putzey's solution is _more _feedback. I believe he's stated that his Mola-Mola preamp uses custom discrete op-amps with >100dB feedback at 20kHz (using a high order loop gain), which will pretty much eliminate all audio band distortion (and improve PSRR). I have no idea if it sounds any good.


 
  
  
 Thanks for that link.  I haven't read it yet, but I'm koo-koo to learn about feedback lately, so that's a welcome find.  
  
 Using feedback in amplifier design sure seems to be a controversial subject - with that article saying, "There's no such thing as too much feedback," while Dan Cheever's 1989 master's thesis includes this statement in its conclusion"
  


> The plusses far outweigh the minuses and I am convinced that zero-feedback single-ended designs will continue to become more widespread.


 
  




  
 I think they became less widespread, but might now be enjoying a resurgence. Someone else could probably chronicle the trends a lot better than I can.
  
 (Is there anything new under the sun?)
  
 Mike


----------



## spurxiii

I've been listening to my HD800s exclusively since I got them late last week and just put on my HE500s for the first time to have a listen just now, I was floored. The HD800s make the HE500s sound so closed and almost claustrophobic in comparison. Secondly, after getting used to the HD800s sound, I didn't realise how much detail just gets smoothed over and hidden in the sound from the HE500s. I'm not talking about just a little detail, it is a lot of information that's not coming through. An analogy would be like watching an older 480 line TV, something we've always seen, then seeing a HDTV for the first time and being amazed. Now getting used to the HDTV and go back and try and watch the older TV again, and its almost unwatchable. (Note: I'm only listening to some acoustic and vocal tracks which I can enjoy with the HD800s without ear bleeding).


----------



## whirlwind

spurxiii said:


> I've been listening to my HD800s exclusively since I got them late last week and just put on my HE500s for the first time to have a listen just now, I was floored. The HD800s make the HE500s sound so closed and almost claustrophobic in comparison. Secondly, after getting used to the HD800s sound, I didn't realise how much detail just gets smoothed over and hidden in the sound from the HE500s. I'm not talking about just a little detail, it is a lot of information that's not coming through. An analogy would be like watching an older 480 line TV, something we've always seen, then seeing a HDTV for the first time and being amazed. Now getting used to the HDTV and go back and try and watch the older TV again, and its almost unwatchable. (Note: I'm only listening to some acoustic and vocal tracks which I can enjoy with the HD800s without ear bleeding).


 
 +1
  
 I have experenced the exact same thing that you describe...the hd 800 is making it hard to listen to any mid fi phones for me...they feel very narrow and lacking detail in a big way


----------



## zilch0md

@spurxiii and @whirlwind
  
 It's great seeing the excitement you share as newcomers to this great headphone. Your enthusiasm rejuvenates my own commitment to the HD800.  
  
 Thanks!


----------



## zilch0md

thune said:


> For understanding how feedback affects distortion, I'd also recommend reading Bruno Putzey's article (pdf). He shows how, for increasing feedback, the relative distortion spectrum transitions from the distortion of the open-loop transfer-function to the distortion of the_ inverse_ of the open-loop transfer-function. The implication is that this spectrum will be different for devices with different transfer characteristics (triodes vs pentode/jfet vs composite circuits of different architectures). The other takeaway: since the amount of feedback usually reduces as the frequency goes up, the distortion character is different at different frequencies. Putzey's solution is _more _feedback. I believe he's stated that his Mola-Mola preamp uses custom discrete op-amps with >100dB feedback at 20kHz (using a high order loop gain), which will pretty much eliminate all audio band distortion (and improve PSRR). I have no idea if it sounds any good.


 
  
 Having read his article twice, I can now understand your post.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Putzey is very strongly in the feedback-is-good camp. I wish he had overtly defended himself against the positions taken by Nelson Pass, Cees Ruijtenberg, and Dan Cheever (among many others, no doubt.)  In Part 2 of his article, he writes...
  


> Only in audio does the usefulness of feedback draw heated debate, with detractors saying that reasonably good measured performance obtained without feedback sounds better than excellent performance obtained with feedback.


 
  
 But he doesn't really show any awareness of Nelson Pass' argument (paraphrasing, here) that the "natural" distortion suffered with a single-stage (low gain), single-ended Class A amplifier might be audibly preferable to _the more complex (noisy), synthetic distortion that's created by applying lots of feedback_ - a residual, feedback-created distortion that admittedly resides at very low levels - below the level of feedback applied - where lots of "nuance" data might reside - data that can greatly help to accurately convey timbre, imaging, and sound stage - the stuff of realism, basically.  Then again, if we're talking about >100dB of feedback at 20kHz, for example, maybe he's onto something - pushing the throttle higher rather than pulling it back, as who can hear any corrupted "nuance" data that resides 100dB below the peaks?  Without hearing any of his amps, I'm open to the possibility that they could sound as good as they measure.  His article is so compelling, I'm convinced I only want amps that either have lots of feedback or no feedback (in single-stage designs) - it's the amps that only use a modest amount of feedback that need to be avoided.


----------



## Priidik

> His article is so compelling, I'm convinced I only want amps that either have lots of feedback or no feedback (in single-stage designs) - it's the amps that only use a modest amount of feedback that need to be avoided.


 
 And still most top flight tube amps use modest amount of neg feedback (of some sort), to maintain linearity.


----------



## Justin_Time

> The truth is that I've been pretty dogmatic about not using EQ software, probably to my own detriment, because I've personally never heard an EQ that didn't introduce distortion, both when playing pure sine waves, as a quick test, and when playing music.  But I've recently received some strong recommendations to try Equalizer APO (free) and iZotope Ozone 5 (not free).  But, as I've posted recently, I'm trying to avoid using a laptop or PC as my source - because it distracts me from really getting into my music.  If I had more self-control it wouldn't be a problem - I could just close my eyes and groove, right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Mike,
  
 Even an old dog can learn new tricks:  I will approach EQ with equal measure of trepidation and caution--there is half a pun somewhere in there.
  
 Our ears are extremely sensitive to phase differences.  That is how we are capable of hearing in 3-D and pinpoint sound location with only milliseconds of difference in arrival time.
  
 The old parametric equalizers introduced gross phase anomalies due to the multiple sharp filters used to separate frequency bands.  Has that been changed?  I hope to investigate EQ in the digital domain as well.
  
 I have reached the ultimate that I can do with physically modifying the HD800.  But I feel it is capable of even more improvement.  EQ here I come!


----------



## cooperpwc

justin_time said:


> Mike,
> 
> Even an old dog can learn new tricks:  I will approach EQ with equal measure of trepidation and caution--there is half a pun somewhere in there.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great!
  
 If you or others use Ozone 5, it would be cool to share EQ profiles. They are tiny XML files (a few kb each).
  
 This is my current favourite for the HD800 (unmodded) with my GS-X mk2: "T6K 2.4db", denoting a maximum reduction of treble of 2.4 db centred on 6 Khz.
  
http://1drv.ms/1svILXV


----------



## Justin_Time

> But he doesn't really show any awareness of Nelson Pass' argument (paraphrasing, here) that the "natural" distortion suffered with a single-stage (low gain), single-ended Class A amplifier might be audibly preferable to _the more complex (noisy), synthetic distortion that's created by applying lots of feedback_ - a residual, feedback-created distortion that admittedly resides at very low levels - below the level of feedback applied - where lots of "nuance" data might reside - data that can greatly help to accurately convey timbre, imaging, and sound stage - the stuff of realism, basically.  Then again, if we're talking about >100dB of feedback at 20kHz, for example, maybe he's onto something - pushing the throttle higher rather than pulling it back, as who can hear any corrupted "nuance" data that resides 100dB below the peaks?  Without hearing any of his amps, I'm open to the possibility that they could sound as good as they measure.  His article is so compelling, I'm convinced I only want amps that either have lots of feedback or no feedback (in single-stage designs) - it's the amps that only use a modest amount of feedback that need to be avoided.


 
  
 From a non-dogmatic viewpoint and based on  experience, I am firmly on Nelson Pass's camp.
  
 After nearly 40 years in High-End Audio, the best sounding amps have consistently been low-power, class-A designs based on a few gain devices (transistors or tube) with minimal to no negative feedback. Such designs are always simpler than those for higher-power amps.
  
 We are lucky that our favorite HP is the HD800, which is sensitive enough not to require massive power--i.e. class AB amps.  Thus, there are quite a few choices of modestly powered, class-A amps (SS or tube) that are capable of driving the HD800 to a very satisfactory performance. Folks who like the HE-6 are not quite so lucky. Some seek high-powered "speaker" amp to provide enough juice to feed the monster.  Unfortunately, such amps are generally operating in class AB and use complex design topology and negative feedback to achieve the high power and low distortion.  This large power comes at a big price in sound quality.  
  
 Nearly all HPs including the HE-6 use only a fraction of a watt for the majority of the music at comfortable listening level.  As someone said once--it could be Dick Olsher--and I paraphrase:  I do not care what the next 500 watts sound like, if the first watt sounds like crap.  
  
 As the HD800 has tremendous resolution and clarity (possibly the best with the exception of the Stax 007/009), modestly powered, class A amps with minimalist design are not a luxury, but a must for serious listeners.


----------



## Taowolf51

zilch0md said:


> I've read several comments from HD800 owners who like the way the HD800 sounds with the OPPO HA-1, using both its ESS9018 DAC and the amp section (which I think is absolutely terrific for planar magnetic headphones), but even when using the Metrum Octave MkII to drive the HA-1's amp, the HD800 still reveals some fatiguing brittleness.
> 
> I attribute this brittleness to the OPPO HA-1's use of negative feedback - admittedly because Cees Ruijtenberg (the designer at Metrum) made a compelling argument for using low feedback or zero-feedback amplifier designs, when I told him how pleased I was with the Octave MkII but that I could still hear an edginess in the HD800 treble.
> 
> ...



 

Very interesting writeup, thank you! I read the Pass white paper you mentioned and I'm happy to say I learned a few things from it. 
I think it's an interesting argument, the more, but more pleasurable distortion versus less but more offensive distortion. I'd be very interested to read more on arguments from both sides about this. Of course, this most likely is just a preference thing like most everything else in audio. I'm wondering how much feedback my current amp uses (M-Stage). Considering the very low distortion numbers, I would guess a fair bit. I'm planning on picking up a tube amp to complement it now that I've found a high impedance headphone I like, I've been strongly leaning towards the Valhalla 2 for awhile now.




justin_time said:


> Mike,
> 
> Even an old dog can learn new tricks:  I will approach EQ with equal measure of trepidation and caution--there is half a pun somewhere in there.
> 
> ...



 


Well, when it comes to digital domain EQ's, think about this; the overwhelming majority of the music you listen to (if not all of it) probably has multiple digital EQ's applied to it already (during mastering).

Of course, there are also some awful digital EQ's out there (most stock multi-band EQ's). They actually scared me away from EQing for years until I decided to try a good quality one (I chose Equalizer APO, though I'd love to find a more user-friendly one).


----------



## atmospheric

just recently picked up some sennheiser HD800s, serial #25207. while the treble can be a bit much sometimes -- definitely not my go to headphones for EDM --  I haven't experienced the sibilance that everyone speaks about it, even in EDM.  im mesmerized by the imaging capability.


----------



## spurxiii

atmospheric said:


> just recently picked up some sennheiser HD800s, serial #25207. while the treble can be a bit much sometimes -- definitely not my go to headphones for EDM --  I haven't experienced the sibilance that everyone speaks about it, even in EDM.  im mesmerized by the imaging capability.




I don't think its sibilance I'm hearing. It's just fatiguing after a while which I haven't really experienced before. 

They aren't the best for EDM, I have other cans for that but they've made me listen and enjoy my other music so much more now. Maybe I'm getting a little over excited and my brain can't process it yet because I've never heard this much detail before. It's a whole new world


----------



## Justin_Time

spurxiii said:


> I don't think its sibilance I'm hearing. It's just fatiguing after a while which I haven't really experienced before.
> 
> They aren't the best for EDM, I have other cans for that but they've made me listen and enjoy my other music so much more now. Maybe I'm getting a little over excited and my brain can't process it yet because I've never heard this much detail before. It's a whole new world


 
 Welcome to the HD800 world where everything is presented in ruthlessly high resolution ad clarity!
  
 Depending on your system (DAC/Amp/Cable) you may hear hardness/stridency--that's the main source of fatigue in prolonged listening--as well as sibilance.
  
 It is the inevitable outcome of the design decision that Sennheiser made:  ultra=high resolution and clarity that reveal the real sound of the components in your system, warts and all.  Other designs take the safer road where the sins in the system are covered up by judiciously selected coloration.  
  
 I arrive at this conclusion after mixing and matching several DAC, over a twenty amplifiers and two dozen pairs of headphones.  With the right DAC and amps, that fatiguing sound that you hear through the HD800 will disappear, replaced by gloriously beautiful sound rich with details and nuances. Unfortunately, this is an expensive undertaking.
  
 There are less expensive ways to reduce the HD800 tendency toward fatiguing sound (hardness and sibilance).  You can check this forum for the Anaxilus modification and a more recent version of that plus additional changes to the areas around drivers inside the ear-cups.  They are easy to do and will cost you just a few bucks.
  
 Once again, welcome to the HD800 community where everything is clearly revealed in bright light.


----------



## atmospheric

my listening experience hasn't been fatiguing either, even after several hours of wearing them.  i have a "modest" audio chain listed in my signature, maybe it's the tube in my schiit rounding out the sibilance.


----------



## preproman

> Originally Posted by *Justin_Time* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> As someone said once--it could be Dick Olsher--and I paraphrase:  I do not care what the next 500 watts sound like, if the first watt sounds like crap.


 
  
 +1  So true..  First Watt


----------



## MattTCG

Today I got together with a few of the boys for a quick meet. Most of the stuff there was typical fare....good stuff but things that I'd heard before. What I was not prepared for was the hd800 with the Bakoon HPA-01. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  We all tend to agree that the hd800 is the modern day Chameleon of hp's. But honestly, this pairing was with one of the most transforming of my entire head fi experience. 
  
 I really like the hd800 on the Valhalla 2 and feel that this amp is the bargain king for the 800. The Bakoon is about 5x as expensive but I was stunned at the performance. The treble was tamed but still extended. Mids and staging were about the same with no noticeable changes. The real change was in the sub bass and overall warmth of the 800. The sub bass just kicked like an angry mule. I had no idea that the 800 had that kind of visceral sub bass potential. 
  
 I you get a chance to hear this amp with the  800, please do. Thanks for the opportunity Frank!!


----------



## kothganesh

Matt,

Is there a SATRI connection on the Bakoon and did you use that to connect the 800?

Thanks


----------



## MattTCG

Honestly I don't know much about the amp. I had never heard of it until today. There were two jack on the front, the left was better than the one on right.


----------



## Anavel0

matttcg said:


> Honestly I don't know much about the amp. I had never heard of it until today. There were two jack on the front, the left was better than the one on right.


One is for voltage loving headphones and the other is for current loving headphones.


----------



## Justin_Time

matttcg said:


> Honestly I don't know much about the amp. I had never heard of it until today. There were two jack on the front, the left was better than the one on right.


 
 The Bakoon has two types of output:
  
 1, Voltage output. (left plug).  Single gain stage
  
 2. Current Output (right plug):  Low-Gain setting for high-sensitivity HP and High-Gain setting for low-sensitivity/high impedance  HPs.
  
 The Bakoon HPA-21 has a unique sound signature:  a warm mid-range and vivid details. It  is one of the best amps I found for the HD800:  a match made in heaven.


----------



## MattTCG

justin_time said:


> The Bakoon has two types of output:
> 
> 1, Voltage output. (left plug).  Single gain stage
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would agree with your assessment.


----------



## zilch0md

justin_time said:


> With the best DAC and amps, that fatiguing sound that you hear through the HD800 will disappear, replaced by gloriously beautiful sound rich with details and nuances. Unfortunately, this is an expensive undertaking.




I'm beginning to feel as if I have finally got myself a good great solution for the HD800 with this chain:


Fiio X5 (Coaxial Out) powered by an Anker Astro Pro3 10,000 mAh Li-Ion battery pack
http://www.amazon.com/X5-Resolution-Lossless-Music-Player/dp/B00I4Q9S32
http://www.amazon.com/15000mAh-Portable-Ultra-High-External-Motorola/dp/B00D5T3QK4



Metrum Acoustics Octave MkII
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metrum-Acoustics-Octave-MkII-NOS-Mini-24bit-192-DAC-Great-non-fatiguing-sound-/131202743655?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item1e8c4afd67



NuForce HA-200 Single-Ended Class A amp
http://www.amazon.com/HA-200-Performance-Headphone-Amplifier-Silver/dp/B00FZFHQ9S/



My final HD800 mod - a ring of very thin, self-adhesive felt covering only the flat, reflective, metal ring that surrounds the drivers.


----------



## koiloco

matttcg said:


> Today I got together with a few of the boys for a quick meet. Most of the stuff there was typical fare....good stuff but things that I'd heard before. What I was not prepared for was the hd800 with the *Bakoon HPA-01*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I recently had an opportunity to hear my HD800 with the *Bakoon HPA-01* too.  My impression was opposite of yours.  I wasn't impressed and didn't think it was a good pairing with HD800 at all.
 However with HE500, it was an ear opening experience.


----------



## Currawong

@zilch0md How did you get perfectly cut foam rings for the HD-800s?


----------



## zilch0md

Hi Currawong,
  


currawong said:


> @zilch0md How did you get perfectly cut foam rings for the HD-800s?


 
  
 First, I took very careful measurements with a cheap plastic caliper.
  


Spoiler: Like the one shown in this picture...






  
 Again, *the dimensions of my felt ring are 70mm (2-3/4 in.) outside diameter and 54mm (2-1/8-in.) inside diameter. * 
  
 Then I fortuitously found two different pieces of glassware that were (almost) perfectly round and had the exact diameters I needed (one for the outside diameter and the other for the inside diameter) - but there are other ways to draw a near perfect circle...
  
 Starting with the larger diameter piece of glassware, I used a fine-point marker to trace around its base - onto the removable white paper backing of the felt.  Then I centered the smaller piece of glassware inside the circle I had just drawn and traced the inner circle.  
  
 Then I just used a very high quality pair of Scotch brand scissors that can cleanly cut through that felt much more cleanly than I was doing when I first attempted it with a fresh snap-blade knife.  
  


Spoiler: Picture of Scotch Precision Ultra-Edge Scissors










  
 So, I just very slowly and carefully followed the line tracing of the outer circle, then used the snap-blade knife and a cutting board to get the inner circle started well enough to insert the scissor blade and finish the job of removing the center.   
  
 To insert the felt ring, I peeled off the backing paper and gently laid the ring in place by hand, then used surgical forceps to position it...
  


Spoiler: Picture of Kelly forceps










  
 I soon learned it's better to grab the felt by the hair, so to speak, when using the forceps, because the adhesive won't let go if you allow the forceps to touch the underside of the ring while positioning it.  
  
 Once I had it sort of tacked down in the correct position all the way around the driver, I reached in with my index finger and pressed firmly all the way around.  The whole thing can be peeled up and repositioned, if necessary.
  
 Then I did all of the above second time for the other driver.
  




  
 Here's the self-adhesive felt I was using - it's very thin - just under one millimeter - almost like a flocking paper used inside telescopes and camera bodies:  
  
A 9x12-inch sheet of Kunin Presto Felt (in the Cocoa Brown color, but it's available in other colors, too).
  
  

  
 Mike


----------



## Currawong

Much thanks for the entire write-up. That is something like what I used -- thin, stick-on felt I found in a craft store. I hadn't thought of finding a glass with similar dimensions for tracing, that is good-thinking indeed.


----------



## zilch0md

Yeah, a thin felt seems to be all that's needed to dampen reflections from that hard metal ring.  Any thicker and it could start to interfere with the driver's "view" of the sidewalls.


----------



## MattTCG

koiloco said:


> I recently had an opportunity to hear my HD800 with the *Bakoon HPA-01* too.  My impression was opposite of yours.  I wasn't impressed and didn't think it was a good pairing with HD800 at all.
> However with HE500, it was an ear opening experience.


 
  
 I think that we might have listening to the same members amp actually. Let me qualify my remarks a bit. When I first listened to the pairing, it was somewhat shocking and I didn't think that I'd like it. It transformed the 800 too much, I thought. But my first few test tracks were from Daft Punk: RAM. And the dac was only an odac. Then I moved to the kind of material that I listen to more often...Jazz, acoustic singer/songwriter stuff, indie/pop and such, I thought it was wonderful. 
  
 The increase in the sub bass may be too much for bass heavy material. ymmv


----------



## spurxiii

I've finally decided I'll give the Master 9 a go after reading the thread. Sounds like a good all rounder since I got a couple of other cans I could also use it with and it seems quite versatile. Its coming in a few days so I can't wait


----------



## zilch0md

^ Whoa! That should do the trick.


----------



## spurxiii

zilch0md said:


> ^ Whoa! That should do the trick.


 
 Geez I hope so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Lol buy one can and it makes you keep shopping up the chain. Now to look for a DAC


----------



## punit

spurxiii said:


> Geez I hope so
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah you need a Bal Dac to exploit the full potential of M9. AGD NFB-7.32 dac pairs well with it, I am using the same combo. Other members have also reported a good pairing with Master 7.


----------



## spurxiii

punit said:


> Yeah you need a Bal Dac to exploit the full potential of M9. AGD NFB-7.32 dac pairs well with it, I am using the same combo. Other members have also reported a good pairing with Master 7.


 
 Lol the setup will be way over my original $2-2.5K budget for the DAC/Amp but OK I'll look. Might have to wait a little bit to replenish the funds


----------



## Dopaminer

spurxiii said:


> I've finally decided I'll give the Master 9 a go after reading the thread. Sounds like a good all rounder since I got a couple of other cans I could also use it with and it seems quite versatile. Its coming in a few days so I can't wait


 
  
 The Master 9 will put 1.25 watts into the HD800 with a balanced cable, according to this review.   
  
 That is definitely one of the amps I am drooling over.  Have you considered one of the A-gd dacs ????


----------



## spurxiii

dopaminer said:


> The Master 9 will put 1.25 watts into the HD800 with a balanced cable, according to this review.
> 
> That is definitely one of the amps I am drooling over.  Have you considered one of the A-gd dacs ????


 
 Yes seriously considering one of them as well


----------



## MattTCG

If anyone is interested in a special price on the hdv800 send me a pm.


----------



## Currawong

The Bakoon current output is designed for headphones with a flat impedance through the entire frequency spectrum, such as planars. Headphones like the HD-800s go from 300 Ohms up to 600 Ohms. Where the impedance peaks, in the mid-bass, you get a frequency response boost. So, basically, the current output of the HPA-01 gives them a bass boost.


----------



## kothganesh

Thank you for the explanation. Does the boost affect any other part of the FR? In other words does the boost come at the expense of a slightly more recessed midrange or treble?


----------



## MattTCG

I heard a slightly more relaxed treble which was positive IMO


----------



## spurxiii

I'm finding I'm a lot less fatigued listening to better recorded and higher bit rate versions of tracks on the HD800s. I really couldn't hear the differences with all other cans I've ever heard but with these the harshness gets reduced by a fair margin. This meant I had a session of listening that was over an hour and was surprised I didn't get that ear bleeding feeling. Only problem is I'm going to have to re-sort all my music, re-rip a lot and just not listen to some via the HD800s (can't help bad recordings)


----------



## zilch0md

spurxiii said:


> I'm finding I'm a lot less fatigued listening to better recorded and higher bit rate versions of tracks on the HD800s. I really couldn't hear the differences with all other cans I've ever heard but with these the harshness gets reduced by a fair margin. This meant I had a session of listening that was over an hour and was surprised I didn't get that ear bleeding feeling. Only problem is I'm going to have to re-sort all my music, re-rip a lot and just not listen to some via the HD800s (can't help bad recordings)




What chain are you using currently?


----------



## spurxiii

zilch0md said:


> What chain are you using currently?


 
 Its crappy atm, but the master 9 (when it comes) together with a better DAC should help. I'm currently just using the NFB.15.32 as a DAC into the Topping TP60 fed from speaker taps. The TP60 is quite detailed in comparison to the NFB15.32 on its own but thers too much noise floor with the HD800s


----------



## zilch0md

That helps me to understand what you're hearing - I thought maybe you'd already gone to something other than the TP60 while waiting for the Master 9. Class D amps can be be bright in themselves, so you've got to look forward to. The playlist will get longer.


----------



## spurxiii

zilch0md said:


> That helps me to understand what you're hearing - I thought maybe you'd already gone to something other than the TP60 while waiting for the Master 9. Class D amps can be be bright in themselves, so you've got to look forward to. The playlist will get longer.




That's great news. I just want to hear the HD800s the way they're meant to sound. From what I read I'm in for a treat


----------



## pearljam50000

I have the GeekOut 720 for DAC/ amp and i can't afford anything better at the moment, how much of the HD800's potential in % am i hearing?


----------



## No_One411

pearljam50000 said:


> I have the GeekOut 720 for DAC/ amp and i can't afford anything better at the moment, how much of the HD800's potential in % am i hearing?


 
 Apart from output power from the amplifier, I'm not sure about other differences between each Geek Out unit. 
  
 With that said, I do have a GO 720 and have been using the DAC, which I find fantastic with the HD800. 
  
 For me, it's better than the ODAC, and nears the performance of the Anedio D2.


----------



## drez

Master 9 should be a winner, I feel definitely potential end game.  I have been hanging onto my M6 for a couple of years now with little temptation to upgrade.  
  
 The ACSS input works well, but depending on the DAC seems to drop the gain a little vs the XLR.  Still may as well take advantage of the lower distortion.  The DAC's are great for the price.


----------



## pearljam50000

no_one411 said:


> Apart from output power from the amplifier, I'm not sure about other differences between each Geek Out unit.
> 
> With that said, I do have a GO 720 and have been using the DAC, which I find fantastic with the HD800.
> 
> For me, it's better than the ODAC, and nears the performance of the Anedio D2.


 
 Do you feel that l the amp in the Geek Out is good enough for the HD800?


----------



## longbowbbs

pearljam50000 said:


> no_one411 said:
> 
> 
> > Apart from output power from the amplifier, I'm not sure about other differences between each Geek Out unit.
> ...


 

 The Geek Out 1000 does a very nice job with the HD800's. I am not sure if the 450 or 720 has enough power to run them as well.


----------



## koiloco

currawong said:


> The Bakoon current output is designed for headphones with a flat impedance through the entire frequency spectrum, such as planars. Headphones like the HD-800s go from 300 Ohms up to 600 Ohms. Where the impedance peaks, in the mid-bass, you get a frequency response boost. So, basically, the current output of the HPA-01 gives them a bass boost.


 
 +1.  Precisely.  The amp also thickens up the overall sound in an unnatural way for me.  Personally, I didn't care much for the pairing.


----------



## No_One411

pearljam50000 said:


> Do you feel that l the amp in the Geek Out is good enough for the HD800?


 
 Hmmm, I've mostly been using it for its DAC section, which I find pretty amazing. 
  
 Big reason why I'm not using it straight out of the GO is because my HD800 is terminated in 1/4" and I really really don't like using adapters. No real reason outside of structural integrity. 
  
 For what it's worth, I find that the GO 720 has a ton of power. Probably a lot more than I will need to use. I also listen to music at lower volumes than most people, 
  


longbowbbs said:


> The Geek Out 1000 does a very nice job with the HD800's. I am not sure if the 450 or 720 has enough power to run them as well.


 
 I know the GO 450 does very well with the HD600/HD650. I was satisfied with the 720 and the HD800, not amazed, but wasn't disappointed either. Treble did have some bite to it, but the Anax mod does help a slight bit. 
  
 I mostly listen to the HD800 out of the Vali, which is amazing with the HD800 for the price. The GO DAC does a great job with it as well.


----------



## kothganesh

pearljam50000 said:


> Do you feel that l the amp in the Geek Out is good enough for the HD800?


 

 IME yes. But I use the GO 720.


----------



## oculus

I am running the HD800 with the Audio-gd Reference 10.32.  A marriage made in heaven in my opinion, having tried a wolfson amp/ dac which does work well with the slightly brighter HD800 sound, but pcm 1704uk dac of the Reference 10.32 is sublime.
 The Ref 10.32 does give a very natural sound.  I do have a nfb-8 (wolfson) linked to my speaker system and this sounds fantastic too .  I think the main improvement with these beastly ampsand dacs is the power regulation, it so damn black a background.  The music literally jumps out of the abyss with no grain or etchiness.
 Its a wonderful experience!  Interestingly I am not running balanced with my HD800 but possible sonic improvements may be possible going this route.  (I have a kit to convert to balanced just need some one to do it for me).
  
 Highly recommended
  
 http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/Reference10/RE10EN.htm


----------



## audiokid

I read some posts in this thread of people comparing the Chord Hugo to the HDVD 800 with the HD800 headphones. 
  
 Has anyone else tried this? Any further verdicts?
  
 I'm considering ordering online a HDVD 800 to compare to my Hugo (and try it with the DAC of the Hugo into the HDVD 800), or try the HDVA 600 with the Hugo. 
  
 Any thoughts here? 
  
 Also, what about the balanced cable? Any good with the aforementioned?
  
 Thanks


----------



## magiccabbage

audiokid said:


> I read some posts in this thread of people comparing the Chord Hugo to the HDVD 800 with the HD800 headphones.
> 
> Has anyone else tried this? Any further verdicts?
> 
> ...


 
 The DAC in the Hugo is far better than the HDVD800. The amp section isn't far off either. Over all I was more impressed by the Hugo and considering its versatility (being portable) you cant go wrong. If you were to upgrade to another amp later it would be even better but you might be happy enough with the Hugo as an all in one.


----------



## kazsud

magiccabbage said:


> The DAC in the Hugo is far better than the HDVD800. The amp section isn't far off either. Over all I was more impressed by the Hugo and considering its versatility (being portable) you cant go wrong. If you were to upgrade to another amp later it would be even better but you might be happy enough with the Hugo as an all in one.




How was the Hugo feeding your Wa2?


----------



## magiccabbage

kazsud said:


> How was the Hugo feeding your Wa2?


 
 Mighty! I really liked the Hugo but I cant wait to get the Yggy and DNA stratus - my mouth is watering at the thought of it!


----------



## holyindian

So, i have almost made up my mind to get the Master 9 amp for the HD800.. i wanted to know do i also need to have a balanced DAC along with this amp, as the Master 9 is a balanced amp? Also, is it recommended to use balanced cables with this amp?
 I recently brought the Bifrost Uber USB gen2 DAC, is it a good match with the Master 9, if not i can always sell it off and get the recommended DAC with this amp.
  
 Please recommend.


----------



## spurxiii

My master 9 is coming but I can't afford the master 7 as yet. I've decided to get the NFB-1 to tide me over, is this a wise move considering the DAC is a sabre and I'm using the Hd800 as my main can?


----------



## preproman

How about the NFB-7?


----------



## drez

Any of the AudioGD balanced DAC's seem to be great value for money, but can't say what the NFB-1 sounds like.  
  
 For a reference though, I can't use HD800 unmodified with my setup - I need some form of Anax mod to tame the treble peak.  Master 9 is pure class A while my Master 6 is A/B for part of the power delivery so maybe this would not be an issue with M9.


----------



## oculus

I think any of the top end balanced audio gd dacs will be good.  Master 7, nfb-7 or nfb-8 will be brilliant with the master 9.  Very subtle differences between the 3 types of DAC.


----------



## spurxiii

preproman said:


> How about the NFB-7?




That's more than twice the price of the NFB1. I think I'll save for the master 7


----------



## nigeljames

drez said:


> Any of the AudioGD balanced DAC's seem to be great value for money, but can't say what the NFB-1 sounds like.
> 
> For a reference though, I can't use HD800 unmodified with my setup - I need some form of Anax mod to tame the treble peak.  Master 9 is pure class A while my Master 6 is A/B for part of the power delivery so maybe this would not be an issue with M9.


 
  
 I doubt if the Master-6 will need to get anywhere near class B driving the HD800's.
  
 I have absolutely no issues with treble peak with my M6/HD800's even with silver cables.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

It's (not so) surprising how much of a difference adjusting the headband makes on the sound. It was good to see the Head-Fi sidebar reminding us/me of that. I tried adjusting, again, but ending up back where I started. Still, good to revisit that.


----------



## spurxiii

My Master 9 is in Sydney and most likely will be delivered tomorrow. Wow Audio Gd want me to test that its OK before I sign off with TNT that its OK


----------



## spurxiii

Can't wait for the Master 9


----------



## spurxiii

I'm really loving the HD800s (when it all works), but also hating it too. When the track is right, it is so so good, like the best thing I've ever heard. But when its bad, its really really bad, like I can't even listen for even 1 minute of the song. I hope the Master 9 can make me like more of my music, because at the moment it's quite limited to well recorded tracks and/or 24 bit stuff.


----------



## spurxiii

I found the biggest SQ improvement in this lol


----------



## icebear

spurxiii said:


> I'm really loving the HD800s (when it all works), but also hating it too. When the track is right, it is so so good, like the best thing I've ever heard. *But when its bad, its really really bad, like I can't even listen for even 1 minute of the song. *I hope the Master 9 can make me like more of my music, because at the moment it's quite limited to well recorded tracks and/or 24 bit stuff.


 
  
 What makes you think that any amp will rectify what has been screwed up at the recording or the mastering level ?
 The detail retrieval with the HD800 is so good that is just lays bare what it wrong in certain sources. If it's 16, 24 or 32 bits doesn't really make it any better or worse for that matter. The 2L label (Norway) are producing state art SQ recordings (repertoire is a matter of taste). There is a statement from their rec. engineer, that the set up and choice of microphones is much more important than everything else down stream. I guess they do know what they are talking about
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 But of course let us know how it works out for you and your favorite music.


----------



## spurxiii

icebear said:


> What makes you think that any amp will rectify what has been screwed up at the recording or the mastering level ?
> The detail retrieval with the HD800 is so good that is just lays bare what it wrong in certain sources. If it's 16, 24 or 32 bits doesn't really make it any better or worse for that matter. The 2L label (Norway) are producing state art SQ recordings (repertoire is a matter of taste). There is a statement from their rec. engineer, that the set up and choice of microphones is much more important than everything else down stream. I guess they do know what they are talking about
> 
> 
> ...


 
 [size=12.7272720336914px]Maybe an amp won't rectifiy the tracks that have been F'ed up at the recording/mastering, but I am finding ATM that quite a few tracks that are better with the higher bit rate tracks. I actually never noticed before because I think cans weren't up to scratch to hear anything else. I didn't think these cans will be so resolving TBH. I've downloaded a few tracks that are 16 bit and 24 bit and couldn't tell a difference previously, but with the HD800s I "think" I feel less ear bleeding, could be just placebo.[/size]


----------



## lobwah

MacBook>Hugo>Bakoon 11r>hd800
Listening to Sam Cooke at the Copa, sounds amazing !


----------



## spurxiii

icebear said:


> What makes you think that any amp will rectify what has been screwed up at the recording or the mastering level ?
> The detail retrieval with the HD800 is so good that is just lays bare what it wrong in certain sources. If it's 16, 24 or 32 bits doesn't really make it any better or worse for that matter. The 2L label (Norway) are producing state art SQ recordings (repertoire is a matter of taste). There is a statement from their rec. engineer, that the set up and choice of microphones is much more important than everything else down stream. I guess they do know what they are talking about
> 
> 
> ...


 
 But if what you say is true then the number tracks that I enjoy won't increase and will be limited to those few tracks that sound good with the HD800s and there is no point in upgrading my amp. Wo is me


----------



## ruthieandjohn

spurxiii said:


> I found the biggest SQ improvement in this lol


 
 Oh, wow... great minds think alike!
  
 I found the same thing... only difference was that mine was a wine BOTTLE, not a wine glass, and I had Emptied it before listening.  Oh, even the worst of tracks then sound so much better!


----------



## BirdManOfCT

spurxiii said:


> But if what you say is true then the number tracks that I enjoy won't increase and will be limited to those few tracks that sound good with the HD800s and there is no point in upgrading my amp. Wo is me


 

 I'm feeling that, too. Getting too analytical again. LOL


----------



## spurxiii

It's arrived. Just checking it works. I already hear improvements, wow


----------



## zilch0md

Looking forward to more from you!


----------



## RingingEars

spurxiii said:


> <snip>
> 
> It's arrived. Just checking it works. I already hear improvements, wow


 
 Congrats spur... Beautiful amp. Looking forward to hearing your impression of it once you've had more time on it.
 My HD800 arrived today. What a stunning headphone. Now I just need my Norne Vanquish cable and CSP3 to arrive...


----------



## spurxiii

Not really an impression but wowsers is this what the HD800s are supposed to sound like? Just listening to the Daft Punk track on RAM, Giorgio (3rd track). I never really noticed before, but you can clearly hear that they're interviewing him in some sort of cafe, there is chatter that you can make out some words that the people around him are saying and I also I hear some clinking of glasses. Its just so detailed, refined, yet also so smooth at the same time. OK I'm going to listen more now. So excited.


----------



## Dopaminer

spurxiii said:


> It's arrived. Just checking it works. I already hear improvements, wow


 
  
 It looks to me like you`ve neglected your day`s tasks and  unboxed the amp right there in the office.  
  
 I see we`re like-minded.


----------



## spurxiii

dopaminer said:


> It looks to me like you`ve neglected your day`s tasks and  unboxed the amp right there in the office.
> 
> I see we`re like-minded.



 

Yes, I had to check that it works. Like you said I can't do much now, I've lost all my concentration for work


----------



## RingingEars

Wow. These headphones are freaking amazing!!! I'm only running them through my Parasound zdac for now, but they sound sooooooo good. Can't wait to hear them on a real amp.
 I see what everyone is saying by them being revealing. So many little nuances I was missing in the music. Playing a little Depeche Mode at the moment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm floored


----------



## Chodi

spurxiii said:


> Not really an impression but wowsers is this what the HD800s are supposed to sound like? Just listening to the Daft Punk track on RAM, Giorgio (3rd track). I never really noticed before, but you can clearly hear that they're interviewing him in some sort of cafe, there is chatter that you can make out some words that the people around him are saying and I also I hear some clinking of glasses. Its just so detailed, refined, yet also so smooth at the same time. OK I'm going to listen more now. So excited.


 
 Glad you are enjoying your new amp. Just to be clear, your are using the dac section in the agd 15.32 and getting those results?


----------



## holyindian

spurxiii said:


> It's arrived. Just checking it works. I already hear improvements, wow




Drool. Pls post impressions. Do these amp require break-ins? 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## spurxiii

chodi said:


> Glad you are enjoying your new amp. Just to be clear, your are using the dac section in the agd 15.32 and getting those results?




No just via the line out of the DX50 at work lol


----------



## White Lotus

I caved, I bought a hardware EQ.
  
 Waiting for it to come in.
  
 I will remove the HD800 treble spike with precision!


----------



## zilch0md

white lotus said:


> I caved, I bought a hardware EQ.
> 
> Waiting for it to come in.
> 
> I will remove the HD800 treble spike with precision!


 
  
 Which one?


----------



## White Lotus

UltraCurve PRO - DEQ2496.
  
 All of my pro audio experience is telling me to stay away from Behringer.. But It's a product I can't resist. I bought it at an unbelievably cheap price, too.


----------



## Hal X

Hey guys tell me if you have similar experiences: regarding positioning, I found that the headphones need the driver hole to be aligned with the auditory canal to give their best. It's incredible how big the difference is for me! My head is medium sized and i used to keep them at three bars. Now i shifted to four and there is a significant reduction in fatigue-actually no fatigue at all now- (upper treble around 11 to 15K felt like resonating with my ears) and a much increased realism! Can't believe it. Seems like good alignment is needed to get the optimal interaction with in ear reflections and resonances. Also I found the frequency range between 5K to 7k not to be fatiguing at all but insted provide a kind of magical diffused soundstaging.


----------



## Priidik

hal x said:


> Also I found the frequency range between 5K to 7k not to be fatiguing at all but insted provide a kind of magical diffused soundstaging.


 
 Diffuse it is. Most agree its the HD800 only real problem, but i can understand it being desireable for some.


----------



## bargyu

Hope this is not to my lack of experience - this is my second post here and I have the HD800 for about a year - I wonder how many would agree that "best amp/dac combos" also depend on the input in terms of music style and recording with the HD800.
  
 I personally found that with music that needs some kind of softening and additional airiness, my tube amp (6SN7 tubes) sounds best with my simple JK Ciunas dac (cheap, but transparent, i am sure there are many better options). Almost whatever type of music - exempt maybe classic music - sounds better with the tube amp. The sound is less harsh and the bass is deeper, vocals are lively etc. However, this is not the case for all quality recordings. Let's say up to about CD quality, this setup is my preferred choice. At this "level" if I listen my other dac/amp combo: the HDVD-800 is harsher, precise, but too precise or analytical etc. and listening music for a long time becomes tiring for my ears. As one review stated the HD800 is probably the F1 car in the headphone world, but not everyone wants to drive an F1 car the whole day in the city.
  
 But! Let's say at 48khz/24bit and above quality, well mastered recordings benefit from the HDVD-800's precision. Sound stage, details, liveliness are all there and at amazing level. So, my poor knowledge suggests that our HD800 precisely reproduces the input and our preference for the "best amd/dac" combo do not just depend on what we hear and how good (and likely expensive) our gear is, but whether we are lucky enough to match our combo with the music recording. So for now, I prefer my two setups, a tube amp (dac upgrade of course is needed here for me, just to spend awful lot of money on about 1% improvement if something at all) for lower quality music and the transistor amp hdvd-800 for high quality recordings. Please disagree.
  
 Best to all HD800 lovers!


----------



## icebear

I guess you have pretty much figured out the HD800, nothing much to disagree from my pov.
 Once you have accepted that certain kind of music is just not made for analytical listening and it's not the HD800 fault to reveal that, then you can have fun with it with better recordings and bathe in the details.
  
 With the other type of music a soft colored tube amp will work like pulling down contrast and clarity in a portrait picture in photoshop. The result is not a mirror of reality but maybe more pleasing.
  
 And another $0.02 :
 The recording technique i.e. choice and positioning of microphones is much more important than the digital resolution of the file -as long as it is not compressed.


----------



## zilch0md

white lotus said:


> UltraCurve PRO - DEQ2496.
> 
> All of my pro audio experience is telling me to stay away from Behringer.. But It's a product I can't resist. I bought it at an unbelievably cheap price, too.


 
  
 Yummy!


----------



## zhenya

bargyu said:


> Hope this is not to my lack of experience - this is my second post here and I have the HD800 for about a year - I wonder how many would agree that "best amp/dac combos" also depend on the input in terms of music style and recording with the HD800.
> 
> I personally found that with music that needs some kind of softening and additional airiness, my tube amp (6SN7 tubes) sounds best with my simple JK Ciunas dac (cheap, but transparent, i am sure there are many better options). Almost whatever type of music - exempt maybe classic music - sounds better with the tube amp. The sound is less harsh and the bass is deeper, vocals are lively etc. However, this is not the case for all quality recordings. Let's say up to about CD quality, this setup is my preferred choice. At this "level" if I listen my other dac/amp combo: the HDVD-800 is harsher, precise, but too precise or analytical etc. and listening music for a long time becomes tiring for my ears. As one review stated the HD800 is probably the F1 car in the headphone world, but not everyone wants to drive an F1 car the whole day in the city.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I generally agree with you - some equipment/music pairings are better with the HD800's than others - as I've said earlier in this thread there are some albums that are just fantastic with the absolute crystal clear detail that my GS-1 amp gives. That said, I have found it to be more dependent on the specific style of music and its recording quality than the quality of the file itself. I have plenty of high-res stuff that still sounds better with my tubes. The GS-1 just never gives that fullness to the mids and the kick to the bass and ends up sounding a bit thin as a result.


----------



## koiloco

zilch0md said:


> Yummy!


 

 I hope _Behringer_ products have improved over the years.  8, 9 years ago, I bought some of their signal processors and they all were noise factories and yes, they were run balanced  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Their mixers are borderline decent for the $ though.


----------



## koiloco

spurxiii said:


> It's arrived. Just checking it works. I already hear improvements, wow


 
 You got to try that amp in balanced!
 Sorry for your wallet...


----------



## spurxiii

koiloco said:


> You got to try that amp in balanced!
> Sorry for your wallet...


 
 Yep I have a Blue Dragon Balanced on the way it should be here next week. My wallets already on fire, this months purchase was supposed to be just the HD800s and was planning on not making any more purchases for a while. But it made me get the amp and now some cables are coming plus I'm also shopping for a DAC for it. It feels like I found a jerry can and bought a car for it lol


----------



## koiloco

spurxiii said:


> Yep I have a Blue Dragon Balanced on the way it should be here next week. My wallets already on fire, this months purchase was supposed to be just the HD800s and was planning on not making any more purchases for a while. But it made me get the amp and now some cables are coming plus I'm also shopping for a DAC for it.* It feels like I found a jerry can and bought a car for it lol*


 

 If it makes you feel any better, rest assured that you are not alone.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 As long as it doesn't screw you up financially, enjoy your hard earned $.  Life is too short.


----------



## spurxiii

koiloco said:


> If it makes you feel any better, rest assured that you are not alone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 No, this is my one and only vice so compared to someone that smokes a pack a day its nothing. I'm by no means rich but its OK. House is paid off, have a few investment properties, kids in decent school so I feel OK. Still feel guilty about spending the $$$ sometimes but you guys help


----------



## Zoom25

How do those Master amps compare to Taurus? Balanced mode specifically.


----------



## White Lotus

I'll let you guys know how the Behringer DEQ goes, after it gets in. It runs fully balanced, has some pretty amazing features.. 
  
 And dat display:


----------



## Dopaminer

bargyu said:


> Hope this is not to my lack of experience - this is my second post here and I have the HD800 for about a year - I wonder how many would agree that "best amp/dac combos" also depend on the input in terms of music style and recording with the HD800.
> 
> I personally found that with music that needs some kind of softening and additional airiness, my tube amp (6SN7 tubes) sounds best with my simple JK Ciunas dac (cheap, but transparent, i am sure there are many better options). Almost whatever type of music - exempt maybe classic music - sounds better with the tube amp. The sound is less harsh and the bass is deeper, vocals are lively etc. However, this is not the case for all quality recordings. Let's say up to about CD quality, this setup is my preferred choice. At this "level" if I listen my other dac/amp combo: the HDVD-800 is harsher, precise, but too precise or analytical etc. and listening music for a long time becomes tiring for my ears. As one review stated the HD800 is probably the F1 car in the headphone world, but not everyone wants to drive an F1 car the whole day in the city.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I like what you wrote; it`s fun to read others` thoughtful reflections.  The only thing I disagree with is the part about DAC improvement being 1% or less.  I`ve jumped around from DAC to DAC, and I can tell you I definitely hear significant differences, especially through the HD800.  Sometimes it`s hard to nail down the difference - it`s so ephemeral, and bias/skepticism often interferes with confidence in my perceptions.  An example of this would be when I compared my current TEAC UD-301 DAC to my previous, 10x more expensive Luxman DA-06.  I struggled for a few days trying to find any sonic justification for keeping the Luxman, and it just wasn`t there.  (I sold it and kept the TEAC).  On the other hand, before this the Luxman DA-06 absolutely obliterated several other options I had at the time I bought it, including my previous TEAC UDH-01 DAC, the 24/96 DAC in my headphone tube amp, and my Denon 1650 SACD player.   So I don`t think you should underestimate the influence of a DAC.  And also don`t focus too much on the price.  
  
 d


----------



## pearljam50000

Had them in the past, thinking of buying another pair, but im worried because they have been out for 5 years(!) now, and i have a feeling something new is around the corner.
Should i wait or just buy them now and be done with it?


----------



## MickeyVee

So, even after 5 years, is there an equal or similar at the same/near price point?  I just got the HE560 and as nice as they are, they are no match for the HD800.  IMO, anything new does not match the technicalities (or fun) of the HD800.  Heard the K812, LCD-3, LCD-X etc. There may be better all rounders but IMHO, the HD800 is still king. 
 YMMV.
  
 Quote:


pearljam50000 said:


> Had them in the past, thinking of buying another pair, but im worried because they have been out for 5 years(!) now, and i have a feeling something new is around the corner.
> Should i wait or just buy them now and be done with it?


----------



## spurxiii

My HD800s now have zero fatigue. I've been listening for hours and feel like I could listen for more. Its amazing what an amp can do to the can


----------



## lin0003

Lol, sounds like you will eventually get a TOTL tube amp.


----------



## spurxiii

lin0003 said:


> Lol, sounds like you will eventually get a TOTL tube amp.


 
 why of course


----------



## spurxiii

lin0003 said:


> Lol, sounds like you will eventually get a TOTL tube amp.


 
 But seriously like you I think once I have the DAC and cables sorted, it'll be a long while before the next serious purchase. I'm extremely happy with HD800s and what it offers and also how versatile that Master 9 amp is, it drives all my cans to almost perfection and also does a stellar job driving my bookshelf speakers as well. I'm using it as a switch between my amp and my speakers. I can't believe it has enough power to drive the speakers via the pre-amp out. I'm no longer running a separate system just for the speakers because this sounds better.


----------



## PleasantSounds

spurxiii said:


> But seriously like you I think once I have the DAC and cables sorted, it'll be a long while before the next serious purchase. I'm extremely happy with HD800s and what it offers and also how versatile that Master 9 amp is, it drives all my cans to almost perfection and also does a stellar job driving my bookshelf speakers as well. I'm using it as a switch between my amp and my speakers. I can't believe it has enough power to drive the speakers via the pre-amp out. I'm no longer running a separate system just for the speakers because this sounds better.


 
  
 Seriously? Driving speakers out of the preamp out? What kind of speakers?


----------



## spurxiii

pleasantsounds said:


> Seriously? Driving speakers out of the preamp out? What kind of speakers?


 
 Just some cheap bookshelves that were part of my pc setup. Yamaha NS333. Seems there's enough power because its pretty loud on 60/100. It sounds much better than the old Pioneer vintage amp had it hooked up to 
  
 The Master 9 specs says: 10V @ RCA which doesn't say much by just stating voltage (or does it?)


----------



## PleasantSounds

spurxiii said:


> Just some cheap bookshelves that were part of my pc setup. Yamaha NS333. Seems there's enough power because its pretty loud on 60/100. It sounds much better than the old Pioneer vintage amp had it hooked up to
> 
> The Master 9 specs says: 10V @ RCA which doesn't say much by just stating voltage (or does it?)


 
  
 I checked and these appear to be passive speakers. Even if this works, I don't think it's a good idea to run them like that. The RCA output is not designed for this kind of load and you are risking causing damage to your new toy. And I wouldn't be surprised if a warranty repair was declined, as you are not using the equipment correctly.


----------



## spurxiii

pleasantsounds said:


> I checked and these appear to be passive speakers. Even if this works, I don't think it's a good idea to run them like that. The RCA output is not designed for this kind of load and you are risking causing damage to your new toy. And I wouldn't be surprised if a warranty repair was declined, as you are not using the equipment correctly.


 
 Best I unplug it then, I might use as intended, as a pre-amp to the power amp then. Such a shame, it sounded so good too


----------



## spurxiii

pleasantsounds said:


> I checked and these appear to be passive speakers. Even if this works, I don't think it's a good idea to run them like that. The RCA output is not designed for this kind of load and you are risking causing damage to your new toy. And I wouldn't be surprised if a warranty repair was declined, as you are not using the equipment correctly.


 
 Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## PleasantSounds

No worries.
 Have you tried at all feeding the signal from Master 9 to your Pioneer amp?
  
 Edit: We're kind of off-topic here, so let's wrap up this quickly


----------



## pearljam50000

Sorry,what i meant was, there might be something new from Sennheiser coming soon, that is better than the HD800(HD900?) for the same price.


----------



## PleasantSounds

pearljam50000 said:


> Sorry,what i meant was, there might be something new from Sennheiser coming soon, that is better than the HD800(HD900?) for the same price.


 
  
 Speculations like that have been appearing here for at least a year, and yet there's still not even a solid rumor about the new Senn flagship.
 Your choice is:
 - enjoy the HD800 right away and consider the upgrade in due time, if it's worth it
 - wait until the new flagship is announced, then until it's actually in production, then until some reputable reviews confirm that it's actually worth getting. That shouldn't be a problem if you have some other decent cans to get you through it....


----------



## Anavel0

And, the way things go in the headphone world, it will cost even more than HD800.


----------



## zhenya

bargyu said:


> Hope this is not to my lack of experience - this is my second post here and I have the HD800 for about a year - I wonder how many would agree that "best amp/dac combos" also depend on the input in terms of music style and recording with the HD800.
> 
> I personally found that with music that needs some kind of softening and additional airiness, my tube amp (6SN7 tubes) sounds best with my simple JK Ciunas dac (cheap, but transparent, i am sure there are many better options). Almost whatever type of music - exempt maybe classic music - sounds better with the tube amp. The sound is less harsh and the bass is deeper, vocals are lively etc. However, this is not the case for all quality recordings. Let's say up to about CD quality, this setup is my preferred choice. At this "level" if I listen my other dac/amp combo: the HDVD-800 is harsher, precise, but too precise or analytical etc. and listening music for a long time becomes tiring for my ears. As one review stated the HD800 is probably the F1 car in the headphone world, but not everyone wants to drive an F1 car the whole day in the city.
> 
> ...




Just some more thoughts on this after listening last night. I have really been prefering my tubes as of late, but last night I put on one of my favorite recent albums, _The Head and the Heart_ which was actually the first time I've listened to it with the HD800's. I wasn't really expecting that it would be recorded particularly well or anything so I think I'd kind of shied away from it because I thought hearing that might turn me off a bit. Well, I was wrong. This is a well recorded album with a wide array of instruments and voices woven together and all on full view through these cans. I was listening to a lossless rip of the cd, so nothing high res. It was perfectly listenable through the Woo, but this album is better with the GS-1 which just gets completely out of the way and allows you to hear every instrument and voice occupying its own space. The Woo is a bit warmer and fuller, but on an album with so many layers a lot of that detail gets smeared together a bit. This is exactly the kind of album that needs a great SS amp. If I go back and look at some of my earlier listening notes, that's exactly what I said at that time as well - the GS-1 excels with classical, well recorded jazz, etc where that precision comes across as air between the instruments and very precise imaging. In poorly recorded, often more mainstream recordings, that detail often doesn't exist so all you end up hearing is the mediocre sound, _very clearly!_ That's where the tubes help things out a bit.

So in general I agree with you except that my threshold would be the quality of the recording and the composition, not the bitrate of the source. There is plenty of high res material where the source was still mediocre!


----------



## cooperpwc

*NVM - still rolling DACs here...


----------



## spurxiii

pleasantsounds said:


> No worries.
> Have you tried at all feeding the signal from Master 9 to your Pioneer amp?
> 
> Edit: We're kind of off-topic here, so let's wrap up this quickly




Yes it doesn't sound as good. I've emailed King wa from AGD to see if it's possible. I plug into my line out with cans and IEMs all the time just to see. Thought it's be the same approach so long as there's enough power and you can adjust volume. Thanks for your help


----------



## Taowolf51

white lotus said:


> I caved, I bought a hardware EQ.
> 
> Waiting for it to come in.
> 
> I will remove the HD800 treble spike with precision!


 
  
 I'm wondering, why not try it with software first to see if you like it? Regardless, I'm interested to hear what you think! The software EQ I use doesn't work on macs, (my transportable setup uses a macbook pro), so a hardware EQ may be a decent alternative.


----------



## White Lotus

taowolf51 said:


> I'm wondering, why not try it with software first to see if you like it? Regardless, I'm interested to hear what you think! The software EQ I use doesn't work on macs, (my transportable setup uses a macbook pro), so a hardware EQ may be a decent alternative.


 
  
 Have done! I like what I hear so far, but I'm yet to use a good system-wide EQ without it's issues. Plus, I'd like to switch between sources, and keep the EQ the same.
  
 The DEQ also has pretty rad saveable options - I'd love to flick between my own EQ presets depending on genre/mood!
  
 I'll keep you updated on how it goes.


----------



## Maxvla

Comparison begins as soon as this sinus pressure is gone. My hearing is fairly impaired at present.


----------



## screwdriver

maxvla said:


> Comparison begins as soon as this sinus pressure is gone. My hearing is fairly impaired at present.


 
 i could sense in the image u posted both amps trash talking to each other ......... LOL.


----------



## lin0003

Wow, looking forward to it!


----------



## Maxvla

screwdriver said:


> i could sense in the image u posted both amps trash talking to each other ......... LOL.



Both? There are 3!


----------



## screwdriver

maxvla said:


> Both? There are 3!


 
 dam i didnt even notice the one under the hd800. loks like the two on both sides are bullying the middle one .


----------



## RingingEars

maxvla said:


> <snip>
> 
> Comparison begins as soon as this sinus pressure is gone. My hearing is fairly impaired at present.


 
 Ohhhhhhh it looks like your going to have a fun next few days


----------



## White Lotus

The black looks amazing on the HD800 mate!


----------



## punit

White Lotus
  
 do you get sharp treble even with La Figaro 339, what tubes are you using ?


----------



## punit

maxvla said:


> Comparison begins as soon as this sinus pressure is gone. My hearing is fairly impaired at present.


 
 If I was in the US would have sent you my M9 for a 4 way shootout.


----------



## White Lotus

punit said:


> White Lotus
> 
> do you get sharp treble even with La Figaro 339, what tubes are you using ?


 
  
 339 helps a lot, even with the RCA 6080 + NOS 6J4P combo I'm using.
  
 But I'd like a precise solid-state alternative!


----------



## punit

Try the Mullard 6080 if you get a chance. It has smooth treble (not veiled) with good clarity.


----------



## White Lotus

punit said:


> Try the Mullard 6080 if you get a chance. It has smooth treble (not veiled) with good clarity.


 
 Will do - thanks for the tip! I'll look into it!
  
 I'll let you guys know how I go with my EQ experiment. 
  
 Only problem is, the La Figaro is the only actual amp I own for the HD800 - usually I would use my Matrix Mini-i PRO as a solid state amp. But if I'm going to use the EQ, it needs to be Mini i -> EQ -> AMP.
  
 So I might look into getting a Matrix Quattro or something else that accepts XLR inputs.


----------



## cooperpwc

Latest Ozone 5 profile for the HD800: "T6K 3.6db". I am finally figuring out how to use this program. This is taking a surgical (but smooth) slice of glare off my HD800's spike centred on 6 Khz and maxing out at 3.6 db.
  
 This is more subtle yet more effective than my early efforts. Cymbals and certain high drum slaps are less jarring. Everything else in the soundstage is essentially untouched.
  

  
 Edit: "T6K 5.0db". Maybe even better? Still playing...
  

  
 One last experiment and a big step in the right direction. "T6K 3.8db". Actually this sounds very good.
  
 (I guess that sound engineers find this eq easy to use. It certainly is powerful.)
  
 That's all for now.


----------



## zilch0md

^

Why is the curve seen in the last screenshot wider and more rounded at 6K than those in the screenshot above it. Are you specifying parameters other than simply the amount of attenuation and the center frequency?

Thanks,

Mike


----------



## preproman

maxvla said:


> Comparison begins as soon as this sinus pressure is gone. My hearing is fairly impaired at present.


 

 Looks like two of them will be going up for sale "maybe".    Looks like the ECP Black Diamond is "SE only"  may or may not be at a disadvantage.


----------



## White Lotus

zilch0md said:


> ^
> 
> Why is the curve seen in the last screenshot wider and more rounded at 6K than those in the screenshot above it. Are you specifying parameters other than simply the amount of attenuation and the center frequency?
> 
> ...


 
  
 He has a higher Q factor, so the bandwidth is a little higher. If there is an option to reduce the "Q", it would be more specific to the frequency he's after.


----------



## cooperpwc

>


 
 Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> ^
> 
> Why is the curve seen in the last screenshot wider and more rounded at 6K than those in the screenshot above it. Are you specifying parameters other than simply the amount of attenuation and the center frequency?
> 
> ...


 
  
  


white lotus said:


> He has a higher Q factor, so the bandwidth is a little higher. If there is an option to reduce the "Q", it would be more specific to the frequency he's after.


 
  
 White Lotus is right about the importance of the Q factors.
  
 To get from the surgical frequency eq to a rounded curve, you first want to activate more eq bands. Those are the numbered spots that you see on the graphs. So for the 3.8db setting, bands 5 and 6 determine the bottom of the curve, and bands 4 and 7 determine the width of the curve rising up to 0db. Note the distance between the band 4 and 7 spots to the actual eq curve; this is not entirely intuitive although I am starting to get a feel for it.
  
 The Q factors are hugely important. You can set them graphically using your mouse's scroll wheel. Here is an example of my current favorite "T6K 3.4db" which is a bit more subtle than what I posted above.
  

  
  
 Here I have selected band 4 so that you can see its Q.
  

  
 And here I have done nothing but adjust band 4's Q:
  

  
 Quite a difference, _n'est pas_?
  
 I would like to say that I can think the process through and set up the bands methodically. In fact, I find that I adjust one band and then have to go back and adjust others to compensate. Everything is connected and I am still making the transition from counter-intuitive to intuitive. But it is fun and not terribly difficult if you enjoy tinkering.
  
 The sound quality of the Ozone 5 eq is very very good.
  
 If you want to download the Ozone 5 demo and play with it, here is my current favorite eq setting "T6K 3.4db". This setting assumes that your HD800 spike is from about 5 Khz to 7 Khz like mine. I think that most of them are; otherwise you can adjust accordingly.
  
 And if you improve on this, please post back!


----------



## Maxvla

preproman said:


> Looks like two of them will be going up for sale "maybe".    Looks like the ECP Black Diamond is "SE only"  may or may not be at a disadvantage.



Based on my earlier comparison of the GS-X and BD, the BD doesn't seem to be at a disadvantage being SE only. Just as some people really like the Zana Duex with HD800s, and that amp is SE only as well.


----------



## kazsud

punit said:


> Try the Mullard 6080 if you get a chance. It has smooth treble (not veiled) with good clarity.




Thanks. I was wondering how they sounded.


----------



## koiloco

maxvla said:


> Based on my earlier comparison of the GS-X and BD, the BD doesn't seem to be at a disadvantage being SE only. Just as some people really like the Zana Duex with HD800s, and that amp is SE only as well.


 
 IMO, if an amp is designed and implemented well, SE is at no disadvantage.  Some people always think that balanced = better for some reasons.


----------



## preproman

maxvla said:


> Based on my earlier comparison of the GS-X and BD, the BD doesn't seem to be at a disadvantage being SE only. Just as some people really like the Zana Duex with HD800s, and that amp is SE only as well.


 

 I know some sound science folks might ask.  Are you going to level match when doing the comparison?


----------



## Maxvla

What's the easiest/cheapest way to do that? I haven't in the past, but with one amp being SE only it is probably a good idea.


----------



## preproman

Get a cheap voltage meter (I guess that's what it is) from Radio Shack.  I usally don't either..


----------



## zilch0md

This is an inexpensive and likely inaccurate SPL meter that nevertheless gives consistent readings and can easily do volume matching while playing a white noise file. Unfortunately, its not very sensitive and appears to be best suited to use at 85dB or higher, no less:




I prefer to use the JL Audio SPL app for iOS, shown here on a Touch with a lapel mic. Again, for the sake of volume-matching, it doesn't matter whether it matches a different SPL meter, nor that it be "accurate" relative to any benchmark.



Mike


----------



## zilch0md

Here are some other iOS apps I just now installed and tested using the mic in my iPad Mini - screenshots were taken with speakers playing in the room:



Decibel 10th



dB Volume



Decibels



dB-Meter



White noise files can be found here: https://archive.org/details/TenMinutesOfWhiteNoisePinkNoiseAndBrownianNoise


----------



## metaldood

How often(?) does one need to change the earpads on the 800s? 2-3 years or do they last a long time with proper care?


----------



## zilch0md

Here's a really nice one I just found:

Sound Level Meter dB


https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sound-level-meter-db/id893974114?mt=8


----------



## OJNeg

Level matching is easy to do by ear once you get a handle on things. I find I'm able to consistently get within .2dB with a 1k test tone. Verified this with my headphone coupler/mic setup.
  
 Only downside is that if you want to switch between a lot of different music that's mastered at different levels, you're going to want to change the volume and you won't be certain if it's precisely matched until you run tones through it again.


----------



## Priidik

metaldood said:


> How often(?) does one need to change the earpads on the 800s? 2-3 years or do they last a long time with proper care?


 
 It depends on personal hygiene. Good thing is that the earpads can be washed with soap, so i expect mine to last a lot longer than 3 years.


----------



## LargoCantabile

This most recent of a wonderful set of 9 Cds by Matthias Goerne of Schubert Lieder provided an interesting test of HD800. I can actually hear the singer moving slightly at times form one side to the other and provides a wonderful rendering of his resonant baritone...ie bass capabilities of the HD800.


----------



## ogodei

ojneg said:


> Level matching is easy to do by ear once you get a handle on things. I find I'm able to consistently get within .2dB with a 1k test tone. Verified this with my headphone coupler/mic setup.
> 
> *Only downside is that if you want to switch between a lot of different music that's mastered at different levels, you're going to want to change the volume and you won't be certain if it's precisely matched until you run tones through it again*.


 
  
 You can use external attenuation prior to the amps to do this.  Level match with the amps at higher volume, use the attenuator to adjust the volume up and down for your tests.  A balanced solution for this (cause you know you have to test these amps balanced) can be found here. Ugly as sin but passive, relatively inexpensive, and works well. 
  
 As for an SPL meter, the traditional Rat Shack 33-2055 meter gets the job done and can be had for $10 on ebay these days.  All you need to do is match levels so pretty much any meter will work.


----------



## nephilim32

zoom25 said:


> If soundstage is absolutely the most important thing to you, then might as well as look at speakers that best fit your situation.




Or this. 

http://thesubpac.com/order/subpac-s1/


----------



## TooPoor

Hey guys, super quick/easy question: Did a search, didn't come up with anything of substance.
  
 How would the HD800 pair with my AudioGD 10.33 (dual Wolfson chips + 1.15W@300ohm) ??


----------



## zilch0md

nephilim32 said:


> Or this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Do they make that in a jump suit?   I want that action from wrists to ankles.


----------



## nephilim32

zilch0md said:


> Do they make that in a jump suit?   I want that action from wrists to ankles.
> [/quote
> 
> Hey my friend. I think this product is the real deal. Really accurate LFE. 5-125 hertz. I tried it today at an expo. I just loved it. I am gonna get it for sure. Best upgrade I can do for myself at this point.


----------



## Maxvla

nephilim32 I've seen you post that thing in 4-5 threads already, and I don't keep many subscriptions these days. Please stop spamming it.


----------



## nephilim32

maxvla said:


> nephilim32 I've seen you post that thing in 4-5 threads already, and I don't keep many subscriptions these days. Please stop spamming it.




To be honest it was 6 different threads from my subscription list. I just wanted to make sure I could get an informed opinion of the subpac from others here, and possibly a solid opinion of it relative to the same sources being used like the HD 800. I think you are being a bit unfair to say that I am spamming. Anyway turns out some people here where able to help me and shot some product reviews my way. This I all I wanted. Sorry if my keen interest annoyed you. Wasn't sure how else to do it


----------



## joe

Guys -- Let's be civil here and drop the attacks.


----------



## vincent215

The HD800 is on sales at Amazon at $961.
The seller is Amazon warehouse deals, not Amazon nor another 3rd party seller. Most of them have cosmetic defects, but the price is too good to pass if you are in the market for a HD800.


----------



## zilch0md

nephilim32 said:


> zilch0md said:
> 
> 
> > Do they make that in a jump suit?   I want that action from wrists to ankles.
> ...


 
  
 I've tried the Buttkicker with headphones, but found it to be too narrow in bandwidth - a lot better than tapping my chair with a rubber mallet, and quite powerful, but the vibrations just don't integrate well with the music heard in my headphones - and, it's localized to where my body touches the chair.
  
 In short, the Buttkicker is not a realistic experience and I can imagine that this product, being full torso length, would be better, but there would still be nothing happening in my arms and legs.  I was serious when I wrote that I want wrist-to-ankle coverage. Let's add a helmet to that.  Basically, I want to "feel" what I get from a good HiFi system - without disturbing anyone else in the house.   Otherwise, I'll just listen to the HiFi.  
  
 Thanks for introducing it though!
  
 Mike


----------



## whirlwind

Watching Joe Bonamassa on  Bluray  "An Accoustic Evening At The Vienna Opera House"
  
 Listening with the HD800......Oh Lord....epic.


----------



## ubs28

Is a coloured amp better than just applying some EQ? If a song doesn't place nicely, it sounds pretty good with some quick EQ in the treble usually for me.


----------



## RingingEars

ubs28 said:


> Is a coloured amp better than just EQ the sound? If a song doesn't place nicely, it sounds pretty good with some quick EQ in the treble usually for me.


 
 I would rather have a neutral amp and use EQ IMO.


----------



## nephilim32

zilch0md said:


> I've tried the Buttkicker with headphones, but found it to be too narrow in bandwidth - a lot better than tapping my chair with a rubber mallet, and quite powerful, but the vibrations just don't integrate well with the music heard in my headphones - and, it's localized to where my body touches the chair.
> 
> In short, the Buttkicker is not a realistic experience and I can imagine that this product, being full torso length, would be better, but there would still be nothing happening in my arms and legs.  I was serious when I wrote that I want wrist-to-ankle coverage. Let's add a helmet to that.  Basically, I want to "feel" what I get from a good HiFi system - without disturbing anyone else in the house.   Otherwise, I'll just listen to the HiFi.
> 
> ...




The whole body! Lol you are serious. 
That's intense. I feel the torso may be enough after what I experienced. 
It was lovely. The subpac does deliver a flat EQ response so it won't taint your sources, which is key in my book. Thanks for introducing me to the buttkicker. Lol. But seriously, I think the SUBPAC may be far superior. Can't wait till they restock this item. They are back ordered. 

Take care mike. Go easy on the bass....just kidding!


----------



## zilch0md

white lotus said:


> UltraCurve PRO - DEQ2496.
> 
> All of my pro audio experience is telling me to stay away from Behringer.. But It's a product I can't resist. I bought it at an unbelievably cheap price, too.


 
  
 Have you received it yet?
  
 Thanks,
  
 Mike


----------



## LugBug1

Well I've just spent the last 6 months with only one headphone... Had the HD800 a couple of years now and I have no want for another.
 Theres two good points in regards to what this means for me; 1. I've beat my 'buying headphones' addiction... 2. I have been able to put all my focus on the music recently - Not balancing a perfection in sound quality as well. I've also lived with my vintage NAD amps feeding them for many months too and have now completely stopped looking for ampidge as well... I feel I won't do any better without selling my back gate to happy sailors on the quayside to pay for it.  So... 
  
It's a nice place to be  But a boring one regarding posts on here haha. 
  
 Defo the best hifi purchase I've ever made!
  
 (and trust me, you don't need to shell out $$$$ to source these slinky silver mothers to enjoy what they are capable of. Just feed them the right power.) (don't ask me what that is though) (not sure why I've started using brackets) (can't stop..)
  
 (help!)
  
  
  
 ok I've stopped.
  
  
  
  
 (Doh!)


----------



## Mortalcoil

lugbug1 said:


> Well I've just spent the last 6 months with only one headphone... Had the HD800 a couple of years now and I have no want for another.
> Theres two good points in regards to what this means for me; 1. I've beat my 'buying headphones' addiction... 2. I have been able to put all my focus on the music recently - Not balancing a perfection in sound quality as well. I've also lived with my vintage NAD amps feeding them for many months too and have now completely stopped looking for ampidge as well... I feel I won't do any better without selling my back gate to happy sailors on the quayside to pay for it.  So...
> 
> It's a nice place to be  But a boring one regarding posts on here haha.
> ...


 

 (LOL at the bracket thing) 
  
(At least you haven't resorted to nano type)


----------



## MickeyVee

I have to agree.  I've been looking for a compliment to the HD800 and so far, no luck.  In all my cases, I've always preferred the HD800. 
 Now my goal is to find a second pair that I can hook up to my iPhone6 or AK100 Mk II to take around the house and travelling.  The HD800 won't cut it for that's I'm now looking at the HE400i. I can see myself being a 2 HP kind of guy.
 The HD800 is King!
 Now.. that MHA100... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...
  
 Quote:


lugbug1 said:


> It's a nice place to be  But a boring one regarding posts on here haha.
> 
> 
> ok I've stopped.
> ...


----------



## screwdriver

mickeyvee said:


>


 

 i used to have hd800 and lcdx
 now I have hd800 and hifiman he6.
 to have different flavors - to change up a bit sometimes
 the he-6 is excellent imo.


----------



## TooPoor

I'm completely conflicted at the moment between the HD800, LCD-3, and HE-6.
  
 HD800:
 - Had before with V200 = amazing, miss it dearly
 - Just missed out on insanely cheap Amazon pricing ($980 'Like New')
  
 LCD-3
 - Expensive ($1600 used)
 - Only heard it on TOL rigs (See sig for my current setup 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 - WEIGHT (hated my LCD2.2 due to weight)
  
 HE-6
 - WEIGHT (sold my HE-500 because insufferable weight)
 - A/B'd with my old HE-560 (through EF-6), couldn't really decide if one was better than the other
 - Amp. Nothing to add here, we all know it needs a speaker amp ($$, would have to sell my AMP/DAC = hassle)


----------



## koiloco

^HD800 seems the most logical choice based on what you listed.


----------



## TooPoor

Hence why I recently edited my WTB ad to just include HD800's...
  
 I am really curious how my AMP/DAC will sound with them balanced. Amp puts out plenty of power and the dual Wolfson chips are smooth as butter.


----------



## ubs28

lugbug1 said:


> Well I've just spent the last 6 months with only one headphone... Had the HD800 a couple of years now and I have no want for another.
> Theres two good points in regards to what this means for me; 1. I've beat my 'buying headphones' addiction... 2. I have been able to put all my focus on the music recently - Not balancing a perfection in sound quality as well. I've also lived with my vintage NAD amps feeding them for many months too and have now completely stopped looking for ampidge as well... I feel I won't do any better without selling my back gate to happy sailors on the quayside to pay for it.  So...
> 
> It's a nice place to be  But a boring one regarding posts on here haha.
> ...


 

 I'm using them with the Chord Hugo only. I don't know if it's underpowered or not, but the HD800 sounds flawless on it. I can listen to any type of music on it. The treble sounds very smooth. I'm enjoying these HD800 on my "cheap" setup.


----------



## whirlwind

lugbug1 said:


> Well I've just spent the last 6 months with only one headphone... Had the HD800 a couple of years now and I have no want for another.
> Theres two good points in regards to what this means for me; 1. I've beat my 'buying headphones' addiction... 2. I have been able to put all my focus on the music recently - Not balancing a perfection in sound quality as well. I've also lived with my vintage NAD amps feeding them for many months too and have now completely stopped looking for ampidge as well... I feel I won't do any better without selling my back gate to happy sailors on the quayside to pay for it.  So...
> 
> It's a nice place to be  But a boring one regarding posts on here haha.
> ...


 
 Same here....had them for 5 months now.
  
 I do have a Grado SR225i....but seldom listen to it.


----------



## LugBug1

mickeyvee said:


>


 
 If I was looking for a new set of hp's for round the house and travelling etc where the HD800 are not practical I'd have a go at the NAD HP-50. I haven't heard them but from what I've read they might make a nice compliment to the Senn's as well.


----------



## Buddhahacker

lugbug1 said:


> Well I've just spent the last 6 months with only one headphone... Had the HD800 a couple of years now and I have no want for another.
> Theres two good points in regards to what this means for me; 1. I've beat my 'buying headphones' addiction... 2. I have been able to put all my focus on the music recently - Not balancing a perfection in sound quality as well. I've also lived with my vintage NAD amps feeding them for many months too and have now completely stopped looking for ampidge as well... I feel I won't do any better without selling my back gate to happy sailors on the quayside to pay for it.  So...
> 
> It's a nice place to be  But a boring one regarding posts on here haha.
> ...


 
 Congratulations!  Finding and enjoying a fine pairing seems to be a challenge.  For some, the journey of finding just the right pairing is the objective and sitting down and enjoying them is secondary.  My journey is rapidly slowing now that I have my HD800 and my favorite pair of IEMS.  I find that my attention has also moved from the hardware to the music with the search for new and better recordings being my new journey.  Fortunately, this journey is proving to be far less expensive.


----------



## RingingEars

buddhahacker said:


> Congratulations!  Finding and enjoying a fine pairing seems to be a challenge.  For some, the journey of finding just the right pairing is the objective and sitting down and enjoying them is secondary.  My journey is rapidly slowing now that I have my HD800 and my favorite pair of IEMS.  I find that my attention has also moved from the hardware to the music with the search for new and better recordings being my new journey.  Fortunately, this journey is proving to be far less expensive.


 
 Same here Buddha.
 I use what's in my sig for the HD800(just got the decware yesterday) I think I have found my endgame rig. The only weak link $$ wise is the zdac, but I honestly can't find anything wrong with it without being nitpicky, but I could do that with the amp and headphones too. It's an excellent dac.
 To me the HD800 is a perfect headphone, but it does need the right amp. The headphone out of the zdac is pretty lackluster for the HD800, but the CSP3 is a great pairing even with the cheap Valve Art 274B. I can't imagine what this is going to sound like with a Mullard GZ37...


----------



## whirlwind

ringingears said:


> buddhahacker said:
> 
> 
> > Congratulations!  Finding and enjoying a fine pairing seems to be a challenge.  For some, the journey of finding just the right pairing is the objective and sitting down and enjoying them is secondary.  My journey is rapidly slowing now that I have my HD800 and my favorite pair of IEMS.  I find that my attention has also moved from the hardware to the music with the search for new and better recordings being my new journey.  Fortunately, this journey is proving to be far less expensive.
> ...


 
 congrats on the amp


----------



## RingingEars

whirlwind said:


> congrats on the amp


 
 Thanks whirlwind. I'm sure it will get even better with burn in...


----------



## whirlwind

ringingears said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > congrats on the amp
> ...


 
 Yeah,  it should sound great with the HD800....looks real nice there too.
  
 This was one of the few amps that I was interested in.


----------



## RingingEars

whirlwind said:


> Yeah,  it should sound great with the HD800....looks real nice there too.
> 
> This was one of the few amps that I was interested in.


 
 It does.
 I don't have as much experience as most here with amp/dac/headphone combos, so my comparisons are limited, but I do like it quite a bit better that my DT880(600 ohm) and Crack combo I had. 
 Been listening to it for 4 hours straight today and I'm not fatigued at all. I could go another 4 lol...


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Was just now bobbing my head to the music and enjoying it. Haven't done enough of that. Liking the headphones.


----------



## mikemercer

birdmanofct said:


> Was just now bobbing my head to the music and enjoying it. Haven't done enough of that. Liking the headphones.


 
 That's what it's ALL ABOUT!!
  
 Was so cool to read your words just now...
  
 As thats precisely how I feel right now,
 Amen!!
  
 Havin FUN, pulled an all-night listening sesh!

  
 and was lovin the 800s at Canjam on ALO's Studio Six with Kens new cables!
 I have both and use em together often - that was dope.


----------



## whirlwind

^ what a wonderful set up ^


----------



## zilch0md

But is it as wonderful as the balanced-mode HA-200 monoblocks to HD800?


----------



## RingingEars

The studio six is an absolute beautiful amp...


mikemercer said:


> That's what it's ALL ABOUT!!
> 
> Was so cool to read your words just now...
> 
> ...


 
 The studio six is an absolute beautiful amp...


----------



## TooPoor

zilch0md said:


> But is it as wonderful as the balanced-mode HA-200 monoblocks to HD800?


 

 I have read about their synergy... Is it really that good (in the opinion of those in this HD800 thread)? I have read through the HA200 thread before.


----------



## zilch0md

Mike Mercer has spoken highly of both rigs - the balanced HA-200s and the Studio Six. I've not heard either of them, so I was hoping he could compare them.


----------



## mikemercer

zilch0md said:


> Mike Mercer has spoken highly of both rigs - the balanced HA-200s and the Studio Six. I've not heard either of them, so I was hoping he could compare them.


 
 YEAH!
 I'm down to do that.
  
 I should be back in the *Sonic Satori Personal Audio Lab* tomorrow - and I got some assignments to knock out first, but that would be a fun shoot-out!
 I own my S6 - so I should do this soon as I gotta return the HA-200s...
  
 GREAT idea




  
 I'm LOVING my HD800s w/ the new Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson BTW - wired w/ Double Helix Cables Molecule Elite.
  
 I'm experiencing this extension in the low-end that I rarely hear with these cans. The highs have amazing dimension now too.
 They don't sound as thin as I sometimes hear w/ the 800 - the presentation is more window-like and easy on the eardrums...


----------



## kphfrail

mikemercer said:


> YEAH!
> I'm down to do that.
> 
> I should be back in the *Sonic Satori Personal Audio Lab* tomorrow - and I got some assignments to knock out first, but that would be a fun shoot-out!
> ...


 
 I've never seen you _not_ like something, Mike!


----------



## MacedonianHero

kphfrail said:


> I've never seen you _not_ like something, Mike!


 
 Have you considered maybe he chooses not to talk about gear he doesn't like? Simpler that way.


----------



## 62ohm

macedonianhero said:


> kphfrail said:
> 
> 
> > I've never seen you _not_ like something, Mike!
> ...


 
  
 Which is the way I see it, talking about gear we like is much more fun than ranting about the ones we don't like.


----------



## MacedonianHero

62ohm said:


> Which is the way I see it, talking about gear we like is much more fun than ranting about the ones we don't like.


 
 Plus you ruffle a lot more feathers talking about gear you don't like.


----------



## kphfrail

macedonianhero said:


> Have you considered maybe he chooses not to talk about gear he doesn't like? Simpler that way.


 
 I have considered it. I agree that it is simpler that way. However, my statement still stands. Not to be a sauerkraut, only in jest.


----------



## koiloco

kphfrail said:


> I have considered it. I agree that it is simpler that way. However, my statement still stands. Not to be a sauerkraut, only in jest.


 
 +1.  I have met Mike in person and like the guy but I do see where you are coming from. 100% legit opinion.


----------



## White Lotus

macedonianhero said:


> Plus you ruffle a lot more feathers talking about gear you don't like.


 
  
 You'd be surprised how personally people can take this hobby!


----------



## wahsmoh

Hehe I think if you spend $1500 on the HD800 brand new and someone criticizes the headphones in a negative way it could be offensive. Personally I think the HD800 is miles above most headphones in soundstage but can be made better with modifications and I prefer the Anaxilus mod with a good tube amp source over the stock HD800 and the Sennheiser group's cold solid state pairing


----------



## Priidik

macedonianhero said:


> Plus you ruffle a lot more feathers talking about gear you don't like.


 
  
 It seems to me that at least good half of the users here seek some sort of consumer advice. I am still among them.
 At this point it is beneficial to the consumer advice seekers to read about in what areas the product doesn't meet someones needs/expectations as well as where it is performing well. Here the key is to see the context. It can go both ways, people giving impressions about HD800 hooked to improper chain mislead others who might have a good chain for these, while other are dissapointed in HD800, who believed that HD800 is one of the worlds top cans, but actually not in their system.
    Most of the world is liberal enough that agents in black suites won't come knocking on someones door if he criticized some companies product in a negative way.
 I understand people who doesn't want to be reminded about where his/hers equipment stands in on someones absolute scale, but rather read and respond to positive comments and enjoy what they have now. Much less stressful.
   But there are also those who seek the truth in reproduction of audio, the performance as close to real thing as possibe, for those people negative comments are as valuable as positive ones, or given the ammount of appreciation threads, the negative ones are more valuable.
   In the end no one is forced to agree or believe anyone, so in my mind it is great if someone says what they really thought about something.


----------



## MacedonianHero

white lotus said:


> You'd be surprised how personally people can take this hobby!


 
 I've been here long enough...nothing surprises me anymore.


----------



## zilch0md

mikemercer said:


> YEAH!
> I'm down to do that.
> 
> I should be back in the *Sonic Satori Personal Audio Lab* tomorrow - and I got some assignments to knock out first, but that would be a fun shoot-out!
> ...


 
  
 Thanks Mike!  I'm looking forward to it.


----------



## MusicEnthusiast

These headphones are amazing!


----------



## LugBug1

musicenthusiast said:


> These headphones are amazing!


 






 and they get better and better


----------



## MusicEnthusiast

lugbug1 said:


> and they get better and better


 
  
 w000t!


----------



## icebear

kphfrail said:


> I have considered it. I agree that it is simpler that way. However, my statement still stands. Not to be a *sauerkraut*, only in jest.


 

 ... never liked sour crowd myself either


----------



## RingingEars

musicenthusiast said:


> These headphones are amazing!


 
  
 They are aren't they... 


lugbug1 said:


> and they get better and better


 
 I don't see how LugBug. They sound pretty darn amazing right out of the box(I dodged the 6k bullet with mine), but better is better. I'm all for it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  


musicenthusiast said:


> w000t!


 
 +1. They sound spectacular off a good tube amp.


----------



## MusicEnthusiast

ringingears said:


> They are aren't they...
> I don't see how LugBug. They sound pretty darn amazing right out of the box(I dodged the 6k bullet with mine), but better is better. I'm all for it.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for sharing RingingEars! Gotta try that sometime soon. Any Tube Amps and accompanying DAC in particular you guys would recommend with the HD 800? I've only heard these headphones through the HDVD 800 and I'm absolutely floored at how good they perform. What specifically makes Tube Amps desirable with the HD 800? Also, if you guys could suggest from the Balanced Tube Amp options.


----------



## RingingEars

The only experience I have is with the CSP3. It doesn't have balanced inputs or outputs(it's a preamp also), but you can get it with XLR headphone out. 
 I really like this amp. It has a nice neutral sound. Not dark or syrupy like some tube amps can be and I haven't rolled any other tube beside the stock ones, but I'm sure you could dial it in more to your personal taste with better/different tubes.
 Here's a pic of it.


----------



## MusicEnthusiast

ringingears said:


> The only experience I have is with the CSP3. It doesn't have balanced inputs or outputs(it's a preamp also), but you can get it with XLR headphone out.
> I really like this amp. It has a nice neutral sound. Not dark or syrupy like some tube amps can be and I haven't rolled any other tube beside the stock ones, but I'm sure you could dial it in more to your personal taste with better/different tubes.
> Here's a pic of it.


 
  
 Wow! Nice rig, RingingEars. Thanks for your input, man!


----------



## wahsmoh

ringingears said:


> They are aren't they...
> I don't see how LugBug. They sound pretty darn amazing right out of the box(I dodged the 6k bullet with mine), but better is better. I'm all for it.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's the only way I've truly experienced the HD800. I heard the HD800 with this massive tube amp that some guy brought to the March 2014 SoCal Head-fi meet. I still have yet to identify the actual amplifier
  
 EDIT: Did some searching and found it. 
  
 Exit Level Audio is the name of the company. This was absolute magic with the HD800 (on a side note, their website no longer exists and I  have yet to hear anything new from them. that is very sad  but then again a $6000 amplifier isn't the most competitive offering in the world)


----------



## fpsoft1

Best headphone in the world. Give her a good amp.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

I've felt sorry for a lot of artists the past decade or so -- if only their recordings were better. The HD800 only emphasizes that.


----------



## RUMAY408

OPPO BDP-105>XLR out>Meier Classic>Norne Draug2 cable
  
 Quality older CD's have never sounded better


----------



## RingingEars

rumay408 said:


> OPPO BDP-105>XLR out>Meier Classic>Norne Draug2 cable
> 
> Quality older CD's have never sounded better


 
 Very nice. How do you like the Corda/Daccord?
 I have a Draug2 coming soon. Same color scheme as yours. Can't wait to get it.


----------



## RUMAY408

ringingears said:


> Very nice. How do you like the Corda/Daccord?
> I have a Draug2 coming soon. Same color scheme as yours. Can't wait to get it.


 

 I've been using the Meier Stack with hi res off the OPPO BDP-105, love the sound from the Meier combo more of an analog sound than would be expected off a solid state setup. 
  
 You will dig the Draug2


----------



## wahsmoh

rumay408 said:


> I've been using the Meier Stack with hi res off the OPPO BDP-105, love the sound from the Meier combo more of an analog sound than would be expected off a solid state setup.
> 
> You will dig the Draug2


 
 I have the Vanquish. Norne makes some really high quality cables :]


----------



## pearljam50000

Does anyone plan to sell the HD800 and get the Abyss?
I'm dying to how much better it is than thw HD800 , it must be alot better because it costs 4 times the price.


----------



## 62ohm

pearljam50000 said:


> Does anyone plan to sell the HD800 and get the Abyss?
> I'm dying to how much better it is than thw HD800 , it must be alot better because it costs 4 times the price.


 
  
 Don't forget about the law of diminishing returns


----------



## RingingEars

pearljam50000 said:


> Does anyone plan to sell the HD800 and get the Abyss?
> I'm dying to how much better it is than thw HD800 , it must be alot better because it costs 4 times the price.


 
 Here is a review and comparison http://www.head-fi.org/t/666765/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread


----------



## longbowbbs

pearljam50000 said:


> Does anyone plan to sell the HD800 and get the Abyss?
> I'm dying to how much better it is than thw HD800 , it must be alot better because it costs 4 times the price.


 
 I would not make that trade. I spent a lot of time with the Abyss at RMAF using several TOTL amps (Woo 234 Mono, Cavalli Liquid Gold, etc.) It is a great headphone but I still preferred the HD800's. Not a cost decision but a preference one.


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> I would not make that trade. I spent a lot of time with the Abyss at RMAF using several TOTL amps (Woo 234 Mono, Cavalli Liquid Gold, etc.) It is a great headphone but I still preferred the HD800's. Not a cost decision but a preference one.


 
 Yea and another thing people always forget to mention is the ugliness of the abyss. yuck!! 
  
 I don't think even lurch could pull it off.


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I would not make that trade. I spent a lot of time with the Abyss at RMAF using several TOTL amps (Woo 234 Mono, Cavalli Liquid Gold, etc.) It is a great headphone but I still preferred the HD800's. Not a cost decision but a preference one.
> ...


 
 LOL!


----------



## bearFNF

pearljam50000 said:


> Does anyone plan to sell the HD800 and get the Abyss?
> I'm dying to how much better it is than thw HD800 , it must be alot better because it costs 4 times the price.



Nope, I will stick with my HD800, don't care for the *abysmal* at all. 
LOL, for once auto correct gets it right.


----------



## wink

Almost there......
  


 Gotcha........................


----------



## Dopaminer

This is me after auditioning some Abyss phones for too long


----------



## Dopaminer

By the way / Back on topic , I finally got a hirose terminated cable for my HD800s, and my DB2/PB2 stack sounds outrageously good.   I now lie awake in bed listening to the system all night long and my desktop rig is getting jealous.


----------



## RingingEars

I know its been said over and over, but the soundstage on these headphones are amazing. It's taking me a little while to get used to it.


----------



## magiccabbage

Here is a great HD800 album


----------



## Somphon

pearljam50000 said:


> Does anyone plan to sell the HD800 and get the Abyss?
> I'm dying to how much better it is than thw HD800 , it must be alot better because it costs 4 times the price.


 
  
 Not sure if selling HD800 will help much to get the Abyss.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Maybe selling both HD800 and LCD-3.. Which I'm tempting to do some times.
 I had some time with the Abyss and found it to be an improvement in all area except sound stage. Of course there's that diminishing return on investments we all talked about. It was not like.. wow 4 times better. BUT, it does make me wanting it and selling both my other 2 hp.
 Although if I have the budget (and wife's approval), I would rather buy Stax SR-009.
 Don't really care about the looks, these can (including HD800) was not meant for walking around anyway. Besides, I don't look at myself in the mirror while I listen to music.


----------



## RingingEars

somphon said:


> Although if I have the budget (and wife's approval), I would rather buy Stax SR-009.


 
 The 009 is cheaper than the Abyss isn't it?\
  
 Edit: of course that doesn't take into account a Stax amp...


----------



## Somphon

ringingears said:


> The 009 is cheaper than the Abyss isn't it?\
> 
> Edit: of course that doesn't take into account a Stax amp...


 
  
 Yes, cheaper hp alone. but what is your point?
 both are competing top of the line hp


----------



## RingingEars

somphon said:


> Yes, cheaper hp alone. but what is your point?
> both are competing top of the line hp


 
 Point is you're trying to get you wifes approval. Easier to do with a cheaper product


----------



## icebear

pearljam50000 said:


> Does anyone plan to sell the HD800 and get the Abyss?
> I'm dying to how much better it is than thw HD800 , it must be alot better because it costs 4 times the price.


 

 The only thing you get 4x is weight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
 But only 1/4 of the soundstage ...


----------



## Somphon

ringingears said:


> Point is you're trying to get you wifes approval. Easier to do with a cheaper product


 
  
 lol...it won't be that much easier.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

ringingears said:


> Point is you're trying to get you wifes approval. Easier to do with a cheaper product


 

 I don't know why there is such concern with wife's approval.  Why, my wife and I have an arrangement in advance.  Her approval is for sale, and she has presented me with a price list...


----------



## RingingEars

ruthieandjohn said:


> I don't know why there is such concern with wife's approval.  Why, my wife and I have an arrangement in advance.  Her approval is for sale, and she has presented me with a price list...


 
 LOL.
 My wife actually encouraged me to get the HD800. I was going to get the LCD-2 and she saw the HD800 and told me "You have to get those instead". I was like "Oh ok. If you say so"


----------



## pearvin

Hi, just need some recommendation. Will the schiit bifrost be a good pair with my violectric v100 + hd800 or should I let go of the amp and get a stack schiit bifrost+asgard2?


----------



## Maxvla

If you go for a Schiit amp, definitely pick up the Valhalla 2 not the Asgard 2 for HD800s.


----------



## longbowbbs

Geek Pulse X-fi with optional Linear Power Supply....Sweet!


----------



## No_One411

longbowbbs said:


> Geek Pulse X-fi with optional Linear Power Supply....Sweet!


 
 I'm sure I won't be the only one to ask or is thinking this, but how does it sound????


----------



## longbowbbs

no_one411 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Geek Pulse X-fi with optional Linear Power Supply....Sweet!
> ...


 
 First couple of hours have been fantastic.


----------



## RingingEars

longbowbbs said:


> Geek Pulse X-fi with optional Linear Power Supply....Sweet!
> <snip>


 
 Very nice.
 Is that the toxic cable? How do you like it?


----------



## longbowbbs

ringingears said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Geek Pulse X-fi with optional Linear Power Supply....Sweet!
> ...


 
 It is...Balanced Silver Widow. I love it. The HD800's and the SW's are a great combo. The sound great with the new Geek Pulse too!


----------



## Taowolf51

longbowbbs said:


> Geek Pulse X-fi with optional Linear Power Supply....Sweet!


 
  
 Hot damn! The Pulse is a lot larger than I expected it to be! (I expected a M-Stage sized box from the old promo images). I'm interested to see how it performs, can't wait for the review.


----------



## 62ohm

Putting on the HD800 after a lengthy time listening to the K812 feels weird and amazing at the same time. Everything sounds like they are coming from the front, there's very little sense that you have two drivers on either side of your head. The presentation of the HD800 is very ethereal that listening to it after listening to headphones with inferior imaging feels eerie.
  
 Have just listened to "Behind the Lines" and "Duchess" by Genesis twice with both cans, and for Genesis at least the HD800 gave me more awe.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

62ohm said:


> Putting on the HD800 after a lengthy time listening to the K812 feels weird and amazing at the same time. Everything sounds like they are coming from the front, there's very little sense that you have two drivers on either side of your head. The presentation of the HD800 is very ethereal that listening to it after listening to headphones with inferior imaging feels eerie.
> 
> Have just listened to "Behind the Lines" and "Duchess" by Genesis twice with both cans, and for Genesis at least the HD800 gave me more awe.


Definitely agree with the ethereal part, even though my DAC is only an Audioengine D3, the imaging is spectacular. I find that the HD800 presents the instruments in life size in the soundstage, much how people describe planar/electrostatic speakers. The depth on the HD800's never ceases to amaze me. I guess I'll find out what they mean with planar speakers at the Toronto Audio Visual Entertainment Show this weekend .


----------



## koiloco

longbowbbs said:


> First couple of hours have been fantastic.


 
 It's called honeymoon period!


----------



## spurxiii

koiloco said:


> It's called honeymoon period!




More like the first night of wild sex


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

spurxiii said:


> More like the first night of wild sex


Wouldn't that be more like a TH900 instead ?


----------



## longbowbbs

I love you guys! So do we carry the marriage analogy forward and say so far so good...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Ah, the romance of that!


----------



## MickeyVee

Actually heading to TAVES today before the crowds get crazy.  If you don't know Charles from Headfone Shop, drop by and say hi.  Nice guy and he stock a lot fof the 'good stuff'.  As far a speakers go, usually the room setups are not optimal but it will give you a good idea. Still no comparison; good speakers win 
  
  
 Quote:


toddthemetalgod said:


> The depth on the HD800's never ceases to amaze me. I guess I'll find out what they mean with planar speakers at the Toronto Audio Visual Entertainment Show this weekend
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## 62ohm

I have just auditioned the KEF LS50 paired with an Onkyo amp & CD player (not sure which model) and came out a bit disappointed. I want to also have a speaker setup, and the KEF LS50 with its glowing reviews and affordable price intrigued me. But apparently a $1,500 pair of speakers IMO still can't compete with a $1,500 headphone.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

Nice. I met Charles a year or so back when I bought the Hifiman HE-400 that my HD800 recently replaced. He seemed like a good guy . My friend and I are going Saturday, he hasn't heard a lot of good equipment (I think just Q701, HE-400, Spirit One, and M80) so he's probably in for some surprise .


----------



## Frank I

mickeyvee said:


>


 
 Mickey-Bring your checkbook my man.  Always tempting stuff at these shows. Too bad we can't see the new Sennheiser headphone till CES/


----------



## magiccabbage

frank i said:


> Mickey-Bring your checkbook my man.  Always tempting stuff at these shows. Too bad we can't see the new Sennheiser headphone till CES/


 
 What new Sennheiser headphone?


----------



## magiccabbage

mickeyvee said:


>


 
 yea real good one 2500+ at least


----------



## RingingEars

magiccabbage said:


> What new Sennheiser headphone?


 
 Awe man. Is the HD800 going to get kicked from the TOTL forum?


----------



## koiloco

spurxiii said:


> More like the first night of wild sex


 
 You win !


----------



## zilch0md

If there is a new Sennheiser coming and it's priced at $2500, then even Germany has lost their middle class. 50 years from now they'll be making nothing but flagships and ear buds.


----------



## whirlwind

Gawd!  This headphone is so good when you crank it up a little.
  
 Had the Mad Ear at 3:00 today on the volume dial......usually never go there.....listening to Fogerty's Centerfield flac album.......just wonderful stuff.....love these cans....they can wow you!


----------



## Taowolf51

Hey Lotus! Did you ever get that Behringer EQ? What do you think?


----------



## zilch0md

taowolf51 said:


> Hey Lotus! Did you ever get that Behringer EQ? What do you think?


----------



## pearljam50000

Can't wait for the HD1000


----------



## kphfrail

pearljam50000 said:


> Can't wait for the HD1000


 
 They might pull a Microsoft and skip the HD 900 and go straight to the HD 1000


----------



## Rhamnetin

kphfrail said:


> They might pull a Microsoft and skip the HD 900 and go straight to the HD 1000


 
  
 I want a new Sennheiser electrostat


----------



## LugBug1

It will be a planar or stat... No doubt!  Probs gonna be called Orpheus 2 or sumfin. And it will be priced accordingly. 
  
 My wallet rests easy...


----------



## RingingEars

I wonder if it will be a limited edition like the original Orpheus.


----------



## LugBug1

ringingears said:


> I wonder if it will be a limited edition like the original Orpheus.


 
 Not a chance with todays market.. No need!


----------



## Maxvla

pearljam50000 said:


> Can't wait for the HD1000



Did you order an HD1000 Charleston from a vintage seller?


----------



## MickeyVee

CR@P!!  I was listening to a bunch of amps including the entire Woo collection and Questyle and came away unimpressed; not that they weren't very good to excellent but I wanted something a definitive step above what I have.  I did get some good time with the McIntosh MHA100 (at a couple of booths)  and as much as I love the looks and flexibility, it did not blow me away but is better than what I'm using now.  
 At the same booth, they had a Naim DAC-V1 which I have and did have a chance to compare.  Charles from Headfone Shop was right beside them so I borrowed a pair of HE560 as I know the signature extremely well.  Doh, I have a pair.  Beside the DAC-V1 was the Naim HeadLine headphone amp and I thought this little box has got to be a joke.  Uh Oh!!  The DAC-V1 HP out is very, very nice but could use a little more body and dynamics. Back and forth between the MHA100 and DAC-V1/HeadLine with my iPhone6, CCK and USB cable.. CR@P! I put a deposit on the HeadLine (show special) and am going back on Sunday with my HD800. Specs on the HeadLine are underwhelming and does not reflect the power, dynamics and detail I heard today.
  
 Now, I know that Naim is not popular in this neck of the woods but I must say, the HeadLine is the next step for me. Excellent mate for the DAC-V1.  Maybe I just like the British sound. not everybody's cup of tea. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


frank i said:


> Mickey-Bring your checkbook my man.  Always tempting stuff at these shows. Too bad we can't see the new Sennheiser headphone till CES/


----------



## MickeyVee

yeah, I'm a Martin Logan guy, see my gallery. Nuff said.
 Quote:


magiccabbage said:


> yea real good one 2500+ at least


----------



## ivanlyf

Hello everyone!
  
 Reporting in to the thread....I'm a new Sennheiser HD800 owner, serial number 31759!
  
 Been wanting to get the HD800 since I started the audio hobby in 2009. Finally got my headphones after going the speaker route for 2 years! They complement my speakers very well


----------



## RingingEars

ivanlyf said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> Reporting in to the thread....I'm a new Sennheiser HD800 owner, serial number 31759!
> 
> Been wanting to get the HD800 since I started the audio hobby in 2009. Finally got my headphones after going the speaker route for 2 years! They complement my speakers very well


 
 Welcome.


----------



## akhyar

ivanlyf said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> Reporting in to the thread....I'm a new Sennheiser HD800 owner, serial number 31759!
> 
> Been wanting to get the HD800 since I started the audio hobby in 2009. Finally got my headphones after going the speaker route for 2 years! They complement my speakers very well


 
  
 Welcome to the club.
 Your HD800 deserves better then the iCan.
 I used to own the iCan driving the HD800 for 2 -3 months, before I let go of the small amp


----------



## koiloco

^ Gratzzz!  You will enjoy the HD800 as 99% of us here have.


----------



## ivanlyf

Thanks for the welcome!
  
 @akhyar: Yep, I agree that the HD800 deserves better.
  
 But I'll take it slowly first - give the headphones and new RCA cable about 6 months to burn in and for me to understand the HD800's signature. Only then will I look for a more permanent headphone amp as I should have a good idea by then of what I wish to improve.
  
 The iCan is already a huge upgrade from the headphone amplifier of the Mytek DAC though! The HD800 was super 'sluggish' on the Mytek.


----------



## ivanlyf

koiloco said:


> ^ Gratzzz!  You will enjoy the HD800 as 99% of us here have.


 
 Hah already enjoying it very much in its 'virgin', not runned in form.
  
 I listen to classical music 90% of the time and was very pleased that the HD800 allowed me to hear _*new*_ sounds and instruments in my tracks. Really love its revealing nature


----------



## Maxvla

ivanlyf said:


> Thanks for the welcome!
> 
> @akhyar: Yep, I agree that the HD800 deserves better.
> 
> ...



You'll last maybe a month.


----------



## spurxiii

lol just realised the serial number. Mine is a few weeks old and is 32267


----------



## ivanlyf

spurxiii said:


> lol just realised the serial number. Mine is a few weeks old and is 32267


 
  
 Our HD800s are of a very late batch!


----------



## RingingEars

spurxiii said:


> lol just realised the serial number. Mine is a few weeks old and is 32267


 
 We're close. Mine is 32611


----------



## pearljam50000

maxvla said:


> Did you order an HD1000 Charleston from a vintage seller?


 
 No


----------



## RingingEars

maxvla said:


> Did you order an HD1000 Charleston from a vintage seller?


 
 I had to google that.


----------



## magiccabbage

Hopefully this new flagship is at least 1 year away. And, it better not be an electro stat - i want it to be compatible with my DNA Stratus. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I dont know if i will ever go down the electro stat headphone route - i would rather buy a speaker system and keep dynamic headphones.  
  
 Im thinking Tannoy speakers and Glenn 300b / Schiit Yggy for speakers.


----------



## Frank I

magiccabbage said:


> Hopefully this new flagship is at least 1 year away. And, it better not be an electro stat - i want it to be compatible with my DNA Stratus.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 you should snoop around in Dublin Paddy


----------



## ubs28

magiccabbage said:


> Hopefully this new flagship is at least 1 year away. And, it better not be an electro stat - i want it to be compatible with my DNA Stratus.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm going to be disappointed too since I bought the HD800 recently. Strange that Sennheiser told my dealer that there will be no HD800 replacement anytime soon, because I would have waited then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But I'm happy with the HD800 anyway.


----------



## Anavel0

When did the new flagship talk start? I haven't even seen rumors of it. Did I miss something from RMAF?


----------



## LugBug1

ubs28 said:


> I'm going to be disappointed too since I bought the HD800 recently. Strange that Sennheiser told my dealer that there will be no HD800 replacement anytime soon, because I would have waited then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Theres nothing to say that it will be a replacement, even when they do inevitably release it. I'd be very surprised if it is another dynamic headphone. HD800 will still be the top dynamic  
  


anavel0 said:


> When did the new flagship talk start? I haven't even seen rumors of it. Did I miss something from RMAF?


 
 Frank just started it....
  
 Bugga..


----------



## whentheclouds

anavel0 said:


> When did the new flagship talk start? I haven't even seen rumors of it. Did I miss something from RMAF?


 
  
 it actually dates back to rumors originating from the MDR Z7 thread a few months ago


----------



## bearFNF

Yeah, it's actually come up a few times. Rumors about the "new flagship" or the "HD800 replacement" will continue to happen until they actually come out with something.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

bearfnf said:


> Yeah, it's actually come up a few times. Rumors about the "new flagship" or the "HD800 replacement" will continue to happen until they actually come out with something.


 

 True. Going back through old threads, I've seen posts of people saying they'd wait for Product XYZ to be released. Several years later, it hasn't happened. Years wasted waiting. However, the next greatest thing could be right around the corner.


----------



## 62ohm

It has been only 5 days of ownership with both, but I think I would have to conclude that the HD800 is still going to be 'the boss' in my stable. My opinion can still change of course, but I kinda doubt the K812 can triumph over the HD800. I mostly use it for my portable headphone now as at home listening to Mahler: Sinfonie Nr. 1 "Titan" and Sigur Ros - Takk... with the HD800 is simply a totally different experience than with the K812. The ethereal sound presentation definitely make for a more immersive listening experience to me.


----------



## Maxvla

Amp review is finally finished:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/740568/top-shelf-solid-state-with-hd800s


----------



## magiccabbage

maxvla said:


> Amp review is finally finished:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/740568/top-shelf-solid-state-with-hd800s


 
 yes!! Been waiting for this for a long time - thanks


----------



## icebear

maxvla said:


> Amp review is finally finished:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/740568/top-shelf-solid-state-with-hd800s


 

 Wow, what a piece of work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, although I'll have to verify the GSX-MkII & HD800 paring myself once I finally get mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 Thanks for time and effort !


----------



## pearljam50000

62ohm said:


> It has been only 5 days of ownership with both, but I think I would have to conclude that the HD800 is still going to be 'the boss' in my stable. My opinion can still change of course, but I kinda doubt the K812 can triumph over the HD800. I mostly use it for my portable headphone now as at home listening to Mahler: Sinfonie Nr. 1 "Titan" and Sigur Ros - Takk... with the HD800 is simply a totally different experience than with the K812. The ethereal sound presentation definitely make for a more immersive listening experience to me.




Instead of the K812, AKG should have re-make the K1000


----------



## RUMAY408

My current portable setup.
  
 AK 100ll>ALO balanced MKlllB+>balanced HD800


----------



## longbowbbs

rumay408 said:


> My current portable setup.
> 
> AK 100ll>ALO balanced MKlllB+>balanced HD800


 
 Sweet combo Randy!


----------



## longbowbbs

Current evening faire...
  
 HD800's with balanced Toxic Cable Silver Widow's, Geek Pulse X fi and LPS. Soundgarden Superunknown in DSD64


----------



## RingingEars

longbowbbs said:


> Current evening faire...
> 
> HD800's with balanced Toxic Cable Silver Widow's, Geek Pulse X fi and LPS. Soundgarden Superunknown in DSD64


 
 If that sounds as good as it looks it must sound amazing.


----------



## RUMAY408

longbowbbs said:


> Sweet combo Randy!


 

 Just scored the final piece of that combo today


----------



## Frank I

Nice setup Randy


----------



## whirlwind

ringingears said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Current evening faire...
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## MattTCG

Tonight I discovered Frazey Ford: Obadiah while using the 800 and Val 2. I guess that I'd classify this music as modern/progressive folk with a bluesy tilt. I had one of those transcendent moments where I lost complete track of time and was just melting into the music. Sweet, sweet bassline...very tight and extened. Sound stage is impressive with great spacing and ambience. Try this album out if you get the chance.


----------



## whirlwind

matttcg said:


> Tonight I discovered Frazey Ford: Obadiah while using the 800 and Val 2. I guess that I'd classify this music as modern/progressive folk with a bluesy tilt. I had one of those transcendent moments where I lost complete track of time and was just melting into the music. Sweet, sweet bassline...very tight and extened. Sound stage is impressive with great spacing and ambience. Try this album out if you get the chance.


 
  
 Say no more, my man!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

got my HD 800 back, Serial # 331XX, omg i can't believe they're in the 30s already lol.. they sound as good as ever with WA5 and GSX!!!


----------



## 62ohm

dubstep girl said:


> got my HD 800 back, Serial # 331XX, omg i can't believe they're in the 30s already lol.. they sound as good as ever with WA5 and GSX!!!


 
  
 Welcome back mate, we missed you!


----------



## Frank I

dubstep girl said:


> got my HD 800 back, Serial # 331XX, omg i can't believe they're in the 30s already lol.. they sound as good as ever with WA5 and GSX!!!


 
 DG it is a terrific reference tool  and my go to headphone when I want tom everything on the recording.  Great headphone.


----------



## punit

dubstep girl said:


> got my HD 800 back, Serial # 331XX, omg i can't believe they're in the 30s already lol.. they sound as good as ever with WA5 and GSX!!!


 

 Welcome back. About time.


----------



## Frank I

There are a few headphones I would never sell-maybe never sell any more of what I have but the HD800 is on that list as well a my other references. I am getting tempted to send mine out and paint it the black and lamborghini yellow to match my ViVa Egoista amp.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> got my HD 800 back, Serial # 331XX, omg i can't believe they're in the 30s already lol.. they sound as good as ever with WA5 and GSX!!!


 
 About time - Which is better for your HD800 - GSX or WA5?


----------



## llcook51

Wikipedia's entry for Frazey Ford states:
"Ford cites Rhythm and Blues singers Ann Peebles, Roberta Flack, and Donny Hathaway as influences, and this is evident in _Obadiah_.[size=xx-small]"[/size]
 I am listening to the album now on Spotify Premium. Great find.
 Thanks.


----------



## ogodei

llcook51 said:


> Wikipedia's entry for Frazey Ford states:
> "Ford cites Rhythm and Blues singers Ann Peebles, Roberta Flack, and Donny Hathaway as influences, and this is evident in _Obadiah_.[size=xx-small]"[/size]
> I am listening to the album now on Spotify Premium. Great find.
> Thanks.


 
  
 That is a great album.


----------



## llcook51

magiccabbage
  
 I love jazz and "Midnight Blue" is one of the best albums ever recorded. I am waiting on delivery of my HD800. Sublime listening awaits.


----------



## magiccabbage

llcook51 said:


> magiccabbage
> 
> I love jazz and "Midnight Blue" is one of the best albums ever recorded. I am waiting on delivery of my HD800. Sublime listening awaits.


 
 is it not folk?


----------



## chops1

Re: Frazey Ford - Obadiah.  Thanks guys!  I recorded and mixed that record.  Glad you are enjoying it.  Most of it was tracked to 2" 16 track analog, which accounts for some of the "warmth".  I did use my HD600's, but only to check for any clicks or pops in the final mixdown capture...
 FYI we just finished her new record called "Indian Ocean" and it's just come out on itunes etc...  For this one we went to Memphis and recorded with Al Green's rhythm section, the Hodges brothers.  Beautiful souls...
  
 J


----------



## Mortalcoil

chops1 said:


> Re: Frazey Ford - Obadiah.  Thanks guys!  I recorded and mixed that record.  Glad you are enjoying it.  Most of it was tracked to 2" 16 track analog, which accounts for some of the "warmth".  I did use my HD600's, but only to check for any clicks or pops in the final mixdown capture...
> FYI we just finished her new record called "Indian Ocean" and it's just come out on itunes etc...  For this one we went to Memphis and recorded with Al Green's rhythm section, the Hodges brothers.  Beautiful souls...
> 
> J


 

  From what I have heard of the album you did a great job .... nice work.
  
  Welcome to Head-Fi.


----------



## llcook51

Great job and welcome to "The Thread".


----------



## llcook51

magiccabbage said:


> is it not folk?


 
 Very cool "folk" at that.


----------



## chops1

Thanks guys. Long time lurker... Good to come above board!

J


----------



## RingingEars

Does any of you guys use the Havana dac with the HD800?
 My new zdac has to go back to Audio Advisor. It's toast 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Anyway, thinking of an NOS dac and I been eyeballin' the Havana.
  
 Edit: Never mind. Found my answer here http://www.head-fi.org/t/310441/mhdt-havana-dac/2475


----------



## MickeyVee

Well.. just got back from another trip to TAVES (Toronto AV Show).  From a previous post, was originally going to pick up the Naim HeadLine to match up with my DAC but took my HD800 down this time.  Walked out with a McIntosh MHA-100 (actually, a MXA70 which is the same thing - don't ask 
 Starting to get an idea of what the HD800 can do with some proper amping. Pics and comments to follow as it needs some break in time


----------



## ogodei

chops1 said:


> Re: Frazey Ford - Obadiah.  Thanks guys!  I recorded and mixed that record.  Glad you are enjoying it.  Most of it was tracked to 2" 16 track analog, which accounts for some of the "warmth".  I did use my HD600's, but only to check for any clicks or pops in the final mixdown capture...
> FYI we just finished her new record called "Indian Ocean" and it's just come out on itunes etc...  For this one we went to Memphis and recorded with Al Green's rhythm section, the Hodges brothers.  Beautiful souls...
> 
> J


 
  
 Absolutely loved Obadiah, didn't know the new album was out, just bought it.  Great work and welcome to Head-Fi.
  
 And if you see any posts by me stating I'm in love with Frazey (and there are a few around here) please don't mention it to her.


----------



## magiccabbage

ogodei said:


> Absolutely loved Obadiah, didn't know the new album was out, just bought it.  Great work and welcome to Head-Fi.
> 
> And if you see any posts by me stating I'm in love with Frazey (and there are a few around here) please don't mention it to her.


 
 Gonna get the album now


----------



## kazsud

dubstep girl said:


> got my HD 800 back, Serial # 331XX, omg i can't believe they're in the 30s already lol.. they sound as good as ever with WA5 and GSX!!!




Make sure you try balanced on the GSX.


----------



## punit

mickeyvee said:


> Well.. just got back from another trip to TAVES (Toronto AV Show).  From a previous post, was originally going to pick up the Naim HeadLine to match up with my DAC but took my HD800 down this time.  Walked out with a McIntosh MHA-100 (actually, a MXA70 which is the same thing - don't ask
> Starting to get an idea of what the HD800 can do with some proper amping. Pics and comments to follow as it needs some break in time


 

 From WA6 to MHA-100, You did not bother stopping on any of the lower floors & went straight to the penthouse.


----------



## whirlwind

punit said:


> mickeyvee said:
> 
> 
> > Well.. just got back from another trip to TAVES (Toronto AV Show).  From a previous post, was originally going to pick up the Naim HeadLine to match up with my DAC but took my HD800 down this time.  Walked out with a McIntosh MHA-100 (actually, a MXA70 which is the same thing - don't ask
> ...


 
 ha ha.....yes indeed....he sure did.


----------



## pearljam50000

I'm happy here at the basement(Geek Out 720)
(;


----------



## MickeyVee

@punit @whirlwind Thanks for the kind words.  Not sure it's the penthouse.  I had a chance to adution a lot of great dacs and amps at TAVES for much less money and probably very much in the same league.  I went with the MXA70(MHA100) because it is an all on one solution and I want to add speakers to my office some time in the future.
 It was also as much an emotional decision as I love the McIntosh look as much as I enjoy the sound.  This thing has a lot of kick, dynamics, extended on both ends and is quite musical.  Have to admit that I love the fromt panel with the meters also  This should hold off the upgaditis I've been severly suffering from over the past two years.


----------



## punit

Just out of curiosity did you also consider the Schiit Rag, since it also offers the same features (but not the looks) ?


----------



## MickeyVee

Yup, considered the Schiit Rag and read the awesome review.  Loved most of the Schiit stuff I owned.  Given that I'm in Canada, getting it, $ conversion, shipping and support if anything goes wrong would be a PIA. With the Mcintosh, I have the built in DAC, the looks, I'm a 1/2 hour drive to the dealer and it has a 5 year warranty.


----------



## Canadian411

mickeyvee said:


> Yup, considered the Schiit Rag and read the awesome review.  Loved most of the Schiit stuff I owned.  Given that I'm in Canada, getting it, $ conversion, shipping and support if anything goes wrong would be a PIA. With the Mcintosh, I have the built in DAC, the looks, I'm a 1/2 hour drive to the dealer and it has a 5 year warranty.




Me 2 in toronto. Where is the mcintosh dealer? My pref is just to buy from the local dealer than US due to heavy taxes and duty fees.


----------



## MickeyVee

Audio Excellence in Markham.  Got a good TAVES show deal.
 Quote:


canadian411 said:


> Me 2 in toronto. Where is the mcintosh dealer? My pref is just to buy from the local dealer than US due to heavy taxes and duty fees.


----------



## Canadian411

Thanks ! I will definitely visit.


----------



## ubs28

How much better does the HD800 get with an external amp? I'm currently using it with the Chord Hugo and I think it sounds very good. 
  
 I heard an other HD800 on a HDVD800 and I preferred my HD800 + Chord Hugo.


----------



## kazsud

ubs28 said:


> How much better does the HD800 get with an external amp? I'm currently using it with the Chord Hugo and I think it sounds very good.
> 
> I heard an other HD800 on a HDVD800 and I preferred my HD800 + Chord Hugo.




You should of hooked fed the Hugo to the hdvd800. It's well know the dac is the bottleneck on it.


----------



## spurxiii

I had a massive session last night with some led Zeppelin on the HD800s. The trouble is now is that my other IEMs and cans sound so lacklustre in comparison even though I was wowed by them. I've been using the HD800s quite a lot and getting so used to the sound it kind of stopped wowing me as much, but now I notice the detail deficiency in all else


----------



## RingingEars

spurxiii said:


> I had a massive session last night with some led Zeppelin on the HD800s. The trouble is now is that my other IEMs and cans sound so lacklustre in comparison even though I was wowed by them. I've been using the HD800s quite a lot and getting so used to the sound it kind of stopped wowing me as much, but now I notice the detail deficiency in all else


 
 That's the unfortunate thing about new gear. After while the wow wears off so you have to really like the sound signature from the get-go or else it's back on the merry-go-round...


----------



## whirlwind

spurxiii said:


> I had a massive session last night with some led Zeppelin on the HD800s. The trouble is now is that my other IEMs and cans sound so lacklustre in comparison even though I was wowed by them. I've been using the HD800s quite a lot and getting so used to the sound it kind of stopped wowing me as much, but now I notice the detail deficiency in all else


 
  Ha ha.....me too this past weekend on the Led Zep kick!


----------



## ogodei

whirlwind said:


> Ha ha.....me too this past weekend on the Led Zep kick!


 
  
 Loving the IV remaster.  Haven't popped the plastic on Houses of the Holy yet.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Are you guys talking about the recent HDtracks releases?


----------



## ogodei

birdmanofct said:


> Are you guys talking about the recent HDtracks releases?


 
  
 Page is remastering all the Zepplin albums, I, II & III came out in May I think, IV and Houses of the Holy were released October 27.  All kinds of remixes & extras, vinyl, etc.  I'm sure HDTracks put out a "Hi-Res" version of them too.


----------



## spurxiii

ringingears said:


> That's the unfortunate thing about new gear. After while the wow wears off so you have to really like the sound signature from the get-go or else it's back on the merry-go-round...




I didn't say it doesn't soubd good. I said it makes all my other gear sound bleh


----------



## zilch0md

At the moment, I'm rushing on how my HD800 chain is absolutely clobbering my LCD-2 rev.1 chain - playing Steely Dan's _Aja.  _
  
 That's saying a lot, given that I'm a die-hard LCD-2 fan. The cymbals are so right there. Nothing is harsh, nothing is lacking, and it's all wonderfully natural, with a realistic sense of the performing space. The HD800 chain is also rendering some very faint reverberations that are killer.
  
 FiiO X5 Coaxial Out > Metrum Octave MkII > NuForce HA-200 > stock Sennheiser cable > modded HD800
  
 vs. 
  
 FiiO X5 Coaxial Out > Metrum Octave MkII > OPPO HA-1 balanced out > Toxic Cables Silver Poison > LCD-2 rev.1
  
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Somphon

ringingears said:


> That's the unfortunate thing about new gear. After while the wow wears off so you have to really like the sound signature from the get-go or else it's back on the merry-go-round...


 

 Getting them home for audition is the best way to go, but many don't have that chance. I got to demo ifi micro and was wow and wow for couple of days then lose interests - returned. I know many people who go on a merry-go-round and they all have one thing in common... they like gear more than music.


----------



## MattTCG

I recently decided to break out the craft tools and make the Anax mod per innerfidelity. Overall I'm very happy with the results and don't plan to go back. This is my rig:
  
 pc>usb>uberfrost>moon audio Black Dragon IC's>Valhalla 2>modded hd800 (stock cable).  I've ordered the Norne Audio Draug 2 and hopefully will have it soon.
  
 How many of you are using the 800 modded, just curious.


----------



## 50Hz

matttcg said:


> I recently decided to break out the craft tools and make the Anax mod per innerfidelity. Overall I'm very happy with the results and don't plan to go back. This is my rig:
> 
> pc>usb>uberfrost>moon audio Black Dragon IC's>Valhalla 2>modded hd800 (stock cable).  I've ordered the Norne Audio Draug 2 and hopefully will have it soon.
> 
> How many of you are using the 800 modded, just curious.


 
 You know that you can just give an eq a little tweek rather than physically modifying your headphones if you're after a tonal shift aye?


----------



## MattTCG

50hz said:


> You know that you can just give an eq a little tweek rather than physically modifying your headphones if you're after a tonal shift aye?


 
  
 Yes, so I've heard. AND I really don't want to start that debate here. The Anax mod has given me better results and I'm very satisfied with the results.


----------



## spurxiii

matttcg said:


> I recently decided to break out the craft tools and make the Anax mod per innerfidelity. Overall I'm very happy with the results and don't plan to go back. This is my rig:
> 
> pc>usb>uberfrost>moon audio Black Dragon IC's>Valhalla 2>modded hd800 (stock cable).  I've ordered the Norne Audio Draug 2 and hopefully will have it soon.
> 
> How many of you are using the 800 modded, just curious.


 
 Anax mod on mine makes it slightly smoother. I've also got the blue dragon cable to smooth it out even further. As you can see I'm no treble head. Listening to Eric Clapton unplugged atm and half way through,  its so awesome. I can't wait to find a decent DAC


----------



## 50Hz

matttcg said:


> Yes, so I've heard. AND I really don't want to start that debate here. The Anax mod has given me better results and I'm very satisfied with the results.


 
  
 The problem with mods like these is that it's impossible to A/B the resulting tonal change to in order to determine whether the mod has changed things for the better. Also unless you have sophisticated measurement equipment to record before and after results you're not sure whether you've hit the mark or failed... Maybe you do.


----------



## spurxiii

50hz said:


> The problem with mods like these is that it's impossible to A/B the resulting tonal change to in order to determine whether the mod has changed things for the better. Also unless you have sophisticated measurement equipment to record before and after results you're not sure whether you've hit the mark or failed... Maybe you do.


 
 I don't know what the change is exactly and you're right, you can't A/B the change it but at least now I can really enjoy the cans and sit back and listen to it fatigue free for hours. Maybe the change has done something psychological, but whatever works.


----------



## Sorrodje

No mod here.  Not tested Yet.
  
  
 Thus far , I'm still extremely happy with the DAC Beresford Caiman mkII. This dac sounds IMO almost as analogic as the Metrum Octabe but brings (still in my opinion) more excitement, more transparency and a better 3D soundstage to the table. I'm currently thinking about selling the Metrum.. and that says something because I love the Metrum sound.


----------



## icebear

matttcg said:


> Yes, so I've heard. AND I really don't want to start that debate here. The Anax mod has given me better results and *I'm very satisfied with the results.*


 
 That is the only thing which is really important 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
 The debate thing will get ugly anway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## 50Hz

spurxiii said:


> I don't know what the change is exactly and you're right, you can't A/B the change it but at least now I can really enjoy the cans and sit back and listen to it fatigue free for hours. Maybe the change has done something psychological, but whatever works.


 
  
 Haha whatever works is a great moto. Nice one man. Enjoy!


----------



## 50Hz

icebear said:


> That is the only thing which is really important
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Definitely can't be bothered getting into a big debate about it. I can only suggest people give EQ a go if they've never tried it. You might like the results. 
  
 At the end of the day all every single part of the music you're listening too has been eq'd and there's certainly nothing wrong with using it to adjust the tonal balance of your cans if you find them a bit bright.


----------



## PleasantSounds

50hz said:


> You know that you can just give an eq a little tweek rather than physically modifying your headphones if you're after a tonal shift aye?


 
  
 The main purpose of the anax mod is to reduce ringing at specific frequencies.
 I doubt you can get that through eq.


----------



## freedom01

5 years late to this party.
 But better late than never.
  

  
  
 S/N 33XXX
  
 Feels great to join you guys here


----------



## 50Hz

pleasantsounds said:


> The main purpose of the anax mod is to reduce ringing at specific frequencies.
> I doubt you can get that through eq.


 
  
 That's correct. As ringing as in the time domain. 
  
 That said... HD800s are very capable headphones and I don't think the small amount of ringing is the main issue most have with them. Most just want the HD800s to be a little smoother in the high end. Something that can easily be accomplished with eq.


----------



## 62ohm

freedom01 said:


> 5 years late to this party.
> But better late than never.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome to the club mate! What amp/dac are you using with it at the moment, if I may ask?


----------



## freedom01

62ohm said:


> Welcome to the club mate, what amp/dac are you using with it at the moment, if I may ask?


 

 ifi idsd micro
  
 hmm i know that's far from ideal, but gotta pick up this hobby slowly and steadily


----------



## BirdManOfCT

freedom01 said:


> 5 years late to this party.
> But better late than never.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm another "late" joiner, too. Just a month ago or so. I'm listening to a lot more music, again, which is good.


----------



## freedom01

birdmanofct said:


> I'm another "late" joiner, too. Just a month ago or so. I'm listening to a lot more music, again, which is good.


 
 Thank mate. Welcome to the club too !
 Listening to music is a way to de-stress.
 It's healthy


----------



## analog'd

happy to report no ringing in my unmodded HD800s. well, cardas blue cable is a mod, but...
  
 I think it's great that somebody that is getting a ringing of any kind has found a mod that solved the problem and maybe even delivered an overall improvement (in the highs or where ever).
  
 I myself am too chicken to mod headphones that I love. I had the outter "cages" removed professionally on my pair of akg K1000's years ago (by Stefan audio while recabling them) and admit to never knowing if it made a difference. only mod I ever made except reverting to flats on grado rs1/rs1i's.


----------



## magiccabbage

matttcg said:


> I recently decided to break out the craft tools and make the Anax mod per innerfidelity. Overall I'm very happy with the results and don't plan to go back. This is my rig:
> 
> pc>usb>uberfrost>moon audio Black Dragon IC's>Valhalla 2>modded hd800 (stock cable).  I've ordered the Norne Audio Draug 2 and hopefully will have it soon.
> 
> How many of you are using the 800 modded, just curious.


 
 Let me know how you get on with that cable - im interested, have my on it since Rumay talked about those changes he heard


----------



## LugBug1

No mods here.. I like my HD800's how I like my women. No extra bits of cloth or foam stuck to em with sticky tape etc.
  
 Though... If I could stop the 'ringing' effect that my wife's voice seems to be afflicted with, I might consider it!


----------



## Sorrodje

lugbug1 said:


> Though... If I could stop the 'ringing' effect that my wife's voice seems to be afflicted with, I might consider it!


 
   
 

 Foam and duck tapes should be useful. Not easy to do and even more dangerous to remove though.


----------



## 62ohm

sorrodje said:


> lugbug1 said:
> 
> 
> > Though... If I could stop the 'ringing' effect that my wife's voice seems to be afflicted with, I might consider it!
> ...


 
  
 I'm not quite sure that would be legal


----------



## Canadian411

lugbug1 said:


> No mods here.. I like my HD800's how I like my women. No extra bits of cloth or foam stuck to em with sticky tape etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


+1, I like the way it sounds without any modification,


----------



## bearFNF

No mods other than a longer more flexible cable here.


----------



## longbowbbs

Same here....Toxic Cables Silver Widows with stock HD800's. Love them!


----------



## Somphon

canadian411 said:


> lugbug1 said:
> 
> 
> > No mods here.. I like my HD800's how I like my women. No extra bits of cloth or foam stuck to em with sticky tape etc.
> ...


 
  
 Agreed. I tried the mod for couple of weeks and finally decided to take it off.
 Losing the 90% I love to improve the missing 10% was not what I was looking for.
  
 Its great as is.


----------



## pearljam50000

freedom01 said:


> 5 years late to this party.
> But better late than never.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What is that "concierge" thing? i never had it on my box...


----------



## analog'd

totally different drivers with the concierge thing on the box.
  
 kidding.


----------



## longbowbbs

pearljam50000 said:


> freedom01 said:
> 
> 
> > 5 years late to this party.
> ...


 
 German Scientists come over to open the hermetically sealed box and place the unit on your head while wearing lint free white gloves.....


----------



## RingingEars

No mods here either other than a Norne Draug2...


----------



## akhyar

pearljam50000 said:


> What is that "concierge" thing? i never had it on my box...




That is for Singapore's market


----------



## Priidik

50hz said:


> That's correct. As ringing as in the time domain.
> 
> That said... HD800s are very capable headphones and I don't think the small amount of ringing is the main issue most have with them. Most just want the HD800s to be a little smoother in the high end. Something that can easily be accomplished with eq.


 
 Eq does not make them smoother, rather just dull. IMO at this level of hi-fi digital sound alterations are harmful to the net result.
 Proper chain is what the HD800 needs +maybe some modding for the standing waves area.
 To my ears the usual 6-8k area is not a real problem from a decent amp and dac. I'm however finding there is a bit of emphasis at around 2.8kHz.


----------



## freedom01

pearljam50000 said:


> What is that "concierge" thing? i never had it on my box...



Bought this back in my country. 
When we register for this concierge service(upon purchase), it allows us to service the headphone at our doorstep. Meaning the staff will collect it from us and deliver back to us when it is done. A loan unit will be available during the service period as well. For a period of 2 years.


----------



## rgs9200m

I switched to balanced mode with Senn's own balanced cable and can't go back. (It's been about 2 months now, so I'm confident in my impressions.)
 The sound is fuller with more ease and really helps with the 800's well known problematic areas precisely.
 (I have no mods on mine.)


----------



## ogodei

Headphone lounge balanced cables, otherwise stock.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I have a GREAT set of balanced cables for my Senn HD 800s, custom made in red and black (to match my HD 800 and HDVD 800 as in my avatar) by head-fi member zabzaf.  He also kindly included a single-ended-to-balanced pigtail, so I can quickly switch between balanced and single ended for comparison.
  
 When I first tried his cable in balanced mode, the soundstage became MUCH wider and the vocalist that was at center stage in single ended mode became just off center.  Overall tone was darker and bass was deeper, perhaps addressing the concern of those folks how find a bit a stridency in the HD 800 high end (I never did). I then tried his cable with pigtail converter in single-ended mode, comparing it to the stock Sennheiser single-ended cable that came with the headphones.  It sounded a bit better... a little faster and brighter, and the vocalist returned to center stage!
  
 A picture is worth 1,000 words...


----------



## preproman

somphon said:


> Agreed. I tried the mod for couple of weeks and finally decided to take it off.
> Losing the 90% I love to improve the missing 10% was not what I was looking for.
> 
> Its great as is.


 
  
 +1 same here.  I heard two different pair with that mod.  Took away what I like about the HD800s.  However,  I did get a hardwire mod from SAA.


----------



## 50Hz

priidik said:


> IMO at this level of hi-fi digital sound alterations are harmful to the net result.


 
  
 I absolutely believe it's the other way around. DSP room correction technology for speakers has already become pretty standard and eventually it will be the same with headphones IMO.


----------



## Somphon

preproman said:


> +1 same here.  I heard two different pair with that mod.  Took away what I like about the HD800s.  However,  I did get a hardwire mod from SAA.


 

 Just check SAA's site and the mod sounds fantastic.


----------



## zilch0md

Spoiler: No Mod Protagonists (who apparently have proper DACs and amps for the HD800)



Quote:


canadian411 said:


> lugbug1 said:
> 
> 
> > No mods here.. I like my HD800's how I like my women. No extra bits of cloth or foam stuck to em with sticky tape etc.
> ...


 
  
  


bearfnf said:


> No mods other than a longer more flexible cable here.


 
  
  


longbowbbs said:


> Same here....Toxic Cables Silver Widows with stock HD800's. Love them!


 
  
  


somphon said:


> Agreed. I tried the mod for couple of weeks and finally decided to take it off.
> Losing the 90% I love to improve the missing 10% was not what I was looking for.
> 
> Its great as is.


 
  
  


ringingears said:


> No mods here either other than a Norne Draug2...


 
  
  


priidik said:


> Eq does not make them smoother, rather just dull. IMO at this level of hi-fi digital sound alterations are harmful to the net result.
> Proper chain is what the HD800 needs +maybe some modding for the standing waves area.
> To my ears the usual 6-8k area is not a real problem from a decent amp and dac. I'm however finding there is a bit of emphasis at around 2.8kHz.


 
  
  


ogodei said:


> Headphone lounge balanced cables, otherwise stock.


 
  
  


preproman said:


> +1 same here.  I heard two different pair with that mod.  Took away what I like about the HD800s.  However,  I did get a hardwire mod from SAA.


 
  
  


  
 Summarizing my HD800 journey, as documented in numerous earlier posts here...
  
 Before I got a Metrum Octave MkII and NuForce HA-200, when I was still trying to use my HD800 with the OPPO HA-1's ESS9018 DAC and multi-stage amp (i.e. lots of negative feedback), my HD800 was not happy.  
  
 I spent a weekend starting with the Anax 2.0 mod, then modding the mod, and modding that mod, etc. until I finally came up with this:
  

  

  
 I thought I had hit on the perfect solution (at least for use with the OPPO HA-1 DAC and amp.)  But during the following week, I kept noticing that, occasionally, I would hear a cupped-hands sort of honking in the low mids, that was really annoying.  It only happened with certain songs in a narrow frequency band.  So, after about a a week of using the mod, I decided to take it out and go "natural" again. 
  
 Wow!  I was stunned by how much I had been missing with all that stuffing inside my HD800. The harsh shrillness (of the OPPO HA-1 and every other desktop and portable DAC and amp combination I owned at the time) was back, but so were a lot of very desirable traits that the HD800 delivers like no other headphone I've heard - imaging, sound stage, resolution, etc. - it all improved when I removed my Anax 37.0 mod.  
  
 I had been reading about NOS DACs and took the plunge with the Octave MkII - a huge improvement for the HD800, even with the HA-1 amp, but Cees Ruijtenberg (designer of Metrum gear) advised me via email that the remaining edginess I was hearing with the HA-1 amp section was most likely due to its use of negative feedback. He didn't so much as hint that his Metrum Aurix amp happens to be a zero-feedback design, but rather than spend money there or on something like the zero-feedback Audio-gd Master 9, reviews of the $350 single-ended, low-feedback, Class A NuForce HA-200, by Mike Mercer and Armaegis (with two HA-200's in balanced mode), encouraged me to try it, instead.
  
 I bought two HA-200's but left one of them unopened.  BINGO!  With the Octave MkII, just one HA-200 is so much nicer for the HD800 than the HA-1's amp (or any other desktop or portable amp I have) - I didn't even bother to take the second HA-200 out of the box. Also not wanting to go to the trouble of getting an unbalanced to balanced transformer and all the cables necessary to use my unbalanced Octave MkII with dual HA-200's in balanced mode, I sold the unopened HA-200.  
  
 With fatigue no longer an issue, there was still a lingering brightness (at least for the tastes of an LCD-2 rev.1 fan), so I decided to try my hand at Currawong's HD800 mod and have settled on using this thin felt ring around the drivers - nothing else:
  

  
 All those desirable traits that had been affected by my Anax 37.0 mod remain intact with this mod - just covering the smooth metal ring that surrounds the driver with a very thin self-adhesive felt that doesn't block the driver's "view" of the interior of the HD800.
  
 So, basically, I've ended up being very much like you happy campers I've quoted in the spoiler, above, having learned that a "compatible" DAC and amp are the best way to preserve all that an HD800 brings to the table, but this last little mod has put the polishing touches on a good NOS DAC and a relatively inexpensive solid state amp.
  
 Mike


----------



## Taowolf51

priidik said:


> Eq does not make them smoother, rather just dull. IMO at this level of hi-fi digital sound alterations are harmful to the net result.
> Proper chain is what the HD800 needs +maybe some modding for the standing waves area.
> To my ears the usual 6-8k area is not a real problem from a decent amp and dac. I'm however finding there is a bit of emphasis at around 2.8kHz.


 
  
 That's not true at all, if it were, just about every song would sound dull on the HD800's. Digital EQ's are used frequently during production, so unless you only listen to raw recordings or music and pressings more than 20 years old (where analog EQ's were used), it's very very likely that the music you are listening to has had multiple digital EQ's applied to it. Either the EQ you were using was a poor quality graphic EQ, or you didn't take the time to dial it in to your tastes.


----------



## ubs28

50hz said:


> I absolutely believe it's the other way around. DSP room correction technology for speakers has already become pretty standard and eventually it will be the same with headphones IMO.


 

 Speakers sound differently depending on the room. Headphones don't have this issue.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

ubs28 said:


> Speakers sound differently depending on the room. Headphones don't have this issue.


They do slightly though. There's aspects like head shape, ear shape, and designing the inside of the cups to reduce distortion. The HD800's are actually a great example of a very well designed headphone in relation to these qualities. Of course, it's nothing compared to a speaker system... but unless you're aiming for practically perfect sound or using a panel speaker (open baffle, planar, or electrostatic) I find in a decent room they don't usually require treatment.

It's actually quite rare I find that in a true hi-fi stereo someone uses a room correction equalizer. Most people if they find room correction is needed use a combination of diffraction panels, bass traps, and sound absorption panels.


----------



## kazsud

taowolf51 said:


> That's not true at all, if it were, just about every song would sound dull on the HD800's. Digital EQ's are used frequently during production, so unless you only listen to raw recordings or music and pressings more than 20 years old (where analog EQ's were used), it's very very likely that the music you are listening to has had multiple digital EQ's applied to it. Either the EQ you were using was a poor quality graphic EQ, or you didn't take the time to dial it in to your tastes.


 

 Digital eqs in iTunes & foobar2000 are not like the digital eqs used for mixing.


----------



## analog'd

kazsud said:


> taowolf51 said:
> 
> 
> > That's not true at all, if it were, just about every song would sound dull on the HD800's. Digital EQ's are used frequently during production, so unless you only listen to raw recordings or music and pressings more than 20 years old (where analog EQ's were used), it's very very likely that the music you are listening to has had multiple digital EQ's applied to it. Either the EQ you were using was a poor quality graphic EQ, or you didn't take the time to dial it in to your tastes.
> ...


 

 how do they differ? (a question, not a challenge).


----------



## dxanex

Hello! I've finally decided to take the plunge on the HD800 but I own the HD 650 and HD 700 and one of them needs to go first. I really enjoy both headphones for different traits...
  
 My question is which one would best complement the HD800? Anyone here have extensive experience or own all three?


----------



## longbowbbs

Keep the 650's.....


----------



## Revogamer

+1 to keeping the 650's - the HD700's are sort of a middle ground between the two so wouldn't really be worth keeping as well as the others.. (imho)


----------



## preproman

I would keep the 650s and the 600s before I keep the 700s..


----------



## dxanex

Looks like there's a consensus forming here. I was kind of leaning towards selling off the HD 700. Even when I haven't used the HD 650 for a long period of time, I'm always pleased by the sound when I return to them.


----------



## ogodei

+2 ( or 3 or 4, I've lost count) on 650s to compliment 800s.


----------



## MattTCG

Keep the 650's. They with the 800 are my end game pair.


----------



## MickeyVee

Not to be a fly in the ointment, but is there really any compliment to the HD800?  Every time I've tried to find a compliment, I end up going back to the HD800 for 90% of my listening and eventually end up selling off the second pair.  I've had the HE560 for almost 2 months and now it's going up for sale.  I'm giving up on the idea of a complimentary headphone.
 Maybe I'm just a one headphone kind of guy.


----------



## 62ohm

mickeyvee said:


> Not to be a fly in the ointment, but is there really any compliment to the HD800?  Every time I've tried to find a compliment, I end up going back to the HD800 for 90% of my listening and eventually end up selling off the second pair.  I've had the HE560 for almost 2 months and now it's going up for sale.  I'm giving up on the idea of a complimentary headphone.
> Maybe I'm just a one headphone kind of guy.


 
  
 Same here, I'm currently contemplating on selling the HD650. The K812 would be up for sale too, if not for its portability (I'm using it as my portable headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Drsparis

Look for a HE-5 and then talk to LFF  To me they are like a HD800 X 110% (that is for imaging, soundstage and detail retrieval) then polished down to a bit under the level of the HD800. So smooth everywhere, yet i dont feel like its lacking anything (as are most headphones when compared to the HD800's) . Then add warmth and amazing tight bass.
  
 I'm bad at descriptions, but love both sounds... I have phases that one get more headtime than the other


----------



## MattTCG

mickeyvee said:


> Not to be a fly in the ointment, but is there really any compliment to the HD800?  Every time I've tried to find a compliment, I end up going back to the HD800 for 90% of my listening and eventually end up selling off the second pair.  I've had the HE560 for almost 2 months and now it's going up for sale.  I'm giving up on the idea of a complimentary headphone.
> Maybe I'm just a one headphone kind of guy.


 
  
 I understand your position. For me, the 650 just has that lush liquid signature that I can listen to even when I'm tired and get no fatigue.


----------



## MickeyVee

I liked the K812 when I auditioned them even out of my iPhone.  Thinking of just getting the HE400i for portability (if you can call it that) with my iPhone6or AK 100 MkII and it will never see my main HP system. Then call it quits.  The HD800 and MHA100 is pretty much as close the end-game as I will probably ever get.  Maybe now I can work on getting my wife the new kitchen she wants.  I've been pretty selfish. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Quote:


62ohm said:


> Same here, I'm currently contemplating on selling the HD650. The K812 would be up for sale too, if not for its portability (I'm using it as my portable headphone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Mortalcoil

mickeyvee said:


> Not to be a fly in the ointment, but is there really any compliment to the HD800?  Every time I've tried to find a compliment, I end up going back to the HD800 for 90% of my listening and eventually end up selling off the second pair.  I've had the HE560 for almost 2 months and now it's going up for sale.  I'm giving up on the idea of a complimentary headphone.
> Maybe I'm just a one headphone kind of guy.


 

  Good point MickeyVee.
  
 Perhaps the only true "complimentary" headphone would be of the closed back variety.


----------



## analog'd

I find the HD800 combined with the audeze lcd3c to be my perfect pair.
 I use both extensively with all genres - depends a lot on the recording which pleases me the most. or on my mood as with sublime recordings they are both incredible.


----------



## Taowolf51

kazsud said:


> Digital eqs in iTunes & foobar2000 are not like the digital eqs used for mixing.


 
  
 Right, and they fit into the "crappy graphic EQ's" I mentioned, and are things I would never recommend.
  
 I'm talking about stuff like EqualizerAPO, higher end parametric EQ's, and dedicated digital EQ hardware like the MiniDSP. They're far from what you're used to with iTunes EQ's, and are much much closer (perhaps sonically identical) to higher end EQ's you'd find in software like ProTools and Logic.


----------



## Revogamer

Agree with the above, only way to complement the HD800's is with a headphone of the same calibre (LCD-3 or such)


----------



## dxanex

revogamer said:


> Agree with the above, only way to complement the HD800's is with a headphone of the same calibre (LCD-3 or such)




That's far outside my budget so sadly the HD 650 will have to do for me


----------



## Priidik

taowolf51 said:


> That's not true at all, if it were, just about every song would sound dull on the HD800's. Digital EQ's are used frequently during production, so unless you only listen to raw recordings or music and pressings more than 20 years old (where analog EQ's were used), it's very very likely that the music you are listening to has had multiple digital EQ's applied to it. Either the EQ you were using was a poor quality graphic EQ, or you didn't take the time to dial it in to your tastes.


 
  I've been in music production myself. And great analog synths or well recorded acoustical instruments mixed in sound dull to me when eq-d. I have tried it myself with most popular eq trials.
 Just about every other song out there does sound dull to me. Maybe it is because of use of excessive eq-ing. I'm not seasoned sound engineer , maybe someone experienced can chime in and put me in place. In my experience eq is just the easy way, rarely the only way to balance out the final master.
 I encourage anyone to plug your phones directly to an analog synth. Its way better sounding than most recordings, though not all.


----------



## Priidik

50hz said:


> I absolutely believe it's the other way around. DSP room correction technology for speakers has already become pretty standard and eventually it will be the same with headphones IMO.


 
 Try listening speakers dsp'd vs speakers in a treated room. I see the merits of room dsp-s , its convenient and gives really decent result but so far from what i have heard from top shelf studio monitors (Genelec 8260) dsp-d sound is not creally there sq wise. For music listening tasks i would not use it.
 Same with HD800, digital crossfeeds and eq-s all sound wrong to me. Lately have been more and more into pure bit perfect playback.
 To each their own i guess.


----------



## MickeyVee

Hear, Hear.. totally agree. I was pretty excited about the HXD crossfeed option in the McIntosh MHA100. Meh! It destroyed the imaging on both the HD800 and HE560 making them sound very unnatural to me.  I know good speaker imaging having Martin logan Stats in my main  system.
 On another note, I've never had any luck with any sort of EQ, even the advanced EQ in Audirvana Plus.  But the Bass Boost on the MHA100 is sublime.  It adds life and body to poorly recoded source material with nigh a sign of distortion nor unnaturalness in the sound.  Maybe its an analog implementation or a very good digital enhancement.. no mater, it works very, very well.
  
  
 Quote:


priidik said:


> Same with HD800, digital crossfeeds and eq-s all sound wrong to me. Lately have been more and more into pure bit perfect playback.


----------



## RUMAY408

dxanex said:


> That's far outside my budget so sadly the HD 650 will have to do for me


 

 I have the HD650 and recently heard the HD700, the HD800 will put a smile back on your face.
  
 The HD650 is a nice complementary HP that sounds just enough different for a change of pace.
 I keep mine at the office as it's a less devastating loss if broken or stolen than the HD800.


----------



## screwdriver

I did Bid farewell to my sennheiser Hd800 . maybe someday again ........


----------



## Sorrodje

drsparis said:


> Look for a HE-5 and then talk to LFF  To me they are like a HD800 X 110% (that is for imaging, soundstage and detail retrieval) then polished down to a bit under the level of the HD800. So smooth everywhere, yet i dont feel like its lacking anything (as are most headphones when compared to the HD800's) . Then add warmth and amazing tight bass.
> 
> I'm bad at descriptions, but love both sounds... I have phases that one get more headtime than the other




Do you use the code-x as a complementary headphone for the hd800 or to replace it?


----------



## navigavi

I have the 580's and the 800's. The 800's for the home rig, the 580 for the office without amp or dac, and as source spotify. The 580's sound good even without proper amping. It's just a very allround headphone. 580's, 600's and 650's are very much alike.


----------



## kothganesh

screwdriver said:


> I did Bid farewell to my sennheiser Hd800 . maybe someday again ........


 

 That Stratos and HE 6 did the trick eh?


----------



## 50Hz

priidik said:


> Try listening speakers dsp'd vs speakers in a treated room. I see the merits of room dsp-s , its convenient and gives really decent result but so far from what i have heard from top shelf studio monitors (Genelec 8260) dsp-d sound is not creally there sq wise. For music listening tasks i would not use it.
> Same with HD800, digital crossfeeds and eq-s all sound wrong to me. Lately have been more and more into pure bit perfect playback.
> To each their own i guess.


 
  
 When talking about speakers an acoustically treated room is obviously the most important step in creating a good listening environment, however study's have shown that room correction can be a nice icing on the cake.  Here's an interesting blog post about a study done by Sean Olive and the guys at Harmon. (and they have an amazing listening room already)
  
 http://seanolive.blogspot.co.nz/2009/11/subjective-and-objective-evaluation-of.html
  
  
 In regard to headphones I'm talking more about using eq to closer match specific target curves. In this double blind study researches developed some really cool technology that allowed them to use a pair of Sennheiser HD 518 headpones to clone the response curve of other headphones and apply certain target curves. To make a long story short the researchers found that people liked headphones that mimic the sound of good speakers in a good room.
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/harman-researchers-make-important-headway-understanding-headphone-response
  
 Here's a slide presentation summarizing the findings
  
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16343460/Olive%20ALMA%202014%20Winter%20Symposium%20Headphone%20Talk%20copy.key.pdf
  
  
 Here's another couple of articles from Innerfidelity that talk further about these target curves
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-target-response-curve-research-update
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/first-test-estimated-harman-target-response-curve-various-headphones
  
 Interestingly AKG is supposedly releasing a pair of headphones this year that will meet this target curve.


----------



## Canadian411

dxanex said:


> Hello! I've finally decided to take the plunge on the HD800 but I own the HD 650 and HD 700 and one of them needs to go first. I really enjoy both headphones for different traits...
> 
> My question is which one would best complement the HD800? Anyone here have extensive experience or own all three?


 
  650 of course  I never liked HD700,


----------



## Dopaminer

canadian411 said:


> 650 of course  I never liked HD700,


 

 I agree : keep the 650.  You`ll get more for the 700 sale. I never like its sound either.


----------



## maclenltd

Anyone have any inside tips for listening to vinyl (all analog) with their HD800s? I can obviously take an output and amp it up with a newer headphone amp but then it is unnecessarily converted to a digital stream. Has anyone had success using the HD800 with vintage headphone amps or vintage stereos? Or, are the HD800s not well suited for vinyl since they are so revealing?
 EDIT: sorry, I was confused because my amp has a DAC built-in. I now realize that I can use any headphone amp without a DAC to achieve an analog chain.


----------



## audiokid

Hi

What would you guys recommend out of the HDVA 600, the Lehmann Black Cube Linear (or something else?) with the HD800. I'm not looking to spend any more than £1200 and don't really want to be going down the valve route. I also want the amp to be fairly compact for the desk.

Alternatively, should I use my Chord Hugo for amp duties as well as the dac? Am I missing out on anything by not adding a dedicated amp?

Thanks


----------



## Eternal Phoenix

maclenltd said:


> I can obviously take an output and amp it up with a newer headphone amp but then it is unnecessarily converted to a digital stream.


 
  
 Am I missing something here? - You want to amp the output, yes?  Where is the digital stream coming from?
  
  
 If I am understanding this correctly, then you have NO digital stream as you would just feed your phono pre-amp directly into the analogue inputs of the headphone amp.
  
 The digital would come if you were using a DAC to feed the amp, however as you're coming direct from a turntable, the alternate source is unnecessary.

 The only thing I can think you're thinking is an integrated DAC/Amp in which case, you'd still just use the analogue inputs and bypass the internal amp.
  
 Hope this helps


----------



## MattTCG

maclenltd said:


> Anyone have any inside tips for listening to vinyl (all analog) with their HD800s? I can obviously take an output and amp it up with a newer headphone amp but then it is unnecessarily converted to a digital stream. Has anyone had success using the HD800 with vintage headphone amps or vintage stereos? Or, are the HD800s not well suited for vinyl since they are so revealing?


 
  
 There is a ton of information about vintage amps with hp's on the calling all vintage amp/receiver thread. Personally I've found that the vintage amps/receivers sound fantastic with planar mag hp's, but sometimes the noise floor is high with dynamic driver/traditional hp's. I believe that Oregonian has had good success with the 800 and vintage gear. You might ask him directly.
  
 gL...


----------



## maclenltd

eternal phoenix said:


> Am I missing something here? - You want to amp the output, yes?  Where is the digital stream coming from?
> 
> 
> If I am understanding this correctly, then you have NO digital stream as you would just feed your phono pre-amp directly into the analogue inputs of the headphone amp.
> ...


 
  Thank you for clarifying this. I think I was confusing myself. The amp that I am using has a DAC built-in and there doesn't seem to be a way to bypass it. That being said, your advice to take the output from my phono preamp into a headphone amp without a DAC would definitely work. I can't believe I didn't think about that.


----------



## Eternal Phoenix

maclenltd said:


> Thank you for clarifying this. I think I was confusing myself. The amp that I am using has a DAC built-in and there doesn't seem to be a way to bypass it. That being said, your advice to take the output from my phono preamp into a headphone amp without a DAC would definitely work. I can't believe I didn't think about that.


 
  
 In that case - what Integrated amp/DAC are you using? and maybe head-fi's gear heads can attempt to solve your input issue!


----------



## Priidik

50hz said:


> In regard to headphones I'm talking more about using eq to closer match specific target curves. In this double blind study researches developed some really cool technology that allowed them to use a pair of Sennheiser HD 518 headpones to clone the response curve of other headphones and apply certain target curves. To make a long story short the researchers found that people liked headphones that mimic the sound of good speakers in a good room.


 
 That's swell, but there are other technicalities, more important than the target curve.  DSP-d HD202 can not sound the same as HD800, won't you agree?
  
 I'm newb to tech behind digital eq-s, but the best i have heard is Apple AU parametric in Logic, even from among many proffessional offers. Digital lin phase eq tries to rebuild phase, right? In any case it is lossy. 
  
 I wonder what the HD800 would sound like if it was tuned according to Harman reference. Many would ditch their planars for sure.


----------



## LugBug1

maclenltd said:


> Anyone have any inside tips for listening to vinyl (all analog) with their HD800s? I can obviously take an output and amp it up with a newer headphone amp but then it is unnecessarily converted to a digital stream. Has anyone had success using the HD800 with vintage headphone amps or vintage stereos? Or, are the HD800s not well suited for vinyl since they are so revealing?
> EDIT: sorry, I was confused because my amp has a DAC built-in. I now realize that I can use any headphone amp without a DAC to achieve an analog chain.


 
 IME, the HD800 are a little too sensitive for most vintage amps from the 70's. They sound different than dedicated ss amps with a bigger stronger (but less tight) bass but 95 percent of the vintage amps I trialled with the Senn's (approx 12 including Pioneer, Sansui, Marantz etc) displayed some hiss because of the sensitivity and high impedance. Some more than others...  I found a much better match with NAD amps from the 80's as these have a much lower impedance out and I think they are a brilliant match - vintage analogue smoothness and loadsa power! They're all I use these days. 
  
 At the end of the day, the HD800 are all about transparency so there is no reason at all why vinyl won't sound cracking (not crackling!) from a decent turntable.


----------



## 50Hz

priidik said:


> That's swell, but there are other technicalities, more important than the target curve.  DSP-d HD202 can not sound the same as HD800, won't you agree?
> 
> I'm newb to tech behind digital eq-s, but the best i have heard is Apple AU parametric in Logic, even from among many proffessional offers. Digital lin phase eq tries to rebuild phase, right? In any case it is lossy.
> 
> I wonder what the HD800 would sound like if it was tuned according to Harman reference. Many would ditch their planars for sure.


 
  
 Yes very true! Even with a matching frequency curve my Focal Spirit Pros will never sound like my LCD-X as spacially they sound so different. I would love it if my LCD-X had the same frequency curve as the Focals. I think you'd have an amazing headphone if you could combine the two.
  
 Any eq in Logic would be excellent. The thing is with digital eq (talking minimum phase here not linear phase) is they all sound the same... The thing that makes one digital eq different from another and which effects the end result are the different curves that they offer and how they are able to be tweaked by user. Also stuff like oversampling which is pretty standard.
  
 Digital eqs can get extremely complex like this one from UAD which is a clone of a $5000 hardware eq. The main thing that makes this product sound different to other digital eqs is that the frequency range can be sculpted in ways that an ordinary digital eq built into your computer can't be.
  
 http://www.uaudio.com/store/equalizers/manley-massive-passive.html
  
 At the end of the day though for tweaking headphones all you need is an eq with a high and low frequency shelf. Bumping up the bass a couple of dbs and bringing down the treble a couple of dbs can make a world of difference with bright sounding headphones such as my LCD-Xs.
  
I think you're right about the HD800s with that Harmon Curve. I'd definitely love to hear it.


----------



## analog'd

revogamer said:


> Agree with the above, only way to complement the HD800's is with a headphone of the same calibre (LCD-3 or such)


 

 ok, I'm a bit jealous. you have the he6 also. I loved their sonic presentation but I just couldn't get comfortable wearing them. me and my bony head!
 congrats on a killer lineup!!!


----------



## analog'd

screwdriver said:


> I did Bid farewell to my sennheiser Hd800 . maybe someday again ........


 

 oh no, and now you are suffering with your meager HE6's. poor guy!


----------



## RingingEars

screwdriver said:


> I did Bid farewell to my sennheiser Hd800 . maybe someday again ........


 
 Aw man. Say it ain't so screwdriver... You'll be back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I hope your next HP journey takes you to wondrous places.


----------



## icebear

A recent revelation ... *FIRST WATT*
  
 so far I was under the impression that the source is far more important than the amp, as I did like what I was listening to.
 I thought the resolution that I do get from the HD800 (directly plugged into a e20DAC) couldn't be possibly achieved with speakers.
 Just because of the room acoustics and the much shorter ear to speaker distance when using headphones.
  
 That was until last week, when I took delivery of a First Watt M2.
 I hooked it up and let it warm up for about 1hr and started casual listening. One of the discs spinning was "Friday Night in San Francisco", regular red book CD for that matter, it was like I was listening to this disc for the first time. The speed of the picking, clearly separated notes, not blurring into one strum and all that in a sense of spacious stage, like 25ft wide and at least 40ft behind the artists. After the 4th track I connected my old amp again and I was literally devastated. The sound stage collapsed totally, my better half asked me "*Where did the stage go ?!*" and I didn't ask her to pay specific attention. For me that comment describes the effect in a nutshell. So my former amp got pushed into retirement, no questions asked.
  
 This revelation for me at least, points out that there is something much more important to accurate reproduction than frequency response and ideal target curves. That is speed and detail retrieval. Only with enough detail in natural room reverb, you get a sense of the performance space. And of course the resolution will help to bring you closer to the performance itself.
  
 The pretty surprising thing is that the First Watt ("only" 25/50 wpc at 8/4 ohms) is delivering this feat at SPL's of normal conversation.
 Before that I had to crank it up a notch to get the speakers going - so I thought. Obviously the amp needed some more 'rpms' and given its 20+ years of age it's hardly a surprise that is sounds muffled compared to the new M2 and like you forgot to fully unlock the parking brake when hitting the road. So using "classic" amps from the 70's might have a nostalgic appeal to it, nothing more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 I am not sure yet, if I get even more resolution via the speakers now than over my HD800. One thing is crystal clear, no headphone will ever be able to recreate this holographic sound stage. I will be listening much more to my speakers now at lower volume. Hopefully I'm not abandoning my headphones but a GSX-MkII is in the making, so things will hopefully also be pushed for the headphone set up.
  
 Have I mentioned I love this hobby?


----------



## hekeli

For me Senny HD8 complements HD800 very well for those polar opposite fun times. It's cool they are so close in name too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Why bother getting another expensive headphone that's just poorer in every way, at best just a different flavour.. while still having a limp dick bass.. haha.. well seriously I think I'm satisfied with this combo "4eva".


----------



## Canadian411

analog'd said:


> ok, I'm a bit jealous. you have the he6 also. I loved their sonic presentation but I just couldn't get comfortable wearing them. me and my bony head!
> congrats on a killer lineup!!!


 
  
 I thought HD800 was an end game (for me) but HE6 is a really special headphone. I think it's heavy and not as comfortable as Senns HD series but something is really special.
 I switch from HD800 to HE6 and everytime I do that Hifiman sounds more like 3 dimensional, even from my cheap oppo ha-1 amp it sounds really good.
  
 But HD800 is also a keeper


----------



## screwdriver

canadian411 said:


> I thought HD800 was an end game (for me) but HE6 is a really special headphone. I think it's heavy and not as comfortable as Senns HD series but something is really special.
> I switch from HD800 to HE6 and everytime I do that Hifiman sounds more like 3 dimensional, even from my cheap oppo ha-1 amp it sounds really good.
> 
> But HD800 is also a keeper


. I really liked the senn hd800 and I can live with it but when the he6 came along - I like the sound much more. It's not as comfy but I believe its more detailed, the stage is not too wide like the send but its wide just right.the bass is much better


----------



## analog'd

yeah, the HE6 is fantastic. my pair went to a good friend of mine who will never part with them. it was very hard for me to let them go, but comfort is king (or at least discomfort is the devil).
  
 the LCD-3 has saved me from total misery after sending my he6's off. but I never had them at the same time so I can't discuss them in comparison. certainly from the same side of the universe though...


----------



## analog'd

boy are we lucky to have cans this great available. wasn't too long ago that a grado rs1 and a senn hd650 was as good as it got generally, with very few options. unless you had the uber bucks for sony r10 or could do an Orpheus.


----------



## koiloco

screwdriver said:


> . I really liked the senn hd800 and I can live with it but when the he6 came along - I like the sound much more. It's not as comfy but I believe *its more detailed*, the stage is not too wide like the send but its wide just right.the bass is much better


 
 Respectfully disagree about HE-6 being more detailed but regarding bass, for my taste, I prefer HE-6 too.


----------



## RingingEars

canadian411 said:


> I thought HD800 was an end game (for me) but HE6 is a really special headphone. I think it's heavy and not as comfortable as Senns HD series but something is really special.
> I switch from HD800 to HE6 and everytime I do that Hifiman sounds more like 3 dimensional, even from my cheap oppo ha-1 amp it sounds really good.
> 
> But HD800 is also a keeper


 
  
  


screwdriver said:


> . I really liked the senn hd800 and I can live with it but when the he6 came along - I like the sound much more. It's not as comfy but I believe its more detailed, the stage is not too wide like the send but its wide just right.the bass is much better


 
  
  


analog'd said:


> yeah, the HE6 is fantastic. my pair went to a good friend of mine who will never part with them. it was very hard for me to let them go, but comfort is king (or at least discomfort is the devil).
> 
> the LCD-3 has saved me from total misery after sending my he6's off. but I never had them at the same time so I can't discuss them in comparison. certainly from the same side of the universe though...


 
  
  


koiloco said:


> Respectfully disagree about HE-6 being more detailed but regarding bass, for my taste, I prefer HE-6 too.


 

I'm not listening, I'm not listening, I'm not listening, I'm not listening,
Ok. Maybe I need an LCD-2 to compliment my HD800, but then  I would need another amp and.............. Oh does it ever end


----------



## analog'd

ringingears said:


> canadian411 said:
> 
> 
> > I thought HD800 was an end game (for me) but HE6 is a really special headphone. I think it's heavy and not as comfortable as Senns HD series but something is really special.
> ...


 

 if you're like me and many others, the lcd2 isn't on the same level at all as the HD800, HE6 and LCD3. sorry. best to save until you can get something that will stand on it's own with your senns.


----------



## LargoCantabile

How will if at all a Geek Pulse help or destroy my HD800?
 I have tried asking the question on the Pulse Forum but the respondents just chuck more technical facts and do not answer my question is how in PRACTICAL TERMS that means applied in REAL LIFE not the mythic audiophile world in their heads.
  
 I know what a milliwatt is etc and that amplifiers must match speakers or you destroy the speakers or underdrive them but HOW for the love of God does this affect HD800 versus say Noble N6  iems etc. ?


----------



## longbowbbs

Geek Pulse Review is up....HD800's were my primary cans
  
 http://headphone.guru/geek-pulse/


----------



## zilch0md

analog'd said:


> if you're like me and many others, the lcd2 isn't on the same level at all as the HD800, HE6 and LCD3. sorry. best to save until you can get something that will stand on it's own with your senns.


 
  
 As an LCD-2 rev.1 owner, I think it's precisely because the LCD-2 isn't in the same league as the HD800 that it makes a great compliment to the HD800 - a polar opposite experience, if you will - with lots of bass, shelved highs, less resolution, more forgiving, etc.  Build playlists for both headphones and you're good to go!   The LCD-3 is more like a cross between the LCD-2 and an HD800.  
  
 Mike


----------



## blackwolf1006

zilch0md said:


> As an LCD-2 rev.1 owner, I think it's precisely because the LCD-2 isn't in the same league as the HD800 that it makes a great compliment to the HD800 - a polar opposite experience, if you will - with lots of bass, shelved highs, less resolution, more forgiving, etc.  Build playlists for both headphones and you're good to go!   The LCD-3 is more like a cross between the LCD-2 and an HD800.
> 
> Mike


 
  
  
 interesting analogy..


----------



## ubs28

revogamer said:


> Agree with the above, only way to complement the HD800's is with a headphone of the same calibre (LCD-3 or such)


 

 My Shure SE846 compliments the HD800 pretty well. Great bass, speed, details and easy on treble. The soundstage is pretty good on it also. No need to spend that much money in my opinion for a complimentary headphone.


----------



## Revogamer

ubs28 said:


> My Shure SE846 compliments the HD800 pretty well. Great bass, speed, details and easy on treble. The soundstage is pretty good on it also. No need to spend that much money in my opinion for a complimentary headphone.


 
 SE846's aren't exactly cheap though! 

 A good alternative to have portable too..


----------



## Taowolf51

priidik said:


> That's swell, but there are other technicalities, more important than the target curve.  DSP-d HD202 can not sound the same as HD800, won't you agree?
> 
> I'm newb to tech behind digital eq-s, but the best i have heard is Apple AU parametric in Logic, even from among many proffessional offers. Digital lin phase eq tries to rebuild phase, right? In any case it is lossy.
> 
> I wonder what the HD800 would sound like if it was tuned according to Harman reference. Many would ditch their planars for sure.



 


Definitely, it's why I actually don't pay a ton of attention to frequency response when choosing new headphones and instead focus on the rest of the technicalities. If I can find a headphone that fits my tastes perfectly in every way except the frequency response (the HD 800 was exactly this for me), I can simply transparently change the frequency response and get very close to the perfect ideal headphone for my tastes. It's a lot easier than making compromises getting a headphone that isn't as ideal when it comes to technicalities but better fits my ideal frequency response curve when un-EQ'd.

I actually used the Sean Olive curve as a reference when building my personal EQ. I decided not to match it (I didn't drop any part of the treble, just smoothed the spike, and I didn't up the bass as much as I would have needed to to match the Olive curve), but my headphones now are certainly closer to it than they were before. The bass reinforcement and treble smoothing makes these headphones sound a little thicker (removing the "anemic" and "thin" sound some mention) but are still just as fast. They've gotten more textured as well, since they still have the speed and short decay of the HD800 but have some more weight to throw around (from the somewhat elevated bass response). I've never heard a headphone that has so much texture in so much of its frequency range.
Experemental electronic music like Yosi Horikawa and The Flashbulb sound absolutely amazing on these headphones. The level of detail and texture can't be beat.

I may try matching the Olive curve more closely at some point, just to see how it sounds.


----------



## RingingEars

analog'd said:


> if you're like me and many others, the lcd2 isn't on the same level at all as the HD800, HE6 and LCD3. sorry. best to save until you can get something that will stand on it's own with your senns.


 
 $$ wise or sound wise?
 At $1000 for the LCD-2 and $2000 for the LCD-3 that would put the HD800 right in the middle so which way do you go? Up or down?
 I would think the LCD-2 would compliment the HD800 perfectly. It's a polar opposite of the HD800... Sound wise.


----------



## analog'd

ringingears said:


> analog'd said:
> 
> 
> > if you're like me and many others, the lcd2 isn't on the same level at all as the HD800, HE6 and LCD3. sorry. best to save until you can get something that will stand on it's own with your senns.
> ...


 

 I get your thinking. it is EXACTLY what I thought. So I got a pair of LCD2 (rev2). loved the sound sig which is polar opp as you said. very complimentary. BUT for me (and many others who own hd800 and lcd3) the refinement in sound is of enough of a lesser quality (in EVERY way really), that they are not on the same level as an HD800. Unfortunately for us, Audeze priced the ones with that sound sig but with the much greater refinement at $2,000.

 these are 2 different companies so one can't look at their price points as a way to relate one against the other. it sucketh that audeze knew they could get away with the jump to $2k, but they did. not many people find the lcd2 to be on the same level at all as the HD800. more power to ya if you can get away with using them as your complimentary phone.


----------



## analog'd

blackwolf1006 said:


> zilch0md said:
> 
> 
> > As an LCD-2 rev.1 owner, I think it's precisely because the LCD-2 isn't in the same league as the HD800 that it makes a great compliment to the HD800 - a polar opposite experience, if you will - with lots of bass, shelved highs, less resolution, more forgiving, etc.  Build playlists for both headphones and you're good to go!   The LCD-3 is more like a cross between the LCD-2 and an HD800.
> ...


 

 you're lucky they work for you. I miss too much detail, refinement at every frequency, resolution, etc to find them acceptable. the  lcd3 are just as forgiving as the lcd2 and they have the same polar opp to the hd800 sound sig found in the lcd2, they are simply better headphones from the same stable. i wonder if you'll get other people who have had all 3 to agree that the lcd3 is more like a cross between the hd800 and the lcd2, though it's an interesting thought.  hey, that's why God made chocolate AND vanilla. we all hear things differently. everything is good, if it works for you. I WISH the lcd2 had worked for me after having the HD800. And maybe I'm a fool on the hill and everybody but me actually hears em like you hear em.


----------



## Mortalcoil

ringingears said:


> $$ wise or sound wise?
> At $1000 for the LCD-2 and $2000 for the LCD-3 that would put the HD800 right in the middle so which way do you go? Up or down?
> I would think the LCD-2 would compliment the HD800 perfectly. It's a polar opposite of the HD800... Sound wise.


 

  I say take a look at the TH-900.  Guaranteed to shake things up a bit.


----------



## RUMAY408

maclenltd said:


> Anyone have any inside tips for listening to vinyl (all analog) with their HD800s? I can obviously take an output and amp it up with a newer headphone amp but then it is unnecessarily converted to a digital stream. Has anyone had success using the HD800 with vintage headphone amps or vintage stereos? Or, are the HD800s not well suited for vinyl since they are so revealing?
> EDIT: sorry, I was confused because my amp has a DAC built-in. I now realize that I can use any headphone amp without a DAC to achieve an analog chain.


 

 I'm currently using this combo for my TT with the HD800:  
  
 Ortofon Super OM40 (Black cart)>Technics 1200 MK2>Fisher 100T preamp (1960 with telefunken tubes)>Meier classic HP amp>HD800
  
 I agree with Matt the vintage amp thread is useful, and the Turntable setup thread is helpful as well
  
 Clean vinyl is a must, these HP's will pick up every click and pop, personally I love vinyl and prefer to swap out with digital sources about 1/2 the time


----------



## Canadian411

analog'd said:


> if you're like me and many others, the lcd2 isn't on the same level at all as the HD800, HE6 and LCD3. sorry. best to save until you can get something that will stand on it's own with your senns.




That is pretty much I felt in lcd2. Not in the same league as hd800, he6, th900.

For me lcd2 was inferior or similar to my old d7000.

I really hope audeze redesign their headphones to fix the clamping force and reduce weights.

Until then ......


----------



## Canadian411

mortalcoil said:


> I say take a look at the TH-900.  Guaranteed to shake things up a bit.




 yape. Do you see smile on my face.


----------



## rgs9200m

analog'd said:


> boy are we lucky to have cans this great available. wasn't too long ago that a grado rs1 and a senn hd650 was as good as it got generally, with very few options. unless you had the uber bucks for sony r10 or could do an Orpheus.


 
 So true. Often forgotten these days.


----------



## Priidik

taowolf51 said:


> I can simply transparently change the frequency response


 
 Still disagree.
  


taowolf51 said:


> I actually used the Sean Olive curve as a reference when building my personal EQ. I decided not to match it (I didn't drop any part of the treble, just smoothed the spike, and I didn't up the bass as much as I would have needed to to match the Olive curve), but my headphones now are certainly closer to it than they were before. The bass reinforcement and treble smoothing makes these headphones sound a little thicker (removing the "anemic" and "thin" sound some mention) but are still just as fast. They've gotten more textured as well, since they still have the speed and short decay of the HD800 but have some more weight to throw around (from the somewhat elevated bass response). I've never heard a headphone that has so much texture in so much of its frequency range.
> Experemental electronic music like Yosi Horikawa and The Flashbulb sound absolutely amazing on these headphones. The level of detail and texture can't be beat.
> 
> I may try matching the Olive curve more closely at some point, just to see how it sounds.


 
 Thin and anemic is probably words that more describe the chain before the HD800. I had similar chain a while back, and i actually used TB Isone and some eq too.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 But i knew it didn't do justice to HD800. Since i upgraded my amp and dac i feel any dsp just takes away something. 
 The texture thing is truly amazing. They rival or surpass great speakers in this.


----------



## rgs9200m

Yeah, whenever I try EQ in Jriver (usually to reduce highs a bit) it makes the bass slower and less transparent. This happens with my HE560 too.


----------



## ubs28

How to tell if the HD800 is underpowered?


----------



## ubs28

taowolf51 said:


> priidik said:
> 
> 
> > That's swell, but there are other technicalities, more important than the target curve.  DSP-d HD202 can not sound the same as HD800, won't you agree?
> ...


 
  
 This only work in theory, this won't work in practise unless you got unlimited processing power using a digital EQ. Even the best zero phase EQ / filters still approximates and introduce unwanted effects in the signal.


----------



## 50Hz

ubs28 said:


> This only work in theory, this won't work in practise unless you got unlimited processing power using a digital EQ. Even the best zero phase EQ / filters still approximates and introduce unwanted effects in the signal.




You obviously have no idea what you're talking about...

It's just eq buddy


----------



## ubs28

edit: Nevermind, I'm not going to bother to respond.


----------



## Taowolf51

priidik said:


> Still disagree.
> 
> Thin and anemic is probably words that more describe the chain before the HD800. I had similar chain a while back, and i actually used TB Isone and some eq too.
> 
> ...



 

My amp is an M-Stage, which is considered to be a warmer and thicker amp. But regardless, anemic is more about preference and taste than anything else. Anemic to one person can be perfect for another. If you want a more "full" sound, you can either get an amp that reinforces bass, or you can do it with an EQ. Both work fine. I chose the latter because of cost concerns and because I like to get into the nitty gritty and tweak stuff. 

EQ is very much about implementation. I used to hate EQ's just as you do, until I found the one I use now, and now I wouldn't be caught without one.


----------



## James-uk

So I recently discovered that the iPad can be connected to external dacs via a camera kit connection. I'm currently using an ipad2>spotify extreme setting>camera adaptor>usb>Benchmark dac1usb>HD800. This set up provides audible transparency and a clean/ user friendly interface with access to almost all the music I would ever need. I even sold my iMac as a result because it's main purpose in the end was a music server! Ive reached the point where unless a serious HD800 competitor comes along I need to find a new interest to spend my disposable income on. Nothing in this hobby is grabbing my attention anymore . The HD800 are so far ahead of the competition!!!!!!


----------



## spurxiii

james-uk said:


> So I recently discovered that the iPad can be connected to external dacs via a camera kit connection. I'm currently using an ipad2>spotify extreme setting>camera adaptor>usb>Benchmark dac1usb>HD800. This set up provides audible transparency and a clean/ user friendly interface with access to almost all the music I would ever need. I even sold my iMac as a result because it's main purpose in the end was a music server! Ive reached the point where unless a serious HD800 competitor comes along I need to find a new interest to spend my disposable income on. Nothing in this hobby is grabbing my attention anymore . The HD800 are so far ahead of the competition!!!!!!




+1 it's cured by upgraditis for cans but introduced me to upgrading the rest. Oh god it never stops


----------



## MickeyVee

+1 - Sure does - thought that I was done when I got the MHA100 last week but found myself surfing the Martin Logan site to add speakers to my office system now. Hmmm - try another cable? Oh please, let it stop!
 Quote:


spurxiii said:


> +1 it's cured by upgraditis for cans but introduced me to upgrading the rest. Oh god it never stops


----------



## RUMAY408

ubs28 said:


> How to tell if the HD800 is underpowered?


 

 I would strongly recommend going to a Head-Fi meet and comparing different amps with the HD800.
  
 This HP is deceptive, it scales up with quality amps but it still sounds pretty good with with my $60 FiiO E11.
  
 On the other end of the scale my AKG K240 Sextett (600 ohms) will not work at all with lower end amps.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

ubs28 said:


> How to tell if the HD800 is underpowered?


 

 Mine rarely runs over the equivalent of 0.00003 horsepower. Maybe mine IS underpowered?


----------



## RingingEars

spurxiii said:


> +1 it's cured by upgraditis for cans but introduced me to upgrading the rest. Oh god it never stops


 
 Nope. It never does.
 I sent the parasound zdac back. Bought a Teac UD-501 and I'm sure if I don't like it I will send back for a higher end unit... so on and so forth 
 Just got the CSP3(love it) and I'm already curious about a SS amp for the HD800.
  
 One things for sure. I'm not selling my HD800


----------



## longbowbbs

ringingears said:


> Just got the CSP3(love it)


 
 I knew you would!


----------



## screwdriver

ringingears said:


> Nope. It never does.
> I sent the parasound zdac back. Bought a Teac UD-501 and I'm sure if I don't like it I will send back for a higher end unit... so on and so forth
> Just got the CSP3(love it) and I'm already curious about a SS amp for the HD800.
> 
> One things for sure. I'm not selling my HD800


 

 im gonna keep this quote and ill bring it up when u sell the HD800 ....


----------



## RingingEars

screwdriver said:


> im gonna keep this quote and ill bring it up when u sell the HD800 ....


 
 lol. I know huh. This hobby is a funny thing


----------



## RingingEars

longbowbbs said:


> I knew you would!


 
 It's a nice fit with HD800. Super smooth.
 Fit and finish on the CSP3 is second to non. It's beautiful amp in looks and sound. I wont be selling this either. I may get a SS amp just to have a change of pace, but the CSP3 is here to stay.


----------



## longbowbbs

ringingears said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I knew you would!
> ...


 
 Awesome pairing with the HD800!


----------



## dclaz

I'm looking at buying a set of high end headphones and the HD800 is at the top of my list. I've started a thread here if you guys have any other suggestions. I figure though I might get some good feedback here regarding some specifics for the HD800.
  
 1. How does the HD800 feel physically? Quality construction and materials?
 2. Is there decently cheap balanced cables available for it?
 3. How comfortable are they for prolonged sessions? Does the design allow you to lie down with them with your head on a pillow?
  
 Cheers


----------



## 62ohm

dclaz said:


> I'm looking at buying a set of high end headphones and the HD800 is at the top of my list. I've started a thread here if you guys have any other suggestions. I figure though I might get some good feedback here regarding some specifics for the HD800.
> 
> 1. How does the HD800 feel physically? Quality construction and materials?
> 2. Is there decently cheap balanced cables available for it?
> ...


 
  
 For me personally,
  
 1. It barely clamps on your head, making it very comfortable. The earcups are enormous so your ears won't really touch the earcups. But even though the parts seem to be of high quality, somehow to me it feels fragile, thus making me scared to take them anywhere and forces me to always treat it like a baby.
 2. No idea...
 3. Very comfortable, more comfortable than the K812. Plus I at times also listen to them while laying down on a pillow. Granted, I can't really face anywhere but upwards, but it is possible nonetheless.


----------



## dclaz

62ohm said:


> For me personally,
> 
> 1. It barely clamps on your head, making it very comfortable. The earcups are enormous so your ears won't really touch the earcups. But even though the parts seem to be of high quality, somehow to me it feels fragile, thus making me scared to take them anywhere and forces me to always treat it like a baby.
> 2. No idea...
> 3. Very comfortable, more comfortable than the K812. Plus I at times also listen to them while laying down on a pillow. Granted, I can't really face anywhere but upwards, but it is possible nonetheless.


 
 1. I'd probably feel the same way about a set so expensive.
 2. fair
 3. Good to hear 
  
 Cheers


----------



## akhyar

dclaz said:


> I'm looking at buying a set of high end headphones and the HD800 is at the top of my list. I've started a thread here if you guys have any other suggestions. I figure though I might get some good feedback here regarding some specifics for the HD800.
> 
> 1. How does the HD800 feel physically? Quality construction and materials?
> 2. Is there decently cheap balanced cables available for it?
> ...


 
  
 My take on your queries:
 1. It feels fairly made, but some parts can be improved, eg. the adjustable headband can become loose after few years. Happened to my 1st set but easily fixed by Sennheiser. The paint works can also be improved.
 2. You can try eBay and get those aftermarket balanced cables made from Mogami or Canare cable. Can be had for <$100
 3. Very2 comfortable. But my other can is LCD-X which I can wear for 2-3 hours non-stop.


----------



## RingingEars

62ohm said:


> For me personally,
> 
> 1. It barely clamps on your head, making it very comfortable. The earcups are enormous so your ears won't really touch the earcups. But even though the parts seem to be of high quality, somehow to me it feels fragile, thus making me scared to take them anywhere and forces me to always treat it like a baby.
> 2. No idea...
> 3. Very comfortable, more comfortable than the K812. Plus I at times also listen to them while laying down on a pillow. Granted, I can't really face anywhere but upwards, but it is possible nonetheless.


 
 +1
 For #2 dclaz if you do get an aftermarket cable I would recommend the Draug2. As far as sound you would have to be the judge of that, but it is a beautiful cable.


----------



## dclaz

akhyar said:


> My take on your queries:
> 1. It feels fairly made, but some parts can be improved, eg. the adjustable headband can become loose after few years. Happened to my 1st set but easily fixed by Sennheiser. The paint works can also be improved.
> 2. You can try eBay and get those aftermarket balanced cables made from Mogami or Canare cable. Can be had for <$100
> 3. Very2 comfortable. But my other can is LCD-X which I can wear for 2-3 hours non-stop.


 
  
  


ringingears said:


> +1
> For #2 dclaz if you do get an aftermarket cable I would recommend the Draug2. As far as sound you would have to be the judge of that, but it is a beautiful cable.


 
  
 Cheers. Those cables are indeed pretty beautiful, might be slightly more than I want to pay for cables after customization though I fear.


----------



## LugBug1

james-uk said:


> So I recently discovered that the iPad can be connected to external dacs via a camera kit connection. I'm currently using an ipad2>spotify extreme setting>camera adaptor>usb>Benchmark dac1usb>HD800. This set up provides audible transparency and a clean/ user friendly interface with access to almost all the music I would ever need. I even sold my iMac as a result because it's main purpose in the end was a music server! Ive reached the point where unless a serious HD800 competitor comes along I need to find a new interest to spend my disposable income on. Nothing in this hobby is grabbing my attention anymore . The HD800 are so far ahead of the competition!!!!!!


 
 Thats great to hear bud. It's nice when you can finally put all your focus on the music! 
  
 I'm a spotify guy a well, the SQ on premium is very good. I still buy cd's or download new releases that are important to me but I did spend a couple of months using nothing but Spotify and I could defo live with only it.  
  
 (tip) whenever spotify asks you if you want the latest version, once you've downloaded it always check your preferences again to make sure you're set to high quality streaming because it will revert back to 'factory settings'


----------



## spurxiii

How good are these with movie sound tracks. Listening to the Braveheart and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon sound track I got a while back and I've never heard it sounding better. I've got goosebumps


----------



## dclaz

How legitimate are the rumours of a new Sennheiser flagship? (like 20 pages or so back) I'd hate to pick up the HD800 and see it's replacement or superior model launched shortly after


----------



## 62ohm

dclaz said:


> How legitimate are the rumours of a new Sennheiser flagship? (like 20 pages or so back) I'd hate to pick up the HD800 and see it's replacement or superior model launched shortly after


 
  
 IMO even if they do release a new flagship, it is likely that Sennheiser would keep the current price of the HD800 and price their new flagship over the $2k mark.


----------



## llcook51

freedom01 said:


> 5 years late to this party.
> But better late than never.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Just joined the party this week myself. Alpha Dogs and HiFiman HE400i are both "good" but the HD800...oh my!


----------



## analog'd

congrats llcook51!!!
  
 definitely an occasion worth noting...


----------



## llcook51

longbowbbs said:


> Geek Pulse Review is up....HD800's were my primary cans
> 
> http://headphone.guru/geek-pulse/


 
 Thanks for the great review. It told me exactly what I needed to know.


----------



## longbowbbs

llcook51 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Geek Pulse Review is up....HD800's were my primary cans
> ...


 
 Your welcome. It was fun to do!


----------



## MickeyVee

Congrats and welcome to the party!  You'll probably find them very different than your other cans.  What are you driving them with?
  
 Quote:


llcook51 said:


> Just joined the party this week myself. Alpha Dogs and HiFiman HE400i are both "good" but the HD800...oh my!


----------



## whirlwind

I am currently watching this bluray thru my pc > ps audionuwave > HD800 > mad ear +hd......holy crap.....wonderful stuff with these cans


----------



## llcook51

mickeyvee said:


>


 
 Currently I have the Lyr 2 with Bugle Boys and a CEntrance DACmini. Just ordered the Geek Plus. 
 Now that I have the flagship Hp, I have to concentrate on DAC and amp. Oh my soon to be poorer wallet.


----------



## llcook51

whirlwind said:


> I am currently watching this bluray thru my pc > ps audionuwave > HD800 > mad ear +hd......holy crap.....wonderful stuff with these cans




 Outrageously good. If you sit still when he plays you must be deaf or dead.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

High-end headphones are only a fraction of their true cost. Rebuilding my music collection with high-res versions, remasters, etc. LOL


----------



## llcook51

birdmanofct said:


> High-end headphones are only a fraction of their true cost. Rebuilding my music collection with high-res versions, remasters, etc. LOL


 
 So very true. Great HPs point out the flaws in what formerly sounded just fine. Paired with a great source, however, and a whole new world appears.


----------



## RUMAY408

birdmanofct said:


> High-end headphones are only a fraction of their true cost. Rebuilding my music collection with high-res versions, remasters, etc. LOL


 

 256+ MP3's and CD's well mastered still sound good, but SACD, clean vinyl, DVD-A, and high-res take it up a notch.
  
 I'm in that phase right now, just bought a vinyl Tom Petty "Full Moon Fever" vinyl album, a high end pressed version, and it just keeps adding up.


----------



## RingingEars

birdmanofct said:


> High-end headphones are only a fraction of their true cost. Rebuilding my music collection with high-res versions, remasters, etc. LOL


 
  
  


rumay408 said:


> 256+ MP3's and CD's well mastered still sound good, but SACD, clean vinyl, DVD-A, and high-res take it up a notch.
> 
> I'm in that phase right now, just bought a vinyl Tom Petty "Full Moon Fever" vinyl album, a high end pressed version, and it just keeps adding up.


 
 True. So true.
 I have a few hi-res downloads now, but I just bought a ud-501 to see what all DSD talk is about. I assume that's going to add up pretty quickly...


----------



## RUMAY408

ringingears said:


> True. So true.
> I have a few hi-res downloads now, but I just bought a ud-501 to see what all DSD talk is about. I assume that's going to add up pretty quickly...


 

 The rare SACD and DVD-A are not only hard to find, but expensive, the price you pay as an audiophile


----------



## RingingEars

rumay408 said:


> The rare SACD and DVD-A are not only hard to find, but expensive, the price you pay as an audiophile


 
 I have a few SACDs and a Yamaha DVD s-1800. Not sure why that never took off? I love them


----------



## magiccabbage

rumay408 said:


> 256+ MP3's and CD's well mastered still sound good, but SACD, clean vinyl, DVD-A, and high-res take it up a notch.
> 
> I'm in that phase right now, just bought a vinyl Tom Petty "Full Moon Fever" vinyl album, a high end pressed version, and it just keeps adding up.


 
 Never a truer word spoken . 
  
  recently got the following on HD stereo ¬
  
 Fleetwood Mac - rumours + tusk
 Led Zepp - 1,2,3,4
 Michael Jacson - Thriller, off the wall and bad
 Queen - The entire studio collection
 Stevie wonder - hotter than july and song in the key
Talking heads - remain in light
Pink Floyd - wish you were here, dark side
  
  
Now the thing is on the albums - wish you were here and dark side + remain in light - I cannot hear much difference from the 16bit flac versions if any. 
  
 [size=x-small]BUT - On albums like Rumours, Bad and the whole Queen collection the [/size]differences[size=x-small] are massive. Really obvious differences here. Anyone with an ear could hear them even on budget Dac's like the one i have[/size]


----------



## rgs9200m

I do like the Beatles on USB better than the CDs from the 2009 box set that I ripped myself.


----------



## MANGBOY

ringingears said:


> True. So true.
> I have a few hi-res downloads now, but I just bought a ud-501 to see what all DSD talk is about. I assume that's going to add up pretty quickly...


 
  
 How's the performance of UD501 with jriver and HD800 also interested with this DAC.


----------



## MickeyVee

Nice list, once I get over the shock of my latest purchase, its back to buying music on GDTracks and I'll be getting everything on your list.
 Already have Rumours & DSOM.  Enjoy!
  
 Quote:


magiccabbage said:


> Fleetwood Mac - rumours + tusk Led Zepp - 1,2,3,4
> Michael Jacson - Thriller, off the wall and bad
> Queen - The entire studio collection
> Stevie wonder - hotter than july and song in the key
> ...


----------



## Arttt

I can't find right amp for hd800...


----------



## Dopaminer

mangboy said:


> How's the performance of UD501 with jriver and HD800 also interested with this DAC.


 
  
 I have tried the three recent TEAC dacs and I recommend the newer UD-301 over the 501  . . . .


----------



## magiccabbage

mickeyvee said:


>


 
 Michael Jackson "BAD" is scary good - the HD version


----------



## Frank I

magiccabbage said:


> Michael Jackson "BAD" is scary good - the HD version


 
 Check out Speed Demon- our very own Christopher Currell(Event Horizon Column-Guru ) playing with Michael and touring  for 4 years is really sounding awesome. Christophe rand I wer elsitneing to that track on the Blue Hawaii and Stax 009 in Denver.


----------



## magiccabbage

frank i said:


> Check out Speed Demon- our very own Christopher Currell(Event Horizon Column-Guru ) playing with Michael and touring  for 4 years is really sounding awesome. Christophe rand I wer elsitneing to that track on the Blue Hawaii and Stax 009 in Denver.


 
 Yea great track - the motor cycle sound at the start is amazing. What did Christopher play?
  
 Oh I see now - guitar. Am a guitar player myself. #Just a hobby though -not to that level, that's crazy


----------



## Frank I

magiccabbage said:


> Yea great track - the motor cycle sound at the start is amazing. What did Christopher play?
> 
> Oh I see now - guitar. Am a guitar player myself. #Just a hobby though -not to that level, that's crazy


 
 He also did all the synclavier work on that album and lot of the compositions he co wrote.


----------



## 62ohm

arttt said:


> I can't find right amp for hd800...


 
  
 Why not? What's your budget?


----------



## zerodeefex

mangboy said:


> ringingears said:
> 
> 
> > True. So true.
> ...




Having owned one, I can't recommend it. Even the bifrost uber and geek out 450 are better DACs.


----------



## RingingEars

mangboy said:


> How's the performance of UD501 with jriver and HD800 also interested with this DAC.


 
 Don't know. It hasn't come in yet. It will be here Wed.
 I'll give it a fair shake, but from what I've reading on here about it it will most likely be going back. I'm looking at the PS Audio Nuwave as well...


----------



## MANGBOY

zerodeefex said:


> Having owned one, I can't recommend it. Even the bifrost uber and geek out 450 are better DACs.


 
  


ringingears said:


> Don't know. It hasn't come in yet. It will be here Wed.
> I'll give it a fair shake, but from what I've reading on here about it it will most likely be going back. I'm looking at the PS Audio Nuwave as well...


 
  
  
 Thanks! Iam using musical fidelity M1dac curious though with more positive review of UD 501


----------



## Arttt

1500 eu. I tryed meridian prime, naim v1, beyerdynamic A1, sennheiser hdvd800, hegel hd12. Tryed tube amp Audio Valve rkv mark 2. Each time something was missing... 
Naim v1 was fun, but amp section was weack. Beyerdynamic A1 was too warm, each amp had something that made hd800 sound " half way there" 

I am considering Auralic Taurus but don't know when I get the time to audition it. I heard it has " analog sound" that I am after and has plenty of power to drive any headphones with ease.

Anyone heard it with hd800? 
I am also wondering about balancing cable for hd800, how does that effect hd800 ?


----------



## PleasantSounds

arttt said:


> I am considering Auralic Taurus but don't know when I get the time to audition it. I heard it has " analog sound" that I am after and has plenty of power to drive any headphones with ease.
> 
> Anyone heard it with hd800?
> I am also wondering about balancing cable for hd800, how does that effect hd800 ?


 
  
 Taurus mk2 is very good, but at least for me the V281 is even better, especially with the HD800. Sounds more refined and more natural.
  
 If you consider either of these amps, balanced is the way to go.


----------



## MattTCG

I looking for some opinions on the hd800 paired with Rag. Anyone?


----------



## Viper2005

pleasantsounds said:


> Taurus mk2 is very good, but at least for me the V281 is even better, especially with the HD800. Sounds more refined and more natural.




+1 on the V281. I am using this combo and the sound is very smooth and natural.


----------



## 62ohm

Quote:


pleasantsounds said:


> Taurus mk2 is very good, but at least for me the V281 is even better, especially with the HD800. Sounds more refined and more natural.



  
  
 Quote:


viper2005 said:


> +1 on the V281. I am using this combo and the sound is very smooth and natural.


 
  
 How do you guys think the Taurus Mk.2 compares to the V281 for the HD800?


----------



## Prothean

Hello friends, its good to finally be here, wasn't quite sure whether to make my own thread so I'll just post it here for now and you guys can let me know ;]
  
 So I've wanted a high end audio setup for the longest times but never had that kind of disposable income but with my graduate job next year I decided to finally go for it. Purchased the HD800 and the Woo WA7 for $1700 off ebay (used of course, was this a good deal?). I should also note I've been using fairly sub-par $50 cans thus far and also I may or may not be partially death.
  
 Yeah...I used to listen to music full blast and may have impaired my hearing, I do find myself saying "what" probably more often than is normal. Also did a hearing test online http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_hearingtestaudiogram.php like this one and I border on mild hearing loss and normal hearing so yeah, that sucks.
  
 I wanted to ask the veterans of head-fi two things, first what do I do to get the most out of my setup? It hasn't come yet so I've been trying to find my cd's again so I'll have good/lossless audio source. Other than that not sure what else to do but I'm sure there's something I've not thought of.
  
 Secondly, how much do you think this would effect my listening experience? My biggest concern is that when my gear finally arrives, I'll set it up and it'll only sound marginally better than what I've used so far because my hearing is kind of messed up. Not sure if anyone here can help me with that but I'll appreciate whatever input I get.
  
 Thanks for your time guys, can't wait to dive into the audiophile world 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ray,


----------



## magiccabbage

prothean said:


> Hello friends, its good to finally be here, wasn't quite sure whether to make my own thread so I'll just post it here for now and you guys can let me know ;]
> 
> So I've wanted a high end audio setup for the longest times but never had that kind of disposable income but with my graduate job next year I decided to finally go for it. Purchased the HD800 and the Woo WA7 for $1700 off ebay (used of course, was this a good deal?). I should also note I've been using fairly sub-par $50 cans thus far and also I may or may not be partially death.
> 
> ...


 
 Well first off, there will be a huge difference in quality even with the hearing loss. My brother has only 50% hearing in one ear and he is amazed by my HD800 rig.


----------



## RingingEars

prothean said:


> Hello friends, its good to finally be here, wasn't quite sure whether to make my own thread so I'll just post it here for now and you guys can let me know ;]
> 
> So I've wanted a high end audio setup for the longest times but never had that kind of disposable income but with my graduate job next year I decided to finally go for it. Purchased the HD800 and the Woo WA7 for $1700 off ebay (used of course, was this a good deal?). I should also note I've been using fairly sub-par $50 cans thus far and also I may or may not be partially death.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome to HF Ray 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





arttt said:


> 1500 eu. I tryed meridian prime, naim v1, beyerdynamic A1, sennheiser hdvd800, hegel hd12. Tryed tube amp Audio Valve rkv mark 2. Each time something was missing...
> Naim v1 was fun, but amp section was weack. Beyerdynamic A1 was too warm, each amp had something that made hd800 sound " half way there"
> 
> I am considering Auralic Taurus but don't know when I get the time to audition it. I heard it has " analog sound" that I am after and has plenty of power to drive any headphones with ease.
> ...


 
 I have a feeling I may be going down the same road with dacs. I've been looking at a tone of them. Delta-sigma and R2R. 
 Like I said I will give the UD-501 a fair shake despite the feelings here. It seems to get good reviews on other sites, but between other sites and here the feelings are definitely mixed.
 Next I'm going to try a PSA Nuwave. If that doesn't work out I'm going to try the MHDT Stockholm2...


----------



## Chodi

I have the Taurus and the HD800. I think it is a perfect combination but I must caution that you will have two components that are extremely transparent of the source. The dac will become more important with that combination. That does not mean that you will have to spend upwards of $3k to get great sound but as you look at more reasonably priced dacs you should audition your choices to make sure you know what you are getting. You could pair that system with the Vega and be done with it if your budget allows.There are good choices for far less but your personal listening preferences will make it necessary for you to hear those options before deciding.


----------



## mikemercer

I'm finally checking out a Woo WA7 Fireflies - and I'm very surprised at the wonderful synergy w/ my HD800s! Especially when using Double Helix Cables Molecule Elite by @scootermafia
  
 I don't remember alot of commentary on the WA7 + HD800s. I know there was/is a ton of talk about the synergy w/ Audeze cans - and I can testify to that too.
 But I'm loving the WA7 and HD800s combo!

 Next to my Cavalli Audio LAu - the WA7 might actually be my favorite amplifier accompaniment to my HD800s! Sometimes I find them too linear, for lack of a better way of expressing it - like a killer Wilson loudspeaker. I think many Wilsons sound like terrific Hi-fi - but not necessarily like music, with soul (except for his new Sashas).
 That's how I feel, sometimes, about my 800s.
  
 But I'm in 800 bliss right now!!


----------



## OJNeg

matttcg said:


> I looking for some opinions on the hd800 paired with Rag. Anyone?


 

 A very good combo, assuming your D/A isn't outputting any annoying digititus gremlins.


----------



## MickeyVee

Hi Mike.. I had the HD800/WA7 combo for a while and will I enjoyed it for the first couple of weeks, after two months, I found it sounding thin and uninvolving even with the upgraded EH tubes.  But that's me. Once it's broken in and you get used to the sound, try different DACs if you have them available.
 OTOH, you may just end up liking the sound.  Either way, Enjoy! It's a beautiful setup.
 Quote:


mikemercer said:


> I'm finally checking out a Woo WA7 Fireflies - and I'm very surprised at the wonderful synergy w/ my HD800s! Especially when using Double Helix Cables Molecule Elite by @scootermafia
> 
> I don't remember alot of commentary on the WA7 + HD800s. I know there was/is a ton of talk about the synergy w/ Audeze cans - and I can testify to that too.
> But I'm loving the WA7 and HD800s combo!


----------



## highfilter

matttcg said:


> I looking for some opinions on the hd800 paired with Rag. Anyone?


 


 Using the HD800's balanced into the Rag and NAD M51. It's fantastic.
  
 Having the Rag in the mix: Crystal clear treble presentation along with very good mid-bass and bass presence. High frequencies are extended and sound very natural, smooth but not tamed down. No EQ or mods on my HD800's either, and no temptation to do any either. The increased mid-bass and low bass presence gives a more balanced sound, having used the leaner sounding Asgard 2 previously. I get sucked into the music everytime and I'm not stranded to find faults. Very impressed with the Rag. Dead silent too.
  
 I have only used the HD800's with the Asgard 2 and Marantz SR-7002 previously, so not sure how it compares to other amps.


----------



## Priidik

arttt said:


> I can't find right amp for hd800...


 
 Have you considered that it could be dac?


----------



## Arttt

I got hegel hd20 , it's one of the best dacs out there, no matter price.
True high end, natural, neutral, with analog sound signature, doesn't sound " digital" and at the same time it's all there - details, presicion, control, great dynamics. Hd20 was compared to dacs like Weiss and m2tech vough, among other here in Scandinavia and its showed hd20 is in the same class.

I understand HEGEL is not known outside Scandinavia. Well to describe its sound signature, HEGEL is mix between Naim and Audio Research.

Took me a while to find dac i want to listen more and more, day after day... No matter how long listening sessions are...


----------



## RingingEars

highfilter said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Nice looking combo


----------



## MickeyVee

Nice setup @highfilter !! Being in Canada I had to go another route. For about the same money, I went the McIntosh route.  Trying to get the Rag into Canada plus if there were any problems, shipping would be a PIA.  I really loved my Schiit stuff when I had it.
  
 Anyway, pic of my rig..


  
  
  
  
 Quote:


highfilter said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler! Nice!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Prothean

mikemercer said:


> I'm finally checking out a Woo WA7 Fireflies - and I'm very surprised at the wonderful synergy w/ my HD800s! Especially when using Double Helix Cables Molecule Elite by @scootermafia
> 
> I don't remember alot of commentary on the WA7 + HD800s. I know there was/is a ton of talk about the synergy w/ Audeze cans - and I can testify to that too.
> But I'm loving the WA7 and HD800s combo!
> ...


 
  
 F*king A  That's the same combo that's I've ordered, didn't think it was possible but now I'm even more excited to get em! Don't have those fancy cables though, do they really make that much of a difference? Not sure I can justify a $300 dollar cable after what I've just spent.


----------



## highfilter

mickeyvee said:


> Nice setup @highfilter !! Being in Canada I had to go another route. For about the same money, I went the McIntosh route. Trying to get the Rag into Canada plus if there were any problems, shipping would be a PIA. I really loved my Schiit stuff when I had it.


 

 Thanks. Funny you mention Canada, as I live in Vancouver, Canada.
  
 I took the hit on the USD conversion and customs, but it was worth it to me in the end. Schiit also double boxed and packed the Rag very well, so no worries there.
  
 I like the look of the McIntosh gear, nice setup.


----------



## elvergun

I've been listening to my D2000 for the last month...and when I switched back to the HD800 yesterday things sounded very bass-light.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 When I started using the D2000, things sounded very boomy and bloated.   It's amazing how the brain adapts to a sound signature.  There is a basshead lurking inside all of us...just waiting to come out.


----------



## MickeyVee

Doh!! I should have seen that you're in Canada  A friend of mine has the NAD M51 and loves it! I've got to give it a try one of these days.  I'd love to hear the Rag with a good DAC someday.  Enjoy your setup!
  
 Quote:


highfilter said:


> Thanks. Funny you mention Canada, as I live in Vancouver, Canada.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

prothean said:


> So I've wanted a high end audio setup for the longest times but never had that kind of disposable income but with my graduate job next year I decided to finally go for it. Purchased the HD800 and the Woo WA7 for $1700 off ebay (used of course, was this a good deal?). I should also note I've been using fairly sub-par $50 cans thus far and also I may or may not be partially death.


 
 Considering that would be about $2500 new ($1500 for HD800 and $1000 for WA7), I'd say that's a good price. Welcome!


----------



## Arttt

​

MacIntosh amp is amazing!


----------



## llcook51

mickeyvee said:


>


 
 The  Glencairn glass is a noble addition to the listening experience.


----------



## TooPoor

So my HD800 just showed up and I have to wait until this weekend until my amp/dac shows up... Super tough not being able to listen to them again. Only headphone I've ever 're-purchased'. For me, they're end game. I'll be pairing them with my AudioGD 10.33, and am very curious to see how they sound considering I've never seen anyone ever comment on the HD800 with an AudioGD product on this forum... Pics when the amp/dac comes back this weekend.


----------



## RingingEars

toopoor said:


> So my HD800 just showed up and I have to wait until this weekend until my amp/dac shows up... Super tough not being able to listen to them again. Only headphone I've ever 're-purchased'. For me, they're end game. I'll be pairing them with my AudioGD 10.33, and am very curious to see how they sound considering I've never seen anyone ever comment on the HD800 with an AudioGD product on this forum... Pics when the amp/dac comes back this weekend.


 
 Congrats and welcome back. I would interested in your thoughts on the AGD 10.33... Too bad you have to stare at them for two days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I just got a new toy today myself. A ud-501.


----------



## TooPoor

It's funny... I get many PM's about the 10.33, but I can't get a thread going! I bought it for it's dual Wolfson chips and seemingly powerful, balanced amp. We'll see if there's any synergy, if not, the Rag seems up to the challenge.


----------



## RingingEars

When I was first looking into a new rig I was looking at the 10.33 because of the Wolfson. I've had a couple wolfson based portable dacs and really liked them. I've also had some Burr Brown based units as well and liked those. I haven't tried any Sabre based units...


----------



## spurxiii

toopoor said:


> So my HD800 just showed up and I have to wait until this weekend until my amp/dac shows up... Super tough not being able to listen to them again. Only headphone I've ever 're-purchased'. For me, they're end game. I'll be pairing them with my AudioGD 10.33, and am very curious to see how they sound considering I've never seen anyone ever comment on the HD800 with an AudioGD product on this forum... Pics when the amp/dac comes back this weekend.




Although my DAC is currently a low end NFB 15.32 it still sounds great with the Master 9 and HD800s. I wonder what improvements I'll get going to the Master 7


----------



## thomascrown

Hi, I know it has been already discussed but I can't find it through the search, I need to buy a pelican case for my hd800, which one is the correct size? (maybe slightly bigger than the audeze's one as it touches the hinges)
 Thanks a lot!
  
 T.
  
 EDIT: 
  
 Nevermind found! 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/426508/sennheiser-hd800-appreciation-thread/4935


----------



## alcyst

cooperpwc said:


> *NVM - still rolling DACs here...



DAC rolling, easier than tube but more expensive. & a lot less retro cool.


----------



## MickeyVee

Actually, I have/use the Audeze case and it's perfect for the HD800.  Don't even need to disconnect the cable.
  
 Quote:


thomascrown said:


> , I need to buy a pelican case for my hd800, which one is the correct size? (maybe slightly bigger than the audeze's one as it touches the hinges)


----------



## pearljam50000

Hi, i'm looking for the HD800 sound in active studio monitors, someone recommended me the Focal Solo6 BE, can anyone comment on that, or give other suggestions? my budget is 3K.
 Sorry if it's a little off topic but i guess people here know the HD800's sound the best, if the mod thinks it's way off topic, please delete, thanks!


----------



## lin0003

Just got a DHC Complement Custom 8-Wire 22AWG Silver Peptide HD800 Cable and I am absolutely blown away. The bass is amazing and the detail is ridiculously good. For this kind of price tough, it should be. I think it costs around $1500 from DHC for the version I have. 
  
 It is the first time I have been absolutely blown away by a cable change and I've had my fair share of cables. The change wasn;t 1 or 2%, it was a huge jump, like 10%. Everything is more dynamic and more engaging.


----------



## spurxiii

lin0003 said:


> Just got a DHC Complement Custom 8-Wire 22AWG Silver Peptide HD800 Cable and I am absolutely blown away. The bass is amazing and the detail is ridiculously good. For this kind of price tough, it should be. I think it costs around $1500 from DHC for the version I have.
> 
> It is the first time I have been absolutely blown away by a cable change and I've had my fair share of cables. The change wasn;t 1 or 2%, it was a huge jump, like 10%. Everything is more dynamic and more engaging.


 
 I've also been blown away in the past with cables and went back to my original cable and thought there was change but nowhere near as much as I thought. Granted I've never spent $1500 on a cable and not sure I will. Can a cable give 10% sonic improvements (not including going from SE to balanced)? I thought that going from my cheapo amp to the Master 9 was about a 10-15% improvement and going from the HE500 to HD800 was huge (not sure the % at this stage)


----------



## lin0003

I guarantee it was not a small change, it felt like I just bought a new amp or something, the bass, detail and clarity were so good.


----------



## spurxiii

lin0003 said:


> I guarantee it was not a small change, it felt like I just bought a new amp or something, the bass, detail and clarity were so good.


 
 Really wow


----------



## thomascrown

mickeyvee said:


>


 
 Yep that's ideal, thanks, especially for the shaped foam inside, but MEC (a Toronto store) sells the pelicans for a cheaper price, so...


----------



## 50Hz

pearljam50000 said:


> Hi, i'm looking for the HD800 sound in active studio monitors, someone recommended me the Focal Solo6 BE, can anyone comment on that, or give other suggestions? my budget is 3K.
> Sorry if it's a little off topic but i guess people here know the HD800's sound the best, if the mod thinks it's way off topic, please delete, thanks!


 
  
 No need to spend 3K these days. Save your money and spend the rest on acoustic treatment for your room (a lot of bass trapping)
  
 Check out the new JBL LSR305 or LSR308 speakers. 
  
 You could even get the 305s and two of the subs if you have some cash to burn. That would be pretty incredible.
  
 Those speakers have some of the same technology as their 20K M2 series 
  
 A few vids about the R&D behind the new range. Sean Olive is the man!
  
 http://youtu.be/Jsu61g_hreg?list=PLtAedWOUcNl08ZJtAHCrIFfoF6s_QEhrc
  
 http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtAedWOUcNl08ZJtAHCrIFfoF6s_QEhrc


----------



## lin0003

Got a HD800 SN10XXX and the sounds is almost indiscernible from my 25XXX one. The pads were rather worn out though, so it didn't sound as good, but no treble peak at all.


----------



## MickeyVee

I work 3 blocks from MEC downtown.  A Pelican 1300 case is $72 which is about the size of the Audeze case (just measured mine).  Talk to Charles at Headfone Shop. He ordered me one and I think I paid the US price of $75 but in Canadian.  No shipping charges or US $ conversion. $3 more for optimal  Worth a trip/call.
 Quote:


thomascrown said:


> Yep that's ideal, thanks, especially for the shaped foam inside, but MEC (a Toronto store) sells the pelicans for a cheaper price, so...


----------



## koiloco

50hz said:


> No need to spend 3K these days. Save your money and spend the rest on acoustic treatment for your room (a lot of bass trapping)
> 
> Check out the new JBL LSR305 or LSR308 speakers.
> 
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## BirdManOfCT

50hz said:


> No need to spend 3K these days. Save your money and spend the rest on acoustic treatment for your room (a lot of bass trapping)


 
 And high-frequency absorption on reflections, if applicable. May not apply to your setup, if near-field, but still consider it. Even longer-delay reflections can have an impact.
  
 Remembering the days when I had a $1500 analyzer +/- 0.25dB. Helped a lot.
  
 Edit: looks like it's more than doubled, which is what I'd expect based on inflation:
  
 http://www.gold-line.com/dsp30.htm
  
 I'd buy it again, no question, if I still had that room setup.


----------



## 50Hz

birdmanofct said:


> And high-frequency absorption on reflections, if applicable. May not apply to your setup, if near-field, but still consider it. Even longer-delay reflections can have an impact.
> 
> Remembering the days when I had a $1500 analyzer +/- 0.25dB. Helped a lot.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can get amazingly powerful room analysis now with a cheap Dayton Audio EMM-6 and Room Eq Wizard software (free)


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Liking just relaxing and listening this evening. Katie Costello sounds really good in "Stranger". Just wish the opening piano recording was miked better.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

50hz said:


> You can get amazingly powerful room analysis now with a cheap Dayton Audio EMM-6 and Room Eq Wizard software (free)


 

 Good stuff. Thanks!


----------



## lin0003

A new pic of my setup. Still so impressed by the NAD.


----------



## RingingEars

lin0003 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Wow. Very impressive rig...


----------



## lin0003

ringingears said:


> Wow. Very impressive rig...


 
 Thanks. 
  
 Sounds absolutely fantastic.


----------



## magiccabbage

lin0003 said:


> A new pic of my setup. Still so impressed by the NAD.


 
 Is that a beta? How old is it - It looks immaculate


----------



## lin0003

magiccabbage said:


> Is that a beta? How old is it - It looks immaculate


 
 Yes, not sure, maybe a few years. 
  
 It's not mine, I'm just borrowing it.


----------



## mikemercer

lin0003 said:


> A new pic of my setup. Still so impressed by the NAD.


 
  
 Now thats a NICE, CLEAN desktop rig for HD800s!!!!
  
 I've been using them w/ my new Woo WA7 Fireflies alot lately.
  
 Yeah - we did a 6-way review of the damn WA7 at Audio360.org - and I came to this party late I know,
 but I'm considering getting the tube power supply too. I heard it with one, and loved it - think that would be great for my HD800s


----------



## BirdManOfCT

mikemercer said:


> Now thats a NICE, CLEAN desktop rig for HD800s!!!!
> 
> I've been using them w/ my new Woo WA7 Fireflies alot lately.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the opinion. I'm considering the WA7tp for my WA7 with HD800 as well. Do you have a link to 6-way review?


----------



## mikemercer

birdmanofct said:


> Thanks for the opinion. I'm considering the WA7tp for my WA7 with HD800 as well. Do you have a link to 6-way review?


 
 Of course!
  
 I'm going to be doing a column at Audio360.org as a follow-up,
 as me and @warrenpchi will be reviewing the WA7tp at Audio360!!
  
 We published an Early Impressions piece there too - on the WA7tp
 But Kevin - one of our guys, is havin a rough time w/ work right now - so I'm gonna do the full review of the WA7tp w/ Warren soon!!
  
Here's the link to the FIRST six-way review of the WA7 Fireflies at Audio360!!
  
 Sincerely hope you dig it.
 That was a lot of editing!





  
 and yeah - honestly, over my Lehmann Linear (which I LOVE w/ the HD800s)
 or my LAu (well, not when running dual-XLR leads to the HD800s) - I'm LOVIN the synergy between the WA7 and HD800s!!


----------



## BirdManOfCT

mikemercer said:


> [clip]
> 
> We published an Early Impressions piece there too - on the WA7tp
> But Kevin - one of our guys, is havin a rough time w/ work right now - so I'm gonna do the full review of the WA7tp w/ Warren soon!!
> ...


 
  
 That's good stuff! Thanks!


----------



## lextek

I've been perfectly content with my HD600/Crack combo. But for some reason this thread has given be an "itch" for the 800s


----------



## RingingEars

lextek said:


> I've been perfectly content with my HD600/Crack combo. But for some reason this thread has given be an "itch" for the 800s


 
 You may want to see if you can demo them locally before shelling out $1500 because they're going to sound quite a bit different from your HD600. 
 They should play very well with the crack though,,,


----------



## whirlwind

I usually do not listen to much female vocals....Beth Hart....Annie Lennox.......I guess a few others 
  
 I recently got some Norah Jones, on the advice of others.....wow...she sounds spectacular on the HD800....what a wonderful voice and talent
  
 Currentley listening to The Peter Malick group....featuring Norah Jones....I am really diggin it.


----------



## mikemercer

ringingears said:


> You may want to see if you can demo them locally before shelling out $1500 because they're going to sound quite a bit different from your HD600.
> They should play very well with the crack though,,,


 
 I second that!
 If you're diggin' the HD600/Crack combo - oh man - the 800/Crack combo should please ya!!!!


----------



## johnstac

First things first. I'm 50 years old but I'm an audio newb. I have spent A LOT of time recently deciding on headphones. Having used Sennheiser products over the past 10 years, the HD800 seemed like the obvious choice. I was relieved that my search was finally over and I could get these ordered along with a dac/amp. That was until I read:
  
*"The most expensive headphones are usually designed to let you hear more things, to hear things clearer than ever before, to give you the pure unaltered reproduction of the recording. While those lines would make a pretty good marketing lines, remember that the majority of music out there have awful recording quality. Unless you are listening to strictly classical music or audiophile jazz, where they tend to come with above-average recording quality, you may want to rethink your decision to buy that $1,000 headphone."*
  
 and this:
  
*"Again, back on the automobile analogy. If you’re driving in downtown Chicago after winter time, the road is full of potholes. It would be nice to be riding in a nice SUV, rather than typical sports car with a fully stiff suspension. It doesn’t matter if your sports car happen to cost three times the cost of the SUV, it’s just the wrong car for the road. Likewise headphones. A $1,000 headphone can sound very awful on the wrong music. Don’t believe me? Try listening to Linkin Park with the $1,800 Sennheiser HD800. You will wonder where that $1,800 went."*
  
 Do all of you wearing your HD 800 only listen to audiophile jazz or classical? This is to say that if I listen to Led Zeppelin, Cheap Trick, Bon Jovi or Van Halen; I can make do with headphones that are half the price or less? While my goal may not be to hear every instrument being played, I am no less passionate about my music. My understanding is that as reference headphones, the HD 800 were designed to reproduce the sounds as they were originally recorded. Admittedly, I have never in my life listened to headphones that cost more than $200. Is it possible that when I listen to the HD 800s for the first time; despite the fact that it will only be rock n roll and not classical or jazz, could I potentially feel a bit euphoric as well? Yes, I'm being facetious but I was just taken aback when I had read that when listening to music other than classical or jazz with these headphones, the music may actually sound terrible. That may be true. I don't know. It was just hard to hear considering how much money I was prepared to spend to make music from my past come alive.
  
 So I guess I am back to square one?


----------



## 62ohm

Personally I like listening to Led Zeppelin with the HD800. But as weird as this sounds, although I am a fan of Bon Jovi (have all of their albums, including solo ones) I don't listen to them as much with the HD800 as it turns out their recordings are pretty bad. There are some of their albums which are recorded well (These Days, Lost Highway, The Circle) and it sounds sublime, but I have to admit the frequency of how often I listen to Bon Jovi since I acquired the HD800 decreases significantly.
  
 I don't listen to Cheap Trick, but Van Halen, apart from several songs, is a no-go with the HD800 for me. That's what I have the HD650 for, to listen to less-than-stellar recorded music. There are other headphones which are more forgiving with badly recorded music though, have you considered the Audeze range?


----------



## MattTCG

I can't answer this question for you...no one can tbh. No one has your collection of music, specific preferences about what sounds "good" nor your particular hearing capacity.
  
 Just based on what you've written here I'd say that if I were in your shoes, I grab on of the many pair of hd600 or hd650. It's true that the hd800 is incredibly revealing and sometimes/often brutally honest when it comes to lesser recordings. The hd600 sells used here for around $225 and the hd650 for in the neighborhood of $300.
  
 Put either of these headphones with the Bottlehead Crack or Valahalla 2 and you'll be for a amazing experience. My two headphones are the hd650 and the hd800. I do tend to listen to "better recordings" on the hd800 and more compressed released with the 650.
  
 Both the amps that I mention will also pair very well with the hd800 should you decide to upgrade to the 800 in the future. If you find that you are not getting what you need from the 600/650 you can easily sell them and get your money back.
  
 Best of luck...


----------



## RingingEars

> Originally Posted by *johnstac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> *"Again, back on the automobile analogy. If you’re driving in downtown Chicago after winter time, the road is full of potholes. It would be nice to be riding in a nice SUV, rather than typical sports car with a fully stiff suspension. It doesn’t matter if your sports car happen to cost three times the cost of the SUV, it’s just the wrong car for the road. Likewise headphones. A $1,000 headphone can sound very awful on the wrong music. Don’t believe me? Try listening to Linkin Park with the $1,800 Sennheiser HD800. You will wonder where that $1,800 went."*
> 
> So I guess I am back to square one?


 
 Actually this is a pretty good analogy and they(whoever wrote this) is correct.
 The HD800 will show you any flaws in a recording.
 Linkin Park, Killers... Horrible on the HD800, but that's the fault of the studio/artist not the headphones and unfortunately there is a lot of crap recordings out there, but with that said there are a lot of very good recordings as well. Not just classical or audiophile jazz. There are a lot of artist that take great care and a personal interest in there recordings on a studio level from all genres.
 My advice would be to check out you favorite artists on spotify.You will be pleasantly surprised at how much wonderful sounding music in all genres that sound super fine on the HD800 is out there.


----------



## magiccabbage

matttcg said:


> Put either of these headphones with the Bottlehead Crack or Valahalla 2 and you'll be for a amazing experience. My two headphones are the hd650 and the hd800. I do tend to listen to "better recordings" on the hd800 and more compressed released with the 650.


 
 I though that I would do that when I had the HD800 and 650 at the same time but it turned out that it was all HD800 and no 650 which is why I sold them later. 
  
 On recordings that are not great the HD800 will show up the mistakes but also highlight other things that are great that you just don't get with lesser headphones. 
  
 And over all there are not that many albums I have that I would consider unlistenable with HD800  - In the rare cases where this happens I just change to a really warm tube in my WA2 and problem solved 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





johnstac said:


>


----------



## magiccabbage

One other thing JOHNSTAC - I think you should take the plunge and if it doesn't work out you can sell them and get most of your money back.


----------



## MickeyVee

Since you started with age.. I'm nearing my mid 50's and music was my saving grace from the 70's on.  A lot of good recording and a lot of crap recordings.  I have a huge collection of 80s and 90s music that by any account, was poorly mastered and recorded.  There are some gems like Dire Straits and BTO plus there but they're in the minority. I have a lot of newer music from iTunes and some stuff from HDTracks and still buy CDs.
  
 No matter what the recording is, the HD800 are a phenomenal headphone given that it's backed with a decent DAC and AMP. It's funny, the more I sent over the last 3 years the more I'm having fun.  Each step was about learning, what I liked and what I didn't until I ended up with  my personal 'end game'.. It's not about the $$. It's about what each setup brought to the music.  I'm pretty much at the pinnacle of my upgraditis and I've never enjoyed my music collection more. I'm done with the equipment and my time and resources from now on will be listening to my current collection and expanding on it. The HD800 is the cornerstone. Are they perfect? No. But with my source, I can pretty much listen to anything in my collection.
  
 You're journey may take yo to other places and that's OK.  There's a lot of good and great stuff out there. The HD800 is not the be all and end all for many, probably most people but for the group gathered here, it's part of their enjoyment.
 Hope this helps. M.
  
  
 Quote:


johnstac said:


>


----------



## drez

I do listen to a range of music an recording qualities with the HD800 but, as your quoted review points out, there will be little gain with poor recordings, and HD800's will also point out every area in which associated equipment or recordings could be improved.  I guess it's a bit of glass-half-full/empty thing.
  
 So using HD800's exclusively for poor recordings using modest associated equipment is probably not a good idea.  it's probably better to go with something more forgiving like Audez'e LCD-2 or a HifiMan planar or something…  Something that won't show all the imperfections at full contrast/sharpness.  Maybe something that adds some body, smoothness and warmth.


----------



## ivanlyf

johnstac said:


> First things first. I'm 50 years old but I'm an audio newb. I have spent A LOT of time recently deciding on headphones. Having used Sennheiser products over the past 10 years, the HD800 seemed like the obvious choice. I was relieved that my search was finally over and I could get these ordered along with a dac/amp. That was until I read:
> 
> *"The most expensive headphones are usually designed to let you hear more things, to hear things clearer than ever before, to give you the pure unaltered reproduction of the recording. While those lines would make a pretty good marketing lines, remember that the majority of music out there have awful recording quality. Unless you are listening to strictly classical music or audiophile jazz, where they tend to come with above-average recording quality, you may want to rethink your decision to buy that $1,000 headphone."*
> 
> ...


 
  
 My opinion: 
  
 I'm a new user to my HD800 and regularly switch between my Adam Audio Artist 5 Speakers and the HD800. Oh and I listen to classical music and jazz 100% of the time.
  
 I agree with everyone's opinions...the HD800 is incredibly revealing while still maintaining the layers between various instruments. This makes it a joy when using it for classical music because I can hear every instrument in the orchestra, and appreciate how the composer utilizes them to construct the melody of the piece.
  
 The excellent stereo imaging that everyone talks about is also true. When I close my eyes and listen, it is possible to visualize how the orchestra / trio / quartet is positioned..like where's the violin, viola, horn etc.
  
 If I have a bad recording, the HD800 does make the recording extremely awful. But well, music is my hobby and my opinion of hifi is hifi takes me deeper into the music, not deeper into the sound signature. So, I make my peace with my HD800 and tell myself to look beyond the sound quality and appreciate the artist instead. 
  
Hope this helps you to choose.
  
And my audio setup is below if anyone is interested....I've more or less completed my setup from the power conditioning to source to speakers and cables. 
  

  
  
 Disclaimer: I love revealing sound signatures and I'm not keen on true EQ flatness; I prefer some emphasis in the mids and treble


----------



## johnstac

Well thank you very much for your honest, yet frank answers. With what I had wrote, I had expected to get flamed by at least one person. Refreshing that there are cool people out there. I think I will take a look at Audeze and then the 600 & 650. I have to say, I really love Sennheiser so there is a good chance I will go in that direction. Assuming I go with one of those, can someone point me in the right direction for a dac/amp combo? This setup will be in conjunction with a new PC rig. Using a Creative Sound Blaster Zx. Someone recommended something called an NFB-15. I googled it but the site was half in Chinese and I couldn't understand it. I know the amp/dac are equally as important as the headphones. My budget for the amp/dac is around 1K. Suggestions welcomed. Thanks again.


----------



## ivanlyf

johnstac said:


> Well thank you very much for your honest, yet frank answers. With what I had wrote, I had expected to get flamed by at least one person. Refreshing that there are cool people out there. I think I will take a look at Audeze and then the 600 & 650. I have to say, I really love Sennheiser so there is a good chance I will go in that direction. Assuming I go with one of those, can someone point me in the right direction for a dac/amp combo? This setup will be in conjunction with a new PC rig. Using a Creative Sound Blaster Zx. Someone recommended something called an NFB-15. I googled it but the site was half in Chinese and I couldn't understand it. I know the amp/dac are equally as important as the headphones. My budget for the amp/dac is around 1K. Suggestions welcomed. Thanks again.


 
  
 I will try to recommend a 'complete' setup beyond the amp/dac. Something that also covers the power supply and cabls.
  
 ifi iDSD micro (amp+DAC) with iUSB with Gemini USB cable.
  
 You get a complete setup within 1K which covers cable and power supply for the DAC...
  
 You can also re-use the Gemini USB cable and iUSB for subsequent upgrades...


----------



## RUMAY408

johnstac said:


> First things first. I'm 50 years old but I'm an audio newb. I have spent A LOT of time recently deciding on headphones. Having used Sennheiser products over the past 10 years, the HD800 seemed like the obvious choice. I was relieved that my search was finally over and I could get these ordered along with a dac/amp.
> 
> Do all of you wearing your HD 800 only listen to audiophile jazz or classical? This is to say that if I listen to Led Zeppelin, Cheap Trick, Bon Jovi or Van Halen; I can make do with headphones that are half the price or less? While my goal may not be to hear every instrument being played, I am no less passionate about my music. My understanding is that as reference headphones, the HD 800 were designed to reproduce the sounds as they were originally recorded. Admittedly, I have never in my life listened to headphones that cost more than $200. Is it possible that when I listen to the HD 800s for the first time; despite the fact that it will only be rock n roll and not classical or jazz, could I potentially feel a bit euphoric as well? Yes, I'm being facetious but I was just taken aback when I had read that when listening to music other than classical or jazz with these headphones, the music may actually sound terrible. That may be true. I don't know. It was just hard to hear considering how much money I was prepared to spend to make music from my past come alive.
> 
> So I guess I am back to square one?


 
 I've been more often pleasantly surprised by my older CD's than disappointed. I listen to Rock primarily, and I am slowly working my way through several hundred CD's.  Ex, the sound imaging and detail on "Garbage 2.0" blew me away. Expand an old audio collection by revealing the audio you never knew was there.


----------



## MattTCG

rumay408 said:


> I've been more often pleasantly surprised by my older CD's than disappointed. I listen to Rock primarily, and I am slowly working my way through several hundred CD's.  Ex, the sound imaging and detail on "Garbage 2.0" blew me away. Expand an old audio collection by revealing the audio you never knew was there.


 
  
 I knew that some of the rockers would chime in. Good advice here.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

johnstac said:


> Well thank you very much for your honest, yet frank answers. With what I had wrote, I had expected to get flamed by at least one person. Refreshing that there are cool people out there. I think I will take a look at Audeze and then the 600 & 650. I have to say, I really love Sennheiser so there is a good chance I will go in that direction. Assuming I go with one of those, can someone point me in the right direction for a dac/amp combo? This setup will be in conjunction with a new PC rig. Using a Creative Sound Blaster Zx. Someone recommended something called an NFB-15. I googled it but the site was half in Chinese and I couldn't understand it. I know the amp/dac are equally as important as the headphones. My budget for the amp/dac is around 1K. Suggestions welcomed. Thanks again.


 

 Another rocker, here. Classic rock mostly. Although that's harder to judge what is real and what is mixed. Which is why classical and jazz are (sometimes) better gauges of accuracy.
  
 Try the Woo Audio WA7. With the stock tubes. I'm using it with HD800 and liking it. Yes, upgrade-itis kicks in, but if I were "stuck" with this, I'd probably be happy. In fact, I may stay with it for a while, even after considering my upgrade options.


----------



## longbowbbs

I listen to a ton of Metal and classic rock with the HD800's. Love them! Van Halen? Bring it!  
  
 Of course, the chain is the thing....Running the HD800's through the tubes and a great DAC make such a difference particularly with overproduced treble enhanced 80's & 90's material.


----------



## Drsparis

Personally my musical tastes have shifted ever since I got my hd800's and I think that's okay  I enjoy well recorded music and listen to different music now than I used to.


----------



## RUMAY408

drsparis said:


> Personally my musical tastes have shifted ever since I got my hd800's and I think that's okay
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 +1


----------



## SoupRKnowva

I use my 800s primarily with modern extreme metal and pop and I love them. I even use the Gungnir which is an extremely "intense" sounding DAC that most people don't like with the 800s. So maybe take my opinion with a grain of salt. 

Regardless of the recording quality though you are certainly gonna hear more of what is present than you ever have before, good or bad.


----------



## Amictus

souprknowva said:


> I use my 800s primarily with modern extreme metal and pop and I love them. I even use the Gungnir which is an extremely "intense" sounding DAC that most people don't like with the 800s. So maybe take my opinion with a grain of salt.
> 
> Regardless of the recording quality though you are certainly gonna hear more of what is present than you ever have before, good or bad.


 
 +1 on the HD800s plus Gungnir. Works for me via Lehmann Linear SE or Lyr. Extreme classical in my case, although with many excursions off-piste.


----------



## kothganesh

Johnstac:
  
 I listen only to classic rock...no jazz or orchestral or symphonies for me. My rig for the moment is Gungnir (or Bifrost Uber)-Vali-HD 800. Very very good SQ for the most part. For those song/albums that sound poor, I am now hunting for better recordings.


----------



## 62ohm

kothganesh said:


> Johnstac:
> 
> I listen only to classic rock...no jazz or orchestral or symphonies for me. My rig for the moment is Gungnir (or Bifrost Uber)-Vali-HD 800. Very very good SQ for the most part. For those song/albums that sound poor, I am now hunting for better recordings.


 
  
 Would you mind sharing how do you think the Bifrost Uber compares to the Gungnir for the HD800 alone using the same amp? Cheers.


----------



## Arttt

johnstac said:


> First things first. I'm 50 years old but I'm an audio newb. I have spent A LOT of time recently deciding on headphones. Having used Sennheiser products over the past 10 years, the HD800 seemed like the obvious choice. I was relieved that my search was finally over and I could get these ordered along with a dac/amp. That was until I read:
> 
> *"The most expensive headphones are usually designed to let you hear more things, to hear things clearer than ever before, to give you the pure unaltered reproduction of the recording. While those lines would make a pretty good marketing lines, remember that the majority of music out there have awful recording quality. Unless you are listening to strictly classical music or audiophile jazz, where they tend to come with above-average recording quality, you may want to rethink your decision to buy that $1,000 headphone."*
> 
> ...




Get hd800 with Auralic Taurus and a high end dac if budget allows. Auralic has great dac as well.. Maybe naim v1? Sounds not bad with hd800, that combo is good with rock. Great rhythm, pace and timing, music comes alive.

My point is, get hd800 and forget about poor music, badly recorded. Hd800 will guide you into better music by making poor music impossible to listen! There's lot of great music, recorded properly , not only jazz or classic )
All genders got proper recorded music. Don't limit yourself to rock from 70s...

Get hd800 and RE DISCOVER music! 

If you decide to stick with old rock from 70s, get more forgiving headphone. Beyerdynamic T1 with beyerdynamic A1 amp sounds good, or audeze lcd-2. 
I wouldn't waste money on good audio gear, for listening to poor music. But usualy better gear demands better sound quality of the recording, and step by step it's owner goes from cheap music to a better music. You are 50 years old and don't have much time, get best headphone rig and start listen to good music


----------



## chengka7

johnstac said:


> First things first. I'm 50 years old but I'm an audio newb. I have spent A LOT of time recently deciding on headphones. Having used Sennheiser products over the past 10 years, the HD800 seemed like the obvious choice. I was relieved that my search was finally over and I could get these ordered along with a dac/amp. That was until I read:
> 
> *"The most expensive headphones are usually designed to let you hear more things, to hear things clearer than ever before, to give you the pure unaltered reproduction of the recording. While those lines would make a pretty good marketing lines, remember that the majority of music out there have awful recording quality. Unless you are listening to strictly classical music or audiophile jazz, where they tend to come with above-average recording quality, you may want to rethink your decision to buy that $1,000 headphone."*
> 
> ...


 
 Lol, I used my HD800 as main headphones, and I never think HD800 lacks ability playing Linkin Park well. It depends on the choice of your headphone amplifier. If you want to make your HD800 sound euphoric but at the same time has lots of weight, DNA Stratus is a great choice.
  
 And if you do not want to spend more than 3k on amplifiers and tubes, I also agree that HD650 or HD600 is a better choice given the price performance ratios. Plus you do not need to invest lots of money on amp and DAC. For HD600/650/800 maybe an OTL design amp would be a better choice. I do not like Solid state amp on HD800.


----------



## kothganesh

62ohm:
  
 IMO, The Bifrost is a little grainier compared to the Gungnir.


----------



## mikemercer

oh man,
  
 I also discovered recently that I LUV the synergy w/ Double Helix Cables Comp4 & Comp2 and my HD800s! - both their dual-XLR (which I use on my LAu + NuForce HA200s in balanced mono-block configuration) and the single-ended version (terminated 1/4" for me - but Peters new adapter system is also GREAT BTW).
  
 The Comp4, to me, breathed new life into the airy & wide-open goodness of the HD800s.
  
 The HD800s + DHC combo just sounds so fresh together - it's like their individual voicing blends beautifully...
  
 Needed to share that!


----------



## Sorrodje

johnstac said:


> Well thank you very much for your honest, yet frank answers. With what I had wrote, I had expected to get flamed by at least one person. Refreshing that there are cool people out there. I think I will take a look at Audeze and then the 600 & 650. I have to say, I really love Sennheiser so there is a good chance I will go in that direction. Assuming I go with one of those, can someone point me in the right direction for a dac/amp combo? This setup will be in conjunction with a new PC rig. Using a Creative Sound Blaster Zx. Someone recommended something called an NFB-15. I googled it but the site was half in Chinese and I couldn't understand it. I know the amp/dac are equally as important as the headphones. My budget for the amp/dac is around 1K. Suggestions welcomed. Thanks again.


 
  
  
 Do yourself a favor and go for a Modi/Vali stack . It's not the last word for the HD800 for sure but it sounds "right" without transforming the HD800 in anything else. the little Schitt Stack is IMO incredibly engaging and add some fun ( aka oommph, groove, energy , forwardness) to the HD800 sound. it should sound well for rock IMO.
  
 If after several weeks, the HD800 doesn't fit the bill for you , you'll be happy not to have spent too much money in the rig  . My 2 cents.
  
 I had the AudioGD NFB12.1 ( older version of the NFB15) + Vali too. And it sounds good too.


----------



## zilch0md

Regarding good recordings vs. bad, when I first got my HD800, I had to resort to creating an HD800 playlist just to avoid the fatigue caused by most recordings with the upstream gear I had at the time. I was enabling my poor-quality hardware by selecting songs with dark treble, primarily.  
  
 At the time, I was convinced that once I got the right upstream equipment, I would be able to listen to nearly anything with the HD800, but that's not the case.  As I've improved the DAC and amp, my HD800 playlist has grown much larger, but it's still a minority of my library. I've concluded that an HD800 owner must keep an alternate headphone for listening to everything else.
  
 For me, that's the LCD-2 rev.1 - it makes nearly everything sound "good," but doesn't come close to doing what the HD800 can do when you feed it a proper signal. 
  
 My advice is to buy upstream hardware that allows the HD800 to be all that it can be, resigning yourself to of a small, "worthy" library of recordings, rather than crippling the HD800 with hardware that allows you to listen to a larger portion of your collection - only to deprive yourself of what the HD800 can do with the best recordings.  This strategy rules out both the Schiit Vali and the Schiit Valhalla 2, both of which I tried. 
  
 I'm currently very happy with chain discussed in this post:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/583814/amp-dac-for-disappointed-hd800-owner/180#post_11047983
  
 Mike


----------



## MattTCG

This is all to say that some people will have an issue with hd800's treble and revealing nature, some will not. Depends on your preferences and tolerances. For me, the hd800 with the Valhalla 2 and Anax 2.0 mod, make this setup a daily driver for me irrespective of the type of music I choose to listen to.


----------



## magiccabbage

matttcg said:


> This is all to say that some people will have an issue with hd800's treble and revealing nature, some will not. Depends on your preferences and tolerances. For me, the hd800 with the Valhalla 2 and Anax 2.0 mod, make this setup a daily driver for me irrespective of the type of music I choose to listen to.


 
 Are you planning on buying another amp soon Matt?


----------



## bearFNF

rumay408 said:


> I've been more often pleasantly surprised by my older CD's than disappointed. I listen to Rock primarily, and I am slowly working my way through several hundred CD's.  Ex, the sound imaging and detail on "Garbage 2.0" blew me away. Expand an old audio collection by revealing the audio you never knew was there.



This is my experience, also. My Jimi Hendrix collection is a prime example of hearing more than I have before. I can hear all sorts of stuff in the background.


----------



## pearljam50000

is there any black Friday deal on the HD800?


----------



## ogodei

You're best bet may be the Sennheiser outlet, looks like their out of stock right now.   Amazon often has open box deals.


----------



## MattTCG

magiccabbage said:


> Are you planning on buying another amp soon Matt?


 
  
 Well. yes kinda and by accident. I picked up a Fisher 500c circa 1964 to drive some speakers with. I plugged in the hd800 into this "old" amp and it is the best amp that I've ever heard the 800 with. At first I was in shock. Now...just ecstatic.


----------



## Eee Pee

bearfnf said:


> My Jimi Hendrix collection is a prime example of hearing ... all sorts of stuff in the background.


 
  
 That led me to buying so many reissued Hendrix albums in the mid 90s it's not funny.  Good thing the music is killer.  Mitch Mitchell.  Oh yes.


----------



## magiccabbage

matttcg said:


> Well. yes kinda and by accident. I picked up a Fisher 500c circa 1964 to drive some speakers with. I plugged in the hd800 into this "old" amp and it is the best amp that I've ever heard the 800 with. At first I was in shock. Now...just ecstatic.


 
 Wow - you will have to post pics! You cant just tease me like that with no pics - Best you have heard ever??


----------



## MattTCG

Yes, best ever. And I realize that is a bold statement and I may get flamed but yes, "best ever."  I won't name all the amps I've owned and tried for the magic combination with the 800...I'll just say that I've quit looking for upgrades for the 800.


----------



## zilch0md

Hi bearFNF,
  
 Quote:


bearfnf said:


> This is my experience, also. My Jimi Hendrix collection is a prime example of hearing more than I have before. I can hear all sorts of stuff in the background.


 
  
 What are using as your DAC and amp for the HD800  (that allow you to enjoy Jimi Hendrix albums with it)?
  
 Thanks,
  
 Mike


----------



## magiccabbage

matttcg said:


> Yes, best ever. And I realize that is a bold statement and I may get flamed but yes, "best ever."  I won't name all the amps I've owned and tried for the magic combination with the 800...I'll just say that I've quit looking for upgrades for the 800.


 
 Sweet mother of Moses! I will start collecting some of those vintage receivers eventually. The Fischer goes for between 1000 and 1500 yea? So what are the specs for speakers and will it also put watts into a headphone like the LCD cans? Maybe I should ask this on the receiver thread


----------



## MattTCG

magiccabbage said:


> Sweet mother of Moses! I will start collecting some of those vintage receivers eventually. The Fischer goes for between 1000 and 1500 yea? So what are the specs for speakers and will it also put watts into a headphone like the LCD cans? Maybe I should ask this on the receiver thread


 
  
 I paid $850 with a full restoration and feel like that I just stole it tbh. It's worth 2x that just as a speaker amp. But factor in what it does for the hd800. I haven't even told you about the 500c with a speaker tap cable and the he560...add he6 to that list also.


----------



## magiccabbage

matttcg said:


> I paid $850 with a full restoration and feel like that I just stole it tbh. It's worth 2x that just as a speaker amp. But factor in what it does for the hd800. I haven't even told you about the 500c with a speaker tap cable and the he560...add he6 to that list also.


 





  
 Eh Matt - my birthday is the 8th if you know what i mean..........


----------



## analog'd

matttcg said:


> magiccabbage said:
> 
> 
> > Are you planning on buying another amp soon Matt?
> ...


 

 oh cool! I'm sitting a few yards from my daughters fisher (with the original fisher labled telefunkin tubes in it) as she has it stored here for a bit. it was time to fire up the tubes anyway, so  now I can
 t wait to try the hd800's out of it.


----------



## MattTCG

magiccabbage said:


> :eek:
> 
> Eh Matt - my birthday is the 8th if you know what i mean..........


Strippers?


----------



## magiccabbage

analog'd said:


> oh cool! I'm sitting a few yards from my daughters fisher (with the original fisher labled telefunkin tubes in it) as she has it stored here for a bit. it was time to fire up the tubes anyway, so  now I can
> t wait to try the hd800's out of it.


 
 A girl into Audio gear - that's a rare occurrence. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





matttcg said:


> Strippers?


----------



## bearFNF

zilch0md said:


> What are using as your DAC and amp for the HD800  (that allow you to enjoy Jimi Hendrix albums with it)?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mike



The operative words are "let ME enjoy Hendrix"...  

That being understood, here's my chain: oppo 103 (FLAC)=>full uberfrost (optical)=> asgard 2 (Used as preamp)=> taboo MKIII=> HD800 with Q french silk (4 pin XLR). 

I don't have the tubes in my brain so if you want to know that I will look at them tonight after work and let you know.


----------



## analog'd

magiccabbage said:


> analog'd said:
> 
> 
> > oh cool! I'm sitting a few yards from my daughters fisher (with the original fisher labled telefunkin tubes in it) as she has it stored here for a bit. it was time to fire up the tubes anyway, so  now I can
> ...


 

 well, yeah, there don't seem to be that many girls/women into it. but she grew up loving what she was hearing so when she was ready at around age 15 or so for her own rig I got her the fisher to drive it. she's been under grados and senns since she was little. and all of that, plus bringing her to gigs (I blow harp locally in bands) when I could led to her being a full time drummer. she's about to go on tour all over the place in Europe and the UK with Laura Stevenson (http://www.laurastevenson.net/). she plays guitar and keys as well and is cultivating her own singer/songwriter thing besides the drumming. I am waaaaayyyyyy the proud papa!


----------



## magiccabbage

analog'd said:


> well, yeah, there don't seem to be that many girls/women into it. but she grew up loving what she was hearing so when she was ready at around age 15 or so for her own rig I got her the fisher to drive it. she's been under grados and senns since she was little. and all of that, plus bringing her to gigs (I blow harp locally in bands) when I could led to her being a full time drummer. she's about to go on tour all over the place in Europe and the UK with Laura Stevenson (http://www.laurastevenson.net/). she plays guitar and keys as well and is cultivating her own singer/songwriter thing besides the drumming. I am waaaaayyyyyy the proud papa!


 
 Wow - keep us posted on albums and what not. Be interesting to hear what she's up to. Been playing guitar myself for years, Had a sax a one stage but sold it.


----------



## magiccabbage

She is playing in Dublin on the 12th - I might go and see her if im off. Sounds interesting - just watched a few vids on youtube. 
  
 In fibbers as well, sure i know the place well


----------



## analog'd

magiccabbage said:


> analog'd said:
> 
> 
> > well, yeah, there don't seem to be that many girls/women into it. but she grew up loving what she was hearing so when she was ready at around age 15 or so for her own rig I got her the fisher to drive it. she's been under grados and senns since she was little. and all of that, plus bringing her to gigs (I blow harp locally in bands) when I could led to her being a full time drummer. she's about to go on tour all over the place in Europe and the UK with Laura Stevenson (http://www.laurastevenson.net/). she plays guitar and keys as well and is cultivating her own singer/songwriter thing besides the drumming. I am waaaaayyyyyy the proud papa!
> ...


 
 thanks. the Laura Stevenson recordings so far are from before she joined them, but I expect they'll be in the studio pretty soon. she just got back from a 10 day tour of the east coast, and this summer was out a bunch (notably the Riot Fest in Toronto and Chicago). it's funny, everyone was worried that she'd hate the road, but she LOVES it. she got back last week and is biting at the bit to go back out (even if it wasn't overseas). goes to show ya never know. chuck berry said it : "...the old folks said it goes to show you never can tell". that's me I guess, at 62. 

 yeah, playing an instrument is such a great thing in so many ways.


----------



## johnstac

arttt said:


> You are 50 years old and don't have much time, get best headphone rig and start listen to good music


 
 LOL.


----------



## analog'd

magiccabbage said:


> She is playing in Dublin on the 12th - I might go and see her if im off. Sounds interesting - just watched a few vids on youtube.
> 
> In fibbers as well, sure i know the place well


 

 very cool. please let me know if you go!


----------



## fpsoft1

johnstac said:


> With what I had wrote, I had expected to get flamed by at least one person.


 
 Here, another one with HD800 and Pop-Rock-Electronic music. I am 49 and I use Sennheiser headphones since I was 12 (it was the HD40).
  
 One year ago I wanted to upgrade my Sennheiser HD600 (great headphone) so I bought for the first time a no-Sennheiser headphone: it was the HifiMan HE-500, because I read that HD800 was not good for Rock-Electronic and has light bass and harsh highs.
  
 Well, I've used HE500 with the amps Schiit Lyr (only one day, not bad), the Hifiman EF-5 (30 days, sounds good but little power) and the Emotiva mini-xa100 (50wx2, attached to speakers output, plenty of power but highs too harsh, maybe an impedance problem), but I was always missing something for my tastes (bass not clear, headstage non-existent, I have to say that voices where very good).
  
 Then, after 6 months (june 2014) I bought the HD800, I attached it to the jack of a 35 years old cheap integrated amp (Nikko Na-1090), listened to "Giorgio Moroder - Knights in white satin" and I was not believing my ears: great bass, very clean, not muddy, not boomy, simply clear and deep, sweet highs, fantastic headstage. Only in some very very bassy songs the HD800 shows its limits (eg. Kylie Minogue Sexercise, but always sounds better than on HE500).
  
 Then after one month I bought the amp Sennheiser HDVA600 and the Sennheiser XLR cable (I have no money and time for experimentation, so I chose to go full Sennheiser without thinking too much). Now I have difficulties at night to go to sleep because I do not want stop listening my HD800 with Giorgio Moroder, Smiths, Soft Cell, MGMT and so on. Dac is Arcam rDac, gives good bass, cheap.
  
 I've sold the HE500 and Emotiva without regrets and I'm completely addicted to my HD800, everyday I appreciate it more. I'll thank Sennheiser forever.


----------



## RUMAY408

fpsoft1 said:


> Here, another one with HD800 and Pop-Rock-Electronic music. I am 49 and I use Sennheiser headphones since I was 12 (it was the HD40).
> 
> One year ago I wanted to upgrade my Sennheiser HD600 (great headphone) so I bought for the first time a no-Sennheiser headphone: it was the HifiMan HE-500, because I read that HD800 was not good for Rock-Electronic and has light bass and harsh highs.
> 
> ...


 

 I totally get the addiction part, I have an hour a day minimum, devoted to HD800 listening.


----------



## MattTCG

rumay408 said:


> I totally get the addiction part, I have an hour a day minimum, devoted to HD800 listening.


 
  
 It's one of the best hours of my day.


----------



## deuter

What versions of hd800 to avoid? 
I knew the earlier ones had the treble spikes.


----------



## RingingEars

rumay408 said:


> I totally get the addiction part, I have an hour a day minimum, devoted to HD800 listening.


 
  
  


matttcg said:


> It's one of the best hours of my day.


 
 Agreed. At least an hour a day.


----------



## koiloco

deuter said:


> What versions of hd800 to avoid?
> I knew the *earlier ones had the treble spikes.*


 
 That's a busted myth.  They all have the treble spikes for some people.


----------



## No_One411

deuter said:


> What versions of hd800 to avoid?
> I knew the earlier ones had the treble spikes.


 
  


koiloco said:


> That's a busted myth.  They all have the treble spikes for some people.


 
  
 Gonna have to agree with Koiloco here. 
  
 Having listened to a couple of stock HD800s now, I honestly couldn't tell if there was much of a difference at all. 
  
 If there was, it must have been very faint, and my mortal ears require more convincing there is a major difference between early - current models.


----------



## akhyar

deuter said:


> What versions of hd800 to avoid?
> I knew the earlier ones had the treble spikes.


 

 If you're buying 2nd-hand, you can ask the original owner to email you the frequency plot.
 Some have the spike at 4-6kHz, while some are not so obvious.
 Whether you will hear the differences or not, only your ears can tell you.


----------



## freedom01

Hi guys, between hd600 and hd650, which one would be a better complement to hd800 ?


----------



## PleasantSounds

freedom01 said:


> Hi guys, between hd600 and hd650, which one would be a better complement to hd800 ?


 
  
 Out of the two HD600 is more similar to the HD800.
 I'd go with the 650


----------



## fpsoft1

freedom01 said:


> Hi guys, between hd600 and hd650, which one would be a better complement to hd800 ?


 
 I own HD600 and HD800, after buying HD800 the HD600 is no more used, you won't need it, HD800 is much better in all areas.


----------



## akhyar

freedom01 said:


> Hi guys, between hd600 and hd650, which one would be a better complement to hd800 ?


 
  
 If your complement means different sound signature, go for the 650.


----------



## lin0003

Yeah, the 650 will be better. 
  
 The HD800 is essentially a brighter HD600 and better in every single area.


----------



## 62ohm

Hi lin0003,
  
 How do you find the Beta22 compared to the V200 for the HD800? Cheers


----------



## lin0003

62ohm said:


> Hi lin0003,
> 
> How do you find the Beta22 compared to the V200 for the HD800? Cheers


 
 It is more neutral, the V200 is quite warm. 
  
 The V200 is a very good amp, but the B22 is simply better in every area. Impact, dynamics, detail, soundstage, imaging and speed are better than the V200. It is a very solid step up. 
  
 I have also tried the HDVD800 and TBH I wasn't really convinced. It was good, but I think it is around the level of the V200 whereas the B22 was that small step up. 
  
 Of course, each B22 will be different depending on who built it.


----------



## 62ohm

Interesting, I tried the V200 and the BHA-1 when getting a new amp and went with the HDVA600. Each to their own I guess..


----------



## lin0003

62ohm said:


> Interesting, I tried the V200 and the BHA-1 when getting a new amp and went with the HDVA600. Each to their own I guess..


 
 I didn't try them balanced, so maybe that's why. 
  
 Do you think it makes a large difference?


----------



## 62ohm

lin0003 said:


> 62ohm said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting, I tried the V200 and the BHA-1 when getting a new amp and went with the HDVA600. Each to their own I guess..
> ...


 
  
 It does make a difference, but IMO not a night & day difference like some claims it to be.
  
 edit: Maybe my ears aren't good enough, who knows..


----------



## lin0003

62ohm said:


> It does make a difference, but IMO not a night & day difference like some claims it to be.
> 
> edit: Maybe my ears aren't good enough, who knows..


 
 I'm not sure I really buy into the whole balanced is better thing. 
  
 The B22 I have is balanced and I compared the single ended and balanced out and found very minute differences. 
  
 I really like the mainline, sounds very good, but it's DIY and quite expensive.


----------



## whirlwind

ringingears said:


> rumay408 said:
> 
> 
> > I totally get the addiction part, I have an hour a day minimum, devoted to HD800 listening.
> ...


 
 Yep, me too.
  
 I just bought The Beatles stereo 16 cd box set from 2009
  
 I am enjoying it greatly with the HD800


----------



## freedom01

Same here. Totally immersed into hd800. 
Going to invest in some classical symphony cds

But my dac/amp is not up to certain standard. May have to upgrade down the road.


----------



## pedalhead

62ohm said:


> Hi lin0003,
> 
> How do you find the Beta22 compared to the V200 for the HD800? Cheers


 
  
 Back when I still had my HD800s & a Woo WA22, I tried out the Senns with a B22 at a Headfi meet and the combination blew me away.  Such a dynamic and wonderfully detailed combination.


----------



## pedalhead

Incidentally, I've been discussing the HD800 with someone who owns three (!) pairs (s/n 123xx, 159xx, 291xx) and he says there are significant differences between them, particularly in terms of soundstage & HF.  Any thoughts on that?  Apologies if it's been addressed already, I haven't read the whole thread -).  My HD800s were very early ones from 2009 and I did feel they could be a bit bright and unforgiving.


----------



## lin0003

A week ago I owned a 10XXX and a 25XXX but now I just have the 25. The 25 was a bit more V-shaped and had better imaging. More bass is a huge plus.


----------



## 62ohm

pedalhead said:


> Incidentally, I've been discussing the HD800 with someone who owns three (!) pairs (s/n 123xx, 159xx, 291xx) and he says there are significant differences between them, particularly in terms of soundstage & HF.  Any thoughts on that?  Apologies if it's been addressed already, I haven't read the whole thread -).  My HD800s were very early ones from 2009 and I did feel they could be a bit bright and unforgiving.


 
  
 It is an age-old question, many seem to think they are different and many others says they're not. What's make it even more interesting is that Headroom actually have 3 different measurements of the HD800, and they all have different FR.


----------



## pedalhead

Thanks guys, interesting info.  I wonder if a variation in each unit is naturally to be expected, although clearly there is quite some difference between those Headroom measurements, particularly in the high frequencies. As I'm in the market for some hi-end cans again I figure it's worth listening to some later HD800s as they may sound rather different to my #01563 unit.


----------



## preproman

lin0003 said:


> I'm not sure I really buy into the whole balanced is better thing.
> 
> The B22 I have is balanced and I compared the single ended and balanced out and found very minute differences.
> 
> I really like the mainline, sounds very good, but it's DIY and quite expensive.


 
  
 Althought I didn't like the HD800 or HE-6 with my 4 channel B22 all that much.  I loved it with the T1, LCD-2.2, LCD-3, HE-500, HE-4, HE-5LE, AKGs, ATs and just about any other headphone.  That B22 was a beast..


----------



## Arttt

I owned two pairs, they sound different. One had more body and tonality was different, sound was more refined. the other was more airy and had more sparkl in highs, midrange was more forward and lows had more impact.

I preferred the older version...

Had 4 pairs of beyerdynamic t5p, all sound different. First pair had liquid juicy midrange with lots of treble and warmth.
Second sounded more detailed, more clarity, background was more black.
Third pair sounded even more detailed, bass was articulated , could " see" the bassline crystal clear. But it had less body.

Now the forth pair with serial number above 22000 is a different sound signature. Sounds nothing like previous pairs.
It's no more liquid in midrange, no warmth...

Sound is dry, has more body, less detailed, more bass, both in mids and in sub bass areas...
Voices shouting, very mids focused headphone...

Reminds me more of T1 now...


I guess it's not often we buy more than one pair of high end headphones of same model, so it's not often we can compare them to each other...

If I had one pair of hd800 or t5p I wouldn't know how different, pairs from different brackets sound, and if someone would told me that same model can sound different depending on a bracket, I wouldn't believe it...


----------



## BobJS

pedalhead said:


> Incidentally, I've been discussing the HD800 with someone who owns three (!) pairs (s/n 123xx, 159xx, 291xx) and he says there are significant differences between them, particularly in terms of soundstage & HF.  Any thoughts on that?  Apologies if it's been addressed already, I haven't read the whole thread -).  My HD800s were very early ones from 2009 and I did feel they could be a bit bright and unforgiving.


 
  
 Are we sure we can't attribute these differences to different conditions of the pads?


----------



## MattTCG

I have not found differences worth reporting with the older and newer pair that I've owned.


----------



## Arttt

bobjs said:


> Are we sure we can't attribute these differences to different conditions of the pads?




With time pads get thinner and ear gets closer to a driver. That can effect soundstage and resolution, effects bass.
But doesn't effect sonics signature...


----------



## ZzBOG

Guys, after all the listening and choosing looks like I will go after HD800 (instead of HE-6 - too mucht trouble amping or LCD-3 - seems really overpriced and I really value soundstage).
  
 I know for jazz/ classical HD800 is unmatched. But how is ambient music on HD800? Something like Burial for example or stuff from this album (Hyperdub 4.0, link to Spotify below)? 
  
 http://open.spotify.com/album/7lWZBylSfygoS8WRczT7Sn
  
 Also - my favorite artist of all time is The Knife. How is there stuff on HD800? 
  
 And the last one - I listen to all music on Spotify Premium (320kbps mostly) - is it ok for HD800? I don't really buy into the "unforgiving to bad recordings" thing, but what about lossy (320kbps) stuff?


----------



## longbowbbs

zzbog said:


> Guys, after all the listening and choosing looks like I will go after HD800 (instead of HE-6 - too mucht trouble amping or LCD-3 - seems really overpriced and I really value soundstage).
> 
> I know for jazz/ classical HD800 is unmatched. But how is ambient music on HD800? Something like Burial for example or stuff from this album (Hyperdub 4.0, link to Spotify below)?
> 
> ...


 
 Ambient and the 800 is other worldly. You are in the middle of space with the sound.


----------



## Arttt

320 kbs will sound thinn flat and dirty...
When i listen to Spotify i use t5p or dt150
Hd800 fot critical listningen only.


----------



## RingingEars

arttt said:


> 320 kbs will sound thinn flat and dirty...
> When i listen to Spotify i use t5p or dt150
> Hd800 fot critical listningen only.


 
 I'd have to disagree.
 The HD800 sounds excellent with Spotify.
 ZzBog. I usually don't listen to dub step, but was listening to Kyoto on spotify. My jaw dropped. Yeah the HD800 sounds good with that genre...


----------



## Sorrodje

zzbog said:


> Guys, after all the listening and choosing looks like I will go after HD800 (instead of HE-6 - too mucht trouble amping or LCD-3 - seems really overpriced and I really value soundstage).
> 
> I know for jazz/ classical HD800 is unmatched. But how is ambient music on HD800? Something like Burial for example or stuff from this album (Hyperdub 4.0, link to Spotify below)?
> 
> ...


 
  
 All atmospheric electronic musics sound extraordinary well with the HD800.
  
 No pb with Good MP3.


----------



## Arttt

sorrodje said:


> All atmospheric electronic musics sound extraordinary well with the HD800.
> 
> No pb with Good MP3.




There is no such thing as " good mp3" 
What the point of geting hd800 IF you going to listen to compressed audio? 
Hd650 is fine for it...


----------



## Sorrodje

arttt said:


> There is no such thing as " good mp3"
> What the point of geting hd800 IF you going to listen to compressed audio?
> Hd650 is fine for it...


 
  
 IMO Music format matters less more than mastering/recording. Good MP3 is in my mind  good recording encoded in 320Kbps MP3 .  I dont ear so much differences betwenn a 320 Kbps Mp3 and a Flac. but my ears are surely not good enough.
  
 Sorry but I've no problem to listen to Streamed MP3s with my HD800 despite the fact all my library is in FLAC.


----------



## RingingEars

sorrodje said:


> IMO Music format matters less more than mastering/recording. Good MP3 is in my mind  good recording encoded in 320Kbps MP3 .  I dont ear so much differences betwenn a 320 Kbps Mp3 and a Flac. but my ears are surely not good enough.
> 
> Sorry but I've no problem to listen to Streamed MP3s with my HD800 despite the fact all my library is in FLAC.


 
 Agreed.
 I have some FLAC redbook rips that sound like crap and some downloaded MP3s that soung really good. It's all in the original mastering.


----------



## Arttt

Well sorrodje..
Good recording in MP3 sounds better than bad recording in Flac, no doubt !
Those who get hd800 want the ultimate listening experience, good recording uncompressed can't be compared to a compressed one. Compressed music sounds flat, it's striped of lot of audio data, there's no dynamic, no energy that engage you into music, simply speaking MP3 sounds flat and grey and soft, there's no body... On a high end rig you can hear it more than on a mid-fi rig, and hd800 definetly belong in a high end rig.

Your ears not good enough ?) are you used to listen to MP3 most of the time? How long have you been listening to music with hd800 ? (you got amp and a dac in same class as hd800 I assume )

Hearing develops, once you start to listen to music in high quality format, good recordings, on high end gear you hearing ( brain ) will slowly but surely learn to notice all the details, and more...

The way you listen to music changes during life too. The more you listen the better your brain gets at noticing music and not just hear it as a background, while your attention else where...


----------



## Arttt

ringingears said:


> Agreed.
> I have some FLAC redbook rips that sound like crap and some downloaded MP3s that soung really good. It's all in the original mastering.




The redbook rips that sound like crap will sound even worth in MP3 , and mp3 that sound good will sound better once you get them in lossless, uncompressed format.
Simple...


----------



## Arttt

Point is, uncompressed audio will always sound better than compressed.


----------



## RingingEars

arttt said:


> Well sorrodje..
> Good recording in MP3 sounds better than bad recording in Flac, no doubt !
> Those who get hd800 want the ultimate listening experience, good recording uncompressed can't be compared to a compressed one. Compressed music sounds flat, it's striped of lot of audio data, there's no dynamic, no energy that engage you into music, simply speaking MP3 sounds flat and grey and soft, there's no body... On a high end rig you can hear it more than on a mid-fi rig, and hd800 definetly belong in a high end rig.
> 
> ...


 
 You can check my sig for the gear I run with the HD800 less dacs That I've owned that have been returned.
  
 I've loved music(in a serious way) since I was a teenager(I'm 45) and have had some nice mid-fi(sub stupid amounts of $$$) tube based 2 ch rigs past and present. Now I don't know what you consider "hi-fi" vs "mid-fi", but admittedly I have never owned $10,000 plus amps speakers, or otherwise and never will. The HD800 does not fall in this class(hi-fi based on $$$ spent) nor does any headphone I'm aware of.
  
 I'm not sure how golden my ears are. That's a pretty subjective topic but I did just have a hearing test done last spring by my audiologist and she was surprised how good my hearing was for a man my age... I would say I'm above average.


----------



## dynarec

Hi there everybody, I just have a simple question.  I'm currently running my HD800 through a Matrix M-stage amplifier but with thoughts of upgrading to a Violectric V200,   My question is will I hear a notIceable increase in quality with the HD800 through the Violectric V200?  They sound pretty nice with my Matrix M-stage anyway but just thought I'd ask you lot if it would be a worthy upgrade.   Thanks for your help.


----------



## PleasantSounds

arttt said:


> The redbook rips that sound like crap will sound even worth in MP3 , and mp3 that sound good will sound better once you get them in lossless, uncompressed format.
> Simple...


 
  
 I'm afraid it's not that simple. In comparative testing quite a lot of people are not able to distinguish between lossless and mp3/320. From those who do, many point to the mp3 as sounding better.
  
 I have done some testing between FLAC and mp3/320 created from the same master, and while usually I can detect some minute differences, this exercise taught me some respect for the pm3 format. Recommend you do the same, as I have a feeling you're shooting from the hip.


----------



## Chodi

dynarec said:


> Hi there everybody, I just have a simple question.  I'm currently running my HD800 through a Matrix M-stage amplifier but with thoughts of upgrading to a Violectric V200,   My question is will I hear a notIceable increase in quality with the HD800 through the Violectric V200?  They sound pretty nice with my Matrix M-stage anyway but just thought I'd ask you lot if it would be a worthy upgrade.   Thanks for your help.


 
 Having run my HD800 through a Matrix M Stage at one point I can say with certainty that the V200 would be a noticeable improvement. the Matrix with the right opamps does a very respectable job but the V200 is in a different league.


----------



## magiccabbage

zzbog said:


> ? Something like Burial for example or stuff from this album (Hyperdub 4.0, link to Spotify below)?


 
  
 I have the Burial "Untrue" album - sounds brilliant on HD800.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

62ohm said:


> It is an age-old question, many seem to think they are different and many others says they're not. What's make it even more interesting is that Headroom actually have 3 different measurements of the HD800, and they all have different FR.


 
  
 Wow!


----------



## zilch0md

bearfnf said:


> The operative words are "let ME enjoy Hendrix"...
> 
> That being understood, here's my chain: oppo 103 (FLAC)=>full uberfrost (optical)=> asgard 2 (Used as preamp)=> taboo MKIII=> HD800 with Q french silk (4 pin XLR).
> 
> I don't have the tubes in my brain so if you want to know that I will look at them tonight after work and let you know.




^ Thanks for this!

Mike


----------



## RUMAY408

I'm currently going insane with the SACD out of my OPPO-BDP105>XLR balanced>Meier Classic>balanced HD800
  
 The key is to trick the SACD output on the OPPO (the OPPO has to be in DSD stereo mode) to output to the HP amp directly, so I have the HDMI out to the (SACD enabled receiver) on without any connection via the receiver to the HP amp.
  
 Elton John's "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road 30th Anniversary" SACD kills with the HD800,
  
 quick take if you switch off the receiver it will flip back to CD, blind test that.


----------



## Taliesin

I was wondering if people had some impressions of the HD800 on the schiit Lyr 2 vs Valhalla 2


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Anyone remember those analogy questions, say from SAT tests?  You know, A :B :: C : D (or "A is to B as C is to D")
  
 HD800 : mp3 :: foie gras : ketchup !
  
 You get the idea!


----------



## drez

I wish I could listen to Spotify, but unfortunately about 5 seconds is about all I can last.  That is the standard free bitrate which IIRC is 160kb/s.  320kb/s should be OK but I'm not going to go out and pay for it.  I would rather spend the money on good recordings in good format.
  
 It is true though that music file format is secondary to recording quality.


----------



## 50Hz

arttt said:


> 320 kbs will sound thinn flat and dirty...
> When i listen to Spotify i use t5p or dt150
> Hd800 fot critical listningen only.


 
  
 lol


----------



## Arttt

ringingears said:


> You can check my sig for the gear I run with the HD800 less dacs That I've owned that have been returned.
> 
> I've loved music(in a serious way) since I was a teenager(I'm 45) and have had some nice mid-fi(sub stupid amounts of $$$) tube based 2 ch rigs past and present. Now I don't know what you consider "hi-fi" vs "mid-fi", but admittedly I have never owned $10,000 plus amps speakers, or otherwise and never will. The HD800 does not fall in this class(hi-fi based on $$$ spent) nor does any headphone I'm aware of.
> 
> I'm not sure how golden my ears are. That's a pretty subjective topic but I did just have a hearing test done last spring by my audiologist and she was surprised how good my hearing was for a man my age... I would say I'm above average.




I consider cans like dt880 hd700 mid-fi, t5p t1 lcd-2 rs1000 hi-fi, and hd800 sr007 omega mk2 sr009 high end. Why do you mention prices? price of audio gear not always reflecting sound quality, lots of overpriced stuff out there...

I don't understand why someone would get most revealing headphone ( hd800) and listen to flat and grey compressed audio, no matter if recording( mastering) is good or bad, it will sound worst if compressed to mp3 and it will sound better in lossless formats. High resolution formats 24/192 is another story...

When you buy hd800 it's because you want the best there is, right? Why not get the best there is in audio quality of recording ? 
The only explanation I can think of is that people don't hear the difference between MP3 and lossless formats, in that case what roll hd800 has? Something pretty expensive and comfortable siting on your head? 

Better buy a pretty hat


----------



## Chodi

I'm posting this here because we have a lot of HD800 owners in this thread. I just purchased a new set of ear pads for my HD800's and I cannot for the life of me get the new pads to snap into place. If anyone here knows a trick to this they can share it will save me a lot of grief. I tried lining them up and pressing them in place but they won't lock down. I got frustrated trying so I decided to see if the old pads snap into place and they do. The new pads are a direct replacement in a Sennheiser bag from an authorized dealer. They visually look the same as the old pads. Any advice from someone who has been through this would be helpful.


----------



## zilch0md

chodi said:


> I'm posting this here because we have a lot of HD800 owners in this thread. I just purchased a new set of ear pads for my HD800's and I cannot for the life of me get the new pads to snap into place. If anyone here knows a trick to this they can share it will save me a lot of grief. I tried lining them up and pressing them in place but they won't lock down. I got frustrated trying so I decided to see if the old pads snap into place and they do. The new pads are a direct replacement in a Sennheiser bag from an authorized dealer. They visually look the same as the old pads. Any advice from someone who has been through this would be helpful.


 
  
  Quoting:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/503058/how-to-remove-hd800-ear-pads-finally-i-figured-how
  


> I almost forgot, putting them back is as easy as just pushing them back in.


 
  
 Subsequent posts to that same thread provide more useful info on putting the pads back on.  (I've never tried it myself.)
  
 This video, linked from a post in that thread, might be useful.


----------



## Chodi

Thanks very much zilch0md for the post but I have already seen that information. I realize I am just supposed to be able to push and snap them back in place but that isn't working for me. I am shipping the headphones with the new pads back to the dealer tomorrow and let them deal with it. I regret losing the headphones for a week or two in the shipping time but it is the only practical solution. These do not just press back in place and lock like the original pads. I guess I will just be back with my T1's for a while.


----------



## Sorrodje

chodi said:


> Thanks very much zilch0md for the post but I have already seen that information. I realize I am just supposed to be able to push and snap them back in place but that isn't working for me. I am shipping the headphones with the new pads back to the dealer tomorrow and let them deal with it. I regret losing the headphones for a week or two in the shipping time but it is the only practical solution. These do not just press back in place and lock like the original pads. I guess I will just be back with my T1's for a while.


 
  
 Did you try to snap back the older pads  ?


----------



## Mortalcoil

chodi said:


> I'm posting this here because we have a lot of HD800 owners in this thread. I just purchased a new set of ear pads for my HD800's and I cannot for the life of me get the new pads to snap into place. If anyone here knows a trick to this they can share it will save me a lot of grief. I tried lining them up and pressing them in place but they won't lock down. I got frustrated trying so I decided to see if the old pads snap into place and they do. The new pads are a direct replacement in a Sennheiser bag from an authorized dealer. They visually look the same as the old pads. Any advice from someone who has been through this would be helpful.


 
  
 Keep in mind also that when replacing the pad you want to gradually work (Insert) the pad into place.
  
 Almost like using a can opener,  connect the pad to the headphone a little at a time.  Take baby steps around the whole circumference (pushing the pad into the groove in small increments).
  
 May take a few tries but you will get it.


----------



## Chodi

sorrodje said:


> Did you try to snap back the older pads  ?


 
 Yes, they snap right into place with a little pressure. That's the first thing I tried when I knew I was having a problem with the new pads. They are just not locking in place.


----------



## Sorrodje

chodi said:


> Yes, they snap right into place with a little pressure. That's the first thing I tried when I knew I was having a problem with the new pads. They are just not locking in place.


 
  
  
 So : Possibly fake or defective pads maybe.   I'll purchase some new pads and headband cushion myself and then I'll send it to Colorware. My HD800 needs rejuvenating


----------



## RingingEars

sorrodje said:


> So : Possibly fake or defective pads maybe.   I'll purchase some new pads and headband cushion myself and then I'll send it to Colorware. My HD800 needs rejuvenating


 
 Oh nice. I want to send mine in to colorware, but I need to wait until the warranty expires so I have a way to go. What color(s) are you doing?


----------



## Sorrodje

ringingears said:


> Oh nice. I want to send mine in to colorware, but I need to wait until the warranty expires so I have a way to go. What color(s) are you doing?


 
  
 All Mate black with Steel grey screens maybe   ... nearly the same than Maxvla one's
  

  
  
 https://www.colorware.com/p-289-sennheiser-hd-800.aspx?c=3en-254jm|3eo-2575g|3ep-259rg|3eq-25cdg|3er-25f7m something like that Maybe... it's not the same black than MAxvla I think . I don't know i he used Jet black or Carbon black.
  
 Another exemple for Jet black HD800 :


----------



## RingingEars

sorrodje said:


> All Mate black with Steel grey screens maybe   ... nearly the same than Maxvla one's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's going to look great.
 I was thinking of doing mine like the white and metallic blue on that page...


----------



## Frank I

I
  
  
 I want to do my HD 800 same color as my amp.


----------



## RingingEars

^^ Wow. That's a nice amp. A matching HD800 would look great.


----------



## mikemercer

sorrodje said:


> All Mate black with Steel grey screens maybe   ... nearly the same than Maxvla one's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 AWESOME
  
 I love what ColorWare does!
 Thinkin' bout getting my HD800s in that red-n-black finish...


----------



## magiccabbage

Im gonna get mine done in black with a blue ring to match my DNA Startus when it arrives


----------



## MattTCG

magiccabbage said:


> Im gonna get mine done in black with a blue ring to match my DNA Startus when it arrives


 
  
 Oooh...I like that sound of that. Pics when you get 'em.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

frank i said:


> I
> 
> 
> 
> I want to do my HD 800 same color as my amp.


. 
Great idea... Matching HD 800 and amp. Improves their compatibility and sound, too.


----------



## 62ohm

magiccabbage said:


> Im gonna get mine done in black with a blue ring to match my DNA Startus when it arrives


 
  
 Sounds great, mate. Be sure to post some picture of them!


----------



## magiccabbage

matttcg said:


> Oooh...I like that sound of that. Pics when you get 'em.


 
  


62ohm said:


> Sounds great, mate. Be sure to post some picture of them!


 
 you guys will be sick of me posting pics when I get the Stratus!


----------



## RingingEars

magiccabbage said:


> you guys will be sick of me posting pics when I get the Stratus!


 
 Never!!!


----------



## Frank I

I think it would look really cool. with he same yellow and black combo and I could sit it right next to the amp.


----------



## Priidik

62ohm said:


> It is an age-old question, many seem to think they are different and many others says they're not. What's make it even more interesting is that Headroom actually have 3 different measurements of the HD800, and they all have different FR.


 
  
 Different setups. They changed the amp at some point i think.


----------



## Priidik

arttt said:


> There is no such thing as " good mp3"
> What the point of geting hd800 IF you going to listen to compressed audio?
> Hd650 is fine for it...


 
 MP3 and compression does not exactly fit in a same sentence.
 You get approximations instead of real information, but its still 96dB of dynamics.
 Oh, you meant zipping..  
  
 Regarding fidelity, i can usually pick out, which is mp3 and which is lossless with monitors and HD800 rig, although i must agree with PleasantSounds, todays LAME is realy good codec. In casual listening i can't discern LAME encoded stuff from FLAC. The obviously crappy sounding mp3-s are ime just encoded badly or from crappy master.


----------



## analog'd

matttcg said:


> magiccabbage said:
> 
> 
> > Are you planning on buying another amp soon Matt?
> ...


 

 well I'll be an (audio) monkey's uncle! 12 years ago I bought one of ray samuals amps for sammi (my daughter) to run the signal to from her fisher 500c, because her grados didn't sound that great driven by  the headphone out on the fisher. neither did my rs1's. so I never looked back and always just blew off the fisher's headphone out.

 sooo. I fired up sammi's fisher an hour ago, let the tele's warm up for half an hour and plugged my cardas cord from my hd800's into that fisher. hot damn! the friggin' 800s do indeed love the fisher. it sounds great. have to leave it on for a lot longer to really check it out, but I could be happy as a clam leaving em plugged in there. now, I rolled em back to my burson soloist and still like what I'm hearing there, so I don't have to steal my kid's receiver, but shoot Matt, you stumbled on some sweet setup! at the moment I'm listening to a superb sounding The Hunter by Bjork (45 rpm vinyl needledrop at 24 96). don't think I've ever heard it sound better.

 btw, do you happen to know what tubes are in your fisher?


----------



## lin0003

I really don't understand the idea that getting the HD800 for MP3s is a waste because it is definitely not. The difference between MP3 and FLAC is minute and you I have to listen very closely to tell any difference. 
  
 MP3s don't sound bad on the HD800 at all.


----------



## analog'd

lin0003 said:


> I really don't understand the idea that getting the HD800 for MP3s is a waste because it is definitely not. The difference between MP3 and FLAC is minute and you I have to listen very closely to tell any difference.
> 
> MP3s don't sound bad on the HD800 at all.


 

 yer opening a can o worms BUT: I listen to vinyl and to high resolution digital all the time. but when my daughter sends me an mp3 copy of something to hear, it often sounds quite fantastic.

 without a/bing it to much higher res, a well done better mp3 can indeed sound good.

 having said that, if you have the same source through very good hi res gear and compare you will most certainly hear the improvements. the trouble is most peeps get snobbish once they've heard that better sound, and they scoff at anything that's "lessor".

 there is a depth of sound (dynamics) and even tonality that a killer pressing on a great vinyl rig, and likewise (or even more so if it's a digital recording) a high res copy through a great DAC can deliver that mp3 can't touch. that doesn't mean that all mp3 sounds like crap though.

 blah blah blah, etc etc etc.


----------



## MattTCG

analog'd said:


> well I'll be an (audio) monkey's uncle! 12 years ago I bought one of ray samuals amps for sammi (my daughter) to run the signal to from her fisher 500c, because her grados didn't sound that great driven by  the headphone out on the fisher. neither did my rs1's. so I never looked back and always just blew off the fisher's headphone out.
> 
> sooo. I fired up sammi's fisher an hour ago, let the tele's warm up for half an hour and plugged my cardas cord from my hd800's into that fisher. hot damn! the friggin' 800s do indeed love the fisher. it sounds great. have to leave it on for a lot longer to really check it out, but I could be happy as a clam leaving em plugged in there. now, I rolled em back to my burson soloist and still like what I'm hearing there, so I don't have to steal my kid's receiver, but shoot Matt, you stumbled on some sweet setup! at the moment I'm listening to a superb sounding The Hunter by Bjork (45 rpm vinyl needledrop at 24 96). don't think I've ever heard it sound better.
> 
> btw, do you happen to know what tubes are in your fisher?


 
  
 Ha! At least I have one believer now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 There is quite a bit of work that goes into getting the Fisher or any vintage receiver back up to spec. But once you get there, you can experience some real magic. The tubes in my 500c are original. I believe that they are Fisher branded telefunkens.
  
 Glad to hear that you are enjoying one of the best vintage pieces out there. The 500c is truly special. Right now I'm listening to the Fisher with he560's through a speaker tap cable to the receiver...I have no words to describe just how good it is.


----------



## analog'd

matttcg said:


> analog'd said:
> 
> 
> > well I'll be an (audio) monkey's uncle! 12 years ago I bought one of ray samuals amps for sammi (my daughter) to run the signal to from her fisher 500c, because her grados didn't sound that great driven by  the headphone out on the fisher. neither did my rs1's. so I never looked back and always just blew off the fisher's headphone out.
> ...


 

 yeah, and we also now know it works in Georgia and Massachusetts. maybe it's ok for Texas even.


----------



## lin0003

analog'd said:


> yer opening a can o worms BUT: I listen to vinyl and to high resolution digital all the time. but when my daughter sends me an mp3 copy of something to hear, it often sounds quite fantastic.
> 
> without a/bing it to much higher res, a well done better mp3 can indeed sound good.
> 
> ...


 
 There is indeed a difference between high res and mp3, but the differences are often very much exaggerated. I was given the impression that mp3s would be unlistenible with the HD800 before I purchased them.


----------



## analog'd

analog'd said:


> matttcg said:
> 
> 
> > analog'd said:
> ...


 

 you know that there is a huge following of the Fisher all around the globe. many know that it can't be touched for the bucks, properly running and with great tubes. we are listening to similar sounds as the teles are indeed original equipment and are amazing. I set up a few friends after they heard sammi's fisher and they still have and love theirs. it was easier and less expensive 12 years back to go that route..


----------



## analog'd

lin0003 said:


> analog'd said:
> 
> 
> > yer opening a can o worms BUT: I listen to vinyl and to high resolution digital all the time. but when my daughter sends me an mp3 copy of something to hear, it often sounds quite fantastic.
> ...


 

 that's hogwash (the unlistenable thing). depends on the recording and the rig. there ARE a lotta lousy mp3 copies of things out there, but there are also a lotta lousy 24 192 copies of things


----------



## preproman




----------



## RingingEars

preproman said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
 Wow. The 445 looks amazing. Is your HD800 hardwired?


----------



## preproman

Thanks
 Yes - by SAA..


----------



## RingingEars

Nice.
 I think when my warranty is up I'm going to send mine to colorware for a custom paint and then have them hardwired...
 I can't stand the connectors rattling all the time.


----------



## lin0003

preproman said:


> Thanks
> Yes - by SAA..


 
 Just wondering, why not go for a normal HD800 cable? This way you can still change cables?


----------



## RingingEars

lin0003 said:


> Just wondering, why not go for a normal HD800 cable? This way you can still change cables?


 
 I can't speak for preproman, but for me, I love the Norne Draug2 cable. I don't see any reason to swap it out so when the time comes I'm going to have mine hardwired.


----------



## preproman

lin0003 said:


> Just wondering, why not go for a normal HD800 cable? This way you can still change cables?


 

 Not into changing cables.  I like hardwiring my headphones.


----------



## lin0003

ringingears said:


> I can't speak for preproman, but for me, I love the Norne Draug2 cable. I don't see any reason to swap it out so when the time comes I'm going to have mine hardwired.


 
 Does it improve the sound? I suppose it is one less connector, but it shouldn't alter the sound right?


----------



## preproman

ringingears said:


> I can't speak for preproman, but for me, I love the Norne Draug2 cable. I don't see any reason to swap it out so when the time comes I'm going to have mine hardwired.


----------



## MattTCG

ringingears said:


> I can't speak for preproman, but for me, I love the Norne Draug2 cable. I don't see any reason to swap it out so when the time comes I'm going to have mine hardwired.


 
  
 I would consider hardwiring my Draug 2. It's really just that good.


----------



## preproman

lin0003 said:


> Does it improve the sound? I suppose it is one less connector, but it shouldn't alter the sound right?


 
  
 The best connectors are no connectors..  Think about it.  You may be hearing your connectors instead of your cables...  Just saying..


----------



## RingingEars

lin0003 said:


> Does it improve the sound? I suppose it is one less connector, but it shouldn't alter the sound right?


 
 There were a few posts in the old HD800 thread about this and some claimed to hear a difference. I have not heard both myself so I'm not sure...


----------



## RingingEars

Oh and another point: Anyone can have a standard generic HD800, but few have a custom colored, hardwired HD800. I just think it looks bad ass


----------



## lin0003

ringingears said:


> Oh and another point: Anyone can have a standard generic HD800, but few have a custom colored, hardwired HD800. I just think it looks bad ass


 
 Haha lol. 
  
 Colorware matte black too!


----------



## dclaz

I assume ColorWare use high quality materials that won't affect the sound at all?


----------



## lin0003

dclaz said:


> I assume ColorWare use high quality materials that won't affect the sound at all?


 
 It's just paint?


----------



## drez

Just think if you hardwire it _saves_ you from buying other cables.  If a better cable comes out it doesn't diminish the quality of the hard wired cable.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

ruthieandjohn said:


> .
> Great idea... Matching HD 800 and amp. Improves their compatibility and sound, too.


 

 How long is the burn-in time?


----------



## dclaz

lin0003 said:


> It's just paint?


 
 Ahh rightio. Thought for some reason they might have replaced the parts with different materials.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Had them since July, and there has been no change in quality over time. So they are either already burned in or burnin has little effect. 

Oh, and Colorware is an authorized Sennheiser distributor, and the original Sennheiser guarantee still holds. The paint they use is harder and more nick resistant than the original finish, and its appearance is flawless. There is a video on the Colorware site that shows their paint process. While it costs about $300 if you send them an HD800 to color, it is only $100 extra if you buy the HD800 from them colored.


----------



## TooPoor

Finally back in the HD800 world. I originally had the HD800 with PS Audio DLIII + V200 and I thought that was amazing. Had to sell it, blah blah. Got back into the game with a lot of other HP's, ie LCD2.2, HE-500, HE-560, LFF Enigmas, Sig Pro, etc etc. Many different amps and DACs...
  
  Now I'm running a AudioGD 10.33 (dual WM1874) single ended into my new HD800 and they sound better than ever. Norne Draug2 on order which will allow me to run the amp section balanced (1.2W@300ohm vs. 300mW@300ohm!!). Can't wait to see how they sound balanced.
  
  That being said... I'm looking towards the future. Rag/Yggy stack vs. Master9/Master7 stack ???


----------



## audiokid

I'm now firmly in the HD800 camp.
  
 I decided to move the Stax 507/323s on and keep the HD800, driven by a Chord Hugo. 
  
 It's was a close contest – the Stax are extremely good, but over time I preferred a few things about the HD800:
  
 - After some adjustment, I found them comfier for longer listens. 
 - Amazing sense of space
 - Staggering detail
 - And the deal-maker was that they're portable with the Hugo, unlike the Stax.
 - The Stax 'crackle' started to annoy me a little bit when I moved my head too quickly. 
  
 So, HD800 wins. They're now the only pair of headphones I have now after owning Stax 507 & 009, Grado GS1000i, RS1i and Audeze LCD-X.


----------



## RingingEars

audiokid said:


> So, HD800 wins. They're now the only pair of headphones I have now after owning Stax 507 & 009, Grado GS1000i, RS1i and Audeze LCD-X.


 
 Does that mean you prefer them over the 009?


----------



## icebear

audiokid said:


> I'm now firmly in the HD800 camp....
> 
> So, HD800 wins. They're now the only pair of headphones I have now after owning Stax 507 & 009, *Grado GS1000i, *RS1i and Audeze LCD-X.


 
  
 Hi audiokid,
 I was thinking of getting a GS1000e as an alternative for the HD800. Not all music sound good on the Sennheiser when the recording/mastering is not perfect. I'm not sure how much different the i and e version are but what's your take on the differences of the GS1000 and the HD800 ? Are the Grados as comfortable although a little heavier ? Do you perceive a good sound stage or is there a distinct "inside the head" impression with the Grados?
 Thanks for your input.


----------



## audiokid

I would say out of that list, the GS1000i were my least favourite. They were soooo bright, although I did find them nice and light and fairly comfy. 
  
 I preferred the RS1i to the GS1000i by a decent margin.


----------



## audiokid

Hard to say, I didn't compare the 009 with the HD800 directly, although the 507 overlapped with both. 
I couldn't justify the 009 in comparison to the 507, I found the bass a bit soft although they were very detailed and easy to wear. The 507 had more punch and a bit more drama on some albums. I kept the 507/323s... But later sold that lot when the HD800 settled in. 
I'm not sure I'd go back to Stax as they have some practical issues, they need large energisers and they can be a bit unreliable. 
The HD800s aren't perfect (no headphone is) but they are pretty special. I'm going to try the Lehmann linear in comparison to the bare Hugo, see if it makes any difference.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

audiokid said:


> I would say out of that list, the GS1000i were my least favourite. They were soooo bright, although I did find them nice and light and fairly comfy.
> 
> I preferred the RS1i to the GS1000i by a decent margin.


 






 
  
 RS1i > GS1000i, the GS are comfy though and weight almost nothing


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


>


 
  
 Your last review was great. Very well written


----------



## dclaz

audiokid said:


> I'm now firmly in the HD800 camp.
> 
> I decided to move the Stax 507/323s on and keep the HD800, driven by a Chord Hugo.
> 
> ...


 
 Is that typical of Stax headphones?


----------



## MattTCG

dclaz said:


> Is that typical of Stax headphones?


 
  
 Yes, it's called the Stax fart...seriously.


----------



## isquirrel

matttcg said:


> Yes, it's called the Stax fart...seriously.


 

 The Stax fart, lol, do they all do that?


----------



## audiokid

All of them except the 007/009 I believe due to a different design? Might be incorrect here, someone feel free to chime in.


----------



## kothganesh

audiokid said:


> All of them except the 007/009 I believe due to a different design? Might be incorrect here, someone feel free to chime in.


 

 Nope, the 007 and the 009 also exhibit this characteristic.


----------



## ubs28

audiokid said:


> I'm now firmly in the HD800 camp.
> 
> I decided to move the Stax 507/323s on and *keep the HD800, driven by a Chord Hugo*.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm also using the Chord Hugo with the HD800. Sounds excellent


----------



## audiokid

kothganesh said:


> Nope, the 007 and the 009 also exhibit this characteristic.


 
 I stand corrected! 
  
 I did read somewhere that the 009 had a different design that prevented it, and the pair I had were absolutely fine. That's not always considered a good thing though, as I believe it's a sign of a tightly sealed electrostatic unit. 
  
 Anyway, it's safe to say it never happens with the HD800!


----------



## audiokid

ubs28 said:


> I'm also using the Chord Hugo with the HD800. Sounds excellent


 
 Yes, it's a great sound – although admittedly I haven't heard the HD800 with anything else yet. 
  
 I'm keen to try a recommended amp (Like the black cube linear) with the Hugo as a DAC but it may only detract from this great combo.
  
 Any thoughts here?


----------



## isquirrel

ubs28 said:


> I'm also using the Chord Hugo with the HD800. Sounds excellent


 

 I need to revisit the HD800's when I demoed a pair with he Hugo they were new out of box and sounded bright/thin, how many hours do they need to settle down and produce their best, I have heard it can take a while?


----------



## lin0003

audiokid said:


> Yes, it's a great sound – although admittedly I haven't heard the HD800 with anything else yet.
> 
> I'm keen to try a recommended amp (Like the black cube linear) with the Hugo as a DAC but it may only detract from this great combo.
> 
> Any thoughts here?


 
 If you are going with a full sized amp why not go with a full sized setup?


----------



## wink

Quote:audiokid 





> I decided to move the Stax 507/323s on and keep the HD800, driven by a Chord Hugo.


 
 The Stax SR-009 from a Stax SRM-323S is not in the same league as The Stax SR-009 from a KGSSHV.
  
 I prefer my HD800 more than the SR-009/SRM323S combo.
 The HD800 is not in the same league as the SR-009/KGSSHV combo.
  
 btw, the HD800 are driven by a 80W/ch Class A balanced amp.


----------



## audiokid

I'd like to keep the Hugo as I do often listen in various places around the house. It's convenient. 
  
 However, when at my desk I prefer having a proper volume control, and a neater set up, without the cables flying out everywhere.


----------



## audiokid

wink said:


> The Stax SR-009 from a Stax SRM-323S is not in the same league as The Stax SR-009 from a KGSSHV.
> 
> I prefer my HD800 more than the SR-009/SRM323S combo.
> The HD800 is not in the same league as the SR-009/KGSSHV combo.
> ...


 
 Ah yes of course, I had the Kimik 007tII with the 009 although I understand some don't recommend that either.


----------



## zilch0md

isquirrel said:


> I need to revisit the HD800's when I demoed a pair with he Hugo they were new out of box and *sounded bright/thin*, how many hours do they need to settle down and produce their best, I have heard it can take a while?


 
  
 Having checked your profile, I have to say that even with hundreds of hours of burn-in, the HD800 will always sound bright and thin to anyone accustomed to the Audeze LCD-3 - all else being the same. In the end, you might have to drive the HD800 with a different amp and perhaps a different DAC, as well, to move its signature_ in the direction of_ the Audeze sound, but you'll never actually get there. That's OK, though. In my opinion, and I'm saying this as a huge fan (four years and counting) of the LCD-2 rev.1,* the HD800 brings so much to the table that you owe it to yourself to adapt to its signature.* And I'm confident I would offer the same encouragement if I were an LCD-3 owner.
  
 So, accepting the fact that the HD800 will always sound like an HD800 is the first hurdle for an Audeze-conditioned listener, but in addition to some recommendations made here in this thread for DAC/amp pairings and/or mods that can degrade or mask some of the HD800's most distinguishing virtues, there are several recommendations of DAC/amp pairings that can supply the HD800 with a signal that allows its virtues to thrive while simultaneously displacing undesirable traits inherent to the DAC/amp pairings lesser headphones fail to reveal. The HD800 reveals problems with anything and everything upstream, including your recordings, that a headphone like my LCD-2 rev. 1, easily masks - by nature of its lower resolution, shelved highs, and excessively energetic bass - traits that conspire to _enable a_ greater number of recordings, DACs or amps to sound good - and _really_ good if the amp can deliver at least 1000mW into its 50-Ohm load.  *The HD800 will never mask anything that's wrong with upstream factors. *
  
 Thus, accepting that the problems lie not with the HD800 (with the exception of a 6kHz spike in its FR), but rather with your upstream gear, is the second hurdle. Relative to my LCD-2 rev.1, your LCD-3 has a lot more finesse, with improvements across just about every parameter, but it's still much more like an LCD-2 rev.1 than it is similar to an HD800, when it comes to _enabling_ or masking upstream problems.
  
 I'm a solid state die hard, but for a guy who likes tube gear (again looking at your profile), I think you might be all set in selecting an amp for the HD800 - with the Woo 234s.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  But I'm just guessing, really - having never heard it. I don't know what you're using as a DAC, but my HD800 journey took a huge jump in the right direction when I got the Metrum Octave MkII - a non-oversampling DAC that has done a lot to remove the digital harshness that I found so fatiguing when using any of my ESS9018 or ESS9023 (oversampling) DACs with the HD800.  Further improvements were made with using a low-feedback, single-ended Class A amp (the amazingly affordable NuForce HA-200).  I'm convinced that the HD800 is best served by non-oversampling DACs and by single-ended, Class A designs having low or zero negative feedback (not to mention by well-mastered recordings).
  
 I'm convinced (by the writings of Cees Ruijtenberg and Nelson Pass, primarily) that* the HD800's extreme resolution makes it less tolerant than most headphones of the complexity of distortions that can be heard in low level signals with amps that employ negative feedback.  I believe that's why so many tube amps (those having zero feedback) are successful with the HD800, where most solid state amps (those having lots of feedback) are not.  *And it's those low level signals (easily corrupted by negative feedback) that contain a wealth of "data" our brains can process to discern the original timbre of instruments, the faint trailing edges of their decays, the natural, low-energy echos and micro-details that define the recording space, etc. - precious factors that can lend a "naturalness" to the reproduction.

  


Spoiler: Additional reading on the advantages of low- or zero-feedback, single-ended, Class A amps...



Here's a Nelson Pass article I found on the use of negative feedback:
  
https://passlabs.com/articles/audio-distortion-and-feedback
  
 And here are some key excerpts:
  


> At one extreme, the position is that “feedback makes amplifiers perfect”. At the other extreme, “feedback is a menacing succubus that sucks the life out of the music, leaving a dried husk, devoid of soul”.


 
   
 Quote:


> We use negative feedback in audio amplifiers to stabilize the gain, increase the bandwidth, lower the output impedance and lower the non-linear distortion. It is the aspect of reducing the distortion which tends to generate the most controversy – negative feedback is very successful in lowering distortion to very tiny numbers as measured by distortion analyzers.


 
   
 Quote:


> But when two tones are passed through a non-linear device, the amplitude of each of the tones is altered, or modulated by the other tone. The result is a series of “sidebands”, additional tones occurring at the sum and difference of the original frequencies. These additional tones are not generally musically related.
> 
> *Worse, real music consists of very many tones passing through the nonlinear gain device, and each of these interacts with each of the others. The result will be very complex, and very unmusical.*


 
   
 Quote:


> Negative feedback is good at reducing all forms of distortion, linear and nonlinear. As a concept, it's pretty straight-forward: You create one of more gain stages in series in order to get enough gain to equal the final gain figure you want plus the amount of feedback you think you want to use.
> 
> As the feedback figure exceeds 20 dB or so, you find that all the measurements will improve by the amount of additional feedback. If the open loop distortion of the amplifier is 5%, then 60 dB of feedback should make it about .005%. It's relatively easy to construct additional stages or to milk existing stages for more open loop gain, so why not 80 dB for .0005%?
> 
> ...


 
   
 Quote:


> We have seen that nonlinear distortion becomes larger and more complex depending on the nonlinear characteristic of the stages, the number of cascaded stages, and the number of spectral elements in the music.
> 
> *Negative feedback can reduce the total quantity of distortion, but it adds new components on its own, and tempts the designer to use more cascaded gain stages in search of better numbers, accompanied by greater feedback frequency stability issues.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Also consider the following excerpt from a thesis by Dan Cheever, on the use of negative feedback in amplifier design:
  
   Quoting http://www.dancheever.com/main/cheever_thesis_final.pdf
  


> 1. Introduction
> 
> In September on 1995, Stereophile, an established highly respected hi-fi magazine, ran a review of the Cary 300SEI, the first mainstream review of a single ended amplifier. In this design, a single output device is tasked with producing both polarities of the signal swing and had zero negative feedback.
> 
> ...


  

 Anyone not familiar with Robert Harley [not "Hartley", as spelled in Dan Cheever's thesis] should know that he commands a lot of respect in the HiFi community. He's the author of _The Complete Guide to High End Audio _and writes reviews for _The Absolute Sound_.
  
  
 Here's another paper by Nelson Pass, this one on the merits of single-ended Class A amplifiers:
  
  Quoting:  https://passlabs.com/articles/single-ended-class-a
  


> *Regardless of the type of gain device, in systems where the utmost in natural reproduction is the goal, simple single-ended Class A circuits are the topologies of choice.*


 
  
  
 And lastly, a Nelson Pass write-up on his Zen amplifier, which is I believe is well emulated (for headphones) by the $350 NuForce HA-200 that I'm currently using with the HD800:
  
    Qutoing http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_zen_amp.pdf


> Simplicity is not the only reason for the use of the single-ended topology. *The characteristic of a single-ended gain stage is the most musically natural. Its asymmetry is similar to the compression / rarefaction characteristic of air, where for a given displacement slightly higher pressure is observed on a positive (compression) than on a negative (rarefaction). Air itself is observed to be a single-ended medium, where the pressure can become very high, but never go below 0. The harmonic distortion of such a medium is second harmonic, the least offensive variety.*
> 
> It is occasionally misunderstood that single-ended amplifiers intentionally distort the signal with second harmonic in order to achieve a falsely euphonious character. This is not true. Low distortion is still an important goal, and it is my observation that deliberate injection of second harmonic into a musical signal does not improve the quality of sound.
> 
> Single-ended amplification is distinct from push-pull designs in that there is only one gain device for each gain stage, and it carries the full signal alone. Linear singleended designs operate only in Class A.


 
  


  
 Mike


----------



## longbowbbs

zilch0md said:


> isquirrel said:
> 
> 
> > I need to revisit the HD800's when I demoed a pair with he Hugo they were new out of box and *sounded bright/thin*, how many hours do they need to settle down and produce their best, I have heard it can take a while?
> ...


 
 I would concur completely with Mike's position on the HD800. As an HD800 fan first, I have struggled getting into the Audeze's! Not there yet. The chain is everything with the HD800's too. Generally tubes can tame some of the high end challenges from bright or poor recordings. The DAC match is also very critical. I have spent time with every top HP (Abyss, every Audeze model including all Fazor, Beyer, HiFi Man,etc) and for me nothing has supplanted the HD800's as my primary choice.


----------



## RingingEars

longbowbbs said:


> The DAC match is also very critical.


 
 Agreed.
 I had a Parasound and then a Teac UD-501 recently. Both sounded incredible with the HD800 through a Decware CSP3. Excellent controlled, tight lows, clear highs, very detailed, good separation. Unfortunately both had issues(read defects) and had to be returned.
 Point is I am using a Fubar II Mk2 at the moment until my Geek pulse comes in. The Fubar is a good, inexpensive dac that has served me well for a few years, but the HD800 shows it's flaws with extreme prejudice. 
 After hearing what a good dac can do in combo with the HD800 it's so hard to go back to a budget dac. It just sounds flat and unrefined. It's going to be a long winter until the Pulse shows up.


----------



## dxanex

Has ColorWare ever done any promotions or sales on the HD 800 paint job for current owners?


----------



## frankrondaniel

ringingears said:


> Agreed.
> I had a Parasound and then a Teac UD-501 recently. Both sounded incredible with the HD800 through a Decware CSP3. Excellent controlled, tight lows, clear highs, very detailed, good separation. Unfortunately both had issues(read defects) and had to be returned.
> Point is I am using a Fubar II Mk2 at the moment until my Geek pulse comes in. The Fubar is a good, inexpensive dac that has served me well for a few years, but the HD800 shows it's flaws with extreme prejudice.
> After hearing what a good dac can do in combo with the HD800 it's so hard to go back to a budget dac. It just sounds flat and unrefined. It's going to be a long winter until the Pulse shows up.


 
  
 I'm waiting on a Pulse as well.  Hopefully it won't disappoint - especially with the HD800!


----------



## shabta

longbowbbs said:


> I would concur completely with Mike's position on the HD800. As an HD800 fan first, I have struggled getting into the Audeze's! Not there yet. The chain is everything with the HD800's too. Generally tubes can tame some of the high end challenges from bright or poor recordings. The DAC match is also very critical. I have spent time with every top HP (Abyss, every Audeze model including all Fazor, Beyer, HiFi Man,etc) and for me nothing has supplanted the HD800's as my primary choice.


 
  
 I wonder why people also don't mention the weight of the planars? I am unable to wear an Audeze or Hifiman for more than a half hour. If I do, I will have neck pain the rest of that day. Ok, so in my case I have a whiplash. But years of wearing those heavy headphones for hours a day has got to do something bad to your neck/spine. Whereas I can wear HD800s for 8 plus hours and never have any pain. My sensitive neck just unmasks what I am pretty sure will be a problem for long hour, over the long term listeners to planar dynamics. 
  
 And yes I find the overall sound of the HD800s combined with the soundstage totally fabulous. I resisted headphone listening for years has they often sounded too closed in relative to speakers.But with the HD800s, that was no longer an issue. And yes, the my wife sort of sealed the deal, when we left our huge california house and moved into our very modest sized southern french village townhouse.  She is grateful that most of my listening is through headphones nowadays.
  
 I do like the stax though but the amp thing bothers me a bit...


----------



## 62ohm

I think the Schiit Ragnarok can actually help dynamic/planar cans user with electrostatic cans. Get the Rag to drive dynamic/planars straight away, and plug an energiser to its speaker taps for the e-stats.


----------



## paradoxper

Energisers gimp Stax - not worth it. Go all in or just pass.


----------



## brat

Yesteray I sold my stax sr-007mk2 and I'm planning to reinvest the cash in some good dynamics. The best dynamic headphones I've heard so far are HD800. I don't like the tonal balance but it can be tuned by cables, amps or sources, not a big problem.
 I don't have much time to browse this forum or other internet sites, so my question is: Are there some indications or rumours abour new flagship sennheisers? I don't want to be surprised after the purchase by a thread about new HD1000 that surpass the 800s in every aspect...


----------



## isquirrel

zilch0md said:


> Having checked your profile, I have to say that even with hundreds of hours of burn-in, the HD800 will always sound bright and thin to anyone accustomed to the Audeze LCD-3 - all else being the same. In the end, you might have to drive the HD800 with a different amp and perhaps a different DAC, as well, to move its signature_ in the direction of_ the Audeze sound, but you'll never actually get there. That's OK, though. In my opinion, and I'm saying this as a huge fan (four years and counting) of the LCD-2 rev.1,* the HD800 brings so much to the table that you owe it to yourself to adapt to its signature.* And I'm confident I would offer the same encouragement if I were an LCD-3 owner.
> 
> So, accepting the fact that the HD800 will always sound like an HD800 is the first hurdle for an Audeze-conditioned listener, but in addition to some recommendations made here in this thread for DAC/amp pairings and/or mods that can degrade or mask some of the HD800's most distinguishing virtues, there are several recommendations of DAC/amp pairings that can supply the HD800 with a signal that allows its virtues to thrive while simultaneously displacing undesirable traits inherent to the DAC/amp pairings lesser headphones fail to reveal. The HD800 reveals problems with anything and everything upstream, including your recordings, that a headphone like my LCD-2 rev. 1, easily masks - by nature of its lower resolution, shelved highs, and excessively energetic bass - traits that conspire to _enable a_ greater number of recordings, DACs or amps to sound good - and _really_ good if the amp can deliver at least 1000mW into its 50-Ohm load.  *The HD800 will never mask anything that's wrong with upstream factors. *
> 
> ...


 
 Wow thanks Mike, a lot of information there. My DAC's are a Light Harmonic DaVinci Dual DAC (separate DSD & PCM DAC's) a Chord QBD 76 & a Hugo for portable use. 
  
 My system is very analog sounding, I tried the HD80's with the Studio Six and couldn't find a balance I liked, having said friends have said that the HD800 needs a lot of time on it to sound its best, no surprises there most equipment does.
  
 Its interesting to read your comments about single ended amps I tend to agree, my experiences with 300B's and the Woo's have been revelatory. I am going order a pair of the HD800's and give them a proper go. I heard whispers that Sennheiser were going to release a new top model, anyone have any news on this?
  
 Also of interest were your comment are modding the HD800's I see that people who's opinion I value like Currawong have modded theirs, is that a general comment as no mods work well? 
  
 Thanks for the taking the time to put your post together, appreciate it.


----------



## Sorrodje

@isquirrel : it seems many people mod their HD800 and as much people don't mod it ( we're speaking about Anax mod or variants) . Depends on music listened and owner tastes mostly   .
  
 About the Gear : find and read purrin's amps recommendations. it does maybe not cover all the market but it can give you a good idea for best amps.  In your price bracket : Eddie Current amps , DNA Stratus or Apex Teton seem to be the best contenders for the Ultimate HD800 amp title.  Ragnarok for SS amp. 
  
 The only rumors we heard was about a very limited Electrostat for the 70th anniversary.  No more news about any replacement of the HD800. and even if it was real , I wouldn't care so much. HD800 was born more that Five years ago and is the current Sennheiser flagship but older Senns are still very appreciated and still provide Hi-end sound for mid-fi price.


----------



## magiccabbage

I had to post this up here. This album is amazing on HD800's and one of the best female vocal albums I have ever heard, a real must have!
 It really is brilliant and the production is next to none! 
 The playing is top notch as well. I'm loving it right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Some of the vocalists - *Esperanza Spalding - Dee Dee Bridgewater - Nona Hendrix - Dianne Reeves - Casandra Wilson - Carmen Lundy - Gretchen Parlato*


----------



## Sorrodje

ah ah ah I've listened This album a few minutes ago  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
  
 I'm listening to that Currently :
  

  
  
 The HD800 renders this music sooooo well too.


----------



## zilch0md

isquirrel said:


> Wow thanks Mike, a lot of information there. My DAC's are a Light Harmonic DaVinci Dual DAC (separate DSD & PCM DAC's) a Chord QBD 76 & a Hugo for portable use.
> 
> My system is very analog sounding, I tried the HD80's with the Studio Six and couldn't find a balance I liked, having said friends have said that the HD800 needs a lot of time on it to sound its best, no surprises there most equipment does.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're welcome!  It seems you're set for DACs, too!  
  
 I should have mentioned that I am using pretty much the same HD800 mod Currawong is using.
  

  
 Here's a post where I describe how to do it:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/14535#post_10957399
  
 I've only heard a few rumors on this thread regarding a replacement for the HD800 - nothing substantial.
  
 I'm glad you're going to give the HD800 another shot.
  




  
 Mike


----------



## lin0003

I head there is an electrostatic successor but will be priced t around 5-6K. Hard to imagine substantial improvement over the HD800 to make me want to buy them though. 
  
 Heard the 009 and it is good, but I don't feel any need to "upgrade".


----------



## magiccabbage

sorrodje said:


> ah ah ah I've listened This album a few minutes ago
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 gonna give it a go now


----------



## RingingEars

sorrodje said:


> ah ah ah I've listened This album a few minutes ago
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for posting this Sorrodje. I'll have to give it a listen tonight.
 I was listening to some Eva Cassidy on spotify last night and was in awe. Her voice touches right into your marrow. It will bring you to tears


----------



## longbowbbs

frankrondaniel said:


> ringingears said:
> 
> 
> > Agreed.
> ...


 
 I was very pleased with the Pulse and the HD800's. I thought they made a great combo...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/lhlabs-geek-pulse/reviews/11967


----------



## Sorrodje

ringingears said:


> Thanks for posting this Sorrodje. I'll have to give it a listen tonight.
> I was listening to some Eva Cassidy on spotify last night and was in awe. Her voice touches right into your marrow. It will bring you to tears


 
  
 Try this one too : it's maybe even better :  James Blake - Overgrown :
  

  
 And Taylor Mc Ferrin - Early Riser :


----------



## kazsud

sorrodje said:


> Try this one too : it's maybe even better :  James Blake - Overgrown :
> 
> +1
> 
> ...


----------



## RingingEars

sorrodje said:


> Try this one too : it's maybe even better :  James Blake - Overgrown :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Listening now. man Overgrown has some really good low end


----------



## frankrondaniel

longbowbbs said:


> I was very pleased with the Pulse and the HD800's. I thought they made a great combo...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/lhlabs-geek-pulse/reviews/11967


 
  
 Yeah - saw your review! It left me very hopeful!


----------



## RUMAY408

From the high end HP's I have personally owned or had a chance to listen over several hours with different sources amps and DAC's
  
 HD800>HE-6>LCD-2.2>LCD-X>LCD-2>T1>PS1000>HE-560 mod>Denon AH-7000>Fostex TH-900>HE-560>HD650>HE-500>HE-400>GS1000>HD595>PS500


----------



## magiccabbage

rumay408 said:


> From the high end HP's I have personally owned or had a chance to listen over several hours with different sources amps and DAC's
> 
> HD800>HE-6>LCD-2.2>LCD-X>LCD-2>T1>PS1000>HE-560 mod>Denon AH-7000>Fostex TH-900>HE-560>HD650>HE-500>HE-400>GS1000>HD595>PS500


 
 Is that the order of preference ?


----------



## longbowbbs

rumay408 said:


> From the high end HP's I have personally owned or had a chance to listen over several hours with different sources amps and DAC's
> 
> HD800>HE-6>LCD-2.2>LCD-X>LCD-2>T1>PS1000>HE-560 mod>Denon AH-7000>Fostex TH-900>HE-560>HD650>HE-500>HE-400>GS1000>HD595>PS500


 
 I am curious what you would think of the Mr. Speakers Alpha Prime's. They may be my favorite Planers....


----------



## 62ohm

rumay408 said:


> From the high end HP's I have personally owned or had a chance to listen over several hours with different sources amps and DAC's
> 
> HD800>HE-6>LCD-2.2>LCD-X>LCD-2>T1>PS1000>HE-560 mod>Denon AH-7000>Fostex TH-900>HE-560>HD650>HE-500>HE-400>GS1000>HD595>PS500


 
  
 May I ask why do you chose the HD650 as your complementary cans instead of one of the Audezes? I'm currently considering trading my K812 for the LCD-2, so any insight you can give would be really helpful.


----------



## dynarec

Hi there, I bought my Sennheiser HD800s about a week ago and up till now everything was fine, but the last day or so the bass has started to distort and buzz/fuzz when it hits certain lower frequencies.   Do you think I could return the product under warranty for repair?  It's making certain tracks I listen to unlistenable.  Is bass distortion covered under warranty?  I'm sorely dissapointed seeing as I've ownly owned them for 1 week.  Any advice appreciated, thank you.  I'm worried that the driver has blown.


----------



## xaval

dynarec said:


> Hi there, I bought my Sennheiser HD800s about a week ago and up till now everything was fine, but the last day or so the bass has started to distort and buzz/fuzz when it hits certain lower frequencies.   Do you think I could return the product under warranty for repair?  It's making certain tracks I listen to unlistenable.  Is bass distortion covered under warranty?  I'm sorely dissapointed seeing as I've ownly owned them for 1 week.  Any advice appreciated, thank you.  I'm worried that the driver has blown.


 
 What is the rest of your setup? What audio format is the music you listen to?
  
 A very revealing headphone like this could elicit "problems" in the sound chain you weren't aware before. 
  
 Of course, there could actually be an issue with the headphones, but you should try to make sure if it's not something else upstream.


----------



## 62ohm

dynarec said:


> Hi there, I bought my Sennheiser HD800s about a week ago and up till now everything was fine, but the last day or so the bass has started to distort and buzz/fuzz when it hits certain lower frequencies.   Do you think I could return the product under warranty for repair?  It's making certain tracks I listen to unlistenable.  Is bass distortion covered under warranty?  I'm sorely dissapointed seeing as I've ownly owned them for 1 week.  Any advice appreciated, thank you.  I'm worried that the driver has blown.


 
  
 Are you using a tube amp? It could be your tubes starting to manifest some microphonics.


----------



## preproman

rumay408 said:


> From the high end HP's I have personally owned or had a chance to listen over several hours with different sources amps and DAC's
> 
> HD800>HE-6>LCD-2.2>LCD-X>LCD-2>T1>PS1000>HE-560 mod>Denon AH-7000>Fostex TH-900>HE-560>HD650>HE-500>HE-400>GS1000>HD595>PS500


 
  
 No e-stats?


----------



## dynarec

xaval said:


> What is the rest of your setup? What audio format is the music you listen to?
> 
> A very revealing headphone like this could elicit "problems" in the sound chain you weren't aware before.
> 
> Of course, there could actually be an issue with the headphones, but you should try to make sure if it's not something else upstream.


 
 I'm running a Matrix M-Stage solid state amp using lossless FLAC files.  3 or 4 days ago I was playing certain tracks without the bass distortion I am now getting.
  
  


62ohm said:


> Are you using a tube amp? It could be your tubes starting to manifest some microphonics.


 
  
  
 I plan on upgrading to tubes eventually, but currently all I use is solid state amps.
  
 Thanks for your quick response.


----------



## xaval

@dynarec what is your DAC btw? The Matrix is a good head amp for the Senn and shouldn't be the issue assuming it's working properly. 
  
 Have you tried unplugging the cables? Maybe one of the connectors is not properly seated?


----------



## xaval

Or have you managed to remove the pads and take a look inside the cups?
  
 I've had the issue you're talking about with my K501 that I bought NOS. It went away with burn in. It has more severe with the left cup... but it went away within the first week of use. I left them playing music non stop for a few days. It's all good now!


----------



## xaval

sorrodje said:


> Try this one too : it's maybe even better :  James Blake - Overgrown :


 
 Thanks for this one by the way. It also sounds great with other cans


----------



## hekeli

dynarec said:


> Hi there, I bought my Sennheiser HD800s about a week ago and up till now everything was fine, but the last day or so the bass has started to distort and buzz/fuzz when it hits certain lower frequencies.   Do you think I could return the product under warranty for repair?  It's making certain tracks I listen to unlistenable.  Is bass distortion covered under warranty?  I'm sorely dissapointed seeing as I've ownly owned them for 1 week.  Any advice appreciated, thank you.  I'm worried that the driver has blown.


 
  
 Play some sines and check the actual frequencies. Does it get louder the lower you go? Is it a constant rattle or irregular buzz? Could simply be a hair that's entered the driver..
  
 http://onlinetonegenerator.com/subwoofer.html


----------



## dynarec

xaval said:


> @dynarec what is your DAC btw? The Matrix is a good head amp for the Senn and shouldn't be the issue assuming it's working properly.
> 
> Have you tried unplugging the cables? Maybe one of the connectors is not properly seated?


 
 I've tried what you suggested by unplugging the cables and it's the same result unfortunately.
 My DAC is  a Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 external sound card.  Works fine to the best of my knowledge.


----------



## dynarec

xaval said:


> Or have you managed to remove the pads and take a look inside the cups?
> 
> I've had the issue you're talking about with my K501 that I bought NOS. It went away with burn in. It has more severe with the left cup... but it went away within the first week of use. I left them playing music non stop for a few days. It's all good now!


 
 I might try this thanks xaval.  Maybe its a hair on the driver or something I don't know.


hekeli said:


> Play some sines and check the actual frequencies. Does it get louder the lower you go? Is it a constant rattle or irregular buzz? Could simply be a hair that's entered the driver..
> 
> http://onlinetonegenerator.com/subwoofer.html


 
 thanks for the link hekeli, its more like a constant rattle and fuzzy boomy tone everytime a certain bassline or bass kick starts up.  As stated earlier it wasnt a problem on certain tracks a couple of days ago but now it is a problem on the same tracks.


----------



## bearFNF

I would also try a different source with same tracks if you can.  If it turns out to be the headphones then you can look into options for getting them replaced or warrantied.
  
 Do you have the ability to just take them back to where you got them and exchange for a new set?  Would be faster than a warranty claim and the dealer would be the one dealing with Sennheiser (less hassle for you) and you would have a new set in the mean time.


----------



## dynarec

bearfnf said:


> I would also try a different source with same tracks if you can.  If it turns out to be the headphones then you can look into options for getting them replaced or warrantied.
> 
> Do you have the ability to just take them back to where you got them and exchange for a new set?  Would be faster than a warranty claim and the dealer would be the one dealing with Sennheiser (less hassle for you) and you would have a new set in the mean time.


 
 Thanks for advice bearFNF, I will try from a different source and if that doesn't fix the problem I will have to think about warranty/returning options.   I bought them online at Hifigear UK, who are based in Heresford, which is miles away from where I am .  A courier service could be an option though.
 I'd just like to thank all you people for trying to help me out, I really appreciate it .  Love this site.


----------



## Clsmooth391

.


----------



## ubs28

isquirrel said:


> I need to revisit the HD800's when I demoed a pair with he Hugo they were new out of box and sounded bright/thin, how many hours do they need to settle down and produce their best, I have heard it can take a while?


 

 It can take a while to burn-in. I don't think the HD800 sounds bright or thin in comparison to other studio / reference headphones. Some studio headphones are even brighter than the HD800. But if you like a dark / warm sound, the "bright & thinness" goes away if you dial in some bass with an EQ.


----------



## namaiki

dynarec said:


> I might try this thanks xaval.  Maybe its a hair on the driver or something I don't know.
> thanks for the link hekeli, its more like a constant rattle and fuzzy boomy tone everytime a certain bassline or bass kick starts up.  As stated earlier it wasnt a problem on certain tracks a couple of days ago but now it is a problem on the same tracks.


 
 Is the distortion from both sides or just either the left or right? Are you using any EQ?


----------



## dynarec

namaiki said:


> Is the distortion from both sides or just either the left or right? Are you using any EQ?


 
 Hi there namaiki.   I'm not currently using any EQ and the sound seems to be distorted only from the left headphone.  I've made a warranty claim with Sennheiser, so hopefully they can have a look at them and amend/fix the problem.


----------



## Sorrodje

xaval said:


> Thanks for this one by the way. It also sounds great with other cans


 
  
 I've no doubt it sound well with other cans . I can only affirm the HD800 is extremely good for this music.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

How well does the Schiit combo Gungnir and Mjolnir work with the HD800? Balanced cables, of course.


----------



## preproman

birdmanofct said:


> How well does the Schiit combo Gungnir and Mjolnir work with the HD800? Balanced cables, of course.


 

 Not the best by far..


----------



## James-uk

birdmanofct said:


> How well does the Schiit combo Gungnir and Mjolnir work with the HD800? Balanced cables, of course.




HD800 is easy to drive and that combo should be fine. I have personal experience with HDVD800/ O2 /odac/ benchmark dac1 and they all sound the same . Take from that what you will.


----------



## lin0003

james-uk said:


> HD800 is easy to drive and that combo should be fine. I have personal experience with HDVD800/ O2 /odac/ benchmark dac1 and they all sound the same . Take from that what you will.


 
 Most people hear a distinct difference between DAC/amp changes. 
  
 Haven't heard of the Schiit combo so can't comment on that.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Can someone post his impression of the HD800 driven by the Chord Hugo, please?

 Thanks.


----------



## 62ohm

james-uk said:


> HD800 is easy to drive and that combo should be fine. I have personal experience with HDVD800/ O2 /odac/ benchmark dac1 and they all sound the same . Take from that what you will.


 
  
 My experience with the HDVA600/Benchmark DAC1 would suggest they do not sound the same..


----------



## James-uk

62ohm said:


> My experience with the HDVA600/Benchmark DAC1 would suggest they do not sound the same..



I know what you are implying, the benchmark has less distortion bla bla bla but the hdvd sounds the same regardless. Maybe the Senn amp has a little more low end distortion but its negligible .


----------



## lin0003

james-uk said:


> I know what you are implying, the benchmark has less distortion bla bla bla but the hdvd sounds the same regardless. Maybe the Senn amp has a little more low end distortion but its negligible .


 
 Actually no, it's not distortion and all that stuff that is different. 
  
 I would say 99% of people who are familiar with the HD800 would say that the HDVD800 or some other high end DAC and amp is much better than the O2/ODAC. 
  
 Soundstage, detail, imaging and everything will be better. 
  
 I do envy you though, because you don't need to upgrade gear since you can't perceive any difference.


----------



## 62ohm

lin0003 said:


> I do envy you though, because you don't need to upgrade gear since you can't perceive any difference.


 
  
 +1.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

lin0003 said:


> I do envy you though, because you don't need to upgrade gear since you can't perceive any difference.


 
  
 +2


----------



## lukeap69

+3


----------



## BobG55

+4 & +5 (5 is my wallet)


----------



## RingingEars

lin0003 said:


> I do envy you though, because you don't need to upgrade gear since you can't perceive any difference.


 
  
  


62ohm said:


> +1.


 
  
  


birdmanofct said:


> +2


 
  
  


lukeap69 said:


> +3


 
  
  


bobg55 said:


> +4 & +5 (5 is my wallet)


 
 Yep. There was a distinct difference between my CSP3 and Teac ud-501.


----------



## verber

sp3llv3xit said:


> Can someone post his impression of the HD800 driven by the Chord Hugo, please?
> 
> Thanks.


 

 Short summary... nice, but very pricy.  Longer... posted some observations on the chord hugo forum.  If you search for HD800 on the chord hugo thread, or for hugo on this thread you will find numerous posts.
  
 --Mark


----------



## sp3llv3xit

verber said:


> Short summary... nice, but very pricy.  Longer... posted some observations on the chord hugo forum.  If you search for HD800 on the chord hugo thread, or for hugo on this thread you will find numerous posts.
> 
> --Mark


 


 Thanks, Mark!  

 GSX mkII.  That's on my upgrade path as well.  


 Looks like I won't be using the HD800 with the Chord Hugo.  Nevertheless, I'll be trying out that pairing this week.


----------



## Mortalcoil

dynarec said:


> Hi there, I bought my Sennheiser HD800s about a week ago and up till now everything was fine, but the last day or so the bass has started to distort and buzz/fuzz when it hits certain lower frequencies.   Do you think I could return the product under warranty for repair?  It's making certain tracks I listen to unlistenable.  Is bass distortion covered under warranty?  I'm sorely dissapointed seeing as I've ownly owned them for 1 week.  Any advice appreciated, thank you.  I'm worried that the driver has blown.


 

  My suggestion to you would be to make haste before to much time passes and demand a new replacement pair from the retailer (assuming you bought them new and from a retail environment).
  
 Don't let to much time pass you need to act quickly otherwise the retailer may opt to blame you for the damage, thus trying to weasel out of honoring any form of proper customer service.....leaving you to wait for 4 weeks while Sennheiser repairs your HD-800.
  
 At only a week old let the retailer sort it out with Sennheiser while you enjoy your new pair (that they have supplied you with).  Don't settle for anything less than a replacement BNIB pair.
  
 Good luck hope you get it taken care of.


----------



## punit

birdmanofct said:


> How well does the Schiit combo Gungnir and Mjolnir work with the HD800? Balanced cables, of course.


 
  
  


preproman said:


> Not the best by far..


 

 +1. Only tried the Mj with a Yulong DAC (haven't hear the Gung). I just tried it for a couple of mins & couldn't be bothered to listen more as it didn't sound that great .If you want a more detailed description can try them together again.Initially I was going to mention it sounded horrible, but then I was comparing them to the sound of HD800 from My custom  Glenn OTL & Cavali Liquid Glass. It might sound bearable to you depending on your taste & what amp you are coming from.


----------



## kothganesh

One more naysayer to the G/M combo for the HD 800. In general, the SQ sounds a bit strident at times. I have not heard the Ragnarok but I've read that as a SS amp, it drives the 800 very well but talk to others that do. In general my tube amp tend to do better with the 800 with the Zana Deux the best among my lot. The Vali performs very capably. Try the Anax mod as well.


----------



## johnjen

As my sig line indicates I have a Mojo amp being driven by a PWD mkII into my modified 800's.
  
 And I just acquired The Rok (which I'm listening to right now).
  
 The Rok will take more hrs. but thus far it is somewhat better than my modded Mojo amp.
  
 Which suggests to me that when I apply the same mods to The Rok, it should leap ahead.
  
 But the pairing of my modded 800's to these amps is actually quite enthralling.
  
 Just a single indication of these pairings can be hinted at by these specs…
 Mojo's power bandwidth is 2Hz-400KHz
 The Rok's power bandwidth is 2Hz-180KHz 
 HD-800 freq response is 5Hz - 50KHz  
  
 JJ


----------



## Sorrodje

sp3llv3xit said:


> Can someone post his impression of the HD800 driven by the Chord Hugo, please?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 I've received a Hugo for testing purpose last saturday. Tried yesterday as a dac/amp. The worst point is the soundstage with an obvious lack of center/focus and a serious lack of depth. Very Left/Right.  Overally a bit lean sound with treble glare too. Bass department seems OK to my ears though.  I wouldn't advice the Hugo as a good dac/amp for HD800.
  
 Didn't tried the Hugo as a standalone DAC associated with the LP G103 or my Sonett 2 yet. Will compare it to my Metrum Octave mkI and My Beresford Caïman mkII.


----------



## lin0003

If anyone is interested I am selling a pure copper Wireworld HD800 cable. 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/743545/fs-wireworld-eclipse-6-pure-copper-hd800-cable


----------



## preproman

johnjen said:


> As my sig line indicates I have a Mojo amp being driven by a PWD mkII into my modified 800's.
> 
> And I just acquired The Rok (which I'm listening to right now).
> 
> ...


 

 What kind of mods did you do to your Mojo and PWD mkII?


----------



## sp3llv3xit

sorrodje said:


> I've received a Hugo for testing purpose last saturday. Tried yesterday as a dac/amp. The worst point is the soundstage with an obvious lack of center/focus and a serious lack of depth. Very Left/Right.  Overally a bit lean sound with treble glare too. Bass department seems OK to my ears though.  I wouldn't advice the Hugo as a good dac/amp for HD800.
> 
> Didn't tried the Hugo as a standalone DAC associated with the LP G103 or my Sonett 2 yet. Will compare it to my Metrum Octave mkI and My Beresford Caïman mkII.





Thank you, Sorrodje.


----------



## johnjen

Rather simple ones.
  
 Changed out the fuses and added WA-Q chips to the new fuses (Synergistic Quantum fuses).
  
 The beauty part is the chips are $7.50 each (and are returnable if undamaged) and the fuses can also be returned if they don't help.
  
 So it’s a 'fairly' cheap experiment to see if these help at all, or not.
  
 For me, in my system, the difference was immediate, obvious, and only improved with time.
  
  
 JJ
  
 Quote:


preproman said:


> What kind of mods did you do to your Mojo and PWD mkII?


----------



## preproman

johnjen said:


> Rather simple ones.
> 
> Changed out the fuses and added WA-Q chips to the new fuses (Synergistic Quantum fuses).
> 
> ...


----------



## magiccabbage

sp3llv3xit said:


> Can someone post his impression of the HD800 driven by the Chord Hugo, please?
> 
> Thanks.


 
 I had the Chord Hugo/HD800 combo for over a month. I loved it and wrote a review which you can find in my sig. 
 The HD800's sounded excellent with the Hugo. The detail was better than anything I had heard before. 


sorrodje said:


> I've received a Hugo for testing purpose last saturday. Tried yesterday as a dac/amp. The worst point is the soundstage with an obvious lack of center/focus and a serious lack of depth. Very Left/Right.  Overally a bit lean sound with treble glare too. Bass department seems OK to my ears though.  I wouldn't advice the Hugo as a good dac/amp for HD800.
> 
> Didn't tried the Hugo as a standalone DAC associated with the LP G103 or my Sonett 2 yet. Will compare it to my Metrum Octave mkI and My Beresford Caïman mkII.


 
 I really liked it. Didnt find the treble a problem apart from a few tracks.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

magiccabbage said:


> I had the Chord Hugo/HD800 combo for over a month. I loved it and wrote a review which you can find in my sig.
> The HD800's sounded excellent with the Hugo. The detail was better than anything I had heard before.
> I really liked it. Didnt find the treble a problem apart from a few tracks.





Thank you, sir. Hugo + HD800 seems to be a tandem that engenders love or hate. There seems to be no middle ground.

Shall I draw from this a conjectural proposition that people who have respectable home rigs are those that do not, in general, like the HD800 driven by the Chord Hugo?

Oh, I shall hear for myself tomorrow this pairing. I have borrowed my uncle's HD800.


----------



## magiccabbage

sp3llv3xit said:


> Thank you, sir. Hugo + HD800 seems to be a tandem that engenders love or hate. There seems to be no middle ground.
> 
> Shall I draw from this a conjectural proposition that people who have respectable home rigs are those that do not, in general, like the HD800 driven by the Chord Hugo?
> 
> Oh, I shall hear for myself tomorrow this pairing. I have borrowed my uncle's HD800.


 
 Maybe, my current rig is not as good as some others but I did hear the NAD and though that the Hugo was more revealing.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

People with the GSX mkIII, the Hugo is a letdown.

That, of course, is to be expected.

Thank you, kind sirs, for your replies.


----------



## Sorrodje

magiccabbage said:


> Maybe, my current rig is not as good as some others but I did hear the NAD and though that the Hugo was more revealing.


 
  
@magiccabbage : You compared the NAD M51 and the Hugo ? both as standalone DAC I guess ?


----------



## magiccabbage

sorrodje said:


> @magiccabbage : You compared the NAD M51 and the Hugo ? both as standalone DAC I guess ?


 
 Yea I did. I wasn't really impressed by the NAD. I found it hard to tell differences between it budget DAC's whereas with the Hugo the difference was obvious from the get go. 
 I had heard before that the NAd needs to be used in balanced mode - I used it single ended with my WA2. Also I didn't have the hugo and NAD side by side. 
  
 Besides the Hugo the NAD is the only high end DAC that I have heard though. All of the other DACs besides the NAD cost less than 1500.


----------



## Frank I

magiccabbage said:


> I had the Chord Hugo/HD800 combo for over a month. I loved it and wrote a review which you can find in my sig.
> The HD800's sounded excellent with the Hugo. The detail was better than anything I had heard before.
> I really liked it. Didnt find the treble a problem apart from a few tracks.


 
 I agree with Paddy. I use the Hugo frequently as both a stand alone unit with headphones  also with amplifiers and find the best I have dear in a dac with correct non difgital  sound with good detail.The HD 800 is one fo the veyr best combos I have heard  with the Hugo. The amazing thing was we were able to drive three headphones the  lcd x,hd 800 and  Oppo PM-1 at the same time in Rahway when we were doing a meeting and it was at concert hall levels . Amazing feat for any amp. This unit has logged on plenty of hours  for me. or me it travel on road trips with  my headphones and uses two music sources the Macbook and my AK240 and I dot n lose much from my home system. I a, looking forward to hearing the new Chord dacs  at CES.


----------



## Sorrodje

Different ears, different tastes maybe ?
  
 Dunno about other headphones ( I will have more information later when we'll test the Chord with some other cans) but for the HD800, the  result is not good at all to my ears. the HD800 sounds like every time I heard it bad amped : unnatural and weird (lack of focus/center, too wide and not enough depth) soundstage and etch in the treble. Its not subtle to my ears .
  
 I'll gave more impressions about Hugo as a Standalone DAC later but as a DAC/AMP, and If a friend asked me about hugo/HD800 pairing, I wouldnt advice it for sure.  And for someone who heard the HD800 from a Hugo and didn't like it, I'd wholeheartly advice him to give another Chance to the HD800 from another amp.
 IMO, YMMV .. Don't want to offense Hugo owners


----------



## zilch0md

Hi Sorrodje,
  


sorrodje said:


> I've received a Hugo for testing purpose last saturday. Tried yesterday as a dac/amp. The worst point is the soundstage with an obvious lack of center/focus and a serious lack of depth. Very Left/Right.  *Overall a bit lean sound with treble glare too*. Bass department seems OK to my ears though.  I wouldn't advice the Hugo as a good dac/amp for HD800.
> 
> Didn't tried the Hugo as a standalone DAC associated with the LP G103 or my Sonett 2 yet. Will compare it to my Metrum Octave mkI and My Beresford Caïman mkII.


 
  
 I've been waiting for someone like you (someone who I perceive as having a nearly "ideal" chain for the HD800), to post impressions on the Hugo > HD800.  
  
 I can now remove the Hugo from my list of high-end candidates for the HD800.  Thank you!
  
 Your experience (and contentment) with the Metrum Octave MkI and DNA Sonnet 2 gives you a lot of credibility in my book, when comparing the HD800 with other gear.
  
 I honestly believe that many HD800 owners have never heard what it can do. If they are content, I would still argue that they may be content in ignorance of a better experience. Adaptive hedonism has not yet taken them as far as they could go with the HD800.
  
 I enjoyed a twenty-minute glimpse into what is possible with the HD800 at a Head-Fi meet, with jazzerdave's Cavalli Liquid Glass setup, and I know that I am currently equipped to achieve only a distant approximation of that experience, but my relatively modest NOS Octave MkII and single-ended, low-feedback, Class A NuForce HA-200 setup is much, much closer to what you and jazzerdave have, than what I hear with any oversampling DAC or mutli-stage, high-feedback, push-pull, solid state amp (like the OPPO HA-1, with its excellent for LCD-2 and PM-1, ESS9018 and 1817mW into 50-Ohm balanced amp.)
  
 Mike


----------



## Sorrodje

@zilch0md: You can consider me honored of such a trust but I need to precise I'm not so experienced or so trustable. Only personal Experience matters.


----------



## dynarec

Update on my problem with bass distortion.  It has been fixed!!! Turns out it was a problem with winamp (I had a bass enhancer plugin enabled which was distorting the signal) , I changed and tried some tracks with foobar2000 and no bass distortion!!! Phew, thank god I don't have to go through the rigmarole of a warranty claim now.  Once again, thanks for all your support.  Back to enjoying my HD800s..


----------



## RingingEars

dynarec said:


> Update on my problem with bass distortion.  It has been fixed!!! Turns out it was a problem with winamp (I had a bass enhancer plugin enabled which was distorting the signal) , I changed and tried some tracks with foobar2000 and no bass distortion!!! Phew, thank god I don't have to go through the rigmarole of a warranty claim now.  Once again, thanks for all your support.  Back to enjoying my HD800s..


 
 Nice. Glad is was easily sorted. Enjoy


----------



## frankrondaniel

sorrodje said:


> I've received a Hugo for testing purpose last saturday. Tried yesterday as a dac/amp. The worst point is the soundstage with an obvious lack of center/focus and a serious lack of depth. Very Left/Right.  Overally a bit lean sound with treble glare too. Bass department seems OK to my ears though.  I wouldn't advice the Hugo as a good dac/amp for HD800.
> 
> Didn't tried the Hugo as a standalone DAC associated with the LP G103 or my Sonett 2 yet. Will compare it to my Metrum Octave mkI and My Beresford Caïman mkII.


 
  
 I'm not very good at describing my impression of audio gear, but I think it's safe to say that your impressions of the Hugo/HD800 pairing mirror my experience, both as a stand-alone DAC/AMP and feeding it into my Fosgate Signature Headphone Amp or the Schiit Valhalla2.  This is feeding the Hugo using my USB from my laptop running JRiver, coax out of DX90 and X3 and optical out of AK240.  I understand that I'm definitely in the minority in my experience of the Hugo but after having it for approximately 6 months now I can't say that I'm enjoying it's sound.


----------



## ivanlyf

Hi everyone,

 As mentioned previously, I'm a new Sennheiser HD800 owner and am currently driving it with a 2nd hand ifi iCan v2 to drive the headphones (for now) until I save enough to buy the Sennheiser HDVA 600 maybe end of next year.

 However, the iCan v2 is having a ground loop issue - at medium/high gain or without music, it's acting as a radio antenna. I can hear my local radio station on the iCan. I'm quite irritated with the distortion and so am toying with the idea of getting a new headphone amp to replace it.

 Any suggestions for a temporary <350 dollar headphone amp?

 My setup:

 Software: J River MC20 -> AIFF @ 16/44 upsampled to 192 via DAC
 Power conditioning: Isotek Evo 3 Power Conditioners and cable
 DAC and cable: Cardas Clear USB cable, DIY XLR Cables and Mytek Stereo192-DSD DAC
 Headphone and Amplification: Sennheiser HD800, iCan v2

 My musical preference:

 Genre: Classical music and Jazz (80:20 ratio)
 Preferred signature: 

 #1 Revealing
 #2 Flat signature but some emphasis on mids and treble is good
 #3 Accurate stereo imaging (not a problem for the HD800)

 Thank you!
 Ivan


----------



## bearFNF

Schiit Vali...$119


----------



## Chodi

Matrix M Stage is an obvious choice and a surprisingly good match with the HD800. Do check into the M Stage thread and consider changing out the opamps. I actually used this combination at one time and it was very enjoyable.


----------



## ivanlyf

chodi said:


> Matrix M Stage is an obvious choice and a surprisingly good match with the HD800. Do check into the M Stage thread and consider changing out the opamps. I actually used this combination at one time and it was very enjoyable.


 
  
 Yeah, was thinking of an amplifier based on the Lehmann BCL. Since this was the recommended amp before the HDVA-600 came out...
  
 How about the Schiit Asgard 2 or just buy a new iCan v2 and hope it doesn't have ground issues heh


----------



## akhyar

ivanlyf said:


> Yeah, was thinking of an amplifier based on the Lehmann BCL. Since this was the recommended amp before the HDVA-600 came out...
> 
> How about the Schiit Asgard 2 or just buy a new iCan v2 and hope it doesn't have ground issues heh


 
  
 Bring your HD800 to E1 Audio at Orchard Rd and try it with the Schiit Vali or Asgard 2.
  
 Truth be told, I had the iCan v2 for a couple of months driving the HD800 and I wasn't a fan of the pairing.
 Too harsh, bright and brittle sounding, and that was with the X-bass activated.


----------



## ivanlyf

akhyar said:


> Bring your HD800 to E1 Audio at Orchard Rd and try it with the Schiit Vali or Asgard 2.
> 
> Truth be told, I had the iCan v2 for a couple of months driving the HD800 and I wasn't a fan of the pairing.
> Too harsh, bright and brittle sounding, and that was with the X-bass activated.


 
  
 Need to bring down DAC, computer and CDs??
  
 I am always lazy with auditioning aha


----------



## peelwonder

Just got a pair of HD 800's to go with my LCD X's and all I can say is wow...using a Ragnarok to drive them with balanced cables is sonic bliss...


----------



## Dopaminer

peelwonder said:


> Just got a pair of HD 800's to go with my LCD X's and all I can say is wow...using a Ragnarok to drive them with balanced cables is sonic bliss...


 
  
 Congrats and enjoy !
  
 I can assure you it will never grow old . .


----------



## akhyar

ivanlyf said:


> Need to bring down DAC, computer and CDs??
> 
> I am always lazy with auditioning aha


 
  
 Up to you actually.
 Or you can always use their DAP and music selection.
  
 The reason I asked you to bring your HD800 is because they don't carry Sennheiser products


----------



## ivanlyf

akhyar said:


> Up to you actually.
> Or you can always use their DAP and music selection.
> 
> The reason I asked you to bring your HD800 is because they don't carry Sennheiser products


 
  
 Okay can.
  
 Thanks for the tips.
  
 Will probably bring down the headphones, my iPod, the iCan and a few CDs when I'm ready


----------



## Mortalcoil

dynarec said:


> Update on my problem with bass distortion.  It has been fixed!!! Turns out it was a problem with winamp (I had a bass enhancer plugin enabled which was distorting the signal) , I changed and tried some tracks with foobar2000 and no bass distortion!!! Phew, thank god I don't have to go through the rigmarole of a warranty claim now.  Once again, thanks for all your support.  Back to enjoying my HD800s..


 

  lol well its a good thing you read my earlier post then.


----------



## Priidik

ivanlyf said:


> Preferred signature:
> 
> #1 Revealing
> #2 Flat signature but some emphasis on mids and treble is good
> #3 Accurate stereo imaging (not a problem for the HD800)


 
 - Schiit Valhalla2 seems like obvious recommendation.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

I like it.  Not the best that I've heard the HD800 sound but it is quite impressive driven by a portable dac/amp.


----------



## peelwonder

Just an update...4 hour listening session with the Ragnarok and 2 thumbs highly up....can't recommend this combo enough...


----------



## ivanlyf

priidik said:


> - Schiit Valhalla2 seems like obvious recommendation.


 
  
 Sorry my friend
  
 I don't really like tubes - find tubes add a bit too much color to the classical music.
  
 Have tried 3 different tube amps including Audionote and Line Magnetic with speakers and headphones - still don't like the tube sound even if it comes from a respected brand like Audionote UK
  
 Disclaimer: If possible, please let me know which genre of music you listen to so that I can understand the context of your recommendations


----------



## kensonic

peelwonder said:


> Just an update...4 hour listening session with the Ragnarok and 2 thumbs highly up....can't recommend this combo enough...



.
Did you compare the Ragnarok to other amps ?


----------



## Priidik

ivanlyf said:


> Sorry my friend
> 
> I don't really like tubes - find tubes add a bit too much color to the classical music.
> 
> ...


 
 I was considering classical/orchestral as your preference.
 I haven't actually heard the Schiit amp, but for 350$ and what has been said about it, i wouldn't hesitate to buy one for myself, if i haven't got the HDVA600 already. From what i have read, the Valhalla 2 is ~nearly as good as the HDVA600, at the same time surely a bit different, too. Apparently its not the typical OTL syrupy tube amp sound. More like good sounding ss, so i have read by trusted ears.
  
 Other recommendations: If you want to end your journey in the solid state world, go stright to the Schiit Ragnarok, that is what i plan to do if my wallet fattens up.
    HDVA600 is a good choice, esp used. Smooth, silky sound, definently lets all the brightness come through from source side. First time i heard HD800 is capable of world class bass, and realistic vocals. I think its fairly neutral too, easy to differentiate sources.
  
 I wouldn't:
 The original Lehman BCL is nothing special in my experience, dull, grainy and light note weight at the same time, not a good choice for orchestral piecies. If its clones are anything like it, then i would avoid, sure the op-amps can be rolled and caps removed, etc.


----------



## Anda

Haven't heard it with HD 800, but I would probably get the Project Polaris from Garage1217, if I were looking for a cheap SS amp.
 Lots of power and tweaking opportunities with adjustable gain, bandwidth and output impedance.


----------



## Sorrodje

For classical especially I really liked the corda jazz from Jan Meier. Great clarity and detail. Great dynamics. Nice extension. The corda classic is maybe better but more expensive. A friend of mine will sell his classic because he bought a bottlehead crack. PM if interested.

 The cross feed feature does wonders for some old jazz recordings too.


----------



## ivanlyf

sorrodje said:


> For classical especially I really liked the corda jazz from Jan Meier. Great clarity and detail. Great dynamics. Nice extension. The corda classic is maybe better but more expensive. A friend of mine will sell his classic because he bought a bottlehead crack. PM if interested.
> 
> The cross feed feature does wonders for some old jazz recordings too.


 
  
  


priidik said:


> I was considering classical/orchestral as your preference.
> I haven't actually heard the Schiit amp, but for 350$ and what has been said about it, i wouldn't hesitate to buy one for myself, if i haven't got the HDVA600 already. From what i have read, the Valhalla 2 is ~nearly as good as the HDVA600, at the same time surely a bit different, too. Apparently its not the typical OTL syrupy tube amp sound. More like good sounding ss, so i have read by trusted ears.
> 
> Other recommendations: If you want to end your journey in the solid state world, go stright to the Schiit Ragnarok, that is what i plan to do if my wallet fattens up.
> ...


 
  

 Thank you Priidik & Sorrodje!
  
 Will take your advice into strong consideration


----------



## diamondears

Very long thread, so apologies if this has been discussed already. 

Read volumes of posts, articles and reviews saying HD800 is on the bright side/lacks bass body/mass. So my questions are:

1. Is this true? 
2. Or could those impressions maybe just due to gears/sources/sacs/amps that lack bass? 
3. What's the best amp that will bring out the bass on the HD800?

Cheers.


----------



## nigeljames

diamondears said:


> Very long thread, so apologies if this has been discussed already.
> 
> Read volumes of posts, articles and reviews saying HD800 is on the bright side/lacks bass body/mass. So my questions are:
> 
> ...


 
  
 1. See 2
 2. Correct, unless you are a bass head, in that case you have picked the wrong phone  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 3. Without a budget and preferences hard to give definitive suggestions.
 2.


----------



## diamondears

nigeljames said:


> 1. See 2
> 
> 2. Correct, unless you are a bass head, in that case you have picked the wrong phone
> 3. Without a budget and preferences hard to give definitive suggestions.
> 2.


 Thanks for those. 

Not a bass head, but not a treble head either. Don't like lack of bass when the recording has or calls for it. 

Looking at FR graphs of HD800, it's very linear. Bass is not rolled off at all. So where are those comments saying its on bright side coming from? If HD800 is revealing, that would only mean upstream gear are at fault. 

Budget is around US$2,000, more or less. What amps in this price range makes it bass-sufficient? If there are cheaper ones, better, of course.


----------



## navigavi

diamondears said:


> Thanks for those.
> 
> Not a bass head, but not a treble head either. Don't like lack of bass when the recording has or calls for it.
> 
> ...


 

 The Violectric v281 would be an excellent choice for that budget if you're using balanced cables.


----------



## nigeljames

diamondears said:


> Thanks for those.
> 
> Not a bass head, but not a treble head either. Don't like lack of bass when the recording has or calls for it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 With the HD800's whats on the recording is basically what you get, especially with regards the bass.
 The HD800's do have a treble peak but a good amp will also give you plenty of bass, non recessed midrange and smooth treble which wil l make the treble peak less noticeable or troublesome. It's certainly no issue for me.
 It's when source/amp have lack of bass, body and weight in the midrange or are themselves brighter than neutral that issues occur IMO.
 Some amps do prefer lower impedance phones than the HD800's so it's no surprise some don't sound very good with the HD800's.
  
 With your budget I would recommend Audio-gd Master-9 (I have Master-6 which is superb with the HD800's) or the new Schiit Ragnorak which is supposed to sound very good with the HD800's.
 For tube amps there are far more possibilities that are less likely to have the issues mentioned earlier and I am sure other people will add suggestions as I am a solid state guy.


----------



## Frank I

diamondears said:


> Thanks for those.
> 
> Not a bass head, but not a treble head either. Don't like lack of bass when the recording has or calls for it.
> 
> ...


 
 The Vioelectric V281 would be an excellent match if your in the solid state amp excellent  for the HD800. If you looking tubes the WA22 from Woo is excellent with upgrade tube is also a good choice.


----------



## Sorrodje

IMO the best option is to try seriously the hd800 from any serious amp before spending much money. SCHIIT Vali or matrix m-stage are good and affordable options. If with those amps, the hd800 has not enough bass to your tastes, then Your best options are some light Eq or other headphones. 

Spending big bucks in amps in order to change the signature of any headphone is not something I'd advice.

My 2 cents.


----------



## MattTCG

My Val 2 is going up for sale. The vintage Fisher 500c is now my new hd800 amp.


----------



## citraian

HD-800 is the best dynamic headphone that I've heard when paired with a proper DAC and AMP. 
 For your budget the Audio-gd Master 9, Schiit Ragnarok, Auralic Taurus or Violectric V281 would be interesting choices


----------



## RingingEars

matttcg said:


> My Val 2 is going up for sale. The vintage Fisher 500c is now my new hd800 amp.


 
 I need to try a vintage amp with my HD800 someday. I was looking at a Sansui AU-717 before I decided to get the CSP3.


----------



## magiccabbage

matttcg said:


> My Val 2 is going up for sale. The vintage Fisher 500c is now my new hd800 amp.


 
 Would you ever sell it do you think? There are probably people lining up to buy it anyway if you were. 
  
  
 I just recieved some GEC 6AS7G's for my WA2. Gonna do some serious listening today with HD800


----------



## RCBinTN

matttcg said:


> My Val 2 is going up for sale. The vintage Fisher 500c is now my new hd800 amp.


 
 What's up man?  You OK?


----------



## RCBinTN

My first day on this thread as I just received new Sennheiser gear.  
 Current rig:  Macbook pro -> Toslink -> Uber Bifrost -> HDVA600 -> CH800S -> HD800.
 Great sound right out of the boxes.  More revealing than the Audez'e sound.  Great soundstage.  Haven't heard any shrill treble yet.  Plenty of bass and the mids are wonderful.  Plan to test 'em out on some Zeppelin after a couple beers .
  
 All the best -
 RCBinTN


----------



## magiccabbage

rcbintn said:


> What's up man?  You OK?


 
 He got a fisher 500c that's whats up.


----------



## RCBinTN

magiccabbage said:


> He got a fisher 500c that's whats up.


 
  
 OK thanks.  After doing some research on fisher 500c, now I understand.


----------



## preproman

diamondears said:


> Budget is around US$2,000, more or less.


 
 Schiit Ragnorak


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> Schiit Ragnorak


 
 hows your new 445 sound with HD800?


----------



## preproman

magiccabbage said:


> hows your new 445 sound with HD800?


 
  
 Too Damn Good.  Just Too Damn Good. 
  
 But it's above his $2K price.


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> Too Damn Good.  Just Too Damn Good.
> 
> But it's above his $2K price.


 
 Ah yea. Id love to hear it, I cant wait for my stratus. You got anything else in the pipeline?


----------



## ruthieandjohn

diamondears said:


> Thanks for those.
> 
> Not a bass head, but not a treble head either. Don't like lack of bass when the recording has or calls for it.
> 
> ...



For $2,000, I'm Very pleased with my Sennheiser HDVD 800 amp/DAC with my HD 800. Received wisdom is that the amp in the HDVD 800 is stellar with the HD 800 but the DAC in there is just so-so. So you may want to consider the HDVD600, which is the same amp but no DAC, for $1,600, then now or later buy a better DAC.


----------



## skeptic

diamondears said:


> Thanks for those.
> 
> Not a bass head, but not a treble head either. Don't like lack of bass when the recording has or calls for it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you are considering tube amps, a mainline would be be well within your price range (even if you wanted to pay to have it built for you), and pairs marvelously with hd800's.  Highly regulated, constant current loaded, single gain stage, non-feedback parafeed designs, with high quality transformers, are the way to go IMO, if you want a great headphone tube amp.  ECP implemented something very similar in their much acclaimed, limited run L-2, but unfortunately those are very hard to come by and sold for a little bit above your price range.
  
 If I was going to go ss, I would definitely jump on the Rag bandwagon based on the high praise that amp has received both from listeners and EE's alike.


----------



## preproman

magiccabbage said:


> Ah yea. Id love to hear it, I cant wait for my stratus. You got anything else in the pipeline?


 

 Hopefully the new Schitt Stack..


----------



## preproman

skeptic said:


> If you are considering tube amps, a mainline would be be well within your price range (even if you wanted to pay to have it built for you), and pairs marvelously with hd800's.  Highly regulated, constant current loaded, single gain stage, non-feedback parafeed designs, with high quality transformers, are the way to go IMO, if you want a great headphone tube amp.  ECP implemented something very similar in their much acclaimed, limited run L-2, but unfortunately those are very hard to come by and sold for a little bit above your price range.
> 
> If I was going to go ss, I would definitely jump on the Rag bandwagon based on the high praise that amp has received both from listeners and EE's alike.


 

 Who builds the Mainline amps?


----------



## magiccabbage

preproman said:


> Hopefully the new Schitt Stack..


 
 Rag and Yggy? 
  
 Will it replace anything? 
  
 You will let me know how the Yggy sounds compared to the AMR wont you?


----------



## preproman

magiccabbage said:


> Rag and Yggy?
> 
> Will it replace anything?
> 
> You will let me know how the Yggy sounds compared to the AMR wont you?


 
  
 Not replacing anything as of right now..   
  
 No doubt.  The AMR is due for the upgrade when ever it comes available


----------



## skeptic

preproman said:


> Who builds the Mainline amps?


 
  
 Occasionally, a free offer like this pops up: http://www.head-fi.org/t/739297/ic-bottlehead-mainline
  
 Alternatively, bottlehead has a recommended paid builder with a dedicated subforum: http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=07nhemjhlmrbe9n9cgg0hmapn6&board=42.0
  
 Then again, for the cost of the build, you could probably buy and build yourself a crack + speedball (which was the first thing I ever soldered - and a perfect beginner project), and that would give you all the skills you need to complete a mainline.  Bottlehead's step by step directions really can't be beat for those with an interest in diy.


----------



## peelwonder

kensonic said:


> .
> Did you compare the Ragnarok to other amps ?


Yes...I've had a Lyr, Emotiva Mini, and and o2...really like the Ragnarok


----------



## diamondears

navigavi said:


> The Violectric v281 would be an excellent choice for that budget if you're using balanced cables.







nigeljames said:


> With the HD800's whats on the recording is basically what you get, especially with regards the bass.
> The HD800's do have a treble peak but a good amp will also give you plenty of bass, non recessed midrange and smooth treble which wil l make the treble peak less noticeable or troublesome. It's certainly no issue for me.
> It's when source/amp have lack of bass, body and weight in the midrange or are themselves brighter than neutral that issues occur IMO.
> Some amps do prefer lower impedance phones than the HD800's so it's no surprise some don't sound very good with the HD800's.
> ...







frank i said:


> The Vioelectric V281 would be an excellent match if your in the solid state amp excellent  for the HD800. If you looking tubes the WA22 from Woo is excellent with upgrade tube is also a good choice.







citraian said:


> HD-800 is the best dynamic headphone that I've heard when paired with a proper DAC and AMP.
> For your budget the Audio-gd Master 9, Schiit Ragnarok, Auralic Taurus or Violectric V281 would be interesting choices







sorrodje said:


> IMO the best option is to try seriously the hd800 from any serious amp before spending much money. SCHIIT Vali or matrix m-stage are good and affordable options. If with those amps, the hd800 has not enough bass to your tastes, then Your best options are some light Eq or other headphones.
> 
> Spending big bucks in amps in order to change the signature of any headphone is not something I'd advice.
> 
> My 2 cents.







preproman said:


> Schiit Ragnorak







ruthieandjohn said:


> For $2,000, I'm Very pleased with my Sennheiser HDVD 800 amp/DAC with my HD 800. Received wisdom is that the amp in the HDVD 800 is stellar with the HD 800 but the DAC in there is just so-so. So you may want to consider the HDVD600, which is the same amp but no DAC, for $1,600, then now or later buy a better DAC.







skeptic said:


> If you are considering tube amps, a mainline would be be well within your price range (even if you wanted to pay to have it built for you), and pairs marvelously with hd800's.  Highly regulated, constant current loaded, single gain stage, non-feedback parafeed designs, with high quality transformers, are the way to go IMO, if you want a great headphone tube amp.  ECP implemented something very similar in their much acclaimed, limited run L-2, but unfortunately those are very hard to come by and sold for a little bit above your price range.
> 
> If I was going to go ss, I would definitely jump on the Rag bandwagon based on the high praise that amp has received both from listeners and EE's alike.




Thank you all of you. Very helpful. 

Cheers!


----------



## oculus

get an audio gd 10.32 and you are done. Great DAC, Great Amplifier.   Works perfectly with a balanced HD800 (standard lead).


----------



## diamondears

What are the sound characteristics of Audio GD Master 9 and Violectric V281? Slightly leaning towards dark and warm? Nothing to demo unfortunately.


----------



## citraian

diamondears said:


> What are the sound characteristics of Audio GD Master 9 and Violectric V281? Slightly leaning towards dark and warm? Nothing to demo unfortunately.


 
 I find the Master 9 to be ever-so-slightly warm but pretty neutral (actually natural) sounding.


----------



## PleasantSounds

diamondears said:


> What are the sound characteristics of Audio GD Master 9 and Violectric V281? Slightly leaning towards dark and warm? Nothing to demo unfortunately.


 
  
 The warmth of V281 seems to be coming from the deep reaching bass, as it doesn't affect the overall transparency. Mids and highs are smoother than on many SS amps, but they don't appear to be rolled off. If I didn't know what I'm listening to, I'd say it must be a very very good tube amp.
  
 Balanced mode has some extra slam which makes it sound more dynamic and natural. Once you experience it, SE sounds too polite.


----------



## diamondears

pleasantsounds said:


> The warmth of V281 seems to be coming from the deep reaching bass, as it doesn't affect the overall transparency. Mids and highs are smoother than on many SS amps, but they don't appear to be rolled off. If I didn't know what I'm listening to, I'd say it must be a very very good tube amp.
> 
> Balanced mode has some extra slam which makes it sound more dynamic and natural. Once you experience it, SE sounds too polite.


 Thanks a lot. 

I was surprised that the Audio-GD Master 9 uses all OCC copper wires. I believe in and use only OCC copper on all my interconnect cables as much as possible and I firmly believe that OCC copper brings the whole bass range signal downstream. More like vinyl/analogue. So bass digs deep and has more "body" or "volume". Makes sense this amp goes very well with HD800. Might pull the trigger on the HD800 finally. Having Audezes, this is the only HP that piques my interest as of the moment. 

Cheers.


----------



## peelwonder

diamondears said:


> Thanks a lot
> 
> I was surprised that the Audio-GD Master 9 uses all OCC copper wires. I believe in and use only OCC copper on all my interconnect cables as much as possible and I firmly believe that OCC copper brings the whole bass range signal downstream. More like vinyl/analogue. So bass digs deep and has more "body" or "volume". Makes sense this amp goes very well with HD800. Might pull the trigger on the HD800 finally. Having Audezes, this is the only HP that piques my interest as of the moment.
> 
> Cheers.




I have a pair of LCD-X'S and I find myself listening to the 800's a lot more lately...


----------



## diamondears

peelwonder said:


> I have a pair of LCD-X'S and I find myself listening to the 800's a lot more lately...


 

 Why? Care to provide details?
  
 Being very low ohmed (20 ohms?) and very high sensitivity, I was careful to buy the LCD-X because (the way I understand it) low ohms and high sensitivity would mean less benefit from good amps in terms of SQ.


----------



## peelwonder

diamondears said:


> Why? Care to provide details?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Just a feel for how I'm feeling most days lately...I've been plugging in the 800's first and when I put the Audezes on they just don't have the detail..bottom end is better...but just digging the 800's lately


----------



## peelwonder

This being said I might like the Audezes better this evening


----------



## diamondears

peelwonder said:


> This being said I might like the Audezes better this evening


 

 I get that. That creamy sound. Very relaxing. If I want all the details, I just crank up the volume. I doubt if cranking up the volume using HD800 would be nice.


----------



## Dopaminer

diamondears said:


> I get that. That creamy sound. Very relaxing. If I want all the details, I just crank up the volume. I doubt if cranking up the volume using HD800 would be nice.


 

 Oh come on.  With the right tube amp, ie, my tube amp, cranking brings buckets of cream pouring out of my HD800 !  I basically have to wrap towels around my neck . . .


----------



## diamondears

dopaminer said:


> Oh come on.  With the right tube amp, ie, my tube amp, cranking brings buckets of cream pouring out of my HD800 !  I basically have to wrap towels around my neck . . .


 

 That's what I'm talking about...you HAVE TO use tube amps...


----------



## peelwonder

diamondears said:


> That's what I'm talking about...you HAVE TO use tube amps...:atsmile:


I don't know...I'm using a Ragnarok and it sounds pretty damn good


----------



## diamondears

peelwonder said:


> I don't know...I'm using a Ragnarok and it sounds pretty damn good


 

 Ok. I think I'm gonna buy the HD800...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With the Audio-gd Master 9 though...when the fund comes in...


----------



## johnjen

peelwonder said:


> I don't know...I'm using a Ragnarok and it sounds pretty damn good


 
 I 2nd that remark!
  
 And as it is continues to settle in, more and more 'new' musical information comes to the fore.
 It is quickly approaching that acclaimed saying of 'hearing all your music anew'.
  
 The synergy between The Rok and the 800's is becoming rather apparent.
  
 And I LIKE it!  :thumb
 And being a tweaker at heart I'm having a hard time imagining what will be gained with further 'enhancements'.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 JJ


----------



## dxanex

dopaminer said:


> Oh come on.  With the right tube amp, ie, my tube amp, cranking brings buckets of cream pouring out of my HD800 !  I basically have to wrap towels around my neck . . .


 
  




 +1 for tubes = cream.


----------



## Sorrodje

diamondears said:


> I doubt if cranking up the volume using HD800 would be nice.




I definitely enjoy a lot my hd800 at high volume when I'm in this mood. When I'm alone home though. Hd800 leaks a lot.


----------



## preproman

dopaminer said:


> Oh come on.  With the right tube amp, ie, my tube amp, cranking brings buckets of cream pouring out of my HD800 !  I basically have to wrap towels around my neck . . .


 
  


dxanex said:


> +1 for tubes = cream.


 
  
  
  
 +2- Never thought I would be a tube guy - but here I am..


----------



## whirlwind

diamondears said:


> peelwonder said:
> 
> 
> > This being said I might like the Audezes better this evening
> ...



 


Cranking the sound on the hD800 is wonderful......it is one of the things that I like most about it.

My grados are for low listening only.....but not so with the HD800


----------



## punit

magiccabbage said:


> I just recieved some GEC 6AS7G's for my WA2. Gonna do some serious listening today with HD800


 
 You will love the GEC synergy with HD 800, If not, then will probably be the first guy on Head Fi not to


----------



## preproman

Happy Thanksgiving to the HD800 family..


----------



## magiccabbage

punit said:


> If you will love the GEC synergy with HD 800, If not, then will probably be the first guy on Head Fi not to


 
 I am hearing an improvement over the 5998's but so far its not as big as I expected. 
  
 I will listen to the GEC's everyday for a week and the go back to the 5998's and see if I notice a big drop in quality. 
  
 If it anything like going from RCA's to 5998's I should notice the difference more over time.


----------



## punit

magiccabbage said:


> I am hearing an improvement over the 5998's but so far its not as big as I expected.
> 
> I will listen to the GEC's everyday for a week and the go back to the 5998's and see if I notice a big drop in quality.
> 
> If it anything like going from RCA's to 5998's I should notice the difference more over time.


 

 Yes, The difference is not big. I feel that, for vocal genres GEC is better suited for HD 800 , for EDM TS is better.


----------



## whirlwind

punit said:


> magiccabbage said:
> 
> 
> > I just recieved some GEC 6AS7G's for my WA2. Gonna do some serious listening today with HD800
> ...



 



I am currently waiting for Glenns otl amp.....will these work in his amp....I am thinking so.


----------



## magiccabbage

whirlwind said:


> punit said:
> 
> 
> > magiccabbage said:
> ...


 
 Yes and should sound brilliant. Dubstep girl had GEC's in the glenn amp and TS5998's


----------



## magiccabbage

edit


----------



## whirlwind

magiccabbage said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > punit said:
> ...



 


Thanks a lot.....man I can not wait to get Glenns OTL....it will be after Christmas before he can start on it....but it will be well worth the wait of a few months to get it.

Really stoked to hear it with my HD800


----------



## longbowbbs

magiccabbage said:


> edit


 
 I'll bet the other has a number 2.....You lucky dog!


----------



## magiccabbage

longbowbbs said:


> I'll bet the other has a number 2.....You lucky dog!


 
 hahahahaha - this is getting cryptic! But yea I think your right. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I actually posted that in the wrong thread


----------



## longbowbbs

I hope you camera battery is charged!


----------



## MickeyVee

Umm. No! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Most of my gear up until now has been tube, though not really high end stuff. Hit my end game with SS. Whatever your poison, enjoy the HD800 LOUD or soft.  Fabulous either way!!
  
 Quote:


diamondears said:


> That's what I'm talking about...you HAVE TO use tube amps...


----------



## mikemercer

mickeyvee said:


>


 
 yeah I LOVE my HD800s on tubes!
  
 Whether its my Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies or ALO Studio Six - it's a glorious combination!!


----------



## MickeyVee

Interesting.. the WA7 only lasted a couple of months for me. I found it nice but thin. Loved the look and functionality. I ended up preferring the WA6 with upgraded tubes. Would love the hear the D100/StudioSix but I am thrilled with the MHA100. As always, YMMV and really, in the end, as long ay you're loving' the music with the HD800, the rest doesn't matter.
 Quote:


mikemercer said:


>


----------



## BirdManOfCT

mickeyvee said:


>


 

 How well does the crossfeed work on the MHA100? I'd used it on a HeadRoom amp a long time ago and liked it. Wondering how much the new generation would be impacted (accuracy, soundstage, etc.).
  
 I'm still not sure I can get past the large meters, though. I'd rather not see anything moving and distracting me. I usually close my eyes at a (classical) concert.


----------



## paradoxper

You should be using Out Of Your Head.


----------



## MickeyVee

Meh on the HXD Crossed.  For me, it destroys the great soundstage.  From what I've read, it's good on 'lesser HP' but on the HD800, it's off for me.
 You can turn the meters and the meter backlighting off but personally, I like them on. What I do like is the Bass Boost.  It is well implemented and far beyond any EQ I've tried. At 2.5db, the HD800 are sublime. 
  
 BTW - working on a review of the MHA100 / HD800 combo.
  
 Quote:


birdmanofct said:


>


----------



## mikemercer

mickeyvee said:


>


 
 Oh yeah!
 I loved the HD800s w/ the McIntosh MHA100 when I reviewed it!
 The McIntosh stack (D100 / MHA100)  - I own the D100 - was amazing w/ my HD800s and Audezes!
  
 How long have you been rockin' the MHA100 now??
  
 and YES - the D100/Studio Six combo is also splendid w/ my HD800s!

  
 There's just somethin' about the synergy w/ the WA7 Fireflies that really grabs me - and I can't really put my finger on it just yet...


----------



## BirdManOfCT

mikemercer said:


> There's just somethin' about the synergy w/ the WA7 Fireflies that really grabs me - and I can't really put my finger on it just yet...


 
  
 Could be my imagination, but with the low noise floor of the WA7, when I crank up the volume during quiet tracks, I hear something like "you really like me" and "tell all your friends" and "best amp ever" in the background.


----------



## Dopaminer

birdmanofct said:


> Could be my imagination, but with the low noise floor of the WA7, when I crank up the volume during quiet tracks, I hear something like "you really like me" and "tell all your friends" and "best amp ever" in the background.


 
  
 Have you tried playing it backwards ?


----------



## BirdManOfCT

dopaminer said:


> Have you tried playing it backwards ?


 

 You mean, with the cables facing me and the knob facing away from me?


----------



## BirdManOfCT

dopaminer said:


> Have you tried playing it backwards ?


 

 Wow! Heard "One amp to Woo them all and in the quiet bind them".


----------



## KriLi

I just bought a HD800. For now I want to buy a SS amp/dac with a budget of $750 MAX.
 It should be able to connect a tube amp for the future (e.g. Little Dot MK VIII SE or DNA Sonnet 2). 
 So the dac should be good and the most important part of the combo.
  
 For now I'm set on an Audio-GD NFB-11.
 Something else to consider?
 Or go directly to the WA7 (end game)?
 Is tube rolling necessary with the WA7?


----------



## punit

Have been using the Liquid Glass for  about 4 weeks now. Pairs very well with HD 800, Quite smooth yet no treble roll-off, extended treble with a nice tone, good depth, layering & separation.This is the perfect marriage of SS & Tubes. The versatility of this amp is amazing, The ability to tune the sound by rolling 6SN7's is phenomenal.  Amongst the 6SN7's I have tried (haven't tried all so far, see my profile for my collection of 6SN7's) the following pair very well with HD 800:
   

Ken Rad 6SNTGT  
Sylvania 6SN7W Short Bottle
B65 Metal Base
Mullard CV 181
TS BGRP 6SNTGT *- this is the best*
Sylvania Bad Boy 6SN7GT (1952)
Fivre 6SN7GT
  
 Having so much fun rolling


----------



## MickeyVee

Picked up the MHA100 on Nov2 and loving it! Also picked up the MXA70 speakers and some AudioQuest Type4 cables about a week later.  Loving the entire setup. Kick butt desktop/office setup. I'm done. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
 Quote:


mikemercer said:


> Oh yeah!
> I loved the HD800s w/ the McIntosh MHA100 when I reviewed it!
> The McIntosh stack (D100 / MHA100)  - I own the D100 - was amazing w/ my HD800s and Audezes!
> 
> How long have you been rockin' the MHA100 now??


----------



## bpcans

Awesome setup Mickey. Is the MHA100 the bees knees or what?


----------



## mikemercer

mickeyvee said:


>





> Picked up the MHA100 on Nov2 and loving it! Also picked up the MXA70 speakers and some AudioQuest Type4 cables about a week later.  Loving the entire setup. Kick butt desktop/office setup. I'm done.


 
  
 That is a DOPE system!!
 Congratulations - I'm still dedicated to getting an MHA100 - after having it for the review - parting w/ that amp was like losing a limb! 
 I still feel it like a phantom limb... Especially for the HD800s - what a sonic match made in heaven - SIGH
  
 Seriously - I just couldn't do it at that time!!!!
 I have my dream of 3 top reference amps for the *Sonic Satori Personal Audio Lab*: Cavalli Audio LAu, ALO Studio Six, E.A.R HP4 - all fed by my McIntosh D100 DAC or MYTEK Stereo-192 DSD DAC or Unison Research Simply phono tube stage + VPI Traveler & Gingko Cloud9T iso-base for analog - and we woulda been DEAD BROKE!
  
 But I gotta think of something to part with, as the MHA100 was a magnificent sonic joyride! Our review at Audio360 if anybody's interested.
 I remember, especially after break-in - my HD800s were SO excitable, so lively, SOULful w/ the MHA100 behind them. I had MANY all-night listening sessions with that combination:

  
  
 You've got a great reason to be proud of the system you put together!


----------



## magiccabbage

mikemercer said:
			
		

> :
> 
> 
> You've got a great reason to be proud of the system you put together!


 
 Talking book - what an album


----------



## MickeyVee

Thank you. Your review of the MHA100 was instrumental in peaking my interest in the MHA100.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thank you for the great review BTW!  When I saw the unit at TAVES, I was drooling.  Enough to go back the next day with my HD800 and audition it.  Although the conditions were less than perfect, I heard the potential, struck a deal and went for it.  Soulful, dynamic and musical just begins to describe it.  I've started my own review but I want to spend a couple of months with it listening and refining and confirming my thoughts as I go along.
 Quote:


mikemercer said:


> But I gotta think of something to part with, as the MHA100 was a magnificent sonic joyride! Our review at Audio360 if anybody's interested.
> I remember, especially after break-in - my HD800s were SO excitable, so lively, SOULful w/ the MHA100 behind them. I had MANY all-night listening sessions with that combination:
> 
> You've got a great reason to be proud of the system you put together!


 
  
  
 Edit: My MHA100 was losing settings (Headphone Profile and custom Input names) so I brought it back to my dealer. I now have an 'MXA70 integrated Audio System' which is the same unit but is sold with the speakers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here goes the break in process again.  The are going to have the other unit repaired so I'll have a choice between the two.


----------



## Kyno

Hi HD-800 lovers!
  
 I just got mine yesterday and seeking some advices.
  
 Tried it with the amp I have at hand: O2, Garage1217 Polaris and Gustard H10 (V200 clone, supposedly).
 DACs: ODAC, AMB Labs Gamma2.
  
 I prefer the signature of the H10, but they feel somehow lifeless due to the lack of bass and the sound thinness.
 I'm not a huge fan of the Polaris signature in comparaison, and it has its drawbacks (less details, less controlled...), but they do bring their good deal of punch to the headphones, bass and body, definitely making it more enjoyable, or just enjoyable to start with.
  
 I'm wondering if the DAC could make a difference about it and bring what I'm missing with the H10. If so, any suggestions?
  
 Or maybe a different amp altogether, I read how the HD-800 loves tubes, but would be limited to a Crack+SB or Schiit budget wise.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## mikemercer

mickeyvee said:


> Edit: My MHA100 was losing settings (Headphone Profile and custom Input names) so I brought it back to my dealer. I now have an 'MXA70 integrated Audio System' which is the same unit but is sold with the speakers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 that's cool you'll have a choice!
 PLS let us know what happens!
  
 Man - the MHA100 is SO great w/ the HD800s...
 How's the MXA70 w/ em??


----------



## ubs28

kyno said:


> Hi HD-800 lovers!
> 
> I just got mine yesterday and seeking some advices.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If the only thing that disturbs you is the lack of bass and thinness, just EQ the HD800 to your liking rather than spending more money on tubes. A high quality EQ can do wonders.


----------



## Chodi

ubs28 said:


> If the only thing that disturbs you is the lack of bass and thinness, just EQ the HD800 to your liking rather than spending more money on tubes. A high quality EQ can do wonders.


 
 +1 Here are some free eq programs of high quality: http://www.terrywest.nl/equalizers.html  I have used the CS12M on occasion. Very high quality. In the end you probably will find that your O2 is not up to the task with the HD800's. The HD800 is very revealing of the source. Poor source poor results. I have not heard that Gustard amp but I have used their usb interface and it certainly performs above the price. I would not be surprised if the amp was reasonably good.


----------



## bpcans

chodi said:


> +1 Here are some free eq programs of high quality: http://www.terrywest.nl/equalizers.html  I have used the CS12M on occasion. Very high quality. In the end you probably will find that your O2 is not up to the task with the HD800's. The HD800 is very revealing of the source. Poor source poor results. I have not heard that Gustard amp but I have used their usb interface and it certainly performs above the price. I would not be surprised if the amp was reasonably good.


Chodi, do you use the CS12M as a plug-in equaliser with JRiver and how does it sound?


----------



## MickeyVee

Hey Mike.. From what I understand (what the dealer says and according to the specs), the *MHA100 is exactly the same as the MXA70*.  The MXA70 is marketed differently because it's available with the matching speakers. Thats it. But you can also get it separately.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Right now, the MXA70 is a little rough around the edges probably because it's breaking in.  From what I've read, it can take up to 500 hours to break the units in.
  
 Quote:


mikemercer said:


> that's cool you'll have a choice!
> PLS let us know what happens!
> Man - the MHA100 is SO great w/ the HD800s...
> How's the MXA70 w/ em??


----------



## Chodi

bpcans said:


> Chodi, do you use the CS12M as a plug-in equaliser with JRiver and how does it sound?


 
 It is a vst plugin so it works with either foobar or Jriver I have both (I use mostly HQPlayer). It is the best eq I have ever tried and I tried several over time. I would point out that I do not use it often it depends on the recording. It is very effective and it can be set to be subtle or very obvious in it's effect. It is basically a professional sound mixer so it can do some very interesting things if you want to take it that far. If you want bass it will give you bass by using the NY selection. I have never heard it cause any distortion but the pro settings if selected will certainly change the sound. You can also leave those off and just use it as a simple eq. If you are a rock fan it can rock you.


----------



## Priidik

kyno said:


> Hi HD-800 lovers!
> 
> I just got mine yesterday and seeking some advices.
> 
> ...


 
 I eq-d my HD800 while i had no good amplifier or dac. Not anymore. Imo dsp tends to make music lifeless.
 Best way to know what you want for sure is to audition different gear. Schiit Valhalla 2 is often suggested great entry level amp pairing.


----------



## Sorrodje

Kynq has already sold his HD800. IMO it's a bit quick to elaborate a valuable opinion about the HD800 but it's not my life.
  
 BTW, I tried some amps yesterday at our french meet. Very brief listens in non otimal conditions  so those quick impressions are very questionnable.
  
 - *EC 445* : Space - immediate feeling of improved soundstage . More sparkle in the treble than my Sonett . Associated wit a Metrum Hex . listened very briefly unfortunately.
  
 - *Schitt Mjolnir* : Not bad at all . i was afraid of harshness but that was surprisingly good to my ears. Not so trebly but not as smooth than my Sonett. Mjolnir has some warmth maybe ?.   Love the bass Slam of the SS Amp . I miss it on all tube amps I've heard or owned. not much more to say . Only few minutes spent with the amp.
  
 - *Headamp GSX-MK2* : Mother of god. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  GSX/HD800 combo is the pinnacle of Analytical listening I guess.  Lot of Slam on all registers . Especially great bass. Piercing/sharp treble but no in a so bad way. great dynamics . the amp impressed me but I would never live with that. i would only listen to classical and even with Classical it's too much for my ears. very sharp sound.  I spent more time with the headamp and my own music than with the two other amps listed before.
 My DNA Sonett offers the smoother and the more intimate listening experience with the HD800


----------



## zilch0md

Thanks for the GSX-MK2 > HD800 warning! (Not that I will ever likely spend that much on an amp...)


----------



## magiccabbage

zilch0md said:


> Thanks for the GSX-MK2 > HD800 warning! (Not that I will ever likely spend that much on an amp...)


 
 Never say never.


----------



## diamondears

If say a person is choosing between HD800 and the Audezes, in addition to terrific imaging/soundstage, how would you convince that person to get the HD800 instead?...


----------



## Kyno

Thanks a lot for the inputs! I'll keep them in mind 
  
 Quote:


sorrodje said:


> Kynq has already sold his HD800. IMO it's a bit quick to elaborate a valuable opinion about the HD800 but it's not my life.


 
 To be truely honest, a few personal drawbacks made the money welcome for the next 15 days. Not a big deal, it was just working out better this way.
 Now that it's gone, I might as well as try the HE-560 a bit later (probably february-march) since I wanted too as well. That doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the HD-800 at all, on the contrary, but I could have fallen in love with it I would still have eventually sold it to try out the HiFiman just to see what's going on over there, plain curiosity if anything, even though it would have been later. 
 Because I sold mine doesn't mean that this model is gone forever altogether. I didn't lose any money over it and it seems to come up at the same sale price on a regular basis so there's no issue whatsoever if I decide I'd like to go back to it further down the road! 
  
 By the way, going back to the HD-800 and for those who got interest into the Anax mod, I was told a few days ago that the mod 3.0 is still worked on and should arrive somewhere between 2 to 6 months (granted it is a rough estimate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## PleasantSounds

diamondears said:


> If say a person is choosing between HD800 and the Audezes, in addition to terrific imaging/soundstage, how would you convince that person to get the HD800 instead?...


 
  
 One could write a book about the differences between these, but if you take it down to one thing for me that would be comfort. Audezes are heavy and have too much clamping force.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

pleasantsounds said:


> One could write a book about the differences between these, but if you take it down to one thing for me that would be comfort. Audezes are heavy and have too much clamping force.


 

 And clamping forces can be amplified when wearing glasses. YMMV.


----------



## MacedonianHero

zilch0md said:


> Thanks for the GSX-MK2 > HD800 warning! (Not that I will ever likely spend that much on an amp...)


 
 The GS-X Mk2 will not colour the sound of the HD800s, it will reveal them (and your source/music) for what they are. The HD800s are brighter sounding headphones, no getting around that part. If you want an amp to colour them and make them sound "darker", then I'd look elsewhere. FWIW, I have never found the treble with the HD800s/GS-X MK2 overly bright (and that includes with Sabre based DACs).  I like the way the HD800s sound as is...but if you're looking for an amp to reveal what they can do and act like a microscope into your source/music, the GS-X Mk2 is a wonderful option!
  
 I have some cruddy and overly bright 1980s recordings that I don't use with the HD800s, but I don't blame the GS-X for revealing that the HD800s aren't the best for really bright recordings 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....I have other headphones that I use instead with the GS-X Mk2 that work better. 
  
 The problem with the darker amp is that while it may help you tune the HD800s, you might not be so lucky with "darker" sounding headphones. The GS-X Mk2 has sounded wonderful with pretty much every headphone and IEM I've thrown at it...I've had it for over 2 years now and really haven't worried about another dynamic amp since.


----------



## zilch0md

^ Thanks for the GSX-MK2 > HD800 recommendation! (Not that I will likely ever...)

I've not had to go to a warm DAC or amp to get away from the problems caused by oversampling DACs, ESS9918 "glare" or the low level distortion caused by use of large amounts of negative feedback in OTL tube amps and multi-stage push-pull SS amps - all of which can be revealed by the HD800. I have no opinion of the GSX-MK2, for lack of hearing it, but the consensus is pretty much unanimously positive until you start talking about how it sounds with the HD800. 

I also think consensus would say that the HD800 is much more of a chameleon than the stalwart GSX-MK2. Where shall we point the finger if someone doesn't like the GSX-MK2 > HD800 pairing? Or which shall we defend? Personally, I appreciate the negative impression Sorodge provided for the pairing. He didn't reduce my respect for either the GSX-MK2 or the HD800 - he reduced my respect for the pairing - which seems to happen more often than not with the HD800.


----------



## MacedonianHero

zilch0md said:


> ^ Thanks for the GSX-MK2 > HD800 recommendation! (Not that I will likely ever...)
> 
> I've not had to go to a warm DAC or amp to get away from the problems caused by oversampling DACs, ESS9918 "glare" or the low level distortion caused by use of large amounts of negative feedback in OTL tube amps and multi-stage push-pull SS amps - all of which can be revealed by the HD800. I have no opinion of the GSX-MK2, for lack of hearing it, but the consensus is pretty much unanimously positive until you start talking about how it sounds with the HD800.
> 
> I also think consensus would say that the HD800 is much more of a chameleon than the stalwart GSX-MK2. Where shall we point the finger if someone doesn't like the GSX-MK2 > HD800 pairing? Or which shall we defend? Personally, I appreciate the negative impression Sorodge provided for the pairing. He didn't reduce my respect for either the GSX-MK2 or the HD800 - he reduced my respect for the pairing - which seems to happen more often than not with the HD800.


 
  
 Headphones can be chameleon like, amps/dacs, that's another story. Since the Metrum Hex arrived, I'm so far believing in NOS DAC technology and the GS-X Mk2 is a very revealing amp that will let you know what your upstream rig sounds like (it is my go to amp for gear/headphone evaluations) and what your headphones truly are. If you don't like that, then as I mentioned, transparent gear won't hide that for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Most recently, when I was doing comparative listening tests (for a Headphone.guru review) between my (now sold) Bryston BDA-2 and the Metrum Hex, the GS-X / HD800s were very revealing of the differences and are my "dynamic go to rig" for such tests.
  
 I've heard the HD800s out of some amazing amps...but I keep coming back to the GS-X Mk2.


----------



## Caguioa

soo guys would u ever buy these off of ebay? dude selling me brand new ons for $1050 he says he wholesales i just feel in the middle, could be real or not ur guys thoughts?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser-HD-800-Headband-Headphones-MAKE-OFFER-/151482806649?ssPageName=ADME:X:BOCOR:US:1123&autorefresh=true


----------



## 62ohm

Hi guys,
  
 Do you guys think it is still worth it to buy the BHA-1 / Taurus Mk.2 (for HD800s of course) with the availability of Ragnarok?


----------



## MacedonianHero

caguioa said:


> soo guys would u ever buy these off of ebay? dude selling me brand new ons for $1050 he says he wholesales i just feel in the middle, could be real or not ur guys thoughts?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser-HD-800-Headband-Headphones-MAKE-OFFER-/151482806649?ssPageName=ADME:X:BOCOR:US:1123&autorefresh=true


 
  
  
 Personally, I would stick with authorized Sennheiser dealers if I was buying new.


----------



## hotdogseller

theyre still 999 on buysonic btw


----------



## Caguioa

hotdogseller said:


> theyre still 999 on buysonic btw


 
 woah did anybody from them?
  
 this is like cheapest iv ever seen them, also what dac/amp u guys use with this?
  
 and if anybody can recommend me portable 1 thats good, because i do alot of traveling lifestyle wise, and ill have to rely on my iphone/ipod for music,


----------



## cizx

why bother?  https://www.buysonic.com/products/sennheiser-hd-800/
  
 edit: what they said.  buy with confidence, they're well known.


----------



## Arttt

Contact sennheiser and ask if buysonic is authorised dealer!
Don't risk it.


----------



## Sorrodje

I knew macedonianhero would come here after my comments.

Don't get me wrong, I have been really impressed by the gsx . IMO it's not bright . The hd800 is the bright part of the combo. What would bother me with the gsx is the attack and slam. Combined with the hd800 nature, it's definitely too much for musical enjoyment IMO. Even for the best recordings.

At the meet we had jan Meier's amps. The classic and the jazz. Those amps are the most neutral and transparent I heard. The closest to "wire with gain" definition. IMO the gsx provides a impressive over clarity. It's really stunning but a somewhat unreal coloration. 

That's only my opinion based on a short listen at a meet. So the value of those statement wouldn't deserve too much trust.

Meier amps deserve more attention from hd800 owners though. Jan Meier's daccord seems great too.


----------



## justin w.

arttt said:


> Contact sennheiser and ask if buysonic is authorised dealer!
> Don't risk it.


 

 as someone who is an authorized dealer, if i sold HD800s for $999 (which i couldnt even if i wanted to), i'd be counting my last few hours as a dealer. therefore they are not an authorized dealer.


----------



## Blackmore

Source plays huge part here as well. I found HD800 using on my Cary CAD 300B pretty nice, but stepping over to Sonic Pearl, which is solid state, makes things correct right away, so, I am sure HD800 loves tube, but probably much more from OTL design, which may gives them exactly what they need, but if anyone looks for great amp and not the name, this one is steal.


----------



## longbowbbs

blackmore said:


> Source plays huge part here as well. I found HD800 using on my Cary CAD 300B pretty nice, but stepping over to Sonic Pearl, which is solid state, makes things correct right away, so, I am sure HD800 loves tube, but probably much more from OTL design, which may gives them exactly what they need, but if anyone looks for great amp and not the name, this one is steal.


 
 The HD800's pair beautifully with my Cary SLI-80 as well....The 800's are great with tubes.


----------



## preproman

sorrodje said:


> Kynq has already sold his HD800. IMO it's a bit quick to elaborate a valuable opinion about the HD800 but it's not my life.
> 
> BTW, I tried some amps yesterday at our french meet. Very brief listens in non otimal conditions  so those quick impressions are very questionnable.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What tubes was used in the 445?


----------



## Sorrodje

preproman dunno. Stock tubes i guess but I need to ask my friend befor e to be able to answer you. He replaced the 6c45pi if I remember well.


----------



## Caguioa

cizx said:


> why bother?  https://www.buysonic.com/products/sennheiser-hd-800/
> 
> edit: what they said.  buy with confidence, they're well known.




But has anybody bought from them? Idk it seem geting them for around 1k is a steal but had there ever been fake hd800?


----------



## FlySweep

caguioa said:


> But has anybody bought from them? Idk it seem geting them for around 1k is a steal but had there ever been fake hd800?




I bought my hd650 through them.. transaction was as smooth as can be (just like buying from any other trusted retailer).. and the cans showed up NIB.


----------



## Arttt

Rather spend extra 500$ or get used pair ...
I wouldn't risk buying high end headphone from not authorized dealer, perioud.


----------



## Radio_head

justin w. said:


> as someone who is an authorized dealer, if i sold HD800s for $999 (which i couldnt even if i wanted to), i'd be counting my last few hours as a dealer. therefore they are not an authorized dealer.


 
 They are an authorized dealer, buysonic = sonicelectronix.  Note they didn't offer such a deal until _after_ Sennheiser themselves offered the HD800 for $1000 (+ $25 HDTracks gift card.)  I have a friend who is in purchasing at a big box who said their cost was $800, so if you have the buying power/leverage and sell enough units, you can still turn a decent profit.


----------



## hotdogseller

I got my HD 800s from buysonic for 970 new


----------



## diamondears

Why the huge discounts? Sennheiser gonna release a newer model soon?


----------



## BirdManOfCT

diamondears said:


> Why the huge discounts? Sennheiser gonna release a newer model soon?


 

 Now, there you've gone and done it!


----------



## dxanex

diamondears said:


> Why the huge discounts? Sennheiser gonna release a newer model soon?


 

 Careful, you're bound to get a tongue lashing...


----------



## diamondears

birdmanofct said:


> Now, there you've gone and done it!


 
  


dxanex said:


> Careful, you're bound to get a tongue lashing...


 

 Eh...can't hold it anymore...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...coz this HD800 is on top of my list even before I got my LCD-2s...I just can't get it off my itch...errr, head...
  
 If they're gonna release an HD800 improved version, I'm gonna wait for that one for sure even for some extra, just some..
  
 Anybody has reliable gossip on this one?...


----------



## GardenVariety

Called Sonic Electronix and got them to "match" buysonic for $970. Done and done. The headphones arrived today NIB and they are an authorized dealer.


----------



## NinjaHamster

diamondears said:


> Eh...can't hold it anymore... ...coz this HD800 is on top of my list even before I got my LCD-2s...I just can't get it off my itch...errr, head...
> 
> If they're gonna release an HD800 improved version, I'm gonna wait for that one for sure even for some extra, just some..
> 
> Anybody has reliable gossip on this one?...




The HD801 will use Dylithium crystals ....


----------



## Mambosenior

The gossip from the Rhineland is: the future is wireless.


----------



## mikemercer

arttt said:


> Contact sennheiser and ask if buysonic is authorised dealer!
> Don't risk it.


 
 GREAT idea!!!!
  
 I don't play around when it comes to acquiring Sennheiser cans!
 Now - I inherited my HD800a from my dearly departed friend Lee Weiland (formerly of Cryoparts - one of the original Sponsors of Head-Fi)
 so I have alot of emotional attachment w/ those..
  
 But ALL MY OTHERS - I've gotten from an authorized Sennheiser dealer,
 or Senn direct when I reviewed a pair and wanna buy it
  
 this sounds SO good w/ my HD800s right now!
 It's a protoype (on the Beta team) for an Exemplar headphone amp! Tubes...

  
 using my HD800s right now,
 updating the pic SOON!!
 the chassis WILL BE MORE COMPACT
 but man, balance and SE output.
  
 and first Impression is:
 Oh no!! another F____ headphone amp I want!!
 Especially how its makin my HD800s SING right now!!!!


----------



## justin w.

even if someone is an authorized dealer (for now) the warranty won't be honored if the price paid is less than 90% of MAP
  
 i find the whole thing strange as i've had a call at 8am when my prices were too low by 95 cents.


----------



## Arttt

mikemercer said:


> GREAT idea!!!!
> 
> I don't play around when it comes to acquiring Sennheiser cans!
> Now - I inherited my HD800a from my dearly departed friend Lee Weiland (formerly of Cryoparts - one of the original Sponsors of Head-Fi)
> ...





I like the looks of it, simple.
I heard hd800 sounds great with tube amps, I ordered Audio Valve rkv mrk 2 amp for 2 weeks demo.
I didint like the sound, mids were huge and lush but highs and lows were off, weack dynamic, background noise...sound felt like taking a bath in warm wet send.
After that I haven't heard any tube amps...


----------



## lukeap69

justin w. said:


> even if someone is an authorized dealer (for now) the warranty won't be honored if the price paid is less than 90% of MAP
> 
> i find the whole thing strange as i've had a call at 8am when my prices were too low by 95 cents.


 
 Sennheiser outlet offered 35% discount few days ago (price is slightly lower than buysonic). If they can do it, why not the authorised dealers? BTW, I purchased my HD800 from the Sennheiser outlet itself.


----------



## diamondears

lukeap69 said:


> Sennheiser outlet offered 35% discount few days ago (price is slightly lower than buysonic). If they can do it, why not the authorised dealers? BTW, I purchased my HD800 from the Sennheiser outlet itself.


 Excited to see the new improved version of the HD800...


----------



## preproman

mikemercer said:


> GREAT idea!!!!
> 
> I don't play around when it comes to acquiring Sennheiser cans!
> Now - I inherited my HD800a from my dearly departed friend Lee Weiland (formerly of Cryoparts - one of the original Sponsors of Head-Fi)
> ...


 
  
 So what amp is it?


----------



## GardenVariety

justin w. said:


> even if someone is an authorized dealer (for now) the warranty won't be honored if the price paid is less than 90% of MAP
> 
> i find the whole thing strange as i've had a call at 8am when my prices were too low by 95 cents.


 
 I'm having a hard time believing that Sennheiser would punish the consumer for getting a low price from an authorized dealer. Especially considering it's a large one. 
  
 EDIT: Just talked to Sennheiser directly and they said it's covered as long as it's from an authorized dealer regardless of the price.


----------



## xaval

The King Is Coming


----------



## Arttt

Hd801 seriously ? Come on...


----------



## Khragon

Hii guys, just joined the HD800 group, will get mine on Friday... can't wait.  Any one using hd800 with WA5 have any tube recommendations?


----------



## magiccabbage

khragon said:


> Hii guys, just joined the HD800 group, will get mine on Friday... can't wait.  Any one using hd800 with WA5 have any tube recommendations?


 
 I use HD800. My WA5 will ship next week.  I have asked around. This seems to be regarded as a very good combo ¬
  
 EML 300b - TS 6F8G - CV 593.


----------



## Khragon

magiccabbage said:


> EML 300b - TS 6F8G - CV 593.


 
  
 Hm.. just need EML 300b to try that combo out.. time to start seeding my significant on what to get me for Xmas present.


----------



## Eee Pee

My mistake.  I was trying to figure out how to make that little character magiccabbage made and hit reply.
  
 Edit, alt L ¬


----------



## magiccabbage

khragon said:


> Hm.. just need EML 300b to try that combo out.. time to start seeding my significant on what to get me for Xmas present.


 
 Have you got any spare CV's or TS 6f8g's for sale? 


eee pee said:


> My mistake.  I was trying to figure out how to make that little character magiccabbage made and hit reply.
> 
> Edit, alt L ¬


 
 LOL ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬


----------



## Khragon

magiccabbage said:


> Have you got any spare CV's or TS 6f8g's for sale?


 
   
I have some I don't mind selling, I got to check what I have when I get home tonight, I bought a number of 6f8g from FrankI sometime ago.


----------



## magiccabbage

khragon said:


> I have some I don't mind selling, I got to check what I have when I get home tonight, I bought a number of 6f8g from FrankI sometime ago.


 
 Brilliant keep me posted - I will buy them off you in the coming weeks to coincide with the amp arriving. Send me a PM when you have the time 
  
 Oh I see you have the Zu speakers. What is the pairing like with WA5? 
  
 Thanks 
  
  Paddy


----------



## BirdManOfCT

eee pee said:


> My mistake.  I was trying to figure out how to make that little character magiccabbage made and hit reply.
> 
> Edit, alt L ¬


 
  
 ˙ooʇ 'ʇɐǝu ʎʇʇǝɹd sᴉ uʍop ǝpᴉsdn ƃuᴉʇᴉɹM


----------



## DACattack

Purchased the HD 800 from Buysonic for $999 and they are to arrive tomorrow.
  
 Currently have a Bifrost Uber paired with an Asgard 2 (with Wyrd) that I've been using to run HD 600s.
  
 I have a Valhalla 2 ordered (still on backorder actually) that I'll use to start my HD 800 journey once it arrives.
  
 Can't wait!! Spent the past several days reading this entire thread and my head is spinning ... feel like I'm stepping into a very deep pool!


----------



## punit

magiccabbage said:


> I use HD800. My WA5 will ship next week.  I have asked around. This seems to be regarded as a very good combo ¬
> 
> EML 300b - TS 6F8G - CV 593.


 

 So you will have the WA5 & Stratus in the near future ?


----------



## magiccabbage

punit said:


> So you will have the WA5 & Stratus in the near future ?


 
 No I cancelled the Stratus. Will re consider it next year if I'm not satisfied with WA5/HD800 combo


----------



## whirlwind

dacattack said:


> Purchased the HD 800 from Buysonic for $999 and they are to arrive tomorrow.
> 
> Currently have a Bifrost Uber paired with an Asgard 2 (with Wyrd) that I've been using to run HD 600s.
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats....that is a great deal.
  
 They are great cans.


----------



## Arttt

You read the whole thread ? O.o

Ohh now you got all the expectations to match. Forget all you read here )


----------



## zilch0md

Hi Justin,
  
 Quote:


justin w. said:


> even if someone is an authorized dealer (for now) the warranty won't be honored if the price paid is less than 90% of MAP
> 
> i find the whole thing strange as i've had a call at 8am when my prices were too low by 95 cents.


 
  
 What is MAP $ for the HD800?  Where's the cutoff?
  
 Thanks,
  
 Mike


----------



## icebear

I guess that would be :  *M*anufacturer *a*dvertised *p*rice
 and for the HD800 it's around $1499.95 acc to their website.
 http://en-us.sennheiser.com/over-ear-headphones


----------



## zilch0md

icebear said:


> I guess that would be :  *M*anufacturer *a*dvertised *p*rice
> and for the HD800 it's around $1499.95 acc to their website.
> http://en-us.sennheiser.com/over-ear-headphones


 
  
 So, Justin W. is saying that Sennheiser will not honor a warranty, even from an authorized dealer, if you paid less than 90% of $1499.95?  
  
*That means no warranty for anyone who paid less than $1349.95 for their HD800.*
  
 Really?


----------



## bearFNF

icebear said:


> I guess that would be :  *M*anufacturer *a*dvertised *p*rice
> and for the HD800 it's around $1499.95 acc to their website.
> http://en-us.sennheiser.com/over-ear-headphones



$1499.95 is actually the Manufacturer Suggest Retail Price (MSRP)

Minimum Advertised Price (MAP)
is the agreed price a reseller agrees to advertise a brand or product at by contract which means if they sell it for under the agreed price they are breaking a legal contact. Bad for business.


----------



## zerodeefex

justin w. said:


> even if someone is an authorized dealer (for now) the warranty won't be honored if the price paid is less than 90% of MAP
> 
> i find the whole thing strange as i've had a call at 8am when my prices were too low by 95 cents.




What, this violates consumer protection law in the EU. Is this US only?


----------



## screwdriver

for the long time owners- how many of you needed repair /warranty service on a sennheiser hd800?


----------



## Arttt

screwdriver said:


> for the long time owners- how many of you needed repair /warranty service on a sennheiser hd800?


 
 if you dont take bubble bath with your hd800 on, it will live longer than you...


----------



## dxanex

screwdriver said:


> for the long time owners- how many of you needed repair /warranty service on a sennheiser hd800?




Personally, I haven't owned my HD800 long but in all my time reading about them on head-fi I can't recall any problems with the HD800 that weren't attributed to user error and/or carelessness.


----------



## GardenVariety

zilch0md said:


> So, Justin W. is saying that Sennheiser will not honor a warranty, even from an authorized dealer, if you paid less than 90% of $1499.95?
> 
> *That means no warranty for anyone who paid less than $1349.95 for their HD800.*
> 
> Really?


 
 Again, I called Sennheiser yesterday and they said they'd cover it no matter what the price as long as it's from an authorized dealer. If anything, they'd punish the seller.


----------



## paradoxper

This was pretty cool.


----------



## screwdriver

arttt said:


> if you dont take bubble bath with your hd800 on, it will live longer than you...


 

 i was just making a point , ive owned two and didn't need any service - they are made well.


----------



## sunwolf

I want these, but I'm waiting until <$900 (maybe a long time ).

The lowest price they've been so far was ~$880 on Amazon.com last year...?


----------



## Eee Pee

My #6954 has tons of hours on them. Dropped. Chips. Worn pads. On a bunch other people's heads and in their hands. Well travelled. Only issue ever was a cable entry point connection that would periodically cut out. It was one of those, it fixed itself things. That was a long time ago and it's not been a problem again. 

I assume the underlying question is, does one really need to worry about a warranty? Peace of mind is nice. Saving like, $500 is nice too. Gardenvariety said he called em, so apparently as long as it's an authorized dealer…


----------



## ubs28

zilch0md said:


> So, Justin W. is saying that Sennheiser will not honor a warranty, even from an authorized dealer, if you paid less than 90% of $1499.95?
> 
> *That means no warranty for anyone who paid less than $1349.95 for their HD800.*
> 
> Really?


 

 Non-sense. Sennheiser is not above the law. Even if a shop sold you a HD800 for $1, they will have to provide warranty. It's your right as a consumer.


----------



## Mortalcoil

paradoxper said:


> This was pretty cool.





  Nice find ... thanks for sharing.


----------



## Radio_head

justin w. said:


> even if someone is an authorized dealer (for now) the warranty won't be honored if the price paid is less than 90% of MAP
> 
> i find the whole thing strange as i've had a call at 8am when my prices were too low by 95 cents.


 
 Called Sennheiser.  Not true and they are covered under warranty.  It is eminently possible that a company that sells major volume is dealt with in a more deferential fashion, no matter how much of a bulldog-like reputation Sennheiser has with its dealers.


----------



## kazsud

magiccabbage said:


> Brilliant keep me posted - I will buy them off you in the coming weeks to coincide with the amp arriving. Send me a PM when you have the time
> 
> Oh I see you have the Zu speakers. What is the pairing like with WA5?
> 
> ...




+1 on the Zu Speakers


----------



## whirlwind

thanks for posting the tour video of the senn plant....that was pretty cool


----------



## hotdogseller

requested my FR graph today


----------



## johnjen

screwdriver said:


> for the long time owners- how many of you needed repair /warranty service on a sennheiser hd800?


 
 I've been using my pair, more or less continuously since I bought them back in 3/2010.
  
 No problems thus far.
  
 JJ


----------



## Dopaminer

paradoxper said:


> This was pretty cool.




  
  
 So cool to see the HD800 getting made.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

paradoxper said:


> This was pretty cool.





 Thanks for the link!


----------



## dxanex

Really cool video about the HD800. I wish they would also post a video of the "lesson" where the guy was drawing on the graph paper, I bet that was also very interesting. 

Stopped watching when they got to the Urbanite though because I couldn't care less.


----------



## Arttt

That foam room was so cool!!!!


----------



## icebear

I posted this reply in the separate video thread :
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/744866/sennheiser-factory-tour-hanover-germany#post_11098645


----------



## ubs28

I'm currently experimenting with the cross feed settings on the Chord Hugo. The soundstage seems more "focussed" and "centred" with the cross feed section on. Not sure what is best since I seems to loose soundstage width based on my set of ears. But it sounds good nonetheless. 
  
 Is cross feed with software plugins or from a dac / amp a good idea with the HD800?


----------



## Chodi

ubs28 said:


> I'm currently experimenting with the cross feed settings on the Chord Hugo. The soundstage seems more "focussed" and "centred" with the cross feed section on. Not sure what is best since I seems to loose soundstage width based on my set of ears. But it sounds good nonetheless.
> 
> Is cross feed with software plugins or from a dac / amp a good idea with the HD800?


 
 In my experience crossfeed always produces a smaller sound stage. That is because it is introducing some of one channel into the other. That is the nature of crossfeed. Since sound stage is a result mostly of phase response the crossfeed effects phase response. Still, depending on your personal taste it can produce a more focused, but smaller sound stage. When you listen to speakers in a listening room acoustics and your ears produce a natural sound stage. Crossfeed attempts to simulate this effect. TB Isone is one vst plugin that attempts to simulate room acoustics with crossfeed without shrinking the sound stage. You might give that a try it is a vst plugin. In my experience it will produce the most realistic sound stage similar to listening to speakers. Of course, it will also color the sound a bit and it is not easy to set up properly but you can play with it you may like what it does.


----------



## Oricaedian

dat foam room


----------



## MickeyVee

Anyone see the MassDrop  ZY Cable HD800 set? Sweet deal if the cables are good. 

_This drop features three different cables and an adapter that terminate with connections found in high-end amplifiers. Made from large diameter four-core twisted crystal copper and neutrik plated nickel silver, the 6.5 mm, 3-Pin XLR, 4-Pin XLR and 4-Pin XLR to 6.5 mm cables are all extremely durable and offer high resolving power and smooth sound._
 Any opinions or comments?


----------



## Chodi

mickeyvee said:


> Anyone see the MassDrop  ZY Cable HD800 set? Sweet deal if the cables are good.
> 
> _This drop features three different cables and an adapter that terminate with connections found in high-end amplifiers. Made from large diameter four-core twisted crystal copper and neutrik plated nickel silver, the 6.5 mm, 3-Pin XLR, 4-Pin XLR and 4-Pin XLR to 6.5 mm cables are all extremely durable and offer high resolving power and smooth sound._
> Any opinions or comments?


 
 If I read the drop correctly you choose which configuration you want. I don't read that you get all three. I own these cables which I purchased off ebay several months ago for my HD800's. Mine are terminated with 4 pin xlr for balanced. I think they are excellent cables. I would recommend them. Unless you are the type that believes a $1000 cable makes a difference I think these are an excellent choice and they are offering them for less than the price I paid on ebay. I use them everyday. No complaints build quality is good.


----------



## lukeap69

If you choose XLR, then 10USD will be added. If the adapter is added, another 29 bucks will be added to the total cost. The base price is for 6.3mm plug only.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

What would be a step up for an integrated DAC/amp for the HD800 from the Woo Audio WA7?


----------



## bpcans

birdmanofct said:


> What would be a step up for an integrated DAC/amp for the HD800 from the Woo Audio WA7?


The Chord Hugo DAC/amp sounds really great with Senn HD800's, at least to my ears. Some say it's too bright, others don't. Maybe a tube amp that's got enough power to make the 800's sing would be fun. If your using Senn 800's that means that you appreciate definition and clarity, so finding and picking a DAC is really a matter of personal preference. I wasn't aware until I got into this hobby how completely different many DAC's sound.


----------



## Sorrodje

bpcans said:


> The Chord Hugo DAC/amp sounds really great with Senn HD800's, at least to my ears. Some say it's too bright, others don't. Maybe a tube amp that's got enough power to make the 800's sing would be fun. If your using Senn 800's that means that you appreciate definition and clarity, so finding and picking a DAC is really a matter of personal preference. I wasn't aware until I got into this hobby how completely different many DAC's sound.


 
  
  
 Sorry but i don't see any HD800 or Hugo in your profile ???


----------



## bpcans

sorrodje said:


> Sorry but i don't see any HD800 or Hugo in your profile ???


I was lucky enough to borrow a friends portable rig for a couple weeks while he was out of town.


----------



## longbowbbs

birdmanofct said:


> What would be a step up for an integrated DAC/amp for the HD800 from the Woo Audio WA7?


 
 How much is your budget? Lot's of great options but some get expensive.


----------



## whirlwind

bpcans said:


> sorrodje said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry but i don't see any HD800 or Hugo in your profile ???
> ...


 
 That was a very nice score bp
  
 Over all....what did you think of the HD800


----------



## Sorrodje

bpcans said:


> I was lucky enough to borrow a friends portable rig for a couple weeks while he was out of town.


 
  
 OK I see. thks.


----------



## bpcans

whirlwind said:


> That was a very nice score bp
> 
> Over all....what did you think of the HD800


I've thought highly of the 800's for awhile, most likely they'll be my next set of cans. I'm interested to see if the rumours of a new Sennheiser flagship are tru before I jump just to be sure though. I was first impressed by the 800's outstanding comfort. Next came their detail, clarity, instrument placement, and of course their ginormous soundstage. Some say that the 800's are bass light, but to me I found them to be exceedingly accurate and natural, (true to life), than other more colored and bass accentuated hp's.


----------



## whirlwind

bpcans said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > That was a very nice score bp
> ...


 
 I see....yeah, if there is good bass in the recording....no worries...you will hear outstanding bass.
  
 I am currently waiting for Glenn to build me  his OTL.....should be in january.....I can't wait to snag a couple of sets of nice tubes and try it out.
  
 Some have told me it sounds every bit as good as the WA22......I have not heard the WA22, but I do know that is a very fine amp.


----------



## magiccabbage

bpcans said:


> The Chord Hugo DAC/amp sounds really great with Senn HD800's, at least to my ears. Some say it's too bright, others don't. Maybe a tube amp that's got enough power to make the 800's sing would be fun. If your using Senn 800's that means that you appreciate definition and clarity, so finding and picking a DAC is really a matter of personal preference. I wasn't aware until I got into this hobby how completely different many DAC's sound.


 
 I also really liked the Hugo - I did a review (in my sig). The first 2 weeks I had it I didn't even use my WA2, just the Hugo. The WA2 with maxed tubes is only slightly better than the hugo, but the Hugo on its own is more detailed than the Hugo as DAC through WA2 if that makes sense. 
  
 The DAC floored me but I have not heard a lot of high end DACs apart from the NAD M51.


----------



## ubs28

chodi said:


> In my experience crossfeed always produces a smaller sound stage. That is because it is introducing some of one channel into the other. That is the nature of crossfeed. Since sound stage is a result mostly of phase response the crossfeed effects phase response. Still, depending on your personal taste it can produce a more focused, but smaller sound stage. When you listen to speakers in a listening room acoustics and your ears produce a natural sound stage. Crossfeed attempts to simulate this effect. TB Isone is one vst plugin that attempts to simulate room acoustics with crossfeed without shrinking the sound stage. You might give that a try it is a vst plugin. In my experience it will produce the most realistic sound stage similar to listening to speakers. Of course, it will also color the sound a bit and it is not easy to set up properly but you can play with it you may like what it does.


 

 Many thanks for the response. Seems to be in line what my ears are telling me. I'll keep on experimenting


----------



## Sorrodje




----------



## DarrenLays

I should be joining the HD800 club shortly, they arrive today according to the USPS tracking number.
  

  
 Anyone have any favorite tubes for the Lyr with hd800?


----------



## magiccabbage

sorrodje said:


>


 
 how you finding the pairing?


----------



## Sorrodje

Lovely on my Desk.


----------



## MattTCG

darrenlays said:


> I should be joining the HD800 club shortly, they arrive today according to the USPS tracking number.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone have any favorite tubes for the Lyr with hd800?


 
  
 IMO the lyr is barely decent with the 800. Val 2 is the way to go with less and stock tubes and very good.


----------



## Frank I

magiccabbage said:


> how you finding the pairing?


 
 Paddy have to say the HD800 and Hugo are synergistic  together, I use the combo frequently.


----------



## frankrondaniel

I certainly seem to be one of the few folks that doesn't enjoy the Hugo/HD800 pairing.  Tried it again today after not using it for a while and I still find the pairing to be bright and lacking weight. For me, the Hugo is a much better pairing with HD650s.  The 650s seem to add that missing weight for me while the Hugo seems to lift the "veil".


----------



## magiccabbage

frankrondaniel said:


> I certainly seem to be one of the few folks that doesn't enjoy the Hugo/HD800 pairing.  Tried it again today after not using it for a while and I still find the pairing to be bright and lacking weight. For me, the Hugo is a much better pairing with HD650s.  The 650s seem to add that missing weight for me while the Hugo seems to lift the "veil".


 
 Interesting, I wish I still had my 650's so I could try that out. I did like the HD800/hugo pairing when I had it. Was amazing for new recorded rock. I listened to that Alt j album "An awesome wave" every day when I had the Hugo.


----------



## Eee Pee

magiccabbage said:


> I listened to that Alt j album "An awesome wave" every day when I had the Hugo.


 
 When the enjoyment factor is so high, one tends to not care so much about other things.


----------



## magiccabbage

eee pee said:


> When the enjoyment factor is so high, one tends to not care so much about other things.


 
 +1


----------



## MickeyVee

I preferred the Naim DAC-V1 over the WA7.  Auditioned the HDVD800 and it was equal to the Naim on SE output.  Didn't try the balanced out but people say that the balanced amp out is another step above.  Then there's the McIntosh MHA100
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Quote:


birdmanofct said:


> What would be a step up for an integrated DAC/amp for the HD800 from the Woo Audio WA7?


----------



## DarrenLays

Are the earpads supposed to be very padded?
  
 Mine have like no padding whatsoever, just a tiny tiny tiny bit.  (I bought them used)


----------



## kazsud

what did you think of the NAD M51 and what did you hear it with?


----------



## Chodi

darrenlays said:


> Are the earpads supposed to be very padded?
> 
> Mine have like no padding whatsoever, just a tiny tiny tiny bit.  (I bought them used)


 
 Time for new pads. Yes they are very padded. As they wear and usually through cleaning attempts they wind up as you describe.


----------



## ubs28

frank i said:


> Paddy have to say the HD800 and Hugo are synergistic  together, I use the combo frequently.


 

 Me too. I originally bought the Chord Hugo for my Shure SE846 (this combination sounds incredible also).  I was extremely surprised how great the HD800 sounds with the Chord Hugo. Sounds very good on any type of music I throw at it. 
  
 I heard the HD800 + HDVD800 a couple of times and I don't feel the need to upgrade to a desktop setup to be honest.


----------



## DarrenLays

chodi said:


> Time for new pads. Yes they are very padded. As they wear and usually through cleaning attempts they wind up as you describe.


 
  
 Aw man that sucks, it feels like there's only a tiny bit of padding left .
  
 Oh well, I'll buy some for xmas I guess.


----------



## Khragon

Received my hd800, first impression compared to lcd2 is boy this thing is so light! My impression of the sound is nothing surprising, lots of detail, using hd800 with wa5 gave a nice smooth sound compares to the da8, so far really enjoy the increased sound stage and details


----------



## lin0003

Wow, jumping from the LCD-2 to the HD800 is a very big change.


----------



## DarrenLays

lin0003 said:


> Wow, jumping from the LCD-2 to the HD800 is a very big change.


 
  
  
 In comfort yeah totally, the soundstage is definitely bigger and more "3d" but I don't think it's like a huge massive upgrade, more-so just sort of a sidegrade.
  
 I think it would come down to personal preference, but I love them so far.
  
 I can't believe how much more comfortable they are than LCD-2!!


----------



## hotdogseller

got my FR Graph yesterday, looks a little different from others I've seen on here (but roughly the same obviously)


----------



## Dopaminer

hotdogseller said:


> got my FR Graph yesterday, looks a little different from others I've seen on here (but roughly the same obviously)


 
 Mine seems quite different at the high end  :


----------



## hotdogseller

weird, some models seem to have that 6k jump and others don't.


----------



## Taowolf51

hotdogseller said:


> got my FR Graph yesterday, looks a little different from others I've seen on here (but roughly the same obviously)


 
  
 That's a pretty awesome graph, IMO.


----------



## magiccabbage

khragon said:


> Received my hd800, first impression compared to lcd2 is boy this thing is so light! My impression of the sound is nothing surprising, lots of detail, using hd800 with wa5 gave a nice smooth sound compares to the da8, so far really enjoy the increased sound stage and details


 
 Keep us posted I should have LCD2 some time next year so I'm interested in the differences with WA5. Ill be getting the LCD2 for **** and pop - hopefully it will work well.


----------



## magiccabbage

lin0003 said:


> Wow, jumping from the LCD-2 to the HD800 is a very big change.


 
  


darrenlays said:


> In comfort yeah totally, the soundstage is definitely bigger and more "3d" but I don't think it's like a huge massive upgrade, more-so just sort of a sidegrade.
> 
> I think it would come down to personal preference, but I love them so far.
> 
> I can't believe how much more comfortable they are than LCD-2!!


 
 Sometimes its nice to have 2 headphones that sounds completely different from each other.


----------



## whirlwind

magiccabbage said:


> lin0003 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, jumping from the LCD-2 to the HD800 is a very big change.
> ...


 
 I totally agree


----------



## Anavel0

dopaminer said:


> Mine seems quite different at the high end  :


 
 You've got a less than 5 dB bump from 6~8k-ish range, compared to the other pair. I wouldn't be worried about that.


----------



## hotdogseller

Anyone have a link to the most recent anax mod?


----------



## MattTCG

This is what I used:
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod


----------



## OJNeg

matttcg said:


> This is what I used:
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod


 

 That is not the most recent one.


----------



## Dopaminer

anavel0 said:


> You've got a less than 5 dB bump from 6~8k-ish range, compared to the other pair. I wouldn't be worried about that.


 
  
 Yes, no worrres here at all.  I absolutely love mine !


----------



## DarrenLays

I got my HD800's in, here's a few pictures and also a link to my build log for my PC if you guys are interested in that stuff!    I need to get a Schiit Bifrost soon, I feel my "Fiio D3" DAC is a "bottleneck"
  
 http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/185034-updated-the-renewal-i7-4790k-z97-m-power-r9-290x-cryorig-r1-ultimate/?p=3613520


----------



## Dopaminer

Ahhhh, I remember that sweet day one year ago when that huge black, coffin-like box arrived, lined with black silk.   Good times.  Enjoy !


----------



## hotdogseller

ojneg said:


> That is not the most recent one.


 
  
 anyone have the most rwecent one??


----------



## johnjen

hotdogseller said:


> anyone have the most rwecent one??


 
  
  
 Isn't a link to that which shall not be linked to, still verboten?
  
 I'll send it in a pm, assuming that is accepatable to the PTB
  
 JJ


----------



## freedom01

Hi guys,
  
 any one with the hd800 used for over two years ?
 have you changed the earpads yet ?
 or do you see yourself changing it any time soon ?


----------



## johnjen

freedom01 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> any one with the hd800 used for over two years ?
> have you changed the earpads yet ?
> or do you see yourself changing it any time soon ?


 
  
 Yes
 Yes
 Not for a while yet.
  
 JJ


----------



## DarrenLays

freedom01 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> any one with the hd800 used for over two years ?
> have you changed the earpads yet ?
> or do you see yourself changing it any time soon ?


 
  
  
 I bought a pair used, and they definitely need a new set of pads, they're still insanely comfortable though.
  
 Serial # is 15xxx so I think they're around 2 years old?


----------



## 62ohm

freedom01 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> any one with the hd800 used for over two years ?
> have you changed the earpads yet ?
> or do you see yourself changing it any time soon ?


 
  
 Mine is only a little over 1 year old and the pads are beginning to show signs of wear. With this rate, I'm not sure they would last more than 2 years, which is bad news considering the price of these pads..


----------



## lukeap69

62ohm said:


> Mine is only a little over 1 year old and the pads are beginning to show signs of wear. With this rate, I'm not sure they would last more than 2 years, which is bad news considering the price of these pads..




Perhaps you are using them a lot.


----------



## 62ohm

lukeap69 said:


> Perhaps you are using them a lot.


 
  
 About 6-8 hours per day, occasionally tops 14 hours per day on holidays.


----------



## Chodi

I use mine a lot and I just had the dealer change the pads last week. These pads are EXPENSIVE. At least they are in my local market. I really waited too long to change them. It makes a difference. I've had my set less than a year but I bought them used I guess they are about two years old. I doubt I would go a year without changing them after this experience. Much more comfy.


----------



## lukeap69

62ohm said:


> About 6-8 hours per day, occasionally tops 14 hours per day on holidays.




Wish I could use mine that long everyday...


----------



## freedom01

Thanks for the inputs guys.
 Curious to know further (mine not worn out yet, just bought a couple of months),
  
 Does the partially / fully worn out pads affect the sonic (one way or another) ?
 In terms of comfort wise, are we talking about the ears touching the inner parts etc ?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Sorrodje

Mine are Two and a half years old.  I have it since July 2013 and my pads and the Headband show signs of use.  I'll change them for Xmas although I could certainly use the old ones during a lot of time.


----------



## zilch0md

For about three years, now, I've routinely used these size large *disposable, elasticized, ear pad covers* on all of my fullsize headphones:
  
       http://www.amazon.com/Large-Stretchable-Headphone-Covers-Earmuff-style/dp/B009CDXPCG
  
 They're great for protecting velour and leather.  
  
 I've found them to be sonically transparent, but surely they have some impact - I'm just saying that if it were measured, it's got to be a fraction of a dB of attenuation. Best of all, they make the ear pads more comfortable in warm weather - especially leather pads, as with the LCD-2.  
  
 They're large enough to fit my HD800, but not large enough for the AKG K550 for example.  
  
 You can just make out the covers in this photo of the HD800, on the side table at my recliner:
  

  
 iPad 3 streaming TIDAL 44/16 > Pure i-20 Coaxial Out > Metrum Octave MkII > NuForce HA-200 > HD800
  
 The Pure i-20 is rubber-banded to the marble slab of cheese slicer for ballast.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 A smaller size of disposable cover works well with the DT1350 or Amperior, for example:
  
       http://www.amazon.com/Small-Stretchable-Headphone-Covers-standard-size/dp/B009CF1NM8
  
 Everyone who has ever bought used headphones from me can attest that the pads were in like-new condition. The foam inside some pads might break down over a sufficient time frame, but at least I'm not accelerating their demise by having to wash the pads.
  
 Mike


----------



## shabta

Anyone know the best place to buy pads in France or Euro-zone?


----------



## reemo

I washed my earpads in the washing machine and i didnt use any washing detergent so they left a little sticky from sweat, gonna wash them again with some. Been using my HD800 daily like 8-12 hours for two years, and they have seen a lot of action from games so they have quite a bit of sweat in them, im gonna replace them soon but first well see how the new wash goes. I don't have any wear on the pads. I have broken cable from the connector probably because of the user not using them with silk gloves. Some paint have been chipped away also. They have been dropped couple of times and i still feel these are in proper use undestructable versus headphones made with plastic.
  
 I ordered new cables and deciding what to buy and waiting the order it took like 3 months without the use of my HD800. Now that i have balanced setup im in love again. These are just amazing considering comfort and the sound is clear and euforic. With these i have started to listen different styles of music in would never thought i would listen.


----------



## Zoom25

zilch0md said:


> iPad 3 streaming TIDAL 44/16 > Pure i-20 Coaxial Out > Metrum Octave MkII > NuForce HA-200 > HD800
> 
> The Pure i-20 is rubber-banded to the marble slab of cheese slicer for ballast.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice setup Mike. Have you tried the Pure i-20 with any lightning port devices instead of the 30 pin connectors?


----------



## zilch0md

^ Thanks Zoom25.
  
 Pure doesn't make a Lightning version of the i-20 (why not?) and I don't have a 30-pin -to- Lightning adapter, although I've seen them on Amazon. My iPad Mini uses a Lightning connector, but I like using the iPad 3 for streaming music this way - having brought it back into service, so to speak, thanks to Tidal. The Retina display is nice, but the larger size of the iPad 3 makes it better in this role than the iPad Mini, because I can read all the text and navigate well, almost at arm's length - without having to move the iPad. And unlike some other iDevice -to-SPDIF converters out there, the Pure i-20 can charge a 30-pin iDevice while it's playing.  The marble slab (or some other heavy ballast) is a must for stability with the fullsize iPad.. Unfortunately, the rubber sole of the i-20 resists every type of adhesive I've tried.  Nothing sticks to it.  So, rubber bands it is...
  
 Meanwhile, except for rare dropouts, I'm really blown away by the quality of Tidal through the Pure i-20 Coaxial Out - it's indistinguishable from 44/16 WAV or FLACs that I've compared, and I enjoy working my way through their playlists to find popular tracks across different genres, marking favorites, exploring the albums they come from, etc.  I'm so busy exploring music, I sometimes have to tell myself to take a break and just shuffle through the favorites I've accumulated thus far.  Tidal has completely changed the way I listen to music. I'm thinking I should hurry up and cell my CDs before nobody wants them.
  
 Mike


----------



## Nudel

reemo said:


> I washed my earpads in the washing machine and i didnt use any washing detergent so they left a little sticky from sweat, gonna wash them again with some. Been using my HD800 daily like 8-12 hours for two years, and they have seen a lot of action from games so they have quite a bit of sweat in them, im gonna replace them soon but first well see how the new wash goes. I don't have any wear on the pads. I have broken cable from the connector probably because of the user not using them with silk gloves. Some paint have been chipped away also. They have been dropped couple of times and i still feel these are in proper use undestructable versus headphones made with plastic.
> 
> I ordered new cables and deciding what to buy and waiting the order it took like 3 months without the use of my HD800. Now that i have balanced setup im in love again. These are just amazing considering comfort and the sound is clear and euforic. With these i have started to listen different styles of music in would never thought i would listen.


 
  
 Well I'm also didn't expect from myself to listen to so many different music styles, but... These headphones just have this magic factor which invite you to seat, relax and enjoy the music for long, long time...


----------



## Souljacker

Which combo would you buy for only the HD800!
 Does the $1297 option have a substantial difference over the $317?
  
*$317*
 Wyrd > Modi > Vali
  
*$547*
 Wyrd > Modi > Valhalla 2
  
*$737*
 Wyrd > Bifrost Uber > Vali
  
*$967*
 Wyrd > Bifrost Uber > Valhalla 2
  
*$1067*
 Wyrd > Gungnir > Vali
  
*$1297*
 Wyrd > Gungnir > Valhalla 2


----------



## ubs28

Anyone has an idea how much better the Chord Hugo + HDVD 600 + CH 800S (high end cable) + HD800 will sound over the Chord Hugo + HD800? 
  
 If it's only a minor upgrade in sound for $2000, I'll pass the upgrade.


----------



## sujitsky

Hello!! 
  
 Is the Audeze rugged/wooden case a good fit for the HD800? I was looking at the hippocase but at its current Amazon price, I would prefer something better for protection. Thanks!


----------



## DarrenLays

ubs28 said:


> Anyone has an idea how much better the Chord Hugo + HDVD 600 + CH 800S (high end cable) + HD800 will sound over the Chord Hugo + HD800?
> 
> If it's only a minor upgrade in sound for $2000, I'll pass the upgrade.


 
  
  
 IMHO at this level of "fidelty" changes are usually minor and never substantial unless the thing you're switching from has some issues of some sort.


----------



## RRod

souljacker said:


> Which combo would you buy for only the HD800!
> Does the $1297 option have a substantial difference over the $317?
> 
> *$317*
> ...


 
  
 Modi + Magni or Vali is enough. Why the Wyrd?


----------



## 62ohm

rrod said:


> Modi + Magni or Vali is enough. Why the Wyrd?


 
  
 I had the Magni/Modi paired with HD800 before. Not recommended.


----------



## RRod

62ohm said:


> I had the Magni/Modi paired with HD800 before. Not recommended.


 
  
 To each his own. I don't hear anything on my over-specced home rig that I couldn't get out my Magni/Modi.


----------



## citraian

Magni/Modi is way far from what these headphones can offer


----------



## RRod

citraian said:


> Magni/Modi is way far from what these headphones can offer


 
  
 HD800's THD+N is way over either of them, and the Magni can drive them to at least 115dB. But I know where this ship will go in this thread ^_^


----------



## johnjen

souljacker said:


> Which combo would you buy for only the HD800!
> Does the $1297 option have a substantial difference over the $317?
> 
> *$317*
> ...


 
  
 Since 800's are VERY revealing, the better the signal you feed them, the better the results will be.
  
 That being said matching up the sonic signature of the amp/dac to the 800's and to your taste is going to be the final arbiter.
  
 And since 800's are a high impedance load, I'd opt for moar power and as 'good' a dac as you can afford.  Which is another way of saying "the better the signal you feed them, the better the results will be".
  
 JJ


----------



## Buddhahacker

souljacker said:


> Which combo would you buy for only the HD800!
> Does the $1297 option have a substantial difference over the $317?
> 
> *$317*
> ...


 
 I have the Bifrost Uber > Valhalla 2 combination with my HD800s and it sounds great!


----------



## gcj2

What amp would you choose for HD800 out of the of the following:  DNA Sonett 2, Apex Audio Peak or Dragon Inspire IHA-1. All three amps are roughly the same price. If there is an amp under $2000 that you like better than the ones listed above please respond.


----------



## sunwolf

Are the ODAC+O2 amp expensive enough to drive these?


----------



## RRod

sunwolf said:


> Are the ODAC+O2 amp expensive enough to drive these?


 
  
 No, must be more expensiver!!


----------



## screwdriver

the valhalla 2 pairs well with the hd800 , and the decware csp3 or csp2+ amp/preamp are excellent with holographic sound if u use front tube with ediswans or telefunken


----------



## Zoom25

zilch0md said:


> ^ Thanks Zoom25.
> 
> Pure doesn't make a Lightning version of the i-20 (why not?) and I don't have a 30-pin -to- Lightning adapter, although I've seen them on Amazon. My iPad Mini uses a Lightning connector, but I like using the iPad 3 for streaming music this way - having brought it back into service, so to speak, thanks to Tidal. The Retina display is nice, but the larger size of the iPad 3 makes it better in this role than the iPad Mini, because I can read all the text and navigate well, almost at arm's length - without having to move the iPad. And unlike some other iDevice -to-SPDIF converters out there, the Pure i-20 can charge a 30-pin iDevice while it's playing.  The marble slab (or some other heavy ballast) is a must for stability with the fullsize iPad.. Unfortunately, the rubber sole of the i-20 resists every type of adhesive I've tried.  Nothing sticks to it.  So, rubber bands it is...
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the feedback. Having the same experience as you with the streaming services. It's such a positive difference. No more worrying about downloading music and worrying about file formats and continuos storage and backing. It's finally back to the music. I've been limited to Spotify for the moment as still no Tidal or Qobuz in Canada. Although the posted playlists and discovery methods are great. It seems Tidal is working out nicely for you in the same manner.
  
 I also share your sentiment about having a bigger screen. Unfortunately both my iPad and iPhone 6+ have lightning dock. Only my ancient 3rd generation iPod has 30 pin, but it's been limited to iOS5. Also, the screen is just too small. I've been hearing mixed results on the 30 pin to lightning adapter working successfully with the i20.
  
 Will note the rubber band idea for future


----------



## Currawong

sunwolf said:


> Are the ODAC+O2 amp expensive enough to drive these?


 
  
 What is your aim? What music do you like? How loud do you listen? 
  
 There was a member who bought a pair who only listened at <70dB to avoid hearing damage at all costs, and only used his phone and was perfectly happy. 
  
 If you are playing high-quality orchestral works and want to make out the individual violins at higher volumes, then better gear will help with that.


----------



## DarrenLays

currawong said:


> What is your aim? What music do you like? How loud do you listen?
> 
> There was a member who bought a pair who only listened at <70dB to avoid hearing damage at all costs, and only used his phone and was perfectly happy.
> 
> If you are playing high-quality orchestral works and want to make out the individual violins at higher volumes, then better gear will help with that.





A buddy of mine did this math a while back for the hd800 off the o2:

Data from Inner Fidelity:
Sensitivity: 102.3 db/Vrms
Lowest impedance: 345 Ω (No, I'm not willing to round down 45 Ω like Sennheiser lolz)

110db:
16.2 mw
2.4v

115db:
51.3mw
4.3v

120db:
162.2mw
7.67v

Lolz.
You can drive O2 to 119db without clipping, no problem, with a large margin left to go. But it can't do 120db without possibly clipping. :lol: Each extra db is that many times more difficult to drive...


----------



## johnjen

gcj2 said:


> What amp would you choose for HD800 out of the of the following:  DNA Sonett 2, Apex Audio Peak or Dragon Inspire IHA-1. All three amps are roughly the same price. If there is an amp under $2000 that you like better than the ones listed above please respond.


 
  
 I haven't heard any of those amps.
 And if only tubes may apply…
  
 Never mind…
  
 BUT for $1700, the Ragnarok is an excellent matchup with the 800's.
  
 Just say'n, is all…
  
 What DAC are you running?
  
 JJ


----------



## Sorrodje

The Sonett 2 is good, smooth and matches very well with the hd800. Not heard the other amps.


----------



## DarrenLays

Got my frequency response from Senn, seems less bright than other's I've seen, will post a pic later


----------



## RRod

darrenlays said:


> A buddy of mine did this math a while back for the hd800 off the o2:
> …
> You can drive O2 to 119db without clipping, no problem, with a large margin left to go. But it can't do 120db without possibly clipping. :lol: Each extra db is that many times more difficult to drive...


 
  
 1.122 times as diﬀicult.


----------



## Currawong

There is a reason for gross overkill in amp design, it should be noted. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Actually, a Geek Out with the HD-800s is a surprisingly good match if something relatively inexpensive is desired and wasn't designed with vast corners cut to keep it inexpensive.


----------



## zilch0md

zoom25 said:


> I've been hearing mixed results on the 30 pin to lightning adapter working successfully with the [Pure] i-20.


 
  
 Thanks for the warning - I think I'll skip that experiment.


----------



## SilentFrequency

Is it true that the hd800's sound their best using Sennheiser amplifiers?

I currently have a hi Fi m8 and listen to quite a wide range of music genres so it's hard to give a specific music genre really but if I had to give just one Id say it was pop.

I totally get that the hd800's are a totally well regarded headphone and I think so too, just I'm intrigued to know whether a "better" amplifier to the one I'm currently using would make much of a difference 

Thanks,

SF


----------



## RRod

silentfrequency said:


> Is it true that the hd800's sound their best using Sennheiser amplifiers?
> 
> I currently have a hi Fi m8 and listen to quite a wide range of music genres so it's hard to give a specific music genre really but if I had to give just one Id say it was pop.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Headphones sound their best when the output impedance of the amp is low enough and the amp can deliver enough juice to drive them to the volume levels at which you listen. After that, the work of the amp is done and the rest is on the design of the headphone, which is the complicated part. The m8 is low on specs so it's hard to say exactly how well it will drive the HD800s. The audiobot site estimates 114dB, which would be enough, but the estimate could be off. In your case it might be worth A/Bing another amp to see if you can hear any differences.


----------



## longbowbbs

currawong said:


> There is a reason for gross overkill in amp design, it should be noted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1 to that. The GO1000 does a nice job with the 800's


----------



## SilentFrequency

rrod said:


> Headphones sound their best when the output impedance of the amp is low enough and the amp can deliver enough juice to drive them to the volume levels at which you listen. After that, the work of the amp is done and the rest is on the design of the headphone, which is the complicated part. The m8 is low on specs so it's hard to say exactly how well it will drive the HD800s. The audiobot site estimates 114dB, which would be enough, but the estimate could be off. In your case it might be worth A/Bing another amp to see if you can hear any differences.




Thanks!


----------



## Khragon

How do you get FR graph for your HD800?  which email should use to request my own?


----------



## skeptic

rrod said:


> Headphones sound their best when the output impedance of the amp is low enough and the amp can deliver enough juice to drive them to the volume levels at which you listen. After that, the work of the amp is done and the rest is on the design of the headphone, which is the complicated part. The m8 is low on specs so it's hard to say exactly how well it will drive the HD800s. The audiobot site estimates 114dB, which would be enough, but the estimate could be off. In your case it might be worth A/Bing another amp to see if you can hear any differences.


 
  
 That's one school of thought, but due to the hd800's uneven impedance curve, it is also the case that the hd800's sound less full with very low impedance amps.  Members have measured and charted how mid-bass in these phones in particular increases as amp output impedance goes up, albeit at the cost of bass tightness.  So in addition to power requirements, bass damping vs. bloom is the other key consideration with respect to output impedance.  Try running 15 ohm phones out of an OTL tube amp and this will become immediately apparent - anemic sound mixed with flabby bass.
  
 Since hd800's are high impedance phones, Senn designed its own SS amps with a 42 ohm output which fattens up the hd800's a bit, and a lot of people like that sound - or, similarly, the sound of high(ish) ohm tube amps.  To this same end, there's also an interesting thread where people discuss diy'ing 42 ohm impedance adapters to use with their gsx's to mimic the Senn amp's output impedance. This is where personal preference plays in.  Personally, I like the lower impedance (nominal 16 ohm, but actually single digit) output on my mainline better than the higher 32 ohm setting.  That said, the 120 ohm output on my crack is far more pleasing to me than the 0 ohm output on my 02 (modded with agdr's 3.0 booster).  Fwiw, I do like the 02 with many of my lower impedance phones but don't care for it at all with Senn hd800's/hd650's.


----------



## RRod

khragon said:


> How do you get FR graph for your HD800?  which email should use to request my own?


 
  
 I registered here:
 http://en-de.sennheiser.com/
  
 There's a checkbox asking if you want the graph; if you say yes, you'll get it emailed to you about a week later.


----------



## RRod

skeptic said:


> That's one school of thought, but due to the hd800's uneven impedance curve, it is also the case that the hd800's sound less full with very low impedance amps.  Members have measured and charted how mid-bass in these phones in particular increases as amp output impedance goes up, albeit at the cost of bass tightness.  So in addition to power requirements, bass damping vs. bloom is the other key consideration with respect to output impedance.  Try running 15 ohm phones out of an OTL tube amp and this will become immediately apparent - anemic sound mixed with flabby bass.
> 
> Since hd800's are high impedance phones, Senn designed its own SS amps with a 42 ohm output which fattens up the hd800's a bit, and a lot of people like that sound - or, similarly, the sound of high(ish) ohm tube amps.  To this same end, there's also an interesting thread where people discuss diy'ing 42 ohm impedance adapters to use with their gsx's to mimic the Senn amp's output impedance. This is where personal preference plays in.  Personally, I like the lower impedance (nominal 16 ohm, but actually single digit) output on my mainline better than the higher 32 ohm setting.  That said, the 120 ohm output on my crack is far more pleasing to me than the 0 ohm output on my 02 (modded with agdr's 3.0 booster).  Fwiw, I do like the 02 with many of my lower impedance phones but don't care for it at all with Senn hd800's/hd650's.


 
  
 Yes you can certainly modify response characteristics by manipulating the output impedance and by using tubes to add harmonics, but now we're into the subjective realm of "does this sound better to me" rather than "can this amp drive these headphones." The min. impedance of the HD800 lets you play with the output impedance a good bit, but honestly I find the simpler (and more adaptable) solution is to get a low-output-impedance amp with enough power, then use EQ to match the response I want.


----------



## Sorrodje

rrod said:


> Yes you can certainly modify response characteristics by manipulating the output impedance and by using tubes to add harmonics, but now we're into the subjective realm of "does this sound better to me" rather than "can this amp drive these headphones." The min. impedance of the HD800 lets you play with the output impedance a good bit, but honestly I find the simpler (and more adaptable) solution is to get a low-output-impedance amp with enough power, then use EQ to match the response I want.


 
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/musings-headphone-amplifier-output-impedance


----------



## StefanJK

Got my HD800 today, I've been listening for about a half hour.  Unlike my experience with the LCD-X, I'm happy off the bat.  For one, they are comfortable and light.  Very clean sound.  Was intimidated by the HD800 reputation for being difficult...on the Rag they are smooth, no glare that I've heard yet.  But I need time to judge...


----------



## preproman

stefanjk said:


> Got my HD800 today, I've been listening for about a half hour.  Unlike my experience with the LCD-X, I'm happy off the bat.  For one, they are comfortable and light.  Very clean sound.  Was intimidated by the HD800 reputation for being difficult...on the Rag they are smooth, no glare that I've heard yet.  But I need time to judge...


 

 So you didn't like the LCD-X with the Rag?


----------



## StefanJK

preproman said:


> So you didn't like the LCD-X with the Rag?


 
 'Didn't like' may be too strong, but LCD-X on the Rag did leave me wanting more.  It seemed a bit imprecise and with excess reverb.  The LCD-X is much better (less muddy, more precise) on the Rag than on the Mjolnir though.  The HD800 seems cleaner.  I'll know more in a few days.


----------



## RRod

sorrodje said:


> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/musings-headphone-amplifier-output-impedance


 
  
 Seems like kind of wash article, and it seems very odd to recommend amps whose output impedance *exceeds* the headphones… Still, HD800 + low output imp. isn't much contested in the text.


----------



## MickeyVee

With really good, clean recordings, I can average 0.5 watts peaking out to 5 watts when some really good bass kicks in.. that's according to the meters on the McIntosh.  Can't hold it there for long (my ears can only handle 20 seconds at that volume) but love the headroom. The meters read between 5mw and .05 watts for most of my listening but can still peak to .5 watts or more with a good transient.
_The HD800 may not be that hard to drive but having the headroom and power in reserve for great dynamics is sublime._
  
 Quote:


darrenlays said:


> A buddy of mine did this math a while back for the hd800 off the o2:
> 
> Data from Inner Fidelity:
> Sensitivity: 102.3 db/Vrms
> ...


----------



## RRod

mickeyvee said:


>


 
  
 Having just retested my Magni with the HD800s, I never had to turn the pot up to more than 11:00 or so and that's with classical music. Seems like plenty of dynamic headroom.


----------



## cocolinho

souljacker said:


> Which combo would you buy for only the HD800!
> Does the $1297 option have a substantial difference over the $317?
> 
> *$317*
> ...


 

 I'm waiting for Sonority audio to get Valhalla 2 available and I'll buy wyrd+bifrost uber usb + Valhalla 2
 I had the chance to try Valhalla 2 + dacmagic and it was very good sounding!


----------



## cocolinho

longbowbbs said:


> +1 to that. The GO1000 does a nice job with the 800's


 

 +1 , that's what I said on GO1K thread couple of days ago. Still there is quite a big gap with a good desktop amp like Valhalla 2


cocolinho said:


> Otherwise, I was very satisfied with my combo GO1K+HD700 and I'm still surprised to hear how my GO1K drives my new HD800 with authority...
> I'll buy a stronger amp to pair with my HD800 to see how big is the difference but let me say that if I hear any good improvement, I'll be really satisfied by my new purchase!
> 
> This GO is incredible.


----------



## Sorrodje

You make me want this GO1000 for the on-the go use , guys. I would be really happy if this little thing could sound close ( aka lively, not dry or sterile  but not as refined as more high end suff) to something like a Modi/Vali.
  
 thoughts ?


----------



## 62ohm

sorrodje said:


> You make me want this GO1000 for the on-the go use , guys. I would be really happy if this little thing could sound close ( aka lively, not dry or sterile  but not as refined as more high end suff) to something like a Modi/Vali.
> 
> thoughts ?


 
  
 I would wait for consensus on the Schiit Fulla, but I too am really interested in the GO1000.


----------



## Sorrodje

62ohm said:


> I would wait for consensus on the Schiit Fulla, but I too am really interested in the GO1000.


 
  
 True. you're right and the volume pot of the Fulla is really appealing.  both can't sound worse that the Hugo for sure. (Yep I'm trolling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )


----------



## longbowbbs

sorrodje said:


> You make me want this GO1000 for the on-the go use , guys. I would be really happy if this little thing could sound close ( aka lively, not dry or sterile  but not as refined as more high end suff) to something like a Modi/Vali.
> 
> thoughts ?


 
 I have not heard the Modi/Vali combo. I do know two Mastering Engineers that are using the GO for their field use. Does that help?


----------



## Sorrodje

longbowbbs said:


> I have not heard the Modi/Vali combo. I do know two Mastering Engineers that are using the GO for their field use. Does that help?


 
  
 Not That Much . the GO 450 still not works with my Ubuntu. Game over here for the Geek Out family unfortunately.


----------



## longbowbbs

sorrodje said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I have not heard the Modi/Vali combo. I do know two Mastering Engineers that are using the GO for their field use. Does that help?
> ...


 
 Gotta love operating systems....


----------



## Sorrodje

longbowbbs said:


> Gotta love operating systems....


 
  
 I think it's more a GO firmware problem. The Issues have been reported on all OS. Maybe the GO 450 I have would work better with the last firmware...blablabla.  too much time of investigation for me . I much prefer  to listen to music than to googlelize the whole internet fo find a how-to for Linux. Bye bye Geek Out. Period. 
  
 There're a lot of other products that work perfectly out-of-the-box in the market. Even the Hugo works perfectly Out of the box.


----------



## Anda

sorrodje said:


> Not That Much . the GO 450 still not works with my Ubuntu. Game over here for the Geek Out family unfortunately.


 
  
 Their homepage says that Linux doesn't need drivers. Which USB receiver are they using?


----------



## Sorrodje

That's true. No external driver needed. ALSA works. Issues are elsewhere : the GO450 is always at max volume each time I plugged it and Pulseaudio ( Ubuntu sound mixer) seems to not be able to control the volume. Then I have to set the volume with Alsamixer before any listening. Seriously I can't live with that. Maybe some people can. Unfortunately not me.


----------



## RRod

sorrodje said:


> That's true. No external driver needed. ALSA works. Issues are elsewhere : the GO450 is always at max volume each time I plugged it and Pulseaudio ( Ubuntu sound mixer) seems to not be able to control the volume. Then I have to set the volume with Alsamixer before any listening. Seriously I can't live with that. Maybe some people can. Unfortunately not me.


 
  
 Are you using plain old Ubuntu volume control or pavucontrol?


----------



## Sorrodje

I set the volume with the sound menu in the top bar. But I think we're a bit off-topic   . The point is it's the first DAC/AMP I've ever met with so many problems and it pisses me off ; especially since it seems to sound good.


----------



## RRod

sorrodje said:


> I set the volume with the sound menu in the top bar. But I think we're a bit off-topic   . The point is it's the first DAC/AMP I've ever met with so many problems and it pisses me off ; especially since it seems to sound good.


 
  
 It's not off topic to get the dac/amp you want to use your HD800s with working. Open up Ubuntu Software Center and install "pavucontrol" (Pulse Audio Volume Controller). It lets you adjust individual volumes for each sound card and send programs to specific cards.


----------



## Sorrodje

Thks for the Tip RRod. Seems to work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  and then I'll be able to test safely (without any risk to be deafened in case of IEM use)  this GO450.
  
 EDIT : Bug isn't fixed in fact.


----------



## RRod

sorrodje said:


> Thks for the Tip RRod. Seems to work
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Excellent. I was going to mention how pulseaudio resamples hi-res content depending upon your settings, but I'll let you have fun first


----------



## Sorrodje

Finally the issue is the same. Max volume settled after reboot.  We should stop here .. definitely off topic  . i've modified my /etc/pulse/daemon.conf for upsampling all PCM to 24/88,1 since my Metrum NOS DAC seems to apppreciate that. thks


----------



## Arttt

Just saw someone saying on sound science forum that laptop headphone output is enough to drive hd800.
I posted that it's none sense, and that hd800 need an amp to be driven to its full potential.

Then people over there started to ask me for demonstrations and valid scientific proves that I hear difference between hd800 driving straight out laptop headphone output and hd800 driving by amp like Auralic taurus , otherwise my claim is unsubstantiated 

I laughed at it, made a few jokes and they called me a troll and asked me to leave sound science forum.

Are they deff? And what's up with this need to have frequency diagrams, specifications , lines and all the measurments, isn't it enough to plug hd800 to laptop headphone output and listen to the sound, then try hd800 on a decent amp and hear the difference?? 

Why make such a big focus on measurements and be proud of it , don't get it ...


Check it out http://www.head-fi.org/t/743123/a-question-that-needs-an-answer/75


----------



## BirdManOfCT

arttt said:


> Just saw someone saying on sound science forum that laptop headphone output is enough to drive hd800.
> I posted that it's none sense, and that hd800 need an amp to be driven to its full potential.
> 
> Then people over there started to ask me for demonstrations and valid scientific proves that I hear difference between hd800 driving straight out laptop headphone output and hd800 driving by amp like Auralic taurus , otherwise my claim is unsubstantiated
> ...


 

 Shoot, my iMac doesn't good well enough for me. Deaf might be putting it politely.


----------



## akhyar

arttt said:


> Just saw someone saying on sound science forum that laptop headphone output is enough to drive hd800.
> I posted that it's none sense, and that hd800 need an amp to be driven to its full potential.
> 
> Then people over there started to ask me for demonstrations and valid scientific proves that I hear difference between hd800 driving straight out laptop headphone output and hd800 driving by amp like Auralic taurus , otherwise my claim is unsubstantiated
> ...




Just ignore them.
As long as your ears can hear the difference, it's all that matters.


----------



## RRod

arttt said:


> Just saw someone saying on sound science forum that laptop headphone output is enough to drive hd800.
> I posted that it's none sense, and that hd800 need an amp to be driven to its full potential.
> 
> Then people over there started to ask me for demonstrations and valid scientific proves that I hear difference between hd800 driving straight out laptop headphone output and hd800 driving by amp like Auralic taurus , otherwise my claim is unsubstantiated
> ...


 
  
 Plug your HD800s into your laptop and see how high you have to put the volume. If the answer is "not all the way up", then it can drive the headphones. Whether you like the sound signature (vs. say a tube amp) is another question entirely.


----------



## drez

arttt said:


> Just saw someone saying on sound science forum that laptop headphone output is enough to drive hd800.
> I posted that it's none sense, and that hd800 need an amp to be driven to its full potential.
> 
> Then people over there started to ask me for demonstrations and valid scientific proves that I hear difference between hd800 driving straight out laptop headphone output and hd800 driving by amp like Auralic taurus , otherwise my claim is unsubstantiated
> ...


 
  
 HD800 from a laptop sounds surpassingly OK.  The music is all there, just there is no dynamic contrast, separation etc. etc.
  
 Unless they know what they are meant to be hearing, they probably won't miss it…


----------



## MickeyVee

Believe your ears, not the science. Enjoy the music, not the math.  Numbers do translate to emotion.  There is no equation that determines the best sound of the HD800, or any headphone, to you. Science will get you only so far. From a manufacturer POV, the rest is art, imagination, experience and interpretation.  This is why we have choice and that's a good thing.  These are the main reasons I stay away for the science part of it. However anyone enjoys the HD800 is up to them and not for us to judge. (_but we know better_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 Just my e=mc**2 worth.
  
*Edit:* Just an analogy.  I'm working on RAW photos in Lightroom 5 as I'm listening to my HD800.  I love Histograms and I love the science behind it.  I use the histogram to get me to a good base. The remainder of my editing is based on my vision of the picture as an artist and in the end, I'm not usually near the optimized histogram. Whatever, I love the end result.
 When it comes to amping the HD800, there are a lot of amps that have the 'right specs' but do not produce the magic I want.  Yes, I probably went overboard on my setup but I'm now at a place where the musical magic is there for me.  For others, it may be tubes, SS, cables, whatever. It's whatever works for you. Forget about the tech and enjoy the music.  Laptop output or O2, not so much for me. YMMV /end/rant/
  
  
 Quote:


arttt said:


> Just saw someone saying on sound science forum that laptop headphone output is enough to drive hd800.


----------



## Loquah

Hi all, just picked up a pair of HD800s so the battle's now on to see if they steal the throne from my Beyer T1s. So far things aren't looking good for the Beyers...


----------



## DarrenLays

arttt said:


> Just saw someone saying on sound science forum that laptop headphone output is enough to drive hd800.
> I posted that it's none sense, and that hd800 need an amp to be driven to its full potential.
> 
> Then people over there started to ask me for demonstrations and valid scientific proves that I hear difference between hd800 driving straight out laptop headphone output and hd800 driving by amp like Auralic taurus , otherwise my claim is unsubstantiated
> ...




I think it varies from device to device, some laptops and PC's have very good onboard sound, and some have extremely poor onboard sound. 

Going from my onboard on my PC to my schiit Lyr and separate dac with my hd800s there's almost no difference at all, but going from my moms PC's sound to my hd800s is very poor. 

I think it's really really dependant on the chip and quality of components on the motherboard. Newer motherboards tend to have a bit better quality than older products for sure. 

Hell my motherboard could drive my lcd2 to very loud levels, and it gets pretty dam loud with my hd800 as well. And both times I had a hard time diwguinishing the onboard from a dac with my Lyr.


----------



## johnjen

loquah said:


> Hi all, just picked up a pair of HD800s so the battle's now on to see if they steal the throne from my Beyer T1s. So far things aren't looking good for the Beyers...


 
  
 And know that if you're of a mind to, adding the anax mod to the 800's (or variations on that theme) will widen that gap even further.  :thumb
  
 JJ


----------



## PleasantSounds

loquah said:


> Hi all, just picked up a pair of HD800s so the battle's now on to see if they steal the throne from my Beyer T1s. So far things aren't looking good for the Beyers...


 
  
 Good to see that you've joined the HD800 crowd. Hopefully it will be a keeper.


----------



## soullinker20

have ABed these with lcd 3f and abyss sometime... i think it's still hd800 for me


----------



## FlySweep

Second time owning the HD800.. oh how I missed it.  Silky smooth freq response.. effortless precision when it comes to imaging and staging.. resolving ability that sounds so natural and fluid.. and eye popping speed, to boot.. it never ceases to amaze.  I love this phone.


----------



## johnjen

And when suitably tweaked, and fed, thunderous bass.
  
 8 - 50KHz is the Freq response as listed in Sennheiser's literature.
  
 IOW they are capable of subsonic bass, and I can attest that when/if you do hear it, you'll not likely forget it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 JJ  :thumb


----------



## whirlwind

mickeyvee said:


> Believe your ears, not the science. Enjoy the music, not the math.  Numbers do translate to emotion.  There is no equation that determines the best sound of the HD800, or any headphone, to you. Science will get you only so far. From a manufacturer POV, the rest is art, imagination, experience and interpretation.  This is why we have choice and that's a good thing.  These are the main reasons I stay away for the science part of it. However anyone enjoys the HD800 is up to them and not for us to judge. (_but we know better_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Very well said, MickeyVee


----------



## SilentFrequency

arttt said:


> Just saw someone saying on sound science forum that laptop headphone output is enough to drive hd800.
> I posted that it's none sense, and that hd800 need an amp to be driven to its full potential.
> 
> Then people over there started to ask me for demonstrations and valid scientific proves that I hear difference between hd800 driving straight out laptop headphone output and hd800 driving by amp like Auralic taurus , otherwise my claim is unsubstantiated
> ...




The discussion you refer to actually started at below link (page 3 of thread)

http://www.head-fi.org/t/743123/a-question-that-needs-an-answer/30

I think the reason the Sound Science focus on measurements is simply due to it being the Sound Science section which by name is self explanatory.

As a owner of the hd800 I find this thread useful and informative as I also find the Sound Science thread also and both have experienced members that contribute within.

I think you may have maybe been accused of trolling in the Sound Science thread once you used terms like "fool" and "ignorant".

I'm honestly not looking to "bash" you Arttt, just maybe trying to suggest why you were received the way you were on the said thread in Sound Science section.


----------



## DarrenLays

Eq'ing everything but the bass down -6 db and having fun with some rap music, haha.
  
 dat bass tho!


----------



## SilentFrequency

darrenlays said:


> Eq'ing everything but the bass down -6 db and having fun with some rap music, haha.
> 
> dat bass tho!




Eminem sounds totally amazing on the hd800's!

His new album ShadyXV with other artists is very good from what I've heard of it so far off friends iPod.

Rap/hip-hop is not really the type of music I would usually listen to, but I've found myself listening to so much other genres than I would usually since I got my hd800's


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Can someone who has both the HD800 and the new Hifiman HE560 do a comparative impression or review of these two?  

 Thanks.


----------



## SilentFrequency

sp3llv3xit said:


> Can someone who has both the HD800 and the new Hifiman HE560 do a comparative impression or review of these two?
> 
> 
> Thanks.




Maybe Brooko could do one as he does comparison reviews like his recent T1 v k812?


----------



## FlySweep

sp3llv3xit said:


> Can someone who has both the HD800 and the new Hifiman HE560 do a comparative impression or review of these two?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 Is there something specific you were interested in?  I have both.. love both of them.. the HD800 is the more technically proficient of the two.. but the 560 is mighty impressive.. and tends to get just about as much time on my head as the HD800.. the 560 has a slightly softer attack and a less expansive soundstage (upstream equipment matters here).. but I don't find it lacking at all.


----------



## traehekat

flysweep said:


> Is there something specific you were interested in?  I have both.. love both of them.. the HD800 is the more technically proficient of the two.. but the 560 is mighty impressive.. and tends to get just about as much time on my head as the HD800.. the 560 has a slightly softer attack and a less expansive soundstage (upstream equipment matters here).. but I don't find it lacking at all.


 
 I see you have the 650 as well. I am interested in upgrading from the 650, and I'm considering both the 800 and HE 560. Can you do a comparison between the two vis a vis the 650, e.g., which of the two is closer in sound signature to the 650?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## skeptic

loquah said:


> Hi all, just picked up a pair of HD800s so the battle's now on to see if they steal the throne from my Beyer T1s. So far things aren't looking good for the Beyers...


 
  
 Welcome to the fray loquah!  No doubt about it, hd800's driven by a mainline are really hard to beat.  Just a beautiful combo.


----------



## FlySweep

traehekat said:


> I see you have the 650 as well. I am interested in upgrading from the 650, and I'm considering both the 800 and HE 560. Can you do a comparison between the two vis a vis the 650, e.g., which of the two is closer in sound signature to the 650?
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 The 560 is closer to the HD650 in terms of attack.. both have a softer, 'fluffier' quality compared to the sharper, more deliberate nature of the HD800 (again, upstream gear is very important for the HD800).  What you pair the HD800 with matters almost as much as the HD800 itself.. the HD650/HE-560?  Not *as* much (but still quite important, IME).  The 560 is a little more laid back like the 650, as well.. more so than HD800.. but I find the HD800 to possess a beguiling degree of silky smoothness.
  
 What qualities do you want to preserve in the 650's sound/voicing when moving up to the HD800 or HE-560?


----------



## Loquah

Thanks skeptic! I'm loving it so far, but the 800s have me contemplating another cap upgrade in the Mainline to open the soundstage a touch more... will it ever end?


----------



## sp3llv3xit

flysweep said:


> Is there something specific you were interested in?  I have both.. love both of them.. the HD800 is the more technically proficient of the two.. but the 560 is mighty impressive.. and tends to get just about as much time on my head as the HD800.. the 560 has a slightly softer attack and a less expansive soundstage (upstream equipment matters here).. but I don't find it lacking at all.


 



 Thank you, FlySweep.  How does the 560 compare to the 800 in terms of treble presentation?  If the 560 has a softer attack, does it also have lesser or smaller bass output?


----------



## sp3llv3xit

flysweep said:


> The 560 is closer to the HD650 in terms of attack.. both have a softer, 'fluffier' quality compared to the sharper, more deliberate nature of the HD800 (again, upstream gear is very important for the HD800).  What you pair the HD800 with matters almost as much as the HD800 itself.. the HD650/HE-560?  Not *as* much (but still quite important, IME).  The 560 is a little more laid back like the 650, as well.. more so than HD800.. but I find the HD800 to possess a beguiling degree of silky smoothness.
> 
> What qualities do you want to preserve in the 650's sound/voicing when moving up to the HD800 or HE-560?


 



 The HD650?  Ugh! I hate it.  I got suspended for likening someone's HD650 as a pair of old Sansui speakers covered with damp towels.  

 I guess, I'm going to skip it if the HE560 sounds close to the HD650!


----------



## MattTCG

sp3llv3xit said:


> Thank you, FlySweep.  How does the 560 compare to the 800 in terms of treble presentation?  If the 560 has a softer attack, does it also have lesser or smaller bass output?


 
  
 Not to answer for Fly, but I've had these two for a few weeks. The treble extension is much better on the hd800...more natural and better speed. The he560 is peaky in the treble but the presentation is warmer overall than the hd800. FWIW I ended up keeping the hd800.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

matttcg said:


> Not to answer for Fly, but I've had these two for a few weeks. The treble extension is much better on the hd800...more natural and better speed. The he560 is peaky in the treble but the presentation is warmer overall than the hd800. FWIW I ended up keeping the hd800.


 



 Thanks, Matt.  I guess the 560 is closer to the HD650 as FlySweep says, huh?  My long time buddy in this hobby told me that the HE560 is like the HD800 of planars.  That got me interested.


----------



## MattTCG

The he560 is a very good headphone for sure. It also responded well to simple mods (grill). I don't get the direct comparison to the hd800 though.


----------



## MickeyVee

Not a comparative review but I sold off the HE560 after two months. Not close enough to the HD800 nor different enough to really enjoy them.  I put aside the HD800 for the first month and when they went back into my rotation, they were always my first choice. At this point, from memory, the HE560 are about 85-90% of the HD800 with 70% of the soundstage.  Every aspect was just a little less than the HD800.  Not enough to compliment them and not different enough to give another type of sound (though the HE400i may do that for me). If I didn't have and love the HD800, the HE560 would definitely have been keepers. 
  
 Edit: agree with the Matt's treble comments and I find bass not as deep or tight
  
  
 Quote:


sp3llv3xit said:


> Can someone who has both the HD800 and the new Hifiman HE560 do a comparative impression or review of these two?
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

mickeyvee said:


>


 



 Thank you, MickeyVee.  I think I'll pass this opportunity to get the HE560 blind.  

 That said, does anyone here have an experience in pairing the HD800 with the ALO Reference 16 cable?


----------



## MattTCG

sp3llv3xit said:


> Thank you, MickeyVee.  I think I'll pass this opportunity to get the HE560 blind.
> 
> That said, does anyone here have an experience in pairing the HD800 with the ALO Reference 16 cable?


 
  
 Check with Cute. I think that he paired that cable with the hd800...pretty sure.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

matttcg said:


> Check with Cute. I think that he paired that cable with the hd800...pretty sure.


 



 Will do. Thanks.


----------



## skeptic

sp3llv3xit said:


> Thank you, MickeyVee.  I think I'll pass this opportunity to get the HE560 blind.
> 
> That said, does anyone here have an experience in pairing the HD800 with the ALO Reference 16 cable?


 
  
 One thing to bear in mind with some of these cables is that the heavy gage may exceed what can actually be attached to the tiny pins inside the hd800's connectors.  Some folks clearly like exotic cables regardless.  Others, and even some MOT's, have called into question whether it makes sense to spend big money on a cable when at least certain of the wires are never physically making the connection with your phones under the heatshrink.  Food for thought and all that.  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/467620/hd800-connectors-are-you-kidding-me/15#post_6331412
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/4830#post_9716033


----------



## MattTCG

I believe that the hd800 connectors are offered in standard and "jumbo" sizes. FYI


----------



## Dopaminer

matttcg said:


> I believe that the hd800 connectors are offered in standard and "jumbo" sizes. FYI


 

 Yeah, there were some `jumbos` for sale here on H-fi a while back, right?  
 I`m going to build my own HD800 cable next month.   And I`ve been trying to find these `long` Oyaide HD800 connectors here in Japan, but they seemed have crossed over into the world of myth . . .


----------



## sp3llv3xit

skeptic said:


> One thing to bear in mind with some of these cables is that the heavy gage may exceed what can actually be attached to the tiny pins inside the hd800's connectors.  Some folks clearly like exotic cables regardless.  Others, and even some MOT's, have called into question whether it makes sense to spend big money on a cable when at least certain of the wires are never physically making the connection with your phones under the heatshrink.  Food for thought and all that.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/467620/hd800-connectors-are-you-kidding-me/15#post_6331412
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/4830#post_9716033





Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

dopaminer said:


> Yeah, there were some `jumbos` for sale here on H-fi a while back, right?
> I`m going to build my own HD800 cable next month.   And I`ve been trying to find these `long` Oyaide HD800 connectors here in Japan, but they seemed have crossed over into the world of myth . . .





Who made those cables?


----------



## Folex

Does Sennheiser make a stock 3.5mm cable ?


----------



## Dopaminer

sp3llv3xit said:


> Who made those cables?


 

 They`re made by Oyaide, the cable/connector company.  If you scroll down this page, you can see lots of versions . . . . 
  
 http://www.oyaide.com/audiomijinko.html


----------



## traehekat

Anyone have experience using the HD800 with the Valhalla 2?


----------



## BirdManOfCT

drez said:


> HD800 from a laptop sounds surpassingly OK.  The music is all there, just there is no dynamic contrast, separation etc. etc.
> 
> Unless they know what they are meant to be hearing, they probably won't miss it…


 

 Good point. I compare to my previous high-end speaker system so have a good idea of what I'm expecting.


----------



## traehekat

flysweep said:


> The 560 is closer to the HD650 in terms of attack.. both have a softer, 'fluffier' quality compared to the sharper, more deliberate nature of the HD800 (again, upstream gear is very important for the HD800).  What you pair the HD800 with matters almost as much as the HD800 itself.. the HD650/HE-560?  Not *as* much (but still quite important, IME).  The 560 is a little more laid back like the 650, as well.. more so than HD800.. but I find the HD800 to possess a beguiling degree of silky smoothness.
> 
> What qualities do you want to preserve in the 650's sound/voicing when moving up to the HD800 or HE-560?


 

 Well, I like the warmth and smoothness of the HD650. I like that I can listen to them for hours at average to high listening levels without much fatigue.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

dopaminer said:


> They`re made by Oyaide, the cable/connector company.  If you scroll down this page, you can see lots of versions . . . .
> 
> http://www.oyaide.com/audiomijinko.html


 
  
  
 Thanks!


----------



## citraian

traehekat said:


> Well, I like the warmth and smoothness of the HD650. I like that I can listen to them for hours at average to high listening levels without much fatigue.



HE560 and HD800 are kind of far from the HD650 sound. If less to none fatigue is what you want then you might want to take a look at the LCD-2s and why not the LCD-3s.


----------



## Chodi

traehekat said:


> Well, I like the warmth and smoothness of the HD650. I like that I can listen to them for hours at average to high listening levels without much fatigue.


 
 Honestly if you like the sound of the 650 but want a change of pace that will give you that same warm feeling then go for the HE500. You can still get them new for a good discount and there are many available used for even less. If you can handle the weight they are the least fatiguing headphones I have ever owned. They also are very good sounding headphones with that special ortho sound that is very magical. The new 560 is nothing like the HE500 and to my mind that's a shame. They had a signature sound with those 500's that I will miss. The weight was just too much for me. If you have a strong neck go for it.


----------



## Viper2005

chodi said:


> Honestly if you like the sound of the 650 but want a change of pace that will give you that same warm feeling then go for the HE500. You can still get them new for a good discount and there are many available used for even less. If you can handle the weight they are the least fatiguing headphones I have ever owned. They also are very good sounding headphones with that special ortho sound that is very magical. The new 560 is nothing like the HE500 and to my mind that's a shame. They had a signature sound with those 500's that I will miss. The weight was just too much for me. If you have a strong neck go for it.




Alternatively, the HE400i is quite similar to the 650, and is even more smoother than the HE500. Completely non fatigueing, supremely comfortable and lightweight. Definately worth checking out..


----------



## shabta

I had the HD650 for years before getting the HD800. Yes the HD650 is warmer, but it is an artificial warmth. I don't find the HD800 more fatiguing than the HD650. I can and do listen to the HD800 for hours on end. 
  
 In exchange for the HD650s warmth, you get detail in spades from the HD800: Clarity, air and a spaciousness that is almost like listening to speakers. Well worth the trade...


----------



## nigeljames

shabta said:


> I had the HD650 for years before getting the HD800. Yes the HD650 is warmer, but it is an artificial warmth. I don't find the HD800 more fatiguing than the HD650. I can and do listen to the HD800 for hours on end.
> 
> In exchange for the HD650s warmth, you get detail in spades from the HD800: Clarity, air and a spaciousness that is almost like listening to speakers. Well worth the trade...


 
  
 + 1


----------



## Klots

Been visiting this thread for a few months and I can't take it anymore  Put my HD700 for sale and when they are sold I'll buy HD800. I ordered speedball + film output caps for my BH Crack (Siemens E80cc/Tung sol 5998). I have read that Crack pairs well with HD800. And at the moment I am happy with my Audiolab M-Dac too. So I can't wait


----------



## bargyu

Hi! This is my third post, so please read cautiously as it may contain serious faults. Previously, I wrote that generally I prefer my tube setup with a simply John Kenny Ciunas DAC vs HDVD-800 except for hd-audio and classical music. Recently, I upgraded my dac to the Calyx 24/192 (yes, I know there is their Femto product for $7k, but I like to go slowly  step-by-step). Generally, this dac resolves more detail and at the same time less harsh. The difference between the warm sound of my diy tube amp and the HDVD-800 shrank considerably. Basically, I know almost exclusively listen to the HDVD-800 and I dont find it analytical or fatiguing anymore. I thought this may be interesting for those looking for the best amp/dac combo as one view from an HD800 owner.
  
 I borrowed Nordost Valhalla in an attempt to go symmetric - I dont have the CH800S or other symmetric headphone cable, yet, so I use the stock jack one -, but found no difference from the Eccose Composer RCA or a cheap Audioquest Niagara RCA like copy from China or a simple studio XLR. I will return the Valhalla and maybe its not the cable's fault, but probably my system, especially without symmetric connection to the headphone, is not good enough to reveal the difference. I decided to ask a local specialist to make a very good quality XLR cable and also a headphone cable. Maybe this is a risky choice, but his XLR cables are selling for €800 used - €1200 new - and he says its not a big deal to make a better cable than the stock one, but its a challenge to make the best out of it. I will get it in January-February 2015, so looking forward, whether cables matter or not - at least in my system.
  
 Please feel free, if you have good or bad experience with the balanced mode or with aftermarket cables. As far as I read, Cardas and some others are regarded mostly as an upgrade, but the stock cable is also generally said to be good.


----------



## skeptic

sp3llv3xit said:


> Thanks for the heads up.


 
  
 No problem!  If you end up picking up one of those oyaide cables, let us know how you like it.  Certainly looks very.  I wonder if they offer a 4pin xlr option.


----------



## skeptic

shabta said:


> I had the HD650 for years before getting the HD800. Yes the HD650 is warmer, but it is an artificial warmth. I don't find the HD800 more fatiguing than the HD650. I can and do listen to the HD800 for hours on end.
> 
> In exchange for the HD650s warmth, you get detail in spades from the HD800: Clarity, air and a spaciousness that is almost like listening to speakers. Well worth the trade...


 
  
 To be fair though, you're listening on a Leben.  With a lot of amps, and even some OTL tube amps (the BH crack is one example), hd800's will still be slightly more fatiguing than hd650's (at equal loudness) simply because there is more treble.
  
 The mainline is like the Leben in this regard.  I pulled my anax mod and was delighted to find that I no longer had any listening fatigue with my hd800's, but I think it is reasonable for prospective buyers to dive in knowing that this may or may not be an issue for them.  Thankfully, the anax mod is a very very easy fix if fatigue does prove to be an issue.  Takes away a little of the hd800's air, but they still trounce the hd650's in every aspect of the sound.   
  
 Also, in response to other posts, I am among the group that does not find LCD-2's to be a clear upgrade from hd650's.  Better deep bass sure.  But I find instrument timbre and soundstage better on the hd650's, and then there is the weight/comfort issue.  Can't speak to LCD-3's.


----------



## analog'd

shabta said:


> I had the HD650 for years before getting the HD800. Yes the HD650 is warmer, but it is an artificial warmth. I don't find the HD800 more fatiguing than the HD650. I can and do listen to the HD800 for hours on end.
> 
> In exchange for the HD650s warmth, you get detail in spades from the HD800: Clarity, air and a spaciousness that is almost like listening to speakers. Well worth the trade...


 

 yes indeed!


----------



## shabta

skeptic said:


> To be fair though, you're listening on a Leben.  With a lot of amps, and even some OTL tube amps (the BH crack is one example), hd800's will still be slightly more fatiguing than hd650's (at equal loudness) simply because there is more treble.
> 
> The mainline is like the Leben in this regard.  I pulled my anax mod and was delighted to find that I no longer had any listening fatigue with my hd800's, but I think it is reasonable for prospective buyers to dive in knowing that this may or may not be an issue for them.  Thankfully, the anax mod is a very very easy fix if fatigue does prove to be an issue.  Takes away a little of the hd800's air, but they still trounce the hd650's in every aspect of the sound.
> 
> Also, in response to other posts, I am among the group that does not find LCD-2's to be a clear upgrade from hd650's.  Better deep bass sure.  But I find instrument timbre and soundstage better on the hd650's, and then there is the weight/comfort issue.  Can't speak to LCD-3's.


 
 Actually, you reminded me I need to change my sig. I sold the Leben, I am listening through the Lehmann BCL, I does have slightly more treble energy than the Leben, but also tighter Bass. An interesting compromise seems to be the vintage NAD 2150 power amp I have, which is a wee bit warmer than the Lehmann ( and doesn't have an L in its brand name unlike the other two amps). But it has a wee bit less air than the Lehmann. 
  
 Anyway, I don't find that the Lehmann makes it more fatiguing. It is possible that my aging hearing has lost enough of the highest end and that accounts for the fact that I don't ever find the HD800 treble annoying. Although I do find the treble on the T1s occaisionally annoying. But I digress. 
  
 I agree with you about the LCD-2's, completely.
  
 In general the Planar-Dynamic are "weigh too heavy" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 for me to wear comfortably for any length of time. Comfort issues aside (which I find insurmountable as I like to listen for hours at a time some days), while the LCD 3 Fazor has a great sound sig, I am still not willing to give up the imaging of the HD800...


----------



## cdsa35000

This is how HD800 was born from women:
[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5es8zggYM7A[/VIDEO]


----------



## cdsa35000

No, its the same old news but new to me.


----------



## newtoears

Hello! Wondering if anyone has tried the HD 800 with the new Soundblaster X7? It seems like quite an all in one device and priced very reasonably for its many functions  Currently I'm running my newly arrived HD 800 off a Fiio X3 and it sounds lovely as it is but I guess I'll need a "proper" amp anyway so I'm considering either the Valhalla 2 plus Modi or the SB X7 (for significantly less). Thanks for the advice!


----------



## Frank I

Listening to the HD800 on the Cavalli Liquid Gold balanced with a Nordost Heimdall cable. The synergy is excellent  with Tidal and really enjoying the combination. Fleetwood Mac sounds awesome.  Christine Mcvie's voice on Songbird is  stellar.  Glad she back.


----------



## longbowbbs

frank i said:


> Listening to the HD800 on the Cavalli Liquid Gold balanced with a Nordost Heimdall cable. The synergy is excellent  with Tidal and really enjoying the combination. Fleetwood Mac sounds awesome.  Christine Mcvie's voice on Songbird is  stellar.  Glad she back.


 
 Nice to see you slumming this evening Frank....


----------



## soullinker20

sp3llv3xit said:


> That said, does anyone here have an experience in pairing the HD800 with the ALO Reference 16 cable?




I did have achance to audition them but on a very short time, the sound became really thick just as I like coz the 800 sounded very thin to me but that was before i had the hugo

and the cable hasn`t been burned in yet
im not sure if i will still like it this time around but will audition it again


----------



## sp3llv3xit

soullinker20 said:


> I did have achance to audition them but on a very short time, the sound became really thick just as I like coz the 800 sounded very thin to me but that was before i had the hugo
> 
> and the cable hasn`t been burned in yet
> im not sure if i will still like it this time around but will audition it again


 



 Thanks.  I'll consider the added thickness.


----------



## JackWang

I have received new HD800 for a few days and basically I found the human voice is great and close to ear, even better than my B&W mm1 speakers and denon D7100, which is against the rumor that HD800 cant handle with human voice well. Also unbeatable symphony performance, highly recommended


----------



## GardenVariety

jackwang said:


> I have received new HD800 for a few days and basically I found the human voice is great and close to ear, even better than my B&W mm1 speakers and denon D7100, which is against the rumor that HD800 cant handle with human voice well. Also unbeatable symphony performance, highly recommended


 

 Not sure where you heard that rumor. To my ear, there is no finer reproduction aside from an electrostatic headphone costing twice as much.


----------



## shabta

gardenvariety said:


> Not sure where you heard that rumor. To my ear, there is no finer reproduction aside from an electrostatic headphone costing twice as much.


 
  
 +1
  
 Vocals are one place the HD800s especially shine.


----------



## whirlwind

To be honest, after owning this can for close to a year now.....In my experience, if the recording is good....this can sounds wonderful...with just everything that I listen too.

I bought the HD800 as a can to hold me over until the HE560 got sorted out by Hifiman......I kept the HD800 and have forgotten all about the HE560


----------



## Frank I

longbowbbs said:


> Nice to see you slumming this evening Frank....


 
 I found all the Reference Recordings on Tidal last night. The HD800 was very explosive listen to the Minnesota Orchestra  on RR label with the Liquid Gold. Words like speed, transparency and dynamics are what i would use to describe the sound coming out of the HD800 balanced on the Cavalli Masterpiece.


----------



## dxanex

whirlwind said:


> To be honest, after owning this can for close to a year now.....In my experience, if the recording is good....this can sounds wonderful...with just everything that I listen too.
> 
> I bought the HD800 as a can to hold me over until the HE560 got sorted out by Hifiman......I kept the HD800 and have forgotten all about the HE560


 

 I recently sent back a HE-560 demo that I was fortunate to hold on to for a couple of weeks. The HE-560 is a really special headphone, but at the end of the day I wasn't too terribly sad about sending them back once the HD 800 was put back on!


----------



## Sorrodje

dxanex said:


> I recently sent back a HE-560 demo that I was fortunate to hold on to for a couple of weeks. The HE-560 is a really special headphone, but at the end of the day I wasn't too terribly sad about sending them back once the HD 800 was put back on!


 
  
  
 I didn't notice you used a DNA Sonett 2 too. Happy with this amp for all you heaphones ?


----------



## dxanex

sorrodje said:


> I didn't notice you used a DNA Sonett 2 too. Happy with this amp for all you heaphones ?


 
  
 Very much so! It's the least "tubey" sounding of all my tube amps, but it's got just the perfect amount of smoothness and everything sounds very fleshed out and musical. Especially running the HD 800 balanced, loads of detail but still dynamic enough to get my head bobbing and toes tapping...plus the extra gain really adds a lot of meat to the low end.
  
 I suspect (and hope) this will be the last amp I purchase for quite a long time.


----------



## Sorrodje

The Sonett 2 could be my End game amp for the HD800 too. At least for a long time since I can only thought to the Eddie Current Balancing Act as a clear upgrade.  An ECBA would imply a full balanced system so  much more money.  Maybe when I'll older, richer and I'll have more room ... but right now, I've no need to change anything in my current HD800 system.


----------



## Folex

Could I ask someone to give me the dimensions of the sennheiser 800 pads? Thanks!


----------



## ubs28

I guess I'm the only one that finds the Sennheiser HD800 too heavy for long use? The Shure SRH 1840 is much lighter and comfortable for longer sessions.


----------



## rawrster

That's the first I've heard about the hd800. If those are too heavy forget about the other totl headphones in this price range.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

ubs28 said:


> I guess I'm the only one that finds the Sennheiser HD800 too heavy for long use? The Shure SRH 1840 is much lighter and comfortable for longer sessions.


 

 I wear mine for hours without a problem. I also have glasses, and they work well with them. I'm surprised how few people comment about glasses with any headphones. Occasionally I'll get a little rub sound from the pad moving against my frame.
  
 A long time ago, I used to lay down (e.g., outside) with headphones, but now it's always sitting up. The HD800 might slide a little when laying down, but I imagine they'd still be comfortable.


----------



## Folex

Despite the weight I thought the senn 800's were some of the most comfortable headphones. Their pressure points are different from most headphones. 
  
 I'd hate to see your reaction to LCD3s @ 660g. The senn 800's are only 330 with the shure 1840's at 264g.


----------



## lojay

shabta said:


> +1
> 
> Vocals are one place the HD800s especially shine.


 
  
 You might reconsider that view if you've heard the HE-6 properly driven and the SR009. I own all three headphones and have lived with them for about a year on TOTL amps, i.e. the Woo WA5 and EC 4-45. The HD800 shines for live instrumental recordings and depicts the soundstage with an uncanny naturalness and realism unparalleled by the SR009 and HE-6. Yet, even when modded, the HD800 lacks flesh, body and soul when it comes to vocals. 
  
 That being said, the HD800 is a fine contender for vocals - just not quite the top dog when it comes to that aspect.
  
 When unmodded and paired with solid state amps and delta-sigma DACs, some find the reproduction of vocals by the HD800 grainy or even sibilant. This can be remedied by the Anax mod, use of OCC copper cables, tube amping (the 4-45 is the best I've heard, so is the Teton I've read) and most importantly, the use of a smooth DAC (most likely an R2R DAC).
  


gardenvariety said:


> Not sure where you heard that rumor. To my ear, there is no finer reproduction aside from an electrostatic headphone costing twice as much.


 
  
 As above. Not a rumour, but pretty much a (relative) fact if you compare the HD800 to planars and electrostatics. The HD800 remains the best dynamic I've heard so far, though.


----------



## drez

Guess depends how you want vocals, HD800 doe a great job bringing out all the nuance and vocal inflections and do a great job with dynamic contrast.
  
 Haven't heard the HE-6 for a while, but a long time ago, I did find them more full bodied and present, but unable to convey delicacy.
  
 009 haven't had the pleasure of hearing in a while.  Priced out of my reach 
  
 I can relate to comments about grain - more likely this is coming from recording and DAC, and the amplifier and HD800 are just passing this along without smoothing over the graininess.  Still a downside for though as one can't really fix the recording.


----------



## GardenVariety

lojay said:


> As above. Not a rumour, but pretty much a (relative) fact if you compare the HD800 to planars and electrostatics. The HD800 remains the best dynamic I've heard so far, though.


 
  
 As I said in my quote, the HD800 clearly aren't as good as a pair of SR009's. I would argue that they compete nicely with planars.


----------



## kothganesh

gardenvariety said:


> As I said in my quote, the HD800 clearly aren't as good as a pair of SR009's. I would argue that they compete nicely with planars.


 

 GV,
  
 I own both now and have some decent amps for each. I am not going to use the word "clearly" (IMO of course). In fact, I am going to stick my neck out and say that there are times when the HD 800 is "top dawg". That's because I love the sound stage of the 800 so much and it is my opinion that the SR-009 is slightly smaller in comparison. 
  
 To be clear, I don't think there is a clear difference but the differences are a heck of a lot more subtle for me. I also happen to concur that the 800 is better than the planars except maybe the HE 6 well amped. Let the discussion begin


----------



## johnjen

Every type of (non IEM) headphone (planar, electrostatic, dynamic) has its strengths and weakenesses.
 These attributes are a result of the technology used and the limits of the design and type of 'motor' employed.
  
 We pick which set of these attributes we enjoy.
  
 Electrostatics are fast, really fast, (due to their light weight membrane) and due to the nature of the 'motor' involved which can kinda sorta 'tailor' the amount of surface area used, based upon the frequency they are fed.
 But they can't 'move air'.
 They simply don't have the range of excursion to make powerful bass with visceral impact.
 But they do have the harmonic relationships and cohesiveness that are its hallmarks.
  
 Planars are also fast and they can move air for good bass response but the whole membrane has to move as one, so some of the subtlties of the extreme high end are at a bit of a disadvantage compared to electrostactics.
 And if they have magnets on both sides of the diaphram, the sound must pass thru the physical structure that holds them in place on the head facing side.  This introduces a complex problem in that the wave front is 'broken up' and 'reassembled' before we hear it.
  
 And with single sided magnet planars the response of the diaphram tends to be 'non-linear' in that the magnetic field tends to loose strength as the diaphram moves away from the magnets.  This can be somewhat compensated by the design but it is an 'unbalanced' arrangement regardless.
  
 Dynamics have the heaviest diaphram so they tend to be detail limited in the high frequencies compared to the electrostatics.  And the ability to change directions quickly is also not as precise as the electrostatics.
 But they can move air because they do have a much greater excursion than either off the other 2 types.
 They also can deliver a 'unified' wave front like the electrostatics but unlike the dual sided magnet planars.
  
 When taken to the 'extremes' dynamics can provide the high freqency response we want which tends to close the gap between them and electrostatics.  
 And they can deliver the extreme low end bass response of the planars.
 Which puts them sorta right in the middle.
 Also (this is a bit of guess work here based upon past designs etc.) the design of the 800's dynamic driver, since it must be full range, seems to be designed to handle the extremes of the low frequencies vs the highs using different parts of the diaphram.  This is a purposeful 'trick' of the design and when dialed in yields the best of both worlds.
 I suspect that this is what makes the 800's driver deliver such a wide bandwidth, with the authority and delicacy we notice and delight in.
  
 When I had a new pair of LCD-x's here for evaluation, on my system the mids and top end were a bit 'veiled' in comparison to the 800's.  And while I could hear the bass impact, they bass lacked the definition and detail that I heard from the 800's.
  
 These traits can make the LCDx's an easier match up with a wider range of source equipment, which can be either a help or a hinderance depending upon what attributes one is seeking.
  
 And I must confess I have not heard the latest electrostatics but traditionally they have always been difficult to get the bass to match, to the same level of performance, as the rest of the audio spectrum at which they excel.
  
 Bottom line for me is 800's have 'enough' of the strengths to satisfy me, albeit at the expense of being 'picky' with what is fed to them, which is a characteristic they share with electrostatics.  Whereas planars can be much more 'forgiving' of source equipment.
  
 And yes there are exceptions to all of this.
  
 But when the electrostatics or the 800's are dialed in and fed an 'optimal' signal they will (or can) deliver astonishing results, and I like to think of the planars as 'fun'.  And for me fun only lasts a while, until I begin to miss the strengths of inner details and hearing into the music vs being presented with music to listen to. 
  
 But then those are the attritbutes I choose…
  
 JJ


----------



## lojay

kothganesh said:


> GV,
> 
> I own both now and have some decent amps for each. I am not going to use the word "clearly" (IMO of course). In fact, I am going to stick my neck out and say that there are times when the HD 800 is "top dawg". That's because I love the sound stage of the 800 so much and it is my opinion that the SR-009 is slightly smaller in comparison.
> 
> To be clear, I don't think there is a clear difference but the differences are a heck of a lot more subtle for me. I also happen to concur that the 800 is better than the planars except maybe the HE 6 well amped. Let the discussion begin


 
  
 Agreed. I like the HD800 better for large scale classical and live recordings in general where the atmosphere and staging is required


----------



## GardenVariety

I also have to point out that I use the Smyth Realiser for all my listening so it's incredibly specialized and biased. I've had about 15 pairs of headphones specially EQ'd through this system and the HD800's are by the far the best. My 404LE's were the only other set that were transparent enough to make the headphones disappear and give the illusion of speakers. They are also the only headphones that leave zero pressure or pain after hours of use which is a small miracle considering I've got a large shaved head and wear glasses.


----------



## Sorrodje

@lojay @kothganesh et @Johnjen : great posts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The HD800 is indeed not the king for mids. When I compared the HD800 and the SR009 that's what I realised: SR009's mids are so "right" . But I wouldn't trade the soundstage for the mids . Matter of tastes I presum and I listen more to instrumental music so vocals are not my priority.
  
 That been said, I've no problem to listen to Youn Sun Nah , James Blake, Newton Faulkner, Dietrich Fischer Dieskau or even Norah Jones for example.
  
 BTW I can confirm that the choice of DAC and amp is really important. I listen much more vocals since I have my Metrum Octave for example. I didn't notice this fact during the first month but after the read of Purrin's review of the Octave I realized that the strong point of this R2R dac is mids and I realized that I've changed my habits and I've started to listen to lot more vocals.
  
 I heard my HD800/Sonett 2 and a SR009/EC Electra side by side during an hour at home, with my music in a perfectly quiet environnement.  The SR009 is definitely more neutral and faster, has more mids and better mids. Overally , IMO the SR009 is closer to what we could call the top notch fidelity and accuracy.  so SR009 wins ... but not by a large margin IMO. and IMO the HD800 provides more wow effect due to its incredible soundstage , more bodied, energetic and impactful sound. If i should give a metaphor to explain my feelings : The SR009 could be the Old wise man who don't need to impress to tell the truth and the HD800 a kind of slightly more immature and aggressive youngster.  Right now I prefer to live with the Youngster. Maybe I'm not old enough myself.
  
 Right now, the three best headphones I've ever heard are the SR009, the Abyss and the HD800. Each one had its pros and cons but neither the 009 nor the Abyss would replace the HD800 in my  heart right now. Even if I had the money to purchase them and buid the system accordingly.  I don't consider that those headphones are complementary . They are more three different way of seeing a TOTL headphone.  e
  
 I haven"t heard the HE-6 yet. I like a lot the HE-4 and the HE-500 so I would be very surprised to not like the big brother . I didn't like the HE-560 at all though ( I couldn't ignore the agressive sibilant treble and the overall fatiguing forwardness of the sound.... Even EC 4-45 an Metrum hex didn't help) ... it was at a meet though so Maybe these impression are completely biased.
  
  
 For all these headphones, the whole system definitely matters.


----------



## johnjen

One thing that doesn't seem to come up much concerns what I call scalability.
  
 When you go for the TOTL headphones, they are by design and intent supposed to be able to present ALL of the details, be they good, bad, or whatever.
 Which means you will hear moar of what is being fed them, than 'less than' TOTL phones.
 And you willl hear moar of everything, including any choke points, faults, weaknesses, along with the strengths and impressive changes, in other words the whole enchilada.
 Which also means unless/until they are fed the 'correct' diet they will reflect with all of their intended precision and accuracy just exactly what that signal is and it may not be wonderful.
  
 Sometimes you can 'luck out' and your existing gear is able to feed them a signal that allows the music to blossom in it's presentation.
 Hearing your music anew is a good way of describing these sorts of results.
  
 Other times you have to work at achieving this degree of 'synergy', regardless of how good the gear is.
  
 But when that 'magic' happens and all of the components scale up together and reach a degree of 'cohesion coherence and coupling' (C3), it truly is or can be compelling.
  
 And in my case it has taken a fair amount of tweaking to dial my system in.
 But sometimes a piece of gear just slides right into the system and it immediately makes itself to home and the rewards can be wonderfull !
 My new The Rok (Ragnarok) is performing this magic trick as I type this…
  
 But that doesn't mean it can't be MOAR wonderful !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 JJ


----------



## Sorrodje

I'm not so experienced in audio but IMO we shouldn't see this business as a vertical ladder we have to climb with more upgrades, time, or money. 
  
 The purpose of our quest is more to obtain something "right" in the way our gear reproduces the Music. This "rightness" can be found at many price range and it's easy to loose the 'rigthness" when we try to "upgrade" something in our system. The rightness of the sound is something personal and does not necessarily implies "upgrades" . 
  
 Considering upgrades as a necessity is an expensive mistake IMO. Considering audio as a game with winners and losers, world champion and other ********s is untrue. it's not sports after all. I prefer considering audio as cooking : we cook our sound , add a pinch of this , a drop of that and time after time we build the perfect recipe.
  
 Then the most interesting part of the business is to see the human being behind the recipe and understand how and why he cooked his sound like that.  My 2 cents


----------



## citraian

You are perfectly right my friend. There is a problem however and that is addiction. When you get a new rig that matches your tastes you get a plethora of feelings from goosebumps, to tears and so on... The thing is that at some point you get used to this sound and those feelings start to vanish. And you want them again. Then you upgrade and you get all the good feelings back. And they vanish again. And so on...
Also, there is the human need to evolve, to have new targets to achieve.
But I fully agree with you. Sometimes we forget that this is about the music and we focus on the gear. We need to remember that it's all about the journey, not the destination.


----------



## 62ohm

@Sorrodje
  
 Is the Metrum Octave an R2R DAC? I'm contemplating on getting a new DAC, and at the moment the M51 and the Octave Mk.II caught my eyes..


----------



## Sorrodje

@62ohm : Yep R2R NOS.  I feed it with 24/88,1 PCM  (upsampling done by my Operating System)   and its just fine for my ears.  It's IMO a perfect DAC for HD800. It's like Metrum made a tailor-made dac for the Senn. Maybe people will retort than the Metrum won't do justice to HD800 resolution capabilities. I think They're right but I'm a bit reluctant to trade the timbres of the Metrum for more resolving capabilities.
  
 The Beresford Caïman mkII is somewhat (IMO) a sidegrade. More resolution, more holographic soundstage but not this marvelous timbres, especially for voices, strings and bass texures . i could live with both DACs but I think I'll keep the Metrum in my HD800 system and put the Caïman mkII in the Electro-Static System I currently build.


----------



## Sorrodje

@62ohm or anyone owns the HDVA600/800.
  
 Someone asked me for a good dac for its HDVD800. I answered him that a balanced DAC shoud me more suited for the balanced HDVD800 but does anyone known how the Senn amp is designed ? Does the amp is fully used when we use the SE input ?


----------



## bargyu

This is just my fourth post here, so be careful. As far as I know the ESS Sabre 9018 chip has 8 channels, so in balanced mode the HDVD-800 processes the left and right channels separately. I am now moving up to a balanced setup and looked around, whether it really is balanced. However, with my unbalanced stock cable and Calyx 24/192 DAC even the Nordost Valhalla XLR did not make any improvement over studio XLR or a pair of good RCA. But, many says that the balanced headphone cable does make a difference, especially in soundstage. And probably with that, there could be some improvement with the balanced XLR connection, too. Probably because the Sabre chip will work in balanced mode then. It would be interesting to know, when the chip works in balanced mode.
  
 I will upgrade both cables in order to squeeze out some 1-2% from this magnificent headphone, which I fell in love after the first listening.
  
 I can also confirm that DAC is very, very important. After Arcam irDAC and John Kenny Ciunas, Calyx 24/192 brings out details without harshness and they still have the $7k priced Femto product or there is the closely priced MSB. My tube amp is for sale now, I dont need its smoothing, warming effect anymore. For classical music I like precision, now for other type of musics I also have a non-fatiguing, but precise reproduction of the record. Just my 2 cents, as you say in the Anglo-saxon world.


----------



## kazsud

sorrodje said:


> @62ohm
> or anyone owns the HDVA600/800.
> 
> Someone asked me for a good dac for its HDVD800. I answered him that a balanced DAC shoud me more suited for the balanced HDVD800 but does anyone known how the Senn amp is designed ? Does the amp is fully used when we use the SE input ?




People who have it have said there is no difference from single/balanced inputs. Just a big difference in output.


----------



## 62ohm

Yep I don't find any difference at all between the single ended and the balanced input.


----------



## ubs28

Balanced mode only reduces the noise floor? So if you got a good chain which doesn't have any noise, balanced mode doesn't offer anything?


----------



## Sorrodje

@62ohm & @kazsud : thks mates.


----------



## johnjen

ubs28 said:


> Balanced mode only reduces the noise floor? So if you got a good chain which doesn't have any noise, balanced mode doesn't offer anything?


 
  
 Without getting all technical n'stuff… and oversimplifying a bit…
  
 Balanced mode means that a differential signal is used that does not use ground as a source of reference for the signal itself.
  
 What this means is 'one half' of the circuit 'pushes' while the other half 'pulls'.
 While single ended has the whole circuit both pushing and pulling.
  
 Balanced mode allows for 'cleaner' signal 'processing' by the whole circuit, because the output is independent of the electrical ground for the device.
  
 Single ended is tied to the device ground as a reference to the 'active' signal.
  
 And since the balanced circuit is not tied to ground it isn't 'influenced' by small ground voltage fluctuations as is the case with a single ended circuit.
  
 And using a balanced circuit also improves 'common mode rejection' which means the circuit tends to cancel unwanted signals that can be added due to the common use of the ground for both channels (among other technical issues).
  
 Balanced mode also doubles the maximum output voltage when compared to a single ended circuit with similar voltage rails from the power supply.  This means there is greater 'headroom' in terms of dynamic range potential.
  
 JJ


----------



## Blackmore

Dont get me wrong, but there are amps that have XLR out, but in fact are not balanced build, so, not sure if that may be the reason that some folks dont hear any differences? Just saying...
  
 THX


----------



## Sorrodje

diamondears said:


> I get that. That creamy sound. Very relaxing. If I want all the details, I just crank up the volume. I doubt if cranking up the volume using HD800 would be nice.




Yes. That's why I asked the question for hdvd600/800 since I don't know how the amp is designed.


----------



## bargyu

Thank you johnjen!
  
 I understand now why unbalanced output is 2.1VRms and balanced output is 6.8VRms on my Calyx dac. I hope the fully balanced setup will make a noticable difference at the end as I am planning to spend quite a lot of money on high quality cables, both XLR and headphone. I am trying to squeeze out as much as possible, now running Windows Server 2012R2, MQn, JPlay, split silver usb cable only for data transfer, external power supply for the dac, upgraded power cord and apart from different amp/dac combo I don't see what I can do more. I heard good reviews about Audiophile Optimizer for €100, the only problem is that there is no trial period. Don't misunderstand me, I love this setup and this headphone is magnificent, I listen it for hours almost every day, I am just addicted to get 1% more quality. Have a nice day!


----------



## Justin_Time

lojay said:


> You might reconsider that view if you've heard the HE-6 properly driven and the SR009. I own all three headphones and have lived with them for about a year on TOTL amps, i.e. the Woo WA5 and EC 4-45. The HD800 shines for live instrumental recordings and depicts the soundstage with an uncanny naturalness and realism unparalleled by the SR009 and HE-6. Yet, even when modded, the HD800 lacks flesh, body and soul when it comes to vocals.
> 
> That being said, the HD800 is a fine contender for vocals - just not quite the top dog when it comes to that aspect.
> 
> ...



 


I concur on both points. +1


----------



## Klots

So....got my HD800 just now (31xxx). Turned my M-dac and BH Crack on, connected headphones and.......im in heaven


----------



## MattTCG

I'm using the Crack and gungnir and couldn't be happier...well, unless I use my Fisher 500c instead.


----------



## ubs28

johnjen said:


> Without getting all technical n'stuff… and oversimplifying a bit…
> 
> Balanced mode means that a differential signal is used that does not use ground as a source of reference for the signal itself.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## johnjen

bargyu said:


> Thank you johnjen!
> 
> snip


 
 Quote: 





ubs28 said:


> Thanks for the explanation.


 
  
 :thumb
  
 JJ


----------



## James-uk

I've just signed up to Tidal for lossless streaming and I highly recommend it. I was happy with spotify and chose it over cd for convenience . Now the best of both worlds has arrived and I am one happy camper! Sounds perfect from iPad / Mac book air through benchmark dac1 usb into HD800. RIP Compact disc!


----------



## skeptic

To add to JJs explanation, push pull amplification is one way of producing a balanced signal but not the only way. With push pull, you get moar power and double the slew rate but also double the channels, cost, distortion, noise (excluding common mode) and output impedance. Benchmark has a white paper on this. Supersymetry amps by Pass and kg's latest dynalo and dynahi are the only push pull variants that give you the benefits without the detriments. 

Alternatively, other amps like the mainline and donald north lineup produce true balanced signals, as the output of two channel amps, via the center taps of output transformers. 

DNA explains this as follows: I am frequently asked why an amplifier with balanced outputs does not include balanced inputs. This is because balanced inputs are not necessary to provide balanced headphone drive. Being a single ended amplifier, all it needs for input is a single ended (unbalanced) signal. The Sonett 2 operates single ended triode with transformer loading the plate of the 6H30 amplification tubes. The secondary windings on the output transformers are center tapped (and grounded for safety), thereby providing a true, differential, balanced output. Thus, you get balanced drive without the complexity from additional balanced input circuitry or input transformers. Again, the simpler - the better.


----------



## johnjen

skeptic said:


> To add to JJs explanation, push pull amplification is one way of producing a balanced signal but not the only way. With push pull, you get moar power and double the slew rate but also double the channels, cost, distortion, noise (excluding common mode) and output impedance. Benchmark has a white paper on this. Supersymetry amps by Pass and kg's latest dynalo and dynahi are the only push pull variants that give you the benefits without the detriments.
> 
> Alternatively, other amps like the mainline and donald north lineup produce true balanced signals, as the output of two channel amps, via the center taps of output transformers.
> 
> DNA explains this as follows: I am frequently asked why an amplifier with balanced outputs does not include balanced inputs. This is because balanced inputs are not necessary to provide balanced headphone drive. Being a single ended amplifier, all it needs for input is a single ended (unbalanced) signal. The Sonett 2 operates single ended triode with transformer loading the plate of the 6H30 amplification tubes. The secondary windings on the output transformers are center tapped (and grounded for safety), thereby providing a true, differential, balanced output. Thus, you get balanced drive without the complexity from additional balanced input circuitry or input transformers. Again, the simpler - the better.


 
  
 Yes!
 And yet another example of a 'simple' true balanced circuit (input thru to output) is the circlotron design as used by Schiit in their Mjolnir and Ragnarok amps.  This circuit topology is inherently balanced and is not 2 amp channels strapped together (double the parts count).  It is a rather sophisticated design from the 1950's.  http://circlotron.tripod.com
  
 Schiit uses a solid state version (no output transformer) of this topology with several 'advanced' circuit tricks applied to the designs.
  
 Low parts count along with their 'tricks' yields some very satisfying sonic results.
 Which I can atest that they can match up very well to the HD-800.
  
 Not to mention a very reasonable price. :thumb
 And yes there are always exceptions, which I attribute to the designers creativity and desire to 'push the envelope', (or not).  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 JJ


----------



## dxanex

And if you're like me, balanced also lets you run ridiculously long cable runs without any risk of degrading signal or sound quality.


----------



## Sorrodje

@skeptic : thks for the insight . I knew for DNA amps but I didn't know the Mainline provided the same thing.
  
  
 The Sonett allows to use  both SE and balanced mode with the same XLR output. I had hard times to identify sonic differences in fast A/B comparisons though. I'm quite sure I gain something and I never switched back to my stock câble since I have my balanced câble. Dunno if it's the effect of the pure copper cable or the balanced mode or placebo effect maybe but I feel ( more than hear) an improvement .. maybe a bit more ooomph and a deepest soundstage. Overally I feel the music sounds more real now.
  
 I received a Stax combo a few days ago : SR404 + SRM1/mk2. It's very enjoyable but nothing close to my HD800 IMO .
  
 Oddly it seems the 404 is a bit brighter than my HD800 and (its not surprising) despite its air and wideness, the SR404 soundsate and imaging capabilities can not compete with HD800 ones. Everything sounds far more real with the Senn. The most obvious shortcoming of the SR404 is a kind of hardness in the mids. Nothing extreme but it bothers me a bit and I felt the need to lower the volume sometimes. More time will tell me if this lambda will deserve a place in my heart or not. the Loop through feature of Stax amps is extremely useful. I don't understand why there're not more amps who provides that.
  
  

  
  

 I like to have a Stax at home though. This brand has a very specific aura and the E-stat sound has its charms I really appreciate a lot.


----------



## traehekat

Does anyone know if there are any differences between older and newer HD800s?


----------



## Chodi

traehekat said:


> Does anyone know if there are any differences between older and newer HD800s?


 
 This question has come up many times. You can search the forum for lots of comments. The majority of those who have owned both claim there is no difference beyond what minimal variance there might be between any two manufacturing samples. The consensus is that it makes no difference.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

klots said:


> So....got my HD800 just now (31xxx). Turned my M-dac and BH Crack on, connected headphones and.......im in heaven


 

 Yay!


----------



## traehekat

chodi said:


> This question has come up many times. You can search the forum for lots of comments. The majority of those who have owned both claim there is no difference beyond what minimal variance there might be between any two manufacturing samples. The consensus is that it makes no difference.


 

 I'll take a look, thanks for the response.


----------



## kazsud

chodi said:


> This question has come up many times. You can search the forum for lots of comments. The majority of those who have owned both claim there is no difference beyond what minimal variance there might be between any two manufacturing samples. The consensus is that it makes no difference.




That manufacturing video is concrete evidence on how there a minimal variances and if two people at a meet each have one at either spectrum they will slightly sound different.


----------



## Klots

birdmanofct said:


> Yay!


 

 Yea, really enjoying them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 







 Got bored todey at work...This is a test piece..


  
  
 But the real one has few dimensions changed and the end finish is going to be black... Hope it turns out nice


----------



## AstSam

Just got my HD800 in today, and boy i can't get passed the in-your-face presentation of the highs!
Definitely enjoy their open sound, but i sure hope their highs mellow down a bit after some hours of burn in, at least so they don't sound so..."shouty"
Have them paired with a Bifrost U / Lyr 2 combo.
For the time being, can't see them replacing my LCD3's, at least for hard rock/metal hearings. (live concerts sound fantastic tho on the 800 in my opinion)


----------



## James-uk

astsam said:


> Just got my HD800 in today, and boy i can't get passed the in-your-face presentation of the highs!
> Definitely enjoy their open sound, but i sure hope their highs mellow down a bit after some hours of burn in, at least so they don't sound so..."shouty"
> Have them paired with a Bifrost U / Lyr 2 combo.
> For the time being, can't see them replacing my LCD3's, at least for hard rock/metal hearings. (live concerts sound fantastic tho on the 800 in my opinion)




I felt the same way when I first got them but now everything else just sounds soft and mellow in comparison. The sound won't change but you will adapt and once you do the LCDs might end up being a very expensive complimentary can.


----------



## kothganesh

astsam said:


> Just got my HD800 in today, and boy i can't get passed the in-your-face presentation of the highs!
> Definitely enjoy their open sound, but i sure hope their highs mellow down a bit after some hours of burn in, at least so they don't sound so..."shouty"
> Have them paired with a Bifrost U / Lyr 2 combo.
> For the time being, can't see them replacing my LCD3's, at least for hard rock/metal hearings. (live concerts sound fantastic tho on the 800 in my opinion)


 

 Or search for the Anax mod on HF and implement it asap. You will be happier.


----------



## Sorrodje

@James-uk : Did you find yourself an entry-level stax combo finally ?


----------



## James-uk

sorrodje said:


> @James-uk
> : Did you find yourself an entry-level stax combo finally ?




No, I'm so happy with my Setup now I've lost the desire to venture into stax land. The curiosity has gone and it would just be a waste of money I suppose. That said if I spot a good deal or have a had a few beers I might just make an impulse purchase.


----------



## rawrster

I said that once when I had the hd800 before I ventured into stax


----------



## Sorrodje

ah ah ah I didn't want to launch a War mates


----------



## wink

A much as I like my HD800's the Stax SR007 Mk1 and SR009 through a KGSSHV are definitely better.


----------



## dreamwhisper

Is the 009 a bit bright thru the KGSS-HV? Or does it sound kind of like an e-stat HD800?


----------



## GardenVariety

wink said:


> A much as I like my HD800's the Stax SR007 Mk1 and SR009 through a KGSSHV are definitely better.


 
 I should hope a headphone at twice the price would be better


----------



## Nitori

dreamwhisper said:


> Is the 009 a bit bright thru the KGSS-HV? Or does it sound kind of like an e-stat HD800?


 
 No and no.
  
 The sr009 does *not* sound like an HD800 in any way, even if you do not consider the characteristic sound of an electrostat and just focus on tonality........


----------



## dreamwhisper

nitori said:


> even if you do not consider the characteristic sound of an electrostat and just focus on tonality


 
  
 I thought the characteristic e-stat sound was the tonality, particularly the transparency.


----------



## Nitori

dreamwhisper said:


> I thought the characteristic e-stat sound was the tonality, particularly the transparency.
> 
> Anyway, what I mean to say is, does it sound kind of 'off' on that setup like the HD800 does, with regards to it's brightness.


 
  
 To clarify: 
  
 I consider tonality something like the distribution between the amount of bass, mids and treble e.g. is it flat ("neutral") or V shaped etc.
  
 Transparency is something different imo. A headphone can have a very warm or bright sound but still be very transparent (or not). Electrostats (and some orthodynamics) have a rather good transparency in my experience. They sound more "3d", its difficult to describe 
  
  
 To answer your question: The sr009 on a kgsshv does not sound as bright and harsh as the HD800 can be. It has substantially more bass quantity and more intimate mids than the Sennheiser as well. Maybe a tube amp is a better fit for the HD800 like some people say but I have only listened to it on a Yulong U100 (not recommended) and an HDVD800 (very much recommended).


----------



## magiccabbage

I have the WA5/HD800 here - the pairing is amazing even with stock tubes. I'm not getting any harshness in the treble so far even with Wynton Marsalis trumpet in the high registers. I will try a few more treble heavy tracks later. 
  
 Really surprised with the bass and fullness of the WA5 with stock tubes and can only imagine what the EML300b - TS6f8g - CV593 will sound like 
  
 It sounds so different from the WA2 - A LOT BETTER - even though the WA2 is maxed it can't compete with the WA5


----------



## rgs9200m

nitori said:


> No and no.
> 
> The sr009 does *not* sound like an HD800 in any way, even if you do not consider the characteristic sound of an electrostat and just focus on tonality........


 

 I agree. The similarities (in terms of freq. response generally) are superficial. They are totally different listening experiences. The 009 has amazing speed and detail but is also harder to tame. (But if you get it right, it's in a class by itself.)


----------



## rawrster

Back when I still had the hd800 I was shocked when I first heard the sr009. I thought it would be a higher level hd800 but that wasn't the case. The signature of the sr009 wasn't for me. I do consider them the best I've heard however. This was with a highly resolving setup too. 

I'm not sure why the sr009 are considered the natural upgrade to the hd800. Actually I don't think there is anything I've heard that would be the upgrade to it


----------



## SilentFrequency

rawrster said:


> Back when I still had the hd800 I was shocked when I first heard the sr009. I thought it would be a higher level hd800 but that wasn't the case. The signature of the sr009 wasn't for me. I do consider them the best I've heard however. This was with a highly resolving setup too.
> 
> I'm not sure why the sr009 are considered the natural upgrade to the hd800. Actually I don't think there is anything I've heard that would be the upgrade to it




A subjective example of how a higher price (sr009) does not always necessarily equate to higher satisfaction maybe?

(I checked the price of the sr009 online and nearly died when I read it! :eek: )

I'm guessing the sr009 is the most expensive headphone to run correctly in the current high end market from what I've read here at head-fi so far anyway?


----------



## Revogamer

silentfrequency said:


> A subjective example of how a higher price (sr009) does not always necessarily equate to higher satisfaction maybe?
> 
> (I checked the price of the sr009 online and nearly died when I read it!
> 
> ...


 
 Check out the Abyss AB-1266


----------



## Chodi

I went the Stax mid level route and wound up selling it. Then I auditioned the 007 and and later the 009 both were on Stax amps at that time. The 007 was shockingly warmer then all the other Stax entries almost like very good ortho's. The 009 was nothing like my HD800. So bright and etched that I could not listen to it for long. Then much later I had a chance to hear the 009 on a woo amp and boy was it different. Much better and highly resolving. Still if I was to go back to the Stax family I would go for the warmth of the 007. The cost of pairing either of these with a proper amp is just too much for me to justify. I have invested far less in my HD800 system and get glorious sound. Just the need to have a completely dedicated system for Stax was enough to put me off. I like to change off my headphones and obviously you can't do that with Stax (you would need more than one complete system). I guess if I had an unlimited budget I might go for the 007 with a Woo amp but not as my only system. To get into the really good Stax sound you have to be thinking upwards of 7-10K. Even more if you want to go with the very top electrostatic amps.


----------



## paradoxper

Guess I'll crap on the HD800 considering this is the proper place.
  
 To me, they're lifeless no matter what I've heard them on. That is, they're just not for me. I disagree that the HD800 is just so different from the 009.
 They really do share the same approach, it's just the 009 does everything right, for me. The 007 is warmer and veiled compared to the 009, but it's still 
 more resolving than the HD800. The HD800 gets soundstage and imaging right, those are tops, but it's still a headphone that has never moved me.
 It's still technically one of the best headphone around, but that doesn't equate to enjoyment, same can be said for the 009 - too resolving, not dark enough ,etc.
  
 I'd love to hear the HD800 out of something that is considered beastly i.e. Leviathan, I've heard 'em out of LG, LAu, EC onslaught and they were never transformed.
 I don't believe any amp will morph any driver into something it's not, but I hope to achieve the absolute best for my 009 with a DIY T2.
 I will say however, a good $2.5/3k can land you a KGSSHV which is an absolute wonder with the 009. That could totally be endgame, if you wanted to stop chasing the dragon.


----------



## preproman

paradoxper said:


> Guess I'll crap on the HD800 considering this is the proper place.
> 
> To me, they're lifeless no matter what I've heard them on. That is, they're just not for me. I disagree that the HD800 is just so different from the 009.
> They really do share the same approach, it's just the 009 does everything right, for me. The 007 is warmer and veiled compared to the 009, but it's still
> ...


----------



## lojay

I never understood people calling the 009s "bright". To me the HD800 is brighter or let's put it this way, has more trouble with the treble. The treble of the SR009 is top notch. I wonder how long the posters above have actually lived with both headphones, if at all, and to what extent they are merely repeating popular beliefs spread around these forums about these headphones.
  
 The only thing I agree with the above is that the SR009 is _not_ an upgrade from the HD800. There are things that the HD800 does spectacularly which the SR009s fail to do, such as soundstage and imaging. One presents sounds in a delicate, ethereal manner (i.e. the SR009), the other presents them with more pin-point accuracy and with more of an "edge", though not as meaty or visceral as planars. In short, they cannot sound more different. 
  
 That said, with a proper set-up, the _level of enjoyment_ one can get from the HD800 can really be second to none.


----------



## rawrster

chodi said:


> I went the Stax mid level route and wound up selling it. Then I auditioned the 007 and and later the 009 both were on Stax amps at that time. The 007 was shockingly warmer then all the other Stax entries almost like very good ortho's. The 009 was nothing like my HD800. So bright and etched that I could not listen to it for long. Then much later I had a chance to hear the 009 on a woo amp and boy was it different. Much better and highly resolving. Still if I was to go back to the Stax family I would go for the warmth of the 007. The cost of pairing either of these with a proper amp is just too much for me to justify. I have invested far less in my HD800 system and get glorious sound. Just the need to have a completely dedicated system for Stax was enough to put me off. I like to change off my headphones and obviously you can't do that with Stax (you would need more than one complete system). I guess if I had an unlimited budget I might go for the 007 with a Woo amp but not as my only system. To get into the really good Stax sound you have to be thinking upwards of 7-10K. Even more if you want to go with the very top electrostatic amps.




There is a level of commitment and I'm still in the middle of it. The plan was to get a kgsshv but the amount of time listening at home has gone down dramatically since I first bought my sr007. However if I was to buy a 2nd headphone it would be the sr009 and a proper amp. I can justify my amp with 1 headphone but not 2. 

The hd800 is the safer choice since it's the typical plug that most amps are designed for. It's not a popular choice for enjoyment which I understand however those who like them really like them. If I was to go back I would probably choose these unless a lighter and more comfortable he6 was released.


----------



## SilentFrequency

revogamer said:


> Check out the Abyss AB-1266




I just checked this and omg, that is so totally expensive!

I mean, you would seriously expect those headphones to be amazingly the best sound quality ever for that price!

How do these Abyss AB-1266 headphones compare to the HD800 or even the sr009?

One thing I can say straight away about the Abyss AB-1266 is, they are totally ugly looking headphones for their cost!


----------



## preproman

rawrster said:


> There is a level of commitment and I'm still in the middle of it. The plan was to get a kgsshv but the amount of time listening at home has gone down dramatically since I first bought my sr007. However if I was to buy a 2nd headphone it would be the sr009 and a proper amp. I can justify my amp with 1 headphone but not 2.
> 
> The hd800 is the safer choice since it's the typical plug that most amps are designed for. It's not a popular choice for enjoyment which I understand however those who like them really like them. If I was to go back I would probably choose these unless *a lighter and more comfortable he6 was released.*


 
  
 We can only hope...


----------



## SilentFrequency

lojay said:


> I never understood people calling the 009s "bright". To me the HD800 is brighter or let's put it this way, has more trouble with the treble. The treble of the SR009 is top notch. I wonder how long the posters above have actually lived with both headphones, if at all, and to what extent they are merely repeating popular beliefs spread around these forums about these headphones.
> 
> The only thing I agree with the above is that the SR009 is _not_ an upgrade from the HD800. There are things that the HD800 does spectacularly which the SR009s fail to do, such as soundstage and imaging. One presents sounds in a delicate, ethereal manner (i.e. the SR009), the other presents them with more pin-point accuracy and with more of an "edge", though not as meaty or visceral as planars. In short, they cannot sound more different.
> 
> *That said, with a proper set-up, the level of enjoyment one can get from the HD800 can really be second to none.  *





I use my hd800's with a hi fi m8 amplifier (both gifted to me by my father) and iPhone 6 Plus as source playing downloaded iTunes music, mostly pop like Taylor Swift etc but also artists like Diana Krall but I actually listen to varied genres also including recently, metal.

Do you think my set up is proper ie can I get more out of my hd800's do you think?

Thanks,

SF


----------



## Chodi

A lighter more comfortable HE6 is exactly what I am waiting for. I had hopes for the HE560 but from all the reports I am going to wait on that. If they could deliver the HE500 sound in a much lighter package I would be on board. I would still never sell my HD800's. I should point out that I listen mostly to classical so that explains my preference for the Hd 800 but when I had the HE500 during the 15 minutes I could keep it on my head the warm ortho sound was very appealing for a change of pace.


----------



## rawrster

preproman said:


> We can only hope...


 
  
 I would sell my SR007 rig so fast and buy a lighter and more comfortable HE6 if that ever happened. That's one of the few headphones where everything sounds so effortless and that midrange is probably the best I've ever heard.


silentfrequency said:


> I use my hd800's with a hi fi m8 amplifier (both gifted to me by my father) and iPhone 6 Plus as source playing downloaded iTunes music, mostly pop like Taylor Swift etc but also artists like Diana Krall but I actually listen to varied genres also including recently, metal.
> 
> Do you think my set up is proper ie can I get more out of my hd800's do you think?
> 
> ...


 
  
 A good way is to try to go to a meet and hope it's not loud or if you have a hifi audio shop that has different types of amps that they could let you try with the HD800. I've never heard them but they don't seem to be very popular here.


----------



## lojay

silentfrequency said:


> I use my hd800's with a hi fi m8 amplifier (both gifted to me by my father) and iPhone 6 Plus as source playing downloaded iTunes music, mostly pop like Taylor Swift etc but also artists like Diana Krall but I actually listen to varied genres also including recently, metal.
> 
> Do you think my set up is proper ie can I get more out of my hd800's do you think?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can't speak for you as I have not heard the M8 amplifier. But I can tell you that it took me almost a year of trying different top of the line amps and DAC combinations before I became entirely happy with the HD800s. My current HD800 setup (MSB Analog, EC 4-45, HD800 plus tubes and cables) costs well over US$10,000. In my experience, the HD800 can scale very high when you improve your upstream equipment. That said, the most important thing is your own budget and how much you are content with the sound you are getting from the HD800s. Very often people end up with a mid-fi set up and stay there for a very long time. Sometimes people attend meets or try out amplifiers and start getting ideas about how much more their HD800 can improve. In fact, listening to a better setup with the HD800s was the very reason why I partook this endless journey to harness the full potential of the HD800.
  
 In short, if you are happy with what you are hearing, and do not have the time, interest or budget to upgrade, do not bother. Otherwise, welcome to a wild ride of a journey!


----------



## Frank I

magiccabbage said:


> I have the WA5/HD800 here - the pairing is amazing even with stock tubes. I'm not getting any harshness in the treble so far even with Wynton Marsalis trumpet in the high registers. I will try a few more treble heavy tracks later.
> 
> Really surprised with the bass and fullness of the WA5 with stock tubes and can only imagine what the EML300b - TS6f8g - CV593 will sound like
> 
> It sounds so different from the WA2 - A LOT BETTER - even though the WA2 is maxed it can't compete with the WA5


 
 when you get those tubes you will see a major difference in the performance . Huge differences in transparency and dynamics.


----------



## SilentFrequency

rawrster said:


> A good way is to try to go to a meet and hope it's not loud or if you have a hifi audio shop that has different types of amps that they could let you try with the HD800. I've never heard them but they don't seem to be very popular here.




Ok, thanks 



lojay said:


> I can't speak for you as I have not heard the M8 amplifier. But I can tell you that it took me almost a year of trying different top of the line amps and DAC combinations before I became entirely happy with the HD800s. My current HD800 setup (MSB Analog, EC 4-45, HD800 plus tubes and cables) costs well over US$10,000. In my experience, the HD800 can scale very high when you improve your upstream equipment. That said, the most important thing is your own budget and how much you are content with the sound you are getting from the HD800s. Very often people end up with a mid-fi set up and stay there for a very long time. Sometimes people attend meets or try out amplifiers and start getting ideas about how much more their HD800 can improve. In fact, listening to a better setup with the HD800s was the very reason why I partook this endless journey to harness the full potential of the HD800.
> 
> In short, if you are happy with what you are hearing, and do not have the time, interest or budget to upgrade, do not bother. Otherwise, welcome to a wild ride of a journey!




Yeah, maybe I'm pretty happy now and don't have anywhere near the finances for a over $10K set up!

Maybe in the future sometime though 

Thank you


----------



## MickeyVee

You don't have to have a $10K setup ton enjoy the HD800.  There are a lot of awesome setups for much, much less than that. If you're enjoying them with what you have, then keep enjoying!! I do agree with the recommendations to audition with other dacs/amps if the upgraditius bug ever hits you.
  
 Quote:


silentfrequency said:


> Yeah, maybe I'm pretty happy now and don't have anywhere near the finances for a over $10K set up!


----------



## lojay

I agree, people now are a lot luckier than when the HD800 first came out in the sense that there's a lot more information as to cheaper amps for the HD800. They are amazing headphones. If only they had the lush mids and vocal rendition of the HE6... I still find the HD800 lacking a bit of flesh and soul when it comes to vocals. Even with my presumable TOTL setup.


----------



## lin0003

silentfrequency said:


> I just checked this and omg, that is so totally expensive!
> 
> I mean, you would seriously expect those headphones to be amazingly the best sound quality ever for that price!
> 
> ...


 
 I was actually really underwhelmed by the Abyss. It sounded good, but not better than the HD800 and it kept feeling like it was going to fall off my head.


----------



## Sorrodje

@lojay and paradoxper : great posts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I've the same feelings about mids. A few month ago, I would have said that the HD800 offer the best mid in the world. That's not true . SR009 has the best mids In my opinion. Fortunately, as far as I remember, I've always listened mostly to instrumental music and I had always problems with (even slighly) forward mids. I think that's one of the reason why I love so much the HD800. I must add that the Metrum dac helps to bring more meat in the mids and its a fact I'm listening to more vocals since I have this dac and the Sonett 2. Fortunately it seems i can live with that combo even if I know it's not the last word for resolution. With my current Budget I made a choice and i've traded a bit of resolution for a bit more smoothness.
  
 I've compared  the 009 and the HD800 (ED Electra for the SR009, Sonett for the HD800, My Metrum for DAC) during an hour. Too short to be really affirmative but I least, I was at home in an perfectly quiet environment and I listened to my music. Both cans are two of the three greatest headphones I heard thus far ( the third one is the Abyss and I never listened the HE-6 so my personal Ranking can't take it into account) . SR009 wins for mids , neutrality, fastness, accuracy IMO & the HD800 wins for bass, soundstage, imaging, impact and "wow" effect. I find these headphones are more similar than different but at this level differences matters  . For my tastes in sound and music, I wouldn't trade my HD800 for a SR009 despite the fact I consider the SR009 a notch above the HD800 for its accuracy & transparency  which is IMO the most important point to rank objectively headphones . I think the SR009 would fail to involve me in the music as much as the HD800 do (mostly because of the soundstage) .  I wouldn't care to have both though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
I fully agree with Lojay's assesments about HD800 treble. Edge, sharpness, hardness are more adequate words than Brightness IMO.  This edge tends to diappear with the best amps (My best experience was with an Eddie Curent Balancing Act)  but still remains.


----------



## Canadian411

Sorrodje you are really missing he6  it's a very special headphone.
Level of enjoyment on he6 is different than hd800 imo, he6 sounds to me 3d.

And I really like the bass on he6.


----------



## Sorrodje

@Canadian411 : Know that.
  
 but the HE-6 is hard to drive and I haven't the opportunity yet to find one at a good price. 
  
 I currently begin my journey in the e-stat route because I add both the money and the opportunity to buy a Koss ESP950/E90 and Stax SR404/SRM1-MKII for not much more money than a used HE-6 here in France.  But I didn't forget at all the HE-6 even more if I consider I loved the HE-4 and liked the HE-500. 
  
 An AKG K812 will come at home in the next days and will stay during january too. I'll have the time to make my own opinion about this AKG before he goes to its final buyer.  I had the same opportunity for the Ultrasone Edition 12  a few weeks ago.


----------



## Canadian411

sorrodje said:


> @Canadian411 : Know that.
> 
> but the HE-6 is hard to drive and I haven't the opportunity yet to find one at a good price.
> 
> ...


 
 Oh !! congrats on K812, must be nice ! will be nice to hear your impression vs HD800


----------



## Samuel777

Hello,
  
 I would like to order one Headphone to be coupled with AK120 II / or Titan + Centranse HI M8 LX XL4.
 And i'm hesitating between HIFIMAN 400i / HIFIMAN 560 and Sennheiser HD 800 (my preference is going to HD 800) but would like to get confirmation ... as i have never listen to any of them.
  
 Please, which on could you advise me ?
 I listen Reggae, Zouk, lets say general music (african ...) i think you catch me.
  
 Thx.


----------



## Dopaminer

samuel777 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I would like to order one Headphone to be coupled with AK120 II / or Titan + Centranse HI M8 LX XL4.
> And i'm hesitating between HIFIMAN 400i / HIFIMAN 560 and Sennheiser HD 800 (my preference is going to HD 800) but would like to get confirmation ... as i have never listen to any of them.
> ...




I have 120ii, and hd800. My 120 can drive my HD 800 in lower power single-ended mode reasonably well and sounds reasonably fantastic, however when I demoed the 560 at a headphone show I basically had to max out the volume and therefore I believe you would definitely need an amplifier


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Re-importing some of my CDs at lossless rates. These headphones really show a lot. Wish all my albums were high-res. Gonna need a larger hard drive soon....


----------



## analog'd

...


----------



## Acapella11

samuel777 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I would like to order one Headphone to be coupled with AK120 II / or Titan + Centranse HI M8 LX XL4.
> And i'm hesitating between HIFIMAN 400i / HIFIMAN 560 and Sennheiser HD 800 (my preference is going to HD 800) but would like to get confirmation ... as i have never listen to any of them.
> ...


 
  
 Please, take this post with grain of salt because I haven't listened to the HE-400i and HE-560 but the HE-400 and I am owning the HE-500. Well, I heard the HE-560 briefly to be perfectly true but would have needed to more time for a proper evaluation. However, my guess is that the HD800 are sounding a bit more "higher end" than the Hifimans (IMO, as compared to HE-500), which is why I would suggest the HD800. I read that the AK only fits mediocre (http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2014/11/astellkern-ak120-ii-review/) but I think Jude found HD800 and Centrance quite good together. My credo is to buy the best headphone you like and can afford and then set up the system around it. The HD800s excel most at classic but I love them for every genre.


----------



## ubs28

acapella11 said:


> Please, take this post with grain of salt because I haven't listened to the HE-400i and HE-560 but the HE-400 and I am owning the HE-500. Well, I heard the HE-560 briefly to be perfectly true but would have needed to more time for a proper evaluation. However, my guess is that the HD800 are sounding a bit more "higher end" than the Hifimans (IMO, as compared to HE-500), which is why I would suggest the HD800. I read that the AK only fits mediocre (http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2014/11/astellkern-ak120-ii-review/) but I think Jude found HD800 and Centrance quite good together. My credo is to buy the best headphone you like and can afford and then set up the system around it. *The HD800s excel most at classic but I love them for every genre.*


 
  
 I think the HD800 excels with high quality recordings rather than a particular music genre.
  
 My Access Virus TI (one of the best synthesizer in the world which is used in many modern recordings) sounds much darker than what you hear in songs on the radio. So producers generally add alot of sparkle and brightness in the final mix most of the time which the HD800 picks up. I heard other reference speakers and headphones that show this brightness with certain songs.


----------



## dreamwhisper

paradoxper said:


> I don't believe any amp will morph any driver into something it's not.


 
  
 Thanks for your response. Yeah, from what I've read the HD800 and 009's approach did seem to be not that different.
  
 I also agree with you regarding transforming a driver into something entirely different.
 Although Stax has responded heavily to source and amp upgrades. From memory I consider the KGSS-HV 2x as good as the 717, and since I got it for 2x the price, that's a decent priceerformance ratio.

 Haven't gotten a chance to hear the HD800 from other amps, but just wanted to point out that ime Stax has responded more dramatically with regards to an amp changing the driver than it should at this price bracket. (massive response to source change too)
 Maybe this is a quality of Stax and they are an exception to the rule?
 Really makes you wonder about the T2 and Blue Hawaii family of amps.


----------



## RUMAY408

samuel777 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I would like to order one Headphone to be coupled with AK120 II / or Titan + Centranse HI M8 LX XL4.
> And i'm hesitating between HIFIMAN 400i / HIFIMAN 560 and Sennheiser HD 800 (my preference is going to HD 800) but would like to get confirmation ... as i have never listen to any of them.
> ...


 

 At a recent Head-Fi meet I had a chance to listen to the 400i/500/560 and the HD800.
 The HD800 is still my favorite compared to the above.  The HE-6 is a better comparison on an audio basis to the HD800.  
  
 FYI: a modded 560 sounded significantly better than the stock 560.  
 I still prefer the sound of the older 400 over the 400i, the 400i is however much more comfortable.


----------



## analog'd

I have a blue cardas cable on my hd800s, but I'm anxiously waiting to receive an adapter I ordered on dec 5th that'll let me use my Q audio black silk lcd3 cable with the hd800s. anyone know what I should expect from the Q on the senns?


----------



## Amictus

analog'd said:


> I have a blue cardas cable on my hd800s, but I'm anxiously waiting to receive an adapter I ordered on dec 5th that'll let me use my Q audio black silk lcd3 cable with the hd800s. anyone know what I should expect from the Q on the senns?


 
 I'm waiting for mine to arrive. I've ordered both a hifiman and an HD800 adapter.


----------



## analog'd

amictus said:


> analog'd said:
> 
> 
> > I have a blue cardas cable on my hd800s, but I'm anxiously waiting to receive an adapter I ordered on dec 5th that'll let me use my Q audio black silk lcd3 cable with the hd800s. anyone know what I should expect from the Q on the senns?
> ...


 

 cool, it'll be fun to compare impressions. I'm afraid to ask how long you've been waiting though.
  
 ah, but it sounds as though you ordered the cables themselves and the adapters, yes?


----------



## johnjen

If memory serves (it has been several years now) but the Q cables were smoother and more detailed than the cardas cable (I don't think it was the blue).
 But it was a step up in overall SQ.
  
 JJ


----------



## Amictus

analog'd said:


> cool, it'll be fun to compare impressions. I'm afraid to ask how long you've been waiting though.
> 
> ah, but it sounds as though you ordered the cables themselves and the adapters, yes?


 

 I have ordered one 3 meter cable with both adapters. If the Q cable is an improvement on the Senn stock cable, I'll order a 1 meter cable for the HD800. The other headphone 'in play' is a HE-500. I'll let you know...


----------



## aaronbiggy

i just found a review in the sennheiser india website for the hd 800 . . . the guy thinks v moda is better than hd 800 . . . . and mentions in the cons that quote " we cant fold it . and its not portable . . " hats off


----------



## lin0003

Lol, What? 
  
 I mean surely he knew that they are not portable and cannot be folded before he bought them? 
  
 Hard to imagine anybody finding the M-100 better, but I guess some people dislike the brighter sound.


----------



## Dopaminer

that's like complaining about your Ferrari because the lawn mower does not fit in the trunk.


----------



## Mortalcoil

aaronbiggy said:


> i just found a review in the sennheiser india website for the hd 800 . . . the guy thinks v moda is better than hd 800 . . . . and mentions in the cons that quote " we cant fold it . and its not portable . . " hats off


 

  
  This type of comment usually comes from someone who has no plans or means to enter the world of the higher end of things.  It helps justify their foray into the low/middle ground of things be it headphones, cars, houses, etc.
  
   My comments are in no means meant to sound elitist or snooty................... you get my point.


----------



## Arttt




----------



## aaronbiggy

lin0003 said:


> Lol, What?
> 
> 
> I mean surely he knew that they are not portable and cannot be folded before he bought them?
> ...




I still prefer the sound and bass of HD 800. . I would gosh. . . Love to own one of then.. But then I would also have to get a more powerful amplifier. . . So lets see. . . Right now focus on jh roxanne universal fit. And I must say. . He is a source of fun .. . And to say. . Posting comment on sennheisers own website . . Lol


----------



## Canadian411

haha, why even bother looking at this comment ? He obviously never heard of jealous of HD800, ignore it


----------



## aaronbiggy

mortalcoil said:


> This type of comment usually comes from someone who has no plans or means to enter the world of the higher end of things.  It helps justify their foray into the low/middle ground of things be it headphones, cars, houses, etc.
> 
> My comments are in no means meant to sound elitist or snooty................... you get my point.





Comparing a maruti suzuki 800 to a lamborghini aventador will give lesser difference


----------



## llcook51

aaronbiggy said:


> i just found a review in the sennheiser india website for the hd 800 . . . the guy thinks v moda is better than hd 800 . . . . and mentions in the cons that quote " we cant fold it . and its not portable . . " hats off


 
 Must be suffering from HD envey.


----------



## MickeyVee

I think you will be quite happy with the Q cable on the HD800.  Smooth as silk (no pun inteneded) and probably the best of the cables I've used with the HD800.  In the end, the earrings drove me nuts but that's just me.  YMMV.  Enjoy!!
 Quote:


analog'd said:


> anyone know what I should expect from the Q on the senns?


 
  
  


amictus said:


> I'm waiting for mine to arrive. I've ordered both a hifiman and an HD800 adapter.


----------



## analog'd

mickeyvee said:


> I think you will be quite happy with the Q cable on the HD800.  Smooth as silk (no pun inteneded) and probably the best of the cables I've used with the HD800.  In the end, the earrings drove me nuts but that's just me.  YMMV.  Enjoy!!
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 

 thanks so much for the response. very encouraging.


----------



## icebear

samuel777 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I would like to order one Headphone to be coupled with AK120 II / or Titan + Centranse HI M8 LX XL4.
> And i'm hesitating between HIFIMAN 400i / HIFIMAN 560 and Sennheiser HD 800 (my preference is going to HD 800) but would like to get confirmation ... as i have never listen to any of them.
> ...


 
  
 I can't specificly comment on your planned set up but in regards to your music preference :
  
 I recently got into African music a little and have a few albums of Anouar Brahem [ECM] and
 Ballake Sissoko & Vincent Segal "Chamber Music" [Six Degrees Records] and all sound great on the HD800.
  
 But - these are great recordings to begin with. When your favorite musicians and their labels have the ambition to make technically great recordings, you will enjoy these on the HD800, no matter what specific style. If the music is heavily processed, multi track recordings pieced together and mixed for audiences using boom boxes and car radio on a truck, then listening to these recordings will be no fun on the HD800. These phones tell it like it is.


----------



## GardenVariety

mickeyvee said:


>


 

 I've wondered for quite awhile why Q Audio Cables need those earrings. They take away much from the look. I wouldn't buy them for this specific reason.


----------



## traehekat

Received the HD800 in the mail today and I have to say it has lived up to everything I have heard. Right now I am pairing it with either the CLAS -dB and ALO Rx mk3 or the Valhalla 1 and Bifrost Uber. After all the glowing reviews I ordered the Valhalla 2, so I have that to look forward to, as well. 
  
 In the meantime, do you guys have any cable recommendations? I am definitely experiencing some of the brightness and fatigue that comes with the HD800, so I would like something that tones down the brightness or "peakiness" of these headphones (or, if nothing else, does not exacerbate the issue). 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## ruthieandjohn

traehekat said:


> Received the HD800 in the mail today and I have to say it has lived up to everything I have heard. Right now I am pairing it with either the CLAS -dB and ALO Rx mk3 or the Valhalla 1 and Bifrost Uber. After all the glowing reviews I ordered the Valhalla 2, so I have that to look forward to, as well.
> 
> In the meantime, do you guys have any cable recommendations? I am definitely experiencing some of the brightness and fatigue that comes with the HD800, so I would like something that tones down the brightness or "peakiness" of these headphones (or, if nothing else, does not exacerbate the issue).
> 
> Thanks!


 

 I found that going to a balanced cable (if your amp, such as the Sennhesier HDVD800) supports it, makes things a bit darker.  Sennheiser sells a balanced cable.


----------



## Blackmore

Are they new? Whats their serial no?
  
 THX
  
 Quote:


traehekat said:


> Received the HD800 in the mail today and I have to say it has lived up to everything I have heard. Right now I am pairing it with either the CLAS -dB and ALO Rx mk3 or the Valhalla 1 and Bifrost Uber. After all the glowing reviews I ordered the Valhalla 2, so I have that to look forward to, as well.
> 
> In the meantime, do you guys have any cable recommendations? I am definitely experiencing some of the brightness and fatigue that comes with the HD800, so I would like something that tones down the brightness or "peakiness" of these headphones (or, if nothing else, does not exacerbate the issue).
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## RCBinTN

traehekat said:


> Received the HD800 in the mail today and I have to say it has lived up to everything I have heard. Right now I am pairing it with either the CLAS -dB and ALO Rx mk3 or the Valhalla 1 and Bifrost Uber. After all the glowing reviews I ordered the Valhalla 2, so I have that to look forward to, as well.
> 
> In the meantime, do you guys have any cable recommendations? I am definitely experiencing some of the brightness and fatigue that comes with the HD800, so I would like something that tones down the brightness or "peakiness" of these headphones (or, if nothing else, does not exacerbate the issue).
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 I am using the Sennheiser balanced cable CH800S.  I don't find the HD800 to be overly bright on most music.  I do not have after-market cables but info posted by other Head-Fi folks indicate that copper cables will reduce the bright treble.  One copper cable mentioned is the Moon Audio Black Dragon.  Here's the link:
  
 http://www.moon-audio.com/audio-cables.html 
  
 Cheers -
 RCBinTN


----------



## traehekat

27xxx


----------



## eflow

Trying to subscribe.


----------



## Acapella11

traehekat said:


> Received the HD800 in the mail today and I have to say it has lived up to everything I have heard. Right now I am pairing it with either the CLAS -dB and ALO Rx mk3 or the Valhalla 1 and Bifrost Uber. After all the glowing reviews I ordered the Valhalla 2, so I have that to look forward to, as well.
> 
> In the meantime, do you guys have any cable recommendations? I am definitely experiencing some of the brightness and fatigue that comes with the HD800, so I would like something that tones down the brightness or "peakiness" of these headphones (or, if nothing else, does not exacerbate the issue).
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 I recommend this single copper crystal litz cable highly: http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/index.php?route=product/category&path=17_94
  
 I like it a lot and in the Norne thread are quite a few very positive comments. Craftmanship and communication are excellent, too.


----------



## Johnny Moondog

When I purchased my HD800s in 2009, I had them shipped directly to Stefan AudioArt, where they were hardwired with balanced VOICE cables and XLR connectors.
  
 They are currently being modified with the Endorphin Balanced Hardwired Cable and HD800 Ultra-Modification.
  
 Stefan AudioArt came highly recommended when I auditioned headphones and amplifiers at RMAF. In a recent email correspondance regarding the Crayon CHA-1, Frederick Crane at Stereodesk commented on the above modifications with "That's my favorite HD800 recipe!"


----------



## erikfreedom

i have moon audio black dragon deluxe cable for my hd 800. single ended. it is well made, look good and was affordable. i love moon audio cables. i also have a silver dragon for my he-6. good stuff that is high quality and affordable.


----------



## pearljam50000

Hi, i've been trying to find the HD800 sound in speakers, and i think i found it in GENELEC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 They sound insanely good.


----------



## johnjen

johnny moondog said:


> When I purchased my HD800s in 2009, I had them shipped directly to Stefan AudioArt, where they were hardwired with balanced VOICE cables and XLR connectors.
> 
> They are currently being modified with the Endorphin Balanced Hardwired Cable and HD800 Ultra-Modification.
> 
> Stefan AudioArt came highly recommended when I auditioned headphones and amplifiers at RMAF. In a recent email correspondance regarding the Crayon CHA-1, Frederick Crane at Stereodesk commented on the above modifications with "That's my favorite HD800 recipe!"


 
 I can heartily approve of these mods (hardwired, endorphin, with their mod) for the 800.
  
 I would described the results as transformative.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 JJ


----------



## dreamwhisper

johnny moondog said:


> Crayon CHA-1


 
  
 A $10 000 amp with a $13 alps pot.
 That makes no sense.


----------



## zilch0md

dreamwhisper said:


> A $10 000 amp with a $13 alps pot.
> That makes no sense.




But it does make dollars and cents.

(i couldn't resist.)


----------



## Justin_Time

The whole chain has an impact on the sound.

For the HD800, I much prefer OCC copper cable ( Copper Venom by Toxic Cables).

But for taming the treble, I achieved the greatest impact with the Anaxilus modification to the HD800 itself.


----------



## Justin_Time

samuel777 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I would like to order one Headphone to be coupled with AK120 II / or Titan + Centranse HI M8 LX XL4.
> And i'm hesitating between HIFIMAN 400i / HIFIMAN 560 and Sennheiser HD 800 (my preference is going to HD 800) but would like to get confirmation ... as i have never listen to any of them.
> ...




The HD800 has the best chance due to its high efficiency though the combo may still be less than optimal because of the limited power of the AK120. You may want to consider the TH-900 as we'll.

Another thing you may want to consider is to have the AK120 modified by Vinnie at RWA, dropping the output impedance to better drive headphones.

Good Luck!


----------



## MannerPylon

Can anyone comment on how big a change/upgrade it would be if I move from my current M3 with SE outputs to BHA-1 with balanced outputs?
  
 Debating if it's worth the money. Thanks in advance.
  
 EDIT: Should probably throw in that I'm using the Gungnir as the DAC via optical/USB


----------



## lin0003

Feel like this is really my end game setup after a pair of RCA upgrades. I have heard the HD800 on a few higher end amps, but I don't really feel like that tiny upgrade is justifiable considering the price.


----------



## aaronbiggy

I read in an article that despite all claims, the Aug k 701 has the flattest frequency response.. . . Is it true. . And if yes, I know I shouldn't post this here. But which is the in ear monitor with the flattest response?


----------



## RCBinTN

eflow said:


> Trying to subscribe.


 
  
 Welcome to Head-Fi


----------



## RCBinTN

pearljam50000 said:


> Hi, i've been trying to find the HD800 sound in speakers, and i think i found it in GENELEC
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I went to their web site - interesting.  Which model did you go with?


----------



## IAMBLEST

I love my new set of HD800s running with the CH 800 S - very clean, transparent and neutral.  However, i do prefer the warmer sound of my Audeze LCD-3's which actually make me smile a bit more.  2 very different and distinctive sounds for sure.


----------



## analog'd

iamblest said:


> I love my new set of HD800s running with the CH 800 S - very clean, transparent and neutral.  However, i do prefer the warmer sound of my Audeze LCD-3's which actually make me smile a bit more.  2 very different and distinctive sounds for sure.


 

 I totally get it. but one o these minutes yer gonna push play on something, and think "man, i wish this sounded more open (or less veiled or had more clearly extended highs" or possibly "damn, that last recording sounded friggin' awesome but this one isn't quite up to snuff") and you're going to swap out yer lcd3s for the hd800s and you're gonna say "holy canoli"!!!

 then the 800s are gonna grow on you for certain types of music or certain recordings or what have you and you'll find yourself using them more than expected.

 nice 2 sets of cans to have at yer fingertips aren't they? I love the variety


----------



## IAMBLEST

analog'd said:


> I totally get it. but one o these minutes yer gonna push play on something, and think "man, i wish this sounded more open (or less veiled or had more clearly extended highs" or possibly "damn, that last recording sounded friggin' awesome but this one isn't quite up to snuff") and you're going to swap out yer lcd3s for the hd800s and you're gonna say "holy canoli"!!!
> 
> then the 800s are gonna grow on you for certain types of music or certain recordings or what have you and you'll find yourself using them more than expected.
> 
> nice 2 sets of cans to have at yer fingertips aren't they? I love the variety


 

 I love them both.  I got the HD800s at a decent price as well.  They are MUCH more comfortable and lighter than the LCD3 - but the LCD3 just..makes me smile when i use them..im not sure why but i just prefer a warmer sound. 
  
 Once thing i noticed, MP3s sound terrible with the HD800s..with the LCD3's it almost makes them sound passable and higher qualities.  You cant hide terrible recordings behind the Sennheisers...it really does highlight inefficiencies...


----------



## analog'd

iamblest said:


> analog'd said:
> 
> 
> > I totally get it. but one o these minutes yer gonna push play on something, and think "man, i wish this sounded more open (or less veiled or had more clearly extended highs" or possibly "damn, that last recording sounded friggin' awesome but this one isn't quite up to snuff") and you're going to swap out yer lcd3s for the hd800s and you're gonna say "holy canoli"!!!
> ...


 

 oh yeah, the mids of the lcds are warm and yummy. that is often what makes people smile and it, and the nature of the highs, are certainly waay more forgiving of less than stellar recordings / sources than the senns. such a great combo!


----------



## analog'd

analog'd said:


> iamblest said:
> 
> 
> > analog'd said:
> ...


 

 what cables have you on the lcds and the senns at this point?


----------



## IAMBLEST

analog'd said:


> what cables have you on the lcds and the senns at this point?


 
 Senns CH800S
 LCD3 - the balanced cable that came with it.
  
 Im fairly new to all this so dont know what i should be looking for. it sounds good to me but im sure there is something out there a lot better and more expensive!


----------



## analog'd

they should both sound good!

 I am running single ended so did not get the reference you'd made to the ch800s. I know zip about them.
 but an after market cable will open up the high end of the LCd3s some. many report a general "lifting of a veil" they didn't know was there. that was my experience.
 conversely, people go with after market cables on the hd800s to tame the highs a bit and for overall improvement. but as I said, I don't know the ch800s and it may be doing the trick for you already. certainly nothing to rush into. I used my lcd 3 default cables for a year happily before they failed. the I found both Q cables and Charleston cable company cables to be a very noticeable improvement over the originals.
  
 enjoy!
  
 oh, what's the rest of your path" (dac, amp and such); and are you playing high resolution files or analog or cds or mp3s or streaming or )?


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Using amp portion of WA7 for the HD800, would the Matrix X-Sabre or NAD M51 be a better pairing?


----------



## IAMBLEST

analog'd said:


> they should both sound good!
> 
> I am running single ended so did not get the reference you'd made to the ch800s. I know zip about them.
> but an after market cable will open up the high end of the LCd3s some. many report a general "lifting of a veil" they didn't know was there. that was my experience.
> ...


 
 OPPO HA-1 DAC/AMP
 Sennheiser HD800 w/Balanced
 Audeze LDC 3 w/Balanced
 Audioquest carbon USB cable
 Sony XA7ES Transport
 Jriver 19 Media Centre - playing flac, DSD, 384khz WAV
  
 Id post pics but it keeps saying i cant?


----------



## pearljam50000

8030( 5 inch woofer), but that's just because of my budget, you should get the 8040 model (6.5 inch woofer) or 8050 (8 inch woofer) if your room is big enough.
Of course, you should audition them first. There are tons of reviews online ^_^


rcbintn said:


> I went to their web site - interesting.  Which model did you go with?


----------



## ubs28

iamblest said:


> I love them both.  I got the HD800s at a decent price as well.  They are MUCH more comfortable and lighter than the LCD3 - but the LCD3 just..makes me smile when i use them..im not sure why but i just prefer a warmer sound.
> 
> Once thing i noticed, MP3s sound terrible with the HD800s..with the LCD3's it almost makes them sound passable and higher qualities.  You cant hide terrible recordings behind the Sennheisers...it really does highlight inefficiencies...


 

 Try dail in some warmth with a high equality EQ if you prefer a warmer sound.


----------



## wink

Quote:AaronBiggy 





> I read in an article that despite all claims, the Aug k 701 has the flattest frequency response.. . . Is it true. . And if yes, I know I shouldn't post this here.


 
_*DON"T*_ believe everything you read.


----------



## aaronbiggy

wink said:


> _*DON"T*_ believe everything you read.



Which is the in ear monitor with the flattest frequency response? Please reply. . . I posted in ie800 thread too


----------



## h1f1add1cted

I'm since a while in pure love with the HD800 (really new one S/N: 355xx), in my eyes (ears) with enabled crossfeed best headphones for classical music


----------



## ubs28

What is the best way to clean fingerprints of the grey mesh?


----------



## RRod

ubs28 said:


> What is the best way to clean fingerprints of the grey mesh?


 
  
 Microfiber cloth worked fine for me.


----------



## pearljam50000

I have a general question: Do you enjoy your HD800 or your speakers more? and if you could keep just one of them, which one would you keep?


----------



## ivanlyf

h1f1add1cted said:


> I'm since a while in pure love with the HD800 (really new one S/N: 355xx), in my eyes (ears) with enabled crossfeed best headphones for classical music


 
  
 Totally agree with you! I'm also a Classical music listener and the analytical nature of the HD800 is perfect for it.
  
 The accurate sound staging makes it even better -  you can pinpoint where the instruments are


----------



## ivanlyf

pearljam50000 said:


> I have a general question: Do you enjoy your HD800 or your speakers more? and if you could keep just one of them, which one would you keep?


 
  
 Tough choice. I own both speakers and headphones but I don't intend to sell either.
  
 I'm keeping the speakers because no matter what, speakers produce a "more natural" stereo image that makes the music enjoyable. It's the "musical" of my setup.
  
 I'm keeping the headphones because they are very analytical, so when I want to do in-depth listening to a piece of music, they fit the bill way better than my speakers.
  
 My 2 cents


----------



## h1f1add1cted

ivanlyf said:


> Totally agree with you! I'm also a Classical music listener and the analytical nature of the HD800 is perfect for it.
> 
> The accurate sound staging makes it even better -  you can pinpoint where the instruments are


 

 That's true, I compared all kind of headphones (incl. flag ships from HiFiMan, Audeze, AKG, Beyerdynamic) and only the really expensive STAX 009 tops the HD800 for classic music listening, but the big price difference and no portable use was a big no go for me. And with crossfeed enabled, the awesome sound stage from the HD800 is now like real stereo loud speakers and a dream setup for classic fans.


----------



## ubs28

h1f1add1cted said:


> That's true, I compared all kind of headphones (incl. flag ships from HiFiMan, Audeze, AKG, Beyerdynamic) and only the really expensive STAX 009 tops the HD800 for classic music listening, but the big price difference and no portable use was a big no go for me. And with crossfeed enabled, the awesome sound stage from the HD800 is now like real stereo loud speakers and a dream setup for classic fans.


 

 What do you use for crossfeed?


----------



## newtoears

Hello!
 I'm a new HD800 owner and would like a bit of advice on desktop amps 
 I'm running my HD800 off a Fiio X3 at the moment and honestly it sounds great. I'm generally using volume settings of about 25-35 out of 60 on high gain so the amp is clearly not working at max load. Bass is very nice and booming when the piece has lots of it (think John William's marches, Federick Fennell's interpretations etc.) and the soundstage is fabulous. I'm even picking up details (yes - even in the bass range) which I didn't' notice previously with my Roxanne IEMs
 How will a desktop amp (I'm looking at the Valhalla 2) change the listening experience? Would it just change the color of the sound so it sounds different (and more pleasing to some) or does it actually improve the sound coming out of the headphones?
 Thanks for your advice! Unfortunately I can't get to an audio shop for a while yet to come so I can only read up.


----------



## KT66

With all due respect to the X3, the HD800 surely deserves a much better source. Eg 901 or DX90?


----------



## h1f1add1cted

ubs28 said:


> What do you use for crossfeed?


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/15870#post_11161589
  
 The iFi micro iDSD built-in crossfeed is perfect (called 3D sound), no need for software solutions or other sources.


----------



## ivanlyf

newtoears said:


> Hello!
> I'm a new HD800 owner and would like a bit of advice on desktop amps
> I'm running my HD800 off a Fiio X3 at the moment and honestly it sounds great. I'm generally using volume settings of about 25-35 out of 60 on high gain so the amp is clearly not working at max load. Bass is very nice and booming when the piece has lots of it (think John William's marches, Federick Fennell's interpretations etc.) and the soundstage is fabulous. I'm even picking up details (yes - even in the bass range) which I didn't' notice previously with my Roxanne IEMs
> How will a desktop amp (I'm looking at the Valhalla 2) change the listening experience? Would it just change the color of the sound so it sounds different (and more pleasing to some) or does it actually improve the sound coming out of the headphones?
> Thanks for your advice! Unfortunately I can't get to an audio shop for a while yet to come so I can only read up.


 
  
 Agree with KT66 that you may want to consider a better source instead since the headphone amp that you are using seems able to drive the HD800 properly. So upgrading the source is a more value for money option - u will likely experience a greater upgrade with a DAC/source change vs amplifier change. 
  
However, to answer your question on how things will change if you upgrade to a desktop amplifier - I would say that you will probably get better amplification of the headphone because there is more space to play with to obtain a better design, and the ability to use mains power will increase the amp's power output. I can't comment on the Valhalla 2 though as I don't use tube amps.


----------



## MannerPylon

What are people's opinions on the best/good paired amps for the HD800 in the sub $1000 used price point? Trying to find out my end game amp or if I should just keep my M3 and accept this is as close to the pinnacle as I get.
  
 My current contenders are:
 Lehmann BCL
 Schiit Mjolnir
 Headamp GS-X mk2
 Violectric V200
 Bryston BHA-1


----------



## zilch0md

mannerpylon said:


> What are people's opinions on the best/good paired amps for the HD800 in the sub $1000 used price point? Trying to find out my end game amp or if I should just keep my M3 and accept this is as close to the pinnacle as I get.
> 
> My current contenders are:
> Lehmann BCL
> ...


 
  
 Which DAC are you using?   My Metrum Octave MkII saved me from selling my HD800.


----------



## MannerPylon

zilch0md said:


> Which DAC are you using?   My Metrum Octave MkII saved me from selling my HD800.


 

 Using a Schiit Gungnir


----------



## bfreedma

mannerpylon said:


> What are people's opinions on the best/good paired amps for the HD800 in the sub $1000 used price point? Trying to find out my end game amp or if I should just keep my M3 and accept this is as close to the pinnacle as I get.
> 
> My current contenders are:
> Lehmann BCL
> ...




The GSX MKII is a great amp but there's basically no chance you will find one used for under $1000. Or $2000.

Low production volume and long wait times keep used prices high.


----------



## MannerPylon

bfreedma said:


> The GSX MKII is a great amp but there's basically no chance you will find one used for under $1000. Or $2000.
> 
> Low production volume and long wait times keep used prices high.


 
 Yea... I thought about emailing justin to get in line.... but I don't think I have that kind of patience.


----------



## bfreedma

mannerpylon said:


> bfreedma said:
> 
> 
> > The GSX MKII is a great amp but there's basically no chance you will find one used for under $1000. Or $2000.
> ...




Completely understand. It's a very different buying experience.
I bought a Bryston BHA-1 to hold me over during the wait. I thought it was a very good amp - listened to a friends HD800 through it briefly and liked what I heard.


----------



## GardenVariety

mannerpylon said:


> What are people's opinions on the best/good paired amps for the HD800 in the sub $1000 used price point? Trying to find out my end game amp or if I should just keep my M3 and accept this is as close to the pinnacle as I get.
> 
> My current contenders are:
> Lehmann BCL
> ...


 
 The Burson Soloist is a great pairing.


----------



## Revogamer

Violectric V281
 Auralic Taurus
 Schiit Ragnarok
  
 Those are three i would seriously consider if you were looking at the GS-X~


----------



## Viper2005

mannerpylon said:


> What are people's opinions on the best/good paired amps for the HD800 in the sub $1000 used price point? Trying to find out my end game amp or if I should just keep my M3 and accept this is as close to the pinnacle as I get.
> 
> My current contenders are:
> Lehmann BCL
> ...




If I have to stay within the confines of the list, then I would pick the v200.
i had the v200 for over a year with the HD800 and it was a great pairing. The slightly warm character of the v200 really goes well with the HD800, made the highs smooth and detailed and also brought out midrange too.
Unfortunately I find the newer v281 loses some of that magic in the pursuit of increased highs and soundstage..


----------



## MannerPylon

viper2005 said:


> If I have to stay within the confines of the list, then I would pick the v200.
> i had the v200 for over a year with the HD800 and it was a great pairing. The slightly warm character of the v200 really goes well with the HD800, made the highs smooth and detailed and also brought out midrange too.
> Unfortunately I find the newer v281 loses some of that magic in the pursuit of increased highs and soundstage..


 
 Anything in particular that you would recommend that isn't on the list? Thanks for the input. I'm only transitioning now from mid-fi into higher end stuff and haven't had the chance to audition much of the better stuff.


----------



## XERO1

mannerpylon said:


> What are people's opinions on the best/good paired amps for the HD800 in the sub $1000 used price point? Trying to find out my end game amp or if I should just keep my M3 and accept this is as close to the pinnacle as I get.
> 
> My current contenders are:
> Lehmann BCL
> ...


 
  
 Another amp to consider that is pretty close to your price range is the $1300 April Music HP100 MkII.
  
 It has a On/Off bass boost switch that supposedly really enhances the HD 800's somewhat weak sounding low-end without adding any bloat.
  
 Haven't heard it myself, but it looks really promising.  Plus, it's also a full-function preamp with 3 inputs and 2 outputs and remote.
  
http://6moons.com/audioreviews/aprilmusic11/1.html


----------



## guido

and do not forget he B.M.C. Puredac [only in balanced mode]


----------



## Blackmore

I am using Sonic Pearl for my HD800 and its magical, but as always,  dont forget about the source.
  
 Enjoy everyone!


----------



## pearljam50000

Honestly when I had the HD800 I only had my PC and simple mp3 player, and they blew away anything I heard before(GS1000 and RS1 on a 2500$ system in a store)
I think they sound good on just about anything.


----------



## kazsud

bfreedma said:


> The GSX MKII is a great amp but there's basically no chance you will find one used for under $1000. Or $2000.
> 
> Low production volume and long wait times keep used prices high.


 

 I want to compare your's to my hdva600 and hear the pwd mkii w/ it


----------



## RCBinTN

mannerpylon said:


> Using a Schiit Gungnir


 
  
 I also have the Gungnir DAC and the Sennheiser HDVA600 amp.  That's a good combination for the HD800.  The HDVA600 is very quiet and smooth.  It lists for $1500, but I got mine new for $1000 as a promotion Sennheiser was running late this year.  You may be able to beat the $1500 list price.  
  
 I also have the Mjolnir that's on your list, but I don't have enough time with the Mjolnir and the HD800 to comment yet.
  
 No personal experience with the other amps on your list.


----------



## MannerPylon

rcbintn said:


> I also have the Gungnir DAC and the Sennheiser HDVA600 amp.  That's a good combination for the HD800.  The HDVA600 is very quiet and smooth.  It lists for $1500, but I got mine new for $1000 as a promotion Sennheiser was running late this year.  You may be able to beat the $1500 list price.
> 
> I also have the Mjolnir that's on your list, but I don't have enough time with the Mjolnir and the HD800 to comment yet.
> 
> No personal experience with the other amps on your list.


 
 Thanks for the heads up on the HDVA600, I had just assumed that it was probably out of my price range. I'll keep an eye out.
  
 Would love to hear your thoughts on the G/M+HD800 when you get a chance to listen to it more.


----------



## RCBinTN

mannerpylon said:


> Thanks for the heads up on the HDVA600, I had just assumed that it was probably out of my price range. I'll keep an eye out.
> 
> Would love to hear your thoughts on the G/M+HD800 when you get a chance to listen to it more.


 
  
 Sure will, sometime next week.
 The HDVA600 was reviewed by Jude as one of 2014's best desktop amps.  There's a link on the Head-Fi home page to his gift reviews.
  
 I'm listening right now to this music - sounds great - plenty of bass and of course great mids/treble.  The vocals are excellent.  The sound is not overly bright.  I think Sennheiser got it right with this amp.
  

  
 Cheers!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 RCBinTN


----------



## Viper2005

mannerpylon said:


> Anything in particular that you would recommend that isn't on the list? Thanks for the input. I'm only transitioning now from mid-fi into higher end stuff and haven't had the chance to audition much of the better stuff.


 
  
 The Ragnarok.  
 This is what I upgraded to from the V200.  
 Essentially more of what the v200 offered, smooth highs, great mids, and powerful lows.


----------



## bfreedma

kazsud said:


> bfreedma said:
> 
> 
> > The GSX MKII is a great amp but there's basically no chance you will find one used for under $1000. Or $2000.
> ...




Me too. Now that the holidays are over and I'm not hosting and feeding the hungry hordes, let's make it happen.


----------



## lamode

I'm planning to audition these tomorrow (as well as various Hifiman, Audeze, Beyerdynamic and other models). Can't wait to hear what the fuss is about!


----------



## bargyu

One vote for the Calyx 24/192 dac with the HDVD-800 (I know, but I have this one not the HDVA-600). Finally good setup for classical and modern music.


----------



## Samuel777

I have order an amp _Centrance HiFi-M8 LX XL4._
 I'm using it with the AK120 II, with Denon AHD600 - Sony 1RNC and share se846 and I enjoyed very much the Sound Quality.
 But it looks like they still have something i don't have and i'm running after and looking for.
 I would like to order the headphone HD800, i don't have the possibility to try before. so i'm wondering if my amp can drive these headphones. and also i will like the SQ ?
  
 do you have a link of cable (adaptor or direct cable) i can order in order to connect the HD 800 to the balanced port XL4 of the centrence amp ?
 Thank you for your advises and comments.
 sam


----------



## Dopaminer

lamode said:


> I'm planning to audition these tomorrow (as well as various Hifiman, Audeze, Beyerdynamic and other models). Can't wait to hear what the fuss is about!


 

 And ?  
  
 One of my fondest audiophile memories was the massive audition I did at a shop in Tokyo:  Marantz SA-11 SACD player through the Luxman P-700u headphone amp; HD800, T1, TH900, LCD-3, HD700, TH600.   The first to be disqualified, based on sound quality and comfort, were the Beyer T1 and the Fostexes (ironic since I am a huge Fostex speaker fan, and now own the Beyer T5P), then the LCD-3 (weight, cost and DIY-ishness) and finally the HD700 (which was in way over its head by that point.)  
  
 I think the HD800, and my current camera, are the two most regret-free purchases I`ve ever made.  
  
 What was your verdict ?


----------



## Dopaminer

samuel777 said:


> I have order an amp _Centrance HiFi-M8 LX XL4._
> I'm using it with the AK120 II, with Denon AHD600 - Sony 1RNC and share se846 and I enjoyed very much the Sound Quality.
> But it looks like they still have something i don't have and i'm running after and looking for.
> I would like to order the headphone HD800, i don't have the possibility to try before. so i'm wondering if my amp can drive these headphones. and also i will like the SQ ?
> ...


 

 Both your DX90 and your 120ii will drive the HD800 very very well; the HiFi-M8 will drive it even better.  The HD800 is not hard to drive - 102db sensitivity rating.  However,much of the reason for the huge size of this thread is that there is a very wide range of opinions on what drives the HD800 really *WELL*.  
  
 That of course can only be answered by you.  But since you can`t demo before buying, I will give you my opinion, which is that it is very very difficult not to like the HD800, and out of the M8 it will be difficult not to *LOVE* it.  
  
 There are hundreds of XLR4 cable options for the HD800, including Senn`s own (over-priced) cable. . . .


----------



## Samuel777

dopaminer said:


> Both your DX90 and your 120ii will drive the HD800 very very well; the HiFi-M8 will drive it even better.  The HD800 is not hard to drive - 102db sensitivity rating.  However,much of the reason for the huge size of this thread is that there is a very wide range of opinions on what drives the HD800 really *WELL*.
> 
> That of course can only be answered by you.  But since you can`t demo before buying, I will give you my opinion, which is that it is very very difficult not to like the HD800, and out of the M8 it will be difficult not to *LOVE* it.
> 
> There are hundreds of XLR4 cable options for the HD800, including Senn`s own (over-priced) cable. . . .


 

 Thanik so much for your contribution, i really appreciate.
 i think also that i will love the SQ of the HD800. i will proceed to the order.
 B&H gave me a big promo : 1021 USD (shippi,g cost include), i will not miss that opportunity 
  
 As you mentioned the cable price of senns is out out reach, could you give me other links ?
  
 thanks
 Sam


----------



## SilentFrequency

dopaminer said:


> Both your DX90 and your 120ii will drive the HD800 very very well; the* HiFi-M8 *will drive it even better.  The HD800 is not hard to drive - 102db sensitivity rating.  However,much of the reason for the huge size of this thread is that there is a very wide range of opinions on what drives the HD800 really *WELL*.
> 
> That of course can only be answered by you.  But since you can`t demo before buying, I will give you my opinion, which is that it is very very difficult not to like the HD800, *and out of the M8 it will be difficult not to LOVE it.  *
> 
> There are hundreds of XLR4 cable options for the HD800, including Senn`s own (over-priced) cable. . . .




I totally agree!


----------



## SilentFrequency

lamode said:


> I'm planning to audition these tomorrow (as well as various Hifiman, Audeze, Beyerdynamic and other models). Can't wait to hear what the fuss is about!




I don't know if you have checked the other thread discussing the new Sennheiser flagship model but it has been mentioned that the hd800 is now being discounted and unavailable to buy from some Sennheiser sites with speculation that this maybe because of an hd800 replacement ie hd900?

So you may be able to buy an hd800 at a great price now or possibly even wait for the new model?


----------



## Blackmore

Guys, do you think HD900 are coming?


----------



## Dopaminer

samuel777 said:


> Thanik so much for your contribution, i really appreciate.
> i think also that i will love the SQ of the HD800. i will proceed to the order.
> B&H gave me a big promo : 1021 USD (shippi,g cost include), i will not miss that opportunity
> 
> ...


 

 That`s a great price; I paid about the same in Tokyo last year.  There are so many cable options for the HD800, from Ebay on up to the custom builders; there doesn`t seem to be any upper limit on what can be spent.   I really like the Forza cables, and the guy is really nice to deal with.  I`ve also been checking out the Norne Audio page recently and his stuff looks great, too.  I think from now on I will try DIY.  I`m sure there are a lot of people who can recommend cablers.  
  
 Take a look at these 
  
 http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/category.php?id_category=36
 http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/index.php?route=product/category&path=17


----------



## Sorrodje

I bought my balanced cable here : http://stores.ebay.com/ilikevenusaudio
  
 I'm very Happy with it


----------



## SilentFrequency

blackmore said:


> Guys, do you think HD900 are coming?




I think so, as manufacturers of all goods release new an improved models, so it just makes perfect sense?

I wonder also if Sennheiser would release a closed back type if current HD800 and/or even with possible HD900?


----------



## Dopaminer

HD850.  
  
 It would compliment my FX850.


----------



## Samuel777

sorrodje said:


> I bought my balanced cable here : http://stores.ebay.com/ilikevenusaudio
> 
> I'm very Happy with it


 

 Thank you, but which one have you bought ? there are so many on that web site.


----------



## thomascrown

sorrodje said:


> I bought my balanced cable here : http://stores.ebay.com/ilikevenusaudio
> 
> I'm very Happy with it




Same here, good price and build quality awesome customer service


----------



## guido

samuel777 said:


> Thank you, but which one have you bought ? there are so many on that web site.


 

 only one for HD-800
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cardas-HD-800-Sennheiser-3m-Headphone-Cable-Balanced-Neutrik-Gold-Furutech-1-4-/121494118287


----------



## lamode

dopaminer said:


> And ?
> 
> One of my fondest audiophile memories was the massive audition I did at a shop in Tokyo:  Marantz SA-11 SACD player through the Luxman P-700u headphone amp; HD800, T1, TH900, LCD-3, HD700, TH600.   The first to be disqualified, based on sound quality and comfort, were the Beyer T1 and the Fostexes (ironic since I am a huge Fostex speaker fan, and now own the Beyer T5P), then the LCD-3 (weight, cost and DIY-ishness) and finally the HD700 (which was in way over its head by that point.)
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well this was my first listening session, after being without headphones for some time (my Sennheiser HD650s were destroyed in a flood). My last 3 phones were all Sennheiser but now there are a few new players so I wanted to finally hear various makes and models for myself. The shop I went to was very small and a bit noisy, so far from perfect conditions. They also didn't have so many models to try, but I did try some models from Sennheiser, Grado, Audeze, Beyerdynamic and Hifiman which I think is a good start. I listened through my Macbook running Audirvana Plus v2, which directly output to an Arcam DAC via USB. Some tracks I selected were 24/96, some were 16/44. Various genres from classical to EDM.

 To cut a long story short, the Audeze LCD-X blew me away with their natural sound and were my clear favourites. The Beyerdynamic T5p really impressed for the price, the T1 was very similar to T5p, and then I liked the Sennheisers. I didn't like the Grado PS1000 and Hifiman HE-560.
  
 I thought I would like the HD800 more, and perhaps they (and the others) would perform better with a different DAC, but the difference to me between the LCD-X and HD800 was not subtle. The HD800 had a much more limited expression of sounds, so it was pleasant but still sounded like headphones. I thought the Audeze were natural, especially the female vocal on "Vivaldi: Belezza Crudel - Recitative And Aria From Cantata Rv 679" from the wonderful 24/192 recording "The Nordic Sound: 2L Audiophile Reference Recordings".
  
 In a perfect world I would buy the Audeze for home listening, where an open design won't bother anyone, and the T5p for portable/office use. The Audeze just doesn't strike me as a headphone you would ever use outdoors or in an office environment.
  
 The T5p really impressed with sound, compact size, and use-them-anywhere practicality (and they were half the price of the Audeze in this particular shop). I'll keep looking around for now. It was a very interesting session!


----------



## Chodi

lamode said:


> Well this was my first listening session, after being without headphones for some time (my Sennheiser HD650s were destroyed in a flood). My last 3 phones were all Sennheiser but now there are a few new players so I wanted to finally hear various makes and models for myself. The shop I went to was very small and a bit noisy, so far from perfect conditions. They also didn't have so many models to try, but I did try some models from Sennheiser, Grado, Audeze, Beyerdynamic and Hifiman which I think is a good start. I listened through my Macbook running Audirvana Plus v2, which directly output to an Arcam DAC via USB. Some tracks I selected were 24/96, some were 16/44. Various genres from classical to EDM.
> 
> To cut a long story short, the Audeze LCD-X blew me away with their natural sound and were my clear favourites. The Beyerdynamic T5p really impressed for the price, the T1 was very similar to T5p, and then I liked the Sennheisers. I didn't like the Grado PS1000 and Hifiman HE-560.
> 
> ...


 
 The HD800 are extremely dependent on the front end. Having said that. you may just not like their sound. From your comments I wonder if you have tried the Hifiman HE500? It has some of the sound quality of the LCDX for far less cost. Might be worth a listen. The weight of the LCDX put me off but I agree they sound is very musical. The HE500 can be had for a very reasonable price these days and it is very different from the HE560.


----------



## lamode

chodi said:


> The HD800 are extremely dependent on the front end. Having said that. you may just not like their sound. From your comments I wonder if you have tried the Hifiman HE500? It has some of the sound quality of the LCDX for far less cost. Might be worth a listen. The weight of the LCDX put me off but I agree they sound is very musical. The HE500 can be had for a very reasonable price these days and it is very different from the HE560.


 

 I would certainly like to listen to more options but I have rather limited listening opportunities in my area.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

HIFiman just announced the launch of the HE1000 Flagship, super thin transducer and single sided magnets....when is the new Senny Flagship coming?


----------



## Sorrodje

guido said:


> only one for HD-800
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cardas-HD-800-Sennheiser-3m-Headphone-Cable-Balanced-Neutrik-Gold-Furutech-1-4-/121494118287


 
  
 Yup . I bought the same cable. Very serious build. the cable is a bit stiff maybe but far less than the Stock one. It fits the bill perfectly for my use.


----------



## Sorrodje

wildcatsare1 said:


> HIFiman just announced the launch of the HE1000 Flagship, super thin transducer and single sided magnets....when is the new Senny Flagship coming?


 
  
 Why should we care about that ? Is there a competition somewhere ? Are we talking about sound and music or sports ?


----------



## XERO1

silentfrequency said:


> I don't know if you have checked the other thread discussing the new Sennheiser flagship model but it has been mentioned that the hd800 is now being discounted and unavailable to buy from some Sennheiser sites with speculation that this maybe because of an hd800 replacement ie hd900?


 
  
 I wouldn't get too excited.  The 598, 600, 650 & 700 are also sold out on the Sennheiser website.


----------



## Blackmore

They just may clean up the stock and making extra buck for this year end.


----------



## XERO1

blackmore said:


> They just may clean up the stock and making extra buck for this year end.


 
  
 Dare to dream!


----------



## lin0003

I have a feeling the new Sennheiser flagship will be electrostatic and in the range of $5K. Lucky for me I won't even dream of buying it lol, I hope it is way too expensive for me to buy so I won't even consider it. 
  
 TBH is is very hard to make solid improvements on the HD800 though. The only headphone I would take over it is the SR-009 and not by a large margin either.


----------



## James-uk

It would take something very special to pull me away from the HD800 now. I do hope they announce something at CES though just because I enjoy the hype train.


----------



## XERO1

> Originally Posted by *lin0003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> TBH is is very hard to make solid improvements on the HD800 though. The only headphone I would take over it is the SR-009 and not by a large margin either.


 
  
 +1


----------



## Soned

Took the plunge and purchased a HD800 yesterday.After just one evening of listening paired with my Bakoon HPA-21 I am floored.There are many reviews singing the praises of this match, and now I know why.


----------



## zilch0md

soned said:


> Took the plunge and purchased a HD800 yesterday.After just one evening of listening paired with my Bakoon HPA-21 I am floored.There are many reviews singing the praises of this match, and now I know why.


 
  
 Wow, congratulations!  You've jumped right over all of the misery of trying to find a good DAC and amp combo for the HD800.
  
 Mike


----------



## zerodeefex

If you like the Bakoon, wait until you hear the HD800 with the Triad L3 Lion. It's one hell of an amp. 
  
 The Geek Out SE > Triad L3 Lion stack is darn good with the HD800s. Best transportable stack I've heard for the HD800, even over the Hugo > Bakoon.
  
 Edit: just realized you're talking about the 21, not the 01 . Nevermind!


----------



## pearljam50000

if i can't afford anything more expensive than the HD800, is there any reason to wait for the new flagship and not get the HD800? is there any chance it will cost the same?
 thanks.


----------



## yzhengyu

pearljam50000 said:


> if i can't afford anything more expensive than the HD800, is there any reason to wait for the new flagship and not get the HD800? is there any chance it will cost the same?
> thanks.


 
  
 Judging by how much prices has increased since it's release, the new flagship (if there is one) will be more expensive, not less.


----------



## RCBinTN

dopaminer said:


> Both your DX90 and your 120ii will drive the HD800 very very well; the HiFi-M8 will drive it even better.  The HD800 is not hard to drive - 102db sensitivity rating.  However,much of the reason for the huge size of this thread is that there is a very wide range of opinions on what drives the HD800 really *WELL*.
> 
> That of course can only be answered by you.  But since you can`t demo before buying, I will give you my opinion, which is that it is very very difficult not to like the HD800, and out of the M8 it will be difficult not to *LOVE* it.
> 
> There are hundreds of XLR4 cable options for the HD800, including Senn`s own (over-priced) cable. . . .


 
  
 I don't agree the Senn balanced cable is over priced.  I have two, one for each of my HD800's, and they seem to be fine quality.  They're also 3-meters long.  Try pricing a 3-meter cable at Moon Audio.  IMO.


----------



## MickeyVee

Happy New Year all! _(ok, a little early _
  
 What a great place to have my 1500th post on HeadFi. Since I joined HeadFi, I don't think that I've owned ay pair of headphones for more than six months and some as little as a month, until the HD800.  I purchased my HD800 in May of 2013 and am still absolutely in love with them.  I seem to enjoy them more and more everyday and since I got the McIntosh MHA100 at the beginning of November, I finally believe that my HeadFi upgradities has finally come to an end.. now just thinking of all the money that can go into music.
  
 I feel privileged to be part of such a great community even though at times, the journey has been tumultuous, I have met some great people online and at local meets and have learned a lot from this community.  A big thanks to Jude, the HeadFi community and the people I have learned so much from, many of whom have contributed to this thread.
  
 As I write this, I'm listening to Hugh Masekela through my AK100 II and am thoroughly enjoying the HD800.
  
 Happy Listening! M


----------



## RCBinTN

mickeyvee said:


> Happy New Year all! _(ok, a little early _
> 
> What a great place to have my 1500th post on HeadFi. Since I joined HeadFi, I don't think that I've owned ay pair of headphones for more than six months and some as little as a month, until the HD800.  I purchased my HD800 in May of 2013 and am still absolutely in love with them.  I seem to enjoy them more and more everyday and since I got the McIntosh MHA100 at the beginning of November, I finally believe that my HeadFi upgradities has finally come to an end.. now just thinking of all the money that can go into music.
> 
> ...


 
  
 +100  What a great post
  






 
 RCBinTN


----------



## Dopaminer

rcbintn said:


> I don't agree the Senn balanced cable is over priced.  I have two, one for each of my HD800's, and they seem to be fine quality.  They're also 3-meters long.  Try pricing a 3-meter cable at Moon Audio.  IMO.


 

 I guess I find it overprices because all they did was solder an XLR4 on to the stock cable, and then charge over 300$ for it.  You can get a lighter, more flexible cable from the 3rd party guys and Ebay for much less. . .


----------



## Dopaminer

mickeyvee said:


> Happy New Year all! _(ok, a little early _
> 
> What a great place to have my 1500th post on HeadFi. Since I joined HeadFi, I don't think that I've owned ay pair of headphones for more than six months and some as little as a month, until the HD800.  I purchased my HD800 in May of 2013 and am still absolutely in love with them.  I seem to enjoy them more and more everyday and since I got the McIntosh MHA100 at the beginning of November, I finally believe that my HeadFi upgradities has finally come to an end.. now just thinking of all the money that can go into music.
> 
> ...


 

 Nice.  Happy New Year to everyone  
  
 1.5 years in HD800 Heaven, recenlty injected with even more amazing sound bliss : speaker tap XLR4 adaptor for my balanced Denon speaker amp.  Whole New World.  
  
 All the best for 2015 ! 
  
 d


----------



## Samuel777

rcbintn said:


> I don't agree the Senn balanced cable is over priced.  I have two, one for each of my HD800's, and they seem to be fine quality.  They're also 3-meters long.  Try pricing a 3-meter cable at Moon Audio.  IMO.


 

 Please give me the exact link to see those cables


----------



## jochenb

xero1 said:


> I wouldn't get too excited.  The 598, 600, 650 & 700 are also sold out on the Sennheiser website.


 
  
 It doesn't seem to be about being sold out. Over here in Europe Sennheiser completely removed the "buy" button for the HD800.


----------



## RCBinTN

samuel777 said:


> Please give me the exact link to see those cables


 
  
 The Sennheiser product number is CH800S.  They are available on Sennheiser's website, or I bought mine at Crutchfield in NY.
 www.crutchfield.com


----------



## XERO1

jochenb said:


> It doesn't seem to be about being sold out. Over here in Europe Sennheiser completely removed the "buy" button for the HD800.


 
  
 Interesting .......


----------



## Samuel777

Hello,
 i have found another cable with 4Pin for the HD800.
 here is the link : http://www.aloaudio.com/the-green-line-headphone-cable-updated
 Could you tell me if that câble is better than the stock one we have with the 4 Pin XLR Balanced ?
 if the sound Quality will be better than with the stock cable ?
 the price is also interested.
 thx


----------



## skeptic

samuel777 said:


> Hello,
> i have found another cable with 4Pin for the HD800.
> here is the link : http://www.aloaudio.com/the-green-line-headphone-cable-updated
> Could you tell me if that câble is better than the stock one we have with the 4 Pin XLR Balanced ?
> ...


 
  
 Lest we derail the thread, I think your question might be better posed in the cable forum: http://www.head-fi.org/f/21/cables-power-tweaks-speakers-accessories-dbt-free-forum
  
 To drill to the end point - people will have a wide range of opinions on which cables sound best and/or whether the gage of certain cables precludes all of the wire strands from physically attaching to the hd800 connectors.  Although there are no measurements to support that any cables sound any better than other cables (unless one of them is broken), most of us would agree that the standard array of audio measurements don't tell the whole story.  (Amp manufacturers, for example, rarely even measure for TIM although many of us believe it is a very important consideration).  Lots of us have perceived improvements by using aftermarket cables - then again, we have a psychological investment in hearing such changes.  Same deal as expensive wine.  It would be a shame to drop big dollars on a particular bottle and then go on the net and report that it tastes about the same as your average $25 nappa cab.  YMMV.


----------



## koiloco

skeptic said:


> Lest we derail the thread, I think your question might be better posed in the cable forum: http://www.head-fi.org/f/21/cables-power-tweaks-speakers-accessories-dbt-free-forum
> 
> To drill to the end point - people will have a wide range of opinions on which cables sound best and/or whether the gage of certain cables precludes all of the wire strands from physically attaching to the hd800 connectors.  Although there are no measurements to support that any cables sound any better than other cables (unless one of them is broken), most of us would agree that the standard array of audio measurements don't tell the whole story.  (Amp manufacturers, for example, rarely even measure for TIM although many of us believe it is a very important consideration). * Lots of us have perceived improvements by using aftermarket cables - then again, we have a psychological investment in hearing such changes.  Same deal as expensive wine.  It would be a shame to drop big dollars on a particular bottle and then go on the net and report that it tastes about the same as your average $25 nappa cab.  YMMV.*


 
 Very honest input!  well said


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco said:


> skeptic said:
> 
> 
> > Lest we derail the thread, I think your question might be better posed in the cable forum: http://www.head-fi.org/f/21/cables-power-tweaks-speakers-accessories-dbt-free-forum
> ...


 
 Yep...like these brand new Toxic Cables Silver Widow 22ga Litz cables. First set in the USA arrived today!

  

  

 Burning them in on a Cavalli Liquid Crimson amp. Happy New Year!


----------



## Soned

zilch0md said:


> Wow, congratulations!  You've jumped right over all of the misery of trying to find a good DAC and amp combo for the HD800.
> 
> Mike


 
 I source directly from my OPPO BDP-95.It was inevitable that I end up with the HD800/LCDX seeing as it's pairing with the Bakoon is what originally sold me on the amp.Now along with the LCDX and modified Denon  AH-*D7000 ( Lawton LA7000) , I have the sound signature variety I was striving for. *




  
 Now comes the aftermarket cable question LOL


----------



## hammelgammler

Does anyone know, what the current highest serial number is?
  
 I would have an offer and he says it has a 5003XX serial number, could that be possible?


----------



## XERO1

hammelgammler said:


> Does anyone know, what the current highest serial number is?
> 
> I would have an offer and he says it has a 5003XX serial number, could that be possible?


 
  
 Going by what's been posted on the HD 800 FR certificate thread, the newest serial #'s are in 33000's.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/433059/sennheiser-hd800-certificate-for-frequency-response-arrived/600


----------



## lukeap69

Sounds right. I've purchased mine during BF promos from Senn online store and the serial number is 338XX.


----------



## hammelgammler

Yeah i think he thought the product number is the serial number, because the product number is 500319.


----------



## kazsud

Interesting. I thought hd800s didn't fair well with speaker taps?


----------



## GardenVariety

Mine are 33XXX purchased a couple months ago.


----------



## Acapella11

jochenb said:


> It doesn't seem to be about being sold out. Over here in Europe Sennheiser completely removed the "buy" button for the HD800.


 
  
 Interesting, four over ear models had their buy buttons removed: HD800, RS220, MM 500-X, PC 350 SE.


----------



## ubs28

acapella11 said:


> Interesting, four over ear models had their buy buttons removed: HD800, RS220, MM 500-X, PC 350 SE.


 

 Also the HDVD600 and HDVD800 DAC + Amps. If the HD800 and HDVDX00 are hand-made, it's simply due to holiday demands (alot of people buy things around this time of period) and Sennheiser workers on holiday.
  
 The HD650 and HD600 are still being sold for example so that won't be a reason for a new flagship headphone.


----------



## citraian

ubs28 said:


> Also the HDVD600 and HDVD800 DAC + Amps. If the HD800 and HDVDX00 are hand-made, it's simply due to holiday demands (alot of people buy things around this time of period) and Sennheiser workers on holiday.
> 
> The HD650 and HD600 are still being sold for example so that won't be a reason for a new flagship headphone.



Exactly my thoughts


----------



## bfreedma

Could also be part of a website refresh. Wouldn't be unusual to schedule that after the holiday sales rush.


----------



## paradoxper

It's really a sign that Sennheiser is going under.


----------



## GardenVariety

paradoxper said:


> It's really a sign that Sennheiser is going under.


 

 I have it on good authority it's due to a merger with Beats and impending flagship model "HD800XL Studio" due to release this Spring.


----------



## pearljam50000

Don't forget the HD800 "Hello kitty" version


----------



## Blackmore

If Sennheiser planned anything new, they may show that on coming Las Vegas Hi-Fi show.


----------



## BobFiggins

Looking to purchase an HD800 next week (or in 3 weeks, depends how badly I want to eat ramen for the next two weeks). To say I'm excited would be an understatement.
  
 I can already power an HD800 from my sound card, and the dac is probably good enough to hold me over for a while. Though would really like a nice setup eventually. 
  
 Here are a few combinations I've been looking at so far:
  
 Fiio E18 (Something for home and mobile use)
 Modi 2 Uber / Valhalla 2
 Modi 2 Uber / Lyr (Not sure I'd care too much for rolling. Is the Lyr just a Valhalla with rolling tubes?)
 Crack OTL + Speedball (Would need to find a pre-built version) (Also would need a recommended DAC to pair it with, unless it comes with one)
 Triad L3 Lion / Geek Out SE (Recommended by zerodeefex)
  
 My dac/amp budget would be $1000, but would definitely prefer to spend less. If I can get good sound (even if it's not absolutely perfect) for less, that's the way I'd like to go. I've heard the Schiit Bifrost is good, but then I've already read the Modi 2 Uber is essentially a mini Bifrost. Not sure how true that statement is, but it's surely cheaper. As for mobile amp/dac setups, are they just not as good, or does a mobile solution exist for plugging into your smartphone such as the E18 that can sound almost, or as good as a desktop setup?
  
 Thanks for your help guys.


----------



## MannerPylon

An amp you might want to consider that I've found to pair well with the HD800's and others have recommended as well is the M^3. They're a bit harder to come by these days, they're a bit of an oldie by a goodie and you can probably get a good deal on one that'll punch above your its weight in terms of value.
  
 Full disclosure, I say that while currently listing mine on the marketplace, though I'm considering keeping it for future use as a change of pace amp to my incoming BHA-1.
  
 EDIT: As for the Modi 2, I haven't heard it yet but the Modi was very good for the price. I currently own an optical version and used to own a USB one. I can't tell you how well it pairs with the HD800's though since it's my office DAC.


----------



## MattTCG

Modi 2 uber and the Valhalla 2 May be the killer budget combo for the 800. Gets my recommendation.


----------



## zerodeefex

I wouldn't recommend the geek out SE + L3 lion for a desktop setup. The combo costs $1700. For that money you can get something beefier. That's a great combo due to portability. 

$1700 is dicey territory. At that price range I'd do wyrd + modi 2 + Valhalla 2 and save up for the Yggdrasil.


----------



## MannerPylon

It also depends if you know yourself to be tinkerer and are looking for a system for now that you'll experiment later with or know you eventually want aim long term for the big money stuff. Not everyone has Ygg+Rok aspirations (not speaking specifically to those two products but rather the price range). If you're looking to set a budget now as your end-game budget range it's a different story.


----------



## Zoom25

bobfiggins said:


> Looking to purchase an HD800 next week (or in 3 weeks, depends how badly I want to eat ramen for the next two weeks). To say I'm excited would be an understatement.
> 
> I can already power an HD800 from my sound card, and the dac is probably good enough to hold me over for a while. Though would really like a nice setup eventually.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This works really well with HD800: http://www.dangerousmusic.com/products/source


----------



## BobFiggins

Thanks for the tips. Going to go with the Modi 2 Uber / Valhalla 2. Always wanted a pile of Schiit. 
  
 Curious though, what would I notice to indicate needing to get a Wyrd also? Is this something you need due to how revealing the HD800 is?
  
 Upgrading from an M50 to the HD800. I probably don't even understand how good this will be.


----------



## whirlwind

bobfiggins said:


> Thanks for the tips. Going to go with the Modi 2 Uber / Valhalla 2. Always wanted a pile of Schiit.
> 
> Curious though, what would I notice to indicate needing to get a Wyrd also? Is this something you need due to how revealing the HD800 is?
> 
> Upgrading from an M50 to the HD800. I probably don't even understand how good this will be.


 
 Wow.....talk about a sweet upgrade....you are in for some "wow"  moments.
  
 Enjoy


----------



## R4WBIT

Feeling a bit underwhelmed going from my P7s to the HD800. Guess this will change over time... My first open can aswell. Not noticing a lot of diffrence yet.


----------



## Sorrodje

bobfiggins said:


> Thanks for the tips. Going to go with the Modi 2 Uber / Valhalla 2. Always wanted a pile of Schiit.
> 
> Curious though, what would I notice to indicate needing to get a Wyrd also? Is this something you need due to how revealing the HD800 is?
> 
> Upgrading from an M50 to the HD800. I probably don't even understand how good this will be.




IMO, you have serious chance to be disappointed. M50 and hd800 have so different sound sigs... I think your brain will need time to get habituated.

My 2 cents.


----------



## BobFiggins

Unlike many of the fanboys, I actually don't like the M50. It's the best that I've got at the moment, and the best headphones I've owned, but am not overall happy with them. The low end, and low mids sound muddy and boomy, and the soundstage feels inverted. Sounds that should be in front of me sound like they are in the back of my head (Yes, I'm wearing them correctly). I also find them a bit too heavy. I wouldn't even call them warm. I would compare them to machinery in the way they sound. Just seems somewhat forced. I find myself listening to them unamped and at 50% volume on purpose just to enjoy them more.
  
 I've lurked long enough here and on Reddit to know that I'm more interested in jumping hard into a new playing field, rather than slowly running to the end (upgrading little by little). I've read enough stories about people who get new headphones that should be better, but are disappointed. Even if I dislike the HD800 at first, I will keep listening to them, and after a few days of use go back to the M50 to see how much worse they are in every way.


----------



## zilch0md

bobfiggins said:


> [snip]
> 
> *Upgrading from an M50 to the HD800.* I probably don't even understand how good this will be.


 
  
 That's one giant step!


----------



## MannerPylon

Well you've skipped a lot of steps on the audiophile ramp up to the HD800s which is both good and bad. Climbing the ladder lets you fully appreciate when you get to the top but it also costs a lot more money in the end. Like you, I first had a pair of M50's, I actually found that I became the most displeased with their sound after I paired them with a decent source/amp. Now they're just a dedicated vacuuming/dishwashing/other things around the house headphone.
  
 Although I've only owned my HD800's for a bit over a week and a half now I'm definitely enjoying them and they beat anything I've previously owned.


----------



## Sorrodje

> Even if I dislike the HD800 at first, I will keep listening to them, and after a few days of use go back to the M50 to see how much worse they are in every way.


 
  
  
 Wise plan indeed  . I hate the M50 myself so I can understand where you 're coming from. Take the time, Buy an appropriate and affordable stack and make your own opinion after weeks of careful listening. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 The main problem with the HD800 is not to buy it or even to enjoy it during the first time... the real story begins after the honeymoon  .


----------



## longbowbbs

sorrodje said:


> the real story begins after the honeymoon  .


 
 Tweaking the chain....


----------



## Priidik

bobfiggins said:


> Unlike many of the fanboys, I actually don't like the M50. I find myself listening to them unamped and at 50% volume on purpose just to enjoy them more.


 
 I agree, these are massively overhyped, but what sort of amplification do you use? I thought they improved quite a bit hooked to a decent amp. Gave them some dynamics capability, but still no resolution..


----------



## BobFiggins

SupremeFX Impact 2 sound card, or a Fiio E6. It definitely adds dynamics. It still feels forced to me, like heavy machinery. It's interesting because I started with an XB500, found out that I'm not all about that bass. Got the M50 because it was supposed to be neutral, and it leaned more towards a hard hitting headphone than feeling neutral to me. At least unamped it sounds decent, but the soundstage is still inverted in my face.
  
 Anyways, still face the difficult decision of buying the HD800 on the 9th, or waiting till the 16th and not have to eat ramen, beans and rice every day. Glad for all the holiday pay this last month + Christmas, made this all possible. I am actually concerned I'm going to buy the HD800 then it will go in sale a week afterwards, hah.


----------



## Bogart24

When I first got my HD800 I was disappointed.  Soundstage was great but sounded veiled and fatiguing.  Then I read burn-in is recommended so I let it run a couple of days.  Listened last night on my Woo WA2.  Spectacular.


[edited to remove regrettable remark]


----------



## MannerPylon

bogart24 said:


> When I first got my HD800 I was disappointed.  Soundstage was great but sounded veiled and fatiguing.  Then I read burn-in is recommended so I let it run a couple of days.  Listened last night on my Woo WA2.  Spectacular.  Anyone who dismisses the idea of burn-in must have no ear for music.


 
 ...we already dodged a fight with that cable hiccup a few pages back let's not start one here.
  
 I do agree with you that burn-in may exist but let's not rush to dismiss the opinions of others.


----------



## HPiper

I would like to get some ideas of a good amplifier for my HD800's and HD650's. Currently using a Lyr (not a version 2) and it is sounding just fine but I need a second amp for the bedroom. I am considering just getting another Lyr or possibly a Valhalla 2 but I would like some other options if you have any. Would like something along that same price ($500) or less.


----------



## Chodi

hpiper said:


> I would like to get some ideas of a good amplifier for my HD800's and HD650's. Currently using a Lyr (not a version 2) and it is sounding just fine but I need a second amp for the bedroom. I am considering just getting another Lyr or possibly a Valhalla 2 but I would like some other options if you have any. Would like something along that same price ($500) or less.


 
 You might want to check out this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/735828/gustard-h10-high-current-discrete-class-a-output-stage-headphone-amplifier


----------



## MattTCG

Valhalla 2 is a great option and complements both hp's exceptionally. Also consider:
  
 *Bottlehead Crack
  
 *Woo wa3
  
 *Schiit Vali


----------



## GardenVariety

bogart24 said:


> When I first got my HD800 I was disappointed.  Soundstage was great but sounded veiled and fatiguing.  Then I read burn-in is recommended so I let it run a couple of days.  Listened last night on my Woo WA2.  Spectacular.  Anyone who dismisses the idea of burn-in must have no ear for music.


 

 I'm a little shocked that you felt the sound of the HD800 was veiled. To me, and many others, it's the most analytical headphone out there. As far as burn in, some may argue that it's nothing more than your ear adjusting to the sound of your new headphones. The HD800's sounded amazing right off the bat for me. But then again, I probably don't have an ear for music.


----------



## Bogart24

gardenvariety said:


> I'm a little shocked that you felt the sound of the HD800 was veiled. To me, and many others, it's the most analytical headphone out there. As far as burn in, some may argue that it's nothing more than your ear adjusting to the sound of your new headphones. The HD800's sounded amazing right off the bat for me. But then again, I probably don't have an ear for music.




They don't sound veiled now. And I'm not sure that's the best word to describe what I experienced on day one. I certainly don't mean not analytical, but they sounded thin and un-involving. 

It is not a matter of adjusting to the sound. I listened for about an hour on day one then did not listen at all for two days. Then I was thrilled with the sound as soon as I listened on day three. 

Anyway, I'm sorry for raising the issue the way I did. There really is no point in arguing about it.


----------



## koiloco

bogart24 said:


> When I first got my HD800 I was disappointed.  Soundstage was great but sounded veiled and fatiguing.  Then I read burn-in is recommended so I let it run a couple of days.  Listened last night on my Woo WA2.  Spectacular.  *Anyone who dismisses the idea of burn-in must have no ear for music*.


 
 Yes and I also happen to believe that unicorn exists.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Believe what you will but please don't say that people who don't conform to your beliefs have no ear for music.
  
 Not picking a fight!  Just give you my honest 2c.
  
 Happy new year!


----------



## koiloco

gardenvariety said:


> I'm a little shocked that you felt the sound of the HD800 was veiled. To me, and many others, it's the most analytical headphone out there. As far as burn in, some may argue that it's nothing more than your ear adjusting to the sound of your new headphones. The HD800's sounded amazing right off the bat for me. But then again, I probably don't have an ear for music.


 
 Even though I wasn't immediately impressed and like the HD800 sound signature at first, by no mean the sound was veiled.  I was lucky enough to have a friend who let me borrow his HD800 for a few weeks.  I bought my own right after that.


----------



## koiloco

mannerpylon said:


> Well you've skipped a lot of steps on the audiophile ramp up to the HD800s which is both good and bad. Climbing the ladder lets you fully appreciate when you get to the top but it also costs a lot more money in the end. Like you, I first had a pair of M50's, I actually found that I became the most displeased with their sound after I paired them with a decent source/amp. Now they're just a dedicated vacuuming/dishwashing/other things around the house headphone.
> 
> Although I've only owned my HD800's for a bit over a week and a half now I'm definitely enjoying them and they beat anything I've previously owned.


 
 Don't forget that M50 will sound decent plugged into most sources while HD800 will NOT.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 M50 is a great pair of HP for the price and stilled used by a lot of audio professionals.  Just because you are buying a pair of HD800 doesn't mean M50 is garbage.  Whether you dislike the sound signature of the M50 is of course a personal matter.  There's no hype when it comes to M50.  Simple as that.


----------



## koiloco

matttcg said:


> Valhalla 2 is a great option and complements both hp's exceptionally. Also consider:
> 
> *Bottlehead Crack
> 
> ...


 
 +1.
  
 I personally will pick the Vali.  For the $, great little amp for HD800.
 Crack will be my 2nd choice.


----------



## No_One411

koiloco said:


> +1.
> 
> I personally will pick the Vali.  For the $, great little amp for HD800.
> Crack will be my 2nd choice.


 
 I will 2nd this recommendation. The Vali is a great little amp for the money. Most should be content with it's performance for quite some time. 
  
 Ringing is minimal, just don't tap the case.


----------



## lin0003

koiloco said:


> Even though I wasn't immediately impressed and like the HD800 sound signature at first, by no mean the sound was veiled.  I was lucky enough to have a friend who let me borrow his HD800 for a few weeks.  I bought my own right after that.


 
 Same, A friend lent me his and I just could not live without them. 
  
 I would say the HD800 are the lest veiled headphone I have heard. It does not have that HD600/650 minor veil at all.


----------



## Audio-Omega

I just noticed that the black mesh in the cups were not glued on.


----------



## bmichels

HD800 discontinued by the manufacturer !!! new Flagship coming  ???


----------



## lin0003

Unless the flagship is like the HD580 to HD600, I don't see why they are discontinuing it?


----------



## Dopaminer

bmichels said:


> HD800 discontinued by the manufacturer !!! new Flagship coming  ???


----------



## guido

bmichels said:


> HD800 discontinued by the manufacturer !!! new Flagship coming  ???


 

 not sure about the discontinued comment?


----------



## Dopaminer

The company Wagnus in Japan is selling 2.5mm balanced HD800 cables, for use with AK players.  Is anyone on this thread running their HD800 directly out of their AK240 or AK120ii ?  I would love to hear some impressions.


----------



## Zoom25

bmichels said:


> HD800 discontinued by the manufacturer !!! new Flagship coming  ???


 
 http://www.performanceaudio.com/item/sennheiser-hd800/24472/
  
 Same thing here. CES 2015 in a few days. By next Friday, there should be something conclusive on what Sennheiser is doing. It was speculated that a flagship was coming and it was either a stat or dynamic to succeed HD800. If it was a stat, then there would be no reason to discontinue HD800. Only a direct successor to HD800 would result in current version of HD800 being discontinued.


----------



## Acapella11

Amazon.de does not list an HD800.


----------



## money4me247

OMGGG!!!! hahah... this is actually realllyyy xciting. i hope u can still getta hold of the hd800s at discount now.


----------



## Hun7er

acapella11 said:


> Amazon.de does not list an HD800.


 
  .fr too


----------



## pedalhead

An exciting prospect indeed, I'll be watching CES coverage closely for an announcement from Sennheiser.  An even better HD800...that is a heck of a proposition. I'm assuming they're not going with an electrostatic as a high end replacement...you'd think that could co-exist with the HD800 just fine.  Or, perhaps we're seeing a new dynamic AND a new electrostatic!  Just feeding the rumours


----------



## punit

Wow.. both of my top 2 HP's discontinued (HE-6 going to be shortly).


----------



## preproman

punit said:


> Wow.. both of my top 2 HP's discontinued (HE-6 going to be shortly).


 

 +1  Same here..


----------



## xaval

The King is coming? 
  
 Where's Nomax?


----------



## Zoom25

xaval said:


> The King is coming?
> 
> Where's Nomax?


 

 Well this is what he said previously: post #101
  
  


> The New sennheiser ........... will be a milestone in the headphone Industrie


 
  


> Many many People will be surpriced of the sennheiser..........how stunning THIS ENDGAME MASTERPIECE is


----------



## MattTCG

I predict quite a few pair of 800's showing up in the for sale forum. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Might be a good time to pick up a pair. Regardless of what the future holds, the hd800 will always be a wonderful hp.


----------



## Sorrodje

I don't really believe in the fact that the HD800 is discontinued. I believe more in a kind of "out of stock" phenomenon.  I'm convinced than Sennheiser would not discontinue a product they sell like hot cakes. Maybe i'm wrong


----------



## whirlwind

matttcg said:


> I predict quite a few pair of 800's showing up in the for sale forum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Absolutely and a great time to snag a wonderful deal


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Though still shown on the Sennheiser online store, when you try to put the HD800 into your cart, it says "Sorry... Out of Stock!"

"The King is Dead. Long live the King."


----------



## zilch0md

sorrodje said:


> I don't really believe in the fact that the HD800 is discontinued. I believe more in a kind of "out of stock" phenomenon.  I'm convinced than Sennheiser would not discontinue a product they sell like hot cakes. Maybe i'm wrong


 
  
 I like your thinking. Why would they discontinue a source of revenue?  Is there any precedent for Sennhesiser doing this?   It wouldn't make sense even if a new headphone sold for the same price.  It would make even less sense if a new headphone sells for $2000.
  
 If they are about to announce a "better" headphone, they may have just postponed HD800 production to concentrate resources on building inventory of the new headphone.


----------



## Sorrodje

Dunno but I would be extremely surprised if the HD800 was really discontinued


----------



## whirlwind

sorrodje said:


> Dunno but I would be extremely surprised if the HD800 was really discontinued


 
 +1
  
 Look at the HD600 series.....a great can is a great can....period.


----------



## James-uk

Maybe sennheiser are bringing out a HD800 revision that isn't hand assembled so the skilled workers that do that work can assemble the new flagship? That way they can continue to sell the HD800 like the 600/650 (with similar quality controls) ie not as precise as is now with HD800 and the new flagship will have the current attention to detail . Just some thoughts . Basically a more mass produced HD800 with cheaper build cost and 'HD900' with the 'hand made in Germany ' treatment.


----------



## Chodi

Isn't it possible that their staff is at CES and the HD800 is really out of stock? On their USA web site it says out of stock will be available in 7-10 days. If they are planning to pull a surprise at CES they are doing a very convincing job of it.


----------



## Dopaminer

Maybe it`s out of stock because the 5 women who hand make them have all been on Xmas/NY vacation for the past 2 weeks.  (I got that from that awesome video that was linked here a couple of weeks ago).  
  
 Anyway, for once all this pure speculation is fun to read.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Inside scoop:
  
 Sennheiser product engineers, following head-fi.org for the latest in headphone likes, dislikes, and technology, stumbled upon this recent post in the Grado Fan Club section, found that the diameter of the acoustic reflectors also matched the grill diameter of the HD 800s, and have deployed their five assembly ladies in retrofitting all Sennheiser HD 800s in stock with this amazing device!


----------



## rgs9200m

Doesn't Senn still sell both the 650 and even the 600 today? Even if they did bring out an 800 revision, it would be out of character for them to cease offering it.


----------



## Fegefeuer

This speculation is quite absurd


----------



## pearljam50000

I hope the the HD900 costs 5000$ because i can't afford anything more than the HD800, so then i won't be sad


----------



## MattTCG

fegefeuer said:


> This speculation is quite absurd


 
  
 But it's what we do here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...right? Anyway I spoke to a friend who sells Sennheiser, who asked the Regional manager for Senn N. America. There is no news to report about a d/c. But then again, he wouldn't tell me even if he knew. And I wouldn't tell you if he told me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ha!


----------



## thinker

Sennheiser HD 800  Headphones are discontinued by manufacturer


----------



## Samuel777

thinker said:


> Sennheiser HD 800  Headphones are discontinued by manufacturer


 

 Ok, but why ? I have ordered one 4 days ago. what shall do now ?


----------



## icebear

The Senneiser US site still shows the "buy now" button :
 http://en-us.sennheiser.com/dynamic-headphones-high-end-around-ear-hd-800
  
 When you hit it, it will just tell you that it currently out of stock and will ship in 7 to 10 days:
_quote [ We're sorry but HD 800 (ships in 7-10 days) is currently out of stock and cannot be added to your cart. We apologize for any inconvenience._]
  
 No message about discontinuing this model.
  
 And also there is NO message on Amazon.com
 http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Over-Ear-Circum-Aural-Dynamic-Headphone/dp/B001OTZ8DA
 IN stock and readily available new from 19 vendors.


----------



## thinker

samuel777 said:


> Ok, but why ?


 
 They sold over 36000 units and it's time for refreshment, i guess they would have done nothing if there were no competition, the market has become very aggressive.


----------



## wuwhere

Its the *UK Amazon* that lists it as discontinued.


----------



## thinker

icebear said:


> The Senneiser US site still shows the "buy now" button :
> http://en-us.sennheiser.com/dynamic-headphones-high-end-around-ear-hd-800
> 
> When you hit it, it will just tell you that it currently out of stock and will ship in 7 to 10 days:
> ...


 

 if this is true
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sennheiser-Reference-Class-Wired-Headphones/dp/B001OTZ8DA


----------



## justin w.

Luckily, they're keeping the water resistant model 
  
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sennheiser-HD800-Over-Ear-Headphone-Resistance/dp/B0061MYR6Y/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1420313824&sr=1-2&keywords=sennheiser+hd+800


----------



## Samuel777

Fortunately i got mine with B&H at 1021 USD. so in all case, i should not regret.


----------



## thinker

justin w. said:


> Luckily, they're keeping the water resistant model
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sennheiser-HD800-Over-Ear-Headphone-Resistance/dp/B0061MYR6Y/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1420313824&sr=1-2&keywords=sennheiser+hd+800


 
 The buy button has disappeared for HD-800 /Sennheiser Germany  http://de-de.sennheiser.com/over-ear-kopfhoerer


----------



## pearljam50000

samuel777 said:


> Fortunately i got mine with B&H at 1021 USD. so in all case, i should not regret.


 
 How can i get this? \:


----------



## RCBinTN

The HD800 are in stock at crutchfield.com and bhphotovideo.com.  Free shipping from either company (probably in the US only).
 I'm guessing, along with some other posters, that Sennheiser ran out of stock in Germany and had to first honor open orders by their distributors.
  
 The speculation, however, is really fun.


----------



## Samuel777

pearljam50000 said:


> How can i get this? \:


 
 I got that price because of my Fidelity and direct negotiation with B&H.


----------



## zilch0md

rcbintn said:


> [snip]
> 
> The speculation, however, is really fun.


 
  
 Yes indeed - it's absurdly fun!


----------



## silversurfer616

Don't think that there was such a soaring christmas spike in the sales esp. considering that christmas stock comes in the shops 2-3 months before christmas.
The consumer is fickle and everybody talks about the new Hifiman,Abyss etc. and despite it's supreme technicalities the HD800 seems dated/old and we want something new and thrilling from Sennheiser.
I think they focus on a new flagship model and soon we will know!


----------



## ubs28

Guess I should sell the HD800 (only a few months old) quickly and buy the new model? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 edit: Perhaps Sennheiser discontinues the HD800 because the new headphone is only marginally better (maybe 2-3%), hence most people would buy the older / cheaper HD800? Else I see no reason why Sennheiser would discontinue the HD800.
  
 The HD600 is still being sold for example.


----------



## whirlwind

matttcg said:


> fegefeuer said:
> 
> 
> > This speculation is quite absurd
> ...


----------



## Mortalcoil

punit said:


> Wow.. both of my top 2 HP's discontinued (HE-6 going to be shortly).


 

  Fortunately for you though you still have your TH-900


----------



## pearljam50000

I hope the new HD800 comes in a metal box like the T1


----------



## Zoom25

I'm checking up on local pricing here in the GTA area and the HD800 is still at lowered prices, out of stock, which doesn't match how HD800 prices and stock typically are around the year and especially at this time.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

icebear said:


> The Senneiser US site still shows the "buy now" button :
> http://en-us.sennheiser.com/dynamic-headphones-high-end-around-ear-hd-800
> 
> When you hit it, it will just tell you that it currently out of stock and will ship in 7 to 10 days:
> ...


 

 I took the "ships in 7-10 days" to mean "When we have it, it ships in 7 to 10 days.  However, it is now out of stock so you cannot add it to your cart, " not "You can't add it now but can in 7 - 10 days."


----------



## RCBinTN

silversurfer616 said:


> Don't think that there was such a soaring christmas spike in the sales esp. considering that christmas stock comes in the shops 2-3 months before christmas.
> The consumer is fickle and everybody talks about the new Hifiman,Abyss etc. and despite it's supreme technicalities the HD800 seems dated/old and we want something new and thrilling from Sennheiser.
> I think they focus on a new flagship model and soon we will know!


 
  
 Yea maybe, but consider the global economy finally recovering in many places after the 2009 recession (except the EU including Germany), I can see Sennheiser under-estimating demand for a high-cost product like the HD800.  Maybe business is better than they anticipated.
  
 At the same time, I would like to see a closed HD800-XC with better bass response.
  





 RCBinTN


----------



## Viper2005

ubs28 said:


> Guess I should sell the HD800 (only a few months old) quickly and buy the new model?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thus you should do the reverse, and buy another HD800 as a backup!


----------



## MickeyVee

I don't think the HD800 will become or seen as 'dated/old' for a while.  The newer headphones still can't match the comfort, design and in many cases (mated with the right gear) the sound signature and speed of the HD800.  Just one HD800 owner/apperciator's thoughts. YMMV.
 Quote:


silversurfer616 said:


> The consumer is fickle and everybody talks about the new Hifiman,Abyss etc. and despite it's supreme technicalities the HD800 seems dated/old and we want something new and thrilling from Sennheiser.


----------



## Acapella11

ubs28 said:


> edit: Perhaps Sennheiser discontinues the HD800 because the new headphone is only marginally better (maybe 2-3%), hence most people would buy the older / cheaper HD800? Else I see no reason why Sennheiser would discontinue the HD800.
> 
> The HD600 is still being sold for example.


 
  
 +1 I agree.
  
 Also, since the HD700 prices are discounted, it might point to a general incremental improvement to the "HD800-like" family. I wouldn't be surprised if, with more expensive top tier headphones being released (LCD-X, HE-1000, Abyss), we would see an HD900/HD1000 at a $2000+ price tag.


----------



## money4me247

acapella11 said:


> +1 I agree.
> 
> Also, since the HD700 prices are discounted, it might point to a general incremental improvement to the "HD800-like" family. I wouldn't be surprised if, with more expensive top tier headphones being released (LCD-X, HE-1000, Abyss), we would see an HD900/HD1000 at a $2000+ price tag.


 
 if you are talking about the new high impedance Audeze prototype, you mean the LCD-Z (LCD-X is already out & only 1.6k).
  
 ...lol can't believe i really said ONLY $1,600...... man, headphone pricing is going outta control.


----------



## Chodi

Audiophile paranoia has taken over this thread. We could all just wait and see.


----------



## johnjen

Cerrtainly Sennhesier has learned about the 'faults' and attempted fixes to the 800.
 That we as users and the aftermarket are 'making it better' has not gone unnoticed.
  
 And it would seem it wouldn't take much to ameliorate the 'faults' with a more refined design.
 And who knows what other technology they are capable/willing to unleash as a new statement product.
  
 Certainly the market has proven itself to be not only viable but 'healthy' and probably more robust than they originally thought.
  
 And lastly my plea to Sennheiser to not continue to try and hide the 'real' technical attributes of their product(s) behind mathmatically manipulated acoustical information.  
 I was quite disappointed when I saw the FR chart for my set of 800's.  
 Not by what it displayed but by what it didn't.
  
 Those who are familiar with pro level acoustical measurement equipment, noteably B&K gear, should be familiar with what I am referring to.
  
 And all these details were brought forth by other portions of the market (reviewers, DIY'rs etc.) in due course anyway.
  
 And yes I do realize that what I'm asking for can be a double edged sword, but these products are supposed to be the pinnacle of your technologic prowess.  It seems to me that I'd want to let the details speak for themselves, and not be 'obscured' by 'averaging', nor brought to light by those who purchase and use these products.
  
 JJ


----------



## MacedonianHero

Guys...so some dude at Amazon without a clue in the UK messes up and it's mass hysteria? Look, Sennheiser isn't like Hifiman that cancels its headphones when new ones come out...look at the HD600s and HD650s...they've been out for years and years. Maybe there's a new headphone coming out, maybe not...the rest is foolish speculation that doesn't really lead to anywhere.
  
 FWIW, they are still available on the Canadian and US Amazon sites (and In Stock).


----------



## BobFiggins

Well, I was going to join you all. Decided to go for a full setup for now (Instead of an HD800 and waiting for the other parts), and when my beefy tax return hits, get the HD800 instead. It was a hard decision, but I started off on my audiophile quest always drooling at the HD700. Even if it ends up not being a great HP for me, I will have felt so much better having tried it. My mind was set on it for the last year, gotta get my fix, hah.
  
 Just bought the HD700, on Friday buying the Modi 2 Uber / Valhalla 2.
  
 Farewell for now, hope to be back soon-ish. I appreciate all the advice you guys have given me.


----------



## freedom01

bobfiggins said:


> Well, I was going to join you all. Decided to go for a full setup for now (Instead of an HD800 and waiting for the other parts), and when my beefy tax return hits, get the HD800 instead. It was a hard decision, but I started off on my audiophile quest always drooling at the HD700. Even if it ends up not being a great HP for me, I will have felt so much better having tried it. My mind was set on it for the last year, gotta get my fix, hah.
> 
> Just bought the HD700, on Friday buying the Modi 2 Uber / Valhalla 2.
> 
> Farewell for now, hope to be back soon-ish. I appreciate all the advice you guys have given me.


 

 Hi mate ,
  
 Is your Valhalla2 shipping any time soon ?
 I wanted to get one too. But the status in still on backorder (from schiit website).


----------



## BobFiggins

Haven't purchased the Modi or Val yet. On Friday I will.


----------



## pearljam50000

Will the modi/vali be a huge upgrade from my Geek Out 720 with HD800?


----------



## Currawong

pearljam50000 said:


> Will the modi/vali be a huge upgrade from my Geek Out 720 with HD800?


 
  
 I don't reckon so. Once I can get my hands on the v2 versions I'll compare them with the GO1000 though for sure.


----------



## Justin_Time

money4me247 said:


> if you are talking about the new high impedance Audeze prototype, you mean the LCD-Z (LCD-X is already out & only 1.6k).
> 
> ...lol can't believe i really said ONLY $1,600...... man, headphone pricing is going outta control.


 
 Cheer up!
  
 It is not quite out of control yet.  
  
 It is only the beginning of the end of "affordable" headphones as we know it.


----------



## Justin_Time

dopaminer said:


> The company Wagnus in Japan is selling 2.5mm balanced HD800 cables, for use with AK players.  Is anyone on this thread running their HD800 directly out of their AK240 or AK120ii ?  I would love to hear some impressions.


 
 The HD800 sounds fine if you drop the output impedance of the AK100/120 to below 1 ohm.
  
 Vinnie at RWA can do that plus a few other things to improve the sound.
  
 Without that change, the match is only so so..


----------



## Justin_Time

punit said:


> Wow.. both of my top 2 HP's discontinued (HE-6 going to be shortly).


 
 Not to worry.
  
 One thing I learned the hard way:  Just because there is a new TOTL headphone out there, your old HP still sounds exactly the same.
  
 Put on your HD800 or HE-6, listen to the gorgeous sound that you love and smile because you still have the $5,000 for the new HPs in your pocket.


----------



## mcteague

wuwhere said:


> Its the *UK Amazon* that lists it as discontinued.


 

 This link is for the *BLACK* HD800!
  
Sennheiser HD 800 New Reference Class Wired Headphones - Black (discontinued by manufacturer)  
 Tim


----------



## pearljam50000

Wow, since when do they make them in black?


----------



## Justin_Time

pearljam50000 said:


> Wow, since when do they make them in black?


 
 They make them in all kinds of colors!
  
 Actually, you can still buy the HD800 new from ColorWare and have them painted any colors you want for the same retail price.
  
 Contrary to popular rumors, this pair of HD800 will not be in the Sale Forum any time soon!


----------



## pearljam50000

They look great!


----------



## MickeyVee

Very, very Nice! Every time I see a pair of HD800 done up by Colorware, I want to send mine in! Or order a second pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!
 Quote:


justin_time said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## dxanex

I salivate every time I see a HD 800 with a Colorware job, and I myself have spent at least an hour or two on the site messing with different color combos. I really want to do mine in blue accents to match my Sonnet 2, but it's still hard to stomach $300 for a paint job, plus be without my HD 800 for a few weeks, no matter how nice their work may be... But I'll still probably do it one day, when I'm convinced there's nothing else left I need want out of my headphone journey.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

dxanex said:


> I salivate every time I see a HD 800 with a Colorware job, and I myself have spent at least an hour or two on the site messing with different color combos. I really want to do mine in blue accents to match my Sonnet 2, but it's still hard to stomach $300 for a paint job, plus be without my HD 800 for a few weeks, no matter how nice their work may be... But I'll still probably do it one day, when I'm convinced there's nothing else left I need want out of my headphone journey.


 

 @dxanex...


 Now, go wipe off your keyboard and order *ANOTHER* HD800 (and HDVD800 amp) direct from Colorware... when you do that, it only costs $100 extra to color each of them!!
  
 Or maybe, .... THIS?

 or perhaps, for on the move listening... THIS??


----------



## kazsud

If there is a new flagship being announced this week then they are probably using all hd800 workers to make it and won't be back to making hd800s until they are done the first batch of the new model.


----------



## dxanex

@kayandjohn You sir have given me a new purpose in life...

  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## hekeli

kazsud said:


> If there is a new flagship being announced this week then they are probably using all hd800 workers to make it and won't be back to making hd800s until they are done the first batch of the new model.


 
  
 Yeah it would be very hard to hire new workers in advance from the 100000 unemployed hausfraus in Germany. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure they would go bankrupt also with the minimum wage salaries looking at their puny 15M€ yearly profits..


----------



## silversurfer616

Sennheiser pays proper wages for their hausfrauEN(plural has the ending en, being fussy about those things)!


----------



## rgs9200m

FWIW my hd800 is sounding just great with some tubes driving it with Sennheiser's balanced cable. I just spent a few hours with it last night. The bass is really fine.


----------



## zilch0md

ruthieandjohn said:


> @dxanex...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Color coordinated? These go together pretty well...


----------



## pearljam50000

Can you hear a big difference when comparing 24/192 to 16 /44.1 (of the same songs of course) on the HD800?​


----------



## johnjen

pearljam50000 said:


> Can you hear a big difference when comparing 24/192 to 16 /44.1 (of the same songs of course) on the HD800?​


 
 It mostly depends upon the upstream gear that feeds the 800's.  They will with precision, present the signal fed them.
  
 But yes it can be quite easy to hear those changes and even the changes from 44.1K to 48K.
  
 JJ


----------



## RUMAY408

Reading through the last 100 posts:
  
 As long as Sennheiser has the HD800 on their website I'll assume they have not been discontinued.  
  
 Well mastered albums shine with these HP's, from my perspective the SACD and DVD-Audio versions of outstanding albums are better than anything short of clean dead wax vinyl on a decent Turntable>Lossless>low bit MP3.
  
 The key for me is properly amping the HD800, they really need a decent amount of well delivered juice.


----------



## pearljam50000

Come on Jude where's the HD900? (;


----------



## Blackmore

In de clouds
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Dream on guys, its still free of charge.
  
  
  
 Quote:


pearljam50000 said:


> Come on Jude where's the HD900? (;


----------



## money4me247

I think they probably call it HD1000 when they finally release a new flagship. hahah


----------



## RRod

money4me247 said:


> I think they probably call it HD1000 when they finally release a new flagship. hahah


 
  
 Except that already exists 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
 I vote for HD666


----------



## blackwolf1006

money4me247 said:


> I think they probably call it HD1000 when they finally release a new flagship. hahah


 
  
 HD9001.. HD over 9000.. LOL.
  
 Damm my wallet is going to hate me. Audeze releasing some new stuff as well and Sennheiser. Time to start saving.


----------



## dxanex

Me best guess would be the HD 850, and sorry guys...looks like another CES, another flagship non-announcement.
  
 http://en-de.sennheiser.com/ces-2015


----------



## Blackmore

There is always Munich show in May, however the HD800 announcement took place during CES 2009, right? This year its from 6-9 of January...


----------



## MacedonianHero

dxanex said:


> Me best guess would be the HD 850, and sorry guys...looks like another CES, another flagship non-announcement.
> 
> http://en-de.sennheiser.com/ces-2015


 
  
 Well, I am NOT surprised knowing Sennheiser's history.


----------



## yzhengyu

Well, Sennheiser actually has plenty of reasons to concentrate on the consumer audio market since they can maintain both volume and healthy margins. And going by the serial number on my recently purchased HD800 (345xx) and that it was out of stock and I had to wait patiently for the shop to restock it during the holiday period, they are not doing that badly on that front either.


----------



## MacedonianHero

yzhengyu said:


> Well, Sennheiser actually has plenty of reasons to concentrate on the consumer audio market since they can maintain both volume and healthy margins. And going by the serial number on my recently purchased HD800 (345xx) and that it was out of stock and I had to wait patiently for the shop to restock it during the holiday period, they are not doing that badly on that front either.


 
  
 Plus a likely year end push to drive revenue up.


----------



## SuperU

Has anyone compared the HD 800's to the new Alpha Prime's?
  
 Pretty impossible to read through 1073 pages and a search didn't turn anything up.
  
 But am very curious about this as if I were going to spend $1000, another $500 would be doable.


----------



## Dopaminer

superu said:


> Has anyone compared the HD 800's to the new Alpha Prime's?
> 
> Pretty impossible to read through 1073 pages and a search didn't turn anything up.
> 
> But am very curious about this as if I were going to spend $1000, another $500 would be doable.


 

 That is an extremely apples-to-oranges comparison.  They both provide excellent sound, but in radically different user evperiences.  If your listening environment is suitable for an open phone, definitely go HD800.  On the other hand, the Alpha Prime is one of the best closed phone available.  
  
 BTW, there seem to be lots of deals on the HD800 recently.  I wouldn`t pay 1500$ . . .


----------



## SuperU

Definitely need closed phones. I have the Alpha Dog Pro and love, love, love them. Thinking of going to the Prime.


----------



## money4me247

superu said:


> Definitely need closed phones. I have the Alpha Dog Pro and love, love, love them. Thinking of going to the Prime.


 
 If going closed for sure & can splurge an extra $500, consider the Audeze LCD-XC. I believe that would be considered to be the "best" pair of closed headphones. Also, Audeze is releasing the new EL-8 at $700. May be wise to wait to see how its performance stacks up to the current competition. Final high-end closed that may be worth consideration would be the Fostex TH-900.
  
 Note none of these headphones except perhaps the new EL-8 are truly portable (aka too large or amping requirements makes it difficult to use while walking about). Can transport place to place though I guess.


----------



## Sorrodje

money4me247 said:


> If going closed for sure & can splurge an extra $500, consider the Audeze LCD-XC. I believe that would be considered to be the "best" pair of closed headphones.




Sorry but I disagree. Lcd-xc has a kind of honky mid I really can't stand more than 10 seconds. It's definitely not my advice for a closed can.

Not heard any alpha prime thus far.


----------



## money4me247

sorrodje said:


> Sorry but I disagree. Lcd-xc has a kind of honky mid I really can't stand more than 10 seconds. It's definitely not my advice for a closed can.
> 
> Not heard any alpha prime thus far.


 
 hahaah well, let's say most "expensive" closed pair available then.


----------



## lin0003

What do you guys expect the price of the new flagship will be? 
  
 I don't see the need to bring out something new now though, the HD800 is still the best headphone in the price range to many people.


----------



## Sorrodje

For many people , the HD800 is the best current headphone. At least , their headphone of choice even against the best Staxes or the Abyss.  For most people it's one of the 4 or 5 best current headphone regardless of the price.
  
 The HD800 is more than a "good headphone for the price" so where has Sennheiser some place to release another flagship ? Only for the "pleasure" to have a pricier headphone?   Are the HD800 too cheap to allow you to be proud when you show your headphones to your fiancee ?


----------



## yzhengyu

sorrodje said:


> For many people , the HD800 is the best current headphone. At least , their headphone of choice even against the best Staxes or the Abyss.  For most people it's one of the 4 or 5 best current headphone regardless of the price.
> 
> The HD800 is more than a "good headphone for the price" so where has Sennheiser some place to release another flagship ? Only for the "pleasure" to have a pricier headphone?   Are the HD800 too cheap to allow you to be proud when you show your headphones to your fiancee ?


 
  
 To be honest, the HD800 has its flaws. Then again, some say Sennheiser intended it to have that FR characteristic for the treble range.


----------



## Dopaminer

money4me247 said:


> If going closed for sure & can splurge an extra $500, consider the Audeze LCD-XC. I believe that would be considered to be the "best" pair of closed headphones. Also, Audeze is releasing the new EL-8 at $700. May be wise to wait to see how its performance stacks up to the current competition. Final high-end closed that may be worth consideration would be the Fostex TH-900.
> 
> Note none of these headphones except perhaps the new EL-8 are truly portable (aka too large or amping requirements makes it difficult to use while walking about). Can transport place to place though I guess.


 

 LCD-XC are closed but barely wearable in my opinion, so heavy and hot.
  
 My T5P is truly portable, and sounds fantastic, out of my AK120ii. It has the most HD800-like sound I`ve heard out of a closed HP, for better and worse.   
  
 And the Fostex TH900 most definitiely does not seal or isolate; it`s like an open-back HP with a closed back, somehow.


----------



## Sorrodje

yzhengyu said:


> To be honest, the HD800 has its flaws. Then again, some say Sennheiser intended it to have that FR characteristic for the treble range.


 
  
  
 Definitely ! as all headphones have   I don"t say the HD800 is the perfect headphone (I never met any perfect headphone. Not heard the famous orpheus though) but I really think that modify something could induce shortcomings so improving the HD800 would be a very serious challenge.
  
 I'm following seriously the HE1000 story. If I trust some Owner the HE-6 is a true flagship that competes with best headphons in the world too so I'm interested to see if Hifiman found some *real* improvements.
  
 Every one dream of  something with the Abyss bass impact , the HD800 soundstage and resolution capabilities, the speed and the clean sound of the SR009.
 But I seriously doubt that the perfect headphone could exist.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

dopaminer said:


> LCD-XC are closed but barely wearable in my opinion, so heavy and hot.
> 
> My T5P is truly portable, and sounds fantastic, out of my AK120ii. It has the most HD800-like sound I`ve heard out of a closed HP, for better and worse.
> 
> And the Fostex TH900 most definitiely does not seal or isolate; it`s like an open-back HP with a closed back, somehow.



Hope you are right about the T5P. I am awaiting a pair I ordered after research into the Fostex TH-900 (not enough isolation), Audeze LCD-XC (never heard an Audeze that excited me), and others. Thanks for your conpment to reinforce my choice! Now Hurry Up, USPS!


----------



## kothganesh

yzhengyu said:


> To be honest, the HD800 has its flaws. Then again, some say Sennheiser intended it to have that FR characteristic for the treble range.


 

 FWIW, I always keep coming back to the HD800. Any treble issues can be fixed with the Anax mod. The 800 has kept me constantly improving my source music. I am currently listening to the Division Bell (Pink Floyd) 24/96 from HDtracks and I am amazed at the scalability of the HD 800 with the source quality.


----------



## Dopaminer

ruthieandjohn said:


> Hope you are right about the T5P. I am awaiting a pair I ordered after research into the Fostex TH-900 (not enough isolation), Audeze LCD-XC (never heard an Audeze that excited me), and others. Thanks for your conpment to reinforce my choice! Now Hurry Up, USPS!


 

 Looking at the phones in your sig,I think you will be happy with the T5P.  I am currently traveling for a few weeks, and I LOVE mine, out of my AK120ii.  (I`m also missing my HD800, left at home)
 Please notice however that I said above that the T5P was the closest to the HD800 of any closed can, for better AND worse.  It is even less forgiving of poorly recorded, mastered or ripped music files than the HD800.  But when it`s happy with a track, it is phenomenal.


----------



## rgs9200m

If you do buy an HD800 and later decide to sell it, they seem to go very quickly. I recv'd  many offers when I sold a pair a while back. So it is something I would not hesitate to buy if I was curious.


----------



## elvergun

dopaminer said:


> LCD-XC are closed but barely wearable in my opinion, so heavy and hot.
> 
> My T5P is truly portable, and sounds fantastic, out of my AK120ii. It has the most HD800-like sound I`ve heard out of a closed HP, for better and worse.
> 
> And the Fostex TH900 most definitiely does not seal or isolate; it`s like an open-back HP with a closed back, somehow.


 
  
 I agree with this (the LCD is heavy...the TH900 is really an open can...and the T5p sounds fantastic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## Acapella11

sorrodje said:


> Every one dream of  something with the Abyss bass impact , the HD800 soundstage and resolution capabilities, the speed and the clean sound of the SR009.
> But I seriously doubt that the perfect headphine could exist.


 
  
 Actually, for me, it would be the Abyss stage, HD800 microdetail, openess, transparency, neutrality and an LCD type bass. The treble of the HD800 is fine for me. Of course, they need a matching chain. Haven't heard the SR009 but can imagine that they surpass the HD800 in terms of transparency and detail.


----------



## plonter

New HD800 owner here.  Sound is really amazing.  Indeed the have a little treble emphasis than totally neutral imo but tolerable, I am also a grado fan so I am used to it.
 Right now my rig is: laptop with foobar wasapi into a dragonfly dac and amped with headroom ultra micro.  I would say that the dac is the weakest link here so this is the next upgrade in my list,
 but so far sounds not bad at all.


----------



## rgs9200m

I like my HD800 a lot some of the time; it's dependent on the recording like no other phone I've had. It's less a frequency response thing (the highs), and more of the way it can make a vocal or other sustained-note instrument sound hashy or raspy
 if it's on the recording. When things are lined up well, it's like no other phone, and just superb though.
 Even Stax 009s are not nearly as sensitive or variable with the recording. The HD800 is variable in presenting the texture of each musical component.
 Therefore I never recommend it to a novice or someone just starting out in the world of high end audiophile headphones.


----------



## johnjen

Add an Anax v.2 mod to your 800's 
 Or wait for the next-gen Anax mod.
  
 Then, let us know what you think.  :thumb
  
 I call what you're hearing, LFF (Listener Fatigue Factor) and it can be ameliorated.
  
 JJ


----------



## Mortalcoil

ruthieandjohn said:


> Hope you are right about the T5P. I am awaiting a pair I ordered after research into the Fostex TH-900 (not enough isolation), Audeze LCD-XC (never heard an Audeze that excited me), and others. Thanks for your conpment to reinforce my choice! Now Hurry Up, USPS!


 

  Having owned the TH-900 for some time now I am still amazed at those that consider them open headphones.  Sure they may not isolate like a Signature Pro or a dt-250 however I can tell you that they do in fact isolate very well.
  
 I know this to be truth due to the fact that my wife has the same hearing as a bat or a dolphin (sometimes I think she communicates with them)  Simply basing your purchasing descision on what a few may say is simply cheating your self.
  
 Those that are usually the first to condemn a headphone are simply adhering to the flock mentality (not in all cases of course). 
  
 I myself have not owned the T5p  yet since there introduction some years ago I have read that they are bright and shill sounding and suffer from a treble spike.  Do I base a purchase on what others have said? No.  Do I take it into account ....maybe.
  
 Point is don't judge a hp from what others say, make your own mind up by giving them a proper audition.  I apologize if I come across as if Im lecturing or being an a**hat don't mean it to come off that way, and in no means is this post directed strictly at you kayandjohn.
  
 It does irk me though how some people consider the 900 a leaky headphone when in actual fact it is the opposite.  Open sounding yes,  open as in HD-800 not.
  
 Rant out.


----------



## earthpeople

I have to strongly disagree with you about the TH900 being isolating. I can hear every noise in my apartment with hardly any attenuation when compared to my other headphones. I have had people try my headphones on to compare them and whether they are using the HD800 or TH900, I can hear what they are listening to loud and clear. I can have a whisper conversation with the headphones on. Try setting your TH900 to a moderate listening level and then put them around a pillow or your leg or something, you should easily be able to hear what's playing. I don't know if there's some incredible variance in production or what, but neither the TH900 or TH600 I've owned had any real degree of isolation. 
  
 However I will agree that you can only know something for sure if you try it yourself. Don't judge or base your opinions solely on what others say, just use it as a loose guideline.


----------



## Canadian411

You don't really want a sealed/zero leak headphones, isolation is good thing in some degree (public, otherwise HD800), TH900 is perfect for me it's doesn't isolate as good as T5p or UE8 *BUT* the good thing is that it dones't get too hot or sweaty.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

mortalcoil said:


> Having owned the TH-900 for some time now I am still amazed at those that consider them open headphones.  Sure they may not isolate like a Signature Pro or a dt-250 however I can tell you that they do in fact isolate very well.
> 
> I know this to be truth due to the fact that my wife has the same hearing as a bat or a dolphin (sometimes I think she communicates with them)  Simply basing your purchasing descision on what a few may say is simply cheating your self.
> 
> ...


 

 Actually, I based my concern about (lack of) isolation of the TH-900 on measurements (blue curve below), not on others' opinions.  I found that while it isolated more than the Grado PS1000s (top curve below, in orange) that are my normal listening headphone, they did not isolate as well as the T5P (red), which in turn isolated closer to the level of my Shure SE535 IEMs (green), but presumably will have the ease of wearing and soundstage that headphones have over IEMs.  While I have had the chance to try the T5P at two headphone meets, I have not yet seen the Fostex TH-900. I believe that the TH-900 gives better sound with richer bass, but I fear that in the noisy environment for which I am purchasing closed headphones, external noise might smear that subtle advantage, and I use my Grados or Sennheiser HD800 open headphones for listening in a quiet room.  Thanks for your thoughts, Mortalcoil... only real place to find a variety of headphones to audition is a meet! Stores usually just have three or four brands at most.
  

*Isolation vs. frequency of Fostex TH-900 (blue), Beyer T5P (red), Shure SE535 IEMs (green), and Grado PS1000 (orange).  Lower values correspond to more isolation.*


----------



## Hifihedgehog

james-uk said:


> Maybe sennheiser are bringing out a HD800 revision that isn't hand assembled so the skilled workers that do that work can assemble the new flagship? That way they can continue to sell the HD800 like the 600/650 (with similar quality controls) ie not as precise as is now with HD800 and the new flagship will have the current attention to detail . Just some thoughts . Basically a more mass produced HD800 with cheaper build cost and 'HD900' with the 'hand made in Germany ' treatment.


 

 I'm anxious for this epic flagship/summit-fi/megabucks trend to end and for this technology to finally trickle down to HD650/HD600 price levels. Not all of us have the time or physical ability to donate 100 quarts of plasma to afford excessive, extravagance expense.


----------



## Hifihedgehog

thinker said:


> Sennheiser HD 800  Headphones are discontinued by manufacturer


 
  
  


icebear said:


> The Senneiser US site still shows the "buy now" button :
> http://en-us.sennheiser.com/dynamic-headphones-high-end-around-ear-hd-800
> 
> When you hit it, it will just tell you that it currently out of stock and will ship in 7 to 10 days:
> ...


 
  
  


wuwhere said:


> Its the *UK Amazon* that lists it as discontinued.


 
  
  


thinker said:


> The buy button has disappeared for HD-800 /Sennheiser Germany  http://de-de.sennheiser.com/over-ear-kopfhoerer


 

 I just went backward page by page from the thread's end looking to see if the rumors were true and, I have to say, I am inclined to believe the HD800 is being discontinued. Given these conditions, judging by how much the Denon AH-Dx000 line skyrocketed in price upon being discontinued, I could easily see the new in-box HD800's going for STAX and Audeze LCD3 prices. It is very possible the HD800 has reached collector's item status.


----------



## money4me247

hifihedgehog said:


> I just went backward page by page from the thread's end looking to see if the rumors were true and, I have to say, I am inclined to believe the HD800 is being discontinued. Given these conditions, judging by how much the Denon AH-Dx000 line skyrocketed in price upon being discontinued, I could easily see the new in-box HD800's going for STAX and Audeze LCD3 prices. It is very possible the HD800 has reached collector's item status.


 
  
 This rumor is extremely unlikely as the item is still in stock at most retailers. Also, CES passed without a Sennheiser flagship announcement, so at least another year before such rumors gain any credibility.


----------



## Hifihedgehog

money4me247 said:


> This rumor is extremely unlikely as the item is still in stock at most retailers. Also, CES passed without a Sennheiser flagship announcement, so at least another year before such rumors gain any credibility.


 

 It certainly isn't out of the question, given the traditional four to six year release cadence Sennheiser flagship models have followed to date. With this hypothetic release of their next flagship, Sennheiser may be trying a different approach since the competition from HiFiMAN and, to a smaller extent, Audeze, has raised their game by several leagues:
  
 2015 - ?
 2009 - Sennheiser HD800
 2003 - Sennheiser HD650
 1997 - Sennheiser HD600
 1993 - Sennheiser HD580


----------



## money4me247

hifihedgehog said:


> It certainly isn't out of the question, given the traditional four to six year release cadence Sennheiser flagship models have followed to date. With this hypothetic release of their next flagship, Sennheiser may be trying a different approach since the competition from HiFiMAN and, to a smaller extent, Audeze, has raised their game by several leagues:
> 
> 2015 - ?
> 2009 - Sennheiser HD800
> ...


 
  
 Not happening this year. But if you can believe whatever you want


----------



## Hifihedgehog

money4me247 said:


> Not happening this year. But if you can believe whatever you want


 

 But wouldn't you say the HE-560 which you own is probably putting the heat on Sennheiser to speed R&D? HE-560 is a really, really good pair of headphones from what I have been told and quite a few prefer it to the HD800. I think that is enough to convince Sennheiser that they should up their game a bit, if not this year, certainly the next.


----------



## akhyar

hifihedgehog said:


> But wouldn't you say the HE-560 which you own is probably putting the heat on Sennheiser to speed R&D? HE-560 is a really, really good pair of headphones from what I have been told and quite a few prefer it to the HD800. I think that is enough to convince Sennheiser that they should up their game a bit, if not this year, certainly the next.


 
  
 Having auditioned the stock HE-560 a few times, to me the sound quality of the HE-560 making it like a "baby HD800".
 But seeing that Sennheiser has not discontinued the HD600 and 650, I don't think they will discontinue the HD800 just yet as people are still buying them


----------



## money4me247

hifihedgehog said:


> But wouldn't you say the HE-560 which you own is probably putting the heat on Sennheiser to speed R&D? HE-560 is a really, really good pair of headphones from what I have been told and quite a few prefer it to the HD800. I think that is enough to convince Sennheiser that they should up their game a bit, if not this year, certainly the next.


 
 sure, in the future they may update their flagship, but there aren't any credible rumors out currently right now.
  
 next year is a possibility, but i wouldn't get your hopes up.


----------



## MacedonianHero

money4me247 said:


> sure, in the future they may update their flagship, but there aren't any credible rumors out currently right now.
> 
> next year is a possibility, but i wouldn't get your hopes up.


 
 ^ Bingo!


----------



## RUMAY408

akhyar said:


> Having auditioned the stock HE-560 a few times, to me the sound quality of the HE-560 making it like a "baby HD800".
> But seeing that Sennheiser has not discontinued the HD600 and 650, I don't think they will discontinue the HD800 just yet as people are still buying them


 

 I think "baby HD800" is a good description that was my opinion at a recent meet.  A modded 560 at the Music City meet struck me as the bang for your buck winner at that meet.
  
 The HD800 is still my favorite HP.


----------



## MickeyVee

I owned the HE560 for a while.  Although it really is a good headphone, I kept putting it aside for the HD800.  Now, If I didn't own the HD800, the HE560 may be the next best headphone I have owned and would have been satisfied.  It's really an HD800 wanna be, close but no cigar with the HD800 excelling in every regard.  I ended up selling the HE560 after 6 weeks.  Ended up with the HE400i because it was different enough, had lower expectations and it works well with my AK100 II around the house for casual/fun listening.
  
 I still think it's going to be a while before the HD800 gets dethroned (especially given some of the great prices I've seen on them lately).
  
 Quote:


hifihedgehog said:


> But wouldn't you say the HE-560 which you own is probably putting the heat on Sennheiser to speed R&D? HE-560 is a really, really good pair of headphones from what I have been told and quite a few prefer it to the HD800. I think that is enough to convince Sennheiser that they should up their game a bit, if not this year, certainly the next.


----------



## sirpandalot

> I owned the HE560 for a while.  Although it really is a good headphone, I kept putting it aside for the HD800.  Now, If I didn't own the HD800, the HE560 may be the next best headphone I have owned and would have been satisfied.  It's really an HD800 wanna be, close but no cigar with the HD800 excelling in every regard.  I ended up selling the HE560 after 6 weeks.  Ended up with the HE400i because it was different enough, had lower expectations and it works well with my AK100 II around the house for casual/fun listening.


 
  
 Coming from HE 500, I hope I get the same satisfaction as you when i get my HD 800 next week! Although I probably will still keep my HE500 for a while


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I have both the HD800 and the HE-500. The thing that the HE-500 does that my HD 800 does not (even though amped by Sennheiser's own HDVD 800) is to provide viscerally palpable bass, bass that you can feel, while still giving excellent high frequencies and speed. The only other headphones I have that do that are IEMs (the AKG K3003 and the T-PEOS H200). My Beats Studio 2013 can provide similar bass, but does not have the same treble transparency (perhaps due to its active noise cancelling). The Yamaha PRO 500, also a bass headphone, does a better job on the treble, but is just a bit weaker in the bass.


----------



## Sorrodje

rgs9200m said:


> I like my HD800 a lot some of the time; it's dependent on the recording like no other phone I've had. It's less a frequency response thing (the highs), and more of the way it can make a vocal or other sustained-note instrument sound hashy or raspy
> if it's on the recording. When things are lined up well, it's like no other phone, and just superb though.
> Even Stax 009s are not nearly as sensitive or variable with the recording. The HD800 is variable in presenting the texture of each musical component.
> Therefore I never recommend it to a novice or someone just starting out in the world of high end audiophile headphones.




I definitely agree.


----------



## MattTCG

hifihedgehog said:


> But wouldn't you say the HE-560 which you own is probably putting the heat on Sennheiser to speed R&D? HE-560 is a really, really good pair of headphones from what I have been told and *quite a few prefer it to the HD800*. I think that is enough to convince Sennheiser that they should up their game a bit, if not this year, certainly the next.


 
  
 Not to my ears. The hd800 embarrasses the he560 on imaging, sound stage and separation. But the real defining difference between the two is tone. On a good amp/dac the hd800 reproduces a truly realistic tone of voices and instruments that the he560 just can not match. I owned both hp's together for two months. Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the he560 for what it offers at it's price point.


----------



## EddieE

I think it’s possible the current HD800 are being discontinued for an improved version. Not an HD900 per se, but more like an HD800-ii.
  
 It’s natural that US stores would have stock for longer if it was discontinued. Sennheiser US probably imports stock in larger quantities from Europe to keep costs down.
  
 In Europe, stores can top up stock as and when at little cost, since they are made in Germany, and so likely keep smaller stocks which will run out quicker when discontinued.
  
 Anyway, I don’t see how a revision would be a bad thing. Despite being very innovative in world-class in certain areas, it’s a flawed headphone. 
  
 If given the licence to by Sennheiser, why would Grell and the high end team not want to continue to improve the design with time?


----------



## Sorrodje

eddiee said:


> Anyway, I don’t see how a revision would be a bad thing. Despite being very innovative in world-class in certain areas, it’s a flawed headphone.
> If given the licence to by Sennheiser, why would Grell and the high end team not want to continue to improve the design with time?


 
  
 Sure.
  
 But working on "flaws" ( which one ? Lack of speed against Stats ? Acoustics resonnance ? sub bass distorsion under 30 hz ? ) is not an easy task. improving something could also brings a new flaw elsewhere. The HD800 is surely a flawed headphone but improve it without shortcoming is a true challenge that could cost a lot of R&D time for Sennheiser. R&D time costs money. Lot of money and HD800 sales are maybe the best in the entire Hi End headphone world so why Invest so much money right now ?
  
 If you're talking about FR such as "too much treble for your tastes" or " not enough bass for your music" or "not enough bodied mids for me" . Then we're not talking about "flaws" but about personal preferences. Right ? 
  
 Improving things for your tastes could be problematic for other people who haven't the same preferences. 
  
 Do the new competitors such as Audeze LCD3F or LCD-X or HE560 or AKG K812 outperform the HD800 ? Obviously the answer is no even if they're more enjoyable for many people.  Do Stax Omegas or Jpslabs Abyss ouperform the HD800 ? Obviously for some points yes , and not for others and we all know experienced audiophiles who choosed the HD800 over Omegas or Abyss for their TOTL rig.  
  
 My point is not to say that the HD800 is the best headphone in the world. My point is : Why Sennheiser would be obliged to release a new headphone to replace the HD800 while it currently competes with the best headphone in the world and while Senn sells 6000 pairs per year.
  
 What do you want guys ? More Drama or what?


----------



## EddieE

sorrodje said:


> Sure.
> 
> But working on "flaws" ( which one ? Lack of speed against Stats ? Acoustics resonnance ? sub bass distorsion under 30 hz ? ) is not an easy task. improving something could also brings a new flaw elsewhere. The HD800 is surely a flawed headphone but improve it without shortcoming is a true challenge that could cost a lot of R&D time for Sennheiser. R&D time costs money. Lot of money and HD800 sales are maybe the best in the entire Hi End headphone world so why Invest so much money right now ?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can identify 3 obvious areas for improvement:
  
 1) The damping issue highlighted by the Anaxilus mod. If your flagship can be objectively improved with a small piece of felt, I can imagine its engineers might want to take the solution into their own hands.
  
 2) Not really a big deal, but it is missing a few db of sub bass to be called linear. It’s an area for improvement, even if it’s not exactly make-or-break. That distortion under 30db is really not audible as bass at that level is just rumble anyway.
  
 The biggest problem of all though is, as you point out, a bit more preference based…
  
 3) The curve it is engineered towards is basically wrong.
  
 It looks a lot to me like they tuned these to the diffuse field equalisation curve. If they didn’t, it’s uncanny how similar the uncompensated response is to it. If they did, well hats off to them for a great engineering job, but it’s still wrong. The diffuse field curve is not appropriate for headphones as it does not lead to a subjectively neutral response. 
  
 The curve used by Innerfidelity, Headroom and everyone else is also clearly wrong – even the brightest headphones show as having attenuated upper mids and treble, so I really don’t know why we persevere with it when we all know it’s wrong.
  
 The closest I have seen to a curve that leads to a plot that actually looks like the headphones sound is the Harman/Olive curve. The sub-bass is a little wrong and shows sub bass lower than it should be, but from mids to high frequencies it seems to be a perfect match to my subjective impressions.
  
 With that curve we can see the problems with the HD800’s FR  very clearly - a pretty extreme 10db rise from 1k to 6k and then some wild peaky high frequencies beyond. That shows what I hear. 
  
 I guess this point 3 should be more aimed at the HD900 though. The HD800 are what they are, and are not really my cup of tea, which is a shame as some of the things they do (crazy low distortion, best sound staging in any headphones yet, incredibly fast transients, smooth sweet mids) I love. 
  
 I just cannot deal with that wonky, unnatural frequency response.


----------



## dxanex

All's I know is that I've been in this hobby for over 4 years now, read a lot of BS and seen crazy hype come and go. I've heard some of the most expensive headphones in the word at various meets, and at the end of the day the HD 800 is still one of the best headphones I've ever listened to, and strived to obtain ever since I first head them at my first head-fi meet.
  
 All this talk of a new update/flagship is exciting, but also silly considering every CES everyone seems to think Sennheiser is going to unveil the penultimate headphone (which they already did with the Orpheus) and kill off the HD 800 just like they killed off the crappy HD 650 ---> (sarcasm).
  
 I didn't even realize that I've been listening to my HD800 now for over 2 hours and forgot they were even on my head and totally lost track of time. Sure, they aren't for everybody but I don't think Sennheiser is quick to change the formula on a headphone that many consider to be the best in the world. Maybe I'll be proven wrong and whatever new they have up their sleeve will make me turn my nose up at the HD 800 one day, but I doubt it'll be anytime soon. And I doubt I'll be able to afford it without selling off most of my gear anyway.
  
 My opinion/rant.


----------



## Dopaminer




----------



## icebear

eddiee said:


> ...
> *The curve used by Innerfidelity, Headroom and everyone else is also clearly wrong* – even the brightest headphones show as having attenuated upper mids and treble, so I really don’t know why we persevere with it *when we all know it’s wrong.*
> 
> .....
> I just cannot deal with that wonky, *unnatural frequency response. *


 
  
 ROFL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Everyone is wrong and can't see the truth but you is it ?
 When was the last time you have actually heard acoustic instruments live ?
 Have you listened to acoustic music on the HD800 and it sounds all wrong to you ?


----------



## EddieE

dxanex said:


> All's I know is that I've been in this hobby for over 4 years now, read a lot of BS and seen crazy hype come and go. I've heard some of the most expensive headphones in the word at various meets, and at the end of the day the HD 800 is still one of the best headphones I've ever listened to, and strived to obtain ever since I first head them at my first head-fi meet.
> 
> All this talk of a new update/flagship is exciting, but also silly considering every CES everyone seems to think Sennheiser is going to unveil the penultimate headphone (which they already did with the Orpheus) and kill off the HD 800 just like they killed off the crappy HD 650 ---> (sarcasm).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree that I don't think the rumoured new e'stat flagship and the rumoured discontinuation of the HD800 are actually related.
  
 My guess is that they are going to discontinue the HD800 for an HD800-ii (or something like that), and that the e'stat flagship will be a totally separate venture. 
  
 It would make a lot of business sense to improve it, and in the years since it released they are bound to have found ways to do so.
  
 After a few years on the market anyone can breeze into the for sale forums and get the product for less, while other newer products take the “flavour of the month” ribbon. 
  
 Diminishing returns are natural no matter how good your product is. 
  
 If they put out an HD800-ii then suddenly no one wants to buy the used HD800, even in perfect condition. A lot of the existing HD800 owners are tempted to upgrade. People like me who liked a lot about the HD800 but didn’t like other things become interested again all of a sudden. It’s the latest and greatest for the crowd that follows the flavour of the month…
  
 It’s just good business.


----------



## EddieE

icebear said:


> ROFL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 ... yes I'm certainly the only person in the world to state that the HD800 has an unnatural frequency response. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Many acoustic instruments and vocals actually sound pretty close to perfect on the HD800.
  
 They would since it's issues begin around 2khz when the fundamentals are largely over and only become serious around 4khz in the upper registers of their harmonics. 
  
 It is percussion - particularly cymbals and brushes on snares, some instruments like harps and picolos, and a lot of sounds found in electronic genres that suffer.
  
 People talk about the HD800 being bad with some recordings and good with others like there is some kind of black magic going on.
  
 There's no mystery to it at all: If the track has a lot going on above 4khz its going to be painful. If they have little going on above 4khz they are going to sound lovely.


----------



## Sorrodje

eddiee said:


> The HD800 are what they are, and are not really my cup of tea, which is a shame as some of the things they do (crazy low distortion, best sound staging in any headphones yet, incredibly fast transients, smooth sweet mids) I love.
> I just cannot deal with that wonky, unnatural frequency response.


 
  
 I personaly have no problem with the frequency response, I personaly don't think the HD800 Soundstage is the best of the world ( Abyss one is IMO slightly better) I don''t think the HD800 is incredibly fast ( All stax I tried are faster) and I don't think HD800 have smooth sweet mids. I even think mids are maybe the worst flaw of the HD800 and I even think that this flaw makes the HD800 an incredible headphone for classical music because a lot of classical recordings are mid centric. I compared carefully my HD800 to a SR009 (EC Electra as amp) and FR of both headphones are close in my opinion. the HD800 is a bit brighter where the SR009 is more neutral with fuller mids. Just my opinion based on a short (but qualitative) experience. 
  
 So we're not talking about absolute truth but only subjectives opinions. Fortunately the Headphone world is large enough to provides many options for different listeners and I don't see why the HD800 would be transformed to please to .. let's say .. Audeze fans . As much as I like the Audeze I tried , I much prefer the FR of the HD800  . Even if Olive/welti said what the "best" (??) FR is , I really don't care. My ears are what matters for me.
  
 About Anax mod'. Never tried Yet but I hope to grab one soon to make my own opinion. I never felt any necessity of it until now . I think it's because I listen mostly to well recorded music and because my DAC and my amp smoothen it a bit ... even a bit too much for my tastes. Not sure yet .. but I have to manage with my musical tastes and I listen to a lot of EDMs who are definitely mastered too often (but not always) with too treble. IMO , YMMV ans so on.


----------



## dxanex

eddiee said:


> I agree that I don't think the rumoured new e'stat flagship and the rumoured discontinuation of the HD800 are actually related.
> 
> My guess is that they are going to discontinue the HD800 for an HD800-ii (or something like that), and that the e'stat flagship will be a totally separate venture.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, sure I'm with you on the good business part, but Sennheiser has quietly made changes in the past right? They changed the old HD 650 black drivers to the new silver ones...but they didn't call it anything else but a HD 650. And from what I understand there's debate on whether or not changing the drivers really did much of anything sonically (veil vs non-veil argument).
  
 Some people have claimed that early HD800's don't sound quite like the most recent HD800's, so who's to say they haven't already been making subtle changes here and there? (Personally I think any change is much more dependent on amping/source than serial number). I'm not disagreeing with you, I guess my point is that if they make any _significant_ change it will likely be a whole new model and they will keep the HD 800 the way it is. No way they will drastically change the HD 800 as it stands.


----------



## hekeli

eddiee said:


> I can identify 3 obvious areas for improvement:
> 
> 1) The damping issue highlighted by the Anaxilus mod. If your flagship can be objectively improved with a small piece of felt, I can imagine its engineers might want to take the solution into their own hands.


 
  
 Yet many people prefer it without the mod as it takes something special away.
  
  


> 2) Not really a big deal, but it is missing a few db of sub bass to be called linear. It’s an area for improvement, even if it’s not exactly make-or-break. That distortion under 30db is really not audible as bass at that level is just rumble anyway.


 
  
 I guess you can tell us how to tune a super open dynamic transducer (not planar) headphone with lots of subbass and sensible distortion figures, keep it tight and snappy? And do this without sacrificing nothing from higher up? Funny how no one has managed this simple feat yet..


----------



## EddieE

hekeli said:


> Yet many people prefer it without the mod as it takes something special away.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you can tell us how to tune a super open dynamic transducer (not planar) headphone with lots of subbass and sensible distortion figures, keep it tight and snappy? And do this without sacrificing nothing from higher up? Funny how no one has managed this simple feat yet..


 
  
 Like I said, I don't see linear bass below 60hz as vital for headphones and speakers. If they can improve it a bit, great, but I don't see it as a deal breaker. 
  
 Re. the mod. 
  
 Headphone designers, good ones, are engineers not artists. 
  
 The FR response of the HD800 (I suspect anyway) is as it is as they were aiming for the Diffuse Field Equalisation curve. They got extremely close to it, so objectively as engineers, they succeeded. 
  
 The curve is not neutral, but like you say, some will like it anyway. 
  
 The Anaxilus mod addresses an actual flaw (I suspect a reflection off the metal inside of the ear cup) - that is an engineering oversight. I image they want to fix it.


----------



## hekeli

eddiee said:


> The Anaxilus mod addresses an actual flaw (I suspect a reflection off the metal inside of the ear cup) - that is an engineering oversight. I image they want to fix it.


 
  
 Flaw, intentional feature or a ring radiator physical necessity. Yeah I'm sure Sennheiser never measured the phone or detected this "feature", good thing it came up now as it has never been discussed or researched before! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Hey I'm all for a great new flagship even if there are 5 coming every year from every manufacturer. But it's still going to be that, just another phone with a little different signature. Let's see who will build the "most neutral" phone this year.


----------



## EddieE

hekeli said:


> Flaw, intentional feature or a ring radiator physical necessity. Yeah I'm sure Sennheiser never measured the phone or detected this "feature", good thing it came up now as it has never been discussed or researched before!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 ... Which can be damped as the Anaxilus mod demonstrates. 
  
 This argument that "if there was a problem, why wouldn't they spot it" suggests engineers are infallible. 
  
 Every speaker and head phone has flaws which get addressed with revisions and new models, and that is how technology continues to improve. 
  
 Until we literally cannot tell the difference between a transducer and real life, there is still work to be done.


----------



## hekeli

eddiee said:


> ... Which can be damped as the Anaxilus mod demonstrates.
> 
> This argument that "if there was a problem, why wouldn't they spot it" suggests engineers are infallible.


 
  
 Quote from Tyll: 





> BTW, Axel Grell is aware of the mod and said they did play around with something like it during development. He thinks it's a legit mod.


 
  
 Enough said I guess. EQ or damp as you please, engineers will also do as they please.


----------



## EddieE

hekeli said:


> BTW, Axel Grell is aware of the mod and said they did play around with something like it during development. He thinks it's a legit mod.


 
  
 I attended a presentation Axel Grell gave in London and one thing that struck me he spoke about the HD800 was their desire to remove variables between models, and variations in performance over time.  
  
 He was saying that these can come about from soft or open materials which can degrade and vary both between models and also over time.
  
 For instance, the HD600 and HD650 allowed energy to disperse between the driver and the ear by using open pads made of open foam covered in fabric. But as the headphones are worn, the pads compress becoming less open, and the fabric gathers natural oils, also becoming more closed. 
  
 Their solution was the perforated metal earcup and thin closed pad. They could perfectly control how open it was with no degradation and little variability. 
  
 If I was to guess why they did not use soft material damping here, that would be it. 
  
 It doesn't mean they would not want to damp it, just that doing so without a soft fabric might have taken more research and time than they had (i.e. it would have to be changes to the actual metal piece).
  
 They might want to come back to that.


----------



## Zoom25

http://imgur.com/a/nc4OS#bwKbz42


----------



## icebear

zoom25 said:


> http://imgur.com/a/nc4OS#bwKbz42


 
  
 Wow, some solid information for a change 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and not speculation about the HD800 being discontinued and a new flagship being imminent. But I guess it will not stop anything. It would spoil all the fun


----------



## EddieE

icebear said:


> Wow, some solid information for a change
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 To be fair it probably will not stop speculation since this is from Sennheiser US tech support.
  
 The headphones rapidly disappearing from European shops and being listed as discontinued seems a bit more concrete as this is a European company.
  
 As far as the new flagship goes... I haven't been following too closely but my understanding was that its been soft-confirmed by insiders that it is in development?


----------



## elvergun

eddiee said:


> To be fair it probably will not stop speculation since this is from Sennheiser US tech support.


 
  
    Haha...so true.
  
   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
    It certainly did not stop you from speculating:
  


eddiee said:


> The headphones rapidly disappearing from European shops and being listed as discontinued seems a bit more concrete as this is a European company.
> 
> As far as the new flagship goes... I haven't been following too closely but my understanding was that its been soft-confirmed by insiders that it is in development?


----------



## money4me247

eddiee said:


> To be fair it probably will not stop speculation since this is from Sennheiser US tech support.
> 
> The headphones rapidly *disappearing from European shops and being listed as discontinued* seems a bit more concrete as this is a European company.
> 
> As far as the new flagship goes... I haven't been following too closely but my understanding was that its been soft-confirmed by insiders that it is in development?


 
  
 ...or maybe a few European retailers ran out of stock or misentered the info in their system. the hd800 still seems widely available from most retailers.
  
 Also, I don't see why the HD800 would be discontinued prior to the release of a new flagship. They would want to clear all their old stock first.
  
 When has a headphone manufacturer preemptively discontinued their current model prior to the release of a new version? that seems extremely counter-intuitive. I feel like it makes the most sense to discontinued the HD800 AFTER the new flagship is available for purchasing.....
  
 Hence, these rumors seem nothing more than silliness.


----------



## Hifihedgehog

money4me247 said:


> ...or maybe a few European retailers ran out of stock or misentered the info in their system. the hd800 still seems widely available from most retailers.
> 
> Also, I don't see why the HD800 would be discontinued prior to the release of a new flagship. They would want to clear all their old stock first.
> 
> ...


 
 I'll play devil's advocate against my own speculation and say, alternatively, this may be simply because of the large volume of purchasing from the holiday shopping season.


----------



## Hifihedgehog

icebear said:


> Wow, some solid information for a change
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


zoom25 said:


> http://imgur.com/a/nc4OS#bwKbz42


 
 It looks legitimate enough but, judging by the grammar, it looks like an off-shored help agent who just knows the standard answers and wouldn't know very much about such things. As a tablet reviewer, I sometimes try to interface with computer manufacturer's help agents to try to get some leads. But sometimes I get some very interesting answers that contradict press releases and are entirely false. On one occasion, I asked a Lenovo agent about an upcoming tablet and he said it wasn't coming out and it did not exist, all contrary to what the company had officially published at a computer convention just days before.
  
 Now, this agent could be right but he could also be wrong. You could try to reach top-tier support or try contacting Sennheiser PR and see if you get anywhere doing that.


----------



## Zoom25




----------



## Hifihedgehog

zoom25 said:


>


 

 I bet this will make you happy as a clam! Answer: The Sennheiser HD800 is not being discontinued in the immediate future. End of story. In fact, they are available for purchase again on Sennheiser USA as of this morning. My other theory on a shortage from the holiday sales was likely right--not exactly what I hoped for but that's the way things are. Sorry to get anyone's hopes up!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



 

 




 *HeadRoom Support* (HeadRoom Support)
Jan 08 11:18 AM

Hello,

I assure you the HD 800 is not being replaced any time soon. It's still available on Sennheiser's website along with all other authorized dealers like us. I know it will probably be a couple more years before Sennheiser makes a new version of the 800, but that will certainly be a very magical day. Sorry to disappoint you and please let us know if you have any other questions.

Thank you for contacting HeadRoom Support!

  

 
  

 




 *Hifihedgehog*
Jan 07 06:59 PM

Are the rumors true that the HD800 is finally being discontinued? They are no longer available for purchase directly from Sennheiser USA or Germany, Amazon.co.uk, and several other retailers. If you not bound by NDA, is there rumor in the wind of a new flagship coming later this year?


----------



## money4me247

lol. toldja so!
  
 the original rumors weren't really based on anything solid. just someone randomly speculating.


----------



## Hifihedgehog

money4me247 said:


> lol. toldja so!
> 
> the original rumors weren't really based on anything solid. just someone randomly speculating.


 

 It was a 50-50 guess either way. The fact that Amazon UK, Germany and France, Sennheiser USA and Germany, and several other pro audio and Hi-Fi online retailers no longer stocked or had the product available for a week or even had it listed as "discontinued by manufacturer" would have led anyone to believe strongly in discontinuation. I still think the Sennheiser HD800 is just a tad overrated. I listened to it and, despite its magnificent layering and detail recovery, I thought it lacked lowest octave impact and some treble refinement for its price range, but that's a discussion for another day and a different thread. For now, we're stuck with the HD800 as a contender for world's best headphone, for better or for worse.
  
 Meanwhile, I inwardly hope the HiFiMAN HE-1000 kicks the Sennheiser HD800's butt in price and performance.


----------



## ubs28

hifihedgehog said:


> It looks legitimate enough but, judging by the grammar, it looks like an off-shored help agent who just knows the standard answers and wouldn't know very much about such things. As a tablet reviewer, I sometimes try to interface with computer manufacturer's help agents to try to get some leads. But sometimes I get some very interesting answers that contradict press releases and are entirely false. On one occasion, I asked a Lenovo agent about an upcoming tablet and he said it wasn't coming out and it did not exist, all contrary to what the company had officially published at a computer convention just days before.
> 
> Now, this agent could be right but he could also be wrong. You could try to reach top-tier support or try contacting Sennheiser PR and see if you get anywhere doing that.


 

 My dealer also asked the same question to Sennheiser when I bought my HD800 a few months ago. Sennheiser said that the HD800 won't get replaced anytime soon. Hence why I would have been very disappointed in Sennheiser if they actually did release a HD800 replacement because then they would have basically lied to me and my dealer.


----------



## Dadracer

The HD800 is the best sounding headphone I have heard for £1000. I have not heard the Stax 009 but it is more money than I have available to spend on a set of headphones so I'm happy in my ignorance!!!!!


----------



## pearljam50000

How is it possible to get them for less than 1500$?


----------



## plonter

Enjoying right now from my new HD800.  In the past I had: Grado RS1, HD650, Denon AH-D5000...and more.  But this is certainly THE best headphone I heard so far!  they are amazing!!  eargasmes all over the place LOL.
 they sure have a little bothering sibilance but as a Grado fanatic I got used to it very fast 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.     I hope it will get a little softer with additional burn in.  
 Anyway,the rest of my gear is a litte low level for them..especially the dac.  I use a Dragonfly into a headroom ultra micro amp ,which is a pretty decent SS amp..But I already investigating upgrade options.  
 But I must say, even with the low/mid level rig, they sound fantastic!  I can just imagine how they will sound with better gear.     any suggestions?


----------



## Sorrodje

plonter said:


> any suggestions?


 
  
 Dac : Schitt Modi or  bifrost , dacmagic  ( the old one is cheaper and as good as current ones)
 Amp : Matrix M-stage, Meier Corda Jazz, Schitt Vali, Valhalla 2
  
 That's good well regarded and affordable options.


----------



## RUMAY408

sorrodje said:


> Dac : Schitt Modi or  bifrost , dacmagic  ( the old one is cheaper and as good as current ones)
> Amp : Matrix M-stage, Meier Corda Jazz, Schitt Vali, Valhalla 2
> 
> That's good well regarded and affordable options.


 

 I'll 2nd that and add that the Dragonfly and a decent player off the computer might be enough then you can spend more for the amp.


----------



## pearljam50000

Sorry for the stupid question, but is it possible to use the HD800 with a sub?


----------



## MattTCG

pearljam50000 said:


> Sorry for the stupid question, but is it possible to use the HD800 with a* sub*?


 
 As in sandwich?


----------



## plonter

rumay408 said:


> I'll 2nd that and add that the Dragonfly and a decent player off the computer might be enough then you can spend more for the amp.


 
 Glad to hear that    The Dragonfly is excelent, but I just can't expect the fact that such a tiny thing can sound as good as the more bigger units.


----------



## frankrondaniel

matttcg said:


> As in sandwich?


 
  
 LOL - thanks for the laugh after a tough work day!


----------



## pearljam50000

Subwoofer (;


matttcg said:


> As in sandwich? :blink:


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> Sorry for the stupid question, but is it possible to use the HD800 with a sub?


 

 Yup.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

pearljam50000 said:


> Sorry for the stupid question, but is it possible to use the HD800 with a sub?


Of course, just use a splitter into a powered sub. I've never tried it, and considering the sound delay and that it might mess up the frequency response I wouldn't. It's worth a try though.


----------



## RUMAY408

plonter said:


> Glad to hear that    The Dragonfly is excelent, but I just can't expect the fact that such a tiny thing can sound as good as the more bigger units.


 

 For more portable use:
 I've run it off my Mac>Amarra 3.02>DF>ALO MK3B+>HD800


----------



## uelover

rumay408 said:


> For more portable use:
> I've run it off my Mac>Amarra 3.02>DF>ALO MK3B+>HD800


 
  
 You've missed out the addition of a sub as discussed above.


----------



## RUMAY408

uelover said:


> You've missed out the addition of a sub as discussed above.


 






I'm eating popcorn right now, sub talk will be saved for later


----------



## fpsoft1

pearljam50000 said:


> Sorry for the stupid question, but is it possible to use the HD800 with a sub?


 
 Don't know if I can help, some weeks ago a I saw on the web a cushion for armchair (from back to seat) that transmits vibrations according to the bass frequencies in the music you are listening in hedphone (I think it may be attached with a jack to the amp). I don't remember if it was a prototype, but I liked the idea. The bass vibrations with external silence.


----------



## Blackmore

Why?
  
 Quote:


pearljam50000 said:


> Sorry for the stupid question, but is it possible to use the HD800 with a sub?


----------



## GardenVariety

pearljam50000 said:


> Sorry for the stupid question, but is it possible to use the HD800 with a sub?


 

 A better idea may be to use with a tactile transducer like a buttkicker. I use this type of setup with a custom riser and recliner and it's amazing.


----------



## yzhengyu

hifihedgehog said:


> Meanwhile, I inwardly hope the HiFiMAN HE-1000 kicks the Sennheiser HD800's butt in price and performance.


 
  
 Well, if all the speculation in the HE-1000 is true, that's unlikely since it is going to be 2500++ USD and one of the reasons why I chose the HD800 was that it was much more comfortable and well, less costly than the LCD-3f. And at this level, the flagships don't really have glaring flaws - the only difference between them is really just their sonic signatures.


----------



## pearljam50000

Maybe it will sound more like speakers this way...
 Quote:


blackmore said:


>


----------



## Blackmore

they will not and if you like speakers on your head, get K1000, but thats another story
  
 Quote:


pearljam50000 said:


>


----------



## Blackmore

people should stop complain about weak bass or else and get decent and most important, matched system for HD800. all you read how lifeless and such they are, well, not here.
  
 Try this:
  
 Unison Reasearch Unico CD player
 Blacknote DAC30
 Sonic Pearl headphone amp
  
 will leave IC, power supply and power cables out of this, however...so, if thats not going to give you good results, I dont know what will.


----------



## Sorrodje

Yup There' re many options at many price point to make the HD800 sing as it does.  If people don't like the HD800 from a Modi/Vali or a Dacmagic/Corda Jazz, then the best way to go is to find another headphone. No magical rig will transform the HD800 into something different. Better rigs only make sound the HD800 better but with always the same personality. period


----------



## preproman

*"If people don't like the HD800 from a Modi/Vali or a Dacmagic/Corda Jazz, then the best way to go is to find another headphone."*
  
 Well, I for one am sure glad I don't take advice like this.  
  
 Those low end rigs are not the bar for some.  There are always something better, not saying magic but still better.  If your not willing to put the effort in to get really good SQ out then yes get antoher headphone.  If you are willing to give some effort and have a higher buget that you can play with - you will get better results.  Plain and simple, the HD800 will sound better with better gear.


----------



## Dopaminer

Plus, for the price of a sub+HD800, you could pick up a damn nice pair of speakers.  Then again, if you had a decent speaker amp to drive the speakers, you could run the HD800 off the speaker taps and you wouldn`t need the sub.  
  
 Anyway, as has been said many times : those people who claim the HD800 is bass-light have simply not yet heard them driven well.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

dopaminer said:


> Plus, for the price of a sub+HD800, you could pick up a damn nice pari of speakers.  Then again, if you had a decent speaker amp to drive the speakers, you could run the HD800 off the speaker taps and you wouldn`t need the sub.
> 
> Anyway, as has been said many times : those people who claim the HD800 is bass-light have simply not yet heard them driven well.



My HD 800s are driven by the Sennheiser HDVD 800, and I would never say they are lacking in bass. There is just the right amount, just as strong, but not more strong, than miss and treble. Also, there are no overemphasized trebles as some have found with other amps. 

The right amp makes such a difference.


----------



## RRod

dopaminer said:


> Plus, for the price of a sub+HD800, you could pick up a damn nice pari of speakers.  Then again, if you had a decent speaker amp to drive the speakers, you could run the HD800 off the speaker taps and you wouldn`t need the sub.
> 
> Anyway, as has been said many times : those people who claim the HD800 is bass-light have simply not yet heard them driven well.


 
  
 I hear plenty of bass just through a Magni. If there is bass, it comes out just fine through the HD800s.


----------



## Blackmore

guys, how many hours your HD800 got, before you start listen more critical? My are just passed 300 hours and still going, thinking of 500 hours to be sure of it.


----------



## Sorrodje

preproman said:


> *"If people don't like the HD800 from a Modi/Vali or a Dacmagic/Corda Jazz, then the best way to go is to find another headphone."*
> 
> Well, I for one am sure glad I don't take advice like this.
> 
> Those low end rigs are not the bar for some.  There are always something better, not saying magic but still better.  If your not willing to put the effort in to get really good SQ out then yes get antoher headphone.  If you are willing to give some effort and have a higher buget that you can play with - you will get better results.  Plain and simple, the HD800 will sound better with better gear.


 
  
 Sorry but you misunderstood what I said. English is not my native language so I presum it's my fault so I apologize for that.
  
 I don't say those rigs are good enough to benefit from the HD800 at its best. What I'm saying is even best rigs do not transform the HD800 in something fondamentaly different . If people don't like the HD800 with a modi/vali , I don't think they'll like it much more from a totadac/EC Balancing Act rig.  If people like the HD800 from entry level amps or dacs, they will surely like it much more from a perfectly matched rig.
  
 Sorry for the misunderstanding.


----------



## Sorrodje

blackmore said:


> guys, how many hours your HD800 got, before you start listen more critical? My are just passed 300 hours and still going, thinking of 500 hours to be sure of it.


 
  
 I think I'm between 1200 and 1500 hours with mine.  I listen to at least 2 or 3 hours of music a day every day of every week and the HD800 is my primary headphone . I own it since July 2013 I never had any problem with what I could call a lack of bass. I had problems with overall harshness for pop/ rock and some electronic music until I found my curent rig. since I have the Sonett/Octave I sold all my other phones and lost most of my interest to purchase other headphones except stats.
  
 I thought the Sonett/Octave was my end game rig but I'm not so convinced I'm happy enough. I need to be sure that I wouldn't prefer a SR007 or SR009 or even a HE-6 before investing more money in my HD800 rig.


----------



## Eee Pee

0.25 hours 

Passed 300 and going where?


----------



## Dopaminer

sorrodje said:


> Sorry but you misunderstood what I said. English is not my native language so I presum it's my fault so I apologize for that.
> 
> I don't say those rigs are good enough to benefit from the HD800 at its best. What I'm saying is even best rigs do not transform the HD800 in something fondamentaly different . If people don't like the HD800 with a modi/vali , I don't think they'll like it much more from a totadac/EC Balancing Act rig.  If people like the HD800 from entry level amps or dacs, they will surely like it much more from a perfectly matched rig.
> 
> Sorry for the misunderstanding.


 

 I thought you were clear enough first time (and English is my native language)


----------



## GardenVariety

The absolute only way to get any headphone to sound like speakers is through a Smyth Realiser with a tactile transducer. If you have this combo it sounds 98% like any speakers you can find.


----------



## Justin_Time

pearljam50000 said:


> Sorry for the stupid question, but is it possible to use the HD800 with a sub?


 
 Perljam50000,
  
 Sorry I just saw the (not-at-all stupid) question and may be too late to help.
  
 Yes, absolutely, you can use a sub with the HD800.  You sit on say a 12-inch sub and let the bass reverberate from your butt to your stomach, and up toward your head.
  
 Now, if you actually meant a sandwich like a 12-inch sub from Subway, then I strongly recommend that you reverse the direction.


----------



## kothganesh

justin_time said:


> Perljam50000,
> 
> Sorry I just saw the (not-at-all stupid) question and may be too late to help.
> 
> ...


 

 Must be Friday. TGIF


----------



## rgs9200m

blackmore said:


> people should stop complain[ing] about weak bass or else and get decent and most important, matched system for HD800. all you read how lifeless and such they are, well, not here.


 
 He is right. For me, the bass is actually one of the best HD800 features: the bass is strongly connected to the rest of the spectrum, not an amorphous blob or an separate background noise like you may get with a  bad subwoofer.
 A musical instrument that generates bass tones will sound like a single instrument, with the bass as part of it.
 And it's very thrilling to hear this affect, and the depth and quantity does not subjectively feel lacking or inadequate in any way. I never even think there is something about the bass that I would change when listening deeply to the 800.
 That's a quality I hear in the Stax 009, too.
 As much as like the Audeze LCD3 (which I admit is my main go-to phone these days, even though I still use my 800 a lot), the Audeze bass, while very satisfying and resonant, is more hall-ambient than instrument specific.
 So while I wouldn't say the HD800 is a phone where it's all about the bass, it's so well integrated, it's a major plus for the phone.


----------



## pearljam50000

Can u do a mini comparison with the 009? Thanks.


----------



## rgs9200m

The 009 to me is in a class by itself with speed, attack, and internal details, and it's a cliche I know, but it's like an open window vs. a shield compared to all phones I have known, even other Staxes.
 It's even more naturally open and insightful than the Orpheus (from memory). I own the 009, and this just with a lowly Stax 007t amp (retubed).


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks.
Damn, I was hoping you would say they are pretty close because I can't afford the 009 lol 
But its great to know such an amazing phone exists.


----------



## rgs9200m

Well, I actually hesitate to say that the the 009 is better in all ways than other phones, and I don't think I could live with them as my only phone, so don't feel bad. The 009 and HD800 and e.g. the LCD3 are different experiences,
 and at times one is preferable to the other. The 009 is more highlighted, and that's a plus and minus depending on my mood, the music I listen to (even good old northwest grunge from time to time), and just the fact that the same
 great music deserves different musical environments and I really like variety. I often will play a favorite album multiple times on different phones to hear different things. I love doing that.


----------



## Zoom25

I probably love the HD800 more for it's bass than it's soundstage. Even the vocals on HD800 are more important than the soundstage I'm getting. So bass and vocals tied for the favourite thing about HD800 for me, followed by soundstage. Just beats every headphone I've owned or tried at 2k or under.


----------



## astrostar59

rgs9200m said:


> The 009 to me is in a class by itself with speed, attack, and internal details, and it's a cliche I know, but it's like an open window vs. a shield compared to all phones I have known, even other Staxes.
> It's even more naturally open and insightful than the Orpheus (from memory). I own the 009, and this just with a lowly Stax 007t amp (retubed).


 
 Try the 009s with a KGSShv or BHSE, then the gap widens even more. Agreed, the 009 is an amazing phone, it scales so well with better amps which for me shows how great the design of it is.


----------



## ubs28

dadracer said:


> The HD800 is the best sounding headphone I have heard for £1000. I have not heard the Stax 009 but it is more money than I have available to spend on a set of headphones so I'm happy in my ignorance!!!!!


 

 Likewise. For that kind of money I rather buy high-end reference speakers.


----------



## elvergun

ubs28 said:


> Likewise. For that kind of money I rather buy high-end reference speakers.


 
  
 For that kind of money you buy really good set of speakers...not high-end reference speakers.


----------



## Acapella11

rgs9200m said:


> He is right. For me, the bass is actually one of the best HD800 features: the bass is strongly connected to the rest of the spectrum, not an amorphous blob or an separate background noise like you may get with a  bad subwoofer.
> A musical instrument that generates bass tones will sound like a single instrument, with the bass as part of it.
> And it's very thrilling to hear this affect, and the depth and quantity does not subjectively feel lacking or inadequate in any way. I never even think there is something about the bass that I would change when listening deeply to the 800.
> That's a quality I hear in the Stax 009, too.
> ...


 
  


zoom25 said:


> I probably love the HD800 more for it's bass than it's soundstage. Even the vocals on HD800 are more important than the soundstage I'm getting. So bass and vocals tied for the favourite thing about HD800 for me, followed by soundstage. Just beats every headphone I've owned or tried at 2k or under.


 
  
 I agree with the bass being a good feature of the HD800. I compared the HD800 and T1 on a Master 9 and the HD800 had more bass quantity when needed and it actually went deeper also. TheHD800 bass quality is really good, just the components need to be matched as it was said. I also agree that even though the stage is great, I do prefer the T1 stage. I have only heard the Stax 007 on a KGSS amp and even though the "viscerality" and intensity of the sound was amazing, as you could feel the guitar string rather than just hear it, the stage was too small for my liking.


----------



## Sorrodje

dopaminer said:


> I thought you were clear enough first time (and English is my native language)


 
  
 Dunno. it seems preproman didn"t understand me though?


----------



## Justin_Time

ubs28 said:


> Likewise. For that kind of money I rather buy high-end reference speakers.


 
 For that kind of money, you can get a good pair of speakers, but not high-end, and definitely not reference speakers, unless you buy something like the Maggies 3.7i (about $6,000) then you now have to spend beaucoup bucks ($10,000-$20,000 or more) to get a high-end amp with high-enough power to feed the hungry monsters . 
  
 High-end speaker systems have long ago escalated in price beyond the reach of mere mortals. That's one of the reasons why I transitioned into high-end headphone systems which are still about 1/5th that of high-end speaker systems.  
  
 Of course this fun won't last for ever either as we are starting to see $5,000 headphones and $10,000 headphone amps already.. So let's enjoy the HD800 and the Stax 009 while we still can.


----------



## ubs28

justin_time said:


> For that kind of money, you can get a good pair of speakers, not high-end, and definitely not reference speakers, unless you buy something like the Maggies 3.7i (about $6,000) then you now have to spend beaucoup bucks ($10,000-$20,000 or more) to get a high-end amp with high-enough power to feed the hungry monsters .
> 
> High-end speaker systems have long ago escalated in price beyond the reach of mere mortals. That's one of the reasons why I transitioned into high-end headphone systems which are still about 1/5th that of high-end speaker systems.
> 
> Of course this fun won't last for ever either as we are starting to see $5,000 headphones and $10,000 headphone amps already.. So let's enjoy the HD800 and the Stax 009 while we still can.


 

 The new reference line of KEF which can be had under 10k sounded much better than much more expensive B&W and Focal speakers to me. They are high-end to me which I'll probably be getting.


----------



## Zoom25

Active monitors...no need to worry about amps.


----------



## GardenVariety

I thought one of the major selling points of headphones was privacy and portability. I don't even know why we would discuss having $10K headphones instead of speakers unless there was a very good reason. Most people with that kind of money have both.


----------



## astrostar59

elvergun said:


> For that kind of money you buy really good set of speakers...not high-end reference speakers.


 
 You ain't gonna get high end reference speakers for the money of the 009s. I would pitch the 009s at 50K speakers upwards, easily.


----------



## fpsoft1

acapella11 said:


> I agree with the bass being a good feature of the HD800. The HD800 bass quality is really good, just the components need to be matched as it was said.


 
 I listen electronic, new wave, pop, rock, all genres wich need much impact. One year ago i bought an HifiMan He-500 for its known bass impact (I've had all top Sennheisers in 40 years, last one was HD600). I amplified HifiMan HE-500 with Emotiva 50+50w, the bass impact was very good but the headphone lacked in all other sectors (bass quality and clarity, highs extension, sensitivity, headstage, wearability).
  
 Not satisfied from HE500 (bass included) and having owned only Sennheisers for 40 years, I decided to give a chance to the HD800, though many people told it was lacking bass and so was not good for my genres and that it was for classical-lyrical music (not my genre).
  
 From the first moment i listened to HD800 (attached to an old vintage Nikko integrated amp, so nothing special) I was really (really!) impressed from this headphone, particularly for the clarity and extension of bass (totally unexpected) and highs quality and extension.
  
 4 weeks after, I bought the Sennheiser HDVA600 amp and the Sennheiser balanced headphone cable. From that moment on, the HE500 was left alone, then i sold it after some months with no regrets. Surely the HE500 impact was more than the hd800 (but not that much), but to me the HD800 bass is fantastic, is right and well amalgamated with other frequencies. You can easily follow bass riff, impossibile with the other headphones I've had.
  
 This is just my experience regarding HD800 bass, a surprise for me and I love it everyday more, toghether with all the other HD800 characteristics. I love listening Giorgio Moroder (70-80's) particularly with this headphone, that's all said.
  
 It's the first headphone for which i don't feel the need of an external equalizer and it's the first headphone in 40 years (Sennheisers included) that makes me difficult to stop listening sessions, this is the only issue I found with HD800 (seriously).


----------



## koiloco

^
 I personally prefer HE-500's bass over HD800's.  Overall, HE500 offers a different sound signature.  
 There're not many headphones that could technically compare with HD800 but when it comes to personal preference and listening taste, HD800 might not be everyone's cup of tea.


----------



## pearljam50000

If i want the same SQ and level of details that the HD800 has , in speakers, how much would they cost?


----------



## fpsoft1

koiloco said:


> ^
> I personally prefer HE-500's bass over HD800's.  Overall, HE500 offers a different sound signature.
> There're not many headphones that could technically compare with HD800 but when it comes to personal preference and listening taste, HD800 might not be everyone's cup of tea.


 
 Yes, I have some friends which have sold the HD800 and have kept the hifiman (he500 or he6), note that in one case the hd800 sold was amplified with Woo Audio Wa5 with B300 tubes. The person to which i sold the He500 prefers that to the HD800 (he owns both amongst others).
  
 I've seen that you amplify the He500 with Emotiva Mini x-a100, just like i did. I found it too harsh in highs, that's one of the reasons i sold the setup.


----------



## whirlwind

Should have my Draug 2 for my HD800 , next week.
  
 Can't wait to give it a listen.


----------



## RUMAY408

whirlwind said:


> Should have my Draug 2 for my HD800 , next week.
> 
> Can't wait to give it a listen.


 

 I've been happy with mine


----------



## Mortalcoil

justin_time said:


> Perljam50000,
> 
> Sorry I just saw the (not-at-all stupid) question and may be too late to help.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


kothganesh said:


> Must be Friday. TGIF


 
  
  
 FWIW and on a related note I believe the Sub of the day is Tuna.


----------



## GardenVariety

pearljam50000 said:


> If i want the same SQ and level of details that the HD800 has , in speakers, how much would they cost?


 

 It's not just a matter of which speaker but also which amp and room treatments. To get that linear of a room response is no small feat.


----------



## atistatic

When i did read is overpriced, i told for my self ok ... until i read "VMODA is better than this", what is wrong with people ? http://imageshack.com/a/img540/4154/CHtGL1.jpg
  


koiloco said:


> ^
> I personally prefer HE-500's bass over HD800's.  Overall, HE500 offers a different sound signature.
> There're not many headphones that could technically compare with HD800 but when it comes to personal preference and listening taste, HD800 might not be everyone's cup of tea.


 
 If you read a thread called "Battle of Flagships 58+ headphones review" David Mahller the autor of dat thread, he say that the HD800 headphones is "King of Neutrality" cuz the HD800 change radically the sound signature depending of the amplifier.


----------



## plonter

Am I the only one that found HD800's sound resemble to Grado?   Their brightness,the tight and punchy bass,the speed and attack.   The main difference is probably in the mids, they are not as farward as the Grado mids,and the bass is probably more stable and balanced.
 leaving soundstage and imaging aside ofcourse.


----------



## Priidik

Sone exceptional Grados perhaps.


----------



## Priidik

pearljam50000 said:


> If i want the same SQ and level of details that the HD800 has , in speakers, how much would they cost?


 
 That sentence is like from a broken record in this thread. Scroll back some.


----------



## pearljam50000

That guy was talking about the 009 being as good as 50k$ speakers, so I was wondering the same about the HD800.
BTW I don't think any Grado model touches the the HD800, but I haven't heard the PS1000 so I may be wrong.


priidik said:


> That sentence is like from a broken record in this thread. Scroll back some.


----------



## Sorrodje

I think the Speakers vs headphone debate is a nonsense. Let's keep the thread away from this nonsense please


----------



## Priidik

pearljam50000 said:


> That guy was talking about the 009 being as good as 50k$ speakers, so I was wondering the same about the HD800.
> BTW I don't think any Grado model touches the the HD800, but I haven't heard the PS1000 so I may be wrong.


 
  
   There are qualities inherent to hp-s that speakers can't do and vice versa. Like phase coherency is better with hp-s because of their single driver. Where as single driver speakers never cover full freq range adequately. Speakers offer real soundstage unlike hp-s, which do headstage. And the fr problems in HD800 are mainly caused by the transducer being too close to the ear as is the case with all hp-s.
  
  Can't put a price tag to taste. Some people just like hp-s better than speakers.


----------



## elvergun

plonter said:


> Am I the only one that found HD800's sound resemble to Grado?


 
  
 I think you might be the only one.
  
 I've owned the SR325 and all the models bellow and I don't think they sound very similar to the HD800.  Perhaps the higher Grados do???


----------



## Acapella11

whirlwind said:


> Should have my Draug 2 for my HD800 , next week.
> 
> Can't wait to give it a listen.


 
  
 Great! Just give the cable 20 - 30 h to settle, you won't regret a penny.


----------



## potkettleblack

*I owe all of you an apology. *
  
  
 A couple of months ago I came in here to give my opinion on the HD800's and it was met with ill-concealed hatred and ultimately my comments being deleted.
  
  
 The first part of my review was mostly praising them, for their soundstage/imaging, and how amazing they were with classical music. The second part consisted of me basically s****** all over them; their inability to sound good with any other genre, and their tendency to spotlight treble and sibilance.
  
 Over the last few months I have bought the 650's, and sold my Grado ps500's in exchange for the HD700's. I've spent the last 2 weeks getting used to 700's' spiky treble response and (imo) amazing bass, imaging and soundstage. They have become to most exciting headphone I have ever owned and used. I look forward to using them everyday. A feeling I have never had with any kind of audio or entertainment equipment.
  
 Today I went to audition the HD800's (for a third time). 
  
 I wen't - macbook, hd700's and o2 in hand - armed with over a hundred of the highest quality audio files I could download. Binaural, orchestral, acoustic, EDM, rock, classical, pop. You name it, I had it.
  
 After the first two auditions of the HD800 I left the shop thinking  ''wow, they are amazing - but are way too bright for me, and ps500's are half the price!''
  
 I was wrong.
  
 I was so wrong it makes me sick. (Intentional dramatics).
  
 I could continue writing about my experience but I won't. You all own a pair of these so you know (on any given day) what these sound like, and how good they are.
  
 It took me 3 auditions to finally get the HD700's. It won't take me 4 to get the HD800's.
  
 I 've read many times how headphones should NEVER be judged on one listen, and how placebo and psychosomatics can play a huge part in audio. This is something I should have paid attention to - and thats to my shame.
  
 I want to apologise to all those I lashed out at and all of the ignorant statements I made. I don't think I was rude. I don't think anybody matched my arguments very well, and I don't think my opinion was given much respect, especially my thoughts getting deleted by admins. (You'd think they'd be made of sterner stuff).
  
 But that means nothing now.. Because, at the very heart of it, I was wrong.
  
 So, fellow HD800 owners -
  
  
  
  

  
  
 (please quote - or do whatever you have to do to this comment so others see it please)
  
 Regards,
  
  
 Lee.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am giving the HD800's a workout with the new Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson. What a great combination!
  

 Cables are the new Toxic Cables 22ga Silver Widows.


----------



## Dopaminer

longbowbbs said:


> I am giving the HD800's a workout with the new Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson. What a great combination!
> 
> 
> Cables are the new Toxic Cables 22ga Silver Widows.


 
  
 That amp has me droooooooling.   I thinki it`s the same Cavalli Mr. Speakers was demo-ing the Alphadog Primes on, at the Tokyo show last autumn.  Want/Need . . . .


----------



## longbowbbs

dopaminer said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I am giving the HD800's a workout with the new Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson. What a great combination!
> ...


 
 This is a pre-production unit. Dan usually shows with the Cavalli Audio Liquid Glass. That is the tube rollers dream amp. This is a hybrid amp using a single 6922. Retail units should be available by Early March of 2015. Either amp will treat the HD800's to a sweet ride!


----------



## AlanHell

I have stopped my headif gear hunt after I got my HDVD800 system.
 Now I am trying to use the same amount of money to construct a speaker system.
 Today I might end up picking an amp between sony TA-1AES and Regel H80 to pair with my KEF LS50.
  
 Then we can see how different or similar speaker and headphone with the same price range are sound.
 Up till that point, my headphone collections still wins the battle without question.


----------



## ubs28

priidik said:


> There are qualities inherent to hp-s that speakers can't do and vice versa. Like phase coherency is better with hp-s because of their single driver. Where as single driver speakers never cover full freq range adequately. Speakers offer real soundstage unlike hp-s, which do headstage.* And the fr problems in HD800 are mainly caused by the transducer being too close to the ear as is the case with all hp-s.*
> 
> Can't put a price tag to taste. Some people just like hp-s better than speakers.


 
  
 The problem is the recordings themselves, not the HD800. The songs you hear on the radio are hyped and heavily compressed. Neutral speakers like the Adam A7 will sound bright too on bad recordings, because that's how those songs are engineered for some strange reason.


----------



## whirlwind

acapella11 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Should have my Draug 2 for my HD800 , next week.
> ...


 
 Thanks for that info.....i am really looking forward to it.


----------



## icebear

alanhell said:


> I have stopped my headif gear hunt after I got my HDVD800 system.
> Now I am trying to use the same amount of money to construct a speaker system.
> Today I might end up picking an amp between sony TA-1AES and R [H?]egel H80 to pair with my KEF LS50.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm not sure about the sensitivity of the KEF but if they don't require a lot of power then take a look at First Watt.
 The M2 was still available from Reno Hifi for $1.5k a couple of weeks ago, so quite a bit less than the H80.
  
 Here my personal experience with the M2 that transformed my Sonus Faber Cremonas.
 I also was rock solid that a speaker could never even come close to the detail retrieval of the HD800.
 The M2 showed what a good amp can do...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/14940#post_11024047


----------



## kazsud

koiloco said:


> ^
> I personally prefer HE-500's bass over HD800's.  Overall, HE500 offers a different sound signature.
> There're not many headphones that could technically compare with HD800 but when it comes to personal preference and listening taste, HD800 might not be everyone's cup of tea.




The HE500 sound linear compared to the HD800 to me.


----------



## kapanak

I think I posted my question in the wrong place. I shall repost it here if that's okay.
  
 Alright, so I'm nowhere new to Headphones or High Fidelity audio.
  
 Here's my current dilemma: 
  
 I owned a 97XX serial number HD800 from 2009 to 2012, and I used it in conjunction with a Violectric V100 and then V181 for amp, and a Naim DAC.
  
 Unfortunately, all of that along with about 15K worth of audio equipment was sold due to a financial crisis in my life near the end of 2012 (and my car and a majority of my camera collection as well as my Canon professional kit lol ...)
  
 So fast forward to December 2014, and I see the HD800 brand new from a reputable, authorized dealer for only $1200. Of course I bought it since I was in better financial situation. Serial 34XXX.
  
 So far, I have used it with my Asus Maximus VII Formula on-board sound card (Cirrus Logic CS4398 DAC/Texas Instruments LM4562 Amp/Realtek drivers), my Audioengine D3, and then my Audioengine D1. I also have the Bottlehead Crack w/ Speedball that is used as the amp with the Audioengine D1. Unfortunately, that's all the audio source equipment I posses at this time.
  
 Perhaps my memory is skewed, but I remember the HD800 sounding quite a bit better on my old setup.
  
 I can't afford that setup anymore. For me, I know the HD800 sounds great with Violectric V281, Auralic Taurus MKII or Schiit Ragnarok, along with a Auralic Vega DAC, and for me that's considered end-game. Unfortunately, those are out of my budget for the foreseeable future.
  
 So, I turn to you, my fellow HF'ers. Please recommend me something within a budget of under $1000 that's either one DAC and one Amp under that budget, or a combo, that will pair well with my HD800. I really wish to hear what I used to hear. And I'm pretty darn young, so it's not hearing loss lol ...


----------



## MattTCG

kapanak said:


> I think I posted my question in the wrong place. I shall repost it here if that's okay.
> 
> Alright, so I'm nowhere new to Headphones or High Fidelity audio.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you are looking for a budget amp that will pair well with the hd800, please consider:
  
 $100: Schiit Vali-really nice detail with a hint of tube wetness. Early models were prone to ringing when the amp or desk was taped too hard.
  
 $350: Schiit Valhalla 2 IMO this amp is very tough to beat south of a grand. Allows the beauty and strengths to come through effortlessly. Stock tubes are actually very nice and I never felt the need to upgrade them. A versatile amp that can drive other hp's, even some planar mags, quite well.
  
 Also at this price point the Crack was a good amp when the speedball kit was installed. The Crack will "color" the hd800 more and give it a more organic and warmer tonality. But...you'll loose some speed and treble is a little smoothed over for my taste. Still a good option for DIY'ers.
  
 These are the amps that I've owned and had personal experience pairing with the hd800


----------



## Zoom25

kapanak said:


> I think I posted my question in the wrong place. I shall repost it here if that's okay.
> 
> Alright, so I'm nowhere new to Headphones or High Fidelity audio.
> 
> ...


 

 Dangerous Music Source. I've been using it with HD800 for a long time and never have I gotten fatigued with it. The DAC and pre-amp capabilities are excellent. The headphone amp is surprisingly powerful as well. Out of all the high end headphones I've tried on it (HE-500, LCD-2, LCD-3, HE-6, T1, D2000, DT990, HE-400 etc) the HD800 pairs with it the best. Perfectly transparent, quick deep bass with decent impact. Never shrill in the treble but dark blackground. Completely dead silent on all inputs and outputs. If you can try it personally, I'd highly recommend it.


----------



## thomascrown

Somewhere I read that the asgard 2 is considered a v200 killer, now I don't know how true it is but you could consider it as an option... When I had the hd650 I was surprised by the qualities of the vali compared to my hdva600, and that's supposed to be the hd800 amp. I would give them a try...I forgot the dac: I'm happy with my hrt streamer hd, I don't see why I shouldn't recommend it.


----------



## longbowbbs

HD800's with Nordost Heimdall 2 cables through the new Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson.
  
 It is a good day for tunes!


----------



## Mach3

potkettleblack said:


> *I owe all of you an apology. *
> 
> 
> A couple of months ago I came in here to give my opinion on the HD800's and it was met with ill-concealed hatred and ultimately my comments being deleted.
> ...


 
  
 Funny how I notice quite a few people in your boat. Knocks the HD800 on first few impression. Then, bammm.... I see HD800 in their headphone collection LOL
 I had a friend declared he was saving up for the LCD3 because the HD800 wasn't his cup of tea (too bright). So I ask him if you wanted to compared my LCD3 and HD800 side by side.
 Next minute, he told me "you just might have saved me $800 bucks" LOL.


----------



## kapanak

longbowbbs said:


> HD800's with Nordost Heimdall 2 cables through the new Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson.
> 
> It is a good day for tunes!


 

 How's the Nordost cables? I am very interested in this as a long term upgrade, not for the sound quality, but rather for the unwieldiness of the stock cable. Is the Nordost one less heavy and easier to manage?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

potkettleblack said:


> *I owe all of you an apology. *
> 
> 
> A couple of months ago I came in here to give my opinion on the HD800's and it was met with ill-concealed hatred and ultimately my comments being deleted.
> ...


 
  
 Haha i think this happened to a lot of us...The first several times I heard them i also didn't enjoy them at all. You can go back and read what i wrote about them in 2010 and it wasn't very nice. But like many of us, I finally came around after a few extended listening sessions...
  
  


kapanak said:


> I think I posted my question in the wrong place. I shall repost it here if that's okay.
> 
> Alright, so I'm nowhere new to Headphones or High Fidelity audio.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Used Gungnir and a Valhalla 2...not that I'm biased towards this combo or anything  I really really fell in love with the Gungnir the first time I heard it, something about the intensity it brings just does it for me, and then the Valhalla 2 is well known as a superbly high value amp, specially for high impedance cans like the HD800s


----------



## kapanak

matttcg said:


> If you are looking for a budget amp that will pair well with the hd800, please consider:
> 
> $100: Schiit Vali-really nice detail with a hint of tube wetness. Early models were prone to ringing when the amp or desk was taped too hard.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you!  I shall listen to the Valhalla 2 at my local headphones shop (headphonebar.com). I thought Schiit only sold direct, eh? But Headphone Bar carries the Valhalla 2 and a few other Schiit products. Good for me 
  


zoom25 said:


> Dangerous Music Source. I've been using it with HD800 for a long time and never have I gotten fatigued with it. The DAC and pre-amp capabilities are excellent. The headphone amp is surprisingly powerful as well. Out of all the high end headphones I've tried on it (HE-500, LCD-2, LCD-3, HE-6, T1, D2000, DT990, HE-400 etc) the HD800 pairs with it the best. Perfectly transparent, quick deep bass with decent impact. Never shrill in the treble but dark blackground. Completely dead silent on all inputs and outputs. If you can try it personally, I'd highly recommend it.


 
 A highly interesting option, and one I had only heard about in passing before. I shall look into it, and possibly audition it if I can. Thank you 
  


thomascrown said:


> Somewhere I read that the asgard 2 is considered a v200 killer, now I don't know how true it is but you could consider it as an option... When I had the hd650 I was surprised by the qualities of the vali compared to my hdva600, and that's supposed to be the hd800 amp. I would give them a try...I forgot the dac: I'm happy with my hrt streamer hd, I don't see why I shouldn't recommend it.


 
 Thank you! I have heard Asgard 2, and it definitely is not a V200 killer, not even a V181 killer, but it is a VERY good amp, especially for its price.
 The Sennheiser's own amp and amp/DAC combo are out of my price range, and aren't very positively received, but I shall keep it in mind for the future.
  


souprknowva said:


> Haha i think this happened to a lot of us...The first several times I heard them i also didn't enjoy them at all. You can go back and read what i wrote about them in 2010 and it wasn't very nice. But like many of us, I finally came around after a few extended listening sessions...
> 
> 
> 
> Used Gungnir and a Valhalla 2...not that I'm biased towards this combo or anything  I really really fell in love with the Gungnir the first time I heard it, something about the intensity it brings just does it for me, and then the Valhalla 2 is well known as a superbly high value amp, specially for high impedance cans like the HD800s


 
 Another Valhalla 2 recommendation. I must check this out ASAP  Thank you! With regards to Gungnir, I'd probably would wait and go for a fully balanced system with Ragnarok and Yggdrasil in the future, as right now I consider that one of my end-game options 
  
 Anybody else have any other recommendations? I think I might be set on Valhalla 2 as the amp for now, but that's pending me actually trying it. However, I do need a DAC. Anybody own or have heard the Resonessence Concero HP or Concero HD?


----------



## guido

another recommendation for a great DAC/amp that is simply magical with the HD800 [only in balanced mode] is thew B.M.C. Puredac ...stunning!


----------



## citraian

kapanak said:


> I think I posted my question in the wrong place. I shall repost it here if that's okay.
> 
> Alright, so I'm nowhere new to Headphones or High Fidelity audio.
> 
> ...



If you want something cheap you can try the iFi iDSD micro. Listen to it if you get the chance, you might be surprised.


----------



## longbowbbs

kapanak said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > HD800's with Nordost Heimdall 2 cables through the new Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson.
> ...


 
 Very nice cables. Hard to tangle too. That is a big plus.


----------



## pearljam50000

I once let my mom try the HD800: she said:"it sounds 3D, the sound comes from everywhere" lol


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> I once let my mom try the HD800: she said:"it sounds 3D, the sound comes from everywhere" lol


 

 My mom stopped trusting me with trying out headphones after getting her to try out my HE-500, LCD-2 and LCD-3. She found them too heavy and further told me to return them as well or I'd break my neck LOL. My dad on the other hand doesn't care one bit. Give him Pink Floyd and you won't hear from him for a few hours.


----------



## thomascrown

kapanak said:


> Thank you! I have heard Asgard 2, and it definitely is not a V200 killer, not even a V181 killer, but it is a VERY good amp, especially for its price.
> The Sennheiser's own amp and amp/DAC combo are out of my price range, and aren't very positively received, but I shall keep it in mind for the future.


 
 Hi, 
 I was actually suggesting the small Vali as solution, not the senn amp (and anyway imo is not that bad).


----------



## 62ohm

I personally preferred the Senn amp when I auditioned it alongside V200 and BHA-1 with the HD800.


----------



## atistatic

mach3 said:


> Funny how I notice quite a few people in your boat. Knocks the HD800 on first few impression. Then, bammm.... I see HD800 in their headphone collection LOL
> I had a friend declared he was saving up for the LCD3 because the HD800 wasn't his cup of tea (too bright). So I ask him if you wanted to compared my LCD3 and HD800 side by side.
> Next minute, he told me "you just might have saved me $800 bucks" LOL.


 
 That cuz hd 800 can be bright or dark depending on the setup ... i tried dat when i did read the david mahller 58+ headphones review, and he is right.


----------



## potkettleblack

Just ordered and put a deposit on my HD800's for the 27th of this month (payday)
  
 I can't tell you how excited I am.
  
 I got into this hobby a year go (next month) and have fast tracked myself ever since - and had a SHED load of fun whilst doing it.
  
 Momentum - bought and kept (zero intention to return/sell)
 Bowers and Wilkins  p7 - returned
 Grado rs2i - returned
 Grado rs1i - returned
 Ps500e's - sold
 HD650'S - bought and kept (zero intention to return/sell)
 HD700's - bought and kept (zero intention to return/sell)
 HD800's - plan to keep, make love to, go for country walks with, introduce the parents to, buy flowers for, get a tattoo of on my forearm.


----------



## pearljam50000

Please post a review when you get them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Quote:


potkettleblack said:


> Just ordered and put a deposit on my HD800's for the 27th of this month (payday)
> 
> I can't tell you how excited I am.
> 
> ...


----------



## rgs9200m

kapanak said:


> So, I turn to you, my fellow HF'ers. Please recommend me something within a budget of under $1000 that's either one DAC and one Amp under that budget, or a combo, that will pair well with my HD800. I really wish to hear what I used to hear. And I'm pretty darn young, so it's not hearing loss lol ...


 
 Someone is selling a Ray Samuels Raptor on headfi today for $850. My HD800 sounds very nice with my B52, and the Raptor is related to it. And, you can do some inexpensive tube rolling to tune the sound, which is a good way to "upgrade" or adjust things on a limited budget.
 And it's used, so you won't take a big depreciation hit if it doesn't work out. And Ray is great to deal with, as he has been for me, and I never had a problem with his amps, they have been rock-solid reliable.


----------



## Hal X

I love these headphones so much! they get me really involved in music


----------



## zilch0md

^ I heared juh!


----------



## whirlwind

I contacted Trevor at Norne audio about the wait time on a Draug 2 on friday.
  
 He e-mailed me back saying he had a very similar cable to the one i wanted that was made wrong for another customer.
  
 He made me a deal on it that i could not refuse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I paid for it Saturday morning and when i got home from work today....guess what.  
  
  

  
  
 Some of the best service....ever


----------



## MannerPylon

And here I am a week and a half into my Draug 2 wait.... lucky you are. Holding out for that black and grey and a balanced connector


----------



## pearljam50000

Is there any chance they will go back to the original price of 1250$? or was it 1200$? Can't remember.


----------



## Blackmore

Very possible.
  
 Orig price EU is EUR 1199 and USD 1499 in US
  
 Quote:


pearljam50000 said:


> Is there any chance they will go back to the original price of 1250$? or was it 1200$? Can't remember.


----------



## dxanex

rgs9200m said:


> Someone is selling a Ray Samuels Raptor on headfi today for $850. My HD800 sounds very nice with my B52, and the Raptor is related to it. And, you can do some inexpensive tube rolling to tune the sound, which is a good way to "upgrade" or adjust things on a limited budget.
> And it's used, so you won't take a big depreciation hit if it doesn't work out. And Ray is great to deal with, as he has been for me, and I never had a problem with his amps, they have been rock-solid reliable.


 

 The second time I ever heard the HD 800 was on Ray's B52 at a meet and it was a total epiphany...I heard just how amazing the HD 800 can truly be. Also Ray is a super nice guy...he took my wife and I, and a bunch of other people out to dinner after the meet. His amps are solid and sound great.


----------



## MickeyVee

Congrats..
 Wow.. very close to my list.. HD600, HD650, HD700, HE400, HE500, and while I've had my HD800 looking for a compliment the PS500, RS1i, HE560, and Momentum over-ear .. all gone and kept the HD800 and HE400i as a fun compliment and transportable. (kept the vModa XS for my wife to use)
 Enjoy the HD800!!


potkettleblack said:


> Just ordered and put a deposit on my HD800's for the 27th of this month (payday)


----------



## pearljam50000

When you own the HD800, I don't see a point in owning any other headphone (Except maybe AKG K1000 and Stax 009)
So I understand why you sold them all ^_^


----------



## kugino

pearljam50000 said:


> When you own the HD800, I don't see a point in owning any other headphone (Except maybe AKG K1000 and Stax 009)
> So I understand why you sold them all ^_^


 

 mmm, i used to own the k1000. aside from the immense soundstage, the k1000 wasn't THAT great. it certainly lives in headphone lore because of its quirky design, bada$$ difficulty to drive, and relative scarcity. very good headphones, no doubt, but i think the hd800 is just as good (assuming both are driven well with good sources). and, i find that i prefer the th900 to the hd800 for most genres of music. that's not to say that it's a "better" headphone, just that it's more enjoyable to me (and in some ways, is better, too).
  
 but i get the gist of your point - the hd800 are simply terrific.


----------



## deuter

Anyone want to sell me a pair ?


----------



## EddieE

kugino said:


> mmm, i used to own the k1000. aside from the immense soundstage, the k1000 wasn't THAT great. it certainly lives in headphone lore because of its quirky design, bada$$ difficulty to drive, and relative scarcity. very good headphones, no doubt, but i think the hd800 is just as good (assuming both are driven well with good sources). and, i find that i prefer the th900 to the hd800 for most genres of music. that's not to say that it's a "better" headphone, just that it's more enjoyable to me (and in some ways, is better, too).
> 
> but i get the gist of your point - the hd800 are simply terrific.


 
  
 I'm not a huge fan of the HD800 and I still agree it is vastly, vastly better than the K1000. 
  
 I would like someone to revisit the idea of the K1000 with good drivers. It's presentation is unique and engaging but the actual sound quality is pretty grainy and dull.


----------



## Chodi

deuter said:


> Anyone want to sell me a pair ?


 
 One stop shopping in the items for sale right here on the forum. If you look long enough you will find almost anything.


----------



## Blackmore

?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





?
  
 Quote:


eddiee said:


> I'm not a huge fan of the HD800 and I still agree it is vastly, vastly better than the K1000.
> 
> I would like someone to revisit the idea of the K1000 with good drivers. It's presentation is unique and engaging but the actual sound quality is pretty grainy and dull.


----------



## Eee Pee

pearljam50000 said:


> When you own the HD800, I don't see a point in owning any other headphone




I do and it's called enjoyment. And the 800s I have get used the least because I enjoy them less. My other choices are half the price or less. Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## pearljam50000

eee pee said:


> I do and it's called enjoyment. And the 800s I have get used the least because I enjoy them less. My other choices are half the price or less. Different strokes for different folks.


 
 If you don't enjoy the HD800, why do you keep them?


----------



## Eee Pee

Cause they're Senn HD 800s...  A reference in some regard.  
  
 I already bought em, so they stay around as a point of reference so I can try to relate to what others are talking about, I guess.
  
 I like em, just not as my daily user.


----------



## Dopaminer

I have to post this - some Japanese guy`s blog.  It shows exactly where to chop the stock Senn singel-ended 1/4 inch plug, so that you can keep the factory rubber grommet-thing on the cable, and then cleanly solder on an XLR4.  
  
 I love this kinda ****.  
  
 http://designideas.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2013/09/hd800-31fc.html


----------



## potkettleblack

eee pee said:


> I do and it's called enjoyment. And the 800s I have get used the least because I enjoy them less. My other choices are half the price or less. Different strokes for different folks.


 

 Don't you think he meant enjoyment as well. What a strange way to start a sentence. Very uppity and entitled.
  
 If you live by the ''different strokes for different folks'' mentality, maybe you should not out yourself as someone determined to prove others wrong.


----------



## Mach3

I have been advised to upgrade to the SR-009 as the only path from the HD-800. For me though, I think it pointless. Let me explain my reason for this opinion.
 A proper SR-009 setup generally cost about 12k and up when you factor in the SR-009, AMP, DAC. For that amount I rather, own a variety top of the line (TOTL) AMP, Dac and many different TOTL headphone like HD-800, HE-6, LCD3, AK812, TH900 & T1. Music taste often differ due to mood swings and music genre, I don't feel that the SR-009 is great at cover all genre of music better than 6 of the top tier headphones.
  
 Unless you're one of the rare few with huge disposable income like the legend David Mahler, who gave us an insight to the world of elite head gear. I cheer to you.


----------



## johnjen

dopaminer said:


> I have to post this - some Japanese guy`s blog.  It shows exactly where to chop the stock Senn singel-ended 1/4 inch plug, so that you can keep the factory rubber grommet-thing on the cable, and then cleanly solder on an XLR4.
> 
> I love this kinda ****.
> 
> http://designideas.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2013/09/hd800-31fc.html


 
 As a counterpoint to this particular approach…
  
 A ways back someone (I don't remember who), suggested that there was a SQ improvement when he cut the stock cable roughly in half and re-terminated it.
 This seems like an 'easy' and inexpensive mod to try, that is if you're a DIY'r at heart.
  
 JJ


----------



## atistatic

mach3 said:


> I have been advised to upgrade to the SR-009 as the only path from the HD-800. For me though, I think it pointless. Let me explain my reason for this opinion.
> A proper SR-009 setup generally cost about 12k and up when you factor in the SR-009, AMP, DAC. For that amount I rather, own a variety top of the line (TOTL) AMP, Dac and many different TOTL headphone like HD-800, HE-6, LCD3, AK812, TH900 & T1. Music taste often differ due to mood swings and music genre, I don't feel that the SR-009 is great at cover all genre of music better than 6 of the top tier headphones.
> 
> Unless you're one of the rare few with huge disposable income like the legend David Mahler, who gave us an insight to the world of elite head gear. I cheer to you.


 
 i think ... that the BHSE and the sr-009 isn't astronomical summary, but the Dac that David Mahler have it is, with the full config cost around of 60k dollars ... and isn't not a joke spend 60k for a single DAC, i mean 60k isn't a simple car price, it's a luxury cars price, like BMW M3, Lexus RC F, etc...


----------



## paradoxper

Eh. HD800, EC amp, Yggdrasil. SR-009, KG amp, Yggdrasil. It's an even split. Spend time with the gears and go with what your ears like best.
  
 Or maybe there needs to be a Leviathan, DIY T2 shootout.


----------



## Eee Pee

potkettleblack said:


> Don't you think he meant enjoyment as well. What a strange way to start a sentence. Very uppity and entitled.
> 
> If you live by the ''different strokes for different folks'' mentality, maybe you should not out yourself as someone determined to prove others wrong.


 
  
 And what a strange reaction... 
  
 I don't care for the HD 800's sound as my daily use headphone, what's the big deal?


----------



## potkettleblack

eee pee said:


> And what a strange reaction...
> 
> I don't care for the HD 800's sound as my daily use headphone, what's the big deal?


 

 Nice quick edit.
  
 Please don't over-simplify what your intentions were mate, it's not gonna rinse with me.
  
 There is no big deal - but you already knew that.


----------



## koiloco

^
Chill pill dude. Eee Pee was being honest. I personally appreciate that.


----------



## Eee Pee

Trying not to be rude.  
  
 All good, mate, don't care really, as they're just headphones.  I have no intentions, as there's nothing to prove.
  
 Now, if you'll pardon me, I have to go flip my record...


----------



## RUMAY408

atistatic said:


> i think ... that the BHSE and the sr-009 isn't astronomical summary, but the Dac that David Mahler have it is, with the full config cost around of 60k dollars ... and isn't not a joke spend 60k for a single DAC, i mean 60k isn't a simple car price, it's a luxury cars price, like BMW M3, Lexus RC F, etc...


 

 The DAC is 42K but the total setup with BHSE 6K + power conditioners and interconnects etc. + 009/charger = 60K+
  
 It's all about the sound, high end audio sure isn't cheap, still compare that end game HP setup to a high end TT 50K-250K
  
 HP's are a bargain


----------



## akhyar

^ indeed.
Imagine those full McIntosh gears with Magico loudspeakers, Nordost cables and not forgetting room treatment.


----------



## icebear

Just putting together a high price system because having the dough is one thing.
 Combining components that play music together is another 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 ps: general statement no ref to DM's set up, which I don't know...


----------



## Mach3

atistatic said:


> i think ... that the BHSE and the sr-009 isn't astronomical summary, but the Dac that David Mahler have it is, with the full config cost around of 60k dollars ... and isn't not a joke spend 60k for a single DAC, i mean 60k isn't a simple car price, it's a luxury cars price, like BMW M3, Lexus RC F, etc...


 
  
 I wondered if David heard of the da vinci dac (It's like 70k AUD  about $55k plus USD) he would change his mind on the MSB dac he owns?


----------



## Dopaminer

Stop dreaming people: Flights to Japan are cheap, and the yen is low.  Here`s a nice used 009 for 2500$:  
  
 http://www.fujiya-avic.jp/products/detail74873.html
  
New they`re `only` $3k:
  
 http://www.e-earphone.jp/shop/shopdetail.html?brandcode=002063000007&search=sr-009&sort=brandname
  
 Still I prefer the 007 to the 009, and the 007 isn`t better than my HD800, to my ears, just different.


----------



## MickeyVee

Another opinion.. I love the HD800 for daily use from Frank Sinatra, Patricia Barber, Dire Straits to Avicii, Deadmou5 and everything in between. But.. I have found the front end that really knocks my socks off.
  
 Quote:


eee pee said:


> I don't care for the HD 800's sound as my daily use headphone, what's the big deal?


----------



## atistatic

mach3 said:


> I wondered if David heard of the da vinci dac (It's like 70k AUD  about $55k plus USD) he would change his mind on the MSB dac he owns?


 
 He told me once that he tried many dacs, but the MSB Tech Diamond IV was best dac that heard him. But i don't know if he tried "Da Vinci DAC"


----------



## Mach3

atistatic said:


> He told me once that he tried many dacs, but the MSB Tech Diamond IV was best dac that heard him. But i don't know if he tried "Da Vinci DAC"


 
  
 When your dac cost that much, you sure hope so. His dac cost more than my car and I don't drive a bomb either.


----------



## mikemercer

akhyar said:


> ^ indeed.
> Imagine those full McIntosh gears with Magico loudspeakers, Nordost cables and not forgetting room treatment.


 
 I'm with you there!!
 The room should be the thing you tune FIRST when you have gear like that.
  
 You'd be disgusted by some of the supposed "most-respected" high end audio reviewers home set-ups, and how they just cram a TON of expensive gear into a lil' room and claim it's the voice of God - SO sorry to be off-topic there...
  
I've always dug my HD800s, but only recently have I began to truly appreciate them - and am beginning to love their sonic attributes.
Believe it or not, for me, the reason I wasn't so ga-ga before was that I found them to have incredible out-of-your-head sound-staging, and their transient speed and attack is lightning fast, but, for lack of a better description, they didn't seem to have much soul in their musical presentation. They sounded like terrific "hi-fi" but didn't get me in the gut.
  
However, using Double Helix Cables Comp4 Extreme on my HD800s transformed those observations above, especially using the following associated gear:
  
MacBook Pro/Amarra as source
McIntosh D100 DAC
ALO Studio Six amp
All Nordost Heimdall2 signal cables (power and interconnects) 
Double Helix Comp4 Extreme  for the HD800s
  
+ my VPI Traveler turntable w/ Gingko Audio Cloud 9T + Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge
Unison Research Simply Phono tube stage
Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold 
SAME cabling combo as above (the DHC Extreme has an adapter set)
  
One of my fave sonic acid test tracks is Radiohead's "Everything in its Right Place" off _Kid A_ - for these new impressions I used the 7" vinyl on my VPI,
and the Deluxe Series digital in Amarra:
  
Before my recent cable change on the 800s - this track sounded detailed and dimensional, but lacked serious warmth (which those synths have in spades)
and having seem them live at least 5 or 6 times - Yorkes vocals also sounded a bit thin - and he's got that unique timbre as it is, which can get pretty thin naturally - but it just seemed like I was missing something - and I really wanted to experience this song on the 800s and have it blow me away like my Audeze LCD-3 & 2F or my main two-channel in-room system.
  
After trying the 800s with my new DHC cable (listed above) and the systems listed above (so, changing only ONE variable) the sonic character of the track changed completely!
There was far more texture in the cascading synths, and I could here the modulations. Also - the separation, which, IMO, the HD800s can do (at times) better than almost any other cans I've experienced - was sublimely rendered. I could pick out each instrument, and that's no easy feat for this Radiohead track! The music just glistened, and I must've hit repeat at least 10 times the first time I tried them w/ the DHC Comp4 Extreme!!!! Yorkes vocals were also full-bodied and way more realistic!
  
Of course, this happened RIGHT BEFORE CES!! damn...
  
So after I bang out my CES reports I'm going to be diving into some serious listening sessions with my 800s and report back ASAP!


----------



## Blackmore

Mike, finished cable will be around USD 900, or I am looking at wrong one?
  
 THX


----------



## longbowbbs

mikemercer said:


> akhyar said:
> 
> 
> > ^ indeed.
> ...


 
 Welcome to the party Michael! HD800's and Audeze are like two favorite flavors of ice cream. What do you want today?


----------



## akhyar

mikemercer said:


> ....... However, using Double Helix Cables Comp4 Extreme on my HD800s transformed those observations above, especially using the following associated gear:
> 
> MacBook Pro/Amarra as source
> McIntosh D100 DAC
> ...


 
  
 Mike,
 Have you ever tried the Nordost Heimdall2 headphone cable for HD800?
 If yes, which you prefer vs the DHC?
  
 No chance for me to audition the DHC over here but the local dealer for Nordost might be able to t-loan me the cable


----------



## Zoom25

Back in the day I had these two cable for my Audezes: Headphone Lounge (some silver stuff) and Norse Audio (copper - Norse 4 conductor nrs-up-occ).
  
  
  

  
  
 Headphone Lounge cable was balanced so I used that most of the time with speaker amps. I occasionally tried the Norse cable with a 3.5mm plug on the O2. Didn't really get a fair evaluation on my own gear for an extended time. The Norse (8 feet) was bit heaver, stiffer, but looked amazing.
  
 For HD800, I'm considering getting an extra cable for desk use, around 6 feet in length. What are some options at that length that are durable, flexible and lightweight? I think this time around I want to go with pure copper.


----------



## potkettleblack

Can anybody confirm if Sennheiser improved the paint on recent 800's? I'll be treating them like sheet glass regardless, but I understand there used (?) to be issues with the paint chipping but haven't heard/read much about it when reading posts after 2013 ish.


----------



## Hal X

potkettleblack said:


> Can anybody confirm if Sennheiser improved the paint on recent 800's? I'll be treating them like sheet glass regardless, but I understand there used (?) to be issues with the paint chipping but haven't heard/read much about it when reading posts after 2013 ish.


 
 Been using them for a year now and had no such issues


----------



## bmichels

zoom25 said:


> ...For HD800, I'm considering getting an extra cable for desk use, around 6 feet in length. What are some options at that length that are durable, flexible and lightweight? I think this time around I want to go with pure copper.


 
  
 I heard a lot of good things about the WyWire RED cable for Headphone.  
  
 I have one ordered that I should receive soon.


----------



## mikemercer

blackmore said:


> Mike, finished cable will be around USD 900, or I am looking at wrong one?
> 
> THX


 
 I just got these cables for review w/ all the adapters not too long before CES - but they made a HUGE impression on me for BOTH HD800s and my Audezes (pictures below at the Audeze booth at the Convention Center on my LCD-XCs. I'd reach out to @scootermafia  because I believe the cost changes depending on length, and adapters you wanr.
  

  
  


akhyar said:


> Mike,
> Have you ever tried the Nordost Heimdall2 headphone cable for HD800?
> If yes, which you prefer vs the DHC?
> 
> No chance for me to audition the DHC over here but the local dealer for Nordost might be able to t-loan me the cable


 
 H__l Yeah!
  
 The Nordost Heimdall 2 was the first cable that transformed my HD800 experience before the DHC Comp4 Extreme actually!!
 As I've been relying on Nordost for a long time now - only problem w/ the Heimdall 2 (and I told them they should have some Head-Fiers as beta-testers for feedback) - and why I never travel with it - are those damn adapters with the full-size XLRs! Two of em plugged-in together gets heavy!
  
 But, for at-home - the Nordost is in my top 5 for SURE
  
  


longbowbbs said:


> Welcome to the party Michael! HD800's and Audeze are like two favorite flavors of ice cream. What do you want today?


 
 GREAT way to put it!!


----------



## Acapella11

zoom25 said:


> For HD800, I'm considering getting an extra cable for desk use, around 6 feet in length. What are some options at that length that are durable, flexible and lightweight? I think this time around I want to go with pure copper.


 
  
 Not lightweight but a very good single copper crystal cable would be the Norne Draug 2.


----------



## mikemercer

bmichels said:


> I heard a lot of good things about the WyWire RED cable for Headphone.
> 
> I have one ordered that I should receive soon.


 
 NICE! Congrats! I helped voice that cable for the HD800s and Audezes!!
  
 It was nerve-wracking (taking that chance, but Alex S at Wywires is GREAT) seeing if people responded well to it! If NOT, oh man, that woulda been BAD.
 I was nervous to say the least - but once we got the prototype to where I dug it, I asked Alex to send it to a few trusted Head-Fiers I know really well, and the consensus was very positive. Now thats the way to go from serving just the high-end audio community to getting into headphone culture.
  
 How some of these high-end companies just completely ignore our community - and then introduce a headphone-related product without reaching out like Wywires did - well, some of them learn the hard way!!
  
 Was the red accent on your 800s done by Colorware BTW?? Looks AMAZING


acapella11 said:


> Not lightweight but a very good single copper crystal cable would be the Norne Draug 2.


 
 yeah Norne and DHC,
 and I'm not sure about it being single copper crystal - but the Cardas Clear served me well for a long time.


----------



## potkettleblack

hal x said:


> Been using them for a year now and had no such issues




As I sit here on the bus, in rush hour, with a heavily wrapped box containing my brand-new HD800's (picked up a week before I was supposed to get them) in between my legs. A comment like yours has made my journey a lot more manageable. 
I haven't been this excited since I first played final fantasy 7 on my PlayStation 1.
I can feel myself changing with every mile the bus route progresses.

I'm looking at spotty, pre-pubescent teenagers with their chrome dre beats and I feel like a better person than them.

what's happening to me Sennheiser brother's? Where is my humility?

For months I have watched an immeasurable amount of HD800 YouTube unboxing videos. I have read the envious comments beneath them and thought ''I'm that guy!''.

But I'm not that guy. And never will be.

For I am one of the elite now. One of the chosen ones.


----------



## mikemercer

potkettleblack said:


> As I sit here on the bus, in rush hour, with a heavily wrapped box containing my brand-new HD800's (picked up a week before I was supposed to get them) in between my legs. A comment like yours has made my journey a lot more manageable.
> I haven't been this excited since I first played final fantasy 7 on my PlayStation 1.
> I can feel myself changing with every mile the bus route progresses.
> 
> ...


 
 we need a secret hand-shake


----------



## Blackmore

Thanks and indeed, the one I saw was 8ft with normal RCA connector without any extra adapters, price USD 875
  
  
  
 Quote:


mikemercer said:


> I just got these cables for review w/ all the adapters not too long before CES - but they made a HUGE impression on me for BOTH HD800s and my Audezes (pictures below at the Audeze booth at the Convention Center on my LCD-XCs. I'd reach out to @scootermafia  because I believe the cost changes depending on length, and adapters you wanr.


----------



## Zoom25

potkettleblack said:


> As I sit here on the bus, in rush hour, with a heavily wrapped box containing my brand-new HD800's (picked up a week before I was supposed to get them) in between my legs. A comment like yours has made my journey a lot more manageable.
> I haven't been this excited since I first played final fantasy 7 on my PlayStation 1.
> I can feel myself changing with every mile the bus route progresses.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm so excited for you. I'm getting my new pair in a week or two.
  
 It will be interesting to compare the new one with fresh pads and see if there will be a difference in the sound  either positive or negative) vs. an older with worn in pads.


----------



## Zoom25

acapella11 said:


> Not lightweight but a very good single copper crystal cable would be the Norne Draug 2.


 

 I hear the Draug 2 come up the most. Does it look like the Norse cable I posted previously?


----------



## pedalhead

potkettleblack said:


> As I sit here on the bus, in rush hour, with a heavily wrapped box containing my brand-new HD800's (picked up a week before I was supposed to get them) in between my legs. A comment like yours has made my journey a lot more manageable.
> I haven't been this excited since I first played final fantasy 7 on my PlayStation 1.
> I can feel myself changing with every mile the bus route progresses.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I guess you might be bringing something to the UK meet after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 Good for you mate!  Enjoy them, they're wonderful.


----------



## whirlwind

zoom25 said:


> Back in the day I had these two cable for my Audezes: Headphone Lounge (some silver stuff) and Norse Audio (copper - Norse 4 conductor nrs-up-occ).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I just received this Draug 2 from Trevor, at Norne Audio, a couple of days ago....I am really digging it....can't stop listening


----------



## ruthieandjohn

potkettleblack said:


> As I sit here on the bus, in rush hour, with a heavily wrapped box containing my brand-new HD800's (picked up a week before I was supposed to get them) in between my legs. A comment like yours has made my journey a lot more manageable.
> I haven't been this excited since I first played final fantasy 7 on my PlayStation 1.
> I can feel myself changing with every mile the bus route progresses.
> 
> ...



Be sure you add the HD 800s to your community profile here. People look to see what headphones someone has before they decide whether to pay attention to their posts. HD 800s make you Smarter!


----------



## zilch0md

ruthieandjohn said:


> HD 800s make you Smarter!




I'd better sell my Amperiors!


----------



## Eee Pee

And buy a $875 cable!


----------



## notsimar

Got my cert today and figured I would share.


----------



## Mach3

notsimar said:


> Got my cert today and figured I would share.


 
  
 Your graph almost looks like mine except my 10k plus is slightly higher. SN of my pairs at 22XXX


----------



## notsimar

mine is in the 32xxx range


----------



## Mach3

notsimar said:


> mine is in the 32xxx range


 
 Lol I notice that on your pic you post 32330


----------



## notsimar

i was reading the older posts in this thread, it was interesting to see the 6k hump looked flattened compared to others.  wonder if more folks in the 32xxx range are going to have similar looking graphs.
  
 I have to say I enjoy them lots regardless of the graph, but they are incredibly unforgiving for source issues.  That way the t1's are a bit more fun.


----------



## kapanak

I got mine a few weeks ago


----------



## Canadian411

eee pee said:


> And buy a $875 cable!




Lol


----------



## RUMAY408

notsimar said:


> i was reading the older posts in this thread, it was interesting to see the 6k hump looked flattened compared to others.  wonder if more folks in the 32xxx range are going to have similar looking graphs.
> 
> I have to say I enjoy them lots regardless of the graph, but they are incredibly unforgiving for source issues.  That way the t1's are a bit more fun.


 

 The T1 is a much more forgiving HP, and a really nice HP.
  
 The HD800 with an above average recording>source>DAC>AMP is so much better, the imaging, soundstage and transparency just blows me away


----------



## koiloco

ruthieandjohn said:


> Be sure you add the HD 800s to your community profile here. People look to see what headphones someone has before they decide whether to pay attention to their posts. HD 800s make you Smarter!


 
 Or dumber by some people's standards...


----------



## koiloco

potkettleblack said:


> As I sit here on the bus, in rush hour, with a heavily wrapped box containing my brand-new HD800's (picked up a week before I was supposed to get them) in between my legs. A comment like yours has made my journey a lot more manageable.
> I haven't been this excited since I first played final fantasy 7 on my PlayStation 1.
> I can feel myself changing with every mile the bus route progresses.
> 
> ...


 
  I hope that wasn't why you bought they HD800.  Anyway, gratz!  Now, it's time to upgrade the rest of the chain.


----------



## money4me247

koiloco said:


> I hope that wasn't why you bought they HD800.  Anyway, gratz!  Now, it's time to upgrade the rest of the chain.


 
 Is there any other more gratifying reason to spend $1k+ on a pair of headphones than the head-fi streetzcred & respect that comes with it???
  
 BOW BEFORE ME YE LOWLY UNWORTHY PEASANTS!!!!


----------



## Mortalcoil

ruthieandjohn said:


> Be sure you add the HD 800s to your community profile here. People look to see what headphones someone has before they decide whether to pay attention to their posts. HD 800s make you Smarter!


 

  I have heard that some people on here even pay attention to those people owning early Joe Grado headphones and in turn respond to or quote there posts.


----------



## Mach3

rumay408 said:


> The T1 is a much more forgiving HP, and a really nice HP.
> 
> The HD800 with an above average recording>source>DAC>AMP is so much better, the imaging, soundstage and transparency just blows me away


 
 I've seen a 34k with the 6k hump. So it looks like luck of the draw.


----------



## Blackmore

Whats that hump mean anyway and how do you see that its there? Does it jump higher at some frequency curve than on another, is that what it is?
  
 THX
  
 Quote:


mach3 said:


> I've seen a 34k with the 6k hump. So it looks like luck of the draw.


----------



## notsimar

some folks are more sensitive to sounds in the 6k range and the slightly elevated response from the hd800 in that range makes it uncomfortable to listen sometimes.


----------



## Blackmore

ok, so, basically, its all about db, right?
  
 I just found some online and compared to my and indeed, there are differences, not only around 6k.


----------



## akhyar

mikemercer said:


> .... H__l Yeah!
> 
> The Nordost Heimdall 2 was the first cable that transformed my HD800 experience before the DHC Comp4 Extreme actually!!
> As I've been relying on Nordost for a long time now - only problem w/ the Heimdall 2 (and I told them they should have some Head-Fiers as beta-testers for feedback) - and why I never travel with it - are those damn adapters with the full-size XLRs! Two of em plugged-in together gets heavy!
> ...


 
  
 Thanks Mike.
 For portable use, I do agree that the piggy-back adapter fpr the Heimdall2 can be a PITA.


----------



## punit

Just thought that I would ask a question that has been bugging me for some time. I noticed that when people mention the serial no. of their HD 800 they hide the last digits ex.32xxx or 25xxx. So was curious about that ? It's not your bank a/c PIN code or something ? so why hide it, what happens if someone knows your serial no ? how can they misuse it ?


----------



## potkettleblack

koiloco said:


> I hope that wasn't why you bought they HD800.  Anyway, gratz!  Now, it's time to upgrade the rest of the chain.


 
 No. 3, 2 hour auditions and a half decent disposable income was why I bought them 
  
 I was worried that when I wrote that a few might take it more seriously then it was meant.


----------



## Blackmore

2x
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


punit said:


> Just thought that I would ask a question that has been bugging me for some time. I noticed that when people mention the serial no. of their HD 800 they hide the last digits ex.32xxx or 25xxx. So was curious about that ? It's not your bank a/c PIN code or something ? so why hide it, what happens if someone knows your serial no ? how can they misuse it ?


----------



## potkettleblack

Just to chime in on what I think of these so far.
  
 I'm more impressed than I thought I ever would be. Really astonishing - and I was in no position to judge these until I owned a pair for myself.
  
 I was up until about 330am listening to all sorts of genres with varying quality files.
  
 As they say the 800's certainly shine with acoustic and many types of classical. What did surprise is how well they do with others do though - certain hiphop and EDM.
  
 The detail retrieval takes a lot of getting used to. I thought my 700's would prepare me but I was very wrong. I also find it hilarious (because I'm not used to it) that they make well recorded material sound PHENOMINAL and MASSACRE badly recorded material.
  
 The fact that the bass (by some) is considered the worst part of these really puzzles me. They aren't warm, and I never expected them  to be, but they are very neutral to my ears, and the bass is ridiculously accurate and well extended, and EXTREMELY satisfying.
  
 I want to say many more things so you'll have to excuse how brief I've been for the minute.
  
 Overall impressions have surpassed even what I dreamt of them being. I'm so, so happy I got them. I'm sat here grinning right now. Is it wrong for me to have butterflies over a pair of headphones?
  
 Anybody got any suggestions on albums? I listen to everything, and get them ''legally'' from the net, and ITunes.


----------



## whirlwind

potkettleblack said:


> Just to chime in on what I think of these so far.
> 
> I'm more impressed than I thought I ever would be. Really astonishing - and I was in no position to judge these until I owned a pair for myself.
> 
> ...


 
 Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms
 Pink Floyd - The Division Bell


----------



## potkettleblack

zoom25 said:


> I'm so excited for you. I'm getting my new pair in a week or two.
> 
> It will be interesting to compare the new one with fresh pads and see if there will be a difference in the sound  either positive or negative) vs. an older with worn in pads.


 
 Have you just treated yourself to a new pair, just because you would like a new pair?


----------



## notsimar

punit said:


> Just thought that I would ask a question that has been bugging me for some time. I noticed that when people mention the serial no. of their HD 800 they hide the last digits ex.32xxx or 25xxx. So was curious about that ? It's not your bank a/c PIN code or something ? so why hide it, what happens if someone knows your serial no ? how can they misuse it ?


 
 Its not really hiding, mine was posted in my graph.  I just assumed that 32xxx is just an idea of when your headphone was produced and not an intent to hide your specifics.


----------



## Mach3

potkettleblack said:


> Just to chime in on what I think of these so far.
> 
> I'm more impressed than I thought I ever would be. Really astonishing - and I was in no position to judge these until I owned a pair for myself.
> 
> ...




Hell Freeze Over by the Eagle is crazy with the HD800


----------



## PleasantSounds

potkettleblack said:


> [..]
> Overall impressions have surpassed even what I dreamt of them being. I'm so, so happy I got them. I'm sat here grinning right now. Is it wrong for me to have butterflies over a pair of headphones?
> 
> Anybody got any suggestions on albums? I listen to everything, and get them ''legally'' from the net, and ITunes.


 
  
 Would be great to hear what upstream gear supplies this sound nirvana.
  
 Regarding recommendations: check Patricia Barber - in particular Nightclub and Modern Cool.


----------



## Zoom25

potkettleblack said:


> Just to chime in on what I think of these so far.
> 
> I'm more impressed than I thought I ever would be. Really astonishing - and I was in no position to judge these until I owned a pair for myself.
> 
> ...


 

 You pretty much had the same reaction as me. I found the HD800 to be better than HE-500, HE-6, LCD-2 and LCD-3 for electronic, hip hop, pop, rap, r&b....all the genres that the HD800 supposedly shouldn't be bought for.


----------



## Zoom25

potkettleblack said:


> Have you just treated yourself to a new pair, just because you would like a new pair?


 

 I was using my buddies mostly, so I didn't need a pair as I had access all the time. He recently relocated so I had to pick myself a pair. I didn't go used because I already knew that HD800 had been working for me, so might as well buy new for the end game. Next up is probably Colorware.


----------



## olor1n

potkettleblack said:


> [...]
> 
> Anybody got any suggestions on albums? I listen to everything, and get them ''legally'' from the net, and ITunes.


----------



## dxanex

punit said:


> Just thought that I would ask a question that has been bugging me for some time. I noticed that when people mention the serial no. of their HD 800 they hide the last digits ex.32xxx or 25xxx. So was curious about that ? It's not your bank a/c PIN code or something ? so why hide it, what happens if someone knows your serial no ? how can they misuse it ?


 

 My guess is people don't memorize the entire number, but at least know the general number. Like I know mine are in the 17,000's so it's 17xxx.
  
 But since I'm wearing mine I can tell you that it is in fact 17587...otherwise known as the "magic butter mids era" run. Just please don't tell anyone.


----------



## SilentFrequency

hifihedgehog said:


> I just went backward page by page from the thread's end looking to see if the rumors were true and, I have to say, I am inclined to believe the HD800 is being discontinued. Given these conditions, judging by how much the Denon AH-Dx000 line skyrocketed in price upon being discontinued, I could easily see the new in-box HD800's going for STAX and Audeze LCD3 prices. It is very possible the HD800 has reached collector's item status.




omg! :eek:

So glad to own the hd800 now it's been discontinued and I'm guessing the price for used pairs will rise too.

This has got to mean Sennheiser have a new flagship about to be released just like HiFiMan


----------



## Zoom25

dxanex said:


> My guess is people don't memorize the entire number, but at least know the general number. Like I know mine are in the 17,000's so it's 17xxx.
> 
> But since I'm wearing mine I can tell you that it is in fact 17587...otherwise known as the "magic butter mids era" run. Just please don't tell anyone.


 
  
 I really, really hope they all sound the same. The previous pair I had been listening to was in fact from 17XXX. The new pair will be in the 3XXXX.


----------



## potkettleblack

pleasantsounds said:


> Would be great to hear what upstream gear supplies this sound nirvana.
> 
> Regarding recommendations: check Patricia Barber - in particular Nightclub and Modern Cool


 
 Ok. This would probably consider me an underling compared to the rest of you but I use VOX/VLC PLayer/ITUNES (with a Flac converter), MacBook pro mid 2014 (I've read on a few sites that anything past 2013 have great onboard DAC's,  and a JDS labs o2.
  
 Eric Clapton unplugged and BAD by Michael Jackson (flac) were some of the most impressive albums I heard last night. But many other single songs impressed me just as much.
  
 I've heard the HD800 originally with the HDVD 800 twice and actually preferred my O2 as it seemed to give me zero problems with sibilance and the highs in general. And I don't think this was psychosomatic.


----------



## Insidious Meme

silentfrequency said:


> omg! :eek:
> 
> So glad to own the hd800 now it's been discontinued and I'm guessing the price for used pairs will rise too.
> 
> This has got to mean Sennheiser have a new flagship about to be released just like HiFiMan




Uh, more like those who have them will sell them in order to fund the new flagship. Might see a big HD800 dumping ground once the flagship has been put through its paces and reviewed.


----------



## potkettleblack

zoom25 said:


> I was using my buddies mostly, so I didn't need a pair as I had access all the time. He recently relocated so I had to pick myself a pair. I didn't go used because I already knew that HD800 had been working for me, so might as well buy new for the end game. Next up is probably Colorware.


 
 Nice.
  
 Im still considering a colorware job on mine. Both the original paintwork and something like black and white appeal to me though so it's hard


----------



## Zoom25

potkettleblack said:


> Nice.
> 
> Im still considering a colorware job on mine. Both the original paintwork and something like black and white appeal to me though so it's hard


 

 Yeah same. I have like 3 templates that I've been working on for a few months, but keep changing it from one to another. I know I'm not going all black for sure. The black and red or red and golden look nice, but might get bored of it over time. Leaning more towards a whitish/grey finish


----------



## pedalhead

Unless I missed something, rumours of the HD800 being discontinued have been proven false.  Sennheiser apparently have no plans at the moment to either discontinue or replace the HD800.


----------



## dxanex

pedalhead said:


> Unless I missed something, rumours of the HD800 being discontinued have been proven false.  Sennheiser apparently have no plans at the moment to either discontinue or replace the HD800.


 

 Yup, this has been confirmed by members of the trade/contributors as well as people contacting Sennheiser directly. The HD 800 is not going anywhere anytime soon. This is just baseless hearsay that absolutely refuses to die.





  
 For the sake of my sanity I wont speak on it again.


----------



## Insidious Meme

Yeah, there's been alot of smoke and no fire. We'll see how it goes.


----------



## SilentFrequency

dxanex said:


> Yup, this has been confirmed by members of the trade/contributors as well as people contacting Sennheiser directly. The HD 800 is not going anywhere anytime soon. This is just baseless hearsay that absolutely refuses to die.
> 
> 
> For the sake of my sanity I wont speak on it again.




Oh, sorry, I just thought I'd also read that it was no longer listed in various countries Sennheiser sites, but if that not the case then all the better to have the hd800 around then I guess


----------



## pedalhead

Yep, I got all excited earlier in the thread at the rumours of a replacement, and then they were firmly squashed by the total lack of anything but lower end stuff announced by Sennheiser at CES.  I guess it just adds to the inevitable explosion throughout Geekdom for when they finally do announce a new flagship 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## dxanex

silentfrequency said:


> Oh, sorry, I just thought I'd also read that it was no longer listed in various countries Sennheiser sites, but if that not the case then all the better to have the hd800 around then I guess


 

 Oh, no need to apologize, that wasn't directed to at you...it's just cropped up so many times now I had to make a general rant. Nobody will talk about it in a few weeks and go back to enjoying the HD 800!


----------



## Fegefeuer

the world's best selling high end headphone of all time and present is getting discontinued....suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure


----------



## MacedonianHero

dxanex said:


> Yup, this has been confirmed by members of the trade/contributors as well as people contacting Sennheiser directly. The HD 800 is not going anywhere anytime soon. This is just baseless hearsay that absolutely refuses to die.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


fegefeuer said:


> the world's best selling high end headphone of all time and present is getting discontinued....suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure


 
  
 Exactly!


----------



## mikemercer

olor1n said:


>


 
 if you're a fan - the new Smashing Pumpkins LP - _Monuments to an Elegy_ is fantastic through my HD800s + Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies!!

  


fegefeuer said:


> the world's best selling high end headphone of all time and present is getting discontinued....suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure


 
 seriously.
 Did ANYBODY believe this BS?!?!


----------



## MacedonianHero

mikemercer said:


> if you're a fan - the new Smashing Pumpkins LP - _Monuments to an Elegy_ is fantastic through my HD800s + Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies!!
> 
> 
> seriously.
> Did ANYBODY believe this BS?!?!


 
  
 I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn if you believe it Mike...real cheap.


----------



## potkettleblack

Guys,
  
 What the hell is this about?
  
  


 Everything else on the set is flawless, minus this weird finish error that DOESN'T exist on a friends.
  
 I think I'd like a replacement.


----------



## mikemercer

macedonianhero said:


> I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn if you believe it Mike...real cheap.


 
 LOL - did you know I was a Brooklyn boy - or did you just spit that?
 Either way - a good belly-laugh was in order for me  - as I've been stuck at-home sick - post CES...
  
  
  


potkettleblack said:


> Guys,
> 
> What the hell is this about?
> 
> ...


 
  Uh. Yeah - thats not cool - my serial # on my HD800s is under 600 (I inherited them from a fallen Head-Fier and dear friend) and there's nothing like that going on!
 When did you buy em????


----------



## MacedonianHero

mikemercer said:


> LOL - did you know I was a Brooklyn boy - or did you just spit that?
> Either way - a good belly-laugh was in order for me  - as I've been stuck at-home sick - post CES...


 
  
 I didn't realize you were from Brooklyn...wanna by the bridge? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry to hear you're sick...funny so am I.


----------



## earthpeople

I've got a small spot like that on mine, SN 33943


----------



## dxanex

I had the same thing on the mesh of my hd700...same kind of material. I carefully rubbed it off with my finger and it went away. I think it's just some oily residue maybe from the manufacturing process?


----------



## kapanak

I also had a couple of spots on the steel mesh similar to that, it goes away with a little light rubbing with a clean cotton shirt. It helps to fog it with your mouth a bit too lol
  
  
 A question for owners of this headphone. Back when I originally owned this, my primary taste in music was classical, instrumental and orchestra in general, as well as Jazz and many more heavily instrument and vocal based music.
  
 Since then, between 2012 that I sold my original HD800 (97XX), and end of 2014, where I purchased my new pair (34XXX), I have added EDM and House and Trance and a lot of foreign pop music into my playlists.
  
 The HD800 still sounds just as great as it did with the genres I mentioned (in fact better), but somehow sucks the fun out of any electronic music and makes them dry.
  
 I personally believe this is due to the amazing separation of different tracks and tones and inside electronic music, and I feel that electronic music really doesn't need soundstage and sounds better if it has a more "inside your head" feel to it. That's my personal opinion.
  
 I would like to hear your opinions on the matter. Thank you


----------



## Blackmore

Quote:


potkettleblack said:


> Anybody got any suggestions on albums? I listen to everything, and get them ''legally'' from the net, and ITunes.


----------



## drez

kapanak said:


> I also had a couple of spots on the steel mesh similar to that, it goes away with a little light rubbing with a clean cotton shirt. It helps to fog it with your mouth a bit too lol
> 
> 
> A question for owners of this headphone. Back when I originally owned this, my primary taste in music was classical, instrumental and orchestra in general, as well as Jazz and many more heavily instrument and vocal based music.
> ...


 

 Everyone listens differently, personally I have zero EDM in my music collection., but yeah with some music the strengths of the HD800 for providing musical insight will not be fully utilised.  What I find amazing though is flicking between different recordings, you can hear the performance, recording and mastering so distinctly but this is quite a cerebral mode of listening.  
  
 Still this reveals the chameleon quality of the HD800.  This also might open up other possibilities to inject some MSG into the music via DSP and EQ to try and emulate more "fun" headphones.  Could also open up the possibility of a sibling for the HD800 to better enhance certain genres and modes of listening.


----------



## Viper2005

kapanak said:


> I also had a couple of spots on the steel mesh similar to that, it goes away with a little light rubbing with a clean cotton shirt. It helps to fog it with your mouth a bit too lol
> 
> 
> A question for owners of this headphone. Back when I originally owned this, my primary taste in music was classical, instrumental and orchestra in general, as well as Jazz and many more heavily instrument and vocal based music.
> ...


 
  
 I find that having a phone like the LCD-X to accompany the HD800, will pretty much cover all the musical bases


----------



## hekeli

kapanak said:


> I feel that electronic music really doesn't need soundstage and sounds better if it has a more "inside your head" feel to it. That's my personal opinion.
> 
> I would like to hear your opinions on the matter. Thank you


 
  
 You do realise that there's 25451 genres inside "electronic music"? Yeah maybe if you listen to the average "pop" house or trance there's not an immediately need, but certainly on lots of things the soundscapes are amazing..


----------



## kapanak

drez said:


> Everyone listens differently, personally I have zero EDM in my music collection., but yeah with some music the strengths of the HD800 for providing musical insight will not be fully utilised.  What I find amazing though is flicking between different recordings, you can hear the performance, recording and mastering so distinctly but this is quite a cerebral mode of listening.
> 
> Still this reveals the chameleon quality of the HD800.  This also might open up other possibilities to inject some MSG into the music via DSP and EQ to try and emulate more "fun" headphones.  Could also open up the possibility of a sibling for the HD800 to better enhance certain genres and modes of listening.


 

 I agree with the choice of words "cerebral mode of listening", haha. The HD 800 begs to be listened to, in a very attentive, vigilant way.


----------



## notsimar

I ended up 


viper2005 said:


> I find that having a phone like the LCD-X to accompany the HD800, will pretty much cover all the musical bases


 
 I ended up with at T1 for that very reason, I listen to the T1 more now than HD800, but it just appeals to me more for most things.


----------



## Sorrodje

I'm listening a lot of EDM and I wouldn't use another headphone than the HD800 but as Hekeli previously said, there're many different styles in Electronic music.
  
 I'm more into this Kind  of Music :
  

  
 Infected Mushsrooms sounds good too :
  

  
  
 I do feel a lot of EDM benefit a lot from HD800's abilty to reproduce sound textures and ambiances.


----------



## Zoom25

Trance works really well with HD800. I'm talking about labels like Armada and Enhanced here. Only the HD800's nail the ambience to my liking. The Denon's and Hifimans also come close here. Audeze's fall short here.  Honestly don't listen much to trance or the mainstream EDM (Ultra, Ministry of Sound) anymore. Mostly been listening to stuff with vocals (hip hop, pop, rap, r&b, house, rock, deep house) nowadays rather than just pure instrumentals (so no pure electronic, jazz without vocals or classic). Deep house and lounge is the only pure instrumental I listen to nowadays. Occasional AnjunaBEATS/DEEP don't hurt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  
 Classic Kaskade stuff. Love the vocals here.


----------



## potkettleblack

mikemercer said:


> LOL - did you know I was a Brooklyn boy - or did you just spit that?
> Either way - a good belly-laugh was in order for me  - as I've been stuck at-home sick - post CES...
> 
> 
> ...


 
 2 days ago


----------



## potkettleblack

kapanak said:


> I also had a couple of spots on the steel mesh similar to that, it goes away with a little light rubbing with a clean cotton shirt. It helps to fog it with your mouth a bit too lol
> 
> 
> A question for owners of this headphone. Back when I originally owned this, my primary taste in music was classical, instrumental and orchestra in general, as well as Jazz and many more heavily instrument and vocal based music.
> ...


 
 No no I thought the same because my 700's had it. This isn't going anywhere I tried for 10 minutes. Already spoke to my shop and I think im gonna get them replaced - it would play havoc with my OCD lol.


----------



## Anda

kapanak said:


> I personally believe this is due to the amazing separation of different tracks and tones and inside electronic music, and I feel that electronic music really doesn't need soundstage and sounds better if it has a more "inside your head" feel to it. That's my personal opinion.
> 
> I would like to hear your opinions on the matter. Thank you


 
  
 Are you listening from a PC? Have you tried adding some crossfeed to get a more focused headstage?
 I ask because I've experienced the same "problem" with my HE-6 recently and therefore I've started using a BS2B plugin with my software player.


----------



## Mortalcoil

potkettleblack said:


> No no I thought the same because my 700's had it. This isn't going anywhere I tried for 10 minutes. Already spoke to my shop and I think im gonna get them replaced - it would play havoc with my OCD lol.


 
  
  
 I don't blame you.  If it wont wipe away definitely due for a return.


----------



## Justin_Time

kapanak said:


> I also had a couple of spots on the steel mesh similar to that, it goes away with a little light rubbing with a clean cotton shirt. It helps to fog it with your mouth a bit too lol
> 
> 
> A question for owners of this headphone. Back when I originally owned this, my primary taste in music was classical, instrumental and orchestra in general, as well as Jazz and many more heavily instrument and vocal based music.
> ...


 
 On electronic music, I agree.  Much of--but certainly not all--electronic music, which I love, is recorded as multitracks with each instrument recorded on a separate track, then the whole thing mixed together.  So there is not much studio- or hall sound left nor is it necessarily desired or needed for this type of music. Any ambience or soundstage in the recording is usually artificial meaning it was intentionally added by the artist/producer/recording engineer as part of their creative art (example: space music from the 80s-90s). So, yes, you do not need soundstage most of the time with electronic music.
  
 On the "dry" sound of electronic music, I suggest you look up the chain of your system for the culprit.  The HD800 is a very high-quality instrument that is ruthlessly revealing.  You have to make sure that your cable, amp and DAC  are capable of faithfully re-producing the sound from the source (the recording) without adding their own flaws.  I hear dry sound from my HD800 system only when the recording was dry. But very often, I also hear rich sounds with beautiful overtones, colors and textures and even artificial ambiance (soundstage) through the HD800 when such sounds are in the source.  
  
 The HD800 is a harsh mistress.


----------



## SilentFrequency

fegefeuer said:


> the world's best selling high end headphone of all time and present is getting discontinued....suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure




Actually, that's what I was thinking too.


----------



## Dopaminer

justin_time said:


> . . .
> 
> 
> The HD800 is a harsh mistress.


 
  
 Yes.  And my T5P is candle-wax-dripping dominatrix.  With both of them, I find the more organic electronica is spectacular.  Recently I`ve been way into this Mystic Sounds Records label; some of their stuff is really great, and they have FLAC downloads, and several of the albums are enter-your-price.  I`ve ended up paying them quite a bit of money, however.  Some real quality .  .  . 
  
https://mysticsound.bandcamp.com/album/ethneomystica-vol-2


----------



## hekeli

justin_time said:


> So, yes, you do not need soundstage most of the time with electronic music.


 
  
 This "fact" makes as much sense as saying that any music can be listened from an old mono radio. Of course the essence of the music stays the same, but it's much more rewarding to hear all the separation, reverb, panning effects etc that good headphones provide. Now it's possible that one might _prefer_ a closed in sound, but that doesn't mean it's _needed_. I do have my Senn HD8's for "thumping it out", but I have a hard time finding any music that wouldn't benefit from HD800's. Maybe some schranz remixes or similar underproduced things that you would have to be braindead to listen anyway.


----------



## SilentFrequency

This trk is sooo amazing with the hd800's  



[VIDEO]http://youtu.be/crrOl0egI00[/VIDEO]


----------



## traehekat

Looking at cables, looking for some suggestions. Mostly looking at Toxic Cables or Moon Audio. Any thoughts between the two? Also if I find the HD800 a touch bright I should probably go with copper rather than silver, right? Thanks!


----------



## Justin_Time

hekeli said:


> This "fact" makes as much sense as saying that any music can be listened from an old mono radio. Of course the essence of the music stays the same, but it's much more rewarding to hear all the separation, reverb, panning effects etc that good headphones provide. Now it's possible that one might _prefer_ a closed in sound, but that doesn't mean it's _needed_. I do have my Senn HD8's for "thumping it out", but I have a hard time finding any music that wouldn't benefit from HD800's. Maybe some schranz remixes that you would have to be braindead to listen anyway.


 
 Please read carefully.  All I was saying was that much of the "electronic music" (not "any music" as you stated) is created on the Master Mixer from tracks of each instrument recorded separately. There is limited to no recording studio sound or concert hall sound in the individual instrument recording and definitely none that is coherent in the final mix (source) to begin with so there is nothing the HD800 can do to re-create a soundstage that does not exist in the source to begin with.
  
 I said nothing about what my sonic preference, or that I am brain-dead as you so kindly suggested, but simply that the outstanding soundstage re-production that the HD800 is capable of re-creating is not necessary of much use in some electronic music (not all as I alluded to for Space Music) where such soundstage is not present in the recording to begin with.  A very simple and limited statement, so I thought.


----------



## Justin_Time

Yep, pretty amazing even with my PC sound!  Thanks!


----------



## hekeli

justin_time said:


> Please read carefully.  All I was saying was that much of the "electronic music" (not "any music" as you stated) is created on the Master Mixer from tracks of each instrument recorded separately. There is limited to no recording studio sound or concert hall sound in the individual instrument recording and definitely none that is coherent in the final mix (source) to begin with so there is nothing the HD800 can do to re-create a soundstage that does not exist in the source to begin with.
> 
> I said nothing about what my sonic preference, or that I am brain-dead as you so kindly suggested, but simply that the outstanding soundstage re-production that the HD800 is capable of re-creating is not necessary of much use in some electronic music (not all as I alluded to for Space Music) where such soundstage is not present in the recording to begin with.  A very simple and limited statement, so I thought.


 
  
 Perhaps you need to read my post again, nowhere I was suggesting that _you_ are braindead - it was intended as a joking comment anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Perhaps we are obsessing on the definition of "soundstage". Obviously it's of no importance if there's _recorded studio/hall sound_ in electronic music - or any music for that matter - I couldn't care less if jazz, rock, orchestral or classical music is a multi-track computer mix or live recording! If it sounds good and moves you, that's all that matters. Naturally someone might prefer otherwise, especially if they haven't grown up in the electronic times.
  
 But I'm willing to bet that majority of electronic music (atlast half-decendly produced), has some sort of "ambiance" or "space" (not just space music... eh). Reverb and spatial effects are a big part of it and they are used pretty much everywhere. Whether one likes to feel like floating in endless space of sounds and layers is just a matter of preference. For some that might be "dry", for some it might be amazing experience. I prefer to feel the space as much as I can as it takes me nearer to the trance-inducing-feeling of old raves where I grew up.
  
 And yeah so far HD800s are by far the best I've heard digging up all that ambiance and endless space.


----------



## Justin_Time

potkettleblack said:


> Guys,
> 
> What the hell is this about?
> 
> ...


 
 If you are a perfectionist when it comes to the finish, you should get a replacement.
  
 I have bought three pairs of HD800 in the past 2-3 years.  Two of them were perfect, one--I think it was the second pair--had a tiny flaw on the finish of the frame and another on the grill.  I do not think that is typical but it does happen.  I sent that pair to ColorWare for repainting and it returned with all the flaws gone.
  
 I like to help my local dealers as much as possible but sometimes it pays to buy through Amazon because of their generous return policy and fast shipping.


----------



## potkettleblack

justin_time said:


> If you are a perfectionist when it comes to the finish, you should get a replacement.
> 
> I have bought three pairs of HD800 in the past 2-3 years.  Two of them were perfect, one--I think it was the second pair--had a tiny flaw on the finish of the frame and another on the grill.  I do not think that is typical but it does happen.  I sent that pair to ColorWare for repainting and it returned with all the flaws gone.
> 
> I like to help my local dealers as much as possible but sometimes it pays to buy through Amazon because of their generous return policy and fast shipping.


 
 Theyre very nice! I am a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to the price they are.
  
 Sennheiser got back to me and were very, very cool in their response:
  
 ''Hi Lee,

 Indeed you're not in the right place but I'm happy to help out - did you but the headphones from an authorised supplier?

 With headphones of this value you can certainly expect support; I'm sure you will be able to have the headphones replaced were you to return them to the retailer - the retailer will then return them back to Sennheiser so this should be no trouble.

 I can offer the number for Sennheiser UK (proper) - 01628 402200. They will probably advise you to do the same, but there may be other options if returning to the retailer is not possible.

 Hope this helps,

 Steve''
  
  
 I'll be taking them back tomorrow, and enjoying the FLAC Jazz At The Pawnshop album I've downloaded ''legally'', later.


----------



## Justin_Time

hekeli said:


> Perhaps you need to read my post again, nowhere I was suggesting that _you_ are braindead - it was intended as a joking comment anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Again, I made my statement only within the confine of my response to *kapanak. ** *
  
 My simple statement was that the soundstage capability of the HD800 is unfortunately wasted when the sound stage is not present in some of the electronic music recordings to begin with.  And I have also clearly indicated that the "ambiance" or "soundstage" can exist as added by the recording artists in electronic music and especially  in "space music"  where such ambiance or sound-scape is the essence of that type of electronic music. I do not care to venture beyond that.


----------



## hekeli

justin_time said:


> My simple statement was that the soundstage capability of the HD800 is unfortunately wasted when the sound stage is not present in some of the electronic music recordings to begin with.


 
  
 And I was simply baiting on your "not needed most of the time" comment, which is different than "some of electronic music". Perhaps you just need to familiarize yourself with more of electronic music genres.
  
 To me, nothing is ever "wasted" with HD800, perhaps just less gained - but it still digs more things out than most.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

dopaminer said:


> Yes.  And my T5P is candle-wax-dripping dominatrix.  With both of them, I find the more organic electronica is spectacular.  Recently I`ve been way into this Mystic Sounds Records label; some of their stuff is really great, and they have FLAC downloads, and several of the albums are enter-your-price.  I`ve ended up paying them quite a bit of money, however.  Some real quality .  .  .
> 
> https://mysticsound.bandcamp.com/album/ethneomystica-vol-2



Hey. They didn't tell me about the candle wax dripping dominatrix mode on my T 5 ps. Which knob is that? I was just about to buy that separately!!


----------



## Sorrodje

@Hekeli et Justin_time : I think we all understood the point mates


----------



## Sorrodje

ruthieandjohn said:


> Hey. They didn't tell me about the candle wax dripping dominatrix mode on my T 5 ps. Which knob is that? I was just about to buy that separately!!


 
  
 Just buy a more expensive DAC or AMP to achieve the full experience.  We're in Summit-fi section after all.


----------



## Justin_Time

traehekat said:


> Looking at cables, looking for some suggestions. Mostly looking at Toxic Cables or Moon Audio. Any thoughts between the two? Also if I find the HD800 a touch bright I should probably go with copper rather than silver, right? Thanks!


 
 I have to make a small correction to my earlier statement about Silver vs. Copper in light of new information.
  
 I previously found that the HD800  sounds better with (fuller bass with more impact, smoother treble with less tendency toward sibilance) with the Toxic Cables Copper Venom (OCC Copper + cryo) than with the Silver Poison (OCC stranded silver + gold + cryo) or the Silver Widow (OCC 25.5 AWG silver Litz + gold + cryo).
  
 Apparently the new Toxic Cables Silver Widow SW22AWG with bigger wires (22 vs. 25.5 AWG) and different amount of gold (unknown) manages to retain the benefit of both the OCC copper (full-bodied bass, smooth treble) and OCC silver (better artuculation, better soundstage and more extended frequency extreme).
  
 I think you should give the SW22AWG a try with the HD.  I am trying that cable with the LCD3 and HE-6 first.


----------



## hekeli

sorrodje said:


> @Hekeli et Justin_time : I think we all understood the point mates


 
  
 What's the point in anything if not being anally retentive.


----------



## Justin_Time

hekeli said:


> And I was simply baiting on your "not needed most of the time" comment, which is different than "some of electronic music". Perhaps you just need to familiarize yourself with more of electronic music genres.
> 
> To me, nothing is ever "wasted" with HD800, perhaps just less gained - but it still digs more things out than most.


 
 Thank you for your recommended improvement of my education on electronic music.  Perhaps I need a little more seasoning after two decades of stale listening.


----------



## Justin_Time

sorrodje said:


> @Hekeli et Justin_time : I think we all understood the point mates


 
 The voice of wisdom:  Thank you for the kink reminder, Sorrodje!


----------



## analog'd

shoot me but I also like the recent smashing pumpkins album. have to go try it on my HD800s though as I've been using the lcd3 for this.


----------



## Samuel777

I have ordered this cable Sennheiser HD 800 Headphone Cable -- UPOCC (XL4 termination). For the HD800 i'm waiting for. i will receive the headphone from USA very soon (tomorrow or sunday)
 from charleston company : http://www.charlestoncablecompany.com/store/p11/Sennheiser_HD_800_Headphone_Cable_--_UPOCC.html
 But i really have none experience in Headphones cable, i made my choice without knowing exactly what i was ordering in term of quality.
  
 I asked Mr Latour about the quality, if it was the best or ... but he did not reply to my mail.
 So what can i expect from these cable ?
 thx
  
  
 Méaculpa : 
 I highly recommend Charleston cable : Good quality build and large improvement on the sound quality. there is an important difference with the stock cable in term of sound and quality. i order one for my brand new H800. their customer service is one of the best i have ever deal with.
 Best cable i have ever seen : http://www.charlestoncablecompany.com/store/p11/Sennheiser_HD_800_Headphone_Cable_--_UPOCC.html


----------



## SilentFrequency

samuel777 said:


> I have ordered this cable Sennheiser HD 800 Headphone Cable -- UPOCC (XL4 termination). For the HD800 i'm waiting for. i will receive the headphone from USA very soon (tomorrow or sunday)
> from charleston company : http://www.charlestoncablecompany.com/store/p11/Sennheiser_HD_800_Headphone_Cable_--_UPOCC.html
> But i really have none experience in Headphones cable, i made my choice without knowing exactly what i was ordering in term of quality.
> 
> ...





Well, according to the site you linked to:

_"This cable will lift the "Sennheiser veil", bringing the typical laid back Sennheiser sound up close and personal. With this cable you can expect to hear better channel separation, a wider soundstage, as well as deeper and more articulate bass."_

I'm honestly not sure those claims by your vendor are going to be your experience or not but from my understanding from discussions elsewhere here on HF, the main purpose of a cable is to be transparent.

Personally for me anyway, I would only get another cable for my hd800's if I wanted something shorter and maybe lighter than the standard one that comes with the headphones for convenience factor and not be necessarily for changing the sound, but I hope your cable works out for you and I hope you absolutely fall in love with your hd800's too


----------



## guido

I think he ordered the balanced cable...so it probably will sound different...whether the cable is good or not one can only speculate..


----------



## SilentFrequency

guido said:


> I think he ordered the balanced cable...so it probably will sound different...whether the cable is good or not one can only speculate..




Well the photo of the cable in the link looks just like the one that comes with the standard hd800's in the box?


----------



## Samuel777

silentfrequency said:


> Well the photo of the cable in the link looks just like the one that comes with the standard hd800's in the box?


 

 I ha ve received the cable today, it is very different with the stock cable i can see in piectures


----------



## SilentFrequency

samuel777 said:


> I ha ve received the cable today, it is very different with the stock cable i can see in piectures




If it looks like this v it means it's balanced cables



Which is different from the cable you linked


----------



## Samuel777

silentfrequency said:


> If it looks like this v it means it's balanced cables
> 
> 
> 
> Which is different from the cable you linked


 
  
 Here is a picture of the cable i ordered.


----------



## SilentFrequency

samuel777 said:


> Here is a picture of the cable i ordered.




Looks great 

I think it's not balanced but has different connector from stock hd800 cable which is reason you got it right?


----------



## guido

silentfrequency said:


> Looks great
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 err..it is balanced with a 4 pin XLR


----------



## SilentFrequency

guido said:


> err..it is balanced with a 4 pin XLR




Oh, thanks 

I thought balanced meant you had to have two of the 4 pin XLR connectors. (like the one I posted photo of)


----------



## Blackmore

One of my favorite from Lars


----------



## thomascrown

silentfrequency said:


> Oh, thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 it can be one 4 pin xlr, or 2 with 3 pin xlr (if you check schiit mjolnir outputs, for instance, you can spot the 2 different kind of connectors)


----------



## Blackmore

This one from Chris is superb, period...


----------



## SilentFrequency

thomascrown said:


> it can be one 4 pin xlr, or 2 with 3 pin xlr (if you check the mjolnir outputs you can spot the 2 different kind of connectors)




Thank you


----------



## Blackmore

Check this one for voices. Buddha bar IX - Sospiro - Bardo State
  
  
 THX everyone for sharing, great stuff


----------



## SilentFrequency

blackmore said:


> One of my favorite from Lars




What a great uplifting trk! 

Great bass chords, brush drums (if that's right?) and piano


----------



## Blackmore

Arild Andersen- Maria Pia De Vito - Paolo Fresu - Hyperborean


----------



## potkettleblack

silentfrequency said:


> This trk is sooo amazing with the hd800's


 

 My ears just committed suicide.


----------



## bearFNF

potkettleblack said:


> My ears just committed suicide.



Excuse me for being old,but does that mean you like it or hate it? 

I'm at work so have not listened to it yet.


----------



## potkettleblack

bearfnf said:


> Excuse me for being old,but does that mean you like it or hate it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ha the latter!


----------



## johnjen

This is the best EDM I've yet found.
  
 http://www.overwerk.com
 https://soundcloud.com/overwerk
  
 Yes it's compressed
 And yes the bass has been limited.
  
 But to my ears it's music first and electronic second.
  
 JJ


----------



## SilentFrequency

potkettleblack said:


> My ears just committed suicide.




It's a totally sick track if that's what you mean then I totally get you


----------



## SilentFrequency

potkettleblack said:


> Ha the latter!




Oh, I guess I don't get you at all


----------



## kapanak

People have different taste in music. I found that track to be quite fun to listen to


----------



## skeptic

guido said:


> I think he ordered the balanced cable...so it probably will sound different...whether the cable is good or not one can only speculate..


 
  
 You read this a lot, but what most people are probably hearing is the differences between the se and balanced circuits in their amps.  In summary, push pull amps have more power and double the slew rate on their balanced jacks, but also more noise, distortion (except for common mode) and double the output impedance.  
  
 Purrin and others have demonstrated that hd800's mid-bass varies directly with amplifier output impedance - i.e. listeners running balanced on push pull or bridged amps are all giving themselves a mild form of bass boost when using that jack.  I suspect this is one of the more easily audible aspects of "going balanced" with these headphones that inspires many of the positive impressions we end up reading.


----------



## atistatic

IMHO, Rhapsody of Fire and Luca's Turilli Rhapsody make the best music to test the soundstage of HD800 ... cuz they arrange a large orchesta and choir also electric guitar, bass, drum and keyboard each time that they make a album like in this MV, the best part is their music is like "Saga" like Lord of the Rings, Hobbits, etc...


----------



## LugBug1

Still no want for another headphone (2 years after purchase).
  
 It's nice to know that your speaker/transducer is better than your source..  That way you always get the best out of your gear!


----------



## RUMAY408

If you like two HP's to complement each other, might I suggest the LCD3F.  The 3F is strong in areas the HD800 is weaker at.
  
 After about 30 hours with the 3F I am convinced that this is the best bass I have ever heard out of an HP. The 3F does bass like the HD800 does with imaging.  No knock on the HD800, I love that HP which I will never ever sell, but bass extension and harder Rock is just not what the HD800 is about.


----------



## kimvictor

I don't see Carat Topaz being mentioned as a good match for HD800(Anax Modded), but I can confirm that they are a rather good match. The DAC section seem to be better, but the amp is also well suited for HD800. For ~$300 price range, it's pretty damn good for the HD800.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Styleaudio-CARAT-TOPAZ-portable-Hi-Fi-USB-DAC-Headphone-AMP-for-music-/120944864022


----------



## akhyar

rumay408 said:


> If you like two HP's to complement each other, might I suggest the LCD3F.  The 3F is strong in areas the HD800 is weaker at.
> 
> After about 30 hours with the 3F I am convinced that this is the best bass I have ever heard out of an HP. The 3F does bass like the HD800 does with imaging.  No knock on the HD800, I love that HP which I will never ever sell, but bass extension and harder Rock is just not what the HD800 is about.


 
  
 I do like the LCD-3, but I prefer the Classic over the new Fazor to complement the HD800.
 So much so that I sold my LCD-X and hunting for an LCD-3C right now


----------



## RUMAY408

akhyar said:


> I do like the LCD-3, but I prefer the Classic over the new Fazor to complement the HD800.
> So much so that I sold my LCD-X and hunting for an LCD-3C right now


 

 Now that is interesting!  I have heard so much mixed, with most on the LCD3 thread liking the F>C but older HP versions often end up a winner in the long run Grado HP2>PS1000


----------



## Mach3

rumay408 said:


> Now that is interesting!  I have heard so much mixed, with most on the LCD3 thread liking the F>C but older HP versions often end up a winner in the long run Grado HP2>PS1000


 
  
 For people enjoying the darker sound will prefer the LCD3C (Non fazor). This is generally consensus with people who will generally dislike the HD800.
 I was about to sell LCD3C until Audeze replaced my drivers with fazor because mine had faulty drivers. I much prefer the enhanced micro detail of the LCD3F (So ended up keeping them, plus I like to collection headphones)
  
 Even so with the my new LCD3F I still prefer my HD800 over them. If you ask me why so, it because in my opinion. The HD800 creates the most natural and real sound true to the original artist intention. <-- I'm only mainly talking about high quality recording of course, not the majority of main stream pop, rnb etc.


----------



## Samuel777

Hello,
 I have received my new Brand HD 800 30min ago now.
 Amp centrence > AK120 II > HD 800 : Could not expect better than what i'm hearing.
 For me the stock cable is enough, when i connect the OCC copper cable (balanced XL4) i ordered, i can't heard any difference with the stock cable.
 so i will return the Copper OCC cable to the supplier and keep the HD as made by senneiheser.
 while writing, this message, i'm listening a song (don't miss you at all) of NORAH JONES : it like i'm reaching the door of paradise , Alexis Cole :  A kiss in the dark : i enjoy so much...
 I would like to share but, i'm so far from most of you, that i can't. ...
  
 Only one thing remain : to get a good adaptator from the 1/4" of stock cable to the entry 1/8" of my AK in case i don't want to use the amp, and if i want to use the headphone with my mackbook pro. do you have a link for me ?
  
 thx


----------



## magiccabbage

rumay408 said:


> If you like two HP's to complement each other, might I suggest the LCD3F.  The 3F is strong in areas the HD800 is weaker at.
> 
> After about 30 hours with the 3F I am convinced that this is the best bass I have ever heard out of an HP. The 3F does bass like the HD800 does with imaging.  No knock on the HD800, I love that HP which I will never ever sell, but bass extension and harder Rock is just not what the HD800 is about.


 
 Good stuff - I will have the LCD3F here soon. Its nice to hear that it sounds good with rock music


----------



## kazsud

Has anyone disassembled their hd800 or know where instructions are doing so?
 I can't seem to find any online. I bought a new headband piece and only see a tiny torqes screw head filled w/ glue.


----------



## SilentFrequency

samuel777 said:


> Hello,
> I have received my new Brand HD 800 30min ago now.
> Amp centrence > AK120 II > HD 800 : Could not expect better than what i'm hearing.
> *For me the stock cable is enough, when i connect the OCC copper cable (balanced XL4) i ordered, i can't heard any difference with the stock cable.
> ...




I thought *that* may be the case as I asked other members before as to what the difference was between Sennheiser balanced cables which are really quite expensive, compared to the stock cables provided and the responses I received were pretty much with your experience.


----------



## rgs9200m

skeptic said:


> You read this a lot, but what most people are probably hearing is the differences between the se and balanced circuits in their amps.  In summary, push pull amps have more power and double the slew rate on their balanced jacks, but also more noise, distortion (except for common mode) and double the output impedance.
> 
> Purrin and others have demonstrated that hd800's mid-bass varies directly with amplifier output impedance - i.e. listeners running balanced on push pull or bridged amps are all giving themselves a mild form of bass boost when using that jack.  I suspect this is one of the more easily audible aspects of "going balanced" with these headphones that inspires many of the positive impressions we end up reading.


 
 That's interesting. My HD800 sounds nicer now that I have gone balanced with Senn's balanced (4-pin XLR) cable on my Pinnacle. It is less acidic, in fact, fairly mellow.
 Also, can anyone comment on why using the reverse polarity selection on my cd player also makes things more relaxed (especially in vocals, taking an edge off them nicely while keeping the bass intact)?
 (I have an EMM cd player.)


----------



## SilentFrequency

rgs9200m said:


> That's interesting. My HD800 sounds nicer now that I have gone balanced with Senn's balanced (4-pin XLR) cable on my Pinnacle. It is less acidic, in fact, fairly mellow.




Good for you


----------



## Blackmore

Maybe your cable need to burn in first, before you know for sure.


----------



## skeptic

rgs9200m said:


> That's interesting. My HD800 sounds nicer now that I have gone balanced with Senn's balanced (4-pin XLR) cable on my Pinnacle. It is less acidic, in fact, fairly mellow.
> Also, can anyone comment on why using the reverse polarity selection on my cd player also makes things more relaxed (especially in vocals, taking an edge off them nicely while keeping the bass intact)?
> (I have an EMM cd player.)




Unless I'm mistaken, the pinnacle is a set amp that uses center tapped output transformers to produce a true balanced output (just like my mainline), as opposed to being a 4 channel push pull circuit. So none of what I posted above should really apply in your case - i.e. power, slew, noise, impedance etc. should be the same on both of your amp's outputs. That said, a lot of folks, including the guys at bh, still believe their balanced outputs sound ever so slighty better than se, even on set amps, for reasons "they cant quite explain." So I suspect there is something to it even if it isnt immediately obvious from the output specs, as in the case of differences heard with 4 channel amps.


----------



## potkettleblack

Can anybody share their opinions on the WA7 fireflies with the HD800?
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## reemo

kazsud said:


> Has anyone disassembled their hd800 or know where instructions are doing so?
> I can't seem to find any online. I bought a new headband piece and only see a tiny torqes screw head filled w/ glue.


 
 I just pulled mine and pressed it back again. Same goes for ear pads, snap out and snap in. Hope this helps.
  
 I had hard time getting the cable off since some instruction said it needs to be twisted, took a long time until i realised that i just need to pull it 
  
 Sennheiser should have proper instructions with the retail box.


----------



## mikemercer

potkettleblack said:


> Can anybody share their opinions on the WA7 fireflies with the HD800?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
 That pairing, along with my ALO Studio Six, actually brought my appreciation of the HD800s to a wholly new level (no pun intended on "appreciation")!
  
 And as of this moment - the WA7 Fireflies is my favorite amp pairing for my 800s! And I can't wait to get the tube power supply (@warrenpchi and I will be reviewing that system for Audio360.org ASAP - after all our CES Report commitments have been met) - as I heard the WA7 w/ the tube supply at Canjam, and I think it will magnify what I felt was missing in my HD800s until the Studio Six and WA7 punched it through: And that's soul, and a full-bodied mid-band and lower mid-range as well!
  
 I always enjoyed my HD800s incredible soundstaging and holographic imaging - sonic attributes that I have yet to hear an equal for em (Stax 009s and Audeze LCD-3F get close, IMO - but don't quite get there). The whole experience of the 800s is something I've enjoyed - meaning how they look, fit, AND sound! They're also resolving enough that, next to my Audezes, when I change cables out, or change a component up-stream, I can hear a difference instantly! So they have provided me with some grand hifi experiences, but I always felt there was something lacking, and it was something I couldn't quite put my finger on - from a technical standpoint: I mean, how do you quantify soul? The only thing I could put my finger on technically was what I referred to above: The mid-range and lower-midrange. I just never really heard them pop in that area until I paired em with the Studio Six and the WA7...

  
 But that combo is magic to my ears! Especially with a set of Double Helix Cables Molecule Elite or Comp4 Extreme!!
  
 This combo, for me, produces amazing sound-staging and the imaging I referred to above, along with wonderfully rounded and full-bodied mids, highs AND lows!
This was especially true recently - when I was reviewing the new Yo La Tengo record _Extra Painful (_a Deluxe 2XLP Re-issue)for Headphone.Guru:
  
 Review HERE if anybodies interested
  
Using my VPI Traveler turntable w/ Ortofon 2MBlue cartridge
Gingko Audio Cloud 9T iso-base
Unison Research Simply Phono tube phonostage 
into the WA7 Fireflies - 
  
(also used my MacBook Pro/Amarra Symphony for the FLAC version,)
into my McIntosh D100 DAC - into the WA7)
  
Man, it sounded so fluid, so tactile, and wide-open, it was a glorious listening sesh (w/ the LP)! That record is the Yo La Tengo I LOVE: Ambient and colorful, wispy and laid-back (with the exception of a couple of tracks that were more aggressive - but still pop) and the HD800s and WA7 combo was so seductive the review just flowed... And I love it when that happens. I HIGHLY recommend that pairing!!


----------



## potkettleblack

mikemercer said:


> That pairing, along with my ALO Studio Six, actually brought my appreciation of the HD800s to a wholly new level (no pun intended on "appreciation")!
> 
> And as of this moment - the WA7 Fireflies is my favorite amp pairing for my 800s! And I can't wait to get the tube power supply (@warrenpchi and I will be reviewing that system for Audio360.org ASAP - after all our CES Report commitments have been met) - as I heard the WA7 w/ the tube supply at Canjam, and I think it will magnify what I felt was missing in my HD800s until the Studio Six and WA7 punched it through: And that's soul, and a full-bodied mid-band and lower mid-range as well!
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you for such a great, passionate response. Please bare in mind I am VERY to this, especially with amps.
  
 I currently use a JDS labs o2 (I know how that is frowned upon round this neck of the woods), and I've enjoyed everyday I've had the 800's - but I am well and truly in the vortex of upgradeitis now so I'm looking into the WA7.
  
 I know little to nothing about amps - never mind tube amps, but I've ready many positive things about woo audio and I'm very interested to see how they can make my 800's sing.
  
 I heard a cambridge audio amp today (I didn't get the model), and though it fascinated me how different it sounded compared to my o2 I didn't feel inclined to save up for it.
  
 I'm happy with the DAC on my macbook pro mid 2014 (soon to be the new 12 inch air - so the DACS should be the same), so is it possible to get the WA7 as a stand alone amp and not DAC to save a bit of money?
  
 Tube rolling is also something I know nothing about so would the stock tubes still be very satisfying?


----------



## lin0003

Has anyone tried the Talisman T-35HP? It is actually really good with the HD800, for the size it is remarkable.


----------



## RUMAY408

magiccabbage said:


> Good stuff - I will have the LCD3F here soon. Its nice to hear that it sounds good with rock music


 

 The LCD3F does bass as well as the HD800 does mids, a totally different signature.


----------



## Saeglopur

traehekat said:


> Looking at cables, looking for some suggestions. Mostly looking at Toxic Cables or Moon Audio. Any thoughts between the two? Also if I find the HD800 a touch bright I should probably go with copper rather than silver, right? Thanks!


 

 I found this pretty helpful


----------



## mikemercer

potkettleblack said:


> Thank you for such a great, passionate response. Please bare in mind I am VERY to this, especially with amps.
> 
> I currently use a JDS labs o2 (I know how that is frowned upon round this neck of the woods), and I've enjoyed everyday I've had the 800's - but I am well and truly in the vortex of upgradeitis now so I'm looking into the WA7.
> 
> ...


 
 I don't think the you can get a WA7 w/o their internal DAC - and though it might be the weak-link of the component - it's not really a bad-sounding DAC  - just didn't meet the expectations of many of us. It should (IMO) out-perform the DAC in your laptop - I'm pretty freakin' certain on that.
  
 As for the tubes - as was said by my partner in Audio360.org and dear friend @warrenpchi in our 6-way review of the WA7:
 IF you can swing it - I also consider the upgraded tubes a MUST. The difference in sound is remarkable - from overall dynamic gestalt to detail retrieval, soundstaging, timbre reproduction, air and dimensionality, pull that trigger (again, IF you can).
  
 However, if you can't swing the upgraded tubes - the stock tubes still make for an exceptional performer in the WA7 Fireflies!!
 I don't think you'd regret making this move!!


----------



## skeptic

potkettleblack said:


> Can anybody share their opinions on the WA7 fireflies with the HD800?
> 
> Thanks in advance.




It sure is a gorgeous dac amp combo, and the positive reviews and enthusiasm exhibited by Mike and the audio360 crew almost have me ready to pull out my credit card as well (when the last thing I need is another amp). Just by way of counterpoint though, since you have indicated you are new to headamps, you might also check out the reviews on headfonia, use the search function within this thread for wa7, read through the comments on chang* and even the reddit thread discussing the wa7 and hd800s. In short, there are a fair number of posters and prior owners who have suggested better sonics can be had for less money, albeit in less attractive and / or less compact form factors. This makes perfect economic sense and it is nothing against woo. Case work like that really does cost substantial money and may represent half the ticket price if the amp. But alternate options running higher end components, like film caps etc., may (or may not) be a better value proposition.


----------



## mikemercer

sorrodje said:


> I'm listening a lot of EDM and I wouldn't use another headphone than the HD800 but as Hekeli previously said, there're many different styles in Electronic music.
> 
> I'm more into this Kind  of Music :
> 
> ...




 NICE!!
 I LOVE the new Recondite album!!
 Just reviewed it for Positive Feedback HERE
  
 Excellent on the HD800s
  
  


traehekat said:


> Looking at cables, looking for some suggestions. Mostly looking at Toxic Cables or Moon Audio. Any thoughts between the two? Also if I find the HD800 a touch bright I should probably go with copper rather than silver, right? Thanks!


 
 For my HD800s - My current faves are Double Helix Cables Molecule Elite,
 or the Wywires Red Headphone cables series (not gonna break the bank)


----------



## Mach3

lin0003 said:


> Has anyone tried the Talisman T-35HP? It is actually really good with the HD800, for the size it is remarkable.




How does it compare to the V200, in your opinion which of the 2 Amp is a better matching with the HD800


----------



## lin0003

mach3 said:


> How does it compare to the V200, in your opinion which of the 2 Amp is a better matching with the HD800


 
 I like the Talisman a lot more, it is much more neutral and instead of having a warm sound and somewhat slow bass like the V200, it has a nice solid punch is very fast. I would say it is very slightly bass heavy.


----------



## SilentFrequency

Sorrodje mikemercer

The new Röyksopp Album - "The Inevitable End" is pretty amazing on the HD800's IMO, but if you two guys have any recs for Artists like this, Iffy and Ratio Smatio, then I'm totally all ears! 

First trk on new Röyksopp album is "Skulls" and is so awesome 


[VIDEO]http://youtu.be/IlCQP4GnpXk[/VIDEO]

Thanks,

SF


----------



## Sorrodje

@SilentFrequency : There is so much music to discover.  One of the best way to discover a lot of good Electronic music is  to give a listen to the Fabric Albums : https://www.fabriclondon.com/store/fabric-products.html . Resident Advisor is a good source too.  You can follow the Gigantic and insightful " what are you listening now" thread on Head-fi.  I have a last.fm profile and Last.fm gave me recommendations based on what i listen


----------



## SilentFrequency

sorrodje said:


> @SilentFrequency
> : There is so much music to discover.  On of the best way to discover a lot of good Electronic music is  to give a listen to the Fabric Albums : https://www.fabriclondon.com/store/fabric-products.html . Resident Advisor is a good source too.  You can follow th Gigantic and insightful " what are you listening now" thread on Head-fi.  I have a last.fm profile and Last.fm gave me recommendations based on what i listen




That's awesome of you, as I love discovering great new music 

Thanks so much


----------



## Samuel777

This song is awesome with HD800. the bass and sub-bass are splendide from AK120 II and HD800
  
 :


----------



## potkettleblack

Thanks mate I'll take a look


----------



## freddr

Have anyone tried HD800 with the new Modi 2/Magni 2 Uber?


----------



## RRod

freddr said:


> Have anyone tried HD800 with the new Modi 2/Magni 2 Uber?


 
  
 It works great with the Modi1/Magni1 combo, so I can't see the upgrade hurting.


----------



## kazsud

reemo said:


> I just pulled mine and pressed it back again. Same goes for ear pads, snap out and snap in. Hope this helps.
> 
> I had hard time getting the cable off since some instruction said it needs to be twisted, took a long time until i realised that i just need to pull it
> 
> Sennheiser should have proper instructions with the retail box.




The whole headband not the padding.


----------



## SilentFrequency

kazsud said:


> The whole headband not the padding.




Maybe you should just take it to an authorised Sennheiser dealer for fixing your new headband to your hd800's?


----------



## johnjen

kazsud said:


> The whole headband not the padding.


 
  
 I don't know if this is what will help you, but…
  
 The entire headband connects to each 'ear pad assembly' by using a 'pin' that can be 'popped' out from 'underneath'.
  
 These pins are the metal 'pivot' points that each ear pad rotates around as the ear pad assemblies conform to your head.
 You can see the top of each pin on the ends of the 'attachment arms' that is part of the ear pad assembly, while looking down on the top of the headphones. They are ≈ 0.5cm in diameter and stick up above the 'attachment arms' just slightly.
  
 Once these pins are pushed out from underneath (be careful, there is a spring inside the 'cavity' that you do NOT want to lose), you will have 2 ear pad assemblies and the head band as separate pieces, along with 2 pins and 2 springs.
  
 I hope this is what you are wanting to do.
  
 JJ


----------



## potkettleblack

Oh praise the baby jesus -  listen to these on the HD800's!
  
 All tracks:
  
 http://www.hdtracks.co.uk/audiophile-picks/there-s-a-time-134424
  
 ''you shook me":
  
 http://www.hdtracks.co.uk/bring-it-on-home-134499
  
  
 "me missin' you":
  
 http://www.hdtracks.co.uk/audiophile-picks/hobo
  
 I must be 50 hours in and I'm still constantly amazed with these headphones.


----------



## kimvictor

Listen to HD800 with live recordings. Holy crap.


----------



## kazsud

johnjen said:


> I don't know if this is what will help you, but…
> 
> The entire headband connects to each 'ear pad assembly' by using a 'pin' that can be 'popped' out from 'underneath'.
> 
> ...




Yes and thank you


----------



## pearljam50000

I think that what's really special about the HD800 is that with every other headphone I tried(and speakers), it felt like listening to recorded music from headphones, and with the HD800 it feels you are just hearing the sound itself,and there is nothing between you and the sound(it's very hard to describe).


----------



## SuperU

skeptic said:


> It sure is a gorgeous dac amp combo, and the positive reviews and enthusiasm exhibited by Mike and the audio360 crew almost have me ready to pull out my credit card as well (when the last thing I need is another amp). Just by way of counterpoint though, since you have indicated you are new to headamps, you might also check out the reviews on headfonia, use the search function within this thread for wa7, read through the comments on chang* and even the reddit thread discussing the wa7 and hd800s. In short, there are a fair number of posters and prior owners who have suggested better sonics can be had for less money, albeit in less attractive and / or less compact form factors. This makes perfect economic sense and it is nothing against woo. Case work like that really does cost substantial money and may represent half the ticket price if the amp. But alternate options running higher end components, like film caps etc., may (or may not) be a better value proposition.


 
 Would love to read some suggestions along the lines of better value propositions. Can you list some? If this is not the place, feel free to PM me.


----------



## potkettleblack

I emailed toxic cables to enquire about the below.
  

  
 They quoted me 680 pounds = 1027 dollars for 6 feet.
  
 What planet do they reside on?


----------



## Zoom25

potkettleblack said:


> I emailed toxic cables to enquire about the below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Cable really matches the HD800...but 1027 for a 6 feet cable! That's basically a used HD800.


----------



## potkettleblack

zoom25 said:


> Cable really matches the HD800...but 1027 for a 6 feet cable! That's basically a used HD800.


 

 Looks beautiful, right. Yes it is. How utterly absurd to price something like that and say ''it's difficult to make'' to justify the price.


----------



## kapanak

potkettleblack said:


> I emailed toxic cables to enquire about the below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The planet where snake oil peddling is an accepted norm.


----------



## potkettleblack

kapanak said:


> The planet where snake oil peddling is an accepted norm.


----------



## icebear

potkettleblack said:


> I emailed toxic cables to enquire about the below.
> 
> They quoted me 680 pounds = 1027 dollars for 6 feet.
> 
> What planet do they reside on?


 
 LOL, I needed a 14ft cable and pretty quickly after "shopping around" I arrived at Norne Audio.
 I ended up with a Norne Vanquish for my HD800 and I like sound, handling, built quality and price.
 14ft from the usual suspects would have cost more than the headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## kapanak

icebear said:


> LOL, I needed a 14ft cable and pretty quickly after "shopping around" I arrived at Norne Audio.
> I ended up with a Norne Vanquish for my HD800 and I like sound, handling, built quality and price.
> 14ft from the usual suspects would have cost more than the headphone
> 
> ...


 

 I also recommend Norne Audio for very attractive, high quality construction cables without the insane pricing. The cables are also highly customizable in terms of choices for connectors and colours and splitters, and still within reasonable pricing (just a bit over buying a replacement stock cable).


----------



## Zoom25

You guys are really making me consider the Draug 2. So is Draug 2 the best Norne cable for HD800? I went to the site and saw a few models but didn't really know which ones would be suitable for HD800 or what the differences exactly are and what they mean.


----------



## MattTCG

The Draug 2 is outstanding with the hd800 from my experience.


----------



## magiccabbage

matttcg said:


> The Draug 2 is outstanding with the hd800 from my experience.


 
 is it really a noticeable difference from the stock cable? I should trust you Matt but just asking anyway - how much does the cable go for?


----------



## whirlwind

zoom25 said:


> You guys are really making me consider the Draug 2. So is Draug 2 the best Norne cable for HD800? I went to the site and saw a few models but didn't really know which ones would be suitable for HD800 or what the differences exactly are and what they mean.


 
 It is a great cable....I have not stop listening since I got mine , about a week ago.


----------



## Justin_Time

magiccabbage said:


> is it really a noticeable difference from the stock cable? I should trust you Matt but just asking anyway - how much does the cable go for?



Since this is all subjective, I can only relate my experience.

The magnitude of changes to any of the top headphones to me can be described as small but audible. I have yet to hear a huge improvement with cables.

The biggest change for me is with the Anaxilus modification which takes a lot of the HD800 tendencies for sibilants and brightness in the treble away.

The second largest change is with the choice of DAC and amp.

The smallest but still audible change is with the cable. 

My experience is with the Toxic Cables products. I tried the most transparent cable available at the time, the Silver Widow (OCC pure silver + gold + cryogenic) and the result was in the wrong direction. I found the match for the HD800 with the Copper Venom (OCC copper, big gauge, cryogenic) with a fuller bass and smoother albeit ever so slightly less detailed treble. The failed combinations--and ther were many more than I discussed--convinced me it was not a placebo effect. Good cables will go for $250 to $500 depending on length and connectors.


----------



## Zoom25

Thanks for the feedback guys. I don't have to make a huge leap of faith as I used to own a Norse Audio cable for Audeze's before. So this will be the last time I will ask about Draug 2
  
 1) How long is the wait time?
  
 2) How does the sound signature compare to the stock HD800 cable?
  
 3) Lightweight enough so it doesn't feel it's tugging down?
  
 I think I am going for a 6 foot cable.


----------



## icebear

Why don't you check here :
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/606500/norne-audio-was-norse-audio-feedback-impression-thread
  
 and ask Trevor directly, specificly on the wait time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Zoom25

icebear said:


> Why don't you check here :
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/606500/norne-audio-was-norse-audio-feedback-impression-thread
> 
> and ask Trevor directly, specificly on the wait time
> ...


 

 Thanks for the link!


----------



## MattTCG

magiccabbage said:


> is it really a noticeable difference from the stock cable? I should trust you Matt but just asking anyway - how much does the cable go for?


 
  
 Unquestionably better than the stock cable IMHO. I first tried this cable at a meet with another members hd800. Then I bought one for myself. The cable is not microphonic or heavy, but is light and mostly flexible. It is rather thick but has to be because of the construction and type. I feel the price is quite reasonable for the performance and build quality. I feel that some cable companies have gone completely insane and are asking ludicrous pricing for cables. But hey, if you can get somebody to pay for then....


----------



## Mach3

justin_time said:


> Since this is all subjective, I can only relate my experience.
> 
> The magnitude of changes to any of the top headphones to me can be described as small but audible. I have yet to hear a huge improvement with cables.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Anaxilus mod definitely makes the most different compare to cable from my own personal experience.


----------



## kapanak

whirlwind said:


> It is a great cable....I have not stop listening since I got mine , about a week ago.


 

 A really beautiful cable XD How flexible is it compared to the stock? I find the stock a little unwieldy.
  
 Also, could you tell me the exact specifications of your choices for that cable?  Thank you!


----------



## RUMAY408

The Draug2 is a nice upgrade over stock but I can't claim that I have had multiple cables for comparison.
 Norne had samples at the last meet and Matt was kind enough to help me with the re-cable.
 Thank you Matt and hope to see you at the next meet


----------



## yzhengyu

For aftermarket cables for the HD800, I have the Draug v2 terminating in 4-pin XLR with 6.35mm adaptor - which I bought - and APureSound v3 cable terminating in 6.35mm - which I received for free as part of the HD800 promo I got. As far as I know, the former is pure copper while the latter is silver plated copper. I only bought the former as I intend to get a balanced amp in the future and the latter wasn't XLR.
  
 I can only tell the difference between them on some of the more "loud" tracks I have - in that scenario, the Draug v2 comes across as slightly less strident than the latter. I must confess that I cannot discern any significant bass differences. Overall, I consider both to suit my tastes better than the stock HD800 cable on my current audio stack. 
  
 Let me just state that I am still amused I can hear the difference between cables, even when all existing measurements and theory indicate there shouldn't be any. Before committing to a massive purchase, I would advise people to audition an aftermarket cable with the existing stock HD800 cable. If you can't hear any difference, there's no point to purchasing one.


----------



## SuperU

Does anyone have the Schiit Asgard 2/Bifrost Uber and use it with your HD800?
  
 Is there enough power to drive them with this combination?


----------



## RRod

superu said:


> Does anyone have the Schiit Asgard 2/Bifrost Uber and use it with your HD800?
> 
> Is there enough power to drive them with this combination?


 
  
 More than enough, even on low gain.


----------



## RUMAY408

yzhengyu said:


> For aftermarket cables for the HD800, I have the Draug v2 terminating in 4-pin XLR with 6.35mm adaptor - which I bought - and APureSound v3 cable terminating in 6.35mm - which I received for free as part of the HD800 promo I got. As far as I know, the former is pure copper while the latter is silver plated copper. I only bought the former as I intend to get a balanced amp in the future and the latter wasn't XLR.
> 
> I can only tell the difference between them on some of the more "loud" tracks I have - in that scenario, the Draug v2 comes across as slightly less strident than the latter. I must confess that I cannot discern any significant bass differences. Overall, I consider both to suit my tastes better than the stock HD800 cable on my current audio stack.
> 
> Let me just state that I am still amused I can hear the difference between cables, even when all existing measurements and theory indicate there shouldn't be any. Before committing to a massive purchase, I would advise people to audition an aftermarket cable with the existing stock HD800 cable. If you can't hear any difference, there's no point to purchasing one.


 

 I honestly was a non-believer, but after reading David Mahlers 58 flagship HP thread, it dawned on me "dude knows audio," when he said the HD800 is an HP that responds to a cable upgrade, I thought it was worth a try.


----------



## longbowbbs

rumay408 said:


> yzhengyu said:
> 
> 
> > For aftermarket cables for the HD800, I have the Draug v2 terminating in 4-pin XLR with 6.35mm adaptor - which I bought - and APureSound v3 cable terminating in 6.35mm - which I received for free as part of the HD800 promo I got. As far as I know, the former is pure copper while the latter is silver plated copper. I only bought the former as I intend to get a balanced amp in the future and the latter wasn't XLR.
> ...


 
 I really like my new Toxic Cables 22ga Silver Widow cables. I have the previous version too in balanced and they suit me well. I also really enjoyed the Nordost Heimdall 2 cables. A bit darker. Sometimes the HD800 can benefit from that.


----------



## whirlwind

rumay408 said:


> yzhengyu said:
> 
> 
> > For aftermarket cables for the HD800, I have the Draug v2 terminating in 4-pin XLR with 6.35mm adaptor - which I bought - and APureSound v3 cable terminating in 6.35mm - which I received for free as part of the HD800 promo I got. As far as I know, the former is pure copper while the latter is silver plated copper. I only bought the former as I intend to get a balanced amp in the future and the latter wasn't XLR.
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## zilch0md

My HD800 is happier than ever...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/529140/show-us-your-head-fi-station-at-its-current-state-no-old-pictures-please/19380#post_11242344


----------



## yzhengyu

A picture of my current setup with the new Draug v2 cable. I do most of my listening at my desk, so the basic, default length is more than sufficient for me.


----------



## lextek

yzhengyu said:


> A picture of my current setup with the new Draug v2 cable. I do most of my listening at my desk, so the basic, default length is more than sufficient for me.



how is the HD800 with the Ifi ?


----------



## yzhengyu

lextek said:


> how is the HD800 with the Ifi ?


 
  
 Pretty good. This is the iDSD micro, so at normal mode and with ie match turned off, there's plenty of power for the HD800 and the HD650 before it. I do have to state up front that for me, the volume pot stays between 9 and 10 o'clock for most of the modern pop stuff and 12 o'clock for classical and live recordings. Anything more and the funky FR curve of the HD800 will start to kick in and murder my ears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Based on some research, I am currently waiting for a Valhalla 2 to see if I can hear any long term differences between solid state / tubes.


----------



## pearljam50000

Is anyone selling their HD800's and buy the HE1000's instead?


----------



## Sorrodje

pearljam50000 said:


> Is anyone selling their HD800's and buy the HE1000's instead?


 
  
 Yup . sure. My HD800 is already sold. But I've the worst difficulties to find a place to buy the HE-1000 and even to find its price. Would you be kind enough to give all informations I need ?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 Seriously ...


----------



## Blackmore

Some speculations flying around by saying USD5k, but I dont know of its true or not.
  
 Why dont you send an email to Hifiman?
  
  
  
 Quote:


sorrodje said:


> Yup . sure. My HD800 is already sold. But I've the worst difficulties to find a place to buy the HE-1000 and even to find its price. Would you be kind enough to give all informations I need ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Sorrodje

I was Joking


----------



## kothganesh

sorrodje said:


> I was Joking


 

 You sold it with the Anax 3.0 right?


----------



## Mach3

Moon audio had them advertised for $2499. But the link has been taken down.


----------



## Blackmore

My guess is that Hifiman will promote them first and then, after feedbacks, price them accordingly, but wouldn’t surprise me if the price going to be that high or higher.
 
THX
  
 Quote:


mach3 said:


> Moon audio had them advertised for $2499. But the link has been taken down.


----------



## icebear

blackmore said:


>


 
 Dr. Fang as of Saturday has not even made up his mind if he will be selling it paired with the amp only or if the HE1000 will be available separately. He will still modify the HE1000 even though most people are already completely in heaven about it, he made comments that there are areas he still wants to improve. There is no way that he himself has a realistic figure already what the production cost of the phones will be and what consequently the sales price will be.
  


mach3 said:


> Moon audio had them advertised for $2499. But the link has been taken down.


 
 I guess that was just a screwed marketing move to test the waters ...


----------



## Blackmore

I am perfectly fine with this, and yes, I follow HE1000 thread as well.
  
 THX
  
  
 Quote:


icebear said:


> Dr. Fang as of Saturday has not even made up his mind if he will be selling it paired with the amp only or if the HE1000 will be available separately. He will still modify the HE1000 even though most people are already completely in heaven about it, he made comments that there are areas he still wants to improve. There is no way that he himself has a realistic figure already what the production cost of the phones will be and what consequently the sales price will be.
> 
> I guess that was just a screwed marketing move to test the waters ...


----------



## freedom01

Moved on from iFi micro iDSD to Schiit
 Schiit in, Schiit out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Very impressed by the Bifrost Uber/USB + Valhalla2
 Great option without breaking the bank.


----------



## Sorrodje

@Blackmore & icebear : Yup . I'm in the same page. this is a prototype. No idea of the production cost = No idea of the price.  Fang Bian is a good salesman and he 's stiring up the hype by allowing people to try a prototype. It's a really good strategy because the product seems very good as we can expect when money is no object.  I would be curious to know how much cost this Headphone and especially this so thin diaphragm.
  
 That been said , I have a love/hate relationship with Hifiman products. I loved the HE-4 I owned. I hated the HE-400 ( treble spike killed me) . i liked the HE-500 I tried at a meet and hated the HE560 I heard at another one ( definitely too agressive sound sig for my tastes). So I don't really don't know what to expect from this project. As you all , I'm following the HE-1000 story while I'm enjoying music with old and out of date HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Right now I'm more interested in the Yggdrasil as my next big purchase and maybe a DNA Stratus or a EC BalancingAct in next years . I'd like to have some serious comparison from someone who compared closely those too amps with  HD800 and some other headphones.


----------



## subtle

pearljam50000 said:


> Is anyone selling their HD800's and buy the HE1000's instead?


 
  
 Negative Ghostrider.


----------



## bargyu

No real comparison (just the stock 6.3mm jack, which is far, far away), so does not matter much, but after some burn in time I like the Nordost Heimdall 2 XLR-4 cable with my HD800. (dac is Calyx 24/192 and amp HDVD-800, balanced mode through xlr-3) I was looking for a cable that first of all goes deeper and bass is also louder. I was missing deep bass a lot and I am not a bass lover at all, just music sounded without a base and cut down at bass level.These cables are thin, especially compared to most other aftermarket cables, so I feared that they will simply not do the job. My top wish is to listen to the Helix Double 4 cable, which is 7 bundles of copper and 7 bundles of silver, so maybe best of both worlds. But, there is no dealer here in Hungary. I listened to the Nordost and had the feeling that probably it could be up to the job. Nordost says it is one of the most difficult cable to produce. One thin aramid (similar to kevlar or dyneema, a very strong rope) line is running in the center to make the cable stronger against physical impacts, so you can imagine that the cable is thin even for Nordost. I am not a specialist at all, just found some information that thin wires may help to avoid the skin effect and that the low power (mW) makes headphone cables difficult to manufacture, it is bit similar to manufacturing phono cables. I would be curious how it compares to others if someone had the opportunity to compare. Tks.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

yzhengyu said:


> A picture of my current setup with the new Draug v2 cable. I do most of my listening at my desk, so the basic, default length is more than sufficient for me.


 
  
 I love this setup too:
  

  
  
 HD800 + custom cable + iFi micro iDSD = win win combo


----------



## kimvictor

h1f1add1cted said:


> I love this setup too:
> 
> 
> HD800 + custom cable + iFi micro iDSD = win win combo


 
 Huh an otg set up... I was thinking about that.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am loving this setup tonight. HD800's with the new Toxic cables SW22's. ifi iDSD Micro and an LH Labs 1G cable. Grooving to 24/96 AIFF via Audirvana+ Rush The Spirit of Radio.


----------



## TsukiNick

Just got them in box, must resist urge to open, must sell them.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

kimvictor said:


> Huh an otg set up... I was thinking about that.


 

 Here more details: http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/5865#post_11120441
  
 256 GB storage is enough space to fit my FLAC collection. No need for dedicated DAP anymore for my needs.


----------



## kimvictor

h1f1add1cted said:


> Here more details: http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/5865#post_11120441
> 
> 256 GB storage is enough space to fit my FLAC collection. No need for dedicated DAP anymore for my needs.


 
 I kind of noticed that OTG lacks quality compared to a USB port from a computer. It sounds more noisy and loose. Maybe I'm hallucinating things.


----------



## vc1187

I was planning on selling my HD800 up until yesterday. While it was a good pairing with the M51 + Zana Deux, I felt like something was missing. 

I performed two changes. First change was a volume control change, which may or may not have affected anything. Went from -20 dB on the M51 and the volume knob turned to 1 dot short of 3/4 turned on the Zana to -28 dB on the M51 and volume knob maxed out on the Zana.

Second change was the Anaxilus mod as described on innerfidelity.com. 
This was probably the game changer, and was incredibly easy, and cheap to do 

The something that was missing is now there. What was missing was impact, treble control, and body to the mids. While the only drastic change seemed to be increased impact, the other little changes are what morphs the HD800 from a great headphone to an amazing headphone. Needless to say, I won't be selling my HD800 anymore, and can now understand where the die hard Zana + HD800 fans are coming from.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

kimvictor said:


> I kind of noticed that OTG lacks quality compared to a USB port from a computer. It sounds more noisy and loose. Maybe I'm hallucinating things.


 
 No, this is really source and software dependent. Get good quality USB OTG cable too, this is also important.

 For example ->

 Sony Z1 compact -> Stock 4.4.4 ROM -> USB OTG -> UAPP -> tried all Buffer settings and options -> iFi micro iDSD = always small glitches, other issues, no good match at all.
  
 Samsung Galaxy S4 -> Custom 4.4.4 GPE ROM -> UBS OTG -> UAPP -> Buffer 16384 frames and other stuff default -> iFi micro iDSD = no glitches perfect sound, I tested successfully upto DXD384 and DSD256 playback, absolute no issues.


----------



## kimvictor

h1f1add1cted said:


> No, this is really source and software dependent. Get good quality USB OTG cable too, this is also important.
> 
> For example ->
> 
> ...


 
 Huh. So HD800 works good with iFi micro iDSD via OTG on your S4? I wonder if LG G3 will support 24bit digital output via OTG.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Please look to my chain - *UAPP* is the shortcut for *U*SB *A*udio *P*layer *P*ro -> http://www.head-fi.org/t/704065/usb-audio-recorder-pro-uapp-24-and-32-bit-playback-ubiquitous-usb-audio-support-for-android
  
 With this nice app is 24bit/192kHz and DSD playback up to DSD256 (dff and dsf files) and DXD384 (wav files) no problem. We don't care about the Anroid 16/48 limit anymore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Btw. your LG G3 is on the supported phone list: http://www.extreamsd.com/USBAudioRecorderPRO/ so you should have a working solution for that.


----------



## kimvictor

h1f1add1cted said:


> Please look to my chain - *UAPP* is the shortcut for *U*SB *A*udio *P*layer *P*ro -> http://www.head-fi.org/t/704065/usb-audio-recorder-pro-uapp-24-and-32-bit-playback-ubiquitous-usb-audio-support-for-android
> 
> With this nice app is 24bit/192kHz and DSD playback up to DSD256 (dff and dsf files) and DXD384 (wav files) no problem. We don't care about the Anroid 16/48 limit anymore.
> 
> Btw. your LG G3 is on the supported phone list: http://www.extreamsd.com/USBAudioRecorderPRO/ so you should have a working solution for that.



Great. And how do they match with HD800(since we're on a HD800 thread)


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Please see: http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/2235#post_11212176
  
 I wrote few months ago that the HD800 and the iDSD is a perfect match with the iFi crossfeed enabled its greater than the HDVD800 amp for classic music listening which I compared.
  
 You can install the trial app of UAPP on your LG G3 to test if that will work like charm or not, try to increase the buffer size in UAPP if you get some glichtes.


----------



## mikemercer

longbowbbs said:


> I am loving this setup tonight. HD800's with the new Toxic cables SW22's. ifi iDSD Micro and an LH Labs 1G cable. Grooving to 24/96 AIFF via Audirvana+ Rush The Spirit of Radio.


 
 IF you would try - give Amarra Symphony a shot there - I LOVE it, especially w/ the iFi Micro!!
  
 and - THIS just sounded, well, SICK!!!!
  

 I really love the sound of the Nordost Heimdall 2 headphone cables on my HD800s!
  
 The Heimdall 2 actually punctuated a few sonic attributes I was personally missing a bit before:
 more forward, but silky midrange, low bass extension, and, also there's a tightness and control to the wider soundstaging w/ the Nordost and most the systems I've tried em with!
  
 and THIS - I just wanted to see if the PS Audio Sprout could drive em! I LOE this lil' thing.
 and it sounded wide-open, dynamic, and colorful and dimensional!
  
 a NICE surprise!!


----------



## akhyar

^ you really tempted me to go for the Heimdall2 cable


----------



## pearljam50000

What's the price of the heimdall 2?
Thanks.


----------



## longbowbbs

mikemercer said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I am loving this setup tonight. HD800's with the new Toxic cables SW22's. ifi iDSD Micro and an LH Labs 1G cable. Grooving to 24/96 AIFF via Audirvana+ Rush The Spirit of Radio.
> ...


 
 I really enjoyed the Heimdall 2's Mike! They are a nice compliment to the Toxic Cables Silver Widow 22's. You make a choice to trade some sparkle at the top for a bit more darkness and substance. Cool side by side. 
  
 You have to love the sprout. I spent some time with it when Scott McGowan and I were in the PS Audio room at RMAF. What a great all in one device. It moved some really solid sound through the HD800's. Nice work with speakers too. the Golden Ear Aon 3's really sang. Enjoy that little box while you can!


----------



## mikemercer

akhyar said:


> ^ you really tempted me to go for the Heimdall2 cable


 

  
 I thought it was great w/ the LCDs...
  
 BUT - w/ my HD800s - its truly transformative!!


----------



## kimvictor

Vali and HD800 are OK. The bass is stronger when compared to a SS amp I have, but the mids seem more grainy... I'll see how this goes.


----------



## scottiebabie

the braided toxic cables sure look purrrty! im only using plain ol cardas but the hd800s do sound great thru the dynahi. extremely detail with a precise & big soundstage. all the micro details one needs with very extended bass (& slam i mite add) but without the harshness/glare/grain associated with SS amps.


----------



## mikemercer

longbowbbs said:


> I really enjoyed the Heimdall 2's Mike! They are a nice compliment to the Toxic Cables Silver Widow 22's. You make a choice to trade some sparkle at the top for a bit more darkness and substance. Cool side by side.
> 
> You have to love the sprout. I spent some time with it when Scott McGowan and I were in the PS Audio room at RMAF. What a great all in one device. It moved some really solid sound through the HD800's. Nice work with speakers too. the Golden Ear Aon 3's really sang. Enjoy that little box while you can!


 
 oh, HELL YEAH!
  
 I gave the PS Audio Sprout a *Writers Choice Award* at PFO for 2014! (you have to scroll down to mine - stinks there isn't a straight-up URL right to it)
  
 You're absolutely right on the money: A KILLER ALL-IN-ONE desktop unit! PERFECT for a college kid: headphone amp/USB DAC/phonostage (and NOT bad one) analog in, and Bluetooth!! 
  
 PLUS - I love the look - if I needed another freakin' desktop unit I'd buy it!! The aesthetics sort of pay homage to classic audio, but it's also contemporary as well.
  
 And: I honestly didn't try my HD800s w/ it for the Award piece!!
 But I wish I had!!
  
 STILL ROCKIN THIS!


----------



## dxanex

pearljam50000 said:


> What's the price of the heimdall 2?
> Thanks.




Googled it. $799...YIKES! :eek:


----------



## lin0003

dxanex said:


> Googled it. $799...YIKES!


 
 Check out some of DHC'c flagship cables


----------



## dxanex

^ Haha, nah I'm good. I got one of the lower end balanced DHC cables in the second hand market for my HD 800, and even that was met with a healthy dose of hesitation. To be fair though it does feel nearly indestructible.


----------



## elvergun

dxanex said:


> Googled it. $799...YIKES!


 
  
 Haha...perfect for the college student (who goes out and robs a bank in order to afford his headphone hobby).


----------



## kimvictor

elvergun said:


> Haha...perfect for the college student (who goes out and robs a bank in order to afford his headphone hobby).


 
 Hehe what about a high school student? God. How did I get myself into this?


----------



## whirlwind

kimvictor said:


> elvergun said:
> 
> 
> > Haha...perfect for the college student (who goes out and robs a bank in order to afford his headphone hobby).
> ...


 
 Just sell a kidney


----------



## longbowbbs

Friday night listening session....


----------



## 62ohm

^Love the Telecaster


----------



## listen4joy

mikemercer you should review the schiit rangaraok i sure sprout and cavali liquid crismon is no match for him! really want to see your comprasion


----------



## lextek

longbowbbs said:


> Friday night listening session....



How are the HDs with the Cary? Years ago I tried dome HD600s with the SLI and remember it sounding pretty, good. What feet is the Mini sitting on?


----------



## longbowbbs

lextek said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Friday night listening session....
> ...


 
 The HD800's work famously with the Cary. I love the combo. It has been my reference for awhile now. The Mac Mini is sitting on a set of Stillpoints Ultra SS vibration dampers. Great stuff. The Cary is sitting on 3 of the Stillpoints Ultra 5's.


----------



## pearljam50000

The funny thing is I had the HD800 a few years ago and sold them, and didn't have a DAC or an amp when I had them.
before that I had the K701 with a DAC/amp, and they didnt come close to the HD800 straight out of my laptop, I was blown away by the sound.
Long story short, I'm getting another pair soon, and now I have a Geek Out 720 , and I'm crazy excited!
They do sound out of this world.


----------



## orkney

longbowbbs said:


> Friday night listening session....


 

 Beautiful setup. I miss my Sli-80 sig... Great match for the HD800s.
  
 I've picked up a new pair, S/N 35XXX, and am struck by their smoothness from a number of amps I have around presently. Either my ears are getting older and worse or the peak on these is a little less pronounced than on my last pair. Either way, really enjoying these. For me a near-optimum blend of SQ and usability.
  
 best,
  
 o


----------



## Canadian411

scottiebabie said:


> the braided toxic cables sure look purrrty! im only using plain ol cardas but the hd800s do sound great thru the dynahi. extremely detail with a precise & big soundstage. all the micro details one needs with very extended bass (& slam i mite add) but without the harshness/glare/grain associated with SS amps.




Wow this is one good looking amp! What is this?


----------



## HPiper

I'll say one thing, you couldn't get a more spartan front panel than that.


----------



## mikemercer

hpiper said:


> I'll say one thing, you couldn't get a more spartan front panel than that.


 
 oh, unfortunately: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 It's unfortunate - as this is a wonderfully full-bodied, dynamically-charged headphone amp prototype from Exemplar Audio!
 Tubes (4 - just sent an email to find out which tubes) - BUT: They asked me to beta the thing, and I told them the "box needs to shrink,
 it's HUGE - but they wanna keep it BIG so it matches their stereo components in a rack.
  
 I said you guys think the people after this kinda product are gonna put it in their stereo rack, and use a 10-20ft headphone cables??
 I don't think so - its supposed to be a "desk-top headphone amp" - and I can't see this behemoth on a desk... you?
  
 And it really does sound DAMN good,
 but not sure they're gonna change the chassis!!
  
 I can HOPE
  
 its also GREAT w/ my HD800s

 and Zoe Mercer LOVED it..


----------



## Mach3

canadian411 said:


> Wow this is one good looking amp! What is this?




The Dynahi is a DIY amp. It pretty much a GSX MK II with more grunt.


----------



## scottiebabie

mikemercer said:


> oh, unfortunately:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Mike i think HPiper was referring to the ghetto industrial look of my amp. yours look haute couture in comparison! hahahaha!
  
 yes Mach3 is absolutely correct. i have a diy SE Dynahi which is designed by none other than Kevin Gilmore. though plain, it does harbor some pretty serious componentry inside with full discrete circuitry. while its not much to look at, it does sound awesome with anything i've plugged in so far. driving my HD800, it still sounds bright which i think is the nature of the beast. that said, the HD800 is bright in a very good way. 
  
 to my ears, the Dynahi seemingly brings out the best in my HD800 making it very detailed, very extended top & bottom, precise imaging within a huge open soundstage all without being harsh or grainy or sibilant. its clear transparent but yet supremely musical. when ppl say HD800 dont have bass, they arent talking about a HD800 driven by a Dynahi. my HD800 goes deep with sold bass with slam.
  
 IMO a HD800 will never be a basshead's headphone but short of that, my HD800 driven by the Dynahi has bass galore in the best sense of the word...fast, taut, defined with texture.
  
 hell the Dynahi even manages to make a T1 sound lush. driven by the Dynahi, the T1 is almost a match for the HD800 with a slightly different presentation. I still prefer my HD800 but I can see liking T1 for different genres.


----------



## Canadian411

mach3 said:


> The Dynahi is a DIY amp. It pretty much a GSX MK II with more grunt.




I googled for this amp but can't find where I buy. 

This look 100000x times better than gsxmkii. Never was a fan of gsx. This is Just WoW.


----------



## scottiebabie

canadian411 said:


> I googled for this amp but can't find where I buy.
> 
> This look 100000x times better than gsxmkii. Never was a fan of gsx. This is Just WoW.


 
  
 really? my Dynahi looks positively ghetto in comparo with the gorgeous stuff that Headamp makes. wish i can afford Justin's amps but im just a poor Calgarian cowboy! LOLsss
  
 being only available on a DIY basis, im afriad u'd have to scout for a used one or commission someone to build it. cant say if a Dynahi's a great amp but it is the best amp ive heard.


----------



## skeptic

canadian411 said:


> I googled for this amp but can't find where I buy.
> 
> This look 100000x times better than gsxmkii. Never was a fan of gsx. This is Just WoW.


 
  
 Totally agree with Canadian on the aesthetics of that dynahi.  You've got a real gem there scottie.  Dynahi is a lot more rare and a lot harder to source and build than the dynalo derivatives that headamp sells.  If memory serves, this one is a fallenangel build (all his stuff is gorgeous imo) that used to belong to Shahrose.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/656268/fallenangel-gilmore-dynahi-gilmore-psu


----------



## preproman

mikemercer said:


> oh, unfortunately:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Where there's a will there's a way:


----------



## kapanak

Should I get the iFi Micro iDSD or the Resonessence Labs Concero HP for driving the HD800 on the go (not portable, but like on a trip or at a show or in a family member or friend's house)? Also, which one sounds better with the HD800?
  
 Also, any portable case recommendations for the HD800?


----------



## olor1n

Man, I love this headphone.


----------



## hotdogseller

olor1n said:


> Man, I love this headphone.


 
 +1


----------



## yates7592

kapanak said:


> Should I get the iFi Micro iDSD or the Resonessence Labs Concero HP for driving the HD800 on the go (not portable, but like on a trip or at a show or in a family member or friend's house)? Also, which one sounds better with the HD800?
> 
> Also, any portable case recommendations for the HD800?


 
 PELI 1300 fits perfectly.


----------



## longbowbbs

kapanak said:


> Should I get the iFi Micro iDSD or the Resonessence Labs Concero HP for driving the HD800 on the go (not portable, but like on a trip or at a show or in a family member or friend's house)? Also, which one sounds better with the HD800?
> 
> Also, any portable case recommendations for the HD800?


 
 The ifi iDSD Micro is awesome with the HD800's. I have not heard the Concero. I am also looking for the right sized case.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

kapanak said:


> Should I get the iFi Micro iDSD or the Resonessence Labs Concero HP for driving the HD800 on the go (not portable, but like on a trip or at a show or in a family member or friend's house)? Also, which one sounds better with the HD800?
> 
> Also, any portable case recommendations for the HD800?


 

 The  Pelican Micro Case 1060 is very fine for the micro iDSD (for HD800 see *yates7592 *recommendation):
  

  
 And the HD800 and the iDSD is a match for heaven


----------



## scottiebabie

skeptic said:


> Totally agree with Canadian on the aesthetics of that dynahi.  You've got a real gem there scottie.  Dynahi is a lot more rare and a lot harder to source and build than the dynalo derivatives that headamp sells.  If memory serves, this one is a fallenangel build (all his stuff is gorgeous imo) that used to belong to Shahrose.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/656268/fallenangel-gilmore-dynahi-gilmore-psu


 
  
 yup this Dynahi was Shahrose's end-game amp. have dealt with Shahrose a (long)while before so i do have confidence in his ears but i still pm'd him back & forth for a bit as i must admit i was more than a tad apprenhensive on matching a SS to the highly strung HD800s. was looking a used Cavalli LF as the same time s well so the decision wasnt easy. though we're from the great white north, we're still separated by a continent so personal auditions were impossible on both amps.
  
 finally took a leap of faith & snagged up the Dynahi based on Shahrose's tastes, KG's amp design brilliance & also cos i dont want the hassles (&expense) of tube amps & all that entails. just want something to plug&play. glad to say i wasnt disappointed. to my ears, the Dynahi examplifies wire-with-gain bringing forth all the best of the HD800 (&T1) including amazing clarity, transparency & palpable bass in speed, defination, depth & yes, even slam when the material has it. as repeated in my other post, the Dynahi even makes the T1 sound lush which was a shocker to me.
  
 if one hears grain or sililance or harsh (i dont), dont blame the Dynahi but instead look upstream, the Dynahi + HD800 (& to a degree the T1) is honest enough to show me GIGO. im already looking at the budget for improvements in source.
  
 ps: on another completely different topic, what about Anthony Johnson??!! Rumble completely destroyed Gufstaffson!!!  boy, Bones have to be concerned - better cut out the late night parties with the white stuff


----------



## nw130d

Anyone ran their HD800 off CEntrance DACmini CX amp/dac? Good combo/ anything of note? Thinking this as a portable rig when carrying laptop around.


----------



## zilch0md

nw130d said:


> Anyone ran their HD800 off CEntrance DACmini CX amp/dac? Good combo/ anything of note? Thinking this as a portable rig when carrying laptop around.


 
  
 Not recommended.  I love my DACmini CX for just about every other headphone, especially with the LCD-2 rev.1, but it's not on the short list of amps that are compatible with the HD800, in my opinion.
  
 Mike


----------



## Canadian411

nw130d said:


> Anyone ran their HD800 off CEntrance DACmini CX amp/dac? Good combo/ anything of note? Thinking this as a portable rig when carrying laptop around.


 
  
 I know it's on sale for $399, but why CEntrance ? it's becoming a legacy product, can't even do DSDs.
 How about Aune S16 ? $599 and has the latest AK DAC chip, and do DSDs.


----------



## nw130d

Thanks for the feed back guys... ya getting them mostly because they are on sale, trying to keep it under $500 bucks. Any other choices?


----------



## kapanak

nw130d said:


> Thanks for the feed back guys... ya getting them mostly because they are on sale, trying to keep it under $500 bucks. Any other choices?




iFi Micro iDSD is well regarded with the HD 800 and just about everything else. Also allows eventual pairing with the Valhalla 2 by Schiit, which in my opinion is in the top three best sounding amps for the HD800 under $3000.


----------



## elvergun

kapanak said:


> iFi Micro iDSD is well regarded with the HD 800 and just about everything else. Also allows eventual pairing with the Valhalla 2 by Schiit, which in my opinion is in the top three best sounding amps for the HD800 under $3000.


 
  
 Have you heard *every* amp under $3000?


----------



## nw130d

Lets not be ridiculous with technicality here lol. I am sure kapanak meant of the ones he heard.
  
 Thanks for the great suggestion. The bass boost looks like a bounce with the HD800. I will look into it...


----------



## Mach3

elvergun said:


> Have you heard *every* amp under $3000?


 
  


kapanak said:


> iFi Micro iDSD is well regarded with the HD 800 and just about everything else. Also allows eventual pairing with the Valhalla 2 by Schiit, which in my opinion is in the top three best sounding amps for the HD800 under $3000.


 
  
  
 Both the iFi Micro iDSD & Valhalla 2 I'm sure are great product and would scale well with the HD800. But to compare them to $3000k amps??
 Kapanak can you name maybe one or two of these so call 3k amps you have heard. I would love to hear a comparison. Who knows, I might even agree with you.


----------



## zerodeefex

mikemercer said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I am loving this setup tonight. HD800's with the new Toxic cables SW22's. ifi iDSD Micro and an LH Labs 1G cable. Grooving to 24/96 AIFF via Audirvana+ Rush The Spirit of Radio.
> ...




The HP out on my sprout sounds like complete and total donkey balls.

I have no idea what the heck you're listening to. My little leckerton, heck, even the Fiio E12 sounds better.


----------



## scottiebabie

zerodeefex said:


> The HP out on my sprout sounds like complete and total donkey balls.
> 
> I have no idea what the heck you're listening to. My little leckerton, heck, even the Fiio E12 sounds better.


 
  
 LOLS!! thats putting it mildly. one of yous is definitely not listening to the same amp. either that or the Fiio E12 is amazing...


----------



## Currawong

I'd guess @mikemercer has a crapload of Nordost power noise filtering stuff behind his desk still (correct me if I'm wrong). I've had a few components with only basic power supplies that were transformed in their performance by noise filters and regenerators, which did the work the PSU of the devices couldn't. For that reason, whenever I evaluate inexpensive gear, I remove all the extra stuff for the most part, as I want to hear how it will sound if someone who only had a pair of stock headphones, a desk and a computer would experience it. HD-800 impressions IMO are especially susceptible to this.


----------



## nw130d

Ya I am not looking for multiple things to hook up. Something that works in the office or travel hotel room type of set up. Doesn't have to be actually portable just transportable. Never tried a smaller solid state amp with HD800. Currently like the WA2 with HD800. Want something warmer toned or even bass boost of sorts would be ideal to cover wider genera...


----------



## freedom01

Just a two cent opinion on a 3000 bucks amp. 

How does one quantify a $3000 amp's ability ?
How does one arrive at this $3000 figure ? 

Can a $400 or $500 amp that can bridge or even near that gap of quality? Why not ? 

The internal parts are dirt cheap (from manufacturers pov, they buy in bulk). It is the r&d, branding and other overhead costs that made up the main bulk of $3000. 

If the manufacturer and r&d team knows what they are doing, they can certainly come out with something like Schiit. 

Unless you have plenty of cash to burn, by all means spend what you like. For folks like us with certain amount of budget to play around, a brand like Schiit is a god send. Aesthetic, functionality, quality and price range - Win, Win, Win and Win.


----------



## pearljam50000

Is there any point using the HD800 before the 300 hours burn in?


----------



## olor1n

pearljam50000 said:


> Is there any point using the HD800 before the 300 hours burn in?




No, there is no point. The molecules that make up the HD800 transducers are locked in a vacuum devoid of space/time. Only the ceremonial sacrifice of 666 virgins precisely at the 300 hour mark can free those particles to even make sound. If you want them to sound like Summit-Fi headphones - you then need to high five an albino, after copulating with a pink unicorn. Hope this helps!


----------



## johnjen

pearljam50000 said:


> Is there any point using the HD800 before the 300 hours burn in?


 
 That depends upon whether or not you'd like to know how they change due to break in.
 Or not.
  
 JJ
 ps although the previous answer is WAY more imaginitive… :thumb


----------



## Sorrodje

olor1n said:


> No, there is no point. The molecules that make up the HD800 transducers are locked in a vacuum devoid of space/time. Only the ceremonial sacrifice of 666 virgins precisely at the 300 hour mark can free those particles to even make sound. If you want them to sound like Summit-Fi headphones - you then need to high five an albino, after copulating with a pink unicorn. Hope this helps!


 
  
 This definitely helps me to understand why my HD800 does not sound summit-fi yet.
  
 I copulated with a white licorn. I'm f...ed


----------



## citraian

sorrodje said:


> This definitely helps me to understand why my HD800 does not sound summit-fi yet.
> 
> I copulated with a white licorn. I'm f...ed



Tell me about it! S**t...


----------



## Sorrodje

I Wonder if using $$$$ heimdal cables to tie down the licorn helps...


----------



## pearljam50000

So... Is that a "no"?
Lol
Ok , message received.


olor1n said:


> No, there is no point. The molecules that make up the HD800 transducers are locked in a vacuum devoid of space/time. Only the ceremonial sacrifice of 666 virgins precisely at the 300 hour mark can free those particles to even make sound. If you want them to sound like Summit-Fi headphones - you then need to high five an albino, after copulating with a pink unicorn. Hope this helps!


----------



## bearFNF

I think the message is, just enjoy the music and stop over analyzing it.

 At least that is what I got out of it, that and a good laugh.


----------



## mikemercer

zerodeefex said:


> The HP out on my sprout sounds like complete and total donkey balls.
> 
> I have no idea what the heck you're listening to. My little leckerton, heck, even the Fiio E12 sounds better.


 
 I would send it back. You never know.
 I enjoy it very much.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


currawong said:


> I'd guess @mikemercer has a crapload of Nordost power noise filtering stuff behind his desk still (correct me if I'm wrong). I've had a few components with only basic power supplies that were transformed in their performance by noise filters and regenerators, which did the work the PSU of the devices couldn't. For that reason, whenever I evaluate inexpensive gear, I remove all the extra stuff for the most part, as I want to hear how it will sound if someone who only had a pair of stock headphones, a desk and a computer would experience it. HD-800 impressions IMO are especially susceptible to this.


 
  
 I do have a Nordost QRT power system behind my main desk (a QB8 + Qv2 and a couple plug-ins) - but - I do the same thing Amos does when it comes to inexpensive gear (I have all my reference stuff plugged into the Nordost QRT all the time) I actually have another spot for power that's totally un-treated too.


----------



## scottiebabie

olor1n said:


> No, there is no point. The molecules that make up the HD800 transducers are locked in a vacuum devoid of space/time. Only the ceremonial sacrifice of 666 virgins precisely at the 300 hour mark can free those particles to even make sound. If you want them to sound like Summit-Fi headphones - you then need to high five an albino, after copulating with a pink unicorn. Hope this helps!


 
  
 Oooo Noooo i screw'd the pooch instead of a unicorn! now i know why i cant reach orgasm summit!! ROTFL
  
 guess the take is dont take it too seriously & just enjoy. music is supposed to be fun whether summit, amost summit, mid or even coolie-fi


----------



## subtle

pearljam50000 said:


> Is there any point using the HD800 before the 300 hours burn in?


 
  
 Since when did the HD800 become a headphone that necessitated a 300 hour burn in?
  
 When did I miss this nonsense?  That's almost as amusing as the good ol' days when Acix would insist the K701 needed like 600+hours to burn in.


----------



## pearljam50000

So how many hours are needed? And what are the major changes in sound?


----------



## subtle

pearljam50000 said:


> So how many hours are needed? And what are the major changes in sound?


 
  
 From my personal experience none.  I bought my first HD800 the first week it was released years ago, serial number 360, and sold it within a year.  Not sure exactly why but at that time the sound wasn't working for my ears.  Fast forward to a few years down the line I decided to give the HD800 another whirl, primarily based on that thread that implies that later production units sound different from older units.  Now I can not either confirm nor deny whether that is true or not, but my current HD800 (which is somewhere in the 26XXX serial number range) definitely sounds improved over the early unit and has been my most used "go to" headphone since acquiring it about a year ago.  To note where the latter was improved on sound, it's just nowhere near as strident and bright as the early production model and has a much more balanced sound output across the entire spectrum.
  
 As far as burn in is concerned it had zero effect on both pairs I have purchased.  The old one never did change with burn in hence me ending up selling it.  My current pair has sounded amazing straight out of the box and it too has not changed a single bit with burn in.  YMMV.


----------



## kapanak

subtle said:


> As far as burn in is concerned it had zero effect on both pairs I have purchased.  The old one never did change with burn in hence me ending up selling it.  My current pair has sounded amazing straight out of the box and it too has not changed a single bit with burn in.  YMMV.


 
  
 I agree with this. I owned a 2XXX serial number, and then a 97XX serial number, both sold, and I re-purchased one after a year or so, 34XXX serial number. It certainly sounded more balanced, with plenty of low frequencies and high frequencies (which the HD800 never lacks haha), and the same amazing mids as before. And it sounded wonderful right out of the box.
  
 Most HD800 go through plenty of testing and in-factory burn-in already. I have found that burn-in has never actually had an effect on the HD800. Changes in the source and amplification has some effects, and changes in cables, none.


----------



## scottiebabie

pearljam50000 said:


> So how many hours are needed? And what are the major changes in sound?


 
 if it were me (& i have intense need to know), i would do a semi critical listen & note the down my impressions. put the Senns on the cooker when im working or out&abouts & note the times spent on burn it. take it out at intervals & note impressions. for a more scientific study, make the listening intervals time specific but the main crux is diligent record keeping.
  
 if i do hear differences at diifferent time intervals, then to me, burn in is real & screw what anyone else says. there is very good science that dynamic transducers do loosen up with playtime (ie burn-in) & its logical to assume that may & can affect changes in the reproduction of sound. 
  
 just my 2c take on the voodoo of burn-in


----------



## pearljam50000

That's interesting, thanks.
 Should i ask the seller for a unit that has a serial number of 30XXX and later?
 Quote:


subtle said:


> From my personal experience none.  I bought my first HD800 the first week it was released years ago, serial number 360, and sold it within a year.  Not sure exactly why but at that time the sound wasn't working for my ears.  Fast forward to a few years down the line I decided to give the HD800 another whirl, primarily based on that thread that implies that later production units sound different from older units.  Now I can not either confirm nor deny whether that is true or not, but my current HD800 (which is somewhere in the 26XXX serial number range) definitely sounds improved over the early unit and has been my most used "go to" headphone since acquiring it about a year ago.  To note where the latter was improved on sound, it's just nowhere near as strident and bright as the early production model and has a much more balanced sound output across the entire spectrum.
> 
> As far as burn in is concerned it had zero effect on both pairs I have purchased.  The old one never did change with burn in hence me ending up selling it.  My current pair has sounded amazing straight out of the box and it too has not changed a single bit with burn in.  YMMV.


----------



## kapanak

elvergun said:


> Have you heard *every* amp under $3000?


 
  
 Obviously not. But I have heard many options that people here and elsewhere consider great and recommend.
 There are plenty of mediocre expensive amps.
  


nw130d said:


> Lets not be ridiculous with technicality here lol. I am sure kapanak meant of the ones he heard.
> 
> Thanks for the great suggestion. The bass boost looks like a bounce with the HD800. I will look into it...


 
  
 Thank you. I hope any choice you make works out well for you 
  


mach3 said:


> Both the iFi Micro iDSD & Valhalla 2 I'm sure are great product and would scale well with the HD800. But to compare them to $3000k amps??
> Kapanak can you name maybe one or two of these so call 3k amps you have heard. I would love to hear a comparison. Who knows, I might even agree with you.


 
  
 For weeks, I had been reading and posting and asking and everything possible. In the end, I decided a comparison by myself was the only way to find an answer.
  
 Plenty of people claim dubious BS here all the time. In my case, I actually made that conclusion after extensive listening in the last two weeks on 12 different amps and 3 different sources, though some of the amps also had built-in DACs or were DACs with built-in amps, and while I am busy this week, look forward to that comparison 
  
 The amps were Schiit Ragnarok, Auralic Taurus MKII, Sennheiser HDVA600, DNA Sonnett 2, DNA Stratus, Bottlehead Crack, Schiit Valhalla 2, Lehmann Black Cube Linear, Resonessence Labs Concero HP, Marantz HD-DAC1, HeadAmp GS-X, and Violectric V181.
  
 Other than the Concero HP and the Marantz, which were DAC/Amps, the rest were fed by first the Resonessence Labs Concero HD, then by the iFi Micro iDSD, and at last, by an Auralic Vega DAC.
  
 No, I don't know one person who owns all of that of course, but I was able to track down enough people to make sure I have heard those all. Some were loaned out from CableCo and shipped to Seattle, which I subsequently picked up and brought to Vancouver, and others were sourced from local shops and enthusiasts.
  
 And all the listening was done through my HD800. And no, I didn't do A/B testing or blind testing, because it would not be statistically correct no matter how I set it up.
  
 And of course, my conclusions only hold for me, and my ears and my musical tastes and expectations. I play several instruments from a young age, and was told to have a near perfect pitch as a child, and able to play music by ear only. So for me, I have a pretty good idea of what I hear from the HD800 and the changes in source. Still, YMMV 
  
 Based on my own ears, I found the iFi Micro iDSD and the Valhalla 2 pairing, which costs a total of $1000 in Canada, to be ~90% there in terms of sound quality to the best combination for me, which was the Vega and Ragnarok ($5500 total in Canada). Of course, the Valhalla 2 sounded even better with the Vega than the iFi Micro iDSD. Auralic's own Taurus MKII sounded amazing as well, and would probably be my second option if not the Ragnarok. The Taurus MKII was more user friendly than the Ragnarok though.
  


freedom01 said:


> Just a two cent opinion on a 3000 bucks amp.
> 
> How does one quantify a $3000 amp's ability ?
> How does one arrive at this $3000 figure ?
> ...


 
  
 Exactly. Anybody can just put a price tag and people will flock to buy it because it's expensive.
  
 A nice example in the camera world today are the fancy-fied Hasselblad cameras, which are just Sony cameras with a new shell. Or even Leica cameras other than the M-series and S-series 
  
 ... or Vertu phones.


----------



## zerodeefex

mikemercer said:


> I would send it back. You never know.
> I enjoy it very much.
> 
> 
> I do have a Nordost QRT power system behind my main desk (a QB8 + Qv2 and a couple plug-ins) - but - I do the same thing Amos does when it comes to inexpensive gear (I have all my reference stuff plugged into the Nordost QRT all the time) I actually have another spot for power that's totally un-treated too.


 
  
I have a 250A breaker and isolated, dedicated circuits for my audio setup in the office. I also have a bit of upstream power conditioning gear.
 
The truth of the matter is that the cheapy headamp implementation in the Sprout combined with the bass emphasis/wonky sound signature on it produces mediocre sound on headphones and, while okay, is nowhere near good enough for really high end gear. The "powers anything" statement for speakers is untrue as it audibly distorts once you cross the 20wpc threshold (which I can hit on < 85dB @ 1w @ 1m speakers).
 
The Sprout is a good product for what it is: a small, all-in-one unit that comes with a heap of compromises. If you're using the HD800, though, it's a terrible pairing. It pairs best with modest speakers (Dennis Murphy Affordable Accuracy/modded BS22s) and modest headphones (HD600, K7XX).


----------



## mikemercer

zerodeefex said:


> I have a 250A breaker and isolated, dedicated circuits for my audio setup in the office. I also have a bit of upstream power conditioning gear.
> 
> The truth of the matter is that the cheapy headamp implementation in the Sprout combined with the bass emphasis/wonky sound signature on it produces mediocre sound on headphones and, while okay, is nowhere near good enough for really high end gear. The "powers anything" statement for speakers is untrue as it audibly distorts once you cross the 20wpc threshold (which I can hit on < 85dB @ 1w @ 1m speakers).
> 
> The Sprout is a good product for what it is: a small, all-in-one unit that comes with a heap of compromises. If you're using the HD800, though, it's a terrible pairing. It pairs best with modest speakers (Dennis Murphy Affordable Accuracy/modded BS22s) and modest headphones (HD600, K7XX).


 
 Yeah I see the Sprout as great for a college student. And it plays well w/ my lil' CEntrance Masterclass desktop coaxial speakers (not difficult to drive at all) and I hated the signature w/ the HD800s w/ the stock cable and this other wire (cant remember at the moment) - but something about the Nordost Heimdall leaned it out for me and I actually enjoyed the combo during that listening sesh - all comes down to taste I think. Plus - I was coming to the end of a 72-hour-straight work binge!! I got a nasty post-CES flu and was playing catch-up.
  
 But - of course I didn't use 800s or anything close when I wrote about the Sprout - mostly used my 50x, Monster DNA Pros, and HD-25 1-IIs.
  
 That was experimentation time!! I'll do it again to check if I was past the "over-tired" state and into the _*tripping-I-should-be-asleep*_ state when I did that!!!!
 As soon as I have some time. You got me curious. 
  
 And yeah - I'm VERY grateful to have two friends that are electricians up here  - when we moved out the first time years ago they gave me an isolated 250a breaker as well.
 My buddy J did the same thing here I believe - I just asked him to mimic what he did at our old house. It's crazy because I swear, even with the SAME SYSTEM, all variables (like when I move my WA7 between my home office and up-front) that it sounds different. Alexandra heard it too - and it's not over-the-top, but detail retrieval and especially bass control are different. I actually did an A/B test like that to show a buddy he had problems in his AC line when we set his stereo up. He installed some conditioning and was able to remedy it without spending much $$. This is our first house (that we own) so the investment was worth it!


----------



## nw130d

Think I narrowed it down to Schiit Valhalla 2 (Hi Lo gain for different headphones, carry the tubes in a small hard case) and by the sounds of it might even sound better than my WA2.


----------



## WilCox

nw130d said:


> Think I narrowed it down to Schiit Valhalla 2 (Hi Lo gain for different headphones, carry the tubes in a small hard case) and by the sounds of it might even sound better than my WA2.


 
  
 Excellent choice.  I have both the WA2 and the Valhalla 2 and both are excellent, but different.  Lately, I've been preferring the Valhalla 2 which keeps just the right amount of "tubeocity" without going over the top.


----------



## johnjen

mikemercer said:


> snip
> 
> And yeah - I'm VERY grateful to have two friends that are electricians up here  - when we moved out the first time years ago they gave me an isolated 250a breaker as well.
> My buddy J did the same thing here I believe - I just asked him to mimic what he did at our old house. It's crazy because I swear, even with the SAME SYSTEM, all variables (like when I move my WA7 between my home office and up-front) that it sounds different. Alexandra heard it too - and_* it's not over-the-top, but detail retrieval and especially bass control are different*_. I actually did an A/B test like that to show a buddy he had problems in his AC line when we set his stereo up. He installed some conditioning and was able to remedy it without spending much $$. This is our first house (that we own) so the investment was worth it!


 
 "_*it's not over-the-top, but detail retrieval and especially bass control are different*_."  _*Emphasis mine…*_
  
 These are 2 changes I've noticed as well, due to the nature of the ac power distribution system.
 I've been monitoring and recording the 'performance' of the feeds that power my system for a little bit now and those 2 acoustical traits (among others) can take a mother may I step up in SQ, if we feed our systems 'more suitable' power.  And it's not an all or nothing situation.  There seem to be various levels of tweak (or as some might say, levels of comittment… 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) that can be applied, in stages, over time.
  
 Just a thought or 2
  
 JJ


----------



## icebear

zerodeefex said:


> I have a *250A breaker* and isolated, dedicated circuits for my audio setup in the office. I also have a bit of upstream power conditioning gear....


 
  
 250A 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ?? 
 I guess 25A would be sufficient for 110V in SF isn't it or are you also arc welding in your office?


----------



## mikemercer

johnjen said:


> "_*it's not over-the-top, but detail retrieval and especially bass control are different*_."  _*Emphasis mine…*_
> 
> These are 2 changes I've noticed as well, due to the nature of the ac power distribution system.
> I've been monitoring and recording the 'performance' of the feeds that power my system for a little bit now and those 2 acoustical traits (among others) can take a mother may I step up in SQ, if we feed our systems 'more suitable' power.  And it's not an all or nothing situation.  There seem to be various levels of tweak (or as some might say, levels of comittment…
> ...


 
 right on.
 Glad you hearing similar changes when the AC is different. I have another friend who built a project studio in his house (recording studio - where I do a great deal of mixing actually) and the first thing I asked him when I saw it for the first time was about dedicated power. Unfortunately - his response went something like: "wha?". Well, he learned the hard way that the contractor really screwed him once I started installing the rack gear and console, etc... Poor guy had to have all sorts of walls and such destroyed...
  
 Funny thing is - that same friend used HD800s all the time when he's referencing his mixes (he plays bass in a ska band). He got the pair from a couple he was moving (he also has a small moving business on the side) - for NOTHIN! Imagine that...


icebear said:


> 250A
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't know why J went so hefty on the power  - straight up.
 I left it to him as he took care of my power in my last home and he did a GREAT job.
  
 Might be because we have a machine shop next door that we rent out to my neighbors (they're truck-drivers) - though its isolated.
 I'll ask him when I'm back at his studio next week. He built one of the nicest in-home recording studios I've ever seen, including big-name bands that have much more money than he does! I just infected him w/ the personal audio bug recently


----------



## Sorrodje

If I remember well , some people were interesed in K812 vs HD800 impressions here so I copy/paste here what I wrote in the K812 thread :
  


> Here's my impressions of the K812 compared to the HD800 :
> 
> - A bit warmer with a more downward FR (This K812 has a close to perfect balance IMO)
> - Very good soundstage less wide and deep than the HD800 but as holographic. Imaging is not near as good as the HD800 though. Both soundstages share the same diffuse and laid-back nature.
> ...


----------



## pearljam50000

That's excellent.
 I no longer have a dilemma between the two.
 I'm getting the HD800.


----------



## yzhengyu

kapanak said:


> Based on my own ears, I found the iFi Micro iDSD and the Valhalla 2 pairing, which costs a total of $1000 in Canada, to be ~90% there in terms of sound quality to the best combination for me, which was the Vega and Ragnarok ($5500 total in Canada).


 
  
 As someone who has the Valhalla 2 on backorder (purely on the recommendations of headfi-ers) and intending to pair it with the ifi micro DSD, just want to ask did you listen to the micro's headphone amp out as well? If so, what was your opinion of the Valhalla 2 against the micro's amp?


----------



## SilentFrequency

The hd800 is the best high end headphone of 2015! 

http://www.cnet.com/topics/headphones/best-headphones/high-end/


----------



## scottiebabie

silentfrequency said:


> The hd800 is the best high end headphone of 2015!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 AND then they go say Beats Studio Wireless as the best bluetooth set for $380!!!
  
 a $40 Bludio H+ turbine will probably sound as good if not better


----------



## SilentFrequency

scottiebabie said:


> AND then they go say Beats Studio Wireless as the best bluetooth set for $380!!!
> 
> a $40 Bludio H+ turbine will probably sound as good if not better :rolleyes:




Well, I can only comment on the hd800's but think it's a pretty good endorsement for them anyway.


----------



## RRod

silentfrequency said:


> Well, I can only comment on the hd800's but think it's a pretty good endorsement for them anyway.


 
  
 I'm down for anything that will get Senn. more $$ to develop their next good phone ^_^


----------



## pearljam50000

I don't agree with you, because I'll go crazy if they come out with something better than the HD800 a year after I get it ^_^


----------



## ruthieandjohn

silentfrequency said:


> Well, I can only comment on the hd800's but think it's a pretty good endorsement for them anyway.


 

 I can comment on the Beats Studio 2013 Wireless as well.  They are fabulous.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/715959/comparing-wireless-noise-canceling-headphones-parrot-zik-beats-studio-2013-wireless-sennheiser-pxc-310-bt-quasi-objective-tests#post_10487062


----------



## Klots

Hi! I want to upgrade my amp later this year. At the moment I have BH Crack and I love it. My budget is around 1200$. Something like WA6se, BH Mainline? Something else? Shoot!


----------



## nixir

klots said:


> Hi! I want to upgrade my amp later this year. At the moment I have BH Crack and I love it. My budget is around 1200$. Something like WA6se, BH Mainline? Something else? Shoot!


 

 I heard very good things on the WA6se, may worth checking it out. It's supposed to be a warmer sounding amp which pairs well with HD800s for a more pleasing sound.


----------



## guido

B.M.C. Puredac ...


----------



## skeptic

klots said:


> Hi! I want to upgrade my amp later this year. At the moment I have BH Crack and I love it. My budget is around 1200$. Something like WA6se, BH Mainline? Something else? Shoot!




If you are game to build it, the mainline ticks all the boxes for being an excellent tube amp and really is one of the best options out there at any price for hd800s. To my ears, nothing on the woo lineup is even close (heard everything but their monblocks). 

Don't know if you are following loquah's bh amp comparison thread, but paulie just completed a build and has promised some comparative comments relative to his stratus in the proximate future.


----------



## subtle

silentfrequency said:


> The hd800 is the best high end headphone of 2015!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 How do they present an award like that when the first month of 2015 isn't even over with yet?
  
 What a joke of a publication.


----------



## pearljam50000

Do you guys expect anything new from Sennheiser @ Musikmesse?


----------



## Klots

skeptic said:


> If you are game to build it, the mainline ticks all the boxes for being an excellent tube amp and really is one of the best options out there at any price for hd800s. To my ears, nothing on the woo lineup is even close (heard everything but their monblocks).
> 
> Don't know if you are following loquah's bh amp comparison thread, but paulie just completed a build and has promised some comparative comments relative to his stratus in the proximate future.


 



 Yes I'm following the comparison thread. Looking forward to his comparative comments. Sonett 2 is also one option for me (Stratus costs too much).

 Going to get my Speedball next week, so atleast some upgrade until I get my hands on something better.


----------



## Mach3

skeptic said:


> If you are game to build it, the mainline ticks all the boxes for being an excellent tube amp and really is one of the best options out there at any price for hd800s. To my ears, nothing on the woo lineup is even close (heard everything but their monblocks).
> 
> Don't know if you are following loquah's bh amp comparison thread, but paulie just completed a build and has promised some comparative comments relative to his stratus in the proximate future.




mainline better than all woo audio lineup except the mono block? Simply wow, can someone with both wa6se vs mainline chime in on impression?


----------



## skeptic

klots said:


> Yes I'm following the comparison thread. Looking forward to his comparative comments. Sonett 2 is also one option for me (Stratus costs too much).
> 
> Going to get my Speedball next week, so atleast some upgrade until I get my hands on something better.


 
  
 The speedball will definitely be a step in the right direction.  Upgrading your output caps and pot are also pretty quick and easy improvements if your next amp is still a little ways down the road.  Also, when pairing hd800's with the crack, I think getting some felt and foam and implementing the anax mod, as described on innerfidelity, is worth a go to see if you like it.  Depending on your tubes and tastes in music, crack can present pretty energetic trebles on occasion, and I found I generally preferred the anax mod in place with mine.  It makes for a really enjoyable combo on the whole, but these amazing phones can/do sound even better once a true totl amp is within your grasp.   
  
 [Edit - I would love to see a comparison to the Sonett 2 as well.  Just not enough mainlines floating around out there yet so the comparisons are sadly few and far between.]


----------



## nephilim32

Just an update with my HD 800 rig. 

Burson soloist SL
ARCAM irDAC

Interconnects...
Audio quest king cobra RCA leads
ALO Audio reference 16 HD 800 cable upgrade. 
Pangea SE9 AC power cord (for soloist.) 

I must say. I've never heard such clear and precise sound in all my life with this setup. This is what I look forward to when I get home from work. I'm really at that point where I can't imagine a headphone rig sounding better for my sound tastes at this stage in my audio adventures. I tried throwing in a pair of SONY MDR Z7's into the Above rig I listed and I want to be clear, the HD 800's kick the living **** out of the Sony MDR 7's. in the world of audio I just got further edification that you really do get what you pay for. The MDR's are a great headphone, but I have just got the education that they are not an elite headphone like our beloved 800's. 
above all, I certainly do not take these Cans for granted.


----------



## freddr

Have anyone here compared Magni 2 UBER vs Matrix M-stage HPA-2 with HD800?


----------



## skimrn

I owned HD 700 and Beyer T1, and last week I finally got the HD 800.  As soon as I put it on and played a CD, I was in another world!  What a piece of gear!  I am in heaven!
 I just ordered Sennheiser HDVD 800 Amp, I hope it's a good match for it!


----------



## Klots

skeptic said:


> The speedball will definitely be a step in the right direction.  Upgrading your output caps and pot are also pretty quick and easy improvements if your next amp is still a little ways down the road.  Also, when pairing hd800's with the crack, I think getting some felt and foam and implementing the anax mod, as described on innerfidelity, is worth a go to see if you like it.  Depending on your tubes and tastes in music, crack can present pretty energetic trebles on occasion, and I found I generally preferred the anax mod in place with mine.  It makes for a really enjoyable combo on the whole, but these amazing phones can/do sound even better once a true totl amp is within your grasp.
> 
> [Edit - I would love to see a comparison to the Sonett 2 as well.  Just not enough mainlines floating around out there yet so the comparisons are sadly few and far between.]


 



 Output caps are already upgraded (JFX caps with russian teflon bypass caps) and so is the pot (valab23). For the tubes I use TS5998 and E80CC, but with speedball I will get my voltages correct for E80CC. I use M-dac as my dac and I see no need for anax mod.


----------



## frank2908

I thought making a closed HD800 would be fun, but turned out taking too much time and money. This is for sure not the final version yet.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/752877/3d-printed-closed-headphones-with-hd800-driver#post_11271199

 The first prototype in rosewood CNCed by Calico88.

 The final version (until now), 3D printed.

 THe closed headphones with HD800 driver and my old custom T50rp


----------



## lin0003

Wow, looks amazing! How does it sound?


----------



## Dopaminer

frank2908 said:


> I thought making a closed HD800 would be fun, but turned out taking too much time and money. This is for sure not the final version yet.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/752877/3d-printed-closed-headphones-with-hd800-driver#post_11271199
> 
> The first prototype in rosewood CNCed by Calico88.
> ...


 
  
  
 W
 O
 W
 !
 !


----------



## frank2908

lin0003 said:


> Wow, looks amazing! How does it sound?


 
 I posted the quick impression in the link to the thread. The drivers are more angled than the stock HD800 ( audeze earpads+ angled driver relative to baffe) therefore the soundstage is a bit deeper. The last time I compared to the hd800 in a shop, the treble is a bit less hot, and mid and bass are probably the same. THe sound is not much closed in compared to the hd800. After the short A/B session, I made a small adjustment to increase the bass quantity a bit, but haven't made a new comparison yet.


----------



## SilentFrequency

subtle said:


> How do they present an award like that when the first month of 2015 isn't even over with yet?
> 
> What a joke of a publication.




Well, maybe they present the award as in the hd800 is the best hp of 2015 currently, so far, but maybe update as newer/other models of headphones get released?


----------



## SilentFrequency

frank2908 said:


> I thought making a closed HD800 would be fun, but turned out taking too much time and money. This is for sure not the final version yet.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/752877/3d-printed-closed-headphones-with-hd800-driver#post_11271199
> 
> 
> ...




omg!

I've totally already commented in other threads that I think a closed back version of the hd800 would be so great!

I hope Sennheiser are reading your thread!!


----------



## Canadian411

@frank2908 oh man !,m this is beautiful. ! closed HD800, I've always dreamed about Sony R10 clone 
 How's the sound relative to the original HD800 ?


----------



## bmichels

I jumped in the train: just ordered a HD800 to go with my Eddie Curent 445 tube amp. 




( this HD800 will be my first OPEN Back headphone and a nice complement to my 2 closed back headphone: TH900 and ED5 )

I have already received my WyWire Red Balanced câble for hD800


----------



## frank2908

canadian411 said:


> @frank2908 oh man !,m this is beautiful. ! closed HD800, I've always dreamed about Sony R10 clone
> How's the sound relative to the original HD800 ?


 
 Click on the link to see more detail of my build and quic impression compared to the original


----------



## whirlwind

bmichels said:


> I jumped in the train: just ordered a HD800 to go with my Eddie Curent 445 tube amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What a beautiful amp...the HD800 should be heavenly with that.....congrats


----------



## mikemercer

scottiebabie said:


> AND then they go say Beats Studio Wireless as the best bluetooth set for $380!!!
> 
> a $40 Bludio H+ turbine will probably sound as good if not better


 
 and the PENDULUMIC Stance S1+ will BLOW Beats Studio Wireless AWAY when it comes to fidelity!
 Though the Beats have a hump in the bass so they're weightier there...
  
 man, I also HATE when they announce "Best ____ of 2015" dude, how long into the year are we?!?!?


----------



## mikemercer

frank2908 said:


> I thought making a closed HD800 would be fun, but turned out taking too much time and money. This is for sure not the final version yet.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/752877/3d-printed-closed-headphones-with-hd800-driver#post_11271199
> 
> The first prototype in rosewood CNCed by Calico88.
> ...


 
 VERY cool!!!!


----------



## Rayzilla

Does anyone have experience with the Audio GD NFB-28 with the HD800? I have that itch ... and I would like to try balanced maybe or at least heave that option.


----------



## icebear

There is an entire thread about it, I am sure you will also find comments using it with the HD800 :
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/676930/audio-gd-nfb-28


----------



## Rayzilla

Thanks icebear. That is the thread that raised my attention on it. I just read through the entire thread but I only saw one, maybe two posts about it's pairing with the HD800. I recall they were good together but not the best. 

I don't have a lot of experience with different combinations to compare with. I will have to do more testing but I do know that in comparing MBAir -> FiiO E17 -> Little Dot II -> HD800 was too warm for my taste. I much prefer the sound coming out of MBAir -> Line Magnetic 502 CA -> LM Mini 218 IA -> HD800.

I like the flexibility of the NFB-28: SE and Balnced; somewhat transportable; Sabre chip; pre-amp; can work as DAC only; can work as amp only; remote control option; quality parts; other options...


----------



## Makarov Andrei

rayzilla said:


> Does anyone have experience with the Audio GD NFB-28 with the HD800? I have that itch ... and I would like to try balanced maybe or at least heave that option.


 
I had NFB-10SE (wolfson). As a DAC it plays fine for the money it costs, but as he's a bad amp )). Do you get two, or three factors: itch Sabre chip + brightness 800 (their nature is bright, with stock cable) + amp NFB-28. I don't think you have a good sound


----------



## lockjaw

I am new to the site and this is my first post.  I just purchased a pair of hd800s to compare and contrast against my Mr. Speakers Alpha Primes.  I know, you really can't find a more different sounding comparison.  Just had to do it given all the divergent views on the HD800s.  I personally love my Alpha Primes, they do everything well and are never fatiguing.  So enter the HD800s...  at first I hated them... too bright, where's the bass??  (need to say it in the "where's the beef voice").  Really, 1500 dollars for this.
  
 You all know where I'm going with this.  After spending some time with the HD800s I started hearing detail the Primes just don't capture, maybe all the presumed brightness is just detail?  Well actually they ARE bright but I started to not mind, just had to turn the volume down a bit.  The next observation is the wide sound stage, it's quite breathtaking. (shorn scrotum good).  The bass seems limited, of course it is compared to the Primes, I guess an advantage all planar magnetics enjoy. 
  
 How about the Anaxilus mod?  Hell yeah, couldn't wait to pull off the dust covers and get to work.  2 bucks worth of supplies from Michaels and a few x-acto blades later I was modded-up.  Discernible difference!  That 6kz bump that was tearing up my tympanic membranes was gone.  I ran to tell my wife who looked at me like I was nuts and proceeded to hit me with a few honey-dos.  I should have known she wouldn't care about the mod, sorry Anaxilus.  I eventually shed the mod pads finding they help with treble but partly reduced that "ethereal" life the HD800s exude.  I guess you don't get something for nothing.  One has to figure the German engineers had a reason for that resonant metal ring.
  
 Here's my set-up.  PC FLAC to Audio Lab mDAC to a Lehmann black cube amp.
  
 Yes I know... I need tubes.  Working on it as we speak.
  
 Great to be on the site and appreciate all the wonderful reviews and commentary critical in helping me eventually get into headphones.
  
 The Alpha primes will be on Audiogon soon unless a buddy buys them also the Lehmann so I can fund a decent tube amp.
  
 I have a great picture but the site won't let me upload it.  oh well.
  
 thanks - Steve


----------



## lextek

lockjaw said:


> I am new to the site and this is my first post.  I just purchased a pair of hd800s to compare and contrast against my Mr. Speakers Alpha Primes.  I know, you really can't find a more different sounding comparison.  Just had to do it given all the divergent views on the HD800s.  I personally love my Alpha Primes, they do everything well and are never fatiguing.  So enter the HD800s...  at first I hated them... too bright, where's the bass??  (need to say it in the "where's the beef voice").  Really, 1500 dollars for this.
> 
> You all know where I'm going with this.  After spending some time with the HD800s I started hearing detail the Primes just don't capture, maybe all the presumed brightness is just detail?  Well actually they ARE bright but I started to not mind, just had to turn the volume down a bit.  The next observation is the wide sound stage, it's quite breathtaking. (shorn scrotum good).  The bass seems limited, of course it is compared to the Primes, I guess an advantage all planar magnetics enjoy.
> 
> ...



Great post and you already know about your wallet.....


----------



## lockjaw

Yeah, tell me about it!
  
 My next quest is finding the right tube amp and eventually a better DAC.   Talk about expensive!
  
 I started looking at the various brands out there... and their associated cost.  For kicks I email Woo Audio asking if my HD800s and I could get away with the "modestly priced" WA6-SEs.  The response was that I could.... but..... I'd be WAY BETTER OFF with the WA5-LE which approaches 4K depending on tubes and upgrades.  GROAN!


----------



## bmichels

lockjaw said:


> Yes I know... I need tubes.  Working on it as we speak.


 
  
 I am glad you enjoy your HD800.   
  
 I should get mine next week and I already have it's WyWire red BALANCED cable 
  
 I hope that the "soft" Tube Signature of my Tube Amps  will allow to avoid to MOD the HD800.
  
 All those 3 guys are waiting for the new comer


----------



## thomascrown

lextek said:


> Great post and you already know about your wallet.....



What is this thing about the wallet? (started with a bravo amp and a pair of m50, a year and a half after I own a Taurus with hd800):-D


----------



## Acapella11

I would keep an eye on a brand new amp from Feliks Audio (Elise, $499), which seems to be a great bargain and combines the very nice 6SN7 and 6AS7 or 6080 tubes. The tube combination was inspired by Head-fi and evolved out of a Little Dot tube rolling thread. So far, the amp has proven itself to the thread starter who has a prototype already. He uses T1s, not HD800s, but I imagine it would suit the HD800 very well too. Here is the thread.


----------



## Mach3

bmichels said:


> I am glad you enjoy your HD800.
> 
> I should get mine next week and I already have it's WyWire red BALANCED cable
> 
> ...




I wonder how the TUR-06 ($870USD) flair up against the up coming woo audio w8 ($1500USD)


----------



## Dopaminer

mach3 said:


> I wonder how the TUR-06 ($870USD) flair up against the up coming woo audio w8 ($1500USD)


 

 For one thing, it can claim a kind of bitter victory for having its design completely ripped off by Woo.


----------



## lockjaw

Battle of the giants!   I hate to part with my alpha primes, but the HD800s are just that good and papa needs a tube amp.
 You think it's ok to keep both sets of cans?!?!?!?!?!   mhahahahah
 Honestly, the Primes are still better for less than high fidelity recordings, which makes up the majority of my rock CD collection.
  
 Who cares about my kids' college education?  It's more fun collecting high end gear.  Notice the old McIntosh 275 valve amp lurking in the background.  
  
  
 Mach3 - I would definitely skip the mod.  It really does tame the treble but to my ears some of the magic is lost.  You know that vinyl sizzle you only get from a turntable, a sound the HD800s manage to emulate.  They just don't capture it quite as well when modded.
 (the felt was ripped on removal) 
  
 I bet tubes will do the trick, works great for bright speakers like Amphions.


----------



## Mach3

dopaminer said:


> For one thing, it can claim a kind of bitter victory for having its design completely ripped off by Woo.




For one thing, it can claim a kind of bitter victory for having its design completely ripped off by Woo.




lockjaw said:


> Battle of the giants!   I hate to part with my alpha primes, but the HD800s are just that good and papa needs a tube amp.
> You think it's ok to keep both sets of cans?!?!?!?!?!   mhahahahah
> Honestly, the Primes are still better for less than high fidelity recordings, which makes up the majority of my rock CD collection.
> 
> ...




I actually don't experience lost in micro detail with the mod. However, with my mod I used suede instead of felt.


----------



## Sorrodje

Yup. it seems material and precise positionning matter a lot with the Anax mod. Not tester myself though. Moreover the last iteration does not look anymore like the one we can see on IF.
  
 Many people have worked on their own to create their own "anax mod" after testing.


----------



## johnjen

mach3 said:


> For one thing, it can claim a kind of bitter victory for having its design completely ripped off by Woo.
> I actually don't experience lost in micro detail with the mod. However, with my mod I used suede instead of felt.


 
 The version #2 used shelf or rug liner material.
 I used the shelf liner and thought it was the best of the lot, of that series.
  
 It tends to be a bit tricky to fit, but once done, works rather well.
  
 JJ


----------



## Sorrodje

I wonder if a self adhesive ring of sorbothane around the driver would not do the trick...


----------



## preproman

lockjaw said:


> *Battle of the giants!  *


 
  
  
 Sorry, the Alpha Prime is not a giant..  It's a $150 headphone mod that now cost $1000 - Go figure.  Maybe the TH900 for a closed headphone giant.


----------



## mikey1964

preproman said:


> Sorry, the Alpha Prime is not a giant..  It's a $150 headphone mod that now cost $1000 - Go figure.  Maybe the TH900 for a closed headphone giant.


Agreed, AP isn't in the same league as the HD800. I have the HD800 and an AD, so I ain"t being biased.


----------



## Priidik

sorrodje said:


> ...
> Many people have worked on their own to create their own "anax mod" after testing.


 
 Material matters the most in my trials and the ® Creatology is hard to track down in my country. Any random soft thing doesn't work. I tried many damping materials (hard felt, glass-fiber tape, polyurethane sponge, micro-bore sponge) of which only one provided overall improvement. That is the micro spore material (unknown, cutout from Schwarzkopf shower-bag). 
 Has anyone tried some purpose built acoustic material for the metal ring, of the likes used for early reflection damping for speaker rigs?


----------



## Sorrodje

The main problem is avery modder who try to make his own mod can try whatever they want . They do not have anaxilus ears . That's why I'm positionned for the Anax V3.0 kit. with a genuine kit ,I'll be able to evaluate properly the benefit of the mod for my own ears and choose knowingly what I really prefer .


----------



## pearljam50000

Aren't you guys affraid to damage the HD800 when you mod it?


----------



## MattTCG

pearljam50000 said:


> Aren't you guys affraid to damage the HD800 when you mod it?


 
  
 Most mods, if carefully applied, can be easily reversed and returned to stock without any such damage. The only danger with the Anax mod is some glue residue if the mod is removed. Even the residue can be carefully removed if necessary.


----------



## ubs28

The Sennheiser HD800 stock sounds excellent here. My HD800 actually sounds a bit warm but it's ok.


----------



## lockjaw

Have you spent any time listening to the alpha primes?  Is your critique based solely on the fact they are constructed from inexpensive modified headphones?  In many cases the enclosure is the key and not the drivers themselves.  An example of this are Von Schweikert speakers.  Probably some of the finest in the world.  The VR33s use just average drivers from scan speak yet they are universally considered elite.  It's all in the cabinet bracing and trapezoidal shape.  If you've actually listened to the alpha primes then your opinion is of course as valid as mine given personal tastes and hearing variation.  Hate to slam anything without hearing them.


----------



## kapanak

lockjaw said:


> Have you spent any time listening to the alpha primes?  Is your critique based solely on the fact they are constructed from inexpensive modified headphones?  In many cases the enclosure is the key and not the drivers themselves.  An example of this are Von Schweikert speakers.  Probably some of the finest in the world.  The VR33s use just average drivers from scan speak yet they are universally considered elite.  It's all in the cabinet bracing and trapezoidal shape.  If you've actually listened to the alpha primes then your opinion is of course as valid as mine given personal tastes and hearing variation.  Hate to slam anything without hearing them.




I have not heard the AP, but I have owned and heard both the later version of MD and AD. What you say is absolutely correct, enclosure makes a huge difference, although in the case of speakers, that's more valid, as headphones barely have space inside and between the driver and ear for enormous differences in enclosure design to change drivers characters. 

However, the point of what preproman said was that the price was unwarranted and not in the same league built-wise and sound quality wise as similarly priced headphones in the $1K range. The enclosure of the AD and AP are exactly identical. YET for the same pads, headband, drivers and enclosure, you pay $400 more. I don't know how much work was done on the drivers themselves, but it can't warrant $400 more. I can buy a pair of HD 800 drivers for $500 lol. 

And at the end of the day, based on impressions and comparisons I have read, it just doesn't look or feel or sound like a flagship when compared to other flagships, and it is at most an incremental update, more neutral, compared to the AD. Speaking of the $600 Alpha Dog and the R&D and trial and error that has gone into it and its improvements over the original Fostex and the Mad Dog, it certainly gives you the sound quality for its price and more. And the extra cost of the pads and enclosures and all the nice extra touches certainly warrants at least $500-$600 for the finished product. 

Nevertheless, with the Alpha Primes, there is just so far you can extend a $50 driver and $150 headphones before you hit a ceiling and modification becomes so incremental in its improvements, the time consumed is the only thing you're charging customers for (and MrSpeakers prices that extra time and effort and possible failure rates of driver modification at $400 extra over the Alpha Dogs lol). 

Edit: Paragraph separation lol


----------



## johnjen

matttcg said:


> Most mods, if carefully applied, can be easily reversed and returned to stock without any such damage. The only danger with the Anax mod is some glue residue if the mod is removed. Even the residue can be carefully removed if necessary.


 
 When I added the anax v.2 mod (shelf liner) I used double sided tape cut in thin strips.
  
 It holds well and is easily removed when/if necessary.
  
 JJ


----------



## lockjaw

Good points indeed.  Dam, I feel ripped off  ....
  
 Actually, I really have enjoyed my Alpha Primes but not NEARLY as much as I do the HD800s.  I think the primes sound similar to the LCD 2's (I've not tried LCD3s) though the bass on the LCD2s have better extension for sure.  To my ears, the Primes are a little more balanced, very polite. (and very made out of cheap Fostex crap.... hehehe,  kidding)


----------



## skeptic

lockjaw said:


> Have you spent any time listening to the alpha primes?  Is your critique based solely on the fact they are constructed from inexpensive modified headphones?  In many cases the enclosure is the key and not the drivers themselves.  An example of this are Von Schweikert speakers.  Probably some of the finest in the world.  The VR33s use just average drivers from scan speak yet they are universally considered elite.  It's all in the cabinet bracing and trapezoidal shape.  If you've actually listened to the alpha primes then your opinion is of course as valid as mine given personal tastes and hearing variation.  Hate to slam anything without hearing them.


 
  
 A fair question to the posters above (most/all of whom were/are AD owners), but I'd also be curious whether you truly feel that the AP's are so much better than the AD's as to put them in the same arena with hd800's?  As another former AD owner (which are good headphones imo, just no where near hd800 good), I have trouble believing that any third party modification of a relatively inexpensive fostex driver turned them into something radically better - particularly given that there was no change to the enclosure between AD's and AP's.  The price jump combined with a new flagship product release less than a year after many of us received our back ordered AD's was also disappointing and ill conceived (in my view at least) from the standpoints of fostering brand loyalty and consumer satisfaction.  Additionally, that fostex now advertises a premium/modified version of its own driver in its recent th500rp - at a much lower price than the AP's - really calls the value proposition into question.  
  
 I'd still like to spend some time with a pair of AP's, when an opportunity presents itself, but have trouble envisioning myself purchasing another mrspeakers product at this point.


----------



## lockjaw

Well, if you want to try some Alpha Primes, mine are going on Audiogon in the next few days!    
  
 Should have my new tube amp this week, hope it plays nicely with my HD800s   (Ray Samuels Audio Raptor)
 Please fellow HeadHi-Rs, don't harsh my mellow if this was the wrong choice. (oh, go ahead, sure, some won't be able to help themselves and that's cool)
  
 Interestingly enough, I have never heard the A-Dogs so I'm at a disadvantage.  The reviews seem to rave about the difference between APs and ADs (and I'm not referring to Steve Guttenberg who seems to think everything is the greatest and best in the world, especially when it can plug into an ipod.)  We don't know for sure the AP enclosures are the same as the dogs.  They don't go into any detail on the website, so who knows.  It could be a totally different design internally.  Perhaps standing waves are dispersed in a different way, augmented reflective bass improved, or perhaps just a way to leech off another 400 bucks from some placebo loving noob (not me of course)?


----------



## kapanak

RS Raptor is a fine choice, given how well HD800 works with other RS models I have heard. Although impressions depends on you to post for us


----------



## frank2908

lockjaw said:


> Have you spent any time listening to the alpha primes?  Is your critique based solely on the fact they are constructed from inexpensive modified headphones?  In many cases the enclosure is the key and not the drivers themselves.  An example of this are Von Schweikert speakers.  Probably some of the finest in the world.  The VR33s use just average drivers from scan speak yet they are universally considered elite.  It's all in the cabinet bracing and trapezoidal shape.  If you've actually listened to the alpha primes then your opinion is of course as valid as mine given personal tastes and hearing variation.  Hate to slam anything without hearing them.



I have made custom headphones out of both headphones driver and I totally agree with you.the stock fostex has good driver but poorly implemented with bad housing, under damped cup and driver and not suitable pads. I can understand why people would pay $700 for them. At $1000 for the prime, I'm excited knowing that someone can push that stock driver even further. Making closed headphones is hard, my closed hd800 had me redesigned cup and baffle 3 times, plus many iteration between each design by playing with felt, dynamat and vent holes.


----------



## koiloco

^ closedd HD800??? That I would love to hear out of curiosity.


----------



## frank2908

koiloco said:


> ^ closedd HD800??? That I would love to hear out of curiosity.



http://www.head-fi.org/t/752877/3d-printed-closed-headphones-with-hd800-driver#post_11278835


----------



## Maxx134

That is a very impressive closed hd800 mod in that link...





sorrodje said:


> I wonder if a self adhesive ring of sorbothane around the driver would not do the trick...



The SAA mod goes further to remove both the metal ring around driver and the metal mesh behind it,

But that doesn't take care the inherent ringing problem, it only lessens it .

I do not know what removing the metal grill/mesh behind the driver does so I will find out myself.
I still would want protection there and personally would not want that rear exposed unless some real benifit can come of it...

I do know, for me, removing the metal rings helped and also solved issue of annax2.0 affecting soundstage by placing green material from anax2.0 in that circilular vacant space/channel instead of in top metal ring.


Not really advised if your not good at modding, as you still need the screws to hold the driver if your bold enough to remove those metal rings..
In which case the screws become too long without it.
 I achieved acceptable results with metal rings removed and green adhesive felt from annax2.0 & some shelf liner over it.





pearljam50000 said:


> Aren't you guys affraid to damage the HD800 when you mod it?



Lol there's always danger involved but you get more bold with age..


----------



## freedom01

What exactly is the ringing problem to you guys ?
What is your serial number ?
Does it affect all of the HD800 ? Or a particular batch ?

I have none of it , not that I can detect of to say the least.
Have not done any mod to it either. Love the way it sounds right out from the box.


----------



## skeptic

freedom01 said:


> What exactly is the ringing problem to you guys ?
> What is your serial number ?
> Does it affect all of the HD800 ? Or a particular batch ?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sadly, the photos seem to be gone, but most of this discussion traces back to arnaud's measurements in 2010 regarding reflections in the cup: http://www.head-fi.org/t/468461/hd800-imaging-and-treble-why-and-how-it-can-be-improved-upon


----------



## knowhatimean

maxx134 said:


> That is a very impressive closed hd800 mod in that link...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hmmm.... I may try right now !!!
  
 But instead of "the green felt" I'll use the "Creatology foamboard ring" that is now sitting on top of the "metal" ring now . Then I'll place
 the "shelf liner" that is covering the whole rest of the interior right back where it was.
  
 I have to be honest though , I may be happier with my results of the "Anax 2" mod than a lot of people seem to be. I listen to live
 perspective Acoustic music (mostly Orchestral) w/ a small proportion of Singer/Songwriter & Acoustic Jazz & have next to zero interest in Electric genres of music, & I'm really finding it hard hearing "The HD800 ridiculous glare because the headphones have no
 damping & are ringing like crazy because they can" Sennheiser voicing (if they even did any) any more. This is using a SS headphone amp (I have a few hp amps (SS & Tube, but I seem to come back to preferring my SS sound)
  
 Maybe I'll sleep on this... & decide tomorrow !!! (I can picture an angel on one shoulder & the devil on the other debating what
 to do as I sleep tonight! ; but honestly I'm happy either way (But it could be better) (Don't fix it if it ain't broke).... where's my
 two headed coin ? (Worry about danger ? It was already too late when you started this hobby !)


----------



## Maxx134

skeptic said:


> Sadly, the photos seem to be gone, but most of this discussion traces back to arnaud's measurements in 2010 regarding reflections in the cup: http://www.head-fi.org/t/468461/hd800-imaging-and-treble-why-and-how-it-can-be-improved-upon


 I am hearing a slightly less treble glare/etch with the grill removed BUT that grill is all important to protect rear from the strong magnetic attraction from there...


Hmm time to try some super thin shelf liner..


edit:
Sorry I just realized this is impressions thread and I know alot members here have been thru their share of cans before or after arriving at the hd800. .
I posted brief impressions/comparisons on all the headphones I owned in my profile if anyone interested in indirect comparisons. .


----------



## johnjen

maxx134 said:


> I am hearing a slightly less treble glare/etch with the grill removed BUT that grill is all important to protect rear from the strong magnetic attraction from there...
> 
> 
> Hmm time to try some super thin shelf liner..
> ...


 
 I've been running te SAA mod'd 800's for a couple of years now and thus far there haven't been any problems with the absence of the external shield.
  
 And SAA's mod does involve more than just removal of parts.  There is the change to the driver assembly mounting 'system' and the treatment of the xlr connectors to name but 2 more portions of their system of mods.
  
 AND I highly recommend hardwiring to eliminate the 'choke point' of those tiny connectors and wimpy wires indside the ear cups…
  
 And as I'm sure you're aware, these mods also mean that ALL of the upstream gear now takes on an even greater portion of the SQ delivered to our ears.
  
 IOW what you will hear will be even more a reflection of the signal fed them.
  
 JJ


----------



## Maxx134

Haha excellent point about increase transparency almost unthinkable that it can get better than stock (!)
Also have to agree about this super thin plug as I recently soldered an hd800 connectors and you need hands of a micro surgeon to make connector for this hd800 that thing is super thin but the fact that it is just a short length is not so bad.


----------



## Maxx134

Well for what its worth, both annax & SAA mods actually do adress the hd800 treble/ring problem, so I have combined both to my ears they work really good and the final piece of this puzzle will be annax3.0 ...
O don't see anything toppling the hd800 now,
 but this year will be interesting to see how the newcomers compare..
The he1k & dharma


----------



## johnjen

maxx134 said:


> Haha excellent point about increase transparency almost unthinkable that it can get better than stock (!)
> Also have to agree about this super thin plug as I recently soldered an hd800 connectors and you need hands of a micro surgeon to make connector for this hd800 that thing is super thin but the fact that it is just a short length is not so bad.


 
 Yeah I agree, that link is very short.
 But if you get that crazed look in your eye, like any self respecting DIY'r occasionally does… 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 And decide to hardwire straight to the drivers, you'll probably come to understand how even that short length with 3 solder joints and a curious choice of wire, 'colors' things…  
 And at these levels of transparency and precision, well, the fewer 'choke' points, the better.
  
 JJ


----------



## knowhatimean

maxx134 said:


> skeptic said:
> 
> 
> > Sadly, the photos seem to be gone, but most of this discussion traces back to arnaud's measurements in 2010 regarding reflections in the cup: http://www.head-fi.org/t/468461/hd800-imaging-and-treble-why-and-how-it-can-be-improved-upon
> ...


 
 So, the grille behind the HD800 is creating a slight reflection or is it a magnetive field disruption that is creating the treble glare ?
  
 I would never have suspected that ! I had incorrectly assumed that the treble artifacts could all be attributed to "mechanical" reasons.
 due to the physical form factors of the HD800. (I didn't consider that "electrical matters " could be influencing things)
  
 (Please bear with me at trying to explain my impressions as I don't have an Engineering background; just some Guitar Building School experience many years ago) (I'll have to be careful not to get too close to "head height" metallic surfaces after I remove the
 grilles as I'd have to use my 1st alert pager to notify someone "Help, I'm stuck to the wall & I can't get up")
  
 (Sorry about that, I'm a little crazy....must be from all this modding)


----------



## rage3324

Does the HD800 pair well with Woo Audio WA7? My initial findings say yes, but just want to confirm that.


----------



## frank2908

I have been playing with the hd800 driver for a while, but I build a totally new headphones cup so I can't comment on the effect of removing the grill. Here is my theory on the source of the brightness:
 The back of the driver is covered with metal. And Sennheiser might have tune the driver so that the resonance of this metal back is at a very high frequency, therefore you have the very extended high. When I damp the back of this driver with blutack, the brightness is gone but the micro detail and micro imaging is also gone. I have tried damping the Grado sr125 driver with blutack to remove the brightness, and it also remove some detail in the treble and also blur the mid.therefore the resonance frequency of the metal back HD800 is much higher than the plastic backed grado.


----------



## Maxx134

I am in agreement that the grill is affecting in a very high range (the feeling of agreeable VS harsh treble) and the super thin open shelf liner I applied gives me the same affect as removing the grill,
 so I believe it is a type of reflection or as stated above resonance about the grill,
yet I still have micro detailing regardless either with or without the grill, and not any loss of air with my felt applied so I keeping it that way..
edit:
There was some very slight very upper treble distance created with grill off as well..
I personally like grill on as that area is has more substance that way.


----------



## knowhatimean

I had totally forgotten how much "openness" my HE-6 headphones gained when I removed the grilles on the outerside of these phones
  
 I had planned on doing a "re-grille" mod but discovered I greatly preferred their sound w/ no grilles whatsoever. It's funny , that while
 HE-6 can sound equally transparent as the HD800 they are tonally a bit more colored.(The width & depth of available soundstage information is significantly different comparing the stock versions of these 2 hp)
  
 The truth is all the different distinctions we make about all our Sennheiser,Audeze, Hifiman, ..etc. headphones are all completely subjective as we all have slighly different ideas as to what constitutes the descriptive terms we all use. I guess the only thing that
 most of us can use to reference things is how someone thinks they compare to another headphone we're familiar with.
  
 Well, let me get started on removing that metal ring & grille on the HD800 & then talk about what my impressions are !


----------



## RapidPulse

rage3324 said:


> Does the HD800 pair well with Woo Audio WA7? My initial findings say yes, but just want to confirm that.


 
 My ears say...YES


----------



## rage3324

rapidpulse said:


> My ears say...YES


 
  
 Thank you. Now I am off to find a pair of HD800


----------



## koiloco

rage3324 said:


> Does the HD800 pair well with Woo Audio WA7? My initial findings say yes, but just want to confirm that.


 
 Enough to enjoy what HD800 has to offer but IMO, there're other cheaper options that could give about the same return.


----------



## rage3324

koiloco said:


> Enough to enjoy what HD800 has to offer but IMO, there're other cheaper options that could give about the same return.


 
 Agreed. I bought the WA7 partly based on style (and off massdrop for a discount). So when I was weighing my options, the cost for style was not a lot because of the discount. Plus the support for a wide array of headphones is nice


----------



## whirlwind

Who here has the WA2 paired with the HD800
  
 I may give this combo a go......Is it a worthy option ?


----------



## yzhengyu

Chiming in on the MrSpeakers line, I didn't find the Dogs or Primes to be particularly outstanding in comparison to the other phones in the price-range I have auditioned in the past. 
  
 To be honest, the only planar that has really impressed me thus far has been the LCD-3f - no chance to hear the Abyss or HE-6 yet, so no comments on the two of them. Overall, really well rounded, very nice tone and did very well in detail retrieval on my selected tracks that I didn't miss the HD800. It does have a "closed" feel via it's narrower soundstage, but that wasn't the killer - main issue was that it was heavy and hot and it didn't last more than 20 minutes on my head. 
  
 On a side note, while listening to the Dogs and Primes, I saw the TH900 and asked to listen to it. Was instantly drawn to its very unique signature - hey, I have the IE8i and I'm not bothered by its bass.. *coughs* - and after searching for a good deal for it, I now have a pair that just arrived yesterday and is sitting beside my HD800.


----------



## drez

I suspect it is some kind of resonance from the grill, so the only way to solve that would be to remove the offending part or try to dampen the mechanical vibrations.
  
 If you note, the baffle in front of the driver is made from some kind of plastic or something with some cool looking structure to it.
  
 The shelf liner probably disrupts the resonance coming off the silver mesh, but seems to affect sound too much for me.


----------



## knowhatimean

drez said:


> I suspect it is some kind of resonance from the grill, so the only way to solve that would be to remove the offending part or try to dampen the mechanical vibrations.
> 
> If you note, the baffle in front of the driver is made from some kind of plastic or something with some cool looking structure to it.
> 
> The shelf liner probably disrupts the resonance coming off the silver mesh, but seems to affect sound too much for me.


 
 I did exactly that today & removed those grills today ! Doing this along with a well implemented "Anax 2" mod helps the HD800 get
 out of it's own way & lets whatever qualities your listening system & source material come through.
  
 Removing the metal "retainer" ring that is holding down those "grills" was a bit challenging though as the tiny "star bit" screw head
 opennings may have been slightly "distorted" (probably from being slightly over torqued a bit) . I had to improvise a very slow, steady technique & consistently be aware of how the screw angle was changing as I was unscrewing these 4  little "B@#$A%DS"
 on each ring ! ( I have to be honest & say unless you have a "mind over matter" mindset & willingness to adapt to whatever obstacles
 arise , you might want to leave this mod to a rainy day)
  
 Thanks go to Maxx134 for posting this & for the suggestions that you sent to me


----------



## earthpeople

whirlwind said:


> Who here has the WA2 paired with the HD800
> 
> I may give this combo a go......Is it a worthy option ?


 
  
 I think general consensus is that it's a very solid pairing. I definitely enjoy the two together.


----------



## akhyar

rage3324 said:


> Does the HD800 pair well with Woo Audio WA7? My initial findings say yes, but just want to confirm that.




I had that pairing with after-market OCC cable and I liked it a lot.


----------



## Sorrodje

I don't think there's any consensus about woo audio amps. Especially the wa2. Some people hate it. Some other like it. Didn't try myself.


----------



## whirlwind

sorrodje said:


> I don't think there's any consensus about woo audio amps. Especially the wa2. Some people hate it. Some other like it. Didn't try myself.


 
 Well.....in most of my inquiries.....most people seem to think it is a very nice amp when paired with the HD800.....some have called it analogue sounding, some say it is too laid back......so I am getting a good vibe about it


----------



## Sorrodje

whirlwind said:


> Well.....in most of my inquiries.....most people seem to think it is a very nice amp when paired with the HD800.....some have called it analogue sounding, some say it is too laid back......so I am getting a good vibe about it


 
  
 Yup but some people think it's too slow and tubey to do justice to the HD800. Just saying


----------



## knowhatimean

sorrodje said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Well.....in most of my inquiries.....most people seem to think it is a very nice amp when paired with the HD800.....some have called it analogue sounding, some say it is too laid back......so I am getting a good vibe about it
> ...


 
 The thing you have to realize is that a lot of people these days seem to love using upsampling DACs. It is my belief these DACs
 aren't as "Synergistically" a good match w/ the HD800 as any other speakers or headphones they may be using.
  
 The HD800 is only trying to "resolve" (because of it's technical capabilities to do so) whatever upper frequency information is presented to it. As a result people end up assigning the blame of how their music sounds to these headphones. They are only "reproducing"
 what they were "designed" to "reproduce".
  
 What many people end up doing is to "blunt" the DAC / HP "semi- handshake" to fix the HD800s "rebellion" is to use a Tube amp.
 Depending on the design of the tube amp & how "dynamic" their music of choice normally is, they may only occasionally notice
 a "Tubey" characteristic (or they may not.
  
 I find it a continuous source of entertainment when I read what people have automatically assumed what the HD800 needs !
  
 Sennheiser should have very slightly "reduced" the technical capabilities of these headphones or (& this makes more sense to me)
 been way more specific about what kind of equipment they don't feel works with this TOTL headphone (if you expect TOTL performance
 from them)


----------



## Justin_Time

knowhatimean said:


> The thing you have to realize is that a lot of people these days seem to love using upsampling DACs. It is my belief these DACs
> aren't as "Synergistically" a good match w/ the HD800 as any other speakers or headphones they may be using.
> 
> The HD800 is only trying to "resolve" (because of it's technical capabilities to do so) whatever upper frequency information is presented to it. As a result people end up assigning the blame of how their music sounds to these headphones. They are only "reproducing"
> ...



 


It is my humble opinion that no one single audio gear is perfect, claims to the contrary by manufacturers or avid fans nothwithstading.

So it makes sense to me that we should select the links of the sonic chain to work synergistically together, maximizing their strength and minimizing their shortcomings--this is easier said than done as the sonic signature of each component cannot be isolated but only deduced from different combinations and permutations of links in the chain.

It has been known for a long time in the audio world that a "high-resolution" componhent like the HD800 (and also the HE-6 in my opinion) is at once a blessing, when everything else in the chain performs flawlessly, and a curse when there is a major flaw in one or several components in the chain.

It is like a person who always tells the truth. Sometimes a white lie may the lesser of two evils.


----------



## longbowbbs

justin_time said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > The thing you have to realize is that a lot of people these days seem to love using upsampling DACs. It is my belief these DACs
> ...


 
 The chain is the thing.....


----------



## zilch0md

My HD800 is happiest here...



FiiO X5 Coaxial Out > Metrum Octave MkII (NOS DAC) > Metrum Aurix (zero-feedback, transistor-less, tube-less amplifier)


----------



## skeptic

Nice.  So the Aurix is kind of like the ECP black diamond?  Looks like it does actually use a couple of fet's though.
  


> _The Aurix design was created where voltage gain is achieved via a so-called step-up transformer, instead of transistors or tubes. Only two FET transistors are utilised to convert the signal from the step-up transformer into power, which plays into the strength of these semiconductors.”_, says Rujtenberg.


 
  
 Will have to add this to the short list of amps to try and sample in the future.


----------



## zilch0md

I should have said that gain is not achieved via use of transistors or tubes, but rather, via a step-up transformer (magnetic induction).
  
 It's got a toggle switch at the rear for 0 dB gain (acting just as a passive pre with analog volume control) or 10 dB gain (bringing the step-up transformer into play.)
  
   Quoting the 6moons review:
   





>


 
  
  
 For the HD800, beyerdude finds the Metrum Aurix to be very similar to his WA6SE with good tubes:
  


beyerdude said:


> The HD800 do sound more euphonic with the 10db gain switched on, I spent some time a-b ing between the two and there is a greater sense of dynamics in the music, more energy, more emotion/scale - the HD800 sound very similar through the Aurix at 10db to the WA6SE with a good set of tubes - so again I would absolutely agree it does to some degree achieve a tubelike sound (The WA6SE is one of the least tube like amps I have heard which for me is ideal for the HD800 but not for some other headphones like the DT880 600ohm) - The HD800 with a good OTL amp sounded syrupy and over euphonic - it was a solution too far to solve the shortcomings of the HD800 - initially very pleasing but the thicker meatier bass and less detailed/rolled off treble in the end destroyed all that I like about the HD800.
> 
> I am not so sure about the treble roll off with the 10db gain enabled - it is not simply a matter of pure decibel gain - there is something else being added to the music (ahhhh so vague) - but maybe it  is simply a case of the additional voltage more suiting the HD800. I might revisit the gain switch and confirm this - as you said if there were any roll off then it would be very slight.


 
  
 Mike


----------



## skeptic

sorrodje said:


> Yup but some people think it's too slow and tubey to do justice to the HD800. Just saying


 
  
 /signed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It is very nice with hd650's - a full lush amp with gorgeous case work that will be particularly pleasing with some genres, but you aren't going to hear all the details, dynamics and speed that the hd800's offer.  Then again, maybe this is the preference of some listeners?
  
 The topology also seems a little outdated at this point though.  For > $1k, an OTL headamp should, at a minimum IMO, load the tubes with constant current and use nice quality film output caps.  WA3/WA2 do neither (unless you mod them like crazy like grindingthud), whereas a bottlehead crack with simple diy cap upgrades ticks both boxes for less than half the money.  YMMV and all that jazz.  
  


zilch0md said:


> I should have said that gain is not achieved via use of transistors or tubes, but rather, via a step-up transformer (magnetic induction).
> 
> It's got a toggle switch at the rear for 0 dB gain (acting just as a passive pre with analog volume control) or 10 dB gain (bringing the step-up transformer into play.)
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great post and thanks for the explanation!  Definitely sounds like a nice match for hd800's with an interesting design uniquely suited for driving headphones.


----------



## Mach3

skeptic said:


> /signed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 All this bottlehead/diy talk is making my wallet/credit card exerpiencing a mild concussion


----------



## beyerdude

zilch0md said:


> My HD800 is happiest here...
> 
> 
> 
> FiiO X5 Coaxial Out > Metrum Octave MkII (NOS DAC) > Metrum Aurix (zero-feedback, transistor-less, tube-less amplifier)


 

 I totally agree with @zilch0md on this one - I have the same audio chain as shown here - also using the onboard USB on the Metrum. I don't have any issues with the HD800 treble at all - also has great bass response - not quite as much as some of the more V sounding headphones but plenty for me. I have not modified the HD800 at all - completely stock. The X5 line out into the Aurix also sounds pretty damn decent.
  
 Regarding the Woo Audio chain - I also happily use the WA6SE with the HD800 - again I don't hear anything that makes me feel like modding the HD800 - it just needs the right tube combo (e.g. 6DE7 and Sophia Princess or old GZ32) 
  
 I think some of the more 'hyper' resolving DAC's maybe the issue sometimes equally - so the solution is down to synergy rather than any one component being 'at fault' in my opinion.


----------



## Mach3

beyerdude said:


> I totally agree with @zilch0md on this one - I have the same audio chain as shown here - also using the onboard USB on the Metrum. I don't have any issues with the HD800 treble at all - also has great bass response - not quite as much as some of the more V sounding headphones but plenty for me. I have not modified the HD800 at all - completely stock. The X5 line out into the Aurix also sounds pretty damn decent.
> 
> Regarding the Woo Audio chain - I also happily use the WA6SE with the HD800 - again I don't hear anything that makes me feel like modding the HD800 - it just needs the right tube combo (e.g. 6DE7 and Sophia Princess or old GZ32)
> 
> I think some of the more 'hyper' resolving DAC's maybe the issue sometimes equally - so the solution is down to synergy rather than any one component being 'at fault' in my opinion.


 
 Yep but regardless of the chain/combo you use with the HD800. You'll still getting the occasional complaint from people who've hardwired/programmed their brain to only accept V-shaped or basshead cans that the HD800 is lifeless or too bright.


----------



## skeptic

mach3 said:


> All this bottlehead/diy talk is making my wallet/credit card exerpiencing a mild concussion


 
  
 Hehe - no doubt!  And diy is unfortunately a disease that tends to breed more diy and accompanying bills.  Still, bringing a kit amp to life has got to be one of the most satisfying ways of indulging in hifi and often seems to result in impressions that things sound even better than they would have if purchased off the shelf.  My view is that the crack makes for an excellent warm up round (I had only ever picked up a soldering iron once before making mine).  But those with hd800's should definitely aim for the mainline - which is just a phenomenal amp for hd800's to my ears and seemingly those of the small handful of others out there who have completed one.


----------



## Mach3

skeptic said:


> Hehe - no doubt!  And diy is unfortunately a disease that tends to breed more diy and accompanying bills.  Still, bringing a kit amp to life has got to be one of the most satisfying ways of indulging in hifi and often seems to result in impressions that things sound even better than they would have if purchased off the shelf.  My view is that the crack makes for an excellent warm up round (I had only ever picked up a soldering iron once before making mine).  But those with hd800's should definitely aim for the mainline - which is just a phenomenal amp for hd800's to my ears and seemingly those of the small handful of others out there who have completed one.


 
 I don't mind if the AUD is parity with the USD about over a year ago. But at this moment, for me to purchase the mainline kit and have it delivered to Australia it $1700 @_@ Ouch!!


----------



## knowhatimean

zilch0md said:


> My HD800 is happiest here...
> 
> 
> 
> FiiO X5 Coaxial Out > Metrum Octave MkII (NOS DAC) > Metrum Aurix (zero-feedback, transistor-less, tube-less amplifier)


 
 Mike,
  
 You really have to try the "grille removal" mod. I have a bit of an earache today from overdoing my listening session last
 night !!! It takes away more "artificiality" & adds even more "openness" to the sound .
  
 If you go back a page or two in this thread you can follow the postings describing what's to be done. The only real PITA
 was removing those tiny "star head' screws on the metal rings you've placed your felt rings on. (This is more effective than
 that was"** (& I like the Anax 2 mod using the 1/8" foam squares shelf liner placed on top of things after you placed things back.
  
 **(I would bet that the reason you have to damp that ring  to lower that 6 to 8khz frequency spike is because these grilles are resonating straight through to the ring that is holding them down) (What other reason could there be for the cause of this consitently
 specific spike that  occurs ) (That ring is acting like a tiny frequency limited planar driver; So the 800 isn't strictly a "Dynamic"
 headphone after all !!!  he,he,he)


----------



## zilch0md

^ Hey, thanks for the encouragement, but I'm "chicken" to do that much disassembly of the HD800.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And I don't feel as if there's a problem to solve, despite knowing that I could simply be ignorant of a better experience.


----------



## maibuN

Is the Anax 2.0 intended to be used only without the original dust covers? What happens if you use it with dust covers? I suppose it sounds a bit more veiled with the covers but don't they tame the treble even a bit more? Is it clearly better without covers or more a matter of taste?
  
 And what's the problem with removing the outside metal cover? I don't have any metal things laying around the hd800 and also you don't grab the headphone there when putting it on or carrying it. With a little bit of care it shouldn't be a problem. Or am I wrong and it's so fragile that removing the metal cover is a no-go?


----------



## knowhatimean

maibun said:


> Is the Anax 2.0 intended to be used only without the original dust covers? What happens if you use it with dust covers? I suppose it sounds a bit more veiled with the covers but don't they tame the treble even a bit more? Is it clearly better without covers or more a matter of taste?
> 
> And what's the problem with removing the outside metal cover? I don't have any metal things laying around the hd800 and also you don't grab the headphone there when putting it on or carrying it. With a little bit of care it shouldn't be a problem. Or am I wrong and it's so fragile that removing the metal cover is a no-go?


 
 The short answer to your first question it is a matter of taste as a large portion of us who have implemented this "mod"
 all have slighly different "interpretations" due to the fact that there isn't really any standardization of the materials that are being
 used.
  
 It is basically like trying to cook from a recipe without having the same "specific" ingredients. Depending on your "intuitiveness"
 you can compensate for the ingredients you don't have on hand by substituting something else. You taste as you go along !
 What you end up with could end up working fine or meh or you might just scrap the whole thing ! The good news is the material
 you can use are fairly inexpensive, but some material substitutions may not be as "mechanically efficient" as others so you may
 need to adjust how you use it. Modding is not a "Ron Popeil" proposition of "One & You're Done"
  
 As for the original dust covers they (semi) work on a different principle than the Anax 2 is designed to work on. The Anax 2 is
 saying that diffusing the sound waves inside the ear cup is the better way to "tame" the treble agressiveness by better
 balancing the frequencies before they reach your ear. I like the Anax 2 sound balance better (& I'm not really convinced that
 original dust cover are really doing much to slow down the ear cups inner resonance which I now believe a large portion
 is coming from the grilles)
  
 You are preaching to the choir when you mention removing these grilles. I think that if you're a large company you really have to
 lean toward the side of being conservative ,as the "bean counters" really have a stronger affinity to "Murphy's Law" than Engineers do so that's why they are there, I think the caution exits on the Owners side due to the possibility of having a mishap while
 you were attempting to remove these screens. (It doesn't require rocket science to remove them, but you need a degree of "technical patience" to remove them.) (Sennheiser doesn't offer "Headphone Modder's" extended warranties & this stops more people than the promise of better sound by a long shot)


----------



## maibuN

Is there a Tutorial or something like that how to remove these grilles? I would like to try if I here any differences.
  
 And how do you attach the modding materials in the headphone? Just put it in or using double faced adhesive tape or something like that?


----------



## knowhatimean

I think your best bet might be to get on the list for the " Anax 3 mod build" list (the exact raw materials for Anax 2 mod aren't as easily
 available as you appear to think they might be. The same materials may be but the same sized dimensions aren't as readily found.
  
 I hope your "a bit lazy" doesn't also apply to your patience because you'll need to apply that if you plan on attempting the "grille
 removal mod". If you go back a few pages on this thread you'll find some posting on how to do this. I just followed what Maxx 123
 wrote on this


----------



## johnjen

maibun said:


> Is there a Tutorial or something like that how to remove these grilles? I would like to try if I here any differences.
> 
> And how do you attach the modding materials in the headphone? Just put it in or using double faced adhesive tape or something like that?


 
 I used double sided tape on the metal ring and on the flat plastic support piece in the 'rear' of the ear cavities.
 Then I tucked the outer edge between the ear cushions and the outer support ring the ear cushions attach to.
  
 The shelf liner should be available at any 'well stocked' hardware store,  And I would imagine that the big home center stores (lowes, home depot etc) should also have it.
  
 I have not seen any tutorials, as such but it really isn't that difficult, assuming you have the correct (very small) torx bits.
 The key for me was figuring out how to remove the ear cushions.  Once that 'hurdle' was out of the way the rest was fairly straight forward.
  
 I use my finger nails to pry off the ear cushions, a little bit here and a little bit there until it releases.
 Once the cushion has been removed then you'll have 'better' access to all the torx screws.
  
 And it's usually 'handy' to separate each driver asssmbly from the headband by carefully pushing out the stainless steel pivot pin from underneath.  This pin can be seen when you look down onto the top of the headphones at the 'forward' edge of the 'mounting arm' that curvve down to the rear of the driver assemblies Be aware that there is a spring inside that pivot/attachment 'cavity' that you don't want to loose.
  
 Or you can separate the driver assembly from the headband by removing the 2 screws at the location where the headband actually attaches to the driver assembly/cable attachment location, after removing the ear cushion.
  
 Removal of the driver assemblies from the headband will make the driver assembly less awkward to handle during the removing of the outside grill/shield 
  
 So do be careful and don't 'force' anything as it should come apart 'easily'.  
  
  
 JJ


----------



## maibuN

Thank's for your help. It was quite easy to remove the grill. I also installed Anax 2.0 (thanks to the kind member who sent me the materials to germany - creatology is impossible to get here).
  
 I have the impression that the sound is wider due to the grill removal.


----------



## knowhatimean

maibun said:


> Thank's for your help. It was quite easy to remove the grill. I also installed Anax 2.0 (thanks to the kind member who sent me the materials to germany - creatology is impossible to get here).
> 
> I have the impression that the sound is wider due to the grill removal.


 
 There is a reason it sounds wider. Some of the available "width" info is being "masked" be the "resonance" that the grilles were causing.(Spatial cues are much easier to hear when you start removing mechanical colorations that the headphones are producing)
  
 Joni Mitchell sums this up perfectly in the lyric from "Big Yellow Taxi" ..."You don't know what you've got til it's gone !"


----------



## maibuN

knowhatimean said:


> Joni Mitchell sums this up perfectly in the lyric from "Big Yellow Taxi" ..."You don't know what you've got til it's gone !"


 
  
 That's the reason why I have the hd800 for the third time now


----------



## knowhatimean

At this point I'd have to say whatever slight HD800 colorations do still exist they haven't made themselves known to me for about
 3 days now & that is saying something as the system I'm using them in has an extremely low, quiet noise floor.
  
 Notes appear from a very deep quiet place,but the difference now is that timing of the decay of those notes occurs closer to what you would experience to listening to music in real time so that start of the following note isn't slightly blurred by the overhang of the previous note's decay. This is one of the "hardest tricks to accomplish" when you're listening to recorded music.
  
 If you don't listen exclusively to Acoustic music this is probably overkill for your listening needs, but I am absolutely thrilled that I've been able to reach this level of performance from the HD800. (& I'm certain that my Metrum Hex DAC has really made it possible to hear this performance level) (This was not a great headphone for Orchestral music, it is so now beyond any doubt)
  
 It's absolutely, wildly absurd that these are the same headphones that I'd considered getting rid of several times over the last 3 years.
  
 The other wild thing about this is I'm really not even using the headphone amplifier of my preferred choice yet !!
  
 I love this !!! (I can't believe how articulate the Sounstaging detail is presenting itself on this Naxos recording of Samuel Barber, Orchestral Works,Vol. 2 that I'm currently listening to the width (& now depth & height) is exceptional) I can't believe how much
 those "grilles" were "mucking"( I wanted to use an "F" instead of the"m" I used) up the sound. with the grilles off you "aren't still
 hearing the HD800 along with the music ! what a shame !
  
 Alright, I'll give this thread a rest from me until at least tomorrow.


----------



## V-DiV

So I've been mostly out of serious Head-Fi for the past few years and only listening to my work rig.  But I'm getting my HD800s out again and want to upgrade my home setup which I had to put aside not long after getting the 800s and before I was able to get too far along completing my system. 
  
 My chain is right now
  
 MacBook Pro -- lossless via Fidelia -- optical -- CI Audio VDA-2 nos dac (w/PS) -- Bijou (diy OTL) -- HD800
  
 I've been following threads and reading reviews obsessively for the past month.  I started with the idea to get a new amp, but then decided I needed to clean up my source first and do some tube rolling in the Bijou.  After reading a bunch of DAC reviews I thought it might be a better bang for the buck to get a very good USB to S/PDIF converter now to upgrade my VDA-2 and to prepare for a better DAC later.  But now I'm back to the idea of getting a new DAC first.
  
 So, what do you guys think?
  
 1) USB - S/PDIF plus better interconnects and digital cables
  
    John Kenny Ciunas             ~ $460 incl shipping
    CI Audio Transient Mk II         $699
     Audeophilio AP2                     $579 ($999 w/Pure Power)
    iUSB power as needed           $199

  
 2) DAC
  
     I don't really want to spend much more than $1500 right now, but the 2 DACs I'm most interested in are
     
     NAD M51                      ($2000)                                      
      Metrum Octave mk II    ($1395 w/USB)
           I read with interest Sorrodje's & Zilch0md's commentaries on the Octave
  
     Then there are the other usual suspects

     Grace m920 ($1995 -> $1895)      Benchmark DAC2 L ($1695 w/o remote)
     Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 DSD ($1595)     Mytek Stereo 192 DSD ($1595 -> $1395)
      Anedio D2  ($1470 -> $1249)

  


 Any help appreciated to find my way to a great system for my HD800s.
  
 - Vic


----------



## Blackmore

I am happy owner of this one 
  
  
  
 Quote:


v-div said:


> So I've been mostly out of serious Head-Fi for the past few years and only listening to my work rig.  But I'm getting my HD800s out again and want to upgrade my home setup which I had to put aside not long after getting the 800s and before I was able to get too far along completing my system.
> 
> My chain is right now
> 
> ...


----------



## guido

v-div said:


> So I've been mostly out of serious Head-Fi for the past few years and only listening to my work rig.  But I'm getting my HD800s out again and want to upgrade my home setup which I had to put aside not long after getting the 800s and before I was able to get too far along completing my system.
> 
> My chain is right now
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Do not forget to evaluate the B.M.C Puredac....amazing DAC and superb headphone amp for the HD800


----------



## Priidik

I can second the Puredac, its a fine dac and it has very useful headphone amplifier + good (separate) preamp and remote.
 Good choice esp when not decided which amp to get, as its built in amp is (imo) better than amplifiers i have heard under 1000$ for HD800.


----------



## freedom01

Tell you what. 
Get the combination below in my sig. 

Save the rest of the money. Thank me later.


----------



## olor1n

v-div said:


> So I've been mostly out of serious Head-Fi for the past few years and only listening to my work rig.  But I'm getting my HD800s out again and want to upgrade my home setup which I had to put aside not long after getting the 800s and before I was able to get too far along completing my system.
> 
> My chain is right now
> 
> ...


 

 Replace Fidelia with the latest version of Audirvana+. And shop around for a better price for the M51. They sell for $1000AUD if you're willing to import.


----------



## V-DiV

Thanks for the replies so far. 

Blackmore, your DAC is listed at the link at £2900 which is more than I am willing to spend right now, and I've not heard of that DAC before. There are other DACs I'd be interested in that price range. 

Priidik & guido, I had read about the Puredac but I think I want to stay away from Sabre DACs and I don't get the sense that this is as easily available in the US as some of the others. Also, I would like to put DAC money into the most DAC for the money rather than DAC + amp. My Bijou is already a good amp. I will be looking for a separate high-end amp in the future. 

freedom01, I'm interested in the Schiit stuff, but I'm guessing that my sytem is likely on par with or better than yours. I'm heading upstream (pun intended). . I was looking forward to the Yggdrasil when the estimated price was $1700-1800. But now that it is almost ready to be released, the price estimate is ~$2300 and It will be some time before many people will have them and live with them in their systems to develop a good picture of how this stands.


----------



## V-DiV

olor1n said:


> Replace Fidelia with the latest version of Audirvana+. And shop around for a better price for the M51. They sell for $1000AUD if you're willing to import.




I was planning to try Audirvana+ and/or Amarra. Fidelia was the cool new app at the time. 

If I get convinced that the M51 is the best pairing for the HD800 in this range, I will definitely look to get it for less than the $2000 USD it lists for here. Hmmm, I wonder what shipping and import fees would be from Aus to the US east coast?

Has anyone spent time with both the Octave and M51 with your HD800 and have an opinion/impression to share, or either of these compared to one of the Sabre DACs?

One thing I would miss out on with Octave or M51 is the opportunity to try out DSD.


----------



## preproman

v-div said:


>


 
  
 You thought about going used?   How about the GON?


----------



## Blackmore

No problem, see your point for sure, but I was referring to the one on sale up here, however, its 230v model and you are in US, so, kind of issue there.
  
 Good luck with your search.
  
  
  
 Quote:


v-div said:


> Thanks for the replies so far.
> 
> Blackmore, your DAC is listed at the link at £2900 which is more than I am willing to spend right now, and I've not heard of that DAC before. There are other DACs I'd be interested in that price range.


----------



## V-DiV

preproman said:


> You thought about going used?   How about the GON?


 

 Already been there and saw an M51 and a couple PWD mkii which I guess would be an upgrade over an M51?
  
 Any comparisons between Octave - M51 - PWD mkii ?
  
 I won't have the funds until a weeks from now, but I will definitely be looking there for something fairly new when I am ready to buy.


----------



## preproman

v-div said:


> Already been there and saw an M51 and a couple PWD mkii which I guess would be an upgrade over an M51?
> 
> Any comparisons between Octave - M51 - PWD mkii ?
> 
> I won't have the funds until a weeks from now, but I will definitely be looking there for something fairly new when I am ready to buy.


 

 Well,
  
 I'm sure you're aware the Octave mkII is SE only, I'm not sure if that make difference to you or not.  Saying that, I liked the PWD mkII better than the M51 - the M51 had the much, much better preamp (volume control) if that's important.  
  
 I like the tone of the Octave mkII better that both.  The PWD mkII had more bite or punch or attack but I like the overall tone of the Octave better.  If you can up the ante to for the HEX that would give you XLR outputs and would put you above the PWD mk II and the M51 in SQ  -->> IMO..


----------



## Zoom25

v-div said:


> So I've been mostly out of serious Head-Fi for the past few years and only listening to my work rig.  But I'm getting my HD800s out again and want to upgrade my home setup which I had to put aside not long after getting the 800s and before I was able to get too far along completing my system.
> 
> My chain is right now
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've heard the NAD M51 extensively through many transports. Benchmark DAC-2 and Mytek I've spent a few days with. Honestly, look at the Dangerous Source. The DAC in the Source easily matches the performance of these DACs. Now if you want DSD, then don't go with Dangerous Source, but for any other format, I'd really look at the Source. The headphone amp also performs brilliantly with HD800. I rarely go past 12o clock. It has power on tap. That might be all you need. I'd probably take the Source for HD800 over something like BDA-2 or NAD M51 --> BHA-1.


----------



## V-DiV

Balanced output would be nice to keep options open, but not necessary.  I believe there are some excellent single-ended amps, and Donald North builds single-ended input, balanced output amps (at least Sonnet II).
  
 So you liked the tone of the Octave MkII best of the three with HD800?  Do/did you send the Octave native 44.1 or up-sampled?   I would love to go for the Hex but that is stretching the budget too far.
  
 Also, I don't care about the preamp options (or paying for them).  I don't have any plans to build a nice speaker system.  My wife could care less about hi-end sound.  So I'll keep it to myself.


----------



## zerodeefex

I had a benchmark DAC2 HGC. I strongly prefer the wyrd > ciunas > transDAC stack down converting everything to 16/44 over the DAC2 with all formats including DSD.

The TransDAC is a little performer and can be had for cheap if you can find one.


----------



## V-DiV

Zoom, I had looked briefly at the Dangerous Source website but am skeptical that you can truly get excellent USB conversion + excellent digital to analog conversion + excellent output stage plus all of the studio functions in one box for its reasonable price.  Plenty of gain ("rarely go past 12o clock") doesn't say much about quality of sound.  I don't get my Bijou much past 8 o'clock.  I need to lower the gain so I can use more of my stepped attenuator volume control.  But that won't change the quality of the amplification.
  
 Zerodeefex, do you think you like the transDAC stack better than Benchmark because of a more forgiving sound from the transDAC or because of better USB conversion?  Why would you down-convert.  I would think better, smoother sound would be had by up-converting or native.


----------



## Klots

Any point getting Taurus mk2 instead of BH Mainline if i can get them both at the same price?


----------



## preproman

v-div said:


> Balanced output would be nice to keep options open, but not necessary.  I believe there are some excellent single-ended amps, and Donald North builds single-ended input, balanced output amps (at least Sonnet II).
> 
> So you liked the tone of the Octave MkII best of the three with HD800?  Do/did you send the Octave native 44.1 or up-sampled?   I would love to go for the Hex but that is stretching the budget too far.
> 
> Also, I don't care about the preamp options (or paying for them).  I don't have any plans to build a nice speaker system.  My wife could care less about hi-end sound.  So I'll keep it to myself.


 
  
 Also there are a few Master 7s with HDMI inputs on the for sale forums.  The Master 7 with a DI-2014 (HDMI) would be pretty good choice.


----------



## Zoom25

v-div said:


> Zoom, I had looked briefly at the Dangerous Source website but am skeptical that you can truly get excellent USB conversion + excellent digital to analog conversion + excellent output stage plus all of the studio functions in one box for its reasonable price.  Plenty of gain ("rarely go past 12o clock") doesn't say much about quality of sound.  I don't get my Bijou much past 8 o'clock.  I need to lower the gain so I can use more of my stepped attenuator volume control.  But that won't change the quality of the amplification.


 
 I was super skeptical as well when I ordered in just on the features alone. You'll find a lot more reviews on the Source at gearslutz with people comparing it to a lot more expensive DACs. So far I haven't found one person that didn't like it as a DAC or that it doesn't compete sound wise. I get great results with USB running Amarra and Audirvana in optimized mode. AES works just as well. No clock problems on either input.
  
 I've tried between pretty much all the top dynamics and planars (HE-400, HE-500, HE-6, LCD-2, LCD-3) on the Source and the HD800 by far complements it the best. I only have the HD800 because of the Source. The sound quality is really transparent and never fatiguing. In over a year I've never even thought of any mods or whatsoever. The sound signature is maintained at all volume levels. The bass and vocals are probably the best thing I love about the HD800 and Source combo.
  
 I see you're in the US. I would highly recommend getting a trial. At the very least as a DAC, there is absolutely no reason to not consider this besides DSD.


----------



## V-DiV

Sounds great. I'll have to look more into the Source. 
Thanks,
Vic


----------



## pearljam50000

I've read some reports about distortion when deep bass is played, at the Abyss thread, have you guys exprienced any distortion with the HD800?


----------



## Priidik

klots said:


> Any point getting Taurus mk2 instead of BH Mainline if i can get them both at the same price?


 
 Have you tried HDVA600, you can audition one locally at Valiheli.


----------



## V-DiV

Are they referring to distortion of the headphones from overdriving them or distortion in the amp because it can't drive the phones? I've never heard bass distortion on my HD800s but I don't play them at overly high volumes. Trying to preserve my ears, the were dulled enough in the old days playing in bands.


----------



## koiloco

pearljam50000 said:


> I've read some reports about distortion when deep bass is played, at the Abyss thread, have you guys exprienced any distortion with the HD800?


 
 Nope, I've ran very low freq test tracks on my HD800 and to my ears, I couldn't detect/hear any audible distortion.  But then, I am driving mine with a tube amp so you know how that goes.


----------



## V-DiV

zerodeefex said:


> I had a benchmark DAC2 HGC. I strongly prefer the wyrd > ciunas > transDAC stack down converting everything to 16/44 over the DAC2 with all formats including DSD.
> 
> The TransDAC is a little performer and can be had for cheap if you can find one.




Did you ever run the ciunas into the benchmark to see how the usb conversion compared?


----------



## zerodeefex

v-div said:


> Zoom, I had looked briefly at the Dangerous Source website but am skeptical that you can truly get excellent USB conversion + excellent digital to analog conversion + excellent output stage plus all of the studio functions in one box for its reasonable price.  Plenty of gain ("rarely go past 12o clock") doesn't say much about quality of sound.  I don't get my Bijou much past 8 o'clock.  I need to lower the gain so I can use more of my stepped attenuator volume control.  But that won't change the quality of the amplification.
> 
> Zerodeefex, do you think you like the transDAC stack better than Benchmark because of a more forgiving sound from the transDAC or because of better USB conversion?  Why would you down-convert.  I would think better, smoother sound would be had by up-converting or native.




Nope. Plankton extraction is (surprisingly) slightly better on the TransDAC from what I remember of the DAC2 and tonal balance is better although it's a little smoother than I'd like.

The DAC2 tries to smooth over the SABRE treble resulting in an overall loss of resolution. The X-Sabre does a bit better job than the DAC2 does. Something funny going on with the DAC2, but oli enjoyed it at the time. Not the DAC I'd choose north of $1500, though. At that price I'd use a modi 2 uber or geek out 450 and save the difference for the yggdrasil.


----------



## zerodeefex

v-div said:


> Did you ever run the ciunas into the benchmark to see how the usb conversion compared?




Didn't have the Ciunas at the time. But doubtful as USB was better than coax on the DAC2.


----------



## V-DiV

zerodeefex said:


> At that price I'd use a modi 2 uber or geek out 450 and save the difference for the yggdrasil.


 
  
 That's another possibility, to save my money for the moment until I can rationalize paying for an amp in the next price level up.  By that time there would be a lot of opinions on the Yggdrasil with the HD800.  I think my Channel Island Audio VDA-2 DAC is ok for now if I improve the data link from the computer to it.  The few reviews of it that were available when I got it suggested that it was in the same ballpark as the Benchmark Dac 1 and the PS DLIII.  That's why I asked about the Ciunas.


----------



## V-DiV

v-div said:


> That's another possibility, to save my money for the moment until I can rationalize paying for an amp in the next price level up.  By that time there would be a lot of opinions on the Yggdrasil with the HD800.  I think my Channel Island Audio VDA-2 DAC is ok for now if I improve the data link from the computer to it.  The few reviews of it that were available when I got it suggested that it was in the same ballpark as the Benchmark Dac 1 and the PS DLIII.  That's why I asked about the Ciunas.


 

 This begs the question, does a DAC such as Octave or M51 leave one wanting a better front end for the HD800 or will it satisfy so that one can spend one's time/money pursuing great music?  And if this level DAC is not an end point, is a PWD or Yggdrasil or Hex, or BADA or QB-9 an end point, or does it never end?


----------



## kapanak

For me, the Auralic Vega is the DAC endpoint goal.


----------



## wahsmoh

I don't want to derail the thread from the point of the topic which is the HD800. Does anyone have experience though with the new Aune S16 DAC? It uses the new AKM4495EQ which has selectable filters and is 32-bit/768k DSD, DXD capable. It also has two Crystek VCXOs which aren't cheap and has a balanced DAC section with SE built-in headphone amp. My goal though is to use it primarily as a DAC. It is also $599 online with suggested retail of $699 but has top quality components.


----------



## zilch0md

v-div said:


> This begs the question, does a DAC such as Octave or M51 leave one wanting a better front end for the HD800 or will it satisfy so that one can spend one's time/money pursuing great music?  And if this level DAC is not an end point, is a PWD or Yggdrasil or Hex, or BADA or QB-9 an end point, or does it never end?


 
  
 It seems there's always room for improvement with the HD800 - the more you give it, the more it rewards - but, somewhat in answer to your question, I can say that the non-oversampling Metrum Octave MkII had a much more dramatic impact on satisfying the HD800, in replacing my use of the OPPO HA-1's oversampling ESS9018 DAC, than the improvement made by the Metrum Aurix amp (with its minimalist design allowing me to hear the DAC with very little influence), above what I was already enjoying with the very affordable NuForce HA-200 - an inherently, low-feedback, truly single-ended, Class A amp that in and of itself offered a big improvement over the OPPO HA-1's amp section (which I absolutely love for use with every headphone other than the HD800).
  
 OK, that was a mouthful, but it might make sense if you read it twice.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Breaking it down like this might help...
  
*OPPO HA-1 DAC > HA-1 amp > HD800* --- This was unacceptably bright, fatiguing, analytical, sterile, brittle, sibilant.
  
*Metrum Octave MkII *> HA-1 amp > HD800 --- This was a huge improvement, making the HD800 a "keeper" after seven months of love/hate relationship and thinking about selling it.  It was suddenly much less fatiguing, more natural sounding, not nearly as sterile, but there was still a lingering brittle edginess to the treble - not as bad as with the ESS9018, but there, nevertheless.
  
 Metrum Octave MkII >* NuForce HA-200* > HD800 --- This was my "final solution" for about three months (ending suddenly with a good sale price on the Aurix) and I still feel comfortable recommending the NuForce HA-200 - independent of its low cost. *I could honestly live with this chain for the HD800, forever.*  The HA-200's contribution took away the last remaining brittleness, but it does so with a wee bit of compromise to detail retrieval compared to the Metrum Aurix. In a way, it's slightly more forgiving than the Aurix with bad recordings, but not overly so - certainly not to the point I can't enjoy the detail of well-mastered recordings with the HA-200.  
  
 Metrum Octave MkII > *Metrum Aurix* > HD800 --- This is my current "final solution" for the HD800.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  In overall bang-for-the-buck at dealing with the HD800, there wasn't much the Aurix could do to improve on the NuForce HA-200, but in terms of traits that have nothing to do with "fixing" the HD800, the Aurix has been very rewarding. The Aurix is higher resolving and more transparent than the HA-200 (this is almost a tie, so don't imagine the difference here to be dramatic.)   But unlike the OPPO HA-1, which is also highly resolving and transparent, the Aurix is just as non-fatiguing, non-analytical, non-brittle, and non-sibilant as the HA-200. And better still, the Aurix has a natural, euphonic, analog, organic quality that's not in the least bit colored or thick or syrupy, but rather like the best of neutral and un-tube-like tube amps, more so when the Aurix gain switch is set to 10 dB, engaging the step-up transformer.  But again, this difficult to describe bonus of the Aurix is very subtle - not dramatic - it's more like the absence of something distracting than the presence of something attractive. It's more like the removal of what we associate with solid state reproduction. 
  
 I think the hero of this last chain, for making the HD800 happy in a pro-active way, is the Octave MkII. The minimalist, zero-feedback Aurix, on the other hand, is exceedingly passive in its contributions, even with 10 dB of Gain engaged - it's just getting out of the DAC's way, except to displace other amps that were themselves, to varying degrees, a source of irritation, or at least, limitation for the HD800.
  


Spoiler: A previously posted pic...










  
 Mike


----------



## longbowbbs

I have been enjoying the Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 DSDse for a while now and it is a great combo with the HD800's. They have a great deal on the DAC1 atm which now can do DSD.


----------



## olor1n

v-div said:


> This begs the question, does a DAC such as Octave or M51 leave one wanting a better front end for the HD800 or will it satisfy so that one can spend one's time/money pursuing great music?  And if this level DAC is not an end point, is a PWD or Yggdrasil or Hex, or BADA or QB-9 an end point, or does it never end?


 
  
 Only you can answer that question.
  
 I've lived with the M51 for some time and have not once entertained the notion of upgrading, despite the plethora of components that have since entered the market and garnered praise. My previous dac, the Gungnir, presented great bang for buck, but there were aspects of its sound signature with the HD800 that I just couldn't live with (fatiguing, particularly when paired with the Mjolnir). The M51 alleviated all of that and I didn't have to pay megabucks for it ($1.2kAUD at the time). I'm sure there are much better dacs now, but I suspect that perceived improvements would be quite subtle and, for me, not worth the effort and expense. I'm happy to remain blissfully ignorant though.
  
 Everyone here is aware of how a minute change can make or break an HD800 system. Every single step in my chain has a bearing - from my playback software, to the M51's firmware, to even the cables I use. My system is dialled in "just right" for my preferences and it's cured me of audionervosa and upgraditis. For me, it's been "end game" for a long time. The only component that's drawn my attention is the Schiit Rag amp, but that will only be a serious consideration when I can accommodate speakers in my system.


----------



## johnjen

knowhatimean said:


> There is a reason it sounds wider. Some of the available "width" info is being "masked" be the "resonance" that the grilles were causing.(Spatial cues are much easier to hear when you start removing mechanical colorations that the headphones are producing)
> 
> Joni Mitchell sums this up perfectly in the lyric from "Big Yellow Taxi" ..."You don't know what you've got til it's gone !"


 
  
 Um, that may or may not be the ‘source’’ of the pinched width of the sound stage.
  
 My SAA modded 800's have no shelf liner, creatology foam, felt, nor inner covers, and the spatial cues are pinpoint precise and expansive, where the recording calls for such.
  
 I suspect there are 'other' influences at play.
  
 But what I do notice as a result of all of these (Anax & SAA) mods, is a major reduction in LFF (Listener Fatigue Factor), which 'allows' me to turn up the DRC (Dynamic Range Control, aka, the volume control), to 'higher' levels before I reach 'too much' and don't wish to go any higher, mostly due to the (lack of) ‘comfort' level of the SPL (Sound Pressure Level).  
 When the LFF is improved, by whatever means, the SQ raises accordingly.  
 I hear this as an increase in the degree of being ‘in focus’, for the entire acoustic presentation.  
 And interestingly, as the LFF is improved, this 'additional' degree of being ‘in focus’ remains quite evident, even when the volume is turned down.
  
 What this allows is a greater dynamic range in the playback of the music, which in turn increases all of the subtle cues (spatiality, and all the other related harmonics associated to each instrument/voice), not to mention better bass due to our hearing's natural frequency gain of the low end, as the overall SPL is raised.  
  
 And there seems to be another 'mechanism' at play as well.
 As the 'choke points' in the entire system are ameliorated, the overall 'get out of its own way' factor 'allows' more of the original signal to arrive at the transducers, in the first place.
 And
 As we reduce the transducers ‘unwanted/undesirable’ acoustic 'traits', this can also 'allow' more of the actual signal to be heard, because these ‘bad’ traits no longer act as a 'mask', which means the need for further masking the mask, can become both unnecessary to begin with, and unwanted.
  
 But as we all know improvements to the transducer (speakers, headphones) are usually most effective.
 And these types of mods, such as adding masking with foam/felt, experimental removal of 'extra' parts (grills, etc), have been popular forever.  
 And further it is also commonly held that these sorts of improvements can sometimes be quite significant, as is the case before us.
 So it can be a challenge for us DIY’rs to figure out the ‘best’ balance between different mods.
  
 Which has lead me to the understanding that as further 'choke points' are removed from the system, it is able to resolve to even greater degrees of inner definition, and be able to deliver 'more' of each instrument/voice, with a greater sense of acoustic 'realness' as the level of precision and resolution is increased.
  
 That's another thing I’ve noticed, namely, as our systems become more and more precise and resolving, it becomes all to easy to assign causation of the undesirable sonic traits, to an incorrect originating source of the 'irritation'.
 But not always…  
 Like, with some 800's that have a 'resonant?' peak in the ≈ 5-8KHz region.
 Or (fill in your favorite example here)…
  
 But with any reduction of the causes of LFF, the overall sound level seems to lower at the same time that the DRC has been raised.  Which is rather curious, if you think about it. (I raise the DRC and the volume goes down????)   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Because now, to reach the same level of LFF as before the last improvement of LFF, the DRC needs to be increased, even further… 
  
 It sounds like the acoustic presentation seems to present less ‘energy’ (SPL). And due to the reduction of the causative factors of LFF and other choke points, the available acoustic energy seems more tightly ‘bound’ to its original ‘parent’/source. 
  
 Which points back to the increase in the Dynamic Range, because while there is less ‘smeared’ acoustic energy (since more of it is ‘bound’ to its acoustic source), the amount of silence between individual notes for each instrument/voice/source of acoustic energy, has increased.  And so there is a greater amount of time where less acoustic energy is being generated, and we can perceive this as lower SPL. 
  
 IOW, when the amount of available acoustic energy is aligned and associated more precisely and accurately with its original source, there is more complete coupling of the original sonic signal to its re-created acoustical cousin, which also means there is less acoustic energy where it doesn’t belong.
  
 Which is another way of saying the sound level seems to drop due to the reduction of LFF, as the entire system has gotten ‘out of it’s own way’, all the more.
  
 And, "You don't know what you've got til it's gone !" indeed!  :thumb
  
  
 JJ


----------



## V-DiV

zilch0md said:


> Metrum Octave MkII > *Metrum Aurix* > HD800 --- This is my current "final solution" for the HD800.


 
  
 If I end up with the Octave, I will definitely give the Aurix serious consideration.  Sounds like a great pair.  I'm drawn to this company designing its rather unique circuits.
  
  


longbowbbs said:


> I have been enjoying the Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 DSDse for a while now and it is a great combo with the HD800's. They have a great deal on the DAC1 atm which now can do DSD.


 
  
 The DAC1 deal is definitely tempting even though I am more drawn to non-Sabre DACs.  But it's also DSD capable.  Hmmm, resolution vs. the possibility of harsh treble with HD800???
  
  


olor1n said:


> Only you can answer that question.
> 
> I've lived with the M51 for some time and have not once entertained the notion of upgrading


 
  
 That's what I'm talking about!  Maybe my HD800 wants that high up-sampling smoothness of the M51.


----------



## knowhatimean

johnjen said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > There is a reason it sounds wider. Some of the available "width" info is being "masked" be the "resonance" that the grilles were causing.(Spatial cues are much easier to hear when you start removing mechanical colorations that the headphones are producing)
> ...


 
 "LFF" I like this term tremendously & I'm sure I will have occasion to use it. Fortunately it doesn't appear to be that symptomatic
 of my listening lately 
 (He says as he gives a repeat listen to Paul Lewis & the BBC SO proceed through Beethoven's "Emperor
 Concerto; if only he would take the same tempi that Kempf takes in the Adagio this would be the "perfect" Emperor)...(Sorry, lost my
 train of thought, but I think "it's returned to the Station).
  
 You given me much food for thought here as I believe we're on the same page. I tend to be a bit less diplomatic in calling real time
 acoustic energy events, colorations, as the former simply takes many more keystrokes to describe & certain aural elements are
 plainly discernable as not being part of the sound that originates from a recording. particularly when you don't hear the same colorations of the same music in question played through a different tansducer..
  
 I may have other "semi-literate" points I had intended to discuss , but I have prior engagement to attend to so I'll say as A. Hitchcock
 would say "Good Eeeev-ening"(cue the Victor Herbert music)


----------



## olor1n

@V-DiV - I implore you to give the latest version of Audirvana+ (2.0.9) a trial. I haven't used Fidelia for a while but I did prefer the older versions of Audirvana to it. This latest iteration though is something else. The staging is greatly improved and there is added weight to the low end. The upper registers are smoother, without sacrificing resolution. It seems more resolving as previously subtle cues now shimmer with detail. The smoothness and lack of fatigue temps me every time to crank my amp beyond my normal (sensible) listening levels. I've always maintained that the HD800 was a rocking headphone but it's gone up a notch of late. The improvements in sq are quite apparent through my system.


----------



## V-DiV

I'll definitely give it a try.  Have you compared it to Amarra?


----------



## johnjen

knowhatimean said:


> "LFF" I like this term tremendously & I'm sure I will have occasion to use it. Fortunately it doesn't appear to be that symptomatic
> of my listening lately
> (He says as he gives a repeat listen to Paul Lewis & the BBC SO proceed through Beethoven's "Emperor
> Concerto; if only he would take the same tempi that Kempf takes in the Adagio this would be the "perfect" Emperor)...(Sorry, lost my
> ...


 
 I look forward to reading your thoughts.  :thumb
  
 And when the 'mechanism' of LFF first 'appeared' on my 'radar' it struck me as 'important'.
 The thing is I'm not sure I could 'define it' well enough to use it to 'point at' some fundamental source or cause of what is a fairly common 'problem', namely what is 'Listener Fatigue', really…
  
 It seems fairly obvious when we hear it, but taking the next step to define it, seems just outside of my/our grasp, at least for now.
  
 JJ


----------



## knowhatimean

johnjen said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > "LFF" I like this term tremendously & I'm sure I will have occasion to use it. Fortunately it doesn't appear to be that symptomatic
> ...


 
 I canceled my commitment as I was just enjoying my listening session too much !
  
 Possible causes for LFF huh ? Let's try this
  
 Our ear drums need a certain amount of milliseconds to process every sound that they hear . The closer together or the longer the
 duration of sounds taxes our hearing mechanisms as we've disrupted the interval of rest time our eardrums will have between these
 impulses. For myself it's a matter of the duration of my listening sessions.
  
 I simply don't care to listen at a level any louder then where I think I can hear the lowest level of sound fully at a slightly lower than medium sound level (This normally ends up being a challenge with new Orchestal recordings, so I never start listening to a new recording first). To be honest the better sounding that everything becomes the greater my challenge to not end up ear fatigued has become as I have not even realized that I've become ear fatigued sometimes until I woken up the next day.
  
 I've listened to several things tonight were I can't recall the recorded detail ever grabbing my attention the way it did this evening.
  
 Other than replacing my Burson Soloist hp amp with perhaps the Sennheiser HDVA 600 I'm satisfied with how "Articulate" & devoid
 of non musical frequency contouring my system has become
  
 Keep me updated on any new insights you may have regarding LFF as it's also on my radar for reasons I've mentioned
  
 steve


----------



## Zoom25

Your central auditory nervous system can PERCEIVE certain signals/stimulus to be fatiguing either based on frequency and amplitude relationship or from signal masking where your nervous system is working extra hard to get the relevant material from the signal. This is where jitter, FR, impulse response all play a part in fatigue.


----------



## kapanak

Question for other owners: how loud approximately do you listen to your HD800? I was curious, since I measured my own listening level with a SPL meter and realized I listen to music anywhere from 57-74 dB levels, depending on the track. All measured in a very quiet room with no other background noise. 30dB background measurement. Anything above 80dB was unbearable for me and would give me a headache after 10 seconds. Unsurprisingly, no distortion of any sort at higher volumes of course. 

Chain: Custom PC - > Concero HD - > Valhalla 2 - > HD800.

Also, I am surprised as to how easily and loudly my HTC One M8 can drive the HD800.


----------



## lin0003

My guess is around 75db, definitely not above 80.


----------



## Priidik

kapanak said:


> Question for other owners: how loud approximately do you listen to your HD800? I was curious, since I measured my own listening level with a SPL meter and realized I listen to music anywhere from 57-74 dB levels, depending on the track. All measured in a very quiet room with no other background noise. 30dB background measurement. Anything above 80dB was unbearable for me and would give me a headache after 10 seconds. Unsurprisingly, no distortion of any sort at higher volumes of course.
> 
> Chain: Custom PC - > Concero HD - > Valhalla 2 - > HD800.
> 
> Also, I am surprised as to how easily and loudly my HTC One M8 can drive the HD800.


 
 I would think many will listen to levels above 90dB.
 Recording engineers listen in 80-90dB range.
 Also spl measurements are not trivial to take, there are standards and specialised setups for different scenarios. Also what does this nr represent on a time scale, RMS, short term, peak?
  
 My guess is i am listening anywhere around 60-110dB range. Think of live concerts, it is ~100dB loud. Sometimes more.
 HD800 will go even higher though, i can feel my ears move 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, but that is seriously fatiguing to my ears.
  
 Food for thought: at 96dB loudness can one get full 16bit resolution. Sure on a real life recording through a real life dac, more like 12bits are possible, so 72dB dynamic range on top of noise. 
 But i feel it is sometimes necessary to go over 70dB to hear everything the recording offers.


----------



## V-DiV

priidik said:


> I would think many will listen to levels above 90dB.
> Recording engineers listen in 80-90dB range.
> My guess is i am listening anywhere around 60-110dB range. Think of live concerts, it is ~100dB loud. Sometimes more.




You are referring to rock & pop concerts. Jazz & classical concerts are not so loud, although even an un-amplified orchestra can get quite loud in loud passages. 

Older rock & pop recordings had dynamic range. They went back and forth between loud and not so loud. Now everything on CD is compressed to be always loud. this gives the ears no break. This causes fatigue. This causes ear damage much more quickly. Be careful with your ears.


----------



## Sorrodje

v-div said:


> This begs the question, does a DAC such as Octave or M51 leave one wanting a better front end for the HD800 or will it satisfy so that one can spend one's time/money pursuing great music?  And if this level DAC is not an end point, is a PWD or Yggdrasil or Hex, or BADA or QB-9 an end point, or does it never end?


 
  
 End point or not is purely a matter of personal Choice.
  
 The Mertrum Octave is  a great dac for the HD800. But I'm selling mine because I feel it's not my end point and I want to see if the grasse is greener elsewhere. I think I'm sold though : R2R dacs have my preference . I'll wait to save money and purchase the Yggy. I hope this dac to bring on the table what I miss with the Octave : more transparency and resolution. 
  
 Fortunately , My Beresford Caïman mkII is at least as good as the Octave. with it, I can keep the analog tone , I lose the thick and bodied timbres and textures but I gain some resolution . With the Yggy I hope to eat the cake ( R2R bodied sound) and keep it ( resolution and transparency).
  
 I purchased a Meier DACCORD too. I hope this is a step up from the Caïman . 
  
 My DAC quest is not over.


----------



## knowhatimean

zoom25 said:


> Your central auditory nervous system can PERCEIVE certain signals/stimulus to be fatiguing either based on frequency and amplitude relationship or from signal masking where your nervous system is working extra hard to get the relevant material from the signal. This is where jitter, FR, impulse response all play a part in fatigue.


 
 Given this information our "CANS" (Is that a coincidence that's what these first letter spell; or did you plan that ?) appear to have
 the ability to go into various modes of overdrive simply from the fact they are trying to react to an "overabundance" of "direct"or "closely
 patterned like sounds" rather than "random sound patterns"(which it can discard aimost immediately as a "1 & done" processing situations).
  
 Being Audiophiles that's an unacceptable proposition as we're often way more concerned with "how" something may sound than what it"is" that we're actually listening to !
  
 The truth is we're setting ourselves up for "fatigue" through our over attentiveness to what we're listening to by how we're listening to it
  
 The next time you talk with your "non Audio nut" freinds see how often they mention various "SQ" features of what they've listened to
  
 I guess we have to learn to treat our "CANS" like the Kit-Kat comercial a bit more often (Gimme a break...Gimme a break...etc !)


----------



## zilch0md

This was really enjoyable reading, John!
  
 Quote:


johnjen said:


> Spoiler: johnjen's fascinating contribution...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It reminds me of comments made by knowwhatImean, in this post to the Metrum Aurix thread:
  


knowhatimean said:


> The HD800 has always appeared pretty "Enigmatic" in terms of it Sensitivity Rating to me. The problem that I run into is they really don"t display the "less aggressive full tonality" until I've raised my volume level slightly higher than I prefer to listen at. This tonality seems to suddenly just "pop" into place. As great as they sound when I reach that very narrow window of volume, I can be certain I will be ear fatigued at some point when I'm done listening (As I am at this moment).
> 
> [snip]


 
  
 Mike


----------



## mrscotchguy

Thought I would chime in on the thread since I've owned my HD800 (earlier serial, No.4xxx).  I finally found a configuration that I'm happy with.  Everything else I had tried before left me looking for something else or expecting more.  My experience with Sabre chips left me almost never enjoying my headphones.  So I ended up with a Wolfson WM8741 dac by Audio-GD.  This is just forgiving enough where I can still enjoy my streaming without being forced to move down to a more forgiving headphone in my arsenal.
  
 But to the reason for my post...  I'm curious if anyone has played around with positioning of the HD800 relative to the ear.  Due to the massive cups, there's quite a bit of play in where one can position the cans.   I find that depending on where I place the driver relative to my ear canal, the sound changes quite dramatically.  I'm sure the topic has been discussed, I know it has with many other headphones, but for me it's never been such a change in sound stage and frequency.


----------



## zilch0md

knowhatimean said:


> You given me much food for thought here as I believe we're on the same page.


 
  
 Doh!  I've just read farther down the thread and see that you two have already met.


----------



## zilch0md

mrscotchguy said:


> Thought I would chime in on the thread since I've owned my HD800 (earlier serial, No.4xxx).  I finally found a configuration that I'm happy with.  Everything else I had tried before left me looking for something else or expecting more.  My experience with Sabre chips left me almost never enjoying my headphones.  So I ended up with a Wolfson WM8741 dac by Audio-GD.  This is just forgiving enough where I can still enjoy my streaming without being forced to move down to a more forgiving headphone in my arsenal.
> 
> But to the reason for my post...  I'm curious if anyone has played around with positioning of the HD800 relative to the ear.  Due to the massive cups, there's quite a bit of play in where one can position the cans.   I find that depending on where I place the driver relative to my ear canal, the sound changes quite dramatically.  I'm sure the topic has been discussed, I know it has with many other headphones, but for me it's never been such a change in sound stage and frequency.


 
  
 Great question!  I've been meaning to post for some time now, but thought it perhaps too unique to my ears, that I prefer to put the HD800 low on my head, with my ears at the top of the cups - and with the cups set as far forward on my head as possible, too.  So, low and forward.
  
 Mike


----------



## Sorrodje

Low and forward too for me .


----------



## bearFNF

I have them centered vertically and forward horizontally.  The headband is also centered fore and aft on the top of my head (this controls the rotation of the cups).


----------



## Zoom25

knowhatimean said:


> Given this information our "CANS" (Is that a coincidence that's what these first letter spell; or did you plan that ?) appear to have
> the ability to go into various modes of overdrive simply from the fact they are trying to react to an "overabundance" of "direct"or "closely
> patterned like sounds" rather than "random sound patterns"(which it can discard aimost immediately as a "1 & done" processing situations).
> 
> ...


 

 LOL it's either CNS or CANS. I much prefer CANS.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yeah you pretty much described it:
 - excess energy at a particular frequency can cause a temporary or permanent hearing loss. Like when you go to a concert but are still far away from the speakers or listen to headphones loudly...you'll get temporary hearing loss because your micro cilia (hair cells) are over fried and so don't vibrate in response to the SPL....kinda like a decrease in sensitivity. If it's a temporary loss, your own cochlea's FR changes for awhile but it will recover after some rest. The hair cells corresponding to high frequencies are typically the first to get fatigued/damaged in practical use. 
  
 CANS - this is a lot harder to study. There's pretty much three ways to study this phenomena:
  
 1) Pure sound analysis - Fully objective study. Here you measure things like auditory masking, phase difference, amplitude vs Frequency (FR), impulse response...auditory masking works differently varying frequency and how it responds to time intervals - you have less of a window with high frequencies to mess things up. With low frequencies, it's a bit less of a problem.
  
 2) You get people to listen to stuff and keep a track of what they are listening to and all the objective measurement. Next you simply ask them for their experience
  
 3) Measure brain activity in the CANS and areas corresponding with it as people listen to music. Try to figure out what's what and get some kind of a model going. Like is there an increase in brain activity responsible for interpreting when the music is a bit 'blurry'? Does the brain get fatigued in a particular order?
  
 4) Somehow get live feed of how the ear cells are responding and if they drop their response.
  
  
 That's all I am going to say about that on this thread. It's more suitable for the sound science forum, I highly doubt people care about this on the HD800 thread.


----------



## mrscotchguy

Thanks everyone for responding. I sometimes need to reaffirm that I'm not going crazy and just hearing things. 

I'm certain there's a sweet spot where the sound is more vocal and mid centric, and another spot where soundstage and realism are spot on. 

I picked up the remastered Zeppelin II album, and just re-fell in love with my HD800s. So much that I gave then a good ol' q-tip cleaning!


----------



## knowhatimean

That was my thought also, this being the " The HD800 Impression Thread", but decided that as long as I included some
 "levity" with what I was saying it wouldn't draw too much criticism !
  
 The "ironies" of scientific explanation have built in natural humor if we take a more humanistic view of it. I'm all in if & when they
 start a "Science of the Discovery of Obviousness from Life Experiences" forum
  
 So to keep the spirit of the thread current: Does anyone who uses the Ragnarok with their HD800 think it has sufficient enough
 capability to also use as an amp to power a pair of Magneplanar 2.7 QR loudspeakers (only to modest levels of course) ?
  
 thanks
 -steve


----------



## kapanak

knowhatimean said:


> That was my thought also, this being the " The HD800 Impression Thread", but decided that as long as I included some
> "levity" with what I was saying it wouldn't draw too much criticism !
> 
> The "ironies" of scientific explanation have built in natural humor if we take a more humanistic view of it. I'm all in if & when they
> ...




I can't comment on the specific speaker you have mentioned, but in a recent compassion and testing I did with a variety of amps for my HD800, the Ragnarok drove my HD800 better than any of the other amps. Second place was Auralic Taurus MKII. 

It also drove my Triton One floorstanding speakers as well as any of my receivers.

Unfortunately, I don't own either of the two amps, since money isn't as readily available as it was years ago lol... But I'm thinking about some house cleaning and selling some speakers and lower end headphones and equipment to fund my headphones hobby. Been eyeing the Auralic Vega and either the Ragnarok or the Taurus MKII for a few months now


----------



## pearljam50000

"14 – 44100 Hz (- 3 dB)"
Can the HD800 reach 14hz? what is the lowest frequency you guys have been able to hear on the HD800? 
Thanks.


----------



## zerodeefex

kapanak said:


> I can't comment on the specific speaker you have mentioned, but in a recent compassion and testing I did with a variety of amps for my HD800, the Ragnarok drove my HD800 better than any of the other amps. Second place was Auralic Taurus MKII.
> 
> It also drove my Triton One floorstanding speakers as well as any of my receivers.
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't own either of the two amps, since money isn't as readily available as it was years ago lol... But I'm thinking about some house cleaning and selling some speakers and lower end headphones and equipment to fund my headphones hobby. Been eyeing the Auralic Vega and either the Ragnarok or the Taurus MKII for a few months now


 
  
 Sell your gear and get the Yggy/Rag combo. The Yggy is cheaper than the Vega by $1200 and, having heard both, I'd take the Yggy over the Vega any day of the week.


----------



## citraian

zerodeefex said:


> Sell your gear and get the Yggy/Rag combo. The Yggy is cheaper than the Vega by $1200 and, having heard both, I'd take the Yggy over the Vega any day of the week.



Could you post a more detailed comparison between the Vega and the Yggy?


----------



## knowhatimean

So last night while listening to things, I decided to switch out the digital cable I was using between my Auraliti digital file player &
 my Metrum Hex DAC back to the High Fidelity Cables CT-1 cable I had taken out because I just didn't care for the ultra distinct
 characteristics I would hear from my Hfm HE-6 (My "stock HD800s wouldn't worked in the slightest).
  
 The HD800 just continued to show it's current "finesse" at playing "just" the music.The funny thing is some people are perfectly happy "doing stock", but I think that a lot of those same people fall back to heavily on "Murphy's Law"
  
 I'm of the belief that Murphy was a conservative pessimist who rarely strove to change the status of things as they were presented
 to him regardless of the potential for improvement out of the fear for further catastrophe. Learning from his mistakes was something
 he kept on a back burner (which eventually did lead to his house burning down & killing him in the process)
  
 (look it up: steveapedia) (hey if wiki can have credibility so can steve !)
  
 .Murphy wouldn't have made the "grade" as an HD800 modder !
  
 (You can't tell me with almost 1200 pgs in this thread there haven' been other posting by the "Sanity Challenged" (Gotta run; there a NHL game on now)


----------



## kapanak

zerodeefex said:


> Sell your gear and get the Yggy/Rag combo. The Yggy is cheaper than the Vega by $1200 and, having heard both, I'd take the Yggy over the Vega any day of the week.




Having heard the Vega with many amps and compared to some DACs, I know so far it is without competition in terms of performance and quality, so I'd definitely keep an eye out for Yggy if it can truly best Vega. I'd love to hear more detailed comparison, since very few people have actually heard the Yggy, and even fewer both Yggy and Vega.

Still, feature-wise, Vega wins out though, but not sure if SQ-wise, since I haven't heard both yet.


----------



## gevorg

zerodeefex said:


> Sell your gear and get the Yggy/Rag combo. The Yggy is cheaper than the Vega by $1200 and, having heard both, I'd take the Yggy over the Vega any day of the week.




But Vega supports DSD, has a nice display/futuristic look, and rated class A+ on Stereophile.


----------



## kapanak

gevorg said:


> But Vega supports DSD, has a nice display/futuristic look, and rated class A+ on Stereophile.


 

 I know you are being somewhat sarcastic, but those are valid points regardless. An unproven product vs. a well received product is the difference here.


----------



## knowhatimean

I believe I've changed my thinking on which headphone amp I'll go with to put a nice finishing touch on my Metrum Hex / HD800 connection after reinserting all of my High Fidelity Cables (CT-1 digital cable & analog interconnects) back into my system as the HD800 are sounding....just exceptional from an only fair single ended Burson Soloist that sits on the very slightly (maybe a gnat's hair width)cool side of neutral sounding . I think the Metrum Aurix will make a terrific fit with everything else .After putting the CT-1 interconnects back in I honestly believe these cables are working at a comparable to Balanced sound level (luckily they do perform at level (My riskiest  audio expediture ever, but I don't know of many people I trust as well as my Audio dealer , John at the Cable Co.,
 I still get a slight case of the "Heebee Jeebees") when I think about the small "system" priced cable buy I made) but 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Phew! I had some great fortune ! It's just become evident the HE-6 (even with a few mods) aren't nearly neutral enough to perform at this level.
  
 I always seem to forget to mention how big a part using an Equitech 1.5 Q Balance Audio Transformer conditioner plays in how everything always sounds If I had to rate how much more a difference this makes then when I was using a Power Plant P500 I'd have
 to think about that a long time (just to be diplomatic, as it appears to be pretty significant factor
  
 (I can't figure out what I'm listening to at this moment but the Royal Concertgebouw Orchesta Hall is sounding just great from my seat)
  
 (Even the applause has the correct slightly lower tonal pitch as youre  hearing the initial fundamental sound sound of hands tapping palms before you hear the harmonic continuation of the applause)
  
 later
 -steve


----------



## V-DiV

mrscotchguy said:


> I picked up the remastered Zeppelin II album, and just re-fell in love with my HD800s. So much that I gave then a good ol' q-tip cleaning!


 
  
 Did Jimmy P. leave the volume levels similar to the originals or did he compress it all to max out the volume and kill the dynamics?


----------



## Dopaminer

I`m leaving you all, my fräulein, for a brutal chinese dominatrix . . . 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/754300/sennheiser-hd800


----------



## Mach3

dopaminer said:


> I`m leaving you all, my fräulein, for a brutal chinese dominatrix . . .
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/754300/sennheiser-hd800


 
 Something tells me you'll be back in the future.


----------



## NZtechfreak

mach3 said:


> Something tells me you'll be back in the future.




...or maybe not... I sold my HD800 after re-purchasing the 6, can't see myself getting the HD800 again.


----------



## Dopaminer

mach3 said:


> Something tells me you'll be back in the future.


 

 I love the thing; I just don`t love collecting gear.  I already know there will be regrets . . . . .


----------



## Mach3

dopaminer said:


> I love the thing; I just don`t love collecting gear.  I already know there will be regrets . . . . .


 
 I need to trim the herd too in my headphone stable. Got too many, don't know which one to keep. Too scared of selling the wrong one then regretting later.


----------



## Sorrodje

dopaminer said:


> I`m leaving you all, my fräulein, for a brutal chinese dominatrix . . .
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/754300/sennheiser-hd800


 
  
  
 Congrats Dopaminer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 We don"t see so much back and forth between HD800 and Audeze for example but Back and forth between HE-6 and HD800 are really frequent. That's interesting and I would really like to give a serious listen to this Hifiman.  I'm more into stats right now but I won't forget the HE-6 for sure.


----------



## Dopaminer

sorrodje said:


> Congrats Dopaminer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks mon frere.


----------



## Dopaminer

Fellas,

 I am leaving this party; really I am.  I was just grazing Ebay to see what`s going on with HD800 prices there, and I came across this auction for an pretty damned gorgeous cable: 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Q-Audio-HD-800-Balanced-Headphone-Cable-for-Sennheiser-Upgrade-92-Retail-280-/171662746566?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27f7e5a3c6
  
 The seller has a good rep.  The price is just nuts and there`s only 13 hours remaining . . .   
 I`m almost thinking to buy it just to add as a sweetener for my HD800 sale !  
  
 d


----------



## pearljam50000

Humm the earcup hinge looks fragile. 
 Has anyone had any problem with it?


----------



## icebear

Apparently the HD800 is the most reliable of any TOTL headphones with the highest production number (serial # about 33k now?).
 I have not seen any reports of driver failures, channel imbalance or broken hinges for that matter. I have mine for  a little over a year and no issues


----------



## pearljam50000

That's good news


----------



## maibuN

icebear said:


> Apparently the HD800 is the most reliable of any TOTL headphones with the highest production number (*serial # about 33k now?*).
> I have not seen any reports of driver failures, channel imbalance or broken hinges for that matter. I have mine for  a little over a year and no issues


 
  
 35k


----------



## knowhatimean

How rough or careless are you going to be w/ a $1500 TOTL headphone ?
  
 You can always save $300 & get those headphones that want to "really" squezze  your head & "they may appear sturdy" but your neck may not appear to feel sturdy after a while ? R&D for this company are probably 2 guys named Rob & Dave that pack the HPs in boxes


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks.
 I read  a post over at the Abyss thread that says they are better than some 70,000$ speakers he heard.
 Are the HD800 also comparable to 50,000$ +- speakers? or even 10,000$
 They would have crazy value  it that's the case


----------



## Justin_Time

pearljam50000 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> 
> I read  a post over at the Abyss thread that says they are better than some 70,000$ speakers he heard.
> ...



 


Listening to IEM/headphones is a different experience from listening to stero speakers in a room and different from listening to live, un-amplified music in a concert hall.

One is not necessarily better than the other, just different. But even so, if forced to compare, I do not have to go very far. I enjoy my Magnapan 3.7 at a mere cost of $5,500 new far more than I enjoy the Abyss. Of course associated components make the Magnapan system more expensive than the Abyss system but the whole thing would come well under $70,000! 

There is a small kernel of truth in the over statement above: home stereo systems are more expensive than personal IEM/headphone systems. I would leave it at that.


----------



## kapanak

> Originally Posted by *pearljam50000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Humm the earcup hinge looks fragile.
> Has anyone had any problem with it?


 
  


> Originally Posted by *icebear* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Apparently the HD800 is the most reliable of any TOTL headphones with the highest production number (*serial # about 33k now*?).
> I have not seen any reports of driver failures, channel imbalance or broken hinges for that matter. I have mine for  a little over a year and no issues


 
   


> Originally Posted by *maibuN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> *35k *


 
  
 My nearest headphones dealer just told me his shipment of three HD800 on Friday were all in the serial # 36020's range. So *serial # 36K* now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 No other $1000+ headphones has sold this many units, not even close.
  
 And in terms of quality control, I can't think of any other headphones, except for perhaps the TOTL STAX that has the same rigorous testing as the HD800.
  
 There are quite a few factory tour videos of the Germany plant where the HD800 is made, the latest one by LinusTechTips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5es8zggYM7A
  
 First half of the video is purely HD800


----------



## V-DiV

Today it was back to the office rig.  But yesterday I got to spend time with my HD800s yesterday wandering through my music from Brahms & Dvorak to Diana Krall and Nora Jones to Gary Burton and Dominick Farinacci, to Doobie Brothers and Led Zeppelin.  Happy!   Getting more amped to plunk down some money on a DAC.  What will make me and my HD800 happier: a new Metrum Octave, NAD M51 (used?), PWD II (definitely used), or even the W4S Dac 1 Limited Ed (happy credit card)?  As I was shutting down to go watch some old guys Get the Led Out on TV with the wife, something caught my eye on my desk (pic below).  Was it a sign???


----------



## bearFNF

On the TOTL Stax there have been numerous issues of headbands breaking, I have seen three personally on the 009 that were broken (plastic clip for the adjustment mechanism). Then there is the whole imbalance issue that has been reported and argued about...


----------



## kapanak

bearfnf said:


> On the TOTL Stax there have been numerous issues of headbands breaking, I have seen three personally on the 009 that were broken (plastic clip for the adjustment mechanism). Then there is the whole imbalance issue that has been reported and argued about...


 

 That just shows my ignorance for electrostats I suppose. I was not aware of such issues. All I had ever seen were assembly and disassembly of the 009 that showed such beautiful worksmanship and industrial design. Thus, I stand corrected. HD800 is the only TOTL without issues


----------



## Zoom25

Beyer T1?


----------



## johnjen

pearljam50000 said:


> Thanks.
> I read  a post over at the Abyss thread that says they are better than some 70,000$ speakers he heard.
> Are the HD800 also comparable to 50,000$ +- speakers? or even 10,000$
> They would have crazy value  it that's the case


 
 As a general rule a HP system will be much less expensive than 'comperable' SQ in a speaker system, for a whole bunch of reasons.
 And it would seem that as you delve deeper into TOTL systems this $$ difference tends to get larger.
  
 Of course there will be exceptions, but depending upon what attributes are important for choosing the components for systems such as these, will also significantly influence the net $$ results.  
  
 Still, if 800's are the HP of choice and are fed 'properly', the multiplier factor can be 10x as much (or more) for a speaker system of comperable SQ.
  
 YMMV
  
 JJ


----------



## bearFNF

kapanak said:


> That just shows my ignorance for electrostats I suppose. I was not aware of such issues. All I had ever seen were assembly and disassembly of the 009 that showed such beautiful worksmanship and industrial design. Thus, I stand corrected. HD800 is the only TOTL without issues


 

 Well actually the HD800 has been reported to have paint issues, that is some think it scratches easily, Mine have some minor scratches, but then I don't treat them with white glove type of handling...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I guess the bottom line is there really are no "perfect" headphones...
  
 Oh yeah, there was also the report of an HD800 on here somewhere that had a very loose headband.  Mine is somewhat loose, to the point where I had to mark the headband position for easier re-adjustment as it would slide out of position too easily.  There was even a guide made on how to disassemble and reassemble it after "tweaking" some parts to make it tighter.  I never did take mine apart, though.


----------



## nw130d

+1
 Not trying to be a party pooper but my HD800 new, were questionable build quality.


----------



## rage3324

Why do some people state (not in this thread) the WA7 and HD800 are not a good match?


----------



## kapanak

rage3324 said:


> Why do some people state (not in this thread) the WA7 and HD800 are not a good match?




People in this thread have stated such things too. The WA7, first of all, has a subpar DAC built-in. Secondly, by the time you upgrade it with the upgrade tubes and get the tube power supply, you're hitting $1500 easily. At that price point, many better amps can be found for the HD800. Heck, Schiit Ragnarok is right there in that price range. Thirdly, the WA7 doesn't let HD800 show it's best quantities, especially micro detail. It makes the sound warm and syrupy. Some people like that. Some don't.

As a amp only, and a starting option, it's a good amp. I'd take a Valhalla 2 at 1/3 the cost for better SQ and value though.


----------



## koiloco

kapanak said:


> People in this thread have stated such things too. The WA7, first of all, has a subpar DAC built-in. Secondly, by the time you upgrade it with the upgrade tubes and get the tube power supply, you're hitting $1500 easily. At that price point, many better amps can be found for the HD800. Heck, Schiit Ragnarok is right there in that price range. Thirdly, the WA7 doesn't let HD800 show it's best quantities, especially micro detail. It makes the sound warm and syrupy. Some people like that. Some don't.
> 
> *As a amp only, and a starting option, it's a good amp. I'd take a Valhalla 2 at 1/3 the cost for better SQ and value though.*


 
 +1.  WA7 is a nice looking amp and offers decent performance for HD800 but personally, I wouldn't go with it either.  Don't get me wrong!  I am a Woo fan but that's just reality.


----------



## rage3324

I suppose I bought the WA7 partly on looks and not knowing I would have interest in the HD800. Somewhat foolish, but I do not regret it. Should I be considering the T1 or PS1000 instead for better performance with the WA7 or will the HD800 still show enough performance from the WA7 to outshine those? I am not looking for the holy grail setup here.


----------



## kapanak

rage3324 said:


> I suppose I bought the WA7 partly on looks and not knowing I would have interest in the HD800. Somewhat foolish, but I do not regret it. Should I be considering the T1 or PS1000 instead for better performance with the WA7 or will the HD800 still show enough performance from the WA7 to outshine those? I am not looking for the holy grail setup here.




HD800 with WA7 or any of your other gear will sounds quite a bit better than PS1000 and T1 for sure. It'll shock you :3


----------



## koiloco

rage3324 said:


> I suppose I bought the WA7 partly on looks and not knowing I would have interest in the HD800. Somewhat foolish, but I do not regret it. Should I be considering the T1 or PS1000 instead for better performance with the WA7 or will the HD800 still show enough performance from the WA7 to outshine those? I am not looking for the holy grail setup here.


 
 I was in your shoes not long ago, eyeing the WA7.  I love its look and design.  I was lucky enough to listen to all Woo amps and compared.  Then I decided to save couple more months and ended up with WA22.  As for your question, I would still keep HD800/WA7 combo.  I have never been impressed with T1 and PS1000 driven by any amps.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Also, if you plan to have other HPs down the road, WA7 is quite versatile at driving different HPs decently, including IEMs.
  
 Also, make sure you have upgraded tubes in your WA7.  Quite a difference in SQ!


----------



## pearljam50000

Is anyone using the O2+ODAC as their exclusive HD800 setup? or do you people feel they are not good enough for the HD800?


----------



## TheDuke990

pearljam50000 said:


> Is anyone using the O2+ODAC as their exclusive HD800 setup? or do you people feel they are not good enough for the HD800?


 
  
 I used this combo for round about one year and missed nothing.
 But only for validation I have done a test between this combo and my NAD CD Player and Brston BHA-1 and I was not able to hear any difference.


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks.
 I currently have the Geek Out 720, is there any point in selling it and getting the O2+ODAC instead?
 I can't afford anything better than that because the HD800 is very expensive as it is


----------



## rawrster

I disagree with that. The HD800 was one of the few headphones I have owned where I was able to tell the difference easily within the same level. The other headphones are the SR007 and HE-6. Previously, at the same level of gear it was difficult without listening for it but the HD800 is resolving enough.
  
 While the O2/odac can sound good it will not be to the potential the HD800. Whether that is fine or not is up to you to decide.


----------



## kapanak

pearljam50000 said:


> Thanks.
> I currently have the Geek Out 720, is there any point in selling it and getting the O2+ODAC instead?
> I can't afford anything better than that because the HD800 is very expensive as it is


 

 the LH Labs Geek Out, any of the models 450 to 1000, with the latest firmware and driver update, will beat the O2+ODAC silly ... O2+ODAC is outdated design now, and it sounds meh and more meh with the HD800.


----------



## rage3324

koiloco said:


> I was in your shoes not long ago, eyeing the WA7.  I love its look and design.  I was lucky enough to listen to all Woo amps and compared.  Then I decided to save couple more months and ended up with WA22.  As for your question, I would still keep HD800/WA7 combo.  I have never been impressed with T1 and PS1000 driven by any amps.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That all makes sense. I was a little worried that the WA7 was not a good match for the HD800 at all based on some recent posts I had seen. But you guys have settled that. My concern is when I go to audition the the T1, HD800, and PS1K it will not be on a WA7 so the results might be very different for the HD800 at home. But that is always a risk..
  
 I just do not want to purchase the HD800 and then cripple them with the WA7. Putting sound tastes aside, does the WA7 power the HD800 well enough to put them on the same level as the PS1K and T1 (also powered by the WA7) in terms of potential?


----------



## kapanak

rage3324 said:


> That all makes sense. I was a little worried that the WA7 was not a good match for the HD800 at all based on some recent posts I had seen. But you guys have settled that. My concern is when I go to audition the the T1, HD800, and PS1K it will not be on a WA7 so the results might be very different for the HD800 at home. But that is always a risk..
> 
> I just do not want to purchase the HD800 and then cripple them with the WA7. Putting sound tastes aside, does the WA7 power the HD800 well enough to put them on the same level as the PS1K and T1 (also powered by the WA7) in terms of potential?


 

 Once again, the HD800 powered by a regular sound card output will put both PS1K and T1 to shame out of your WA7. The other two headphones are just not in the same league as the HD800 in terms of soundstage, sound quality, and details and accuracy, no matter how they are driven.
  
 WA7 and the HD800 are a good match, loved by many, so try it and let us know 
  
 Also, I'd seriously look into getting the upgrade tubes at some point in the future, and perhaps the tube power supply at some other further point in the future


----------



## rage3324

kapanak said:


> Once again, the HD800 powered by a regular sound card output will put both PS1K and T1 to shame out of your WA7. The other two headphones are just not in the same league as the HD800 in terms of soundstage, sound quality, and details and accuracy, no matter how they are driven.
> 
> WA7 and the HD800 are a good match, loved by many, so try it and let us know
> 
> Also, I'd seriously look into getting the upgrade tubes at some point in the future, and perhaps the tube power supply at some other further point in the future


 
 I have the tube power supply and will be purchasing the upgraded tubes in the future. I want to give the stock tubes a fair trial so I can truly appreciate the difference in sound of the upgraded tubes


----------



## kapanak

rage3324 said:


> I have the tube power supply and will be purchasing the upgraded tubes in the future. I want to give the stock tubes a fair trial so I can truly appreciate the difference in sound of the upgraded tubes


 

 See? This makes your situation different. If one already has the WA7 and the tube power supply, then buying the best headphones for it would indeed be the HD800. On the other hand, if one already has an HD800, the price of the WA7 full kit would be a little harder to justify.  Get the HD800 after an audition or three, and enjoy it


----------



## koiloco

rage3324 said:


> I have the tube power supply and will be purchasing the upgraded tubes in the future. I want to give the stock tubes a fair trial so I can truly appreciate the difference in sound of the upgraded tubes


 
 Just to be clear that the WA7 I listened to was the very first model.  There was no separate tube power supply at that point.  What I've gathered from different WA7 owners and reviews is that the dedicated power supply improves SQ noticeably.  If that is indeed the case, I would personally be happy with WA7/HD800 combo.  Regarding other 2 headphones you asked about, IMO,  T1 would come closer to HD800 in techicality but remember that musically, each TOTL HP has its special/unique appeal.  Not everyone enjoys the same sound signature and not everyone must have their music so accurate.
  
 "Be together: not the same"  - a recent cute quote from you know who.


----------



## rage3324

koiloco said:


> Just to be clear that the WA7 I listened to was the very first model.  There was no separate tube power supply at that point.  What I've gathered from different WA7 owners and reviews is that the dedicated power supply improves SQ noticeably.  If that is indeed the case, I would personally be happy with WA7/HD800 combo.  Regarding other 2 headphones you asked about, IMO,  T1 would come closer to HD800 in techicality but remember that musically, each TOTL HP has its special/unique appeal.  Not everyone enjoys the same sound signature and not everyone must have their music so accurate.
> 
> "Be together: not the same"  - a recent cute quote from you know who.


 
  
 Great point. It looks like I can audition the PS1000 and HD800 locally in the Chicago area. But I will not be able to audition the T1 which is about $300-$400 cheaper on the used market than both of those.


----------



## Acapella11

kapanak said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Dragonfly v1.2 for £130 should be outstanding and then there is the Schiit Modi 2 Uber for $149...


----------



## pearljam50000

The PS1000 is about 2500$ on Amazon.


rage3324 said:


> Great point. It looks like I can audition the PS1000 and HD800 locally in the Chicago area. But I will not be able to audition the T1 which is about $300-$400 cheaper on the used market than both of those.


----------



## rage3324

pearljam50000 said:


> The PS1000 is about 2500$ on Amazon.


 
 Not sure why it is that high on Amazon, but other dealers have it for the MSRP ($1695). The used market is $1000-$1200 for the PS1000 and bout $900-$1100 for the HD800 and $600-$750 for the T1.


----------



## bfreedma

pearljam50000 said:


> The PS1000 is about 2500$ on Amazon.


 
  
 Those aren't from authorized dealers.  Still $1695 at legitimate sites like wooaudio.


----------



## skeptic

kapanak said:


> ... O2+ODAC is outdated design now, and it sounds meh and more meh with the HD800.


 
  
 Don't know about outdated exactly (as to the amp), but totally agree that it is a poor match with hd800's.  O2 was/is a cool project in the sense that the designer was able to build a hp amp that will capably drive most phones, for about $30 in parts (excluding the case), while hitting impressive specs.  Frankly, I think every head-fi enthusiast should _build_ one because it is so inexpensive, easy to do and always nice to have a decent transportable amp on hand when you go on vacation.  Throw in agdr's booster board and a dual lme49990, for kicks, and it further improves (less offset, 2x current for transients, and 10x the slew rate for less TIM), and is quite enjoyable (to my ears) with fostex planar variants and certain other low impedance phones.  I _really_ dislike the O2 with hd800's and hd650's though and can't wrap my head around how/why anyone recommends it as a good match for the latter.  By contrast, I find it to be a reasonably good solid state option for dt880's (250 ohm).
  
 As to the Odac, outdated is probably accurate, even among pint sized usb dacs.  A Pupdac, for example, measures better and doesn't have the sonic downsides of cheap sabre implementations.  (See: http://www.head-fi.org/t/636683/pupdac-step-by-step-build-thread/255#post_10536044 )  Tomb, who runs Beezar, is also a really gracious guy and sometimes sells them prebuilt for those who don't want to DIY.  For that matter, I also think my picodac sounds better than my odac in most setups.  YMMV and all that, but I totally echo kapanak's advice against pairing your hd800's with an o2/odac combo.  I suspect the headphone out on many a HTR receiver would actually be more enjoyable for the average listener.


----------



## knowhatimean

I'm going to "Hi-Jack" the "Will this "     "  work with the HD800" talk for a second !
  
 The truth is just about anything I've seen mentioned won't create any compatibility issues ! Whether or not these matches will
 be successful for the sound qualities you're looking for is another thing all together
  
 I think the best way to approach what you want to "surround" what to use with the headphones is to listen to them with whatever
 you are currently using & figure out what it is that you like or don't like about how they sound.
  
 One of most often repeated comments I've seen is. "You 'need' tubes with these headphones to tame the treble" Tubes will tame
 the treble, but you're also taming a bit of that capability (that you paid $$ for) to reproduce micro detail. The glare or added edgeness
 that bothers you is physically coming from the headphones themselves. If you don't listen to an abundance of music that has a great
 deal of "natural" ambient spatial cues information (or this just doesn't matter too much to you); You can use tubes to your hearts content. Obviously, you don't want to go near tubes if you plan to use them "strictly" for taming purposes,if you want to hear these
 cues that may finally validate "These are one of the best headphones for "so & so" music" A little work on your part is necessary on your side though
  
 Ok, I'll return the discussion back to its former mode (I think you were discussing the Woo WA7 ? He,he,he... just be aware of
 the reasons why people may have preferences for certain equipment)


----------



## Solarium

Has anyone had any experience running the HD800 via the Asus Essence STX or STX II sound cards directly via its headphone amp jack?


----------



## MickeyVee

Wow!  Personally, I've found the HD800 the best all around headphone that I've heard. I listen to everything from Deadmou5, Lindsey Stirling to a lot of 70s/80s/90s music to Patricia Barber and Frank Sinatra.  But, and that's a big BUT, I've managed to find  a DAC/AMP combo that totally does it for me. (and I've tried a few to get here)
  
 Once you've found the right source/DAC/amplifier to suit YOUR tastes, you'll be in heaven with the HD800. (and I don't think you have to spend a fortune).  Good Hunting and Good Listening!
  
 Quote:


knowhatimean said:


>


----------



## Behemoth27

I just wanted to chime in and say that I absolutely love my woo wa2 with the hd800s. The stock tubes aren't great, but will get you by for awhile. And the wa2 is also a preamp, so you can build up a speaker system around it if you'd like.


----------



## knowhatimean

mickeyvee said:


> Wow!  Personally, I've found the HD800 the best all around headphone that I've heard. I listen to everything from Deadmou5, Lindsey Stirling to a lot of 70s/80s/90s music to Patricia Barber and Frank Sinatra.  But, and that's a big BUT, I've managed to find  a DAC/AMP combo that totally does it for me. (and I've tried a few to get here)
> 
> Once you've found the right source/DAC/amplifier to suit YOUR tastes, you'll be in heaven with the HD800. (and I don't think you have to spend a fortune).  Good Hunting and Good Listening!
> 
> ...


 
 Well, I hope that it is obvious that I also feel that "my" HD800 are "now" the best headphone that I've heard for having the ability
 to let me hear a much,much greater amount of the type of low level information that is available in the music that I listen to !
 (He,he.he.... I'm not quite as "Democratic" in my musical tastes, but I do like Barber & "Frank"). If you don't already have the Mobile Fidelity "Only the Lonely" release. Go out & get it (I could be wrong but these sound more like "Nelson Riddle arrangements" to me)
  
 One of the best comments I've heard about these "cans" is something that Tyll H. said about taking "Ownership" of these headphones. In other words do "whatever" you have to do make them sound the way they work best for "you"! That includes any system equipment choices & beyond (& this made the most difference to me) The HD800 are only a window that will let you see everything you've placed in front of it, but sometimes that window has a tinted glass that colors all the great things you can see through it. If you simply change the glass that window is now something that allows you greater clarity.
  
 Wow, that was a bit deep (& "tinted" I suppose)... Well, making some changes to the HD800s may not be as difficult as changing
 glass & the added clarity may be even more impressive !
  
 (& all this due to the fact I don't really know which of my "ramblings" you chose to quote; & some early morning indigestion woke
 me up ! You had to read this because I ran out of Pepto-Bismol) (Sorry) (I just realized that the tiny arrow next to username shows me
 the quote; I'm not that swift with cell phones either !)


----------



## Sorrodje

One thing I appreciate a lot with the HD800 is indeed this ability to sound really differently according to the recording primarily but according to associated gear too. I can't think to any other headphone I heard that made me this impression and I think its the main reason why I'm still here in this thread.
  
 and this headphone sucks me in the music I love to listen to . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Mine is at Colorware right now.. I can't believe how much I miss it despite the fact I've the Koss and the Stax .


----------



## knowhatimean

sorrodje said:


> One thing I appreciate a lot with the HD800 is indeed this ability to sound really differently according to the recording primarily but according to associated gear too. I can't think to any other headphone I heard that made me this impression and I think its the main reason why I'm still here in this thread.
> 
> and this headphone sucks me in the music I love to listen to .
> 
> ...


 
 Make sure that they put a double opaque, triple tempered coating !!! Hmm... once you get your "babies" back you can think
 about how to "clean" the Koss & Stax  (as Tyll says "take Ownership, dude!) (Tyll looks like he would say "dude", so I embellished)


----------



## pearljam50000

Is there any other headphones that "disappears" like the HD800?


----------



## punit

pearljam50000 said:


> Is there any other headphones that "disappears" like the HD800?


 

 If by "disappears" you mean comfortable, then TH 900 IMO.


----------



## pearljam50000

What I meant is, are there any other headphones that are as transparent sounding , that you feel you are listening to the sound itself and not sound that comes from headphones/speakers.
^_^
Sorry for my bad English.


punit said:


> If by "disappears" you mean comfortable, then TH 900 IMO.


----------



## knowhatimean

pearljam50000 said:


> What I meant is, are there any other headphones that are as transparent sounding , that you feel you are listening to the sound itself and not sound that comes from headphones/speakers.
> ^_^
> Sorry for my bad English.
> 
> ...


 
 Your English is just fine. I keep forgetting how hard this concept is to explain to countless numbers of people may have never
 heard the difference between just hearing the information that is coming from a musical recording & not hearing the additional
 sound that is not even on the recording but coming from some resonance or vibration from the actual headphone .
  
 The reason is pretty simple, many type of recordings don't have a lot of low level sound that indicates were the musician were sitting, or standing, or if the music was recorded in a huge space, or it was a studio recording where they've done all they can to eliminate any clue if they making the recording inside a telephone booth or a Circus tent. For the most part it's not that important how transparent sounding any equipment is unless the music being listened to was recorded so you can hear these things.
  
 When you listen to music that was recorded so you can hear these details, they will be extremely hard to hear this low level information if what you are listen through is generating its own low level noise that you're hearing at the same time as the music.
 Just because you may not be able to detect the difference between  what is actually part of the music & "sound" that is not
 does not mean they are 1& the same.
  
 Transparent is really only an individual measurement that we apply to how we think something is. Its about as defineable as the
 "Truth" is (In other words its open to as far as your interpretation of it goes).


----------



## pearljam50000

Excellent post


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I finally received my Sennheiser HD 800 Certificate with Individual Diffuse-Field Frequency Response!  This is from the headphone I bought last July.
  
 Wasn't a big deal, so  I didn't pursue it vigorously, but apparently I confused things by requesting it once with the date I received the HD 800, and another time with the date I purchased the HD 800, 3 weeks earlier.  I had gotten my HD 800 not from Sennheiser directly, but from Colorware, an authorized distributor, so that I could have it (and the amp I bought at the same time) custom colored in tasteful racing red and glossy black!
  

  
 I continue to be delighted in this combination after nine months, and indeed I have moved it from my PC "listen while you work" station to my easy-chair family-room "listen and nothing else" station, where it now sits with my Grado PS1000 and Grado HPA-1 amp.
  
 I've never found a weakness in the bass or a brightness in the treble as some have, and a look at my frequency response curve shows me that the curve is at its highest at the lowest frequency!  Its slope even suggests it is strong at lower frequencies than the 100 Hz that the plot ends with.
  

  
 It will be most interesting over the long term, with the Sennheiser top-of-line with matched amp alongside the Grado top-of-line with its matched amp, how I compare the two.  The main reason that I moved the Sennheiser is that I so thoroughly enjoy the PS1000 and listen to it so much more than the Sennheiser that I think it had more to do with the setting than sonic differences (I spend more time in the easy chair listening situation than listening while doing PC things).


----------



## maibuN

The "lowest frequency" where the bass rolls of is not on the chart as is only goes until 100 Hz or maybe 80 Hz. The HD800 is a good headphone however is is indeed bright and (very) bass light. But I think that has nothing to do with de frequency chart alone because it doesn't react to eq. Even with some bass eq the bass still has no "body". Does somebody have an explanation for that? Perhaps the bad square wave response or the extremely open design?


----------



## knowhatimean

Seeing how this is an "Impressions" thread I think I'll leave some as to how what I'm listening to at this moment !
  
 I'm listening to a recording that I had gotten a long time as a London "Blue Back" FFSS LP that was included as 1 of the CD included in the "Decca Sound" CD Box Set
 that I'd ripped (like most of my library) to a portable HD using dBPoweramp to rip it , then imported the rip into JRiver Media Center 19 to change the bit rate to 24bit / 176.4 khz & add crossfeed to the files
  
 (I've had 1 of the people who'd written the upsampling algoriths that JRMC uses try to debate the purpose of my doing this processing as not being sucessful at giving me a better recording
 than what I started with; I think he misunderstood what I was after was only to take away the popular music remastering filtering done on Orchestral mastertapes that had no shortage of resolution on them other than the fact they were "dumbed down" to fit the Redbook standard of 16bit/44.1khz; After successfully processing a few hundred rips with this extra work, I gave up worrying about
 whether or not I was creating "empty bits"(You're going to love this) My Metrum Hex NOS DAC loves these files. Upsampling does appear to work as a pre-DAC process with the Hex it just processes these files as being whatever the computer says the files now are. (I don't believe everything people tell me about Computer Audio, unless I just misinterpret what I hear)
  
 I haven't said squat about how much depth & inner detail (along with the width which is the given that everyone hears no matter what they listen to)i'm hearing. It is the ability to hear the depth though that"Humanizes" the sound of the HD800s though. I'm listening to, I believe, the Tchaikovsky Violin Cto, & without the ability to hear the cross dialogue of the Violinist & various individual instruments & instrument choirs within the Orchestra you can't really appreciate this instrumental writing  along with the complementary or contrapunctal(sp) melodies that are going on along with the main themes as greatly if the timing of the start & decay of the individual notes aren't somewhat distinct. That is a helluva a lot going on & I'm able to hear a very considerable amount of this
 musical experience through the HD800s. Yeah, I think I may have to buy some more music this weekend !
  
 Enjoy
 -steve


----------



## lovethatsound

maibun said:


> The "lowest frequency" where the bass rolls of is not on the chart as is only goes until 100 Hz or maybe 80 Hz. The HD800 is a good headphone however is is indeed bright and (very) bass light. But I think that has nothing to do with de frequency chart alone because it doesn't react to eq. Even with some bass eq the bass still has no "body". Does somebody have an explanation for that? Perhaps the bad square wave response or the extremely open design?


There's nothing wrong with the hd800 bass.l use the hd800 with the hdvd800 amp and senn balance cable and the Chord Hugo as the Dac and no matter what sort of music i throw at it,it all sounds fantastic, if theirs bass in the recording you'll hear it.maybe it's you're dac or amp that's bass light. The hd800s are 1 of the best headphones ive ever heard.


----------



## maibuN

I tried the hd800 with different amps: matrix m stage, ifi idsd micro, meier audio corda symphony, bryston bha-1, violectric v200, bmc puredac, hdvd800, to be honest it always sounds like an hd800. I don't understand that "black magic" of amps making the hd800 so much better. I think it is a matter of fact that hd800 is bright and bass light, this is not necessarily bad as I like it anyhow.


----------



## skeptic

maibun said:


> The "lowest frequency" where the bass rolls of is not on the chart as is only goes until 100 Hz or maybe 80 Hz. The HD800 is a good headphone however is is indeed bright and (very) bass light. But I think that has nothing to do with de frequency chart alone because it doesn't react to eq. Even with some bass eq the bass still has no "body". Does somebody have an explanation for that? Perhaps the bad square wave response or the extremely open design?


 
  
 What dac and amp are you running?  This has not been my experience with hd800's at all, except maybe for the handful of occasions I tried to run them out of my o2.  With my main rig, deep bass hits hard, full and fast, when called for, whether listening to acoustic string bass, pipe organ, or (for youthful nostalgia) 2pac's All Eyez on Me.  As I hear them, hd800's have more deep bass, but less mid-bass hump, than my hd650's and substantially more deep bass than my former AD's.  If you want a premium can with more deep bass, you probably need to look to Audeze's, but I'd experiment with alternate amps before you go that route and abandon the fantastic sound stage, comfort and detail that hd800's offer.


----------



## maibuN

See my post above.
  
 Regarding the bass audeze headphones are way better than hd800 but they are very uncomfortable with rather small and congested soundstage.


----------



## knowhatimean

maibun said:


> The "lowest frequency" where the bass rolls of is not on the chart as is only goes until 100 Hz or maybe 80 Hz. The HD800 is a good headphone however is is indeed bright and (very) bass light. But I think that has nothing to do with de frequency chart alone because it doesn't react to eq. Even with some bass eq the bass still has no "body". Does somebody have an explanation for that? Perhaps the bad square wave response or the extremely open design?


 
 Yes, I think what ever amp you're using isn't up to the task of driving these 300ohm headphones !
  
 I'm not running a balance amp but my Burson Soloist is somewhat of a voltage beast ! The brightness factor will change
 some also once you fix the amp problem (I was a bit surprised that you haven't seen some treble improvement yet, but I guess
 some brightness can be associated to whether the 800s are being driven well enough also )


----------



## pearljam50000

At what frequency does the HD800's bass start to roll off?
 Quote:


maibun said:


> The "lowest frequency" where the bass rolls of is not on the chart as is only goes until 100 Hz or maybe 80 Hz. The HD800 is a good headphone however is is indeed bright and (very) bass light. But I think that has nothing to do with de frequency chart alone because it doesn't react to eq. Even with some bass eq the bass still has no "body". Does somebody have an explanation for that? Perhaps the bad square wave response or the extremely open design?


----------



## ubs28

maibun said:


> I tried the hd800 with different amps: matrix m stage, ifi idsd micro, meier audio corda symphony, bryston bha-1, violectric v200, bmc puredac, hdvd800, to be honest it always sounds like an hd800. I don't understand that "black magic" of amps making the hd800 so much better.* I think it is a matter of fact that hd800 is bright and bass light, this is not necessarily bad as I like it anyhow.*


 
 It's not a matter of fact, it's your opinion. The HD800 has got excellent bass and treble extension, you won't find many headphones that has the bass, mids and treble extension in such a linear fashion.


----------



## maibuN

pearljam50000 said:


>


 

 Roll-off begins where the sennheiser curve ends -> 80-100 Hz. Measurements that can be found anywhere prove that. The sqaure wave resonse at 30 Hz also shows the problem in the bass department.
  
 I don't want to talk the hd800 down, I like this headphone. But it has it's weaknesses and is not the "holy grail of headphones". From my experience amps will not improve it by much.


----------



## pearljam50000

So ,is it possible to hear any sub bass with the HD800? can you hear anything @ 40hz for example?


----------



## ubs28

pearljam50000 said:


> So ,is it possible to hear any sub bass with the HD800? can you hear anything @ 40hz for example?


 
  
 Yes, but not like the Shure SE846 ofcourse.


----------



## skeptic

pearljam50000 said:


> At what frequency does the HD800's bass start to roll off?


 
  
 If you go with the Innerfidelity measurements, it gradually slopes down by around ~1 or 1.5db between 100hz and 50hz and by a total of about ~3db between 100hz and 20hz.  http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800B.pdf  
  
 For comparison purposes, some Audeze measurements actually show a similar ~1 or 1.5db drop between 100hz and ~50hz, but then it is pretty much flat from there to 10hz.  http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/spectacularly-yummy-audeze-lcd-2-and-lcd-3-measurements
  
 The lowest note on a string bass is supposed to be tuned to 41hz.


----------



## nigeljames

To say the HD800's have poor bass or are bright just means to me that they are not being driven correctly. That could mean poor ancillary components or poor synergy but the HD800's are capable of excellent bass, plenty of body and no brightness if driven properly.


----------



## maibuN

If flac files /24/96 files, macbook ssd with amarra symphony and amps like bryston bha-1, violectric v200, bmc puredac, hdvd800 don't drive the hd800 correctly than I don't know what else it needs do do so.
  
 Audeze seem to have a similar frequency response but the bass sounds completely different, has much more body and authority and overall it's not thin like hd800. That being said I am no audeze fanboy and tried audeze lcd 2/3/X vs hd800 many many times and choose hd800 every time, but if comfort wasn't in the equation I may have landed in the audeze camp . But I don't want to fool myself by saying hd800 is neutral because it is more on the bright/thin side of neutral and that's not for everyone.
  
  
  


pearljam50000 said:


> So ,is it possible to hear any sub bass with the HD800? can you hear anything @ 40hz for example?


 

 It's not that hd800 has no bass at all, of course you can hear things at 40 Hz. But if in the song there is much going on in the highs/upper mids it will be hard to focus on the bass because the sound will lean strongly towards the upper freq. range and overlay the bass-details.


----------



## johnjen

800's are capable of prodigous bass.
 When they smack that big 6' drum and the whole room resonantes, well the experience is delightful to say the least.
 And Sennheiser has the FR listed as 5Hz - 50KHz for the 800's
  
 I have never heard bass with this combination of detail, impact, and 'weight', even on speaker systems.
 True enough they can't deliver the punch in the chest like some speaker systems can but the amount of detail and resolution and extension is stellar.
  
 If your system isn't able to deliver this degree of bass then it’s the rest of your system and not the 800's.
  
 I had a new set of LCD-x's and my 800's both plugged into my system at the same time and while the X's had thump they lacked resoultion and detail that the 800's have.  But the 800's went deeper, with as much impact, and had the ability to hear the tonality of the musical note, which was missing on the X's.
 The X's tended to make any low bass sound the same, where the 800's delivered resolution, enough so that the specifc tone and its resonances are obvious, all the way down into the subsonic range.
  
 800's are very precise in delivering the signal fed them, if the bass is lacking, I'd start looking at other factors in your system 1st.
  
 JJ
  


maibun said:


> The "lowest frequency" where the bass rolls of is not on the chart as is only goes until 100 Hz or maybe 80 Hz. The HD800 is a good headphone however is is indeed bright and (very) bass light. But I think that has nothing to do with de frequency chart alone because it doesn't react to eq. Even with some bass eq the bass still has no "body". Does somebody have an explanation for that? Perhaps the bad square wave response or the extremely open design?


----------



## MickeyVee

Hear, Hear! Absolutely true. I've gone through a number of setups and when I hit the right one (for me), bass is slamming tight, detailed and the highs are extended, detailed an airy. 
 yes, the HD800 sounds like the HD800 no matter what but the better the synergy, the more you get.  These headphone do not like under-amping and thats not about watts, but about power, drive and control.
 Quote:


nigeljames said:


> To say the HD800's have poor bass or are bright just means to me that they are not being driven correctly. That could mean poor ancillary components or poor synergy but the HD800's are capable of excellent bass, plenty of body and no brightness if driven properly.


----------



## Priidik

maibun said:


> It's not that hd800 has no bass at all, of course you can hear things at 40 Hz. But if in the song there is much going on in the highs/upper mids it will be hard to focus on the bass because the sound will lean strongly towards the upper freq. range and overlay the bass-details.


 
 If BMC or HDVA didn't do it for you, then probably nothing does, really. 
 I know some of my music just sounds thin and body-less (some metal), it's more to do with the recording in my case. HD800 points at mistakes in mastering way better than other cans i have used. 
 If no dynamics are there to begin with, HD800 doesn't reinforce it. Some planars tend to make all bass sound strong and forceful, i'd say its a lot more like coloration. Even speakers (which i have heard) compress sounds more, in my experience.


----------



## knowhatimean

maibun said:


> pearljam50000 said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
 He,he,He, he,he.......etc. . Well they may not be the holy grail of headphones , but there are a lot of people who enjoy a pretty
 high level of performance from them ,regardless of what the measurements might say.
  
 I really won't say much more than I would refrain from making statements contrary to suggestions people have made based solely
 the argument "From my experience" as you off handedly dismissed their attempt to help solve some of the same issues they may have
  solved for themselves at some point !
  
 I would think that the collective experience of many should carry some value beyond "From my experience". There is always the
 possibility that what you think you know about something just doesn't apply to the situation !
  
 Your own experience really has no meaningful weight to anyone but yourself . Take a step back & think about why its not the
 best idea make "definitive statements" about things rather than leaving those statements unsaid.
  
 Opinions are normal, statements just become annoying unless you have well reasoned information to back up a particular statement,
 even then people discover things for themselves. You can point them but its up to them.


----------



## johnjen

knowhatimean said:


> snip
> Possible causes for LFF huh ? Let's try this
> 
> Our ear drums need a certain amount of milliseconds to process every sound that they hear . The closer together or the longer the
> ...


 
  
 Drilling down into LFF
  
 Hmmmm, let’s see…
  
 I stumbled upon LFF as I was tracking changes, over time, of the SQ of my system as it ‘aged’, while performing ‘experiments’.  I noticed that sometimes I could crank up the DRC way more than other times before a degree of listener discomfort kicked in.  So I started to track this ‘variability’ in my daily log.
 And what I started to notice were the patterns I mentioned in my previous LFF post.
 Namely as LFF was lowered, I could crank up the DRC more than when the LFF was ‘high’.
  
 IOW, right from the start as LFF got better the DRC could be increased as well, and vice versa.
  
 But what I came to realize was the reason the DRC went up is because the acoustic energy was more closely coupled/bound to it’s parent/‘source’, which is what happened as tweaks and such were made.  These changes, after ‘settling in’, resulted in lowering the LFF.
 This resulted in closer coupling of all the acoustic energy that an instrument makes such that it is more precisely timed and presented to my ears, and this results in the actual acoustic musical signal being more faithful to the original.  Not in terms of FR but rather in the dynamic energy of the instrument that is presented to me.
  
 An example.
 Stick your head near a piano or drum set or other percussive instrument while it is being ‘vigorously’ played.  What you will experience is the ‘power’ of the impacts, the percussive effects, the energy that is being created and ‘imparted’ into the acoustic environment.
 This creation and release of power, is based upon the excitation of ‘tuned’ resonant components that further create sub and supra harmonics which are all ‘created’ as a direct consequence of the initial energetic injection by the musician.  Namely when the stick hits the cymbal or drum, the hammer hits the string, etc.  This ‘starting point’ for that note and especially the subsequent harmonics that are created are what we use to identify not just what the instrument is but which note, how ‘loud’ it is, what the acoustic environment is, how near or far away in 3d space, etc.  
  
 We can identify these things because we have previous experience (we ‘learned’) what the acoustic ‘thumbprint’ for a particular instrument sounds like.  And as this acoustic signature is changed, by whatever means, there is a deviation from original acoustic power signature.
 IOW we can tell a tack piano from a grand, from a standup etc. and we can tell when it is close miked or from a greater distance away because the resultant sub and supra harmonics change accordingly.
  
 All of these subsequent harmonics are created and released into the acoustic environment in their proper time, because they are a function of the creation of that initial energetic impulse and are ‘time aligned’ to that source.
 IOW they are bound to it, because they are created by it.
 When these subtle time alignments are skewed or delayed or stretched out thru time, the original acoustic energy is now ‘smeared’ and no longer properly adds it’s acoustic energy to that of it’s parent. 
 IOW the acoustic energy we hear being presented to our ears is out of synch from it’s original creation.
 This ‘smearing’ or spreading out the acoustic energy tends to ‘fill in’ where there should be a lack of energy or where that energy simply didn’t originally exist in the dynamic creation of the original signal.
 This makes the original source sound out of focus, as in, the subtle cues and harmonics are ‘Fat’ or spread out.
  
 THIS is my vote for LFF
  
 Where the acoustic energy is not presented ‘properly’, either by omission or by being ‘out of synch’, because either it does not present the full and precise original energetic acoustic signature or more acoustic ‘artifacts’ have been added.  
 And these changes/additions can come from 2 basic ‘sources’.
 The first being the playback equipment adding ‘distortion’ of some sort, of which many are well known (IM, THD, FR etc.).
 The second being a specific subset of #1, that being, that the original acoustic energy is being presented (heard) out of synch from its original source.
  
 All due to changes to the re-created signal that are heard.  
 Even if the original recorded signal is distorted to begin with.
  
 Oh yes and let me be ‘clear’ here.  This isn’t just about digital music playback.  If LFF truly is all about the music being out of synch with itself, think about what happens when the diamond tip ‘reading’ the groove walls isn’t aligned ‘properly’?  
 The 2 channels of information become ‘time smeared’ if the VTA and azimuth aren’t adjusted ‘properly’.  
 Think screech and LFF gone berserk, especially on poorly recorded vinyl…
 And power amps (strictly an analog device) seem to have as much if not more of a role to play in contributing to LFF.
  
 And there appear to be 2 general sources of these contributions to LFF.
 The first source is during the re-creation of the analog signal, and the second is during the ‘delivery’ of this signal.
  
 All DAC’s use mathematics to re-create the original musical signal, likewise a diamond tip ‘reads’ the groove wall, or the tape head ‘reads’ the magnetic flux modulation, etc.  These re-creation methods and related devices are all performing a change of state from one medium to another (usually into an analog electrical signal).  And these energetic translations/changes of state from digital, or mechanical, or magnetic, to electrical along with their compliment, the electrical to acoustic energy translations, are always the most critical in terms of ‘getting it right’ (accuracy, precision, resolution, etc.).
 And since this initial change of state is the very basis for the signal to start with, if it isn’t ‘properly’ handled, no amount of corrective action will ever ‘fix’ the signal.  Well, other than substituting with ‘better’ devices and/or processes.
  
 Secondly, faithfully delivering that signal and then completing this energetic change of state into acoustic pressure contributes it’s own vareity of LFF components.  This secondary contributor to LFF is something we can actually deal with on a less than wholesale replacement of major components (amps, dacs, cartridge etc.) basis.
 Indeed this is where most of my tweaking’ has yielded the most bang for the buck.  And which also significantly affects new major components as we ‘upgrade’ our systems as well.
 And a large percentage of these improvements are gained from the amp and its ability to ‘properly’ couple with the driver.  
  
 And what I have come to know is that as we lessen these ‘errors’ while generating acoustic pressure, and/or allow more of the original signal to come thru, LFF is reduced and the SQ takes a mother may I step up as more and more of the available acoustic energy is aligned and then ‘properly’ presented/heard during playback.
  
 The list of influences or tweaks I’ve experimented with, that contribute to the improvement of LFF are, for some, hard to believe, or for others seem to be outright dubious.
  
 And to make things even more ‘complicated’ there does seem to be a threshold that needs to be crossed before these changes become evident.  
 IOW if the system is ‘clogged’ with ‘choke points’, unless you ameliorate a major clog there is a good chance you may not hear any change, mostly due to masking/smearing of acoustical energy where it doesn’t belong.  This is a common observation made by many who try only one ‘upgrade’ like a power cable or interconnect cable, and hear no differences.  Of course there is the distinct possibility that the attempted ‘upgrade’ simply wasn’t up to the task. (it wasn’t a sufficiently better cable etc.)
  
 But once this threshold is reached it can initiate a cascade effect where EVERYTHING starts to make a difference.  But even initially this can lead to much confusion and frustration once a change IS noticed, because now determining if it is really an improvement, or just a change, becomes the deciding factor instead of just IS there any change.
 Now a whole new set of evaluatory decisions must be brought into the picture and become familiarized and applied and refined.  
 It’s like a whole new ball game.
 And it can get complicated quite quickly as the degree of ‘the system getting out of its own way’ continues to improve which results in more and more transparency. 
 This is where EVERYTHING can start to loom large. And where identifying just which ‘choke point’ is being heard, becomes a matter of experience.
  
 This is precisely where the 800’s come into their own.
 They are such precise transducers that even with a ‘clogged’ system, ‘artifices’ are all to easily heard and then the job at hand is to ‘fix’ the problem(s).  And the more that any of the 800’s unwanted contributions are ameliorated, the more the rest of the system’s undesirable attributes come into focus.  Which are sometimes attributed to the 800’s themselves.  But there is usually a commensurate increase in the inner details and focus, as more and more of the system continues to ‘get out of its own way’.
 And since the 800’s have a degree of precision that is highly scaleable, which can help tame some of this complexity, they can help provide a ‘stable’ reference point with from which to ‘stand on’ and proceed onward from.
  
 And LFF has, at least for me, become a most useful tool in terms of determining if changes made are actually beneficial improvements or are just changes.  There are of course other tools that also can help and the combination of these tools allows me to more quickly determine what is a desirable change, and if an actual removal of ‘choke points’ occurred, which did lessen the LFF’s influence.
 Or not.
  
 Another way of perceiving this is to view it as an exploration into scaleability and how well the components scale upwards together.  I have come to understand that as the ‘choke points’ are ‘removed’ or diminished in severity, the task now becomes how to determine if the resultant changes really are ‘better’, or not.  And when there is an obvious improvement, as in ‘OH MY DOG’, or ‘I’m hearing my music as if it were the first time’ etc. this provides solid evidence, at least to me, of a marked improvement in the overall resolution and that the system has ‘gotten out of its own way’ all the more.
 IOW, scaleability just took a significant step up, and EVERYTHING sounds better.
  
 LFF, Intelligibility, HB&W, T3 (Head Bobbing & Weaving, Toe Tapping Time), among others, are all sure signs of improvements of scaleability.  
 And 800’s are hugely scaleable, and it appears more so than much of the gear available to us today.
  
 This is a decided double edged sword in that as the choke points and other system deviations are removed, the more those that remain seem to loom large(r), which can be quite frustrating.  
 On the other hand once a degree of resolution is reached and the SQ is refined ‘enough’, the SQ has stepped up and away from what we have experienced in the past, so now we are now exploring previously unexplored edges of the envelope.  
 Which means we are now navigating in somewhat unfamiliar acoustic territory.
  
 But it also means as fewer and fewer ‘choke points' remain, the overall SQ continues improve.
 As such we are discovering new/additional nuances and subtle details of the presentation of the music, as we continue to hear it all anew, as the veils and unwanted ‘artifacts’ are removed. 
  
 This of course could be the DIY’rs curse — forever removing artifacts…  
 Think Sisyphus  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 JJ


----------



## icebear

maibun said:


> The "lowest frequency" where the bass rolls of is not on the chart as is only goes until 100 Hz or maybe 80 Hz. The HD800 is a good headphone *however is is indeed bright and (very) bass light. But I think that has nothing to do with de frequency chart alone because it doesn't react to eq. Even with some bass eq the bass still has no "body".* Does somebody have an explanation for that? Perhaps the bad square wave response or the extremely open design?


 
  
  


maibun said:


> I tried the hd800 with different amps: matrix m stage, ifi idsd micro, meier audio corda symphony, bryston bha-1, violectric v200, bmc puredac, hdvd800, to be honest it always sounds like an hd800. I don't understand that "black magic" of amps making the hd800 so much better. *I think it is a matter of fact that hd800 is bright and bass light, this is not necessarily bad as I like it anyhow.*


 
  
  


maibun said:


> Roll-off begins where the sennheiser curve ends -> 80-100 Hz. Measurements that can be found anywhere prove that. *The sqaure wave resonse at 30 Hz also shows the problem in the bass department.*
> 
> I don't want to talk the hd800 down, I like this headphone. But it has it's weaknesses and is not the "holy grail of headphones". From my experience amps will not improve it by much.


 
  
  


maibun said:


> If flac files /24/96 files, macbook ssd with amarra symphony and amps like bryston bha-1, violectric v200, bmc puredac, hdvd800 don't drive the hd800 correctly than I don't know what else it needs do do so.
> 
> Audeze seem to have a similar frequency response but the bass sounds completely different, has much more body and authority and overall it's not thin like hd800. That being said I am no audeze fanboy and tried audeze lcd 2/3/X vs hd800 many many times and choose hd800 every time, but if comfort wasn't in the equation I may have landed in the audeze camp . *But I don't want to fool myself by saying hd800 is neutral because it is more on the bright/thin side of neutral and that's not for everyone.*
> 
> ...


 
  
 ??? How about making up your mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 ... you are constantly criticizing the lack bass and bad 30hz sine wave measurements and bass roll off and you talk yourself still into liking the HD800. Something does not really seem to make sense. If you are in the US get a shrink, in UK get a pint 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 You mentioned a lot of equipment but maybe I missed it but I do not see any music you mentioned with which you detected the bass issues of the HD800. Have you listened to some Jazz with acoustic double bass, plugged and bowed and does the HD800 convey the natural sound of the instrument correctly? Can you recognize the wooden body of the actual instrument correctly? What are you referring to as "bass body"? Some rich wobbly carpet for the rest of the music to float on?
  
 A 30hz sine wave is not music btw 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and I listen to music (acoustic mostly) and not test signals. So I don't care too much about test signals when the music sound right to me. With right I am talking about close to live reference points i.e. concerts of acoustic music.
 I'd say just get rid of the HD800 and be a happy camper 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## skeptic

pearljam50000 said:


> So ,is it possible to hear any sub bass with the HD800? can you hear anything @ 40hz for example?


 
  
 Just to be clear, per the measurements, unless you have a lemon, hd800's have plenty of sub bass (more than the majority of audiophile quality headphones).  In fact, if you look at the FR certificate thread, you can see that most user's FR graphs have nulls (dips) around ~4khz, which are much lower (softer) than the FR at say 40hz.  As a further example, consider the headroom graph below.  It depicts only a 2db roll off between 100hz and 30hz.  Many (possibly most?) people can't even reliably notice a 1db change in volume.  This is excellent, nearly linear deep bass, unless your benchmark is rolling around with 2 x 15" subs in your trunk that make your hair blow back.


----------



## maibuN

icebear said:


> ??? How about making up your mind
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I listen to nearly every genre.  But as you like acoustic/ jazz try O-Zone Percussion Group - Jazz Variants. The big drums sound a bit anemic on 800 and overall it's a bit bright/ unnatural.
  
 Why I don't get rid of the hd800? I didn't find a better (not only different) headphone yet. I don't like k812 and audeze is too heavy/ congested.
  
 Perhaps a shrink could help me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It seems not to be the right place here to criticize hd800 so I'm out before I get hurt ...


----------



## yzhengyu

maibun said:


> I listen to nearly every genre.  But as you like acoustic/ jazz try O-Zone Percussion Group - Jazz Variants. The big drums sound a bit anemic on 800 and overall it's a bit bright/ unnatural.
> 
> Why I don't get rid of the hd800? I didn't find a better (not only different) headphone yet. I don't like k812 and audeze is too heavy/ congested.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Have you auditioned the TH900? It might suit your tastes.


----------



## V-DiV

Nice essay johnjen.  I'm impressed with the need to evaluate all of the pieces in the chain from the files on disk to the HD800s as I try to upgrade my system from "decently good" to "really great."  And not just how good each part is, but how each works together, including some of the less obvious stuff like impedance matching from component to component and to the HD800s.


----------



## knowhatimean

johnjen said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > snip
> ...


 
 You didn't think I actually read the entirety of this massive amount of information that needs an equal amount of time for  me to digest
 I promise I will tackle this tomorrow !!!
  
 However looking at the length of this I was reminded of a( I can't remember exactly what it was) but the caption underneath it read
 "Sometimes I sits & thinks....sometimes I just sits !" I'm pretty certain that the second part of this may be a "Historic" occasion of noteability in terms of yourself.... but as always I applaud the sheer enthusiasm to be descriptive of matters that point us toward a direction we might not have considered.
  
 As your closing comment is staring me in the face concerning the DIY'rs curse I think that may depend on "which battles you chose to take on when you approached a certain project & whether or not there was going to be a certain point of improvement that was singular in the scope of what you were hoping to accomplish & not necessarily addressing other issues that aren't pertinent to accomplishing the goals you set....until another day. Oh, oh you were right !
  
 later
 ~steve


----------



## johnjen

Yeah sometimes I do let my missives get 'carried away', but there always seems like there is more to say…
  
 I figure it can be always digested at ones leisure.  :thumb
  
 Of course the 'standard' response is TL; DR…
  
 JJ


----------



## Priidik

skeptic said:


> Just to be clear, per the measurements, unless you have a lemon, hd800's have plenty of sub bass (more than the majority of audiophile quality headphones).


 


Spoiler: Fr content!



 In fact, if you look at the FR certificate thread, you can see that most user's FR graphs have nulls (dips) around ~4khz, which are much lower (softer) than the FR at say 40hz.  As a further example, consider the headroom graph below.  It depicts only a 2db roll off between 100hz and 30hz.  Many (possibly most?) people can't even reliably notice a 1db change in volume.  This is excellent, nearly linear deep bass, unless your benchmark is rolling around with 2 x 15" subs in your trunk that make your hair blow back.
  



 I don't think people are technically complaining about the bass roll-off.
 More like impact. 
 I might be wrong, but i think many like a bit of compression in the lows, it gives the impression of more impact. (like closed cans)
 From limited exposure to ortho-planars, i think their bass is more impactful, but ultimately compressed.
 Although nothing beats the physicality of 18'' paper woofer.


----------



## ubs28

Just use an EQ if you don't like the bass. The LCD-2 roll off frequencies above 1000 hz so the bass has more room to "breath".


----------



## Sorrodje

IMO the only weak point of the HD800 in the bass area is sub bass. Many headphones give more rumble . Even the K812 I've just finished to review


----------



## Blackmore

This is very personal and I am glad they dont have it as K812 does.
  
 THX
  
 Quote:


sorrodje said:


> IMO the only weak point of the HD800 in the bass area is sub bass. Many headphones give more rumble . Even the K812 I've just finished to review


----------



## Sorrodje

@Blackmore: don't get me wrong. My personal opinion is precisely that the k812 offers a bit more bass extension but the price is that overall k812's bass are a bit more boomy and more compressed too. IMO sennheiser have chosen to not sacrifice quality for more quantity while akg did the contrary.


----------



## 62ohm

sorrodje said:


> @Blackmore: don't get me wrong. My personal opinion is precisely that the k812 offers a bit more bass extension but the price is that overall k812's bass are a bit more boomy and more compressed too. IMO sennheiser have chosen to not sacrifice quality for more quantity while akg did the contrary.


 
  
 I also have both and I think what you're saying is spot-on.


----------



## Nothing Within

Hola everyone. I swung buy to see if anyone would think that getting the woo WA7 for the hd800 would be a good choice for a very long time and not need to upgrade. Im really struggling to find something for the hd800s that makes me feel like im done researching so darn much for a "perfect like" amp and dac combo for these phones.


----------



## PleasantSounds

nothing within said:


> Hola everyone. I swung buy to see if anyone would think that getting the woo WA7 for the hd800 would be a good choice for a very long time and not need to upgrade. Im really struggling to find something for the hd800s that makes me feel like im done researching so darn much for a "perfect like" amp and dac combo for these phones.


 
  
 WA7 is good, but not that good. It's quite neutral for a tube amp, very detailed and well extended - at least with the upgraded tubes and power supply. The sound is subtle and comes from a noise free background. What it lacks for me though is pure raw brutal slam. It just doesn't deliver in this department. 
  
 I have been using it with the HD800 for about a year, but if you disregard the honeymoon period, I have been most of that time on the outlook for something more satisfying, as it always had me wanting more and feeling there must be another level out there. And there is.
  
 I don't want to sway you to spend more, as that may be necessary to get to that level, but rather set your expectations right. With the WA7 you'd be getting a very capable and quite enjoyable amp that can handle most of dynamic and planar headphones, but if my experience is any indication, it won't deliver the end-game feeling.


----------



## Blackmore

Was not criticize your opinion, just confirming the fact. My K812 review can be found up here, where this been mentioned as well, and,  I always struggled with their overloaded midsection, probably of that midbass umph.
 THX
  
 Quote:


sorrodje said:


> @Blackmore: don't get me wrong. My personal opinion is precisely that the k812 offers a bit more bass extension but the price is that overall k812's bass are a bit more boomy and more compressed too. IMO sennheiser have chosen to not sacrifice quality for more quantity while akg did the contrary.


----------



## pearljam50000

I find it weird that you think that the HD800 are colored and not neutral.
But everyone hears differently


----------



## Makarov Andrei

pearljam50000 said:


> I find it weird that you think that the HD800 are colored and not neutral.
> But everyone hears differently


 
  HD 800 are not even headphones. If you want to get smooth uncolored sound you will have look to the side of the headphones used in the Studio during the mixing of the sound. But I don't think you liked this sound. It's a boring sound. this is not a Fi-Hi.


----------



## Zoom25

makarov andrei said:


> HD 800 are not even headphones. If you want to get smooth uncolored sound you will have look to the side of the headphones used in the Studio during the mixing of the sound. But I don't think you liked this sound. It's a boring sound. this is not a Fi-Hi.


 

 HD800 can easily be used for studio stuff. I have owned and worked with bunch of studio headphones (DT880, DT770, D2000, KRK KNS 8400, MDR-7506, MDR-V6, 7509HD, LCD-2, LCD-3). Among these, the HD800 are #1 in neutrality and when paired with true studio gear (not the typical hi-fi bs companies just throwing in claims for studio use), you'll be getting real close to high end studio monitors like ATC SCM series.
  
 On the other hand, these can also be used for hi-fi use because these respond so well to amping.


----------



## 62ohm

makarov andrei said:


> HD 800 are not even headphones. If you want to get smooth uncolored sound you will have look to the side of the headphones used in the Studio during the mixing of the sound. But I don't think you
> liked this sound. It's a boring sound. this is not a Fi-Hi.


 
  
  
 Sound Liaison, for one uses the HD800 as their mastering headphone http://www.soundliaison.com/


----------



## frankrondaniel

pleasantsounds said:


> WA7 is good, but not that good. It's quite neutral for a tube amp, very detailed and well extended - at least with the upgraded tubes and power supply. The sound is subtle and comes from a noise free background. What it lacks for me though is pure raw brutal slam. It just doesn't deliver in this department.
> 
> I have been using it with the HD800 for about a year, but if you disregard the honeymoon period, I have been most of that time on the outlook for something more satisfying, as it always had me wanting more and feeling there must be another level out there. And there is.
> 
> I don't want to sway you to spend more, as that may be necessary to get to that level, but rather set your expectations right. With the WA7 you'd be getting a very capable and quite enjoyable amp that can handle most of dynamic and planar headphones, but if my experience is any indication, it won't deliver the end-game feeling.


 
  
 I totally agree with your opinion here. I think you've accurately expressed my feelings about the WA7/HD800 pairing much better than I ever could. Just seems that the WA7 lacks a certain "weight" with the HD800's.  I'm certainly still on the lookout for a more satisfying amp for them.


----------



## erikfreedom

if you are on a budjet or simply want the best sound and the most compact size possible with the most power to drive the hd 800 I recommend the geek out 1000. that thing is out of this world with hd 800. at first I thought it was a gimmick, but this thing is flat out incredible. the dac section has better sound than my hegel hd 12. and the amp section has about 3 times the power of the hd12. with hd12 volume pot is between 65 to 75 for comfortable listening level with hd 800. with geek out 1000 volume pot is never over 50. mostly at 29-30. this thing is a beast. this thing sound almost as good as my hegel25 beta22 amp rig. if not better.  I am still in shock of the quality of this little device. it will be my main amp and dac for my hd 800 for a long time. I love that thing.


----------



## Sorrodje

It seems many listeners appreciate a lot this Geek Out 1000 . It's definitely something I would like to try   . Unfortunately, I have bad experience with the GO 450. Noisy with Iems and crappy volume settled to the max at each boot upset me.


----------



## knowhatimean

So today I decided to see if the method of setting the level of volume on my headphone amps volume attentuator would work as
 well using my HD800 as it has with the other hps I'd try this with. When you listen to a lot of dynamically intense music it can become
 a royal PITA jumping up & down making little adjustments while you're trying just relax & get into the "flow" of whatever you are listening to
  
 I discovered completely by chance that if I adjusted the volume of an oboe's solo part in Ravel's Bolero (RCA Living Stereo / Charles
 Munch / BSO) so that it sounds reasonably tonally correct (neither too low or too loud) (& this still amazes me) everything else that
 I may decide to listen to for the entirety of my listening session will sound like it is at (or very close) to the ideal volume where the
 music sounds "tonally" correct & this in turn keeps it sounding "dimensional"
  
 I can't imagine how many factors are involved to allow this even work, let alone work consistently. What I do know is that it has to be
 in individual instrument that you familiar with it tonal characteristics & the particular recording you use has to have a fairly high
 level of "realistic instrumental tone" integrity . The particular recording I chose to use is about 65yrs old
  
 One other thing that just occurred to me is the system you're using for your listening may have at a bit higher! then entry level for this
 to even work ! Even then it may just be I have a random set of circumstances in my setup that allows it to work ! (Or I may not
 be entirely human)


----------



## ubs28

makarov andrei said:


> HD 800 are not even headphones. If you want to get smooth uncolored sound you will have look to the side of the headphones used in the Studio during the mixing of the sound. But I don't think you liked this sound. It's a boring sound. this is not a Fi-Hi.


 
  
 There are studios and even grammy winning artists with the Sennheiser HD800 you know.


----------



## pearljam50000

So the can or can't the HD800 replace active studio monitors?


----------



## Moonhead

Well that depends on taste but My highend active speakers are just As Good but different and more warm.

I have listen to almost any studio monitor out there and HD800 supasses almost all of Them, IMO.

But if you Enter Stax 007 or 009 it Will not make sense gettin even the Best active speakers.

Easlily gets off topic, feel free to pm.


----------



## koiloco

pearljam50000 said:


> So the can or can't the HD800 replace active studio monitors?


 
 Nope, apples can't replace oranges even if they taste better.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 IMO, of course!


----------



## koiloco

moonhead said:


> Well that depends on taste but My highend active speakers are just As Good but different and more warm.
> 
> *I have listen to almost any studio monitor out there and HD800 supasses almost all of Them*, IMO.
> 
> ...


 
 While I partially agree, that's a mighty strong statement...
 Like you said, let's get back to topic.  We've been down this road quite a few times before.  Let's not do it again.


----------



## pearljam50000

lol ^_^
It's just I have a budget of 1500$ and cant decide if to get HD800 or active studio monitors, I'm looking for the highest SQ.


----------



## Makarov Andrei

ubs28
Everyone chooses the tool with which it can cope.) I would choose something from the DT150, DT250 or even better from AKG. Why do you hyped scene when mixing? If Studio headphones is a good sound, so the HiFI you will hear just a great sound. Such dependence for mixing


----------



## knowhatimean

pearljam50000 said:


> lol ^_^
> It's just I have a budget of 1500$ and cant decide if to get HD800 or active studio monitors, I'm looking for the highest SQ.


 
 Two things to consider 1) Everyone's opinion for which has the highest SQ is based on..what....on how it sounds to THEM !!! . All you can do is count up all the comments of those who are impressed & those who aren't. Look back to see who said the things that made you interested. Normally people who don't care for something have this idea they have give more information on why something is not
 that good (Is anyone asking them to prove this ? It's really ok to just pass on things). People who like thing normally just leave a comment or 2. If you still can't decide write down 5 yes & 5 no & mix them up in a hat & pick 1 out (if its no the answer you wanted to see ..keep picking until you do)
  
 2) Active Studio Monitors sound nothing like Headphones.......
  
 Hey it only money !! right ? (Ive just spent about 3hrs listening to the HD800s but I only care to listen to Acoustic / (mostly Orchestral
 music) & I think they're as good as anything I've  heard,but you will be listening to them)


----------



## bearFNF

To me speakers vs headphones also accomplish different things than just playing music.  Speakers fill the room and have no tether or something clamped to my head or stuck in my ears.  Headphones are for me alone and tie me to a location dictated by how long the tether is and how long I can stand having something clamped to my head or stuck in my ears.
 They each also present the music differently.
  
 In my case I have mostly opted for headphones because I can play them as loud as I want and not disturb the neighbors and I can tune out everything except the music.
 Basically, it comes down to what you want to get out of the experience and what your personal priorities and tastes are...good luck with _*your*_ decision.


----------



## MickeyVee

I had the original WA7 with upgraded tubes and sold it off pretty quickly.  Went to a Naim DAC V1 and a Woo WA6 (which I found better than the WA7) and finally landed on the McIntosh MHA100.  WOW!
 TBH, the only one that needs to be happy is you.  Through my journey, I've come to the conclusion that _If your setup works for you, then Enjoy and Happy Listening!_ It's all about the music.
 Quote:


nothing within said:


> Hola everyone. I swung buy to see if anyone would think that getting the woo WA7 for the hd800 would be a good choice for a very long time and not need to upgrade. Im really struggling to find something for the hd800s that makes me feel like im done researching so darn much for a "perfect like" amp and dac combo for these phones.


----------



## ubs28

pearljam50000 said:


> So the can or can't the HD800 replace active studio monitors?


 

 Best is to use both.


----------



## maibuN

pearljam50000 said:


> lol ^_^
> It's just I have a budget of 1500$ and cant decide if to get HD800 or active studio monitors, I'm looking for the highest SQ.


 

 I would get HD800 (or a similar headphone). 


bearfnf said:


> Headphones are for me alone and tie me to a location dictated by how long the tether is and how long I can stand having something clamped to my head or stuck in my ears.
> They each also present the music differently.


 
 The sweet spot of most speakers is really small. To get good sq you can't move very much either. With a 2-3m cable you are much more flexible than with speakers.
  
 In addition with speakers you have to take care of the room, many rooms just sound bad. It will not be done with 1,5k $ as room treatment will cost another 1,5k $. On the other hand if you buy HD800 you will need an amp/dac, or do you already have one? But that might be cheaper than treatment of the room as there are many good low budget amps imo.
  
 If you prefer speakers or headphones is just a matter of personal taste. Some of my friends "hate" listening with headphones and prefer speakers even if the sound quality is wore. Finally you won't get the sound quality of an HD800 (or similar hp) from speakers in the same price rage. HD800 will "beat" them hands down. You will get much more details and a cleaner sound. But what's the advantage of that if you just are a "speaker guy".


----------



## Moonhead

Agree with these ^ ^ you have to use a lot more on speakers 2500$ and up.

Pearljam

Thats and easy one get HD800 

Let's get back on HD800 route, Damn I regret letting them go!


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> lol ^_^
> It's just I have a budget of 1500$ and cant decide if to get HD800 or active studio monitors, I'm looking for the highest SQ.


 

 I thought you ended up getting the 8030s.


----------



## pearljam50000

I only auditioned them because I'm not sure if a 5 inch woofer can handle deep bass. But they do sound good.


zoom25 said:


> I thought you ended up getting the 8030s.


----------



## Moonhead

Genelec are overrated and not that many speakers can handle deep bass as well as HD800, IMO.


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> I only auditioned them because I'm not sure if a 5 inch woofer can handle deep bass. But they do sound good.


 

 Oh, okay. For me there are 3 setups that I have at the moment and finally don't have to worry about which one to fund first. I think you are probably trying to figure out something like this?:
  
 1) Headphone setup
 2) Big speakers for a large room and extended FR with a big feel
 3) Smaller speakers for desktop
  
 2-3 years back I would have funded the headphone setup first. Now, no way. Regardless of the sound, I just can't be attached to a limited space with something stuck on top of my sound. Speakers give me more freedom. Also, sound coming from the front is less fatiguing to me. That's why I got rid of the LCD-3's and funded a speakers rig first and then later came to HD800.
  
 If you know your priorities and preference, then the answer should be simple. If you don't know which to choose first, you have no choice but to dive in and learn it first hand. You might have to sell some stuff until you nail it, but it will be worth it in the long term. Also, look at LSR305 and 308. HD800 and 305's could be a good headphone-speaker pair without breaking the budget too much.


----------



## brokenthumb

zoom25 said:


> Oh, okay. For me there are 3 setups that I have at the moment and finally don't have to worry about which one to fund first. I think you are probably trying to figure out something like this?:
> 
> 1) Headphone setup
> 2) Big speakers for a large room and extended FR with a big feel
> ...


 
  
 Exactly what I have.  My HD800 and LSR308's came in just under $1500.  Grab a nice used pair of HD800s here on head-fi or Crutchfield has refurbs back in stock for $1100.


----------



## koiloco

moonhead said:


> *Genelec are overrated* and not that many speakers can handle deep bass as well as HD800, IMO.


 
 +1


----------



## rage3324

brokenthumb said:


> Exactly what I have.  My HD800 and LSR308's came in just under $1500.  Grab a nice used pair of HD800s here on head-fi or Crutchfield has refurbs back in stock for $1100.


 
  
 Thinking about crutchfield.. do you know if these have cosmetic issues potentially?


----------



## brokenthumb

rage3324 said:


> Thinking about crutchfield.. do you know if these have cosmetic issues potentially?


 
  
 My first pair of HD800 came from crutchfield and they had a couple of very small paint chips on the edge of one cup, otherwise the pads, box, cable, manuals all looked brand new.


----------



## rage3324

brokenthumb said:


> My first pair of HD800 came from crutchfield and they had a couple of very small paint chips on the edge of one cup, otherwise the pads, box, cable, manuals all looked brand new.


 
  
 Cool.. so nothing too terrible


----------



## soundeffect

zoom25 said:


> Oh, okay. For me there are 3 setups that I have at the moment and finally don't have to worry about which one to fund first. I think you are probably trying to figure out something like this?:
> 
> 1) Headphone setup
> 2) Big speakers for a large room and extended FR with a big feel
> ...



So does the 308 need an amp for computer use? If so any recommendation. That is in the budget side of things?


----------



## Zoom25

soundeffect said:


> So does the 308 need an amp for computer use? If so any recommendation. That is in the budget side of things?



Just need a pre-amp since it's active.


----------



## Moonhead

308 is an active speaker, so no Need for and AMP as is its all in one package 
As a bonus do they Sound much clearer than any passive speaker. 

Just Need a dac.

http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/recording-broadcast/3-series/lsr308#.VN5tkYbqHv5


----------



## Zoom25

Emotiva dc-1 is a beast for studio monitors. Excellent dac, analog pre- amp, crap load of inputs and outputs, remote control, balanced and single ended, display screen...less than $500.

I have no idea why this isn't the hottest selling dAC at its price.


----------



## Zoom25

moonhead said:


> 308 is an active speaker, so no Need for and AMP as is its all in one package
> As a bonus do they Sound much clearer than any passive speaker.
> 
> Just Need a dac.
> ...




Any passive...c'mon now.


----------



## Moonhead

I stand by that  do your homework!

Back on HD800


----------



## soundeffect

Sweet. Thanks, might be my next thing to get.


----------



## Zoom25

moonhead said:


> I stand by that  do your homework!
> 
> Back on HD800



Lol


----------



## knowhatimean

Wait a minute fellas !
  
 Who said you could have any money left in your bank accounts ? All you really need is several pair of underware , & remember
 things like furniture are only "money sucking non- audio equipment" hinderances !
  
 Don't let me see anymore talk about saving money for equipment if you're eating 3x a day !
  
 Your HD800s deserve better treatment than this (I'm taking names !) (after I've had my "Beef-a-Roni diner)


----------



## kapanak

I think some folks mistake active and powered speakers.


----------



## olor1n

I think some folks mistake the HD800 for an entry level headphone that can be plugged into any chain with impunity. If you're squeezing every penny just to fit the HD800 into your budget, be prepared to accept the possibility that you'll scratch your head at all the accolades. You don't need to spend megabucks to make the HD800 sing, but there are many here who have gone through many combinations of gear to get to that point. Some skip the hassle and aim for the very top, but it's likely both groups have invested just as heavily when it's all tallied up.
  
 More power to those who are deeply content with the HD800 from sound cards and other budget components. The HD800 epitomises Head-Fi, imo. It gives you a glimpse, a lure for your wallet and sanity. Unlike the usual Head-Fi hyperbole though, the payoff from the HD800 - when you get there - is real and immensely rewarding.
  
 edit: The HD800's bass is my favourite aspect of its signature. The extension and clarity, the way it occupies its own space - fading when its meant to and slamming hard when called for - is what gives it "body" imo. It is distinctly defined. People that rue the lack of body they perceive are likely describing a preference for emphasised low end, one that is overbearing and smears the overall presentation, less refined but perhaps more "fun" and "musical" to their ears. To each their own. I'll take the realism from the H800 every time.


----------



## pearljam50000

I plan to keep the Geek Out 720 and not upgrade (dont have $$$)
Yes it will not sound as good as with some mega $$$ desktop amps and DAC's you guys have, buti try to be happy with whatever i can afford.


----------



## Makarov Andrei

unfortunately HD800 require investments in the components of the musical system more than the real value of these headphones. You cannot buy a hd800 for 1500 $ and invest another 500 $. Will be **** sound. You'll have to sacrifice something, or your money, or have to part with the hd800. Congratulations! )))


----------



## olor1n

My intent isn't to discourage folks from the HD800, but if this is where you're starting out and you don't already own adequate components - be advised that the HD800 itself, is not the end game. It will just be the beginning.
  
 Garbage in, garbage out - as the old adage goes. This couldn't be more true of the HD800.


----------



## johnjen

In doing a bit of research on the whole JBL line, I find it 'interesting' that the specs for the power amps used in their powered monitors are quite scant in terms of details.
  
 And those 308's are using class D amps.
 I suspect that the vast majority of their sound is due to the source material fed them and not the speaker itself.
  
 I can relate to this because my near field speaker setup is a pair of Dayton B652 $40/pair speakers (slightly modded).
 And since I am feeding them with ≈ $4K worth of electronics they too sound wonderful.
  
 And no they don't come close to the SQ etc. of my 800's.
 Not even when I put myself in the sweet spot and close my eyes…
  
 JJ


----------



## johnjen

olor1n said:


> I think some folks mistake the HD800 for an entry level headphone that can be plugged into any chain with impunity. If you're squeezing every penny just to fit the HD800 into your budget, be prepared to accept the possibility that you'll scratch your head at all the accolades. You don't need to spend megabucks to make the HD800 sing, but there are many here who have gone through many combinations of gear to get to that point. Some skip the hassle and aim for the very top, but it's likely both groups have invested just as heavily when it's all tallied up.
> 
> More power to those who are deeply content with the HD800 from sound cards and other budget components. The HD800 epitomises Head-Fi, imo. It gives you a glimpse, a lure for your wallet and sanity. Unlike the usual Head-Fi hyperbole though, the payoff from the HD800 - when you get there - is real and immensely rewarding.
> 
> edit: The HD800's bass is my favourite aspect of its signature. The extension and clarity, the way it occupies its own space - fading when its meant to and slamming hard when called for - is what gives it "body" imo. It is distinctly defined. People that rue the lack of body they perceive are likely describing a preference for emphasised low end, one that is overbearing and smears the overall presentation, less refined but perhaps more "fun" and "musical" to their ears. To each their own. I'll take the realism from the H800 every time.


 
  
  


olor1n said:


> My intent isn't to discourage folks from the HD800, but if this is where you're starting out and you don't already own adequate components - be advised that the HD800 itself, is not the end game. It will just be the beginning.
> 
> Garbage in, garbage out - as the old adage goes. This couldn't be more true of the HD800.


 
 +1 x 10^10
  
 JJ


----------



## pearljam50000

Are you being cynical?


makarov andrei said:


> [COLOR=222222]unfortunately[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]HD800[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]require[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]investments[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]in the components[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]of the musical system[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]more[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]than[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]the real value of these[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]headphones.[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]You cannot buy a[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]hd800[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]for 1500[/COLOR] [COLOR=222222]$[/COLOR] [COLOR=222222]and invest[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]another 500[/COLOR] [COLOR=222222]$.[/COLOR] [COLOR=222222]Will be[/COLOR] [COLOR=222222]****[/COLOR] [COLOR=222222]sound.[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]You[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]'ll have[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]to sacrifice something,or your money, orhave to part with the[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]hd800[/COLOR][COLOR=222222].[/COLOR] [COLOR=222222]Congratulations! )))[/COLOR]


----------



## Zoom25

Got my new pair of HD800s today. It felt so weird with the clamp being feeling tight, pads were fresh, finally getting to use the stock cable - not that bad...it felt a bit bright at first. Now it's back to usual. This pair is 33,XXX. Can't tell difference from other pair.


----------



## Moonhead

Zoom

I Saw you had a Marantz Amp, are you using that for your HD800 ?


----------



## rage3324

Decided to join the club. Arrive Tuesday. Plan on purchasing the T1 or PS1000 as well and doing a head to head comparison


----------



## Zoom25

moonhead said:


> Zoom
> 
> I Saw you had a Marantz Amp, are you using that for your HD800 ?


 

 No, the PM6004 is now strictly for another very casual passive tower rig on the mainfloor. I used to drive the LCD-3s at one point from it's speaker taps, but been there done that. Not planning on doing anything like that again. HD800 are being driven out of Dangerous Source atm.
  
 EDIT: Hmmm, now that I think about it...I've never actually driven the HD800 out of the PM6004's headphone output or even Emotiva DC-1's headphone output. I should probably test it out.


----------



## lin0003

makarov andrei said:


> unfortunately HD800 require investments in the components of the musical system more than the real value of these headphones. You cannot buy a hd800 for 1500 $ and invest another 500 $. Will be **** sound. You'll have to sacrifice something, or your money, or have to part with the hd800. Congratulations! )))


 
 The HD800 with a $500 setup sounds just fine if you pick right. 
  
 Just that more expensive ones sound better.


----------



## koiloco

makarov andrei said:


> unfortunately HD800 require investments in the components of the musical system more than the real value of these headphones. You cannot buy a hd800 for 1500 $ and invest another 500 $. Will be **** sound. You'll have to sacrifice something, or your money, or have to part with the hd800. Congratulations! )))


 
 You seem to have some issues or lack of understanding/experience when it comes to current HP components available for HD800 at different price points.  Or even worse, you have something against HD800?  In any cases, I am fine with whatever problem you might have but please don't give out info and advises that IMO, you obviously have no freaking idea about.  
  
 Just my friendly 2c after a few of your posts in the last couple pages.  Please lay it off already.


----------



## koiloco

lin0003 said:


> The HD800 with a $500 setup sounds just fine if you pick right.
> 
> Just that more expensive ones sound better.


 
 +1.
  
 I might add that based on my personal experience, at least 85% fine.


----------



## TonyNewman

koiloco said:


> +1.
> 
> I might add that based on my personal experience, at least 85% fine.


 
  
 +2.
  
 Pairing an amp and DAC where both veer a little to the warm side of neutral is a good start. A dead neutral setup, or (horror!) a bright setup is going to be hard to love with the HD800, regardless of cost.
  
 In the right setup the HD800 sings wonderfully, and the lightweight gives a wonderful level of comfort.
  
 Nothing wrong with driving a HD800 from a $500 rig, but you won't be getting close to the full capability of what this headphone can offer. At that price point a HD600 or HD650 might be a better match. The HD600 / HD650 tend to get overlooked with all the love going on the TOTL big boys like the HD800 - these are very capable audiophile headphones and deserve some loving too


----------



## Blackmore

Maybe its just me, but I havent see anything about this mentioned up here
  
*Sennheiser celebrates its anniversary: 70 years of innovation*
  
http://en-de.sennheiser.com/the-pursuit-of-perfect-sound


----------



## Moonhead

Zoom

Let me know if you decide to try your Marantz and how it turns out. 

I'm considering getting a Yamaha receiver for HD800, they are not that expensive and plenty power or volts.


----------



## Moonhead

Thanks for link Blackmore, intersting stuff. 
Damn what I wouldn't give to visit one of the best headphone manufactures in the world. 

There most probably gonna be released some 70 anniversary stuff from them, likely some closed portable cans is my guess.


----------



## Priidik

moonhead said:


> I'm considering getting a Yamaha receiver for HD800, they are not that expensive and plenty power or volts.


 
 I'd really suggest listening it first. Some of these sound like horror. Also if you can, try a Schiit Ragnarok, its supposed to be much better than Mjolnir, then you can share your impressions too


----------



## Moonhead

Not keen on Schiit gear, as I've tried Mjolnir which where a Hugh disappointment, IMO.


----------



## punit

moonhead said:


> Not keen on Schiit gear, as I've tried Mjolnir which where a Hugh disappointment, IMO.


 

 The Mjolnir does not have synergy with HD 800 (or any of the other HP's in your profile) but is amazing with Audeze's & LFF Enigma, in my experience.


----------



## johnjen

moonhead said:


> Not keen on Schiit gear, as I've tried Mjolnir which where a Hugh disappointment, IMO.


 
 Just to ask a couple of quick questions, if I might.
  
 Are you 'handy' with tools and soldering wires and such?
  
 Do you like tube gear?
  
 If yes to both of the above consider Bottlehead's kit OTL amp, called Crack.
 http://bottlehead.com
 And for the turbo charged version add the speedball modification.
 Of course it tube rolls really well too.
  
 And if your not handy with hot molten metal in close proximity to your skin and such… 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 at least consider a Schiit tube amp.
  
  
 The Bottlehead amp mates up really well with the 800's or any high impedance HP due to it not having an output transformer (Output Transformer Less = OTL).
  
 Just a thought or 2 or 3…
  
 JJ


----------



## Moonhead

Mjolnir should be good with Audeze, but never tried that combo, only HD800 and HE6.
Built quality on Mjolnir are poor, so I'm done with Schiit gear, IMO. 

Hate tubes so not going that rute either, thanks anyway.


----------



## Moonhead

Somebody need HE90 with Stax drivers 

Do the scroll 

http://mjolnir-audio.com/?page_id=9


----------



## icebear

Going from Shiit Mjolnir to *Mjölnir Audio* is for sure a little confusing for some.
 They have nothing to do with each other but the name based on Nordic saga.
 As far as I know Mjölnir Audio (Iceland) is only building electrostatic amps.


----------



## Moonhead

Well I made a pit stop for Questyle cma800r which is a much nicer amp and a lot more sturdy built than Mjolnir. 

Well you point it out yourself those two have nothing do you with each other, so not really not fair compering those two, is it  

Both are long gone by now.


----------



## Zoom25

blackmore said:


> Maybe its just me, but I havent see anything about this mentioned up here
> 
> *Sennheiser celebrates its anniversary: 70 years of innovation*
> 
> http://en-de.sennheiser.com/the-pursuit-of-perfect-sound


 
  
 70th anniversary...so...that means a new flagship right
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


moonhead said:


> Zoom
> 
> Let me know if you decide to try your Marantz and how it turns out.
> 
> I'm considering getting a Yamaha receiver for HD800, they are not that expensive and plenty power or volts.


 
 Yeah, will do it today as soon as I get a chance and report back.
  


moonhead said:


> Mjolnir should be good with Audeze, but never tried that combo, only HD800 and HE6.
> Built quality on Mjolnir are poor, so I'm done with Schiit gear, IMO.
> 
> *Hate tubes so not going that rute either, thanks anyway.*


 
  
 I actually really want to try a tube setup once with the HD800 to see how it will sound. Some of the Woo, Stratus/Sonett, EC stuff. It's just that the names of the tubes, rolling this and that, and tube maintenance, warm up time and making sure you don't fall asleep overnight without turning the tubes off - it seems so damn complicated.


----------



## bearFNF

FYI - just so you know Mjolnir Audio is Spitzer's site...one of the Stax enthusiasts here on HeadFi.


----------



## Moonhead

Well dah


----------



## Blackmore

I think they have something to release around the 1st of June, as it is, the DATE!
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


zoom25 said:


> 70th anniversary...so...that means a new flagship right


----------



## V-DiV

Listening to my HD800s.  The 2L Mozart Violin Concertos, Thorsen/Trondheim (24/96) is fantastic this morning - excellent clarity, beautiful tonality, even with my less-than-perfect source.  Soon will be upgrading that (Metrum Octave, NAD M51, PWD MkII...).
  
 I also got out the K701 and SR225i for fun.  
  
 The K701 are really nice for acoustic music, nice sense of space and resolution, but don't have the weight or as much resolution or soundstage as the HD800s.
  
 The SR225i are still fun for guitars (electric or acoustic) even if a big step down from the HD800 in terms of resolution and its sharper, more colored tonality.  Love that mid-bass hump though for a lot of music even if it doesn't have much below that.  Too bad Grado messed up the RS1 with the new RS1e edition (or so I've read).  I was quite interested in having RS1s to complement the HD800s for guitar music.
  
 Happy listening.


----------



## rage3324

v-div said:


> Listening to my HD800s.  The 2L Mozart Violin Concertos, Thorsen/Trondheim (24/96) is fantastic this morning - excellent clarity, beautiful tonality, even with my less-than-perfect source.  Soon will be upgrading that (Metrum Octave, NAD M51, PWD MkII...).
> 
> I also got out the K701 and SR225i for fun.
> 
> ...


 
 Plenty of RS1/RS1i have hit the used market lately. They are a huge step up over the 225/325 (which is where I upgraded from) in terms of imaging, clarity, bass control and smoother/sweeter treble. It really is night and day.


----------



## pearljam50000

Should I wait and not buy the HD800?


----------



## Blackmore

why not, also can save some cash for better source/amp, however I think more of stats than replacing of HD800.
  
 Quote:


pearljam50000 said:


> Should I wait and not buy the HD800?


----------



## pearljam50000

Lol
I'm affraid to buy HD800 now , and in June there will be an improved HD800 for the same price.


----------



## Moonhead

Blackmore 

Just be sure what you are going into with Stax, they are not as reliable and some 007 have cable problems and some 009 have imbalance issues, plus they Should be kept in box when not used to avoid dust in drivers. 

I have owned both 009 and 007 and now are getting HD800 again, they are more fun with the suprême bass slam, where Stax are much more natural sounding, especially with vocals.


----------



## Blackmore

Guys, I was talking about STATS not Stax in particular. I think Sennheiser will release stats to celebrate 70th Anniversary
  




  
 Quote:


pearljam50000 said:


> Lol
> I'm affraid to buy HD800 now , and in June there will be an improved HD800 for the same price.


 
  
  


moonhead said:


> Blackmore
> 
> Just be sure what you are going into with Stax, they are not as reliable and some 007 have cable problems and some 009 have imbalance issues, plus they Should be kept in box when not used to avoid dust in drivers.
> 
> I have owned both 009 and 007 and now are getting HD800 again, they are more fun with the suprême bass slam, where Stax are much more natural sounding, especially with vocals.


----------



## Moonhead

Ah, Roger that


----------



## rage3324

pearljam50000 said:


> Should I wait and not buy the HD800?


 
 I am now wondering the same thing ( I just ordered a pair ). But, there is no guarantee the "new HD800" will be better to you.


----------



## V-DiV

Hey Rage 3324, thanks for the SR225-RS1 comparison.  I usually prefer to buy new so as to avoid issues that somebody wants to pass on.  But given the fact that I can't buy them new anymore (unless Grado "fixes" them) I will probably pick up a used RS1i sometime, but not until after upgrading my source.
  
 HD800 and Emerson Quartet playing Haydn (Deutsche Gramophon, 16/44) sounding pretty great at the moment.


----------



## V-DiV

If there is an improved HD800 or new flagship, it may well be more expensive.  But then remaining stock of the current HD800 could be discounted and or there may be a number of used ones come up for sale by those who want the newest/bestest Sennheiser.


----------



## Moonhead

Talk of new flagship = unsubscribe. 






Just kiddin


----------



## icebear

The law of diminishing returns is not only valid for the consumer buying more expensive gear and the improvement steps in return for investment gets get smaller and smaller. It also applies to any company in regards to technical and financial effort to improve on something that is already considered top of the line. How much more can you improve the HD800 in terms of accurate reproduction of acoustic instruments recorded in a live session? Giving the HD800 a different flavor to meet personal taste preferences is what is going on already with users trying various amps, cables, mods etc. This is just like spicing up the soup to your liking, this is not improving the recipe.
  
 There might be marginal improvements possible to the HD800 but to be realistic, anyone expecting a significant step up is dreaming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
 But yeah OK, nothing bad about dreaming from time to time


----------



## pearljam50000

Possible HD900 improvements over HD800: made from metal, and comes with a wooden box,and the drivers are 70mm(celebrating its 70th anniversary)
^_^


----------



## V-DiV

Woohoo!  Time for Zeppelin - crank up those 800s.  I just ordered a PWD MkII (bought from Underwood Hifi; refurbished by PS Audio from trade-ins; $1500 with 1 yr manufacturer warranty).  Time to get some more high-res music, like the Jimmy Page Led Zeppelin remasters.


----------



## pearljam50000

But the HD800's can't rock! 
You need a pair of Grado's (;


----------



## Moonhead

Hats Off for pure honesty, Icebear


----------



## V-DiV

Not ideal for hard rock with the big soundstage and not in your face-ness.  But they still sound mighty good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Not tops with Led Zeppelin (I need to get RS1s for that).  They are great for less-hard rock like Doobie Brothers, which are also nicely-recorded - I love that Warner Brothers sound.


----------



## bearFNF

Heh, I find it amusing that we keep coming back to the "new flagship" talk, been rumors for a year or more about this.
  
 No reason to wait, if you can afford them and want them, just get them and be happy. No regrets here...


----------



## longbowbbs

icebear said:


> The law of diminishing returns is not only valid for the consumer buying more expensive gear and the improvement steps in return for investment gets get smaller and smaller. It also applies to any company in regards to technical and financial effort to improve on something that is already considered top of the line. How much more can you improve the HD800 in terms of accurate reproduction of acoustic instruments recorded in a live session? Giving the HD800 a different flavor to meet personal taste preferences is what is going on already with users trying various amps, cables, mods etc. This is just like spicing up the soup to your liking, this is not improving the recipe.
> 
> There might be marginal improvements possible to the HD800 but to be realistic, anyone expecting a significant step up is dreaming
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a few choice to listen to and the HD800 is still #1 for me.


----------



## TonyNewman

bearfnf said:


> Heh, I find it amusing that we keep coming back to the "new flagship" talk, been rumors for a year or more about this.
> 
> No reason to wait, just get them and be happy.


 
  
_*Disclaimer - I have no evidence for what follows below apart from wild rumour and snippets from folks "in the trade". So get your salt shaker out and apply liberally.*_
  
 What I have heard is that the Sennheiser are working on an updated Orpheus style of elite headphone, perhaps with a matching amp. Small production run and a very high price tag. Not a mass market product like the HD800.
  
 I hope this is wrong and Sennheiser will produce a new TOTL headphone 'for the masses' rather than a statement product.


----------



## TonyNewman

longbowbbs said:


> I have a few choice to listen to and the HD800 is still #1 for me.


 
  
 Nice selection of headphones there, but no HE6? I am getting great results mating my 430HA to the HD800 and the HE6. Not so much on the LCD-X.
  
 Very preliminary results as I have less than 100 hours on the 430HA and burn in is incomplete.
  
 If you have access to a HE6 (even better - a modded HE6) it would be great to hear your thoughts on how well the 430HA drives them.


----------



## longbowbbs

tonynewman said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I have a few choice to listen to and the HD800 is still #1 for me.
> ...


 
 Geez, Tony I thought I was doing well getting the Abyss in house...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I do not have a source for HE-6's atm. I will keep looking though!


----------



## TonyNewman

longbowbbs said:


> Geez, Tony I thought I was doing well getting the Abyss in house...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry - not trying to be pushy - just looking for input from folks that have tried the HE6 + 430HA combination 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Enjoying the heck out of this amp so far.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

pearljam50000 said:


> Possible HD900 improvements over HD800: made from metal, and comes with a wooden box,and the drivers are 70mm(celebrating its 70th anniversary)
> ^_^


 

 OK, OK... you win... I give!
  
 I have been Working Undercover on the New Flagship Sennheiser, and despite my signed Non-Disclosure agreement, the comments here prompt me to reveal what the new Sennheise HD 1000 wlll be (sorry, Sennheiser!  But you never gave me that pair of Beats headphones you promised!):
  
 I have pilfered a picture of the new HD 1000 from the Sennheiser lab, shown here in its case.  As you can see, it will be sold in the same case as the present HD 800:
  

  
 The HD 1000 offers several improvements over the HD 800:
  

Even more than Grado headphones the new HD 1000 is completely transparent!   The picture above confirms this, as you can see ALL of the back of the box, even under the HD 1000.
The HD 1000 is also weightless... you will never know that you are wearing it. (no weight indentations in the box)
The HD 1000 is very soft... you cannot feel any pressure squeezing your ears or weighting your head.
The HD 1000 is wireless... no messy cables to stumble over.
The HD 1000 is so completely realistic that it comes with the new Sennheiser Realism Guarantee ("SRG") -- listen to what is around you without the HD 1000, then put them on and listen. We guarantee that you will not be able to tell the difference!  Complete realism, as measured by A/B blind testing over dozens of trial users.  Unlike most headphones that fight their environment by trying to impose their own sounds upon your ear, the HD 1000 will complement the acoustic environment that you are in, providing exact reproduction of its sounds.
  
 Like the HD 800, introduced at a price that was double its model number, the HD 1000 will be offered at $2,000, double its model number.
  
 However, I stole several prototypes from the lab and I am happy to sell them at half price, or $1,000 each.  Since they are weightless, there is no charge for shipping other than the cost of shipping the box. 
  
 Please.... first come, first served!


----------



## lukeap69

Cracking!  Made my day.


----------



## Moonhead




----------



## Samuel777

Unbelievable !!!!!!!


----------



## brokenthumb

Will there be a HDVD 1000 wireless amp and dac for the HD1000 also?!  My current amps are not wireless.


----------



## pearljam50000

Are you saying the HD800 is better than the Abyss?


longbowbbs said:


> I have a few choice to listen to and the HD800 is still #1 for me.


----------



## longbowbbs

pearljam50000 said:


> Are you saying the HD800 is better than the Abyss?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I would say it is a different mountaintop. My mountaintop. The Abyss is excellent, so is the LCD-X and the Alpha Primes are just fun. Still if I had only one it would be the HD800's for my personal choice.


----------



## pearljam50000

You just made my day because i cant afford the Abyss lol


----------



## pearljam50000

@kayandjohn
^-^
Thanks for the inside info and laugh


----------



## pearljam50000

Can you write a short comparison of the HD800 and Abyss?
Thanks.


longbowbbs said:


> I would say it is a different mountaintop. My mountaintop. The Abyss is excellent, so is the LCD-X and the Alpha Primes are just fun. Still if I had only one it would be the HD800's for my personal choice.


----------



## TonyNewman

longbowbbs said:


> I would say it is a different mountaintop. My mountaintop. The Abyss is excellent, so is the LCD-X and the Alpha Primes are just fun. Still if I had only one it would be the HD800's for my personal choice.


 
  
 The HD800 scales with the right pairing in a way that stunned me. I had mine for a long time and was not particularly impressed with it - until I hooked it up to my 845 SET amp speaker taps via the HiFiMan adapter box. 20W of tube goodness driving the HD800 transforms this headphone into something I wasn't expecting at all. Amazingly good and right up there (almost) with my modded HE6.
  
 Jury is still out for me, but I suspect the 430HA might do an even job driving the HD800 than my 845 amp speaker taps.
  
 The HD800 wins on comfort vs the TOTL planars on the weight factor alone. It feels like nothing on your head, even after a lengthy session. Can't say about the HE6 or LCD-X.


----------



## longbowbbs

HD800 vs Abyss 1266
  
 Both are very detailed and fast. The HD800 has the best soundstage of any headphone I have heard. The abyss is good but not HD800 good for that. Bass is stronger with the Abyss, though at times, for me, I find it distracting to the rest of the frequencies. The HD800 is not perfect here either. At times I wish it was a bit more solid on the bottom end. However, it never distracts for me like the Abyss (or the other Planars for that matter) can. 
  
 The thing the HD800's do for me that I cannot get consistently from other HP's is put me into the music. Every other HP feels like I am watching from above the performance. The HD800's put me in the performance and the scale of space is enormous.
  
 Comfort is a no brainer to the HD800's. 
  
 I hope that is useful. YMMV.


----------



## Nothing Within

T





pleasantsounds said:


> WA7 is good, but not that good. It's quite neutral for a tube amp, very detailed and well extended - at least with the upgraded tubes and power supply. The sound is subtle and comes from a noise free background. What it lacks for me though is pure raw brutal slam. It just doesn't deliver in this department.
> 
> I have been using it with the HD800 for about a year, but if you disregard the honeymoon period, I have been most of that time on the outlook for something more satisfying, as it always had me wanting more and feeling there must be another level out there. And there is.
> 
> I don't want to sway you to spend more, as that may be necessary to get to that level, but rather set your expectations right. With the WA7 you'd be getting a very capable and quite enjoyable amp that can handle most of dynamic and planar headphones, but if my experience is any indication, it won't deliver the end-game feeling.


 
Thank you. Although i would have to wait longer it would not matter to me as long as the price range is not hitting over $9000. The beauty is what i strive for in the plucks of a string.. Or the rubber to wood plunk from a xylophone. I will just keep searching then. Thank you once again.


----------



## Nothing Within

Ahh interesting that setup will be a good start to look at for the hd800. You are truly right and i highly agree as long as you are happy! Thanks i appreciate it!


----------



## pearljam50000

@longbowbbs
Thanks alot, very helpful , i appreciate it


----------



## longbowbbs

pearljam50000 said:


> @longbowbbs
> Thanks alot, very helpful , i appreciate it


 
 You are welcome.


----------



## MickeyVee

Wow! The other company I have a sweet spot for is SimAudio (and it's Canadian!).. Would love to hear the Moon Neo 430HA side by side with the McIntosh! With the DAC installed, it's inline with the price of the Mc but the Mc has the 50wpc speaker amp to boot.
 Quote:


longbowbbs said:


> I have a few choice to listen to and the HD800 is still #1 for me.


----------



## longbowbbs

mickeyvee said:


> Wow! The other company I have a sweet spot for is SimAudio (and it's Canadian!).. Would love to hear the Moon Neo 430HA side by side with the McIntosh! With the DAC installed, it's inline with the price of the Mc but the Mc has the 50wpc speaker amp to boot.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It is a happy thing MV. I am not sure the review unit is going to leave my house.


----------



## knowhatimean

Which house is yours again ? You don't have a big dog do you ?
  
 You're okay I don't know any "shady characters" in NW Wisconsin (& what would a shady "Wisconsiner" be anyway
 someone with a "souped up fishing rod ?) ("Hand over the SimAudio & no one gets hooked !!")


----------



## longbowbbs

knowhatimean said:


> Which house is yours again ? You don't have a big dog do you ?
> 
> You're okay I don't know any "shady characters" in NW Wisconsin (& what would a shady "Wisconsiner" be anyway
> someone with a "souped up fishing rod ?) ("Hand over the SimAudio & no one gets hooked !!")


 
 Actually, you would attempt to trade me lot's of cheese for it!


----------



## olor1n

punit said:


> moonhead said:
> 
> 
> > Not keen on Schiit gear, as I've tried Mjolnir which where a Hugh disappointment, IMO.
> ...


 

 I must be the only person in all of HeadFidom more than content with the Mjolnir/HD800 pairing. The Mjolnir is so synonymous with the Gungnir that the two components may as well be one. It's noteworthy to me, and not a surprise given my own experience with the chain, that most people who categorically dismiss the Mjolnir as a suitable amp for the HD800 have it tethered to the Gungnir or similar sounding dac.
  
 Whilst the Mjolnir may not be the most technically capable amp compared to the Summit-Fi Approved wonderboxes, it is undoubtedly transparent enough to allow the signature characteristics of upstream components through, without smearing that sound with its own colouration. And as we all preach, the HD800 is a headphone that presents everything as is, warts and all. I suspect the "stigma" around the Mjolnir is one caused by upstream components and its own signature doing little to mask qualities that the HD800 then lays bare.
  
 Most subscribe to the mantra of "synergy" - but surely you can't dismiss an amp/headphone pairing without also addressing the source of the stream.


----------



## paradoxper

The Mjolnir was pretty good with the HD800 with various sources, however, it's just that much better with a lot of orthos.
 The HD800 will never mask itself for what it is with SS components love it or leave it.


----------



## johnjen

olor1n said:


> I must be the only person in all of HeadFidom more than content with the Mjolnir/HD800 pairing. The Mjolnir is so synonymous with the Gungnir that the two components may as well be one. It's noteworthy to me, and not a surprise given my own experience with the chain, that most people who categorically dismiss the Mjolnir as a suitable amp for the HD800 have it tethered to the Gungnir or similar sounding dac.
> 
> Whilst the Mjolnir may not be the most technically capable amp compared to the Summit-Fi Approved wonderboxes, it is undoubtedly transparent enough to allow the signature characteristics of upstream components through, without smearing that sound with its own colouration. And as we all preach, the HD800 is a headphone that presents everything as is, warts and all. I suspect the "stigma" around the Mjolnir is one caused by upstream components and its own signature doing little to mask qualities that the HD800 then lays bare.
> 
> Most subscribe to the mantra of "synergy" - but surely you can't dismiss an amp/headphone pairing without also addressing the source of the stream.


 
 +1 x 10^5
 Until The Rok, I was running the Mojo amp and it pairs up with the 800's very, very well…
 IF
 the rest of the system matches up, or can help create a synergistic pairing.
  
 The PWD –> Mojo –> 800's can be a thrilling combination but much also depends upon the rest of the setup.  That is if you want to discover how far this combination can really scale.
  
 JJ


----------



## JustinS

nigeljames said:


> To say the HD800's have poor bass or are bright just means to me that they are not being driven correctly. That could mean poor ancillary components or poor synergy but the HD800's are capable of excellent bass, plenty of body and no brightness if driven properly.




I totally agree with this comment. I bought a pair of HD800s about 4 years ago, and drove them with a Weiss DAC202. Very simply, they were nasty horrible things, after about 30 minutes, I could take no more. They had a bright shrill, and sibilant treble, very, very fatiguing and they were sold on with no remorse. Last year I bought a Mcintosh MHA100 headphone amp/Dac to use with PS1000, the sound was fantastic, but I wanted to tone down the bass just a little. At Christmas I took a flyer and ordered another pair of 800s. All I can say is WOW, I now feel the headphones are being driven properly, and sound absolutely sublime. The bass is taught and deep when the recording needs it, the treble is so natural and open, with LOTS of detail, and I can listen for hours. From spending 4 years slating them, they are now my favourite headphone by quite some margin.


----------



## Moonhead

Seems like a hq stereo amp with lots of volts could be a good match with HD800.


----------



## preproman

moonhead said:


> Seems like a hq stereo amp with lots of volts could be a good match with HD800.


 
  
 Yes indeed...


----------



## skeptic

pearljam50000 said:


> Possible HD900 improvements over HD800: made from metal, and comes with a wooden box,and the drivers are 70mm(celebrating its 70th anniversary)
> ^_^




Fwiw, the plastic used on the hd800s is actually one of the four patented parts of the design that sets hd800s a step above. A Senn rep weighed in on this a couple years back in this thread or its predecesor. They tried numerous materials - wood, metals, etc and the ultimate plastic was by far the best in minimizing resonances and weight/maximizing comfort. A metal hd800 would be a huge downgrade.


----------



## Moonhead

Wow nice one Preproman, do tell


----------



## sp3llv3xit

olor1n said:


> I must be the only person in all of HeadFidom more than content with the Mjolnir/HD800 pairing. The Mjolnir is so synonymous with the Gungnir that the two components may as well be one. It's noteworthy to me, and not a surprise given my own experience with the chain, that most people who categorically dismiss the Mjolnir as a suitable amp for the HD800 have it tethered to the Gungnir or similar sounding dac.
> 
> Whilst the Mjolnir may not be the most technically capable amp compared to the Summit-Fi Approved wonderboxes, it is undoubtedly transparent enough to allow the signature characteristics of upstream components through, without smearing that sound with its own colouration. And as we all preach, the HD800 is a headphone that presents everything as is, warts and all. I suspect the "stigma" around the Mjolnir is one caused by upstream components and its own signature doing little to mask qualities that the HD800 then lays bare.
> 
> Most subscribe to the mantra of "synergy" - but surely you can't dismiss an amp/headphone pairing without also addressing the source of the stream.


 


 I tried the HD800 and Mjolnir pairing and even did a few cable rolling.  ALO's Reference 16 silver/copper hybrid;  DHC Peptide v1 and the DHC Molecules Extreme.  

 The Mjolnir pairing got beaten by my portable rig driving the HD800. 
  
  

  

  





 That said, the Mjolnir sounds superb with the LCD-X.


----------



## 62ohm

I guess I made the right choice by getting the HDVA 600 instead of the Mjolnir 8 months ago..


----------



## MickeyVee

+1 ~ Exactly my experience with the McIntosh and HD800. I've been meaning to write a review but have been too busy listening 
 Quote:


> Last year I bought a Mcintosh MHA100 headphone amp/Dac to use with PS1000, the sound was fantastic, but I wanted to tone down the bass just a little. At Christmas I took a flyer and ordered another pair of 800s. All I can say is WOW, I now feel the headphones are being driven properly, and sound absolutely sublime. The bass is taught and deep when the recording needs it, the treble is so natural and open, with LOTS of detail, and I can listen for hours. From spending 4 years slating them, they are now my favourite headphone by quite some margin.


----------



## JustinS

Loving your style (and system) Mickey!!


----------



## h1f1add1cted

sp3llv3xit said:


> The Mjolnir pairing got beaten by my portable rig driving the HD800.


 
 I see your DAP is a A&K 240 which is connecet via optical toslink to your Cord Hugo DAC/AMP, but what is your AMP in the bottom and how do you connect your Cord Hugo with that AMP? Thanks


----------



## Justin_Time

sp3llv3xit said:


> I tried the HD800 and Mjolnir pairing and even did a few cable rolling.  ALO's Reference 16 silver/copper hybrid;  DHC Peptide v1 and the DHC Molecules Extreme.
> 
> The Mjolnir pairing got beaten by my portable rig driving the HD800.
> 
> That said, the Mjolnir sounds superb with the LCD-X.


 
 I am not surprised.  
  
 Mjolnir/HD800:  that is one of the worse pairings possible, accentuating all the negatives of both gears.
  
 In addition to the LCD-X, I found the LCD2/LCD3 to also work very well with the Mjolnir, though these combinations can be a bit fatiguing in long listening--perhaps too much of a good thing.


----------



## Moonhead

Amen to that! ^ ^


----------



## preproman

justin_time said:


> *Mjolnir/HD800:  that is one of the worse pairings possible,* accentuating all the negatives of both gears.


 
  
 Some folks feel it's a very good pairing - Heavily depending on the source / DAC.


----------



## Justin_Time

preproman said:


> Some folks feel it's a very good pairing - Heavily depending on the source / DAC.


 
 In my own experience, the HD800/Mjolnir combination exacerbated the tendency toward sibilance and over-etched treble _regardless_ of the Sources/DACs I tried--even with the Anaxilus Mod--from the PS Audio PerfectWave Mk2 to the Oppo 95/105 (SABRE), to the ultra-smooth RWA Bellini (Burr/Brown). 
  
 I even tried Vinyl (SME30/SME5/Koetsu Urushi) to Jeff Roland Consummate preamp as a balanced source to the Mjolnir: nothing doing.  The HD800/Mjolnir combo remained way too hot to handle.  But perhaps some folks like this sound.  I did not. 
  
 The [HD800/RWA Bellini] combo or [LCD2-LCD3/Mjolnir] combo, on the other hand, worked out just fine with all above sources, even with the rather bright SABRE chips.


----------



## preproman

justin_time said:


> In my own experience, the HD800/Mjolnir combination exacerbated the tendency toward sibilance and over-etched treble _regardless_ of the Sources/DACs I tried--even with the Anaxilus Mod--from the PS Audio PerfectWave Mk2 to the Oppo 95/105 (SABRE), to the ultra-smooth RWA Bellini (Burr/Brown).
> 
> I even tried Vinyl (SME30/SME5/Koetsu Urushi) to Jeff Roland Consummate preamp as a balanced source to the Mjolnir: nothing doing.  The HD800/Mjolnir combo remained way too hot to handle.  But perhaps some folks like this sound.  I did not.
> 
> The [HD800/RWA Bellini] combo or [LCD2-LCD3/Mjolnir] combo, on the other hand, worked out just fine with all above sources, even with the rather bright SABRE chips.


 

 Hey,  I gotcha...  
  
 However, there are others out there with different experiences. So different sources / DACs made the pairing work for them.  Different people = different experiences.


----------



## olor1n

Gungnir>Mjolnir>Q cable>HD800 = Energetic. Fun on initial listen but ultimately fatiguing. Shouty presentation and brittle upper registers evident with certain material. Couldn't live with it.

NAD M51>Mjolnir>Q cable>HD800 = Smooth, without sacrificing treble extension and resolution. Less "shouty" i.e. more dynamic range - can listen to it for hours without a hint of fatigue. Solved ALL the issues I had with the Schiit stack without any compromise. All aspects of SQ improved upon.

My HD800 is stock. No mods applied or required.

Logical conclusion: The Mjolnir is AOK.


----------



## knowhatimean

justin_time said:


> preproman said:
> 
> 
> > Some folks feel it's a very good pairing - Heavily depending on the source / DAC.
> ...


 
 The truth of the matter (& it's even stated on templates for the Anax mod) is that this mod really wasn't intended to address "fixing"
 the HD800's brightness . This can be done with another mod, but that requires you to remove the grilles from behind the drivers by taking that metal ring off on the inside off so you can lift those grilles off . Then you can put the Anax mod back in place.
  
 The "stock" HD800 sounded bright even through my Metrum Hex DAC which I would say is also ultra-smooth. My first thought was
 there was no way these headphones would even be listenable through a DAC that oversamples. There is a ceiling to what improvements you can make to these headphones through equipment substitution as the Hps themselves are creating the resonance
 system changes are just "blunting" what you don't want to hear !
  
 It was worth the effort to bring my HD800s to where I've been able & I can't stop listening ! (You were being way too kind only calling the SABRE chips rather bright !!!) (that's like saying boiling water is a "little" hot)


----------



## kapanak

Honestly, I use the Concero HD with Valhalla 2, both of which are neutral with a slight leaning towards bright.

Sabre chips aren't bright, they just have this artificial sounding treble and digital crispness (not a good kind of crisp), though a good implementation, such as the Concero line or the X-Sabre tends to fix some of its issues.

Then again, I really think the $1000 Sabre box are the FOTM and will soon drop WAY below their original price.


----------



## Justin_Time

knowhatimean said:


> The truth of the matter (& it's even stated on templates for the Anax mod) is that this mod really wasn't intended to address "fixing"
> the HD800's brightness . This can be done with another mod, but that requires you to remove the grilles from behind the drivers by taking that metal ring off on the inside off so you can lift those grilles off . Then you can put the Anax mod back in place.
> 
> The "stock" HD800 sounded bright even through my Metrum Hex DAC which I would say is also ultra-smooth. My first thought was
> ...


 
 Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Justin_Time

preproman said:


> Hey,  I gotcha...
> 
> However, there are others out there with different experiences. So different sources / DACs made the pairing work for them.  Different people = different experiences.


 
 Still, if there is anyone out there that was able to find any source/DAC that can make the combination HD800/Schiit Mjolnir work without sibilance/brightness/Edginess, I would like to hear about it.


----------



## paradoxper

The M51 made the HD800 boring. So sweeping generalizations don't help anyone.


----------



## jhljhl

I highly recommend the endorphin cable for hd800. copper cables.  I think it makes the treble less etched.  What people refer to also as sibilance. Or the fingernails against chalkboard.  Hd800 + wa22 + gungir. Good combination.


----------



## preproman

jhljhl said:


> *I highly recommend the endorphin cable for hd800. copper cables. *


 
  
 Yup, A Solid Core Copper cable.  I ad mine hardwired as well.  Took a few of the connectors away.  SAA cables are priced kinda high but the result is spot on.


----------



## Priidik

Have anyone a-b'd hardwired vs regular HD800?
 I can hear the benefits from copper cable, esp when compared directly to pair with original at hands reach.


----------



## Justin_Time

knowhatimean said:


> The truth of the matter (& it's even stated on templates for the Anax mod) is that this mod really wasn't intended to address "fixing"
> the HD800's brightness . This can be done with another mod, but that requires you to remove the grilles from behind the drivers by taking that metal ring off on the inside off so you can lift those grilles off . Then you can put the Anax mod back in place.
> 
> The "stock" HD800 sounded bright even through my Metrum Hex DAC which I would say is also ultra-smooth. My first thought was
> ...


 
 Fortunately, I did not have to go through such extreme modification of the HD800 to get a smooth treble, free of sibilance and stridency.
  
 When I replaced the Mjolnir with the Cavalli Liquid Fire (Black Sable Mullards or Telefunken NOS Diamond Bottom tubes) or with the Apex Peak/Volcano (Shuguang CV-181 Z Grade A+),in particular, the HD800 sounded just fine even with the SABRE chips  in the Oppo 105.
  
 To me, matching DAC/Amp/HP is  something that we have to do when dealing with a very high-resolution HP, which the flagship of every brand tends to be, and the HD-800 is no exception--I had to do similar matching with the top of the line Audeze, Fostex, Grado, and Hifiman.


----------



## koiloco

Sunday afternoon music session.
  
 Stockfish:  the art of recording (2009) HD = superb on HD800.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Highly recommended!
  
 Try it out and see if you still think HD800 is bright or lacking in bass.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

justin_time said:


> I am not surprised.
> 
> Mjolnir/HD800:  that is one of the worse pairings possible, accentuating all the negatives of both gears.
> 
> In addition to the LCD-X, I found the LCD2/LCD3 to also work very well with the Mjolnir, though these combinations can be a bit fatiguing in long listening--perhaps too much of a good thing.


 



 I like well-extended and full-bodied trebles.  So the X + Mjolnir tandem is as good as I can get out of a planars.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

mickeyvee said:


>


 



 That is fantastic!  McIntosh.  Hm...


----------



## sp3llv3xit

h1f1add1cted said:


> I see your DAP is a A&K 240 which is connecet via optical toslink to your Cord Hugo DAC/AMP, but what is your AMP in the bottom and how do you connect your Cord Hugo with that AMP? Thanks


 



 It's a custom DIY amp.  It has great bass slam.  I was about to decommission it months ago then the Chord device came along.   By all accounts, it is quite good.  Hugo's dac function is superb  but its amp leaves much room to be desired for.   I like to listen to the 800 because of its airy treble and large soundstage.  Now, I finally found a way to bring the HD800 to the office and be satisfied with just a portable rig driving it.


----------



## johnjen

preproman said:


> Yup, A Solid Core Copper cable.  I ad mine hardwired as well.  Took a few of the connectors away.  SAA cables are priced kinda high but the result is spot on.


 
 Actually its like ≈ 7 wires rather than a single conductor which helps with the flexibility of the cable overall.
  
 JJ


----------



## johnjen

justin_time said:


> I am not surprised.
> 
> Mjolnir/HD800:  that is one of the worse pairings possible, accentuating all the negatives of both gears.
> 
> In addition to the LCD-X, I found the LCD2/LCD3 to also work very well with the Mjolnir, though these combinations can be a bit fatiguing in long listening--perhaps too much of a good thing.


 
 In my investigations/experimentations I've been running the Mojo amp with a PWD DAC, and once the power delivery was 'sorted' the PWD and the Mojo became sublime while driving the 800's.  And this was before I added the SAA mods with the hardwired endorphin cable.
  
 One thing that I have learned about the Mojo and The Rok is, they are rather 'sensitive' to poor ac power.
 Indeed 'cleaning up' the ac feed that powers my system has been the single most significant improvement, not just in terms of dealing with any unwanted 'artifacts' but more so in opening up the entire soundstage, in every way.
  
 I would never have ever guessed that these sorts of acoustic improvements would result from 'strenghtening' the ac power delivery, but the more I fuss with this whole aspect of my system, the more benefit I am finding.
  
 Indeed, my use of the term 'choke points' was dervived from my ac power investigations/experiments, where all sorts of acoustical improvements became very evident just by optimizing the ac power delivery that feeds my ≈ 110 watts of audio system load.  And I'm still trying to 'figure out' why these improvements have such a huge net effect.
  
 But what started me on this path was adding a varient of the anax v.1 mod with its resultant drop in LFF (Listener Fatigue Factor).  This reduction in 'irritation' was like a light switch which in turn initiated a cascade effect of other experiments which then led to my ac power 'projects'.
  
 Yes all this fussing is probably more than most are willing/able to undertake, but to me this is what is at the very heart of the whole notion of DIY'ng.
 Pursue the results of what the emprical method reveals and continue with 'hunches' that are worth the time and effort to investigate further.  And none of the changes I've made are difficult or complicated, but they do entail a degree of fussing with wires and duplex receptacles and such.
  
 JJ


----------



## Justin_Time

JJ,
  
 Very interesting!
  
 Just a few observations.
  
 First, I think that if we buy a flagship of any brand, we should expect to do some work to get the best sound out of it. I do not think what you have done is beyond what is to be expected to get the best out of the HD800.
  
 Second, could you elaborate what you meant by" 'cleaning up' the AC feed " and " 'strenghtening' the ac power delivery."   What did you do specifically that made it possible allow you to use the HD-800 and Mjolnir successfully together without the sibilance/brightness that I still hear in my system using the PS PW Mk2 or any other DAC, even Vinyl Analog input?
  
 Third,  am quite aware of the Gremlins in the AC supply, especially at certain times of the day.  But my HP system is hooked up to the Shunyata Hydra Triton Power Conditioner and all AC plugs directly used are protected by the Shunyata Venom PS8/DEfender Power Conditioner bundle.  All power cords are WireWorld Electra or Silver Electra. The whole power filtering/condition/power cords accessories set me back nearly $10,000.  Still, the HD-800/Mjolnir combo--with different DACs and even with Vinyl analog input--did not perform anywhere closed to what you described. The sibilance/brightness is still there, unless I changed amps. 
  
 If my AC supply remains a problem as you suggested, am not sure what more I can do.  Any suggestion is welcome.


----------



## knowhatimean

justin_time said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > The truth of the matter (& it's even stated on templates for the Anax mod) is that this mod really wasn't intended to address "fixing"
> ...


 
 Cavalli Liquid Fire & the Apex Peak/Volcano ? A few years ago I think someone at the Cable Co. suggested  the Cavalli to me when
 I asked if he could get a Fosgate Signature for me. It wasn't in my budget "unfortunately".
  
 Being "Addicted" to the Metrum "sound" the "Dome of Silence" with any talk of OS DACs. I listen to nothing but Acoustic music &
 have to believe that the Metrums are the DACs of choice for this ! 
  
 (Every so often I "try" to get the Fosgate to work for me, but seem to give up after a few days regardless of what NOS tubes I try) (& the grille removal "truely" isn't that extreme or difficult; just look at it as getting rid of Sennheiser's mistake)


----------



## johnjen

justin_time said:


> JJ,
> 
> Very interesting!
> 
> ...


 
  
*Depending upon how 'comfortable' you are with dealing with wires, as in live 120vac wires, I'd suggest starting at your panel and trip every breaker in it.*
*One at a time, including (if it's possible) the main breakers.*
*But while each branch circuit is off (having just tripped it off) check the tightness of each screw that clamps onto the wire that then exits that circuit breaker.*
  
*IF you find a 'loose' connection, pull the wire out and look at it to make sure its not discolored or 'burnt'.*
*If so re-terminate that wire and clamp it down 'firmly'.*
  
*Check every branch circuit (while it's off) and make sure the screws are all clamped down 'firmly'.*
  
*Also breakers 'should be' tripped off then reset back on, every so often, and while doing so pay attention to the 'feel' of the breaker as it trips off and then when you reset it back on.  If any feel 'funny' (a technical term) or 'different' from the rest, replace it.*
  
*This single proceedure can 'cure' many electrically related problems.*
*But if the branch circuit that feeds your system is limited right at the panel, no amount of down stream filtering or the like will 'cure' that limitation.  *
*What's more, if another adjacent circuit has 'problems' it can induce or be a source of 'noise'.*
  
*The next series of steps are more involved and require more specifics than the equipment you've listed in you ac distribution setup.  For instance I assume you have already replaced the duplex receptacle in the wall that supplies the power for the entire system.*
  
*If so try plugging the mojo directly into the wall and bypass everything.*
*Take it and the dac back to as basic a setup as possible.*
*Find out if the conditioner etc really does help, or not.*
  
*And this last suggestion is where being comfortable with live 120VAC wires comes into play because these are the feed lines that come in directly from the pole (or from underground if newer construction).*
*THEY ARE VERY DANGEROUS.*
*So proceed with all due caution.*
  
*But one additional tweak to try is add WA-Q chips to the main power feed lines that feed your main breaker (assuming you have only one main panel).  This is an 'experiment' that can be 'reversed' very easily and the chips can be returned if they don't 'help'.*
  
*I simply ty-rapped 1) WA-Quantum cable chip to each of the main feeder line before the main breakers.*
*I left the paper backing on the chip and simply wrapped it around the insulation of the power feed cable, then ty-rapped it in place.  I also added a cable chip to the main power feed neutral line as well.*
  
*A set of 5 of these cable chips is $200.*
*The Cable Co has them as do other sources.*
  
*But let me add that if the branch circuit you are running everything on is an already heavily used circuit to begin with this can be an additional source of 'problems'.*
*If so, that can have a detrimental effect in and of itself.  And since I'm just Wild-Ass-Guessing on this, it may be way off in left field, but to determine if this is so is a whole nuther level of investigation.*
  
*JJ*


----------



## knowhatimean

This is just too good to pass up as I'm sitting here totally transfixed on the "Light" music I'm currently listening to at the moment.
 ( lied a little bit it's actually MTT conducting the SFO in the Mahler 3rd from Davies Hall). The HD800 can sound absolutely spectacular
 playing Mahler with all the "were did that come from" moments in his Symphonies !
  
 To really appreciate the full measure of the constant "inventiveness" of this Orchestral writing & become absorbed in it you have to take some steps to ensure that your system can reach way down into the "noise floor" of the recording as you will absolutely miss some of
 the magic, as many passages start from a very silent place & "bloom" into a dialog as they proceed. It's the "gradation" of how very
 deep your playback source can reach into this sonic landscape that grabs your attention & says to you "other things I'd planned can wait !"
  
 . One of the "choke"* points to achieving the ability to even enter this landscape starts before any musical signal is even processed Noise that is all but inaudible to the human ear (dogs hear much better; maybe because they can hear all the "noise" we can't hear but our ears are busy filtering out) is not so to our equipment & so it is passed on w/ whatever music that's been processed. If you don't listen to Orchestral music all the time the noise that's being passed along may be of no real significance but be assured that you are not hearing the complete tonal acoustic characteristics of what was recorded.
  
 Played musical notes excite the air surrounding the instruments for only so long & they're individual excitations so the playing of
 massed instruments really shouldn't be "blurring" the starting transients of other instruments or creating a "sheen of air" that slightly obscures the general spatial locations of where the sound is originating from. Its not typical of what the HD800 can sound like but
 when you've made the effort to address some existing "pre listening" conditions, & corrected some of the HD800s basic Inadequacies
 you can raise the ceiling of the HD800s ability to gain a very refined & addictive listening experience. Equipment matching alone
 will not achieve this level of "exactitude" & entrance to this consistitently superior musical experience.
  
 This is of course not totally necessary to enjoy the HD800, but it's available if you should ever feel inclined for "sky's the limit"
 performance from them, The only catch is you must spend some very worthwhile effort. I've been at this hobby for about 25 or
 30 years now & these headphones (as they are now) are one of the best pieces of "Audio Excellence" I've come across
 (But once again I'll mention, you have to bring them up to "that" level; they're "good enough" for many without the effort, but
 good enough doesn't go close to far enough myself). (Mahler's 3rd sounded great; time for his 4th)
  
 (Never recognized that Shostakovich uses similar "musical inventions" & that would imply that Prokofiev does also; you don't
 suppose they listened to some Mahler do you ?)
  
 *(as JJ mentions) (WA Quantam Chips of course , I'm surprised John didn't also mention them to me when I bought an Equitech
 1.5 Q Balanced Audio Transformer line conditioner (exceptional) from him ; I'm interested in placing a few in my Burson Soloist
 hp amp! I've talked enough though , so I out of here.
  
 ~steve


----------



## johnjen

Just wait until you hear the air handling system, chugging along, in the background, down in the 10-30Hz range, just before the start of the very next movement…  :thumb
  
 AND can identify it as such…  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 JJ


----------



## ruthieandjohn

johnjen said:


> Just wait until you hear the air handling system, chugging along, in the background, down in the 10-30Hz range, just before the start of the very next movement…  :thumb
> 
> AND can identify it as such…
> 
> ...


 

 We here in the lab are about to discover that nitrogen, in addition to enhancing the performance of the tires it inflates, improves the sounds that pass from transducer to eardrum through it.  Starting small, we will introduce twin straws between ear and earphone to feed in nitrogen for passing the sound from the driver to the eardrum, with the nitrogen stored in a propellor-topped beanie cap.  When we have made our first million dollars there, we will expand to nitrogen-filled listening rooms (with oxygen masks for occupants) for enhanced speaker listening.


----------



## johnjen

ruthieandjohn said:


> We here in the lab are about to discover that nitrogen, in addition to enhancing the performance of the tires it inflates, improves the sounds that pass from transducer to eardrum through it.  Starting small, we will introduce twin straws between ear and earphone to feed in nitrogen for passing the sound from the driver to the eardrum, with the nitrogen stored in a propellor-topped beanie cap.  When we have made our first million dollars there, we will expand to nitrogen-filled listening rooms (with oxygen masks for occupants) for enhanced speaker listening.


 
 After you are about to discover nitrogen and it's benefits, I can't wait until you discover SynthAir™®©…
  
 You have No Idea how much it will be of benefit… 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It is the polar opposite of Di-Hydrous Mon-Oxide… (aka Dihydrogen Oxide, Hydrogen Hydroxide, Hydronium Hydroxide, or simply Hydric acid.)
  
 JJ


----------



## knowhatimean

johnjen said:


> Just wait until you hear the air handling system, chugging along, in the background, down in the 10-30Hz range, just before the start of the very next movement…  :thumb
> 
> AND can identify it as such…
> 
> ...


 
 I'm glad Davies Hall doesn't "appear" to be producing this "artifact" or am I missing something from the MTT/Mahler series ?
  
 (Yeah I can definitely hear some "subway rumble" outside of Boston Symphony Hall in the RCA / Charles Munch recordings) ! or is that
 actually what you're speaking of that I've mis-labeled the sound as ?
  
 The MTT/Mahler series appear to be from live performances, whereas the Living Stereo recordings were not
  
 Now you've got me going bonkers tonight, doing "piecemeal" aural investigations at the moment. If you wouldn't mind could you point
 me toward some of the recordings you are detecting artifacts in.
  
 I'm curious as to if I'm hearing as far "into" my recording as I think I might be (I'm enjoying the process; but I'd like to know how close to accurate my perspective actually is)
  
 When you get to it of course !
 ~steve


----------



## johnjen

It is usually most noticeable when the main recording microphones are flying up near the prosenium.
  
 And when the degree of focus of the system is 'fine' enough to resolve the thrub-thrub-thrub noise of the air systems main rythmic harmonic frequency.
  
 As for which hall and which recording includes this source of sound I can't say with any degree of finality.
  
 If you'd like I can make a list of the few tracks I have where I do hear it…  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 JJ :thumb


----------



## knowhatimean

johnjen said:


> It is usually most noticeable when the main recording microphones are flying up near the prosenium.
> 
> And when the degree of focus of the system is 'fine' enough to resolve the thrub-thrub-thrub noise of the air systems main rythmic harmonic frequency.
> 
> ...


 
 That'll work, hopefully I may have a recording or two you've mentioned
  
 (At your convience of course; unless I'm being a PITA !!!)
  
 The thing that is shocking me continually is the low frequency capacity, which makes the sense of scale they now have, possible 
  
 They remind me of the old London/Decca Logo "Full Frequency Sound Spectrum / FFSS" (& thus ends my listening session for
 tonight as I went about two hrs longer than I'd planned)
  
 ~steve :


----------



## johnjen

knowhatimean said:


> That'll work, hopefully I may have a recording or two you've mentioned
> 
> (At your convience of course; unless I'm being a PITA !!!)
> 
> ...


 
 It'll take me a while to figure which recordings I heard it on…
 But it will be a 'challenge'
 And as Inspector Clueso always insisted, he would always accept ze challagnge…  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And that you're noticing the 'new' additional low freq information is a VERY good sign.
 That means your system is capable of delivering 'real-bass'©®™.
 IOW those 'choke points' are or have been minimized already.  :thumb
  
 Just wait until the 'real-bass'©®™starts to couple with ALL of the instruments…
  
 Talk about a "sense of scale" and the added sense of dynamic realism to the presentation, for the entire orchestra… 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 JJ


----------



## pearljam50000

We need a "Subway rumble" thread- HD800 vs PS1000 vs Abyss (;


knowhatimean said:


> I'm glad Davies Hall doesn't "appear" to be producing this "artifact" or am I missing something from the MTT/Mahler series ?
> 
> (Yeah I can definitely hear some "subway rumble" outside of Boston Symphony Hall in the RCA / Charles Munch recordings) ! or is that
> actually what you're speaking of that I've mis-labeled the sound as ?
> ...


----------



## rage3324

pearljam50000 said:


> We need a "Subway rumble" thread- HD800 vs PS1000 vs Abyss (;


 
 Agreed! My HD800 arrives tomorrow and my PS1000 (chrome) arrives sometime this week. I will be posting some kind of review. Small chance I might get the T1s in my position as well.


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks ^_^
Can't wait to read it.


----------



## knowhatimean

johnjen said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > That'll work, hopefully I may have a recording or two you've mentioned
> ...


 
 Not to appear overly "Braggadacious"(sp?) I have been experiencing that true Full Frequency coupling for quite some time, but
 don't mention this characteristic as I just "assume" that everyone else "ties" that into what "Scaleability" requires to be giving
 you a realistic sense of scale.(That is why I normally don't talk about bass but refer to lower frequency presentation as a "whole"
  
 I definitely can differentiate the difference from "wants to be bass" & the "real deal" bass' My Oliver Latry,organ / Philly Orchestra
 recording of the Saint ~ Saens "Organ" Symphony was what led me to comment on the "real deal" bass that was being produced
 from the Organ & Orchestra simultaneously creating a HUGE detailed soundstage. The "correctlly pitched" applause after each
 piece is scary good (Whereas if things aren't quite up to "snuff" the Orchestra will have a reduced presence in the proceeding of the music on this recording almost giving the impression of a poorly balanced Concerto with "Rice Krispies" applause !)
  
 Just Marvelous !!


----------



## johnjen

knowhatimean said:


> Not to appear overly "Braggadacious"(sp?) I have been experiencing that true Full Frequency coupling for quite some time, but
> don't mention this characteristic as I just "assume" that everyone else "ties" that into what "Scaleability" requires to be giving
> you a realistic sense of scale.(That is why I normally don't talk about bass but refer to lower frequency presentation as a "whole"
> 
> ...


 
 I figure a little "Braggadaciousness"™ never really hurts… 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Especially when its proffered up as a learning experience instead of a 'HEH!, Look At Me! neon type sign. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And that "Rice Krispies" applause…
 Another similar but perhaps even more subtle example is when a recording uses the sound of rain falling on the ground.
 Does it sound like actual rain or more like 'sorta' pink noise or any other hi-frequency 'effect'…
  
 JJ


----------



## bearFNF

All I could think about when you said "rice Krispy applause" was the sound of a tube going bad...crackling sound...


----------



## knowhatimean

bearfnf said:


> All I could think about when you said "rice Krispy applause" was the sound of a tube going bad...crackling sound...


 
 What I meant was that when you hear applause "live"it sounds a bit more like (I said a bit more) like "clock, clock clock...." not like "click, click, click".
  
 The next time you listen to an indoor recording that has applause in it listen to see if it sounds slighltly lighter pitched  "click sound"or slightly deeper  "ah" rather than "ii" sound.
  
 The deeper pitched sound means you're hearing some of the applause "bouncing off a room boundary". The crackly applause means the sound waves are being obliterated by each successive clap so it sounds like this is happening in an infinite room
  
 The deeper sound is there on the recording but something in your listening setup is preventing you from hearing it !.


----------



## knowhatimean

johnjen said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > Not to appear overly "Braggadacious"(sp?) I have been experiencing that true Full Frequency coupling for quite some time, but
> ...


 
 You're right once again (Hadn't considered "Look at Me" thing in my excitement !
  
 Don't you love Sound Sample instead of actual recorded sound !


----------



## johnjen

knowhatimean said:


> You're right once again (Hadn't considered "Look at Me" thing in my excitement !
> 
> Don't you love Sound Sample instead of actual recorded sound !


 
 In some venues and circumstances sampled instruments/acoustic effects (rain, thunder, earth sounds) can be the only way to add these acoustic 'textures', especially in live performances/recordings.
  
 And for some instruments like huge drums and very low freq. generating instruments, (while remaining within the digital domain), the sampled sources can be marvelously effective.  Some vinyl can handle the extreme bottom end (30Hz and down) but it is very rare due to the physical restraints of the medium.
  
 And for some groups like Belá Fleck and the Flectones, which is as much acoustic as not, the entire 'drum set' is all digitally sampled and played by a digital 'drumitar'.  I don't see any other way for that collection of instruments to be played, either live or in the recording studio.
  
 And these sampled drums etc can impart a 'full range' of bass that while possible in an all acoustic setting would be 'cumbersome' in the extreme.  Not just because of the sheer number of instruments but the musicianship would have to be beyond exemplary.
  
 Of course in an all acoustic venue some 'instruments' would be more 'difficult' (like the 1812 overture and real cannons etc.) and some of Stauss Jr.'s more 'explosive' works would be far less taxing on the air handling system to clear all of the smoke… 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 JJ  :thumb


----------



## knowhatimean

I love the different various sized bells that are used in the various Symphonie Fantastique recordings !
  
 I always love to anticipate what type of "Gong" will occur & what tempi will follow the successive rings .
  
 Hmmm... I have at least 3 or 4 different versions of this piece on my Hard Drive that I can listen to & compare this event, with tonight!
 As neutral as my HD800 is sounding this should be a good deal of fun. (There I go with the my,again !)
  
 They occur at begining of the 5th movement right ?(I hate skipping that much of a Symphony; I'll have to play my preference all the way
 through)


----------



## V-DiV

johnjen said:


> And for some groups like Belá Fleck and the Flectones, which is as much acoustic as not, the entire 'drum set' is all digitally sampled and played by a digital 'drumitar'.  I don't see any other way for that collection of instruments to be played, either live or in the recording studio.


 
 I didn't think much of the drumitar thing when I heard them play live.  It probably sounds better recorded, though I don't think either of my Flectone CD's has it on it.  I'll have to check.  I've usually found it to be the case with synthesizers, that they sound much more impressive on recordings than live.  I'm big on acoustic music live.


----------



## V-DiV

I lied.  Future Man is is on both CDs that I have.  I can't remember if I've listened to these with my HD800s since seeing them perform. 
  
 Listening to Outbound now.  Very nice on the 800s.  I never bothered to look at the liner notes before.  I always assumed the drums were real drums.  They are back in the mix (track 3) so I can't pick up any less-than-acoustic character.  But you can tell how the technique is not normal drum technique - I can envision Future Man tapping away with his fingers on the drumitar keys or pads.


----------



## johnjen

I use Media Center's rating system of 5 stars.
 4 stars is kick ass music but without 'impressive' bass.
  
 5 stars has it all, 4 stars kick ass music with kick ass bass…
  
 The Flecktones's albums have a much higher percentage of 5 star tracks than just about any other 'popular' group in my collection.  And it isn't just the extension of the low freqs, but the impact and 'power' his drumitar delivers, not to mention Wootens bass.
 And yeah delivering the amount and degree of these low end acoustic signatures, in a live (portable) venue is 'tricky'.  Mostly because of the PA system's limitations at the very bottom end.
  
 So I'd recommend their _*Flight of the Cosmic Hippo*_ album which has very impressive bass lines… 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 That is if you like banjo, bass, harmonica, keyboards and synth drums playing 'unique' music…
  
 JJ  :thumb


----------



## V-DiV

Yeah, the bass is really nice on this.  Really deep, full, and tight.  I quite like fusions.  I used to play all kinds of stuff myself.  I don't care for it when Victor does the slap bass thing.  I never liked bass played as a percussion instrument.  But aside from that, nice album, and very nice sound.  I'll have to check out the Cosmic Hippo.


----------



## johnjen

And now a 'project', for the 800 bass freqs amongst us…
 One that is easy to implement and try out.
  
 In DSP add a parametric equilizer with these settings…
 Freq = 18Hz
 Bandwidth (Q) = 0.18 
 Gain = 4dB
  
 And these settings can be adjusted to suit your particular 'tastes'  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So try fussing with the frequency settings from 15 to 18Hz
 The Q from 0.15 to 0.18
 The Gain from 3 to 4.5dB
 Any of these can be quite efficacious…  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 These settings add this bass boost in the frequency range from ≈ 2.5Hz to ≈ 100Hz with a very gentle slope.
 And while it isn't meant to 'compensate' for the 800's bass roll off, it does tend to 'augment' it quite handily.
  
 Have fun! 
 JJ


----------



## knowhatimean

johnjen said:


> And now a 'project', for the 800 bass freqs amongst us…
> One that is easy to implement and try out.
> 
> In DSP add a parametric equilizer with these settings
> ...


 
 John,
  
 Do you also apply these setting when you listen to Orchestral music (which I guess is the " house" I very rarely leave)
  
 If I can apply these DSP settings in JRMC I may just have to "sacrifice" a music file to see if I like this! Being a "chicken$*!^"
 though I'll probably try lower setting (using equalization will be the "greatest" stretch of anything I yet tried"
  
 (If you go back that far thing of the Boris Karloff "Frankenstein" movie where Frankenstein is sitting with the blind man who gives
 him a cigar & then accidentally burns him prompting him to say"Smoke BAD !" Ive always had the "Equalization Bad" mentality.
 Since adopting a 'Modders" mentality though I'm trying new things!
  
 Maybe I'll see the "Error of my Ways"(Maybe not but "Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained")


----------



## johnjen

knowhatimean said:


> John,
> 
> Do you also apply these setting when you listen to Orchestral music (which I guess is the " house" I very rarely leave)
> 
> ...


 
 Think of this as an experiment, one that can be adjusted, and/or tossed out if it doesn't work well for you.
  
 Running this DSP function doesn't change any music file, it only makes 'adjustments', to the music, which are only applied during playback, in 'real time'.  It's simply a matter of disabling this function to hear if the changes are of benefit, or not.  And nothing of permanence is affected (no files were harmed during the fussing with this experiment).  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 And you can perform this experiment with the DSP window open, and change the settings in near real time (there is a slight delay after any change is made).
  
 And yes this is an 'always on' setting for me, regardless of what music I'm listening to.
  
 The amount of bass boost is rather small, especially by the time you reach 'normal' bass frequencies (≈ 2-1dB ≥ ≈ 50Hz) and less as the freqs go higher.
 But the sub-audible freqs (≤ 20Hz) do get more of a boost (+3 to 4dB) until you reach ≈ 7.5Hz where it starts to fall off quite quickly as the freq continues to drop.
  
 Like I said, try it and see if this 'helps' or not.
  
 And the thing is, DSP is far more 'flexible' and accommodating than analog EQ, and at these frequencies with this small amount of 'adjustment' it will either be a good place to start and then play with the settings to 'dial it in' to suit…
 Or not, if this is something where the audible results simply don't meet your expectations.
  
 If you'd like to see how the 'settings' change the EQ limits and such, I can provide a link to an online 'calculator' to which you can plug in the 3 settings and see how they shift and change the amount of boost.
  
 JJ


----------



## knowhatimean

The more I thought about it , the more I liked the idea as like you said as the gain is being applied is in a non-intrusive area while adding a little bump to the fundamental transients
  
 I added to several files but haven't take them for a "spin" yet, so I'll see what my initial reaction is tomorrow !
  
 ~ steve


----------



## johnjen

Since the 800 has a published lower freq limit of 5Hz, and we are only adding ≈ 1 to 2dB of boost at the very low end we aren't pushing very hard at the limits of all the equipment.
  
 Although most music is bandwidth limited in the first place, still some of these resonances are still present in the original signal.  
 And this 'tweak' is mostly to determine if the extreme low end is…
 #1 even present in the recordings in the first place.
 #2 if the added boost of these very low resonances is 'better' or not. 
  
 And this dsp boost is very mild and can be changed dynamically in real time, as you play the music, or turn it off then back on, to hear what, if any, changes there are.
  
 This gives you a chance to determine if this is of any benefit to hearing into the music all the more,
 or not.
  
 All without even mussing your hair… :thumb
Well maybe just a little hair mussing when you don the 800's.
  
 So to speak.
  
 JJ


----------



## johnjen

dup
  
 JJ


----------



## James-uk

Just spotted this review on YouTube. This guy nails imo it and mirrors my thoughts exactly. 

http://youtu.be/UOYC8h00TXs


----------



## zilch0md

james-uk said:


> Just spotted this review on YouTube. This guy nails imo it and mirrors my thoughts exactly.
> 
> http://youtu.be/UOYC8h00TXs


 
  
 He left no stone un-turned and despite starting out with nothing but praise, he didn't hold back in accurately communicating the downsides - including repeated mention of the need for good recordings and upstream gear. 
  
 Reading the comments, this one takes the prize for "Did you watch the video?"
  


> *YouTuber Analyst* 4 months ago
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Off-topic - Check out his review of this Pioneer sub: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QBqe7tBEHk


----------



## knowhatimean

johnjen said:


> Since the 800 has a published lower freq limit of 5Hz, and we are only adding ≈ 1 to 2dB of boost at the very low end we aren't pushing very hard at the limits of all the equipment.
> 
> Although most music is bandwidth limited in the first place, still some of these resonances are still present in the original signal.
> And this 'tweak' is mostly to determine if the extreme low end is…
> ...


 
 I guess I was being a little lazy about it as I have to import the files into JRMC & then do any DSP processing as a "Library Tool"/
 function (which I've done to all my music files anyway) as my computer is not my music player. I use a Digital File Player instead.
  
 My music files sit on 1 & 2TB portable usb drives which I move in & out of my system as needed. I had Decware portable headphone
 amp that had a nicely implemented crossfeed switch on it, so when I saw that JRMC had this feature available as a DSP item I tried
 it & liked it very much. It really gives you nicer sense of "soundstaging" in the music & seriously decreases the onslaught of LFF.
  
 I still have 1 of drives connected to my PC from last night ,so I'll play around some more adding that low freq. "bump".Then at some
 point later I'll listen a bit.!
  
 I just love JRMC, but doing things "on the fly" or in "real time" isn't something I can do ! It's no "biggie" though as JRMC is working
 just fine as 1 of my favorite Audo tools (& these remain in the same place,not in some toolbox you thought was on a shelf, but is now in "Nevernever Land")
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ~steve


----------



## knowhatimean

zilch0md said:


> james-uk said:
> 
> 
> > Just spotted this review on YouTube. This guy nails imo it and mirrors my thoughts exactly.
> ...


 
 I'm begining to believe that at some point Sennheiser made some revisions to the HD800 given how my set initially sounded &
 continued to sound until "I" made revisions to them.
  
 They are now "completely" in line with the description given in the video but were not so as new. The serial # on mine is 21414.
  
 I'm curious if anyone else with a pair w/ a serial#  up to mine & below thinks their pair actually "sounded" like their current description


----------



## pearljam50000

It's so annoying the HD800 doesn't come with any adapter!
 My goal is to connect the HD800 to the Geek Out.
  
 is this one any good?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/CARDAS-HPI-A-Cable-Adapter-F-1-4-to-M-1-8-3-5mm-mini-Plug-fit-Sennheiser-Grado-/200980076331?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ecb58972b
  
 is it any better than something like this?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Pc-6-3mm-1-4-to-3-5mm-1-8-Audio-Headphone-Stereo-Gold-Plug-Plated-Adapter-/281601175624?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4190bcf048
  
 Or this one(i'm not sure because it's Grado)
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Grado-6-3mm-to-3-5mm-Mini-Adaptor-Headphone-Cable-/231302875088?pt=UK_MP3_Player_Accessories_Headphones_Earphones&hash=item35dab9c7d0
  
 or is there any other good adapter you can recommend? Thanks.


----------



## kapanak

pearljam50000 said:


> It's so annoying the HD800 doesn't come with any adapter!
> My goal is to connect the HD800 to the Geek Out.
> 
> is this one any good?
> ...


 

 The Grado 1/4 to 1/8 is the best by a mile, no comparison. Just don't buy from ebay. Buy from any dealer. Any Grado dealer will carry it. In Canada, they are $17, and I have a couple. Super hard core cable and great connectors, solid throughout. You definitely want to get a cable adapter instead of a solid adapter, to avoid strain on both the plug and the USB. I have also owned the Cardas one, not as good as the Grado and bulky and annoying.


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks!


----------



## skeptic

pearljam50000 said:


> Thanks!


 
  
 This is the adapter that ships with hd650's.  Good quality in my opinion and cheaper than DIY with any half decent plugs: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1063702-REG/sennheiser_561035_adapter_plug_for_hd.html


----------



## pearljam50000

skeptic said:


> This is the adapter that ships with hd650's.  Good quality in my opinion and cheaper than DIY with any half decent plugs: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1063702-REG/sennheiser_561035_adapter_plug_for_hd.html


 
 Is it better than the Grado adapter?


----------



## potkettleblack

Gentleman -
  
  
 Can anyone give their opinion of the lcd x's or 3's to compliment the 800's?
  
 I'm taking a 3 hour journey next week (on my birthday!)  to audition both of them - and it's just out of curiosity  
  
 I have some great, great music to take with me but I hear the lcd 3's excel in the rock. Anyone suggest certain albums before hand?
  
 Disclaimer: I have zero intentions of replacing or returning the 800's - I've averaged 20 hours a week, every week since owning them - I would never re-marry. Ever.


----------



## MickeyVee

Just some comments on taking a drive to audition based on experience..
  

Great cruising and rocking to the radio cranked or better yet, your DAP and favourite music.  Think otherwise. Your ears get accustomed to the noise level and you'll usually audition louder and hear less detail. Recommendation: Once you get there, first go for a coffee and let your ears settle.
Bring the music you intimately know.  You can listen for your favourite queues, dynamics, soundstage and detail.
If you can, bring your own gear.. DAC, AMP, source, etc. The more you can reproduce your gear/environment at home, the better the comparison.
Take your time! You're not going to 'get it' in a 15-30 minute audition
  
 What may be exiting in a short audition with unknown gear may sound, well, not so good long term when you get it home.
  
 OK, this is coming from a guy whose best choices (HD800 and McIntosh MHA100) have ignored all of the above (except the music part) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 BTW - each time I've auditioned the LCD-X and LCD 3 (probably 3 or 4 good auditions), I've pretty much always preferred the X and after doing a side by side with my HD800, I personally could not drop near $2K on another set of cans. You're better of spending the money on a better AMP then DAC. YMMV.
  
 On that note.. Enjoy the day!! 
  
 Quote:


potkettleblack said:


> Gentleman -


----------



## Zoom25

potkettleblack said:


> Gentleman -
> 
> 
> Can anyone give their opinion of the lcd x's or 3's to compliment the 800's?
> ...


 

 I've owned LCD-3 Classic. While the HD800 is more sensitive to amp changes, I still find LCD-3 to be harder in getting a good synergy with amps. My favourite was a Luxman speaker amp. The LCD-2 was way easier to find a nice matching amp. LCD-3 is a bit thicker sounding. Very coherent in it's frequency response. The sub bass on LCD-3 is Denon territory. 
  
 You'll enjoy the smoothness in the mids and vocals. Although when I use Audirvana Plus with HD800, the vocals start sounding a lot like LCD-3's. The presentation becomes more intimate on the HD800 that you'll find on the LCD-3. Both have really good vocals, but I find the HD800 to sound more lifelike. As far as bass goes, the LCD-3 hits like a vacuum/subwoofer whereas the HD800 kicks like a speaker. This is where I preferred LCD-2 over LCD-3 because the LCD-2 also kicks like a speaker. The treble is actually quite detailed on the LCD-3 but HD800 is my preference.
  
 Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon is always a good option to test stuff out with. I remember hearing that album on HE-500 and being blown away. It's been a good reference point for me.


----------



## knowhatimean

For something different I decided to take a listen to some "Lightfoot". Through the Hifiman HE-6 this album ( "Sunday Concert" ) is
 very nice sounding through the HD800 it's another whole experience.
  
 Gordon's "folk baritone" voice was at its warm "nuanced rich" best when this was recorded at Toronto's  Massey Hall. I don't remember my early vinyl edition sounding this incredible played from my VPI table through my Magneplanar 2.7 loudspeakers !
  
 I saw Gordon at the Academy of Music in Philly in the 70s & I can't really describe how close this sound is to those concerts. The HD800s are just the most incredibly nuanced transducers of any kind for reproducing Acoustic music.
  
 I may spend the rest of the night playing the "Canadian Railroad Trilogy" over & over ! (One of these days I'll have to get a 12string so I can play it correctly: It works on a 6string but the chord inversions are "richer" with a 12string.)


----------



## potkettleblack

mickeyvee said:


>


 
 Great stuff.
  
 My dad has actually persuaded to come with me. I bought him some sr80e's (his previous pair were a 10 pound pair of no-namers) for his birthday, and oh boy is he hooked.
  
 We'll be listening to black sabbath and pink floyd on the journey. 
  
 I know this is frowned upon around these parts but I use my macbook and 02 with my HD800's and I'm more than happy. I've only had the chance to listen a cambridge audio and the hdvd 800 and couldn't justify the upgrade - I actually preferred the neutral sound of my o2 to the cambridge audio rig.
  
 I'll be taking this kit with me.
  
 I have a feeling I will prefer the X's as I'm trying to top my hd700's for use with drum and bass, but I'm very intrigued about the 3's.
  
 I'll actually be met with a cup of coffee according to many reviews of the place I'm going. I've put a couple of pictures below. It's considered the most friendly and gear filled place in the UK. You name it, they have it. Pretty much. It's called hifi-lounge.
  

  

  
 http://www.highendheadphones.co.uk
  
 Thanks to you both for quick response.


----------



## MickeyVee

Wow.. nice shop! Worth the drive.  If there was something like that near me, I'd probably be divorced 
 Quote:


potkettleblack said:


> http://www.highendheadphones.co.uk


----------



## pearljam50000

Am I making a mistake getting the HD800 if my only DAC/amp is the Geek Out 720?
I decided to go for it but some posts that said it will sound like cra* made me unsure.


----------



## cocolinho

It won't help much but I owned Geek 1K with HD800, it was surprisingly "listenable" & quite enjoyable but my combo Dacmagic+Vali is doing better. Waiting for Valhalla 2 now.


----------



## whirlwind

zoom25 said:


> potkettleblack said:
> 
> 
> > Gentleman -
> ...


 
 Yeah, Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon is epic on the HD800......I will soon have a new OTL amp from Glenn and this will be one of my first albums that I listen too for sure.


----------



## BleaK

cocolinho said:


> It won't help much but I owned Geek 1K with HD800, it was surprisingly "listenable" & quite enjoyable but my combo* Dacmagic+Vali is doing better*. Waiting for Valhalla 2 now.


 
  
 Possible one of the best budget system for HD800. Was using it myself for a longer period when I was waiting for gear. I actually enjoy this combo more than other more expensive ones.


----------



## pearljam50000

I'm thinking of getting the vali later on, and using the Geek Out as DAC, but I'm worried about double amping, because there is no line out, do you think it will be close to the Dacmagic+ Vali ,SQ wise?
Thanks.


bleak said:


> Possible one of the best budget system for HD800. Was using it myself for a longer period when I was waiting for gear. I actually enjoy this combo more than other more expensive ones.


----------



## BleaK

pearljam50000 said:


> I'm thinking of getting the vali later on, and using the Geek Out as DAC, but I'm worried about double amping, because there is no line out, do you think it will be close to the Dacmagic+ Vali ,SQ wise?
> Thanks.


 

 My guess is that this will be a great budget set up, many use their GO as dac to portable amp. I think it will sound awsome with the Vali.


----------



## Acapella11

potkettleblack said:


> I'll actually be met with a cup of coffee according to many reviews of the place I'm going. I've put a couple of pictures below. It's considered the most friendly and gear filled place in the UK. You name it, they have it. Pretty much. It's called hifi-lounge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi potkettleblack, These guys are to be recommended. I was at the opening event of this show room and besides putting Heaven II in ears together in a little group, talked to the guys and they are very friendly and easy going. Hope you are enjoying your stay.


----------



## potkettleblack

acapella11 said:


> Hi potkettleblack, These guys are to be recommended. I was at the opening event of this show room and besides putting Heaven II in ears together in a little group, talked to the guys and they are very friendly and easy going. Hope you are enjoying your stay.


 

 Great to know thank you.


----------



## rage3324

Officially in the club and all I can say is that these headphones are stupid good. I can't even comment on the sound quality after listening to a full album because I still cannot get over the amazing soundstage. Will be interesting to compare when my PS1000s arrive.


----------



## kapanak

rage3324 said:


> Officially in the club and all I can say is that these headphones are stupid good. I can't even comment on the sound quality after listening to a full album because I still cannot get over the amazing soundstage. Will be interesting to compare when my PS1000s arrive.




Welcome! If your impressions are so positive from the start, wait until you have 100-300 hours of music listening through these. Mind blowing good. No matter the source, despite what many people say, these just sound darn good.


----------



## SuperU

Hey guys - I have been thinking about getting an HD800 to contrast with my LCD-X. 
  
 Thing is, I don't want to have to use 2 separate amps - one for each headphone. 
  
 I doubt my Asgard 2 will drive the 800 well, is that right?
  
 So, will the Ragnarok pair well with the HD-800. If so, that would solve my problem.


----------



## kapanak

superu said:


> Hey guys - I have been thinking about getting an HD800 to contrast with my LCD-X.
> 
> Thing is, I don't want to have to use 2 separate amps - one for each headphone.
> 
> ...


 

 Do you already have the Ragnarok? It pairs very well with the HD800, and so will the Asgard 2. Ragnarok has more ... powa! Seriously, it emphasizes all the things that make HD800 good and bad at the same time lol ... Still the best Solid State Amp with the HD800 I have heard.


----------



## SuperU

kapanak said:


> Do you already have the Ragnarok? It pairs very well with the HD800, and so will the Asgard 2. Ragnarok has more ... powa! Seriously, it emphasizes all the things that make HD800 good and bad at the same time lol ... Still the best Solid State Amp with the HD800 I have heard.


 
 Nope, not yet. Been trying to determine if I could use it to power both cans and do it with terrific results. 
  
 I had thought the Asgard 2 would not power the HD-800 very well. So if it will, that is very interesting.


----------



## kapanak

superu said:


> Nope, not yet. Been trying to determine if I could use it to power both cans and do it with terrific results.
> 
> I had thought the Asgard 2 would not power the HD-800 very well. So if it will, that is very interesting.


 

 Honestly, it really depends on what you are trying to get out of the HD800. One must always try a new headphones with music and system (DAC/Amp) familiar to self before determining any shortcomings, and then look for what amp or DAC can address those shortcomings, if any.
  
 Asgard 2 has far more than enough power to drive the HD800. Heck, my Audioengine D1 and Sony PHA-2 also have enough power to drive HD800 to ear bleeding volumes. It's a matter of whether there is "synergy" and dynamics between the source, amp, and headphones or not. And nobody can answer that for you except your brain and your ears.
  
 And remember, in the end of the day, the real difference in sound comes from the headphones. HD800 is a really nice headphone to slowly and step by step build a system around.


----------



## SuperU

kapanak said:


> Honestly, it really depends on what you are trying to get out of the HD800. One must always try a new headphones with music and system (DAC/Amp) familiar to self before determining any shortcomings, and then look for what amp or DAC can address those shortcomings, if any.
> 
> Asgard 2 has far more than enough power to drive the HD800. Heck, my Audioengine D1 and Sony PHA-2 also have enough power to drive HD800 to ear bleeding volumes. It's a matter of whether there is "synergy" and dynamics between the source, amp, and headphones or not. And nobody can answer that for you except your brain and your ears.


 
 Interesting. Unfortunately I am not anywhere where I can demo equipment prior to buying it. But so far so good. Just doing lots of study and have been very pleased with my purchases to date.
  
 What is the common opinion of the Bifrost Uber with the Asgard 2 regarding the HD-800? Do they pair well?


----------



## kapanak

superu said:


> Interesting. Unfortunately I am not anywhere where I can demo equipment prior to buying it. But so far so good. Just doing lots of study and have been very pleased with my purchases to date.
> 
> What is the common opinion of the Bifrost Uber with the Asgard 2 regarding the HD-800? Do they pair well?


 

 Before my Valhalla 2 and Concero HD, I had the same combo as you loaned for 2 weeks. They do pair well, certainly had enough power and the right dynamics. However, it was a bit bright for my tastes, and HD800 is already slightly leaning towards bright (think of it as opposite of LCD-3), so Asgard 2 was too bright for me, but only slightly. It certainly works though, and all the micro-details and soundstage HD800 is famous for is clearly evident.


----------



## SuperU

kapanak said:


> Before my Valhalla 2 and Concero HD, I had the same combo as you loaned for 2 weeks. They do pair well, certainly had enough power and the right dynamics. However, it was a bit bright for my tastes, and HD800 is already slightly leaning towards bright (think of it as opposite of LCD-3), so Asgard 2 was too bright for me, but only slightly. It certainly works though, and all the micro-details and soundstage HD800 is famous for is clearly evident.


 
 Great info to ponder. Not sure I will like the HD-800 sound but I hear over and over that driven well it is great. 
  
 Thanks.


----------



## MickeyVee

The HD800 driven will with synergistic equipment is not just great, but phenomenal.  Look back through the thread, there are many people who enjoy the Valhalla 2 with the HD800 and there are many comments that the Asgard is on the bright side.
  
 Quote:


superu said:


> Great info to ponder. Not sure I will like the HD-800 sound but I hear over and over that driven well it is great.
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## SuperU

mickeyvee said:


>


 
 Yeah, I have seen that. What I want to do is figure out an amp/dac that will work great with both the LCD-X and HD-800 if that is possible. And I'd prefer balanced.


----------



## kapanak

superu said:


> Yeah, I have seen that. What I want to do is figure out an amp/dac that will work great with both the LCD-X and HD-800 if that is possible. And I'd prefer balanced.


 

 Honestly, no matter what people tell you, balanced really barely makes a difference. The stack you have is almost complete. Get a Valhalla 2 and complete the Schiit stack.


----------



## MacedonianHero

kapanak said:


> Honestly, no matter what people tell you, balanced really barely makes a difference. The stack you have is almost complete. Get a Valhalla 2 and complete the Schiit stack.


 
 ...unless your amp's topography is a balanced amp...then you should go balanced to realize the benefits of 100% of your amp.


----------



## SuperU

kapanak said:


> Honestly, no matter what people tell you, balanced really barely makes a difference. The stack you have is almost complete. Get a Valhalla 2 and complete the Schiit stack.


 
 Is it a commonly held opinion hear that balanced amps don't do much more been single ended?
  
 I could probably spend up to about $2000 for an amp.  Of course, I'd prefer to spend less. LOL
  
 In a way, I have been hoping to be able to stay with SS amps  as I really don't think I would like messing with tubes. But, if I could find one incredible amp, tube or SS that would be incredible for both cans I'd be excited. 
  
 I want to be able to use powered speakers with the amp as well. So not a huge list of wants.


----------



## lukeap69

superu said:


> Is it a commonly held opinion hear that balanced amps don't do much more been single ended?
> 
> I could probably spend up to about $2000 for an amp.  Of course, I'd prefer to spend less. LOL
> 
> ...




Looks like you want a Ragnarok.


----------



## TonyNewman

mickeyvee said:


> The HD800 driven will with synergistic equipment is not just great, but phenomenal....


 
  
 ++1. IMHO it beats the LCD-X/3C/3F. The only headphone I have heard that tops a well matched, modded HD800 given plenty of juice is a modded HE6 also given plenty of juice.
  
 And by giving the HD800 plenty of juice, I am talking something like the SS Simaudio 430HA (8W) or an 845 based SET speaker amp via the HiFiMan Adapter box (20W). These two beasties drive my HD800 better than anything else I have tried. They lift the HD800 into a another realm.
  
 Second place goes to my WA5 via the HiFiMan Adapter box (8W). Still very good and significantly better dynamics than the HPH output option.
  
 I am toying with the idea of wiring up the HiFiMan adapter box to the 'B' set of speaker terminals of my power amp to see what 150W can do for the HD800 and HE6. Might have to give it a try


----------



## koiloco

rage3324 said:


> Officially in the club and all I can say is that these headphones are stupid good. I can't even comment on the sound quality after listening to a full album because I still cannot get over the amazing soundstage. *Will be interesting to compare when my PS1000s arrive. *


 
 Let us know the outcome but I have a feeling that you might be a little disappointed with PS1000s in relation to HD800.  I like the sound signature of PS1000 for certain music genres but, IMO, the 2 are not on the same technicality level.  YMMV.


----------



## SuperU

lukeap69 said:


> Looks like you want a Ragnarok.


 
 Well that's what I've been thinking. Price wise, feature wise, it fits the bill. Just don't know if sound wise it will as well.
  
  


tonynewman said:


> ++1. IMHO it beats the LCD-X/3C/3F. The only headphone I have heard that tops a well matched, modded HD800 given plenty of juice is a modded HE6 also given plenty of juice.
> 
> And by giving the HD800 plenty of juice, I am talking something like the SS Simaudio 430HA (8W) or an 845 based SET speaker amp via the HiFiMan Adapter box (20W). These two beasties drive my HD800 better than anything else I have tried. They lift the HD800 into a another realm.
> 
> ...


 
 That looks like a nice amp. At $3500 it's probably a big more than I want to spend. But it could be doable. Would it be better than the Ragnarok?


----------



## TonyNewman

superu said:


> ...
> That looks like a nice amp. At $3500 it's probably a big more than I want to spend. But it could be doable. Would it be better than the Ragnarok?


 
  
 I have never seen or heard the Ragnarok, so can't comment on the relative performance.
  
 The 430HA kills my Auralic Taurus and WA5, if that is any help. This is the amp only, fed from a Vega DAC. I have no need for the add-on DAC for the 430HA.


----------



## guido

superu said:


> Yeah, I have seen that. What I want to do is figure out an amp/dac that will work great with both the LCD-X and HD-800 if that is possible. And I'd prefer balanced.


 

 The B.M.C. Puredac will do it....check out some reviews.


----------



## guido

superu said:


> Is it a commonly held opinion hear that balanced amps don't do much more been single ended?
> 
> I could probably spend up to about $2000 for an amp.  Of course, I'd prefer to spend less. LOL
> 
> ...


 

 And I use the Puredac with my powered Adam Artist 5 speakers and sub...superb!


----------



## maibuN

How much room for improvement is given with e ifi idsd micro compared to the amps you mentioned above (neo 430 HA, BMC Ultradac, Ragnarok) ? Would it be worth the extra money? You could get 1 or 2 complementary headphones or even active speakers for the price of these amps, is it really worth it or just a subtile improvement if you don't know how to spend your money? I also would have to give up the x-bass feature of the ifi which i like very much with the hd800 and use a software eq instead, which is anything but ideal I think. So would perhaps the advantages of a high-end amp/dac over the ifi get exhausted by using a software eq instead of the completely analogue x-bass feature?


----------



## oculus

Improvements are generally small.   The change/improvement you will get with changing headphones/speakers is probably 10x the amount you will get with changing dacs/amps.  Thats my opinion having fannyed around changing these.


----------



## pearljam50000

You just made me feel alot better about my Geek Out lol


oculus said:


> Improvements are generally small.   The change/improvement you will get with changing headphones/speakers is probably 10x the amount you will get with changing dacs/amps.  Thats my opinion having fannyed around changing these.


----------



## rage3324

*HD800 Pre-Broken in Review*
  
*Setup:*
*Source:* Macbook Air
*File Type:* FLAC and ALAC (16 bit and 24 bit)
*DAC:* Woo Audio WA7
*Amp:* Woo Audio WA7 (high impedance)
*Albums listen to: *
 The Beatles - Magical Mystery Tour
 Queens of the Stone Age - Songs for the Deaf (24-bit Vinyl)
 Nine Inch Nails - The Downward Spiral 
 Fleetwood Mac - Greatest Hits
 Miles Davis - Miles Davis
  
 I don't plan on referencing many tracks in my review. Instead, I plan on referencing them in my head-to-head comparison with the PS1000.
  
*Build Quality - 10/10*
 I don't think much needs to be said here so I will just sum it up by saying the build quality is top notch. I was never a fan of the HD800 look, mostly from pictures online, but man they look a lot better in person. What I thought was ugly based on online pictures is actually beautiful in real life. Part of that is feeling the excellent build quality in your hand.
  
*Comfort - 9.5/10*
 These cans are very comfortable. The padding under the headband is superb, yet it doesn't completely disappear. The ear pads are also very comfortable. Not a lot to complain about, but I will say they are not the most comfortable headphones in my collection. That would go the AD700. Light weight, great padding.. basically disappear on my head. Aside from the disappearing factor, the HD800 are as comfortable as it gets.
  
*Sound Quality - 10/10*
 I will admit that I really had no idea what to expect when I put these headphones on my head. Without a doubt, I felt luxury on my head like I just sat down in a jaguar for the first time. However, I was still worried about the sound signature, especially since I am a loyal Grado fanboy. So, were they going to sound dark, slow, and boring or were they just going to sound flat, unnatural, and just okay to me? Honestly, I fully prepared myself for the worst. Well, 10 seconds into Magical Mystery tour and I was floored. I was stunned. I did not know what was going on. Drums to the left, crisp vocals above my head and the strumming of a bass to the upper right, trumpets and more vocals gently caressing my right ear. Everything is sounding crystal clear and natural. I'm still floored because i can hardly take in the sound quality. I am still trying to wrap my head around the soundstage. It is just perfect. 
  
*Bass - 9.25/10*
 Deep, detailed and fast. Not a lot of impact, but just enough for me. Enough to push some air around that your ears will feel. Nine Inch Nails thrives on deep and extensive bass and the HD800 brings out every little detail. Not only that, it presents the bass as if it is 3D. Closer is a perfectly example of this. You have your bass beat moving the song along positioned behind you and then you have another frequency of bass line alternating from left to right. And not to be lost is a very faint bass line also playing in the distance (position further behind you) that is lost on my RS1i. It is incredible. The HD800s bass presentation is uncanny. It is presented in a way that I did not think was possible. I think my 9.25 is a little low. But I know the bass is going to get better and better so I will leave room to improve the score over time.

*Mids - 10/10*
 Pure bliss. Guitars sing. Guitars crunch. Vocals sooth your ears. Vocals sound as real as it gets. Seriously. In pains me to says this, but the HD800 might have the best mids I have ever heard. In fact, I just looked over at my RS1i and apologized. Yes the RS1i rips, has amazing decay and just sounds so natural, but man the HD800 is so soothing, so real, and every detail is there. But what won me over is Gypsy by Fleetwood Mac. Hearing every single detail in Stevie Nick's voice is beautiful. The vocal presentation is incredible. I feel like she is singing to me, a few rows back, and no one else is in the arena but me. To compare, with the RS1i, I feel as if I am Stevie Nicks singing to a huge crowd. Oh, and the drums. How could I forget. Lets just say the HD800 puts out the best drum sound quality I have ever heard. Perfectly balanced and perfectly presented. Fleetwood Mac has a lot of basic drum beats with little complicated tweaks that you just do not hear with other headphones. But the HD800 (and the RS1i as well) bring those little drum hits, beats, and fills out like magic. I don't know what the HD800 does better.. drums or vocals. But what matters is that they do them better than any other headphone.

*Treble - 9.75/10*
 Clarity, clarity, clarity and more clarity. The highs are just crystal clear and so detailed. I really can't say more than that they are just fantastic. For me, I have no fatigue at all. I can crank the volume up to about half-way on my WA7 without any issues, distortion or fatigue. 
  
*Soundstage - 10/10*
 The holy grail. Do I need to say more? Okay, I will. Holy FRAK! Okay that's it. You get the point. Okay okay, I will actually write a real review of the sound stage. The HD800's soundstage presentation is stupid good. It is so SOOO good I find myself turning my head wondering where that sound just came from. Is someone behind me? Am I about to die!? Nope, it is just music. Don't listen to these headphones in the dark without a spotter. 
  
*Conclusion - 9.9/10*
 For me, the HD800 brings realism and clarity while the RS1i brings naturalism and punch. The RS1i is warm, smooth and sweet and the HD800 is cool, relaxed, and polite, but is not afraid to slap you in the face when it needs to. The soundstage is wonderfully presented, 3D, and natural. My girlfriend, who never has ANY interest in my headphones (except for the cool looking tube amps), wanted to see what the fuss was all about. She put them on, loaded up Gypsy by Fleetwood Mac, and did not say a single word for 4 minutes and 24 seconds. Finally she says "Is this real life? I don't even like Fleetwood Mac and this is the best music I have ever heard. Why would you ever listen to music with anything other than these headphones?" Simply put, the HD800 is the best headphone I have ever heard (and she agrees).
  
 I look forward to reporting back in a week with my updated HD800 impressions and a PS1000 comparison.


----------



## icebear

rage3324 said:


> *HD800 Pre-Broken in Review*...
> 
> ...My girlfriend, who never has ANY interest in my headphones (except for the cool looking tube amps), wanted to see what the fuss was all about. She put them on, loaded up Gypsy by Fleetwood Mac, and did not say a single word for 4 minutes and 24 seconds. Finally she says "Is this real life? I don't even like Fleetwood Mac and this is the best music I have ever heard. Why would you ever listen to music with anything other than these headphones?" ...


 
 Congrats to your HD800, don't worry it will still get a little better over the next coming weeks.
 And of course also congrats to your girl friend. If she gives such an "unsolicited comment" most likely without knowing all the fuss and the price (?) then it really speaks for the SQ of the HD800 and you are not completely over the top with your enthusiastic early review. Enjoy


----------



## Mach3

Wait till you get a TOTL DAC and amp combined with the Anax mod.


----------



## TonyNewman

mach3 said:


> Wait till you get a TOTL DAC and amp combined with the Anax mod.


 
  
 The HD800 scales with high end gear in a way that I never expected.
  
 Best I have ever heard mine is from this:
  

  
 And this:
  

  
 Either will take the HD800 a long, long way


----------



## analog'd

rage3324 said:


> *HD800 Pre-Broken in Review*
> *Mids - 10/10*
> Pure bliss. Guitars sing. Guitars crunch. Vocals sooth your ears. Vocals sound as real as it gets. Seriously. In pains me to says this, but the HD800 might have the best mids I have ever heard. In fact, I just looked over at my RS1i and apologized. Yes the RS1i rips, has amazing decay and just sounds so natural, but man the HD800 is so soothing, so real, and every detail is there. But what won me over is Gypsy by Fleetwood Mac. Hearing every single detail in Stevie Nick's voice is beautiful. The vocal presentation is incredible. I feel like she is singing to me, a few rows back, and no one else is in the arena but me. To compare, with the RS1i, I feel as if I am Stevie Nicks singing to a huge crowd. Oh, and the drums. How could I forget. Lets just say the HD800 puts out the best drum sound quality I have ever heard. Perfectly balanced and perfectly presented. Fleetwood Mac has a lot of basic drum beats with little complicated tweaks that you just do not hear with other headphones. But the HD800 (and the RS1i as well) bring those little drum hits, beats, and fills out like magic. I don't know what the HD800 does better.. drums or vocals. But what matters is that they do them better than any other headphone.


 
 yup, the HD800 is a lot more refined than the good ole RS1i. but it's wonderful to have a can that "rips" as you say along with the senns. There are times when it's just fun to rock out through a good grado (or audeze), but there are times when the super revelation of the hd800 of what is lacking or over-pronounced in certain recordings begs the forgiveness of these other cans. if I had to live with just the hd800 I could I suppose, but... I moved from rs1i's after 20 years with rs1's as my favorite rock n roll headphone to lcd-3's as they are more on the level of refinement as the hd800, but I am sorely missing the grado house sound at times. eventually i'll add a grado back in the lineup. congrats on your new cans and to your girlfriend for discovering what you've probably been babbling about for such a long time. two equally important events!


----------



## potkettleblack

I implore everyone on this thread to listen to the Amber Rubarth (binaural) on hdtracks.com.24/96 not 24/192.

I don't think a single album showcases the 800's better than this.

I will bump this comment until 1.the cows come home. And 2. Until everyone has listened to it.

if you think your girlfriend liked gypsy by Fleetwood mac - she's gonna think the 800's are the second coming when she hears this - and you will too!


----------



## potkettleblack

Don't preview - download!


----------



## pearljam50000

Why 24/96 and not 24/192?
  
 Quote:


potkettleblack said:


> I implore everyone on this thread to listen to the Amber Rubarth (binaural) on hdtracks.com.24/96 not 24/192.
> 
> I don't think a single album showcases the 800's better than this.
> 
> ...


----------



## whirlwind

rage3324 said:


> *HD800 Pre-Broken in Review*
> 
> *Setup:*
> *Source:* Macbook Air
> ...


 
 Well said.....I bought the wholes Beatles discography box set...they beatles have never sounded better  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I felt pretty much like you , when i got mine....heck I even sold my RS1i ....coz I was never reching for them.
  
 once I get my new amp and some tubes...I will be adding the RS1i....I think i can live with these two cans forever  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I love the fact that you can actually crank the sound on the Senn HD800  also....with the RS1i...I always listen at low volume...that is where it shines, in my eyes.


----------



## potkettleblack

I downloaded both and far quite a big difference. Preferring the the 96 version. It sounded less strained and a lot smoother.
I also read into the audible differences between the two and found an interesting article written by a danish sound engineer making the argument that 24/96 was optical after doing numerous comparisons.
I found it after trying to research the need for 352 as hdtracks seem to be pushing that with their latest albums.
again, I have both versions and greatly preferred the 96 version.
this isn't hyperbole - there is a clear difference once downloaded and not streamed.


----------



## potkettleblack

potkettleblack said:


> I downloaded both and far quite a big difference. Preferring the the 96 version. It sounded less strained and a lot smoother.
> I also read into the audible differences between the two and found an interesting article written by a danish sound engineer making the argument that 24/96 was optical after doing numerous comparisons.
> I found it after trying to research the need for 352 as hdtracks seem to be pushing that with their latest albums.
> again, I have both versions and greatly preferred the 96 version.
> this isn't hyperbole - there is a clear difference once downloaded and not streamed.


Excuse typos I'm walking and typing


----------



## rage3324

whirlwind said:


> once I get my new amp and some tubes...I will be adding the RS1i....I think i can live with these two cans forever
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 +1


----------



## ruthieandjohn

potkettleblack said:


> I implore everyone on this thread to listen to the Amber Rubarth (binaural) on hdtracks.com.24/96 not 24/192.
> 
> I don't think a single album showcases the 800's better than this.
> 
> ...




...and if you order just $50 worth (for example, this and two others), HDTracks is running a 20% off special through 2/22/15. Code HDVIP50.


----------



## kapanak

I'll be the Devil's advocate and say HDTracks if ripping people off by charging separately for each bitrate of the same album. I'll avoid using them unless I truly can't find the album elsewhere.


----------



## potkettleblack

ruthieandjohn said:


> ...and if you order just $50 worth (for example, this and two others), HDTracks is running a 20% off special through 2/22/15. Code HDVIP50.


Great thank you


----------



## potkettleblack

kapanak said:


> I'll be the Devil's advocate and say HDTracks if ripping people off by charging separately for each bitrate of the same album. I'll avoid using them unless I truly can't find the album elsewhere.


Trust me I'm with you.
I have three albums and none I could get at that quality on torrents or iTunes


----------



## rage3324

For a dac to pair with my WA7 (and I'm sure I will eventually grab an upgraded amp dedicated to my HD800, but not for at least 6 months), would you guys go with Bifrost, Dacmini (own it, unopened), Meier Corda Stagedac, or just stick with the WA7 given the choices? These are all around $400 used. Or is there something else I should consider that is cheaper or slightly more?


----------



## Zoom25

tonynewman said:


>


 
  
 430HA. WANT!!!!!!


----------



## TonyNewman

zoom25 said:


> 430HA. WANT!!!!!!


 
  
 It is one my better audio purchasing decisions. Superb amp. Pairs wonderfully with the HD800 and HE6. Also does a great job as a preamp.


----------



## Zoom25

Yeah been reading on it. Will consider it in the future for sure. I love it's looks as well. I'm used to Marantz gear, so prefer this look in gear.


----------



## drez

I think [hi res] changes quite a bit depending on what dac and transport you are using.


----------



## rage3324

$1199 at Buysonic if anyone is looking 
  
 https://www.buysonic.com/products/sennheiser-hd-800/


----------



## spurxiii

rage3324 said:


> $1199 at Buysonic if anyone is looking
> 
> https://www.buysonic.com/products/sennheiser-hd-800/


 
 Wow I got my HD800 in October last year for $1029AUD which equates to about $800USD. Wasn't then but seems like a bargain now since the tanking of the AUD


----------



## rage3324

spurxiii said:


> Wow I got my HD800 in October last year for $1029AUD which equates to about $800USD. Wasn't then but seems like a bargain now since the tanking of the AUD


 
 I hear ya. $1199 is a pretty good deal considering but I suspect this will hit $999 relatively soon


----------



## knowhatimean

Due to some problems that have recently developed with my Burson Soloist headphone amp & not caring for the sound I was getting from a Fosgate Signature I'd retubed (Worked great for Jazz but dynamically a "mixed bag" for Orchestral music) I decided to see if a Beyerdynamic A1 hp amp would work with my "modded" HD800.... It's not bad!!
  
 I don't know if this amp would really have even been "listenable" w/ a stock HD800 as the stock have a lot of resonance in them that SS amps can't wait to tell you "is there". The A1 is / was a bit overrated by everyone but your "experienced Head-Fier", but this is the first time I've been able to see some "value" to it. My HD800 has certainly been giving me an education as to the differences between the sound characteristics of Tubed & SS amp design now that they're much more neutral sounding.
  
 If a good quality SS amp still sounds "cold & non involving" w/ the HD800 , the 800 "as is" is a bit to blame for that (& it really isn't even necessary to run them Balanced or with tubes; these are the easier options,just not the only options)
  
 So that I'm not labeled as a "Quack !!" (Though that really is of little consequence to me as I'm seriously thrilled w/ my HD800). Let me preface everything I've said with "With what I listen to !!!" (I do wish that Moon Neo 430h was in my price range !)
  
 YMMV or rather YMPDVBIG (Your Mileage Probably Does Vary But I'm Good)
 ~ steve


----------



## kapanak

Okay, for the Canadians here feeling ripped off by the recent currency nose dive, my second favourite local retailer (that sells across Canada) is having a weekly deal for $1199. That's like ... US$999. Anybody in Washington can probably drive up and buy one too lol and take advantage of the exchange rate. http://www.hifiheadphones.ca/deal-of-the-week/
  
 I bought my new pair in December from Headphone Bar for the same price of $1199. So I feel obligated to let others, both locally and otherwise know 
  
 Good luck!


----------



## Sennheiser

Did anyone spot this yesterday? Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak was a part of the Oscars madness. In Cadillac's commercial during the broadcast, the Woz himself can be seen lounging in his study, listening to his HD 800.. check out the video below:


----------



## analog'd

sennheiser said:


> Did anyone spot this yesterday? Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak was a part of the Oscars madness. In Cadillac's commercial during the broadcast, the Woz himself can be seen lounging in his study, listening to his HD 800.. check out the video below:





 sure did notice it. it was shown a number of times. quite the advertising campaign by Cadillac.


----------



## olor1n

paradoxper said:


> The M51 made the HD800 boring. So sweeping generalizations don't help anyone.


 

 Boring? Nah...
  
 You must've had a gremlin in your system that didn't play nice with the M51. Or a dud unit.. or NAD really did **** up the SQ with firmware revisions beyond 1.39. I just can't fathom how anyone could describe the M51 as boring.
  
 I got a good laugh from your absurd post. Thanks for that.


----------



## paradoxper

olor1n said:


> Boring? Nah...
> 
> You must've had a gremlin in your system that didn't play nice with the M51. Or a dud unit.. or NAD really did **** up the SQ with firmware revisions beyond 1.39. I just can't fathom how anyone could describe the M51 as boring.
> 
> I got a good laugh from your absurd post. Thanks for that.


 
 Yes. Boring. 
  
 Wrong. At one time I had your exact system. Don't agree, fine. Don't be a dick about it.


----------



## zilch0md

olor1n said:


> Boring? Nah...
> 
> You must've had a gremlin in your system that didn't play nice with the M51. Or a dud unit.. or NAD really did **** up the SQ with firmware revisions beyond 1.39. I just can't fathom how anyone could describe the M51 as boring.
> 
> I got a good laugh from your absurd post. Thanks for that.


 
  
 I wouldn't describe any subjective opinion as "absurd."


----------



## vc1187

olor1n said:


> Boring? Nah...
> 
> You must've had a gremlin in your system that didn't play nice with the M51. Or a dud unit.. or NAD really did **** up the SQ with firmware revisions beyond 1.39. I just can't fathom how anyone could describe the M51 as boring.
> 
> I got a good laugh from your absurd post. Thanks for that.


 
 As I've mentioned in the M51 impressions thread, I felt like the HD800 sounded like straight up poo with the NAD M51 set at a volume from anywhere between 0-20 dB paired with the ZD.
  
 Once I max out the volume on the ZD and adjust the M51 to a reasonable volume level (~ -28 to -30 dB) the HD800 sings like no other.  While this isn't a thread to discuss the M51, I feel like its impressions paired with the HD800 are a hit or miss based on configuration and personal tastes.


----------



## knowhatimean

zilch0md said:


> olor1n said:
> 
> 
> > Boring? Nah...
> ...


 
 Exactly...
  
 You've heard of "Political Incorrectness" well I think we should coin a new phrase for the Internet "Subjectivity Incorrectness" 
  
  
 (The content of what was said may very well be "absurd", but that is "private" determination for each person to decide for themselves. Being selective in "How"
 you say something is at least as important as "What" you've said. We tend to be a bit less social than we could be when we're on the Web)


----------



## paradoxper

vc1187 said:


> As I've mentioned in the M51 impressions thread, I felt like the HD800 sounded like straight up poo with the NAD M51 set at a volume from anywhere between 0-20 dB paired with the ZD.
> 
> Once I max out the volume on the ZD and adjust the M51 to a reasonable volume level (~ -28 to -30 dB) the HD800 sings like no other.  While this isn't a thread to discuss the M51, I feel like its impressions paired with the HD800 are a hit or miss based on configuration and personal tastes.


 
 I'm not a big fan of the HD800. And I just didn't think the M51 was a good fit at all. Didn't matter what FW or settings I tried to optimize it for, it didn't work out for me. Just because my experience may be contrary to others doesn't mean they should try to discredit my findings.
 Ya'll enjoy the M51, that's great.
  
 I've moved on to bigger and better things, and in the end, I'm happy - that's all that matters.


----------



## rage3324

How long does the frequency response graph usually take to receive?


----------



## kapanak

rage3324 said:


> How long does the frequency response graph usually take to receive?


 

 Did you register through the official site? If so, and you requested it, it will take 7-14 days tops. I got mine in six days.


----------



## rage3324

Yup, I did. Thanks!


----------



## whirlwind

rage3324 said:


> How long does the frequency response graph usually take to receive?


 
 They sent me mine in an e-mail ...took about a week.


----------



## Mach3

whirlwind said:


> They sent me mine in an e-mail ...took about a week.


 
 That's strange, I did mine and I was email the graph within a few minutes.


----------



## RRod

mach3 said:


> That's strange, I did mine and I was email the graph within a few minutes.


 
  
 My wait was about a week as well. You must be special


----------



## bearFNF

I got a hard copy mailed to me in about two weeks.  so basically this all means YMMV...go figure...


----------



## kapanak

I wish they still did hard copy. But nope, all email now unfortunately. It's nice and crisp for printing though


----------



## Mach3

rrod said:


> My wait was about a week as well. You must be special


 
 Yeah I am special, they knew I waited patiently for a few minutes. Good things comes to those who wait hehe


----------



## nephilim32

kapanak said:


> People in this thread have stated such things too. The WA7, first of all, has a subpar DAC built-in. Secondly, by the time you upgrade it with the upgrade tubes and get the tube power supply, you're hitting $1500 easily. At that price point, many better amps can be found for the HD800. Heck, Schiit Ragnarok is right there in that price range. Thirdly, the WA7 doesn't let HD800 show it's best quantities, especially micro detail. It makes the sound warm and syrupy. Some people like that. Some don't.
> 
> As a amp only, and a starting option, it's a good amp. I'd take a Valhalla 2 at 1/3 the cost for better SQ and value though.




And if you want dead accurate neutral sound with the tightest bass imaginable you opt for the Burson Soloist. When it comes to letting the pure characteristics of rich dynamics out of the HD 800 down to microscopic detail I have yet to hear a better amp that does so, than the soloist. Those Aussies sure can build a killer class A amp!!


----------



## NotaLefty

Has anyone here been able to listen to both the HD800 and Stax SR-007? I'm really enjoying my current setup but at the same time really want to hear an electrostatic headphone of that caliber. I have only ever heard electrostatic speakers.


----------



## Dragonsan

Finally bit the bullet and got these, so I guess I'll be joining this thread now, too.
  
 This will be my first high-end headphone purchase. Can't wait!


----------



## nephilim32

Oh man





notalefty said:


> Has anyone here been able to listen to both the HD800 and Stax SR-007? I'm really enjoying my current setup but at the same time really want to hear an electrostatic headphone of that caliber. I have only ever heard electrostatic speakers.


.

Oh man. You are not alone here. I'd love to hear the differences between the stax 009 against the 800. I have a hard time imagining any headphone beating the 800's for overall dynamics. Hell. To my ears the 800's even beat the LCD 3's in this category.


----------



## brokenthumb

nephilim32 said:


> And if you want dead accurate neutral sound with the tightest bass imaginable you opt for the Burson Soloist. When it comes to letting the pure characteristics of rich dynamics out of the HD 800 down to microscopic detail I have yet to hear a better amp that does so, than the soloist. Those Aussies sure can build a killer class A amp!!


 
  
 I really like the Soloist with the HD800, I also prefer the LCD-2 on the Soloist over the Mjolnir.  Both matched to 78 dB the Soloist sounds more dynamic to me which goes against what I've always read about the Mjolnir vs Soloist.
  
 I've also got a Valhalla 2 coming in tomorrow to try out with the HD800.


----------



## TonyNewman

nephilim32 said:


> Oh man
> .
> 
> ... I have a hard time imagining any headphone beating the 800's for overall dynamics. Hell. To my ears the 800's even beat the LCD 3's in this category.


 
  
 To my ears, a well driven + modded HD800 beats LCD-X/3C/3F - that's just my preference. I am not a big fan of the Audeze house sound.
  
 The only headphone I have heard that beats it is a well driven + modded HE6. That is the best HeadFi experience I have had so far.
  
 (I have not heard any electrostatics, or the HE1000 or Abyss).


----------



## lukeap69

rrod said:


> My wait was about a week as well. You must be special




I've got mine within hours...


----------



## drez

nephilim32 said:


> And if you want dead accurate neutral sound with the tightest bass imaginable you opt for the Burson Soloist. When it comes to letting the pure characteristics of rich dynamics out of the HD 800 down to microscopic detail I have yet to hear a better amp that does so, than the soloist. Those Aussies sure can build a killer class A amp!!


 
  
 I recall brief impression was that imaging was really nice with that amp, short signal path and single ended probably helps.  I might have to look into trying one out as the price is much lower than other amplifiers I am looking at.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

notalefty said:


> Has anyone here been able to listen to both the HD800 and Stax SR-007? I'm really enjoying my current setup but at the same time really want to hear an electrostatic headphone of that caliber. I have only ever heard electrostatic speakers.


 
  
  


nephilim32 said:


> Oh man
> .
> 
> Oh man. You are not alone here. I'd love to hear the differences between the stax 009 against the 800. I have a hard time imagining any headphone beating the 800's for overall dynamics. Hell. To my ears the 800's even beat the LCD 3's in this category.


 

 Last May, I went through a year's worth of the thread "How We Rank The Headphones That We Own," compiling statistics on how folks, well, ranked the headphones that they owned.  Here is the thread, for reference:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/721406/how-we-rank-our-own-headphones-statistics-of-2-000-owner-rankings-compiled#post_10597847
  
 In addition to the big table of rankings of "commonly-owned" headphones (ones that at least 10 of the 2,000 rankings included), I have a spreadsheet tool that describes how any headphone that was ranked, was ranked.
  
 Here are the results of the STAX SR-009, which shows that for the people who ranked it, they ALWAYS ranked it first, including above the HD 800 (each column is one person's set of headphones, in the order that he ranked them).
  
 (click table to make legible)

  
 For the SR-007, one person ranked it above the HD 800 and one ranked it below:
  

  
 For the MkI and MkII variants, we have this ranking:
  

  
 So the Stax SR-009 is ALWAYS preferred to the HD800, and the SR-007 is 50-50, and the SR-007 Mk1 is above, while the SR-007 MkII is below the HD 800, at least by those reporting rankings owning them all.


----------



## NotaLefty

ruthieandjohn said:


> Last May, I went through a year's worth of the thread "How We Rank The Headphones That We Own," compiling statistics on how folks, well, ranked the headphones that they owned.  Here is the thread, for reference:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/721406/how-we-rank-our-own-headphones-statistics-of-2-000-owner-rankings-compiled#post_10597847
> 
> In addition to the big table of rankings of "commonly-owned" headphones (ones that at least 10 of the 2,000 rankings included), I have a spreadsheet tool that describes how any headphone that was ranked, was ranked.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply. I was actually just looking through that thread a few minutes ago. What I'm finding is that there is a distinct lack of dissusion and reviews about the SR-007, especially in comparison to the HD800. What this means is that I'm getting a very small sample size. A few reviews rave about the performance increase over the HD800 whereas others state just the opposite. I would love to hear an electrostatic headphone (particularly the 007) but there is just no way for me to do so unless I sell my current setup and buy Stax. What a tough game this is.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

notalefty said:


> Thanks for the reply. I was actually just looking through that thread a few minutes ago. What I'm finding is that there is a distinct lack of dissusion and reviews about the SR-007, especially in comparison to the HD800. What this means is that I'm getting a very small sample size. A few reviews rave about the performance increase over the HD800 whereas others state just the opposite. I would love to hear an electrostatic headphone (particularly the 007) but there is just no way for me to do so unless I sell my current setup and buy Stax. What a tough game this is.


 

 Don't know how hard it is for you, but on March 14, 2015, there will be a headphone meet in Ann Arbor, MI, that someone has planned to bring a Stax 404 and associated Stax amp... not quite an SR-007, but an electrostatic (I think it is) nonetheless.  There are several HD 800s scheduled to appear.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/744205/southeastern-michigan-spring-meet-03-14-2015-hosted-by-overture-audio-ann-arbor-mi#post_11084911


----------



## wink

I love my HD800, but, sadly, it is not up to either of my Staxxen.
  
 Both the SR009 and SR007 are better except for width of soundstage.
  
 btw, I run my HD800 out of a 80W/channel balanced Class A amp and the Staxxen out of a KGSSHV 450v Sanyo sand with the normal 5mA bias current.


----------



## pearljam50000

I look at it differently , its impressive for the HD800, that a dynamic headphone is even compared to an electrostatic headphones!


----------



## preproman

wink said:


> I love my HD800, but, sadly, it is not up to either of my Staxxen.
> 
> Both the SR009 and SR007 are better except for width of soundstage.
> 
> *btw, I run my HD800 out of a 80W/channel balanced Class A amp* and the Staxxen out of a KGSSHV 450v Sanyo sand with the normal 5mA bias current.


 
  


 Who needs a stinking headphone amp.....


----------



## HiFiChris

mach3 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > They sent me mine in an e-mail ...took about a week.
> ...


 
  
 Mine took about about a month to be delivered (by e-Mail).
 Maybe there were holidays.


----------



## Justin_Time

notalefty said:


> Has anyone here been able to listen to both the HD800 and Stax SR-007? I'm really enjoying my current setup but at the same time really want to hear an electrostatic headphone of that caliber. I have only ever heard electrostatic speakers.




I interpret your statement "...been able to listen to both the HD800 and Stax SR.-007..." to mean having access to both cans and not being able to tolerate both cans.

I have owned both cans for a few years now. The HD has deeper and tighter bass, slightly better dynamics and more prominent treble. The 007 mk1--better than the mk2 in my opinion--is more coherent from top to bottom with better micro details and smoother treble. Both share a common sonic trait: uncommon transparency.

If you like the HD800, chances are you will also like the 007--the 00 stands for license to kill your pocket book.


----------



## Justin_Time

nephilim32 said:


> And if you want dead accurate neutral sound with the tightest bass imaginable you opt for the Burson Soloist. When it comes to letting the pure characteristics of rich dynamics out of the HD 800 down to microscopic detail I have yet to hear a better amp that does so, than the soloist. Those Aussies sure can build a killer class A amp!!




I just want to give a different opinion about pairing the Soloist with the HD800.

To my ears, the Soloist still has too much of the typical "transistor sound" left for me to enjoy it with the HD800, which reproduces everything faithfully, warts and all. There is a remnant of hardness/edginess in the sound of the soloist--from overshots during attacks--and missing richness in the overtones that are not a problem with the LCD3 for example but quite noticeable with the higher-resolution of the HD-800. This problem was there even when I switched from a bright SABRE DAC to a smoother Burr-Brown DAC.

These small but irritating flaws went away when I switched to the HeadAmp GS-X Mk2, Bakoon HPA-21 or any of Nelson Pass' s superb Class-A speaker amps like the First Watt M2 or the Pass Aleph 0s or 3, all moderately rated around 25-35 watts into 8 ohms. It may not be fair to compare the more moderately priced Soloists to these amps but my point is to simply put forth that the pairing of the HD-800 with the Soloist is far from optimal and definitely not perfect to my ears. This does not make the Soloist a bad amp, just not my choice for pairing with the HD-800. If you find the prices of these superb Class A SS amps less than palatable, I believe that moderately priced tube amps or hybrid amps are a safer way to squeeze the best sound out of the HD-800.


----------



## Zoom25

I got my FR from Sennheiser in a day. I was told a week as well.


----------



## rage3324

Just got mine this morning. Requested it late Friday afternoon.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

hifichris said:


> Mine took about about a month to be delivered (by e-Mail).
> Maybe there were holidays.


 

 I had to ask three times for mine... once in August just after I received them, again in December, and finally this month, where I actually submitted 5 (five) separate requests in a row out of frustration. 
  
 Turns out at least part of the problem was me, as in some requests I used the date I purchased the headphones, and in others I used the date I actually received them.
  
 But I finally got mine (by e-mail).


----------



## icebear

That's written proof your 'phones are fake


----------



## subtle

justin_time said:


> These small but irritating flaws went away when I switched to the HeadAmp GS-X Mk2, Bakoon HPA-21 or any of Nelson Pass' s superb Class-A speaker amps like the First Watt M2 or the Pass Aleph 0s or 3, all moderately rated around 25-35 watts into 8 ohms.


 
  
 Is there any kind of consensus as to which one of Nelson's amps, in or out of production, pairs best with the HD800?
  
 I may be interested in trying one of these out.


----------



## Justin_Time

I have only my experience to rely on.

The First Watt M2 was good. The old Pass Aleph 3 and 0s are better. I own these.

I have tried the First Watt J2, and it is better than the amps above. 

I was told by good authority that the F1J sounds even better than the J2 with the HD800.

UPDATE: BTW, all of these Nelson's amps sound great with the HE-6


----------



## icebear

I guess for consensus the First Watts are too rare but for what it's worth the HD800 with my M2 sounds sublime.
 As this one is said to have some characteristic of SET amps, so it might be a little warm, maybe it pairs particularly well with the HD800.
 But this is speculation as I have not heard any other First Watt.
  
 Check the "Speaker amp for headphones" or "Best amp for HD800" threads and search for First Watt. F1J seems also to work well.


----------



## knowhatimean

justin_time said:


> nephilim32 said:
> 
> 
> > And if you want dead accurate neutral sound with the tightest bass imaginable you opt for the Burson Soloist. When it comes to letting the pure characteristics of rich dynamics out of the HD 800 down to microscopic detail I have yet to hear a better amp that does so, than the soloist. Those Aussies sure can build a killer class A amp!!
> ...


 
 Having used the same pairing (HD800 / Soloist) for awhile I discovered that my initial take on the Soloist not being up to the task
 of being it's warm / neutral self with the HD800 wasn't the Soloist's fault.You do have to address the reason these 2 components
 "Won't play nice together"
  
 I won't go into it too much but I would bet the difference in opinion comes down to whether or not a "stock" or "modded" HD800 were
 being used. (You absolutely can use a tube or other warmer sounding amp to "tame" the hardness, but I don't think you necessarily
 have to & I won't say what I think this is doing  as it's too early to fan out some of the "flames" I'd probably get)
  
 Having been evasive about things , I will confirm these two " can" work well together.... But (I'll leave it to you to fill out the rest)
  
 (I am using about $4K of line conditioning in front of everything & I believe this has a huge impact on impressions of things so YMMV)
  
 Have a good one
 ~steve


----------



## subtle

justin_time said:


> I have only my experience to rely on.
> 
> The First Watt M2 was good. The old Pass Aleph 3 and 0s are better. I own these.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the quick feedback.  I've been looking for something that can pair well with both the HE-6 and HD800.  I'll have to seek one of these out.


----------



## subtle

icebear said:


> I guess for consensus the First Watts are too rare but for what it's worth the HD800 with my M2 sounds sublime.
> As this one is said to have some characteristic of SET amps, so it might be a little warm, maybe it pairs particularly well with the HD800.
> But this is speculation as I have not heard any other First Watt.
> 
> Check the "Speaker amp for headphones" or "Best amp for HD800" threads and search for First Watt. F1J seems also to work well.


 
  
 I appreciate the input.  I haven't visited either of those threads in awhile.  Time for some research.


----------



## Justin_Time

subtle said:


> Thanks for the quick feedback.  I've been looking for something that can pair well with both the HE-6 and HD800.  I'll have to seek one of these out.



 

Just a word of caution: these amps will work fine with the HE-6 with or without an adaptor box (resistors in parallel and serise) but some of these amps may have a gain that is too high for the HD-800 so using the box or home-made resistor arrays to reduce the gain may be necessary to keep the gremliuns out of the sound.

Happy hunting!


----------



## Justin_Time

knowhatimean said:


> Having used the same pairing (HD800 / Soloist) for awhile I discovered that my initial take on the Soloist not being up to the task
> of being it's warm / neutral self with the HD800 wasn't the Soloist's fault.You do have to address the reason these 2 components
> "Won't play nice together"
> 
> ...



 


No flame from me! Just a different opinion.

By the way, I did modify my HD-800 using Anaxilus instructionhs but I stopped short of removing the grill, whic I finfd to be an integral part of the HD-800 look.

Cheers,


----------



## preproman

subtle said:


> Is there any kind of consensus as to which one of Nelson's amps, in or out of production, pairs best with the HD800?
> 
> I may be interested in trying one of these out.


 
  
 The F1J is one of the cleanest most revealing amps he makes in the First Watt line.  Best make sure you have DAC that you really like.  Icebear is correct, the M2 is most likely the best match for the HD800, depending on your taste.  There's also the SIT-2, this is also said to be tube like.
  
 I'm in the market for another one myself, thiking about the F3-Power JFIT, F2J The J2 is said to be a little on the lean side so that's out for me - or maybe not.  It's just to damn many to choose from and all having different flavors.
  
 If you come across a F1J best to grab it up fast - it's very rare to see on the used market.
  
 Call and talk to Mark at Reno HiFi - he is a great person to talk to.  http://renohifi.com/


----------



## preproman

> Originally Posted by *knowhatimean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> (You absolutely can use a tube or other warmer sounding amp to "tame" the hardness, but I don't think you necessarily
> have to & I won't say what I think this is doing  as it's too early to fan out some of the "flames" I'd probably get)
> ...


 
  
 I agree with you about the tubes.  The "4K" tube amp I had didn't do it for me the way a Nelson Pass amp does.


----------



## knowhatimean

justin_time said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > Having used the same pairing (HD800 / Soloist) for awhile I discovered that my initial take on the Soloist not being up to the task
> ...


 
 Actually , I think "removing the grilles" (which wasn't part of the Anax mod. version I used) made the most significant difference to
 me !!
  
 "Grilles??? I don't need no steeenkin' grilles" You're right though we do have different opinions (But, I'm "Righter"; haven't had my
 coffee yet !!!) (I guess I'm just not as HD800 "fashion savvy" as others ! He he he he he !)
  
 later
 ~steve


----------



## subtle

preproman said:


> The F1J is one of the cleanest most revealing amps he makes in the First Watt line.  Best make sure you have DAC that you really like.  Icebear is correct, the M2 is most likely the best match for the HD800, depending on your taste.  There's also the SIT-2, this is also said to be tube like.
> 
> I'm in the market for another one myself, thiking about the F3-Power JFIT, F2J The J2 is said to be a little on the lean side so that's out for me - or maybe not.  It's just to damn many to choose from and all having different flavors.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Excellent feedback and advice.  I will give him a call.
  
 I remember these First Watt amps being all the rage many years back with Patrick and his K1000 obsession but I never did try one out.  I think it's time to remedy that.  The M2 seems reasonably priced.


----------



## BobJS

ruthieandjohn said:


> I had to ask three times for mine... once in August just after I received them, again in December, and finally this month, where I actually submitted 5 (five) separate requests in a row out of frustration.
> 
> Turns out at least part of the problem was me, as in some requests I used the date I purchased the headphones, and in others I used the date I actually received them.
> 
> But I finally got mine (by e-mail).


 
  
 Low frequencies analyzed conventionally.  Upper end measured by etch-a-sketch.


----------



## pearljam50000

lol, that does look weird


----------



## icebear

That's the 12khz devils mod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 version.


----------



## knowhatimean

That Emia" Headphone Amplifier"( I believe its actually just an" Impedence matching Transformer") that Stereodesk is carrying
 is something that has really been drawing my interest . The explanation of how you may not actually need the additional gain provided
 by  an amplifier if the source that the signal is coming from is already  capable of providing a few volts (in this case my
 Hex DAC is outputting 2V) of output as much as you simply need to match the headphone's impedence. & what could be more
 transparent then a properly wound transformer. I thought about how very little gain that I ordinarily set my volume attentuator at & for myself this this approach could definitely work. The only drawback for me is that it's price starts a bit higher than some of the other options I've been considering !
  
 The Pass amps are another appealing option to me, but I'd have to find some passive attentuators for this to be workable for my setup (I can recall being very impressed with the sound of one of the low power Aleph amps sometime ago: I'm guessing the First Watt line is an advancement of how the Alephs sounded so I have little doubt these amps are "special")
  
 "Too much nice stuff out there; Too little money" (No, I'm not going to start about riding a shovel because I can't afford a bicycle)
  
 (This not the thread I thought I was on but it will do !)


----------



## icebear

knowhatimean said:


> ....
> The Pass amps are another appealing option to me, but *I'd have to find some passive attentuators for this to be workable for my setup* (I can recall being very impressed with the sound of one of the low power Aleph amps sometime ago: I'm guessing the First Watt line is an advancement of how the Alephs sounded so I have little doubt these amps are "special")
> ....


 
  
 There are possibly cheaper options around but at the time I needed a volume adjustment option I just by chance stumbled over Luminous Audio *Axiom II*. It's a shunt regulator i.e. what's not needed is shunt to ground and the signal itself is not forced through the pot itself - at least that's how I understood it. I got the most basic version for less than $200 and to my ears it sounds absolutely neutral. At any level adjustment gives you just that up or down in volume but no change in "sound flavor". Wire with NO gain


----------



## knowhatimean

"Wire with no gain" I've heard this before....I just thought they were being overly personal & talking about ME !!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 (thanks great suggestions for a new project !!!)


----------



## preproman

icebear said:


> There are possibly cheaper options around but at the time I needed a volume adjustment option I just by chance stumbled over Luminous Audio *Axiom II*. It's a shunt regulator i.e. what's not needed is shunt to ground and the signal itself is not forced through the pot itself - at least that's how I understood it. I got the most basic version for less than $200 and to my ears it sounds absolutely neutral. At any level adjustment gives you just that up or down in volume but no change in "sound flavor". Wire with NO gain


 

 Good move on the passive pre..


----------



## nephilim32

justin_time said:


> I just want to give a different opinion about pairing the Soloist with the HD800.
> 
> 
> To my ears, the Soloist still has too much of the typical "transistor sound" left for me to enjoy it with the HD800, which reproduces everything faithfully, warts and all. There is a remnant of hardness/edginess in the sound of the soloist--from overshots during attacks--and missing richness in the overtones that are not a problem with the LCD3 for example but quite noticeable with the higher-resolution of the HD-800. This problem was there even when I switched from a bright SABRE DAC to a smoother Burr-Brown DAC.
> ...




As usual thank you Justin for your thoughtful and meaningful opinions. I've had my eye on that Bakoon hpa-21. The use of a current driving system rather than pure voltage is interesting to me for an amp; however that is not my main curiosity because the soloist supplies ample power for the 800's. I never use the 2nd gain setting on it. Anyway that 'hardness' you speak of I just don't hear that because maybe the DAC I have remedies that possibly. It has a burr brown chip, so maybe it gives me that added smoothness cause I find no harshness or grain. I Also have great cables and that may help as well. 

Anyway. I appreciate your opinions, but my god to my ears the soloist absolutely rocks with the 800's. it's ethereal for me but I know I may have my other system components to thank for that. 

Happy listening to you, and I will try to test out that lovely bakoon.


----------



## nephilim32

ruthieandjohn said:


> Last May, I went through a year's worth of the thread "How We Rank The Headphones That We Own," compiling statistics on how folks, well, ranked the headphones that they owned.  Here is the thread, for reference:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/721406/how-we-rank-our-own-headphones-statistics-of-2-000-owner-rankings-compiled#post_10597847
> 
> In addition to the big table of rankings of "commonly-owned" headphones (ones that at least 10 of the 2,000 rankings included), I have a spreadsheet tool that describes how any headphone that was ranked, was ranked.
> 
> ...




Hey. This is amazing. Thank you so much and I will definitely sift through the data cause testimonials and cranking systems are always a help. This is an impressive body of work, and I hope that at a $4500 price tag those 009's better have a leg up on the Sen-800's. 
I hope I one day get to hear them with a high end electrostatic amp.


----------



## nephilim32

drez said:


> I recall brief impression was that imaging was really nice with that amp, short signal path and single ended probably helps.  I might have to look into trying one out as the price is much lower than other amplifiers I am looking at.




Oh man it uses only 23 components or somewhere around there. Yes. The signal pathway is very short. Put it to ya this way, the average OP AMP uses above 50, so you know that the design and amp style of the Burson is first class. In my opinion the soloist performs like a 2500$+ amp. I can't believe that thing is below 2'gs.


----------



## nephilim32

tonynewman said:


> To my ears, a well driven + modded HD800 beats LCD-X/3C/3F - that's just my preference. I am not a big fan of the Audeze house sound.
> 
> The only headphone I have heard that beats it is a well driven + modded HE6. That is the best HeadFi experience I have had so far.
> 
> (I have not heard any electrostatics, or the HE1000 or Abyss).




Me as well. No electrostatics to my ears...yet. 
Also when you say 'modded 800' do you mean the anaxilus mod where you replace the inner foam pad to supposedly give the treble extension less bite or hardness as some of you fellow head fi'rs have spoken about? 

Cheers.


----------



## nephilim32

brokenthumb said:


> I really like the Soloist with the HD800, I also prefer the LCD-2 on the Soloist over the Mjolnir.  Both matched to 78 dB the Soloist sounds more dynamic to me which goes against what I've always read about the Mjolnir vs Soloist.
> 
> I've also got a Valhalla 2 coming in tomorrow to try out with the HD800.




Love to hear your "impressions" of the Valhalla 2. I adore the soloist as well. It's an excellent pairing to my ears because I really prefer very wide dynamics and sharp tonal details of the instruments I hear. 
Hey. Question. Do you ever use the 2nd gain level on the soloist? I never do. The first setting is always enough and I usually hover around 75 to 80 db like you.


----------



## Justin_Time

nephilim32 said:


> Me as well. No electrostatics to my ears...yet.
> Also when you say 'modded 800' do you mean the anaxilus mod where you replace the inner foam pad to supposedly give the treble extension less bite or hardness as some of you fellow head fi'rs have spoken about?
> 
> Cheers.




Good Morning Nephilim32

The Anaxilus initial modification entails adding a felt ring on the metal periphery of the driver. Later, some also added a foam liner on the metal surface beyond the immediate periphery of the drivers. Removing the grill cloth--may be this is the "inner foam pad" you are referring to as the HD-800 has no foam pad--is optional as it does not make a large sonic difference. I left it in as it keeps the dust out.

You can search under Anaxilus and get the templates for the felt rings and suggestions for the materials to use and where to buy them.

This is a lot cheaper than buying the Woo WA5 or Apex Teton, though you can still get those great amps...

 Happy Hunting!


----------



## Justin_Time

nephilim32 said:


> Me as well. No electrostatics to my ears...yet.
> Also when you say 'modded 800' do you mean the anaxilus mod where you replace the inner foam pad to supposedly give the treble extension less bite or hardness as some of you fellow head fi'rs have spoken about?
> 
> Cheers.




Get the Stax 007/009! If you like the HD-800, chances are you will like the Stax.

They are so good you'll feel like walking on air...actually, you are literally floating without the heavy burden of $5,000 weighting you down.

When I started to dabble in High-End Audio, the Stax were like mythical creatures that you only heard about but never saw; they were so ridiculously expensive nobody you knew owned a pair. Now, the price of everything are so inflated, the Stax have become merely expensive but almost affordable...


----------



## TonyNewman

nephilim32 said:


> Me as well. No electrostatics to my ears...yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep - here's a link to an article from Inner Fidelity on the mod (in case you haven't seen it).
  
 Very easy to do and reversible (but I'm keeping it).
  
LINK


----------



## TonyNewman

justin_time said:


> Get the Stax 007/009! If you like the HD-800, chances are you will like the Stax.
> 
> They are so good you'll feel like walking on air...actually, you are literally floating without the heavy burden of $5,000 weighting you down.
> 
> When I started to dabble in High-End Audio, the Stax were like mythical creatures that you only heard about but never saw; they were so ridiculously expensive nobody you knew owned a pair. Now, the price of everything are so inflated, the Stax have become merely expensive but almost affordable...


 
  
 The thing about going electrostatics is that it isn't just the headphone - it's the amp also - and the good ones are pricey. It's a big financial commitment for what is likely to be a small improvement over the high end planar + dynamic headphones and conventional amps I already have.
  
 My choice would be to take a fraction of the cost of an electrostatic rig and get a pair of Elrog 300Bs now and perhaps the HE1000 headphone next year (depending on the forum feedback), and still have spent much less than an SR-009 + BHSE setup.


----------



## edstrelow

tonynewman said:


> Yep - here's a link to an article from Inner Fidelity on the mod (in case you haven't seen it).
> 
> Very easy to do and reversible (but I'm keeping it).
> 
> LINK



Interesting. I have been tweaking Stax phones with sorbothane a substance which at least has the virtue of being designed for damping of audible frequencies. There are lots of different flat, self-stick versions of varying thickness, and stiffness. These are very cheap on Amazon and Ebay. You can slap pieces anywhere on the earcups although I think the best results are obtained by placing it close to the drivers. The results are, I think extremely good.  I have only tried it on one dynamic phone so far and found sorb was working much the same as for the stats. Perhaps someone will give this a go.


----------



## Justin_Time

tonynewman said:


> The thing about going electrostatics is that it isn't just the headphone - it's the amp also - and the good ones are pricey. It's a big financial commitment for what is likely to be a small improvement over the high end planar + dynamic headphones and conventional amps I already have.
> 
> My choice would be to take a fraction of the cost of an electrostatic rig and get a pair of Elrog 300Bs now and perhaps the HE1000 headphone next year (depending on the forum feedback), and still have spent much less than an SR-009 + BHSE setup.



 


Tony,

You are quite right. 

I was about 50% off the mark. After you get the Stax 009 and the BHSE, you should feel very light on your feet indeed, as $5,000 has been removed from EACH of your two pockets!

The speed with which were are approaching the cost of the Stax units--theretofore thought of as unreachable--is not very comforting.

To repeat an old and tired refrain about price escalation, these may be the golden days of High-End Headphones. 

The $1,500 IEM, $5,000 HP and $5,000-$10,000 headAmps have already begun their assault on affordable gears. The recent entries of big names in High-End Home Stereo into the headphone world portents the beginning of the end.. 

These big boys will do to us what they have already done to the High-End Home Stereo, producing very high-end and ridiculously expensive gears reserved for only the priviledged few, leaving most of current Head-Fiers to reminesce about the good old days where one of the best headphones (the HD-800) money can be bought at a mere $1500! 

Cheers,

ST


----------



## TonyNewman

There's the rub - by the time folks get thinking seriously about electrostatics they would usually have a large sunk cost in dynamics and planars. Taking that leap means stumping for another high end amp and headphone. Big bucks.
  
 I'd really like to - but my wallet says no


----------



## rage3324

If you had $1200 (with money available for upgrades later) to spend on a used or new amp for the HD800, what would you purchase?


----------



## kapanak

rage3324 said:


> If you had $1200 (with money available for upgrades later) to spend on a used or new amp for the HD800, what would you purchase?


 

 You already have the WA7 with the WA7 tube power supply. You really can't do much better than that at this price point for HD800. Maybe tube upgrades, but that's about it, and a slippery slope.
  
 At higher price point, ever so slightly higher than $1200, EC Super 7, DNA Sonnett 2, Schiit Ragnarok, Auralic Taurus MKII, and Sennheiser's own HDVA600/HDVD800 comes to mind. All easily doable under $2000. All great matches for HD800. Much better than anything else under $2000.


----------



## rage3324

kapanak said:


> You already have the WA7 with the WA7 tube power supply. You really can't do much better than that at this price point for HD800. Maybe tube upgrades, but that's about it, and a slippery slope.
> 
> At higher price point, ever so slightly higher than $1200, EC Super 7, DNA Sonnett 2, Schiit Ragnarok, Auralic Taurus MKII, and Sennheiser's own HDVA600/HDVD800 comes to mind. All easily doable under $2000. All great matches for HD800. Much better than anything else under $2000.


 
 You would not find the WA2 to be an upgrade over the WA7? I don't find the WA7 to be bad or anything, but can tell the HD800 could do better with more. I am thinking about selling the dacmini as well which gives me the abilit to look at an all-in-one solution for 2k. I likely would be buying used, so think more along the lines of used prices


----------



## kapanak

rage3324 said:


> You would not find the WA2 to be an upgrade over the WA7? I don't find the WA7 to be bad or anything, but can tell the HD800 could do better with more. I am thinking about selling the dacmini as well which gives me the abilit to look at an all-in-one solution for 2k. I likely would be buying used, so think more along the lines of used prices


 

 Honestly, I think Woo Audio products, ESPECIALLY the WA2, makes the HD800 sound too liquidy, syruppy, or gooey. I'm not sure how else to explain it, but the HD800 loses all the qualities that makes it special with the WA2, like microdetails, accuracy, etc. You'd be better off with a different headphone if that's what you're looking for.
  
 For $1300-$1400 (depends on your choice of potentiometer) DNA Sonnet 2 is your best bet for something that just makes the HD800 sing and brings forward 99% of the best sound HD800 can produce. http://www.dnaudio.com/DNA-Sonett-2-headphone-amplifier.html
  
 Then get a used Sabre box, like the Concero HD or Matrix X-Sabre as your DAC for below $800.


----------



## preproman

kapanak said:


> Honestly, I think Woo Audio products, ESPECIALLY the WA2, makes the HD800 sound too liquidy, syruppy, or gooey. I'm not sure how else to explain it, but the HD800 loses all the qualities that makes it special with the WA2, like microdetails, accuracy, etc. You'd be better off with a different headphone if that's what you're looking for.
> 
> For $1300-$1400 (depends on your choice of potentiometer) DNA Sonnet 2 is your best bet for something that just makes the HD800 sing and* brings forward 99% of the best sound HD800 can produce.* http://www.dnaudio.com/DNA-Sonett-2-headphone-amplifier.html
> 
> Then get a used Sabre box, like the Concero HD or Matrix X-Sabre as your DAC for below $800.


 
  
 Now, how in the world would you know that?


----------



## kapanak

preproman said:


> Now, how in the world would you know that?


 
  
 99% compared to the best I have heard. Me. My ears. I thought that assumption was automatically made by people that have been on HF for a while.
  
 For two weeks, I heard the HD800 through Schiit Ragnarok, Auralic Taurus MKII, Sennheiser HDVA600, DNA Sonnett 2, DNA Stratus, Bottlehead Crack, Schiit Valhalla 2, Lehmann Black Cube Linear, Resonessence Labs Concero HP, Marantz HD-DAC1, HeadAmp GS-X, and Violectric V181.
  
 Other than the Concero HP and the Marantz, which were DAC/Amps, the rest were fed by first the Resonessence Labs Concero HD, then by the iFi Micro iDSD, and at last, by an Auralic Vega DAC.
  
 Based on my judgement and ears, I found the Stratus to be the best tube amp, and the Sonnet 2 to be the second best. The most resolving was the Ragnarok, and the most enjoyable solid state was the Taurus MKII.
  
 Now, I hear the EC 445 sounds even better than anything I heard, so I won't know what they sound 100% until I hear it from a Schiit Yggy fed to a EC 445.
  
 Of course, your 100% will significantly differ from my 100%. Rage wanted an answer, I gave him an answer. Maybe you should give an answer too if you want, instead of criticizing others in a forum revolving around personal opinion and subjective views.


----------



## whirlwind

kapanak said:


> rage3324 said:
> 
> 
> > You would not find the WA2 to be an upgrade over the WA7? I don't find the WA7 to be bad or anything, but can tell the HD800 could do better with more. I am thinking about selling the dacmini as well which gives me the abilit to look at an all-in-one solution for 2k. I likely would be buying used, so think more along the lines of used prices
> ...


 
 Well, telling someone that they would be better off with a different headphone than the HD800 if they are planning on getting a Woo WA2 is maybe a little out of line....maybe ?


----------



## kapanak

whirlwind said:


> Well, telling someone that they would be better off with a different headphone than the HD800 if they are planning on getting a Woo WA2 is maybe a little out of line....maybe ?


 
 I didn't tell him to get a different headphone. I gave an honest opinion of my own about what the WA2 does to the HD800, and how you can achieve the same sound signature by just using a different headphone instead of spending the money on HD800 and WA2. He already knows what the HD800 sounds like, and he likes it. He has a good amp for it, the WA7 with tube power supply. He wanted something better. I told him what I considered better. He wasn't planning on getting the WA2. He is asking about our impressions of it for now.


----------



## preproman

kapanak said:


> 99% compared to the best I have heard. Me. My ears. I thought that assumption was automatically made by people that have been on HF for a while.
> 
> For two weeks, I heard the HD800 through Schiit Ragnarok, Auralic Taurus MKII, Sennheiser HDVA600, DNA Sonnett 2, DNA Stratus, Bottlehead Crack, Schiit Valhalla 2, Lehmann Black Cube Linear, Resonessence Labs Concero HP, Marantz HD-DAC1, HeadAmp GS-X, and Violectric V181.
> 
> ...


 

 Funny guy...
  
 And just where was the criticizing?  And why so defensive?  Take it easy greasy...
  
 This is what you said " *brings forward 99% of the best sound HD800 can produce"   *We make no assumptions here - at least I don't.  You know what they say about assuming things,,,,,    
  
 Some really nice amps you heard there..    Why a Schitt Yaggy?  You heard it was the best or something  ha ha ha..
  
 Hay buddy..  Good for you.  Have fun with your EC 445 and Yaggy.


----------



## kapanak

preproman said:


> Funny guy...
> 
> And just where was the criticizing?  And why so defensive?  Take it easy greasy...
> 
> ...


 

 Very mature response. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 And yes, I heard it was great. The Yggy. I'll form my own opinion after I have had a chance to hear it.
  
 Enjoy whatever you enjoy.


----------



## rage3324

Well, that got weird..
  
 So, I happen to like the Woo sound with the HD800. So the WA2 is an option for me if I want a woo with more power. The DNA Sonett 2 really interests me as does some of the Decware options.


----------



## knowhatimean

Speaking of EC, any word on the "Red Top" ?  ( I'm not a fan of tubes, but those who design them "Know their way around
 a circuit" so a reasonably priced SS design from a respected headphone amp maker grabs my attention !


----------



## vc1187

rage3324 said:


> Well, that got weird..
> 
> So, I happen to like the Woo sound with the HD800. So the WA2 is an option for me if I want a woo with more power. The DNA Sonett 2 really interests me as does some of the Decware options.




I'm sure it's been said before and it's quite an old amp, but the EC Zana Deux has a synergy with the HD800 may end your journey for the perfect pairing, granted you're willing to stretch your budget that far.


----------



## rage3324

vc1187 said:


> I'm sure it's been said before and it's quite an old amp, but the EC Zana Deux has a synergy with the HD800 may end your journey for the perfect pairing, granted you're willing to stretch your budget that far.


 
 The EC Zana Deux is my reach choice if it pops up used for a good price. How does it compare to the Decware CSP3, DNA Sonett and Woo WA2? I might give the CSP3 a shot as they are only 2 hours away from where I live. Hoping I can pop in with all my headphones and test out their gear.


----------



## vc1187

rage3324 said:


> The EC Zana Deux is my reach choice if it pops up used for a good price. How does it compare to the Decware CSP3, DNA Sonett and Woo WA2? I might give the CSP3 a shot as they are only 2 hours away from where I live. Hoping I can pop in with all my headphones and test out their gear.




To be completely honest, I have never heard the HD800 paired with any of the amps you listed... However I have heard the HD800 on some amps that are said to play well with it: questyle cma800R, headamp gsx-mkii, woo wa22, cavalli LG, BH Crack, and moth audio 2a3. The ZD is one of those special amps that come around once every so often. While I'd like to hear the Stratus, I'm sure it gives the Stratus a run for its money.


----------



## pearljam50000

Yo @rage3324  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 How are you feeling about the HD800 vs PS1000e now that you had more time with them?
 Thanks.


----------



## bearFNF

I have the taboo MkIII and like is very much.  I have never heard the CSP3 but others have said it does well with the HD800, also. So it would be worth a listen if you are going there anyway.
  
 The Rag also does very well with the HD800 as well as the LCD3. 
  
 BH Crack with speedball was nice but in the system I listened to it on seemed lacking, it needed a better source (was off a laptop and E07k in an E09 converter).
  
 WA2 with stock tubes was a no go for me.  Been told it would be better with the upgraded tubes???
  
 I also liked the WA7 with the tube power supply, but not more than my MKIII.
  
 The ZD was also nice.  Again not so much so that I would trade my MKIII for it.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

pearljam50000 said:


> Yo @rage3324
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

@pearljam50000
  
 You didn't ask me, but here is a comparison I did between the HD 800 and the PS 1000 (not the 1000-e)...
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/530965/grado-fan-club/23295#post_11340487
  
 Summary chart (details are in the post)... HD 800 vs. Grado PS1000 vs Grado RS1i
  
 (click to expand)


----------



## rage3324

bearfnf said:


> I have the taboo MkIII and like is very much.  I have never heard the CSP3 but others have said it does well with the HD800, also. So it would be worth a listen if you are going there anyway.
> 
> The Rag also does very well with the HD800 as well as the LCD3.
> 
> ...


 
 I thought the Taboo MK III was for Planars? What is the difference between the CSP3 and MKIII  besides price


----------



## bearFNF

rage3324 said:


> I thought the Taboo MK III was for Planars? What is the difference between the CSP3 and MKIII  besides price


 

 The long and the short of it is that the CSP3 is a preamp with headphone jack added, The MKIII is an amp with both speaker taps and headphone connections.  I wont get into more detail as you can read all about it on the Decware site. Or someone else can chime in with knowledge of both that can answer in more detail.
  
 Like I said, the discussions I have had with others indicate that the CSP3 works well with the HD800, I have not heard it though so take it as it hearsay until you do hear it.
 I do have and like the MKIII very much.


----------



## skeptic

rage3324 said:


> If you had $1200 (with money available for upgrades later) to spend on a used or new amp for the HD800, what would you purchase?


 
  
 I'd encourage you to save $200 and buy and build a mainline while they're on sale for the next few days.  http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=7581.0  Just a wonderful totl amp for hd800's and without competition in this price range in my view (assuming you are willing to take on the build).  For more by way of impressions, you can read my comments and those of some other owners here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline#post_9831594


----------



## punit

skeptic said:


> Just a wonderful totl amp for hd800's


 
 I agree.


----------



## Justin_Time

kapanak said:


> Honestly, I think Woo Audio products, ESPECIALLY the WA2, makes the HD800 sound too liquidy, syruppy, or gooey. I'm not sure how else to explain it, but the HD800 loses all the qualities that makes it special with the WA2, like microdetails, accuracy, etc. You'd be better off with a different headphone if that's what you're looking for.
> 
> For $1300-$1400 (depends on your choice of potentiometer) DNA Sonnet 2 is your best bet for something that just makes the HD800 sing and brings forward 99% of the best sound HD800 can produce. http://www.dnaudio.com/DNA-Sonett-2-headphone-amplifier.html
> 
> Then get a used Sabre box, like the Concero HD or Matrix X-Sabre as your DAC for below $800.




My experience does not support your observations.

Like many tube amps, the sounds of the WA7 and WA2 change a lot depending on what tubes you use. Personally, I was never able to make the HD-800 sound " gooey" regardless of what tube amps (or tubes) I used including the pretty soft MAD Ear+ HD + with Sylvania tubes. Before abandoning any Woo amps, I think a wiser move would be to try a few different tubes to tune the HD-800 sound to exactly what you want. This is much easier than trying to find a SS amp that works well with the HD-800. I own about a dozen SS amps, and only the GS-X Mk2 and V200, and to a lesser extent the Bryston BHA-1, mate well with the HD-800. Most tube and hybrid amps I own are good matches for the HD-800. Perhaps we just like different sounds.

Also, DACs using SABRE chips are just the wrong things to pair with the HD-800, as they exacerbate many of the issues with the HD-800: the treble can become so piecing it will drill holes through your ear drums.. I guess some like this kind of sound. I don't.


----------



## icebear

justin_time said:


> ....
> 
> Also, *DACs using SABRE chips are just the wrong things to pair with the HD-800*, as they exacerbate many of the issues with the HD-800: the treble can become so piecing it will drill holes through your ear drums.. I guess some like this kind of sound. I don't.


 
  
 Have you heard an exasound e20 DAC ? Has it pierced your ear drums? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My ears are still quite OK and I also do not like piercing highs. The e20 was developed using the HD800 (that's what George told me) and in my book it sounds wonderful. I was always wondering about the complaints with the HD800 e.g. sibilance, lack of bass etc. None of that with the e20 and it does use a Sabre32 ES9018. You are not directly plugging the headphone into the chip, do you? It's about the implementation and not the sticker on one part of the package, just my $0.02.


----------



## Justin_Time

icebear said:


> Have you heard an exasound e20 DAC ? Has it pierced your ear drums?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Oh, let's keep calm. No one plugs anything directly into the SABRE chips so asking that rhetorical question is not going to help.

No, I have not heard the e20, nor all DACs with SABRE chips but the one I have heard, the Oppo 95,105 and the new Oppo HA-1 headAmp DAC, plus another one who's name escapes me at the moment--it is too early in the morning for me--exhibited common sonic trait so I have to go with my experience, which admittedly does not encompass all the DACs using SABRE Chips. On the other hand, even old DACs using the ancient Burr-Brown Chips the RWA Bellini, sounded much smoother than any of the SABRE DACs I won. 

 Perhaps I am just unlucky that all the SABRE DACs I own sound bright and all the other non-SABRE I own sound fine. A fluke of statistics if you will and let it go at that.


----------



## RRod

justin_time said:


> Oh, let's keep calm. No one plugs anything directly into the SABRE chips so asking that rhetorical question is not going to help.
> 
> No, I have not heard the e20, nor all DACs with SABRE chips but the one I have heard, the Oppo 95,105 and the new Oppo HA-1 headAmp DAC, plus another one who's name escapes me at the moment--it is too early in the morning for me--exhibited common sonic trait so I have to go with my experience, which admittedly does not encompass all the DACs using SABRE Chips. On the other hand, even old DACs using the ancient Burr-Brown Chips the RWA Bellini, sounded much smoother than any of the SABRE DACs I won.
> 
> Perhaps I am just unlucky that all the SABRE DACs I own sound bright and all the other non-SABRE I own sound fine. A fluke of statistics if you will and let it go at that.


 
  
 You can always record from the line outs of your various DACs and compare the resulting files for differences in frequency content.


----------



## longbowbbs

rage3324 said:


> If you had $1200 (with money available for upgrades later) to spend on a used or new amp for the HD800, what would you purchase?


 
 Decware amps are a great fit with the HD800 too. The CSP's really make the 800's sing and you can find a used CSP2+ for under $1k generally. The tubes are easy ti find and not expensive too.


----------



## longbowbbs

> Also, DACs using SABRE chips are just the wrong things to pair with the HD-800, as they exacerbate many of the issues with the HD-800: the treble can become so piecing it will drill holes through your ear drums.. I guess some like this kind of sound. I don't.


 
 Generally I can concur with this but My Wyred 4 Sound DAC2DSDse does not do this. Perhaps it is the boatload of Vishay's EJ put in it but the high's are crystal clear without the piercing that seems to be a common issue. I love it with my HD800's.


----------



## potkettleblack

*Forgive me Sennheiser brothers for I have sinned.*
  
 Two days ago I went to hifi lounge in the UK. I trialed all of the best headphones in the world and as I thought I might, one of my favourites were the LCD X.
  
 I've had an ongoing issue with my 800's and the finish (please see previous posts), that my dealer has been very cool about. They let me keep mine whilst they tried to arrange a replacement with Sennheiser. Sennheiser have been dragging it out for such a long time it was decided that mine would need sending to them for them to confirm there was an issue (they didn't think I was lying just wanted to see them to stop it happening again). My dealer got two in and both had the same issue - one less than the other but still enough for me, and my ocd to not be happy.
  
 I decided to get refunded as it saved me constantly chasing for updates.
  
 I knew I was going to hifi lounge so I just thought I'll get them from these guys instead - and I actually preferred giving them my money to support them and their incredible gear they have (gear that anyone can just turn up and listen to for however many hours they need.
  
 So to summarise: I was amazed at how good the x's sounded. I preferred them to the 3's and nearly everything else there - that nearly is the 800's.
  
 I've decided to get the 800s in a few months (im not just saying this - the x's and those impressed me the most), and musically the x's did for me than the sr009's (something i couldnt afford anyway which might have been a huge factor)
  
 Again forgive me - it isn't over yet.


----------



## knowhatimean

He,he,he! I really believe that Oppo may have done SABRE a disservice by using their chips in the equipment by not spending
 enough time to properly implement it in their DACs. I'm certain that you will find that there are circuit design considerations that
 were taken by others who have used these chips, that weren't by Oppo.
  
 Realistically though look at the amount of price difference between what you are paying for an Oppo product & what you will pay
 for a "like" item from another "Specialist" audio company. Oppo does stack up well, but they are not structured to go the "extra step"other companies do as they'd rather spend the money on "Ergonomics"
  
 (I like the fact that we can "drift" a bit off topic here with out some knucklehead moderator "moving the posting to a more appropriate venue")


----------



## TonyNewman

knowhatimean said:


> He,he,he! I really believe that Oppo may have done SABRE a disservice by using their chips in the equipment by not spending
> enough time to properly implement it in their DACs. I'm certain that you will find that there are circuit design considerations that
> were taken by others who have used these chips, that weren't by Oppo.


 
  
 +1.
  
 My buddy has the Oppo HA-1 and the DAC is nasty. Bright and harsh and unpleasant - I really didn't like it. The amp stage is fine, but that DAC needs shooting in the head with extreme prejudice.
  
 My Vega uses SABRE chips, and it is a very different sounding beast. It's all about the implementation, not the chipset.


----------



## kapanak

tonynewman said:


> +1.
> 
> My buddy has the Oppo HA-1 and the DAC is nasty. Bright and harsh and unpleasant - I really didn't like it. The amp stage is fine, but that DAC needs shooting in the head with extreme prejudice.
> 
> My Vega uses SABRE chips, and it is a very different sounding beast. It's all about the implementation, not the chipset.




I agree, don't generalize Sabre sound to be all the same. An Auralic Vega is a top notch DAC, and just happens to use Sabre somewhere in its implementation too. Similarly, Concero lineup by Resonessence is a great Sabre implementation, as well as Matrix X-Sabre. There are of course more bad Sabre based DACs than good, unfortunately.


----------



## knowhatimean

tonynewman said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > He,he,he! I really believe that Oppo may have done SABRE a disservice by using their chips in the equipment by not spending
> ...


 
 Yeah, the Oppo that I had in years past definitely shaded my opinion about these chips so I decided to go in a different direction
 (Metrum Octave then Hex) that has worked out well for me.
  
 I thought it was time that I should correct my disservice of lumping "harsh" performance with the use of a passive component that
 is simply unable to work as well as it can in a sufficient circuit setting (Too many well regarded DACs using these chips & I think we
 all give too much importance to whatever chips are used.) (I thought it was time to admit to sloppy thinking on my part, even though
 I prefer a NOS DAC)
  
 If if slip & badmouth a chip again please let me know !
  
 (The Lyrita / Arnold Dances is just sounding "Spectacular" through my HD800s at this moment !!!) ( Those of you who like this type
 of music really do have to try some HD800 "modding": You owe it to great recordings to try it)


----------



## zilch0md

tonynewman said:


> +1.
> 
> My buddy has the Oppo HA-1 and the DAC is nasty. Bright and harsh and unpleasant - I really didn't like it. The amp stage is fine, but that DAC needs shooting in the head with extreme prejudice.
> 
> My Vega uses SABRE chips, and it is a very different sounding beast. It's all about the implementation, not the chipset.


 
  
 I don't use either the HA-1's DAC or amp section with the HD800, but I do like using the HA-1's amp fed by a Metrum Octave MkII for use with planar magnetics (LCD-2 rev.1 and PM-1).
  
 The worst part of the HA-1's DAC is the USB receiver.  I consider the very affordable TeraDak Teralink X2 USB-to-SPDIF to be justifiable upgrade to the HA-1's USB input.  
  
 Coaxial Input to the HA-1's DAC is much cleaner sounding.  I haven't tested optical input.
  
 Mike


----------



## Dragonsan

Anyone else experience fatigue after listening to the HD800s for a few hours?
  
 What do you do to cope with this fatigue? Sleep? Watch TV? Go for a walk? Have a bite to eat?


----------



## johnjen

The ANAX mods can help with this quite a bit, especially v.2.
  
 Also a 10-20 minute break can really be effective.
 It sort of 're-sets' and 'clears' the cumulative effects of Listener Fatigue Factor.
  
 My 2¢ anyway.
  
 JJ


----------



## 62ohm

dragonsan said:


> Anyone else experience fatigue after listening to the HD800s for a few hours?
> 
> What do you do to cope with this fatigue? Sleep? Watch TV? Go for a walk? Have a bite to eat?


 
  
 I never experience listening fatigue anymore ever since I got the HDVA 600, despite using the Benchmark DAC-1. And I believe there are other amps out there as well that pairs exceptionally well with the HD800 with no strident treble.


----------



## Dragonsan

62ohm said:


> I never experience listening fatigue anymore ever since I got the HDVA 600, despite using the Benchmark DAC-1. And I believe there are other amps out there as well that pairs exceptionally well with the HD800 with no strident treble.


 
  
 How well does the HDVA600 and (have you tried?) its big brother, HDVD800, pair with the HD800?


----------



## kapanak

dragonsan said:


> How well does the HDVA600 and (have you tried?) its big brother, HDVD800, pair with the HD800?


 
 HDVA600 and HDVD800 use the exact same amp section. HDVD800 has an additional DAC section and associated inputs. Otherwise, amp-wise, exactly the same.
  
 It works very well with HD800 and other high impedance Sennheisers and Beyers. A very nice, detailed, smooth sound with the HD800 especially. Definitely want to use it in balanced mode though, as the amp was designed with that in mind, and it certainly sounds better in balanced mode. No, your inputs don't HAVE to be balanced though.


----------



## 62ohm

dragonsan said:


> How well does the HDVA600 and (have you tried?) its big brother, HDVD800, pair with the HD800?


 
  
 The HDVA 600 have exactly the same amp as the HDVD 800, the only difference is the HDVA 800 comes with a built-in DAC as well. I like to think of it as a middle ground between the soft and gooey V200 and the sharp and precise BHA-1. It's a bit warm, though not as dark and laid back as a V200, and its treble still sounds crisp, but not fatiguing.
  
 I preferred it over both V200 and BHA-1, but as always, YMMV.


----------



## kapanak

The biggest issue I had with the HDVD800/HDVA600 is that you're buying it for the HD800. That's it. It won't really play well with much else.


----------



## Chodi

62ohm said:


> The HDVA 600 have exactly the same amp as the HDVD 800, the only difference is the HDVA 800 comes with a built-in DAC as well. I like to think of it as a middle ground between the *soft and gooey V200* and the sharp and precise BHA-1. It's a bit warm, though not as dark and laid back as a V200, and its treble still sounds crisp, but not fatiguing.
> 
> I preferred it over both V200 and BHA-1, but as always, YMMV.


 
 Did you just really call the V200 amp "soft and gooey"? I know everyone has their own preference for amps but the v200 is certainly a good headphone amp. It has been reviewed many times and though it may not please everyone it is still considered a good quality amp. Or maybe you were joking? No I don't own one but I have head it for extended listening.


----------



## kapanak

chodi said:


> Did you just really call the V200 amp "soft and gooey"? I know everyone has their own preference for amps but the v200 is certainly a good headphone amp. It has been reviewed many times and though it may not please everyone it is still considered a good quality amp. Or maybe you were joking? No I don't own one but I have head it for extended listening.


 

 V200 is a very warm amp. And yes, it softens the HD800, or gooefies it, and many like it that way. And yes, it is a very good amp.


----------



## 62ohm

chodi said:


> Did you just really call the V200 amp "soft and gooey"? I know everyone has their own preference for amps but the v200 is certainly a good headphone amp. It has been reviewed many times and though it may not please everyone it is still considered a good quality amp. Or maybe you were joking? No I don't own one but I have head it for extended listening.


 
  
 We all hears differently, and to me it does make the HD800 soft and gooey. That said, I don't think that's a bad thing as it IMO is captivating to listen to with the HD800. But as Kapanak said, it does gooefies it and many like it that way. Purrin also often says the V200 gooefies the HD800 too much you would be better off getting an LCD-2 instead.


----------



## HiFiChris

One of the reasons for the HDVD800 producing rather smooth treble coupled with the HD800 is its rather high output impedance of roughly 50 Ohms. IIrc, a Sennheiser production manager said they tested out several lower and higher impedances and decided they liked 50 Ohms the best.
 Beyerdynamic's A1 has also got a quite high output impedance (but they did it to minimize differences in volume when connecting different headphones).


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I agree. The HDVD 800 and HD 800 is a match made in heaven. I have never experienced either the fatiguing highs or the weak lows that some have on thenHD 800 while using the HDVD 800. I also have used it both single ended and balanced, and while there is a difference, I think the single ended sounds just find, too.


----------



## knowhatimean

dragonsan said:


> Anyone else experience fatigue after listening to the HD800s for a few hours?
> 
> What do you do to cope with this fatigue? Sleep? Watch TV? Go for a walk? Have a bite to eat?


 
 The reason we get fatigued after a few hours on one headphone & not another is that 1 has a much higher amount of high frequency
 "hash" (a lot of people like to call this "air";we really can't "hear" air) is acting like a constant "drone" that becomes a cumulative stress
 on our eardrums. The sound is being generated by the headphones themselves & while a lot of people aren't sensitive to this noise
 their eardrums could "care less" as it bothers them !
  
 When you finally reach the point where your ears have had enough you feel fatigued (& may also experience a slight bit of "tinitus"
 after taking the headphones off). At this point the best thing you can do is give your ears as much rest as you can (for a few hours
 at least)
  
 As JJ mentioned several hrs ago the Anax mods help quite a bit ,as they arey introducing more "random" lower frequency sound
 to the mix to "interrupt" the unchecked "hash" that is creating the constant "drone"(that you don't know is there) (These mods really
 aren't that difficult & are completely reversible). The important thing here is that you introduce something to change the sound balance.
 (Can you introduce a balance change by using a different amp ? Sure, but you don't have to (unless you just prefer the "sound" of
 that amp) to get rid of the "hash")
  
 If you do nothing else (& that would be ridiculous :as you have these great headphones) shorten your listening sessions to a point
 before you notice fatigue & take several listening breaks . If you do become fatigued only a substantial listening break (at least an
 hr, more if possible) is going to help you out, or LFF will pop right back up & you may now have to suspend your listening for the
 day !


----------



## ubs28

kapanak said:


> The biggest issue I had with the HDVD800/HDVA600 is that you're buying it for the HD800. That's it. It won't really play well with much else.


 

 Why is that? Is it because of the high impedance?


----------



## ubs28

hifichris said:


> One of the reasons for the HDVD800 producing rather smooth treble coupled with the HD800 is its rather high output impedance of roughly 50 Ohms. IIrc, a Sennheiser production manager said they tested out several lower and higher impedances and decided they liked 50 Ohms the best.
> Beyerdynamic's A1 has also got a quite high output impedance (but they did it to minimize differences in volume when connecting different headphones).


 

 What does the high impedance do with the HD800? Does produce some kind of bass boost since the impedance graph rises in the bass area?


----------



## Priidik

Fwiw some in ears (very low impedance) work great with the HDVA600.
 Sure enough most planar mag-s suck from it. But even then some havereported good synergy with LCD-s.


----------



## HiFiChris

@ubs28: Most likely yes.
  
 Only headphones with a flat impedance response, such as the LCD-X, Signature Pro or HE-6, would not experience any changes in tonality.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

ubs28 said:


> Why is that? Is it because of the high impedance?


 

 Yes.  As mentioned above, listening tests guided Sennheiser to set the HDVD800 output impedance to 43 ohms, which is great for the nominal 300 ohms input impedance (up to 600 ohms at some frequencies) of the Sennheiser HD 800 headphones (rule of 8 - headphone impedance to be at least 8x higher than amp output impedance).  However, for such headphones as Grados, which have a 32 ohm input impedance, you would do better with an amp of lower output impedance as well... 4 ohms or less.


----------



## maibuN

johnjen said:


> The ANAX mods can help with this quite a bit, especially v.2.
> 
> Also a 10-20 minute break can really be effective.
> It sort of 're-sets' and 'clears' the cumulative effects of Listener Fatigue Factor.
> ...


 
  
 Anax mod 2.0 and removing grilles helped me.
  
 But in the end it's still the hd800, listening is sometimes very interesting but also exhausting and not very emotional or fun.


----------



## roguegeek

Hola gentlemen. It's been a little while since I've been on this thread. Probably around 10 months or so. When I last left, I had my HD 800 paired with a Crack/Speedball and was on a journey to find a good SS amp. Life got in the way, as it always does, and nothing has changed, but I'm still enjoying the hell out of my cans. I'm still looking for that amp and my requirements haven't changed.
  

solid-state
no integrated DAC
single-ended headphone outputs and a preamp to run powered speakers
pairs exceptional with the HD 800: keep the signature neutral, maybe warm it up a tad, compliment the soundstage, separation, detail, and resolution
pairs well with other popular headphones and IEMs
≈$1500, but will go higher if the argument is made
optionally, balanced headphone outputs would be nice
  
 This was my original list back then. I've ruled out a couple since and have elevated some.
  

*AURALiC Taurus MKII*: $1899, ss, single-ended, balanced, RCA+balanced preamp
*Schiit Ragnarok*: $1499, ss, single-ended, balanced, RCA preamp, balanced preamp?
*Questyle CMA800R*: $1499, ss, single-ended (2), balanced, RCA preamp
*Senn HDVA 600*: $1499, ss, single-ended (2), balanced (2), balanced preamp?
*Lehmannaudio Linear SE*: ss, single-ended (2), RCA preamp
*Bryston BHA-1*: $1395, ss, single-ended, balanced (2), balanced preamp?
*Luxman P-1u*: ss, single-ended (2), RCA preamp
  
 The Taurus MKII is at the top based solely on objective functions available and the stellar reviews I've read here and from other sources. Looks like it hit all of my requirements and worked with with a ton of cans. So then onto the questions. Has there been any update since that time that I should know about in terms of the subject I'm tackling? I know there was talk about the Ragnarok and it looks very very interesting, but it wasn't widely available at the time I was looking. Function is definitely there, but how did that one go over with everyone? Should the Taurus MKII still be a top choice for me, considering what I'm looking for? Any other amps I should be looking at?
  
 Thanks all!


----------



## TonyNewman

roguegeek said:


> Hola gentlemen. It's been a little while since I've been on this thread. Probably around 10 months or so. When I last left, I had my HD 800 paired with a Crack/Speedball and was on a journey to find a good SS amp. Life got in the way, as it always does, and nothing has changed, but I'm still enjoying the hell out of my cans. I'm still looking for that amp and my requirements haven't changed.
> 
> 
> solid-state
> ...


 
  
 I own the Taurus and it is a good amp. Pairs well with the HD800 via balanced output - not so great single ended (I think its a power thing - not sure). Can't drive the HE6 properly, if that is a consideration. Drives anything else I have thrown at it very well.
  
 However, if your budget could stretch as far as the Simaudio 430HA you will be rewarded. It is a better amp and preamp, as it should be for close to double the price.


----------



## ezone2kil

*edited for double post*


----------



## ezone2kil

roguegeek said:


> Hola gentlemen. It's been a little while since I've been on this thread. Probably around 10 months or so. When I last left, I had my HD 800 paired with a Crack/Speedball and was on a journey to find a good SS amp. Life got in the way, as it always does, and nothing has changed, but I'm still enjoying the hell out of my cans. I'm still looking for that amp and my requirements haven't changed.
> 
> 
> solid-state
> ...


 
  
 Do consider the Audio GD Precision 2 too. It has most of what you need except for the IEM part (too much power).
  
 Here's a recent review of it:
 http://headmania.org/2014/12/01/audio-gd-precision-2-review/
 The Headphone output is exceptional and I am certainly more than happy with mine paired with the HD800


----------



## bearFNF

roguegeek said:


> *AURALiC Taurus MKII*: $1899, ss, single-ended, balanced, RCA+balanced preamp
> *Schiit Ragnarok*: $1499, ss, single-ended, balanced, RCA preamp, balanced preamp?
> *Questyle CMA800R*: $1499, ss, single-ended (2), balanced, RCA preamp
> *Senn HDVA 600*: $1499, ss, single-ended (2), balanced (2), balanced preamp?
> ...


 

 This will help you with Schiit Ragnarok question (oh and it is listed as $1699 on the Schiit site):

 I did get to audition it at CanJam and it does sound nice my HD800's.


----------



## naimless

roguegeek said:


> Hola gentlemen. It's been a little while since I've been on this thread. Probably around 10 months or so. When I last left, I had my HD 800 paired with a Crack/Speedball and was on a journey to find a good SS amp. Life got in the way, as it always does, and nothing has changed, but I'm still enjoying the hell out of my cans. I'm still looking for that amp and my requirements haven't changed.
> 
> 
> solid-state
> ...





Try the Violectric HPA V281.


----------



## reddog

The Ragnarok Is great in balanced headphone output, however I was not impressed with its single-ended headphone output. I would look for another amp if you only prefer a single-ended headphone output.


----------



## Chodi

roguegeek said:


> Hola gentlemen. It's been a little while since I've been on this thread. Probably around 10 months or so. When I last left, I had my HD 800 paired with a Crack/Speedball and was on a journey to find a good SS amp. Life got in the way, as it always does, and nothing has changed, but I'm still enjoying the hell out of my cans. I'm still looking for that amp and my requirements haven't changed.
> 
> 
> solid-state
> ...


 
 The Taurus is a stunning amp but there are things to consider among your choices. I use the Taurus extensively with the HD800 and I find that it is best to turn down the digital volume -6db in my software (HQPlayer in my case) in order to get better control of the volume pot. The Taurus packs a great deal of power, particularly from the balanced output and the HD800 is rather sensitive. If you don't want to set your digital software for a -6bd output from your computer, then you will find your volume knob around 9 o'clock for comfortable listening. I also use the Taurus with iem's and it is silent, black background but it is necessary to set the digital volume control in my software for -6bd or the pot on the Taurus simply does not have enough room to adjust. The Taurus is a very high gain amp meant to drive difficult ortho's although it is not really the best solution for the HE6 it will drive all others with ease. The sound with the Taurus is very hard to beat even at much higher price points. I consider it an end game solid state amp.


----------



## Dopaminer

The King of Solid State Headphone Amps, in my opinion, is the fully balanced Luxman P700u.  Fabulous with the HD800.   
  
 A great example of the Japanese just taking things too far:


----------



## longbowbbs

dopaminer said:


> The King of Solid State Headphone Amps, in my opinion, is the fully balanced Luxman P700u.  Fabulous with the HD800.
> 
> A great example of the Japanese just taking things too far:


 
 I have been a fan of Luxman for over 35 years. Amazing build quality!


----------



## johnjen

roguegeek said:


> Hola gentlemen. It's been a little while since I've been on this thread. Probably around 10 months or so. When I last left, I had my HD 800 paired with a Crack/Speedball and was on a journey to find a good SS amp. Life got in the way, as it always does, and nothing has changed, but I'm still enjoying the hell out of my cans. I'm still looking for that amp and my requirements haven't changed.
> 
> 
> solid-state
> ...


 
 One thing to take into account is that the price of The Rok is considerably less for the same amount of techno-marvelousness as other amps due to their sales and distribution system (direct sales only) approach.
  
 Of course being a tad biased (owning The Rok) and not having spent any time with the other candidates on your list that does tend to skew my advice.
  
 However if you do go with The Rok know that it only really 'sings' when driving a balanced set of HP's & speakers.
 The input (SE or Bal) probably doesn't matter much (but I can't really say one way or the other because I only run a full balanced set up).
 But using the balanced output is the only real way to truly hear what this amp can do.
  
 It reminds me of the smoke theory of electronics.
  
 When the smoke escapes the device from whence it came it has now become but a shadow of its former self…
 This also applies to the non-balanced headphone (1/4" jack) in that it the 'magic' never really gets thru to that output…
 So include whatever is necessary in order to run balanced HP's if you do choose The Rok.
  
 JJ


----------



## Mach3

johnjen said:


> One thing to take into account is that the price of The Rok is considerably less for the same amount of techno-marvelousness as other amps due to their sales and distribution system (direct sales only) approach.
> 
> Of course being a tad biased (owning The Rok) and not having spent any time with the other candidates on your list that does tend to skew my advice.
> 
> ...


 
Cant remember which thread I read, but I remember someone reviewing top amp for the HD800 and the out come was Rog > GSX MKII > Luxman p700p


----------



## johnjen

mach3 said:


> Cant remember which thread I read, but I remember someone reviewing top amp for the HD800 and the out come was Rog > GSX MKII > Luxman p700p


 
 The Rok certainly has it's shortcomings, but SQ isn't one of them.
  
 As for those other amps I can't really say, (having never listened to them) but I can say The Rok is a headphone amp unlike any other.
  
 It will either 'measure up' to one's requirements, or not.
  
 But like any audiophool device it isn't meant to provde all of the 'features' any and everyone wants.
 Instead it is an optimal example of how to take a specific design and maximize it's operation, with the resultant benefit that it kicks the highest rung of headphone amps in the butt, in numerous ways.
  
 Some may desire these attributes, while others may not.
  
 Choices, choices…
  
 JJ


----------



## lukeap69

Here's the review of the ROK comparing with GS-X and Black Diamond

http://www.head-fi.org/t/740568/top-shelf-solid-state-with-hd800s


----------



## guido

roguegeek said:


> Hola gentlemen. It's been a little while since I've been on this thread. Probably around 10 months or so. When I last left, I had my HD 800 paired with a Crack/Speedball and was on a journey to find a good SS amp. Life got in the way, as it always does, and nothing has changed, but I'm still enjoying the hell out of my cans. I'm still looking for that amp and my requirements haven't changed.
> 
> 
> solid-state
> ...


 

 You definitely need to include the B.M.C Puredac to your list!


----------



## SteveM324

roguegeek said:


> Hola gentlemen. It's been a little while since I've been on this thread. Probably around 10 months or so. When I last left, I had my HD 800 paired with a Crack/Speedball and was on a journey to find a good SS amp. Life got in the way, as it always does, and nothing has changed, but I'm still enjoying the hell out of my cans. I'm still looking for that amp and my requirements haven't changed.
> 
> 
> solid-state
> ...



I would add the Audio GD Master 9 to your list. The M9 is a fully balanced headphone amp and preamp with no integrated DAC. Cost is $1550 plus shipping. Outputs 9 watts of full class A power into 40 ohms. It has balanced and SE preamp outputs. It mates up very well with my HD800 with Zeus 19 OCC Cu hardwired cable and it drives planars very well too such as the HE6 and LCD X. The M9 is dead silent (no hiss) with low impedance high sensitivity headphones like the Denon D7000. It comes with a nice remote as well.


----------



## lukeap69

stevem324 said:


> I would add the Audio GD Master 9 to your list. The M9 is a fully balanced headphone amp and preamp with no integrated DAC. Cost is $1550 plus shipping. Outputs 9 watts of full class A power into 40 ohms. It has balanced and SE preamp outputs. It mates up very well with my HD800 with Zeus 19 OCC Cu hardwired cable and it drives planars very well too such as the HE6 and LCD X. The M9 is dead silent (no hiss) with low impedance high sensitivity headphones like the Denon D7000. It comes with a nice remote as well.




Master 9 is really an excellent amp. Tried it with my HD800 and I was blown away by it the same way I was blown away by Ragnarok.

If you are in the US though, ROK may prove to be cheaper if you consider the shipping, paypal fees, etc for Audio-gd amp.


----------



## punit

lukeap69 said:


> Master 9 is really an excellent amp. Tried it with my HD800 and I was blown away by it the same way I was blown away by Ragnarok.


 

 Yeah, both are end game SS amps for HD 800.


----------



## SteveM324

lukeap69 said:


> Master 9 is really an excellent amp. Tried it with my HD800 and I was blown away by it the same way I was blown away by Ragnarok.
> 
> If you are in the US though, ROK may prove to be cheaper if you consider the shipping, paypal fees, etc for Audio-gd amp.




I paid $1696 USD including shipping and duties to the USA. I bought my M9 when Audio GD was offering a 5% discount. I think Roguegeek lives in California so his shipping cost might be less than mine.


----------



## preproman

Plus the Master 9 comes with a remote.  If that's of any importance.


----------



## lukeap69

stevem324 said:


> I paid $1696 USD including shipping and duties to the USA. I bought my M9 when Audio GD was offering a 5% discount. I think Roguegeek lives in California so his shipping cost might be less than mine.




That's very good price,


----------



## lukeap69

preproman said:


> Plus the Master 9 comes with a remote.  If that's of any importance.




Yeah, the remote that plagued the Rag/Yggy thread.


----------



## lukeap69

punit said:


> Yeah, both are end game SS amps for HD 800.




With all the TOTL amps and cans at your disposal, I don't think there is anything that will blow you away anymore.


----------



## icebear

On a different note ... after a good year with the HD800 I replaced the ear pads for the first time.
 I checked online how to get the old one off and it worked OK.
 You need to force your fingers between the pads and the frame quite a bit and of course you don't want to damage anything, so it's a bit finicky.
  
 But once the old pads are off the real fun starts...
 I got the new pads directly from Sennheiser. The plastic foil covering the snap on frame of the new pads is quite stiff, so trying the snap the pads back on the frame and work your way all around without having them snap out on the other end again turned out to be a real challenge for my patience 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Finally I put the headphone with the pad loosely in position with the driver facing down on the edge of the table, the second cup below the table. Then putting pressure on the frame and working my way around to snap the pad frame into position. What a pain in the ...


----------



## Sweetmeat

A simple question for some HD800 owners out there: do these phones break a lot?
  
 This has recently become an important quality for me as my LCD3s go back into the shop for the second time.


----------



## bearFNF

icebear said:


> On a different note ... after a good year with the HD800 I replaced the ear pads for the first time.
> I checked online how to get the old one off and it worked OK.
> You need to force your fingers between the pads and the frame quite a bit and of course you don't want to damage anything, so it's a bit finicky.
> 
> ...


 
 Did you finally get them on?  I just bought new pads and have been procrastinating putting them on...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


sweetmeat said:


> A simple question for some HD800 owners out there: do these phones break a lot?
> 
> This has recently become an important quality for me as my LCD3s go back into the shop for the second time.


 
 Not that I have seen, have had mine for over two years and no issues.


----------



## longbowbbs

sweetmeat said:


> A simple question for some HD800 owners out there: do these phones break a lot?
> 
> This has recently become an important quality for me as my LCD3s go back into the shop for the second time.


 
 I frequently travel with mine. Obviously I treat them well, but they have not had a problem in a couple of years of being on the road.


----------



## maibuN

guido said:


> You definitely need to include the B.M.C Puredac to your list!


 
  
 I can't imagine it pairs very well with the hd800 but would appreciate to read some impressions.


----------



## guido

maibun said:


> I can't imagine it pairs very well with the hd800 but would appreciate to read some impressions.


 
  
 And why would you imagine that?
  
 Read some reviews...plenty available online


----------



## maibuN

I sometimes read Sabre Chips wouldn't be good with hd800.


----------



## icebear

bearfnf said:


> *Did you finally get them on?*  I just bought new pads and have been procrastinating putting them on...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, finally I succeeded. Usually I am pretty patient when it come to get things fixed. This job was really stretching it, literally 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 It's all depending on the strength/thickness of the foil. The "anchors" of the pad frame that need to snap into place in the cup frame are covered by this foil, you are not cutting it. Pressure will be needed to stretch that foil to allow getting them into place. Maybe warming the pad foil with a hair drier to soften it a bit might be a good idea.


----------



## Dragonsan

Just for kicks, I paired the Dragonfly 1.2 with the HD800s. I'm surprised that this AMP/DAC, despite its diminutive size, can actually power the HD800s (and quite decently, at that). o.O


----------



## NotaLefty

I'm going to be ditching the HD800's....at least for a while. I'm ready to try Stax!


----------



## maibuN

dragonsan said:


> Just for kicks, I paired the Dragonfly 1.2 with the HD800s. I'm surprised that this AMP/DAC, despite its diminutive size, can actually power the HD800s (and quite decently, at that). o.O


 

 I also used a dragonfly with hd800 for some time. It's quite good and I think differences between amps/dacs with hd800 are overrated. But I have to admit, unfortunately DF can't be used with BA In Ears because because it has extreme hiss.


----------



## Zoom25

So far what's the smallest case you guys have come across for HD800? Not looking for military grade Pelican grade material. Just something light and thin that the HD800 goes inside and offers some isolation from putting it inside a backpack with other lightweight stuff. The cheaper the better.


----------



## Mach3

lukeap69 said:


> Master 9 is really an excellent amp. Tried it with my HD800 and I was blown away by it the same way I was blown away by Ragnarok.
> 
> If you are in the US though, ROK may prove to be cheaper if you consider the shipping, paypal fees, etc for Audio-gd amp.




Kevin Gilmore a well respected amp designer, mentioned how he was confused Kingwa was making money on the M9.
Because he estimated it would cost him over 2k just in parts/components let alone put it all together in a nice looking case.
So I'm not surprised your comment. Would be great for someone who has both to do a head to head comparison between the m9 and the Rog.

For the non DIY, Kevin Gilmore designed the BHSE, the GSX MKII is base off his balance Dynalo design. The balance Dynahi aka Dynamite is a pimped up version with higher power output for high impedance cans.


----------



## pearljam50000

You just made feel alot better about the only amp\dac i can afford, the GeekOut.
 Thanks.

 Quote: 





dragonsan said:


> Just for kicks, I paired the Dragonfly 1.2 with the HD800s. I'm surprised that this AMP/DAC, despite its diminutive size, can actually power the HD800s (and quite decently, at that). o.O


 
  
  


maibun said:


> I also used a dragonfly with hd800 for some time. It's quite good and I think differences between amps/dacs with hd800 are overrated. But I have to admit, unfortunately DF can't be used with BA In Ears because because it has extreme hiss.


----------



## ezone2kil

mach3 said:


> Kevin Gilmore a well respected amp designer, mentioned how he was confused Kingwa was making money on the M9.
> Because he estimated it would cost him over 2k just in parts/components let alone put it all together in a nice looking case.
> So I'm not surprised your comment. Would be great for someone who has both to do a head to head comparison between the m9 and the Rog.
> 
> For the non DIY, Kevin Gilmore designed the BHSE, the GSX MKII is base off his balance Dynalo design. The balance Dynahi aka Dynamite is a pimped up version with higher power output for high impedance cans.


 

 Funny how a lot of Audio GD reviews have that mentioned; this $xxxx amp is as good as *insert another amp sold for much more $$$*
 The review for the Precision 2 that I'm using had this:
  
 "Ok, let’s forget that *Precision 2* is a speaker amplifier for the moment, and a great speaker amplifier from what I’ve seen until now. So we would have a 1000 $ headphone amplifier. I don’t know any other headphone amplifier at that price to beat it for that matter, if you get my point. Adding the very good speaker amplifier, it makes this product to have one of the best perfomance / price ratio I’ve ever seen in this market."
  
 Sometimes I regret jumping straight into this hobby with the HD800 and Precision 2. Quite a few people said that the journey is part of the fun and I simply have no way to compare what I have now to other setups. The only thing clearly better would be a Stax setup I suppose.


----------



## bearFNF

zoom25 said:


> So far what's the smallest case you guys have come across for HD800? Not looking for military grade Pelican grade material. Just something light and thin that the HD800 goes inside and offers some isolation from putting it inside a backpack with other lightweight stuff. The cheaper the better.


 

 I use this one:
 Hippo case large from Jaben.


----------



## roguegeek

tonynewman said:


> I own the Taurus and it is a good amp. Pairs well with the HD800 via balanced output - not so great single ended (I think its a power thing - not sure). Can't drive the HE6 properly, if that is a consideration. Drives anything else I have thrown at it very well.


 
 That's strange. IF mentions that they made the HE6, a can I do have interest in, sing.
  


tonynewman said:


> However, if your budget could stretch as far as the Simaudio 430HA you will be rewarded. It is a better amp and preamp, as it should be for close to double the price.


 
 A little out of my price range, but thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## roguegeek

ezone2kil said:


> Do consider the Audio GD Precision 2 too. It has most of what you need except for the IEM part (too much power).
> 
> Here's a recent review of it:
> http://headmania.org/2014/12/01/audio-gd-precision-2-review/
> The Headphone output is exceptional and I am certainly more than happy with mine paired with the HD800


 


naimless said:


> Try the Violectric HPA V281.


 
  
 Thanks. Will definitely take a look at the two.


----------



## roguegeek

bearfnf said:


> This will help you with Schiit Ragnarok question (oh and it is listed as $1699 on the Schiit site):
> 
> I did get to audition it at CanJam and it does sound nice my HD800's.


 


reddog said:


> The Ragnarok Is great in balanced headphone output, however I was not impressed with its single-ended headphone output. I would look for another amp if you only prefer a single-ended headphone output.


 
  
 Good feedback. Jude's comments are also helping push me in that direction right now as well.


----------



## roguegeek

dopaminer said:


> The King of Solid State Headphone Amps, in my opinion, is the fully balanced Luxman P700u.  Fabulous with the HD800.
> 
> A great example of the Japanese just taking things too far:


 

 Looks interesting. Can't seem to find a price, so that's a little off-putting. Any idea?


----------



## zilch0md

preproman said:


> Plus the Master 9 comes with a remote.  If that's of any importance.


 
  
 Plus the Master 9 comes with zero feedback (which the HD800 loves...)
  
  Quoting http://www.audio-gd.com/Master/Master-9/Master-9EN.htm


> The ACSS is a non-feedback technology made with discrete amplifiers. Most people know the global feedback design can offer better specs in test measurements, and non-feedback can't do well in test measurements but can offer better sound for the human's ears. Here is a conflict of the classic circuits. But the ACSS opens a new field, it can offer a least coloration sound which is more neutral with very low distortion and high linearity. So it can retain the dynamics, detail and neutral sound *but not sound bright or harsh.*


----------



## roguegeek

Yeah, the more I read, the more I think it's just between the Ragnarok and Taurus MKII. It's strange no one is bringing up the CMA800R. That was an amp that was blowing up in this thread 10 months ago. I suppose the excitement has quelled.


----------



## TonyNewman

roguegeek said:


> That's strange. IF mentions that they made the HE6, a can I do have interest in, sing.


 
  
 I used to think that about the Taurus also. Then I got the WA5 and heard the HE6 from the K1K output. That changed my HeadFi world.
  
 The Taurus will make music from the HE6, but you are getting a poor imitation of what the HE6 is capable of. The sound is flat and the bass weak *when compared to what the WA5, or the 430HA, can deliver. *
  
 I have driven the HE6 from the speaker taps of a 150W power amp - and from that I can only conclude that the WA5 and 430HA both take the HE6 about as far as it can go as far as power requirements are concerned. There might be a slight increase in dynamics and bass response from the power amp, but it is so small as to be negligable - and so tiny I am still not convinced it isn't just happening inside my head.
  
 The Taurus doesn't take the HE6 close to the limit of its capabilities. The 430HA and WA5 do. I own all three and am absolutely convinced of this from many hours of listening.


----------



## knowhatimean

roguegeek said:


> Yeah, the more I read, the more I think it's just between the Ragnarok and Taurus MKII. It's strange no one is bringing up the CMA800R. That was an amp that was blowing up in this thread 10 months ago. I suppose the excitement has quelled.


 
 I'm leaving the Questyle at the top of my list for a couple of reasons.
  
 One it was designed specifically around the HD800 (I haven't touched my HE-6s in several weeks , I'm absolutely positive they would simply be way too much work (for myself) to modify them to the point of where I feel I've been able to bring the HD800 to in terms of "Transparency" because I'm not modifying the HD800s"driver". On the HE-6 I would have to mod the "drivers" a bit & the available sub bass doesn't makeup for the HD800 (now superior in"all" dimensions) Orchestral "Soundstage". The HD800 work completely for any music that "I" listen to very well with a "mediocre"headphone amp. I'm pretty sure the HD800 used in 6moons review had the typical stock colorations. So I'm already ahead of the game there in that I'm sure the Questyle had to work harder with those phones.
  
 The CMA800r was designed to work well with the HD800  as a "Stereo" headphone amp in a "SE" output mode (although I will be feeding it a Balanced signal from my DAC). I'm really not too concerned about running my HD800 "balanced" as I really haven't needed to run it that way so far. .
  
 I'm not looking to "fix" the HD800 characteristics as they've been falling beautifully into place , so much as to see how much "more" I
 can hear from them & still sounding very nice with a "so - so" headphone amp ! The amp not working with other headphones is not even a "blip on my radar"; It doesn't have to !
 .
 YMMV
 ~ steve


----------



## erikfreedom

I am getting a modwright instruments ls 100 preamp with optional dac for my hd 800. i had the chance to compare it to a fully upgraded woo audio wa5 le and it was a tie. the ls 100 is a tube preamp with a very good headamp. even more powerful than the wa5 le. like the wa5 le it is single ended. with the optional dac your are at 4500 bucks us. in Canada it is gonna hit me hard. modwright are preparing a better dac option for this preamp that gonna cost 3000. a tube dac. and separated. or if you got enough cash you can always get the modwright elyse dac to go with your ls 100. the modwright ls 100 is a 4500 headphone amp disguised as a preamp. I should have mine by the end of march. hopefully. I buy it exclusively for my hd 800. I miss the sound of tubes. it's been 2 years with only ss amps. with hd 800.


----------



## roguegeek

knowhatimean said:


> I'm leaving the Questyle at the top of my list for a couple of reasons.
> 
> One it was designed specifically around the HD800 (I haven't touched my HE-6s in several weeks , I'm absolutely positive they would simply be way too much work (for myself) to modify them to the point of where I feel I've been able to bring the HD800 to in terms of "Transparency" because I'm not modifying the HD800s"driver". On the HE-6 I would have to mod the "drivers" a bit & the available sub bass doesn't makeup for the HD800 (now superior in"all" dimensions) Orchestral "Soundstage". The HD800 work completely for any music that "I" listen to very well with a "mediocre"headphone amp. I'm pretty sure the HD800 used in their review had the typical stock colorations. So I'm already ahead of the game there in that I'm sure the Questyle had to work harder with those phones.
> 
> ...


 

 That's all very understandable. For me, it's a must to work extremely well with the HD 800 (something I'm sure the CMA800R does) and also needs to work relatively well with potential future cans. Obviously, I can't guarantee something like that, but I definitely want to stay away from the amps that are so incredibly specific to the HD 800 that they do absolutely nothing for anything else. I'm not sure which category the CMA800R falls into yet, so maybe it's time to go into that amp-specific thread to get some answers.


----------



## maibuN

roguegeek said:


> Yeah, the more I read, the more I think it's just between the Ragnarok and Taurus MKII. It's strange no one is bringing up the CMA800R. That was an amp that was blowing up in this thread 10 months ago. I suppose the excitement has quelled.


 

 Yeah, the more I read, the more I think it's just about getting the most expensive amp on the market. Of course the most expensive one is the best one. Just don't judge by sound quality but by price and everything is fine with HD800s.


----------



## roguegeek

maibun said:


> Yeah, the more I read, the more I think it's just about getting the most expensive amp on the market. Of course the most expensive one is the best one. Just don't judge by sound quality but by price and everything is fine with HD800s.:rolleyes:



Can't tell if you're serious or attempting to troll.


----------



## knowhatimean

roguegeek said:


> maibun said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, the more I read, the more I think it's just about getting the most expensive amp on the market. Of course the most expensive one is the best one. Just don't judge by sound quality but by price and everything is fine with HD800s.
> ...


 
 You hadn't considered spending any time even thinking about this, had you ? He he he.....
  
 (I find it much easier to not try to "translate the intent" of postings & take them at "face value" ; "Deeper meaning" may be beyond the scope of the person posting the message !!! ) (The depth of meaning of most things you read online goes no deeper than the depth of the screen you've read it on...  Hey I like that ! I'll have to add that to my book of "Semi - Useful Advice")
  
 ~steve


----------



## roguegeek

It's 4:14 in the morning. The only thing I should be deep into is sleep.


----------



## wink

or trouble.....


----------



## Justin_Time

tonynewman said:


> I used to think that about the Taurus also. Then I got the WA5 and heard the HE6 from the K1K output. That changed my HeadFi world.
> 
> The Taurus will make music from the HE6, but you are getting a poor imitation of what the HE6 is capable of. The sound is flat and the bass weak *when compared to what the WA5, or the 430HA, can deliver.*
> 
> ...




I have yet to hear the 430HA but I am in good agreement with you regarding the Woo WA5.

You are also correct regarding additional power. From testing about a dozen or so amps, I believe the optimal power for the HE-6 Is around 5-10 watts into 50 ohms and the Woo WA5 is at the low end of that range. So a little more power would be beneficial but I think looking for that extra power with most mass-produced speaker amps is misguided. In order to drive inefficient speakers and also satisfying the consumers' obsession with specs in the 70s to the 90s, many of them sacrificed the sound quality by opting for mostly class AB, complex designs, using a large number of low-quality transistors and parts, and huge negative feedback to achieve good looking but not so good sounding specs (low THD at the expense of other types of distorsions). A more rewarding effort would be toward smaller power (35-75 watts into 8 ohms), smaller-production amps from a few select companies dedicated to producing the best possible sound using simple, class-A designs and hig-quality parts.

Coincidentally but not entirely unexpectedly, these moderately powered, class-A amps, just like the Woo WA5, sound fantastic with the HD-800 as well because of the superb quality of their sound at the first watt. What it adds, compared to typical, lower-powered, but otherwise excellent HeadAmps, is bass control and dynamic range. 

I get a chance to listen to the HD-800 with a few of these amps--namely the First Watts M2 and J2, and the Pass Aleph 0s and 3. They opens my eyes (ears?) on what a great-sounding and powerful amp can do with not just the HE-6, but also the HD-800.


----------



## TonyNewman

justin_time said:


> ...
> I get a chance to listen to the HD-800 with a few of these amps--namely the First Watts M2 and J2, and the Pass Aleph 0s and 3. They opens my eyes (ears?) on what a great-sounding and powerful amp can do with not just the HE-6, but also the HD-800.


 
  
 Both the WA5 and 430HA throw around 8W into 50 ohm. That's a lot of juice for a headphone.
  
 Totally on board with the HD800 benefiting from the extra juice also. This headphone scales beyond my wildest expectations when given a ton of power.
  
 Balanced output from the 430HA is stunning. Perhaps even better is using the speaker taps of the WA5 with the HiFiMan adapter box. Either lifts the HD800 into another class - the sound is almost "planar-like" if that makes any sense. It certainly takes it beyond what the HPH output on the front panel of the WA5 can do.
  
 Just a personal preference - to my ears a well driven + modded HE6 (or HD800) beats anything else I have heard, including LCD-X/3C/3F. YMMV


----------



## Justin_Time

tonynewman said:


> Both the WA5 and 430HA throw around 8W into 50 ohm. That's a lot of juice for a headphone.
> 
> Totally on board with the HD800 benefiting from the extra juice also. This headphone scales beyond my wildest expectations when given a ton of power.
> 
> ...



 


Tony,

Thanks for the comments.

It looks like I have to find a way to listen to the SimmAudio Moon 430HA. Honestly, I am not t huge proponent of speaker amps: I tried them because I already have them at hand.All that speker cables and adaptor boxes are a pain...


----------



## TonyNewman

justin_time said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > Both the WA5 and 430HA throw around 8W into 50 ohm. That's a lot of juice for a headphone.
> ...


 
  
 I think the speaker amps have their place - they can be very cost effective to drive the HE6.
  
 The headphone amps that pack the cajones to drive the HE6 properly (power + SQ) are relatively few and usually expensive.
  
 I like the high end + powerful headphone amps for the flexibility + SQ they offer. 430HA and WA5 can drive _*anything *_out there, and drive it very well with gorgeous sound. I like that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The 430HA is well worth an audition. I love mine as both a headamp and a preamp. The 430HA thread might be worth a look if you haven't already given it a browse.


----------



## rawrster

They definitely are very cost effective. When I had the he6 I had the v200 which did not drive them well. I also had a Mjolnir which was much better but not quite there and then I bought a $150 or so speaker amp that drove them much better. I have heard them through some good speaker amps and they do sound better but at the cost of the speaker amp it really is a bargain 

I wouldn't want to use a speaker amp on any other headphone however.


----------



## Dragonsan

Does anyone here own the K3003s? How well do they stack up against the HD800s?


----------



## yates7592

Does anybody have any experience on how Sim Moon HA430 compares to HDVA600 (or HDVD800) when paired with HD800. I see the HA430 puts out about >33% more power than HDVA600 (667mW vs 480mW into 600 ohms). I have HDVA600 and am very happy with it but would upgrade in a shot if the HA430 gave me a measurably better sound quality experience.


----------



## Mach3

yates7592 said:


> Does anybody have any experience on how Sim Moon HA430 compares to HDVA600 (or HDVD800) when paired with HD800. I see the HA430 puts out about >33% more power than HDVA600 (667mW vs 480mW into 600 ohms). I have HDVA600 and am very happy with it but would upgrade in a shot if the HA430 gave me a measurably better sound quality experience.



Last time I checked, the HD800 are 300 ohm


----------



## lin0003

mach3 said:


> Last time I checked, the HD800 are 300 ohm


 
 Yeah, the 800s are definitely 300 ohm.


----------



## pearljam50000

What would be a major upgrade from the HD800?


----------



## yates7592

lin0003 said:


> Yeah, the 800s are definitely 300 ohm.


 

 Yes they are 'rated' at 300 ohm, but i thought lots of measurements show they extend to around 700 ohms in some frequencies?
  
 Anyway, any observations on HA430 paired with HD800?


----------



## HiFiChris

Actually 350 Ohms and more (http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf).


----------



## Takeanidea

dragonsan said:


> Does anyone here own the K3003s? How well do they stack up against the HD800s?


 

 I don't own the AKG's but I have listened to them and own the HD800s. The K3003s are top tier EIMs no doubt whatsoever. Bass is punchy treble is crisp separation is really good. But they don't have the spaciousness of the HD800s the accuracy of the Senns nor the comfort. 
 If we are talking about sound quality the HD800s are vastly better. 
 The HD800s will not work well where the K3003s work , which is without amping and outdoors


----------



## Priidik

pearljam50000 said:


> What would be a major upgrade from the HD800?


 
 Where do you get these questions?
  
 Ath m50 has more bass.


----------



## Bartez75

Innerfidelity says:
  
_Volts RMS required to reach 90dB SPL:          0.242 Vrms_
_Impedance @ 1kHz:                                     361 Ohms_
_Power Needed for 90d BSPL:                         0.16 mW_
_Broadband Isolation in dB (100Hz to 10kHz):  -3 dBr_
  
 What is SPL and BSPL ?


----------



## zilch0md

bartez75 said:


> Innerfidelity says:
> 
> _Volts RMS required to reach 90dB SPL:          0.242 Vrms_
> _Impedance @ 1kHz:                                     361 Ohms_
> ...




"90d BSPL" is a typo. It should read: "90dB SPL"

SPL means Sound Pressure Level (as measured at your ears, in this context).


----------



## Bartez75

zilch0md said:


> "90d BSPL" is a typo. It should read: "90dB SPL"
> 
> SPL means Sound Pressure Level (as measured at your ears, in this context).


 

 Can you also explain how this is related to VRMS (if it is related)?


----------



## RRod

bartez75 said:


> Can you also explain how this is related to VRMS (if it is related)?


 
  
 In this example:
 0.16mW = (0.242V^2)/361Ω
  
 So to reach 90dB SPL with these headphones, you need 0.242 volts or, equivalently, 0.16 milliwatts.


----------



## Bartez75

rrod said:


> In this example:
> 0.16mW = (0.242V^2)/361Ω
> 
> So to reach 90dB SPL with these headphones, you need 0.242 volts or, equivalently, 0.16 milliwatts.


 

 Thank you.


----------



## zilch0md

> Volts RMS required to reach 90dB SPL: 0.242 Vrms




It's a measure of the the headphone's sensitivity and it's useful only in the context of comparing this headphone's spec to a similar spec for another headphone. The more voltage required to reach a "loudness" of 90 decibels, the less efficient the headphone.

In my opinion, this specification tells us nothing about how much power is needed to maximize the performance of a given headphone. In other words, forget about this spec. 

I can plug my relatively inefficient Audeze LCD-2 into a tiny Sansa Clip+ DAP and turn up the volume until it's too loud for my ears to tolerate for long. But the LCD-2 will sound horrible even if I turn the volume down to comfortable levels, because despite the Sansa Clip's amp having enough power to play "loudly," it doesn't have anywhere near enough power to tightly control the moving parts of the headphone's drivers. The bass and even the mids sound woolly and lack detail. It's not until an amp offers at least about 750mW rms into 50-Ohms that the LCD-2 begins to sound as good as it can, despite the fact that the much less powerful Sansa Clip+ can play louder than I would ever want, with only about 35mW rms into 50-Ohms.

The same is true for the HD800 - it scales well to more power than the measured minimum required to achieve 90dB, but in my experience, the HD800 reaches its full potential on less power than the LCD-2. 

The question becomes: Are you only interested in getting an amp that will play the HD800 loud enough, or do you want an amp that has enough power to deliver the bass control, dynamics, and extension that allow the HD800 to be all it can be? (And power isn't the only factor to be considered when selecting an amp for the HD800.)


----------



## Bartez75

zilch0md said:


> ....
> 
> 
> The question becomes: Are you only interested in getting an amp that will play the HD800 loud enough, or do you want an amp that has enough power to deliver the bass control, dynamics, and extension that allow the HD800 to be all it can be? (And power isn't the only factor to be considered when selecting an amp for the HD800.)


 
 I guess the second one. Thanks for the explanation. Currently I'm having Luxman p-200. It is probably not the last word in the amping.


----------



## zilch0md

Oh, I'm sorry. My question was rhetorical - I was only trying to emphasize that the specification of how much power is necessary to achieve 90dB SPL isn't all that valuable when using headphones that improve with more power at any desired listening level.  
  
 I would pay more attention to that spec if selecting an IEM or headphone for portable use with an underpowered DAP, like the Sony NWZ-A17, which offers only 10mW peak per channel into 16-Ohms (or roughly 7.2 mW rms into 16-Ohms).  With really weak DAPs, the likes of which Sony makes, when you want to keep everything small and lightweight, without carrying a portable external amp, the sensitivity measurements for an IEM or headphone can become very critical.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

dragonsan said:


> Does anyone here own the K3003s? How well do they stack up against the HD800s?



I have both. Like the HD 800s, the AKG K3003 are anything and everything its headphone type can be (over-ear for HD 800; universal fit IEM for the AKG K3003). After getting my 3003, I sold all my other IEMs except for a new Jaybirds Bluebuds X, which I have because it is bluetooth.

Both the HD 800 and the K3003 are revealing, fast, analytical, and provide good clear but not head0-throbbing bass. 

While it is among the test of the universal-fit IEMs (along with the Sennheiser IE 800 and Shure SE846), it cannot provide the surround and sound stage of the HD 800. However, it can also run very well without fussy amplification (unlike the HD 800), and indeed sounds great straight out of an iphone 5 or iPod touch.


----------



## nephilim32

justin_time said:


> Get the Stax 007/009! If you like the HD-800, chances are you will like the Stax.
> 
> They are so good you'll feel like walking on air...actually, you are literally floating without the heavy burden of $5,000 weighting you down.
> 
> When I started to dabble in High-End Audio, the Stax were like mythical creatures that you only heard about but never saw; they were so ridiculously expensive nobody you knew owned a pair. Now, the price of everything are so inflated, the Stax have become merely expensive but almost affordable...







I think the chances are that I wil love the 009's. no question or doubt in my mind; however it is quite a commitment financially but a worthy goal to shoot for. Seems like almost an endgame in the headphone world. The amp and possible headphone cable upgrade for the stax will be huge money as well. All in all, I'd be expecting to probably spend a good 11 to 12 grand to run the stax properly. I just finished building a 6700$ system for my 800's and I am extremely pleased with my system's synergy. The stax investment will have to wait for quite a while, but I really hope to one day do it.


----------



## nephilim32

justin_time said:


> Good Morning Nephilim32
> 
> The Anaxilus initial modification entails adding a felt ring on the metal periphery of the driver. Later, some also added a foam liner on the metal surface beyond the immediate periphery of the drivers. Removing the grill cloth--may be this is the "inner foam pad" you are referring to as the HD-800 has no foam pad--is optional as it does not make a large sonic difference. I left it in as it keeps the dust out.
> 
> ...




Good afternoon, mr. Justin. 

You are right. It is of course more of a cloth that encases the middle of the headphone driver. If it were foam there that would be trouble! Lol! Anyhow, I've looked into it and at the moment I just don't have the heart to do it. I just can't. I love what I have set up right now, and I feel anymore added 'warmth' to my sound chain will colour or mess with the overall integrity and character that my 800's have. I kind of feel like this 'mod' would somehow make 1000 Germans cry in unison at the Sennheiser factory if they all were to find out what I had done. Lol. 

I really feel my DAC negates the need to do something like this. I tried listening with no DAC in my sound chain and it was way too bright and crispy on the highs especially. 

Great DACS absolutely rule. Save you some added stress and tinkering methinks. 

Talk soon my friend. Thanks for your input.


----------



## Justin_Time

nephilim32 said:


> Good afternoon, mr. Justin.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


That cloth is what I called the grill cloth. It is a very transparent material sonically and is there only to keep the dust out. Once you pull that out, it becomes immediately clear what you need to do.

The Anaxilus modification is the easiest of all the mods for top headphones and is not scary at all once you get started. And, no, I do not think you will have a single German screaming at you because all you do is taking the nasty sibilance and hardness out of the sound. This is by far the most effective way of improving--not fundamentally changing--the sound of the HD-800. It is more effective and far less expensive than changing DACs and amps. 

You can do it!


----------



## knowhatimean

I believe that Sennheiser calls this piece of "material" the"micro-mesh screen" & if your impression is that it only there to cover
 up the driver (think of the "grilles" on loudspeaker; but some of those actually do affect the sound) & do ...well...nothing except
 what I've already said !
  
 When you apply the "Anax" mods (& others) you are actually just "voicing" them. Sennheiser wanted these headphones to sound
 "Exciting" to anyone who will be using them. The closer you get to using the HD800s with similarly priced equipment,the more the
 "boost" Sennheiser gave them (through minimal damping & a few headphone design features to "add resonance" to whatever you're listening to) makes itself "evident".(Why someone who wouldn't be listening to fairly "good" equipment already, would spend $1500 on a set of headphones is beyond me !!!)
  
 The funny thing is the "return" that you can get from attempting to mod the HD800 can be "far" greater than what most people would care to believe. What cracks me up is the willingness of people to  change equipment that they were happy with before they were using the 800s.
  
  
 Why would you assume the "Message" is at fault for the inability of the "Messenger" to deliver it more accurately. A lot of people
 have it backwards in what they attempt to "fix" first. (Let's see: I have $10 - $12K of equipment in front of these headphones, but things are still not where I want them. I know I'll make equipment changes before I try to see I can get the headphones to co-operate with everything else) I know better !!
  
 ~steve


----------



## 62ohm




----------



## knowhatimean

62ohm said:


>


 
 So , I have to ask.... Isn't that what we all do every time we view any of these threads ?
  
  I guess after almost 1200 pages "Redundancy" is bound to happen when some of us  hang around for awhile !. (Do we have a "Selfie"
 Icon that I could insert here ?)
  
 (& I think I may have posted this exact same posting several pages back? ; 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## icebear

knowhatimean said:


> ...
> Why would you assume the "Message" is at fault *for the inability of the "Messenger" to deliver it more accurately. *A lot of people
> have it backwards in what they attempt to "fix" first.
> ~steve


 
  
 ... or maybe the messenger just isn't polite and tells it like it is.
 Pure truth, plain and simple, no decoration, no fluffy stuff. There are always two sides to a coin


----------



## maibuN

icebear said:


> ... or maybe the messenger just isn't polite and tells it like it is.
> Pure truth, plain and simple, no decoration, no fluffy stuff. There are always two sides to a coin


 

 Maybe, but if you don't know the message in detail you can't know if it's pure truth. And what if your messages are all painful? Do you like to have pain while listening music? Or do you only want to pick some good messages and ignore the others?


----------



## knowhatimean

icebear said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


 
 Nah !!! Sennheiser's truth is actually additive of what you're hearing on recordings, but in many music genres these additions aren't
 problematic "additions" as they're not heard.
  
 I know what sounds are likely to come from Orchestral instruments being played & how they're likely to "excite" the space they
 were recorded in. Trust me when I say there is a lot of resonance that is interfering with what was recorded, but it only matters
 if it masking "ambient" information, that you know is there !
  
 There may be be two sides to a coin,but one of those sides may not be as up to par as the other
  
 ~steve


----------



## icebear

maibun said:


> Maybe, but if you don't know the message in detail you can't know if it's pure truth. And what if your messages are all painful? Do you like to have pain while listening music? Or do you only want to pick some good messages and ignore the others?


 
  
 With my music preference I am quite OK with the message that the HD800 is telling me. If it's painful, I don't want to listen to it of course
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





knowhatimean said:


> Nah !!! Sennheiser's truth is actually additive of what you're hearing on recordings, but in many music genres these additions aren't
> problematic "additions" as they're not heard.
> 
> I know what sounds are likely to come from Orchestral instruments being played & how they're likely to "excite" the space they
> ...


 
  
 I visit concerts quite often (last night: Keith Jarrett, Carnegie Hall) and I do compare what I hear at home to these live events.
 For me it's close enough to forget about the equipment and being captivated by the musical performance.


----------



## pearljam50000

The HD800 is just for people who can handle the truth....


----------



## preproman

icebear said:


> I visit concerts quite often (last night: Keith Jarrett, Carnegie Hall)


 
  
 Sounds like my kind of concert..


----------



## roguegeek

pearljam50000 said:


> The HD800 is just for people who can handle the truth....


 

 I like this.


----------



## deuter

I have an opportunity to buy a HD800 in low serial numbers, 600 and there abouts in the serial number. Was wondering whether they are sonically inferior to the newer ones. 
Heard that they were bass light, is that the case?


----------



## knowhatimean

icebear said:


> >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What would lead you to believe that I would have any doubt that the HD800s aren't capable of this ? That not what I was referring to.
  
 It really isn't any big deal for these headphones to capture "close enough" . The HD800s will do a remarkably good job of capturing a live full Orchestral performance, but with this much of an increase in the amount of "Dynamic" information (& how much of this information your entire playback information is able to resolve) there will be some "headphone induced" noise generated that you will recognize as not being the harmonics from the instruments being played so you really can't notice the micro-dynamics of when one note stops & softer played notes begin.
  
 I know this from a "comparative" basis as I "can" now distinguish these "micro-dynamics" after getting rid of these resonances that were present from my "stock" HD800s. I have several hundred recordings that I listen to from hard drive that now go quite a bit further than "close enough" for me. I can't tell you how often something happens on a recording that distracts me enough to think it came from another room in my house or from outside !
  
 Getting small scale music to sound like this isn't really that difficult through good equipment. To get this kind of response through
 any kind of equipment on extremely dynamically dense large scale music is ridiculously difficult so most people don't even strive
 to get to this level. With what I can get from the HD800s "now" you won't see me talking about the HE-6 (I no longer use anymore)
  
 (I hadn't even considered people talking about the HD800s "prettifiying" music) As it turns out the HD800s are capable of amazing
 performance , (Once you bannish their insufficient "voicing" for "my music genre of choice)
  
 (I'm listening to a  Decca recording (that Mobile Fidelity later mastered a "Super Disc" from) of Lorin Maazel conducting The Cleveland Orchestra in a recording of Respighi's "Pines of Rome & Feste Romane" that is just sounding tremendous) (It's rare
 when I'm not being captivated by the musical performance through my HD800s(& He, he, he the "$12K" of equipment feeding them)


----------



## icebear

> Originally Posted by *knowhatimean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ... there will be some "headphone induced" noise generated that you will recognize as not being the harmonics from the instruments being played *so you really can't notice the micro-dynamics of when one note stops & softer played notes begin.* [1]
> 
> ...


 
  
 In general I had a hard time understanding what you were trying to tell ... I don't know what you mean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 at least not exactely.
  
 [1] I have no problem hearing individual notes played in parallel decaying and intensifying e.g. Gould's Beethoven concerts.
      What's the problem ... I am not sure what you are talking about ?
  
 [2] Yes, I had that effect a couple of times, too but I have a stock HD800
  
 [3] I recommend Fritz Rainer, Chicago S.O. Living Stereo SACD editions, amoung them also the Respighi
  
 And just to clarify "my close enough" might be different from your "close enough"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 And of course, enjoy your modified HD800


----------



## deuter

deuter said:


> I have an opportunity to buy a HD800 in low serial numbers, 600 and there abouts in the serial number. Was wondering whether they are sonically inferior to the newer ones.
> Heard that they were bass light, is that the case?




I should say the serial number is low 9000s


----------



## Mach3

deuter said:


> I should say the serial number is low 9000s



 


My previous pair of 9XXX had slight more bass than 14XXX. This was evident and confirmed on the frequency chart of both pair.


----------



## wink

Quote:nephilim32 





> I've looked into it and at the moment I just don't have the heart to do it. I just can't. I love what I have set up right now, and I feel anymore added 'warmth' to my sound chain will colour or mess with the overall integrity and character that my 800's have. I kind of feel like this 'mod' would somehow make 1000 Germans cry in unison at the Sennheiser factory if they all were to find out what I had done. Lol.


 
 DO THE MOD.    Yes, I am shouting.........


----------



## Priidik

> I kind of feel like this 'mod' would somehow make 1000 Germans cry in unison at the Sennheiser factory if they all were to find out what I had done. Lol.


 
 Anax mod done even slightly wrong makes things worse for me personally.  
 The key is right materials. Then it is improvement.


----------



## knowhatimean

priidik said:


> > I kind of feel like this 'mod' would somehow make 1000 Germans cry in unison at the Sennheiser factory if they all were to find out what I had done. Lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well that applies to anything ; Just think how bad a "Vasectomy" could go if done "slightly wrong"
  
 They definitely have to be using the "right materials" for that ( craft scissors & some tape is not going cut it) (or should I say "hope"
 doesn't "cut it")


----------



## HiFiChris

knowhatimean said:


> priidik said:
> 
> 
> > > I kind of feel like this 'mod' would somehow make 1000 Germans cry in unison at the Sennheiser factory if they all were to find out what I had done. Lol.
> ...


 
  
 That's... sort of a weird analogy, yet a plausible one.
  
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## TonyNewman

knowhatimean said:


> Well that applies to anything ; Just think how bad a "Vasectomy" could go if done "slightly wrong"
> 
> They definitely have to be using the "right materials" for that ( craft scissors & some tape is not going cut it) (or should I say "hope"
> doesn't "cut it")


 
  
 Real men use gardening shears and a blowtorch.


----------



## roguegeek

I'm gonna play a quick game of "Is it just me or everyone?" (all in the name of fun, people).
  
 Is it just me or does everyone have a problem when they see it written "HD800" vs the correct "HD 800"? Same with "HD600", "HD700", and so on. I'm way too much of a stickler for syntax and nomenclature.


----------



## TonyNewman

roguegeek said:


> I'm gonna play a quick game of "Is it just me or everyone?" (all in the name of fun, people).
> 
> Is it just me or does everyone have a problem when they see it written "HD800" vs the correct "HD 800"? Same with "HD600", "HD700", and so on. I'm way too much of a stickler for syntax and nomenclature.


 
  
 It's just you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I can't be arsed to put the space in.


----------



## citraian

What aboud HD-800? )


----------



## lukeap69

citraian said:


> What aboud HD-800?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That will do.


----------



## Zoom25

roguegeek said:


> I'm gonna play a quick game of "Is it just me or everyone?" (all in the name of fun, people).
> 
> Is it just me or does everyone have a problem when they see it written "HD800" vs the correct "HD 800"? Same with "HD600", "HD700", and so on. I'm way too much of a stickler for syntax and nomenclature.


 

 It doesn't bother me, but I actively DO notice it. I prefer HD 800 as well...speaking of which, I'm still enjoying mines. I've recently been using it more for gaming and movies. The ambience is unreal. Although the D2000 is right there with it. They are both at the same level IMO for gaming and movies.


----------



## wink

I prefer HD DCCC


----------



## BobJS

roguegeek said:


> I'm gonna play a quick game of "Is it just me or everyone?" (all in the name of fun, people).
> 
> Is it just me or does everyone have a problem when they see it written "HD800" vs the correct "HD 800"? Same with "HD600", "HD700", and so on. I'm way too much of a stickler for syntax and nomenclature.


 
  
 I get to (I know) bogged down with misuse and misspellings too (!) even notice.  I see you're (!) point though. I'm not shure (!) their (!) are two (!) many folks who wood(!) even notice nomenclature.


----------



## icebear

tonynewman said:


> It's just you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 +1 .


----------



## wink

Quote:BobJS 





> I get to (I know) bogged down with misuse and misspellings too (!) even notice.  I see you're (!) point though. I'm not shure (!) their (!) are two (!) many folks who wood(!) even notice nomenclature.


 
 Two Write.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

roguegeek said:


> I'm gonna play a quick game of "Is it just me or everyone?" (all in the name of fun, people).
> 
> Is it just me or does everyone have a problem when they see it written "HD800" vs the correct "HD 800"? Same with "HD600", "HD700", and so on. I'm way too much of a stickler for syntax and nomenclature.


 
 Not just you... it is me, too!  It is So CONFUSING!  
  
 I became sensitized to this when I compiled a database of a year's worth of results of people ranking their own headphones, here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/721406/how-we-rank-our-own-headphones-statistics-of-2-000-owner-rankings-compiled#post_10597847
  
 For the database to allow retrieval, separate entries of the same headphone model had to be typed the same way.
  
 I ended up paying careful attention to how the manufacturer wrote the headphone model.  Hence it is Sennheiser HD 800 (not HD800 or HD-800), but it is HiFiMAN HE-500 (not HiFiMan HE 500 or HiFiMAN HE500).
  
 And to celebrate posts subsequent to roguegeeks ("Two write!"), and in celebration of National Grammar Day, which was two days ago, I offer (typed from memory, not cut and pasted)...
  
 Be careful of your grammar!
 Don't let nobody find
 You ain't been taught
 How you had ought
 To speak what's on your mind.
  
 I never knowed nobody
 What wouldn't have their speech
 Improved a lot
 By learning what
 Them grammars have to teach.
  
 Them grammar books will learn you
 How English should be spoke,
 So you won't make
 No rude mistake
 Like crude uncultured folk!
  
 Don't NEVER talk like they do!
 There ain't no reason why
 You cannot be
 As smart as me
 Nor learn to talk like I!


----------



## wink

^ I fink dat's a bit of orrite.


----------



## Mortalcoil

wink said:


> ^ I fink dat's a bit of orrite.


 

  Poser


----------



## pearljam50000

It bothers me if its not the full complete model name also
From now on please write:
Sennheiser-High Definition 800 MKI
Thanks.


----------



## PhilW

nom nom!


----------



## Justin_Time

roguegeek said:


> I'm gonna play a quick game of "Is it just me or everyone?" (all in the name of fun, people).
> 
> Is it just me or does everyone have a problem when they see it written "HD800" vs the correct "HD 800"? Same with "HD600", "HD700", and so on. I'm way too much of a stickler for syntax and nomenclature.




I must admit that mistakes with syntax or spelling bother me more than just a little but I've so far refrained from commenting as I can never be sure that my own writing is completely free of such Gremlins. As long as we are communicating clearly, I just as soon let it go.

 Let those without a sin cast the first stone.


----------



## TonyNewman

justin_time said:


> I must admit that mistakes with syntax or spelling bother me more than just a little but I've so far refrained from commenting as I can never be sure that my own writing is completely free of such Gremlins. As long as we are communicating clearly, I just as soon let it go.
> 
> Let those without a sin cast the first stone.


 
  
 Also worth remembering that for some folks English is not their first language.
  
 I do sometimes grit my teeth a little at the rampant misuse of "your" rather than the correct abbreviation "you're" for "you are", but these are tiny OCD blips on the HeadFi road and not worth worrying about. Much rather spend time on amps and headphones and tubes and other such audio goodness.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

It's helpful to use the spell checker, grammer tests, and readbility index calculators that often appear on our laptops or on line.

I am such a poor speller that any success I have in spelling things right is...

Owed to a Spell Chequer

I halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plane lee marques four my revue
Miss steaks aye ken knot sea

Eye ran this poem threw it
Your sure reel glad two no
It's vary polished in it's weigh
My chequer tolled me sew

A chequer is a bless sing
It freeze yew lodes of thyme
It helps me awl stiles two reed
And aides mi when aye rime

To rite with care is quite a feet
Of witch won should be proud
And wee mussed dew the best wee can
Sew flaws are knot aloud

And now bee cause my spelling
is checked with such grate flare
Their are know faults with in my cite
Of nun eye am a wear

Each frays come posed up on my screen
Eye trussed to be a joule
The chequer poured o'er every word
To cheque sum spelling rule

That's why aye brake in two averse
My righting wants too pleas
Sow now ewe sea wye aye dew prays
Such soft wear for pea seas


----------



## roguegeek

citraian said:


> What aboud HD-800?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 i kill you


----------



## Justin_Time

tonynewman said:


> Also worth remembering that for some folks English is not their first language.
> 
> I do sometimes grit my teeth a little at the rampant misuse of "your" rather than the correct abbreviation "you're" for "you are", but these are tiny OCD blips on the HeadFi road and not worth worrying about. Much rather spend time on amps and headphones and tubes and other such audio goodness.




English is my third language. This could mean that I have less time to acquire bad habits so I have less excuse for poor writing 

Back at the ranch, the temperature in Houston dipped to just below freezing last night. I had both the Woo WA5--alas sans Elrogs--and the Class-A Pass Aleph both turned on for additional heat while listening to the HD 800 and TH-900. Life is good!


----------



## TonyNewman

justin_time said:


> English is my third language. This could mean that I have less time to acquire bad habits so I have less excuse for poor writing
> 
> Back at the ranch, the temperature in Houston dipped to just below freezing last night. I had both the Woo WA5--alas sans Elrogs--and the Class-A Pass Aleph both turned on for additional heat while listening to the HD 800 and TH-900. Life is good!


 
  
 Some of the most correct and precise English I have ever heard came from a bunch Swedes I was working with on a project many years ago.
  
 They were trained by English tutors and spoke an upper crust Oxford English absolutely perfectly. Really surprised me when they broke into fluent Svenska - they spoke English far, far better than I do (or ever will). For them it was a second, or third, language.
  
 If you want heat get yourself an 845 based SET amp. 200W of Class A goodness that will warm a medium sized room easily. Brutal in summer, great in winter.


----------



## Mach3

HD800 Impressions turned into English lessons. Off topic much?? LOL


----------



## hpz

Well to get back on topic, here is a _very_ unique look at the HD 800s.
  
 And yes, this is a real X-ray of the left HD 800 driver and housing.


----------



## knowhatimean

hpz said:


> Well to get back on topic, here is a _very_ unique look at the HD 800s.
> 
> And yes, this is a real X-ray of the left HD 800 driver and housing.


 
 OK... How about an X-ray of someone while they're listening to  the HD 800
  
 On a serious note I'm wondering if should open up that tiny connector chamber & put a little AVM on those wire leads....couldn't
 hurt I suppose ! The more I think about it I'm pretty certain I'll probably get the "ALO" headphone cable I'm using with them "straight wired" directly to them
  
 (Now what did I do with that bottle of "AVM" ?; This stuff has always worked pretty well on anything I've tried it on)
  
 YMMV
 ~steve


----------



## HiFiChris

@knowhatimean: What do you mean by "AVM"?


----------



## knowhatimean

hifichris said:


> @knowhatimean: What do you mean by "AVM"?


 
 It's a product called "Anti Vibrational Magic" by Uniko. Google it !
  
 There are a number of testimonials that, after having used this on a few occasions, don't doubt the sincerity of.
  
 I have little doubt that the Beyerdynamic A1 headphone wouldn't work as well as it's been with my HD 800 if it weren't for the fact that I'd painted all of it's capacitors with it a few years ago (The A1 was at best a "mediocre" headphone amp: It's now better; not as good as the Burson Soloist I was using, but it will work until I get a "real" headphone amp !)
  
 (It's a shame I used most of the "AVM" up before I'd gotten the Soloist)


----------



## pearljam50000

Sounds like snake oil to me.


----------



## TonyNewman

pearljam50000 said:


> Sounds like snake oil to me.


 
  
 If it makes an audible difference in A/B testing (preferably blind A/B testing) then I say go for it and enjoy.
  
 I am yet to hear an audible difference due to changes in any of the following:

Speaker cables
Interconnects (RCA or XLR)
USB cables
Power cables
Headphone cables
  
 Some folks claim they can hear changes in SQ by changes any of the above - good luck to them - I'm just not one of them.
  
 I would expect a 10 times or greater difference in price for any of the above components to produce an audible difference, as it does for DACs or amps or tubes or speakers - it never has for me in the slightest. I cannot hear any difference between a $5 USB cable and a $300 USB cable, so I save myself the $295 and use the $5 cable. YMMV.


----------



## longbowbbs

Generally advanced tweeks are the last part of massaging a top end chain. It could be as simple as "These awesome silver cables look incredible!" or it may add to your sonic pleasure. I certainly would not start there.


----------



## SuperU

tonynewman said:


> If it makes an audible difference in A/B testing (preferably blind A/B testing) then I say go for it and enjoy.
> 
> I am yet to hear an audible difference due to changes in any of the following:
> 
> ...


 
 +1000
  
 And for the price that some pay for headphone cables, one could buy a new amp or DAC.


----------



## roguegeek

tonynewman said:


> I am yet to hear an audible difference due to changes in any of the following:
> 
> Speaker cables
> Interconnects (RCA or XLR)
> ...




+1001
I will buy some of these things if I want better, more robust CONSTRUCTION, but that's about it.


----------



## TonyNewman

roguegeek said:


> +1001
> I will buy some of these things if I want better, more robust CONSTRUCTION, but that's about it.


 
  
 +1.
  
 I bought some nice ALO cables for my TOTL headphones (HE6 / HD800 / LCD-X) - not for any SQ benefit but for increased length and comfort/convenience. I A/B swap between stock and custom cables from time to time - no audible difference I can hear.
  
 I have some nice XLR interconnects that cost around $80 a pair. I like them because they are very solid and well made. I cannot hear any sonic difference when using these or $5 RCA interconnects between my Vega DAC and 430HA headamp/preamp (but that isn't why I purchased them in the first place).


----------



## jsgraha

I do envy anyone who can't hear the difference in cable. It will certainly make life easier by eliminating a few extra options of trying cables. I found the difference in cables are small (and MAYBE not worth the price), but noticeable. The audiophile in me certainly would like to try them to improve the overall setup, eventhough not cost effective at all.

I found bigger improvement on source, amp and even on transport, which include tinkering on usb port (Paul Pang make a nice one). In the past two years, the nicest improvement that I experienced actually when I upgraded my noisy computer to passively cooled custom pc with external linear power supply. The difference in sq in total setup was big, bigger than upgrading my dac from ref5 to ref7. Similar difference imo when I upgraded from soloist to stratus.

So I guess, cables do make improvement. But on overall setup, maybe small and not cost effective for sure. If someone can't hear it, it's even better. Save money to upgrading amp, dac even transport. And if someone can't hear the difference in amp, dac or transport, well... that's even better, I will envy and jealous of you.


----------



## TonyNewman

jsgraha said:


> ...
> So I guess, cables do make improvement. But on overall setup, maybe small and not cost effective for sure. If someone can't hear it, it's even better. Save money to upgrading amp, dac even transport. And if someone can't hear the difference in amp, dac or transport, well... that's even better, I will envy and jealous of you.


 
  
 If cable improvements work for you, then go for it and enjoy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's all about finding the rig that works best for your tastes and your ears.
  
 I can hear a clear difference in my setup between my old integrated amp (Cambridge Audio Azur 650A) and my new power amp costing approx 10 times as much (Accuphase P-4200), but I can't hear any difference at all between cheap cables and those costing 10 or 20 or 50 times as much. I have tried and tried in A/B testing, but always come up with nothing. Might be my defective hearing. Either way, I'm happy to spend less on cables and more on other things like amps / DACs / tubes / speakers / headphones.
  
 To each their own


----------



## jsgraha

tonynewman said:


> If cable improvements work for you, then go for it and enjoy  It's all about finding the rig that works best for your tastes and your ears.
> 
> I can hear a clear difference in my setup between my old integrated amp (Cambridge Audio Azur 650A) and my new power amp costing approx 10 times as much (Accuphase P-4200), but I can't hear any difference at all between cheap cables and those costing 10 or 20 or 50 times as much. I have tried and tried in A/B testing, but always come up with nothing. Might be my defective hearing. Either way, I'm happy to spend less on cables and more on other things like amps / DACs / tubes / speakers / headphones.
> 
> To each their own




No, you don't defective hearing and I do seriously envy you 

And Accuphase ... Nice ...


----------



## TonyNewman

jsgraha said:


> And Accuphase ... Nice ...


 
  
 I love mine. Combines warmth, musicality and detail - similar in way to what the Vega DAC does (which it pairs well with). Accuphase are a bit of a niche player, but worth an audition if you like a rich sound (almost tube like).


----------



## jsgraha

tonynewman said:


> I love mine. Combines warmth, musicality and detail - similar in way to what the Vega DAC does (which it pairs well with). Accuphase are a bit of a niche player, but worth an audition if you like a rich sound (almost tube like).


 
 I've demo one Accuphase, but forgot it's model number and with speaker. And it's one of the good demo experience. Same with Vega DAC. One of the good DAC in my book. It's my fav DAC everytime I auditioned amp and headphone at my local shop, A2A Melbourne.


----------



## RUMAY408

Check out the new Cadillac ad, Steve Wosniak sporting HD800's, and listening to vinyl on what looks like a VPI Classic 3!


----------



## knowhatimean

Hmmm... I had debated making any mention of the "possibilities" that "I" saw for "potentially" bringing the HD 800 more inline with
 being more of a "High-End" Audio Component to "myself" (It appears that I will have to preface everything with, "I", or "myself" &
 end each posting with "YMMV")
  
 Honestly, I've been at this hobby for over thirty years & while many of you don't appear to view applying "Tweeks" nearly as freely as I do , I would never suggest something that I felt was "snake oil" to anyone. I would only suggest things that I've had some "personal success" with ! It may be that I've become a bit "thinner skinned" as I've gotten older so I'm less than "thrilled" that anyone would suggest I was "recommending" "snake oil"
  
 I really don't view a lot of things that I routinely do when I add a component to my playback chain such as various cables,, power cords, etc. as doing anymore than giving the new component any "advantage" that I can. Every component is built to a price point.The only reason some components may realistically be considered TOTL equipment might just be because better passive parts were used in the design & as a result it isn't as necessary to provide these components with some of the steps you take with "lesser"(& It's not by much) equipment.
  
 If I had "deeper pockets" or a different system building attitude of "I won't concern myself with certain things until I have my "End Game" system in place !" I wouldn't bother with a lot that I do . I'm much more interested in getting the "most" I can from any "Incarnation" of my playback system that I may be putting together gradually !
  
 So I don't forget !!!
 YMMV (Who am I kidding !).... YMDV
 ~steve


----------



## RUMAY408

^^ I just posted about Wosniak, then you end your post with the name Steve, YKWIM


----------



## knowhatimean

rumay408 said:


> ^^ I just posted about Wosniak, then you end your post with the name Steve, YKWIM


 
 Hey,....."stuff happens" (Sorry, bud)
  
 You're right though that is a pretty good commercial  (I wonder who picked the Sennheiser & VPI pieces used for the commercial
 & how much of a royalty they were paid for their inclusion in the commercial ?)
  
 Talking about "product placement" in the new "Odd Couple" TV series there is another pair of Martin Logan loudspeakers in
 plain view every episode as they were in Matthew Perry's apartment for years on "Friends".


----------



## RUMAY408

knowhatimean said:


> Hey,....."stuff happens" (Sorry, bud)
> 
> You're right though that is a pretty good commercial  (I wonder who picked the Sennheiser & VPI pieces used for the commercial
> & how much of a royalty they were paid for their inclusion in the commercial ?)
> ...


 

 I saw the commercial for the first time on a PGA telecast, golf is one of my few outside audio passions.
  
 What I liked, no one piece of equipment or even Woz was named, either you know it or you don't, If it's good enough for Woz it's good enough for me or is it the other way around


----------



## HiFiChris

There are some celebrities that are into high end hifi (even though I don't care a lot about celebrrities).
  
 Jobs had a good speaker rig and recently there was an actor stotted (I don't know his name) wearing the Audez'e LCD-XC on a walk through the city. Why not? They're human beings, too and some of them are more into hifi than others.


----------



## knowhatimean

You know how several postings back there was a discussion about how everyone was 'mis-naming'  the HD 800 (or whatever other Sennheiser (Why does this keep getting underlined it's spelled CORRECTLY)* HD models) as HD800. Well if you look at any number  of thread titles over here guess how they are referred to as.
  
 Yeah,exactly!!!!........With this in mind how much of a surprise is it that people write this incorrectly when 'all' the thread titles remain 'incorrect'
  
 *(please correct the spell check function to disregard product names;or put them all in the database) (spellcheck assumptions? &
 people still insist 'Artificial Intelligence' is a valid concept; TOTL 'nonsense)
  
 (better yet how do I turn OFF the spellcheck function ?: I'll live on the 'edge' of being 'literate' & take my chances)


----------



## pearljam50000

Are there any other people here that are not sure about buying the HD800 because of the rumors of a newer version of HD800?


----------



## bearFNF

knowhatimean said:


> You know how several postings back there was a discussion about how everyone was 'mis-naming'  the HD 800 (or whatever other Sennheiser (Why does this keep getting underlined it's spelled CORRECTLY)* HD models) as HD800. Well if you look at any number  of thread titles over here guess how they are referred to as.
> 
> Yeah,exactly!!!!........With this in mind how much of a surprise is it that people write this incorrectly when 'all' the thread titles remain 'incorrect'
> 
> ...


 

 You can right click the word and add it to your dictionary or ignore it.

  you can turn it off by going to "Languages->Manage settings" But this will turn off the add-in for all sites I think...


----------



## knowhatimean

bearfnf said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > You know how several postings back there was a discussion about how everyone was 'mis-naming'  the HD 800 (or whatever other Sennheiser (Why does this keep getting underlined it's spelled CORRECTLY)* HD models) as HD800. Well if you look at any number  of thread titles over here guess how they are referred to as.
> ...


 
 Wow, thanks !
  
 Now I can be less of a grumpy 'Curmudgeon' than I tend to be ! (Still a 'Curmudgeon' , but slightly more 'social' )
  
 ~steve


----------



## 62ohm

pearljam50000 said:


> Are there any other people here that are not sure about buying the HD800 because of the rumors of a newer version of HD800?


 
  
 To my eyes you are the one making up the rumors, I don't see anyone else consistently speculating on a successor of the HD800...


----------



## pearljam50000

OK...


----------



## Nudel

I think it is still too early for new model. They've made not so long ago great headphone amp with dac and balanced cable so... I rather say no. We gonna wait a bit longer for succesor of hd 800. By the way... HD 800 is still great piece of engineering


----------



## ubs28

Sennheiser won't kill off the HD800, it is the most successful high-end headphone of all time. That doesn't make sense.
  
 What I can see happening is a new Sennheiser Orpheus.


----------



## TonyNewman

ubs28 said:


> ...
> What I can see happening is a new Sennheiser Orpheus.


 
  
 This I have heard a little about. Nothing official, of course, just rumours of a new statement product for those with very large budgets.


----------



## pearljam50000

Is the separation on the HD800 better than the PS1000?


----------



## preproman

pearljam50000 said:


> Is the separation on the HD800 better than the PS1000?


 

 Hold up.  So you don't own or never heard the HD800s before - after all this time?


----------



## pearljam50000

Lol
I will explain my weird situation.
I had the HD800 about 4 Years ago, didn't have money for a DAC/amp, but they still sounded amazing out of an MP3 player, then I sold them, and I regret that.

Now I'm thinking about getting another pair.
I never heard the PS1000 BTW, but have read about some people liking them more than the HD800.


----------



## preproman

O I C now.  Go ahead and get another pair.  That's the only way you can confirm your like or dislike for them.  I bought 3 pair thus far.


----------



## pearljam50000

3 pairs? you must LOVE them


----------



## preproman

I did, then I didn't then I did -then I sold my last pair that I put a lot of work in.  The buyer allowed me to buy them back at the price she paid for them.  I have them now.  Maynot ever leave home again.


----------



## Zoom25

Pearljam...bro...just do it. You're constantly questioning yourself over HD800 and bunch of active monitors. It's the same thing each week. If you want to have both speakers and headphones and not kill the budget, make sure to get some kind of DAC/headphone amp/pre-amp combo so you can power both headphones and speakers with one device. That was exactly what I did and am very happy so far. Not really feeling the need to go back to separates either. I still think your best option would be to get one master interface and then get HD800 and a pair of speakers like LSR305. It won't break the budget too much, especially for the sound you'll be getting. Although make sure that the device driving the monitors and/or headphones can really do them justice. You'd really regret getting either the HD800 or active monitors without having a decent interface.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

For @pearljam50000 question on separation of HD 800 vs. PS1000:

See here, where I compared several aspects among the HD 800, PS1000, and the RSi1: I would say that "separation" most closely corresponds to soundstage in the chart. Sennheiser HD 800 wins over the PS1000 on sound stage.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/530965/grado-fan-club/23295#post_11340487

Here are the end results (3 is best for each of the 10 features, "First Prize," if you will):


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks for caring and the great advice!
My self doubt is really bad, but I'll try to be more decisive and make up my mind, following your advice, so thanks again 


zoom25 said:


> Pearljam...bro...just do it. You're constantly questioning yourself over HD800 and bunch of active monitors. It's the same thing each week. If you want to have both speakers and headphones and not kill the budget, make sure to get some kind of DAC/headphone amp/pre-amp combo so you can power both headphones and speakers with one device. That was exactly what I did and am very happy so far. Not really feeling the need to go back to separates either. I still think your best option would be to get one master interface and then get HD800 and a pair of speakers like LSR305. It won't break the budget too much, especially for the sound you'll be getting. Although make sure that the device driving the monitors and/or headphones can really do them justice. You'd really regret getting either the HD800 or active monitors without having a decent interface.


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks a lot .
What made you feel that the transparency is only "1" for the HD800?


ruthieandjohn said:


> For @pearljam50000 question on separation of HD 800 vs. PS1000:
> 
> See here, where I compared several aspects among the HD 800, PS1000, and the RSi1: I would say that "separation" most closely corresponds to soundstage in the chart. Sennheiser HD 800 wins over the PS1000 on sound stage.
> 
> ...


----------



## ruthieandjohn

pearljam50000 said:


> Thanks a lot .
> What made you feel that the transparency is only "1" for the HD800?



Comparative listening. Grados are known for their transparency, and it more than any other difference became immediately apparent in side-by-side comparison. Not just for the PS1000, but also the Grado RS1i.


----------



## Dragonsan

Anyone here have experience with the iBasso MK2 and the HD800?
  
 I'm trying to make a portable rig combo, and sadly my Dragonfly broke, so it looks like that's not going to be an option.


----------



## pearljam50000

I always thought that the HD800 was considered very transparent, guess I was wrong.


ruthieandjohn said:


> Comparative listening. Grados are known for their transparency, and it more than any other difference became immediately apparent in side-by-side comparison. Not just for the PS1000, but also the Grado RS1i.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

pearljam50000 said:


> I always thought that the HD800 was considered very transparent, guess I was wrong.


 

 Take a side-by-side listen... HD 800 to ANY on-ear or over-ear Grado, even their least-expensive ($79) SR60.  Grado will clearly be more transparent.
  
 (And that is using the Sennheiser HDVD 800 DAC / amp, designed FOR the HD 800, to drive the HD 800).


----------



## 62ohm

David Mahler would disagree..
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13
  
 Quote (PS1000): 





> *TRANSPARENT?:* The PS1000 is not a transparent headphone per se. Its frequency response is far enough from flat that I cannot commend it for being a transparent headphone. However, I don't find the sound to be particularly grainy.


 
  
 Quote (RS2 & RS1): 





> *TRANSPARENT?:* I am convinced that none of Grado's offerings are definitively transparent. However, all of the ones which I have heard get very close.


 
  
 Quote (HP1000): 





> *LACKS ULTIMATE TRANSPARENCY:* While the HP2 is a very transparent sounding headphone, it feels somehow lacking when compared against other headphones at a similar price point (such as the LCD-3 and Omega 2).


 
  
 Quote (HD800): 





> *TRANSPARENT?:* The HD800 functions as a very transparent window into the music. That said, I would not say that the HD800 is _the_ most transparent headphone on the block. It is definitely near the top tier with regard to transparency, but there can sometimes be a slight edginess in the treble that makes it fall just slightly short of ultimate perfection.


----------



## olor1n

ruthieandjohn said:


> pearljam50000 said:
> 
> 
> > I always thought that the HD800 was considered very transparent, guess I was wrong.
> ...


 
  
 This ranks up there as one of the most outrageous assertions I've read on Head-Fi. Lol.


----------



## TonyNewman

olor1n said:


> This ranks up there as one of the most outrageous assertions I've read on Head-Fi. Lol.


 
  
 That's a pretty high benchmark. There have been some whoppers on this forum


----------



## Sorrodje

Grado more transparent than the hd800.LOL!


----------



## 62ohm

@Sorrodje
  
 I'm ordering a Metrum Octave Mk.1 right now, I believe you had one in the past. May I ask why did you sell it?


----------



## Sorrodje

I





62ohm said:


> @Sorrodje
> 
> 
> I'm ordering a Metrum Octave Mk.1 right now, I believe you had one in the past. May I ask why did you sell it?




I sold it for two main reasons.

First of all, despite the fact i really loved the octave, the feeling that something were missing in the sound never left me. This DAC offers marvelous textured and bodied sound. Particularly in the mids and bass but some excitement, bite was not here. I realized this when I compared the octave to the Beresford caiman. The Beresford is close in term of bodied/analog sound but offers a bit more resolution IMO. Kind of trade: bit less body vs a bit more resolution. Then I understood the octave will leave after a year of good services.

Moreover a friend of mine proposed. E his DACCORD and I'm a long time fan of Jan Meier. I could not refuse.

But I've found a totalDAC at a somewhat affordable price (if I sell a lot of my current gear) ... so I currently ask the friend I sold the metrum to if I could borrow it in order I can compare the two R2R DACs... my desk is currently a mess full of DACs.


----------



## Mach3

ruthieandjohn said:


> Take a side-by-side listen... HD 800 to ANY on-ear or over-ear Grado, even their least-expensive ($79) SR60.  Grado will clearly be more transparent.
> 
> (And that is using the Sennheiser HDVD 800 DAC / amp, designed FOR the HD 800, to drive the HD 800).




Amusement from this assertion = Jedi (LOL)

Please don't take this the wrong way, as everyone is entitled to their opinions. But I can't stop laughing.


----------



## Dragonsan

I need a budget amp to drive the HD800s. Would the Little Dot I+ work? What about the Schiit Vali?


----------



## subtle

ruthieandjohn said:


> Take a side-by-side listen... HD 800 to ANY on-ear or over-ear Grado, even their least-expensive ($79) SR60.  Grado will clearly be more transparent.
> 
> (And that is using the Sennheiser HDVD 800 DAC / amp, designed FOR the HD 800, to drive the HD 800).


 
  
 I honestly haven't laughed this hard in a long, long time.


----------



## cocolinho

dragonsan said:


> I need a budget amp to drive the HD800s. Would the Little Dot I+ work? What about the Schiit Vali?


 
 Vali ! It does work well with my dacmagic. Waiting for Valhalla 2 though.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Concerning my comment above that even the Grado SR60 at $79 is more transparent than the HD 800 that drew several remarks (too many to quote here with my limited ability to use "multiple quote" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )
  
 I feared perhaps I typed that without thinking, working from faulty memory, so this morning I went back and did my transparency comparison on the HD 800, powered by the HDVD 800, and the Grado SR60, powered by the Grado RA1 amp.  Though I listened to several short pieces of various music, I concentrated on the first few seconds of "You're Going To Miss Me When I'm Gone," by Band of  Heathens on their album _One Foot In The Ether _and concentrating on the initial snare drum, bass drum, and guitar that starts the song_ _(This is the test I use for any of my transparency comparisons and is the most familiar).
  
 I still think that the Grado is more transparent.  Perhaps we are using that word differently.  I ask which has the greater feeling of having a cloth in front of the speaker... that one is the less transparent.  But high transparency can lead to sibilance (and does, for the Grado SR60), and the huge soundstage of the HD 800 can distract and wow you with overall quality if you are not focusing on transparency alone.
  
 I will say that it is a small difference, and for the brief time I tried to be lazy and just run the Grados off the second output of the HDVD 800 for quick comparison, the difference was even less (if any), but when I put the Grado amp on the Grado headphones, there was a difference to me.  I think the difference in amps arises from the relatively high (43 ohm) output impedance of the HDVD 800, perfect for the ~300 ohm HD 800 but too high for the 32 ohm Grados.
  
 (By the way, I don't expect to convince anyone of anything except perhaps persuading them to listen to the two side by side, but I did need to check my own thoughts, since I was relying on memory when I said that.  And I can't comment on the HF1 - don't have it and haven't heard it).


----------



## wink

I had a pair of Grado SR60's and I gave them away.
  
 There was no way the SR60 compared in any department or came even close to the HD800.


----------



## BleaK

cocolinho said:


> Vali ! It does work well with my dacmagic. Waiting for Valhalla 2 though.


 
 +1
  
 Vali is exeptional value with the HD800. However the Valhalla 2 takes everything the Vali does up two notches, especially soundstage. I have around 50 hours on my V2 and it keeps getting better.
 Both amps punch way above their weightclass costwise in my opinion.
  
 I am actually wondering why Valhalla 2 isn't talked about more in this thread, it is a killer combo with HD800 and should be in pricerange for most who are looking for a great sounding tube amp for HD800.


----------



## Sorrodje

Transparency IMO is the ability to not have any sound of its own. Then every different recording can sound very differently. The hd800 is the headphone that match best with this definition IMO. I'm always stunned when I hear how differently ecordings can sound through my hd800. 

Grados offer a more direct kind of sound. But far more and coloured IMO. Much less transparent than the Senn.


----------



## knowhatimean

I don't know, but unless you're very new to all this (& even then I'd be very wary of any advice offered;Except mine of course
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) this thread should be taken "lightly" simply because it's nothing more than... that's right impressions.!
  
 That being said, if you read something that just seems to make no sense at all from what you're experience has been , it may be that the poster is trying to "stir-up" some type of senseless debate as there may not be enough valid thought processing going on to occupy his mind for reasonable amounts of time. There's a difference between people who are talking "with" you & those who talk "at" you ! I normally give people the benefit of the doubt the first time I detect this, but I'm basically 'done' with that person the second time it happens !
  
 I think the HD 800s (it 's making some people happy to see it written this way) 'can' be an exceptional listening experience, how do I think they "stack up" against other headphones, "I like 'em better", There are any number of other "Comparitive" headphone threads you can find this info .
  
 Alright , I guess you can get back to the normal 'banter' that goes on here. Just don't be overly impressed by what someone with a posting count of several "K" might have said !


----------



## Sorrodje

Didn't understand your point sorry.


----------



## citraian

Transparency for headphones translates into into lack of distortions and coloration (at least for me). If you just look at the THD graphs for HD 800 and PS 1000 you'd see that there is no contest by far 
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoPS1000.pdf


----------



## knowhatimean

sorrodje said:


> Didn't understand your point sorry.


 
 I forget that this is an International web site so as they say some things are "lost in translation"
  
 I guess , I was just saying that seeing as how there are people posting on this thread at all different levels of listening experience & that some of what you read in this thread may be useful to you & some may not . While someone may know more about something than you do & it only means "they know more" (but they may only think they know more). This hobby really isn't that hard to figure out how things "actually" work it just takes time.
  
 Hope that was a bit clearer, if not ask me "specifically" what it was that you didn't understand !
  
 (If memory serves me correct I think I may have said something you didn't get in another thread; maybe a "Metrum" thread as
 I had an Octave, now a Hex)


----------



## 62ohm

ruthieandjohn said:


>


 
  
 Keep in mind the HDVA 600 / HDVD 800 is not a particularly transparent amp (I also own one). It sounds pleasing, yes, but also IMO colored. The BHA-1 for one, is a much more transparent amp.


----------



## Sorrodje

knowhatimean said:


> (If memory serves me correct I think I may have said something you didn't get in another thread; maybe a "Metrum" thread as
> I had an Octave, now a Hex)


 
  
 Maybe. I don't remember sorry. Forgive my english , it is indeed not my native language and I struggle sometimes ( may I say often ) to understand what people write , especially where technical language, slang or connotations are used.
  
 I understand what you 're saying,. what i don't achieve to understand is to link what you said wit the transparency/grado/HD 800 debate ;à)


----------



## knowhatimean

sorrodje said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > (If memory serves me correct I think I may have said something you didn't get in another thread; maybe a "Metrum" thread as
> ...


 
 Aha ! I thought that it might have been interruption to the "ongoing" transparency debate ! (which I had a little time to think about; so
 I'll comment on that also)
  
 Everyone assigns different qualities to what they call "transparent". The real problem begins with where the "transparency" really
 starts. Does it go all the way back to how something was recorded or are somethings changing as the music passes through each piece of equipment before you hear what's coming out of your headphones ?
  
 The real truth is we all prefer the way certain things sound more than we do others. He, he, he... everyone really has to decide for
 themselves because things like "brightness, darkness, openness,sibilance etc" are not musical qualities but "mechanical" properties
 that were added during the recording or being created as the signal passes from one component to the next.
  
 "Transparency" is only important to what you're listening to ,it's really not a transferable value between other people ! You may feel
 that something is or isn't "more" transparent, but this is not a measurable degree of value, only an individual value.
  
 & that's it ! Debate solved !


----------



## TonyNewman

For the ultimate in transparency I use these.
  
  

  
 Total HD800 killer.


----------



## Nudel

Ultimate transparency...


----------



## ruthieandjohn

nudel said:


> Ultimate transparency...


 

 For ultimate transparency, *I* look forward to the emerging Sennheiser 1000 (shown below... seems they will continue to use the HD 800 box), for which details are revealed here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/16950#post_11322223


----------



## knowhatimean

If it's ultimate "Transparency" you're after it's really pretty simple !
  
 All you have to do is re-read the last three postings (read it carefully now: as I know some of you are big on *details)
 add up all that information & think about it for several days !
  
 & then you'll achieve the "ultimate"
  
 *(        ) You expected something to be there ???.............. It's "Transparent"


----------



## Blackmore

Transparency is when your equipment let you hear every possible thing from the source ( record ), without marking or coloring a lot. I don't believe in pure transparency, but thats my very subjective and personal opinion.


----------



## pearljam50000

The K1000 and HD800 are the most transparent that I have heard, but haven't tried many, but I know good sound when I hear it.


----------



## knowhatimean

blackmore said:


> Transparency is when your equipment let you hear every possible thing from the source ( record ), without marking or coloring a lot. I don't believe in puur transparency, but thats my very subjective and personal opinion.


 
 Exactly, there are no "degrees" of it & "it is" by nature  very subjective & personal (no need to call a fact, an opinion)
  
 (I didn't want to use the word "subjective" as that might have been too many syllables for some to understand here)


----------



## knowhatimean

pearljam50000 said:


> The K1000 and HD800 are the most transparent that I have heard, but haven't tried many, but I know good sound when I hear it.


 
 Is that the AKG K1000 ? (which someone is now making "again" I believe !)


----------



## ubs28

To me, transparency is heard in how clean and clear it sounds. You simply hear the source. That is in my opinion the biggest difference between a mid-fi headphone like the Shure SRH 1840 and a high-end headphone like the HD800.
  
 I always found Balanced Armature IEM's superior in this area over full sized headphones. Hence why I was so surprised when I heard the Sennheiser HD800.


----------



## pearljam50000

Yes, AKG K1000, but it was an old pair, I didn't hear about anyone making them again.


knowhatimean said:


> Is that the AKG K1000 ? (which someone is now making "again" I believe !)


----------



## knowhatimean

62ohm said:


> David Mahler would disagree..
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13
> 
> ...


 
 I think David's conclusion's were a bit colored by the DAC he used & the fact that the line conditioning he was using really didn't
 appear sufficient enough to hear far enough into the "noise floor" to hear how transparent the phones were.
  
 The thing that bothered me the most I suppose was even talking about "Ultimate Transparency" some of those opinions are definitely
 due to how certain phones sound on "that DAC" (& if there were other DACs they were of the same type I believe !)
  
 Oh! the stock HD 800 may not be at the top tier, "modded" I would say it's a lot closer !


----------



## knowhatimean

pearljam50000 said:


> Yes, AKG K1000, but it was an old pair, I didn't hear about anyone making them again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Look at Stereodesk.com ! (I was wrong but they claim to be able to get them for interested customers & of course offer upgrades to
 them (so it's worthwhile for them to continue the trade-in market! they're asking $3200 before upgrades. What were they new ?)


----------



## Blackmore

USD 3200, nice
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but these are old stock, not new production.


----------



## BobG55

preproman said:


> I did, then I didn't then I did -then I sold my last pair that I put a lot of work in.  The buyer allowed me to buy them back at the price she paid for them.  I have them now.  Maynot ever leave home again.


 

 Oh * preproman *you just made my day.  I've just ordered a pair for the 3rd time also, from a dealer in Montreal that I've done business with on a few occasions so he's giving me a bargain (20% off) but I was sitting down later today asking myself if I was sane or not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 & then I'm surfing this thread & read your comment.  I don't care wether I'm sane or not on this matter I'm just glad I found someone else who did the same


----------



## Clear Water

> I am actually wondering why Valhalla 2 isn't talked about more in this thread, it is a killer combo with HD800 and should be in pricerange for most who are looking for a great sounding tube amp for HD800.


 
 I find the Val2 to be quite bright paired with the 800s.  Perhaps a little thinner in the bass, but that could be my imagination.


----------



## White Lotus

My current HD800 rig, including a dedicated equalizer (31-band graphic EQ, 10-band parametric EQ)
  
*DAC*: Matrix Mini-i PRO DSD (Balanced)
  
*AMP (SS*): Matrix Quattro (Balanced) 
  
*AMP (tube)*: La Figaro 339
  
*EQ*: Behringer ULTRACURVE PRO DEQ2496 (Balanced)


----------



## lukeap69

How's the LF 339 with the HD800?


----------



## reddog

clear water said:


> I find the Val2 to be quite bright paired with the 800s.  Perhaps a little thinner in the bass, but that could be my imagination.



Could the issue of thinned out bass, be addressed with tube rolling?


----------



## Clear Water

reddog said:


> Could the issue of thinned out bass, be addressed with tube rolling?




I'm sure, but I haven't gone that route. I don't mind the thinner texture.


----------



## Nudel

ruthieandjohn said:


> For ultimate transparency, *I* look forward to the emerging Sennheiser 1000 (shown below... seems they will continue to use the HD 800 box), for which details are revealed here:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/16950#post_11322223


 
  
 Oh yes... They're indeed very transparent...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 greetings


----------



## WilCox

clear water said:


> I find the Val2 to be quite bright paired with the 800s.  Perhaps a little thinner in the bass, but that could be my imagination.


 
  
 That doesn't sound quite right since I find that the Valhalla 2 tilts the HD 800 toward a warm low end response with somewhat relaxed high frequencies.  I'm using stock tubes.  Definitely not bright by any means.


----------



## vc1187

lukeap69 said:


> How's the LF 339 with the HD800?




Owned the LF339 once upon a time and while it was great with the hd650, it was sorely disappointing with the hd800


----------



## Kyno

Did you guys find a significant difference between Crack+SB and the Valhalla 2 for those who've been able to test both?


----------



## Dragonsan

Does anyone have experience with this and the Geek Out 1000?


----------



## lukeap69

vc1187 said:


> Owned the LF339 once upon a time and while it was great with the hd650, it was sorely disappointing with the hd800




Thanks. That's all I need to know.


----------



## rage3324

I am looking for a Dac recommendation. I currently have a Dacmini which pairs EXTREMELY well with my Grado PS1000 and RS1i but not so well with my HD800. I am currently using the WA7 and WA7tp (tube power supply) as my amp and Dac for the HD800 but am waiting on delivery of DNA Stratus from Donald in a few months.
  
 I'd say my budget is around $500 used but will stretch if worth it and if the new dac will allow me to sell my Dacmini. 
  
 For reference, I like the Dacmini's soundstage and mid performance


----------



## rated1975

After years of listening to my LCD Rev 2, i dusted off my AKG 701's plugged them in. This confirmed that they are relatively bright and that the LCD's are very very warm in comparison, not necessarily rolled off in the higher FR, but more emphasised in the lower FR. But there is something special about how the 701's convey the music and the details. My foot was tapping again and i now feel i have (unknowingly) been craving this type of sound signature... or at least something between the 701's and LCD's.
  
 I suspect the time may have come for the HD 800's???


----------



## deuter

rated1975 said:


> After years of listening to my LCD Rev 2, i dusted off my AKG 701's plugged them in. This confirmed that they are relatively bright and that the LCD's are very very warm in comparison, not necessarily rolled off in the higher FR, but more emphasised in the lower FR. But there is something special about how the 701's convey the music and the details. My foot was tapping again and i now feel i have (unknowingly) been craving this type of sound signature... or at least something between the 701's and LCD's.
> 
> I suspect the time may have come for the HD 800's???





I can answer this soon. 

I had both the lcd and the k701. Will be getting the hd800 tomorrow.


----------



## Blackmore

While own HD800, still not planning to sell my AKG K702, cos, these are great headphones, especially, for the money you can get them for, imo. More even, planning to fully re-cable them directly from drivers, which supose to make them much better.


----------



## Dexon

rated1975 said:


> After years of listening to my LCD Rev 2, i dusted off my AKG 701's plugged them in. This confirmed that they are relatively bright and that the LCD's are very very warm in comparison, not necessarily rolled off in the higher FR, but more emphasised in the lower FR. But there is something special about how the 701's convey the music and the details. My foot was tapping again and i now feel i have (unknowingly) been craving this type of sound signature... or at least something between the 701's and LCD's.
> 
> I suspect the time may have come for the HD 800's???


 
  
   You should definitely try 'em if you have a chance. If you give em good DAC and amp they will easily outperform K701 in all aspects excepts one, attack or leading edge, whatever. In this aspect HD800 is more like estat, way more holographic than its should be. But is not a major issue, its only concerning me when listening to grand piano like Steinway, where is most apparent. Everything else is in another league, HD800 is far more resolvent. Going back to K701 is almost like going from K701 to HD600, veiled and congested.


----------



## knowhatimean

blackmore said:


> While own HD800, still not planning to sell my AKG K702, cos, these are great headphones, especially, for the money you can get them for, imo. More even, planning to fully re-cable them directly from drivers, which supose to make them much better.


 
 I believe the K702 become a little more "open" sounding & their LF response becomes less of a "hint" of being there on some material.
  
 Recabling them is a worthwhile 'tweek'


----------



## erikfreedom

geek out 1000 does a fine job with the hd 800. just make sure you have the latest firmware and drivers. there is a good jump in sound quality with the latest drivers. for such a small device, it is quite unreal the level of performance with hd 800. the amplifier section of this thing is a beast. I never have the volume pot over 30. it can go to 100. it is reliable, inexpensive and very powerful and sound good and is more than portable. very easy to setup and instal drivers and firmware. for an inexpensive solution for the hd 800, you c'ant go wrong with this thing. it is a little monster. I had hegel hd25 dac with beta 22 amp and this little device while not up to the level of such a rig is not that far either. this little device made me realize the laws of diminishing returns. I love that thing.


----------



## Dragonsan

erikfreedom said:


> geek out 1000 does a fine job with the hd 800. just make sure you have the latest firmware and drivers. there is a good jump in sound quality with the latest drivers. for such a small device, it is quite unreal the level of performance with hd 800. the amplifier section of this thing is a beast. I never have the volume pot over 30. it can go to 100. it is reliable, inexpensive and very powerful and sound good and is more than portable. very easy to setup and instal drivers and firmware. for an inexpensive solution for the hd 800, you c'ant go wrong with this thing. it is a little monster. I had hegel hd25 dac with beta 22 amp and this little device while not up to the level of such a rig is not that far either. this little device made me realize the laws of diminishing returns. I love that thing.




Thanks for your reply.


----------



## deuter

Guys, got my 096XX delivered. 
Boy the last seller did maintain it in amazing cosmetic condition. 

As far as the sound goes it's very balanced and detail? There is plenty and more. 

No treble harshness etc, as for the bass I don't miss my th900 bass whatsoever. 

Very Comfortable, I was little tensed about these as not everyone likes them but listening to them right now and all I can say these are well worth the money.


----------



## rated1975

dexon said:


> You should definitely try 'em if you have a chance. If you give em good DAC and amp they will easily outperform K701 in all aspects excepts one, attack or leading edge, whatever. In this aspect HD800 is more like estat, way more holographic than its should be. But is not a major issue, its only concerning me when listening to grand piano like Steinway, where is most apparent. Everything else is in another league, HD800 is far more resolvent. Going back to K701 is almost like going from K701 to HD600, veiled and congested.


 
 Thanks, this is what i expected.
  


deuter said:


> I can answer this soon.
> 
> I had both the lcd and the k701. Will be getting the hd800 tomorrow.


 
 Freaky coincidence. I look forward to your impressions.


----------



## Kyno

Well, I've been listening to the HD800 on a Crack+SB (Tung-Sol 5998 & Tungsram E80CC) for the past few days, but I find the sound quite thin, without much weight, and missing bass impact. Did you guys experience the same thing with this combo?


----------



## Sorrodje

What's your previous headphone kyno?


----------



## Kyno

Mostly the HE-560 these last 4 months, definitely not the most weighty signature like a T1/LCD can be, but more than the HD800 in the current configuration (while having a more intimate soundstage, which also helps to compensate for the thinness).
  
 I'm growing to like its expert signature, but I'm certainly missing weight/presence. I know the Crack can be limited with it, but it's also supposed to be decent so I'm not sure where I should go from here. Try a Valhalla 2? Wait for a DNA Sonett 2 to go on sale?


----------



## Sorrodje

I don't think you will have more weight with the sonett.

Just wait a few days more. If your feeling is still there in next weeks, Then the hd800 is not for you.

I've personally never felt any lack of body from all amps I owned. The crack has a 120 ohms headphone output if I remember well. This should add naturally bass body and warmth. If you have the opportunity to try a powerful solid state amp, do it. Ime solid-state amps offer better bass slam.


----------



## Kyno

Thanks for the input  I believe the Garage1217 Polaris had more bass impact, I distinctly remember being impressed with it. It was probably the most "dry" impact I had heard in headphones. But it also sounded very wide, bright, and overall less musical than the Crack.
  
 I'll keep listening to it for a while, you can hear how much they're headphones you need to get used to over time.
  
 What's more to like with a DNA Sonett? It seems to be well-regarded with the HD800.


----------



## rage3324

kyno said:


> Thanks for the input  I believe the Garage1217 Polaris had more bass impact, I distinctly remember being impressed with it. It was probably the most "dry" impact I had heard in headphones. But it also sounded very wide, bright, and overall less musical than the Crack.
> 
> I'll keep listening to it for a while, you can hear how much they're headphones you need to get used to over time.
> 
> What's more to like with a DNA Sonett? It seems to be well-regarded with the HD800.


 
 The Sonett is not known for it is bass performance. If you feel the HD800 is lacking in that environment, you will probably want to look at a different amp, perhaps something more Solid-State like (or a pure Solid-State amp) to help tighten the bass up


----------



## Acapella11

Kyno, have you used the Polaris in your place?


----------



## Sorrodje

IMO, the sonett adds refinement, smoothness, intimacy and a great sense of reality. It tends to add soundstage depth and a better feeling of the background of the music.

Nothing really impressive at the first listen but it grows on you. The sonett is a subtle refined amp.

My 2 cents.

What's your DAC kyno?




kyno said:


> Thanks for the input  I believe the Garage1217 Polaris had more bass impact, I distinctly remember being impressed with it. It was probably the most "dry" impact I had heard in headphones. But it also sounded very wide, bright, and overall less musical than the Crack.
> 
> I'll keep listening to it for a while, you can hear how much they're headphones you need to get used to over time.
> 
> What's more to like with a DNA Sonett? It seems to be well-regarded with the HD800.


----------



## Kyno

sorrodje said:


> IMO, the sonett adds refinement, smoothness, intimacy and a great sense of reality. It tends to add soundstage depth and a better feeling of the background of the music.
> 
> Nothing really impressive at the first listen but it grows on you. The sonett is a subtle refined amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Sonett actually sounds quite good described like that, although it doesn't seem to address my main issue with the HD800 indeed.
  
 My DAC is the Sonic Frontiers TransDAC. It's a R2R vintage DAC recommended from Bill-P here who had tried a few ones including the Neko MKII for its HE-560, but kept it since it was briging a great deal of musicality and body (for a small lack of details and transparency, that is, but it's slight and doesn't sound like a big issue with the HD800). I've been very impressed by it myself, though I only comes from an ODAC & AMB Gamma2 initially. It's also more round/smooth on top, which meant less ringing/fatigue.
  
 The thing I like the most about the HD800 is probably how unique every track sounds on it, though I can't help but feel like it sounds too hollow/airy/light on most tracks, there's a lot of time when I'm craving for more "oomph".
  


acapella11 said:


> Kyno, have you used the Polaris in your place?


 
  
 You mean at home? If so, yes, I owned it for 2 months or so.


----------



## Clear Water

kyno said:


> Mostly the HE-560 these last 4 months, definitely not the most weighty signature like a T1/LCD can be, but more than the HD800 in the current configuration (while having a more intimate soundstage, which also helps to compensate for the thinness).
> 
> I'm growing to like its expert signature, but I'm certainly missing weight/presence. I know the Crack can be limited with it, but it's also supposed to be decent so I'm not sure where I should go from here. Try a Valhalla 2? Wait for a DNA Sonett 2 to go on sale?


 
 I don't think the Valhalla 2 will give you the "oomph" you are looking for.  What kind of music do you prefer?  I find this makes a big difference in our descriptions of the sound we're looking for.


----------



## Kyno

clear water said:


> I don't think the Valhalla 2 will give you the "oomph" you are looking for.  What kind of music do you prefer?  I find this makes a big difference in our descriptions of the sound we're looking for.


 
  
 That's a funny thing, I used to listen to modern pop, mostly, and it was still the case starting with the DT990 Pro then HD650.
 Since I discovered flagships (HD800/T1/HE-560) spending a lot of time listening to the HE-560, I became to listen more and more to classical-related music. I probably went from 10/90% to 90/10%, as I still enjoyed some pop/k-pop and electronic music like Prodigy or Infected Mushroom here and there (for which the HD650/Crack combo sounds very decent). I'm also still rediscovering some genders, like soul music recently.
  
 So, yeah, a lot of classical and OST related tracks, without much vocals.


----------



## Clear Water

Ok!  I listen to "classical" exclusively.  I'm very happy with how the 800s sound with the Violectric V200.  The sound is less diffuse, and the bass is definitely more present than the Val2.  The other thing I'd like to mention is that the recording quality of classical music across the board (even from the same recording production crew from the same era) is very inconsistent.  90% of the time my dissatisfaction is with the flaws in that particular recording itself.


----------



## knowhatimean

kyno said:


> sorrodje said:
> 
> 
> > IMO, the sonett adds refinement, smoothness, intimacy and a great sense of reality. It tends to add soundstage depth and a better feeling of the background of the music.
> ...


 
 What you've just described is just an "honest" representation of how the HD 800 sound due to how Sennheiser 'voiced' them so
 the can also give a "Wowie~Zowie" big wide sound with "mid-fi" equipment. !
  
 You are the first person using a "good" tube headphone amp to admit that not all of the HD 800's 'wooliness' is being corrected
 simply through using a tube amp ! That's probably because the DAC that you think lacks a little detail & transparency really doesn't
 (You might think some of what you hear in other DACs is that ,but it's really not !) That DAC is just fine,what it lacks is the "colorations" that you mentioned
  
 The HD 800's sound "airy & light" because there are some internal resonances (easily correctable through some simple 'reversible'
 self installed mods to the headphones) that are interrupting the bass waves from developing inside the headphones !
  
 My HD 800s are seriously "musical sounding" with full bass & great sounstaging ; I modded them ! So you can try to "dumb down"
 some of the 'voicing' problem simply through equipment changes (which can get expensive), learn to live with how things tend to sound, or try the "mod route" (Seriously, it's not that tough ! or as expensive.) The headphone amp that I'll get will simply have to
 sound good , not fix the things keeping my HD 800 from sounding like they can)
  
 The HD 800 is 'not' bass light you just can't hear it because Sennheiser had to make everything sound "wider" than you've heard it
 (at the cost of hiding how great these headphones actually are)


----------



## Kyno

clear water said:


> Ok!  I listen to "classical" exclusively.  I'm very happy with how the 800s sound with the Violectric V200.  The sound is less diffuse, and the bass is definitely more present than the Val2.  The other thing I'd like to mention is that the recording quality of classical music across the board (even from the same recording production crew from the same era) is very inconsistent.  90% of the time my dissatisfaction is with the flaws in that particular recording itself.


 
  
 Haa, makes me think I really would have wanted to compared it with the Gustard H10, which seems to have been built to be a copy. It doesn't appear to sound exactly the same of course, if I trust FlySweep as he had heard both (though he preferred the Gustard). 
 There's a few people that seems very happy with the HD800 pairing, but I hated it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It was definitely fuller, I must say, less diffuse also, but besides being a lot more fatiguing than the Crack, it was missing soul/life in comparison.
  
 The Crack is actually my first tube amp, and I'm very impressed by its musicality and the lovely sparkle of life it brings to music.
  


knowhatimean said:


> The HD 800's sound "airy & light" because there are some internal resonances (easily correctable through some simple 'reversible'
> self installed mods to the headphones) that are interrupting the bass waves from developing inside the headphones !


 
 I only have Anax mod 2 installed, but I like mods, what are the ones you're referring to?


----------



## Sorrodje

kyno said:


> feel like it sounds too hollow/airy/light on most tracks, there's a lot of time when I'm craving for more "oomph".


 
  
 That make a lot more sense to my ears that the word "thin"
  
 HD800 offers a diffuse presentation. No amp or DAC will really fix that if you need too. In fact, my Sonett tends to counterbalance this a bit. That's why I say my amp sounds "intimate". From what I read Here or there , your anax mod should help to fix it too.
  
 IMO you dac and your amp are really fine, you brain just need some times of burn in. If after two or three weeks you still feel the sound stays overly diffuse for your tastes , then sell your HD800  . as I stated in my T1 ( vs HD800 review) on Tellementnomade.org and here on HEad-f , this is one of the main differences between the Beyer and the Senn .  T1's sound is more compact while the HD800 expose the music like a painting.
  
 My 2 cents


----------



## Priidik

kyno said:


> Mostly the HE-560 these last 4 months, definitely not the most weighty signature like a T1/LCD can be, but more than the HD800 in the current configuration (while having a more intimate soundstage, which also helps to compensate for the thinness).


 
 T1  vs HD800 should not feel weightier at all, that i heard through 3 different amps, which of 2 were toobs. One thing to note is that T1 is 600+ ohms?, that would aid damping from Crack to T1-s favor , thus make for somewhat tighter bass and less warm than maybe HD800? I have not personally heard the Crack though.
  
 Infected Mushroom should be epic through HD800. To me it is. But my electronic music taste has tilted towards metal and rock lately.


----------



## Clear Water

kyno said:


> Haa, makes me think I really would have wanted to compared it with the Gustard H10, which seems to have been built to be a copy. It doesn't appear to sound exactly the same of course, if I trust FlySweep as he had heard both (though he preferred the Gustard).
> There's a few people that seems very happy with the HD800 pairing, but I hated it
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting.  FlySweep seemed to prefer the Gustard over the V200 because of a larger soundstage, which I think would tend to give a more diffuse presentation.  Not having heard the Crack or the Gustard, I can't make comparisons.  However the V200 is less fatiguing than the Valhalla 2, and the soundstage is slightly (barely noticeable on the recordings I tend to enjoy) smaller.  I find it is a nice compromise.  Not sure what you mean by lacking soul/life, but if you hated the Gustard I doubt the V200 is for you, either. 
  
 I'm also not sure how you can attain both more "oomph" (impact?) while avoiding the fatigue that would seem to accompany it.  Has anyone had success with the 800s in this regard?


----------



## Kyno

sorrodje said:


> That make a lot more sense to my ears that the word "thin"
> 
> HD800 offers a diffuse presentation. No amp or DAC will really fix that if you need too. In fact, my Sonett tends to counterbalance this a bit. That's why I say my amp sounds "intimate". From what I read Here or there , your anax mod should help to fix it too.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'd love something a bit more intimate actually. The HE-560 certainly sounds more intimate while also being nicely detailed, but guess what, it's also lacking "oomph" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (even more so I'd say, it's more "mellow", and not as well separated, which makes things worse). It also has an annoying peak, though that's a work in progress with mods & amp. Thus the HD800 currently sounding more "right" across the spectrum. 
  
 But yeah, the HD800 is usually so diffused than it sounds hollow/echo-y, somehow taking away some feeling of the music. Something that'd be out of the reach of your arm, not palpable enough (the background in particular).
  
 You're right though, I come from the HD650, HE-560 and T1, which are certainly all less diffused than the HD800, so it might take some time, it's only been 4 days.
  
 It's probably even more true when you consider that the T1 and its known-to-be-fun signature was the one that managed to give me the more emotions between all of them. I just had to discard it for a time to get the Crack as it was pretty terrible for me with the Gustard (terrible mids, even though the amp was very capable in this regard with the HE-560, and very high-pitched highs). 
  
 All-in-all though, I don't think it would take that much to solve the issue I have with the HD800. Something a bit less diffused and hollow that would result in more presence might even do the trick, more than a better slam.
  
 You know, I also noted something strange since yesterday. I like the HD800 a lot more on critical listening than passive listening. The more I only listen to it, the better it gets, to the point I feel that I don't have much to say anymore. Then I start to do something else that requires some attention, and it becomes boring/off very quickly.
  


priidik said:


> T1  vs HD800 should not feel weightier at all, that i heard through 3 different amps, which of 2 were toobs. One thing to note is that T1 is 600+ ohms?, that would aid damping from Crack to T1-s favor , thus make for somewhat tighter bass and less warm than maybe HD800? I have not personally heard the Crack though.
> 
> Infected Mushroom should be epic through HD800. To me it is. But my electronic music taste has tilted towards metal and rock lately.


 
  
 Well, I'll only have my new T1 tomorrow morning, and I don't have my Gustard H10 anymore, but I distinctly remember how it sounded on some tracks after some heavy comparisons with the HE-560. 

 I don't know if weight is the right word, but there was a lot more "slam" on notes. I'm not talking about heavy bass, nor bass in particular, just more presence on notes, which I describe as more weighty when every note hit. You "feel" it more.
 There was more of that with the T1, additioned to the the fact it was less diffused made it quite more visceral. 
  
 I'm not sure yet I'd want that much out of the HD800, I may end up feeling that the T1 is just too punchy for long sessions. If anything, the HD800 is quite relaxing. I'm still probably going to need more presence if I am to keep the Sennheiser (something floating a bit less in the air and/or not as far away), but I'll give it time to see where it gets me.
  
 My Crack+SB being customized for the T1 in particular (this little guy: http://www.head-fi.org/t/732374/bottle-head-crack-240v-custom-build#post_11070464), it's true it's likely to be a better fit.
  
 And I'll be very careful not to switch them a lot, cause good chances are neither will sound right. I'll probably stick with the HD800 for a while.
  


clear water said:


> Interesting.  FlySweep seemed to prefer the Gustard over the V200 because of a larger soundstage, which I think would tend to give a more diffuse presentation.  Not having heard the Crack or the Gustard, I can't make comparisons.  However the V200 is less fatiguing than the Valhalla 2, and the soundstage is slightly (barely noticeable on the recordings I tend to enjoy) smaller.  I find it is a nice compromise.  Not sure what you mean by lacking soul/life, but if you hated the Gustard I doubt the V200 is for you, either.
> 
> I'm also not sure how you can attain both more "oomph" (impact?) while avoiding the fatigue that would seem to accompany it.  Has anyone had success with the 800s in this regard?


 
  
 Well, I may not be using the right word, or at least I don't mean fatigue this way. 
  
 I can see how a T1 could be fatiguing as you mean it over time, in a "stop punching me for a bit, would you?" way, because my brain more than my ears is getting tired of it.
  
 For the Gustard, I meant immediate (bad) pain due to I'm not sure what (high frequencies being treated in a certain fashion?). It's not like the HD800 had became piercing all of a sudden, but my ears were saying no-no. 
 It did get better after a few days the first time I had an HD800, but it was actually still problematic now that I think about it. I already don't have a lot of that with the Crack.
  
 YMMV though. Someone answered on the Gustard H10 topic that he found the T1 to sound very good with it. I, however, couldn't stand the T1 more than 30 minutes before my ears started to bleed internally with the same pairing.


----------



## johnjen

Kyno
 I think I have a suggestion that might help you with getting moar ooomph.
  
 Assuming you are running a s/w player that has dsp built in…
  
 Try adding some low frequency boost using a parametric EQ with these numbers as starters…
  
 Freq = 18 (15 to 18Hz is the range I use)
 bandwidth (Q) = 0.18 (0.16 to 0.18)
 gain = 4dB (3 to 4.5dB)
  
 These of course can be adjusted up or down to suit
  
 See if this helps add moar ooomph…
  
 JJ


----------



## pearljam50000

Has anyone done the Anax mod and gone back to stock? I mean I find it weird that a headphone that has been designed for 7 years can be improved by a simple mod.


----------



## MickeyVee

Yes, I'm there with the McIntosh MXA70 (=MHA100).  Superb dynamics, very fast, smooth extended treble, mids to die for and great deep, punch and fast bass.  Can listen forever across all genres and most recordings.  TBH, I can't ask for anything better and I'm done searching.  YMMV.
  
 Quote:


clear water said:


> I'm also not sure how you can attain both more "oomph" (impact?) while avoiding the fatigue that would seem to accompany it.  Has anyone had success with the 800s in this regard?


----------



## preproman

pearljam50000 said:


> Has anyone done the Anax mod and gone back to stock? I mean I find it weird that a headphone that has been designed for 7 years can be improved by a simple mod.


 

 Well, I've never did that mod on my pair.  However, I've heard two different pair with that mod.  I will never use that mod on mines.  IMO, it takes away from the soundstage, has less air, also had a veil compared to stock or the pair I have.  I have mine Hardwired with an SAA cable.


----------



## Sorrodje

I'll give my opinion ONLY when I've a true genuine kit approved by Anaxilus himself. IMO the mod has to be very properly made to be really interesting.
  
  
 BTW, i had no real need of any mod yet.


----------



## Priidik

pearljam50000 said:


> Has anyone done the Anax mod and gone back to stock? I mean I find it weird that a headphone that has been designed for 7 years can be improved by a simple mod.



It has been said her before that this mod is easy to get wrong. I have tried at least five different materials for the driver ring alone. Only one worked favorably. Even then it is a bit of a compromize, less air, better defined image.


----------



## icebear

pearljam50000 said:


> .... I mean I find it weird that a headphone that has been designed for 7 years *can be improved by a simple mod.*


 
 "*improved*" is subject for debate I'd think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
 If people don't like the naked truth of the recording, they start putting up cloth
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## zilch0md

pearljam50000 said:


> Has anyone done the Anax mod and gone back to stock? I mean I find it weird that a headphone that has been designed for 7 years can be improved by a simple mod.







preproman said:


> Well, I've never did that mod on my pair.  However, I've heard two different pair with that mod.  I will never use that mod on mines.  IMO, it takes away from the soundstage, has less air, also had a veil compared to stock or the pair I have.  I have mine Hardwired with an SAA cable.




While using the ESS99018 DAC and amp of the OPPO HA-1, before getting the Metrum Octave MkII and, later, the Metrum Aurix, I tried the Anax mod, as documented in Tyll Hertsens video, then tried several other incarnations, and for the same reasons stated by prepoman, I went with a "less is more" mod, following Currawong's lead, to end up with nothing more than a thin layer of self-adhesive felt covering only the flat, metal ring surrounding the driver. This brings down the brightness just a little bit, allowing the HD800 to sound stock, otherwise. But the "Currawong mod" is not a solution in and of itself for using the HD800 with "incompatible" DACs or amps.



http://tinyurl.com/qhoscrw

In my opinion, the HD800 "needs" an NOS DAC and a zero-feedback amp. I say this, admittedly, with very little experience with other solutions that could be just as viable for allowing the HD800 to retain its best characteristics, especially those that distinguish it from other headphones, while also eliminating the signal traits that "irritate" the HD800. I'm not interested in a "fix" that reduces brightness or brittle edginess or fatigue with any accompanying reduction of desirable traits like sound stage, imaging, air, and resolution. 

Tube DACs, tube buffers, or inexpensive tube amps can "fix" the undesirable traits of the HD800 while degrading resolution or distancing the sound stage (i.e. Schiit Valhalla 2) and/or homogenizing the timbre of instruments and/or coloring the frequency response (i.e. Schitt Vali). I believe that only the higher quality tube amps (i.e. Cavalli, DNA, Eddie Current, and maybe a well-appointd Woo WA6SE) can retain a resolution, transparency and neutrality worthy of the HD800. A zero- or at least low-feedback solid state amp, like the Metrum Aurix or even the amazingly affordable, Class A, truly single-ended and thus, inherently low-feedback, NuForce HA-200, in combination with an NOS DAC that retains detail without treble rolloff (i.e. Octave MkII), with none of the digititis, sterility, or glare of an ESS9018 DAC, is for me, a less expensive sure thing than going with the best tube amps - with only the minimalist Currawong mod preserving the uniqueness of the HD800.

Mike


----------



## deuter

I don't have problem with the treble spikes etc. 

And one does not need a tube dac or anything specific.


----------



## gevorg

Don't be afraid of quality EQ to tame down HD800 highs, like FabFilter Pro-Q.


----------



## knowhatimean

pearljam50000 said:


> Has anyone done the Anax mod and gone back to stock? I mean I find it weird that a headphone that has been designed for 7 years can be improved by a simple mod.


 
 You guys need to give these type of statements a rest !
  
 How these headphones perform is directly to the type of music you listen to , how resolved the music is or needs to be & how
 resolving all the equipment you're using with these headphones is ! It's all relative to how "perfect" you & other people seem to think these headphones are !
  
 A simple mod works , simply works because Sennheiser 'didn't' voice these headphones to work as great for ALL types of recorded
 music. A large majority of music does sound great.....but.....not....all (People put the Anax & other mods in , because the HD 800
 "can" work better if you 'get rid of some of the "colorations" Sennheiser "specifically" designed into them ! If you don't hear these
 colorations in what you listen to it's pretty obvious you don't "have to" mod them; They're not being put in for "fashion reasons" at least not by anyone who is capable of thought !)
  
 If you have no desire to change how the 800s sound just enjoy them ! (Do ya think ya just might be insulting some people who
 do think the mods improved things for them...think about it a second !)
  
 On a calmer note I can attest to Jonjen's suggestions several postings back as having very beneficial results !
  
 I know I will be going into JRMC & doing this to my entire music library ! this is just a really nice enhancement to the music


----------



## skeptic

kyno said:


> Well, I've been listening to the HD800 on a Crack+SB (Tung-Sol 5998 & Tungsram E80CC) for the past few days, but I find the sound quite thin, without much weight, and missing bass impact. Did you guys experience the same thing with this combo?


 
  
 Have you had a chance to try different tube combos Kyno?  They really will change the sound quite a bit.  To my ears, hd650's are great with a 5998 and most decent 12au7s, but when I was still running my hd800's with my crack, I found I generally preferred, in terms of the power tube, standard, higher impedance 6080's and 6as7g's to my various lower impedance, higher gain 5998's, 7236's and 7802.  You sacrifice a little deep bass tightness for a little added fullness in midbass.  GEC 6as7g is quite nice if you happen to have one, but not worth breaking the bank for in my opinion.  I have a couple of $5 JAN chatham 6080's that I probably ran just as often as my GEC.  Sampling and selecting the right 12au7 is also significant.  FWIW, I like Tung Sol's (which are cheap) and Amperex with hd800's, but do not like the mullard or clear tops I have on hand quite as well.  Never did the e80cc mod so I can't comment on Tungsram.   
  


pearljam50000 said:


> Has anyone done the Anax mod and gone back to stock? I mean I find it weird that a headphone that has been designed for 7 years can be improved by a simple mod.


 
  
 Sure.  Lots of people report this in the mod thread, and it depends on your amp and source as well.  I generally preferred my anax mod in place when pairing my hd800's with my crack, but found it wasn't necessary, and was more of a sonic detriment than a benefit, when I completed my mainline build (which has more refined trebles, cleaner transients and presumably, lower high order distortion.)


----------



## johnjen

pearljam50000 said:


> Has anyone done the Anax mod and gone back to stock? I mean I find it weird that a headphone that has been designed for 7 years can be improved by a simple mod.


 
 As I wrote elsewhere, what I noticed with the entire series of anax inspired and recommended mods was a significant reduction in what I call Listener Fatigue Factor (LFF). This allowed 2 things to happen at the same time.
 #1 I could crank up the volume (increase the low level details) without discomfort over the long term.
 #2 This meant the bass along with all inner details rose together.
  
 This was a decidely good thing!
  
 And I tried 3 different types of anax mods with v.2 being the last (and best of them IMO)
  
 Each had its strengths and weaknesses but they all helped improve the LFF, which was, at least for me, the real gain.
  
 JJ


----------



## Sorrodje

Colorware Job on my HD800. All matte jet black except screens in Matte Steel grey.


----------



## whirlwind

^^  SEXY ^^
  
 Congrats


----------



## Blackmore

Beautiful, congrats Sorrodje! 
  
 What cable are you using?


----------



## lextek

Nice!


----------



## Sorrodje

Thks mate. Colorware really does a nice job 
  
@Blackmore : I'm using this cable : http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Sennheiser-HD800-Headphone-Cable-Balanced-or-Furutech-1-4-/171704394976 . Cheap, extremely well built and nice look & feel. One of my best purchase.


----------



## preproman

sorrodje said:


> Colorware Job on my HD800. All matte jet black except screens in Matte Steel grey.


 
  
 Really nice camera work....


----------



## reddog

preproman said:


> Really nice camera work....


+1 What he said.


----------



## knowhatimean

Interesting find this morning !
  
 I hadn't used the 'stock' HD 800 cable for awhile so I put it back on this morning for a few hours!
  
 This cable though it has a nice width & depth presentation definitely adds quite a bit of a "Hollowness" characteristic to the sound of whatever very dynamic music you happen to listen to.
  
 Putting the ALO cable back on the sound gains a little more 'body' to it & a lot of that "has to be cavernously wide  at the cost of some players "image density" on the recording" coloration goes away! (Both of these hp cables are nothing more than "filters" that will allow
 different sets of sound characteristics to come through)
  
 As with anything else that matters to me, " actual content trumps image everytime ". For myself it's not ever close ! I'm finding out by the day, that there's just too many "Want's to be Audiophile" values that are fashionable but do little more than stand in the way to getting better sound !
  
 Don't even get me started about the nonsense sound colorations people insist on referring to as "Air" (which there might be too much of between their "ears" if they believe that's what they're hearing, rather than an equipment generated sound to mimic 'liveness' in many equipment designs)
  
 (OMG ! you mean soundstage information doesn't actually exist in "all" recording the way the HD 800 represents it ! "The Sky is Falling")
  
 I wonder how long it will be before some "knuclehead" comes on to post "Some people just don't like "true sound" & my response would be "He,he,he,he,he....(You get the idea !)


----------



## BobG55

sorrodje said:


> Thks mate. Colorware really does a nice job
> 
> @Blackmore : I'm using this cable : http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Sennheiser-HD800-Headphone-Cable-Balanced-or-Furutech-1-4-/171704394976 . Cheap, extremely well built and nice look & feel. One of my best purchase.


 

 Bought the same XLR cable but for my HD6XX from the same guy.  Agree w/U Sorrodje, quote :_ " Cheap, extremely well built and nice look & feel. One of my best purchase."_
 +1


----------



## knowhatimean

johnjen said:


> Kyno
> I think I have a suggestion that might help you with getting moar ooomph.
> 
> Assuming you are running a s/w player that has dsp built in…
> ...


 
 John, we're both aware of how significant of a change this boost can result in. To me (because this seems to affect changes universally with just about any dynamic recording I added this to) it points to some basic dynamic losses are occurring at production mastering stages as the recorded material is being processed !
  
 Now my question (& it's more of a curiosity) ... Did you realize how significant of an effect this 'could' bring about , or did you come that realization as an after effect after playing a few of these files
  
 (Sorry for being too lazy to "email" John ! ; Who knows maybe someone else will get something from this) (You can post it here or
 email it back to me if you prefer)


----------



## RUMAY408

sorrodje said:


> Thks mate. Colorware really does a nice job
> 
> @Blackmore : I'm using this cable : http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Sennheiser-HD800-Headphone-Cable-Balanced-or-Furutech-1-4-/171704394976 . Cheap, extremely well built and nice look & feel. One of my best purchase.


 

 Out of Wisconsin, eBay rating 530+ 3-, cheap and great feedback now thats interesting


----------



## koiloco

knowhatimean said:


> Interesting find this morning !
> 
> I hadn't used the 'stock' HD 800 cable for awhile so I put it back on this morning for a few hours!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Be careful there buddy.  I might be one of those knuckleheads!  I bought the HD800 just because I like the cool look.  Regarding "Air",   I have plenty of it already going out the right way daily.


----------



## pearljam50000

Is anyone using the HD800 mainly for Rock and Metal?


----------



## Kyno

skeptic said:


> Have you had a chance to try different tube combos Kyno?  They really will change the sound quite a bit.  To my ears, hd650's are great with a 5998 and most decent 12au7s, but when I was still running my hd800's with my crack, I found I generally preferred, in terms of the power tube, standard, higher impedance 6080's and 6as7g's to my various lower impedance, higher gain 5998's, 7236's and 7802.  You sacrifice a little deep bass tightness for a little added fullness in midbass.  GEC 6as7g is quite nice if you happen to have one, but not worth breaking the bank for in my opinion.  I have a couple of $5 JAN chatham 6080's that I probably ran just as often as my GEC.  Sampling and selecting the right 12au7 is also significant.  FWIW, I like Tung Sol's (which are cheap) and Amperex with hd800's, but do not like the mullard or clear tops I have on hand quite as well.  Never did the e80cc mod so I can't comment on Tungsram.
> 
> 
> Sure.  Lots of people report this in the mod thread, and it depends on your amp and source as well.  I generally preferred my anax mod in place when pairing my hd800's with my crack, but found it wasn't necessary, and was more of a sonic detriment than a benefit, when I completed my mainline build (which has more refined trebles, cleaner transients and presumably, lower high order distortion.)


 
 Just got a few: 3 different 12AU7, a Tungsram ECC80, the stock 6080WA and a Tung-Sol 5998. I do prefer the 6080WA with the HD800, although I'm not well versed in tubes and the "WA" part may have an importance compared to your 6080's 




  


johnjen said:


> Kyno
> I think I have a suggestion that might help you with getting moar ooomph.
> 
> Assuming you are running a s/w player that has dsp built in…
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the input. I use foobar and SplineEQ32 if I want to EQ, but I fail to see how to enter your parameters in it. I'll look for another one, maybe the Get Pro-Q 2.
  
 On a side note, I've also been listening to the T1. It's almost weird not to hear any harshness coming from it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mids are also very nice. That's a very different beast altogether, I like it, but I can't stand the sparkle in its signature past 20 minutes. Doesn't seem to be something you get rid of, I just don't know yet how much I can get use to it. Even though it's not a painful thing, it still makes me cringe rather quickly for now. The HD800 also has a kind of smoother/relaxing sound I prefer.


----------



## johnjen

kyno said:


> snip
> 
> Thanks for the input. I use foobar and SplineEQ32 if I want to EQ, but I fail to see how to enter your parameters in it. I'll look for another one, maybe the Get Pro-Q 2.
> 
> snip


 
  
 I should have been a bit more precise in my description of EQ, sorry about that.
  
 It needs to be a parametric EQ rather than a fixed bandwidth EQ (1 octave, 1/3rd octave etc.)
  
 If you would like additional info about this I can post up an online calculator that deals with more of the specifics (like the -3dB frequency limits based upon Q and center frequency etc.)
  
 JJ


----------



## Kyno

johnjen said:


> I should have been a bit more precise in my description of EQ, sorry about that.
> 
> It needs to be a parametric EQ rather than a fixed bandwidth EQ (1 octave, 1/3rd octave etc.)
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, FabFilter Pro-Q 2 has the possibility to change the exact settings you wrote so I now see what you mean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I just made a few comparisons, it sounds like an appreciable little change 
  
 The most I hear about the HD800 and test different things, the more it seems to be all about optimizing what's inside the big soundstage rather than fixing the wide signature, which brings something rather unique. I'm also starting to appreciate the relaxed sound, maybe it actually doesn't need too much oomph 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If I was to keep the HD800, I would certainly need to find way to smooth the treble though. That's the most delicate part for me. Every high note has a edge that makes me cringe a little.
  

  
 My right ear hates me after this


----------



## 62ohm

pearljam50000 said:


> Is anyone using the HD800 mainly for Rock and Metal?


 
  
 The vast majority of my music collection is rock. And before you ask this on the other thread, for badly-recorded rock music the treble harshness of the K812 is excruciating while the treble of the HD800 stays clean.


----------



## Clear Water

kyno said:


> Well, FabFilter Pro-Q 2 has the possibility to change the exact settings you wrote so I now see what you mean
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 The audio you posted is on the bright side, but not cringeworthy for me.  What are your listening levels?


----------



## johnjen

knowhatimean said:


> John, we're both aware of how significant of a change this boost can result in. To me (because this seems to affect changes universally with just about any dynamic recording I added this to) it points to some basic dynamic losses are occurring at production mastering stages as the recorded material is being processed !
> 
> Now my question (& it's more of a curiosity) ... Did you realize how significant of an effect this 'could' bring about , or did you come that realization as an after effect after playing a few of these files
> 
> ...


 
  
 To answer your question involves a couple of reference points that should be brought up first.
 #1 Decades ago a friend and I stumbled upon a system that in effect ‘calibrated’ us both.  By that I mean we experienced a system that was so superior to anything we had ever even heard of, let alone actually heard.  It made a deep and lasting impression upon us both such that we both have been working to get back to that degree of musical enjoyment ever since.  It had bass that seemed to originate from the ground and permeated every instrument, every note, everything.
  
 #2 I re-discovered the lowest frequencies that are on some tracks during my exploration of power cables.  Which led me to my current system and my desire to make sure these extreme bass frequencies were ‘available’ to be heard and experienced.
  
 I knew from my ‘calibration’ experience that if this essential element were missing that I would never be able to recreate the effects of my original ‘calibration’ experience.  So I knew it was vital to make sure the extreme bottom end was ‘available’.
  
 And this latest experiment of adding an extreme low frequency boost, required the use of DSP which wasn’t available using JRMC until I changed from using ethernet to the USB as the data path from my computer into the DAC.  And once the USB data path was at least ‘up to par’ with the ethernet path, THEN I could ‘play around’ with DSP.
  
 Indeed the change from CAT7 to USB cables necessitated this low end boost, because the very bottom of the bottom did ‘dry up’ a tad.  Which I found ‘strange’ at the time and still do.
 So I added the settings I have posted previously and the extreme bottom came back quite nicely.
  
 As to “Did you realize how significant of an effect this 'could' bring about”, yes I did due to being ‘calibrated’ all those decades ago.
 I realized back then and have reaffirmed it with my current system, that when the extreme bottom end is ‘allowed’ to come thru, all sorts of additional benefits come along with this capability.  It has been the focus of much of my experiments and a primary deciding factor in whether a change was actually an improvement or not.
 In fact the Shunyata cables I now use didn’t ‘measure up’ to my DIY 'reference' cables that I had at the time in this one regard, even after many hundreds of hours of use.
 Until I cooked them.  
 Then after using them for many more hours, the bass did ‘measure up’.
  
 And yes the mastering process in many cases does seem to ‘cut off’ much of the extreme bottom end. 
 But when the very bottom end does present itself, it usually also affects the rest of the recording. Or as you put it “because this seems to affect changes universally with just about any dynamic recording”.  
 The effect that the extreme low bass can have on every instrument can be easily heard IF the system is capable of presenting this extreme low frequency information in the first place.  
 Put another way, if the system ‘gets out of it’s own way’ and lets this extreme low frequency info thru, every instrument indeed the entire recording benefits as a result.  
  
 And it doesn’t just happen by plugging in this or that piece of gear.  
 But it does require equipment that can ‘handle’ these extreme low frequencies in the first place along with the rest of entire system.
 At least that hasn’t been my experience anyways.
  
 And in this case a fairly small and seemingly innocuous boost of the very lowest frequencies can have very satisfying results.  
 It wouldn’t seem so, at least on a cursory perusal.
 But it’s easy enough to try to see if it is of any benefit, or not.
 And it is as easily reversed if the results are unsatisfactory.
  
 JJ


----------



## knowhatimean

Thank you,John ! We might be getting a little off track with all this, but the truth of the matter is if you have a set of headphones with the capabilities of the HD800 , why not explore the possibilities of raising the level of whatever your source material happens to be !
  
 JRMC is a wonderful & (I'm finding) indispensable "Audio Tool" that has any number of adjustment parameters within it ! It allows you to adjust sound characteristics of what you're listening to , that you may have taken as "It is what it is" to something you may not have realized it could be ! I wonder how many people using JRMC are just using as their player ?
  
 The funny thing is , I installed it as a music file processing center as I discovered during my download trial period, that I was able to do somethings with my music files that were absolutely adding enhancement to them with no artificiality. I would then place those files on hard drives which I move to my Auraliti PK100 digital file player. I'm pretty 'Old School' so I'm not a fan of using USB DACs,my DFP plays the files off of USB Drives but outputs them through a BNC to my DAC !
  
 Is anyone aware of a way that I could interface JRMC onto my DFP ? It would a lot easier to be able to use the Parametric EQ in it"on the fly" rather than as "library tool" function on my files already on the drives !
  
 .


----------



## Kyno

clear water said:


> The audio you posted is on the bright side, but not cringeworthy for me.  What are your listening levels?


 
  
 Low to mid, my volume is usually more on the quiet side than high & grandiose. But year, even then, past 3 minutes on this track and my ear took a beating. I'm quite treble sensitive though. I remember someone asking over the Gustard H10 how was the pairing with the T1, someone else answer along the line of "just fine"... while I couldn't take it more than 30 minutes without my ears starting to bleed internally


----------



## Clear Water

kyno said:


> Low to mid, my volume is usually more on the quiet side than high & grandiose. But year, even then, past 3 minutes on this track and my ear took a beating. I'm quite treble sensitive though. I remember someone asking over the Gustard H10 how was the pairing with the T1, someone else answer along the line of "just fine"... while I couldn't take it more than 30 minutes without my ears starting to bleed internally


 
 If you're that sensitive to treble, maybe you should just try a simple notch filter on any parametric EQ.  Keeps all the nice qualities but eliminates the bleeding.


----------



## Rayzilla

I am not sure if this has been brought up here before but I thought it was pretty cool to see how it works.
 http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/12/8026755/put-on-headphones-and-hear-new-york-city-in-3d-audio


----------



## HiFiChris

rayzilla said:


> I am not sure if this has been brought up here before but I thought it was pretty cool to see how it works.
> http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/12/8026755/put-on-headphones-and-hear-new-york-city-in-3d-audio


 
 Pretty nice indeed. If you want more, just search for "binaural recording".
  
 There are also some binaural music recordings out there (for example "Dr.Chesky's Sensational, Fantastic Binaural Sound Show", released by Chesky Records).


----------



## deuter

Bringing interest back to the hd800, the detail is immense compared to the rest of my headphones. Dynamics are more emphasised. 
And this is what I hear compared to the th900 and the ps1000.


----------



## Sorrodje

For those interested , I tried an Audiovalve RKV mkII this sunday.  I had read somewhere that this amp was slow, tubey but that's not what My ears said to me. The resul with the HD800 is great, not slow, not muddy. Clear and fast with a great sense of resolution and detail. Slight engaging bass boost and sparkle in the treble . Typical OTL Clarity.  A great match with the HD800 Maybe a bit agressive/fatiguing. In comparison the DNA Sonett is warmer/smoother , less detailed and more forgiving for average recordings.
  
 The RKV does not match the DNA sense of intimacy and the textures of voices and acoustic intruments ( Solo Violin, cello, piano reveal clearly this point) . the RKV offers a more precise, sparkling and punchy sound .
  
 my 2 cents


----------



## Blackmore

While never tried any OTL based amps with HD800, but have read that they do very well together.
  
 THX for the info.
  
 Quote:


sorrodje said:


> For those interested , I tried an Audiovalve RKV mkII this sunday.  I had read somewhere that this amp was slow, tubey but that's not what My ears said to me. The resul with the HD800 is great, not slow, not muddy. Clear and fast with a great sense of resolution and detail. Slight engaging bass boost and sparkle in the treble . Typical OTL Clarity.  A great match with the HD800 Maybe a bit agressive/fatiguing. In comparison the DNA Sonett is warmer/smoother , less detailed and more forgiving for average recordings.
> 
> The RKV does not match the DNA sense of intimacy and the textures of voices and acoustic intruments ( Solo Violin, cello, piano reveal clearly this point) . the RKV offers a more precise, sparkling and punchy sound .
> 
> my 2 cents


----------



## Sorrodje

@Blackmore: it definitely worth a try if you have the opportunity. I'd like to read your opinion and see if our impressions match.


----------



## Blackmore

Need to check shops or dealer who may loan one first, dont think its just sits there and wait for me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Quote:


sorrodje said:


> @Blackmore: it definitely worth a try if you have the opportunity. I'd like to read your opinion and see if our impressions match.


----------



## pearljam50000

What's the best solution for storing the HD800? It's really annoying they don't come in a wooden box ):
A box or stand? I only have a 50$ budget, so if anyone has any idea, thanks.


----------



## yates7592

Pelican 1300 is ideal.


----------



## knowhatimean

Guitar Center carries a Pelican equivalent line called SKB (They appear to be the same cases)


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> What's the best solution for storing the HD800? *It's really annoying they don't come in a wooden box ):*
> A box or stand? I only have a 50$ budget, so if anyone has any idea, thanks.


 
  
 Why? For utilitarian purposes, the stock cardboard case it comes with would serve just the same purpose as a wooden box. I personally keep mine in the box it came with. It's the cheapest storage option and keeps the HD800 safe from scratches and dust. Pelicans are good if you're travelling around a lot. For home use, the box it came with works just fine.
  
 I had a Room Headphone stand for my LCD-3 but I probably won't get it again for the HD800. Only the Klutz looks sexy enough for the HD800.


----------



## thomascrown

I used to store mine in the pelican case, a' la audeze, even if they never left my living room, but it was annoying to open it so I decided for an hippocase from amazon.


----------



## pearljam50000

I'm not sure cardboard can block dust...


zoom25 said:


> Why? For utilitarian purposes, the stock cardboard case it comes with would serve just the same purpose as a wooden box. I personally keep mine in the box it came with. It's the cheapest storage option and keeps the HD800 safe from scratches and dust. Pelicans are good if you're travelling around a lot. For home use, the box it came with works just fine.
> 
> I had a Room Headphone stand for my LCD-3 but I probably won't get it again for the HD800. Only the Klutz looks sexy enough for the HD800.


----------



## bearFNF

I use a Woo headphone stand for at home and a large hippocase for the road. At home I keep all the gear covered with cloths to keep the dust from settling on it.


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> I'm not sure cardboard can block dust...




This easily blocks dust http://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/sennheiser/images/hd800/D3S_4332-in-box-1200.jpg


----------



## sujitsky

pearljam50000 said:


> What's the best solution for storing the HD800? It's really annoying they don't come in a wooden box ):
> A box or stand? I only have a 50$ budget, so if anyone has any idea, thanks.


 
  
 I use this : http://www.amazon.com/HippoCase-Headphone-Sennheiser-Beyerdynamic-DT880pro/dp/B00FMFBU16/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1426539203&sr=8-1&keywords=hd800+case


----------



## akhyar

pearljam50000 said:


> What's the best solution for storing the HD800? It's really annoying they don't come in a wooden box ):
> A box or stand? I only have a 50$ budget, so if anyone has any idea, thanks.


 
  
 SO finally you bought the HD800? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Congrats!
  
 Agree with the above poster on the large Hippo case.
 Got it free from Jaben Singapore when I purchased the HD800 early last year.
 It can fit in the HD800 but you might have to remove the stock cable to zip it.


----------



## Zoom25

akhyar said:


> *SO finally you bought the HD800?*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The day pearl gets HD800 will be a historical milestone in this thread.


----------



## akhyar

zoom25 said:


> The day pearl gets HD800 will be a historical milestone in this thread.


 

Lol!
I can also hear "Amen!" at AKG812 thread


----------



## Zoom25

akhyar said:


> Lol!
> I can also hear "Amen!" at AKG812 thread


 

 LOL I don't follow that thread. I take it classic Pearl there as well.
  
 (Pearl, seriously, just do it. You know you want to.)


----------



## Blackmore

Think its only the beginning, as he ( pearljam50000 ), will always wonder what K812 may do better or worse v.s. HD800, however, still not sure if he got them or not?


----------



## 62ohm

Then there's the inevitable and imminent torrent of questions in search of the 'best' amp/dac synergy.


----------



## White Lotus

I use these two stands. When I need to store the HD800, I stick it in the box that it came with. It's nice and cozy with all of that silk.
  
 On the left: Fischer Audio "The Curve"
  
 On the right: Wooden Omega stand.


----------



## Sorrodje

I think many of us and many other people in the K812 would be immediately ready to join our efforts and pay a K812 and a HD800 to pearl.... Anything as long as it stops asking again and again the same questions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 We're more numerous here though. So it would be cheaper for each of us. the HD800 wins one more time.


----------



## HiFiChris

white lotus said:


> I use these two stands. When I need to store the HD800, I stick it in the box that it came with. It's nice and cozy with all of that silk.


 
 Sweet. I guess the Omega is covered with walnut veneer?
 That method (Sieveking Omega walnut + original box) is ecactly the way I store my HD800. Imo, the Omega stand is the sexiest headphone stand out there unless you make one yourself.


----------



## akhyar

Just be careful when using those Omega wooden stand.
  
 I was using the cheap eBay imitation stand (*i.e. NOT Sieveking*) and left my HD800 on it for more than 2 weeks as I was overseas.
 When I removed the HD800 from the stand, there were some residues from the headband and ear cups left on the stand.
 Tried to remove the residues with warm water but to no avail.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Room's is the better stand as the pads do not touch anything and can just dry "naturally". I am not a fan of sweat touching anything and staying there. At least let it dry for a while and then put it on.


----------



## Zoom25

sorrodje said:


> I think *many of us* and many other people in the K812 *would be immediately ready to join our efforts and pay a* K812 and a HD800 to pearl.... *Anything as long as it stops asking again and again the same questions*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Excuse me while I go and annoy the folks on the SR-009 thread. Fingers crossed


----------



## zoo88

*HD800 First Impressions*
  
 I've had the HD800s for 5 days now. Sound-wise, I love them. They are much clearer than the HD600s and HD650s, my former go-to headphones. I've heard new details in a couple of my favorite tracks. I have not noticed the two complaints that I've heard about from others: harsh trebble or insufficient bass.
  
 My biggest shock with the HD800s was how they fit, not how they sound. They are much larger than I would've guessed and quite loose. My head is not small, but if I tilt it too far they'll fall right off. Sudden movements can cause them to shift around. While this is slightly annoying, I won't complain as long as they sound good. The material is very interesting, and I'm glad that they don't have a death-grip. The headband feels a bit odd as though it's at a weird angle, but maybe I just haven't gotten used to it yet. Overall, I can see how people say that you almost forget that they're on your head, although I have a little more adjusting to do before I get to that stage. I don't really feel the pads on my head, so it's just the weight and the headband that remain to be forgotten.
  
 I'm currently driving them via my old Headstage Arrow G3 + USB DAC. It easily has enough power without having to increase the gain switch from the lowest setting. At some point, once I'm more used to them, I'd like to acquire another DAC/Amp to try out, just to see what difference there is. I'm not one of those people who believes he needs a $1000 amp, so I'd probably try an ODAC/Objective2 Amp or something else very neutral.
  
 I haven't done a side-by-side comparison to my other headphones yet. I've been enjoying the HD800s so much that I haven't felt the desire to go back to anything else. I can already predict that the HD650s will have a darker sound -- something that I always liked the HD650s over the HD600s for in the past, so it will be interesting to see how I rate them in direct comparison to these. Something tells me that the larger and clearer soundstage of the HD800 will be like night and day....


----------



## Bartez75

zoo88 said:


> *HD800 First Impressions*
> 
> I've had the HD800s for 5 days now. Sound-wise, I love them. They are much clearer than the HD600s and HD650s, my former go-to headphones. I've heard new details in a couple of my favorite tracks. I have not noticed the two complaints that I've heard about from others: harsh trebble or insufficient bass.
> 
> ...


 

 Congrat. So you have HD800 and HD650 same as me. I think it is good to have both just to have a possibility to switch the sound. HD650 are better for poor records but are also great with great records. HD800 are probably not that good for poor records.


----------



## lukeap69

zoom25 said:


> The day pearl gets HD800 will be a historical milestone in this thread.




Hahahaha


----------



## knowhatimean

zoom25 said:


> >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I didn't realize he was a "Serial Poster" (You've heard of "serial killers", well now we have posters like that. The difference being they're
 just "killer annoying")
  
 The "light of recognition" didn't come on for me until the ' cardboard can't block dust ' comment ! I've found one of the best "pest" pesticides is to simply not respond to semi coherent babbling that come from them !


----------



## pearljam50000

lol
i read your comments.
Thank you friends for the help and support!
i still have not bought them,i'm waiting for a deal (black friday for example)
Yes sorry i do post alot but its purely out of passion and wanting to know more. And its hard to explain because of the language barrier.
anywas people on head- fi are truly great and kind ( except "knowhatimean" )


----------



## 62ohm

pearljam50000 said:


> lol
> i read your comments.
> Thank you friends for the help and support!
> i still have not bought them,i'm waiting for a deal (black friday for example)
> ...


 
  
 Pay with credit card and worry later.


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> lol
> i read your comments.
> Thank you friends for the help and support!
> i still have not bought them,i'm waiting for a deal (black friday for example)
> ...


 

 I don't think you can really learn anything more significant about the HD 800 without directly gaining first hand experience. You have pretty much exhausted all written resources over the past year or so. The only way to learn anything meaningful at this point is to buy it. If you're planning to get the HD 800 on Black Friday, make sure both your DAC and headphone amp are up to it. If they are not, DO NOT buy the HD 800. With Hifimans in the early stages when I didn't have the best rig, I was able to get away with a low-mid fi rig for a few months. With HD 800, you simply cannot do this. This headphone has way too much resolution to deal with crap hardware. Everything from 0.5 db EQ increments to hardware changes makes VERY audible changes.
  
 If you don't have something solid before that, you will be disappointed again like last time when you hooked them up to a MP3 player. If you can't swing that for the HD 800, I'd highly suggest LCD-2s. Or you know, try active monitors. You could get LSR305 and Emotiva Stealth DC-1 combined for less than HD 800 and still have a blast. All I am saying is: Don't half-ass HD 800s. You will regret it.
  
 Well that's all I got it.


----------



## Mach3

There seem to be alot of company that allow you to trial products for 30 days. Use your credit card and order the best amp and dac. It will only cost you pstage to trial out top of the line equipment.


----------



## johnjen

pearljam50000 said:


> lol
> i read your comments.
> Thank you friends for the help and support!
> i still have not bought them,i'm waiting for a deal (black friday for example)
> ...


 
 Here is an anology that might prove useful.
  
 Your current car is a vanilla chevy something.
  
 Now you want a hi-perf sports car.
  
 But you've never driven a porsche, or lambo, or a lotus before.
 You may have heard of 4 wheel drifting, or steering with your right foot, you may have even seen a utube video, but that is not the same thing as driving the car and perfecting what it takes to do these things.
  
 So you ask around about tires and insurrance and who can work on it etc. trying to get a handle on what is gunna be required to run and maintain your dream car.
  
 Everyone tells you don't go cheap, on anything.  
 While that worked on your current ride it simply won't work on the car of your dreams.
  
 Same thing with the 800's.
 They will sound like the source signal fed them.
 Most blame the 800's when all that is heard are the deficiencies of the upstream gear that is being fed into the 800's.
  
 As a long term, build up your system approach to achieving totl sound, this approach works, but until the 800's are fed a 'suitable' signal, the experience will far less than what they are capable, and perhaps far less than is acceptable.
  
 IOW they CAN sound like a**, especially if the upstream electronics have been selected to help deal with the deficiencies of the previous system, to which the 800's are now plugged into.
  
 What you will hear are the 'colorings' used to counter-balance the 'undesireable' aspects of the previous system, with exacting and stark detail, all in hi resolution and in no uncertain terms.
  
 This can be a recipe for quite an unsatisfying experinece, to say the least.
 Or not.
 Sometimes a perfectly satisfactory system that doesn't sound like a** can be assembled that is perfectly satisfactory, but at the same time isn't pushing the upper end of SQ.
  
 There is a reason why folks make recommendations about certain gear that work well with the 800, based upon their desired acoustic preferences.
 And yeah most of it (but not all) is expensive.
 That's what attaining TOTL levels of performance, more or less requires. 
 Which is also where the saying "Sorry about your wallet" comes from.
  
  
 JJ


----------



## Zoom25

^ True. Haven't been able to find a middle ground with HD 800 yet. Either completely amazing or down right unbearable. Can't get a so-so performance like with planars or other dynamics.


----------



## johnjen

There are a few decent low cost amps and front ends (especially used) that work well with 800's but it also depends upon what your own tastes (type of music, sources, etc.) are to begin with.
  
 And most don't start using 800's with a clean slate.
 By that I mean they already have an amp/dac/player, which can further muddy the transitional waters, so to speak…
  
 JJ


----------



## erikfreedom

never modded my hd 800. they are bone stock right down to the cable. had a moon audio deluxe black dragon, still have the cable, but will never use it again. nothing wrong with it. it is a fine cable. it's just that I prefer my hd 800 bone stock right now. the only thing I do is give it a 6db bass boost at 80hz on the speaker properties panel of my computer. it is very simple, gives good bottom end to my hd 800 and tame highs a bit while keeping the soundstage. I am a bit treble sensitive. this little bass boost is good for my ears. makes the hd 800 enjoyable with all kind of musics for me.


----------



## thecrow

I'm listening to my hd800s with a simple odac and O2. Also listening with a portable amp of the cayin c5 that accentuates the upper mids a bit too. And......loving it. 

I know that the hd800s will be even better and more silky and textured when I audition amps (that will best suit my prefs) in the future but there is nothing wrong in what I'm getting from listening with my cheaper gear. 

And some of my current music sounds better than others, depending on what was put onto the cd, but I am definitely enjoying my hd800s. And I'm getting out of my hd800s character that I could not get from other headphones I auditioned.


----------



## pearljam50000

Can the  odac and O2 give me let's say 80% of what real high- end can give? if so , i'll be happy with it for life i think.
 That's the most i can spend on amp /Dac.


----------



## knowhatimean

pearljam50000 said:


> lol
> i read your comments.
> Thank you friends for the help and support!
> i still have not bought them,i'm waiting for a deal (black friday for example)
> ...


 
 Well, I suppose I was a bit "rough", but I was under the impression that you were just on this thread "Trolling" to see what kind of
 "trouble" you could stir up. I wasn't aware there was a "language barrier" problem on your part & you weren't just trying to poke fun at people with some of your comments & questions.! I apologize for my misunderstanding your situtation !
  
 I do have a "serious" comment to make though that may also be of use to others. Seeing as how you are looking to get these headphones "on a deal" tells that you may be better served with a less "pricey" set of headphones. I say this due to the fact, that with some of your questions, you may not have the other "pieces" of equipment in place to get the benefits of using these headphones !
  
 Were it myself, I would think about what type of sound qualities for the type of music I listened to most of the time & start my own thread asking what suggestions for headphones people had for this music. It's a bit harder to start with the HD800 & then build your listening system around them !
  
 Once again , I'm sorry if  I offended you & good luck with this , as I jumped to an incorrect assumption about your postings (Just remember it might be easier "not" to start with these headphones)


----------



## johnjen

zoo88 said:


> *HD800 First Impressions*
> 
> snip
> 
> ...


 
 One thing to 'play with' in terms of how they sit on your head…
  
 Move the ear cups forward on your head and then rotate the headband forward so it sits on the forward half of the top of your head.
  
 See if that helps them 'sit better' and sound better as well.
  
 JJ


----------



## pearljam50000

@
knowhatimean 
 It's OK all is forgiven ^_^


----------



## 62ohm

pearljam50000 said:


> Can the  odac and O2 give me let's say 80% of what real high- end can give? if so , i'll be happy with it for life i think.
> That's the most i can spend on amp /Dac.


 
  
 The O2/ODAC is supposed to sound exactly the same as the Benchmark DAC1, and plugged directly to the Benchmark DAC1 I would have to say it sounds strident and harsh. It's okay for short-time listening, but I don't think I can listen to it for a very long time..


----------



## knowhatimean

Another little "trick" to increase the HD800 clamping pressure  slightly (In addition to moving them foward on your head) is gently tighten the radius bend of the headband !
  
 With your thumbs extended underneath the headband, space your thumbs so that they meet at the center of the headband. place your hands as you would on top of the headband like you place your hands on handle bars.
  
 Now while keeping your thumbs touching each other (fully extended) while keeping them in place, pull both hands down slowly & evenly (keep the bands radius) a tiny bit, stop & check the fit after each little bend until you feel a a little more clamping pressure !
  
 Naturally, you want to retain the original radius as much as possible ! Take your time & apply only enough pressure for the band to slowly flex small increments (If you're not patient you might be better leaving this alone,but it's not that hard)


----------



## Mach3

pearljam50000 said:


> @
> knowhatimean
> It's OK all is forgiven ^_^


 

 I think I have a clear understanding of your situation. You want caviar, but your budget only allows for Mcdonalds.


----------



## thecrow

62ohm said:


> The O2/ODAC is supposed to sound exactly the same as the Benchmark DAC1, and plugged directly to the Benchmark DAC1 I would have to say it sounds strident and harsh. It's okay for short-time listening, but I don't think I can listen to it for a very long time..




I never found the hd800s harsh. But I can understand how some might. 

I have found that the O2 and odac offer an easy listening, inviting, soft element (loosely speaking from memory I felt the same impression when I heard the hd600s) but with the soundstage and definition of the hd800.

It still sounds like the hd800s. Unlike the impression I have been left with with other amps at the same price point

I'm happy with what I've got and looking forward to upgrading my set up in the future around my hd800s.


If I wasn't going to upgrade my set up in the future I'd be doing myself a disservice. I certainly know where my next $500-$1000 in audio expenditure is going. I just need to choose the amp and/or dac


----------



## BleaK

zoom25 said:


> If you're planning to get the HD 800 on Black Friday, make sure both your DAC and headphone amp are up to it. If they are not, DO NOT buy the HD 800. With Hifimans in the early stages when I didn't have the best rig, *I was able to get away with a low-mid fi rig for a few months. With HD 800, you simply cannot do this.* This headphone has way too much resolution to deal with crap hardware.


 
  
 This statement is simply not true. You can get great sound with HD800 from some low to mid-fi rigs, the key is synergy. A cheap DAC like a used dacmagic, or a modi2/wyrd, with a Vali or Matrix m-stage sounds terrific for a budget rig that just north of 300$.
  
 Heck, even the Valhalla 2 goes for 350$ and has the best synergy with HD800 out of any amps I've tried. Now I just can't see an amp upgrade untill I'm willing to go over 2000$ (exluding tubes).
  
 It's not always about money, or how much a product cost. It's about how the pieces sound together. From players, DACs and amps to headphones.
  
 Yeah, you won't get away plugging your HD800 to your sansa clip, but if you read this thread and are invested in head-fi of some sorts, you already understand that.


----------



## Sorrodje

bleak said:


> This statement is simply not true. You can get great sound with HD800 from some low to mid-fi rigs, the key is synergy. A cheap DAC like a used dacmagic, or a modi2/wyrd, with a Vali or Matrix m-stage sounds terrific for a budget rig that just north of 300$.
> 
> Heck, even the Valhalla 2 goes for 350$ and has the best synergy with HD800 out of any amps I've tried. Now I just can't see an amp upgrade untill I'm willing to go over 2000$ (exluding tubes).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Match my own experience. = +1


----------



## kapanak

bleak said:


> This statement is simply not true. You can get great sound with HD800 from some low to mid-fi rigs, the key is synergy. A cheap DAC like a used dacmagic, or a modi2/wyrd, with a Vali or Matrix m-stage sounds terrific for a budget rig that just north of 300$.
> 
> Heck, even the Valhalla 2 goes for 350$ and has the best synergy with HD800 out of any amps I've tried. Now I just can't see an amp upgrade untill I'm willing to go over 2000$ (exluding tubes).
> 
> ...


 

 Agreed completely. HD800 sounds like the HD800 no matter what source you connect it to, as long as the same (quality) material is played through. It won't suddenly sound like Beats Studio just because you connected it to a phone or a regular DAC/Amp or even directly off your computer sound card lol
  
 However, it only has synergy with select few amps, and you've mentioned the best ones under $1000


----------



## akhyar

pearljam50000 said:


> Can the  odac and O2 give me let's say 80% of what real high- end can give? if so , i'll be happy with it for life i think.
> That's the most i can spend on amp /Dac.




Like some previous posters mentioned, you can start with Schitt Vali or Matric M-Stage if budget is a concerned.


----------



## 62ohm

thecrow said:


> I never found the hd800s harsh. But I can understand how some might.
> 
> I have found that the O2 and odac offer an easy listening, inviting, soft element (loosely speaking from memory I felt the same impression when I heard the hd600s) but with the soundstage and definition of the hd800.
> 
> ...




Well I'd tell you this: I used to think the HD800's treble sounds harsh until I owned the K812. Makes me realize how good this headphone is, not even AKG can match it..


----------



## cocolinho

bleak said:


> This statement is simply not true. You can get great sound with HD800 from some low to mid-fi rigs, the key is synergy. A cheap DAC like a used dacmagic, or a modi2/wyrd, with a Vali or Matrix m-stage sounds terrific for a budget rig that just north of 300$.
> 
> Heck, even the Valhalla 2 goes for 350$ and has the best synergy with HD800 out of any amps I've tried. Now I just can't see an amp upgrade untill I'm willing to go over 2000$ (exluding tubes).
> 
> ...


 
 +1
 I was using Dacmagic + Vali and it was an enjoyable experience. Now I still have the Vali (waiting for Valhalla 2 to be available) and a Bifrost uber, the combo is VERY good sounding!
 I feel like Bifrost uber + Valhalla 2 being my end game for HD800


----------



## Sorrodje

@62ohms : go listen to a Stax treble : can be bright but never harsh  . but I have yet to hear a Stax who offer the same Impact and weight on fundamentals than the HD800 . there's no perfect heaphone 
  
  
 Vanilla HD800 treble has a very specific hardness that can be bothersome. Depends on listener, Music , recording.  Heard an anax modded HD800 (maybe more close to the Currawon mod that the Currrent anax mod though)  this last sunday . The owner tweaked his mod carefully and the result is really good. the modded HD800 sound exactly like the stock one but without any ssshhhh.  Great work.  On my Sonett , the ssshhh is already tamed but on some other rigs , properly made anax mod does wonder  .


----------



## kapanak

cocolinho said:


> I feel like Bifrost Uber + Valhalla 2 being my end game *for the time being* for HD800


 
 Fixed it for ya'


----------



## Blackmore

Low level volume listening helps a lot, just dont go loud, however, we all like that sometimes


----------



## cocolinho

kapanak said:


> Fixed it for ya'


 
 ahahah ... don't think so. I believe I need to spend much more than 1K per element to really upgrade from my Schiit, so no way


----------



## BleaK

cocolinho said:


> +1
> I was using Dacmagic + Vali and it was an enjoyable experience. Now I still have the Vali (waiting for Valhalla 2 to be available) and a Bifrost uber, the combo is VERY good sounding!
> I feel like Bifrost uber + Valhalla 2 being my end game for HD800


 
  
 I seriously think that with Uberfrost/Valhalla 2 combo many can just call it quits and be extremely happy with the HD800.


----------



## johnjen

A quick note.
  
 There is a group of folks who want/need to explore the scaleability of the HD800.
  
 This 'search' can lead to some 'discordant' combinations which can provide screech, in full hi-res definition.
  
 Exploring these 'rarefied' extremes usually demands carefull attention to details and selection of ancillary gear.
  
 Just say'n is all…
  
 JJ
 ps also since these are high impedance phones, an OTL tube amp is (or can be) a wonderful mating.
 The Bottlehead crack amp (a kit that you assemble) is reputed to be a very good match with 800's and the circuit is about as simple as you can get.
 http://bottlehead.com/?product=crack-otl-headphone-amplifier-kit
 Just a thought…


----------



## Sorrodje

johnjen said:


> A quick note.
> 
> There is a group of folks who want/need to explore the scaleability of the HD800.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Agreed.
  
 The point is not to say that a bifrost/Valhalla is the last word. The point is there's no need of an expensive hi end system to enjoy the HD800.


----------



## BleaK

sorrodje said:


> Agreed.
> 
> The point is not to say that a bifrost/Valhalla is the last word. The point is there's no need of an expensive hi end system to enjoy the HD800.


 
  
 Exactly!


----------



## Currawong

sorrodje said:


> For those interested , I tried an Audiovalve RKV mkII this sunday.  I had read somewhere that this amp was slow, tubey but that's not what My ears said to me. The resul with the HD800 is great, not slow, not muddy. Clear and fast with a great sense of resolution and detail. Slight engaging bass boost and sparkle in the treble . Typical OTL Clarity.  A great match with the HD800 Maybe a bit agressive/fatiguing. In comparison the DNA Sonett is warmer/smoother , less detailed and more forgiving for average recordings.
> 
> The RKV does not match the DNA sense of intimacy and the textures of voices and acoustic intruments ( Solo Violin, cello, piano reveal clearly this point) . the RKV offers a more precise, sparkling and punchy sound .
> 
> my 2 cents


 
  
 I owned an RKV MKII for a while and indeed it was a good match with the HD-800s. I had the OPA627 mod in mine. The only downside was that some resolution was lost compared to other amps and the RKV is sensitive to the quality of power supply feeding it, even the power cable. 
  
  


cocolinho said:


> kapanak said:
> 
> 
> > Fixed it for ya'
> ...


 
  
 The advantage of the Valhalla is that it is dedicated to high-impedance cans, so it can be better with those than an amp that is a good all-rounder, without having to be expensive IMO. 
  
 The next amp up I have from the Valhalla 2 is the Studio Six and, well, yeah, it's better. I have on loan a nice amp with is great with the HD-800s, the Japanese Aurorasound HEADA. It is slightly warm and relaxed without losing detail which makes for a lovely match with the HD-800s and the Hugo as a source.


----------



## Sorrodje

The Meier Corda Jazz is a great solid state choice too. Similarly priced than the Valhalla and more versatile. I lived with this one and an old dacmagic. I heard it once more time with and audioGD DAC19 DSP and this amp is darn good.
  
@Currawong : I did not feel too much the lack of resolution of the Rkv.  But it was a short run indeed.


----------



## johnjen

sorrodje said:


> Agreed.
> 
> The point is not to say that a bifrost/Valhalla is the last word. The point is there's no need of an expensive hi end system to enjoy the HD800.


 
 Yes indeed!
  
 But due to this huge degree of scaleability that the 800's allow, there are those who will explore one of these extremes, that being how high is up…? (and I include myself in this group).
  
 Because the thing is the 800's are capable of resolution that can astound.
 But not everyone wants or needs to 'go there'.
  
 This is what I see as why there are sorta 2 camps of 800 users.
  
 Which is in and of itself quite a statement, in that a totl headphone can accommodate this diversity of end results, and do so with only a modicum of difficulty (ya gotta pick 'compatible' components, which isn't exactly an unusual requirement).
  
 But the camp that explores the upper most regions of the scaleability curve, are usually the ones who BMW (bitch moan & whine) the most.  And you would too, after spending good money and wind up with screech aplenty.
  
 JJ


----------



## knowhatimean

johnjen said:


> sorrodje said:
> 
> 
> > Agreed.
> ...


 
 Well, to be totally truthful in a lot of instances a lot of those exploring those "uppermost regions" may have "pockets deep enough" to fund their explorations but not much "insight" as to the necessity of taking a synergistic system building approach !
  
 We learn "system building" through our experience in this hobby ! It's a gradual process where we 'should' be learning what works
 for us or doesn't. I say 'should' because it's not a certainty that everyone is recognizing these things as they step up the "Upgrade Ladder". The thing that is a real detriment to this process is when you come across "Hi-End Audio" salesmen who are somewhat clueless as to putting together demo music systems that  exhibit a sense of "Scalability & Musicality" while you're listening !
  
 On a few occasions lately I've been seriously unimpressed listening to a few setups of equipment that were several times more
 expensive than what I listen through, but looking around at these systems I can see where some "choke points" might be developing!
  
 Without taking a "system" approach , I don't care how much $$$$ you throw at your equipment if some of it is working "against"
 the rest of your setup. & your system should really start "at the wall" if you're serious about having any realistic ability to reach
 "Scalabity"!
  
 Yup, they may have "BMW" pockets , but they might not have much more than "MP3" knowledge


----------



## johnjen

knowhatimean said:


> Well, to be totally truthful in a lot of instances a lot of those exploring those "uppermost regions" may have "pockets deep enough" to fund their explorations but not much "insight" as to the necessity of taking a synergistic system building approach !
> 
> snip
> 
> Yup, they may have "BMW" pockets , but they might not have much more than "MP3" knowledge


 
 Yeah, that certainly is a truism amongst the BBS (big buck spenders) that if they throw $$$$ or $$$$$ at it, they aught to get REAL results…  And undoubtedly they do, and it's just as you mentioned, without the experience it's really hard to know if changes really are improvements, or just changes.
  
 Which brings up another subtle but suitable approach to reach those vaunted heights of audio nirvana…
  
 Select and keep top quality equipment and tweak (tickle?) it till it sings…
  
 This runs counter to the way most explore this hobby but in the long run it is better and cheaper.
 The downside to this approach is the $$ required to jump in are steeper and that doesn't cut it when it’s a matter of tunes or no tunes…
  
 Which is why maxing out early on the 800's is actually a 'wise move' in my book.  'Cause if they work for you, then you can upgrade the upstream gear at a easier pace and can better afford to wait for killer equipment on the used market.  
 That's how I attained my PWD.  
 And it scales right along with the 800's, REALLY well.
  
 That is if you get infected by what the 800's can really do in another system…
 I call this the hook-line-&-sinker approach…
 It starts out as an itch or a compulsion to scratch something that you didn't even know was there…
 And then it starts to grow…  hahahahahaha
  
 JJ


----------



## knowhatimean

It seems like we may have covered this at some point already!
  
 The sad unfortunate truth is that most of us are skeptical by nature & even making small (& many times reversible) "explorations" seems to take more effort , than simply spending more for (assumed) improvements.
  
 I'm sure you heard of "Brick Wall Filtering", well this is also pretty common "human" condition of many Audio "hobbyists that prevents them from "taking ownership" of reaching their highest level of satisfaction in music listening !
  
 Having "sounding boards" like these threads takes away some of the "sting" of listeners "angst" with this or that piece of equipment.
  
 It's nice to have a place where you can be one of the guys "shooting the breeze", but sometimes all it takes is a slight "leap of faith" to try things that end up making a huge difference ! Forget that saying "It is what it is" (yeah, i know i used this in another posting this week;It fits the occasion) & you might just amaze yourself at what it "actually" might be !


----------



## ruthieandjohn

knowhatimean said:


> It seems like we may have covered this at some point already!
> 
> The sad unfortunate truth is that most of us are skeptical by nature & even making small (& many times reversible) explorations seems to take more effort , than simply spending more for (assumed) improvements.
> 
> ...


 

 Good points, all!
  
 Sometimes we don't make small (& many times reversible) explorations is that we hate the sight of blood; i.e., we don't want to cut into our pristine headphones.  So we keep them as is and indeed spend for (assumed) improvements.
  
 Brick wall filtering in electronics is often analogous to blinders in human information intake ("I will NOT consider closed headphones!"), thereby shutting the door to many opportunities for improvement without assessing whether they are better or worse. 
  
 One thing that I have learned from is crowd sourcing our collective wisdom to compare headphones.  See the first link in my signature about "2,000 headphones."  There is a lot of information and even more opinion on "head-fi.org;"  with some effort, thanks to spreadsheet and manual data entry and macros, some overall statistics can be teased out.


----------



## knowhatimean

ruthieandjohn said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > It seems like we may have covered this at some point already!
> ...


 
 Well, I'm glad to see that we agree on one of my points at least, but I think that your slightly "skewed" view of what may be involved in "exploring" things would explain  the general wariness of trying things,as you have an "exaggerated" idea of how harm may come to you or your headphones. Looking at things to try goes beyond just  modifying your headphones, but that will allow any other tweaks you try easier to hear.
  
 I don't know if there is a "collective wisdom" for finding "Scalability" in the music that you listen to , because everyone places different amounts of importance of which parts they hear that is of greater value to them. It's not about the "headphones" as much as what the headphones allow you to "hear" the "dimensionality"of what is going on in the recording.
  
 A lot of the information (most) I see relayed about headphones are "generic terms" that are of little interest to myself as I'm not looking to compare headphones.
  
 Simply put we're not talking about having interest in the same processes , as these aren't at all in this particular scenario
  
  
 .


----------



## skeptic

pearljam50000 said:


> Can the  odac and O2 give me let's say 80% of what real high- end can give? if so , i'll be happy with it for life i think.
> That's the most i can spend on amp /Dac.


 
  
 Fraid not, in my opinion.  O2 is just not a great match with hd800 or hd650's for that matter.  I'm not an O2 hater either.  Built my own and later built and added agdr's cool booster board, which reduces offset and distortion, increases transient current, and, along with a dual lme49990 in the gain stage, gives you 10x the slew rate among other benefits, making it sort of a transportable "wire."  Sounds very good and clean with most low ohm phones, sensitive planars, and even dt880's, but it makes Senn's sound thin and a little lifeless  (to my ears, ymmv, yada yada).  Frankly, the unremarkable headphone out on my marantz htr is far more enjoyable to me with hd800's.
  
 If a good tube amp is out of your reach for now, I'd take a look at purrin's list of recommended hd800 amps over on chang*.  (Google "best hd800 amps" and see second nonsponsored link).  He has quite a list and nice concise descriptions of what you might expect at various price points.  Vali and mstage are two cheap options that get lots of positive reviews, but I haven't heard either personally.  For a little more, and if you're willing to do some soldering yourself or buy used, the beezar torpedo would be what I would buy in your shoes.  It is a baby parafeed tube amp (like the mainline and L-2), designed by Doug at ECP  who really knows his stuff.  My 2c fwiw.


----------



## Arnotts

I've been listening to the HD800's for the past few days (along with the LCD-X's and LCD-2's). 
  
 It's very interesting how it offers such a different presentation compared to the Audeze headphones, yet all three offer beautiful, high quality sound.
  
 It's also very interesting how fantastic the HD800's sound from the Gustard U12 --> M-Stage DAC --> M-Stage amp. I haven't done a proper comparison yet, but it seems like it could be on par with, if not a little bit more musical sounding, than the Gustard X12 + Gustard H10. The Gustard's seem to sound better with the planars, though .


----------



## BobJS

I'm sorry, but after reading the last couple of pages, I can't get this imagery out of my head of a room full of people all simultaneously making "air quotes" at each other, each getting more animated than the previous.  I need to work on my "attention span".


----------



## dynarec

I've had my HD800's for about 2 years now and I've been using them with a Matrix M-Stage amp.  For me, this is end game, I have no reason or desire to upgrade to anything else, I'm happy with the sound, which should be the point right?  Each to their own I guess.   Love them.


----------



## Sorrodje

I should plan to launch a user survey about the HD800  in order we can know the real state of what's really used with the Senn and what are different end game set up for those different owners ...


----------



## pearljam50000

What would you say is the point of diminishing returns when it comes to DACs and amps with HD800?
As someone here said, I'm on a McDonald's budget(thanks for the insult) and I can't really afford anything high end.
Th


----------



## akhyar

pearljam50000 said:


> What would you say is the point of diminishing returns when it comes to DACs and amps with HD800?
> As someone here said, I'm on a McDonald's budget(thanks for the insult) and I can't really afford anything high end.
> Th


 
  
 Isn't it kind of subjective? It's kind of open ended question to me.
 Some users can be happy with O2/Odac combo while others with mega budget might not bat an eyelid to spend on amp/DAC few times the price of the HD800.
   
End of the day, it's your ears (and your wallet) that can decide for you.


----------



## 62ohm

sorrodje said:


> I should plan to launch a user survey about the HD800  in order we can know the real state of what's really used with the Senn and what are different end game set up for those different owners ...


 
  
 Well I 'thought' the HDVA 600 would be my end game amp, but at the moment I am trying to work out if I can get the Ragnarok, which would cost roughly $2700 USD to get here in NZ...


----------



## knowhatimean

pearljam50000 said:


> What would you say is the point of diminishing returns when it comes to DACs and amps with HD800?
> As someone here said, I'm on a McDonald's budget(thanks for the insult) and I can't really afford anything high end.
> Th


 
 Just out of curiosity , what are you currently using (If you don't mind revealing) for music listening ?
  
 There might be a possibility that you can use some of what you're already using . Don't be "too" concerned about how "Hi End"
 something you'll be using with the HD800 is at this point ! Just try to find equipment that works well for whatever you prefer listening to
  
 He,he, he,.... It's pretty hard to predict what the point of diminishing returns will be for anyone, particularly when they've yet to have any amount time with what it is they're interested in. How well somethings work for you is a "call" that you'll have to make at after you've had the chance to use something for a while.
  
 Most people will venture to answer a question about how a specific piece of equipment "stacked up" for them when they used it. Most of us have enough common sense to not try to guess how much value someone else may find (that they didn't) in something
  
 It's easier to pass along a "Yay" or  a "Nay" on something you mention , the rest (even though you have a budget to consider) is up to you. When you do see something that interests you, be a little "bolder" & see if you can get the person who suggested it to talk about what they like to listen to & or ask how they thought it sounded with something you've both heard !


----------



## knowhatimean

62ohm said:


> sorrodje said:
> 
> 
> > I should plan to launch a user survey about the HD800  in order we can know the real state of what's really used with the Senn and what are different end game set up for those different owners ...
> ...


 
 I'm kind of curious what about the HDVA 600 wasn't up to your expectations & if you don't mind my asking what type of music you normally spend the majority of your time listening to
  
 Thanks


----------



## pearljam50000

I currently have the Geek Out 720 but i could sell it, so budget is about 300$ , yes i know its a taboo to use this low end with HD800 but this is all i can afford at the moment.
If it gives me 85%-90% of what a 3K setup would give me, then im happy ^-^


----------



## Sorrodje

pearljam50000 said:


> I currently have the Geek Out 720 but i could sell it, so budget is about 300$ , yes i know its a taboo to use this low end with HD800 but this is all i can afford at the moment.
> If it gives me 85%-90% of what a 3K setup would give me, then im happy ^-^


 
  
 Keep the GO as dac and mobile use and add a desktop amp. 300$ should allow you to grab some very good amps on the used market.


----------



## 62ohm

knowhatimean said:


> I'm kind of curious what about the HDVA 600 wasn't up to your expectations & if you don't mind my asking what type of music you normally spend the majority of your time listening to
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 The vast majority of my music collection is classic rock, with some pop/rock, acoustical, folk, classical and neo-classical / modern-age classical. To be precise, it's not that the HDVA 600 fail to meet my expectations, in fact I'm very happy with it. But, as it is not a particularly transparent amp (in fact, it is quite heavily colored) DACs make very little to no effect with this amp.
  
 Now, you can see it as a good thing as you can simply use a very cheap DAC and get away with it with the HDVA 600. But I can't help but feel that I am missing something as essentially the amp takes away what a good DAC can do.
  
 To put this into perspective, I found only minuscule difference between the Benchmark DAC1 and the Metrum Octave Mk.1 with the HDVA 600. If I have to put a number to it, I think there's only 1-2% difference between those 2 DACs with the HDVA 600, certainly easy to fail a blind test.
  
 The question to which I am very curious about right now is whether would it still make sense to get a BHA-1 now even with the availability of the Ragnarok. As for me, to get the Ragnarok would cost almost twice the price of a BHA-1.


----------



## Priidik

62ohm said:


> Now, you can see it as a good thing as you can simply use a very cheap DAC and get away with it with the HDVA 600. But I can't help but feel that I am missing something as essentially the amp takes away what a good DAC can do.
> 
> To put this into perspective, I found only minuscule difference between the Benchmark DAC1 and the Metrum Octave Mk.1 with the HDVA 600. If I have to put a number to it, I think there's only 1-2% difference between those 2 DACs with the HDVA 600, certainly easy to fail a blind test.


 
 I am not totally on board with this. Among 4-5 dacs (30..1600$ worth) i fed to the HDVA600 i easily heard differences between them, and two of them were quite similar to each other Sabre-s. None of these are considered to be top flight dacs either.
    I had Apex Pinnacle side by side for comparison to HDVA and while the Pinnacle with right input tube was miles ahead i heard the same flaws or strenghts of different dacs with both, effects are just not as stark with the HDVA.
    But i too feel it is adding some coloration to the sound, something of velvety feel to the sound, a tad soft and a tad wet, but not like tube wet. The wetness of HDVA masks some features in sound.
  
 If every piece of gear sounds different to each other then best case is that only one of them is transparent.


----------



## Priidik

pearljam50000 said:


> I currently have the Geek Out 720 but i could sell it, so budget is about 300$ , yes i know its a taboo to use this low end with HD800 but this is all i can afford at the moment.
> If it gives me 85%-90% of what a 3K setup would give me, then im happy ^-^


 
 Also 3k can get you 85% of what 300$ can.


----------



## lukeap69

62ohm said:


> Well I 'thought' the HDVA 600 would be my end game amp, but at the moment I am trying to work out if I can get the Ragnarok, which would cost roughly $2700 USD to get here in NZ...




Wow, that's twice as much I paid for mine (about couple of months used.)


----------



## akhyar

pearljam50000 said:


> I currently have the Geek Out 720 but i could sell it, so budget is about 300$ , yes i know its a taboo to use this low end with HD800 but this is all i can afford at the moment.
> If it gives me 85%-90% of what a 3K setup would give me, then im happy ^-^




As someone already suggested, keep the GO720 as your Dac and the $300 might get you something like the M-Stage or maybe even a BH Crack in the used market.


----------



## James-uk

knowhatimean said:


> Just out of curiosity , what are you currently using (If you don't mind revealing) for music listening ?
> 
> There might be a possibility that you can use some of what you're already using . Don't be "too" concerned about how "Hi End"
> something you'll be using with the HD800 is at this point ! Just try to find equipment that works well for whatever you prefer listening to
> ...




I agree with this, I currently use my HD800 with a benchmark dac1 . I also use my hd600 with the dac1 and ie800 with iPhone 6. I also use both hd800/600 with O2/odac downstairs and I previously owned hdvd800. All of the combinations sound superb and I could live with any of them . hd600 with O2 costs about £400 , hd800 with hdvd800 is about £2000. It isn't 5 times better . Infact to some it would sound worse! I personally prefered my hd800 on O2 Over hdvd800 which is why I sold it. I use dac1 only because it has 2 headphone out and optical input for gaming plus it was on offer because dac2 was released .


----------



## knowhatimean

pearljam50000 said:


> I currently have the Geek Out 720 but i could sell it, so budget is about 300$ , yes i know its a taboo to use this low end with HD800 but this is all i can afford at the moment.
> If it gives me 85%-90% of what a 3K setup would give me, then im happy ^-^


 
 Okay, there seems to be a consensus that the GO 720 is a "solid choice" to work as your starter component with the HD800, particularly for the fact you think so highly of it !
  
 Hold on to the GO 720 & use it with the HD800 for a while & see how patient you can be living with the results this brings you !
 With the thought in mind that you will be moving on to something with a higher potential to perform at a higher level, when you are able to do so.
  
 When you've had some time to save up your funds (remember to buy food from the "Dollar" menu at Mickey D's) now if you've
 been patient for a bit your choices for getting a better headphone amp (that you will still use with the GO 720) will increase more
 than just having a $300 budget for it.
  
 You will repeat this strategy when you're ready to move up to a better DAC. At this point you can try to sell the GO 720 & add that money to the "DAC budget" !
  
 If you look at it as an ongoing process , you can "gradually" step up to your "Hi-End" system. Patience is your best friend here.!
  
 (Just remember to keep ordering from the "Dollar" menu & save the meal deal coupons, but don't eat so much of this cheap food & get so fat that your HD800 won't fit on your head)


----------



## TonyNewman

james-uk said:


> I agree with this, I currently use my HD800 with a benchmark dac1 . I also use my hd600 with the dac1 and ie800 with iPhone 6. I also use both hd800/600 with O2/odac downstairs and I previously owned hdvd800. All of the combinations sound superb and I could live with any of them . hd600 with O2 costs about £400 , hd800 with hdvd800 is about £2000. It isn't 4 times better . Infact to some it would sound worse! I personally prefered my hd800 on O2 Over hdvd800 which is why I sold it. I use dac1 only because it has 2 headphone out and optical input for gaming plus it was on offer because dac2 was released .


 
 HD600 is a classy headphone, capable of great things.
  
 Just my opinion based on my own limited experience, but for me the HD800 only truly shines when paired to powerful + high end amps. With lesser amps the HD600 tends to sound better to my ears.


----------



## James-uk

tonynewman said:


> HD600 is a classy headphone, capable of great things.
> 
> Just my opinion based on my own limited experience, but for me the HD800 only truly shines when paired to powerful + high end amps. With lesser amps the HD600 tends to sound better to my ears.




Hd600 sounds great on any amp that can power them sufficiently without distortion . Same goes for hd800. Hd800 isn't some special case . It's just a transducer that responds to an electrical current like any other . My point was that the hd800 will sound like the hd800 from any amp that can deliver the goods regardless of make or cost. Yes some amps will change the sound to make the hd800 sound different but that's because they are probably flawed Amps ie tube or high output inpedance . I personally want to hear the Hd800 fed from a clean transparent amp/dac to hear full HiFi audio. Sometimes that truth sucks so I reach for my hd600s!


----------



## skeptic

james-uk said:


> Hd600 sounds great on any amp that can power them sufficiently without distortion . Same goes for hd800. Hd800 isn't some special case . It's just a transducer that responds to an electrical current like any other . My point was that the hd800 will sound like the hd800 from any amp that can deliver the goods regardless of make or cost. Yes some amps will change the sound to make the hd800 sound different but that's because they are probably flawed Amps ie tube or high output inpedance . I personally want to hear the Hd800 fed from a clean transparent amp/dac to hear full HiFi audio. Sometimes that truth sucks so I reach for my hd600s!


 
  
 James, a couple of points to bear in mind, since I think this is oversimplifying the issues involved in amping hd800's:
  
 (1) Sennheiser created its own flagship ss amps, intended for the hd800, with a 40 (42 maybe?) ohm balanced output - so there is a fair argument that they have concluded 0-1 ohm output impedance is not actually ideal for driving hd800's based on the resulting FR (see Purrin's graphs showing how the FR curve varies with output impedance), irrespective of what the Benchmark white paper and Elias Gwynn have argued; 
  
 (2) When you talk about "clean transparent" amps, I assume you are talking about amps like the o2 that use high levels of negative feedback to hit _particular _target specs.  The fact is, the published specs for these amps don't include the transient intermodulation distortion and other nonlinear distortion products that result from the application of negative feedback.  This, in my opinion, is why many folks seem to find that nonfeedback amps may actually sound more clean and transparent than the alternatives.   
  
 As Nelson Pass explains it, with many measurements to confirm, negative feedback decreases total THD but at the cost of adding new complex distortion components/nonlinear distortions, particularly high order.   https://passlabs.com/articles/audio-distortion-and-feedback


----------



## eargasmo22

Just got a new HD800 and I'm freaking lovin it! Btw, just want to know if it is ok to use the pink noise to burn in the hd800? Thanks!


----------



## James-uk

skeptic said:


> James, a couple of points to bear in mind, since I think this is oversimplifying the issues involved in amping hd800's:
> 
> (1) Sennheiser created its own flagship ss amps, intended for the hd800, with a 40 (42 maybe?) ohm balanced output - so there is a fair argument that they have concluded 0-1 ohm output impedance is not actually ideal for driving hd800's based on the resulting FR (see Purrin's graphs showing how the FR curve varies with output impedance), irrespective of what the Benchmark white paper and Elias Gwynn have argued;
> 
> ...




I owned that amp (HDVD800) and Nelson Pass has motives .


----------



## knowhatimean

Just something to keep in mind ; Everyone has a slightly different definition of what constitutes "Transparent" sounding !
  
 I know that on several occasions I've found myself scratching my head wondering if the reason they're calling one amp more transparent than another is because they happen to believe that the "popular colorations" that any number or amps produce are valid
 musical musical information than an amp that may actually be giving you more "dynamic" information & simply reproducing the
 more truthful representation of musical transients.
  
 For certain genres of music listening to the "transient emphasizing" amp are a bit more exciting, but the tables turn when you talk about reproduction of dynamically dense music as the transient "overhang" seriously impedes your ability to "hear" some of the inner micro-detail of the notes as they trail off. This leads to a "sonic" continuousness that doesn't respect the compositional writing enough to allow you the insight to the various adornments that make the passage unique.
  
 That so called "transparency" is now preventing you from hearing some of the music that is not part of the "Main Theme" but is still
 an important part at the correct "dynamic balance" (yes, you can still hear everything, but the balances of what you "could" be hearing
 has been altered)
  
 The bottom line however is that if an amp has a sound emphasis it's really not more transparent . Amplifiers are simply there to amplify
 the signal that a DAC or player has created


----------



## eargasmo22

1. Which do you think is better for the HD800, Cypher labs duet or ALO Rx Mk3 B+?

2. Is it ok to use pink noise to burn in the HD800?

TIA! Any comments or advise will be much appreciated!


----------



## James-uk

knowhatimean said:


> Just something to keep in mind ; Everyone has a slightly different definition of what constitutes "Transparent" sounding !
> 
> I know that on several occasions I've found myself scratching my head wondering if the reason they're calling one amp more transparent than another is because they happen to believe that the "popular colorations" that any number or amps produce are valid
> musical musical information than an amp that may actually be giving you more "dynamic" information & simply reproducing the
> ...




I've had the HD800 for about 3 years now. It sounds like the HD800 on all the Amps and dacs I've tried it on. The biggest change in SQ I've had from the HD800 has been a result of either alcohol / mood/ health or occasionally how baked I am. ( the later really adds sound stage and depth that is beyond any headphone technology available ) to be fair when I got my hdvd800 it sounded amazing ! Then the honeymoon ended and I realised it was just another amp and the HD800 was responsible for the phenomenal sound I was hearing .


----------



## skeptic

james-uk said:


> I owned that amp (HDVD800) and Nelson Pass has motives .


 
  
 So you personally prefer how the hd800's sound with a 0 ohm output?  That's fair enough, but I think its worth noting that is not consistent with Sennheiser's own design choices in how to amp them.  
  
 As to Pass, I'm not aware of any motives.  Pass uses feedback in some of his designs and not in others.  In the article I linked, he is just discussing the technical pros and cons of topogies he uses as well as those employed by others.  (E.g. He also addresses the downsides of cascaded stages, which is what he did with jfets in the F3 if memory serves?)  I imagine you are aware that Pass gives away all his first watt designs to the diy community, notwithstanding that the same amps, built by Pass and team, continue to sell for $1.5 - 3k a pop through RenoHifi.  So what are the motives you are talking about that supposedly discredit his article?  Starting with the intro, it sounds to me like Pass is trying to move past the faction issues and get into the science....
  


> At one extreme, the position is that “feedback makes amplifiers perfect”. At the other extreme, “feedback is a menacing succubus that sucks the life out of the music, leaving a dried husk, devoid of soul”.
> 
> The former viewpoint usually belongs to so-called “objectivists” who have a fine appreciation for electronic theory and measurements. Their opposites would be the “subjectivists” who emphasize the listening experience and often own tube amplifiers. Accusations are occasionally made that objectivists can't hear, and conversely that subjectivists hear things that aren't there. This being the entertainment industry, I hope everyone is having a good time.
> 
> ...


----------



## shempster

Got a brand new HD800 today.  Only 2 hrs. listening time so far, sounds good with all genres - no treble issues to my ears & while their obviously not bass monsters, if there's base
 in the song, they give it to you.  As everyone says, they do expose bad recordings.
  
 New tubes in my Lyr also today & with both burned in, I think I'll have a sizable step up from my stock tubes & HE500 - hopefully enough to hold me until I can afford
 to upgrade my schiit stack down the road.


----------



## RRod

skeptic said:


> So you personally prefer how the hd800's sound with a 0 ohm output?  That's fair enough, but I think its worth noting that is not consistent with Sennheiser's own design choices in how to amp them.


 
  
 40ohm output impedance isn't ridiculously high for 300ohm cans; how much change in frequency response are we talking about?


----------



## eargasmo22

shempster said:


> Got a brand new HD800 today.  Only 2 hrs. listening time so far, sounds good with all genres - no treble issues to my ears & while their obviously not bass monsters, if there's base
> in the song, they give it to you.  As everyone says, they do expose bad recordings.
> 
> New tubes in my Lyr also today & with both burned in, I think I'll have a sizable step up from my stock tubes & HE500 - hopefully enough to hold me until I can afford
> to upgrade my schiit stack down the road.




Is it ok to use pink noise to burn in the HD800?


----------



## bearFNF

eargasmo22 said:


> Is it ok to use pink noise to burn in the HD800?


 

 I would just listen to them and not worry too much about burn in.
 But read this if you like to know more about pink noise: http://www.head-fi.org/t/215556/pink-noise-works-wonders-for-burning-in#post_2599589


----------



## skeptic

rrod said:


> 40ohm output impedance isn't ridiculously high for 300ohm cans; how much change in frequency response are we talking about?


 
  
 As I understand it, the FR change is due to the mid-bass peak in the hd800's impedance curve.  Purrin's graphs (based on 0 ohm, 170 ohm and 680 ohm outputs - tghe last simulating a sansui), suggests that a 40 ohm difference should only shift mid-bass and deep bass up by around a db or so (say at 50hrz), and then there is also the impact on damping (bass tightness) to consider.  For the comparative graphs, google up: hd800 and 120 ohm IEC standard.  
  
 I personally prefer my mainline's nominal 16 ohm (actual ~8 ohm) setting to its 32 ohm taps.  The latter has a little more bass, but the change in tightness is also audible.  But I have yet to hear a 0 or 1 ohm amp that I really like with hd800's.  All boils down to personal preferences and priorities.


----------



## Zoom25

Just plug in the headphones and let them play. It's important to wear them, the pads and headband are initially stiff. The sooner you get through that phase, the better. Otherwise, no need to worry about pink noise and other nonsense.


----------



## James-uk

skeptic said:


> As I understand it, the FR change is due to the mid-bass peak in the hd800's impedance curve.  Purrin's graphs (based on 0 ohm, 170 ohm and 680 ohm outputs - tghe last simulating a sansui), suggests that a 40 ohm difference should only shift mid-bass and deep bass up by around a db or so (say at 50hrz), and then there is also the impact on damping (bass tightness) to consider.  For the comparative graphs, google up: hd800 and 120 ohm IEC standard.
> 
> I personally prefer my mainline's nominal 16 ohm (actual ~8 ohm) setting to its 32 ohm taps.  The latter has a little more bass, but the change in tightness is also audible.  But I have yet to hear a 0 or 1 ohm amp that I really like with hd800's.  All boils down to personal preferences and priorities.



Exactly . Personal preference and priority. My personal preference is accurate extended tight bass which is why I like 0 ohm amps. I can understand why many would prefer a boost in mid bass though . For that I use HD600.


----------



## Mach3

pearljam50000 said:


> What would you say is the point of diminishing returns when it comes to DACs and amps with HD800?
> As someone here said, I'm on a McDonald's budget(thanks for the insult) and I can't really afford anything high end.
> Th


 
  
 Sorry mate was just giving an example. Perhaps a re-wording, it like you bought a Ferrari you wouldn't run it on anything but the best fuel or it won't perform at it best.
  


skeptic said:


> Fraid not, in my opinion.  O2 is just not a great match with hd800 or hd650's for that matter.  I'm not an O2 hater either.  Built my own and later built and added agdr's cool booster board, which reduces offset and distortion, increases transient current, and, along with a dual lme49990 in the gain stage, gives you 10x the slew rate among other benefits, making it sort of a transportable "wire."  Sounds very good and clean with most low ohm phones, sensitive planars, and even dt880's, but it makes Senn's sound thin and a little lifeless  (to my ears, ymmv, yada yada).  Frankly, the unremarkable headphone out on my marantz htr is far more enjoyable to me with hd800's.
> 
> If a good tube amp is out of your reach for now, I'd take a look at purrin's list of recommended hd800 amps over on chang*.  (Google "best hd800 amps" and see second nonsponsored link).  He has quite a list and nice concise descriptions of what you might expect at various price points.  Vali and mstage are two cheap options that get lots of positive reviews, but I haven't heard either personally.  For a little more, and if you're willing to do some soldering yourself or buy used, the beezar torpedo would be what I would buy in your shoes.  It is a baby parafeed tube amp (like the mainline and L-2), designed by Doug at ECP  who really knows his stuff.  My 2c fwiw.


 
  
 My experience matches with your assertion of the O2. I was part of the diyaudio Aussie Group Buy when the O2 was pretty much just release. I built two O2, one stock direct parts from the BOM (bill of material). The other I built using boutique caps and resisters. Result from measurement by some of the member of the group buy show a slight improvement of the noise floor. Everything was rosie until I acquired a 4 Channel Balance Beta22 as there was a thread in the head fi forum and nwavguy blog outlining the O2 had slightly better measurement than the Beta22. Debate was raised, is the O2 better than Beta22?
  
 I was keen on the Beta22 as I've read many reviews stating the widest sound stage of the SS amps. Something I've learnt to love about how speaker like the HD800 sounded. So I wanted to pair it with the best amp that bring out it's strength. This proved to be true when comparing with the O2 and even the highly recommended phonitor which I also own.
  
 I even purchased a second pair HD800 to do a fair comparision between the various amps I own. This made me realised measurements doesn't tell you the whole picture of how a amp performs until you actually listen to the amp. Things like sound stage width, low and high extension and imaging aren't aren't shown in the measurements.


----------



## knowhatimean

james-uk said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > Just something to keep in mind ; Everyone has a slightly different definition of what constitutes "Transparent" sounding !
> ...


 
 Well, I have to say that your impressions are certainly among the most unique that I've seen about these headphones !
  
 If all it takes is some type of "serious mood modificaton" to appreciate how the HD800 are the greatest thing since "sliced bread"
 everyone could sell all the nice components they're using with their 800s & stock up on "mood modification" items with those funds!
  
 That sounds like a plan that those using those more "transparent" amps should try. I'm pretty happy with the equipment I'm specifically using with my HD800 (which I "fixed" from the silly voicing that Sennheiser gave them) so I'll pass on your techniques 
  
 You certainly made some interesting comments though (& as I said "unique")


----------



## RRod

skeptic said:


> As I understand it, the FR change is due to the mid-bass peak in the hd800's impedance curve.  Purrin's graphs (based on 0 ohm, 170 ohm and 680 ohm outputs - tghe last simulating a sansui), suggests that a 40 ohm difference should only shift mid-bass and deep bass up by around a db or so (say at 50hrz), and then there is also the impact on damping (bass tightness) to consider.  For the comparative graphs, google up: hd800 and 120 ohm IEC standard.
> 
> I personally prefer my mainline's nominal 16 ohm (actual ~8 ohm) setting to its 32 ohm taps.  The latter has a little more bass, but the change in tightness is also audible.  But I have yet to hear a 0 or 1 ohm amp that I really like with hd800's.  All boils down to personal preferences and priorities.


 
  
 Thanks for the proper Google-fu. And yes, as the output impedance goes up the frequency shift should match the headphone's impedance curve; I just wondered the actual effect in dB. For just 1dB of oomph in the mid-bass I would think EQ could be used with negligible effects. Personally if I wanted such a boost, I'd keep my Magni (which is certainly powerful enough for the HD800) and put a dab of EQ rather than shell out $1200-1500 for an amp for a similar effect. But EQ is of course its own hairy subject around here.


----------



## jhai

lukeap69 said:


> Wow, that's twice as much I paid for mine (about couple of months used.)


 

 AU$2949.00 purchased in Australia hurts more I believe.
 (Edit: Was in reference to "$2700 US dollars in New Zealand").


----------



## thecrow

eargasmo22 said:


> Is it ok to use pink noise to burn in the HD800?




I bought my hd800s a few months ago and I was surprised how good they sounded out of the box. 

Who knows maybe they were a used pair that had been used for 2 months before they were returned and then I bought them. It did cross my mind but I doubt it - they did sound good. 

I can't wait to see if they evolve further as some say here over my first 100 hours.


----------



## thecrow

rrod said:


> Thanks for the proper Google-fu. And yes, as the output impedance goes up the frequency shift should match the headphone's impedance curve; I just wondered the actual effect in dB. For just 1dB of oomph in the mid-bass I would think EQ could be used with negligible effects. Personally if I wanted such a boost, I'd keep my Magni (which is certainly powerful enough for the HD800) and put a dab of EQ rather than shell out $1200-1500 for an amp for a similar effect. But EQ is of course its own hairy subject around here.




I was in fact listening to mine last night with simply an odac and O2 I recently picked up. Nothing wrong with a little eq at all. 

Not going to say it would sound as silky or shiny or polished etc as a premium amp but certainly a fair little temporary, budget minded set up.


----------



## White Lotus

I use an EQ over my HD800, 100% of the time I use them. 
  
 No shame in that!


----------



## johnjen

james-uk said:


> Exactly . Personal preference and priority. My personal preference is accurate extended tight bass which is why I like 0 ohm amps. I can understand why many would prefer a boost in mid bass though . For that I use HD600.


 
 +1
  
 The Rok (0.03Ω) matches up with 800's really well. 
  
 JJ


----------



## Arnotts

I made a comparison of how the HD800's sound on both of my rigs over in the Gustard H10 thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/735828/gustard-h10-high-current-discrete-class-a-output-stage-headphone-amplifier/915#post_11428019
  
 M-Stage combo does really well for the price, but the Gustard combo is definitely an improvement for the HD800's .


----------



## agooh

why I'm still enjoying my T1 and Lcd 3f more than  Hd 800 ?
 any mod or amp to increase bass, also the soundstage for me not real .


----------



## Sorrodje

agooh said:


> why I'm still enjoying my T1 and Lcd 3f more than  Hd 800 ?
> any mod or amp to increase bass, also the soundstage for me not real .


 
  
 Depends or your tastes and what you usually listen to.  I haven't met any perfect headphone yet. Enjoy your Beyer and your Audeze and sell the HD800. I find they are great headphones despite the fact I don't like them as you do.
  
 A few weeks ago, I was after a complementary headphone for my HD800. Something more relax , darker and smoother. So I bought a Koss ESP 950 and a Stax amp. The Stax amp was sold with the SR-404 and I honestly thought I would sell the SR-404 to fund the Koss. Right now, I still have the SR404 and I sold the Koss. too smooth and warm for my tastes. I'm ****.d ! Looking for a warmer and darker headphone is a bad idea .
  
 I'll ever sell the 404 to purchase a Lambda Signature . this ol' lambda offer even more ethereal clarity and a better wider soundstage.  Polar opposite of your beloved LCD3F .
  
 Everything come down to personal preferences.


----------



## punit

agooh said:


> why I'm still enjoying my T1 and Lcd 3f more than  Hd 800 ?
> any mod or amp to increase bass, also the soundstage for me not real .


 

 what amp are you using ?
  
 edit : saw the Schiit Rag in your profile. That's very good with HD 800. So its not the amp. Guess you just don't like the HD 800 sound. That's personal preference. I personally don't care much for the LCD 3 sound.


----------



## agooh

My ears are very sensitive , I can hear many things in one time, Very disappointed with Hd 800 something wrong with these, maybe the cups are too big and for that you get huge soundstage but no bass. also there is 5 holes under the drivers, what's that for ???
 I'vs been using them for about 2 weeks with Rag and still no smoothness , spiky at the treble, very bright and soulless . it's not for music ,
 but I'm happy cause they are perfect for gaming with my brother .


----------



## Sorrodje

heuu , you're dac is *really *the Hugo ?


----------



## agooh

yes H u g o .


----------



## Sorrodje

Ok , so your impressions match indeed with mine.  too much width wih "hole in the middle effect" , overall thin sound and harsh treble.  I gave impressions a few pages above and wrote a complete review of the Hugo in french.  Friend's impressions (LCD3F and EC 445 as amp) was the same.
  
 we heard the awful treble even with SR007mkII /SRM727 combo.  Jeez. I can't imagine the result with a resolving & unforgiving amp like the rag .. brrrr


----------



## shempster

eargasmo22 said:


> Is it ok to use pink noise to burn in the HD800?


 
 Yea its OK, but like someone else said, just play music & listen to them. Mine certainly don't sound bad brand new!  Personally, I do think burn in helps, but its not night & day.


----------



## knowhatimean

agooh said:


> My ears are very sensitive , I can hear many things in one time, Very disappointed with Hd 800 something wrong with these, maybe the cups are too big and for that you get huge soundstage but no bass. also there is 5 holes under the drivers, what's that for ???
> I'vs been using them for about 2 weeks with Rag and still no smoothness , spiky at the treble, very bright and soulless . it's not for music ,
> but I'm happy cause they are perfect for gaming with my brother .


 
 It is not a coincidence that many people hear these same sound characteristics in the HD800, Sennheiser (in addition to all the great
 capabilities the driver they've picked for these headphones) "chose" to "voice" these headphones to have a "bright signature" along
 with that huge "Soundstage" so that those who aren't using comparably priced equipment with them could appreciate what the 800s
 could achieve without actually having the necessary system playback resolution to get this results. There are many more people
 who use the HD800 with "mid level" to lower level equipment then those of us that will use them with "Hi - End" equipment.
  
 That was the "Bad" news, but it really isn't that bad,because there are options to correct the HD800 (& Sennheiser knew that,but as I said really wanted every "Tom, Dick & Harry" not into better Audio to want a pair of these; way more profitability)
  
 Your HD800s aren't as "Broken" of "Flawed" they just have some "Mechanical Colorations" to them that are "easily" corrected* &
 once corrected worth every cent (& more) that you paid for them  * ( Or you could "dumb down" the flaws by using a tubed amp; which
 works for some people but you're just changing the colorations)
  
 Before I forget on this posting (& counterpoint opinion discussion that the "HD800 are perfect as is; which really isn't necessary as
 these are "my" opinions only) I'll say....
  
 YMMV
 ~ steve


----------



## pearljam50000

agooh said:


> My ears are very sensitive , I can hear many things in one time, Very disappointed with Hd 800 something wrong with these, maybe the cups are too big and for that you get huge soundstage but no bass. also there is 5 holes under the drivers, what's that for ???
> I'vs been using them for about 2 weeks with Rag and still no smoothness , spiky at the treble, very bright and soulless . it's not for music ,
> but I'm happy cause they are perfect for gaming with my brother .


 
 From all the headphones i have heard the HD800 comes closest to the sound of studio monitors, ultra detailed and neutral, this type of sound is not for everyone i guess.
 I hated the GS1000 for example, yes it's more musical than HD800 but everything else was much worst.


----------



## wink

Quoteearljam5000 





> I hated the GS1000 for example, yes it's more musical than HD800 but everything else was much worst.


 
 My GS1000 sounded OK on low volumes, but sounded like cardboaard at medium levels.
  
 I no longer have them.


----------



## Sorrodje

wink said:


> My GS1000 sounded OK on low volumes, but sounded like cardboaard at medium levels.
> 
> I no longer have them.


 
  
 Just saw your profile and your headphone collection Wink.
  
 Would you mind sharing some impressions of the HE-60 against the HD800 and something like a Stax Lambda Signature if you have some time ?


----------



## Priidik

skeptic said:


> James, a couple of points to bear in mind, since I think this is oversimplifying the issues involved in amping hd800's:
> 
> (1) Sennheiser created its own flagship ss amps, intended for the hd800, with a 40 (42 maybe?) ohm balanced output - so there is a fair argument that they have concluded 0-1 ohm output impedance is not ideal..



It could just be that the chip used in the HDVD is unstable without some added resistance. To my ears 0 output z sounds fine as long as the bass is meaty, as it is through many amps with low z. Ime the whole output z thing gets too much attention lately.


----------



## Taowolf51

Alright, it might finally be time for an upgrade. RIght now I have the ODAC > M-Stage > HD800 with a little bit of Equalizer APO action to dial it in perfectly. This current setup is probably the one I've been most satisfied with in my years in this hobby.
  
 However, I have some scratch I'm willing to spend and have been thinking about jumping to either a new DAC or a tube amp (I've always owned low impedance headphones and have wanted to get into tubes for a long time). At the moment I'm looking at either a Bifrost (non-Uber) or a Valhalla 2 as an upgrade and was wondering if anyone else had any thoughts. I'm also open to other options. I really like the look of big tubes, but the Valhalla 2 has been getting such high praise with the HD800 and sound always comes before looks. Also, the high output impedance of something like the crack scares me away from using it as a primary amp. I'm very fond of how fast and tight the HD800's are, with its almost exaggerated rising transient, quick decay, and great separation. An amp that would enhance the soundstage and imaging is definitely a bonus, as I don't think my current setup is really taking advantage of the HD800 in that respect. The M-Stage itself is a pretty warm and smooth amp, so I'd rather not get anything that would make things more "edgy", as my current setup performs well with just about any genre and doesn't put a magnifying glass on the poor aspects of the recording, only the good parts.


----------



## paulchiu

Finally listened to the HD800 with my new Hugo after going through TH900, Grado PS & GS, SE846, UE10, LCD3 and M2.
  
 The setup:
 MacPro - Jena Labs/AQ Diamond - Hugo - HD800 + cardas clear cables
 Apple m4a tracks recorded myself or commercial.
  
 I think the HD800 had the best air, clearly placed instruments where they should be.  The most speaker like among the cans I have listened to so far. (non electrostatic)
  
 Now, about the HD800 earpads.  I have them replaced last year but after experience with recent makers' leather pads.  Anyone here have tried leather pads replacements?
 Thanks.


----------



## icebear

> Originally Posted by *paulchiu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> .
> .
> .
> ...


 
  
 Are any leather replacement pads for the HD 800 available ??
 I recently replaced the pads on mine with original Senn. pads and already this was a pain in lower back area, to get the new ones snapp into place.


----------



## paulchiu

icebear said:


> Are any leather replacement pads for the HD 800 available ??
> I recently replaced the pads on mine with original Senn. pads and already this was a pain in lower back area, to get the new ones snapp into place.


 
  
 I am on my third set of micro fiber Sennheiser pads and headband.  These have cost me over $350+ already.  They simply do not last.  My first set completely pill off.  There are pictures in the forum somewhere.
 Anyway, the sound of too good not to replace or search for better pads.


----------



## BleaK

paulchiu said:


> I am on my third set of micro fiber Sennheiser pads and headband.  These have cost me over $350+ already.  They simply do not last.  My first set completely pill off.  There are pictures in the forum somewhere.
> Anyway, the sound of too good not to replace or search for better pads.


 

 Never had this problem, what are you doing with your headphone?


----------



## paulchiu

bleak said:


> Never had this problem, what are you doing with your headphone?


 
 I use them.


----------



## Sorrodje

My first set last 2 years. Just replaced it


----------



## kapanak

paulchiu said:


> I use them.




Your cheeky answer notwithstanding, you are either using them like a pair of 50 dollars gaming headset, or you excrete a particularly acidic sweat, or you live in a very humid and hot environment. Or all three. That's the only way I can see the pads deteriorating fast enough to need three replacements even if you owned them since release.


----------



## paulchiu

kapanak said:


> Your cheeky answer notwithstanding, you are either using them like a pair of 50 dollars gaming headset, or you excrete a particularly acidic sweat, or you live in a very humid and hot environment. Or all three. That's the only way I can see the pads deteriorating fast enough to need three replacements even if you owned them since release.


 
  
 Serial 666, so probably made within the first 6 months. What killed the pads is the constant wiping off of excess moisture.  Yes, I do travel to Southeast Asia often.  But that's not it because the cans are at the hotel, nice and cool.  Could be body chemistry.


----------



## Argo Duck

I have no idea - not my area of expertise - but if it is body chemistry, something in your diet 

How we suffer for this hobby


----------



## paulchiu

argo duck said:


> I have no idea - not my area of expertise - but if it is body chemistry, something in your diet
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Too much travel food here.  Skin is def not pH-balanced.


----------



## kapanak

paulchiu said:


> Serial 666, so probably made within the first 6 months. What killed the pads is the constant wiping off of excess moisture.  Yes, I do travel to Southeast Asia often.  But that's not it because the cans are at the hotel, nice and cool.  Could be body chemistry.


 
 Alright that makes sense. I suffer from some of the same issues. Live in a very humid area, albeit cold. Have some body sweat issues, and I have to wipe off sweat often too. And since yours is a first run production, three pad changes make sense. I know I would spend the same money to change the pads since the sound is just too good lol


----------



## paulchiu

sidetracked by pads.  This is the color scheme that works wonderfully well with Hugo.
 magenta sound levels with Cardas cables.


----------



## knowhatimean

kapanak said:


> paulchiu said:
> 
> 
> > Serial 666, so probably made within the first 6 months. What killed the pads is the constant wiping off of excess moisture.  Yes, I do travel to Southeast Asia often.  But that's not it because the cans are at the hotel, nice and cool.  Could be body chemistry.
> ...


 
 At some point a while ago I decided to mix up a weak solution (a lit bit of Armour All & water) & got a soft cotton rag , dipped it in the
 solution & squeezed the rag out so that it was only damp,
  
 I then wiped the earpads lightly with this rag. My thinking was that a slight coating of silicone on the earpads fibers even though the
 pads were dry to the touch after a minute or so should help the pad fibers from the wear caused from perspiration
  
 It seems to have worked pretty well as I did this about a year & a half ago . (Now that I think of it , I may do it again this weekend as I still have that small pump spray bottle of "Armour All" sitting on a shelf)
  
 Just dilute it with water & lightly wipe it across the pads (It fights the "acidic" wear nature that perspiration cause pretty well I'd say !)


----------



## paulchiu

knowhatimean said:


> At some point a while ago I decided to mix up a weak solution (a lit bit of Armour All & water) & got a soft cotton rag , dipped it in the
> solution & squeezed the rag out so that it was only damp,
> 
> I then wiped the earpads lightly with this rag. My thinking was that a slight coating of silicone on the earpads fibers even though the
> ...


 
  
 You have been good with this?  No rash or other ill effects?


----------



## kapanak

I would not do this if I were any of you. Car microsuede or leather protectors work very badly on the human skin, even highly diluted.


----------



## knowhatimean

kapanak said:


> I would not do this if I were any of you. Car microsuede or leather protectors work very badly on the human skin, even highly diluted.


 
 Yeah , you guys are right my ears fell off & I've had to get a "hearing ear" dog !
  
 (Contrary to "public opinion" I always consider worse case "scenarios" when ever I decide to try unknown things, but I am VERY cautious with every thing that I attempt so in retrospect it may not have been a wise decision to suggest things like this to others
 I know how "technically or mechanically" apt I am at doing things & can only assume that others will or won't attempt things based
 on the confidence they have in "their" own aptitude levels in these areas )
  
 (Actually, I try these things out on the dog first.... I can't understand why he keeps running away !) (I can't understand why he doesn't come when I call him !)


----------



## zilch0md

skeptic said:


> [snip]
> 
> (2) When you talk about "clean transparent" amps, I assume you are talking about amps like the o2 that use high levels of negative feedback to hit _particular _target specs.  The fact is, the published specs for these amps don't include the transient intermodulation distortion and other nonlinear distortion products that result from the application of negative feedback.  This, in my opinion, is why many folks seem to find that nonfeedback amps may actually sound more clean and transparent than the alternatives.
> 
> As Nelson Pass explains it, with many measurements to confirm, negative feedback decreases total THD but at the cost of adding new complex distortion components/nonlinear distortions, particularly high order.   https://passlabs.com/articles/audio-distortion-and-feedback




+1


----------



## brokenthumb

I've got a new found respect for the HD 800 today.  I have been comparing HD 800 to a T1 I recently bought and it just craps all over that thing.  The T1 really doesn't do anything wrong but it doesn't do anything great either.  The HD 800 is on another level entirely, easily worth it's asking price, the T1 sounds like it should be priced around $300 - $400 dollars to me.  I really was expecting them to be much closer, but no.


----------



## frankrondaniel

brokenthumb said:


> I've got a new found respect for the HD 800 today.  I have been comparing HD 800 to a T1 I recently bought and it just craps all over that thing.  The T1 really doesn't do anything wrong but it doesn't do anything great either.  The HD 800 is on another level entirely, easily worth it's asking price, the T1 sounds like it should be priced around $300 - $400 dollars to me.  I really was expecting them to be much closer, but no.


 
  
 I agree with you - once I had my 800's I rarely touch my T1's anymore.  And when I do it just reminds me of how much more I prefer the 800's.


----------



## knowhatimean

frankrondaniel said:


> brokenthumb said:
> 
> 
> > I've got a new found respect for the HD 800 today.  I have been comparing HD 800 to a T1 I recently bought and it just craps all over that thing.  The T1 really doesn't do anything wrong but it doesn't do anything great either.  The HD 800 is on another level entirely, easily worth it's asking price, the T1 sounds like it should be priced around $300 - $400 dollars to me.  I really was expecting them to be much closer, but no.
> ...


 
 Question; Do the T1's bear any of the characteristic "Dark but fully detailed nature" that the non-Tesla Beyerdynamic headphones
 do ?
  
 At various times through the years I've always felt that both Sennheiser & Beyerdynamics usually retained a good bit of their "house"
 sound (Almost the way Classical recording companies followed their "house" sound recording techniques to come up with the
 same "sound characteristics" their "distinctive" approaches resulted in)


----------



## Kyle 491

The T1 is mediocre by even mid-fi standards, the midrange to lower treble distortion is significantly higher than a HD600 or K701; it gets outresolved by the HD600/650 when it comes to fine background detail & ambiance and cannot reproduce instantaneous clean edges & snappy transient response to the level of the K701. The T1's bass response is barely better than the above given that it cheats with a semi-closed design. Forget about comparing it to the HD800.


----------



## Sorrodje

knowhatimean said:


> Question; Do the T1's bear any of the characteristic "Dark but fully detailed nature" that the non-Tesla Beyerdynamic headphones
> do ?


 
  
 Basically , the T1 sounds like an "uber" DT880. Faster, better , stronger DT880. Same overall balance with extended bass, neutral mids and Peaky treble and a great soundstage. I owned it during three month last summer for reviewing purpose.


----------



## nigeljames

kyle 491 said:


> The T1 is mediocre by even mid-fi standards, the midrange to lower treble distortion is significantly higher than a HD600 or K701;* it gets outresolved by the HD600/650 when it comes to fine background detail & ambiance* and cannot reproduce instantaneous clean edges & snappy transient response to the level of the K701. *The T1's bass response is barely better than the above given that it cheats with a semi-closed design*. Forget about comparing it to the HD800.


 
  
 Hell No!!!
  
 But I do agree the HD800's are better IMO.


----------



## Priidik

kyle 491 said:


> The T1 is mediocre by even mid-fi standards, the midrange to lower treble distortion is significantly higher than a HD600 or K701; it gets *outresolved* by the HD600/650 when it comes to fine background detail & ambiance and cannot reproduce instantaneous clean edges & snappy transient response to the level of the K701. The T1's bass response is barely better than the above given that it cheats with a semi-closed design. Forget about comparing it to the HD800.


 
 I agree on all fronts exept comparing to K701 the T1 is league above.
 Imo in some ways the T1 sounds like much improved K701.


----------



## soundeffect

sorrodje said:


> Basically , the T1 sounds like an "uber" DT880. Faster, better , stronger DT880. Same overall balance with extended bass, neutral mids and Peaky treble and a great soundstage. I owned it during three month last summer for reviewing purpose.



For me I agree with this post here and I'll add that the T1 treble is smoother to me than the Dt880(owned for awhile currently) and sounds more controlled. I owned the T1 and HD800 for awhile, I find them to quite a bit better than the Hd650 (I also currently own for a few months) and the Akg 65th anv. (Previously owned). I take the T1 over both of the other two any day. While the T1 is very good, I do like the HD800 more. With that, I do appreciate the HD650, DT880, and the likes.


----------



## soundeffect

soundeffect said:


> For me I agree with this post here and I'll add that the T1 treble is smoother to me than the Dt880(owned for awhile currently) and sounds more controlled. I owned the T1 and HD800 for awhile now, I find them to quite a bit better than the Hd650 (I also currently own for a few months) and the Akg 65th anv. (Previously owned). I take the T1 over both of the other two any day. While the T1 is very good, I do like the HD800 more. With that, I do appreciate the HD650, DT880, and the likes.


----------



## knowhatimean

Under the correct conditions I'm finding the HD800 to sound more "Transparent" (& I honestly believe that unless you're talking about
 "transducers" you should forget about using this term in other places) than any other headphone that I've heard.
  
 I can definitely hear whether or not the colorations in the other equipment in my playback chain are working with whatever playback source material I'm listening to or against it ! (I may be even "pickier" about what music I'll even listen to than the equipment I'm listening to it through ; But it works for me )
  
 (He,he,he... As recently as yesterday I discovered that 1 of the headphone amps that I've been switching in & out with other amps
 may be more of an "acceptable holdover amp" than I thought it was; So I don't have to get another "holdover amp" just yet !)


----------



## Zoom25

The HD 800 have now stolen music time as well, in addition to gaming, from speakers. The new Audirvana really benefitted the HD 800. Only movies and TV shows on speakers. Damn, I don't like going back to headphones, but these make it very hard to resist. Must obtain a 3-way sealed cabinet speaker to bring the power and monopoly back to the speakers.


----------



## knowhatimean

This is off topic but others may get a "kick" out of it !
  
 Some years back I was watching a show I believe was called "Trading Spaces" where the occupants who lived in one house would change places with others to do renovations on rooms in each others houses. I only caught the tail end of the episode show but it was enough as 1 of the dwellers had some "Hi End" Audio equipment in 1 of the rooms that was redesigned.
  
 Normally when you see people returning to these rooms for the first time you can tell if they like the changes pretty quickly. It appeared his wife was pretty happy , but you could see he looked pretty uptight & almost immediately went into a quick room scan looking for something until he discovered that his full sized Magneplanars had been placed behind "grilled" doors on either side of a built in "Wall Unit".
  
 You could see him relax as he realized they were just sitting behind the doors. I would bet any amount of money that the wife would lose the battle of his "Maggies" staying behind those doors from his 'after the fact' comments ! (It was just hilarious how he looked while he went into search mode, as his wife was grinning from ear to ear) (At least I think it may have been "Trading Spaces")
  
 (I could lie & say that there was a pair of HD800 sitting on a shelf (To add some "relevance" to the story: but I don't think the
 HD800 was even on the drawing board yet)


----------



## agooh

For me the HD800 , they're technically better than T1, but  for enjoyment HD 800 : 5.5/10,  while T1 score 7.5 /10 ( lcd 3 F: 9 /10 ) . I found HD 800 sounds too cold , thin ,detail very clear .  It's relatively bass light compared to T1's and a bit brighter and fatiguing.  T1's sound very clear , warm and detailed without any fatigue .
 another plus for T1 I found them 10/10 for gaming while Hd 800 9/10 .


----------



## TonyNewman

agooh said:


> For me the HD800 , they're technically better than T1, but  for enjoyment HD 800 : 5.5/10,  while T1 score 7.5 /10 ( lcd 3 F: 9 /10 ) . I found HD 800 sounds too cold , thin ,detail very clear .  It's relatively bass light compared to T1's and a bit brighter and fatiguing.  T1's sound very clear , warm and detailed without any fatigue .
> another plus for T1 I found them 10/10 for gaming while Hd 800 9/10 .


 
  
 Each to their own. A _*modded *_HD800, paired with a warmish amp (WA5 or 430HA for me) is a match made in audio heaven to my ears.
  
 Unmodded, I find the HD800 hard to love. Mod the thing, amp it with something that matches well, and it is HEAVENLY. The HD800 scales like crazy (as does the HE6, but that is another topic for another thread).


----------



## wink

TonyNewman speaks the truth.....


----------



## johnjen

tonynewman said:


> Each to their own. A _*modded *_HD800, paired with a warmish amp (WA5 or 430HA for me) is a match made in audio heaven to my ears.
> 
> Unmodded, I find the HD800 hard to love. Mod the thing, amp it with something that matches well, and it is HEAVENLY. The HD800 scales like crazy (as does the HE6, but that is another topic for another thread).


 
 +1 x 1^1
  
 It does (or can) take a bit of doing but once you find the setup that works for you, they can indeed sing…
  
 JJ  :thumb


----------



## Sorrodje

Sorry , but  my HD800 is still unmodded you know what ? I really enjoy it ! .. incredible isn't it. 
  
 Maybe I'm crazy or deaf after all.  The only thing I guarantee is that I listen to real music ! no pink or white noise here ! and I don't use my Unmodded HD800 for medical purpose... I listen to music with it.  I know , it sounds unbelievable but I promise it's the pure truth. 
  
 Maybe it depends on what I listen to ?  That would be incredible if the music we listen to would determinate our tastes in audio... Maybe we should open a thread about the relationship between music and audio. that would be a bit too revolutionnary though. dunno... thoughts ?


----------



## TonyNewman

sorrodje said:


> Sorry , but  my HD800 is still unmodded you know what ? I really enjoy it ! .. incredible isn't it.
> 
> Maybe I'm crazy or deaf after all.  The only thing I guarantee is that I listen to real music ! no pink or white noise here ! and I don't use my Unmodded HD800 for medical purpose... I listen to music with it.  I know , it sounds unbelievable but I promise it's the pure truth.
> 
> Maybe it depends on what I listen to ?  That would be incredible if the music we listen to would determinate our tastes in audio... Maybe we should open a thread about the relationship between music and audio. that would be a bit too revolutionnary though. dunno... thoughts ?


 
  
 If an unmodded HD800 works for you, I say go for it and be happy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 We all hear things differently - what works for me might be poison to someone else. I find the treble of an unmodded HD800 a little feral - the modding tames it into something I can enjoy - but that is my taste for my gear - YMMV.


----------



## punit

I have an un-modded one too. I had a chance to compare the Anax modded & un-modded side to side & I prefer the un-modded.


----------



## deuter

I love them unmoved.


----------



## preproman

punit said:


> I have an un-modded one too. I had a chance to compare the Anax modded & un-modded side to side & I prefer the un-modded.


 
 My to by a good margin..


----------



## preproman

agooh said:


> For me the HD800 , they're technically better than T1, but  for enjoyment HD 800 : 5.5/10,  while T1 score 7.5 /10 ( lcd 3 F: 9 /10 ) . I found HD 800 sounds too cold , thin ,detail very clear .  It's relatively bass light compared to T1's and a bit brighter and fatiguing.  T1's sound very clear , warm and detailed without any fatigue .
> another plus for T1 I found them 10/10 for gaming while Hd 800 9/10 .


 
 Hey agooh,
  
 I'm going to agree with you on the LCD-3F as of right now I'm giving the 3Fs more head time over the HD800s.  However, I don't feel the same way about the T1.  I might try another one later on..


----------



## Arnotts

preproman said:


> Hey agooh,
> 
> I'm going to agree with you on the LCD-3F as of right now I'm giving the 3Fs more head time over the HD800s.  However, I don't feel the same way about the T1.  I might try another one later on..


 

 I feel the same way about the HD800's and the LCD-X's and 2F's (never heard the 3's).
  
 Wonderful, 3D sound from the HD800, but it's definitely more "analytical" and less emotionally engaging than the LCD series.


----------



## knowhatimean

preproman said:


> punit said:
> 
> 
> > I have an un-modded one too. I had a chance to compare the Anax modded & un-modded side to side & I prefer the un-modded.
> ...


 
 Well, here I go stirring things up again, but the Anax mod really isn't the "last word" in modifying the HD800 "anywho" !
  
 It's a start for those interested in trying it, but I think you'll find a lot of "less than well executed" Anax mods out there ! I'm not sure how many times I ended up just "scrapping" my attempts at placing it in my HD800(& I scrapped it each time because I didn't care for how the headphones sounded afterward)
  
 I modded my 800s to specifically address somethings that "I" was "hearing" as being "mechanical resonances" sitting on top of the
 music. You know what ? Less "dynamically dense" music than "I" generally listen to really doesn't even "excite" these resonances
 in these headphones. That would be about 90% of all the available recorded music. Another huge factor is that "I" know that whatever "noise" I can hear is only specific to what I'm hearing through my playback system. So I mod "accordingly"
  
 I would hope that people are bright enough to realize not to try to modify anything unless they knew "what" it was they were trying to change. Without some clue of that, it's not that unlikely for them to throw up their hands after missing a detail in a mod & say "See it doesn't improve things"
  
 He,he,he ... Modding or not really isn't a competition anyway! Go with what works for you  (which mode you prefer is only "special" to you; everyone knows "more or less" than everyone else it's all generic)


----------



## preproman

No one that I'm aware of was in any competition.  Just others expressing their thoughts about that particular mod.  
  
 As I'm aware, the mod was pretty damn easy to do and I heard two pair done by some pretty experienced modders.  It just wasn't my cup of tea, IMO it presented a veil that wasn't there before.  That's what i heard both times - So back to stock / with a hardwire SAA cable.  YMMV


----------



## knowhatimean

preproman said:


> No one that I'm aware of was in any competition.  Just others expressing their thoughts about that particular mod.
> 
> As I'm aware, the mod was pretty damn easy to do and I heard two pair done by some pretty experienced modders.  It just wasn't my cup of tea, IMO it presented a veil that wasn't there before.  That's what i heard both times - So back to stock / with a hardwire SAA cable.  YMMV


 
 Alright, The competition remark was a bit off the mark, but I'll stick by what I said about the Anax mod not being the "end all" of
 mods for these cans.
  
 I didn't have high hopes for it when I saw the statement on the PDF cutout patterns sheet that stated "The HD800 is supposed to be
 bright" (To which I though "BS". Sennheiser just "voiced" them to be that way & that wasn't my cup of tea, so I changed that by other
 means than the Anax)
  
 I'm a bit curious if you had anything other than SAA cable hardwired by them (or did you just hardwire the cable) ?
  
 Thanks


----------



## preproman

knowhatimean said:


> Alright, The competition remark was a bit off the mark, but I'll stick by what I said about the Anax mod not being the "end all" of
> mods for these cans.
> 
> I didn't have high hopes for it when I saw the statement on the PDF cutout patterns sheet that stated "The HD800 is supposed to be
> ...


 
  
  
 No.  Just had them Hardwired with the SAA Endorphin cable.  He offers an 'Ultra Mod" He also says he is an ex Sennheiser engineer.  
  
 I didn't get the mod, the Hardwire and the cable was about enough snake oil I could take.


----------



## pearljam50000

In this review:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/742673/comparison-review-a-tale-of-two-flagships-t1-vs-hd800

 He says the T1 has more clarity than the HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Has anyone else compared them and thinks the same?


----------



## brokenthumb

pearljam50000 said:


> In this review:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/742673/comparison-review-a-tale-of-two-flagships-t1-vs-hd800
> 
> He says the T1 has more clarity than the HD800
> ...


 
  
 I think the HD600 has more clarity than the T1, so my vote would be no.


----------



## nigeljames

brokenthumb said:


> I think the HD600 has more clarity than the T1, so my vote would be no.


 
  
 + 1


----------



## Priidik

pearljam50000 said:


> In this review:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/742673/comparison-review-a-tale-of-two-flagships-t1-vs-hd800
> 
> He says the T1 has more clarity than the HD800
> ...


 
 Through pretty much any chain i had to use (tubes, ss, different dacs) HD800 slays T1 in technicalities across the board, and not just slightly. Only thing i can see making T1 appeal more is its treble peak that is located in higher fr than HD800's, but it is much more in db than HD800's 6k peak. Some people are tolerant to that peak though, so i can understand how it could be bearable to them.
 In my honest opinion T1 is in the same class as Hd650, but i personally like the HD650 better for its better texture, lack of piercing treble and midrange tone&detail. To me T1 felt veiled even compared to HD650, so what clarity? T1 has tighter bass and more slam than HD650 though.


----------



## knowhatimean

preproman said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > Alright, The competition remark was a bit off the mark, but I'll stick by what I said about the Anax mod not being the "end all" of
> ...


 
 Okay !!!. I'm a bit stumped on that information ,so I let you go !
  
 Have a Good one !


----------



## Dragonsan

Got to listen to my HD800s after a brief hiatus due to classes (and other things)...
  
 Oh my god. These make my SE846s sound like $10 earbuds. o.o


----------



## johnjen

I too tried multiple anax type of mods, and while v.2 was the best of them and helped reduce listener fatigue it was the full SAA treatment that eliminated any further need for mods.
  
 One man's snake oil can be another's solution for his dissatisfaction.
  
 And if no modification is required to ameliorate an acoustic 'problem' that doesn't exist, so much the better…
  
  There is no standard for what is right in the first place, as we all value different sonic aspects…
  
 JJ


----------



## punit

dragonsan said:


> Got to listen to my HD800s after a brief hiatus due to classes (and other things)...
> 
> Oh my god. These make my SE846s sound like $10 earbuds. o.o


 

 Each one has its purpose. Try using the HD 800 in a gym..


----------



## Mach3

punit said:


> Each one has its purpose. Try using the HD 800 in a gym..


 
 I have, it works great. Can't say much about the gym session though. Not even one rep was completed


----------



## kothganesh

Punit,
  
 you had that coming


----------



## wink

Super-gluing the phones to your head solves the problem of slippage when working out.......


----------



## thecrow

Hi looking for some advice from some experienced hd800 owners
  
 I bought the hd 800s a couple of months ago and have really been enjoying them. It was these and the he560s that stood out for me and i went for the hd800s because of their soundstage and analytical nature (for the lack of a better term). I also have found myself drawn to the upper mids and highs and do not find these harsh
  
 However as we all know sub par recordings do not go well with these. Now I listen to cd and aiff files and i'm finding some recordings are lacking in magic. Others are fantastic. I am only using a cayin C5 (that i love) and an odac/o2 that i usually eq a little to add meat/texture. For now, I am quite happy with this - I knew this would be the case when I bought them.
  
 I am planning to audition a range of amps in the near future - based on my research of views here on head fi and other sources.
  
 My question is will cds that currently are "nothing special" improve with better amps (I have no idea what i'll spend but something under $1500 would be good) or would i need to spend a bucket load of money on amps and dacs to get there or do these tracks in fact have no hope? 
  
 Have I taken a wrong turn towards a dead end?
  
 your experienced views are most welcome
  
 cheers
 peter t


----------



## Sorrodje

IME, best and well suited amp for HD800 or dacs does wonder for all recordings  . A Rig that would allow us only to listen to perfect recordings wouldn't be a good one.  Bas recordings will always sound bad unfortunately.
  
 My recommendation is to ALWAYS use average recordings during tests and the right path is a bit narrow... the gear must do justice to best recordings and allow to listen quietly to average ones.  A too forgiving amp or dac does not do justice to the HD800 abiltiy to render stellar recordings .
  
 My 2 cents.


----------



## icebear

thecrow said:


> ...
> My question is will cds that currently are "nothing special" improve with better amps (I have no idea what i'll spend but something under $1500 would be good) or would i need to spend a bucket load of money on amps and dacs to get there or do these tracks in fact have no hope?
> 
> Have I taken a wrong turn towards a dead end?
> ...


 
  
 Hi there,
  
 the HD800 will tell it like it is. Any equally transparent component in your system (amp or DAC) will bring you closer to what is on the recording. If that recording has been messed up, it will not be a pleasure to listen to. Any amp that is not introducing some coloration will not make it nicer. Your taste of music will greatly affect if you will like to listen to it via the HD800.
  
 Any DAC that has been trimmed for "high resolution sound", will most likely not be a good match for HD800. I am not sure if info is available which DAC has been developed using the HD800 but I know that the exasound e20 has been finetuned using the Sennheiser as tool. I have never found any of the negatives others were complaining about. But OK that little thing is about $3k.


----------



## Priidik

thecrow said:


> However as we all know sub par recordings do not go well with these. Now I listen to cd and aiff files and i'm finding some recordings are lacking in magic. Others are fantastic. I am only using a cayin C5 (that i love) and an odac/o2 that i usually eq a little to add meat/texture.
> Have I taken a wrong turn towards a dead end?
> 
> your experienced views are most welcome
> ...


 
 In my experience a suitable mid range amplifier and dac are enough to enjoy HD800 with 95% of music. High feedback based opamp (or even discrete) circuits are the enemy of HD800, these make HD800 sound dead, distant and sibilant. 
 I recently compared a 'decent on paper' (measures 10x better than the Sansui) diamond buffer high feedback amplifier to an old and cheap Sansui integerated amp. The old Sansui made me realise how much crap floats around in the market at the present.


----------



## koiloco

dragonsan said:


> Got to listen to my HD800s after a brief hiatus due to classes (and other things)...
> 
> Oh my god. These make my SE846s sound like $10 earbuds. o.o


 
 That's a little exaggerated!  SE846s are a fine pair of IEM and you are comparing apple to orange.


----------



## wink

Some headphones are definitely lemons......  (Old Beats, looking at you.......)


----------



## ruthieandjohn

wink said:


> Some headphones are definitely lemons......  (Old Beats, looking at you.......)


 

 You mean, THESE old Beats...?
  

  
 or THESE?


----------



## TonyNewman

ruthieandjohn said:


> ...
> or THESE?


 
  
 I think I just threw up into my mouth a little there...


----------



## kothganesh

ruthieandjohn said:


> You mean, THESE old Beats...?
> 
> 
> 
> or THESE?


 
 OMG, this is downright heretical !!


----------



## Mach3

wink said:


> Some headphones are definitely lemons......  (Old Beats, looking at you.......)


 
  
 Bag Beats all you want, but the pair I bought from MacedonianHero are getting me stare everywhere I wear them.
 Of course I don't actually listen to music with them. They just make great fashion accessories/statement. All my cousin thinks I'm part of the cool kid now.


----------



## Dopaminer

ruthieandjohn said:


>


 
  
 So very, very wrong.


----------



## wink

Quote:Mach3 





> All my cousin thinks I'm part of the cool kid now.


 
 If you really wanna be cool, sit on a block of ice.........


----------



## knowhatimean

dopaminer said:


> ruthieandjohn said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
 Someone should see if Sennheiser has as sense of humor !
  
 Put this picture on a T-shirt , put the shirt on & then text them a picture of you giving the "Thumbs Up" sign !


----------



## TonyNewman

knowhatimean said:


> Someone should see if Sennheiser has as sense of humor !
> 
> Put this picture on a T-shirt , put the shirt on & then text them a picture of you giving the "Thumbs Up" sign !


 
  
 Isn't there something in the American Constitution forbidding 'cruel and unusual punishment'?
  
 This might qualify.


----------



## knowhatimean

tonynewman said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > Someone should see if Sennheiser has as sense of humor !
> ...


 
 Are you implying this would be "Politically Incorrect" ? (We wouldn't want to stir up anymore "International bad feeling" then we
 already have; though you could say you're from France & they'd be none the wiser 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Did you notice that the symbol that looks like the Beats lower case "b" is actually a lower-case "a?" That is to signify that these headphones are a-level quality, not b-level (and that at "a," we are one step ahead of those "b's" at Beats).

You can read more about how this symbol and the headphone medallion came to be in one of my first posts, "How I Plan To Fund My Headphone Addiction," here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/704339/how-i-plan-to-fund-my-new-headphone-addiction#post_10243434

In short, my venture seeks to bridge the fundamental gap of headphones... headphone that sound great vs. headphones that look great. It introduces a very expensive medallion that can be stuck on each earpiece of yourr very-best-sounding headphones, regardles of headphone model, making them attractive like Beats, while still sounding great. 

And in selling these medallions, I can fund my 36-headphone habit!


----------



## TonyNewman

knowhatimean said:


> Are you implying this would be "Politically Incorrect" ? (We wouldn't want to stir up anymore "International bad feeling" then we
> already have; though you could say you're from France & they'd be none the wiser
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm implying that it might cause some "_probably very serious about their products_" Sennheisser people to choke on their bratwurst 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Kinda like putting a Ted Bundy endorsement on a Twinkie - not really a good fit.


----------



## knowhatimean

tonynewman said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > Are you implying this would be "Politically Incorrect" ? (We wouldn't want to stir up anymore "International bad feeling" then we
> ...


 
 Actually, if you think about it the Bundy endorsement of Twinkies is a natural fit; They're both "Killers" that no one recognizes until it's
 too late !!!
  
 The Sennheiser people will just have to learn how to eat "Liverwurst" (If you can't have a "chuckle" about things every so often, maybe
 it's time to try something else; If they're smart enough to make a high quality product, they should be smart enough to see a "joke"
 for what it is)


----------



## edstrelow

About 2 years ago I became interested in the sonic problems of the metal headband with the Stax SR007 and came up with a damping system which imrpoved the sound quite a lot. The other day it was pointed out to me that Sennheiser appears to be doing the same thing with the HD800.
  
 Here I quote from their advertisement : "Metal headband with inner-damping element" http://en-us.sennheiser.com/dynamic-headphones-high-end-around-ear-hd-800. It even says "minimal resonance."
  
 This you tube video shows the headband in more detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlA84jbTkxk
  
 This one talks about "the worlds most advanced sound dampening frame:" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttLgOWgk7PU This is very much in line with what I am doing with Stax phones except that now I am more concerned with damping the earcups.
  
 Has anyone looked into the construction of the band? In one of the videos I swear I see something like sorbothane pads under the band when it is opened up. Apparently Sennheiser refers to "visco-elastic treatment"
  
 My search of this thread didn't turn aup any discussions of this topic. Anyone here looked into it?


----------



## ThreeKingdom

Their is some scratches and a very tiny small dent on my HD800 1/4 golden cable jack. 
  
 I'm know being paranoid but will it badly affect the sound quality ?


----------



## kapanak

threekingdom said:


> Their is some scratches and a very tiny small dent on my HD800 1/4 golden cable jack.
> 
> I'm know being paranoid but will it badly affect the sound quality ?


 

 They will have ABSOLUTELY no effect whatsoever on your sound quality. Plugs are meant to take a beating.


----------



## TonyNewman

kapanak said:


> They will have ABSOLUTELY no effect whatsoever on your sound quality. Plugs are meant to take a beating.


 
  
 A few scratches and dents, like a few body scars, adds character


----------



## kapanak

tonynewman said:


> A few scratches and dents, like a few body scars, adds character


 

 Like a wedding ring XD


----------



## ubs28

I have a few scratches on my Sennheiser HD800. These have a worse build quality than my Shure SRH 1840?
  
 I doesn't affect the sound so it's no problem. But it probably will reduce the re-sale value.


----------



## kapanak

ubs28 said:


> I have a few scratches on my Sennheiser HD800. These have a worse build quality than my Shure SRH 1840?


 

 The paint is known to scratch and chip for 6 years now. They must be treated nicely


----------



## ubs28

kapanak said:


> The paint is known to scratch and chip for 6 years now. They must be treated nicely


 

 I see. I'll baby them from now on


----------



## kapanak

ubs28 said:


> I see. I'll baby them from now on


 

 But honestly, I know a shop owner who's HD800 has probably been handled more than any of us here, for more than five years. It's been dropped and dragged and has tons of scratches and chips on it. These things are amazing. Not one alteration in the sound quality.
  
 That can only happen if you break the steel mesh. Just don't touch the mesh at all lol ...


----------



## akhyar

ubs28 said:


> I have a few scratches on my Sennheiser HD800. These have a worse build quality than my Shure SRH 1840?
> 
> I doesn't affect the sound so it's no problem. But it probably will reduce the re-sale value.




It's a well known issue. My first HD800 had few paint chips and scratches.
You can always send it to Colorware to have it painted with new coat of paints of your choice


----------



## wink

You could use sorbothane paint to increase the sound quality by 50%.......


----------



## paulchiu

dragonsan said:


> Got to listen to my HD800s after a brief hiatus due to classes (and other things)...
> 
> Oh my god. These make my SE846s sound like $10 earbuds. o.o


 
  
 woah.  I missed this post.
 I will give you $20 for your SE846


----------



## ruthieandjohn

kapanak said:


> The paint is known to scratch and chip for 6 years now. They must be treated nicely


 

 The Colorware custom colorization, done with automobile-quality paint, is said to be more resistant to chips and scratches than the original finish.  I have both Sennheiser amp and headphones from Colorware and there have been no scratches or chips, but they are only 9 months old.


----------



## billhickok

Anyone know if Sennheiser warranties are transferable as long as the headphones were originally purchased from an authorized dealer? I want to buy a second-hand set from someone who just purchased it a few months ago, so it should still have ~1.5 years left of warranty.
  
 If so, what does Sennheiser require for them to fulfill the warranty? I'm guessing just the original sales receipt?


----------



## MIKELAP

Can anybody tell me if the stock HD800 has 4 wires to the jack or 3 would like to make a balanced cable with XLR connector if possible it should have 4 .Thanks


----------



## Clear Water

billhickok said:


> Anyone know if Sennheiser warranties are transferable as long as the headphones were originally purchased from an authorized dealer? I want to buy a second-hand set from someone who just purchased it a few months ago, so it should still have ~1.5 years left of warranty.
> 
> If so, what does Sennheiser require for them to fulfill the warranty? I'm guessing just the original sales receipt?


 
 Have you tried registering on their site?  I got mine (new-ish) second-hand and I got an email confirmation that my warranty was in effect for the next 2 years.  As part of the registration I put that I had gotten them used; it didn't seem to matter since the unit wasn't already registered.


----------



## naimless

Yes it does,I think I found it in a thread on here sorry can't remember which one,might have been in a general HD800 one or a specific one about modifying one for balanced operation,got a feeling it was the latter but can't be sure.


----------



## Priidik

mikelap said:


> Can anybody tell me if the stock HD800 has 4 wires to the jack or 3 would like to make a balanced cable with XLR connector if possible it should have 4 .Thanks


 
 It has 4 and it works i have such termination to 4-pin xlr.


----------



## BobG55

mikelap said:


> Can anybody tell me if the stock HD800 has 4 wires to the jack or 3 would like to make a balanced cable with XLR connector if possible it should have 4 .Thanks


 

 +3 I had my HD800 stock cable converted to an 4 pin xlr connector.  
  
 I bought a Neutrik  xlr 4 pin _*male*_ connector & a Neutrik xlr *female *connector for the stock cable 1/4 single end connector & create an adaptor.  I had it done by an electrician friend of mine.  It works superbly.


----------



## jackskelly

akhyar said:


> It's a well known issue. My first HD800 had few paint chips and scratches.
> You can always send it to Colorware to have it painted with new coat of paints of your choice


 
  
 Yeah, with the choice of paint with a rather fragile body, I hope that their next flagship has a better overall build quality (and perhaps just uses aluminum, wood or something else for the outer earcups).


----------



## kapanak

jackskelly said:


> Yeah, with the choice of paint with a rather fragile body, I hope that their next flagship has a better overall build quality (and perhaps just uses aluminum, wood or something else for the outer earcups).


 

 The choice of the the Leona plastic, which is a 60% glass fiber filled, high stiffness specialized plastic, for the HD800 was not made lightly. It was selected purposely to avoid resonance (although the metal mesh reintroduced it lol), and to make it as lightweight as it can get. I'm sure as a previous owner, you'd agree it is perhaps one of the most comfortable headphones ever made, and one can wear it for many hours without any muscular fatigue.


----------



## Priidik

jackskelly said:


> with a rather fragile body,


 
 Not fragile. A studio monitor (15kg/33lbs) fell off from its stand straight to my HD800 on table.
 Zero dmg. Perhaps another paint chip richer tho


----------



## Dragonsan

paulchiu said:


> woah.  I missed this post.
> I will give you $20 for your SE846


 
  
 Haha. I'll consider it.
  
 They're still a fine pair of earphones nonetheless though.


----------



## Taowolf51

Waiting for Fedex to deliver my Valhalla 2. Should be here soon, hopefully. Fedex always delivers later than everyone else.
  
 I'll update with impressions with the HD800 later, I'm currently using my M-Stage to power my HD800's.


----------



## nephilim32

taowolf51 said:


> Waiting for Fedex to deliver my Valhalla 2. Should be here soon, hopefully. Fedex always delivers later than everyone else.
> 
> I'll update with impressions with the HD800 later, I'm currently using my M-Stage to power my HD800's.




That's really exciting. I hear great things about that schiit Valhalla 2. Enjoy. I'm sure it will be everything you hoped for. Quality amp.


----------



## Taowolf51

Well, it arrived a few minutes after making that post, and I've been listening ever since. 
  
 Build quality is a lot better than I expected. It's heavy, uses thick and well finished metal, all the switches are high quality, and the volume knob has a nice high quality weighty feel to it. Also, Schiit wasn't kidding when they said this amp runs hot. Holy crap!
  
  
 I'll keep sound impressions broad for now, since I haven't had much time with this amp. All impressions are at high gain unless noted. The M-Stage is not the new HPA-2 version, it's the 2010 or 2011 version. My DAC is currently an ODAC hooked up to a USB PCI-E card to minimize noise and distortion issues I had with normal USB ports.
  
 _________________________
  
 The M-Stage is darker, but the Valhalla 2 is warmer, meaning that deep bass and upper highs have increased compared to the M-Stage. I currently have an EQ (Equalizer APO) applied system-wide tuned for the HD800's. I will probably reduce the bass by a db or two and reduce the upper treble by a db on the EQ. I can imagine without an EQ, the Valhalla 2 would give more satisfying levels of bass than the M-Stage.
  
 The less dark nature of the Valhalla 2 means that they're more fatiguing than they used to be (admittedly, I am also listening to music at higher volumes than usual because of the New Amp Yummy Goodness™).
  
 Instrument separation is definitely improved with the Valhalla 2, but individual note separation (decay rate) is longer. Notes are more individual and fast sections are better with the M-Stage. (Some very minor testing with low gain on the V2 seems to help with this). I will say, however, that longer and intentional decays (upright bass especially) has more detail on the V2. Bass is less taught on the V2, but it's also stronger, so a reduction in the EQ may tighten it back up.
  
 Valhalla 2 is more impactful.
  
 Soundstage is larger and imaging is more defined with V2. Some would describe it as more "holographic".
  
 V2 is much more detailed. Yes, it does have more treble, but detail is better across the frequency range, notably in the bass and midrange.
  
 The V2 definitely sounds "tubey" to me compared to the M-Stage. I know some say it's not that tubey, but I definitely hear it. Low gain is definitely less tubey. I'm very glad I didn't go with a Crack, the Valhalla is a good amount of tubeyness, high gain is about as much tubeyness as I would want at the moment.
  
 The V2 does not get as loud as I would have expected considering the power rating. It should be a fair bit more powerful than the M-Stage, but I find the volume pot at similar levels on the V2 (high gain) and the M-Stage (18 gain). About 11:00-1:00 in high gain depending on the music, and around 3:00 on low gain. Really quiet music like Chesky stuff can get close to 3:00 at high gain, where I can hear noise from my ODAC. Of course, as noted before I could be listening to music louder than normal because of the new amp, so take the previous with some salt.
  
 The most notable difference between the two is that recorded music sounds quite a bit more "real" with the V2.
  
 Low gain seems better for electronic at the moment, and high gain seems better for stuff like classical, folk, and bluegrass.
 __________________________
  
  
 Please note that these are just first time use impressions, my impressions may change over the next few days/weeks. My brain getting used to the new amp's sound as well as whatever "burn-in" if necessary may also change my impressions.
  
 I'm happy to finally be the proud owner of a tube amp! I've wanted a good tube amp for a long time, but the HD800's are the first high Z headphones I've owned, so I finally had the chance to get into tubes when I picked them up mid last year. This amp may also play nice with my D7000's in low gain, which may be worth trying out.


----------



## Sorrodje

Great impressions @Taowolf51 . thanks for sharing


----------



## cocolinho

taowolf51 said:


> Waiting for Fedex to deliver my Valhalla 2. Should be here soon, hopefully. Fedex always delivers later than everyone else.
> 
> I'll update with impressions with the HD800 later, I'm currently using my M-Stage to power my HD800's.


 
  
 Great amp for HD800! it makes a fantastic combo paired with Bifrost Uber


----------



## BobG55

For Canadian members, Headphone Bar, located in Vancouver is selling the HD800 for $1,200.00 brand new, 0.1cent for s&h.  Of course there is tax.  Sorry to my American friends who may be interested, Headphone Bar only ships in Canada.


----------



## paradoxper

Wow. That may be cheaper than Jan Meier.


----------



## BobG55

bobg55 said:


> For Canadian members, Headphone Bar, located in Vancouver is selling the HD800 for $1,200.00 brand new, 0.1cent for s&h.  Of course there is tax.  Sorry to my American friends who may be interested, Headphone Bar only ships in Canada.


 

 I'm sorry about my overzealousness in wanting to help someone looking for a good deal; upon going back on the Headphone Bar site there is no "basket" icon next to the advertisement which usually means that they are out of stock.  I guess one can always contact them & asked them if they are getting more soon & if the price will remain the same.  Again, sorry about that.


----------



## BobG55

paradoxper said:


> Wow. That may be cheaper than Jan Meier.


 

 Yeah except they don't seem to have any left = out of stock.  I only noticed that after I posted about it.  Feel bad now, somewhat embarrassed.


----------



## paradoxper

bobg55 said:


> Yeah except they don't seem to have any left = out of stock.  I only noticed that after I posted about it.  Feel bad now, somewhat embarrassed.


 
 I'm sure someone will shoot them a message and see if there will be future stock. If not, there's always Meier.


----------



## BobG55

Yes, you're right about that but with the CDN $ being so low even a deal in the US can be void due to the currency exchange loss + the CDN Customs & Excise taxation fee.  At times it seems like it's a crime to make money in Canada, but that's another story/topic.


----------



## kapanak

bobg55 said:


> Yes, you're right about that but with the CDN $ being so low even a deal in the US can be void due to the currency exchange loss + the CDN Customs & Excise taxation fee.  At times it seems like it's a crime to make money in Canada, but that's another story/topic.


 

 Actually Headphones Bar has 3 in stock, but because of the big discount, they are only selling in-store.


----------



## BobG55

kapanak said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, you're right about that but with the CDN $ being so low even a deal in the US can be void due to the currency exchange loss + the CDN Customs & Excise taxation fee.  At times it seems like it's a crime to make money in Canada, but that's another story/topic.
> ...


 

 Thanks katakana.  Well then I suppose it's still good to talk about it on this thread even though the field as shrunk from CDNs to Vancouver & area residents/Head-fi members.  So in the end it's still all good.


----------



## paradoxper

bobg55 said:


> Yes, you're right about that but with the CDN $ being so low even a deal in the US can be void due to the currency exchange loss + the CDN Customs & Excise taxation fee.  At times it seems like it's a crime to make money in Canada, but that's another story/topic.


 
 Meier is in the EU. I recall my HD800 only costing me $1300 two years ago.


----------



## kapanak

bobg55 said:


> Well then I suppose it's still good to talk about it on this thread even though the field as shrunk from CDNs to Vancouver & area residents/Head-fi members.  So in the end it's still all good.


 

 Oh yeah, I purchased it for that price from Travis at Headphone Bar in December.


----------



## pearljam50000

I'm about to buy an amp for the HD800 (don't have them yet with me, they should arrive in two weeks or so)
 I'm considering the Vali or Magni 2.
 The Vali is recommended  by a lot of people here, but,  i never had a tube amp before so i'm not sure i'll like the sound.
 i like neutral sound, not warm and slow.
 And on the other hand the Magni 2 is also more powerful than the Vali.
 What should i do? Which one would you recommend?


----------



## MickeyVee

@pearljam50000 - When looking for an amp for the HD800, I'd recommend a complementary amp.  What I mean by complementary is that it plays to the strengths of the HD800 without accentuating the treble and making it harsh.  The Vali is what I would deem the minimum complementary entry level amp for the HD800.  I tried the original Magni and gave it a good shot but soon sold it.  I actually hated it and couldn't get rid of it fas enough That's just me.  I have a Vali but it is seldomly used not because its not a great little amp but because I have a Naim DAC-V1 and a McIntosh MXA70 (=MHA100) which are just kick ass with the HD800.  I have no issues and quite enjoy the Vali.  Check my gallery and you'll see a $2.5K Naim paired up with the Vali just for kicks.
 To make a long story short, I really like the Vali and as an entry level amp to pair with the HD800.  I duely recommend it assuming you have a relatively decent DAC. As always, YMMV.  For me, the Vali, although not used that much, is a keeper.


----------



## johnjen

Originally Posted by *pearljam50000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 





> I'm about to buy an amp for the HD800 (don't have them yet with me, they should arrive in two weeks or so)
> I'm considering the Vali or Magni 2.
> The Vali is recommended  by a lot of people here, but,  i never had a tube amp before so i'm not sure i'll like the sound.
> i like neutral sound, not warm and slow.
> ...


 
 Tubes, ah yes tubes…
  
 With 800's and their high impedance you have the option to use a particular tube designs to it's fullest advantage..
  
 OTL (OutputTransfromerLess) 
 What this means is the tube is directly coupled to the HP's and there is no transformer in the middle.
  
 This has some very significant advantages.
 Not the least of which is circuit simplicity.
 And cost.
  
 But the biggest is in SQ.
  
 Here are 2 wonderful examples;
 There is the Schiit Vallha 2
 http://schiit.com/products/valhalla-2
  
 and the Crack build-it-your-self kit from Bottlehead
 http://bottlehead.com/crack-otl-headphone-amplifier-kit-specs/
  
 However if you don't want to head in this direction, at least keep it in mind as a future possibility
 And this doesn't even touch on tube rolling… 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 JJ


----------



## bearFNF

Agree like the Vali very much with the HD 800.


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks, but my budget is 150$, so i guess the Vali is my only option at this price.
 Quote:


johnjen said:


> Tubes, ah yes tubes…
> 
> With 800's and their high impedance you have the option to use a particular tube designs to it's fullest advantage..
> 
> ...


----------



## MattTCG

I have a Valhalla 2 fs with extra tubes


----------



## akhyar

Get the Vali.
Never heard the Magni2, but the original Magni to drive the HD800 is a no go for me


----------



## cocolinho

akhyar said:


> Get the Vali.


 
 +1


----------



## Takeanidea

pearljam50000 said:


> In this review:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/742673/comparison-review-a-tale-of-two-flagships-t1-vs-hd800
> 
> He says the T1 has more clarity than the HD800
> ...


 

 The T1 has a more pronounced treble response compared to the HD800, it is a more closed soundstage than the HD800. There is no issue with the clarity of an HD800 to my ears and having had both headphones at the same time for a year.
 The T1 is a fine headphone which some will prefer over the HD800 on an audition, some jazz fans or acoustic music or string quartet appreciators - I'm not knocking any owners of them. My tastes over time meant the T1s got no listening time


----------



## Takeanidea

kyle 491 said:


> The T1 is mediocre by even mid-fi standards, the midrange to lower treble distortion is significantly higher than a HD600 or K701; it gets outresolved by the HD600/650 when it comes to fine background detail & ambiance and cannot reproduce instantaneous clean edges & snappy transient response to the level of the K701. The T1's bass response is barely better than the above given that it cheats with a semi-closed design. Forget about comparing it to the HD800.


 

 The T1 is a good phone but the sound signature is not an easy one to get used to compared to the HD800. I preferred the HD800s hands down for bass response fuller sound non fatiguing you name it


----------



## Mr Rick

johnjen said:


> Tubes, ah yes tubes…
> 
> With 800's and their high impedance you have the option to use a particular tube designs to it's fullest advantage..
> 
> ...


 
  
 I just ordered my HD 800s .
  
 I have the Valhalla 2, Lyr and Vali so I guess I'm pretty well set in that department, but I'm considering the balanced outputs of the Mjolnir. I already have balanced cables for my HD 650s.
  
 So, is anyone using a Schiit Mjolnir with their 800s??


----------



## RRod

akhyar said:


> Get the Vali.
> Never heard the Magni2, but the original Magni to drive the HD800 is a no go for me


 
  
 Original Magni works just fine for me.


----------



## MattTCG

mr rick said:


> I just ordered my HD 800s .
> 
> I have the Valhalla 2, Lyr and Vali so I guess I'm pretty well set in that department, but I'm considering the balanced outputs of the Mjolnir. I already have balanced cables for my HD 650s.
> 
> So, is anyone using a Schiit Mjolnir with their 800s??


 
  
 The mojo is a great amp but was not great with the 800 for me. It works better with darker cans like the hd650, lcd2...


----------



## Mr Rick

matttcg said:


> The mojo is a great amp but was not great with the 800 for me. It works better with darker cans like the hd650, lcd2...


 
  
 What are you using now with your 800s?? The Crack?


----------



## MattTCG

The Crack is excellent but the Valhalla 2 is powering the 800 right...BUT, the ifi stack of power has finally brought the warmth and sweetness to the 800 for me.


----------



## olor1n

matttcg said:


> mr rick said:
> 
> 
> > I just ordered my HD 800s .
> ...




How well the MJ pairs with the HD800 all hinges on the quality of components upstream. You don't need a thick, syrupy signature to compensate for the Mjolnir's zest, but if your source has a hint of etch and is overly shouty - then forget about it.

I have a Ragnarok incoming. It'll be interesting to hear how one of the supposedly worst amps for the HD800 in the Mjolnir pales compared to one that has been lauded as one of the best.


----------



## Anavel0

matttcg said:


> The Crack is excellent but the Valhalla 2 is powering the 800 right...BUT, the ifi stack of power has finally brought the warmth and sweetness to the 800 for me.


Just give him a week, folks. He'll have a Crack and/or Valhalla 2 again. Then leave them for something else.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ You must have missed the memo. I've already started the retirement process. Someone else will have to carry on...


----------



## Mr Rick

matttcg said:


> ^^ You must have missed the memo. I've already started the retirement process. Someone else will have to carry on...


 
 I'm just starting. So that might be me!


----------



## johnjen

mr rick said:


> I just ordered my HD 800s .
> 
> I have the Valhalla 2, Lyr and Vali so I guess I'm pretty well set in that department, but I'm considering the balanced outputs of the Mjolnir. I already have balanced cables for my HD 650s.
> 
> So, is anyone using a Schiit Mjolnir with their 800s??


 
 I was until I upgraded to The Rok.
  
 I found it was well matched to the 800's and it scaled really well too.
  
 But since the 800's will reveal every wart, blemish etc., it does mean the rest of the chain needs to be at a 'comparable' level of performance in order to avoid 'unpleasantries', because the Mojo amp will pass them right along, warts and all…
  
 Of course some combinations of gear can self balance their sonic contributions so as to not be unpleasant, but my experience with the Mojo was never fraught with such issues.
  
 JJ


----------



## peanuthead

Have people been having issues with recent runs of HD800?  Amazon is currently not selling them due to customer issues???


----------



## olor1n

johnjen said:


> mr rick said:
> 
> 
> > I just ordered my HD 800s .
> ...


 

 Right on. You're the only other person in all of headfidom who has lived with the Mjolnir/HD800 pairing without labelling it as a bad match. I haven't really felt the urge to upgrade from the Mjolnir as I think I'd reached the right balance with the rest of my system some time ago. Speakers beckon however, and the Ragnarok allows me to murder some birds with the same stone. Can't wait to hear what all the fuss is about surrounding the Rag.


----------



## johnjen

olor1n said:


> Right on. You're the only other person in all of headfidom who has lived with the Mjolnir/HD800 pairing without labelling it as a bad match. I haven't really felt the urge to upgrade from the Mjolnir as I think I'd reached the right balance with the rest of my system some time ago. Speakers beckon however, and the Ragnarok allows me to murder some birds with the same stone. Can't wait to hear what all the fuss is about surrounding the Rag.


 
 Since I'm listening to The Rok even as I type this, I believe I can state that this step up will be everything the Mojo is, only WAY more.
  
 Everything takes a mother may I step up, everything, and some aspects may even take 2 steps… 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 JJ


----------



## deuter

Guys do we consider the Rok to be the finest amp with the hd800?


----------



## wink

I'd go for scissors or paper......  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Oh...,  did you mean Ragnarok.? We never have a concensus here on Head-Fi.
  
 There are too many people with different experiences along with trolls, shills and tone deaf dudes who don't know the difference between violin and a kettledrum pushing their opinions.
  
 Best thing is to read carefully and then take the plunge and find out which camp you fall into.


----------



## 4N6

deuter said:


> Guys do we consider the Rok to be the finest amp with the hd800?




No


----------



## wink

For every owner, there are N=1 opinions.


----------



## deuter

wink said:


> I'd go for scissors or paper......
> 
> Oh...,  did you mean Ragnarok.? We never have a concensus here on Head-Fi.
> 
> ...




And any advise in the hd800 amp side of things ?


----------



## deuter

4n6 said:


> No




OK, what then


----------



## wink

Something that has power and great clarity.   and preferably class A


----------



## deuter

wink said:


> Something that has power and great clarity.   and preferably class A




You mean audio gd ?


----------



## Kyle 491

> Guys do we consider the Rok to be the finest amp with the hd800?


 
  
 Nope. Not even close. It's got very good resolution and microdynamics but doesn't give enough bass weight to the HD800, and soundstage size isn't any bigger than an M-Stage. It also requires a really good DAC to get the most out of technicalities, you won't see much of an improvement on an average DAC other than a smoother treble response on the HD800. High end tube amps have better staging, more bass weight, especially in the midbass, and can sound just as fluid and smooth as the Ragnarok.


----------



## deuter

kyle 491 said:


> Nope. Not even close. It's got very good resolution and microdynamics but doesn't give enough bass weight to the HD800, and soundstage size isn't any bigger than an M-Stage. It also requires a really good DAC to get the most out of technicalities, you won't see much of an improvement on an average DAC other than a smoother treble response on the HD800. High end tube amps have better staging, more bass weight, especially in the midbass, and can sound just as fluid and smooth as the Ragnarok.




That's what I felt too. 
My Leben CS300X gives me all that you have described and yes I do use a Luxman da 06 for a dac. 
But like everyone I was curious.


----------



## olor1n

kyle 491 said:


> > Guys do we consider the Rok to be the finest amp with the hd800?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Not sure how the requirement for a good dac can be a slight against an amp. This is the HD800 we're talking about after all. At this level, and if the Ragnarok is as resolving as they say, of course a weaker dac will lower the performance ceiling. This is a good thing in my book. It means the amp itself isn't adding anything that's not in the source material. Some people like their amps to colour the presentation though. Nothing wrong with that, but it highlights the futility of attempting to rate a component with the authority of a "Nope" "Not even close" when individual preferences differ so starkly.
  
 I know there are some who've been underwhelmed by the Ragnarok, but those who've spent some time with it and are familiar with higher end components have generally had very good things to say. Keep in mind that the Ragnarok fills other needs too (speaker amp) and not everyone is willing to spiral down the tube rolling rabbit-hole. The Ragnarok has been lauded as among the best SS amps for the H800 by ears I can calibrate my preferences against. It even gets compared to the top-tier tube amps that apparently have great synergy with the HD800. It may "not be close" by your reckoning, but it seems to be a component punching well above its weight - all things considered. Classic Schiit.


----------



## wink

Quotelor1n 





> but it highlights the futility of attempting to rate a component with the authority of a "Nope" "Not even close" when individual preferences differ so starkly.


 
 The reports from the SoCal CanJam reports reveal that...


----------



## longbowbbs

Awesome chart Wink!
  
 The Moon Neo 430HA is a great match with the HD800's. Best SS I have heard with them so far.


----------



## wink

Quote:longbowbbs 





> Awesome chart Wink!


 
 I found it in one of the posts in the SoCaql CanJam impressions thread.
  
 The scary thing is it applies to any 10 headphone reviewed here oh Head-Fi.


----------



## Sorrodje

@deuter : look for people who have the HD800 as their end-game or favourite headphone for a long time.  The best amp fot the HD800 is the one that allows the HD800 to eliminate almost all competitors.  
  
 You can do a google search with those keywords "best amps for Sennheiser HD800" and you will find interesting threads here or there too.


----------



## longbowbbs

wink said:


> Quote:longbowbbs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 True that! A great representation of our madness....


----------



## wink

Quote:Sorrodje 





> You can do a google search with those keywords "best amps for Sennheiser HD800" and you will find interesting threads here or there too.


 
 and, sadly the same graph applies for any 10 amps reviewed with the HD800...
  
 
  
 Just change the headphone names for amp names or, even DAC names...


----------



## MattTCG

The hd800 responds to an amp and upstream gear more dramatically than any other hp that I've ever owned or tried. The "best" amp for the 800 will be the one that makes this hp sound like you want it to. The lcd2 pre fazor was previously my favorite hp for bass response. But now, the hd800 has my favorite bass response, just by changing the amp.


----------



## Sorrodje

I just give sources that match my own experience. I don't claim it's the truth. Their no truth apart of  what time teach us that's why I said : 
  


sorrodje said:


> @deuter : look for people who have the HD800 as their end-game or favourite headphone for a long time.  The best amp fot the HD800 is the one that allows the HD800 to eliminate almost all competitors.


 
  
 Much much blathering based on unsignificant experience in every threads. Much less people who lives with a headphone during a long time.


----------



## wink

I've had mine for years......


----------



## Sorrodje

wink said:


> I've had mine for years......


 
  
 That's significant experience. So Maybe you can enlight us with some of this experience instead of sneering ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Experienced people are partly responsible if they let blathering invades forums.


----------



## wink

I do not sneer, and I cannot be held responsible for all the blathering that goes on here as I have no control over it.
  
 I try to educate with facts, huomr and some well pointed sarcasm.
  
 I cannot stop some newbie who has just moved from iBuds to a Koss KC35 or Grado SR60 from thinking they have found the holy grail of headphones.
  
 I also cannot stop others from thinking an O2 and ODAC is a match made in heaven, or the Starving Student is all one ever needs for any headphone.
  
 I stand innocent of all charges of denigrating or disparaging remarks here on Head-Fi


----------



## Sorrodje

I understand where you come from but it's a sadly an underlying trend in forums .. most vocal people are not the most informative.  S/N ratio plunges into Abyss. 
  
 I asked you a question a few posts ago .. you never answered   : What's your impressions about he HE60 vs HD800 please ?


----------



## MattTCG

sorrodje said:


> I understand where you come from but it's a sadly an underlying trend in forums .. most vocal people are not the most informative.  S/N ratio plunges into Abyss.
> 
> I asked you a question a few posts ago .. you never answered   : What's your impressions about he HE60 vs HD800 please ?


I can offer hd800 vs he90 I'd you want.


----------



## olor1n

@wink Do you use the Schiit Wyrd with the NAD M51? Does the NAD benefit much from it?


----------



## wink

Quote:Sorrodje


> I asked you a question a few posts ago .. you never answered   : What's your impressions about he HE60 vs HD800 please ?


 
 Sorry, I must have missed that.
  
 The HE-60 with the KGSSHV is better than the HD800 with the 80W/Channel Class A balanced amp, or any other amp I have tried.
  
 I find the HE60 addictive, and yet I like the SR-007 more, but only after listening to the SR-007 for at least 3 songs to get accustomed to it..
  
 But, as always YMMV.


----------



## wink

Quotelor1n 





> @wink Do you use the Schiit Wyrd with the NAD M51? Does the NAD benefit much from it?


 
 I have tried it once, but I was distracted with other things at the time.
  
 I will have to take the time to do a proper test in the near future.


----------



## kothganesh

sorrodje said:


> I understand where you come from but it's a sadly an underlying trend in forums .. most vocal people are not the most informative.  S/N ratio plunges into Abyss.
> 
> I asked you a question a few posts ago .. you never answered   : What's your impressions about he HE60 vs HD800 please ?



Sorro: are you eyeing the same HE60?


----------



## wink

Quote:MattTCG 





> I can offer hd800 vs he90 I'd you want.


 
 That's a real easy one....  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The HE-90/HEV-90 was the best headphone system I have ever heard.
 It was connected to a Krell SACD Master and it's still has me wishing it was mine.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I heard it on 3 different occasions.


----------



## Sorrodje

matttcg said:


> I can offer hd800 vs he90 I'd you want.


 
  
 Sure ! 
  
 @Wink : Thks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ..  BTW your answer does not help me (and my wallet)


----------



## Sorrodje

kothganesh said:


> Sorro: are you eyeing the same HE60?


 
  
  
 No  .. i ask for the future


----------



## wink

Quote:Sorrodje 





> @Wink : Thks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It murdered my wallet.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 I bought 2 HE-60's      
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's educational to think that if I saved all my loot I have spent on headphones and related gear, I could have gotten a HE-90 Orpheus.
  
 ButI would not have had the enjoyment of my journey thus far.  I am not disappointed.


----------



## MattTCG

sorrodje said:


> Sure !
> 
> @Wink : Thks
> 
> ...


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/729093/flagship-hp-mini-review


----------



## Sorrodje

matttcg said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/729093/flagship-hp-mini-review




Great read. Thks!


----------



## shabta

matttcg said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/729093/flagship-hp-mini-review


 
 Thanks for posting this, I missed it first time around. 
  
 I once got an opportunity to try all three cans at meet. It was a slow hour, and I got lots of time with each. I think the orpheus 90 is everything everyone says, the most musical headphone experience I ever had. The Stax SR009 does somethings I have never heard before. But what shocked me was that at the end of the day, I didn't think the HD800 was so far away from this league. It had more in common with these headphones than not. And my interest in replacing the HD800s was no more, considering the cost to make what I would describe as a mostly marginal upgrade. Honestly, I wasn't even sure the Stax were better, just a little different. In fact, if I were to get another expensive headphone it would probably be an SR007, since it sound palette is so different and so musical. But if sennheiser ever decides to release an electrostatic again, I might bite.


----------



## Lavakugel

Does anybody now if there will be soon a new hd 800. I mean it's now six years old.
  
 I'm considering of buying one...or the new model...


----------



## paulchiu

lavakugel said:


> Does anybody now if there will be soon a new hd 800. I mean it's now six years old.
> 
> I'm considering of buying one...or the new model...


 
  
 yes, six years is too long.  bring back the HE90!


----------



## kapanak

lavakugel said:


> Does anybody now if there will be soon a new hd 800. I mean it's now six years old.
> 
> I'm considering of buying one...or the new model...


 
 Does it have any serious competitor that beats it in every aspect across the board? If not, Sennheiser is doing just fine with this model. Once Anax 3.0 mod is released, HD800 will be even better.
  
 And come on, we're just at 37,000 serial number now. Any other top of the line headphones or ANY TOTL audiophile product that has sold as much?


----------



## olor1n

wink said:


> > @wink
> > Do you use the Schiit Wyrd with the NAD M51? Does the NAD benefit much from it?
> 
> 
> ...




Keen to read your findings. Thanks wink.


----------



## James-uk

I'm currently having a session with 800s via tidal > MacBook air>O2/odac. Absolutely flawless combo! The detail/ clarity / accuracy is unbelievable . Nothing is missing, It's so revealing and clean I kind of get where the O2 haters come from, this kind of accuracy and detail is a little bit disconcerting ! I love music and I want to hear it in its purist form , warts and all! That's why I love this combo! It is delivering the purist music I've ever heard. I wouldn't want it any other way !!!!


----------



## pearljam50000

Anyone else also likes the O2/odac with the HD800?
 It's so weird reading so much contradicting opinions, some think it's great and some think it's crap


----------



## guido

pearljam50000 said:


> Anyone else also likes the O2/odac with the HD800?
> It's so weird reading so much contradicting opinions, some think it's great and some think it's crap


 

 If you have never heard the HD800 with anything else it may sound great at first....just never compare it on a better amp...


----------



## James-uk

guido said:


> If you have never heard the HD800 with anything else it may sound great at first....just never compare it on a better amp...



I've owned / own v200 , burson amps, hdvd800, several receivers and have auditioned a few more. The O2 gets the most out of the hd800 imo. Now if you want to 'tame' the beast that is the hd800 then I can understand using high output inpedance tube amps etc to dumb it down but I didn't spend £1000 on one of the finest headphones ever made to them try and turn it into a hd600. I own the hd600 for when I want that sound and its simultaneously running on my dac1 usb for whenever I want to quickly swap things up


----------



## deuter

james-uk said:


> I've owned / own v200 , burson amps, hdvd800, several receivers and have auditioned a few more. The O2 gets the most out of the hd800 imo. Now if you want to 'tame' the beast that is the hd800 then I can understand using high output inpedance tube amps etc to dumb it down but I didn't spend £1000 on one of the finest headphones ever made to them try and turn it into a hd600. I own the hd600 for when I want that sound and its simultaneously running on my dac1 usb for whenever I want to quickly swap things up





Does high impedance amp tame the hd800 treble?


----------



## James-uk

deuter said:


> Does high impedance amp tame the hd800 treble?



Well due to damping factor and the hd800s impedance characteristics , high output inpedance will have an effect on the frequency response . It basically drops some of the higher frequencies down a little bit and boosts the mid bass a tad , this combination 'masks' the supposed slight brightness of the HD800. I personally now feel the hd800 is pretty much bang on neutral so this would make it a little bit warm . To others who think it's bright it would make it sound more neutral. One thing I will say is a lot of an amps 'sound signiture' is down to your expectation of what it should sound like , it happens To us all! If I have a massive , powerful , warm running expensive tube amp that I have been told is killer with the hd800 and then the lowly little black box that is the O2 next to it , my brain is already expecting a clear winner!!!! Take that aspect out of the equation ie listen to them whilst blindfolded , and the difference becomes much smaller if at all! again high output inpedance DOES actually change the sound but if those 2 amps have a similar output inpedance then they would pretty much sound the same . My advise is do some research, try to remove bias from your experiments and get the amp that you think makes the hd800 sound good. At the end of the day even if you can't hear a difference blind but it makes you feel better with amp A rather than amp B then you will enjoy the music more .


----------



## deuter

My case is a little strange, I had the Leben CS300X and was told you have to try the hd800 with it as it's a match made in another galaxy. 
So I did, and what do I hear? 
A very detailed headphone across the frequency range. 
Am I missing the plot? As I fail to understand why numerous people are doing all these mods.


----------



## zilch0md

peanuthead said:


> Have people been having issues with recent runs of HD800?  Amazon is currently not selling them due to customer issues???


 
  
 That notice is horribly ambiguous.  What "problem" are they working to fix as quickly as possible?
  
 I suspect I know what the problem is (just a hunch):  One too many Amazon customers have "rented" the HD800 for a few days then returned it with a trumped up excuse to get a full refund. Amazon doesn't want to be in the business of lending out flagship headphones for free trials. (Again, that's just my suspicion.)
  
 If anyone in the U.S. wants to borrow several flagship headphones at a time, for up to two weeks, with the earnest intent of selecting and buying a pair, look no further than this site:
  
 http://www.thecableco.com/Product/NEW-Headphone-Lending-Library
  
  


deuter said:


> That's what I felt too.
> My Leben CS300X gives me all that you have described and yes I do use a Luxman da 06 for a dac.
> But like everyone I was curious.


 
  


deuter said:


> My case is a little strange, I had the Leben CS300X and was told you have to try the hd800 with it as it's a match made in another galaxy.
> So I did, and what do I hear?
> A very detailed headphone across the frequency range.
> *Am I missing the plot?* As I fail to understand why numerous people are doing all these mods.


 
  
 Hi deuter,
  
 I don't think you're missing anything - not with a $3000 DAC and a $2500 amp.  I suspect your HD800 rig indeed sounds wonderful.
  
 And I agree that mods can be avoided with the right combination of DAC and amp, even with a few combinations that cost less than yours.


----------



## Kyle 491

> Some people like their amps to colour the presentation though. Nothing wrong with that, but it highlights the futility of attempting to rate a component with the authority of a "Nope" "Not even close" when individual preferences differ so starkly.


 
 The man asked a question if the Ragnarok was the best amp period for the HD800, I put forward my input. From my response, it should be obvious what my preferences and priorities for the HD800 are; namely staging, bass weight & impact and tonal balance. I've owned the Ragnarok for a few months now, and its strengths IMO lie elsewhere with the HD800. To fully exploit those strengths (Resolution & microdynamics), you need a top DAC. For someone who prioritises these things above all else, has a suitable DAC and is perfectly content with the stock HD800 tonal balance, the Ragnarok may be the best choice for a solid state amp. Maybe you're annoyed that I'm claiming to be an ultimate authority on the HD800/Ragnarok pairing, or maybe you're rationalising your purchase by pontificating about the subjectivity of opinions, but the fact that there is already strong disagreement from Ragnarok owners should tell you something about the Ragnarok's claim of best amp for the HD800.


----------



## preproman

james-uk said:


>


 
  
  
 I don't know much about the O2, never heard one.  Is this a discrete circuit or does it use op-amps?


----------



## wink

Quoterepoman 





> Is this a discrete circuit or does it use op-amps?


 
 I think it uses biscuit tins......


----------



## Priidik

deuter said:


> My case is a little strange, I had the Leben CS300X and was told you have to try the hd800 with it as it's a match made in another galaxy.
> So I did, and what do I hear?
> A very detailed headphone across the frequency range.
> Am I missing the plot? As I fail to understand why numerous people are doing all these mods.


 
 The Leben CS300XS to my ears removed all nastiness in treble of HD800,
 but in comparison to some other amplifiers it was clear to me it makes everything too romantic for my tastes. 
 I thought its technical weak spot was bass performance. It couldn't resolve complex orchestral passages in lower registers.


----------



## Taowolf51

priidik said:


> Transparent is a strong word.


 
  
 Transparent in the sense that it satisfies the specific measurements specifications outlined by some as "audibly transparent".


----------



## Taowolf51

I was waiting for the sparks to fly, but so far it's been disappointingly civil and my popcorn is starting to get cold.


----------



## 4N6

preproman said:


> Optimizing the sound signature is not sound accuracy....


 
 What IS sound accuracy?!? Unless one were there during the recording of the music and heard it live first hand, how does one really know what is "accurate"? Different microphones, different recorders, different studios, different mixing consoles, different speakers for the engineer to listen to...all of this and more leads to the wildly different levels of quality we hear in our LP's, CD's and downloads. Add to that the differences in our listening equipment (amps, headphones, cables, etc.), then it is practically impossible for the listener to expect anything to be truly accurate.
  
 So, based on the quickly moving target that is quality sound reproduction, how does a manufacturer of any component make something accurate (to their ears)? They optimize the sound signature of their component with careful circuit design and selection of parts. With good design and execution, hopefully the created component will reproduce music that the listener will find enjoyable, and perhaps, even "accurate."
  
 With that being said, I really love the HD800 sound being driven by the McIntosh MHA100 amplifier. When used with the exaSound e22 DAC, this optimized sound signature is pretty darned accurate to my ears!


----------



## preproman

4n6 said:


> What IS sound accuracy?!? Unless one were there during the recording of the music and heard it live first hand, how does one really know what is "accurate"? Different microphones, different recorders, different studios, different mixing consoles, different speakers for the engineer to listen to...all of this and more leads to the wildly different levels of quality we hear in our LP's, CD's and downloads. Add to that the differences in our listening equipment (amps, headphones, cables, etc.), then it is practically impossible for the listener to expect anything to be truly accurate.
> 
> So, based on the quickly moving target that is quality sound reproduction, how does a manufacturer of any component make something accurate (to their ears)? They optimize the sound signature of their component with careful circuit design and selection of parts. With good design and execution, hopefully the created component will reproduce music that the listener will find enjoyable, and perhaps, even "accurate."
> 
> With that being said, I really love the HD800 sound being driven by the McIntosh MHA100 amplifier. When used with the exaSound e22 DAC, this optimized sound signature is pretty darned accurate to my ears!


 

 Let's say the original sound off the "CD"
  
 When you are able to change the original sound off the "CD" according to your preference i.e... eq.  The original sound has changed therefore is not accurate.  Accurate = the original sound off the "CD" so to speak..


----------



## Taowolf51

preproman said:


> Let's say the original sound off the "CD"
> 
> When you are able to change the original sound off the "CD" according to your preference i.e... eq.  The original sound has changed therefore is not accurate.  Accurate = the original sound off the "CD" so to speak..


 
  
 Now, if you had a headphone that wasn't ideally "accurate" (boosted bass, treble, or whatever), and you use EQ to correct said inaccurate headphone, do you consider the EQ'd headphone to be more or less accurate?


----------



## preproman

taowolf51 said:


> Now, if you had a headphone that wasn't ideally "accurate" (boosted bass, treble, or whatever), and you use EQ to correct said inaccurate headphone, do you consider the EQ'd headphone to be more or less accurate?


 
  
 I would get another pair of headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway not talking about headphones - talking about op-amps.  So that makes this Off-Topic...  Back to the HD800s....


----------



## Zoom25

After two months exclusively on HD 800, today I brought the KRK KNS 8400 and Denon AH-D2000 out of storage. The KRK's sounded so flat and closed and unnatural sounding. Also, all that isolation felt heavy. The D2000 had that sub bass and extension that was really entertaining for 3 mins. After that, the lack of depth in soundstage, resolution, bass speed, imaging, breast of fresh air, resolution. Man I'm so spoiled by the HD 800. These headphones at one time could at least get the job done for a few hours. Now I couldn't tolerate them for more than a few minutes. Hip hop and rap is straight dopeness on HD 800.
  
 I have no idea what I'm going to do for the month and a half trip out of the country next month. Anything that comes close to HD 800 in closed form?


----------



## brokenthumb

preproman said:


> *I would get a mother pair of headphones*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Actually I heard it is the father pair that has the boosted bass.


----------



## deuter

zoom25 said:


> After two months exclusively on HD 800, today I brought the KRK KNS 8400 and Denon AH-D2000 out of storage. The KRK's sounded so flat and closed and unnatural sounding. Also, all that isolation felt heavy. The D2000 had that sub bass and extension that was really entertaining for 3 mins. After that, the lack of depth in soundstage, resolution, bass speed, imaging, breast of fresh air, resolution. Man I'm so spoiled by the HD 800. These headphones at one time could at least get the job done for a few hours. Now I couldn't tolerate them for more than a few minutes. Hip hop and rap is straight dopeness on HD 800.
> 
> I have no idea what I'm going to do for the month and a half trip out of the country next month. Anything that comes close to HD 800 in closed form?





Yes, the th900


----------



## wink

Quote:Olor1n 





> As such, I could not care less about your views to be frank. It's just posturing and noise. Typical headfi. Yawn.


 
 true dat.    
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But,   but,   that's what makes this such a fun place to visit.
  
 You can read all the distorted views people have who don't have your (my) sonically balanced and calibrated sanitised version of reality.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And, that's why I need to end this post with the obligatory *YMMV*...


----------



## wink

Quoterepoman 





> Let's say the original sound off the "CD"
> When you are able to change the original sound off the "CD" according to your preference i.e... eq.  The original sound has changed therefore is not accurate.  Accurate = the original sound off the "CD" so to speak..


 
 YES......  That is what TRUE high fidelity is supposed to be ALL about.
  
 Rotten should be allowed to sound rotten.
  
 Otherwise all you're doing is making a silk purse out of a sow's ear and putting lipstick on a pig.


----------



## punit

zoom25 said:


> I have no idea what I'm going to do for the month and a half trip out of the country next month. Anything that comes close to HD 800 in closed form?


 
 Quote:


deuter said:


> Yes, the th900


 
 It is closed only in name, isolates nothing, cannot be used outdoors or in a noisy environment. But yes, good complimentary cans to HD 800 IMO.


----------



## ubs28

preproman said:


> Let's say the original sound off the "CD"
> 
> When you are able to change the original sound off the "CD" according to your preference i.e... eq.  The original sound has changed therefore is not accurate.  Accurate = the original sound off the "CD" so to speak..


 

 Original sound of the CD is not accurate. A recorded instrument is heavily modified by compressors, limiters, equalisers and sometimes even alot more other effects. Even microphones can have a certain signature.


----------



## wink

True, but your equipment should replicate the sound from the CD as it was recorded onto the CD.
  
 The recording engineers and any equipment used, good or bad, are irrelevant in this case.


----------



## ubs28

4n6 said:


> What IS sound accuracy?!? Unless one were there during the recording of the music and heard it live first hand, how does one really know what is "accurate"? Different microphones, different recorders, different studios, different mixing consoles, different speakers for the engineer to listen to...all of this and more leads to the wildly different levels of quality we hear in our LP's, CD's and downloads. Add to that the differences in our listening equipment (amps, headphones, cables, etc.), then it is practically impossible for the listener to expect anything to be truly accurate.
> 
> So, based on the quickly moving target that is quality sound reproduction, how does a manufacturer of any component make something accurate (to their ears)? They optimize the sound signature of their component with careful circuit design and selection of parts. With good design and execution, hopefully the created component will reproduce music that the listener will find enjoyable, and perhaps, even "accurate."
> 
> With that being said, I really love the HD800 sound being driven by the McIntosh MHA100 amplifier. When used with the exaSound e22 DAC, this optimized sound signature is pretty darned accurate to my ears!


 
  
 An accurate sound is how it sounds true to life. Hence the recording shouldn't alter the original sound, nor the should the chain and equipement  of the listener shouldn't alter the recording.


----------



## wink

Quote:ubs28 





> An accurate sound is how it sounds true to life. Hence the recording shouldn't alter the original sound, nor the should the chain and equipement  of the listener also alter the recording drastically.
> *Gear:* Chord Hugo


 
 You're missing the point here.
  
 The recording equipment ALWAYS modifies the sound.
  
 Our equipment should recover the sound as recorded to be high fidelity.
  
 Otherwise you would have the odious task of having to alter the sound as recorded for every single CD whether it was well recorded or manufactured in someone's basement, attic, garage, etc, etc, ad hoc, ad nauseum, ad infinitum.


----------



## ubs28

wink said:


> You're missing the point here.
> 
> The recording equipment ALWAYS modifies the sound.
> 
> ...


 

 That is indeed a problem. If you have the equipment that recovers the sound from the CD as accurately as possible, the final sound might not be actually accurate. The guitar for example might actually sound different.


----------



## Argo Duck

And...we don't know what "the original sound off the 'CD'" sounds like. We presumably have to use _a_ headphone or speaker with _an_ amplifier and _a_ DAC. Unless we are sure we have 'perfection' from all parts of the chain, we can't know we're hearing the original (CD) sound.

I suppose we could record and digitise the playback then compare to CD but...we're back to imperfections of recording equipment and microphone signatures as pointed out by wink and ubs28 above.


----------



## wink

Correctamundo........


----------



## 4N6

ubs28 said:


> *An accurate sound is how it sounds true to life*. Hence the recording shouldn't alter the original sound, nor the should the chain and equipement  of the listener shouldn't alter the recording.






argo duck said:


> And...*we don't know what "the original sound off the 'CD'" sounds like*. We presumably have to use _a_ headphone or speaker with _an_ amplifier and _a_ DAC. Unless we are sure we have 'perfection' from all parts of the chain, we can't know we're hearing the original (CD) sound.
> 
> I suppose we could record and digitise the playback then compare to CD but...we're back to imperfections of recording equipment and microphone signatures as pointed out by wink and ubs28 above.




And that is only half of the battle. The other half is personal perception. 

Harry Pearson of _the absolute sound_ magazine thought that the sound of live, unamplified music should be benchmark to which all music reproduction is judged. This sounds good in theory, but even one's perception of what "live, unamplified" music sounds like is skewed to their personal experience. If one heard all concerts at Carnegie Hall and a different person heard the same orchestra outdoors at their community park, both people would have a different perception of what the instruments sound like. If you then asked both of these people to judge the same audio component, my guess is that both would have completely different takes on that components accuracy.

So, with all the vagarities in recording quality, equipment truthfulness to the source (or lack thereof), and human perception, true "accuracy" in music reproduction is elusive at best.

The best solution to this complex problem? Trust your own ears and take everyone else's opinion on how a headphone, amplifier, or source sounds with a grain of salt.


----------



## wink

That's why we have "YMMV".
  
 It saves our skins often.


----------



## shabta

That's why a few of us got together and tried an experiment. There were several parts and I won't reproduce the whole thing. But the house has a large living/dining room in an old french chateau with a Steinway baby grand in it. After a lot of tweaking, we compared the live sound to the recorded on different rigs. The HD800 rig ended up one of the systems that came closest to sounding like the real thing. SR009s did well too. As did a system with Focal 1027 BEs... The speaker rigs had to be tested more from memory, since I can play the piano in the room and then put headphones on and listen. But if you do that with speakers in the same room, you get the recorded ambiance of the room plus the actual ambiance of the room...


----------



## 4N6

shabta said:


> That's why a few of us got together and tried an experiment. There were several parts and I won't reproduce the whole thing. But the house has a large living/dining room in an old french chateau with a Steinway baby grand in it. After a lot of tweaking, we compared the live sound to the recorded on different rigs. The HD800 rig ended up one of the systems that came closest to sounding like the real thing. SR009s did well too. As did a system with Focal 1027 BEs... The speaker rigs had to be tested more from memory, since I can play the piano in the room and then put headphones on and listen. But if you do that with speakers in the same room, you get the recorded ambiance of the room plus the actual ambiance of the room...




Awesome experiment. I wish I could have heard it.

It also says a lot about the quality of the HD800.


----------



## wink

Quote:shabta 





> But if you do that with speakers in the same room, you get the recorded ambiance of the room plus the actual ambiance of the room...


 
 Sonic cross pollination.
  
 The trick would be to try and distinguish the sound coming from the piano from the sound coming from the speakers.
  
 I'll leave that to others...


----------



## Taowolf51

preproman said:


> I would get another pair of headphones


 
  
 I have my doubts that's something you can ever find. I can't name a single headphone that's perfectly balanced without a little help.
  
 Plus, the technicalities are so much more important than FR.


----------



## preproman

taowolf51 said:


> I have my doubts that's something you can ever find. I can't name a single headphone that's perfectly balanced without a little help.
> 
> Plus, the technicalities are so much more important than FR.


 
  
 Well for this particular conversaion I won't skip the HD800s  -  I would prefer the HD800s


----------



## wink

The search for perfection should not disturb your enjoyment of your less-than-perfect gear.


----------



## shabta

wink said:


> The search for perfection should not disturb your enjoyment of your less-than-perfect gear.


 
 Amen!


----------



## Sorrodje

What I personally appreciate is a headphone that can let me hear the differences between recordings. If all recordings sound like the headphone itself, IMO this is an issue.

 The hd800 is maybe the headphone I experienced that sounds the most significantly different with each recording. That's what I call transparency.


----------



## Taowolf51

preproman said:


> Well for this particular conversaion I won't skip the HD800s  -  I would prefer the HD800s



Agreed, the HD800's are my favorite headphones (especially the technicalities), but the frequency response isn't quite ideal. The fact that everyone's ears have a different frequency sensitivity curve makes it basically impossible to create a ideally balanced headphone for everyone, it's why we try to correct for this using amps/DACs/tube rolling/EQ, etc.


----------



## Zoom25

Drivers are still playing catch up with transducers.


----------



## Failed Engineer

zoom25 said:


> I have no idea what I'm going to do for the month and a half trip out of the country next month. Anything that comes close to HD 800 in closed form?


 
  
 The JH13s.  In some ways even better, but they are very similar sounding to me.


----------



## icebear

4n6 said:


> And that is only half of the battle. The other half is personal perception.
> 
> Harry Pearson of _the absolute sound_ magazine thought that the sound of live, unamplified music should be benchmark to which all music reproduction is judged. This sounds good in theory, but even one's perception of what "live, unamplified" music sounds like is skewed to their personal experience. If one heard all concerts at Carnegie Hall and a different person heard the same orchestra outdoors at their community park, both people would have a different perception of what the instruments sound like. *If you then asked both of these people to judge the same audio component, my guess is that both would have completely different takes on that components accuracy.*
> 
> .....


 
  The key is to ask the person who listened at Carnegie Hall to judge recordings from Carnegie Hall and the person who attented the open air concerts to judge the recordings from these live events. A recording can only reflect a particular acoustic event in an actual space and only if you were attending the live event, you can have some clue if the recording matches what you have heard live. Difficult problem here : ususally it will take a long period of time until the recording becomes available, at least if we are talking about commercial recordings.
  


shabta said:


> That's why a few of us got together and tried an experiment. There were several parts and I won't reproduce the whole thing. But the house has a large living/dining room in an old french chateau with a Steinway baby grand in it. After a lot of tweaking, we compared the live sound to the recorded on different rigs. The HD800 rig ended up one of the systems that came closest to sounding like the real thing. SR009s did well too. As did a system with Focal 1027 BEs... The speaker rigs had to be tested more from memory, since I can play the piano in the room and then put headphones on and listen. But if you do that with speakers in the same room, you get the recorded ambiance of the room plus the actual ambiance of the room...


 
  
 Now that's an interesting experiment, unique chance for a direct comparision.
 I am not surprised that the HD800 seems to score well in such a test.


----------



## Maxx134

I say,
 if you prefer sissy headphones that cover up imperfections in your gear the hd800 is not for you..

If you prefer nice opamp base toys like O2 then the hd800 not for you.

When you finnally admit your system is not up to par(!),
and you are finally ready to hear all that is wrong with YOUR SYSTEM,
then Ur ready for the Gawd afull truth the HD800 will deliver..

So if you want to upgrade your system to sound realistic & fantastic,
 instead of a just a personal "sound signature",
then you move to the hd800...
NOT BEFORE,
Or you will have all types of erroneous type of comments which sound to me very naive and like complaining..

Oh well sorry to sound brash but believe me I been there done that and got rid of my hd800 first time simply because I did not understand it was my system, NOT THE HEADPHONES..

IN OTHER words, it does not matter if the can is bright, TO YOU,
What matters is if it reproduces anything harSh,
it is only playing what your other cans are HIDING from you!!..


----------



## agooh

* I listen to hd 800 it was normal nothing draw you to music, I find myself enjoy philps X2 more .*
  
*hd 800 sound normal and itchy,ringing in your ear which will cause loss of hearing ,deadly headphones for hearing .*
*my friend had strong headache cause from his hd 800 .  Doctor tell him to buy speakers and sold his headphones  .*
  
*hd 800 :Soundstage sound big but fake not real so many head fier's thing this is a strong point, but it's weak spot cause you lost a huge amount of detail . that's my point .*
* *
*Note : to Sennheiser,* *I didn't want to repeat myself but something wrong cause headache after listening for couple of hours why is that ? Ring Radiator Driver is the reason behind that pain or what ?*
*I post this before but no answer so let's see here .*


----------



## paulchiu

agooh said:


> * I listen to hd 800 it was normal nothing draw you to music, I find myself enjoy philps X2 more .*
> 
> *hd 800 sound normal and itchy,ringing in your ear which will cause loss of hearing ,deadly headphones for hearing .*
> *my friend had strong headache cause from his hd 800 .  Doctor tell him to buy speakers and sold his headphones  .*
> ...


 
  
 This is very disturbing news.


----------



## sfoclt

I got my estate plan in order exactly so I can continue to enjoy these headphones.


----------



## inseconds99

Looking into purchasing HD 800's with my tax returns this month. I use my headphones to listen to sound, I don't use sound to analyze my headphones. I guess that would mean I am not an audiophile, I am a music and movie lover as well as an avid gamer. I am all about having the best in technology an equipment, whether it be my custom PC, calibrated 65zt60 Panasonic plasma or potentially these headphones. 
  
 I have previously owned the HD 700's and I felt that there price per performance was severely lacking at that time. I found the treble peaks insanely irritating for the genre of music I was listening to. Also, I did not find them as comfortable as everyone made them out to be as my ear faintly touched the pads in a way that caused my ear to feel itchy.
  
 Currently I am using the Soundblaster X7 as my Dac/Amp. Four questions I have before I 100% commit to the purchase;
  
 1. Will the X7 be able to correctly power the 800's. (Some say the ohm spikes would cause an issue from proper amping, others say that's untrue) If not, would an o2/odac and or a Modi2 or Loki and an Asgard 2 do the trick?
 2. Are there fatiguing treble peaks similar to the HD 700's?
 3. Taking into account of diminishing returns would something like the HD600's, AKG 712Pro or another headphone get me 80% the sound of the 800's at a third of the price?
 4. How are these headphones comfort wise, I will be using these headphones everyday for at least 5 hours. They will be used for music, movies and gaming, are they viable all-day comfort, multiple usage headphones if not why?


----------



## MattTCG

inseconds99 said:


> Looking into purchasing HD 800's with my tax returns this month. I use my headphones to listen to sound, I don't use sound to analyze my headphones. I guess that would mean I am not an audiophile, I am a music and movie lover as well as an avid gamer. I am all about having the best in technology an equipment, whether it be my custom PC, calibrated 65zt60 Panasonic plasma or potentially these headphones.
> 
> I have previously owned the HD 700's and I felt that there price per performance was severely lacking at that time. I found the treble peaks insanely irritating for the genre of music I was listening to. Also, I did not find them as comfortable as everyone made them out to be as my ear faintly touched the pads in a way that caused my ear to feel itchy.
> 
> ...


 
  
 IMO...I wouldn't buy the 800 to be used with the x7. Nope, no way. You'd be much better off getting the hd600 and "making the journey" to get to the 800 when you're ready to invest in the amp/dac that bring the 800 to the place that you'd enjoy. 
  
 On the wrong amp/dac the treble can be very harsh. 
  
 The hd800 is super comfortable. I can wear it for hours and have no fatigue. 
  
 GL!!


----------



## Currawong

We're now over 400 edited or deleted posts in this thread, all a result of derailments. Please keep cable and amp discussions OUT of the thread unless directly related to _your_ experience with the HD-800s.


----------



## pearljam50000

Well my HD800's finally arrived 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 But just my luck, i got recommended to buy the Grado Mini adaptor, but i can't find it in any store(called about 8 stores)
 i bought a chinese cheap adapter but it sounds like crap.
 So now i can't use them with my Geek Out at all until they stores will have the Grado adapter again , and who knows how long that will take


----------



## agooh

paulchiu said:


> This is very disturbing news.


 
 it's real news .


----------



## 62ohm

pearljam50000 said:


> Well my HD800's finally arrived
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Finally, congrats mate!


----------



## wink

Congrats.
  
 HD800 need good quality equipment and material to shine.


----------



## pearljam50000

Thank you all! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Yes i need better equipment but i will start with the Geek Out until i can afford to upgrade to something better, so this will have to do for now.


----------



## wink

Don't forget to enjoy the journey....


----------



## johnjen

pearljam50000 said:


> Well my HD800's finally arrived
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Um, while the "chinese cheap adapter" may contribute to the "sounds like crap" it may not be as simple as that.
  
 Time will tell.
  
 JJ


----------



## akhyar

pearljam50000 said:


> Thank you all!
> 
> Yes i need better equipment but i will start with the Geek Out until i can afford to upgrade to something better, so this will have to do for now.




Congrats mate.
Enjoy the HD800 from the GO for the time being until you become really familiar with the sound quality.
No point to jump into expensive amp/DAC configuration until you really sure what type of improvement or changes in the SQ that you want from your HD800 pairing.


----------



## agooh

paulchiu said:


> This is very disturbing news.


 
  
  


pietcux said:


> You sound as if you are planning to sue Sennheiser. Are you serious?


 
 I'm serious , my ears hurts after 2 hours . it's new and I use them for 1 months but the problem is hd 800 leave me with unsatisfying experience. sour sound gives me a headache .


----------



## Priidik

inseconds99 said:


> Currently I am using the Soundblaster X7 as my Dac/Amp. Four questions I have before I 100% commit to the purchase;
> 
> 1. Will the X7 be able to correctly power the 800's. (Some say the ohm spikes would cause an issue from proper amping, others say that's untrue) If not, would an o2/odac and or a Modi2 or Loki and an Asgard 2 do the trick?
> 2. Are there fatiguing treble peaks similar to the HD 700's?
> ...


 
 If you try HD800 and you like it, there is no going back to HD600. The HD800 (unmodded) is superior in everything short of tonality.  
 Not all music lover agree with HD800, so it is better to try them out before commiting to purchase.
  
 The Soundblaster has Class-D amplifier. While not terrible spec wise to my ears Class-D's are dead/very lean sounding.


----------



## agooh

wink said:


> Really.  Read the thread, then get some quality source and amplification.
> 
> The HD800 WILL NOT make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
> 
> It is a stethescope for your system.


 
*I use the best quality source and the best dac/ amp ,so the problem is not from my source ,it's from the drive of hd 800 which cause loss hearing over time .I believe this .*


----------



## Priidik

agooh said:


> *only people with sensitive ears can heard that . *
> *so I think it's over hype headphones with big sound** stage and good detail. nothing fancy only the plastic and viper to make hd 800 looks good.*


 
 Have you considered trying out HD202?
 An acquaintance of mine prefered HD202 to HD800. Seriously.


----------



## Sorrodje

Just don't feed the troll guys


----------



## Priidik

Hm, maybe he isn't trolling after all. Apart from the bold font...
  
 The guy who disliked HD800 and prefered HD202 to em also
 complained about the idle hiss coming out of my studio monitors (10dB). 
  
 Apparently a ppm of population is sensitive to such things.


----------



## Sorrodje

Priidik : Give a look to his post history.


----------



## thecrow

inseconds99 said:


> Looking into purchasing HD 800's with my tax returns this month. I use my headphones to listen to sound, I don't use sound to analyze my headphones. I guess that would mean I am not an audiophile, I am a music and movie lover as well as an avid gamer. I am all about having the best in technology an equipment, whether it be my custom PC, calibrated 65zt60 Panasonic plasma or potentially these headphones.
> 
> I have previously owned the HD 700's and I felt that there price per performance was severely lacking at that time. I found the treble peaks insanely irritating for the genre of music I was listening to. Also, I did not find them as comfortable as everyone made them out to be as my ear faintly touched the pads in a way that caused my ear to feel itchy.
> 
> ...




This might not directly answer your questions but.....
After looking at your music prefs in your profile I'm not so sure if the hd800s would be suited (to edm)

I have read/seen reviews that suggest the hd700s are suited for edm (when comparing to hd800s) but you did not find much value there. 

I auditioned the hd600s one arvo for about 45 mins and I thought they were great value. Very easy listening, no sharpness at all but (relatively) nice and clear and open. Like settling in to an old favourite couch. Not sure about edm, as I don't listen too much, fine for tick and hip hop. 

Straight after that I heard the he560s and I was blown away with the timbre and the lush upper mids and highs and firm and clear bottom end. 

I was set to buy those, after another session of demoing them until I heard the hd800s, which also wowed me. I'd be happy with both. (I am happy with the hd800s).

The soundstage of the hd800s is fantastic. I do enjoy the mids and highs as that is a turn on for me in sound profiles. I don't find them fatiguing but I can understand those who do. 

However in me choosing between the hd800s and he560s my difficult decision was simply between choosing the "pure enjoyment" of the he560s v the "analytical" offerings of the hd800s. 

Im not saying the he560s would suit you but I do recommend as others would say to audition the hd800 and hd600 before seeing if either fit your musical preferences. Particularly if you are looking for headphones to purely enjoy rather than to analyse with (loosely speaking). 

Perhaps the fostex th900 might suit at this price point? I believe, from more experienced auditioned/owners of these they can kick some butt. 
Perhaps the new fidelio x2, at a mid fi price point, if you've enjoyed your x1s. 

If you want something with nice bottom end (not too forced) perhaps the shure srh1540s might be worth looking at a mid price point - they are nice rounded numbers but do have a closed sound. But they bring me back to the value of the hd600s IF they suit. 

Good luck with your decisions - always a tricky one until you demo some. 

Peter t


----------



## agooh

priidik said:


> Have you considered trying out HD202?
> An acquaintance of mine prefered HD202 to HD800. Seriously.


 
*I prefer Philips X2 over Hd 800 100 % by huge margin, of course bass and smooth treble make X2 better than hd 800 . can I say more yes the price too.*


----------



## agooh

sorrodje said:


> Priidik : Give a look to his post history.


 
 It's fact that you can't denied it
 My posts are true . and I have hd800 and fostex th900 that's make them à réal statement not fake like others .


----------



## 62ohm

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/PhilipsFidelioX2.pdf 
  
 Huge 10Hz-60Hz bass roll-off, massive 9kHz treble peak, rolled off 30Hz square wave, massive bass distortion and best of all, multiple 300Hz square wave overshoots which according to innerfidelity, implies ringing.
  
 Objectively speaking, HD800 have no 'ringing'. If you believe you heard some sort of ringing, then I guess you have a defective pair.


----------



## Mortalcoil

agooh said:


> *I prefer Philips X2 over Hd 800 100 % by huge margin, of course bass and smooth treble make X2 better than hd 800 . can I say more yes the price too.*


 

  A troll of trolls.  Same ridiculous statements and conclusions on the TH-900 thread.


----------



## preproman

And in the Abyss thread


----------



## pearljam50000

Lol one star


----------



## wink

How did it score 1 star?  Musta been a sympathy vote.......


----------



## agooh

It's about enjoying my music and hd800 failed to do that for me at least , so I'm not sorry for that 1 star. Hope they can add more bass and fix the harsh treble . still great headphones for who seek detail and big sound stage but your ears will suffer .


----------



## nigeljames

I have never found the HD800's to have harsh treble. Even on a recording that is known to have harsh treble, invarably the T1's sound harsher.


----------



## inseconds99

thecrow said:


> This might not directly answer your questions but.....
> After looking at your music prefs in your profile I'm not so sure if the hd800s would be suited (to edm)
> 
> I have read/seen reviews that suggest the hd700s are suited for edm (when comparing to hd800s) but you did not find much value there.
> ...




Thank your for your informed response, I have other headphones and will own headphones in the future that will fill my edm and hip hop needs. As I grow older my taste in music is changing and my horizons are broadening. I have recently come into liking bands like the who, the Beatles, Metallica, pearl jam, Floyd, queen, Springsteen and many more. The headphones I currently own and have owned don't seem to do well with these artists and artists similar.

That is why I am trying to have a wide range of headphones to suit my wider range in tastes, also I would be willing to buy better dac/amps in the future as the headphone will be the first step. As it says in my profile I am an I.T. professional and have a huge liking for advanced technology and equipment of all kinds. I have read through most of the posts on this forum and have gotten much information from it. The reason for this post was to have the few direct questions I had left possibly be answered.

Joe


----------



## skeptic

I evidently missed all the excitement yesterday, but from the emails I received, my thanks to those of you who appreciated my post about op amps, negative feedback and why amps like the o2 may or may not sound good to different hd800 listeners, depending on their sensitivities to different orders and sorts of distortions.  
  
 It is difficult to understand why my post was moderated out of existence while, for example, agooh's "contributions" have been preserved in this thread and others.  As a long term hd800 owner, O2 builder and one of a small handful who has taken the time and energy to populate and implement the agdr booster mod, to try and address some of the O2's shortcomings (e.g. extremely low slew rate), do I somehow fail to satisfy HF's rigorous metrics for who is or is not allowed to post on how these items sound together and why that might be?  
  
 To be clear, in the realm of the subjective, while I like my O2 fairly well with some headphones (which I either know or suspect have very high freq. roll off that minimizes the impact of higher order distortions), it is simply awful with hd800's to my ears (with or without the agdr mod, which does slightly improve the amp).  James, and possibly a few others, disagree and love the pairing.  That is just fine.  What is not fine, and what I think must be addressed in scientific rather than merely subjective terms, are oversimplified claims that the O2 is the last word on accuracy and transparency.  Many (perhaps most?) of us who own the amp, among others, do not hear it that way, and the fascinating question is why.  This was the context for my prior post regarding the o2 and my reference to the Pass article - https://passlabs.com/articles/audio-distortion-and-feedback
  


> Which is precisely the reason so many folks dislike it. Op amps require negative feedback to run in a linear mode, i.e. as an audio amp. As explained in detail in the pass labs article I linked severally pages back, this topology reduces overall thd and lowers output impedance but gives rise to added disproportionate high order distortion and other undesireable complex nonlinear distortion products.
> 
> If you have any treble sensitivities or are focused on natural timbre, these may well sound far worse to you than higher average thd nonfeedback designs. This is why claims of any objective superiority or transparency associated with the o2 are so misleading and absurd.


 
      
 Currawong was actually the one who first raised my attention to the existence of transient intermodulation distortion caused by global feedback in another headphone thread.  I'd ask that we be allowed to go down the same road here since I believe striving to understand our headphone setups is a big part of truly appreciating them.


----------



## Sorrodje

skeptic said:


> It is difficult to understand why my post was moderated out of existence while, for example, agooh's "contributions" have been preserved in this thread and others.  As a long term hd800 owner, O2 builder and one of a small handful who has taken the time and energy to populate and implement the agdr booster mod, to try and address some of the O2's shortcomings (e.g. extremely low slew rate), do I somehow fail to satisfy HF's rigorous metrics for who is or is not allowed to post on how these items sound together and why that might be?


 
  
  
 Definitely agreed !


----------



## agooh

skeptic said:


> I evidently missed all the excitement yesterday, but from the emails I received, my thanks to those of you who appreciated my post about op amps, negative feedback and why amps like the o2 may or may not sound good to different hd800 listeners, depending on their sensitivities to different orders and sorts of distortions.
> 
> It is difficult to understand why my post was moderated out of existence while, for example, agooh's "contributions" have been preserved in this thread and others.  As a long term hd800 owner, O2 builder and one of a small handful who has taken the time and energy to populate and implement the agdr booster mod, to try and address some of the O2's shortcomings (e.g. extremely low slew rate), do I somehow fail to satisfy HF's rigorous metrics for who is or is not allowed to post on how these items sound together and why that might be?
> 
> ...


 
  
  


62ohm said:


> http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/PhilipsFidelioX2.pdf
> 
> Huge 10Hz-60Hz bass roll-off, massive 9kHz treble peak, rolled off 30Hz square wave, massive bass distortion and best of all, multiple 300Hz square wave overshoots which according to innerfidelity, implies ringing.
> 
> Objectively speaking, HD800 have no 'ringing'. If you believe you heard some sort of ringing, then I guess you have a defective pair.


 
 Sometimes you have to believe your ears rather than measurements . I'm sure if we do blind test, philips X2 will beat hd 800 for it's has fun sound.


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> Well my HD800's finally arrived
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  
 Congrats bro!


----------



## Sorrodje

zoom25 said:


> Congrats bro!


----------



## pearljam50000

Thank you friends very much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 You really moved me believe it or not...


----------



## inseconds99

agooh said:


> Sometimes you have to believe your ears rather than measurements . I'm sure if we do blind test, philips X2 will beat hd 800 for it's has fun sound.




That's an interesting quote and it might actually be true, I want the hd 800's for 3 reasons; 

1. I am a technology junkie and want the best of everything.
2. I am looking for a large, very comfortable. (This is the most important as evey hewdphone I've owned has caused my ears to heat up, sweat or become irritates.)
3. I want a natural and detailed headphone. I want to be able to hear the music the way it was ment to be listened to. Similar to my calibrated Panasonic 65zt60 that is nearly pixel perfect in color representation and I view video the way it was ment to be viewed without crushed blacks, color errors or too much contrast.

I am not sure if the hd 800's meet this criteria as I don't own them yet, but this is my goal. I want to be comfortable, so comfortable I can wear them all day and hear everything I'm listening to without coloration. I want to enjoy the recording as the producer or artist intended.


----------



## MrBeetroot

In comparison to the Beyerdynamic DT150 the Sennheiser HD800 is way behind in representation quality.
 The HD800 adds a significant amount of colour and retains a stage that is far from what could be described as a flat response. 
 The price point of these headphones is rather unjustified also.
 Guess it's all about the marketing with this model.
 Not trolling, just my 2 cents


----------



## Maxx134

The point I didnt get to make in my deleted post,
is how the hd800 can make you see how every piece of equipment affects the sound from dac to amp to headohone cable(!),
And you can learn with these transparent headphone how to pick things out and have a prefference for components...

That is finnally why I chose to go tube amp and best dac I can find.

And with the hd800 you will realize the limits of opamp based equipment And why discrete and tube circuits are preferred over opamp, from a listening perspective,
not a "on paper" proof crap.
Reality bites when not all we hear can be correctly described on paper.


----------



## Argo Duck

I briefly auditioned an HD 800 two months ago - for comparison I own the LCD-3F, LCD2r1, Beyer T1 and Grado RS1 - and was impressed enough to order a pair. It arrived last week. Hence, my subscription to this thread.

I now regret it :rolleyes:

My read: owners and potential owners come here for pointers to the HD 800's character, strengths and weaknesses. Ultimately, potential owners can only decide whether it's the or an hp for them _by listening for themselves_. Posts from those who have been disappointed by their _own, personal_ listening experiences have no value to this when they fail to offer in-depth analysis of these experiences together with reference points and information about preferences that might help others understand the 'problem'.

And statements describing as 'fakes' or suckers for marketing those who do enjoy this headphone or any other audio gear are way out of line IMHO.


----------



## kapanak

62ohm said:


> "Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." -Aldous Huxley
> 
> Disregarding the measurements doesn't make them go away. The fact to the matter is, the HD800 is one of the best measuring headphone available while the Philips X2 simply measures like crap.




X2 is a coloured, bass tilting, leaned back and dark headphones, much like the HD650. It is also priced like that, and yes it does sound more "fun". But as you say, it doesn't change the fact that HD800 is a far superior sounding headphones in all technical aspects.


----------



## Sorrodje

> I briefly auditioned an HD 800 two months ago - for comparison I own the LCD-3F, LCD2r1, Beyer T1 and Grado RS1 - and was impressed enough to order a pair. It arrived last week. Hence, my subscription to this thread.
> 
> I now regret it
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey Welcome hear Aidee 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What do You regret ? Having bought the HD800 or Subscribed to this thread ?


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks - oops, I meant subscribing to this thread!
Maybe I joined at a bad moment.

Definitely don't regret the HD 800.

Thanks again for the welcome


----------



## kapanak

argo duck said:


> Thanks - oops, I meant subscribing to this thread!
> Maybe I joined at a bad moment.
> 
> Definitely don't regret the HD 800.
> ...




Hahaha I was also gonna ask xD But I'm glad you are liking the HD800. 

And yes, this thread is toxic.


----------



## pearljam50000

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UwZkfr4Zjg
  
 Found this on youtube, this girls sings covers of songs, she has something like 20 videos, all of them show her singing while wearing the HD800!
 She has a good taste in music( It's a Radiohead cover) and in headphones, but she can't really sing lol.


----------



## paulchiu

mrbeetroot said:


> In comparison to the Beyerdynamic DT150 the Sennheiser HD800 is way behind in representation quality.
> The HD800 adds a significant amount of colour and retains a stage that is far from what could be described as a flat response.
> The price point of these headphones is rather unjustified also.
> Guess it's all about the marketing with this model.
> Not trolling, just my 2 cents


 
  
 Those Beyer DT150 are musician favorites.  Not really for their audiophile quality but for isolation as well as good monitors while producing their recordings.  They are marketed all the time and easily bought from musicians websites for under $200.  If you like these, you save yourself a lot of money.
 The HD800 is not for everybody.


----------



## 4N6

62ohm said:


> "Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." -Aldous Huxley
> 
> Disregarding the measurements doesn't make them go away. The fact to the matter is, the HD800 is one of the best measuring headphone available while the Philips X2 simply measures like crap.




Reminds me of another great quote...

"If it measures like crap yet sounds good, then it is good. If it measures well yet sounds like crap, then it is crap and you are measuring the wrong thing."


----------



## TonyNewman

I'll throw my 2 cents into the ring on the HD800.
  
 Unmodded and/or with an amp that is neutral/bright it is brutal to my ears.
  
 Mod the thing, pair it with a warmish + high end amp, and this headphone scales like crazy into a beast that competes with my modded HE6 for my headfi time.
  
 The Vega DAC feeding a Simaudio 430HA, or WA5, makes the HD800 sing like an angel.


----------



## pietcux

I always wonder, either what kind of music some people listen to or how loud they listen, to call a can like the HD800 brutally bright or state that they could not stand listening to it for more than a few seconds. I don't own the HD800 yet, but I did listen to it for a longer period. I was just fine in all regards, but the price. I listened to it with Brian Bromberg Wood 2 acoustical Jazz btw. from a decent Lehmann amp and a very decent Denon CD player.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

tonynewman said:


> I'll throw my 2 cents into the ring on the HD800.
> 
> Unmodded and/or with an amp that is neutral/bright it is brutal to my ears.
> 
> ...



The more headphones I really listen to, the more I appreciate my Sennheiser HD 800 headphones with HDVD 800 amp and balanced cable. I LOVE Grados, to the point of buying one of each model (I have them all, plus several vintage - total of 12). They all give you a transparency not found in the Sennheiser, but they have very little bass extension and a sound stage that improves as you go up their line but does not achieve that of the Sennheiser HD 800. I just returned from comparing the HiFiMAN HE-500, HE-560, and HE-400i. The HE-560 came the closest to the HD 800, but there is daylight between them (and a factor of nearly 2 in price difference!). I've listened to the HiFiMAN HE-6 with the top-of-the-line EF-6 amp, the Abyss headphone, and many Audeze LCDs. None achieve the combination of bass, soundstage, treble detail, and comfort of the HD 800. 

I hear concerns about fatiguing treble and weak bass. I have to conclude that these are from cases using less--than-ideal amps. I have not noticed these concerns from folks using the Sennheiser HDVD 800 or HDVA 600 amps. I am sure that there are other amps that are even better, though I don't know what they are. 

We sometimes hear concern that the design of the HD 800 is over 6 years old and a new flagship is due or is coming. Maybe, but it is to me equally likely that Senneheiser has come close to the end state of headphone / amp combination design, and only minor tweaks remain for others.

Wonder what portable amp caresses the HD 800 as well as the HDVD 800. Perhaps the HiFi M8? Others? Chord Hugo? To me, a portable amp is the only major item left.


----------



## inseconds99

tonynewman said:


> I'll throw my 2 cents into the ring on the HD800.
> 
> Unmodded and/or with an amp that is neutral/bright it is brutal to my ears.
> 
> ...



Never understood the point of buying a headphone that is analytical and then going out and coloring the sound, then make it sound like other headphones that are already colored. Why not have a clean amp/dac that doesn't color the sound and a hear the headphone the way it was ment to be heard. If you're going to color the sound then buy a headphone that is colored and save money no?


----------



## kapanak

inseconds99 said:


> Never understood the point of buying a headphone that are analytical and then going out and coloring the sound the make it sound like other headphones that are already colored. Why not have a clean amp/dac that doesn't color the sound and a hear the headphone the way it was ment to be heard. If you're going to color the sound then buy a headphone that is colored and save money no?




This reminds me of photography forums, where there are two camps: The purist out of camera camp vs. The post processing is okay camp.


----------



## drez

Anax mod


----------



## johnjen

agooh said:


> *I use the best quality source and the best dac/ amp ,so the problem is not from my source ,it's from the drive of hd 800 which cause loss hearing over time .I believe this .*


 
 Then turn the volume down.
 Any headphone can cause hearing damage if its turned up to loud.
  
 As for "*the best quality source and the best dac/ amp"*
 this is meaningless without specifics, and maybe meaningless regardless, if the setup is the problem.
  
 So sell the 800's and get something that is better.
  
 That should be easy to do, what with the 800's popularity.
  
 JJ


----------



## Currawong

http://head-fi.org/a/posting-guidelines
  


> *DON'T reply If someone makes an off-topic, rude or otherwise inappropriate comment, or a post appears to be trolling or spam.* Report it by clicking on the red flag and filling in the box explaining what the problem is and let the moderators take care of it. *If something is inappropriate or rude, what is the point of giving it more attention by replying to it and/or quoting it?!?* _If nobody replies to or comments on a trolling or abusive post 100% of the time the person goes away!_


----------



## TonyNewman

inseconds99 said:


> Never understood the point of buying a headphone that are analytical and then going out and coloring the sound the make it sound like other headphones that are already colored. Why not have a clean amp/dac that doesn't color the sound and a hear the headphone the way it was ment to be heard. If you're going to color the sound then buy a headphone that is colored and save money no?


 
  
 Because I like the comfort and sound of the HD800, except for the treble. The mod fixes the treble problem and leaves me with a comfortable + high performance headphone.


----------



## Taowolf51

inseconds99 said:


> Never understood the point of buying a headphone that are analytical and then going out and coloring the sound the make it sound like other headphones that are already colored. Why not have a clean amp/dac that doesn't color the sound and a hear the headphone the way it was ment to be heard. If you're going to color the sound then buy a headphone that is colored and save money no?


 
  
 Quote:


tonynewman said:


> Because I like the comfort and sound of the HD800, except for the treble. The mod fixes the treble problem and leaves me with a comfortable + high performance headphone.


 
  
 Not to mention that there's a lot more than just frequency response. Is there a headphone out there that has the detail of the HD800? The soundstage? The comfort? All 3?
 No, there isn't. The reason people don't go out and get a headphone that's like a "colored" HD800 is because it doesn't exist.
  
 We shouldn't be treating the HD800 as though it's the absolute last word on transparency. It's extremely good in that respect but it absolutely can be made better. Looking at the FR alone, it should have more linear subbass and shouldn't have the 6k spike to start.
  
  
 Also, why does anyone care what someone else is listening to or doing with the gear they own? No one is holding anyone down and forcing them to listen to an HD800 run on a tube amp or a high feedback O2. Personal enjoyment trumps all, and if someone is happy with something, why hate them for it?
  
  
 This also brings up another point. How is the HD800 "supposed to be heard"? Is it with a 0 ohm amp so that the headphone FR is modified as little as possible? Is it with the 5 Ohm dark sounding Lehmann BCL that the headphones were first demoed with? Or is with the 16+ ohm HDVD800 that were designed to be used with the HD800 by Sennheiser? Does it even matter?


----------



## ruthieandjohn

taowolf51 said:


> This also brings up another point. How is the HD800 "supposed to be heard"? Is it with a 0 ohm amp so that the headphone FR is modified as little as possible? Is it with the 5 Ohm dark sounding Lehmann BCL that the headphones were first demoed with? Or is with the 16+ ohm HDVD800 that were designed to be used with the HD800 by Sennheiser? Does it even matter?


 
 Well, of COURSE the HD 800 is Supposed To Be Heard with a matching amp!
  
 For example, here is my HD 800 and matching amp, the HDVD 800:
  

  
 And as you can see, I went one better and made sure I was also using a matching cable!
  
  
 Oh, and for mobile listening, I also have a Matching Car:
  

  
  
 You're welcome!


----------



## Mr Rick

ruthieandjohn said:


> Well, of COURSE the HD 800 is Supposed To Be Heard with a matching amp!
> 
> For example, here is my HD 800 and matching amp, the HDVD 800:
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, but does it sound better that way??


----------



## ruthieandjohn

mr rick said:


> Yes, but does it sound better that way??


 

 Of COURSE!  Physics teaches us that RED is the fastest color for a car (learned treatise proving this is here:  http://www.fiat500owners.com/forum/16-off-topic-discussion/9089-red-fastest-color-fiats-physics-teaches-us-why.html#post134638
  
 And what is sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander... hence, red is not only the fastest color for a car, but the fastest color for a headphone!
  
 Q.E.D.!


----------



## inseconds99

taowolf51 said:


> Not to mention that there's a lot more than just frequency response. Is there a headphone out there that has the detail of the HD800? The soundstage? The comfort? All 3?
> No, there isn't. The reason people don't go out and get a headphone that's like a "colored" HD800 is because it doesn't exist.
> 
> We shouldn't be treating the HD800 as though it's the absolute last word on transparency. It's extremely good in that respect but it absolutely can be made better. Looking at the FR alone, it should have more linear subbass and shouldn't have the 6k spike to start.
> ...




Touché, I never thought about it in that light. That does indeed make sense. I guess sound is much more subjective then say video, calman chats are pretty straight forward and either the color is right or wrong.


----------



## MickeyVee

All this talk about what the HD800 should sound like and what amp, OpAmps, Tubes, SS Discrete, DAC Chips is all irrelevant.  Really now, it's how the HD800 sounds to you.  Although, personally I wouldn't even consider an O2, really, who gives frack? The HD800 is still one of be best headphones on the market and how you enjoy it is totally up to you. Who are we to judge each others preferences? We can make recommendations based on our own experiences and preferences.
  
 Here's my HD800 journey in pictures and to be honest, each system has its merits and I finally settled on the McIntosh to drive my HD800. Are any of them wrong? No. Are any of the perfect? No.  I still have the Vali (with the AD Dragonfly v1.2) and Naim DAC-V1. DAC/AMP combos ranging from under $300 to over $5K Canadian.  Enjoy them all.  No right or wrong. The HD800 still sound like the HD800 +/- various based on DAC/AMP/Source.  The moral of the story, just enjoy the HD800. If you don't, move on.
 /ENDRANT


----------



## TonyNewman

mickeyvee said:


> All this talk about what the HD800 should sound like and what amp, OpAmps, Tubes, SS Discrete, DAC Chips is all irrelevant.  Really now, it's how the HD800 sounds to you.  Although, personally I wouldn't even consider an O2, really, who gives frack? The HD800 is still one of be best headphones on the market and how you enjoy it is totally up to you. Who are we to judge each others preferences? We can make recommendations based on our own experiences and preferences.
> ...


 
   
+1.

  
 I know what works for me (modded HD800 + Vega + 430HA or WA5). That might, or might not, work for someone else.


----------



## pearljam50000

I can only afford the Vali so you made me feel good.
Thanks ^_^


mickeyvee said:


> All this talk about what the HD800 should sound like and what amp, OpAmps, Tubes, SS Discrete, DAC Chips is all irrelevant.  Really now, it's how the HD800 sounds to you.  Although, personally I wouldn't even consider an O2, really, who gives frack? The HD800 is still one of be best headphones on the market and how you enjoy it is totally up to you. Who are we to judge each others preferences? We can make recommendations based on our own experiences and preferences.
> 
> Here's my HD800 journey in pictures and to be honest, each system has its merits and I finally settled on the McIntosh to drive my HD800. Are any of them wrong? No. Are any of the perfect? No.  I still have the Vali (with the AD Dragonfly v1.2) and Naim DAC-V1. DAC/AMP combos ranging from under $300 to over $5K Canadian.  Enjoy them all.  No right or wrong. The HD800 still sound like the HD800 +/- various based on DAC/AMP/Source.  The moral of the story, just enjoy the HD800. If you don't, move on.
> /ENDRANT


----------



## James-uk

inseconds99 said:


> tonynewman said:
> 
> 
> > I'll throw my 2 cents into the ring on the HD800.
> ...




Couldn't agree more. I have an amp / dac that is completely transparent (benchmark dac1 usb). I never need to worry about the amp or dac anymore to drive any non electrostatic headphone . I've even got an end game dac for the day I finally get an electrostatic to add to the collection. My money can go toward the most important thing in this hobby, the headphones themselves !! And the more the merrier! they will all be complimentary though because I'm yet to be convinced that anything out there is a hands Down HD800 upgrade.
Edit: I once fell into the trap of thinking the Hd800 would sound better with a 'coloured/ synegised' amp so I brought the HDVD800. It is an excellent amp but it sounded the same as the benchmark dac1 yet I couldn't run all possible future headphones or my iems from it due to its 43 ohm output impedance.


----------



## pearljam50000

Humm so you like the HD800 with the DAC1 as DAC/amp?
Because some people claim that the DAC1 sounds exactly like an O2+ODAC and they hate it with the HD800.


james-uk said:


> Couldn't agree more. I have an amp / dac that is completely transparent (benchmark dac1 usb). I never need to worry about the amp or dac anymore to drive any non electrostatic headphone . I've even got an end game dac for the day I finally get an electrostatic to add to the collection. My money can go toward the most important thing in this hobby, the headphones themselves !! And the more the merrier! they will all be complimentary though because I'm yet to be convinced that anything out there is a hands Down HD800 upgrade.
> Edit: I once fell into the trap of thinking the Hd800 would sound better with a 'coloured/ synegised' amp so I brought the HDVD800. It is an excellent amp but it sounded the same as the benchmark dac1 yet I couldn't run all possible future headphones or my iems from it due to its 43 ohm output impedance.


----------



## 62ohm

I also have the DAC1 and HDVA 600 and to me, amp-wise they sound nothing like one and another. YMMV, but IMO HD800 sounds simply harsh driven by the DAC1.


----------



## James-uk

62ohm said:


> I also have the DAC1 and HDVA 600 and to me, amp-wise they sound nothing like one and another. YMMV, but IMO HD800 sounds simply harsh driven by the DAC1.




i thought they sounded different too but I decided to take my bias out of the equation and got the mrs to switch them up with back turned and access to digital volume only. Not exactly the most controlled test and it was flawed obviously ( volume matching to name one fault) but I couldn't confidently say which was Which trying several tracks . It was an eye opener to me so I soon sold the hdvd800! Sighted I swore the hdvd800 sounded better with hd800 !


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Interesting. Experiencing different perceptions under different experimental conditions (sighted versus unsighted), you dispensed with the one that "sounded better".

Did you find sighted listening no longer worked to enhance your experience?


----------



## James-uk

I honestly thought the difference was pretty big, I even went balanced and thought that made even more of a difference. Then when I was unable to see which on I was listening to that difference became very hard to detect . It was a similar experience when I first did ABX tests with flac vs 256 aac. I had convinced a friend that I could definitely hear lossless vs lossy and I stepped up to the challenge because it was so obvious ...... I failed miserably using an ABX software for Mac . The bottom line is , and of course to keep it on topic , is my experience with the hd800 is that it's not as picky with amps as many here suggest. Members like pearl jam have been scared off from owning hd800 because they have been led to belive they need an uber expensive amp to make it worth owning , and as a result they either don't buy them or worry to much to enjoy them with their equipment . I Was the same and I spent a lot of money trying to get the most out of the hd800 to then realise in the end it didn't take that much at all. I want others to not make the same mistakes I made and to just enjoy these awesome cans!


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Hmm, yes fair enough.

My point - some past research work in which I was involved was based on manipulating conditions under which humans perceive and behave - is that conditions that positively enhance one's experience are a 'real' gain. Indeed, one may _perform_ better or worse due to these conditions.

But I see _your_ point which is that the enhancing conditions need not be "uber expensive"!


----------



## shabta

james-uk said:


> I honestly thought the difference was pretty big, I even went balanced and thought that made even more of a difference. Then when I was unable to see which on I was listening to that difference became very hard to detect . It was a similar experience when I first did ABX tests with flac vs 256 aac. I had convinced a friend that I could definitely hear lossless vs lossy and I stepped up to the challenge because it was so obvious ...... I failed miserably using an ABX software for Mac . The bottom line is , and of course to keep it on topic , is my experience with the hd800 is that it's not as picky with amps as many here suggest. Members like pearl jam have been scared off from owning hd800 because they have been led to belive they need an uber expensive amp to make it worth owning , and as a result they either don't buy them or worry to much to enjoy them with their equipment . I Was the same and I spent a lot of money trying to get the most out of the hd800 to then realise in the end it didn't take that much at all. I want others to not make the same mistakes I made and to just enjoy these awesome cans!


 
 I am someone that in blind abx testing can usually tell flac from 320 mp3 and Hi-res from ordinary flac.  I do hear differences between amps, even when I can't see the amp. But, the very nature of explaining those differences in words makes it sound like the differences are much bigger than they actually are. And more to the point, on many of the differences, as long as you aren't doing a direct a/b, you won't care that much. That is definitely true for a well mastered redbook CD vs. the Hi-res version. You might be able to tell a difference, but if you just hear one or the other on its own (without knowing which it is), you almost for sure won't be thinking "thank goodness I am listening the superior hi-res version".
  
 As long as you have an amp that can properly drive the HD800, the differences between amps are audible but narrow, compared to differences between headphones. Therefore, I usually recommend getting the best headphone you can afford/like and if necessary use the minimum acceptable ( and usually relatively inexpensive) amp/dac. That will make a much huger difference than getting a fab dac or amp and a mediocre headphone. It seems that this is not a majority opinion here... so YMMV


----------



## thomascrown

pearljam50000 said:


> I can only afford the Vali so you made me feel good.
> Thanks ^_^


 
 I owned the Vali when I had my hd650 and imo you'll have plenty of satisfactions with that amp.


----------



## Priidik

> Members like pearl jam have been scared off from owning hd800 because they have been led to belive they need an uber expensive amp to make it worth owning , and as a result they either don't buy them or worry to much to enjoy them with their equipment . I Was the same and I spent a lot of money trying to get the most out of the hd800 to then realise in the end it didn't take that much at all. I want others to not make the same mistakes I made and to just enjoy these awesome cans!


 
 To each their own.
 I would have simply saved $$ if somone could have told me sooner that i need an exeptional amp and equally exeptional dac to get most out of HD800.
 I quess the trip is worth something too.
  
 Understandably people seek different strengths of this phone, so for some maybe an O2 or a Lehmann BCL is end of the road. 
 I am much more needy than i first anticipated.


----------



## shabta

priidik said:


> To each their own.
> I would have simply saved $$ if somone could have told me sooner that i need an exeptional amp and equally exeptional dac to get most out of HD800.
> I quess the trip is worth something too.
> 
> ...


 
 Well the non feedback/opamp Lehmann BCL will be a lot closer to nirvana than the O2.


----------



## Sorrodje

priidik said:


> Understandably people seek different strengths of this phone, so for some maybe an O2 or a Lehmann BCL is end of the road.
> I am much more needy than i first anticipated.


 
  
  
 As long as nobody claims to hold the truth and anyone alse is wrong, it's fine for me. 
  
 I personaly found that op-amp based & Solid state last products from Jan Meier  (Corda Jazz , Classic and DACCORD) are really great even with the HD800.  I know the Hype go towards R2R DAC , Discrete design and Tubes but I still love what Jan Meier Offers.
  
 I wouldn't let go my full discrete R2R dac and my DNA amp though .


----------



## pearljam50000

Finally i got the Grado mini adaptor from the internet it should be here in the next two weeks. waiting is so hard
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Anyways, i was thinking maybe i i made a mistake because the Sennheiser adapter uses the same type of cable  as their headphones, and Grado uses the same cable they use in their headphones, and is different from the Sennheiser cable(not sure how)
 How big is difference between them  regarding the sound quality?
 I hope the Grado adaptor won't change the sound too much


----------



## Sorrodje

No difference at all. Don't worry about that.


----------



## johnjen

pearljam50000 said:


> Finally i got the Grado mini adaptor from the internet it should be here in the next two weeks. waiting is so hard
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That is a non-issue at this point.
  
 JJ


----------



## bearFNF

pearljam50000 said:


> Finally i got the Grado mini adaptor from the internet it should be here in the next two weeks. waiting is so hard
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sound wise I would not worry.
 I had a fit issue, though. see picture.


----------



## RUMAY408

sorrodje said:


> As long as nobody claims to hold the truth and anyone alse is wrong, it's fine for me.
> 
> I personaly found that op-amp based & Solid state last products from Jan Meier  (Corda Jazz , Classic and DACCORD) are really great even with the HD800.  I know the Hype go towards R2R DAC , Discrete design and Tubes but I still love what Jan Meier Offers.
> 
> I wouldn't let go my full discrete R2R dac and my DNA amp though .


 

 The Meier stack may be the "best bang for the buck" solid state system for the HD800 that I have heard, I'm off to another meet next week so plenty more AMP/DAC combo's to try.
 The Valhalla 2/Bifrost is solid and depending on the tube quality in the Valhalla a nice choice for a lower cost HD800 AMP/DAC . 
  
 I love the HD800 but some music just works better with this HP and acoustic might be the sweet spot.


----------



## Alexalder

I'm going to try them on saturday with my equipment for the first time, hype


----------



## knowhatimean

rumay408 said:


> The Meier stack may be the "best bang for the buck" solid state system for the HD800 that I have heard, I'm off to another meet next week so plenty more AMP/DAC combo's to try.
> The Valhalla 2/Bifrost is solid and depending on the tube quality in the Valhalla a nice choice for a lower cost HD800 AMP/DAC .
> 
> I love the HD800 but some music just works better with this HP and acoustic might be the sweet spot.


 
 I have no doubt whatsoever that "Acoustic" music of any kind absolutely is the sweet spot for HD800. Depending on how good a job was done capturing the acoustic elements of the recording, the "sky's the limit" on how great this music can sound on these phones.I spend less then a very low % of my listening time listening to any non-acoustic music. Orchestral music can be just exceptional sounding on them !
  
 Many years ago I had a Meier Stepdance 2 that I used that I just loved ! The Corda Classic is one of the few non-balanced in amps that I'm seriously interested in given how impressed I was with that portable amp I had . I keep saying I want to go to a balanced amp so that I can use my Metrum Hex DAC's balanced outs, but truthfully, I've never felt shortchanged running the Hex single ended.
  
 What is the Classic's going price for the U.S. ? Anyone have any feelings about the SPL Phonitor mini use with the HD800 ?


----------



## shabta

I am still happy with my StageDAC. But I am interested to try a r2r ladder DAC with my setup. Maybe if a used metrum octave mkii comes up...


----------



## skeptic

shabta said:


> Well the non feedback/opamp Lehmann BCL...


 
  
 I don't think this is possible.  As I understand it, op amps must be fed feedback in order to operate as audio amps/in a linear mode.  Different op amp based amps certainly can sound very different from one another.  E.g., you would never confuse the sound of an iphone vs. mini3 vs. o2 - which all have very different signatures.  But they all inherently require negative feedback, as do all other portable and op amp based amplifiers.


----------



## Sorrodje

knowhatimean said:


> I have no doubt whatsoever that "Acoustic" music of any kind absolutely is the sweet spot for HD800. Depending on how good a job was done capturing the acoustic elements of the recording, the "sky's the limit" on how great this music can sound on these phones.I spend less then a very low % of my listening time listening to any non-acoustic music. Orchestral music can be just exceptional sounding on them !


 
  
 That's my opinion too.


----------



## Argo Duck

I still have the Meier Classic in my stable of amps - it works very well with the Audez'e LCD 3F for example.

Once I'm past the 'honeymoon' period with the HD 800 I'll try to offer some useful impressions of the 800/Classic. ATM, a Decware CSP2 tube amp (tuned neutral) is doing the HD 800 honors.

Edit: Just to add Jan Meier himself described the Classic as "slightly warmer" than his previous flagship the Concerto amp. The Concerto was indeed - TME - a neutral but drier, faster sounding amp. Notes decayed quickly and - thinking of piano - perhaps a little unnaturally. Great for hearing detail or being analytical/critical! The Classic OTOH brings a more 'natural' length of decay and timbre to my ears.


----------



## agile

knowhatimean said:


> I have no doubt whatsoever that "Acoustic" music of any kind absolutely is the sweet spot for HD800. Depending on how good a job was done capturing the acoustic elements of the recording, the "sky's the limit" on how great this music can sound on these phones.I spend less then a very low % of my listening time listening to any non-acoustic music. Orchestral music can be just exceptional sounding on them !
> 
> Many years ago I had a Meier Stepdance 2 that I used that I just loved ! The Corda Classic is one of the few non-balanced in amps that I'm seriously interested in given how impressed I was with that portable amp I had . I keep saying I want to go to a balanced amp so that I can use my Metrum Hex DAC's balanced outs, but truthfully, I've never felt shortchanged running the Hex single ended.
> 
> What is the Classic's going price for the U.S. ? Anyone have any feelings about the SPL Phonitor mini use with the HD800 ?


----------



## Sorrodje

argo duck said:


> Edit: Just to add Jan Meier himself described the Classic as "slightly warmer" than his previous flagship the Concerto amp. The Concerto was indeed - TME - a neutral but drier, faster sounding amp. Notes decayed quickly and - thinking of piano - perhaps a little unnaturally. Great for hearing detail or being analytical/critical! The Classic OTOH brings a more 'natural' length of decay and timbre to my ears.


 
  
 That match my own impressions with the Corda Jazz (good match with HD800 - neutral / slightly on the lean side ) and the Concerto ( not good wit the HD800 - Clinical/Dry - Sold quickly) 
  
 Your Decware amp' should be a really good companion indeed.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ The Decware _does_ seem a good match. Nearly everything sounds terrific (wide mix of material, about 20 hours active listening so far). But - as I say - still the honeymoon period and no comparisons yet, sighted or unsighted 

Yes, I can imagine the Concerto would not have been good with the 800. With an Audez'e LCD 2 (rev 1) though...pretty good...


----------



## Sorrodje

The result is still terrific with my Sonett... and that last for one year   
  
  
  
 For those who are after some good Electronic Music


----------



## shabta

skeptic said:


> I don't think this is possible.  As I understand it, op amps must be fed feedback in order to operate as audio amps/in a linear mode.  Different op amp based amps certainly can sound very different from one another.  E.g., you would never confuse the sound of an iphone vs. mini3 vs. o2 - which all have very different signatures.  But they all inherently require negative feedback, as do all other portable and op amp based amplifiers.


 
 Yeah my bad. The Black Cube Linear uses an opamp-based first amplification stage ( OPA2134), followed by a discrete zero global feedback Class A output stage to amplify the incoming signals. I forgot. Oh well. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## shabta

knowhatimean said:


> I have no doubt whatsoever that "Acoustic" music of any kind absolutely is the sweet spot for HD800. Depending on how good a job was done capturing the acoustic elements of the recording, the "sky's the limit" on how great this music can sound on these phones.I spend less then a very low % of my listening time listening to any non-acoustic music. Orchestral music can be just exceptional sounding on them !


 
  
 It's the only way I can really judge whether a speaker or headphone is accurate. It's kinda hard to know what electronic music, with all the studio wizardry is supposed to sound like. Anyway, hearing the HD800 with Miles Davis's Kind of Blue and some of my favorite classical piano sold me... Bought it right then and there.


----------



## Taowolf51

With the HD800's and V2, The Punch Brother's latest album (The Phosphorescent Blues) sounds absolutely phenomenal.
  
  
 Speaking of the V2, after lots of use and a few tweaks to my EQ, lots of the small issues I described earlier have been fixed. I tweaked my EQ to have a smaller bass boost and a new small upper treble reduction to more closely resemble the balance when I was using my M-Stage. I later checked it against Audiocheck's Perceptual sine sweep and found it damn close to flat. After putting the V2 through maybe 50-70 hours of use since my first impressions and the EQ tweaks, the decay is shorter (faster sounding) especially in the bass,and it's less fatiguing. I also reduced the EQ's preamp intensity, which gave me back some volume, so I now listen at around 10-11 o'clock. All of this is with high gain. Low gain seems to speed things up a very small amount and reduces the bass by a small amount.
  
  


shabta said:


> It's the only way I can really judge whether a speaker or headphone is accurate. It's kinda hard to know what electronic music, with all the studio wizardry is supposed to sound like. Anyway, hearing the HD800 with Miles Davis's Kind of Blue and some of my favorite classical piano sold me... Bought it right then and there.


 
  
 Honestly, most music these days goes through a bunch of studio wizardry, and that includes stuff like bluegrass, jazz, and classical. That's not a bad thing, though (usually).


----------



## shabta

taowolf51 said:


> Honestly, most music these days goes through a bunch of studio wizardry, and that includes stuff like bluegrass, jazz, and classical. That's not a bad thing, though (usually).


 
 Right! Which is why I go to 50s jazz to test a headphone. I do think that I know what a violin or piano is supposed to sound like though, whereas I am not as sure what a drum machine or synthesizer is supposed to sound like...


----------



## Argo Duck

+1. The instrument I know best is piano, which I played for many years. OTOH, my memory and experience of piano is mostly from sitting _at_ the instrument. I suspect this biases my experience compared to someone who doesn't play and hears it only from within a concert hall or chamber. And how does this relate to where microphones are positioned?


----------



## NZtechfreak

shabta said:


> Right! Which is why I go to 50s jazz to test a headphone. I do think that I know what a violin or piano is supposed to sound like though, whereas I am not as sure what a drum machine or synthesizer is supposed to sound like...




As a guitarist I relate to this comment, definitely the instrument I'm most sensitive to - if a headphone can't do guitars to my liking it gets the heave-ho very quickly.


----------



## JamieMcC

As a new HD800 owner ( arrived this morning) I'm just dropping in to say hi and subscribe to the thread.  I only managed to grabbed a couple of hours listening time today but am liking the HD800 experience so far and looking forward to spending many more hours with them.


----------



## knowhatimean

It's killing me , waiting for a Hard Drive that I've just add a few pieces of music to finish optimizing so I can take another listen to some of the things I discovered 2 nights ago ! What I had thought to be the sound of a cracked hammer-shaft on Bryon Janis / Dorati / LSO Rachmaninoff Piano Concertos recordings now appears to be a matter of a too close microphone simply being overloaded due to it's placement near the piano.
  
 The continuousness of the clarity of most of the Orchestral playing kind of discounts the possibility of the noise I was hearing as being a  problem originating from the piano's action . This speaks volumes as to what you're able to hear through the HD800. (& I'm positive that my Metrum Hex DAC has a great deal of impact on this display of "Acoustic Excellence")
  
 Yeah, I think these headphones are keepers. (Hey , I think my Hard Drive is ready; Alright !) (You guys really have to hear these phones straight-wired to the headphone cables ! very nice indeed )


----------



## skeptic

shabta said:


> Yeah my bad. The Black Cube Linear uses an opamp-based first amplification stage ( OPA2134), followed by a discrete zero global feedback Class A output stage to amplify the incoming signals. I forgot. Oh well. Thanks for the heads up.


 
  
 Thanks for explaining this - makes perfect sense to me now!  I have yet to hear a BCL but would be very interested to do so now that I better understand the design.  
  
 Also, x2 on your comment about the hd800's being ideally suited for enjoying high quality, unprocessed, recordings of live instruments and voices, where the realism and natural timbre are able to come through.  Although I still listen to contemporary music (mostly via spotify), my music purchasing took a sharp left turn when I bought these headphones and is now 95% choral. classical, jazz, bluegrass and blues.  Picking up something like the decca sound box set and a handful of LFF's jazz recommendations is sort of a must for hd800 owners, IMO, to hear what these amazing phones can really do.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

*Good Portable Amp or DAC/Amp for HD 800?*
  
 I'm very satisfied with my HD 800 driven by the HDVD 800, but I want to approach that wonderful sound in something more portable.
  
 I started by considering the HiFiMAN HE-500, then found I MUCH preferred the HE-560, but didn't want to spend $900.
  
 So now I am considering amps in the HE-500 price range (i.e. $500) that work well with the HD 800... or maybe DAC/amp even better.  So that is buying a portable (DAC) / amp rather than a new headphone, and using my HD 800.
  
 Here are candidates I got from searching this thread... any comments or additions?
  

Geek Out 1000
Chord Hugo (WAYYYYY too expensive... drop)
Fostex HP P1
CEntrance HiFi M8
Something from Ray Samuels (e.g., Raptor?)
Aune S16
Carat Topaz
Cayin C5.
  
 Thoughts?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Argo Duck

Perhaps Meier Audio? I think Meier's current portable offering is the Stepdance.

I know the HD 800 is one of the hps Jan Meier recommends - in fact I bought mine from him - and there's a fair chance he designs and tests with it in mind.
But I haven't heard the combination and obviously I'm new to the HD 800 so take it FWIW.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

argo duck said:


> Perhaps Meier Audio? I think Meier's current portable offering is the Stepdance.
> 
> I know the HD 800 is one of the hps Jan Meier recommends - in fact I bought mine from him - and there's a fair chance he designs and tests with it in mind.
> But I haven't heard the combination and obviously I'm new to the HD 800 so take it FWIW.


 
 I can find a Meier Corda PC Step and a Quick Step on the Meier site.  I see "Stepdance" mentioned in some reviews, but cannot find a vendor description of it.
  
 Same as the PC Step?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## q2klepto

I'm trying to make some custom cables for a friends HD800 - and damn, these large barrel connectors cost an arm and a leg to ship to Canada.  Double Helix, Norne Audio and ALO Music charge $30USD for shipping. 
  
 Other than eBay - where else can i grab HD800 connectors where shipping isnt that bad?


----------



## kapanak

ruthieandjohn said:


> *Good Portable Amp or DAC/Amp for HD 800?*
> 
> I'm very satisfied with my HD 800 driven by the HDVD 800, but I want to approach that wonderful sound in something more portable.
> 
> ...


 
 Concero HP is my recommendation.


----------



## Argo Duck

Sorry! It's the QuickStep I meant. There's a thread about it around here. Introduced in 2012 it seems to have a strong following. Lot of posts to wade through though :eek:



ruthieandjohn said:


> I can find a Meier Corda PC Step and a Quick Step on the Meier site.  I see "Stepdance" mentioned in some reviews, but cannot find a vendor description of it.
> 
> Same as the PC Step?
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## punit

I have tried the Meier Quickstep with HD800, was not happy with the sound. Sounded lean. I have also tried the Classic with HD800, too neutral for my liking, mids lacked some weight & bodyIMO.


----------



## knowhatimean

Actually, I used the HP P1 as a DAC & added a Stepdance to the "stack" to use as the amp.While the HP P1 could be used by itself I really didn't think it's amp section worked as well as the Stepdance did.
  
 This was quite a few years ago as I don't think the Stepdance is being produced anymore !
  
 (I no longer use portable audio but it's interesting that some of you would consider using your HD800 in a portable rig. It's "doable"I suppose; I couldn't live without using my Metrum Hex DAC everywhere so it's a no go for myself, but I'm an "Old Geezer" !)


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Oh that sounds disappointing. I will look out for this when I get round to hooking up my Classic. Meier does indeed make neutrality one of his primary design goals I understand...


----------



## Dragonsan

ruthieandjohn said:


> *Good Portable Amp or DAC/Amp for HD 800?*
> 
> I'm very satisfied with my HD 800 driven by the HDVD 800, but I want to approach that wonderful sound in something more portable.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Dragonfly v1.2 powers the HD800s quite well.


----------



## knowhatimean

I don't know if I'd be so quick to discount the Classic , it might be just fine if the DAC you're using is up to the task of providing some
 tonal weight !
  
 I know my thoughts on what kind of headphone amp I needed changed when I started using the DAC I'm using ! (but, to be honest, I'm
 using a pretty expensive DAC so the old YMMV is definitely in play here !)


----------



## punit

I had the Meier Daccord + Classic stack. The Classic is great with Hifiman,Audeze and Beyer T1 but not great synergy with HD 800 for me.


----------



## Sorrodje

@Punit :  What's you amp of choice for your HD800 ?  Indeed the Meier gear is slightly on the lean side.  I associated the daccord with my Sonett and the Jazz with a Rega dac .. never tried the stack yet. 
  
  
 For music.. Indeed acoustic , non amplified instruments are the best to evaluate the fidely but Electronic music are really a good test for audio equipment. some EDM ( for example what I linked a few post above) use massively small sounds , complex sound textures, sub bass sutleties, ambiances, layering.  if those subtleties are not perfectly reproduced , the music lose all its savour. 
  
 Classical and Electronic are the two music I definitely can't listen with average headphones.


----------



## PleasantSounds

sorrodje said:


> For music.. Indeed acoustic , non amplified instruments are the best to evaluate the fidely but Electronic music are really a good test for audio equipment. some EDM ( for example what I linked a few post above) use massively small sounds , complex sound textures, sub bass sutleties, ambiances, layering.  if those subtleties are not perfectly reproduced , the music lose all its savour.


 
  
 The problem is that if you can't hear them, you can't tell if these subtleties are missing in the source material or if your gear doesn't reproduce them - unless you have a reference platform.
  
 Acoustic music has the advantage that with some training one knows what to expect, as experience of  live performances can determine these expectations to a large degree.


----------



## Sorrodje

pleasantsounds said:


> The problem is that if you can't hear them, you can't tell if these subtleties are missing in the source material or if your gear doesn't reproduce them - unless you have a reference platform.


 
  
 If we're talking about accuracy that's perfectly right. but that wasn't my point. 
  
 Electronic Music are like drugs. we all know it's artificial but what we look for is to be overwhelmed by the music. The reference point is our own artificial pleasure not the real life. And I'm really picky when it comes to my personal pleasure.


----------



## Blackmore

Agree
  
 Quote:


sorrodje said:


> For music.. Indeed acoustic , non amplified instruments are the best to evaluate the fidely but Electronic music are really a good test for audio equipment. some EDM ( for example what I linked a few post above) use massively small sounds , complex sound textures, sub bass sutleties, ambiances, layering.  if those subtleties are not perfectly reproduced , the music lose all its savour.
> 
> Classical and Electronic are the two music I definitely can't listen with average headphones.


----------



## zilch0md

Hi kayandjohn,
  


ruthieandjohn said:


> *Good Portable Amp or DAC/Amp for HD 800?*
> 
> I'm very satisfied with my HD 800 driven by the HDVD 800, but I want to approach that wonderful sound in something more portable.
> 
> ...


 
  


punit said:


> I have tried the Meier Quickstep with HD800, was not happy with the sound. Sounded lean. I have also tried the Classic with HD800, too neutral for my liking, mids lacked some weight & bodyIMO.


 
  
  


argo duck said:


> ^ Oh that sounds disappointing. I will look out for this when I get round to hooking up my Classic. Meier does indeed make neutrality one of his primary design goals I understand...


 
  
  
 When talking about the Stepdance or the newer Quickstep, it's all about the source because these Meier offerings are intensely neutral and transparent - they are practically_ invisible_. *I'm not kidding when I say that of all the desktop and portable amps I've owned, the Meier Stepdance remains my personal benchmark for neutrality and transparency. * It's every bit as excruciatingly revealing and unforgiving as the HD800. They are birds of a feather, truly. *When you put an amp like the Meier Stepdance in front of a headphone like the HD800, the recording and the DAC are laid out naked before you.*
  
 I personally find the Line Out from my FiiO X5's PCM1792A DAC to be far superior to any other portable source I've used with the Stepdance > HD800, having none of the fatiguing "Sabre glare" I can hear with various ESS9023 and ESS9018 implementations I've tried, including the Audioquest Dragonfly (v1), the JDS Labs ODAC, the Stoner Acoustics UD100. To be fair, perhaps the best I've ESS implementation I've owned is the ESS9023 magic of the Resonessence Concero, but it's not "portable" (and neither is the ES9018-2M and amp-equipped Concero HP - which I've never heard, but gets high praise for use with the HD800). 
  
 Another portable DAC option for use with the Meier QuickStep > HD800, for those who want a warmer, thicker signature that will thoroughly corrupt the strengths of both the amp and the headphone, is the TDA1543-based, 9V-battery powered, portable non-oversampling DAC called "The Battery DAC," as sold on eBay by a fellow in Paris, France:   
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Non-Oversampling-NOS-DAC-TDA1543-DIR9001-SPDIF-Coax-Optical-dual-9V-NiMH-w-charg-/201003880227
  
 Warning:  This thing is not recommended for those who have an affection for micro-details and a neutral frequency response. It literally butchers the HD800's best traits, but I'm utterly in love with the way it sounds - the HD800 reveals all, as usual, and this critter has a lot of "desirable" harmonic distortion, but I prefer using the HD800 with this DAC, to any other headphone.  If you want every song in your library to bring out an emotional response...  If you want to just have fun listening to music... If you want to everything to sound organic and natural, with absolutely no digititis, no fatigue... If you struggle with analyizing your music instead of just listening to it...  get this DAC. (Note that you'll have to drive it with either a Coaxial or Optical input - I use the Coax Out from my FiiO X5.)  
  
 My Metrum Octave MkII desktop NOS DAC is far more refined than "The Battery DAC," somewhat splitting the difference between it and an oversampling DAC like the ESS9018 of the HA-1, but for portable use, I really like keeping "The Battery DAC" on hand, as I can always switch between using it and the FiiO X5's excellent PCM1792A Line Out to drive the 15V-powered Stepdance > HD800.
  


Spoiler: More info on the Meier portables...



In Skylab's series of portable amp reviews, a few years back, he wrote that the Stepdance "is almost too neutral."  For a long while, the Meier Stepdance was the only portable amp listed in his profile. Keep in mind that he has a taste for tube gear (Lebens with Audeze, etc. and vintage solid state gear), but I consider his reviews to be dead on, as I've never bought anything that didn't sound just as he had described it. Even his relatively recent innerfidelity.com review of the OPPO HA-1 nails it when he hints that it's not a good solution for the HD800 - even though he never actually names the HD800 in the statement to which I'm referring.
  
 The QuickStep is much like the discontinued 2Stepdance and the Stepdance before it, but has a smaller case that's flat instead of rounded (better for stacking), has a longer battery life (using more efficient OPA209s instead of OPA1611s), has more durable TRS jacks and a front-mounted gain switch instead of PCB-mounted in the 9V battery compartment.
  
 Both the QuickStep and its older siblings are really quite sophisticated, having a 32-step digital volume control and Meier's unique "Active Balance" technology, where he emulates balanced output on a single-ended TRS output, by actively cancelling (nulling) the impedance fluctuations generated by each driver so that they are not "felt" by the opposite driver - despite the common ground.  Very clever - no balanced cables required.  
  
 Add to this the fact that these Meier portables can be made to swing nearly 30V at the rails (+/- 15V) by increasing their supply voltage, with the use of an external power supply or battery pack.  They can handle up to a 15VDC supply voltage, which remarkably, not only increases the output power to your headphones, but also reduces THD+N figures.  Datasheets for either the OPA1611 or OPA209 show that these op-amps can function with supply voltages much lower than the 9V supplied by these amp's internal batteries, but THD+N improves as you increase the supply voltage to 15V, where it peaks, then starts to taper if you increase the supply voltage to the maximum of 18V (which would exceed Meier's max. of 15V, anyway - there are other circuits inside the Meier that can't handle more than 15V.)
  
 So the hot tip with the Meier portables is to improve bass control and extension, as well as dynamics by increasing the power output while also minimizing THD+N - by using a portable Li-Ion battery pack and an inline voltage regulator (to maintain a constant 15V supply to the amp, as the battery pack decays from 23V to 15V with use.)   
  
 See http://tinyurl.com/k3yrrk6 and http://tinyurl.com/lwejmp7 for more information about 15V portable power.


  
 Lastly, outside of using the Meier Stepdance or Quickstep with the HD800, I find the ESS9018-K2M equipped OPPO HA-2 portable DAC/amp to be surprisingly satisfying with the HD800 for no longer than an hour at a sitting. I use the HA-2 with the low gain setting (again, surprisingly, with the HD800) and without the Bass+ boost feature, but for extended listening, the HA-2's Sabre DAC wears me down, with my ears getting fatigued after a while, compared to the PCM1792A DAC of the FiiO X5 - which is seriously marvelous (but I have no love for the FiiO X5's amp section.)
  
 I should also mention that the LH Labs Geek Out USB-powered DAC/amp has a big following for HD800 users, but I've not heard it yet.  It uses the same DAC as the OPPO HA-2, but can produce a lot more power, in its stronger variants. I personally don't think the extra power is really needed for the HD800, going by how much punch and control I hear with the OPPO HA-2.  Head-Fi member jazzfan uses a Geek Out 450 > HD800, driven by his iPhone > CCK, and powered by an Anker 5VDC battery pack on a USB Y-cable. The Geek Out gets its power from the portable 5V battery pack while getting data from the iPhone > CCK cable.  It's an ungainly package for portable use, but I'm a big believer in putting sound quality ahead of convenience and would really like to hear this rig.
  
 Mike


----------



## shabta

skeptic said:


> Thanks for explaining this - makes perfect sense to me now!  I have yet to hear a BCL but would be very interested to do so now that I better understand the design.
> 
> Also, x2 on your comment about the hd800's being ideally suited for enjoying high quality, unprocessed, recordings of live instruments and voices, where the realism and natural timbre are able to come through.  Although I still listen to contemporary music (mostly via spotify), my music purchasing took a sharp left turn when I bought these headphones and is now 95% choral. classical, jazz, bluegrass and blues.  Picking up something like the decca sound box set and a handful of LFF's jazz recommendations is sort of a must for hd800 owners, IMO, to hear what these amazing phones can really do.


 
 I have had the same experience of great gear changing the kind of music I listen to.


----------



## Sorrodje

zilch0md said:


> these Meier offerings are intensely neutral and transparent - they are practically_ invisible_.


 
  
 You nailed it. Everyone who are after this kind of "intensively neutral and transparent" should give a try to what Jan Meier offers. 
  
 But the "intensively" is the issue here.  if we feel ( and I feel it too) that the gear is intensively transparent, there's something wrong : as if the gear washed a bit too much the music .  
  
 I really compared the Corda Jazz and my old antique sound labs MG Head during month and I always felt that the Corda jazz was the cleanest and the most transparent of  the two amps BUT  overally the result i had with the ASL MG head was more true to real life as if musicians have a kind of real presence the Corda Jazz could not render.  Don't ask me why or how it's possible and don't even ask me to demonstrate this in a DBT but I'm affirmative and that's why I 've choosen the tube route while I overally think the Solid State route is technically better. 
  
 Hope that makes sense.


----------



## Blackmore

Cables are very crusual, for such high quality transducers as HD800 are, imo. And, I mean the whole pack, from digital to their own.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

zilch0md said:


> When talking about the Stepdance or the newer Quickstep, it's all about the source because these Meier offerings are intensely neutral and transparent - they are practically _invisible_. *I'm not kidding when I say that of all the desktop and portable amps I've owned, the Meier Stepdance remains my personal benchmark for neutrality and transparency.*  It's every bit as excruciatingly revealing and unforgiving as the HD800. They are birds of a feather, truly. *When you put an amp like the Meier Stepdance in front of a headphone like the HD800, the recording and the DAC are laid out naked before you.*
> 
> I personally find the Line Out from my FiiO X5's PCM1792A DAC to be far superior to any other portable source I've used with the Stepdance > HD800, having none of the fatiguing "Sabre glare" I can hear with various ESS9023 and ESS9018 implementations I've tried, including the Audioquest Dragonfly (v1), the JDS Labs ODAC, the Stoner Acoustics UD100. To be fair, perhaps the best I've ESS implementation I've owned is the ESS9023 magic of the Resonessence Concero, but it's not "portable" (and neither is the ES9018-2M and amp-equipped Concero HP - which I've never heard, but gets high praise for use with



Wow, zilch0md, thanks for the MOST comprehensive information on portable amps (and source) for the HD 800. I have the X3, which also has a Line Out and a coax out as does the X5. That Quickstep sounds right on... And affordable. Thanks!


----------



## zilch0md

^ You're welcome!


----------



## zilch0md

sorrodje said:


> You nailed it. Everyone who are after this kind of "intensively neutral and transparent" should give a try to what Jan Meier offers.
> 
> But the "intensively" is the issue here.  if we feel ( and I feel it too) that the gear is intensively transparent, there's something wrong : as if the gear washed a bit too much the music .
> 
> ...


 
  
 Makes sense to me!  In the end, we're pretty much all looking for an experience that invokes an emotional response and I say, whatever works for you is perfectly valid.  That's why I'm so open-minded about the somewhat crude yet very enjoyable "The Battery DAC," but I wouldn't want to be caught having it as my only source.


----------



## knowhatimean

zilch0md said:


> When talking about the Stepdance or the newer Quickstep, it's all about the source because these Meier offerings are intensely neutral and transparent - they are practically_ invisible_. *I'm not kidding when I say that of all the desktop and portable amps I've owned, the Meier Stepdance remains my personal benchmark for neutrality and transparency. * It's every bit as excruciatingly revealing and unforgiving as the HD800. They are birds of a feather, truly. *When you put an amp like the Meier Stepdance in front of a headphone like the HD800, the recording and the DAC are laid out naked before you.*
> 
> 
> 
> Mike


 
 It was years ago, I had posted that I'd converted my 2 Stepdance to run off an external battery pack from a few suggestions that Mike had made . I don't think the HD800 even existed while I was using this "stack" (player / HP P1 w/ I think was using an AKM dac chip/ 2 Stepdance & external battery pack) but I was pretty "floored" by how good this little rig performed.
  
 Now I've got to dig up this rig ! (Being an equipment "hoarder" has it's advantages occasionally) to see how this amp & battery pack works as part of a home system... Now if I could only figure out how to run it off of my Equitech 1.5Q BPT line conditioner instead of using the battery pack... or not. In any case the HD800 should sound pretty interesting w/ my Hex DAC & this amp sitting in front of it !
  
 Which drawer did I put my portable stuff in is the question ??? (I hope the mice haven't eaten it) ("C#%p" I just remembered I passed it along to my nephew... Oh well it was a nice memory...It does give me a lot of interest in the Corda Classic though)


----------



## punit

sorrodje said:


> @Punit :  What's you amp of choice for your HD800 ?  Indeed the Meier gear is slightly on the lean side.  I associated the daccord with my Sonett and the Jazz with a Rega dac .. never tried the stack yet.


 
 Of all the amps i have owned the following sounded good with HD 800 to me  :
  
 Level 1 (not arranged in any particular order):
 Audio GD Master 9
 Bottlehead Mainline
 Cavalli Liquid Glass
 Glenn OTL (custom made )
 Woo WA22
  
 Level 2:
 Bottlehead Crack (with Speed ball)
  
 Level 3:
 Darkvoice 336i
 Woo WA6
  
 Edit : Haven't owned the Schiit Rag, but from the brief time i spent with it I would classify it as level 1


----------



## shabta

doritos said:


> Hi everyone!
> I am new here in Head-Fi, Great to be here!
> I am now in the hunt for a great headphone setup and i've been looking at the HD800 for some time.
> I can't audition them unfortunately so i have to rely on your opinions.
> ...


 
 They sound great as long as they are properly amped. That means giving them enough power, proper impedance and voltage swing. There are lots of inexpensive amps that will do that. They sound better if you use a better amp. Since this is a thread of people who like the HD800 this is not the place to find people who will tell you that they sound artificial. They do not need to be healed, tamed or fixed, IMHO. Just buy'em you won't regret it.


----------



## Sorrodje

shabta said:


> Just buy'em you won't regret it.


 
  
 Can depend on the main musical genre Doritos usually listen to...


----------



## MattTCG

doritos said:


> I listen mainly to Jazz. How are they with them?
> I am really afraid they won't sound natural..


 
  
 Jazz is on my playlist 50% of the time. This genre is incredible with the hd800. It won't disappoint.


----------



## shabta

doritos said:


> I listen mainly to Jazz. How are they with them?
> I am really afraid they won't sound natural..


 
 Well I slightly disagree with Sorrodje, but I can understand people who don't like them with heavy metal or garage rock or super compressed modern pop. But if it is acoustic Jazz these headphones are near perfect.


----------



## shabta

What is your budget?


----------



## Sorrodje

shabta said:


> Well I slightly disagree with Sorrodje, but I can understand people who don't like them with heavy metal or garage rock or super compressed modern pop.


 
  
 Then we mostly agree


----------



## Priidik

shabta said:


> Well I slightly disagree with Sorrodje, but I can understand people who don't like them with heavy metal or garage rock or super compressed modern pop. But if it is acoustic Jazz these headphones are near perfect.


 
 Love 'em with metal and etc. Only headphone i have heard that does leading edges and transients right. With appropriate chain.
 HD800 actually suck badly with some gear with metal and super fast rock generes.
  


matttcg said:


> Jazz is on my playlist 50% of the time. This genre is incredible with the hd800. It won't disappoint.


 
 I sheldom listen jazz, but i can easily trick myself thinking i am listening the real thing. A friend of mine (jazzhead) loves HD800 with jazz.


----------



## Taowolf51

shabta said:


> Right! Which is why I go to 50s jazz to test a headphone. I do think that I know what a violin or piano is supposed to sound like though, whereas I am not as sure what a drum machine or synthesizer is supposed to sound like...


 
  
 It's still dangerous out there, though. Unless you're listening to original press vinyl or explicitly not remastered albums, they have most likely been remastered without your knowledge. Again, still not a bad thing, a lot of times work goes into fixing issues with the recording (and sometimes unfortunately wrecking the dynamic range). If something is remastered well (or mastered well in the first place, it'll be better than the original recording.
  


sorrodje said:


> If we're talking about accuracy that's perfectly right. but that wasn't my point.
> 
> Electronic Music are like drugs. we all know it's artificial but what we look for is to be overwhelmed by the music. The reference point is our own artificial pleasure not the real life. And I'm really picky when it comes to my personal pleasure.


 
  
 Definitely agreed. I'd also like to add that electronic music often supplies really clean signals and isn't limited by the microphone, recording room, etc. Great for assessing decay and ability to handle complexity, since often problems are not with the track itself, but with your gear.
  
 Some electronic music can be very demanding of your gear as well, Hardscrabble by The Flashbulb was an album I simply couldn't understand until I got a pair of LCD-2's (and it's really incredible with the HD800's). If your gear isn't seriously good, it's just going to sound like a mess, especially "The Bridgeport Run", which is my complexity and decay speed test track.


----------



## knowhatimean

Hey, it page 1200 !!!
  
 I think the 9th person posting gets the headphone amp of his choice, that the last 20 posters all chip in to buy him !
  
 I'll let everyone know by tomorrow which amp I'd like !!! Thanks in advance !!!
  
 (Sorry, but I ran out of what I was "smoking", but I'll make sure to share the next time)
  
 steve


----------



## MIKELAP

q2klepto said:


> I'm trying to make some custom cables for a friends HD800 - and damn, these large barrel connectors cost an arm and a leg to ship to Canada.  Double Helix, Norne Audio and ALO Music charge $30USD for shipping.
> 
> Other than eBay - where else can i grab HD800 connectors where shipping isnt that bad?


 
 Parts Connexion in Toronto i think they have Connex HD 800 connectors for $50.00 a pair and up


----------



## whirlwind

Where is the best place to get a pair of replacements pads


----------



## Sorrodje

whirlwind said:


> Where is the best place to get a pair of replacements pads


 
  
 http://en-us.sennheiser.com/  Maybe


----------



## Blackmore

Not sure how much normally anything for HD800 may cost, but I found this seller and seems that prices are ok, at least the original cable is much cheaper than say in US with MSRP USD 299
  
http://www.proaudioshop.nl/Kabel-HD-800-p-17699.html


----------



## knowhatimean

q2klepto said:


> I'm trying to make some custom cables for a friends HD800 - and damn, these large barrel connectors cost an arm and a leg to ship to Canada.  Double Helix, Norne Audio and ALO Music charge $30USD for shipping.
> 
> Other than eBay - where else can i grab HD800 connectors where shipping isnt that bad?


 
 If you really want to make a set of custom cables for your friends HD800, why not "Think outside the Box" & straightwire them to the
 headphones drivers.
  
 I did this with a DHC Molecule cable & love it. Just google "HD800; Disassemble & measurements" for a guide to how to get to the drivers. You're on your own when it comes to attaching the the actual cable to the driver's terminals ,but when you're looking at the existing connection to the input connector you realize it doesn't take any rocket science to just get rid of whats there & put a nice cable on. After you've attached the cable to the drivers, make sure you pull a little bit extra inside the headphone & secure it so the cable won't be pulling on the connection. I found a moldable glue that hardens to rubber called "Sugru" at Lowes . Place a ball of it on the wires & push it down to the opening where you removed the input jack from. Then do the same thing on the wires on the outside of the headphone pushing it up to where the wires are exiting the headphone. You have 30min. set time before it hardens.
  
 I've made the assumption that he's a pretty good friend you're doing this for ! (Otherwise, just do this for your own headphones)


----------



## MattTCG

http://en-us.sennheiser.com/service-support-part-finder


----------



## ubs28

I think the HD800 excels with hollywood movies which is guaranteed to have excellent production quality. With music it's basically a hit or miss regardless of genre. There are even metal songs which sounds excellent with the HD800 so I don't think the HD800 is genre specific, as long as the production quality is very good.
  
 But I listen to anything on the HD800 whether the audio quality is good or not since I'm not really bothered by it, as long as the music is good.


----------



## Alexalder

Tried the HD800 today, the bass is just not there, the highs are metallic and artificial.
 This might be a good recording headphone, definitely not my type, i have been reading these things for years but i had to check


----------



## ruthieandjohn

alexalder said:


> Tried the HD800 today, the bass is just not there, the highs are metallic and artificial.
> 
> 
> This might be a good recording headphone, definitely not my type, i have been reading these things for years but i had to check



 

The amplifier matters with the HD 800 and can influence how much bass comes through. Did you have a good amp?


----------



## Alexalder

ruthieandjohn said:


> alexalder said:
> 
> 
> > Tried the HD800 today, the bass is just not there, the highs are metallic and artificial.
> ...


 

 My asgard and the shop one. I refuse to believe an amp can add that much bass to compensate. Oh and those fake highs: Every "s" in a song was killing me.
 Some songs came out really good, i enjoyed the comfort and the soundstage, for classical music this may be the definitive one. The bass is really good when it is present


----------



## kapanak

alexalder said:


> My asgard and the shop one. I refuse to believe an amp can add that much bass to compensate


 

 Continue to refuse, but we've heard what an OTL amp does to the HD800. YMMV. Also, you come from the LCD-2 and HD600/650. HD800 is a whole other beast.
  
 Asgard and HD800 is one of the worst pairings, as Asgard accentuates all the bad characters of the HD800.


----------



## MattTCG

alexalder said:


> My asgard and the shop one. I refuse to believe an amp can add that much bass to compensate. Oh and those fake highs: Every "s" in a song was killing me.
> Some songs came out really good, i enjoyed the comfort and the soundstage, for classical music this may be the definitive one. The bass is really good when it is present


 
 On the right amp/dac the hd800 has some of the punchiest bass I've ever heard on any hp at any price. I confess that I haven't heard the Abyss though.


----------



## Alexalder

kapanak said:


> Continue to refuse, but we've heard what an OTL amp does to the HD800. YMMV. Also, you come from the LCD-2 and HD600/650. HD800 is a whole other beast.
> 
> Asgard and HD800 is one of the worst pairings, as Asgard accentuates all the bad characters of the HD800.


 

 I read pretty much everywhere it's a good pairing, while not the best. It's all been said for years though, no real need to write this again.
 I can gamble and buy an expensive amp, change the cables, pray in ancient languages, but no one assures me the final result will be good. It should not sound THAT bad to begin with


matttcg said:


> On the right amp/dac the hd800 has some of the punchiest bass I've ever heard on any hp at any price. I confess that I haven't heard the Abyss though.


 

 Yes i wrote the bass is good, but the extension is lacking, again i refuse to believe an amp can add THAT much extension, and i don't really want an amp that changes the song that much :/ Sure i would really like to try, unfortunately for where i live i've been really lucky to even try them


----------



## Takeanidea

HD800 today, the bass is just not there, the highs are metallic and artificial.
This might be a good recording headphone, definitely not my type, i have been reading these things for years but i had to check
[/quote]

I hear people from time to time talk about lack of bass and too harsh treble for the HD800. Well to all of those headfiers who think this is evidence there is a fault with their sound signature let me one more spell it out. It's not the case! 
These observations are based on a individuals findings; over how long a listen ? To what types of music? Is it through the amplifier you will use? What is the user used to hearing with their existing phones? 
HD800 , for probably the 1000th time of saying in this forum , have an amazing width of sound , are great at detail are non fatiguing and deserve to be perceived as a high end headphone which will stand their own with any other high end headphone anyone else has.
The end


----------



## MattTCG

alexalder said:


> I read pretty much everywhere it's a good pairing, while not the best. It's all been said for years though, no real need to write this again.
> I can gamble and buy an expensive amp, change the cables, pray in ancient languages, but no one assures me the final result will be good. It should not sound THAT bad to begin with
> 
> Yes i wrote the bass is good, but the extension is lacking, again i refuse to believe an amp can add THAT much extension, and i don't really want an amp that changes the song that much :/ Sure i would really like to try, unfortunately for where i live i've been really lucky to even try them


 
  
 Believe it or don't. It's not my job to convince you or anyone for that matter. I'm just chiming in with my opinion so that other might recognize a difference of what I hear and what you hear if they come hear looking for information. 
  
 So...IMO all the extension, all the punch and all the texture with the bass frequencies. Best I've heard.


----------



## Taowolf51

I actually moved from the LCD-2's (non-fazor) to the HD800's and the bass is definitely more tactile on the Senns, extension is beyond human hearing for both.


----------



## Alexalder

takeanidea said:


> HD800 today, the bass is just not there, the highs are metallic and artificial.
> This might be a good recording headphone, definitely not my type, i have been reading these things for years but i had to check


 
 I hear people from time to time talk about lack of bass and too harsh treble for the HD800. Well to all of those headfiers who think this is evidence there is a fault with their sound signature let me one more spell it out. It's not the case!
 These observations are based on a individuals findings; over how long a listen ? To what types of music? Is it through the amplifier you will use? What is the user used to hearing with their existing phones?
 HD800 , for probably the 1000th time of saying in this forum , have an amazing width of sound , are great at detail are non fatiguing and deserve to be perceived as a high end headphone which will stand their own with any other high end headphone anyone else has.
 The end[/quote]

 The end? Lol
  


matttcg said:


> Believe it or don't. It's not my job to convince you or anyone for that matter. I'm just chiming in with my opinion so that other might recognize a difference of what I hear and what you hear if they come hear looking for information.
> 
> So...IMO all the extension, all the punch and all the texture with the bass frequencies. Best I've heard.


 

 Well it may be you being strange as pretty much the whole world agrees on LCD being much better in that regard. Obviously i have no problem with your opinion


----------



## kapanak

Okay now I feel the troll. And we have fed it. The moment you start to make universal claims like "everywhere", "everybody" and "the whole world agrees", you've lost your credibility, and your impressions become moot.


----------



## Alexalder

kapanak said:


> Okay now I feel the troll. And we have fed it. The moment you start to make universal claims like "everywhere", "everybody" and "the whole world agrees", you've lost your credibility, and your impressions become moot.


 

 What? "Takeanidea" said "the end", i just reminded that you are in the minority with your bass opinion, although perfectly legitimate. I also said that i would really like to try them again if i could, so cut the troll ******** please


----------



## johnjen

alexalder said:


> Tried the HD800 today, the bass is just not there, the highs are metallic and artificial.
> This might be a good recording headphone, definitely not my type, i have been reading these things for years but i had to check


 
 "the bass is just not there"  
 "the highs are metallic and artificial"
  
 Both of these are due to what you are using to feed them.
  
 As has been said, repeatedly, 800's will deliver the signal fed them with all the warts and sharp edges intact, with stark precision.
  
 This is true of most SotA devices, not just 800's.
  
 JJ


----------



## Alexalder

johnjen said:


> "the bass is just not there"
> "the highs are metallic and artificial"
> 
> Both of these are due to what you are using to feed them.
> ...


 
 It's not even remotely precise when it's cutting the bass completely. If you say i must compensate this with dark amplifiers that's the opposite of what you're saying


----------



## johnjen

alexalder said:


> It's not even remotely precise when it's cutting the bass completely. If you say i must compensate this with dark amplifiers that's the opposite of what you're saying


 
 I have never heard bass like I have with my 800's.
 Ever!
  
 The 800's aren't "cutting the bass completely", what is feeding them has.
  
 "If you say i must compensate this with dark amplifiers that's the opposite of what you're saying", I said no such thing.
  
 If you want 800's to sing, then your search is on for a proper dac and amp (both are crucial, not just the amp).
  
 State of the Art requires a proper match with ALL components if you seek to explore this portion of the audio spectrum.  
 Even if all you want is decent SQ using 800's, this still requires a decent signal them.
  
 You'll know, immediately, when the signal isn't decent. 
  
 JJ


----------



## Zoom25

kapanak said:


> Continue to refuse, but we've heard what an OTL amp does to the HD800. YMMV. Also, you come from the LCD-2 and HD600/650. HD800 is a whole other beast.
> 
> Asgard and HD800 is one of the worst pairings, as *Asgard accentuates all the bad characters of the HD800.*


 
  
 Nope, Asgard is the problem there. I didn't like it with dynamics or orthos. For orthos, I'd rather go with Emotiva Mini-x.
  
 (I know a lot of people love that amp. In fact, I nearly got one myself but opted for the Mini-x. I just didn't find anything attractive about it whatsoever in terms of sound. Just the price I guess.)


----------



## Alexalder

johnjen said:


> I have never heard bass like I have with my 800's.
> Ever!
> 
> The 800's aren't "cutting the bass completely", what is feeding them has.
> ...


 

 What is a proper DAC for you? Are we talking balanced?


----------



## RUMAY408

matttcg said:


> Believe it or don't. It's not my job to convince you or anyone for that matter. I'm just chiming in with my opinion so that other might recognize a difference of what I hear and what you hear if they come hear looking for information.
> 
> So...IMO all the extension, all the punch and all the texture with the bass frequencies. Best I've heard.


 
 The HD800 is so appealing for audiophiles because it can scale with the quality of the Source/DAC/AMP combo.  A complex and expensive journey.  Matt knows!
  
 I'll see you at the next meet Matt


----------



## Mr Rick

kapanak said:


> Continue to refuse, but we've heard what an OTL amp does to the HD800. YMMV. Also, you come from the LCD-2 and HD600/650. HD800 is a whole other beast.
> 
> Asgard and HD800 is one of the worst pairings, as Asgard accentuates all the bad characters of the HD800.


 
  
 That is odd. I was lead to believe the HD800s had very few faults.  Please explain in detail please.


----------



## Alexalder

mr rick said:


> That is odd. I was lead to believe the HD800s had very few faults.  Please explain in detail please.


 

 Sybilant highs, anemic bass ecc


----------



## jsgraha

alexalder said:


> It's not even remotely precise when it's cutting the bass completely. If you say i must compensate this with dark amplifiers that's the opposite of what you're saying




Imo, maybe just buy a used schiit vali and geek out. If you still don't like it, they can be sold at minimum loss. After that, maybe consider to move to other phone, such as th900. Even though, I still prefer the bass impact of hd800 to either lcd or th900, but th900 have more quantity which you might like


----------



## Alexalder

jsgraha said:


> Imo, maybe just buy a used schiit vali and geek out. If you still don't like it, they can be sold at minimum loss. After that, maybe consider to move to other phone, such as th900. Even though, I still prefer the bass impact of hd800 to either lcd or th900, but th900 have more quantity which you might like


 

 Why the vali? I don't really like bass in my ears, and went in thinking of buying the Senns as i pretty much liked everything from them, in-ears, HD600, Amperior, Momentum. But i could not forgive half of my library sounding pretty bad in exchange for some limited gain in the other half.
 I also loved how much they are comfortable, but i already knew that


----------



## TonyNewman

alexalder said:


> Sybilant highs, anemic bass ecc


 
  
 Modding the HD800 fixed the highs for me. With the right amp/DAC combination the HD800 scales into something very special with plenty of bass.
  
 It is a picky beast to drive. Partnered with gear that it likes this headphone will sing.
  
 For me, the Auralic Vega DAC feeding a Simaudio 430HA or WA5 make the magic happen with the HD800.


----------



## Mr Rick

alexalder said:


> Sybilant highs, anemic bass ecc


 
  
 With the exception of a mild peak at 6Khz I see no other deficiencies on a FR curve.


----------



## jsgraha

alexalder said:


> Why the vali? I don't really like bass in my ears, and went in thinking of buying the Senns as i pretty much liked everything from them, in-ears, HD600, Amperior, Momentum. But i could not forgive half of my library sounding pretty bad in exchange for some limited gain in the other half.
> I also loved how much they are comfortable, but i already knew that



I enjoy the combo of vali and geek out, including its bass. I also think both source and amp important for hd800. These combo can be had at minimum cost used, and can be sold at minimum lost. I listen to these combo, even with my daughters kpop album (EXO and 2pm) and found the bass is great (never try asgard). But if you still don't like it, feel free to move to other phone.


----------



## akhyar

alexalder said:


> Sybilant highs, anemic bass ecc




If you don't like what you hear, move on to other headphones as you will save tonne of money in the long run


----------



## johnjen

alexalder said:


> What is a proper DAC for you? Are we talking balanced?


 
 My gear is listed in my sig line.
  
 Yes I'm running all balanced but for decent SQ it isn't required.
 In my opinion if you want to explore the 800's in a SotA situation balanced is the best way to go.
  
 JJ


----------



## koiloco

alexalder said:


> Sybilant highs, anemic bass ecc


 
  I have a perfect solution for you.  Go buy one of the Beats HPs.  They don't have sibilant highs and have great bass.  They are also very colorful in design.
 On top of all mentioned benefits, you will save a lot of $.


----------



## preproman

Jeopardy question:
  
 What is it about a balanced amp the beats a SE amp SQ wise?
  
 Answer:
  
 What is nothing.    
  
 Correct..
  
 Now if you have inherently balanced amp and use the SE output, then yes SQ may be compromised.  However, is you have SE amp by design - SQ wise it's just as good as an inherently balanced amp.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

*TOWARD PORTABLE HD 800 USE

*After nine months of reverently putting on my tuxedo, sitting in a fine leather chair, and listening to Classical Music with my HD 800 and HDVD 800 DAC/amp, I realized that if I were able to carry my HD 800 system around with me, I would be able to meet my need for a full-bandwidth headphone as I worked around the house. I use Grados (12 of 'em) and while I love them, I sometimes miss the bass power, a frequency band where the Grados are rather light. I was considering first a HiFiMAN HE-500, then the HE-560, and upon auditioning the HE-560, it sounded so close to my HD 800s that I starting thinking about how to carry the HD 800s around without too much sacrifice in sound quality from my excellent HDVD 800.

So I grabbed what I had... the Sony PHA-1 portable DAC/amp that has a direct connect to the digital output of both the old 30-pin iPod and the more recent 8-pin iPod connector. It has Wolfson DAC and what claims to be 1.5W of power output, though their more detailed info puts them at 26 mW per channel into 300 ohms (the HDVD 800 can place 480 mW per channel into 600 ohms, for comparison).




I removed the balanced cable from my HD 800 and went back to the original single-ended cable that came with it. In part, this is because of the single-ended nature of the Sony amp, but also I had a custom balanced cable that is at least four times the cross sectional area of the Sennheiser and is a heck of a lot to carry around 10 feet of! I now really appreciate the lightness of the Sennheiser-provided cable. (Now if I could only find a 3' version instead of a 10' version.)

I compared the Sennheiser HD 800 through my HDVD 800 amp and through the PHA-1, both driven by digital input (HDVD 800 from my PC, PHA-1 from my iPod). Both were using lossless CD-quality files of the same music.

Wow!

The bass and other frequencies of both were (to me at least) indistinguishable. The volume was fine, particularly when I switched the PHA-1 to the High Gain position (was adequate even at the low). The sound through the Sony PHA-1 did lose some of the soundstage and imaging as compared to the HDVD 800, which was able to add a vertical extent to the soundstage as well.

But other than that, for a portable system... great!

I know that the PHA-1 is not what one would normally pick for portable use with the HD 800... it was what I had. But it comes so close to the reference HDVD 800 standard that I am quite satisfied. Still looking at other amps, but this is great for now.

Since I only did about 50% of my listening in a sitting, wired-to-the-wall position, and used the Grado PS1000 primarily for that, I only listened about 10% of the time with my HD 800s. But now, carrying around this HD 800 / PHA-1 / iPod portable system, I'm rediscovering new sounds and details in the vast bulk of my music that I listened to on the move. Right now, I am getting head-vibrating bass (yes, it vibrates my head slightly!) with this system on High Gain at 60% volume on "Love In This Club" by Usher, something that I only experienced with the HE-500 in the past (and the HE-500, as I learned in comparative listening, misses a LOT of detail as compared to the HE-560, and I conclude, as compared to the HD 800!)


----------



## JamieMcC

alexalder said:


> Sybilant highs, anemic bass ecc


 
  
 As others have chimed in this really is down to your chain and most specifically your amp. Don't believe if you wish but many owners I expect have heard the hd800 sound the same as you describe at some point and are speaking from experience gained.


----------



## zephex

How would these pair with a Little Dot Mk IV?


----------



## lojay

zephex said:


> How would these pair with a Little Dot Mk IV?


 
  
 Utter crap. I had that combo before. It was muddied, closed-in and just ... bad. The HD800 can do a lot more better than this. 
  
  
 On a side note - I am going to try the following combo:
  
_Source:               _Schiit Modi 2 Uber + Wyrd / Audiophillieo 1 PP
_Dynamic amp:     _Eddie Current 4-45
_Dynamic cans:    _Senn HD800
_E-stat amp:        _ KGSSHV
_E-stat cans:       _ Stax SR009
  
 While my MSB Analog died on me and is undergoing repairs, my Emotiva has been sent home for use with my Teton. That leaves my office-rig DAC-less. Perhaps this $150 DAC that is the Modi 2 will give me some enjoyment while I wait for the Yggy? Time will tell.


----------



## Hun7er

lojay said:


> Utter crap. I had that combo before. It was muddied, closed-in and just ... bad. The HD800 can do a lot more better than this.
> 
> 
> On a side note - I am going to try the following combo:
> ...


 
  
 Which combo did you like the most ?


----------



## preproman

lojay said:


> Utter crap. I had that combo before. It was muddied, closed-in and just ... bad. The HD800 can do a lot more better than this.
> 
> 
> On a side note - I am going to try the following combo:
> ...


 

 Where did the Rag go?


----------



## lojay

hun7er said:


> Which combo did you like the most ?


 
  
 EC 4-45 + HD800 combo is best for live acoustic and classical, I like it a lot better than the KGSSHV + SR009 for classical in fact. For anything else, KGSSHV + SR009 is much better. It does boil down to musical and sound preferences.
  
 Teton + HD800 is quite pointless because I have the 4-45 for classical and the KGSSHV for other stuff. No amplifier can transform the HD800 (even modded) into what it's not. The Teton is at home with the DT880. Amazing stuff - in some respects I like the DT880 more than the HD800 (at about 1/10 the price!). 
  


preproman said:


> Where did the Rag go?


 
  
 Sold 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Looking for speaker amps for the HE-6 but I've got too many other things on my plate. Might consider the Pass INT30A or INT150 which I know you like a lot.


----------



## preproman

Aw man.  I've heard a few thing about the Rag that didn't encourage me to buy.  It was also pointless for what I would have used it for.  Yes.  I'm getting the INT-30 in in a week or so.  I'll do a side by side with the INT-150 to see what the differences are is any.  I'm think those Pass amps will go pretty good with the Yggy.


----------



## lojay

preproman said:


> Aw man.  I've heard a few thing about the Rag that didn't encourage me to buy.  It was also pointless for what I would have used it for.  Yes.  I'm getting the INT-30 in in a week or so.  I'll do a side by side with the INT-150 to see what the differences are is any.  I'm think those Pass amps will go pretty good with the Yggy.


 
  
 That'd be great. I've only got access to the INT30A second hand in Hong Kong so it would be good to know if it is on par with the INT150. 
  
 Turns out I had an extra MHDT Havana v.1 lying around so I can save the $150 on the Modi2.


----------



## preproman

The reason I'm considering the INT30 is because of the HE1000, it also may pair just as well with the HE800.  The HE1000 or the HD800 don't need as much power as the HE-6 as you well know.  So I'm just trying some schitt out..  
  
 What the plan for the Analog?  I got about 3 or 4 DACs and a BA on my mind right now..  This schitt is crazy


----------



## lojay

preproman said:


> The reason I'm considering the INT30 is because of the HE1000, it also may pair just as well with the HE800.  The HE1000 or the HD800 don't need as much power as the HE-6 as you well know.  So I'm just trying some schitt out..
> 
> What the plan for the Analog?  I got about 3 or 4 DACs and a BA on my mind right now..  This schitt is crazy


 
  
 I am trying to erase the thought of the HE1000 from my memory. The main issue with the HE-6 is really comfort - once I get the headband fixed I'll try to get a 4th (!!!) rig wrapped around that. 
  
 I'll just have to get the Analog fixed and either sell it (at a substantial loss given its repairs) or live with it. It is insanely overpriced but really, darn, good. 

 On this note I am rocking out to the MHDT and it is an excellent match with the 4-45 and HD800, the only thing missing is resolution and stage but the immediacy, slam and R2R goodness is all there. Sometimes it is nice to just live with what you have.


----------



## Sorrodje

lojay said:


> EC 4-45 + HD800 combo is best for live acoustic and classical, I like it a lot better than the KGSSHV + SR009 for classical in fact. For anything else, KGSSHV + SR009 is much better. It does boil down to musical and sound preferences.


 
  
 Do you listen to some Contemporary Jazz :  For example Joshua Redman , Keith Jarret, Youn Sun Nah , European contemporary Jazz , Jose James, Roy Hargrove acoustic stuff ,  Chick Corea Acoustic Stuff , Julian Lage and so on ... ?


----------



## lojay

sorrodje said:


> Do you listen to some Contemporary Jazz :  For example Joshua Redman , Keith Jarret, Youn Sun Nah , European contemporary Jazz , Jose James, Roy Hargrove acoustic stuff ,  Chick Corea Acoustic Stuff , Julian Lage and so on ... ?


 
  
 Yes I used to listen to a lot of jazz in that category (eg Keith Jarrett, Hargrove and the less intense Chick Corea stuff), but my tastes are shifting towards orchestral works, classical, guitars (think Rodrigo et Gabriela, Al de Meola, Paco de Lucia) and straight pop/rock. I listen to music while I am at work (and my main rig is in the office) so jazz - depending on which type - will either distract me too much (some of the contemporary jazz music is borderline cacophony) or will put me to sleep. For that sort of jazz you like I could only say the 4-45 vs KGSSHV is a real toss up because the e-stats and dynamics sound way too different. On one hand the precision and separation of the HD800 sounds amazing with this genre, but on the other hand will lack the engagement and sheer speed and transients of the SR009. On balance the SR009 will prevail for you, I think.


----------



## Sorrodje

@lojay : Thks for those impressions . Thise kind of Jazz is my favorite music and I feel like the HD800 is even better for it than for classical .  I heard the SR009 one time  at home in a perfect environment with my Music. Half an hour.. Definitely not enough to have a valuable opinions . just feelings . Indeed, Fast transients of  the Stax are something really special  but I appreciate them above all for Electronic music I tried.  I felt those transients are a bit too fast to be true for acoustic and especially Jazz music.  Against the SR009 , the HD800 is slighly warmer ( Typical Sennheiser Low mids) too and that match well with Jazz.  the SR009 was driven by an EC Electra and the HD800 by ma DNA Sonett 2. 
  
 I don"t listen so much to Rock/Pop though. If I was fan of those genre, I think the HD800 could not be my sole headphone . Planars convey a kind of raw energy that I always think the HD800 fails to offer. Not to mention stats. 
  
 I loved the SR009 speed and FR though.


----------



## shabta

I found that with acoustic music of any kind it was very close between the SR009 and the HD800. I really loved the fast transients on the SR009 and thought it worked better than the HD800 on electric music. There is something a little bit ethereal with the highs on the SR009 that you  sometimes hear that is unique to electrostatics, not sure if it is accurate or not but I loved it. But on electric music I still wouldn't say the SR009 was waaaaay better.These headphones sound more alike than different compared to most of the headphones out there. But I like how old Grateful Dead stuff that wasn't recorded particularly well sounds on the HD800 as well as some of the Hi Res remasters of the early Velvet Underground- just for you to calibrate whatever I say...


----------



## punit

lojay said:


> The Teton is at home with the DT880. Amazing stuff - in some respects I like the DT880 more than the HD800 (at about 1/10 the price!).


 
 DT880 premium was my first real HP 5 years back, I still have it. Yesterday I was doing some chores around the house so was using the DT880 + DX90 ( haven't listened to the DT880 for a few months). I was lost in the music & suddenly in the middle of doing dishes, I had this conversation with myself :
"What is wrong with this sound ? "
"Ummm....Nothing really"
"Why then did you go through over 15 HP's after this ?"
"Ummm.....don't know.....maybe bcos of Head Fi 





"
  
 Sorry for OT.


----------



## lojay

sorrodje said:


> @lojay
> : Thks for those impressions . Thise kind of Jazz is my favorite music and I feel like the HD800 is even better for it than for classical .  I heard the SR009 one time  at home in a perfect environment with my Music. Half an hour.. Definitely not enough to have a valuable opinions . just feelings . Indeed, Fast transients of  the Stax are something really special  but I appreciate them above all for Electronic music I tried.  I felt those transients are a bit too fast to be true for acoustic and especially Jazz music.  Against the SR009 , the HD800 is slighly warmer ( Typical Sennheiser Low mids) too and that match well with Jazz.  the SR009 was driven by an EC Electra and the HD800 by ma DNA Sonett 2.
> 
> I don"t listen so much to Rock/Pop though. If I was fan of those genre, I think the HD800 could not be my sole headphone . Planars convey a kind of raw energy that I always think the HD800 fails to offer. Not to mention stats.
> ...


 I see what you mean here, that's why I said it will be quite a toss up. The SR009 excels in stuff that requires great intimacy, like jazz vocals (but that's not what you listen to most it seems). SR009 makes everything sound close to mic and hence intimate. The HD800 puts you back a few rows and let's you sense the size of the venue. So the biggest difference as I see it is staging. 

Funnily the KGSSHV is much warmer than the 445. Seems like the Electra is typical EC stuff - fast, detailed, bright on the top end and slightly lean. So maybe that is why I say I like the 009 so much.

Still, I use the HD800 more as it is more comfortable and probably better for acoustic instrumentals which I listen to the most (in my case, classical and guitars).

PS I forgot to say: nice taste in music. Would love to revisit contemporary jazz when I have the time. It's like nice Burgundy, more complex but not great for casual drinking. Right now I'm more of a Napa valley guy...


----------



## Sorrodje

the DT880 is a really great heaphone. Unfortunately I hate it.


----------



## Sorrodje

lojay said:


> I see what you mean here, that's why I said it will be quite a toss up. The SR009 excels in stuff that requires great intimacy, like jazz vocals (but that's not what you listen to most it seems).


 
  
 You're perfectly right. We forget the greatest point of the SR009 : mids.  that's make the SR009 an absolute great headphones for voices. 
  
 But Indeed, as you finely noticed, I'm not much into vocals


----------



## lojay

punit said:


> DT880 premium was my first real HP 5 years back, I still have it. Yesterday I was doing some chores around the house so was using the DT880 + DX90 ( haven't listened to the DT880 for a few months). I was lost in the music & suddenly in the middle of doing dishes, I had this conversation with myself :
> [COLOR=EE82EE]"What is wrong with this sound ? "[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=FF0000]"Ummm....Nothing really"[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=EE82EE]"Why then did you go through over 15 HP's after this ?"[/COLOR]
> ...


 Haha I only discovered what the DT880 could do after driving it with the Teton. So thanks to Head Fi I still needed that $5k amp


----------



## preproman

For (Jazz) vocals I prefer the HE-6 and the LCD-3Fs over the HD800.  I don't own a pair of 009s yet, but heard it many times as well as the 007s.  To this day, I still think the HD800 does a better job with large instrument bands i.e... Large orchestral works and Big Band / Swing (Jazz).  Of course the stage the HD800s give is perfect for that type of music


----------



## lojay

preproman said:


> For (Jazz) vocals I prefer the HE-6 and the LCD-3Fs over the HD800.  I don't own a pair of 009s yet, but heard it many times as well as the 007s.  To this day, I still think the HD800 does a better job with large instrument bands i.e... Large orchestral works and Big Band / Swing (Jazz).  Of course the stage the HD800s give is perfect for that type of music


+1

But I'm not a Diana Krall fan. I'm a Mahler fan. So I guess you see why I'm sticking with my present gear


----------



## preproman

Yup - I would to if those were my preferred tunes..  That's a great setup for that.  I thought you would have preferred a more resolving DAC though.


----------



## Sorrodje

At the very end, Audio choices are mostly relatives to Music tastes.  Fortunately it's all about music and it's NOT sport or gaming.


----------



## preproman

> At the very end,* Audio choices are mostly relatives to Music tastes*.  Fortunately it's all about music and it's NOT sport or gaming.


 
  




  
 That's what it all boils down to..


----------



## lojay

preproman said:


> Yup - I would to if those were my preferred tunes..  That's a great setup for that.  I thought you would have preferred a more resolving DAC though.


 I do, that's one reason why I went with the MSB over the AMR. I am aware that the likes of Bricasti will be more resolving but tonality is more important to me - and DACs that do both extraordinarily well will be very expensive. I hope the Yggydrasil will be an exception!


----------



## lojay

Cheers to that! No. 1 advice to newcomers on this forum.


----------



## preproman

lojay said:


> I do, that's one reason why I went with the MSB over the AMR. I am aware that the likes of Bricasti will be more resolving but tonality is more important to me - and DACs that do both extraordinarily well will be very expensive. I hope the Yggydrasil will be an exception!


 

 The Bricasti M1 is a DAC I have my eye on and does both very well - IMO.  Also, IMO the MSB and the AMR fit in the same group "type" of DACs where the M1, MA-1, BADA2 fit in a different group "type" of DACs.


----------



## Sorrodje

I agree with the difficulty to match tonality and resolution.  My Totaldac A1 seems to do a fine job for that. Maybe not the last word though  but we're talking about expensive subtleties... Maybe chimeras...


----------



## MIKELAP

zephex said:


> How would these pair with a Little Dot Mk IV?


 
 I use the hd 800 with the LITTLEDOT MK3 among other amps i own with 6sn7 as power tubes with adapters and c3g's as driver wIth adapters for the price  its sounds very good  here's the link to the Littledot tube rolling guide thread and ask what they think of there MK4               http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide/9540#post_11503324


----------



## inseconds99

What dac/amp makes the hd800 sound more musical and less analytical for less then $500, I'm looking for a great bargain, or a stepping stone to higher end equipment in the future. Thank you in advance.


----------



## kapanak

inseconds99 said:


> What is dac/amp makes the hd800 more musical and less analytical for less then $500, I'm looking for a great bargain, or a stepping stone to higher end equipment in the future.




For amp, the Schiit Vali gives you that more warm and musical sound, but the Valhalla 2 is significantly better in terms of soundstage and resolution, and does add enough warmth to make it non-fatiguing. 

For DAC, use anything non-Sabre and good for your price range. Schiit Modi 2 Uber is an example. With the Schiit Wyrd (necessary for HD800 use).


----------



## Priidik

inseconds99 said:


> What is dac/amp makes the hd800 more musical and less analytical for less then $500, I'm looking for a great bargain, or a stepping stone to higher end equipment in the future.


 
 Thousand times suggested everywhere: Schiit Valhalla 2 or BH Crack.
 Vintage quality integrated amplifiers are pretty decent for this kind of money.


----------



## earthpeople

There's also a deal on the Bottlehead Crack right now where you can get the Speedball addition for only $20 more 
  
 http://bottlehead.com/product/crack-otl-headphone-amplifier-kit/


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I continue my quest to use my HD 800s as portable headphones, at least for wearing while doing work indoors at home.  This means I need a portable amp, and an earlier question elicted the Meier Audio Corda Quickstep as a great contender.
  
 But now that I started using the Sony PHA-1 portable DAC / amp I already had and am VERY Pleased with its sound as compared to my reference HDVD 800, I am looking for a combination portable DAC / amp, not just amp alone.
  
 Desired characteristics:
  

Better than the PHA-1 in sound quality on the Sennheiser HD 800 (that's gonna be HARD!)
DAC and amp
Direct Apple interface with 30-pin  iPod connector and 8-pin Lightening connector
Form factor making it stackable with iPod
Line In (for cases where I already have a well-produced analog signal.
  
 Candidates I've been looking at include the HiFI M8 iPhone version, the Fostex HP-P1, and... well... that's it.  Geek Out 1000 looks good but does not have iDevice input (as I understand it); Chord Hugo is probably great but unaffordable (I'm looking for around $400 - $700 new; used for less is OK).
  
 Any other suggestions?  Is there an iDevice / DAC version of the Meier Audio Corda Quickstep that was earlier recommended as an amp?
  
 Thanks!!


----------



## pearljam50000

I was about to get the Vali  based on recommendations on this thread , but this whole "warm and musical" think is making me rethink my decision.
 Is there any budget amp that has a neutral type of sound that does not color the sound at all?
 Quote:


kapanak said:


> For amp, the Schiit Vali gives you that more warm and musical sound, but the Valhalla 2 is significantly better in terms of soundstage and resolution, and does add enough warmth to make it non-fatiguing.
> 
> For DAC, use anything non-Sabre and good for your price range. Schiit Modi 2 Uber is an example. With the Schiit Wyrd (necessary for HD800 use).


----------



## pietcux

ruthieandjohn said:


> Any other suggestions?  Is there an iDevice / DAC version of the Meier Audio Corda Quickstep that was earlier recommended as an amp?
> 
> Thanks!!


 
 From Meier Audio there is not  such device. I use the Ipod Classic last Gen>LOD>Meier Stepdance>HD650/700 every day. This amp has such a nice grip on the headphones, and the Apple LOD is not that bad that I really still love the sound a lot. The Quickstep is the successor of the Stepdance/2Stepdance. Amp wise you will probably not get anything better in that class. And it was tested by several people on HeadFi that the Meiers can not only drive the HD800 but also make them shine.


----------



## kapanak

pearljam50000 said:


>


 

 Yep, Valhalla 2.


----------



## johnjen

pearljam50000 said:


>


 
 Remember your budget?
  
 The Vali fits, it is a good starter amp.
  
 These choices are a function of your budget limitation. 
  
 JJ


----------



## pearljam50000

Yes, Thanks, budget is very limited (150$)
 So i it's either the Vali or Magni 2 i guess.
 It's just i don't like colored sound, and the Vali is being described as "musical and warm"
 On the other hand not many people has tried the Magni 2 with the HD800 so i'm kind of stuck.


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> Yes, Thanks, budget is very limited (150$)
> So i it's either the Vali or Magni 2 i guess.
> 
> It's just i don't like colored sound, and the Vali is being described as "musical and warm"
> On the other hand not many people has tried the Magni 2 with the HD800 so i'm kind of stuck.




Buy used. Sell used.


----------



## thecrow

pearljam50000 said:


> Yes, Thanks, budget is very limited (150$)
> So i it's either the Vali or Magni 2 i guess.
> 
> It's just i don't like colored sound, and the Vali is being described as "musical and warm"
> On the other hand not many people has tried the Magni 2 with the HD800 so i'm kind of stuck.




On a budget myself til I get to listen to higher end amps and dacs, I recently bought an Odac and 02. I've mentioned this earlier in the thread. 

I'm not over sold on the odac for the hd800s but I've been pleasantly surprised with the O2. I plug my old rotel CD player (mid 1980s) into the O2 and my cds come up very well and alive. 

On a budget, I'd buy the 02 again for listening to my cds. Dac wise I don't hear much difference, if any between my fiio x5 dac and the odac. 

So I'm guessing, if you're happy with your dac the O2 may be worth considering it at that price. 

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## johnjen

pearljam50000 said:


> Yes, Thanks, budget is very limited (150$)
> So i it's either the Vali or Magni 2 i guess.
> It's just i don't like colored sound, and the Vali is being described as "musical and warm"
> On the other hand not many people has tried the Magni 2 with the HD800 so i'm kind of stuck.


 
 All playback systems color the sound in one way or another.
 The 'trick' is to find a 'color' that you like.
 As the degree of 'quality' of the associated gear goes up the degree of coloration usually is reduced, up to a point.
 So to expect a starter system to be uncolored is unrealistic.
  
 And remember you are trying to pair a SotA headphone with starter electronics, this adds an extra degree of complexity to your choices and to the limited range of amounts and types of coloration available.
  
 The Vali's colorations seem to counterbalance the 800's colorations in a compatible way which can work in your favor, as long as you like the end results.
 The only way for you to know this is to experience it 1st hand. 
  
 JJ


----------



## bearFNF

on the budget you posted I would highly recommend the vali.


----------



## amalgamist

pearljam50000 said:


> Yes, Thanks, budget is very limited (150$)
> So i it's either the Vali or Magni 2 i guess.
> It's just i don't like colored sound, and the Vali is being described as "musical and warm"
> On the other hand not many people has tried the Magni 2 with the HD800 so i'm kind of stuck.


 
  
 +1 for Vali loved the duo when I had HD800
  
 Never tried the Magni 2 but I did try it with the Magni 1 and the Vali was by far the better match.
  
 Or if you can, try to find a Matrix M-stage HPA-2 used. It is supposed to be even better than the Vali for the HD800.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Matrix-M-stage-HPA-2-USB-Headphone/dp/B00H4YUANM
  
 Or the HPA-1
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matrix-m-stage-Headphone-Amplifier-Amp-class-A-New-Ver-Ship-From-United-States-/131189280685?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e8b7d8fad


----------



## Rumiho

Hello, I will be most likely picking up a pair of HD800's within the next few weeks and am trying to determine some options for either individual dacs and amps to pair or a combo dac/amp. I currently have a Fostex HP-A4 which I use with my TH600's/Sony MDR-Z7, and have been told it should work alright with the HD800's, but would like to upgrade to better match them. What are some good options around the $1000 - max $1500 range (preferred balanced as I'm thinking of picking up a Draug V2 cable around the same time)?

 Any suggestions appreciated ^^


----------



## Zoom25

rumiho said:


> Hello, I will be most likely picking up a pair of HD800's within the next few weeks and am trying to determine some options for either individual dacs and amps to pair or a combo dac/amp. I currently have a Fostex HP-A4 which I use with my TH600's/Sony MDR-Z7, and have been told it should work alright with the HD800's, but would like to upgrade to better match them. What are some good options around the $1000 - max $1500 range (preferred balanced as I'm thinking of picking up a Draug V2 cable around the same time)?
> 
> Any suggestions appreciated ^^


 

 Dangerous Music Source with an upgraded LPSU. Around $1500 total. Will drive HD 800 and Denon's/Fostex beautifully. The DAC capabilities of the Source with LPSU puts it a class above the likes of Benchmark DAC2 and Mytek DSD 192, or so I've been told by a few members on different sites. Even at its stock, it's an absolute steal.


----------



## deuter

What amp from Cavalli is extremely detailed and suits hd800?


----------



## longbowbbs

deuter said:


> What amp from Cavalli is extremely detailed and suits hd800?


 
 The Liquid Gold, Liquid Crimson and Liquid Glass are all marvelous with the HD800's


----------



## deuter

longbowbbs said:


> The Liquid Gold, Liquid Crimson and Liquid Glass are all marvelous with the HD800's




Nice, what's the preferred though? 
Is this the best there is?


----------



## bearFNF

Liquid carbon was also very nice with my HD 800.


----------



## longbowbbs

deuter said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > The Liquid Gold, Liquid Crimson and Liquid Glass are all marvelous with the HD800's
> ...


 
 There is no "Best" amp for the HD800's. There are several incredible amps that each have their own particular character.Think of a range of high mountain tops . They are all incredible but each unique. None of them is the Best mountain top. yet each is a summit worth climbing.
  
 The Liquid Gold is the highest of the Cavalli "Peaks" as it were yet the hybrid Liquid Crimson is incredible with the HD800's as well. The Liquid Glass allows for a ton of tube rolling and adjusts to the specifics of the tubes used. Three great approaches. Three great results. 
  
 As to other "Best" HD800 amps, there are several. The Moon Neo 430HA, the Eddie Current Zana Deux SE, The Decware CSP3 are good examples. All make the HD800's sing. Pairing with a good DAC is essential for digital audio.
  
 Good luck with finding your personal mountaintop!


----------



## q2klepto

I'm thinking of consolidating my HE-400i and MSR7s for an HD800, but wont be changing my amp/dac for awhile - is the AudioGD NFB15 enough to drive the HD800 correctly? 
  
 Here's the power specs
  
3500mW/25 ohm 
1800mW/50 ohm
900mW/100 ohm
300mW/300 ohm
150mW/600 ohm
  
 With an output impendance of 2ohm. Looks like it can deliver 150mW at 600ohm..judging by  IF's impedance graphs, it peaks at 100hz and swings back down to 500hz, they needed 0.16mW for 90db
  
 Mmm  might not be enough for the HD800?


----------



## Mr Rick

q2klepto said:


> I'm thinking of consolidating my HE-400i and MSR7s for an HD800, but wont be changing my amp/dac for awhile - is the AudioGD NFB15 enough to drive the HD800 correctly?
> 
> Here's the power specs
> 
> ...


 
 The HD800s are 300 ohm cans are they not??


----------



## kapanak

q2klepto said:


> I'm thinking of consolidating my HE-400i and MSR7s for an HD800, but wont be changing my amp/dac for awhile - is the AudioGD NFB15 enough to drive the HD800 correctly?


 
 There is a difference between absolute control over the headphones and maximum power to drive them loudly.


----------



## deuter

longbowbbs said:


> There is no "Best" amp for the HD800's. There are several incredible amps that each have their own particular character.Think of a range of high mountain tops . They are all incredible but each unique. None of them is the Best mountain top. yet each is a summit worth climbing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Mountain top ? Cool, although I hate rock climbing  

Need to check out the Moon audio one too. Not sure whether Cavalli is the way to go given their extremely high prices, IMHO. 

I may be wrong, but looking for a totl solid state amp that can also run the fostex and the Grado.


----------



## HiFiChris

mr rick said:


> q2klepto said:
> 
> 
> > I'm thinking of consolidating my HE-400i and MSR7s for an HD800, but wont be changing my amp/dac for awhile - is the AudioGD NFB15 enough to drive the HD800 correctly?
> ...



They are, but at about 100 Hz they have an impedance peak of approx. 600 Ohms.


----------



## Mr Rick

hifichris said:


> They are, but at about 100 Hz they have an impedance peak of approx. 600 Ohms.


 
  
 I don't see where that will be a problem.


----------



## Mr Rick

I've been listening to my newly received HD800s for about an hour now. Driving them with a Schiit Valhalla 2. I must say the music is the most engaging I have ever heard it without the aid of sensory enhancing chemicals.


----------



## HiFiChris

mr rick said:


> hifichris said:
> 
> 
> > They are, but at about 100 Hz they have an impedance peak of approx. 600 Ohms.
> ...



No Problem at all, just saying.


----------



## MickeyVee

I don't find the Vali any warmer than my McIntosh, actually, maybe even less so. Just enough to take the edge off. No problems recommending the Vali.  Like others have said, the Valhalla or Crack would be the next step.  
 Quote:


pearljam50000 said:


>


----------



## spurxiii

Never thought I'd really enjoy trance music out of the HD800s. But with a little bit of EQ its making these a very versatile set of cans and loving them for EDM.


----------



## Rayzilla

Have any of you heard the HD800 running out of the (portable) Headstage Arrow dac/amp? I gave it a very brief listen a few weeks ago and I liked it enough that I ordered one (but still waiting for it). Will update here when I do get them in for a longer listen.
  
 I have also been thinking about getting the Audio GD NFB-28. It has balanced as well as single ended. Has anyone heard the two together?


----------



## billhickok

Dead serious post....the earpads on a brand new pair of HD800's are supposed to smell like a sweaty sneaker, right? Like if you put them directly up to your nostril and take a whiff...


----------



## Mr Rick

billhickok said:


> Dead serious post....the earpads on a brand new pair of HD800's are supposed to smell like a sweaty sneaker, right? Like if you put them directly up to your nostril and take a whiff...


 
 I got mine yesterday. They have a bit of a rubbery smell. Nothing seriously odorous about them.
  
  
 BTW, the sound fantastic.


----------



## MickeyVee

Ahhh, the new headphone smell.. gotta love it!
 Quote:


mr rick said:


> I got mine yesterday. They have a bit of a rubbery smell. Nothing seriously odorous about them.


----------



## Mr Rick

billhickok said:


> Dead serious post....the earpads on a brand new pair of HD800's are supposed to smell like a sweaty sneaker, right? Like if you put them directly up to your nostril and take a whiff...


 
  
 The fancy box that they come in is much more odorous.


----------



## Dopaminer

mr rick said:


> The fancy box that they come in is much more odorous.


 

 I agree.  Mine had a very strong, odd odor.  Not to mention that it looks like a square coffin.


----------



## Sorrodje

+1 : this box has a very strange and unpleasant smell.


----------



## MattTCG

Just ask MrSotchGuy about the smell.


----------



## Sorrodje

Yup I've read the story. Fortunately for me , I achieved to desodorize my HD800 much more easily lol


----------



## deuter

sorrodje said:


> +1 : this box has a very strange and unpleasant smell.




I agree, at first I thought - where the he'll has this headphone been?


----------



## Taowolf51

Yeah, my box has a pretty awful smell as well, and since the headphones were in the box for a long time the pads had the same smell. After a wash and some time to air out, the smell went away.
  
  


spurxiii said:


> Never thought I'd really enjoy trance music out of the HD800s. But with a little bit of EQ its making these a very versatile set of cans and loving them for EDM.


 
  
 Agreed, the HD800 technicalities play *so* well with electronic music. After a little tuning, they're easily one of the best electronic music headphones out there.


----------



## RingingEars

Great. now I'm going to have to get my box out of storage when I get home and smell it...


----------



## frix

Owning the HD800 for three years now. It still manages to impress me as long as I play a good record on it.
 I never thought about selling them.
  
 And I agree with the comment above.
 The majority of my listening is electronic music of all kinds and sorts.
 Also it's really a fantastic hp for the psybient, ambient side of things.


----------



## chuckwheat

So today I got to listen to the HD800s running off of the HDVD 800, and it was 0_0.
  
 Sheeeeeuuut. I'm gonna need to get a job. XD
  
 I like their crispiness. Sparkly and warm at the same time.
 The dude told me not to listen to them because I might not love my 650s after hearing the 800s. I still love my 650s just as much 
 But now that I've heard the 800s, I can understand what people are saying about them.
 First, the build quality is really nice, the design is both cool and modern-looking, and comfortable.
 I would describe the sound as balanced and complete. Full, with nothing sticking out unnecessarily. Flat, but definitely not boring.
  
 They were awesome, and now I know what I'll be looking forward to later in the hobby.


----------



## TonyNewman

chuckwheat said:


> So today I got to listen to the HD800s running off of the HDVD 800, and it was 0_0.
> 
> Sheeeeeuuut. I'm gonna need to get a job. XD
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome to the hobby. When you start buying headphone amps worth more than your car, then you know you are truly addicted 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 The HD800 is a very special beast when paired with an amp/DAC combination that it likes. I prefer mine modded, but that is a matter of taste. YMMV.


----------



## 62ohm

chuckwheat said:


> So today I got to listen to the HD800s running off of the HDVD 800, and it was 0_0.
> 
> Sheeeeeuuut. I'm gonna need to get a job. XD
> 
> ...


 
  
 Furthermore, the HD650 also sounds sublime with the HDVA 600 / HDVD 800. I've heard the HD650 with various amps, and before I listen to it with the HDVA 600 I did not care much for the HD650.
  
 The Senn Amp is what made me buy the HD650.. and to complement the HD800 of course.


----------



## Eee Pee

650 and 800 and good amp equals done.


----------



## 62ohm

eee pee said:


> 650 and 800 and good amp equals done.


 
  
 Do you like the 800 with the Mjolnir, or do you mostly use the Sonnett for it?


----------



## chuckwheat

62ohm said:


> Furthermore, the HD650 also sounds sublime with the HDVA 600 / HDVD 800. I've heard the HD650 with various amps, and before I listen to it with the HDVA 600 I did not care much for the HD650.
> 
> The Senn Amp is what made me buy the HD650.. and to complement the HD800 of course.


 
 I'd gladly shell out 1500 bucks for the hdva 600, but I'm broke XD
  
 I'm enjoying the 650s plenty well so far on the little schiit stack.
 But i'll definitely try the 650s with the hdva and hdvd when i can borrow them again.


----------



## Eee Pee

I don't mind it on the Mjolnir like some people do, but my sources aren't thousands of dollars of microscopes.  I'm too simple for way analytical analysis. I do have a general grasp of the fact I think it's not the right tonal balance for me though.  So my 650s get a way lot more head time.  And I'm seriously surprised how good the 650s can be.


----------



## HiFiChris

@chuckwheat : If you could transfer your Skyrim gold-money to real money, you could buy the HD 800 very soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Just kidding, try to find things at your home that are not in use anymore and begin to sell them, even if their value is only 10$ or even lower.  I assume you are still in school (correct me if I'm wrong), so you could get the rest of the money you need with a holiday job or side job.


----------



## uchihaitachi

Just got the HD800, it's the best reproduction of piano sound I have ever heard. Mind blown.


----------



## pearljam50000

uchihaitachi said:


> Just got the HD800, it's the best reproduction of piano sound I have ever heard. Mind blown.


 
 OMG
 Even when compared to your Focal speakers?


----------



## thecrow

uchihaitachi said:


> Just got the HD800, it's the best reproduction of piano sound I have ever heard. Mind blown.




Ehhhh. They're alright I guess.


----------



## Mr Rick

eee pee said:


> I don't mind it on the Mjolnir like some people do, but my sources aren't thousands of dollars of microscopes.  I'm too simple for way analytical analysis. I do have a general grasp of the fact I think it's not the right tonal balance for me though.  So my 650s get a way lot more head time.  And I'm seriously surprised how good the 650s can be.


 
  
 For me, my Valhalla 2 does take a bit of the edge off the HD800s, but I actually prefer the Asgard 2. It puts the edge back. 
  
 I have the Mojo on order. I'm waiting impatiently.


----------



## uchihaitachi

pearljam50000 said:


> OMG
> Even when compared to your Focal speakers?


 
 I think so, especially all the minutiae of detail comes to life.... I can even make out the pedalling...


----------



## shabta

uchihaitachi said:


> Just got the HD800, it's the best reproduction of piano sound I have ever heard. Mind blown.


 
 +1 It excels at piano reproduction.


pearljam50000 said:


> OMG
> Even when compared to your Focal speakers?


 
 Some of the focals have an extraordinarily beautiful high-end. But the problem is that unless your room is treated, you get the room sound intermixed with the ambient sounds of the recording. So depending on the room that the speakers are placed in, the HD800 could easily be better.


----------



## uchihaitachi

shabta said:


> +1 It excels at piano reproduction.
> Some of the focals have an extraordinarily beautiful high-end. But the problem is that unless your room is treated, you get the room sound intermixed with the ambient sounds of the recording. So depending on the room that the speakers are placed in, the HD800 could easily be better.


 
 I have a treated room back in Korea, but for sure the sound signature of the Focal speakers is similar to the HD800, the never ending treble extension...


----------



## shabta

Just curious, what recordings did you listen too? I am always on the lookout for reference piano music recommendations for listening on the HD800s.


----------



## Sorrodje

shabta said:


> Just curious, what recordings did you listen too? I am always on the lookout for reference piano music recommendations for listening on the HD800s.


 
  
 Maybe you should  subscribe to http://www.head-fi.org/t/626563/best-classical-recordings-ever/3375#post_11488351   .. good for our music libraries, a bit less for our wallets.


----------



## wink

Or, here:-
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/763098/naxos#post_11514769


----------



## shabta

LOL! Everything about this place is good for our music bad for our wallets...


----------



## wink

Wallets were meant to be abused...


----------



## uchihaitachi

shabta said:


> Just curious, what recordings did you listen too? I am always on the lookout for reference piano music recommendations for listening on the HD800s.


 
 Krystian Zimerman's recordings are always well mastered! I was listening to his Chopin Ballades.


----------



## icebear

uchihaitachi said:


> Just got the HD800, it's the best reproduction of piano sound I have ever heard. Mind blown.


 
  
  


uchihaitachi said:


> I think so, especially all the minutiae of detail comes to life.... I can even make out the pedalling...


 
  
 There is an old thread on Rachmaninov's 3rd where you also have posted but that was 2013...commenting that you did not like Argerich's interpretation.
 I guess you can play it yourself and follow the score closely.
  
 I discovered this recording :
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/47019/rachmaninoffs-3rd-piano-concerto/30#post_11476739
 I am not a musician and can't judge if she is not following the score exactely. A few "liberties" are mentioned in the booklet.
 I am not bothered by that, I simply indulge in this recording expecially with the HD800.
  
 Btw where do you have all your Focals set up? Do you have a former factory space for your rig?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 And of course : Congrats to your new HD800


----------



## uchihaitachi

icebear said:


> There is an old thread on Rachmaninov's 3rd where you also have posted but that was 2013...commenting that you did not like Argerich's interpretation.
> I guess you can play it yourself and follow the score closely.
> 
> I discovered this recording :
> ...


 
 I have actually performed the Rach 3, one at the end of College recital with a second piano and one with a full orchestra in Korea. The only reason I don't like her performance is that she uses the piece especially in the third movement as just a vehicle to show off her technical prowess. Which admittedly is astonishing (especially as it's live), but I think she has so much more on offer than that. 
  
 You should check out Leif Ove Andsnes' recording which was also done live, incredibly musical and immaculate (not a single wrong note) from start to end!
  
 Focals aren't actually mine but my father's. He has a studio/small concert hall in Korea as he is a music and audio maniac, and Focal also use the venue to market their products. Unfortunately, not many interested buyers XD


----------



## uchihaitachi




----------



## icebear

uchihaitachi said:


> ...
> 
> You should check out Leif Ove Andsnes' recording which was also done live, incredibly musical and immaculate (not a single wrong note) from start to end!
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for the quick response. I will check out Leif Ove's recording !


----------



## shabta

uchihaitachi said:


> You should check out Leif Ove Andsnes' recording which was also done live, incredibly musical and immaculate (not a single wrong note) from start to end!


 
 I have the one he did with the Berlin Philharmonic. It also sounds fab on the HD800s. He is technically amazing.


----------



## uchihaitachi

shabta said:


> I have the one he did with the Berlin Philharmonic. It also sounds fab on the HD800s. He is technically amazing.


 
 Isn't that 1 & 2?
  
 I heard him play the Emperor in London last year. It was fantastic!


----------



## shabta

He also recorded 3&4 it was released separately. 

Last week a friend was here and I used the Leif Ove Andsnes hi-res recording of the Emperor for an HD80p demo. Blew him away both sound and performance.


----------



## knowhatimean

shabta said:


> He also recorded 3&4 it was released separately.
> 
> Last week a friend was here and I used the Leif Ove Andsnes hi-res recording of the Emperor for an HD80p demo. Blew him away both sound and performance.


 
 Is that on EMI ?
  
 The "Emperor" is one of those pieces you can never have enough versions of ! as long as the pianist doesn't let the conductor dictate the pace at which the addagio is taken the "version" normally works for me !
  
 I think it should be a requirement that all concert artists familiarize themselves with the Kempf / Leitner "Emperor" as the pinnacle
 of correctly playing this movement for capturing the essence of Beethoven's writing !
  
 (Wow, I didn't notice someone mentioning the Rachmaninoff 3rd with Berglund; I'll have to look these recordings up on Arkiv Music)


----------



## shabta

The Rachmaninov is on EMI, the Beethoven on Sony


----------



## ruthieandjohn

ruthieandjohn said:


> I continue my quest to use my HD 800s as portable headphones, at least for wearing while doing work indoors at home.  This means I need a portable amp, and an earlier question elicted the Meier Audio Corda Quickstep as a great contender.
> But now that I started using the Sony PHA-1 portable DAC / amp I already had and am VERY Pleased with its sound as compared to my reference HDVD 800, I am looking for a combination portable DAC / amp, not just amp alone.
> Desired characteristics:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
*PORTABLE iDEVICE DAC/AMP FOR HD 800*
  
 OK... five days of research are leading me to answer my own question:
  
 Following table compiles the results of my research.  Columns are explained as follows:

*Manufacturer:  *Company building the device
*Model:*  Model name of the device
*iPod?: *Does device connect directly to either 30-pin of older iPods or 8-pin of newer (if so, "Y"), or  is it a general USB input that requires the Apple Camera Cable Kit (CCK) (if so, "CCK")
*Battery?* Does device have a battery inside that is charged via USB ("Y"), or does it rely on USB power (limiting its use from an iDevice, due to overloading its connector power ("N)?
*Output imp (ohms*):  What is the output impedance, if provided (in ohms)?
*Output power, sum 2 channels (at ohms):  *What is the listed output power (for load of impedance of ohms listed in parentheses)?  In milliwatts, sum of both channels.
*Power into 300 ohms, 2 ch (est if in parens):  *What is the output power into the nominal 300 ohms of the HD 800 headphone (may be extrapolated or computed, if spec sheet does not specifically say... such estimates are enclosed in parentheses, while stated power at 300 ohms is shown without parentheses)
*Trusted reports for*:  Someone trustworthy (often, but not always, jude in his 2014 Gift Guide Portable DAC/Amp section) say the DAC/amp works with specific difficult headphones (usu. HD 800, sometimes HE-6 as well)
*Size (mm*):  Listed in decreasing order of dimension, longest dimension first
*Weight (gr):   *When given
*Price: *From amazon.com or manufacturer website, USD 
 
 So here is the table.  I limited this to portable DAC/amp combinations.
  
*Portable DAC/Amps Compatible with iDevice (iPod, etc.) and Sennheiser HD 800*
  

*Manufacturer*​*Model*​*iPod?*​*Battery?*​*Output imp (ohms)*​*Output power, sum 2 channels (at ohms)*​*Power into 300 ohms, 2 ch (est if in parens)*​*Trusted reports for*​*Size (mm)*​*Weight (gr)*​*Price*​CEntrance​HiFi M8​Y​Y​1, 2 11​1,400 mW (8 ohm)​166​HD 800​127x82x33​ ​$699​CEntrance​DACPort​CCK​N​ ​1,500 max​(166)​ ​114x25x25​ ​$250​Aurender​Flow​Y​Y​0.06​380 (32)​174​HD 800​137x80x28​450​$1,295​Chord​Hugo​Y​Y​0.075​700 (8)​140​HD 800​132x100x20​400​$2,500​iFi Audio​Micro iDSD​CCK​Y​<1​4,000​(250)​HD 800, HE-6​177x67x28​310​$500​Sony​PHA-1​Y​Y​10​350 (8)​52​ ​130x67x28​220​$250​Sony​PHA-1A​Y​Y​ ​296 (8)​33​ ​109x62x19​145​$300​Sony​PHA-2​Y​Y​ ​330 (8);180 (32)​50​ ​140x68x29​270​$409​Sony​PHA-3​Y​Y​ ​640 (32 ohm balanced)​(150)​NOT for HD800​141x80x29​300​$999​JDS Labs​CSD​CCK​Y​0.62​4.146 V (600)​(50)​ ​100x62x14​116​$249​Fostex​HP-P1​Y​Y​ ​160​(160)​ ​130x75x25​260​$450​iQube​V5​CCK​Y​<0.1​160 (16); 80 (32); 12 (200)​(8)​NOT for HD800​126x70x23​190​$699​LH Labs​GeekOut1000​CCK​N​.47, 4.7​1000 (16)​(140)​HD 800 (PTAF)​78x35x13​36​$299​FurutechADL​X1​Y​Y​ ​60 (16)​36​ ​118x68x17​147​$479​HeadAmp​Pico USB​CCK​Y​<1​700 (32)​(340)​"the difficult"​70x51x20​ ​$468​Leckerton​UHA-6S.MKII​CCK​Y​<0.5​55(32)[8610 op amp];140(32)[8620]​40 (either op amp)​ ​106x70x20​170​$279​Headstage​Arrow​CCK​Y​ ​"Max 10 V P-to-P"​ ​ ​98x56x8.5​100​$399​Oppo​HA-2​Y​Y​0.5​300 (16); 220 (32), 30 (300)​30​HD 800​157x68x12​175​$299​Cypher Labs​Theorem 720​Y​Y​< 1​205 (32); 320 (50)​68​ ​120x64x29​300​$699​
  
 I have the PHA-1, and I have compared its sound driving my HD 800s to the sound of my Sennheiser HDVD 800 amp, one of the best suited for the Sennheiser HD 800s.
  
 The sound of the two is indistinguishable, at least to me.  Bass, mids, treble, and transparency are the same.  The only difference is in the soundstage, which for the HDVD 800 amp is larger with more precise positioning of instruments than the Sony PHA-1.


----------



## uchihaitachi

How about the immaculately transparent Leckerton Uha 6s mkii


----------



## uchihaitachi

[quote name="uchihaitachi" url="/t/65051

 
 
 
0/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/18120#post_11518386"]How about the immaculately transparent Leckerton Uha 6s mkii and just tun it out of LOD[/quote]


----------



## Sorrodje

uchihaitachi said:


> How about the immaculately transparent Leckerton Uha 6s mkii


 
  
 This one is really on my radar. I rarely see a so unanimely praised product.


----------



## uchihaitachi

The designer is a serious engineer with a properly analysed specs sheet for all his products. What's there not to drool over


----------



## ruthieandjohn

uchihaitachi said:


> How about the immaculately transparent Leckerton Uha 6s mkii



Thanks for the suggestion! I am sure there are several that I overlooked. I'll take a look and add it as appropriate. Thanks. (Others? Glad to add what I missed)

EDIT (10 min later): Added the Leckerton to the table (last row).


----------



## shabta

I just received a Icon Audio HP8 mkii amp. Running it all day and now listening. Great match for the HD800. Need a few days before I start knowing what I really think but so far, so good.


----------



## Rayzilla

How about the Headstage Arrow?

I had a very brief test with my MB Air and HD-800. Too brief that I would not feel too comfortable to describe here but it accomplished what I wanted out of it that I have put in an order and now waiting for the next version that is about to be produced.

It is super compact and it packs a lot of options for its size. It is both a dac and an amp.

I will post my thoughts when I receive it but it will be a few weeks still.


----------



## Sorrodje

shabta said:


> I just received a Icon Audio HP8 mkii amp. Running it all day and now listening. Great match for the HD800. Need a few days before I start knowing what I really think but so far, so good.


 
  
 what are differences against you Leben ?


----------



## shabta

sorrodje said:


> what are differences against you Leben ?


 
 I probably need more time than an evening to do it justice. But, with that caveat in mind...
  
 I think the Leben is a better speaker amp than an amp to drive the HD800.
  
 What is good about the Leben is a heavenly high-end. Violins in particular just so smooth and natural sounding. But the Leben bass is just a little short of tightly controlled.
  
 The Icon is less tubey sounding than the Leben in a really good way. So far I think it has a lot of what I like about a solid state amps resolving power with the a slightly euphonic character that is definitely pleasing. This is what most of us are looking for when we pair a tube amp with an HD800. Also the noise floor is way better than the Leben. I bet if I saw the measurements, it has a greater S/N ratio than the Leben. Its got a pretty black background. So I think at first blush, With the Icon I have more of what I miss about solid state than I get with the Leben, with a still beautiful top end. 
  
 More to come...


----------



## Blackmore

What tubes Icon come with? Is it new or used?
  
 THX
  
  
 Quote:


shabta said:


> I probably need more time than an evening to do it justice. But, with that caveat in mind...
> 
> I think the Leben is a better speaker amp than an amp to drive the HD800.
> 
> ...


----------



## shabta

It's new. The 2014 version. It comes with new Tungsol 6sn7 2x and one russian (i think)  ECC83.


----------



## Blackmore

Do you have any NOS to roll? Interesting amp, especially cos of SET design and mega options with tube rolling. Personally, I would use stock tubes for burn in period, say 100 hours, but then, buy buy and put some nice NOS in and enjoy
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Have you auditioned this amp, before you bought?
  
 Keep us posting please.
  
 THX
  
 Quote:


shabta said:


> It's new. The 2014 version. It comes with new Tungsol 6sn7 2x and one russian (i think)  ECC83.


----------



## shabta

I heard an earlier version. I saw a dealer online who was selling his last one new for a used price. So I nabbed it thinking my downside was limited. I want to try some NOS, but I don't have the right tubes yet. Was also thinking of the Shanguang CV181...


----------



## longbowbbs

The Studio Six amp from ALO Audio is a sweet pairing with the HD800's!


----------



## olor1n

Still in the honeymoon phase at the moment but I'm really digging the recent changes to my rig (Ragnarok and Draug v2) -
  

  
  
 I was quite content with the balance I'd stuck with the Mjolnir and NAD M51 but the Ragnarok presents a more significant step up than what I'd anticipated.
  
 Already loved the Mjolnir's low end but there is body and a tactile quality through the Ragnarok that is reminiscent of the way air moves within the cups when listening to an Audeze's thunderous bass. That's not to say the Ragnarok introduces this particular colouration. Bass isn't overbearing when it needs to be subdued. There's control and lower registers are rendered with great clarity. When required though, the bottom end can manifest into a force. It's quite a thing to hear. I'd never describe the HD800 as bass anaemic, but I can understand other preferences for bass that's more upfront and present at all times. The HD800 doesn't provide this colouration as many here know. What it renders instead is bass as is, and through the Ragnarok that bass is always taut and distinct and drops to subterrean depths when required.
  
 There's a smoothness to the Ragnarok's presentation that I never expected to hear from a solid state component. This smoothness does not blunt leading edges though, nor does it smother detail. The Ragnarok is a wonderfully resolving amp. Micro-details swim around the headstage, sparking and fading with deft micro-dynamic shifts. There is a lot going on, but it's a chorus that draws you in, rather than a confused and disorientating cacophony.
  
 All this detail is defined within a coherent soundstage. It's not cavernous nor overly intimate. It adjusts according to material. Elements occupy their own space and are placed where you'd expect to hear them. There's no attempt at emulating a holographic DSP, nor is there an odd shape to the soundstage that draws attention to itself (oblong, in the case of the Mjolnir with its more compressed centre stage). I don't notice the soundstage and that to me, is a plus. It's coherent, there's precise placement, and there are no irritating flaws to detract from the music.
  
 An extra note on the Ragnarok's resolving ability though. Some have noted that this component is an excellent tool for "dac rolling". Merely changing between my M51's usb, optical and hdmi inputs shows how revealing the Ragnarok is. When coupled with the microscopic lens of the HD800 this can be  a roadmap to disappointment for those who don't place much stock in the quality of their upstream components.
  
 Some feel the need to mould the HD800 to their preferences. That's cool. My HD800 is un-modded. I'm not one to filter the material fed to this headphone via coloured components upstream. The Ragnarok allows me to hear the HD800 as is. A blessing and (sometimes) a curse, but I dig it.


----------



## pearljam50000

I have been extremely careful with my HD800 , I never put them on a hard surface , I am afraid to even touch them!
Its just that psychologicaly plastic feels more fragile then metal for example.
How cautious are you people with your HD800's?


----------



## Eee Pee

Mine have hit the floor a few times, there's paint chips all over and one of the mesh screens has a dent.


----------



## Rumiho

Can anyone compare the pairing with the HD 800 of the Black Dragon v2 cable and Draug V2 (both balanced) ? Also is the "premium HD 800" Black Dragon v2 worth the $200 or so difference in price from the base Black Dragon v2?.


----------



## kapanak

rumiho said:


> Can anyone compare the pairing with the HD 800 of the Black Dragon v2 cable and Draug V2 (both balanced) ? Also is the "premium HD 800" Black Dragon v2 worth the $200 or so difference in price from the base Black Dragon v2?.




Cables don't make a difference  

But from an aesthetic and ergonomic perspective, and the fact that the Draug has better conductors and actually has effort put into its construction (and is even cheaper than the Sennheiser cable), plus all the great customization options for colour, Y splitter (the wood ones with gold filling or red filling highly recommended), I'd give my money to Draug (and I have).


----------



## Rumiho

kapanak said:


> Cables don't make a difference
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Fair, and in that case I think I'll go with the Draug as well, love the look.


----------



## wink

Quote:kapanak 





> Cables don't make a difference


 
 Only to those with less than optimal hearing.
  
 Just because someone doesn't detect a difference does NOT mean there is no difference.


----------



## akhyar

wink said:


> Only to those with less than optimal hearing.
> 
> Just because someone doesn't detect a difference does NOT mean there is no difference.




Agree with you.
On HD800, with transparent amp and DAC, with well recorded music, I can hear the difference between pure copper cable vs stock SPC cable.


----------



## Taowolf51

pearljam50000 said:


> I have been extremely careful with my HD800 , I never put them on a hard surface , I am afraid to even touch them!
> Its just that psychologicaly plastic feels more fragile then metal for example.
> How cautious are you people with your HD800's?


 
  
 Honestly, good plastic would be less resistant to damage than something like aluminum.
  
 The HD800's are made with Leona plastic and have heavy duty joints, they're pretty durable


----------



## akhyar

pearljam50000 said:


> I have been extremely careful with my HD800 , I never put them on a hard surface , I am afraid to even touch them!
> Its just that psychologicaly plastic feels more fragile then metal for example.
> How cautious are you people with your HD800's?




My first HD800 had some paint chips and scratches on the edges and corners, but it did survived frequent cable changing and loud volume. If you want to put it in a hard surface, just put it down gently without any force.
Touching the metal grille will only leave some finger print smudges that can be a PITA to clean, so unless you touch the, with your keys or metal, you don't have to worry much.


----------



## Rumiho

wink said:


> Only to those with less than optimal hearing.
> 
> Just because someone doesn't detect a difference does NOT mean there is no difference.


 
  
  


akhyar said:


> Agree with you.
> On HD800, with transparent amp and DAC, with well recorded music, I can hear the difference between pure copper cable vs stock SPC cable.


 
  
 Alright, which do you prefer of the cables listed in my original question or if you do not use either what cable company do you prefer and why?


----------



## Sorrodje

pearljam50000 said:


> I have been extremely careful with my HD800 , I never put them on a hard surface , I am afraid to even touch them!
> Its just that psychologicaly plastic feels more fragile then metal for example.
> How cautious are you people with your HD800's?


 
  
 I use my HD800 as any other headphone and it falled many times on the floor. The only shortcoming is the stock paint that is really fragile .


----------



## drez

Well I am pretty cautious with mine, but scratched it when taking a connector out.  The need to be babied to stay in pristine condition.


----------



## uchihaitachi

Always wondered why the connectors are so reluctant to come out....


----------



## shabta

uchihaitachi said:


> Always wondered why the connectors are so reluctant to come out....


 
 Over time they come out more easily. But the first few times, watch out!


----------



## uchihaitachi

a cappella harmony groups sound amazing on the hd800


----------



## shabta

uchihaitachi said:


> a cappella harmony groups sound amazing on the hd800


 
 As does Polyphonic plainchant. I was listening to Polyphonies oubliées - Ensemble Gilles Binchois all morning....


----------



## uchihaitachi

I was listening to Spem in Alium, it was spectacular!


----------



## preproman

pearljam50000 said:


> I have been extremely careful with my HD800 , I never put them on a hard surface , I am afraid to even touch them!
> Its just that psychologicaly plastic feels more fragile then metal for example.
> How cautious are you people with your HD800's?


 

 If you really like the stock color of the HD800s,  or if you want a different color,  either way   http://www.colorware.com/p-289-sennheiser-hd-800.aspx  is the way to go.  I'm telling you.  This will give your HD800s a way longer ( aesthetically pleasing) life.  It's well worth the little bit of money they charge.  Heck, they don't charge a dime over MSRP if you buy directly from them.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

preproman said:


> If you really like the stock color of the HD800s,  or if you want a different color,  either way   http://www.colorware.com/p-289-sennheiser-hd-800.aspx  is the way to go.  I'm telling you.  This will give your HD800s a way longer ( aesthetically pleasing) life.  It's well worth the little bit of money they charge.  Heck, they don't charge a dime over MSRP if you buy directly from them.



Ditto on the Colorware... They use an automotive paint that is more chip resistant than the native HD 800 coating. When I got mine last July, they added $200 to the cost for color, but would have charged $400 or $500 if I'd sent mine in rather than buy them, colored to my design, from Colorware directly. Colorware is an authorized Sennheiser distributor. You get both the Sennheiser 2 year guarantee and Colorware's own one year guarantee on the custom color. 

Both my HD 800 and my matching colored HDVD 800 amp look in perfect condition, and I am not particularly coddling to either.


----------



## akhyar

rumiho said:


> Alright, which do you prefer of the cables listed in my original question or if you do not use either what cable company do you prefer and why?




Sorry, have no experienced with any of the cables you mentioned.
For me, I'm using WyWires Red cable, and prefer the SQ over the stock cable.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I've added both the Headstage Arrow 5TXZ and the Oppo HA-2 DAC/amp to the table of portable DAC/amps having iPhone compatibility ad some hope of driving the Sennheiser HD 800, here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/18120#post_11517882
  
 Could not find anyone stating their success in using either of these for the HD 800... anyone have any experience?  Thanks!


----------



## Rumiho

akhyar said:


> Sorry, have no experienced with any of the cables you mentioned.
> For me, I'm using WyWires Red cable, and prefer the SQ over the stock cable.


 
 Thanks for the feedback, will check WyWires out.


----------



## pearljam50000

What makes the most impact on HD800's sound, DAC or amp?


----------



## deuter

pearljam50000 said:


> What makes the most impact on HD800's sound, DAC or amp?




In case of hd800, it's revealing actually too revealing. 

What this means is dac quality is essential, bad dac - bad sound. 

As for amp you need to make sure it's not too sterile just so the treble doesn't sound harsh.


----------



## TonyNewman

deuter said:


> ...
> What this means is dac quality is essential, bad dac - bad sound.
> 
> As for amp you need to make sure it's not too sterile just so the treble doesn't sound harsh.


 
 +1. A high quality amp+DAC combination that is a little warm of neutral does the job nicely.
  
 Vega + 430HA or WA5 works for me. There are plenty of other options out there. Just steer well away from anything in bright/neutral category.


----------



## MIKELAP

pearljam50000 said:


> I have been extremely careful with my HD800 , I never put them on a hard surface , I am afraid to even touch them!
> Its just that psychologicaly plastic feels more fragile then metal for example.
> How cautious are you people with your HD800's?


 
 I always put them on a stand and still manage to get a couple very small nicks on them ,i guess there's to many sharp edges very easy to nick the paint


----------



## RUMAY408

Quick impression from the Music City Meet:
  
 Schiit Yggdrasil>Woo Audio WA5>HD800
  
 The HD800 has bass and detail that is missing from lesser setups, good god! 
  
 Thank you Mr. Speakers!


----------



## shabta

pearljam50000 said:


> What makes the most impact on HD800's sound, DAC or amp?


 
 Since most modern Dacs are all just a shade of neutral, the biggest issue is whether you have enough power/voltage swing for the HD800s. Of course a better Dac is better, but with out a decent amp it really doesn't matter what the Dac does or doesn't do. In other words with a good amp and a modern DAC you will still be able to derive real pleasure out of your HD800. But with an unsuitable amp it won't matter how good your DAC is...


----------



## deuter

shabta said:


> Since most modern Dacs are all just a shade of neutral, the biggest issue is whether you have enough power/voltage swing for the HD800s. Of course a better Dac is better, but with out a decent amp it really doesn't matter what the Dac does or doesn't do. In other words with a good amp and a modern DAC you will still be able to derive real pleasure out of your HD800. But with an unsuitable amp it won't matter how good your DAC is...




It's funny how the hd800 is so fine performing with the Bakoon hda 5210 mk3. 
Even though the Bakoon is a current driven amp.


----------



## ubs28

How would a speaker amp work with the HD800 considering it should have plenty of power to drive the HD800 similar to what people do with the Hifiman HE-6?


----------



## knowhatimean

deuter said:


> It's funny how the hd800 is so fine performing with the Bakoon hda 5210 mk3.
> Even though the Bakoon is a current driven amp.


 
 Actually, there are some who seem to think that current driven amps are the way to go with the HD800.
  
 I really don't see "Having enough power" to drive these headphones as an issue, unless you're talking about using portable amps !
  
 (I can't say if this is true if you listen at Headbanger levels however, but I don't know why you would use these headphones to listen at levels that obliterate any available fine detail that you paid a premium price so you could hear that detail even if they do have a "Techno" look to them)


----------



## Sorrodje

ubs28 said:


> How would a speaker amp work with the HD800 considering it should have plenty of power to drive the HD800 similar to what people do with the Hifiman HE-6?


 
  
  
 IMO , driving the HE-6 is inded problematic in term of raw power. I' don't think the HD800 shares the same needs.  BTW I just tried with my SMSL SA-50 + HE-adapter . Sounds OK but with a serious hum.  I stopped the experience.  With the HE5LE , the result is really good though.


----------



## kothganesh

Sorro: be very careful with the HFM or similar adapters. One wrong connection and the amp will short.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I added the Cypher Labs Theorem 720 DAC (and amp) to my table of iDevice-compatible portable DAC/amps with power sufficient for HD 800, here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/18120#post_11517882


----------



## Sorrodje

kothganesh said:


> Sorro: be very careful with the HFM or similar adapters. One wrong connection and the amp will short.


 
  
 Where's the risk ? For the amp or the headphone ?


----------



## kothganesh

My cousin interchanged the positive and the negative and the amp shorted.


----------



## Sorrodje

Ah ah . i take care to do no mistake. Fortunately my SMSL SA-50 is a really cheap ( but apparently good)  T-amp


----------



## uchihaitachi

Are hd800 with serial number starting with 3 any different in SQ than the earlier numbers?


----------



## wink

All headphones sound a little different.
  
 Manufacturer quality control, earpad wear, position on ear, etc all play a part.


----------



## uchihaitachi

wink said:


> All headphones sound a little different.
> 
> Manufacturer quality control, earpad wear, position on ear, etc all play a part.


 
 Of course... My question was whether the different serial numbered line ups have systematic changes implemented in them?


----------



## wink

If Sennheiser is true to form, then there most probably is a refinement program in place.
  
 If you look at the different individual graphs available from Sennheiser, then it is apparent that variations in production is the biggest factor.


----------



## shabta

wink said:


> If Sennheiser is true to form, then there most probably is a refinement program in place.
> 
> If you look at the different individual graphs available from Sennheiser, then it is apparent that variations in production is the biggest factor.


 
 In other words, judging from the graphs, there is no discernible sonic change of later vs. earlier models.


----------



## uchihaitachi

shabta said:


> In other words, judging from the graphs, there is no discernible sonic change of later vs. earlier models.




Finally a straightforward concise answer.

Thank you!


----------



## wink

If you look at the HD800 graph thread, then my answer is no. Just manufacturer variation.
  
 Some have the 6KHz peak, some have a broeader plateau around 6Khz, some have no 6Khz peak.
  
 Ther have been some here that have bought and sold the HD800 2 or 3 times before they found one they liked.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Based on information just received from CEntrance, I updated the power for the CEntrance HiFi M8 driving the Sennheiser HD 800 on my table of iDevice-friendly portable DAC/amps with prospect of driving the HD 800, here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/18120#post_11517882
  
 Looks like the HiFi M8 can driving the HD 800 at 83 mW per channel, total of 168 mW, producing a sound pressure level of 116 dB.  More than adequate.
  
 Can't wait till mine arrives!


----------



## inseconds99

Can anyone explain as to why headroom has hd800 and hd800 (2013's) with 2 way different frequency response graphs? I was trying to compare graphs from the hd700 and hd650 to the 800's and didn't know which one would be the correct one to look at if say I bought the 800's tomorrow.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

inseconds99 said:


> Can anyone explain as to why headroom has hd800 and hd800 (2013's) with 2 way different frequency response graphs? I was trying to compare graphs from the hd700 and hd650 to the 800's and didn't know which one would be the correct one to look at if say I bought the 800's tomorrow.


 
 One is labeled HD 800 2013 and one is labeled HD 800 balanced.
  
 I think the first is for single-ended use (i..e., with the cable that Sennheiser provides with the headphone) and the second is for a balanced cable, sold separately by Sennheiser for about $350, and also requiring an amp with a balanced output such as the Sennheiser HDVD 800.


----------



## Mr Rick

ruthieandjohn said:


> One is labeled HD 800 2013 and one is labeled HD 800 balanced.
> 
> I think the first is for single-ended use (i..e., with the cable that Sennheiser provides with the headphone) and the second is for a balanced cable, sold separately by Sennheiser for about $350, and also requiring an amp with a balanced output such as the Sennheiser HDVD 800.


 
 Actually there are three. 
  
  
 .


----------



## zilch0md

Hi kayandjohn!
  



Spoiler: kayandjohn's diligent quest to go portable with the HD800



Quote:


ruthieandjohn said:


> *PORTABLE iDEVICE DAC/AMP FOR HD 800*
> 
> OK... five days of research are leading me to answer my own question:
> 
> ...


 
  
  


ruthieandjohn said:


> I've added both the Headstage Arrow 5TXZ and the Oppo HA-2 DAC/amp to the table of portable DAC/amps having iPhone compatibility ad some hope of driving the Sennheiser HD 800, here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/18120#post_11517882
> 
> Could not find anyone stating their success in using either of these for the HD 800... anyone have any experience?  Thanks!


 
  
  


ruthieandjohn said:


> Based on information just received from CEntrance, I updated the power for the CEntrance HiFi M8 driving the Sennheiser HD 800 on my table of iDevice-friendly portable DAC/amps with prospect of driving the HD 800, here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/18120#post_11517882
> 
> Looks like the HiFi M8 can driving the HD 800 at 83 mW, producing a sound pressure level of 116 dB.  More than adequate.
> 
> Can't wait till mine arrives!


 
  


  
 It looks as if you've ordered the HiFi-M8, with which I have no experience, but I'm a big fan of CEntrance.
  
 I found myself reading the 71 posts when I came back to this thread this evening, and I kid you not when I say that I already had it in mind to report that* I'm really enjoying my HD800 with the OPPO HA-2.* Through all of my OPPO HA-2 beta testing, across three prototypes, I had only once tried the HD800 with the HA-2, not really giving it a chance.  
  
 Remarkably, about two weeks ago, I decided to try the HA-2 with the HD800 for only one reason - the HA-2's "Bass+" feature - the bass boost feature that the Beta team had successfully encouraged OPPO to both widen and soften. But on first hearing the Bass+ engaged, I didn't like it with the HD800 - in fact, I don't really like it with any headphones I've tried. (I actually wish it was weaker still.)  The revelation, however, came with just spending a lot of time listening to Tidal HiFi via USB from my laptop to the HA-2 > HD800 and later, with Tidal > iPad Mini > OPPO HA-2 > HD800.  
  
_*It's ridiculous how good this sounds, given that the HA-2 can only put out 30 mW into 300-Ohms.*_ I'm not even using the Hi Gain setting. I'm using Low Gain because the noise floor vanishes at that setting.
  
*I have a theory about why I like this setup:*  The lack of power has slowed down the HD800, killing its brittle edginess quite effectively, making the bass woollier and thus, fuller sounding, but not in the least bit sloppy - there's still plenty of texture but also more presence in the bass.  And there's plenty of power for those low-level micro details that add so much to the sound stage and imaging that the HD800 does better than any other headphone I own..
  
 My only complaint with the OPPO HA-2 > HD800 is that there's still a tiny bit of ESS glare coming from the ES9018K2M DAC - the same DAC used by the Geek Out 1000, which has itself developed a big following with HD800 owners - the glare is not annoying, as with the OPPO HA-1 > HD800 when using the desktop amp's ESS9018 implementation - it's just noticeable, more so with some tracks than others. Overall, the OPPO HA-2 > HD800 sound is amazingly nice, but can be fatiguing if used for longer than about an hour - somewhat like the HA-1 > HD800 in that regard, but* I'm not kidding, I think the portable OPPO HA-2 DAC + amp > HD800 sounds BETTER than the desktop HA-1 DAC + amp > HD800. *
  






  It's smoother in the treble, has better bass (again, with Bass+ turned off), is still highly resolving, and yet still has good dynamics somehow - with no evidence of the amp running out of oomph when a signal like a drum hit calls for more power - there's certainly no clipping.  
  
 I found it very interesting that you enjoyed such good results with the equally _*weak output *_of your Sony PHA-1 amp > HD800. There's another Head-Fi member who uses the Geek Out 450 with a USB Y-cable to supply 5V power for the GO from an Anker battery pack,pulling data from an iPhone with CCK - with the GO driving his HD800!  That makes three of us who are impressed with using a _*surprisingly low-power* *amp* _to get very satisfying results driving the HD800  I really do think it has something to do with slowing down the attack and decay of the HD800 and, of course, this impacts the bass more than the mids more than the treble. The result is really pretty amazing.
  
 Mike


----------



## billhickok

Crap! Anyone else scratch their pair of HD800s their first time trying to remove the cables? Tried to be as careful as possible but it required the force of Hercules to pry the left one out. Ended up with a nice nick/slight dent on the stripe-patterned cup. Ruined my night


----------



## aksh

+1


----------



## thecrow

inseconds99 said:


> Can anyone explain as to why headroom has hd800 and hd800 (2013's) with 2 way different frequency response graphs? I was trying to compare graphs from the hd700 and hd650 to the 800's and didn't know which one would be the correct one to look at if say I bought the 800's tomorrow.




I find those graphs are a handy little aid/visual but if I was considering the hd800s based on those graphs I wouldn't even consider giving them much of a look in. 

However when you hear them..........that's the only way to know if they are for you. 


If you look at the graphs of your other headphones you'll most likely be able to identify their traits in a lot of circumstances but a graph will never do any justice in trying to describe the hd800......at all.


----------



## Sorrodje

thecrow said:


> If you look at the graphs of your other headphones you'll most likely be able to identify their traits in a lot of circumstances but a graph will never do any justice in trying to describe the hd800......at all.


 
  
 I' have the worst difficulties to recover the headphones I own in Headroom graphs.  What I hear is closer to what Tyll proposes on IF . my 2 cents.


----------



## drez

Scratched mine that way too


----------



## spurxiii

billhickok said:


> Crap! Anyone else scratch their pair of HD800s their first time trying to remove the cables? Tried to be as careful as possible but it required the force of Hercules to pry the left one out. Ended up with a nice nick/slight dent on the stripe-patterned cup. Ruined my night


 
 Yep small nick with mine the same way


----------



## thecrow

sorrodje said:


> I' have the worst difficulties to recover the headphones I own in Headroom graphs.  What I hear is closer to what Tyll proposes on IF . my 2 cents.




Interesting that you mention him

A little while ago I was looking for another pair of mid fi (cheaper) headphones and I came across his review of the nad viso hp50 and I couldn't help but think he was going on quite a bit about those.....and then some. I was thinking, "is he on the take with this one?"

I managed to hear them on the weekend and now I understand what he was on about. A nice rounded punchy sound. 

Anyway that search of the mid fi headphones resulted in me finding the hd800s and buying them. 

Coincidentally just bought the irdac online for a bargain tonight so quite stoked. 

Cheers


----------



## christrz

thecrow said:


> Coincidentally just bought the irdac online for a bargain tonight so quite stoked.


 
 I'm using the arcam irdac as well, and the pairing with the HD800s suits my ears very well.  There aren't many impressions about this pairing out there, just a few posts here and there. Let us know what you think when you've received them!


----------



## thecrow

What amp are you using the irdac with for the hd800s. Any suggestions?


----------



## zilch0md

billhickok said:


> Crap! Anyone else scratch their pair of HD800s their first time trying to remove the cables? Tried to be as careful as possible but it required the force of Hercules to pry the left one out. Ended up with a nice nick/slight dent on the stripe-patterned cup. Ruined my night


 
  
 Really sorry to hear this.  I don't remember where I read it, but there's a guy out there who dented his brand new HD800's magnesium screen with the connector when his hand rebounded from pulling out a tight connector. 
  
 Maybe we should advise newcomers to _*wrap the HD800 in a towel*_ the first few times they attempt to disconnect the cables.  It does get easier over time.
  
 Mike


----------



## ruthieandjohn

zilch0md said:


> Spoiler: kayandjohn's diligent quest to go portable with the HD800
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks so much for your assessment of the HA-2 with the HD 800s -- I have now added "HD 800" in the Oppo HA-2 row of my table under "trusted reference,"  meaning one or more knowledgeable persons have tried them together and found them good.
  
 I am honestly amazed at how well my Sony PHA-1 does in driving the HD 800 and rendering it suited for portable use.  It was only because I could compare the sound with Sennheiser's own HDVD 800 DAC/amp for the HD 800 that I was convinced that the compromises were minimal.
  
 Just think.... soon we will start to see Sennheiser HD 800s on the heads of bling-attuned folks who are out and about, rather than just Beats.
  
 I'm ready... I got my HD 800s in the official black and red colors so I can start wearing them around town,  in my car or on the bus... now all I need is a skateboard for true urban use!
  

*Sennheiser HD 800 untethers itself from the wall and goes out and about!*


----------



## q2klepto

Has anyone upgraded from the HE-400i? Wondering what the main differences youve thought are and if the 400i wins in (or comes somewhat close to) any area other than price
  
 Thinking of getting rid of my work set (MSR7s) and go all out for my home set. 
  
 Hoping my amp (Audio-gd NFB15) can drive the HD800s well enough with 300mw@300Ohm and 150mw@600Ohm power specs
  
 Thanks


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I just received a 1.2m cable for my HD 800 as a part of my quest for its portable use.  Cable was $90 plus $10 shipping from here:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/201307381524?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=500501582872&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 I have placed it next to the stock Sennheiser HD 800 cable so you can see the difference in bulk. The sound is indistinguishable, and you can also see my iPod Touch 5 fastened to my Sony PHA-1 DAC/amp.
  
 The cable is VERY well made.  It has silver individual lines to each earpiece wrapped in clear plastic, a metal Y-joint, and the rest of the cable wrapped in braided cloth, similar to the Sennheiser.  Strain relief at the jack is accomplished with a spring around the cable, plus a brushed metal jack connector.  The cable is terminated with a 1/8" jack that includes a screw-on 1/4" adapter.
  
 Beautiful!


----------



## inseconds99

Today might be the day I order the HD 800's. I am a little nervous that I will not appreciate them or they might not be what I am looking for.


----------



## Mr Rick

inseconds99 said:


> Today might be the day I order the HD 800's. I am a little nervous that I will not appreciate them or they might not be what I am looking for.


 
  
 You will never know until you try them.


----------



## inseconds99

mr rick said:


> You will never know until you try them.




Very true statement, I can always return them. Only thing I truly want is all day comfort from them, if they can at least give me hat, as no other headphones I have does that, I'd be happy.


----------



## floydfan33

inseconds99 said:


> Very true statement, I can always return them.


 
 Don't do it too quick.....the HD800 takes some time to learn to love. I'm on my 2nd go around, and I'm wondering why I sold them the first time!
  
 My subjective opinion of things to try if you are unsure of them at first (based on my pair, assumes EQing available)
  
 Rock and Electronic music too harsh or bright? -5 DB at 6kHz
 LoFi Recordings? -8DB at 6kHz
 Jazz and Classical less than ideal recordings? A bit of both above
 Well recorded Jazz and Classical? Leave 'em alone!


----------



## shabta

Hey nice HD800 headphone stand! The stand would be a little to small in my room though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Quote:


ruthieandjohn said:


> *Sennheiser HD 800 untethers itself from the wall and goes out and about!*


----------



## inseconds99

I ordered the headphones, they will be here at the end of next week. Will post impressions after a few hours of listening. Now I have to endure a week or more of waiting for them to come in.. Must keep calm lol.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

inseconds99 said:


> I ordered the headphones, they will be here at the end of next week. Will post impressions after a few hours of listening. Now I have to endure a week or more of waiting for them to come in.. Must keep calm lol.


 

 I KNOW the feeling.  I remember the wait when I ordered mine... and since I got them custom colored by Colorware, it was three weeks wait!!


----------



## pearljam50000

Aren't you the guy who has every Grado ever made?
Can you compare HD800 to PS100e?
Which one did you end liking more? Thanks.


----------



## uchihaitachi

floydfan33 said:


> Don't do it too quick.....the HD800 takes some time to learn to love. I'm on my 2nd go around, and I'm wondering why I sold them the first time!
> 
> My subjective opinion of things to try if you are unsure of them at first (based on my pair, assumes EQing available)
> 
> ...


 
 Was just listening to Janine Jansen's albums. Incredibly well mastered + HD800 = private concert


----------



## ruthieandjohn

pearljam50000 said:


> Aren't you the guy who has every Grado ever made?
> Can you compare HD800 to PS100e?
> Which one did you end liking more? Thanks.


 

 I am the one... except that my PS1000 is not an -e, just a PS1000. Folks who have compared the PS1000 to the PS1000e (stacker45, joseph69, Macedonian Hero come to mind) say that the PS1000e has greater bass extension than the PS1000, but that the PS1000 has better treble and transparency (I think that these comments apply to all of the -e vs. the pre-e Grados).  Some (Macedonian Hero) rate the -e higher, others prefer the 1000 (no e).
  
 But I can and have compared the HD 800 to the PS1000 (as well as the Grado RS1i).
  
 Here is the comparison on 10 points of acoustic features important to me.  The full thread that explains all this is here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/530965/grado-fan-club/23265#post_11340487
  

*Comparison of HD 800, PS1000, and RS1i:  Higher numbers (and blue boxes) indicate 1st place winner of each 3-way compare; second place is blue; third place is yellow, ties for 1st / 2nd are purple, and 2nd/3rd ties are orange.*
  
 I find that I listen to my PS1000s most of all... more than the HD 800 or any others.  However, I have JUST been on a quest (see above) to make my HD 800s portable, as I have missed the impactful bass that I learned to like from my HiFiMAN HE-500s (which I sold, then bought, then sold again, then started to buy again until I compared them to the more recent HE-400i and HE-560 and decided I preferred but could not afford the HE-560 because it sounded like my HD 800s, so let's make the HD 800s untethered from the wall and use THEM for impactful bass with sparkling trebles!)


----------



## zilch0md

^ I really like your energy and enthusiasm kayandjohn!


----------



## pearljam50000

+1


zilch0md said:


> ^ I really like your energy and enthusiasm kayandjohn!


----------



## ruthieandjohn

pearljam50000 said:


> +1


 
 Thanks @zilch0md and @pearljam50000.
  
 Siimply part of my secret plot to achieve Complete Headphone Awareness as a  "Headphoneus Supremus" so I will get Free Headphones In The Mail  (only 132 posts to go!)


----------



## Argo Duck

OMG! Won't they end up'buggy' = cruel and unusual punishment? :eek:



ruthieandjohn said:


> I'm ready... I got my HD 800s in the official black and red colors so I can start wearing them around town,  in my car or on the bus... now all I need is a skateboard for true urban use!
> 
> 
> 
> *Sennheiser HD 800 untethers itself from the wall and goes out and about!*


----------



## thecrow

q2klepto said:


> Has anyone upgraded from the HE-400i? Wondering what the main differences youve thought are and if the 400i wins in (or comes somewhat close to) any area other than price




They are not even close to winning in my opinion. Unless you like the over accentuated bottom end of the he400i

The he560s compare well, though somewhat different. They are two quality headphones worth listening to if you are looking for a top end sound. 

If you've enjoyed the he400i then worth listening to the he560. They too are quite (a lot) better than the he400i

But the 400is and the hd800s are in different weight (and price) divisions.


----------



## MickeyVee

I own both the HD800 and the HE400i and had the HE560.  Think of them as follows: HD800=100%, HE560=85% and HE400i=75% as far as tight, deep, responsive and detailed bass, killer mids and detail, smooth and extended treble and great sound stage.  These are not meant to be exact numbers but to demonstrate the differences.  To me, they all have relatively smooth frequency response out of my McIntosh. The HD800 with the right source and amplifier is a killer headphone. The HE400i is probably the best mid-range HP that I've heard but does not come near or best the HD800 in any way.
  
 I actually sold the HE560 to get the 400i as I found the 560 to be an HD800 wanna be, close but no cookie. I always turned to the HD800 with the pairing. But it was killer with the Naim DAC-V1. It all depends on the end to end setup. Synergy is everything in this game.
 The HE400i on the other hand, I find to be a fun, engaging and more forgiving well balanced headphone and its a good compliment to the HD800 when I want to use a lesser amp or around the house with my iPhone6 or AK100 II.
 Hope this helps. M.
  
 Quote:


q2klepto said:


> Has anyone upgraded from the HE-400i? Wondering what the main differences youve thought are and if the 400i wins in (or comes somewhat close to) any area other than price


----------



## 62ohm

mickeyvee said:


> The HD800 with the right source and amplifier is a killer headphone.


 
  
 Yeah, it is so good I'm really considering selling my other headphones (K812 and HD650) as they barely get any head time..
  
 To be honest, at this stage I doubt I would ever find a headphone I like better than the HD800.


----------



## MickeyVee

Yup, with the HD800/McIntosh combo I'm pretty much done and nothing else interests me now.  I may pick up the Oppo PM3 for a closed HP for use with my AK100 II but that's about it.
 Quote:


62ohm said:


>


----------



## Drsparis

floydfan33 said:


> Don't do it too quick.....the HD800 takes some time to learn to love. I'm on my 2nd go around, and I'm wondering why I sold them the first time!
> 
> My subjective opinion of things to try if you are unsure of them at first (based on my pair, assumes EQing available)
> 
> ...


did you mean different frequencies? The "bit of both" doesn't quite add up considering they are both 6khz. Not trying to nitpick, genuinely curious for my own personal use


----------



## q2klepto

mickeyvee said:


> The HD800 with the right source and amplifier is a killer headphone.
> 
> The HE400i is probably the best mid-range HP that I've heard but does not come near or best the HD800 in any way. The HE400i on the other hand, I find to be a fun, engaging and more forgiving well balanced headphone and its a good compliment to the HD800 when I want to use a lesser amp or around the house with my iPhone6 or AK100 II.


 
  
 I dont think ill be changing amps anytime soon - itll be paired with the audiogd NFB15, which can output 300mw@300Ohm and 150mw@600Ohm

 Mostly i think itll be powerful enough. 
  
 Id never use the 400i without an amp tho heh - its harder to drive than the PM1s, and much harder than the PM3s and MSR7s (which are meant for portable use) 
  
 Damn i wish there was somewhere in town where i can demo the HD800s, im planning on getting them used if possible
  
 How are the highs on the 800s compared to the 400i? I'm afraid that itll be too bright, but i dont think it approaches sibilant correct? The 400is fixed that, but you occasionally feel it coming up but it doesnt _actually_ get sibilant on some tracks. 

 Two things im worried about the HD800s 
 1. It may be too bright (altho my amp is on the warm side of neutral - i believe its a dual Wolfson DAC design)
 2. Bass not as *fun* as the 400i. Not a bass head anymore, but i do tend to listen to top 40 stuff as well as hiphop/rnb/edm from time to time. 
 3. Detail retrieval, it exposes garbage mastered tracks.  Like everyone else on this thread - most source is FLAC, but i wonder how newer songs are mastered usually? 
  
 Things im looking forward to with the HD800
 1. Greatly increased soundstage, in both height/width
 2. Detail retrieval, its almost as if im coming from the M50s to the HE400is
  
 Anyways thanks for your thoughts


----------



## floydfan33

drsparis said:


> did you mean different frequencies? The "bit of both" doesn't quite add up considering they are both 6khz. Not trying to nitpick, genuinely curious for my own personal use


 
 Sorry, I use EITHER -5 or -8 depending on the recording.


----------



## RUMAY408

I posted the WA5 as the best amp I have heard with the HD800, detail, deep bass, crisp and clean.
  
 Failed to mention the tubes: Sophia Royal Princess 
  
 and the DAC Schiit Yggdrasil
  
 An expensive, and arguably end game, but what an experience the HD800 does indeed scale up
  
 Music City Meet: thank you Dan (Mr.Speakers) for the opportunity to check it out


----------



## shabta

@kayandjohn You may want to add the Lehmann Audio Traveller to your fab list of portable options for the HD800...


----------



## Sorrodje

q2klepto said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Your 15.32 is a very good starting point. Adding a Vali is a worthy step up though.  Not really close to the overall refinement of best chains but definitely enjoyable if I trust my experience with a NFB12 ( predecessor of the 15.32)


----------



## ruthieandjohn

shabta said:


> @kayandjohn
> You may want to add the Lehmann Audio Traveller to your fab list of portable options for the HD800...



Thanks! Didn't know about that one. I will add it.


----------



## pearljam50000

Is the metal mesh really soft and gets bent really easy or is it tough? i never touched it, but it's just i'm handling the HD800's with crazy care like the most fragile thing in the world, so i need to know how fragile they really are


----------



## shabta

pearljam50000 said:


> Is the metal mesh really soft and gets bent really easy or is it tough? i never touched it, but it's just i'm handling the HD800's with crazy care like the most fragile thing in the world, so i need to know how fragile they really are


 
 It's a very fine mesh, handle with care.


----------



## icebear

The mesh is flexible. You push with your finger a little, release and it will just flex back into shape.
 It will not withstand a screw driver attack but for all relevant careful handling it seems to do just fine.
 Don't worry about it and enjoy the music


----------



## Eee Pee

I'm outta control!
  

  
 And look at that paint chip!  ArgghhhHH!!


----------



## icebear

eee pee said:


> I'm outta control!
> 
> 
> And look at that paint chip!  ArgghhhHH!!


 
 Just take a silver Sharpie and be done with it


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Now featuring DateMate HD 800 headphone racks, in contrasting colors:


----------



## HiFiChris

@kayandjohn: Do you have two Abarth 500?


----------



## pearljam50000

Humm i just registered and it said they would email me the graph, with my old pair, i got a physical graph printed on paper in the mail, have they stopped sending a real one?


----------



## thomascrown

eee pee said:


> I'm outta control!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Fixed
  
 https://youtu.be/9vvMKxDvAt8


----------



## HiFiChris

pearljam50000 said:
			
		

> [...] with my old pair, i got a physical graph printed on paper in the mail, have they stopped sending a real one?



Yes, yes they have. Unfortunately.


----------



## pearljam50000




----------



## ruthieandjohn

hifichris said:


> @kayandjohn
> : Do you have two Abarth 500?



Who, me?


----------



## HiFiChris

ruthieandjohn said:


> hifichris said:
> 
> 
> > @kayandjohn
> ...


 
 Yes, you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I only knew you had the red one but didn't know it was a 500C, though. I saw the black one for the first time one page before, so I got curious.
 They've got a pretty nice exhaust note imo, especially when being started up.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

The black one is actually a friend's, but they often play together. One time we both went down in our respective Abarths to the FIAT dealer, where the lady that sold them joined us in a third one, and we had a little Abarth gang that processed through the streets of Ann Arbor, top down, blasting the FIAT Song (" Sexy People," by Ariana and Pitbull) at full volume on my Beats auto audio system!


----------



## inseconds99

Can anyone recommend me a headphone stand for my HD800's, I see a few on amazon but cannot tell what kind of quality they are. Thanks in advance.


----------



## bearFNF

inseconds99 said:


> Can anyone recommend me a headphone stand for my HD800's, I see a few on amazon but cannot tell what kind of quality they are. Thanks in advance.


I'm using the Woo stand and one from Jaben.


----------



## i019791

q2klepto said:


> I dont think ill be changing amps anytime soon - itll be paired with the audiogd NFB15, which can output 300mw@300Ohm and 150mw@600Ohm
> 
> Mostly i think itll be powerful enough. *Correct*
> 
> ...


 
 The above is what I hear comparing to the Hifiman HE500, assuming that the 400i & 500 are close enough to be useful to you


----------



## inseconds99

bearfnf said:


> I'm using the Woo stand and one from Jaben.


 
 Mind linking them?


----------



## bearFNF

inseconds99 said:


> Mind linking them?


 
http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wahps.html
http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wahps2.html
http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wahpsc.html
  
http://jaben.net/shopping2/Hippocase_Metal_Stand_Biscuit.html
http://jaben.net/shopping2/Metal_Headphone_Stand.html


----------



## inseconds99

These are some of the stands I am looking at, any opinions on them?
  
Acrylic
  
Omega Wood
  
Clear Omega
  
Brainwavz


----------



## earthpeople

I would probably go with one of the acrylic ones from those choices. I've heard different things about the cheaper wood omegas, for instance paint/stain problems, rough or poor finish on some spots, inconsistent quality. You might get lucky and get a good one, but I'd rather just go for something else personally. 
  
 With that said, I use a Woo Audio HPS-T for my HD800s and T1s. I don't like the idea of the earpads pressing against something all the time. They are a bit pricier, but the Woo stands look great and are well made and heavy. Curved top helps spread pressure across the headband, though that's true of the omega style as well. 
 I say if you've got $1000+ headphones, it's worth the extra cost for a much higher quality stand.


----------



## uchihaitachi

I always use this


----------



## inseconds99

earthpeople said:


> I would probably go with one of the acrylic ones from those choices. I've heard different things about the cheaper wood omegas, for instance paint/stain problems, rough or poor finish on some spots, inconsistent quality. You might get lucky and get a good one, but I'd rather just go for something else personally.
> 
> With that said, I use a Woo Audio HPS-T for my HD800s and T1s. I don't like the idea of the earpads pressing against something all the time. They are a bit pricier, but the Woo stands look great and are well made and heavy. Curved top helps spread pressure across the headband, though that's true of the omega style as well.
> I say if you've got $1000+ headphones, it's worth the extra cost for a much higher quality stand.


 
 I agree with you 100%, I am not trying to cheap out on the stand, I want something nice, just don't know which ones are the best. Also, is the one you recommended able to hold 2 headphones? I am trying to find something where the headphones won't accidently fall with my girl dusting the desk or something.


----------



## earthpeople

Yep, the HPS-T is designed for two. http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wahps2.html
  
 HPS-R for single, HPS-T for double. The stand has a very stable base and the whole thing is apparently 5 lbs -- it would take more than a light push from a duster to knock it over or even move it.


----------



## inseconds99

earthpeople said:


> Yep, the HPS-T is designed for two. http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wahps2.html
> 
> HPS-R for single, HPS-T for double. The stand has a very stable base and the whole thing is apparently 5 lbs -- it would take more than a light push from a duster to knock it over or even move it.


 
 I apprectiate the response. Still deciding, I like that 1 stand holds 2 phones.


----------



## akhyar

inseconds99 said:


> I apprectiate the response. Still deciding, I like that 1 stand holds 2 phones.




I'm also using the Woo stand, with mine being in chrome for my HD800 and Sony Z7.
I had the omega-cloned but stop using them as the headband and earpads left sticky residue on the stand that are difficult to clean


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Touch of Modern just helpfully sent me an ad for these stands, $133 down from $200 today only, multiple colors, with a gold-plated version as well ($450 or so down from $600+).


----------



## kothganesh

ruthieandjohn said:


> The black one is actually a friend's, but they often play together. One time we both went down in our respective Abarths to the FIAT dealer, where the lady that sold them joined us in a third one, and we had a little Abarth gang that processed through the streets of Ann Arbor, top down, blasting the FIAT Song (" Sexy People," by Ariana and Pitbull) at full volume on my Beats auto audio system!


 
 Would this be down Main, State Street or South Forest Avenue? . Gosh I miss A^2.


----------



## HiFiChris

Wow, those Woo stands are very fair priced. By looking at them, I'd have guesed the HPS-R was definitely above 100$, but no, it isn't. Nonetheless I love my walnut Sieveking Omega, it looks great on my walnut-imitation desk and has got the perfect shape for the HD 800, a very smooth surface and lacks any sharp edges.


----------



## White Lotus

Cheap wooden Omega stand works perfectly fine for me. I'd recommend it.


----------



## HiFiChris

@White Lotus: Yet you should be careful as I heard of some users who reported that the headphone's ear cushion might stick to the wooden surface after longer resting times on some of the cheap non-Sieveking Omega stands.
 I think I'd sand it a little and apply a new layer of hard wax to it.


----------



## White Lotus

hifichris said:


> @White Lotus: Yet you should be careful as I heard of some users who reported that the headphone's ear cushion might stick to the wooden surface after longer resting times on some of the cheap non-Sieveking Omega stands.
> I think I'd sand it a little and apply a new layer of hard wax to it.


 
  
 I've had mine for months, using a variety of headphones, no issues.
  
 It's hard to find hard evidence of such cases.
  
 I did find one guy who had the issue you mentioned - turns out it was his hair product that didn't play well with the wood polish on the stand. 
  
 The hair product transferred onto his headphones, then onto the stand. 
  
 But that is a great idea, however!


----------



## HiFiChris

Well, that expleins a lot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Could if have been pomade by any chance? When I had rather long hair and an undercut some years ago, I used to apply pomade to it to achieve a quiff. At that time, I never listened to headphones when I had the pomade applied. Washing that stuff out of my hair was also a p.i.t.a. as it took some time and multiple showers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Now that I have short hair again I don't use any hair slick or pomade, so my headphones get more listening time.
  
 By the way, I don't know if it was on Head-Fi or somewhere else, but I also read of some users who reported their cheap Omega stands to have an itchy surface.


----------



## akhyar

akhyar said:


> Just be careful when using those Omega wooden stand.
> 
> I was using the cheap eBay imitation stand (*i.e. NOT Sieveking*) and left my HD800 on it for more than 2 weeks as I was overseas.
> When I removed the HD800 from the stand, there were some residues from the headband and ear cups left on the stand.
> Tried to remove the residues with warm water but to no avail.




Happened to me on my cheap imitation Sieveking omega.
Btw, I do not use any hair product on my almost bald head


----------



## Moonhead

I like Rooms headphone stand, but as Always its a matter of preference.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/608607/rooms-headphone-stands


----------



## thecrow

I needed a stand that made my headphones easily accessible to me but not so accessible to my 4 year old.

This is what I put up the other night. On the old ikea billy bookcase. 
- I'm hoping there is not a pitfall on this idea.


----------



## Fegefeuer

moonhead said:


> I like Rooms headphone stand, but as Always its a matter of preference.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/608607/rooms-headphone-stands


 
  
 Imo the best solution for all headphones. Touches the headphones the least while allowing (velour-type) earpads to dry while looking beautiful.


----------



## shabta

I think this official senn stand cost 15 euro


----------



## Sorrodje

TH900 stand for me .


----------



## whirlwind

Custom stand here


----------



## wink

Where would the uncustom stand..?


----------



## zilch0md

whirlwind said:


> Custom stand here
> 
> [snip]


 
  
 Nice job whirlwind.  I respect you craftsmanship!
  
 Mike


----------



## inseconds99

I originally loved the omega stands that I listed but then I realized that I don't want my earcups touching the stand and being compressed at all times. I think that woo audio stand is the route I am going.


----------



## PleasantSounds

Another custom solution:


----------



## Zoom25

inseconds99 said:


> I originally loved the omega stands that I listed but then I realized that I don't want my earcup a touch the stand and bing compressed at all times. I think that woo audio stand is the route I am going.


 

 Yeah, same. I like Omega, but dislike the compression on the pads all the time. The Room and Woo Audio headphone stands are open and easier on the pads.


----------



## akhyar

inseconds99 said:


> I originally loved the omega stands that I listed but then I realized that I don't want my earcups touching the stand and being compressed at all times. I think that woo audio stand is the route I am going.




I think you will love the Woo stand, just like I do. 
Now the question is do you want it in black or silver? 

Just found out that the chrome version that I'm using has been discontinued.


----------



## White Lotus

+1 for the Woo stand.


----------



## mrmarano

zoom25 said:


> Yeah, same. I like Omega, but dislike the compression on the pads all the time. The Room and Woo Audio headphone stands are open and easier on the pads.


 
  
 I agree. I also use the Woo. The broad, curved T-support does a great job of distributing the headphone's weight. Less chance of the headband "notching" or "grooving" over time.
  
 The vertical mast is adjustable, so you can raise it for larger cans or lower it, and thus the center of gravity, for smaller rigs.
  
 The base is quite heavy and the stand is very stable overall.
  
 One note, though. The mast bolts through the base and the nut can strip the mast bolt if over-tightened. Once set up, though, smooth sailing.


----------



## bearFNF

Just making sure the adjustment screw is not lined up with the ear cups, as it can ding your paint if it is.


----------



## RingingEars

pleasantsounds said:


> Another custom solution:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Superfine job sir. Look at all those cables <drools>


----------



## Zoom25

mrmarano said:


> I agree. I also use the Woo. The broad, curved T-support does a great job of distributing the headphone's weight. Less chance of the headband "notching" or "grooving" over time.
> 
> The vertical mast is adjustable, so you can raise it for larger cans or lower it, and thus the center of gravity, for smaller rigs.
> 
> ...


 

 Nice. I want a Klutz stand for the HD 800 but it's way overpriced. So the next best thing would be a Woo Audio. If I had Audeze again, I'd go with Room headphone stand because they have perfect colour match. With HD 800, I didn't find a good match.
  
 For double Woo stands, I have D2000 and HD 800, which are both black and silver. Not sure if the black or silver Woo would be better...?


----------



## mrmarano

zoom25 said:


> Nice. I want a Klutz stand for the HD 800 but it's way overpriced. So the next best thing would be a Woo Audio. If I had Audeze again, I'd go with Room headphone stand because they have perfect colour match. With HD 800, I didn't find a good match.
> 
> For double Woo stands, I have D2000 and HD 800, which are both black and silver. Not sure if the black or silver Woo would be better...?


 
  
 I opted for black. Black is black, and mostly complements everything. As you correctly point out, there's different kinds of silver. Wrong one might clash, and colors can appear differently on different monitors.
  
 I have a fairly industrial setup, so maybe for me it wouldn't matter. The uglier the better...


----------



## JamieMcC

My DIY jobbie


----------



## Mr Rick

jamiemcc said:


> My DIY jobbie


 
 Nothing wrong with that. And, I'll bet the price was right.


----------



## skeptic

akhyar said:


> Happened to me on my cheap imitation Sieveking omega.
> Btw, I do not use any hair product on my almost bald head


 
  
 I think it is a minor issue (or just the result of general aging) with the hd800 headband pad and not a problem with any particular stand.  I have an early, sub-2k SN hd800, and over the course of several years, mine have now left a mark like this on the top bar of my silver Woo stand which is perfectly smooth.  Like akhyar, I also do not use hair product.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

kothganesh said:


> Would this be down Main, State Street or South Forest Avenue? . Gosh I miss A^2.


 

 We roared out of the FIAT dealership on Stadium, across from the Chrysler dealership and next to the Stadium Post office, and went up Liberty into town.  We turned onto Main, going by all the stores, radio blasting "The FIAT Song," then up to the University, down State Street, and back to the dealership through residential streets. 
  
 Great weather, lots of waves and grins!
  
  

  
 ,,, and (assiduously keeping on topic), the rearview mirrors make GREAT headphone stands!


----------



## Drsparis

akhyar said:


> Happened to me on my cheap imitation Sieveking omega.
> Btw, I do not use any hair product on my almost bald head


 
 This really freaks me out! I have 2 from Massdrop and was considering ordering 2 more from aliexpress, How were the headphone pads?


----------



## akhyar

drsparis said:


> This really freaks me out! I have 2 from Massdrop and was considering ordering 2 more from aliexpress, How were the headphone pads?




The headphone pads are fine. Nothing came out from it, just some residues left on the stand. 
Mind you, my headphone is about 1-year old, with serial no. 27k, so I don't think age of headphone is the main reason here.
As long as you don't leave your headphone on the stand for a few weeks without any movements, I think you'll be fine.


----------



## pearljam50000

Hi, i got my graph finally, i can't really read it, can someone tell me if it's good? Thanks.


----------



## Blackmore

Its just another graph, all it is.


----------



## pearljam50000

Yes
But, what does is say about the sound? Bright? Bassy? 


blackmore said:


> Its just another graph, all it is.


----------



## Blackmore

It will not change them and I dont think it says a lot. I lost my somewhere in the e-mail box.
  
 Quote:


pearljam50000 said:


> Yes
> But, what does is say about the sound? Bright? Bassy?


----------



## icebear

pearljam50000 said:


> Yes
> But, what does is say about the sound? Bright? Bassy?


 

 Don't worry about it.
 The graph just confirms that your serial# HD800 complies to specs and has been checked and measured and you got documentation about this. This is called quality control 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 There is absolutely nothing wrong with it.
 Do you like how your favourite music material sounds from your source? Be happy and enjoy.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

pearljam50000 said:


> Hi, i got my graph finally, i can't really read it, can someone tell me if it's good? Thanks.



Yours is good, but mine is better:


----------



## lukeap69

ruthieandjohn said:


> Yours is good, but mine is better:


 
 Wow, midrange to die for!


----------



## kothganesh

ruthieandjohn said:


> Yours is good, but mine is better:


 
 Wolverines to the rescue


----------



## pearljam50000

Lol
It's just that my older pair (around 3000 SERIAL #) was brighter and had less bass, at least that is how I remember it, so I wanted to see if the graph reflects that. I am a little bummed because I like bright sound ):
but the sound is more balanced now so it's not all negative.


----------



## Blackmore

when you get better source and upgrade the HD800 cable, you will be having much better sound. I will try to arange the lower serie HD800 for comparisson.
  
 Quote:


pearljam50000 said:


> Lol
> It's just that my older pair (around 3000 SERIAL #) was brighter and had less bass, at least that is how I remember it, so I wanted to see if the graph reflects that. I am a little bummed because I like bright sound ):
> but the sound is more balanced now so it's not all negative.


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks!!!
I really appreciate it 
And yes you are right I have to upgrade to know for sure, and I got only a couple of hours on them so break in is a must.


----------



## skeptic

A possible head-fi first!?! Can't recall having ever seen a post indicating that hd800's weren't bright enough for any listener's preferences. Nothing wrong with that at all, just helps illustrate the wide range of disparate perceptions and impressions we all have. I'll be interested to read your impressions over time and as you try other associated gear.


----------



## pearljam50000

lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Thank you, i will try to update when i can.


----------



## NightFlight

fegefeuer said:


> Imo the best solution for all headphones. Touches the headphones the least while allowing (velour-type) earpads to dry while looking beautiful.


 
  
 Bah. My Sennheiser HH10 Headphone Stand has worked best for me. My rig is messy, but I don't care what it looks like, as I'm not listening to looks. 
 Doesn't seem to break down or slip. You can put it up high or low so long as you have an edge for it to lock down to.


----------



## shabta

nightflight said:


> Bah. My Sennheiser HH10 Headphone Stand has worked best for me. My rig is messy, but I don't care what it looks like, as I'm not listening to looks.
> Doesn't seem to break down or slip. You can put it up high or low so long as you have an edge for it to lock down to.


 
 +1 That's what i use. The only point of contact is the headband which is a plus, and it doesn't take up valuable desktop real estate. I think it looks fine.


----------



## wink

I have 3 of the things...


----------



## knowhatimean

Does Senn. still make this thing; I think I had one of them 30yrs ago.
  
 Is it still relatively "dirt cheap" ?


----------



## akhyar

I received the stand and t-shirt from Sennheiser Asia after I registered my HD800.


----------



## HiFiChris

What t-shirt? Pics please!


----------



## wink

http://www.ebay.com/itm/One-In-a-Minion-Despicable-Me-Dave-Funny-Men-Ladies-T-Shirts-Vest-S-XXL-Size-/251913748387?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item3aa73abfa3


----------



## HiFiChris

I thought it was some Sennheiser-related t-shirt (or am I missing some sort of joke?).

Unfortunately those Sennheiser stands aren't sold anymore. It even looks like there is some kind of soft bolstering on it.


----------



## lukeap69

hifichris said:


> I thought it was some Sennheiser-related t-shirt (or am I missing some sort of joke?).
> 
> Unfortunately those Sennheiser stands aren't sold anymore. It even looks like there is some kind of soft bolstering on it.


 
 You've got to get used to @wink's post. When he is serious, I get bored.


----------



## shabta

hifichris said:


> Unfortunately those Sennheiser stands aren't sold anymore. It even looks like there is some kind of soft bolstering on it.


 
 Bummer. I paid less than 15 euro for mine. It has some kind of padding: the ridges on either side.


----------



## shabta

Here's a similiar one:
 http://www.bax-shop.fr/konig-meyer-16090-support-pour-casque.html?pup_e=1&gclid=CjwKEAjw9uypBRD5pMDYtsKxvXcSJACcb9AYFvdkSx2jDHevCtulxBSwbgHRNmcryp4YJfzY1BTKvhoCk_7w_wcB


----------



## HiFiChris

shabta said:


> Here's a similiar one:
> http://www.bax-shop.fr/konig-meyer-16090-support-pour-casque.html?pup_e=1&gclid=CjwKEAjw9uypBRD5pMDYtsKxvXcSJACcb9AYFvdkSx2jDHevCtulxBSwbgHRNmcryp4YJfzY1BTKvhoCk_7w_wcB


 
 Thank you, but I already know the K&M. I guess my Sieveking Omega stand will do it for the next while, but I thing something like the K&M or Sennheiser clip-on thing are more practical if one wants to rest his 'phones for just a few minutes. I discovered that when I used my chair's armrest and my desk lamp as headphone stands/holders when I was comparing some of my cans lately due to the Omega stand is only capable of holding one.


----------



## Taowolf51

shabta said:


> Bummer. I paid less than 15 euro for mine. It has some kind of padding: the ridges on either side.


 
  
 That's a good price. I wanted to pick one up myself back when they were still on Amazon, but they cost something like $65.


----------



## shabta

taowolf51 said:


> That's a good price. I wanted to pick one up myself back when they were still on Amazon, but they cost something like $65.


 
 Now I wish I bought a few...


----------



## HiFiChris

I remember when they were priced around 10-25€ over here and I just thought I wouldn't need any.


----------



## Eee Pee

Senn used to include them with the HD 595. I bought two more for $15 each.


----------



## pearljam50000

Has anyone tried the Asgard 2 with the HD800?
 Is it worth the extra $$$ over the Vali?


----------



## akhyar

hifichris said:


> What t-shirt? Pics please!




Just a grey-coloured round neck T, without any photo of HD800 or Sennheiser logo at all.
Will check with the missus where did she keep the t-shirt. Lol!


----------



## HiFiChris

@akhyar: So there is no Sennheiser logo on it at all, not even on the inside label?


----------



## koiloco

pearljam50000 said:


> Has anyone tried the Asgard 2 with the HD800?
> Is it worth the extra $$$ over the Vali?


 
 Not sure about Asgard 2 but I would pick Vali > Asgard 1 for HD800 100%.  I used my WA22 as benchmark for this comparison.


----------



## Mr Rick

pearljam50000 said:


> Has anyone tried the Asgard 2 with the HD800?
> Is it worth the extra $$$ over the Vali?


 
 i have the Vali and the Asgard 2. I've used both with my HD800s and the HPs sound great on either. I hear no difference in SQ. 
  
 However, the Asgard 2 has other features that may make it a better choice for you.
  
 Cheers,


----------



## NightFlight

While decent, with the HD800 I would pass on the low-end Schiit stuff unless that's where you want to start. I started with it and it lasted all of a couple days with me.  The Asgard does not show of anywhere near the potential of this headphone. Never tried the Asgard 2, but it can't be that much improved or you'd here more about it.


----------



## Alexalder

nightflight said:


> While decent, with the HD800 I would pass on the low-end Schiit stuff unless that's where you want to start. I started with it and it lasted all of a couple days with me.  The Asgard does not show of anywhere near the potential of this headphone. Never tried the Asgard 2, but it can't be that much improved or you'd here more about it.


 

 Well, you hear a LOT about the Asgard. What problem did you have with it? It has a lot of power and is technically excellent


----------



## Sorrodje

pearljam50000 said:


> Has anyone tried the Asgard 2 with the HD800?
> Is it worth the extra $$$ over the Vali?


 
  
 Stick with Vali and save money for best options than Asgard.


----------



## Mr Rick

alexalder said:


> Well, you hear a LOT about the Asgard. What problem did you have with it? It has a lot of power and is technically excellent


 
  
 Some people hear things that are objectionable to them when pairing their HD800s with the Asgard. Some people claim the Asgard is deficient in some way because of what they have read others say. I prefer to try things for myself and come to my own conclusions. I listen to my HD800s on a Vali, an Asgard and three other Schiit amps. And the HD800s sound great on all of them.


----------



## Alexalder

mr rick said:


> Some people hear things that are objectionable to them when pairing their HD800s with the Asgard. Some people claim the Asgard is deficient in some way because of what they have read others say. I prefer to try things for myself and come to my own conclusions. I listen to my HD800s on a Vali, an Asgard and three other Schiit amps. And the HD800s sound great on all of them.


 

 Well I've tried them on Asgard 2 and they sounded just as they are described, anemic bass, sibilant highs, great soundstage and definition. I guess it comes down to taste and hearing, as always


----------



## BleaK

pearljam50000 said:


> Has anyone tried the Asgard 2 with the HD800?
> Is it worth the extra $$$ over the Vali?


 
  
 Go with the Valhalla 2, best buy for the HD800. Love mine and is imo the best price/perfomance ratio for HD800-amps.


----------



## koiloco

mr rick said:


> Some people hear things that are objectionable to them when pairing their HD800s with the Asgard. Some people claim the Asgard is deficient in some way because of what they have read others say. I prefer to try things for myself and come to my own conclusions. I listen to my HD800s on a Vali, an Asgard and three other Schiit amps. And the HD800s sound great on all of them.


 
 +1


----------



## koiloco

nightflight said:


> While decent, with the HD800 I would pass on the low-end Schiit stuff unless that's where you want to start. I started with it and it lasted all of a couple days with me.  The Asgard does not show of anywhere near the potential of this headphone. Never tried the Asgard 2, but it can't be that much improved or you'd here more about it.


 
  For the $ asked, there's nothing low-end about the Schiit stuff(Asgard, Vali...), IMO of course.  Not many people have $ to throw at unneeded stuff.  Let's not put a class label on components that punch through way beyond their price range.


----------



## Mr Rick

koiloco said:


> For the $ asked, there's nothing low-end about the Schiit stuff(Asgard, Vali...), IMO of course.  Not many people have $ to throw at unneeded stuff.  Let's not put a class label on components that punch through way beyond their price range.


 
 Exactly!!


----------



## NightFlight

That's just letting political correctness get in the way of opinion. IMHO the Asgard wasn't/isn't even in the same bracket to show off what the HD800 can do. The one I got was used so it was well broken in. Then better caps were thrown at it, but they didn't such a big roll in that circuit, because they didn't do much for it.  
  
 I used a Lyr and a Bifrost for more than a year. Then was happy with that with top tier tubes (1960s Siemens CCa).  I thought that was the cats ass until I built a Crack. Then speed balled it (C4S boards). Then from there better tubes, caps, wiring, pot, until I was really happy. I didn't think I would ever need to upgrade. My Crack amp is a pretty serious piece of gear.  I didn't think you could get much better.
  
 But I got the itch and I decided to try out the Mainline kit.  Well I was wrong. The Crack is thumpy and shouty.  Some recordings I simply could not listen to with it because it was too piercing which I chalked up to be the recording. Eg the HDTracks 24/192 Diana Krall albums. Tuns out the Crack is not all what it was cracked up to be.
  
 The Mainline opened up detail I didn't think possible, but it does so in a manner that is simply ... sublime.  I've also read it compared DNA Status by someone who owns both. The Mainline holds its own and its a close thing with the DNA just edging out ahead... but it costs 2K more + tubes.
  
 Anyhow, I've been at it with the HD800 + Amp thing for a couple years now. Not a ton of expenditures. I've been doing it on the 'cheap'.  The Asgard is on the cheap, but it might lead you to tossing in the towel early with the HD800.


----------



## koiloco

^ I'll chalk this one up for good intention.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
  
 I've helped a friend build a crack.  I wasn't impressed with it driving HD800 by any means.  Vali vs. Crack (speed ball or not) is not a huge difference in SQ for the price disparity.  On the cheap, I'll still go with the Vali.  Btw,  I've heard rumor that there might not be an end to amp upgrading that will bring out the best of the HD800. Therefore, enjoy what you currently have and can afford.  Listen to the music, not the equipment.


----------



## NightFlight

In my case the Vali never showed up until after my Crack purchase. I did have a chance to listen to it at a meet but missed my chance there. Got talking and all that - when I should have been listening! 
  
 Quote:


koiloco said:


> Listen to the music, not the equipment.


 
  
 That's just crazy talk.


----------



## q2klepto

Looking to buy a used HD800 - seller says its 2nd generation with Serial number 20266 - are there major variations between generations? Does this s/n look good?


----------



## inseconds99

Initial impression of my HD 800 from 1 hour of listening, LOVE THEM, but I do have 1 issue and that is comfort. They are so loose on my head, I move my head left and right and the headphones move. If i look down, they nearly come flying off my head. I have a big head as well, the Fidelio X1's don't even fit my head and the HD 650's are tight as hell on my head. 
  
 Am I doing something wrong? Do I have a headphone that was made incorrectly? Am I wearing this wrong?


----------



## uchihaitachi

q2klepto said:


> Looking to buy a used HD800 - seller says its 2nd generation with Serial number 20266 - are there major variations between generations? Does this s/n look good?


 
 I asked this question earlier in the thread. The answer was that there aren't any systematic differences between generations....


----------



## Mr Rick

inseconds99 said:


> Initial impression of my HD 800 from 1 hour of listening, LOVE THEM, but I do have 1 issue and that is comfort. They are so loose on my head, I move my head left and right and the headphones move. If i look down, they nearly come flying off my head. I have a big head as well, the Fidelio X1's don't even fit my head and the HD 650's are tight as hell on my head.
> 
> Am I doing something wrong? Do I have a headphone that was made incorrectly? Am I wearing this wrong?


 
 That's about the way mine fit. The HD650s are tight for me as well.
  
 I won't be doing any jogging in my HD800s.


----------



## johnjen

inseconds99 said:


> Initial impression of my HD 800 from 1 hour of listening, LOVE THEM, but I do have 1 issue and that is comfort. They are so loose on my head, I move my head left and right and the headphones move. If i look down, they nearly come flying off my head. I have a big head as well, the Fidelio X1's don't even fit my head and the HD 650's are tight as hell on my head.
> 
> Am I doing something wrong? Do I have a headphone that was made incorrectly? Am I wearing this wrong?


 
 Try placing them on your head and see if this positioning helps.
  
 Move the ear cups forward such that the backs of your ears are close to, or in contact with, the backs of the ear cups.
 Then rotate the head band forward so that it rests on the forward half of your noggin.
  
 For me this is the best SQ and the best most secure fit.
  
 JJ


----------



## inseconds99

johnjen said:


> Try placing them on your head and see if this positioning helps.
> 
> Move the ear cups forward such that the backs of your ears are close to, or in contact with, the backs of the ear cups.
> Then rotate the head band forward so that it rests on the forward half of your noggin.
> ...




Thank you for this suggestion, unfortunately I had to step out for a bit but when I get home later I will try this method.


----------



## holyindian

koiloco said:


> Not sure about Asgard 2 but I would pick Vali > Asgard 1 for HD800 100%.  I used my WA22 as benchmark for this comparison.


 
 I heard the WA22 with the HD800 at AXPONA last week, and was completely blown away. The music sounded so much rich and smooth, extremely organic.
 Eric Clapton sounded amazing.
 Do you think the Schiit amp's that you mentioned above play similar to WA22 or the WA22 definately better?


----------



## Mr Rick

holyindian said:


> I heard the WA22 with the HD800 at AXPONA last week, and was completely blown away. The music sounded so much rich and smooth, extremely organic.
> Eric Clapton sounded amazing.
> Do you think the Schiit amp's that you mentioned above play similar to WA22 or the WA22 definately better?


 
 I can't compare sound but I can compare price. The Vali is $119.00. The Asgard 2 is $249.00. The WA22 is $1995.00 without upgrades.


----------



## koiloco

holyindian said:


> I heard the WA22 with the HD800 at AXPONA last week, and was completely blown away. The music sounded so much rich and smooth, extremely organic.
> Eric Clapton sounded amazing.
> Do you think the Schiit amp's that you mentioned above play similar to WA22 or the WA22 definately better?



Imo, to my ears n with my set up, if my wa22 is a 10 then the Vali will be 8ish. This is simply amazing for 20x less money (stock) 
If u take into account my $800 upgraded tubes, the Vali will impress even more. Let me put it this way. I will be content using the Vali to drive hd800 for my office rig.


----------



## Zoom25

johnjen said:


> Try placing them on your head and see if this positioning helps.
> 
> Move the ear cups forward such that the backs of your ears are close to, or in contact with, the backs of the ear cups.
> Then rotate the head band forward so that it rests on the forward half of your noggin.
> ...


 
  
 +1


----------



## newtoears

Hello! I know asking about amps/DACs is a very old topic but I'm wondering if I could solicit a few more opinions from my fellow HD800 users   In my mind I'm leaning towards pairing up a Shiit Valhalla 2 with the HD 800 and either using a Modi 2 U but I'd like to ask these questions that came up after trying some equipment at a local dealer. I'm using the Fiio X3 currently since that's what I have and I mainly listen to FLACs of classical and rock/pop/Christian genres.
 Sadly the Val2/Lyr2 were out of stock and the demo Bifrost was non-Uber. Listening with the Bifrost/Asgard 2 using Co-ax out from my Fiio X3 I couldn't hear much of any difference in the HD800 (standard cable) compared with the X3 directly. However comparing the Moljnir/Gungnir with balanced cable the sound was definitely fuller, making the Fiio X3 itself sound almost somewhat tinny (like those cheap PC speakers). The Oppo HA-1 was similar and an AuneS16DAC/Audiovalve Luminare Amp on Balanced cable was nice. Mellower and fuller then the Mol/Gung stack. Having said that, the difference was subtle rather than obvious and in-your-face. The Aune S16/AV stack did reveal new instrumentation I never heard before but on going back to the X3 I now hear it, probably because now I know its there. It was explained to me that the HD800 needs current, lots of it and it was recommended that I look at least at the Lyr 2 rather than the Val 2, when they come in. So now I've got lots of questions that I'm hoping your folks here can help explain 
  
 1. Exactly how much current/power do I need out of the Amp? I know the HD800 is a 300Ohm headphone and I believe under 1Khz frequency its more towards 600Ohm so clearly its inefficient. MY X3 puts out 30mW at 300Ohm, which is very little, to be sure. However, the Val 2 puts out 800mW, the Lyr 2 puts out 660mW. Will this be enough power? The AV Luminare puts out 1.5W at 300 Ohm and it was the nicest sounding piece of kit (way above my budget) but they were all paired up with difference DACs so I can't tell what is due to the amp and what is due to the DAC. It was explained to me that more current = more dynamic range hence the sound is nicer even though the volume can still be achieved at lower power.
  
 2. Can I use my Fiio X3 as a DAC to the Val 2? Physically its possible of course but I'm wondering the difference will be great if I get a separate DAC, say the Bifrost Uber or the Aune S16 since the X3 itself is a fairly capable device although lacking in power. If not I'd rather not spend extra money 
  
 3. The Aune S16 itself has a headphone amp that puts out 600mW at 300Ohm. Will this be enough to drive my HD800 in which case its a nice, integrated DAC/Amp package at the cost of a Bifrost Uber (plus shipping and tax). I've heard  a report that it sounds thin with the HD800 but I'm wondering if there are any other opinions as well 
  
 4. Finally a question which I'll ask in the Gustard H10 thread is how this amp compares to the Val 2
  
 So from the above I'm sort of leaning towards a Fiio X3/Val 2 setup vs an Aune S16 stand-alone if the DAc component will make a big difference and the amp is comparable but thanks for your opinions and also advice on the power/current ratings of amps. I've read the articles on amps and power (thanks but a bit too technical for me to fully understand!)  and my take-away is that any amp above 210mW (I read that somewhere, something about ability to produce at least 110db outout - which is far too loud for me) at 300ohms ought to be sufficient for the HD800.
  
 Once again, thanks! If you have any recommendations for equipment about this price point I'll be happy to consider them as well but sadly I don't have the budget for top of the line amps and DACs. The reason I selected ther Aune S16 specifically is because my local dealer has a demo set hence I can go listen but I'm happy to hear other suggestions as well 
  
 Again, thanks!


----------



## zilch0md

Hi newtoears,
  
 You seem to have made a very good effort doing your homework.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I've had the HD800 for 16 months and personally didn't care for the way it sounded with the Valhalla 2, but don't let that discourage you, as your tastes may be entirely different from mine. Without hesitation, I recommend you get it and listen to it for a few days.  I had the Vali before that, and didn't like it either, but if you haven't heard it, you should get it and listen to it for a few days.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   
  
 Regarding power requirements for the HD800, I've recently discovered that low-power operation can actually bring what is to me, some favorable changes to the HD800, as long as the DAC and amp are highly resolving, neutral and transparent, having no grain or coloration.  
  
 I posted this once before in this thread, recently, but keeping in mind that my tastes may be different from yours, as a "budget" HD800 solution for both DAC and amp, *I think the $299 OPPO HA-2 portable, which only delivers 30 mW into 300 Ohms, beats every other DAC + amp rig under $600, that I've ever tried with the HD800.   *
  
 I actually prefer the HA-2 to my HA-1, which can drive the HD800 with about 270 mW into 300 Ohms via the TRS jack or 1080 mW via the 4-Pin XLR jack.
  
 That said, I have to explain that the HA-1 DAC + amp is too bright for my tastes with the HD800, though absolutely wonderful with darker headphones, like the LCD-2 Rev.1 (shelved highs) and OPPO PM-1 (slightly rolled-off highs).  The HD800 also reveals the HA-1's "Sabre glare" that I find objectionable.  And lastly, the HA-1's USB receiver is a bit grainy, as revealed by the HD800, compared to even the affordable TeraDak TeraLink X2 USB-to-SPDIF converter - supplying a Coaxial input to the HA-1.  
  
 So... there are a lot of reasons the HA-1 fails, in my opinion, as a DAC + amp solution for the HD800, and *everywhere the $1199 HA-1 fails with the HD800, the $299 HA-2 succeeds!*  The USB receiver of the HA-2 is cleaner. The ES9018K2M DAC implementation has almost none of that "Sabre glare" (in fact, I find it almost as non-ESS-sounding as the Resonessence Concero's amazing ESS9023 implementation), and the overall signature is not as bright.
  
 That said, the 30mW into 300 Ohm HA-2 appeals to me (and perhaps not to anyone else), in part because the lack of power into 300 Ohms actually takes the edge off the HD800 by slowing it down - by not controlling it as tightly as is possible with more power. This makes the bass sound fuller by nature of it being more "woolly," the mids being much better controlled, and leaving the treble pretty much as it would sound with a lot more power - still pulling in lots of micro details at a very high resolution, with a very low noise floor (I actually prefer the Low Gain setting with the HA-2), all the while retaining the HD800's marvelous sound stage and imaging, both of which are heavily dependent on low energy signals being properly rendered - which they are.  
  
 What I'm describing (underpowering the HD800 so that it's not as fast) is sacrilege for most HD800 owners and, in a heartbeat, *I'd rather listen to the HD800 on my $2200 "Metrum stack" (Metrum Acoustics Octave MkII + Aurix)*, where all the unsavory traits of lesser DACs and amps are eliminated without robbing the HD800 of its greatest strengths - allowing it to be (almost) all that it can be. (I would need to spend a lot more money to find the limits of the HD800.)  
  
*But if you're searching for a "budget" solution,* having tried several different options over the past 16 months,* I'm very comfortable recommending you give the OPPO HA-2 a try with your HD800.* Not only do you get a great little DAC with a very clean amp, the HA-2 allows you to connect Apple and Android devices, in addition to using its USB receiver.  And hey, the HA-2 does a great job with efficient headphones, too. 
  




  
 Mike
  
 (Disclaimer:  I was a Beta tester for the HA-1, PM-1, PM-2, PM-3 and HA-2.)


----------



## mrmarano

johnjen said:


> Try placing them on your head and see if this positioning helps.
> 
> Move the ear cups forward such that the backs of your ears are close to, or in contact with, the backs of the ear cups.
> Then rotate the head band forward so that it rests on the forward half of your noggin.
> ...


 
  
 I do nearly the same thing. I set the headband just forward of the crown of my head. Seems the band does its best if I avoid angling the headset too far back. Once the headband angle is set, I position the cups so my ears don't touch the insides.
  
 I use click stop 9 (the last before the band maxes), and I have no problem. Neither too loose nor too tight.
  
 In fact, I found out that 1) now that I've had a bit of practice, I settle the 800 correctly (for me) almost immediately, and 2) the comfort factor of the HD800 is such that the longer I wear them, the less aware I am that they're on my head. This is a trait unique among all headphones I've ever owned.


----------



## olor1n

inseconds99 said:


> Initial impression of my HD 800 from 1 hour of listening, LOVE THEM, but I do have 1 issue and that is comfort. *They are so loose on my head, I move my head left and right and the headphones move. If i look down, they nearly come flying off my head.* I have a big head as well, the Fidelio X1's don't even fit my head and the HD 650's are tight as hell on my head.
> 
> Am I doing something wrong? Do I have a headphone that was made incorrectly? Am I wearing this wrong?


 
  
 Remove the headband padding, then gently bend the metal band to adjust the clamp.


----------



## pearljam50000

Are there 10 clicks for sure?


----------



## mrmarano

pearljam50000 said:


> Are there 10 clicks for sure?


 
  
 I don't have them with me right now, but as I recall:
  
 From the minimum terminus, where the adjustment arm's at it's smallest point, I recall counting 9x clicks, then one more to reach the maximum terminus. So, that would make 11x actual sizing points.
  
 But if I'm wrong, and whether it's 10x or 11x, they adjust plenty wide for my large head.
  
 I wonder that the headband width, earcup size, and gimbal/pivot design, work altogether to create a firm grip while reducing nodes of acute clamping force.
  
 I noted, too, the metal headband has notched lines etched perpendicular to the headband's length, to mark stop points. And when the headband clicks in at one of those points, it does so precisely on mark, with no wiggle or mush. The mind boggles at the R & D resources Sennheiser must have spent to execute headband adjustment _just right_.


----------



## pearljam50000

Excellent post!
Thanks.


----------



## inseconds99

mrmarano said:


> I do nearly the same thing. I set the headband just forward of the crown of my head. Seems the band does its best if I avoid angling the headset too far back. Once the headband angle is set, I position the cups so my ears don't touch the insides.
> 
> I use click stop 9 (the last before the band maxes), and I have no problem. Neither too loose nor too tight.
> 
> In fact, I found out that 1) now that I've had a bit of practice, I settle the 800 correctly (for me) almost immediately, and 2) the comfort factor of the HD800 is such that the longer I wear them, the less aware I am that they're on my head. This is a trait unique among all headphones I've ever owned.


 
 The positioning change has not helped me at all unfortunately. The looseness is still a major issue for me. 


olor1n said:


> Remove the headband padding, then gently bend the metal band to adjust the clamp.


 
 This is the first time I have heard of this, is there a guide to this or a more detailed explanation? Has anyone else here done this before, if so, how are the results?


----------



## pearljam50000

inseconds99 said:


> The positioning change has not helped me at all unfortunately. The looseness is still a major issue for me.
> This is the first time I have heard of this, is there a guide to this or a more detailed explanation? Has anyone else here done this before, if so, how are the results?


 
 That's weird, mine are tight(not too tight) just right. i never heard of them falling off the head that easily.


----------



## mrmarano

inseconds99 said:


> The positioning change has not helped me at all unfortunately. The looseness is still a major issue for me.
> This is the first time I have heard of this, is there a guide to this or a more detailed explanation? Has anyone else here done this before, if so, how are the results?


 
  
 I have noticed that, the lower the click stop (the smaller the adjustment), the greater the base width between the ear cups. Think about it; they ship in a box preset to their smallest size, and the cups nearly face each other, resting just about parallel in the box bed.
  
 I have to open the band nearly all the way so the cups will properly reach down to my ears. At that stop point, the bottom tips of the cups just about touch. They have to be pulled apart a bit farther to reach round my head, and so may exert more tension on the band.
  
 Conversely, I'd imagine the reverse true. A smaller head would require less out/down adjustment, so the pads rest wider apart. Thus, there's less band tension, and perhaps grip too lightly to stay put.
  
 Obviously, I've no concept of your hat size, but you might try an experiment. Wear a watch cap or similar soft hat to increase your head size before putting on the cans. Do it just for fit, to see if the required upsizing increases the squeeze.
  
 Also, over at Headroom, at least one customer review reports the same issue. If your purchased online from an etailer with a liberal return policy, it could be you received a pair that may have been bent by a previous buyer. You may consider exchanging, if possible.
  
 Personally, I'd be very careful about bending the headband before contacting Sennheiser about it.
  
 Could this be a design element that got away from them? I know the Herman Miller Aeron Chair ships in 2 or 3 base sizes based on body frame. Perhaps Sennheiser should consider a similar approach?


----------



## bearFNF

inseconds99 said:


> Initial impression of my HD 800 from 1 hour of listening, LOVE THEM, but I do have 1 issue and that is comfort. They are so loose on my head, I move my head left and right and the headphones move. If i look down, they nearly come flying off my head.* I have a big head as well, the Fidelio X1's don't even fit my head and the HD 650's are tight as hell on my head*.
> 
> Am I doing something wrong? Do I have a headphone that was made incorrectly? Am I wearing this wrong?


 
 I've got a XXX melon also and do not have issue with the fit. Can you go somewhere and try another pair?  Might be something amiss with yours.
  


mrmarano said:


> I have noticed that, the lower the click stop (the smaller the adjustment), the greater the base width between the ear cups. Think about it; they ship in a box preset to their smallest size, and the cups nearly face each other, resting just about parallel in the box bed.
> 
> I have to open the band nearly all the way so the cups will properly reach down to my ears. At that stop point, the bottom tips of the cups just about touch. They have to be pulled apart a bit farther to reach round my head, and so may exert more tension on the band.
> 
> ...


 
 The original post on this (See above),  *inseconds99* said he has a large head so this will not help I think.


----------



## inseconds99

bearfnf said:


> I've got a XXX melon also and do not have issue with the fit. Can you go somewhere and try another pair?  Might be something amiss with yours.
> 
> The original post on this (See above),  *inseconds99* said he has a large head so this will not help I think.


 
  
  


mrmarano said:


> I have noticed that, the lower the click stop (the smaller the adjustment), the greater the base width between the ear cups. Think about it; they ship in a box preset to their smallest size, and the cups nearly face each other, resting just about parallel in the box bed.
> 
> I have to open the band nearly all the way so the cups will properly reach down to my ears. At that stop point, the bottom tips of the cups just about touch. They have to be pulled apart a bit farther to reach round my head, and so may exert more tension on the band.
> 
> ...


 
 I am actually wearing my HD 650's and even though they are clamping my head and my jaw at least I know they are secure. These HD 800's wont stay on my head at all. If i look down to even seem my hand placement on my keyboard, they move significantly. I am so pissed right now!!!
  
 They were purchased brand new, the box still had the clear plastic bag around it and they box was so not touched that I actually had to use a butter knife behind the flap on the box to pull it up. I am 100% confident they were untouched by anyone prior to my ownership.
  
 The serial number is so high its getting near the starting number of 4


----------



## mrmarano

bearfnf said:


> I've got a XXX melon also and do not have issue with the fit. Can you go somewhere and try another pair?  Might be something amiss with yours.
> 
> The original post on this (See above),  *inseconds99* said he has a large head so this will not help I think.


 
  
 Oof. Apologies for missing that detail.
  
 Out of curiosity, may I ask at what click stop yours is set, _inseconds99_?
  
 Assuming they're brand new...
  
 The only other idea I can think to toss out, and I'm really reaching here... facial hair?
  
 I'm clean-shaven. Could it be the alcantara pad material "holds" better on skin than on a beard or sideburns?
  
 I think _bearFNF _has the right idea, though. Best way to isolate a problem is to swap for a known good unit. Check fit with another pair?


----------



## inseconds99

Considering making a small video of this, I have been on a quest to find the most comfortable audiophile headphone for all day usage and I finally bit the bullet and spent all this money thinking that this was the end game and of course this happens 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 I have tried many headphones and they all seem to be to small, too much clamp, my ears touching or the headphones make my ears itchy and sweaty. Never once with my decently big head and ears would I ever think I would but a headphones thats not too big.


----------



## inseconds99

mrmarano said:


> Oof. Apologies for missing that detail.
> 
> Out of curiosity, may I ask at what click stop yours is set, _inseconds99_?
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting, I have a decent beard growing at this moment that connects to my sideburns and I am also wearing decent sized "fashion thick Prada framed" glasses.. Might trim the beard and remove the glasses later and see what happens, though having no glasses on while on my pc would be an issue...\
  
 Going to try to make the NY meet on Saturday and try on some pairs to see what happens. Not sure if I can def make that meet or not though.


----------



## pearljam50000

Put the headphones on...then the glasses ,without them  touching the cups/ headband( i put mine with an angle)


----------



## bearFNF

I also have a beard, but keep it trimmed close. I also have a wide jaw that may make a difference. No glasses.


inseconds99 said:


> Interesting, I have a decent beard growing at this moment that connects to my sideburns and I am also wearing decent sized "fashion thick Prada framed" glasses.. Might trim the beard and remove the glasses later and see what happens, though having no glasses on while on my pc would be an issue...\
> 
> Going to try to make the NY meet on Saturday and try on some pairs to see what happens. Not sure if I can def make that meet or not though.


----------



## mrmarano

inseconds99 said:


> Interesting, I have a decent beard growing at this moment that connects to my sideburns and I am also wearing decent sized "fashion thick Prada framed" glasses.. Might trim the beard and remove the glasses later and see what happens, though having no glasses on while on my pc would be an issue...\
> 
> Going to try to make the NY meet on Saturday and try on some pairs to see what happens. Not sure if I can def make that meet or not though.


 
  
 Ok, just tried mine on with glasses and tilted my head down like I was looking at a keyboard. They slipped quite a bit, though I wouldn't say they nearly fell off.
  
 Did the same without the glasses, and they slipped less, but they did move somewhat.
  
 The 650s do clamp harder and have thicker velour pads. They didn't move much at all, with or without glasses.
  
 Perhaps the different headband/earcup assemblies account for the fit difference. I usually recline when I listen to music, so the 800s stay put pretty well.
  
 I usually keep my hair cropped short, but I let it grow out recently (too lazy to get to a barber, I suppose). I suspect I'll find they stabilize better with shorter hair. 
  
 At last, I can work a scalp mowing into a troubleshoot...


----------



## pearljam50000

How are you liking the sound so far? can you compare with your T1?
 Thanks.


----------



## inseconds99

Just trimmed the beard down and took off the glasses, they def slip a lot less but they are still loose. I really do love the sound of these things, but as I use them all day for, music, Skype, gaming and YouTube/movies. They are becoming bothersome being so loose, I was hoping this was a common thing but it seems like I am one of a few with an issue. 
  
 Hopefully I can test these out at the meet, also looking to test out the AKG 812's and T1's.
  
 My goals:
  
 All day comfort > Summit-Fi > Good Bass (Like the bass of the HD 800 and disagree with anyone who calls them basslite)> Big Soundstage


----------



## TMRaven

I've briefly listened to the HD800 throughout the years at stores on different setups, but never was intrigued by them too much.  Now I finally have a pair I can listen to for long spans of time via my own gear and with other headphones of mine to compare to.
  
  
 First impressions:
  
 -soundstage isn't as large as it's hyped up to be.  it's larger than normal, but not huge.  width is fairly good, I wish I had more depth.
 -imaging is precise and coherent.  this is the hd800's strongest aspect
 -instrument separation is not better than my 560 or any other planar I've tried, but the coherency of the sound is.  
 -bass extends down extremely well for being an open dynamic.  it nearly rivals open planars. 
 -tonal balance from bass to midrange is extremely good.  some mid-bass bloom helps compensate for bottomless bass extension.  midrange has a slight de-emphasis around 2khz, which adds to its sense of realism and mitigates any shoutiness.  sounds very similar to 560, only slightly brighter.  bringing down treble by 3db should make it very ideal.
 -low treble is too strong.  it's not piercing, but it's definitely hard, and has a glare.
 -high treble is well balanced.
 -sound is for the most part engaging, but can at times lead to be dry.
  
 I'm hoping to correct the dryness with a valhalla2, as well as just making it slightly better sounding in general.  Will probably have to resort to anax-mod to correct the low treble glare.


----------



## pearljam50000

tmraven said:


> I've briefly listened to the HD800 throughout the years at stores on different setups, but never was intrigued by them too much.  Now I finally have a pair I can listen to for long spans of time via my own gear and with other headphones of mine to compare to.
> 
> 
> First impressions:
> ...


 
 Do you feel the Asgard 2 has enough power for the HD800? do you think they are a good match in general?
 Can you compare to your LCD 3? Thanks.


----------



## akhyar

^ having auditioned and A-B'ed the 560 and 800, I found that their sound signatures almost very similar.
If I don't own an HD800, I think I would be happy with 560.
But as the difference in prices between these 2 phones in where I come from is only about US$150, lots of headfiers here choose the HD800.

I think I read somewhere in headfi that some users who have both decided to sell one of them due to their almost similar sq.


----------



## negura

Since the below posting includes the HD800s I am linking it here, so any nice folks can feel free to disagree with, or if perhaps it may help any prospective buyers:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/764154/cambridge-meet-impressions-25-april-2015/105#post_11553692


----------



## TMRaven

pearljam50000 said:


> Do you feel the Asgard 2 has enough power for the HD800? do you think they are a good match in general?
> Can you compare to your LCD 3? Thanks.


 
  
 I wouldn't say it's a question of power, the Asgard2 has plenty of that.  Rarely do I crank the pot past noon, and I always stay on low gain.   As far as matching, I don't know.  I guess I'll find out when I eventually get a Valhalla2, which is said to be super for the HD800.
  
 The LCD3 (my particular unit anyways) has been sold off, I need to update my sig for that.  It has perhaps the best tonal balance I ever heard, but it has a tad too much upper treble.  Its sound is murky in comparison to the 560 and especially HD800.  I wouldn't say it's an issue of lacking enough treble, but an issue of lack of coherency and definition.  LCD3 is definitely super detailed and the bass is super controlled, but still soft in comparison to the HD800 and 560.  This is LCD3 I'm talking about.  I also wouldn't put too much stock on this comparison, because it seems like Audeze still hasn't nailed consistency yet, so no doubt my LCD3 sounds different compared to someone else's.  If it weren't for comfort I might have still had the LCD3.
  


akhyar said:


> ^ having auditioned and A-B'ed the 560 and 800, I found that their sound signatures almost very similar.
> If I don't own an HD800, I think I would be happy with 560.
> But as the difference in prices between these 2 phones in where I come from is only about US$150, lots of headfiers here choose the HD800.
> 
> I think I read somewhere in headfi that some users who have both decided to sell one of them due to their almost similar sq.


 
  
  
 They do sound very alike.


----------



## mrmarano

pearljam50000 said:


> How are you liking the sound so far? can you compare with your T1?
> Thanks.


 
  
 I find them both in the same league, but for me the 800 edges out the T1 in a couple ways:
  
 I find the 800 build quality better than the T1. Better, in fact, than any other phone I've handled. The fit and finish of these headphones ooze precision and craft. The 800 frequently looks cartoonish or grotesque in photographs, but they're a different beast in person. I find their size, heft, and quality combine such that they're a genuine pleasure to handle.
  
 I find them more comfortable than any other can I've tried, for strictly personal reasons. I can't explain it, but after about 45 minutes or so, my right outer ear, and only my right, aches wearing the T1. It did the same thing with the Denons I recently sold, and with the Grados I still have. The 800 ear cups hover over my ears, though, so I can wear them for hours without any discomfort. That's a huge, huge plus. Other than that very personal quibble, I found the T1s very plush and comfortable.
  
 Sound-wise, they seem siblings separated at birth.
  
 I think under most conditions, the T1 present a more forgiving soundscape without sacrificing anything head-fiers look for in a headphone. I found them very detailed, spacious, quick, clean, clear and overall, quite fun. 
  
 I think, though, the very perceptive comment I read elsewhere here, and I regret I can't cite the person who said it, that the 800s are stethoscopes, is the most compelling and truthful nutshell analysis.
  
 To me, it seems the 800s present what's in your audio stream and get entirely out of the way while doing it. If you haven't very good gear, you'll know it. If you do have good gear, you'll appreciate it all the more.
  
 I'm very glad I've the Sony and the Headroom to combine with the 800, else I think I'd find them too revealing.
  
 I have a lot of CDs. I started collecting CDs back in the 80s-90s and never considered digital downloads. CDs hold up better than hard drives, and I feel like I have something to put in my hands for the money I spend. According to Sony, and a number of independent observers, the XA5400ES upsamples CDs to near DSD quality. I don't know enough to validate Sony's assertions, but I do know that my discs sound more _liquid _playing through it than from any other source.
  
 The Headroom Max also pairs well, particularly with the crossfeed circuit activated. Crossfeed bumps the bass a bit, smooths and coheres the soundstage, and most importantly, tames the highs. The added warmth manages to settle down the treble. Activate either brightness filter on the Headroom, and the experience fatigues quickly.
  
 So, I think without that specific source and amp in place, the 800s would be too much headphone for the price. But combined with that gear, the 800s are something very special.
  
 If I hadn't them, I'd happily continue to use the T1s.


----------



## MickeyVee

I had both at the same time and found that the sound signature was close but the HE560 was an HD800 wanna be delivering about 85% of the HD800 without the musicality.  When listening the the HE560, I inevitably switch to the HD800. So, I sold off the HE560 and ended up with the HE400i which I find more fun and and engaging but less technical.
  
 Don't get me wrong,. The HE560 is a wonderful headphone and if I didn't have the HD800, they may have been my end game.  Paired with the Naim DAC-V1, it was a wonderful combo.  The HD800, properly amped, delivers more. The HE560 seems to be more tolerant of amplification.
  
 Quote:


akhyar said:


> I think I read somewhere in headfi that some users who have both decided to sell one of them due to their almost similar sq.


----------



## servantsaber

I just got a HD800 for myself 
I drive with Schiit Bifrost Uber and Mjolnir with balanced black dragon cable from Moon Audio. 

What should my next upgrade be?
I'm assuming it's the DAC.


----------



## icebear

mrmarano said:


> ... I think, though, the very perceptive comment I read elsewhere here, and I regret I can't cite the person who said it, that the 800s are stethoscopes, is the most compelling and truthful nutshell analysis.
> 
> To me, it seems the 800s present what's in your audio stream and get entirely out of the way while doing it. If you haven't very good gear, you'll know it. If you do have good gear, you'll appreciate it all the more.
> ...


 
 +1, this nails it down pretty much
  


servantsaber said:


> I *just got a HD800 for myself *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You are infected by acute upgratitis, aren't you ? Why do you wanna upgrade when you just got you phones?
 Is there something you don't like ? What kind of music are you listening to?


----------



## servantsaber

Well, endless persuit for hi-fidelity is what this hobby is all about right?
I don't have the money for another upgrade from purchasing HD800. But any other tips to stretch the HD800's limit will be appreciated.


----------



## yates7592

servantsaber said:


> I just got a HD800 for myself
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I wouldn't change the DAC just yet until you have spent time getting to know the sound and it what way you would want to improve it.
  
 Assuming you listen to your music from a PC or laptop, you could try upgrading the USB cable. "Audiophile" USB cables do sound better than stock ones, despite the scepticism of many. There's a long thread somewhere on Head-Fi.
  
 Also, for your source, try to use JRiver (or even better, HqPlayer) with the best filter settings, and upsample if possible, as this often improves Red Book file sound quality.
  
 Individually, the changes won't transform your system, but all these small incremental changes will add up to something more than the sum of their parts.


----------



## Zoom25

servantsaber said:


> I just got a HD800 for myself
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Get a neutral DAC. Look into studio DACs, you'll save a **** ton of money and typically get better sound for money.


----------



## akhyar

servantsaber said:


> I just got a HD800 for myself
> I drive with Schiit Bifrost Uber and Mjolnir with balanced black dragon cable from Moon Audio.
> 
> What should my next upgrade be?
> I'm assuming it's the DAC.




Listen to the HD800 a lot and get used to the sound signature with your existing gears.
Once you're familiar with the sq, then you'll better appreciate the changes in your downstream equipment that can bring to your HD800.


----------



## servantsaber

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I guess my current gears are good enough to enjoy HD800.


----------



## q2klepto

Just picked a used pair of HD800s, are the Anax mods (3.0) available for diy? Or you have to send them in to Anax himself? 
  
 Kind of excited for the HD800s, but also expecting not to be blown away compared to my current 400is..but we'll see.


----------



## RingingEars

q2klepto said:


> Just picked a used pair of HD800s, are the Anax mods (3.0) available for diy? Or you have to send them in to Anax himself?
> 
> Kind of excited for the HD800s, but also expecting not to be blown away compared to my current 400is..but we'll see.


 
 The HD800 and 400i compliment one another very well. The HD800 is resolving while the 400i is a little more fun. You'll like the differences


----------



## pearljam50000

Why do you people think ,that the HD800 is the best selling flagship ever?


----------



## q2klepto

ringingears said:


> The HD800 and 400i compliment one another very well. The HD800 is resolving while the 400i is a little more fun. You'll like the differences


 
  
 Kind of afraid of that - I think i should really keep one, dont like the idea of having 2 open backed sets from a cost perspective. Maybe sell the 400i for a Gustard H10 and keep my Audiogd NFB15 as the DAC.  They are the same width with the Gustard being a couple inches longer - they have similar asthetics so it could work out. 
  
 But im also really hoping the audio gd is good enough for the 800s.


----------



## RingingEars

q2klepto said:


> Kind of afraid of that - I think i should really keep one, dont like the idea of having 2 open backed sets from a cost perspective. Maybe sell the 400i for a Gustard H10 and keep my Audiogd NFB15 as the DAC.  They are the same width with the Gustard being a couple inches longer - they have similar asthetics so it could work out.
> 
> But im also really hoping the audio gd is good enough for the 800s.


 
 I can understand, but I think the best thing to do would be to get the HD800 and just compare both side by side. They are two different animals so it may be a difficult to decide. 
 I love having both for when I'm in different moods


----------



## RingingEars

pearljam50000 said:


> Why do you people think ,that the HD800 is the best selling flagship ever?


 
 Well a lot of that you have to take with a grain of salt. Who are these "people"? People that own them and only have only tried minimal headphones, people that have read a review and make that claim, or people that have tried/owned multiple flagships and just prefer the HD800?
 I think a lot of people that have never tried them or have jumped from lower tier headphones straight into these think they are the best because they are so expensive. Then you have the ones that think they are the best just because they own them.
 You have to wade through a lot of crud to get to the real truth on a lot of these things.
 The best thing to do is just try them and make up your own mind...


----------



## drez

HD 800 gave me instant upgraditis. Just too revealing.


----------



## inseconds99

pearljam50000 said:


> Why do you people think ,that the HD800 is the best selling flagship ever?




This is my first flagship and I love them but they are def not perfect, they are a little piercing in the treble, they are sometimes a little to analytical and their comfort is overrated. They are so big and have nearly no clamp that if you move your head from side to side they move, and if you look down, they might just fly off your head.

I've already found myself reaching for my HD650's even though they crush my skull and my ears touch the pads, because they have such a smoothe laid back sound.


----------



## q2klepto

ringingears said:


> I can understand, but I think the best thing to do would be to get the HD800 and just compare both side by side. They are two different animals so it may be a difficult to decide.
> I love having both for when I'm in different moods


 
  
 Ill have them both for awhile - until i figure out which to sell.  If i absolutely need the 400i, then ill sell my closed back set (my work set) and use the good ol Baldoor E100.  I got the HD800s used for a decent price ($975CAD total) 
  
 Really really hoping the 800s arent too bright, the 400i is u shaped and has a peak at 9khz so i hope im used to it - and that the bass isnt too lean, which might be quite a difference coming from the 400is
  
 Looking at the Anax mods, and v2.0 uses shelf liner ...i actually have some from the Jerg 560 mod, i hope they achieve the same thing.


----------



## RingingEars

q2klepto said:


> Ill have them both for awhile - until i figure out which to sell.  If i absolutely need the 400i, then ill sell my closed back set (my work set) and use the good ol Baldoor E100.  I got the HD800s used for a decent price ($975CAD total)
> 
> Really really hoping the 800s arent too bright, the 400i is u shaped and has a peak at 9khz so i hope im used to it - and that the bass isnt too lean, which might be quite a difference coming from the 400is
> 
> Looking at the Anax mods, and v2.0 uses shelf liner ...i actually have some from the Jerg 560 mod, i hope they achieve the same thing.


 
 I've never found the bass lean. I find that that my HD800 has more bass(quantity and quality) than the 400i, but I run my 400i straight out of my UD-301 which has a pretty capable amp. My HD800 I run out my CSP3.


----------



## q2klepto

ringingears said:


> I've never found the bass lean. I find that that my HD800 has more bass(quantity and quality) than the 400i, but I run my 400i straight out of my UD-301 which has a pretty capable amp. My HD800 I run out my CSP3.


 
  
 Cool - happy to hear that about the bass, then what makes the 400i more "fun"? Its not that revealing? Can you eq away the highs and try and minimize not perfectly mastered tracks?


----------



## pearljam50000

I don't listen at high volume, and the bass is excellent, i'm not sure my ears can handle more bass than this(it's physical sometimes!) So i don't understand all this" the HD800 has no bass" thing. I'm scared to even imagine the amount of bass the LCD3 has...


----------



## Zoom25

pearljam50000 said:


> I don't listen at high volume, and the bass is excellent, i'm not sure my ears can handle more bass than this(it's physical sometimes!) So i don't understand all this" the HD800 has no bass" thing. I'm scared to even imagine *the amount of bass the LCD3 has...*


 
  
 LCD-2/X is a better choice. LCD-3 is a maxed out Denon, but just like Denon's they don't kick hard. Just vacuum sub bass.


----------



## RingingEars

q2klepto said:


> Cool - happy to hear that about the bass, then what makes the 400i more "fun"? Its not that revealing?


 
 Exactly. If you have some tracks that you love to listen to, but they were not recorded very well the HD800 could ruin them for you. It's nice to have the 400i around for those times you just want to put on your favorite, not recorded so well, songs and just bounce around.


----------



## XVampireX

zoom25 said:


> LCD-2/X is a better choice. LCD-3 is a maxed out Denon, but just like Denon's they don't kick hard. Just vacuum sub bass.


 
  
 They don't kick that hard? Uhm, right............


----------



## Zoom25

xvampirex said:


> They don't kick that hard? Uhm, right............


 

 Nope. Been there, done that.


----------



## XVampireX

zoom25 said:


> Nope. Been there, done that.


 
  
 Well, it seems like you don't appreciate the changes in upstream gear. If you would be underpowering headphones, yeah, they will sound smooth and what not, but if you're powering up the headphones like they should be powered... Hell on Earth breaks loose.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

xvampirex said:


> Well, it seems like you don't appreciate the changes in upstream gear. If you would be underpowering headphones, yeah, they will sound smooth and what not, but if you're powering up the headphones like they should be powered... Hell on Earth breaks loose.


 
@XVampireX (or anyone else) -  I've been wondering how much power is enough to keep headphones from being underpowered.  Do you have any rules of thumb or references?  I've certainly used the conversion from SPL to watts based on headphone published sensitivity, but using that approach, even the Sennheiser HD 800 results in being driven to good levels by the tiny FiiO E6 amp.
  
 But how much "headroom" beyond that is really needed?


----------



## Zoom25

xvampirex said:


> *Well, it seems like you don't appreciate the changes in upstream gear.* If you would be underpowering headphones, yeah, they will sound smooth and what not, but if you're powering up the headphones like they should be powered... Hell on Earth breaks loose.


 
 Of course I don't. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I powered them mostly from various speaker amps (all >50W @ 8ohm). Even TOTL Luxman and EAR amps with maxed out Bryston and NAD rigs couldn't get them to hit hard like LCD-2.
  
 Here's one of my rigs with my LCD-3.


----------



## XVampireX

ruthieandjohn said:


> @XVampireX (or anyone else) -  I've been wondering how much power is enough to keep headphones from being underpowered.  Do you have any rules of thumb or references?  I've certainly used the conversion from SPL to watts based on headphone published sensitivity, but using that approach, even the Sennheiser HD 800 results in being driven to good levels by the tiny FiiO E6 amp.
> 
> But how much "headroom" beyond that is really needed?


 
  
 No reference or anything, but volume is not everything, clarity and power delivery both Wattage and Current should help, also the DAC in the way it can keep up with the 1's and 0's.
  


zoom25 said:


> Of course I don't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Likewise, Power is not everything, the fact that it's a speaker amp is cool and all, but every amp has a different sound. To be honest, right now my HD700 don't hit as hard with the Master 9 as it used to with Schiit Lyr through the Single Ended output, but the bass is no longer a one note thing with the HD700, I can hear the bass hit hard when it needs to and the bass quality, I can hear the bass instrument whether it's a drum or a bass guitar or whatever. But my rig is not optimized to the fullest, I should have my XLR interconnects soon (this weekend or sunday (working day) then things should improve even more, and when I get my LCD-3 back from RMA I'll connect it through balanced output, things will be quite good 
  
 Still with Auralic Vega and Schiit Lyr the bass on LCD-3 was rather hard hitting (and not a one note thing)


----------



## Zoom25

xvampirex said:


> No reference or anything, but volume is not everything, clarity and power delivery both Wattage and Current should help, also the DAC in the way it can keep up with the 1's and 0's.
> 
> 
> Likewise, Power is not everything, the fact that it's a speaker amp is cool and all, but every amp has a different sound. To be honest, right now my HD700 don't hit as hard with the Master 9 as it used to with Schiit Lyr through the Single Ended output, but the bass is no longer a one note thing with the HD700, I can hear the bass hit hard when it needs to and the bass quality, I can hear the bass instrument whether it's a drum or a bass guitar or whatever. But my rig is not optimized to the fullest, I should have my XLR interconnects soon (this weekend or sunday (working day) then things should improve even more, and when I get my LCD-3 back from RMA I'll connect it through balanced output, things will be quite good
> ...


 

 I'm happy you found your match. I tried a bunch of TOTL speaker amps, even traditional headphone amps like BHA-1 and Soloist, but couldn't get the LCD-3 to slam like LCD-2. Trust me, power and quality weren't the issue. I did the bright and edgy Bryston and Emotiva setups to laid back Marantz and Soloist, and a few neutral stuff like O2, Dangerous Source and NAD speaker rigs. No luck unfortunately.


----------



## TMRaven

The LCD3c I had didn't have that much bass-- not as much as LCD-X or LCD2 or LCD-XC.  Its bass extended very deep, but it wasn't hard hitting, it's soft.  All of the LCD bass is soft compared to Hifiman bass and the HD800.
  
 HE-400i should have more bass than the HD800.  The extension though, is about the same on both.  HD800 extends remarkably well for an open headphone.  Its slight mid-upper bass hump prevents it from being totally anemic.  Since the mid-upper bass is humped a slight amount, and the upper midrange from 2-4khz is slightly recessed, the HD800 actually sounds sorta warm throughout its midrange.


----------



## XVampireX

An interesting question on topic though - I am probably keeping my HD700 and/or maybe upgrading/adding HD800, but right now as I have a balanced setup and I'm not benefiting from SE output so I need to "re-terminate" my HD700 at least for now, there are 2 questions:
  
 1) Don't the HD700/HD800 have the same connection from the headphone side? and if so, if I get one cable will I be able to change it on HD800 later if I get it?
  
 2) Can I just get an adapter cable maybe? From Single Ended to XLR... will I get the same benefit or will there be a problem?
  
 Thanks


----------



## iDesign

I'm considering purchasing the HD800 but I'm wondering if its too late? The HD800 was released in 2009 and its approaching six years old. I'm debating if I should continue to use my HD650+ALO SXC18 until the new flagship Sennheiser headphone is released. Thoughts?


----------



## BobG55

xvampirex said:


> An interesting question on topic though - I am probably keeping my HD700 and/or maybe upgrading/adding HD800, but right now as I have a balanced setup and I'm not benefiting from SE output so I need to "re-terminate" my HD700 at least for now, there are 2 questions:
> 
> 1) Don't the HD700/HD800 have the same connection from the headphone side? and if so, if I get one cable will I be able to change it on HD800 later if I get it?
> 
> ...


 

 Hi XVampireX,
  
 Answer to your questions :
  
 No.1 : From memory the HD700 & HD800 plugs are not the same unfortunately.
 No. 2: A little while ago I not only asked the same question but found a guy on eBay who made one for me but when I posted that with a picture of adapter the guy was making for me I immediately got a few replies from other, more experienced members who told me that doing that could fry my amp.  I found the thread/posts of that exchange.  You can check it out :


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/508836/the-official-beyerdynamic-t1-impressions-and-discussion-thread/8520


----------



## johnjen

idesign said:


> I'm considering purchasing the HD800 but I'm wondering if its too late? The HD800 was released in 2009 and its approaching six years old. I'm debating if I should continue to use my HD650+ALO SXC18 until the new flagship Sennheiser headphone is released. Thoughts?


 
 My 2¢
 There 'generally' are 2 ways to 'live with' 800's
 And really only 2 ways.
  
 #1 is the State of the Art approach
 and
 #2 is the 'fun' approach.
  
 If neither of these approaches are successful then the long term 'live with' ability seems to fall of precipitously.
  
 IOW if the 800's don't sound good and you are unwilling to aleviate that situation they will get sold and someone will be able to buy a nearly new set with a bit of a discount.
  
 800's are a 'precision' device and they will let you hear *all* of the strengths and weaknesses of the signal fed them.
  
 The trick will be, is the music fun, from your existing source (dac/amp),
 or not?
  
 And if you want to aim at the SotA approach, to really find out how far the 800's can scale, well then the 800's will be but the initial funds expenditure…
  
 But really it’s the journey and not the destination right?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 So all told, venturing into 800-land can involve other purchases.
 Or not, if you have equipment that is a good match.
  
 JJ


----------



## XVampireX

bobg55 said:


> Hi XVampireX,
> 
> Answer to your questions :
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks mate, I guess the person from the HD700 thread was actually making a new termination (soldering a new connector).
  
 BTW, regarding your Taurus mk2, if it sounds anything like the Master 9 I've got, you should be a very very happy person so be happy you made the choice to keep your Taurus mk2. Another guy here owns both amps, ardilla, so he says both are great amps and match great with both LCD's and even HD800.


----------



## BobG55

xvampirex said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi XVampireX,
> ...


 

 You're welcome.  That's what this site is all about.  I've never heard the Master 9 but it sounds like an excellent amp also.  Since this is the HD800 thread I'll keep my view on the Taurus MKII to a minimum; it's the best HPamp I've owned/heard over the years.  It's simply exceptional especially w/ the PS Audio perfectwave MKII.  I'm listening to Steely Dan right now w/ HD650 & they truly shine w/ this combo.  No veil here I'll tell you.  Not a single detail is lost grainy, no early roll off on the highs and the sound is deep and crisp.  The mids are perfect, I could go on.  This set up is my end game.  BTW the HD800 are at their best w/ the Auralic also. A match made in heaven.


----------



## Mach3

ruthieandjohn said:


> *Good Portable Amp or DAC/Amp for HD 800?*
> 
> I'm very satisfied with my HD 800 driven by the HDVD 800, but I want to approach that wonderful sound in something more portable.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I get great results with my LISA III by triad audio.


----------



## Moonhead

I listen to HD800 with Superlux HA3D with great results, cant tell it apart from the Qustyle i had before, which costs alot more.
This little devil Can power 3 headphones!!


----------



## Dadracer

Dont overlook the ifi micro iDSD which is truly excellent (and great value) with the HD800s. I am listening to this combo right now with Tidal on an iPhone. Dusty in Memphis.....fantastic


----------



## h1f1add1cted

dadracer said:


> Dont overlook the ifi micro iDSD which is truly excellent (and great value) with the HD800s. I am listening to this combo right now with Tidal on an iPhone. Dusty in Memphis.....fantastic


 

 Yes it's a perfect match <3
  

  
  
 I've compared with Geek Out 1000, but the Geek loose not in terms of SQ, but it loose in feature sets (battery powered, digital filters,awesome inputs instead of only USB like the Geek, 3D crossfeed from iDSD 10 times greater as the Geek crossfeed) and I prefer a full 6,3mm jack instead of using adapters.


----------



## Sorrodje

Did someone tried the new Audio-GD HE-9 with the HD800 ?


----------



## shabta

sorrodje said:


> Did someone tried the new Audio-GD HE-9 with the HD800 ?


 
  Upgraditis again Sorrodje?


----------



## XVampireX

sorrodje said:


> Did someone tried the new Audio-GD HE-9 with the HD800 ?


 
  
 If that helps I've tried HD700 with Master 9 XD
  
 Awesome system.


----------



## Sorrodje

shabta said:


> Upgraditis again Sorrodje?


 
  
 Nope. not Yet


----------



## pearljam50000

The only downside of the HD800 so far is that they make me want to upgrade even when I have no $$$ ):


----------



## inseconds99

I am struggling with a decision as I do love the HD800 and have gotten over some comfort issues in the last few days. The struggle I'm having is I recently got a pair of HD 650's for around $250 from Amazon. I have a few times this week picked and used those cans up before my 800's. This has caused an internal struggle with the question " are the HD 890 really $900 better then the HD 650?"... I still have plenty of time to make a decision before the return policy expires. I love the 800's and have always wanted them, I wish I had never purchased those 650's as besides those cans I had nothing that would make me think twice.


----------



## pearljam50000

Can you compare their sound?


----------



## inseconds99

pearljam50000 said:


> Can you compare their sound?




Not sure if this was in regards to my post or not but with limited HD 800 head time I will make a quick comparison just from memory. 
*Subject to change after more time with the headphones*
HD 650 has slightly more bass, smoother sound, and less fatiguing in the treble. I'd say the HD 800 has good bass, more neutral sound, more transparent sound, treble can be fatiguing on certain songs ( Jackson 5 abc = very sharp and almost to a point where I can't listen to it on the 800's). Maybe it's the music I listen to or maybe my setup but I don't hear this incredible soundstage that everyone speaks of. It's def more spacious then the 650 but not by the near $900 cost difference.

Obviously these are opinions based upon a couple of hours of listening with both headphones, also with comfort issues with both headphones. HD 800 is very loose fitting almost to a point where the headphone doesn't feel secure and the 650 is too tight on the jaw (helped a lot with some stretching much more comfortable now)


----------



## Sorrodje

@inseconds99 : what's your current setup ?  both HD650 and HD800 need a good (not necessary expensive though) amp to shine.


----------



## inseconds99

sorrodje said:


> @inseconds99 : what's your current setup ?  both HD650 and HD800 need a good (not necessary expensive though) amp to shine.


 
 X7 High Gain, Direct Mode to the headphone. Back-story, I was looking for a high end headphone solution that first and foremost has *all day comfort*. Next, they will be used for tons of different applications from music to gaming, movie watching and general YouTube usage. I wanted something more end game for that category as these headphones will get a ton of usage.
  
 I am trying to get used to the sound of both headphones with my current setup before I upgrade to a Valhalla 2 or an M-stage. I want to appreciate the difference between my 2 setups.
  
 Although at this point I am not 100% sure I will keep the 800's. I can already tell that the 650's won't be going anywhere anytime soon.


----------



## Sorrodje

The HD650 is really a great headphone


----------



## thecrow

inseconds99 said:


> I am struggling with a decision as I do love the HD800 and have gotten over some comfort issues in the last few days. The struggle I'm having is I recently got a pair of HD 650's for around $250 from Amazon. I have a few times this week picked and used those cans up before my 800's. This has caused an internal struggle with the question " are the HD 890 really $900 better then the HD 650?"... I still have plenty of time to make a decision before the return policy expires. I love the 800's and have always wanted them, I wish I had never purchased those 650's as besides those cans I had nothing that would make me think twice.




I was thinking something pretty similar to that last night

I find they do have a better soundstage than others especially when compared together. And on openness and a great detailed sound (it's all coming back to me as I type this). 

However I'm thinking that as stand alone headphones (that is not to compare them directly side by side) headphones like the 650s are good headphones and great value. 

The hd650s sound like they would suit you very well for your intended use. 

BUT I'm thinking the hd800s will stretch out ahead on sound as you improve your amp and/or dac. 

Yes, call me captain obvious. 

Perhaps you should have a listen to a few potential amps soon and then see if that would make the hd800s worth hanging on to for when it's time for that extra expenditure. And take the hd650s with you. 

You may find that the hd650s as they are are where you want to stay and there might not be enough value in what you paid for the 800s plus the upgrades. 

I bought the hd800s to build my system around them. 
And I'm off to test out some amps in a few hours. 

But hey if the hd650s at $250 suit, that's pretty bloody good.


----------



## christrz

I am a recent owner of the HD800, and I think the qualities that people speak of in the HD800 come with some time spent letting your brain adjust to its sound signature. I came from the HD600 and the transition wasn't easy - a laid back, smooth, mid centric signature to the forward, articulate, and v-shaped sound from the HD800s. I found it very fatiguing and for a short while I regretted making the upgrade. But it's been a few weeks now and I've had time to adjust to the sound - and no regrets anymore. They sound amazing.

Give it some time. Things like soundstage, frequency response, etc are not always apparent at the start - especially since our minds are interpreting this with respect to whatever we were listening to before (or so I believe). Try to adapt to the sound, give it a few weeks. or else you might be missing out on what may actually be really good sound.


----------



## Mach3

christrz said:


> I am a recent owner of the HD800, and I think the qualities that people speak of in the HD800 come with some time spent letting your brain adjust to its sound signature. I came from the HD600 and the transition wasn't easy - a laid back, smooth, mid centric signature to the forward, articulate, and v-shaped sound from the HD800s. I found it very fatiguing and for a short while I regretted making the upgrade. But it's been a few weeks now and I've had time to adjust to the sound - and no regrets anymore. They sound amazing.
> 
> Give it some time. Things like soundstage, frequency response, etc are not always apparent at the start - especially since our minds are interpreting this with respect to whatever we were listening to before (or so I believe). Try to adapt to the sound, give it a few weeks. or else you might be missing out on what may actually be really good sound.


 
 You're the first I've heard calling the HD800 *v-shapped* sound signature.


----------



## christrz

mach3 said:


> You're the first I've heard calling the HD800 *v-shapped* sound signature.




Haha make of it what you will - but those were my thoughts when coming from the HD600. I believe - as I stated above - that the sound we come from affects the way we perceive new sounds. I certainly don't find them v-shaped when listening to them now. 

This is besides the intent of the post though


----------



## Mach3

christrz said:


> Haha make of it what you will - but those were my thoughts when coming from the HD600. I believe - as I stated above - that the sound we come from affects the way we perceive new sounds. I certainly don't find them v-shaped when listening to them now.
> 
> This is besides the intent of the post though


 
  
 No pun intended, just seem odd your initial reaction to one of the most neutral and transparent dynamic headphone sounded v-shape to you.
 I can understand why some people say the HD800 sounds too bright or awful, that's usually caused by crappy music and recording. Bass light even, guess I've heard them all now. hehe


----------



## olor1n

There seems to have been an influx of new HD800 owners disappointed that their expectations haven't been met. That's inevitable when you have high praise heaped on this headphone from those who've dedicated time and finances into building a suitable system for the HD800, and new owners expecting that their entry level components can provide a glimpse of what others are hearing. While certain inherent traits may be evident regardless of the system, the HD800 will only truly sing when all components are in harmony and there is nothing in the chain to stifle its strengths. Some may be better advised to explore other options if they are unable or unwilling to meet the HD800's requirements.


----------



## Sorrodje

So I have a loaned HE-9 at home for the next month. 
  
 2 or 3 hours of listening yesterday evening with a TotalDAC A1 + Audio GD HE-9  + HD800 (unmoded) combo. Thus far,  I find the result is extremely good. Best Solid state amp I heard with My HD800 thus far (Not heard The Ragnarook for example)  and it outperforms the Sonett Hands down. Precise, Ballzy with really great fast ,extended and punchy bass. Surprinsingly smooth Treble ( the totalDAC is a NOS R2R dac but a FIR filter compensate the Treble roll-off so it's not dark ). What's the most impressive is the expanded , deep realistic soundstage. Never heard that from another Solid State amp who usually offer most of the time a left/right presentation wit lack of depth. Obviously the HE-9 is on the warm side.  I'm pretty convinced that this HE-9 si not as transparent and clear as best tube amps though. Dunno if it's the warmth ot something else but clarity/transpareny  are stlightly lacking. 
  
 I thought that this amp will benefit more to the HE-6 but in fact that's the HD800 that improves the most. Stock HE-6 treble Harshness/etch is bit more emphasized than with my cheap Speaker T-amp . I didn't expect that.

 Maybe my impressions will change after more days of use but thus far it seems this HE-9 is an amp I could live with forever.   

 One hypothesis is that the DAC could be unleashed by the HE-9 so I can hear more of what the totaldac is capable of.... I'll try with another dac and see if the HE-9 is revealing of the source and if the sound will change significantly


----------



## negura

sorrodje said:


>


 
  
 Thanks for sharing. This is very much in line with my impressions of it. It's a great sounding amp for any neutral to bright headphones and my preferred solid state in the current top crop (above the Moon 430HA and Ragnarok). It did sound very good with the Audeze 3Fs too, but with those I would prefer a more neutral and more aggressive sound to open them up a little bit.
  
 I did not encounter the treble issues with the HE-6s, which is strange as I am quite sensitive to treble nasties... My DAC was the Theta Generation V, also an R2R.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/529873/amps-that-can-drive-the-hifiman-he-6-planar-headphones/3990#post_11475414
  
 You confirmed there was no transformer hum, which is good news. If you have a multi-meter it's easy to check if they are still shorting inputs to ground, when powered off or inputs are not in use, which is not a good practice on any of their amplifiers including this one.


----------



## Sorrodje

negura said:


> Thanks for sharing. This is very much in line with my impressions of it. It's a great sounding amp for any neutral to bright headphones and my preferred solid state in the current top crop (including the Moon 430HA and Ragnarok). It did sound very good with the Audeze 3Fs too, but with those I would prefer a more neutral and more aggressive sound to open them up a little bit.
> 
> I did not encounter the treble issues with the HE-6s, which is strange as I am quite sensitive to treble nasties... My DAC was the Theta Generation V, also an R2R.
> 
> ...


 
  
 No Hum indeed and unfortunately I haven't any multimeter. Maybe I'll find one arounf there 
  
 I'm afraid the treble issues I encouter with the HE-6 I've on loan are relative to my own sensitivity to 8/9 khz peaks  and the fact that my HE-6 is still unmodded plays a role. My Modded HE5LE is much less zingy than with the stock dampening material behind the driver.


----------



## shabta

sorrodje said:


> So I have a loaned HE-9 at home for the next month.
> 
> 2 or 3 hours of listening yesterday evening with a TotalDAC A1 + Audio GD HE-9  + HD800 (unmoded) combo. Thus far,  I find the result is extremely good. Best Solid state amp I heard with My HD800 thus far (Not heard The Ragnarook for example)  and it outperforms the Sonett Hands down. Precise, Ballzy with really great fast ,extended and punchy bass. Surprinsingly smooth Treble ( the totalDAC is a NOS R2R dac but a FIR filter compensate the Treble roll-off so it's not dark ). What's the most impressive is the expanded , deep realistic soundstage. Never heard that from another Solid State amp who usually offer most of the time a left/right presentation wit lack of depth. Obviously the HE-9 is on the warm side.  I'm pretty convinced that this HE-9 si not as transparent and clear as best tube amps though. Dunno if it's the warmth ot something else but clarity/transpareny  are stlightly lacking.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the impressions. Sounds like a great match for the HD800. I am curious what happens when you change sources. I have yet to hear a solid state amp that offers the kind of holographic presentation that you get with decent tube amps, so that is the most interesting part of your observations. Keep us posted!


----------



## negura

shabta said:


> Thanks for the impressions. Sounds like a great match for the HD800. I am curious what happens when you change sources. I have yet to hear a solid state amp that offers the kind of holographic presentation that you get with decent tube amps, so that is the most interesting part of your observations. Keep us posted!


 
  
 Funny enough, the holography isn't what's missing here. Compared to the Eddie Current 2A3MK4 it's the clarity, transparency, detail and transients that are better on the tube amp than on the HE-9. Yeah the sound stage is a bit better on the EC too, but it's surprisingly holographic on the HE-9.


----------



## shabta

negura said:


> Funny enough, the holography isn't what's missing here. Compared to the Eddie Current 2A3MK4 it's the clarity, transparency, detail and transients that are better on the tube amp than on the HE-9. Yeah the sound stage is a bit better on the EC too, but it's surprisingly holographic on the HE-9.


 
 Yeah, I agree that is what caught my eye. Now I want to see if it will catch my ears!


----------



## ruthieandjohn

christrz said:


> I am a recent owner of the HD800, and I think the qualities that people speak of in the HD800 come with some time spent letting your brain adjust to its sound signature. I came from the HD600 and the transition wasn't easy - a laid back, smooth, mid centric signature to the forward, articulate, and v-shaped sound from the HD800s. I found it very fatiguing and for a short while I regretted making the upgrade. But it's been a few weeks now and I've had time to adjust to the sound - and no regrets anymore. They sound amazing.
> 
> Give it some time. Things like soundstage, frequency response, etc are not always apparent at the start - especially since our minds are interpreting this with respect to whatever we were listening to before (or so I believe). Try to adapt to the sound, give it a few weeks. or else you might be missing out on what may actually be really good sound.


 

 I agree.  I got my HD 800s last July, and it is only over the past month or so that I've started to REALLY appreciate it.  I listen to Grados A LOT (have 12 of 'em), and while they do many things well, one thing that they are light in is bass.  So I started looking at other headphones with more bass, examined the HiFiMAN HE-500 (which I had actually had, sold, bought another, and sold that!), compared the HE-500 to the HE-560 (560 much clearer, with plenty of bass, though not as much as the HE-500), then realized... the HE-560 is very similar in sound to my HD 800s that I already had.
  
 That returned me to listening to the HD 800s, realized they had a GOOD amount of bass (when run from my HDVD 800).  I am now exploring ways to also make them portable, i.e. through a portable amp.  I have been using the Sony PHA-1 (good, same bass and sound, but less soundstage), and I have ordered a CEntrance HiFi M8 that should do better.


----------



## pearljam50000

Do you now feel that the HD800 has more clarity than Grado SR80 or not ?


----------



## zilch0md

dadracer said:


> Dont overlook the* ifi micro iDSD* which is truly excellent (and great value) with the HD800s. I am listening to this combo right now with Tidal on an iPhone. Dusty in Memphis.....fantastic


 
  


h1f1add1cted said:


> Yes it's a perfect match <3
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You guys are killing me. I have wanted to try this combo for quite some time, well before getting the HA-2. And I've read reviews from well-respected Head-Fi contributors such as ClieOS, that lead me to believe the iFi Micro iDSD could be a better match for the HD800 than is the OPPO HA-2.
  
 Quoting from the Sony NWZ-A10 Series thread:


clieos said:


> HA-2 arguably has a better (*though not vastly better) amp section than iDSD micro, despite being much less powerful. It is however much more neutral and transparent. But the DAC section isn't as good. Like all ESS's DAC, the ES9018K2M in HA-2 sounds a bit drier and brighter than it should, where the DAC in iDSD micro is fluid and musical without being colored in any way. As standalone amp, I prefer HA-2 over iDSD micro. *But as DAC+amp as a whole, I prefer iDSD micro over HA-2.* That being said, they are both excellent DAC+amp of their own right. You can easy pay double the price for another DAC+amp without seeing any real improvement - and that's after I auditioned gears like Sony PHA-3 and Chord Hugo.



  
  
 As usual with this hobby, I'll have to spend more money to find out which I prefer.  
  
 Tick, tock, tick, tock...
  
 Mike


----------



## Sorrodje

christrz said:


> I came from the HD600 and the transition wasn't easy - a laid back, smooth, mid centric signature to the forward, articulate, and v-shaped sound from the HD800s.


 
  
 I mostly agree with that . HD800 are slightly "cold" . Obviously the FR shows a depression around 1-3khz and sonically it's obvious compared to any headphone that offers fuller mids. the HD6X0 is one of these.  I strongly think that those cold mids are why so many people find the HD800 dry , sterile or clinical and I obviously think it's why some tube amps match so well with the Senn.  
  
 Fortunately for me, I think HD800 mid are perfecty tuned for me. I listen to mostly Instrumental music and I never cared vocals so much. I've always been a v-shape sound sig lover.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

pearljam50000 said:


> Do you now feel that the HD800 has more clarity than Grado SR80 or not ?


 

 I think I said *transparency* not clarity. Again, *my* definition of transparency is freedom from the muffled effects one would associate with the cloth in front of a speaker, or a wall between me and the musicians
  
 And nope... Grados, including the SR80 and the even more economical SR60, have more "transparency" of the type I mean.
  
 I recognize that others (maybe even everyone else in the world) use "transparency" to mean "free from spectral tilt,"  i.e. no enhancement of treble, mids, bass, over other frequencies.  That is NOT what I mean.  HD 800 does that kind of "no spectral tilt" better than the Grados.


----------



## christrz

sorrodje said:


> I mostly agree with that . HD800 are slightly "cold" . Obviously the FR shows a depression around 1-3khz and sonically it's obvious compared to any headphone that offers fuller mids. the HD6X0 is one of these.  I strongly think that those cold mids are why so many people find the HD800 dry , sterile or clinical and I obviously think it's why some tube amps match so well with the Senn.
> 
> Fortunately for me, I think HD800 mid are perfecty tuned for me. I listen to mostly Instrumental music and I never cared vocals so much. I've always been a v-shape sound sig lover.


 
  
 I'm more into acoustic music and vocals but I feel the same way. It takes some time to make the transition for sure, but after that it's just amazing sound. And I hope people thinking of making the upgrade will give it the time it deserves before making a decision.


----------



## Dadracer

zilch0md said:


> dadracer said:
> 
> 
> > Dont overlook the* ifi micro iDSD* which is truly excellent (and great value) with the HD800s. I am listening to this combo right now with Tidal on an iPhone. Dusty in Memphis.....fantastic
> ...


 
 The beauty of the ifi Micro iDSD is that is it future proofed for some considerable time having so many potential digital inputs, and then the ability to tailor it to your requirements with filters and power modes for different efficiency headphones. Also you can tweak the SQ with X bass and 3D if you feel the recording needs it. I doubt you will feel the need as it blends so well with the HD 800s to the point where I haven't fired up my main HiFi system in the past 10 days now that I have this (and Tidal!!!). It is very simple to use with just a camera connection kit from an iPhone (other phones are available) directly into the iDSD and the HD800s 6.3mm jack plug. Its so easy even I can do it!


----------



## pearljam50000

Is the valhalla 2 a big step over Vali, with HD800?
Stock tubes if course.
I can't really afford the valhalla 2 right now, so either I buy the Vali now, or wait for a while, save and get the Valhalla, it's just I'm not sure the price difference is worth it since I'm on a budget.


----------



## Mr Rick

pearljam50000 said:


> Is the valhalla 2 a big step over Vali, with HD800?
> Stock tubes if course.
> I can't really afford the valhalla 2 right now, so either I buy the Vali now, or wait for a while, save and get the Valhalla, it's just I'm not sure the price difference is worth it since I'm on a budget.


 
  
 I own them both, and truth be told I don't hear a great deal of difference between the two. However the Valhalla 2 does have features the Vali does not.


----------



## inseconds99

mr rick said:


> I own them both, and truth be told I don't hear a great deal of difference between the two. However the Valhalla 2 does have features the Vali does not.


 
 A lot of people feel this way, in fact, a lot say that there are serious diminishing returns when it comes to Dacs/Amps and that there only minuscule differences between a lot of higher quality dacs/amps. I am not speaking from experience here as I have only heard a few personally, more hopefully tomorrow at the NY meet (if I can make it). Apparently there is a ton of "new, higher price" placebo, coloration of sound (which seems to undermine the point owning an analytical and transparent headphone" and overspending on upgrading to keep up with the Joneses.
  
 My X7 is what I will use with this headphone for a while (if I even keep the headphone), I will then purchases a Valhalla 2 in a month or two. This way I will appreciate the upgrade and truly decide whether the upgrade was actually an upgrade and not just a "new purchase" placebo.


----------



## pearljam50000

mr rick said:


> I own them both, and truth be told I don't hear a great deal of difference between the two. However the Valhalla 2 does have features the Vali does not.


 
 That's great news , 200$ saved 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So i'm thinking my "end game" rig for the next 3 years or so lol, will be Geek Out---->Vali--->HD800
 I will always wonder how they sound on better rigs, or how  much i am missing to be exact 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But i have to be realistic about what i can afford.


----------



## olor1n

Geek Out to a Vali looks like a good modest setup for the HD800. Enjoy it.


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks a lot


----------



## mrmarano

christrz said:


> I'm more into acoustic music and vocals but I feel the same way. It takes some time to make the transition for sure, but after that it's just amazing sound. And I hope people thinking of making the upgrade will give it the time it deserves before making a decision.


 
  
 I took nearly seven years to decide, and even then, hadn't really planned on trying them.
  
 Spent a long time researching the 800s, reading all the reviews I could find in popular audiophile journals and forums like this. I hadn't any way to try them, so had to rely on hearsay. Couldn't afford them at the time, really. Decided I'd rather save a few dollars and settle on a less expensive pair that compared well. I figured that, based on what I'd read, there was little difference between what I'd bought and what the 800s offered. Perhaps I thought my past rig wasn't the right match, or the bass was reported too thin, or the treble too harsh. I talked myself out of spending a lot of money, and ended up spending even more, anyway.
  
 A few years passed. I upgraded my primary source. Fell in love with the sound. I was okay with what I had.
  
 But in the end, the pair I bought - though very, very good - inflicted the same comfort woes as all the previous sets I owned. The problem abbreviated my listening sessions so badly I walked away from the hobby for too long a time. I decided I didn't want to feel I'd wasted decades accumulating a CD collection I hesitated to use, so I opted to change up yet again. I dug around online for solutions. Took another look at the 800s. Read some fresh material that reopened old perspectives and presented fresh ones. Found a retailer with a solid reputation and a generous return policy. I inhaled. I bought a pair.
  
 I must be among a certain lucky few who loved them right out of the box. Oddly, I wasn't sure I wanted to. I didn't want to be in a place where I couldn't decide among three good cans based on liminally perceptive differences. I didn't want to be forced to sacrifice one or two among equals. I wasn't keen on the idea of selling cans I'd gotten to know pretty well, despite my problems wearing them.
  
 The 800s quickly settled all that for me.
  
_Was _there a _difference_? Yes. Did the difference _make _a difference? Oh, my. _Yes_.
  
 Deep, muscular lows. Clear, alert, mids. Tightly controlled, airy highs. Clear, detailed, spacious, swift, lively sound. All that. And finally - _finally _- lush comfort. First audition I wore them 3x hours with _no pain whatever_. I guzzled all the kinds of music I could: vintage jazz, modern classical, experimental, folk, rock, opera, chamber, skronk. It all lit up. It all sparked. I found _fun _again. I felt then, still feel weeks later, I have at last reached the spot where I can wring out everything there is to hear on my recordings, and I can spend more time enjoying the music than fretting over the gear.
  
  
 To satisfy my curiosity, I did experiment with the 800s a bit. Their transparency certainly makes them appear a most finicky creature.
  
 Running a CD (or the same recording in SACD) on my Sony XA5400ES (DSD) through my Headroom Max analog with crossfeed? Spacious, silken audio bliss.
  
 By comparison, running the same CD on my Rotel RCD-1072 through my Headroom Max DAC (PCM) without crossfeed? Arid, congested, brittle, flat. Kind of remote.
  
 These cans seem to fly well enough close to the ground, but really soar gaining higher altitudes. They're rare birds. They require really solid thermal columns to get that last little bit of higher.
  
 I hate to say it, but the 800 is not a versatile headphone. It doesn't play well on all setups. They need a very high resolution digital or well-tempered analog source. They need an amp with at minimum a trace of warmth to tame the fatigue factor out of the (unmasked) highs. Beyond that, I think they may make good use of a good crossfeed circuit to cohere and more firmly gel the soundstage. (The Headroom Max Crossfeed does both, and pumps just a trace extra kick in the bottom.)
  
 Unless you can provide that vast, rising column of warm air, the 800s won't really fly where they're happiest. And they'll let you know it. And it's all of a pity because they're so bloody comfortable.
  
 If you really want a pair of HD800, do it. But do realize they can't live in a vacuum. Do your research. Save your resources. Attend meets and get your mitts on as much good stuff as you can. Make use of forums like this. Pay attention. Get lucky. Buy low. If you have to, buy ugly. But be patient. It takes time to get there. And above all, have fun doing it, whatever way you find it, or what's it all for?
  
  
 Well, I've wasted enough of your time. Time to go waste some of my own.
  
 Ken Vandermark? Vic Dickenson? Glenn Gould? Scott Ross? William Parker? Cecil Taylor? Sarah Vaughan? ... ... ...


----------



## pearljam50000

So you sold your T1 and kept the HD800?


----------



## RUMAY408

At the last Head-Fi meet, here is how I would rank some popular Amps best (10) to worst (1) with the HD800
  
 Schiit Yggdrasil DAC>Woo Audio WA5 (Royal Sophia Princess 300B tubes $1200 each X4)  10  
                                   >Cavalli Liquid Crimson  9
                                   >Cavalli Carbon  7
 Schiit Uber DAC>Cary HH-1      7
 Lynx Hilo>Woo Audio WA22     8.5
                >Audio-gd Master 8   7.5
 Meier Daccord>Meier Classic   7
 Schiit Gugnir>Schiit Mjolnir          6.5
 Various DAC's>Valhalla 2           6.8
  
 The Higher end tube amps rule, they pull more out of the HD800 and as expected they scale up with the better DAC's


----------



## pearljam50000

Vali- 220mW RMS per channel
Asgard 2 -380mW RMS per channel
Both@ 300ohm
Doesn't it make a big difference?
I can stretch my budget with an extra 100$ if needed, and there is a big difference in sound.


----------



## Mr Rick

pearljam50000 said:


> Vali- 220mW RMS per channel
> Asgard 2 -380mW RMS per channel
> Both@ 300ohm
> Doesn't it make a big difference?
> I can stretch my budget with an extra 100$ if needed, and there is a big difference in sound.


 
 No, there is not a big difference. Either is good choice. I have both.


----------



## shabta

pearljam50000 said:


> Vali- 220mW RMS per channel
> Asgard 2 -380mW RMS per channel
> Both@ 300ohm
> Doesn't it make a big difference?
> I can stretch my budget with an extra 100$ if needed, and there is a big difference in sound.


 
 Get the cheaper one and save up for something better later on...


----------



## bearFNF

pearljam50000 said:


> Vali- 220mW RMS per channel
> Asgard 2 -380mW RMS per channel
> Both@ 300ohm
> Doesn't it make a big difference?
> I can stretch my budget with an extra 100$ if needed, and there is a big difference in sound.


 
  
  


mr rick said:


> No, there is not a big difference. Either is good choice. I have both.


 
  
  


shabta said:


> Get the cheaper one and save up for something better later on...


 
 I agree with this I have both also and prefer the Vali over the Asgarf 2. My Asgard 2 is relegated to pre-amp duty now.


----------



## whirlwind

rumay408 said:


> At the last Head-Fi meet, here is how I would rank some popular Amps best (10) to worst (1) with the HD800
> 
> Schiit Yggdrasil DAC>Woo Audio WA5 (Royal Sophia Princess 300B tubes $1200 each X4)  10
> >Cavalli Liquid Crimson  9
> ...


 
 Happy to read your findings....I am loving the HD800 with my MAD Ear +HD and I will be getting a nice custom OTL in the not so distant future.....man I can not wait to hear the difference.
  
 Thanks for posting your findings


----------



## guido

I am simply loving the HD800s with my Trafomatic Head One amp !!


----------



## deuter

guido said:


> I am simply loving the HD800s with my Trafomatic Head One amp !!




I have heard great thing about that synergy, enjoy


----------



## deuter

whirlwind said:


> Happy to read your findings....I am loving the HD800 with my MAD Ear +HD and I will be getting a nice custom OTL in the not so distant future.....man I can not wait to hear the difference.
> 
> Thanks for posting your findings




I would recommend a solid state given you have a mad ear already.


----------



## pearljam50000

Has anyone tried the NFB11 with the HD800?
I may sell my Geek Out and not get the Vali, and get it instead, as it is more convenient because its an amp+DAC in one box, and I don't have to deal with cables and stuff.


----------



## Sorrodje

NFB11 = Sabre . Maybe not the best idea with the HD800.  Get a NFB12 or 15 instead if want to go that route. but Seriously the Vali is better than the Amp embedded in the NFB12.


----------



## shabta

sorrodje said:


> NFB11 = Sabre . Maybe not the best idea with the HD800.  Get a NFB12 or 15 instead if want to go that route. but Seriously the Vali is better than the Amp embedded in the NFB12.


 
  
 Not to start this all up here... But lots of people listen to sabre based DACs and think they sound fine with the HD800. People who grew up with vinyl AND really special turntables maybe not. The differences are subtle until you hear it, and then for some people they can't un-hear it. But, project86 who listens to many different DACS with the HD800 and has heard r2r ladder DACs, seems to like Sabre. Even purrin who is on an r2r crusade likes the matrix sabre DAC. Anyway, Sorrodje, I still personally agree with what you wrote, but the Sabre DACs I heard from Audio-GD just tend towards brightness, which is often tricky with the HD800.


----------



## whirlwind

deuter said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Happy to read your findings....I am loving the HD800 with my MAD Ear +HD and I will be getting a nice custom OTL in the not so distant future.....man I can not wait to hear the difference.
> ...


 
 Nah....I need to be rolling tubes


----------



## nigeljames

My HD800's sound fantastic with my Sabre32 DAC, nautral SS amp and all silver and silver/gold cables. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Also can't agree that Audio-gd Sabre DAC's sound bright. They have always been voiced to be neutral.
 But if you consider the PCM1704 chipped DAC's to be neutral and not dark then Sabre32 will sound bright.


----------



## guido

whirlwind said:


> Nah....I need to be rolling tubes


 

 you really should look into this:
  
 http://www.trafomaticaudio.com/experience_head_one.php


----------



## whirlwind

guido said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Nah....I need to be rolling tubes
> ...


 
 thanks, but my amp is ordered


----------



## Sorrodje

shabta said:


> Not to start this all up here... But lots of people listen to sabre based DACs and think they sound fine with the HD800.


 
  
 THat's True.
  
 but IME Wolfson based dac are a safer bet for someone who want an affordable and enjoyable dac to begin with  . My first pick would probably be a used dacmagic ( not the current ones). THe NFB12 I had  was not bad with the HD800. it was really bettter with my HE-4 though. The amp section is powerful but does not really help the HD800 to sounds "right". The Vali does ( I owned both at the same time) .


----------



## negura

Sabre and HD800  - just no. That said if one tries really hard it can be compensated for, but what's the point...


----------



## XVampireX

negura said:


> Sabre and HD800  - just no. That said if one tries really hard it can be compensated for, but what's the point...


 
  
 I'm using my HD700 while waiting for the LCD-3 to come back from RMA.
  
 I've had at one point had the chance to listen to both HD700 and HD800 side by side on the same amp, the two headphones are similar, look in my signature on my setup, Auralic Vega is a Sabre based DAC, when paired with Master 9, it works beautifully, there is no treble harshness at all, everything is just natural/neutral.
  
 I don't see the reason why Sabre wouldn't work on HD800.


----------



## negura

The Vega is one of the best if not the best Sabre DAC I've heard. It actually almost fights off its Sabreness. But still no.


----------



## Loquah

I use a Matrix X-Sabre in my setup and it is a great match with the HD800s via Bottlehead Mainline so I don't know that we can make blanket statements that Sabre DACs don't work well with HD800.


----------



## koiloco

loquah said:


> I use a Matrix X-Sabre in my setup and it is a great match with the HD800s via Bottlehead Mainline so I don't know that we can make blanket statements that Sabre DACs don't work well with HD800.


 
 +1


----------



## lukeap69

The R2R boys are in the house and can't stomach the Sabre anymore... 

Anyway, for those who still enjoys listening to Sabre and HD800 (like I do), just keep on enjoying.


----------



## spurxiii

lukeap69 said:


> The R2R boys are in the house and can't stomach the Sabre anymore...
> 
> Anyway, for those who still enjoys listening to Sabre and HD800 (like I do), just keep on enjoying.




I love My NFB1 which works so well with the M9s.


----------



## citraian

negura said:


> The Vega is one of the best if not the best Sabre DAC I've heard. It actually almost fights off its Sabreness. But still no.



Works quite well for me


----------



## citraian

lukeap69 said:


> The R2R boys are in the house and can't stomach the Sabre anymore...
> 
> Anyway, for those who still enjoys listening to Sabre and HD800 (like I do), just keep on enjoying.



Exactly, while R2Rs will be better that doesn't mean you can't enjoy a Sabre. The Vega is just spectacular with the HD-800s.


----------



## lukeap69

spurxiii said:


> I love My NFB1 which works so well with the M9s.




Glad to hear. Almost the same setup here except Ragnarok instead of M9.


----------



## BleaK

loquah said:


> I use a Matrix X-Sabre in my setup and it is a great match with the HD800s via Bottlehead Mainline so I don't know that we can make blanket statements that Sabre DACs don't work well with HD800.


 
 X-sabre here too, no problem whatsoever.


----------



## deuter

A transparent dac is all you should look for.


----------



## nigeljames

citraian said:


> Exactly, while* R2Rs will be better* that doesn't mean you can't enjoy a Sabre. The Vega is just spectacular with the HD-800s.


 
  
 Sorry can't agree with that.
  
 Sabre & R2R both have their advantages and disadvantages. One can be preferred but personal tastes differ.
  
 I have heard expensive Naim R2R DAC's/players as well as Audio-gd 7.1 and 5.32 and none have persuaded me to part with my NFB-7.
 The Audio-gd in particular I found rather lifeless and boring.


----------



## nigeljames

xvampirex said:


> I'm using my HD700 while waiting for the LCD-3 to come back from RMA.
> 
> I've had at one point had the chance to listen to both HD700 and HD800 side by side on the same amp, the two headphones are similar, look in my signature on my setup, Auralic Vega is a *Sabre based DAC, when paired with Master 9, it works beautifully, there is no treble harshness at all, everything is just natural/neutral.*
> 
> *I don't see the reason why Sabre wouldn't work on HD800*.


 
  
 It can and does if the system is of high enough quality and tonally balanced.


----------



## citraian

nigeljames said:


> Sorry can't agree with that.
> 
> Sabre & R2R both have their advantages and disadvantages. One can be preferred but personal tastes differ.
> 
> ...


 
 The R2R's that you heard are not that good so I kind of understand where you're coming from


----------



## nigeljames

citraian said:


> The R2R's that you heard are not that good so I kind of understand where you're coming from


 
  
 Well that is the first time I have heard anyone say that about Audio-gd PCM1704 DAC's.
 Also the Naim CD player I heard cost around £10000. I know it's a Naim so it has an inflated price but still should be a decent product.


----------



## guido

B.M.C. Puredac, Sabre as well and astounding with the HD800s...


----------



## citraian

nigeljames said:


> Well that is the first time I have heard anyone say that about Audio-gd PCM1704 DAC's.
> Also the Naim CD player I heard cost around £10000. I know it's a Naim so it has an inflated price but still should be a decent product.



What I was trying to say is that newer R2R implementations usually solve the faults that you could hear on older ones


----------



## nigeljames

citraian said:


> What I was trying to say is that newer R2R implementations usually solve the faults that you could hear on older ones


 
  
 I have not heard the Master-7 but I have been told that it sounds very different from the Ref series (actually more Sabre like) so you might be right.
  
 However if I was to get a R2R DAC I am pretty certain it won't be a PCM1704 version.
 Heard enough of them to know they are not to my taste.


----------



## Sorrodje

PCM1704 are IMO not neutral and transparent enough. Funny and enjoyable though.  
  
 Sadly, best R2R was really expensive thus far. That's why Yggy seems to be a game changer. R2R tone, Gobs of resolution AND expensive yet affordable for everyone who are patient enough to save the money.


----------



## knowhatimean

sorrodje said:


> PCM1704 are IMO not neutral and transparent enough. Funny and enjoyable though.
> 
> Sadly, best R2R was really expensive thus far. That's why Yggy seems to be a game changer. R2R tone, Gobs of resolution AND expensive yet affordable for everyone who are patient enough to save the money.


 
 Actually, what each of us considers neutral & transparent enough is always up for debate as it only takes 1 more part of our systems that may not be being used by someone else to change our findings drastically from someone else's !
  
 For myself my Metrum Hex has been absolutely instrumental in my no longer having "angst" over whether I was missing musical
 detail by not listening to DSD. The difference for me has been how "analog" sounding PCM has become through the Hex. That
 was something I inaccurately assumed was only something DSD could pull off. (I think it cost just a bit more than the Yggy; but the Yggy wasn't around when "I" was ready to step up to the Hex. Being more like a Theta product I may have tried it, but like they say "You snooze,you lose"


----------



## JamieMcC

I finished building my Bottlehead Mainline today and have been glued to it ever since. All the high praise is justly deserved imho it makes for a superb pairing with the HD800, just really beautiful!


----------



## Sorrodje

knowhatimean said:


> Actually, what each of us considers neutral & transparent enough is always up for debate as it only takes 1 more part of our systems that may not be being used by someone else to change our findings drastically from someone else's !


 
  
 That's perfectly true an that's why I added "IMO".


----------



## nepherte

jamiemcc said:


> I finished building my Bottlehead Mainline today and have been glued to it ever since. All the high praise is justly deserved imho it makes for a superb pairing with the HD800, just really beautiful!


 

 That is some fine craftmanship. If I decide to go into tubes, this is on the top of my list. If I could only solder....


----------



## deuter

sorrodje said:


> PCM1704 are IMO not neutral and transparent enough. Funny and enjoyable though.
> 
> Sadly, best R2R was really expensive thus far. That's why Yggy seems to be a game changer. R2R tone, Gobs of resolution AND expensive yet affordable for everyone who are patient enough to save the money.




I kinda agree with you on the PCM1704 being not very resolving. For me the Sabre was extremely resolving and hence to my liking.


----------



## whirlwind

jamiemcc said:


> I finished building my Bottlehead Mainline today and have been glued to it ever since. All the high praise is justly deserved imho it makes for a superb pairing with the HD800, just really beautiful!


 
 Very nice, sir.


----------



## kothganesh

Jamie,
  
 Quite the expert on all things BH, aren't you? well done.


----------



## HiFiChris

jamiemcc said:


> I finished building my Bottlehead Mainline today and have been glued to it ever since. All the high praise is justly deserved imho it makes for a superb pairing with the HD800, just really beautiful!


 
 Is the housing included in the DIY kit?


----------



## JamieMcC

hifichris said:


> Is the housing included in the DIY kit?


 

 Well yes and no the kit comes as standard with a wood base and bare alloy top plate and then its your choice to either build it as it comes or add a cosmetic finish of choice most either paint the top plate themselves of have it powder painted or anodized and oil/stain/varnish the base etc I used a carbon fibre veneer you could get a similar look with some carbon effect vinyl wrap the stuff they use on cars.


----------



## RingingEars

jamiemcc said:


> I finished building my Bottlehead Mainline today and have been glued to it ever since. All the high praise is justly deserved imho it makes for a superb pairing with the HD800, just really beautiful!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Beautiful work. Well done


----------



## q2klepto

I was lucky enough to grab a used pair of HD800s for $950CAD, about $790USD last week and they arrived last night. 
  
 Cleaned the pads and plugged them into my NFB15 - and it drove them surprisingly well, at least volume wise. Pot was never over 11 oclock, needed slightly more juice than my 400is.  I'm thinking i should leave well enough alone and forget about getting the Valhalla 2 or go to a balanced setup. 
  
 Maybe spend a few dollars and do the Anax 2.0 mod and call it a day or am i not doing the HD800 justice by not using an OTL tube amp?


----------



## TMRaven

How about both.


----------



## weitn

Amazon has increased the selling price for HD800 to $1,599.95.


----------



## defbear

Yikes! That is Full Pop.


----------



## q2klepto

tmraven said:


> How about both.


 
 If youre talkinga bout both Anax mod + Valhalla 2 - ill probably end up doing that.  Just wondering if i should not spend the $300 or so on it ha


----------



## icebear

weitn said:


> Amazon has increased the selling price for HD800 to $1,599.95.


 

 Not really ... just to advertise non existent savings 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 :
 List Price:$1,599.95
 Price:$1,499.95  & *FREE Shipping*.
 You Save:$100.00 (6%)


----------



## thecrow

q2klepto said:


> If youre talkinga bout both Anax mod + Valhalla 2 - ill probably end up doing that.  Just wondering if i should not spend the $300 or so on it ha




You're planning to sus out your amp and headphones before doing the mod?

I love my hd800 and have not considered the mod....at all

Either way enjoy


----------



## agooh

I want to give hd 800 anothjer try so from 1200 pages what's the best amp to pair with hd 800 ?


----------



## Eee Pee

How much money of yours can we spend?


----------



## floydfan33

Don't know about the US, but in Canada Sennheiser apparently had price increases for May 1. 


weitn said:


> Amazon has increased the selling price for HD800 to $1,599.95.


----------



## koiloco

agooh said:


> I want to give hd 800 anothjer try so from 1200 pages what's the best amp to pair with hd 800


 
 What's your budget?


----------



## johnjen

agooh said:


> I want to give hd 800 anothjer try so from 1200 pages what's the best amp to pair with hd 800 ?


 
 Quote:


eee pee said:


> How much money of yours can we spend?


 


koiloco said:


> What's your budget?


 
  
 AND
 what didn't you like about them last time, and on what gear?
  
 JJ


----------



## Dadracer

The HD800 price in the UK looks high right now on Amazon UK if you convert it to USD $ because of the current exchange rate.......$1951  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 On the other hand the price for HD700 seems almost at bargain levels at the equivalent of $549


----------



## hekeli

Well duh it's not like Sennheiser itself selling on Amazon will dump the phones for a bargain.
  
 999£ seems to be standard webshop price around co.uk. Pretty sure you can haggle if you actually contact the hifishops.
  
 Here I can just walk to a local store (one of the largest retailers) and grab them from shelf for 945€ = 1061$ - 24% VAT = 855$ US comparison price. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well to be fair 1099€ is the "standard" webshop price around here.. but as always they are negotiable.


----------



## deuter

My opinion is there is no reason for the price to be lowered. They sound unrivalled by anything currently available. 
 And yes I mean that,  but has to marry up with top shelf source,  dac and amp


----------



## Dadracer

hekeli said:


> Well duh it's not like Sennheiser itself selling on Amazon will dump the phones for a bargain.
> 
> 999£ seems to be standard webshop price around co.uk. Pretty sure you can haggle if you actually contact the hifishops.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for your directional feedback.
  
 I am not buying from Amazon or recommending you do so, I was merely comparing the pricing differences and highlighting the relatively low price of the HD700s which in GBP are £350 and that has to be a bargain in anyones currency..........or wherever you buy them?


----------



## Soulrave

I really wanted to get these babies again, I already had 2 of them and sold them off because of bad pairings haha (my fault!).
  
 This time the only thing thats blocking me from grabbing the 800s again is I can't accept that the paint finish on the body easily chips off and the alcantara pads on them are inferior to the alcantara pads on the momentum on ears! 
  
 I hope senn fixed these small issues (at least for me).
  
 Note: the first 800 I owned was a second hand mint unit, pads was ruined after about 8 months of my use and there were some chippings on the paint of the body.
 the 2nd unit I got was brand new, maybe 4 months after i got rid of my old 800. Same problem with the paint at around 13 months of use, the pads didn't get ruined UNTIL i tried to remove the pads to clean them, a medium rub on the alcantara literally brushed off the outer layer and exposed the cloth inside.


----------



## hekeli

dadracer said:


> I am not buying from Amazon or recommending you do so, I was merely comparing the pricing differences and highlighting the relatively low price of the HD700s which in GBP are £350 and that has to be a bargain in anyones currency..........or wherever you buy them?


 
  
 During these years I've never seen HD800 on sale (and I mean a real price reduction, not the regular low prices I already mentioned). HD700 has been many times, like you see on Amazon right now, also here locally they've been around the same price on special times (420€ = 310£). I guess it doesn't sell that well. Comparing a flagship and lower-tier model is pretty apples and oranges.


----------



## vishnu16

FinalIy i pull the plug and bought one of this last week for 1300 aussie dollars. At the moment i'm still burning it in.


----------



## deuter

vishnu16 said:


> FinalIy i pull the plug and bought one of this last week for 1300 aussie dollars. At the moment i'm still burning it in.


 
 That is good news,  I got my pair after years of hating then lol,  I  had almost all headphones except for the stag. 
  
 This time I got them because  I had the right gear  just so I could get the best out of them. 
  
 What dac amp are you using ?


----------



## agooh

koiloco said:


> What's your budget?


 
 I simply want the best out of hd800 , I didn't want it to sound thin ,bright anylitcal.
 is there any amp or dac can make hd 800 sound diff. than that , I'll be so happy to try it .


----------



## weitn

icebear said:


> Not really ... just to advertise non existent savings
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Look at the link below. This website tracked product prices at Amazon. HD800 was hike up to $1,599.95 for a while yesterday. The price for today/current has not been updated yet.
  
http://camelcamelcamel.com/Sennheiser-Over-Ear-Circum-Aural-Dynamic-Headphone/product/B001OTZ8DA?context=browse


----------



## thecrow

agooh said:


> I simply want the best out of hd800 , I didn't want it to sound thin ,bright anylitcal.
> is there any amp or dac can make hd 800 sound diff. than that , I'll be so happy to try it .




This could be another 200 pages but I heard this the other day:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/spectacularly-transparent-auralic-taurus-mkii-page-2

Innerfidelity hall of fame (I found out after hearing this)

Extremely transparent. Very smooth. The sound was a complete "one". The review mentioned the precision imaging. 

If I was looking for a $2k+ amp in a totally true natural and smooth amp this would be up there at that price

Maybe a starting point. 

And appeared that it would be very flexible with many many headphones.


----------



## pearljam50000

agooh said:


> I simply want the best out of hd800 , I didn't want it to sound thin ,bright anylitcal.
> is there any amp or dac can make hd 800 sound diff. than that , I'll be so happy to try it .


 
 After the one star rating you gave them on Amazon...I don't  think anything in the world can make them sound good to you at this point.


----------



## floydfan33

agooh said:


> I simply want the best out of hd800 , I didn't want it to sound thin ,bright anylitcal.
> is there any amp or dac can make hd 800 sound diff. than that , I'll be so happy to try it .




If you don't like the sound of the HD800, trying to chase gear that will change them is not the answer.

I finally accepted that I love the HD800 with some music and hate it for others. If I looked to gear to alter what I don't like about them, the magic is lost elsewhere.

For me the answer was a 2nd set of headphones.


----------



## uchihaitachi

floydfan33 said:


> If you don't like the sound of the HD800, trying to chase gear that will change them is not the answer.
> 
> I finally accepted that I love the HD800 with some music and hate it for others. If I looked to gear to alter what I don't like about them, the magic is lost elsewhere.
> 
> For me the answer was a 2nd set of headphones.




I only listen to jazz and classical on hd800 and it's amazing. Everything else meh...


----------



## pearljam50000

Am i the only one that like the HD800 with all types of music? i rarely listen Classical or Jazz...


----------



## Taowolf51

pearljam50000 said:


> Am i the only one that like the HD800 with all types of music? i rarely listen Classical or Jazz...


 
  
 Nope, I'm in the same boat. I can't think of a headphone I'd rather have for any genre. Fast, balanced, clean, and detailed.
  
 Though admittedly, I did tweak mine with an EQ.


----------



## vishnu16

At the moment i'm just using the chord hugo, but i just bought the violectric v220 yesterday so lets see how it goes. This hobby is getting expensive.


----------



## Eee Pee

It's called self control.


----------



## lukeap69

pearljam50000 said:


> Am i the only one that like the HD800 with all types of music? i rarely listen Classical or Jazz...


 
 No. I'm with you there brother.


----------



## pearljam50000




----------



## floydfan33

pearljam50000 said:


> Am i the only one that like the HD800 with all types of music? i rarely listen Classical or Jazz...



With me it's mostly recording quality. LoFi stuff (early punk and new wave) is brutal. Ditto anything that is a product of the loudness wars. For this stuff my Fostex TH900 fills the gap.

Well recorded material (regardless of upstream gear IMO) sounds great with the HD800, minus some bass weight with some recordings.


----------



## pearljam50000

I agree.
 I had the same feeling with studio monitors i heard.
 Good recordings sounded amazing, and not so good recordings sounded like crap.
 The HD800 are the headphones the sounded the closest to studio monitors(mainly Genelec) than any other headphones i tried.
 I think that is why their sound is *Polarizing​**.​* They just reveal everything, the good and the bad.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

agooh said:


> I simply want the best out of hd800 , I didn't want it to sound thin ,bright anylitcal.
> is there any amp or dac can make hd 800 sound diff. than that , I'll be so happy to try it .


 
  
 If money is no issue, consider the Apex Pinnacle paired with a Light Harmonic Da Vinci DAC for something that gives the HD800 meat and musicality.
  
 If you don't have just shy of $45,000 to spend downstream, a more specific budget would be helpful for others to give input.


----------



## agooh

Thanks for your suggestion . maybe I have a better combo : dac and tube amp . I just order hd 800 from Amazon .
 Is it important to recable the hd 800 ?


----------



## bearFNF

agooh said:


> Thanks for your suggestion . maybe I have a better combo : dac and tube amp . I just order hd 800 from Amazon .
> Is it important to recable the hd 800 ?



I did for ergos and to get balanced cable.


----------



## johnjen

My 2¢
 If certain music sounds like crap, it's because the signal (source to dac, amp, and cables etc.) is feeding crap to the 800's.
  
 My goal has been that every bit of music I play will sound marvelous, even rolling stones from the 60's.
 I have achieved this goal.
  
 As has been stated previously 800's are precision transducers, what you feed them is what you'll hear.
 And yes some 800's do favorably respond to tweaking (Anax mods etc.)
  
 IOW if you have suitable gear feeding them, even poorly recorded music can be marvelous.
 This is true for ANY precision device, think weakest link theory.
  
 And 800's are NOT the weakest link.
  
 JJ


----------



## floydfan33

johnjen said:


> IOW if you have suitable gear feeding them, even poorly recorded music can be marvelous.
> This is true for ANY precision device, think weakest link theory.


 
 A poor recording will always be the weakest link. If it is smoothed out or made more listenable, then something in the chain is changing it. I agree that the HD800 communicates these flaws admirably, but if you are hearing it improved on your system, it's because your combination of gear is altering the source material.
  
 My point is that  anyone who has previously owned the HD800 and sold them because they didn't like their nature should consider that fact first as opposed to chasing a combination of gear to essentially make an HD800 NOT an HD800.


----------



## johnjen

floydfan33 said:


> A poor recording will always be the weakest link. If it is smoothed out or made more listenable, then something in the chain is changing it. I agree that the HD800 communicates these flaws admirably, but if you are hearing it improved on your system, it's because your combination of gear is altering the source material.
> 
> My point is that  anyone who has previously owned the HD800 and sold them because they didn't like their nature should consider that fact first as opposed to chasing a combination of gear to essentially make an HD800 NOT an HD800.


 
 I see…
 And I do understand your point(s).
  
 But it isn't that I'm talking about "a combination of gear to essentially make an HD800 NOT an HD800", 
 at all.
 In fact it could be considered the polar opposite of this POV.
  
 It isn't "if you are hearing it improved on your system, it's because your combination of gear is altering the source material."
  
 Instead I liken it to the equipment gets out of its own way and allows ALL of the music signal to be presented to my ears.
 So instead of the gear "altering the source material" it's the opposite of this, in that the gear doesn't alter the source material, or is altering it to a significantly lessor amount.
  
 And when this happens even 'poor' source material becomes intriguing and compelling.
 Such things as distortion in the recording process, or an over loaded mic, or the signal saturating the electronics and then going into clipping.  
 All of these sonic attributes change from being unlistenable or unpleasant to intriguing because you can identify precisely what is happening, since you can hear 'into' the music and identify what is what.
  
 I hope this explanation is a bit more clear.
  
 JJ


----------



## inseconds99

Can anyone recommend an inexpensive 5-6 foot replacement cable, or someone who sells shortened factory cables?


----------



## pearljam50000

Why do everyone recommends a tube amp with the HD800?
I mean,it may sound good but I like a neutral and uncolored type of sound, and i never tried a tube amp, but i'm not sure i'll like it because some describe the sound of tubes as "warm" and "slow' things i'm not a fan of... isn't possible to get a good sound from THE HD800 with a (cheap)SS amp?
Plus, with SS amps you don't have to worry about replacing tubes all the time when they die.


----------



## icebear

pearljam50000 said:


> Why do everyone recommends a tube amp with the HD800?
> I mean,it may sound good but I like a neutral and uncolored type of sound, and i never tried a tube amp, but i'm not sure i'll like it because some describe the sound of tubes as "warm" and "slow' things i'm not a fan of... *isn't possible to get a good sound from THE HD800 with a (cheap)SS amp?*
> Plus, with SS amps you don't have to worry about replacing tubes all the time when they die.


 
  ... what's your definition of cheap ?
 I got a First Watt M2 demo from Reno Hifi and for the SQ and enjoyment I get from it with the HD800, I consider it "cheap" as in ridiculously good bargain
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## RingingEars

pearljam50000 said:


> Why do everyone recommends a tube amp with the HD800?
> I mean,it may sound good but I like a neutral and uncolored type of sound, and i never tried a tube amp, but i'm not sure i'll like it because some describe the sound of tubes as "warm" and "slow' things i'm not a fan of... isn't possible to get a good sound from THE HD800 with a (cheap)SS amp?
> Plus, with SS amps you don't have to worry about replacing tubes all the time when they die.


 
 Unless your tube "rolling" you rarely ever have to change the tubes. They can last for years...


----------



## johnjen

pearljam50000 said:


> Why do everyone recommends a tube amp with the HD800?
> I mean,it may sound good but I like a neutral and uncolored type of sound, and i never tried a tube amp, but i'm not sure i'll like it because some describe the sound of tubes as "warm" and "slow' things i'm not a fan of... isn't possible to get a good sound from THE HD800 with a (cheap)SS amp?
> Plus, with SS amps you don't have to worry about replacing tubes all the time when they die.


 
 Until you experience a good synergy between a tube amp and the 800's what I'm about to post here may not 'click'.
 The terms colored and warm etc. are but shorthand descriptors.
  
 What tubes offer is a degree of direct involvement in the music that lots of SS amps simply can't deliver.
 IOW many of those that get into tubes do so because they are emotionally involving, and the details of colored or slow etc. matter but very little.
 Tube rolling is an indicator of this, where the user tailors the sound to match their desires, and the specifics of distortion or FR or… matter very little.
 It’s the acoustic presentation that becomes involving and endearing.
  
 SS amps generally can't match this degree of 'capture your involvement with the music' on a $ for $ basis, especially with low cost amps.  And yes there are exceptions but they are more costly than what your budget can handle right now.
  
 If you want a low cost SS amp Schiit has their Magni, and of course there is the O2.
 But most will prefer the Schiit Vali due to its involving character.
 And while the vali does use tubes they can be replaced after 10 to 20,000hrs of use (3-7yrs) for $20.
  
 And lastly until you gain some direct experience with both SS and tubes, these descriptions will remain just words on a page without much in the way of knowing what is behind them.
  
 There is a reason for the recommendations that are made in terms of what amps work well with the 800's and much of it is derived from having lived with these combinations. 
  
 JJ


----------



## pearljam50000

icebear said:


> ... what's your definition of cheap ?
> I got a First Watt M2 demo from Reno Hifi and for the SQ and enjoyment I get from it with the HD800, I consider it "cheap" as in ridiculously good bargain
> 
> 
> ...


 
 350$ max


----------



## pearljam50000

johnjen said:


> Until you experience a good synergy between a tube amp and the 800's what I'm about to post here may not 'click'.
> The terms colored and warm etc. are but shorthand descriptors.
> 
> What tubes offer is a degree of direct involvement in the music that lots of SS amps simply can't deliver.
> ...


 
 Thanks, excellent post.
 Yes, i guess it's really hard to understand how tubes sound  and how they differ from SS ,only from reading, *unfortunately​* ​i don't have any place to audition amps in my country, so i will have to gamble.


----------



## pearljam50000

Does the Gustard H10 has good synergy with HD800?


----------



## floydfan33

pearljam50000 said:


> Does the Gustard H10 has good synergy with HD800?


 
 The H10 is a Violectric V200 clone, which is a pretty well regarded pairing with the HD800.


----------



## icebear

pearljam50000 said:


> 350$ max


 

 You will not be satisfied for that budget. Sorry for your wallet ... to make it easier, you should save up and buy something really decent -maybe used. If you can resell all the stuff that you won't be satisfied with w/o too much loss, OK then going cheap is an option. In the end though going cheap usually ends up being more expensive in the long run.


----------



## pearljam50000

icebear said:


> You will not be satisfied for that budget. Sorry for your wallet ... to make it easier, you should save up and buy something really decent -maybe used. If you can resell all the stuff that you won't be satisfied with w/o too much loss, OK then going cheap is an option. In the end though going cheap usually ends up being more expensive in the long run.


 
 So i should have gotten the T1 instead of the HD800? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I of course don't expect a 300$ amp to sound as good as a 1000$ or 3000$ amp, i just want to have sound i will be happy with, and that i will be able to live with for many years without missing too much, if i can have 90% of the sound of more expensive amps, in a cheap amp, i will be happy.


----------



## inseconds99

pearljam50000 said:


> So i should have gotten the T1 instead of the HD800?
> I of course don't expect a 300$ amp to sound as good as a 1000$ or 3000$ amp, i just want to have sound i will be happy with, and that i will be able to live with for many years without missing too much, if i can have 90% of the sound of more expensive amps, in a cheap amp, i will be happy.




I feel like you are overthinking it, purchase a Valhalla 2 and if you don't like it, exchange it for a SS amp. I currently own the Hd800, hd700 and hd650 at the same time. I will keep one and return the other 2. Only way I'd know which one I'd want is to own them all first. That's what I'd recommend, buy one, return it if you're not happy and so on.

I posted the question about this same thing and got so many different answers so I said screw it. I am going to purchase a Valhalla and go from there.


----------



## pearljam50000

Yes that would have been perfect, but I live outside the US so it's more complicated.
Waiting for your impressions of the HD800 with the V2 (;


----------



## bigfatpaulie

pearljam50000 said:


> So i should have gotten the T1 instead of the HD800?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Maybe.
  
 You've invested $1500 (ish) on headphones but don't have a budget for a proper amp or DAC for them.  You are probably better off reallocating your budget by getting less expensive headphones and better gear to properly drive them.  
  
 For example, my HD800's driven by my iPhone sound significantly worse than my HD600's driven by my Bottlehead Crack.  A good system is about balance (IMHO).  Driving HD800's with very inexpensive gear (relatively) is a bit akin to buying a Ferrari and putting $80 tires on it.  It's not going to drive as well as a Porsche (less expensive than a Ferrari) with excellent tires on it, despite the Ferrari being the higher performance car.


----------



## SodaBoy

Most signal chain components are competent nowadays. Money should be spent on the headphones, not the other way around. One should also never attempt to color the sound through amplifiers and DACs where an equalizer would suffice. Upgrading the signal chain is one of the more entertaining parts of this hobby, but lets not pretend that it would turn a mediocre headphone into something greater.


----------



## Zoom25

I'd personally hold off on entry level DAC/AMP purchases if you have a HD800. I'd save up for a few months and get a end game piece for HD 800, rather than continuously upgrading and selling. HD 800 is an end game phone, so I have no idea why anyone should consider entry level gear as a permanent solution for them. The entire scenario is stupid. It's much better to reallocate that money to get a solid mid-fi rig. Maybe even a rig around HD 700.


----------



## thecrow

Having subscribed to this thread a few weeks ago do topics here just keep coming around again every 40 pages or so?

I feel you can't get everything the hd800 offers with an amp and dac for $350 but you can still enjoy it. Nor do you need to spend $3000 to sit back and enjoy it. 

I was listening to my hd800 with an O2 and Odac and it was fine. I then upgraded the dac to an irdac with the O2 and it's better and really good. 

I've demoed the soloist and that would (probably) be better etc....., 

Allow yourself to listen to the heaphone rather than get bogged down with what you don't have it. Upgrade when you can. 

And if you don't like them, then move on to something you do with what you have. 

And if you're looking for views on the v200 there are some good reviews out there on the v200 v soloist on the hd800s which I found are pretty accurate.l having had a session with both recently


----------



## Eee Pee

thecrow said:


> Having subscribed to this thread a few weeks ago do topics here just keep coming around again every 40 pages or so?


 
  
 More often than that.  No one wants to search or read so they ask again, and again, and again.
  
 I often unsubscribe, then get curious, then there's the same schiit.


----------



## PleasantSounds

> Originally Posted by *pearljam50000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> So i should have gotten the T1 instead of the HD800?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Solid state amp up to $300 that works well with the HD800?
 The best thing that fits this description that I know of is Matrix M-stage.


----------



## JamieMcC

Some initial thoughts and impressions of the Bottlehead Mainline made using the HD800's
  
http://www.head-fi.org/products/bottlehead-mainline/reviews/13080


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

pleasantsounds said:


> Solid state amp up to $300 that works well with the HD800?
> The best thing that fits this description that I know of is Matrix M-stage.


If the person is willing to up their budget a bit, $400 can get the Gustard H10 and Nuforce HA200. Also if they're willing to go tubes, Bottle Crack with Speedball and Valhalla 2.

I might not have heard the HD800 with a high-end amp/DAC (aside from Questyle CMA800i), but it can sound good with mid-end amps and DACs as long as the tonality of those components is selected carefully. You might not get all the detail out of them, but it blows mid-end headphones out of the water.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I have no experience with nuforce and gustard, but matrix m-stage sounds great with hd800.
  
 Are there any tube amps that sound clean? In my experience, hd800 + tube amps, from cheap to expensive, from wooaudio sounded.. fuzzy. not bad, but euphorical, not as clear and crystaline as it sounded with solid state amps, like a cheap matrix m-stage.


----------



## negura

All the Woo amps I've heard are a bit coloured and to an extent it also depends on tubes used.
  
 Fuzzy, depending what you mean by that, but if it's imaging that might actually be a trait of the stock HD800s. An amp can be simultaneously coloured and revealing.
  
 In my experience both a well designed tube amp or solid state can very clear "clear and crystalline". For whatever reason a significant number of tube amps seem made to sound warm. Not sure why.


----------



## Sorrodje

sorrodje said:


> So I have a loaned HE-9 at home for the next month.
> 
> 2 or 3 hours of listening yesterday evening with a TotalDAC A1 + Audio GD HE-9  + HD800 (unmoded) combo. Thus far,  I find the result is extremely good. Best Solid state amp I heard with My HD800 thus far (Not heard The Ragnarook for example)  and it outperforms the Sonett Hands down. Precise, Ballzy with really great fast ,extended and punchy bass. Surprinsingly smooth Treble ( the totalDAC is a NOS R2R dac but a FIR filter compensate the Treble roll-off so it's not dark ). What's the most impressive is the expanded , deep realistic soundstage. Never heard that from another Solid State amp who usually offer most of the time a left/right presentation wit lack of depth. Obviously the HE-9 is on the warm side.  I'm pretty convinced that this HE-9 si not as transparent and clear as best tube amps though. Dunno if it's the warmth ot something else but clarity/transpareny  are stlightly lacking.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Final impressions about the HE-9/HD800 
  
 The HE-9 won't stay at home.  Despite its great soundstage , the overally smothness and the great sense of power, I still stick to the lack of clarity, transparency . I feel there' something a bit weird/Synthetic with timbres too.  For that Kind of money and for the HD800, I think there're better options for poeple who look for clarity, refinement and "finesse".  
  
 That said, If you're after a versatile amp for a bunch of headphones including HD800 , orthos and you like warmth and stomping bass. this HE-9 is a very solid contender and the pairing with HD800 is really enjoyable especially with Electronic music !


----------



## Dobrescu George

negura said:


> All the Woo amps I've heard are a bit coloured and to an extent it also depends on tubes used.
> 
> Fuzzy, depending what you mean by that, but if it's imaging that might actually be a trait of the stock HD800s. An amp can be simultaneously coloured and revealing.
> 
> In my experience both a well designed tube amp or solid state can very clear "clear and crystalline". For whatever reason a significant number of tube amps seem made to sound warm. Not sure why.


 
 not warm, fuzzy. like every note had some kind of vibration to it.
  
 I listened with what tubes they come with normally, and i listened in the showroom. It seemed to me like solid state was not creating a vibration to each sound. i wonder if there was another factor that created this sensation.


----------



## NinjaHamster

hekeli said:


> During these years I've never seen HD800 on sale (and I mean a real price reduction, not the regular low prices I already mentioned.




Wasn't it only a few months back (maybe Black Friday), that the HD800 was available for just under $1,000 U.S. dollars ?


----------



## negura

dobrescu george said:


> not warm, fuzzy. like every note had some kind of vibration to it.
> 
> I listened with what tubes they come with normally, and i listened in the showroom. It seemed to me like solid state was not creating a vibration to each sound. i wonder if there was another factor that created this sensation.


 
  
 Most push pull tube designs will "take care" of that and make tube amps sound more like solid states, if that's what one prefers. Clarity and what you describe as "vibration" are very different things, but can obviously co-exist in a given amp.
  
 Depending where one comes from on this and what you ears tell you, the effect and its absence either "robs the music of life" or "reduces distorsion".


----------



## listen4joy

Sorrodje did you consider to buy the dna Stratus for endgame amp for hd800?


----------



## hekeli

ninjahamster said:


> Wasn't it only a few months back (maybe Black Friday), that the HD800 was available for just under $1,000 U.S. dollars ?


 
  
 Not much of a sale if you consider EU prices. But I don't know what's the "standard" purchase price in US generally (again not meaning the retail Amazon crap prices, but a best negotiated deal from hifishops etc that anyone can generally buy).


----------



## Sorrodje

listen4joy said:


> Sorrodje did you consider to buy the dna Stratus for endgame amp for hd800?


 
  
 Yup. I love the DNA home sound. not impressive but definitely refined. I told a friend the HE-9 was a kind of Big V8. Lot of torque, smooth and powerful. the Sonett is more an old sports car. Not that impressive but refined with a lot of charm. more human.  The only thing I really had to complain about the Sonett is that it's not transparent enough for the source. it's both a pro and a con. pro because a totl DAC is not necessary to enjoy what the SOnett has to offer but on the other side, it does not allow me to benefit fully from the best dac. 
  
 I sold my Sonett yesterday and will purchase a new Eddie Current Black Widow in next weeks . This Little EC seems to be a significant upgrade over the Sonett but the plan is still to get the Stratus at the end.


----------



## agooh

pearljam50000 said:


> So i should have gotten the T1 instead of the HD800?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I tried Hd 800 and T1 for long time, I strongly advice you to buy beyer T1 + iFi iDSD = the best sound 100 % , I bought T1 from ebay about 650 $ ( or used one very clean about 500 $ )  and buy iFi iDSD Micro about 300 $ : it's one of the best dac/amp  . You will get more than 1000 $ : sound amazing with best detail, huge soundstage,very good imaging and very comfy plus you will get perfect score to enjoy your music and gaming at the same time  .  Lcd 2 is heavy so it will hurt your neck .


----------



## Dobrescu George

agooh said:


> I tried Hd 800 and T1 for long time, I strongly advice you to buy beyer T1 + iFi iDSD = the best sound 100 % , I bought T1 from ebay about 650 $ ( or used one very clean about 500 $ )  and buy iFi iDSD Micro about 300 $ : it's one of the best dac/amp  . You will get more than 1000 $ : sound amazing with best detail, huge soundstage,very good imaging and very comfy plus you will get perfect score to enjoy your music and gaming at the same time  .  *Lcd 2 is heavy so it will hurt your neck .*


 
 I second this. 
  
 I could not wear LCD3 for more than 15 minutes in a row, due to fatigue.
  
 Is T1 open, like hd800? i had not considered ever getting it...


----------



## negura

dobrescu george said:


> I second this.
> 
> I could not wear LCD3 for more than 15 minutes in a row, due to fatigue.
> 
> Is T1 open, like hd800? i had not considered ever getting it...


 
  
 T1 are not bad, but imo they are not quite flagship level in sound quality. I don't think they should be compared to the HD800s, although on the surface of it, I can see how some could be thinking that. I would choose the HD600s over the T1s on a very good rig pretty much anytime.


----------



## shabta

negura said:


> T1 are not bad, but imo they are not quite flagship level in sound quality. I don't think they should be compared to the HD800s, although on the surface of it, I can see how some could be thinking that. I would choose the HD600s over the T1s on a very good rig pretty much anytime.


 
 +1


----------



## knowhatimean

sorrodje said:


> >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Any interest in the Cavalli Liquid Carbon ? The EC Black Widow has been on my radar since it was called "the Red Top" !
 There's another amp that looks really interesting (but a bit out of my price range) call the Emia Headphone Amp that looks pretty
 interesting; any feedbback on this one ?


----------



## agooh

well my whole my family and friends prefer T1 over hd 800, they also prefer lcd 3 fazor over both T1 and hd800 .
 beyer T1 : with musicality and good bass and real soundstage make T1 the best dynamic headphones for me
 while hd 800 sound good , clear, weak bass but controlled , huge soundstage but very bright sound destroy it for me. Hd 800 is very good for monitoring purpose but not for enjoyment for sure . I still think Sennheiser will introduce hd 900 or whatever they will call it to correct the sound of hd 800 . hd 800 is brighter and ringing in my ears which you can't listen to it for more than 1 hours . also I see more people selling their Hd 800 which is not please thing to see .


----------



## mrmarano

From [color=#0000FF]Dobrescu George[/color]
  
Is T1 open, like hd800? i had not considered ever getting it.
  
  
 They're semi-open. The center of the mesh-covered ear cup is open air about half the cup's diameter.
  
 I liked them very much. More "polite" than the Sennheisers in a way. Where the HD800 unconditionally speaks its mind, the T1 seemed a bit more tactful with difficult recordings.
  
 I don't mind the warts-and-all approach, though. To me, hearing the artifact is as much a part listening to a recording as the music itself.


----------



## shabta

agooh said:


> well my whole my family and friends prefer T1 over hd 800, they also prefer lcd 3 fazor over both T1 and hd800 .
> beyer T1 : with musicality and good bass and real soundstage make T1 the best dynamic headphones for me
> while hd 800 sound good , clear, weak bass but controlled , huge soundstage but very bright sound destroy it for me. Hd 800 is very good for monitoring purpose but not for enjoyment for sure . I still think Sennheiser will introduce hd 900 or whatever they will call it to correct the sound of hd 800 . hd 800 is brighter and ringing in my ears which you can't listen to it for more than 1 hours . also I see more people selling their Hd 800 which is not please thing to see .


 
 Wow, I find the treble on the T1 harsher (look at the graph on inner fidelity not sure that it is less bright) and the bass less refined. But it is great you found your headphone! It is true you see people selling lots of HD800s, but that is probably because Sennheiser sold way more of them than Beyer sold of the T1. It is really hard to know what it means... You would have to see how many sold 2nd hand as a percentage of total sales to begin to draw conclusions.


----------



## Dobrescu George

mrmarano said:


> From [color=#0000FF]Dobrescu George[/color]
> 
> Is T1 open, like hd800? i had not considered ever getting it.
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting thought.
  
 I have seen a mod for hd800 where you would cover the open part of the drive with dampening material, some sponge, it really changes the sound to a much more friendly approach.


----------



## RingingEars

If anyone is interested I have my HD800 and CSP3 for sale.
 I hate to part with them, but I need $$$ to get back into a reef hobby I had a few years ago


----------



## hpfalcon

agooh said:


> well my whole my family and friends prefer T1 over hd 800, they also prefer lcd 3 fazor over both T1 and hd800 .
> beyer T1 : with musicality and good bass and real soundstage make T1 the best dynamic headphones for me
> while hd 800 sound good , clear, weak bass but controlled , huge soundstage but very bright sound destroy it for me. Hd 800 is very good for monitoring purpose but not for enjoyment for sure . I still think Sennheiser will introduce hd 900 or whatever they will call it to correct the sound of hd 800 . hd 800 is brighter and ringing in my ears which you can't listen to it for more than 1 hours . also I see more people selling their Hd 800 which is not please thing to see .


 
  
 I have all 3 at the moment and am planning on selling my LCD-3F and T1s.


----------



## Sorrodje

knowhatimean said:


> Any interest in the Cavalli Liquid Carbon ? The EC Black Widow has been on my radar since it was called "the Red Top" !
> There's another amp that looks really interesting (but a bit out of my price range) call the Emia Headphone Amp that looks pretty
> interesting; any feedbback on this one ?


 
  
 I saw the Cavalli amp indeed but never thought seriously to buy it. I wouldn't have thought to sell my Sonett neither. changes went very quickly.  I needed to find an amp that let my DAC breathe while i'm waiting to have the money for the Stratus and some things I read elsewhere made me choose to buy the Little EC.


----------



## zilch0md

inseconds99 said:


> Can anyone recommend an inexpensive 5-6 foot replacement cable, or someone who sells shortened factory cables?


 
  
 A while back, someone in this thread recommended this short cable for the HD800, available in four lengths:  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Silver-Plated-Audio-upgrade-Cable-For-Sennheiser-HD800-HD-800-headphones-/201307381524
  

  
  
 And there are other "inexpensive" cables out there:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/C0-Pure-PCOCC-Earphone-Cable-PEP-Insulated-For-Sennheiser-HD800-Headphone-/251872384871
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/C0-PURE-Silver-Cable-PEP-Insulated-For-Shure-srh1440-srh1840-SRH1540-Headphone/251917284540
  
  


pearljam50000 said:


> 350$ max


 
  
 In that price range, if you're looking for both a DAC and a solid state amp, I feel compelled to again mention the $299 OPPO HA-2 for use with the HD-800.  Seriously.  There's something magical about under-powering the HD800 with a clean, neutral signal.
  


toddthemetalgod said:


> If the person is willing to up their budget a bit, $400 can get the Gustard H10 and Nuforce HA200. Also if they're willing to go tubes, Bottle Crack with Speedball and Valhalla 2.
> 
> I might not have heard the HD800 with a high-end amp/DAC (aside from Questyle CMA800i), but it can sound good with mid-end amps and DACs as long as the tonality of those components is selected carefully. You might not get all the detail out of them, but it blows mid-end headphones out of the water.


 
  
 I fully agree with ToddTheMetalGod's recommendation of the NuForce HA-200.  
  
 I can't speak for the Gustard H10, as I have no experience there, but if you already have a good DAC, the truly single-ended, Class A NuForce HA-200 is very close behind my Metrum Acoustics Aurix as a great solid state amp for the HD800.  
  
 The NuForce HA-200 is certainly better than the OPPO HA-2 at driving the HD800, but it will consume your entire budget. 
  
 Mike


----------



## johnjen

I had a chance to listen to a brand new completely stock LCD-x and compare it to my highly modded 800's.
  
 The LCD-x's were heavy and would get rather humid after only about an hour of listening.
 That was a big drawback, especially for long term ownership.
  
 And while the bass was impressive on the LCD-x's, the bass from my 800's is more refined/defined, goes lower, has more precise impact, among other traits.
  
 But the biggest drawback for me was the darkness the LCD-x's had.
 Yes it had top end but it was no where near as articulate nor as well balanced as what is heard from the 800's or even my near field speakers.
  
 I could see how many would like the LCD-x as they tend to be 'polite' in terms of inner detail and they have a type of veil that minimizes harshness.
 And with their bass emphasis, are rather impressive, and once you get accustom to their sonic signature are overall quite pleasant.
  
 JJ


----------



## inseconds99

zilch0md said:


> A while back, someone in this thread recommended this short cable for the HD800, available in four lengths:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Silver-Plated-Audio-upgrade-Cable-For-Sennheiser-HD800-HD-800-headphones-/201307381524
> 
> ...




Does anyone have experience with this cable or can recommend a shorter one? I want to stay around 5-6 feet, don't need an "upgraded cable" just something with the same quality as the stock is fine. I don't put a ton of stock in cables, I just can't stand the length of the stock one.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

inseconds99 said:


> Does anyone have experience with this cable or can recommend a shorter one? I want to stay around 5-6 feet, don't need an "upgraded cable" just something with the same quality as the stock is fine. I don't put a ton of stock in cables, I just can't stand the length of the stock one.


 

 I have it... I am the one that @zilch0md mentioned a few posts above ("someone in this thread recommended...").
  
 It is superb.  Its construction is delightful, including a1/8 jack, woven cloth covering, a screw-on 1/4" adapter, a thin cross section, a light weight, and a Y branch reinforced with a brushed-metal sheath.  It sounds indistinguishable from the original Sennheiser cable.  Its only disadvantage is that it is rather stiff... small diameter cable with enough conductor diameter to make it rather stiff, but is really just fine.
  
 It comes in a choice of 4 lengths:  1.2m (which is what I have), 1.5m, 1.8m. and 2.1m.


----------



## zilch0md

ruthieandjohn said:


> I have it... I am the one that @zilch0md
> mentioned a few posts above ("someone in this thread recommended...").
> 
> It is superb.  Its construction is delightful, including a1/8 jack, woven cloth covering, a screw-on 1/4" adapter, a thin cross section, a light weight, and a Y branch reinforced with a brushed-metal sheath.  It sounds indistinguishable from the original Sennheiser cable.  Its only disadvantage is that it is rather stiff... small diameter cable with enough conductor diameter to make it rather stiff, but is really just fine.
> ...




Thanks for those details!

Mike


----------



## q2klepto

Anyone have any thoughts on how the Valhalla 2 might stack up against Cavalli Liquid Carbon? Tubes vs Solid State Balanced? I know the LC is twice the price, but the Val2 is a highly recommended pairing with the HD800.


----------



## lamboy1

just ordered the woo stand in black. thanks


----------



## ubs28

]





pearljam50000 said:


> Am i the only one that like the HD800 with all types of music? i rarely listen Classical or Jazz...




Me too. I use the HD800 with every type of music. Sounds great.


----------



## MickeyVee

I listen to the HD800 with every type of music from Dubstep to classic 70s-90s, new music, Sinatra, Patricia Barber and the list goes on.  Can go from Deadmou5 to Sinatra to Brubeck back to back and all sounds amazing.
  
 Quote:


ubs28 said:


>


----------



## Sorrodje

I'm listening to everything as well. But there's not so much rock and pop in Music library so my testimony is maybe not useful for most hobbyists here.


----------



## q2klepto

ubs28 said:


> Me too. I use the HD800 with every type of music. Sounds great.




Me too - i have the 400is beside me, and while they also sound amazing - the sound stage and more natural sound of the 800s is more compelling.

The extra bass impact from the 400is is nice though, but i feel the 800s make them feel slightly congested in comparison (which i never noticed before with the 400i)


----------



## pearljam50000

So far I feel the HD800 are best with electronic music(speed ,details and separation are unreal) and old prog rock(Yes, Genesis,Led Zep, Pink Floyd) and any music that is recorded well


----------



## RUMAY408

q2klepto said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on how the Valhalla 2 might stack up against Cavalli Liquid Carbon? Tubes vs Solid State Balanced? I know the LC is twice the price, but the Val2 is a highly recommended pairing with the HD800.


 

 Just back from a meet and the Cavalli Liquid Carbon is better, but not 2X's better


----------



## Taowolf51

pearljam50000 said:


> So far I feel the HD800 are best with electronic music(speed ,details and separation are unreal) and old prog rock(Yes, Genesis,Led Zep, Pink Floyd) and any music that is recorded well


 
  
 The HD800's technicalities pair really well with electronic music. The HD800's have a naturally sharp rising transient and a quick decay, which exaggerate the bite and clean sound you get with a lot of electronic. Other headphones like the HD600, D7000, and LCD-2 have less sharp and quick rising transients with longer decay, which more strongly represents sound interactions with a room.


----------



## Blackmore

This 2CD anjunadeep 3 collection is very nice
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEZOnlS7bng&list=PL1761ECA5F9CDEF37


----------



## Zoom25

blackmore said:


> This 2CD anjunadeep 3 collection is very nice
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEZOnlS7bng&list=PL1761ECA5F9CDEF37


 

 LOL I read this while listening to 04.


----------



## mrmarano

A little light reading, courtesy of the United States Patent and Trademark Office.
  
 Haven't found these anywhere else in the forums. Seems as good a place as any to submit. Apologies if already posted.


----------



## Nudel

sorrodje said:


> I'm listening to everything as well. But there's not so much rock and pop in Music library so my testimony is maybe not useful for most hobbyists here.


 
  
 Well... You should listen to older rock recordings. I'm still finding a new sounds in old songs
 Old recordings sounds more analog-like and can brings you a lot of pleasure. Things get complicated with new "fancy'' songs... Welcome to the future


----------



## Sorrodje

THks for the suggestion Nudel but for me it's not a matter of recording. Although I was born in 1970 , rock has never been my musical culture and as long as I can remember, i've always prefered Funk, R&B, Jazz . My parents have always listened to classical and I've been a Jazz musician (played Saxophones)  when I was Younger. I juste added more and more EDMs in last years and you have the whole picture. I'm always glad to love new music though so sometimes I discover Rock and Metal I really like , thks to my friend who are more in those music genre


----------



## alvin sawdust

taowolf51 said:


> The HD800's technicalities pair really well with electronic music. The HD800's have a naturally sharp rising transient and a quick decay, which exaggerate the bite and clean sound you get with a lot of electronic. Other headphones like the HD600, D7000, and LCD-2 have less sharp and quick rising transients with longer decay, which more strongly represents sound interactions with a room.


 
 Totally agree here. Since getting my 800s last week I have been trawling through my FSOL and Orb albums. Musically engrossing and they aren't fully burned in yet.


----------



## pearljam50000

I have about 10 hours on mine, how much better will they be after burn in?


----------



## knowhatimean

sorrodje said:


> THks for the suggestion Nudel but for me it's not a matter of recording. Although I was born in 1970 , rock has never been my musical culture and as long as I can remember, i've always prefered Funk, R&B, Jazz . My parents have always listened to classical and I've been a Jazz musician (played Saxophones)  when I was Younger. I juste added more and more EDMs in last years and you have the whole picture. I'm always glad to love new music though so sometimes I discover Rock and Metal I really like , thks to my friend who are more in those music genre


 
 So whose "bright" idea was it to invent the Soprano Saxophone (Did they at least tar & feather him ?)
  
 Though to be honest it may not be as objectionable sounding buried (deeply:very deeply) in an Orchestral section !


----------



## alvin sawdust

pearljam50000 said:


> I have about 10 hours on mine, how much better will they be after burn in?


 
 Some people hear a difference, some don't. It's not a discussion I want to get into too deep but every headphone I have had has benefited from a couple of hundred hours continuous use. Smooths out the rough edges somewhat.
 Anyway, time will tell with these phones but already they sound phenomenal to me and I am considering off loading my LCD-3f.


----------



## Sorrodje

knowhatimean said:


> So whose "bright" idea was it to invent the Soprano Saxophone (Did they at least tar & feather him ?)
> 
> Though to be honest it may not be as objectionable sounding buried (deeply:very deeply) in an Orchestral section !


 
  
 Adolphe Sax created all the familly. I loved to play Soprano Saxophone and I love to listen to many soprano players . Dave Liebman for example.


----------



## johnjen

pearljam50000 said:


> I have about 10 hours on mine, how much better will they be after burn in?


 
 You tell us!
  
 JJ


----------



## knowhatimean

sorrodje said:


> knowhatimean said:
> 
> 
> > So whose "bright" idea was it to invent the Soprano Saxophone (Did they at least tar & feather him ?)
> ...


 
 I'm probably just overly negatively affected by all the horrible sounding Kenny G recordings that were constantly being overplayed
 years ago ! I suppose it didn't help I really disliked the "wanna-be Jazz" type arrangements he played !
  
 John Coltrane is probably still turning over in his grave from that music !
  
 (I guess you shouldn't base a judgement of a musical instrument on your exposure to the way it sounds on music that fails to sound musical to you) (or was the combination of deficient recording quality,along with non inventive musical arrangements at fault here ?)


----------



## Dragonsan

Anyone else here feel their ears go numb* after listening to these? 
  
  
 It's a very dull, numb pain in my ears. It's the first time it's really happened while listening to these. I only listened for about 30 minutes at about 1/4 volume.. o.o


----------



## chuckwheat

dragonsan said:


> Anyone else here feel their ears go numb* after listening to these?
> 
> 
> It's a very dull, numb pain in my ears. It's the first time it's really happened while listening to these. I only listened for about 30 minutes at about 1/4 volume.. o.o


 
 I've not experienced that... Ears are affected by a bunch of things from diet to the current weather. Maybe it's something else.


----------



## Sorrodje

knowhatimean said:


> I'm probably just overly negatively affected by all the horrible sounding Kenny G recordings that were constantly being overplayed
> years ago ! I suppose it didn't help I really disliked the "wanna-be Jazz" type arrangements he played !
> 
> John Coltrane is probably still turning over in his grave from that music !
> ...


 
  
 Ah ok. I see better where you come from.  didn't hear a single note of Kenny-G myself 
  
 Dave Liebman, Brandford Marsalis, John Coltrane, Wayne Shorter are among the best soprano sax players.   I'm a huge fan of miles Davis' Decoy.. Brandford Marsalis plays stellar soprano Sax chorus in this album.


----------



## Dopaminer

sorrodje said:


> Ah ok. I see better where you come from.  didn't hear a single note of Kenny-G myself
> 
> Dave Liebman, Brandford Marsalis, John Coltrane, Wayne Shorter are among the best soprano sax players.   I'm a huge fan of miles Davis' Decoy.. Brandford Marsalis plays stellar soprano Sax chorus in this album.


 

 Joshua Redman !


----------



## Sorrodje

dopaminer said:


> Joshua Redman !


 
  
  
 Indeed !


----------



## mrmarano

dopaminer said:


> Joshua Redman !


 
  
 All good names. But two words...
  
 Sidney Bechet.


----------



## SONYES




----------



## citraian

Surround HD800


----------



## SONYES




----------



## SONYES

citraian said:


> Surround HD800


 
 YES 4 HD 800 EVERY ONE DEFERNT SOUND


----------



## SONYES




----------



## HiFiChris

@SONYES:
  
 Reminds me of this:
  

  





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Can you describe a little further in what areas your four Senns differ? If you really keep all of them, you're a real HD 800 enthusiasi.


----------



## RingingEars

sonyes said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
 Holy smokes. You sir are hardcore.


----------



## SONYES

hifichris said:


> @SONYES:
> 
> Reminds me of this:
> 
> ...


 
 THANK YOU 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Indeed all different in their sound.Fourth headphones is from Forum member belong to him I have only 3 pairs
  
 Came to me to hear the  Laxman and all my gaer
  
 He was so surprised that my dac. 1987 Marantz CDA-94 and a transport DVP-S9000ES - and recording of Bernstein 1958 St. George Hotel was recorded by Columbia -Stravinsky Firebird
  
 Marantz with a dedicated headphone amplifier - rare
  
 Appeared this way open sound Sound Stage and wide open deep you almost forget that you are listening to headphones - after hearing his amp lamps that were Notig Lake Marantz amplifier-pearl within the world of Audiophile


----------



## HiFiChris

sonyes said:


> Indeed all different in their sound.Fourth headphones is from Forum member belong to him I have only 3 pairs


 
 Ah, okay, I already thought you had bought your fourth pair of 800s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Can you describe a little *how* your three Senns differ from each other? I mean tonality, soundstage and such.


----------



## SONYES

ringingears said:


> Holy smokes. You sir are hardcore.


 
 THANK YOU YES  I AM


----------



## SONYES

hifichris said:


> Ah, okay, I already thought you had bought your fourth pair of 800s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It will take a long time to explain if you do not mind, I wrote to a friend Forum -  my English is not really good - I use Gogol translator - then make copy and paste the answer I wrote to a friend OK?


----------



## HiFiChris

@SONYES: Sure, that will be fine if you just translate it with google.


----------



## SONYES

hifichris said:


> Ah, okay, I already thought you had bought your fourth pair of 800s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 THE NEW ONE 
  2014.3.29  PRODUCTION S/N  291XX I HAVE THEM FROM 22.5.2014 IS NEW .
 TODAY  IT IS VERY GOOD FULL CALER 
 VERY GOOD  IN ALL SPCTERUM HIGH/MID/BASS
  
 2012 FROM 27.8.2013 2TH HAND  S/N 159XX
  
 2011 FROM  6.7.2014  2TH HAND S/N  123XX
  
 2014 A BIT LUDER IT S/N 291XX
 HAS VERY FULL SOUND  HAVEY BASS MIDS ARE FULL HIGHS ARE VERY GOOD BUT NOT 
 AS 2012/2014 SOUND  ARE  123XX IS 2011  IT HAS MORE 6KHZ UP VERY OPEN LAREG SOUND STEGE 9.5
   ....
 2012 IS  159XX  14/2/2012 
 HAVE LESS LOUD  LESS 6KHZ VERY FLAT VERY!
  
 VERY VERY   LAREG SOUNDSTEG 2011/2012 WOWֱֱֱ!!!  10
  
 2014 LESS WIDE  BY  1-10  IS  9
 GET BATER AND BATER FROM THER WAER NEW.
 FOR  THE NEW ONE BUT FULL SOUND  VREY DEFERNT  FROM
  
 2012  1-10  IS  10 SOUNDSTEGE
 2011   1-10 IS   9.5
  
 2012  159XX  IS SO WELL IN EVERTING  MY MOST IN USE FOR ALL DAYS 
  
 ALSO MY REFERANS VERY EASYY ON MY EAR LIKE STAX ELCTROSTATIC RAELY!!
 THE 159XX FROM 2012
  
 THE NEW ONE IS FOR VERY GOOD RCORDING FROM 50/60S RCA/ EMI/DGG/CBS
 BERNSTIN
 ORMANDY
 RINER
 SO ON +LUXMAN P-1U+SA11 S1 IS  WOW!!!
  
 THE 2011   HD800 IS VERY CLER MIDS HIGH TERBAL
 BASS NOT STRONG AS 2014
 TO USE IN VERY CLOSE FOGE RECRDING  1970S TO TODAY EMI
  
  
 SA-11 S1+LUXMAN P-1U IN XLR VERY GOOD ONES QURLTIUM BLAK 350GBP+-
  
 ALL 3 HD 800 HAVE 3 Types  OF SOUND


----------



## Zoom25

This comparison would be better if you put new earpads on all 4 headphones.


----------



## HiFiChris

zoom25 said:


> This comparison would be better if you put new earpads on all 4 headphones.


 
  
 Ture, here's an interesting article. http://www.headfonia.com/what-happens-as-the-cushion-pads-ages/.
 It happened multiple times that someone over here in Germany changed the pads of their headphones because they were pretty much worn out. The result was that they roported the sound to have dramatically changed. The main reason for the changes in tonality is caused by a closer distance to your ear as the pads wear out. If you have any closed-back headphones or earbuds, apply a certain ammount of pressure to them and you will notice that there will be more bass, which is also the reason why the Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro (I haven't auditioned the Pro yet) is reported to have more bass than the DT880 Edition despite they use the same driver and housing (at least I was told so) which is due to the headband is able to produce more clamping pressure, .


----------



## SONYES

hifichris said:


> Ture, here's an interesting article. http://www.headfonia.com/what-happens-as-the-cushion-pads-ages/.
> It happened multiple times that someone over here in Germany changed the pads of their headphones because they were pretty much worn out. The result was that they roported the sound to have dramatically changed. The main reason for the changes in tonality is caused by a closer distance to your ear as the pads wear out. If you have any closed-back headphones or earbuds, apply a certain ammount of pressure to them and you will notice that there will be more bass, which is also the reason why the Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro (I haven't auditioned the Pro yet) is reported to have more bass than the DT880 Edition despite they use the same driver and housing (at least I was told so) which is due to the headband is able to produce more clamping pressure, .


 
 yes i knew that  1 is new
 2 is   pads wear 
  3  is as good as new 
  
 the 2 i us it all the time 
  
  but the soud is very differnt  1>2>3  white  pads  i terad  all  white new pads of  291xx   the soud was on  every one hed his  differnt  from  3,1,2  so to me no big thing 
  
 they sound  as thay are 
  
  
 i had the dt-880 pro +dt990 600 ohm
   t-1
  
 no one is like hd800


----------



## SONYES

also i notest that the matral of the new hd800 s/n 291xx   is  very differnt from 159xx/122xx
  
 the new is differnt and fill differnt  from old hd800


----------



## listen4joy

they indeed sound different from each other. one of them is with bigger bass, the other is more flat, mine (the 4th) have bigger and wider sound stage and dynamics ​ and to me i have more "air" in the songs and​resolutionis better, the strange thing i notice that my pair is also feel more heavy in few grams than the others.​  
the most amazing thing i notice that his ​MARANTZ CDA-94 DAC slash all his gear in SQ including Luxman p-1U. and this dac is from 1987. i asked my self what the hell they put down there. everything just sound so pale next to this magnificant Dac/AMP. it has so much presence  and warm in the songs. 
  
 now i see why purrin put "old" dacs in high ranks. they put a shame a lot of big brands and names. i wonder how yggy will sound next to it (-:.
  
 it has that vintage old magic


----------



## icebear

listen4joy said:


> they indeed sound different from each other. one of them is with bigger bass, the other is more flat mine (the 4th) have bigger and wider sound stage and dynamics ​ and to me i have more "air" in the songs and​resolutionis better, the strange thing i notice that my pair is *also feel more heavy in few grams than the others.*​


 
*This* most likely is the easiest to verify:
 Take off cable, ear and head pads and out all headphones on a percision balance...


----------



## icebear

double post sorry


----------



## pearljam50000

From meomry only, sold it years ago- my old pair( 3,000 or so) had less bass then my new one 30,000+ ,close to 40,000)
So i tend to belive the sound has changed over time(for the better)
Maybe its's just that the workers build them better now because they have years of exprience building them (;


----------



## inseconds99

I am looking to purchase a 4 to 5 foot cable for the HD800, I am not looking to spend tons of money on a replacment cable and am not looking for any change in sound. Equal to stock is just fine as this is just for gaming purposes to my X7, I was looking at this cable ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Replacement-cable-with-remote-mic-for-iphone-to-Sennheiser-HD800-headphone-/311343401394?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item487d8349b2 ) as it will do 2 things for me. 1 it will be a short black cable and 2 it will have a built in mic that I could use when I am gaming with my 800's. Has anyone dared tried this cable? If so what were your experiences? If not can anyone recommend a 4-5 foot replacement cable that will not change sound for as cheap as possible?


----------



## thecrow

inseconds99 said:


> I am looking to purchase a 4 to 5 foot cable for the HD800, I am not looking to spend tons of money on a replacment cable and am not looking for any change in sound. Equal to stock is just fine as this is just for gaming purposes to my X7, I was looking at this cable ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Replacement-cable-with-remote-mic-for-iphone-to-Sennheiser-HD800-headphone-/311343401394?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item487d8349b2 ) as it will do 2 things for me. 1 it will be a short black cable and 2 it will have a built in mic that I could use when I am gaming with my 800's. Has anyone dared tried this cable? If so what were your experiences? If not can anyone recommend a 4-5 foot replacement cable that will not change sound for as cheap as possible?




A $36 cable for the hd800s with a mic?

Wow!! With the soundstage/openess of the hd800 i can't start to imagine how exceptional a conference call would sound.

"Put me on speaker!!!"


----------



## Dragonsan

Just tried listening to house/techno/dubstep with the HD800s.
  
 I gotta say, they perform remarkably well lol. I didn't think they'd pair so well with these genres. o.o


----------



## inseconds99

thecrow said:


> A $36 cable for the hd800s with a mic?
> 
> Wow!! With the soundstage/openess of the hd800 i can't start to imagine how exceptional a conference call would sound.
> 
> "Put me on speaker!!!"




It's for gaming not portable use. And second, I am not a huge believer in cables changing sound in a huge way. I'm sure it can slightly alter it but I am a believer that most of the "change" in sound is a placebo.


----------



## MickeyVee

Not house/techno/dubstep but a hella of a lotta fun on the HD800 despite the cr@ppy recording..
 Love the vintage B&O turntable at the beginning 
  

  
 Quote:


dragonsan said:


> Just tried listening to house/techno/dubstep with the HD800s.


----------



## thecrow

inseconds99 said:


> It's for gaming not portable use. And second, I am not a huge believer in cables changing sound in a huge way. I'm sure it can slightly alter it but I am a believer that most of the "change" in sound is a placebo.




No offence was meant if it was taken that way

I was glad to see a modest price on cables for the hd800 and I appreciate the practicality of the shorter cable. I've stepped on mine enough times already when getting up from my desk. 

And the idea of using the headphones in making a call was something I ever considered. I reckon it would be a great thing to try - reminds me of when I first heard about diet coke and mentos - intrigued by it and curious.


----------



## CarpeDijon

This cable would also be nice when using the HD800 with the upcoming CEntrance Skyn.


thecrow said:


> No offence was meant if it was taken that way
> 
> I was glad to see a modest price on cables for the hd800 and I appreciate the practicality of the shorter cable. I've stepped on mine enough times already when getting up from my desk.
> 
> And the idea of using the headphones in making a call was something I ever considered. I reckon it would be a great thing to try - reminds me of when I first heard about diet coke and mentos - intrigued by it and curious.


----------



## kapanak

carpedijon said:


> This cable would also be nice when using the HD800 with the upcoming CEntrance Skyn.




You sure that's a DAC/Amp and not a Condom name? XD


----------



## knowhatimean

kapanak said:


> carpedijon said:
> 
> 
> > This cable would also be nice when using the HD800 with the upcoming CEntrance Skyn.
> ...


 
 Good one


----------



## knowhatimean

mickeyvee said:


> Not house/techno/dubstep but a hella of a lotta fun on the HD800 despite the cr@ppy recording..
> Love the vintage B&O turntable at the beginning
> 
> 
> ...




 Hey, now we know what the Violinist , Joshua Bell is doing when he's not playing a concert date !


----------



## inseconds99

thecrow said:


> No offence was meant if it was taken that way
> 
> I was glad to see a modest price on cables for the hd800 and I appreciate the practicality of the shorter cable. I've stepped on mine enough times already when getting up from my desk.
> 
> And the idea of using the headphones in making a call was something I ever considered. I reckon it would be a great thing to try - reminds me of when I first heard about diet coke and mentos - intrigued by it and curious.


 
 No problem, I might take the chance and order that cheap cable for gaming use. It is exactly what I am looking for.


----------



## bargyu

*If somebody is interested in the Nordost Heimdall2 cable for HD800:*
  
 http://www.ebay.de/itm/Nordost-Heimdall2-kabel-fuer-Sennheiser-HD800-/181746377246?
  
 Kind regards,
 Bargyu


----------



## inseconds99

Anyone selling shortened stock cables?


----------



## inseconds99

I am having an issue with my headband adjustments, one side goes down further then the other. One side goes down 9 times the other goes down 10. How many clicks does your HD800 have. I only see 9 lines on each side, is this correct?


----------



## kazcou

inseconds99 said:


> I am having an issue with my headband adjustments, one side goes down further then the other. One side goes down 9 times the other goes down 10. How many clicks does your HD800 have. I only see 9 lines on each side, is this correct?


 
 On my HD800, there is 10 lines and you can move 10 times each side


----------



## inseconds99

kazcou said:


> On my HD800, there is 10 lines and you can move 10 times each side


 
 are you 100% sure there are 10 lines on each side?


----------



## inseconds99

inseconds99 said:


> are you 100% sure there are 10 lines on each side?


 
  


kazcou said:


> On my HD800, there is 10 lines and you can move 10 times each side


 
 Is the 10th one harder to get to as on mine one side gets to hit with some force and the other wont at all.


----------



## inseconds99

Just opened them an closed them quite a few times in a row to maximum length and they seem to be working better now. Seems like there as an extra piece of plastic or something stopping it. Or maybe the grove was made too small and it needed to be worked in. Not that I need the band to go more then 6 notches on each side but it was just something I noticed with playing with them just now.


----------



## kazcou

I recount it and I am sure there is 10 lines.
  
 I don't have to force it for moving up or down and my HD800 is very old sn:51XX.


----------



## olor1n

You guys do know the HD800's headband design is somewhat modular? The padded section is a single piece that clicks in place and can be easily removed. This will expose the metal band and the adjustment mechanism on the underside. You can address any clamp issues by removing the padding and then gently bending the metal frame to your preference. You can also tweak the adjustment mechanism if it's too loose or tight. This is a little finicky as you'll need to adjust a small plate that holds the small ball bearing that locks the fit on the corresponding line. Fiddly, but simple.


----------



## rawrster

So I'm considering getting the HD800 again. I wish I never sold it the first time since this headphone was my dream headphone for a while. I have a better dac and amp this time round so hopefully the HD800 sounds good off the combo. I'm assuming street price is roughly in the range of 1k so my HE-560 could pay for most of it. There are some headphones being released soon so there are lots of options out there...


----------



## BobFiggins

Just purchased the HD 800 from Meier Audio. Probably will take 10 days or more to ship. Excited to join you!
  
 Now time to read this thread from the beginning, again.


----------



## thecrow

rawrsterDo it. If the $$$ are right. 

I bought mine after I thought I was going to buy the he560s. I was ready to but the 560s then had a whim to just try the hd800s which were $300 more. 

Heard the hd800s. The buying decision was on hold. Went back to store the next week and let these two headphones partake in a battle royale for my $$$. Hd800s won. 

I went back to the store a month or two later (looking for amps) and the he560s were still the second best headphones. If I had chosen the he560s I would still be thinking, "what would this album sound like with the hd800s?" I don't have the opposite question now that I have my hd800s. 

And if you still have your Taurus you're already set for a true extremely rounded sound that comes across as "a one". But I guess the amp does that with most headphones. 

Good luck in your decision.


----------



## SONYES




----------



## Sorrodje

@kazcou: so what's your impressions thus far ?


----------



## jaylevine

Just purchased HD800 to replace my HIFIman HE-500s. Couldn't be happier. More comfortable, better high end detail, fantastic soundstage. More sensitive to source material which may require me to cull some of my macserver crap...


----------



## Rumiho

Can anyone compare how well the Valhalla 2 and the Lyr 2 pair with the HD800's and if the Lyr 2 is worth the extra money? I will be using a Bifrost Uber as the dac so I would assume either one should pair well with that.


----------



## lovethatsound

Just been looking at some pictures of this year's hi-fi shows and what I've noticed the most is that all the different manufacturers seem 2 have a pair of HD 800s on their stands with their equipment,just thought I'd share this with you guy's.just goes 2 show how highly valued the HD800s really are.


----------



## rawrster

The hd800 is a classic headphone to me. It's a headphone every enthusiast should demo or own at least once in their lifetime. It was a game changer when it was released imo.


----------



## lukeap69

And I have been building my rig with HD800 in mind...


----------



## Dobrescu George

rawrster said:


> The hd800 is a classic headphone to me. It's a headphone every enthusiast should demo or own at least once in their lifetime. It was a game changer when it was released imo.


 
 I consider it to still be a game changer, it is amazing. 
  
 It is one of the two flagships that i was really impressed with, the other one being ultrasone signature dj. 
  
 I think that the levels of clarity and soundstage hd800 is able to offer are something out of this world. I still have many headphones to test, but this one is really something else


----------



## pearljam50000

The problem is that, after you try the HD800 it makes all other headphones sound muffeled and "low end", my K550 sound like 10$ headphones now ):


----------



## whirlwind

pearljam50000 said:


> The problem is that, after you try the HD800 it makes all other headphones sound muffeled and "low end", my K550 sound like 10$ headphones now ):


 
  
 Yeah, they can spoil you, for sure.


----------



## koiloco

pearljam50000 said:


> The problem is that, after you try the HD800 it makes all other headphones sound muffeled and "low end", my K550 sound like 10$ headphones now ):


 
 Don't exaggerate!  Your K550 is at least $20.


----------



## pearljam50000

(;
It's just hard for me to listen to music on anything else now, because it sounds so wrong!
It's hard to explain.


----------



## Zoom25

Found my old headband Beyer cushion that I used for HE-500, LCD-2, and LCD-3. Trying it out to see how it plays with the clamping force, comfort and overall fit - also any differences in sound as a result of that.
  
 EDIT:
  
 Results: Much prefer the stock form. The fabric is much more comfortable than the pleather on the headband. You can feel that it breathes much better on your hand, even though the add-on headband adds a cm of plush. A few differences in sound. Bass is more tighter and sound more energetic in stock. I didn't like it as much with the aded headband. Probably a result due to the reduced clamp.
  
 In conclusion, stock setup still killing it. Stock cable and no mods. Just exuding end-game.


----------



## SONYES

sorrodje said:


> @kazcou: so what's your impressions thus far ?


 
 for 1987 16/44.1 4  times over smpling  it is suprim hi end for the time .
 and today.  the music us full not futgting   you.
 only sa11  is beter in top *resolution.​*  by not far  a way is CDA-94  
 or oppo 105d is also very very  fin sound .excellent 
 but music is beter in  marantz  cda-94  and  sa11- is suprim
  
 sony cdp-xa50es is best sounding cd player that i herd .it  is  well more open in *resolution then scd-1 i sold .​*


----------



## ubs28

pearljam50000 said:


> The problem is that, after you try the HD800 it makes all other headphones sound muffeled and "low end", my K550 sound like 10$ headphones now ):


 

 My IEM's does the same to all other headphones. It seems that Balanced Armature drivers have more speed and clarity than full sized headphones dynamic driver in general. The only full sized headphone that impressed me was the HD800, hence I bought the HD800 rather than headphones like the HD600.


----------



## Taowolf51

ubs28 said:


> My IEM's does the same to all other headphones. It seems that Balanced Armature drivers have more speed and clarity than full sized headphones dynamic driver in general. The only full sized headphone that impressed me was the HD800, hence I bought the HD800 rather than headphones like the HD600.


 
  
 It's very strange, my experience was the opposite. IEMs with BA drivers sounded muddy and sloppy to me with very little dynamics. I wonder why that is, since I do know the general consensus is that BA drivers have excellent speed.


----------



## ubs28

taowolf51 said:


> It's very strange, my experience was the opposite. IEMs with BA drivers sounded muddy and sloppy to me with very little dynamics. I wonder why that is, since I do know the general consensus is that BA drivers have excellent speed.


 

 That is indeed strange. Maybe there is some varation between Balanced Armature drivers?


----------



## Taowolf51

ubs28 said:


> That is indeed strange. Maybe there is some varation between Balanced Armature drivers?


 
  
 I think I've just had bad luck in general, or IEMs don't mix well with my inner ear shape or something. No $100+ IEM has ever impressed me, and usually end up sounding like a full size that costs 1/2-1/4 the price. It's really aggravating because I'd love to have an awesome high quality CIEM (the K10's and Savants have been on my mind a lot for the past week or so), but it's difficult to make the gamble considering how consistently IEMs have disappointed me.  
 The only IEMs I've ever been happy with are those sub-$100 bang for the buck IEMs like the Carbo Tenore and the Piston, mostly because they don't do anything glaringly wrong (rare in that price class) and cost under $50.
 It's gotta be something wrong with me, I just don't know what it is yet.
  
 I'd love to go to a Head-Fi meet that had a good amount of quality IEMs to help me sort through the problems I've been running into with them.
  
 Anyway, this is pretty off-topic, so that's all I'll say about that for now.
  


zoom25 said:


> Found my old headband Beyer cushion that I used for HE-500, LCD-2, and LCD-3. Trying it out to see how it plays with the clamping force, comfort and overall fit - also any differences in sound as a result of that.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's the beauty of the HD800. If you design a headphone well, you don't need tons of padding! Light materials, and most importantly, a headband that hugs the head and maximizes contact works wonders! The entire bottom of the HD800 headband pad makes contact with my head. I can't say that for any other headphone I've ever owned, and it makes a huge difference!


----------



## RUMAY408

bobfiggins said:


> Just purchased the HD 800 from Meier Audio. Probably will take 10 days or more to ship. Excited to join you!
> 
> Now time to read this thread from the beginning, again.


 

 Welcome to the HD800 gang


----------



## TMRaven

Been listening to music out of the Asgard2 and Valhalla2 the past couple days.  Prefer Asgard2 so far.


----------



## pearljam50000

Can you elaborate on that?
Why do you like the Asgard 2 more?
Thanks.


----------



## rawrster

thecrow said:


> @rawrsterDo it. If the $$$ are right.
> 
> I bought mine after I thought I was going to buy the he560s. I was ready to but the 560s then had a whim to just try the hd800s which were $300 more.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Trust me I really want to. I just bought the Taurus and a balanced cable for the HE-560 so I don't want to sell the HE-560 anytime soon and it's one of the more balanced headphones I've ever owned. I'm not in any rush and Memorial day is coming up soon so there may be some sales.
  
 I remember it took a while to find the right setup for the HD800 to sound good. I'm hoping my current setup works since there was a metallic treble before I found the right pairing for the HD800 last time. It's too bad I can't just take a HD800 home for a few weeks before committing.


----------



## thecrow

rawrster said:


> Trust me I really want to. I just bought the Taurus and a balanced cable for the HE-560 so I don't want to sell the HE-560 anytime soon and it's one of the more balanced headphones I've ever owned. I'm not in any rush and Memorial day is coming up soon so there may be some sales.
> 
> I remember it took a while to find the right setup for the HD800 to sound good. I'm hoping my current setup works since there was a metallic treble before I found the right pairing for the HD800 last time. It's too bad I can't just take a HD800 home for a few weeks before committing.




On the taurus I did not notice metallic highs on the hd800s. 

I also noticed no particular necessity for balanced cables with the hd800s. There is some improvement however, FOR ME, it's not like the sennheiser amps which I eould not buy without balanced cables. 

The Taurus is on my wish list for when it's time for that kind of spend on an amp


----------



## Taowolf51

tmraven said:


> Been listening to music out of the Asgard2 and Valhalla2 the past couple days.  Prefer Asgard2 so far.


 
  
 Now that is interesting. I'd be interested in hearing more detailed impressions when you're ready to give them.


----------



## Dadracer

thecrow said:


> rawrster said:
> 
> 
> > Trust me I really want to. I just bought the Taurus and a balanced cable for the HE-560 so I don't want to sell the HE-560 anytime soon and it's one of the more balanced headphones I've ever owned. I'm not in any rush and Memorial day is coming up soon so there may be some sales.
> ...


 
 I use the HD800s with the Taurus in my main system. I swapped over to balanced cables (CH800) after a few months and found a small but worthwhile improvement. It was like going from the standard vinyl pressing to a MoFi pressing. There just seemed more of everything and all that you liked about the HD800 was improved especially in focus and soundstage. It is still quite a cost though!


----------



## TMRaven

pearljam50000 said:


> Can you elaborate on that?
> Why do you like the Asgard 2 more?
> Thanks.


 

 I can tell all the specifics in a couple weeks when I feel comfortable I've uncovered all their qualities, but so far the gist of it is that:
  
 Asgard2 is thicker and a little warmer sounding with slightly beefier bass, and also cleaner sounding.  It loses out a bit on instrument separation to the slightly brighter Valhalla2 (stock tubes).  In comparison the Valhalla2 is a bit forced sounding.


----------



## rawrster

dadracer said:


> I use the HD800s with the Taurus in my main system. I swapped over to balanced cables (CH800) after a few months and found a small but worthwhile improvement. It was like going from the standard vinyl pressing to a MoFi pressing. There just seemed more of everything and all that you liked about the HD800 was improved especially in focus and soundstage. It is still quite a cost though!


 
 It definitely is expensive. My amp costs more than my headphone and dac combined. Everything is this subforum is expensive so that is to be expected. I just sold my Lyr 2 amp so I don't have to pay too much for the HD800. Hopefully there's a good deal for them in the next few weeks. I've always wanted one from colorware but paying retail for something that will have terrible resale value (from retail price) isn't very appealing if I ever decide to go another direction. I may still go that way since this will be my second time purchasing them so I should have a better idea of what I'm doing this time around.
  
 I've had many reports that the HD800 and Taurus makes a good pairing. Another head-fi member that I trust has also stated the same to me but I'm not sure what his dac is. I want to upgrade my dac eventually so that probably is moot at this point. I'm on the fence since the value of the dac is good considering the price paid but I'll see eventually.


----------



## q2klepto

Would a modi pair well with the Valhalla 2 and the hd800? Trying to figure out the best way to replace my nfb15 with something that will pair better. 

Or should I just get the v2 and have the nfb15 as a wolfson dac, possibly an amp for planars if I wanted a complimentary pair


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks a lot! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 It does seem weird because i expected the opposite:
 I thought that because the Valhalla 2 is a tube amp it would be warmer sounding, and  because the Asgard 2 is SS it would sound brighter. guess i was wrong lol
 Quote:


tmraven said:


> I can tell all the specifics in a couple weeks when I feel comfortable I've uncovered all their qualities, but so far the gist of it is that:
> 
> Asgard2 is thicker and a little warmer sounding with slightly beefier bass, and also cleaner sounding.  It loses out a bit on instrument separation to the slightly brighter Valhalla2 (stock tubes).  In comparison the Valhalla2 is a bit forced sounding.


----------



## Twangsta

Anybody here using A+ with Izotope up sampling for your HD800s? If so could you share your up sampling settings.


----------



## Dobrescu George

twangsta said:


> Anybody here using A+ with Izotope up sampling for your HD800s? If so could you share your up sampling settings.


 
 I am developing a software for upsampling at the moment. HD800 is one of the headphones that works the best. I also would recommend HQplayer
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just saying, you can check the updates at my project's page, www.dobresculaboratories.blogspot.com
  
 I also am working at an algorithm for better transients recovery, it is something neat, which should work even better than what has already been done.
  
 Sorry if i am disturbing the thread


----------



## yates7592

Anybody using the Draug 2 cable and can say what difference it makes to the HD800?


----------



## Twangsta

dobrescu george said:


> I am developing a software for upsampling at the moment. HD800 is one of the headphones that works the best. I also would recommend HQplayer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hadn't tried HQplayer till you mentioned it, sounds good, sounds big! It's another world of setting I haven't a clue about yet I'm afraid. IR convolution, like in cabinet simulations? This is going nuts, never thought I'd see pro audio tools creep into audiophile setups! I'll be following your blog, very intrigued, keep going DG!


----------



## citraian

yates7592 said:


> Anybody using the Draug 2 cable and can say what difference it makes to the HD800?


 
 Hope this doesn't start a new cable flame war. Well, the first thing that pops out is the bass - better quality and more quantity than the stock. Then you notice that the headphones sound more natural, more detailed and more airy. I found out that most cables tend to "choke" the HD800 a bit - with this one everything is decompressed. By far the largest cable difference that I've heard so far.


----------



## Dobrescu George

twangsta said:


> Hadn't tried HQplayer till you mentioned it, sounds good, sounds big! It's another world of setting I haven't a clue about yet I'm afraid. IR convolution, like in cabinet simulations? This is going nuts, never thought I'd see pro audio tools creep into audiophile setups! I'll be following your blog, very intrigued, keep going DG!


 
 Thanks a lot! I am happy that you like the ideea!
  
 What i am building at the moment began from the concept that i can create a free version of a software that uses an even more powerful engine for sample interpolation, and offer an even better user interface than it has already been created. Impulse response filters just came along the way naturally, with even more features around the corner
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I am working at the programming part of the software. Nowdays (i will spoil you a little) i am trying to bring high resolution streaming at a new level, using less bandwidth. If all goes well, and i receive enough support, the software will have even more interesting features, this is only the beggining of what free software can do for it's users.
  
 I consider Hd800 to be one of the best headphones in existence, ever, this is why i take it as a guide for the ideal sound. Sadly, i am yet to have enough money to buy it, but i tested it on many occasions, and this is why i am following this thread, i have a high interest in HD800.


----------



## Dadracer

citraian said:


> yates7592 said:
> 
> 
> > Anybody using the Draug 2 cable and can say what difference it makes to the HD800?
> ...


 
 Are you using it balanced?


----------



## citraian

dadracer said:


> Are you using it balanced?



I've used it in both balanced and SE configurations.


----------



## Twangsta

dobrescu george said:


> Thanks a lot! I am happy that you like the ideea!
> 
> What i am building at the moment began from the concept that i can create a free version of a software that uses an even more powerful engine for sample interpolation, and offer an even better user interface than it has already been created. Impulse response filters just came along the way naturally, with even more features around the corner
> 
> ...


 

 I wish you luck! If you need any help maybe I can beta test for you or more, I'm a systems programmer, doing a startup at the moment, what front end library will you be using for the desktop client? Native or by the looks of HQPlayer QT, etc,  the current crop of software while functional is very dated with their UI/UXs, specially since I'm living in the mobile space these days, i'll be very interested to know how your project develops.


----------



## whirlwind

citraian said:


> yates7592 said:
> 
> 
> > Anybody using the Draug 2 cable and can say what difference it makes to the HD800?
> ...


 
 +1
  
 Love the Draug 2 with the HD800


----------



## RUMAY408

whirlwind said:


> +1
> 
> Love the Draug 2 with the HD800


 

 +2


----------



## inseconds99

Got my Woo Audio stand, love the build quality but it's probably going to be returned as it does not quite fit the HD 800's headband correctly. 1 night on the stand and it had 2 indents in the headband because it doesn't conform to the headband correctly.

Might order http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROOMs-Kopfhorer-Stander-FS-Schwarz-Black-Holz-headphones-stand-NEUWARE-/261770699929?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item3cf2bfe499

Anyone have any experience with this stand?


----------



## Dadracer

inseconds99 said:


> Got my Woo Audio stand, love the build quality but it's probably going to be returned as it does not quite fit the HD 800's headband correctly. 1 night on the stand and it had 2 indents in the headband because it doesn't conform to the headband correctly.
> 
> Might order http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROOMs-Kopfhorer-Stander-FS-Schwarz-Black-Holz-headphones-stand-NEUWARE-/261770699929?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item3cf2bfe499
> 
> Anyone have any experience with this stand?


 
 No sorry not with that one, but I did get this one which was only £20 GBP and works well
  
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Arrival-Headphone-Bracket-headset-headphone/dp/B00SY3YXYO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1432187511&sr=8-1&keywords=wooden+headphone+stand


----------



## pearljam50000

Hi i wonder how much of the HD800's performance in %,am i hearing with the Geek Out 720 as DAC\amp?


----------



## Sorrodje

Trying to evaluate sonic performance in terms of % is pure BS.  .. You asked an opinion, you have mine.


----------



## jsgraha

pearljam50000 said:


> Hi i wonder how much of the HD800's performance in %,am i hearing with the Geek Out 720 as DAC\amp?




I think it will make you happy until you hear something better


----------



## Dobrescu George

pearljam50000 said:


> Hi i wonder how much of the HD800's performance in %,am i hearing with the Geek Out 720 as DAC\amp?


 
 There is not such thing as 100% of a performance of a headphone.
  
 You are already hearing 100% of it's performance. 
  
 You are not already hearing what you want to hear 100% or what you might like the best, but HD800 performs already at 100%.
  
 The greatest part of your rig right now is hd800, if you will buy another amp or DAC, it might improove the SQ, but you are already hearing one of the best SQ possible, i am not sure if you can go any more better, there is always a sidegrade possible, but not always an upgrade. 
  
 For me, for example, HD800 performed at it's best with matrix m stage hpa2, which is pretty cheap compared to other options, with that AMP, it was 100% for me. 
  
 You can go to any showroom and see if there is anything you might like better, but remember that you already have one of the best possible headphones, and the DAC/AMP you have is probably very good [i had not heared it, but read that it is quite good]


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks everyone! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The thing is i haven't heard them with better rigs (except one time years ago and i don't remember how they sounded)
 So on the one hand , i want to know how much better can it get, but on the other hand because they sound amazing as it is,if the improvement is not huge then  i'm not sure i have the energy and $$$ to spend on if the only gets better by let's say 5% than what i have now.
 Yes i know it's almost impossible to measure performance in %, but if someone tried the HD800 with the Geek Out, and also with a proper desktop DAC\amp, then he could say something like:
 " the desktop rig sounded about 20% better"
 So, i'm not look for an exact number , just to know where i stand


----------



## Sorrodje

pearljam50000 said:


> So, i'm not look for an exact number , just to know where i stand


 
  
  
 No one can know this for you.. No one.   Just enjoy the music, go to meets and test different rigs and let your ears decide.


----------



## shabta

pearljam50000 said:


> Thanks everyone!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 If you are enjoying it so much that they sound amazing to you, then take a break. The biggest effect on sound quality is the headphone (assuming your amp provides enough voltage swing and power). On head-fi, when we talk about dacs, because we have to use words to underline differences, the differences are often sound greater than they are. But sometimes, once you have heard a difference, you can't go back and then the previous sound is almost unbearable .
  
 Just relax and enjoy your "amazing sound"...


----------



## wink

> Originally Posted by *pearljam50000*
> 
> 
> 
> So, i'm not look for an exact number , just to know where i stand


 
 Stop obsessing, and enjoy what you've got.


----------



## olor1n

pearljam50000 said:


> Hi i wonder how much of the HD800's performance in %,am i hearing with the Geek Out 720 as DAC\amp?




You're only hearing 7.9543701% of what the HD800 is capable of. This is Summit-Fi, you'll get no validation here. :veryevil:



wink said:


> pearljam50000 said:
> 
> 
> > So, i'm not look for an exact number , just to know where i stand :happy_face1:
> ...




^ Don't listen to this guy.


----------



## pearljam50000

lol
I'm not even sure I'm allowed to stay on Summit-Fi with my crappy Geek Out.


----------



## Sorrodje

HD800 is a mid-fi headphone nowadays.. not expensive enough to deserve its place here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 No need to complex about your GO.


----------



## citraian

pearljam50000 said:


> lol
> I'm not even sure I'm allowed to stay on Summit-Fi with my crappy Geek Out.


 
 You're not. Go big or get out!


----------



## pearljam50000

lol


----------



## pearljam50000

OMG
 HD800 Amazon price is now: 

Price:$1,599.95


----------



## Khragon

haha it sounded better to me already.


----------



## rawrster

That's just the retail price of the hd800


----------



## ruthieandjohn

*Detailed Listening Comparison with HD800:  HDVD 800, Sony PHA-1, CEntrance HiFi M8*
  
 About five weeks ago, in my search for a DAC/amp that would support the portable use of my HD 800s, I produced the following table of comparison:
  

*Manufacturer*​*Model*​*iPod?*​*Battery?*​*Output imp (ohms)*​*Output power, sum 2 channels (at ohms)*​*Power into 300 ohms, 2 ch (est if in parens)*​*Trusted reports for*​*Size (mm)*​*Weight (gr)*​*Price*​*CEntrance*​*HiFi M8*​Y​Y​1, 2 11​1,400 mW (8 ohm)​166​HD 800​127x82x33​ ​$699​CEntrance​DACPort​CCK​N​ ​1,500 max​(166)​ ​114x25x25​ ​$250​Aurender​Flow​Y​Y​0.06​380 (32)​174​HD 800​137x80x28​450​$1,295​Chord​Hugo​Y​Y​0.075​700 (8)​140​HD 800​132x100x20​400​$2,500​iFi Audio​Micro iDSD​CCK​Y​<1​4,000​(250)​HD 800, HE-6​177x67x28​310​$500​*Sony*​*PHA-1*​Y​Y​10​350 (8)​52​ ​130x67x28​220​$250​Sony​PHA-1A​Y​Y​ ​296 (8)​33​ ​109x62x19​145​$300​Sony​PHA-2​Y​Y​ ​330 (8);180 (32)​50​ ​140x68x29​270​$409​Sony​PHA-3​Y​Y​ ​640 (32 ohm balanced)​(150)​NOT for HD800​141x80x29​300​$999​JDS Labs​CSD​CCK​Y​0.62​4.146 V (600)​(50)​ ​100x62x14​116​$249​Fostex​HP-P1​Y​Y​ ​160​(160)​ ​130x75x25​260​$450​iQube​V5​CCK​Y​<0.1​160 (16); 80 (32); 12 (200)​(8)​NOT for HD800​126x70x23​190​$699​LH Labs​GeekOut1000​CCK​N​.47, 4.7​1000 (16)​(140)​HD 800 (PTAF)​78x35x13​36​$299​FurutechADL​X1​Y​Y​ ​60 (16)​36​ ​118x68x17​147​$479​HeadAmp​Pico USB​CCK​Y​<1​700 (32)​(340)​"the difficult"​70x51x20​ ​$468​Leckerton​UHA-6S.MKII​CCK​Y​<0.5​55(32)[8610 op amp];140(32)[8620]​40 (either op amp)​ ​106x70x20​170​$279​Headstage​Arrow​CCK​Y​ ​"Max 10 V P-to-P"​ ​ ​98x56x8.5​100​$399​Oppo​HA-2​Y​Y​0.5​300 (16); 220 (32), 30 (300)​30​HD 800​157x68x12​175​$299​Cypher Labs​Theorem 720​Y​Y​< 1​205 (32); 320 (50)​68​ ​120x64x29​300​$699​
  
 Since then, I have performed a detailed comparison of the portable CEntrance HiFi M8 and the Sony PHA-1, bolded above, to the Sennheiser HDVD 800 desktop DAC/amp.
  
 I used 10 acoustic events in four songs, played from lossless files via digital output into the DAC section of each amp.  I used the HD 800 headphone to listen in each case.
  
 Further details about the songs and the acoustic events are given in this post.  A summary description of each acoustic test is given in the right-most column of each row in the table of results, below.
  
 The goal was to compare two portable DAC/amps' quality to that of the HDVD 800 in driving the HD 800, using the HDVD 800 (designed by Sennheiser for the HD 800) as a reference.
  
 For each of the 10 tests, the three amps (one per column) were ranked first (blue), second (red), or third (yellow, like prize ribbon colors at the fair.  Ties for first place were colored purple (i.e., blue + red) and ties for second place were colored orange (red + yellow).  Points were given for each place... 3 for first through 1 for third, also shown in the table.  Differences of less than three points are probably not too significant.
  
 Of course, these acoustic features merely reflect what I listen for in good headphones.  Though transparency, sound stage, and bass impact rank high, there are no features for quality of vocals, for example, which some may value highly.
  
 Here are my results.  You can click on the table to enlarge it.
  

  
 My qualitative impression, mentioned earlier on this thread, was that the Sony PHA-1 was spectrally indistinguishable (for me(!)) from the Sennheiser HDVD 800 -- its main difference was its smaller sound stage as compared to the HDVD 800.
  
 That comment also applies to the CEntrance HiFi M8.  It is interesting to observe that the HiFi M8 for me outperforms the HDVD 800 in the areas of "bass finger pluck" and "'Ripping of organ/brass."  Folks have observed elsewhere that the HDVD 800 tends to tame a 6 KHz - 8 KHz hump in the spectral response of the HD 800.  Perhaps the HiFi M8 does not, and as a result, these two features, which emphasize transients and high frequency response, come through more strongly.
  
 In short, I am entirely satisfied in using either the PHA-1 or the CEntrance HiFi M8 for portable listening to the HD800.  Portable use is on the move, which is not particularly conducive to the ultra-critical listening with full attention focused on the music that seated listening, with a desktop amp such as the HDVD 800, often involves.


----------



## q2klepto

pearljam50000 said:


> lol
> I'm not even sure I'm allowed to stay on Summit-Fi with my crappy Geek Out.


 
 Ha im kinda in the same boat - my NFB15 drives the HD800 just fine, volume pot never goes above 11oclock (high gain) so i think it has no problem giving the power the hd800 needs. But knowing that the hd800 is "finicky" with amps, im debating whether or not i should get a Valhalla 2 or even a Cavalli Liquid Carbon - im gonna need to go to a meet and do some double blind testing or something hah


----------



## pearljam50000

Yes, but it was always shown next to a discounted price, now it's 1600$ with no discounted price plus the price went up in my country by a 100$ or so also, after years of being sold at the same price, so I think the HD800 are officially now 1600$.


rawrster said:


> That's just the retail price of the hd800


----------



## pearljam50000




----------



## judge888

The price increase on the HD800s is strange considering the age and also the respective price drop on the HD700s  In the uk the HD700s can be had for £360 vs the HD800 at £1100.  Used to be a far closer margin.


----------



## JamieMcC

judge888 said:


> The price increase on the HD800s is strange considering the age and also the respective price drop on the HD700s  In the uk the HD700s can be had for £360 vs the HD800 at £1100.  Used to be a far closer margin.


 
  
 There are deals to be had online and if your patient a few hours spent online hunting can save a you shed load of cash. I picked a brand new sealed in box HD800 about a month ago for £630 fully warrantied the two links below are the same retailer they often run some nice deals on their ebay shop I had seen them sale several small batches of HD800 in the past prior to taking the plunge myself the phones arrived a couple of days later by courier complete with their shop receipt for warrantee.
  
http://www.avclass.nl/
  
http://www.avclass.nl/hifi/hifi-headphone/sennheiser-hd800.html
  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SENNHEISER-HD800-headphone-Nieuw-NEW-2-year-warranty-/301638325017?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_146&hash=item463b0b9319


----------



## Moonhead

Avclass are a it cheaper on the eBay link, thanks for the info mate. 

I where considering this, as it where the best price in EU until now. 

http://www.amazon.it/gp/offer-listing/B001OTZ8DA/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1432289678&sr=8-1&keywords=Hd800&condition=new


----------



## judge888

Agreed much appreciated on the avclass link, worth some investigation.  My only issue with the ebay purchase is that, according to my understanding anyway, the Sennheiser warranty is global but won't apply to anything purchased from Ebay?


----------



## Sorrodje

Jan Meier from http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/  still sells the HD800 and prices are usually  way more affordable that what you can find in Amerca.  Just contact him


----------



## pearljam50000

I guess it's the new official price, because they cost the same everywhere, can anyone guess why the price went up?
I'm lucky I got them at the old price lol.


----------



## rawrster

The HD800 has always been at that price iirc. Amazon prices fluctuate a lot and don't always give a discount so sometimes it is a good deal and sometimes it is not. Retailers like B&H probably are not allowed to sell below MSRP (or at least has to be advertised at msrp) so they have to sell it at that price.


----------



## JamieMcC

I contacted the manager at AVClass prior to my purchase and was informed the warranty is valid European wide for 2 years and they included a store receipt same as if you walked in and brought from the store.
  
 I always find it best to confirm such details on expensive items
  
 Its also worth checking if they will match the ebay price direct and pay via credit card or then you don't get ripped off by the Pay pal exchange rate conversion and have added protection purchasing with a card brings. You can save some serious cash for the sake of a few emails or a phone call.


----------



## kazcou

I think one of the best price you can have without discount in USA is 1400$ :
 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1D91JM1547


----------



## thecrow

here in australia the asking price is $1400 AUD which currently is just under $1100. so take a little bit off that when they drop the advertised price and add your freight
  
 are there any other charges for importing into the usa?
 i wonder why that's hardly mentioned here when prices are looked at


----------



## rawrster

For me, it depends on if warranty is covered in the USA if I purchase from another country. Also the street price of the HD800 is 1k and considering there haven't been many issues about the HD800 build quality I have no issues purchasing used compared to new.
  
 I remember Jan Meier had good prices but can't remember what they are. I'll send an email to see how much it is but that's probably the cheapest since they are located in germany.


----------



## judge888

Warranty is my major concern, not that i expect anything to go wrong.  But if it does and the warranty is void for whatever reason then the Senn repair fee will wipe out most of the saving!  Probably still worth it tbh.


----------



## BobFiggins

rawrster said:


> I remember Jan Meier had good prices but can't remember what they are. I'll send an email to see how much it is but that's probably the cheapest since they are located in germany.


 
  
 Just got mine for $1160 from Jan. Arrives today actually, woo!
  
 EDIT: Nevermind, it's USPS. For some reason delivering to my area on Fridays is like asking for the planets to align. Sigh.


----------



## rawrster

i just got an email from them stating the same price. It's a pretty good price for new.
  
 It looks like warranty would be up to the local distributor if they wanted to honor it or not so would have to ship it back to Germany for warranty purposes. I would probably not worry about the HD800 warranty since I don't think too many have issues about it and out of all the headphones at this price range that are discussed here these probably have the least issues. It's nice that a price is out there that isn't too far off from the street price of them used.


----------



## ubs28

vishnu16 said:


> At the moment i'm just using the chord hugo, but i just bought the violectric v220 yesterday so lets see how it goes. This hobby is getting expensive.


 

 How much improvement did you get with the voilectric v220 over the Chord Hugo? Are there also things that are worse with using the voilectric v220? And was the big / small improvements worth the money?


----------



## pearljam50000

The DarkVoice 336SE is on sale for 220$
Is it any good with the HD800?


----------



## BobFiggins

Serial 38,260 checking in! If you are lurking here Jan, thanks so much for the excellent deal!
  
 Oh it sounds so good. Screw the fancy lingo, this sounds awesome! 
  
 Stayed up for 20 hours to make sure this came home with me today (USPS nightmares, they lost the package and I had to wait for them to locate it, then I had to go elsewhere to get it). After a long sleep, the honeymoon period begins!


----------



## pearljam50000

They sound much better after about 10 hours... so it only gets better


----------



## BobFiggins

Any music recommendations for excellent mastered recordings to suit the HD 800? James Blake, Massive Attack, and Sigur Ros sound great. Don't have too many others that _really_ shine with these. Would like to expand my collection of music!


----------



## pearljam50000

Infected Mushroom, Bjork, Michael Jackson, Fiona Apple, Tori Amos, Radiohead, Joanna Newsom


----------



## Dadracer

Gregory Porter, Rickie Lee Jones, Keb Mo, T.Rex, Booker T and the MGs.............


----------



## thecrow

Through a headfier ive just discovered nils lofgren live acoustic. I have only heard 4 tracks so far in my car from my iPhone and spotify and it sounded great. Yet to try it through the hd800s. That is on the cards for tomorrow. Shows great promise. 

Grace - Jeff Buckley

"Last dance with Mary jane" from tom pettys greatest hits album from around 1994

I hope I never from split enz's true colours album (from new zealand) was on high rotation for a while


----------



## Moonhead

Afrocubismo - Afrocubismo
  
 AIR - Moonsafari 
  
 Ane Brun - Duets
  
 Atoms for Peace - AMOK
  
 Bassekou Kouyate & Ngoni Ba - Segu Blue
  
 The Beatles - Abbey Road
  
 The Be Good Tanyas - Chinatown
  
 Beck - Modern Guilt
  
 Beirut - Gulag Orchestra 
  
 Belle & Sebastian - Tigermilk
  
 Ben Harper - Fight For Your Mind
  
 Bill Callahan - Sometimes I Wish I where an Eagle
  
 Bill Withers - Best of Bill Withers 
  
 Blue Foundation - Sweep of Days
  
 Bob Dylan . Blood on the Tracks, The Freewheelin Bob Dylan, John Wesley Harding, Love & Theft, Modern Times, Tempest, Time Out Of Mind, The Basement Tapes, Planet Waves.
  
 Bob Marley & The Wailers - Legend
  
 Bob Mould - Workbook
  
 Bon Iver - For Emma, forever ago
  
 Bonnie Prince Billy - Master & Everyone
  
 Booker T & The M.G's - Green Onions
  
 Cannonball Adderley - Something Else
  
 Cat Power - Jukebox 
  
 Cat Stevens - Tea for Tillerman
  
 Charles Mingus - AH UM
  
 Coldplay - Parachutes
  
 The Cure - Disintegration
  
 Curtis Mayfield - Superfly
  
 Dave Brubeck - Time Out
  
 David Bowie - Aladdine Sane, Diamond Dogs, Heathen, Hunky Dory,  Earthling, Low, Reality
  
 David Gilmour - On An Island
  
 Deftones - Around The Fure, White Pony
  
 Depeche Mode - Best of 
  
 Dexter Gordon - GO
  
 Driver - OST
  
 Eddie Vedder - Into the Wild
  
 Ella Fitzgerald & Louis Armstrong - Ella & Louis
  
 Elvis Presley - Elvis at Sun 
  
 Fela Kuti - Expensive ****/He Miss Road
  
 Fleet Foxes - Fleet Foxes, Sun Giant EP
  
 Grinderman - Grinderman
  
 Herbie Hancock - Head Hunters, V.S.O.P.
  
 Ibrahim Electric - Ibrahim Electric
  
 Im Not There - OST
  
 Interpol - Turn On The Bright Lights
  
 Isobel Campbell & Mark Lanegan - Ballad Of The Broken Seas
  
 Jeff Buckley - Songs To No One
  
 Jesus & Mary Chain - Darklands
  
 Joni Mitchell - Blue
  
 John Coltrane - A Love Supreme
  
 Johnny Cash - Unchained 
  
 Kaizers Orchestra - Ompa til du Dør
  
 Kings of Convenience - Quiet IS the New Loud
  
 The Knife - Silent Shout
  
 Leonard Cohen - Songs of Leonard Cohen, Songs From A Room, Songs of Love and Hate
  
 LOVE - Forever Changes
  
 Madrugada - Live at Tralfamadore
  
 Marianne Faithfull - Broken English
  
 Massive Attack - Heligoland
  
 Mazzy Star - Among My Swan
  
 Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
  
 Muddy Waters - Folksinger
  
 Mulatu Astatke - New York - Addis - London: The Story of...
  
 Neil Young - Live At Massey Hall 1971
  
 Neutral Milk Hotel - In The Aeroplane Over The Sea
  
 Nick Cave - Abbatoir Blues, Push The Sky Away
  
 Nick Drake - Five Leaves Left, Bryter Latyer, Pink Moon
  
 Nils Frahm - Felt
  
 NIN - With Teeth
  
 O Brother, Where Art Thou - OST
  
 Patti Smith - Twelve
  
 Paul Mccartney - RAM
  
 Paul Simon - Graceland
  
 Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here
  
 PJ Harvey - Let England Shake, White Chalk
  
 Police - Reggatta De Blanc
  
 Porcupine Tree - In Absentia
  
 Prodigy - The Fat of the Land
  
 Pulp Fiction - OST
  
 R.E.M. - Green, New Adventures In Hi-Fi
  
 Radiohead - Kid A, Hail to the Thief, In Rainbows, The King of Limbs
  
 Raveonettes - Pretty In Black
  
 RJD2 - Deadringer
  
 Robert Plat & Alison Krauss - Raising Sand
  
 Rodriguez - Cold Fact, Coming from Reality
  
 Ry Cooder - Mambo Sinuendo
  
 Röyksopp - Senior
  
 Scarlett Johansson - Anywhere I Lay My Head
  
 Searching For THe Wrong-Eyed Jesus - OST
  
 Sigur Ros - ( )
  
 Simon & Garfunkel - Bridge Over Troubled Water 
  
 Slint - Spiderland
  
 Smiths - Smiths, Meat Is Murder, Queen Is Dead, Strangeway Here We Come
  
 Smog - A River Aint too Much to Love
  
 Snatch - OST
  
 Stan Getz - The Bossanova Albums
  
 Sufjan Stevens - Illinois
  
 Suicidal - Friends & Family, Vol. 1
  
 Supertramp - Breakfast In America
  
 Sun Kil Moon - Tiny Cities 
  
 System Of A Down - Toxicity
  
 Talk Talk - Spirit Of Eden
  
 Talkings Heads - Remain In Light
  
 Teitur - Stay Under the Stars
  
 Television . Marquee Moon
  
 The The - Dusk
  
 The Tallest Man on Earth - Wild Hunt
  
 Thurston Morre - Trees Outside The Academy 
  
 Thom Yorke - Eraser 
  
 Tinariwen - Aman Iman
  
 Tindersticks - Across Six Leap Years
  
 Tom Waits - Orphans, Real Gone, Used Songs
  
 Tool - Æniema
  
 Tuung - This is Tuung...
  
 Van Morrison - Astral Weeks, Into The Music, Moondance, Tupelo Honey
  
 Velvet Underound - Velvet Underground 
  
 The Verve - Urban Hymns
  
 Wayne Shorter - Juju
  
 Ween - La Cucaracha
  
 Whitest Boy Alive - Dreams, Rules
  
 Woven Hand - Consider The Birds, Ten Stones
  
 The XX - XX, Coexist 
  
 Young Marble Giants - Colossal Youth
  
 The Zombies - Odyssey And Oracle
  
 16 Horsepower - Folklore


----------



## Taowolf51

Yosi Horikawa, Son Lux, The Flashbulb, Ta-Ku, Punch Brothers.


----------



## BobFiggins

taowolf51 said:


> Yosi Horikawa, Son Lux, The Flashbulb, Ta-Ku, Punch Brothers.


 
  
 Actually have a few Yosi Horikawa songs! Stars is great!
  
 Thanks for all the suggestions, I will listen to every single one of these tonight!


----------



## RUMAY408

Check out this Magiccabbage thread for acoustic music where the HD800 shines
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/735144/the-acoustic-music-thread


----------



## thecrow

Thanks for that thread tip off

I hope it grows. Can't wait to get into it


----------



## BobFiggins

Any electronic (non-lyrical) suggestions? After listening to most of the suggestions this far most of it is music with lyrics. Great to add to my collection, but not necessarily my preference.
  
 EDIT: Really liked some of the artists suggested:
 Gregory Porter
 Keb Mo
 Teitur
 The Flashbulb
 Ta-Ku
  
 Would have liked Eddie Vedder, but the sibilance in that album was rather strong. My ears couldn't handle it.


----------



## Taowolf51

If you haven't listened to The Flashbulb's album "Hardscrabble", I'd recommend it. Each of his albums are very different in style and feel, Hardscrabble is breakcore, and the HD800's are one of the few headphones that can really handle the speed and texture of that album. "The Bridgeport Run" is my go-to test song for speed and decay rate.
  
 More recommendations:
 Floex - Zorya (cool eastern european electronic that implements some woodwind elements, made by Tomad Dvorak, the composer behind games like Machinarium and Samrost)
 Bonobo - Black Sands and The North Borders (more chill, beat-heavy music)
 SBTRKT - SBTRKT (most of the songs have lyrics, but Go Bang is a good example of a song without lyrics)
 Amon Tobin - ISAM (really textured music with a very eclectic range of sounds, Night Swim is a great song for conveying the sense of unease and fear in the listener)
 Forss - Ecclesia (gregorian chants + electronic, pretty unique sound)
 Savant (a lot of his songs have roots in a chiptune-style, but his music is not chiptune, tons of energy, very punchy and fast)


----------



## olor1n

@Moonhead - You have excellent taste in music sir.


----------



## Moonhead

Cheers olorn1, and ditto 
 - more where it came from  
  
 But I do miss those HD800


----------



## pearljam50000

Why did you sale your pair?


----------



## Moonhead

Upgraptitis..
Stax Route, been there done that!


----------



## pearljam50000

Cool, so...is the Stax SR-009 that much better than the HD800?


----------



## Moonhead

I would say different and better in some ways. 
Cant beat vocal presentation from Stax, but it's not gonna give the same wow effect and versatile of HD800, IMO.


----------



## Sorrodje

moonhead said:


> I would say different and better in some ways.
> Cant beat vocal presentation from Stax, but it's not gonna give the same wow effect and versatile of HD800, IMO.


 
  
 Exactly my thought too. the SR009 is a wonderful headphone but I wouldn't sell my HD800 for a SR009... Tthe idea to add a SR009 rig to my HD800 rig never leaves my brain though.  something like HD800 + HE-6 + SR009 looks like the ultimate headphone stable for me.


----------



## q2klepto

Anyone have any thoughts on how the Vali might sound compared to an NFB15 (solid state, wolfson dac) with the HD800s?  The vali is regarded as a good starting tube amp for the hd800s, considered warm compared to the valhalla 2. 
  
 ill probably feed the vali with my nfb.


----------



## Sorrodje

q2klepto said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on how the Vali might sound compared to an NFB15 (solid state, wolfson dac) with the HD800s?  The vali is regarded as a good starting tube amp for the hd800s, considered warm compared to the valhalla 2.
> 
> ill probably feed the vali with my nfb.


 
  
 I did that some month ago and found the Vali offered a really great improvement with my NFB12  .  the embedded HO did wonders with my HE-4 but no so much with the HD800 in my opinion. it does not sound wrong but not that good. YMMV


----------



## q2klepto

sorrodje said:


> I did that some month ago and found the Vali offered a really great improvement with my NFB12  .  the embedded HO did wonders with my HE-4 but no so much with the HD800 in my opinion. it does not sound wrong but not that good. YMMV


 
  
 Interesting - it looks like the 12 and 15 both use the same wolfson dual WM8741 configuration.  I know the Valhalla2 might be better all around, but its also about 3X the price
  
 Wonder if i should hunt for a cheap used vali


----------



## Sorrodje

@q2klepto : There's no risk. Just remember the Vali can riiiiiing a bit but the engaging and punchy sound worth it in my opinion.


----------



## q2klepto

sorrodje said:


> @q2klepto : There's no risk. Just remember the Vali can riiiiiing a bit but the engaging and punchy sound worth it in my opinion.


 
  
 Is that when the united is physically moved? Or is that something else?


----------



## Sorrodje

depends.. for the most sensitive unit it rings when you turn the volume pot.. Even gently. But with the more recent ones, I think it's far less sensitive


----------



## inseconds99

I am in the hunt for an amp to connect to my x7 for my hd800. Looking for something with a slightly warm tilt but I don't want to lose any detail, soundstage or resolution.


----------



## pearljam50000

What's the perfect SS amp , neutral sound, 300$ budget, for HD800?


----------



## Sorrodje

pearljam50000 said:


> What's the perfect SS amp , neutral sound, 300$ budget, for HD800?


 
  
  
 Meier audio Corda Jazz would me my pick. but I presum there's many other good options.


----------



## Dobrescu George

pearljam50000 said:


> What's the perfect SS amp , neutral sound, 300$ budget, for HD800?


 
 Matrix m-stage hpa2. Very clear sounding. There still are more options. 
  
 You should try before buying, this way you will know for good what is your choice.


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks.
 How much of the sound in %, is the DAC, and how much is the amp, with the HD800, would you say?
 Thanks.
 What i mean is, which one has more impact on SQ and which one is more important.
 let's say DAC is 70%, and amp is 30% (for example)


----------



## Dobrescu George

pearljam50000 said:


> Thanks.
> How much of the sound in %, is the DAC, and how much is the amp, with the HD800, would you say?
> Thanks.
> What i mean is, which one has more impact on SQ and which one is more important.
> let's say DAC is 70%, and amp is 30% (for example)


 
 Amp 70%, DAC 30%... But this varies on everyone's taste, These numbers are imagination numbers, because you asked, not real numbers
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 There is not such a thing as a fixed % value for DAC and AMP.
  
 Both the DAC and the AMP are important. Most of times amps change the sound more, or at least this is how it was in my experience.
  
 But it is a matter of taste and expectation what is bad and what is good. There are people happy with hd800 driven from a fiio x5 alone, and people who use hd800 with 5000$+ amps and DACs. 
  
 One thing for sure, hd800 is amazing, and sounds amazing.
  
 But... on the other hand... a good dac can be had for around 100$-200$, and a good amp which is powerfull enough to drive them can be found for 200$-300$. there are options which have a great dac + a great amp in 300$-500$ price range.
  
 A great portable option is ifi idsd micro, very powerful, clean and has a great DAC + great amp. 
  
 There are a pleathora of other options though.


----------



## BobFiggins

Any suggestions for an amp around $300-500 that sounds _*very*_ warm with the HD800? The HD800 sounds excellent at medium level volume, but sometimes I just want to crank it up, though the HD800 seems to sound way too crispy and sharp with the volume too high. 
  
 Debating going back with the Valhalla 2 and do some tube rolling with some super warm tubes if I can't find anything else. I can't deny that the Valhalla 2 sounds amazing, probably better than any other amp I've used yet (to my ears at least). Vali is smoother, but it doesn't sound as good with the HD800 as it did with the HD700.


----------



## thecrow

bobfiggins said:


> Any suggestions for an amp around $300-500 that sounds _*very*_ warm with the HD800? The HD800 sounds excellent at medium level volume, but sometimes I just want to crank it up, though the HD800 seems to sound way too crispy and sharp with the volume too high.
> 
> Debating going back with the Valhalla 2 and do some tube rolling with some super warm tubes if I can't find anything else. I can't deny that the Valhalla 2 sounds amazing, probably better than any other amp I've used yet (to my ears at least). Vali is smoother, but it doesn't sound as good with the HD800 as it did with the HD700.




I know this is over your budget but I tried the v100 Vioelectric. That's warm! Good options if that's what you are after. 

So perhaps look for lake people amps that they are part of. Even second hand.


----------



## Moonhead

Pearljam.. 
  
 Get a Superlux HA3D it one powerfull little amp that can power 3 headphones and runs on 2 AA batteries.
  
 http://www.thomann.de/dk/superlux_ha3d.htm
  
 http://headfonics.com/2011/11/superlux-ha-3d-headphone-amplifier-3-into-1-does-indeed-go/


----------



## Ghaunty22

For one who likes bright midrange synth, vocals & sharp sounds in electronic music, what is a ideal amp for 2K budget Tube or solid state? What are some examples?
  
 Would you touch the eq in player or just keep flat?
  
  
 When one talks of an tube amp sounding natural is this anygood?
  
  
 thanks.
  
  
 edit: forgot to add, want as much soundstage & avoid the sound its coming from in your head as possible.


----------



## thecrow

ghaunty22 said:


> For one who likes bright midrange synth, vocals & sharp sounds in electronic music, what is a ideal amp for 2K budget Tube or solid state? What are some examples?
> 
> Would you touch the eq in player or just keep flat?
> 
> ...



From my limited experience the Burson soloist is great and that's why I have it. Pair it up with a similar serving dac. My irdac has punch and just a touch of warmth which may or may not suit you. As this amp is about 1k abd your budget is 2 in sure you could do better by spending more........

The hdva600/hdvd800 I found had great texture to its sound and brightness. IMHO must have balanced cables

Also heard the Taurus. The thing that stood out for me was how the music came out "as one". And by that I mean the soundstage was there with great imaging. It was extremely well balanced -that's what I mean as everything was as one.


----------



## Sorrodje

bobfiggins said:


> Any suggestions for an amp around $300-500 that sounds _*very*_ warm with the HD800? The HD800 sounds excellent at medium level volume, but sometimes I just want to crank it up, though the HD800 seems to sound way too crispy and sharp with the volume too high.


 
  
 The best way to fix the treble issues if it's bothersome for you is to mod it with the Anaxilus mod.  don"t use gear to fix what you dislike in a headphone. Trust me, That's a waste of time and money.


----------



## Sorrodje

ghaunty22 said:


> For one who likes bright midrange synth, vocals & sharp sounds in electronic music, what is a ideal amp for 2K budget Tube or solid state? What are some examples?


 
  
 For Electronics specifically, I'd go to Solid State.   the HE-9 I have on loan provides gobs of bass slam and extension , impressive soundstage for a Solid State.  for that Kind of budget, I'd personnaly like to try before any buy : Bryston , Ragnarok , Audio GD HE-9 or M9 .
  
 Best tubes amp provide improvements in micro dynamics, timbres, soundstage, clarity.. It's IMO more useful for Acoustic music . I listen to a lot of Electronic Music and I always thought Solid State did the best job fiir that kind of music. EDM are often overly compressed and processed so a "natural" tone does not matter so much. YMMV.


----------



## Moonhead

sorrodje said:


> The best way to fix the treble issues if it's bothersome for you is to mod it with the Anaxilus mod.  don"t use gear to fix what yoy dislike in a headphone. Trust me, That's a waste of time and money.


 

 Amen to that!!  ^  ^


----------



## Ghaunty22

sorrodje said:


> For Electronics specifically, I'd go to Solid State.   the HE-9 I have on loan provides gobs of bass slam and extension , impressive soundstage for a Solid State.  for that Kind of budget, I'd personnaly like to try before any buy : Bryston , Ragnarok , Audio GD HE-9 or M9 .
> 
> Best tubes amp provide improvements in micro dynamics, timbres, soundstage, clarity.. It's IMO more useful for Acoustic music . I listen to a lot of Electronic Music and I always thought Solid State did the best job fiir that kind of music. EDM are often overly compressed and processed so a "natural" tone does not matter so much. YMMV.


 
 Thanks for reply.
  
 I listen late 90's trance mostly. Miles more fun & enjoying over modern stuff. Currently I have the audio-gd nfb10. Sounds great on HD600's when my ears have had a rest like a week. So maybe the HE-9 is the next step.


----------



## Sorrodje

ghaunty22 said:


> So maybe the HE-9 is the next step.


 
  
 I know it's a very serious amount of money but I really think you wouldn't be disappointed.
  
 That been said, for that kind of music (90s trance for example) , I'd maybe choose another headphone than HD800.. I have a HE-6 currently on my desk and I'm seriously thinking about a purchase .. when energy is needed by the music, the HE-6 does wonders... HD800 is really really good for this music but the HE-6's Ortho subs,  bass slam and  forwardness in mids/high mids convey more fun factor.


----------



## BobFiggins

sorrodje said:


> The best way to fix the treble issues if it's bothersome for you is to mod it with the Anaxilus mod.  don"t use gear to fix what you dislike in a headphone. Trust me, That's a waste of time and money.


 
  
 The Anax mod really works that well? I was under the impression it was very slight. Though I'll still likely do it, since it doesn't seem difficult. Might be better to try that before going nuts with tube rolling.


----------



## Sorrodje

bobfiggins said:


> The Anax mod really works that well? I was under the impression it was very slight. Though I'll still likely do it, since it doesn't seem difficult. Might be better to try that before going nuts with tube rolling.


 
  
 It"s more significant (and measurable) that any change of dac & amp for sure  .  I tried once an anax modded HD800 and the treble peak is obviously tamed.  My own Stock HD800 seems to not bother me too much even from Solid State amps I owned or tried but IMO the anax mod anax allow to choose a wider range of amp and dac . The HD800 is less picky and once its treble issues are tamed, it's easier to work on its best qualities ( leading edge, speed, clarity , resolution) with the most transparent, resolving and fast amps and dacs. 
  
 The main caveat with the HD800 is to try to tame it with the gear. In most case, that ends with 70% of what a HD800 is capable of.  it's easier and less pricey to get a better result with a HD6X0. 
  
 I've personaly choosen to take an intermediate route with the DNA Stratus. I'm a one headphone guy and my main music genre is contemporary Jazz. the DNA home sound match well HD800 for this music. If I was a classical listener , I'd probably choose another option. ( EC 4x45 probably from what I read here or there from trustable people ) 
  
 Hope that makes sense.


----------



## BobFiggins

sorrodje said:


> .


 
  
 Thanks for the information Sorrodje!


----------



## Ghaunty22

The audio gd he-9 sounds like its in trouble, not enough reviews or anything. no usd? forget it. Does usb really reduce quality or is this only something Zen masters listening to pure audiophile recordings would hear?
  
 Seems the Violectric hpa V220 would be the go. Not the colossal size of he-9.


----------



## Taowolf51

So what's the story with the Anax mod 3? I've been hearing about it for awhile but haven't really seen a finalized design yet.


----------



## Sorrodje

taowolf51 said:


> So what's the story with the Anax mod 3? I've been hearing about it for awhile but haven't really seen a finalized design yet.


 
  
 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=New+upcoming+mod+HD800+3.0


----------



## billhickok

I am really enjoying my HD800's, which i've purchased about 2 months ago. I am also really disappointed with the silver finish Sennheiser uses on these cans. It seems like if you stare at it long enough, it will develop scuffs/scratches. I've been babying my pair since i've received it...covering it with a high quality microfiber cloth every night, shampooing my hair every single time before I even use my headphones. And yet, i'm seeing more and more marks on the silver paint over time. All minor and obviously purely cosmetic, but still very annoying for someone with OCD who just dropped over $1,000 on a pair of headphones. I noticed a small paint imperfection on an edge a few weeks back, and it now looks like it's grown bigger (and quite noticeable from a few feet.) Grrr.
  
 End rant.


----------



## Ghaunty22

billhickok said:


> I am really enjoying my HD800's, which i've purchased about 2 months ago. I am also really disappointed with the silver finish Sennheiser uses on these cans. It seems like if you stare at it long enough, it will develop scuffs/scratches. I've been babying my pair since i've received it...covering it with a high quality microfiber cloth every night, shampooing my hair every single time before I even use my headphones. And yet, i'm seeing more and more marks on the silver paint over time. All minor and obviously purely cosmetic, but still very annoying for someone with OCD who just dropped over $1,000 on a pair of headphones. I noticed a small paint imperfection on an edge a few weeks back, and it now looks like it's grown bigger (and quite noticeable from a few feet.) Grrr.
> 
> End rant.


 
 Personally the hd800s have a look that resembles a cheap star wars lightsabre in a plastic package. Nothing in this world is made to hold up, dunno why you would cover it every night? Even the softest Microfiber cloths will put fine scarthes in over time no matter what anyone says. Dry is worse than wet. And as far as I can tell all MF cloths are now coarser than those from 5-6yrs ago. Nothing in this mass produced world is made to last long, its all mediocre finishes that easily get chipped. And I beat those expreme $$$ vintage headphones have a lousy thin clear finish on them, unlike a true piano finish.


----------



## uchihaitachi

There also seems genuine HD800 some which are made in Germany and some that are made in China. 
  
 They all have proper identified serial numbers, that you can check with the main Sennheiser HQ and seem legitimately made, not some random knock off. I am quite confused by this. Anybody know about this discrepancy?


----------



## wink

Doesn't sound right to me...........


----------



## longbowbbs

Mine are years old and I do not treat them like they are delicate. No scratches so far.


----------



## Rayzilla

I just received my portable Headstage Arrow 5P dac/amp. It's playing between my MB Air and HD-800. All settings are at "0" or Low for Frequency. The bass... Oh my...
  
 To clarify, the Bass and Treble are set at "0" rather than "I" or "II". The Frequency is set at "L" rather than "M" or "H". For the Frequency, which setting would give the least bass impact?


----------



## zilch0md

pearljam50000 said:


> What's the perfect SS amp , neutral sound, 300$ budget, for HD800?


 
  
 Of all the SS amps I've heard with the HD800 in that price range, my favorite is the single-ended, Class A, 2W into 32-Ohm NuForce HA-200.
  
 That's why I'm selling it.


----------



## whirlwind

longbowbbs said:


> Mine are years old and I do not treat them like they are delicate. No scratches so far.


 
 Yeah, I bought mine used and they were well taken care of and i have had them for a year, I always have them on my headphone stand when not in use, I never even lay them on my desk....they look practically brand new.


----------



## billhickok

whirlwind said:


> Yeah, I bought mine used and they were well taken care of and i have had them for a year, I always have them on my headphone stand when not in use, I never even lay them on my desk....they look practically brand new.


 

 I do the same in regards to keeping it on a headphone stand at all times. They're not exactly scratches...well there are a few very faint ones that only can be seen when inspected very closely. It's mostly the paint/finish which seems to be extremely cheap, which is something I'm pretty disappointed with when we're talking about one of the most expensive mass-produced headphones in the world. For those saying their year old pairs don't have any marks, maybe check very closely (under good lighting) along all the edges of the silver plastic. Most of the imperfections I've found are there, but again I have OCD and most people wouldn't ever notice them.
  


ghaunty22 said:


> Personally the hd800s have a look that resembles a cheap star wars lightsabre in a plastic package. Nothing in this world is made to hold up, dunno why you would cover it every night? Even the softest Microfiber cloths will put fine scarthes in over time no matter what anyone says. Dry is worse than wet. And as far as I can tell all MF cloths are now coarser than those from 5-6yrs ago. Nothing in this mass produced world is made to last long, its all mediocre finishes that easily get chipped. And I beat those expreme $$$ vintage headphones have a lousy thin clear finish on them, unlike a true piano finish.


 
  
 Don't really agree with this. Just as an example, the aluminum used on the unibody Macbook Pro's is very high quality. My 2009 MBP is in nearly perfect condition and I've tossed it around and have used it everywhere with no protection. I know it's not an apple-to-apples comparison (pun intended) since the HD800's are plastic. But regardless, Sennheiser could of still manufactured the headphones with a much higher quality finish/paint (e.g. Colorware custom finishes) with little increase to the cost. The retail price of $1499/$1599 USD is a significant mark-up compared to how much this headphone would cost to make (true for nearly all premium products.)
  
 Also, I use a large microfiber cloth that's made out of material used to wipe eyeglass lenses...not the ones used to wipe cars that can be purchased in bulk for cheap. I seriously doubt simply hanging one over anything would scratch it. Even a plain 100% cotton towel shouldn't scratch most objects through simple contact, unless the product's extremely cheap. Also to address your question about why I do it, it's mostly to keep it from accumulating dust/dirt.


----------



## lukeap69

zilch0md said:


> Of all the SS amps I've heard with the HD800 in that price range, my favorite is the single-ended, Class A, 2W into 32-Ohm NuForce HA-200.
> 
> That's why I'm selling it.


 
 It's difficult to be your favourite...


----------



## pearljam50000

If you like it so much why are you selling it? 


zilch0md said:


> Of all the SS amps I've heard with the HD800 in that price range, my favorite is the single-ended, Class A, 2W into 32-Ohm NuForce HA-200.
> 
> That's why I'm selling it.


----------



## Taowolf51

sorrodje said:


> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=New+upcoming+mod+HD800+3.0


 
  
 So nothing more than I already know? Shame, I've been waiting for the Anax 3.0 before trying to mod my HD800's. Guess I can wait longer, though.


----------



## Ghaunty22

billhickok said:


> I do the same in regards to keeping it on a headphone stand at all times. They're not exactly scratches...well there are a few very faint ones that only can be seen when inspected very closely. It's mostly the paint/finish which seems to be extremely cheap, which is something I'm pretty disappointed with when we're talking about one of the most expensive mass-produced headphones in the world. For those saying their year old pairs don't have any marks, maybe check very closely (under good lighting) along all the edges of the silver plastic. Most of the imperfections I've found are there, but again I have OCD and most people wouldn't ever notice them.
> 
> 
> Don't really agree with this. Just as an example, the aluminum used on the unibody Macbook Pro's is very high quality. My 2009 MBP is in nearly perfect condition and I've tossed it around and have used it everywhere with no protection. I know it's not an apple-to-apples comparison (pun intended) since the HD800's are plastic. But regardless, Sennheiser could of still manufactured the headphones with a much higher quality finish/paint (e.g. Colorware custom finishes) with little increase to the cost. The retail price of $1499/$1599 USD is a significant mark-up compared to how much this headphone would cost to make (true for nearly all premium products.)
> ...


 
 At the end of the day getting a custom paint job with colorware would cost me alot more than what they typical sell for in my area. 
  
 Curious, any one with automotive paint background/experience want to comment on the quality of colorware if you went through them? The online photos don't reveal the real detail. They do tend to look only a small step up from acrylic quality in some photos.


----------



## joshk4

Just got the hd800 today.. 
After comparing it to he 560 with these.. I find the hd 800 soundstage, detail and clarity makes it quite a clear winner over he 560.. prob just my taste.

Was lucky enough to try th 900, t1 and oppo pm 1 as it was all demoable in store. 
Im suprised at how 'bad' sounding the th 900 and oppo pm1 is compared to hd800, he 560 and t1. But that's my personal taste again. 

Also got to pair the hd 800 to hdvd800, pretty much near perfect. Hd800 with oppo ha 1 is not even close..


----------



## Ghaunty22

Still looking for an dac, preamp, headamp solution. Got to be balanced & usb input
  
 The hdvd800 seems like a good amp
 The V281 seems overkill, just crazy expensive & probably not that good DAC?
 gracem903 front outputs are not balanced
 Don't know what else audio gd range has that is a big step up from nfb10 (must be dac/preamp/headamp)


----------



## deuter

I have tried  the hd800 with a few expensive amps,  and so far the Bakoon hda 5210 mk3  has come out as my favourite.


----------



## zilch0md

lukeap69 said:


> It's difficult to be your favourite...




It truly has been difficult to put the HA-200 up for sale, as I like it so much, but it's only my favorite HD800 amp in the $300 price range.  

My roughly $1000 Metrum Acoustics Aurix, though better with the HD800 overall than the HA-200, and especially in terms of resolution without fatigue, does not win in terms of bang-for-the-buck, sound stage, a more "forgiving" nature with less than perfect recordings, or raw power (and thus, versatility with other headphones, like my planar magnetics) and lastly, upgradability (optional conversion to dual mono). 

It was the HA-200 that first ended my year long love-hate relationship with the HD800, allowing me to actually enjoy the HD800 for listening to music instead of only using it as a microscope for analyzing and comparing upstream components. 

Mike


----------



## lukeap69

zilch0md said:


> It truly has been difficult to put the HA-200 up for sale, as I like it so much, but it's only my favorite HD800 amp in the $300 price range.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Got you and that makes a lot of sense.


----------



## batracom

I am a recent convert to the HD800 creed and have to say that I am greatly enjoying the pairing with the Valhalla 2. The one bugbear I have remaining is the comfort of the headband - whilst the earpads are light and create no discomfort, the headband keeps pressuring my upper skull and creating discomfort. Does anyone know of any mod, or even removable extra padding which can be used to relieve the pressure and make the headband more comfortable? Many thanks


----------



## Lanvin

I just got an HD800 today. I cant believe that some people describe it as bass-light.


----------



## koiloco

lanvin said:


> I just got an HD800 today. I cant believe that some people describe it as bass-light.


 
 In comparison to Beats?


----------



## Dobrescu George

lanvin said:


> I just got an HD800 today. I cant believe that some people describe it as bass-light.


 
 It reallt depends on the past experiences and what headphones one has used in the past.
  
 It is great that you fiind the bass enough!


----------



## pearljam50000

The bass is incredible.
Any more than that is too much for my taste.


----------



## Dobrescu George

pearljam50000 said:


> The bass is incredible.
> Any more than that is too much for my taste.


 
 I really should go and have a longer listen with hd800. 
  
 Last time I did this, it was pretty good, but I was more paying attention to soundstage than other characteristics.


----------



## rogerthatmand

Hello all,
 I have the HD650 paired with the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball. 
 I'm really interested in getting the HD800. How do you think the HD800 will pair with the Crack + Speedball?
 (Once I paired the HD700 with O2+ODAC and I couldn't stand the brightness and the treble peaks)


----------



## yates7592

Bass on HD800 goes quite deep enough in terms of frequency. The problem for people who listen to rock or reggae, for example, is that the weight of the low end is quite light, so not much punch or weight. I am not a bass head but always found HD800 lacking in that regard even with very powerful amps, excellent cans though they otherwise are. Bass will be excellent for classical etc.


----------



## skeptic

rogerthatmand said:


> Hello all,
> I have the HD650 paired with the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball.
> I'm really interested in getting the HD800. How do you think the HD800 will pair with the Crack + Speedball?
> (Once I paired the HD700 with O2+ODAC and I couldn't stand the brightness and the treble peaks)


 
  
 I enjoyed the hd800 -> modded crack + speedball combo for quite a while, and there is certainly plenty of listening pleasure to be found with the combo, particularly when aided with a little tube rolling and the anax mod.  Crack can be a little bright up top with hd800's, but the mod (a little foam cutout dropped in the ear side of the cups - http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod ), totally resolves that, and I think most would acknowledge it as one of the better moderately priced hd800 amps (although some will disagree).  Google "best hd800 amps" and click the first link for more discussion on this.  
  
 Totally agree with you that O2+Odac is unbearable with hd800's.  Even tried the agdr booster mod, and it made no difference.
  
 That said, if you go the hd800 route, I would predict you eventually find yourself upgrading to a more refined amp as budget permits.  Mainline is an awesome option if you have another BH build in you.


----------



## rogerthatmand

skeptic said:


> I enjoyed the hd800 -> modded crack + speedball combo for quite a while, and there is certainly plenty of listening pleasure to be found with the combo, particularly when aided with a little tube rolling and the anax mod.  Crack can be a little bright up top with hd800's, but the mod (a little foam cutout dropped in the ear side of the cups - http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod ), totally resolves that, and I think most would acknowledge it as one of the better moderately priced hd800 amps (although some will disagree).  Google "best hd800 amps" and click the first link for more discussion on this.
> 
> Totally agree with you that O2+Odac is unbearable with hd800's.  Even tried the agdr booster mod, and it made no difference.
> 
> That said, if you go the hd800 route, I would predict you eventually find yourself upgrading to a more refined amp as budget permits.  Mainline is an awesome option if you have another BH build in you.


 
 Wow really? The Crack can be bright with the HD800's? If so, I think it's absolutely not an option for me


----------



## ubs28

yates7592 said:


> Bass on HD800 goes quite deep enough in terms of frequency. The problem for people who listen to rock or reggae, for example, is that the weight of the low end is quite light, so not much punch or weight. I am not a bass head but always found HD800 lacking in that regard even with very powerful amps, excellent cans though they otherwise are. Bass will be excellent for classical etc.


 

 It's easy to fix with an EQ if you need more bass.


----------



## thecrow

lanvin said:


> I just got an HD800 today. I cant believe that some people describe it as bass-light.


----------



## pearljam50000

When i listen to electronic music the drivers pound on my eardrums and feel the pressure ,so anything more than that will be crazy for me.
Maybe i have a"bass heavy" pair lol, because some describe variations of sound with different sets, but i am not sure.


----------



## chuck8403

Just pulled the trigger on an HD800 today. Looking forward to hear the differences between some of my other headphones. Based on some of the comments in this thread, I am also going to enjoy trying these out on different amps. Should be a fun journey.


----------



## Mortalcoil

deleted


----------



## skeptic

rogerthatmand said:


> Wow really? The Crack can be bright with the HD800's? If so, I think it's absolutely not an option for me


 
  
 To elaborate a little, this will depend on your tubes, listening level, particular pair of hd800's and whether or not you are willing to try the anax mod (which seriously takes less than an hour to make and can be dropped in and taken out again in less than a minute if you don't like it/want to experiment from track to track).  Crack and hd800's do not ever sound lean and bright together, like the O2, and will give the hd800's some of the same subtle fullness you get with your hd650's.  In fact, due to the relatively high output impedance, hd800's get a small bass boost out of the crack and other OTL amps due to the headphone's own impedance curve.  Purrin posted graphs of this on another site that you can find if you google up hd800 and 120 ohm IEC standard.
  
 That said, because of the small peak most hd800's have at ~6khz, with certain music, the pairing can be bright on occasion when compared to amps with really refined highs and presumably lower high order and transient distortion.  Tubes also make a big difference here.  Combos that are great with hd650's, like a clear top and 5998, can be brighter that what was ideal to my ears, than, for example, a tungsol or amperex 12au7 and a good 6080 or 6as7g.  All in all, a good but not perfect, combo.
  
 FWIW, if I ever had to compromise my main rig by selling either my hd800's or mainline, I would prefer to live with the mainline and hd650's as opposed to crack and hd800's.


----------



## Loquah

I'd agree with that. The Mainline does more for lesser headphones than the HD800 does for lesser amps.


----------



## NightFlight

The bottom end in the HDTracks Bob Marley Kaya album is un-abashedly present.  Its been said before, when the recording calls for it, it makes a good show.


----------



## shabta

skeptic said:


> FWIW, if I ever had to compromise my main rig by selling either my hd800's or mainline, I would prefer to live with the mainline and hd650's as opposed to crack and hd800's.


 
 Nope. I had a HD650 and a few barely ok amps when I got the hd800. I would definitely take an hd800 with a mediocre amp over an HD650 and a great amp... Just to prove the point that YMMV...


----------



## TMRaven

shabta said:


> Nope. I had a HD650 and a few barely ok amps when I got the hd800. I would definitely take an hd800 with a mediocre amp over an HD650 and a great amp... Just to prove the point that YMMV...


 

 I concur.  I've no doubt the HD800 scales nicely, but I feel the whole notion about it sounding horrible on entry level stuff is blown out of proportion.  I even quite like it out of my macbook air or iMac.  Regardless of the upstream gear however, I always tame its treble with EQ and give the sub-bass a bit of a boost.


----------



## elvergun

tmraven said:


> I concur.  I've no doubt the HD800 scales nicely,* but I feel the whole notion about it sounding horrible on entry level stuff is blown out of proportion.*  I even quite like it out of my macbook air or iMac.  Regardless of the upstream gear however, I always tame its treble with EQ and give the sub-bass a bit of a boost.


 

 +1
  
  
 Gotta love elitism.


----------



## thecrow

tmraven said:


> I concur.  I've no doubt the HD800 scales nicely, but I feel the whole notion about it sounding horrible on entry level stuff is blown out of proportion.  I even quite like it out of my macbook air or iMac.  Regardless of the upstream gear however, I always tame its treble with EQ and give the sub-bass a bit of a boost.


+2


----------



## ruthieandjohn

tmraven said:


> I concur.  I've no doubt the HD800 scales nicely, but I feel the whole notion about it sounding horrible on entry level stuff is blown out of proportion.  I even quite like it out of my macbook air or iMac.  Regardless of the upstream gear however, I always tame its treble with EQ and give the sub-bass a bit of a boost.


----------



## Dobrescu George

ruthieandjohn said:


>


 
 I consider that Hd800 needs power, but from a 200$-300$ amp it can sound amazing. In fact, I would not buy a more expensive amp for hd800, simply because I can fiind happiness with hd800 and something cheap


----------



## Sorrodje

Just take the first opportunity to listen a totl rig... then decide if your current rig is enough... I thought like you 2 years ago. Now I have a total DAC... and the stratus is ordered.


----------



## inseconds99

dobrescu george said:


> I consider that Hd800 needs power, but from a 200$-300$ amp it can sound amazing. In fact, I would not buy a more expensive amp for hd800, simply because I can fiind happiness with hd800 and something cheap




I tend to agree with this, too much misinformation and overhyping in the audiophile world. I agree that some will be able to pick out and appreciate subtle changes in sound but for the vast majority of people it's all a placebo. I currently own a sound blaster x7 and the hd800 and I find the sound to be excellent. I will soon be purchasing either a m-stage hpa2 or a vali/Valhalla2. I haven't decided yet as I have a small feeling that whatever one I purchase will end up getting returned because the sound difference between my x7 and say a Valhalla 2 will not be worth the $400 more spent. So I try to order from Amazon exclusively for this possibility and the hpa2 is overpriced on Amazon, Valhalla 2 is out of stock and the vali is my only option.


----------



## negura

Guys. The best that I can wish to you and your wallets is to continue to be happy with what you've got for as long as possible. =) And perhaps even better stop reading these forums, and delete your account. By all means avoid opportunities to hear new equipment. 
  
 Unfortunately with audio, we don't know what we don't know. And sometimes it's better.


----------



## Dobrescu George

inseconds99 said:


> I tend to agree with this, too much misinformation and overhyping in the audiophile world. I agree that some will be able to pick out and appreciate subtle changes in sound but for the vast majority of people it's all a placebo. I currently own a sound blaster x7 and the hd800 and I find the sound to be excellent. I will soon be purchasing either a m-stage hpa2 or a vali/Valhalla2. I haven't decided yet as I have a small feeling that whatever one I purchase will end up getting returned because the sound difference between my x7 and say a Valhalla 2 will not be worth the $400 more spent. So I try to order from Amazon exclusively for this possibility and the hpa2 is overpriced on Amazon, Valhalla 2 is out of stock and the vali is my only option.


 
 I had personally listened to hpa2. 
  
 It is the main amp I would buy for hd800.
  
 It is extremely clear, and sounds fine in all aspects.
  
 I would love hd800 more from a hugo as I tested, and probably from other amps which are more expensive, but it all depends on how much cash you have to spend on a hobby.


----------



## Dobrescu George

negura said:


> Guys. The best that I can wish to you and your wallets is to continue to be happy with what you've got for as long as possible. =) Even better stop reading the forums and by all means avoid opportunities to hear new equipment. I am serious.
> 
> Unfortunately with audio, we don't know what we don't know. And sometimes it's better.


 
 I would really also suggest to not go to showrooms and listen tot he most expensive thing they have there. This is the reason I am on this thread, and am trying to buy a hd800, and an amp for it..


----------



## Dobrescu George

sorrodje said:


> Just take the first opportunity to listen a totl rig... then decide if your current rig is enough... I thought like you 2 years ago. Now I have a total DAC... and the stratus is ordered.


 
 I also agree with you. It is because I listened to a extremely good rig that I am trying to buy more and better equipment. 
  
 But I think that I would stop at a certain point where I am happy with the sound I get. 
  
 For IEMs I stopped at ie800. 
  
 For portable amps i stopped at Fiio e12a. though, it is the only one I heared in the lower tier prices, I must admit that it competes great with very expensive ones. 
  
 For DACs I would stop at Hugo, even though I am just so happy with my fiio x5 too as a DAC. 
  
 For headphones I would stop at hd800, or ultrasone sig dj.
  
 Hm.. I am not the kind that would not stop at low. 
  
 Also, when listening to a high end rig, it is a great ideea to use your own music, own encoded files. I made the mistake of testing rigs with songs that I did not know well, and they sounded better in that moment than they really sound.
  
 Anyways, I hope that your current rigs will bring you happiness, I know how it is to yearn for a better SQ. (I have been using ie8 for quite a while, even after knowing how ie800 sounded)


----------



## inseconds99

dobrescu george said:


> I had personally listened to hpa2.
> 
> It is the main amp I would buy for hd800.
> 
> ...




That amp and dac is 199.99 from massdrop, I ordered it then cancelled it as I just feel like I'm wasting 200 on an amp when I already have one. The worst thing is I need to get a shorter cable as the stock cable is so long it has to lay on the floor and I'm afraid my chair is gonna run it over one day. The problem is that every non tangle free (I hate stiff cables) 5-6 foot cable is so over priced it's unreal. I haven't found one under $250 yet. The markup on this stuff is unreal, I'd be suprised if it cost more then $50-60 to make the cable and because it's for the hd800 there is an over $200 markup.

Anyone know a 5-6 foot hd800 cable that is not stiff or tangle free as I want the cable to be flexible and able to be managed easily for less then $200?


----------



## elvergun

sorrodje said:


> Just take the first opportunity to listen a totl rig... then decide if your current rig is enough... I thought like you 2 years ago. Now I have a total DAC... and the stratus is ordered.


 
  
  
 So...are you saying that he can't be happy unless he spends two or three grand?


----------



## inseconds99

Has anyone ordered from this website before? http://www.bestintheversecables.com/
  
 Seems to have some decent prices on cables, no paypal though so I am a little wary.


----------



## Sorrodje

elvergun said:


> So...are you saying that he can't be happy unless he spends two or three grand?





Nope. I just say you can't know if you're happy enough if you don't know if you miss something... or not. 

If I didn't hear a sr009 or an abyss or a he-6 I wouldn't know I'm happy enough with the hd800.

All is in the "enough".


----------



## elvergun

sorrodje said:


> Nope. I just say you can't know if you're happy enough if you don't know if you miss something... or not.
> 
> If I didn't hear a sr009 or an abyss or a he-6 I wouldn't know I'm happy enough with the hd800.
> 
> All is in the "enough".


 
  
  
 So...are you saying that I can't have a healthy relationship with my wife (who is just pretty) unless I have sex with a supermodel?


----------



## Sorrodje

Basically in a logical way of thinking yes.


But human relationships, moral rules and headphones are different things in my mind. I didn't swear fidelity to my headphones and I didn't buy my wife on amazon...


----------



## Dobrescu George

sorrodje said:


> Basically in a logical way of thinking yes.
> 
> 
> But human relationships, moral rules and headphones are different things in my mind. I didn't swear fidelity to my headphones and I didn't buy my wife on amazon...


 
 Ha!
  
 This is a nice way to put it. 


elvergun said:


> So...are you saying that I can't have a healthy relationship with my wife (who is just pretty) unless I have sex with a supermodel?


 
 I think that you got it the wrong way.
  
 You use your ears with the headphones.


----------



## lukeap69

dobrescu george said:


> *You use your ears with the headphones. *


 
 ROTFL!


----------



## skeptic

shabta said:


> Nope. I had a HD650 and a few barely ok amps when I got the hd800. I would definitely take an hd800 with a mediocre amp over an HD650 and a great amp... Just to prove the point that YMMV...


 
  
 Just to be clear, with many pairings I would agree with you.  But my comment, which you quoted, was specifically in reference to the crack, in answer to roger's question about _that amp_.  Hd650's sound particularly good with the mainline, _to me_, relative to how I perceive my hd800's through my crack.  These are combos I have spent hundreds of hours listening to, and I thought a comparative statement might be of use to some in the thread under the hypothetical that I had to sell off either my mainline or hd800s.  As indicated in my signature block, hd800's driven by the mainline are what I listen to every evening, and I want for nothing with the yggy as a source.  
  
 I didn't make any global statement or slam on mid-priced amps.  In fact, if you go back in the thread, you will find I have previously commented that hd800's are plenty enjoyable right out of the HP jack on my marantz HTR, but I think most of us would agree that they do scale in a significant manner and sound particularly good with certain amps, if you have had the opportunity to sample a wide variety of what is out there.   
  
 YMMV is a truism as to any audio gear, but if you haven't heard the mainline, you really aren't in a position to say "nope."  All the +1's and posts the piggy-backing on yours seem premised on a misreading of what I actually posted.  Reading comprehension seems to be a lost art in these parts.


----------



## OJNeg

BTW, was listening to Doc B's tape rig with HD800 driven by Mainline at THE Show. Absolutely sublime. Best headphone sound I heard Sunday. Obviously couldn't put on my own recordings but that's the sort of "Quit Head-Fi Forever" sound that incites envy.


----------



## thecrow

dobrescu george said:


> Ha!
> 
> This is a nice way to put it.
> I think that you got it the wrong way.
> ...



Reminds me of the story of the guy who walks in on his wife with another man. His head in her bosom (I'm trying to keep this clean-ish). 

The husband says "what are you doing?" The man responds "I'm listening to music". So the husband tried to outsmart him and puts his head in her bosom too. The husband says "I can't hear a thing". The man replies "that's because you're not plugged in yet"


----------



## skeptic

ojneg said:


> BTW, was listening to Doc B's tape rig with HD800 driven by Mainline at THE Show. Absolutely sublime. Best headphone sound I heard Sunday. Obviously couldn't put on my own recordings but that's the sort of "Quit Head-Fi Forever" sound that incites envy.


 
  
 Wish I could have attended and delighted you liked the mainline so much!  Must have been really fun to meet Doc and his better half in person, and I hear that front end tape rig is just godly.  Here's hoping I have a similar opportunity to give it a listen some day.


----------



## thecrow

Looking for some experienced views n the aurix amp with the hd800 for those here that gave it or have heard it. 

I've seen a few headfiers describe it as an amp that hits the spot for them. But not a lot of reviews around. 

Is it a vibrant / bright amp or a darker amp? I have read it described as laid back. How's the detail and soundstage?

I have recently heard the violectric v100 and Taurus and own the soloist if they make for a decent reference point. 

I do like my soloist in that it is fairly punchy and vibrant with goid detail for the price and I don't like my amps on the darker side. If looking for an upgrade in the future is the Aurix worth considering?

Your experienced opinions would be much appreciated. 

Cheers
Peter


----------



## Taowolf51

inseconds99 said:


> Has anyone ordered from this website before? http://www.bestintheversecables.com/
> 
> Seems to have some decent prices on cables, no paypal though so I am a little wary.


 
  
 Best in the verse is very popular on the Reddit's r/headphones, you can find plenty of experiences (almost always positive) there.
  
 If I were to get a new cable for my HD800's, it would very likely be from them (mostly because of price, I'm not a big cable audio person).


----------



## heart banger-97

Hey guys, Has Sennheiser recently increased the price of hd800?
 It has been expensive. Now, it's ...


----------



## HiFiChris

^^^
  
 Yes, they have, just like Audez'e and AKG. That's why I'm glad I bought mine last year.


----------



## shabta

skeptic said:


> Just to be clear, with many pairings I would agree with you.  But my comment, which you quoted, was specifically in reference to the crack, in answer to roger's question about _that amp_.  Hd650's sound particularly good with the mainline, _to me_, relative to how I perceive my hd800's through my crack.  These are combos I have spent hundreds of hours listening to, and I thought a comparative statement might be of use to some in the thread under the hypothetical that I had to sell off either my mainline or hd800s.  As indicated in my signature block, hd800's driven by the mainline are what I listen to every evening, and I want for nothing with the yggy as a source.
> 
> I didn't make any global statement or slam on mid-priced amps.  In fact, if you go back in the thread, you will find I have previously commented that hd800's are plenty enjoyable right out of the HP jack on my marantz HTR, but I think most of us would agree that they do scale in a significant manner and sound particularly good with certain amps, if you have had the opportunity to sample a wide variety of what is out there.
> 
> YMMV is a truism as to any audio gear, but if you haven't heard the mainline, you really aren't in a position to say "nope."  All the +1's and posts the piggy-backing on yours seem premised on a misreading of what I actually posted.  Reading comprehension seems to be a lost art in these parts.


 
 Not only have I heard the mainline, but I didn't find that it changed the basic character of the hd650s nor of the hd800s. We just don't agree, that is not such a big deal. I would take the hd800s on a mediocre amp any day over a mainline crack with the hd650s. I like the hd650s, but, for example, they will never image nor have the transient response of the hd800s no matter what amp you pair them with. So, NOPE


----------



## Dobrescu George

shabta said:


> Not only have I heard the mainline, but I didn't find that it changed the basic character of the hd650s nor of the hd800s. We just don't agree, that is not such a big deal. I would take the hd800s on a mediocre amp any day over a mainline crack with the hd650s. I like the hd650s, but, for example, they will never image nor have the transient response of the hd800s no matter what amp you pair them with. So, NOPE


 
 Hd650 have a much different signature man, it is hard to compare it to hd800. 
  
 I think that it even targets a different market. Hd650 has a very smooth, relaxing presentation. It is more for a casual listener, where hd800 with it's comfort, and extreme detail are more for the serious listener. Both are very good porducts, that are un-beatable in my book.
  
 One mistery for me is for who is targeted hd700, but that discussion is for another time on another thread I think, and myabe after I get to hear Hd700.


----------



## pearljam50000

HD800 is the best headphone on the market, as a package.

1. Build quality(Hand built), reliability ,and 2 year warranty.
 2.Sound , of course.
3.price( compared to other flaghips)

At it's price, among all other flagahips, it gives the best value for money, in my opinion.


----------



## heart banger-97

pearljam50000 said:


> HD800 is the best headphone on the market, as a package.
> 
> 1. Build quality(Hand built), reliability ,and 2 year warranty.
> 2.Sound , of course.
> ...


 
 How do you like it with Rock/Metal (mostly progressive, Heavy)? With recent increase in their price (in my local store) I have doubt about them again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## skeptic

shabta said:


> Not only have I heard the mainline, but I didn't find that it changed the basic character of the hd650s nor of the hd800s. We just don't agree, that is not such a big deal. I would take the hd800s on a mediocre amp any day over a mainline crack with the hd650s. I like the hd650s, but, for example, they will never image nor have the transient response of the hd800s no matter what amp you pair them with. So, NOPE


 
  
 My bad and well played! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Glad you have had a chance to hear the mainline with both of these phones even if we don't hear them quite the same way.  I agree with your comment that no gear will ever elevate hd650's to the hd800's level of technical prowess, particularly in terms of imaging and transient response, and I would add to that detail and resolution as well.  That said, I do find the hd650's incredibly enjoyable and immersive with certain high end amps, like the mainline and zana, such that my listening pleasure with these combos trumps my listening pleasure with the hd800's and crack (which I, in fact, like better than the vast majority mid-priced amps I've heard with the hd800's).


----------



## shabta

skeptic said:


> My bad and well played!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## pearljam50000

Well that's kind of a hard question, because with some rock albums they don't sound that good, but i blame the recordings not the HD800.
With well recorded Rock and Metal( Led zeppelin remasters, some Radiohead, Pink Floyd ,Tool etc...) they sound AMAZING.
Yes the price increase sucks,sorry.


heart banger-97 said:


> How do you like it with Rock/Metal (mostly progressive, Heavy)? With recent increase in their price (in my local store) I have doubt about them again  .


----------



## heart banger-97

pearljam50000 said:


> Well that's kind of a hard question, because with some rock albums they don't sound that good, but i blame the recordings not the HD800.
> With well recorded Rock and Metal( Led zeppelin remasters, some Radiohead, Pink Floyd ,Tool etc...) they sound AMAZING.
> Yes the price increase sucks,sorry.



Thanks,
Have you listened to he560? Do you think that there is a difference in sound quality bewbetween them when I listen to rock/metal?
I'm buying them for most technical bands. Mostly progressive ones (dream theater, pink floyd, king crimson, tool, Symphony X, led zeppelin, Yes, ...) to heavy metal ones (black sabbath, Iron Maiden, deep purple, ...) and some thrash (Metallica, megadeth, ...)


----------



## joshk4

heart banger-97 said:


> Thanks,
> Have you listened to he560? Do you think that there is a difference in sound quality bewbetween them when I listen to rock/metal?
> I'm buying them for most technical bands. Mostly progressive ones (dream theater, pink floyd, king crimson, tool, Symphony X, led zeppelin, Yes, ...) to heavy metal ones (black sabbath, Iron Maiden, deep purple, ...) and some thrash (Metallica, megadeth, ...)




I have tried both of them at the same time at a local store. I was planning to get the he 560 due to impressive reviews, but after listening to hd 800... for me personally, he 560 is no where near hd 800. Hd 800 has much more detail, clarity, soundstage and tighter/punchy bass..


----------



## thecrow

heart banger-97 said:


> Thanks,
> Have you listened to he560? Do you think that there is a difference in sound quality bewbetween them when I listen to rock/metal?
> I'm buying them for most technical bands. Mostly progressive ones (dream theater, pink floyd, king crimson, tool, Symphony X, led zeppelin, Yes, ...) to heavy metal ones (black sabbath, Iron Maiden, deep purple, ...) and some thrash (Metallica, megadeth, ...)




Like joshk4 I auditioned both the he560 and the hd800. Heavily. I loved the he560 and this gave me a real wow moment when I first heard it and was about to buy it (after listening to it on 2 or 3 different occasions) but then I decided to literally pick up a pair of the hd800s, just in case, and they too had a wow factor. 

At that point I wanted to like the hd800 but was thinking I would come back and buy the he560s due to what I then described as musical offerring. 

When I went back to the store to try them out again it surprisingly ended up being a somewhat easy decision for me to choose the hd800s. I would have happily bought both if there was a buy one get one free offer but unfortunately that wasn't the case. 

For me, I loved the detail/analytical nature of the hd800. And I loved the upper mids and great timbre of the he560s. Two different headphones. The he560s offered as much bass as I would want (ie no more please) and the hd800s offered up to the maximum brightness that I like. 

I mostly went with the hd800s because of the detail and openness/soundstage. And the bottom end is present even though not dominant. And I knew if I had bought the he560s I would often wonder, "I wonder what this album would sound like with the hd800s?" I don't have that the other way around. 

I have been surprised how good pink floyd sounds with these. The detail from those recordings come across very well. With deep purple, and I do love a lot of my deep purple Mk III (stormbringer, burn), the hd800s do okay but I don't find they dance with those recordings. 

Unless you are wanting some real strongly present bottom end/warm headphones then the hd800s should suit your well detailed recordings but your deep purple kind of stuff may need more. From memory, the led Zeppelin rematered stuff sounded pretty decent too. 

But I guess later you can always choose your dac and amp to tweak your overall sound. 

If detail and soundstage is very much important to you then the hd800s are definitely worth considering. They are analytical but in my opinion stil musical If it isn't as crucial then perhaps the he560, which still has good detail once you remove the hd800s from the equation, are worth looking at for decent detail and a real lively resonating fuller sound. There are some really good extended reviews of the he560 around here. One particular review/thread goes into heaps of detail. 

Either way you won't go wrong with either of these. 

I guess, thinking off the cuff, the he560s really rock ( with good detail) but the hd800s are something quite special when it comes to well produced music when looking to burrow In to the detail. But as I mentioned the hd800s does have clarity in the bottom end , so I wouldn't consider it bass lite, but the he560s do rock a little harder with sparkling mids and treble and real warm timbre. 

Good luck.


----------



## joshk4

^ what he said and +1 to led zeppelin


----------



## inseconds99

Hey @pearljam50000 looks like we found our amp and dac http://www.head-fi.org/t/770610/introducing-the-matrix-m-stage-hpa-3u-and-hpa-3b-review-to-follow#post_11667407
  
 M-Stage HPA-3U looks to be the latest release, already available on there website, and available through amazon for around $400. It does 420mW/300Ω which is a nice step up from 200mW on the HPA-2. I joined the drop for the HPA-2 massdrop the other day because it was 199.99 but I just cancelled it before the drop ends tonight. This seems to be an all around better choice and I'm sure it will be available on amazon for 3-350 in the next month or so.


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks buddy!
Looks exciting 


inseconds99 said:


> Hey @pearljam50000
> looks like we found our amp and dac http://www.head-fi.org/t/770610/introducing-the-matrix-m-stage-hpa-3u-and-hpa-3b-review-to-follow#post_11667407
> 
> M-Stage HPA-3U looks to be the latest release, already available on there website, and available through amazon for around $400. It does 420mW/300Ω which is a nice step up from 200mW on the HPA-2. I joined the drop for the HPA-2 massdrop the other day because it was 199.99 but I just cancelled it before the drop ends tonight. This seems to be an all around better choice and I'm sure it will be available on amazon for 3-350 in the next month or so.


----------



## longbowbbs

HD800's being fed by the ALO Audio Studio Six and the Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 DSDse produce incredible bass response! Easily keeping up with my LCD-X's.  Absolutely sublime combination.


----------



## Sorrodje

HD800 + Audio-GD HE-9 bass impact competes with best planars as well ( 3 planars on my desk currently... )   ..Extension & very low bass are the real territory where planar are unmatched though


----------



## rogerthatmand

Is there anybody in here who uses the HD800 mainly for blues and rock (psychedelic, heavy, progressive.. etc) ?


----------



## shabta

rogerthatmand said:


> Is there anybody in here who uses the HD800 mainly for blues and rock (psychedelic, heavy, progressive.. etc) ?


 
 I listen to lots of blues, progressive and psychedelic. Grateful Dead, Allman Bros, Muddy Waters, BB King, Yes, Gentle Giant, King Crimson etc. Sounds totally goooooooood.


----------



## whirlwind

rogerthatmand said:


> Is there anybody in here who uses the HD800 mainly for blues and rock (psychedelic, heavy, progressive.. etc) ?


 
 Yep, and it is awesome...no worries.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I listen to a lot of blues and classic rock


----------



## rogerthatmand

Thank you very very much. I just ordered my HD800, can't wait to get it!
 For now I have the O2+ODAC which I don't really like. But no worries, the Bottlehead Crack+Speedball is on its way too


----------



## whirlwind

rogerthatmand said:


> Thank you very very much. I just ordered my HD800, can't wait to get it!
> For now I have the O2+ODAC which I don't really like. But no worries, the Bottlehead Crack+Speedball is on its way too


 
 Congrats.....it is a wonderful set of cans.


----------



## Audio-Omega

Where is the best place to buy earpads and headband padding ?


----------



## Dadracer

Sennheiser Australia? or there are these folks who seem to be UK based. http://headphonespares.sennheiser.co.uk/hifi-tv-headphones/hd-800


----------



## mrmarano

audio-omega said:


> Where is the best place to buy earpads and headband padding ?


 
  
 Don't know about worldwide, but Sennheiser's Service and Support web site offers the best prices in the USA.
  
 You can find them under Headphone Spares, or equivalent.


----------



## rawrster

I've called them a few times to buy the headband and the pads and they were cheaper than the online retailers. I guess it makes sense since it takes out the middle man.


----------



## Audio-Omega

They are not cheap !


----------



## Dadracer

I guess it depends on whether you want the real ones or some generically similar copies. If its cheap you want then maybe there is something on E bay or Amazon? I got some shorter cables for my HD700s so I can use them when travelling. They have good quality connectors at each end and a screw on 3.5mm plug adaptor to 6.3mm. They sound near as I can tell identical to the original cables and only cost £25. I also got one of those Omega style wooden headphone stands for £20 via Amazon. So there are bargains to be had if you do some surfing, and as you are in Australia I'm thinking you'll already be good at that...........


----------



## pearljam50000

I found that the music genre doesn't matter with the HD800.
Only the recording quality.
So the myth that the HD800 sounds good only with Classical and Jazz, is untrue.


rogerthatmand said:


> Is there anybody in here who uses the HD800 mainly for blues and rock (psychedelic, heavy, progressive.. etc) ?


----------



## rawrster

I don't think any ebay version of them exists. It's not just the foam but some plastic thing that snaps onto the headphone.


----------



## TT600R

pearljam50000 said:


> I found that the music genre doesn't matter with the HD800.
> Only the recording quality.
> So the myth that the HD800 sounds good only with Classical and Jazz, is untrue.


 
 +1!


----------



## Dobrescu George

pearljam50000 said:


> I found that the music genre doesn't matter with the HD800.
> Only the recording quality.
> So the myth that the HD800 sounds good only with Classical and Jazz, is untrue.


 
 Totally!
  
 I think that Hd800 is the best headphone for virtually every genere.
  
 I had tested it in depth with electronic generes too, and found that the experience is very good. I loved how Hd800 reproduces electronic effects and music in general. With metal music, it is a killer in every way, very nice sound.


----------



## rogerthatmand

And what do you guys consider a good recording quality?
 All of my music is based on FLAC, but not everything is 24bit.
 Some of my FLAC files are in the range of 800kbps-1000kbps. So the HD800 will sound bad with them?


----------



## henkie196

I think more important than the bitrate is the quality of the master. If they crank up the loudness for the master up to the clipping point, no amount of bits is going to make it sound better. And the HD800 will let you hear the limit of the mastering very clearly. Look for better masters, not higher bitrates, if you want better sound.


----------



## Dobrescu George

rogerthatmand said:


> And what do you guys consider a good recording quality?
> All of my music is based on FLAC, but not everything is 24bit.
> Some of my FLAC files are in the range of 800kbps-1000kbps. So the HD800 will sound bad with them?


 
 Good recording quality means how it was recorded. You do not need 24 bit and DSD files to enjoy Hd800. Even though HD music could sound better, you will enjoy just as good with your normal FLAC files.
  
 Good recording quality is how the music was actually recorded. Like how good were the instruments, the mastering, the microphones, does the music have artifacts from processing, does it have too much dynamic compression, etc. 
  
 For example,
 Painted in exile - revitalized is a very good song, but not recorded that good;
 metallica - the day that never comes is a song that is not good recorded, it is overprocessed
 Haggard - Chapter IV - The Sleeping Child - is a good recorded song
 Dance gavin dance - we own the night is a very good recorded song
 La dispute - starting with 2008 - Somewhere At The Bottom Of The River Between Vega And Altair, every album is recorded very nicely. 
  
 If you want to hear a light band that is recorded and mastered very well, try "the hush sound", or mindless self indulgence, or Bak - sculpture (the progressive band)
  
 These are just examples, to get the ideea of a difference between a good and a bad recording. Try to listen to all the songs in youtube, or on bandcamp, or in lossless, the differences will be much more evident than the differences between a 320 mp3 and a high resolution FLAC.


----------



## uchihaitachi

pearljam50000 said:


> I found that the music genre doesn't matter with the HD800.
> Only the recording quality.
> So the myth that the HD800 sounds good only with Classical and Jazz, is untrue.


 
 I find it incredibly sibilant with well mastered pop music.


----------



## Arnotts

pearljam50000 said:


> I found that the music genre doesn't matter with the HD800.
> Only the recording quality.
> So the myth that the HD800 sounds good only with Classical and Jazz, is untrue.


 
  
 The HD800's are excellent headphones. I agree that they sound "good" with pretty much everything - as you would hope for with any pair of headphones that cost as much as the HD800's do. Classical and/or jazz are definitely its strong points, though. When I'm looking for musical enjoyment from other genres I tend to prefer my other headphones.


uchihaitachi said:


> I find it incredibly sibilant with well mastered pop music.


 
 I pretty much agree. Not only some sibilance (which doesn't really bother me), but their analytical nature does not resonate with me on a musical level like my other headphones. The HD800's have their uses for me, but musical enjoyment is not usually their strong suit.


----------



## rogerthatmand

dobrescu george said:


> Good recording quality means how it was recorded. You do not need 24 bit and DSD files to enjoy Hd800. Even though HD music could sound better, you will enjoy just as good with your normal FLAC files.
> 
> Good recording quality is how the music was actually recorded. Like how good were the instruments, the mastering, the microphones, does the music have artifacts from processing, does it have too much dynamic compression, etc.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, as a huge Led Zeppelin fan, I can say that I'm in trouble since their recording quality are terrible


----------



## Failed Engineer

I listen to my HD800 in stock form and lots of poorly recorded modern music, and don't find them offensive or sterile/boring.  I think source plays a large role in feeling that way about the HD800s, moreso than amplification.
  
 Previous DACs I had lead me to selling them twice.  With my current one, I'm in love with everything I play on my HD800.  I like them better than my SR-009s.


----------



## wahsmoh

failed engineer said:


> I listen to my HD800 in stock form and lots of poorly recorded modern music, and don't find them offensive or sterile/boring.  I think source plays a large role in feeling that way about the HD800s, moreso than amplification.
> 
> Previous DACs I had lead me to selling them twice.  With my current one, I'm in love with everything I play on my HD800.  I like them better than my SR-009s.


 
 DAC is THE most important. I can't say it any further.. if you are getting good amplification for your headphones then an amplifier shouldn't be your means to color your sound.
  
 Going from Schiit Bifrost Uber to Theta Digital DS Pro Progeny is night and day.
  
 I mean the soundstage difference is ridiculous, the Theta extends "outside" of the earcups and the Bifrost never manages to break this plane. I think this has to do with the R-2R implementation and digital filter chip. Delta-sigma is just too digital sounding for me unless implemented really well and expensive. 
  
 People will realize more than not, that this is not their headphones fault. It is their sources fault. I do think the Anax 2.0 HD800 is tamer than the stock HD800. The stock HD800 usually sounds bad when paired with a source that is bright and not like Yggy or a Lampizator type DAC that is natural and warm.


----------



## Dobrescu George

failed engineer said:


> I listen to my HD800 in stock form and lots of poorly recorded modern music, and don't find them offensive or sterile/boring.  I think source plays a large role in feeling that way about the HD800s, moreso than amplification.
> 
> Previous DACs I had lead me to selling them twice.  With my current one, I'm in love with everything I play on my HD800.  I like them better than my SR-009s.


 
 Amplification tends to make a lot of a difference for HD800. If music comes out bad, the AMP might be coloring the sound too much


wahsmoh said:


> DAC is THE most important. I can't say it any further.. if you are getting good amplification for your headphones then an amplifier shouldn't be your means to color your sound.
> 
> Going from Schiit Bifrost Uber to Theta Digital DS Pro Progeny is night and day.
> 
> ...


 
 I had tested many DACs and had found that Fiio x5 used as a DAC was a killer deal to power hd800 on a budget.


----------



## ubs28

uchihaitachi said:


> I find it incredibly sibilant with well mastered pop music.


 

 Pop music isn't well mastered imo.


----------



## wahsmoh

failed engineer said:


> I listen to my HD800 in stock form and lots of poorly recorded modern music, and don't find them offensive or sterile/boring.  I think source plays a large role in feeling that way about the HD800s, moreso than amplification.
> 
> Previous DACs I had lead me to selling them twice.  With my current one, I'm in love with everything I play on my HD800.  I like them better than my SR-009s.


 
 BTW your Proceed PDP2 is an old school multi-bit DAC. Very sought after are the PDP2 and more so the PDP3


----------



## thecrow

dobrescu george said:


> Amplification tends to make a lot of a difference for HD800. If music comes out bad, the AMP might be coloring the sound too much
> I had tested many DACs and had found that Fiio x5 used as a DAC was a killer deal to power hd800 on a budget.



My experience with my gear was that the dac in the fiio x5 was showing to be quite similar to the dac in the x5 Eg when using the O2 amp


----------



## heart banger-97

arnotts said:


> The HD800's are excellent headphones. I agree that they sound "good" with pretty much everything - as you would hope for with any pair of headphones that cost as much as the HD800's do. Classical and/or jazz are definitely its strong points, though. When I'm looking for musical enjoyment from other genres I tend to prefer my other headphones.
> I pretty much agree. Not only some sibilance (which doesn't really bother me), but their analytical nature does not resonate with me on a musical level like my other headphones. The HD800's have their uses for me, but musical enjoyment is not usually their strong suit.



What headphone do you use in that time?


----------



## Failed Engineer

wahsmoh said:


> BTW your Proceed PDP2 is an old school multi-bit DAC. Very sought after are the PDP2 and more so the PDP3


 
  
 I got the PDP2 for a relative song from a guy that replaced all the caps and made a couple of other logical upgrades.  This thing just annihilated in every aspect the Metrum Hex I had at the time I bought it.  I bought the Hex after auditioning several other sub $5k DACs and still think it's a good DAC.  I'm still looking for a PDP3 but haven't been able to find one in the year or so I've been prowling.  I'm buying up all reasonably priced PDP2s I can find over the web.  The stock PDP2s I have sound good but not nearly as good as the one that has been refreshed.
  
 The vintage R2R craze hasn't spread to the old Proceed line it seems.  They are still affordable when I come across them.


----------



## Taowolf51

mrmarano said:


> Don't know about worldwide, but Sennheiser's Service and Support web site offers the best prices in the USA.
> 
> You can find them under Headphone Spares, or equivalent.


 
  
 Wow, they're much cheaper from Sennheiser. You can get the earpads and headband for not much more than you would pay for just the earpads from an e-shop. I might grab both sooner rather than later now. 
  
 By the way, does anyone know what the HD800 case is? I've never heard about it until now.


----------



## mrmarano

taowolf51 said:


> Wow, they're much cheaper from Sennheiser. You can get the earpads and headband for not much more than you would pay for just the earpads from an e-shop. I might grab both sooner rather than later now.
> 
> By the way, does anyone know what the HD800 case is? I've never heard about it until now.




Just ordered my backups. 

The "display box" is simply the box they ship in. Don't think Sennheiser sells it directly.

Glad I bought my pair from Crutchfield. Box was damaged in shipping; Crutchfield replaced it no questions.


----------



## Taowolf51

mrmarano said:


> Just ordered my backups.
> 
> The "display box" is simply the box they ship in. Don't think Sennheiser sells it directly.
> 
> Glad I bought my pair from Crutchfield. Box was damaged in shipping; Crutchfield replaced it no questions.


 
  
 I was referring to the "case" here:
 http://en-us.sennheiser.com/service-support-part-finder
  
 But you're right, it's probably the box it comes in. I thought it was some kind of nice pelican case type thing because I couldn't imagine someone trying to sell what is effectively a paper box for $160, but is Sennheiser, so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 Speaking of which, does anyone have any recommendations for a specific pelican case for the HD800?


----------



## koiloco

dobrescu george said:


> Amplification tends to make a lot of a difference for HD800. If music comes out bad, the AMP might be coloring the sound too much
> I had tested many DACs and had found that *Fiio x5 used as a DAC was a killer deal to power hd800 on a budget. *


 
 +100.  I had a kick out of this when I had my X5 still.  The built in DAC is ridiculously good for the price.


----------



## zilch0md

koiloco said:


> +100.  I had a kick out of this when I had my X5 still.  The built in DAC is ridiculously good for the price.




Yes!

*The FiiO X5's PCM1792A DAC is my favorite oversampling DAC.* 

I prefer it to the OPPO HA-1's ESS9018 and the proprietary DACs in my CEntrance DACMini CX and DACport LX. 

The only DAC I have that beats the X5's DAC is my NOS Metrum Acoustics Octave MKII.




*FiiO X5 Line Out > 15VDC-powered Meier Audio Stepdance > HD800*
(At a B&B in Charleston, SC)




Spoiler: Warning: OPPO PM-1 inside!







Mike


----------



## rogerthatmand

From what I understand, the Schiit Modi 2 is probably the best VFM DAC out there. And I'm seriously considering getting it.
 Do you guys have any other DAC recommendations? Lets say the budget is 300$ max..


----------



## kamalz

dobrescu george said:


> You do not need 24 bit and DSD files to enjoy Hd800. Even though HD music could sound better, you will enjoy just as good with your normal FLAC files.


 
  +1
  Even with 16 bit , i can her how the singer articulate her words to express her feeling.
  Good electricity really helps and HD800 will tell you that


----------



## whirlwind

henkie196 said:


> I think more important than the bitrate is the quality of the master. If they crank up the loudness for the master up to the clipping point, no amount of bits is going to make it sound better. And the HD800 will let you hear the limit of the mastering very clearly. Look for better masters, not higher bitrates, if you want better sound.


 
 +1


----------



## whirlwind

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote: 





rogerthatmand said:


> dobrescu george said:
> 
> 
> > Good recording quality means how it was recorded. You do not need 24 bit and DSD files to enjoy Hd800. Even though HD music could sound better, you will enjoy just as good with your normal FLAC files.
> ...








> Well, as a huge Led Zeppelin fan, I can say that I'm in trouble since their recording quality are terrible


 
 The latest remasters , while not perfect, are still as good as I have heard Led Zep and they are very,enjoyable on the HD800


----------



## MickeyVee

It really depends on the rest of your chain.  With the McIntosh or Naim (see my sig), there is no sibilance.  Just great dynamics with great extension on the top and bottom and mids to die for.
 I keep following this thread but now rarely post as I'm at my end game.  The HD800 sounds like the HD800 pretty much out of anything but when you get close to TOTL, watch out! It will blow your mind... and continue to do so... Underpowered, it can be sibilant.  It's not just the specs but overall amplifier design.  I'd run the McIntosh or Naim at 0.5mw-.5mW over a mass market 1W amp anyday.   Hard to explain.
 Happy listening! M
  
 Quote:


uchihaitachi said:


> I find it incredibly sibilant with well mastered pop music.


----------



## rogerthatmand

I hope it's OK I'm bringing up the Audeze LCD-2 here, but I'm really curious:
 What are the reasons you guys chose the HD800 vs. the LCD-2.
  
 The thing is, I was looking a lot at these forums and probably 80% of the people out here seem to prefer the LCD-2, even there's a quote: "The HD800's are good headphones, but LCD-2 is the real life".
 And honestly? I really don't understand why. 
 Yesterday I spent more than a hour listening to the LCD-2 and I drove quite a bit to finally understand what all the hype is about.
 Well.... They sound amazing, no doubt. But in their own kinda way.. even worse way.. the soundstage is completely off comparing to the HD800, and the comfort? There's no way I would be able to listen to those headphones for more than a hour.
 There's no doubt the treble is way different than the HD800, and most of the time is more enjoyable to listen to compared to the HD800. But isn't it something an equalizer can quickly solve?
  
 Again, sorry if it's not ok bringing this up, but I really am curious to hear about it from you.


----------



## Moonhead

I have not listen to LCD2, but i have audtioned LCD3 and IMHO I dont believe that Audeze deserves to be in the same class as HD800, as they a miles ahead of the planers in sound, comfort, more reliable, Easier to drive and even somewhat cheaper.

You will get use to the super revealing sennheiser treble, especially if you don't max out the volume, they sound really good at lower volume too, audeze not so much!!


----------



## rogerthatmand

The LCD-3 is definitely not cheaper than the HD800!


----------



## yates7592

I LCD-- vs HD800, it's down to personal taste as ever and what sound signature you prefer. I A/B'ed LCD-3F and HD800 for quite a few hours in a shop on the same source, DAC and amp and ended up buying HD800. The LCD to my ears lacked width and depth in soundstage, had muddy sound and a bloated bass, but other than that I loved it!


----------



## henkie196

I've not heard the LCD-2, but I suspect it's mostly about preference. Many people find the warmer and somewhat laid back sound signature more preferable, and those people tend to then prefer an LCD-2 over an HD800. But if this is not your preference, you may feel differently about it (which is why it's always risky to listen too much to general internet opinion).


----------



## shabta

The LCD2s don't image or resolve even remotely as well as the HD800 and they are brutally uncomfortable. The treble extension is disappointing too. The LCD 3s and X close the gap in some areas and are definitely in the same league as the HD800 but still amazingly uncomfortable. The bass extension on those headphones trumps the HD800, plus there is the slam factor. But imaging, transient decay, width of the soundstage all come up short compared to the HD800. Although I prefer the sound of the HD800s, I can understand how some might prefer the sound of the newest LCD3s or X, but to me the comfort issue is a no-go. I would never be able to have them on my head for more than a 1/2 hour.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Basically all LCDs should be halfed in price.


----------



## Sorrodje

fegefeuer said:


> Basically all LCDs should be halfed in price.




What would be ballzy and funny is to repeat that in the audeze threads.


----------



## Moonhead

fegefeuer said:


> Basically all LCDs should be halfed in price.




+1

Highly agreed!


----------



## uchihaitachi

mickeyvee said:


>


 
 I have only ever used the Benchmark series to drive my headphones. They are objectively the best DACs and amplifiers on the market, and normally used for studio use as they are essentially free of distortion. Even at significantly lower price points, you will get audibly transparent sound out anyways.
  
 Still I have found the HD800 to be selective with genres controlling for the quality of the mastering.


----------



## yates7592

I actually prefer the bass of HD800 to LCD3.


----------



## uchihaitachi

rogerthatmand said:


> I hope it's OK I'm bringing up the Audeze LCD-2 here, but I'm really curious:
> What are the reasons you guys chose the HD800 vs. the LCD-2.
> 
> The thing is, I was looking a lot at these forums and probably 80% of the people out here seem to prefer the LCD-2, even there's a quote: "The HD800's are good headphones, but LCD-2 is the real life".
> ...


 
 I think 'musical sounding' headphones, normally those with lower frequency boosts and (lush or warm mids from other frequency alterations) sound fun and great at first especially with specific genres, but for me they have always lost their appeal in the long run. I find myself coming back to speakers/headphones/earphones that present the music as accurately as possible. 
  
 I find the Audeze LCD2 akin to a big fat juicy steak. Once in a while, you can't really ask for more. But everyday... I can't.......


----------



## preproman

rogerthatmand said:


> I hope it's OK I'm bringing up the Audeze LCD-2 here, but I'm really curious:
> What are the reasons you guys chose the HD800 vs. the LCD-2.
> 
> The thing is, I was looking a lot at these forums and probably 80% of the people out here seem to prefer the LCD-2, even there's a quote: "The HD800's are good headphones, but LCD-2 is the real life".
> ...


 
  
 Can't speak up for the LCD-2.2,  I hated them.  Didn't really like the LCD-3Cs either.  But you ask this same question in the new LCD-3 or the LCD-X threads you will get opposite responses.
  
 It all depends on what thread you ask the question.


----------



## Sorrodje

uchihaitachi said:


> I think 'musical sounding' headphones, normally those with lower frequency boosts and (lush or warm mids from other frequency alterations) sound fun and great at first especially with specific genres, but for me they have always lost their appeal in the long run. I find myself coming back to speakers/headphones/earphones that present the music as accurately as possible.
> 
> I find the Audeze LCD2 akin to a big fat juicy steak. Once in a while, you can't really ask for more. But everyday... I can't.......


 
  
 Yes. That's my feeling as well. Even more when I consider how good can be a well paired HD650 ...


----------



## rogerthatmand

Well, thank you all! I'm glad I'm not alone with my opinion.
 I really liked the LCD-2, I thought they were really.... "powerful"? But it can't be compared to the HD800. I haven't found any headphones who were so unique and "live" like the HD800


----------



## Sorrodje

rogerthatmand said:


> I haven't found any headphones who were so unique and "live" like the HD800


 
  
 That's a personal opinion. Preproman who posted above posted numerous post where he said how much the HD800 is soulless, boring and whatever. Different listeners, different tastes, different opinions.


----------



## goobicii

I hate HD800,the earlier version had harsh treble peak,the new one have lowered the treble but it got low mid/high bass hump,thats ever worse than before.
  
 what I hate most about the HD800 is extreme lack of low sub bass,I listen to music with very low bass,30-40hz,you can tell me how tight and quality it is,it isnt,thats just illusion becose its severly rolled off,becose of that it sound completly joyless,it have no testicles it completly misses the most important thing,the low fundamental notes.... it have what I woud call one note bass becose it plays the one high note and then it disapears
  
 yes the stereo width is widest ever but thats about it,it have worst FR I ever heard in 1000+ headphone,ppl say strong side is its precision,but how precise it is in the end after you put colored warm sounding tube amp or even dac with it to fix that ugly,sterile,castrated sound it have.SS amped audeze or hifiman butt grape tube amped HD800 in precision,dynamics,distortion and FR flatness
  
  
 in  that pricerange I would go modded HE-6 or used Audeze LCD-x


----------



## Sorrodje

@goobicii :
  
 Are you the author of that :
  
 
  
  
 If the answer is Yes, I confirm the HD800 is not the best tool to enjoy your music at best.


----------



## negura

sorrodje said:


> @goobicii :
> 
> Are you the author of that :
> 
> If the answer is Yes, I confirm the HD800 is not the best tool to enjoy your music at best.


 
  
 I hope you did not miss this:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3JV6q4tY0M


----------



## Sorrodje

Sooo many thanks Negura. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I definitely think the HE1000 would do the trick for that music. Engaging yet resolving and relaxed headphone should make it sound stellar... maybe even more : Should I say epic ?


----------



## goobicii

negura said:


> I hope you did not miss this:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3JV6q4tY0M


 
  
 haha didnt heard that one before,I am dying


----------



## rogerthatmand

You HATE the HD800? I can understand (no.. I can't really actually) if you prefer different kind of headphones sound.. but how can a human being HATE the HD800?


----------



## TMRaven

There is no severe lack of low bass with the HD800.  Even planars with phenomenal bass extension like the LCD series or HE-560 subjectively don't have that much more energy below 50hz compared to the HD800, because the distortion of their low bass is essentially none, and their bass is completely linear.
  
 An EQ of about 3db or so below 50hz brings it up to their levels.


----------



## longbowbbs

I am currently using the ALO Studio Six and the Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 DSDse with the HD800's. It is the most extraordinary bass I have heard from the 800's. Exceptional depth and power. Fun times in the man cave!


----------



## alvin sawdust

goobicii said:


> I hate HD800,the earlier version had harsh treble peak,the new one have lowered the treble but it got low mid/high bass hump,thats ever worse than before.
> 
> what I hate most about the HD800 is extreme lack of low sub bass,I listen to music with very low bass,30-40hz,you can tell me how tight and quality it is,it isnt,thats just illusion becose its severly rolled off,becose of that it sound completly joyless,it have no testicles it completly misses the most important thing,the low fundamental notes.... it have what I woud call one note bass becose it plays the one high note and then it disapears
> 
> ...


 
 Is it becose you is a troll?


----------



## inseconds99

I am holding out on a new Dac and Amp on my HD800 as there are tons of new products coming out this month. Here is what I am looking at for my HD800's as I decided today that I want to stick with a Solid State AMP. Will update the post once I decide and I will post a review of whatever I choose and how they are with the HD800's.
  
 1. NFB-3AMP + ODAC
 2 .M-Stage HPA-3U
 3. The Element JDSLabs


----------



## Taowolf51

rogerthatmand said:


> I hope it's OK I'm bringing up the Audeze LCD-2 here, but I'm really curious:
> What are the reasons you guys chose the HD800 vs. the LCD-2.
> 
> The thing is, I was looking a lot at these forums and probably 80% of the people out here seem to prefer the LCD-2, even there's a quote: "The HD800's are good headphones, but LCD-2 is the real life".
> ...


 
  
 I've owned both, owned the LCD-2 (made about a month before the fazor redesign and powered by the requisite speaker amp), then sold it and got the HD800.
  
 The LCD-2 does have some things it does better than the HD800, but you really have to cherry pick to find them. For instance, growlie brass instruments are really awesome (Son Lux - Easy is a good example of what I mean), and drums have a more realistic thud. However, when it really comes down to it, the HD800 is on a different level. Soundstage and imaging are much better, detail/microdetail is far better, speed, decay, texture, cohesiveness, realism, etc.
  
 I would even say that for me personally, with my current setup, the HD800 is more forgiving than the LCD-2 despite having far more detail capability. And since I know how people will react to that statement, I'll explain.
 The LCD-2 isn't unforgiving because it's revealing (it's not at all, and the HD800 definitely is), the difference is that the LCD-2 can be feast or famine when it comes to dynamics. When I owned them, I noticed that while some music sounded fun, dynamic and snappy, other music sounded very dull and flat from a dynamics perspective. The HD800, with the nature of its rising transient and decay almost exaggerates the texture, dynamics, and detail of a song, which makes just about anything sound dynamic and fun on it, while the LCD-2 is a smoother headphone that is almost the opposite, it will reduce texture, especially microtexture. I'm very texture and dynamics dependent, those elements are very important to me. However, others may focus more on things like compression artifacting, where the LCD-2's significantly reduced treble would be a benefit.
  
 I also wasn't a fan of the recessed treble on the LCD-2. It was really noticeable to me and prevented the headphone from sounding cohesive. However, a dark signature seems to be very popular these days, which is evident in the popularity of some headphones (most notably many BA IEM's) that have pretty much no treble, and reach insane levels like -50db in the upper treble. Compared to headphones like that, the LCD-2 is mildly dark. However, it's still too dark for my tastes, especially for a $1000+ headphone.
 A combination of the recessed treble and the less textured/dynamic nature of the headphones led me to turn the volume up on the LCD-2's more and more to try to eek out some detail and texture in them. Unfortunately, I noticed this was damaging my hearing, which was another reason I ended up selling them. I don't need to crank the volume on the HD800's at all to enjoy them. They sound great at low volumes and scale with volume very well.
  
 The comfort was also a major *major* turn off. The earpads were comfy and soft, which was very nice, but the headband was the opposite. Hard with almost no padding, bumpy with minimal contact on the head leading to major hot spots. All this on a headphone that's famous for being heavy, I really don't understand the thought behind the design of the LCD-2's. When you buy a $1000+ headphone, it should excel in more than just sound. The HD800 is an excellent example of this. Rigid but light materials that damp resonance (leona plastic with some metal reinforcement) paired with a headband and earpads that make excellent contact with the head with no hot spots (the entire HD800 headband makes contact with my head, and maybe 20% of the LCD-2 headband makes contact with my head). The HD800 is also more secure on the head while having significantly less clamp. The HD800 is a headphone that really feels like its chassis went through a team of designers and engineers, while the LCD-2 feels more like a high grade DIY headphone.
 Regardless of how a headphone sounds, you're not going to enjoy it when it's literally giving you a headache, which in my experience is exactly what happened when I wore the LCD-2 for any reasonable period of time.
  
 When it really comes down to it, most highly regarded $1000+ headphones are very very good sounding, and very very technically capable. What's far more important in that price bracket is how well a headphone matches your FR and technicality preferences, how comfortable it is, and the form factor. And it may seem that I'm hating on the LCD-2 and Audeze a lot, but I'm still a big fan of both. However, I do still believe the LCD-2 is a headphone with a lot more caveats than I would like to see in a headphone of its price class, and I'm very confident Audeze can fix these problems without impacting sound.


----------



## rawrster

That's pretty much in line with my thoughts of the LCD2. I didn't find them tonally pleasing and the level of detail was pretty bad for this price range. One thing I'm not really a fan of is all the different versions of the headphones on the Audeze line. I can't really keep which what is what with the LCD-2.
  
 Of course that isn't to say the HD800 is perfect but there are much less the HD800 does wrong than the LCD-2. I sold both of them so neither of them is the one for me  I'm hoping for a lighter version of the HE-6.


----------



## RUMAY408

With the right amp the bass extension of the HD800 matched my LCD-3F with the Schiit Yggdrasil DAC>Woo Audio WA5 (Sophia Royal Princess tubes) at a recent meet seriously detailed on a level I can only say was jaw dropping
  
 I have no doubt that high end tube amps as outlined above by Longbowbbs (ALO Studio Six) will reach a similar level thus the beauty of the HD800 it scales like no other HP I have heard


----------



## paulchiu

With the right amp is right. I vow for any good 300B amp.  You do not even need a $1000+ output tubes to make the HD800 play Bach organs to the depths of your gut.  Any quality Russian tubes will do.


----------



## longbowbbs

rumay408 said:


> With the right amp the bass extension of the HD800 matched my LCD-3F with the Schiit Yggdrasil DAC>Woo Audio WA5 (Sophia Royal Princess tubes) at a recent meet seriously detailed on a level I can only say was jaw dropping
> 
> I have no doubt that high end tube amps as outlined above by Longbowbbs (ALO Studio Six) will reach a similar level thus the beauty of the HD800 it scales like no other HP I have heard


 
 That is the thing most HD800 naysayers have not experienced, a truly high end chain.  The chain is everything with the 800's. They will give you what you feed them.


----------



## Rayzilla

I have a small tube amp (Line Magnetic Mini 218IA). Is there any chance you can give me some advice on what "affordable" tubes I can get (and a reliable supplier) to improve the sound compared to the stock tubes that came with the amp? Please keep in mind that I am a noob when it comes to tube rolling and related things.  Thanks for any suggestions.
  
 And I also have the Line Magnetic DAC (LM 502CA) too, which has tube option. I understand that I could change the tubes in it as well.
  
 Here are some links to the amp.
 http://www.toneimports.com/lmaudio/mini218.html
 http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=amp&m=179560
 https://pitchperfectaudio.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/abcdefghijk-lm-n-oh-yeah/
  
  
 Thanks!
  
 (edit: I just remembered I got some good advice from Blackmore and a couple of other members here. Apologies. Finally have some time to look into the options.)


----------



## koiloco

longbowbbs said:


> That is the thing most HD800 naysayers have not experienced, a truly high end chain.  The chain is everything with the 800's. They will give you what you feed them.


 
 You don't even need truly high end.  A well matched mid-high chain is plenty.  Personally, I am very happy with my current setup.  I have listened to the majority of the high end tube amps with HD800 and just can't justify the minute difference vs. the $ disparity.  I am building a HE-6 setup instead.


----------



## koiloco

goobicii said:


> I hate HD800,the earlier version had harsh treble peak,the new one have lowered the treble but it got low mid/high bass hump,thats ever worse than before.
> 
> what I hate most about the HD800 is extreme lack of low sub bass,I listen to music with very low bass,30-40hz,you can tell me how tight and quality it is,it isnt,thats just illusion becose its severly rolled off,becose of that it sound completly joyless,it have no testicles it completly misses the most important thing,the low fundamental notes.... it have what I woud call one note bass becose it plays the one high note and then it disapears
> 
> ...


 
 Sir!  You have much to learn, especially about the HD800.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 May I suggest you buy a pair of Beats?  They might fit the sound signature you seem to be after.


----------



## paulchiu

This is mostly true.  I listened with Nagra HD DAC as amp and as wire control, the HD800 was sparkling.  But I did not think it was not sensational going to the Hugo or recently with the Sony ZX2.
  
 With an iPhone 6 plus, no.
 You do need clean power to drive the HD800.


----------



## newtoears

koiloco said:


> You don't even need truly high end.  A well matched mid-high chain is plenty.  Personally, I am very happy with my current setup.  I have listened to the majority of the high end tube amps with HD800 and just can't justify the minute difference vs. the $ disparity.  I am building a HE-6 setup instead.




And I'm happy just running them out of my Fiio X3  They sound fantastic just like that. I strain to hear the difference with more expensive amps anyway although maybe I have leaden ears instead of golden ones


----------



## Dobrescu George

newtoears said:


> And I'm happy just running them out of my Fiio X3
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 X3 is quite strong by itself, this might be why you are fine with this setup.
  
 You might want to add a cheap amp, like Fiio e12 or at least test it, to see if you feel that more power is needed. 
  
 If I would have to guess, do you listen at lower volumes, and not to complicated music, like metal?


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > That is the thing most HD800 naysayers have not experienced, a truly high end chain.  The chain is everything with the 800's. They will give you what you feed them.
> ...


 
 When I owned he Decware CSP2+ and Taboo MK III the HD800's were very happy. They are certainly affordable and very effective.


----------



## jhljhl

longbowbbs said:


> When I owned he Decware CSP2+ and Taboo MK III the HD800's were very happy. They are certainly affordable and very effective.


 

 I have this Decware combination and it is remarkable - use a mullard gz32 in the pre and 596 in the Taboo- and there is a remarkable midrange in the HD800 and strong bass response.  Even using the preamp with the WA22 brings a remarkable dynamic.


----------



## hipnick

So do you guys think Hugo pairs well with the HD800? I've read on another thread that it was too harsh and tiring.


----------



## rogerthatmand

Do you guys use equalizer to make the treble soft and smoother?
 I ordered the Crack + Speedball, but I can't imagine it will do THAT much of a difference and smooth the treble for me. Unfortunately, I believe equalizer is the only solution..


----------



## TMRaven

Some of the 6khz peak on the HD800 is the result of internal resonance within the cup.  The best way to cure that is through damping modifications.  After that, EQ is best bet.


----------



## JamieMcC

rogerthatmand said:


> Do you guys use equalizer to make the treble soft and smoother?
> I ordered the Crack + Speedball, but I can't imagine it will do THAT much of a difference and smooth the treble for me. Unfortunately, I believe equalizer is the only solution..


 

 You can add some Teflon bypass's to your signal output capacitors. Some inexpensive Russian Teflons  for around $10 they can really help refine the treble. Plenty of info on the Bottlehead forum


----------



## Taowolf51

rogerthatmand said:


> Do you guys use equalizer to make the treble soft and smoother?
> I ordered the Crack + Speedball, but I can't imagine it will do THAT much of a difference and smooth the treble for me. Unfortunately, I believe equalizer is the only solution..


 
  
 I use an EQ to great effect, though you need to make sure you're using a good EQ that gives you a lot of flexibility (parametric for example).
  
 Though, I do agree with Raven, the best thing to do is damp resonances then EQ later. I've been waiting for Anax 3.0 before doing it myself, but it's taking so long that I'll probably just do the latest version soon.


----------



## koiloco

rogerthatmand said:


> Do you guys use equalizer to make the treble soft and smoother?
> I ordered the Crack + Speedball, but I can't imagine it will do THAT much of a difference and smooth the treble for me. Unfortunately, I believe equalizer is the only solution..


 
 Have you listened to the HD800 driven by a Crack?  or this is your just impression from reading/hearing people complaining about this particular issue with the HD800?
 Personally, with my set up, I rarely have to encounter/worry about this problem.  It might be just my ears/preference too.


----------



## skeptic

rogerthatmand said:


> Do you guys use equalizer to make the treble soft and smoother?
> I ordered the Crack + Speedball, but I can't imagine it will do THAT much of a difference and smooth the treble for me. Unfortunately, I believe equalizer is the only solution..


 
  
 Did you try out the anax mod?  http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod  Damping reflections in the cups for $10 in materials and an hour's worth of effort is a really easy and effective way to smooth out the treble response and, arguably, to improve imaging.


----------



## rogerthatmand

koiloco said:


> Have you listened to the HD800 driven by a Crack?  or this is your just impression from reading/hearing people complaining about this particular issue with the HD800?
> Personally, with my set up, I rarely have to encounter/worry about this problem.  It might be just my ears/preference too.


 
  
 No, I haven't. 
 As for now, I'm pairing my HD800 with my O2+ODAC. I assume the Crack will make a difference at the treble section, I'm just not sure and I find it hard to believe it will make that much of a difference for me.
  
  


skeptic said:


> Did you try out the anax mod?  http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod  Damping reflections in the cups for $10 in materials and an hour's worth of effort is a really easy and effective way to smooth out the treble response and, arguably, to improve imaging.


 
  
 Do, I didn't. And honestly, I'm really trying to avoid messing around with my 1500$ headphones, at least for now. I got the HD800 just two days ago.


----------



## uchihaitachi

rogerthatmand said:


> No, I haven't.
> As for now, I'm pairing my HD800 with my O2+ODAC. I assume the Crack will make a difference at the treble section, I'm just not sure and I find it hard to believe it will make that much of a difference for me.


 
 Just use EQ, the ODAC+O2 is fully transparent, no need to try other random combos and hope to 'cure the treble', it's a futile effort imo.


----------



## Sorrodje

http://www.head-fi.org/t/767883/official-hifiman-he1000-impressions-thread/540#post_11682842  For those who are interested about HE1000 impressions from a HD800 owner.  
  
 In french : http://www.tellementnomade.org/feedback-hifiman-he-1000-beta/


----------



## Moonhead

Thanks Sorrodje

Very information review that somehow reminds of the great lullaby headphone Stax 007, which doesn't smack you in the face with details like He6 & HD800 does. 

Seems like HD800 still are the superior value headphone.


----------



## alvin sawdust

sorrodje said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/767883/official-hifiman-he1000-impressions-thread/540#post_11682842  For those who are interested about HE1000 impressions from a HD800 owner.
> 
> In french : http://www.tellementnomade.org/feedback-hifiman-he-1000-beta/


 
 Good review, informative and balanced, thanks for taking the time.


----------



## pearljam50000

moonhead said:


> Thanks Sorrodje
> 
> Very information review that somehow reminds of the great lullaby headphone Stax 007, which doesn't smack you in the face with details like He6 & HD800 does.
> 
> Seems like HD800 still are the superior value headphone.


 
 For half the price of the HE1000, the HD800 are a bargain


----------



## alvin sawdust

pearljam50000 said:


> For half the price of the HE1000, the HD800 are a bargain


 
 I am sure that in the UK the HD800 will be around a third of the HE1000.


----------



## skeptic

rogerthatmand said:


> No, I haven't.
> As for now, I'm pairing my HD800 with my O2+ODAC. I assume the Crack will make a difference at the treble section, I'm just not sure and I find it hard to believe it will make that much of a difference for me.
> 
> [N]o, I didn't. And honestly, I'm really trying to avoid messing around with my 1500$ headphones, at least for now. I got the HD800 just two days ago.


 
  
 The crack will make a significant difference in the overall presentation as compared to your O2, but depending on your specific tubes and ears, it may still present as slightly bright with certain material.  Or maybe not.  I'll be curious to see what you think once your crack is up and running.
  
 I can totally appreciate the hesitation to "mod" a premium phone like the hd800's,and if you just aren't interested, I'm happy to let the matter lie.  I just want to make sure you understand that this is not along the lines of the invasive modding that people do with fostex t50rp's etc.  It doesn't require opening up the headphones, removing screw or anything like that.  All we are talking about is temporarily pulling out the inner dust covers (no force required, they are just pieces of fabric that sit in the cups and are not adhered), long enough to stick in a thin foam ring, covered in felt, with a trapezoid in the same materials at one edge, and then the dust cover goes back on.  Done.  It is something I advocate every hd800 owner at least consider trying for the fun of it, whether or not they chose to keep it in.  The sonic change is a subtle but measurable reduction in treble reflections that tends to help people with sensitivity to the 6khz(ish) peak in the hd800's FR curve.
  
 Either way, hope you wind up thoroughly enjoying your new phones.


----------



## rogerthatmand

skeptic said:


> The crack will make a significant difference in the overall presentation as compared to your O2, but depending on your specific tubes and ears, it may still present as slightly bright with certain material.  Or maybe not.  I'll be curious to see what you think once your crack is up and running.
> 
> I can totally appreciate the hesitation to "mod" a premium phone like the hd800's,and if you just aren't interested, I'm happy to let the matter lie.  I just want to make sure you understand that this is not along the lines of the invasive modding that people do with fostex t50rp's etc.  It doesn't require opening up the headphones, removing screw or anything like that.  All we are talking about is temporarily pulling out the inner dust covers (no force required, they are just pieces of fabric that sit in the cups and are not adhered), long enough to stick in a thin foam ring, covered in felt, with a trapezoid in the same materials at one edge, and then the dust cover goes back on.  Done.  It is something I advocate every hd800 owner at least consider trying for the fun of it, whether or not they chose to keep it in.  The sonic change is a subtle but measurable reduction in treble reflections that tends to help people with sensitivity to the 6khz(ish) peak in the hd800's FR curve.
> 
> Either way, hope you wind up thoroughly enjoying your new phones.


 
  
 Thank you for your comment!
 I don't really give a hard NO to the mod option. I just don't want to try it right now, 3 days after I got the HD800. Of course I want to try first the Crack + Speedball and see how it goes.
 "Worst case scenario", I'll look into the mod option.
 But honestly? Playing around with the EQ.. just a bit... makes a huge difference and everything seems perfectly fine!


----------



## shabta

rogerthatmand said:


> Thank you for your comment!
> I don't really give a hard NO to the mod option. I just don't want to try it right now, 3 days after I got the HD800. Of course I want to try first the Crack + Speedball and see how it goes.
> "Worst case scenario", I'll look into the mod option.
> But honestly? Playing around with the EQ.. just a bit... makes a huge difference and everything seems perfectly fine!


 
 Maybe you should get the frequency response graph from Sennheiser. My pair doesn't have a 6khz peak...


----------



## Taowolf51

skeptic said:


> The crack will make a significant difference in the overall presentation as compared to your O2, but depending on your specific tubes and ears, it may still present as slightly bright with certain material.  Or maybe not.  I'll be curious to see what you think once your crack is up and running.
> 
> I can totally appreciate the hesitation to "mod" a premium phone like the hd800's,and if you just aren't interested, I'm happy to let the matter lie.  I just want to make sure you understand that this is not along the lines of the invasive modding that people do with fostex t50rp's etc.  It doesn't require opening up the headphones, removing screw or anything like that.  All we are talking about is temporarily pulling out the inner dust covers (no force required, they are just pieces of fabric that sit in the cups and are not adhered), long enough to stick in a thin foam ring, covered in felt, with a trapezoid in the same materials at one edge, and then the dust cover goes back on.  Done.  It is something I advocate every hd800 owner at least consider trying for the fun of it, whether or not they chose to keep it in.  The sonic change is a subtle but measurable reduction in treble reflections that tends to help people with sensitivity to the 6khz(ish) peak in the hd800's FR curve.
> 
> Either way, hope you wind up thoroughly enjoying your new phones.


 
  
 How sticky is the adhesive that's on the back of the foam used in the mod? Is there any residue left after if you remove it?


----------



## Sorrodje

moonhead said:


> Thanks Sorrodje
> 
> Very information review that somehow reminds of the great lullaby headphone Stax 007, which doesn't smack you in the face with details like He6 & HD800 does.
> 
> Seems like HD800 still are the superior value headphone.


 
  
 Thanks 
  
 Indeed the HEK reminded me a bit the 007 I briefly listened once. but N3rdling told me I was wrong. Ask him it you want better comparison.


----------



## heart banger-97

Hey guys, I've been listening to hd800 and I'M not impressed. Their clarity wasn't that much noticble for me in comparison of z1000. I used shiit modi/vali as dac/amp. Is there any chance that my setup is the reason that I haven't enjoyed hd800?
I'm somehow an iem person which listen to rock/metal and really enjoy melodic and technical passages of progressive rock /metal.


----------



## Dobrescu George

heart banger-97 said:


> Hey guys, I've been listening to hd800 and I'M not impressed. Their clarity wasn't that much noticble for me in comparison of z1000. I used shiit modi/vali as dac/amp. Is there any chance that my setup is the reason that I haven't enjoyed hd800?
> I'm somehow an iem person which listen to rock/metal and really enjoy melodic and technical passages of progressive rock /metal.


 
 Comparing to Z1000, the signature is extremely different. I mean... different.
  
 What are you hearing, and what were you expecting to hear?
  
 Hd800 is much cleaner, clearer, cymbals are much louder, quiet passages of music are much easier to identify. 
  
 Maybe the music is at fault for being too simple? (Brain drill for example sounded kinda the same over a wide array of headphones)


----------



## paulchiu

heart banger-97 said:


> Hey guys, I've been listening to hd800 and I'M not impressed. Their clarity wasn't that much noticble for me in comparison of z1000. I used shiit modi/vali as dac/amp. Is there any chance that my setup is the reason that I haven't enjoyed hd800?
> I'm somehow an iem person which listen to rock/metal and really enjoy melodic and technical passages of progressive rock /metal.


 
  
 The HD800 needs you to feed it cleaner and stronger signals.  Sure, you can use your iPhone, but it will only excel with the higher end stuff.  Try some Muscial Fidelity in the $200 to $500 range still available online.  It also plays beautifully with the Sony ZX2, with a Pono using balanced cabling and mid to hi end tube amps.
 Once you feed it through better amps, the Sony MDR-Z1000 cannot touch it.


----------



## inseconds99

Looking into purchasing a violectric v100 and am looking for a usb dac to connect to it. It comes with a 24/192 dac but I'm assuming it isn't of the highest quality. I am looking to keep the dac under 500 to connect to the v100 and my hd800. Any recommendations or should I use that internal dac?


----------



## thecrow

inseconds99 said:


> Looking into purchasing a violectric v100 and am looking for a usb dac to connect to it. It comes with a 24/192 dac but I'm assuming it isn't of the highest quality. I am looking to keep the dac under 500 to connect to the v100 and my hd800. Any recommendations or should I use that internal dac?


i bought an irdac from arcam and am loving that (paired with my soloist amp). That sells for about $600 AUD. I picked it up second hand for $400. Very favourable review on what hifi. 

I previously had the Odac and the irdac is quite more open and detailed. (As you'd hope with the price increase)

I did audition the v100 using my irdac but went with the brighter/punchier soloist amp. The v100 seemed to work with the irdac. But I didn't try any other dacs with the v100 to compare.


----------



## hekeli

shabta said:


> Maybe you should get the frequency response graph from Sennheiser. My pair doesn't have a 6khz peak...


 
  
 So your pair has a completely different frame and driver than everyone else? Good for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Pretty sure you would see the humongous peak on any proper measuring rig, funny how people make conclusions from a manufacturer posted 324345 octave smoothed graph made by unknown methods..


----------



## shabta

hekeli said:


> So your pair has a completely different frame and driver than everyone else? Good for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Not all HD800s measure the same. That is pretty easy to see when you look at all the FR graphs that have been posted and you can see not every pair shows an elevated 6khz, but the overwhelming majority of them do. Sorry my post wasn't more specific. So let me try again. 
  
 When you compare the sennheiser provided FR graph for my pair of HD800s to other FR graphs that people have posted, my pair do not show a peak at 6khz unlike many, many others...
  
 Hope this clears up any confusion my previous post may have caused.


----------



## hekeli

shabta said:


> When you compare the *sennheiser provided* FR graph for my pair of HD800s to other FR graphs that people have posted, my pair do not show a peak at 6khz unlike many, many others...


 
  
 Let me try again. The sennheiser graphs are notoriously vague, varying and smoothed. They are *not *a basis for comparison, unlike say some Innerfidelity or Pirate made graphs. The 6khz peak is a physical result of the frame and driver, which has been analyzed to death. Unless you have a mutant phone (highly unlikely as it's maybe one of the most consistently manufactured phone), it's impossible to not have a 6khz bump.


----------



## BobFiggins

heart banger-97 said:


> Hey guys, I've been listening to hd800 and I'M not impressed. Their clarity wasn't that much noticble for me in comparison of z1000. I used shiit modi/vali as dac/amp. Is there any chance that my setup is the reason that I haven't enjoyed hd800?
> I'm somehow an iem person which listen to rock/metal and really enjoy melodic and technical passages of progressive rock /metal.


 
  
 I also have the Vali, and I can assure you that better amps do sound better. Vali gives the HD 800 everything it's got, but when you hear the HD 800 with better amps, you understand there's something missing. 
  
 With that said though, you should still be hearing fine details, and improved imaging/soundstage regardless. Sure it won't be at its full potential, but you should hear a difference.
  
 Another thing to note, like the other guy said, it could be just be the song and how well it was recorded and mastered. To create a comparison for you, I will recommend some well recorded and mastered tracks that really make the HD 800 shine. It may not be a genre you like, but think of it as a demonstration of the HD 800's capabilities.
  
 James Blake - Willhelm Scream
 Massive Attack - Teardrop
 Daft Punk - Get Lucky
 Everything But The Girl - No Difference
  
 I suppose that is the downside to the HD 800, not all music is created equally, and this headphone will let you know it. There are some tracks I find impossible to enjoy with these headphones. Sometimes I just have to play them with my M50 at work to be able to enjoy them. I have a secret love for Nightcore when I'm busy working, but it sounds pretty bad on the HD 800. Many of those songs are not well mastered, or recorded. If I got the HD 800 and jumped right into Nightcore when first getting it, I would also have been unimpressed.


----------



## shabta

hekeli said:


> Let me try again. The sennheiser graphs are notoriously vague, varying and smoothed. They are *not *a basis for comparison, unlike say some Innerfidelity or Pirate made graphs. The 6khz peak is a physical result of the frame and driver, which has been analyzed to death. Unless you have a mutant phone (highly unlikely as it's maybe one of the most consistently manufactured phone), it's impossible to not have a 6khz bump.


 
 I understood you the first time even though you employed a lot of sarcastic nonsense. Your contention is that the manufacturers supplied graph is not a suitable basis for comparison between other pairs of headphones that have been measured by the same manufacturer. Furthermore even though most pairs show a hump at 6khz, the absence of a hump in the senn graph doesn't mean that the particular pair actually has less of a peak than other pairs. Furthermore, Either my headphones are a physically impossible anomaly or I suffer from some kind of lack of intellectual horsepower. 
  
 Just out of curiosity, did you ever listen back to back to a couple of pairs of senns that have very different manufacturer supplied FR graphs?


----------



## hekeli

shabta said:


> Your contention is that the manufacturers supplied graph is not a suitable basis for comparison between other pairs of headphones that have been measured by the same manufacturer.


 
  
 We are not talking about "manufacturers". We are talking about _Sennheiser_, whose graphs are absolute nonsense compared to what "standards" are usually expected here. The measurement process and possible compensation etc is pretty much unknown, looks like anything can be +-5dB there. Not many manufacturers release graphs, but atleast Audeze makes decend ones.
  
 Heres mine as sent from Sennheiser:
  

  
 And here's mine measured by my rig (uncompensated, headphone on my head with Realiser in-ear microphones).
  

  
 Where did the peak come from? Different measurement techniques etc. No matter how you compensate the graphs to look like, the peak is there by design. You can find the trend in pretty much any legit measurement site.


----------



## uchihaitachi

hekeli said:


> We are not talking about "manufacturers". We are talking about _Sennheiser_, whose graphs are absolute nonsense compared to what "standards" are usually expected here. The measurement process and possible compensation etc is pretty much unknown, looks like anything can be +-5dB there. Not many manufacturers release graphs, but atleast Audeze makes decend ones.
> 
> Heres mine as sent from Sennheiser:
> 
> ...


 
 The senn graphs look to be outputs of a stochastic generator... XD


----------



## Sorrodje

Sincerely, I don't think Sennheiser measurements mean something but @hekeli : your measurements are .. strange as well.


----------



## hekeli

sorrodje said:


> @hekeli : your measurements are .. strange as well.


 
  
 Nothing strange there. I'm one of the few that use an actual live head. The measurements are very consistent even when done again after quite some time and look similar to Innerfidelity etc. As always, everyones rigs create different graphs and emphasis and it's extremely hard to create a graph that shows how something really sounds (even if we ignore personal hearing differences). I think solderdude released some quite interesting comparisons on different methods. But for the purposes of this discussion, the peak is not an anomality, even if it might be slightly exaggerated by my method. I might also argue that it's more true than something a cardboard box measurement might show. But people either hear the peak, be bothered by it or they don't. Referring to Sennheiser measurements for "I don't have a peak" is nonsense.


----------



## shabta

I think we are just talking past each other. I already agreed that my original statement wasn't clear. I do think that you can say that comparing one senn FR graph to another can tell you about the headphones relative to one another. And... I have, with some friends, tested this out a bit and very different graphs lead to headphones that could be distinguished from one another in somewhat blind listening tests. YMMV.


----------



## DreamKing

Yeah, all the raw frequency response graphs I've seen show the HD800's 6 kHz bump, like they would show the HE-560's 4 kHz bump.
  


hekeli said:


> Nothing strange there. I'm one of the few that use an actual live head. The measurements are very consistent even when done again after quite some time and look similar to Innerfidelity etc. As always, everyones rigs create different graphs and emphasis and it's extremely hard to create a graph that shows how something really sounds (even if we ignore personal hearing differences). I think solderdude released some quite interesting comparisons on different methods. But for the purposes of this discussion, the peak is not an anomality, even if it might be slightly exaggerated by my method. I might also argue that it's more true than something a cardboard box measurement might show. But people either hear the peak, be bothered by it or they don't. Referring to Sennheiser measurements for "I don't have a peak" is nonsense.


----------



## Sorrodje

@hekeli :  IMO it's more than " Slightly" exaggerated . Compared with Tyll's or Purrin's measurements at least.  It's certainly more true than Sennheiser personal graphs though.  I imagine you know where to find interesting debates on Measurements rigs, caveats of compensation curves and issues in measurements done directly on a real head.


----------



## DreamKing

@Sorrodje, it's because it's raw and not compensated. The Raw graph shows a ~10 dB bump at 6 kHz even from Tyll's measurements here: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf
  
 When compensated it's not as detrimental to the ears though, of course.


----------



## hekeli

shabta said:


> I do think that you can say that comparing one senn FR graph to another can tell you about the headphones relative to one another. And... I have, with some friends, tested this out a bit and very different graphs lead to headphones that could be distinguished from one another in somewhat blind listening tests. YMMV.


 
  
 Perhaps phones near the same serial, but we know nothing about Sennheiser rig, it might have changed many times. How many times do they reposition and average the phones? Perhaps the phones you tested have differently weared pads etc or just you position them differently on head. I think you can draw zilch conclusions from "one senn FR graph to another". Take 5-10 fresh phones and do them at the same time on a good rig, then we can speculate about production variance.


----------



## Sorrodje

@dreamking I was talking about raw measurements. Not compensated.


----------



## shabta

hekeli said:


> Perhaps phones near the same serial, but we know nothing about Sennheiser rig, it might have changed many times. How many times do they reposition and average the phones? Perhaps the phones you tested have differently weared pads etc or just you position them differently on head. I think you can draw zilch conclusions from "one senn FR graph to another". Take 5-10 fresh phones and do them at the same time on a good rig, then we can speculate about production variance.


 
 Um that is almost what we did. Just not 5-10 pairs. Anyway, I have a feeling that what ever I say or do you will have some snappy retort. Maybe what you are saying about phones from very different years is true. I hadn't really thought about that, but that wouldn't have made a difference in our case. But, it certainly would be better if the manufacturer would be more transparent about measurements.


----------



## hekeli

shabta said:


> Um that is almost what we did. Just not 5-10 pairs. Anyway, I have a feeling that what ever I say or do you will have some snappy retort.


 
  
 You "almost" measured them? Sorry I couldn't resist one more snappy resort before going out in the sun. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm in no way dismissing that there must be some audible production variance somewhere. All this rambling just came from the general "6khz" talk, which I'm sceptical about. If there indeed was HD800 without a peak, I'm sure 10 people would be dissecting them right now against a peaky one to find out the construction difference. But taking in account how the peak supposedly happens, I don't see how that could be happening on stock phones without the mods as we know.


----------



## Sorrodje

Once more... Purrin & his friends measured a very serious bunch of HD800. They all measured and sounded almost the same. the Brightness ( Everyone seem to focus on the 6khz but even it the brightness culminates at 6khz, i really think that a whole 4-8khz is boosted. listened to some sweeps and my ears told me the same thing. to each their own ) is always measurable and hearable. the Anax mod tames resonnances mostly . So the treble enhancement is less offensive.  my 2 cents. 
  

  
 CSD measurements but red areas show boostd frequencies. IMO more than a sole treble boost, I'd say that HD800 mids are recessed as well. Then the treble peak is more obvious. and that match my own listening impressions as well.


----------



## shabta

sorrodje said:


> CSD measurements but red areas show boostd frequencies. IMO more than a sole treble boost, I'd say that HD800 mids are recessed as well. Then the treble peak is more obvious. and that match my own listening impressions as well.


 
  
 As I recall, but my memory isn't so good, Purrin and friends didn't blind test and spoke to each other about what they heard during the test or before they made conclusions. Where as we didn't see which headphone was placed on our head nor discuss with each other whether we heard differences or not...
 But aside from whether there are ever audible differences, I agree with what you wrote above.


----------



## 299792458

It seems the headphone measurement is extremely complex and difficult fully characterize by doing a single measurement. How sound resonates (and the resulting sound levels, by frequency, that is actually received by one's ear canal) is dependent on so many factors....driver distance from the ear canal, angles, physical contours of the ears, head, etc. There can be great variations that come from small difference between these. When you also consider an individual's actual hearing abilities (or their own "biological" frequency response), seems there are a lot of things in play. 
  
 Would be interesting to have the ability to create a profile based on a calibration procedure to generate a custom EQ profile, involving the listener and a series measurements to create a flat frequency response. But playing with combinations of equipment and unique sound signatures is where all the fun is!


----------



## DreamKing

sorrodje said:


> Once more... Purrin & his friends measured a very serious bunch of HD800. They all measured and sounded almost the same. the Brightness ( Everyone seem to focus on the 6khz but even it the brightness culminates at 6khz, i really think that a whole 4-8khz is boosted. listened to some sweeps and my ears told me the same thing. to each their own ) is always measurable and hearable. the Anax mod tames resonnances mostly . So the treble enhancement is less offensive.  my 2 cents.
> 
> CSD measurements but red areas show boostd frequencies. IMO more than a sole treble boost, I'd say that HD800 mids are recessed as well. Then the treble peak is more obvious. and that match my own listening impressions as well.


 
  
 This is where methods differ. If purrin and his friends all used the same equipment and same methods, then the results would be the same. hekeli isn't using the same methods/equipment. But Tyll's graph shows high activity in the FR covering 3kHz-8kHz. 6 kHz is just referred to as a peak/culmination, but it does affect most of the treble too.


----------



## heart banger-97

dobrescu george said:


> Comparing to Z1000, the signature is extremely different. I mean... different.
> 
> What are you hearing, and what were you expecting to hear?
> 
> ...


 
  
  


bobfiggins said:


> I also have the Vali, and I can assure you that better amps do sound better. Vali gives the HD 800 everything it's got, but when you hear the HD 800 with better amps, you understand there's something missing.
> 
> With that said though, you should still be hearing fine details, and improved imaging/soundstage regardless. Sure it won't be at its full potential, but you should hear a difference.
> 
> ...


 
 I think that my problem is with the way that they present music especially in the mid and upper mid (in comparison of my westone 4r+75ohm resistance). I feel there is a thin mask between me and the guitar or cymbals. Music is not as aggressive as I like. Maybe it's the hd800 that I'm listening to is defective (its SN is 8XXX) or maybe I accustomed to inear's sound too much.
 I used different songs from guitar centric (like Joe Satriani) to drum centric (like Tool) to good mastered (like Porcupine Tree)


----------



## HiFiChris

@heart banger-97:
  
 According to the W4R's impedance response you should get quite a fair amount of boost in the upper mids/lower highs region when you combine it with a 75 Ohms resistance, so I just guess that you got used to it.


----------



## ubs28

sorrodje said:


> Once more... Purrin & his friends measured a very serious bunch of HD800. They all measured and sounded almost the same. the Brightness ( Everyone seem to focus on the 6khz but even it the brightness culminates at 6khz, i really think that a whole 4-8khz is boosted. listened to some sweeps and my ears told me the same thing. to each their own ) is always measurable and hearable. the Anax mod tames resonnances mostly . So the treble enhancement is less offensive.  my 2 cents.
> 
> 
> 
> CSD measurements but red areas show boostd frequencies. IMO more than a sole treble boost, I'd say that HD800 mids are recessed as well. Then the treble peak is more obvious. and that match my own listening impressions as well.


 
  
 That lines up with what I hear. The HD800 sounded a bit warm for some reason according to my ears.


----------



## Sorrodje

ubs28 said:


> That lines up with what I hear. The HD800 sounded a bit warm for some reason according to my ears.


 
  
 That lines up with what I hear as well. I've the HD800 and the HE-6 currently and the HE-6 is udoubetely sharper and less warm.  Both have some brightness but different ones.  HD800's low mids and mid bass are mostly responsible of the warmth. Slower transients than HE-6 as well.  my 2 cents.


----------



## preproman

HE-6 is undoubtedly less warm than the HD800s?  Uummm  interesting to say the least.  I don't know a TOTL planar that's less warm compared to the HD800s.


----------



## negura

preproman said:


> HE-6 is undoubtedly less warm than the HD800s?  Uummm  interesting to say the least.  I don't know a TOTL planar that's less warm compared to the HD800s.


 
  
 Yeah, this is interesting to me too. Even fine tuning and modding both my HD800s and HE-6s, the HD800s were always less warm comparatively. How much so depended on the mods sure, but I never heard the HD800s sounding warmer than the HE-6s yet on the same rig... Perhaps its terminology.


----------



## Sorrodje

It's terminology
  
 i know the warmth is often associated to a bass quantity . Bass quantity plays a role. And for that there's no doubt the HE-6 offer more bass. In terms of FR , IMO and IME the warmth is more a matter of low mids. Here , like its predecessor , the HD800 emphasizes low mids and Mid bass over low bass and mids.  all measurement show that. this is the warmth I talking too.   Second, HE-6 transients and speed are better than the HD800. the the relative "slowness" of the HD800 compartively to the HE-6  adds a slight bloom that induces some warmth.  
  
 Tube warmth is not due to bass for example right. My DNA sonett was undoublty warmer than any solid state amp I heard but the bass wass weaker as well.
  
 Don't forget I'm french and Maybe we don"t use the same precise words to descrive same things . So forgive me I make mistake.  
  
 Hope that makes more sense for you.


----------



## pearljam50000

HD800 is slow?


----------



## Sorrodje

Comparatively to the HE-6 or the SR009. Definitely.  . YMMV though.


----------



## negura

pearljam50000 said:


> HD800 is slow?


 
  
 Of course they're not at all in an absolute term. But I get what Sorrodje is referring to after clarifying offline. Different terminology. =)
  
 In regards to warmth, imo while the FR does play a role here, neutrality is not only a matter of FR. Example: There are headphones measuring flat like the Audeze and SR009, but they don't sound at all the same in terms of neutrality.


----------



## Dobrescu George

preproman said:


> HE-6 is undoubtedly less warm than the HD800s?  Uummm  interesting to say the least.  I don't know a TOTL planar that's less warm compared to the HD800s.


 
  


negura said:


> Yeah, this is interesting to me too. Even fine tuning and modding both my HD800s and HE-6s, the HD800s were always less warm comparatively. How much so depended on the mods sure, but I never heard the HD800s sounding warmer than the HE-6s yet on the same rig... Perhaps its terminology.


 
  
  
  
 I think that you two mean totally opposite things.


----------



## koiloco

sorrodje said:


> That lines up with what I hear as well. I've the HD800 and the HE-6 currently and the HE-6 is udoubetely sharper and less warm.  Both have some brightness but different ones.  HD800's low mids and mid bass are mostly responsible of the warmth. Slower transients than HE-6 as well.  my 2 cents.


 
 Are you being serious?  IMO and IME, HD800 is not even close to being warmer than HE-6.  I haven't listened to  a DAC/AMP combo that produces this "warmth" for the HD800 vs the HE-6.
 Please elaborate.


----------



## koiloco

preproman said:


> HE-6 is undoubtedly less warm than the HD800s?  Uummm  interesting to say the least.  I don't know a TOTL planar that's less warm compared to the HD800s.


 
 +1


----------



## koiloco

Regarding transients and speed of HD800 vs HE-6, to my ears, it's going to be a hard call.  I often listen to percussion and string instruments to determine transients and speed of a HP.  IME, I can't call either one a clear winner.


----------



## Sorrodje

koiloco said:


> Are you being serious?  IMO and IME, HD800 is not even close to being warmer than HE-6.  I haven't listened to  a DAC/AMP combo that produces this "warmth" for the HD800 vs the HE-6.
> Please elaborate.





I've already elaborated above. 

Can't do better and Yes I'm serious and Yes the HE-6 offers more bass but the HD800 stays the warmer of the two to my ears  even if I'm alone to think that way.  I did enough direct A/B during the last weeks to be affirmative on this point. But I know I 've maybe a personal definition of "warmth" so YMMV. Sorry my english is maybe not enough to explain it better. 

If I take a he500 and a he-6, the first one is warmer in my opinion. From what I remember he-6 bass are not weaker though. Hope that helps to understand what I mean.

Still IMO for speed and transients , the HE-6 wins. I thought that was the main strength of the HD800 but once I heard stats and the best orthos ( HE-6 , Abyss ) I understood I was wrong. BTW the HD800 is really really fast. Don't get me wrong.


----------



## pearljam50000

How much faster is the 009 in % , when compared to HD800? Thanks.


----------



## preproman

Again this is where we hear different i guess. IMO the HD800 is not warmer than any Planar I know. No elaboration can change that. Of corse YMMV and all that.


----------



## MacedonianHero

preproman said:


> Again this is where we hear different i guess. IMO the HD800 is not warmer than any Planar I know. No elaboration can change that. Of corse YMMV and all that.


 
  
 I wouldn't classify either the HE-6s or HD800s as "bright". But that said, I've always found the HD800s the brighter headphones of the two.


----------



## pearljam50000

I think people confuse the amazing clarity and details of the HD800 with "brightness".


----------



## MacedonianHero

pearljam50000 said:


> I think people confuse the amazing clarity and details of the HD800 with "brightness".


 
  
 I would agree. But they are on the brighter side of things when compared to the HE-6s, SR-009s, LCD-X and HE1000s. I still have my HD800s (just over 5 years now) and they aren't going anywhere!


----------



## koiloco

sorrodje said:


> I've already elaborated above.
> 
> Can't do better and Yes I'm serious and Yes the HE-6 offers more bass but the HD800 stays the warmer of the two to my ears  even if I'm alone to think that way.  I did enough direct A/B during the last weeks to be affirmative on this point. But I know I 've maybe a personal definition of "warmth" so YMMV. Sorry my english is maybe not enough to explain it better.
> 
> ...


 
 Thx for clarifying.  I respect your opinion and realize that our hearing could be quite different.


----------



## skeptic

Hard to define brightness in reference to the hd800 vs. he6 given that the latter has a big null right where the hd800 has a peak (~5-6khz).  Then again, the he6 curve then jigjags up to a huge peak at ~10khz, 12db louder than it is at 5khz.  http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones-0  
  
 Perception of brightness probably boils down to your preferred genres, the fundamental frequencies being played at any given moment, and whether you have implemented any of the popular mods to tame peaks.


----------



## Sorrodje

Yes. in my book both HE-6 and HD800 are on the bright side. different brightness though. 
  
 For the wamth, we can agree to disagree but I think it's more a terminology issue. Even in french I don't use "warmth" to talk about bass quantity. It's more a qualitative thing that pervades in lows and mids .


----------



## frank2908

Im listening to the hd800 through my Pulse xfi, the sound is quite enjoyable withou harshness. But im still wondering is there a good tube amp kit out there for the hd800? Im looking at the bottlehead sex, but wanna see more option. And cappability to drive speaker is a plus, although my kef ls50 need at leas 50 wpc(kef recommend 25 wpc, but im using mine with 175 wpc)


----------



## Maxx134

Hello everyone I would like to tell you hopefully some usefull info:

 whosoever feels their HD800 is on the light, or bright, or soul-less side :

I have been there...
I let go the HD800 the first time I owned one.
It was hideously harsh and soul-less and brutal to my ears, 
BUT it alwasys had a massive soundatage..
Goodbye old HD800..

Yet,
On advise from a friend, I once again attained a second pair, which was a bit newer, and a super tiny bit less treble bite, 
but I dont buy into the newer model number hype..


Anyways there are TWO things I found that play a HUGE factor in what makes these HD800 SUPERIOR most.

1-Equipment matching
2-Modding 

1-Nedless to say that you would benifit from equipment suited to higher inpedance cans, 
like a TUBE or tube hybrid amp.
That is the first equipment that HD800 will interface primarily,
so I wont get into anything else,
 but its obvious that you also need a dac that is not harsh or grainy on trebles as the HD800 is too revealing ..

2- the biggest improvement I made on the HD800 was HARD WIRING the Draug2 cables in...(!)

No other cable I know can produce such awsome bass increase in amount, size and depth.

I cannot stress enough, as it is not an exaggeration how my HD800 does not sound remotely the same as stock.

I also tried to increase bass in a friends HD800 which was hardwired with SAA Endorphen cable, 
But no matter how much annax2.0 materials we tried, 
I could not achieve the level of bass which mine had!

At times I would feel an almost LCD type bass!

Ok now for the even better part:
We BOTH compared our hardwired HD800s to the HE1000 he had on loan(to buy)...

Hands down, within seconds it was readily apparent,
that there was NOTHING the HE1000 had, besides "sub-bass"..(!)

BOTH our hardwired HD800 outperformed the HE1000 in every area, completely, easily, and definitely!!!
Every area EXCEPT *sub bass..*

The point is, HD800 actually does indeed have much life, soul and beauty,
 when matched with the *right gear*!


It tells you whats wrong with your gear, 
So in the past, when I hated the HD800, I didnt realize it was telling me I hated *my gear!*

The HD800 also tells you also that it NEEDS to be modded!
Like a girlfriend telling you she needs to put on nice clothes for you,
So the HD800 stock driver screams to clothe her with modding material, so it can show you even greater accuracy..

So Both stock cable, and stock "configuration",
 is hampering this unit from achieving its potential, 
which I am hoping all will realize, and which materials ike annax(2or3) can help.

BUt
I would also recommend, even FIRST,
 TO HARD WIRE WITH DRAUG2 CABLE..

That would be the biggest improvement/advise I could give..

I have been fortunate to try other cables but not hardwired.

Whoever thinks hard wiring is debatable,
 I will bring my HD800 at next NYmeet and judge for yourself,
as it is a large change from just plugging into with stock plugs..

With same cable using stock plugs, my other friends HD800 is noticably more punchy than stock, 
 but not as bass heavy as mine..

Well there are my thoughts.
I realize its long but
I hope you all could gain something from it.

Cheers.


----------



## yates7592

Very interesting. What difference does hard-wired make vs detachable cable?


----------



## Maxx134

Recabling magnifies the traits of the wire when hardwiring.

In my case, the increase in bass and depth perception is magnified..


----------



## negura

maxx134 said:


> Recabling magnifies the traits of the wire when hardwiring.
> 
> In my case, the increase in bass and depth perception is magnified..


 
  
 If you want some good bass, perhaps worth to try the Black Widow 8 wire from Toxic Cables. It improves on my Draug V2's bass quite a bit (quantity a bit, but more in quality of the bass: detail/leading edge). It also has better overall detail, articulation, separation, layering. The mids are less recessed in the stage compared to the Draug and are more present. Some may prefer the latter, but I don't.
  
 However proceed with caution: One thing the BW8 doesn't do is soften the HD800 or make them "nicer" sounding like the Draug. It does add body to the bones and what bass, but it's very a revealing beast. Switching to the Draug V2, the latter sound a bit foggy.
  
 I am thinking to hard wire my HD800s with these cables. They are amazing in transparency. Are there any instructions how to get inside the HD800s to hard wire?


----------



## Maxx134

Are they silver plated?
That could be a reason ,
but I prefer a linearity of sonic cues by using either all copper or all silver which , by the way, usually runs much smaller guage and offests benifits of superior conductance..


----------



## Sorrodje

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=HD800+Dissection+and+Measurements+%2F+direct-wire+mod+%2F+effect+of+mesh+%2F+driver
  
@negura :


----------



## Maxx134

sorrodje said:


> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=HD800+Dissection+and+Measurements+%2F+direct-wire+mod+%2F+effect+of+mesh+%2F+driver
> 
> @negura
> :



OMG thats so funny automation


----------



## negura

maxx134 said:


> Are they silver plated?
> That could be a reason ,
> but I prefer a linearity of sonic cues by using either all copper or all silver which , by the way, usually runs much smaller guage and offests benifits of superior conductance..


 
  
 Pure litz copper.
  


sorrodje said:


> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=HD800+Dissection+and+Measurements+%2F+direct-wire+mod+%2F+effect+of+mesh+%2F+driver
> 
> @negura :


 
  
 Gee thanks. But do you know why they don't send donkeys to school?
 Click to find out: http://bfy.tw/LZV


----------



## Maxx134

negura said:


> maxx134 said:
> 
> 
> > Are they silver plated?
> ...



haha Ur not realizing this:
http://bfy.tw/LbT

Also copper only is excellent, but some copper like blue dragon cable I felt was dull/lifeless.

Also felt the Draug2 had larger stage than excellent silver dragon,
which was better for the he560,
so I would assume the wire depends greatly on the headphone..


----------



## preproman

So what's matched with the right gear? I guess you'll say a tube amp. Or maybe the amp your using? That is just so subjective it's crazy. 

Saying the HD800s are lifeless and souless is only relative to what they're compared to. And that's most headphones with more present mids. That's how I see it anyway.

I've tried $4k tube amps $3 and $4k SS amps. "Nothing"

Also lets face it. Saying the HD800s are so reveling is just not true. There's nothing anyother TOTL headphone is not reveling that the HD800s are. 

The brightness only makes you think so. The Abyss, HE-6, LCD-3F, and anyother TOTL headphone produce the the same recorded music. No details are missing it's just in what way do the like it type of thing.


----------



## negura

maxx134 said:


>


 
  
 I'm just screw*** with Sorrodje. This cable is the opposite of dull lol. It's a buckle up your seatbelts type of cable.  Tons of energy. Doesn't sound like some slow copper cables I've heard at all.
  


preproman said:


> Also lets face it. Saying the HD800s are so reveling is just not true. There's nothing anyother TOTL headphone is not reveling that the HD800s are.
> 
> The brightness only makes you think so. The Abyss, HE-6, LCD-3F, and anyother TOTL headphone produce the the same recorded music. No details are missing it's just in what way do the like it type of thing.


 
  
 Well your opinion is quite clear on this matter. Maybe it's terminology, but I can't explain it. What I am hearing on these modded HD800s is that they have a very clear resolving advantage to all the other flagships I've had here: HEK, 3F, HE-6s (coming second after the latest mods), SR009s/ SR007s MKI (probably needed a next level amp than the KGSSHV or BHSE). Call it detail forward, hyper revealing, wtvr. The modded HD800 just does highlight more detail more clearly than other headphones. Even the master tapes background noise is revealed better than on any other headphones, not to mention incidental recording garbage across most FR. This is not always an advantage lol. 
  
 I would agree though this is not valid across the whole FR. For example as sub-bass goes, the HD800 can hardly be revealing compared to some planars, simply because the HD800s don't do much sub-bass to speak of.
  
 Note: My HD800 are modded to be revealing, not the softer/more veiled sounding full Anax 2 version. Mods: no dust covers, very light rug liner material, BW8 cables.


----------



## preproman

Highlights the details more. I like and can agree with that. 

Would you say you can hear the tape hiss on the HD800s and no other TOTL headphone? That I can't agree with. But like you said you might can hear it louder or better.

Mods: 
Can a mod be done to a headphone to make it more reveling or is it just more bright or brighter / airier. I'm just not sure Mods can make a transducer more reveling, the transducer is going to revel only what it's capable of. Now a mod can be done to lift a veil or add a veil. Unless the mod is done to the transducer it self.


----------



## Redge78

negura said:


> If you want some good bass, perhaps worth to try the Black Widow 8 wire from Toxic Cables. It improves on my Draug V2's bass quite a bit (quantity a bit, but more in quality of the bass: detail/leading edge). It also has better overall detail, articulation, separation, layering. The mids are less recessed in the stage compared to the Draug and are more present. Some may prefer the latter, but I don't.
> 
> However proceed with caution: One thing the BW8 doesn't do is soften the HD800 or make them "nicer" sounding like the Draug. It does add body to the bones and what bass, but it's very a revealing beast. Switching to the Draug V2, the latter sound a bit foggy.
> 
> I am thinking to hard wire my HD800s with these cables. They are amazing in transparency. Are there any instructions how to get inside the HD800s to hard wire?


 
 Draug vs Black Widow ...
  
 you can have a look below, the guy seems to have a decent analysis of the strenghts/weaknesses of both cables, even if the cables seem to be previous versions ("4 wires" Toxic and "16 wires" Draug). And he takes the most lovely pics I've seen for ages. So he has to be right !
http://headmania.org/2014/06/18/aftermarket-cables-for-sennheiser-hd800/
  
 The last time I ordered a cable from Toxics, it took 5 months between ordering and actually receiving it ... that's a "not twice" for me.


----------



## negura

redge78 said:


> Draug vs Black Widow ...
> 
> you can have a look below, the guy seems to have a decent analysis of the strenghts/weaknesses of both cables, even if the cables seem to be previous versions ("4 wires" Toxic and "16 wires" Draug). And he takes the most lovely pics I've seen for ages. So he has to be right !
> http://headmania.org/2014/06/18/aftermarket-cables-for-sennheiser-hd800/
> ...


 
  
 I am familiar with the review as I speak often with Dan @ headmania.org. That is the 4 wire Black Widow, that I had at home too. This is the 8 wire version and sounds quite different. The 4 wire BW was not better than the Draug, but this one imo is.


----------



## Sorrodje

@preproman : If you don't get the point of resolution and why resolution is better with the HD800 than the HE-6 , that's fine for me. We spent some serious tieme with NEgura to compare HE1K vs HD800 vs HE-6 and the HD800 is the most resolving of the bunch. that's not detail or hiss or flies fart. thats fine nuances in the music , ambiances, reverbs , cues. We spent a lot of time to evaluate with Negura to evaluate that in order to make our opinion about the HEK.  Ask him If you don't trust me as a HD800 nut.


----------



## preproman

Im saying after "years" of owning multiple TOTL headphones at the same time and multiple combinations of TOTL gear. The HD800s does not do the fine nuances in the music, ambiances, reverbs, cues better than any other TOTL headphone namely the Abyss and HE-6. This is my opinion just as it's yours.


----------



## Sorrodje

preproman said:


> This is my opinion just as it's yours.


 
  
  
 That's fine for me.


----------



## inseconds99

Any opinions on this https://www.jdslabs.com/products/151/the-element-by-jds-labs badboy that just got announced today by JDSlabs. I am trying to find an small inexpensive solid state amp and dac that is transparent for my HD800's. Not looking for any real coloration except for maybe some smoothing of that treble peak and I wouldn't mind some warmth in the low end though not needed. I don't have a lot of space to fit massive equipment everywhere and am not looking for big old antiquated tubes everywhere. This does look interesting.


----------



## skeptic

preproman said:


> Mods:
> Can a mod be done to a headphone to make it more reveling or is it just more bright or brighter / airier. I'm just not sure Mods can make a transducer more reveling, the transducer is going to revel only what it's capable of. Now a mod can be done to lift a veil or add a veil. Unless the mod is done to the transducer it self.


 
  
 I would say that the anax mod, depending on its precise implementation and materials, arguably makes the hd800's more revealing by eliminating reflections and improving imaging, actually at the cost of some air and sense of space.  Also, to me, by slightly taming certain treble frequencies, they become less dominant and the rest of the FR easier to hear - sort of the inverse of the common complaint about phones with a mid-bass hump masking deep bass detail.  The transducer is what it is, but I do think cup mods can substantially change how revealing a headphone is on the whole.


----------



## negura

skeptic said:


> I would say that the anax mod, depending on its precise implementation and materials, arguably makes the hd800's more revealing by eliminating reflections and improving imaging, actually at the cost of some air and sense of space.  Also, to me, by slightly taming certain treble frequencies, they become less dominant and the rest of the FR easier to hear - sort of the inverse of the common complaint about phones with a mid-bass hump masking deep bass detail.  The transducer is what it is, but I do think cup mods can substantially change how revealing a headphone is on the whole.


 
  
 You do raise some good points. Reducing reflections does help the HD800s otherwise slightly fuzzy stock imaging (compared to the 009s and HE-6s for example)  improve. The full mod does also reduce air, as well as softens the transients. The latter part is something I have no need for. This is why I went a bit off-piste with the Anax mod. I am only using part of it - i.e. the liner rug mod and a light version of that material. It's still eliminating reflections, and evening the treble response very mildly, but dampens the sound less than the full mod does. 
  
 But the biggest improvement is removing the dust covers. Here's an analogy: Who seriously listens to good speakers with the cloth grills on? Why then do this to our HD800s. 
  


preproman said:


> Im saying after "years" of owning multiple TOTL headphones at the same time and multiple combinations of TOTL gear. The HD800s does not do the fine nuances in the music, ambiances, reverbs, cues better than any other TOTL headphone namely the Abyss and HE-6. This is my opinion just as it's yours.


 
  
 You'll be back. I sold these several times myself. Modding them, and getting the starts aligned, for these to become something of an item is a pain in the ass though. =)


----------



## Maxx134

preproman said:


> So what's matched with the right gear? I guess you'll say a tube amp...


 ~
IT is very well known already that most OTL tube amps have higher output impedance ,
And thus are more suited to higher impedance headphones like the hd800, which you probabaly already know.
So it is not what I SAY,
 but a simple fact. 


.....




preproman said:


> Or maybe the amp your using? That is just so subjective it's crazy.


 
Haha! I bet you have a sweet setup, no doubt.
I can only go by my experience,
And so far, my experience is sayn tubes for end game experience.

You are invited to gear my project amp in future once done.





preproman said:


> I've tried $4k tube amps $3 and $4k SS amps. "Nothing"
> 
> Also lets face it. Saying the HD800s are so reveling is just not true. There's nothing anyother TOTL headphone is not reveling that the HD800s are.
> 
> The brightness only makes you think so. The Abyss, HE-6, LCD-3F, and anyother TOTL headphone produce the the same recorded music. No details are missing it's just in what way do the like it type of thing.


 

I can agree that Abyss, HE-6, LCD-3 & HE1000 (I like them in that order) are also nice TOTL cans, 
but, to my ears, none actually superceeded the HD800 in any area except bass...
Of course I dont expect you to agree as you stated we all hear differently




negura said:


> redge78 said:
> 
> 
> > Draug vs Black Widow ...
> ...



I am unclear, is it Druag or Draug2 you are referencing to?

So far I found the Draug2 to be best.

The SAA Endorphen cable to me sounded like the Cardas cable.
Those two were less flashy than the Vanquish cable, but much more coherent in treble area.
Then Silver dragon cable was more superior in soundstaging cues to those, followed and superceeded by my Draig2 cable which I found best, with both largest soundstaging and most bass, but I have not tried the "Black Widow".


----------



## negura

maxx134 said:


>


 
  
 The latest and greatest V2. I got it not too long ago.


----------



## Maxx134

negura said:


> maxx134 said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



wow I will now keep that one in mind.
When will it end..


----------



## negura

maxx134 said:


> wow I will now keep that one in mind.
> When will it end..


 
  
 Yes I know. I thought I was done with the V2. But then Frank @ Toxic thought he can do it better. And actually he pulled this one off imo.
 That said: This 8 wire BW is like a Draug V2 on Red Bull. It's more energetic, clear and detailed sounding, while retaining that body and (imo better) bass. Some systems that are a bit bright and need to be toned down, could synergize better with the Draug2 though, as it is a bit softer sounding comparatively.


----------



## preproman

skeptic said:


> I would say that the anax mod, depending on its precise implementation and materials, arguably makes the hd800's more revealing by eliminating reflections and improving imaging, actually at the cost of some air and sense of space.  Also, to me, by slightly taming certain treble frequencies, they become less dominant and the rest of the FR easier to hear - sort of the inverse of the common complaint about phones with a mid-bass hump masking deep bass detail.  The transducer is what it is, but I do think cup mods can substantially change how revealing a headphone is on the whole.


 

 Very good points.  
  
 For the same reasons you pointed out is why "All" of the mods on the HD800s I heard (anax) I did not like at all.  I haven't heard the Ultra mod yet.  However, in James mod he already removes the dust cover - so I've been doing that for a few years now.
  
 I'm still not convinced by taming one aspect of the FR, another one is not effected.  Other than modding the driver it self.


----------



## preproman

negura said:


> You'll be back. I sold these several times myself. Modding them, and getting the starts aligned, for these to become something of an item is a pain in the ass though. =)


 
  
 You're more than likely right.  I think I just need a break from them for a while..


----------



## Headphonetopia

my hd800 has been burning in at high volume for a total of 45 hours now inside the box. when i listen through them this morning,it sounded more quiet than before. i notice i had to crank up the volume much higher passing my usual listening level. is this normal?  playing too loud could damage the drivers?


----------



## pearljam50000

Hummm i would not do that... 45 straight hours is a pretty long time for a headphone to work non stop, but i'm no expert.
  
 Edit: 1000th post!


----------



## paulchiu

headphonetopia said:


> my hd800 has been burning in at high volume for a total of 45 hours now inside the box. when i listen through them this morning,it sounded more quiet than before. i notice i had to crank up the volume much higher passing my usual listening level. is this normal?  playing too loud could damage the drivers?


 
  
 Excessive volume can damage the voice coils in dynamic headphones and the diaphragm in electrostatic ones.  There are other headphone designs as well, but most are vulnerable to certain threshold levels where small parts in your headphones will start to break.  A good rule of thumb is if your ears start to ring or hurt, your headphones are hurting as well.


----------



## johnjen

maxx134 said:


> Hello everyone I would like to tell you hopefully some usefull info:
> 
> whosoever feels their HD800 is on the light, or bright, or soul-less side :
> 
> ...





I have long been a proponent of hardwiring. it can make a HUGE difference in the overall SQ level.
I have found that when the rest of the system is tweaked 'enough' hardwiring can remove a HUGE choke point.

As for the sub bass...
I am getting sub-sonic harmonics and resonances on my 800's.

Here is a trick you might want to try.
Add +4dB at 16Hz with a very broad Q of 0.16
(These are starting points and can be changed to suit your preferences)

And play some tracks that actually do have these lower harmonics.

There are a few other mods that will also help the extreme bottom end, which are easy to do and easily reversable.

I'm about to try taking a half step towards hardwiring by 'augmenting' and increasing the contact patch between the two mating surfaces of a standard plug. I'm hoping it will make a noticeable difference.

JJ


----------



## rogerthatmand

Guys,
 As I'm waiting (almost a month now..) for my Crack + Speedball to ship, I'm starting to have doubts.
 I've researched a lot more, and I find that the Valhalla 2 is a fantastic amp for the HD800.
 What do you think? should I cancel the Crack + Speedball and get the Valhalla 2?


----------



## JamieMcC

rogerthatmand said:


> Guys,
> As I'm waiting (almost a month now..) for my Crack + Speedball to ship, I'm starting to have doubts.
> I've researched a lot more, and I find that the Valhalla 2 is a fantastic amp for the HD800.
> What do you think? should I cancel the Crack + Speedball and get the Valhalla 2?


 
  
 The Cracks normally take around four weeks or so to ship which can be frustrating (I know) so should be soon. Cracks sell quickly and a you will should easily be able to recoup your full kit cost later. The best bit is they are a great sounding easy and fun to do project which can be hot-rodded up with steeped attenuators film caps and choked power supplies normally only found on much more expensive amps for improved sonics.


----------



## rogerthatmand

But what about the sound quality?


----------



## ubs28

maxx134 said:


> Hello everyone I would like to tell you hopefully some usefull info:
> 
> whosoever feels their HD800 is on the light, or bright, or soul-less side :
> 
> ...




Much easier to use a good EQ and adjust the frequency response to what sounds best to you.


----------



## BobFiggins

For those of you who have tried the Draug2, have any of you also heard the Black Dragon V2? Can you give a comparison?


----------



## subtle

headphonetopia said:


> my hd800 has been burning in at high volume for a total of 45 hours now inside the box. when i listen through them this morning,it sounded more quiet than before. i notice i had to crank up the volume much higher passing my usual listening level. is this normal?  playing too loud could damage the drivers?


 
  
 They don't need to be burned in at a volume higher than what you would actually listen to.
  
 Yes playing too loud can damage the drivers.


----------



## johnjen

johnjen said:


> I have long been a proponent of hardwiring. it can make a HUGE difference in the overall SQ level.
> I have found that when the rest of the system is tweaked 'enough' hardwiring can remove a HUGE choke point.
> 
> snip
> ...


 
  
 Yes indeed, proving once again that improving the contact patch between plug and recepticle contacts does yield significant improvements!
  
 JJ


----------



## Moonhead

Im really really tempted on this on, 890 Euro for HD800.
Netherlands. 

http://www.ebay.de/itm/SENNHEISER-HD800-headphone-Nieuw-NEW-2-year-warranty-/301658832923?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_146&hash=item463c44801b


----------



## JamieMcC

moonhead said:


> Im really really tempted on this on, 890 Euro for HD800.
> Netherlands.
> 
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/SENNHEISER-HD800-headphone-Nieuw-NEW-2-year-warranty-/301658832923?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_146&hash=item463c44801b


 

 I brought my HD800s from them they arrived quickly and as described new sealed in box and was very pleased with my purchase..
 Just waiting for a pair of HE-6 's to arrive now from Japan


----------



## kamalz

rogerthatmand said:


> But what about the sound quality?


 
  
    I have a crack speedsball plus some mundolf caps installed . 
    one of the best part about crack is that u dont need to use pairing tubes ..
    I use GEC 6AS7G  &  Unison research intergrated amp's   12AX7  tube   to power my HD800.
    IMO they are really good in detail and neutral. Oh..not using HD800 stock cable as it hurts my ears.


----------



## rogerthatmand

kamalz said:


> Oh..not using HD800 stock cable as it hurts my ears.


 
 What do you mean?


----------



## joshk4

kamalz said:


> I have a crack speedsball plus some mundolf caps installed .
> one of the best part about crack is that u dont need to use pairing tubes ..
> I use GEC 6AS7G  &  Unison research intergrated amp's   12AX7  tube   to power my HD800.
> IMO they are really good in detail and neutral. Oh..not using HD800 stock cable as it hurts my ears.


 
  
 Sounds fine to me using SE


----------



## White Lotus

I've recently been loving my La Figaro 339 + modded HD800 combo.
  
 I can't help but wonder, though, 
  
 using a tube amp + the anax mod, am I shaving off too much treble? Should I just be using another headphone instead? 
  
 EDIT: the rig in question:


----------



## longbowbbs

white lotus said:


> I've recently been loving my La Figaro 339 + modded HD800 combo.
> 
> I can't help but wonder, though,
> 
> using a tube amp + the anax mod, am I shaving off too much treble? Should I just be using another headphone instead?


 
 For me, sibilance or shrill highs with the HD800's are a result of either a poor recording or poor pairing with the rest of your gear. I am enjoying the HD800's, Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 DSDse and the ALO Audio Studio Six at the moment and it is revelatory. Incredible balance. Clean and clear across all frequencies. 
  
 Whenever I have been exposed to highs that were not good, making a change of either the amp or DAC (or a couple times a cable) cleared up the issue.
  
 As always YMMV.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

white lotus said:


> I've recently been loving my La Figaro 339 + modded HD800 combo.
> 
> I can't help but wonder, though,
> 
> ...


 
 Beautiful amp! I have a similar one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You raise a great question. I am listening to them un-modded so far, as my modding materials have just arrived. I will try my best to compare modded/unmodded through the 339. What tubes are you preferring with the HD 800 BTW?


----------



## paulchiu

HD800 works great with 300B tubes as well.  Every time I roll into another pair, the sound signature changes.  Like getting a new amp.
 Have tried Western Electric 1940s to 1960s 300B, Russian, Chinese.  Recently some EML and waiting for a pair of Takatsuki 300B to arrive from Japan.


----------



## White Lotus

liu junyuan said:


> Beautiful amp! I have a similar one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks!
  
 My favourite tubes for the HD800 are the RCA 6AS7 + EF86 combination. Great amount of treble taming, brilliant warm bass, excellent imaging, and great volume matching to the HD800.


----------



## White Lotus

paulchiu said:


> HD800 works great with 300B tubes as well.  Every time I roll into another pair, the sound signature changes.  Like getting a new amp.
> Have tried Western Electric 1940s to 1960s 300B, Russian, Chinese.  Recently some EML and waiting for a pair of Takatsuki 300B to arrive from Japan.


 
  
 Is your HD800 missing pads?!


----------



## paulchiu

white lotus said:


> Is your HD800 missing pads?!


 
  
 Works great over my Ushanka.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

white lotus said:


> Thanks!
> 
> My favourite tubes for the HD800 are the RCA 6AS7 + EF86 combination. Great amount of treble taming, brilliant warm bass, excellent imaging, and great volume matching to the HD800.


 
 I use the same tube set-up, except more specifically the Telefunken EF 86s with the RCA power tubes, as you use. 
  
 I have some pretty bad pictures here (also, my 339 is in black), but they convey the point, and I like the sound


----------



## pearljam50000

New mod: no pads mod ^_^


----------



## Taowolf51

white lotus said:


> I've recently been loving my La Figaro 339 + modded HD800 combo.
> 
> I can't help but wonder, though,
> 
> ...


 
  
 Beautiful stuff! You still using that EQ? Or did you go back to stock?
  
 As for the question, that all depends on you. Your tastes, your music, your sound.


----------



## White Lotus

taowolf51 said:


> Beautiful stuff! You still using that EQ? Or did you go back to stock?
> 
> As for the question, that all depends on you. Your tastes, your music, your sound.


 
  
 Still using the EQ - not pictured here. Your memory serves you well!
  




  
  


liu junyuan said:


> I have some pretty bad pictures here (also, my 339 is in black), but they convey the point, and I like the sound


 
  
 Not bad photos at all! Nice depth of field, and it helps that both the HD800 and the 339 are very photogenic items.
  
 I'm currently recovering from having my wisdom teeth removed, so I might take some shots of my gear today - your post has motivated me to do so.
  
 BTW - my EF86 tubes are Electro Harmonix. 
  
 Do many prefer non EQ + solid state amplification for the HD800?
  
 My favourite ways to drive it are:
  
 No EQ > Tubes
  
 or
  
 EQ > SS amp.


----------



## kamalz

i find that hd800 treble is bright to my ears. thats the reason i used after market cable. i dont use eq in my setup for either tube or non tube set up. i believe every hd800 owners will find a way to tame the treble brightness. it is just a matter of ways to do it.
well ..thats my opinion.


----------



## chuckwheat

kamalz said:


> i find that hd800 treble is bright to my ears. thats the reason i used after market cable. i dont use eq in my setup for either tube or non tube set up. i believe every hd800 owners will find a way to tame the treble brightness. it is just a matter of ways to do it.
> well ..thats my opinion.


 
 I agree. In the few times I've used the hd800s, I've had to turn the volume down on some songs that were bright. Maybe just a really warm amp would help?


----------



## Ruben123

chuckwheat said:


> I agree. In the few times I've used the hd800s, I've had to turn the volume down on some songs that were bright. Maybe just a really warm amp would help?


 

 A simple software EQ of your mobile phone would help. Cheaper and endlessly better since you can alter the sound to your liking.


----------



## uchihaitachi

ruben123 said:


> A simple software EQ of your mobile phone would help. Cheaper and endlessly better since you can alter the sound to your liking.


 
 People on head-fi seems to be allergic to the art of EQing.
  
 Using EQ will save you so much time and money. Unless you want to plug to different 'warm' amps for each and every song.


----------



## Taowolf51

uchihaitachi said:


> People on head-fi seems to be allergic to the art of EQing.
> 
> Using EQ will save you so much time and money. Unless you want to plug to different 'warm' amps for each and every song.


 
  
 I love the level of precision they offer. I don't need to use a piece of gear that rolls off from 6k on to fix the peak, I can simply surgically lower that exact area to my needs without affecting the rest of the frequency range.
  
 However, EQ's do have their limitations. They don't provide more pleasurable tube distortion, reduced driver control (which some like), and don't fix stuff like cup resonance (which is what mods are for).


----------



## drez

EQ is fine but like anything else it has tradeoff - for EQ this is ringing or artefacts from the digital filtering (generally pretty transparent though).  Warm amps have tradeoff.  Warm cables have tradeoff.  Anax mod sort of has tradeoffs.
  
 My philosophy I don't like active solutions and prefer to address the problem (ringing) directly so I prefer modification of the headphone as a matter of philosophy.


----------



## defbear

kamalz said:


> i find that hd800 treble is bright to my ears. thats the reason i used after market cable. i dont use eq in my setup for either tube or non tube set up. i believe every hd800 owners will find a way to tame the treble brightness. it is just a matter of ways to do it.
> well ..thats my opinion.


My way was to purchase a Sennheiser HDVD800 which solved the problem.


----------



## rogerthatmand

Hey,
 I'm looking for a cheap DAC. What is better between ODAC vs Modi 2?


----------



## HiFiChris

Though the following lines may sound ridiculous, I really mean it seriously:
  
 Yesterday, I completely cut off my mutton chops and shaved my head, then I showered and listened to the HD 800. Treble was clearly more prominent and the certain harshness some are talking about was suddenly there and the low range was less prominent. It's interesting how the bald area around my ears now makes such a difference compared to when I had mutton chops and head hair just before.
 I guess it's time now to regrow my facial and head hair again to get back the "body's natural Anaxilus mod".


----------



## pietcux

Th





hifichris said:


> Though the following lines may sound ridiculous but I really mean it serious:
> 
> Yesterday, I completely cut off my mutton chops and shaved my head, then I showered and listened to the HD 800. Treble was clearly more prominent and the certain harshness some are talking about was suddenly there and the low range was less prominent. It's interesting how the bald area around my ears now makes such a difference compared to when I had mutton chops and head hair just before.
> I guess it's time now to regrow my facial and head hair again to get back the "body's natural Anaxilus mod".



That is the spirit, awesome!!


----------



## Taowolf51

hifichris said:


> Though the following lines may sound ridiculous, I really mean it serious:
> 
> Yesterday, I completely cut off my mutton chops and shaved my head, then I showered and listened to the HD 800. Treble was clearly more prominent and the certain harshness some are talking about was suddenly there and the low range was less prominent. It's interesting how the bald area around my ears now makes such a difference compared to when I had mutton chops and head hair just before.
> I guess it's time now to regrow my facial and head hair again to get back the "body's natural Anaxilus mod".


 
  
 I just recently got an undercut:

  
 And my first thought leaving the barber was "Huh, this'll be perfect for my HD800's!


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Could it have been the shower, rather than the shave?


----------



## icebear

ruthieandjohn said:


> Could it have been the shower, rather than the shave?


 

 in combination with Q-tips possibly


----------



## bfreedma

hifichris said:


> Though the following lines may sound ridiculous, I really mean it serious:
> 
> Yesterday, I completely cut off my mutton chops and shaved my head, then I showered and listened to the HD 800. Treble was clearly more prominent and the certain harshness some are talking about was suddenly there and the low range was less prominent. It's interesting how the bald area around my ears now makes such a difference compared to when I had mutton chops and head hair just before.
> I guess it's time now to regrow my facial and head hair again to get back the "body's natural Anaxilus mod".


 
  
 Not ridiculous at all.  IMO, one of the least discussed yet most significant variable in how we "hear" headphones is the seal between the headphone's pads and the listener.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Say John, glad to know we have natures Anax Mod. Now I will have to find a toupé and do some A/B testing!


----------



## HiFiChris

ruthieandjohn said:


> Could it have been the shower, rather than the shave?


 
  
 Haha, I guess not, as I shower frequently and my ears are in general very clean (I clean them frequently with Otowaxol ans have got quite straight and very clean ear canals, as an audiologist told me not much time ago, that's why my ear canals are quite clean and cerumen drains off easily).
 It's definitely due to the shave of my mutton chops and head as I my head hair had a length of about 1.5 inches and my mutton chops of propably 0.8 inches. I've never experienced treble harshness with my HD 800 before.
 Quite an interesting topic imo.
  
 By the way, Q-Tips shouldn't be used to cleaning your ear canals as they push cerumen even deeper towards your eardrum and may block your ear canals one day. You won't notice it until the day it happens and you are almost deaf on one side and need to go to see the audiologist to get that wax removed.


----------



## Dobrescu George

hifichris said:


> Haha, I guess not, as I shower frequently and my ears are in general very clean (I clean them frequently with Otowaxol ans have got quite straight and very clean ear canals, as an audiologist told me not much time ago, that's why my ear canals are quite clean and cerumen drains off easily).
> It's definitely due to the shave of my mutton chops and head as I my head hair had a length of about 1.5 inches and my mutton chops of propably 0.8 inches. I've never experienced treble harshness with my HD 800 before.
> Quite an interesting topic imo.
> 
> By the way, Q-Tips shouldn't be used to cleaning your ear canals as they push cerumen even deeper towards your eardrum and may block your ear canals one day. You won't notice it until the day it happens and you are almost deaf on one side and need to go to see the audiologist to get that wax removed.


 
 Q tips are great if they are wet with oxygen-water, or boricat alchool (strong alchool against ear disease) . They do clean the wax, and you do hear more treble after doing so. Sadly, the effect of hearing more treble wears out as the ear needs to cover the area again in wax, to keep itself from harm.


----------



## HiFiChris

Imo Otowaxol (or even water mixed with a little soap and medical alcohol which is quite the same as Otowaxol liquid) in combination with an ear wax removal syringe is the better solution as it doesn't push the earwax deeper into the ear canals.
 All of the otolaryngologist I know and even an IEM manufacturer I know don't support the usage of Q-Tips.
  
 Of course not everybody's ears produce the same amount of cerumen and not every ear canal has the same shape, so some people (like me) may not have much problems with clogged ear canals while some might.
  
 Impo Q-Tips aren't bad if you use them for removing a slight and soft layer of wax, just as you do, George, but some people have got rather big crumbs of cerumen in their ear canals and using Q-Tips will most likely push them deeeper and cause clogged ear canals. I've already heard of such cases where people wondered why one side of their ear got blocked despite using Q-Tips, which were the reason for it. Rinsing your ears with an ear wax removal syringe after softening the cerumen with a lotion of water, a little soap and medical alcohol (it can be bought as "Otowaxol" in Germany, I guess there's something similar available in other countries) is the better way of cleaning your ears.
 Going to an otolaryngologist the first time for a professional cleaning isn't the worst thing to do either. Some may already have slightly clogged ear canals, which one wouldn't notice before cleaning as the clogging process takes some time and the cerumen cloggs the ear canals spep by step so you don't even notice it. I know some people who had clogged ear canals and reported an improved high frequency perception after a professionally executed cleaning.


----------



## Moonhead

HD800 incoming


----------



## Moonhead

It has begun..


----------



## pearljam50000

How are you liking the sound so far


----------



## Moonhead

Ive had Them before, but forgot just how magical they are


----------



## kamalz

longbowbbs said:


> For me, sibilance or shrill highs with the HD800's are a result of either a poor recording or poor pairing with the rest of your gear. I am enjoying the HD800's, Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 DSDse and the ALO Audio Studio Six at the moment and it is revelatory. Incredible balance. Clean and clear across all frequencies.
> 
> Whenever I have been exposed to highs that were not good, making a change of either the amp or DAC (or a couple times a cable) cleared up the issue.
> 
> As always YMMV.


 
  
   Thru HD800,  i could tell my benchmark dac really shine nbs monitor zero powercord.


----------



## fudgebucket27

Okay Lads I need to know if it's worth upgrading from a HD700 to a HD800. My amp/dac is a WA7d with WA7tp currently. I don't really have a budget but I was wondering if it would be a significant upgrade. I do like the HD700s but I'm just looking for a change.


----------



## thecrow

fudgebucket27 said:


> Okay Lads I need to know if it's worth upgrading from a HD700 to a HD800. My amp/dac is a WA7d with WA7tp currently. I don't really have a budget but I was wondering if it would be a significant upgrade. I do like the HD700s but I'm just looking for a change.


I have never heard the hd700

The hd800s are quite unique as all reviews will tell you. Being on your radar they are definitely worth the listen to if you can get to them. 

And no matter how well they read, IMO, they are definitely ones to listen to and consider how they match up to you for the longer haul 

I personally love them and have no inclination to change them. At all.


----------



## fudgebucket27

thecrow said:


> I have never heard the hd700
> 
> The hd800s are quite unique as all reviews will tell you. Being on your radar they are definitely worth the listen to if you can get to them.
> 
> ...


 
 I could not audition the HD700 and I was not disappointed when they arrived. Anyhow, I'm a bit impatient and it it may have been an impulse buy but I have purchased the HD800. Should have them sometime next week


----------



## thecrow

fudgebucket27 said:


> I could not audition the HD700 and I was not disappointed when they arrived. Anyhow, I'm a bit impatient and it it may have been an impulse buy but I have purchased the HD800. Should have them sometime next week


Enjoy!!!


----------



## shabta

fudgebucket27 said:


> Okay Lads I need to know if it's worth upgrading from a HD700 to a HD800. My amp/dac is a WA7d with WA7tp currently. I don't really have a budget but I was wondering if it would be a significant upgrade. I do like the HD700s but I'm just looking for a change.


 
 Yes they will be a significant upgrade and will pair with your gear nicely...


----------



## koiloco

shabta said:


> Yes they will be a significant upgrade and will pair with your gear nicely...


 
 +1


----------



## ozz007

koiloco said:


> +1


 

 +2


----------



## fudgebucket27

I've been reading about the anax mod, but is it really necessary? I find the HD700 quite enjoyable even with it's so called 'hot treble'. My tubes seem to make things sound a tad warm as well. Is the HD800 much more sparkly?


----------



## BobFiggins

fudgebucket27 said:


> I've been reading about the anax mod, but is it really necessary? I find the HD700 quite enjoyable even with it's so called 'hot treble'. My tubes seem to make things sound a tad warm as well. Is the HD800 much more sparkly?


 
  
 Depends on what you mean by sparkly. The HD 800 is a bright headphone, but it doesn't seem to push itself into sibilance much, in comparison with the HD 700. I had to EQ the HD 700 by -8dB around 7k just to make it tolerable, and by the time it was tolerable the sound was very different. I can use the HD 800 without any EQ, and it's tolerable, even enjoyable. I personally use -0.5dB in the treble region to suit me, and there's pretty much no sibilance issues. A huge difference. I spend more time enjoying my music with the HD 800, rather than thinking "I need something to help alleviate the treble".
  
 I was bored one weekend, and bought all the materials for the Anax mod, both revisions. Spent a long time making it as good as I could, and was pretty excited to try it. While my opinion will differ from others, it removed the magic you get with the HD 800. That massively airy chamber of music around your ears feels muted. The imaging is still good, if not better without all the reflections, but it didn't seem awesome any more. It felt like a different headphone entirely to me, and not a better one. You may like it a lot, but I didn't, and removed it.


----------



## fudgebucket27

bobfiggins said:


> Depends on what you mean by sparkly. The HD 800 is a bright headphone, but it doesn't seem to push itself into sibilance much, in comparison with the HD 700. I had to EQ the HD 700 by -8dB around 7k just to make it tolerable, and by the time it was tolerable the sound was very different. I can use the HD 800 without any EQ, and it's tolerable, even enjoyable. I personally use -0.5dB in the treble region to suit me, and there's pretty much no sibilance issues. A huge difference. I spend more time enjoying my music with the HD 800, rather than thinking "I need something to help alleviate the treble".
> 
> I was bored one weekend, and bought all the materials for the Anax mod, both revisions. Spent a long time making it as good as I could, and was pretty excited to try it. While my opinion will differ from others, it removed the magic you get with the HD 800. That massively airy chamber of music around your ears feels muted. The imaging is still good, if not better without all the reflections, but it didn't seem awesome any more. It felt like a different headphone entirely to me, and not a better one. You may like it a lot, but I didn't, and removed it.


 
 Thanks for that mate. Well I guess I'll see how it sounds when it arrives anyways.


----------



## Arnotts

bobfiggins said:


> Depends on what you mean by sparkly. The HD 800 is a bright headphone, but it doesn't seem to push itself into sibilance much, in comparison with the HD 700. I had to EQ the HD 700 by -8dB around 7k just to make it tolerable, and by the time it was tolerable the sound was very different. I can use the HD 800 without any EQ, and it's tolerable, even enjoyable. I personally use -0.5dB in the treble region to suit me, and there's pretty much no sibilance issues. A huge difference. I spend more time enjoying my music with the HD 800, rather than thinking "I need something to help alleviate the treble".
> 
> I was bored one weekend, and bought all the materials for the Anax mod, both revisions. Spent a long time making it as good as I could, and was pretty excited to try it. While my opinion will differ from others, *it removed the magic you get with the HD 800. That massively airy chamber of music around your ears feels muted. *The imaging is still good, if not better without all the reflections, but it didn't seem awesome any more. It felt like a different headphone entirely to me, and not a better one. You may like it a lot, but I didn't, and removed it.


 
 Ha, that massive, airy chamber of music is the main reason I keep the HD800's


----------



## Alexalder

That massive airy chamber of music is just fake highs, comparable to Beat's fake bass. We can agree that it's a miracle of engineering, we can agree that they are great in mastering, but if you need some kind of heavy tube distortion or software eq then there's something wrong.


----------



## pearljam50000

lol


----------



## Dobrescu George

alexalder said:


> That massive airy chamber of music is just fake highs, comparable to Beat's fake bass. We can agree that it's a miracle of engineering, we can agree that they are great in mastering, but if you need some kind of heavy tube distortion or software eq then there's something wrong.


 
 I would not think like this,
  
 I listened to Hd800 the way they are from factory, and I love that sound!
  
 the treble is amazing, and is not fake. It is more close to real than you would belive at first thought. I mean, close to hearing a cymbal crash from the distance the mics were placed relative to the cymbals.


----------



## Alexalder

dobrescu george said:


> I would not think like this,
> 
> I listened to Hd800 the way they are from factory, and I love that sound!
> 
> the treble is amazing, and is not fake. It is more close to real than you would belive at first thought. I mean, close to hearing a cymbal crash from the distance the mics were placed relative to the cymbals.


 

 Yeah, the more artificial eq you put into a frequence the more it sound "close to you" than it would. That's BAD. Normal headphones already have a lot more highs than you're supposed to hear in a song, hd800 goes even further. I found that a lot of my song became unlistenable because of hissing


----------



## koiloco

fudgebucket27 said:


> I've been reading about the anax mod, but is it really necessary? I find the HD700 quite enjoyable even with it's so called 'hot treble'. My tubes seem to make things sound a tad warm as well. Is the HD800 much more sparkly?


 
 I've  personally never had any issue with the "hot treble".


----------



## koiloco

alexalder said:


> Yeah, the more artificial eq you put into a frequence the more it sound "close to you" than it would. That's BAD. Normal headphones already have a lot more highs than you're supposed to hear in a song, hd800 goes even further. I found that a lot of my song became unlistenable because of hissing


 
 Either you are not explaining your points as you'd like to, or I have a hard time understanding you.  Comparing HD800's high to Beats' bloated bass is not a good comparison at all.  Yes, we all have different hearing but when it comes to HD800, IMO, most HD800 owners would not agree with your analogy.  Years of recording and mixing has taught me that it's amazing what you normally don't hear in a song until you have a piece of equipment that affords you those details.  Judging from an audience's perspective/positioning, yes, you probably won't hear all these minute details in a song but If you are part of the musicians performing, you will be hearing a lot more.  I am with the 2nd group. Overall, what you said is not incorrect but not correct either.  Life is a continuous educational journey, right?


----------



## Alexalder

koiloco said:


> Either you are not explaining your points as you'd like to, or I have a hard time understanding you.  Comparing HD800's high to Beats' bloated bass is not a good comparison at all.  Yes, we all have different hearing but when it comes to HD800, IMO, most HD800 owners would not agree with your analogy.  Years of recording and mixing has taught me that it's amazing what you normally don't hear in a song until you have a piece of equipment that affords you those details.  Judging from an audience's perspective/positioning, yes, you probably won't hear all these minute details in a song but If you are part of the musicians performing, you will be hearing a lot more.  I am with the 2nd group. Overall, what you said is not incorrect but not correct either.  Life is a continuous educational journey, right?


 

 Yeah, if you have bad earing the hd800 will reveal a lot of highs you could not hear before, but we can't judge headphones basing ourselves on our own hearing. If in some mysterious ways i could not hear bass anymore i could find Beats balanced? Then what?


----------



## Rayzilla

koiloco said:


> I've  personally never had any issue with the "hot treble".




Same here!

I posted this on the HE1000 and the LCD-XC threads because I have been considering them but I guess it would have been appropriate to post it here too. I hope you don't mind the multiple posting if you are subscribed in those threads too:

"I kind of agree with all your points except I think the HD800 is faster overall, more responsive, sharper attacks etc. I also think the mids and treble differences are pretty equivocal." (rrahman's post)

From my brief 45 minute listen of the HE1000 side by side with the HD 800 on the Questyle CMA800i, I agree with what you say. I was quite underwhelmed by the HE1000 but I think it has more to do with my personal sound signature preference than the performance of the HPs themselves. I think at this level, it is mostly a personal preference thing as we all stake our claims. I have no problems at all with the so called sibilance issues that some experience. My gut feeling is that others in that situation might prefer the 800 over the 1000 and vice versa. If you are lucky, your preference will be towards the 800 since you will save yourself $1500 or even more if you pick up a mint used pair. I am lucky to be in this camp so far but I will give the 1000 another listen before making my final decision.

I posted this in the LCD-XC thread because I am considering it as well:

I have already told my significant other that I am planning to make a big purchase in the area of HP/Amp after witnessing her making big purchases in work clothes and high heel shoes. I just sat there for about 2 hours, patiently letting her try on dress after dress and then dropping down about HK$20,000 (US$2,600) and then brought home another two pairs of shoes for about another HK$3,000 (US$400). So the other day I casually mentioned that I am planning to make an amp purchase for about HK$2X,xxx.

So my options are (in order of likeliness):

1) An amp to run my HD 800 and the new addition LCD-XC. There is a retailer here in Hong Kong selling the BHA-1 and LCD-XC combo for HK$24,000 (US$3,100) but I would like to try the Ragnarok first. If I can buy the LCD-XC in Toronto for less because of the low $CDN, I might go for it and then purchase the Ragnarok or Questyle CMA800i here in Hong Kong.

2) Go for a TOTL tube amp like a used Eddie Current. But this means that I will not be able to get the LCD-XC. frown.gif

3) Go for the HifiMan HE1000 or wait for the TOTL Sennheisser that will be replacing the HD 800 in the future. But I gave the HE1000 a 45 minute listen side by side with the HD 800 and to be honest, I was not impressed. There were a few things better about the HE 1000 but the things that I liked about the HD 800 outweigh the HE1000 in my opinion. So hopefully there will be more news trickling out on the HD 1000 (?) in the next little while.

BTW, there are no sales taxes or import duties in HK.

Any word out on the HD 1000 yet?


----------



## Moonhead

I honestly believe that HD800 treble is a lot more natural than Stax 009 and Im not into EQ or tubes at all, problem is that headphones does not provide Room acoustics which tame the highs a bit. 
HD800 Can be fatiguing if you listen at High volume, I surely dont.


----------



## TMRaven

I think everything in the HD800 treble range is tolerable and well balanced, but the 6khz region is elevated and etched.  By etched, I mean it gives the HD800 a hardness to its sound in its transient attacks.  This is also compounded by the fact that the HD800 seemingly needs high volume levels to come 'alive' from my experience with it, it's very much like the LCD series in that regard. The 6khz region does need taming, rather it's via EQ or damping modification-- or both.  Besides the hardness at 6khz, everything else about the HD800 treble is well controlled, the likes of which is better quality than most any other headphone on the market.  Both bjective measurements and subjective impressions back that up.


----------



## pearljam50000

Can you do more comparisons with 009?
Thanks!


moonhead said:


> I honestly believe that HD800 treble is a lot more natural than Stax 009 and Im not into EQ or tubes at all, problem is that headphones does not provide Room acoustics which tame the highs a bit.
> HD800 Can be fatiguing if you listen at High volume, I surely dont.


----------



## Moonhead

Sorry.. They are long gone.


----------



## bearFNF

I know you did not ask me, but... here it is anyway...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 To me the 009 is smoother and never harsh. The HD800 is crisp and can tend to be edgy?? I guess that's the word I am looking for.
 I have never had an issue with the treble on either one of them. I am tending to listen to the 009 more now than the HD800.  But still go back and forth depending on mood and music.
  


pearljam50000 said:


> Can you do more comparisons with 009?
> Thanks!


----------



## Liu Junyuan

Rayzilla

Tough call. The answer depends on if you are feeling you need an alternative transducer to complement your HD800. It sounds like you yearn for a planar driver for variety's sake.If you already like the HD800 better than the HEK, option 2 in your list sounds best to me. Zana Deux has been recently upgraded as well, or the DNA Stratus might also be a great option if you don't want to go right to the top of EC's offerings.

You could also upgrade your DAC in addition to your amp. I am in a similar situation of decision-making as you. Probably will go DAC and amp, from Schiit and the mid of EC accordingly. Best of luck on your audio journey.


----------



## Sorrodje

@Rayzilla : Did you try the LCD-XC ?  What is your current System for the HD800 and what Music do you listen mostly ?


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks  
That's pretty impressive for the HD800 considering they cost only 1500$ and are dynamic.


bearfnf said:


> I know you did not ask me, but... here it is anyway...
> To me the 009 is smoother and never harsh. The HD800 is crisp and can tend to be edgy?? I guess that's the word I am looking for.
> I have never had an issue with the treble on either one of them. I am tending to listen to the 009 more now than the HD800.  But still go back and forth depending on mood and music.


----------



## Moonhead

And i just Got My new pair for 923 Euro


----------



## Buddhahacker

alexalder said:


> That massive airy chamber of music is just fake highs, comparable to Beat's fake bass. We can agree that it's a miracle of engineering, we can agree that they are great in mastering, but if you need some kind of heavy tube distortion or software eq then there's something wrong.


 
 Sigh.  They highs are not fake.  Folks use eq for all sorts of reasons so it is ridiculous to state that any headphone is wrong/bad because they choose to use eq. Stop trying to bait people into an argument.


----------



## JamieMcC

There are some real tubes bashers about which is sad really that such bias will never let them consider something like Bottleheads Mainline amp with which the HD800 are exquisite.


----------



## ubs28

moonhead said:


> I honestly believe that HD800 treble is a lot more natural than Stax 009 and Im not into EQ or tubes at all, problem is that headphones does not provide Room acoustics which tame the highs a bit.
> HD800 Can be fatiguing if you listen at High volume, I surely dont.


 
  
 I think most people mistake the clarity of the HD800 with being excessively bright. An example is the Shure SE846 that sounds more brighter than what the frequency plots indicate due it's clarity and transparency.


----------



## Moonhead

Yupp Im with you on that one, mate


----------



## Alexalder

buddhahacker said:


> Sigh.  They highs are not fake.  Folks use eq for all sorts of reasons so it is ridiculous to state that any headphone is wrong/bad because they choose to use eq. Stop trying to bait people into an argument.


 

 I never said that, i use eq myself to tame the LCD2F 11kHz peak, i'm just saying that hd800 makes a lot of songs unbearable because of the loud hissing in vocals and fake highs on cimbals, using solid state transparent amps at least. I never said it has no details or a small soundstage, i liked these things but i couldn't use it for everyday listening.
 Maybe i'm too young and i still hear high frequencies louder than usual, i don't know


----------



## koiloco

alexalder said:


> Yeah, if you have bad earing the hd800 will reveal a lot of highs you could not hear before, but we can't judge headphones basing ourselves on our own hearing. If in some mysterious ways i could not hear bass anymore i could find Beats balanced? Then what?


 
 Dude, whatever!  I'd like to stop here cuz this discussion is not going to go anywhere productive.  As several HD800 owners have stated above, you should get a clear idea of what we mean about HD800's high.  I'll chalk this one down for communicating on different frequencies.  Peace out...


----------



## koiloco

buddhahacker said:


> Sigh.  They highs are not fake.  Folks use eq for all sorts of reasons so it is ridiculous to state that any headphone is wrong/bad because they choose to use eq. Stop trying to bait people into an argument.


 
 +1


----------



## koiloco

jamiemcc said:


> There are some real tubes bashers about which is sad really that such bias will never let them consider something like Bottleheads Mainline amp with which the HD800 are exquisite.


 
 +1


----------



## Dobrescu George

alexalder said:


> I never said that, i use eq myself to tame the LCD2F 11kHz peak, i'm just saying that hd800 makes a lot of songs unbearable because of the loud hissing in vocals and fake highs on cimbals, using solid state transparent amps at least. I never said it has no details or a small soundstage, i liked these things but i couldn't use it for everyday listening.
> Maybe i'm too young and i still hear high frequencies louder than usual, i don't know


 
 I think that I am one of the youngest in here, I am 20. I loved the treble of Hd800, so real and full of energy. 
  
 But again, I used to drum, and after hearing a cymbal crash for the first time in life, in close quarters, without protection, there is no going back to smooth treble headphones. I love the energy and life that is in the treble of Hd800.
  
 Though, I could see why some people would love other headphones and signatures, as sometimes when I am very sleepy I preffer a laid back signature, with some downtempo music, or easy classical.


----------



## whirlwind

dobrescu george said:


> alexalder said:
> 
> 
> > I never said that, i use eq myself to tame the LCD2F 11kHz peak, i'm just saying that hd800 makes a lot of songs unbearable because of the loud hissing in vocals and fake highs on cimbals, using solid state transparent amps at least. I never said it has no details or a small soundstage, i liked these things but i couldn't use it for everyday listening.
> ...


 
 Me too......I just love this can, stock.....it kills it with the blues, imho.
  
 Can't wait to get my amp from Glenn and to hear the combo.


----------



## mikoss

Shame on the people who say the only reason to get the HD-800's is for classical music... how wrong they are.
  
 As for tubes, I agree the BH Mainline with the 800's is a great combo. The Zana Deux driving them is also very effing nice.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

mikoss said:


> Shame on the people who say the only reason to get the HD-800's is for classical music... how wrong they are.
> 
> As for tubes, I agree the BH Mainline with the 800's is a great combo. The Zana Deux driving them is also very effing nice.




I agree that classical is far from the only genre these handle well. I like them with all types of well recorded/mastered music.

Although there are more expensive amps that jive well with the HD800, I have been very much enjoying them through the LF 339 using NOS Svetlana 6N13S power tubes and Tungsol/RCA 6SJ7WGT drivers.


----------



## skeptic

mikoss said:


> Shame on the people who say the only reason to get the HD-800's is for classical music... how wrong they are.
> 
> As for tubes, I agree the BH Mainline with the 800's is a great combo. The Zana Deux driving them is also very effing nice.


 
  
 Totally agree!  Hd800's will sing with either of these amps with just about any genre you throw at them.


----------



## pearljam50000

I bought them and i don't listen to Classical at all.


----------



## Sorrodje

pearljam50000 said:


> I bought them and i don't listen to Classical at all.


 
  
 It's not a reason to encourage everyone to do the same mistake.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 Just Kidding


----------



## Dobrescu George

pearljam50000 said:


> I bought them and i don't listen to Classical at all.


 
 Classical is great if you fiind your flavor for it. 
  
 As I come from metal music, I fiind fast and complicated classical songs, and some sad classical songs exactly on spot. Like every genere, classical has many types of itself, and you can also fiind a great classical artist that you will like!


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks!
Can you recommend a few Classical album?


dobrescu george said:


> Classical is great if you fiind your flavor for it.
> 
> As I come from metal music, I fiind fast and complicated classical songs, and some sad classical songs exactly on spot. Like every genere, classical has many types of itself, and you can also fiind a great classical artist that you will like!


----------



## Dobrescu George

Sure!
  
 I will post alphabetically, as I really have them sorted this way, and it would take much longer sorting by how much I like the bands. 
  
 Adam Hurst - discography - simple and sad
 ensemble 45 - Boccherini - 2000 - quintets with double bass - a little more complicated music, very lively!
 clogs - discography - post classical, I really dig the thing, gives a very immersive experience with exotic instruments. 
 BBC philarmonic - George Enescu - 1996 - symphony no 1 suite no 3 - All enescu works are extremely intriguing, compared to most classical
 Luiza Borac - 2003 - George Enescu - The Three Piano suites
 Matei Varga - 2010 - george enescu - Piano suite no 1, suite no 2
 Phillip glass , Steve Reich - 2004 - Music 4 hands
 Glass and Reich - 2013 - Metamorphosis & Acoustic Counterpoint
 Havasi balasz and Endi - 2011 - Freedom - it is a piano and drum project. Came out brilliantly
 James Galway - The greatest hits - RCA Red Seal best 100 
 Klazz Brothers & Cuba Percussion - 2013 - Classic meets Cuba II
 Mary Oleskiewicz, Concerto Armonico, Miklos Spanyi - Quantz - Flute Concertos - 2013
 Patrick Gallois, Maria Prinz - Mozart - Violin Sonatas arranged for flute & piano - 2013
 rodrigo and Gabriela - Discography - they sound awesome!
 Scarlatti works in general are wonderfull!
 sherban Lupu - Arta Lautarilor - 2003 - A great collection of classical folk songs from Romania. It is different from what most would expect
 Tim Janis - 2005 - Lighthouse Piano Collection - it is quite a sad and melodic album...
  
  
 P.S. I come from a metal blackground, so most of these have more live in them and are not your typical classical music, but it is where I found my comfort around classical music. I still listen a good deal of metal


----------



## JaZZ

pearljam50000 said:


> Can you recommend a few Classical albums?


 
  
_Henri Dutilleux:_ «Complete Orchestral Works» (4 CDs), Chandos CHAN 9853(4)
_Alfred Schnittke:_ «4. Concerto grosso/5. Sinfonie, Pianissimo», BIS CD-427
_Conlon Nancarrow:_ «Studies», RCA Victor Red Seal 09026 61180 2
  
 These are contemporary composers. No idea if you'd like the music, but it's very special.


----------



## pearljam50000

Thank you both!!!
I appreciate it very much 
Now I have a ton of stuff to listen to.


----------



## Dobrescu George

jazz said:


> _Henri Dutilleux:_ «Complete Orchestral Works» (4 CDs), Chandos CHAN 9853(4)
> *Alfred Schnittke: «4. Concerto grosso/5. Sinfonie, Pianissimo», BIS CD-427*
> _Conlon Nancarrow:_ «Studies», RCA Victor Red Seal 09026 61180 2
> 
> These are contemporary composers. No idea if you'd like the music, but it's very special.


 
 I had fast checked this one in youtube, because it is close to my bedtime, and I do not have time to investigate further today.
  
 It is quite interesting. I also like this one, I will look into the rest of your recommandations sometime later this week, I think that my classical collection will groe bigger.


----------



## cocolinho

pearljam50000 said:


> I bought them and i don't listen to Classical at all.


 
  
 same here


----------



## Sorrodje

cocolinho said:


> same here


 
  
 Now I have your Vali. Wha't the differences with your current Valhalla 2 ? 
  
 Third time I buy a Vali. Will use it while I'm waiting my Stratus.


----------



## BobFiggins

Every time I back my chair up I have to look out of paranoia. Stock cable is so long!


----------



## Dobrescu George

bobfiggins said:


> Every time I back my chair up I have to look out of paranoia. Stock cable is so long!


 
 My floor is usually full of cables.
  
 I feel compelled to ask, why do you care? I do suspect that Hd800 cables could whitstand more than just a chair, they look so durable, that I can actually excuse the fact that the length is enough to walk around or headbang with them on.


----------



## BobFiggins

dobrescu george said:


> I feel compelled to ask, why do you care? I do suspect that Hd800 cables could whitstand more than just a chair, they look so durable, that I can actually excuse the fact that the length is enough to walk around or headbang with them on.


 
  
 Normally when I'm pushing my chair back it's because I'm getting up. I've actually rolled over the cable a few times with an older headset, then stood up and the cable was snagged, and tore the headset off my face. After those times, I am careful to avoid that.


----------



## Dobrescu George

bobfiggins said:


> Normally when I'm pushing my chair back it's because I'm getting up. I've actually rolled over the cable a few times with an older headset, then stood up and the cable was snagged, and tore the headset off my face. After those times, I am careful to avoid that.


 
 That would be a paintfull situation. 
  
 I am happy that the cables themselves are pretty resistant to damage.


----------



## Moonhead

Just Buy a shorter cable 

http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/category.php?id_category=36


----------



## HiFiChris

Or you could just place the cable behind or next to your desk, or dismount the wheels so it stays in place.


----------



## BobFiggins

Kind of posted that picture as a joke. Didn't expect to be getting so much advice. Already planned on buying a new cable this month. It's always been on the back of my mind, how long it is and how close it gets to the bottom of my chair, but never a problem.


----------



## Taowolf51

hifichris said:


> Or you could just place the cable behind or next to your desk,


 
  
 This is what I do. The cable comes out of the amp, back behind my main monitor, behind my headphone stand, and around. Never had any cable issues!


----------



## Arnotts

I'm considering selling the HD800's. They have their uses - a tool to analyse the mix and occasionally a headphone for enjoying an incredibly airy, separated presentation of music. The novelty of the HD800's presentation wears off half way through most songs. They don't seem to get enough head time for me to justify keeping them.
  
 LCD-X's are still very good for analysing music and are significantly better for lasting musical enjoyment. I would say almost all of my other headphones are better for all-round, lasting musical enjoyment.
  
 The only reason I haven't sold them yet is that occasionally I DO want their signature sound. I'm also throwing around the idea of getting a tube amp like the Valhalla 2, but I'm not sure how much of a difference this would make... It would add some soul/musicality, but would it add enough to bring it in line with all of my other headphones?
  
 Thoughts?


----------



## Moonhead

I have not listen to LCD-X, but have tried LCD3 and my guess is that they are somewhat more relaxed. 
 If you what pinpoint accuracy, massive soundstage, easy to use and good comfort, then keep HD800.
  
 I found them superior for electronica, not even 009 could chance that, not so much for rock, they can easily play that genre, but some cans are just better for that and others adore them for rock, so there will always be different opinions luckily. 
  
  
 In the end its only you than there can decide..
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGIFublvDes


----------



## BobFiggins

arnotts said:


> Thoughts?


 
  
 While I didn't use it with the HD 800, so my opinion might be a bit lacking, I did use the Valhalla 2 with the HD 700. It gave so much energy to the presentation of the music. Everything felt so alive and electric compared to other tube amps. Everything felt a little bit closer and exciting. Electric guitars when strummed felt like they were actually next to you.
  
 Literally the only reason I ended up returning it, was I listen to a lot of drum & bass, and it made the 700 very, very punchy and in your face. It was too much for me. I'm seriously debating getting one again with my 800. I don't listen to as much drum & bass any more, so it could possibly be the best amp for me. I have yet to hear any other amp that makes me as happy as that made me.


----------



## jsgraha

If you are happy with LCD-X, yes, I think you should sell hd800. Imo, hd800 is a money pit for equipment upgrade, best to stop now if you enjoy a phone like LCD-X which are easy to match.

On the other hand, I just sold my X. I found it stop scalling since I upgrade my amp about two years ago. Even now, with my current upgrade to schiit dac from audio-gd ref7, I found the improvement not as much as I hope for. It just become a ok phone to listen  while listening to 800 become a main event. it's like the singer and instruments just pop up in front of me ...


----------



## JaZZ

arnotts said:


> I'm considering selling the HD800's. They have their uses - a tool to analyse the mix and occasionally a headphone for enjoying an incredibly airy, separated presentation of music. The novelty of the HD800's presentation wears off half way through most songs. They don't seem to get enough head time for me to justify keeping them.
> 
> LCD-X's are still very good for analysing music and are significantly better for lasting musical enjoyment. I would say almost all of my other headphones are better for all-round, lasting musical enjoyment.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can understand your ambivalence. To me the HD 800 would be too bright in the long run without modification. I strongly recommend it. It allows for a quite difference experience.


----------



## potkettleblack

There's nothing relaxed about the LCD x's.


----------



## HiFiChris

^^^
  
 Imo the LCD-X (which I also own) is definitely relaxed sounding (though not as much as the other Audez'e cans) due to the recessed lower treble.


----------



## TMRaven

I thought the LCD-X was too relaxed sounding as well whenI had it.  It has even less upper-midrange/lower treble than the LCD2/3, but the mid-treble makes up for that somewhat.


----------



## TMRaven

The HD800 actually has a mild depression in its presence region in the upper midrange-lower treble.  That region (3-5khz) is where a lot of the harmonics for acoustic instruments, and the snap of percussion is, it's what I consider to carry most of the energy in the audio range.
  
 In that sense, I find the midrange of the HD800 a little laid-back in of itself, but LCD-X is way more extreme in that regard.  HD650 and HD600 are actually quite full in that region, thus quite snappy.  They don't quite have the mid-upper treble presence though.
  
 That's just the way I personally hear things.


----------



## Dobrescu George

potkettleblack said:


> I would consider the hd650 and the SRH-1540 relaxed sounding. Not the lcd x.


 
  
 I think that I would agree with you. Hd650 is one of the most relaxed sounds I heared. I think that I only heared LCD-XC which should be the closed version for X, and for me, it was quite relaxed. Not hd650 smooth, but neither hd800. I could relax with XC, if it were not for the weight, which made even the sound heavy.


----------



## fudgebucket27

So they finally came in today!! I've only had it for about an hour but I gotta say HD800 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HD700. The difference is crazy. The soundstage is so expansive!! The bass is perfect, I did not expect this much bass.The mids and highs are amazing as well. I honestly can not hear much sibilance if at all with the genres I have been playing so far. Very pleased at the moment. She seems to like the Wa7 and Wa7tp


----------



## thecrow

fudgebucket27 said:


> So they finally came in today!! I've only had it for about an hour but I gotta say HD800 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HD700. The difference is crazy. The soundstage is so expansive!! The bass is perfect, I did not expect this much bass.The mids and highs are amazing as well. I honestly can not hear much sibilance if at all with the genres I have been playing so far. Very pleased at the moment. She seems to like the Wa7 and Wa7tp


Fantastic


----------



## HiFiChris

Imo neither is correct as there is no absolute opinion and everybody's perception of sound is different. If someone says that the LCD-X doesn't sound relaxed, it is *his/her* perception. Only because others may disagree doesn't mean that it isn't true for that person. As ear anatomy, hair, HRTF, mood, personal tastes and preferences play an important role a single headphone won't sound identical for everyone.
  
  
 At least I can say that (compared to the neutral Etymotic ER-4S and almost neutral UERM) *to me* the HD 800 has a moderately recessed midrange, as well as moderately emphasised highs and a hump in the bass region, whereas the LCD-X has got the more full-bodied sound signature with evenly emhasised bass and ground tone, prominent midrange which is rather on the dark side, as well as a recessed presence area. That's what_* I *_perceive.


----------



## Moonhead

Old new, but to those who loves the Blues be sure to check out..
  
 Muddy Waters - Folk Singer
  
 Mesmerizing with HD800


----------



## rogerthatmand

moonhead said:


> Old new, but to those who loves the Blues be sure to check out..
> 
> Muddy Waters - Folk Singer
> 
> Mesmerizing with HD800


 
  
 I know exactly what you're talking about


----------



## heart banger-97

hifichris said:


> Imo neither is correct as there is no absolute opinion and everybody's perception of sound is different. If someone says that the LCD-X doesn't sound relaxed, it is *his/her* perception. Only because others may disagree doesn't mean that it isn't true for that person. As ear anatomy, hair, HRTF, mood, personal tastes and preferences play an important role a single headphone won't sound identical for everyone.
> 
> 
> At least I can say that (compared to the neutral Etymotic ER-4S and almost neutral UERM) *to me* the HD 800 has a moderately recessed midrange, as well as moderately emphasised highs and a hump in the bass region, whereas the LCD-X has got the more full-bodied sound signature with evenly emhasised bass and ground tone, prominent midrange which is rather on the dark side, as well as a recessed presence area. That's what_* I *_perceive.


 
  That was my problem too.
  
 Quote:


heart banger-97 said:


> I think that my problem is with the way that they present music especially in the mid and upper mid (in comparison of my westone 4r+75ohm resistance). I feel there is a thin mask between me and the guitar or cymbals. Music is not as aggressive as I like. Maybe it's the hd800 that I'm listening to is defective (its SN is 8XXX) or maybe I accustomed to inear's sound too much.
> I used different songs from guitar centric (like Joe Satriani) to drum centric (like Tool) to good mastered (like Porcupine Tree)


 
 That was why I went to T1 and it was better for me.
 Quote:


heart banger-97 said:


> Honestly, I was in this point too. Deciding between T1, HD800, HE560 is a hard choice. Especially for someone like me who accustomed too much to w4r and sony z1000 midrange.
> I tried hd800 for 2 days, but honestly, I couldn't get connection to it. Then I went to T1 and it was a better choice.
> I can n't compare them in depth. But, my main problem was that they were not focused in the midrange and I couldn't get emotionally involved with their midrange.
> I found their midrange not clear enough. I felt that there was a thin skin between me and their midrange. What I've found very interesting, is that a dip in 500hz (and peak at 3khz) can remove that feeling.


----------



## mikoss

I don't find the midrange to be recessed myself... where the HD-650's bring about a warm, holographic midrange with a good OTL amp, the HD-800's replace midrange warmth with tonal accuracy. I do agree that the HD-800's tend to have an emphasis on treble (especially stock), however modded, they sound fairly linear to me. Driving the 800's from the Zana Deux, I am certainly satisfied with the accuracy and warmth... I think they can sound much different depending on the source. For a lot of genres, I prefer the 800's imaging to the 650's magical mids.
  
 As for preferring the T1's; I personally prefer the DT-880's. I think Beyer produced a fairly neutral sounding headphone with the 880... I don't know what they were after with the T1.


----------



## listen4joy

i think hd800 is not  evaluated enough. look among the high end headphones its the most popular headphone its has 1278 pages in headfi. its got in 2009.
7 years old and still kicking and fighting this newer high end headphones (dharma, mr speakers ether, lcd, hifiman stax and on and on... 7 years, maybe its no longer the "king" but still very exellent all arounder and give hard fight to all this new players around. kudos to Sennheiser  i love my hd 800 (-:
with proer amp like dna stratus it will give fight even  hifiman he-1000.


----------



## ubs28

tmraven said:


> The HD800 actually has a mild depression in its presence region in the upper midrange-lower treble.  That region (3-5khz) is where a lot of the harmonics for acoustic instruments, and the snap of percussion is, it's what I consider to carry most of the energy in the audio range.
> 
> In that sense, I find the midrange of the HD800 a little laid-back in of itself, but LCD-X is way more extreme in that regard.  HD650 and HD600 are actually quite full in that region, thus quite snappy.  They don't quite have the mid-upper treble presence though.
> 
> That's just the way I personally hear things.


 

 The HD800 sounds a bit little warm due that small dip (and a small peak in the treble region), no energy is lost in my opinion. It's actually quite pleasant.


----------



## Arnotts

Thanks to everyone that offered advice on whether I should stick with the HD800's or not.
  
 I've decided to pick up a Valhalla 2 as well as a balanced cable to drive them balanced from the M-DAC (to use when I feel like using my reference system).
  
 Gustard X12 + Valhalla 2 ---> HD800's
  
 VS
  
 Audiolab M-DAC ---> balanced outputs ---> LCD-X's
  
 Should be interesting to see which setup I prefer. The M-DAC and LCD-X combo is absolutely amazing.
  
 I might also pick up a pair of HD650's, depending on how much I enjoy the DT880's from the Valhalla 2 compared to the Gustard H10.


----------



## potkettleblack




----------



## pearljam50000

I'm thinking on getting the Apogee Groove as a DAC/amp for my HD800, but i'm not sure if it is powerful enough, can anyone tell me if it is enogh for the HD800?!
Specs:
Features:
USB 2.0 connection to Mac and PC
Up to 24 bit / 192kHz audio
ESS Sabre DAC
Enhances your iTunes, Tidal, Spotify, Pandora or other music listening experiences
Constant Current Drive™ provides smooth frequency response with any headphones
Quad Sum DAC™, 4 DACs per channel for highest dynamic range and lowest distortion
Asynchronous clocking
Multi-color LEDs for status and level indication
Powered by USB
Top panel buttons adjust and mute volume
Compact and portable (95mm L x 30mm W x 16mm H)
Premium aluminum build quality
Built in the USA
D/A conversion :
THD+N: -107 dB with 600 Ohm load @ 16 dBu
(-109 dB with 600 Ohm load @ 16 dBu-Anniversary Edition)
THD+N: -100dB with 30 Ohm load @ 10.5 dBu
(-101dB with 30 Ohm load @ 10.5 dBu-Anniversary Edition)
Dynamic Range: 117dB a-weighted
(119dB a-weighted-Anniversary Edition)
Frequency response: 10Hz – 20K +/- 0.2dB
(10Hz – 20K +/- 0.1dB-Anniversary Edition)
Max output level:
225mW into 30 Ohm
40mW into 600 Ohm
8 channel ESS DAC (4 DACs per channel)


----------



## skeptic

Per your question, in terms of power alone, it has more than enough to hit 115db peaks (although not with huge amounts to spare like most desktop amps would).

On the whole though, I suspect you could do much better for the same money. Do you really need a portable solution? What in particular is drawing you to the apogee product?


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks!
I want the Groove because i belive pro studio gear is always better than "Hi-Fi" and also i like the form factor and being able to move my laptop to different locations with no problem, unlike with a desktop DAC+amp, but i am not 100% sure about it.
How do you think i can do better with the same money?
Thanks


----------



## Sorrodje

How much money are we talking about? For what use? Sedentary or on the go?


----------



## koiloco

pearljam50000 said:


> Thanks!
> I want the Groove because *i belive pro studio gear is always better than "Hi-Fi"* and also i like the form factor and being able to move my laptop to different locations with no problem, unlike with a desktop DAC+amp, but i am not 100% sure about it.
> How do you think i can do better with the same money?
> Thanks


 
 I have used a fair share of pro studio recording, mixing, DAC, and other equipment.  I can tell you that these days, IMO, your statement might not hold true as often as it used to.  For other HPs, I would say give it a try but for HD800, don't.  I just compared the HD800 on my WA22 vs Roland Octa-Capture.  The SQ from the Roland was actually surprisingly pleasant.  I never use Apogee products so I am not sure how they are in comparison to Roland products which are usually known to be quite clean and smooth.


----------



## pearljam50000

300$-350$
I just don't want to be stuck at one desk and be able to move from room to room(not take outside the house)
I currently have a Geek Out 720 but not sure about the synergy.


sorrodje said:


> How much money are we talking about? For what use? Sedentary or on the go?


----------



## Sorrodje

pearljam50000 said:


> 300$-350$
> I just don't want to be stuck at one desk and be able to move from room to room(not take outside the house)
> I currently have a Geek Out 720 but not sure about the synergy.


 
  
 Keep your GO750 for when you want to move and buy a Modi/Vali  for your Desk.


----------



## pearljam50000

OK thanks


----------



## Sorrodje

Maybe you can even do better... keep your GO720 for mobility and use it as dac on your desk and put your money in the amp : Bottlehead crack or Valhalla 2 or Whatever your want.


----------



## thecrow

pearljam50000 said:


> OK thanks


I thought you ordered the vali or valhalla a few months ago. And then u were thinking of the matrix m stage. 2 fine options at the price. 
Or even though O2 (that I use around the house).


----------



## screwdriver

im missing the sennheiser hd800 sound - i might try to borrow one and try it out on my f1J speaker taps .
 when i owned one before it was better than the lcdx and lcd3 with the right amp - the best it sounded for me in my gear was with the alo studio six with csp3 preamp . out of the csp3 alone it has a holographic sound with the right tubes and very enjoyable as well , out of the valhalla 2 it was ok .


----------



## skeptic

sorrodje said:


> Maybe you can even do better... keep your GO720 for mobility and use it as dac on your desk and put your money in the amp : Bottlehead crack or Valhalla 2 or Whatever your want.


 
  
 Totally agree with Sorrodje's recommendation.  Except, I might be inclined to go torpedo over crack if you are contemplating the affordable diy tube route.  Hd800's bass response does lose detail (but gains amplitude) as a result of crack's high output impedance, so a baby parafeed amp, with output transformers (same basic topology as mainline and l-2) may be preferable to some, but probably not all, listeners. 
  
 Alternatively, the new diy version of Pete Millet's Butte is also an intriguing option for budget solid state.  The commercial version used to go for $500, but the parts, including case through Pete's store are less than $150  (http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-beauty-pete-milletts-butte-headphone-amp)  Thinking I may build one of these myself sometime soon just because.


----------



## TsukiNick

I wish Sennheiser used Mini-XLR instead of their weird connectors.  It would be so much more rugged and I could use one cable for multiple headphones.

 Does anyone know if they make a female HD800 connector for attaching to a cable.  Like let's say I wanted to use the HD800 cable with my Audeze LCD-2s is there something that will work for that?  Or would the only way be to butcher the HD800 cable and turn it into a XLR cable and use some of the length of the Senn connector to solder an XLR?  (I'd probably be too scared to do that seeing how the cable is like $200+ to replace.)


----------



## earthpeople

I've seen a few female HD800 connectors but they were all panel mount type if I'm remembering correctly. You might have some luck if you search deeper than I did.


----------



## akhyar

tsukinick said:


> I wish Sennheiser used Mini-XLR instead of their weird connectors.  It would be so much more rugged and I could use one cable for multiple headphones.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if they make a female HD800 connector for attaching to a cable.  Like let's say I wanted to use the HD800 cable with my Audeze LCD-2s is there something that will work for that?  Or would the only way be to butcher the HD800 cable and turn it into a XLR cable and use some of the length of the Senn connector to solder an XLR?  (I'd probably be too scared to do that seeing how the cable is like $200+ to replace.)




I came across those cable adapters, i.e. one end with HD800 connectors, another end with mini XLR etc so that you can use your existing LCD cable or HifiMan cable on the HD800.
Try browsing some of the cable makers website like Double Helic, Norne Audio, Plussound, etc if they offer this adapter


----------



## Moonhead

This is very Intersting reading from Sennheiser Axel Grell.

http://www.cnet.com/news/a-headphone-buyers-guide-to-specifications/


----------



## Rumiho

Has anyone tried the HD 800's paired with both the Valhalla 2/ Bifrost Uber and the Mjlonir/Gungir combos? I'm finally picking up a pair of HD 800's and just acquired the Valhalla/Bifrost combo but have extra money available to upgrade at least one tier if its worth it. If not I'll just get a new monitor and some cables.
  
 Also has anyone heard the HD 800's paired with the BMC Puredac ?


----------



## Moonhead

I havnet tried Valhalla, but Mjolnir/Gungnir is a Hugh pile of crap with HD800.. Way way to bright to even be considered neutral, IMO. 
And I know I'm not the only one hating Mjolnir with HD800, lots of people in here share the same opinion. 

Should be good with Audeze which obviously lacks treble.

Skip the cable and get a good active monitor


----------



## pearljam50000

Speaking of active monitors.
An interesting comparison of Genelec 8030 and HD800.
https://youtu.be/63eg4YUZNDo


----------



## HiFiChris

^^^
  
 This seems to be a very interesting video, I've gotta check it out tomorrow.


----------



## Sennheiser

pearljam50000 said:


> Speaking of active monitors.
> An interesting comparison of Genelec 8030 and HD800.
> https://youtu.be/63eg4YUZNDo


 
  
 Interesting video. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## koiloco

moonhead said:


> I havnet tried Valhalla, but Mjolnir/Gungnir is a Hugh pile of crap with HD800.. Way way to bright to even be considered neutral, IMO.
> And I know I'm not the only one hating Mjolnir with HD800, lots of people in here share the same opinion.
> 
> Should be good with Audeze which obviously lacks treble.
> ...


 
 +1 best advice on HF this week, IMO.


----------



## Rumiho

moonhead said:


> I havnet tried Valhalla, but Mjolnir/Gungnir is a Hugh pile of crap with HD800.. Way way to bright to even be considered neutral, IMO.
> And I know I'm not the only one hating Mjolnir with HD800, lots of people in here share the same opinion.
> 
> Should be good with Audeze which obviously lacks treble.
> ...


 
 Thank you for the info, so I'll keep my current combo. I was actually referring to a pc monitor like the UW Dell lol but I may look into those as well.


----------



## Moonhead

Well we aren't allowed to descuse speakers, but I found Yamaha HS series very similar to HD800, both in balance and clarity, tremendous value in speakers, IMO.


----------



## cocolinho

rumiho said:


> Has anyone tried the HD 800's paired with both the Valhalla 2/ Bifrost Uber


 
 This is my settings. Very happy with my combo! Everything sounds great!
 Some would recommend Anax mod with the Val2, I can understand why but so far I didn't feel the need to make it. Maybe you can try some different tubes with some money left ?


----------



## Rumiho

cocolinho said:


> This is my settings. Very happy with my combo! Everything sounds great!
> Some would recommend Anax mod with the Val2, I can understand why but so far I didn't feel the need to make it. Maybe you can try some different tubes with some money left ?


 
 Good to hear ^^. I'm actually using it with 64 Foton and 66 Novo that were included with the stock from the headfier I bought the Valhalla from. Picking up either the Draug 2 or the Zoetic cable from Norne Audio mainly because I like the look and I want a shorter cable than stock but if there is differences in sound that will be a positive.


----------



## Taowolf51

Any thoughts on how new vs. old pads affect sound? Notably stuff like soundstage?
  
 I have pretty worn down pads and have been thinking about getting a replacement pair for awhile.


----------



## Sorrodje

taowolf51 said:


> Any thoughts on how new vs. old pads affect sound? Notably stuff like soundstage?
> 
> I have pretty worn down pads and have been thinking about getting a replacement pair for awhile.


 
  
 Not nay in what I experienced when I changed mine at the beginning of this year


----------



## ziggysp2000

sorrodje said:


> Not nay in what I experienced when I changed mine at the beginning of this year


 
 Were they easy to change? I was under the impression HD800 pads were not replaceable.


----------



## Sorrodje

ziggysp2000 said:


> Were they easy to change? I was under the impression HD800 pads were not replaceable.


 
  
 Pull them off is easy. put them on is a bit harder because it needs a bit time to understand how they fit exactly and once understood you still have to push hard enough. I struggled a bit but there's nothing that hard to do. Sorry but I'm not able to explain it better in english.


----------



## rawrster

I agree. I had a really old HD800 where it was starting to flake so I replaced the pads and didn't hear any sound change. They are easy to replace however you need to understand how to take them off first. I thought I broke it the first time I tried taking the pads off before realizing it was fine.


----------



## Taowolf51

I've removed and replaced the pads a number of times (cleaning, doing the anax mod, etc.). Are the new pads more difficult to get on than the old ones?
  
 Also, if there's no sound change, I'll go on to my second question. How is the soundstage for everyone here? For me, it's fine, but far from how it's described. It's pretty close, but the big benefit is that the soundstage doesn't encroach into the "inside the head" area, unlike every other headphone I've heard. Outside of the lack of inner-head sound, nothing projects more than a foot or two away from my head (outside of binaural stuff of course).


----------



## mikoss

Anyone else sensitive to certain treble frequencies? For some reason, I get intense pain from my inner ear, down below my ear, behind my jaw. It feels like a really bad cold or perhaps an ear infection (I honestly haven't had one since I was a young kid, but this is painful). It lasts anywhere from an hour or two, to several days (depending on how long I listen with them feeling this way).
  
 I thought the 800's with the Anax mod would be ok for my ears, but after about an hour listening at low/med volume, I start feeling this pain. It feels like someone shoved a sharp knife into my ear and is slowing carving it out... My volume is low enough to hear people beside me talking, so definitely not a volume issue.
  
 Much less pronounced than listening to obviously bright cans... I could tolerate the HE-560's with a Sabre DAC for about 15 seconds. Stock 800's hurt my ears far quicker, but I thought the mod would alleviate all of my pain. Just driving the 800's from a tube setup, so the treble is no where near as much energy as stock or from a SS amp. 
  
 I really, really love the 800's- they give me the same kind of satisfaction I get from the 650's, and more. Just wondering about this treble situation... I don't think I have tinnitus; there is no ringing in my ears, just pain that eventually subsides.


----------



## ziggysp2000

mikoss said:


> Anyone else sensitive to certain treble frequencies? For some reason, I get intense pain from my inner ear, down below my ear, behind my jaw. It feels like a really bad cold or perhaps an ear infection (I honestly haven't had one since I was a young kid, but this is painful). It lasts anywhere from an hour or two, to several days (depending on how long I listen with them feeling this way).
> 
> I thought the 800's with the Anax mod would be ok for my ears, but after about an hour listening at low/med volume, I start feeling this pain. It feels like someone shoved a sharp knife into my ear and is slowing carving it out... My volume is low enough to hear people beside me talking, so definitely not a volume issue.
> 
> ...


 
 Huh...I would definitely see an audiologist about that... the hear definitely hears higher frequencies as being louder, but it shouldn't hurt, unless the volume is way too loud.


----------



## Yviena

Just got my HD800 and im wondering has anyone tried running them without the dust covers no other mods done ?
 And if so was there better detail retrieval i heard that the covers remove a bit of the micro details.


----------



## 299792458

mikoss said:


> Anyone else sensitive to certain treble frequencies? For some reason, I get intense pain from my inner ear, down below my ear, behind my jaw. It feels like a really bad cold or perhaps an ear infection (I honestly haven't had one since I was a young kid, but this is painful). It lasts anywhere from an hour or two, to several days (depending on how long I listen with them feeling this way).
> 
> I thought the 800's with the Anax mod would be ok for my ears, but after about an hour listening at low/med volume, I start feeling this pain. It feels like someone shoved a sharp knife into my ear and is slowing carving it out... My volume is low enough to hear people beside me talking, so definitely not a volume issue.
> 
> ...




try adjusting the fit of the headphones on your head.you might want to try raising them higher so that the bottom is closer to the bottm of your ears.


----------



## thecrow

ziggysp2000 said:


> Huh...I would definitely see an audiologist about that... the hear definitely hears higher frequencies as being louder, but it shouldn't hurt, unless the volume is way too loud.


Absolutely. mikossPause your headphone search and go chat to a doctor.


----------



## drez

I find dynamic drivers can have sort of forceful treble.  Maybe e-stats or something might be less aggressive.  When I first got HD800 my ears hurt also, that after HE-6.


----------



## mikoss

I've always been sensitive to certain sounds... The water from the shower first thing in the morning can sound piercing, dishes being unloaded clanking together, hand driers are the absolute worst. I think it's just a general sensitivity to higher pitched noises. I get my hearing tested at work once a year and it's mostly 0's and maybe a few 5's. 

Anyway the HD-650's don't cause any pain, I'll try adjusting the 800's or trying different sources. I don't think I'm alone in being sensitive to certain frequencies... (The LCD-3's also don't fatigue or hurt my ears at all, but I much prefer the HD-800's.)

edit: Thanks for the info and tips guys. Looks like I probably have hyperacusis, a sensitivity to "everyday sounds". At least it isn't tinnitus, I guess. Maybe I'll try playing around with EQ and see if I can isolate exactly where the fatigue/pain comes from with the 800's. Hoping to be able to use them without any pain...


----------



## Sorrodje

yviena said:


> Just got my HD800 and im wondering has anyone tried running them without the dust covers no other mods done ?
> And if so was there better detail retrieval i heard that the covers remove a bit of the micro details.


 
  
 Yup. I definitely tried without the dust covers and I wouldn't go back. sound gains some precision and vividness but more sharpness . that's why once the Dust covers was off I bought the Rug liner.  running the HD800 with the dust covers is the first stage for Anax mod whose purpose is to improve clarity/detail/resolution AND dampen the resonnances hence the harshness.


----------



## naimless

mikoss said:


> Anyone else sensitive to certain treble frequencies? For some reason, I get intense pain from my inner ear, down below my ear, behind my jaw. It feels like a really bad cold or perhaps an ear infection (I honestly haven't had one since I was a young kid, but this is painful). It lasts anywhere from an hour or two, to several days (depending on how long I listen with them feeling this way).
> 
> I thought the 800's with the Anax mod would be ok for my ears, but after about an hour listening at low/med volume, I start feeling this pain. It feels like someone shoved a sharp knife into my ear and is slowing carving it out... My volume is low enough to hear people beside me talking, so definitely not a volume issue.
> 
> ...




I suffer from ear infections and I once made the mistake of listening to the hd800's while recovering from an infection,the pain started after only 5 minutes I took them off and the pain went away just as quickly,I think I then tried my he400's and had no problems.
When my ears are healthy I have no problems with the treble of the hd800's or the he400's both are not modded or eq'd.
So I think the hd800's are definitely doing something that most others aren't.
Oh,and as others have suggested go and see your doctor if you haven't already.


----------



## Yviena

sorrodje said:


> Yup. I definitely tried without the dust covers and I wouldn't go back. sound gains some precision and vividness but more sharpness . that's why once the Dust covers was off I bought the Rug liner.  running the HD800 with the dust covers is the first stage for Anax mod whose purpose is to improve clarity/detail/resolution AND dampen the resonnances hence the harshness.



Do you think it's possible to run it without the rug liner and only remove the dust covers? Treble harshness is not really a problem never had any problems with it even tho i hear upto 18khz.


----------



## Sorrodje

yviena said:


> Do you think it's possible to run it without the rug liner and only remove the dust covers? Treble harshness is not really a problem never had any problems with it even tho i hear upto 18khz.


 
  
 Just try by yourself  . I did that during 2 or 3 weeks and felt the need to dampen a bit the result . I won't put back anything in front of the driver though.


----------



## Yviena

Btw i've found that with most headphones they sound the best when they sit forward with the back of the earpads touching the ears. There could be more of a profound effect with the HD800 because the earcups are so big.


----------



## johnjen

Then also try rotating the head band forward on the top of your head, while keeping the ear cups moved forward.
  
 Sort of the icing on the cake so to speak.
  
 JJ


----------



## Maxx134

listen4joy said:


> i think hd800 is not [COLOR=3E3E3E] evaluated enough. look among the high end headphones its the most popular headphone its has 1278 pages in headfi. its got in 2009.[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=3E3E3E]7 years old and still kicking and fighting this newer high end headphones (dharma, mr speakers ether, lcd, hifiman stax and on and on... 7 years, maybe its no longer the "king" but still very exellent all arounder and give hard fight to all this new players around. kudos to[/COLOR] [COLOR=660099]Sennheiser[/COLOR]  [COLOR=3E3E3E]i love my hd 800 (-:[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=3E3E3E]with proer amp like dna stratus it will give fight even  hifiman he-1000. [/COLOR]



To me the HD800 VERY easily wins hands down over everything&anything the HE1k can give you(!) with exception of bass level.
But With a strong tube amp, the hd800 achieves levels of bass that can be very surprisingly close and preferrable, due to its accuracy.
Edit:
those are my personal impressions from listening at a friends house with our combined gear...


----------



## longbowbbs

maxx134 said:


> listen4joy said:
> 
> 
> > i think hd800 is not  evaluated enough. look among the high end headphones its the most popular headphone its has 1278 pages in headfi. its got in 2009.
> ...


 
 +1 to this....


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Guys, wrestling with a decision. 

Have a trial HE1000 in the house, fantastic headphone, but uber expensive.

I have a Taurus Mk. 2, Uber Bifrost/Monarchy 22B and have never heard the HD800 in my home set up (I live in the middle of no where).

Looking for honest advice from those who have tried both. Thank you.


----------



## ziggysp2000

So...I carry the torch of HD800 proudly. That said, it pretty much never leaves the house, where it requires a pretty healthy set of gear to really make it impressive. 
  
 I have a work rig that currently is made up of a Fiio E17, which of course is inadequate for the sennheisers. I am switching to an audioquest dragonfly for a DAC, and a Garage 1217 Polaris amp. I have this dream that maybe, just maybe, the HD800 will come to work occasionally and be at least somewhat impressive.
  
 Has anyone tried the Polaris with the HD800?


----------



## ruthieandjohn

wildcatsare1 said:


> Guys, wrestling with a decision.
> 
> Have a trial HE1000 in the house, fantastic headphone, but uber expensive.
> 
> ...


 
 Here's my comparison, done with the Sennheiser HDVD 800 DAC / amp running the Sennheiser 800 (matched by Sennheiser to best showcase the HD 800), the Grado PS1000 driven by the Joseph Grado amp (again, a same-manufacturer showcase combination), and the HE1000 driven by the CEntrance HiFi M8 (which I subsequently learned was bested by the Sennheiser HDVD 800, the Joseph Grado HPA-1, and especially the HiFiMAN EF-6, so the HE1000 score would only go up with these other amps).
  
 High scores for each of the 10 tests are better... the column that did the best, as compared to the other two, is awarded 3 points and blue ("first place"); ties for first (purple) and second (orange) are also possible.  More detail is *here*.


----------



## negura

yviena said:


> Just got my HD800 and im wondering has anyone tried running them without the dust covers no other mods done ?
> And if so was there better detail retrieval i heard that the covers remove a bit of the micro details.


 
  
 Once the dust covers were out it was quite clear they will never make it back in. With or without further dampening. I use the rug liners to tame reflections. It's a mild effect.
  


maxx134 said:


> To me the HD800 VERY easily wins hands down over everything&anything the HE1k can give you(!) with exception of bass level.
> But With a strong tube amp, the hd800 achieves levels of bass that can be very surprisingly close and preferrable, due to its accuracy.
> Edit:
> those are my personal impressions from listening at a friends house with our combined gear...


 
  
  
 Yeah. Imo: Except for bass heft, but not bass quality (that HEK wall of bass thing is actually slightly annoying to me), the HEK have only one thing over the HD800s: the stage height. Which is just as situational as the huge HD800s width is.  Genre wise the HEK will sound better some modern music: pop and metal for example. Being more forgiving of recording quality is a two edged sword which comes into play with the mentioned genres.


----------



## preproman

wildcatsare1 said:


> Guys, wrestling with a decision.
> 
> Have a trial HE1000 in the house, fantastic headphone, but uber expensive.
> 
> ...


 
  
 How far are you from Cincinnati?
  


negura said:


> Yeah. Except for bass heft, but not bass quality (that HEK wall of bass thing is actually slightly annoying to me), the HEK have only one thing over the HD800s: the stage height. Which is just as situational as the huge HD800s width is. * Genre wise the HEK will sound better some modern music: pop and metal for example. Being more forgiving of recording quality is a two edged sword which comes into play with the mentioned genres.*


 
  
 Spot on @negura 
  
 I will add the HEk does better at small Jazz ensembles and female Jazz Vocals. Pretty much all Jazz - The HEK adds that body. Maybe some Big Band Jazz will sound better with the HD800s.
  
 I'm in a very heated love hate relationship with the HD800s.  Yet another pair has found it's way back to me.  In my book she's a one trick pony, specializing in large classical ensembles.  Being a one trick pony - she is simply the best at what she does.  Not that she doesn't sound good at other genres - she's just not the best at them - so I like other headphones at those times.  
  
 I'm in the process of building a rig that will take full advantage of the the strengths of the HD800s "I'm hoping so"  and not so much worrying about what she does wrong.  "A Rig for Classical Music Only"
  
 Her strengths to me are:  Transparency, clarity, speed, imaging, treble extension, tight and textured bass, of course staging.   
  
 To take full advantage of this your AMP / DAC has to be that as well.  For "some" tube amps - ultra transparency can be a challenge.  
  
 Tube amps like the EC 445 and other high end EC amps can achieve this.  The DNA Stratus with EML 2A3 tubes can achieve this.  Woo amps may have a harder time with this - the WA22 and the WA5 that I heard could not.  Other tube amps well it's a crap shoot and they do their best at making the HD800 enjoyable.  That means masking the things she does well.
  
 SS amps, well the one SS amp that I know can achieve this is the GS-X mk2.  So I'm going back to what I know.  "Wire-With-Gain".  
  
 DACs:
 Some DACs can't get it quite right, rather it's R2R or D-S, doesn't matter to me - only the sound I'm trying to achieve.  My D1 does lots of things right for instance - female Jazz vocals and a great overall tone for most music out there, just a little to full for classical music.  The Yggdrasil would be better suited for the transparency thing except for it's gray-ish backround.  So I have an in home audition now with the Bricasti M1 DAC.  It does everything I'm wanting it to do.  Now for other music I still would pick the D1 but for this task at hand, the M1 is perfect for the job..
  
 So my rig will consist of:  Bricasti M1 / GS-X mk2 / HD800s..   I know alot of folks don't think the GS-X mk2 is a good pairing, while others this it's a great pairing,  Just like all things audio - To each his own. 
  
 All IMO.


----------



## negura

preproman said:


>


 
  
 Yeah -  I am in the same school of thought with the HD800s. I play their strengths ignoring what they don't do too well. Not trying to make the HD800s what they are not... i.e. genre master. I have the HE-6s for that. The HEK can do that too...
  
 The modded HD800s actually can do instrumental jazz amazingly well. Anything with real instruments really: acoustic, folk, classical, modern jazz.  etc. Nothing touches them at detail/clarity/imaging etc For this the bass is actually great too as it's excellent quality and this music doesn't rely on sub-bass that much.


----------



## Taowolf51

preproman said:


> Spoiler: Spoiler tag just to save space.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's interesting how some consider the HD800 to be some of the best general purpose headphones while others consider them to be extremely genre-specific.


----------



## negura

taowolf51 said:


> It's interesting how some consider the HD800 to be some of the best general purpose headphones while others consider them to be extremely genre-specific.


 
  
 There are a couple schools of thought:
 - tame the HD800s. They are transparent headphones and moddable. One can couple them with a soft/nice amp and DAC and get them to sound all all-arounders they want. However I've been there a few times and some headphones will be both even better genre masters and better technically: HE-6s, HEK, Stax etc
 - play the HD800s strengths. The scope will be more narrow, but the HD800s become untouchable in their strength areas: detail, imaging, precision, clarity.
  
 The only reason for me to go Option 1. is if the HD800s were the only flagships I had.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Daryl,

Thank you for the offer, unfortunately I am about 4 hours away in Western Kentucky. I will be sending Todd's HEK to you this coming Wednesday. 

I listen to mostly classic rock, classical and jazz. No EDM, rap and I am allergic to brickwalled current rock.


----------



## Sorrodje

I'm clearly in the camp of people that think the HD800 is genre specific : Classical , Contemporary Jazz , Some EDMs, Some acoustic , Live recordings. Fortunately for me that represents 80% of what I listen to. I wouldn't take another headphone for the Jazz I listen to but I wouldn't listen massively to pop, rock , metal with a HD800. ymmv. If I listened more vocals and rock/metal , I'd probably pick the HE-6 over the HD800.  
  
 The HEk.... Except for pop music, I wouldn't use it. That's why I asked the refund for mine. There's nothing much more to care about when one already have find his great headphone at home.  I Still have a HE-6 on my desk and I prefer this one by a fair margin despite some issues but I didn"t meet any issue free headphones. There's no free lunch. 
 @Preproman & @Negura :


----------



## Taowolf51

negura said:


> There are a couple schools of thought:
> - tame the HD800s. They are transparent headphones and moddable. One can couple them with a soft/nice amp and DAC and get them to sound all all-arounders they want. However I've been there a few times and some headphones will be both even better genre masters and better technically: HE-6s, HEK, Stax etc
> - play the HD800s strengths. The scope will be more narrow, but the HD800s become untouchable in their strength areas: detail, imaging, precision, clarity.
> 
> The only reason for me to go Option 1. is if the HD800s were the only flagships I had.


 
  
 I think that also varies by taste, though. I've had time with most flagships (admittedly not the HEK, but from people's descriptions of them they would likely not be my cup of tea), and none of them struck me as headphones I would prefer as all-rounders over the HD800. The HD800 does some things exceptionally well, and they're a combination of strengths that I enjoy. You can also easily mod the HD800's while still keeping their strengths. Most mods tame the treble and slightly boost the bass, but that would hardly affect their detail, imaging, precision, or clarity; perhaps even enhance it (in the case of the Anax mod for example). The HD800 is exceptionally detailed, exceptionally textured, and exceptionally fast, it would take a lot to change that.
  
 I think another problem is the popularity of smooth (very little texture) dark headphones, which IMO make for a bland experience. The HD800's are one of the headphones that don't follow this trend (likely because they were made before this trend became popular). I still haven't heard anything that offers the texture of the HD800, it's in a league of its own in that respect, which is something that strongly impacts my enjoyment of a headphone/speaker with every genre of music. Back when I had the LCD-2 for example, (often referred to as a good general purpose headphone), I found them to be extremely genre (and even individual song) specific. Some music would sound flat and lifeless while others would sound exciting and impactful. Part of this comes down to the fact that the LCD-2 is a smoother darker headphone, while the HD800 is very energetic, it would inject energy and always try to strut its stuff, even with poorly produced music. Shocking as it may be, I also find them to be very forgiving of poor production (while scaling up very well). In fact, my general playlist just started playing Hank is Dead by Red Fang (grungy low-fi stoner metal), and despite their poor production, the song sounds interesting, exciting. I can hear every little detail of the grungy vocals and overdriven guitar. Maybe a lot of people don't want to hear every little detail, but personally I would never want my headphone to smooth over it all. Then I can easily switch over to very well produced music like Punch Brothers (bluegrass), The Flashbulb (lots of genres, most non-EDM electronic), and Yosi Horikawa (also a nebulous genre, electronic in nature) and experience their strengths as well.
  
 Perhaps I'm the odd one, but I don't consider things like detail, low decay, clarity, a non-dark signature, and imaging to be genre-specific qualities. The only thing that makes the HD800 genre-specific is the 6kHz spike and the mild bass falloff, which can be easily fixed without having to resort to syrupy and smooth gear that would hinder the above qualities. I'm personally using an ODAC and Valhalla 2. Neither slow nor syrupy; relatively inexpensive too.
  
 Another important element is comfort. I don't know how long most people listen to their headphones, but I listen to mine for hours and hours every day (while working), so they need to be comfortable. In my experience, planars especially have major comfort issues, partially because of their weight, and partially because Audeze/Hifiman aren't very good at making comfortable headbands (though Hifiman has made major strides in this area with their newer headphones). Headphones aren't going to be enjoyable regardless of how good they sound if their headband/weight is giving you a headache. The HD800's are exceptionally well designed, and it shows in their comfort (not surprising considering the money Sennheiser has for RnD and talent).
  
 Of course, *all* of this is a matter of taste, as is any argument against. Once you hit the range of technically capable flagships, taste outweighs differences in technical ability by a large margin. Each headphone is its own flavor or series of flavors, and everyone has their own favorite combination.


----------



## Sorrodje

taowolf51 said:


> Perhaps I'm the odd one, but I don't consider things like detail, low decay, clarity, a non-dark signature, and imaging to be genre-specific qualities.


 
  
  
 That's definitely not genre specific.  IMO we should better talk about recording quality than music itself fot that matter.  HD800 is problematic mainly for music recorded with a lot of compression and with multitracks . the final result depends a lot from the engineer purpose. if he wants the final result to sound natural, then it will sounds good with a HD800. if not... the hD800 will let you hear and unfortunately for Rock , Metal and pop lovers , those genre are often polluted by average to bad recordings. 
  
 The fact is Most Jazz and Classical recordings are made and produced to sound close to live performance. then the HD800 sounds fine. for everything Else , some other headphones will be more enjoyable. 
  
 Still in my humble opinion and experience.


----------



## Sorrodje

preproman said:


> The DNA Stratus with EML 2A3 tubes can achieve this.


 
  
  
 want !


----------



## negura

taowolf51 said:


>


 
  
 I actually agree in most respects. However a couple of notes:
 - the Anax 2.0 mod does compromise in a few areas like clarity/detail/precision. There's a reason 3.0 is prepared.
 - it is a matter of taste but it's also a matter of comparison with other flagships. I'm sorry but the LCD-2s are imo not flagship material and neither good enough technically to compare with the HD800s.
 - The qualities you mention are of course not genre specific, but the HD800s like any headphones have flaws too. It's the flaws they have that make them more genre specific: too darn picky of source material (a double edged sword as said because they also sound amazing with great recordings), sound stage width which is erring on too big, they enhance vocal sibilance and have slightly whistling mids, limited sub-bass capacity, treble peak. Despite all that, they are untouchable at what they do well, IF modded accordingly (no dust covers for example) and on a transparent/clear/articulated/detailed rig. 
 - After a lot of time with the HD800s indeed I'd rather not try to make them what they're not, but enjoy for what they are awesome at, with some mild modding and a certain combination of components to support what they do best.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

If anybody is looking for an exceptional Audio Dealer please consider TTVJ. Just spoke to Todd, and he is going to send me his personal HD800s to try in my system next week...!


----------



## Sorrodje

wildcatsare1 said:


> If anybody is looking for an exceptional Audio Dealer please consider TTVJ. Just spoke to Todd, and he is going to send me his personal HD800s to try in my system next week...!


 
  
  
 Great ! the best way to elaborate an opinion is the DIY way with serious comparison at home in a quiet environment with our own music.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

My previous experience with the HD800 (&Ether) have been at meets. So I will not being doing comparisons to either, yet. 

I appreciate everyone's input!


----------



## preproman

wildcatsare1 said:


> My previous experience with the HD800 (&Ether) have been at meets. So I will not being doing comparisons to either, yet.
> 
> I appreciate everyone's input!


 

 I hear talk about the Ether being the planar HD800s.  Is there some truth to that?


----------



## Taowolf51

sorrodje said:


> That's definitely not genre specific.  IMO we should better talk about recording quality than music itself fot that matter.  HD800 is problematic mainly for music recorded with a lot of compression and with multitracks . the final result depends a lot from the engineer purpose. if he wants the final result to sound natural, then it will sounds good with a HD800. if not... the hD800 will let you hear and unfortunately for Rock , Metal and pop lovers , those genre are often polluted by average to bad recordings.
> 
> The fact is Most Jazz and Classical recordings are made and produced to sound close to live performance. then the HD800 sounds fine. for everything Else , some other headphones will be more enjoyable.
> 
> Still in my humble opinion and experience.


 
  
 Agreed with the idea that metal, rock, and pop is riddled with poor recording quality, but as I said before, (and perhaps I'm alone on this), but the HD800 is very forgiving of these poorly produced genres.
 I guess part of it is that my idea of the ideal sound isn't for all genres to sound as natural and realistic as possible (it is for some genres like bluegrass and classical for example), but my ideal for genres like metal and electronic is more abstract and visceral. I don't care if an electric guitar doesn't sound natural (since in reality it isn't a natural sound at all), it has more to do about whether the nature of the headphone reflects the nature of the music and enhances its qualities. In faster genres like electronic and metal, I want to hear every sound, every layer, and every texture. I want it to be exciting, energetic, grungy and dirty (if need be). The HD800 does well because it's able to switch between these (let's call them moods) very well. It's like having a supercar that's a king around the corners, brutal in a straight line, and smooth and comfortable when you pick up the kids. Will a rolls be more comfortable? Yeah, but don't try to throw it on a track.
  
 This is the kind of discussion I was looking for with my original comment, it's always interesting hearing from the other side of the coin. 
  
  


negura said:


> I actually agree in most respects. However a couple of notes:
> - the Anax 2.0 mod does compromise in a few areas like clarity/detail/precision. There's a reason 3.0 is prepared.
> - it is a matter of taste but it's also a matter of comparison with other flagships. I'm sorry but the LCD-2s are imo not flagship material and neither good enough technically to compare with the HD800s.
> - The qualities you mention are of course not genre specific, but the HD800s like any headphones have flaws too. It's the flaws they have that make them more genre specific: too darn picky of source material (a double edged sword as said because they also sound amazing with great recordings), sound stage width which is erring on too big, they enhance vocal sibilance and have slightly whistling mids, limited sub-bass capacity, treble peak. Despite all that, they are untouchable at what they do well, IF modded accordingly (no dust covers for example) and on a transparent/clear/articulated/detailed rig.
> - After a lot of time with the HD800s indeed I'd rather not try to make them what they're not, but enjoy for what they are awesome at, with some mild modding and a certain combination of components to support what they do best.


 
 - Would you be able to give me any documentation/data regarding that? Everything I've read details the mod as enhancing the detail/clarity/precision of the headphone, including the data. Faster decay and less internal resonance in the CSD's, flatter response in the FR graphs, and more even/accurate distribution of sound within the ear cups in digital models. The Anax 3 seems to simply enhance the benefits already gained by the Anax 2, rather than fixing problems that occur because of the mod. The only thing I could understand as a reduction in detail is simply a reduction in treble (specifically in areas that suffer from internal resonance), but that's enhancing technical capabilities, not reducing them.
 - The LCD-2 was the example I used because it's the Audeze headphone I have the most recent experience with. Apply what I said to the LCD-3 and somewhat to the LCD-X as well, the issues I discussed still apply. I can't speak for the LCD-XC as I didn't spend enough time with them.
 -Of course, everything has flaws. But as I detailed before, I don't really agree with some of the flaws you're discussing. In my experience the HD800 is less picky than average when it comes to source material. Soundstage IMO was actually a bit disappointing for me, width, height, and depth. It's not unusually large, but it does have the benefit of not suffering from the "in your head" soundstage problem almost every other headphone suffers from. Sibilance is something I haven't run into much with these, less so than with other headphones. There is a lot of treble, and it can be sharp at times, but it rarely is sharp in the sibilance area (with notable extreme examples to the contrary). Subbass and treble peak can be fixed with very little effort.
 -Again, this is where we disagree. Nothing about what I do is trying to make the HD800's something they are not (which is simply an opinion on both sides), but taking their strengths and amplifying them.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

preproman said:


> I hear talk about the Ether being the planar HD800s.  Is there some truth to that?




They are very similar, I liked it quite a bit, but only listened to it at the Meet. I understand Dan has revised the headphone and DUM cable since then though. 

Though to be honest though the difference between the Ether and my modded 560's (Norne Draug 2 balanced, grill mod, no fuzzor the treble never bothered me) wasn't that great. The HEK the first time I put them on the difference blew me away.


----------



## preproman

sorrodje said:


> That's definitely not genre specific.  IMO we should better talk about recording quality than music itself fot that matter.  HD800 is problematic mainly for music recorded with a lot of compression and with multitracks . the final result depends a lot from the engineer purpose. if he wants the final result to sound natural, then it will sounds good with a HD800. if not... the hD800 will let you hear and unfortunately for Rock , Metal and pop lovers , those genre are often polluted by average to bad recordings.
> 
> The fact is Most Jazz and Classical recordings are made and produced to sound close to live performance. then the HD800 sounds fine. for everything Else , some other headphones will be more enjoyable.
> 
> Still in my humble opinion and experience.


 
  
 I agree with you on most point.  I think where we have difference of opinions are with "Jazz"  now Jazz is a very large genre. So we both could be talking about different Jazz genres.  Is Contemporary Jazz the Miles Davis, Sonny Rolling, Charlie Parker, Bill Evans, Charles Mingus, Chet Baker ? ( I like "some" of that type)   I don't like the Smooth Jazz type.  I like Cassandra Wilson, Carmen Lundy, Carmen McRae, Ella, Eva, Dee Dee Bridgwater, Eliane Elias.
  
 I also agree that I'm not sure how a very revealing headphone can also be a forgiving headphone at the same time.
  


negura said:


> I actually agree in most respects. However a couple of notes:
> - the Anax 2.0 mod does compromise in a few areas like clarity/detail/precision. There's a reason 3.0 is prepared.
> - it is a matter of taste but it's also a matter of comparison with other flagships. I'm sorry but the LCD-2s are imo not flagship material and neither good enough technically to compare with the HD800s.
> - The qualities you mention are of course not genre specific, but the HD800s like any headphones have flaws too. It's the flaws they have that make them more genre specific: too darn picky of source material (a double edged sword as said because they also sound amazing with great recordings), sound stage width which is erring on too big, they enhance vocal sibilance and have slightly whistling mids, limited sub-bass capacity, treble peak. Despite all that, they are untouchable at what they do well, IF modded accordingly (no dust covers for example) and on a transparent/clear/articulated/detailed rig.
> - After a lot of time with the HD800s indeed I'd rather not try to make them what they're not, but enjoy for what they are awesome at, with some mild modding and a certain combination of components to support what they do best.


 
  
  
 Yeah - all the mods I've heard tried to fix the flaws of the HD800.  In doing so they also took away the strengths i.e... trying to make them what they're not.  Instead of letting them excel at what they do best.


----------



## Rayzilla

wildcatsare1 said:


> If anybody is looking for an exceptional Audio Dealer please consider TTVJ. Just spoke to Todd, and he is going to send me his personal HD800s to try in my system next week...!


 
 I am interested to hear what your comparison thoughts will be between the HD 800 and your HE1000. Like I said in my earlier post (can't remember which thread though), if you are not sensitive to treble and find that you have a preference for it, you may find the HD 800 to be more to your liking than the HE1000. That is my preference and that is why I prefer the HD 800 over the HE1000.


----------



## rawrster

wildcatsare1 said:


> If anybody is looking for an exceptional Audio Dealer please consider TTVJ. Just spoke to Todd, and he is going to send me his personal HD800s to try in my system next week...!




Wow that's really nice of him. I think you will like them since you liked the he560. I'm really close to buying the hd800 again. I had a huge dilemma a few years ago between he6 and hd800 and it seems I'm back to where I started..almost


----------



## johnjen

preproman said:


> snip Yeah - all the mods I've heard tried to fix the flaws of the HD800.  In doing so they also took away the strengths i.e... trying to make them what they're not.  Instead of letting them excel at what they do best.


 
 Of all of the anax mod varients I had heard (there were 4 that I tried) the shelf liner was the most 'successful' of that bunch.
  
 But they all pale in comparison to the SAA mods.
 At least in my system, to the music I listen to, at the levels and duration I deal with.
  
 And yes there are those who rail against paying for any of these 'free' modifications.
 But those 'free' mods are but a subset of all that is done by SAA.
  
 It’s their sum total of many little changes, and not just a few big changes that makes the difference.
  
 At least for me in my system, etc.
  
 JJ


----------



## preproman

johnjen said:


> Of all of the anax mod varients I had heard (there were 4 that I tried) the shelf liner was the most 'successful' of that bunch.
> 
> But they all pale in comparison to the SAA mods.
> At least in my system, to the music I listen to, at the levels and duration I deal with.
> ...


 

 Yeah - I'm just afraid to send my pair to James.  He takes so damn long.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

johnjen said:


> Of all of the anax mod varients I had heard (there were 4 that I tried) the shelf liner was the most 'successful' of that bunch.
> 
> But they all pale in comparison to the SAA mods.
> At least in my system, to the music I listen to, at the levels and duration I deal with.
> ...




JJ, can you get the SAA mods without purchasing the Endorphin Cable?


----------



## preproman

^^Yes^^


----------



## johnjen

preproman said:


> Yeah - I'm just afraid to send my pair to James.  He takes so damn long.


 
 He's a one man operation so yeah it can take a while.
  
 I will be interested in reading your impressions of what you notice changed, if you do follow thru.
  
 But at least for me it was ALL well worth the effort, and cost.
 Even by todays TotL standards.
  
 End game, at least for the transducers, and then I proceeded to build the rest of my system around my 800's.


----------



## johnjen

wildcatsare1 said:


> JJ, can you get the SAA mods without purchasing the Endorphin Cable?


 


preproman said:


> ^^Yes^^


 
  
 ^^Yes^^
 But…
 There's always a but, right?
  
 As I mentioned above _"It’s their sum total of many little changes, and not just a few big changes that makes the difference."_
  
 And the cable is an integral part of the "_many little changes"_ (even though it's not so little and has at least 4 'unique' sub-mods incorporated within it).
  
 That isn't to say you couldn't achieve a suitable result with a different cable but it would entail much fussing and trial and error in the process.
 Which is another way of saying it too will be an expensive and time consuming proposition.
 Not to mention you'd need a 'standard' to compare to when using a different cable etc.
  
 JJ


----------



## Naim.F.C

Bought another pair of these. Been a while since I last used them, so I guess it's time for HD800 vs T1 round two lol. Was listening to some music a few days back and just figured I wanted a wider soundstage for some better instrumental separation, along with added sub bass. From memory, comparatively the T1's were a bit smoother sounding, and had more mid bass punch. No idea if these differences will end up with my going back to the T1 again, or if this time the HD800's might hook me. Should know in a few days I guess!


----------



## negura

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






taowolf51 said:


> Agreed with the idea that metal, rock, and pop is riddled with poor recording quality, but as I said before, (and perhaps I'm alone on this), but the HD800 is very forgiving of these poorly produced genres.
> I guess part of it is that my idea of the ideal sound isn't for all genres to sound as natural and realistic as possible (it is for some genres like bluegrass and classical for example), but my ideal for genres like metal and electronic is more abstract and visceral. I don't care if an electric guitar doesn't sound natural (since in reality it isn't a natural sound at all), it has more to do about whether the nature of the headphone reflects the nature of the music and enhances its qualities. In faster genres like electronic and metal, I want to hear every sound, every layer, and every texture. I want it to be exciting, energetic, grungy and dirty (if need be). The HD800 does well because it's able to switch between these (let's call them moods) very well. It's like having a supercar that's a king around the corners, brutal in a straight line, and smooth and comfortable when you pick up the kids. Will a rolls be more comfortable? Yeah, but don't try to throw it on a track.
> 
> This is the kind of discussion I was looking for with my original comment, it's always interesting hearing from the other side of the coin.
> ...





  


  

 - Heh, documentation. I never have enough of that in the professional realm I work in.  I'm always open to ways of "fixing" the HD800s flaws without compromises. That was not the case in my experience. This is what I am hearing, and it's imo. YMMV. I hear that the Anax 2.0 mod sacrifices some of the HD800s strengths. If you heard the Anax 3 mod and it's not any better in compromising less, then so be it, but I am still going to have to hear it for myself before I can comment.
 - Ok, I am happy generalize further as an LCD-3 owner, that none of the Audeze actually can compete technically with the HD800s, but even less so the 2s. There are however headphones that can more than match certain modded HD800 on a "nice sounding" rig technically. All imo.
 - Well you know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Taowolf51

> Originally Posted by *negura* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> - Heh, documentation. I never have enough of that in the professional realm I work in.  I'm always open to ways of "fixing" the HD800s flaws without compromises. That was not the case in my experience. This is what I am hearing, and it's imo. YMMV. I hear that the Anax 2.0 mod sacrifices some of the HD800s strengths. If you heard the Anax 3 mod and it's not any better in compromising less, then so be it, but I am still going to have to hear it for myself before I can comment.
> - Ok, I am happy generalize further as an LCD-3 owner, that none of the Audeze actually can compete technically with the HD800s, but even less so the 2s. There are however headphones that can more than match certain modded HD800 on a "nice sounding" rig technically. All imo.
> ...


 
  
 -Agreed, I'm always looking for more documentation. Thankfully, most of the programs and workflows I use aren't private dev tools, so there's usually an answer or at least a clue available after a little bit of googling.
 I can understand that as a personal experience. Personally, my experience was that the changes were nice but not overly substantial. Worth the time and money for sure, but I wasn't getting the same experience as those who said the Anax mod put the headphones in a new league or anything.
 Oops, when I said "from what I've heard", I meant from other people. Didn't mean to mislead. I'm eagerly (yet somewhat impatiently) awaiting Anax 3 like everyone else. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -Oh definitely, the HD800 isn't the last word in technicality (one of the last, but not the last), but it does act as a perfect storm for my current preferences.


----------



## Maxx134

wildcatsare1 said:


> Daryl,
> 
> Thank you for the offer, unfortunately I am about 4 hours away in Western Kentucky. I will be sending Todd's HEK to you this coming Wednesday.
> 
> I listen to mostly classic rock, classical and jazz. No EDM, rap and I am allergic to brickwalled current rock.



You truley need to listen for yourself to know if the HD800 really are for you because they are very component dependant and also it's your ears that have to like them..

Why dont you try Amazon(!) as they have return policy.
Maybe you can get them shipped before the HE1k leaves..

Even so, for me the stock hd800 is not my taste.

It must be modded to bring out that bass..

My HD800 is hard wired with Norne Draug2 cable 
And that gives noticably more bass than stock or Endorphen hard wired..
Maybe a tad too much(!)

Thats why the HE1k could not keep up except bass rumble.
Two differently hardwired and modded HD800s (mine & my friends) slaughtered the HE1K in all aspects but bass rumble.
Ok maybe not slaughtered,
more like won out by a noticable margin.
So yes I "cheated" when I said they beat the HE1k, because they were modded.


Yet I would not say the HD800 have any lead coming stock out the box, unless your playing classical..


----------



## Wildcatsare1

maxx134 said:


> You truley need to listen for yourself to know if the HD800 really are for you because they are very component dependant and also it's your ears that have to like them..
> 
> Why dont you try Amazon(!) as they have return policy.
> Maybe you can get them shipped before the HE1k leaves..
> ...




@Maxx134, thank you! The HD800s Todd is sending me are his modified pair, I'll to call and have him tell me what he has changed.

I am also a big fan of the Draug 2 Cables, I have them on my 560s. Who hard wired your HD800s with the Draug 2?


----------



## Maxx134

preproman said:


> johnjen said:
> 
> 
> > Of all of the anax mod varients I had heard (there were 4 that I tried) the shelf liner was the most 'successful' of that bunch.
> ...



At the least, I would have the HD800 hardwired.
That is number one.
Number two, is that there is absolutlely no secret to the SAA mods and I did them all already & posted in the HD800 mod threads..


Edit:
sorry I hate to sound cynical or know-it-all when I certainly do not..

But nevertheless I did all the mods and added some my own.


----------



## fire2368

Thinking of rebuying these headphones, what serial number range should I be looking for (sounds best)?


----------



## MacedonianHero

A few wick points:

1. With everyone here re-buying the HD800s, I'm sure glad I've held onto my 5 year pair all these years.
2. I've heard HD800s from 6000 - 20 000 in term of serial numbers and they all sound the same.


----------



## rawrster

macedonianhero said:


> A few wick points:
> 
> 1. *With everyone here re-buying the HD800s,* I'm sure glad I've held onto my 5 year pair all these years.
> 2. I've heard HD800s from 6000 - 20 000 in term of serial numbers and they all sound the same.


 
 It's funny that's happening lately. I just pulled the trigger on purchasing a HD800 again. They were my first totl headphone and I regretted selling them since. I just have to wait before they are mine again  I have a better amp this time  around so excited to get them back.
  
 My first pair was a low SN under 1k and I've heard many different ranges of SN and never heard much of a difference.


----------



## lukeap69

Glad I held on to them. Now if ever I needed to keep only one HP, it will be the HD800. I'm specifically happy with the DAC-19>Rok>HD800 combination.


----------



## Sorrodje

preproman said:


> I agree with you on most point.  I think where we have difference of opinions are with "Jazz"  now Jazz is a very large genre. So we both could be talking about different Jazz genres.  Is Contemporary Jazz the Miles Davis, Sonny Rolling, Charlie Parker, Bill Evans, Charles Mingus, Chet Baker ? ( I like "some" of that type)   I don't like the Smooth Jazz type.  I like Cassandra Wilson, Carmen Lundy, Carmen McRae, Ella, Eva, Dee Dee Bridgwater, Eliane Elias.




Yea jazz is a quite large and diverse genre. For me contemporary jazz is the jazz from nowadays. musicians like Joshua redman , chick corea, Roy hargrove, marsalis Bros, Keith Jarret , Dave Holland... and European one with for example act and ecm labels. That's what I listen mostly.

If I listened more vocal jazz as you do, I'd probably do different audio choices. That'really good with my hd800 but that sounds definitely better with a he-6.


----------



## JaZZ

maxx134 said:


> ...there is absolutlely no secret to the SAA mods and I did them all already & posted in the HD800 mod threads..


 
  
 Can you point me to the mod? I couldn't find it right away.


----------



## Maxx134

macedonianhero said:


> A few wick points:
> 
> 1. With everyone here re-buying the HD800s, I'm sure glad I've held onto my 5 year pair all these years.
> 2. I've heard HD800s from 6000 - 20 000 in term of serial numbers and they all sound the same.



I agree same here with two HD800 tried.

I think with dissolution not any better headphones out, with new ones more of a side grade or downgrade, plus the anticipation of new annax3.0 ,
the HD800 is a smart decision.



jazz said:


> maxx134 said:
> 
> 
> > ...there is absolutlely no secret to the SAA mods and I did them all already
> ...




http://www.head-fi.org/t/577530/hd800-anaxilus-mod/200_20#post_11334857
thats an old post and all mods are achieveble and recomended.
Edit: 
Unless you are not good with your hands then I would get someone else to do it for you.


----------



## JaZZ

Thank you!


----------



## Maxx134

drez said:


> EQ is fine but like anything else it has tradeoff - for EQ this is ringing or artefacts from the digital filtering (generally pretty transparent though).  Warm amps have tradeoff.  Warm cables have tradeoff.  Anax mod sort of has tradeoffs.
> 
> My philosophy I don't like active solutions and prefer to address the problem (ringing) directly so I prefer modification of the headphone as a matter of philosophy.



I agree with this appoach to treat the problem at its source.


----------



## paulchiu

macedonianhero said:


> A few wick points:
> 
> 1. With everyone here re-buying the HD800s, I'm sure glad I've held onto my 5 year pair all these years.
> 2. I've heard HD800s from 6000 - 20 000 in term of serial numbers and they all sound the same.


 
  
 Mine is #666.  It's probably one from the first year of production.
 When I lost my test frequency response charts, Sennheiser sent me a duplicate copy for free some years later.
 I heard some recent HD800 and really cannot hear any difference.


----------



## pearljam50000

#666? Metal music must sound amazing on it (;


----------



## JaZZ

The pair (#7310) «inherited» from a friend sounds distinctly brighter than my pair (#1559). I have attributed it to the obviously newer, more rigid earpads, although they're said to make no difference (hard to believe).


----------



## paulchiu

jazz said:


> The pair (#7310) «inherited» from a friend sounds distinctly brighter than my pair (#1559). I have attributed it to the obviously newer, more rigid earpads, although they're said to make no difference (hard to believe).


 
  
 I am on my third pair of pads on my #666 HD800.  The most recent are a tad more comforming to my ears than the last.  Sonically, I hear no difference.  I kept the original pair of pads for reference.


----------



## upstateguy

macedonianhero said:


> A few wick points:
> 
> 1. With everyone here re-buying the HD800s, I'm sure glad I've held onto my 5 year pair all these years.
> 2. I've heard HD800s from 6000 - 20 000 in term of serial numbers and they all sound the same.


 
  
 Hey Peter how are you doing, it's been a while?  Do you ever hear from Sharose?
  
 I haven't been following the 800s, but from reading your post, it seems that people are saying that the sound of the 800s changed....
  
 I also see that there are groups of guys who are heavily into buggering up $1500 headphones because they think they know how to make a headphone sound better than Sennheriser's design team.  And of course, once these mods are done, they can't A-B anymore, so it always sounds "better".  LOL, come on guys, EQ instead. If you can't fix it with EQ, it can't be fixed, get a different headphone.  EQ is real, magic cables, not so real.  <--- just my opinion


----------



## wahsmoh

DAC is the most important above cables and amp (as long as you meet power requirements). I have heard the HD800 and it has sounded anywhere from bright and uninviting (Sennheiser booth HDVD800) to incredible and very holographic soundstaging but still not "wet" enough in the mids or bass like planars I have heard side by side.
  
 The HD800 though is on another level from all other headphones when it comes to comfort and soundstage.


----------



## paulchiu

pearljam50000 said:


> #666? Metal music must sound amazing on it (;


 
  
 Highway to Hell rocks with #666


----------



## Maxx134

jazz said:


> The pair (#7310) «inherited» from a friend sounds distinctly brighter than my pair (#1559). I have attributed it to the obviously newer, more rigid earpads, although they're said to make no difference (hard to believe).



Oh yes! 
The pads certainly make a difference in fact one friend chose to remove extra padding we tried on his as the change is not always optimal..




upstateguy said:


> macedonianhero said:
> 
> 
> > A few wick points:
> ...



AAA!
Every company always deviates from optimal design due to many reasons even not financial..

As for me, I am certain of every change I did for the better, 
as I had acess to a second HD800(and a third) to compare.
I always used my set to mod and friends set to compare.

Edit: 
Also, EQ does not adress the problem at the source..


----------



## Zoom25

Still having lots of fun with my setup here:

  
 Higher res Imgur: http://i.imgur.com/Je8S5rI.jpg


----------



## ruthieandjohn

wahsmoh said:


> DAC is the most important above cables and amp (as long as you meet power requirements). I have heard the HD800 and it has sounded anywhere from bright and uninviting (Sennheiser booth HDVD800) to incredible and very holographic soundstaging but still not "wet" enough in the mids or bass like planars I have heard side by side.
> 
> The HD800 though is on another level from all other headphones when it comes to comfort and soundstage.


 
 Do I understand that you find the HD 800 to be bright and uninviting with the Sennheiser HDVD 800 DAC/amp?  And that it can sound incredible with holographic sound stage with another DAC/amp combination?
  
 If I understood, can you tell me the DAC/amp that makes that improvement?  Thanks!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

zoom25 said:


> Still having lots of fun with my setup here:




What is this?


----------



## Zoom25

wildcatsare1 said:


> What is this?


 

 Dangerous Music Source: DAC + Pre-amp + Headphone Amplifier (x2)
  
 I use it with headphones and monitors/speakers/subwoofers. I use it to power anything from my Apple EarPods to HD 800. Anything in my sig can get powered from the Dangerous Source. Very transparent and musical sounding.


----------



## paulchiu

zoom25 said:


> Dangerous Music Source: DAC + Pre-amp + Headphone Amplifier (x2)
> 
> I use it with headphones and monitors/speakers/subwoofers. I use it to power anything from my Apple EarPods to HD 800. Anything in my sig can get powered from the Dangerous Source. Very transparent and musical sounding.


 
  
 Great to feed musician boxes like Genelec 8050.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

zoom25 said:


> Dangerous Music Source: DAC + Pre-amp + Headphone Amplifier (x2)
> 
> I use it with headphones and monitors/speakers/subwoofers. I use it to power anything from my Apple EarPods to HD 800. Anything in my sig can get powered from the Dangerous Source. Very transparent and musical sounding.




Thanks, looks interesting!


----------



## JaZZ

upstateguy said:


> Come on guys, EQ instead. If you can't fix it with EQ, it can't be fixed, get a different headphone.  EQ is real, magic cables, not so real.  <--- just my opinion


 
  
 I'm all for equalizing, it can do wonders – has transformed my HD 800 to an electrostat, just better! Well, not quite, but it's not far from the truth. The gain in terms of smoothness, resolution and realism is remarkable, despite my parallel effort to care for problems at the source.
  
 Cables have an effect on the sound as well to my ears, although it's more limited. Interestingly I have developed a strong preference for the (shortened) stock cable versus the Silver Dragon now that I have the equalizer of my FiiO X5 (II) at my disposal.


----------



## Zoom25

paulchiu said:


> Great to feed musician boxes like Genelec 8050.


 

 Yup! Among other 3-way contraptions


----------



## mikoss

upstateguy said:


> I also see that there are groups of guys who are heavily into buggering up $1500 headphones because they think they know how to make a headphone sound better than Sennheriser's design team.  And of course, once these mods are done, they can't A-B anymore, so it always sounds "better".  LOL, come on guys, EQ instead. If you can't fix it with EQ, it can't be fixed, get a different headphone.  EQ is real, magic cables, not so real.  <--- just my opinion


 





 If you're speaking about Anax's mods, they were measured and the results are posted on the internet. Research yourself... have you heard of a CSD? 
  
 There is a lot of thought and intent put into his modifications, as well as the measurements.


----------



## kothganesh

Upstateguy, the mods that you refer to are reversible. Even with ten thumbs, I have tried them myself. IME, the mods make the HD 800 even better. I also don't like EQ at all so that plays as a factor too. YMMV.


----------



## MacedonianHero

upstateguy said:


> Hey Peter how are you doing, it's been a while?  Do you ever hear from Sharose?
> 
> I haven't been following the 800s, but from reading your post, it seems that people are saying that the sound of the 800s changed....
> 
> I also see that there are groups of guys who are heavily into buggering up $1500 headphones because they think they know how to make a headphone sound better than Sennheriser's design team.  And of course, once these mods are done, they can't A-B anymore, so it always sounds "better".  LOL, come on guys, EQ instead. If you can't fix it with EQ, it can't be fixed, get a different headphone.  EQ is real, magic cables, not so real.  <--- just my opinion


 
  
 Hey Eric...things are good. Hope you're doing well too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Been a while. Funny this thread has brought a few old time friends around (you and Marcel).
  
 I've heard several HD800s from 6000ish to 20,000ish and they've all been virtually identical. Gotta give it to the boys (and gals) at Sennheiser...they are on the ball. Agreed with your EQ comments...makes life much easier.
  
 I haven't talked to Shahrose in a while. Looks like he's done med school and is now in residency...so not much time for audio I suppose?
  
 Cheers!


----------



## ziggysp2000

It is of course very interesting that many people end up 1) buying HD800 again after their sell their initial pair and 2) many hear no difference in the vast serial number range. If that's true why do they come back? There must be a part of the HD800 spell that doesn't wear off so easily. Having a pair myself, I absolutely understand, just interesting is all. I'll never part with mine, and everything is compared to them (which clearly is often not fair).
  
 Of course I gather each pair will have a slightly different curve and that potentially makes a difference... if it does, almost seems like you need a tad bit of luck maybe?
  
 I have never tried the mods, mainly because I've never felt the need to improve the sound. Back with the Soloist SL if I found them bright I went to HE-500, though that happened rarely. Now that they are plugged into BHA-1 I basically never do that. Seems I may have gotten away lucky, since BHA-1 is not $3000, nor is it a tube amp!  I guess some love certain aspects but not often not the frequency curve, the latter being very naturally likable to my ear. I do consider myself lucky about that. Maybe someday I will try the Anax someday mod just for fun, as an experiment, though since I've had those cans for over a year now, knew about the mod since before acquisition and still haven't done it....
  
 Certainly not opposed to it though, the perceived benefit just doesn't outweigh the laziness / effort required  Now I think maybe after having listened to them so much, I may not like a mod just because my ear is tuned to the unmodded sound.


----------



## Naim.F.C

ziggysp2000 said:


> It is of course very interesting that many people end up 1) buying HD800 again after their sell their initial pair and 2) many hear no difference in the vast serial number range. If that's true why do they come back? There must be a part of the HD800 spell that doesn't wear off so easily. Having a pair myself, I absolutely understand, just interesting is all. I'll never part with mine, and everything is compared to them (which clearly is often not fair).
> 
> Of course I gather each pair will have a slightly different curve and that potentially makes a difference... if it does, almost seems like you need a tad bit of luck maybe?
> 
> ...


 

 I can offer you my own personal answer to that.
  
 Recently I've been playing with EQ's with different music software (seems to work much better in Amarra and other music players than it does in default iTunes, the latter tends to lend to more distortion). I'm hoping I can very very subtly EQ tweak the HD800 in to essentially sounding closer to my ideal, whilst retaining it's qualities (wide soundstage and analytical focus). Last I used it, it was almost there, it just lacked a tiny bit of mid bass impact and fun factor (that the T1's at the time happened to offer me, not without their own flaws mind, such as a lack of sub bass quantity). I'm personally hoping I can EQ these things in, to be used dependant on the track (modern music in particular tends to lend itself to mid bass oomph), and that will hopefully 'complete' them so to speak.
  
 What I find is that to some extents, all headphones can be tweaked through EQ's and mod's to sound somewhat different, and closer to one's personal preference in many areas. Because you're dealing with a linear signal, that is essentially only in stereo, there's only so much leeway you have in terms of balancing. Increase the bass, you lose out on air and make the overall sound warmer, or more congested, increase the upper frequencies or lower the bass, and it's the opposite etc. Generally no substantial tweak is without some sort of result or cost. Now obviously certain headphones do this better or worse than others, and that's where I think the physical differences amongst cans also make such a vital difference. That is, the housing itself, the technology, the dampening, the shape and size of the cups, the angles, the size of the drivers etc. No product better illustrates this than the Fostex T50RP's, which have been completely transformed by many, in to top tier sounding cans, with mods alone!
  
 Here is where I think the HD800 sets itself apart from other cans. The drivers and cups are huge, the housing and driver is elaborate and intricately designed, the drivers also angled etc. I think some of these things likely attribute towards the HD800 having the expansive and vast soundstage that it does. Perhaps the most holographic and largest soundstage of any headphone currently available? That's a pretty bold claim to command, and also the main reason I bought the cans again.


----------



## Sorrodje

I see  two reasons:
  
 - Many people come to HD800 from more bassy/funny/warm headphones and are disappointed to not find what they're used to. I often think that HD800s kind of sound is an acquired taste.  
 - Before the first Buy and the second/third/last one, people upgrade their gear... that helps to like the HD800 better. 
  
 My 2 cents.


----------



## joshk4

sorrodje said:


> I see  two reasons:
> 
> - Many people come to HD800 from more bassy/funny/warm headphones and are disappointed to not find what they're used to. I often think that HD800s kind of sound is an acquired taste.
> - Before the first Buy and the second/third/last one, people upgrade their gear... that helps to like the HD800 better.
> ...




I guess I think I might be the very few that loved the hd 800 on first listen  
(compared to T1, PM1, he 560 switching back and forth). T1 was close.


----------



## Sorrodje

joshk4 said:


> I guess I think I might be the very few that loved the hd 800 on first listen
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm in the same  situation. I liked the HD800 since the first time as well. Thought to sell it a few times during the first 6 month though.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

One of the measures of manufacturing quality is lack of variation, just as a quality of good archers is to put all the arrows into the same tight circle on the target.  With that reproducibility, it becomes a lot easier to consistently rectify a shortcoming (e.g., too little bass, or 3 inches left of bulls eye).
  
 Simply watching the video posted somewhere around here of Sennheiser building the HD 800 can convince you of its manufacturing quality.  
  
 I also think that a lot of its sound is determined by the amp that feeds it.  Perhaps those folks who buy it, sell it, then buy it again are also moving up the amp quality chain as they mature ("audiophonically" speaking), and the second HD 800 gets a better amp and shines.


----------



## JaZZ

upstateguy said:


> Hey Peter how are you doing, it's been a while?  Do you ever hear from Sharose?
> 
> I haven't been following the 800s, but from reading your post, it seems that people are saying that the sound of the 800s changed....
> 
> *I also see that there are groups of guys who are heavily into buggering up $1500 headphones because they think they know how to make a headphone sound better than Sennheriser's design team.*  And of course, once these mods are done, they can't A-B anymore, so it always sounds "better".  LOL, come on guys, EQ instead. If you can't fix it with EQ, it can't be fixed, get a different headphone.  EQ is real, magic cables, not so real.  <--- just my opinion


 
  
 I have no idea how I could miss this statement of yours during my first response. Here's my take: Yes, I can make the $1500 HD 800 sound better than Sennheiser designed it – according to my sonic preferences. Why don't all top-tier headphones sound the same, given that all manufacturers know how to design a perfect headphone? Because they fail to do so. I'm one of the first HD 800 modders – the «Anaxilus» mod is just a copy of my modification, a plagiarism, so to speak. I felt the need for it because of the obvious treble emphasis and the hinted coldness arising from it. Damping the reflective surfaces within the housing helped a lot. In fact the mod is not just for equalizing frequency response, it also suppresses reflections interacting with the original sound waves from the membrane, making for higher signal accuracy.
  
 So why wasn't Sennheiser aware of that? I honestly can't say. But the issue is obvious from the perspective of logic, wouldn't you say so? Now I'm one who is particularly sensitive to near-field reflections which I have begun to fight during my speaker-builder area, and I know how harmful they are for accuracy and imaging. On the other hand I don't advocate a dry sound characteristic which can result from such measures, but I favor a liquid-smooth sound from pure resolution instead of signal-smearing.
  
  


macedonianhero said:


> Hey Eric...things are good. Hope you're doing well too!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Peter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Obviously I'm back, athough it was determined to not «waste» as much time as I did in the past on Head-Fi – which is a real hype and money-spending machine, but of course also a place to get help and to help. It was relatively easy as I was quite happy with my gear and still am. After all Head-Fi has «helped» me to buy the Hugo, the SE846 and two FiiO players in the meantime...


----------



## TokenGesture

I've been getting back into classical music recently and managed to find a great deal on these. Sounding glorious with my Hugo and Aurix.


----------



## JaZZ

tokengesture said:


> I've been getting back into classical music recently and managed to find a great deal on these. Sounding glorious with my Hugo and Aurix.


 
  
 You know that the Aurix is dispensable when you have the Hugo? In fact it's a bunch of additional electronics in the signal path which does nothing but corrupting the original signal.


----------



## TokenGesture

jazz said:


> You know that the Aurix is dispensable when you have the Hugo? In fact it's a bunch of additional electronics in the signal path which does nothing but corrupting the original signal.


 yeah will try that too


----------



## paradoxper

The Anax mod is based off mods by jaZZ and Arnaud. Credit was given. So it's not a plagiarism, so to speak.


----------



## whirlwind

wildcatsare1 said:


> If anybody is looking for an exceptional Audio Dealer please consider TTVJ. Just spoke to Todd, and he is going to send me his personal HD800s to try in my system next week...!


 
 congrats


----------



## JaZZ

paradoxper said:


> The Anax mod is based off mods by jaZZ and Arnaud. Credit was given. So it's not a plagiarism, so to speak.


 
  
 There was a mention of _JaZZ_ and _Arnaud_ in the first post of the thread created by _Purrin_. Why had there to be a new thread for the very same mod addressing the very same issue with about the same material as proposed by Arnaud in my own thread? What would you say if your «invention» was marketed under the name of an emulator? BTW, I've tried foam and found velvet to provide much better results.


----------



## paradoxper

jazz said:


> There was a mention of _JaZZ_ and _Arnaud_ in the first post of the thread created by _Purrin_. Why had there to be a new thread for the very same mod addressing the very same issue with about the same material as proposed by Arnaud in my own thread? What would you say if your «invention» was marketed under the name of an emulator? BTW, I've tried foam and found velvet to provide much better results.


 
 Such self-aggrandizing. Call every T50RP modder a ******* plagiarist.


----------



## mikoss

jazz said:


> There was a mention of _JaZZ_ and _Arnaud_ in the first post of the thread created by _Purrin_. Why had there to be a new thread for the very same mod addressing the very same issue with about the same material as proposed by Arnaud in my own thread? What would you say if your «invention» was marketed under the name of an emulator? BTW, I've tried foam and found velvet to provide much better results.


 
 Thank you for your contributions! I will refer to it us the JAnaxaud mod.


----------



## JaZZ

paradoxper said:


> Such self-aggrandizing. Call every T50RP modder a ******* plagiarist.


 
  
 What? I never said imitating my mod was a plagiarism – why else would I publish it on Head-fi!
  


mikoss said:


> Thank you for your contributions! I will refer to it us the JAnaxaud mod.


 
  
 Already better! And that's the point.


----------



## wink

Quotearadoxical 





> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > There was a mention of _JaZZ_ and _Arnaud_ in the first post of the thread created by _Purrin_. Why had there to be a new thread for the very same mod addressing the very same issue with about the same material as proposed by Arnaud in my own thread? What would you say if your «invention» was marketed under the name of an emulator? BTW, I've tried foam and found velvet to provide much better results.
> ...


 
  
 Now, now boys.......   Creativity felt at ten paces should settle this.....


----------



## wink




----------



## upstateguy

> <snip>
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Two things pop out at me.
  
 First, you say every change made the sound better.  Sounds more like some kind of expectation.
  
 Second you say EQ does not address the* problem* at the source and I can agree with that regarding the effect ear pads have, but not regarding general sound tweaking.
  
 Btw, using the word "problem" is a problem.  It infers that the 800s are somehow defective.
  


jazz said:


> upstateguy said:
> 
> 
> > Come on guys, EQ instead. If you can't fix it with EQ, it can't be fixed, get a different headphone.  EQ is real, magic cables, not so real.  <--- just my opinion
> ...


 
  
 I agree that you can't EQ a headphone into something it isn't, and I also agree that it's remarkable what you can do with EQ.
  
 Magic cables, I don't think so.  We know how and why EQ changes the sound.  Why magic cables should do anything escapes me.


----------



## upstateguy

mikoss said:


> upstateguy said:
> 
> 
> > I also see that there are groups of guys who are heavily into buggering up $1500 headphones because they think they know how to make a headphone sound better than Sennheriser's design team.  And of course, once these mods are done, they can't A-B anymore, so it always sounds "better".  LOL, come on guys, EQ instead. If you can't fix it with EQ, it can't be fixed, get a different headphone.  EQ is real, magic cables, not so real.  <--- just my opinion
> ...


 
  
 Just talking about buggering up $1500 headphones.
  
 Even hurts the secondary market.  The last thing I'd want to buy is a pair of 800s someone buggered up, then put back together and is now selling them without full disclosure.


----------



## JaZZ

upstateguy said:


> (...) *I agree that you can't EQ a headphone into something it isn't,* and I also agree that it's remarkable what you can do with EQ.
> 
> Magic cables, I don't think so.  We know how and why EQ changes the sound.  Why magic cables should do anything escapes me.


 
  
 To some degree you can, but you can't make up for *all* flaws.
  
 Honestly, I have no idea why «magic cables» do what they do (to my ears).
  


upstateguy said:


> Just talking about buggering up $1500 headphones. *Even hurts the secondary market.* The last thing I'd want to buy is a pair of 800s someone buggered up, then put back together and is now selling them without full disclosure.


 
  
 Why do we have to take care for the secondary market? Do-it-yourself is good for your own creativity and your wallet – and a small contribution to withstand the widespread consuming mentality.
  
 To the last point: The mod is fully and tracelessly reversible.


----------



## Maxx134

upstateguy said:


> Two things pop out at me.
> 
> First, you say every change made the sound better. Sounds more like some kind of expectation.
> 
> Magic cables, I don't think so. We know how and why EQ changes the sound. Why magic cables should do anything escapes me.




I can understand fully as I have been there about your "majic cables" view..
The difference largely lies in the elimination of the stock connector and internal wiring..
I think this observation may be specific to the HD800.

In next NY meet I will bring my HD800 for comparison if anybody want to hear the bass increase mainly due to "Hardwireing" the cables.

I tested against 2 other HD800:
1- same cable not hardwired
2- hardwired with other cable

Both have a different yet similar punchy bass due to a piece of the annax trapeziod installed,
but neither has elevated bass level of mine that extends to mids.

Oh, and your correct I was not clear..

I meant to say all the changes * I KEPT* was for the better..

Many trials of changing the annax materials were a failure or "closed in" the soundstage,
So I ended up with what I posted there..


----------



## upstateguy

jazz said:


> upstateguy said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Peter how are you doing, it's been a while?  Do you ever hear from Sharose?
> ...


 
  
 The operative words being *according to* *your sonic preferences*.  I don't see why Sennheiser had to be aware of your proclivities.
  


jazz said:


> upstateguy said:
> 
> 
> > (...) *I agree that you can't EQ a headphone into something it isn't,* and I also agree that it's remarkable what you can do with EQ.
> ...


 
  
 Maybe it's just me, but the last thing I'd ever want to buy is a pair of 800s that someone buggered up, then put back together.


----------



## Maxx134

jazz said:


> BTW, I've tried foam and found velvet to provide much better results...



Awww crapt, now I gotta go get me some velevet?!!
dam 



wink said:


>



OMG that is so funny I almost choked!
Im sure its just a misinterpretation of the english language..


----------



## JaZZ

upstateguy said:


> The operative words being *according to* *your sonic preferences*.  I don't see why Sennheiser had to be aware of your proclivities.
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but the last thing I'd ever want to buy is a pair of 800s that someone buggered up, then put back together.


 
   
 Yes, mods have the goal to adapt the sonic characteristic of a headphone to the personal preferences in the first place. Maybe you like the sound of  the HD 800, but prefer it to be somewhat closer to the SR-009. Buy both? Or mod the HD 800? The latter solution is cheaper and maybe brings you closer to what you want instead of constantly having to swap between the two.
  
 But the bolded part of the text was explicitely referring to the *reflective surfaces* the HD originally has. Are there really beneficial reflections? Not to my ears and not when the goal is accuracy.
  
  
 Quote:


> Maybe it's just me, but the last thing I'd ever want to buy is a pair of 800s that someone buggered up, then put back together.


 
  
 So even a change of earpads or headband pad would be too much risk for you? That's about the same degree of alteration as the «Anaxilus» mod.


----------



## upstateguy

maxx134 said:


> upstateguy said:
> 
> 
> > Two things pop out at me.
> ...


 
  
 Please correct me if I'm wrong but I remember all the complaining when headphone cables were hard wired and not easily replaceable.  
  
 So Sennheiser gives us replaceable cables and of course, it's not good enough.  Hardwire those bad boys!  And the best is that it....wait for it...... _increases the bass_.  I don't know why it should, but of course it does.
  
 I had to replace my 650 cables once.  Bought them for $12 direct from Sennheiser online, unplugged the old ones, plugged in the new ones and done.
  
 I rolled a chair over my 880 cable a few years ago, and that will have to go back to Beyer if it ever becomes a problem.  Not so easy.


----------



## JaZZ

maxx134 said:


> Awww crapt, now I gotta go get me some velvet?!!


 
  
 Maybe you like the characteristic with foam better? The preference of velvet is acoustically justifiable, though. So I guess you haven't tried both. I just hope you're not making fun of me.


----------



## Maxx134

jazz said:


> maxx134 said:
> 
> 
> > Awww crapt, now I gotta go get me some velvet?!!
> ...



No way I would never make fun of anyone.
I try 2 keep a light tone as there is much testosterone in these threads lol.

To be honest I didnt know about you and the velvet!


----------



## Maxx134

upstateguy said:


> ...So Sennheiser gives us replaceable cables and of course, it's not good enough. Hardwire those bad boys! And the best is that it....wait for it...... increases the bass. I don't know why it should, but of course it does.





The problem here is that I am talking of a specific scenario & U are complaining in general..

I can agree about the advantage of cable swapping with plugs,
but I am past that in searching for sonic gains instead..

If anyone doubts my bass increase
edit (unfinished post)
if anyone doubts they can hear it themselves at the mext future NYmeet


----------



## upstateguy

jazz said:


> upstateguy said:
> 
> 
> > The operative words being *according to* *your sonic preferences*.  I don't see why Sennheiser had to be aware of your proclivities.
> ...


 
  
 Because they have similar sound signatures to start with, you're claiming that you can mod an 800 into an electrostatic?  OK, if you say so.
  
 On expensive headphones, I draw the line at earpads and headbands.  No opening up the headphones, taking out Loctited screw, messing with the drivers or changing the factory wiring.
  
 Not certain about "reflective surfaces".  Is Sennheiser aware of this or do they exist in the same way that wire has a sound?


----------



## upstateguy

maxx134 said:


> upstateguy said:
> 
> 
> > ...So Sennheiser gives us replaceable cables and of course, it's not good enough. Hardwire those bad boys! And the best is that it....wait for it...... increases the bass. I don't know why it should, but of course it does.
> ...


 
  
 Here's my thinking on this.  If the 800s actually sounded much better hard wired, (and I don't know why that should be), don't you think Sennheiser would have discovered it during development and produced the 800 with a wired cable like the T-1?  The converse would be that Sennheiser knew that the 800s sounded better hard wired and intentionally sacrificed sound quality for replaceable cables..... or better yet, for replaceable expensive "boutique" cables that they could sell to cable believers as upgrades.


----------



## JaZZ

upstateguy said:


> Because they have similar sound signatures to start with, *you're claiming that you can mod an 800 into an electrostatic?*  OK, if you say so.
> 
> On expensive headphones, I draw the line at earpads and headbands.  No opening up the headphones, taking out Loctited screw, messing with the drivers or changing the factory wiring.
> 
> Not certain about "reflective surfaces".  Is Sennheiser aware of this or do they exist in the same way that wire has a sound?


 
  
 No, that's not what I wanted to express. Although it has a little truth to it, but it rather takes equalizing than the damping mods to reach this goal. I have two electrostats which serve as a reference (for electrostatic sound, not ideal sound). The SR-009 was just an arbitrary example for a headphone with a different sonic characteristic of a kind one would want to bring the HD 800 closer to. You're certainly aware that there are countless characteristics among the best and most expensive headphones you can choose from. But what if you want something in between two of them? Are you not allowed to modify an existing headphone accordingly? Is there an unwritten law that you have to content yourself with what's available on the market? Because each of the corresponding manufacturers knows what they're doing!?
  
 Do hard surfaces reflect sound waves or not? I don't think that's disputed in any way. It's even been measured in the case at hand.


----------



## koiloco

maxx134 said:


> The problem here is that I am talking of a specific scenario & U are complaining in general..
> 
> I can agree about the advantage of cable swapping with plugs,
> but I am past that in searching for sonic gains instead..
> ...


 
 Have you done a blind A/B test or when you compared the different HD800s, you knew when you put your hardwired HD800 on?


----------



## koiloco

upstateguy said:


> Here's my thinking on this.  If the 800s actually sounded much better hard wired, (and I don't know why that should be), don't you think Sennheiser would have discovered it during development and produced the 800 with a wired cable like the T-1?  The converse would be that Sennheiser knew that the 800s sounded better hard wired and intentionally sacrificed sound quality for replaceable cables..... or better yet, for replaceable expensive "boutique" cables that they could sell to cable believers as upgrades.


 
 Striking a balance for all potential customers is the key in industrial design.  IMO, the HD800 is already a very impressive pair of HP. Sennheiser might be aware of the minute SQ increase of hard wiring but they wouldn't do it cuz the tiny difference (most owners can't tell) is not worth the usability of a detachable cable...  Not everyone is crazy like us here on HF, right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I am fine with stock cable too.  My ears can detect differences between stock vs Anax HD800 but with cables, i just can't.  Maybe, my ears suck or I don't have enough faith.


----------



## upstateguy

jazz said:


> upstateguy said:
> 
> 
> > Because they have similar sound signatures to start with, *you're claiming that you can mod an 800 into an electrostatic?*  OK, if you say so.
> ...


 
  
 I think if you have sufficient money to bugger around the insides of expensive headphones, it's your prerogative. 
  
 All I said was that I don't do it....... 
  
 Regarding your "hard Surfaces".  Do you think Sennheiser is as aware of reflections as you are?


----------



## mikoss

I just think it's hilarious someone is offended that people found the treble to be a touch hot, modified the headphones without causing any damage or anything that isn't irreversible, tested the modifications, and quantified how the modified headphones helped to objectively make them sound more linear (less emphasis on the hot treble)...

Fwiw I tested the modded HD-800's and bought them that way. I much preferred them to the stock, which I also tested and could have purchased. I really doubt anyone is selling these without mentioning they have the mod installed. If second hand buyers of the 800's are worried, they can check for themselves.


----------



## upstateguy

koiloco said:


> upstateguy said:
> 
> 
> > Here's my thinking on this.  If the 800s actually sounded much better hard wired, (and I don't know why that should be), don't you think Sennheiser would have discovered it during development and produced the 800 with a wired cable like the T-1?  The converse would be that Sennheiser knew that the 800s sounded better hard wired and intentionally sacrificed sound quality for replaceable cables..... or* better yet, for replaceable expensive "boutique" cables that they could sell to cable believers as upgrades.*
> ...


 
  
 Go figure !!!   CH 800 S


----------



## upstateguy

mikoss said:


> I just think it's hilarious someone is offended that people found the treble to be a touch hot, modified the headphones without causing any damage or anything that isn't irreversible, tested the modifications, and quantified how the modified headphones helped to objectively make them sound more linear (less emphasis on the hot treble)...
> 
> Fwiw* I tested the modded HD-800's and bought them that way*. I much preferred them to the stock, which I also tested and could have purchased. I really doubt anyone is selling these without mentioning they have the mod installed. If second hand buyers of the 800's are worried, they can check for themselves.


 
  
 What mods were done to the headphones you bought?


----------



## JamieMcC

Can't say I have ever felt the need for modifying my own HD800.   I do wonder sometimes about comments like "treble emphasis, coldness" etc (as examples)  as this is something I personally definitely do not associate with my own HD800 experiance.  Perhaps I will try it one day just to see what effect it has.


----------



## JaZZ

upstateguy said:


> I think if you have sufficient money to bugger around the insides of expensive headphones, it's your prerogative.
> 
> *All I said was that I don't do it....... *
> 
> Regarding your "hard Surfaces".  Do you think Sennheiser is as aware of reflections as you are?


 
  
*Really? *




  
 You're much too cautious in this regard. There's no harm done to the poor headphones!
  
 I'm quite sure that they are aware. I suppose they consider it a minor flaw, moreover some people like the sparkle it produces. Also, they have to respect durability and practicability, so to apply layers of velvet wouldn't be a realistic option. That's where the hobbyist modders have an advantage.


----------



## Maxx134

koiloco said:


> maxx134 said:
> 
> 
> > The problem here is that I am talking of a specific scenario
> ...



I understand the value of blind A/B test for those who want more than objective impressions..

THE DIFFERENCES ARE TOO LARGE AND OBVIOUS.

I invite everyone to hear my headphones at next NYmeet to see.

I not saying they are great or best or good..

I only saying they are hardwired and have more OBVIOUS bass than stock..


A blind A/B test would be redundant as it is not small difference.

edit:
I forgot to note that I am not using the annax trapezoid piece which obviously gives bass boost to the other two HD800 that mine beat anyways in overall bass..(!)


----------



## upstateguy

maxx134 said:


> koiloco said:
> 
> 
> > maxx134 said:
> ...


 
  
 Have you done anything besides hard wiring?  Could you post a picture?  I'd like to see what it looks like.


----------



## chuck8403

I like to read all of the opinions and take in the differences. My HD800s sound fine to me with no EQ through either my Schiit Valhalla 2 or Asgard 2. I have read something recently that spoke to why what I hear and what someone else hears could be so different. I like the HD800s for the clear sound. I just seems crisp. 
  
 Anyway, below may be some good reads for everyone to consider.
  
http://stereos.about.com/od/Headphones/ss/Why-Headphones-Sound-Different-to-Different-People.htm#step1
  
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16343460/AES%20137%20The%20Influecne%20of%20Listeners%27%20Experence%2C%20Age%2C%20and%20Cultire%20on%20Headphone%20Sound%20Quality%20Preferences%20.key.pdf


----------



## Taowolf51

jazz said:


> So why wasn't Sennheiser aware of that? I honestly can't say. But the issue is obvious from the perspective of logic, wouldn't you say so? Now I'm one who is particularly sensitive to near-field reflections which I have begun to fight during my speaker-builder area, and I know how harmful they are for accuracy and imaging. On the other hand I don't advocate a dry sound characteristic which can result from such measures, but I favor a liquid-smooth sound from pure resolution instead of signal-smearing.


 
  
 They likely were, but they have different requirements than a simple hobbyist. Excluding the replaceable headband and earpads, what is the HD800 made of? Stainless steel and leona plastic, both materials that should last decades with normal use. However, durable materials are also hard, thus the reflections. They likely were unable to use something to damp those reflections like foam/velvet/felt because they would deteriorate within a few years. Modders can do it because it's their headphones and they'll simply replace the mod every couple years. Sennheiser's engineers couldn't because it would mean the headphone's sound quality would deteriorate after a few years, a pretty awful possibility for a $1500 headphone.
  


upstateguy said:


> On expensive headphones, I draw the line at earpads and headbands.  No opening up the headphones, taking out Loctited screw, messing with the drivers or changing the factory wiring.


 
  
 JaZZ's mods are less invasive than replacing earpads or a headband pad.
  
 Straight wiring the cable? Sure, that's certainly invasive, though I doubt someone would sell them like that without mentioning it, it would be pretty obvious  just from the pictures, and the seller would probably call it a feature.
  
 Here's a link that details the types of mods that JaZZ is talking about, complete with measurements. There are more measurements available, but they're from a certain place we're not allowed to talk about.
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod#RlPdYtS70E4Sua0Q.97


----------



## Maxx134

upstateguy said:


> ...
> 
> Have you done anything besides hard wiring?  Could you post a picture?  I'd like to see what it looks like.



Sure:


There is a thread on how this is done on another site,
but suffice to say this connector with tiny pins and its associated tiny wire is what was removed and straight wired onto those contacts..

I feel the HD800 drivers are so sensitive, they should be viewed also as type of detection device,
 as it is able to clearly make out change of the wire & connection removal.

Another point is that not every wire gives bass increase.

The hardwired Endorphen cable had its own characteristics and not larger bass than mine with Draug2,
but that makes sense as it is a different wire..


----------



## JaZZ

maxx134 said:


> ...but that makes sense as it is a different wire..


 
  
 Beware!


----------



## ubs28

chuck8403 said:


> I like to read all of the opinions and take in the differences. My HD800s sound fine to me with no EQ through either my Schiit Valhalla 2 or Asgard 2. I have read something recently that spoke to why what I hear and what someone else hears could be so different. I like the HD800s for the clear sound. I just seems crisp.
> 
> Anyway, below may be some good reads for everyone to consider.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Same here. The greatest strength of the HD800 is the clear and detailed treble. Even very high-end speakers don't come close in this area. So I'm keeping the HD800 the way it is. The only time I EQ the HD800 is when I listen to some EDM and I want a subwoofer bass like my Shure SE846 does.
  
 Besides, my AKG K240 sounds alot brighter than the HD800 (producers use the AKG K240 for mixing, so the HD800 treble can't be bad).


----------



## mikoss

upstateguy said:


> What mods were done to the headphones you bought?


 
 See @Taowolf51 's post, link and CSD measurements I mentioned.


----------



## upstateguy

maxx134 said:


> upstateguy said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


 
  
 I'm always curious about this effect when ever I read about it. 
  
 What characteristics of a wire can account for this discrepancy?  Resistance?  Capacitance? Inductance? What's different that can cause an audible increase in bass?
  
 Is there a change in impedance? I know that as you increase the output impedance of a headphone amp you also increase the bass.
  


mikoss said:


> upstateguy said:
> 
> 
> > What mods were done to the headphones you bought?
> ...


 
  
 Link is to his profile page ?


----------



## mikoss

taowolf51 said:


> Here's a link that details the types of mods that JaZZ is talking about, complete with measurements. There are more measurements available, but they're from a certain place we're not allowed to talk about.
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod#RlPdYtS70E4Sua0Q.97


 
 ^-- that one


----------



## Maxx134

jazz said:


> maxx134 said:
> 
> 
> > ...but that makes sense as it is a different wire..
> ...



lol yeah I wanna try the "*Black Widow V2*",
and other all silver cables next year


----------



## Maxx134

upstateguy said:


> ..
> I'm always curious about this effect when ever I read about it.
> 
> What characteristics of a wire can account for this discrepancy? Resistance? Capacitance? Inductance? What's different that can cause an audible increase in bass?




I too am curious as I only know of the results..

I am believing it has to do with the design in winding and materials..

Its true from a simplistic standpoint it doesnt make sense, wire should be wire.
But that is like saying there is nothing more complex than simple "Ohms Law"..

 The reality is that there is much going on with todays designers trying to control how the wire conducts..

You can see the trend of using specific Litz winding and OCC and more cores...

Edit:
But for the HD800,
I believe removal of stock micro plug increases the traits of the wire used, because the HD800 drivers are so good to dectect it.


----------



## Maxx134

Looking over some old posts....



lol!


----------



## AlanU

mikoss said:


> I just think it's hilarious someone is offended that people found the treble to be a touch hot, modified the headphones without causing any damage or anything that isn't irreversible, tested the modifications, and quantified how the modified headphones helped to objectively make them sound more linear (less emphasis on the hot treble)...
> 
> Fwiw I tested the modded HD-800's and bought them that way. I much preferred them to the stock, which I also tested and could have purchased. I really doubt anyone is selling these without mentioning they have the mod installed. If second hand buyers of the 800's are worried, they can check for themselves.


 
  
 I just raided my wife's scrapbook tools and craft supplies.  I deviated from the  Anaxilus Mod "my way".  I used the pdf template but I used ZOT adhesive dots and used razor sharp scissors to cut out the felt.
  
 A little sparkle has been removed from the sound signature. However it's possibly added more chillout time for my listening sessions. So far I'm enjoying the mod.
  
 This mod still does not substitute having a killer source. So far using my Space tech lab tube dac setup (from my 2 channel) with unmodified HD800/Burson Virtuoso combo has been the most engaging.  My typical desktop setup is my Burson virtuoso/internal dac with Grant fidelity tube processor with "now modded" HD800 is actually surprising me at the moment.
  
 Removing the mod would take a couple of minutes if I wanted more sparkle.


----------



## upstateguy

maxx134 said:


> upstateguy said:
> 
> 
> > ..
> ...


 
  
 Please explain removal of stock micro plug....


----------



## wink

Quote:upstateguy 





> Btw, using the word "problem" is a problem.  It infers that the 800s are somehow defective.


 
 As regards to being perfect in sound signature and the vagaries of human sound perception,  YES - every headphone ever produced is defective.
  
 Whether it is the absolute performance characteristics of the headphone, or the listener's taste in audio, they will sound flawed in at least some aspect.


----------



## rawrster

So I'm set to receive these on Friday. I just have to find a balanced cable for these now so I have to find a place that has minimal turnaround time since most cable companies here have a month or longer time before they are completed and shipped. That Charleston cable company seems pretty interesting. It also seems a lot of cable company are providing these shorter cables with a separate adapter so you can use multiple headphone on. That seems like a pretty cool idea and better than spending money on one cable and selling it if you sell the headphone.
  
  
 With the recent talk about modding I did try the mod that was on the innerfidelity website the first time I had the HD800. Unfortunately, I did not like them much since I felt it took away too much of the strengths of the HD800 that I liked so removed it. I also had different setup back then with my dac as the Anedio D1 and Buffalo III and my amp as the Schiit Mjolnir. My dac probably didn't improve but my amp did so I'm hoping it is even better this time around.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

@Rawster I have the HE1000s in the house until Wednesday, really great headphones, bet I have ever heard. Though with a caveat, I haven't heard a the HD800 in my system. So Todd (TTVJ) will be sending me his pair to try.

I am looking forward to reading your impressions on the HD800 in your system!


----------



## AlanU

rawrster said:


> With the recent talk about modding I did try the mod that was on the innerfidelity website the first time I had the HD800. Unfortunately, I did not like them much since I felt it took away too much of the strengths of the HD800 that I liked so removed it. I also had different setup back then with my dac as the Anedio D1 and Buffalo III and my amp as the Schiit Mjolnir. My dac probably didn't improve but my amp did so I'm hoping it is even better this time around.


 
  
 I'm also interested in your findings especially with a solid state setup. 
  
 The modification so far has been a fun experimental one. I do find the treble to be a lot smoother with less shrill on some of my music that I listen too. Clarity is definitely not lost but the smoother high's do give me the impression the "loss"  of some HD800 character. The "felt" modification does seem to give a broader consistency of taming the treble across the board as you change from music genre. This is what I'm discovering at the moment with a solid state setup going from electronica to Chris Botti/trumpet. This is where I can withhold pulling out the modifications for now.  This of course is with my current gear. The cheap modification almost presents a less aggressive bold presentation I find in the stock HD800 has in stock form when used with solid state amp/dac setup . 
  
 With my tube setup the unmodified HD800 is truly superior (to my ears)  to my Virtuoso/internal dac/grant fidelity tube processor  setup. The tubes have this certain "listener's engagement" that I cannot replicate with solid state at the same time maintaining a comfortable non shrilling treble on certain music tracks I listen too. Also more organic long tail "note decay" with string instruments with tubes.  
  
 The HD800 modification is fun in changing the character of a "stock" HD800. As per usual mileage may vary from person to person and definitely dependent on the dac/amp used in pairing with the HD800. When I eventually permanently change my headphone setup with another Tube dac I'll definitely remove the modifications to my headphones. However in this case it'll be substantially cheaper to buy different flagship headphones than to buy another dac.  Seems like there's always decisions to make to please the ears.


----------



## rawrster

wildcatsare1 said:


> @Rawster I have the HE1000s in the house until Wednesday, really great headphones, bet I have ever heard. Though with a caveat, I haven't heard a the HD800 in my system. So Todd (TTVJ) will be sending me his pair to try.
> 
> I am looking forward to reading your impressions on the HD800 in your system!


 
  
 It won't be anytime soon for sure. I found a decent deal on the HD800 so ended up purchasing it. It was an impulse buy so still looking at a balanced cable but I'll probably have something commissioned within next 24 hours. I'm still getting used to my HE-6 again. Lately I've been using it to watch anime or youtube..I've been getting distracted and next thing I knew no time left for audio.
  
 I was planning a move in the next month or two so that takes priority over anything else right now.


----------



## JamieMcC

Been trying out a new diy amp with my HD800's the Nelson Pass ACA one of his jfet single ended class A  mono block designs with 6W output!  I built it to try with some full range speaker drivers and my HE-6 but its also been doing a great job with the HD800's as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Have a couple of mods in mind to make it a bit more headphone user friendly.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^Jamie, that is a beautiful Amp, did you do the woodwork or did the kit include the casing?


----------



## paulchiu

The wood is for hand warming?  Keep the Croissant crispy? 
  
 Quote:


jamiemcc said:


> Been trying out a new diy amp with my HD800's the Nelson Pass ACA one of his jfet single ended class A  mono block designs with 6W output!  I built it to try with some full range speaker drivers and my HE-6 but its also been doing a great job with the HD800's as well
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HiFiChris

JamieMcC said:
			
		

>




Looks good, man. Any photos of the rear or the inside?


----------



## JamieMcC

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^Jamie, that is a beautiful Amp, did you do the woodwork or did the kit include the casing?


 
  
 Thanks I only purchased the pcb boards from diyaudio and the enclosure is a diy affaire and was surprisingly easy to do essentially the heatsinks make up the baulk of it and the wood fixes to them.
  
 The kit version they offer is two separate mono blocks.  I found some heat sinks on ebay and put the two separate mono block pcb sections in a single enclosure.
  
http://www.diyaudio.com/store/amplifier-kits/amp-camp-kit-23/aca-bundle-210.html
  
  

  
 Its a very simple build link to the kits build guide
  
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/247361-aca-illustrated-build-guide.html
  


hifichris said:


> Looks good, man. Any photos of the rear or the inside?


 
  
  

  

  
 The only thing to really be aware of is that as a power amp you need to find a way to control the volume either by using a pre amp or a passive attenuator. I have been using the software on my media player to do so temporarily and plan to fit a passive attenuator later.
  
 So a word of WARNING please be aware this is a speaker amp and not plug and play for headphone use you could damage your headphones if you forget to have the volume set to the correct levels before plugging in your headphones if no volume control is fitted directly to the amp.
  
 dac---->ACA---->headphones via speaker tap adapter. Fitting a panel mounted headout socket would also be option.
  
 Edit don't be put off by its simplicity and parts count.  Just remember its a  Nelson Pass mono block fully running in class A  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sonically its actually pretty damn good and a bit of a eye opener when you consider the parts cost.


----------



## ubikutz

Hi,
  
 Anyone had success in using the HD800 with a Sony PS4 for console / gaming with virtual surround sound?
 What kind of setup do you use for that?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## pervysage

ubikutz said:


> Hi,
> 
> Anyone had success in using the HD800 with a Sony PS4 for console / gaming with virtual surround sound?
> What kind of setup do you use for that?
> ...


 
  
 If I can snag this pair of HD800's from Craigslist I will just run it like I run my TH900's. Game Console -> Astro Mixamp (which will provide the virtual surround sound) -> Amp of your choice -> HD800. 
  
 The Astro Mixamp part you can change to whichever surround sound device you want to use (X7, Turtle Beach DSS, Creative Recon 3D, etc.)


----------



## rawrster

jamiemcc said:


> Been trying out a new diy amp with my HD800's the Nelson Pass ACA one of his jfet single ended class A  mono block designs with 6W output!  I built it to try with some full range speaker drivers and my HE-6 but its also been doing a great job with the HD800's as well
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That amp looks great. I'm a huge fan of the nelson pass amps from the couple times I've heard them. The F1J is probably the best I've heard the HE-6. It sounds pretty good with the HD800 too. I wish I had the space for something like that and I have a tendency to go through gear quickly if I find a better deal and definitely wouldn't want to deal with shipping on a amp of that size.
  
  
 On another note, I should be all set to go with my HD800. It arrives on Friday and I had a cable commissioned by Charleston cable company (I've never bought from them before and customer service seems to be very good). I just have to deal with that long stock cable for a week or so. With the HD800 and HE-6 in my rig again I wish I never went with Stax since I'm back to where I started a few years ago when I had the same headphones...


----------



## FlySweep

rawrster said:


> .. I had a cable commissioned by Charleston cable company (I've never bought from them before and customer service seems to be very good). I just have to deal with that long stock cable for a week or so.


 
  
 Chris' cables are terrific.. and he's a excellent guy to deal with.  I've had C3 cables (and interconnects) in the past and was very happy with the quality (and performance.. if you're into that side of things w/ cables).


----------



## ubikutz

pervysage said:


> If I can snag this pair of HD800's from Craigslist I will just run it like I run my TH900's. Game Console -> Astro Mixamp (which will provide the virtual surround sound) -> Amp of your choice -> HD800.
> 
> The Astro Mixamp part you can change to whichever surround sound device you want to use (X7, Turtle Beach DSS, Creative Recon 3D, etc.)


 

 What port do you use to connect from the Mixamp to the amp?
 Is the "stream out" port the one to use? Does it function like a "line out"?
  
 Do you have two volume controls active at the same time? The astro volume and the amp volume?
 If so, where do you set your astro volume for best quality?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Yviena

I don't really understand why many people are complaining about the bass and treble on this headphone.

I find that it ruthlessly reveals your upstream gear for what it really sounds like.

Tho it doesn't help that most music nowadays is mastered for the radio,car, beats etc anything with a smiley curve eq


----------



## rawrster

flysweep said:


> Chris' cables are terrific.. and he's a excellent guy to deal with.  I've had C3 cables (and interconnects) in the past and was very happy with the quality (and performance.. if you're into that side of things w/ cables).


 
  
 He seems to go under the radar (similar to Ted from headphone lounge) so easier to provide good customer service and quicker turnaround time assuming it is a one person operation.
  
 Hopefully this is my last expensive purchase for a while..I need to stop looking at the FS forums. Almost my entire setup is from impulse purchases...


----------



## Oregonian

rawrster said:


> He seems to go under the radar (similar to Ted from headphone lounge) so easier to provide good customer service and quicker turnaround time assuming it is a one person operation.
> 
> Hopefully this is my last expensive purchase for a while..I need to stop looking at the FS forums. Almost my entire setup is from impulse purchases...


 

 How do you like the bass compared to the HE-6 I sold you?


----------



## rawrster

oregonian said:


> How do you like the bass compared to the HE-6 I sold you?


 
  
 I won't know for some time since I ordered a balanced cable and won't arrive for 2 weeks probably. My system is better off with the HD800 so not really the best comparison since my amp isn't the best for HE-6 but I don't care. It still sounds good enough to me even after hearing better amps in the past. I did own them 2 years ago and the HE-6 bass was definitely better than the HD800. I'm not talking just volume or kick but in general. The bass quality of the HE-6 and that it is visceral (with the right amp) makes it hard to beat. I have a feeling that even with the Taurus the HE-6 bass will be hard to beat.


----------



## Sorrodje

rawrster said:


> The HE-6 bass was definitely better than the HD800. I'm not talking just volume or kick but in general. The bass quality of the HE-6 and that it is visceral (with the right amp) makes it hard to beat.


 
  
  
 mmmh. that's debatable... The HE-6 and the HD800 has been on my desk for a few weeks now and I still struggle to make my onw opinion about bass and the rest of the spectrum.  I still think both headphones brings something of their own in every area. Bass included.  
  
 when I do A/B of the two headphones : when I switch from HE-6 to HD800 I tell myself " OK the upgrade is obvious"... when I switch from HD800 to HE-6 , I tell myself " hum. ****... I feel it's an upgrade as well" ... it's like the two headphones offer two different way to present the music but that two way are both as interesting for me.  I understand better  why so much people come from the HD800 to the HE-6 and the other way !


----------



## pervysage

ubikutz said:


> What port do you use to connect from the Mixamp to the amp?
> Is the "stream out" port the one to use? Does it function like a "line out"?
> 
> Do you have two volume controls active at the same time? The astro volume and the amp volume?
> ...




I use a headphone/microphone splitter that came with my Mixamp. That splitter plugs into the headset output on the Mixamp. From there you plug your microphone (I use an Antlion Modmic) into the microphone portion of the splitter and your headphone amplifier into the headphone portion of the splitter.

For the Mixamp volume, I have it fully maxed out and control the volume using my headphone amp. Works with no problems but I have read things in the past where people set there Mixamp volume to 80% or something along those lines.

I would not use the stream out port of the Mixamp at all. It is basically meant for combining everything from your Mixamp (game audio and microphone audio) and sending it to a line in on your computer for live streaming purposes. Even for that purpose I find the stream port to have very bad quality sound for some reason.


----------



## rawrster

sorrodje said:


> mmmh. that's debatable... The HE-6 and the HD800 has been on my desk for a few weeks now and I still struggle to make my onw opinion about bass and the rest of the spectrum.  I still think both headphones brings something of their own in every area. Bass included.
> 
> when I do A/B of the two headphones : when I switch from HE-6 to HD800 I tell myself " OK the upgrade is obvious"... when I switch from HD800 to HE-6 , I tell myself " hum. ****... I feel it's an upgrade as well" ... it's like the two headphones offer two different way to present the music but that two way are both as interesting for me.  I understand better  why so much people come from the HD800 to the HE-6 and the other way !


 
  
 I'll find out soon enough. That was two years ago and my system has changed completely. I don't have them to compare yet however soon I will. I don't mind being wrong in this case if that happens though..


----------



## negura

Stax excluded, I personally think after going through a lot of headphones the HD800s, and HE-6s, both modded and on a good rig are the best the market has to offer. There are other very good headphones, but. in some cases, despite the price the overall sound quality is not as good as with the former too.
  
 I left Stax out only because I never heard the T2 DIY. Only up to BHSE and KGSSHV. I would say the SR-009/BHSE is probably the strongest competition to the good HD800s rigs, but not to the HE-6s.


----------



## preproman

Abyss


----------



## Sorrodje

preproman said:


> Abyss


 
  
 competitor of the HE-6 ?


----------



## preproman

A HE-6 replacer..


----------



## Sorrodje

preproman said:


> A HE-6 replacer..


 
  
 You don't miss the HE-6 mids ?


----------



## preproman

Yes No,  the mids on the Abyss is not bad by a long shot.


----------



## negura

sorrodje said:


> You don't miss the HE-6 mids ?


 
  
 Yeah the mids are the weaker spot on those imo. And also the FR is not as coherent as the HE-6s'.


----------



## Sorrodje

negura said:


> Yeah the mids are the weaker spot on those imo. And also the FR is not as coherent as the HE-6s'.




Maybe but abyss soundstage and imaging capabilities are better. It's not that the he-6 is bad at all but abyss is better on those points.



preproman said:


> Yes No




I see..... you'll be back soon to your he-6! LOL!


----------



## negura

sorrodje said:


> Maybe but abyss soundstage and imaging capabilities are better. It's not that the he-6 is bad at all but abyss is better on those points.
> I see..... you'll be back soon to your he-6! LOL!


 
  
  
 Yes the sound stage is better and so is the bass (but only very marginally after the blutack he-6 mod). It's a very close one, but I outweigh things very slightly in favour the modded HE-6s. Btw I like the Abyss and yes it is THEE competition for the HE-6s. Probably a contest with more similarity compared the SR009/HD800 one, since both those are planars.


----------



## preproman

The Abyss is not as fatiguing to for long periods of time.  The comfort on both sucks..


----------



## negura

preproman said:


> The Abyss is not as fatiguing to for long periods of time.


 
  
 The HE-6s is never fatiguing to me over long periods... Well probably the Abyss isn't either. But we can talk more details in the other thread. I have rolled quite a few mods recently and I think I am gathering why that could be with the 6s.
  
 Since this is the HD800s thread, it's very similar to these: controlling reflections with as little sacrifice to what they do well as possible. But it's not easy with either of.


----------



## Taowolf51

sorrodje said:


> mmmh. that's debatable... The HE-6 and the HD800 has been on my desk for a few weeks now and I still struggle to make my onw opinion about bass and the rest of the spectrum.  I still think both headphones brings something of their own in every area. Bass included.
> 
> when I do A/B of the two headphones : when I switch from HE-6 to HD800 I tell myself " OK the upgrade is obvious"... when I switch from HD800 to HE-6 , I tell myself " hum. ****... I feel it's an upgrade as well" ... it's like the two headphones offer two different way to present the music but that two way are both as interesting for me.  I understand better  why so much people come from the HD800 to the HE-6 and the other way !


 
  
 It's always why I say that once you hit a certain point, flagships are more about different flavors than they are about raw quality. No flagship does everything better than every other flagship, each has their own flavor and specialty to fit different sonic needs and preferences.


----------



## Rayzilla

taowolf51 said:


> It's always why I say that once you hit a certain point, flagships are more about different flavors than they are about raw quality. No flagship does everything better than every other flagship, each has their own flavor and specialty to fit different sonic needs and preferences.




+1. This is so true!


----------



## Sorrodje

@taowolf51 : definitely agree with that. But IMO there's not so much flagship I really consider as true summit-fi... my summit-fi at least...


----------



## Gr8Desire

I received a new pair of HD800's this week via Amazon Prime. The idea was: I would listen to them, confirm all the reported deficiencies, send them back within the 30 day return window, and happily go back to my planar HE-560s confident that the HD800s are just not very good.

_It is not working out that way._

 I read the following knocks against the HD800 countless times:

 1. No bass
 2. Too much treble
 3. Shrill
 4. Hard to drive
 5. Must use tube amps; SS is just not viable
 6. Liveless and without soul
 7. Bad cables
 8. Easily scratched
 9. Unforgiving to lesser recordings
 10. Too expensive

 After a few days of listening I am surprised - and a bit angry.

 Surprised at how much I like the HD800s. The base is spot on and accurate. The treble is revealing and accurate too. The DH800s are easily driven by my Oppo HA-1.  I don't care much for tubes - I  prefer use my own EQ instead that statically substituted by a given tube; The music is amazing; the cables work as they should (would a manufacturer purposely use bad cables at this price point?) . They are as rugged as any tier 1 phone I have tried.  Lesser recording sound like they should to me = interesting if not perfect.  And yes, the HD800's are too expensive  

 I am angry because I listened to detractors so long. 

 Anyways,  I am now an HD800 owner when I never thought it possible.  

_Anyone want to buy a very nice pair of HE-560's?? _


----------



## Sorrodje

One advice : wait a bit before to sell your HE560.. the HD800 provides a wow effect than can diseappear quickly.... you have to opportunity to return it within the 30 days return window : Make you a favor and take your time. Things can be a bit less paradisiac after Two or three weeks


----------



## AlanU

sorrodje said:


> @taowolf51 : definitely agree with that. But IMO there's not so much flagship I really consider as true summit-fi... my summit-fi at least...


 
  
 I've yet to listen to the top tier of headphones. However the in the $2000+ level they all have a house sound that can be subjectively enjoyed from individual to individual. 
  
 So far I've yet to hear anything as engaging using headphones compared to a 2 channel hifi setup. There is definitely something special about 2 channel that headphones can never match.
  
 However for individual personal enjoyment without disturbing others ...... only solution is headphones.


----------



## icebear

Welcome to the club 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If the HD800 sounds crappy, usually it's either the source or the recording in the first place. They just let you hear into the recording on a level that is beyond a lot of other gear. They reveal flaws and doctored, stitched together mix and mastering, consequently such material doesn't sound pleasant. It's not the fault of the headphone though. I have the HD800 for 1.5 years now and recently got a GSX-Mk2 and I had no idea what the HD800 are really capable of. I liked them but now, I usually shake my head - most likely my mouth also opens when I listen to recordings the first time with the headamp. So the SS IS a solid option, just not any SS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and not with any source.


----------



## Gr8Desire

sorrodje said:


> One advice : wait a bit before to sell your HE560.. the HD800 provides a wow effect than can diseappear quickly.... you have to opportunity to return it within the 30 days return window : Make you a favor and take your time. Things can be a bit less paradisiac after Two or three weeks


 
 No kidding.  Been down that road before.  

 Headphones often lose their wow for me. My tryouts with the Beyer T1 & T5p, Grado GS1000e, and Oppo PM-3 each lost their lustre within 30 days.
  
 The HD800 is hanging in there. I will use the full 30 day trial period


----------



## lukeap69

gr8desire said:


> No kidding.  Been down that road before.
> 
> 
> Headphones often lose their wow for me. My tryouts with the Beyer T1 & T5p, Grado GS1000e, and Oppo PM-3 each lost their lustre within 30 days.
> ...




Can you provide comparisons of HE560 and HD800?


----------



## rawrster

So my HD800 are delivered and like a fool I'm here stuck at work..
  
 It's a good thing it came on Friday at least since I'll have all weekend


----------



## Gr8Desire

lukeap69 said:


> Can you provide comparisons of HE560 and HD800?


 

 Ha!  I am still in the initial _HD800 infatuation and appreciation phase _so there is some bias.

 FWIW: My music is mostly jazz,  prog rock and some classical. And please understand, I am a dedicated user of EQ.  I listen loud and I listen quiet. I use different component combinations.  I think  EQ is an essential element.
  
*HE-560 versus HD800 *
  
*Bass Extension:* Surprise. Roughly the same;  Slight nod to HE-560 with rock music but that comes at the cost of clarity. I add at least 10 db of EQ with both depending on listening level,
  
*Treble Extension:* No contest - the HD800 is in a different solar system.  Best I have ever heard. Better than my former fav, the Beyer DT990; 10 db of EQ needed for the HE-560' a few less for the HD800 depending on listening level.

*Clarity:* HD800 wins across the entire spectrum; I thought the HE-560 had a great midrange; not so much now.
  
*Soundstage Width:* The HD800 is better but not by much;  HD800 is roughly on par with my DT990s.  The HE-560 is a reasonable second place. My Audeze EL-8Cs are a distance third.  Clarity is a important element again .  Instruments seem to stand out because they are well isolated as opposed to far apart (which can come from simple L-R channel differences).
  
*Forward and Back Soundstage:* (trick category) Sorry I don't believe 2 driver headphones can do this with 2 channel source material .  The HD800 creates more perceived stage depth for sure but I attribute that to very large drivers and not something that was present in a recording.

*Efficiency:* HE-560 wins by a small margin. My Oppo HA-1 amp is happy with both. Neither is fully driven by my Oppo HA-2 portable amp (not a configuration I need anyways)  

 That's about all I can hear after 3 days.  I am a scientist dammit, not an audio reviewer   Maybe more later.  _27 days to go on my trial._


----------



## negura

gr8desire said:


> *Bass Extension:* Surprise. Roughly the same;  Slight nod to HE-560 with rock music but that comes at the cost of clarity. I add* at least 10 db of EQ* with both depending on listening level,


 
  
 It's interesting to note preferences and that you find the need to add that to the Hifiman. Well I guess the HD800 should be plenty good then too.
  
 But yes no surprise the HD800 can make quick work off the HE-560, as the former are in another class of technicalities and a true flagship. However I would suggest do try to listen across all the genres you'd normally listen to and all kinds of recording quality.


----------



## TokenGesture

I got a good deal on these and now rotate them with my LCDX, primarily for classical (cliche). I don't want to derail the thread but to the cable believers, any tips on cable upgrades?


----------



## preproman

gr8desire said:


> *Soundstage Width:* The HD800 is better but not by much;*  HD800 is roughly on par with my DT990s.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 This one is interesting to me.  And here I'm thinking the HD800s has an exaggerated soundstage width.  Do you have any mods on your HD800s?


----------



## ubikutz

pervysage said:


> I use a headphone/microphone splitter that came with my Mixamp. That splitter plugs into the headset output on the Mixamp. From there you plug your microphone (I use an Antlion Modmic) into the microphone portion of the splitter and your headphone amplifier into the headphone portion of the splitter.
> 
> For the Mixamp volume, I have it fully maxed out and control the volume using my headphone amp. Works with no problems but I have read things in the past where people set there Mixamp volume to 80% or something along those lines.
> 
> I would not use the stream out port of the Mixamp at all. It is basically meant for combining everything from your Mixamp (game audio and microphone audio) and sending it to a line in on your computer for live streaming purposes. Even for that purpose I find the stream port to have very bad quality sound for some reason.


 

 thanks for the info!
 my mixamp is about to arrive; will see how the mixamp, ifi micro dsd and hd800 like to sing together in CoD


----------



## Gr8Desire

negura said:


> It's interesting to note preferences and that you find the need to add that to the Hifiman. Well I guess the HD800 should be plenty good then too.
> 
> But yes no surprise the HD800 can make quick work off the HE-560, as the former are in another class of technicalities and a true flagship. However I would suggest do try to listen across all the genres you'd normally listen to and all kinds of recording quality.


 
  
 I will attenuate that comment by saying _10 dB on my iTunes mixer_.  I have no idea what that translates to in reality.

 I routinely listen at low volume so 10 dbB EQ is essential. I am a whacko believer in the shoddy and unscientific work of Fletcher and Munson 80 years ago.  People who insist on flat playback will get 'better' results but I can live with that.


----------



## rwalkerphl

I just received my HD800's today, and am currently on HE560's. All I've heard on the HD800's hasn't rung true so far:
  

BASS: I threw on Martin Garrix Animals for fun, and the bass extension was perfect!
TREBLE: It's sounding just right to me - what I did notice is that I am hearing things I didn't before - timbre on the edges of the synths, squeaks from the bows of violins and cellos, etc - the realism is just great!
SOUNDSTAGE - I also didn't notice the soundstage to be overly wide, more that everything sounded right where it is.
  
 I'm having un right now as I have them hooked up to a Little Dot MK IV SE, and I have been tube rolling since I received them - I've settled on Hytron 6AK5's from the 1940's right now, and I have a big smile on my face 
  
 Ultimately for me though. I purchased the HD800's for mixing, and the fact I could hear such detail and space in the sound tells me they will be perfect for the job!


----------



## Gr8Desire

preproman said:


> This one is interesting to me.  And here I'm thinking the HD800s has an exaggerated soundstage width.  Do you have any mods on your HD800s?


 

 I guess it is a preference.

 I believe soundstage _width_ is the integration of two elements found in normal two channel (stereo) mixes:  

 1. Discrete differences in  L-R channel content.
 2. Time delayed content in either channel - typically sounds that were produced further from a mic than others in the same mix at the same time base.

 With inward facing HP drivers, these two types of content overlap (some enhancing and others cancelling out) but results are generally perceived as a wider sound stage when the mix is correct.

 In any case, the result is not 100% accurate.  Some people will like it - others will recognize that something is spatially wrong.  With headphones, I can live with (I prefer really) a wide soundstage so long as other elements are correct.


----------



## ziggysp2000

Soundstage / imaging varies so wildly from recording to recording. Granted yes with HD800, the space is larger than most, I found it mostly recording dependent (especially with things like classical). I think over time you get used to it, too.
  
 You really develop a preference for certain record labels because of subtleties like that.


----------



## ziggysp2000

Actually, having thought about it some more, I reflected back to various experiences. The one pet peeve I have is when sound is seemingly coming from slightly behind you, often very much hard left or hard right. I find physically moving moving headphones forward, so your ears are further towards back of the ear cups helps a lot. I should stress this occurs on a very limited number of tracks, especially those right around when stereo came in (mid 60's). 
  
 Also, at times I feel like my ears / mind play games with me, in the sense that for instance, a given instrument is coming from a slightly different place than it did the day before. Same track, same gear. Ear position in the earcups likely a factor!
  
 Point is, it's a moving target some of the time, just sort of learn to deal with it. Kind of like tuning on a guitar, you just sort of have to roll with the punches, it's almost never perfect.


----------



## AlanU

I feel the HD800 to have border line unrealistic soundstage regardless of what I listen too. However for the comfort of wearing the headphones and listening pleasure I will compromise and appreciate the "signature" sound of the HD800.
  
 After doing the "felt material" headphone modification the Hd800 seems to transform into a smoother sounding headphone. It's rolled off the highs a tad but overall across the board it's worked well for my jazz music genre. Due to the nature of mellowing out the high's I think this can also effect some of the wide spaciousness sound so the soundstage ever so slightly became a tad more intimate.
  
 So far i do not have the urge to removing the "mod" to my relatively new HD800.  I'd listen to my 2 channel anyday compared to listening to headphones. The headphone  ambiance is almost impossible to match a 2 channel.
  
 Comfort is the key for my headphone usage. The word "musical" can be used in very loose terms. I actually enjoyed auditioning AKG 812's for a different presentation of sound vs my unmodified HD800. The AKG I found to be much more intimate with a more realistic sound stage vs my HD800.  Every headphone is coloured....pick your poison


----------



## Wildcatsare1

tokengesture said:


> I got a good deal on these and now rotate them with my LCDX, primarily for classical (cliche). I don't want to derail the thread but to the cable believers, any tips on cable upgrades?




Try the Norne Draug 2, it won't break the bank and it is a fantastic cable with the HD800s.


----------



## whirlwind

wildcatsare1 said:


> tokengesture said:
> 
> 
> > I got a good deal on these and now rotate them with my LCDX, primarily for classical (cliche). I don't want to derail the thread but to the cable believers, any tips on cable upgrades?
> ...


 
 Yep....+1


----------



## Gr8Desire

ziggysp2000 said:


> Actually, having thought about it some more, I reflected back to various experiences. The one pet peeve I have is when sound is seemingly coming from slightly behind you, often very much hard left or hard right. I find physically moving moving headphones forward, so your ears are further towards back of the ear cups helps a lot. I should stress this occurs on a very limited number of tracks, especially those right around when stereo came in (mid 60's).
> 
> Also, at times I feel like my ears / mind play games with me, in the sense that for instance, a given instrument is coming from a slightly different place than it did the day before. Same track, same gear. Ear position in the earcups likely a factor!
> 
> Point is, it's a moving target some of the time, just sort of learn to deal with it. Kind of like tuning on a guitar, you just sort of have to roll with the punches, it's almost never perfect.


 
  
 Think of it this way (very simplified without mixing and ignoring room acoustics):  one stereo microphone: centre of row 5.  Violin: front, stage left. Trumpet: back, centre stage; Drum: middle stage right.

 In this stereo recording, the violin sounds arrive first at the microphone in the left channel,  drums second in the right channel and trumpet last in both channels together.

 With floor speakers, facing forward, spaced apart like on the recording stage: everything works properly. The left channel moves first creating a forward (near) sound on the left stage; the right moves next, creating a mid sound on the right stage, then the middle moves (both speakers together) creating a sound that is perceived as deep centre stage.  Everything is spatially correct.

 Headphones change the direction of sounds because the drivers are facing in. The left driver moves first, creating sound near but perpendicular to the left ear! Then the right, a little further away but perpendicular to the right ear. Then the middle moves (both drivers together) creating a sound that is perceived as far and perpendicular to both ears. Spatially, instruments are not where they should be.

 I would say that's what you are hearing when there is a 'wide soundstage'.
  
 Not a big deal. Most recordings lose distance information because multiple microphones are placed near their respective source instruments and mixed down to stereo without any timebase corrections. Or the final mix down was done primarily with headphones and the engineer changed timebases to remove evil _wide sound stage_ effects


----------



## icebear

tokengesture said:


> I got a good deal on these and now rotate them with my LCDX, primarily for classical (cliche). I don't want to derail the thread but to the cable believers, any tips on cable upgrades?


 

 Norne Vanquish.
 Mechanically, workman ship, sound and value for money all top notch. Seriously good value.


----------



## Jackson99

gr8desire said:


> I received a new pair of HD800's this week via Amazon Prime. The idea was: I would listen to them, confirm all the reported deficiencies, send them back within the 30 day return window, and happily go back to my planar HE-560s confident that the HD800s are just not very good.
> 
> _It is not working out that way._
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had a very similar experience and came to essentially the same conclusions after hearing the HD800 for myself.  (and I'm an HA-1 user too--although I've been amping them mostly with my Valhalla 2 so far).  I personally don't have any problems with the treble in well-recorded material.  Sure, if it's a bad recording, you'll know--but I don't see that as a fault of the headphone.  And the bass was a big surprise for me--I was fully expecting them to sound thin an anemic, based on some of the impressions I read... but I actually feel the bass is quite good.  It may not be emphasized or boosted, but I find it present and detailed, and the extension is impressive.
 I guess I'm still in the honeymoon phase with my HD800s too, but they are getting a LOT of head time, and right now they're looking like keepers for me.


----------



## Rayzilla

jackson99 said:


> I had a very similar experience and came to essentially the same conclusions after hearing the HD800 for myself.  (and I'm an HA-1 user too--although I've been amping them mostly with my Valhalla 2 so far).  I personally don't have any problems with the treble in well-recorded material.  Sure, if it's a bad recording, you'll know--but I don't see that as a fault of the headphone.  And the bass was a big surprise for me--I was fully expecting them to sound thin an anemic, based on some of the impressions I read... but I actually feel the bass is quite good.  It may not be emphasized or boosted, but I find it present and detailed, and the extension is impressive.
> I guess I'm still in the honeymoon phase with my HD800s too, but they are getting a LOT of head time, and right now they're looking like keepers for me.


 
Same experience here. And I am still in the honeymoon stage, over a year later. lol


----------



## johnjen

alanu said:


> I feel the HD800 to have border line unrealistic soundstage regardless of what I listen too. However for the comfort of wearing the headphones and listening pleasure I will compromise and appreciate the "signature" sound of the HD800.
> 
> After doing the "felt material" headphone modification the Hd800 seems to transform into a smoother sounding headphone. It's rolled off the highs a tad but overall across the board it's worked well for my jazz music genre. Due to the nature of mellowing out the high's I think this can also effect some of the wide spaciousness sound so the soundstage ever so slightly became a tad more intimate.
> 
> ...




If you're up for an experiment try the Anax mod v.2 using shelf liner instead of the full felt treatment.

It's still not 'perfect' but is an improvement...

JJ


----------



## AlanU

johnjen said:


> If you're up for an experiment try the Anax mod v.2 using shelf liner instead of the full felt treatment.
> 
> It's still not 'perfect' but is an improvement...
> 
> JJ


 
 hmm is there any link of mod v.2 ?  I have never heard of v.2 ....
  
 The felt was a "change" in sound signature. Is there a particular brand of shelf liner? 
  
 I do appreciate you chiming in....


----------



## defbear

Gr8Desire, if you are angry with your 800's, get a Pono Player and become absolutely furious.


----------



## defbear

Quote "The felt was a "change" in sound signature. Is there a particular brand of shelf liner? "

I love it! Which shelf liner sounds best? Since actress Julia Roberts has beautiful hair, the reporters asked her what shampoo she uses. She replied "Oh just Hotel Shampoo". Of course the next question was "What Hotel?"

Add three more quotes and make it a gallon - Groucho


----------



## JaZZ

Better than foam and shelf liner: black velvet. Just a bit more tricky to work with and less «professional» looking. For those who care for the sound in the first place.


----------



## Gr8Desire

defbear said:


> Gr8Desire, if you are angry with your 800's, get a Pono Player and become absolutely furious.


 







 I have auditioned the Pono and learned a great deal from the experience. It is a capable device but I don't think it outperforms my iMac + BitPerfect + HA-1 DAC or iPhone + VLC + HA-2 DAC with 176.4/24 content.  
  
 As I experimented more with high sample rates and bit depths, I learned something else that was surprising:  Some 176.4/24 content  sounded no better @ 44/16. And a few 176.4/24 recordings sounded terrific @ 44/16!!!  _What gives?_ 
  
 My simple-minded conclusion: Some hi-res content is *re-mastered *very well. It sounds better at all rates down to 44/16. Other hi-res content, that was not re-mastered - or not remastered very well - sounds no better at 176.4/24 than it does at 44/16.  The Pono made this comparison easy with its downsampling playback option.

 Either way: As nice as the Pono is (single device + DAC), it is a no sale for me. The Pono does not have EQ. I insist on EQ to listen to music.  FWIW: Without EQ, I would not be keeping my HD800 headphones either.


----------



## BobFiggins

wildcatsare1 said:


> Try the Norne Draug 2, it won't break the bank and it is a fantastic cable with the HD800s.


 
  
 Getting the Norne Zoetic next week. Can't wait!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

bobfiggins said:


> Getting the Norne Zoetic next week. Can't wait!




I really like the Zoetic as well, sounds and looks fantastic.


----------



## BobFiggins

wildcatsare1 said:


> I really like the Zoetic as well, sounds and looks fantastic.


 
  
 I was looking at new cables not only for a possible sound difference, though to also be a bit shorter. Soon as I saw there was a dark brown option I was sold.


----------



## TokenGesture

Lots of love for the Norne here, thanks guys! What does it do for the HD800?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Haven't heard the Zoetic yet on the HD800s, but it sounded fantastic on the Ethers. 

The Draug 2 increases and improves the quality of the bass, sweetness, but doesn't roll off the high end. Leaves the soundstage intact, but improves imaging.


----------



## rawrster

I got my HD800 yesterday but unfortunately I have to sell it. It was bad timing for me I guess as some other expense takes priority. I'll have a pretty useless cable in a few weeks lol.
  
 It sounded good while I had it but I'm looking to purchase one again in the next few months hopefully.


----------



## Harty

I've finally found a solution to fitting the new HD 800 replacement Ear Pads.
  
 A lot of people can't get the HD800 Ear Pads to lock onto the HD800 frame, this is because the white plastic membrane is too tight around the new replacement HD800 Ear Pads D frame.
  
 Only do this below if you can’t get the new HD800 replacement Ear Pads to fit onto the HD800.
  
 Simply put two fingers in between the black plastic ear pad D ring and the white plastic membrane of the new HD800 replacement earpads, obviously finger print side pointing up and touching the underside of the white plastic membrane, then place your two thumbs, one each on top of the white plastic membrane pressing down on top of the white plastic membrane and your two fingers underneath, pull and stretch apart the white plastic membrane between each finger and thumb following the D shape all around the black plastic ear pad ring, do this several times around the D pad to loosen up the white plastic membrane, don't be too gentle, the plastic has a lot of stretch in it, only stretch around the ear pad D shape and not towards the center hole of the D frame.
  
 Then simply press the ear pads down onto the HD800 chamber black frame to click and lock down into place.
  
 Best wishes,
 Paul.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

rawrster said:


> I got my HD800 yesterday but unfortunately I have to sell it. It was bad timing for me I guess as some other expense takes priority. I'll have a pretty useless cable in a few weeks lol.
> 
> It sounded good while I had it but I'm looking to purchase one again in the next few months hopefully.




Rawster, which cable did you order again?


----------



## rawrster

It was the mid level one from Charleston cable company. I'm not sure what I'll do with it yet but I'll figure it out when it arrives Monday.


----------



## lazure

I have ordered the audiophile UPOCC cable from Charleston Cable Company, should have it by early next week.  It's my second or third cable from CCC, and always great service from Christopher.  He's lightning quick to respond to any queries on e-mail, and I certainly had a few before shelling out that kind of $ for a cable...


----------



## rwalkerphl

I just ordered a French Silk from Q Audio. I was looking for a balanced cable, and this was not too nuts price wise.


----------



## Oregonian

New HD800 owner here - coming from a HE-6 and almost went for an Ether but got in on a Prime Days AWD deal for just under a grand for what seems to be a new HD800 - serial 38188. 
  
 Running it out of a vintage Pioneer Spec 1 & 2 rack system - wow are these great headphones.  The bass is incredible - I, like another user above, avoided the HD800 from reading the bass was lacking and it was too bright.  Well, I'm 53 and highs don't bother me a bit so if they are bright I can't tell.  They sound extraordinary and the comfort is very very good.  Coming from the HE-6 the weight was the issue as to why I sold them.  Loved the sound and the visceral bass but the HD800 is not lacking out of my system which has more than ample power as well as tone controls and an EQ. 
  
 Day two and I'm quite happy.


----------



## preproman

Congrats Frank,
  
 Yours seems to be new.  I just got my pair from Colorware at 38381.  Glad you're liking them so far.


----------



## Sorrodje

oregonian said:


> New HD800 owner here - ... - Day two and I'm quite happy.


 
  
  
 That's good news ! As prep said, glad to see you enjoy your new purchase.


----------



## whirlwind

oregonian said:


> New HD800 owner here - coming from a HE-6 and almost went for an Ether but got in on a Prime Days AWD deal for just under a grand for what seems to be a new HD800 - serial 38188.
> 
> Running it out of a vintage Pioneer Spec 1 & 2 rack system - wow are these great headphones.  The bass is incredible - I, like another user above, avoided the HD800 from reading the bass was lacking and it was too bright.  Well, I'm 53 and highs don't bother me a bit so if they are bright I can't tell.  They sound extraordinary and the comfort is very very good.  Coming from the HE-6 the weight was the issue as to why I sold them.  Loved the sound and the visceral bass but the HD800 is not lacking out of my system which has more than ample power as well as tone controls and an EQ.
> 
> Day two and I'm quite happy.


 
 I also just love the bass coming from the HD800


----------



## joshk4

I've learnt alot about audio hifi... always trust your own ears like you trust your own eyes.. 

Everyone has their own preferences when it comes to great sound, just the same as everyone having preferences to what is easy on the eyes..


----------



## pete321

Can you bend the metal on these like the HD650/600 if the clamp is too tight? (I know that's a rare complaint with the HD800, but just in case).
  
 thanks.


----------



## ziggysp2000

pete321 said:


> Can you bend the metal on these like the HD650/600 if the clamp is too tight? (I know that's a rare complaint with the HD800, but just in case).
> 
> thanks.


 
 I would be scared to death to even try it.... and I have a huge head and have no issues (almost on max size, minus one click on each side). Not tight at all.


----------



## ozz007

whirlwind said:


> I also just love the bass coming from the HD800


 
  
 So is the base different, from lets say earlier serial numbers? What other changes on the SQ?
  
 I got a pair that are late 12k, just wondering how much difference on the sound will be compared to the new models?
  
 Thank you.


----------



## pete321

ziggysp2000 said:


> I would be scared to death to even try it.... and I have a huge head and have no issues (almost on max size, minus one click on each side). Not tight at all.


 

 My head's not that big but the 650 was brutal until I bent it, I haven't read a single thing online about people bending or using books with the HD800 so I was just curious, but I doubt it will be an issue, thanks for the response.


----------



## rawrster

If it helps the HD600 and HD650 was brutal for me that I had to sell it. I have no such issues with the HD800. The majority if not all who have used the HD800 have found it comfortable so that shouldn't be much of an issue.
  
 That said the headband is all plastic I believe (I could be wrong) so I wouldn't try bending it anytime soon.


----------



## pete321

Yeah, in pics it didn't look very safe to mess with, thanks.


----------



## kuekwee

how long do i need to burn in my HD800. Been using it for a week but sound very bad compare with the one i try at the outlet.


----------



## koiloco

kuekwee said:


> how long do i need to burn in my HD800. Been using it for a week but sound very bad compare with the one i try at the outlet.


 
 Is the chain (Dac, amp, source...) at home and at the store the same?


----------



## ozz007

So is the base different, from lets say earlier serial numbers? What other changes on the SQ?



I got a pair that are late 12k, just wondering how much difference on the sound will be compared to the new models?



Thank you.


----------



## kuekwee

koiloco said:


> Is the chain (Dac, amp, source...) at home and at the store the same?


 
 Exactly the same setup. I bring my own tablet and ifi to the shop.


----------



## rwalkerphl

I'm sitting A/Bing my HD800's and HE-560's with Silver dragon cable, It has just occurred to me why the HD800's are sounding better to me - I can listen to them at much lower volume, but hear more. The HE-560's sound somewhat congested in comparison, and I'm already thinking about letting them go...


----------



## ziggysp2000

rwalkerphl said:


> I'm sitting A/Bing my HD800's and HE-560's with Silver dragon cable, It has just occurred to me why the HD800's are sounding better to me - I can listen to them at much lower volume, but hear more. The HE-560's sound somewhat congested in comparison, and I'm already thinking about letting them go...


 
 Interesting...I've found that with with every planar I've tried, you have to turn them up to really make the sound compelling.
  
 ....which in my case, if you're at work, isn't always an option.


----------



## rwalkerphl

ziggysp2000 said:


> Interesting...I've found that with with every planar I've tried, you have to turn them up to really make the sound compelling.


 

 I've noticed they are harder to drive than most. I loved them when I first got them, but the HD800's are leaving them in the dust. I am finding I prefer a more treble focused signature though, and they may explain some of my preference.The HD800's are lighter too though. I didn't realize how much heavier the HE-560's were until I A/B'd them.


----------



## Gr8Desire

rwalkerphl said:


> I'm sitting A/Bing my HD800's and HE-560's with Silver dragon cable, It has just occurred to me why the HD800's are sounding better to me - I can listen to them at much lower volume, but hear more. The HE-560's sound somewhat congested in comparison, and I'm already thinking about letting them go...


 

 I was thinking the same thing except I find the HE-560 to be better at low volume and HD800 is better at higher volumes.

 When listening at low volume with the HD800 and HE-560, what EQ settings do you use?  Do you use different EQ different between each?


----------



## rwalkerphl

gr8desire said:


> I was thinking the same thing except I find the HE-560 to be better at low volume and HD800 is better at higher volumes.
> 
> When listening at low volume with the HD800 and HE-560, what EQ settings do you use?  Do you use different EQ different between each?


 

 I'm not using any EQ settings with either headphone. I'm running through a Matrix X-Sabre and Little Dot MKIV SE Tube amp. Low volume on the HE-560 just seems distant to me.


----------



## Gr8Desire

rwalkerphl said:


> I'm not using any EQ settings with either headphone. I'm running through a Matrix X-Sabre and Little Dot MKIV SE Tube amp. Low volume on the HE-560 just seems distant to me.


 

 OK.

 I guess I am the outlier here. I use more loudness EQ as I turn the down volume. That's probably why I get different results.
  
 I find any headphone will lack bass and treble when I reduce the volume. Thanks.


----------



## rwalkerphl

gr8desire said:


> OK.
> 
> I guess I am the outlier here. I use more loudness EQ as I turn the down volume. That's probably why I get different results.
> 
> I find any headphone will lack bass and treble when I reduce the volume. Thanks.


 

 I'm not so sure there. As volume is reduced, different frequencies will be heard less than others, predominantly in the bass from what I understand. In my case, I just think I am listening at lower volumes in general with the HD800's.
  
 On a side note, I decided to go on a kick of listening to some Wind Orchestra music today (used to play trumpet in a Wind Orchestra back in England)> The HD800's are just incredible with classical music! I know that's already been said, but I had to re-iterate. I was working and all of a sudden I hit something emotional  in the music that just stopped me dead - I just love when that happens - just being taken by music


----------



## ubikutz

pervysage said:


> I use a headphone/microphone splitter that came with my Mixamp. That splitter plugs into the headset output on the Mixamp. From there you plug your microphone (I use an Antlion Modmic) into the microphone portion of the splitter and your headphone amplifier into the headphone portion of the splitter.
> 
> For the Mixamp volume, I have it fully maxed out and control the volume using my headphone amp. Works with no problems but I have read things in the past where people set there Mixamp volume to 80% or something along those lines.
> 
> I would not use the stream out port of the Mixamp at all. It is basically meant for combining everything from your Mixamp (game audio and microphone audio) and sending it to a line in on your computer for live streaming purposes. Even for that purpose I find the stream port to have very bad quality sound for some reason.


 
 I've finally got my gear together...
 Astro Mixamp PRO and IfI Micro iDSD as amp.. I've been testing them with my PS4.
  
 I've configured everything by the book, and i think the PS4 is correctly outputting DD Live 5.1 to the Mixamp, but I can't say I can tell much of a difference.
 I've been testing in CoD Advanced Warfare (I'm guessing that should have the audio part in check, no?  by pressing the Dolby Headphone button on/off to see the difference... not much there to see.
  
 Any way to fool proof test that the whole chain is working correctly with the PS4 and Mixamp and I'm getting Dolby Headphone?
 I've tried calibration bluerays with 5.1 speaker tests, but for those the PS4 immediately falls back to outputting stereo and not DD 5.1.
 I can easily check what's being output because my AV Receiver that is connected also via HDMI reports how the audio stream looks like.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Taowolf51

gr8desire said:


> I will attenuate that comment by saying _10 dB on my iTunes mixer_.  I have no idea what that translates to in reality.
> 
> I routinely listen at low volume so 10 dbB EQ is essential. I am a whacko believer in the shoddy and unscientific work of Fletcher and Munson 80 years ago.  People who insist on flat playback will get 'better' results but I can live with that.


 
  
 If you're going to EQ, I'd heavily recommend EqualizerAPO if you're running Windows. It's a much better EQ than the iTunes Mixer, and it's parametric meaning it doesn't have fixed bands. You can EQ any frequencies you wish in any way you wish. You can apply broad range equalization or small surgical fixes (like the 6K spike).
  


ziggysp2000 said:


> Interesting...I've found that with with every planar I've tried, you have to turn them up to really make the sound compelling.
> 
> ....which in my case, if you're at work, isn't always an option.


 
  
 I've had a similar experience. I noticed that my hearing was getting worse when the LCD-2's were my primary headphone. I had to turn it up to really enjoy it, and I never had that problem with dynamic or electrostatic headphones.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

ziggysp2000 said:


> Interesting...I've found that with with every planar I've tried, you have to turn them up to really make the sound compelling.
> 
> ....which in my case, if you're at work, isn't always an option.


 

 The LCD-2.2 did not need cranking -- they are very good and musical at modest volumes from a good amp.


----------



## Rumiho

Just got my HD 800's in the mail today and after only a short listen I'm quite impressed. The weight and comfort are great and the increase in clarity coming from Sony MDR-z7's is very nice.


----------



## Oregonian

I continue to be very impressed by these!  All those years reading and thinking they were bass shy................not!  They are flagships with all I want/need and like them better than the HE-6, Ether, TH900, D7000 (tho that has a special place in my arsenal for when I want a semi closed sound with incredible bass) and all the other 50+ headphones I've owned and/or auditioned. 
  
 Glad I checked AWD on Prime Day - got 15% off an already good price.


----------



## MacedonianHero

For folks in the GTA (greater Toronto area), I swung by BayBloorRadio today and noted that they had brand new HD800s for $1200 Cdn for a brand new pair. That's $925 US approximately. Why the great deal? No, the HD900s are not around the corner, but what the salesperson told me was that there was actually a price increase coming in the fall due to the weaker Canadian $ next to the US $, so they bought a boat load of HD800s. This deal is ONLY available in-store...so if you're in Hogtown and always wanted a pair of the legendary HD800s, now is as good as ever!


----------



## dill3000

preproman said:


> Congrats Frank,
> 
> Yours seems to be new.  I just got my pair from Colorware at 38381.  Glad you're liking them so far.


 
 I also got myself a new HD 800 - 39005  Just got my certificate - liking the Sennheiser customer service so far!  - I'll be researching getting these amped nicely, might do a DIY project. 
  
 I'm impressed with it, hasn't been too bright for my preference.


----------



## AlanU

dill3000 said:


> I also got myself a new HD 800 - 39005  Just got my certificate - liking the Sennheiser customer service so far!  - I'll be researching getting these amped nicely, might do a DIY project.
> 
> I'm impressed with it,* hasn't been too bright for my preference*.


 
  
 I'm quite sensitive to bright speakers.  I'll have to say unmodified HD800/Burson Virtuoso with my Tube Buffer/processor really assisted in controlling even bad recordings with shrill.  
  
 The recent modification I've done costed several dollars yet the improvements to my ears was a dramatic one. I find the change to add some more musical enjoyment as it adds some more colour to the sound. My subjective 2 bits.......
  
 I would be certain I would have a hard time removing the modification now (even though the simple mods would take 5 minutes to remove).
  
 The cheap mod has prevented me from buying a different set of headphones or amp.  I must be easy to please


----------



## JamieMcC

dill3000 said:


> I also got myself a new HD 800 - 39005  Just got my certificate - liking the Sennheiser customer service so far!  - I'll be researching getting these amped nicely, might do a DIY project.
> 
> I'm impressed with it, hasn't been too bright for my preference.


 

 Congratulations on the HD800  if you are thinking of going DIY then make sure the Bottlehead Mainline is on your list it really is a excellent match with the HD800.  There is also the eagerly awaited  DsavitskTorpedo III due for release soon via Beezar it sounds like they are still fine tuning transformers from the snippets coming through on the forum. I'm very much looking forward to seeing the finished result and being able to put a order in. Dsavitsk has a superb reputation for his amps.


----------



## dill3000

jamiemcc said:


> Congratulations on the HD800  if you are thinking of going DIY then make sure the Bottlehead Mainline is on your list it really is a excellent match with the HD800.  There is also the eagerly awaited  DsavitskTorpedo III due for release soon via Beezar it sounds like they are still fine tuning transformers from the snippets coming through on the forum. I'm very much looking forward to seeing the finished result and being able to put a order in. Dsavitsk has a superb reputation for his amps.


 
 Thanks for the advise JamieMcC
  
 I will check out the Bottlehead Mainline and keep my eye out for the DsavitskTorpedo III


----------



## dill3000

alanu said:


> I'm quite sensitive to bright speakers.  I'll have to say unmodified HD800/Burson Virtuoso with my Tube Buffer/processor really assisted in controlling even bad recordings with shrill.
> 
> The recent modification I've done costed several dollars yet the improvements to my ears was a dramatic one. I find the change to add some more musical enjoyment as it adds some more colour to the sound. My subjective 2 bits.......
> 
> ...


 
 Nice one AlanU  
  
 Speaking of Buffer amps. I’ve got a Nelson Pass designed DIY F4 amp - its a power buffer and is great when driven with a tube preamp - this could possibly be a nice match for the HD800. 
  
 I’ve heard about some mods of the HD800 but not researched properly yet.
  
 I did see the Tyll innerfidelity post about the Anaxilus Mod. Have you any up to date info on the mods?
  
 Thanks a lot


----------



## negura

dill3000 said:


> Nice one AlanU
> 
> Speaking of Buffer amps. I’ve got a Nelson Pass designed DIY F4 amp - its a power buffer and is great when driven with a tube preamp - this could possibly be a nice match for the HD800.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Take out the dust covers and work from there. You'll thank me later.


----------



## pearljam50000

Are you liking the HE1000 more than HD800?


macedonianhero said:


> For folks in the GTA (greater Toronto area), I swung by BayBloorRadio today and noted that they had brand new HD800s for $1200 Cdn for a brand new pair. That's $925 US approximately. Why the great deal? No, the HD900s are not around the corner, but what the salesperson told me was that there was actually a price increase coming in the fall due to the weaker Canadian $ next to the US $, so they bought a boat load of HD800s. This deal is ONLY available in-store...so if you're in Hogtown and always wanted a pair of the legendary HD800s, now is as good as ever!


----------



## CanadianMaestro

$1200 for a headphone isn't a "great deal" -- with that, one can put it towards a new headphone amp/preamp like a Cavalli. Better return on the dollar.
*imo.  *


----------



## mikoss

canadianmaestro said:


> $1200 for a headphone isn't a "great deal" -- with that, one can put it towards a new headphone amp/preamp like a Cavalli. Better return on the dollar.
> *imo. *



I agree... $1200 CAD isn't a great deal for the HD-800's, it's a superb deal. They are well worth the cash, unlike some other headphones that go for more (haven't tried the HE1k's myself, but I think they are also very good, just pricey).


----------



## CanadianMaestro

mikoss said:


> I agree... $1200 CAD isn't a great deal for the HD-800's, it's a superb deal. They are well worth the cash, unlike some other headphones that go for more (haven't tried the HE1k's myself, but I think they are also very good, just pricey).


 

 nahhh...but that's just me. for a dynamic driver....maybe a top planar mag for that kinda dough.
 defend your spending...it's ok. we all do it.


----------



## mikoss

canadianmaestro said:


> nahhh...but that's just me. for a dynamic driver....maybe a top planar mag for that kinda dough.
> defend your spending...it's ok. we all do it.



I'm not defending my spending... I really don't mind paying for quality. The LCD's are not worth the cash IMO. The drivers constantly fail on the 3's, and the presentation of the 800's is miles ahead of the 2 and 3's. The HE1k's may be in a different league which actually competes with the 800's, IMO.


----------



## rawrster

At that price I'd buy two if I could..I don't think there's a planar in this price range I would take over the hd800 outside of the he6 if I had the amp for the he6.


----------



## mikoss

I fell for the planar trap already. Dynamic drivers do detail retrieval and micro detailing on a level that planars cannot touch. The planars simply can't present the euphonic decay which leads to resolution IMO. I know I'm not alone in this opinion either, but I do know that the majority of my friends prefer the LCD's to the HD's. They like the boom of the bass, and the immersive experience... Fair enough. I'm sure there are also Beats that do this wonderfully. If I heard Beats that resolved like the HD's, I would also state my opinion. 

Planars are speedier, can have more excitement/oomph, but ultimately cost a hell of a lot more to even touch the 800's. 

As for money, give me a break. I bought the LCD-3's, that is buyers remorse. I paid $1350 CAD for my HD-800's and they are worth every penny.


----------



## wahsmoh

mikoss said:


> I fell for the planar trap already. Dynamic drivers do detail retrieval and micro detailing on a level that planars cannot touch. The planars simply can't present the euphonic decay which leads to resolution IMO. I know I'm not alone in this opinion either, but I do know that the majority of my friends prefer the LCD's to the HD's. They like the boom of the bass, and the immersive experience... Fair enough. I'm sure there are also Beats that do this wonderfully. If I heard Beats that resolved like the HD's, I would also state my opinion.


 
  
 Idk that's a pretty bold statement. When you mean detail do you really mean treble detail or upper frequencies? That I can agree on. Microdetail and macrodetail is something that I cannot agree that dynamics as a whole do better... seems like a bold statement leading to.. nowhere


----------



## mikoss

I can't explain here. I'll PM you 

What I can say is that it has to do with the physical properties of the dynamic drivers vs the planars.


----------



## pearljam50000

Lol



canadianmaestro said:


> nahhh...but that's just me. for a dynamic driver....maybe a top planar mag for that kinda dough.
> defend your spending...it's ok. we all do it.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

mikoss said:


> *I can't explain here.* I'll PM you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Why not here? It's relevant. Planars vs. dynamics -- both have diff operating/physical principles.


----------



## koiloco

mikoss said:


> I fell for the planar trap already. Dynamic drivers do detail retrieval and micro detailing on a level that planars cannot touch. The planars simply can't present the euphonic decay which leads to resolution IMO. I know I'm not alone in this opinion either, but I do know that the majority of my friends prefer the LCD's to the HD's. They like the boom of the bass, and the immersive experience... Fair enough. I'm sure there are also Beats that do this wonderfully. If I heard Beats that resolved like the HD's, I would also state my opinion.
> 
> Planars are speedier, can have more excitement/oomph, but ultimately cost a hell of a lot more to even touch the 800's.
> 
> As for money, give me a break. I bought the LCD-3's, that is buyers remorse. I paid $1350 CAD for my HD-800's and they are worth every penny.


 
 We are entitled to our own opinions but that's quite a statement you had there.  If you chalk it up to personal sound preference, I would say more power to you.  The moment you start saying things like euphonic decay leading to resolution, and bringing up Beats in the same sentence as HD800 and TOTL planars to get your points across, you are going to get some interesting reactions from the community.  Let's keep it to PM as you stated.  Good decision there.
  
 Just my 2c.


----------



## defbear

I have both hd800s and lcd2-fs The hd800 reveals details, such as reverb around voices, that cant be heard on the lcds. But much of the time the lcds drag me into the music in a way the hd800s might not. I really enjoy both. They seem to be apples and oranges. I know when I stop listening to one pair, I have to let my ears/brain adjust to the other. The hd800s can be like turning on the lights or walking through the gates at Disneyland. They have taught me to listen better or at least listen differently. So now my car seems to have a bigger soundstage.


----------



## koiloco

defbear said:


> I have both hd800s and lcd2-fs The hd800 reveals details, *such as reverb around voices*, that cant be heard on the lcds. But much of the time the lcds drag me into the music in a way the hd800s might not. I really enjoy both. They seem to be apples and oranges. I know when I stop listening to one pair, I have to let my ears/brain adjust to the other. The hd800s can be like turning on the lights or walking through the gates at Disneyland. They have taught me to listen better or at least listen differently. So now my car seems to have a bigger soundstage.


 
 I believe this has to do with the big soundstage and more emphasis on the high on the HD800.  I've compared my HD800 and HE-6 on vocal tracks that I am super familiar with.  The differences in the 2 sound signatures make it hard to accurately compare certain characteristics, decay and reverb included.  By the time, I throw in a speaker amp that can drive the HE-6 adequately, there're too many various factors to consider.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

I have NO problem whatsoever with expressing one's OPINIONS on this forum. It's when people start making remarks that are sweeping generalizations ("facts") that make me sometimes want to hold them to defending/justifying their remarks.  Clarity and conservative caution, not hype, are what make HeadFi a useful resource for all.
  
 cheers


----------



## koiloco

canadianmaestro said:


> I have NO problem whatsoever with expressing one's OPINIONS on this forum. It's when people start making remarks that are *sweeping generalizations* ("facts") that make me sometimes want to hold them to defending/justifying their remarks.  Clarity and conservative caution, not hype, are what make HeadFi a useful resource for all.
> 
> cheers


 
 That's exactly what I am concerned about.


----------



## MacedonianHero

pearljam50000 said:


> Are you liking the HE1000 more than HD800?




I do, yes. But it still does not diminish my enjoyment or respect for these wonderful headphones.


----------



## AlanU

dill3000 said:


> Nice one AlanU
> 
> Speaking of Buffer amps. I’ve got a Nelson Pass designed DIY F4 amp - its a power buffer and is great when driven with a tube preamp - this could possibly be a nice match for the HD800.
> 
> ...


 
 I've only performed my "hack" version of the Anaxilus mod rev.2 modification. I don't know of any "newer" modifications since I'm extremely pleased with my current setup.
  
 I was leary of touching my new HD800's but I do experiment with audio often.  I just do small tweaks to make me happy. My heart is still in the 2 channel stereo more than headphones. 
  
 Removing the dust covers really opened up the clarity department. The modification totally compliments the entire sound signature. Seems like it adds some meat to the music which somewhat surprised me in how it engaged me with my music.  Still to my ears the HP is still not even par with a hifi 2 channel but very enjoyable nonetheless.


----------



## ubikutz

Hi mates,
  
 Been trying to decide on wether to get the HD800s or not, it's a bit of a torture 
 I've had two auditions but there is only so much you can listen and compare within an hour and i'm still a bit undecided.
  
 I was wondering if you could give me some info related to how these things perform with more mainstream music which i also listen to about 50% of the time. 
 Let's say Nicki Minaj, Taylor Swift, and in general R&B, Pop, Chillout, etc. where bass impact is tied to the enjoyment of the music. I know this is sort of "junk food" but it's pretty fun 
  
 Other 50% for me is a lot around male and female vocals. Not so much classical, very little Jazz.
  
 Does it even make sense to think of the HD800 for such a use? Are these really bass light?
 How are they for low volume listening?
  
 As I'm looking for extremely open headphones (i have tinnitus and i need cans that do not block external sound at all), on my short list are only HD800, HD700, LCD-2 and HE-560. These are measured on inner fidelity to have less than 10db attenuation on high frequencies. This also coincides with my experience trying them as they do not make the tinnitus get worse.
 For example, the HD650, because it has higher passive attenuation on high frequencies (around 15db) it makes the ringing get louder.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Taowolf51

The HD800's really shouldn't be placed into the same corner as standard dynamic drivers. IMO the HD800's ring radiator driver shares as much in common (with regards to sonic technicalities) with standard dynamic drivers as a planar or stat does. The HD800's are up there with the best, despite being based on a dynamic driver, and the measurements agree.
  
 Honestly, thinking of the HD800 as just a dynamic driver headphone is nescient.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

ubikutz said:


> Hi mates,
> 
> Been trying to decide on wether to get the HD800s or not, it's a bit of a torture
> I've had two auditions but there is only so much you can listen and compare within an hour and i'm still a bit undecided.
> ...


 
  
 You should spend more time, if possible, with an HD800 that's well worn, and listen to your own test tracks. Trust your own ears. This thread is the wrong place for objective unbiased recommendations. A bit like asking Apple users whether they recommend their iDevices....or reading pro reviews.
 imho.


----------



## icebear

ubikutz said:


> Hi mates,
> 
> ... I was wondering if you could give me some info related to how these things perform with more mainstream music which i also listen to about 50% of the time.
> Let's say Nicki Minaj, Taylor Swift, and in general R&B, Pop, Chillout, etc. where bass impact is tied to the enjoyment of the music. I know this is sort of "junk food" but it's pretty fun
> ...


 
  
 Given your music preferences, I'd say stay away from the HD800.
 These are phones that reveal everything, the good the bad and the ugly.
 Usually Jazz and classic recordings have a better sound quality than than the "junk food" fun stuff.
 And the Hd800 will tell you the ingredient list of the junk food and most likely you don't wanna know


----------



## CanadianMaestro

icebear said:


> Given your music preferences, I'd say stay away from the HD800.
> These are phones that reveal everything, *the good the bad and the ugly*.


 
 I like that. Clint Eastwood of HPs.


----------



## JamieMcC

ubikutz said:


> Hi mates,
> 
> Been trying to decide on wether to get the HD800s or not, it's a bit of a torture
> I've had two auditions but there is only so much you can listen and compare within an hour and i'm still a bit undecided.
> ...


 
  
 Have you considered the Beyerdynamic  T1? They certainly are a incredible all rounder and offer perhaps the best performance to price ratio available at the moment while they don't quiet offer HD800 levels of performance they are only a whisker away. I had them for several years (I have HD800-HE-6 at the mo). Think Massdrop did a recent offer around $750ish recently.  While the T1 are open backed they are not as open as some not sure how they measure for this. I also suffer from intermittent tinnitus and never felt they contributed to setting it off or making it any worse myself, but we are all different.


----------



## ubikutz

@CanadianMaestro - thank you for the advice  i am trying to get a loaner for the weekend for further evaluation; the two short trips to the store were very inadequate in trying to appreciate such a complex can
 however seeing such a huge appreciation thread gets you wondering  for sure i know that my ears are not experienced enough to really appreciate them but i'm hoping i'll learn in time
  
  
 @icebear - this is what i'm afraid of... so today when i went to the store i did the unthinkable... instead of going to tidal lossless, i opened a few rnb/rap music video in youtube and let it rip (well at least i set it in 1080p  ^_^)
 this was running of a full balanced amp + dac setup, so all the bad and the ugly was coming from the source material
 ... i was expecting for my ears to bleed and fall off but it was not that bad... it was still musical with plenty of bass although i could feel the low quality of the compression
 the bass was very interesting in the sense that it felt enough (not too much not too little even for this genre) but also incredibly detailed - where once there was just boom, with the hd800 there were several distinct notes
 so i'm guessing it's up to what u're expecting... if you're expecting for it to be bad and ugly and it is just average, it pleasantly surprises you and ends up being enjoyable after all : )))
 for comparison i've tried the LCD2 also and that and it seemed a bit less technical but with more bass impact and a bit more forgiving.... but it did not feel comfortable at all - heavy and clamping and little ear space - the leather was pressing against my ears
  
 i will certainly try to further evaluate in the weekend
  
 what i did not like was that all that detail was a bit tiring on my ear... my ear hurt a bit after listening although i was running only at 55-60dbs SPLa
 i'm hoping that is something temporary... certainly did not get that from listening to the HD700
  
  
 @JamieMcC  - i was also consdering the T1 when i had the issue with HD650 bothering my tinnitus…
 i had no idea why until i found the graphs from innerfidelity that show ambient noise attenuation per frequency per headphone… even thou they are open, nothing is really open except no headphone and there are some frequencies that are more susceptible to attenuation that others because of how they propagate
 in my experience with tinnitus it’s very important not to block the years because that causes the brain to increase perception of the tinnitus in the lack of other signal, it’s always important to have some environment noise (that is the core principle of the tinnitus retraining therapy); closed headphones are now a big nono for me although in the past i was able to use them
 i looked on innerfidelity and found out that the HD700 (that does not bother my tinnitus) has very low attenuation that tops at 10db on the high frequencies where my tinnitus is at - http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD700.pdf
 HD650 has more attentuation, around 15db at the troublesome frequencies - http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD650.pdf so i’m guessing this has to do with it bothering the tinnitus
 T1 is a “mess” from this point of view - lots of attenuation - close to 20db - http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT1.pdf ; that would make my ears go riiiiiiiiiiiiing 
 by looking at all the innerfidelity charts the hd700, hd800, he-560 and lcd-2/3/x are the most “open” so at least i have some criteria to make the choice easier..


----------



## CanadianMaestro

@ubikutz 
 All the bass and treble analysis.....The key attributes for me, with HP auditioning -- does it make me tap my foot and sway my head? Does it disappear from my head? If it does, then it's a good match for me!


----------



## ubikutz

Hehe, you make an incredibly good point  I'm not even sure I can properly define what treble is, but everybody seems to be saying it to describe sound, accompanied by attributes such as smooth, bright, detailed, analytical, etc. so i'm doing my best to talk the talk 
 The one headphone that got me grinning so far was the HD650 - it's just so easy to like.
 I was very bummed to find it incompatible with my ears because of my tinnitus 
  
 Since them, I've been looking trough more expensive headphones (tricked at first by more expensive is better / does more genres better), and the more expensive a headphone is the bigger the pressure to "evaluate it right" because once the decision is done and cash is out the door, i need to live with it for some time.
 What's making things even more tricky is that there don't seem to be good or bad headphones, just different 
 I tell you, it's a nightmare  and the more this search lasts the less fun it is
  
 My background is with IEMs - Sennheiser IE80 (bass head) and Shure 535 (analytical). I liked them both, in different ways.
 IE80 made me grin, 535 made me freeze in awe of all the detail and technicality I was perceiving.
 What do i want in my next HP? Make me grin and make me freeze with awe in the same time  And let me watch a movies. And play a game.
 Not sure they invented that yet... or by reading what the reviews say seems it might be the HD800.
 I had only 2 hours so far with the HD800... and in those two hours I was too busy trying to "evaluate it" instead of seeing if enjoy it.
  
 Uff


----------



## johnjen

canadianmaestro said:


> You should spend more time, if possible, with an HD800 that's well worn, and listen to your own test tracks. Trust your own ears. This thread is the wrong place for objective unbiased recommendations. A bit like asking Apple users whether they recommend their iDevices....or reading pro reviews.
> imho.  h34r:




Another option would be to rent them from the 'headphone store'.

This will give you 2 weeks of at home use.
And the rental can apply to any purchase...

Listening at home, on your system, will let you know their suitability to your needs given your existing setup.

Lastly HD's reward those who are willing to 'fuss' with them.
Some folks don't want nor need to 'fuss', and for them they work just fine.
Others are not satisfied with the results of 800's in their system.

But for those who want to see just how far 800's scale, I don't know of a better HP to use.

JJ


----------



## CanadianMaestro

HeadphoneStore is closed.
 http://www.headphonestore.com/


----------



## johnjen

canadianmaestro said:


> HeadphoneStore is closed.
> http://www.headphonestore.com/




Damn, my bad...
Well that shoots that option in the foot...

JJ


----------



## CanadianMaestro

I wouldn't think any dealer would rent out and ship a $1300 HP?


----------



## whirlwind

There is one listed here in the B/S/T forum for $850


----------



## Gr8Desire

ubikutz said:


> Hi mates,
> 
> Been trying to decide on wether to get the HD800s or not, it's a bit of a torture
> I've had two auditions but there is only so much you can listen and compare within an hour and i'm still a bit undecided.
> ...


 
  
 I have owned many of the phones you are looking at.  

 I had the T1s but sent them back just before the 30 day Amazon return deadline (hard to drive and average mid-range). I currently have the HD800s with 15 days left on their 30 day Amazon return period. I've owned the HE-560s for 6 six months.  

 My thoughts about the HD800s are almost all positive. Great clarity, revealing highs and accurate lows. After 15 days of use, I love them but still find value in my existing HE-560s. The HD-560ss play electronic music very well, with classical and Jazz a very close second. The HD800 plays jazz and classical like no other but is less enamoured with rock and electronic tunes.  

 Therein lies the problem: *Which phones work best with everything I listen to? *I don't want to switch phones as I change genres. I often play my music collection in random mode so switching phones will not cut it.

 With 15 days to left to decide, I could go either way. I might keep the HD800s and get the best for some genres and less excitement for others. Or keep the HE-560s and get 99% of the performance with everything I listen to.  

The clock keeps ticking. (OK the $800 upgrade price after selling my HD-560s may also be a factor against the HD800s)


----------



## CanadianMaestro

Gr8D:   You said it -- 560s. For 99% perf with ALL you listen to. Period.


----------



## koiloco

canadianmaestro said:


> Gr8D:   You said it -- 560s. For 99% perf with ALL you listen to. Period.


 
 Go for both.


----------



## thecrow

In my to-ing and fro-ing in the decision of he560s v hd800s the one question that swayed the verdict towards the hd800 was me realising that if I bought the he560s one of the voices in my head would keep asking "I wonder what this music would sound using the hd800s." Whereas I felt my head would not have a similar voice, well at least hardly as vocal, taking the opposite stance if I went the hd800s


----------



## CanadianMaestro

do both: lottery ticket time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 "What if....."  : An audiophile's downfall and trap.


----------



## Gr8Desire

thecrow said:


> In my to-ing and fro-ing in the decision of he560s v hd800s the one question that swayed the verdict towards the hd800 was me realising that if I bought the he560s one of the voices in my head would keep asking "I wonder what this music would sound using the hd800s." Whereas I felt my head would not have a similar voice, well at least hardly as vocal, taking the opposite stance if I went the hd800s


 

 I understand the dilemma.  That's why I bought the HD800s on Amazon Prime.  I get 30 days to compare against my HE-560's.

 I do my best to induce blind testing. Not easy since these HPs feel much different. The best I can do: After listening for long periods, if I catch myself saying, "that was good" I then look at which HP I am wearing. It has happened several times with both the HD800 and HE-560.  

 I do A-B testing for a complete song and then ask myself honestly: Which was different? And then, if I could distinguish a difference, I ask: which was better? After 15 days I have no distinct winner. 

 To be fair, I have a bias _against_ the HD800. It will cost me about $800 to keep them and sell the HE-560s.  That means the HD800 will have to sound distinctly _better_ to my pragmatic ears.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

Blind testing? Be sure to just enjoy your music!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The one thing I found difficult when I heard the 800, was amp matching/synergy. It's true, what I;ve read -- the 800 (compared to other Senns and some HE's) is challenging to match to an amp that does it full justice. Unlike the HD650 (a diff league, I admit), which really does well with a lot of amps.


----------



## Sorrodje

gr8desire said:


> _Anyone want to buy a very nice pair of HE-560's?? _


 
  
  


sorrodje said:


> One advice : wait a bit before to sell your HE560.. the HD800 provides a wow effect than can diseappear quickly.... you have to opportunity to return it within the 30 days return window : Make you a favor and take your time. Things can be a bit less paradisiac after Two or three weeks


 
  
  
  
 Told you.....


----------



## rawrster

gr8desire said:


> I understand the dilemma.  That's why I bought the HD800s on Amazon Prime.  I get 30 days to compare against my HE-560's.
> 
> I do my best to induce blind testing. Not easy since these HPs feel much different. The best I can do: After listening for long periods, if I catch myself saying, "that was good" I then look at which HP I am wearing. It has happened several times with both the HD800 and HE-560.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Did you buy new? The HD800 doesn't usually come up $800 more in the used market. I was going to buy a refurb HD800 from crutchfield for $1100 with full warranty yesterday until I saw a better deal in the FS. It's still $500 or so more than the HE-560 in the used market which is still a good amount.
  
 Either way this is the case in this hobby or most hobbies I assume. Diminishing gains hits hard in this price range and there really isn't any bang for your buck. The HE-560 is a very good headphone. The only thing I did not like about them was the coaxial connector that's difficult to twist on or off. I hate those connectors with the back of tv's as well but that's another topic. Even with better gear there is a difference although it may not be as large as you may like. For someone such as myself I am willing to pay for the difference however some others may not.


----------



## Gr8Desire

canadianmaestro said:


> Blind testing? Be sure to just enjoy your music!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I know this isn't the blasphemous _sound science_ forum, but I insist on removing as many biases as I can. I will do A-B and ABX testing as much as I can to get an honest result. Nothing pedantic - just as fair as I can make it.  Fear not,_ enjoying the music_ is the end result.

 My amp is the Oppo HA-1. It is adequate and I don't plan on changing it for many years. I am not interested in tube amps. I expect the HPs to reproduce sounds accurately. Those that require _distorted source material _ to sound correct are simply removed from my list. I find it hard to believe that Sennheiser or any other top tier vendor makes products that sound bad with accurate source material. 
  
 EQ is essential since I listen to music at more than one volume level.


----------



## Gr8Desire

rawrster said:


> Did you buy new? The HD800 doesn't usually come up $800 more in the used market. I was going to buy a refurb HD800 from crutchfield for $1100 with full warranty yesterday until I saw a better deal in the FS. It's still $500 or so more than the HE-560 in the used market which is still a good amount.
> 
> Either way this is the case in this hobby or most hobbies I assume. Diminishing gains hits hard in this price range and there really isn't any bang for your buck. The HE-560 is a very good headphone. The only thing I did not like about them was the coaxial connector that's difficult to twist on or off. I hate those connectors with the back of tv's as well but that's another topic. Even with better gear there is a difference although it may not be as large as you may like. For someone such as myself I am willing to pay for the difference however some others may not.


 
  
 Cost of the new HD800 was $1400 from Amazon.com  Amazon is preferred because I get free shipping and free returns for 30 days.

 My resale of my HE-560 would optimistically net me $600.  That makes the upgrade cost $800.

 It is a bias that I freely admit to but I am trying force myself to say: _Which HP should I keep regardless of cost?_  

 At the end of the month, the money isn't really the issue.  _It would be the nagging doubt that I spent $800 when I didn't need to_.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

gr8desire said:


> It is a bias that I freely admit to but I am trying force myself to say: _Which HP should I keep regardless of cost?_
> 
> At the end of the month, the money isn't really the issue.  _It would be the nagging doubt that I spent $800 when I didn't need to_.


 
 Comfort-wise, they're about equal. Comes right down to which one will *best fit *the music you listen to *most*.
  
 The Headphone Gods are waiting.....


----------



## koiloco

gr8desire said:


> Cost of the new HD800 was $1400 from Amazon.com  Amazon is preferred because I get free shipping and free returns for 30 days.
> 
> 
> My resale of my HE-560 would optimistically net me $600.  That makes the upgrade cost $800.
> ...



Don't forget that the hd800 will need at least decent matching amp to give u the same enjoyment as the 560.


----------



## rawrster

I have no idea how the HA-1 sounds but there are others happy with that and the HD800 combo. It does seem that the HD800 was given a fair chance and that's all that one could ask for. Of course that could change with different gear but also an expensive and could be a disappointing if the wrong gear is picked.
  
 If I were you I would probably return the HD800 since it sounds like the HE-560 is good enough for you.


----------



## Gr8Desire

koiloco said:


> Don't forget that the hd800 will need at least decent matching amp to give u the same enjoyment as the 560.


 
  
 My amp is the Oppo HA-1.  Not planning any changes this decade.


----------



## thecrow

gr8desire said:


> I know this isn't the blasphemous _sound science_ forum, but I insist on removing as many biases as I can. I will do A-B and ABX testing as much as I can to get an honest result. Nothing pedantic - just as fair as I can make it.  Fear not,_ enjoying the music_ is the end result.
> 
> 
> My amp is the Oppo HA-1. It is adequate and I don't plan on changing it for many years. I am not interested in tube amps. I expect the HPs to reproduce sounds accurately. Those that require _distorted source material _ to sound correct are simply removed from my list. I find it hard to believe that Sennheiser or any other top tier vendor makes products that sound bad with accurate source material.
> ...


Not sure if ABX testing is needed. To my ears there is a noticeable difference between these two. The hd800s are quite unique in their offering. 

Like others have said the oppo ha1 has been an amp hd800 owners have been happy with. 

I myself have a soloist I am happy with hd800. And at a recent local meet a number of people there enjoyed the he560 with the soloist. 

If you stick with the he560s ( and whichever way you go you'll end up with a great headphone) you can always, in my preferences and ears, try the dt880s as a cheap, but good value, alternative to the hd800. 

It was stated a number of pages earlier in this thread by a few people that the whole "the hd800 is difficult to match with an amp" statement is a bit overrated. 

Just my 2 cents worth. 
Good luck with your choice - you can't lose either way.


----------



## ziggysp2000

> It was stated a number of pages earlier in this thread by a few people that the whole "the hd800 is difficult to match with an amp" statement is a bit overrated.


 
 I agree. There is no doubt that amp can make a significant difference in sound, but some people make it sound like you have to spend $3000 to make HD800 even tolerable.
  
 It's simply not true.


----------



## rwalkerphl

ziggysp2000 said:


> I agree. There is no doubt that amp can make a significant difference in sound, but some people make it sound like you have to spend $3000 to make HD800 even tolerable.
> 
> It's simply not true.


 

 I agree with this too. I have a Little Dot MKIV SE, and it's working well with the HD800's. I did try tube rolling, and found different tubes sounded better, but other than that, it's sounding very good for me.


----------



## Oregonian

gr8desire said:


> Cost of the new HD800 was $1400 from Amazon.com  Amazon is preferred because I get free shipping and free returns for 30 days.
> 
> My resale of my HE-560 would optimistically net me $600.  That makes the upgrade cost $800.
> 
> ...


 

 Just another perspective/choice - I just got a HD800 from AWD for less than $1000.  They regularly have them for around $1100ish, so that may help your decision. 
  
 Good luck whatever you choose!


----------



## rwalkerphl

gr8desire said:


> Cost of the new HD800 was $1400 from Amazon.com  Amazon is preferred because I get free shipping and free returns for 30 days.
> 
> My resale of my HE-560 would optimistically net me $600.  That makes the upgrade cost $800.
> 
> ...


 

 Well, I've put my HE-560's up for sale. My HD800's cost $925, so I'm not so badly in the hole. But, as with you, money isn't really an issue. Also, it looks like you have plenty of other HP's to listen too as well, so likely you won't get bored


----------



## Buddhahacker

oregonian said:


> Just another perspective/choice - I just got a HD800 from AWD for less than $1000.  They regularly have them for around $1100ish, so that may help your decision.
> 
> Good luck whatever you choose!


 
 I purchased both my T1, HD800 and several other audio pieces from AWD at least 30% off list.  While they are used I found that only the packaging showed signs of wear.  The T1 and HD800 were both in pristine condition.  I would have no hesitation purchasing from AWD especially since you can return with no questions asked.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

rwalkerphl said:


> Well, I've put my HE-560's up for sale. My HD800's cost $925, so I'm not so badly in the hole. But, as with you, money isn't really an issue. Also, it looks like you have plenty of other HP's to listen too as well, so likely you won't get bored




I was going for the HEKs, but just cannot justify the price difference. So I am trading my PS1000s for a pair of NIB HD800's. Will keep my 560s for now, to have the planar/dynamic mix. Am ping with a Taurus Mk. 2 and either a Monarchy M22B or an Über Bifrost. 

I listen to mostly classical, jazz, classic rock or acoustic, really looking forward to trying the HD800s in my system!


----------



## whirlwind

wildcatsare1 said:


> rwalkerphl said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I've put my HE-560's up for sale. My HD800's cost $925, so I'm not so badly in the hole. But, as with you, money isn't really an issue. Also, it looks like you have plenty of other HP's to listen too as well, so likely you won't get bored
> ...


 
 Congrats.....hope you like them.....looking forward to hearing your impressions.


----------



## drez

canadianmaestro said:


> nahhh...but that's just me. for a dynamic driver....maybe a top planar mag for that kinda dough.
> defend your spending...it's ok. we all do it.




For technical performance per dollar I struggle to think of planar that can match the HD800. wait that didnt come out right. Well for the top planars i have heard, none are clearly better buy than hd800...


----------



## Moonhead

I can related to that as my first serious can was HE6, afterwards i got some HD800 and found them miles ahead of HE6 in everyway and my Hifiman where powered by a heavy Cayin amp. 
 I have listen to LCD3 to but the only can that touches or pokes to Stax is HD800, IMO.. luckily we all have different taste and I can relate to people preferring the Planar sound over the dynamic sound.


----------



## koiloco

moonhead said:


> I can related to that as my first serious can was HE6, afterwards *i got some HD800 and found them miles ahead of HE6* *in everyway* and my Hifiman where powered by a heavy Cayin amp.
> I have listen to LCD3 to but the only can that touches or pokes to Stax is HD800, IMO.. luckily we all have different taste and I can relate to people preferring the Planar sound over the dynamic sound.


 
 IMO and experience so far with both, I respectfully disagree.  I've found the HD800 and HE6 complimenting each other nicely.


----------



## kuekwee

Wanna ask which type of cable should i get for HD800 pure copper, pure silver or copper silver plated?


----------



## Moonhead

Get one from Forza, they are good quality and not that expensive.
  
 http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/category.php?id_category=36


----------



## kuekwee

which one should i get?


----------



## Moonhead

The one that you can afford, maybe you shouldn't ask me, because I dont believe they change the sound at all. 
 I have orded the cheapest headphone cable from them for my HD800, only because I like having a shorter cable. 
  
 I Have there cheapest headphone cable for my HD650 too and its very nice with Neutrik plug.


----------



## kuekwee

Me and my 2 cousin all bought hd800 same batch and time. Last weekend we come out to test how does burn in makes different compare with non burn in. We found out that my HD800 have better bass, high and wider sound-stage. Initially we assume is bcos burn in time, then we interchange cable and try and we found out that my cable give different sound.  I put my cable on the other 2 HD800, it widen the soundstage and brighter.  The other 2 cable are tighter and darker. I don't know why but it really have significant different.


----------



## Moonhead

Well that is not a blind test  
 If you believe it, go for it


----------



## kuekwee

Well not really blind test. what happen is that when we go audition hd800 sound awesome. So we 3 decided to buy. When we got the new unit aw, sound so bad compare with what we have now. Beyer T1(cousin), 1964 Stage(cousin) and Shure535(me). So i call my cousin and complaint, so we come out see how other unit perform.  So result all 3 unit is different lol.


----------



## pervysage

Recently picked up a pair of HD800's off Craigslist. Considering that the price of these new is supposed to jump up to $1799 CAD new, I think I got myself a pretty damn good deal. Ended up getting a pair for $1100 CAD, practically brand new (only used for about an hour to test out a new piece of equipment so the dealer sold it as used stock. Anyways, I have been using the TH900's for about a year now and have always been curious about the HD800. It was just by lucky chance that I was browsing Craigslist randomly and came up the ad for the HD800's only posted a couple hours ago. If the ad been posted any later than the time I checked, I probably wouldn't have checked again in a long time and missed out on this nice deal.
  
 So how do I like the sound? Well, I can certainly see now what all the hype is all about, these things take clarity to the next level, wow! I have been using the TH900 for a while now and they have been great. When I first bought the TH900, I cross-shopped them with the HD800 and decided against the 800's because a lot of people described them as "flat" sounding and too analytical. Considering that I was going to listen to a lot of EDM and a little bit of hip-hop music, I thought the way the TH900 was described, they would be the better match for me. After hearing these babies for myself, I can now see why people say you have to hear a headphone with your own ears before making any decisions. While they are not the bassiest headphones out there, they are certainly NOT bass light like many have described. I find the HD800 deliver quite a bit of punch when the music calls for it. When first listening to them, sure they felt a bit bass-light to me, but after giving them a day or two and settling to the sound that early impression was wiped away. It was just that initial shock of going from a more bass heavy headphone (TH900) to the HD800 that threw me off a little bit.
  
 I was taking a chance by putting down quite a bit of cash for a headphone that I might not even like, but I figured I could just sell them off and not lose any money on them considering the deal I was getting. But these babies are not going anywhere anytime soon. At the moment, my TH900 are barely getting any head time compared to the 800's, even for genres of music that a lot of people would prefer the TH900 for. I find the HD800 sounds amazing with EDM tracks, that soundstage and clarity is just something I have never heard before. The HD800's make the TH900 seem almost congested. The presentation and how everything is laid out in the soundscape on the HD800 is just perfect. When it comes to vocals, the HD800's pretty much blow the TH900 away, I hate to say. I love the TH900, but like many others have reported, the mids are a bit recessed. Vocals and mids on the HD800 just sound heavenly.
  
 And the most shocking thing for me is, considering how much people complain about the brightness of the HD800's, somehow I find that the TH900's are brighter than the HD800. Does anyone else find that to be the case? I can listen to the HD800's at decent volumes and rarely find them to be over bright. I find the TH900's to be a bit piercing on certain tracks but have not experienced that with the HD800's as much. I can just throw them on, sit back close my eyes and enjoy that amazing layered presentation that the HD800's have. Instrument separation is just on another level with these headphones, you can hear everything individually, but it sounds very natural to me. 
  
 I will still be keeping my TH900 as they provide a nice contrast to the HD800 sound but wow, I did not expect the HD800's to deliver this much. I can listen to EDM tracks on the 800 and not feel the need to pick up my TH900's at all. For hip-hop music, the TH900 might be the better choice but I am finding it difficult to take the HD800's off my head 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have a Cavalli Liquid Carbon on order and can't wait to hear how that sounds with the HD800.


----------



## Moonhead

Nice Impressions! 
  
 I also think TH900 sounds brighter and not as natural as HD800, that where the dealbreaker for me with Fostex. 
 EDM is diffently on anoter level with HD800, maybe the best can for that genre surpassing Stax, IMHO.


----------



## Sorrodje

I'm on the same page for TH900 treble I find really piercing except of a bunch of amps.  And yes the HD800 is a great headphone for Electronic music. 
  
 Congrats for the purchase


----------



## kuekwee

we bought 3 unit at once. one of the unit with stock cable treble is piercing the other 2 ok.


----------



## whirlwind

pervysage said:


> Recently picked up a pair of HD800's off Craigslist. Considering that the price of these new is supposed to jump up to $1799 CAD new, I think I got myself a pretty damn good deal. Ended up getting a pair for $1100 CAD, practically brand new (only used for about an hour to test out a new piece of equipment so the dealer sold it as used stock. Anyways, I have been using the TH900's for about a year now and have always been curious about the HD800. It was just by lucky chance that I was browsing Craigslist randomly and came up the ad for the HD800's only posted a couple hours ago. If the ad been posted any later than the time I checked, I probably wouldn't have checked again in a long time and missed out on this nice deal.
> 
> So how do I like the sound? Well, I can certainly see now what all the hype is all about, these things take clarity to the next level, wow! I have been using the TH900 for a while now and they have been great. When I first bought the TH900, I cross-shopped them with the HD800 and decided against the 800's because a lot of people described them as "flat" sounding and too analytical. Considering that I was going to listen to a lot of EDM and a little bit of hip-hop music, I thought the way the TH900 was described, they would be the better match for me. After hearing these babies for myself, I can now see why people say you have to hear a headphone with your own ears before making any decisions. While they are not the bassiest headphones out there, they are certainly NOT bass light like many have described. I find the HD800 deliver quite a bit of punch when the music calls for it. When first listening to them, sure they felt a bit bass-light to me, but after giving them a day or two and settling to the sound that early impression was wiped away. It was just that initial shock of going from a more bass heavy headphone (TH900) to the HD800 that threw me off a little bit.
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats on your new purchase....they are great cans....enjoy.


----------



## tankhuu1994

have any tried the HD800 with the Valhalla 2, and how do they pair? Better yet, would it be okay pairing the Valhalla 2 with the Modi?


----------



## Rumiho

tankhuu1994 said:


> have any tried the HD800 with the Valhalla 2, and how do they pair? Better yet, would it be okay pairing the Valhalla 2 with the Modi?


 
 I currently use the HD800 paired with the Valhalla 2 and Bifrost Uber and it sounds excellent. I can't speak to how well it pairs with the Modi though as I went straight to Bifrost.


----------



## cocolinho

rumiho said:


> I currently use the HD800 paired with the Valhalla 2 and Bifrost Uber and it sounds excellent. I can't speak to how well it pairs with the Modi though as I went straight to Bifrost.


 
 Same combo here
 Excellent with any kind of music!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

ditto with the Vali. They just arrived 12 hours ago but I can already testify to the quality of the sound and pairing, with the caveat that they're known to scale very well with improved source components, incl balanced cables. I'm as much of a schiit enthusiast as anyone, but I really want to try out the Phonitor 2/mini.


----------



## Sorrodje

Yea the Vali does a great job as well although the downgrade from the Audio-GD HE-9 to the Vali is significant.  I Still have some month of wait for the Stratus and it will be looooong.


----------



## Zoom25

pervysage said:


> Recently picked up a pair of HD800's off Craigslist. Considering that the price of these new is supposed to jump up to $1799 CAD new, I think I got myself a pretty damn good deal. Ended up getting a pair for $1100 CAD, practically brand new (only used for about an hour to test out a new piece of equipment so the dealer sold it as used stock. Anyways, I have been using the TH900's for about a year now and have always been curious about the HD800. It was just by lucky chance that I was browsing Craigslist randomly and came up the ad for the HD800's only posted a couple hours ago. If the ad been posted any later than the time I checked, I probably wouldn't have checked again in a long time and missed out on this nice deal.
> 
> So how do I like the sound? Well, I can certainly see now what all the hype is all about, these things take clarity to the next level, wow! I have been using the TH900 for a while now and they have been great. When I first bought the TH900, I cross-shopped them with the HD800 and decided against the 800's because a lot of people described them as "flat" sounding and too analytical. Considering that I was going to listen to a lot of EDM and a little bit of hip-hop music, I thought the way the TH900 was described, they would be the better match for me. After hearing these babies for myself, I can now see why people say you have to hear a headphone with your own ears before making any decisions. While they are not the bassiest headphones out there, they are certainly NOT bass light like many have described. I find the HD800 deliver quite a bit of punch when the music calls for it. When first listening to them, sure they felt a bit bass-light to me, but after giving them a day or two and settling to the sound that early impression was wiped away. It was just that initial shock of going from a more bass heavy headphone (TH900) to the HD800 that threw me off a little bit.
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats! I had the same initial reaction with HD 800. Electronic on HD 800 for me is better than HE-500, HE-6, LCD-2, LCD-3, T1 and D2000. The 3Dness and airy treble with pinpoint accuracy and a realistic soundstage make it a perfect match. However, nowadays, I really spend most time listening to vocal stuff with HD 800. Hip hop, rap, R&B, jazz, acoustic, pop, indie - are just amazing with the HD 800. I didn't think it was possible to have this kind of bass and mid range performance from headphones. It took me a few years to finally get the sonics with the right sound signature I was expecting to find in my head. The HD 800 driver precision and resolution is what I expect out of high end 3-way sealed cabinets.


----------



## Gr8Desire

macedonianhero said:


> For folks in the GTA (greater Toronto area), I swung by BayBloorRadio today and noted that they had brand new HD800s for $1200 Cdn for a brand new pair. That's $925 US approximately. Why the great deal? No, the HD900s are not around the corner, but what the salesperson told me was that there was actually a price increase coming in the fall due to the weaker Canadian $ next to the US $, so they bought a boat load of HD800s. This deal is ONLY available in-store...so if you're in Hogtown and always wanted a pair of the legendary HD800s, now is as good as ever!


 
  
 I was on an business trip to Toronto that finished on Tuesday. Before heading to airport I found the store mentioned and indeed you are correct:  Still offering new HD800 for $1200 CDN.  "_I'll take them", I said._

 I returned the HD 800s I bought online earlier this month from Amazon and have now saved $400 in the exchange.  Enough of a savings that I can rationalize owning HD 800s for the next few years.  _ Happy customer._


----------



## elvergun

pervysage said:


> So how do I like the sound? Well, I can certainly see now what all the hype is all about, these things take clarity to the next level, wow! I have been using the TH900 for a while now and they have been great. When I first bought the TH900,* I cross-shopped them with the HD800 and decided against the 800's because a lot of people described them as "flat" sounding and too analytical. *Considering that I was going to listen to a lot of EDM and a little bit of hip-hop music, I thought the way the TH900 was described, they would be the better match for me. After hearing these babies for myself, I can now see why people say you have to hear a headphone with your own ears before making any decisions. While they are not the bassiest headphones out there, they are certainly NOT bass light like many have described. I find the HD800 deliver quite a bit of punch when the music calls for it. When first listening to them, sure they felt a bit bass-light to me, but after giving them a day or two and settling to the sound that early impression was wiped away. It was just that initial shock of going from a more bass heavy headphone (TH900) to the HD800 that threw me off a little bit.


 
  
  
 Gotta love the moment when a basshead and the HD800 meet for the first time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   And you also gotta love how fast those bassheads run to this forum after that first encounter to report how the HD800 is soooooo bass light.


----------



## MacedonianHero

gr8desire said:


> I was on an business trip to Toronto that finished on Tuesday. Before heading to airport I found the store mentioned and indeed you are correct:  Still offering new HD800 for $1200 CDN.  "_I'll take them", I said._
> 
> I returned the HD 800s I bought online earlier this month from Amazon and have now saved $400 in the exchange.  Enough of a savings that I can rationalize owning HD 800s for the next few years.  _ Happy customer._


 
  
 A great deal indeed. BBR is one of the most well known hifi stores in the GTA. Congrats!


----------



## 3083joe

zoom25 said:


> Congrats! I had the same initial reaction with HD 800. Electronic on HD 800 for me is better than HE-500, HE-6, LCD-2, LCD-3, T1 and D2000. The 3Dness and airy treble with pinpoint accuracy and a realistic soundstage make it a perfect match. However, nowadays, I really spend most time listening to vocal stuff with HD 800. Hip hop, rap, R&B, jazz, acoustic, pop, indie - are just amazing with the HD 800. I didn't think it was possible to have this kind of bass and mid range performance from headphones. It took me a few years to finally get the sonics with the right sound signature I was expecting to find in my head. The HD 800 driver precision and resolution is what I expect out of high end 3-way sealed cabinets.



Nice 

I'm on the 700s but am think about making the switch soon.


----------



## Zoom25

elvergun said:


> Gotta love the moment when a basshead and the HD800 meet for the first time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 +1. I really wish I went straight to the HD 800 instead of paying attention to all those basslight comments about the HD 800. Didn't even touch it for several years. I wasted so much time and money. Instead went with dynamics and planars that were supposed to "deliver" in bass. Although, that might be wishful thinking. Perhaps, then I wouldn't have valued the HD 800 the same?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


3083joe said:


> Nice
> 
> I'm on the 700s but am think about making the switch soon.


 

 I haven't heard the 700s yet, although I see them for cheap all the time on massdrop. I was considering getting them for my dad, but was told from a few to either get the 600/650 or 800. Something about sharp treble or U/V shaped?


----------



## 3083joe

zoom25 said:


> +1. I really wish I went straight to the HD 800 instead of paying attention to all those basslight comments about the HD 800. Didn't even touch it for several years. I wasted so much time and money. Instead went with dynamics and planars that were supposed to "deliver" in bass. Although, that might be wishful thinking. Perhaps, then I wouldn't have valued the HD 800 the same?:blink:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I had 580, 598, 600, 650. Sold all when I got the700. Have preferred them since. 
Treble isn't an issue. 
I enjoy the sound signature of them a lot. Was worried at first but enjoy them now.


----------



## Rayzilla

pervysage said:


> ...
> 
> So how do I like the sound? Well, I can certainly see now what all the hype is all about, these things take clarity to the next level, wow! I have been using the TH900 for a while now and they have been great. When I first bought the TH900, I cross-shopped them with the HD800 and decided against the 800's because a lot of people described them as "flat" sounding and too analytical. Considering that I was going to listen to a lot of EDM and a little bit of hip-hop music, I thought the way the TH900 was described, they would be the better match for me. After hearing these babies for myself, I can now see why people say you have to hear a headphone with your own ears before making any decisions. While they are not the bassiest headphones out there, they are certainly NOT bass light like many have described. I find the HD800 deliver quite a bit of punch when the music calls for it. When first listening to them, sure they felt a bit bass-light to me, but after giving them a day or two and settling to the sound that early impression was wiped away. It was just that initial shock of going from a more bass heavy headphone (TH900) to the HD800 that threw me off a little bit.
> 
> ...


 
 This is exactly what I would write/say, except that I seriously contemplated buying the TH900 before I came to my senses to give other headphones an audition before plunking down the dough. Now when I try the TH900 at the stores, the bass sounds too bloated for my liking. I cannot ever seeing myself selling off the HD 800; even if I were to go for the SR-009.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

3083joe said:


> I had 580, 598, 600, 650. Sold all when I got the700. Have preferred them since.
> Treble isn't an issue.
> I enjoy the sound signature of them a lot. Was worried at first but enjoy them now.


 
 I've been contrasting the 600 and the 800 for the past several days, and the main reason for the HD600, a supposed smoothness (perhaps even euphony? though that's more the HD650's reputation) that the HD800 forgoes in favor of detail, seems to me to be a bit spurious. I surely have many hours of listening in front of me before I come to any conclusion, but with the Vali I hear no harshness whatsoever with the 800, certainly no dimension of their 'analytical' character that makes them any colder than I would like, and the differences come down mainly to largeness of soundstage; 600 feels like a chamber where 800 feels like a concert hall—though I should say I listen almost entirely to classical music, so my reactions are of narrow importance.
  
 I've always wondered whether there is a good reason to buy the 700s other than price difference (never heard them). Are they genuinely superior at anything vis-a-vis the 800? EDM? Pop?


----------



## Oregonian

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I've been contrasting the 600 and the 800 for the past several days, and the main reason for the HD600, a supposed smoothness (perhaps even euphony? though that's more the HD650's reputation) that the HD800 forgoes in favor of detail, seems to me to be a bit spurious. I surely have many hours of listening in front of me before I come to any conclusion, but with the Vali I hear no harshness whatsoever with the 800, certainly no dimension of their 'analytical' character that makes them any colder than I would like, and the differences come down mainly to largeness of soundstage; 600 feels like a chamber where 800 feels like a concert hall—though I should say I listen almost entirely to classical music, so my reactions are of narrow importance.
> 
> *I've always wondered whether there is a good reason to buy the 700s other than price difference (never heard them). Are they genuinely superior at anything vis-a-vis the 800*? EDM? Pop?


 
 I owned them for about 6 months and now that I have the 800 my experience is there is nothing it does as well.  It's a good headphone, don't get me wrong, and for $450ish is a great deal.  I really liked it but I love the 800.


----------



## mikoss

Physical torture perhaps?


----------



## ExistentialEAR

I would love to get my hands (ears) on HD800. I would! Does it give you insight into the heavens and abyss, eq tweaking would be fun


----------



## Rumiho

Been watching blurays all day with my new set-up. It appears the HD 800's are quite amazing with movies/anime as well.

 Also, has anyone heard the Cavalli Liquid Carbon with the HD 800's, or even if not, from what is known now would it be a decent pairing?
  
 While I do like the sound of my Valhalla 2 and Bifrost Uber pairing it's kinda annoying how hot the tubes make my desk area. Not to mention that I'd prefer to have an amp I could leave on all the time.


----------



## Moonhead

Get a solid state then  
  
 This is cheap and very capable 
  
  
 http://www.thomann.de/dk/superlux_ha3d.htm


----------



## Rayzilla

moonhead said:


> Get a solid state then
> 
> This is cheap and very capable
> 
> ...


 
 That looks very interesting (and affordable too, instead of using the word "cheap"). Can you tell us a little about it?


----------



## Moonhead

I can power 3 headphones and runs on batteries, it can use an adapter too, but thats not included. 
 I cant honestly tell the difference between this little tank built portable amp to the Questyle cma800r i use to own, If anything the Superlux is more neutral and fare better value.
 Recommend from a gentleman who runs a professinal studio recording for Mark Knifer etc.


----------



## Kyle 491

The HD800/TH900 make a great pairing, simply for the fact that on a lot of recordings that have been recorded with lacking bass (either quality or quantity) the TH900 will give a satisfying boost to, due to its emphasis in this region as opposed to the HD800 which will sound a bit bass-light. The power of the Fostex sub-bass response is hard to match, considering how fast it decays compared to planar bass, and it doesn't sacrifice imaging capability as much as most planars do compared to the HD800. The HD800/TH900 combo is perfect for those who love a hard-hitting and exciting presentation of music.


----------



## rawrster

I picked up the HD800 today. I had a charleston balanced cable ready to go. Although a bit expensive I did get the cable within a week from ordering which is much better than most of the cable companies out there.
  
 I'm using these with the Taurus and V800 dac. It's my third time owning the HD800 so third time should be the charm. It sounds just like I remembered them. The S/N i have is in the 30k range. I've owned one in the 600's and another one in the 6k range. I don't have the frequency chart (I don't really care about it anyway) but it's probably very similar to the other two I've owned. All I have to do is sell my HE-6 and I should be set for a long time.


----------



## koiloco

rawrster said:


> I picked up the HD800 today. I had a charleston balanced cable ready to go. Although a bit expensive I did get the cable within a week from ordering which is much better than most of the cable companies out there.
> 
> I'm using these with the Taurus and V800 dac. It's my third time owning the HD800 so third time should be the charm. It sounds just like I remembered them. The S/N i have is in the 30k range. I've owned one in the 600's and another one in the 6k range. I don't have the frequency chart (I don't really care about it anyway) but it's probably very similar to the other two I've owned. All I have to do is *sell my HE-6 and I should be set for a long time. *


 
 Do you have to sell your HE-6?


----------



## rawrster

koiloco said:


> Do you have to sell your HE-6?




Yes I do. While it does sound good even from my system it's hard to ignore the limitations of my setup as I've heard it from better amps. My hd800 is better than the he6 right now. I knew that before buying the he6 but I was hoping that wasn't the case. Whoever ends up buying them will get a good deal. Nothing against the he6 but it's better off with someone else. 

The hd800 also has some value for me in that it was the first totl headphone I purchased once I had the means to do so and it suits my preferences almost perfectly.


----------



## rwalkerphl

For those that have heard about the HD800's being anaemic in the bass, I suggest a sound test with any Thievery Corporation album to correct that misinformation 
  
 On the flip side, I have hit my first bad recording that has sibilance - Marillion, Misplaced Childhood. But, to be fair to the HD800's, I did know that it is a pretty awful recording. Of course, I can l live (have lived) with the quality for many years, as the album is so good  Ah, the memories of growing up in suburban England, under age drinking in pubs...


----------



## Dragonsan

Just got back from a vacation.
  
 I missed my HD800s more than my own home. Is this bad?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

dragonsan said:


> Just got back from a vacation.
> 
> I missed my HD800s more than my own home. Is this bad?


 
 time to get the AKG n90q?


----------



## Gr8Desire

dragonsan said:


> Just got back from a vacation.
> 
> I missed my HD800s more than my own home. Is this bad?


 

 Take them with you next time


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Another option would be the Alclair RSM Quad ciems, they are the in-ear HD800s, and you don't look like an alien,


----------



## hekeli

moonhead said:


> I cant honestly tell the difference between this little tank built portable amp to the Questyle cma800r i use to own, If anything the Superlux is more neutral and fare better value.


 
  
 Sound a bit scetchy, at 200 ohms output impedance Superlux should easily make audible difference with HD800.


----------



## 3083joe

wildcatsare1 said:


> Another option would be the Alclair RSM Quad ciems, they are the in-ear HD800s, and you don't look like an alien,


 

 Interesting, they really aren't that expansion! are they really that good?
 thanks


----------



## Wildcatsare1

3083joe said:


> Interesting, they really aren't that expansion! are they really that good?
> thanks




They are very neutral, not bright, with a very surprisingly good soundstage. They sound great out my iPhone, Glacier or Taurus Mk.2.

Marc ( Alclair) is also developing a 6 and 8 driver version as well. Given his history of creating very high quality, at affordable prices.


----------



## MattTCG

Project Ember is pretty nice with the hd800 but I'm finding it only decent. Crack with SB is better. Questyle cma800r is surprisingly good.


----------



## MasterChef

Anyone get their HD 800 from the Verizon smart rewards store? Sorry if this question's a bit out of place here - just wondering if this is a trustworthy place to buy a new pair of HD 800. They are currently available for $1045 +tax (if you have ~43,000 rewards points available to spend). They also have a variety of other Sennheiser headphones for sale at discounted prices, if you are part of the rewards program with spare points to spend, of course.


----------



## koiloco

@MasterChef, I just looked at my verizon account too.  @ $1045 + tax for new is not a bad deal, IMO.


----------



## ThePhoenix924S

I just bought a pair off of Verizon. Took them a few days to ship and their e-mail notification that it shipped was extra late, but I should be receiving mine tomorrow evening via UPS. Can't wait to try them out! I've wanted a pair since I discovered Sennheiser five years ago and only hope I enjoy them as much as I think I will. Now to resist the temptation to upgrade my entire system....


----------



## rawrster

Does that come with a warranty too? That's a really nice price and around the used prices for a hd800.


----------



## koiloco

rawrster said:


> Does that come with a warranty too? That's a really nice price and around the used prices for a hd800.


 
 It's a brand new, official HD800 so I would venture to say yes.


----------



## Oregonian

matttcg said:


> Project Ember is pretty nice with the hd800 but I'm finding it only decent. Crack with SB is better. Questyle cma800r is surprisingly good.


 

 How do you like them out of your vintage amp?


----------



## MasterChef

thephoenix924s said:


> I just bought a pair off of Verizon. Took them a few days to ship and their e-mail notification that it shipped was extra late, but I should be receiving mine tomorrow evening via UPS. Can't wait to try them out! I've wanted a pair since I discovered Sennheiser five years ago and only hope I enjoy them as much as I think I will. Now to resist the temptation to upgrade my entire system....


 
  
  
 Hey thanks for the info. I'd be interested in knowing how recent the serial number is they send you. Also, Sennheiser lists Verizon Wireless as an authorized dealer, just to confirm the above comment regarding warranty.


----------



## Rayzilla

gr8desire said:


> Take them with you next time


I took mine with me on my one month vacation in Canada. My portable amp was 1 channel only so I had to go ampless directly into my MBP. Still good enough for me!


----------



## HiFiChris

Though the MBP doesn't have the worst audio circuit in some areas, especially bass quality benefits from an external DAC/Amp combo.
 But I agree, they are (except for the grossly disgusting high amount of hiss with IEMs though they could have been great partners for IEMs due to their commendably low output impedance) not the worst you could get your HD 800 plugged into and hey, it was "only" one month.


----------



## audioNinja

Hey guys, officially joined the HD800 club. haha. Blown away by it the first time i listened to it.
 Since Im broke from buying this pair, i opted for a cheaper dac/amp option. Expecting the Schiit Magni 2 Uber/Modi 2 Uber soon. 
 Cant wait to put them on.
 If anyone has any idea how the Schiit stack goes with the HD800s, please tell me your views on it.


----------



## koiloco

audioninja said:


> Hey guys, officially joined the HD800 club. haha. Blown away by it the first time i listened to it.
> Since Im broke from buying this pair, i opted for a cheaper dac/amp option. Expecting the Schiit Magni 2 Uber/Modi 2 Uber soon.
> Cant wait to put them on.
> If anyone has any idea how the Schiit stack goes with the HD800s, please tell me your views on it.


 
 Gratz!  I've listened to Magni/Modi combo.  It was good for the $.  Just wondering why you didn't go with the Vali for $20 more?  For HD800, I personally will pick Vali over Magni any day.


----------



## ExistentialEAR

Anyone heard of Superlux


----------



## audioNinja

Fair point. Funny thing is, in Australia the Magni 2 Uber cost quite a lot more than the Vali. LOL. Currecy exchange is a killer.
 But honestly I didnt like the sound of tube amps with the HD800. I tried a few high end ones and didnt like the sound they produced.
 Plus I heard the Magni can also drive IEMs so thought it would be a better option over the Vali. Also doesnt the Magni 2 have more power for HD800?


----------



## Moonhead

I have the Superlux HA3D and it is a excellent little tank built Amp, that is somewhat portable and runs on 2 AA batteriers. 
 Ive got it recommend by a Pro Studio guy and it is extremely good value.


----------



## Taowolf51

audioninja said:


> Fair point. Funny thing is, in Australia the Magni 2 Uber cost quite a lot more than the Vali. LOL. Currecy exchange is a killer.
> But honestly I didnt like the sound of tube amps with the HD800. I tried a few high end ones and didnt like the sound they produced.
> Plus I heard the Magni can also drive IEMs so thought it would be a better option over the Vali. Also doesnt the Magni 2 have more power for HD800?


 
  
 What tube amps did you use? It's worth noting that some tube amps can be very tubey and others may be hardly tubey at all. Schiit's tube amps lean heavily towards the latter.
  
 Of course, you're not going to want to use IEMs with the Vali, so if amping IEMs or low impedance/very sensitive cans is important to you, stay away from the Vali.
  
 The Magni 2 uber has a bit more power at 300 ohms than the Vali (320mW vs. 220mW at 300 ohms), but it's only really an extra db or so of volume. The Magni 2 Uber's power really comes into play when using low impedance headphones. The HD800's aren't planars, they're not crazy power hungry or anything. They're actually pretty sensitive, they can get pretty loud on even a smartphone (though I don't really recommend it).


----------



## ruthieandjohn

taowolf51 said:


> The HD800's aren't planars, they're not crazy power hungry or anything. They're actually pretty sensitive, they can get pretty loud on even a smartphone (though I don't really recommend it).


----------



## lukeap69

ruthieandjohn said:


>


 
 Very funny KJ!


----------



## Taowolf51

ruthieandjohn said:


>


 
  
 Would it make it worse if I said it didn't actually sound too bad?


----------



## koiloco

taowolf51 said:


> Would it make it worse if I said it didn't actually sound too bad?


 
 +1
  
 And you are a brave man for saying that.


----------



## whirlwind

ruthieandjohn said:


> taowolf51 said:
> 
> 
> > The HD800's aren't planars, they're not crazy power hungry or anything. They're actually pretty sensitive, they can get pretty loud on even a smartphone (though I don't really recommend it).


----------



## ThePhoenix924S

I've now had a few hours with my HD800s (ordered from Verizon Rewards, as mentioned earlier). Firstly, I am extremely impressed with the clarity and separation between notes/ instruments. Just lovely. I'm very much looking forward to listening through most of my library to compare with my HD650s. For those who are interested, my serial number is in the 40,500s. They came in a sealed cardboard box with Sennheiser-branded tape. Within is the regular retail packaging, so clearly Verizon/ Destination Rewards orders them direct from Sennheiser and then ships them off to their customers. So far so great and I look forward to my journey into high-end audio (once my wallet stops hurting from this last purchase, that is).


----------



## koiloco

^  Gratz and enjoy.  HD800 is amazing.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

thephoenix924s said:


> I've now had a few hours with my HD800s (ordered from Verizon Rewards, as mentioned earlier). Firstly, I am extremely impressed with the clarity and separation between notes/ instruments. Just lovely. I'm very much looking forward to listening through most of my library to compare with my HD650s.


 

 The 650s are an entirely different creature. Don't expect equivalent sounds from your new 800.
 Congratz, enjoy the music, and don't get obsessed with the comparisons.


----------



## rawrster

Quote:


taowolf51 said:


> Would it make it worse if I said it didn't actually sound too bad?


 
  
 I believe a ban would do you some good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


thephoenix924s said:


> I've now had a few hours with my HD800s (ordered from Verizon Rewards, as mentioned earlier). Firstly, I am extremely impressed with the clarity and separation between notes/ instruments. Just lovely. I'm very much looking forward to listening through most of my library to compare with my HD650s. For those who are interested, my serial number is in the 40,500s. They came in a sealed cardboard box with Sennheiser-branded tape. Within is the regular retail packaging, so clearly Verizon/ Destination Rewards orders them direct from Sennheiser and then ships them off to their customers. So far so great and I look forward to my journey into high-end audio (once my wallet stops hurting from this last purchase, that is).


 
  
 That sounds like a viable option for verizon customers here. I'm not sure how many people know that this is one of the rewards however. I know for my accounts I don't really look at the rewards.
  
  
 On another note, it looks like I am all set. I don't anticipate any changes for a long time. I've decided to save up for a car so audio related purchases will be put on hold until further notice. I did want to save up for a Vega but I have a good enough dac as it is. All I have to do is pack the HE-6 and ship it off and the HD800 will be my only headphone. I haven't had much time to put time on it yet but so far so good. I've used it mostly on youtube and other streaming videos.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

My HD800 are scheduled to arrive today, my recapped Monarchy M22B arrived late last week, an embarrassment of riches!

The Draug 2 balanced should arrive next week, I will be down to the HE560, HD800, Alclair ciems though missing my PS1000.


----------



## Gr8Desire

ruthieandjohn said:


>


 
  
 You can avoid eviction so long as you replace stock cables with glorified lamp cords that, ounce for ounce, cost more than gold.


----------



## Gr8Desire

taowolf51 said:


> ... It's worth noting that some tube amps can be very tubey and others may be hardly tubey at all.  ...


 

 I interpret this statement as: *S**ome tube amps create lots of distortion and others may be hardly distort at all.*   

 ​Given the amount of money people spend on this 'hobby', aren't both worth avoiding at all costs?


----------



## CanadianMaestro

gr8desire said:


> I interpret this statement as: *S**ome tube amps create lots of distortion and others may be hardly distort at all.*
> 
> ​Given the amount of money people spend on this 'hobby', aren't both worth avoiding at all costs?


 

 the ones that don't distort are worth investigating if Mr. Bob Barker recommends it (Da Price Is Right....)


----------



## skeptic

gr8desire said:


> I interpret this statement as: *S**ome tube amps create lots of distortion and others may be hardly distort at all.*
> 
> ​Given the amount of money people spend on this 'hobby', aren't both worth avoiding at all costs?


 
  
 Different people have different sensitivities to different types of distortions.  Nelson Pass has argued that well made nonfeedback amps (e.g. SET amps), have distortion characteristics that are far more like what you hear from live acoustic instruments than the sort of complex non-linear and disproportionate high order distortions produced by feedback amps (i.e. all op amp based amps, most solid state and even some tube amps).  The latter certainly have lower THD, but the former sound better to many people, although not to others.  It is an interesting read: https://passlabs.com/articles/audio-distortion-and-feedback and reinforces the value of attending meets and hearing some of these amps for yourself.


----------



## Taowolf51

gr8desire said:


> I interpret this statement as: *S**ome tube amps create lots of distortion and others may be hardly distort at all.*
> 
> ​Given the amount of money people spend on this 'hobby', aren't both worth avoiding at all costs?


 
  
 Well, when both the tube and SS distortion are well below the level of audibility, and the differences are a tiny tiny fraction of a percent, it doesn't really matter. The tubey sound has more to do with output impedance and FR than anything else, for instance the Bottlehead Crack has an output impedance of 120 ohm, and the Valhalla 2 has an output impedance of 3.5/14 ohms (low/high gain). With 3.5 ohms you're well within the realm of solid state amps, and even with 14 ohm, you're still very comfortably within the 1/10 rule for impedance matching. However, with the 120 ohm Crack, you're blasting well past the 1/10 rule (which would be 30 ohms for the HD800). Being below 1/10 or 1/8 means you start to lose some driver control, especially in the bass area. You also have the headphone FR changing a bit based on the headphone's impedance graph. It's not necessarily bad, just different, and some people prefer it. For instance, the Sennheiser hdvd 800, the amp Senn made to pair with the HD800 has an effective output impedance of 43 ohms, making the fraction slightly less than 1/7. Sennheiser is certainly capable of making a low output impedance amp, especially considering it's expensive and solid state. They chose that output impedance for a reason.
 You also generally see a slight increase in bass and decrease in treble, this mixed with the reduced driver control is most (but likely not all) of what contributes to the "tubey" sound. It's more of a preference than anything else, and doesn't have a ton to do with distortion. Tube amps do more traditionally lean towards lower order and even harmonic distortion, which is known for being more pleasureable, while solid state amps are usually more even in their distortion, but that comes more in to play when you are intentionally distorting the amp (one of the reasons tube guitar amps are popular) because any decent amp won't have audible distortion until clipping.
  
 There's also the whole tube rolling thing, which allows you to play with the signature a little bit.
  
  
 But if you're looking for raw benefits of tubes, one big one is the ability to provide more power into higher impedance loads. Solid state amps are able to output the most power into lower impedance loads, while tubes often are able to output the most power into higher impedance loads. Just as an example, looking at Schiit amps specifically, the Valhalla 2 (800mW) provides more power into the HD800's than the hybrid Lyr 2 (660mW), the solid state Magni 2 Uber (320mW) and Asgard 2 (380mW). It's even pretty much even with the crazy powerful Mjolnir! (850mW). Each of these amps is rated as being more powerful than the Valhalla 2, but once you get to higher impedance headphones, the Valhalla 2 (the only pure tube amp Schiit makes) pulls ahead.
  
 Of course, there are also people who believe tube amps sound better than solid state, and that measurements don't necessarily match perceived sound quality, but that area is a bit of a battle ground and I'd rather not get into it (plus, I'm actually not really on one side or the other).
  
 And honestly, the component in my signal chain that produces the most noise and distortion is my damn ODAC, which measures great, but sometimes throws audible noise and even distortion into my signal chain (until I power cycle it). My tube amp doesn't.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

OK, day 2 with my stock HD800s....tried to burn them in some last night, but my Daughter kept sneaking in and turning the volume all the way down
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!
  
 Listening to the Dead at the Fillmore East, stock, not burned in they are sounding darn good. They continue to improve, as does the M22B.
  
 Once I get the Draug 2 it will be fairly easy to A/B the stock cable and it, stock to the SE and Draug to the balanced input on the Taurus Mk.2.


----------



## icebear

skeptic said:


> Different people have different sensitivities to different types of distortions.  Nelson Pass has argued that *well made nonfeedback amps* (e.g. SET amps), have distortion characteristics that are far more like what you hear from live acoustic instruments than the sort of complex non-linear and disproportionate high order distortions produced by feedback amps (i.e. all op amp based amps, most solid state and even some tube amps).  The latter certainly have lower THD, but *the former sound better to many people, *although not to others.  It is an interesting read: https://passlabs.com/articles/audio-distortion-and-feedback and reinforces the value of attending meets and hearing some of these amps for yourself.


 

 +1 count me in (First Watt M2)


----------



## ExistentialEAR

someone' said hd800 is like mini k702, true


----------



## ExistentialEAR

I find a limiting factor is spl not else.


----------



## wink

Quote:ExistentialEAR 





> someone' said hd800 is like mini k702, true


 
 That's like saying the JPS Labs Abyss is like a mini original Beats.
  
  
 I think the sentence needs reversing.....


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Happy owner of a HD800...for two weeks only, loaned by another h-fier.
 Dynamics², details, and instruments separation. No easy-listening music and/or bright gear (source, amp) allowed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ali


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ali-pacha said:


> Happy owner of a HD800...for two weeks only, loaned by another h-fier.
> Dynamics², details, and instruments separation. No easy-listening music and/or bright gear (source, amp) allowed
> 
> 
> Ali




Ali,

Mine are still burning in and yes the can get a little bright (duh), but it is improving slightly every day. Once I get the Norne Cable in I will get to know them well and then start modding.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

wildcatsare1 said:


> Ali,
> 
> Mine are still burning in and yes the can get a little bright (duh), but it is improving slightly every day. Once I get the Norne Cable in I will get to know them well and then start modding.


 
 This pair belongs to Sorrodje...you may find some of his posts on this thread (and lots of them elsewhere).
 BTW, more than burnt in, Venus Audio cable and modded with some rug liner to tame the treble resonance.
 And an almost all black outfit from colorware, very nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ali-pacha said:


> This pair belongs to Sorrodje...you may find some of his posts on this thread (and lots of them elsewhere).
> BTW, more than burnt in, Venus Audio cable and modded with some rug liner to tame the treble resonance.
> And an almost all black outfit from colorware, very nice
> 
> Ali




He is rather famous actually, great way to start with the HD800....
Sorrodje


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I'm a die-hard Stax fanboy, I try to open my mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ali


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Had the Lamda many years ago, but my audio memory doesn't go that far back. 

So how is the comparison going so far?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Here's an attempt to translate my first contact...excuse my french.
  


> So, I'm baby-sitting Sorrodje's Vali and HD800 (with rug liner mod and venus audio cable) for two weeks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hoping this quick translation isn't too dirty and too painful to read 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Ali


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Ali, thank you, great synopsis, love your "Brazilian Bikini" metaphor! 

Do you have access to a better amp for the 800, the Vali is great at its price, but definitely not the last word.

Also, what music do you listen too?


----------



## Ali-Pacha

I know Vali isn't the best thing you can get for HD800, but it is surely better than my O2 amp. No access to better gear, indeed. 
 But that's the same with the other units : SRM-727II is some steps under KG designs, and Modi 2 uber isn't exactly hi-end 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have to admit I do love HD600 with Vali...I may buy one sooner or later.
  
 Kind of music ? Electro, rock (vintage, pop, trash metal), classical (chamber music to symphony / messiah), some hip-hop. I'm not really a jazz guy, especialy all the female voices audiophiles are craving for.

 Ali


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I love jazz, but disdain the female vocal "stuff" you mention. I love a great recording, but will not listen to crappy music just because it is well recorded.

The O2 is definitely on the bright side with the800s. Really enjoying my Taurus Mk. 2. It pairs extremely well with everything from Grados, iems, HE560 and HD800s.


----------



## porridgecup

Any advice for toning down the brightness and treble spikes with software EQ? Preferably with a parametric EQ like Equalizer APO. I know many consider software EQ sacrilege for headphones like these, but I'd really rather not buy a whole new amp just to use my HD 800.
  
 I have a Bryston BHA-1 amp and Gungnir DAC. I have little audio knowledge and have tried to use tools to help me equalize, but they were very confusing and I had no idea what I was doing.
  
 I'd like it if someone could provide some suggested starting parameters, which I can then adjust to my preference by tweaking things slightly and listening to the differences. I care much more about personal preference rather than accuracy.


----------



## JaZZ

porridgecup said:


> Any advice for toning down the brightness and treble spikes with software EQ? Preferably with a parametric EQ like Equalizer APO. I know many consider software EQ sacrilege for headphones like these, but I'd really rather not buy a whole new amp just to use my HD 800.
> 
> I have a Bryston BHA-1 amp and Gungnir DAC. I have little audio knowledge and have tried to use tools to help me equalize, but they were very confusing and I had no idea what I was doing.
> 
> I'd like it if someone could provide some suggested starting parameters, which I can then adjust to my preference by tweaking things slightly and listening to the differences. I care much more about personal preference rather than accuracy.


 
  
 I use the *octave equalizer* in my FiiO X5 (II) which feeds a Chord Hugo as my home setup. My HD 800 is modified, so most of the treble peak (caused by reflections) is eliminated at the source. Nevertheless, equalizing helps to bring the HD 800 to the next level, and these are my settings:
  
 +5.4      +0.2      –0.8     –0.8      –1.8     –1.8     +0.2      +0.4     –0.8     +3.8        (from 31 Hz to 16 kHz)
  
 If you insist on an unmodified HD 800, I would suggest a curve like this (estimated):
  
 +5.4      +0.2      –0.8     –0.8      –1.8      –2       –0.2      –0.6      –2.6      +2
  
 Software equalizers aren't a sacrilege in my book, in fact they're mandatory for driving high-end headphones to their potential, as I see it. There was a time when I avoided equalizers, but that was with hardware equalizers with their awful signal degradations. Well made software equalizers should be free from that.


----------



## porridgecup

jazz said:


> I use the *octave equalizer* in my FiiO X5 (II) which feeds a Chord Hugo as my home setup. My HD 800 is modified, so most of the treble peak (caused by reflections) is eliminated at the source. Nevertheless, equalizing helps to bring the HD 800 to the next level, and these are my settings:
> 
> +5.4      +0.2      –0.8     –0.8      –1.8     –1.8     +0.2      +0.4     –0.8     +3.8        (from 31 Hz to 16 kHz)
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for the help. I'd prefer not to modify it because I really don't trust myself to do it properly. I'm pretty uncoordinated and not so great with hardware. I have no tools available, am not good at cutting things evenly, and would fear permanently damaging something. If someone were to send me something I could stick to the earcups without any further modification, I would consider trying that.
  
 I don't really know how to convert that curve to parameters for Equalizer APO. Equalizer APO expects each line to contain a frequency, decibel change, and Q.


----------



## JaZZ

porridgecup said:


> Thank you for the help. I'd prefer not to modify it because I really don't trust myself to do it properly. I'm pretty uncoordinated and not so great with hardware. I have no tools available, am not good at cutting things evenly, and would fear permanently damaging something. If someone were to send me something I could stick to the earcups without any further modification, I would consider trying that.
> 
> I don't really know how to convert that curve to parameters for Equalizer APO. Equalizer APO expects each line to contain a frequency, decibel change, and Q.


 
  
 The frequencies are 31, 62.5, 125, 250, 500, 1000, 2000, 4000, 8000 and 16,000 Hz.
 The Q factor for 1 octave is 1.4142.
 Decibel values for amplitude corrections are those indicated.
  
 Of course with your APO which appears to be a parametric equalizer you could make more precise corrections, but you were asking for a starting point.


----------



## johnjen

jazz said:


> I use the *octave equalizer* in my FiiO X5 (II) which feeds a Chord Hugo as my home setup. My HD 800 is modified, so most of the treble peak (caused by reflections) is eliminated at the source. Nevertheless, equalizing helps to bring the HD 800 to the next level, and these are my settings:
> 
> +5.4      +0.2      –0.8     –0.8      –1.8     –1.8     +0.2      +0.4     –0.8     +3.8        (from 31 Hz to 16 kHz)
> 
> ...


 
 I agree with this portion to a HUGE degree… "with hardware equalizers with their awful signal degradations".
  
 And I too use DSP on modified 800's but my EQ of choice is a little bit different.
  
 And I too ran DSP using parametric EQ, and 1/3rd & full octave FR EQ  to deal with the resonant peak and other areas of the response curve.
 I never liked the results much at all.
  
 Until I started using these settings… within a DSP parametric EQ that is built into Media Center.
  
  
 16Hz
 +4dB
 Q= 0.16
  
 Of course these variables can be fussed with to suit your paricular desired effects
 I have explored a Q as high as 0.3 (and higher) and as low as 0.10
 But I keep coming back to the 0.17 ±0.02
 I have dropped the gain down to 3dB and to 3.5dB but the near visceral impact (punch or concussive) effect gets slightly soft.
 And I admit I haven't gone over 4dB as I hear no need to…
  
 And I have run the frequency down to 13Hz and up to 35Hz
  
 And when varying any setting, all the other paramters were fussed with to find a good 'fit'.
 I just keep coming back to those listed above ± a couple of steps either way of those settings.
  
 This along with a few other extreme bottom end mods/enhancements make for the full effect of a wide frequency and dynamic range system with a 'solid' near DC (sub-harmonic) articulate base as its foundation.
  
  
 But this use of DSP should (assuming the rest of the system can reach down well below 10Hz AND you have source material that actually reaches down that far), bring the extreme bottom end up to a 'satisfying' level.
 And there are 'side effects' which many might find to be 'unexpected benefits' but really are the whole point of all of this and these were what I had hoped to 'restore' in the first place.
 But I gotta admit the bass is (or can be) quite impressive, way down low.
  
 JJ


----------



## Gr8Desire

jazz said:


> Software equalizers aren't a sacrilege in my book, in fact they're mandatory for driving high-end headphones to their potential, as I see it. There was a time when I avoided equalizers, but that was with hardware equalizers with their awful signal degradations. Well made software equalizers should be free from that.


 
  
 If you choose to listen to headphones at less than maximum volume, how can you _not_ use EQ (hardware or otherwise)? 

Fletcher-Munson were right you know.


----------



## porridgecup

jazz said:


> The frequencies are 31, 62.5, 125, 250, 500, 1000, 2000, 4000, 8000 and 16,000 Hz.
> The Q factor for 1 octave is 1.4142.
> Decibel values for amplitude corrections are those indicated.
> 
> Of course with your APO which appears to be a parametric equalizer you could make more precise corrections, but you were asking for a starting point.


 
 Thank you, I'll give that a try. I'm not musically knowledgable and had to research what an octave was, which is why I did not understand what that curve meant.
  
  


johnjen said:


> Until I started using these settings… within a DSP parametric EQ that is built into Media Center.
> 
> 
> 16Hz
> ...


 
  
 So to clarify, you only added one filter to your parametric EQ, to just boost a part of the bass? Have you modded your HD 800 at all?


----------



## JaZZ

With your parametric equalizer you may want to use a ~6 kHz EQ band to specifically suppress the =863&scale=30]there peak. I wish I had that at my disposal, but together with the damping measures I can get along with my octave equalizer.


----------



## Music Path

Hello,

The hd 800 seems to me made for classic music from what i'm reading.
Dont listen to it usually.
What about electronic/house/rnb/hip hop/trance and other modern genres?
I actually dont like bright HPs. 
Like the sound of the HD650.
Want to compliment them with something.
Looking at plannars which have good bass, like he560 or he500.
Found though some slightly used hd800 for 700 something euro.
Just want the bang for the buck like when i bought the 650 for 200 eur.
I dont own crazy expensive amps.
Own the ifi micro stack with the idsd dac and tube buffer.
Is it worth the hd800 for me? Or should go for the he 560 which i can get around 600 or maybie a bit lower.

Thanks


----------



## johnjen

porridgecup said:


> snip So to clarify, you only added one filter to your parametric EQ, to just boost a part of the bass? Have you modded your HD 800 at all?


 
 Yes, just this one EQ setting.
 And yes my 800's are modded, as is much of my other gear in my system.
  
 JJ


----------



## Taowolf51

jazz said:


> I use the *octave equalizer* in my FiiO X5 (II) which feeds a Chord Hugo as my home setup. My HD 800 is modified, so most of the treble peak (caused by reflections) is eliminated at the source. Nevertheless, equalizing helps to bring the HD 800 to the next level, and these are my settings:
> 
> +5.4      +0.2      –0.8     –0.8      –1.8     –1.8     +0.2      +0.4     –0.8     +3.8        (from 31 Hz to 16 kHz)
> 
> ...


 
  
 Love what I can do with a good software EQ. I usually tweak each time I make a change to my signal, so this one is for a pair of HD800's with Tyll's Anax being driven by a Valhalla 2 in high gain mode.
  
 10,0 Hz  Gain   3,0 dB  Q  1,00             (Correct for bass rolloff)
 50,0 Hz  Gain   4,0 dB  Q  1,00             (Bass boost for flavor)
 6500,0 Hz  Gain   -2,0 dB  Q  5,00         (Cut down that 6K peak a bit)
 15000,0 Hz  Gain   -2,0 dB  Q  1,00       (Tone down the upper treble a smidge)
  
 The upper bass and midrange is flat as a ruler using the perceptual sine sweep, the treble is pretty flat in line with the rest ignoring the up and down treble you get on every headphone, and the subbass is a bit boosted.


----------



## JamesBr

taowolf51 said:


> Love what I can do with a good software EQ. I usually tweak each time I make a change to my signal, so this one is for a pair of HD800's with Tyll's Anax being driven by a Valhalla 2 in high gain mode.
> 
> 10,0 Hz  Gain   3,0 dB  Q  1,00             (Correct for bass rolloff)
> 50,0 Hz  Gain   4,0 dB  Q  1,00             (Bass boost for flavor)
> ...


 
 I am getting used to playing with it, before I didn't want to touch it to much I was spending to much time perfecting it ...


----------



## porridgecup

Any recommendations for a good 4 pin XLR balanced cable? Ideally something which won't emphasize the highs, or will possibly reduce them (though I know that is probably mostly placebo anyway).


----------



## Wildcatsare1

porridgecup said:


> Any recommendations for a good 4 pin XLR balanced cable? Ideally something which won't emphasize the highs, or will possibly reduce them (though I know that is probably mostly placebo anyway).




The Norne Audio Draug 2 is an excellent choice!


----------



## thecrow

music path said:


> Hello,
> 
> The hd 800 seems to me made for classic music from what i'm reading.
> Dont listen to it usually.
> ...


The he560 looks like a great option for you. 

Or the 400i if you want something cheaper. 
I'd say no need to look further if the 560 is at a good price.


----------



## MattTCG

wildcatsare1 said:


> The Norne Audio Draug 2 is an excellent choice!


 
 Yup....


----------



## elvergun

thecrow said:


> The he560 looks like a great option for you.
> 
> Or the 400i if you want something cheaper.
> I'd say no need to look further if the 560 is at a good price.


 
  
 Bad advise.
  
 You are telling the guy to forgo one of the best headphones in the world without giving them a listen first.  
  
 I'd say that the HD800 is a better headphone than the 400i or the 560.   I'd also say that hm22music might prefer the 560, but I would rather err on the side of the Sennheiser.


----------



## thecrow

Oops. I was just working off the brief "I actually dont like bright HPs.
Like the sound of the HD650". 



And yes I prefer the hd800 over the he560 too.


----------



## drez

jazz said:


> I use the *octave equalizer* in my FiiO X5 (II) which feeds a Chord Hugo as my home setup. My HD 800 is modified, so most of the treble peak (caused by reflections) is eliminated at the source. Nevertheless, equalizing helps to bring the HD 800 to the next level, and these are my settings:
> 
> +5.4      +0.2      –0.8     –0.8      –1.8     –1.8     +0.2      +0.4     –0.8     +3.8        (from 31 Hz to 16 kHz)
> 
> ...




It depends how sensitive one is to digital filters. Any dsp will have ringing. At least linear phase has no phase shift, and there are some other excellent algorithms with very little ringing and linear phase iirc. 

Still I would prefer in principle to get rid of the ringing directly than just atennuate with eq but no solution is without compromise.


----------



## Arnotts

jazz said:


> I use the *octave equalizer* in my FiiO X5 (II) which feeds a Chord Hugo as my home setup. My HD 800 is modified, so most of the treble peak (caused by reflections) is eliminated at the source. Nevertheless, equalizing helps to bring the HD 800 to the next level, and these are my settings:
> 
> +5.4      +0.2      –0.8     –0.8      –1.8     –1.8     +0.2      +0.4     –0.8     +3.8        (from 31 Hz to 16 kHz)
> 
> ...


 
 Just used your suggested EQ curve for un-modded HD800's. Using EasyQ, a parametric equalizer for Foobar2000, and using bandwidths of 1.4 octaves. I love the effect it's had. Tames that over-present 6k area very nicely, without suppressing any of the imaging/soundstage capabilities. Very much appreciated, JaZZ .
  
 Currently listening with this setup: Foobar > M-DAC > Valhalla 2 > HD800's
  
 Valhalla 2 provides a better, more organic sound, but the balanced outputs of the M-DAC provide a sound that is almost as good, with a more dry, solid-state sound. A Cavalli Liquid Carbon should arrive  at the end of the month (and maybe one of the upcoming Schiit DACs), and I'll be able to see which setup is the best.


----------



## JaZZ

drez said:


> It depends how sensitive one is to digital filters. Any dsp will have ringing. At least linear phase has no phase shift, and there are some other excellent algorithms with very little ringing and linear phase iirc.
> 
> Still I would prefer in principle to get rid of the ringing directly than just atennuate with eq but no solution is without compromise.


 
  
 I agree with you on the approach to eliminate the cause of resonances and reflections instead of fixing the result. But it's not possible to completely eliminate the HD 800's inner reflections, there's simply not enough room for corresponding damping measures. Fortunately those that are possible have a greater audible effect than the measurings would suggest. But to perfection the sound you can't renounce electrical equalizing, and if done in the digital domain it should have none of the side effects of the hardware counterparts.
  
 Ringing is indeed possible with increased frequency bands, especially narrow bandwidths. But keep in mind that all phase distortions from the equalizer theoretically will compensate for the phase distortions produced by the headphone – since every ripple and dip in the amplitude reponse comes with a corresponding phase distortion, so equalizing them theoretically restores a flat phase response as well. Theoretically – because it's not possible to perfectly and exactly equalize the amplitude response of a sound transducer with all its erratic irregularities. After all the ringing produced by an increased frequency band has a beneficial effect in that it erases the «negative» ringing produced by a corresponding dip if the latter and the compensation curve are perfectly congruent.


----------



## JaZZ

arnotts said:


> Just used your suggested EQ curve for un-modded HD800's. Using EasyQ, a parametric equalizer for Foobar2000, and using bandwidths of 1.4 octaves. I love the effect it's had. Tames that over-present 6k area very nicely, without suppressing any of the imaging/soundstage capabilities. Very much appreciated, JaZZ .
> 
> Currently listening with this setup: Foobar > M-DAC > Valhalla 2 > HD800's
> 
> Valhalla 2 provides a better, more organic sound, but the balanced outputs of the M-DAC provide a sound that is almost as good, with a more dry, solid-state sound. A Cavalli Liquid Carbon should arrive  at the end of the month (and maybe one of the upcoming Schiit DACs), and I'll be able to see which setup is the best.


 
  
 I'm glad it works for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm quite unsure about how much my own perception and compensation curve are transferrable to others' (HRTF and all).


----------



## whirlwind

matttcg said:


> wildcatsare1 said:
> 
> 
> > The Norne Audio Draug 2 is an excellent choice!
> ...


 
 Yup...Yup


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Hey all, absolutely loving the HD800s, had them since Tuesday, came the same day as my repaired and recapped Monarchy M22B, both are burning in nicely. To Matttcg, Rumy408, and several others that have had and loved HD800s and exposed me to them, thank you. I fought the HD800 for the last several years, "oh they cant be that good"....Surprisingly, it was spending a week with the HEK that made me finally get off of my butt and get a pair of HD800s in my system. Still waiting on my Draug 2, know it sounded fantastic on Rumy's.
  
 The Monarchy M22B, Taurus Mk.2, and the 800s, even in stock configuration is a tremendous pairing. Classical (a given), jazz, acoustic rock, and well recorded classic rock are awesome, plenty of bass to support my music. I am guessing that those who complain about the bass are into EDM, Hip Hop, or other stuff I on't listen too.
  
 I want to spend time to learn their sound before I start modding them, well I did remove the dust cover....will start with the balanced Draug, then move forward with the Jazz, et. al. mods.
  
 Would appreciate advice and insight from you old hands with the 800, peace.....


----------



## MattTCG

wildcatsare1 said:


> Hey all, absolutely loving the HD800s, had them since Tuesday, came the same day as my repaired and recapped Monarchy M22B, both are burning in nicely. To Matttcg, Rumy408, and several others that have had and loved HD800s and exposed me to them, thank you. I fought the HD800 for the last several years, "oh they cant be that good"....Surprisingly, it was spending a week with the HEK that made me finally get off of my butt and get a pair of HD800s in my system. Still waiting on my Draug 2, know it sounded fantastic on Rumy's.
> 
> The Monarchy M22B, Taurus Mk.2, and the 800s, even in stock configuration is a tremendous pairing. Classical (a given), jazz, acoustic rock, and well recorded classic rock are awesome, plenty of bass to support my music. I am guessing that those who complain about the bass are into EDM, Hip Hop, or other stuff I on't listen too.
> 
> ...


 
 You don't really need much to make them sing. The Draug 2 cable will likely negate the need for the Anax mod, but you can experiment and see...it's a very inexpensive mod. I like to put 100+ hours on them (hd800) just for peace of mind, but that's just me. And I'm a little nuts as most people here already know. 
  
 The biggest misconception about the hd800 is that they don't do bass well...BS. If you put the right amp to them, the bass will kick like a pissed off mule. The first time I plugged them into the ifi stack with bass boost engaged, I nearly wet myself. The hd800 also responds well to direct current amps like the Questyle and the variants. With direct current, you'll get a much "smoother" presentation and a very musical one.
  
 I also like the hd800 from certain vintage receivers. Ask Oregonian...he will testify. An old tube amp is shockingly good with the 800.
  
 The real question these days for me is how well the hd800 will pair with the LC. And so we wait...


----------



## elvergun

matttcg said:


> You don't really need much to make them sing. The Draug 2 cable will likely negate the need for the Anax mod, but you can experiment and see...it's a very inexpensive mod. I like to put 100+ hours on them (hd800) just for peace of mind, but that's just me. And I'm a little nuts as most people here already know.
> 
> The biggest misconception about the hd800 is that they don't do bass well...BS. If you put the right amp to them, the bass will kick like a pissed off mule. The first time I plugged them into the ifi stack with bass boost engaged, I nearly wet myself. The hd800 also responds well to direct current amps like the Questyle and the variants. With direct current, you'll get a much "smoother" presentation and a very musical one.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I thought you were going to replace the HD800 with the Ether.   Are you not sure yet, or did you decide to keep both?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ As long as the money holds out, I'll have both.


----------



## Oregonian

music path said:


> Hello,
> 
> The hd 800 seems to me made for classic music from what i'm reading.
> Dont listen to it usually.
> ...


 

 Coming from a HE-6 (very modded) that I loved, the HD800 is a genre master to me - and not bright (not that I'm susceptible to brightness anyway) and to me they are the best sounding headphone I've owned (with around 50 either owned or auditioned of all price levels).  I definitely feel they are superior to the HE560 and HE400i as well.


----------



## Oregonian

matttcg said:


> You don't really need much to make them sing. The Draug 2 cable will likely negate the need for the Anax mod, but you can experiment and see...it's a very inexpensive mod. I like to put 100+ hours on them (hd800) just for peace of mind, but that's just me. And I'm a little nuts as most people here already know.
> 
> *The biggest misconception about the hd800 is that they don't do bass well...BS.* If you put the right amp to them, the bass will kick like a pissed off mule. The first time I plugged them into the ifi stack with bass boost engaged, I nearly wet myself. The hd800 also responds well to direct current amps like the Questyle and the variants. With direct current, you'll get a much "smoother" presentation and a very musical one.
> 
> ...


 
 Agree 100% about the bass.  Incredibly impressive and after thinking it might be bass light from my readings over the years it proved false.  Sooooooooo glad I got a pair for myself to hear.
  
 Out of my vintage amps (and that's all I use) they are very impressive.  Thought the HE-6 out of speaker taps was the end all, be all.  Till I got these.


----------



## koiloco

oregonian said:


> Agree 100% about the bass.  Incredibly impressive and after thinking it might be bass light from my readings over the years it proved false.  Sooooooooo glad I got a pair for myself to hear.
> 
> Out of my vintage amps (and that's all I use) they are very impressive.  Thought the HE-6 out of speaker taps was the end all, be all.  Till I got these.


 
  
 Glad to have you aboard!  I resisted the HD800 for a long time too.  Fortunately, I have a nice friend who let me borrow his for a few weeks.  After those weeks, I was a believer.
 Between HE6 driven by a speaker amp and HD800 + WA22 combo, I think I have reached "end game"... for now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Btw, I am hunting for a good sx-950/1050 locally but no luck yet.


----------



## elvergun

koiloco said:


> Glad to have you aboard!  I resisted the HD800 for a long time too.  Fortunately, I have a nice friend who let me borrow his for a few weeks.  After those weeks, I was a believer.
> Between HE6 driven by a speaker amp and HD800 + WA22 combo, I think I have reached "end game"... *for now *
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The only headphone that I've heard that is better than the HD800 + WA22 combo is the SR009.    Obviously, I have not heard everything out there (HD800 + Cavalli...the HE1000...the Abyss...yet).
  
  
 Congrats!!!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

oregonian said:


> Agree 100% about the bass.  Incredibly impressive and after thinking it might be bass light from my readings over the years it proved false.  Sooooooooo glad I got a pair for myself to hear.
> 
> Out of my vintage amps (and that's all I use) they are very impressive.  Thought the HE-6 out of speaker taps was the end all, be all.  Till I got these.


 
 Yeah, I really resisted the HD800, believed all of the negativity, soooo happy I finally caved and am hearing it in my home setup. The bass is fantastic, tight, accurate and tuneful. I cannot wait until I get the Draug 2 and have the chance to listen to it from the balanced outs. I felt the HE1000, though extremely good from the SE, was even better from the XLR.
  
 My 560s will probably end up on the F/S Thread as well, I do love them, but the HD800 is much better.


----------



## rawrster

Bunch of fools if you ask me


----------



## Wildcatsare1

rawrster said:


> Bunch of fools if you ask me




LOL, especially since we are on a pretty similar path......How is your HD800 working for Mr. Rawster?


----------



## rawrster

I got no complaints with the hd800. It's been my biggest regret until I bought it again. This time around I'm not going to be tempted to finance a star setup with it. My weak link is probably my dac but it is still a very good dac should be set for a long time. 

I got all 3 components at a good price and imo to get a worthwhile improvement I'll have to spend a lot more than I'm willing to.


----------



## Oregonian

koiloco said:


> Glad to have you aboard!  I resisted the HD800 for a long time too.  Fortunately, I have a nice friend who let me borrow his for a few weeks.  After those weeks, I was a believer.
> Between HE6 driven by a speaker amp and HD800 + WA22 combo, I think I have reached "end game"... for now
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good for you.  Worth it when you find it................


----------



## whirlwind

wildcatsare1 said:


> oregonian said:
> 
> 
> > Agree 100% about the bass.  Incredibly impressive and after thinking it might be bass light from my readings over the years it proved false.  Sooooooooo glad I got a pair for myself to hear.
> ...


 
 Even though it is early on, it sounds like you are digging the HD800 so far.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

whirlwind said:


> Even though it is early on, it sounds like you are digging the HD800 so far.


 
 Whirlwind, I am loving them, glad I finally succumbed to the Senny Siren 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I can't believe I thought they were equals with the PS1000s, while the PS1k is an excellent HP, they aren't equals. With the stock cable, still needing break in, while burning in the new caps on the Monarchy, the 800s are exceptional (OK, I am stubborn, if anything).
  
 Quick example, I never really understood the need for a phase inverting switch. With the HD800 and the monarchy it's a very clear difference, almost every disc offering a significantly setting.


----------



## whirlwind

wildcatsare1 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Even though it is early on, it sounds like you are digging the HD800 so far.
> ...


 
 Great to hear, glad you are enjoying them.
  
 Should be a pretty special sound with the Taurus.


----------



## Rayzilla

wildcatsare1 said:


> Whirlwind, I am loving them, glad I finally succumbed to the Senny Siren
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Glad to hear that you are really loving your 800s. After trying many other headphones since buying my HD 800, I still haven't come across a better headphone (to me). I tried the HE1000 and it just seemed to be missing a lot of the good things that I love about the HD 800.
  
 I am now thinking about trying STAX but I KNOW that I am never going to make the mistake of selling my HD 800 in the process. They will be with me to the end, if not for being the best (years or decades from now)... for sentimental reasons.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

rayzilla said:


> Glad to hear that you are really loving your 800s. After trying many other headphones since buying my HD 800, I still haven't come across a better headphone (to me). I tried the HE1000 and it just seemed to be missing a lot of the good things that I love about the HD 800.
> 
> I am now thinking about trying STAX but I KNOW that I am never going to make the mistake of selling my HD 800 in the process. They will be with me to the end, if not for being the best (years or decades from now)... for sentimental reasons.




Thanks, I really hate that I will be missing the Nashville Meet, I was dying to hear them on your Teton! Plus missing your and Preporman's tube vs. SS (would have liked to put my Taurus in the mix) shootout, it's really going to be a fantastic event.

I liked the HE1000, just couldn't justify the added expense versus the HD800s, very happy I went with the Sennies.


----------



## Moonhead

Rayzilla..

Just remember that Stax are very delicate and only have 1year warranty and that can be stressful with such expensive gear. 
Other than that, they are really great and offcoss quite different from HD800, but not a lot better.. Only with vocals, IMHO.

Use to own 009 and 007mkI.


----------



## preproman

wildcatsare1 said:


> Thanks, I really hate that I will be missing the Nashville Meet, I was dying to hear them on your Teton! Plus missing your and Preporman's tube vs. SS (would have liked to put my Taurus in the mix) shootout, it's really going to be a fantastic event.
> 
> I liked the HE1000, just couldn't justify the added expense versus the HD800s, very happy I went with the Sennies.


 

 Rayzilla = no Tenton while jibzilla = Tenton  lol...


----------



## MattTCG

preproman said:


> Rayzilla = no Tenton while jibzilla = Tenton  lol...


 
  
 In other news...
  
 preporman does not equal preproman.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

matttcg said:


> In other news...
> 
> preporman does not equal preproman.




I'll just call you Ray......


----------



## kimvictor

My HD800 cable ripped(after the y split, on the left side). What do you think about ADL cables for HD800? The iHP-35Hx? That's the only one I can get locally without getting it custom made(and also one of the cheapest).


----------



## rogerthatmand

Can I get please recommendations for and amp to pair with my HD800? (Anything but Bottlehead)
 My budget is 500$


----------



## Rumiho

rogerthatmand said:


> Can I get please recommendations for and amp to pair with my HD800? (Anything but Bottlehead)
> My budget is 500$


 
  
 The Valhalla 2 at $349 pairs excellently with the HD 800's if you don't mind the tubes. http://schiit.com/products/valhalla-2


----------



## koiloco

moonhead said:


> Rayzilla..
> 
> Just remember that Stax are very delicate and only have 1year warranty and that can be stressful with such expensive gear.
> Other than that, they are really great and offcoss *quite different from HD800, but not a lot better.. Only with vocals, IMHO.*
> ...


 
 I listened to 009 + Blue Hawaii and agree with your assessment.  At 3 x the $, I personally can't justify.


----------



## longbowbbs

koiloco said:


> moonhead said:
> 
> 
> > Rayzilla..
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## rogerthatmand

rumiho said:


> The Valhalla 2 at $349 pairs excellently with the HD 800's if you don't mind the tubes. http://schiit.com/products/valhalla-2


 
 Thank you.
  
 Any other recommendations please?


----------



## Moonhead

This...

http://www.thomann.de/gb/superlux_ha3d.htm


----------



## bearFNF

rogerthatmand said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Any other recommendations please?


For a real inexpensive option you could try the Vali...


----------



## rogerthatmand

bearfnf said:


> For a real inexpensive option you could try the Vali...


 
 Well, I already have the O2 amp, so I'm looking for an upgrade.
 I thought tube amp will make a huge difference..


----------



## longbowbbs

rogerthatmand said:


> bearfnf said:
> 
> 
> > For a real inexpensive option you could try the Vali...
> ...


 
 I love my Studio Six....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Kidding.. Clearly out of budget. 
  
 If you could find a used Decware CSP2+ that would be a nice upgrade, low cost tubes and super sweet pairing with the HD800's!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

rogerthatmand said:


> Well, I already have the O2 amp, so I'm looking for an upgrade.
> I thought tube amp will make a huge difference..


 
 You could try this:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/feliks-audio-elise/reviews/13718
  
 Haven't heard it yet, but it looks promising.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

rogerthatmand said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Any other recommendations please?


 

  

  

  
 2 of the above photos show an HD800 driven by a portable rig that -- as those who have auditioned it can attest to -- sounds better than a either Vali or Mjolnir driven.

 FYI I had the Mjolnir for 6 months.  Now sold.


----------



## MickeyVee

I'm pretty happy with my ADL cable.  Although there are probably better out there, I'm not planning on changing it for a while.

  
  
  
 Quote:


kimvictor said:


> My HD800 cable ripped(after the y split, on the left side). What do you think about ADL cables for HD800? The iHP-35Hx? That's the only one I can get locally without getting it custom made(and also one of the cheapest).


----------



## inseconds99

Can anyone recommend a 4-5 foot very thin, flexible and soft HD800 cable? I do not like thick, tangle free or hard/stiff cables and I currently cannot stand the length and the stiffness of the stock cable. I am not looking for a cable to change the sound or am chasing better sound. I just want a cable that keeps at least stock cable sound (wouldn't mind a more warm/bass heavy signature either but it doesn't matter either way) but is 4-5 feet in length, *VERY THIN**, flexible and soft* as heavy, stiff and thick cables drive me nuts. 
  
 I was looking at potentially purchasing a custom cable from mimic or bestinverse or possible a ebay cable. Can anyone make a recommendation based on what I am looking for?


----------



## kimvictor

mickeyvee said:


> I'm pretty happy with my ADL cable.  Although there are probably better out there, I'm not planning on changing it for a while.


 
 ooh that looks amazing. Is it built though? I don't care too much about improving SQ. I need good build quality. Thanks!


----------



## MickeyVee

Build quality is amazing. Rhodium connectors and plug. A little stiff for my liking but less stiff than the stock cable.  Actual cable is also very nice and tough. For the money, it is an outstanding cable. The SQ is better than stock.  Seems smoother to me with a touch more bass.
 Quote:


kimvictor said:


> ooh that looks amazing. Is it built though? I don't care too much about improving SQ. I need good build quality. Thanks!


----------



## kimvictor

mickeyvee said:


>


 
 What's for money? I'm paying about $280(USD) for the cable. Is that good? I know that it might be cheaper in Japan, but that's the price in Korea. Would you buy it for this price?


----------



## MickeyVee

List price in Canada is $340 but I did better than that. For me, with the Canadian $ exchange, it's not worth getting anything in $US so it's a bargain here 
 Quote:


kimvictor said:


>


----------



## kimvictor

mickeyvee said:


>


 
 Hmm I'm visiting a shop for an audition today. I'll report back if I do get it! It does look astonishing though.


----------



## longbowbbs

mickeyvee said:


> I'm pretty happy with my ADL cable.  Although there are probably better out there, I'm not planning on changing it for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Love the look of the Mac MV....Nice!


----------



## bearFNF

inseconds99 said:


> Can anyone recommend a 4-5 foot very thin, flexible and soft HD800 cable? I do not like thick, tangle free or hard/stiff cables and I currently cannot stand the length and the stiffness of the stock cable. I am not looking for a cable to change the sound or am chasing better sound. I just want a cable that keeps at least stock cable sound (wouldn't mind a more warm/bass heavy signature either but it doesn't matter either way) but is 4-5 feet in length, *VERY THIN**, flexible and soft* as heavy, stiff and thick cables drive me nuts.
> 
> I was looking at potentially purchasing a custom cable from mimic or bestinverse or possible a ebay cable. Can anyone make a recommendation based on what I am looking for?


 

 My "Q" French silk is very light and flexible, think lightly braided para cord. Only thing you have to deal with is the adapters for the HD800.


----------



## inseconds99

bearfnf said:


> My "Q" French silk is very light and flexible, think lightly braided para cord. Only thing you have to deal with is the adapters for the HD800.




Thank you for the response, i would not be a fan of those big connectors. Cable looks similar to the mimic, bestinverse and eBay cables I have looked at. I am hoping someone can lead me to a nice cable that meets all my requirements.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

@inseconds99 I have the following Sennheiser HD800 cable.  It is thin and comes in lengths varying from about 3 to 5 feet.  It is a bit stiff, but it sounds great.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Silver-Plated-Audio-upgrade-Cable-For-Sennheiser-HD800-HD-800-headphones-/201307381524?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item2ededadf14


----------



## kimvictor

inseconds99 said:


> Thank you for the response, i would not be a fan of those big connectors. Cable looks similar to the mimic, bestinverse and eBay cables I have looked at. I am hoping someone can lead me to a nice cable that meets all my requirements.


 
 Brian at BTG audio might be able to make you a thin and supple cable for HD800. It's pretty cheap, and you can custom order, so you can have a cable that meets all your requirements.


----------



## inseconds99

kimvictor said:


> Brian at BTG audio might be able to make you a thin and supple cable for HD800. It's pretty cheap, and you can custom order, so you can have a cable that meets all your requirements.



 That's sounds excellent, would you mind linking me the website or getting me in contact with the person directly?



ruthieandjohn said:


> @inseconds99
> I have the following Sennheiser HD800 cable.  It is thin and comes in lengths varying from about 3 to 5 feet.  It is a bit stiff, but it sounds great.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Silver-Plated-Audio-upgrade-Cable-For-Sennheiser-HD800-HD-800-headphones-/201307381524?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item2ededadf14




I have already looked into this cable, many people complain that it is stiff and annoying. That is what is holding me back, I cannot get myself to purchase a cable that stiff.


----------



## kimvictor

inseconds99 said:


> That's sounds excellent, would you mind linking me the website or getting me in contact with the person directly?
> I have already looked into this cable, many people complain that it is stiff and annoying. That is what is holding me back, I cannot get myself to purchase a cable that stiff.


 
 http://www.btg-audio.com/


----------



## kimvictor

kimvictor said:


> http://www.btg-audio.com/


 
 They do have excellent quality and price. Their IEM cables are very popular, and you should be able to get a supple cable if you don't sleeve it.


----------



## mikoss

Does anyone have a supple, thick and stiff cable to recommend for me? I'm just looking to get some extra enjoyment from my HD-800's, and the stock one seems to be leaving something to be desired. It doesn't need to have a sheath either.


----------



## kimvictor

mikoss said:


> Does anyone have a supple, thick and stiff cable to recommend for me? I'm just looking to get some extra enjoyment from my HD-800's, and the stock one seems to be leaving something to be desired. It doesn't need to have a sheath either.


 
 Hah supple and stiff are contradictory...
  
 But I'm trying the ihp-35Hx. I'll report back after I demo it at a store.


----------



## mikoss

kimvictor said:


> Hah supple and stiff are contradictory...
> 
> But I'm trying the ihp-35Hx. I'll report back after I demo it at a store.


 
 Cool. A nice long, black one like that would probably work.


----------



## rawrster

kimvictor said:


> They do have excellent quality and price. Their IEM cables are very popular, and you should be able to get a supple cable if you don't sleeve it.




I believe they were having some serious backlog issues a while back. I'm not sure how it is now. It's something to consider if it's a cable that's needed asap


----------



## inseconds99

rawrster said:


> I believe they were having some serious backlog issues a while back. I'm not sure how it is now. It's something to consider if it's a cable that's needed asap


 
 It is a cable that I kind of want ASAP, I don't know where else to turn of the specifications I am looking for.


----------



## rawrster

Most of the aftermarket cable retailers tend to have a lot of orders so they have a backlog. Of course you should ask what BTG's backlog is since I do not know what it is. As an alternative I do recommend charleston cable company (http://www.c3audio.com) and they also made my HD800 cable. It's not cheap and a good amount more than the prices at BTG. The turnaround time was around a week and I'm pretty happy with mine.


----------



## Moonhead

Forza Audio works are fast, cheap and of very Good quality. 

http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/category.php?id_category=36


----------



## Oregonian

inseconds99 said:


> Can anyone recommend a 4-5 foot very thin, flexible and soft HD800 cable? I do not like thick, tangle free or hard/stiff cables and I currently cannot stand the length and the stiffness of the stock cable. I am not looking for a cable to change the sound or am chasing better sound. I just want a cable that keeps at least stock cable sound (wouldn't mind a more warm/bass heavy signature either but it doesn't matter either way) but is 4-5 feet in length, *VERY THIN**, flexible and soft* as heavy, stiff and thick cables drive me nuts.
> 
> I was looking at potentially purchasing a custom cable from mimic or bestinverse or possible a ebay cable. Can anyone make a recommendation based on what I am looking for?


 

 I just bought from a member a Norne Audio Vanquish 5' cable that is similar in appearance and flexibility to the Q French Silk cable I have on my LA7000.  Very light and flexible.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Are there any protypes of the EC Blackwidow Amp making the rounds at shows/meets? 

Am interested in reading impressions on how it matches up with the HD800.


----------



## TokenGesture

So now I know what people mean when they talk about the HD800 as almost too revealing.
  
 The new Nelsons/Boston Symphony Shostakovich 10 record is almost unlistenable with these - because of how resolved and present the audience noise captured in the live recording is.  So distracting.  And quite different to the experience with say the LCDX.
  
 Hmmm


----------



## Ali-Pacha

HD800 is the best way to turn off the Dolby noise reduction on your recordings 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Ali


----------



## yellowblue

2 years ago I sold my HD800. Today I bought a used pair here in Sweden. You have to part sometimes to see how much you miss a thing.
 At this time I had a Auralic Vega DAC and a Master 9 and Silver Poison cables. All the untamed energy from the Sabre DAC was thrown into the amp and into the cans via silver cables. That was simply to much and really fatiguing. Instead of selling the DAC I bought a LCD-X then and was quiet happy for a short while.
  
 Now I have a Totaldac DAC/Server - better cabling (just searching for a good balanced cable, maybe Norne or DHC - somebody who will sell? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and things sound just right through the Master 9 which opens upp the HD800 quiet a bit for the sweetness of the Dac. I feel that the HD800 now will get more listening time than my LCD-3F.
  
 What I want to say is that there are so many discussions about the right amp for the HD800. But for me was the key to get the right source - DAC. I feel that R2R-DACs suit very well with the HD800. 
  
 I really thought I should buy one of the really hyped Ethers or Odins (even if Kennerton Odin just is hyped in France
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) when I realized that they maybe sound better than the HD800 _with cheaper amps_ because they are less power hungry and more forgiving (?). Maybe the HD800 has a bigger potential though with better sources - this is what I suppose. There are still unique characteristics (airiness, detail, soundstage) that make the HD800 hard to beat.
  
 For me it took 2 years to realize that and I had to invest much money to come to a point there everything (OK...nearly everything - I have to accept a little sibillance with some music) sounds right and involving with the HD800. I regret that I sold it. I should have chosen another strategy. But it is never to late...


----------



## kimvictor

yellowblue said:


> 2 years ago I sold my HD800. Today I bought a used pair here in Sweden. You have to part sometimes to see how much you miss a thing.
> At this time I had a Auralic Vega DAC and a Master 9 and Silver Poison cables. All the untamed energy from the Sabre DAC was thrown into the amp and into the cans via silver cables. That was simply to much and really fatiguing. Instead of selling the DAC I bought a LCD-X then and was quiet happy for a short while.
> 
> Now I have a Totaldac DAC/Server - better cabling (just searching for a good balanced cable, maybe Norne or DHC - somebody who will sell?
> ...


 
 HD800 is indeed freakin amazing. Everyone that measured a pair will know that HD800 is indeed endgame. They also sounds absolutely brilliant.


----------



## whirlwind

Yeah....listening to Pink Floyd thru these is a life changing experience


----------



## kimvictor

whirlwind said:


> Yeah....listening to Pink Floyd thru these is a life changing experience


 
 Wow just what I'm doing rn. It's a whole new experience.


----------



## whirlwind

kimvictor said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah....listening to Pink Floyd thru these is a life changing experience
> ...


 
 I know, right.


----------



## Rumiho

So it would seem the HD 800's are rather well built. Just had a cat sprint through my room, knock them off the desk, they then bounce on the carpet, and I pick them up to see that they survived without any visible damage. Hopefully one time was all they will have to take but its nice that they are not extremely fragile.


----------



## Taowolf51

rumiho said:


> So it would seem the HD 800's are rather well built. Just had a cat sprint through my room, knock them off the desk, they then bounce on the carpet, and I pick them up to see that they survived without any visible damage. Hopefully one time was all they will have to take but its nice that they are not extremely fragile.


 
  
 With the exception of the paint, the HD800's are very durable headphones.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

The thing I love about the 800s, besides the SQ, is how incredibly comfortable they are. After wearing them my 560s feel cramped and hot.


----------



## RUMAY408

wildcatsare1 said:


> The thing I love about the 800s, besides the SQ, is how incredibly comfortable they are. After wearing them my 560s feel cramped and hot.


 

 The comfort is a real positive.
  
 At the last Nashville meet I was floored by the Rag/WA5 combo.
  
 If anyone doubts the HD800 bass, try that combo out.


----------



## bearFNF

rumay408 said:


> The comfort is a real positive.
> 
> At the last Nashville meet I was floored by the Rag/WA5 combo.
> 
> If anyone doubts the HD800 bass, try that combo out.


how exactly were the Rag and wa5 made into a combo???


----------



## RUMAY408

bearfnf said:


> how exactly were the Rag and wa5 made into a combo???


 

 My bad Yggdrasil>WA5


----------



## bearFNF

rumay408 said:


> My bad Yggdrasil>WA5


That's what I thought you might have meant.


----------



## atsq17

I am super sensitive to sibilance and I used to hate the HD800 for that when I tried it on other people's setups. 
  
 I now use the HD800 with a Norne Solv X cable running balanced to LH Labs Pulse XFi (SPDIF via Audiophilleo 1 and Lightspeed 2G USB cable) with LPS and using Foobar and WASAPI.
  
 ZERO sibilance. Everything is super smooth and detailed. Bass hits are strong. Sub bass is present. I have no idea if the serial number thing is for real but this is one in the 3XXXX range. 
  
 I've been converted. I am now looking to sell the rest of my setup to see if a HE1000 is better.


----------



## jsgraha

atsq17 said:


> I am super sensitive to sibilance and I used to hate the HD800 for that when I tried it on other people's setups.
> 
> I now use the HD800 with a Norne Solv X cable running balanced to LH Labs Pulse XFi (SPDIF via Audiophilleo 1 and Lightspeed 2G USB cable) with LPS and using Foobar and WASAPI.
> 
> ...




Congrats!
And he1000 will be a great complimentary headphone to hd800


----------



## kimvictor

Hmm got the ADL iHP 35Hx cable, the 1.3m version. It's long enough for desk use, but it doesn't give you much room to move around. It's actually perfect length for my desk. It's built really well, looks absolutely stunning, and it's sound sig is perhaps slightly warm. I don't believe cables make a big change, but it does make minor changes. In this case, the change was a slightly warmer sound, which I absolutely love.


----------



## whirlwind

wildcatsare1 said:


> The thing I love about the 800s, besides the SQ, is how incredibly comfortable they are. After wearing them my 560s feel cramped and hot.


 
 I could not agree more, I can wear these for hours and has absolutely no issues...no hot ears...no neck pain, no ear pain....the ear pads and headband are wonderful


----------



## HiFiChris

I agree, they're extremely comfy and "disappear" after just a few minutes. Though, I wouldn't mind a bit more clamping pressure.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

hifichris said:


> I agree, they're extremely comfy and "disappear" after just a few minutes. Though, I wouldn't mind a bit more clamping pressure.




Wonder if the engineers, after the HD650 "death grip", relaxed it just a tad to much? Mine are really burning in nicely sound fantastic on my SS amp, and if I want a little more mellow sound I hook up the Little Dot Mk. 3.


----------



## bearFNF

wildcatsare1 said:


> Wonder if the engineers, after the HD650 "death grip", relaxed it just a tad to much? Mine are really burning in nicely sound fantastic on my SS amp, and if I want a little more mellow sound I hook up the Little Dot Mk. 3.


I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought the HD650s were tight.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

bearFNF you have an incredible headphone collection! I recently added a Monarch M22B R2R DAC. It arrived the same day from getting a new transformer and being recapped as my new HD800s. Guess I could have introduced one new item at a time, but my patience failed and I really wanted to get moving on burning both in.

How does the Yggy compare to your Uber Bifrost, which of you headphones gets the most head time?


----------



## bearFNF

wildcatsare1 said:


> bearFNF you have an incredible headphone collection! I recently added a Monarch M22B R2R DAC. It arrived the same day from getting a new transformer and being recapped as my new HD800s. Guess I could have introduced one new item at a time, but my patience failed and I really wanted to get moving on burning both in.
> 
> How does the Yggy compare to your Uber Bifrost, which of you headphones gets the most head time?


Thanks,it has grown mostly due to headfi  at least that is my story. ..

The Yggdrasil is more detailed and sounds more Natural?? realistic?? than the uberfrost. But it is also more versatile (balanced, more connections,etc.) so it fits very well in my system. 

Right now the SR009 get the most time,followed by the PS500 (I spend a lot of time working on the computer which is where the PS500 are), and then the HD800's. At work I listen to the iGrado. The rest are all in their boxes waiting for me to stop procrastinating and sell them.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

bearfnf said:


> Thanks,it has grown mostly due to headfi  at least that is my story. ..
> 
> The Yggdrasil is more detailed and sounds more Natural?? realistic?? than the uberfrost. But it is also more versatile (balanced, more connections,etc.) so it fits very well in my system.
> 
> Right now the SR009 get the most time,followed by the PS500 (I spend a lot of time working on the computer which is where the PS500 are), and then the HD800's. At work I listen to the iGrado. The rest are all in their boxes waiting for me to stop procrastinating and sell them.




Just traded my PS500e and 1000s (+$) for the 800s, they were new in box and unregistered, so I was able to register them as new. The Seller received them as a gift and already had a pair. 

Loved the HEK when I had them, probably my next purchase, just having a tough time justifying the price.


----------



## bearFNF

wildcatsare1 said:


> Just traded my PS500e and 1000s (+$) for the 800s, they were new in box and unregistered, so I was able to register them as new. The Seller received them as a gift and already had a pair.
> 
> Loved the HEK when I had them, probably my next purchase, just having a tough time justifying the price.



Yeah,the Abyss and HE1K are way over priced. I did not care for either of them. HD800's are the better bang for your buck. Only phones I thought were worth more are the SR009, but even they are overpriced unless you buy from PJ (I didn't thouh, I bought mine from Headamp, BHSE is on the way...??  ).


----------



## Wildcatsare1

bearfnf said:


> Yeah,the Abyss and HE1K are way over priced. I did not care for either of them. HD800's are the better bang for your buck. Only phones I thought were worth more are the SR009, but even they are overpriced unless you buy from PJ (I didn't thouh, I bought mine from Headamp, BHSE is on the way...??  ).




Hopefully your BHSE gets there before the snow flies. Used to do an outing for customers at Madden's Resort for Labor Day Weekend, frost was already on the ground (delayed our tee times).


----------



## Moonhead

Normally not my genre, but god damnit Prodigy - The Fat of the Land is crazy with the HD800. 
  
 Nusrat Ali Khan is also worth a try if you like eastern music.


----------



## longbowbbs

Here is the current HD800 rig. The Studio Six is an incredible amp with every headphone I have used with it. It is the single best amp I have ever used with my HD800's. Great job @KB and the ALO Audio team!
  

 MacBook Pro with Amarra 3.03. Light Harmonic Lightspeed 10G USB cable. VPI Scout 1.1
 with Dynavector 10X5. Stillpoints LPI Long Spindle. HD800's with Toxic Cables Silver Widow SW22 & SW25's.
  
 Studio Six with RCA VT231 Grey Glass, Bendix Jan Cea 5992 (2), Sylvania OB2 (2) & USAF-596 with 2359Glenn adapter  and Stillpoints Ultra SS footers. Power via Green Line power cable.
  
 ALO Audio Phono Stage with Electro Harmonix 6SN7 & Electro Harmonix 12AX7 (2)
  
 Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 DSDse with Femto Clock upgrade


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^^THIS^^ Absolutely beautiful set up, longbowbbs


----------



## punit

longbowbbs said:


> Here is the current HD800 rig. The Studio Six is an incredible amp with every headphone I have used with it. I*t is the single best amp I have ever used with my HD800's. *Great job @KB and the ALO Audio team!


 
 Would be grateful if you could mention which are the other amps that you tried with HD 800 ?


----------



## longbowbbs

punit said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Here is the current HD800 rig. The Studio Six is an incredible amp with every headphone I have used with it. I*t is the single best amp I have ever used with my HD800's. *Great job @KB and the ALO Audio team!
> ...


 
 Punit, it is a long list.
  
 Some of the recent contenders are:
  
 Amps I own or have owned at some time:
 Moon Neo 430HA (It is still my SS reference)
 Cary SLI-80 Ultimate
 Decware CSP2+
 Decware Taboo MK III
 LH Labs Pulse Infinity
 ifi Micro iDSD
  
 Amps I have recently reviewed or borrowed for extended periods:
 Cavalli Liquid Crimson
 Aurender Flow
 Heed Canalot with Q-PSU Power Supply
 Meier Audio Corda Classic


----------



## longbowbbs

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^^THIS^^ Absolutely beautiful set up, @longbowbbs


 
 Thanks Wildcatsare1! It is fun to come home after work with this rig.


----------



## nephilim32

longbowbbs said:


> Here is the current HD800 rig. The Studio Six is an incredible amp with every headphone I have used with it. It is the single best amp I have ever used with my HD800's. Great job @KB and the ALO Audio team!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Everything down to the spindle looks amazing!! That studio six tube amp is quite a nice pairing I hear with the 800's. Compensates for the 800's very detailed treble by infusing a bit more warmth rather than bite. Anyway, this is a beautiful rig and for the record, ALO cables are simply fantastic. I have one myself. It's all about taking pride in your rig. You've done it. Great phono setup. 
One question, how much do those tubes set you back and what's their longevity? 

Cheers.


----------



## longbowbbs

nephilim32 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Here is the current HD800 rig. The Studio Six is an incredible amp with every headphone I have used with it. It is the single best amp I have ever used with my HD800's. Great job @KB and the ALO Audio team!
> ...


 
 The RCA VT-231 was a gift from another Head-Fier (Thanks again dminches!) The Bendix can be had for $100-$150 depending on vendor. The OB2's are stock and replacements are generally under $20 each. The USAF-596 was cheap a couple of years ago, but seems to have gotten popular enough to where it is running +$100 when you can find one. This one was another gift (Thanks ClaytonSF!) Then you need to 5U4G adapter as well for another $30 or so.


----------



## nephilim32

longbowbbs said:


> The RCA VT-231 was a gift from another Head-Fier (Thanks again dminches!) The Bendix can be had for $100-$150 depending on vendor. The OB2's are stock and replacements are generally under $20 each. The USAF-596 was cheap a couple of years ago, but seems to have gotten popular enough to where it is running +$100 when you can find one. This one was another gift (Thanks ClaytonSF!) Then you need to 5U4G adapter as well for another $30 or so.




That's not bad price wise, also tube rolling can be a lot of fun. I'm sure you've tried many tubes and for that price it's worth experimenting. I like what you have, but I do prefer solid state amps like say a Burson soloist. 
Anyway, give Pink Floyd's The final cut a spin sometime on your beautiful rig. The use of holophonics for the vocals will sound so beautiful through those HD 8's. 

Happy listening and thanks for the pics.


----------



## longbowbbs

nephilim32 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > The RCA VT-231 was a gift from another Head-Fier (Thanks again dminches!) The Bendix can be had for $100-$150 depending on vendor. The OB2's are stock and replacements are generally under $20 each. The USAF-596 was cheap a couple of years ago, but seems to have gotten popular enough to where it is running +$100 when you can find one. This one was another gift (Thanks ClaytonSF!) Then you need to 5U4G adapter as well for another $30 or so.
> ...


 
 Great suggestion. Pink Floyd it is!


----------



## nephilim32

longbowbbs said:


> Great suggestion. Pink Floyd it is!




Ok. It's not the happiest album I assure you, but sonically I think you'll really appreciate for how the album is recorded. You've got great gear, so you'll be able to exploit all the wonderful and unique characteristics The Final Cut has to offer. You'll love the dynamic range! Some of the best I've heard on a single recording. 

Enjoy my friend.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

moonhead said:


> Normally not my genre, but god damnit Prodigy - The Fat of the Land is crazy with the HD800.
> 
> Nusrat Ali Khan is also worth a try if you like eastern music.




Damn, Prodigy sounds fantastic on the HD800s! I am not a rap fan, a vey suburban old fart, hopefully it's not a death blow to Prodigy that someone as completely unhip as me enjoys their music, thanks Moonhead


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, guys. Current recommendations on a copper cable for the hd800 is what I seek. I put a strong emphasis on the flexibility of the cable. 
  
 I've owned the Norne Draug 2 and think it sounds fantastic, and although I might go back with it I was hoping for a little better flexibility while retaining most of the sonic benefits of the Draug 2.
  
 Suggestions?


----------



## yellowblue

Someone who can recommend the Cardas clear cable?


----------



## yates7592

For HD800 Cardas Clear is a step up from the stock cable but I think you can do better.


----------



## yellowblue

Have you compared the Cardas clear with other cables?


----------



## yates7592

No, which is why I said "think". I ran the CC when I had my hd800 and was never very impressed. It was "fine", nothing more. I'm just saying there are probably better options out there voiced to HD800. If I was still running these cans today I would give Draug 2 a serious audition.


----------



## Oregonian

matttcg said:


> Okay, guys. Current recommendations on a copper cable for the hd800 is what I seek. I put a strong emphasis on the flexibility of the cable.
> 
> I've owned the Norne Draug 2 and think it sounds fantastic, and although I might go back with it I was hoping for a little better flexibility while retaining most of the sonic benefits of the Draug 2.
> 
> Suggestions?


 

 I got a Norne Audio Vanquish (sorry but not 100% sure what the composition is) but it is reminiscent of my Q French Silk cable I have on my LA7000's - very soft and flexible.  Highly recommended.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

matttcg said:


> Okay, guys. Current recommendations on a copper cable for the hd800 is what I seek. I put a strong emphasis on the flexibility of the cable.
> 
> I've owned the Norne Draug 2 and think it sounds fantastic, and although I might go back with it I was hoping for a little better flexibility while retaining most of the sonic benefits of the Draug 2.
> 
> Suggestions?




That would be the Norne Zoetic Matt.


----------



## MattTCG

oregonian said:


> I got a Norne Audio Vanquish (sorry but not 100% sure what the composition is) but it is reminiscent of my Q French Silk cable I have on my LA7000's - very soft and flexible.  Highly recommended.


 
  
  


wildcatsare1 said:


> That would be the Norne Zoetic Matt.


 
 Thank you sirs!!


----------



## icebear

oregonian said:


> I got a* Norne Audio Vanquish* (sorry but not 100% sure what the composition is) but it is reminiscent of my Q French Silk cable I have on my LA7000's - very soft and flexible.  Highly recommended.


 
 +1 for this one. I have it for my HD800, dual 3-pin XLR, Neutrik. Sounds great to me, one of the best values out there and very comfortable. I have quite a long one 14ft, so I have to somehow coil it a little when I put my headphone back on the rack and just guiding it a little it's no problem to have it lying in front of the rack.


----------



## YoengJyh

Any celebration if HD800 serial reachs 50k? or 100k?


----------



## MattTCG

Already hit 41k with my latest pair.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Hey Gents, for those interested in vintage or current R2R DACs I started a new thread. My Monarchy M22B and Taurus Mk. 2 are absolutely incredible with my HD800s!
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/777597/vintage-current-r2r-dac-owners-discussion-insight-and-review-thread


----------



## rawrster

wildcatsare1 said:


> Hey Gents, for those interested in vintage or current R2R DACs I started a new thread. My Monarchy M22B and Taurus Mk. 2 are absolutely incredible with my HD800s!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/777597/vintage-current-r2r-dac-owners-discussion-insight-and-review-thread


 
  
 Good to hear  I absolutely love my HD800 as well. So far the experience is much better than my first time with these headphones. The first time I had to experiment with my dac due to the treble sounding metallic at times. This time around I have no issues. My amp is a good level up which is probably why no such issues this time. 
  
 I was tempted to buy a theta dac a few weeks ago when I saw it on echo hifi. It was sold a few days after I decided to pass up on it but I figured I didn't need anything on top of what I already do have. My dac is a pretty good deal since the buyer did me a favor and sold it at a good price for me.


----------



## paulchiu

matttcg said:


> Already hit 41k with my latest pair.


 
 wow.
 mine at #666 seems ancient.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Not sure I would want 666 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.....just saying......
  
@rawrster, you have a great DAC, love Violectric. Just listening to Blood, Sweat & Tears, thought it was a really hot recording on my Uber Bifrost, not so on the Monarchy, now wondering if I need to upgrade my cable..


----------



## rawrster

It was cheap enough to consider but helps that I'm saving up for a car. I can't make nonsense purchases that are buy to try like I've done in the past. 

The hard part is knowing when is it good enough. I think I'm at that point now.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

rawrster said:


> It was cheap enough to consider but helps that I'm saving up for a car. I can't make nonsense purchases that are buy to try like I've done in the past.
> 
> The hard part is knowing when is it good enough. I think I'm at that point now.


 
 Are you moving to the "Burbs", hence the need for a car?


----------



## rawrster

No idea yet. A car would cut my commute by a significant amount however I'm also looking to get out of NYC. I've been looking at the Texas area so hopefully I'm able to find a job there so I can make the move. If all else fails it will just make my commute easier and also just easier to get around if I want to go places outside of nyc


----------



## Poimandres

Does anyone know if the 800's are on sale anywhere from an authorized dealer?


----------



## Rayzilla

longbowbbs said:


> Here is the current HD800 rig. The Studio Six is an incredible amp with every headphone I have used with it. It is the single best amp I have ever used with my HD800's. Great job @KB and the ALO Audio team!


 
 Nice set up. Have you ever tried hooking up speakers to the Six? I remember seeing a post with connectors that go from the headphone out to an adaptor for speakers. I was very interested in this amp and one of the features that I was looking for in an amp was the ability to run speakers.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I ordered new HD800 earpads/headband from Sennheiser US, but they appear to be on backorder. Is this usual, and does anyone have any experience with how long such backorders take to be filled?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Backorder is not uncommon. Many of the accessories are cheaper than where they can be bought elsewhere, so they tend to sell out. No way to tell how long. Pads for my hd650 where backordered and I think took about two weeks to ship iirc.


----------



## longbowbbs

rayzilla said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Here is the current HD800 rig. The Studio Six is an incredible amp with every headphone I have used with it. It is the single best amp I have ever used with my HD800's. Great job @KB and the ALO Audio team!
> ...




I do not have the custom ALO cable that connects to speakers via one of the headphone jacks. My understanding is that, like all SET amps, you would need a very efficient pair of speakers. Given that, it should work fine.


----------



## rawrster

poimandres said:


> Does anyone know if the 800's are on sale anywhere from an authorized dealer?




You can get refurbished from Crutchfield


----------



## MattTCG

Just listened to REM: Murmurs (mfsl). Questyle cma800r>hd800...just wow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  They music just rocked me like never before listening to that album. And that bass, amazing.


----------



## Yviena

Hmm kinda weird but switching between my T1 and HD800 i find there to be better depth on the T1 than on the hd800. Does anyone know if it is possible to mod them for some more depth?


----------



## JaZZ

yviena said:


> Hmm kinda weird but switching between my T1 and HD800 i find there to be better depth on the T1 than on the hd800. Does anyone know if it is possible to mod them for some more depth?


 
  
 Yes, it is.


----------



## RUMAY408

rawrster said:


> You can get refurbished from Crutchfield


 

 One thing nice about Crutchfield they stand by their products, if you need to return them no questions asked.


----------



## JamesBr

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I ordered new HD800 earpads/headband from Sennheiser US, but they appear to be on backorder. Is this usual, and does anyone have any experience with how long such backorders take to be filled?


 
 I would say that at this time of the year the markets are coming back to life wish is why may explain why retailers have problems with all the orders.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Thanks for the info. On a related note, how do new earpads affect performance? I bought them used, so I have only heard them with extremely compressed earpads.


----------



## BobFiggins

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Thanks for the info. On a related note, how do new earpads affect performance? I bought them used, so I have only heard them with extremely compressed earpads.




When I got my HD 800 I was surprised at how thin the pads were. There's no meat to them! I don't have a picture to compare with yours, but even if they are nearly flat that's not far off from a new one.


----------



## rawrster

When I owned the hd800 the first time I had some really old pads. The only difference is that new was not flaking off after each use and that it is slightly firmer. I didn't hear any difference in sound.


----------



## Gr8Desire

yviena said:


> Hmm kinda weird but switching between my T1 and HD800 i find there to be better depth on the T1 than on the hd800. Does anyone know if it is possible to mod them for some more depth?


 
 What do you mean by  "depth"?  

 Do you mean _forward and back sounds_ from inward facing headphones?

_Wouldn't that be a defect? _


----------



## HiFiChris

He's talking about spatial depth in the imaginary soundstage.
You should actually be able to spot the difference between various headphones in terms of spatial depth, too.

Let's take the HD 800: plenty of width, some lack of depth (in relation).
K701: much width, no depth. 
HD 600: balanced relation between depth and width. 
T1: the same as the HD 600, but more extended in terms of depth and width. 
LCD-X: not much width, lots of depth. 
I could go on with IEMs as I have more extreme examples (Westone W4R, UERM, Shure's SE425, ...), but I'll leave it at that. 

It's the HD 800's soundstage (among other attributes) that I love for classical and electro.


----------



## Yviena

Exactly I love the wide soundstage in the HD800 but I find the depth of the T1 to be more satisfying. I'm gonna try one of those HD800 mods to see if it helps with the depth.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

yviena said:


> Exactly I love the wide soundstage in the HD800 but I find the depth of the T1 to be more satisfying. I'm gonna try one of those HD800 mods to see if it helps with the depth.


 
 What cable are you using Norne or DHC really make a difference on soundstage and a better behaved treble.


----------



## Yviena

wildcatsare1 said:


> What cable are you using Norne or DHC really make a difference on soundstage and a better behaved treble.



Currently using the stock cable with removed dust covers. I don't really understand why people find the treble harsh maybe they come from a warm sounding headphone or just listen too loud? In my case my ears don't find the treble offensive until I crank it up really loud.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

yviena said:


> Currently using the stock cable with removed dust covers. I don't really understand why people find the treble harsh maybe they come from a warm sounding headphone or just listen too loud? In my case my ears don't find the treble offensive until I crank it up really loud.


 

 Actually, I am in the same boat presently, dust covers removed and stock cable. For classical, jazz, and acoustic rock, the highs are fine, may be a little too much "sssssssss' on mediocre recordings. I get too much treble though on most modern rock recordings. A few dB down at 6 KHz and up at 28 Hz does wonders though.
  
 Side note, read Darko and Audiostream's reports on DSL cable differences. Compared a generic CAT 7 and didn't want to throw money at the idea, so I picked up a Blue Jean Cable DSL. Really wanted to call BS, but damn, highs are a little less steely, bas is a little more impactful and the headstage expanded.  The HD800, Taurus Mk. 2 and Monarchy M22B are a revelation!


----------



## JaZZ

yviena said:


> Currently using the stock cable with removed dust covers. I don't really understand why people find the treble harsh maybe they come from a warm sounding headphone or just listen too loud? In my case my ears don't find the treble offensive until I crank it up really loud.


 
  
 If you want spatial depth, removing the dust covers is the wrong direction. You'd be better off with the opposite: dust covers put back into place and damping all reflective surfaces inside the earcups.
  
 The perception of true sonic depth as provided by the recordings is the result of preserved spatial cues: the differentiation between relatively direct (= dry) sounds and relatively reverberative sounds. It is dependent on transient accuracy, thus a reproduction as poor in parasitic reflections from the sound transducer as it gets.
  
 Just like in the HD 600 (which I used without the protective foam in a certain phase), the «dust cover» also serves as an acoustic damper – to minimize reflections between driver/housing and ear/head skin. The HD 800 mods address the same issue, with a reduction of the 6 kHz spike as a measurable component of the result.
  
 So even though I would't use my speakers with dust covers, with headphones they've become mandatory to me. They have different issues.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

jazz said:


> If you want spatial depth, removing the dust covers is the wrong direction. You'd be better off with the opposite: dust covers put back into place and damping all reflective surfaces inside the earcups.
> 
> The perception of true sonic depth as provided by the recordings is the result of preserved spatial cues: the differentiation between relatively direct (= dry) sounds and relatively reverberative sounds. It is dependent on transient accuracy, thus a reproduction as poor in parasitic reflections from the sound transducer as it gets.
> 
> ...




Thanks Mr. JaZZ, I will throw the dust covers back in, wanted to wait until I had a good feel for the SQ before major mods. Which do you recommend going with first?


----------



## JaZZ

wildcatsare1 said:


> Thanks Mr. JaZZ, I will throw the dust covers back in, wanted to wait until I had a good feel for the SQ before major mods. Which do you recommend going with first?


 
  
 The original, of course. But wait, foam is definitely easier to handle than velvet, so I'm not sure if I'd do you a favor with this recommendation. I just think velvet sounds better.


----------



## Yviena

Didn't know that I always thought removing the dust covers increased depth and transparency. If that's true wouldn't yours/anax mod then greatly help spatial cues because it dampens the mesh? Think im gonna visit my local hobby store tomorrow and buy some velvet/craft foam


----------



## JaZZ

yviena said:


> Didn't know that I always thought removing the dust covers increased depth and transparency. If that's true wouldn't yours/anax mod then greatly help spatial cues because it dampens the mesh? Think im gonna visit my local hobby store tomorrow and buy some velvet/craft foam


 
  
 Are you talking of the steel mesh? Neither mine nor the Anax mods (to my knowledge) apply some damping to it. The damping just serves for suppressing reflections, not material vibrations, at best as a minimal side effect. But yes, you may try the mod without the dust cover if you like – the damping mod will have a positive effect either way.


----------



## Yviena

Ah I think I mixed up yours/anax mod with some other guys hd800 mod that did something with the mesh. But removal of the dust cover gives greater clarity/transparency at the cost of spatial cues right?


----------



## JaZZ

yviena said:


> Ah I think I mixed up yours/anax mod with some other guys hd800 mod that did something with the mesh. But removal of the dust cover gives greater clarity/transparency at the cost of spatial cues right?


 
  
 Yes, I think so. If you like the now sound, it may be hard to sacrifice the clarity you're enjoing now for a drier sound that will be an inevitable consequence of the damping mods. It will take some getting used to, maybe even matching electronics or – if you're clever – the use of an equalizer.


----------



## kimvictor

I ordered the 02 for my HD800. Before you bash me, I have a really warm DAC(some fairly rare Japanese DAC), so I wanted to give it a shot. In fact, the DAC itself(+it's amp) was warmer than some tube amps I've tried, so I thought I could give it a shot with colder amps. And a fellow reviewers(who does measurements) told me that nothing below $1000 beats O2(he gets really technical) in terms of clarity measurements, calling it end game for his measurements. So I ordered one from Mayflower(with RCA input and 6.3mm output for my ADL cable). Even my cable is warm, so I'll see if HD800(anax mod) works with O2. All of my other gears are aimed towards warmth, so I feel like O2 might work just fine. If not, eh, I'll call it a day and get something from iFi or something.


----------



## Moonhead

02 Should work just fine 
I use a Tiny Superlux Amp and it works and sounds better than the more expensive Questyle i use to own.


----------



## Mach3

moonhead said:


> Normally not my genre, but god damnit Prodigy - The Fat of the Land is crazy with the HD800.
> 
> Nusrat Ali Khan is also worth a try if you like eastern music.


 
  
 The Fat of the Land album is without a doubt, proof the HD800 does not lack bass!


----------



## Moonhead

Yupp HD800 is crazy with EDM, more so than Stax, IMO.
Then Try some Nine Inch Nails and report back


----------



## dreamwhisper

moonhead said:


> Yupp HD800 is crazy with EDM, more so than Stax, IMO.
> Then Try some Nine Inch Nails and report back


 
 depends on the EDM. downtempo, prog trance are unbeatable on Stax imo
  
 DnB is HD800 wonderland.
  
 Which NiN do you reccommend?


----------



## Moonhead

With Teeth & Year Zero are Nice if you dont know the band Well. 
However the debut Pretty Hate Machine is My favorite.

Here is a track from Year Zero that goes crazy about 2min in, really Good workout for speakers aswell. 
Try to stream it if you Can...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=06hCku23WiE


----------



## Mach3

The HD800 is so special, it made me cross genre as you mentioned Moonhead. I would have never listen to Prodigy, NiN, Metallica etc before I owned the HD800.


----------



## Moonhead

RJD2
Moby 
Fatboy Slim
Daft Punk 


Nusrat Ali Khan
Bassekou Kouyate
Mulatu Astatke 
Curtis mayfield 
Ry cooder

And the list gone on..

Anybody know 16Horsepower..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL1vy5Zif0YhrmgOMwbbpZ0YS4fJXd8s1H&v=ZLiB1qYUbe0


----------



## Moonhead

Well HQ headphones lets you discover new elements in the Music and that Makes you urge for more, 
Just like with HQ active speakers


----------



## Womaz

I am considering the HD800. At present I have the Musical Fidelity headphone amp linked up to my Devialet 200.
 Current headphones ar the AKGQ701s and they are very good IMO. Will I gain much if I went for the HD8OO.
 I would love to demo them but this will probably not be possible.
  
 I may even consider buying a new headphone amp, although the one I have did get very favourable reviews and seems to be held in high regard. My headphone use will go up in the future so looking to get better if I can.
  
 Although I enjoy headphone listening since buying the 200, I have used them much less as it just cant compare to the sound I get from my 200 and my PMC23s.
  
 Any help appreciated


----------



## Moonhead

Eventhough i have Never listen to AKG Im pretty sure the change Will be significant, we are talking about one of the World Best headphone  maybe Stax take that cake Im not sure, but there is a Reason why everytime theres a new flagships you need to involve HD800, IMHO!!


----------



## Womaz

I think the frustrating thing for me is the lack of chance to compare, and £1100 is a lot to fork out on the chance that it is a big .pgrade.
 Thanks for reply.


----------



## thomascrown

womaz said:


> I think the frustrating thing for me is the lack of chance to compare, and £1100 is a lot to fork out on the chance that it is a big .pgrade.
> Thanks for reply.


 
  
 If you are close to London (I assume you're in uk), there is a place where to try the hd800, like http://www.audiolounge.co.uk/


----------



## Womaz

Up in Newcastle so not a lot of choice of dealers. I would like to demo them with my headphone amp if possible, but again that may not be possible.
  
 Shortlisted the HD800, Oppo PM1 and possibly the new HE1000.....although this is a crazy price!


----------



## Moonhead

Here you go Womaz, if you dont like it you Can sell it again with almost no loss 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SENNHEISER-HD800-HD-800-HEADPHONES-NEW-BOXED-FACTORY-SEALED-OFFICIAL-WARRANTY-/231592190854?hash=item35ebf86386


----------



## Womaz

Always a little suspicious with slashed prices on EBay...........brand new and £400 cheaper. Must be a reason. Thanks though


----------



## Moonhead

Well i Got mine from eBay at 923 Euro, different seller thought!

Dont know why headphones are so expensive in the UK!!


----------



## Womaz

Value added tax (VAT) at 20% probably the reason.


----------



## Moonhead

Well..

You snooze you lose


----------



## whirlwind

womaz said:


> I am considering the HD800. At present I have the Musical Fidelity headphone amp linked up to my Devialet 200.
> Current headphones ar the AKGQ701s and they are very good IMO. Will I gain much if I went for the HD8OO.
> I would love to demo them but this will probably not be possible.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, you will gain lots and lots and lots


----------



## Mach3

womaz said:


> I am considering the HD800. At present I have the Musical Fidelity headphone amp linked up to my Devialet 200.
> Current headphones ar the AKGQ701s and they are very good IMO. Will I gain much if I went for the HD8OO.
> I would love to demo them but this will probably not be possible.
> 
> ...




From my experience, it's like comparing a BMW 3 series to a Ferrari. Even though I like my AKG K7 series a lot. But the HD800 powered by my SPL Phonitor or balance beta22. It's totally on a different level.


----------



## Womaz

I have been investigating a few of the EBay listings and one says it is Asian stock, shipped from the UK, with no further taxes to pay. It does have a senn serial number though.


----------



## Womaz

mach3 said:


> From my experience, it's like comparing a BMW 3 series to a Ferrari. Even though I like my AKG K7 series a lot. But the HD800 powered by my SPL Phonitor or balance beta22. It's totally on a different level.


 

 Excellent, i note you also have the HE500. You obviously prefer the HD800?
 HifiMAN is another brand I am considering.


----------



## Mach3

womaz said:


> Excellent, i note you also have the HE500. You obviously prefer the HD800?
> HifiMAN is another brand I am considering.




If i didn't collect headphone as a hobby i would only keep the HD800 & the TH-900/W3000ANV as closed option. I'm not saying the HE-500 is bad.


----------



## Moonhead

Even Hifiman HE6 cant touch HD800, IMO.


----------



## Womaz

mach3 said:


> If i didn't collect headphone as a hobby i would only keep the HD800 & the TH-900/W3000ANV as closed option. I'm not saying the HE-500 is bad.


 

 Excellent help thanks. I am tempted by the EBay offerings


----------



## Moonhead

Interesting reading from Sennheiser Axel Grell.

http://www.cnet.com/news/a-headphone-buyers-guide-to-specifications/


----------



## Wildcatsare1

womaz said:


> Excellent, i note you also have the HE500. You obviously prefer the HD800?
> HifiMAN is another brand I am considering.




I had the HE1000 (+ I have the 560) for in in house try and have the HD800 now. Both are great headphones, just couldn't justify the price, loving the hD800 and looking forward trying some of the mods.


----------



## Oregonian

I know in the 1319 pages there's all the mods but can one of you gents lay it out in order of impact please.  I searched for a specific thread with no luck.
  
 I love my stock 800 and really don't see any glaring weakness but coming from the Denon D2000/5000/7000 world I modded everything about them as well as my HE-400 and HE-6 to where you couldn't find a part that wasn't touched, so I might be inclined to try one or three mods............
  
 Thank you in advance.


----------



## johnjen

Here is a decent place to start.
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod#XOB40C2uOryXhISS.97
  
 JJ


----------



## pearljam50000

The HD800 blow my mind when i listen to them.
The sound is unreal.
The level of transparency and clarity is hard to belive.
Its like you are in the studio with the artist and you listen to the live sound of music being played, and not a recording.
I can understand people that like a more "musical" and pleasant sound (Audeze etc...) but my goal of being an audiophile is finding the truth.
Hearing the music exactly as it was recorded, i want the good, the bad , and the ugly.
I can't enjoy music any other way.


----------



## johnjen

pearljam50000 said:


> The HD800 blow my mind when i listen to them.
> The sound is unreal.
> The level of transparency and clarity is hard to belive.
> Its like you are in the studio with the artist and you listen to the live sound of music being played, and not a recording.
> ...


 
 You may find that as you pursue truth, the good becomes way better, the bad becomes good, and the ugly becomes intriguing in its own right.
  
 JJ


----------



## MasterChef

I got my HD 800 about a week ago from the Verizon rewards program.... upgraded after using my HD 700 for about a year now and I'm very pleased with the improvement so far. Currently I'm listening out of a Mousai MSD192 dac (basically a rebranded Questyle CAS192 Mini) and an Asgard 2 amplifier.
  
 I do like the sound, but I would like to move towards an all-in-one dac/amplifer unit with more input/output options. I've been looking at the Fostex HP-A8 and Oppo HA-1 specifically. Wondering if there would be any sound improvements moving to one of these units (or possibly a downgrade?) 
  
 If moving to the Fostex or Oppo would yield no sound improvement from my current setup, my other consideration was eventually getting a TH900 with the money instead. 
 Any thoughts would be appreciated!


----------



## johnjen

That MSD192 is a Very Fine DAC.
 And the Asgard 2 ain't no slouch.
  
 I don't know about the 2 portables having never heard them.
  
 But consider 2 setups if it is possible.
 Mostly because I don't know how well the 800's will travel, for a variety of reasons.
 And if you hit a lick with your current system (the SQ is very 'satisfying') then consider it as a 'reference' system which allows you to compare it with your travel system.
  
 JJ


----------



## ExistentialEAR

I agree with hit a lick sensation 
http://youtu.be/Xl58z7tX3ik


----------



## MattTCG

masterchef said:


> I got my HD 800 about a week ago from the Verizon rewards program.... upgraded after using my HD 700 for about a year now and I'm very pleased with the improvement so far. Currently I'm listening out of a Mousai MSD192 dac (basically a rebranded Questyle CAS192 Mini) and an Asgard 2 amplifier.
> 
> I do like the sound, but I would like to move towards an all-in-one dac/amplifer unit with more input/output options. I've been looking at the Fostex HP-A8 and Oppo HA-1 specifically. Wondering if there would be any sound improvements moving to one of these units (or possibly a downgrade?)
> 
> ...


 
  
 For all in ones, I did not like the HA-1 with the hd800. Made the 800 sound thin and somewhat harsh.
  
 Now this is a different story (notice that there is an "800" in the name of the product, not by chance):
  
 http://www.questyleaudio.com/product-cma800i


----------



## Wildcatsare1

matttcg said:


> For all in ones, I did not like the HA-1 with the hd800. Made the 800 sound thin and somewhat harsh.
> 
> Now this is a different story (notice that there is an "800" in the name of the product, not by chance):
> 
> http://www.questyleaudio.com/product-cma800i




Matt, that looks like a great option! Hate that I am going to miss the Meet, have you heard this amp/DAC with your HD800?


----------



## Pokemonn

Hello HD800 gentleman! Im a newbie. and sorry for my bad english. I live in Tokyo.
  
 I bought Little Dot I+ tube amp recently.
 so I paired LD I+ and HD800. WOW this combo sound very smooth especially in treble! I did not expected this.
 Little Dot amp (i have heard output IMP about 40 ohms?) + HD800 combo is good combination to tame thin sounding???
 Are there more better tube amps solution for HD800???
 If you know about it, please let us know about it.
 Thank you very much!


----------



## TokenGesture

pearljam50000 said:


> The HD800 blow my mind when i listen to them.
> The sound is unreal.
> The level of transparency and clarity is hard to belive.
> Its like you are in the studio with the artist and you listen to the live sound of music being played, and not a recording.
> ...


 

 You want the truth? You can't handle the truth


----------



## MattTCG

pokemonn said:


> Hello HD800 gentleman! Im a newbie. and sorry for my bad english. I live in Tokyo.
> 
> I bought Little Dot I+ tube amp recently.
> so I paired LD I+ and HD800. WOW this combo sound very smooth especially in treble! I did not expected this.
> ...


 
  
 I find the Woo amps are outstanding with the hd800 if not somewhat pricey. The wa22 is somewhat legendary with the hd800.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

pokemonn said:


> Hello HD800 gentleman! Im a newbie. and sorry for my bad english. I live in Tokyo.
> 
> I bought Little Dot I+ tube amp recently.
> so I paired LD I+ and HD800. WOW this combo sound very smooth especially in treble! I did not expected this.
> ...




Your English is far better than my Japanese, no worries. 

I have a Little Dot III that I use occasionally on "hotter" recordings with my HD800. I strongly prefer my Tarus Mk.2, the Schiit Valhalla or Vali are good choices, all the way up to the Apex Teton and Alo Studio 6.


----------



## thecrow

wildcatsare1 said:


> Your English is far better than my Japanese, no worries.
> 
> I have a Little Dot III that I use occasionally on "hotter" recordings with my HD800. I strongly prefer my Tarus Mk.2, the Schiit Valhalla or Vali are good choices, all the way up to the Apex Teton and Alo Studio 6.


Coincidentally enough in looking to upgrade my set up for something's smoother and a little warmer I was introduced to a woo wa2 tonight that I'm contemplating going with soon


----------



## Pokemonn

matttcg said:


> I find the Woo amps are outstanding with the hd800 if not somewhat pricey. The wa22 is somewhat legendary with the hd800.


 
 Quote:


wildcatsare1 said:


> Your English is far better than my Japanese, no worries.
> 
> I have a Little Dot III that I use occasionally on "hotter" recordings with my HD800. I strongly prefer my Tarus Mk.2, the Schiit Valhalla or Vali are good choices, all the way up to the Apex Teton and Alo Studio 6.


 
 Thank you @MattTCG and @Wilcatsare1 for reply and advices!!!
 I will search and study at Head fi sites with those key words! Thank you!


----------



## MattTCG

http://www.wooaudio.com/products/


----------



## gammarayson

I've had the HD 800s for 5 or 6 years, and although they are not perfect, they are still the headphone all others have to live up to. I like different flavours in sound also greatly enjoy Hifiman's HE-560s and Ultrasones Signature Pros, as well as Stax Lambda Pros. Much has been written about the pros and cons of different amps and sources. I run my HD 800s off either an Oppo HA-1 or Meier Audio's Corda Concerto with the Oppo 105D as source. To be honest, I can't really hear any difference in the sound between the 2 amps. Nevertheless, I am curious to hear some honest opinions from you people who maybe do own more exotic amps that cost as much as the cans themselves, how dramatic the improvements in sound have been? I note that Moonhead is using a modest little Superlux amp which he preferred to the Questyle he once owned! 
    The common wisdom here seems to be that the HD 800s need a lot of investment in amplification etc to reach their full potential. In the search for ultimate sound, I have been looking at the likes of the Schiit Ragnarok, Auralic Taurus and GD Audio Master 9 which are well regarded here. I have no opportunity to audition them here unfortunately. Am I failing to experience the HD 800s full potential with my present equipment? They sound pretty damn good already!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

gammarayson said:


> I've had the HD 800s for 5 or 6 years, and although they are not perfect, they are still the headphone all others have to live up to. I like different flavours in sound also greatly enjoy Hifiman's HE-560s and Ultrasones Signature Pros, as well as Stax Lambda Pros. Much has been written about the pros and cons of different amps and sources. I run my HD 800s off either an Oppo HA-1 or Meier Audio's Corda Concerto with the Oppo 105D as source. To be honest, I can't really hear any difference in the sound between the 2 amps. Nevertheless, I am curious to hear some honest opinions from you people who maybe do own more exotic amps that cost as much as the cans themselves, how dramatic the improvements in sound have been? I note that Moonhead is using a modest little Superlux amp which he preferred to the Questyle he once owned!
> The common wisdom here seems to be that the HD 800s need a lot of investment in amplification etc to reach their full potential. In the search for ultimate sound, I have been looking at the likes of the Schiit Ragnarok, Auralic Taurus and GD Audio Master 9 which are well regarded here. I have no opportunity to audition them here unfortunately. Am I failing to experience the HD 800s full potential with my present equipment? They sound pretty damn good already!




I love my Tarus Mk.2, also heard good things about the Queststyle Amps as well. Where do you live, are you able to go to any Meets?


----------



## tankhuu1994

I just bought the Valhalla 2 for my HD800. Any reccomendation on a good pair of tube that compliments the HD800 better then the stock?


----------



## gammarayson

I'm in Denmark, of course I could enquire on the excellent Danish headphone forum Hovedfi if there any Auralic/Ragnarok owners nearby


----------



## Moonhead

Cheers Gamma..
I live in Aarhus, let me know if you want to try Superlux or just need a different opinion


----------



## gammarayson

Thanks, Casper. My question about high-end amps is really curiosity about the sense or not in investing so much in an amp which I'm not convinced I would be able to distinguish from my present more modest amps. I see you used to own the Questyle which has reviewed very highly. Was it nothing special in your opinion?


----------



## Moonhead

Your welcome to send a PM


----------



## Rayzilla

I would love to hear some personal experiences of the Questyle (CMA800i) with the HD 800. I would also be interested in hearing how it is with other headphones too, especially with the LCD-XC.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## RUMAY408

matttcg said:


> I find the Woo amps are outstanding with the hd800 if not somewhat pricey. The wa22 is somewhat legendary with the hd800.


 

 The WA 22 was excellent but the WA 5 was even better, unfortunately the price scales with the sound.
  
 Yggy/Wa 5 combo was complex, lush and analytic, the thump of bass on The Beatles "Come Together," speaks volumes about how deep the HP can be pushed.


----------



## Pokemonn

Quote: 





wildcatsare1 said:


> Your English is far better than my Japanese, no worries.
> 
> I have a Little Dot III that I use occasionally on "hotter" recordings with my HD800.


 
 I bought Little Dot III arrived my home today!
 Wow this markIII + HD800 combo sounds full body bass and very tasty treble!!! Very yummy!!! I didn't expect this!
 Thank you @Wildcatsare1 for let me know about mark3!
 Thank you!


----------



## Rayzilla

At the HP shop trying out the Bryston BHA-1 with MY HD 800. I am liking it very much so far. Hopefully it is not because I spent the first 30 minutes or so listening through the Kingsound KS-H2 and KS-H3.
  
 I am going to try the Aurorasound HEADA after a little while longer with the BHA-1.


----------



## Rayzilla

Just switched up the cable to the store's CH800 balanced cable. I don't think it is placebo, but I do notice the overall sound to be a little more dynamic.
  
 BTW, the dac is the Stello DA100.


----------



## Pokemonn

rayzilla said:


> Just switched up the cable to the store's CH800 balanced cable. I don't think it is placebo, but I do notice the overall sound to be a little more dynamic.
> 
> BTW, the dac is the Stello DA100.


 

 from my experience, I think balanced cable sound slightly tamed treble than stock cable? How do you feel?


----------



## Rayzilla

pokemonn said:


> from my experience, I think balanced cable sound slightly tamed treble than stock cable? How do you feel?


 

 I didn't get a long enough listen to check for that but now that you mentioned it, it may have sounded that way because the mids and lows became more apparent. It's definitely making me think harder about whether to go for a STAX system or to upgrade my dynamic HP system. Tough decision. What makes it a tougher decision is that I originally was dead set on getting the Ragnarok, but I won't get a chance to try it before I buy it because the stores here do not have them in stock. Whatever they order is pretty much automatically sold.
  
 Does anyone comment on the comparison between the Bryston BHA-1 and the Schiit Ragnarok? Those are my two front runners, along with the Questyle CMA800i, if I go for the dynamic HP system upgrade.


----------



## Pokemonn

rayzilla said:


> I didn't get a long enough listen to check for that but now that you mentioned it, it may have sounded that way because the mids and lows became more apparent. It's definitely making me think harder about whether to go for a STAX system or to upgrade my dynamic HP system. Tough decision. What makes it a tougher decision is that I originally was dead set on getting the Ragnarok, but I won't get a chance to try it before I buy it because the stores here do not have them in stock. Whatever they order is pretty much automatically sold.
> 
> Does anyone comment on the comparison between the Bryston BHA-1 and the Schiit Ragnarok? Those are my two front runners, along with the Questyle CMA800i, if I go for the dynamic HP system upgrade.


 

 I highly recommend to audition Stax system very carefully before you purchase Stax. Some don't prefer Electrostatic's sharp and hard sounding.
 even I own Stax, I also prefer dynamic HPs over electrostatic HPs. well amped HD800s sound very good and musical.


----------



## Rayzilla

pokemonn said:


> I highly recommend to audition Stax system very carefully before you purchase Stax. Some don't prefer Electrostatic's sharp and hard sounding.
> even I own Stax, I also prefer dynamic HPs over electrostatic HPs. well amped HD800s sound very good and musical.


 

 Actually, I think the HD 800 is quite sharp sounding, and I really like that part about it. I like the hard (quick) sounding bass and everywhere else too. Sounds like STAX is something I would like. I have auditioned them once only. I certainly would like to give them another listen before making the final decision. The problem is that I will only be able to afford something like the SRM-323s amp for now until I get another spending spree budget in about another year. Will the 009 and 507 be good enough off of the 323s?


----------



## Pokemonn

rayzilla said:


> Actually, I think the HD 800 is quite sharp sounding, and I really like that part about it. I like the hard (quick) sounding bass and everywhere else too. Sounds like STAX is something I would like. I have auditioned them once only. I certainly would like to give them another listen before making the final decision. The problem is that I will only be able to afford something like the SRM-323s amp for now until I get another spending spree budget in about another year. Will the 009 and 507 be good enough off of the 323s?


 

 Ok, but IMO, Stax SR009 sound far sharper than HD800.so you need to audition at local audio shop very very carefully at least few times.
 I own 407 which has same driver of 507. 407/507 are not bad at all. very sharp electrostatic sounding which some don't prefer. 
 323s is one of best stax amp. 323 sound livery and energies. 323 can drive 009 and 507 very well. 
 I personally recommend to stay with HD800...


----------



## Moonhead

I second that ^ ^
009 is a lot sharper than HD800, with piercing treble that was somewhat the deal breaker for me + to delicate and expensive for what it is! 
There's is no perfect headphone and for me a found more flaws with Stax than HD800

Don't get me wrong, both 009 & 007 can be sublime with KGSSHV, especially with all sorts of acoustic music, but I highly prefer EDM with HD800 to Stax!

I'm one of the few people preferring 007 to 009, as I found double 07 a lot more natural and lifelike, just like a good Live gig.

As always only you can decide what works best for you, go audition and then make sure to audition some more


----------



## Wildcatsare1

rayzilla said:


> I didn't get a long enough listen to check for that but now that you mentioned it, it may have sounded that way because the mids and lows became more apparent. It's definitely making me think harder about whether to go for a STAX system or to upgrade my dynamic HP system. Tough decision. What makes it a tougher decision is that I originally was dead set on getting the Ragnarok, but I won't get a chance to try it before I buy it because the stores here do not have them in stock. Whatever they order is pretty much automatically sold.
> 
> Does anyone comment on the comparison between the Bryston BHA-1 and the Schiit Ragnarok? Those are my two front runners, along with the Questyle CMA800i, if I go for the dynamic HP system upgrade.




I love my Tarus Mk.2 with the HD800, Friends with both the Queststyle and Rags love them. I have heard the Rag may be a bit "to smooth" from one Friend. I cannot confirm that though, I haven't listened to the Rag with my 800 yet.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

moonhead said:


> I second that ^ ^
> 009 is a lot sharper than HD800, with piercing treble that was somewhat the deal breaker for me + to delicate and expensive for what it is!
> There's is no perfect headphone and for me a found more flaws with Stax than HD800
> 
> ...




There are two of you, I was speaking to a Buddy who sold his 007 to get an 009, he would love to have the 007 back. He thinks it's the "more musical" of the two.


----------



## Moonhead

007 are more forgiving off course and the only headphone I've owned to master multiply genres, but you give some you lose some!

No doubt 009 more technical perfect but you get so many artificial details that does not have anything to do with the music, IMHO!!
Even Spritzer said that 

Again I'm not trying to dish Stax, they can be very addictive, but much more fragile at a much higher price.
And I can drive my HD800 with my Superlux where ever I want, try that with Stax


----------



## preproman

I'm the total opposite.  If I had to only have one headphone in all the world.  It would be my Stax 009s.  Hell my HD800s would come after the Abyss.  But yeh, different strokes for different folks.  I continue to purchase the HD800s (my third time).  Now I've found how to use them - for me anyway.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

pokemonn said:


> from my experience, I think balanced cable sound slightly tamed treble than stock cable? How do you feel?


 
 I posted my experience in comparing a (custom) balanced cable to the stock single ended cable on the HD 800, *here*.
  
 Here is the essence of it, quoting that post:
  


> When I first tried his cable in balanced mode, the soundstage became MUCH wider and the vocalist that was at center stage in single ended mode became just off center.  Overall tone was darker and bass was deeper, perhaps addressing the concern of those folks how find a bit a stridency in the HD 800 high end (I never did). I then tried his cable with pigtail converter in single-ended mode, comparing it to the stock Sennheiser single-ended cable that came with the headphones.  It sounded a bit better... a little faster and brighter, and the vocalist returned to center stage!


----------



## Moonhead

If I had to have only one headphone it would be 007 mkI, but it is not that superior to HD800 and a whole different price league!


----------



## preproman

moonhead said:


> If I had to have only one headphone it would be 007 mkI, but it is not that superior to HD800 and a whole different price league!


 

 Different price league?  How so?  You can't buy the mk1s new anymore.  A used pair cost around the same as a new pair of HD800s


----------



## Moonhead

Well not in Europe, mate 
Can't even get a used MK2 for the price of a new HD800

I can get a pair of new HD800 at the same price as a new MK2 or 2pair of HD800 for the price of a new 009.

Oh and HE560 cost exactly the same as HD800 I know what I would choose, even though I have not listen to HE560.
Use to own HE6!


----------



## masterfuu

Using my HD800 with Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies (with upgraded tubes). Phenomenal sound. Bass is also there and I sound is just smooth full bodied and not hard on ears. Not bright at all.


----------



## defbear

I was looking at Woo Audio and may go there in the future for a tube amp. I like Balanced and was going to go for the wa22. I would up with the Audio-gd Master 11 Dac-Amp combo. I couldn't be more pleased with the 800's on the Master 11


----------



## kimvictor

I just paired the O2 with the HD800. Enough power for sure, and the sound is simply sublime. Easily beats $500 amps I've tried. Shocking. O2. wow.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

WOW! Just listening to Steely Dan for the first time with my HD800, Taurus, and Monarchy set-up, this is a revelation!


----------



## devilboy

The Draug 2 finally arrived today. 
  
 WA2 with:   Tungsol/Chatham 6AS7G
                     Amperex 6DJ8
                     Mullard EZ80
 HD800 with Anaxilus mod


----------



## koiloco

^ beautiful


----------



## MattTCG

devilboy said:


> The Draug 2 finally arrived today.
> 
> WA2 with:   Tungsol/Chatham 6AS7G
> Amperex 6DJ8
> ...


 
  
 Draug 2 can be had naked? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Me likey!!


----------



## devilboy

Really? Trevor told me the Draug 2 was not available with jacket/sleeve other than clear. 
Me no likey.


----------



## devilboy

I asked for red with gray tracer.


----------



## MattTCG

devilboy said:


> I asked for red with gray tracer.


 
  
 Then sell it to me!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

matttcg said:


> Draug 2 can be had naked?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Matt, Trevor's latest run is bare naked (down here naaaaaaaaaakaddd)...


----------



## RUMAY408

Naked, thats what I want for a 3 foot extension


----------



## ruthieandjohn

wildcatsare1 said:


> Matt, Trevor's latest run is bare naked (down here naaaaaaaaaakaddd)...


 
 Sounds like Trevor is a streaker!!


----------



## uchihaitachi

kimvictor said:


> I just paired the O2 with the HD800. Enough power for sure, and the sound is simply sublime. Easily beats $500 amps I've tried. Shocking. O2. wow.


 
 Well all unwanted artifacts are way below threshold and it has a ruler flat frequency response. Enjoy!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

So the replacement earpads came. I bought my HD800s secondhand, with a 063xx serial number, and i don't think the earpads had been replaced before. I'm not sure if this is just my purchaser's bias, but the sound seems more collected, well placed, and spacious. And my ears no longer touch the lining  
  
 The price feels a little exploitative ($80 directly from Sennheiser, I've seen $100+ elsewhere), and I had to wait for them to return to stock (a week, maybe 2?), but I would be hard pressed not to concede that the sound at least SEEMS to be $80 improved. If you can feel the lining on your earpads, I would thus recommend the purchase as on balance a worthwhile one.
  
 Other thoughts on earpad replacement benefits? Am I victim of a placebo?


----------



## RUMAY408

bosiemoncrieff said:


> So the replacement earpads came. I bought my HD800s secondhand, with a 063xx serial number, and i don't think the earpads had been replaced before. I'm not sure if this is just my purchaser's bias, but the sound seems more collected, well placed, and spacious. And my ears no longer touch the lining
> 
> The price feels a little exploitative ($80 directly from Sennheiser, I've seen $100+ elsewhere), and I had to wait for them to return to stock (a week, maybe 2?), but I would be hard pressed not to concede that the sound at least SEEMS to be $80 improved. If you can feel the lining on your earpads, I would thus recommend the purchase as on balance a worthwhile one.
> 
> Other thoughts on earpad replacement benefits? Am I victim of a placebo?


 

 Ear pad wear in the vintage headphone thread is a topic brought up often for good reason.  It is very important.  
 Since the vintage HP's are relatively speaking pretty cheap, ear cushion change outs can result in major changes in the audio HP experience.


----------



## kimvictor

uchihaitachi said:


> Well all unwanted artifacts are way below threshold and it has a ruler flat frequency response. Enjoy!


 
 Amazing. Who said HD800 doesn't pair well with the O2? You complain about something being too revealing at $1500. That's ridiculous. It should be this revealing.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I guess I was one of those who said that the O2 wasn't the strongest match for the HD800. I didn't care for the combination, preferring my Taurus Mk. 2 and the Vallhalla 2. I felt the O2 added siblence in the treble. I wasn't able to use an EQ at the time, so perhaps that was an issue.


----------



## kimvictor

wildcatsare1 said:


> I guess I was one of those who said that the O2 wasn't the strongest match for the HD800. I didn't care for the combination, preferring my Taurus Mk. 2 and the Vallhalla 2. I felt the O2 added siblence in the treble. I wasn't able to use an EQ at the time, so perhaps that was an issue.


 
 Well, I guess I do have the annax mod applied. It kind of cancels each other out. I would call the unmodded HD800 with O2 sharp too.


----------



## icebear

bosiemoncrieff said:


> So the replacement earpads came. I bought my HD800s secondhand, with a 063xx serial number, and i don't think the earpads had been replaced before. I'm not sure if this is just my purchaser's bias, but the sound seems more collected, well placed, and spacious. And my ears no longer touch the lining
> 
> The price feels a little exploitative ($80 directly from Sennheiser, I've seen $100+ elsewhere), and I had to wait for them to return to stock (a week, maybe 2?), *but I would be hard pressed not to concede that the sound at least SEEMS to be $80 improved. *If you can feel the lining on your earpads, I would thus recommend the purchase as on balance a worthwhile one.
> 
> Other thoughts on earpad replacement benefits? *Am I victim of a placebo?*


 
 To put an exact $xx on an improvement is usually pretty difficult. In case of headphone pad replacement it is obvious that proper distance and damping gets restored to the original state. Pads are a parts that wears out and soaks up all kinds of dirt which influences the properties. I don't think that this is a placebo effect.
  
 There are true placebos around that are a LOT more expensive than $80, especially in the high end scheme of things


----------



## jlbrach

received a pair of 800's today...bought a used pair and used them this afternoon with my chord hugo and my ak240 with my vorzuge pure II and they sounded glorious with both.i currently have an audeze LCD-3F and i am not sure which one i like better but i know i really do like the 800!i also have a pair of Oppo PM-1s which surprisingly hold up very well against hese 2 titans and i use to travel with me due to their size and weight.....i am glad i picked up the 800 because i have always wondered how they compare


----------



## jlbrach

the one thing i will say about the 800 is if you listen to a great sounding recording it is truly glorious but if you listen to a poorly recorded and mastered recording look out,it is going to bring out all the flaws


----------



## RUMAY408

jlbrach said:


> the one thing i will say about the 800 is if you listen to a great sounding recording it is truly glorious but if you listen to a poorly recorded and mastered recording look out,it is going to bring out all the flaws


 

 I have the LCD3 and HD800 as well, different strengths and weaknesses.
  
 Just bought a Headamp GS-X mk2 arriving any day now, so expecting to scale up from the Meier Corda Classic Amp


----------



## nephilim32

jlbrach said:


> the one thing i will say about the 800 is if you listen to a great sounding recording it is truly glorious but if you listen to a poorly recorded and mastered recording look out,it is going to bring out all the flaws




That is very very true. Also, how could something look like this and be friendly to poor quality?


----------



## jlbrach

800 sounds wonderful with my chord hugo


----------



## whirlwind

rumay408 said:


> jlbrach said:
> 
> 
> > the one thing i will say about the 800 is if you listen to a great sounding recording it is truly glorious but if you listen to a poorly recorded and mastered recording look out,it is going to bring out all the flaws
> ...


 
 Congrats on that Headamp GS-X mk2


----------



## rawrster

wildcatsare1 said:


> I guess I was one of those who said that the O2 wasn't the strongest match for the HD800. I didn't care for the combination, preferring my Taurus Mk. 2 and the Vallhalla 2. I felt the O2 added siblence in the treble. I wasn't able to use an EQ at the time, so perhaps that was an issue.


 
  
 Considering the price of the O2 it is not that bad with the HD800. There are of course areas where it does not excel compared to the Taurus but it's an amp closing in on the 2k price range and the O2 is well..$100 or so. However price aside, the O2 does lack in areas (to me at least) where I would not want it to be my main amp for the HD800.
  


rumay408 said:


> I have the LCD3 and HD800 as well, different strengths and weaknesses.
> 
> Just bought a Headamp GS-X mk2 arriving any day now, so expecting to scale up from the Meier Corda Classic Amp


 
  
 Nice. That is a very nice sounding amp and sounds great with the HD800. I've wanted to purchase it in the past but every time it goes on sale I'm not ready to buy or someone else saw it first and I'm not patient enough to buy new.


----------



## jlbrach

for me thus far the Chord Hugo and Vorzuge pure II+ are both fantastic...I use the Vorzuge with my AK240 and i use the Hugo with my 120...both sound fantastic


----------



## JamieMcC

Bob Katz a fan or the 02 over on innerfidelity makes some observations between the 02 and the AMB M³
  
 "In a previous episode I waxed rhapsodic over the JDS labs O2 amp, saying that I’d like to pit it against a high priced contender. Well, they warned us in the 1918 song: “How you gonna keep ‘em down on the farm after they’ve seen Paree?” The M³ is haute cuisine — it eats up the O2 for déjeuner, petit déjeuner and dîner! In comparison, the O2 sounds murky, flat (undynamic) and without bass definition. So let’s call the O2 what it is: a middleweight contender, maybe not even a middleweight champ but I don’t know enough middleweights to know for sure. Likewise, the M³ is definitely a heavyweight contender."
  
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/katz%E2%80%99s-corner-episode-7-mosfet-magic#IrF6uyLK1BBW1UXS.97


----------



## Mahdi8

Amb stuff are awesome. M3 are no exception. My reference amp for hd800 is now Dr Gilmore's designed super symmetry dynahi. My of my does hd800 sings with it.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Bear with me, the amp recommendation thread linked in the first post has been dead for a few months.
 Can any owner who tried at least two of these amps, recommend me one for the HD800?
  

  
  
 As I searched & searched, these are the ones that came up the most in recommendations that were (almost) under $1,000.
  
 I have the Beyerdynamics T1 & tried the stock _Bottlehead Crack_, _iFi Micro iDSD_, _Schiit Asgard 2_ & _Headroom Desktop amp_.
 None of them were able to tame the sibilance & harshness to the treble of the T1 fully.
  
 Read the HD800 is just as bad, if not worse for that painful treble spike.
  
  
 I plan on buying the HD800 down the line, but can't afford the $2,000-$5,000 amps that everyone recommends that pairs best with the HD800.
 So I have to settle for the sub $1,000.
  
  
 Can anyone give me some insight?
 Would love to spend just $500 on an amp that can 100% gets rid of the treble spike, sibilance & harshness & makes the headphones sound smooth. Plus expand the soundstage, bring froth the midrange & bass.
 But in my experience with the sub-$500 amps I own, none of them can do that.


----------



## johnjen

What Dac are you using?

JJ


----------



## Thenewguy007

johnjen said:


> What Dac are you using?
> 
> JJ


 
  
 I'm using the DAC inside the iFi Micro iDSD.


----------



## JamieMcC

mahdi8 said:


> Amb stuff are awesome. M3 are no exception. My reference amp for hd800 is now Dr Gilmore's designed super symmetry dynahi. My of my does hd800 sings with it.


 
  
 The Dynahi has a awesome reputation.  I remember when researching Bottleheads Mainline one of the things that sold me where some comments of how the Mainline's voicing sits between the solid state Dynahi and valve DNA Stratus.
  
 Found the comment.
  
 "So I rant a lot about the Stratus here...  It's no wonder it is often considered the best amp for the HD800's.  A lot of all this, however, has to do with personal preference.  The Stratus is a warmer amp than the Mainline and I find that mixes well with the HD800's.  The Mainline is much more neutral.  It's actually much more similar to my SuSy Dynahi in signature which also happens to be considered one of the best solid state amps for the HD800's.  The Mainline is somewhere in between the two for voicing, but much closer to the Dynahi.  As a side note, the Dynahi (also a DIY amp) cost more to build than the Mainline."
  
 I quiet fancy having a go at a M3 or Sigma22 build but it wont be in the foreseeable future


----------



## Mahdi8

You mean an m3 with Sigma22 PSU? An M3 doesn't really need a sigma22, sigma11 is much more than enough for an m3 which is really a half size sigma22 with less output but all the performance. as long as you get really good torroidal transformer you're set. What a shame is I've seen many m3 build using a cheap transformer or worse using a switchmode PSU. Those don' so m3 justice IMO
  
 Mainline is a great amp but bottlehead should have designed it to have balanced input. I know they say as long as the single ended output of a DAC is designed properly balanced input is not needed. But from my experience all the DAC I've tried that has single ended and balanced, the balanced output always sounds better.


----------



## MattTCG

thenewguy007 said:


> I'm using the DAC inside the iFi Micro iDSD.


 
  
 That's actually a very good dac. With regard to suggestions in your price range:
  
 1. The mjo2 looks to be a promising amp but it's too new and the original was not very good with the hd800, so that would likely be a pass. 
  
 2. I've used the wa2 with the 800 and found it pretty good but about on par with the BHC w/sb. Plus it thought the wa22 was much better. Finally you already said that you tried the BHC and that it didn't work for you. 
  
 3. As far as treble tamers for $10 you can perform THE mod and get appreciably smoother treble, which is a lot cheaper than some of these other solutions. This is a mod any moron can do, even me. If you are look for more warmth throughout the spectrum for the 800, then that changes things. Here is a wildcard choice that will give you both: Questyle cma800r. This current mode amp makes the treble velvety smooth but retains the detail, plus adds overall warmth. It's a great pairing and one of my favorites. 
  
 4. The ecp L2 amp is a great choice and you can find it for around your budget if you can catch it used.  It's an end game amp IMO. http://www.ecpaudio.com/L2.shtml
  
 5. On a budget the Vallhalla 2 with stock tubes is pretty damn good. Don't overlook it because of the cheap price. Very resolving for an OTL amp. Renders subtle details beautifully. 
  
 6. Finally, another wildcard choice...a vintage 60's-70's receiver. Many here will turn up there noses at this choice. But there are many vintage receivers that pair amazingly well with the 800. The Fisher 500c remains one of the top three pairings that heard with the 800 ever. Without any budget constraints whatsoever. There is a dedicated thread for the vintage receivers here on HF. Plus Oregonian just picked up the 800 and is a big vintage guy and I'm sure that he could help.
  
 Good luck, kindly,
  
 Matt


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Hey Gents,

Just picked up a Kenzie Headamp and a bunch of NOS Tubes. Anybody have any experience with this amp?


----------



## Oregonian

matttcg said:


> That's actually a very good dac. With regard to suggestions in your price range:
> 
> 1. The mjo2 looks to be a promising amp but it's too new and the original was not very good with the hd800, so that would likely be a pass.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I second Matt's recommendation on vintage amps/receivers.  Heard it out of my Pioneer SX-1050 and Spec 1 & 2 (preamp/amp setup from their top of the line products in the late '70's) and absolutely love the sound.  Where I had read the 800 was bass light, out of these vintage speaker amps the bass is incredible.  As is the entire sound signature............
  
 Oh, and the pricing is very doable - paid $400 for the SX-1050 and $280 for the Spec stack (rare find - being at the right place at the right time- the Spec rack systems typically sell for upwards of $2K).


----------



## Thenewguy007

matttcg said:


> Here is a wildcard choice that will give you both: Questyle cma800r. This current mode amp makes the treble velvety smooth but retains the detail, plus adds overall warmth. It's a great pairing and one of my favorites.
> 
> 4. The ecp L2 amp is a great choice and you can find it for around your budget if you can catch it used.  It's an end game amp IMO. http://www.ecpaudio.com/L2.shtml
> 
> 5. On a budget the Vallhalla 2 with stock tubes is pretty damn good. Don't overlook it because of the cheap price. Very resolving for an OTL amp. Renders subtle details beautifully.


 
  
 Seems there is no place to buy a Questyle CMA800r at the moment.
 Ditto for the ECP L2.
  
 I read several posts saying the Mjolnir 2 at $850 doesn't pair well with the HD800 from several posters on this thread.
 So the Valhalla 2 at $350 is supposed to do better?

 I'm still in the state of mind where higher $$$ = better all around quality.
  
 Like a the $350 Gustard H10 is supposed to be a exact Chinese clone of the $1,100 Violectric V200, but a lot of posts I read said the Gustard H10 doesn't pair well at all with the HD800, while everyone recommended the V200.


----------



## JamieMcC

matttcg said:


> That's actually a very good dac. With regard to suggestions in your price range:
> 
> 1. The mjo2 looks to be a promising amp but it's too new and the original was not very good with the hd800, so that would likely be a pass.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thought I might add that from what I understand the Dsavitsk ECP L2 linage is directly derived from the Gary Dahi Espressivo Amplifier.
  
 Dsavitsk made a version of the amp that didn't use the expensive and exotic parts of the Espressivo this was christened the Less-pressivo as it cost less the L2 was a abbreviation it seems for commercial reasons. The current Dsavitsk Torpedo kit is essentially the L2 amp I believe but designed to be pcb based for DIY builders.
  
 There is a new version Torpedo III due to be launched soon which is rumoured to have summit fi potential.
  
 The current Torpedo kit is currently $325 so well in budget some good info about for options for tubes capacitors to tweak the sound signature perhaps there are a few Torpedo HD800 users about that might comment.
  
ttp://www.beezar.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=153
  
  
http://www.diyforums.org/Torpedo/TORPEDOhistory.php


----------



## Gr8Desire

gammarayson said:


> I've had the HD 800s for 5 or 6 years, and although they are not perfect, they are still the headphone all others have to live up to. I like different flavours in sound also greatly enjoy Hifiman's HE-560s and Ultrasones Signature Pros, as well as Stax Lambda Pros. Much has been written about the pros and cons of different amps and sources. I run my HD 800s off either an Oppo HA-1 or Meier Audio's Corda Concerto with the Oppo 105D as source. To be honest, I can't really hear any difference in the sound between the 2 amps. Nevertheless, I am curious to hear some honest opinions from you people who maybe do own more exotic amps that cost as much as the cans themselves, how dramatic the improvements in sound have been? I note that Moonhead is using a modest little Superlux amp which he preferred to the Questyle he once owned!
> The common wisdom here seems to be that the HD 800s need a lot of investment in amplification etc to reach their full potential. In the search for ultimate sound, I have been looking at the likes of the Schiit Ragnarok, Auralic Taurus and GD Audio Master 9 which are well regarded here. I have no opportunity to audition them here unfortunately. Am I failing to experience the HD 800s full potential with my present equipment? They sound pretty damn good already!


 
 I use EQ. Just about every amp sounds terrific. But I guess that is not the goal for many is it?.


----------



## JaZZ

gr8desire said:


> I use EQ. Just about every amp sounds terrific. But I guess that is not the goal for many is it?


 
  
 Equalizing is boring. And too cheap a solution. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Imagine everyone would do it!


----------



## Gr8Desire

jazz said:


> Equalizing is boring. And too cheap a solution.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Very boring and audiophile unworthy .

 Virtually every recording ever made has used EQ.  Why should I miss out?


----------



## natemact

thenewguy007 said:


> Seems there is no place to buy a Questyle CMA800r at the moment.
> 
> Ditto for the ECP




Just in case you're interested there's a CMA800R for sale on CAM:

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649208000-questyle-cma-800r/


----------



## Arnotts

thenewguy007 said:


> Seems there is no place to buy a Questyle CMA800r at the moment.
> Ditto for the ECP L2.
> 
> I read several posts saying the Mjolnir 2 at $850 doesn't pair well with the HD800 from several posters on this thread.
> ...


 

 There's  pretty much nobody (without any potential vested interests) who has heard a large variety of recommended amps with the HD800 that still recommends the V200.
  
 Stop being in the state of mind where more money leads to better sound quality. It's that simple - just stop. It's not true. That's the very mindset that allows companies to produce sub-par products, heavily mark them up and allow the confirmation bias of audiophools to do the marketing for them.
  
 I own both the Valhalla 2 and the H10. If you're spending $350 to try and get the best out of your HD800's, then the Valhalla 2 is undoubtedly the better option. If you're using a variety of headphones with different power requirements, then the H10 is a better option (the Valhalla 2 is designed specifically to excel with high impedance headphones, while the H10 is designed to be able to adequately drive everything).


----------



## olor1n

thenewguy007 said:


> I read several posts saying the Mjolnir 2 at $850 doesn't pair well with the HD800 from several posters on this thread.
> So the Valhalla 2 at $350 is supposed to do better?




I have scoured this and other forums looking for credible impressions of how the Mjolnir 2 fares with the HD800 and nowhere have I read that it doesn't pair well. Care to point out the "several posts" that proclaim it as a poor pairing?


----------



## Moonhead

I have owned both Mjolnir and Questyle and Schiit is very poorly design amp with somewhat lose buttons especially when adjusting Volume and it was Way to Bright to be considered natural, very ethcy and bad parring with both HD800 & HE6, Should be great with Audeze thought!

Questyle is one solid tank AMP that screams quality in every Way with a very smooth volume control that makes the Schiit prdouct look like a joke!
Pairs excellent with HD800 solid low bass and smooth non fatiguing treble, I only sold mine because I got the Stax itch. 

If there is a Mjolnir2 I haven't listen to it or care for it, Mjolnir & Questyle are as opposite as can be!


----------



## Thenewguy007

arnotts said:


> There's  pretty much nobody (without any potential vested interests) who has heard a large variety of recommended amps with the HD800 that still recommends the V200.
> I own both the Valhalla 2 and the H10. If you're spending $350 to try and get the best out of your HD800's, then the Valhalla 2 is undoubtedly the better option. If you're using a variety of headphones with different power requirements, then the H10 is a better option (the Valhalla 2 is designed specifically to excel with high impedance headphones, while the H10 is designed to be able to adequately drive everything).


 
  
 Seems the V200 was the most talked about 5+ years ago in this thread & then people started talking about the Vahalla 2 as the go to amp in the recent years.
  


olor1n said:


> I have scoured this and other forums looking for credible impressions of how the Mjolnir 2 fares with the HD800 and nowhere have I read that it doesn't pair well. Care to point out the "several posts" that proclaim it as a poor pairing?


 
  
 I am writing down any & every post/quote from this thread that reviewed or compared any amps worth mentioning to try & narrow it down..
 (didn't write down the names of the people who made these quotes though)
  
  
*Negative Mjolnir quotes:*

 "Mjolnir - Sound signature where beyond neutral and overly bright in the treble, IMO."

 "That amp just looks, feels and sounds like a joke compering it to Questyle, IMO"

 "havnet tried Valhalla, but Mjolnir/Gungnir is a Hugh pile of crap with HD800.. Way way to bright to even be considered neutral"
  
 ranked 5th in a list - "Schiit Mjolnir (too aggressive for my taste)"
  
 "VI+ doesnt have a fat bassy sound like say the V200, it's a bit thinner and more neutral sounding, but mjolnir sounds too thin for me, quite an anemic bass"
  
 "I heard slightly bright to piercing sound from the following amps: (amongst a list)
 ...Schiit Mjolnir"
  
 "Poor Matches: (amongst a list)
 ...Schiit Mjolnir (fatiguing)"
  
  
*Positive Mjolnir quotes:*
  
 "I prefer the Mjolnir. The Mjolnir has way more slam than the GSX2, more than anything else - perhaps only beaten by the Dynahi.
 Mjolnir has way better macrodynamics and is rather amazing in the microdynamics - probably has something to do with the cybertron output stage."
  
  
 "Mjolnir vs ifi micro
 -Right off the bat, the bass really stood out to me as being better in basically every way
 -The Mojolnir turned the HD800s into head subwoofers while the iFi was much hazier and not as deep. The treble was clearer/less fuzzy than my iFi.
 -greater differences between high and low volume material (macrodynamics). It's especially noticeable on more compressed recordings. Modern pop songs sound like they're entirely at the same volume and have absolutely no depth with the iFi,
 but the Mojo brings out the small amount of dynamics and depth that are there.
 -The iFi sounded bright and harsh. Songs that were bass monsters with the Mojo had one-note, thin bass on the iFi."


----------



## olor1n

Those are comments about the original Mjolnir. There is a newly released Mjolnir 2, which is a balanced tube amp (that can also utilise Schiit's new solid state tubes). The original Mjolnir was purely solid state.

Mj2 impressions here - http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/complete-schiitshow#LtUH7d5o6rVJyLZu.97

...and on another forum that cannot be named here.

I've owned the original Mjolnir and did not find it to be a terrible match for the HD800 - once I got my dac right.

I've also owned the Schiit Ragnarok which has amazing clarity and a smoothness in the upper registers that matches very well with the HD800.

The article I linked to above states that the Mj2 is a clear improvement on the first MJ and is closer to the Ragnarok than it is to its original iteration.

Seems like a fine mid-tier amp to me.


----------



## Moonhead

Well thats a different story then as the new design incl. tubes which could be a good thing, a lot of people swear to valve amps with HD800. 
 Just sad they feel so flimsy and cheaply made.


----------



## jsgraha

Actually for me, the original reason that I bought HD800 about two years ago, was after hearing it with schiit mjolnir at my local store. I realized how this headphone could do, great staging, warm mids and the bass was so satisfying. The overall presentation was a bit too forward for my taste, but pairing it with a laid back source, I supposed it would be nice.
  
 Looking forward to audition the new mjolnir ...


----------



## MattTCG

olor1n said:


> Those are comments about the original Mjolnir. There is a newly released Mjolnir 2, which is a balanced tube amp (that can also utilise Schiit's new solid state tubes). The original Mjolnir was purely solid state.
> 
> Mj2 impressions here - http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/complete-schiitshow#LtUH7d5o6rVJyLZu.97
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've only communicated with one guy who has heard the mjo2 with the hd800 in person. He said that if you didn't like the original mjo with the 800 (and I didn't) then you probably wouldn't like it with the new mjo. The signature of the amp, according to him, was still very similar. Of course tubes would play a big part or at least they should. 
  
 Keep in mind a few things. This is just one guys opinion and I haven't heard the amp. Also I like the hd800 and I'd very much like to order the mjo 2 as it fits so many of my criteria. So yes, I'm a huge schiit fan. I'll have to wait to get more opinions though. 
  
@Moonhead ...poor quality on Schiit amps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Seriously? Or was that a joke based on the tank like build quality of their products. Surely it was a joke. I own the Questyle and many Schiit amps and just bought the Gungnir MB. They have all, each and every one that I've owned been incredibly well built. Questle is good also but I'd still rank that Schiit builds better.


----------



## rawrster

I had the hd800 and mjolnir a few years ago and really liked it. That was my main amp for them and found them to be nice. The build quality was solid similar to their other products. I can agree that the amp had a slight brightness but I didn't find it overbearing. The mjolnir 2 would be worth an audition for me. I already found my amp so won't be in the market for it.


----------



## Moonhead

The newly bought Mjolnir I've owned came with scratches poor assembly in corners and every button felt lose and of very poor quality, as I said next to Questyle was like compering a Fiat to a Ferrari 
Schiit products a way to hyped, IMHO!


----------



## kimvictor

I just heard the EL8, and I think it's a great headphones to go with HD800. It's quite musical, which is different from HD800(not to say that HD800s aren't freakin amazing). I almost spent a whole month's salary on an amp and EL8(open back) impulsively. It was scary.


----------



## pearljam50000

So...would you people say that the HD800 are the most Analytical headphones, most studio monitor like? (Analytical in a good way of course...)


----------



## Gr8Desire

kimvictor said:


> I just heard the EL8, and I think it's a great headphones to go with HD800. It's quite musical, which is different from HD800(not to say that HD800s aren't freakin amazing). I almost spent a whole month's salary on an amp and EL8(open back) impulsively. It was scary.


 
  
 I have the HD800 for home listening and EL-8C (closed) for mobile listening. I think they compliment each other fairly well.  

 The EL-8Cs are a bit lacking in treble extension and miss some of the HD800's clarity. The EL-8C has a surprisingly wide soundstage.  Overall, a good compromise since I listen to EL-8Cs in less than perfect environments where the high-end and clarity will be affected anyways.

 After buying the HD800s, I sold my Hifiman HE-560s. I rated their sound somewhere in-between the HD800 and EL-8C.


----------



## rawrster

pearljam50000 said:


> So...would you people say that the HD800 are the most Analytical headphones, most studio monitor like? (Analytical in a good way of course...)


 
  
 I would say if you wanted to analyze the music or breakdown what one instrument is playing you can. Of course I don't know if this is something that is wanted (or not wanted) in studio applications since that's not something I've done before. 
  
 For me it's a mostly neutral headphone where nothing stands out too much.


----------



## kimvictor

gr8desire said:


> I have the HD800 for home listening and EL-8C (closed) for mobile listening. I think they compliment each other fairly well.
> 
> The EL-8Cs are a bit lacking in treble extension and miss some of the HD800's clarity. The EL-8C has a surprisingly wide soundstage.  Overall, a good compromise since I listen to EL-8Cs in less than perfect environments where the high-end and clarity will be affected anyways.
> 
> After buying the HD800s, I sold my Hifiman HE-560s. I rated their sound somewhere in-between the HD800 and EL-8C.


 
 I'm really tempted to pull the trigger on either the EL-8 closed or open. They were both pretty damn impressive. It's a different kind of enjoyable sound compared to the 800. I never thought a portable headphone could pull off such wide sound.
  
 It's definitely not as resolving or clear as HD800, but no headphones are, unless you get a pair of Stax or something.
  
 I really want a pair. Too bad I get paid minimum wage.


----------



## Arnotts

pearljam50000 said:


> So...would you people say that the HD800 are the most Analytical headphones, most studio monitor like? (Analytical in a good way of course...)


 
 To me, yes, the HD800's are EXTREMELY analytical headphones. This is not a positive or negative quality, it just depends what you're looking for.
  
 I personally have found four headphones that complement each other perfectly for my tastes and various applications: HD800's, LCD-X's, HD650's and DT250's.
  
 Now, all that's left is perfecting the signal chain for these headphones. I believe I'll have it close to perfect with the Schiit Gungnir Multibit + Cavalli Liquid Carbon and the Audiolab M-DAC + Schiit Valhalla 2.


----------



## kimvictor

A question for other HD800 owners!
  
 Have any of you tried the ifi iTube with the HD800? I'm planning on buying one, hoping to make the HD800 perhaps tiny bit more musical.


----------



## mikoss

Schiit is over hyped and the EL8's are good. I'm just going to have to go ahead and completely disagree... As for the 800's, very resolving and detailed. Fairly neutral- they do a fine job of highlighting the good or bad of the source and gear that feeds them.


----------



## DGCFAD

thenewguy007 said:


> Seems there is no place to buy a Questyle CMA800r at the moment.
> Ditto for the ECP L2.
> 
> I read several posts saying the Mjolnir 2 at $850 doesn't pair well with the HD800 from several posters on this thread.
> ...


 
 There are actually plenty of places to buy a Questyle CMA800R, contact info@questyleaudio.com for dealer information outside of North America. Contact info@audiopathways.com for dealer information in Canada, and info_usa@questyleaudio.com or questyleusa@gmail.com for the rest of North America


----------



## Thenewguy007

Well back on the grind.
 Last night I left off on page 990. Only 400 or so more pages to go until I'm all caught up.
  
 Kinda frustrating, every $200-$1,000 amp recommendation I read in this thread so far, was eventually dropped for by those people recommending them & they bought a $3,000-$5,000 end game amp/dac.
 I can't & _won't,_ at least in the foreseeable future, spend $3,000 to $5,000 on JUST A HEADPHONE AMPLIFIER.
  
 So every post in this thread that has nothing but good things to say, with absolutely no negatives, about the amp pairing with the HD800 are those in the $3,000+ range.
  
  
 Violetric V200 & Schiit Valhalla 2 are the ones that keep coming up over & over throughout the years that people keep mentioning as a good pair.
 Just not sure how reliable they are, as those recommendation are years old & could be outdated or if those people found something a step above them (but still under the $2,000 price range).
  
  
 I also read through all the separate Hd800 amp recommendations (most were ike 5-6 years old).


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Another great choice is the Auralic Tarus Mk2. Great amp in balanced or SE. Detailed, but not hot, great soundstage, driving bass and looks good as well.


----------



## listen4joy

anybody has experience with the Lovely Cube amp with hd800?


----------



## jlbrach

I am using a vorzuge pure II+ with my AK240 and my HD800 and i am amazed how powerful this wonderful little amp is...when i use the middle gain position I barely have to go to 9 o'clock on the volume setting before i max out the volume i need!I can even get by with the lower setting if I choose.The 800 requires a fair bit of power so i am really impressed...and most importantly it sounds great!


----------



## johnjen

I still have my Mojo amp, as a backup to The Rok, for my 800's.

I really liked what the Mojo does for the 800's.

And the key to feeding the 800's is a well matched source.
If your dac or analog source has 'issues' you will hear them, in detail, on 800's.

JJ


----------



## Thenewguy007

wildcatsare1 said:


> Another great choice is the Auralic Tarus Mk2. Great amp in balanced or SE. Detailed, but not hot, great soundstage, driving bass and looks good as well.


 
  
 A $2,000 balanced amp. Would have to buy a balanced DAC to match & the price would be nearing $3,000 again.

 Definitely not something I can consider.


----------



## Failed Engineer

thenewguy007 said:


> Violetric V200 & Schiit Valhalla 2 are the ones that keep coming up over & over throughout the years that people keep mentioning as a good pair.
> Just not sure how reliable they are, as those recommendation are years old & could be outdated or if those people found something a step above them (but still under the $2,000 price range).
> 
> 
> I also read through all the separate Hd800 amp recommendations (most were ike 5-6 years old).


 
  
 The best sub-$1000 amp for the HD800 is the DIY Torpedo.  The kit is not that hard to complete.
  
 http://www.beezar.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=153


----------



## Thenewguy007

failed engineer said:


> The best sub-$1000 amp for the HD800 is the DIY Torpedo.  The kit is not that hard to complete.
> 
> http://www.beezar.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=153


 

 Better than the Bottlehead Crack with Speedball DIY kit?


----------



## inseconds99

failed engineer said:


> The best sub-$1000 amp for the HD800 is the DIY Torpedo.  The kit is not that hard to complete.
> 
> http://www.beezar.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=153


 
 I can safely say I have never heard of this amp. I am curious though, still in a hunt for a sub 1,000 dac/amp preferably as a combo as I have limited space.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I like the CEntrance HiFi M8, which has Wolfson DAC and amp with high/low gain, 1/2/8 ohm output impedance, balanced/single-ended output, and fits in your shirt pocket, to drive the HD800.  I also have the HDVD 800, which is a $2,000 desktop amp and does not fit under the $1,000 threashold being discussed;  the $700 HiFi M8 does.


----------



## Failed Engineer

thenewguy007 said:


> Better than the Bottlehead Crack with Speedball DIY kit?


 
  
 Yes.  For those that are in the HD800 is sterile camp (for the record I am not), the Torpedo brings out musicality and an ease of delivery that the Crack/Speedball don't.  There is a lack of grain on the torpedo that you still hear on the Crack.
  
 However, the Crack is more versatile and can drive orthos.  The Torpedo will not do orthos well.
  
 If you are looking for only an HD800 amp, you can't do better under a grand.  I'd also suggest the Headamp GS-1 which used comes in around $700-$800, but those are hard to come by and unabashedly make the HD800s strong points stronger, and don't try to correct any "flaws" of the headphone.  The GS-1/HD800 combo is not for most people.
  
 Depends on if you feel the HD800 needs correction or not.


----------



## Zoom25

inseconds99 said:


> I can safely say I have never heard of this amp. I am curious though, still in a hunt for a sub 1,000 dac/amp preferably as a combo as I have limited space.


 

 Dangerous Music Source. See if you can audition it locally. Pairs exceptionally well with HD 800.


----------



## MattTCG

failed engineer said:


> Yes.  For those that are in the HD800 is sterile camp (for the record I am not), the Torpedo brings out musicality and an ease of delivery that the Crack/Speedball don't.  There is a lack of grain on the torpedo that you still hear on the Crack.
> 
> *However, the Crack is more versatile and can drive orthos*.  The Torpedo will not do orthos well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nope...not really. Unless you count pm-1/2/3 or he400s,which I don't because ANY amp will drive those hp's.


----------



## rawrster

Just a fyi but the taurus can be bought discounted pretty easily. There's one going for 1200 in the fs and when I was buying mine I found a dealer display model and also another seller selling at a great price. 

I have not heard the torpedo however the Crack and speedball does sound nice and you can often find that amp in the fs. It's also much less than 2k.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thenewguy007 said:


> A $2,000 balanced amp. Would have to buy a balanced DAC to match & the price would be nearing $3,000 again.
> 
> 
> Definitely not something I can consider.




I have it matched with a "Vintage" R2R DAC, a Monarchy M22B. Not all that expensive and sounds phenomenal. The new M24 can be had for $1,200.


----------



## Thenewguy007

ruthieandjohn said:


> I like the CEntrance HiFi M8, which has Wolfson DAC and amp with high/low gain, 1/2/8 ohm output impedance, balanced/single-ended output, and fits in your shirt pocket, to drive the HD800.  I also have the HDVD 800, which is a $2,000 desktop amp and does not fit under the $1,000 threashold being discussed;  the $700 HiFi M8 does.


 
  
 I always wanted to try them ever since I saw them in the InnerFidelity Wall of Fame for portable amps
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame-headphone-amplifiers
  
 That said, I have the newer iFi Mico iDSD, very well review portable dual DAC & amp combo that is price comparably to the M8. I feel it would be a side grade if I buy it.
  
 The iDSD does nothing to tame the painful treble spike & harshness of the Beyer T1 (pairs _fantastically _with the LCD2 though).
 I used the iDSD with a Schiit Asgard 2, which is a warmer amp & did lower the peaks & shrill sounds of the T1, but not close to fully taming them.
  
 I'm convinced after having the Micro iDSD, that I would need a stronger desktop amp than something that is available in a portable package to fix the problems.
  
 Just looking for an amp or dac that can 100% smooth out any painful, harsh, treble spikes & sibilance of the HD800 (and T1 by extension), while not affecting or  congesting the soundstage/imaging. If anything, I want the amp to expand the holographic sound!
  
*If there was a solid state portable amp that can do that & still be under $1,000, I would jump on it in a second!*


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thenewguy007 said:


> I always wanted to try them ever since I saw them in the InnerFidelity Wall of Fame for portable amps
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame-headphone-amplifiers
> 
> That said, I have the newer iFi Mico iDSD, very well review portable dual DAC & amp combo that is price comparably to the M8. I feel it would be a side grade if I buy it.
> ...


 
 Look no farther than Vorzuge then, great sounding amps, probably the best portables out there! Also, if you can find a used Apex Glacier, a great little amp as well.


----------



## Thenewguy007

wildcatsare1 said:


> Look no farther than Vorzuge then, great sounding amps, probably the best portables out there! Also, if you can find a used Apex Glacier, a great little amp as well.


 
  
 Really?
 Any clue on how it compare to other portable amp/dacs like the Micro iDSD, HiFi M8, Geek Out 2?


----------



## MattTCG

thenewguy007 said:


> Really?
> Any clue on how it compare to other portable amp/dacs like the Micro iDSD, HiFi M8, Geek Out 2?


 
  
 I was stunned at how good the ifi stack was with the hd800. micro idsd, ican and itube. I had no idea that they were making gears that had that kind of potential. You think that the 800 can't do sub bass? Grab that stack and turn the x-bass to medium...then to high...then pick your jaw off the table.


----------



## RUMAY408

My sage advice after about 2 years with the HD800, buy in @ whatever HP amp you can afford.
  
 The HD800 scales with the quality of the HP amp, so even at the lower end, they sound fine as you scale up the HD800 gets better and better.
  
 Like falling in love over and over again


----------



## shabta

rumay408 said:


> My sage advice after about 2 years with the HD800, buy in @ whatever HP amp you can afford.
> 
> The HD800 scales with the quality of the HP amp, so even at the lower end, they sound fine as you scale up the HD800 gets better and better.
> 
> Like falling in love over and over again


 
 And buy used so you get more for your money


----------



## longbowbbs

rumay408 said:


> My sage advice after about 2 years with the HD800, buy in @ whatever HP amp you can afford.
> 
> The HD800 scales with the quality of the HP amp, so even at the lower end, they sound fine as you scale up the HD800 gets better and better.
> 
> Like falling in love over and over again


 
 +1


----------



## ruthieandjohn

thenewguy007 said:


> I always wanted to try them ever since I saw them in the InnerFidelity Wall of Fame for portable amps
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame-headphone-amplifiers
> 
> That said, I have the newer iFi Mico iDSD, very well review portable dual DAC & amp combo that is price comparably to the M8. I feel it would be a side grade if I buy it.
> ...



Forgot to mention that the HiFi M8 also provides two levels of (gentle) bass boost / suppression and likewise two levels of treble adjustment. Might help.


----------



## Thenewguy007

No one here had any experience with the LittleDot VI+ or VIII+ OTL amps? They are like $800+, but I heard they compare with $3,000 American or European amps? Haven't really put serious thought into them since I haven't heard too many Sennheiser owners talk about them.
  
  
 If there were a few owners here that owned them & gave solid recommendations for them, it would be great.


----------



## Aktersnurra (May 1, 2017)

A


----------



## Redge78

thenewguy007 said:


> No one here had any experience with the LittleDot VI+ or VIII+ OTL amps? They are like $800+, but I heard they compare with $3,000 American or European amps? Haven't really put serious thought into them since I haven't heard too many Sennheiser owners talk about them.
> 
> 
> If there were a few owners here that owned them & gave solid recommendations for them, it would be great.


 
 Have a look here :
http://www.head-fi.org/t/522099/little-dot-mk-vi-little-dot-mk-viii-se-owners-unite/2010#post_11880846
  
 In short, the MK8se is a excellent match for the HD800, and it's stellar when it's modded.


----------



## devilboy

thenewguy007 said:


> Well back on the grind.
> Last night I left off on page 990. Only 400 or so more pages to go until I'm all caught up.
> 
> Kinda frustrating, every $200-$1,000 amp recommendation I read in this thread so far, was eventually dropped for by those people recommending them & they bought a $3,000-$5,000 end game amp/dac.
> ...




Your problem is that you want a $1,000 amp to "do it all" so to speak. No amp, regardless of cost, does it all........ever. Now, usually the more you spend, the more that amp will do. Everyone gets upgradeitis, which is why you see people getting rid of their less expensive amps. It's the madness we're in. 
You just need to pull the trigger on something already. Buy used so if you don't like it you won't lose money.


----------



## devilboy

And are you really reading every page? Dude...... stop.


----------



## whirlwind

I am soon going to get to experience my HD800 & HD650 on my new amp.....Glenn told me that it will be done soon, a little more wiring to do.
  
 I am pretty stoked to hear it and I have been buying tubes for the last 6 months so i will have plenty of rolling options
  
 Here are the pics that he sent me.
  

  

  
 If it sounds as good as it looks, I am in for a fun time


----------



## devilboy

whirlwind said:


> I am soon going to get to experience my HD800 & HD650 on my new amp.....Glenn told me that it will be done soon, a little more wiring to do.
> 
> I am pretty stoked to hear it and I have been buying tubes for the last 6 months so i will have plenty of rolling options
> 
> ...


 

 Gorgeous, and yes, it looks like someone is in for some fun!


----------



## jsgraha

thenewguy007 said:


> I always wanted to try them ever since I saw them in the InnerFidelity Wall of Fame for portable amps
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame-headphone-amplifiers
> 
> That said, I have the newer iFi Mico iDSD, very well review portable dual DAC & amp combo that is price comparably to the M8. I feel it would be a side grade if I buy it.
> ...




I doubt you can find this dream amp under $1000. And the synergy of hd800 setup not only with the amp, but also with the source, either analog or digital.

IMO, better look for other headphone than hd800. Having hd800 was like a journey to me. I enjoy the journey, whether tweaking with mod, try or audition or even trades source or amp etc. It's been almost 3 years and counting. There's no instant result. 

My advise would be getting other phone. Lcd-x would be nice. Soundstage is quite big, easier to match, great bass and smooth treble. Buy one used maybe, so it could be sold without much loss.


----------



## Sorrodje

+1 @jsgraha . Similar experience here.


----------



## rawrster

thenewguy007 said:


> Just looking for an amp or dac that can 100% smooth out any painful, harsh, treble spikes & sibilance of the HD800 (and T1 by extension), while not affecting or  congesting the soundstage/imaging. If anything, I want the amp to expand the holographic sound!
> 
> *If there was a solid state portable amp that can do that & still be under $1,000, I would jump on it in a second!*


 
  
 I don't find there to be any painful, harsh, treble spikes & sibilance with any HD800 I've owned. I've had 3 with different S/N from around the time it was released, a few years ago and my current one is around one year old. The only times I've had any of those symptoms were when I had subpar gear or my music files were not good.


----------



## mcteague

rawrster said:


> I don't find there to be any painful, harsh, treble spikes & sibilance with any HD800 I've owned. I've had 3 with different S/N from around the time it was released, a few years ago and my current one is around one year old. The only times I've had any of those symptoms were when I had subpar gear or my music files were not good.


 

 My findings as well. I have a lowly Schitt Audio Asgard 2 paired with my HD800s and find no sibilance nor harshness. As I have mentioned before, I listen to well recorded CDs and mostly Classical music. Even some of the 60s era rock I have is not unpleasant with this setup.
  
 Tim


----------



## Wildcatsare1

The only music I get any sibilance with my 800 is recently recorded rock. That is with the stock cable and without mods. 

Classical, jazz, acoustic, classic rock are all spectacular!


----------



## Pianist

mcteague said:


> My findings as well. I have a lowly Schitt Audio Asgard 2 paired with my HD800s and find no sibilance nor harshness. As I have mentioned before, I listen to well recorded CDs and mostly Classical music. Even some of the 60s era rock I have is not unpleasant with this setup.
> 
> Tim


 

 +1 HD800 treble is not harsh or sibilant in itself.
  
 I think the headphones are just ultra revealing and very unforgiving of low quality recordings - you will simply hear everything that's there on a recording, regardless of whether you like it or not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 With HD800 I try to find recordings that sound great on them like with no other headphone I've experienced. I find that recording quality makes the biggest difference with these headphones, while amps, DACs and even bitrate make less of a difference. As long as the bitrate is at least 96 kbps, HD800 can sound great with high quality music, even on pretty low end equipment. Even out of my Fiio X1, HD800 still easily distinguishes music by its recording quality and headphones still sound very satisfying out of the X1 to my ears with quality music - better than with bad recordings and my STX or Fiio X5 + Objective 2.


----------



## mrmarano

I also ordered replacement pads that were back-ordered. Sennheiser estimated two months.
  
 They arrived in about three weeks.


----------



## Moonhead

Thanks Pianist i agree with everything, finally someone who gets it!


----------



## Taowolf51

moonhead said:


> The newly bought Mjolnir I've owned came with scratches poor assembly in corners and every button felt lose and of very poor quality, as I said next to Questyle was like compering a Fiat to a Ferrari
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's pretty surprising, I'm sure if you told Schiit they'd replace it for you.
 I picked up a Valhalla 2 from them and the build quality is excellent, it's extremely heavy, the PCB looks very clean and well put together, and everything is very tight with no rattling at all. It doesn't have as thick of a chassis as something like Woo, but for the price the build quality is pretty nice.
  


thenewguy007 said:


> Violetric V200 & Schiit Valhalla 2 are the ones that keep coming up over & over throughout the years that people keep mentioning as a good pair.
> Just not sure how reliable they are, as those recommendation are years old & could be outdated or if those people found something a step above them (but still under the $2,000 price range).


 
  
 The Valhalla 2 isn't even a year old yet, so it's likely the things people are saying about it are pretty current.
  
 What are you looking for in an amp?


----------



## fudgebucket27

I installed anax mod 1.0 last night and I just gotta say wow. It's like a totally new headphone . I'm really preferring the sound compared to unanaxed. I was scared it would take too much away but it shaved off just the right amount. When I can find the right rug liner I'll try out 2.0.


----------



## JaZZ

fudgebucket27 said:


> I installed anax mod 1.0 last night and I just gotta say wow. It's like a totally new headphone . I'm really preferring the sound compared to unanaxed. I was scared it would take too much away but it shaved off just the right amount. When I can find the right rug liner I'll try out 2.0.


 
  
 Why not try black velvet?! To my ears it offers the best sonic result (although not the most «professional» look).


----------



## fudgebucket27

jazz said:


> Why not try black velvet?! To my ears it offers the best sonic result (although not the most «professional» look).




Thats pretty interesting actually thanks for that.


----------



## Mach3

jazz said:


> Why not try black velvet?! To my ears it offers the best sonic result (although not the most «professional» look).


 

 To me the Anax 1.0/2.0 mod seems to dampen some of the airy/micro details, I much preferred the black velvet.


----------



## Thenewguy007

rawrster said:


> I don't find there to be any painful, harsh, treble spikes & sibilance with any HD800 I've owned. I've had 3 with different S/N from around the time it was released, a few years ago and my current one is around one year old. The only times I've had any of those symptoms were when I had subpar gear or my music files were not good.


 
  
 I've read conflicting reports on this. For some don't hear it or don't mind it, others have said they find it distracting.
  
  


jsgraha said:


> IMO, better look for other headphone than hd800. Having hd800 was like a journey to me. I enjoy the journey, whether tweaking with mod, try or audition or even trades source or amp etc. It's been almost 3 years and counting. There's no instant result.
> 
> My advise would be getting other phone. Lcd-x would be nice. Soundstage is quite big, easier to match, great bass and smooth treble. Buy one used maybe, so it could be sold without much loss.


 
  
  
 I been doing my research.
  
 Top tier soundstage: Sennheiser  HD800
 Top tier full bass body: LCD 2 Rev.1
 Top tier bass impact/rumble: Fostex TH900
 Top tier imaging accuracy: Beyerdynamic T1
 Top tier clarity/resolution: Hifiman HE1000
 Top tier mids - Probably one of the flagship Grado
  
 Any combination of  those aspects in one headphone would be in the $3,000-$5,000 range headphones.
  


devilboy said:


> And are you really reading every page? Dude...... stop.


 
  
 I'm on page 1,120,  almost caught up.
  


taowolf51 said:


> The Valhalla 2 isn't even a year old yet, so it's likely the things people are saying about it are pretty current.
> 
> What are you looking for in an amp?


 
  
 If I do spend $1,000, I want the soundstage & imaging to be noticeably improved & any brittleness, harshness or overly brightness to the the highs be smoothed out.
 I know it is impossible for any amp/dac to give the HD800 the bass of the LCD2, so I am abandoning that dream.


----------



## Arnotts

thenewguy007 said:


> I've read conflicting reports on this. For some don't hear it or don't mind it, others have said they find it distracting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The bolded part reads like you've just read a whole bunch of random peoples' opinions on various headphones, then tried to come to some sort of conclusion on the best of each aspect of a headphones sound. The problem with this is that, depending on who you ask, you're going to get different answers. Your sample isn't representative of the truth.
  
 And just like @Taowolf51 said, the Valhalla 2 isn't even a year old yet...
  
 Your method of learning is, imo, very inefficient. Reading all the posts from 2012 or something really doesn't help much today.
  
 I don't mean to sound rude, but it honestly seems like you've done a LOT of reading and you're no better off because of it. I'll send you a PM.


----------



## punit

thenewguy007 said:


> I been doing my research.
> 
> Top tier soundstage: Sennheiser  HD800
> Top tier full bass body: LCD 2 Rev.1
> ...


 
 I have heard all of those HP's & do not agree with most of your assessment.  *No disrespect* but Just want to know if you have  heard them all or this is based on comments from the internet ?


----------



## thecrow

thenewguy007 said:


> If I do spend $1,000, I want the soundstage & imaging to be noticeably improved & any brittleness, harshness or overly brightness to the the highs be smoothedout.
> I know it is impossible for any amp/dac to give the HD800 the bass of the LCD2, so I am abandoning that dream.



From what I've experienced, read and where I'm at.....

Look at the anax mod. A lot of fans here. No doubt you've read about it over and over in this thread.

Woo amp wa2 (I'm looking at that for me) but more than $1000 plus tubes but that sounds like that can get you where you want to go. Perhaps other tube amps like little dot but I'm not too well versed in those. 

I currently have the soloist (with irdac). For the price I enjoy the overall detail, tight detailed lower end, rich mids and airy highs. But these highs can sometimes be a touch grainy, a little. 

Good luck in your search


----------



## DavidA

thenewguy007 said:


> I been doing my research.
> 
> Top tier soundstage: Sennheiser  HD800
> Top tier full bass body: LCD 2 Rev.1
> ...


 
 As @punit noted, I also would not agree with your list 100%.  The only headphone I can't comment about yet is the HE-1000 since I haven't heard it yet, will get to in a week when I'm at my friends house who has one.
  
 On spending $1000 and wanting the "soundstage & imaging to be noticeably improved and any brittleness, harshness or overly brightness to the highs be smoothed out" what are you comparing it to? and what sounds bright/harsh to you may actually sound ok to another since we all hear differently.  The reason that they are different opinions on what sounds good is the individual's hearing and also their preference which varies from person to person.
  
 I know that its not practical or possible to audition all headphone that you are interested in but the only thing that really matters is what sounds good to you.  If you find one that sounds good to you stick with it and if you feel that you want a different sound then start looking around and ask for a comparison to something that you have so you have a reference point to start at.  For me I just like the different sound signatures of different headphones and don't look for "upgrades" to any of my current headphones, its not worth stressing over IMO, I'd rather spend more time enjoying the music.


----------



## Thenewguy007

arnotts said:


> The bolded part reads like you've just read a whole bunch of random peoples' opinions on various headphones, then tried to come to some sort of conclusion on the best of each aspect of a headphones sound. The problem with this is that, depending on who you ask, you're going to get different answers. Your sample isn't representative of the truth.


 
  
  


punit said:


> I have heard all of those HP's & do not agree with most of your assessment.  *No disrespect* but Just want to know if you have  heard them all or this is based on comments from the internet ?


 
  
 This is true. Besides the LCD-2 & T1, I know nothing of the other headphones other than reading impressions & reviews. The general consensus I got from spending a few weeks reading up &  agreeing with people's opinions who also matched mine on what I thought of the LCD2 & T1.
  
 Until I try them all, I will not know for certain.
  
 It looks like I may play the auditioning game. Buying one flagship & selling the other until I come to a conclusion.
  
  
 It's going to be a long few months ahead for me.


----------



## johnjen

thenewguy007 said:


> I've read conflicting reports on this. For some don't hear it or don't mind it, others have said they find it distracting.
> 
> I been doing my research.
> 
> ...



One approach to jumping on the "top tier' bandwagon is to decide your choice of headphone will be the center piece of your system, and then build the rest of the system to 'properly' feed them.

This is an exercise in scaleability, as in, how well does your choice really scale when fed a better signal.

And if your goal is to achieve a benchmark system there are a few systems that can be obtained at a variety of price points.
I heard one at a local meet where the entire system cost ≈ $1000 and it was kick ass.
Of course it could be improved here and there for a few hundred more.

My point is, what is the goal of your desire for a system?

JJ
ps 800's when fed a highly scaled signal, will keep pace better, along with the very best of the TotL headphones available today. And yes it does take tweaking and fussing to find out just how far they will go into scalebility. So if tweaking isn't something you want to deal with, then keep this in mind.


----------



## devilboy

Pull the trigger on something already. 

You're just going to sell it sooner or later anyway because the price levell you're at for amps won't do the 800s justice and you're always going to think, "what if........"


----------



## johnjen

thenewguy007 said:


> snip
> I know it is impossible for any amp/dac to give the HD800 the bass of the LCD2, so I am abandoning that dream.


This simply does not match my experience, at all.

In fact the bass out of my 800's goes lower, with way more definition and detail and power than the LCD-X's I auditioned.

JJ


----------



## devilboy

johnjen said:


> This simply does not match my experience, at all.
> 
> In fact the bass out of my 800's goes lower, with way more definition and detail and power than the LCD-X's I auditioned.
> 
> JJ


Sorry to say this newguy but it appears that your research isn't giving you all the facts.


----------



## johnjen

I'd be interested in hearing what your experiences are.

Care to elaborate futher?

JJ


----------



## jsgraha

johnjen said:


> This simply does not match my experience, at all.
> 
> In fact the bass out of my 800's goes lower, with way more definition and detail and power than the LCD-X's I auditioned.
> 
> JJ


 
 I live with both of 800 & X in more than a year (till I upgrade the X to he1000), and I concur this. HD800 bass when properly amped from a good source to my ears were better than lcd bass (I live with lcd-2 rev 2 for a year and audition lcd-2 rev1). HD800 bass had more texture, resolution, deeper and better impact (though lcd bass felt more richer). Upgrading the source from audio-gd ref7 + sonicweld diverter to schiit yggy gain a better bass on my setup (among other things). But this gain was heard more on hd800 than to lcd-x, so I decided to sell the X.
  
 Still like the LCD-X though, it's one of a great phone on my book. Easy to match with amp as well.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I lived with the HEK for a week, have the HD800, HE560, and tried everything else on your list. I am new to the HD800, still tweaking. In my system the HEK is the best I have ever heard, but it isn't $1,500 better than the HD800 IMO.

I love my Taurus, but would like to add tubes to the mix. Was going to trade my Uber Bifrost towards a Kenzie Headamp but the seller backed out.

So Jazzz, JJ, and other 800 Old Hands, get a Valhalla 2or wait wait for a DNA to show up on the F/S Thread?


----------



## pearljam50000

In what ways the HE1000 is better than HD800?


wildcatsare1 said:


> I lived with the HEK for a week, have the HD800, HE560, and tried everything else on your list. I am new to the HD800, still tweaking. In my system the HEK is the best I have ever heard, but it isn't $1,500 better than the HD800 IMO.
> 
> I love my Taurus, but would like to add tubes to the mix. Was going to trade my Uber Bifrost towards a Kenzie Headamp but the seller backed out.
> 
> So Jazzz, JJ, and other 800 Old Hands, get a Valhalla 2or wait wait for a DNA to show up on the F/S Thread?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I felt the overal cohesiveness of its presentation and I prefer the bass on planars.
pearljam50000


----------



## Arnotts

johnjen said:


> This simply does not match my experience, at all.
> 
> In fact the bass out of my 800's goes lower, with way more definition and detail and power than the LCD-X's I auditioned.
> 
> JJ


 
  
 HD800's do have excellent, tight, detailed, punchy bass. But LCD-X's do it better, imo.


----------



## devilboy

Auditioned the X for two weeks against the 800. Kept the 800. Its bass was much more accurate, detailed and more "right". 
Everything had excess bass through the X. Very annoying. Cymbals had bass.


----------



## mikoss

devilboy said:


> Auditioned the X for two weeks against the 800. Kept the 800. Its bass was much more accurate, detailed and more "right".
> Everything had excess bass through the X. Very annoying. Cymbals had bass.


 
 Which amp were you using to drive both? Just wondering.


----------



## JaZZ

wildcatsare1 said:


> So Jazzz, JJ, and other 800 Old Hands, get a Valhalla 2or wait wait for a DNA to show up on the F/S Thread?


 
  
 Don't ask me that! You should have noticed that I'm a self-confessed amp opponent. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 More seriously: That's an attitude I can justify as a Hugo owner. But I'm the wrong person to ask this anyway, as I have no experience with the current Head-Fi favorites. Maybe a MicroZOTL 2 or a HeadAmp GS-X mk2 if you ask _jamato8_ or _Icebear_.


----------



## icebear

jazz said:


> Don't ask me that! You should have noticed that I'm a self-confessed amp opponent.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'd recommend to get a good (musical sounding with preferred style) source in the first place.
 An amp should not be a patch for some upstream issue.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Actually I love the Taurus Mk.2, I just miss having tubes in the house. Not "patching" but supplementing. 

Was thinking of the Valhalla 2, Crack/Speedball, or Icon Audio...


----------



## MattTCG

wildcatsare1 said:


> Actually I love the Taurus Mk.2, I just miss having tubes in the house. Not "patching" but supplementing.
> 
> Was thinking of the Valhalla 2, Crack/Speedball, or Icon Audio...


 
  
 For what headphone(s) ?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Matt, thanks, was thinking of adding tubes for my HD800's.


----------



## MattTCG

wildcatsare1 said:


> Matt, thanks, was thinking of adding tubes for my HD800's.


 
  
 Gotcha. Can't go wrong with Crack w/sb, or Valhalla 2. Crack will be more meaty and richer sounding and the Val 2 will be more resolving and transparent. Both are very good just different flavors. 
  
 Neither will compare to a good Woo amp IMO. And the Fisher 500c spanks them all.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Maybe I don't need an extra amp, listening to Lyle Lovett and his Large Band, "It's Not Big, It's Large" CD on the Monarchy>Taurus Mk. 2>HD800 Chain......wow, almost a religious experience!!!!!


----------



## johnjen

devilboy said:


> Auditioned the X for two weeks against the 800. Kept the 800. Its bass was much more accurate, detailed and more "right".
> Everything had excess bass through the X. Very annoying. Cymbals had bass.


What I noticed was the X's had generous bass but it seemed like it was all clumped together. The articulation and definition of the bass was smeared and grouped together, sorta like what happens in car audio, where a 50-100Hz bass boost is used for emphasis down low.

And granted my 'test' was one sided since I compared my modded 800's to stock X's.
So the X's may resolve better with a better cable etc. 

Even so, I never heard any hint of subsonic bass from the X's like I do from the 800's.

JJ


----------



## Taowolf51

thenewguy007 said:


> If I do spend $1,000, I want the soundstage & imaging to be noticeably improved & any brittleness, harshness or overly brightness to the the highs be smoothed out.
> I know it is impossible for any amp/dac to give the HD800 the bass of the LCD2, so I am abandoning that dream.


 
  
 Are you morally against using equalization? A parametric EQ can do a lot to help harshness and bass if applied correctly, allowing you to focus more on an amp with the soundstage you want. I used to own an LCD-2, and the bass on my FR-corrected HD800's is IMO better than my LCD-2's bass. More impactful and more textured. The highs on my HD800 are also very smooth, no sibilance, and no harshness unless the recording is *really* bad while still maintaining a lot of treble presence and great detail.
  


davida said:


> On spending $1000 and wanting the "soundstage & imaging to be noticeably improved and any brittleness, harshness or overly brightness to the highs be smoothed out" what are you comparing it to? and what sounds bright/harsh to you may actually sound ok to another since we all hear differently.  The reason that they are different opinions on what sounds good is the individual's hearing and also their preference which varies from person to person.
> 
> I know that its not practical or possible to audition all headphone that you are interested in but the only thing that really matters is what sounds good to you.  If you find one that sounds good to you stick with it and if you feel that you want a different sound then start looking around and ask for a comparison to something that you have so you have a reference point to start at.  For me I just like the different sound signatures of different headphones and don't look for "upgrades" to any of my current headphones, its not worth stressing over IMO, I'd rather spend more time enjoying the music.


 
  
 Agreed, very good points. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


jsgraha said:


> I live with both of 800 & X in more than a year (till I upgrade the X to he1000), and I concur this. HD800 bass when properly amped from a good source to my ears were better than lcd bass (I live with lcd-2 rev 2 for a year and audition lcd-2 rev1). HD800 bass had more texture, resolution, deeper and better impact (though lcd bass felt more richer).


 
  
 Agreed, Audeze's headphones are excellent when it comes to richness of sound, but I prefer the texture and impact of the HD800.


----------



## devilboy

mikoss said:


> Which amp were you using to drive both? Just wondering.


At the time it was a Burson Virtuoso using its internal Nos dac.


----------



## shabta

wildcatsare1 said:


> Actually I love the Taurus Mk.2, I just miss having tubes in the house. Not "patching" but supplementing.
> 
> Was thinking of the Valhalla 2, Crack/Speedball, or Icon Audio...


 
 Here's a vote for the Icon. You will need to upgrade the tubes, but in return you get effortless highs and bass slam. I haven't heard the crack with speedball but the Icon is definitely better than Valhalla or Crack alone. The only caveat is that in the US the Icon costs  more than in europe.


----------



## shultzee

shabta said:


> wildcatsare1 said:
> 
> 
> > Actually I love the Taurus Mk.2, I just miss having tubes in the house. Not "patching" but supplementing.
> ...


 

 Music Direct will bargain a little on the icon.   I had one.   You have to call them.


----------



## nephilim32

devilboy said:


> At the time it was a Burson Virtuoso using its internal Nos dac.




In my experience, Burson make fantastic amps. I've had the soloist for almost a year now and have no intentions of getting rid of it. An excellent pairing with the HD 800's. It's matching 'revealing' with 'revealing.' So much detail! I'm sure the virtuoso is no different.


----------



## jlbrach

i have both the HD800 and the LCD-3F's and i must admit as much as i love the audeze's and i do i find myself reaching for the 800's more often.There is something special about them,the spaciousness,the detail...i have had the audeze's for several months and as i said i loved them..i picked up a used pair of the 800's because i was curious about them and they have become my go to pair!


----------



## whirlwind

wildcatsare1 said:


> Matt, thanks, was thinking of adding tubes for my HD800's.


 
 Did you pull off the deal for the Kenzie ?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

No, the Seller pulled out. Something about his Son knocking it off the shelf. Then saying he won't sell it till he knows it's in perfect condition. Definitely his prerogative, so still searching. 

Now, how long did it take for Glenn to make your new Beautie?


----------



## whirlwind

It was a pretty long wait and the line was fairly long when I ordered mine....best thing is to pm Glenn and ask him how many people would be ahead of you.
  
 If you think you are interested , it would be best to get in line now, then if you change your mind, you would have plenty of time to cancel.


----------



## mikoss

devilboy said:


> At the time it was a Burson Virtuoso using its internal Nos dac.


 
 Would you say the WA2 is better at driving the 800's? I'm wondering, because I found the WA2 to lack resolution. It was nice, warm, rich and romantic sounding, especially with the 650's, but it left a lot to be desired as far as precision details with the 800's. I was wondering if you were using it with the planars, which account for them sounding overly bassy. I haven't found an OTL that I'd recommend with planars yet. As far as my upgrade from Woo amps, I found the Eddie Current Zana Deux to be a superb amp for both the 650's and 800's.


----------



## DavidA

shultzee said:


> Music Direct will bargain a little on the icon.   I had one.   You have to call them.


 
 Do they also handle warranty for the Icon?


----------



## inseconds99

I would love to be able to audition some amps and dacs with my hd800's. Unfortunately there is no where close to me that give me this ability. The reason I buy so much stuff from Amazon and only from them is the return policy. Unfortunately they don't sell many of these dacs/amps on Amazon for me to try that are recommended on these forums :mad:


----------



## HiAudio

I just placed order on HD800 and will receive it next week. It's an upgrade from HD650, RS220, and K712,
  
 If by any chance someone had used NuForce Icon HDP for the HD800 please reply as much as you can. This is the only headphone amp that I have. Does the NuForce Icon HDP have enough power the HD800? Would it be horrible for this combo? I will not have any $$$$ for a better amp suited for HD800 for a year and I do not want to buy a cheap amp at a few hundreds of $. But I do want to verify that the received HD800 is OK. Thanks in advance.


----------



## midnightwalker

hiaudio said:


> I just placed order on HD800 and will receive it next week. It's an upgrade from HD650, RS220, and K712,
> 
> If by any chance someone had used NuForce Icon HDP for the HD800 please reply as much as you can. This is the only headphone amp that I have. Does the NuForce Icon HDP have enough power the HD800? Would it be horrible for this combo? I will not have any $$$$ for a better amp suited for HD800 for a year and I do not want to buy a cheap amp at a few hundreds of $. But I do want to verify that the received HD800 is OK. Thanks in advance.


 
 Sad but Yes


----------



## Sennophile

I'm so enthused by the HD800 that I now have two sets of HD800 (one at work and one at home).
  
 Out of 10 DACs tested, only the *HDVD 800* gave me the sound I had always wished for from the HD800. The HDVD 800 widened the sound stage dramatically, both at lower and higher volumes.
  
 However, I had to change the cable and I'm using the Sennheiser balanced cable.  The cable made a big difference in the lower frequencies.  
  
 Good luck with the $$, but this combo is really excellent.


----------



## Sorrodje

hiaudio said:


> I just placed order on HD800 and will receive it next week. It's an upgrade from HD650, RS220, and K712,
> 
> If by any chance someone had used NuForce Icon HDP for the HD800 please reply as much as you can. This is the only headphone amp that I have. Does the NuForce Icon HDP have enough power the HD800? Would it be horrible for this combo? I will not have any $$$$ for a better amp suited for HD800 for a year and I do not want to buy a cheap amp at a few hundreds of $. But I do want to verify that the received HD800 is OK. Thanks in advance.


 
  
 Congrats. For your amp. I wouldn't worry so much. Maybe it sounds horrible compared to some best offers but who care if you can compare .  A good and cheap benchmark is the Schitt Vali . it's darn cheap and sounds really decent with the HD800 and the 650. 
  
 If you hate the HD800 with your current amp, I don't think another amp or DAC will make you love it suddenly. If you like the HD800 but want to see if there's some improvement : Valhalla 2 /BH Crack or Meier Corda Jazz for example.  Mid priced Amps with very good value  .


----------



## DavidA

inseconds99 said:


> I would love to be able to audition some amps and dacs with my hd800's. Unfortunately there is no where close to me that give me this ability. The reason I buy so much stuff from Amazon and only from them is the return policy. Unfortunately they don't sell many of these dacs/amps on Amazon for me to try that are recommended on these forums


 
 Same here, I would have figured that New York would have far more places that sell some of these.  Hawaii only has best by, w mart and k mart, only beats & bose, maybe a few sony here and there.  Did find a music store that had DT-150 and HD-598 but that was it.


----------



## Arnotts

sorrodje said:


> Congrats. For your amp. I wouldn't worry so much. Maybe it sounds horrible compared to some best offers but who care if you can compare .  A good and cheap benchmark is the Schitt Vali . it's darn cheap and sounds really decent with the HD800 and the 650.
> 
> If you hate the HD800 with your current amp, I don't think another amp or DAC will make you love it suddenly. If you like the HD800 but want to see if there's some improvement : Valhalla 2 /BH Crack or Meier Corda Jazz for example.  Mid priced Amps with very good value  .


 
 You've been using the Vali with TOTL headphones and a TOTL DAC for quite a while now. Do you have the urge to upgrade? I believe you were waiting for a DNA amp - is that still incoming?
  
 I own a Vali, but I found that both the balanced outputs of the M-DAC and the Valhalla 2 provided a significant improvement with the HD800's and HD650's.


----------



## Sorrodje

Oh Yeah,  I have the urge to upgrade. the Experience with the Vali is significantly inferior from what I got with the HE-9 and the Sonett and my daily listening enjoyment is not the same for sure. Indeed, my Stratus is coming and I hope it will sound as good as I hope, especially with the Theta I just bought to Negura. 
  
 The Point with the Vali is that the HD800 does not sound wrong (thin, lean , sterile, uninvolving , lack of focus and abnormally wide soundstage and all usual suspects) . It dos not sounds really good as I could hear with some better amps but at least not wrong. with the Vali, the HD800 sounds engaging and lively with a lack of refinement. then it's a good way to know how other amps sit.  For more money , I'd advice a Meier Corda Jazz for that purpose but.. the Vali is so darn cheap  . Maybe Magni 2 / 2 uber could be a good choice as well. I'll try the Beresford Capella to see if it can fit the bill and replace my Vali. 
  
 I assume the Val 2 is superior to its little brother indeed. Never tried myself. A Meier Corda Jazz is obviously superior to the Vali.  But for 100$... nothing to complain about. I paired the paired the Vali with different sources ( NFB 12, Beresford Caïman mkII , Ibasso Dzero MkII , Modi 1 , Totaldac A1 ) and the little piece of Schiit was transparent enough to let me hear differences. The best pairing was with a somewhat dark and/or smooth source ( NFB12 for example ) that tends to tame a bit the treble energy of the Vali. 
  
 That's only my personal experience


----------



## Arnotts

sorrodje said:


> Oh Yeah,  I have the urge to upgrade. the Experience with the Vali is significantly inferior to what I got with the HE-9 and the Sonett and my daily listening enjoyment is not the same for sure. Indeed, my Stratus is coming and I hope it will sound as good as I hope, especially with the Theta I just bought to Negura.
> 
> The Point with the Vali is that the HD800 does not sound wrong (thin, lean , sterile, uninvolving , lack of focus and abnormally wide soundstage and all usual suspects) . It dos not sounds really good as I could hear with some better amps but at least not wrong. with the Vali, the HD800 sounds engaging and lively with a lack of refinement. then it's a good way to know how other amps sit.  For more money , I'd advice a Meier Corda Jazz for that purpose but.. the Vali is so darn cheap  . Maybe Magni 2 / 2 uber could be a good choice as well. I'll try the Beresford Capella to see if it can fit the bill and replace my Vali.
> 
> ...


 
 I fully agree, for the money the Vali is quite amazing. Very resolving and very enjoyable. I actually intend to use it with my incoming Gungnir Multibit while I wait for the Liquid Carbon, and I have no doubt that it will perform well .
  
 I just knew that you were aware of the improvements that better amps would provide for the HD800's, which is why I was curious as to why you were still using the Vali. We just need to tell ourselves that good things come to those who wait


----------



## Sorrodje

Yea . I was in the camp of people who think that gear does not matter so much if not at all. Then I heard my HD800 on a Eddie Current Balancing Act + Totaldac D1 Dual system and it blew my mind. Trust me, i was really doubtful and reluctant to accept such conclusions but my ears told me that was the sound I was after .
  
 Hope the Theta + Stratus will bring me close to that achievement. 
  
 First experience of improvements was with the HD580. firts time I tried it with the Meier Corda Jazz , I understood that for some  headphones ( not all) , amp matters a lot.  I heard /owned/reviewed a bunch of headphones for whom amp and dac does not matter at all . But the Hi end Senn family ( HD6X0 headphones are somewhat Hi End in my experience) or the HE-6 are examples of headphones that need care for associated equipments.  Still in my Experience. 
  
 That's not to say it needs Expensive amp or source.  Expensive does not always means good in my little experience. 
  
 Last but not least point. what's good or not good is essentially a matter of what are the expectancies and tastes of the listener. Several HD800 owners here are perfectly happy with gear I wouldn't spend One hour with.


----------



## BobFiggins

arnotts said:


> I fully agree, for the money the Vali is quite amazing. Very resolving and very enjoyable. I actually intend to use it with my incoming Gungnir Multibit while I wait for the Liquid Carbon, and I have no doubt that it will perform well .


 
  
 After I get through my CIEM/IEM phase I plan to get back to my HD 800 setup. Looking to get a Gungnir Multibit to pair with Vali. Would love to hear your thoughts! Ever since I got Vali I've been so impressed by it, even sent the Valhalla 2 back! Part of me still wants another Valhalla 2 though, a very aggressive amp with great PRAT.


----------



## devilboy

mikoss said:


> Would you say the WA2 is better at driving the 800's? I'm wondering, because I found the WA2 to lack resolution. It was nice, warm, rich and romantic sounding, especially with the 650's, but it left a lot to be desired as far as precision details with the 800's. I was wondering if you were using it with the planars, which account for them sounding overly bassy. I haven't found an OTL that I'd recommend with planars yet. As far as my upgrade from Woo amps, I found the Eddie Current Zana Deux to be a superb amp for both the 650's and 800's.


My WA2 with all NOS tubes does not make me feel as though I'm lacking resolution at all with my 800s. 
All listening with the X was on the Burson Virtuoso. 
Eddie Current must be nice with the 800 would think.


----------



## shultzee

davida said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > Music Direct will bargain a little on the icon.   I had one.   You have to call them.
> ...


 

 Never had to use warranty so not sure .  They are the only USA dealer.


----------



## rawrster

davida said:


> Same here, I would have figured that New York would have far more places that sell some of these.  Hawaii only has best by, w mart and k mart, only beats & bose, maybe a few sony here and there.  Did find a music store that had DT-150 and HD-598 but that was it.


 
  
 If you mean NYC then there are plenty of stores that you can audition headphones that we talk about on head-fi.


hiaudio said:


> I just placed order on HD800 and will receive it next week. It's an upgrade from HD650, RS220, and K712,
> 
> If by any chance someone had used NuForce Icon HDP for the HD800 please reply as much as you can. This is the only headphone amp that I have. Does the NuForce Icon HDP have enough power the HD800? Would it be horrible for this combo? I will not have any $$$$ for a better amp suited for HD800 for a year and I do not want to buy a cheap amp at a few hundreds of $. But I do want to verify that the received HD800 is OK. Thanks in advance.


 
  
 I had the HDP a few years ago and thought it was pretty mediocre for the price. I believe it was 400-500 at the time. You should just wait until the HD800 arrives and then see if it's something you can live with or want an improvement down the line. I've always believed that one should buy the best headphone they can afford and go from there.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

sennophile said:


> I'm so enthused by the HD800 that I now have two sets of HD800 (one at work and one at home).
> 
> Out of 10 DACs tested, only the *HDVD 800* gave me the sound I had always wished for from the HD800. The HDVD 800 widened the sound stage dramatically, both at lower and higher volumes.
> 
> ...


 
 Can you indicate which other DACs you tested and compared to the HDVD 800?  I also have the HDVD 800 with my HD 800 and love it, but I am always curious in comparisons to other DACs.  
  
 Thanks!


----------



## hermosabeachdud

Hey guys,
  
 Just wanted to give a quick impressions of the new HD800 paired with the hdvd800 and balanced cables coming from a musician and not necessarily an audiophile.
  
 First off all I can say is WOW. These cans delivered exactly what I expected them to... as a musician I wanted something super accurate to bring me into the room so that I can get "involved" in the music, and they did that exceptionally.
  
 I don't know why everyone said bass is lacking with these because the bass gets STUIPID low with these and is VERY WELL BALANCED. 
  
 as far as bad recordings... I found these cans completely fine to listen to bad recordings. It is what it is, obviously its not as enjoyable as listening to good recordings.
  
 So I'd say as a _musician_, I really enjoyed these because they bring me into the room with the band and inspire my creativity!


----------



## elvergun

hermosabeachdud said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Just wanted to give a quick impressions of the new HD800 paired with the hdvd800 and balanced cables coming from a musician and not necessarily an audiophile.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for sharing.   Another satisfied customer. 
  
 As to people saying these lack bass...well, those who say this like tons of bass and anything that does not satisfy them is going to be bass light to them.     Kinda like a Lamborghini user saying that a Mustang is not a fast car because it is not as fast as a Veneno...or a Hennessey Venom owner saying that a Lamborghini is lacking speed because it is not as fast as his car.    Gotta love those subjective opinions.


----------



## hermosabeachdud

PS, one other thing to note. Yes these are very involving headphones, and as such, you get tired listening to them much faster than say apple earbuds...
  
 TO me its like driving my M3 on the limit, vs driving my dads toyota... obviously your going to get worn out much faster driving the M3!


----------



## Sennophile

I couldn't agree more.  I'm myself an ex-musician:  I used to play the piano at the Conservatory and am still today very moved by the touch of "romantic pianists".  No wonder great composers relied on the piano to sketch out their greater masterworks.
  
 The HD 800 really left me aghast from the very first moment I heard them.  I have proudly owned Sennheiser 580, 600 and 650 headphones.  I still cherish them today.  However, the HD 800 remain of a class of their own and still astound me every time I put them on.  Indeed, they drove me to sell my pair of Tannoy Kingdom 15 !!


----------



## Sennophile

Interesting question.  I was in Sharm El - Sheikh, Egypt for a conference where I met a loudspeaker designer for KEF (UK).  He was an audio freak and, when he saw the HD 800, he went nuts!
  
 Chemistry being what it is between humans, we had a long discussion about audiophile tastes and listening experiences.  He was naturally more inclined to loudspeakers.  When I told him I owned a pair of KEF Reference MK IV, he bowed in respect.  However, the HD 800 literally brought him to his knees.  The quality was incredible, the soundstage outstanding, the presence impressive, the details crisp without being painful or unnatural, and the warmth was heart-taking!  He agreed, albeit reluctantly, that these were a listening tool that went beyond anything else he had heard ever before.  It was there and then that he showed me his own listening "kit", which was a Beyerdynamic Tesla T1.
  
 He was testing several headphone amps: 
 a) Oppo HA-1 + Oppo HA-2
 b) Chord Hugo
 c) Marantz HD-DAC1
 d) Resonessence Labs Concero HP
 e) RME Babyface
 f) Aurender Flow
 g) Grace M902
  
 Sorry, I can't remember the other 2, but then they were hardly worth it.
  
 The experience of comparing them was thrilling, but each had its flaws:
 Oppo HA-1 + HA-2 >> Mellow sound
 Chord Hugo >> Metallic sound
  
 Marantz HD-DAC1 >> Very good, but leaves you 'missing something' at the end of your listening session
 Resonessence Concero >> Very good, but sounds as if equalized
  
 RME Babyface >> Lacks punch
 Aurender Flow >> Arguably, the strongest contender to the HDVD 800
  
 Grace M902 >> Sound too analog, flat and 'lame'


----------



## shultzee

hermosabeachdud said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Just wanted to give a quick impressions of the new HD800 paired with the hdvd800 and balanced cables coming from a musician and not necessarily an audiophile.
> 
> ...


 

 I agree with the above sentiments.  Having come from some other high end cans I am highly satisfied with HD800's.   I appreciate the accuracy of these things both good recordings and bad.  On another note the Concero dac/amp does a very nice job. I have owned higher end stuff but the concero hp/hd800 is pretty amazing.


----------



## shultzee

hermosabeachdud said:


> PS, one other thing to note. Yes these are very involving headphones, and as such, you get tired listening to them much faster than say apple earbuds...
> 
> TO me its like driving my M3 on the limit, vs driving my dads toyota... obviously your going to get worn out much faster driving the M3!


 

 I don't find them fatiguing.  They just make me not want to listen to inferior cans.


----------



## johnnylexus

Can anyone recommend a relatively inexpensive amp for these?  Something less than $1,000 new or used


----------



## JamieMcC

johnnylexus said:


> Can anyone recommend a relatively inexpensive amp for these?  Something less than $1,000 new or used


 

 If your budget is a $1000 I would suggest you might consider saving just a little longer while waiting for a promotion deal on the Bottlehead Mainline you would most probably only need another $99 to secure one of the top tier amps for the HD800.


----------



## jlbrach

i love the 800,the more i listen to it the more i have trouble listening to other headphones....i have the LCD3-f which i love but i must say there is something about the 800 that sets it apart


----------



## elvergun

sennophile said:


> Interesting question.  I was in Sharm El - Sheikh, Egypt for a conference where I met a loudspeaker designer for KEF (UK).  He was an audio freak and, when he saw the HD 800, he went nuts!
> 
> Chemistry being what it is between humans, we had a long discussion about audiophile tastes and listening experiences.  He was naturally more inclined to loudspeakers.  When I told him I owned a pair of KEF Reference MK IV, he bowed in respect.  However, the HD 800 literally brought him to his knees.  The quality was incredible, the soundstage outstanding, the presence impressive, the details crisp without being painful or unnatural, and the warmth was heart-taking!  *He agreed, albeit reluctantly, that these were a listening tool that went beyond anything else he had heard ever before.*  It was there and then that he showed me his own listening "kit", which was a Beyerdynamic Tesla T1.


 
 That is a little bit of an exaggeration on his part.  I think the HD800 is just a little bit better than the T1.  On the other hand, depending how you look at it, the HD800 did go beyond the T1 since I sold my T1 after I bought the HD800.


----------



## elvergun

johnnylexus said:


> Can anyone recommend a relatively inexpensive amp for these?  Something less than $1,000 new or used


 
  
  
 Try finding the HDVA600 used on the sales forums -- I've seen them go for less than $1000.  It is an incredible amp which works great with all my headphones, not just the HD800.


----------



## Gr8Desire

jsgraha said:


> I doubt you can find this dream amp under $1000. And the synergy of hd800 setup not only with the amp, but also with the source, either analog or digital.
> 
> IMO, better look for other headphone than hd800. Having hd800 was like a journey to me. I enjoy the journey, whether tweaking with mod, try or audition or even trades source or amp etc. It's been almost 3 years and counting. There's no instant result.
> 
> My advise would be getting other phone. Lcd-x would be nice. Soundstage is quite big, easier to match, great bass and smooth treble. Buy one used maybe, so it could be sold without much loss.


 

 Almost any $1000 amp with EQ is equivalent to so called state of the art at 10X the cost.

 It is not the lack of money holding listeners back.


----------



## pervysage

Anyone want to give some impressions on the HD800 with Audio-gd amps? Thinking of getting myself a Master 11.

Sent from my SM-N920W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## JamieMcC

jamiemcc said:


> If your budget is a $1000 I would suggest you might consider saving just a little longer while waiting for a promotion deal on the Bottlehead Mainline you would most probably only need another $99 to secure one of the top tier amps for the HD800.


 
  
  
 Ah ha you dont have to wait long
  
 Bottlehead have a 10% off Labor Day promotion

 coupon code LABORDAY10 at checkout for a 10% discount on any Bottlehead order.
  
 The coupon is good through Labor Day, Monday September 7th 2015. (everything except LEDs and repair service is eligible!)


----------



## Sennophile

> *He agreed, albeit reluctantly, that these were a listening tool that went beyond anything else he had heard ever before.*


 
 I haven't had the opportunity to listen to the Beyerdynamic T1.
 Yet, as I said, "he agreed - albeit reluctantly - that these were a listening tool that went beyond anything else he had heard ever before."
 - Reluctantly >> He showed some reticence at uttering it, but the evidence was compelling.
 - A >> In my opinion, I'd say THE listening tool
 - Had >> It applies to anything and everything in the past, but does not preclude future "listening machines"


----------



## Sennophile

Having listened to the Concero only once, though on several types of material, I am left with a firm opinion that it sounds "equalized".
 This was particularly true with vocals and opera.
  
 I felt "cramped" after I used the Concero for 10 minutes or so.
 Listening to the HDVD 800, I feel more 'relaxed' and 'far less fatigued' over long listening sessions (extending up to 5-6 hours non-stop listening).
  
 That said, the Concero remains a very good amp.  The question is: Is "Very Good" enough by today's norms?
 A headphone amp (or, for that matter, any hardware) is there to stay.
 'Good' is just good, 'Very Good' is acceptable, 'Excellent' is the passing mark for audiophiles and 'Perfect' is the winning trophy.
 To me, PerFect translates to a permanent effect.  That is precisely what the HD 800 gives me - a permanent effect of deep-seated satisfaction !!
 ... and it's not only my opinion, but that of every other one who has given these headphones a fair listen!


----------



## shultzee

sennophile said:


> Having listened to the Concero only once, though on several types of material, I am left with a firm opinion that it sounds "equalized".
> This was particularly true with vocals and opera.
> 
> I felt "cramped" after I used the Concero for 10 minutes or so.
> ...


 

 Totally disagree.  And the problem as stated above "having listened to the concero only once"     Also were you using the native setting or one of the two filters?   The concero is very, very good with the hd800 but of course its not some end game setup.


----------



## Sennophile

I have no access to audition the Concero again.  The only opportunity I had was a year ago.  I guess it was the native setting.


----------



## HiAudio

sorrodje said:


> Congrats. For your amp. I wouldn't worry so much. Maybe it sounds horrible compared to some best offers but who care if you can compare .  A good and cheap benchmark is the Schitt Vali . it's darn cheap and sounds really decent with the HD800 and the 650.
> 
> If you hate the HD800 with your current amp, I don't think another amp or DAC will make you love it suddenly. If you like the HD800 but want to see if there's some improvement : Valhalla 2 /BH Crack or Meier Corda Jazz for example.  Mid priced Amps with very good value  .


 
  
  


rawrster said:


> I had the HDP a few years ago and thought it was pretty mediocre for the price. I believe it was 400-500 at the time. You should just wait until the HD800 arrives and then see if it's something you can live with or want an improvement down the line. I've always believed that one should buy the best headphone they can afford and go from there.


 
  
 I will see how it sounds with the NuForce Icon HDP. I can tolerate it if I can tell the HD800 sounds clearly better than my HD650 with the same NuForce.
  
 I guess I will save up for the HDVD 800. I don't think I can go wrong with it that was designed specifically for the HD800 and made by the same manufacturer. Besides many say that the HDVD 800 works great with many other phones. I am the kind people that like to get the best stuff that he can afford, barely 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I prefer to get the HDVD 800 over the HDVA 600 because it has the extra components that I don't need to add to HDVA 600. One looks and handles better than two.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

hiaudio said:


> I will see how it sounds with the NuForce Icon HDP. I can tolerate it if I can tell the HD800 sounds clearly better than my HD650 with the same NuForce.
> 
> I guess I will save up for the HDVD 800. I don't think I can go wrong with it that was designed specifically for the HD800 and made by the same manufacturer. Besides many say that the HDVD 800 works great with many other phones. I am the kind people that like to get the best stuff that he can afford, barely
> 
> ...


 
 HDVD 800 is indeed great with the HD 800.  It also works well with other headphones.  However, it does have an unusually high output impedance (43 ohms), which is great for the 300 - 600 ohms (depending on frequency) of the HD 800, but maybe not so much with other dynamic headphones of lower impedance (e.g., Grados, at 32 ohms).  
  
 There is a rule of thumb about having the output impedance of the amp less than 1/8 the input impedance of the headphone (pertaining to "damping factor," and only applying to dynamic headphones, not planar magnetics like the HiFiMAN HE1000), but frankly, I have not heard a difference when for example I use my Grado headphones driven by a CEntrance HiFi M8 amp, which lets me choose 1 ohm, 2 ohm, or 8 ohm output impedance with a switch.  The first two "should" be OK and the last one not (32 / 8 =4 < 8), but I could not hear a difference.


----------



## mnt522

For any on you interested in owning a pair. I have a pair on sale at USaudiomart
 http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649219642-sennheiser-hd-800-very-good-condition-for-sale/


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Has anyone else used an Audiophilleo1 or Audiophilleo2 into HDVD800? Did you notice much difference between them into S/PDIF coax input, vs bypassing and going into the USB input?


----------



## Mahdi8

What is the usb receiver inHDVD800?


----------



## ruthieandjohn

mahdi8 said:


> What is the usb receiver inHDVD800?


 
 The USB receiver allows you to hook up your HDVD800 to the USB plug of your PC as if it were a memory stick.  Then, by also downloading the driver from Sennheiser (good luck finding it on its website... but it IS there, and if you get stuck, I'll look up and send you the link), your PC can send the DAC in your HDVD800 digital data streams, so that the presumably higher quality DAC in the HDVD800 can do the conversion into analog instead of your PC.  In addition to the Sennheiser driver, you have to monkey around with your PC media player, e.g. Windows Media Player, to make it put its output to the USB.  Right click on the little speaker and choose "playback options" after you add your Sennheiser USB driver to get started.


----------



## Mahdi8

Sorry if it wasnt clear what i meant was what is the usb receiver chip inHDVD800.


----------



## Sorrodje

mahdi8 said:


> Sorry if it wasnt clear what i meant was what is the usb receiver chip inHDVD800.


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/605444/sennheiser-hdvd800-headphone-amplifier/1140#post_9565547
  
 Xmos based USB receiver.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Is there a portable amp for the HD800 that is equivalent to the Eddie Current Zana Deux S or the Blue Hawaii or can come close to comparing with them?

 From the portable amp guide
 http://www.head-fi.org/a/head-fi-buying-guide-portable-amps-dacs-daps
  
 Looks like Chord Hugo & Astell & Kern AK240 are high as they get for portable rigs.
  
 I don't think I read many posts praising the Hugo & HD800 pairing.


----------



## rawrster

thenewguy007 said:


> Is there a portable amp for the HD800 that is equivalent to the Eddie Current Zana Deux S or the Blue Hawaii or can come close to comparing with them?
> 
> From the portable amp guide
> http://www.head-fi.org/a/head-fi-buying-guide-portable-amps-dacs-daps
> ...


 
  
 The Blue Hawaii is for Stax but if you are looking for totl performance in a portable setup then the answer is no. The HD800 is not something that the majority of the owners use in a portable setup either.


----------



## longbowbbs

rawrster said:


> thenewguy007 said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a portable amp for the HD800 that is equivalent to the Eddie Current Zana Deux S or the Blue Hawaii or can come close to comparing with them?
> ...


 
 Ah...No....Not very portable.  They are amazing at home with your TOTL rig though.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Even if you could find a portable amplifier and DAC good enough for the HD800, unless you move exclusively through quiet rooms, your listening experience would be terrible. There is zero isolation. These are desktop headphones; using them as a portable solution would be like eating a ten course meal during your morning commute.


----------



## longbowbbs

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Even if you could find a portable amplifier and DAC good enough for the HD800, unless you move exclusively through quiet rooms, your listening experience would be terrible. There is zero isolation. These are desktop headphones; using them as a portable solution would be like eating a ten course meal during your morning commute.


 
 That is a terrific analogy!


----------



## RUMAY408

longbowbbs said:


> Ah...No....Not very portable.  They are amazing at home with your TOTL rig though.


 
  
  


thenewguy007 said:


> Is there a portable amp for the HD800 that is equivalent to the Eddie Current Zana Deux S or the Blue Hawaii or can come close to comparing with them?
> 
> From the portable amp guide
> http://www.head-fi.org/a/head-fi-buying-guide-portable-amps-dacs-daps
> ...


 

 Headamp makes HP amps for Dynamic HP's, the GSX-mk2 is outside the WA5 (with highest end tubes) the best HP amp I've heard with HD800


----------



## Sennophile

I'm an interpreter and, as such, have to travel around often.  An audiophile quality portable amp for the HD 800 would be a welcome solution.
 Moving around with the HDVD 800 is unpractical.


----------



## johnjen

If you're going to use the 800's in a mobile setting I'd recommend that you either, #1. shorten the stock cable, or B. get an aftermarket shorter cable.
The former is also a way to improve the performance of the stock 800's for very little cost.
And if you want, it accords you the option of wiring them up in balanced configuration.
The latter of course can be ordered in either in bal. or unbal. mode.

The stock cable is plenty long for home use but it would be WAY to easy to trip over if you're 'on the go'…
That would be 'bad'…:blink: :basshead:


Also be aware that 800's don't seal out the external environment nor the converse where those around will hear what you're listening to. 
Albeit with nowhere near the same fidelity. :atsmile:


JJ


----------



## Moonhead

I have a Superlux HA3D portable amp for My HD800, i works Amazingly and runs on batteries and its cheap. 
I also have a short 1.25m cable with neutrik plug for My HD800, bought from Forza Audio works.

So it Can easily be Good and portable if the environment allows it


----------



## Mach3

moonhead said:


> I have a Superlux HA3D portable amp for My HD800, i works Amazingly and runs on batteries and its cheap.
> I also have a short 1.25m cable with neutrik plug for My HD800, bought from Forza Audio works.
> 
> So it Can easily be Good and portable if the environment allows it


 
  
 But what do you use for DAC with the Superlux HA3D for it to portable/transportable?


----------



## Moonhead

This, scroll Down to Audio performance 

http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-6-plus.htm


----------



## Moonhead

If Anybody missed it, check out Tylles Big Sound reviews on blind testing, very intersting and HD800 comes in top5 every time 

http://www.innerfidelity.com


----------



## Sorrodje

Yeah. the "Big sound  2015" from innerfidelity is an amazing adventure.  Absolutely great work


----------



## TokenGesture

To pigeonhole Hugo as a portable does it a huge disservice.  It's a great desktop rig, and IMHO the HD800 sounds truthful from it.


----------



## Mach3

The best result I've experienced with my HD800 transportable Triad Audio LISA III stacked with Styleaudio carat-TOPAZ


----------



## longbowbbs

rumay408 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Ah...No....Not very portable.  They are amazing at home with your TOTL rig though.
> ...


 
 Randy, you need to find someone with the Studio Six at a meet and hook up the HD800's. That is the best combo with the HD800's I have heard.


----------



## Thenewguy007

johnjen said:


> And if you want, it accords you the option of wiring them up in balanced configuration.
> The latter of course can be ordered in either in bal. or unbal. mode.
> 
> 
> JJ


 
  
 Speaking of which, if I do want to use balanced cables, do I need to send the HD800 to a specialist to mod the connectors or can any balanced cable just connected to the HD800 fine?


----------



## johnjen

thenewguy007 said:


> Speaking of which, if I do want to use balanced cables, do I need to send the HD800 to a specialist to mod the connectors or can any balanced cable just connected to the HD800 fine?



Yes!

Most after market cables can just plug into the 800's, which precludes having to send them in.

But to go for the full meal deal, ie. hardwiring, yes they need to be sent in or taken to someone who is familiar with the proceedure.

And as an alternative the stock cable is capable of being converted to balanced operation (it has 4 wires in the cable) by just changing the connector.

JJ


----------



## daphen

Is the Valhalla 2 good with the HD800? Do I need a DAC?


----------



## Thenewguy007

johnjen said:


> Yes!
> 
> Most after market cables can just plug into the 800's, which precludes having to send them in.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What's the difference between buying aftermarket balanced cables vs having the HD800 hardwired?


----------



## Mach3

moonhead said:


> If Anybody missed it, check out Tylles Big Sound reviews on blind testing, very intersting and HD800 comes in top5 every time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah top 4 everytime, surprised the HE1000 wasn't even picked once out of the 3 test. I mean even the LCD3F got picked for 2nd place.


----------



## atsq17

daphen said:


> Is the Valhalla 2 good with the HD800? Do I need a DAC?


 
  
  
 Depends on budget and opinion. I personally think it's average.
  
 To the DAC question... an emphatically big YES!


----------



## atsq17

thenewguy007 said:


> What's the difference between buying aftermarket balanced cables vs having the HD800 hardwired?


 
  
 There's no need to hardwire the cable. It's made to be removable so you can upgrade them. 
  
 Get cables from Norne, Double Helix or Whiplash if you are in the USA (I personally use Norne) and Toxic Cables if you are in UK or Europe.


----------



## RUMAY408

longbowbbs said:


> Randy, you need to find someone with the Studio Six at a meet and hook up the HD800's. That is the best combo with the HD800's I have heard.


 

 ALO makes quality gear and the Studio Six is their flagship amp so I have no doubt its amazing, if they bring one to the Nashville Music City meet I would love to hear it.
  
 Dan (Mr. Speakers) brought the WA5 with Royal Sophia Princess Tubes to the last meet with the Yggy as a DAC, a very impressive setup he also ran the Yggy with the Cavalli Liquid Crimson and The Rag to show case the Ether HP's


----------



## johnjen

thenewguy007 said:


> What's the difference between buying aftermarket balanced cables vs having the HD800 hardwired?


It isn't about the difference, it's about what type of amp you have (balanced or unbalanced) that you'll use to drive the 800's.
And
Whether you want to modify the 800's (hardwire them), or not.

These 2 aspects can be mixed between them.

And in so doing, by modifying in this way, they are no longer in 'stock' condition.
This can be a 'big deal' for some (selling them, changing their aesthetic value, etc.) while for others if it improves the performance, it can be a decidely 'good thing'. 

IOW these are 2 different ways of modifying the 800's.

JJ


----------



## Khragon

Anyone experience with this cable from eBay?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/221506101403
  
 I purchased one recently (black, 15-feet, XLR), looking forward to better ergonomics compare to the stock cable, and hopefully some sonic improvements as well.
 Not ready to drop $350-$500 on Norne just yet, as I need 10+ feet for my application, so hopefully this cable will work out.


----------



## RUMAY408

daphen said:


> Is the Valhalla 2 good with the HD800? Do I need a DAC?


 

 The Valhalla is one of the better HP amps in it's price range I've heard but would strongly recommend a similar quality DAC


----------



## Mach3

Base on Bob Katz claims recently on innerfidelity "Big Sound 2015" high impedance cans like HD800 require high voltage not high current to shine.
 Can't agree with him anymore on that statement, my Phonitor with the 120V technology really makes the HD800 sing like a high end tube amp.


----------



## punit

khragon said:


> Anyone experience with this cable from eBay?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/221506101403
> 
> I purchased one recently (black, 15-feet, XLR), looking forward to better ergonomics compare to the stock cable, and hopefully some sonic improvements as well.
> Not ready to drop $350-$500 on Norne just yet, as I need 10+ feet for my application, so hopefully this cable will work out.


 
 He does not mention what kind of cable he uses. I just ordered a replacement  Zy Cable, will see how that goes.


----------



## Khragon

punit said:


> He does not mention what kind of cable he uses. I just ordered a replacement  Zy Cable, will see how that goes.


 

 Yeah, I guess I could ask, but searching his feedback, all of them are very good, so.. at $126 for a 15 footer, it's worth a try.  I'll report back when I get a chance to give it a listen.  Did you get one for yourself too?


----------



## atsq17

Bogac Tekman aka: AudioMinor on HeadFi and Ebay makes some good reasonably priced cables. I had him re-terminate a cable once and it sounded almost better than the original.


----------



## thinker

the new Sennheiser HD-800 has reengineered driver and the HDVD-800 plays DSD files


----------



## Sorrodje

mach3 said:


> Base on Bob Katz claims recently on innerfidelity "Big Sound 2015" high impedance cans like HD800 require high voltage not high current to shine.
> Can't agree with him anymore on that statement, my Phonitor with the 120V technology really makes the HD800 sing like a high end tube amp.


 
  
 Bob Katz's statement is not debatable. All High Impedance cans are voltage driven. period.   If you love your Phonitor with your HD800 , that's pefectly fine though. Like a lot of SS amps, I assume the Phonitor has really no problem to provide all voltage the HD800 needs.  My  2 cents.


----------



## Sorrodje

thinker said:


> the new Sennheiser HD-800 has *reengineered* driver and the HDVD-800 plays DSD files


 
  
 Source ? 
  

  
 Yes, I'm doubtful.


----------



## JamieMcC

hmmm no details, but obviously gold in colour?


----------



## Blackmore

You mean those tube amps that have SS output stage?
  
  
  
 Quote:


mach3 said:


> Base on Bob Katz claims recently on innerfidelity "Big Sound 2015" high impedance cans like HD800 require high voltage not high current to shine.
> Can't agree with him anymore on that statement, my Phonitor with the 120V technology really makes the HD800 sing *like a high end tube amp.*


----------



## TMRaven

daphen said:


> Is the Valhalla 2 good with the HD800? Do I need a DAC?


 
  
  
 I prefer the Asgard2 to the Valhalla2 (stock tubes) with the HD800.  Asgard2 is slightly warmer and more refined sounding.  It's always nice to have a decent dedicated dac.


----------



## daphen

tmraven said:


> I prefer the Asgard2 to the Valhalla2 (stock tubes) with the HD800.  Asgard2 is slightly warmer and more refined sounding.  It's always nice to have a decent dedicated dac.


 
 I see. Is there any kind of extra maintenance with tube amps?


----------



## Zoom25

Reengineered drivers? I too need a source on that.


----------



## Khragon

punit said:


> He does not mention what kind of cable he uses. I just ordered a replacement  Zy Cable, will see how that goes.


 
 I asked, it's silverplated copper with teflon.  Doesn't sound too bad, won't get mine until next week unfortunately as he's a bit behind.


----------



## TMRaven

daphen said:


> I see. Is there any kind of extra maintenance with tube amps?


 
  
 They take longer to warm-up than solid-state amps, and the tubes have limited life-span.


----------



## daphen

tmraven said:


> They take longer to warm-up than solid-state amps, and the tubes have limited life-span.


 
 Alright, how limited though?


----------



## whirlwind

daphen said:


> tmraven said:
> 
> 
> > They take longer to warm-up than solid-state amps, and the tubes have limited life-span.
> ...


 
 Don't be worried....they last a long time.  2500 hours...some 10,000 hours, like a C3g


----------



## daphen

whirlwind said:


> Don't be worried....they last a long time.  2500 hours...some 10,000 hours, like a C3g


 
 Oh. I don't think I'll use the same amp for that long.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

zoom25 said:


> Reengineered drivers? I too need a source on that.


 

 Photoshopped?


----------



## jsgraha

tmraven said:


> They take longer to warm-up than solid-state amps, and the tubes have limited life-span.





Maybe valhalla did warm up longer than asgard, I don't know, but my experience with tubes amp was the other way around. My current tubes amp (and previous one, wa6-se) are quicker to warm up than my previous solid state (burson and violectric). Stratus only need about 15-20 minutes to sound good, while soloist took about an hour plus to sound engaging and not cold. I tend to leave solid state amp always on. 


But tubes had their limited lifespan though. Finger cross, all the tubes that I have still healthy after 2-3 years.


----------



## RUMAY408

tmraven said:


> They take longer to warm-up than solid-state amps, and the tubes have limited life-span.


 

 Agreed SS Amps warm up a lot faster.
  
 The issue for me with tubes is cost add 30% to 100%+ to the stock setup


----------



## rawrster

I've always just left my SS amps on all the time so they don't have to be warmed up. With tubes amps I turned them on/off. It did save around an hour or so since all the tube amps I've owned have taken a while to warm up.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

rawrster said:


> I've always just left my SS amps on all the time so they don't have to be warmed up. With tubes amps I turned them on/off. It did save around an hour or so since all the tube amps I've owned have taken a while to warm up.




+1, SS and DACs stay on 24/7, tubes 30-60 minutes before listening.


----------



## longbowbbs

rawrster said:


> I've always just left my SS amps on all the time so they don't have to be warmed up. With tubes amps I turned them on/off. It did save around an hour or so since all the tube amps I've owned have taken a while to warm up.


 
 Tubes amps (Which I love!) are a challenge in the summer. I just watch the thermostat rise as I listen.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

My vali is a great little entry level amp for the HD800, but at some point I'm looking to get Yggy and either Phonitor 2 or Ragnarok...which SS Amp has more love here on HF?


----------



## Taowolf51

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Bob Katz and Tyll's exploration into EQing the HD800. I wish they talked more about their impressions and compared the EQ'd to the non-EQ'd more extensively, but it was still an interesting video nonetheless.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

bosiemoncrieff said:


> My vali is a great little entry level amp for the HD800, but at some point I'm looking to get Yggy and either Phonitor 2 or Ragnarok...which SS Amp has more love here on HF?


 
 There may be some disagreement (I know I will, but here goes....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), "ears I trust" much prefer the Rag to the Phonitor 2.


----------



## icebear

bosiemoncrieff said:


> ...which SS Amp has more love here on HF?


 
 GSX-Mk2


----------



## rawrster

longbowbbs said:


> Tubes amps (Which I love!) are a challenge in the summer. I just watch the thermostat rise as I listen.


 
  
 Good thing the summer weather should be nearing an end soon. It will be helpful when the winter comes


----------



## HiAudio

I received the HD800 (it's a factory refurbished one sold by Crutchfield). Listened some music from violin, piano, pop song, symphony with the DAC/Amp NuForce icon HDP (the only I have). Maybe it's because my amp is incapable, I do not feel it's better than my HD650 with the same NuForce. I could even feel the same music kind of smothered with the HD800. The condition and the package of the refurbished somehow let me down a bit because the package and condition looks like a customer returned item. I had bought other refurbished electronics before and they all looked new and shinny and I could not tell them from new ones. The HD800 phone does not have any scratches on but I found dust on ear pads which make you think how did Sennheiser refurbish them and it could be easily cleaned with vacuum. The outer box is torn but in one piece.The HD800 does not fit as comfortable as the HD650. Crutchfield said I could request a replacement or a refund. I am still think about if I want to keep it. I will not have another amp other than my 10+ year old (entry level then) Onkyo home theater receiver to drive it. Should I just return it and pay a few $$$ to get a new one? Sooner or later I will have one HD800 unless they release a replacement at comparable price and performance.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Damn... so conflicted.
  
 Doing A/B testing with the HD800 & the LCD-2 rev.1
  
 Switching using the iFi Micro iDSD solid state amp/dac & Bottlehead Crack OTL amp (running through the iDSD dac).
  
 Can't decided!


----------



## Thenewguy007

hiaudio said:


> I received the HD800 (it's a factory refurbished one sold by Crutchfield).
> The condition and the package of the refurbished somehow let me down a bit because the package and condition looks like a customer returned item. I had bought other refurbished electronics before and they all looked new and shinny and I could not tell them from new ones. The HD800 phone does not have any scratches on but I found dust on ear pads which make you think how did Sennheiser refurbish them and it could be easily cleaned with vacuum. The outer box is torn but in one piece.
> 
> Should I just return it and pay a few $$$ to get a new one? Sooner or later I will have one HD800 unless they release a replacement at comparable price and performance.


 
  
 How much did you pay for the refurbished unit?
 If there is nothing wrong with the actually headphones other than some dust, I wouldn't worry too much about the box.


----------



## HiAudio

thenewguy007 said:


> How much did you pay for the refurbished unit?
> If there is nothing wrong with the actually headphones other than some dust, I wouldn't worry too much about the box.


 

 It's $1100, about $400-500 lower than brand new from reputable authorized dealer. The brand new one price increased from $1499 to $1599 recently. The one I received has SN 34xxx. I guess it's from within 2 years. Crutchfield said it's shipped from Sennheiser to them and not a customer return which would be labeled as open box.


----------



## Thenewguy007

$1100 is about what the HD800 go for used in the classifieds, though you could probably find one for $100 less & in better condition if you wait it out until one pops up.


----------



## PleasantSounds

hiaudio said:


> I received the HD800 (it's a factory refurbished one sold by Crutchfield). Listened some music from violin, piano, pop song, symphony with the DAC/Amp NuForce icon HDP (the only I have). Maybe it's because my amp is incapable, I do not feel it's better than my HD650 with the same NuForce. I could even feel the same music kind of smothered with the HD800.
> [..]
> I will not have another amp other than my 10+ year old (entry level then) Onkyo home theater receiver to drive it. Should I just return it and pay a few $$$ to get a new one? Sooner or later I will have one HD800 unless they release a replacement at comparable price and performance.


 
  
 If you don't like the sound in your rig and have no plans to change the rig, then perhaps a better option for you is a different headphone? The consistency of sound from one HD800 to another is pretty good, so I wouldn't expect a different pair to be significantly better in your system.


----------



## HiAudio

pleasantsounds said:


> If you don't like the sound in your rig and have no plans to change the rig, then perhaps a better option for you is a different headphone? The consistency of sound from one HD800 to another is pretty good, so I wouldn't expect a different pair to be significantly better in your system.


 

  I don't think the HD800 should sound what I heard because my DAC/Amp have been said to be very mediocre for HD800. Actually the NuForce HDP performs great for my HD650 and AGK K712. I don't need "another headphone" and I want the HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I eventually will own one. Given that I like the HD650 very much and almost every one said the HD800 is a big step up over the HD650, I do believe I haven't got the real sound from the HD800. I may want to get a replacement of refurbished HD800 or a new HD800. Still thinking which way to go.


----------



## Gr8Desire

hiaudio said:


> I received the HD800 (it's a factory refurbished one sold by Crutchfield). Listened some music from violin, piano, pop song, symphony with the DAC/Amp NuForce icon HDP (the only I have). Maybe it's because my amp is incapable, I do not feel it's better than my HD650 with the same NuForce. I could even feel the same music kind of smothered with the HD800. The condition and the package of the refurbished somehow let me down a bit because the package and condition looks like a customer returned item. I had bought other refurbished electronics before and they all looked new and shinny and I could not tell them from new ones. The HD800 phone does not have any scratches on but I found dust on ear pads which make you think how did Sennheiser refurbish them and it could be easily cleaned with vacuum. The outer box is torn but in one piece.The HD800 does not fit as comfortable as the HD650. Crutchfield said I could request a replacement or a refund. I am still think about if I want to keep it. I will not have another amp other than my 10+ year old (entry level then) Onkyo home theater receiver to drive it. Should I just return it and pay a few $$$ to get a new one? Sooner or later I will have one HD800 unless they release a replacement at comparable price and performance.



 


A year and one half ago I bought the HD800s and used them with a handful of amps (tubes & SS). I felt the same way as you. The HD800 was no better than my DT990s. Back the HD800s went to Amazon.

Lots of water under the bridge, and I bought a pair of HE-560's with a Oppo HA-1 to power them. Nice sound. 

On a whim, I bought the HD800s again with the intention of sending them back before the 30 day Amazon return period. I just wanted to confirm once and for all that the HD800s were anemic and overrated.

Didn't work out as expected. The HD800s proved to be the best HPs I've listened to when paired with a decent SS amp.

I learned a few things:

1. I have no great love for tube amps and their increased distortion, attenuated high notes and random coloration.
2. Balanced cabled work well with an amp like the Oppo. They more than double the power output . 
3. The HD800's are underrated.


----------



## longbowbbs

rawrster said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Tubes amps (Which I love!) are a challenge in the summer. I just watch the thermostat rise as I listen.
> ...


 
 We'll take all the help we can get in Northern Wisconsin!


----------



## johnjen

I'm evaluating the VST plugin from Sonarworks that 'flatens' out the 800's response curve.
So far I'm impressed, but I need much more time to evaluate it.

Also this is a 'general' reponse curve vs. a custom curve, which requires the HPs sent to Latvia for a run thru their system.
And on top of that my 800's are modded and the general curve is for 'stock' cans.

Even so the trial run of 21 days should give me enough time to figure out if this is a 'keeper' or not.

Interesting times in Audio indeed.

JJ


----------



## jlbrach

3. The HD800's are underrated.
  
 underrated?seriously?the HD800's are and have been one of the best reviewed headphones for many years and tons of people regard them as the best headphones in the world


----------



## Wildcatsare1

jlbrach said:


> [COLOR=FF0000]3. The HD800's are underrated.[/COLOR]
> 
> underrated?seriously?the HD800's are and have been one of the best reviewed headphones for many years and tons of people regard them as the best headphones in the world




I believe that was sarcasm.......


----------



## bearFNF

hiaudio said:


> I don't think the HD800 should sound what I heard because my DAC/Amp have been said to be very mediocre for HD800. Actually the NuForce HDP performs great for my HD650 and AGK K712. I don't need "another headphone" and I want the HD800
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Anyway you can get to somewhere to listen to the HD800 you have on a different source/amp? I have both the HD650 and the HD800 and the HD650 went back into their box and stayed there after the HD800 showed up.  This was even before I got a better matched amp for them.
  
 It also may be that the HD800 you have were not properly re-furbed and have something wrong with them.


----------



## HiAudio

gr8desire said:


> hiaudio said:
> 
> 
> > I received the HD800 (it's a factory refurbished one sold by Crutchfield). Listened some music from violin, piano, pop song, symphony with the DAC/Amp NuForce icon HDP (the only I have). Maybe it's because my amp is incapable, I do not feel it's better than my HD650 with the same NuForce. I could even feel the same music kind of smothered with the HD800. The condition and the package of the refurbished somehow let me down a bit because the package and condition looks like a customer returned item. I had bought other refurbished electronics before and they all looked new and shinny and I could not tell them from new ones. The HD800 phone does not have any scratches on but I found dust on ear pads which make you think how did Sennheiser refurbish them and it could be easily cleaned with vacuum. The outer box is torn but in one piece.The HD800 does not fit as comfortable as the HD650. Crutchfield said I could request a replacement or a refund. I am still think about if I want to keep it. I will not have another amp other than my 10+ year old (entry level then) Onkyo home theater receiver to drive it. Should I just return it and pay a few $$$ to get a new one? Sooner or later I will have one HD800 unless they release a replacement at comparable price and performance.
> ...


 

 Great story. I can't wait for the 1.5 years


----------



## HiAudio

bearfnf said:


> Anyway you can get to somewhere to listen to the HD800 you have on a different source/amp? I have both the HD650 and the HD800 and the HD650 went back into their box and stayed there after the HD800 showed up.  This was even before I got a better matched amp for them.
> 
> It also may be that the HD800 you have were not properly re-furbed and have something wrong with them.


 

 after more listening I found that the original CD recording has contributed to the sound quality. Better recording sound good and not so good recordings does not sound so good. The difference from HD800 is noticeably bigger than from HD650.


----------



## Thenewguy007

jlbrach said:


> 3. The HD800's are underrated.
> 
> underrated?seriously?the HD800's are and have been one of the best reviewed headphones for many years and tons of people regard them as the best headphones in the world


 
  
 If anything they should be overrated.
  
 My LCD2 & HD800 are at the polar opposites of each other.
  
 Amazing at one end & terrible at the other end.


----------



## Moonhead

Try your Onkyo amp, it can almost only be better than Nuforce and you will realize that HD800 is much better than HD650


----------



## Sorrodje

moonhead said:


> Try your Onkyo amp, it can almost only be better than Nuforce and you will realize that HD800 is much better than HD650


 
  
 Yea. i'd try this as well. 
  
@HiAudio: Maybe You should be patient and sit and give more hours of listening to let your brain to be used to the new headphones .  switching from ah HD650 to a HD800 needs some time imo.  I own both


----------



## henkie196

Switching between headphones is good for comparing their differences, but can sometimes highlight things that you might not notice so strongly if you'd just listen to the headphone separately for a while. For instance, when I was directly comparing the HD800 and HE-560, the HD800 might seem a bit bright and a bit light in the bass department (whereas the HE-560 sounds a bit V-shaped and darkish), but when I just listened to a few speakers for a few minutes, then tried the HD800 again, the bass seemed quite ample in comparison.


----------



## icebear

gr8desire said:


> ...
> 
> A year and one half ago I bought the HD800s and used them with a handful of amps (tubes & SS). I felt the same way as you. The HD800 was no better than my DT990s. Back the HD800s went to Amazon.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Most important learning :
 Trust your own ears with your preferred music and don't give too much of a shiit on internet blurb 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


hiaudio said:


> Great story. I can't wait for the 1.5 years


 
  
 I ordered my HD800 and GSX-Mk2 in Jan. 2014. Got the HD800 within a week but as bad timing would have it the GSX-Mk2 took 1 1/2 years to arrive. I enjoyed the HD800 directly form my DAC (e20 MkIII) but unless you have heard these headphones in a balanced set up with the GSX, you have not really an idea what these are capable of. Other than a balanced Norne Vanquish cable I have not modded my HD800.


----------



## yellowblue

I compared the HD800 with the HE-1000 at a dealer nearby (with Phonitor 2). I understand why so many people like the HE-1000. They are transparent, creamy and have a fantastic instrument seperation att the same time. Huge soundstage. This combination can give you goose bumps with certain music. I can really understand why people will sell their Audeze to buy those instead.
  
 BUT i would never sell my HD800 to buy those. Before I heard the HE-1000 I thought they could be a good complement to my HD800 (and I should sell my LCD-3F). But the HD800 with a very good DAC and amp give the HE-1000 a really good match. The HE-1000 are better in some aspects (not in all aspects though) but it is definately not worth the investment. 
  
 You can get much more for your money investing in a good DAC or amp, staying with the HD800.
 Maybe the HD800 are a bit underrated because many don´t know how much the HD800 can grow in a good chain (more than any other headphone I know) up to a level that they can sound quiet similar to the HE-1000.


----------



## longbowbbs

The ALO Audio Studio Six is the best amp I have ever heard with the HD800's. Paired with the Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 DSDse they 800's were pure bliss to listen to. Incredible pairing.


----------



## rawrster

jlbrach said:


> 3. The HD800's are underrated.
> 
> underrated?seriously?the HD800's are and have been one of the best reviewed headphones for many years and tons of people regard them as the best headphones in the world


 
  
 Actually the HD800 have been under appreciated at times. When the LCD-2 was released many HD800 owners went to that headphone and suddenly the HD800 did not have enough bass or wasn't natural enough. There's also the preconceived notion that these headphones are too bright or have too little bass. It's also been around a lot longer than most of the other headphones in this price range that's talked around here so it's not talked about as much as others. I'm not sure what people think about the HD800 now however..


----------



## elvergun

rawrster said:


> Actually the HD800 have been under appreciated at times. When the LCD-2 was released many HD800 owners went to that headphone and suddenly the HD800 did not have enough bass or wasn't natural enough. There's also the preconceived notion that these headphones are too bright or have too little bass. It's also been around a lot longer than most of the other headphones in this price range that's talked around here so it's not talked about as much as others. I'm not sure what people think about the HD800 now however..


 
  
  
 The HD800 is underrated\under appreciated every time a new high-end headphone comes out.  It seems that a couple of months later, after the dust has settled and people have had time to listen closely, the HD800 is appreciated yet again.


----------



## Rayzilla

elvergun said:


> The HD800 is underrated\under appreciated every time a new high-end headphone comes out.  It seems that a couple of month later, after the dust has settled and people have had time to listen closely, the HD800 is appreciated yet again.


 
 So true! I couldn't have said it any better than this.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I know all of my other headphones haven't been listened to since the HD800 arrived. Attempted to purchase everything for the Analixus( sp?) Mod, but her in the Provinces the creatology and double sided sticky sheets cannot be found, so waiting for the Amazon delivery. 
  
 Listened to Dorian Recordings, Mata, Dallas Symphony Prokiev/Stravinsky (to get me in the Ukrainian frame of mind before my trip), wow, incredible recording! Didn't like the performance as much as Bernstein's Le Sacre du Printeps, but the Arcam FMJCD23>Monarchy M22B>Taurus Mk. 2>HD800 chain was sublime! Oh and
@JaZZ was correct, they sound much better with the dust covers in place
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





....


----------



## nephilim32

jsgraha said:


> Maybe valhalla did warm up longer than asgard, I don't know, but my experience with tubes amp was the other way around. My current tubes amp (and previous one, wa6-se) are quicker to warm up than my previous solid state (burson and violectric). Stratus only need about 15-20 minutes to sound good, while soloist took about an hour plus to sound engaging and not cold. I tend to leave solid state amp always on.
> 
> 
> But tubes had their limited lifespan though. Finger cross, all the tubes that I have still healthy after 2-3 years.




Oh yeah. I have a Burson. It takes about a half hr to warm up from my power supply. 
The owners manual for the Burson soloist reccomend 30 minutes for amp warming!!! I couldn't believe it. That's long for a solid state amp, but man is it worth the wait. 
Excellent amplifier with the 800's. Love the match if I may say...once again! Lol


----------



## Mach3

I've lost count of how many people I know that hated the HD800 the first time they heard them. Only to later own one, go figure. 
Not many headphone has that kind of pulling power to draw people back.
It like the HD800 has the power of the dark side. 
Your purchase has betrayed you.
"Give yourself to the Dark Side" lol


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I think part of the HD800's continued success is the value for the money...David Mahler's assessment of them as the 'neutrality king' seems to have stuck, and at ~$1000 in the secondhand market, their value is extraordinary. The LCD-3, maybe their closest in-production competitor, is $400 more new and--while a far bassier headphone--ultimately less versatile, especially for classical music, and certainly nowhere near neutral. Only Stax consistently outperforms HD800 across the board.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

henkie196 said:


> Switching between headphones is good for comparing their differences, but can sometimes highlight things that you might not notice so strongly if you'd just listen to the headphone separately for a while. For instance, when I was directly comparing the HD800 and HE-560, the HD800 might seem a bit bright and a bit light in the bass department (whereas the HE-560 sounds a bit V-shaped and darkish), but when I just listened to a few speakers for a few minutes, then tried the HD800 again, the bass seemed quite ample in comparison.


 

 I've disliked some instant ABX for those reasons. It might be easier to tell a difference, but not necessarily to tell which is better. And for some who say that audio memory is too short for anything longer, when they have a cold, do they grill each person who says they sound sick and ask if that person did a proper ABX before coming to that conclusion?


----------



## johnjen

bosiemoncrieff said:


> snip
> Only Stax consistently outperforms HD800 across the board.



Except for the very bottom end, which is just not gunna happen from e-stats, especially with such a small surface area.

Being able to deliver well coupled and powerful sub-harmonics, which are especially detailed and focused, in the lo-freqs below 20Hz, lends a whole new level of toe tapping time to the experience.
You can feel it your chest, as odd as that sounds, even my non-audio SWMBO has noticed this, unbidden.

She does dutifully nod and is good at paying attention to my musings, until its time to move on… 

Even so she has noticed that my cheap speakers have also noticably improved as well, as have I.

Proper bass is rare and has a welcomed influence for just about every instrument and voice etc, when it's properly fed, focused, and coupled. 

JJ


----------



## johnjen

birdmanofct said:


> I've disliked some instant ABX for those reasons. It might be easier to tell a difference, but not necessarily to tell which is better. And for some who say that audio memory is too short for anything longer, when they have a cold, do they grill each person who says they sound sick and ask if that person did a proper ABX before coming to that conclusion?



ABX is a very limited test with equally as limited results.
And its direct relevance to actually listening to and being immersed within music is dubious at best.

But for some it is a very important tool in order to 'test' very narrow and limited aspects of hearing.

These sorts of investigations and experiements are or can be useful, but all to often are used as the justification for previous assumptions to remain intact.

This works rather well until the reality bubble bursts due to direct experience to the contrary.

Such is the way of things.

JJ


----------



## johnjen

nephilim32 said:


> Oh yeah. I have a Burson. It takes about a half hr to warm up from my power supply.
> The owners manual for the Burson soloist reccomend 30 minutes for amp warming!!! I couldn't believe it. That's long for a solid state amp, but man is it worth the wait.
> Excellent amplifier with the 800's. Love the match if I may say...once again! Lol




One thing to keep in mind is…

It's not just the active heat generating devices that need to reach thermal equilibrium, but EVERY component, including the chassis itself.
Every cap, resistor, choke, transformer, IC etc.

Reaching equilibrium means that the thermal flow of energy has stopped moving to the cool spots just to bring them up to a 'constant' temperature, and the device is now just maintaining a 'steady' thermal environment.

Of course it isn't as simple as this description but it does help in understanding why it can take a while to reach peak performance.

JJ


----------



## Thenewguy007

rawrster said:


> Actually the HD800 have been under appreciated at times. When the LCD-2 was released many HD800 owners went to that headphone and suddenly the HD800 did not have enough bass or wasn't natural enough. *There's also the preconceived notion that these headphones are too bright or have too little bass. *


 
  
 Preconceived notion my ass!
  
 The words I can describe the HD800's bass is thin, veiled, tiny, recessed when doing A/B tests with the LCD-2!


----------



## longbowbbs

thenewguy007 said:


> rawrster said:
> 
> 
> > Actually the HD800 have been under appreciated at times. When the LCD-2 was released many HD800 owners went to that headphone and suddenly the HD800 did not have enough bass or wasn't natural enough. *There's also the preconceived notion that these headphones are too bright or have too little bass. *
> ...


 
 This is an amp and DAC issue.


----------



## Thenewguy007

longbowbbs said:


> This is an amp and DAC issue.


 
  
 I'm using the DAC from the iFi Micro iDSD, It's been rated very highly & was recommended over a slew of other DAC.
 The amp I'm using is the Bottlehead Crack, also highly recommended & on the high end of the mid tier amps (without going into the thousands of $$$).
  
 Now, if you mean I need to spend $5,000 on a DAC & $3,000 to $7,000 on a amp to "correct" the thin veiled bass issues well then, can't really argue with you on that.


----------



## longbowbbs

The iDSD is adequate with the HD800's. Never heard the Crack. The Decware CSP2+ worked well and is similar to the Crack. Many TOTL headphones, just like TOTL speakers need the entire chain to be at its best. So, yes, you will need to step up your game to get the best from these cans. Sorry. That is how it goes with many TOTL pieces.


----------



## Thenewguy007

longbowbbs said:


> The iDSD is adequate with the HD800's. Never heard the Crack. The Decware CSP2+ worked well and is similar to the Crack. Many TOTL headphones, just like TOTL speakers need the entire chain to be at its best. So, yes, you will need to step up your game to get the best from these cans. Sorry. That is how it goes with many TOTL pieces.


 

 I'm getting a lot of conflicting answers on how much higher end equipment will improve the overall sound.
 A few people said the HD800 will still be the HD800 at its best, better at what it does good, but will never get the bass quantity of the LCD-2 or the rumble of the Fostex TH900 no matter what.


----------



## longbowbbs

thenewguy007 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > The iDSD is adequate with the HD800's. Never heard the Crack. The Decware CSP2+ worked well and is similar to the Crack. Many TOTL headphones, just like TOTL speakers need the entire chain to be at its best. So, yes, you will need to step up your game to get the best from these cans. Sorry. That is how it goes with many TOTL pieces.
> ...


 
 I appreciate the confusion. A lot boils down to how any headphone hits any specific person's personal hearing. For me, I have found great joy in the HD800's when using SET tube amps. My ALO Audio Studio Six is the best I have heard paired with the HD800's. The bass is solid, low and powerful but not muddy and probably more to the general topic, the highs are clear, smooth and non fatiguing. Frequencies soar off into the distance like they should.  This particular combo is what all the HD800 shouting is about.


----------



## Taowolf51

You want more bass? Throw a good parametric EQ on it and shape the bass exactly how you want. If you're using a PC, trying an EQ is free, and just costs a small amount of time. My HD800's are audibly flat in the bass, like the LCD-2.2.


----------



## Thenewguy007

longbowbbs said:


> I appreciate the confusion. A lot boils down to how any headphone hits any specific person's personal hearing. For me, I have found great joy in the HD800's when using SET tube amps. My ALO Audio Studio Six is the best I have heard paired with the HD800's. The bass is solid, low and powerful but not muddy and probably more to the general topic, the highs are clear, smooth and non fatiguing. Frequencies soar off into the distance like they should.  This particular combo is what all the HD800 shouting is about.


 
  
 I wish I could sample the ALO Studio Six, but I can't drop $4,000 on an amp & I would think more than 90% of HD800 owners can't either.
 BTW what are SET tubes? Can they be used with the Bottlehead Crack?
  
  
  


taowolf51 said:


> You want more bass? Throw a good parametric EQ on it and shape the bass exactly how you want. If you're using a PC, trying an EQ is free, and just costs a small amount of time. My HD800's are audibly flat in the bass, like the LCD-2.2.


 
  
  
 Any EQ settings you can share for foobar that match the bass/mids to the LCD-2's level?
 I tried this chart with the Beyer T1

  
 It definitely imitated the headphones to sound like those other headphones without the ability to make them sound like those headphones, if that makes sense.


----------



## longbowbbs

thenewguy007 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I appreciate the confusion. A lot boils down to how any headphone hits any specific person's personal hearing. For me, I have found great joy in the HD800's when using SET tube amps. My ALO Audio Studio Six is the best I have heard paired with the HD800's. The bass is solid, low and powerful but not muddy and probably more to the general topic, the highs are clear, smooth and non fatiguing. Frequencies soar off into the distance like they should.  This particular combo is what all the HD800 shouting is about.
> ...


 
 Here is a Wiki on SET's
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-ended_triode
  
 The Studio Six uses a 6SN7, a pair of 6V6's, a couple of OB2 gas regulators and a 5U4G Rectifier for stock. I added a VT-231 6SN7 variant and a USAF-596 with adapter for the Rectifier. I also put in some NOS 6V6's in place of the stock tubes. You can read my review in my signature and get a look at the amp.


----------



## rawrster

thenewguy007 said:


> I'm getting a lot of conflicting answers on how much higher end equipment will improve the overall sound.
> A few people said the HD800 will still be the HD800 at its best, better at what it does good, but will never get the bass quantity of the LCD-2 or the rumble of the Fostex TH900 no matter what.


 
  
 The best way is to see if there's either a meet or if you have a high end audio store near you to try them out. The HD800 is popular enough where it is almost at every meet. You need to try different setups for yourself to see.


----------



## Thenewguy007

longbowbbs said:


> Here is a Wiki on SET's
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-ended_triode
> 
> The Studio Six uses a 6SN7, a pair of 6V6's, a couple of OB2 gas regulators and a 5U4G Rectifier for stock. I added a VT-231 6SN7 variant and a USAF-596 with adapter for the Rectifier. I also put in some NOS 6V6's in place of the stock tubes. You can read my review in my signature and get a look at the amp.


 
  
  
 So I assume the Bottlehead Crack can't use those tubes?
 I googled & no results of SET tubes & Bottlehead came up.
  


rawrster said:


> The best way is to see if there's either a meet or if you have a high end audio store near you to try them out. The HD800 is popular enough where it is almost at every meet. You need to try different setups for yourself to see.


 
  
 I checked a few times & there is nothing close by where I live.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

longbowbbs said:


> The iDSD is adequate with the HD800's. Never heard the Crack. The Decware CSP2+ worked well and is similar to the Crack. Many TOTL headphones, just like TOTL speakers need the entire chain to be at its best. So, yes, you will need to step up your game to get the best from these cans. Sorry. That is how it goes with many TOTL pieces.




The iDSD's DAC does have a thin sound without great tone or body. Plug a good R2R DAC in your chain and you should here a significant difference (IMO of course).


----------



## johnsonfunky

The newly released "Studio Six" amplifier released by ALO Audio seems to drive the HD800 to another level as commented by reviewers. Does anyone has the chance to listen to it?
  
https://www.aloaudio.com/studio-six


----------



## Thenewguy007

wildcatsare1 said:


> The iDSD's DAC does have a thin sound without great tone or body. Plug a good R2R DAC in your chain and you should here a significant difference (IMO of course).


 

 Any recommendations for good R2R DACs?


----------



## johnjen

thenewguy007 said:


> Preconceived notion my ass!
> 
> The words I can describe the HD800's bass is thin, veiled, tiny, recessed when doing A/B tests with the LCD-2!



The 800's will present the SQ of the signal fed them, with precision.

If the matchup between the dac/amp to the 800's doesn't match the degree of SQ that the 800's are capable, then that IS what you'll hear.

800's are a Top of the Line headphone and will deliver the SQ according to what they are fed.
Think of them as being a mirror to let you know what the rest of your audio chain is capable of delivering to them.

And it's an all to common complaint to blame the SQ of the 800's based upon the SQ of the upstream gear.

Welcome to the ongoing nature of dialing in the experience of using 800's to match your preferences.

JJ


----------



## painted klown

Hey all, not sure if this has been discussed much ITT, but I notice that a vast majority of HD800 users mod their 'phones (anax seems especially popular). Anyway, I was wondering if anybody is using and enjoying the 800s bone stock. No mods, no aftermarket cables, etc?
  
 Just curious, as I have these on my "dream wish list" but I never mod any of my stuff, as I feel the engineering/design should be taken care of before I make a purchase. Additionally, I must admit that I have an absolute FEAR of messing something up REALLY bad!  LOL!


----------



## johnjen

I ran the 800's bone stock for a year or 2 before I started to fuss with the mods.
It was like the heavens opened up and all my music was to be discovered anew.

The biggest change was to the LFF (listener fatigue factor) in that I could crank the Moarknob up without being having to stop listening, due to fatigue.

JJ


----------



## Thenewguy007

johnjen said:


> The 800's will present the SQ of the signal fed them, with precision.
> 
> If the matchup between the dac/amp to the 800's doesn't match the degree of SQ that the 800's are capable, then that IS what you'll hear.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm having a hard time believing that.
 I think the LCD2 were measured very flat & neutral & when A/B'd the HD800 has a lack of bass body in the music.
  
  
 I think the wider soundstage might be the cause for the diffused body of bass. Just wonder what can bring the bass up & front (besides EQ & ultra high end amps worth more than the headphones themselves)?
 Haven't started tube rolling with the crack yet. Don't know if a high tier of tubes will give a huge change or not.


----------



## atsq17

I am highly treble sensitive and I sold my first T1 after 5 days as I couldn't handle the treble. I didn't like the HD800 for a really long time as well. 
  
 I have since realized the following:
  
 If your chain... DAC, digital cable, Amp, Interconnects, headphone cable... are all decent or top notch, the HD800 does not require any mods to sound good without any sibilance. 
  
 I am starting to think that the HD800 is so resolving that it is very sensitive to noise... even the smallest amount... will be represented to us as "sharp treble" or sibilance.


----------



## hekeli

painted klown said:


> Hey all, not sure if this has been discussed much ITT, but I notice that a vast majority of HD800 users mod their 'phones (anax seems especially popular). Anyway, I was wondering if anybody is using and enjoying the 800s bone stock. No mods, no aftermarket cables, etc?


 
  
 Vast majority? You mean a few loud forumers? Or are you seriously saying that there are 20000+ modded HD800's out there?
  
 Personally I'm waiting for Anax 3.0 and proof of it working..


----------



## johnjen

thenewguy007 said:


> Any recommendations for good R2R DACs?



There are used r2r dacs and there are new ones.

The $1250 Schiit Gumby (gungnir multibit) dac is a good place to start looking.

JJ


----------



## Khragon

thenewguy007 said:


> Any recommendations for good R2R DACs?


 

 I'm using Audio-gd Master 11, it's a R2R DAC with built-in amp, been enjoying it sound with HD800 so far, very musical and tamed the treble harness for me compared to my Gungnir (non MB).
 Also check out Audio-gd Master 7.


----------



## johnjen

thenewguy007 said:


> I'm having a hard time believing that.
> I think the LCD2 were measured very flat & neutral & when A/B'd the HD800 has a lack of bass body in the music.
> 
> *I understand.
> ...



*Its not just the amp but the amp and dac combination that determines what is fed to the 800's.

If you are into looking for a really good dac to try, the Mousai MSD192 dac is a killer deal in the ≈ $400 price range.
It will best your ifi dac by a wide margin.

As for the LCD's yes they will deliver lo-frequency power but don't have the same resolving ability that 800's have.
This is why they are often described as 'dark', because they emphasize the mids and bottom at the expense of the upper end of the spectrum.
They are also much easier to drive and are much more 'tolerant' of the upstream gear.

As I stated "Welcome to the ongoing nature of dialing in the experience of using 800's to match your preferences."

JJ*


----------



## Moonhead

Just for reference, in Europe before the dollar went up, you could get 2* HD800 for the same price of 1 LCD3, 
After the dollar went up you can now get 2* HD800 + HE560 for the same price of 1 LCD3.
Maybe that's why Audeze are more popular in the U.S. Than Europe. 


The only thing Audeze has to Sennheiser, is that is goes a smitch lower in bass, IMHO.


----------



## Thenewguy007

johnjen said:


> *Its not just the amp but the amp and dac combination that determines what is fed to the 800's.
> 
> If you are into looking for a really good dac to try, the Mousai MSD192 dac is a killer deal in the ≈ $400 price range.
> It will best your ifi dac by a wide margin.
> ...


 
  
 Hey thanks for that.
 The Mousai seems much cheaper than the other options I'm searching for R2R DACs.
 Under $1,000 for a DAC is much preferable than under $2,000 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Is there any reason why the Mousai DAC is better than the Micro dual core Burr Brown DAC chips?


----------



## Mach3

atsq17 said:


> I am highly treble sensitive and I sold my first T1 after 5 days as I couldn't handle the treble. I didn't like the HD800 for a really long time as well.
> 
> I have since realized the following:
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're a perfect example of what I mentioned earlier on.
 Most people who tried the HD800 for the first time often have the impression.
 What's this lifeless sound is worth $1500??? 
  
 HD800 philosophy is very simple, schiit in, equal schiit out.


----------



## henkie196

thenewguy007 said:


> Preconceived notion my ass!
> 
> The words I can describe the HD800's bass is thin, veiled, tiny, recessed when doing A/B tests with the LCD-2!


 
 This was actually indirectly also discussed just above this post:
  


birdmanofct said:


> I've disliked some instant ABX for those reasons. It might be easier to tell a difference, but not necessarily to tell which is better.


 
 You can certainly say that an HD800 has less bass than an LCD-2, this is simply the difference in the sound signature of the headphones. Which you prefer is a matter of personal preferences. Or music preference, for that matter.
  
 This whole discussion about getting the right combination of DAC and amp to get the sound you want from a headphone seems somewhat overkill to me, though. I'd sooner try equalising the sound on the PC or whatever and see if you can get a better match that way. Otherwise it would probably be better to just get a different headphone that closer matches you preferences.


----------



## painted klown

hekeli said:


> Vast majority? You mean a few loud forumers? Or are you seriously saying that there are 20000+ modded HD800's out there?
> 
> Personally I'm waiting for Anax 3.0 and proof of it working..


 
 Perhaps I am mistaken then, and it's simply a vocal minority who mod theirs? I was just under the impression that many users DO mod theirs to tame the treble.
  
 I meant no offense by my comment, and I really do have these at the top of my dream wishlist. I just wanted to know if these can perform at their best without having to mod them or the cable, assuming (of course) that you are feeding them with a top notch DAC/Pre-amp/amp.


----------



## Moonhead

Well you have to listen for Youself to decide if the Anax mod is something you need  
I have a cheap Forza Audio works cable only because is shorter than the standard, Cant tell Them apart running on My portable Superlux.

So you dont have to do the anax mod or get another cable, they are close to perfection the Way they are  I think most people will agree on this!


----------



## painted klown

moonhead said:


> Well you have to listen for Youself to decide if the Anax mod is something you need
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for your input. That is exactly the type of info I was looking for.


----------



## johnjen

thenewguy007 said:


> Hey thanks for that.
> The Mousai seems much cheaper than the other options I'm searching for R2R DACs.
> Under $1,000 for a DAC is much preferable than under $2,000
> 
> Is there any reason why the Mousai DAC is better than the Micro dual core Burr Brown DAC chips?


I have no idea about the "Micro dual core Burr Brown DAC chips", having never heard them.

The Mosai 192 uses the same Wolfson family WM874x dac chip as my PS Audio PWD dac.
And I heard it matched up with a pair of Senn 650's.

It was a killer matchup.

JJ


----------



## jsgraha

Like a few posters here, I did half mod of anax 2.0 (only with rug liner, without dust cover), and it does improve clarity. I did bring my modded one to compare at stock demo at my local store. Stock one sound a bit warmer actually, a bit muddy as well. While modded one, beside extra clarity, it improved bass extension and deeper stage. YMMV


----------



## johnjen

mach3 said:


> You're a perfect example of what I mentioned earlier on.
> Most people who tried the HD800 for the first time often have the impression.
> What's this lifeless sound is worth $1500???
> 
> HD800 philosophy is very simple, schiit in, equal schiit out.


Another way of looking at HD800's is to use them as the foundation to build a suitable system around them.

Yes they scale REALLY well, 
and they REALLY are that good.

JJ


----------



## JamieMcC

thenewguy007 said:


> I'm getting a lot of conflicting answers on how much higher end equipment will improve the overall sound.
> A few people said the HD800 will still be the HD800 at its best, better at what it does good, but will never get the bass quantity of the LCD-2 or the rumble of the Fostex TH900 no matter what.


 
  
 Hi, a few personal opinions/thoughts on the Crack based on my own experiences if it helps.
 .
 Personally I think he Crack in its stock form is not a particularly good match with the HD800 and when you see posts referring to Crack HD800 combo's its probably a safe bet that 99% of those comments have been made by Crack users who have gone down the upgrade path with their Cracks fitting aftermarket stepped attenuators, upgrading to boutique film signal capacitors, improved power supplies and of course have added the Speedball and splashed out on a set of expensive premium tubes. This can easily add a extra $200 - $300 to the original price of the Crack+Speedaball but  the mods can be done for less if you have the patience to shop around and scan ebay for bargains.
  
 These modifications elevate the stock Crack into a very different amp from the stock one that potentially can sound very good indeed with both the HD800 and T1 and unless you get to hear some top amp combos its going to be pretty hard to beat for a *enjoyable and engaging* listening experience rather than say for critical listening.
  
 The Crack is not a highly resolving amp so bear this in mind because  this ability is one of the HD800 strongest plus points and while the Crack is not bad it can not deliver those micro details which are perhaps the HD800 forte and a big part of what makes them so enjoyable for me at least. 
  
 So while the Crack HD800 combo can provide a very enjoyable and engaging listening experience and provide a little taster or a toe in the door if you like of what higher end sound can be like at a attractive price and also makes for a satisfying and very enjoyable diy project. The Crack even when highly modified is still a little way off in its ability to do justice to the HD800s capabilities.
  
 The Bottlehead Sex is more versatile, resolving and again can be modified to bring further gains (similar price to a tricked out Crack) more complicated to build. 
  
 BUT neither a highly modified Crack or highly modified Sex can match the Bottlehead Mainlines abilities. But at half the cost of the $1199 Mainline a modded Sex and Crack each have aspects that get are getting close (Sex resolution, sound stage & Crack midrange presence  *premium tubes required*). For those fortunate to have deeper pockets then sonic gains I  am certain still can be found however diminishing returns are well into play for subtle gains from here that can potentially cost multiples of the Mainlines asking price to achieve.


----------



## Sorrodje

I don't think someone who want to transform a HD800 into an Audeze will find any salvation with any amp or dac including Mega Kilobucks ones.  
  
@Thenewguy007: forget the HD800 and give a try to something like a LCD-X .  You'll lose your time and your money if you want Audeze sound in a HD800.


----------



## johnjen

For those of you who run systems that can utilize this approach, here is a way to EQ your STOCK 800's to ±3dB.

I am currently using their free 21 day trial and thus far I'm pleasantly impressed, even though my 800's are modified.
http://sonarworks.com/try-now/

Sonarworks out of Latvia has a 'average' EQ curve based upon many samples, which means it will tame much of the hi-freq spikes and adds bass response that is rather impressive.
Their business is aimed at recording studio professionals who require tweaked equipment. 

They also can measure your particular headphones which narrows the frequency response to ±0.9dB
I am considering sending my 800's in for this level of compensation.
Being able to achieve a truly flat FR curve to within ±0.9dB is a remarkable degree of FR precision, for any headphone.

This approach requires a s/w player with DSP to add their plug-in to, so CD players feeding your dac won't work.
And their plug-in also has the ability to adjust the final compensation to more closely match your own desires.

Interesting times in Audio indeed.

JJ


----------



## vnmslsrbms

The HD800 is a more neutral bass.  The LCD2 is like if you had a subwoofer and you just turned it up a few notches.  I love it for pop music, but the bass is actually very pronounced, making it sound warm.  Granted, then more or less neutral sound isn't always attractive.  The HD800 is also highly resolving.  Some people like it, some people don't.  Some people who don't aren't feeding it enough power.  Sometimes people don't give it enough time. Some people just like darker headphones.  It's like some people like vinyl, some like digital like CD's/digital files.  It's great with all kinds of music.  The same way some people may think the HD800 lacks bass (it's there, just not overwhelming like how some think more is better), when they put the LCD2/3 back on, they might think that the treble really is lacking instead.  It's just how it is.


----------



## hekeli

johnjen said:


> They also can measure your particular headphones which narrows the frequency response to ±0.9dB
> I am considering sending my 800's in for this level of compensation.


 
  
 Pointless since HD800 has one of the most consistent manufacturing and little variation. Your personal HRTF will affect the FR much more, so the only way to get "this level of compensation" is using your own ears to EQ.


----------



## Sorrodje

hekeli said:


> Pointless since HD800 has one of the most consistent manufacturing and little variation. Your personal HRTF will affect the FR much more, so the only way to get "this level of compensation" is using your own ears to EQ.


 
  
  
 What is "personal HRTF" ?


----------



## Fegefeuer

sorrodje said:


> What is "personal HRTF" ?


 
  
 He means one's own head shape, ear/pinnae shape etc, basically one's own hearing.


----------



## Sorrodje

Got it. Thks


----------



## ruthieandjohn

painted klown said:


> Hey all, not sure if this has been discussed much ITT, but I notice that a vast majority of HD800 users mod their 'phones (anax seems especially popular). Anyway, I was wondering if anybody is using and enjoying the 800s bone stock. No mods, no aftermarket cables, etc?
> 
> Just curious, as I have these on my "dream wish list" but I never mod any of my stuff, as I feel the engineering/design should be taken care of before I make a purchase. Additionally, I must admit that I have an absolute FEAR of messing something up REALLY bad!  LOL!



I have been loving my unmodified HD800s with matching HDVD 800 amp / DAC for over two years now. 

In fact, I always wondered, if mods such as the Anax are so necessary to tame perceived headphone "shortcomings" such as the reported HD 800 6 kHz hump, why doesn't the manufacturer include them in the original headphone design??

It is not really fair for me to say this, as I have never tried a mod myself, but sometimes mods make me remember a bit of urban legend as to why, even though eggs could be powdered and included as part of a cake mix, the cook was still required to add eggs. The action was said to be essential to causing the thought that the cook was "giving birth" to the cake and hence bonding with it. 

Perhaps we mod our headphones to bond with them in a similar ritual of birth.


----------



## MickeyVee

JJ - I think you've nailed it. It's just how much you want to scale up and be satisfied.
  
 People talk about bass quantity.  I'll take the quality, texture and depth of the HD800 bass anyday. If you want quantity, go elsewhere.  If you want quality and great balance, the HD800 may be a great way to go.
 People talk about the harsh treble.  Sorry, I just don't get it.  Tried a number of Annex mods and ended up removing them.  I found that I always lose something.
  
 I've hear'd the HD800 in dozens of systems at meets and retailers and have gone through Schiit and Woo with some decent DACss and although really good, felt myself wanting a little more. Based on personal experience, a balanced HDVD800 would be the minimum for me and relative to the price of the HD800, that seems reasonable.  I ended up with the Naim DAC-V1 and the McIntosh MXA70/MHA100 just because I got killer deals on them. Although I find the Naim and McIntosh to be nearly indistinguishable, I take the McIntosh to meets as it garnished the attention.  Go figure.
  
 People have different needs and hear differently.  Base the decision on your needs.  As far as music goes, I enjoy the HD800 with pretty much anything from Deadmou5 to Patricia Barber to Supertramp.  My setup works for me. YMMV.
  
 The HD800 is a great base for a system to build upon.  I've been through a lot of stuff (check my gallery) and settled on the HD800.  Enjoy the music.  Enjoy the journey!
  
  
 Quote:


johnjen said:


> Another way of looking at HD800's is to use them as the foundation to build a suitable system around them.
> Yes they scale REALLY well,
> and they REALLY are that good.
> 
> JJ


----------



## rawrster

ruthieandjohn said:


> I have been loving my unmodified HD800s with matching HDVD 800 amp / DAC for over two years now.
> 
> In fact, I always wondered, if mods such as the Anax are so necessary to tame perceived headphone "shortcomings" such as the reported HD 800 6 kHz hump, why doesn't the manufacturer include them in the original headphone design??
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm all for mods and it can improve a headphone based on a person's preferences. I used to own a T50RP that sounded much better after it was modified compared to stock so I do see the value in doing so. When I had my first pair of HD800's a few years ago I tried the mod that was posted on the innerfidelity website. I don't know which version of the mod it is but I did not like it as much as stock. I felt it took away more than it improved. Of course with different mods, it may improve the sound for someone but I'm happy with the stock headphone.
  
 The only change I have from stock is I have an after market HD800 cable since I wanted a balanced cable for my amp and it sounds very good to me. It also doesn't make sense that the cable from Sennheiser is so expensive.


----------



## Sorrodje

Current Anax mod has nothing to do with Previous ones and Tyll's version I think. 
  
 Some of us use rugliner in the cup and we're removing the Dust covers  :
  

  
 made with that product ;


----------



## raybone0566

sorrodje said:


> Current Anax mod has nothing to do with Previous ones and Tyll's version I think.
> 
> Some of us use rugliner in the cup and we're removing the Dust covers  :
> 
> ...


 Could you comment on the improvements with this mod. Thanks


----------



## Sorrodje

Dust covers removed = improvement in clarity, precision, resolution with the caveat of improved sharpness as well. 
 Rugliner : you keep the improvements aforementionned and tame the hardness/harshness/sharpness. 
  
 No ****ed up treble or collapsed soundstage.. Easy to make and to remove. cheap. 
  
 Win win game in my opinion.  Improvements are not huge but significant enough for me. it didn"t transform the HD800 in anything else though.
  
 The main purpose of a real anax mod and derivatives is to allow more room when we have to choose gear.  with stock HD800 , warm amp or dac are welcome then you probably loose some technicalities ( resolution, soundstage, ambiance, textures mostly.. all what is relative to micro dynamics).. with the mod, it's more easy to use more neutral and resolving gear.
  
 Even people who listen to well recorded/mastered music can benefit  from the mod due the resolution and clariy improvements. Different rugliners can be used with different results. considering it's perfectly reversible , everyone can try and make his own opinion.


----------



## jsgraha

Plus it seem improve bass extension and slightly deeper stage. I might try Velvet mod next if I had a chance


----------



## ubs28

I use the HD800 stock with the Chord Hugo. There is a spike in the 6khz region, but it is fine.

My AKG 240 which producers use for mixing are alot more bright than the HD800 in stock.

The amplifier makes a difference. I prefer the Chord Hugo over the HDVD800 because the HDVD800 adds alot of colour (probably as a result of the high output impedance). So if you want less treble / more bass, then high output impedance amplifiers like the HDVD800 / HDVD600 could work. ( i personally don't like them though )


----------



## Liu Junyuan

sorrodje said:


> Current Anax mod has nothing to do with Previous ones and Tyll's version I think.
> 
> Some of us use rugliner in the cup and we're removing the Dust covers  :
> 
> ...




I also use rug liner, but I notice an absence of felt in yours (unless I am not seeing clearly). Are you using the liner without the felt?


----------



## Sorrodje

liu junyuan said:


> I also use rug liner, but I notice an absence of felt in yours (unless I am not seeing clearly). Are you using the liner without the felt?


 
  
 Indeed


----------



## raybone0566

sorrodje said:


> Dust covers removed = improvement in clarity, precision, resolution with the caveat of improved sharpness as well.
> Rugliner : you keep the improvements aforementionned and tame the hardness/harshness/sharpness.
> 
> No ****ed up treble or collapsed soundstage.. Easy to make and to remove. cheap.
> ...


 Is there a video out or a thread for steps on implementing this mod.? I'd really like to try this one out.


----------



## Sorrodje

Nope. but I have to prepare some Rugliner for someone in next days. I'll take pics and maybe measurements of what I do and post this here..  I use Dust covers as patterns. then te rugliner fit in the cup without any glue .. That's easy to put and to pull off. 
  
 The first step is to remove the dust covers and try to see if you hear the aforementionned improvements. if not, just put back the covers and forget the mod. easy and costless.


----------



## preproman

sorrodje said:


> warm amp or dac are welcome then you probably loose some technicalities ( resolution, soundstage, ambiance, textures mostly.. all what is relative to micro dynamics).. with the mod, it's more easy to use more neutral and resolving gear.


 
  
 This is a very good point.  I see people always trying to setup up a warm amp with warm tubes and a warm DAC to pair with the HD800.  Wrong - IMO...  Get the best resolving gear you can and let the HD800s go to work.  All these warm tubes and amp just handicaps the HD800s.  There are some really good resolving tubes amps out here like some of the EC amps.  Even some of them can be too lean sounding thou.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thenewguy007 said:


> Any recommendations for good R2R DACs?




Affordable R2Rs are the DAC Lite 60, that has tube output used vintage R2R such as Theta, Monarchy, Audio Note, and more. Drop over to the Vintage R2R Thread, you will find a lot of information there.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thenewguy007 said:


> Hey thanks for that.
> The Mousai seems much cheaper than the other options I'm searching for R2R DACs.
> Under $1,000 for a DAC is much preferable than under $2,000
> 
> Is there any reason why the Mousai DAC is better than the Micro dual core Burr Brown DAC chips?




Take a look at the DAC Lite 60, it has 1704 chips and a tube output.


----------



## Taowolf51

thenewguy007 said:


> Any EQ settings you can share for foobar that match the bass/mids to the LCD-2's level?
> I tried this chart with the Beyer T1
> 
> 
> It definitely imitated the headphones to sound like those other headphones without the ability to make them sound like those headphones, if that makes sense.


 
  
 I use Equalizer APO with the Peace GUI, I'd recommend it over the graphic EQ in Foobar simply because it gives you a lot more control (since it isn't limited to set "bands").
 This is the graph I use:
  
 Preamp: -7db
  
 10Hz         +6db    Q 0.3
 2000Hz      +2db    Q 1.41
 6500Hz      -2db     Q 3
 15000Hz    -2db     Q 1
  
 It looks like this (this is not the FR of the headphones, just a visual of the EQ itself):

  
 It doesn't make them sound like the LCD-2 per-se, I think the LCD-2 is *way* too dark, so it mostly flattens the bass and compensates for a few little issues (like the treble spike). I'm still working on it, since I only recently got the Peace GUI (which makes things much easier). It was also made for anax modded HD800's, so the treble spike compensation is less intense than what I would use on a stock HD800. I used a mix of Tyll's HD800 graphs and the Audiocheck's spectral flatness test (so they are somewhat calibrated to my ears and system). They're pretty darn flat up until maybe 1500Hz, but I may still have more work to do with them.
  
 Yeah, you're not going to get a headphone to sound exactly like another headphone using EQ. EQ only really changes FR, it doesn't affect technicalities. FR makes a big difference for sure, but technicalities are where the real character of the headphone lies IMO.
  


johnjen said:


> For those of you who run systems that can utilize this approach, here is a way to EQ your STOCK 800's to ±3dB.
> 
> I am currently using their free 21 day trial and thus far I'm pleasantly impressed, even though my 800's are modified.
> http://sonarworks.com/try-now/


  

 I've been interested to try this, I may sometime soon. What do you think of it so far?
  


ruthieandjohn said:


> In fact, I always wondered, if mods such as the Anax are so necessary to tame perceived headphone "shortcomings" such as the reported HD 800 6 kHz hump, why doesn't the manufacturer include them in the original headphone design??


  

 Because Senn's engineers needed to worry about durability and deterioration of materials, modders don't. Sennheiser needs to make sure the HD800's last years/decades, and the soft/fragile materials used in the anax mod wouldn't last as long as the rest of the headphones. Modders, however, don't have any real limitations and can decide for themselves that they are willing to make and install the mod with the knowledge that they may have to remake and replace it every few years.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

sorrodje said:


> Current Anax mod has nothing to do with Previous ones and Tyll's version I think.
> 
> Some of us use rugliner in the cup and we're removing the Dust covers  :
> 
> ...




Did you cut the rug liner in the shape of the Anax Mod posted on Innerfidelity? Do you have a template?

Thanks!


----------



## Sorrodje

preproman said:


> This is a very good point.  I see people always trying to setup up a warm amp with warm tubes and a warm DAC to pair with the HD800.  Wrong - IMO...  Get the best resolving gear you can and let the HD800s go to work.  All these warm tubes and amp just handicaps the HD800s.  There are some really good resolving tubes amps out here like some of the EC amps.  Even some of them can be too lean sounding thou.


 
  
 Absolutely. Trying to tame the HD800 with the gear is a fundamental Mistake. It took time for me to realize it.  EQ or mod it if you feel the need to fix something and improve the quality of what you feed the HD800 with . That's the way to go. Nothing new under the sun though. 
  


wildcatsare1 said:


> Did you cut the rug liner in the shape of the Anax Mod posted on Innerfidelity? Do you have a template?
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 I made some templates with cut dust covers  . Will take the time to explain what I did.


----------



## Oregonian

thenewguy007 said:


> I'm using the DAC from the iFi Micro iDSD, It's been rated very highly & was recommended over a slew of other DAC.
> The amp I'm using is the Bottlehead Crack, also highly recommended & on the high end of the mid tier amps (without going into the thousands of $$$).
> 
> Now, if you mean I need to spend $5,000 on a DAC & $3,000 to $7,000 on a amp to "correct" the thin veiled bass issues well then, can't really argue with you on that.


 

 Honestly, coming from being a basshead who loved the Sony XB500, out of my Pioneer Spec vintage system, the bass is OUTSTANDING and far from lacking.  Not thin in any way, shape or form.


----------



## henkie196

ubs28 said:


> I use the HD800 stock with the Chord Hugo. There is a spike in the 6khz region, but it is fine.
> 
> My AKG 240 which producers use for mixing are alot more bright than the HD800 in stock.
> 
> The amplifier makes a difference. I prefer the Chord Hugo over the HDVD800 because the HDVD800 adds alot of colour (probably as a result of the high output impedance). So if you want less treble / more bass, then high output impedance amplifiers like the HDVD800 / HDVD600 could work. ( i personally don't like them though )


 
 The spike in the upper mids / lower treble would give me a headache if listening at moderate to higher levels for a longer time, but since I normally only listen at low volumes, it's not normally a problem. There are definitely brighter headphones that I've heard.
  
 I'm not sure that the high output impedance makes that much of a difference - the headphone out of my NAD stereo amplifier is supposed to have a fairly high output impedance (60-80 Ohm is what I've seen here and there), but I don't hear any difference to listening it out of my NAD as compared to running them directly from my DX90.


----------



## Oregonian

painted klown said:


> Hey all, not sure if this has been discussed much ITT, but I notice that a vast majority of HD800 users mod their 'phones (anax seems especially popular). Anyway, I was wondering if anybody is using and enjoying the 800s bone stock. No mods, no aftermarket cables, etc?
> 
> Just curious, as I have these on my "dream wish list" but I never mod any of my stuff, as I feel the engineering/design should be taken care of before I make a purchase. Additionally, I must admit that I have an absolute FEAR of messing something up REALLY bad!  LOL!


 

 Bone stock other than a Norne Vanquish cable - and only made that change for it being shorter and wanting a more flexible cable.  Love it as it came but then again, I'm not susceptible to harshness in the highs like some folks are.


----------



## Thenewguy007

khragon said:


> I'm using Audio-gd Master 11, it's a R2R DAC with built-in amp, been enjoying it sound with HD800 so far, very musical and tamed the treble harness for me compared to my Gungnir (non MB).
> Also check out Audio-gd Master 7.


 
  
 Those seem to be priced in the $2,000 range. Out of my budget
  


johnjen said:


> *If you are into looking for a really good dac to try, the Mousai MSD192 dac is a killer deal in the ≈ $400 price range.
> It will best your ifi dac by a wide margin.*


 
  
  


wildcatsare1 said:


> Take a look at the DAC Lite 60, it has 1704 chips and a tube output.


 
  
   
What would b the difference in sound between the The DAC Lite 60 & Mousai MSD192? Both are relatively cheap.

  
 What would the improvements be over my iFi Micro iDSD DAC?
  
 The more I'm reading the thread, the more I feel I need a better DAC than a better amp.
 I might be willing to spend $1,200 on a DAC & then just buy a cheap amp for the HD800 rather the other way around.


----------



## Arnotts

johnjen said:


> For those of you who run systems that can utilize this approach, here is a way to EQ your STOCK 800's to ±3dB.
> 
> I am currently using their free 21 day trial and thus far I'm pleasantly impressed, even though my 800's are modified.
> http://sonarworks.com/try-now/
> ...


 
 Using the free trial with my HD800's now. It does very well in improving the realism of the HD800's. I'll be using this until I get all the materials for the Anax mod. Highly recommended for those that recognise the imperfections with the HD800's. These are amazing headphones, but they're clearly not perfect


----------



## Thenewguy007

preproman said:


> This is a very good point.  I see people always trying to setup up a warm amp with warm tubes and a warm DAC to pair with the HD800.  Wrong - IMO...  Get the best resolving gear you can and let the HD800s go to work.  All these warm tubes and amp just handicaps the HD800s.  There are some really good resolving tubes amps out here like some of the EC amps.  Even some of them can be too lean sounding thou.


 
  
  


sorrodje said:


> I don't think someone who want to transform a HD800 into an Audeze will find any salvation with any amp or dac including Mega Kilobucks ones.
> 
> @Thenewguy007: forget the HD800 and give a try to something like a LCD-X .  You'll lose your time and your money if you want Audeze sound in a HD800.


 
  
 So nothing will bring up the mid-bass/body of bass to the HD800 forward?
 I'm liking the headphones & if they have just bring forward that extra musicality that the LCD-2 has, it will be perfect
  
 For example, the bass riff in 'Seven Nation Army' sounds so anemic. This is the first time I ever heard the music in that song sound so thin.
 Vocals, drum kick & details in the song are the best I ever heard, but the bass guitar that is like 90% of the song is so diffused. Ruins the song.
  
 With the LCD-2, the song sounds like  what I heard a million times before, just with better detail & resolution. The bass riff up & front like it should be.
  
 I still want to keep the HD800 over the LCD2, despite not liking as much for music listening.
 The detail & stage is much better on it, it is just lacking that extra part to make it perfect.
  


vnmslsrbms said:


> The HD800 is a more neutral bass.  The LCD2 is like if you had a subwoofer and you just turned it up a few notches.  I love it for pop music, but the bass is actually very pronounced, making it sound warm.  Granted, then more or less neutral sound isn't always attractive.
> The same way some people may think the HD800 lacks bass (it's there, just not overwhelming like how some think more is better), when they put the LCD2/3 back on, they might think that the treble really is lacking instead.  It's just how it is.


 
  
 LCD2 definitely does not have subwoofer bass. I asked in the basshead thread & the LCD2 isn't even considered to be listed. Subwoofer bass would be something like the Fostex TH900.
 The LCD2 is more of a mid-bass, mid-range headphone, but it does lack treble.
 I sorta fixed that with the brighter Micro iDSD DAC & with the cross-feed option on, It closes the gap with the HD800.


----------



## jlbrach

i go back and forth between my HD800 and my LCD-3F and i love both of them but the sense of spaciousness and incredible detail the HD800 provides are addictive to me


----------



## subtle

thenewguy007 said:


> So nothing will bring up the mid-bass/body of bass to the HD800 forward?


 
  
 An excellent source and quality amplification are really the only things that will do the trick.

 Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm definitely not saying this in an insulting manner, but you're just not going to get there with mid-fi gear.  This isn't an issue relegated to you.  I see this as a pretty large problem on head-fi.  Lots of people are willing to fork over four figures for a high-end flagship headphone but they're only willing to spend about $300-500 on a source and maybe another $300-1000 on amplification.  That's just really not going to get it done unfortunately.

 My recommendation is to simply start saving.  Be content with what you have and save for quality components.  Far too many times have I seen people just go from one $500 source/amp to another thinking they're going to get lucky and strike oil.  It ain't gonna happen.  By the time those same people try five or six different options they could have just saved for one quality component and not have eaten multiple shipping charges and Paypal fees.

 Just do the research.  Save your cash....and win.


----------



## longbowbbs

subtle said:


> thenewguy007 said:
> 
> 
> > So nothing will bring up the mid-bass/body of bass to the HD800 forward?
> ...


 
 +1  Yep.....


----------



## TMRaven

Or you could just EQ the bass up.  Much more profound result with much less money spent.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thenewguy007 said:


> Those seem to be priced in the $2,000 range. Out of my budget
> 
> 
> 
> ...





If it was me, I would look at the DAC Lite 60 (with Voskhod tubes Bugle Boys aren't dynamic, IMO) and the Valhalla 2 or maybe a Gumby 2. Can't speak to the Mousai MSD 192, haven't heard one. Or see what you can find on the market in Vintage R2R. Lots of Guys with much more experience than me, JJ, etc., that can add to those recommendations.

You will get more body, better tone, dynamics, and bass slam (with the right tubes) with a good R2R over the iFi. I have the iDSD Nano and I think they use the same chip.


----------



## Thenewguy007

subtle said:


> but you're just not going to get there with mid-fi gear.  This isn't an issue relegated to you.  I see this as a pretty large problem on head-fi.  Lots of people are willing to fork over four figures for a high-end flagship headphone but they're only willing to spend about $300-500 on a source and maybe another $300-1000 on amplification.  That's just really not going to get it done unfortunately.
> My recommendation is to simply start saving.  Be content with what you have and save for quality components.  Far too many times have I seen people just go from one $500 source/amp to another thinking they're going to get lucky and strike oil.  It ain't gonna happen.  By the time those same people try five or six different options they could have just saved for one quality component and not have eaten multiple shipping charges and Paypal fees.
> 
> Just do the research.  Save your cash....and win.


 
  
 lol I was fearing this.
 Problem is that there are so many DAC & amp throughout the years, still in production & discontinued, that I don't know what categorizes as mid-fi or high-fi. Searching through older threads that praise stuff from 5 years ago, might be completely outdated or still up to date, I just don't know.
  
 Like the Matrix X Sabre DAC & the Metrum Octave MkII DAC are over a grand, are said to be musical & have glowing reviews. I seen them in the classified from time to time at a lower price, but do they qualify as the high-fi gear needed to make the HD800 shine or are just a side step in the mid-fi gear.
  
 Or do I literally have to spend $2,000 each on a DAC & amp to get anywhere to the HD800 full potential.


----------



## johnjen

hekeli said:


> Pointless since HD800 has one of the most consistent manufacturing and little variation. Your personal HRTF will affect the FR much more, so the only way to get "this level of compensation" is using your own ears to EQ.


I'd be interested in hearing what Sonarworks response to your assertions would be.

It is their claim after all and they are in the biz at the professional level.

JJ


----------



## rawrster

thenewguy007 said:


> lol I was fearing this.
> Problem is that there are so many DAC & amp throughout the years, still in production & discontinued, that I don't know what categorizes as mid-fi or high-fi. Searching through older threads that praise stuff from 5 years ago, might be completely outdated or still up to date, I just don't know.
> 
> Like the Matrix X Sabre DAC & the Metrum Octave MkII DAC are over a grand, are said to be musical & have glowing reviews. I seen them in the classified from time to time at a lower price, but do they qualify as the high-fi gear needed to make the HD800 shine or are just a side step in the mid-fi gear.
> ...


 
  
 It depends on the gear. Unfortunately, price is not indicative of how good it will be so it can be difficult. I've spent somewhere between 2-3k combined for my dac and amp and it does sound very good. My setup is not at the point where moving up will not bring any improvements. My dac is older (in terms of when it was released) and is my limiting factor. However I do believe I am at the point where to get a good enough increase (for me at least so YMMV) I would need to spend a considerable amount more.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

For DACs, I can vouch for the Gungnir MB, which falls exactly within your price-range. It is so far an outstanding DAC, above my vintage Theta certainly. It is also R2R if that is your thing.


----------



## johnjen

taowolf51 said:


> snip
> I've been interested to try this, I may sometime soon. What do you think of it so far?
> 
> snip



Thus far it REALLY helps the low end, way more than my previous fussing.
There does seem to be some etch or edgyness to the upper mids/top end.
I'm not sure if it’s the 800's or the s/w that attenuates the 6-8K peak or what but it is only apparent when certain music plays at elevated spl's.

To my way of describing it the LFF (listener fatigue factor) takes a step up in only a certain range of freqs, which seem to be around the infamous 5.5 to 8KHz area.

And to be fair it could be that I'm using the 'wrong' eq curve for my modded 800's.


JJ


----------



## johnjen

thenewguy007 said:


> lol I was fearing this.
> Problem is that there are so many DAC & amp throughout the years, still in production & discontinued, that I don't know what categorizes as mid-fi or high-fi. Searching through older threads that praise stuff from 5 years ago, might be completely outdated or still up to date, I just don't know.
> 
> Like the Matrix X Sabre DAC & the Metrum Octave MkII DAC are over a grand, are said to be musical & have glowing reviews. I seen them in the classified from time to time at a lower price, but do they qualify as the high-fi gear needed to make the HD800 shine or are just a side step in the mid-fi gear.
> ...


As has been mentioned by me and others 800's are truly State of the Art headphones and they WILL present to your ears precisely what the source signal feeds them.
As I said think of the mirror analogy.

The LCDs are WAY more forgiving and much less source signal picky.

So at this point it's more about what you want, and how to get there, rather than what specifc gear you should be buying.

Also it will help your wallet, a WHOLE bunch to look for used gear, especially Schiit gear because the cost to obtain it in this way is WAY less.

And as I mentioned 800's are a good foundation upon which to build your system, over time. 
Where as LCD's are much more general and so you'll arrive at a satisfying system much easier and faster.

I'd also suggest (if your system can accommodate it) the Sonarworks trial to get an idea of what real bass can sound like from 800's. 

This of course is also dependant upon the upstream gear, even so given your budegtary constraints and newness to this portion of the hobby, as was mentioned, perhaps 800's are too much too soon, for you.

It took me several years to arrive at a satisfying system that sucked me into the music such that I stopped thinking/analysing and just got carried away by the music.

JJ


----------



## Taowolf51

johnjen said:


> Thus far it REALLY helps the low end, way more than my previous fussing.
> There does seem to be some etch or edgyness to the upper mids/top end.
> I'm not sure if it’s the 800's or the s/w that attenuates the 6-8K peak or what but it is only apparent when certain music plays at elevated spl's.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's possible that their "reference" isn't quite right, and may be too bright.


----------



## JamieMcC

After finding my 20 year old PS1 playstation in my parents attic today whilst looking for something else I couldn't resist hooking it up to the Mainline and playing some tunes. Clean, smooth, polite but musical spring to mind but not so good at resolving those micro details with the HD800's.   Fun experimenting anyhow and a change of presentation etc from the norm for a while. I suspect its probably not going to worry any of todays midfi offerings but its really not bad at all I guess for something that can be found for pocket change now on the bay.


----------



## johnjen

taowolf51 said:


> It's possible that their "reference" isn't quite right, and may be too bright.


Yeah and it could be that their s/w still needs some refinement in terms of how it 'reacts' to very narrow Q peaks and valleys that are close together in the frequency domain.

It sort of sounds like a form of ringing or unwanted s/w reactivity to certain complex and extended harmonic structures, like a voice, or saxophone or trumpets etc.

Still the overall effect is proving to be of benefit, as long as the glare/etch/harshness doesn't get triggered.

JJ


----------



## Thenewguy007

liu junyuan said:


> For DACs, I can vouch for the Gungnir MB, which falls exactly within your price-range. It is so far an outstanding DAC, above my vintage Theta certainly. It is also R2R if that is your thing.


 
  
 You know the only Schiit product I ever seen that was praised as end gear & not had any detractors was the Yggdrasil.
  
 Even their Ragnarok amp gets mixed reviews from what I read.
  
 Would the Gungnir be a better option than the Matrix X Sabre DAC or the Metrum Octave MkII?
  
  
 Would that be a real jump over the much cheaper DAC Lite 60 & Mousai MSD192.
  


johnjen said:


> And as I mentioned 800's are a good foundation upon which to build your system, over time.
> 
> This of course is also dependant upon the upstream gear, even so given your budegtary constraints and newness to this portion of the hobby, as was mentioned, perhaps 800's are too much too soon, for you.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I refuse to believe that the $3,000 end gear will give a 300% to to 500% improvement over a sub $1,000 gear.
 From all that I read diminishing returns start hitting hard after the $1,000 range. Realistically 20-30% improvement is what $3k dac/amps will give over $1k dac/amps.
  
 I don't need that extra 20-30%.
 I would be fine at getting 80% of the HD800. I just need to know what the best equipment is needed to achieve that 80%


----------



## Taowolf51

thenewguy007 said:


> I refuse to believe that the $3,000 end gear will give a 300% to to 500% improvement over a sub $1,000 gear.
> From all that I read diminishing returns start hitting hard after the $1,000 range. Realistically 20-30% improvement is what $3k dac/amps will give over $1k dac/amps.
> 
> I don't need that extra 20-30%.
> I would be fine at getting 80% of the HD800. I just need to know what the best equipment is needed to achieve that 80%


 
  
 It really seems like your problem is more in the profile of the sound rather than in the quality of it.
  
 At least that's what it seems like reading your posts.


----------



## jlbrach

i would say the diminishing returns are even more pronounced than 20-30%....i would say it can be 10% but people want that 10% and will pay for it..a large part of the whole audiophile experience is psychic....in many ways if you believe something sounds better you will believe it.I know i myself suffer from the same thing...you read numerous reviews suggesting one product is better than another and you have to have it even if the differences are marginal......this is not confined to audio,it is the human condition and we all do it whether it is wines,cars etc....


----------



## johnjen

thenewguy007 said:


> You know the only Schiit product I ever seen that was praised as end gear & not had any detractors was the Yggdrasil.
> 
> Even their Ragnarok amp gets mixed reviews from what I read.
> 
> ...



Then get the Mosai MSD 192 dac, the Garage 1217 Project Sunrise 3 amp and a pair of HD650's.
For ≈ 1K$ this is the schidt.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/770073/seattle-secret-meet-5-31-2015

And if you want to 'accessorize' the setup, get an outboard lab grade power supply for the amp, better wires and do the reverse polarity trick.

This setup WILL put a smile on your face. (Thank you AtomicBob for this wonderful setup!)

JJ
ps don't believe everything you read.
Even the Jggy dac has detractors
Not everyones tastes will match your own.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Take a breath. Listen to some music. Enjoy.


----------



## Thenewguy007

taowolf51 said:


> It really seems like your problem is more in the profile of the sound rather than in the quality of it.
> 
> At least that's what it seems like reading your posts.


 

 Nah, I like the sound signature. *I LOVE the clarity, resolution & soundstage*, best I ever heard. I just want the bass/mid-bass/mid-range to be a bit more forward is all.
   
The iFi iDSD DAC & stock Bottlehead Crack just isn't doing it for the bass/mids.

  
 If I didn't own the LCD-2 to do side by side comparison, I doubt I would be complaining about the bass sounding too thin.
 But I do have it & I want the HD800 to at least be somewhat at striking distance within it.
  
 Don't want miracles, but do want a amp or dac that can honestly make the bass & mids come out from hiding.


----------



## Taowolf51

thenewguy007 said:


> Nah, I like the sound signature. *I LOVE the clarity, resolution & soundstage*, best I ever heard. I just want the bass/mid-bass/mid-range to be a bit more forward is all.


 
  
 Oh, that's exactly what I mean. You love the sound quality (stuff like resolution, clarity, etc.), but don't like the frequency response.


----------



## Zoom25

Attaching percentages to sound upgrades this and that - I see this type of perception a lot on Head-fi and other audio sites. To this day, I still can't attach numerical values in the way they are commonly used. For me at least, It just doesn't correspond with how I listen and enjoy music.


----------



## pearljam50000

Is anyone using the HD800 with the Apogee Groove?


----------



## johnjen

thenewguy007 said:


> Nah, I like the sound signature. *I LOVE the clarity, resolution & soundstage*, best I ever heard. I just want the bass/mid-bass/mid-range to be a bit more forward is all.
> 
> [COLOR=FF00AA]Then play with EQ[/COLOR]
> 
> ...


In order to achieve "I want the HD800 to at least be somewhat at striking distance within it." then it will take more robust electronics upstream.
As was recently pointed out on InnerFidelity, 800's need PLENTY of voltage swing delivered to them in order to deliver their full potential, which is where you want to head.
This usually means more $$$$.

For instance my Rok is a 100watt power amp running 4watts of class A power with very high voltage power supply rails (±90 volts if memory serves) with an extremely low output impedance.
When driving HD800's using all of perhaps 100mW of power at ear shattering volumes, clearly this is 'overkill', by any technical measure.

What does this mean?
This amp can and does drive the 800's very well.
Because it has what it takes in order to do so.

And the DAC has to keep pace as well.
I'll sell you my PWD as soon as I can replace it with a Jggy.
It has an exceptional low end.

You've just started playing with the big boys on a beer budget and running into limitations.
The learning curve is steep, which is why I recommended the 1K$ system just to get your feet wet with minimal frustration and stellar results.

JJ


----------



## rawrster

johnjen said:


> In order to achieve "I want the HD800 to at least be somewhat at striking distance within it." then it will take more robust electronics upstream.
> As was recently pointed out on InnerFidelity, 800's need PLENTY of voltage swing delivered to them in order to deliver their full potential, which is where you want to head.
> This usually means more $$$$.
> 
> ...


 
  +1
  
 There really isn't any way around it. I remember a few years back a bunch of members were powering the HD800 with some $100 or so Fiio desktop amp and wondering why it didn't sound very good. You need quality gear with the HD800 and that does not come cheap. There are exceptions such as buying older or discontinued products that sell for cheaper. Of all the headphones I have owned or heard the HD800 is top 2 when it comes to how sensitive a headphone is towards the chain. I would agree that 1k is a good place to start. The dacs and amps in the 1k price range can make the HD800 sound very good. It won't be at the very best but could be good enough for many. The best option would be to either save up for quality gear or keep looking in the FS forums, audiogon, audio mart, etc. and look for good deals.
  
 That LCD-2 however does not scale as high as the HD800 and does not need the best gear to sound good. The bass quantity of it will always be more than the HD800 regardless of what you do since that's just how it is voiced. If you want the bass of the LCD-2 then you need to look elsewhere.


----------



## RUMAY408

thenewguy007 said:


> Nah, I like the sound signature. *I LOVE the clarity, resolution & soundstage*, best I ever heard. I just want the bass/mid-bass/mid-range to be a bit more forward is all.
> 
> The iFi iDSD DAC & stock Bottlehead Crack just isn't doing it for the bass/mids.
> 
> ...


 

 Hit a Head-Fi meet do your research and go to HiFi shark hit the Amp search every day and buy from a good seller it will make the dollars go farther
 Going from a Meier Audio Corda Classic amp to a Headamp GSX-mk2 cost 3-4X's but HD800 improvement well that's priceless but here is my estimate
 Bass bump 200% literally as good as my LCD-3F
 Mids increase 30%
 Soundstage better 30%
 Imaging 20%
 Treble 10%
  
 WA5 with close to a 5K upgrade in Tubes add 10% to above


----------



## pervysage

So I have a Audio-Gd Master 11 on the way in the next week or 2 and am in need of a balanced cable for my HD800. What is the best option to go for? The official Sennheiser balanced cable or a different aftermarket brand? Is the official Sennheiser one overpriced for what it is?
  
 If aftermarket, anyone got any suggestions?


----------



## atsq17

pervysage said:


> So I have a Audio-Gd Master 11 on the way in the next week or 2 and am in need of a balanced cable for my HD800. What is the best option to go for? The official Sennheiser balanced cable or a different aftermarket brand? Is the official Sennheiser one overpriced for what it is?
> 
> If aftermarket, anyone got any suggestions?




Imho sennheiser brand cable is waste of money

Norne draug if you want to warm it up.

I got norne solv and its awesome


----------



## painted klown

johnjen, 
  
 I see you are considering the Schiit Yiggy. Are you moving from another Schiit DAC, or something entirely different?
  
 Also, I see you have the Schiit Rag. 
  
 How do you feel it does with the HD-800? 
  
 Additionally, I would love to hear your impressions of the Rag with other 'phones as well, if you don't mind.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Thenewguy007

rawrster said:


> +1
> 
> There really isn't any way around it. I remember a few years back a bunch of members were powering the HD800 with some $100 or so Fiio desktop amp and wondering why it didn't sound very good. You need quality gear with the HD800 and that does not come cheap.


 
  
 I'll say this, while the HD800 doesn't sound best with low end gear it also doesn't sound bad. You can still get a wow experience with the right records & genre of musics on a budget.
 Compared to my Beyer T1, that sounded bad with the wrong gear & absolutely needed higher end tube amps to sound good imo.
  
  
  


johnjen said:


> As was recently pointed out on InnerFidelity, 800's need PLENTY of voltage swing delivered to them in order to deliver their full potential, which is where you want to head.
> This usually means more $$$$.


 
  
 Yeah I saw that, HD800 needs more voltage rather than current to drive properly.
 So what should I specifically look for on product description pages? Do many manufacturers list voltage swings for their amps?

  
  


rumay408 said:


> Hit a Head-Fi meet do your research and go to HiFi shark hit the Amp search every day and buy from a good seller it will make the dollars go farther
> Going from a Meier Audio Corda Classic amp to a Headamp GSX-mk2 cost 3-4X's but HD800 improvement well that's priceless but here is my estimate
> Bass bump 200% literally as good as my LCD-3F
> Mids increase 30%
> ...


 
  
 For 3 grand I would expect that much of an improvement, but I would be happy with something that can bump the bass to maybe 75% more, mids to 25% & soundstage 10% more.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Incidentally, I did miss out on a few good amps in the classifieds, because I wasn't sure they were good enough & hesitated on pulling the trigger.
 DNA Sonnet 2, Woo Audio WA2, Auralic Taurus MKII.
 All those were within my new budget, but just could not convince myself to get them before they were snatched up.
  
 I hate playing the wait game trying to see if something good comes up. Like a few people suggested the Eddie Current Super 7 & to buy it  *if *it ever gets put up for sale somewhere. That could take months.


----------



## thecrow

wa2 with appropriate tubes, perhaps?
  
 there's an angle (and some threads) to look at


thenewguy007 said:


> For 3 grand I would expect that much of an improvement, but I would be happy with something that can bump the bass to maybe 75% more, mids to 25% & soundstage 10% more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## thecrow

johnjen said:


> .
> 
> So at this point it's more about what you want, and how to get there, rather than what specifc gear you should be buying.
> 
> ...


 
 YES!!!!
  
  
 After 10 months with the hd800, this is where I have evolved to too
  
 (I happily go between enjoying and analysing that are so much entwined)


----------



## johnjen

painted klown said:


> johnjen,
> 
> I see you are considering the Schiit Yiggy. Are you moving from another Schiit DAC, or something entirely different?
> 
> ...


Currently my Dac is a PSA PWD Mk I-II one of the tweako units.
It is an exceptional dac in many many ways and it scales really well so it still isn't the 'weak link' in my system.

But I've been tracking the Jggy ever since they announced it back in 2010 or thereabouts.
And the more I learned and heard and absorbed the reports of its capabilities etc the more intrigued I've become.
I will get one when my situation allows.

The Rok is a stellar amp for the 800's. It may not have the euphonic 'richness' of tubes but it does have harmonic richness like tubes but with SS bass and control everywhere.
It has an ability to disappear regardless of what is thrown at it or is plugged into it.
I wrote up a post about why I like it so much in one of the threads that deals with the Rok.

I've prety much concentrated on the 800's and so have limited experience with anything else, except for a new pair of LCD-x's.
I personally didn't care for them for a variety of reasons but still I can see where they would be a good choice for some who simply don't want to have to deal with the 'pickyness' of 800's.

In my system they simply didn't deliver an eqivalent degree, in any acoustic aspect, of any desirable trait, including the bass, that I look for.

But they are MUCH easier to get dialed in to be satisfying.

JJ


----------



## thecrow

taowolf51 said:


> Oh, that's exactly what I mean. You love the sound quality (stuff like resolution, clarity, etc.), but don't like the frequency response.


 
 Yes, yes, yes.
  
 Good luck with the search Thenewguy007.
  
  
 It's not always easy.


----------



## johnjen

thenewguy007 said:


> snip
> Yeah I saw that, HD800 needs more voltage rather than current to drive properly.
> So what should I specifically look for on product description pages? Do many manufacturers list voltage swings for their amps?
> snip



All tubes use hi voltage rails and some SS designs do as well but usually you have dig down to find out.

That being said there is much more to it than merely a hi voltage power supply.
The output impedance, the ability to deliver power (current), the type of design of the amp for instance, are all important aspects that influence how the amp will drive high impedance loads such as the 800's

OTL (Output Transformer Less) amps for instance do really well for hi-impendace headphones but they are usually current limited because the tube is directly coupled to the load. 
And generally speaking tubes are primarily a voltage device whereas SS designs are current devices, and really you need both to adaquately drive highly resolving HP's, such as 800's.

This is why a matchup between the amp and HPs is so important but then the signal being fed into the amp becomes important because it IS the signal the amp delivers to the HP's.

Finding a good matchup between these 3 components is the trick and why it can take much fussing and head scratching to 'get there'.

And since you have, it seems, very little experience in these matters, finding a well matched system so that you can know what really good sound truly is, will really help.
It establishes a base line from which you can then experiement with changes and improvements and move towards 'better'.
But without this baseline of experience much floundering will occur.

We all go thru this phase and when we reach a level of SQ that is intriguing and satisfying, THEN we can determine if changes we try truly are an improvement, or not.

And so it goes.

JJ


----------



## johnjen

thecrow said:


> YES!!!!
> 
> 
> After 10 months with the hd800, this is where I have evolved to too
> ...


Yes!
That is an added aspect, to be able to engage in both activities and flip back and forth.
double your pleasure double your fun.
Until the music becomes IMPERATIVE and then all semblance of control is lost.

JJ :atsmile:


----------



## JamesBr

johnjen said:


> Yes!
> That is an added aspect, to be able to engage in both activities and flip back and forth.
> double your pleasure double your fun.
> Until the music becomes IMPERATIVE and then all semblance of control is lost.
> ...


 
 That's poetry right there


----------



## thecrow

johnjen said:


> Yes!
> That is an added aspect, to be able to engage in both activities and flip back and forth.
> double your pleasure double your fun.
> Until the music becomes IMPERATIVE and then all semblance of control is lost.
> ...


Actually reading that has got me thinking that perhaps I should have bought the he560s and not the hd800s last year. 

I found that when I was demo-ing the he560s I kept forgetting to take critical notice of the headphone and was just caught up in the music. However the unique detail coming out of the hd800s won me over. And if I had bought the he560s I would have thought (from time to time) "I wonder what this album would sound like with the hd800s?"

(It's great having these choices and seeing what gear does what for each individual. I always get that sense and enjoy seeing that when I'm in my local audio store)

As I said at the time it was a bummer the store didn't have a "buy one get one free offer" at the time I looked at the hd800/he560.


----------



## vnmslsrbms

thenewguy007 said:


> I'll say this, while the HD800 doesn't sound best with low end gear it also doesn't sound bad. You can still get a wow experience with the right records & genre of musics on a budget.
> Compared to my Beyer T1, that sounded bad with the wrong gear & absolutely needed higher end tube amps to sound good imo.


 
  
 Have you tried to LCD3‘s?  They seem to be a better fit for you.  Or they're too dark?


----------



## Taowolf51

thenewguy007 said:


> Yeah I saw that, HD800 needs more voltage rather than current to drive properly.
> So what should I specifically look for on product description pages? Do many manufacturers list voltage swings for their amps?


 
  
 Most amp manufacturers do not list voltage numbers. I do, however, know that the Valhalla 2 is capable of 60V p-p, and the V1 is 30V p-p (simply because Jason mentioned it in his book).
  
 Really, it seems like you're looking in the wrong place. You said you're happy with the qualities of the sound (things like detail, soundstage, transients, etc.), but just want more bass. Spending thousands on amps and dacs that are likely pretty linear to try to change your frequency response seems kinda silly to me. Especially considering you already have a really colored amp already (the Crack). Your crack is likely more colored than most high end amps. I mean hell, the Crack has a 120 ohm output impedance! That's crazy! The lack of driver control from that is likely already giving you a nice boost in the lower areas (likely around 100Hz according to the HD800's impedance graph), and is likely more than you would get with a lower output impedance amp. That reduced driver control is also likely increasing the length of the decay in the bass, increasing the overall bass energy and the perception of bass quantity.
  
 New amps and DACs are great when you want to enhance sound quality, when you want more detail, better imaging, lower noise, etc. But when it comes to changing frequency response, it's like bringing a solid gold hammer into surgery.
  
 I'm not against upgrades, I'm actually in the market for a new DAC now, but based on what you've said you want, I'm not sure whether you'd end up getting what you want by upgrading your components.
  
 And you don't need to worry about EQ's "ruining" the sound quality. A good software EQ is transparent, and just about every piece of music you listen to likely has multiple software EQ's baked into them already.


----------



## ubs28

rumay408 said:


> Hit a Head-Fi meet do your research and go to HiFi shark hit the Amp search every day and buy from a good seller it will make the dollars go farther
> Going from a Meier Audio Corda Classic amp to a Headamp GSX-mk2 cost 3-4X's but HD800 improvement well that's priceless but here is my estimate
> Bass bump 200% literally as good as my LCD-3F
> Mids increase 30%
> ...


 

 I'm interested in the GSX-MK2 amp and pair it with the Chord Hugo but I simply can't find a local dealer that has it. How much better is it over the Taurus MK2?


----------



## Thenewguy007

vnmslsrbms said:


> Have you tried to LCD3‘s?  They seem to be a better fit for you.  Or they're too dark?


 

 I wanted the best quality bass & the best quality detail.
 The LCD2 rev.1 & the HD800 fit the bill.
  
 I didn't look into the LCD3 too much, but from what I gathered it was a HD800 lite & dialed down the bass too much from the LCD2.
 Doesn't have the soundstage or imaging on par with the HD800 & doesn't have the fuller more enveloping bass of the LCD2 rev.1.
  
 It is stuck in between, being better overall in most categories than those two, but never besting the specific things the LCD2/HD800 do the best.
  
 Or I could be wrong. It's price was also as much as the HD800 & LCD2 combined.


----------



## elvergun

taowolf51 said:


> Most amp manufacturers do not list voltage numbers. I do, however, know that the Valhalla 2 is capable of 60V p-p, and the V1 is 30V p-p (simply because Jason mentioned it in his book).
> 
> Really, it seems like you're looking in the wrong place. You said you're happy with the qualities of the sound (things like detail, soundstage, transients, etc.), but just want more bass. Spending thousands on amps and dacs that are likely pretty linear to try to change your frequency response seems kinda silly to me. Especially considering you already have a really colored amp already (the Crack). Your crack is likely more colored than most high end amps. I mean hell, the Crack has a 120 ohm output impedance! That's crazy! The lack of driver control from that is likely already giving you a nice boost in the lower areas (likely around 100db according to the HD800's impedance graph), and is likely more than you would get with a lower output impedance amp. That reduced driver control is also likely increasing the length of the decay in the bass, increasing the overall bass energy and the perception of bass quantity.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Someone finally gave Thenewguy007 some good advice (instead of sending him on a fool's errand that will set him back hundreds of dollars). 
  
  
 Thenewguy007, these are your options (IMO):
 1)  Learn how to EQ your headphones.
 2)  Give the HD800 more time and don't listen to other bass heavy headphones.  You might end up liking the HD800 signature.
 3)  Sell your HD800s and buy another model with more bass.
 4)  Buy another bassier, high-end headphone to compliment your Sennheiser.   Many HD800 owners have other headphones which they use for music genres that the HD800 does not do quite right.   When I listen to stuff like EDM I leave my HD800 alone and reach for my D2000 instead. 
  
 5)  Sell your HD800...and buy another pair in a year or so.   It seems like the second time's the charm with this model.


----------



## icebear

thenewguy007 said:


> I'll say this, while the HD800 doesn't sound best with low end gear it also doesn't sound bad. You can still get a wow experience with the right records & genre of musics on a budget.
> Compared to my Beyer T1, that sounded bad with the wrong gear & absolutely needed higher end tube amps to sound good imo.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You haven't listed any info in your profile, specifically what you preferred musical genre is.
  
 You can listen to all the recommendations of matching certain amps with certain headphones and discussion of current vs voltage and low output vs high output impedance. Tube vs solid state and lots of more factors. Go down the equipment rabbit hole and be sorry for you wallet
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 In the end you might realize that the HD800 is just transparent. It is telling you what is on the recording. If the recording sucks, these headphones will tell it like it is. No amp will make it sound good, it might sound a little less bad but still it will never sound great.
  
 High quality jazz and classic recordings from a musical source that is not artificially pushing the high frequency to impress in a short listening (like TV screens set on high vivid in a store display) will let you hear all details without any harshness via the HD800. Acoustic bass will sound accurate and like the real thing, the specific resonance of the wooden instrument body is obvious. No the HD800 is not for bass heads, it is accurate. If that type of realism is what you strive for then upgrade your source first and then get an amp that is not getting in the way of the music. If your musical preference is something else, sell the HD800 and be happy with another headphone.


----------



## jlbrach

I didn't look into the LCD3 took much, but from what I gathered it was a HD800 lite & dialed down the bass too much from the LCD2.
Doesn't have the soundstage or imaging on par with the HD800 & doesn't have the fuller more enveloping bass of the LCD2 rev.1.
  
It is stuck in between, being better overall in most categories than those two, but never besting the specific things the LCD2/HD800 do the best.
  
Or I could be wrong. It's price was also as much as the HD800 & LCD2 combined.
  
 this is very much incorrect,the LCD-3F is wonderful and gives my HD800 a run for its money....i love the spacious feel and detail of the 800 but the LCD-3F is one of the very best headphones in the world..I have listened to most of the contenders and they are fantastic!Different than the 800 for sure but just as good in their own way


----------



## whirlwind

oregonian said:


> painted klown said:
> 
> 
> > Hey all, not sure if this has been discussed much ITT, but I notice that a vast majority of HD800 users mod their 'phones (anax seems especially popular). Anyway, I was wondering if anybody is using and enjoying the 800s bone stock. No mods, no aftermarket cables, etc?
> ...


 
 Yep, stock here also, except for Norne Draug 2.....I adore the sound


----------



## BirdManOfCT

More bass and cheap? Maybe Bose or Koss?


----------



## Thenewguy007

icebear said:


> You haven't listed any info in your profile, specifically what you preferred musical genre is.
> In the end you might realize that the HD800 is just transparent. It is telling you what is on the recording. If the recording sucks, these headphones will tell it like it is. No amp will make it sound good, it might sound a little less bad but still it will never sound great.


 
  
 I got that bad recordings will sound even worse with the HD800, that really doesn't bother me at all.
 To me, the HD800 sounds like it has a veil over the midbass/lower midrange area. I just want that veil gone.
  


taowolf51 said:


> Really, it seems like you're looking in the wrong place. You said you're happy with the qualities of the sound (things like detail, soundstage, transients, etc.), but just want more bass. Spending thousands on amps and dacs that are likely pretty linear to try to change your frequency response seems kinda silly to me. Especially considering you already have a really colored amp already (the Crack).


 
  
 A few people flat out said, their higher end equipment does significantly improve the bass & mid frequency. Some say it doesn't.
 A read so many conflicting reports, so many conflicting answers, so many different opinions, I am at stage zero again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The stock Crack also didn't really do anything to the bass. It made the headphone sound smoother,  warmer & it did improve the spacing/soundstage a bit. Bass & mids were still held back though.
   
Maybe buying higher end amps & DACs directly from Amazon & taking advantage their 14 day return policy if they don't live up to the hype?

 This wouldn't be considered exploiting their system, would it?


----------



## Taowolf51

thenewguy007 said:


> A few people flat out said, their higher end equipment does significantly improve the bass & mid frequency. Some say it doesn't.
> A read so many conflicting reports, so many conflicting answers, so many different opinions, I am at stage zero again.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's because amps don't actually change a whole lot FR-wise. Most good amps are +- 1db throughout the audible frequencies, while you're looking for a 7db+ boost in bass. Really high output impedances can boost/cut certain frequencies (based on the impedance curve), but you're not really going to find an amp with a higher output impedance than the Crack.
  
 You said the Crack changed elements of the sound like soundstage, smoothness, etc, but didn't change the FR. This fits what I said earlier, amps are great for enhancing the sound quality (through technicalities), but doesn't change the FR much. The Crack is pretty damn colored for an amp and it barely (maybe inaudibly) changed the FR, now imagine how little of a difference less colored amps will make. Certain elements like better driver control can make the bass more snappy or punchy, which gives an impression or more or less bass (depending), but if you want to actually increase bass output, I don't think a new amp is going to do a whole lot.
  
 You can do that with Amazon, I once even asked them if doing stuff like that was a problem and they told me they only consider it an issue once you've done it a bunch of times in a small timeframe. Also, any decent online audio site will offer a 30 day no-questions-asked return policy in case you don't like the gear you ordered. Go ahead and try the gear, have fun and see if they work for you. 
 And if you want, if you're running Windows on your headphone system and have average-ish experience with computers (can install and uninstall programs, and navigate the file explorer, etc.), PM me and I can walk you through trying the EQ I told you about. It costs nothing but a bit of time.


----------



## olor1n

Stop reading and endeavour to listen to gear with your own ears. Or just sell the HD800 and get something more to your liking that doesn't require you to agonise over your gear and limited budget.

Most here love the HD800's articulate bass and accurate mids. You won't convince anyone who has dedicated some thought into building a system for the HD800 otherwise.


----------



## logscool

I'm thinking about making the plunge and getting the HD800 from either buysonic for 1200 or refurbished from crutchfield for 1100. Any recommendations one way or the other? I'm very much on the fence about doing it or a different headphone (likely some high end planar) but it's a headphone I've lusted after ever since it came out.


----------



## potkettleblack

logscool said:


> I'm thinking about making the plunge and getting the HD800 from either buysonic for 1200 or refurbished from crutchfield for 1100. Any recommendations one way or the other? I'm very much on the fence about doing it or a different headphone (likely some high end planar) but it's a headphone I've lusted after ever since it came out.


 

 Audition all the ones you are interested in before making any hasty decisions. You may be surprised.


----------



## logscool

potkettleblack said:


> Audition all the ones you are interested in before making any hasty decisions. You may be surprised.



I would certainly love to, but I don't have a good way of doing so.


----------



## Thenewguy007

logscool said:


> I would certainly love to, but I don't have a good way of doing so.


 
  
 What other headphone were you specifically considering?


----------



## Buddhahacker

logscool said:


> I would certainly love to, but I don't have a good way of doing so.


 
 If you don't have a Hi-Fi shop local you can reach out to Livesoundwave.com.  They are out of Orlando and have a nice audition program where for a nominal fee you get to audition a variety of gear for several days and they cover the shipping costs.
  
https://www.livesoundwave.com/en-us/livesoundwave


----------



## logscool

buddhahacker said:


> If you don't have a Hi-Fi shop local you can reach out to Livesoundwave.com.  They are out of Orlando and have a nice audition program where for a nominal fee you get to audition a variety of gear for several days and they cover the shipping costs.
> 
> https://www.livesoundwave.com/en-us/livesoundwave


 
 Wow thanks for the recommendation at $30 for 3 days the audition fee seems very reasonable and they have audeze lcd 2 and x and hd800.
  
 Other headphones on my potential list are the audeze lcd 2/3/x, mr.speakers ether, hifiman he 560.
  
 Basically while I have tried many closed back headphones and pretty well dialed in what I want I have very little experience with open headphones. I am really looking for just one pair of open headphones that I really love much like I have found the alpha prime for closed headphones.


----------



## RUMAY408

thenewguy007 said:


> For 3 grand I would expect that much of an improvement, but I would be happy with something that can bump the bass to maybe 75% more, mids to 25% & soundstage 10% more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 If you want to buy new from what I have personally heard the WA22 it is the best in your price range at <$2000 I have personally tried
  
 I bought the GSX-mk2 for $2100 from a head-fi member, I waited and watched for a year, and balanced in and out it is the best I have heard from <$8000
  
 Longbowbobs says the >$4000 is the best he's heard, I have no doubt he's right, but have not personally experienced the ALO Studio Six


----------



## HiAudio

Is it a good or bad idea to use my NuForce icon HDP as DAC and use its analog output to the analog input of HDVA 600 for HD800? I found one authorized dealer has HDVA 600 new at $1275 on sale.
  
 Or an open box HDVD 800 at about $1600? I have concern about its quality or potential problem and I have no means to know if it has such problem.


----------



## Thenewguy007

buddhahacker said:


> If you don't have a Hi-Fi shop local you can reach out to Livesoundwave.com.  They are out of Orlando and have a nice audition program where for a nominal fee you get to audition a variety of gear for several days and they cover the shipping costs.
> 
> https://www.livesoundwave.com/en-us/livesoundwave


 

  Wasn't there a similar site that let you rent headphones?
 I forgot the link to it.


----------



## logscool

thenewguy007 said:


> Wasn't there a similar site that let you rent headphones?
> I forgot the link to it.


 
 I know that the cable company also does but I remember their prices being much higher but I'll have to check again.


----------



## JamieMcC

thenewguy007 said:


> I got that bad recordings will sound even worse with the HD800, that really doesn't bother me at all.
> To me, the HD800 sounds like it has a veil over the midbass/lower midrange area. I just want that veil gone.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hi tell us about your Crack what tubes you are using does it have the speedball or any modifications from the stock version?
  
 There are some really inexpensive mods you can do which can give nice improvements in the areas you mention.
  
 I'll suggest a couple of inexpensive options for starters that are tried and tested and known to give results.
  
 $13 C7X Triad Choke will really help tighten up the bass and provide better impact will also significantly lowers the noise floor resulting in a inky black background.
  
 $10 Russian Teflon capacitor bypass's, adding these can bring increased resolution smother less sibilant top end as well as a audible improvements across all frequencies.
  
 $10 find your self a Svetlana 6N13S Winged C output tube.
  
 Spending $30 odd bucks is going to bring some nice improvements in the areas you mention.


----------



## Thenewguy007

jamiemcc said:


> Hi tell us about your Crack what tubes you are using does it have the speedball or any modifications from the stock version?


 
  
  
 Just the stock tubes & no speedball.
  

 Bought it second hand & I'm not comfortable soldering upgrades, so no speedball unless I sell/re-buy a new one.


----------



## Sorrodje

rumay408 said:


> If you want to buy new from what I have personally heard the WA22 it is the best in your price range at <$2000 I have personally tried
> 
> I bought the GSX-mk2 for $2100 from a head-fi member, I waited and watched for a year, and balanced in and out it is the best I have heard from <$8000


 
  
 What other competitors did you hear against the WA22 and the GXmKII ?


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Just listening and enjoying at the moment. That's rare for me, usually I'm too analytical. Nice sound.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

I wonder if some bass-heads are trying to get something they can't, or can only approximate -- that pressure wave from speakers in the upper bass, or the feeling in your bones of the mid to lower bass. Might be able to approximate it by tight headphones that end up pressuring bones in your head so you feel it. But, seems like that muddies the sound in the headphones I've listened to.


----------



## JamieMcC

thenewguy007 said:


> Just the stock tubes & no speedball.
> 
> 
> Bought it second hand & I'm not comfortable soldering upgrades, so no speedball unless I sell/re-buy a new one.


 

 Ok I expect if you added some location info to your profile and posted for some help with mods on the Crack thread or Bottlehead forum you might find someone local to who would be able to offer some assistance with them. In the mean time make a $10 investment and swap out that 6080 tube for a Svetlana 6N13S Winged C output tube its a nice improvement over the stock 6080 tubes normally included in the kit. Your HD800's will thank you for it!


----------



## Thenewguy007

Anyone with high end DAC & amp every try running the the HD800 through just the amplifier & then just through the DAC?
  
 What makes the bigger improvement or sound change?

 Reading that since the HD800 is so revealing, a higher quality DAC could make a drastic improvement in improving the sound signature over an amp.
   
 

 With my experience, the amps always make the bigger difference, but I only owned one DAC & can't comment on it's quality compared to higher end DACs.


----------



## Sorrodje

IME , both amp and source makes a significant difference for the HD800.  Still nothing that change the inner nature of HD800 though.


----------



## longbowbbs

rumay408 said:


> thenewguy007 said:
> 
> 
> > For 3 grand I would expect that much of an improvement, but I would be happy with something that can bump the bass to maybe 75% more, mids to 25% & soundstage 10% more.
> ...


 
 Here is a shot of the HD800's today with the Studio Six and the VPI Scout 1.1. I am also using the ALO Phono Stage that powers off the Studio Six. Currently listening to Alan Parsons via the Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 DSDse at DSD64....Toxic Cables Silver Widow 22's on the HD800's.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

longbowbbs said:


> Here is a shot of the HD800's today with the Studio Six and the VPI Scout 1.1. I am also using the ALO Phono Stage that powers off the Studio Six. Currently listening to Alan Parsons via the Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 DSDse at DSD64....Toxic Cables Silver Widow 22's on the HD800's.




Beautiful!


----------



## icebear

thenewguy007 said:


> Anyone with high end DAC & amp every try running the the HD800 through just the amplifier & then just through the DAC?
> What makes the bigger improvement or sound change?
> Reading that since the HD800 is so revealing, a higher quality DAC could make a drastic improvement in improving the sound signature over an amp.
> With my experience, the amps always make the bigger difference, but I only owned one DAC & can't comment on it's quality compared to higher end DACs.


 
  
 The HD800 will reveal every short coming of your set up. Starting with the music/recording, continuing with the DAC and the amp. The HD800 doesn't need a certain voltage to be driven, it just needs a first class signal to be fed and then it will sound great. If the amp is crappy although it has lots of power, it will not make the HD800 sound good. It's the other way around the HD800 will let you hear that the amp is crap.
  
 Given your preferred music style, 
  
 [quote: Music Preferences :  Mostly everything.
 Rock, pop, rap (not the new stuff).  Very little country, jazz, acoustics & classical though.] unquote
  
 ... just get rid of the HD800. Even if you upgrade your set up for 5k's, you will not be happy.
 The HD800 will just continue to show you the short comings in the recordings.
  
 But still to answer your question:
 I believe the source will have to be first class. The amp ideally is only providing the power to move the drives in the headphone in a controlled fashion.
 It's not there to minimize any flaws coming from your source but to amplify the goodness that is already there.


----------



## RUMAY408

sorrodje said:


> What other competitors did you hear against the WA22 and the GXmKII ?


 

 WA5 fully pimped out 4X's (Royal Sophia Princess Tubes $1200 each), WA7, Cavalli Liquid Crimson and Carbon, every Schiit amp including the Rag, Sennhiser HDVD 600 and 800, Yulong Sabre Amp/DAC, Audio-gd Master 8, iFi combo's, OPPO HA-1, Cary HH-1, Meier Stack and more I can't think of 
  


longbowbbs said:


> Here is a shot of the HD800's today with the Studio Six and the VPI Scout 1.1. I am also using the ALO Phono Stage that powers off the Studio Six. Currently listening to Alan Parsons via the Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 DSDse at DSD64....Toxic Cables Silver Widow 22's on the HD800's.


 
 The VPI is sweet the ALO amp even sweeter


----------



## vnmslsrbms

hiaudio said:


> Is it a good or bad idea to use my NuForce icon HDP as DAC and use its analog output to the analog input of HDVA 600 for HD800? I found one authorized dealer has HDVA 600 new at $1275 on sale.
> 
> Or an open box HDVD 800 at about $1600? I have concern about its quality or potential problem and I have no means to know if it has such problem.


 
 The HDVD's DAC seems to be not as well received.  So if you like the HDVA 600 just use that, and you can switch the DAC as you like.  There are better options from Nuforce even for DACs too.  
  


thenewguy007 said:


> snip
> A few people flat out said, their higher end equipment does significantly improve the bass & mid frequency. Some say it doesn't.
> snip


 
 You're taking the improvement a bit too liberally.  Sure it improves the bass impact and how the mids come out, but it's still the same headphone.  Honestly, you're still stuck looking for more bass.  No good amp is going to make the HD800 all of a sudden have MORE bass (that's an amp coloring the sound).  Just BETTER bass.  If you really want more bass boost with the HD800 just use an EQ to give you what you want.  Otherwise try some bass heavier (not bass head level) phones like the LCD3F or Beyerdynamic.


----------



## Mach3

vnmslsrbms said:


> The HDVD's DAC seems to be not as well received.  So if you like the HDVA 600 just use that, and you can switch the DAC as you like.  There are better options from Nuforce even for DACs too.
> 
> You're taking the improvement a bit too liberally.  Sure it improves the bass impact and how the mids come out, but it's still the same headphone.  Honestly, you're still stuck looking for more bass.  No good amp is going to make the HD800 all of a sudden have MORE bass (that's an amp coloring the sound).  Just BETTER bass.  If you really want more bass boost with the HD800 just use an EQ to give you what you want.  Otherwise try some bass heavier (not bass head level) phones like the LCD3F or Beyerdynamic.


 
  
 HDVD DAC isn't well received because it a real let down to the amp section. Quite a few DAC I've audition surpass it around the $500 mark. Example Yulong D100MkII
 Much better off getting the HDVD600 and getting a proper separate DAC IMO.


----------



## Thenewguy007

icebear said:


> The HD800 will just continue to show you the short comings in the recordings.


 
  
 A lot of people make it seems like 90% of recording are poorly made.
 I heard stuff in the '60s & '70s sound clearer, cleaner & with more musical details then I ever heard before in my life.
 Most modern songs from the '90s & up are as good as they get in sound recording quality.
  
 I did mentioned a few pages how little authority the bass was & how overall bad the song 'Seven Nation Army' (a modern recorded song) sounded through the HD800.
 Looking up info on that recording, it was made with old school analog equipment dating from pre-1960 & they faked the bass guitar sound with some tricks used with a regular guitar through a whammy pedal.
  
 No wonder it sounded so bad with the HD800.


----------



## henkie196

thenewguy007 said:


> A lot of people make it seems like 90% of recording are poorly made.


 
 Your post seems to suggest that you also agree, but lets just say that for the overwhelming majority of the recordings / masterings, sound quality doesn't seem to have been a priority.


----------



## johnjen

thenewguy007 said:


> A lot of people make it seems like 90% of recording are poorly made.
> I heard stuff in the '60s & '70s sound clearer, cleaner & with more musical details then I ever heard before in my life.
> Most modern songs from the '90s & up are as good as they get in sound recording quality.
> 
> ...




Here is a 'clue' to what 800's are really all about.

When your playback system 'clicks' and it, as I put it, 'gets out of its own way', that "made with old school analog equipment dating from pre-1960…" track will become intrguing because you will hear the inner details and be able to identify by listening, not reading about, what the strengths and weaknesses of that track truly are.

IOW it won't matter how poorly the recording is, you will hear precisely just went into making that recording, and it will be intriguing in and of itself, warts, and all. 

JJ


----------



## henkie196

That's one way of looking at it, I suppose. I tend to think of those warts as distractions and would prefer to just enjoy the music without all the imperfections dragging my attention away from the music.


----------



## TokenGesture

henkie196 said:


> That's one way of looking at it, I suppose. I tend to think of those warts as distractions and would prefer to just enjoy the music without all the imperfections dragging my attention away from the music.


 

 I find this with many live recordings - so much audience noise is revealed, makes it hard to focus.  Sometimes the HD800 is too truthful


----------



## Ali-Pacha

HD800 are the ultimate "Dolby OFF" headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## joshk4

Don't take people opinions to heart and as gospel. 

As I'm in the camp that believes hd 800 is great with the portable amp oppo ha 2, as well as the hdvd 800.

Really need to test the gear yourself if it's possible.


----------



## daphen

joshk4 said:


> Don't take people opinions to heart and as gospel.
> 
> As I'm in the camp that believes hd 800 is great with the portable amp oppo ha 2, as well as the hdvd 800.
> 
> Really need to test the gear yourself if it's possible.


 
 Oh, is that so. That sounds cool. I mean, to be able to experience the HD800 even if one doesn't have $2k to put on amps and dacs.


----------



## joshk4

daphen said:


> Oh, is that so. That sounds cool. I mean, to be able to experience the HD800 even if one doesn't have $2k to put on amps and dacs.




To my ears... the difference between the two is small. You can definitely enjoy the hd 800 still. But again, that's me. Everyone has different opinions and that's normal.


----------



## daphen

joshk4 said:


> To my ears... the difference between the two is small. You can definitely enjoy the hd 800 still. But again, that's me. Everyone has different opinions and that's normal.


 
 Yes, I'm just under the impression that people, especially in audio forums, are really elitistic and tend to argue that the difference is so big that you absolutely have to spend a billion dollars on surrounding equipment to get your headphones to sound good. I'm not trying to say that there isn't a difference, I just think that some people blow stuff out of proportion.
 If you don't have unlimited resources but can get a hold of an HD800 there's nice to see that it's still subjective regarding amps and dacs.
 I mean, the HDVD800 is 2000 euro where I love. The HA-2 is 350 euro. The difference in sound to justify that price gap should make the headphones sound fifteen times as good, yet to regular people the difference might not even be noticable. (I haven't tried both side by side so don't quote me on that, it was just speculation to get my point across)


----------



## rawrster

joshk4 said:


> Don't take people opinions to heart and as gospel.
> 
> As I'm in the camp that believes hd 800 is great with the portable amp oppo ha 2, as well as the hdvd 800.
> 
> Really need to test the gear yourself if it's possible.


 
  
 I can't agree with this. The HD800 can sound good with mid-fi gear depending on what it is. A crack+speedball sounds good and is what I would get if I wanted a tube amp that cost around $500 or less. The first time I owned these headphones I had a Mjolnir amp which was around $700 or so at the time and that sounded very good. However sounding great is where I consider the HD800 is around the level of the SR007. IMO, a well matched HD800 system should be around the same level as a SR007 until the KGSSHV (or better amps) where it slightly moves ahead. While a mid-fi system with the HD800 is good and definitely better than that same system with a lower tier headphone such as the HE-560, DT880, etc. it certainly is not quite at the level of the HD800.


----------



## longbowbbs

daphen said:


> joshk4 said:
> 
> 
> > To my ears... the difference between the two is small. You can definitely enjoy the hd 800 still. But again, that's me. Everyone has different opinions and that's normal.
> ...


 
 I have been around audio now for nearly 40 years. When I sold gear many years ago it was apparent that many people were willing to spend significant amounts of money for smaller incremental improvements. The price performance curve is not linear, it is logarithmic. The last 2% might cost 3 times as much as the 98% level...sometimes even more. Is it worth it? That depends on your desire and your wallet. Then you add bling like fancy milled metal cases and wire made of unicorn horn and there you go. There will never be a "Reasonable" efficiency model of twice the money equals twice the quality. You do not get that in most things. Cars, Watches, Houses.....
  
 The store I worked for back in the early 80's had a bang for the buck mentality. We used to ask our clients, When you are home with your gear and all of your friends have gone home are you happy with what you are hearing? if so, then it is great gear for you. If not then we can help you get there." 
  
 People who were too concerned with others opinions never could catch up with the Jones'....Just my observations from 40 years of audio.


----------



## daphen

longbowbbs said:


> I have been around audio now for nearly 40 years. When I sold gear many years ago it was apparent that many people were willing to spend significant amounts of money for smaller incremental improvements. The price performance curve is not linear, it is logarithmic. The last 2% might cost 3 times as much as the 98% level...sometimes even more. Is it worth it? That depends on your desire and your wallet. Then you add bling like fancy milled metal cases and wire made of unicorn horn and there you go. There will never be a "Reasonable" efficiency model of twice the money equals twice the quality. You do not get that in most things. Cars, Watches, Houses.....
> 
> The store I worked for back in the early 80's had a bang for the buck mentality. We used to ask our clients, When you are home with your gear and all of your friends have gone home are you happy with what you are hearing? if so, then it is great gear for you. If not then we can help you get there."
> 
> People who were too concerned with others opinions never could catch up with the Jones'....Just my observations from 40 years of audio.


 
 Yes yes, of course there are incremental improvements, but then again, people tend to be so elitistic. An HD800 isn't going to sound BAD because your AMP doesn't cost $4000.


----------



## longbowbbs

daphen said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I have been around audio now for nearly 40 years. When I sold gear many years ago it was apparent that many people were willing to spend significant amounts of money for smaller incremental improvements. The price performance curve is not linear, it is logarithmic. The last 2% might cost 3 times as much as the 98% level...sometimes even more. Is it worth it? That depends on your desire and your wallet. Then you add bling like fancy milled metal cases and wire made of unicorn horn and there you go. There will never be a "Reasonable" efficiency model of twice the money equals twice the quality. You do not get that in most things. Cars, Watches, Houses.....
> ...


 
 True....What is important is to pair it effectively. My best lower cost amp with the HD800's was the Decware CSP2+. It was under $1000 and it was a terrific pairing. Cheap tubes too!


----------



## Sorrodje

daphen said:


> Yes yes, of course there are incremental improvements, but then again, people tend to be so elitistic. An HD800 isn't going to sound BAD because your AMP doesn't cost $4000.


 
  
 Absolutely.
  
 But on the other side , you don't know what the HD800 is REALLY capable of until you hear it from a dedicated well choosen TOTL rig.  Some headphones sounds basically the same from everything. the HD800 does not. period.
  
 Trust me , I was exactly at the same point than you two years ago ... until I plugged my HD800 to an Eddie Current Balancing Act.   
  
 The point is that I can advice you better headphones system than a HD800 + entry level system .  HD600 or HE500 for example are better bets for that kind of budget in my humble opinion. Something like a Stax entry level system is IME better than an average HD800 system.


----------



## henkie196

rawrster said:


> joshk4 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't take people opinions to heart and as gospel.
> ...


 
 I believe he is also saying that the HD800 can sound good with mid-fi gear. I also agree with that. If I just run the HD800 directly from my DX90, it sounds good. Perhaps it would sound a little better if I put it on a good desktop amp, but that is not worth the loss of mobility to me (to be able to walk around the house freely).
  
 I wouldn't say the HD800 is _definitely_ better than a HE-560, though. The differences are in the details. A HD800 is brighter sounding than the slight V-shape of a HE-560, the HD800 was a quicker attack and decay than the more relaxed sounding HE-560, but overall the differences are pretty minor. If you like faster and a bit more neutrality, the HD800 is probably more your thing. If you like more bass and a somewhat more relaxed sound, the HE-560 is probably more your thing.
  


daphen said:


> Yes, I'm just under the impression that people, especially in audio forums, are really elitistic and tend to argue that the difference is so big that you absolutely have to spend a billion dollars on surrounding equipment to get your headphones to sound good. I'm not trying to say that there isn't a difference, I just think that some people blow stuff out of proportion.
> If you don't have unlimited resources but can get a hold of an HD800 there's nice to see that it's still subjective regarding amps and dacs.
> I mean, the HDVD800 is 2000 euro where I love. The HA-2 is 350 euro. The difference in sound to justify that price gap should make the headphones sound fifteen times as good, yet to regular people the difference might not even be noticable. (I haven't tried both side by side so don't quote me on that, it was just speculation to get my point across)


 
 It does strike me as odd that people here are so willing to spend so much money on amps and DACs, or rather that people choose to spend more money on amps and DACs than they do on the headphones themselves. The headphone makes the biggest difference to the sound, the rest is mostly just tweaking some minor details.
  
 I've listened to the HE-560 on my DX90, on the headphone out of my NAD C375 (+NAD DAC) and on a Vorzüge Pure II and couldn't detect much difference. The biggest difference was mostly that the Vorzüge wasn't quite as neutral as the rest of the sources (and that it gave me a headache).
  
 I've also listened to the HD800 on both the DX90 and the NAD, and again there is very little difference to my ears. Perhaps a headphone amp that costs more than my NAD costs would sound better, but I'm not willing to spend that much on only a headphone amp.


----------



## daphen

sorrodje said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> But on the other side , you don't know what the HD800 is REALLY capable of until you hear it from a dedicated well choosen TOTL rig.  Some headphones sounds basically the same from everything. the HD800 does not. period.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Are you saying that an HD600 with an Oppo HA-2 sounds better than an HD800 with an Oppo HA-2?
 I already tested the HD650 and HD700 and to my ears, the HD700 sounds a lot better with my Fiio E17, I sold my HD650 after listening to the HD700.
  
  


henkie196 said:


> I believe he is also saying that the HD800 can sound good with mid-fi gear. I also agree with that. If I just run the HD800 directly from my DX90, it sounds good. Perhaps it would sound a little better if I put it on a good desktop amp, but that is not worth the loss of mobility to me (to be able to walk around the house freely).
> 
> I wouldn't say the HD800 is _definitely_ better than a HE-560, though. The differences are in the details. A HD800 is brighter sounding than the slight V-shape of a HE-560, the HD800 was a quicker attack and decay than the more relaxed sounding HE-560, but overall the differences are pretty minor. If you like faster and a bit more neutrality, the HD800 is probably more your thing. If you like more bass and a somewhat more relaxed sound, the HE-560 is probably more your thing.
> 
> ...


 
 I would say that where the HD800 dominates the HE560 (To my head of course) is in the comfort department.


----------



## rawrster

henkie196 said:


> I wouldn't say the HD800 is _definitely_ better than a HE-560, though. The differences are in the details. A HD800 is brighter sounding than the slight V-shape of a HE-560, the HD800 was a quicker attack and decay than the more relaxed sounding HE-560, but overall the differences are pretty minor. If you like faster and a bit more neutrality, the HD800 is probably more your thing. If you like more bass and a somewhat more relaxed sound, the HE-560 is probably more your thing.


 
  
 What you are referring to is sound signature. My post is more about the level of headphone. For example, signature aside I'm sure the majority (except those in delusion) are willing to say that the HD800 is the better headphone than a HD650. Someone may prefer the HD650 over it since they prefer the voicing of the HD650.
  
 While the HE-560 is good (and a ridiculously good value), the HD800 is easily the better headphone. When I had both of them the HE-560 hit a ceiling with my setup however I have not reached the potential of the HD800 with my setup.


----------



## henkie196

daphen said:


> I would say that where the HD800 dominates the HE560 (To my head of course) is in the comfort department.


 
 It's a bit of a wash for me. The suspension band of the HE-560 is more comfortable to me than the headband of the HD800, which I always seem to have some difficulty to fit right. The earpads of the HD800 are more spacious and not as warm as the HE-560, though, so that is more comfortable on the HD800 for me.
  


rawrster said:


> What you are referring to is sound signature. My post is more about the level of headphone. For example, signature aside I'm sure the majority (except those in delusion) are willing to say that the HD800 is the better headphone than a HD650. Someone may prefer the HD650 over it since they prefer the voicing of the HD650.
> 
> While the HE-560 is good (and a ridiculously good value), the HD800 is easily the better headphone. When I had both of them the HE-560 hit a ceiling with my setup however I have not reached the potential of the HD800 with my setup.


 
 Yes, I'm referring to the sound signature (and the attack and the decay). But to my ears, that is also the main difference between the two headphones. In terms of detail I wouldn't say that either resolves more than the other, therefore I wouldn't necessarily say one is better than the other. Perhaps if I sit down and really, really listen very hard, I could hear some differences in detail resolving, but I never listen like that in normal life, so I don't really see the point. But to my ears, the differences in sound signature and presentation would probably still be much more noticeable.
  
 But then, in Europe the price difference between the two headphones is not so big as in North-America, so I wouldn't really group them in different performance/price groups because of that.


----------



## Sorrodje

daphen said:


> Are you saying that an HD600 with an Oppo HA-2 sounds better than an HD800 with an Oppo HA-2?
> I already tested the HD650 and HD700 and to my ears, the HD700 sounds a lot better with my Fiio E17, I sold my HD650 after listening to the HD700.
> 
> 
> I would say that where the HD800 dominates the HE560 (To my head of course) is in the comfort department.


 
  
 Never heard anything from an Oppo HA2 . Sorry.


----------



## icebear

sorrodje said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> But on the other side ,* you don't know what the HD800 is REALLY capable of until you hear it from a dedicated well choosen TOTL rig. * Some headphones sounds basically the same from everything. the HD800 does not. period.
> 
> ...


 
*THIS +1* !!!
 Exact same revelation when I plugged it into my GSX-Mk2.


----------



## jlbrach

I have both a Chord Hugo and an Oppo Ha-1 that i listen to with my HD800...both are wonderful......I do think that you get to about 98% of the potential of the HD800 or any other top of the line headphone and then that last 2% which some people hear and some do not and is in many ways completely subjective can cost you an additional 5K.......I know people who will swear that the LCD-3F for instance is far better than the HD800 and vice versa( i have both).....I have listened to super expensive Dac/amp combos vs my HA-1 and come to believe that sometimes I hear what i would refer to as dramatic differences and other times not at all.....I do believe this phenomenon holds true with all kinds of other high end equipment...I am also a photography buff and have spent all sorts of time comparing lenses and the differences between a 2k lens and a 1k lens......often times you have to blow the picture up to measure the minute differences.....none of this suggests i discount peoples desires to own the absolute best,I am simply trying as a fellow audiophile to be somewhat realistic.Going from listening to your HD800 through your iphone to listening to it through an Oppo Ha-1 is truly dramatic but going from the Ha-1 to a more expensive dac/amp setup is far more nuanced!


----------



## daphen

sorrodje said:


> Never heard anything from an Oppo HA2 . Sorry.


 
 I just used the Oppo HA2 as an example. I meant, do you think that the HD600 can ever compare to an HD800?


----------



## JaZZ

Speaking of the Chord Hugo: While it isn't a cheap component itself, it will save you the expense of an amp. I know that some don't agree – because they like to attach an amp nonetheless and think it sounds «better» that way –, but if you don't care for a euphonized sound (bigger, warmer, fuller, rounder, smoother, more forgiving...) and prefer to hear the original signal from the DAC instead, there's nothing better than the direct connection to the Hugo (there are a few other DACs around with the same concept). In fact it doesn't have a headphone amp built in, the DAC's line out drives the headphones directly, and this with an output impedance of 0,075 ohms. So there's effectively no headphone amp to be bypassed, nothing to be gained from an additional amplification stage (except for additional harmonic distortion), but a lot to lose (accuracy). Many Head-Fiers seem to massively underestimate the coloration introduced by amplifiers (without exception – at least that's my experience from corresponding experiments). So if you can renounce it, do it by all means! A wire without gain is more true to the original signal than even the most expensive amp.
  
 Here's the explanation to the topic, from the developer himself.


----------



## raybone0566

This thread has turned into more of a debate thread than an impression thread. I will say that I listened to Dave Matthews for the first time with my new hd800's and it gave me goosebumps.


----------



## AlanU

henkie196 said:


> I believe he is also saying that the HD800 can sound good with mid-fi gear. I also agree with that. If I just run the HD800 directly from my DX90, it sounds good. Perhaps it would sound a little better if I put it on a good desktop amp, but that is not worth the loss of mobility to me (to be able to walk around the house freely).
> 
> I wouldn't say the HD800 is _definitely_ better than a HE-560, though. The differences are in the details. A HD800 is brighter sounding than the slight V-shape of a HE-560, the HD800 was a quicker attack and decay than the more relaxed sounding HE-560, but overall the differences are pretty minor. If you like faster and a bit more neutrality, the HD800 is probably more your thing. If you like more bass and a somewhat more relaxed sound, the HE-560 is probably more your thing.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think in general we are all just seeking audio nirvana with the budget contraints of our wallets 
  
 Good to hear the HE-560 is a great performer. I'd be interested in those headphones to pair with my HD800, HD650. I'm all for chillin' seeking a more laid back headphone for majority of my headphone listening.
  
 I think the end of the chain (heaphones to our ears) has the final say in the translation of music. However I think as long as the heaphone amp does an adequate job in it's task I feel the dac has almost equal participation in overall sound. Also the colourized sound tubes will give be it a signal buffer, amp or dac. 
  
 Amazing how personal preference wins over our hearts and unfortunately many (including myself) fall into upgraditis assuming $$$ has the upper hand in creating max pleasure. This is not always the case. Since this is an evil hobby we can enjoy the ride in the attempts to achieving audio nirvana.
  
 The dirt cheap "modification" I performed on my HD800's pleased me enough with my setup. I no longer feel the need to purchase more headphone gear at the moment. 
  
 Preference wise I think I'm definitely easier to please in the headphone world. For the long term I think I'm good for a while in the comfort and SQ department using the HD800's. I wish I could say this for my other hobbies


----------



## henkie196

alanu said:


> I think in general we are all just seeking audio nirvana with the budget contraints of our wallets
> 
> Good to hear the HE-560 is a great performer. I'd be interested in those headphones to pair with my HD800, HD650. I'm all for chillin' seeking a more laid back headphone for majority of my headphone listening.
> 
> ...


 
 I wouldn't dare comment on how the HE-560 compares to the HD650, because I only briefly heard the HD650s once.
  
 I think I could be happy with a HD600 as well. They're pretty good in the detail, mostly only lacking in bass extension. Also I'm not as sensitive to GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) as many people here seem to be. I already have audio nirvana with my speakers, though


----------



## AlanU

henkie196 said:


> I wouldn't dare comment on how the HE-560 compares to the HD650, because I only briefly heard the HD650s once.
> 
> I think I could be happy with a HD600 as well. They're pretty good in the detail, mostly only lacking in bass extension. Also I'm not as sensitive to GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) as many people here seem to be. I already have audio nirvana with my speakers, though


 
  
 I'll be honest and say I grab my HD800 alot more than my HD650's.  
  
 "GAS" in the audio world seems to be quite normal. The beauty of headphones is the elimination of room acoustics. Different "flavours" of sound is obtainable reaching out for different headphones 
  
 When I removed my 2 channel 2 piece rectifier/ tube DAC and introduced to my Burson virtuoso it completely transformed my headphone rig to an entirely different world of musical enjoyment. The sound signature became an incredible musical trip!! The enjoyment factor was more drastic as if I changed my headphones. Jazzy female vocals to any string instrument to horns I found a DAC equal in changing the SQ.
  
 Oddly I have yet heard a headphone setup to "move me"  compared to a 2 channel setup. The musical emotional engagement seems by far different/better in a 2 channel system. 
  
 One thing i appreciate with the hd800 is the spacial impression I get with the comfortable headphones. No "vice/clamp" feel or claustrophobic congested feeling I got testing some headphones. Again this is all personal opinions which only matter to me 
  
 I did find that cheap modification is did to my HD800 an  "enjoyment"   The sound signature change was enough for me to kick back and transfer monetary hobby funds to other things in life 
 The beauty of the cheap mod is I can covert back to original state in a matter of couple minutes


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Do the $10,000 DACs come with built-in -60dB digital loops of "you just bought the best"?


----------



## koiloco

birdmanofct said:


> Do the $10,000 DACs come with built-in -60dB digital loops of "you just bought the best"?


 
 I believe so. It also comes with a sticker that says "anything less is just cr..p" and a thick manual that helps you justify your purchase with your significant other.


----------



## joshk4

Oppo Ha 2 against the hdvd 800, there is a small difference but nothing major where it makes the hd 800 sound bad. Soundstage, clarity, fast hitting base is all still there. 

I'm just concerned when people say it's so bad that it's an injustice to listen to them other than an expensive dac/amp. I think that is abit extreme.


----------



## Oregonian

Who besides MattTCG and I are running these out of vintage speaker amps?


----------



## shultzee

oregonian said:


> Who besides MattTCG and I are running these out of vintage speaker amps?


 

 Does it count that I listen to them and I am vintage or a antique or something


----------



## punit

oregonian said:


> Who besides MattTCG and I are running these out of vintage speaker amps?


 
 I use them from the HP out of my Marantz PM500 sometimes (I have 4 other amps for HD 800)


----------



## henkie196

When you say running out of a speaker amp, does that mean to use the headphone out, or to have rewired the HD800 so that you can plug the wires into the speaker outputs of the speaker amp?


----------



## vnmslsrbms

They're wiring it to go out from the speaker wire terminals.  It works with tube amps that are very low wattage, but I would have to guess that it's hard to match?  Since those amps are designed for speakers and the impedance is like 2-16 ohms.  I've been tempted a few times to get a vintage amp and hook them up.  But I think I would only need that for HE-6's or some other really inefficient HPs.


----------



## whirlwind

punit said:


> oregonian said:
> 
> 
> > Who besides MattTCG and I are running these out of vintage speaker amps?
> ...


 
 punit, where does the OTL stand between the 4 amps you own....the one made by Glenn ?.....mine is about finished.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> punit, where does the OTL stand between the 4 amps you own....the one made by Glenn ?.....mine is about finished.




I'm pretty sure it's high up on the list.


----------



## Oregonian

henkie196 said:


> When you say running out of a speaker amp, does that mean to use the headphone out, or to have rewired the HD800 so that you can plug the wires into the speaker outputs of the speaker amp?


 

 Headphone out.  I run the HE-400 (and previously the HE-6) direct out of the speaker terminals, but not the HD800. 
  
 Running it out of a vintage Pioneer Spec 2 amp / Spec 1 preamp, usually from a Pioneer CD player, and the sound is incredible, with bass that completely changed my opinion of this headphone.  Where I once thought this would be lacking, it has plenty of thump.


----------



## shultzee

oregonian said:


> Who besides MattTCG and I are running these out of vintage speaker amps?


 
  
  
 Actually using a 80's Carver C6 Pre amp to drive them right now and it does a very nice job.  Source is a Concero HD.


----------



## jlbrach

Centrance Hi-Fi m8 does a nice job with the HD800...the Chord Hugo does a great job as does the Oppo Ha-1..........


----------



## nephilim32

sorrodje said:


> Absolutely. Trying to tame the HD800 with the gear is a fundamental Mistake. It took time for me to realize it.  EQ or mod it if you feel the need to fix something and improve the quality of what you feed the HD800 with . That's the way to go. Nothing new under the sun though.
> 
> 
> I made some templates with cut dust covers  . Will take the time to explain what I did.




I've been trying to tell a lot of people this. People are so hell bent on doing the the anaxilius mod to take away that 'so called treble bite' but their consequences to that. You are using an artificial dampener, therefore stifling a headphone that has pretty much the greatest 'stereo imaging' and instrument localization to a soundstage for the best possible recreation of a live soundstage. 
I agree with this posting. I match 'revealing/analytical gear' with revealing analytical gear with this headphone. 

You gotta bring this CAN to life!! Don't taint it. It's a crime. You wreck what the HD 800's stand for.


----------



## AlanU

nephilim32 said:


> I've been trying to tell a lot of people this. People are so hell bent on doing the the anaxilius mod to take away that 'so called treble bite' but their consequences to that. You are using an artificial dampener, therefore stifling a headphone that has pretty much the greatest 'stereo imaging' and instrument localization to a soundstage for the best possible recreation of a live soundstage.
> I agree with this posting. I match 'revealing/analytical gear' with revealing analytical gear with this headphone.
> 
> You gotta bring this CAN to life!! Don't taint it. It's a crime. You wreck what the HD 800's stand for.


 
 I've performed my own modified version of the anaxilius mod. I'll have to say it's been a great improvement over stock form HD800. Of course this is all about personal subjective opinions.
  
 I'm using a grant fidelity tube buffer/processor w/ black treasure tubes or vintage sylvania's. To add some tube treatment to the source. I'm basically feeding the internal burson dac of my Burson Virtuoso and feeding it back to the input RCA's amp section.
  
 I'm quite sensitive to treble but I've never complained much about the stock form hd800.  The modifications I did to my new headphones seemed to tame and make the headphones more organic. Possibly I'm not describing it that well but it did made the music a tad laid back. When I use my spacetech tube dac and super rectifier (aprox 3500 cdn) the tube dac via Audio Sensibility testament rca's is a dream to listen too. Unfortunately I must put my tube dac/rectifier (2 unit system)  back on my 2 channel hifi setup. 
  
 IMO I've always found the HD800 to present a slightly exaggerated "open" sound stage that seems to misrepresent the intended sound of the original high res source. After listening to many tracks on different 2 channel stereo systems the sound I get from my HD800 (even when I auditioned at headphone stores) had a very open soundstage in comparison to a 2 channel stereo system. The HD800 has a vast sound with a very large soundstage.
  
 After modifying the HD800 I felt it created a more realistic soundstage which is still very open but not as exaggerated. Nonetheless still extremely a great pleasure to listen too. 
  
 After modding the HD800 i've lost interest in buying different model HP.
  
 I'll have to say the Concero HD with burson virtuoso amp section was the most hyper detailed sound signature with the HD800. Music was so detailed that it lost emotional engagement. Like any sound system it's all about synergy of the combination of components.


----------



## Thenewguy007

oregonian said:


> Headphone out.  I run the HE-400 (and previously the HE-6) direct out of the speaker terminals, but not the HD800.
> 
> Running it out of a vintage Pioneer Spec 2 amp / Spec 1 preamp, usually from a Pioneer CD player, and the sound is incredible, with bass that completely changed my opinion of this headphone.  Where I once thought this would be lacking, it has plenty of thump.


 
  
 Can stereo amps without headphone outs still be used?

 Like what adapter would you need to plug the 1/4 jack so it could fit to on of the output on the back of most of those stereo amps?


----------



## rawrster

You would need to reterminate the stock cable or get a new cable. You can get one in a 4 pin XLR and then an adapter to banana, bare wire or spades depending on the amp.

You may also need a preamp to control the volume if there's no volume knob and you have no other way of controlling it.


----------



## Oregonian

thenewguy007 said:


> Can stereo amps without headphone outs still be used?
> 
> Like what adapter would you need to plug the 1/4 jack so it could fit to on of the output on the back of most of those stereo amps?


 

 As rawrster mentioned, cable guys can make you a speaker tap to 1/4" female adapter that will allow you to hook up to the amp.  Headphone Lounge (Ted) is a great source, and fast with very reasonable pricing.


----------



## Mahdi8

I think you would need to use balanced connection. Trs plug need common ground and speaker out has + and - with no ground.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

oregonian said:


> As rawrster mentioned, *cable guy*s can make you a speaker tap to 1/4" female adapter that will allow you to hook up to the amp.  Headphone Lounge (Ted) is a great source, and fast with very reasonable pricing.


 

*    Send ME your cable, dude!*


----------



## henkie196

oregonian said:


> Headphone out.  I run the HE-400 (and previously the HE-6) direct out of the speaker terminals, but not the HD800.
> 
> Running it out of a vintage Pioneer Spec 2 amp / Spec 1 preamp, usually from a Pioneer CD player, and the sound is incredible, with bass that completely changed my opinion of this headphone.  Where I once thought this would be lacking, it has plenty of thump.


 
 Not sure what the difference would be between your vintage amp and my stereo amplifier, but I do use the headphone out of my NAD amp quite regularly. Neither for my HD800 or my HE-560 it seems to make much difference when compared to running them straight from my DX90, though.
  
 /edit
 On another note, does anyone here have a hardcase for transporting the HD800? I'd be interested in what different people here use for transport.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > punit, where does the OTL stand between the 4 amps you own....the one made by Glenn ?.....mine is about finished.
> ...


 
 Thanks.......he has a great selection of amps, to say the least.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Thanks.......he has a great selection of amps, to say the least.




Oh I've heard many of @Punit 's amps. Glenn's OTL was one of my favourites hence I've ordered one.  
Let's wait for Punit to chime in. He rolled many tubes on his OTL so he can share his favourite tubes when paired with the HD800.


----------



## punit

whirlwind said:


> punit, where does the OTL stand between the 4 amps you own....the one made by Glenn ?.....mine is about finished.


 
 The OTL is my fav (by a slight margin) with HD 800. All of them are equally good depending on your preference.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks.......he has a great selection of amps, to say the least.
> ...


 
 Oh, i had no idea that you had heard them.....wonderful.
  
 I have talked to punit , thru pm's, when I was ordering my amp....he gave me some nice tube combos that he had heard and liked, and there were many  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I was just wondering how the amp stacked up with the HD800 compared to his other amps.
  
 I am very excited to get mine.......do you have yours yet ?


----------



## whirlwind

punit said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > punit, where does the OTL stand between the 4 amps you own....the one made by Glenn ?.....mine is about finished.
> ...


 
 Thanks punit......this get me even more excited   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thanks again........I have bought many tubes off the list that you pm'ed me, some time ago.
  
 Man....I can't wait to hear this combo....thanks again!


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> Oh, i had no idea that you had heard them.....wonderful.
> 
> I have talked to punit , thru pm's, when I was ordering my amp....he gave me some nice tube combos that he had heard and liked, and there were many
> 
> ...



I am on Glenn's long queue I believe. My OTL will be slightly different than Punit's as I was told. It will be fun to compare it with Punit's version.


----------



## sandy1010

Forgive me if this has been asked , searched but couldn't find.
  
 Is there someone who will professionally do the Anax mod? I'm a clutz with my hands and prefer to just pay someone else.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Thenewguy007

What
 Re-reading the top 50 flagship list & saw this
  


> The other is that the earpads are not user-removable/replaceable. For clarification purposes, I want to express here that some users have attempted removing the earpads from their HD800 (some successfully, some with incurred damage). It is my suspicion that the HD800 was not designed with the intention of having the earpads removed by the user.


 
  

 So I can't removed the earpad for the HD800 without damaging it?


 If I do the Anax mod, it will have to be with the earpads on?
  
 How are people taking off the dust covers & putting them back on?


----------



## bearFNF

thenewguy007 said:


> What
> Re-reading the top 50 flagship list & saw this
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That is not entirely correct, it may be difficult, but it can and has been done.
  
 The Last Anax mod I saw does not require removal of the pads.
  
 The removal of the dust covers does not require the removal of the pads.


----------



## Thenewguy007

bearfnf said:


> The removal of the dust covers does not require the removal of the pads.


 
  
 How would I put them back then?
 Are they glued on?
  
 Won't want to mess with $1,000 headphones & find out I can't put something back.


----------



## rawrster

The dust covers are just there. You can take them off and put it back with no issue. It's like a blanket on top of a bed. There's no glue or anything.


----------



## icebear

thenewguy007 said:


> What
> Re-reading the top 50 flagship list & saw this
> 
> quote
> ...


 
 That quote is complete BS.
 You can buy replacement pads for the HD800 directly from Sennheiser. It's a little difficult due to the foil holding the snap mechanism in place being so stiff when new. But there is no glue or anything and when you put the old pads back in place, it's relatively easy because the foil has been stretched into position.


----------



## bearFNF

thenewguy007 said:


> How would I put them back then?
> Are they glued on?
> 
> Won't want to mess with $1,000 headphones & find out I can't put something back.


 

 The dust covers inside the ear cups just tuck in under the ear pads, no glue. Just make sure to align them the way they were when you take the out. Pretty easy to do.
  
 The pads are a little tricky. If you don't need to, don't take them off. If you need to replace them when they are worn there are some videos on YouTube that show how to do it.


----------



## johnjen

thenewguy007 said:


> What
> Re-reading the top 50 flagship list & saw this
> 
> So I can't removed the earpad for the HD800 without damaging it?
> ...




I have removed and put the earpads back on numerous times, and even replaced them with new replacement parts.
I have also done this with the headband.

It's easier with the earpads removed to install the anax (and other) mod(s), but not mandatory, I have done it both ways.

The dust covers are EXTREMELY easy to remove and reinstall.

JJ
ps don't believe everything you read.


----------



## HiAudio

Hi guys, I need some urgent answer.
  
 I got one used HDVD800 for the HD800.
  
 Somehow the Optical input does not work and has no sound. I tried two optical cable and neither works. if I connect the optical cable to my NuForce HDP, both cables work.
  
 Using USB connect HDVD800 to computer and computer cannot see the HDVD800. USB input has no sound. But computer can see the NuForce if the USB is connected to it and it works.
  
 On the HDVD800, the Coaxial input works.
  
 Simply put, of the digital source, USB, Optical and Coaxial all work on my NuForce and only Coaxial works on the HDVD800.
  
 Analog works on both NuForce and HDVD 800.
  
 Also, when I plug in either digital cable in the connector on the HDVD800 moves. I think they should be stable at such gentle push.
  
 Is this HDVD 800 a defect? I think so. I want to return it.
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## devilboy

hiaudio said:


> Hi guys, I need some urgent answer.
> 
> I got one used HDVD800 for the HD800.
> 
> ...


1) Is there a toggle switch anywhere on the dvd800? (Front or back).
2) Whhat kind of computer do you have? Do you know if you must download a driver in order for your computer to see the 800? Also, if you have a Mac like me, go into "settings" then "audio". Make sure hdvd 800 pops up and is highlighted. 
If you run something like PureMusic, go into "preferences" and make sure it sees the hdvd 800, not the Nuforce.


----------



## WilCox

hiaudio said:


> Also, when I plug in either digital cable in the connector on the HDVD800 moves. I think they should be stable at such gentle push.
> 
> Is this HDVD 800 a defect? I think so. I want to return it.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
  
 I purchased an HDVD 800 and noticed the same problem.  When plugging in an S/PDIF connection, either coaxial or optical, the connector would retreat into the case.  This combo optical/coax connector is only anchored by the PCB solder connections -- very bad practice as it allows too much stress on the solder joints which could lead to failure.  Most connectors of this type are anchored to the back panel to prevent such stress.  I find it odd that on such a high-end product, this detail was overlooked.  I ended up returning the HDVD 800 and purchasing an HDVA 600.


----------



## HiAudio

devilboy said:


> 1) Is there a toggle switch anywhere on the dvd800? (Front or back).
> 2) Whhat kind of computer do you have? Do you know if you must download a driver in order for your computer to see the 800? Also, if you have a Mac like me, go into "settings" then "audio". Make sure hdvd 800 pops up and is highlighted.
> If you run something like PureMusic, go into "preferences" and make sure it sees the hdvd 800, not the Nuforce.


 
  
 There is a front switch that change the input among total 6 inputs.
  
 I could not get it that the Optical is not working because the signal is out of the cable (two cables, I changed it to eliminate possibility of bad cables) and other DAC/amp works from it.
  
 I knew the HDVD 800 need some firmware update but I do not want to do it to make any  modification to the unit because I had intention to return it. I actually tried windows 7 and window 8 and neither is working. The windows simply does not see it. I will try on a Mac again.
  
 Windows sees the NuForce as soon as it's connected with USB cable.


----------



## Khragon

You need to install the driver, have you done that? I'm not familiar with nuforce but if it only support 44/96 it does not need any driver. I'm sure hdvd800 needs driver to be installed.


----------



## HiAudio

khragon said:


> You need to install the driver, have you done that? I'm not familiar with nuforce but if it only support 44/96 it does not need any driver. I'm sure hdvd800 needs driver to be installed.


 
  
 Not yet. On Sennheiser site they have firmware update for the unit. I don't want to touch that yet because I intend to return it. But driver for windows is different from firmware for the unit. I don't see they have any download of driver for the windows.
  
 However, I think the driver thing only affect USB connection but not the Optical connection. The optical does not work and there is no reason for that.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## shultzee

wilcox said:


> hiaudio said:
> 
> 
> > Also, when I plug in either digital cable in the connector on the HDVD800 moves. I think they should be stable at such gentle push.
> ...



Thats pretty lame quality control on a supposed high end amp.


----------



## henkie196

Quality control has nothing to do with it (unless it was like this in new condition), it's just poor design.


----------



## HiAudio

henkie196 said:


> Quality control has nothing to do with it (unless it was like this in new condition), it's just poor design.


 
 Yes, those connectors should be stably fixed on the metal case and passes no force to inside chip.


----------



## henkie196

Indeed, a solder onto a PCB is definitely not the most secure way to pass the force of connecting a plug to the housing. It seems obvious, but I suppose even a big R&D department like Sennheiser's isn't above making mistakes. It happens more often, though, up till recently quite a few of the Canon and Nikon camera's had the same construction for their plugs (i.e. a connector passing the force onto the PCB directly instead of onto the housing).


----------



## mikoss

johnjen said:


> ps don't believe everything you read.


 
 Yes, exactly. 
  
 For this weeks-long ongoing stream of endless questions, the best advice is to try listening to some gear and understanding what you like. No offense to David M, but he is just one person with an opinion out of many. That thread summarizes some popular opinion, but it isn't the best source of advice I've ever read, personally.


----------



## Moonhead

For love for HD800 and he doesn't even choose 007 or 009.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-brian-na-blur#PdAyYvJbFiHY1eJk.97


----------



## Sorrodje

Seems the Good ol' HD800 is still competitive indeed. The most interesting point for me is that the Senn is always in the 4 favorites headphones of everybody even when the tastes of the visitor ( Bob Katz for example) does obviously not tend towards HD800's kind of sound sig.  
  
 That said , Tyll's HD800 is modded


----------



## elvergun

sorrodje said:


> *Seems the Good ol' HD800 is still competitive indeed. *The most interesting point for me is that the Senn is always in the 4 favorites headphones


 
  
 +1
  
 I didn't know how the HD800 would fare against all the newly released high-end headphones (HE1000, Ether).  Apparently, the HD800 is doing quite well in the face of stiff competition (specially considering that those new releases have the FOTM factor going in their favor).


----------



## Shembot

elvergun said:


> +1
> 
> I didn't know how the HD800 would fare against all the newly released high-end headphones (HE1000, Ether).  Apparently, the HD800 is doing quite well in the face of stiff competition (specially considering that those new releases have the FOTM factor going in their favor).


 

 Having just spent a bunch of time with the HD800 and Ether, I preferred the HD800. The Ether is great, but it makes too many compromises in order to have the best of all worlds (to my ear). The HD800 has a strong personality, but it's just so good at what it does.


----------



## johnjen

I currently have a set of stock HE1Ks that I can compare to my modded 800's.

It's to early to make a final determination, but the 1K's are really smooth in the mids, as one would expect from planar magnetics, since that IS their forté.

More later…

JJ


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Although many people (articles, YouTube) mention the comfort of the HD800, hardly anyone mentions comfort for glass wearers. Since I can't wear contacts, and don't want to chance laser surgery, it's an important factor to me. I find the HD800 comfortable with glasses, even over long periods (just not laying down). I'm found many mid-fi headphones to be uncomfortable with glasses. Unfortunately, I've not tried many high-end headphones.


----------



## MacedonianHero

birdmanofct said:


> Although many people (articles, YouTube) mention the comfort of the HD800, hardly anyone mentions comfort for glass wearers. Since I can't wear contacts, and don't want to chance laser surgery, it's an important factor to me. I find the HD800 comfortable with glasses, even over long periods (just not laying down). I'm found many mid-fi headphones to be uncomfortable with glasses. Unfortunately, I've not tried many high-end headphones.


 
  
 I wear glasses all the time and the HD800s are still the most comfortable headphones with my glasses (or without for that matter).


----------



## drez

The 3000 dollar question: is it smooth, or smoothed


----------



## MickeyVee

I use the Audeze / Pelican hard case.  Works perfectly.
 Quote:


henkie196 said:


> /edit
> On another note, does anyone here have a hardcase for transporting the HD800? I'd be interested in what different people here use for transport.


----------



## MickeyVee

HD800 vs HE1000 Comparison by Jerg from the Toronto Spring Meet (using my McIntosh MXA70) post #8


----------



## ubs28

If the HE-1000 wins in terms of fun sound for some people, a mastering EQ on the HD800 does the same thing.


----------



## henkie196

mickeyvee said:


> I use the Audeze / Pelican hard case.  Works perfectly.


 
 Thanks, I think I'll look for a Pelican case of more or less the same size (I don't think I can find the Audeze / Pelican case here without going out to buy an Audeze).


----------



## Sorrodje

I was in the Beta and wrote a full  review of the HE1000. :http://www.head-fi.org/t/767883/official-hifiman-he1000-impressions-thread/540#post_11682842
  
 Seems We were spot on a few month ago. the HEK sounds always beautiful but soft/smooth . softness/smoothness makes the HEK a relaxing headphone to listen to and it seems that's what is appreciated by HE1000 lovers. and I can understand that. For me, enjoyement and fun come from the illusion that what I hear is real and not embellished or smoothened,  That's why I'm a HD800 nut and a SR009 fan. 
  
 Nevertheless , if I can understand why people love the HE1000 I dont get how people can really praise that much its soundstage though. It's big , wide , airy but not that precise and layered imo. not to mention imaging precision.  I own a  Lambda and still IMO  HEK soundstage is on par with my old lambda. Same slightly diffuse/nebulous nature IME. that's not bad at all but as stellar as I could expect from a 3K headphone. YMMV. 
  
 Moreover, it seems there're some serious inconstitencies between Unit.


----------



## thomascrown

henkie196 said:


> Thanks, I think I'll look for a Pelican case of more or less the same size (I don't think I can find the Audeze / Pelican case here without going out to buy an Audeze).


 
 https://www.audeze.com/products/accessories/ruggedized-travel-case
  
 but this will do fine as well for the hd800 (it's the one I'm using):
  
 http://www.pelican.com/cases_detail.php?Case=1300
  
 But I prefer the Audeze one, it's easier to open


----------



## jsgraha

For me, compare to HD800, HE1000 seem have that soft in its attack. But only compare to HD800, not to LCD (either X or 3). Soundstage, particularly its depth, actually better than my modded HD800. I felt layering (in term of depth of each instrument location) also better on HE1000. Bass goes deeper than to HD800, though HD800 gave a slightly better impact. But since I have schiit yggy now, I never felt that HE1000 is lacking impact and attack on my setup. 
  
 I imagine they are a good complementary phone to HD800 (still my primary). For me, they are sort of uber LCD-3.
 Using stratus on both, for me, I can listen to any genre of music. Just slightly different presentation, I guess.
  
 I can't comment on variation between units, but when I compare to demo unit at local shop (after 3 weeks), it seem similar (particularly using ragnarog).


----------



## Sorrodje

@jsgraha :  Did numerous comparison against HD800/SR009/Abyss and for us (me and a friend)  Imaging issues (Nebulous/Diffuse lack of pin point imaging) were there.  It could be my pair though but I think some other owners noticed the same issue..


----------



## jsgraha

Hmmm, I didn't notice this imaging issue though, even when I have a friend coming with abyss. If other he1k owner heard this problem with imaging, then I'm afraid that it confirmed production variation. Though, I think I experienced this issue during burn-in (about less than 150 hrs). 

I'm not a believer of burn-in. My previous lcd and current hd800 seem sound the same. But my he1k seem change it signature up to 200hrs for some reason


----------



## preproman

jsgraha said:


> Hmmm, I didn't notice this imaging issue though, even when I have a friend coming with abyss. If other he1k owner heard this problem with imaging, then I'm afraid that it confirmed production variation. Though, I think I experienced this issue during burn-in (about less than 150 hrs).
> 
> I'm not a believer of burn-in. My previous lcd and current hd800 seem sound the same. But my he1k seem change it signature up to 200hrs for some reason


 
  
  
 That amp / headphone combo looks familiar. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   How does / did it sound?


----------



## jsgraha

It did sound great with the Abyss  . But I think, with hd800 and hifiman, I think for my preference in sound signature, I picked stratus. To my ears, using int30a, both sens and hifiman seem losing their nimbleness. But not with abyss though, it sound great with that phone


----------



## Sorrodje

jsgraha said:


> Hmmm, I didn't notice this imaging issue though, even when I have a friend coming with abyss. If other he1k owner heard this problem with imaging, then I'm afraid that it confirmed production variation. Though, I think I experienced this issue during burn-in (about less than 150 hrs).


 
  
 I'm not alone to have experienced that issue + the fake Height. ..the friend whith whom I did the Abyss/SR009/HEK comparison noticed the fake heaight immediately.   It's subtle though not something than kills the HEK except for people like me who are obsessive about that point. Once noticed, it haunts the listener. 
  
 I can"t say I heard any improvement during "burn in" ... YMMV as usual    and all testimonies I read seem to confirm variations between unit are really significant.


----------



## preproman

OH, IMO the Pass amp wakes the HE1Ks up more than any other amp I've heard.  I agree,  It's a really good match with the Abyss.  Also for me, there is not enough difference at this level of amplification to have a different amp for the HD800s.  The HD800s sound like HD800s on just about any other amp I've had.
  
 The most interesting thing for me was.  The HD800s sound the most thin on a tube amp I had (EC 445)  That was very surprising.  The SS amps gave it more body - including the Pass amp.
  
 I got yet another GS-X mk2 in just for the HD800s.  Put it up against the Pass amp and - wouldn't you know it - The Pass amp came out on top again.  For me anyway.  Sold the GS-X mk2 again.


----------



## longbowbbs

preproman said:


> OH, IMO the Pass amp wakes the HE1Ks up more than any other amp I've heard.  I agree,  It's a really good match with the Abyss.  Also for me, there is not enough difference at this level of amplification to have a different amp for the HD800s.  The HD800s sound like HD800s on just about any other amp I've had.
> 
> The most interesting thing for me was.  The HD800s sound the most thin on a tube amp I had (EC 445)  That was very surprising.  The SS amps gave it more body - including the Pass amp.
> 
> I got yet another GS-X mk2 in just for the HD800s.  Put it up against the Pass amp and - wouldn't you know it - The Pass amp came out on top again.  For me anyway.  Sold the GS-X mk2 again.


 
 Which Pass amp? The new Headphone amp or one of the integrateds?


----------



## sandy1010

henkie196 said:


> Thanks, I think I'll look for a Pelican case of more or less the same size (I don't think I can find the Audeze / Pelican case here without going out to buy an Audeze).




You want the pelican 1300 series with the pick & pluck foam.

Same size as the Audeze cases.


----------



## Sorrodje

Bought a Used Pelican 1300 as well. That's indeed perfectly fine


----------



## ruthieandjohn

longbowbbs said:


> Which Pass amp? The new Headphone amp or one of the integrateds?







jsgraha said:


> It did sound great with the Abyss  . But I think, with hd800 and hifiman, I think for my preference in sound signature, I picked stratus. To my ears,* using int30a*, both sens and hifiman seem losing their nimbleness. But not with abyss though, it sound great with that phone


*int30a*


----------



## preproman

longbowbbs said:


> Which Pass amp? The new Headphone amp or one of the integrateds?


 
 Talking about the integrated.  I would like to hear the new headphone amp thou.  I haven't seen any impressions on it yet.


----------



## Taowolf51

birdmanofct said:


> Although many people (articles, YouTube) mention the comfort of the HD800, hardly anyone mentions comfort for glass wearers. Since I can't wear contacts, and don't want to chance laser surgery, it's an important factor to me. I find the HD800 comfortable with glasses, even over long periods (just not laying down). I'm found many mid-fi headphones to be uncomfortable with glasses. Unfortunately, I've not tried many high-end headphones.


 
  
 Yeah, the HD800's are great with glasses, no real comfort problems and no necessary seal that gets broken when wearing glasses.


----------



## longbowbbs

Which integrated? The 30?


----------



## MickeyVee

You can order the case separately from Audeze or maybe find it at an Audeze dealer.  The nice thing is that I did not have to change/cut any of the foam.  The HD800 fit nicely.  My dealer ordered it form me here in Canada.
 Quote:


henkie196 said:


> Thanks, I think I'll look for a Pelican case of more or less the same size (I don't think I can find the Audeze / Pelican case here without going out to buy an Audeze).


----------



## henkie196

mickeyvee said:


> You can order the case separately from Audeze or maybe find it at an Audeze dealer.  The nice thing is that I did not have to change/cut any of the foam.  The HD800 fit nicely.  My dealer ordered it form me here in Canada.


 
  
  


sandy1010 said:


> You want the pelican 1300 series with the pick & pluck foam.
> 
> Same size as the Audeze cases.


 
  


thomascrown said:


> https://www.audeze.com/products/accessories/ruggedized-travel-case
> 
> but this will do fine as well for the hd800 (it's the one I'm using):
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the advice, everyone 
  
 I live in Europe and the Audeze is not as easily available here, but Pelicase is, so the 1300 seems like it would be the ticket.


----------



## johnjen

A general question to 800 users…

Are any of you running the Sonarworks EQ plugin?

If so what settings are you running?

I have been for 11 days now and I've been tweaking the settings and was woindering if ayone else had 'played with the knobs' and such?

JJ


----------



## Sennophile

Sonarworks EQ plugin?  Totally unknown for me!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

johnjen said:


> A general question to 800 users…
> 
> Are any of you running the Sonarworks EQ plugin?
> 
> ...


 
 JJ,
  
 I downloaded the plug in on my Mac, but once I restart I cant find the program (yes I am a computer gimp).


----------



## mikoss

Wondering if it's worthwhile to try the Tari mod...


----------



## FlySweep

mikoss said:


> Wondering if it's worthwhile to try the Tari mod...


 
  
 If you're listening to the HD800 w/ an O2.. I think it's an absolute NO BRAINER.


----------



## johnjen

wildcatsare1 said:


> JJ,
> 
> I downloaded the plug in on my Mac, but once I restart I cant find the program (yes I am a computer gimp).


 The Sonarworks 'program' is really a DSP (Digital Signal Processing) plugin.
It needs to be loaded into the player you are using, assuming it can do this.
I'm using Jriver Media Center, which accommodates plugins.

Once the plugin is installed, you can choose the average HD800 filter from the list.
Then the fun begins as you play with the knobs so to speak. 

JJ


----------



## Wildcatsare1

johnjen said:


> The Sonarworks 'program' is really a DSP (Digital Signal Processing) plugin.
> It needs to be loaded into the player you are using, assuming it can do this.
> I'm using Jriver Media Center, which accommodates plugins.
> 
> ...




Must not play with Amarra +, do also have JRiver on the Mac as well..

And I have always been a fan of playing with the knobs☺️..


----------



## maxedfx

Guys, a quick question regarding amps for HD 800.
 I am contemplating about picking up a used hdvd800, burson conductor(previous version) or I'm thinking of picking up a new oppo HA-1 or preorder the liquid carbon and pick up a good dac along with it.
 The first three are all around 1000 to 1400 USD which is the same cost as a new Ha-1. The C.LC is only 600 USD.

 I'm completely lost with the choices, hence looking for your advice!

 Thanks in advance!!


----------



## kapanak

maxedfx said:


> Guys, a quick question regarding amps for HD 800.
> I am contemplating about picking up a used hdvd800, burson conductor(previous version) or I'm thinking of picking up a new oppo HA-1 or preorder the liquid carbon and pick up a good dac along with it.
> The first three are all around 1000 to 1400 USD which is the same cost as a new Ha-1. The C.LC is only 600 USD.
> 
> ...


 

 Avoid the HDVD800 and get the HDVA600 if you want the Sennheiser amp. The DAC in the 800 isn't worth it.
  
 HA-1 is a terrible choice for the HD800, as it accentuates all the unattractive characteristics of the HD800, such as the piercing treble.
  
 Liquid Carbon is a fine choice, but also consider the EC Black Widow.
  
 Or, if you want an amp exclusively for the HD800, get the Schiit Valhalla 2, as it will sound better than any of the choices you have listed above, but it will be basically locked to your high impedance headphones, such as the HD800.


----------



## Sappy

anyone has experience with the hugo/hdva600 combination? is it a waste of money as the hugo doesnt have balanced output or can anybody recommend this? i really enjoy my Hugo and would like to keep it together with the hd800 which I will get soon.


----------



## azazell86

I have the Burson Conductor with both the SABRE DAC and the PMC DAC. The PMC DAC is an excellent match as it offers a very analog "meaty" sound.

I find the HD800 a surgical headphone so the Conductor really sweetens the sound.


----------



## maxedfx

kapanak said:


> Avoid the HDVD800 and get the HDVA600 if you want the Sennheiser amp. The DAC in the 800 isn't worth it.
> 
> HA-1 is a terrible choice for the HD800, as it accentuates all the unattractive characteristics of the HD800, such as the piercing treble.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the recommendations.
Atm, I have a new HD800, k553 pro, K7xx and an old psb m4u-2.

I may get a planar or iem later on, but haven't decided yet!


----------



## zappazappazappa

I previously used the Hugo into the Sennheiser HDVD800 which is the same amp as the HDVD600 and can highly recommend the combination. If you go down this route get yourself a balanced cable for the HD800's - either Sennheiser's own balanced cable or you could try Moon Audio's Black Dragon with a balanced 4 pin plug.The HD800's really 'sing' best connected to the front panel balanced socket  IMO. The only problem you may encounter using this combination is with the small  output sockets on the Hugo, so make sure the dealer you get your HDVD600 from can supply you with  a cable/s which you like and which fit properly.


----------



## vnmslsrbms

kapanak said:


> HA-1 is a terrible choice for the HD800, as it accentuates all the unattractive characteristics of the HD800, such as the piercing treble.


 
 I agree that the HA-1 isn't the best choice.  I wouldn't say terrible.  Driven balanced gives it a much more even overall impact, but the highs are still higher than simply using the Taurus MKii using the HA-1 as DAC.  I used XLR for the connections.  For those who can't stand the treble, I don't the HD800 is that great a choice anyway.  But if you listen to it enough, you eventually get used to and start loving it.  Brain burn in is very powerful.  Also, real life cymbals really are very piercing.


----------



## joshk4

[quote name="kapanak" url="/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/20340#post_11935430"[quote="kapanak, post: 11935430, member: 413865"]

HA-1 is a terrible choice for the HD800, as it accentuates all the unattractive characteristics of the HD800, such as the piercing treble.
[/quote]


This is exactly my thoughts when I tried hd 800 with ha 1 didn't pair well


----------



## Sappy

zappazappazappa said:


> I previously used the Hugo into the Sennheiser HDVD800 which is the same amp as the HDVD600 and can highly recommend the combination. If you go down this route get yourself a balanced cable for the HD800's - either Sennheiser's own balanced cable or you could try Moon Audio's Black Dragon with a balanced 4 pin plug.The HD800's really 'sing' best connected to the front panel balanced socket  IMO. The only problem you may encounter using this combination is with the small  output sockets on the Hugo, so make sure the dealer you get your HDVD600 from can supply you with  a cable/s which you like and which fit properly.


 
 Sounds good, thanks a lot. But does balanced output of the HDVA600 do anything for this combination? I would need a balanced in which the Hugo doesn't offer. I might be totally wrong here but that is what I understood so far. If the Hugo is perfectly suitable in a balanced setup I would have my combination.


----------



## zappazappazappa

Hi,
     I am now using the Chord Hugo TT as a DAC in both balanced and single ended mode to the Sennheiser HDVD800 headphone amp. For the record I have found myself mostly listening in single ended mode though occasionally I prefer balanced. I guess the point I'm making is balanced connection throughout isn't a night and day improvement IMO so I wouldn't worry that the Hugo can only connect in single ended mode to the HDVD600 - it should still sound excellent. However balanced connection of the HD800's to the headphone amp is a big improvement IMO!


----------



## shultzee

maxedfx said:


> Guys, a quick question regarding amps for HD 800.
> I am contemplating about picking up a used hdvd800, burson conductor(previous version) or I'm thinking of picking up a new oppo HA-1 or preorder the liquid carbon and pick up a good dac along with it.
> The first three are all around 1000 to 1400 USD which is the same cost as a new Ha-1. The C.LC is only 600 USD.
> 
> ...


 

 The Mjolnir 2 is pretty awesome with HD 800's.   Had the Ha-1 and I think Mjolnir 2 is hands down a better amp.  The Ha-1 however is a good all rounder if your looking for a one box solution.  Also the woo wa7 is a decent all rounder 1 box deal.


----------



## joshk4

I don't think you can go wrong with hdvd 800 (beside $$$)


----------



## versace

just ordered a new pair of hd800's can't wait! i have been using audeze el-8's since they came out - but thats another thread heh.


----------



## Mach3

zappazappazappa said:


> I previously used the Hugo into the Sennheiser HDVD800 which is the same amp as the HDVD600 and can highly recommend the combination. If you go down this route get yourself a balanced cable for the HD800's - either Sennheiser's own balanced cable or you could try Moon Audio's Black Dragon with a balanced 4 pin plug.The HD800's really 'sing' best connected to the front panel balanced socket  IMO. The only problem you may encounter using this combination is with the small  output sockets on the Hugo, so make sure the dealer you get your HDVD600 from can supply you with  a cable/s which you like and which fit properly.


 
  
 Quote:


zappazappazappa said:


> Hi,
> I am now using the Chord Hugo TT as a DAC in both balanced and single ended mode to the Sennheiser HDVD800 headphone amp. For the record I have found myself mostly listening in single ended mode though occasionally I prefer balanced. I guess the point I'm making is balanced connection throughout isn't a night and day improvement IMO so I wouldn't worry that the Hugo can only connect in single ended mode to the HDVD600 - it should still sound excellent. However balanced connection of the HD800's to the headphone amp is a big improvement IMO!


 
  
 Don't get me wrong, the chord hugo TT has a great DAC section. But why spend $5000 on a AMP/DAC to be the source of for $2000 AMP/DAC.
  
 Pretty certain the DAC section of the HDVD800 is the weakest part of the chain.
 Your Hugo TT is left with an unused AMP section.
  
 Really not spending money wise here. You can easily get a yggy DAC $2000 match with the HDVD600 and save at least $3500 no?


----------



## RUMAY408

I'm happy with the GS-Xmk2, but now shopping for the right DAC, i've heard the Yggy paired with a Rag, Cavalli Crimson and Carbon and the WA5 and was pretty impressed, any other suggestions I would be glad to hear about them


----------



## deuter

rumay408 said:


> I'm happy with the GS-Xmk2, but now shopping for the right DAC, i've heard the Yggy paired with a Rag, Cavalli Crimson and Carbon and the WA5 and was pretty impressed, any other suggestions I would be glad to hear about them


 
 There  are a plethora of dacs in that price range,  definitely recommend auditioning  them with your amp.  Thats how I selected mine.


----------



## zappazappazappa

mach3 said:


> Don't get me wrong, the chord hugo TT has a great DAC section. But why spend $5000 on a AMP/DAC to be the source of for $2000 AMP/DAC.
> 
> Pretty certain the DAC section of the HDVD800 is the weakest part of the chain.
> Your Hugo TT is left with an unused AMP section.
> ...


 

 Hi,
     I originally purchased the HDVD800 for home use and a Hugo for portable use however once I started to use Hugo at home as a DAC with the HDVD800 the on board DAC of the HDVD800 stopped getting used. So, yes I made a mistake  - I should have purchased the Sennheiser HDVD600 rather than the HDVD800 even though I think the on board DAC is pretty good.
  The reason I use the HDVD800 as an amp when the HugoTT has a very fine amp section is because as I mentioned above I believe balanced connection of the HD800's gets the best out of them - more presence/immediacy call it what you will. With the Hugo TT as DAC and HDVD800 as amp is the best I've heard the HD800's working. Though obviously there are many other amps which I haven't heard which may give even better results. One which I would like to hear is the new Nēo 430HA Headphone Amp (the one without an on board DAC!) On this subject has anyone compared the Neo to the Sennheiser amp? and with what results?
   Finally and let me just put on my tin hat and flak jacket first, if I was using the Chord Hugo TT as a one box solution the Sennheiser HD800 would not be my choice of headphone to pair it with.  For although it sounds good I prefer it with my other headphones: Oppo PM1 & Final Audio Design Pandora Hope VI - both of these sound wonderful with the Hugo TT as amp.


----------



## Samuel777

Hi;
 I'm about to order a cable for my HD800 to upgrade the stock cable.
 Do you think that this cable : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0128U336W?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_image_1&smid=A1Y2LLQTDNJ3AJ
 will be an real upgrade ?
 Thanks in advance
 sam


----------



## MattTCG

samuel777 said:


> Hi;
> I'm about to order a cable for my HD800 to upgrade the stock cable.
> Do you think that this cable : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0128U336W?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_image_1&smid=A1Y2LLQTDNJ3AJ
> will be an real upgrade ?
> ...


 
  
 Maybe. But grabbing a cable from an unknown is risky IMO. I'd pay the fair market price from a reputable dealer like Trevor a Norne Audio.


----------



## DavidA

samuel777 said:


> Hi;
> I'm about to order a cable for my HD800 to upgrade the stock cable.
> Do you think that this cable : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0128U336W?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_image_1&smid=A1Y2LLQTDNJ3AJ
> will be an real upgrade ?
> ...


 
 Have you heard a headphone cable that upgraded the sound?  I can see getting a short cable for desktop or portable use but the stock HD-800 cable is actually pretty good to begin with, just a little long for some.


----------



## Samuel777

davida said:


> Have you heard a headphone cable that upgraded the sound?  I can see getting a short cable for desktop or portable use but the stock HD-800 cable is actually pretty good to begin with, just a little long for some.


 

 Yes i  really want a simple cable, more flexible, because the stock one is too hard for me.


----------



## Sorrodje

Stock HD800 is a bit stiff and tends to twirl . The one I adviced you is less stiif but still heavy and well built.  It does not twirl at all


----------



## Samuel777

sorrodje said:


> Stock HD800 is a bit stiff and tends to twirl . The one I adviced you is less stiif but still heavy and well built.  It does not twirl at all


 

 Thanks so much !!!


----------



## Sorrodje

You're welcome. Don't forget it's still a heavy cable though.. it's not an IEM cable


----------



## Samuel777

sorrodje said:


> You're welcome. Don't forget it's still a heavy cable though.. it's not an IEM cable


 

 Is it possible to get one like IEM cable ?
 Really i was looking for something like that
 sam


----------



## bearFNF

"Q" french silk is very light and flexible. Like braided paracord.


----------



## raybone0566

samuel777 said:


> Is it possible to get one like IEM cable ?
> Really i was looking for something like that
> sam


eBay has some options.


----------



## Oregonian

bearfnf said:


> "Q" french silk is very light and flexible. Like braided paracord.


 

 I second the Q French Silk cable as being awesome, flexible and light. 
  
 In my case, I got a Norne Audio Vanquish 5' cable off the classified's here and it's just like the Q French Silk.  Love the braiding and how light and flexible it is.


----------



## Sorrodje

samuel777 said:


> Is it possible to get one like IEM cable ?
> Really i was looking for something like that
> sam


 
  
 Ask to Forza Audio works. Maybe they have the product you're looking for


----------



## Samuel777

oregonian said:


> I second the Q French Silk cable as being awesome, flexible and light.
> 
> In my case, I got a Norne Audio Vanquish 5' cable off the classified's here and it's just like the Q French Silk.  Love the braiding and how light and flexible it is.


 

 Give links please !!!!!!


----------



## maxedfx

samuel777 said:


> Give links please !!!!!!




http://theaudioguild.com/the-collection/#/q-cables/


----------



## Samuel777

maxedfx said:


> http://theaudioguild.com/the-collection/#/q-cables/


 

 Thanks,
 following your link i saw on the same website this link : http://btg-audio.com/webstore.htm#!/Sunset-Headphone-Cable/p/17894638/category=2609073
 and i like specially this cable. 
 the color and i think it will be soft.
 sam


----------



## bearFNF

I'd email them and ask for a comparison to the french silk stiffness.


----------



## Thenewguy007

mikoss said:


> Wondering if it's worthwhile to try the Tari mod...


 
 I'm pretty sure that is a joke topic/mod, unless you are serious dumb enough to actually put a condiment sauce inside your electronic headphones.


----------



## Oregonian

samuel777 said:


> Give links please !!!!!!


 
  
 http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/Norne-Vanquish-OCC-Litz-Headphone-Cable-Audeze-Hifiman-Sennheiser-AKG-Astell-Kern-AK240


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Also will recommend Norne, one of the best cables made for the HD800 is the Draug2, Trevor also has the Zoetic, which is extremely supple/soft.


----------



## Zoom25

I checked out Draug 2 on the website: 

  
  
 Why the non-linear pricing with respect to length? Any particular engineering reason that I might not be aware of... the 9 foot to 10 foot is quite steep! In the past, I've gotten linear pricing from Headphone Lounge.


----------



## Mortalcoil

+++1 with the Norne cable recommendations.  It has a fantastic reputation for being one of the top choices for the HD-800 (Draug 2).
  
 Hate to use the term "Synergy" but in this case it seems applicable by all accounts.
  
 I am waiting on mine as we speak


----------



## Thenewguy007

zoom25 said:


> I checked out Draug 2 on the website:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the non-linear pricing with respect to length? Any particular engineering reason that I might not be aware of... the 9 foot to 10 foot is quite steep! In the past, I've gotten linear pricing from Headphone Lounge.


 

 The length is all hand made & something about the Draug 2 takes more time to do then with the other cables.


----------



## henkie196

sorrodje said:


> Ask to Forza Audio works. Maybe they have the product you're looking for


 
 They have various options for HD800 cables, though I'm not sure they will be as thin and flexible as an IEM cable. The cables I've gotten from them are quite flexible and not very heavy, so I'd expect the HD800 cables to be quite good as well. I was actually considering getting an HD800 cable from them, but mostly because I find the stock cable to be way too long for me.


----------



## Sorrodje

henkie196 said:


> They have various options for HD800 cables, though I'm not sure they will be as thin and flexible as an IEM cable. The cables I've gotten from them are quite flexible and not very heavy, so I'd expect the HD800 cables to be quite good as well. I was actually considering getting an HD800 cable from them, but mostly because I find the stock cable to be way too long for me.


 
  
 The point is that those guys can make custom cables. So if you want a short and flexible cable, maybe they can make it for you.


----------



## shultzee

Charleston Cable Compay also makes some awesome cables.  http://www.c3audio.com
 I have owned his Audiophile cable  (UPOOC) for my lcd-x.  I now have a balanced , mid level (cardas) for my HD 800.  Very happy with both cables I got from him.
 The CARDAS does a awesome job with the HD 800.


----------



## wahsmoh

thenewguy007 said:


> The length is all hand made & something about the Draug 2 takes more time to do then with the other cables.


 

 Draug 2 is an 8-wire cable I believe and the braiding takes awhile too


----------



## Zoom25

thenewguy007 said:


> The length is all hand made & something about the Draug 2 takes more time to do then with the other cables.


 

 I see. Although the price jump from 9 feet to 10 feet is ridiculous. All of a sudden something magical happens at 10 feet that makes it harder to braid over 9 feet....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I would eventually like to try one though. I had Norne for Audeze's before and the cable looked so pretty.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

zoom25 said:


> I see. Although the price jump from 9 feet to 10 feet is ridiculous. All of a sudden something magical happens at 10 feet that makes it harder to braid over 9 feet....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sure... the length changes from one digit "9" to two digits "10," or twice as long a number.  Lucky the price of the 10 foot didn't DOUBLE over that of the 9 foot!


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Maybe they use hexadecimal?


----------



## Zoom25

ruthieandjohn said:


> Sure... the length changes from one digit "9" to two digits "10," or twice as long a number.  Lucky the price of the 10 foot didn't DOUBLE over that of the 9 foot!


 

 Sounds legit.
  
  
 Btw anyone tried Bestintheverse cable for the HD 800? How does it stack up to the Draug 2 or Cardas?


----------



## SearchOfSub

Looking for used HD-800, please PM.


----------



## maxedfx

Hello folks! 
New to the HD800 club from UAE. I am just starting up in the head-fi world, but always wanted good sound quality. My first and only HPs for the last couple of years were the psb m4u1 which I was very happy with. 
But then the bug bit a little harder especially discovering massdrop and got myself a k7xx and k553 pro's and was researching about a good mid-fi dac/amp.

Out of nowhere, I had an offer for the HD800 new in box for 900usd, which I couldn't pass up and got them.

Till now I have been using them from my Lumia 930 ( I know, sacrilege!!!) and using deezer and Xbox music in HQ mode.
Still was blown away by the SQ and soundstage.

But of course I'm looking at a good amp/dac for the hd800.

My budget is up to $1500,
Atm, I have an offer for the hdvd800+ch800s for $1500.
I have an offer for BH mainline at around $1300.(used, here locally)

I wanna know whether this is alright or you guys can recommend any other options to get more bang for the buck per se?

All advice are welcome. Thanks!

Edit: 
Also thinking about getting in line for the cavalli liquid carbon and getting a separate dac.


----------



## Redge78

wahsmoh said:


> Draug 2 is an 8-wire cable I believe and the braiding takes awhile too


 
 Draug2 is a 24-wire cable, and it's far from being lightweight. But it is surprisingly flexible.


----------



## Jeb Listens

After reading so much about the HD800s over the last couple of years I thought it was about time to listen to a pair.  I went to a high-street shop I knew had them to have a listen.  Their demo room was in a bit of turmoil and it turned into a bit of a fiasco.  They had a HDVA-600 but couldn't seem to get it hooked up.  Then they suggested using the headphone-out of my iPhone with an adapter.  Finally, they were able to set up a Cambridge-Audio integrated amp with it's partner CD-player.  I think the pair were something like £2000 so likely decent equipment in it's right but I'm not sure that the headphone-out of an integrated amp is optimal to say the least.   They were all super helpful in the store but I think it just wasn't a good time. 
  
 So..... I did manage to get a flavour of the HD-800s : obviously had so many preconceptions about what they would be like.  I thought they were excellent - so wide, amazing clarity  not really too bright for me at all, - and i'm a cry-baby about treble.  The bass seemed like it had excellent potential too.  I had previously listened to the HD700s and thought them to be a little lean and grainy, but did not come away with that impression of the HD-800s at all. 
  
 The physical fit was a little strange to me, but i'm coming from the death-clamp of the HD-650s and LCD-2Fs I have at the moment.  The HD800s seemed to exert little to no clamping force at all and all the weight is mostly on the headband.  I've never considered myself to be a micro-head but need to re-evaluate my self-image after this experience.   They weren't so loose as to fall off but it was a different feel.  Pushing gently against the cups seemed to make no real difference to the sound, so I don't think there was any problem with a good seal. 
  
 Anyway, not the best first-demo but i'm still excited by the HD-800s and I might go and give them another listen today at a different venue.  
  
 I'm thinking about swapping them in place of the LCD-2fs which don't seem to get a lot of use.   The HD-650s are rocking my world at the moment.


----------



## Gr8Desire

vnmslsrbms said:


> I agree that the HA-1 isn't the best choice.  I wouldn't say terrible.  Driven balanced gives it a much more even overall impact, but the highs are still higher than simply using the Taurus MKii using the HA-1 as DAC.  I used XLR for the connections.  For those who can't stand the treble, I don't the HD800 is that great a choice anyway.  But if you listen to it enough, you eventually get used to and start loving it.  Brain burn in is very powerful.  Also, real life cymbals really are very piercing.


 
  
 Just to balance the discussion:  I like the HA-1 and HD800 combination.  I prefer accuracy over the random coloring offered by tubes and less expensive SS amps I have tried.
  
 I use the balanced connector to get more power but don't hear much difference at lower volumes. 

 FWIW: I like treble extension and have no problem using a bit of EQ for content that needs help.


----------



## Taowolf51

jeb listens said:


> The physical fit was a little strange to me, but i'm coming from the death-clamp of the HD-650s and LCD-2Fs I have at the moment.  The HD800s seemed to exert little to no clamping force at all and all the weight is mostly on the headband.  I've never considered myself to be a micro-head but need to re-evaluate my self-image after this experience.   They weren't so loose as to fall off but it was a different feel.  Pushing gently against the cups seemed to make no real difference to the sound, so I don't think there was any problem with a good seal.


 
  
 The HD800's fit differently than most headphones, there's very little clamp to speak of.


----------



## Jeb Listens

taowolf51 said:


> The HD800's fit differently than most headphones, there's very little clamp to speak of.


 

 Cool - yes thank you - just different to what I am used to.  I expect the death-clamp, but happy not to need it.   
  
 Went for demo no.2 today at a different location.  This time they were quite well prepared.  The source was some massive & very expensive Naim stack - I'm not sure what it was - some kind of DAC/Streamer thingy but it also had two separate large power supply units.  He set this up to feed an HDVD-800.   I brought my LCD-2Fs along so was able to spend a couple of hours carefully listening to both and see how they differed.
  
 I am definitely leaning to the HD-800s.  The LCD-2Fs were a little darker than the HD800s but not as much as I expected with both essentially sounding clean and not far off what I call neutral.  The HD-800s having superior extension at both ends.  The main difference I found was that the Audeze's sounded more narrow and slightly congested vs the 800s.  I also found that when I pushed the volume a little more, the HD-800s seemed to maintain their integrity a little better.   The whole system was new to me so it was hard to judge what was contributing to what but I would love to see how  much you could flesh out the HD-800s a little more with a great tube-amp. 
  
 It was a really fun experience.  When I was in there another guy came in to demo the HD-800s and had a listen to my LCDs too.  The first thing I thought when he put them on was "wow is that what I look like?!"   It was great to share a face to face conversation with someone else who was into headphones -  I really need to get to some meets/get-togethers sometime soon.


----------



## JamieMcC

Jeb you will selling that Crack of yours and Grabbing a Mainline to go with the HD800's where abouts are you in the UK?


----------



## Jeb Listens

Hi Jamie - lol - never sell the Crack, it's my pride & joy and still need to Speedball it!    but for HD-800 Mainline is also a future possible.  Definitely tubes of some description will be the order of the day.  
  
 Do you like the HD-800s on the Speedball/Modded Crack ? 
  
 I'm South-West England - Bristol.


----------



## raybone0566

jeb listens said:


> Cool - yes thank you - just different to what I am used to.  I expect the death-clamp, but happy not to need it.
> 
> Went for demo no.2 today at a different location.  This time they were quite well prepared.  The source was some massive & very expensive Naim stack - I'm not sure what it was - some kind of DAC/Streamer thingy but it also had two separate large power supply units.  He set this up to feed an HDVD-800.   I brought my LCD-2Fs along so was able to spend a couple of hours carefully listening to both and see how they differed.
> 
> ...


 that must have been cool. I've yet to meet another headphone enthusiast yet. All I have is my wife constantly shaking her head.


----------



## JamieMcC

jeb listens said:


> Hi Jamie - lol - never sell the Crack, it's my pride & joy and still need to Speedball it!    but for HD-800 Mainline is also a future possible.  Definitely tubes of some description will be the order of the day.
> 
> Do you like the HD-800s on the Speedball/Modded Crack ?
> 
> I'm South-West England - Bristol.


 

 James I  have only tried my HD800's with the standard Crack and Speedball and then only used it for a couple of days as I had built the Crack for someone else and needed to ship it off. I though it was fine in stock form and am absolutely positive Crack that has been breathed on will really ratchet up the performance levels and be very enjoyable.
  
 Had a senior moment as I knew you lived in Bristol already   
  
 How far have you got with your mods did have you fitted the choke and film caps yet?


----------



## Jeb Listens

raybone0566 said:


> that must have been cool. I've yet to meet another headphone enthusiast yet. All I have is my wife constantly shaking her head.


 

 lol !  You're lucky - those disapproving looks from partner/wife are natural checks on complete & utter wallet-destruction.  I should know, I'm a single-guy. 
  
  
@JamieMcC  -  great, thanks and no worries ! I Haven't done the mods yet -  recently received the Speedball kit & just gathered fixtures & fittings,  soviet-teflons for bypass & a new pot so I can have a good session of it soon.  Sounds excellent in stock form, but really looking forward to tightening things up a little.  Nice to know its another option for HD-800s too. 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Sorrodje

As promised some time ago. here is how I made my Rugliner mod for my HD800. I know the Rugliner mod is something different HD800 owners use here or there and I think it's inspired from the last evolution of the Anax mod. I'm not the creator of the idea. 
  
  
 First , I removed my Dust covers and decided I could destroy them. Sacrifices are sometimes useful. 
  
 I cut a hole in the dust cover. the hole sits in front the driver and is sized acccordingly. I used a glass to cut properly. :
  

  

  
 Then I cut the bastardized dust cover in the middle of the narrower part :
  

  
 Then,  I have something  quite flat I can use as a template for the rugliner. I just maintened the template as firmly as I can on the Rugliner and cut around with a cutter.  No need to be ultra precise. The purpose is to achiever a piece of Rugliner that has the same shape than the template but you'll can adjust finely the piece of Rugliner when you'll insert the rugliner in the cup.  
  

  

  
  
 You just need to put the Piece of rugliner in the cups and push it under the pads and adjust the rugliner until it fits. If some rugliner overflows the driver, then adjust wit a scissor or the cutter until it fits as you want. 
  

  
  
 No need of glue . The only shortcomings is the murder of one dust cover 
  
 Hope my explanations in bad english will be understandable  
  
  
 This is the Rugliner I used :


----------



## maxedfx

Guys, need your advice!!!

I have whittled down to three options for amp/dac pairing for my HD 800.

1. HDVD 800 + CH800S.(used)
2. HDVA 600 + iDSD.(used+new)
3. Schiit Mjolnir 2 + bifrost/gungnir multibit.(new)
Edit:
4. Cavalli LC + idsd or any other dac combo.

I don't want to jump into tube rolling atm. That's why the mj2 incase I want to later!
Option 1 & 2 is pretty safe bet as far as I can see.. But two may be redundant coz the idsd is a pretty good pairing with the HD 800.
If I go the LC route, I can get a idsd for now and wait for the LC.

Looking for your recommendations guys. So many choices and I'm going crazy! I realize this is what happens when diving straight down without going thought the steps! LOL!





maxedfx said:


> Hello folks!
> New to the HD800 club from UAE. I am just starting up in the head-fi world, but always wanted good sound quality. My first and only HPs for the last couple of years were the psb m4u1 which I was very happy with.
> But then the bug bit a little harder especially discovering massdrop and got myself a k7xx and k553 pro's and was researching about a good mid-fi dac/amp.
> 
> ...


----------



## shultzee

maxedfx said:


> Guys, need your advice!!!
> 
> I have whittled down to three options for amp/dac pairing for my HD 800.
> 
> ...






Option 3. .... You can shape the sound a little later if you want. The mj 2 takes a little of the edge off the hd800 without losing any detail. Pure bliss with the right tubes.


----------



## maxedfx

@shultzee, thanks!
If I go with option 3, which will be a better choice for the dac, bifrost or Gumby??


----------



## shultzee

I havent heard the gumby. Reports are its good though. I did have a uber bitfrost and it was just ok imho.


----------



## Caguioa

Whats a good price to get some hd800's?

im looking for 
$1200 on amazon
and on ebay i seen them alittle over $1050 the seller has alot of feedback etc.

also i do alot of traveling and was wondering what kind of amps would i need to amke sure i can get full or somewhat close to best experience on hd 800.

for example
i have alot of mp3,wmv,avi,mp4 files etc, that i would like to use for high end media like on my phone,tablet and laptop
so i will need a good amp to use,

heres what im looking at right now
good would this amp./dac be on phone and tablets?

http://www.amazon.com/Fiio-E17K-ALPEN-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00RPD7KP8/ref=zg_bs_10980761_15

and would i need this as bridge tablet>e17>ie 800

/www.amazon.com/Right-Angle-3-5mm-Stereo-Audio-L17/dp/B00R9WAYC6/ref=pd_sim_23_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0FTN95JZSJ2T0S8BCRRJ

and this for my desktop
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008J26ZL4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=A2RI9OCHT7SAAA


----------



## Thenewguy007

sorrodje said:


> As promised some time ago. here is how I made my Rugliner mod for my HD800. I know the Rugliner mod is something different HD800 owners use here or there and I think it's inspired from the last evolution of the Anax mod. I'm not the creator of the idea.
> 
> 
> First , I removed my Dust covers and decided I could destroy them. Sacrifices are sometimes useful.
> ...


 
  
 Wait, you destroyed the dust cover just to use it a template?
 Aren't there pdf template files that you can print for these type of mods?


----------



## Sorrodje

I was too lazy to produce a template but I can do that easily for sure.  It's indeed a bit stupid to advice to everyone to do that.  
  
  Just explained how I did  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  that's all.


----------



## Zoom25

This weekend I picked up a bunch of 24 bit albums, including 24 bit versions of albums that I already had in 16 bit. Both versions were official WEB releases. Had both versions converted and playing in WAV. The HD 800 responded really well to the 24 bit recordings. Can't wait to see how much difference the BDP-1 will make when I get it sometime this or next week, over my current Audirvana Plus + Macbook Pro setup.


----------



## whirlwind

Got this saturday and it is sounding heavenly with my HD800


----------



## Khragon

whirldwind, nice amp!!! is that a Norne Draug v2 cable? what do you think of it?
  
 Can anyone comment on Norne Zoetic cable?  I'm debating between it and the Draug v2, mainly because it's seem to be quite a bit lighter, and more flexible.  I'm looking at getting a 10-12' cable.


----------



## whirlwind

Hi Khragon.
  
 Yes it is a Norme Draug V2.
  
 I like it....very nice cable indeed and Trevors quality is top notch for sure.


----------



## Khragon

How's the ease of use for Draug v2 compared to stock?  does it drag down the headphone?  it looked heavy .


----------



## whirlwind

Mine seems fine, it is short though.....mine is only 5 ft.
  
 I would say it is heavier than the stock cable, as I remember the stock cable being light.....just too dang long for me.
  
 It sounded good though.


----------



## Caguioa

right now i am looking at

Sony PHA-3 vs oppa ha-2

deicing if these are worth purchasing,


----------



## Mortalcoil

Congrats whirlwind on the new amp.  Enjoy it


----------



## Mortalcoil

caguioa said:


> right now i am looking at
> 
> Sony PHA-3 vs oppa ha-2
> 
> deicing if these are worth purchasing,


 

   These are potential portable solutions (mostly in the PHA-3's favour IMO)
  
 Realistically though the 800 is not an ideal portable hp.  My suggestion would be to stick with a more home based desktop solution.
  
 Do some more research around here until you find something that fits your budget and meshes well with the 800.


----------



## Caguioa

mortalcoil said:


> These are potential portable solutions (mostly in the PHA-3's favour IMO)
> 
> Realistically though the 800 is not an ideal portable hp.  My suggestion would be to stick with a more home based desktop solution.
> 
> Do some more research around here until you find something that fits your budget and meshes well with the 800.




well i was thinking of getting the other flagship model ie800 with 1 of those 2 portable amps,


----------



## Mortalcoil

caguioa said:


> well i was thinking of getting the other flagship model ie800 with 1 of those 2 portable amps,


 
  
  Hmmmmm ....ok well in that case I would still stick with the Sony.
  
 Looks like its built like a tank vs the slickness / less weight of the OPPO.
  
 I say Sony all the way.
  
 Doesn't hurt though to keep researching Caguioa.....perhaps another member will chime in with first hand experience also.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Anyone else not impressed with the soundstage & imaging of the HD800 when they first heard it?
  
 One of the reasons I bought these because everyone kept saying how amazing the soundstage is. It'll blow you away when you first hear it, with its never ending depth & width! Also the super 3D holographic imaging all around your head!
  
 When I heard for the first time, all I heard was the soundstage being a tad bit more spacious than what I own. No 'wow' moments, nothing coming lose to be blown away.
  
 Doing A/B test, the imaging on the LCD-2 hands down beats the HD800, especially for instrumentals.
 In fact, from my memory,  my former Philips Fidelio X1 & Audio Technica AD700 had a wider soundstage.


----------



## whirlwind

Mine are sounding better than they ever have


----------



## ZoNtO

thenewguy007 said:


> Anyone else not impressed with the soundstage & imaging of the HD800 when they first heard it?
> 
> One of the reasons I bought these because everyone kept saying how amazing the soundstage is. It'll blow you away when you first hear it, with its never ending depth & width! Also the super 3D holographic imaging all around your head!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Perhaps the headphones are just not for you. That's ok. Sell them, enjoy your LCD-2, and laugh all the way to the bank. Cross-posting on multiple forums to try and justify a purchase that doesn't jive with you personally just isn't worth all the mental anguish.


----------



## Thenewguy007

zonto said:


> Perhaps the headphones are just not for you. That's ok. Sell them, enjoy your LCD-2, and laugh all the way to the bank. Cross-posting on multiple forums to try and justify a purchase that doesn't jive with you personally just isn't worth all the mental anguish.


 
  
 I never said they weren't for me.
  
 People who gave those insanely hyperbole reviews usually have specifically tailored high end gear that pairs very with the headphones.
  
 I just want to know what people think of the HD800 without them.


----------



## Taowolf51

thenewguy007 said:


> Anyone else not impressed with the soundstage & imaging of the HD800 when they first heard it?
> 
> One of the reasons I bought these because everyone kept saying how amazing the soundstage is. It'll blow you away when you first hear it, with its never ending depth & width! Also the super 3D holographic imaging all around your head!


 
  
 Yep, the only real difference between the HD800 and anything else is that the HD800's soundstage is fully "outside" your head, but only just.
  


thenewguy007 said:


> Doing A/B test, the imaging on the LCD-2 hands down beats the HD800, especially for instrumentals.


 
  
 This, however, does not fit my experience, my LCD-2 was not as wide/deep as my HD800.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

After hearing a decent soundstage on speakers, not likely I'll be happy with any headphone "soundstage". I'm OK with headphone limitations, but still always looking forward to the next upgrade!


----------



## raybone0566

I've never heard joe bonamassa's "sloe gin" album sound so good until I got my hd800's. My lcd2's never gave me that holy **** feeling like the hd's did.


----------



## Sennophile

Can you elaborate, please?


----------



## henkie196

I don't know about imaging (instrument positioning), I've never been able to hear that, on any setup. Soundstage on the HD800 is quite alright for a headphone (or what I perceive soundstage to be; it's a bit of a nebulous term to me). But a bit strange at times. Sometimes it just seems like it tears apart the different instruments, so that it seems I'm listening to them individually instead of all together. Disconnection, or something. It depends on the music, though.
  
 They're very good for listening to the small little details, and they're not as closed-in sounding as my in-ears, so for me, they're good for what I bought them for. If I'm home alone, though, and no-one is there to be bothered by my music, I prefer my speakers.


----------



## Sennophile

Despite having listened to very elaborate speaker setups, I still find soundstage, detail rendition and definition of the HD 800 unsurpassed.


----------



## Moonhead

Well HQ active speakers are close or maybe on par With HD800, but that is for another thread.


----------



## henkie196

sennophile said:


> Despite having listened to very elaborate speaker setups, I still find soundstage, detail rendition and definition of the HD 800 unsurpassed.


 

 Detail, yes. Also, the HD800 isn't hampered by room acoustics.


----------



## vnmslsrbms

sennophile said:


> Despite having listened to very elaborate speaker setups, I still find soundstage, detail rendition and definition of the HD 800 unsurpassed.


 
 Well I've heard many speaker setups that surpass the HD800 in terms of all three that you presented, so YMMV.  But I will say that the HD800 is better than many mid-fi systems.  I'm not sure how you define soundstage, since there is no way for headphones to actually present a soundstage properly (like in front of the listener vs around the head of) to the listener.  Thus that's one main characteristic of headphone listening that IMO can't surpass speakers. Unless we all switch to binaural recordings which brings it a little closer.  I don't think crossfeed really does it.  But there could be better implementations to try.  Although, there are now some who actually grew up with and prefer the headphone in your head soundstage.  So maybe the world is changing?


----------



## koiloco

sennophile said:


> Despite having listened to very elaborate speaker setups, I still find soundstage, detail rendition and definition of the HD 800 unsurpassed.


 
 That means you haven't listened to enough speaker setups.  
  
 We all love our HD800s but let's not make them into something they r not.  If the topic were performance returned/$ invested, then the HD800 would be hard to surpass in comparison to speakers.
  
 Of course, this is all IMHO


----------



## Zoom25

koiloco said:


> That means you haven't listened to enough speaker setups.
> 
> We alI love our HD800s but let's not make them into something the r not.  If the topic were performance returned/$ invested, then the HD800 would be hard to surpassed in comparison to speakers.
> 
> Of course, this is all IMHO


 

 I've found $4000 to be the spot where the HD 800 unquestionably lose out to monitors.


----------



## jlbrach

It is a completely different experience...i own B&W 802's and absolutely love them but there are times i enjoy listening to my 800's just as much


----------



## rwalkerphl

sennophile said:


> Despite having listened to very elaborate speaker setups, I still find soundstage, detail rendition and definition of the HD 800 unsurpassed.


 
  
  


koiloco said:


> That means you haven't listened to enough speaker setups.
> 
> We alI love our HD800s but let's not make them into something the r not.  If the topic were performance returned/$ invested, then the HD800 would be hard to surpassed in comparison to speakers.
> 
> Of course, this is all IMHO


 
  
  


zoom25 said:


> I've found $4000 to be the spot where the HD 800 unquestionably lose out to monitors.


 
 I agree that comparing them to speakers shows them to be what they are - headphones (that is not meant to be a criticism, as I love my HD800's). I have found the point where speakers surpass headphones to be a lot lower. I have a set of Dynaudio Acoustics BM5 MK II's and a matching BM9 sub, and they favorable compare to the HD800's at about the same prices as a new pair of HD800's.


----------



## rwalkerphl

Is it me, or does anyone else notice something odd about this photo? Bad on Apogee...


----------



## lamboy1

Quote:   WOW he has them Backwards 





rwalkerphl said:


> Is it me, or does anyone else notice something odd about this photo? Bad on Apogee...


----------



## longbowbbs

rwalkerphl said:


> Is it me, or does anyone else notice something odd about this photo? Bad on Apogee...


 
 Classic....


----------



## Taowolf51

rwalkerphl said:


> Is it me, or does anyone else notice something odd about this photo? Bad on Apogee...


 
  
 Why the hell does everyone do this? First my friend (just about every damn time he puts them on), then that dude from Light Harmonic, and now Apogee? Come on, the left and right markings are freaking HUGE on the HD800.


----------



## henkie196

To be fair, it was my first reaction to put them on like that as well. The headband orientation is somewhat unorthodox


----------



## koiloco

taowolf51 said:


> Why the hell does everyone do this? First my friend (just about every damn time he puts them on), then that dude from Light Harmonic, and now Apogee? Come on, the left and right markings are freaking HUGE on the HD800.


 
 It could be intentional channel reversal.  I do it quite often when mixing a complicated track.  Switching L/R, then back to normal does wonder in resetting your hearing.  Let's hope in the picture, the dude was doing exactly that.


----------



## Taowolf51

koiloco said:


> It could be intentional channel reversal.  I do it quite often when mixing a complicated track.  Switching L/R, then back to normal does wonder in resetting your hearing.  Let's hope in the picture, the dude was doing exactly that.


 
  
 Wouldn't it be far easier to do that in software? Flipping the HD800 backwards not only gives it a massive seal problem (which admittedly doesn't do much to the HD800 sound-wise) but has the drivers pointing sound to the back of your ears.
  
 I wonder if the reason Sennhieser put giant and obvious "LR" indicators on the HD800 was because testers kept wearing them backwards.


----------



## RUMAY408

well that says it all, Matt at a recent meet, guess the Amp/DAC and music


----------



## JamieMcC

Dac upgradeitus  has struck and really it seems like I am going round in circles looking at the used options in the  £300-400 price range that are available in the UK. I am using predominantly HD800's with the Bottlehead Mainline.
  
 The list includes
  
 Audiolab Mdac, BenchMark MK1, JKenny, Wyred4Sound, Eastern Electric minimax, Matrix X sabre (a little more), Yulong sabre d18, Chord Jem, Resonessence Concero, Metrum Octave.
  
 I would also say I enjoy my current Marantz dac which is in my NA7004 network player this has solidly outperformed a number of  hifi cd source options I have tried its dac section is reportedly the same as in the Marantz Pearl CD reference player.
  
 Do you guys who have had a chance to listen to a few of them have any firm favourite's I would like to pair down the list a little.
  
 So far the BenchMark and Metrum look the most appealing I suspect because I think they would offer a different listening experience rather than being a more of sideways step to what I am used to but I could well be completely wrong.
  
 Cheers


----------



## AlanU

jamiemcc said:


> Dac upgradeitus  has struck and really it seems like I am going round in circles looking at the used options in the  £300-400 price range that are available in the UK. I am using predominantly HD800's with the Bottlehead Mainline.
> 
> The list includes
> 
> ...


 
 As far as DAC's are concerned the lateral upgrades is due to the price range. The house sound changes as folks go higher up in the chain. Most $1000 range dac's sound good with minor house sound differences to a point. Are you looking for warmth??? Marantz is usually known for a "warm" house sound.
  
 That being said there's other things to try...... you may find changing the end transducer (hd800 to ???) will change the dynamics of the music. Finding synergy is based on the collective chain of events from power supply, source, Dac, amp and HP.  
  
 I'll have to say the wyred4sound and concero is something I did not fancy.  hyper detailed and no warmth at all. If I was into only electronica I'd find those dac's to be suitable but for jazz/vocals the sound is definitely not musical. I tend to stay away from Sabre chipsets. I will accept a minor lack of detail from a burr brown to gain some more organic musical warmth. I had a concero HD and the sound was extremely digital and artificial massive sound stage that did not suite my components.  
  
 Another alternative is to sift through your inventory of DACs and start rolling more tubes with your amplifier. This may help you find the sound your looking for. 
  
 I'd take the time to sell off majority of your DACs. Spend alot more on the dac since source is king. 
  
 Now that the Air conditioned rooms are not a requirement I'm back to my 2 channel. Even my modest headphone rig I start my power source with a Blue Circle power conditioner and Furuetech Alpha 3 power cord (because I have them kicking around).  My HP rig is not quite there yet but good enough for my casual use. I'm also casually looking into a different DAC but with my experience I know I'll have to spend alot for the SQ quest.


----------



## shultzee

jamiemcc said:


> Dac upgradeitus  has struck and really it seems like I am going round in circles looking at the used options in the  £300-400 price range that are available in the UK. I am using predominantly HD800's with the Bottlehead Mainline.
> 
> The list includes
> 
> ...


 

 Unlike the previous poster I am a sabre chipset fan.   I have owned both the matrix x saber and the concero HD.  The concero HD to me had better implentation of the chipset.
 Many of the dacs sound just blah and I am a fan of hearing all the detail.  Sabre dacs give you that.  Its all a matter of personal preference.  There isn't a right or wrong , but individuals have different taste.  I had a Uber Bitfost once and dumped it within 30 days.  I am sure it was a  very good dac but not my cup of tea.


----------



## Dadracer

How about the Auralic Ark MX which you should be able to get 2nd hand around that price now as it was discontinued when the Vega came out.


----------



## Sorrodje

jamiemcc said:


> Dac upgradeitus  has struck and really it seems like I am going round in circles looking at the used options in the  £300-400 price range that are available in the UK. I am using predominantly HD800's with the Bottlehead Mainline.
> 
> The list includes
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Your HD800 + Mainline combo probably deserves better . Maybe a good choice would be to save more money and try the New Schitt Gungnir Multibit.   I own the old Theta and some good ears told me that the Theta is in the same league than Yggdrasil and Gungnir . The least i can say is , for example the Metrum Octave can't even dream to approach what the theta is capable of.  My 2 cents.
  
 I lived with the metrum Octave during one year and was really happy with it though. But IME , for example,  A Meier DACCORD is far superior ( resolution , soundstage, transparency) even if octave tonality is great wit a HD800.


----------



## JamieMcC

sorrodje said:


> Your HD800 + Mainline combo probably deserves better . Maybe a good choice would be to save more money and try the New Schitt Gungnir Multibit.   I own the old Theta and some good ears told me that the Theta is in the same league than Yggdrasil and Gungnir . The least i can say is , for example the Metrum Octave can't even dream to approach what the theta is capable of.  My 2 cents.
> 
> I lived with the metrum Octave during one year and was really happy with it though. But IME , for example,  A Meier DACCORD is far superior ( resolution , soundstage, transparency) even if octave tonality is great wit a HD800.


 
  
 I think you are probable right but and funds are available perhaps up to £1000 but I would really like to try and refine what qualities I am looking for by testing the water with a couple of well regarded middle tier dacs before leaping in somewhat blindly into a more expensive dac.
  
 Thanks for the heads up on the DACCORD I have added it to the list it looks interesting and will do some more reading up on it.


----------



## Caguioa

what music files do u guys listen to?

i ahve alot of mp3 random 126,256,kbps 

i want to start getting high res audio files for high end headphones

also is there a Dap music player + what music files i can use that full brings out hd 800?
any recommendations?


----------



## bearFNF

Flac mostly...


----------



## Sorrodje

jamiemcc said:


> I think you are probable right but and funds are available perhaps up to £1000 but I would really like to try and refine what qualities I am looking for by testing the water with a couple of well regarded middle tier dacs before leaping in somewhat blindly into a more expensive dac.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up on the DACCORD I have added it to the list it looks interesting and will do some more reading up on it.


 
  
 I got your point. Very wise indeed


----------



## Thenewguy007

jamiemcc said:


> Dac upgradeitus  has struck and really it seems like I am going round in circles looking at the used options in the  £300-400 price range that are available in the UK. I am using predominantly HD800's with the Bottlehead Mainline.
> 
> The list includes
> 
> ...


 
  
 I too am looking a for a DAC upgrade.
 All fingers point to the top R2R, no over sample or no feedback DACs.
  
 Schiit Gungnir Multibit upgrade is it ($1,300).
 Below it in price is the Audio-GD 19 anniversary DAC ($800).
  
 The Metrum Octave MKII also has have very positive reviews. ($1,300)


----------



## henkie196

caguioa said:


> what music files do u guys listen to?
> 
> i ahve alot of mp3 random 126,256,kbps
> 
> ...


 
 MP3, FLAC. I don't hear any difference between a well ripped 320 kbps MP3 and a FLAC, but have all the CDs I still have ripped to FLAC because it is lossless and the disk space is largely a non-issue nowadays.
  
 I wouldn't bother with higher than CD quality FLACs, though. There is little benefit in going above the standard 16 bit / 44.1 kHz quality, except maybe if that higher bitrate also happens to be based on a better master of the recording.
  
 As for DAPs, it probably horrifies some people here, but I find that running the HD800 from my DX90, it sounds just fine. I can't detect any sound quality difference between the DX90 headphone out and the headphone out of my NAD amplifier with built-in DAC.


----------



## azazell86

henkie196 said:


> MP3, FLAC. I don't hear any difference between a well ripped 320 kbps MP3 and a FLAC, but have all the CDs I still have ripped to FLAC because it is lossless and the disk space is largely a non-issue nowadays.
> 
> I wouldn't bother with higher than CD quality FLACs, though. There is little benefit in going above the standard 16 bit / 44.1 kHz quality, except maybe if that higher bitrate also happens to be based on a better master of the recording.
> 
> As for DAPs, it probably horrifies some people here, but I find that running the HD800 from my DX90, it sounds just fine. I can't detect any sound quality difference between the DX90 headphone out and the headphone out of my NAD amplifier with built-in DAC.




I can really feel the difference between 320 Kbps Mp3's and normal FLAC's and also 24 bit Vinyl ripped FLAC of the same song.

My example would be the Beatles - Strawberry Fields Forever song - in which I can really feel quite a big chance from the different formats used to play the song. And this is coming from a guy who spent 400 euros on a CARDAS Clear cable for the HD800 and now uses the default cable because it's lighter - as there's no significant differece between them.


----------



## Zoom25

azazell86 said:


> I can really feel the difference between 320 Kbps Mp3's and normal FLAC's and also *24 bit Vinyl ripped FLAC of the same song.*
> 
> My example would be the Beatles - Strawberry Fields Forever song - in which I can really feel quite a big chance from the different formats used to play the song. And this is coming from a guy who spent 400 euros on a CARDAS Clear cable for the HD800 and now uses the default cable because it's lighter - as there's no significant differece between them.


 
  
 I personally prefer WEB release FLAC over 24 bit vinyl rips. 24 bit WEB releases however are my favourite - closest to studio masters.


----------



## Womaz

Just an update for all the people who might be interested.
 My dem HE1000 arrive tomorrow so today my local dealer let me take the HD800s away for a few days. They are a brand new pair and he says they will sound better after 72 hours or so.
 One concern I had was that I would not find much difference from my Q701s as I am 52 year old and ears probably not what they used to be.
 Wow though straight out of the box. Soundstage soundstage detail detail and clarity. Absolutely different league to my 701s. They actually have a similar type sound to the 701s but just do it much better. When I put the 701s back on its like I have a cotton mud stuck in my ear.
 I am no headphone expert like some on here and that’s why I see your advice. The jump up in SQ has taken me completely by surprise.
 Slightly bright at times but I am hoping that will go with the burn in, and only one cable and no balanced cable are my only moans. Although HD800 may be better on standard anyway I have no idea.
 The HE1000 arrive tomorrow and are double the price! So that will be interesting.
 I know now that I will be buying some new headphones ………just time will tell which ones.


----------



## HiFiChris

womaz said:


> Just an update for all the people who might be interested.
> My dem HE1000 arrive tomorrow so today my local dealer let me take the HD800s away for a few days. They are a brand new pair and he says they will sound better after 72 hours or so.
> One concern I had was that I would not find much difference from my Q701s as I am 52 year old and ears probably not what they used to be.
> Wow though straight out of the box. Soundstage soundstage detail detail and clarity. Absolutely different league to my 701s. They actually have a similar type sound to the 701s but just do it much better. When I put the 701s back on its like I have a cotton mud stuck in my ear.
> ...




After having owned the HD 800 for a couple of months, I put on my old K701 just for fun. For me, the difference was also quite big, so instead of listening to the HD 800, I took notes and compared both with each other, with the result of having written a German review comparison. 
My conclusion was by the way pretty much the same. 

I know a few people that didn't find the sonic difference to justify the higher price, but for me, I can say that it is worth every single cent and I wouldn't be able to listen to the K701 as only headphone anymore.


----------



## Womaz

Just to add a wonderfully built HP too


----------



## Womaz

Treble definitely a tad bright though, hoping this is because they are brand new


----------



## Sorrodje

womaz said:


> Treble definitely a tad bright though, hoping this is because they are brand new


 
  
 Nope. it won't change


----------



## Womaz

sorrodje said:


> Nope. it won't change


 
 That would be a real shame. I love the soundstage and detail, so maybe a bright treble is the price you have to pay.
 its only on certain tracks.


----------



## xp9433

henkie196 said:


> I can't detect any sound quality difference between the DX90 headphone out and the headphone out of my NAD amplifier with built-in DAC.


 
 henkie 196
 What NAD prouct do you own? I ask because I have a 390DD and the USB DAC is poor quality. That could be why your DAP sounds "as good"?
 Frank-*--


----------



## Sorrodje

womaz said:


> its only on certain tracks.


 
  
  
 Welcome in HD800 world... "Plug it and pray" .


----------



## Wildcatsare1

womaz said:


> That would be a real shame. I love the soundstage and detail, so maybe a bright treble is the price you have to pay.
> its only on certain tracks.




Try a set of Norne Draug 2 Cables, haven't done the Analaxius (so?) mod yet. Thought I needed tubes but don't think there is much that is better Than my Taurus Mk.2.


----------



## Womaz

wildcatsare1 said:


> Try a set of Norne Draug 2 Cables, haven't done the Analaxius (so?) mod yet. Thought I needed tubes but don't think there is much that is better Than my Taurus Mk.2.




It's just a demo set for now so won't be able to try that


----------



## Womaz

sorrodje said:


> Welcome in HD800 world... "Plug it and pray" .




You must like them though as you have kept them as your main HP ?


----------



## Womaz

I am no headphone guru by any means but I would imagine every headphone has a trade off


----------



## henkie196

xp9433 said:


> henkie 196
> What NAD prouct do you own? I ask because I have a 390DD and the USB DAC is poor quality. That could be why your DAP sounds "as good"?
> Frank-*--


 
 It's the DAC that can be added to the C375 and C356. I haven't heard the 390DD, but would be surprised if it was worse than the DAC in my amplifier. What do you find poor quality about it?
  
 As for the DAC, I prefer it over the ESS9018 that is in my Oppo BDP-105 (the same DAC that is also used in the DX90), because to me it sounds a bit more neutral. The DX90 and BDP-105 tend to sound a bit more laid back. With my speakers, both sound good, and I wouldn't be able to say that I find the sound quality lacking somehow.


----------



## Sorrodje

womaz said:


> You must like them though as you have kept them as your main HP ?


 
  
 Yeah. The HD800 is my reference headphone but I listen mostly to well recorded/mastered high DR music fortunately for me


----------



## Womaz

sorrodje said:


> Yeah. The HD800 is my reference headphone but I listen mostly to well recorded/mastered high DR music fortunately for me




I won't have that luxury as FLAC files mostly. And a varied musical taste , everything except classical which I would imagine the HD 800 does very well


----------



## jlbrach

i do not think the treble is too bright on the 800...i think it is brutally revealing and as a result will sound that way on certain recordings...there is a difference


----------



## Womaz

jlbrach said:


> i do not think the treble is too bright on the 800...i think it is brutally revealing and as a result will sound that way on certain recordings...there is a difference




Yes like I said I am no headphone guru so I accept that . The sipoundstage and detail is incredible. It's amazing straight out of the box but I am slightly concerned that the bright treble or whatever you want to call it, will prove fatiguing. However I don't tend to listen for more than say 3 hours at a time


----------



## Thenewguy007

hifichris said:


> After having owned the HD 800 for a couple of months, I put on my old K701 just for fun. For me, the difference was also quite big, so instead of listening to the HD 800, I took notes and compared both with each other, with the result of having written a German review comparison.
> My conclusion was by the way pretty much the same.
> 
> I know a few people that didn't find the sonic difference to justify the higher price, but for me, I can say that it is worth every single cent and I wouldn't be able to listen to the K701 as only headphone anymore.


 

 Yeah, the sound signature of the HD800 always seemed like a AKG 701 on steroids.
  
 edit:


womaz said:


> Yes like I said I am no headphone guru so I accept that . The sipoundstage and detail is incredible. It's amazing straight out of the box but I am slightly concerned that the bright treble or whatever you want to call it, will prove fatiguing. However I don't tend to listen for more than say 3 hours at a time


 
  
  
 Umm, the DAC you are using costs* $10,000?*
 Holy ****! No wonder you are noticing such a huge soundstage.


----------



## Womaz

thenewguy007 said:


> Yeah, the sound signature of the HD800 always seemed like a AKG 701 on steroids.
> 
> edit:
> 
> ...


 

 The Devialet 200 yes, it is special


----------



## Womaz

My dealer says they need around 72 hours to settle in.......what sort of improvements can I hope to hear if any


----------



## kapanak

womaz said:


> My dealer says they need around 72 hours to settle in.......what sort of improvements can I hope to hear if any




Well, for one, your brain will get used to the sound.


----------



## Womaz

kapanak said:


> Well, for one, your brain will get used to the sound.


 

 Think it is already, just plugged my 701s in and I doubt I ever will again


----------



## kapanak

Let's all raise our glasses to HD800, the 6 years old headphones that today's stupidly expensive TOTL headphones from different manufacturers have yet to even match, let alone beat in performance and sound quality (no matter how much huddlers and the daily hypetrain would love to convince everybody). Cheers old friend, may you be with us for 20 more years


----------



## Womaz

kapanak said:


> Let's all raise our glasses to HD800, the 6 years old headphones that today's stupidly expensive TOTL headphones from different manufacturers have yet to even match, let alone beat in performance and sound quality (no matter how much huddlers and the daily hypetrain would love to convince everybody). Cheers old friend, may you be with us for 20 more years


 
 The HE1000s arrive tomorrow........it should be interesting.
 I have a Devialet 200 feeding the Taurus amp with the HD800 and I never imagined headphones could sound this good.
 Cant wait for the HE1000s to arrive


----------



## fpsoft1

kapanak said:


> Let's all raise our glasses to HD800, the 6 years old headphones that today's stupidly expensive TOTL headphones from different manufacturers have yet to even match, let alone beat in performance and sound quality (no matter how much huddlers and the daily hypetrain would love to convince everybody). Cheers old friend, may you be with us for 20 more years


 
 Sennheiser Uber Alles. Big thank you to Sennheiser and Axel Grell.


----------



## kapanak

womaz said:


> The HE1000s arrive tomorrow........it should be interesting.
> I have a Devialet 200 feeding the Taurus amp with the HD800 and I never imagined headphones could sound this good.
> Cant wait for the HE1000s to arrive




Don't let the new toy syndrome skew your mind to the truth that is the HD800 is the better headphones of the two. And if you find a single issue with the build quality of the HEK, return it without mercy. Also, watch out with the Taurus and the HEK, I had a friend tear his HEK diaphragm on 85+dB listening with the Taurus.


----------



## Womaz

kapanak said:


> Don't let the new toy syndrome skew your mind to the truth that is the HD800 is the better headphones of the two. And if you find a single issue with the build quality of the HEK, return it without mercy. Also, watch out with the Taurus and the HEK, I had a friend tear his HEK diaphragm on 85+dB listening with the Taurus.


 

 That will not happen as they are both new toys, I just cant keep both of them


----------



## kapanak

womaz said:


> That will not happen as they are both new toys, I just cant keep both of them




Since I have the same amp as you, and own the HD800, I really look forward to your opinion as a newcomer trying both these TOTL headphones side by side.


----------



## xp9433

henkie196 said:


> It's the DAC that can be added to the C375 and C356. I haven't heard the 390DD, but would be surprised if it was worse than the DAC in my amplifier. What do you find poor quality about it?


 
 The DAC itself it OK. It is just the USB input that is below par. There is a USB upgrade available that I am going to get.


----------



## Womaz

kapanak said:


> Since I have the same amp as you, and own the HD800, I really look forward to your opinion as a newcomer trying both these TOTL headphones side by side.


 
 Yes I am now very intrigued to be honest. Right now I am blown away with this massive jump in SQ from the 701s.
 Still feel a few tracks a tad bright in places but yes I am getting used to it. The soundstage is INCREDIBLE I am genuinely taken aback. Will be interesting to see if the HE1000 has this .......it may lose some of the bright treble? Who knows


----------



## Mortalcoil

Funny how I have noticed the K701 being mentioned in many threads lately.  And with no disrespect to anyone who owns them but they have always been considered dry, lifeless, sterile, and horrid since the day they were released.
  
 A horrible example of a headphone, suffering from a real case of "Basssuckedoutofitaphobia" amongst other maladies.
  
 It is no wonder that the 800 sounds like a revelation (as it should) and a breath of fresh air.
  
  
(These are merely mine and perhaps 356,317 other head-fi members opinions no disrespect was intended but if you own the K701....time to step it up a notch)


----------



## Womaz

mortalcoil said:


> Funny how I have noticed the K701 being mentioned in many threads lately.  And with no disrespect to anyone who owns them but they have always been considered dry, lifeless, sterile, and horrid since the day they were released.
> 
> A horrible example of a headphone, suffering from a real case of "Basssuckedoutofitaphobia" amongst other maladies.
> 
> ...




If I sell them shall I PM you


----------



## Mortalcoil

womaz said:


> If I sell them shall I PM you


 
  
  
 You had better ............


----------



## xp9433

mortalcoil said:


> Funny how I have noticed the K701 being mentioned in many threads lately.  And with no disrespect to anyone who owns them but they have always been considered dry, lifeless, sterile, and horrid since the day they were released.
> 
> A horrible example of a headphone, suffering from a real case of "Basssuckedoutofitaphobia" amongst other maladies.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The K701 sounds a lot better with some judicious parametric EQ. Not suggesting it is in HD800 class. But I am sure the perceived HD800 deficiencies (that many listeners react to) can be ameliorated with appropriate EQ also. I see Katz thought the HD800 was a great candidate for EQ in a recent review on Innerfidelity.
 Has anybody here experimented with EQ on HD800 based on actual measurements?


----------



## wahsmoh

I thought that's why people modify the HD800 to overcome the minor deficiencies? I always make time to stop by HD800 rigs when I'm at a Head-fi meet or CanJam and so far the best HD800s I've ever heard have been either modified or are hooked up to some behemoth tube amplifier. Maybe tubes soften the brightness of the HD800? I would bet that some of it has to do with DAC that is connected to it also. DAC w/ treble glare = headphone with the same glare


----------



## Taowolf51

xp9433 said:


> The K701 sounds a lot better with some judicious parametric EQ. Not suggesting it is in HD800 class. But I am sure the perceived HD800 deficiencies (that many listeners react to) can be ameliorated with appropriate EQ also. I see Katz thought the HD800 was a great candidate for EQ in a recent review on Innerfidelity.
> Has anybody here experimented with EQ on HD800 based on actual measurements?


 
  
 My EQ is based on Tyll's measurements of the HD800's. Not ideal, but I'd rather not spend tens of thousands on a good measurement system. I also use the Audiocheck perceptual sine sweep to dial it in even more by ear to make up for personal hearing differences.
  
 I'm not using the Harmon target response as my ideal target, but my ideal isn't too far off and is more based on my personal taste (I don't drop the treble nearly as much as the Harman does, though I do cut the major spikes down a bit like the 6.5k one).
  
 One thing I did take from Katz's work was the slight rise to 1k to add more vocal presence, and it was a surprisingly effective difference. I did find, however, that too much of it led to some shoutyness, so it's a very subtle rise.


----------



## JaZZ

xp9433 said:


> Has anybody here experimented with EQ on HD800 based on actual measurements?


 
  
 I've done a lot of experimenting and ended up with this curve on the octave equalizer of a FiiO X5 II player (feeding a Chord Hugo), based on the Inner Fidelity curves, then adjusted to my ears:
  
 +1.8     –3.6     –4.6     –5.2     –6       –5.4     –3.6     –3.4     –4.2     +0.2     (31.25 Hz to 16 kHz)
  
 Preset for foobar2000 with xnor's 31-band equalizer for download.
  
 Note that my pair is modded. For an unmodded pair I would suggest the follwing curve (as a basis):
  
 +1.8     –3.6     –4.6     –5.2     –6       –5.6     –4     –4.2     –5.2     –1.2


----------



## Ritwik

What do you think the best headphone for classic hard rock(80s style) and 90s grunge in this price range(HD800, LCD 3 etc). Please recommend appropriate amp too.


----------



## ZoNtO

ritwik said:


> What do you think the best headphone for classic hard rock(80s style) and 90s grunge in this price range(HD800, LCD 3 etc). Please recommend appropriate amp too.


 
 Since you're in the HD800 thread, the answer is the HD800. Otherwise, take it to the recommendations forum.


----------



## henkie196

xp9433 said:


> The DAC itself it OK. It is just the USB input that is below par. There is a USB upgrade available that I am going to get.


 

 I've used both the optical and the USB as inputs for the NAD DAC, and thought the USB sounded a bit cleaner, though I doubt I would actually be able to tell them apart if tested blindly.


----------



## azazell86

For rock you can go with Grado, especially if you want to listen while you're outside walking.
Someone said 2 pages ago that the treble of the HD800 will remain piercing high - this is not true - depending on the frequency of use, the treble will subside at a normal level in aprox 2 years....you just need to be patient...the burn-in period takes a really long time. Now, the HD800 by their design have a cold analitical sound - but that's how they are made, but this doesn't mean that the piercing treble remains at the same level as a brand new HD800.

Also, using a more warmer DAC or Amp really makes the HD800 to sound magical.


----------



## Caguioa

Im planning on finally getting these soon, along with ie 800.

how good are hd 800 with a dap?

i plan on getting the new x7 fii0 for musics and use it whenever im on laptop to play audio.
also a goood price for hd 800?
its got good chunk around $1200 on amazon,

how mucch did u guys spend? and how much did u spend on your whole setup?


----------



## Sorrodje

caguioa said:


> Im planning on finally getting these soon, along with ie 800.
> 
> how good are hd 800 with a dap?
> 
> ...


 
  
 You should consider a good dac/amp  that works with Android.  Something like a Geek Out V2 + for example. it competes with a lot of sedentary rig I heard.


----------



## Caguioa

sorrodje said:


> You should consider a good dac/amp  that works with Android.  Something like a Geek Out V2 + for example. it competes with a lot of sedentary rig I heard.




well i have iphone 6 if that matters,


----------



## xp9433

taowolf51 said:


> My EQ is based on Tyll's measurements of the HD800's. Not ideal, but I'd rather not spend tens of thousands on a good measurement system. I also use the Audiocheck perceptual sine sweep to dial it in even more by ear to make up for personal hearing differences.
> 
> One thing I did take from Katz's work was the slight rise to 1k to add more vocal presence, and it was a surprisingly effective difference. I did find, however, that too much of it led to some shoutyness, so it's a very subtle rise.


 
  
 Yes I have used Tyll's measurements as well, and the parametric eq built into Jriver MC 21. Had to find an equalizer simulator on the web to estimate the right frequency and Q. It was a good starting point for adjusting by ear/taste, and results were an definite improvement in SQ and musical enjoyment.


----------



## Sorrodje

caguioa said:


> well i have iphone 6 if that matters,


 
  
 Sorry for you.


----------



## xp9433

jazz said:


> I've done a lot of experimenting and ended up with this curve on the octave equalizer of a FiiO X5 II player (feeding a Chord Hugo), based on the Inner Fidelity curves, then adjusted to my ears:
> 
> +1.8     –3.6     –4.6     –5.2     –6       –5.4     –3.6     –3.4     –4.2     +0.2     (31.25 Hz to 16 kHz)
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks JaZZ
  
 Looks good. I take it you were happier with the final SQ than before EQing?. What were the actual frequencies and filter Q's that go with your EQ dB adjustments? Are the frequencies preset or variable on your 31-band equalizer?
  
 Cheers
 Frank


----------



## Womaz

Ok my apologies if this is all rather basic stuff but as stated previously I am not a headphone guru, that’s why I come on here. This is just what I think
 The HE1000 arrived this morning and they look ok, not a patch on the build quality of the HD800,but it’s the sound that matters.
 So Listening to both in standard mode, the HD800 was much better in my opinion. The HE1000 is definitely not as sharp to my ears but I think it also lost a bit of detail and soundstage on the HD800.
 After a few hours of comparing I was convinced there was no contest. I tried to forget the price difference but to my ears the HD800 were better for me, notice I said better for me.
 Then I tried the Balanced cable and mode with the HE1000 and wow what a difference. At first I thought this might be a volume issue so I adjusted. It was not the HE1000 really come into its own now. It sounds like everything the HD800 has it has also but definitely without the sharpness.
 I would love to try the HD800 with a balanced cable to see if that makes a difference but it only comes supplied with standard.
 Its early days and I will stress these are just my humble opinions. Both of these are absolutely awesome sounding headphones…….. the Balanced output brings the HE1000 right up there with the HD800.
 Time to take a break and listen again later.


----------



## rayfalkner

*chiming in;
  

  
 Headphones such as Grado and HD800 truly gave me an eye opener of how a beautiful recording of a musician's vocal / instruments can truly immortalize the said person, right when he's at his best: doing the music with each of his breath, accents, swallows, soul and all.
  
 *back to lurking around.


----------



## Womaz

Does using the Balanced mode and cable make much difference to the HD800. ?
 On the HE1000 the difference was incredible


----------



## wink

YES


----------



## Womaz

wink said:


> YES


 

 Would you care to elaborate


----------



## wink

In balanced mode you get twice the voltage swing as single ended.
  
 It makes the response faster and more dynamic.     all goodness.


----------



## Womaz

wink said:


> In balanced mode you get twice the voltage swing as single ended.
> 
> It makes the response faster and more dynamic.     all goodness.


 

 I have to decide which one i keep over the next few days. If there is such a huge difference then why does Sennheiser not supply the HD800 with a balanced cable also? Their flagship model and only the standard cable.


----------



## joseph69

womaz said:


> I have to decide which one i keep over the next few days. If there is such a huge difference then why does Sennheiser not supply the HD800 with a balanced cable also? Their flagship model and only the standard cable.


 
 So they can make more money of course...good business move on their part, unfortunately not for those who want to use balanced.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

womaz said:


> Would you care to elaborate


 

 "The balanced mode on the HD800 provides an incredible difference from the single-ended mode.  In the balanced mode, the HD800 is actually balanced, while in the single ended mode, it is not.  Hence the listener hears a balanced sound whilst in the balanced mode.  Both sides weigh equally on the ears, and neck fatigue from trying to compensate from head tilt due to unbalanced headphones becomes a thing of the past. The balanced mode frees the listener to listen to the music rather than support the headphones.
  
 "That will be five cents, please!"


----------



## punit

wink said:


> In balanced mode you get twice the voltage swing as single ended.
> 
> It makes the response faster and more dynamic.     all goodness.


 
 Please correct me if I am wrong, but this depends on the design of the amp (if it is a true balanced design, like Audio GD Master 9 which sounds better in balanced mode or my old Woo WA22). On quite a few amps the balanced output is just there for convenience & sounds the same as SE out (e.g Cavalli Liquid Glass).


----------



## Womaz

punit said:


> Pleaae correct me if I am wrong, but this depends on the design of the amp (if it is a true balanced design). On quite a few amps the balanced output is just there for convenience (e.g Cavalli Liquid Glass).


 

 I have the Auralic Taurus amp and the difference when switching the HE1000 to the balanced mode was huge, a massive improvement. So I am guessing it is a Balanced amp


----------



## shultzee

With the Mjolnir 2 the difference from SE to balanced with HD 800 is pretty substantial IMHO.   Love running balanced.


----------



## kapanak

womaz said:


> I have the Auralic Taurus amp and the difference when switching the HE1000 to the balanced mode was huge, a massive improvement. So I am guessing it is a Balanced amp


 

 Yes, the Auralic Taurus MKII sounds substantially better when run balanced with the HD800. If you find the HD800 to beat the HEK in single ended mode through the Taurus, I recommend you return the HEK, and buy a balanced cable for the HD800.
  
 The reason why Sennheiser did not include a balanced cable with the HD800 was simple: cost.
  
 Simply put, a balanced cable that is worth of the HD800 would have at least cost them $150-$250, and the 4-pin XLR connector wasn't as popular or widespread in 2009 as it is today. Sennheiser offers a balanced version of the stock cable, called the CH 800s, which costs $380 dollars. The HD800 connectors and the XLR connector on that cable alone costs $100 total. The regular single ended cable for the HD800 is $300.
  
 I recommend Norne Audio Draug 2 as a great balanced cable for the HD800. Just be VERY careful when taking out the connectors to the HD800 on your first try, since a lot of people were not careful and scratched their HD800. It becomes easy after that.


----------



## Womaz

kapanak said:


> Yes, the Auralic Taurus MKII sounds substantially better when run balanced with the HD800. If you find the HD800 to beat the HEK in single ended mode through the Taurus, I recommend you return the HEK, and buy a balanced cable for the HD800.
> 
> The reason why Sennheiser did not include a balanced cable with the HD800 was simple: cost.
> 
> ...


 
 is it is simple as that though. Is the increase in the HE1000 performance all down to the balanced cable.If the HD800 has the same increase in performance with a balanced cable then you are right its a no brainer. Trouble is I would love to hear this for myself. I certainly dont want the HD800 to get any brighter. I still feel at times its a little harsh on my ears.
 The HE1000 is a different HP all together in Balanced mode. It has put a cat amongst the pigeons thats for sure. Did not expect that much difference, but like I say i am a novice at this.


----------



## lukeap69

I have not heard that Taurus but on my Rok, the balanced output is superior than single ended so it was a no brainer. I've read Audio-gd Master 9 is the same. So perhaps the Taurus is also...


----------



## JaZZ

xp9433 said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > I've done a lot of experimenting and ended up with this curve on the octave equalizer of a FiiO X5 II player (feeding a Chord Hugo), based on the Inner Fidelity curves, then adjusted to my ears:
> ...


 
  
 Both are graphic equalizers, thus have fixed frequency bands. The FiiO X5 II's has octave steps: 31.25, 62.5, 125, 250, 500 Hz, 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 kHz. The Q factor seems to be close to 1.414, as measurements by a Head-Fi member have shown (with questionable reliability, though). After all the equalizer *sounds* as if the frequency bands work seemlessly together, so I take it that they're effectively 1 octave wide. The xnor EQ ranges from 20 Hz to 20 kHz. I have no idea about the Q factors, but the EQ is the work of an audio expert and designed for audiophile demands. Yes, it's a pity that they're not parametric...
  
 Of course I won't go back to unequalized if I don't have to. But the HD 800 still sounds good even without EQ, just doesn't show its true potential – without the limitations especially at the extremes of the frequency spectrum. I would say the HE1000 benefits even more from equalizing (or in other words: needs it even more) – and from an aftermarket cable with better sonic synergy.


----------



## PleasantSounds

> Originally Posted by *Womaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> is it is simple as that though. Is the increase in the HE1000 performance all down to the balanced cable.If the HD800 has the same increase in performance with a balanced cable then you are right its a no brainer. Trouble is I would love to hear this for myself. I certainly dont want the HD800 to get any brighter. I still feel at times its a little harsh on my ears.
> The HE1000 is a different HP all together in Balanced mode. It has put a cat amongst the pigeons thats for sure. Did not expect that much difference, but like I say i am a novice at this.


 
  
 No, it's not *that* simple. By using balanced cable you are reaching to additional capabilities of your amp, which otherwise are not utilised. The cable itself is just an enabler, but what really makes the difference is the amp.
  
 I have limited experience with Taurus (never heard HD800 single ended on it), but running HD800 balanced with the right amp does make a lot of difference. You can expect more slam and even faster response, and with some amps more bass energy.


----------



## SearchOfSub

why is it that when I use preamp on my chain through speakers it sounds better, but through headphone it sound worse


----------



## whirlwind

I have been listening to this combo all evening so far, the bass slam kicks like a flipping mule...who would have thunk it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Combined with wonderful mids it is a win win combo.
  
 GEC 6080  Power Tubes & ECC31 Driver


----------



## Womaz

Can anyone answer this for me. If I use the Balanced cable and output from my Taurus amp will the treble change much. ? I love the HD800, so much to love but I am definitely finding it a tad bright at times for my taste. If I could calm this a bit it would be great,
 I have read a lot about the 800 over the last few months and I understand that they can be a difficult headphone to get right. But I love so much about them that I m keen to not just dismiss them


----------



## punit

searchofsub said:


> why is it that when I use preamp on my chain through speakers it sounds better, but through headphone it sound worse


 
 Can you please describe your chain with speakers & with Hp's ? Without knowing your chain, I am just taking a guess that you are connecting your pre amp to a head phone amp , so this is 2 stages of pre amplification (as your HP amp already has a pre amp built in), which is generally not recommended. Just connect the DAC directly to the HP amp.


----------



## SearchOfSub

it's running micromega mydac -> Matrix Mstage UPA-1 -> Schiit Valhalla 2 -> cheap logitech 2.0 desktop speakers.

same with headphone minus speakers.


when I run these cheap logitech speakers it sounds better with preamp but with hps, it sounds worse.


----------



## Dadracer

I use my HD 800 in balanced mode through a Taurus and it is the best I have ever heard them. Having said that it depends maybe what balanced cables you are thinking about and also the source you are feeding the Taurus from. I use the Sennheiser balanced cable but got them to try our from my dealer before buying them so I could compare them with the standard unbalanced cable so maybe that's an option for you to try before you buy? 
 I have never found the treble to be unpleasant from the 800s, I tend to think you are hearing very close to what's on the recording for good or not and I prefer that to a warm and fuzzy version.


----------



## Sorrodje

womaz said:


> Can anyone answer this for me. If I use the Balanced cable and output from my Taurus amp will the treble change much. ? I love the HD800, so much to love but I am definitely finding it a tad bright at times for my taste. If I could calm this a bit it would be great,
> I have read a lot about the 800 over the last few months and I understand that they can be a difficult headphone to get right. But I love so much about them that I m keen to not just dismiss them


 
  
 Don't think the treble will change that much but better amplification will probably improve HD800 bass response then the overall balance can improve as well. 
  
 btw , if you really love your HD800, I strongly encourage you to try some of the best rig for that headphone and see if yours competes. UK meets would probably help.  EQ and light mods are very good options as well .


----------



## Womaz

sorrodje said:


> Don't think the treble will change that much but better amplification will probably improve HD800 bass response then the overall balance can improve as well.
> 
> btw , if you really love your HD800, I strongly encourage you to try some of the best rig for that headphone and see if yours competes. UK meets would probably help.  EQ and light mods are very good options as well .


 

 Thanks for your input again. I have just bought the Taurus amp so wont be changing that . I felt I had to get a better amp to appreciate the new HPs I wanted to demo.
 The bright treble will probably be the game changer for me , which is a bloody shame bearing in mind the price difference.
 Today is another day of listening though and .................I will see how it goes.


----------



## Womaz

OK an update for anyone interested.
 I feel as if the HE1000 are just in front now which is a shame considering they are double the outlay 
 I do feel though that I may not be comparing like with like as I am using Balanced mode with the HE1000 and standard with the HD800, but these are demo sets so i cant change that and I have to make my decision based on what I have in front of me.
 I prefer the look, build and fit of the HD800, so so comfortable, and a soundstage and detail that I just didnt think was possible from a headphone set up. But I still find them a tad bright. I think if I was a classical music listened the HD800 would be awesome.
 For me right now the HE1000 are the more enjoyable listen, they seem to have everything the HD800 has but without the brightness. They probably do lose a bit of soundstage and detail to my ears but not enough to make a huge difference.  On the HD800 some female vocals just have a hiss to them if that makes sense o
 I feel that the HE1000 may be a bit of a better all rounder .....for me anyway. I do listen to a lot of different genres, Classical and Jazz the only two i dont, although some of the female vocalists I listen to could be classed as Jazz maybe.
 Last night Foals, Led Zeppelin, Royal Blood - better on the HE1000
 Lana Del Ray - better on the HD800.
 Although I am 52 I still love Dance music and buy a lot of it Hed Kandi etc, and again it seems more bass on the HE1000.
  
 Today I will do further listening, its fun and I am thoroughly enjoying it........trouble is I have to make a decision soon


----------



## Mortalcoil

womaz said:


> Can anyone answer this for me. If I use the Balanced cable and output from my Taurus amp will the treble change much. ? I love the HD800, so much to love but I am definitely finding it a tad bright at times for my taste. If I could calm this a bit it would be great,
> I have read a lot about the 800 over the last few months and I understand that they can be a difficult headphone to get right. But I love so much about them that I m keen to not just dismiss them


 

 From my understanding Womaz you are in great company with the Taurus, and that the overall "Synergy" (hate using the term Synergy to much but sometimes it just works,know what I mean?) between the two is spot on.
  
 So having said that I suggest you get yourself a nice balanced copper cable from Norne (specifically the Draug 2).  Many have reported better bass bloom and some taming of the shrill (according to Bill Shakespeare).
  
 I am currently waiting on one also.... comes highly recommended as a worthy addition to the 800.
  
 Feel free to read up on the cable in the Norne thread  http://www.head-fi.org/t/606500/norne-audio-was-norse-audio-feedback-impression-thread
  
 Okay after reading your last few posts with greater attention I take it that time is a factor.  I will add this as food for thought however, personally I would not spend 3k ++ on a Hifiman product.
  
 Shoddy QC in many cases not to mention made in China....sorry folks didn't mean to offend but still can not wrap my head around anything Chinese built with a high end price tag.  Japanese built is a different story all together however.


----------



## Womaz

mortalcoil said:


> From my understanding Womaz you are in great company with the Taurus, and that the overall "Synergy" (hate using the term Synergy to much but sometimes it just works,know what I mean?) between the two is spot on.
> 
> So having said that I suggest you get yourself a nice balanced copper cable from Norne (specifically the Draug 2).  Many have reported better bass bloom and some taming of the shrill (according to Bill Shakespeare).
> 
> ...




Thanks for the post. The trouble is I have them on demo so this won't be possible before they have to go back. Also not sure I can get this in the UK.


----------



## Mortalcoil

> Thanks for the post. The trouble is I have them on demo so this won't be possible before they have to go back. Also not sure I can get this in the UK.


 
  
 I added more to my post Womaz (Edited).  He will ship to the U.K as far as I know turnaround time is approx. 4 weeks.
  
 But yes I see your dilemma here with time being a factor.
  
 For what its worth though Womaz my opinion on the HE1K still holds true. Unless the HE1K really knocked your socks off then go for it....forget what I have just mentioned and let your own ears decide.
  
 Just don't look at the "Made In China" sticker.... lol.


----------



## Womaz

mortalcoil said:


> From my understanding Womaz you are in great company with the Taurus, and that the overall "Synergy" (hate using the term Synergy to much but sometimes it just works,know what I mean?) between the two is spot on.
> 
> So having said that I suggest you get yourself a nice balanced copper cable from Norne (specifically the Draug 2).  Many have reported better bass bloom and some taming of the shrill (according to Bill Shakespeare).
> 
> ...




I know exact,y where you are coming from, but I will make decision based solely on SQ and enjoyment I would imagine. The cost will be a factor but not a huge issue as I have the cash for them as saved up especially for my new headphone set up


----------



## Sorrodje

womaz said:


> I do listen to a lot of different genres, *Classical and Jazz the only two i dont,* although some of the female vocalists I listen to could be classed as Jazz maybe.
> Last night Foals, Led Zeppelin, Royal Blood - better on the HE1000
> Lana Del Ray - better on the HD800.
> Although I am 52 I still love Dance music and buy a lot of it Hed Kandi etc, and again it seems more bass on the HE1000.


 
  
  
 Forget the HD800 then . And i'll dare to say , forget the HE1K as well and buy a HE-6 !


----------



## Mortalcoil

womaz said:


> I know exact,y where you are coming from, but I will make decision based solely on SQ and enjoyment I would imagine. The cost will be a factor but not a huge issue as I have the cash for them as saved up especially for my new headphone set up


 
  
  Fair enough....good luck in whatever you decide.


----------



## Womaz

sorrodje said:


> Forget the HD800 then . And i'll dare to say , forget the HE1K as well and buy a HE-6 !




Are you seriou? Do you think they are both more suited to those particular genres?
I will chose one or the other though as just don't have time to do this process again. I considered the HE6 but didn't like the connectors .......loose and troublesome I would imagine


----------



## Mortalcoil

sorrodje said:


> Forget the HD800 then . And i'll dare to say , forget the HE1K as well and buy a HE-6 !


 
  
  
 Hey that's unfair........cheater !


----------



## fuzzybaffy

Why not just buy both the HE-1000 and the HD-800? You seem to be able to afford it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 In all seriousness, though, it seems you're more confident in/would be more comfortable with buying the HE-1000, so I would get the HE-1000. The balanced cables for the HD-800 might tame those highs, but you don't really know for sure, so you might as well go for what you know right now. 
  
 And then later, if the HD-800 still interests you, you can buy the HD-800 with the balanced cables later.


----------



## Womaz

fuzzybaffy said:


> Why not just buy both the HE-1000 and the HD-800? You seem to be able to afford it. :tongue_smile:
> 
> In all seriousness, though, it seems you're more confident in/would be more comfortable with buying the HE-1000, so I would get the HE-1000. The balanced cables for the HD-800 might tame those highs, but you don't really know for sure, so you might as well go for what you know right now.
> 
> And then later, if the HD-800 still interests you, you can buy the HD-800 with the balanced cables later.




If money was no object I would do just that but I could never justify two pairs of high end headphones ........wish I could afford it though  
I saved up for s little while to improve my HP rig and tHe Taurus has been bought but it's not a bottomless pit


----------



## pearljam50000

No one on the planet needs more than a pair of HD800 to be set for life, audio wise.


----------



## wink

^ This
 But, it's still good to have other headphones.
  
 But definitely NOT other headphones and NO HD800.


----------



## Sorrodje

womaz said:


> Are you seriou? Do you think they are both more suited to those particular genres?
> I will chose one or the other though as just don't have time to do this process again. I considered the HE6 but didn't like the connectors .......loose and troublesome I would imagine


 
  
 I'm serious 
  
 IMO , the HD800 is a stellar headphone especially for Classical and Instrumental contemporary Jazz where Stellar recordings are fortunately frequent.  If you don't listen to those genre, still IMHO , there're better choice,  HE1K is maybe one but I'm not fan of this Hifiman. I'd probably pick a HE-6 any day . For Electronic music , Rock and Metal , HE-6 bass extension and Slam , mids , speed , clarity, viscerality do wonders . IMO , it lacks the subtleties a HD800 is capable but as much as I love Royal Blood music , it does not need HD800 technicalities. Even more, I think  a HD800 sounds too intellectual for that Kind of music if that makes sense for you. YMMV as usual.   
  
 Considering you probably own a good speaker amp, you could use the HE-6 With it directly and get rid of the Taurus.  my 2 cents.


----------



## Womaz

sorrodje said:


> I'm serious
> 
> IMO , the HD800 is a stellar headphone especially for Classical and Instrumental contemporary Jazz where Stellar recordings are fortunately frequent.  If you don't listen to those genre, still IMHO , there're better choice,  HE1K is maybe one but I'm not fan of this Hifiman. I'd probably pick a HE-6 any day . For Electronic music , Rock and Metal , HE-6 bass extension and Slam , mids , speed , clarity, viscerality do wonders . IMO , it lacks the subtleties a HD800 is capable but as much as I love Royal Blood music , it does not need HD800 technicalities. Even more, I think  a HD800 sounds too intellectual for that Kind of music if that makes sense for you. YMMV as usual.
> 
> Considering you probably own a good speaker amp, you could use the HE-6 With it directly and get rid of the Taurus.  my 2 cents.


 

 My amp is the Devialet 200. Thank you for your post its helpful as I am starting to think as much as I love the detail and soundstage of the HD800 i may need  more of an all rounder. I think so far from what I have heard the HEK will do that. I will chose between the two of them as I have been procastinating for months. Finally got hold of them and that will be it


----------



## fuzzybaffy

womaz said:


> If money was no object I would do just that but I could never justify two pairs of high end headphones ........wish I could afford it though
> I saved up for s little while to improve my HP rig and tHe Taurus has been bought but it's not a bottomless pit


 
  
 Right... I wasn't saying you should buy both. I was saying you should buy the one that you're confident in buying now, and if the other headphone still interests you, you can buy the other once you've saved up money in the future.


----------



## Womaz

fuzzybaffy said:


> Right... I wasn't saying you should buy both. I was saying you should buy the one that you're confident in buying now, and if the other headphone still interests you, you can buy the other once you've saved up money in the future.


 
  
 Your first sentence said buy both 
 Anyway I will chose the best one after I have had them all weekend.......thanks for the input though


----------



## fuzzybaffy

I thought the "
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





" and the "In all seriousness, though..." in the sentence right after it would have made it clear I was just joking. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Best of luck in your purchase.


----------



## Womaz

fuzzybaffy said:


> I thought the "
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Some people on here have an amazing and vast collection of headphones, so a lot of people do buy many pairs of headphones. I will be a one headphone man, I was going to keep my Q701s until I heard the HD800s and then i knew they would just gather dust.
 Thanks again


----------



## fuzzybaffy

I guess you don't have any reading comprehension at all, because if you read the entirety of my first post regarding your situation, you'd know I wasn't suggesting you to buy both.


----------



## Womaz

fuzzybaffy said:


> I guess you don't have any reading comprehension at all, because if you read the entirety of my first post regarding your situation, you'd know I wasn't suggesting you to buy both.


 

 I am reading  a headphone forum whist doing numerous other things......not trying to get a degree In English


----------



## fuzzybaffy

So you're still suggesting that I suggested you to buy both? Absolutely unreal. Believe what you want.


----------



## Womaz

fuzzybaffy said:


> So you're still suggesting that I suggested you to buy both? Absolutely unreal. Believe what you want.




Not at all, just banter for banter. All done now


----------



## kapanak

Womaz, dealers around you have the CH 800S, so does Amazon UK. It's the only balanced HD800 cable that you can probably get within the week, so I highly recommend you do so, and listen on the Taurus with it. I'm sure you will make the best decision.


----------



## Womaz

kapanak said:


> Womaz, dealers around you have the CH 800S, so does Amazon UK. It's the only balanced HD800 cable that you can probably get within the week, so I highly recommend you do so, and listen on the Taurus with it. I'm sure you will make the best decision.


 
 My dealer doesnt have it in stock, and I will not be ordering one myself am afraid. I am not sure it would tone the treble down anyway. Indications are it wont.
 Its not a done deal yet as still have a couple more days before I have to decide.
 However I had the HE1000 on for an hour before and then switched to the HD800 and the treble brightness was more evident than ever. I might be able to live with it, as I actually prefer the HD800 for a lot of other aspects......but sound quality is the most important factor


----------



## TomNC

@Womaz
  
   I have compared driving HD800 (with Draug 2 cable) through balanced vs single-ended mode. While the balanced input improves overall performance, it does not do much to mitigate the brightness. But I can use the simple EQ buttons on my McIntosh MC4100 receiver to have the brightness in control and enhance bass as well. Eventually I plan to do the Anax mods on my HD800.
  
  Based on your descriptions and music preferences, it seems the HEK might be a safer choice for you. Rumor and reasonable expectation have that Sennheiser may release an HD800 replacement within coming months. Then you can add the new model, or used HD800 at a discount. 
  
   I listened to HD800 driven by Taurus MKii at a meet. The brightness in trebles was the only major concern to me for this pairing. Otherwise, it is a wonderful match.
  
   Good luck with your purchase.


----------



## Womaz

tomnc said:


> @Womaz
> 
> 
> I have compared driving HD800 (with Draug 2 cable) through balanced vs single-ended mode. While the balanced input improves overall performance, it does not do much to mitigate the brightness. But I can use the simple EQ buttons on my McIntosh MC4100 receiver to have the brightness in control and enhance bass as well. Eventually I plan to do the Anax mods on my HD800.
> ...




Great post thanks , yes I assumed the balanced. Use would not help with the treble being a tad bright


----------



## JaZZ

womaz said:


> ...yes I assumed the balanced use would not help with the treble being a tad bright...


 
  
 ...but lining all bare surfaces within the housings definitely will. And since the omitted treble content exclusively consists of reflections, you will gain accuracy instead. Worth considering, although not realizable right now in your situation. Equalizing is another option. That's not to say the HE1000 would be a worse choice, though – I like it just as much.


----------



## Womaz

jazz said:


> ...but lining all bare surfaces within the housings definitely will. And since the omitted treble content exclusively consists of reflections, you will gain accuracy instead. Worth considering, although not realizable right now in your situation. Equalizing is another option. That's not to say the HE1000 would be a worse choice, though – I like it just as much.




Yes you raise some good points. I am the type who doesn't do mods or tweak. I just buy and then try and enjoy. Both are amazing headphones


----------



## kapanak

womaz said:


> Yes you raise some good points. I am the type who doesn't do mods or tweak. I just buy and then try and enjoy. Both are amazing headphones


 

 One should never write-off EQ. I can understand not wanting to perform mods, but to not do any small adjustments to the EQ to make it more pleasurable to your ears is just not right.


----------



## Womaz

kapanak said:


> One should never right off EQ. I can understand not wanting to perform mods, but to not do any small adjustments to the EQ to make it more pleasurable to your ears is just not right.




I use JRiver so might investigate this


----------



## Taowolf51

womaz said:


> Yes you raise some good points. I am the type who doesn't do mods or tweak. I just buy and then try and enjoy. Both are amazing headphones


 
  
 If you do decide to try it, though, do know it's super easy and easily reversible.
  
 But I do agree with those telling you to EQ, it's like cheating at high-end audio, and the HD800 EQ's well.


----------



## kapanak

womaz said:


> I use JRiver so might investigate this


 

 Very good idea. May I recommend you EQ down the treble spots you find problematic using a track you are intimately familiar with. Avoid EQing up more than 2-3db (maybe a bit more on the bass), but you're welcome to EQ down as much as 8-10db. HD800's driver is quite a wonder, it can take the EQ like a boss and you might just come out REALLY enjoying the sound signature without the winching at treble glares (which happen rarely with some tracks).
  
 I do not use JRiver (which as a better EQ), but with xnor's graphic equalizer (https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_dsp_xgeq) for foobar2000, over the past nine months I have arrived at the EQ below to sound the most pleasing to my ears, with no treble glares (on my HD800 and my pair of ears lol), while still retaining all of HD800's precision and sound signature 
  

  
 PS: Some people prefer more of a rise towards 2.5Khz, so perhaps add 1.0db to the 2Khz on my EQ to make it even better.


----------



## JaZZ

Strongly resembles my curve (for a modded pair):


----------



## Womaz

The dedication you guys have is admirable to say the least


----------



## Taowolf51

kapanak said:


> Avoid EQing up more than 2-3db (maybe a bit more on the bass), but you're welcome to EQ down as much as 8-10db. HD800's driver is quite a wonder, it can take the EQ like a boss and you might just come out REALLY enjoying the sound signature without the winching at treble glares (which happen rarely with some tracks).


 
  
 I'd go as far as to say don't EQ up at all, just EQ down and use volume control to make up for the volume loss. That will make sure you're not clipping anything. Or, if you have an EQ with a preamp function, EQ up as you need, and subtract the same number of db (or one more) as the biggest change in the EQ. So for instance, if the largest boost is 6db, make your preamp -6 or -7db.
  


kapanak said:


>


 


jazz said:


> Strongly resembles my curve (for a modded pair):


 
  
 My curve is pretty similar to both, I made a recent change to include a slight rise from 200Hz to 1kHz as was discussed in Tyll's experiment with Katz. It was just a 1.5db 0.3Q boost, but the change made a pretty surprising difference to vocal presence.


----------



## MickeyVee

The last 10 or so pages have been interesting.  Balanced. EQ and the HE1K. Here are some of my thoughts. YMMV.
  
 The HD800 must be the most system dependant headphone that I know of.  Fortunately, I have found the setup that suites me the best.  No EQ. No balanced cable. Treble is smooth, extended with great detail and NO harshness.  Bass is deep, detailed and tight. Mids are to die for. For me, it works from everything from Sinatra to Deamou5.
  
 On to the HE1K: I had the chance to audition the HE1K along with my HD800 on my Macintosh system. Jerg contrasts and compares them quite well in this short post: post #8
 If money was not a factor, I would have both.  If the HD800 and HE1K were of equal price, I would lean towards the HE1K.  Until anyone can meet or surpass the HD800 and add a little more of a fun factor (HE1K comes close) in the same price range, I may be tempted.  But for now, the HD800 / Macintosh still rules in my books.


----------



## Womaz

mickeyvee said:


> The last 10 or so pages have been interesting.  Balanced. EQ and the HE1K. Here are some of my thoughts. YMMV.
> 
> The HD800 must be the most system dependant headphone that I know of.  Fortunately, I have found the setup that suites me the best.  No EQ. No balanced cable. Treble is smooth, extended with great detail and NO harshness.  Bass is deep, detailed and tight. Mids are to die for. For me, it works from everything from Sinatra to Deamou5.
> 
> ...




I have just said something very similar on my thread "starting from scratch" 
I admire some of the dedication on here but headphones are not my hobby, music is and I really don't want to be messing around with mods etc ..... I may try the EQ though but I prefer to just buy out of the box. Same price and HE1000 a no brainer for me although the clarity of the HD800 is well ahead IMO. The build and the looks also , but ultimately it's about the music and right now the HE1000 seems to be more of an all rounder for me , everything sounds good and nothing sounds bad


----------



## nephilim32

mickeyvee said:


> The last 10 or so pages have been interesting.  Balanced. EQ and the HE1K. Here are some of my thoughts. YMMV.
> 
> The HD800 must be the most system dependant headphone that I know of.  Fortunately, I have found the setup that suites me the best.  No EQ. No balanced cable. Treble is smooth, extended with great detail and NO harshness.  Bass is deep, detailed and tight. Mids are to die for. For me, it works from everything from Sinatra to Deamou5.
> 
> ...




+1 ✌️


----------



## kapanak

Given the similarity between EQ patterns, measurements of HD800 on a wife number of measurement systems, and the Sennheiser provided frequency response charts, one thing I'm sure we can all agree on is that Sennheiser males the HD800 nice and consistent. Can't say the same about the other two big high-end headphones makers, Audeze and Hifiman


----------



## ubs28

kapanak said:


> One should never right off EQ. I can understand not wanting to perform mods, but to not do any small adjustments to the EQ to make it more pleasurable to your ears is just not right.


 

 Why not? You realise all the music you listen to is heavily altered with EQ and other digital processes? Applying EQ is perfectly right and much better than buying a tube amplifier which distorts the signal.


----------



## kapanak

ubs28 said:


> Why not? You realise all the music you listen to is heavily altered with EQ and other digital processes? Applying EQ is perfectly right and much better than buying a tube amplifier which distorts the signal.


 

 I think you need to read what I said again. I was advocating using EQ. I understand there was a spelling mistake, meant to say write*-off. And of course the double and triple negatives didn't help


----------



## Womaz

My girlfriend bloody loves me right now.....experimenting with JRivers EQ


----------



## leng jai

I should preface this by saying I'm using a less than ideal setup to drive the HD800s - a DAC Magic and a Woo Audio 2 on stock tubes.
  

  
 I'm loving the bass on the HD800s, definitely not lacking for my tastes despite all the complaints I've read. Then again it's similar in quantity to the T1 and people say that's somehow bass light as well. The beginning of Angel by Massive Attack still sounds like a sledgehammer on your head. It has more depth and control in the low end than the T1s, but I'd say the Beyer pair has more of the mid bass hump. The HD800s are the first full size cans I've used that have been finicky about head positioning due to the large ear cups. It's entirely possible to get a poor seal, losing some bass and getting that dreaded "thin" sound. 
  
 Where the HD800s really pull ahead is in instrument separation on more complex tracks. It's more discerning and layered than the T1s - the Uncharted 3 OST sounds absolutely sick on these things. I'm actually finding the soundstage similar on both cans but I have a feeling it's due to the limitations of my DAC here. Now the treble - I'm definitely having more issues with excess brightness and sibilance with these than I ever did with the T1. The Sennheisers seem to get disproportionately brighter at higher volumes. Lana Del Rey's Honeymoon is pretty much unlistenable until you turn the volume down to the point where it loses dynamics. Might have to try the Anax mod at some stage.
  
 That leads me to the next point (which is well documented by everyone else) - the HD800s makes you realise that the mastering quality most of your collection is garbage. The T1s worked pretty well with about 80% of library, while with he HD800s I'd say that close too half of my collections sounds awful on it. Well mastered acoustic tracks absolutely sing on the HD800s while a lot of modern tracks sound atrocious - lucky I don't listen to Metal. 
  
 More thoughts to come later I guess.


----------



## lovethatsound

leng jai said:


> I should preface this by saying I'm using a less than ideal setup to drive the HD800s - a DAC Magic and a Woo Audio 2 on stock tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I must say i listen 2 loads of different sorts of music with my hd800s,including metal,and don't have any such problems with the hd800s.Im using a chord QBD76 dac 2 a hdvd800 amp,All balance,and it sounds out of this world.


----------



## Takeanidea

lovethatsound said:


> I must say i listen 2 loads of different sorts of music with my hd800s,including metal,and don't have any such problems with the hd800s.Im using a chord QBD76 dac 2 a hdvd800 amp,All balance,and it sounds out of this world.



 



Yes I agree; the comments regarding the T1 and the HD800 are not what my ears experienced at all. I have a DacMagic Plus Dac and a Fidelity Audio HPA200SE head amp. The T1 sounded metallic in it's presentation compared to the wonders produced by the HD800. 
The Anax Mod might be in order for those who struggle with hot treble


----------



## maxedfx

I'm so tempted to pick up the liquid crimson and a Gumby for my HD 800!
Thoughts guys??


----------



## drez

leng jai said:


> I should preface this by saying I'm using a less than ideal setup to drive the HD800s - a DAC Magic and a Woo Audio 2 on stock tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you like everything apart from the brightness, I highly recommend the Anax Mod.  You can always remove it later if you feel they have become too warm.  It may however leave some adhesive residue which can take time and care to remove though.  EQ might also be worth a shot as that is completely reversible...
  
 With my current rig and version of Anax 2.0 mod, very little sounds awful - and I say that in all honesty.  I may have been lucky in going with the gear I selected, it's neutral but not aggressive.  I have a hard time listening to stock HD 800 with neutral or bright gear.  Painful.  I think modified HD 800 is about as bright as I want to go.  My ears are very sensitive to reflections even in real life, so fixing the 6k resonance is a must for me.
  
 OTOH compression artifacts, lack of dynamic range and clipping all show super obviously with HD 800, but with mod and neutral gear this is not made any worse, and HD 800 can make the most of what little dynamics there is.
  
 The other downside is that HD 800 are so revealing they will let you know what can be improved in your system.  For me they just kept pushing me to upgrade gear until I hit a point where I was happy and nothing bad really stood out.  This was bad for my wallet.


----------



## rawrster

drez said:


> If you like everything apart from the brightness, I highly recommend the Anax Mod.  You can always remove it later if you feel they have become too warm.  It may however leave some adhesive residue which can take time and care to remove though.  EQ might also be worth a shot as that is completely reversible...
> 
> With my current rig and version of Anax 2.0 mod, very little sounds awful - and I say that in all honesty.  I may have been lucky in going with the gear I selected, it's neutral but not aggressive.  I have a hard time listening to stock HD 800 with neutral or bright gear.  Painful.  I think modified HD 800 is about as bright as I want to go.  My ears are very sensitive to reflections even in real life, so fixing the 6k resonance is a must for me.
> 
> ...


 
  
 My first setup with the HD800 a few years ago was pretty bad and luckily this time around it isn't a problem. I bought my amp without hearing it first (although later I found out there are stores near me that I can demo it) and it worked out. I find stock HD800 to be pretty good without needing any modifications however many do like the various mods. It would be fun to try it out but I'm too lazy and I like it enough where I don't care if there's any improvement at this time.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

womaz said:


> My girlfriend bloody loves me right now.....experimenting with JRivers EQ




Welcome to the Inner Sanctum of Planet Geek.....My Wife rolls in laughter seeing me in my headphones and if I dare show her pictures from our Meets. Oh well, surely they like us sensitive, musical kinda guys....


----------



## Thenewguy007

leng jai said:


> Now the treble - I'm definitely having more issues with excess brightness and sibilance with these than I ever did with the T1.


 
  
 Was th opposite for me.
 The sibilance was unbearable with the T1 & quite listenable on the HD800.
  
 I couldn't listen to any cymbals on the T1 without ripping the headphones off my head.


----------



## Womaz

wildcatsare1 said:


> Welcome to the Inner Sanctum of Planet Geek.....My Wife rolls in laughter seeing me in my headphones and if I dare show her pictures from our Meets. Oh well, surely they like us sensitive, musical kinda guys....


 

 Definitely getting to that planet


----------



## leng jai

I'm just as surprised as you guys. I thought for sure that the T1 would be brighter but it's not to me. Maybe it has something to do with my setup? Anax mod looks like an option but I don't particularly fancy doing physical mods to such an expensive headphone.
  
 Anyone else have Lana Del Rey's new record? It's absolutely unlistenable on my setup unless I put the volume way down.


----------



## johnjen

I have tried various different methods and types of EQ.

The best, so far is the Sonicworks ref 3.

And once I added the very bottom back in, the results are most gratifying.

This brings the 800's to a whole new level.

JJ


----------



## BobFiggins

Some of you may consider me a monster, but I played with my HD 800 today, and had some fun:
  

  
  
 More:
 http://imgur.com/a/pajtL
  
 Did the same with the HD 700 a while back:
 http://imgur.com/a/vuLN0


----------



## gnomen

HD800 users: what is your choice for a travelling headphone -- do you take your 800s on the road or have you found a closed-back headphone with a complementary sound style?
  
 I could ask this question in a new thread or review 'travelling headphones' topics elsewhere, but since this thread is for HD800 users -- like me -- it seems the best place to start.
  
 What have you found that works alongside your 800s?
  
 Thanks


----------



## raybone0566

bobfiggins said:


> Some of you may consider me a monster, but I played with my HD 800 today, and had some fun:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bob, is just the liner removed? Hard to actually see what's been done.


----------



## BobFiggins

raybone0566 said:


> Bob, is just the liner removed? Hard to actually see what's been done.


 
  
 Yeah, the liner was removed for the pictures.


----------



## Dadracer

2 choices. I take HD700s if I am going to take my ifi audio iDSD with me and be in a hotel for some days. Alternatively if I am travelling light then Bose QC25 to stop as much external noise. They maybe are not the best on SQ but they are the best for overcoming aircraft/train/people noise.


----------



## gnomen

Thanks Dadracer.  My only concern is that the HD700 is still open backed so could not be used anywhere there are others around.
  
 Agree the Bose are best at noise cancelling -- but not in the same league for SQ, alas.
  
 Re transporting the headphones, I did quite a search on possible carrying cases for the HD800s but only found some pretty inadequate no-name acrylic cases.  One respondent on this forum said he uses his camera bag, which seems like a good idea and about the right dimensions, although I have yet to try it.


----------



## Womaz

gnomen said:


> HD800 users: what is your choice for a travelling headphone -- do you take your 800s on the road or have you found a closed-back headphone with a complementary sound style?
> 
> I could ask this question in a new thread or review 'travelling headphones' topics elsewhere, but since this thread is for HD800 users -- like me -- it seems the best place to start.
> 
> ...


 

 I dont have a quality pair for travel as I do so little, but a pal of mine who has the 800 like the Momentum 2


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I would think the Momentum2 would be excellent. I KNOW that they Beyerdynamic T 5 p is excellent, and its recent upgrad the AK T 5 p is even better when used with an AK music player. Both are closed headphones.


----------



## Dadracer

Cheers Gnomen. I only use the 700s if I'm in my hotel room or somewhere I can relax and not disturb others which was why they were my pick as being as close as I could get to 800s but at much less money and easier to pack into a trolley case. I tried also the PSB 4MU which are really good on sound but not as good at noise cancelling, and a bit bulky to carry in a tablet briefcase which is why I went with the Bose. Also they are wonderfully comfortable on a long haul flight or train journey. I did try the older version Momentums and didn't like the SQ or the comfort as much as I had hoped so despite my strong alliance to Sennheiser it was a no!


----------



## rawrster

gnomen said:


> HD800 users: what is your choice for a travelling headphone -- do you take your 800s on the road or have you found a closed-back headphone with a complementary sound style?
> 
> I could ask this question in a new thread or review 'travelling headphones' topics elsewhere, but since this thread is for HD800 users -- like me -- it seems the best place to start.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I wouldn't ever take the HD800 outside of my house since it's a hassle to use them as a traveling headphone. I used the Shure SE846 when I am not at home. It sounds good most of the time and isolates well which is good enough for my commute. I could probably do with less but I got them at a discount so not too bad. Of course it doesn't sound like the HD800. If I wanted something similar I would get the UERM again but that's a custom and I no longer have a need for custom iem's. I'm not really a fan of portable headphones so never tried most of them.


----------



## DavidA

gnomen said:


> HD800 users: what is your choice for a travelling headphone -- do you take your 800s on the road or have you found a closed-back headphone with a complementary sound style?
> 
> I could ask this question in a new thread or review 'travelling headphones' topics elsewhere, but since this thread is for HD800 users -- like me -- it seems the best place to start.
> 
> ...


 

 QC25 if only for use on the plane, MDR-7506 & Momentum on-ear if for plane and hotel use.
 For just outside home like walking the dog my GF uses HD-700 since she wants to be able to be aware of her surroundings and not be totally isolated.


----------



## bearFNF

gnomen said:


> HD800 users: what is your choice for a travelling headphone -- do you take your 800s on the road or have you found a closed-back headphone with a complementary sound style?
> 
> I could ask this question in a new thread or review 'travelling headphones' topics elsewhere, but since this thread is for HD800 users -- like me -- it seems the best place to start.
> 
> ...


 
 I use the JH Roxannes while in transit. They work great on the plane and while on layovers.


----------



## shultzee

gnomen said:


> HD800 users: what is your choice for a travelling headphone -- do you take your 800s on the road or have you found a closed-back headphone with a complementary sound style?
> 
> I could ask this question in a new thread or review 'travelling headphones' topics elsewhere, but since this thread is for HD800 users -- like me -- it seems the best place to start.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 CIEMS for me.  1964 v6 S  .....   Very good sound quality, great isolation, and easy to drive.


----------



## longbowbbs

gnomen said:


> HD800 users: what is your choice for a travelling headphone -- do you take your 800s on the road or have you found a closed-back headphone with a complementary sound style?
> 
> I could ask this question in a new thread or review 'travelling headphones' topics elsewhere, but since this thread is for HD800 users -- like me -- it seems the best place to start.
> 
> ...


 
 Noble Audio K10 CIEM's are a great compliment.


----------



## Sorrodje

For those who don't want to sell a kidney for CIEMs, My Custom Art Music 2 are fairly priced, works well for absolutely everything including orchestral music and impress (Resolution and soundstage ) me each day I use them.  I'm not experienced in Hi End IEMs though so you can probably have better but probably for subtantialy more than 350€


----------



## Wildcatsare1

gnomen said:


> HD800 users: what is your choice for a travelling headphone -- do you take your 800s on the road or have you found a closed-back headphone with a complementary sound style?
> 
> I could ask this question in a new thread or review 'travelling headphones' topics elsewhere, but since this thread is for HD800 users -- like me -- it seems the best place to start.
> 
> ...




My Alclair RSMs with Norne Therium silver cable is the closest I have heard to the HD800 for portable use. Really awsome earphones!


----------



## RagnarAyn

For travel I'm a fan of deep insertion iems. Currently Etys HF5 with triple flange. Blocks noise yet takes almost no space, essential for my business travel. And not so expensive that I worry much about leaving them in my bag all the time.


----------



## Taowolf51

I'll be the pleb here and say my on-the-go pair is a pair of Carbo Tenores. I've snubbed my nose at a lot of nice headphones and IEMs, including 1964 V8's, but the Carbo Tenores make me happy somehow. They also have the benefit of being cheap and replaceable which is good for when the unexpected happens out there.
  
 If I had a bunch of money to burn on a portable set, I'd look long and hard at the Oppo PM3's. I'd like to get a pair of nice IEM's, but I've never had a good experience with the higher end IEM's, they've always been disappointing sound-wise.
  
  


gnomen said:


> Re transporting the headphones, I did quite a search on possible carrying cases for the HD800s but only found some pretty inadequate no-name acrylic cases.  One respondent on this forum said he uses his camera bag, which seems like a good idea and about the right dimensions, although I have yet to try it.


 
  
 Take a look at some pelican cases, they'd be a great carrying case for the HD800's. I believe there's a specific model people here recommended.


----------



## lilbthebasedgod

gnomen said:


> HD800 users: what is your choice for a travelling headphone -- do you take your 800s on the road or have you found a closed-back headphone with a complementary sound style?
> 
> I could ask this question in a new thread or review 'travelling headphones' topics elsewhere, but since this thread is for HD800 users -- like me -- it seems the best place to start.
> 
> ...


 
 I know its not as good as others, but the AKG K44 Perception.  Its extremely colored and somewhat slow feeling, but its pretty punchy and durable.  I literally just throw these in my cramped computer case every day and it just werks.  I'm not saying the sound quality is great, but its a pretty fun set of headphones that I wouldn't cry over if I break.  I don't treat portable things well enough to justify a good portable.


----------



## Thenewguy007

gnomen said:


> HD800 users: what is your choice for a travelling headphone -- do you take your 800s on the road or have you found a closed-back headphone with a complementary sound style?


 
  
 The HD800 not only offers zero isolation, making everything you hear be heard by everyone in a 80 foot radius, but you also need extremely large & heavy amplifiers & dedicated DAC's to make the headphones sound good.
  
 It is completely unpractical to take them with you on the road.


----------



## Thenewguy007

bobfiggins said:


> Some of you may consider me a monster, but I played with my HD 800 today, and had some fun:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 How the hell are you powering them?  Batteries?


----------



## kapanak

thenewguy007 said:


> How the hell are you powering them?  Batteries?




He is obviously using the transducer coil wire like a light bulb filament.


----------



## pervysage

Anyone know what kind of wire the stock HD800 cable uses?


----------



## kapanak

pervysage said:


> Anyone know what kind of wire the stock HD800 cable uses?


 
  
 A very good one in my opinion. 
  
 According to Sennheiser: "Specially tuned symmetrical, impedance matching cable with low capacitance. High-quality materials such as oxygen-free copper and gold-plated contacts ensure the highest sound quality. Silver coating of the strains minimizes resistance for sound transmission. Gold-plated contacts. Kevlar coating."


----------



## pervysage

kapanak said:


> A very good one in my opinion.
> 
> According to Sennheiser: "Specially tuned symmetrical, impedance matching cable with low capacitance. High-quality materials such as oxygen-free copper and gold-plated contacts ensure the highest sound quality. Silver coating of the strains minimizes resistance for sound transmission. Gold-plated contacts. Kevlar coating."




Sounds like silver plated copper then?


----------



## kapanak

pervysage said:


> Sounds like silver plated copper then?


 

 Yes, Silver plated OFC Copper cables, each conductor well insulted and isolated from each other. Though the silver does explain maybe about 1% of the brightness (the rest are inherent to the design).


----------



## ruthieandjohn

kapanak said:


> Yes, Silver plated OFC Copper cables, each conductor well insulted and isolated from each other. Though the silver does explain maybe about 1% of the brightness (the rest are inherent to the design).


Ah... So my cable conductors feel "well insulted!" No wonder they are so cantankerous that folks replace them with after-market cables. Maybe we should compliment our cables more. I heard that boron-zinc connectors compliment silver-plated copper quite well (Boron-zinc: "O Cable, your silver-sheathed copper is so virile and powerful!")


----------



## kapanak

ruthieandjohn said:


> Ah... So my cable conductors feel "well insulted!" No wonder they are so cantankerous that folks replace them with after-market cables. Maybe we should compliment our cables more. I heard that boron-zinc connectors compliment silver-plated copper quite well (Boron-zinc: "O Cable, your silver-sheathed copper is so virile and powerful!")


 

 I was typing on my phone, and that's just autocorrect. However, it is funny enough that I shall leave it as is.


----------



## koiloco

kapanak said:


> Yes, Silver plated OFC Copper cables, each conductor well insulted and isolated from each other. Though the silver does explain maybe about 1% of the brightness (the rest are inherent to the design).


 
 You could hear the 1% of the brightness???
  
 Just wowwwwwwwwwwww...


----------



## Thenewguy007

koiloco said:


> You could hear the 1% of the brightness???
> 
> Just wowwwwwwwwwwww...


 

 I don't know about 1%.
 The Norne Draug 2 is pure copper as well & people say it makes a huge difference in added bass & depth over the stock cables.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thenewguy007 said:


> I don't know about 1%.
> The Norne Draug 2 is pure copper as well & people say it makes a huge difference in added bass & depth over the stock cables.




The Draug 2 is 100% OFC Copper, a lot of it, and it makes a huge (positive) difference.


----------



## vnmslsrbms

If you can hear it, great.  If not, then you save money that you can spend on other headphones.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

vnmslsrbms said:


> If you can hear it, great.  If not, then you save money that you can spend on other headphones.




This is true, or tubes, better amps, etc., this indeed a very subjective past time.


----------



## vnmslsrbms

wildcatsare1 said:


> This is true, or tubes, better amps, etc., this indeed a very subjective past time.


 
 like watches and cars, this is like jewelry for men.  Seriously, I live in Hong Kong where lots of people use headphones due to the mass transit use and time spent walking around, and I check out what people are using like my wife checks out jewelry/shoes on women.


----------



## pumpe19

Hey guys.

 My “story” started 10 days ago, when I purchased a HD-800 plus a Lehmann Linear Audio amp. As I detailed in the Introduction sub forum (http://www.head-fi.org/t/782792/musical-fidelity-mx-dac-lehmann-linear-audio-sennheiser-hd-800). Over the days, I made some changes…

 Fast-forward to today. I actually am quite happy with the following setup:
 - HD800
 - Muscial Fidelity MX DAC
 - Musical Fidelity MX HPA

 For my ears, this was quite a step up in performance, even addressed (to an extend) my two main issues with the HD800: a little bit too harsh treble, and a bit analytic, lacking some warmth overall. No deal breakers, but little irritations 

 Meanwhile I even tested the LCD-X with the Marantz HD DAC1. After only half an hour with that combo I really started missing my HD800 setup. Sure, the LCDs are warm, also quite detailed, great bass, in your face spectacular. However, they seemed not nearly as “confident” as the HD800. That is how I would describe the Sennheisers. I never get the feeling they hide anything, they just play. And that, in its own way, is quite spectacular, to me at least.

 Well that is where I am now. Got a setup I like, but still got this nagging, that there might be something better out there (in this price range: dac+amp 1000EUR-2000EUR). Something that might take the edge of the HD800s sometimes harsh treble and adds a little bit more body and warmth. Not as thick and “confined” as the LCD-X, but just a little bit smoother,…
 Does anyone of you guys have any experience with aforementioned setup? How does it compare to something like the HDVD800 for example?


 Maybe I should just shake of all this nagging uncertainty and just take what I like right now.
 If only it were so simple.


 Cherrs,
 Pumpe19


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I am totally biased, but I love my Taurus Mk. 2 and R2R, Monarchy M22B's tonality and musicality with my HD800s.


----------



## vnmslsrbms

I also love my Taurus MKii, paired with my Vega DAC.  Been a long while since I've been happy with my setup.  I can finally just listen and be happy.  Until I hear the next better setup of course LOL.


----------



## pumpe19

Seem to be great setups you guys got there. Although a little bit out of my price range 
 "_I can finally just listen and be happy_" And that is what it's all about!


----------



## BobFiggins

thenewguy007 said:


> How the hell are you powering them?  Batteries?


 
  
 Just a flashlight behind them, and the liner removed. It was just to make some creative images, these aren't modded to be like this permanently.


----------



## JaZZ

To my ears the stock cable sounds really good (I prefer it to the Silver Dragon), it just hasn't the ideal synergy with the unmodified and unequalized headphone.


----------



## ericfarrell85

Sometimes you just don't realize what you're missing until the moment you decide to make a change. I've been using Sophia 6SL7's for a while (ECBA), but unearthed some RCA VT-231's from a neglected closet. What a terrific pairing! The very lush and romantic, low-end oriented character is precisely what the 800 wanted. Great synergy! Wave goodbye to splashy, strident treble. I'll try some Ken Rad and NU VT-231 once I feel inclined to move along. It may be a while.

*First time in awhile the ECBA really pulls away from the Zana Deux with this headphone


----------



## SearchOfSub

can the hd800 sound as open as listening to speakers nearfield?


----------



## wink

YES.  There are times when I don't even know I have them on my head.
  
 And, yes I have heard speakers nearfield lots of times.


----------



## lilbthebasedgod

To me the 800 isn't even the most open sounding headphone I've had.  Mine are very bass heavy compared to what most people are hearing out of theirs, so it may not be indicative, but my old AD900x and AD700 had even more exaggerated soundstages.


----------



## pervysage

lilbthebasedgod said:


> To me the 800 isn't even the most open sounding headphone I've had.  Mine are very bass heavy compared to what most people are hearing out of theirs, so it may not be indicative, but my old AD900x and AD700 had even more exaggerated soundstages.


 
  
 What are you running for an amp/source?


----------



## lilbthebasedgod

pervysage said:


> What are you running for an amp/source?


 
 Not anything good that's for sure.  I'm in a bind monetarily right now and am saving for something better.
  
 I'm running off an aune t1.  I understand this can completely shrink soundstage and has a channel imbalance problem.


----------



## SearchOfSub

Anyone compare hd650 revised version vs hd800? worth extra cost?


----------



## Zoom25

searchofsub said:


> can the hd800 sound as open as listening to speakers nearfield?


 

 Nope, but 24 bit recordings do occasionally make me turn my head. I've been enjoying mid fields a lot more in the past few years.


----------



## Sorrodje

searchofsub said:


> Anyone compare hd650 revised version vs hd800? worth extra cost?


 
  
 Extra cost for HD800 over the HD650 ?


----------



## Mahdi8

Hd650 is not even close to hd800 in details, clarity and instrument separation. But i do enjoy hd650 for its bass kick


----------



## BobFiggins

Diving into technical specs, trying to figure out what you would recommend between these two choices. Valhalla 2 or Mjolnir 2? Cost aside, pretend they cost the same thing. 
  
 Currently using Vali, and it's not cutting it, even though it does sound quite nice and relaxing:
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 220mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 115mW RMS per channel
 
Valhalla 2:
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 800mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 450mW RMS per channel
 
Mjolnir 2:
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 850mW RMS per channel 
 Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 425mW RMS per channel 
  
 So the technical specs say the HD 800 can use a maximum of 500mW over a long period of time. What does this actually mean? Is this at 300 ohms? The Valhalla 2 and Mjolnir 2 both have more than 500mW at 300 ohms, this isn't a bad thing is it, since it's more than 500?
  
 I'm not a very technical person, so what does all of this really mean for me, the average joe wanting to listen to my music correctly powered? The money isn't an issue, I just want to make sure I get the right thing. EDIT: When I say money isn't an issue, I mean in that pricerange, and I would like to stick to Schiit for this particular discussion. Also, will Mjolnir 2 sound the same as Valhalla 2, or will it be different? After using the HD 700 with the Valhalla 2, that was an incredibly enjoyable sound with great PRAT. I'd be sad if all of that was lost with the Mjolnir 2.


----------



## jsgraha

If money isn't an issue, one may choose from this list, maybe between no 11-15.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/12600#post_10774632


----------



## icebear

@BobFiggins
 At this level (HD800) it's not about quantity but quality of the amplification.
 You will never listen at max. level of the amplifier unless it is severly lacking power to drive the headphones. I am driving my room speakers with a 25Wpc First Watt M2 and it sound waaay better than the previous amp which was rated like 150Wpc. Don't buy you equipement by specs drivel in marketing publications but listen to the sound with your favorite music at normal listening levels.


----------



## BobFiggins

jsgraha said:


> If money isn't an issue, one may choose from this list, maybe between no 11-15.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/12600#post_10774632


 
  
 What I really meant was, money isn't an issue for the same price range, sorry.
  
 I really would like to know about Valhalla 2 vs Mjolnir 2 though. I realize what I said will probably get me more responses telling me other things to buy, but I'd like to start off simple with something I'm more familiar with. I've dealt with Schiit multiple times and am quite comfortable purchasing from them.
  
 That is a good guide though, no Mjolnir listed though, I wonder if that's because he hasn't heard it yet, or it's not worthy. Sent him a PM to see. This does bring me back though, the reason I got Vali was because of his review of it. When I purchased the HD 700, I was always aware I might upgrade to the HD 800, and I'd have something capable of driving it decently. I originally had the Valhalla 2 also, but found it to be somewhat too aggressive with the HD 700. I regret returning it though, after going to many headphone meets nothing has yet to impress me as much as the Valhalla 2 did.


----------



## shultzee

bobfiggins said:


> jsgraha said:
> 
> 
> > If money isn't an issue, one may choose from this list, maybe between no 11-15.
> ...


 

 I can't give a comparison between mj2 and valhalla 2 , but I can say the Mj2 does a amazing job with the hd800's.  After getting  a good set of tubes I am extremely satisfied with the pairing.


----------



## pumpe19

Ok, back again with a little update on my ongoing evaluation process for finding my perfect match in amp/day for the HD800s.

 The other day I gave the Sennheiser HDVD 800 a run. My subjective impressions compared to the Musical Fidelity MX DAC and MX HPA:
 Positiv: smoother sound overall, for lack of a better word, just easy to listen to.
 Negativ: smoother sound overall, for lack of a better word, just easy to listen to.

 Yes, that’s right, the positive is also the negative.
 IMO it tries too hard to sound pleasing, even a bit like it is trying to chum up to the listener.
 In comparison to the Musical Fidelity setup, tracks often lack detail, separation and the cold, dry punch in the lows. Keep in mind that these impressions are all very subjective and the difference is not night and day. It’s more an overall tendency.
  
 Now for aesthetics: it kind of parallels the sound signature. Sennheiser tried hard to design a visual pleasing unit. Too hard for my taste. As with the sound, everything is smooth, immediately appealing. Style over substance one might say. I went away from the unit with feeling of, when buying this I would feel a bit ripped off. Like I bought in on a too obvious scheme. Sorry, hard to put in (english) words 

 Anyway, next up will be the T+A DAC 8 (with integrated Headphone Amp). Heard good things about the unit and will give it a try. Anybody tried this one with the HD800s?

 Cheers,
 Pumpe19


----------



## gnomen

Thanks everyone for recommendations on closed-back headphones to accompany the HD800s.  Will audition some of these in the near future for portable use.  Top of list on desk checking: Oppo PM-3, NAD HP50 and, just because I want to, the Bowers & Wilkins P7s (I mean, their speakers are so great ... ).
  
 Wish I could wear IEMs there are so many excellent suggestions.  But alas I am in the minority that just cannot get along with them.
  
 We have probably hijacked this thread long enough.  Back to the HD800s (no problem there, then)
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## gnomen

pumpe19 said:


> Ok, back again with a little update on my ongoing evaluation process for finding my perfect match in amp/day for the HD800s.
> 
> The other day I gave the Sennheiser HDVD 800 a run. My subjective impressions compared to the Musical Fidelity MX DAC and MX HPA:
> Positiv: smoother sound overall, for lack of a better word, just easy to listen to.
> ...


 

 Are you going to try thee Hugo?  Same price range as the HDVD800 (at least here in the UK) -- I cannot decide between the two and will have to set up an audition when I can find a dealer who stocks both. 
  
 Consensus view seems to be that the HDVD800 is an excellent amp for the 800s, while the Hugo is an amazing DAC.
  
 Cheers


----------



## JaZZ

gnomen said:


> Consensus view seems to be that the HDVD800 is an excellent amp for the 800s, while the Hugo is an amazing DAC.


 
  
 I disagree. Here's why. The best amp is no amp. (I'm speaking from own experience.)


----------



## kapanak

My GO V2 Infinity sounds better with HD800 than the Hugo. By a long shot. Do not believe the HF hype for Hugo. 

The best starter pack for HD800 in my opinion and experience is as follows:

What I have owned or extensively heard:

Geek Out V2 Infinity (by itself, best if using balanced out, for that extra bit of juice) + Valhalla 2.

What is generally agreed amongst non-hype based circles:

Any Schiit Multibit DAC (Bifrost or Gungnir) + Valhalla 2.

The Hugo is not only extremely poor value for what you get, it is also just not a very refined product for the demanding HD800.


----------



## lilbthebasedgod

So my graph came in today.  Corresponds with what I'm hearing from the tone generator pretty well.  There is a peak but the low end is warm enough to balance it a bit so its not that big of a deal.


----------



## JaZZ

kapanak said:


> My GO V2 Infinity sounds better with HD800 than the Hugo. By a long shot. Do not believe the HF hype for Hugo.
> 
> The best starter pack for HD800 in my opinion and experience is as follows:
> 
> ...


 
  
 To each his own. Your «poor value» is my bargain – based on own listening experience, not hype. Moreover an excellent match with my modified HD 800. (I suppose yours is in original state.)


----------



## kapanak

lilbthebasedgod said:


> So my graph came in today.  Corresponds with what I'm hearing from the tone generator pretty well.  There is a peak but the low end is warm enough to balance it a bit so its not that big of a deal.


 

 EQ it VERY lightly and surgically based on that graph and your own ears and the tone generator then  I think you will be most pleased


----------



## BirdManOfCT

lilbthebasedgod said:


> So my graph came in today.  Corresponds with what I'm hearing from the tone generator pretty well.  There is a peak but the low end is warm enough to balance it a bit so its not that big of a deal.


 
 Can you post it on the certificate thread, too?
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/433059/sennheiser-hd800-certificate-for-frequency-response-arrived
  
 Thanks for the update!
  
 [edited to correct the URL]


----------



## Sorrodje

kapanak said:


> The Hugo is not only extremely poor value for what you get, it is also just not a very refined product for the demanding HD800.


 
  
 I'm definitely in line with this opinion.


----------



## yates7592

[quote name="Taowolf51" 

Take a look at some pelican cases, they'd be a great carrying case for the HD800's. I believe there's a specific model people here recommended.
[/quote]

Pelican 1100 is perfect.


----------



## Sorrodje

Pelican 1300 as well .


----------



## JamieMcC

kapanak said:


> The Hugo is not only extremely poor value for what you get, it is also just not a very refined product for the demanding HD800.


 
  


sorrodje said:


> I'm definitely in line with this opinion.


 
  
 Interesting comments, while my own search for a new dac continues personally I am not a fan of the Hugo's aesthetics or connectivity options however there is undeniably a lot of info online about it perhaps more comparisons with other dacs than any other. Because of this it had crossed my mind to purchase a used one to try temporarily and get some kind of bench mark to work off for a significant purchase. Used Hugos in the UK are relatively easy to come by with one of two turning up each week on UK forum's for around £800 used or at the moment £990 for a one month old store demo one with case and (full warranty) moving on and reselling would be painless.
  
 The Other dac which looks interesting and is reasonably easy to find is the NAD M51 for around £650-£750 for a mint one £900 new (if you haggle). Again lots of reviews on comparisons with others. I am kicking myself as a Auralic Vega was available a few days ago and I was to hesitant about pulling the trigger at £1300 it sold within a few hours.


----------



## kapanak

jamiemcc said:


> Interesting comments, while my own search for a new dac continues personally I am not a fan of the Hugo's aesthetics or connectivity options however there is undeniably a lot of info online about it perhaps more comparisons with other dacs than any other. Because of this it had crossed my mind to purchase a used one to try temporarily and get some kind of bench mark to work off for a significant purchase. Used Hugos in the UK are relatively easy to come by with one of two turning up each week on UK forum's for around £800 used or at the moment £990 for a one month old store demo one with case and (full warranty) moving on and reselling would be painless.
> 
> The Other dac which looks interesting and is reasonably easy to find is the NAD M51 for around £650-£750 for a mint one £900 new (if you haggle). Again lots of reviews on comparisons with others. I am kicking myself as a Auralic Vega was available a few days ago and I was to hesitant about pulling the trigger at £1300 it sold within a few hours.


 

 The low used price combined with the overly positive hype that offer no real substance out in the wild should set off your alarm sirens.
  
 Save yourself the trouble


----------



## yates7592

sorrodje said:


> Pelican 1300 as well .




You could be right, let me check.


----------



## JaZZ

jamiemcc said:


> Interesting comments, while my own search for a new dac continues personally I am not a fan of the Hugo's aesthetics or connectivity options however there is undeniably a lot of info online about it perhaps more comparisons with other dacs than any other. Because of this it had crossed my mind to purchase a used one to try temporarily and get some kind of bench mark to work off for a significant purchase. Used Hugos in the UK are relatively easy to come by with one of two turning up each week on UK forum's for around £800 used or at the moment £990 for a one month old store demo one with case and (full warranty) moving on and reselling would be painless.
> 
> The Other dac which looks interesting and is reasonably easy to find is the NAD M51 for around £650-£750 for a mint one £900 new (if you haggle). Again lots of reviews on comparisons with others. I am kicking myself as a Auralic Vega was available a few days ago and I was to hesitant about pulling the trigger at £1300 it sold within a few hours.


 
  
 Apart from the really great DAC sound the Hugo comes with a world-class headphone amp* for free – unlike most of its competitors. You should take that into consideration.
  


kapanak said:


> The low used price combined with the *overly positive hype that offer no real substance* out in the wild should set off your alarm sirens.


 
  
 So a device that gets huge praise worldwide should be avoided according to your strategy? Who defines what the «substance» in audio is? Mr. Kapanak? According to my understanding and my ears the Hugo is maybe the best value in its category for people with a certain sonic ideal (high accuracy, unvarnished presentation), such as me. It's bad discussion culture to disqualify others' decisions and preferences as caused by an unmerited hype.
  
 *The world-class headphone amp is in fact none – the Hugo's DAC output drives headphones directly. This is a unique feature which can't be rated highly enough in my book. According to my (long) audio experience every amp, every electronics component colors the sound, sacrifices transparency by introducing distortion and signal rounding. So if you're intrested in an unvarnished, maybe (instead) somewhat unspectacular sound with great precision, the Hugo might be for you, even and especially with the HD 800. Of course unlike other amps the Hugo won't create the right synergy if the HD 800 sounds too bright and lean to you from the start. But in this case there are better methods without the adverse effects, the first being modification, the second equalizing.


----------



## JamieMcC

jazz said:


> Apart from the really great DAC sound the Hugo comes with a world-class headphone amp* for free – unlike most of its competitors. You should take that into consideration.


 
  
 Yes that was not lost on me. It would also give me that bench mark to be able to relate to many other reviews at the moment I am just flapping around in the dark reading up on different options.
  
 I have a nice selection of head amps already so its really my digital front end which now that requires some serious thought.


----------



## JaZZ

jamiemcc said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > Apart from the really great DAC sound the Hugo comes with a world-class headphone amp* for free – unlike most of its competitors. You should take that into consideration.
> ...


 
  
 You could of course wait for DAVE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Should be released by the end of the year.


----------



## JamieMcC

jazz said:


> You could of course wait for DAVE.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The grief I would get from her indoors on such a purchase is unimaginable.


----------



## FlySweep

I had a chance to extensively use the Chord Hugo with the (Anax-modded and un-modded) HD800 (among other phones like the HD650, HE-560, etc.) recently.. I used it as purely as a DAC to feed a few well regarded dedicated amps, as well.  Used as a DAC/amp as well as a pure DAC, it was extremely underwhelming.  I saw the price tag and laughed.
  
 I'd take a Geek Out 450 (DAC) + Leckerton UHA-6S MKII amp (w/ ADA4627-BRZ opamps) over that overpriced trash ANY day of the week.  The GO/Leck stack took the Hugo to the woodshed when it came to clarity, control, transparency, and resolution... I found the GoLeck stack a FAR more impressive when it came to value, as well* *(the GOLeck stack can be had for under $500).
  
 Holy smokes.. $2500 for that thing?  FOH.
  
 IMOYMMVOMGWTFBBQLOLWATYGG.


----------



## Mach3

flysweep said:


> I had a chance to extensively use the Chord Hugo with the (Anax-modded and un-modded) HD800 (among other phones like the HD650, HE-560, etc.) recently.. I used it as purely as a DAC to feed a few well regarded dedicated amps, as well.  Used as a DAC/amp as well as a pure DAC, it was extremely underwhelming.  I saw the price tag and laughed.
> 
> I'd take a Geek Out 450 (DAC) + Leckerton UHA-6S MKII amp (w/ ADA4627-BRZ opamps) over that overpriced trash ANY day of the week.  The GO/Leck stack took the Hugo to the woodshed when it came to clarity, control, transparency, and resolution... I found the GoLeck stack a FAR more impressive when it came to value, as well* *(the GOLeck stack can be had for under $500).
> 
> ...


 
 Bhahah You've just hurted a lot of Hugo owner with that assertion.


----------



## minjam11

I just had to share this picture with you guys. This is my first time hearing the HD800 through HDVA 600 a few months back in a music store in Rotterdam. I haven't had a chance to try them out until then and you can clearly see that I'm blown away. If I just had the chance to listen to them again...  They are not available for try-outs in any store where I live (Serbia) and I'm not financially capable of buying them.


----------



## whirlwind

Glad you had the chance to listen to them


----------



## BirdManOfCT

minjam11 said:


> I just had to share this picture with you guys. This is my first time hearing the HD800 through HDVA 600 a few months back in a music store in Rotterdam. I haven't had a chance to try them out until then and you can clearly see that I'm blown away. If I just had the chance to listen to them again...  They are not available for try-outs in any store where I live (Serbia) and I'm not financially capable of buying them.


 
 Wow! I would love to visit a store like that!


----------



## wink

Quote:Flyswat 





> IMOYMMVOMGWTFBBQLOLWATYGG.


 
 Trans: In a pig's eye........


----------



## Mach3

jsgraha said:


> If money isn't an issue, one may choose from this list, maybe between no 11-15.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/12600#post_10774632




To be fair, considering he is an associate of eddie current. I would take his statement for best amp for hd800 period with a grain of salt.
no offence but bias much?


----------



## kapanak

mach3 said:


> To be fair, considering he is an associate of eddie current. I would take his statement for best amp for hd800 period with a grain of salt.
> no offence but bias much?


 

 This list was written years before he started working for Eddie Current. It is not biased.


----------



## rayfalkner

Several experienced people on Innerfidelity's Big Sound do choose Eddie Current amp as one of their top choice for HD800, I think that speaks volume about its quality.
  
Chord products on the other hand...


----------



## TokenGesture

rayfalkner said:


> Several experienced people on Innerfidelity's Big Sound do choose Eddie Current amp as one of their top choice for HD800, I think that speaks volume about its quality.
> 
> Chord products on the other hand...


 

 ... were not provided to Tyll for Big Sound (I believe he wanted a Hugo TT)
  
 Chord seems pretty divisive round these parts...


----------



## rayfalkner

This kind of conversation will probably derail the thread so I'll shut up after this.
  
 For Hugo TT I don't need to wait for Tyll or others to do their impressions whatsoever. I listened to it couple of days ago on IHEAC Jakarta and I sincerely think that is not a product worthy of $4500 price tag. Something is definitely wrong when an X-Sabre + WA6SE setup that cost half of Hugo TT still sounds better, extracting more details with a clear rendering of mids on a nice, black background.
  
 Does Hugo TT sounds bad? No, it's doing fine. Does Hugo TT worth its price tag? No.
  
 There are audio devices with way better value out there to be nicely paired with HD800, but hey it's your money not mine.


----------



## SearchOfSub

does the hd800 come with any foams you can remove like many other headphones.


----------



## PleasantSounds

No it doesn't, but I think there are cheaper ways to get some foam...


----------



## Sorrodje

pleasantsounds said:


> No it doesn't, but I think there are cheaper ways to get some foam...


 
  
 ROFL !


----------



## Mach3

kapanak said:


> This list was written years before he started working for Eddie Current. It is not biased.


 
 Fair enough, point taken.


----------



## vnmslsrbms

kapanak said:


> This list was written years before he started working for Eddie Current. It is not biased.


 
 Well, I'd say any opinion is biased.  But it's clear that Tyll is a guy who gets it right (at least in an honest and extensive effort).  Most of us don't go to the extents he does, so we can all respect that.


----------



## Raika

yeah agreed hugo TT is overpriced so is Hugo too , but still Hugo is the best dac/amp  ,
 . I see lampizator 4 gen 5 is way better in musicality ,also Aqua Hifi La is new dac and better too .


----------



## shultzee

V





raika said:


> yeah agreed hugo TT is overpriced so is Hugo too , but still Hugo is the best dac/amp  ,
> . I see lampizator 4 gen 5 is way better in musicality ,also Aqua Hifi La is new dac and better too .
> [/quote
> 
> ...


----------



## gnomen

jazz said:


> I disagree. Here's why. The best amp is no amp. (I'm speaking from own experience.)


 

 Hi *JaZZ*, great article and thanks for the link. 
  
 My only caveat with the article is that most audio designers have very credible theories for why their design will be an improvement on others.  That probably would include the people at Sennheiser who thought the best result with their own headphones called for their own DAC/Amp.  There are plenty of listeners on Head-Fi who say, for example, that balanced output to the HD800 produces better sound -- something not possible with the Hugo and not covered in Rob Watt's explanation.
  
 I did not expect my comment to provoke 2-3 pages of 'anti-Hugo' remarks thereafter, however!
  
 I have not auditioned either the Hugo or the HDVD800 at this stage. I was just curious how they would compare and asked *pumpe19 *if he was going to include the Hugo in his explorations.  Maybe 'consensus' was too strong a term but the Hugo has certainly gathered a massive amount of praise.  Not least on this forum where there are several threads dedicated to the Hugo and Hugo TT with 100s of posts from enthusiastic users.
  
 Both the Hugo and the HDVD800 will be on my list to audition.  I have been paying attention here to learn from others which units are the front runners and what to expect when I come to listen for myself.  I have owned my HD800s since Easter and love them.  At the moment I play them through a Weiss DAC-202 and they sound great.  However, the Weiss is the centrepiece of my living room stereo (Mark Levinson No. 95 and No. 380S and ATC-SCM50A speakers).  The Weiss needs to return there and be replaced by a dedicated HP DAC/Amp to use with the HD800s.  I purchased the Weiss in 2012 and other DACs I listened to at the time all had different characters.  To my ears the Weiss had the best blend of smoothness and detail -- able to immerse you in the sound world and yet forgiving of mediocre source materials.  The man who sold it to me was surprised I preferred it over the Bel Canto DAC3.5.  But I found the Bel Canto un-listenable with all but the very best source materials -- it was so dry you could strip paint with it.  The Weiss came with Amarra Hi-Fi software.  I begged to disagree with Daniel Weiss and chose Pure Music as the better source for his DAC.  Happy ever since.
  
 Will certainly come back and post my own impressions here once I have had direct listening experience.  In the meantime I look forward to hearing more from *pumpe19 *about his explorations.  And others, of course.  Thanks to everyone for their contributions.
  
 Cheers
  
 Robert


----------



## Raika

RE LEAF E1 best high end amp in the world for both headphones or speakers , even better than GOLDMUND Telos Headphone .


----------



## kapanak

raika said:


> RE LEAF E1 best high end amp in the world for both headphones or speakers , even better than GOLDMUND Telos Headphone .


 

 If I can't even get a site, review or specifications by doing a Google search on that name, then you're doing it wrong.


----------



## Raika

I have friend in japan I asked him about to this amp and how he compare it to other amps that he own in his shop ? he told it's the best of the best . RELIEF E1 is a beast amp . Also before I order I demo or read review that's it .


----------



## JaZZ

gnomen said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree. Here's why. The best amp is no amp. (I'm speaking from own experience.)
> ...


 
  
 Hi Robert
  
 Yes, I'm surprised as well about the «Hugo bashing» in this thread. It's not that I don't understand a different perception or sonic ideal, but the tone is rather poisened and apparently meant to hurt Hogo owners and proponents. As I see it, it must be some backlash from the broad enthusiasm which logically isn't shared by all, so those feeling excluded from the wave may tend to put the product and its purchasers down.
  
 I like to read Rob Watts' remarks a lot, although I don't understand everything. It's unique to get so much insider information from the developer on a public forum, and his own enthusiasm about the Hugo and his dedication to sound quality come accross very sympathetic, the posts don't just serve for pushing the sales. That said, I'm aware that other manufacturers may have their own path to good sound that works equally well – I don't have the possibility to do comparisions with contemporary products (on the other hand the Hugo sounds far more detailed than my Bel Canto DAC2). All I know is that Rob is right with his advocating of using the Hugo for driving headphones without an external amp, since there's no amplification stage to be bypassed. And to me the lacking headphone amp seems worth just as much as any possible advantages in terms of DAC quality with competitive products – which may be subjective anyway. I'm speaking of a puristic approach with the goal of a signal as close as possible to the recording as opposed to euphonic coloration, spectacular sound or synergetic effects generally.
  
 I guess the latter is the main reason why some people go so far as to prefer $500 gear to the Hugo. To my ears the *HD 800*'s sonic balance is thankful for some counterbalancing electronics. Now the Hugo certainly doesn't do any warming and rounding, although it has a smooth characteristic per se. I don't have the possibility to audition an unmodified HD 800 anymore, but I'm sure I would quickly change the EQ settings when it's driven by the Hugo. And I'm just as confident that I would like the pairing with my Mapletree EAR+++ better – it makes the sound full and round to every headphone geek's delight. With damping and equalizing the EAR+++ catches dust, though – the Hugo's headphone out sounds that much better. More accurate and detailed, more lifelike.


----------



## Mortalcoil

raika said:


> yeah agreed hugo TT is overpriced so is Hugo too , but still Hugo is the best dac/amp  ,
> . I see lampizator 4 gen 5 is way better in musicality ,also Aqua Hifi La is new dac and better too .


----------



## vhsownsbeta

If anyone is looking to buy HD800 I have a brand new pair for sale in the classifieds...
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/783376/new-sennheiser-hd800


----------



## Sorrodje

jazz said:


> Hi Robert
> 
> Yes, I'm surprised as well about the «Hugo bashing» in this thread.


 
  
 Just allow us to dislike the Hugo. 
  
 I heard it at home during three weeks and didn't like it , nor as DAC or DAC/AMP.  I asked two friend to test it with their Audeze and they didn't like it. Another good friend tried and gave me his impressions more recently and guess what ? he didn't like it. We all struggled with the same issues : Left/right soundstage without enough depth, lack of focus /center in that soundstage and a coarse treble that produces (IMO) fake details.
  
 Even if the entire world praised the Hugo, I still have the right to not like it I presum 
  
 Some other neutral/Transparent gear ot at least designed to me so sound better IME . I think to Jan Meier DACCORD and Corda JAZZ for example .  A full TOTL Meier Stack is 1200€ . Considerig my experience, I can't by any means advice the Hugo for any Headphone I can think of.  I'd happy to borrow one and compare directly to the GOv2 I just bought.  Considering 
  
 I appreciated it with my IEMs though . it was clearly better that my fiio X3 in any way (cleaner with a way better instrument separation was the points that jumped to my ears) . better that a X3 ok but 2300€ good ? hell no.
  
 I'm glad you enjoy yours though.  To each their own. I wholeheartly advice to anyone to try it and make a proper opinion as usual.


----------



## JaZZ

sorrodje said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Robert
> ...


 
  
 Your comment wouldn't have been necessary if you'd read the next sentence(s) as well.


----------



## ubs28

I cancelled the HDVD800 that I ordered when I auditioned it a few times. The Chord Hugo provides a more high quality signal, so the Chord Hugo can't be that bad.


----------



## joespride

HD 800on the way, I have the HiFiMan HE500 which I really like but all the superb reviews have me curious and I finally bit the Bullet,  I have seen many mixed reviews about the brightness, some say no some say yes, I like clear highs but something overly bright will fatigue me after a Bit, I am truly looking forward to hearing the improved imaging
  
 My amp is the ampsandsound Kenzie,   http://ampsandsound.com/products/custom-amps/kenzie-headphone-amp/
  
 Source is an upgraded MHDT Havana, with files flowing FLAC through Jriver
  
  
 I am hoping all my tubes will add enough warmth to offset any percieved brightness,  anyone here have an opinion on this setup with the HD800..............Curious about how power Hungry the 800's are or are not


----------



## whirlwind

joespride said:


> HD 800on the way, I have the HiFiMan HE500 which I really like but all the superb reviews have me curious and I finally bit the Bullet,  I have seen many mixed reviews about the brightness, some say no some say yes, I like clear highs but something overly bright will fatigue me after a Bit, I am truly looking forward to hearing the improved imaging
> 
> My amp is the ampsandsound Kenzie,   http://ampsandsound.com/products/custom-amps/kenzie-headphone-amp/
> 
> ...


 
 Oh man...I think you are really going to love them, with that amp, very nice......roll those tubes and find something wonderful. You are gonna have some great fun me thinks   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have been listening for two weeks now through Glenn's amp and I am having a blast going through my library and rolling tubes.


----------



## joespride

I have had the kenzie for awhile now I went through the tube rolling effort  and was able to zero in on what I thought sounded best,1943 Hytron 1626 / vt237, and the Raytheon 2c52.  The Havana dac is sporting the WE396a Also rolled through a good selection of those and landed on the WE
  
 I really like the HE500, but when the bug bites there is but 1 way to quench the thirst, try them at home for myself..................The cool thing is I should easily recoup my $$$ if I find they dont fit, the hd800 seem to hold there value
  
 Thanks for sharing, this is the 2nd reference I have seen to Glenn's Amp, it certainly sounds / looks like a winner  according to posts I have seen 
  
 I will provide impressions after a time with the 800's


----------



## fuzzybaffy

I own neither the HE-500 or HD-800, but by viewing this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SYbrGB_rA4 I already know the HD-800 is going to be an upgrade. 
  
 Yea, it's not a video to be taken seriously by "true" audiophiles, but I can clearly hear, from outside of the cans, the differences in detail as he switches from the HD-800 to the HE-500.


----------



## joespride

Thanks for the link, checked it out and I agree there is a definite difference in sound on the video..................just hope they are not overly bright like some say


----------



## Takeanidea

They aren't overly bright! The sound can be modified using the anaxilus mod or by reducing the output in the higher ranges. I have done the anaxilus mod. Took 20 minutes , no real skills needed. Whether it has altered the sound for the better there still appears to be no overly brightness about these phones. I read all about these phones a day bought a pair without having listened to them. That was 4 years ago and I have never regretted it. I would not recommend anyone else to spend that much money without trying first having said that. As for amps and dacs , like any reference phones of 300 ohms the HD800s should sound great out of anything from an 02 to a Chord. I have never plugged them in to anything that made them sound horrible, they don't produce enough without an amp on most stuff except in the most quiet environments. 
Anyone else using a Fidelity Audio HPA 200 SE with these? 
I believe I have the only one ever made. The Ibasso DX100 and Questyle QP1R certainly power the 800s to ear shattering levels. I often listen just through the DX100. Arguably i get improved results powering it through my Dac and Head Amp.


----------



## Prachtsau

-


----------



## pumpe19

Hey guys, back again with even more impressions.

 Status quo as of now:
 Music Fidelity MX-DAC + Music Fidelity MX-HPA is the winning Setup for now.

 As mentioned in my earlier post, I compared it to the T+A DAC8 (with its integrated headphone amp).
 Sound wise the T+A is a real pleaser. Warm, detailed, nice soundstage. Even though the MFs do not reproduce a sound as warm, they just play much more “to the point”. Better separation, therefore a wider soundstage, just more “airy”. Furthermore they just seem quicker, faster, less decay. Sure, that might be a personal taste thing, but I prefer it to the cuddly sound of the T+A.

 And to pin point what component has the bigger effect on the sound, I connected the MX-HPA to the T+A  DAC. Sound got a tiny bit warmer with the MX-HPA, but that might be my mind tricking me. So the headamp is responsible - for the most part - for the sound signature (DUH
 Witch led me to the conclusion that a less expensive DAC feeding the MF MX-HPA might do the trick too. So I ordered the Ifi Micro DSD for testing… yeah, more testing!
  
 Another thing bothering me a little bit was the T+A Windows driver. It just doesn’t feel as smooth working as the Musical Fidelity driver does. Switching devices in Foobar or TIDAL took longer, sometimes - after device changes - sound play stopped altogether. Only restarting the player helped. In addition, most of the time the T+A just clipped the first 0.5sec of a new track (especially in TIDAL).
 Also, changing the volume resulted in some white noise. Not always, but often enough.
 Lastly, and that is a personal thing again: the T+A has just too much customization options. I counted six combinations of Filters one could apply. Moreover, they actually sound quite different. Therefore, if you would want the best sound, you have to play around and find the best filter for each album or genre. Even though there is one configuration, which seemed to be the lowest common denominator, I always would feel the urge to play around with that configuration.
  
 Anyway, I have a feeling my journey to my personal Hi-Fi summit might come to a close soon. At least one Musical Fidelity Device will be there with me.

*@gnomen* (aka Robert) Actually, i would have tried the Hugo. However, getting one in these parts for auditioning might just be too big an annoyance.
  
 Thanks for reading.
  
 Cheers
 Pumpe19


----------



## Raika

mortalcoil said:


>


 
 you think it's simple to make dac looks like this ? some of the parts cost 100 $ or more , not cheap chip like other dac ..


----------



## kapanak

raika said:


> you think it's simple to make dac looks like this ? some of the parts cost 100 $ or more , not cheap chip like other dac ..


 

 You must be joking. That DAC's internals are any EE's nightmare.


----------



## Gr8Desire

takeanidea said:


> They aren't overly bright! The sound can be modified using the anaxilus mod or by reducing the output in the higher ranges. I have done the anaxilus mod. Took 20 minutes , no real skills needed. Whether it has altered the sound for the better there still appears to be no overly brightness about these phones. I read all about these phones a day bought a pair without having listened to them. That was 4 years ago and I have never regretted it. I would not recommend anyone else to spend that much money without trying first having said that. As for amps and dacs , like any reference phones of 300 ohms the HD800s should sound great out of anything from an 02 to a Chord. I have never plugged them in to anything that made them sound horrible, they don't produce enough without an amp on most stuff except in the most quiet environments.
> Anyone else using a Fidelity Audio HPA 200 SE with these?
> I believe I have the only one ever made. The Ibasso DX100 and Questyle QP1R certainly power the 800s to ear shattering levels. I often listen just through the DX100. Arguably i get improved results powering it through my Dac and Head Amp.


 
 Or you can use a tone control (and that goes for any product especially when listening at lower levels.


----------



## wink

Quote:kapanak 





> raika said:
> 
> 
> > you think it's simple to make dac looks like this ? some of the parts cost 100 $ or more , not cheap chip like other dac ..
> ...


 
 Relax, it takes a special brilliance in electronic shambolism to come up with something as devoid of craftmanship as that.
  
 It may be that it's sole purpose is to be a warning to other manufacturers of electronic goods.


----------



## Raika

which is better he 1000 or hd 800 : in head stage ,separation of instruments and resolution ,3d sound ,out of your head sound


----------



## Mortalcoil

raika said:


> mortalcoil said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 

   Especially the bread board


----------



## Zoom25

Moved from Macbook Pro running Audirvana Plus to Bryston BDP-1. It's a noticeable improvement in sound quality. Also, good to get away from the computer.


----------



## shultzee

mortalcoil said:


> raika said:
> 
> 
> > mortalcoil said:
> ...


 

 LOL Mortalcoil.   They had a extra one laying around in the kitchen.


----------



## Raika

who want to trade his hd 800 for my lcd 3 F ?>


----------



## SearchOfSub

I do. Only problem is that its HD650.


----------



## SearchOfSub

Anyone try HDVA800 with HD800?


----------



## ubs28

I found a dealer that can sell the Taurus MK2. Is this a good buy considering that there are better amplifier on the market? ( I still haven't found a dealer that sells the GS-X MK2 unfortunately 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 And is it just a minor upgrade in sound over the Chord Hugo but at a very high price tag or is it a major upgrade? There is no demo unit so I basically have to order it and then return it if I don't find the upgrade significant.


----------



## ubs28

searchofsub said:


> Anyone try HDVA800 with HD800?


 

 I have many times. It sounds good and apparently many people buy the HD800 + HDVD800 combination and none have returned it based on what a local dealer told me.
  
 I personally didn't think it was worth the money since I have a Chord Hugo. If I didn't have a Chord Hugo already, it might be something I would have considered.


----------



## SearchOfSub

ubs28 said:


> I have many times. It sounds good and apparently many people buy the HD800 + HDVD800 combination and none have returned it based on what a local dealer told me.
> 
> I personally didn't think it was worth the money since I have a Chord Hugo. If I didn't have a Chord Hugo already, it might be something I would have considered.





Did you like sound of chord hugo + hd800 more?


----------



## ubs28

searchofsub said:


> Did you like sound of chord hugo + hd800 more?


 

 It's very good. But I didn't buy it for the HD800, I bought for my IEM's.  The soundstage isn't as good as the HDVD800 but it's better in other areas according to my own ears (details, transparency and clarity). I'm not saying the HDVD800 is a bad buy, I'm simply not going to spend $2500 for a slightly better soundstage while loosing in other area's. 
  
 I'm going to add an external amplifier which will probably put the soundstage on par what I heard from the HDVD800 or even better.


----------



## Oregonian

raika said:


> who want to trade his hd 800 for my lcd 3 F ?>


 

 Are you in the US?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ubs28 said:


> I found a dealer that can sell the Taurus MK2. Is this a good buy considering that there are better amplifier on the market? ( I still haven't found a dealer that sells the GS-X MK2 unfortunately
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Caveat, I have not spent a great deal of time with the Hugo outside of Meet conditions. There are those who swear by the Hugo and it's derivatives, I much prefer the Taurus Mk. 2, it plays well with a wide variety of cans and even my CIEMs. My Taurus was magic with the HD800, HEK, Grado PS1000, and my HE560. Just my opinion, an excellent versatile amp.


----------



## JaZZ

ubs28 said:


> I'm going to add an external amplifier which will probably put the soundstage on par what I heard from the HDVD800 or even better.


 
  
 Just a warning: The external amp will degrade the signal – so any soundstage increase will be an artificial addition.


----------



## punit

jazz said:


> Just a warning: The external amp will degrade the signal – so any soundstage increase will be an artificial addition.


 
  Are you saying that even a high quality amp will degrade the signal compared to the amp in Hugo ? So, far example a Hugo on its own driving HD 800 will sound better than Hugo (as a Dac) feeding DNA Stratus ?


----------



## joespride

Good Saturday morning folks, Curious does anyone have a burn in estimate for the HD800
  
 Initial impressions straight outta the box are pretty far from my expectations based on the many comments posted here and around the net, I was expecting a speaker type soundstage,  did not happen, I was expecting excessive high end brightness, nope did not happen, I was expecting poor bass, this did not happen either
  
 System consists of pc running Jriver with flac to Audiophilleo AP1 with Pure Power, to my Upgraded Havana Dac, to MY ampsandsound Kenzie Headphone amp (using the 32 ohm tap, tried the 600 ohm tap which seemed louder but not better) stock HD800 and cable
  
 need some extended listening time with them to see if fatigue becomes an issue................incredible bass impact and frankly they seem to dig plenty deep...............Sheffield drum tracks is sounding pretty damn good.................comfort is a plus compared to my HE500


----------



## kapanak

joespride said:


> Good Saturday morning folks, Curious does anyone have a burn in estimate for the HD800
> 
> Initial impressions straight outta the box are pretty far from my expectations based on the many comments posted here and around the net, I was expecting a speaker type soundstage,  did not happen, I was expecting excessive high end brightness, nope did not happen, I was expecting poor bass, this did not happen either
> 
> ...




For actual mechanical burn-in, probably less than a handful of hours. 

For brain burn-in, probably a week of regular listening  

And you might want to match a well known amp to this HD800 to enjoy it even more. Easy recommendation is Schiit Valhalla 2.


----------



## joespride

Had the valhalla 1 before I got the Kenzie....................I really enjoyed the Valhalla most times.  I loved the holographic image it sometimes portrayed using the Bifrost Uber
  
 appreciate the response, the cans have about 40 hours use
  
  
 so I am guessing pretty much burnt in


----------



## rayfalkner

Quote:


kapanak said:


> For actual mechanical burn-in, probably less than a handful of hours.
> 
> For brain burn-in, probably a week of regular listening
> 
> ...


 
  
 A handful of hours is too generous, I'll say 1 hour of normal use, maximum, primarily just to straighten the cable a bit and get rid of that strange, new-from-factory smell 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But I'll drag my sorry existence out of here lest I'll get tied to a pole and stoned to death by the pros of burn-ins while they yell "Shame!" repeatedly.
  
 *In a more serious tone; personally I don't hear any differences when I listened through my brand new HD800 compared to the shop's stock and already-veteran HD800 that I also listened to, side by side right in front of the dealer. Or perhaps my ears are too distracted by the smell of the new pad, could be a possibility.


----------



## joespride

No Bashing here..............who's to say what someone else hears...................I can say for my ears the only times I have heard a difference with burn is is on headphones, I am guessing the intimacy of the experience allows my older ears to pick up some nuance that escapes my ears on speakers
  
 For instance I had seen COUNTLESS testimony that HD800 has an out of head experience akin to nearfield speaker listening..............My experience with nearfield must have been vastly different than others as I honestly dont hear the huge gains in spacial imagery, Of course this may be gear related but my setup is pretty respectable IMHO  I honestly have a hard time getting sound stage from cans period and feel like it is more imagined ( that or my definition of soundstage is different than others ) I did come to headphones out of necessity from set amps and horn speakers and so soundstage for me means having everything out in front with some centered image as well as artifacts in the material coming from various distances from center to wide left or right. Mentally I can not get myself to a place where I imagine no headphones or get lost in the image as I could with speakers
  
 No Matter though as both speakers and cans have there strengths and I have come to really enjoy cans


----------



## Sorrodje

yup . Saying the HD800 offers a speaker like experience is at best an overstatement , at worst some serious BS. IT's a headphone. Period. Don't expect speaker experience from any headphone .. but don"'t expect heaphone experience from speakers neither .


----------



## BirdManOfCT

sorrodje said:


> yup . Saying the HD800 offers a speaker like experience is at best an overstatement , at worst some serious BS. IT's a headphone. Period. Don't expect speaker experienc from any headphone .. but don"'t expect heaphone experience from speakers neither .


 

 True. My speaker system (long gone) was pretty good, but then I'd go to a symphony and be reminded how far my system was from reality. Same for some $200k systems I'd heard. I think my current headphone setup is about on par with my old speaker system, albeit with the inherent differences between headphones and speakers.


----------



## kapanak

joespride said:


> Had the valhalla 1 before I got the Kenzie....................I really enjoyed the Valhalla most times.  I loved the holographic image it sometimes portrayed using the Bifrost Uber
> 
> appreciate the response, the cans have about 40 hours use
> 
> ...


 

 Ah yes, I did not see the Amp & Sound Kenzie Headphone amp in your comment at first read. Great and respectable amp and most likely a good pairing with the HD800.
 I have heard it with the HD800, but found the sound signature closer to that of the Bottlehead Crack than the Valhalla 2. Nice and warm, with musically smooth sound.


----------



## joespride

Kenzie on par (ish) with bottlehead crack ?  Am I correct in that crack is OTL, and Valhalla is OTL, One would expect those 2 to sound similar.  I found the Kenzie to be a bit more neutral than valhalla 1 while retaining some tube warmth
  
 I think the combination Kenzie / hd800 is very good, but I do yearn for the Valhalla SQ, It had it's moments


----------



## JaZZ

punit said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > Just a warning: The external amp will degrade the signal – so any soundstage increase will be an artificial addition.
> ...


 
  
 Yes. Or more precisely: There's no headphone amp in the Hugo; the DAC drives line out and headphones in parallel. You can't improve the signal as it is – there's no internal amp to be bypassed and to improve upon. That said, it's possible that you'll prefer the amped signal – many amps have a euphonic and more forgiving characteristic than the pure direct signal, moreover the HD 800 may benefit from a smoothing and full sounding amp. Or you may think the Hugo doesn't have the ideal synergy with the HD 800 in terms of sonic balance. Or your listening level is too loud for the Hugo's output power (unlikely with the HD 800). However, you'll sacrifice accuracy and transparency compared to the direct connection in any event. There are better methods for correcting the sonic balance according to individual preferences without needless electronics in the signal path and the corresponding signal corruption.


----------



## kapanak

> Originally Posted by *JaZZ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Yes. Or more precisely: There's no headphone amp in the Hugo; the DAC drives line out and headphones in parallel. You can't improve the signal as it is – there's no internal amp to be bypassed and to improve upon. That said, it's possible that you'll prefer the amped signal – many amps have a euphonic and more forgiving characteristic than the pure direct signal, moreover the HD 800 may benefit from a smoothing and full sounding amp. Or you may think the Hugo doesn't have the ideal synergy with the HD 800 in terms of sonic balance. Or your listening level is too loud for the Hugo's output power (unlikely with the HD 800). However, you'll sacrifice accuracy and transparency compared to the direct connection in any event. There are better methods for correcting the sonic balance according to individual preferences without needless electronics in the signal path and the corresponding signal corruption.


 
   
 Let's clear something up first. To say there is no internal amp in the HUGO is a load of excrements. People here are going to get the wrong impression. Here's what Rob Watts said:
  
 Quote:


rob watts said:


> Now Hugo has a single active stage - a very high performance op-amp with a discrete op-stage as a hybrid with a single global feedback path. This arrangement means that you have a single active stage, two resistors and two capacitors in the direct signal path -  and that is it. Note: *there is no headphone drive.* Normal high performance DAC's have 3 op-amp stages, followed by a separate headphone amp. So to conclude - Hugo's analogue path is not a simple couple of op-amps chucked together, it is fundamentally simpler than all other headphone amp solutions.


 
  
 There is no HEADPHONE DRIVE. Meaning, there isn't a separate dedicated amplification active stage for headphones only. THERE IS AN AMP. You cannot make a DAC with no amp stage. 
  
 *sigh*
  
 The line-out amp stage is just shared with the headphone drive. This actually isn't a good thing, as the swing in headphones like the HD800 require a well-made amp.


----------



## SearchOfSub

Why people who never heard Hugo with hd800 say Hugo will be bad with hd800? someone posted he prefers Hugo with hd800 over sennheisser own hd800 amp - HDVD800.

I had Hugo before in my speaker setup and it's the best dac/amp I have ever heard. It's refined, sounds analog with good air. It's one of those dac/amp that makes you settle and stop thinking about upgrading. I sold off my whole system because I wanted to take break and make funds for another hobby awhile back, but I am now want to get back to listening recently. But this time, no speakers but with headphones. It's gonna come down to HD800 - and for dac/amp the Hugo or HDVD800. - I've done enough listening now to know that seperates are not the way to go with headphones - all in one like Hugo or HDVD800 or Audioquest dragonfly will always sound better and be more transparent than seperates costing 3x as much.

I know how Hugo sounds - only wish I can demo hdvd800.


----------



## joespride

So I am learning there is 1 advantage to the HD800 I have not seen much publicity over,  They seem to shine at low level 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My Ears may thank Sennheiser


----------



## jude

Several off-topic posts deleted. Thread title is "The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread."


----------



## JaZZ

kapanak said:


> > Originally Posted by *JaZZ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> >
> >
> > Yes. Or more precisely: There's no headphone amp in the Hugo; the DAC drives line out and headphones in parallel. You can't improve the signal as it is – there's no internal amp to be bypassed and to improve upon. That said, it's possible that you'll prefer the amped signal – many amps have a euphonic and more forgiving characteristic than the pure direct signal, moreover the HD 800 may benefit from a smoothing and full sounding amp. Or you may think the Hugo doesn't have the ideal synergy with the HD 800 in terms of sonic balance. Or your listening level is too loud for the Hugo's output power (unlikely with the HD 800). However, you'll sacrifice accuracy and transparency compared to the direct connection in any event. There are better methods for correcting the sonic balance according to individual preferences without needless electronics in the signal path and the corresponding signal corruption.
> ...


 
  


jude said:


> Several off-topic posts deleted. Thread title is "The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread."


 
  
 I'm baffled: What has a load of excrements to do with *HD 800* impressions? And my reply to this polemic post has been deleted?
  
 Just to respond again: I wasn't stating the Hugo have no amplification stage – it just doesn't have a dedicated headphone amp built in. And since headphone out and line out are the same, you can't improve the signal with the use of an external amp, only deteriorate it. You may like the result nonetheless, because it comes with a synergetic change if sonic balance which the *HD 800* will benefit from. In fact I agree that an umodified and unequalized *HD 800* doesn't build up an ideal synergy with the Hugo's headphone out which I consider relatively neutral.
  
 So this concept of renouncing a headphone amp in the Hugo isn't a good thing, as _kapanak_ seems to know. That's a statement that's hard to technically justify.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

I'm still always impressed with my HD 800's its still one of best headphones I ever owned and I tried all flagship headpones (Hifiman, Beyer, AKG, Audeze, etc.) up to Stax SR-009 which is again a level up (as I'm classical music lover), but far to expensive.
  
 I really like a good analog crossfeed implementation with a headphone amp (like the one with the iFi micro iDSD, or micro iCAN with highest crossfeed level) in addition to the HD 800's to make them a way more impressive for classical music listening:


----------



## JaZZ

h1f1add1cted said:


> I'm still always impressed with my HD 800's its still one of best headphones I ever owned and I tried all flagship headpones (Hifiman, Beyer, AKG, Audeze, etc.) up to Stax SR-009 which is again a level up (as I'm classical music lover), but far to expensive.
> 
> I really like a good analog crossfeed implementation with a headphone amp (like the one with the iFi micro iDSD, or micro iCAN with highest crossfeed level) in addition to the HD 800's to make them a way more impressive for classical music listening.


 
  
 I agree – crossfeed has even become mandatory for me.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^Are there "cross-feed" software packages one can purchase to add to traditional amps, if so do you have any recommendations? Thanks!


----------



## JaZZ

There's a software implementation of Jan Meier's «Natural Crossfeed» for _foobar 2000_. I haven't tried it, but according to my experience with his Corda amps it should be good.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

The Meier Crossfeed is a very light crossfeed, but in gernal not bad. It's still DSP if you use software. I prefer ASP crossfeed. So in ASP units for crossfeed like real amps I like the implementation from iFi Audio it's really well done, it's sound much more "right" compared to i.e. Meier Crossfeed plugin like in foobar200 or in Rockbox.


----------



## JaZZ

Don't know iFi, but to my ears the Hugo's crossfeed sounds close to ideal (and my own implementation).


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Yes the Chord Hugo crossfeed is really awesome (like the device itself) IMHO it's pretty much the same quality level like the crossfeed from iFi.


----------



## BobFiggins

Has anyone had a chance to compare the Valhalla 2 to the Mjolnir 2 with the HD 800? What are the notable differences? I'm able to find some impressions of both, but have yet to find someone who has had both, or heard both. Hard to get a good sense of what the differences are without a comparison.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## joespride

More detailed initial impressions
  
 Sennheiser HD800 in the house, My expectations were I would find a bright analytical can that was weak on bass with an out of the head soundstage. This is what I was expecting based on the hundreds of threads / reviews / comments...........My reason for wanting to try them was I wanted a better presentation / soundstage

 Actually hearing them was a shock to the system, 

 1st they were not overly bright and analytical, though they could sound piercing I found that was more source related, in order to attribute that quality to the cans one would expect they sound the same on all material. They sounded sublime on some material and like crap on other material. I started paying attention to selection and using long time considered standards for QUALITY RECORDINGS and I was richly rewarded (dont confuse this statement with meaning high resolution 24 /192 etc...etc...etc... I am talking about albums that are well known as being masterfully recorded and mastered like Steely Dan Aha, all the resolution in the world will not cover up a poor recording and in fact may make it sound worse IME.)

 Next was the Bass, not sure where this reputation was garnered for light on bass perhaps it started with people comparing them with planers or bass heavy cans, I was nearly floored by the impact the HD800 presented, Listening to Sometimes God Smiles Prism track and the superb Sheffield Drum Tracks, and SMV Thunder albums proved anything but lacking in bass. Bass was deep with texture and impact, not Bloated or exaggerated. I is true they dont dig down in to the sub bass regions as well as my HE500 they also dont muddy the waters. color me very happy with the Bass

 Soundstage, My expectations of some miraculous out of head experience was daunted It has been my experience that headphones do MANY things correct, soundstage is NOT one of them, I feel like all the press concerning the soundstage on the HD800 is more about the spatial imagery and not what I consider soudstage, I came to headphones out of necessity from systems that consisted of SET amps and Horn Speakers those systems presented an almost physical image of the material in front of you allowing to to Hear / imagine the individuals and instruments in there perspective places. while headphones can recreate the space in the material it is all still firmly inside your head, I have heard only a couple examples of material which can create that out of head experience Chesky Records Ultimate Headphone is one of those. While I dont see the HD800 as having a true soundstage experience I admit its spacial separation and imagery is better 

 An unexpected Benefit The Hd800 is SUPERB at low level listening, while my HE500 tends to need quite a bit of volume to really shine and open up the HD800 seems to care less, it plays very well at about any volume. My Wife & Ears thank you Sennheiser 

 As I see it the largest drawback to having the HD800 is now something like 25% of my music is unlistenable unless I keep both the HE500 and the HD800, suggestions on how to break that news to the better half will be appreciated.........I have long said I see no reason for multiple cans the HD800 has shown me I was wrong


----------



## JaZZ

joespride said:


> More detailed initial impressions
> 
> Sennheiser HD800 in the house, My expectations were I would find a bright analytical can that was weak on bass with an out of the head soundstage. This is what I was expecting based on the hundreds of threads / reviews / comments...........My reason for wanting to try them was I wanted a better presentation / soundstage
> 
> ...


 

 I see you're not averse to modding. You're not bound to the factory setting with the HD 800 either. Some reflection damping will make it compatible with a broader range of recordings.


----------



## joespride

No not opposed to modding are we talking about the Anaxilus Mod", I have saved the stencil and may try it in the not to distant future,  I will admit I was less hesitant to try mods on a 550.00 can, the 1500.00 scares me a bit but as long as the mods are reversable with no cosmetic / functional damage I will be game
  
 Post some links to the mods of which you speak, and please share any you have performed and your impressions of the improvements
  
 Joe


----------



## JaZZ

joespride said:


> No not opposed to modding are we talking about the Anaxilus Mod", I have saved the stencil and may try it in the not to distant future,  I will admit I was less hesitant to try mods on a 550.00 can, the 1500.00 scares me a bit but as long as the mods are reversable with no cosmetic / functional damage I will be game
> 
> Post some links to the mods of which you speak, and please share any you have performed and your impressions of the improvements
> 
> Joe


 
  
 The link is in my previous post (and my signature). It's the predecessor of the Anaxilus mod (actually the same apart from the materials) – and I clearly prefer it to the latter.


----------



## Taowolf51

joespride said:


> An unexpected Benefit The Hd800 is SUPERB at low level listening, while my HE500 tends to need quite a bit of volume to really shine and open up the HD800 seems to care less, it plays very well at about any volume. My Wife & Ears thank you Sennheiser


 
  
 This is because the HD800 has superb CSD's even at extremely low volumes. Most headphones (even TOTL's) fall apart at low volumes.


----------



## joespride

CSD's ?? ToTl's not familiar with these  acronyms, please clarify


----------



## kapanak

joespride said:


> CSD's ?? not familiar with this acronym, please clarify


 
  
 Cumulative Spectral Decay.


----------



## joespride

kapanak said:


> Cumulative Spectral Decay.


 
 Thank you sir, to many acronym's in the world today


----------



## Taowolf51

joespride said:


> CSD's ?? ToTl's not familiar with these  acronyms, please clarify


 
 Cumulative spectral decay, also known as waterfall graphs. They are like frequency response graphs, but also include time (decay per frequency).
  
 They look like this.
  

  
 And TOTL means "Top of the Line".


----------



## Taowolf51

jazz said:


> There's a software implementation of Jan Meier's «Natural Crossfeed» for _foobar 2000_. I haven't tried it, but according to my experience with his Corda amps it should be good.


 
  
 I just tried this out, and it's pretty impressive! I really like it. My only problem is it seems to alter the frequency response pretty substantially, putting emphasis on portions of the treble and removing emphasis on the midrange. It makes things sound thin and snappy, which isn't bad per-se, but I'd rather it not affect FR. The soundstage is so much more natural, though.
  
 Have you noticed any FR changes with Meier's crossfeed in the Corda amps you tried?


----------



## joespride

Thanks for the clarification, I use Jriver MC20 and hey have a crossfeed feature as well, It certainly sound pretty nice however I also find it affects Freq response
  
 I keep going back and trying it, but it is short lived I much prefer SQ with out it enabled


----------



## JaZZ

taowolf51 said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > There's a software implementation of Jan Meier's «Natural Crossfeed» for _foobar 2000_. I haven't tried it, but according to my experience with his Corda amps it should be good.
> ...


 
  
 I just tried the plugin. Yes, that's the way the first version of Jan's crossfeed called «Natural Crossfeed» sounds: it makes the bass sound thinner. Newer Corda amps (Opera, Symphony, Concerto...) have a more sophisticated version (AFAIK withouth the «natural» in front) which barely alters the perceived frequency response and rougly sounds like the Hugo's. As I hear it, the crosstalk has a steeper low-pass filter, so more of the original stereo basis is preserved and the irritating components are nevertheless reduced (which makes it more natural than the «natural» crossfeed).


----------



## SearchOfSub

joespride said:


> More detailed initial impressions
> 
> Sennheiser HD800 in the house, My expectations were I would find a bright analytical can that was weak on bass with an out of the head soundstage. This is what I was expecting based on the hundreds of threads / reviews / comments...........My reason for wanting to try them was I wanted a better presentation / soundstage
> 
> ...





Does the HD800 atleast make you not claustrophobic like the closed cans? that's all I need. - I get claustrophobic with closed cans so I can't listen to them no matter how good they are. Can you give a comparison of the openness and soundstaging vs HE500 with foams removed on the outer grill? I have he-500 so I wil get idea. thanks,


----------



## Zoom25

searchofsub said:


> Does the HD800 atleast make you not claustrophobic like the closed cans? that's all I need. - I get claustrophobic with closed cans so I can't listen to them no matter how good they are. Can you give a comparison of the openness and soundstaging vs HE500 with foams removed on the outer grill? I have he-500 so I wil get idea. thanks,


 

 I found HE-500 to be claustrophobic because of their soundstage and lack of depth. The HD 800 improves in every aspect of soundstage over any HE-500 iteration.
  
 HD 800 aren't speakers, but they are the closest things I've heard to them. They should be far from claustrophobic though. When I have them without any music playing, I hear the ambience of the room exactly as I would without headphones.


----------



## thomascrown

searchofsub said:


> Does the HD800 atleast make you not claustrophobic like the closed cans? that's all I need. - I get claustrophobic with closed cans so I can't listen to them no matter how good they are. Can you give a comparison of the openness and soundstaging vs HE500 with foams removed on the outer grill? I have he-500 so I wil get idea. thanks,


 
 When I wear my pair, the only thing I can feel it's a very light pressure of the padding on my head, something like 2 wide rings around my ears, other than that it's like having the drivers suspended in the air.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

jazz said:


> I agree – crossfeed has even become mandatory for me.


 

 I had a crossfeed amp a long time ago with HD 580 headphones. I considered it for HD 800 headphones, but haven't because 1) the coloring of the sound worries me (I could already tell with my HD 580s, but was willing to live with it) and 2) the HD 800s sit a little forward from my ears, just wearing them normally, so it sounds a little bit more like the sound is coming from the front.


----------



## joespride

IMHO the HD800 is not a DRASTIC departure from the he500, are they better ?  YES NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.....................I am not good at describing things in audiophile terms, so I will try in my own way
  
 My 500's being fully modded are very nice and full bodied tend to lean warm with GREAT extension in bass, glorius liquid mids and somewhat rolled off highs, IMHO this causes a lack of clarity although you will not notice that lack of clarity till you compare them head to head with a can that does not have this lack of clarity
  
 The HD800 straight outta the box is crystal clear, has great bass with texture and impact, very nice natural mids and superb extension and clarity on the highs, balanced from top to bottom,  IMHO this character is what sets them apart and drives all the reviews stating best soundstage of any headphone, they are so clear things just seem open
  
 Claustrophobic is not a description I would use with either the 500 or the 800 and of the 2 the 800 would be less so, now when I wear mine with no music there is some very minor noise cancellation That is to be expected after all you have something covering your ears


----------



## JaZZ

birdmanofct said:


> I had a crossfeed amp a long time ago with HD 580 headphones. I considered it for HD 800 headphones, but haven't because 1) the coloring of the sound worries me (I could already tell with my HD 580s, but was willing to live with it) and 2) the HD 800s sit a little forward from my ears, just wearing them normally, so it sounds a little bit more like the sound is coming from the front.


 
  
 I need crossfeed because I can't stand one-sided bass signals. Primarily due to some strange ear resonances (some sort of hyperacusis maybe), but I consider them unnatural anyway and in the way of a plausible soundstage.


----------



## Taowolf51

Does anyone know of any software that allows for high quality crossfeed DSP with minimal frequency response alteration? I really love the boost to soundstage and imaging.


----------



## gevorg

taowolf51 said:


> Does anyone know of any software that allows for high quality crossfeed DSP with minimal frequency response alteration? I really love the boost to soundstage and imaging.




This one is pretty good with Foobar:

https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_dsp_meiercf

And another as a VST or AU:

https://www.112db.com/redline/monitor/


----------



## joespride

has anyone had an instance where the HD800 seems to reveal like mic feedback and other weird noises in various tracks of music ??
  
  
 I keep hearing things that are making me look for issues but Nothing is showing up as an issue with testing, I know the HD800 are MUCH more revealing but this is rediculas


----------



## BirdManOfCT

joespride said:


> has anyone had an instance where the HD800 seems to reveal like mic feedback and other weird noises in various tracks of music ??
> 
> 
> I keep hearing things that are making me look for issues but Nothing is showing up as an issue with testing, I know the HD800 are MUCH more revealing but this is rediculas


 

 Do you have specific tracks/albums? Wondering if it's QSound or something similar.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jazz said:


> I need crossfeed because I can't stand one-sided bass signals. Primarily due to some strange ear resonances (some sort of hyperacusis maybe), but I consider them unnatural anyway and in the way of a plausible soundstage.


 
  
 Also really helps with my Beatles Stereo CDs....the "stereo" isn't really stereo and sounded very "off". So I went and bought the mono versions instead. But since the Hugo TT arrived for my review, those earlier "unlistenable" Beatles stereo CDs (with vocals in one channel and instrumentation in the other) now are tolerable and even sometimes enjoyable.


----------



## insomnyteq

Help a newb out here guys. I have been delving into this Hobby a bit, and im trying to decide  if im at my end game opr not. Ill never spend the biog bucks for $1500+ headphones, but i am open to going as far as HD800s. However is there any reason to move off my El-8s for these? Im speaking from a pure enjoyment stand poitn, Comfort is big for me as i wera these literally all day (6-12hrs) so while the El8s are comfortable is , I tend to switch over to mt T90s case frankly they are the most comfortable thing ive ever worn, issue being that the i prefer the Sound fo the El8s. now it seems to me that the HD800s are the Holy grail to Mid tier hobbyists such as my self. 
  
 For reference my signal chain right now is an Aune 1xs   into either my EL8s or my T90s not gonna change the DAC?a,p side other than to add possibly this massdrop o2 amp i got as a pre amp occasionally just for the hell of it, but obv i dont even need any amp for the El8s and the T90s are driven quite fine from my Aune. 
  
  
 so should i change / or El-8s / t90s good enough for my given price range. ( obv im a bit of a name whore as well i guess, it sorta matters to me)
  
  
 thanks


----------



## moshen

insomnyteq said:


> Help a newb out here guys. I have been delving into this Hobby a bit, and im trying to decide  if im at my end game opr not. Ill never spend the biog bucks for $1500+ headphones, but i am open to going as far as HD800s. However is there any reason to move off my El-8s for these? Im speaking from a pure enjoyment stand poitn, Comfort is big for me as i wera these literally all day (6-12hrs) so while the El8s are comfortable is , I tend to switch over to mt T90s case frankly they are the most comfortable thing ive ever worn, issue being that the i prefer the Sound fo the El8s. now it seems to me that the HD800s are the Holy grail to Mid tier hobbyists such as my self.
> 
> For reference my signal chain right now is an Aune 1xs   into either my EL8s or my T90s not gonna change the DAC?a,p side other than to add possibly this massdrop o2 amp i got as a pre amp occasionally just for the hell of it, but obv i dont even need any amp for the El8s and the T90s are driven quite fine from my Aune.
> 
> ...


 
 Having directly compared the open EL-8 to the HD800, the HD800 are better in pretty much every way from my memory. The EL-8 sounded very rough, muffled and closed in after switching directly from the HD800. The HD800 are much more comfortable as well as being lighter.


----------



## SearchOfSub

Anyone compare to HE1000?


----------



## rayfalkner

Secondhand HD800 is far from $1500 price range, more like $900 - $1100.
HD800 is high on the comfortable list unless perhaps if you wear thick framed glasses (I use glasses too but with a thin frame) but then nothing that I know on the headphone market is really catered towards user with heavy glasses.
HD800 is far from "_mid-tier_", in fact it will punish many poor value (that is mid-fi-priced with low-fi technicality) mid-tier setup.
HD800 and so does many other flagships are akin to a blacksmith's finest swords, some are more merciful than the others but HD800 is not one of them. It's a ruthless one. It cleaves through your recordings exposing the gory insides- bad ones good ones, doesn't matter, HD800 will gut them all no mercy- but you also need to build a good swordsmanship (read: audio chain setup) too to properly wield it or you'll end up hurting yourself (physically, psychologically, and financially).
HD800 scales really well. You got one, you can then safely focus your budget into upgrading your chain and HD800 will carry its own weight through all of it. Think of it as an investment of some kind.
And I think since you said you're a bit new at the hobby, maybe asking yourself the question "Do I really need this? Am I sure to do this?" is appropriate, because for many people going 'up the tier' is bringing more stress compared to the gain of pleasure. You could fell into a spiral of "This one aspect here is lacking, that one is lacking too, the cable is not good, the usb is the weak link, the power cable is not made of NASA-grade materials, the connector is not made of 24k gold, bla bla bla", you could fell into the chasing gear mentality instead of what's important: enjoying your favorite musics in your favorite room on your favorite sofa.
  
 Quote:


insomnyteq said:


> Comfort is big for me
> it seems to me that the HD800s are the Holy grail to Mid tier hobbyists such as my self.
> my signal chain right now is an Aune 1xs
> add possibly this massdrop o2 amp i got as a pre amp occasionally


----------



## insomnyteq

great reply. thanks.
  
  
 Yeah i guess i imposed that $$ limit, and i was considering the HD800 as the top of that tier.  even though it can be had for less. I guess i called it mid tier as it seems to me that their is another step in quality  that  costs much more money, so id consider that TOP tier, but again these are self imposed labels.  I think the aune 1xs is as expensive a DAC i will ever buy, as it covers the ranges i use and i doubt there is much  more i could get out of another DAC amp combo for $300, therefore i consider that piece my end game for now, Do you feel like i will not get the best out of the HD800 with this? any other recommendations on that level? i suppose i could sell it and move to a better unit if such a thing exists at that Cost.


----------



## johnjen

macedonianhero said:


> Also really helps with my Beatles Stereo CDs....the "stereo" isn't really stereo and sounded very "off". So I went and bought the mono versions instead. But since the Hugo TT arrived for my review, those earlier "unlistenable" Beatles stereo CDs (with vocals in one channel and instrumentation in the other) now are tolerable and even sometimes enjoyable.


This trait of the old cruddy tracks sounding better also applies to the Rolling Stones albums. 
Perhaps even more so than the Beatles…

JJ


----------



## johnjen

joespride said:


> has anyone had an instance where the HD800 seems to reveal like mic feedback and other weird noises in various tracks of music ??
> 
> 
> I keep hearing things that are making me look for issues but Nothing is showing up as an issue with testing, I know the HD800 are MUCH more revealing but this is rediculas


Yes indeed.

800's are known as highly detail oriented, which means hearing the musicians drop something on the floor, or hearing the air handling system, or, or…

The amount of this and your ability to identify the noises for what they are are usually dependent upon the upstream system.

800's scale REALLY well.

JJ


----------



## johnjen

searchofsub said:


> Anyone compare to HE1000?


I had a chance to listen to HE1k's and while they are VERY smooth and VERY pleasant I missed the inner detail and precision of the 800's.

I think the single most descriptive term I associate with them is smooth, in multiple ways.

JJ


----------



## SearchOfSub

Can anyone tell me best solid state amp for he800? - I come to find out after countless times of buying and selling and losing money, tubes are just not for me.


----------



## HiFiChris

macedonianhero said:


> Also really helps with my Beatles Stereo CDs....the "stereo" isn't really stereo and sounded very "off". So I went and bought the mono versions instead.


 

 I was never able to stand those Beatles "stereo" ping-pong recordings - be it with speakers or headphones.


----------



## kapanak

johnjen said:


> I had a chance to listen to HE1k's and while they are VERY smooth and VERY pleasant I missed the inner detail and precision of the 800's.
> 
> I think the single most descriptive term I associate with them is smooth, in multiple ways.
> 
> JJ


 
  
 You're not alone in your impressions. The HEK are pleasant, but too smoothed over and polite.


rayfalkner said:


> Secondhand HD800 is far from $1500 price range, more like $900 - $1100.
> HD800 is high on the comfortable list unless perhaps if you wear thick framed glasses (I use glasses too but with a thin frame) but then nothing that I know on the headphone market is really catered towards user with heavy glasses.
> HD800 is far from "_mid-tier_", in fact it will punish many poor value (that is mid-fi-priced with low-fi technicality) mid-tier setup.
> *HD800 and so does many other flagships are akin to a blacksmith's finest swords, some are more merciful than the others but HD800 is not one of them. It's a ruthless one. It cleaves through your recordings exposing the gory insides- bad ones good ones, doesn't matter, HD800 will gut them all no mercy- but you also need to build a good swordsmanship (read: audio chain setup) too to properly wield it or you'll end up hurting yourself (physically, psychologically, and financially).*
> ...


 
  
 Great points! Also, one of the best metaphors I've seen for the HD800 and other TOTL headphones


----------



## johnjen

searchofsub said:


> Can anyone tell me best solid state amp for he800? - I come to find out after countless times of buying and selling and losing money, tubes are just not for me.


The BEST?

That's highly subjective.

I really like The Rok, but then I'm biased.
Of course if it didn't perform well I wouldn't suggest it.
AND
It requires that you make your 800's run in balanced mode to really make this amp sing.

JJ


----------



## johnjen

kapanak said:


> You're not alone in your impressions. The HEK are pleasant, but too smoothed over and polite.
> 
> Great points! Also, one of the best metaphors I've seen for the HD800 and other TOTL headphones


That was one of the things I noticed about the HE1k's, they were so smooth that it didn't seem to matter what drove them.
Which is great for some because they become much less system specific than 800's.
But also much less resolving.

And that *is* a great metaphor…

And because 800's scale so well they will improve along with the signal being fed them, but that’s the counterpoint in that sometimes they FORCE you to feed them a 'suitable' signal, either that or you sell them off .

It 'cuts' both ways… :atsmile:

JJ


----------



## Sorrodje

searchofsub said:


> Anyone compare to HE1000?


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/a/list-of-major-hifiman-he1000-reviews-impressions-and-videos  lot of useful read here;


----------



## johnjen

So is anyone else using the Sonarworks Plug-in?

I've been fussing with the controls for a bit now and after this last set of 'adjustments', this is THE BEST I have ever heard my 800's.
Period.

Their plug-in requires DSP to run so a s/w player is needed (I use Jriver) and the Ref 3 plug-in comes with 25 other headphone "average" compensation curves, along with several other Senns, such as the HD650, HD600 and a few others.
Check out the full list on their site if interested.

They can also measure your HP's for a 'custom curve' which is what I'm aiming for.
This custom curve actually measures each channel independent of the other for a true balancing of the output level for the entire 20-20K spectrum.
To within a claimed ±0.9dB.

If that is truly what can happen, that would be an astounding achievement, regardless of it being a speaker or a headphone.
THAT is channel gain matching.
Channel gain matching does wonderful things for the entire acoustic presentation in so many ways.

But having even this degree of FR accuracy (±3dB) on 800's is truly wonderful.
And really since my 800's are modded I can't even claim that tight of a FrqResponse match up.

I hope to perform an experiment with a modicum of measurement backing, AND wind up with hopefully Truly Flat response from 20 to 20K.

As it is you really should try this plug-in if you can.
It’s free to try for 21 days.
And I doubt many won’t wind up buying it.

And no I don't work for these guys.
In fact I've been a bit of a pain in their backside, what with all of my questions.
And to cap it all off they accommodated my rather odd request and as a result, this is THE BEST I've ever heard my 800's.

JJ


----------



## hekeli

Yap Sonarworks is the shtnitzz for a lazy EQ'er, zero fatique, also best quality bassboost I've heard with HD800. Doesn't mean you couldn't do similar things yourself, but I don't have to time mess around and learn FIR filters and stuff and try make them sound good. Alltogether the UI and complete package is very honed, this is one of the few software I'm willing to pay for.


----------



## johnjen

I have tried in the past to come up with an EQ that actually works and other than achieving a decent bass boost, nothing has come this close to being well 'balanced'.
And I'm probably not all that close, yet.

But thus far I'm VERY pleased with the results.

And I figure those with stock 800's might get results that are within that ±3dB window.
And for the price this is the single best improvement with but a very few exceptions.

JJ


----------



## TokenGesture

Sonar works sounds interesting but I have no idea what it 'plugs in' to... Im using iTunes/Amarra, will that work? I downloaded the free trial installer and nothing happens after restart...


----------



## johnjen

I'm not familiar enough with Amarra to know if it deals with DSP internally, or not.
But I think it does support DSP.

But that is what the plug-in plugs into, DSP (Digital Signal Processing).

And once Ref 3 is installed into DSP then you load the specific compensation curve for your headphones inside the plug-in and away you go.

JJ


----------



## SearchOfSub

I am not getting download link and it's been 30 mins since signed up - I've also used dsp programs for my speakers in the past and it improved bass but always degraded transparency..


----------



## joespride

joespride said:


> has anyone had an instance where the HD800 seems to reveal like mic feedback and other weird noises in various tracks of music ??
> 
> 
> I keep hearing things that are making me look for issues but Nothing is showing up as an issue with testing, I know the HD800 are MUCH more revealing but this is rediculas


 
 Below is an explination I recieved from another forum and it makes sense
  
"You're likely listening to line noise in the recordings: generally speaking, 50/100 Hz in the EU and the rest of the "old world", 60/120 Hz in the Americas--wherever the recording was originally made.  I find that I'm using notch filters on about every third track to remove low level hum that is spread laterally across the Spectrogram log(f) view at low level.  Often times, the noise is on one channel but not the other channel.  I also see a lot of instances of 25 Hz (EU) and 30 Hz (Americas) subharmonics in these recordings.  This noise is not limited to just a certain class of recordings, but rather it seems to invade almost every disc that I own.  A lot of the time, the noise shows up on the spectrograms once I restore the bass to each track, something that the mastering guys left there as an artifact of not actually cleaning up the recording and mixing processes.
 
The most interesting thing that I've found is that once you remove the hum using extremely narrow notch filters (Q=20), the track seems to get much more transparent and open in the exposed sections, even though the hum wasn't really audible beforehand.  I'm going to have to read up on my psychoacoustics texts on this phenomenon to further understand this.
 
If you use Audacity, you can easily clean up your recordings from line noise--free of charge.  All you have to do is to bring up your ripped tracks under the Spectrogram log(f) view, and you can see it.  Then after you apply a notch, you can see the effects of that notch on both the Spectrogram log(f) view and on the "Plot Spectrum" views for the entire track.
 
Chris"
 
 
The HD800 is Brutal in its retrieval of information, I have had and heard some speakers the cost over $30,000.00 with sensitivity up over 110 db 1 watt at 1 meter running amps that were $20,000.00 and the detail retrieval was crap compared to these things...........Albums I have long used as reference and considered superb recordings now have all type of noise even my 
Chesky Ultimate Ears demo.............all this is apparent using mid / low level dacs......Bifrost uber & MHDT Havana,  Looks like uber may have to get the multi bit upgrade for an endgame setup
I can not see nor would I want any further detail retrieval as  it would just equal destraction at some point


----------



## Dadracer

sorrodje said:


> searchofsub said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone compare to HE1000?
> ...


 
 There's also a big comparison test going on over at Tylls Innerfidelity site where a group of folk have done a series of tests on HE 1000 vs LCD3 vs Abyss vs Mr Speakers vs Stax 009 vs HD 800s and also with a wide variety of the top headphone amps and DACs which all makes fascinating reading and especially if you work out which headphone has had highest overall marks!!!


----------



## Sorrodje

Yup . Innerfidelity's Big sound 2015 is a fascinating experience and deserve much praise indeed.  Tyll's work has always been fantastic IMO but what he just did there is absolutely stellar.


----------



## RudeWolf

searchofsub said:


> I am not getting download link and it's been 30 mins since signed up - I've also used dsp programs for my speakers in the past and it improved bass but always degraded transparency..


 
  
 PM me the e-mail address you signed up with. I'll get you everything you need to get going!


----------



## headwhacker

All the tallk that this phone is bass lite and thin is far from what my ears can here. Although, maybe it's true Sennheiser change the bass on later batches (21xxx). But this can is far from bass lite.


----------



## Dadracer

sorrodje said:


> Yup . Innerfidelity's Big sound 2015 is a fascinating experience and deserve much praise indeed.  Tyll's work has always been fantastic IMO but what he just did there is absolutely stellar.


 
 It is/was clearly a massive undertaking and Tyll should be congratulated along with all the other contributors. I am hanging on like crazy for his final concluding statements to have an overall wrap up. It must be the biggest in depth TOTL headphones review since David Mahler did that mega 50 + battle of the flagships a couple of years back.


----------



## rawrster

searchofsub said:


> Can anyone tell me best solid state amp for he800? - I come to find out after countless times of buying and selling and losing money, tubes are just not for me.


 
  
 The best I've heard would be the Headamp GSX mk2. I own a Auralic Taurus which comes second however I've never had them both side by side to see how big (or small) a difference they are but they do seem to be in the same playing field.


----------



## HiAudio

Which balanced cable is good for the HD800?
  
 Sennheiser cable is around $380 I found the ZY HIFI at amazon cost only $160 but I am not sure if it good enough. It's said the cable is pretty thin used on the HD650. They use same cable for both. I don't want to compromise the headphone's capability. 
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MTB71SW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=A2Q0JVLI22BSVA
  
 p.s. if you are looking at HDVA600, it's on sale now at amazon, $1184. I regret I bought it last month from different dealer.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

HiAudio there are a lot of folks on the thread, including myself who love the Norne Audio Draug 2. 

On another note, just did the Innerfidelity mod this morning. Expected the slightly tamed top end, didn't expect the significant improvement on the soundstage and imaging within the stage, wow!

Joeseph glad to see you picked up an HD800, it should be an excellent match with your Kenzie!


----------



## shultzee

hiaudio said:


> Which balanced cable is good for the HD800?
> 
> Sennheiser cable is around $380 I found the ZY HIFI at amazon cost only $160 but I am not sure if it good enough. It's said the cable is pretty thin used on the HD650. They use same cable for both. I don't want to compromise the headphone's capability.
> 
> ...


 

 I am using Charleston Cable Co.,  mid tier balanced for hd 800 (Cardas) and am very happy with it.


----------



## joespride

wildcatsare1 said:


> @HiAudio there are a lot of folks on the thread, including myself who love the Norne Audio Draug 2.
> 
> On another note, just did the Innerfidelity mod this morning. Expected the slightly tamed top end, didn't expect the significant improvement on the soundstage and imaging within the stage, wow!
> 
> Joeseph glad to see you picked up an HD800, it should be an excellent match with your Kenzie!


 
 Kevin, Thank You
  
 It is superb I have been floored by the detail, clarity, and resolution of the 500, The Kenzie made the HE500 sound good It makes the HD800 sound superb I cant see anyone looking for more in an amp to pair with the Senns.................
  
 There is no turning back the HE500's will be up for sale by the end of the day


----------



## Wildcatsare1

joespride said:


> Kevin, Thank You
> 
> It is superb I have been floored by the detail, clarity, and resolution of the 500, The Kenzie made the HE500 sound good It makes the HD800 sound superb I cant see anyone looking for more in an amp to pair with the Senns.................
> 
> There is no turning back the HE500's will be up for sale by the end of the day




My 560s are on the way to a new owner as well. I really enjoyed the HE1000 when I had it in the house, just not a $1,500 difference. 

You weren't tempted to upgrade one of your Uber Bifrosts? I figured why not, then I can do a little R2R shootout with my Monarchy PCM63K DAC.


----------



## joespride

as soon as the he500 sells i will be going multibit also with the uber i recently picked up, The metrum never settled in IMHO it was way to bright analytical and thin, it had tons of detail, It was the reason i considered selling everything and going back to roots,  Lucky enough though it sold and I was able to get a Havana and a bifrost uber for the same price gained on the sale
  
 I can listen to havana while bifrost gets the goods......................Hope you vacation went well
  
 Joe


----------



## Wildcatsare1

joespride said:


> as soon as the he500 sells i will be going multibit also with the uber i recently picked up, The metrum never settled in IMHO it was way to bright analytical and thin, it had tons of detail, It was the reason i considered selling everything and going back to roots,  Lucky enough though it sold and I was able to get a Havana and a bifrost uber for the same price gained on the sale
> 
> I can listen to havana while bifrost gets the goods......................Hope you vacation went well
> 
> Joe




Went well, very happy to be back in the States though. Love my Family in Ukraine but it's good to be home! 

Look forward to hearing how the Havana compares to the Bimby!


----------



## HiAudio

OK, since you have both the HD 800 and HE 1000, how do you compare the two when they are hooked up to the same DAC and Amp? I know they are different types of phones. I have a long term plan to have one Planar Magnet phone, HE 1000 is too expensive and HE 500 no longer available at $500. I will live with my HD 800 quite a long time.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

hiaudio said:


> OK, since you have both the HD 800 and HE 1000, how do you compare the two when they are hooked up to the same DAC and Amp? I know they are different types of phones. I have a long term plan to have one Planar Magnet phone, HE 1000 is too expensive and HE 500 no longer available at $500. I will live with my HD 800 quite a long time.


 
 I only had the HE1000 for a week, thought long and hard about it, but decided my Daughter's braces were/are a higher priority 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 
  
 Yes same amp and DAC, the Taurus Mk.2 is fantastic with both headphones.


----------



## joespride

Got my Freq Response  graph today looks good to me


----------



## BirdManOfCT

joespride said:


> Got my Freq Response  graph today looks good to me


 

 Congrats! Can you post the chart here as well:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/433059/sennheiser-hd800-certificate-for-frequency-response-arrived


----------



## joespride

Happily,  It is there now


----------



## Oregonian

searchofsub said:


> Can anyone tell me best solid state amp for he800? - I come to find out after countless times of buying and selling and losing money, tubes are just not for me.


 

 Honestly have not heard any dedicated headphone amps but my vote is for vintage.  Out of my Pioneer Spec system the HD800's are incredible with plenty of bass.


----------



## moshen

hiaudio said:


> OK, since you have both the HD 800 and HE 1000, how do you compare the two when they are hooked up to the same DAC and Amp? I know they are different types of phones. I have a long term plan to have one Planar Magnet phone, HE 1000 is too expensive and HE 500 no longer available at $500. I will live with my HD 800 quite a long time.


 

 I have both. The HE1000 is sort of what I'd imagine what a future HD850 to be. It retains the technicalities of the HD800 (clarity, imaging, separation soundstage) but with warmer tone, more bass extension and a less accentuated treble. It's a smoother sound than the HD800 which may or may not be a preference. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to keep the HD800.


----------



## devilboy

joespride said:


> as soon as the he500 sells i will be going multibit also with the uber i recently picked up, The metrum never settled in IMHO it was way to bright analytical and thin, it had tons of detail, It was the reason i considered selling everything and going back to roots,  Lucky enough though it sold and I was able to get a Havana and a bifrost uber for the same price gained on the sale
> 
> I can listen to havana while bifrost gets the goods......................Hope you vacation went well
> 
> Joe


Metrum was too bright, analytical and thin? Wow. I have an octave and use it for my HD 800 with a Woo WA2. It is currently only being used in the headphone set up but when it was also used in my main rig, I have never thought it bright, analytical or thin, even with my HD 800. 
But hey, different strokes............


----------



## HiAudio

moshen said:


> I have both. The HE1000 is sort of what I'd imagine what a future HD850 to be. It retains the technicalities of the HD800 (clarity, imaging, separation soundstage) but with warmer tone, more bass extension and a less accentuated treble. It's a smoother sound than the HD800 which may or may not be a preference. I haven't decided yet if I'm going to keep the HD800.


 
  
 WOW, sounds good. If possible, I think it's good to keep both. My long term plan is to have one of the best of each of the three types.


----------



## joespride

devilboy said:


> Metrum was too bright, analytical and thin? Wow. I have an octave and use it for my HD 800 with a Woo WA2. It is currently only being used in the headphone set up but when it was also used in my main rig, I have never thought it bright, analytical or thin, even with my HD 800.
> But hey, different strokes............


 
 I know there are dozens and dozens of threads discussing this very thing, and the reputation was why I decided to try the octave, NOS tending warm
  
 in my setup with the Kenzie I just could not get past it, it drove me nuts, I could barely listen for an hour and fatigue set in, then I got to the point I would go days without listening because the sound was flat and un involving
  
 Maybe mine was an oddity or perhaps not fully broken in, original owner said he put 50 to 60 hours on it ad I know I put at least another 50 praying it would mellow and it never developed to a stage I could live with


----------



## RUMAY408

I felt the HE1000 was smoother with my amp (GS-Xmk2) than the HD800, but hard to justify at double the cost.


----------



## HiAudio

rumay408 said:


> I felt the HE1000 was smoother with my amp (GS-Xmk2) than the HD800, but hard to justify at double the cost.


 
  
 Unfortunately there is a trend that newer flagship headphones are asking higher and higher price, HE 1000 at 3k and LCD 4 at 4k. I don't know their sales volume of previous flagship phones and what their projected sales of new ones. Maybe they are relative small players in terms of sales volume so they need to sell it at higher price. I don't have data to prove anything. But as consumer most people do feel they are asking a price too high. So when Sennheiser release next flagship, HD850 or HD900 or HD1000 whatever, I hope they will not take the approach as HIFIMan or AUDEZE did asking intimidating price. Say of the next Sennheiser is on par of the HE 1000 and LCD 4, I hope it's priced between 2000 and 2500.
  
 Headphone is really an interesting industry. The newer and better ones are priced higher and higher. Remember the flat screen tv of plasma and LCD started to be available at market? They were 3k-6k about 10 years ago. They become better and better and the price become lower and lower. OK, they are different products and mass sales support the price drop. But it's interesting if you think about the two products.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

hiaudio said:


> Unfortunately there is a trend that newer flagship headphones are asking higher and higher price, HE 1000 at 3k and LCD 4 at 4k. I don't know their sales volume of previous flagship phones and what their projected sales of new ones. Maybe they are relative small players in terms of sales volume so they need to sell it at higher price. I don't have data to prove anything. But as consumer most people do feel they are asking a price too high. So when Sennheiser release next flagship, HD850 or HD900 or HD1000 whatever, I hope they will not take the approach as HIFIMan or AUDEZE did asking intimidating price. Say of the next Sennheiser is on par of the HE 1000 and LCD 4, I hope it's priced between 2000 and 2500.
> 
> Headphone is really an interesting industry. The newer and better ones are priced higher and higher. Remember the flat screen tv of plasma and LCD started to be available at market? They were 3k-6k about 10 years ago. They become better and better and the price become lower and lower. OK, they are different products and mass sales support the price drop. But it's interesting if you think about the two products.


 



 Hype in marketing fuels the prices.

 I am with you in that fervent hope that Sennheiser does not follow suit.


----------



## kapanak

sp3llv3xit said:


> Hype in marketing fuels the prices.
> 
> I am with you in that fervent hope that Sennheiser does not follow suit.


 
  
 That depends on what you consider Sennheiser's flagship. The new Orpheus coming out in November, or the successor to the HD800.
  
 Because, we all know the new Orpheus will be in the five digits just for the headphones alone, and that's assuming they sell headphones alone at all (and not paired only with the matching amp).


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Quote: 





kapanak said:


> That depends on what you consider Sennheiser's flagship. The new Orpheus coming out in November, or the successor to the HD800.
> 
> Because, we all know the new Orpheus will be in the five digits just for the headphones alone, and that's assuming they sell headphones alone at all (and not paired only with the matching amp).


 


 Commercially available, mass-produced flagship, then.

 HE90 is a collector's item.

 I've heard it.  Let's just say I prefer my beer to the Cognac.


----------



## HiAudio

kapanak said:


> That depends on what you consider Sennheiser's flagship. The new Orpheus coming out in November, or the successor to the HD800.
> 
> Because, we all know the new Orpheus will be in the five digits just for the headphones alone, and that's assuming they sell headphones alone at all (and not paired only with the matching amp).


 
  
 If it's Orpheus caliber and ahs very limited production, 5 digits are fine. But, hope it's not very limited edition. It does not make much sense to limit its production. When they made the Orpheus there was a strong experimental sense that they wanted to create one heck of product without considering cost and probably little to no concern of providing a fine product to mass consumers. Now it's a different time and they don't need to do the same or phase 2 experiment. Even it's on par of Orpheus or even better, if they can increase it production from 300 to 30000, its sale price can be much lower than 5 digits.


----------



## Zoom25

GS-X mk2 or Ragnarok for HD 800?


----------



## thomascrown

zoom25 said:


> GS-X mk2 or Ragnarok for HD 800?


 
  
 here there is an interesting opinion about them: 
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-wrap-my-take-headphone-amps#cmmlApFVI4r77vD6.97


----------



## nepherte

FWIW I've heard both amplifiers and very much preferred the GS-X mk2 (and bought it afterwards). The strong points of the HD800 are imo neutrality and resolution, all of which are traits of the HeadAmp as well. However, a lot of people actually prefer the opposite to tame the treble on the HD800. It's up to you to find out to what camp you belong.


----------



## Zoom25

I've been really happy with the HD 800 so far on my setup. I'm slowly working to perfect my rig with end game components annually. I'm more than fine with the digital components I have. If I were to get a TOTL headphone amplifier, it'd need to have two things:
  
 1) Synergy with HD 800. I don't really care for any other headphone out there at the moment besides the SR-009. However, the Stax needs an estat amp, so it's not a concern in amp selection.
  
 2) Top notch pre-amp - If I were to go with the GS-X mk2, I'd definitely get the DACT. The 430HA is also interesting in this regards.
  
 Previously, when I was considering the GS-X I really didn't want to wait half a year to a full year for the amp. Although, this time around I think I'd be fine with the wait, provided it's the best in its class.
  
 Also, no tubes. I'm not even remotely interested in dealing with tubes and trying to learn what all the damn numbers mean. With solid state, I enjoy the simplicity of plug and play. No changing tubes or having to worry about over heating and warm up times.
  
 Is GS-X mk2 the best solid state amp for the HD 800 currently in production? I remember hearing about Dynahi and related stuff before - but not interested in further complicating with DIY stuff and finding people to do make you one. The GS-X production process is about as far as I'll go off from commercially available purchases.


----------



## Zoom25

On a side note, are the HE-1000 really that big!? They make the GS-X stack look like a portable Fiio rig...I thought the HD 800 were big.


----------



## nepherte

zoom25 said:


> On a side note, are the HE-1000 really that big!? They make the GS-X stack look like a portable Fiio rig...I thought the HD 800 were big.


 
 Yes, the HE-1000 are pretty big. To put things in perspective, the GS-X mk2 is definitely not the largest amp around. The Big Sound 2015 video's on Innerfidelity might give you a better idea on how large it is.


----------



## nepherte

zoom25 said:


> 1) Synergy with HD 800. I don't really care for any other headphone out there at the moment besides the SR-009. However, the Stax needs an estat amp, so it's not a concern in amp selection.


 
  
 I certainly think the synergy is great with the HD800 for the reasons I just mentioned earlier. I care for neutrality, non-colouring sound. In that regard, I consider the GS-X mk2 like a transparent medium between me and my music. And in fact, I've chosen all other components in my system to have these traits. (Note that some might find this not desirable at all.)
  


zoom25 said:


> 2) Top notch pre-amp - If I were to go with the GS-X mk2, I'd definitely get the DACT. The 430HA is also interesting in this regards.


 
  
 Yup. It could act as a good pre-amp, since those need to be transparent above all. I can't really comment on how good a pre-amp this is. I don't use it for that purpose, nor have I listened to other pre-amps.


zoom25 said:


> Previously, when I was considering the GS-X I really didn't want to wait half a year to a full year for the amp. Although, this time around I think I'd be fine with the wait, provided it's the best in its class.


 
  
 I waited about 4 months. And now it might be considerably less. Depending on the color you prefer, he might actually have them in stock. Don't take my word for it though.
  
  


zoom25 said:


> Is GS-X mk2 the best solid state amp for the HD 800 currently in production? I remember hearing about Dynahi and related stuff before - but not interested in further complicating with DIY stuff and finding people to do make you one. The GS-X production process is about as far as I'll go off from commercially available purchases.


 
  
 It probably isn't, but I couldn't tell you which one is. There are definitely other amplifiers out there that have very good synergy with the HD800. I've read some positive comments about the Teton, but haven't listened to it. Many of the Kevin Gilmore designs are supposedly good as well, but it's hard to find a commercial builder for them. Note that the GS-X is actually based on one of his designs.
  
 I suggest you also look for feedback about other amplifiers beside the GS-X. Only looking at one side of the medal is never a good thing. If you have the chance to audition any of them, even better. Perhaps consider going to a meet?


----------



## punit

zoom25 said:


> GS-X mk2 or Ragnarok for HD 800?


 
 You might also consider A GD M9.


----------



## drez

I'm not sure I would call GSX mkii totally neutral/transparent.  Both times I demo'd I heard boomy bass, strident highs, and a yellowish tonality.  Rag or M9 were both to me more neutral and transparent.
  
 Still was demo so take with grain of salt.
  
 EDIT: Could be semantic issue.  Anyway I feel compelled to not sound like I'm pooping on the GSX mkii.  It was very detailed, fast, dynamic.  But didn't disappear or sound natural in my limited experience.


----------



## preproman

In my "two time" ownership of the GS-X mk2. IMO it's the most transparent amp I've heard, next to the First Watt F1J.  Others might take the transparency as a negative because it does not hide any flaws.  
  
 If your DAC and recorded material is up to par, the GS-X MK2 does a really good job of getting out the way.  More than another "headphone" amp I've heard.
  
 Lots of people will have different findings on different rigs with different levels of recorded material.  The GS-X mk2 made me up my recorded material game.


----------



## pumpe19

Ok guys, I reached my personal HiFi summit (fortunately for my wallet, the next summits on the horizon are still well hidden in thick clouds).

 Maybe you read my last posts about the dac/amp setups I auditioned.
 Lastly, I gave the Ifi Micro a go (which got great reviews, here and elsewhere on the net). However, at the end it wasn’t for me. All the “Gimmicks” like XBass, 3D-Sound and even the filters hat mostly negative effects on the sound. When in normal mode I had to put the volume at least to 50% for low listening levels. Turbo mode was out of the question, because it caused the sound to be overdriven. And - even if it’s purely superficial - for a device that costs nearly 600EUR it didn’t feel that great. At least not to me. There’s nothing wrong the overall build quality, I just felt a bit “cheap”. On the plus side, you get an insane amount of accessories (all kinds of cables, pouch, straps,…).
 Keep in mind that I feed my HD800s with die Ifi, so this might be a somewhat unsuitable combination. They might work great with other phones.
  
 But now for the setup I settled with (if you’re interested for the other amps/dacs I tested, check my previous posts):

 Ultraviolet 7 USB 2.0 -> Musical Fidelity MX-DAC -> Straight Wire Rhapsody S XLR (balanced) -> Musical Fidelity MX-HPA -> stock, unbalanced cable -> Sennheiser HD800

 There are, and there will be records which just won’t sound good with the HD800s. That’s a fact.
 These phones don’t play nice with everyone. But when they do,….it’s just a thing of beauty.
 Once I came to this conclusion, I really started enjoying the HD800s. No constant, subconscious nagging pushing me to search for a “jack of all trades” - headphone. Furthermore, I stopped searching for amps/dacs which would tame the HD800s, changing their sonic characteristics too much.
 There is a reason I fell in love them in the first place. Changing that and make them cater to every record I have would take too much away from what makes them so special to me.

 So, that’s it, settled for now (maybe some nice balanced XLR cables for the HD800 in the foreseeable future) and just enjoying my music.
  
 Apropos music: I am having a blast with the Roon (+TIDAL Hifi) software. Really made me wonder, why it took so long for someone to figure it out. Yesterday I started listening to Nina Simon and ended up with the rediscovery of the amazing album “check your head” by the Beasty Boys. And on the way I (re)discovered so much great music. That’s actually what Roon does, it doesn’t guide you per se, I just gives so much options, showing you new connections between artists, tracks, albums. Like a long day at your favorite record store.
  
 Cheers,
 Pumpe19


----------



## SearchOfSub

preproman said:


> In my "two time" ownership of the GS-X mk2. IMO it's the most transparent amp I've heard, next to the First Watt F1J.  Others might take the transparency as a negative because it does not hide any flaws.
> 
> If your DAC and recorded material is up to par, the GS-X MK2 does a really good job of getting out the way.  More than another "headphone" amp I've heard.
> 
> Lots of people will have different findings on different rigs with different levels of recorded material.  The GS-X mk2 made me up my recorded material game.





wish I had the money - thinking of just settling with used hugo.


----------



## SearchOfSub

Anyone try HD800 with Eximus DP-1?


----------



## vc1187

searchofsub said:


> Anyone try HD800 with Eximus DP-1?




Straight out of the built in headphone amp? Yes. It's not terrible, but you won't think it's anything special. I'd classify it as mediocre at best


----------



## yellowblue

searchofsub said:


> Anyone try HD800 with Eximus DP-1?


 
 I had both and they had a fine synergy (especially with the bass-boost function of the Eximus) . The Eximus was really sweet sounding and I liked the headphone out more than a Violectric V200. Can you get the Eximus for a good price - then it will be a nice deal. Even if it was some years ago the Eximus was top notch in its pricerange.


----------



## joespride

searchofsub said:


> wish I had the money - thinking of just settling with used hugo.


 
 Settle for used Hugo ?? unless I have missed something the Hugo used is around 15 -2000.00
  
 Thats a pretty decent budget for a huge selection of gear that has numerous posts stating how well they pair with HD800....................why on earth settle, when I settle I become disgusted and sooner rather than later look to change up
  
 for 2000ish you could be sporting a Kenzie and bifrost multibit which pairs superbly with HD800, and allows room for experimentation, if you use an all in 1 and love it great, if something is irritating how do you decide if it is the amp / gain stage or the dac ??


----------



## rawrster

I see the Hugo at 2,500 or so new which is plenty of budget for a good dac and amp. My entire HD800 setup including the headphones was slightly over that amount and while I don't have the best HD800 rig I do consider it to be pretty good.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

rumay408 said:


> I felt the HE1000 was smoother with my amp (GS-Xmk2) than the HD800, but hard to justify at double the cost.




Randy, my sentiments exactly, I really enjoyed the HEK, but couldn't justify the costs. Maybe the HE-X will be a complimentary can to the 800.


----------



## MickeyVee

x2 for me with the McIntosh MHA100/MXA70.  Just cannot justify the cost of the HE1K. Still, the HD800 is as close to king (at least in the Royal Court) of the headphones as you can get. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Something I can definitely live with!
 Quote:


rumay408 said:


> I felt the HE1000 was smoother with my amp (GS-Xmk2) than the HD800, but hard to justify at double the cost.


----------



## joespride

HD800 receives its highest praise to date
  
 I go get the Boys off the Bus while away wife listens to the set-up, I get Home wife comes out and tells me "We are trading Headphones" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This from a woman that for the last 15 years being together has always looked at Audio with disregard, I am not talking about crap audio either some systems running as much as $30,000.00 used prices.................The most I was ever able to extract from her was " yea it's nice"
  
 also HD800's LOVE Ryan Adams


----------



## joespride

I am starting to worry,  I honestly cant seem to turn this system off everything is just so damn good......................Rodrigo Y Gabriela is superb,  I decided I would play around a bit with the JRMC built in parametric EQ using the freq response graph I boosted by 1.5 at 60 and 80 hz, and subtracted 1.5 db at 5,6, and 7 Khz it does take a bit of the edge off and yet the senns remain crazy detailed and revealing
  
 I have been on a quest to hear the TOTL cans for grado, Audeze and Senn, I have not even thought about the others once I dialed the system in  Does that make the 800's end game ?
  
 I frankly hope so, just set back and enjoy now without the nagging question could this get better  ( I am starting to sound like a fanboy)


----------



## MacedonianHero

drez said:


> I'm not sure I would call GSX mkii totally neutral/transparent.  Both times I demo'd I heard boomy bass, strident highs, and a yellowish tonality.  Rag or M9 were both to me more neutral and transparent.
> 
> Still was demo so take with grain of salt.
> 
> EDIT: Could be semantic issue.  Anyway I feel compelled to not sound like I'm pooping on the GSX mkii.  It was very detailed, fast, dynamic.  But didn't disappear or sound natural in my limited experience.


 
 And what DAC was it played with? The GS-X Mk2 / HD800 is the best I've heard the HD800s out of any SS amp (and yes, I've heard the Rag...which I thought was quite good, but lacked extracting the inner details of the GS-X). I find the GS-Mk2 a microscope on what's upstream...get that right and hold on to your socks!


----------



## drez

macedonianhero said:


> And what DAC was it played with? The GS-X Mk2 / HD800 is the best I've heard the HD800s out of any SS amp (and yes, I've heard the Rag...which I thought was quite good, but lacked extracting the inner details of the GS-X). I find the GS-Mk2 a microscope on what's upstream...get that right and hold on to your socks!




This was with Invicta and Yggy. But yeah meet/demo conditions, not my own gear. It would be quite a coincidence if both DAC's had those characteristics but its possible.

Which DAC's did you find to pair well with gsx and hd 800?


----------



## MacedonianHero

drez said:


> This was with Invicta and Yggy. But yeah meet/demo conditions, not my own gear. It would be quite a coincidence if both DAC's had those characteristics but its possible.
> 
> Which DAC's did you find to pair well with gsx and hd 800?


 
  
 I really, really like the Metrum Hex and I'm really digging my review sample of the Hugo TT. Please note that the HD800s are bright headphones by nature and an amp that makes them sound "dark" has some strong colourations. The Bryston BDA-2 was great too, but did have an edge up top. That's the issue I've found with the GS-X Mk2...it will really let you know what's coming in without hiding it...the good, bad and even ugly.


----------



## Zoom25

nepherte said:


> I certainly think the synergy is great with the HD800 for the reasons I just mentioned earlier. *I care for neutrality, non-colouring sound*. In that regard, I consider the GS-X mk2 like a transparent medium between me and my music. And in fact, I've chosen all other components in my system to have these traits. (Note that some might find this not desirable at all.)
> 
> 
> Yup. It could act as a good pre-amp, since those need to be transparent above all. I can't really comment on how good a pre-amp this is. I don't use it for that purpose, nor have I listened to other pre-amps.


 
  
 Same. My current studio gear is definitely in line with that. I just want to see how far I can improve the sound while retaining the neutrality.
  
 BTW, would like to hear comments from others on the DACT pre-amp of GS-X.


----------



## SearchOfSub

I spoke to a local dealer and he said he heard the hd800 with alot of setups because he's been to many many audio shows and said hd800 sounds best with the Ayre amp. Don't know what model yet, will find out tommorow.


----------



## nepherte

zoom25 said:


> BTW, would like to hear comments from others on the DACT pre-amp of GS-X.


 
  
 Note that just because the DACT is more expensive, doesn't mean it's automatically better. I would say it's different. If you need a very fine grained volume control, then the DACT is probably not for you. To give you an example, I've got a DAC that outputs 6.2 Vrms balanced. With my HD800, under normal conditions, the volume know hardly goes over 9 o'clock with gain set to low. The usable range is hence reduced to about a quarter of the turn radius of the volume knob. If you care about very accurate channel matching, then I'd say the DACT is your best bet.


----------



## SearchOfSub

joespride said:


> Settle for used Hugo ?? unless I have missed something the Hugo used is around 15 -2000.00
> 
> Thats a pretty decent budget for a huge selection of gear that has numerous posts stating how well they pair with HD800....................why on earth settle, when I settle I become disgusted and sooner rather than later look to change up
> 
> for 2000ish you could be sporting a Kenzie and bifrost multibit which pairs superbly with HD800, and allows room for experimentation, if you use an all in 1 and love it great, if something is irritating how do you decide if it is the amp / gain stage or the dac ??







rawrster said:


> I see the Hugo at 2,500 or so new which is plenty of budget for a good dac and amp. My entire HD800 setup including the headphones was slightly over that amount and while I don't have the best HD800 rig I do consider it to be pretty good.





well, I'm looking at Hugo for about $1,600.00 used - looked up gs-x mk2 and it's going for $2,600.00. I had Hugo before and it sounded good to me and didn't feel any need to upgrade. So willing to settle for a lesser costing gear, not necessarily lesser sounding. 

Or, I have a local deal I can get for hd800 - hdvd800 - Senns balanced cable for hd800 for $2,300.00


don't know yet..


----------



## Zoom25

nepherte said:


> Note that just because the DACT is more expensive, doesn't mean it's automatically better. I would say it's different. If you need a very fine grained volume control, then the DACT is probably not for you. To give you an example, I've got a DAC that outputs 6.2 Vrms balanced. With my HD800, under normal conditions, the volume know hardly goes over 9 o'clock with gain set to low. The usable range is hence reduced to about a quarter of the turn radius of the volume knob. *If you care about very accurate channel matching, then I'd say the DACT is your best bet.*


 
  
 Yup, precisely why I want to go with DACT. Not so much for the headphones, but rather for the pre-amps.


----------



## drez

macedonianhero said:


> I really, really like the Metrum Hex and I'm really digging my review sample of the Hugo TT. Please note that the HD800s are bright headphones by nature and an amp that makes them sound "dark" has some strong colourations. The Bryston BDA-2 was great too, but did have an edge up top. That's the issue I've found with the GS-X Mk2...it will really let you know what's coming in without hiding it...the good, bad and even ugly.




Hex probably matches well. I think it was less aggressive (sharp) trainsiets than Invicta from brief demo. M9 and Rag are probably doing same thing being slightly smooth to counter the aggression of HD 800. I can't get Hugo TT and GSX mkii in same store here unfortunately. Maybe I could demo by itself to get some idea but It's out of my price range tbh.


----------



## SearchOfSub

Heard the HD800 today and I'm just wondering how some justify the price for this headphones made for movies. It's analytical and not musical at all. Audioquest Nighthawk trumps it (if you plan on listening to music on your headphones) and it's only fraction of the cost.


----------



## joespride

HD800 is not made for listening to movies, where did you see it written that HD800 is for movies ??  It was designed to be a TOTL Headphone for audiophiles.  Sennheisers description linked
  
 http://en-us.sennheiser.com/dynamic-headphones-high-end-around-ear-hd-800
  
  
 I have not heard many speakers or headphones that serve both duties of audio and movies with equal quality, Movies have some incredible peaks and valleys in there audio


----------



## SearchOfSub

I actually named hd800 - Made for movies. It's more like a headphone made for detail-ocd people. With its hefty price tag it has zero musicality to my ears. Even HD650 sounds much more musical than hd800.


----------



## Thenewguy007

searchofsub said:


> Heard the HD800 today and I'm just wondering how some justify the price for this headphones made for movies. It's analytical and not musical at all. Audioquest Nighthawk trumps it (if you plan on listening to music on your headphones) and it's only fraction of the cost.


 
  
  
 What amp/dac did you you to listen to the HD800.


----------



## joespride

searchofsub said:


> I actually named hd800 - Made for movies. It's more like a headphone made for detail-ocd people. With its hefty price tag it has zero musicality in my ears. Even HD650 sounds much more musical than hd800.


 
 I suggest you buy HD650 then
  
 Listening to the HD800 for movies is like putting a Tiffany Lamp in a pig sty Whats the point ??
  
 I see you are trying to say that is all HD800 is good for (Movies), I would say your audition was poorly set up. 1 audition with poor setup does not offer a credible impression of any piece of audio
  
 If you take the time to read the impressions of the HD800 you will notice it is telling of everything in the chain, In other words Crap in = Crap out


----------



## rwalkerphl

searchofsub said:


> I actually named hd800 - Made for movies. It's more like a headphone made for detail-ocd people. With its hefty price tag it has zero musicality to my ears. Even HD650 sounds much more musical than hd800.


 

 Generally, I am very interested in hearing what people like and don't like about a piece of equipment. I'm not really excited about someone happily insulting a lot of people.
  
 If you have something valid to add, please go ahead. Otherwise, please feel free to keep it to yourself.
  
 Have a great day


----------



## headwhacker

searchofsub said:


> Heard the HD800 today and I'm just wondering how some justify the price for this headphones made for movies. It's analytical and not musical at all. Audioquest Nighthawk trumps it (if you plan on listening to music on your headphones) and it's only fraction of the cost.




You are stating your preference. Doesn't necessarily reflect how the headphone performs in general. Yes HD800 is analytical and you prefer it to use on movies but doesn't mean anyone else can't enjoy HD800 for music. I head quite a few analytical headphones and HD800 is quite on top and difficult to beat. I prefer analytical headphones but some are quite thin and too bright. HD800 mainstains a flatter signature which is very pleasing to my ears. I can't even believe some people call this phone bass light considering how good HD800 renders low end detail.

One thing I notice is how good HD800 out of a DAP like AK Jr where my Beyer T1 sounds too dull to enjoy.


----------



## whirlwind

searchofsub said:


> Heard the HD800 today and I'm just wondering how some justify the price for this headphones made for movies. It's analytical and not musical at all. Audioquest Nighthawk trumps it (if you plan on listening to music on your headphones) and it's only fraction of the cost.


 
 It may be good for movies....but I have been enjoying the heck out of mine with music !
  

  
                                                               *+*
  

 Bendix 6080  & Ken Rad 6SN7 BG
  
  
 This album has *never *sounded better


----------



## joespride

whirlwind said:


> It may be good for movies....but I have been enjoying the heck out of mine with music !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Now you've done it, I am forced to turn off Jackson Browne solo acoustic 1, and move to some Marley


----------



## whirlwind

> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Great choice  
  
 Let's be happy mon


----------



## joespride

all right now dammit, you guys and these hd800's are trying to make me eat my words, Marley Legend (deluxe) Is This Love  Is the first non Binaural album I have heard artifacts  of the music sounding like it is 2 feet outside my head left and right Bob is still centered and the bulk of the music remains in head although well separated 
  
 What the heck dictates getting the out of head experience..................
  
 Totally Cool,  Marley does sound amazing


----------



## Zoom25

I'm really sick of seeing the word "analytical" being used to describe the HD 800 or other neutral gear in general on many forums as of late. The word "analytical" has almost been run to the ground, that it carries a negative connotation more than ever. I get the feeling that the word analytical is now synonymously used as the word sterile.
  
 Your 'analytical,' equals my 'resolving.' Being able to resolve shouldn't be a point of complaint...ever. Ehh, whatever, not sure where I was going with this. Lost my train of thought.


----------



## SearchOfSub

zoom25 said:


> I'm really sick of seeing the word "analytical" being used to describe the HD 800 or other neutral gear in general on many forums as of late. The word "analytical" has almost been run to the ground, that it carries a negative connotation more than ever. I get the feeling that the word analytical is now synonymously used as the word sterile.
> 
> Your 'analytical,' equals my 'resolving.' Being able to resolve shouldn't be a point of complaint...ever. Ehh, whatever, not sure where I was going with this. Lost my train of thought.





lol zoom. Here's my take on hd800 in plain english. There is almost no extension on hd800 that relates one note to the next, making it involving and what gives rythmic flow to music. It's a stop and go more so then a lot of headphones. It's not musical compared to hd650 and Nighthawks. It's flat and accurate I suppose which mimics live stage performance more so than other headphones, but is still not upto par as a real live performance. Soundstage is still not good enough compared to a real live performance. Since hd800 is very flat and very fast and stop and go, the imaging is very good, but the big picture of music, which is flow and rythem is taken away. 

To make it simple. When I play a music on hd800 - it sounds like there is a guitar playing in one side of the room, drums in the other side of the room, vocals on another room, and piano on another room and you are on the bottom room hearing different sounds in different rooms.

With musical heqdphones, it sounds like all is playing in one room together and you are in the same room. Biggest problem with hd800 is it lacks rythem and it is not able to connect musical instruments together in a groove and soulful way.

it doesn't extend enough.


----------



## Zoom25

searchofsub said:


> lol zoom. Here's my take on hd800 in plain english. *There is almost no extension on hd800 that relates one note to the next, making it involving and what gives rythmic flow to music. It's a stop and go more so then a lot of headphones.* It's not musical compared to hd650 and Nighthawks. It's flat and accurate I suppose which mimics live stage performance more so than other headphones, but is still not upto par as a real live performance. Soundstage is still not good enough compared to a real live performance. Since hd800 is very flat and very fast and stop and go, the imaging is very good, but the big picture of music, *which is flow and rythem is taken away*.
> 
> To make it simple. When I play a music on hd800 - it sounds like there is a guitar playing in one side of the room, drums in the other side of the room, vocals on another room, and piano on another room and you are on the bottom room hearing different sounds in different rooms.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can totally understand the concept of what you are saying. I've felt the same about other headphones in the past. Not so much with the HD 800, but still I get it. Been recently trying out a few Dac, amps, and servers.
  
 I've found the transport feeding the DAC to be very important as well. I tried transports/servers from Naim, Bryston, and NAD once again on the HD 800, like I did with my LCD-3 in the past. I've found the HD 800 to be more responsive to these changes.
  
 The very problem that you note have been mitigated to a large degree for me. You can hear everything in great detail, but the swing and overall rhythm is missing. After adding the BDP-1, I found the music to have more cohesion throughout the track, from one note to the next. No more micro gaps in the track. The overall FR didn't change much. The blackground improved, the bass goes a tiny bit deeper and is definitely more tighter, with improved imaging. Although, to me the main benefit was improving the exact problem you are experiencing. The music plays when it's supposed to and doesn't play when it's not supposed to.
  
 Maybe it's jitter or the low noise or whatever, I don't really care.


----------



## pervysage

Check out Tyll's latest posts for Big Sound 2015. Good things were said about the HD800.

He sure seems to love the modification though. Almost curious enough about it to try it myself.


----------



## AlanU

zoom25 said:


> I'm really sick of seeing the word "analytical" being used to describe the HD 800 or other neutral gear in general on many forums as of late. The word "analytical" has almost been run to the ground, that it carries a negative connotation more than ever. I get the feeling that the word analytical is now synonymously used as the word sterile.
> 
> Your 'analytical,' equals my 'resolving.' Being able to resolve shouldn't be a point of complaint...ever. Ehh, whatever, not sure where I was going with this. Lost my train of thought.


 
 I guess it all depends on how you feed your HP.  The HD800 is such a dynamic beast and your choice of source/dac can be as dramatic as loving or hating the headphones.
  
 Some folks rave about feeding their HP with a tube amp or the latest craze solid state amp. Then a DAC will come into discussion. 
  
 To me an extremely resolving system can either let me get lost into analyzing details or dissecting the music with ultra detailed clarity. Hyper details has never moved me when I listen to jazz/vocals.   With most of the solid state DACs I've used the emphasis on details seems overly hyper detailed to hear a pin drop on the stage.  All of this discussion all becomes a subjective debate. 
  
 Throw some vinyl to the mix or getting pleasant distortion from tubes. This can bring back the realism in organic sound of human vocals and longer tail in note decay. For up beat music/electronica with high energy a solid state setup  is hard to beat if you compare against tubes. 
  
 Since I feed my HD800 with a Burson Virtuoso with internal dac it's pleasing and decent. Once I feed my Virtuoso with Mercury vapor rectifiers or other tube rectifiers (separate unit)  feeding my tube dac .......I can't listen to my internal Burson dac. Simply by changing the tube dac setup it's resolving enough but the music becomes very moving and far from "digital".  Doing so transforms the HD800 to a totally different "set of headphones" as the system synergy changes.  To me there is no comparison using tube setup vs  solid state setup. Next step is buying a different amp (tube).  
  
 I've settled with a tube buffer between my Burson internal dac and amp section. This is a pleasing setup with some frequency roll off. When I do put the efforts in taking my tube dac setup from my 2 channel setup the HD800 transform to a totally different "transducer".


----------



## fuzzybaffy

I for one actually appreciate technical superiority on a headphone. Technicality does matter, though I'd agree, it isn't everything. But it does matter and definitely contributes to my enjoyment of something. 

If you think about sports or live music performances, for instance. We marvel at a player's or musician's technical ability. It adds to our enjoyment of the sport or concert. I view it the same way with headphones.


----------



## Thenewguy007

zoom25 said:


> I'm really sick of seeing the word "analytical" being used to describe the HD 800 or other neutral gear in general on many forums as of late. The word "analytical" has almost been run to the ground, that it carries a negative connotation more than ever. I get the feeling that the word analytical is now synonymously used as the word sterile.
> 
> Your 'analytical,' equals my 'resolving.' Being able to resolve shouldn't be a point of complaint...ever. Ehh, whatever, not sure where I was going with this. Lost my train of thought.


 

 I think people are associating the diffused sound of the HD800 with analytical.
 I like analytical. If analytical means a super heavy drum & bass song is rendered perfectly then that is good to me.
  
 Though I don't feel the HD800, without serious amps, can render drums & bass with authority & slam like they are supposed to sound.


----------



## SearchOfSub

hd800 isn't diffused - it actually does imaging well.


----------



## Sorrodje

Musical vs analytical....  I'm soooooo tired of those arguments.  
  
 Analytical for some is the musical for others , the musical for some is the boring mess for others.  matter of tastes, musical and sound preferences. that's all subjective. 
  
 Tyll Hertsens just released his ranking of the totl headphones he had for the Bigsound2015 and his favorite is the HE1K that I personaly consider way too soft and polite and not precise enough for my music enjoyment cuz it's does not make me feel what I listen is real.  I'm a HD800 nut for good reasons after all and Tyll is crystal clear about his personal preference towards warmer/darker sound sig.  So I fully understand when he comes from even if our preferences differ. 
  
 Absolute great work from Tyll. the whole Big sound 2015 deserves a lot of praise.


----------



## ubs28

I only heard disconnected "rooms" with old poor recordings. So the problem lies in the recording.

Movies are recorded better than music nowadays quite sadly.


----------



## kapanak

sorrodje said:


> Musical vs analytical....  I'm soooooo tired of those arguments.
> 
> Analytical for some is the musical for others , the musical for some is the boring mess for others.  matter of tastes, musical and sound preferences. that's all subjective.
> 
> ...




If you actually watch the video, he does say that with the mod, he'd take the HD800 over any of the other headphones.


----------



## Sorrodje

Didnt see the video yet. that's 25 mn long. will watch that during my Lunch time  .


----------



## headwhacker

sorrodje said:


> Musical vs analytical....  I'm soooooo tired of those arguments.
> 
> Analytical for some is the musical for others , the musical for some is the boring mess for others.  matter of tastes, musical and sound preferences. that's all subjective.
> 
> ...




I agree with your observation of Tyll's listening preferences (towards warm/dark sig). To me the headphones he raves about are mostly what I don't like personally.


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

kapanak said:


> If you actually watch the video, he does say that with the mod, he'd take the HD800 over any of the other headphones.


 
  
 Need to clarify, sometimes it's not easy to be precise with my words in the videos...mostly done in one take, donchaknow.
  
 Professionally, I can't be without an HD 800, so it's the most important headphone to me in my work.
  
 But personally, I'd take the HE-1000 for listening pleasure.


----------



## RudeWolf

The only reason I use a LCD-2 over a HD800 at home is that the Sennheiser in stock form isn't pleasant to listen to. It's a spectacular headphone when EQ calibrated, but un-modded and un-EQ-ed... Audeze wins.


----------



## Dadracer

Just out of interest has anyone done a detailed comparison of the HD800 vs HD800 modified with the anaxilus? I am certain it will make a difference to the sound but I am as sure that means it will be an substantial or significant improvement.
  
 On the one hand I fully respect the work that Tyll and his associates have done and they are to be applauded wholeheartedly. On the other hand is it probable that Sennheiser with their R&D budget had missed something so significant and which could be sorted with such a small adjustment?
  
 Maybe I need to visit the craft shop...........


----------



## Dadracer

Oh and yes, I forgot to ask this. Has anyone at Sennheiser listened to this modification and made comment either official or unofficial about it???


----------



## Raika

tyll hertsens said:


> Need to clarify, sometimes it's not easy to be precise with my words in the videos...mostly done in one take, donchaknow.
> 
> Professionally, I can't be without an HD 800, so it's the most important headphone to me in my work.
> 
> But personally, I'd take the HE-1000 for listening pleasure.


 
 how did you compare the lcd 3 F and he 1000 ? which one hit hard on the bass ? what about the midrange ?
 Thanks Tyll .


----------



## shultzee

rudewolf said:


> The only reason I use a LCD-2 over a HD800 at home is that the Sennheiser in stock form isn't pleasant to listen to. It's a spectacular headphone when EQ calibrated, but un-modded and un-EQ-ed... Audeze wins.


 

 Having owned a LCD -2, LCD-X, and AKG 812 pro and now the HD800 I am forever screwed.  IMHO nothing else holds up to the HD800.


----------



## Sorrodje

tyll hertsens said:


> Need to clarify, sometimes it's not easy to be precise with my words in the videos...mostly done in one take, donchaknow.
> 
> Professionally, I can't be without an HD 800, so it's the most important headphone to me in my work.
> 
> But personally, I'd take the HE-1000 for listening pleasure.


 
  
 Just Saw your vid and  what's funny and interesting for me is that it seems we share the same impressions ( mine are here ) about the HE1K but what makes me dislike  this headphone are the same things that make you like it. we shared some impressions with @romaz and it was exactly the same.  I really find interesting when people who have different tastes can quietly share the same analysis . it means a lot for me. 
  
 btw, kudos for all your work , @Tyll Hertsens . Impressive and insightful . World class stuff that we appreciate a lot in France as well.


----------



## Fegefeuer

very well written take on the HE-1000, Sörrödje


----------



## RudeWolf

dadracer said:


> Just out of interest has anyone done a detailed comparison of the HD800 vs HD800 modified with the anaxilus? I am certain it will make a difference to the sound but I am as sure that means it will be an substantial or significant improvement.
> 
> On the one hand I fully respect the work that Tyll and his associates have done and they are to be applauded wholeheartedly. On the other hand is it probable that Sennheiser with their R&D budget had missed something so significant and which could be sorted with such a small adjustment?
> 
> Maybe I need to visit the craft shop...........


 
  
 I have a modded and stock pair at the office. Compared them both in a sighted listening test. The mod did make them more neutral sounding, but I still had some reservations. I'll ask my engineers to compare them measurement wise and see what happens. My guess is that the Anax modded version together with calibration will sound the best.
  
 As for Sennheiser R&D... I wonder what did they not like about the HD650 signature that made them go with this kind of tuning. As a marketing person for another company I'd say that my experience is that brighter sounding headphones/speakers are able to immediately grab attention. Same goes for exaggerated bass response. How it fares in the long run? I can only guess.
  
 My perfect headphone is a HD800 with HD600 tonality and ortho bass.


----------



## Sorrodje

rudewolf said:


> As for Sennheiser R&D... I wonder what did they not like about the HD650 signature that made them go with this kind of tuning. As a marketing person for another company I'd say that my experience is that brighter sounding headphones/speakers are able to immediately grab attention. Same goes for exaggerated bass response. How it fares in the long run? I can only guess.
> 
> My perfect headphone is a HD800 with HD600 tonality and ortho bass.


 
  
 I definitely think Sennheiser designed the HD800 specifically for Classical music.  And IME this is where the HD800 shines at his best . Mods and EQ help to transform tnhe HD800 in a more forgiving headphone. (I currently use light mods with mine )  
  
 In 2009 , when the HD800 was released ( not to mention that HD800 was developped during the years before) , the HIFI market was really different. and TOTL Hifi stuff was dedicated to classical and Jazz mostly. Now , more and more consumers want totl headphones to listen to a wider range of music where the HD800 FR is not ideal.


----------



## AlanU

After modding my HD800 I do not think I can go back into stock form. I try to keep a simplistic approach to my headphone rig with no EQ manipulation. 
  
 I'll go with new headphones  or buy new dac for different sound signature before EQ'ing.....


----------



## RudeWolf

sorrodje said:


> I definitely think Sennheiser designed the HD800 specifically for Classical music.  And IME this is where the HD800 shines at his best . Mods and EQ help to transform tnhe HD800 in a more forgiving headphone. (I currently use light mods with mine )
> 
> In 2009 , when the HD800 was released ( not to mention that HD800 was developped during the years before) , the HIFI market was really different. and TOTL Hifi stuff was dedicated to classical and Jazz mostly. Now , more and more consumers want totl headphones to listen to a wider range of music where the HD800 FR is not ideal.


 
  
 Do you find classical music too darkly mastered? I'd say that in stock form the HD800 isn't too truthful to the recording and the same goes for most headphones which usually get associated with pro or studio use. With bright coloration you get the impression of increased detail, but the HD800 doesn't need that! It's friggin microscope without any of the tricks.
  
 For me the ultimate test for neutrality is wether a system can be used for critical studio work. One of the reasons why headphones tonality wise are all over the place is that to this day there is no target reference on how to tune them. Hence headphones in studio have always been the underdog device with very few people able to pull off great mixes on them.


----------



## Moonhead

HD800 is King 
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-finale-headphones#3YjCOUtiVUVzMEd3.97
  
 By the way if you ask numerous record producer the only refrence is real live instruments, especially classical and jazz.


----------



## MickeyVee

Not sure I agree with that.. HD800 with McIntosh driving and Deadmou5 or Morgan Page playing is absolute killer!! I listen to bery little classical music.
  
 Quote:


sorrodje said:


> I definitely think Sennheiser designed the HD800 specifically for Classical music.  And IME this is where the HD800 shines at his best . Mods and EQ help to transform tnhe HD800 in a more forgiving headphone. (I currently use light mods with mine )


----------



## MickeyVee

HE-1000 is about the only onter HP I'd consider now. I think that I'm turning onto a _One Headphone Huy_ and it would be the HD800 or HE1000.  Since I already have the HD800, choice is made. {for now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





}
  
 Quote:


tyll hertsens said:


> Professionally, I can't be without an HD 800, so it's the most important headphone to me in my work.
> But personally, I'd take the HE-1000 for listening pleasure.


----------



## Sorrodje

Never said the hd800 was not good for a lot of different musics. Just said I thought it was designed especially for classical and shines at his best with that music.

I'm on my phone. Will be back later to explain why I think the hd800 fr is that suitable for classical and overally acoustic music IMO.


----------



## gnomen

I have been deciding on the best DAC for my HD800s if choosing from the models available to me here in the UK.  Today I auditioned the HDVD800 and the Hugo.  Posting here to add my experiences to those of others in case it is helpful to others making the same decision.
  
 The HDVD800 was disappointing.  I found it 'darker' and less resolving than I had expected.  It is also smooth, and it might be appreciated by those who consider the HD800 too bright (I don't).  The comparison is with my long term main system DAC, the Weiss DAC-202.   It did have good bass energy/solidity but only fractionally more so, if at all, than the Weiss or the Hugo.  Thirty minutes and a wide range of material (pop, classical, small ensemble, large orchestra + choir, etc.) there was no contest.  Not the DAC for me.
  
 By comparison the Hugo was amazing.  Very similar to the Weiss -- perhaps just the tiniest bit coarser on the high notes on some (and only some) tracks.  It might even be the streamer we were using at the hi-fi store.  I will post an update if I get the chance to audition the Hugo on my own specific system.  What the Hugo does have in spades is 'listenability'  -- I kept getting involved in the music and had to remind myself to move on to the next test.  I also found myself nodding and foot-tapping -- there is something wonderful, but a bit subliminal, about the way the Hugo invites you to engage with the music.  I suspect it has a lot to do with initial attack and superb timing but I defer to others in explaining the causes.  Let's face it, a DAC you do not want to give back is the sort of DAC makes you want to put your money down and take home.
  
 Also auditioned the TT which, as others have said, is marginally better on some material.  Just a tad more resolving and also seems to smooth some of the aforementioned slight edge to some high frequencies.  The difference is very small -- small enough to ask yourself whether you would notice it once the new kit settled in and if so is it worth paying double the price?  I am wondering if the little bit of extra smoothness could be equalled in the Hugo with some USB filtering ...
  
 Bottom line: looks like there is a Hugo in my future ... just need to digest all this -- and also see how the Mojo discussion settles, before making a move.
  
 Big thanks to Marc at Audio T in Reading for arranging the afternoon and providing insights.  Recommended.
  
 Cheers
  
 Robert


----------



## joespride

Some Schiit on order.................I am now awaiting delivery of the new Bimby (Schiit Bifrost Multibit), will be comparing it to the Havana to determine which stays and which goes
  
 should see it next week (I Hope)................The little Bimby will have to do alot in order to unseat the Havana


----------



## Wildcatsare1

dadracer said:


> Just out of interest has anyone done a detailed comparison of the HD800 vs HD800 modified with the anaxilus? I am certain it will make a difference to the sound but I am as sure that means it will be an substantial or significant improvement.
> 
> On the one hand I fully respect the work that Tyll and his associates have done and they are to be applauded wholeheartedly. On the other hand is it probable that Sennheiser with their R&D budget had missed something so significant and which could be sorted with such a small adjustment?
> 
> Maybe I need to visit the craft shop...........




I just did the mod from Innerfidelity, it was quite easy to do. The template and directions are excellent you should give it a go!

Still listening, though my initial impressions are very positive.


----------



## Taowolf51

zoom25 said:


> I'm really sick of seeing the word "analytical" being used to describe the HD 800 or other neutral gear in general on many forums as of late. The word "analytical" has almost been run to the ground, that it carries a negative connotation more than ever. I get the feeling that the word analytical is now synonymously used as the word sterile.
> 
> Your 'analytical,' equals my 'resolving.' Being able to resolve shouldn't be a point of complaint...ever. Ehh, whatever, not sure where I was going with this. Lost my train of thought.


 
  
 Eh, that's just the direction the headphone market is going now. People don't like treble anymore, and it really shows in many modern headphones. -50db at 13kHz? Holy crap! I work very hard to keep my ears in good shape so my range of hearing doesn't go down, I'd personally rather not lob 6+kHz off my range through a dark headphone. But, tastes differ, so it's now hard to find a headphone that doesn't sound like it has a big empty hole in the top end.
  


searchofsub said:


> lol zoom. Here's my take on hd800 in plain english. There is almost no extension on hd800 that relates one note to the next, making it involving and what gives rythmic flow to music. It's a stop and go more so then a lot of headphones. It's not musical compared to hd650 and Nighthawks. It's flat and accurate I suppose which mimics live stage performance more so than other headphones, but is still not upto par as a real live performance. Soundstage is still not good enough compared to a real live performance. Since hd800 is very flat and very fast and stop and go, the imaging is very good, but the big picture of music, which is flow and rythem is taken away.
> 
> To make it simple. When I play a music on hd800 - it sounds like there is a guitar playing in one side of the room, drums in the other side of the room, vocals on another room, and piano on another room and you are on the bottom room hearing different sounds in different rooms.
> 
> ...


  

 So you don't like the fact that the HD800 has quick decay and good instrument separation? And you prefer a more syrupy reverberant presentation? That's fine, but do know that if you have a problem with decay with the HD800's, your problem is with the recording and not the headphones. The HD800's quick decay and speed allows it to present the actual decay of the instruments accurately rather than adding decay on top and changing/lengthening the decay of the instrument. I'm guessing the reason you liken it to a "live performance" is that you're referencing performances that are done in rooms that are not properly acoustically treated, and so the reverberations of the headphones are reminding you of the reverberations of the room. And that's fine. When I used to perform, there were times where I preferred the old stone church to Verizon Hall (though one thing about old stone churches is that the actual performers get no feedback and have no idea how they sound which really sucks, but those churches do a very good job at covering up sub-par performances). But, it's just a preference, and both have their merits (though one is very certainly more accurate). Verizon Hall isn't deficient because it's accurate, and it isn't deficient because it allows you to hear the instruments and not the room. Just as the HD800's may not be to your liking, doesn't mean that it's deficient in any way. You prefer the stone church, but that doesn't mean other people don't love modern concert halls, and it doesn't mean modern concert halls are "bad".
  


fuzzybaffy said:


> I for one actually appreciate technical superiority on a headphone. Technicality does matter, though I'd agree, it isn't everything. But it does matter and definitely contributes to my enjoyment of something.
> 
> If you think about sports or live music performances, for instance. We marvel at a player's or musician's technical ability. It adds to our enjoyment of the sport or concert. I view it the same way with headphones.


  
 I definitely do experience this as well, also the ability to hear music at such a high resolution provides its own enjoyment.


----------



## Thenewguy007

tyll hertsens said:


> Need to clarify, sometimes it's not easy to be precise with my words in the videos...mostly done in one take, donchaknow.
> 
> Professionally, I can't be without an HD 800, so it's the most important headphone to me in my work.
> 
> But personally, I'd take the HE-1000 for listening pleasure.


 
  
 Does the HE-1000 provide any sub-bass rumble/impact?
  
 Compared to the Fostex TH900, the rumble on the HD800 is more of a small thud.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thenewguy007 said:


> Does the HE-1000 provide any sub-bass rumble/impact?
> 
> Compared to the Fostex TH900, the rumble on the HD800 is more of a small thud.




I really liked the HEK, but as a compliment to my HD800. I strongly prefer both to the TH900, just didn't sound natural to me.


----------



## TMRaven

Thanks for the directions on the HD800 mod tyll.  Now the Hd800 is both warmer and more detailed.


----------



## Thenewguy007

wildcatsare1 said:


> I really liked the HEK, but as a compliment to my HD800. I strongly prefer both to the TH900, just didn't sound natural to me.


 

 Strangely enough, I did one of the mods for the TH900 based off the Anax mod & it drastically improved the sound.


----------



## ubs28

gnomen said:


> I have been deciding on the best DAC for my HD800s if choosing from the models available to me here in the UK.  Today I auditioned the HDVD800 and the Hugo.  Posting here to add my experiences to those of others in case it is helpful to others making the same decision.
> 
> The HDVD800 was disappointing.  I found it 'darker' and less resolving than I had expected.  It is also smooth, and it might be appreciated by those who consider the HD800 too bright (I don't).  The comparison is with my long term main system DAC, the Weiss DAC-202.   It did have good bass energy/solidity but only fractionally more so, if at all, than the Weiss or the Hugo.  Thirty minutes and a wide range of material (pop, classical, small ensemble, large orchestra + choir, etc.) there was no contest.  Not the DAC for me.
> 
> ...


 

 Guess the Chord Hugo isn't as bad as people claim to be. I wasn't also very impressed by the HDVD800, I expected more to be honest based on how the Hugo sounds.


----------



## SearchOfSub

taowolf51 said:


> Eh, that's just the direction the headphone market is going now. People don't like treble anymore, and it really shows in many modern headphones. -50db at 13kHz? Holy crap! I work very hard to keep my ears in good shape so my range of hearing doesn't go down, I'd personally rather not lob 6+kHz off my range through a dark headphone. But, tastes differ, so it's now hard to find a headphone that doesn't sound like it has a big empty hole in the top end.
> 
> So you don't like the fact that the HD800 has quick decay and good instrument separation? And you prefer a more syrupy reverberant presentation? That's fine, but do know that if you have a problem with decay with the HD800's, your problem is with the recording and not the headphones. The HD800's quick decay and speed allows it to present the actual decay of the instruments accurately rather than adding decay on top and changing/lengthening the decay of the instrument. I'm guessing the reason you liken it to a "live performance" is that you're referencing performances that are done in rooms that are not properly acoustically treated, and so the reverberations of the headphones are reminding you of the reverberations of the room. And that's fine. When I used to perform, there were times where I preferred the old stone church to Verizon Hall (though one thing about old stone churches is that the actual performers get no feedback and have no idea how they sound which really sucks, but those churches do a very good job at covering up sub-par performances). But, it's just a preference, and both have their merits (though one is very certainly more accurate). Verizon Hall isn't deficient because it's accurate, and it isn't deficient because it allows you to hear the instruments and not the room. Just as the HD800's may not be to your liking, doesn't mean that it's deficient in any way. You prefer the stone church, but that doesn't mean other people don't love modern concert halls, and it doesn't mean modern concert halls are "bad".





Yep, too short - no decay and reverbs. Comparison to vocals - a 7 year old child singing vs. a proffesional adult singing with proper decay and reverbs from her voice when singing. 


Pitch is not good - phrasing does not seem natural and musical at all. lol.

But really, it's just not musical, that's all.


----------



## SearchOfSub

gnomen said:


> I have been deciding on the best DAC for my HD800s if choosing from the models available to me here in the UK.  Today I auditioned the HDVD800 and the Hugo.  Posting here to add my experiences to those of others in case it is helpful to others making the same decision.
> 
> The HDVD800 was disappointing.  I found it 'darker' and less resolving than I had expected.  It is also smooth, and it might be appreciated by those who consider the HD800 too bright (I don't).  The comparison is with my long term main system DAC, the Weiss DAC-202.   It did have good bass energy/solidity but only fractionally more so, if at all, than the Weiss or the Hugo.  Thirty minutes and a wide range of material (pop, classical, small ensemble, large orchestra + choir, etc.) there was no contest.  Not the DAC for me.
> 
> ...





Yep, Hugo is nice. You really stop thinking about upgrading once you have it.


----------



## joespride

searchofsub said:


> Yep, too short - no decay and reverbs. Comparison to vocals - a 7 year old child singing vs. a proffesional adult singing with proper decay and reverbs from her voice when singing.
> 
> 
> Pitch is not good - phrasing does not seem natural and musical at all. lol.
> ...


 
  Certainly starting to seem as though you have an ax to grind ( a little payback for the dis like of the Hugo perhaps) or you are attempting to Draw someone in to a flame war....................Pretty sure everyone has seen your feelings on the HD800 as you have stated them a few times now


----------



## longbowbbs

joespride said:


> searchofsub said:
> 
> 
> > Yep, too short - no decay and reverbs. Comparison to vocals - a 7 year old child singing vs. a proffesional adult singing with proper decay and reverbs from her voice when singing.
> ...


 
 Don't feed the troll.....


----------



## joespride

longbowbbs said:


> Don't feed the troll.....


 
 Yep I know you are right,  sometimes emotion gets the best of me.


----------



## SearchOfSub

Not trolling although it seems like it - just giving my honest opinion of the HD800. I am just responding to post that quoted me. I understand that HD800 is amp dependent and I believe you. This is obvious since there is much clarity on HD800 over all the other headphones. So it's only obvious to me sources down the chain would also get amplified through HD800 because of its clairty.


I am just not willing spend thousands more for a "HD800" setup. Anyway, off I go to different threads.


----------



## longbowbbs

The HD800's are phenomenal with this rig. Not cheap but then neither are the HD800's. Do not use training wheels on your Ferrari.


----------



## JamieMcC

Does anyone have  bookmarked or a link to a how to tutorial on re-terminating the stock hd800 cable to 4pin xlr ?


----------



## JaZZ

You don't need a super expensive system to make the HD 800 sound phenomenal. Take a FiiO X5 II and a Chord Hugo, modify the HD 800 and equalize it to match your ears/HRTF. It may lack the euphony of some of the luxury rigs, but with corresponding equalizing you can achieve even that.
  
 I can't decide which I like better: HE1000 or HD 800. But I think it doesn't get much better than those two at present – for my sonic preferences


----------



## Thenewguy007

jazz said:


> You don't need a super expensive system to make the HD 800 sound phenomenal. Take a FiiO X5 II and a Chord Hugo, modify the HD 800 and equalize it to match your ears/HRTF. It may lack the euphony of some of the luxury rigs, but with corresponding equalizing you can achieve even that.
> 
> I can't decide which I like better: HE1000 or HD 800. But I think it doesn't get much better than those two at present – for my sonic preferences


 


 Problem with EQ, most people don't know what the hell they are doing.
 They would probably need serious knowledge & good equipment to get the correct tonal changes they seek without completely messing up the sound.


----------



## skeptic

jamiemcc said:


> Does anyone have  bookmarked or a link to a how to tutorial on re-terminating the stock hd800 cable to 4pin xlr ?


 
  
 Jamie - I reterminated mine after reading this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/490316/re-terminating-the-sennheiser-hd-800-cable-to-balanced  
  
 Internally, the cable has two separately insulated pairs that are then enamel coated.  Based on the posts I've read, and my own experience, it appears Sennheiser is not entirely consistent about which color (red or green) pair is R+ vs. L+.  After you cut the cord (leaving enough length to make the obligatory XLR to TRS adapter out of the leftovers), separate out the wires and peel or melt the enamel off the ends.  Then meter them for continuity with the pins in the earpiece connectors to identify which color is L+ vs. R+.  The cables are pretty thin, but you'll make quick work of it.  
  
 4 pin XLR pinout on the new jack is:
  
 1 - left channel +
 2 - left channel -
 3 - right channel +
 4 - right channel -
  
 Easy peasy and works great.  Personally, I don't believe I hear any obvious difference between my reterminated stock cable and my fancier cardas litz xlr cable.


----------



## JaZZ

thenewguy007 said:


> Problem with EQ, most people don't know what the hell they are doing.
> They would probably need serious knowledge & good equipment to get the correct tonal changes they seek without completely messing up the sound.


 
  
 That's certainly true. It can also happen to me, as it seems. It has turned out that I wasn't exactly on the right track with my previous HE1000 settings.
  
 However, the measuring data on Inner Fidelity are a usable guideline, although they're not entirely reliable, especially at high frequencies (and that has been my above mentioned problem – the 8-10 kHz peaks on a lot of the graphs don't seem to coincide with reality).
  
 Also, pink noise is a good tool for detecting colorations.


----------



## Taowolf51

searchofsub said:


> Yep, too short - no decay and reverbs. Comparison to vocals - a 7 year old child singing vs. a proffesional adult singing with proper decay and reverbs from her voice when singing.
> 
> 
> Pitch is not good - phrasing does not seem natural and musical at all. lol.
> ...


 
  
 The age/skill if a singer has nothing to do with decay or reverberation, so not sure what you're trying to say there.


----------



## SearchOfSub

If you read my last sentence.

"But really, it's just not musical, that's all". - This is in regards to HD800 *with* the Rega amp I heard it on. Not sure how it would sound on different amps.


----------



## Taowolf51

I understood that part just fine.


----------



## SearchOfSub

Well then you should be able to understand the concept of the previous post as well.


----------



## JaZZ

searchofsub said:


> If you read my last sentence.
> 
> "But really, it's just not musical, that's all". - This is in regards to HD800.


 
  
 I think I understand that. Sonic ideals and ears vary to a large degree – and rest of the chain plays its part as well. To me the (modified!) HD 800 is honest and musical at the same time.


----------



## joespride

Picking up the materials for modding tomorrow, Not because I think the HD800 sounds bad but because if it is an improvement why not do it (does not hurt that it is reversible


----------



## Taowolf51

searchofsub said:


> Well then you should be able to understand the concept of the previous post as well.


 
  
 I understand your overall feelings on it, but your descriptions of sound don't really make much sense. But that's fine, I guess, it's not too important.


----------



## SearchOfSub

I understand where you were going with this from the beggining, precisely the reason why I said "But really, it's just not musical. That's all". - It wasn't important, until you brought it to attention. Ofcourse, unless you like talking about unimportant stuff in general.


----------



## SearchOfSub

Generally speaking, HE-500 sounded fine to me but it sounded better after mod. - I'm sure it wouldn't hurt if it was a mod that doesn't backfire with other areas.


----------



## Taowolf51

searchofsub said:


> I understand where you were going with this from the beggining, precisely the reason why I said "But really, it's just not musical. That's all". - It wasn't important, until you brought it to attention. Ofcourse, unless you like talking about unimportant stuff in general.


 
  
 I'm just trying to find out your experience with the headphones. "Musical" has different meanings to different people (as others have stated earlier), so it doesn't really describe much that is concrete. But, when you describe the sound itself and how it interacts you can get a much more concrete and complete idea of someone's experience and preferences, so I was trying to get a more concrete idea of how you felt.
 But maybe I shouldn't have taken an interest in your thoughts at all, and if you don't want to talk about it, that's fine.


----------



## SearchOfSub

Well, I suppose it is true everyone has different ears. But music is music, and if it conveys rythem and flow in a rythmic and flowing manner, it's a piece that is universally understood to a wide audience. But, for the sake of the matter, I can say I hear your point somewhat - I actually did express my opinion on the post where you quoted me, and if you read a few more posts down the line - I believe there was another member who understood perfectly what I was trying to say on my "musical preferences". 

To each their own ears I guess. - somewhat.


----------



## Mach3

Can't wait for Big Sound 2016. Let's see how far the LCD4 climbs up the ladder.
 But I doubt it will exceed the HE1000 as there seem to be lack of hype/vibe compared to the HE1000 when it was announced.


----------



## RUMAY408

My take on my own HP's
  
 The LCD-3F sounds better than the HD800 on a similar DAC and mid-fi amps ex. Schiit Valli/Meier Classic
  
 The HD800 sounds better to me on a similar DAC and high end amps ex. WA5/GS-Xmk2/Cavalli Liquid Glass
  
 LCD-3F are Smooth, Forgiving and Bass-Centric
  
 HD800 are Analytic, Technical and Detailed and scale like no other HP I have personally ever heard and that includes the HE1K


----------



## RogerWilco

Everyone hears sound in a different way , looking forward to my new HD 800 cans , Looking at cables ,usually prefer silver


----------



## drez

I differentiate between fake musicality and real musicality. But yeah decay is easy to screw up, I have a speshal operating system that ruins decay... hd 800 will actually let u hear recorded decay better, not try to fix poor recordings or hifi components. I suspect a lot of music could be produced to suit speakers with room acoustics adding more decay. This is recording issue IMO... midfi digital gear can also struggle to reproduce recorded decay. Tbh though if I want to extend decay or even add body with HD 800 i can do that with a cable swap but the result is usually suboptimal. I notice that with some cable singers appear to not finish words, the word just trails off without articulate ending. Right now I just use most accurate cable and make sure not to screw up the decay with poor computer OS tweaking.


----------



## Thenewguy007

rogerwilco said:


> Everyone hears sound in a different way , looking forward to my new HD 800 cans , Looking at cables ,usually prefer silver


 

 They pair poorly with silver cables.
 Use copper.


----------



## skeptic

thenewguy007 said:


> They pair poorly with silver cables.
> Use copper.


 
  
 That's certainly the popular HF mythology, but many disagree and favor silver for its superior electrical characteristics/conductivity.  The whole claim that copper sounds "warmer" or somehow tames the hd800's highs is something that would show up in simple FR tests if it were true, and it simply does not.  
  
 As discussed ad nauseam, for those who want to tame trebles and reflections, there is a very simple tweak that does this for real - and for next to no money: the jazz/anax mod.  Alternatively, if you throw an impedance adapter between your amp and hd800's, midbass will increase at the cost of damping.  (This has been measured and demonstrated - in fact, Senn's own amps have a relatively high balanced output impedance for this very reason, IMO, and not because Senn is too incompetent to design a low output impedance amp.)  Know what else is the equivalent of an impedance adapter?  A cable with high resistance.  Thus, it may well be the case that some hd800 owners prefer poorly made cables over well made cables because the former will actually change FR and increase midbass response.      
  
 Another interesting consideration - the commercial cable makers all seem to be using eidolic xlr plugs (frankly, because they look fancy), but neutrik is the only company that makes 4 pin xlr's with pure silver contacts.  Those who do use neutrik's generally use the model with the inferior gold plated connectors because they want the aesthetics of an all black barrel/body.  The design choices are being made based on fashion, not function.  
  
 I've been on these forums a long time, built my fair share of amps, cables, blah blah.  Cables are 99% about style points and bragging rights.  Unless you already have a summit-fi dac and amp, cables should be the absolute last purchase on anyone's list.


----------



## JamieMcC

skeptic said:


> Jamie - I reterminated mine after reading this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/490316/re-terminating-the-sennheiser-hd-800-cable-to-balanced
> 
> Internally, the cable has two separately insulated pairs that are then enamel coated.  Based on the posts I've read, and my own experience, it appears Sennheiser is not entirely consistent about which color (red or green) pair is R+ vs. L+.  After you cut the cord (leaving enough length to make the obligatory XLR to TRS adapter out of the leftovers), separate out the wires and peel or melt the enamel off the ends.  Then meter them for continuity with the pins in the earpiece connectors to identify which color is L+ vs. R+.  The cables are pretty thin, but you'll make quick work of it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Super thanks


----------



## headwhacker

skeptic said:


> That's certainly the popular HF mythology, but many disagree and favor silver for its superior electrical characteristics/conductivity.  The whole claim that copper sounds "warmer" or somehow tames the hd800's highs is something that would show up in simple FR tests if it were true, and it simply does not.
> 
> As discussed ad nauseam, for those who want to tame trebles and reflections, there is a very simple tweak that does this for real - and for next to no money: the jazz/anax mod.  Alternatively, if you throw an impedance adapter between your amp and hd800's, midbass will increase at the cost of damping.  (This has been measured and demonstrated - in fact, Senn's own amps have a relatively high balanced output impedance for this very reason, IMO, and not because Senn is too incompetent to design a low output impedance amp.)  Know what else is the equivalent of an impedance adapter?  A cable with high resistance.  Thus, it may well be the case that some hd800 owners prefer poorly made cables over well made cables because the former will actually change FR and increase midbass response.
> 
> ...




Silver's superior conductivity? Compared to what, copper? Silver is better, yes but superior? It's an exaggeration. I agree, though cable should be the last of your worries when thinking about upgrading your audio chain. It should for many other reason but sonic qualities.


----------



## skeptic

headwhacker said:


> Silver's superior conductivity? Compared to what, copper? Silver is better, yes but superior? It's an exaggeration. I agree, though cable should be the last of your worries when thinking about upgrading your audio chain. It should for many other reason but sonic qualities.


 
  
 Compared to all alternatives - no exaggeration.  Copper ain't bad though.  http://eddy-current.com/conductivity-of-metals-sorted-by-resistivity/


----------



## maxedfx

All these cable talk are great and informative, but what should one do when looking for a balanced cable??


----------



## vnmslsrbms

maxedfx said:


> All these cable talk are great and informative, but what should one do when looking for a balanced cable??


 
 Not sure what you're asking.  I'd get one that doesn't tangle easily, looks and feels durable, pleases your eye, has the right XLR termination for your amp (4 or two 3's).  And doesn't cost more than half your headphone hopefully.


----------



## rayfalkner

Well since the official Senn's HD800 balanced cable is about $340, I think it makes sense to find a quality third party cable that carries a lesser price tag instead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Anyway I do think that the #1 quality that we should look upon upgrading a cable is its durability, construction, or material quality so it hopefully lasts longer and more resistant against wear and tear and stuffs- instead of blabbering which cable utilizes the godlike extraplanar entity's technology that upgrades your measly music into a symphony that accompanies the birth of a universe.


----------



## maxedfx

Thanks for the input guys! Any recommendations though?


----------



## RudeWolf

Just solder in female and male 4-pin XLR's in the middle of the stock cable. By far the easiest fix.


----------



## maxedfx

rudewolf said:


> Just solder in female and male 4-pin XLR's in the middle of the stock cable. By far the easiest fix.



I would do them in a heart beat of I had the skills!


----------



## JamieMcC

skeptic said:


> Jamie - I reterminated mine after reading this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/490316/re-terminating-the-sennheiser-hd-800-cable-to-balanced
> 
> Internally, the cable has two separately insulated pairs that are then enamel coated.  Based on the posts I've read, and my own experience, it appears Sennheiser is not entirely consistent about which color (red or green) pair is R+ vs. L+.  After you cut the cord (leaving enough length to make the obligatory XLR to TRS adapter out of the leftovers), separate out the wires and peel or melt the enamel off the ends.  Then meter them for continuity with the pins in the earpiece connectors to identify which color is L+ vs. R+.  The cables are pretty thin, but you'll make quick work of it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ok all done thanks and didn't take long at all,  checking the wires for continuity red was right + and green was left + and two whites as negatives. The wires were quiet small and stripping them clean was the fiddle part and needed my reading glasses and magnifying glass to check for stray strands.  I chopped off about 6inchs of the stock cable from the original trs plug and have ordered another 4 pin XLR socket which I can add to the cut off piece to make up a short xlr to trs adapter.


----------



## shultzee

maxedfx said:


> Thanks for the input guys! Any recommendations though?


 

 Charleston Cable Company mid tier or audiophile are both very nice.  http://www.c3audio.com


----------



## devilboy

Earlier this year, I decided to give headphone listening another try but this time with full commitment (a couple years ago I had an LCD 2 rev 2 with an inadequate amp).  At the same time I auditioned an LCD-X, HD 800 and Hifiman 560.  All three were in stock form and driven by a Burson Conductor Virtuoso.  All three had admirable qualities and some not so much.  For me, the LCD-X was just too damn heavy (the 4 is even heavier still.....What?).  Also, it's bass seemed exaggerated to me.  The 560 was nice too, but I heard a "magic" with the 800.  Even with stock cable and no Anax mod, driven by a bright "ish" ss amp,  I knew this was the sound I was looking for and was willing to build a system AROUND the 800.
  
 I ended up with a Woo WA2 with all NOS tubes, Norne Draug 2 cable and the Anax mod and I'm extremely happy.  Of course there are better ancillary components for the HD 800 and in the future I may want to change them, but for now I don't care.


----------



## rawrster

devilboy said:


> Earlier this year, I decided to give headphone listening another try but this time with full commitment (a couple years ago I had an LCD 2 rev 2 with an inadequate amp).  At the same time I auditioned an LCD-X, HD 800 and Hifiman 560.  All three were in stock form and driven by a Burson Conductor Virtuoso.  All three had admirable qualities and some not so much.  For me, the LCD-X was just too damn heavy (the 4 is even heavier still.....What?).  Also, it's bass seemed exaggerated to me.  The 560 was nice too, but I heard a "magic" with the 800.  Even with stock cable and no Anax mod, driven by a bright "ish" ss amp,  I knew this was the sound I was looking for and was willing to build a system AROUND the 800.
> 
> I ended up with a Woo WA2 with all NOS tubes, Norne Draug 2 cable and the Anax mod and I'm extremely happy.  Of course there are better ancillary components for the HD 800 and in the future I may want to change them, but for now I don't care.


 
  
 I definitely agree. The HD800 is still a very good headphone even after all these years (I think it was released in 2009) while many other headphones start fading for newer models. My headphone is stock with the exception of a balanced cable which I needed for my amp and I'm very happy. I could get a better dac and a longer cable but those are not important now as I anticipate being happy for a long time. This is my 3rd HD800 so as they say the third time's the charm. I know many in here mod the HD800 but I'm happy with it as it is and don't find any glaring faults (for my tastes) where I need to modify it.


----------



## Sorrodje

Thanks to Sennheiser policy, their models last long so we have time to enjoy what they offer while some other brands release one headphone a year.  There's some reasons why HD600 and 650 became classics and we can probably consider that the HD800 has become a classic as well. 
  
 Considering the current state of the market, I'll probably keep my HD800 and play with some Stax for a long time and wait for really new and innovative better products .


----------



## Thenewguy007

maxedfx said:


> Thanks for the input guys! Any recommendations though?


 
  
 Draug2
 http://headmania.org/tag/norne-audio-draug-series-review/
  
 I think the Vanquish model is said to be as good & cheaper as well.


----------



## maxedfx

shultzee said:


> Charleston Cable Company mid tier or audiophile are both very nice.  http://www.c3audio.com







thenewguy007 said:


> Draug2
> http://headmania.org/tag/norne-audio-draug-series-review/
> 
> I think the Vanquish model is said to be as good & cheaper as well.




Thanks guys! Will check them out!


----------



## Sorrodje

Bought This cable from ebay : http://www.ebay.com/itm/3m-10ft-Cardas-Sennheiser-HD800-Headphone-Cable-Balanced-or-Furutech-1-4-/121734157550 and I'd rebuy it in a heart beat If I had to do so.


----------



## rawrster

I have the mid tier Charleston cable and I like it. It only took a week from ordering to receiving it so it came really fast. This is recommended if you are in a rush. 

You really can't go wrong. There are lots of companies that make high quality cables. It is just up to your price range and how long you are willing to wait.


----------



## joespride

Just finished the anax mod (took longer to go to the store and get the materials than the actual mod took) about 1 hour and really quite easy, I will say 1 thing about the mod is  it holds the inner cover / pad / filter (whatever the heck they call it) out further and that tickles my outer ear now, It may just need some fidgeting to get it to lay down better we will see.
  
 I can not hear any detrimental sound loss, and it seems the Highs are a bit smoother, I can listen louder with no wincing in pain
  
 Still supremely dynamic, Has not hurt the sound / head stage any, Bob Marleys cow bells on is this love are still outside the head at least 1 foot left and right sides


----------



## AlanU

joespride said:


> Just finished the anax mod (took longer to go to the store and get the materials than the actual mod took) about 1 hour and really quite easy, I will say 1 thing about the mod is  it holds the inner cover / pad / filter (whatever the heck they call it) out further and that tickles my outer ear now, It may just need some fidgeting to get it to lay down better we will see.
> 
> I can not hear any detrimental sound loss, and it seems the Highs are a bit smoother, I can listen louder with no wincing in pain
> 
> Still supremely dynamic, Has not hurt the sound / head stage any, Bob Marleys cow bells on is this love are still outside the head at least 1 foot left and right sides


 
  
 I did not follow the anax mod exactly but I'll have to say it was definitely  an improvement to my ears. 
  
 All of this sound discussion is always subjective. I'll have to agree about the slight roll off in treble with this mod.


----------



## icebear

thenewguy007 said:


> ....
> I think the *Vanquish* model is said to be as good & cheaper as well.


 
 +1 for the Norne Vanquish :
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/606500/norne-audio-was-norse-audio-feedback-impression-thread/855#post_10621360
  
 I have it since June 2014 and never thought about getting anything else.
 Handling is great, no microphonic issues, sound is stellar in my set up.


----------



## HiAudio

Whoever has both HD 800 and HD 650, please tell me how to find the difference between using them. I had listened to different type of music using the two phones, I have not found much difference. Thanks in advance. Here is my setup:
  
 Windows 8.1 foobar 2000 play FLAC --> USB to DAC-19 --> regular RCA --> HDVA 600 --> stock cable to both HD800 and HD650
  
 Is my HD 650 that good? Didn't I bring out the good from the HD 800? Do I have hearing problems


----------



## MattTCG

joespride said:


> Just finished the anax mod (took longer to go to the store and get the materials than the actual mod took) about 1 hour and really quite easy, I will say 1 thing about the mod is  it holds the inner cover / pad / filter (whatever the heck they call it) out further and that tickles my outer ear now, It may just need some fidgeting to get it to lay down better we will see.
> 
> I can not hear any detrimental sound loss, and it seems the Highs are a bit smoother, I can listen louder with no wincing in pain
> 
> Still supremely dynamic, Has not hurt the sound / head stage any, Bob Marleys cow bells on is this love are still outside the head at least 1 foot left and right sides


You aren't supposed to use dust covers with the mod.


----------



## devilboy

matttcg said:


> You aren't supposed to use dust covers with the mod.


 I too ran into the same problem and removed my factory pads immediately.


----------



## Sorrodje

hiaudio said:


> Is my HD 650 that good?


 
  
 Yes. You nailed it , the 650 is that good and competes with TOTL headphones including HD800.  I still think the HD800 is a better headphone on many points ( more precise, more bass and treble extension, faster, clearer, more resolving) though. but IMO and IME , HD650 and 800 share some family genes and the 650 still offers Hi end sound at Mid-fi price.  
  
 I really think HD650,600 and 800 sound more similar than different despite the different FR in treble area.  HD800 is more the younger, stronger ,faster young brother where HD600/650 are the older ones , less athletic, less fast , with growing bellies. But , women know that sometimes bellies are less fancy but more comfortable right ?


----------



## HiAudio

sorrodje said:


> Yes. You nailed it , the 650 is that good and competes with TOTL headphones including HD800.  I still think the HD800 is a better headphone on many points ( more precise, more bass and treble extension, faster, clearer, more resolving) though. but IMO and IME , HD650 and 800 share some family genes and the 650 still offers Hi end sound at Mid-fi price.
> 
> I really think HD650,600 and 800 sound more similar than different despite the different FR in treble area.  HD800 is more the younger, stronger ,faster young brother where HD600/650 are the older ones , less athletic, less fast , with growing bellies. But , women know that sometimes bellies are less fancy but more comfortable right ?


 

 That's some interesting and funny explanation. Yes, I never had the thought of parting my HD 650 after I got better phones.


----------



## MattTCG

hiaudio said:


> That's some interesting and funny explanation. Yes, I never had the thought of parting my HD 650 after I got better phones.


 
  
 I've bought, sold and traded about every hp out there. Yet, my 650 has always remained in my collection.


----------



## joespride

matttcg said:


> You aren't supposed to use dust covers with the mod.


 
 I followed Tyll video and he installed his after the mod............Guess I can pull them and see what happens...........Thanks Matt


----------



## MattTCG

joespride said:


> I followed Tyll video and he installed his after the mod............Guess I can pull them and see what happens...........Thanks Matt


 
  
 All the cool guys know not to put the dust covers back in.


----------



## Taowolf51

Interesting bit of information from Tyll's latest video. Apparently he's quite fond of EQ'ing now, and made quite the statement about it.
  
 "I've become convinced that, really the only way, if you want a high end headphone system, is to equalize."
  
 https://youtu.be/uLzXiqvfNUU?t=6m15s
  
 I'm surprised he's become such a fan so quickly.
  
 EDIT: Aw man, imagine if Tyll starts making parametric EQ recommendations (or jumping off points) based on his own measurements for different headphones.
 Or maybe even gets Bob Katz to do it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


matttcg said:


> All the cool guys know not to put the dust covers back in.


 
  
 Have you noticed much of a sonic change after removing the dust covers? I didn't really notice much except for more comfort (ears not touching).


----------



## whirlwind

sorrodje said:


> hiaudio said:
> 
> 
> > Is my HD 650 that good?
> ...


 
 Ha!


----------



## joespride

matttcg said:


> All the cool guys know not to put the dust covers back in.


 
 Damn I have already been discovered 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Removed the dust covers and so far so good, my big AZZ ears are not rubbing on anything


----------



## Wildcatsare1

joespride said:


> Damn I have already been discovered
> 
> Removed the dust covers and so far so good, my big AZZ ears are not rubbing on anything




Joe, uncool here, I put my dustcovers back in too. It is a little less dark with them off, thanks Matt!


----------



## joespride

wildcatsare1 said:


> Joe, uncool here, I put my dustcovers back in too. It is a little less dark with them off, thanks Matt!


 
 Feels good not being the only NERD 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Going through several genre, so far HD800 is decent on all,  and GREAT on some


----------



## TMRaven

I prefer my mod with the dust-covers on.


----------



## Pokemonn

I personally prefer my heavily modded with dust cover off..
 my Pokemonn mod is cover ALL metal ear cups area with clothes. so enough darker sounding. no dust cover needed to tame treble.
 dust cover on kills resolution and clarity very much, and dust cover on sounds below Stax 007 level IMO.


----------



## TMRaven

The sonic difference is subtle at best. The biggest difference is what others have said in the thread-- if your ears are big and touch the dust covers with the mod, taking them off could alleviate that.


----------



## Pokemonn

it may depend on how to mod your HD800s.in fact my modification are complitly differnt from original Anax mod.
 for my mod, dust cover did change sound significantly.


----------



## lukeap69

pokemonn said:


> it may depend on how to mod your HD800s.in fact my modification are complitly differnt from original Anax mod.
> for my mod, dust cover did change sound significantly.


 
 Can you share the sound change you've noticed? Cheers.


----------



## Pokemonn

lukeap69 said:


> Can you share the sound change you've noticed? Cheers.


 
 Ok.
 dust cover on with my mod - very dark, congested, treble roll off, low fi
 dust cover off with my mod - sound sharp, crisp, crystal clear, hi fi


----------



## pumpe19

Hey, cable question:
 After someone in this thread recommended the Draug v2 Copper cables for the HD800, i got on their website and configured them to my best knowledge (hoping they are really copper and fit my amp:
  
*- *Draug Length: 9 ft.
*- *Draug Headphone Type: Sennheiser HD800
*- *Cable Color Choice: Black / Brown (preor..
*- *Termination: Dual 3-pin XLR male ..
*- *Right / Left channel logo color selection: Silver metallic (all..
  
http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/Norne-Draug-occ-litz-multi-core-type-4-oppo-pm-1-2-sennheiser-hd700-audeze-lcd-3-x-xc-hifiman-he-5-9-560-hd800
  
 Now, does above termination match my headphone amp: Musical Fidelity MX-HPA?
http://www.musicalfidelity.com/mx-hpa/
 I guess it does, but just to make sure. 
  
 Thanks for any info on the matter.
  
 Cheers,
 Pumpe 19


----------



## punit

pumpe19 said:


> *- *Termination: Dual 3-pin XLR male ..
> Now, does above termination match my headphone amp: Musical Fidelity MX-HPA?


 
 Yes, it does


----------



## Maxx134

Question:

Has anyone have their HD800 produce enough bass level to vibrate their jaw?...


----------



## kapanak

maxx134 said:


> Question:
> 
> Has anyone have their HD800 produce enough bass level to vibrate their jaw?...


 

 Pretty sure that's unhealthy.
  
 However, if a track calls for it, the HD800 can provide sharp, tight, full bass.


----------



## Samuel777

This cable looks very nice :
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2m-5N-OFC-pure-copper-Audio-upgrade-Cable-For-HD800-HD-800-headphones-Cable/32481907958.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.28.yT6CDY&ws_ab_test=201556_8,201527_1_71_72_73_74_75,201560_1


----------



## MermaidMan

I just saw the HD800's in a Cadillac CT6 commercial. Victory for Audiophiles! They only showed the front of the cups though...


----------



## shultzee

mermaidman said:


> I just saw the HD800's in a Cadillac CT6 commercial. Victory for Audiophiles! They only showed the front of the cups though...


 
  
  
  
 Saw that also.  HD800's and a gnarly turntable.


----------



## skeptic

tmraven said:


> I prefer my mod with the dust-covers on.




Ditto that here.


----------



## moshen

shultzee said:


> Saw that also.  HD800's and a gnarly turntable.


 

 And Steve Wozniak was the one wearing them.


----------



## RUMAY408

moshen said:


> And Steve Wozniak was the one wearing them.


 

 The TT is a VPI Classic


----------



## Thenewguy007

matttcg said:


> I've bought, sold and traded about every hp out there. Yet, my 650 has always remained in my collection.


 
  
 I can't imagine how the 650 can do anything better than the HE-500 & LCD2?
 Those two are roided up 650 cans, they are supposed to do everything the 650 does, only better.


----------



## TMRaven

650 does comfort better.


----------



## Thenewguy007

maxx134 said:


> Question:
> 
> Has anyone have their HD800 produce enough bass level to vibrate their jaw?...


 
  
 I actually did the paper test that they do in the basshead thread & the HD800 definitely can produce sub-bass rumble.
 Nowhere near what the top basshead cans can do, not even close, but it can produce some visible vibrations on the sheet of paper.
  
 A lot of other headphones I had couldn't even come to producing anything at all.


----------



## Thenewguy007

If I knew there was ANY amp that could get the HD800 close to the rumble/impact/physical feel of the sub-bass of the Fostex TH-900, I would break the bank getting it.


----------



## ubs28

thenewguy007 said:


> If I knew there was ANY amp that could get the HD800 close to the rumble/impact/physical feel of the sub-bass of the Fostex TH-900, I would break the bank getting it.




Use an EQ?


----------



## moshen

thenewguy007 said:


> If I knew there was ANY amp that could get the HD800 close to the rumble/impact/physical feel of the sub-bass of the Fostex TH-900, I would break the bank getting it.


 
  
 Try Sonarworks EQ. It's a very high quality EQ and they have an HD800 profile that does wonders. In fact I can't really listen to the HD800 without it.


----------



## Thenewguy007

moshen said:


> Try Sonarworks EQ. It's a very high quality EQ and they have an HD800 profile that does wonders. In fact I can't really listen to the HD800 without it.


 
  


ubs28 said:


> Use an EQ?


 
  
 You can EQ the Sennheiser to do this?


----------



## mynameisdan

Random observation I've had with my HD800's the past few weeks: I know a lot of the summit-fi community dogs on the HD800's for "exaggerating" the soundstage with "artificial" imaging and other words that make it seem like the ring diaphragm somehow makes its portrayal of music dishonest.
  
 I could kind of see where those folks were coming from for a long time. But I've spent a few weeks—months, actually, now that I think about it—listening almost exclusively from vinyl, and my overall feeling is that I don't detect any of that "artificiality" of soundstage anymore. I don't think that the DACs that I've used historically somehow ruined the music, but I listened to both sides of _Rumours_ this evening on my HD800s and it never occurred to me at any point that the music was exaggerated or stretched from an imaging perspective. The music was just happening around me in a really remarkable, casual way.
  
 I never noticed before that analog sources make the imaging presentation more casual and natural for me, but I'm going to give _Rumours_ another listen tomorrow from a digital source and see if my perception has just changed or if there's some discernible difference from a source perspective.


----------



## hekeli

thenewguy007 said:


> You can EQ the Sennheiser to do this?


 
  
 Try Sonarworks, max the bass boost / tilt. You'd be surprised what the old Senny can deliver.


----------



## johnjen

maxx134 said:


> Question:
> 
> Has anyone have their HD800 produce enough bass level to vibrate their jaw?...


No, not my jaw. 
But my whole head and chest, yes.
I can't explain how.

JJ


----------



## johnjen

hekeli said:


> Try Sonarworks, max the bass boost / tilt. You'd be surprised what the old Senny can deliver.


I'm running Sonarworks Ref 3 plug-in with flat response down to 25Hz where it just starts to fall off.

I then add +2dB at 15Hz with a Q=4.32 which 'fills in' from 15 up to ≈25Hz using a separate parametric EQ.

Pipe organ, electronic bass and drums, big (6') drums in orchestral works and more, are as Darth Vader would say, 'IMPRESSIVE'.

And as I mentioned I can feel it in my chest and head.

JJ


----------



## headwhacker

johnjen said:


> No, not my jaw.
> But my whole head and chest, yes.
> I can't explain how.
> 
> JJ


 
  
 HD800 can indeed rumble. Maybe only those extreme bass head calls this headphone thin/bass light.


----------



## xp9433

johnjen said:


> I'm running Sonarworks Ref 3 plug-in with flat response down to 25Hz where it just starts to fall off.
> 
> I then add +2dB at 15Hz with a Q=4.32 which 'fills in' from 15 up to ≈25Hz using a separate parametric EQ.
> 
> ...


 

 johnjen
  
 Does the Sonarworks plug-in boost the bass below 100Hz as per the Harman recommended headphone response?
   
Cheers and thanks

 Frank


----------



## MattTCG

thenewguy007 said:


> I can't imagine how the 650 can do anything better than the HE-500 & LCD2?
> Those two are roided up 650 cans, they are supposed to do everything the 650 does, only better.


 
  
 The 650 is much closer to the lcd2 than most would think. Lcd2 scales only modestly where the 650 scales impressively. I would call the he500 the better headphone over the 650 until you get to comfort...read below.  For me, the 650 and 800 make the perfect pair of complementary cans. It would be nice if there was a closed hp in there somewhere, but that's where the Ether C comes in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





tmraven said:


> 650 does comfort better.


----------



## whirlwind

matttcg said:


> thenewguy007 said:
> 
> 
> > I can't imagine how the 650 can do anything better than the HE-500 & LCD2?
> ...


 
 I also think the 650 & 800 make for a nice compliment to each other.
  
 I am thinking, I would probably like the sound of the LCD 2....but as soon as I see a pic....the first thing that comes to mind is.....wow!...I bet those are heavy  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Probably more so than most......I really value comfort, plus I am a head bobber and foot tapper....so anything heavy is not an option


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Yes, comfort is now at the top of my list. And the 650/800 are two of the most comfortable cans I've ever owned, but in different ways. The 650 can be a little clampy, which I like. The 800 just gently molds to the contour of my head like I had an impression made of my head and Sennheiser made the 800 especially for me.


----------



## Sorrodje

Yup. Another vote for HD650/800 pairing.  when both cans are optimized and well driven, I really think they're more similar that different  although they shine at best for different musics. If I was restricted to only one headphone,  I'd still stick to my HD800 though. it matches better  the most part of what I listen to and music I like where the 650 outshines the 800 are pretty rare.  
  
  
 Whos's using a Geek Out v2 From LH labs  here ? I find the result outstandingly good when I use in balanced mode for both the HD650 and the 800.  That's almost incredible for a so small and usb powered dac/amp .


----------



## MattTCG

^^ If it came down to just one of the two, I might go with the 650 actually. The mids on the 650 just make me melt every time. I listen to a lot of acoustic pieces and vocals with minimal accompaniment. Plus I'm cheap and the 650 wins that contest by a long shot.


----------



## Sorrodje

Yea. I listen mostly to instrumental acoustic music (Contemporary Jazz, Classical) and Electronic music. If I were more into vocal , Classic Jazz for example, I'd probably use more my 650 .  i'm pleased to come back to some music I didn't listen anymore thanks to the 650 though.  90s electronic music , Big beat or french touch House , a few vocals as well.  
  
 Seems I'm done for headphones . Senn & Stax rules at home for me.  I love to take a plunge into electrostat sound sometimes.


----------



## MattTCG

I've spent a fair bit of time auditioning stats. I'll take the best dynamic driver and planar headphones over stats I suppose. If transparency is your thing then go for stats.


----------



## Sorrodje

It's just that I love the very specific Stat sound. Dunno if I'll buy or not a SR007/9 because lambdas provide a very typical stat sound I enjoy sometimes and IME  SR009's sound is not as typical.


----------



## whirlwind

I would definitely keep the 800 over the 650.......but for the price of the 650 now days....it is not going anywhere......I got rid of it once and bought it back...it has a place in my listening habits for sure and like Matt said....damn it scales so well...it got a nice bump in performance with my new amp.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

thenewguy007 said:


> If I knew there was ANY amp that could get the HD800 close to the rumble/impact/physical feel of the sub-bass of the Fostex TH-900, I would break the bank getting it.


 
  
  


ubs28 said:


> Use an EQ?


 

 ubs28, I was thinking the same thing. Granted, some of the difference may be the open vs closed nature of the two headphones, but distorting reality may be easier to achieve with EQ.


----------



## Taowolf51

mynameisdan said:


> Random observation I've had with my HD800's the past few weeks: I know a lot of the summit-fi community dogs on the HD800's for "exaggerating" the soundstage with "artificial" imaging and other words that make it seem like the ring diaphragm somehow makes its portrayal of music dishonest.


 
  
 I find it strange, since I honestly can't say that the HD800's soundstage is anywhere near as big as most people describe. Sure, it's bigger than most headphones, but not by a large margin. Plus, any decent speaker setup has a soundstage that's a few orders of magnitude larger than the HD800's.
  


whirlwind said:


> I also think the 650 & 800 make for a nice compliment to each other.
> 
> I am thinking, I would probably like the sound of the LCD 2....but as soon as I see a pic....the first thing that comes to mind is.....wow!...I bet those are heavy
> 
> ...


 
  
 They're definitely pretty damn heavy, and if you buy the leather headband, there's just about no padding on it either. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It's the only headphone I've owned that was so uncomfortable it gave me headaches.
  
 I sold mine because of comfort/weight issues, then ran into a great deal on a pair of HD800's. Best audio decision I've ever made!
  


matttcg said:


> The 800 just gently molds to the contour of my head like I had an impression made of my head and Sennheiser made the 800 especially for me.


 
  
 I get that feeling as well, it's really impressive! Every square inch of padding touches my head and distributes weight pretty darn evenly (with the exception of a very minor hot spot on the top of my head, but my pads are in dire need of replacement).
 I can't think of another headphone that has the same clever headband shape of the HD800 (which contributes the most to that "custom molded" feeling IMO).
  


sorrodje said:


> It's just that I love the very specific Stat sound. Dunno if I'll buy or not a SR007/9 because lambdas provide a very typical stat sound I enjoy sometimes and IME  SR009's sound is not as typical.


 
  
 Stats could never really be a primary headphone for me because they don't have as much texture as planars and dynamics, especially the HD800 (I'm a huge texturehead), but I do love how stats have the ability to just make music "appear". They're the best at the "no box sound" and do such an excellent job with acoustic music.


----------



## JaZZ

taowolf51 said:


> Stats could never really be a primary headphone for me because they don't have as much texture as planars and dynamics, especially the HD800 (I'm a huge texturehead), but I do love how stats have the ability to just make music "appear". They're the best at the "no box sound" and do such an excellent job with acoustic music.


 
  
 Yes, that's how I perceive it as well. Their (relative) lack of texture makes you think their resolution be far superior. This trick works quite well until you think there's some engagement missing. After all they make for a relaxed listening and some fascination now and then. That's why my two pairs aren't catching dust.


----------



## iDesign

Although I prefer the HD-600 to the HD-650, I feel the HD-650 is a better compliment to the HD-800. I am unable to use the HD-800 for long periods of time or with low quality recordings and thats why I also own the HD-650. I recently purchased a new pair of the updated HD-650 headphones and I feel they are not as bright as the earlier version of the HD-650 I owned. Interestingly many of the impressions posted on Head-Fi have stated that the updated HD-650 is brighter but have not observed this. If I could own just one Sennheiser headphone it would be the HD-600 for its superior comfort and all around performance.


----------



## Sorrodje

taowolf51 said:


> Stats could never really be a primary headphone for me because they don't have as much texture as planars and dynamics, especially the HD800 (I'm a huge texturehead), but I do love how stats have the ability to just make music "appear". They're the best at the "no box sound" and do such an excellent job with acoustic music.


 
  
  


jazz said:


> Yes, that's how I perceive it as well. Their (relative) lack of texture makes you think their resolution be far superior. This trick works quite well until you think there's some engagement missing. After all they make for a relaxed listening and some fascination now and then. That's why my two pairs aren't catching dust.


 
  
 Same feelings here. 
  
 The fact is when my HD800 had spent some time outside , the only headphones I could really use as a replacement was a Stax. I haven't the HD650 yet but even so, I couldn't use the 650 as  a subsitute for my HD800


----------



## johnjen

xp9433 said:


> johnjen
> 
> Does the Sonarworks plug-in boost the bass below 100Hz as per the Harman recommended headphone response?
> 
> ...


Yes the normal 'average' compensation does boost the bass, or more accurately it flattens the FR curve down to 35Hz.
But no it doesn't follow the harmon curves.
But there are additional freq adjustments available.
A bass boost and a tilt control can pseudo mimic portions of the harmon curve.

I figure they will add more functionality to the Ref 3 plug-in with rev 2.

JJ


----------



## SearchOfSub

HD800 guys, Chord Mojo is out - anyone pair it together? From what I gather, it's a warm, intimate musical dac/amp. It should compliment the HD800 well, but there was a member who said it has a early rolloff and decay which would be a bust with the HD800. But not sure because I never heard it myself. Anyone pair it together?


----------



## RudeWolf

xp9433 said:


> johnjen
> 
> Does the Sonarworks plug-in boost the bass below 100Hz as per the Harman recommended headphone response?
> 
> ...


 
  
 The flat one sees in the plug-in is not "microphone-flat", it's already compensated with our own curve which was developed to get a perceived tonal balance close to flat measuring speakers in a good studio. Not surprisingly our curve is fairly similar to what Harman has developed.
  
 And yes - most headphones require boosting the sub-bass region.


----------



## joespride

I am using the parametric EQ built in on JRMC,  I am slowly taking different stabs at where to boost and subtract, It allows me to enter pretty much any freq. and either cut or boost at pretty much any level
  
 Is there some standard out there one could take a look at and tweak from there ??  Links please if you know of any
  
  
 Currently I have mine set at 
  
 100hz + 0.5db
 80 hz + 1 db
 60 hz + 1.5 db
 40 hz + 2 db
 20 hz + 3 db
  
 also 
 5000hz -1db
 6000hz -1db
 7000hz -1db
  
 I also have the anax mod, I chose the freq above based on my freq response graph, anyone have any suggestions ?


----------



## MattTCG

searchofsub said:


> HD800 guys, Chord Mojo is out - anyone pair it together? From what I gather, it's a warm, intimate musical dac/amp. It should compliment the HD800 well, but there was a member who said it has a early rolloff and decay which would be a bust with the HD800. But not sure because I never heard it myself. Anyone pair it together?


 
  
 I got an audition with the pair last week and in short, I was impressed. There was warmth and the sound was quite musical. It was a brief audition but I'll give it a thumbs up.


----------



## Youth

For people who has heard both the HE-560 and HD800, which of the 2 has the smoothest/least sibilant treble would you say? If you have tried the Anaxilus mod with HD800 please state so.


----------



## TMRaven

Both are equally prone to sibilance, but in different ways.  Some tracks showcase sibilance more than others depending on the phone.  This is because the 560 has a hump around 4-5khz, while HD800 has a spike around 6khz.  However, the nature of the HD800's treble is that it's a bit smoother and more controlled than the 560's, even though there's more of it.  The Anax mod (at least the variant posted in IF) takes off about 3db of treble around 6khz, and helps quite a bit.
  
 I haven't been able to compare 560 vs anax modded 800, though I'm guessing they're still quite close.
  
 Also, all my impressions of the 560 are with Focus-A.  560 with regular Focus pads isn't too good IMO.


----------



## AlanU

youth said:


> For people who has heard both the HE-560 and HD800, which of the 2 has the smoothest/least sibilant treble would you say? If you have tried the Anaxilus mod with HD800 please state so.


 
 After performing "my" version of the Anaxilus mod  I doubt I can go back to stock form. The mod has tamed the headphones. 
  
 Hearing the complaints of the HE-560 in the comfort department I have not even bothered to try "yet". The HD800 has been  extremely comfortable during chill sessions listening to the headphones. If the HE-560 is similar to the rest of the  Hifiman family this is not a HP on my wishlist.
  
 The headphone mod is one thing but the rest of the headphone chain also plays a major roll. This is where simply doing the Anaxilus mod is one step in transforming the sound character  you "prefer".


----------



## Youth

tmraven said:


> Both are equally prone to sibilance, but in different ways.  Some tracks showcase sibilance more than others depending on the phone.  This is because the 560 has a hump around 4-5khz, while HD800 has a spike around 6khz.  However, the nature of the HD800's treble is that it's a bit smoother and more controlled than the 560's, even though there's more of it.  The Anax mod (at least the variant posted in IF) takes off about 3db of treble around 6khz, and helps quite a bit.
> 
> I haven't been able to compare 560 vs anax modded 800, though I'm guessing they're still quite close.
> 
> Also, all my impressions of the 560 are with Focus-A.  560 with regular Focus pads isn't too good IMO.


 
  
 I see. So stock HE-560 without Focus-A pads are worse than stock HD800? I have tried T1/T1.2 and the treble was too much. I have the HE-560 home for testing without Focus-A pads and eventhough the treble is smoother than T1/T1.2 it is still bothering me a bit. I would guess that the HD800 with Anax mod would suit me fine. After all, Tyll doesn't like bright headphones but with the Anax mod the HD800 becomes one of his favourites. I guess I will have to try it sometime. How is the bass quantity on HD800 compared to HE-560? If it doesn't work out with HD800 I will have to put my faith in the new HE-X.
  
 On another note, I hear Norne Draug 2 can help on the HD800 treble as well.  
  
 I know HD800 are very picky with gear. I'm gonna use Audio-gd DAC 19 and Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon. The headphones will have balanced Norne Audio Draug 2 cables.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

youth said:


> I see. So stock HE-560 without Focus-A pads are worse than stock HD800? I have tried T1/T1.2 and the treble was too much. I have the HE-560 home for testing without Focus-A pads and eventhough the treble is smoother than T1/T1.2 it is still bothering me a bit. I would guess that the HD800 with Anax mod would suit me fine. After all, Tyll doesn't like bright headphones but with the Anax mod the HD800 becomes one of his favourites. I guess I will have to try it sometime. How is the bass quantity on HD800 compared to HE-560? If it doesn't work out with HD800 I will have to put my faith in the new HE-X.
> 
> On another note, I hear Norne Draug 2 can help on the HD800 treble as well.
> 
> I know HD800 are very picky with gear. I'm gonna use Audio-gd DAC 19 and Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon. The headphones will have balanced Norne Audio Draug 2 cables.




I have both a modded 560 with Draug 2 Cable (though it will be shipping out today) and an HD800 with the Anax Mod. Really both are great headphones, if I was just building a headphone system, I would have no problem going with the 560s. Though the mods do improve the sound dramatically, my Buyer is getting a nicely finished product. 

Your DAC19 and LC should be a great match with the HD800 or 560, really a great amp/DAC for about anything short of an HE6.


----------



## Moonhead

Youth.. 
  
 Where are you located in DK?


----------



## TMRaven

youth said:


> I see. So stock HE-560 without Focus-A pads are worse than stock HD800? I have tried T1/T1.2 and the treble was too much. I have the HE-560 home for testing without Focus-A pads and eventhough the treble is smoother than T1/T1.2 it is still bothering me a bit. I would guess that the HD800 with Anax mod would suit me fine. After all, Tyll doesn't like bright headphones but with the Anax mod the HD800 becomes one of his favourites. I guess I will have to try it sometime. How is the bass quantity on HD800 compared to HE-560? If it doesn't work out with HD800 I will have to put my faith in the new HE-X.
> 
> On another note, I hear Norne Draug 2 can help on the HD800 treble as well.
> 
> I know HD800 are very picky with gear. I'm gonna use Audio-gd DAC 19 and Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon. The headphones will have balanced Norne Audio Draug 2 cables.


 

 The bass is comparable.  The HD800 has a little more mid-bass, while the 560 has a little more low-bass.  If I were to scale them, 1 being an AD700, and 10 being an LCD-X, I'd put the HE-560 at a 7, and the HD-800 at a 5.5 maybe.


----------



## devilboy

When I auditioned the 560 and X, my conclusions matched TMRaven's. The X's bass just sounded too unrealistic. Just seemed like it was too much and it didn't sound as real and articulate as my 800s. From what I remember the 560 had deeper bass with more weight. Like I said in another post on another thread, other headphones will go deeper but there is a magic and a "rightness" to the 800.


----------



## Taowolf51

joespride said:


> I am using the parametric EQ built in on JRMC,  I am slowly taking different stabs at where to boost and subtract, It allows me to enter pretty much any freq. and either cut or boost at pretty much any level
> 
> Is there some standard out there one could take a look at and tweak from there ??  Links please if you know of any
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you're using a parametric EQ, don't have a ton of different bands next to each other, instead just make one band with a lower Q value. A bunch of bands with thinner Q values will lead to  the EQ looking wavy or wiggly with bumps in the frequency response, but one band with a higher Q value will lead to a smoother slope. For instance, I have a single band at 10Hz with a Q value of 0.3, this leads to the smooth bass curve from 10-100Hz that you see in this image (that curve is the EQ compensation, not the final frequency response). This example is only 5 bands (and without them that green line would be perfectly flat).
  

  
 The Q value is how sharp or wide you want the band to be, so you see the small dip at 6.5k is a higher Q value (3) leading to a sharper dip. Compare this to the bass boost (basically compensating for the bass rolloff of the HD800) which has a Q value of 0.3, and is much wider.
  
 My advice would be to get some kind of way to visualize what changes you are making to the frequency response, it makes working with the EQ so much easier (I'm using Peace, which is for Equalizer APO). Also, look at your sennheiser graph, its frequencies are limited, so I would supplement it with Tyll's measurements which go down to 10Hz.
  
 If you want, I can give you my values to give you a jumping off point.


----------



## joespride

taowolf51 said:


> If you're using a parametric EQ, don't have a ton of different bands next to each other, instead just make one band with a lower Q value. A bunch of bands with thinner Q values will lead to  the EQ looking wavy or wiggly with bumps in the frequency response, but one band with a higher Q value will lead to a smoother slope. For instance, I have a single band at 10Hz with a Q value of 0.3, this leads to the smooth bass curve from 10-100Hz that you see in this image (that curve is the EQ compensation, not the final frequency response). This example is only 5 bands (and without them that green line would be perfectly flat).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes that would be great to get a start point, Really appreciate the time you took to write the response I am still trying to absorb it


----------



## Taowolf51

joespride said:


> Yes that would be great to get a start point, Really appreciate the time you took to write the response I am still trying to absorb it


 
  
 It's a bit strange at first, but once you get the basics, it's surprisingly logical. Getting a visual representation of your EQ is vital IMO to making the best EQ you can (my EQ had some issues until I got Peace, which has a visual element).
  
 My EQ is:
  
 Preamplification: -7db (preamplification is important because it allows you to raise and lower frequencies at will with the EQ, then globally reduce everything to prevent distortion or clipping (you technically never want to "boost" anything in the end, and the preamp compensates for any boosts you do make), I would always preamp at negative your greatest boost or negative your greatest boost +1. For example, my largest boost is +6db, so I preamplify at -7db to compensate).
  
 1. 10Hz    +6db    0.3Q    (this band compensates for bass rolloff)
  
 2. 1000Hz    +1.5db    0.3Q    (this band adds a slight rise up to 1kHz, which as discussed by Tyll and Bob Katz adds a lot to midrange and vocal presence, which I agree with, it's a small boost but it makes a big difference)
  
 3. 2000Hz    +2db    1.41Q    (this band helps with that immediate dip from 1.5k to 4k. It doesn't fully compensate for it, but instead makes the dip smoother and less immediate, rolls pretty well into the 6.5k compensation)
  
 4. 6500Hz    -2db    3Q    (this band reduces the well known 6.5k spike. This was made for an Anax modded HD800, so if yours is not modded, you may want to increase the strength of this band)
  
 5. 15000Hz    -2db    1Q    (this band just smooths the upper treble a bit. It's nowhere near as early or as intense as the Harman curve, so the HD800 retains its great upper treble. I can still hear up to 19kHz with this EQ applied, so it's pretty mild)


----------



## joespride

I can see I have a bit to learn, input your EQ settings exactly and overall much smoother sounding still retains plenty of extension, Bass sounds much better
  
  
 I really appreciate the help,  The 800 just took another step up


----------



## SearchOfSub

No problem Joe!


----------



## sp3llv3xit

joespride said:


> I am using the parametric EQ built in on JRMC,  I am slowly taking different stabs at where to boost and subtract, It allows me to enter pretty much any freq. and either cut or boost at pretty much any level
> 
> Is there some standard out there one could take a look at and tweak from there ??  Links please if you know of any
> 
> ...


 



 I left the 3 kHz up untouched.

 20 Hz and 40 Hz both got a 3 dB boost. 

 800 Hz 1 dB.

 Always a firm believer in making the most of whatever tool is available.


----------



## xp9433

taowolf51 said:


> My advice would be to get some kind of way to visualize what changes you are making to the frequency response, it makes working with the EQ so much easier (I'm using Peace, which is for Equalizer APO). Also, look at your sennheiser graph, its frequencies are limited, so I would supplement it with Tyll's measurements which go down to 10Hz.


 
  
 Taowolf51
  
 Thanks for your heads up on the Peace Equalizer APO. I downloaded the softeware and found it much better for modelling equalizer setting than the program I was using before.
  
 Cheers
 Frank


----------



## henkie196

alanu said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> youth said:
> ...


 
 I'm apparently not very sensitive to sibilance, as I've not noticed any with either of the headphones. Less than my speakers in combination with the current amp and DAC, for sure. I've found my HE-560 to have somewhat recessed mids and my HD800 seems to have a slight bump somewhere in the lower treble. In general terms, I think the HD800 sounds a bit brighter than neutral, whereas the HE-560 is a bit darker. If treble was an issue, I'd say the HE-560 is a bit safer choice. This is with the stock pads for the HE-560 and an unmodded HD800.
  
 Comfortwise, the HE-560 typically becomes a bit painful on my cheekbones after a few hours, due to the clamping force. The suspension headband is supremely comfortable, though. The HD800 has bigger shells and is not quite as warm on my ears, which is good. There is no discomfort from the pads, but the headband becomes quite painful on the top of my head, and I have to take it off after an hour or two and take a break for half an hour or so. For my head, I find the HE-560 more comfortable, simply because the HD800 headband becomes so painful. I have short hair, though, this may make a difference.


----------



## TokenGesture

All this talk of equalisation has me intrigued for sure . Does anyone have a good recommendation for an EQ program to use on a Mac with Amarra? ( Amarra has only a 3 band EQ)


----------



## HiAudio

It seems that some peopler using those equalizing gear to flatten or modify the sound. How much improvement can be gained? at what expense? Is it easy to do?


----------



## shultzee

tokengesture said:


> All this talk of equalisation has me intrigued for sure . Does anyone have a good recommendation for an EQ program to use on a Mac with Amarra? ( Amarra has only a 3 band EQ)


 

 I use Amarra as well.  I can't quite get a grip on the parametric equalizer they use.   If you do use iTunes you can link the Amarra equalizer to the iTunes equalizer through Amarra preferences.
  
 On another note I also use Decibel on my mac.  Great music player for Mac's that can be found in the app store.    Easy to use and also plays flac files. Decibel has a awesome 31 band equalizer that is easy to use and set up to your liking.


----------



## punit

shultzee said:


> Decibel has a awesome 31 band equalizer that is easy to use and set up to your liking.


 
 So does Pure Music (which I use)


----------



## gnomen

Pure Music has an equalizer?  I use PM all the time -- lovely player -- but I have never noticed that.  How do you access it from the menu system?  Thanks.


----------



## AlanU

henkie196 said:


> I'm apparently not very sensitive to sibilance, as I've not noticed any with either of the headphones. Less than my speakers in combination with the current amp and DAC, for sure. I've found my HE-560 to have somewhat recessed mids and my HD800 seems to have a slight bump somewhere in the lower treble. In general terms, I think the HD800 sounds a bit brighter than neutral, whereas the HE-560 is a bit darker. If treble was an issue, I'd say the HE-560 is a bit safer choice. This is with the stock pads for the HE-560 and an unmodded HD800.
> 
> Comfortwise, the HE-560 typically becomes a bit painful on my cheekbones after a few hours, due to the clamping force. The suspension headband is supremely comfortable, though. The HD800 has bigger shells and is not quite as warm on my ears, which is good. There is no discomfort from the pads, but the headband becomes quite painful on the top of my head, and I have to take it off after an hour or two and take a break for half an hour or so. For my head, I find the HE-560 more comfortable, simply because the HD800 headband becomes so painful. I have short hair, though, this may make a difference.


 
  
 Perhaps I'll have to test out an HE-560. I do like a darker sound for some of my music. 
  
 The HD800 is a very energetic dynamic headphone. This is where i can see many folks saying the HD650 is a nice set of HP to pair with the HD800. To my ears the HD650 is a heavier sounding transducer that has a smaller intimate soundstage. This is where the HD800 seems to be borderline unrealistic in the massive soundstage it produces. I still feel that every headphone excels in different genre's. The HD800 can work extremely well with electronica and has somewhat organic realism with female jazz vocals. The Hd650 cannot keep up as well with electronica compared to the HD800. 

 I do find this headphone world intriguing that many accept the use of an equalizer as a part of the chain of events in the headphone rig. This is certainly the most cheapest form of tweaking to create a sound to cater to each individual. Coming from 2 channel Hifi world I don't think this is a highly acceptable practice of software/hardware equalizers. This is where different school of thoughts apply in how dac/amp/speaker(headphones) have a certain synergy that either works or does not work for the individual. 
  
 I may give this cheap equalizer tweak a try.....


----------



## AlanU

shultzee said:


> I use Amarra as well.  I can't quite get a grip on the parametric equalizer they use.   If you do use iTunes you can link the Amarra equalizer to the iTunes equalizer through Amarra preferences.
> 
> On another note I also use Decibel on my mac.  Great music player for Mac's that can be found in the app store.    Easy to use and also plays flac files. Decibel has a awesome 31 band equalizer that is easy to use and set up to your liking.


 
  Is the equalizer capable of tightening the soundstage??
  
 When I had the Concero HD paired with the HD800 the music was pure ultra clean digital sounding. Even with the "Magenta" (first filter) the sound of string instruments did not have a long tail in note decay. "Blue" pure bit mode was very energetic and too digital sounding  for jazzy female vocals. The Concero HD has a house sound of creating a huge "open" soundstage regardless of what is the input. I was using a stello U3 trying to soften and tame the sound and it did help a bit. 
  
 So far my observation in this topic of equalizer is that it only creates certain changes in the characteristics of the sound. The equalizer cannot introduce the harmonics lost when the music was converted from analog to digital form. This is where the DAC carry's alot of weight in the presentation of the music.
  
 I guess this entire discussion is also based on the primary genre individuals listen too.


----------



## RudeWolf

alanu said:


> Is the equalizer capable of tightening the soundstage??


 
  
 Of course! When we do headphone calibration, we can account for channel-to-channel AFR differences. The M50x for example have different responses in the low mids, which can cause some instruments to shift in the soundstage, if they happen to occupy the imbalanced region. Correct that and the stage tightens up!


----------



## AlanU

rudewolf said:


> Of course! When we do headphone calibration, we can account for channel-to-channel AFR differences. The M50x for example have different responses in the low mids, which can cause some instruments to shift in the soundstage, if they happen to occupy the imbalanced region. Correct that and the stage tightens up!


 
 Seriously that's fascinating that you can do that with and EQ!!


----------



## Taowolf51

xp9433 said:


> Taowolf51
> 
> Thanks for your heads up on the Peace Equalizer APO. I downloaded the softeware and found it much better for modelling equalizer setting than the program I was using before.
> 
> ...


 
  
 No problem! Peace was a recent discovery and really helped me dial my EQ in. Originally, I was using straight Equalizer APO, where you basically just enter a bunch of values into a text document and hope for the best. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


hiaudio said:


> It seems that some peopler using those equalizing gear to flatten or modify the sound. How much improvement can be gained? at what expense? Is it easy to do?


 
  
 That really depends on you, and how you feel about the HD800's frequency response. What's nice about equalization is that with a little time and fiddling, you can make the frequency response exactly how you want it. To some people, correction is immensely useful, and to others it's not as big of a difference. Personally, I wouldn't want to be without my corrections with my HD800, and I'm definitely going to be using equalization whenever needed in the future.
 The expense depends on what you want from it. If you are using a Windows computer, there are a bunch of free options including the Peace/Equalizer APO combo, which is what I use. If you have a mac, usually the plugins cost a bit of money, but nothing crazy (maybe $50). Another option is picking up a MiniDSP and grabbing their parametric EQ plugin, which would cost $110. If you don't have a computer in your signal chain, you would need something physical like the MiniDSP.
 Parametric EQ's are a bit confusing at first, but it's not too hard to understand once you start using it (and get a visual representation of what each band is doing). The big benefit of parametric EQ's over traditional graphic EQ's is quality and control. I think it's very worthwhile going down the parametric EQ road rather than graphic EQ if you do decide to try equalization. I have my current EQ settings listed on the bottom post on the last page with little explanations of each, you can use that as a jumping off point if you'd like (or just use part of it).
  


alanu said:


> I do find this headphone world intriguing that many accept the use of an equalizer as a part of the chain of events in the headphone rig. This is certainly the most cheapest form of tweaking to create a sound to cater to each individual. Coming from 2 channel Hifi world I don't think this is a highly acceptable practice of software/hardware equalizers. This is where different school of thoughts apply in how dac/amp/speaker(headphones) have a certain synergy that either works or does not work for the individual.


 
  
 I was under the impression that speaker-heads were more accepting of DSP in general (mostly for correcting for room issues)? I guess there are different parties in both groups.


----------



## shultzee

alanu said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > I use Amarra as well.  I can't quite get a grip on the parametric equalizer they use.   If you do use iTunes you can link the Amarra equalizer to the iTunes equalizer through Amarra preferences.
> ...


 

 I use the second magenta filter (anodizing).   I actually am and have been a fan of the ES9018m2 chip.  I think Resonessence really gets it right.  I agree the soundstage is massive and the mj2 amp with good tubes takes a little edge off the HD800's, but it still haves a lot of punch , and that fits my style.  Also of note, my HD800's are modded.


----------



## joespride

Multibit Bifrost is in the house, playing for about 5 hours sounds very good, however not better than the Havana IMHO,  they sound VERY CLOSE but the HD800 exposes a slight edge to the Bifrost when compared to Havana..............I really wanted to keep the bifrost as It would be awesome to find a SS dac that offers the SQ of the Havana
  
 It will really boil down to preference and options as to which dac people will choose
  
 Personally I prefer the total lack of any edge to the music, which is probably the fact that I came from an analog age and vinyl was my main source
  
 I plan to give the frost a bit longer maybe it will loose that edge in which case it might be able to unseat Havana


----------



## joespride

The HD800 has struck again, with its supreme resolution it shows just the smallest bit of edginess on the Bifrost Multibit, which if that remains it is a deal breaker for me.........The Havana is like liquid gold with no trace of fatigue, after 4 hours on Bifrost Multibit with breaks I began to notice some fatigue setting in ......Put the Havana back in and the lack of the slight edge was apparent
  
 without the 2 side by side I doubt most would notice


----------



## SearchOfSub

oh I totally notice the difference already by your review!


----------



## joespride

searchofsub said:


> oh I totally notice the difference already by your review!


 
 ?,  I have written no review, only ongoing impressions of the new Multibit Bifrost.


----------



## Taowolf51

joespride said:


> The HD800 has struck again, with its supreme resolution it shows just the smallest bit of edginess on the Bifrost Multibit, which if that remains it is a deal breaker for me.........The Havana is like liquid gold with no trace of fatigue, after 4 hours on Bifrost Multibit with breaks I began to notice some fatigue setting in ......Put the Havana back in and the lack of the slight edge was apparent
> 
> without the 2 side by side I doubt most would notice


 
  
 You using your Kenzie with the Multibit?


----------



## joespride

Tube, its based on the darling circuit,  Link Below. 
  
 http://ampsandsound.com/products/custom-amps/kenzie-headphone-amp/


----------



## gnomen

Still checking out DAC/Amps for my new HD800s.  Here is a quick update: yesterday I went to audition the Bel Canto DAC 2.7 at a nearby hi-fi dealer.  It is a very nice DAC with a good headphone amp circuit included.  I found it very detailed, secure, good at all frequencies and with all materials.  Not troubled by complex orchestral passages.  Pleasing sound, full of detail, and neither too dark or too bright.  The presentation was a little laid back, rather than involving like the Hugo, something about which I am still pondering. 
  
 The real star of the visit was what happened next.  The dealer is preparing for a high-end audio show and had the TAD D1000 DAC and matching “bookshelf” speakers hooked up.  The TAD D1000 retails around £12,000 and was simply astonishing compared to anything else I have heard using the HD800s (or anything else).  In fact it was so good it easily revealed the mixing and sound production techniques of the source material, even for demonstration tracks like Chesky’s recording of Rebecca Pidgeon singing Spanish Harlem.  The D1000 did this without being unkind or too analytical — it simply took the concept of transparency to a new level.  Later we listened through the speakers, which were similarly amazing.  While their format is that of “large bookshelf” speakers on stands they had no trouble reproducing the deepest bass and could bring into the room all the resolution of the headphones.  Probably the first time I have heard the same intimacy of detail from headphones repeated in a room setting.  At a mere £18,000 a pair + the power amplifier (I did not ask) the “entry level” TAD system easily matches a Mercedes S Class in price.  Wealthy people have so many lovely things on which to spend their money.   Sigh!


----------



## AlanU

joespride said:


> The HD800 has struck again, with its supreme resolution it shows just the smallest bit of edginess on the Bifrost Multibit, which if that remains it is a deal breaker for me.........The Havana is like liquid gold with no trace of fatigue, after 4 hours on Bifrost Multibit with breaks I began to notice some fatigue setting in ......Put the Havana back in and the lack of the slight edge was apparent
> 
> without the 2 side by side I doubt most would notice


 
  Sounds like you have a winning combo for your ears. I can see how your combo working as a digital machine that outputs analog bliss.
  
 As I've played around with a handful of SS dac's I've discovered that each and every manufacturer has a distinct sound signature as they build the circuitry.The high and low frequencies can be accentuated.  
  
 I'm still casually hunting for a nice solid state dac. The Schiit yggdrasil  is well over $3000 CDN if I order one. Even though it's cheaper than my current 2 channel Tube dac I'm still doubtful it will be as liquid as my Space tech Labs 2 part system DAC (separate power supply/dac section). I've replaced the tiny 6x5gt rectifier on my tube dac and purchased a totally separate power supply  (super rectifier) unit using 300B and 572B tubes or many other rectifier tubes. I'm currently using mercury vapor filled tubes that glows blue!!
  
 Listening to Chris Botti with solid state dacs I've find the music to have precise instrument separation and can be fatiguing depending on the dac (or system combo). Indeed if you do not have a point of reference between different gear (swapping dacs) this may sounds great.
  
 When a person listens to live performances "you" can pinpoint the instruments in your seating area but the music does blend without a laser pinpoint of direction. With live music you also hear the room acoustics as well.  This becomes a blend of sounds rather than hyper detail pinpointing exact location of vocals/instruments. Vinyl and tubes can be very holographic.
  
 I've observed that  we have been accepting music in our homes in a different manner. You'll often hear comments of people discussing hyper/transparent details of instrument separation etc. This is the age of solid state sound and that depending on your age....you accept as "normal". 
  
 Vinyl to me has a different approach in presenting music. This is where some may feel it lacks the punch of solid state. Tubes also has a different way of presenting  music. So far I have yet to hear a reasonably priced solid state system that has holographic engagement. Possibly because it lacks the conversion.  The digital solid state world has to convert D to Analog which is a difficult task of filling in the harmonics lost when the analog music is converted to ditigal. 
  
 Since the HD800 is a very fast dynamic headphone I can see how people seek a systems synergy to take the edge off. However there are some that seek incredible hyper detail. 
  
 I did a test using my concero HD, Burson DA160 DAC as well as my Burson virtuoso 1793 and tube dac using my HD800. Listening to Midori (violinist) she also has many albums called Earth tones and other relaxation themes. One thing I find extremely difficult is to create realistic sound is ocean waves. With my current SS dac's not one of them could even come close in believable realistic sounds like my tube dac. The HD800 fast characteristic transformed into organic holographic sound with note decay. Add piano to the mix and there is no doubt the SS dacs I have (or owned) does NOT have true to life note decay of a real piano like my tube setup.  

 I'm curious how many folks use solid state or tubes/vinyl using the HD800
  
 This stuff is such a sick hobby!!!


----------



## joespride

Sick Hobby to be sure,  My wallet feels ill 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I don't have the vocabulary to explain the differences I hear, to me the Havana with Kenzie and HD800 sounds superb there is no gritty edge, no fatigue some vocals are almost haunting in that they seem so real and close it forces me to look around (Tony Joe White,  Ol Mother Earth),  Strings are very natural (to me) it is great to  hear the pluck along with the body of the instrument through decay
  
 I am starting to think I can equate the HD800 sound with that of horn speakers, They seem to present a huge presence like Horns, and unlike any other Headphone I have Heard


----------



## Youth

wildcatsare1 said:


> I have both a modded 560 with Draug 2 Cable (though it will be shipping out today) and an HD800 with the Anax Mod. Really both are great headphones, if I was just building a headphone system, I would have no problem going with the 560s. Though the mods do improve the sound dramatically, my Buyer is getting a nicely finished product.
> 
> Your DAC19 and LC should be a great match with the HD800 or 560, really a great amp/DAC for about anything short of an HE6.


 
  
 I heare good stuff about Draug 2 cable so I must have one myself. Or maybe more... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Oh, you would choose the HE-560 over Anax HD800? That's interesting. 
  
 DAC 19 is amazing and reading impressions LC will indeed make it a great pair I think. Finally I can begin to focus on headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


moonhead said:


> Youth..
> 
> Where are you located in DK?


 
  
 PM'd 
  
  


tmraven said:


> The bass is comparable.  The HD800 has a little more mid-bass, while the 560 has a little more low-bass.  If I were to scale them, 1 being an AD700, and 10 being an LCD-X, I'd put the HE-560 at a 7, and the HD-800 at a 5.5 maybe.


 
  
 I need to listen to the HD800 again but from memory they could benefit from a little more bass. Same with HE-560. Just a tiny bit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I need to get a hold on a pair of Anax modded HD800 somehow. HE-560 has been crossed off the list. 
  


devilboy said:


> When I auditioned the 560 and X, my conclusions matched TMRaven's. The X's bass just sounded too unrealistic. Just seemed like it was too much and it didn't sound as real and articulate as my 800s. From what I remember the 560 had deeper bass with more weight. Like I said in another post on another thread, other headphones will go deeper but there is a magic and a "rightness" to the 800.


 
  
 I can hear I will need to test these babies out at some point.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^No actually just sold my 560s, which was hard to do, I really loved those cans. They were just too close to the sq of the 800s. So now looking for a foil to the 800. Probably an LCD-3, X or Hifiman Edition X.


----------



## joespride

I am considering the Draug 2 for the 800's.......................if the Multibit sells or I end up returning it (whichever happens first) ................Based on all the positives heard here it sounds like a great match


----------



## MickeyVee

Exactly what I did and for the same reasons.  If I didn't have the HD800 at the time, I would have considered the HE560 close to end game.  HD800 still rules!
 Quote:


wildcatsare1 said:


> ^No actually just sold my 560s, which was hard to do, I really loved those cans. They were just too close to the sq of the 800s. So now looking for a foil to the 800. Probably an LCD-3, X or Hifiman Edition X.


----------



## ZekeAdebayo

Could anyone who has listened to the HIfiman HE-560 please give me detailed comparison between it and the HD800. What about compared to the HE-6?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

zekeadebayo said:


> Could anyone who has listened to the HIfiman HE-560 please give me detailed comparison between it and the HD800. What about compared to the HE-6?




I can give you a quick synopsis of the 800 vs. 560. Both have a neutral tuning, with a slight tip up at 6kHz, better tone and bass on the 560, soundstage and imaging is significantly superior on the 800. The better tone on the 560 isn't huge, it's still a little thin, hence my looking at the LCD-X, 3. The 800 scales better and end the end is a better can. Though I could easily live with the 560, it is the best bang for the dollar available. Hope this helps.


----------



## henkie196

zekeadebayo said:


> Could anyone who has listened to the HIfiman HE-560 please give me detailed comparison between it and the HD800. What about compared to the HE-6?


 
 I have both, and I would say they are mostly different flavours. They're both fairly neutral and detailed, and which you prefer would be mostly based on which tuning you prefer, I think.
  
 The HE-560 has more bass quantity / impact, but has a bit recessed mids. I've been told that my units may be abnormal in that respect (recessed mids), so YMMV.The HD800 tends more towards the bright side of things, with a bump somewhere in the lower treble, which, I suppose, is what many people don't like about it, and try to fix with EQ, amps, DACs and mods. I don't like it much either, but it doesn't bother me overly much. The HE-560 is supposed to have a hot treble as well, going on the reports of others, but I don't hear it.
  
 The HD800 is faster, with a really rapid attack and decay on the mids and treble. I suppose this adds to the impression of a big sound stage, though I'm not sure it's favourable for all music types. The HE-560 sounds a bit more laid back (or slower), though without being less detailed than the HD800.
  
 In a direct comparison between the two, the HD800 sounds a little light on the bass, though if I reset my brain by listening to my speakers for a bit, the bass on the HD800 seems fine.
  
 On lower volumes (which is my preferred volume level), the HD800's slightly brighter tuning makes them preferable to me, as it is easier for me to hear the little details without having to crank up the volume.
  
 Comfortwise, I find the HD800's big earcups very nice and they don't heat up my ears overly much. The headband presses uncomfortably on my head, though, and after an hour or two it becomes quite painful. If you have long hair, it may be less of a problem, I think. The HE-560's suspension headband is supremely comfortable for me, though the earcups are a bit smaller and warmer. The clamping force is bigger, too, which will start to be uncomfortable on my cheekbones after a few hours. On the whole, I find the HE-560 more comfortable. Or less painful, at least.


----------



## Moonhead

I use to own HE6, actually My first serious can and its a great headphones that to me was very bright up top just like some Beyer cans, but very musical with that warm Planar bass and lacking in realism next to HD800.
It was driven by one heavy cayin amp but in the end the unnatural treble and the lust to try something superior which HD800 is in every technical way even comfort is better, so for me it was a no brainier. 

Never listen to HE560 would like to some day, but I'm guessing it has issues in the treble to and there is a reason Why there is so much talk about HD800 that to me are the only can that comes close to Stax.


----------



## headwhacker

HE-560 is as neutral as HD800. Except 3D imaging and soundstage is bigger on HD800. HD800 has that nice depth and layer where HE-560 seems flat and lacking depth in comparison. I also think detail retrieval on HD800 sounds more natural on HD800 than on HE-560. 
  
 HE-6 has a beutiful low end which HD800 can't match. However, the bass on HD800 is just the right amount as a reference hedaphone. I think the treble on HE-6 is a bit on the harsh side compared to HD800. Imaging and depth to me is very close between HD800.
  
 Of all 3 headphone HD800 is the closest to a full speaker setup. HE-6 benefits from crossfeed and makes the soundtage appear in front of you instead of making me feel like listening to a separate L and R channels, while HE800 seems to sound mud with crossfeed on. I haven't tried HE-560 with crossfeed though


----------



## henkie196

headwhacker said:


> HE-560 is as neutral as HD800. Except 3D imaging and soundstage is bigger on HD800. HD800 has that nice depth and layer where HE-560 seems flat and lacking depth in comparison. I also think detail retrieval on HD800 sounds more natural on HD800 than on HE-560.


 
 Both are perhaps neutral-ish, but in different ways.
  
 Sometimes the HD800 just seems to tear the music apart for me, leaving me listening to separate instruments instead of a whole. On some slow tracks, the attack and decay just seems to be too fast. I would definitely not associate the HD800 with a natural sound.


----------



## Moonhead

HE6 doesn't go as low in bass and detail, but it may seem like that because of that thick planar bass tricking your mind. 
Just look at the FR.

HE6
8-65khz

HD800
6-51khz

The only cans I now of going a smitch lower than HD800 are 
Stax 009, Audeze, TH900, T1, T5p.


----------



## devilboy

joespride said:


> I am considering the Draug 2 for the 800's.......................if the Multibit sells or I end up returning it (whichever happens first) ................Based on all the positives heard here it sounds like a great match


Believe me, it most certainly is.


----------



## headwhacker

moonhead said:


> HE6 doesn't go as low in bass and detail, but it may seem like that because of that thick planar bass tricking your mind.
> Just look at the FR.
> 
> HE6
> ...


 
  
 That spec don't mean anything look at the measured FR. It will tell you which one has a better low end extention.


----------



## ZekeAdebayo

I appreciate everyone who took the time to comment. You all are the best! I don't seem to be bothered by any treble peak like Henkie on my He-560s. Maybe I'm just not overly sensitive to that frequency, I do have a soft spot for bright headphones as well, love the added energy they give the music up top. I asked the question because I am seriously considering getting an HD800. The person I bought my 560 from appeared to value what his HD800 did for him a bit more hence why he sold me the 560s which are wonderful cans in their own right. I'm just at the stage where summit fi is a consideration.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

zekeadebayo said:


> I appreciate everyone who took the time to comment. You all are the best! I don't seem to be bothered by any treble peak like Henkie on my He-560s. Maybe I'm just not overly sensitive to that frequency, I do have a soft spot for bright headphones as well, love the added energy they give the music up top. I asked the question because I am seriously considering getting an HD800. The person I bought my 560 from appeared to value what his HD800 did for him a bit more hence why he sold me the 560s which are wonderful cans in their own right. I'm just at the stage where summit fi is a consideration.




TBH, the treble on my 560 never bothered me either, they are great headphones. The 800, to me, just took most of the things I liked about the 560 to a slightly higher level. A big but though, the un-modded (Anax), non-Draug 2 HD800was more fatiguing to listen too. That's why I am looking at the LCD-3, X or Hifiman Edition X as a "partner/complimentary" can.


----------



## AlanU

henkie196 said:


> Both are perhaps neutral-ish, but in different ways.
> 
> Sometimes the HD800 just seems to tear the music apart for me, leaving me listening to separate instruments instead of a whole. On some slow tracks, the attack and decay just seems to be too fast. I would definitely not associate the HD800 with a natural sound.


 
 In my two channel I have had similar discussions regarding speakers. The chief designer of Totem Acoustics, Vince Bruzzese describes the Totem Wind as a "Bentley" and the Totem Earth as a "lamborghini" .  I own the "Lamborhini" and with my tubes and cabling they excel virtually in every category of music. However there is better speakers out there with better performance in jazz/vocals.
  
 I can make that same exact analogy with the HD650 and HD800. The HD800 is a very fast dynamic headphone. I would call this a very exciting headphone that can do very well in universal listening but it's not the "best" for every genre. Like anything in audio we cannot kid ourselves thinking the Hd800 can perform better than some other flagship headphones out there. I find it extremely difficult to hear lush rich music from the HD800 unless the synergy of the combo is setup this way in that manner. I can get very good note decay with the HD800 when tubes are thrown into the mix. I struggle to get that sort of natural note decay with solid state. This is why I believe in the ideal world it is ideal to have both solid state dac and tube dac's for different genre's of music.  Tubes provide a natural note decay that most $2500++++  DAC's cannot compete with IMO.  Solid state DAC's can provide hard fast bass and slam with excitement due to the electronics accentuating definition and high's and lows. 
  
 The HD650 is such a slow mellow headphone that can have the same sound characteristics with tubes and solid state equipment. Slow and "syrupy" with a heavier dark sound. This is an "inexpensive Bentley" in the analogy I spoke of earlier. However for some music genre's the HD650 is very very good. Heavier sounding headphones doesn't necessarily mean more organic sounding either. 
  
 All the equalizer's can  anttenuate frequencies or "force" to boost frequencies. I am doubtful they can change the note decay. This is where vacuum tubes have a different sound. I feel the equalizer can compensate frequency response but still doesn't have much weight in how engaging the music can be reproduced. I think the DAC and Headphones "character" has more weight in musical engagement.  
  
 I'd be interested in purchasing  another headphone to change the sound.  I can approach this "change" in sound by buying a different dac as well. When i read threads regarding "signature" sound in headphones I must always see the DAC  and amp combo  the person is driving the headphones with. A person driving an HD800 with a Multibit Schiit bitfrost would have a totally different sound compared to someone using tubes to tame the HD800. So far with my limited playtime in the Headphone world my jaw hit the ground with the Hd800 as I used tubes. Using solid state I am accepting the limitations of shorter note decay and less intimate vocals. 
  
 I know the HD800 is a racecar in performance. I can keep the headphones and simply change setup my rig with both solid state DAC (built in my Virtuoso) and go with tube dac or feed the burson Virtuoso DAC to a different tube headphone amp. Rolling tubes can be a huge change in sound signature.  Doing this "change" would be similar in simply buying a new set of headphones. However the headphones cannot be manipulated like rolling tubes. 
  
 yes....very subjective......most folks here take the approach of buying headphones and do not understand the world of rolling tubes. Slower propagation delay creating more natural note decay.


----------



## Youth

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^No actually just sold my 560s, which was hard to do, I really loved those cans. They were just too close to the sq of the 800s. So now looking for a foil to the 800. Probably an LCD-3, X or Hifiman Edition X.


  

 Yep, currently considering HD800 or HE-X... or both 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Need to wait for impressions for the HE-X though. I'm a little worried that the HE-X won't benefit that much from my gear compared to HD800.
 I will however wait untill the end of January before I buy. A Sennheiser employee said that _"...January is gonna be insane..."_ 
  
  


wildcatsare1 said:


> TBH, the treble on my 560 never bothered me either, they are great headphones. The 800, to me, just took most of the things I liked about the 560 to a slightly higher level. A big but though, the un-modded (Anax), non-Draug 2 HD800was more fatiguing to listen too. That's why I am looking at the LCD-3, X or Hifiman Edition X as a "partner/complimentary" can.


 
  
 Is the treble still too hot with the Anax mod and Draug 2? Have you ever tried to EQ it to add a bit bass and smooth out the treble?
  
 And how would you rate the modded HD800 on fatigue level compared to some other known headphones?
  
  


alanu said:


> In my two channel I have had similar discussions regarding speakers. The chief designer of Totem Acoustics, Vince Bruzzese describes the Totem Wind as a "Bentley" and the Totem Earth as a "lamborghini" .  I own the "Lamborhini" and with my tubes and cabling they excel virtually in every category of music. However there is better speakers out there with better performance in jazz/vocals.
> 
> I can make that same exact analogy with the HD650 and HD800. The HD800 is a very fast dynamic headphone. I would call this a very exciting headphone that can do very well in universal listening but it's not the "best" for every genre. Like anything in audio we cannot kid ourselves thinking the Hd800 can perform better than some other flagship headphones out there. I find it extremely difficult to hear lush rich music from the HD800 unless the synergy of the combo is setup this way in that manner. I can get very good note decay with the HD800 when tubes are thrown into the mix. I struggle to get that sort of natural note decay with solid state. This is why I believe in the ideal world it is ideal to have both solid state dac and tube dac's for different genre's of music.  Tubes provide a natural note decay that most $2500++++  DAC's cannot compete with IMO.  Solid state DAC's can provide hard fast bass and slam with excitement due to the electronics accentuating definition and high's and lows.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Have you tried R2R DACs like DAC 19 or some Theta DACs?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Youth, I really like the treble as is now, but poorly recorded albums, brick walled current rock, are fatiguing to listen to for extended periods. I am hoping to find a "complementary" headphone to the HD800. The 560's sq was too close, IMO.


----------



## Pokemonn

Youth, Wildcatsare1
 I recently found that well driven and heavily modded HD800s sound shockingly so good!
 No harshness at all. Smooth like butter and fully analoigh. with good SS amps HD800 sound "insanely" good!
 my modification of HD800 is cover ALL metal ear cups with clothes. i recommend it. they sound really good.
 I recommend DEQ2496 to boost bass and tame treble. DEQ2496 is much cheaper than highend headphones.


----------



## Moonhead

Headwhacker do your homework  

http://www.cnet.com/news/a-headphone-buyers-guide-to-specifications/


----------



## Moonhead

I second wildcatsare, HD800 are only bright when feed with poor recordings and sadly most is, but not movies. The only headphones I really like are HD800 & 007.


----------



## Youth

wildcatsare1 said:


> Youth, I really like the treble as is now, but poorly recorded albums, brick walled current rock, are fatiguing to listen to for extended periods. I am hoping to find a "complementary" headphone to the HD800. The 560's sq was too close, IMO.


 
  
 I see. It's a shame that there's so much poorly recorded music today.
  
  


pokemonn said:


> Youth, Wildcatsare1
> I recently found that well driven and heavily modded HD800s sound shockingly so good!
> No harshness at all. Smooth like butter and fully analoigh. with good SS amps HD800 sound "insanely" good!
> my modification of HD800 is cover ALL metal ear cups with clothes. i recommend it. they sound really good.
> I recommend DEQ2496 to boost bass and tame treble. DEQ2496 is much cheaper than highend headphones.


 
  
 That's good to hear. I'm gonna be using Audio-gd DAC 19 and Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon. I hope this will suit the HD800. If I get the HD800 I will buy Draug 2 balanced cable and probably also do the Anax mod. Might even EQ it. Isn't it possible to do that in foobar2000?
  
  


moonhead said:


> I second wildcatsare, HD800 are only bright when feed with poor recordings and sadly most is, but not movies. The only headphones I really like are HD800 & 007.


 
  
  Sadly so much music today is poorly recorded/mastered...


----------



## AlanU

youth said:


> Have you tried R2R DACs like DAC 19 or some Theta DACs?


 
 I'm always willing to try different things.
  
 My current tube dac has cost me aprox $3500.  I can imagine there are other DAC's out there that could surpass my current favourite dac.
  
 I've yet to hear a dac in the $2000++ range to produce note decay with a long tail. 
  
 Many here have stated modification to the HD800 (which i've performed) to transform the HD800 to a tamer smoother headphone. I totally agree this mod is more beneficial than keeping the headphone in stock form. 
  
 Sorry for my long winded babbles but "smooth" sounding is no doubt a wonderful characteristic. However when it comes to musical engagement in music I still must comment that there is still a lack of note decay in alot of systems that are solid state.  I've yet to hear in majority of all SS Dac's I've auditioned to be "analog sounding". They still seem to lack the note decay in string instruments and deep layers in vocals. Complex Orchestra music can benefit from solid state due to its pin point hyper details but some still may prefer a holographic blend from a tube system. 
  
 The HD800 is such a capable, physically comfortable headphone. The sound stage is "big" and sound great for hyper detail solid state enthusiasts. It can be well tamed to be an extremely intimate engaging headphone produce long note decay as long as the source provides it. This is why I still comment that owning a solid state setup and a different tube setup can provide a wide variety of "sound" depending on the type of music you feel like listening too. 2 systems with 1 HD800 can cover huge ground. I know i can definitely NOT say the same for my HD650. My HD650 is limiting if I want to listen to fast electronica.
  
 On the same topic of headphone cables for the HD800. I do think it'd be neat to test a Draug 2.  I've been running my Burson Virtuoso with a Furutech Alpha3 power cord and Blue circle power conditioner. This is where my 2 channel habits have been a donor to my headphone rig. I'm tend to concentrate on every aspect of a system. Having invested aprox $1000 in just power conditioning/cabling in my headphone rig seems well spent. I do find the flow of music much better as it reduces any congestion in the music.


----------



## SearchOfSub

A different headphone with longer decay on notes compared to hd800 on same amp will also produce longer decay notes on a tube amp compared to hd800.


----------



## AlanU

searchofsub said:


> A different headphone with longer decay on notes compared to hd800 on same amp will also produce longer decay notes on a tube amp compared to hd800.


 
 Please direct me to this headphone  If there is such a beast it will probably be limited to slower type of music and would struggle terribly with fast paced electronica music and adequate for pop music. If you look at the 2 channel world  $$ Harbeth speakers have sweet mids that are incredible emotional speakers. I think the HD800 is definitely a fast dynamic headphone not ideal for intimate jazz female vocals unless the source (DAC) can produce a very analog "sound". This is where doing A/B comparison can change really make it apparent what is engaging and what is "MORE" engaging.  
  
 In the headphone world I do find many hardcore enthusiasts have many different sets of headphones when they listen to different genre's. 
  
 In the case of a headphones having longer note decay is possible I suppose. Or is it smoother more of a description your talking about??
  
 I just find the source/amp to create more controlled decay. After testing solid state dacs I use a piano track to "test" for decay. So far my tube dac has made a "longer tail" massively different to solid state. 
  
 I will visit my local headphone shop and test more headphones


----------



## joespride

searchofsub said:


> Anyway, off I go to different threads.


 
 Or not
  
 "A different headphone with longer decay on notes compared to hd800 on same amp will also produce longer decay notes on a tube amp compared to hd800."
  
 Whats your point ?  Its quite obvious that any transducer performing a certain way will continue to do so,  Physics and all


----------



## SearchOfSub

alanu said:


> Please direct me to this headphone  If there is such a beast it will probably be limited to slower type of music and would struggle terribly with fast paced electronica music and adequate for pop music. If you look at the 2 channel world  $$ Harbeth speakers have sweet mids that are incredible emotional speakers. I think the HD800 is definitely a fast dynamic headphone not ideal for intimate jazz female vocals unless the source (DAC) can produce a very analog "sound". This is where doing A/B comparison can change really make it apparent what is engaging and what is "MORE" engaging.
> 
> In the headphone world I do find many hardcore enthusiasts have many different sets of headphones when they listen to different genre's.
> 
> ...





Ok since you know speakers. Do you find it that headphones always have more distortion rate than speakers. I am just wondering because all headphones seems like it has distortion of some sort. I've never noticed these kind of distortions with any speaker setup. Maybe it's closer to source or maybe because headphone gear is flat out cheap components compare to speaker components.. I spent thousands more on speaker setup just to be fair, but I've used it for HT + music. I can't justify spending same amount on headphone setup.


----------



## AlanU

searchofsub said:


> Ok since you know speakers. Do you find it that headphones always have more distortion rate than speakers. I am just wondering because all headphones seems like it has distortion of some sort. I've never noticed these kind of distortions with any speaker setup. Maybe it's closer to source or maybe because headphone gear is flat out cheap components compare to speaker components.. I spent thousands more on speaker setup just to be fair, but I've used it for HT + music. I can't justify spending same amount on headphone setup.


 
  I listen to my headphones at a reasonably low level to be honest. I do not seek serious bass because I prefer to feel it physically via HT or 2 channel rather  than hearing bass extension in headphones...sounds silly but that's just me 
  
 In the rare occasion I listen to music loud on HP I have not experienced any distortion you speak of. Possibly because I have the current to control the driver in the HP?? In most cases I've been using Tidal streaming services and Google Play Music,  so my source is reasonably clean 
  
 As far as audio is concerned it appears sky is the limit. The Headphone world I think is starting to venture towards the silly hifi world $$$ game. It seems that "if they build it, they will come (at the cost of an arm and leg)"  The latest flagships are starting to ramp up prices by a large margin. This is where the HD800 seems to be one of the best value for a beast of a headphone.
  
 I understand the difficulty in justifying on spending alot of $$ for a headphone rig. Some individuals use HP for specific reasons or the home front doesn't have space. I'm also not happily spending money on my headphone rig. My problem is that I'm always seeking audio nirvana. However I can comfortably holding back on my headphone rig due to "audio" priorities. I have a 9.1 HT setup at home as well as a dedicated 2 channel. I find myself dusting off my HP rig these days lately. 
  
 The Hd800 with Anaxilus mod for me has been a step in the right direction....


----------



## M-13

New HD800S!


----------



## BirdManOfCT

m-13 said:


> New HD800S!


 

 Yes! If you missed it on the main page:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/785577/sennheiser-hd800s-unveiled


----------



## rayfalkner

So, can I send mine to Senn to just have that '_new_' black paint job? I'm doing good with _vanilla_ and the hated 6khz spike, no need to refine those;
 and if one day I want those to be improved, certainly I don't want to be charged with multigrands for it while a $10 - $15 mod could also do that and completely reversible. (minus the black paint)


----------



## Thenewguy007

birdmanofct said:


> Yes! If you missed it on the main page:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/785577/sennheiser-hd800s-unveiled


 
  
 Sweet!
 I hope the price is in line with the HD800.


----------



## kapanak

thenewguy007 said:


> Sweet!
> I hope the price is in line with the HD800.




MSRP + Cable Price + Acoustic Absorber magic material = $2000 HD800S MSRP. 

That would be a nice spit in the face of Hifiman and Audeze uber pricing.


----------



## Sorrodje

.


----------



## Sorrodje

.


----------



## Sorrodje

Yup . I hope a 1500€ Price tag in EU. I'd be probably an early adopter then .


----------



## SearchOfSub

Will they get the timing, extention and decay right this time?


----------



## Youth

alanu said:


> I'm always willing to try different things.
> 
> My current tube dac has cost me aprox $3500.  I can imagine there are other DAC's out there that could surpass my current favourite dac.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You oughta try R2R DACs if you haven't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I love my HD650 and I actually think it does really well for most music. Like you I still want something a bit different to compliment it. 
  
 Yep, I'm buying Draug 2 cable for my HD650 and also my next flagship. Probably either HE-X, HD800 with Anax mod or HD800S.


----------



## drez

searchofsub said:


> Will they get the timing, extention and decay right this time?


 
  
 Read the HD 800 S thread.  HD 800 have intentionally short decay and large space between notes.  This is just accurate.  Longer decay is not "getting it right" and in fact is quite the opposite in terms of technical performance.  Similarly a smoother more flowing presentation due to longer decay is ls not "getting it right" and is a technically inferior performance.  Those awkward spaces between notes are a sign that the transducer is doing it's job properly and decaying quickly.
  
 TLDR: I doubt HD800S will "get it right" by your criteria, as to my mind and in terms of technical performance, they would need to get it wrong to "get it right"


----------



## SearchOfSub

drez said:


> Read the HD 800 S thread.  HD 800 have intentionally short decay and large space between notes.  This is just accurate.  Longer decay is not "getting it right" and in fact is quite the opposite in terms of technical performance.  Similarly a smoother more flowing presentation due to longer decay is ls not "getting it right" and is a technically inferior performance.  Those awkward spaces between notes are a sign that the transducer is doing it's job properly and decaying quickly.
> 
> TLDR: I doubt HD800S will "get it right" by your criteria, as to my mind and in terms of technical performance, they would need to get it wrong to "get it right"





I can understand this. In real live performance (without mics or amps of any kind) the music will sound alot less euphoric. Say for example, if I sang in my room and had a few others play real piano, real drums along with me, it prabably won't sound as euphoric as the ones we hear from made albums that have been processed.
But, then are the HD800's damp enough to not have any distortion of any sort? to make it all work, you would really need a good dac that is able to sound very very analog along with an amp that is severely distortion free without having any color of its own. Then I ask hd800 owners, why take tube route?


----------



## joespride

searchofsub said:


> Ok since you know speakers. Do you find it that headphones always have more distortion rate than speakers. I am just wondering because all headphones seems like it has distortion of some sort. I've never noticed these kind of distortions with any speaker setup. Maybe it's closer to source or maybe because headphone gear is flat out cheap components compare to speaker components.. I spent thousands more on speaker setup just to be fair, but I've used it for HT + music. I can't justify spending same amount on headphone setup.


 
 Do you listen to Headphones or just make this stuff up as you go ?  All drivers, Speakers and Headphones have the ability to distort especially when driven improperly,  There is no such thing as the PERFECT DRIVER.  The Reason you can not hear things on speakers that you report you do on headphones is simple to understand
  
 Headphones are much more intimate and will have detail shine through that a speaker simply can not,  Your room acoustics play a huge roll in affecting what you hear with speakers,  there is no such hinderance with heaadphones


----------



## ruthieandjohn

rayfalkner said:


> So, can I send mine to Senn to just have that '_new_' black paint job? I'm doing good with _vanilla_ and the hated 6khz spike, no need to refine those;
> and if one day I want those to be improved, certainly I don't want to be charged with multigrands for it while a $10 - $15 mod could also do that and completely reversible. (minus the black paint)



Send it to Colorware. At Colorware.com, you can select the HD800 and choose colors for five separate components (all parts but the grill) and it will show you what the headphone will look like. Here it is with everything black, but the palettes show you the other colors available.


----------



## rayfalkner

I don't think Colorware accept such _send in_ method anymore. At least I don't see any option that specifically reads to do that. I could've been missing it though so do correct me if it is.


----------



## drez

searchofsub said:


> I can understand this. In real live performance (without mics or amps of any kind) the music will sound alot less euphoric. Say for example, if I sang in my room and had a few others play real piano, real drums along with me, it prabably won't sound as euphoric as the ones we hear from made albums that have been processed.
> But, then are the HD800's damp enough to not have any distortion of any sort? to make it all work, you would really need a good dac that is able to sound very very analog along with an amp that is severely distortion free without having any color of its own. Then I ask hd800 owners, why take tube route?


 
  
 HD 800 distortion is very low, extremely low among dynamic drivers (stax having even lower distortion.)  One of key strengths of HD 800 though is how well they have removed resonances apart from the standout 6k resonance which causes the sharpness in the treble people complain about.  I think even stax do not decay faster than HD 800.  The fast decay, bright frequency balance and low distortion make a very revealing headphone - it can easily show flaws in equipment or recordings.  This fast decay is good technical performance though.  
  
 This also results in a very lean sound relative to other headphones.  At first I hated HD 800 because of the lean sound.  Unless you like this kind of sound, or have very good equipment and recordings, this will probably not sound too good.  There are many HD 800 on for sale forum...  HD 800 also have some sub bass rolloff - for acoustic music this is not a big deal mostly, but for bass lovers EQ would be needed.  I think Sennheiser also claim HD 800S has better frequency extension...
  
 However, many people come back to the HD 800 once they have gear that is very well sorted and find out that HD 800 can do some things that few other headphones can.  Before HD 800 I had HifiMan HE 6 a very good headphone, good mix of detail and musicality and almost perfect frequency balance IMO.  But HE6 could not render really low level very delicate musical passages as well as HD 800.
  
*BUT* when I bought HD 800 for first weak I had ear pain.  I think a lot of people would stop there and sell the headphone but I instead used Anaxilus mod.  Later as I improved my gear I could minimise the modifications as there was no longer treble resonances, grit, smear or glare coming from the components.
  
*For tubes* I think HD 800 with very low distortion bright DAC and amplifier can be too much of a good thing, even with modifications.  HD 800S may be a different story.  Some people use warmer/fuller NOS or R2R DAC with neutral solid state amplifier to add very slight smoothness and address treble issues and leanness.  Some use warm or smooth amplifier to do the same thing.  Or a warmer headphone.
  
 I think at least one component has to be slightly forgiving or smooth, be it source, DAC, amplifier or headphones otherwise there is just too much of a good thing.
  
 TLDR: HD 800 have some excellent technicalities few other headphone can match or beat especially at the price point, so people put up with or try to work around "issues" like leanness, brightness by sympathetic equipment selection.  IMO this doesn't need very very warm and coloured gear, just refined gear with very slight smoothness worked in.


----------



## Taowolf51

I have my doubts that the HD800s will be at a similar price to the HD800, considering the fact that it also comes with a balanced cable (which goes for $300 alone). I would guess it would be at least a few hundred dollars more.
  
 Of course, it would be interesting if it was almost the same price.


----------



## mikoss

I hope it isn't priced crazy. Why do we expect cables to be priced at $300? I mean I bought LCD-3's, so I guess the joke is on me, but I think it's crazy we expect to pay $300 for maybe $75 worth of materials which require very little research and development. Headphones, I expect to pay more overhead... cables not so much.


----------



## Taowolf51

mikoss said:


> I hope it isn't priced crazy. Why do we expect cables to be priced at $300? I mean I bought LCD-3's, so I guess the joke is on me, but I think it's crazy we expect to pay $300 for maybe $75 worth of materials which require very little research and development. Headphones, I expect to pay more overhead... cables not so much.


 
  
 I certainly don't expect cables to cost $300, that's just what Senn currently charges for them.
  
 Well, actually $380 it seems.
  
 http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VBs2TtHKR8X/p_143CH800S/Sennheiser-CH-800-S.html


----------



## thinker

thinker said:


> the new Sennheiser HD-800 has reengineered driver and the HDVD-800 plays DSD files


 
 posted this long time ago 8.9.15,look what Sennheiser is presenting for you today
  
 -thinker


----------



## Thenewguy007

rayfalkner said:


> I don't think Colorware accept such _send in_ method anymore. At least I don't see any option that specifically reads to do that. I could've been missing it though so do correct me if it is.


 
  
 Really?
 I thought it was like $500 to get it painted.


----------



## Thenewguy007

taowolf51 said:


> I have my doubts that the HD800s will be at a similar price to the HD800, considering the fact that it also comes with a balanced cable (which goes for $300 alone). I would guess it would be at least a few hundred dollars more.
> 
> Of course, it would be interesting if it was almost the same price.


 
  
 Who needs both a balanced _and _single ended cable?
 Mostly people only need just one, besides Sennheiser cables are overpriced garbage. There is a reason why everyone is recommending 3rd party cables & not ones directly from Sennheiser.

 All this does is just unnecessarily drive up the price.


----------



## bfreedma

thenewguy007 said:


> taowolf51 said:
> 
> 
> > I have my doubts that the HD800s will be at a similar price to the HD800, considering the fact that it also comes with a balanced cable (which goes for $300 alone). I would guess it would be at least a few hundred dollars more.
> ...




I think driving up the price is the goal. If the S isn't close to $2500, I'll be very surprised.


----------



## kapanak

bfreedma said:


> I think driving up the price is the goal. If the S isn't close to $2500, I'll be very surprised.


 

 I'm willing to bet $2000 MSRP.
  
 More to the point, HD800 stock cables are great and not veiled like pure copper cables. They also have excellent build quality compared to any third party cables out there with the exception of Nordost.


----------



## bfreedma

kapanak said:


> bfreedma said:
> 
> 
> > I think driving up the price is the goal. If the S isn't close to $2500, I'll be very surprised.
> ...




I can't see $2k. That's basically the cost of the current HD800 plus the balanced cable. If Sennheiser was going to do that, they would discontinue the original 800. From a marketing, sales, and perception perspective, they need a gap in the cost between the two, even though it appears to be the same housing and driver with a couple of bucks worth of resonance reducing material. 

It will be interesting to see if the members who had major issues with the LCD4 pricing express the same concerns here given the apparent relative lack of change in the S.


----------



## kapanak

bfreedma said:


> I can't see $2k. That's basically the cost of the current HD800 plus the balanced cable. If Sennheiser was going to do that, they would discontinue the original 800. From a marketing, sales, and perception perspective, they need a gap in the cost between the two, even though it appears to be the same housing and driver with a couple of bucks worth of resonance reducing material.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if the members who had major issues with the LCD4 pricing express the same concerns here given the apparent relative lack of change in the S.


 

 They wouldn't express as much discontent if it was $2K. Sennheiser sells the HD800 to dealers at $1050-$1100. Imagine if they could sell it for $1400-$1500 to dealers (to maintain the same dealer premium cut) without having to do anything to their production line, except the colour and one extra step of adding an "acoustic absorber". Not only would they maintain the same volume sales of HD800 (nearly 40,000 uniquely serialized units sold to dealers so far), they would also make a higher profit margin.
  
 Not to mention, cables barely cost anything to make for Sennheiser. If you buy a singled ended and balanced HD800 cables from Sennheiser parts site, it would cost you nearly $600. It probably costs Sennheiser less than $50 per cable (They are pretty well made). Massive profit margins.


----------



## bfreedma

kapanak said:


> Quote:Originally Posted by bfreedma I can't see $2k. That's basically the cost of the current HD800 plus the balanced cable. If Sennheiser was going to do that, they would discontinue the original 800. From a marketing, sales, and perception perspective, they need a gap in the cost between the two, even though it appears to be the same housing and driver with a couple of bucks worth of resonance reducing material.It will be interesting to see if the members who had major issues with the LCD4 pricing express the same concerns here given the apparent relative lack of change in the S.They wouldn't express as much discontent if it was $2K. Sennheiser sells the HD800 to dealers at $1050-$1100. Imagine if they could sell it for $1400-$1500 to dealers (to maintain the same dealer premium cut) without having to do anything to their production line, except the colour and one extra step of adding an "acoustic absorber". Not only would they maintain the same volume sales of HD800 (nearly 40,000 uniquely serialized units sold to dealers so far), they would also make a higher profit margin.




Sure, that makes sense but wouldn't that mean discontinuing the HD800 when the 800S becomes available? The price differential you describe isn't enough to keep both in a traditional sales model. Who would buy the 800 with the 800S priced so closely?

It will be interesting to see what Sennheiser ends up doing.


----------



## kapanak

bfreedma said:


> Sure, that makes sense but wouldn't that mean discontinuing the HD800 when the 800S becomes available? The price differential you describe isn't enough to keep both in a traditional sales model. Who would buy the 800 with the 800S priced so closely?
> 
> It will be interesting to see what Sennheiser ends up doing.


 
 They have a history for it. HD600 and HD650 were also introduced within similar time frame of each other as the HD800 and HD800S were. Both are still in production, despite far more similarities than differences in production. Both at the same MSRP price actually. The newest production models are almost identical in sound signature, with the 650 slightly smoother (same term used for HD800S), and the differences are really more acoustic absorbing materials and foams.


----------



## jude

bfreedma said:


> Sure, that makes sense but wouldn't that mean discontinuing the HD800 when the 800S becomes available? The price differential you describe isn't enough to keep both in a traditional sales model. Who would buy the 800 with the 800S priced so closely?
> 
> It will be interesting to see what Sennheiser ends up doing.


 
  
 The HD 800 is a classic by now. And what some (myself included) might consider an improvement with the HD 800S, others won't. I was talking to a young guy at the Tokyo Headphone Festival yesterday who preferred the original.
  
 When the HD 650 was released, I preferred it (and still do) to the HD 600, but anyone who's been around long enough knows that many prefer the 600 to the 650, too.
  
 Axel told me the HD800S will be a line extension, co-existing with the HD800.


----------



## bfreedma

jude said:


> bfreedma said:
> 
> 
> > Sure, that makes sense but wouldn't that mean discontinuing the HD800 when the 800S becomes available? The price differential you describe isn't enough to keep both in a traditional sales model. Who would buy the 800 with the 800S priced so closely?
> ...




The coexistence of the models is driving my speculation that the price gap will be more than some think. I'm interested to see how Sennheiser handles it from a business perspective - guess we'll know soon enough.

If the S addresses the elements of the HD800 that have kept me from purchasing it (too much treble, too light on the bass) I'll likely pick one up. The early reports certainly make that seem like a real possibility.


----------



## Thenewguy007

bfreedma said:


> It will be interesting to see if the members who had major issues with the LCD4 pricing express the same concerns here given the apparent relative lack of change in the S.


 

 Yeah, I mean this sound like the base HD800 painted in black with the $5 anax mod applied . Plus their own cheap cables thrown in.
  
 They'd be fools to over charge, especially since this headphone was on the market for like what? 8 years?
 For over $2,000, people can go looking into the HE-1000.


----------



## mikoss

thenewguy007 said:


> They'd be fools to over charge, especially since this headphone was on the market for like what? 8 years?
> For over $2,000, people can go looking into the HE-1000.



... And come back to the HD-800 and realize how overpriced the competition is.


----------



## rayfalkner

thenewguy007 said:


> For over $2,000, people can go looking into the HE-1000.


 
  
 Those who do their homework before spending $$$ on anything will realize heftier price tag does not always equals in gain of performance / quality.
 And yes if this 800S turns out to be on similar level with the popular mod (albeit done officially by OEM this time), a ridiculous price increase is a jerk move.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

bfreedma said:


> The coexistence of the models is driving my speculation that the price gap will be more than some think. I'm interested to see how Sennheiser handles it from a business perspective - guess we'll know soon enough.
> 
> If the S addresses the elements of the HD800 that have kept me from purchasing it (too much treble, too light on the bass) I'll likely pick one up. The early reports certainly make that seem like a real possibility.


 
 I see it differently, as a line extension the 800S is adding to the HD800's product group's market share by expanding the potential buyers. Going after the group that likes the 800, but just wouldn't pull the trigger because of treble or bass. Much like the HD650/600 added purchasers who found the 650 a little too dark. I am looking for parity with a small premium, if at all, for the addition of the balanced cables.


----------



## bfreedma

wildcatsare1 said:


> bfreedma said:
> 
> 
> > The coexistence of the models is driving my speculation that the price gap will be more than some think. I'm interested to see how Sennheiser handles it from a business perspective - guess we'll know soon enough.
> ...




Since Sennheiser has been charging $380 (I believe) for the balanced cable, if they don't add somewhere near that amount to the S, there are going to be some very unhappy people who already bought it as an add on to the HD800. It seems unlikely they are going to "throw it in".


----------



## high-fidelity

Hello guys,
  
 How is the performance with Sony Pha-3? Did anybody use it?
  
 Thanks


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Listening with the Sennheiser HD800, I compared the Sony PHA-1 (didn't and don't have the PHA-3) to the CEnrance HiFi M8 and the Sennheiser HDVD 800,* here.  *  The PHA-3, as shown in the table, is of greater power than the PHA-1, but someone in an earlier review deemed it not suited for the HD800 (I thought that the PHA-1 was just fine with it, though it did score lower than the other two amps).


----------



## high-fidelity

ruthieandjohn said:


> Listening with the Sennheiser HD800, I compared the Sony PHA-1 (didn't and don't have the PHA-3) to the CEnrance HiFi M8 and the Sennheiser HDVD 800,* here.  *  The PHA-3, as shown in the table, is of greater power than the PHA-1, but someone in an earlier review deemed it not suited for the HD800 (I thought that the PHA-1 was just fine with it, though it did score lower than the other two amps).


 
  
  
 Thanks for the link.
  
 I guess Pha-3 is not ''A'' class amplifier.
  
 HD800 owners suggest me A class amps.
  
  
 I think I'm gonna use it with Chord Hugo (if I find) if I decide to buy HD800.


----------



## Buddhahacker

A general rule of thumb is if the amp doesn't get hot it probably isn't a Class A amp.  I use my Valhalla to heat my office in the winter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Taowolf51

buddhahacker said:


> A general rule of thumb is if the amp doesn't get hot it probably isn't a Class A amp.  I use my Valhalla to heat my office in the winter
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 My Valhalla is just as good at making me uncomfortably warm as it is at driving my headphones.


----------



## HiAudio

Percussions seem to sound harsh when I play Thrillers and Beat It by Michael Jackson. But I am not sure if it's actually precise or really a little harsh or is little over my preferred level. Meanwhile I feel it's crystal clear.The recording is top notch in pop songs. I did not have the same feel when I listen to classical music but there aren't that much percussion as in them either. As for instruments I also played Going Home by Kenny G and I feel it's about right. On some other instruments I also feel they are fine.
  
 Windows 8.1 foobar200 play FLAC ->USB -.DAC-19 -> HDVA 600 ->balanced cable ->HD 800.


----------



## Zoom25

Anyone using an AM/FM tuner as a source with the HD 800 or in their setup?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

hiaudio said:


> Percussions seem to sound harsh when I play Thrillers and Beat It by Michael Jackson. But I am not sure if it's actually precise or really a little harsh or is little over my preferred level. Meanwhile I feel it's crystal clear.The recording is top notch in pop songs. I did not have the same feel when I listen to classical music but there aren't that much percussion as in them either. As for instruments I also played Going Home by Kenny G and I feel it's about right. On some other instruments I also feel they are fine.
> 
> Windows 8.1 foobar200 play FLAC ->USB -.DAC-19 -> HDVA 600 ->balanced cable ->HD 800.




I just listened to Thriller yesterday, no issues with the cymbals getting "sharp" or piercing. Tidal>Monarchy M22B>Tarus Mk.2>Draug 2>HD800 (Anax), so two R2R DACes, two pretty good amps, what cable are you using and do you have the Anax Mod?


----------



## HiAudio

How do you deal with sweat? This is embarrassing and I often sweat on my head. I either stop using the HD 800 or interrupt listening and wipe my sweat off. Inevitably the headphone has absorbed some sweat for sure. How to clean it or keep it clean?


----------



## HiAudio

wildcatsare1 said:


> I just listened to Thriller yesterday, no issues with the cymbals getting "sharp" or piercing. Tidal>Monarchy M22B>Tarus Mk.2>Draug 2>HD800 (Anax), so two R2R DACes, two pretty good amps, what cable are you using and do you have the Anax Mod?


 
  
 I used the ZY HIFI Cable Sennheiser HD800 and it's pretty thin, thinner than stock cable. and I do not know what Anax Mod is.
  
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MTB71SW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00


----------



## Sennophile

I couldn't agree more. I live in Egypt and sweat is a major nuisance with the HD800 despite the Alcantara lining.  I'm not a big proponent of air conditioning.
 Incidently, I find I sweat less when using the HDVD 800 than without ?!


----------



## Thenewguy007

hiaudio said:


> How do you deal with sweat? This is embarrassing and I often sweat on my head. I either stop using the HD 800 or interrupt listening and wipe my sweat off. Inevitably the headphone has absorbed some sweat for sure. How to clean it or keep it clean?


 
  
 There's this
 http://www.amazon.com/Cool-Pads-Earmuff-Covers-Display/dp/B003BNA81Y/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1444172956&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=Howard+Leight+Cool+Pads+earmuff+stickers
 Cool Pad Earmuff stickers
 Though they might be too small to cover the HD800 earpads.


----------



## Pokemonn

hiaudio said:


> and I do not know what Anax Mod is.


 
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod
  
 Anax mod is must do for most people except old age people who can't hear higher FREQ.


----------



## rayfalkner

Yay, the price plummets is starting! Awesome, 800*S*, even before your official launch you give the people a blessing to hunt for the _suddenly_ unwanted HD800 at bargain price. Now is the time, folks.


----------



## rawrster

There really isn't much change in prices. The prices in the fs now could have been obtained pretty easily before the new headphone was announced. The hd800 has been priced very competitively for a long time. 

I'll keep my hd800. This is my third one and this one isn't going anywhere.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I sure love my HD800 run by the HDVD800 amp. I can see why people buy three!


----------



## rawrster

ruthieandjohn said:


> I sure love my HD800 run by the HDVD800 amp. I can see why people buy three!


 
  
 surround sound


----------



## Devarika Woulf

devarika woulf said:


> It looks like the LCD-2's time in the sun has come to an end. I remember around November of 2011, when the LCD-3 had just come out, the LCD-2 was better than the HD-800 for many many people here, thus influencing my decision to purchase one. Now, with all this praise for the 800s, and my own minor issues with the LCD-2 beginning to get noticed, I'm almost certain I'm gonna sell them and move on to an 800 early next year.


 
  
 It's funny, I made this post over two years ago and nothing has changed. The HD800 is still king for many while Audeze's models of the time are being replaced by new versions which for the most part are more loved. I've contemplated selling my LCD-2.2 and getting an LCD-X but never did. The HD800's sound has always perplexed my mind; I've pictured it having too much treble, high in sibilance, and light in bass. Now I know that it's not true and is more dependent on your gear. I love the LCD-2's bass but find it a bit too much. I've wanted something more neutral for a while and desire my music more involving with a larger soundstage.
  


hermosabeachdud said:


> Hey guys, Just wanted to give a quick impressions of the new HD800 paired with the hdvd800 and balanced cables coming from a musician and not necessarily an audiophile. First off all I can say is WOW. These cans delivered exactly what I expected them to... as a musician I wanted something super accurate to bring me into the room so that I can get "involved" in the music, and they did that exceptionally. I don't know why everyone said bass is lacking with these because the bass gets STUIPID low with these and is VERY WELL BALANCED. as far as bad recordings... I found these cans completely fine to listen to bad recordings. It is what it is, obviously its not as enjoyable as listening to good recordings. So I'd say as a _musician_, I really enjoyed these because they bring me into the room with the band and inspire my creativity!


 
  
 This is exactly what gets me excited about buying an HD800. I'm a singer-songwriter myself (in my head anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and I would love to get things out of the way and just get straight into the music. I want to hear the room, the production, the instruments for how they really were. Hence, my questions:
  
 1. How does the HD800 do with classic & modern rock? I mostly listen to rock from the 60s through the 90s more than other genres. Is it good or would the LCD-X be a better choice (with its apparent exaggerated bass)?
  
 2. I have a Rega DAC here. Would it work well with a HDVA 600 or am I better off selling it and getting the HDVD 800?
  
 3. How much more sound do you get if you upgrade past a HDVD 800?
  
 Thanks for any help.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

devarika woulf said:


> It's funny, I made this post over two years ago and nothing has changed. The HD800 is still king for many while Audeze's models of the time are being replaced by new versions which for the most part are more loved. I've contemplated selling my LCD-2.2 and getting an LCD-X but never did. The HD800's sound has alwaysperplexed my mind; I've pictured it having too much treble, high in sibilance, and light in bass. Now I know that it's not true and is more dependent on your gear. I love the LCD-2's bass but find it a bit too much. I've wanted something more neutral for a while and desire my music more involving with a larger soundstage.
> 
> 
> This is exactly what gets me excited about buying an HD800. I'm a singer-songwriter myself (in my head anyway :wink_face: ) and I would love to get things out of the way and just get straight into the music. I want to hear the room, the production, the instruments for how they really were. Hence, my questions:
> ...



Received wisdom is that if the DAC costs more than the $400 that the Sennheiser HDVD800 (with DAC) costs over the HDVA600 (without DAC), the whole system will sound better, as it seems Sennheiser made a better amp than they did a DAC in the HDVD800. I certainly have no complaints about the DAC in mine, however, and I don't find my standalone DAC, the Schiit Bifrost Uber, which is about $450, to sound any better. Don't know your particular DAC.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ruthieandjohn said:


> Received wisdom is that if the DAC costs more than the $400 that the Sennheiser HDVD800 (with DAC) costs over the HDVA600 (without DAC), the whole system will sound better, as it seems Sennheiser made a better amp than they did a DAC in the HDVD800. I certainly have no complaints about the DAC in mine, however, and I don't find my standalone DAC, the Schiit Bifrost Uber, which is about $450, to sound any better. Don't know your particular DAC.




You need to send your Uber Bifrost in for the Multi-Bit upgrade, it is a significant improvement in sq.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

wildcatsare1 said:


> You need to send your Uber Bifrost in for the Multi-Bit upgrade, it is a significant improvement in sq.



Do I have to send it in? I thought that their architecture was such that I could upgrade with a plugin myself. How much is the upgrade? Thanks!


----------



## ZekeAdebayo

ruthieandjohn said:


> Do I have to send it in? I thought that their architecture was such that I could upgrade with a plugin myself. How much is the upgrade? Thanks!


 
 The Multibit Upgrade is $250 according to the Schiit website.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ruthieandjohn said:


> Do I have to send it in? I thought that their architecture was such that I could upgrade with a plugin myself. How much is the upgrade? Thanks!


 
 This one isn't  a User Mod, but their system is excellent. You order, wit a couple days, send it in, its done in two days and sent back. The process took about 10 days from order to return for me. It sounds brilliant, smooths out the Bifrost's rough edges, expands the soundstage and improves dynamics.


----------



## curbfeeler

I can't speak to the bass performance, but what I heard of Joey Silverstein's performance of Vivaldi's Four Seasons on Telarc yesterday was deliciously coherent and lifelike. I usually can't abide the rise in the upper strings evident from the HD800, but as modded and EQed at johnjen's the strings were lovely.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

ruthieandjohn said:


> Received wisdom is that if the DAC costs more than the $400 that the Sennheiser HDVD800 (with DAC) costs over the HDVA600 (without DAC), the whole system will sound better, as it seems Sennheiser made a better amp than they did a DAC in the HDVD800. I certainly have no complaints about the DAC in mine, however, and I don't find my standalone DAC, the Schiit Bifrost Uber, which is about $450, to sound any better. Don't know your particular DAC.


 
  
 The price of the HDVA 600 is currently $1200 so I assumed the HDVD 800 at $2100 was quite a bit better than it. My Rega cost $1000 new so it probably is better but I wonder if it and the HDVA would pair well together. Gets me excited thinking about it...I want to try the HD800.


----------



## joespride

Kevin,  You did not feel the Bifrost Multibit has a bit of a digital edge ??,, I found it fatiguing I think that was because it is no longer a discreet design (Like the gumby and yggy) and instead relies on filtering
  
 Joe


----------



## MickeyVee

I had the Rega DAC for a while and it's a nice piece.  I'd keep it and do the HDVA600.  Should be a great combo.
  
 Quote:


devarika woulf said:


> The price of the HDVA 600 is currently $1200 so I assumed the HDVD 800 at $2100 was quite a bit better than it. My Rega cost $1000 new so it probably is better but I wonder if it and the HDVA would pair well together. Gets me excited thinking about it...I want to try the HD800.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

joespride said:


> Kevin,  You did not feel the Bifrost Multibit has a bit of a digital edge ??,, I found it fatiguing I think that was because it is no longer a discreet design (Like the gumby and yggy) and instead relies on filtering
> 
> Joe




Maybe a little, I will give it a few more hours of burn in, I am sure the Gimby and Yggy are incredible. So far it's dynamics are a little muted and maybe a bit of an edge. I'll give it a little more time and do some more serious listening this weekend.


----------



## joespride

Havana still rules my roost


----------



## Thenewguy007

rayfalkner said:


> Yay, the price plummets is starting! Awesome, 800*S*, even before your official launch you give the people a blessing to hunt for the _suddenly_ unwanted HD800 at bargain price. Now is the time, folks.


 

 Going to suck for a lot of people if the 800S turns out to be worse than the regular version.


----------



## joespride

Yea I dont understand the trend with Headphones of making conclusions on the product B-4 it is actually available.  Any comments on the SQ so far are suspect at best, Its not like people will bash a product of a supporter, Then hearing is subjective what one person finds pleasing the next may Hate.
  
 I will watch from the sidelines and get some actual users impressions and make a judgement from that, From the current description I cant see what all the hubub is about, other than a 2nd cable all you are supposedly getting is a color choice and a version of anax mod
  
  
 Now I want to know from those that have the Draug 2 Cable, I know it is a subtle change in SQ but does it tame any of the brightness ?  is it really worth the 300.00............I am wavering a bit between buy or not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I sure wish there was a place to save a few $$ that would make the decision much easier,  I am a cheap person at heart


----------



## BirdManOfCT

thenewguy007 said:


> Going to suck for a lot of people if the 800S turns out to be worse than the regular version.


 

 True. Brings to mind previous "better" versions that weren't.


----------



## kapanak

joespride said:


> Yea I dont understand the trend with Headphones of making conclusions on the product B-4 it is actually available.  Any comments on the SQ so far are suspect at best, Its not like people will bash a product of a supporter, Then hearing is subjective what one person finds pleasing the next may Hate.
> 
> I will watch from the sidelines and get some actual users impressions and make a judgement from that, From the current description I cant see what all the hubub is about, other than a 2nd cable all you are supposedly getting is a color choice and a version of anax mod
> 
> ...




Please do not buy any cable of any price expecting a change in the sound quality or sound signature. It is so impossibly subtle that you'll most likely be disappointed than not.


----------



## moshen

joespride said:


> Yea I dont understand the trend with Headphones of making conclusions on the product B-4 it is actually available.  Any comments on the SQ so far are suspect at best, Its not like people will bash a product of a supporter, Then hearing is subjective what one person finds pleasing the next may Hate.
> 
> I will watch from the sidelines and get some actual users impressions and make a judgement from that, From the current description I cant see what all the hubub is about, other than a 2nd cable all you are supposedly getting is a color choice and a version of anax mod
> 
> ...


 

 In my opinion, don't waste your time with trying to change the sound with cables.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

moshen said:


> In my opinion, don't waste your time with trying to change the sound with cables.




Now Moshen have you ever heard the Draug 2 on a pair of HD800es? It's not so much changing the sound as it is maximizing the sound of the 800, getting 2% more sq.


----------



## kapanak

wildcatsare1 said:


> Now Moshen have you ever heard the Draug 2 on a pair of HD800es? It's not so much changing the sound as it is maximizing the sound of the 800, getting 2% more sq.


 
  
 I own the Nordost HD800 cables and the Draug 2 and the stock of course. Cables do not change the sound to the extent people here seem to suggest to new HD800 owners. There is simply far too much hyperbole and exaggeration going on in this thread and elsewhere on Head-Fi regarding cables. And what defines that 2%? Maybe your 2% is somebody else's 10% or another's 0.01%. It doesn't justify the price or the sound change, the way good source music, good DAC, good amp and even mods or EQ do.


----------



## headwhacker

The only thing I want to change about the stock cable is how easy it is to twist and tangle.


----------



## joespride

kapanak said:


> Please do not buy any cable of any price expecting a change in the sound quality or sound signature. It is so impossibly subtle that you'll most likely be disappointed than not.


 
 I understand completely, I am new to hd800 but not new to audio...........I was always skeptical about the burn in argument and the cable argument on open air systems I could not hear any difference,  Headphones have helped in that department,  I totally understand that any changes with a cable would be subtle
  
 I am pretty confident that my Amp, Dac, and about 50% of my source are up to the task, and I have done the anax mod.  I tried EQ but frankly feel that causes things to sound recessed...........I am looking for that Last Little bit (hopefully) which may help me regain some of my source (i strictly listen Via JRMC Flac Files)
  
 So while I understand your aversion to cables, and basically agree they are way overpriced, and he benefits are blown out of proportion  I am pretty confident My system is maxed in all regards except cableing.  Cables is kind of my final frontier, and though expensive they are cheaper than Dac / Amp swapping for that last 2%
  
 KapanaK, You wouldnt want to sell that draug 2 would you


----------



## rayfalkner

Fortunately since this is Senn product we're talking about, it will be pretty easy to have the 800S demo'ed in nearly every reputable audio store nearby once it is released. No excuse really to not auditioning a megabuck product like this before committing a purchase.
  
 Well for me, even if the 800S turns out to be a significantly better 800, I won't be buying it right at launch day, I'm too cheap for that. I'll wait until the price of the secondhand 800S stabilized a bit which probably means a year or two post launch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Being cheap is the way of life, man, it's *THE *Zen!


----------



## johnjen

curbfeeler said:


> I can't speak to the bass performance, but what I heard of Joey Silverstein's performance of Vivaldi's Four Seasons on Telarc yesterday was deliciously coherent and lifelike. I usually can't abide the rise in the upper strings evident from the HD800, but as modded and EQed at johnjen's the strings were lovely.


I should have played some pipe organ or any of my other selections with Real-Bass™…
Like Jean Guilou's album of Pictures at an Exhibition on the Dorian label which I'm listening to even as I type this.

The pipe organ shakes my head and chest when he does that double foot pedal thang with the subtractive sub-harmonics.

And yeah the EQ from the sonarworks plugin REALLY helps with the lifelike coherency and also helps to 'fill in' the harmonic structure of every 'voice' (organic and instrument).

Maybe on your next visit I'll play Catacombs or The Hut of Baba Yaga just to give a taste of Real-Bass™ at Jen-Labs. :atsmile:

This Real-Bass™ thing is addicting, lemme tell ya!
And I can't wait to get my 800's 'properly' EQ'd.

Then we be having some Real-Bass™ fun now! :atsmile:

JJ


----------



## atsq17

kapanak said:


> Please do not buy any cable of any price expecting a change in the sound quality or sound signature. It is so impossibly subtle that you'll most likely be disappointed than not.







moshen said:


> In my opinion, don't waste your time with trying to change the sound with cables.




When you have a high end chain from source to headphone, the difference between stock cable and say a Norne or Toxic cable is clear even for non audiophiles. The thing that changes most clearly can be the tonal balance if the two cables compared use different conductor types and gauges. Technicalities like sound stage, details, imaging change too and vary from cable to cable. 

The difference usually isn't as much as changing headphone but it's clearly there for all to hear.

While it's good practice to get the other gear in place before cables, in the case of hd800, it can change how one feels completely about the headphone.

If not for my norne solv cable, i would have sold the hd800 a long time ago.


----------



## headwhacker

atsq17 said:


> When you have a high end chain from source to headphone, the difference between stock cable and say a Norne or Toxic cable is clear even for non audiophiles. The thing that changes most clearly can be the tonal balance if the two cables compared use different conductor types and gauges. Technicalities like sound stage, details, imaging change too and vary from cable to cable.
> 
> The difference usually isn't as much as changing headphone but it's clearly there for all to hear.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The testing you did I suppose is non-blind?


----------



## Dadracer

headwhacker said:


> atsq17 said:
> 
> 
> > When you have a high end chain from source to headphone, the difference between stock cable and say a Norne or Toxic cable is clear even for non audiophiles. The thing that changes most clearly can be the tonal balance if the two cables compared use different conductor types and gauges. Technicalities like sound stage, details, imaging change too and vary from cable to cable.
> ...


 
 Why would that make it less true for that person if it were blind?
 Its not like we are comparing a new life saving therapy versus the current life saving therapy in which case a double blind crossover trial would seem to provide the best resolution to whether the new therapy is better at saving lives than the previous therapy.
 Most of HiFi choices/upgrades are subjective are they not?
 So if one person believes they can "hear" a difference when changing cables does that make it any less true than if they don't? 
 If they change cables and that allows them to enjoy their music more then does it need to be clinically proven?
 Just asking............


----------



## vnmslsrbms

Cuz blind people have enhanced hearing.  Like Daredevil.  


dadracer said:


> Why would that make it less true for that person if it were blind?


----------



## headwhacker

dadracer said:


> Why would that make it less true for that person if it were blind?
> Its not like we are comparing a new life saving therapy versus the current life saving therapy in which case a double blind crossover trial would seem to provide the best resolution to whether the new therapy is better at saving lives than the previous therapy.
> Most of HiFi choices/upgrades are subjective are they not?
> So if one person believes they can "hear" a difference when changing cables does that make it any less true than if they don't?
> ...


 
 I am not arguing the validity of the test method used. I'm just asking whether he did a blind test or not. If you want to argue about it you already know the correct forum by now.


----------



## rayfalkner

Personally I just like it if people would be more critical about subjective matters. Placebo is bad for us customers, kind of keeping us from being wiser and/or smarter with our spending you know.
  
 IMO it's like telling people that coloring your hair silver will make you a brighter person while coloring it copper makes your personality warmer. Could it be true? I don't know; what I know is nowadays if you want to prove or convince your fact to the public, you better have a study to back it up, and do it with a properly performed study which means one of the requisites is bias have to be eliminated / confirmed as best as it can- thus the option of blind testing, preferably with some entrapment weaved in between;
 for example: The blind test of A - B cable actually includes the third C cable too, or the test is actually just performed using only cable A from the start, etc.


----------



## headwhacker

rayfalkner said:


> Personally I just like it if people would be more critical about subjective matters. Placebo is bad for us customers, kind of keeping us from being wiser and/or smarter with our spending you know.
> 
> IMO it's like telling people that coloring your hair silver will make you a brighter person while coloring it copper makes your personality warmer. Could it be true? I don't know; what I know is nowadays if you want to prove or convince your fact to the public, you better have a study to back it up, and do it with a properly performed study which means one of the requisites is bias have to be eliminated / confirmed as best as it can- thus the option of blind testing, preferably with some entrapment weaved in between;
> for example: The blind test of A - B cable actually includes the third C cable too, or the test is actually just performed using only cable A from the start, etc.


 
 While i agree with your points, I'd refrain from taking this subject further since this is an impressions thread. It will just blow up the thread unnecessarily which is a recurring theme outside of sound science forum nowadays.
  
 Thus, I only asked whether the impression/comparison was done blind or non-blind and leave it to the reader to choose  
 if they do a research on their own about the subject.


----------



## Dadracer

Not arguing, just asking.............I'll get my coat..............


----------



## joshk4

I've got the hd 800 with hdvd 800 and ch 800s.

I've tested both single ended and balanced, and to be honest I can't tell if there was an improvement or not. Because when I increased the volume on SE to match as best as I can, there is no clear cut improvement if any at all. 

This is of course my opinion.

Best if people could test it themselves before making the purchase


----------



## johnjen

My 2¢ on blind testing.

I don't listen to music blind.
Either in a live venue nor reproduced at home.

And music is what my focus is aimed at.
Not testing, not proving this or that.
I have no need to attempt the impossible, that being 'proving' something to someone else.
Only we can prove something to ourselves, its not something someone else can do for us.

Either my subjective experience is 'better', using the audible tests and criteria I have come to trust over the years,
or not. 
These tests have 'proven' themselves to me over the years in a variety of ways including other folks reaction etc to my music.

And yes I do trust my ears, they've been with me a long time now and we seem to get along quite well.
And I have been 'calibrated' by listening to some very fine music, which further enables me to trust what I hear all the more.

Maybe I'm weird, or some might think that I'm some how special or can "remember" longer than x seconds or any number of other 'shoot at the messenger' tactics.

But when all is said and done, it DOES, every time, come down to one's subjective evaluation.

Is it better, do I like it, can I live with it? 
Or Not?

The choice, as always is exclusively ours to make.

JJ


----------



## rayfalkner

Yeah, my apology if I contribute to the derailment too.
  
 So here's a little story to lighten the mood a bit:
 Three days ago while looking for a replacement USB cable (read: a good cable that complies fully to USB 2.0 standard with good build quality); the seller recommends me a $650 cable as his "_best value recommendation!_" product, "Will make your classical recording brings you right into the center of auditorium". Honestly, had half a mind to give him the middle finger...


----------



## headwhacker

johnjen said:


> My 2¢ on blind testing.
> 
> *I don't listen to music blind.*
> Either in a live venue nor reproduced at home.
> ...


 
  
 Well I'm confused, are you saying you use your eyes or other senses besides your ears to listen to your music? If music is really  where you aim your focus wouldn't you benefit more by shutting down all senses other than your ears to limit any distraction?
  
 In my experience, I get laser focus attention and appreciation of music with my HD800 on if I sit back in a recliner alone in a dim lit room and my eyes shut.


----------



## whirlwind

joespride said:


> Yea I dont understand the trend with Headphones of making conclusions on the product B-4 it is actually available.  Any comments on the SQ so far are suspect at best, Its not like people will bash a product of a supporter, Then hearing is subjective what one person finds pleasing the next may Hate.
> 
> I will watch from the sidelines and get some actual users impressions and make a judgement from that, From the current description I cant see what all the hubub is about, other than a 2nd cable all you are supposedly getting is a color choice and a version of anax mod
> 
> ...


 
 Keep an eye out in the B/S/T forums...they show up every once in awhile.


----------



## joespride

whirlwind said:


> Keep an eye out in the B/S/T forums...they show up every once in awhile.


 
 I check it daily,  Sadly Its an addiction


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I am considering the purchase of another balanced cable for my HD800s.  I already have one, custom made, but it is a little thick and inflexible.
  
 My choice would be between the Norne Draug 2 or the Sennheiser stock balanced cable.
  
 I assume both sound great... does the Norne sound better?
  
 Also, any idea as to which is thinner and more flexible?  Thanks!


----------



## Devarika Woulf

> I had the Rega DAC for a while and it's a nice piece.  I'd keep it and do the HDVA600.  Should be a great combo.


 
  
 Thanks. From what I've read the Rega pairs well with the HD800 and though it adds a little color, it really has great mids. It will do the job until I perhaps find something more neutral. I'm also reading that my Violectric V200 pairs well with the HD800 so perhaps I should grab the HD800 soon and sell the V200 later but I think the warmth of both the V200 and Rega will hold the HD800 back. One thing that scares me though is that I read the HDVA 600 only sounds good balanced and the Rega does not have a balanced option.
  
 Can anyone chime in on my other choices going up past the $1200 HDVA 600? I know the amp makes much more of a difference than the DAC so what benefits will I get if I put more money in? For example, I read the WA22 was one of the best pairings but it's a lot more money once you get into tube rolling. Then there's the Hugo, or the V281 which are too much money for me right now. Does the HDVA 600 have any notable faults? I've done reading but any more information would be great. Thanks.


----------



## joespride

ruthieandjohn said:


> I am considering the purchase of another balanced cable for my HD800s.  I already have one, custom made, but it is a little thick and inflexible.
> 
> My choice would be between the Norne Draug 2 or the Sennheiser stock balanced cable.
> 
> ...


----------



## joespride

devarika woulf said:


> Thanks. From what I've read the Rega pairs well with the HD800 and though it adds a little color, it really has great mids. It will do the job until I perhaps find something more neutral. I'm also reading that my Violectric V200 pairs well with the HD800 so perhaps I should grab the HD800 soon and sell the V200 later but I think the warmth of both the V200 and Rega will hold the HD800 back. One thing that scares me though is that I read the HDVA 600 only sounds good balanced and the Rega does not have a balanced option.
> 
> Can anyone chime in on my other choices going up past the $1200 HDVA 600? I know the amp makes much more of a difference than the DAC so what benefits will I get if I put more money in? For example, I read the WA22 was one of the best pairings but it's a lot more money once you get into tube rolling. Then there's the Hugo, or the V281 which are too much money for me right now. Does the HDVA 600 have any notable faults? I've done reading but any more information would be great. Thanks.


 
 If you are considering tubes I urge you to give this a try,  I am listening to 1 and believe me it sounds superb with the HD800.  It is not overly warm. I would easily put its SQ with the Woo
  
 http://ampsandsound.com/products/custom-amps/kenzie-headphone-amp/
  
 Tube rolling is a non issue also, as the tubes are still reasonable, you can get a pair of 1940's vintage military grade 1626 tubes for under 40.00, and the 12sl7gt runs pretty decent at 10.00 to 30.00...................I have a life time supply (7 sets) of what I found to sound the best for around 250.00


----------



## MattTCG

ruthieandjohn said:


> I am considering the purchase of another balanced cable for my HD800s.  I already have one, custom made, but it is a little thick and inflexible.
> 
> My choice would be between the Norne Draug 2 or the Sennheiser stock balanced cable.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Although the Norne is thick, it is significantly better than stock balanced IMO.


----------



## joespride

Has anyone compared cardas to norne, ?
  
 Impressions ?


----------



## rayfalkner

ruthieandjohn said:


> My choice would be between the Norne Draug 2 or the Sennheiser stock balanced cable.
> 
> Also, any idea as to which is thinner and more flexible?  Thanks!


 
  
 Norne's cable is thick and beefy. Usable as self defense weapon since you could inflict some nasty wounds if you whip someone who tries to steal your HD800 with it.
 Senn's balanced is of course thin and nice, but you know how the Y-split section is kind of prone to twisting all the time.
 Forza cable is a bit thinner than Norne, and the Noir series looks (subjectively) sexy in black sleeves.
 Cannot help with Cardas sorry, haven't met one that owns it around here.
 Or try contacting @teds headfood - headphonelounge, the guy could make nice custom cable tailored to what you need.
  
*) Norne (Draugr), Senn, and Forza (Noir) cable I have seen (and touch) those myself.


----------



## kapanak

atsq17 said:


> When you have a high end chain from source to headphone, the difference between stock cable and say a Norne or Toxic cable is clear even for non audiophiles. The thing that changes most clearly can be the tonal balance if the two cables compared use different conductor types and gauges. Technicalities like sound stage, details, imaging change too and vary from cable to cable.
> 
> The difference usually isn't as much as changing headphone but it's clearly there for all to hear.
> 
> ...




The reason people brought the blind or not blind argument is that you made a claim that cables differences are noticeable by everybody. You applied your subjective opinions, biased beliefs and entirely your own impression to not just audiophiles, but the general public.


----------



## Taowolf51

headwhacker said:


> In my experience, I get laser focus attention and appreciation of music with my HD800 on if I sit back in a recliner alone in a dim lit room and my eyes shut.


 
  
 Not going to get into the cable discussion, but I definitely agree with this. All critical listening should be done when sitting of lying down with closed eyes. My ability to focus on the music (and thus my ability to hear) goes up substantially when I close my eyes.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

taowolf51 said:


> Not going to get into the cable discussion, but I definitely agree with this. All critical listening should be done when sitting of lying down with closed eyes. My ability to focus on the music (and thus my ability to hear) goes up substantially when I close my eyes.


 
 I snore a lot when I listen critically in this manner... how about you??


----------



## joespride

ruthieandjohn said:


> I snore a lot when I listen critically in this manner... how about you??


 
 Had that happen a few times, Moreso with the HE500's I would guess due to there almost liquid presentation
  
 I do catch myself to tapping more often with the HD800, Then I get subconscious about it and & Have an inner debate about PRAT, IE... am I merely toe tapping in an attempt to convince myself the HD800 is better / has better PRAT


----------



## moshen

atsq17 said:


> When you have a high end chain from source to headphone, the difference between stock cable and say a Norne or Toxic cable is clear even for non audiophiles. The thing that changes most clearly can be the tonal balance if the two cables compared use different conductor types and gauges. Technicalities like sound stage, details, imaging change too and vary from cable to cable.
> 
> The difference usually isn't as much as changing headphone but it's clearly there for all to hear.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you lived near me, I'd put wager a new HD800S that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between any of your cables with blind testing. You definitely hear the difference sighted though, and that's because your mind is putting that bias on the sound in my opinion.


----------



## Taowolf51

ruthieandjohn said:


> I snore a lot when I listen critically in this manner... how about you??


 
  
 Haha, haven't gotten to that point yet. Plus, the HD800's make me dance too much.


----------



## joespride

taowolf51 said:


> Haha, haven't gotten to that point yet. Plus, the HD800's make me dance too much.


 
 You dance while laying back in recliner with your eyes shut?  You are alone right ?


----------



## joespride

Man oh Man, an album I never considered Audiophile is sounding so damn Good
  
 Phill Collins Face Value,  My wife and boys get a kick outta my Air Drums................Never this engrossed in this album using the HE500's
 The HD800 has a way of dragging you in for sure
  
 Is that what everyone calls PRAT,  The ability of the music / gear to get you moving


----------



## atsq17

headwhacker said:


> The testing you did I suppose is non-blind?




I do blind tests for stuff that is really too hard to tell like usb cables etc.

I don't do blind tests when the differences are big enough to hear every time to anyone. 

I normally test with friends and i never share my findings until everyone has tested. If there are conflicting opinions i will state it when posting on forums like these to help others. 

I try to only make statements when i am very sure (as sure as i can be that is) that my perception is not placebo and that I've verified with other testers independently. 

I also find that i am often disputed by people who haven't even tried and tgat are theorizing that i am wrong. 

It's up to the public to decide if they want to listen to a guy who had bothered to experiment and share his findings, or to people without the same experience who are putting forth opposing opinions based on their personal theories. 

I've personally received a lot of help and advice on these forums which I'm grateful for. Just trying to give back.

Edit: Forgot to mention that i setup blind tests (for everything i test) for my partner who used to study and play music. She isn't an audiophile though and couldn't visibly tell a hd800 from a hd650. She does have a much sharper ear than me though. Much to her annoyance i get her to test every single piece if equipment i need a decision on. All the tests she does are blind tests. 

With the whole stock cable vs other debate we weren't discussing whether there was a difference. That was dead obvious. We were discussing what the differences were and which was better.


----------



## Nicklikesmusic

Recently I thought I would get back into headphone listening after a long break and picked up a HD800 with a Schitt Valhalla 2 tube amp as the combination seemed to be well regarded. My sources are Rega Apollo CD Player, Sony Z Series and X Series Walkmans. I also have Hd598's that I enjoyed for a long time when I lived in a small box in Singapore and was unable to have a full loudspeaker setup. I also have an Audioquest King Cobra interconnect (from years ago) , Chord Silver Conductor RCA's and standard $10 RCA cables. In my opinion the combo is so revealing that yes cable changes can clearly be heard. 
  
 BTW  I am 42 and struggle to hear past 18Kz!


----------



## ruthieandjohn

nicklikesmusic said:


> Recently I thought I would get back into headphone listening after a long break and picked up a HD800 with a Schitt Valhalla 2 tube amp as the combination seemed to be well regarded. My sources are Rega Apollo CD Player, Sony Z Series and X Series Walkmans. I also have Hd598's that I enjoyed for a long time when I lived in a small box in Singapore and was unable to have a full loudspeaker setup. I also have an Audioquest King Cobra interconnect (from years ago) , Chord Silver Conductor RCA's and standard $10 RCA cables. In my opinion the combo is so revealing that yes cable changes can clearly be heard.
> 
> BTW  I am 42 and struggle to hear past 18Kz!



Welcome! You have a great setup. Fun to look around the various threads here.


----------



## johnjen

headwhacker said:


> Well I'm confused, are you saying you use your eyes or other senses besides your ears to listen to your music? If music is really where you aim your focus wouldn't you benefit more by shutting down all senses other than your ears to limit any distraction?
> 
> In my experience, I get laser focus attention and appreciation of music with my HD800 on if I sit back in a recliner alone in a dim lit room and my eyes shut.


I'm going to assume (a potentially dangerous thing, I know) that english isn't your 1st language.
Apologies if this is incorrect.

My use of the term "blind" in this case doesn’t refer to listening with my eyes closed. 
"Blind" refers to not being aware of the gear, where I am, etc., while listening to music of any sort, live or recorded.

In short *I AM* aware of the circumstances in which I am involved while listening to music.

And yes, I too close my eyes when listening and agree it does help with being able to focus more completely on the music.

JJ


----------



## headwhacker

johnjen said:


> I'm going to assume (a potentially dangerous thing, I know) that english isn't your 1st language.
> Apologies if this is incorrect.
> 
> My use of the term "blind" in this case doesn’t refer to listening with my eyes closed.
> ...


 
  
 Exactly, even if your eyes are closed why do you need to be aware of the gear you are listening to if you just need to be involved in music?


----------



## namaiki

Hello. If I recall, it has been said that Sennheiser used the Lehmann Black Cube Linear to demo the HD800, but what DAC did they pair with it?


----------



## kapanak

namaiki said:


> Hello. If I recall, it has been said that Sennheiser used the Lehmann Black Cube Linear to demo the HD800, but what DAC did they pair with it?




That was a long time ago in 2009. Amp design and especially DAC design for headphones have rapidly and exponentially improved since then.


----------



## henkie196

kapanak said:


> That was a long time ago in 2009. Amp design and especially DAC design for headphones have rapidly and exponentially improved since then.


 
 It seems a rather odd to assert that amp design has improved much since 6 years ago. I would think that little has changed in the past two decades in terms of amp design.
 DAC chip design doesn't seem to change much either nowadays. A little tweak here and a little tweak there, lowering production cost, sure. I've certainly not seen any exponential improvements, though I suppose I'm not completely on top of the new releases and such.


----------



## Moonhead

I dont believe cable makes any difference, but I have bought a forza cable only because it's a lot shorter than the standard 3m cable which is very solid quality.

I too believe our mind tricks us and you automatic have an opinion about a product because you can see it. Blind test is the way for me but not easy with headphones.


----------



## headwhacker

moonhead said:


> I dont believe cable makes any difference, but I have bought a forza cable only because it's a lot shorter than the standard 3m cable which is very solid quality.
> 
> I too believe our mind tricks us and you automatic have an opinion about a product because you can see it. Blind test is the way for me but not easy with headphones.


 
  
 I also bought an after-market cable for HD800, shorter and terminated by 3.5mm jack so it's easier to use with Mojo.


----------



## Nicklikesmusic

If you can't hear the difference between copper cables then I won't argue with you. But when you change from Copper to Silver there is a definite difference to the treble. If you cannot hear it then either your system is not revealing enough or you have not trained your hearing or you have poor hearing. If you have a very bright system then sometimes going to silver interconnects is just too much to bear. It was for me when I used to use a Yamaha Amp connected to Tannoy Sensys DC1 loudspeakers with super tweeters. It actually hurt my ears at high volumes with the silver interconnects and I got tired listening to the system. The other day I did a hearing test between myself and my daughter who is 11. She could hear over 21kHz easily, maybe 22kHz and I up to 18kHz (but a real struggle). Over 18Khz I could not hear the sound but it was still affecting me and I felt uncomfortable. I also tested my Physics class of 20 students and there was a large variation in hearing between the students. 
  
 Some people also have a very poor 'audio' memory that you can improve upon. Personally for me it took years before I was able to distinguish between CD players/ cables because every time I heard an audio extract I forgot what I heard within about 5 seconds!


----------



## ruthieandjohn

nicklikesmusic said:


> If you can't hear the difference between copper cables then I won't argue with you. But when you change from Copper to Silver there is a definite difference to the treble. If you cannot hear it then either your system is not revealing enough or you have not trained your hearing or you have poor hearing. If you have a very bright system then sometimes going to silver interconnects is just too much to bear. It was for me when I used to use a Yamaha Amp connected to Tannoy Sensys DC1 loudspeakers with super tweeters. It actually hurt my ears at high volumes with the silver interconnects and I got tired listening to the system. The other day I did a hearing test between myself and my daughter who is 11. She could hear over 21kHz easily, maybe 22kHz and I up to 18kHz (but a real struggle). Over 18Khz I could not hear the sound but it was still affecting me and I felt uncomfortable. I also tested my Physics class of 20 students and there was a large variation in hearing between the students.
> 
> Some people also have a very poor 'audio' memory that you can improve upon. Personally for me it took years before I was able to distinguish between CD players/ cables because every time I heard an audio extract I forgot what I heard within about 5 seconds!


 
 Does anyone know the physical basis that causes a copper cable to sound different than a silver cable?  If silver gives a difference in the treble, does a measurement of impedance vs. frequency behave differently in the treble region for a copper than for a silver (I know... better asked in the Sound Science section, but I didn't really see a discussion of copper vs. silver there).


----------



## Nicklikesmusic

Copper and Silver have different conductivities.


----------



## Nicklikesmusic

electrons flow slightly more easily through silver compared to copper.


----------



## Nicklikesmusic

Why does that translate into a brighter treble I couldn't tell you but I would be interested to know.


----------



## bfreedma

nicklikesmusic said:


> electrons flow slightly more easily through silver compared to copper.


 
  
 What would that have to do with different audio output characteristics?  It might matter if your cable was a few miles long.....


----------



## potkettleblack

Great video revealing more details about the HD800s:
  

  
  
 Whoever made it deserves a beer.


----------



## shultzee

potkettleblack said:


> Great video revealing more details about the HD800s:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 Hilarious


----------



## Wildcatsare1

potkettleblack said:


> Great video revealing more details about the HD800s:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Lee, this is hilarious, more than a beer, a bottle of the finest Scotch!


----------



## high-fidelity

Hello guys,
  
 I think to buy Aurender FLOW for HD800.But,I don't know something about this setup.
  
  
 Does/Did anybody use it? 
  
 And can somebody tell experiments of them?
  
  
  
 Users compare it with Chord Hugo.But I wanna know the experiments of users.
  
  
 Cheers


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Listening to some music and enjoying it. It's too bad that all some people seem to want to do is argue. Unfortunately, that's a price of wanting to get the good stuff along the way.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

high-fidelity said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I think to buy Aurender FLOW for HD800.But,I don't know something about this setup.
> 
> ...


 



 Neither the Hugo nor the Flow is adequate to drive the HD800.


----------



## MacedonianHero

sp3llv3xit said:


> Neither the Hugo nor the Flow is adequate to drive the HD800.




Do you have first hand experience with that? I found the Hugo quite good with the HD800s. Actually it bested many full sized pricey setups I've heard.


----------



## mikoss

henkie196 said:


> It seems a rather odd to assert that amp design has improved much since 6 years ago. I would think that little has changed in the past two decades in terms of amp design.
> DAC chip design doesn't seem to change much either nowadays. A little tweak here and a little tweak there, lowering production cost, sure. I've certainly not seen any exponential improvements, though I suppose I'm not completely on top of the new releases and such.



With regards to DACs, a lot has changed in the last year even. Look into Schiit's multibit offerings... Yggdrasil and the MB Gungnir in particular.


----------



## headwhacker

macedonianhero said:


> Do you have first hand experience with that? I found the Hugo quite good with the HD800s. Actually it bested many full sized pricey setups I've heard.




Same goes with Mojo. I guess in headfi the work "adequate" has a completely different meaning now.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

macedonianhero said:


> Do you have first hand experience with that? I found the Hugo quite good with the HD800s. Actually it bested many full sized pricey setups I've heard.


 
  
  
 Yes. 

 Just in case this generates another question, allow me to qualify my answer.

 I fully understand that the word is as subjective as the word beautiful.  By adequate, I mean, does it sound close to what I've heard out of (1) Hugo TT (as D-A converter) and the GSX mk2;  (2) real instruments and live performance.  

 On Hugo >> HD800:  Snares are okay, a tad lean but they come through quite close to what you'd hear out of (1) and (2).  Kickbass however, sounds anemic and thin.  Male vocals also lack that sub-harmonics we typically hear when we listen to a microphone-recorded male voice.  

 On Flow >> HD800:  Snares sound closer to a rim-shot.  Kickbass is just a snappy thud.  The bloom is withdrawn too quickly for it to be appreciated.  For some reason, male vocals does have a bit more of body in contrast to the Hugo's.


 That is the reason why my friends and I have come to use the Hugo with another portable amplifier if and when we decide to enjoy the HD800 on-the-go.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

FYI: I am a big believer and a huge fan of the Chord products.  I have the TT and the Hugo and may get the Mojo this Christmas if the "other" thing that I am planning to try out fails to impress me.

 I am, however, just telling it as I heard it.


----------



## jlbrach

the hugo is more than adequate to power the HD800's....i sometimes wonder if people who make these comments even own the equipment


----------



## headwhacker

sp3llv3xit said:


> Yes.
> 
> Just in case this generates another question, allow me to qualify my answer.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Those are subjective impressions. The difference you are hearing could be due to many factors. Did you compare each amps volume matched? Did you test them blind?  When you say that something is adequate or not should be something that can be quantified. Isn'r it?


----------



## rayfalkner

jlbrach said:


> the hugo is more than adequate to power the HD800's....i sometimes wonder if people who make these comments even own the equipment


 
  
 You do realize that one doesn't need to *own* the (audio) equipment to experience its performance and quality, right?


----------



## kapanak

rayfalkner said:


> You do realize that one doesn't need to *own* the (audio) equipment to experience its performance and quality, right?


 

 Very good point. HD800 will sound like the HD800 (with all its superior technicalities) no matter what source is feeding it. HD800 will sound like the HD800 out of my HTC One M8, straight out of Motherboard Sound Card, Surface Pro 3, Sony PHA-2, Concero HP, or my Concero HD + Valhalla 2 combo. Of course, since HD800 are so transparent, you will be able to tell the difference and of course the more you move up the DAC/Amp game, the better the HD800 sound will get. HD800s scale infinitely, or at least as far as people have been able to push it so far.
  
 On a side note, what's with the resurgence of Chord Hugo and other Chord products fanboys showing up here every 10 pages or so?


----------



## sp3llv3xit

headwhacker said:


> Those are subjective impressions. The difference you are hearing could be due to many factors. Did you compare each amps volume matched? Did you test them blind?  When you say that something is adequate or not should be something that can be quantified. Isn'r it?


 
  

 Of course, they are.

 Unless you use a microphone to listen to a live band and measure its sound metrics and compare them with the FR of the HD800, you do not really get truly objective results here.  

 And yes, I use the same amp on both the Flow and the Hugo when testing it with the HD800.  My friend used a different amp.  And yet another, used a yet different amplifier.  

 No volume matching.  Hugo feeding line-level output to my amp required less voltage to get to my listening level than the Flow did.  

 I already confessed that the word  "adequate" is subjective.  

 The addition of an amp does color the sound of the HD800.  How this color adds to each individual's enjoyment of music -- is beyond me.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

kapanak said:


> On a side note, what's with the resurgence of Chord Hugo and other Chord products fanboys showing up here every 10 pages or so?


 



 Don't you think the underpinnings of this question is just a tad too territorial?


----------



## kapanak

sp3llv3xit said:


> Don't you think the underpinnings of this question is just a tad too territorial?


 

 If you have as many gear as your profile lists, which is more than many of us here are willing to pay especially on the cables, shouldn't you go listen to them and enjoy what you have, instead of preaching here on the HD800 thread?


----------



## sp3llv3xit

kapanak said:


> If you have as many gear as your profile lists, which is more than many of us here are willing to pay especially on the cables, shouldn't you go listen to them and enjoy what you have, instead of preaching here on the HD800 thread?


 


 Preach?

 Are you flame-baiting for a fight?

 I am enjoying my gears.  Someone asked a question earlier.  I merely replied that the Hugo isn't adequate to drive the HD800.  And instead of walking away when you didn't have anything productive to offer to the original question, you added garbage.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

kapanak said:


> If you have as many gear as your profile lists, which is more than many of us here are willing to pay especially on the cables, shouldn't you go listen to them and enjoy what you have, instead of preaching here on the HD800 thread?


 



 Are you a club bouncer by profession?

 Who appointed you gatekeeper of this HD800 thread?


----------



## atsq17

thenewguy007 said:


> Wait a minute.
> I thought the RCA or interconnects cables have no effects when connecting them to a amp or DAC. At least that's what people have been telling me.
> 
> Now the headphone cable matters as well as the cables that hook up the amp to the DAC?




Yes.

I was initially a skeptic who wanted this cable nonsense to be false for the sake of my wallet.

I did however try a monster cable rca vs RadioShack quality and found the monster cable to be "bassier". This was when i was a starting novice and i tried multiple times and got others to try in order to substantiate. 

Anyway it was a shock to me then but i reluctantly embraced the role cables played.


----------



## Duncan

kapanak said:


> On a side note, what's with the resurgence of Chord Hugo and other Chord products fanboys showing up here every 10 pages or so?


Excuse me? What is that supposed to imply?

If it was (for example) LCD owners that were "crashing the party" then to be fair I could understand a response such as this, but you need something to drive your headphones don't you?

I find this quite an inflammatory attitude, using the term "fanboys", as was mentioned by another member, who exactly made you gatekeeper of this thread, deciding which members could post? If you have a specific problem with people spamming threads, that is what the report a post button is for...

As to questioning the sheer amount of gear someone has?? I only have a small portion of my gear in my profile, anyone at anytime can, and does ask me about things not listed, but to call someone out on that, unless they are stating FACT about a product they have neither owned not listened to, again there is no need to goad them on it.

This thread has on the most part been civil for many hundreds of pages, let's not ruin it now!

If you feel the need to flesh out opinions (for balance) please take this to PM with me and I will review and edit / delete posts as required.


----------



## joespride

mikoss said:


> With regards to DACs, a lot has changed in the last year even. Look into Schiit's multibit offerings... Yggdrasil and the MB Gungnir in particular.


 
 Are these new tech,  Multibit R2R has been around for awhile..................I would stick with Gumby and YGGY if I were looking at Schiit they are booth more traditional versions of MultiBit, the Bifrost was / is a compromise for space and is not discreet design instead uses filtering and IMHO has a definite digital edge


----------



## atsq17

Just wanted to share a really strange and possibly unnecessarily complex setup I currently have which sounds AMAZING with the HD800. 
  
 So starting with source...
  
 Macbook Pro Retina -> Foobar WASAPI -> TotalDAC D1 USB Cable -> Audiophilleo1 -> LH Labs Pulse Infinity (FTM filter) -> Crystal Cable Ultra XLR (silver cables with Furutech Connectors) -> Auralic Taurus (MkI) -> Black Cat Lectraline Xe (Silver RCA) -> Bottlehead Crack with Speedball, Stepped Attenuator, Mundorf Mcaps, Cleartop 12AU7 and Winged Svetlana 6ASG7 -> Norne Arcane Hybrid Litz 6.25mm SE to 4 pin XLR converter -> Norne Solv X hybrid litz cable with Furutech HD800 connectors -> HD800 (3XXXX series). 
  
 So yes, I have the Taurus acting as a pre-amp to the Crack and for some weird reason, it's seems to result in smoother yet more detailed sound than the Taurus alone or the Crack alone. 
  
 Anyway, about to put the HD800 on for some music enjoyment.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

kapanak said:


> On a side note, what's with the resurgence of Chord Hugo and other Chord products fanboys showing up here every 10 pages or so?



For the most recent round of Chord praise, there had been a sequence of posts about how Chord Hugo and other Chords were inadequate for the HD800. It got sufficiently inflammatory that the moderators deleted much of it as off topic.


----------



## Thenewguy007

kapanak said:


> If you have as many gear as your profile lists, which is more than many of us here are willing to pay especially on the cables, shouldn't you go listen to them and enjoy what you have, instead of preaching here on the HD800 thread?


 
  
 lol didn't you audition 8 different ultra high end amps yourself?


----------



## kapanak

thenewguy007 said:


> lol didn't you audition 8 different ultra high end amps yourself?




I loaned and borrowed them. I decided to keep my setup and long term loan the Auralic Taurus MKII from a friend doing overseas studies. And not ultra high end, just regular high end  

Regarding above comments I made, I read the expressed overzealous love of Chord products out of context it seems, as some of the other posts were deleted, and I only saw half of the disccusion/argument.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

kapanak said:


> I loaned and borrowed them. I decided to keep my setup and long term loan the Auralic Taurus MKII from a friend doing overseas studies. And not ultra high end, just regular high end
> 
> Regarding above comments I made, I read the expressed overzealous love of Chord products out of context it seems, as some of the other posts were deleted, and I only saw half of the disccusion/argument.





The Auralic Taurus Mk. 2 is an excellent choice for the 800and it is playing very well with a loaner LCD-X I have in house. Versatile excellent sounding amp, IMO.


----------



## rawrster

Has anyone here heard the HD800 with the Auralic Taurus amp and the Ayre QB-9 DAC? I'm considering upgrading my dac sometime in the future and would like to look at my options.


----------



## Dadracer

rawrster said:


> Has anyone here heard the HD800 with the Auralic Taurus amp and the Ayre QB-9 DAC? I'm considering upgrading my dac sometime in the future and would like to look at my options.


I have the HD800 and Taurus mk2 and it's a great combo but the best Dac I heard to combine with this is the Vega but I can't afford one yet.


----------



## Currawong

Please keep the cable validity arguments out of this thread. Thanks.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The Aurender Flow and Hugo drive the HD800s very adequately, especially considering that they have to do two jobs in one box. For preference as a HP amp I'd choose the Flow, even though I like the DAC of it less. 
  
 I use a Hugo with a Studio Six for preference with re-cabled HD800s. I feel the dynamics are better from the Studio Six than direct from the Hugo. Synergy and the ability to drive headphones are two different things. The AK240 does a great job with them too, but for listening enjoyment, I wouldn't use the stock HD800 cables, as the result is too thin-sounding for me.


----------



## MacedonianHero

sp3llv3xit said:


> Yes.
> 
> Just in case this generates another question, allow me to qualify my answer.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Funny you should bring up the Hugo TT (as a DAC) feeding a GS-X Mk2 as that is my main dynamic headphone rig...and yes, no doubt the HD800's sound absolutely stunning on that setup and outshine's the Hugo (but that's not a fair comparison at all IMO), but your comment of the word "adequate" was what I replied too...because the portable Hugo was certainly more than adequate to my ears...in fact I preferred it to a few desktop setups I've heard. 
  
 I'm pretty much in agreement with Amos' post just before mine (including with the AK240...though I have the AK240SS and the HD800s sound pretty darn good out of that too for a portable upstream rig).


----------



## sp3llv3xit

macedonianhero said:


> Funny you should bring up the Hugo TT (as a DAC) feeding a GS-X Mk2 as that is my main dynamic headphone rig...and yes, no doubt the HD800's sound absolutely stunning on that setup and outshine's the Hugo (but that's not a fair comparison at all IMO), but your comment of the word "adequate" was what I replied too...because the portable Hugo was certainly more than adequate to my ears...in fact I preferred it to a few desktop setups I've heard.
> 
> I'm pretty much in agreement with Amos' post just before mine (including with the AK240...though I have the AK240SS and the HD800s sound pretty darn good out of that too for a portable upstream rig).


 



 Ah.  In that case it is a matter of difference in our definition of adequacy then.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

currawong said:


> Please keep the cable validity arguments out of this thread. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 It's a matter of preference.  

 I know that you're probably talking about the amount of voltage fed into the HD800 and I was talking about the sound I heard.  Let's just say that the HD800 scales with better gears.


----------



## jlbrach

the hugo drives the hD800 without effort and sounds great and the Mojo surprisingly does as well.....people are a bit nutty when it comes to amplification here..the idea of double amping a hugo in order to listen to the HD800 is IMHO nuts but hey different strokes for different folks


----------



## headwhacker

sp3llv3xit said:


> *It's a matter of preference.  *
> 
> I know that you're probably talking about the amount of voltage fed into the HD800 and I was talking about the sound I heard.  Let's just say that the HD800 scales with better gears.


 
  
 I alway hear "scales better" about HD800? How do you quantify this? What exactly is with the "better" gear that most people say that makes HD800 scale up. The better gear must must some attribute greater than the supposedly lesser gear. Then what is it exactly? Is it power output? THD+N numbers? 
  
 Or is it just HD800 sounded differently with different amps and you prefer one over the other?


----------



## Currawong

headwhacker said:


> I alway hear "scales better" about HD800? How do you quantify this? What exactly is with the "better" gear that most people say that makes HD800 scale up. The better gear must must some attribute greater than the supposedly lesser gear. Then what is it exactly? Is it power output? THD+N numbers?
> 
> Or is it just HD800 sounded differently with different amps and you prefer one over the other?


 
  
 In my case, with the Hugo straight versus using the Studio Six, I felt the dynamics with the amp were better. That is, there was more difference between the quiet sounds and loud sounds in any musical piece and the impact of those differences could be felt better, without, at least to my perception, any loss in detail. The difference isn't huge though. 
  
 The other thing the Studio Six brings is a different, if not neutral balance to the HD800s that sounds better. It is slightly warmer with the tubes I have rolled in it. The Mojo as well sounds different from the Hugo and might suit the HD-800s better (which I'll check once I find where I put my 6.3-3.5mm adaptors).


----------



## Caguioa

anybody kniow a good price to purchased hd 800? or should i copem straight from amazon?
and a good small amp if anything to drive them.

mainly listen to 
rap,
hiphop, 
trap,
dub,
club music,
rock,
metal (like songs from rock band,guitar hero that kind of genre)


currently just using ie800 with my ipad air 2 and iphone 6,
and beats sports wireless 2 whenever i go workout


----------



## sp3llv3xit

headwhacker said:


> I alway hear "scales better" about HD800? How do you quantify this? What exactly is with the "better" gear that most people say that makes HD800 scale up. The better gear must must some attribute greater than the supposedly lesser gear. Then what is it exactly? Is it power output? THD+N numbers?
> 
> Or is it just HD800 sounded differently with different amps and you prefer one over the other?


 


  Better - is a subjective term.

 That said, to my ears, I go to the real instruments in a live band that a childhood friend plays and manages.   The closer I get to that sound out of my headphone rig, the "better" I say it is.  Then again, the results are judged by my ears.     So.

 You may be partially correct about this statement.  "Or is it just HD800 sounded differently with different amps and you prefer one over the other?"


 Try using a FiiO E18 to drive an HD800 as opposed to using a Mass Kobo 404.  List down a set of criteria, e.g., Bass Body, Separation, Treble Air, etc..

 Then compare.  The results may be biased according to the assessor's ears but at least you get to have a better idea about how the HD800 scales.


 I am only replying to your questions -- IN NO WAY AM I PREACHING.


 Allow me to borrow and modify a quote by Stendhal, To each his own in this hobby of unparalleled subjectivity.


----------



## headwhacker

sp3llv3xit said:


> Better - is a subjective term.
> 
> That said, to my ears, I go to the real instruments in a live band that a childhood friend plays and manages.   The closer I get to that sound out of my headphone rig, the "better" I say it is.  Then again, the results are judged by my ears.     So.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Exactly, but when we throw quantifier words like "adequate" and "scaling" to describe subjective differences with gears just makes impressions non-sensical. Impressions like "bass body" or "treble air" is very subjective. It could be good for you but too much for others or too little for some.
  
 So going back to the question earlier "if Mojo is adequate to drive HD800", I am expective a yes or no answer in terms of an attribute than can be quantified like power output or THD+N numbers that when we reach a certain number, not a comparison on how it sound subjectively different from other amps.


----------



## Currawong

What headwhacker said, though it is pretty easy to hear when an amp can't manage the voltage swing with high-impedance headphones, as the perceived soundstage is small and narrow when it should be wide.
  
 Speaking of the MASS-Kobo 404, they had that with a pair of HD-800s on the weekend at the Tokyo show and that was a great match.  I liked it more so than his bigger amp with the HD800s.


----------



## headwhacker

currawong said:


> What headwhacker said, though it is pretty easy to hear when an amp can't manage the voltage swing with high-impedance headphones, as the perceived soundstage is small and narrow when it should be wide.
> 
> Speaking of the MASS-Kobo 404, they had that with a pair of HD-800s on the weekend at the Tokyo show and that was a great match.  I liked it more so than his bigger amp with the HD800s.


 
  
 True, but before you can even detect how narrow the soundstage is, the most obvious is the volume level. Especially, with tracks that has  very wide dynamic range. they sound very soft and/or the the sound has noticeable clipping/distortion at or near max volume level.


----------



## Currawong

headwhacker said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > What headwhacker said, though it is pretty easy to hear when an amp can't manage the voltage swing with high-impedance headphones, as the perceived soundstage is small and narrow when it should be wide.
> ...


 

 Yup, but an amp that clips with the HD800s wont meet spec to begin with. Even an amp that meets the spec, if the stereo image sounds like a blob in the middle, then it can't swing the voltage well enough. I found that amps that can't power planars well sound soft with fast music as a contrast. 
  
 If I may lighten things up a bit, I did my Valhalla II review with the HD800s:


----------



## headwhacker

currawong said:


> Yup, but an amp that clips with the HD800s wont meet spec to begin with. *Even an amp that meets the spec, if the stereo image sounds like a blob in the middle, then it can't swing the voltage well enough.*


 
 That or, the published spec is too generous than the actual output. I have seen a few amps and DAPs which the max output voltage is below than their published spec.


----------



## kapanak

currawong said:


> Yup, but an amp that clips with the HD800s wont meet spec to begin with. Even an amp that meets the spec, if the stereo image sounds like a blob in the middle, then it can't swing the voltage well enough. I found that amps that can't power planars well sound soft with fast music as a contrast.
> 
> If I may lighten things up a bit, I did my Valhalla II review with the HD800s:





 Valhalla 2 is possibly the best amp for the HD800 in the budget range, and one has to spend three to four times its price to achieve a more revelatory experience.


----------



## Currawong

I tried the Mojo with the HD800s just now. Very good results, much the same, apart from warmer sound, as the Hugo, the Studio Six/Hugo rig still being a bit more effortless-sounding.


----------



## Thenewguy007

caguioa said:


> anybody kniow a good price to purchased hd 800? or should i copem straight from amazon?
> and a good small amp if anything to drive them.
> 
> mainly listen to
> ...


 

 The used prices go for around $900 to $1,1100.
 I seen a few sell for under $900, but they were heavily chipped & didn't come with the box or the cable etc...


----------



## lukeap69

Yup, Mojo Jojo is surprisingly very good with the HD800. I didn't expect much but I was pleasantly surprised.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

headwhacker said:


> Exactly, but when we throw quantifier words like "adequate" and "scaling" to describe subjective differences with gears just makes impressions non-sensical. Impressions like "bass body" or "treble air" is very subjective. It could be good for you but too much for others or too little for some.
> 
> So going back to the question earlier "if Mojo is adequate to drive HD800", I am expective a yes or no answer in terms of an attribute than can be quantified like power output or THD+N numbers that when we reach a certain number, not a comparison on how it sound subjectively different from other amps.




I do not hear with numbers. Words like adequate may also qualify as much as they quantify. So I beg your pardon if I use words to qualify instead of quantifying.

In the matter of describing what we hear, we may politely disagree.


----------



## stevemiddie

caguioa said:


> anybody kniow a good price to purchased hd 800? or should i copem straight from amazon?
> and a good small amp if anything to drive them.
> 
> mainly listen to
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 I got mine (brand new) for $1,029 including fast shipping from the Italian seller on Ebay. Its the first post on the ebay page when you search  for HD 800. 
  
  
 Confirmation of Sennheiser warranty registration in case anyone worries that the seller is not authorised:- 
  
  
 Dear Mr. Middleton,

 Thank you for registering your product!

 The following information you have provided has been stored in our data
 base.
 Please check them carefully.
 If you wish to make any changes, please use our ticket system on
http://support.sennheiser.com/new and select category 5 (Help for Product
 registration).


----------



## Nicklikesmusic

My HD800's were $976 USD brand new and I bought them from an online company in Australia.


----------



## stevemiddie

nicklikesmusic said:


> My HD800's were $976 USD brand new and I bought them from an online company in Australia.


 
  
 Thats very useful information for future reference.
  
 What is the name of the online company and do they sell a wide range of headphones?
  
 Thx


----------



## Nicklikesmusic

kapanak said:


> Valhalla 2 is possibly the best amp for the HD800 in the budget range, and one has to spend three to four times its price to achieve a more revelatory experience.


 

 I am really enjoying my Valhalla 2 also. I chose this amp based upon a lot of positive feedback in head-fi and purchased without even hearing it. In my opinion it is very neutral and I can listen to this amp for hours on end. The HD800 / Valhalla lets me distinguish between all of my sources very easily and I find I am enjoying my music (which hasn't always been the case on my audio journey).  I have absolutely no regrets with my purchase.


----------



## Nicklikesmusic

stevemiddie said:


> Thats very useful information for future reference.
> 
> What is the name of the online company and do they sell a wide range of headphones?
> 
> Thx


 

 Addicted to Audio, free shipping for me as I currently live in Australia but I am not sure about worldwide freight. Yes they have lots of headphones/amps etc. I am sure you know about the new HD800s coming out shortly?


----------



## stevemiddie

nicklikesmusic said:


> Addicted to Audio, free shipping for me as I currently live in Australia but I am not sure about worldwide freight. Yes they have lots of headphones/amps etc. I am sure you know about the new HD800s coming out shortly?


 
  
 Many thanks!  Shipping costs will bring it almost level with some other sites but still, these are much less money than a lot of other places.
  
 My GF keeps banging on at me to use my 800's so if new ones come out then that's my excuse to buy.  Can't find any info on them though.


----------



## Caguioa

anybody here plan on getting the new hd800S

oh god and here i was planning on getting regular hd800 this holiday, no release or price yet though, my wallet will scream though


----------



## stevemiddie

I just watched the YouTube video where Axel explain that the sound is ' a little bit better' and that production is still a few months away.
  
 It looks great in Black though!!


----------



## Youth

It's been hinted that we will get more information at the end of January.


----------



## stevemiddie

This forum is costing me a fortune.


----------



## goropeza

stevemiddie said:


> This forum is costing me a fortune.



Sorry about your wallet! XD


----------



## JaZZ

sp3llv3xit said:


> Neither the Hugo nor the Flow is adequate to drive the HD800.


 
  
 Quote:


sp3llv3xit said:


> I do not hear with numbers. Words like adequate may also qualify as much as they quantify. So I beg your pardon if I use words to qualify instead of quantifying.
> 
> In the matter of describing what we hear, we may politely disagree.


 
  
 I do politely disagree with your subsequent justification of the term «adequate». There's not much subjectivity in it, it has a rather absolute characteristic in the sense of «worthy» or «of equal quality». In other words, your original statement was like: «The HD 800 doesn't sound good (enough) with the Hugo or the Flow.»
  
 Of course I dispute that. In my experience with the Hugo and several amps I've tried with it, the HD 800 driven by the Hugo sounds clearly better than with any attached amp. This to my ears and particularly according to my personal sonic ideals. It's even technically justifiable, as a statement from Rob Watts shows (linked several times already, but apparently overlooked by some).
  
 On the other hand I do understand the wish to modify the sonic balance of the HD 800, even when modified. I absolutely sympathize with that. But I would never use an amp for that purpose: It's absurd to amplify a signal that's already strong enough and as clean as it gets. You'll barely beat the Hugo's headphone out in terms of harmonic distortion and output impedance. I for one use the tool that's effectively meant for that – and avoided by the most vocal amplifier advocates like the plague.


----------



## joespride

I have installed some power conditioning today and I must say so far I Like it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.......................25.00 on the bay for some security for the system well worth it............not to start a war or anything but installing the conditioner (OneAC Cp1103), new power cords (signal cable) and an improved IC (Moon Blue Dragon).  I swear I am experiencing more weight to the sound, better separation 
  
 Even if is is imagined at least I am now pretty well protected from surge ............... its all good


----------



## Nicklikesmusic

stevemiddie said:


> I just watched the YouTube video where Axel explain that the sound is ' a little bit better' and that production is still a few months away.
> 
> It looks great in Black though!!


 

 When you look at frequency graphs posted online (from Sennheiser's own testing certificates) you can see a large variation in the frequency response of various HD800 headphones. Some have a large peak @ 6Khz and some are quite flat. It is my thinking (and possibly very wrong) that the new HD800s mod/helmholtz resonator/ extra material/ whatever you want to call it will cause the opposite problem. i.e. there will be some customers who will claim that the midrange is slightly recessed (those who get a original perfect driver before mod is applied). Also we do not know if the new 'mod' will cause any other issues. Normally in this world you do not get an advantage without at least some small tradeoff.
  
 Or.. Sennheiser of course realise this and this is the reason why they are keeping both HD800 and S lines going in parallel. Those drivers which exceed the current 6Khz threshold are sent to the 'S' line whilst those within normal tolerance are used in the standard HD800 line. Sennheiser are happy as they give the consumer what they think they want (after reading complaints on forums), can lower their rejection rate of drivers, lower their inventory of balanced cable and keep sales humming along until the next new release.
  
 In my humble opinion, if you have the HD800 model with a good frequency response certificate then you shouldn't feel the need to upgrade (although we all like new shiny things). If you have a model with a clear peak and you value your hobby above all else then the decision gets harder.
 The other thing to consider is that the HD800 is a known beast. Some people have wasted small fortunes on finding appropriate amplifiers which match their characteristics, the HD800S is not a known quantity, it is possible that in the pursuit of headphone glory that you will also be compelled to swap your amp (possibly more than once) until the meta becomes established. But then that is part of the rush for many people here....


----------



## sp3llv3xit

jazz said:


> I do politely disagree with your subsequent justification of the term «adequate». There's not much subjectivity in it, it has a rather absolute characteristic in the sense of «worthy» or «of equal quality». In other words, your original statement was like: «The HD 800 doesn't sound good (enough) with the Hugo or the Flow.»
> 
> Of course I dispute that. In my experience with the Hugo and several amps I've tried with it, the HD 800 driven by the Hugo sounds clearly better than with any attached amp. This to my ears and particularly according to my personal sonic ideals. It's even technically justifiable, as a statement from Rob Watts shows (linked several times already, but apparently overlooked by some).
> 
> On the other hand I do understand the wish to modify the sonic balance of the HD 800, even when modified. I absolutely sympathize with that. But I would never use an amp for that purpose: It's absurd to amplify a signal that's already strong enough and as clean as it gets. You'll barely beat the Hugo's headphone out in terms of harmonic distortion and output impedance. I for one use the tool that's effectively meant for that – and avoided by the most vocal amplifier advocates like the plague.






We can disagree then. That's the beauty of this hobby.


I have tried using the HD800 with the Hugo only and the pairing sounds like a flat studio monitor. I understand why people like it. Low THD. 

It just so happens that I prefer a beefier bass out of the HD800. I have heard the Hugo TT + GSX mkII drive the 800. That sounds sublime. I have also tried the Hugo + GSX mkII and the output while sounding leaner than the TT + GSX's, the sound I heard has certainly way more body to it than simply using the Hugo to drive the 800.

Btw, I used the RCA line out to pair with the GSX.


You prefer to use the Hugo only. I prefer to use the Hugo + another amp. There's no conflict here.


----------



## headwhacker

sp3llv3xit said:


> We can disagree then. That's the beauty of this hobby.
> 
> 
> I have tried using the HD800 with the Hugo only and the pairing sounds like a flat studio monitor. I understand why people like it. Low THD.
> ...


 
  
 What you are talking about is a simple EQ which is more cost efficient if you only need to alter the Frequency Response of HD800 instead of trying a plethora of amps to get the sound you want. Still it's your choice and nobody can tell you you can't do that.
  
 But saying other amps "not adequate" not only for HD800 but other headphones as well because of ones subjective opinion to me is the ugly. People spend time in forums like this to get information. I'm not against subjective impression. But when it comes to comparing gears especially ones making a buying decision. Subjective opinions has no merits. In fact it only causes regrets.


----------



## rawrster

headwhacker said:


> What you are talking about is a simple EQ which is more cost efficient if you only need to alter the Frequency Response of HD800 instead of trying a plethora of amps to get the sound you want. Still it's your choice and nobody can tell you you can't do that.
> 
> But saying other amps "not adequate" not only for HD800 but other headphones as well because of ones subjective opinion to me is the ugly. People spend time in forums like this to get information. I'm not against subjective impression. But when it comes to comparing gears especially ones making a buying decision. Subjective opinions has no merits. In fact it only causes regrets.


 
  
 Most of the posts in this forum is subjective


----------



## elvergun

headwhacker said:


> What you are talking about is a simple EQ which is more cost efficient if you only need to alter the Frequency Response of HD800 instead of trying a plethora of amps to get the sound you want. Still it's your choice and nobody can tell you you can't do that.
> 
> But saying other amps "not adequate" not only for HD800 but other headphones as well because of ones subjective opinion to me is the ugly. *People spend time in forums like this to get information.* I'm not against subjective impression. But when it comes to comparing gears especially ones making a buying decision. Subjective opinions has no merits. In fact it only causes regrets.


 
  
 Someone asked if the Hugo was adequate to drive the HD800...and  sp3llv3xit gave what seems to be his honest opinion.   You will get a thousand different opinions on any forum -- that's just the way it is.  If we all agreed on what is adequate, all of us would probably own an HD650 powered by a Schiit stack...and we would all be pissed if someone posted that they preferred Grado headphones.


----------



## defbear

headwhacker said:


> What you are talking about is a simple EQ which is more cost efficient if you only need to alter the Frequency Response of HD800 instead of trying a plethora of amps to get the sound you want. Still it's your choice and nobody can tell you you can't do that.
> 
> 
> But saying other amps "not adequate" not only for HD800 but other headphones as well because of ones subjective opinion to me is the ugly. People spend time in forums like this to get information. I'm not against subjective impression. But when it comes to comparing gears especially ones making a buying decision. Subjective opinions has no merits. In fact it only causes regrets.


Huh. All opinion is subjective.


----------



## drez

headwhacker said:


> What you are talking about is a simple EQ which is more cost efficient if you only need to alter the Frequency Response of HD800 instead of trying a plethora of amps to get the sound you want. Still it's your choice and nobody can tell you you can't do that.
> 
> 
> But saying other amps "not adequate" not only for HD800 but other headphones as well because of ones subjective opinion to me is the ugly. People spend time in forums like this to get information. I'm not against subjective impression. But when it comes to comparing gears especially ones making a buying decision. Subjective opinions has no merits. In fact it only causes regrets.




You'll find all these amplifiers measure flat. Whatever is causing differences in subjective impressions is not the frequency response of these.solid state amplifiers.

As to what is "adequate" the headphone out of my laptop could be "adequate" just there is room to improve if you have the listening skills to hear the difference.

As to what is useful, I will take anyones subjective impressions based on actual listening experience over random regurgitation of prior knowledge claims read up from sound science.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

headwhacker said:


> What you are talking about is a simple EQ which is more cost efficient if you only need to alter the Frequency Response of HD800 instead of trying a plethora of amps to get the sound you want. Still it's your choice and nobody can tell you you can't do that.
> 
> 
> But saying other amps "not adequate" not only for HD800 but other headphones as well because of ones subjective opinion to me is the ugly. People spend time in forums like this to get information. I'm not against subjective impression. But when it comes to comparing gears especially ones making a buying decision. Subjective opinions has no merits. In fact it only causes regrets.




As politely and as honestly as I can put it, you may be correct about wanting or requiring more objectivity in this hobby.

However, in my defense, I didsubsequently offer an explanation as to how I arrived at that judgment. I listened to both the 800 powered by the Hugo and the live performance.

I learned something from you. And that is the necessity to be more objective in this hobby. Nothing is absolute though. So I will always maintain a certain degree of subjectivity. 

Please do not respond to this anymore. I believe you have sufficiently driven home your point.

Have a nice day.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Come on Guys, let's give it a rest, some people love the Hugo with the 800, some don't. Ideally folks can try before they buy, if not caveat emptort. Audio enjoyment is a highly personal, subjective experience. Next subject please.


----------



## defbear

I have stated in my posts, in various threads, how much I prefer a balanced setup over single ended. My Pono Player is a good example. And it does well with my HD800's and lcd2-f's. I had read about the ifi micro-idsd and was able to purchase one. Even though it was 'only' single ended. I took the ifi - idsd and my HD800's on vacation for 10 days. What a great sounding pair. The ifi - idsd drives the hd800's with authority. Plenty of Bass and great mids and soundstage and wonderful buzz words are all built in. The real treat is the treble. There's gobs of it, but this must be the 'smooth treble' everyone talks about. I do not get fatigued with this kit. I will take the ifi-idsd over my Bifrost uber / Lyr2 setup. So in my opinion the ifi-idsd pairs very well with hd800's and could serve as your only dac/amp and not feel like you are missing out on high-end.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ The idsd micro is very underrated IMO. Great device.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

Yes the micro iDSD is a perfect match for the HD 800 love them since a year.


----------



## joespride

wildcatsare1 said:


> Come on Guys, let's give it a rest, some people love the Hugo with the 800, some don't. Ideally folks can try before they buy, if not caveat emptort. Audio enjoyment is a highly personal, subjective experience. Next subject please.


 
 Agreed,  Subject 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 to death


----------



## ruthieandjohn

defbear said:


> I have stated in my posts, in various threads, how much I prefer a balanced setup over single ended. My Pono Player is a good example. And it does well with my HD800's and lcd2-f's. I had read about the ifi micro-idsd and was able to purchase one. Even though it was 'only' single ended. I took the ifi - idsd and my HD800's on vacation for 10 days. What a great sounding pair. The ifi - idsd drives the hd800's with authority. Plenty of Bass and great mids and soundstage and wonderful buzz words are all built in. The real treat is the treble. There's gobs of it, but this must be the 'smooth treble' everyone talks about. I do not get fatigued with this kit. I will take the ifi-idsd over my Bifrost uber / Lyr2 setup. So in my opinion the ifi-idsd pairs very well with hd800's and could serve as your only dac/amp and not feel like you are missing out on high-end.


 
 Any comments on ifi-idsd at $500 list) vs. CEntrance HiFi-M8 at $700 list for driving HD 800?  Anyone?


----------



## koiloco

joespride said:


> Agreed,  Subject
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I love my HD800 driven by my samsung S4 cell.  Any taker?


----------



## Nicklikesmusic

koiloco said:


> I love my HD800 driven by my samsung S4 cell.  Any taker?


 
 Well yesterday I listened to my HD800 directly out of my Macbook Air. I expected much worse ....


----------



## koiloco

nicklikesmusic said:


> Well yesterday I listened to my HD800 directly out of my Macbook Air. I expected much worse ....


 
 were you be able to enjoy the music?


----------



## Nicklikesmusic

koiloco said:


> were you be able to enjoy the music?


 

 Well through the Macbook Air the HD800 sounds like my HD598, except it doesn't go quite as loud. Still loud enough for long term hearing damage though. Through my Rega/ Valhalla combo you cannot compare the two headphones. The difference is vast to the point that I will never plug my HD598's into this rig anymore.


----------



## Nicklikesmusic

Sorry, forgot to reply to your question properly. If I never heard the Rega / Schit combo then yes I would be able to enjoy the music but I would be upset that I spent so much money on such a very slight change to my HD598


----------



## koiloco

nicklikesmusic said:


> Sorry, forgot to reply to your question properly. If I never heard the Rega / Schit combo then yes I would be able to enjoy the music but I would be upset that I spent so much money on such a very slight change to my HD598


 
 +1.  Great honest answer!


----------



## jlbrach

the centrance will drive the hd800 quite well,it is a nice piece of gear....i think it has ample power to drive all cans but it is not quite as refined as the hugo/mojo IMHO....but still quite good


----------



## Moonhead

My Superlux ha3d has more than enough volts for HD800, maybe if it had and enormous Price tag People Would be persuaded to get one. 
Sad but true.


----------



## christian u

I have one and for the price it is a fine amp and very handy. However if I turn the volume down to a very low level it favours the right channel and it is a bit harsh compared to my Avenson. But it can amp up 3 power hungry HPs with no problem and runs on 2 AA's for that price it is a bargain.


----------



## joespride

re the HD800 so revealing that they allow one to hear changes in cables ?  I have never been big on the cable end of things and always felt like they were at best a final tuning tool
  
 I have been using a Walmart surge protector, with stock power cords and Mediabridge (amazon) cheapo inner connects, I bought a Moon Blue dragon inner connect and a pair of signal  cables power cords as well as a OneAc power conditioner
  
 Swapping out the cables and installing the power conditioner seems to have added some weight to the sound sig, Bass seems to have tightened up with greater impact
  
 I am not trying to add to the cable debate, (Believe or not is of no consequence to me) I am asking if 
  
 Do Others find the HD800 so revealing that it is telling of changes in the chain like cables, power conditioner, etc...?


----------



## rawrster

That depends who you ask


----------



## koiloco

rawrster said:


> That depends who you ask


 
 +1.  
 If you can honestly hear the difference, by all means go for it.  Don't just pretend you do afterwards to justify your decision like quite a few ppl in audio hobbies.


----------



## shultzee

joespride said:


> re the HD800 so revealing that they allow one to hear changes in cables ?  I have never been big on the cable end of things and always felt like they were at best a final tuning tool
> 
> I have been using a Walmart surge protector, with stock power cords and Mediabridge (amazon) cheapo inner connects, I bought a Moon Blue dragon inner connect and a pair of signal  cables power cords as well as a OneAc power conditioner
> 
> ...


 

 I have purchased some high end power cords and interconects and I can't really say for sure I heard a difference.   However going from SE to balanced certainly makes a difference albeit for a different reason.


----------



## johnjen

joespride said:


> re the HD800 so revealing that they allow one to hear changes in cables ?  I have never been big on the cable end of things and always felt like they were at best a final tuning tool
> 
> I have been using a Walmart surge protector, with stock power cords and Mediabridge (amazon) cheapo inner connects, I bought a Moon Blue dragon inner connect and a pair of signal  cables power cords as well as a OneAc power conditioner
> 
> ...


In my experience, yes cables and other ancillary gear can make a difference.
Sometimes the difference is not 'better'.
Case in point I auditioned an all silver (5K$) ac power cable.
ALL of my bass from 100Hz down just vanished and completely went away, like I threw a notch filter at the bottom end.

What I have learned is, sometimes in a system there are one or more MAJOR what I call "choke point(s)", that are so detrimental to the overall SQ that until they are addressed other changes may not be perceived as better, nor worse.

My OMG moment was when I replaced, for the 4th time, the duplex receptacle with an audio 'tweeko' unit.
My jaw dropped, went thunk on the desk, and I just shook my head as I soothed my chin.
This wasn't the last time I needed to tend to my chin…
This opened up a whole new avenue of research and experimentation, which I have continued to this very day.

That's the thing about tweaks, you shouldn't stop trying, NOR assuming that this or that didn't help, because UNTIL any and all major choke points are ameliorated they will obscure all of the subtle changes (good or bad) that result.
And until your jaw drops on the desk you'll not know what a 'choke point' is, nor that it was even there.

And lastly YES the 800's WILL reveal subtle changes assuming the rest of the SYSTEM, as I put it, 'gets out of its own way'.
800's will present to your ears, with precision and finesse, everything fed them.

IOW they will scale like a muth'a.
They aren't a major choke point, but that isn't to say they can't be tweaked as well.

As the SYSTEM improves (by SYSTEM I mean not just the amps, dacs, HP's etc. but the wires and everything they plug into as well, even vibration control (or lack there of)), the ability to hear an ever greater degree of subtle cues, harmonics, room acoustic contributions, etc. etc. will increase.

IOW as the system gets 'better' more and more of the hidden or obscured inner details will become evermore so apparent, assuming the rest of the gear scales well with itself.

Sometimes some systems sound reasonably good without any further tweaking. 
This can then become a source of frustration as changes are made in order to make it 'better', which only serve to highlight its inherent deficiencies, because the SYSTEMS choke points worked in a complimentary way to hide or obscure its' deficiencies.

This is where the oft quoted saying comes into play,
"Sorry about your wallet". 

JJ


----------



## koiloco

^  More pwr to you...


----------



## Nicklikesmusic

joespride said:


> re the HD800 so revealing that they allow one to hear changes in cables ?  I have never been big on the cable end of things and always felt like they were at best a final tuning tool
> 
> I have been using a Walmart surge protector, with stock power cords and Mediabridge (amazon) cheapo inner connects, I bought a Moon Blue dragon inner connect and a pair of signal  cables power cords as well as a OneAc power conditioner
> 
> ...


 
 Two days ago I ordered a pair of cheap ($35AUD) Audioquest Tower RCA 0.6m leads and they have just arrived. I wanted to test between the analogue out and in of my Rega Apollo and Schitt Valhalla 2 combo. Compared to some $10 JB Hifi non branded 2m interconnects, here are my subjective impressions..... What first struck me with the Audioquest Tower is that they had a soft fat bass which softened the impact of certain drums i.e. they had no leading edge. I felt that the cheap RCA's had a touch more detail and sounded drier more holographic. Then I just basically swapped cables for the next hour playing the same song over and over. Then something happened, the newer cable's bass became tighter. I still couldn't pick a winner- they were just subtly different. Then I started really enjoying the newer cable like I didn't want to stop listening to the song, they were a little darker and easier to listen to. Is this all in my head - maybe..The difference is really slight but for ME its there. To put a number on it - if the difference between Rega Apollo and Z Series Walkman as a source is 200 then the difference between these cables is 5. This is because I can only detect a slight change in bass weight in the cables but the slight bass weight makes it more enjoyable for me.


----------



## SearchOfSub

cables do make a difference. I wouldn't have spent around $1,000 in all cables added together for my stereo setup if it didnt. Powercord and speaker cables makes most difference. Audioquest and kimber cables are good.


----------



## fuzzybaffy

Kimber kable had an exhibit in a recent Socal show, where they had two of the same headphones (Sony MDR-Z7), one without a Kimber kable, and one with, so we could do switcharoos and A/B them with ease. I definitely heard a difference - the Kimber kabled one had better treble. 
  
 Maybe it was just in my imagination or not, but it definitely made me a believer in cables. At least Kimber ones.


----------



## Nicklikesmusic

fuzzybaffy said:


> Kimber kable had an exhibit in a recent Socal show, where they had two of the same headphones (Sony MDR-Z7), one without a Kimber kable, and one with, so we could do switcharoos and A/B them with ease. I definitely heard a difference - the Kimber kabled one had better treble.
> 
> Maybe it was just in my imagination or not, but it definitely made me a believer in cables. At least Kimber ones.


 

 Well I kept listening to that Audioquest RCA cable for over 5 hours straight yesterday. I actually lost complete track of time just 'wanting one more listen to just one more track'. At the end of the listening session my ears still wanted more. There is added bottom end as before except there is now a very slightly better level of detail in the top that I can hear because I think a little bit of harshness has been removed. I used to think the slight edginess was detail. The wakeup call for me was when listening to Radiohead Kid A. There is a track with a tambourine in the background. For the first time ever for me it sounded like a tambourine should. Then I noticed how vocals sounded like the vocalist wasn't super close to the mic. The soundstage has changed slightly. Imagine placing a goldfish bowl on your head that represents the soundstage of the 2m unbranded cables. The front stage was curved to the point where the vocalist was always further away than sounds appearing in the left and right fields. Now the soundstage represents a box on your head where sound from the left, centre and right all appear to be in line with each other (hope this makes sense). So the soundstage now better represents what happens in a real room with speakers (with an infinite number of tiny speakers) and was believable to me. Consequently my brain could relax and I was transfixed for hours. An analogy could be this..Remember when those 3D prints were being sold in shops? You could stare at those prints and if you were in the right mood/ relaxed your eyes the 3D model would 'pop out'. Well thats what happened to me last night in an audio sense. When that happens as we all know we are just in awe and cannot put those headphones down. 
  
 My system has now been played for 50 hours so very possibly the change could also be attributed to the valve amp being more burnt in. In any case when I listen to the system now I can use the words 'fast, organic, liquid detail' to describe what I am hearing instead of 'fast, edgy, resolving'. My other cables will be arriving soon (issue with old stored belongings as I have lived in six countries) and I am looking forward to more tweaks and comparisons. Anyway, enough of my ranting  Happy Listening!


----------



## xp9433

defbear said:


> .... Even though it was 'only' single ended. I took the ifi - idsd and my HD800's on vacation for 10 days. What a great sounding pair. The ifi - idsd drives the hd800's with authority. Plenty of Bass and great mids and soundstage and wonderful buzz words are all built in. The real treat is the treble. There's gobs of it, but this must be the 'smooth treble' everyone talks about. I do not get fatigued with this kit. I will take the ifi-idsd over my Bifrost uber / Lyr2 setup. So in my opinion the ifi-idsd pairs very well with hd800's and could serve as your only dac/amp and not feel like you are missing out on high-end.





> *H1FiAdd1cted:* Yes the micro iDSD is a perfect match for the HD 800 love them since a year.\


 
  
 Interesting. I am going to buy an HD800 after playing around with EQ on my current headphones (following Bob Katz's feedback on the Innerfidelity Site) and realising I could get the HD800s to better match my listening preferences. On previous audition I loved the HD800's openess and detail but missed some weight and warmth in the lower octaves. With the Audeze LCDX I preferred the lower octaves but missed what the HD800 could deliver, so did not purchase either.
  
 I have the iDSD Micro and took it with me on holiday, returned today. Reading and relaxing system: (Samsung Note3 [Upsampling Onkyo HF player] > [Regen - when power available] > iDSD Micro > headphones). First time I have used it in this combination, and I agree the sound was surprising good.
  
 That the iDSD works well with the HD800 is a bonus!
  
 Thanks for the feedback.
  
 Frank


----------



## joespride

xp9433 said:


> Interesting. I am going to buy an HD800 after playing around with EQ on my current headphones (following Bob Katz's feedback on the Innerfidelity Site) and realising I could get the HD800s to better match my listening preferences. On previous audition I loved the HD800's openess and detail but missed some weight and warmth in the lower octaves. With the Audeze LCDX I preferred the lower octaves but missed what the HD800 could deliver, so did not purchase either.
> 
> I have the iDSD Micro and took it with me on holiday, returned today. Reading and relaxing system: (Samsung Note3 [Upsampling Onkyo HF player] > [Regen - when power available] > iDSD Micro > headphones). First time I have used it in this combination, and I agree the sound was surprising good.
> 
> ...


 
 Can you supply a link for the Katz EQ information


----------



## kapanak

joespride said:


> Can you supply a link for the Katz EQ information


 
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-participant-report-bob-katz
  
 Scroll down.


----------



## joespride

Thanks Much


----------



## xp9433

kapanak said:


> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-participant-report-bob-katz
> 
> Scroll down.


 

 This one as well
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-bob-katz-eqing-headphones-harman-target-response#mr3lq3vQY3vkv7F2.97
  
 Katz's advised that EQing headphones doesn't suffer some of the downsides of EQing full speaker systems, but I can't remember in what Katz publication I read it.
  
 I use Jriver MC21 parametric EQ (like Katz) after comparing HP response with Harman Target Curve and then modelling the EQ needed in separate software (Peter's Equalizer APO Configuration) and then adjust by ear from there. The results have been very satisfying.
  
 Frank


----------



## joespride

xp9433 said:


> This one as well
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-bob-katz-eqing-headphones-harman-target-response#mr3lq3vQY3vkv7F2.97
> 
> Katz's advised that EQing headphones doesn't suffer some of the downsides of EQing full speaker systems, but I can't remember in what Katz publication I read it.
> ...


 
 I have been playing around with the EQ as well (I also use JRMC20 Parametric EQ) 1 thing I find is when switching back and forth (EQ to non EQ)  It gets very evident how much dynamics are lost (For Me)  would you mind sharing your settings ?


----------



## raybone0566

Dave Matthews "Lilly White Sessions" on the hd800 is jaw dropping! They have so much going on in those songs & the hd800's blow through it effortlessly. No other headphone has given me that in the music feeling.


----------



## Taowolf51

joespride said:


> I have been playing around with the EQ as well (I also use JRMC20 Parametric EQ) 1 thing I find is when switching back and forth (EQ to non EQ)  It gets very evident how much dynamics are lost (For Me)  would you mind sharing your settings ?


 
  
 That's because the EQ reduces volume (remember the preamp?). You'd have to increase the volume when switching to the EQ by about 4db or so (maybe more) from the amp for an accurate comparison.


----------



## joespride

Yep I knew that ................. Thanks though


----------



## xp9433

Tyll talks about EQ in his review of the Ether
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/cool-and-confident-mr-speakers-ether-planar-magnetic-headphones#0O5XswCXUKHAxPKw.97


----------



## sp3llv3xit

xp9433 said:


> This one as well
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-bob-katz-eqing-headphones-harman-target-response#mr3lq3vQY3vkv7F2.97
> 
> Katz's advised that EQing headphones doesn't suffer some of the downsides of EQing full speaker systems, but I can't remember in what Katz publication I read it.
> ...


 


 Ditto!


----------



## MrMan

Can someone explain why someone would sell a pair of HD800s? I just got a pair and I absolutely love them. I tried them about a year ago and fell in love with them. The biggest gripe I hear is they don't have bass and they reveal too much detail making it unlistenable. Neither I feel is an issue on my modest setup.


----------



## atsq17

HD800 is definitely a good benchmark for a top headphone but there are others which might suit different people better. 
  
 For all its superb comfort, I actually found the Ethers more comfortable and while the HD800 scales very well, I found the Ether to be technically superior on the same amp and I preferred its signature slightly more. 
  
 I kept both for 2 months while I was debating which one to sell and I ended up selling the HD800. It wasn't an easy decision as I really did enjoy it but I couldn't justify keeping both.


----------



## MrMan

atsq17 said:


> HD800 is definitely a good benchmark for a top headphone but there are others which might suit different people better.
> 
> For all its superb comfort, I actually found the Ethers more comfortable and while the HD800 scales very well, I found the Ether to be technically superior on the same amp and I preferred its signature slightly more.
> 
> I kept both for 2 months while I was debating which one to sell and I ended up selling the HD800. It wasn't an easy decision as I really did enjoy it but I couldn't justify keeping both.


 
  
 I was never a fan of mrspeaker. Despite that I thought the looks of the ethers looked awesome. 
  
 I plan to get my Hd800 painted. Matte black and another color like the hd800s.
  
 I also plan to get a headphone stand that looks like easter island.


----------



## joespride

I would like to hear some peoples experiences with OTL amps paired with the HD800.........................For what ever reason I keep finding myself looking at OTL.  My first amp in headphones was the Schiit Valhalla I had it paired with the Schiit uber bifrost and listened to the HD650, and then later the HE500.  I keep romanticizing about the sound I had
  
 while my current rig is way more resolving and articulate I keep looking for that almost  hallucinogenic sound signature, It always showed up after a couple hours
  
 Man I miss that sometimes


----------



## henkie196

joespride said:


> while my current rig is way more resolving and articulate I keep looking for that almost  hallucinogenic sound signature, It always showed up after a couple hours
> 
> Man I miss that sometimes


 
 If it showed up only after a couple of hours, it was probably your mind that was going hallucinogenic, not the gear


----------



## kapanak

henkie196 said:


> If it showed up only after a couple of hours, it was probably your mind that was going hallucinogenic, not the gear


 

 Maybe it was the time it took for the first gen Valhalla to warm up?


----------



## henkie196

Shouldn't tubes warm more quickly than that?
  


mrman said:


> I also plan to get a headphone stand that looks like easter island.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Picture


 
 That would be pretty awesome, actually.


----------



## Nicklikesmusic

joespride said:


> I would like to hear some peoples experiences with OTL amps paired with the HD800.........................For what ever reason I keep finding myself looking at OTL.  My first amp in headphones was the Schiit Valhalla I had it paired with the Schiit uber bifrost and listened to the HD650, and then later the HE500.  I keep romanticizing about the sound I had
> 
> while my current rig is way more resolving and articulate I keep looking for that almost  hallucinogenic sound signature, It always showed up after a couple hours
> 
> Man I miss that sometimes


 

 Hey Joe, I use the Valhalla 2 OTL amp with my HD800 using a Rega Apollo as the source. You may remember we share the exact same frequency curve on our HD800. My source is a supposed analogue sounding cd player and combined with the Valhalla 2 - well I can't really fault it for the $
  
 I read that the Valhalla 1 is quite different to the Valhalla 2. The V2 is very neutral. If I let mine warm up for a while it just becomes natural and and smooth. Highly recommended.


----------



## joespride

henkie196 said:


> If it showed up only after a couple of hours, it was probably your mind that was going hallucinogenic, not the gear


 
 Its called system warm up,


----------



## whirlwind

joespride said:


> I would like to hear some peoples experiences with OTL amps paired with the HD800.........................For what ever reason I keep finding myself looking at OTL.  My first amp in headphones was the Schiit Valhalla I had it paired with the Schiit uber bifrost and listened to the HD650, and then later the HE500.  I keep romanticizing about the sound I had
> 
> while my current rig is way more resolving and articulate I keep looking for that almost  hallucinogenic sound signature, It always showed up after a couple hours
> 
> Man I miss that sometimes


 
 This is heavenly with the HD800.....just wonderful.
  

  
 Effortless power.....tube rolling is completely off the hook and the amp is very transparent to tube rolling.


----------



## henkie196

joespride said:


> Its called system warm up,


 
 It's good that my solid state amps are not (noticeably) susceptible to this, because I definitely do not have the patience to wait for a couple of hours before the music gets where I'd like it to be.


----------



## drhoooon

Hello, recently acquired an HD800.
  
 I think I need to upgrade my DAC and AMP...currrently using centrance DacPort.
  
 Any recommendation for both combined <$1000? been searching forums and google for past hour with no good answer..specifically looking for decent DAC <$400 if possible.
  
 Would appreciate any opinion!


----------



## ruthieandjohn

drhoooon said:


> Hello, recently acquired an HD800.
> 
> I think I need to upgrade my DAC and AMP...currrently using centrance DacPort.
> 
> ...



I bought the CEntrance HiFi M8, new at $700 and used around $400, to use my Sennheisers in a portable walk-around manner. It has plenty of power, charges up for cordles use, and has balanced, 1/4", and 1/8" output jacks, and it sounds great with the HD 800. This would be the XLR version, which has switchable gain, output impedance, and treble and bass boost.


----------



## rwalkerphl

drhoooon said:


> Hello, recently acquired an HD800.
> 
> I think I need to upgrade my DAC and AMP...currrently using centrance DacPort.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a Rein Audio X-DAC I am considering selling that sounds pretty good and would come in under your budget ($350 or so).
  
 PM me if interested.


----------



## WillB

Guys did you see this? Hysterical!
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkZPj9F0y18
 /Will


----------



## Sorrodje

willb said:


> Guys did you see this? Hysterical!


 
  
 1237 times... almost. Definitely hilarious.


----------



## raybone0566

I'll wait a while for tubes to warm. I enjoy the lush tube sound on the 650's and 800.


----------



## verber

drhoooon said:


> Hello, recently acquired an HD800.
> 
> I think I need to upgrade my DAC and AMP...currrently using centrance DacPort.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The DAC in the DACport is decent.. but the amplifier is completely inadequate for the HD800.  Would you prefer portable to desktop? If you are looking for a portable all in one solution I would recommend:
  
 Geek Out V2, $299 good
 Chord Mojo, $599 better
 Resonessence Labs Concero HP, $850.  It is likely in the same league as Mojo with preference between them being personal taste
  
 More details on my recommended stereo page.
  
 The Schiit Bitfrost would be my choice for a pure DAC around $400
 This could be paired with a decent amplifier for a <1k total price.  For headphone amps I would choose a used Headamp GS-1 (or other DynaLo circuit).
 If you don't mind the hassle of tubes, then the Bottlenead Crack+speedball would be a good choice.
  
 I would also consider a used all in one from Audio-GD or a Lavry DA-11 (decent amp, good DAC which doesn't do anything wrong).
  
  
  
  
 --Mark


----------



## kapanak

drhoooon said:


> Hello, recently acquired an HD800.
> 
> I think I need to upgrade my DAC and AMP...currrently using centrance DacPort.
> 
> ...


 
  
 For right at the $1000 mark, nothing can beat the Bifrost Multibit (MB part important) with Valhalla 2 for the HD800. Great great pairing.
  
 For $850 (And sometimes used as low as $550) the Concero HP is an unbeatable DAC/Amp combination, and can be used as a pre-amp or a DAC/Preamp by using a 1/4" to RCA cable (or a 3.5mm to RCA, which is more common, and a 3.5mm to 1/4" adapter).
  
 Avoid iFi products with the HD800.


----------



## 13713

raybone0566 said:


> Dave Matthews "Lilly White Sessions" on the hd800 is jaw dropping! They have so much going on in those songs & the hd800's blow through it effortlessly. No other headphone has given me that in the music feeling.




I listen to a lot of jam bands and the 800's are brilliant at representing the genre.


----------



## shultzee

kapanak said:


> drhoooon said:
> 
> 
> > Hello, recently acquired an HD800.
> ...


 

 I agree with above.  The Concero HP is pretty awesome at its price point.


----------



## drhoooon

kapanak said:


> For right at the $1000 mark, nothing can beat the Bifrost Multibit (MB part important) with Valhalla 2 for the HD800. Great great pairing.
> 
> For $850 (And sometimes used as low as $550) the Concero HP is an unbeatable DAC/Amp combination, and can be used as a pre-amp or a DAC/Preamp by using a 1/4" to RCA cable (or a 3.5mm to RCA, which is more common, and a 3.5mm to 1/4" adapter).
> 
> Avoid iFi products with the HD800.


 
 What's your opinion compared to WA7?


----------



## JamieMcC

Fwiw I had been looking for some time at upgrading the dac for my Bottlehead Mainline HD800 combo and recently had my own mini dac bake off between my current dac a Marantz NA7004 (network player) a MDHT Labs Constantine (NOS dac) a Eastern Electric Mini Max (sabre) dac and a Leema Acoustic Elements dac (Quattro 24bit/192kHz) .
  
 A few observations
  
 MDHT Constantine NOS dac
  
 This at first had a nice full body sound that impressed it was very engaging but after a short while it was very noticeable the fullness and presence in sound that it had did come at the sacrifice of bass and treble roll off which probably didn't help out the limited sound stage. Its  resolution was better than I had expected but in all I thought it was a backwards step from the NA7004 and not a good choice for the HD800's in my set up. This was the budget dac of the bunch and was never really meant to be a contender more of a purchase out of curiosity of trying a NOS dac  
  
 Eastern Electric the Minimax dac.
  
 The EE has received a lot of praise over the years and I had been eager to try for some time unfortunately we got off to a bit of a rocky start and at first I found it quiet fatiguing ending up with a headache after just 45 minutes to a hours worth of listening time.
  
 This all changed with a bit of tube rolling both E80cc and Mullard CV4003 worked very well in diminishing its metalic sabre glare and made extended listening a pleasurable experience. The EE had slightly better resolution and I thought the Marantz was slightly more musically cohesive in its presentation. The performance was definitely closer than I had expected between these two dacs which was a bit of a surprise.
  
  
 Leema Acoustics Elements dac, 
  
 This was a clearly noticeable as being in a different league to the others dacs in all aspects, resolution, pin point placement and separation both in width and depth of soundstage very musically engaging and cohesive presentation it has a way of conveying emotion in a performance wonderfully well and the more I listen the more its continues to impress.
  
 Definitely a keeper and simply superb with the HD800 and Mainline.


----------



## Rozenberg

mrman said:


> Can someone explain why someone would sell a pair of HD800s? I just got a pair and I absolutely love them. I tried them about a year ago and fell in love with them. The biggest gripe I hear is they don't have bass and they reveal too much detail making it unlistenable. Neither I feel is an issue on my modest setup.


 
 HD800S is coming out, that might be a reason.
 Another reason might be some people feel it's too bright. While it personally does not occur to me as I love bright headphones.
 And for those who long for bass, high end planars might be the better choice.
  
 HD800 does have bass properly though, and it's so detailed that I love it.
 My journey with headphones is coming to an end with the HD800 actually, just need a nice solid state DAC/amp for it that's not really expensive and I'll call it the day, hopefully.


----------



## kapanak

drhoooon said:


> What's your opinion compared to WA7?


 
  
 Here's my opinion.
  
 WA7, which I owned alongside the tube power supply, is a case of form over function. The built-in DAC is outstandingly bad even compared to a Geek Out 450, and IMO is an afterthought addition. The amplifier, as long as you have the tube power supply and upgraded tubes, which end up costing nearly $1600 iirc, is a good match to the HD800. At least that's what you will think before you've heard better options. WA7 is too smoothed out, and has a rolled sound, especially in the higher frequencies, to my ears. It is not a very refined amplifier, as much as it is a very pretty thing sitting on a table. It makes the HD800 sound ... gooey and mushy, and that's an insult to the HD800 IMO, because you are not taking advantage of a large fraction of HD800's technicalities and performance.
  
 A Valhalla 2 with stock tubes at 1/4 the cost of a WA7 with tube power supply (which makes it a full tube amp, like Valhalla 2, albeit WA7 with WA7tp is transformer coupled, meaning it plays well with all your other headphones too) is a far better value and a much better match if exclusively going to be used with your HD800 and other 300ohm+ headphones.
  
 Now this is not to say Woo Audio doesn't make good things. I've heard a DIY upgraded WA5 with upgraded caps and very expensive tubes, which match very nicely with the HD800. Similarly, I heard a WA6 DIY upgraded one, with upgraded resistors and caps and bypasses, along with some nice NOS tubes, which also sounded very good with the HD800. However, both ended up costing well over $1500 after all the upgrades were done to them, and there are definitely better matches with the HD800 for that kind of money.
  
 Disclaimer: All of the above is IMO and according to my experience and ears.


----------



## xp9433

kapanak said:


> For right at the $1000 mark, nothing can beat the Bifrost Multibit (MB part important) with Valhalla 2 for the HD800. Great great pairing.
> 
> For $850 (And sometimes used as low as $550) the Concero HP is an unbeatable DAC/Amp combination, and can be used as a pre-amp or a DAC/Preamp by using a 1/4" to RCA cable (or a 3.5mm to RCA, which is more common, and a 3.5mm to 1/4" adapter).
> 
> *Avoid iFi products with the HD800.*


 
*kapanak*
  
*Would like further feedback on your iFi comment, please. I have the iFi iDSD Micro and am considering the HD800. Others (below) on this forum have given praise to the pairing, so I would appreciate further discussion.*
  
*Thanks Frank*
  


defbear said:


> .... Even though it was 'only' single ended. I took the ifi - idsd and my HD800's on vacation for 10 days. What a great sounding pair. The ifi - idsd drives the hd800's with authority. Plenty of Bass and great mids and soundstage and wonderful buzz words are all built in. The real treat is the treble. There's gobs of it, but this must be the 'smooth treble' everyone talks about. I do not get fatigued with this kit. I will take the ifi-idsd over my Bifrost uber / Lyr2 setup. So in my opinion the ifi-idsd pairs very well with hd800's and could serve as your only dac/amp and not feel like you are missing out on high-end.





> *H1FiAdd1cted:* Yes the micro iDSD is a perfect match for the HD 800 love them since a year.\


 
  
 Interesting. I am going to buy an HD800 after playing around with EQ on my current headphones (following Bob Katz's feedback on the Innerfidelity Site) and realising I could get the HD800s to better match my listening preferences. On previous audition I loved the HD800's openess and detail but missed some weight and warmth in the lower octaves. With the Audeze LCDX I preferred the lower octaves but missed what the HD800 could deliver, so did not purchase either.
  
 That the iDSD works well with the HD800 is a bonus! By the way my front end is:
  
 Laptop > Fidelizer > JRiver MC 21 (EQ) upsampled to 705.6kHz PCM > iFi Gemini Cable > iFi USB Power > iFi Gemini Cable > Regen > iFi iUSB Micro > HPs
  
  
 Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## MrMan

Do new pads make a big difference on the HD800? I recently got a used pair and the pads are almost completely flat.


----------



## kapanak

mrman said:


> Do new pads make a big difference on the HD800? I recently got a used pair and the pads are almost completely flat.


 

 They certainly will improve the comfort even further, and seal better too. However, they do not have a significant effect on the sound from my experience. I would still get new earpads though, and headband pads too, since if they are flat, that means they have absorbed years of sweat, skin pieces, hair, and face oils of somebody else. It's very easy to swap out the earpads.


----------



## rayfalkner

kapanak said:


> It's very easy to swap out the earpads.


 
  
 They are not cheap though, haha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Fortunately the pads seem to last quite a while if the HD800 is used strictly for personal use only (no friend or spouse borrowing it and such), unlike Grado pads which crumbles on their own within a year or two even when not worn and also cost quite a bit to replace.
  
 edit: Makeups... Makeups are probably one of the worse thing ever happened to any device that is in contact with part of your face when worn. Don't let your wife borrow your HD800 when she's still wearing makeups. The pads god the pads. You guys learn from my mistake.


----------



## kapanak

rayfalkner said:


> They are not cheap though, haha :tongue_smile:
> 
> Fortunately the pads seem to last quite a while if the HD800 is used strictly for personal use only (no friend or spouse borrowing it and such), unlike Grado pads which crumbles on their own within a year or two even when not worn and also cost quite a bit to replace.




I had a under 7K serial number HD800 that lasted me four years and not once did the pads anywhere shed, or degrade, other than the foam getting flatter. I sold it just like that for $950 and bought a new one at the end of 2014. My gf turned to wife now wore the HD800 quite a lot too. Don't worry, these things are made to last. If you plan to keep it and love it a long time, definitely swap out the earpads and headband pad. Buy from a reputable/authorized place. Expensive indeed.


----------



## whirlwind

13713 said:


> raybone0566 said:
> 
> 
> > Dave Matthews "Lilly White Sessions" on the hd800 is jaw dropping! They have so much going on in those songs & the hd800's blow through it effortlessly. No other headphone has given me that in the music feeling.
> ...


 
 What he said.


----------



## Moonhead

Maybe pretty corny, but I feel these these two trakcs show some of the strengths of HD800 
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvvX5QM4z3Y
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEEENJOY! 
  
  
 This one should be one everybody list! 
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkVhiVXSQIw
  
 ENJOY!


----------



## DavidA

@Moonhead, living in Hawaii I've been to many concerts and have heard IZ live a few time and his voice is so smooth and mellow and also when he was still playing with Makaha Sons of Niihau,  Still get goose bumps when I listen to Over the Rainbow, but there are better recordings than the one you listed.


----------



## MrMan

moonhead said:


> Maybe pretty corny, but I feel these these two trakcs show some of the strengths of HD800
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can say without a doubt me and you have very different taste in music.


----------



## RogerWilco

We all have different taste in music, *ain't* that a wonderful thing


----------



## joespride

moonhead said:


> Maybe pretty corny, but I feel these these two trakcs show some of the strengths of HD800
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I
> 
> ...


 
 Outstanding selections I have them all except Over the rainbow which is now in my amazon cart,  Check out Eddie Vedder Ukulele Songs also Excellent is Vedder Into the Wild


----------



## joespride

davida said:


> @Moonhead, living in Hawaii I've been to many concerts and have heard IZ live a few time and his voice is so smooth and mellow and also when he was still playing with Makaha Sons of Niihau,  Still get goose bumps when I listen to Over the Rainbow, but there are better recordings than the one you listed.


 
 Please Share


----------



## DavidA

joespride said:


> Please Share


 
 Wish I could but best sounding recordings that I have are LPs and I don't know how to post the digital file, also is it legal to do.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I understood the request to be "Please share the names of the better recordings," not "Please share the music itself."


----------



## joespride

ruthieandjohn said:


> I understood the request to be "Please share the names of the better recordings," not "Please share the music itself."


 
 Correct,  would appreciate the names of the recordings


----------



## DavidA

Sorry, my bad, lost in translation for me, too much wine when I first read it.
  
 Best album IMO is "Facing Future"
  
 Next would be "N Dis Life"
  
 Check this site: http://www.izhawaii.com/Discography/


----------



## jjacq

Just a simple question, would it be redundant if I grab an HD800 as a companion to my LCD-X and Ether? Also, has anyone tried the HD 800 with the Mjolnir / Gungnir MB?


----------



## shultzee

jjacq said:


> Just a simple question, would it be redundant if I grab an HD800 as a companion to my LCD-X and Ether? Also, has anyone tried the HD 800 with the Mjolnir / Gungnir MB?


 

 I have the HD800 with Mjolnir 2 /Gungnir MB and to me its heavenly.
  
 I previously owned a LCD-X and it was very good but for my personal taste the HD800 is more enjoyable.


----------



## joespride

davida said:


> Sorry, my bad, lost in translation for me, too much wine when I first read it.
> 
> Best album IMO is "Facing Future"
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you sir


----------



## Pokemonn

Have you guys already read Mr. Kats's articles on EQ HD800??
 I have tried EQ on HD800, wow blow me away. Mr.katz's EQing killed HD800s thinness COMPLETELY and make HD800 very very musical.
 Ofcouse you need good DAC/amp and modification too.
  
 Please read his article and try EQ. it will blow you away!
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-bob-katz-eqing-headphones-harman-target-response


----------



## nigeljames

pokemonn said:


> Have you guys already read Mr. Kats's articles on EQ HD800??
> I have tried EQ on HD800, wow blow me away. Mr.katz's EQing killed HD800s thinness COMPLETELY and make HD800 very very musical.
> Ofcouse you need good DAC/amp and modification too.
> 
> ...


 
  
 With good and synergistic amp & dac no EQ or modifications are required IMO


----------



## Pokemonn

Please try it , its not difficult. Mr Katz's EQing transform HD800 to out of this world level. I'm sure.


----------



## Pokemonn

for me, Katz's EQed HD800 sound like ultra Hi Fi version of HD650 with massive full body. wow


----------



## natemact

Hi fellow HD800 owners,
  
 I absolutely love my newly acquired #08xxx HD800's! I managed to sell my HE560's w/Jergmod v1.5 for $850 and then buy a pair of HD800's for only $775incl.shipping!!! both on CAM, both in the same night! My HD800's have some of the usual paint chips on the edges, but hey, they're probably 5 years old now
  
 The 560's price recently skyrocketed to $1220cad up here (was $970cad). HD800's range from $1500-$1900cad!, because we're completely ridiculous up here lol. It was only recently they even dropped from their debut price of $1600cad to $1500cad at select stores. Our dollar's crap lol
  
 Where else can you trade your 560's up to 800's and pocket nearly enough cash for a pair of new pads to go along with 'em? O' Canada, that's where lol.
  
 Over the years I've been lucky enough to have had month long auditions with 2 different pairs of HD800's in my rigs. Once when I first started in the hobby with a pair of LCD-2.2's and LCD-X's driven by a BHA-1, and more recently, living with a pair for a month along side my 560's driven by a Gustard H10 and Matrix HPA-3B (ran fully balanced).
  
 First go around I chose the LCD-X's, but that was with the neutral Bryston so go figure. A year later, during another home audition, I chose to keep a pair of 560's over my X's through my H10. I was happy enough with the 560/H10 combo until I got another pair of 800's in my home for a test drive and the HPA-3B to go along with them. While the 800's are clearly the more capable headphone when driven from the H10, it's when you go fully balanced with the HPA-3B that the performance gap drastically widens, as well as the soundstage, big time! Gustard sounded 2D in comparison to the Matrix. I now really regret not being able to hear the 800's through the BHA-1's balanced output back when I had it. I'm sure if I did I wouldn't have a) sold the BHA-1 or b) owned the X's, 560's and amps, so I'm kinda glad I took the long way round to the 800's...they mean more to me now than they would've when I started out.
  
 On to give my pair a little Anax love this weekend but I currently have no problems with them being overly bright, so I'll just experiment a little...maybe no Anax at all. I'm thinking listening to vinyl helps keep their analytical side in check because they sound just sublime so far.


----------



## Dadracer

pokemonn said:


> for me, Katz's EQed HD800 sound like ultra Hi Fi version of HD650 with massive full body. wow


 
 Oh no, I wouldn't want my 800s sounding like 650s. I'm not sure what it is but I've never been a big fan of either the 600 or the 650 and much prefer the 700 to either of these. I am sure that would be considered heresy but that's just my thoughts and I'm not saying that I'm right and others are wrong.
  
 Moreover I can't be bothered with this EQ business or adding bits of felt and whatever.I know its a hobby and you are entitled to do what you want with your headphones, just as I am entitled to enjoy my headphones as they are.


----------



## Pokemonn

nop its not sound like just HD650, it sound like ULTRA HIFI 800 version of HD600/650 with FULL RICHNESS. lol I'm not joking at all. just please try it, very easy.
 .


----------



## Pokemonn

Also Its sounds like open backed TH900! Im not  joking! Just please try Mr Katz EQing!


----------



## Dadracer

pokemonn said:


> Also Its sounds like open backed TH900! Im not  joking! Just please try Mr Katz EQing!


 
 I appreciate your are not joking but also I am not joking either that I am happy with my HD800s just as they are and I have no wish to make them sound like other headphones. The only change I will make is if the 800S is significantly better than the 800. Otherwise I will just go and buy some more LPs.


----------



## Pokemonn

its complitly reversible ok, you can go back if you don't like it or you can tweak EQ settings. Mr Katzs EQing setting sound very yummy IMO.


----------



## Dadracer

It is very kind of you, but really no thanks. In any case how can I use it with vinyl replay as this is all digital processing is it not?


----------



## Pokemonn

oh i see. yes vinyl people needs a external EQer. PC/Mac people can use free software EQers.


----------



## tungx2

My impressions.
  
 I paired my HD800 with BMC puredac, it was great for classical music and instruments, but if I were to listen to pop or vocals, it's extremely bright. I couldn't listen to vocals for longer than 30 minutes without fatigue.


----------



## xp9433

pokemonn said:


> its complitly reversible ok, you can go back if you don't like it or you can tweak EQ settings. Mr Katzs EQing setting sound very yummy IMO.


 

 Because of Katz's involvement with Big Sound 2015, I tried EQing with JRiver's built-in parametric EQ - comparing the Harman Target Curve against Innerfidelity's HP measurements. Not with HD800 - that could be coming soon - but on AKG K702 which has a somewhat similar frequency response. I used EqualizeAPO software to model the right EQ gain and Q before trying them out in JRiver. (In my modest system, I upsample 44.1kHz wav files to 705.6kHz in JRiver feeding iFi Gemini 90 ohm cable > iFi USB Power > iFi Gemini 90 ohm cable > Battery powered Regen Amber > iFi iUSB Micro).
  
 I found:
  
 1. I played with initial EQ's after setup and ended up with slightly lower boosts in both the bass and upper mids. A bit like Katz ended up with. I suspect that Harman's curve is based on both trained and untrained listener's results. I think most audiophiles would prefer a trained listeners' target curve, which I believe would be less bold, particularly in the bass. I preferred 3.0dB - 3.5dB boost in the bass, whereas the Harman curve would have suggested a 5 - 6 dB boost.
  
 2. I found that trying to EQ out resonances in the upper treble lost more than it gained in SQ so I avoided it. But, that could purely be the quality of the EQ in JRiver? Bob Katz and Tyll use external EQ software and a VST plug-in for JRiver. That software is quite expensive, and that might give better results in the upper treble.
  
 Net result on headphones that I have used for a few years, was a much better overall and balanced sound. Bass was more balanced and and dynamic. Midrange improved both female and male voices. Nothing was lost - only gained. It is very easy to click the EQ off and on in JRiver for comparison.
 No going back - the sound is better, and signifcantly more enjoyable with the EQ engaged, IME.
  
 So if you are able to experiment with EQ and the Harman Target Curve on your headphones, it is worth giving it a try. Completely reversable and only requires a few days experimentation to acclimatise and find the best balance for you. You also might realize you have been missing extra musical enjoyment.
  
 Cheers
 Frank


----------



## MickeyVee

Totally agree but I'm luck enough to use the McIntosh though I sometimes use the Bass Boost at 2.5 or 5dB.  Totally natural.
  
 Quote:


nigeljames said:


> With good and synergistic amp & dac no EQ or modifications are required IMO


----------



## JaZZ

xp9433 said:


> pokemonn said:
> 
> 
> > its complitly reversible ok, you can go back if you don't like it or you can tweak EQ settings. Mr Katzs EQing setting sound very yummy IMO.
> ...


 
  
 You've done the right thing – congrats for noticing! The reason is that the Inner Fidelity curves are not very reliable – and the higher the frequency, the less so. So for equalizing high frequencies (actually not just those!) I'd recommend to use pink noise for detecting humps and dips. It's not easy and requires quite some patience, though. But it will pay off. – Initially I used the Inner Fidelity curves as a rather strict guideline for the HE1000, but the resulting sound never really satisfied me. My now curve gained by means of the pink-noise method has led to a totally different EQ curve (with very little similarity to a reversed Inner Fidelty curve) and a much more natural sonic balance.
  


nigeljames said:


> With good and synergistic amp & dac no EQ or modifications are required IMO


 
  
 Amps and DACs can't really compensate for unevennesses of the magnitude and characteristics of sound transducers, just make for an over-all higher forvingness toward them or a rough correction of sonic balance. With equalizing, on the other hand, you're largely independent of component synergy, hence can evaluate your gear solely on the basis of their objective quality (= accuracy).


----------



## johnjen

My 2¢
Try the sonarworks plug-in called Reference 3.
They have compensation curves for HD600-650-800.
This is THE best I have ever heard my 800's.

They have a free trial for 21 days to see if you like the results.

It does require a s/w player that has DSP built in to be able to run their plug-in.

But the results I'm hearing are WAY better than all of my previous attempts at EQ'ing, and by a wide margin.

JJ


----------



## xp9433

jazz said:


> My now curve gained by means of the pink-noise method has led to a totally different EQ curve (with very little similarity to a reversed Inner Fidelty curve) and a much more natural sonic balance.


 
 Jazz
  
 Yes thanks for the reminder. I had planned to experiment with pink noise, and will do so. There are measurement variations between headphones of the same model, so you are compensating for that as well as personal taste and expectation.
  
*Originally posted by Johnjen*
  
*Try the sonarworks plug-in called Reference 3. They have compensation curves for HD600-650-800. This is THE best I have ever heard my 800's.*
   
Johnjen

 Aren't Sonarworks the company that invites you to send in your own headphones, so as they can measure and set EQ specific to your headphones? Costs a little more though.
  
 Cheers
 Frank


----------



## Pokemonn

Thank you JaZZ! We need help from headphone supremuse like you!
 and Thank you Mr.Katz and Tyll for great article on EQing HD800.
  
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-bob-katz-eqing-headphones-harman-target-response


----------



## SearchOfSub

pokemonn said:


> Thank you JaZZ! We need help from headphone supremuse like you!
> and Thank you Mr.Katz and Tyll for great article on EQing HD800.
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-sound-2015-bob-katz-eqing-headphones-harman-target-response




No problem.


----------



## SearchOfSub

xp9433 said:


> Jazz
> 
> Yes thanks for the reminder. I had planned to experiment with pink noise, and will do so. There are measurement variations between headphones of the same model, so you are compensating for that as well as personal taste and expectation.
> 
> ...





Do you know how much?


----------



## xp9433

searchofsub said:


> Do you know how much?


 
  
 From memory $120 to $130 + shipping.


----------



## Pokemonn

if you are CD player user, then BEHRINGER ULTRACURVE PRO DEQ2496 is not bad choice.
 DEQ2496 has optical in and out. you can EQ digitally.you can use it as tone control too. 
 price 299$ at amazon.


----------



## SearchOfSub

xp9433 said:


> From memory $120 to $130 + shipping.





I downloaded the software for a trial but it seems like it dosent run? is this a .exe file or do I need something else for it to work? wanted to try HD650 calibration. Thanks,


----------



## Pokemonn

I also own and try sonar works software. it not impressed me. it don't add sound richness, Katz's EQ setting does.
 I recommend to try another EQ software/hardware 31band EQer etc. I'm not PC guy but CD guy so i can't recommend softwares.


----------



## Pokemonn

EQing headphone/HD800s is one of the most biggest improvement on SQ at any price point in my life.
 So please don't give up, keep try.


----------



## xp9433

searchofsub said:


> I downloaded the software for a trial but it seems like it dosent run? is this a .exe file or do I need something else for it to work? wanted to try HD650 calibration. Thanks,


 

 if you are using JRiver under DSP Studio > Manage Plugins > Add VST ......


----------



## shabta

To anyone using foobar, what eq are you using?


----------



## PleasantSounds

shabta said:


> To anyone using foobar, what eq are you using?


 
  
 I'm using a +1.5dB shelf downwards of 125 Hz, the rest is flat - that's for Anax moded HD800, using the Graphic Equalizer component.
 The main advantage is that the same setting works equally well for my speakers, so I don't have to change the EQ settings when I toggle between headphones and speakers.


----------



## Pokemonn

I found that Mr Katz's setting EQed HD800 sound very euphonic like TH900. Wow...Mr Katz blown me away...


----------



## JaZZ

shabta said:


> To anyone using foobar, what eq are you using?


 
  
 The xnor EQ.


----------



## kameenadesi

jaw just dropped to the floor after some burn-in using iDSD Micro>iCAN Micro>HD800


----------



## kameenadesi

its kinda like the holy **** What eargasm experience like when I first heard the original Sennheiser IE8.


----------



## Dadracer

Why do you use the micro idsd and the ican together please?


----------



## kameenadesi

the iFi iCAN Micro is a solid state amplifier. The iFi iDSD Micro is a DAC/Amp combo unit. The amp section of the iDSD Micro is not as good as the iCAN Micro's, im my opinion (and a lot of other headfiers).

Since the Burr Brown dac chip inside iDSD Micro is superb, you can bypass its amp section and use the iCAN Micro's amp with it.

Using the double sided RCA cables (or whatever they're called) that come inside the iDSD Micro's retail box, you can connect the iDSD Micro to the iCAN Micro... and then plug your headphones into the iCAN Micro. 

Just make sure the switch called "Output" on the iDSD Micro is set to "Direct". This enables the bypass of the amp section.


----------



## Dadracer

Thanks yes I understand the how I was just unsure of the why as the micro idsd has an amp section as you mention. So you find the ican amp to be lots better? Ok I will give it more thought as I have the idsd and HD 800s. Do you use the iusb power also?


----------



## kameenadesi

oh yeah i hear a significant improvement with most headphones. Surprisingly, using the iDSD Micro by itself was useful with the AKG K812 pro>>> I preferred the sound vs iCAN Micro/iDSD Micro combo most of the time.

i don't believe the iUSB is needed in my case, as my source is an iPhone 5S.

*** I havent tried the Micro iDSD alone with HD800 yet, will compare and report back when I get home.


----------



## kameenadesi

ok, so i compared the two setups. The iDSD Micro with HD800 seems like its missing something, a fullness to the sound, and the bass. Im hearing details and treble. 

On the other hand, the iDSD Micro/iCAN Micro combo seems to fill in that emptiness with bass and amazing atmosphere plus all those details! More body to the sound.


----------



## Dadracer

Thanks for this and it is rather interesting. I use my iDSD mostly as a desk top system with my laptop although initially it was bought as a portable rig to use with my iPhone. I am not a fan of downloads due to my poor broadband speeds but mostly the cost as I would prefer to purchase the LP for that kind of money!
  
 So I use Tidal with my laptop and phone and it works really very well. I chose the iUSB as a way to improve the sound of the iDSD as both dealer and ifi themselves recommended it as a step up over battery power and now I await delivery of the iP2 which provides an even cleaner pathway of USB derived music.
  
 I will see if I can get an iCan on loan from my dealer and try it for myself from your recommendations.


----------



## kameenadesi

the iCan does not have its own battery built inside, it requires an A/C jack from an electrical outlet. So i guess thats why I never needed the other iFi products (iUSB, etc.) unless of course it actually makes a difference even after stacking iDSD Micro with iCAN Micro. Hmm, that makes me curious...


----------



## gearofwar

I got my HD800 a while back then was a bit shocked when stumbled upon Noble K10 being said having better SQ than HD800. Is it true guys?


----------



## drez

gearofwar said:


> I got my HD800 a while back then was a bit shocked when stumbled upon Noble K10 being said having better SQ than HD800. Is it true guys?




Yes and no. Mutli BA in ears can be very detailed and quick but tend to habe colorations to the sound. I dont have K10, but had JH Layla a while and that while super detailed and quick (and lacking the typical multi BA sound coloration which I find in the K10) lacked the inner resolution of my (vastly more expensive) HD 800 system. It all depends on the system u will use, what music u listen to, what your criteria is.


----------



## Zoom25

How do you guys find the HD 598 compares to the HD 800? I'm thinking of picking up a pair of 598 for my dad. Would love to hear a contrast with HD 800. Thanks guys.


----------



## MWSVette

zoom25 said:


> How do you guys find the HD 598 compares to the HD 800? I'm thinking of picking up a pair of 598 for my dad. Would love to hear a contrast with HD 800. Thanks guys.


 

 T​he HD598's are great headphones.  They were my first real set of headphones.  They began this hobby for me.   However they do not hold a candle to the HD800's.
  
 But at 1/10th of the price you should not think they would. 
  
 They are a great value and a good place to start...


----------



## Zoom25

mwsvette said:


> T​he HD598's are great headphones.  They were my first real set of headphones.  They began this hobby for me.   However they do not hold a candle to the HD800's.
> 
> But at 1/10th of the price you should not think they would.
> 
> They are a great value and a good place to start...




Thanks. Both my dad and I like the neutral sound from my HD 800. Although he's probably prefer a little more warmth. I'm spoiled by my HD 800 and use them exclusively. Figured the 598 could serve him well for casual use. How do the 598 sound out of iPad or other iDevices?


----------



## MWSVette

zoom25 said:


> Thanks. Both my dad and I like the neutral sound from my HD 800. Although he's probably prefer a little more warmth. I'm spoiled by my HD 800 and use them exclusively. Figured the 598 could serve him well for casual use. How do the 598 sound out of iPad or other iDevices?


 

 Funny, I have never owned an apple device so I do not know.  I​ used them with my Surface Pro and was pleased.  They are only 50 ohm and fairly easy to drive.  I did use generally use a Fiio E17 as dac/amp and liked the sound far better.  They are more neutral to my ears than either the HD600 or HD650 which I find to be warmer and more "veiled" than the HD598's. 
  
 Of course YMMV...


----------



## Zoom25

mwsvette said:


> Funny, I have never owned an apple device so I do not know.  I​ used them with my Surface Pro and was pleased.  They are only 50 ohm and fairly easy to drive.  I did use generally use a Fiio E17 as dac/amp and liked the sound far better.  They are more neutral to my ears than either the HD600 or HD650 which I find to be warmer and more "veiled" than the HD598's.
> 
> Of course YMMV...




Nice, I think if the surface pro works well enough then the iPad should work as well. Only considering the 598 because of their sale today at around $130 CAD on Amazon.


----------



## MWSVette

zoom25 said:


> Nice, I think if the surface pro works well enough then the iPad should work as well. Only considering the 598 because of their sale today at around $130 CAD on Amazon.


 

 The black limited edition ones are going for under a $100.00 US.  ​
  
 Almost bought a 2nd pair at that price...


----------



## Zoom25

mwsvette said:


> The black limited edition ones are going for under a $100.00 US.  ​
> 
> Almost bought a 2nd pair at that price...




Yup, looking at the black ones at well. They are 110 CAD before taxes. Really considering it!

EDIT: And ordered them.


----------



## MrMan

Is there any options for aftermarket HD800 pads? I really don't like stock.


----------



## tehsprayer

I have the objective 2 and Modi. Was wondering about getting the HD 800 on sale for $1360 CAD but is the o2/modi a decent enough pairing if I don't plan on changing my amp and dac?
  
 I currently have an order on the TH-x00 on Massdrop but can cancel and willing to pay the extra.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## MrMan

tehsprayer said:


> I have the objective 2 and Modi. Was wondering about getting the HD 800 on sale for $1360 CAD but is the o2/modi a decent enough pairing if I don't plan on changing my amp and dac?
> 
> I currently have an order on the TH-x00 on Massdrop but can cancel and willing to pay the extra.
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 Might be worth looking international. I got my HD800's for $700 USD from Australia.


----------



## tehsprayer

mrman said:


> Might be worth looking international. I got my HD800's for $700 USD from Australia.


 
 Although the dollar is bad, and worried about duties over the border. But for $700 that's really fantastic.


----------



## MrMan

tehsprayer said:


> Although the dollar is bad, and worried about duties over the border. But for $700 that's really fantastic.


 
  

  
 makes me think it was the DEAL of the century. 700 USD!


----------



## SearchOfSub

I wouldn't buy the HD800 for even $300.00


----------



## Duncan

searchofsub said:


> I wouldn't buy the HD800 for even $300.00


Being constructive (and hopefully informative) what WOULD you buy for the asking price of the HD800?

I'm fed up with not being able to find any full sized cans that match up to the clarity and intimacy of the Layla's...


----------



## SearchOfSub

duncan said:


> Being constructive (and hopefully informative) what WOULD you buy for the asking price of the HD800?
> 
> I'm fed up with not being able to find any full sized cans that match up to the clarity and intimacy of the Layla's...





I really like the tone of Audeze, so I would look at Audeze for me. But, if looking for clarity is most important thing, I would stick with HD800, it won't get much better. But if musicality is priority then Nighthawks would do the job. The Mojo was also voiced by the Nighthawks by Rob Watts.


----------



## shabta

searchofsub said:


> I really like the tone of Audeze, so I would look at Audeze for me. But, if looking for clarity is most important thing, I would stick with HD800, it won't get much better. But if musicality is priority then Nighthawks would do the job. The Mojo was also voiced by the Nighthawks by Rob Watts.


 
 Yeah and if you want to have severe neck problems later in life get the Audeze. Some of the most uncomfortable headphones I ever put on my head.Not to mention not much sound stage or slightly muted treble (or in the case of LCD 2 very muted treble).. Good bass slam though. Oh and there is a lot of variability from pair to pair...


----------



## Tranman409

if you have spotify premium, listen to the Anno tracks on this Oliver Davis album. 
  
 https://open.spotify.com/album/4f1w6hI7ughMqMmRMsDlIn
  
 So many little details with the instruments while she's singing is amazing. Great 20 minutes of bliss


----------



## kapanak

duncan said:


> Being constructive (and hopefully informative) what WOULD you buy for the asking price of the HD800?
> 
> I'm fed up with not being able to find any full sized cans that match up to the clarity and intimacy of the Layla's...


 

 Buy the HD800 and mod it, or wait and buy the HD800S.


----------



## nigeljames

Or buy the HD800's and realize there is no need to mod them at all.


----------



## AlanU

nigeljames said:


> Or buy the HD800's and realize there is no need to mod them at all.


 
 so true....for some....
  
 After I modded my HD800 I cannot go back to stock form. Rolling tubes to my ears will be enough drastic change to roll of the high's and add musical characteristics that I do not see a need for the new HD800s.  This is where I feel system synergy is also a big factor in all of this discussion. 
  
 This is another reason why buying a different brand/manufacturer will provide a totally different house sound signature away from the HD800(S) this will allow different genre's to sound "better". 
  
 IMO the HD800 is great but it's definitely "NOT" a superior headphone if your talking about sweet mids. The Hd800 is more analytical and not organic like a less detailed Audeze or Hifiman. Ultra micro detail sometimes becomes an analysis of music rather than sitting back and enjoying. 
  
 This is why I cannot listen to my modded HD800 without tubes.


----------



## tehsprayer

Would buying the HD 800 for $1360 CAD be good or save and get the TH-x00 on Massdrop? I listen to a wide variety of genres although mainly EDM. Conflicted right now because I only have the O2 but always wanted the HD 800s and they're on sale. But I feel like the TH-x00 is a really good price and should be valued much higher.... What to do !!


----------



## joespride

searchofsub said:


> I wouldn't buy the HD800 for even $300.00


 
 Thats good because it leaves more pairs for those that have EARS and strive for SQ above that of Beats


----------



## elvergun

nigeljames said:


> Or buy the HD800's and realize there is no need to mod them at all.


 
  
 +1


----------



## SearchOfSub

Is it true HD800S sound more musical than HD800?


----------



## MWSVette

searchofsub said:


> I wouldn't buy the HD800 for even $300.00


 
  
  


searchofsub said:


> Is it true HD800S sound more musical than HD800?


 
  
 Since they will probably sell for far more than $300.00 are you that interested? 
  
 The HD800 is a great audiophile set of headphones, maybe not for everybody, but surely worth far more than $300.00.


----------



## SearchOfSub

The only reason why I knock off hd800 is because of its unmusical, and analytical nature. Which is most important thing to me because I listen to music with headphones. If HD800S sound more refined and more musical than HD800, sure I purchase. I hope that 800"S" stand for soul. Since hd800 miss alot of it.


----------



## elvergun

tehsprayer said:


> Would buying the HD 800 for $1360 CAD be good or save and get the TH-x00 on Massdrop? I listen to a wide variety of genres although mainly EDM. Conflicted right now because I only have the O2 but always wanted the HD 800s and they're on sale. But I feel like the TH-x00 is a really good price and should be valued much higher.... What to do !!


 
  
 I have a Denon D2000 with D5000 wood cups.  I absolutely love this headphone, but the HD800 is just better in every way (except for the bass).    If I could only own one headphone, it would be the HD800.  The Denon\Fostex models are the perfect companions for the Sennheiser. 
  
 I got in the drop for the THX00 -- I'm hoping to replace the D2000 with the Massdrop model.   The price is just okay.  When you compare it with the price of the TX900/600 then it seems like a great bargain.  If you compare it to the price of the D5000 (used to retail for $500) then the price seems to be fair, sure, but not the greatest bargain under the sun.   It really depends on how good this Massdrop model turns out to be.  If the THX00 is better than the D7000 (used to retail for $800) then it is a really good price indeed.


----------



## MWSVette

searchofsub said:


> The only reason why I knock off hd800 is because of its unmusical, and analytical nature. Which is most important thing to me because I listen to music with headphones. If HD800S sound more refined and more musical than HD800, sure I purchase.


 

 Again the HD800 may not be for everybody.  However I find them to be very musical and like their analytical nature​.
  
 Why I asked is I have found personal sound preference and price have little to do with the quality of the product.  I have heard expensive headphones that just were not my cup of tea.  That did not mean they were not worth their price.  As stated the HD800 is already very refined.  Maybe that is what you are calling analytical?
  
 The information on the HD800S states there has been additional dampening.  How that will effect the sound and if you would then find it to be a better match for you only listening will tell.


----------



## raybone0566

With the right music the hd800 is extraordinary. Owning numerous headphones I can choose specific music for each phone. With the right music and amp the hd800's are magic.


----------



## MWSVette

raybone0566 said:


> With the right music the hd800 is extraordinary. Owning numerous headphones I can choose specific music for each phone. With the right music and amp the hd800's are magic.​


 
  
  
 I use the Schiit Lyr and adjust the SQ by switching tubes. 
  
 And you are right.  They are magic...


----------



## Youth

My biggest issue with HD800 is the treble peak, and then it could also use a little more bass. I have tried the Anax mod and I have tried with tubes, but it still bothers me. Otherwise the headphone is superb.


----------



## Mr Rick

youth said:


> My biggest issue with HD800 is the treble peak, and then it could also use a little more bass. I have tried the Anax mod and I have tried with tubes, but it still bothers me. Otherwise the headphone is superb.


 
  
 I use judicious EQ. A couple of db of boost and cut and I'm good. The 800s really don't need much.


----------



## Zoom25

searchofsub said:


> The only reason why I knock off hd800 is because of its unmusical, and analytical nature. Which is most important thing to me because I listen to music with headphones. If HD800S sound more refined and more musical than HD800, sure I purchase. *I hope that 800"S" stand for soul. Since hd800 miss alot of it.*


 
  
 What? What are you driving them out of again?


----------



## SearchOfSub

zoom25 said:


> What? What are you driving them out of again?




Edit.


----------



## SearchOfSub

mwsvette said:


> Again the HD800 may not be for everybody.  However I find them to be very musical and like their analytical nature​.
> 
> Why I asked is I have found personal sound preference and price have little to do with the quality of the product.  I have heard expensive headphones that just were not my cup of tea.  That did not mean they were not worth their price.  As stated the HD800 is already very refined.  Maybe that is what you are calling analytical?
> 
> The information on the HD800S states there has been additional dampening.  How that will effect the sound and if you would then find it to be a better match for you only listening will tell.





Well, the time I did audition it which was a short time, it sounded very unmusical in a/b with NH, Audeze LCD-2. Even compared to my own HD650, it sounds unmusical. I do hope the new HD800S improves on this regard. I know Senn's can do it, since my momentums and hd650 sound musical. Just don't know why it dosent with hd800. it should sound most musical since it is higher price.


----------



## AlanU

searchofsub said:


> The only reason why I knock off hd800 is because of its unmusical, and analytical nature. Which is most important thing to me because I listen to music with headphones. If HD800S sound more refined and more musical than HD800, sure I purchase. I hope that 800"S" stand for soul. Since hd800 miss alot of it.


 
 Since many have stated the "new" hd800S has slight changes in it's sound signature it will have the same "analytical" characteristic as the original mk1. Rolling off the high's and adding additional bass with the "S" model WILL NOT make it more "musical" 
  
 So much can be done with source and amplification with the original HD800.
  
 This is why using the Anax mod and tweaking of sound with tubes warrants no upgrade path getting the "s" version for me.
  
 To my ears the HD800 can be musical as long as your using a good source. I could not handle the HD800 if I strictly ran only solid state equipment. 
  
 This is why I've stated that an upgrade path or lateral change with different manufacturer would provide a different sound signature away from the well known signature sound of the original HD800.


----------



## shabta

alanu said:


> Rolling off the high's and adding additional bass with the "S" model WILL NOT make it more "musical"


 
 Just for the sake of accuracy, sennheiser is claiming the highs on the HD800S are "more extended" compared to the HD800 and "smoother". Early reports from folks who heard them in Vienna last week seem to concur. Just pickin' nits


----------



## MickeyVee

The HD800 signature is the HD800 signature regardless of amping.  The only thing that amp does is deliver the requisite power matching that they need.  What you are hearing is the characteristics of the amplifier and source, not changing the HD800.  It's about synergy.
  
 Though I haven't heard every HD800 / amp combo, I've hear enough through my own purchases and at HeadFi meets.  Give that and now owning the McIntosh MCA70 {same as the MHA100} and the Naim DAC-V1, I would find it difficult to go back to tubes and tube rolling.  The McIntosh and Naim provide the be best to tubes and SS for me.  YMMV.
  
 Quote:


alanu said:


> To my ears the HD800 can be musical as long as your using a good source. I could not handle the HD800 if I strictly ran only solid state equipment.
> 
> This is why I've stated that an upgrade path or lateral change with different manufacturer would provide a different sound signature away from the well known signature sound of the original HD800.


----------



## TMRaven

Treble extension is not something I'd trust from people who've intended shows.  Those super high frequencies could have gotten drowned out quite easily, as it's not something that's very audible.  Hell, half the time I don't even trust myself when it comes to qualifying treble extension in extended listening sessions in my quiet room when comparing headphones.
  
 The resonator does seem to work in smoothing out the treble peaks though, according to measurements from the community with their experimental resonators.  
  
 The extra bass and treble extension would be something I'd love regardless though, can't wait for full reviews later on.


----------



## MWSVette

searchofsub said:


> Well, the time I did audition it which was a short time, it sounded very unmusical in a/b with NH, Audeze LCD-2. Even compared to my own HD650, it sounds unmusical. I do hope the new HD800S improves on this regard. I know Senn's can do it, since my momentums and hd650 sound musical. Just don't know why it dosent with hd800. it should sound most musical since it is higher price.


 

 I​ had the chance to spend a week with the Nighthawks.  I found them to be a beautifully manufactured, quality product, that sounded quite musical and worth every penny they charged.  However I also found the highs to be very rolled off.  While the mids and bass extension were very good.  I do not like dark sounding headphones so they were not for me.
  
 The LCD-2 is a set on my list.  Hope they have well defined and clear highs.
  
 Again price has very little to do with you liking the sound of a given headphone.
  
 I also own HD600. I find that l enjoy them far more than the "veiled" sound of the HD650.  But to each his own.  And of course IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada...


----------



## Zoom25

searchofsub said:


> Out of "knock your ******* face out" amp.


 

 Have a good one!


----------



## shabta

tmraven said:


> Treble extension is not something I'd trust from people who've intended shows.  Those super high frequencies could have gotten drowned out quite easily, as it's not something that's very audible.  Hell, half the time I don't even trust myself when it comes to qualifying treble extension in extended listening sessions in my quiet room when comparing headphones.
> 
> The resonator does seem to work in smoothing out the treble peaks though, according to measurements from the community with their experimental resonators.
> 
> The extra bass and treble extension would be something I'd love regardless though, can't wait for full reviews later on.


 
 I totally agree. Although it seems that in Vienna they had an HD800 and an HD800S both coming out of an HDV800 amp so you  could quickly go back and forth. So, it isn't definitive, it is encouraging. We also have sennheiser saying that is how it will sound so expectation bias could be coloring the early reports.


----------



## AlanU

I will have to check out that reasonably priced dac. I've yet to hear long note decay with solid state gear that is less than 8 grand or so. I'd rather put that kind of money in a 2 channel. Tubes has been able to tweak at a much lower cost.


----------



## joespride

searchofsub said:


> The only reason why I knock off hd800 is because of its unmusical, and analytical nature. Which is most important thing to me because I listen to music with headphones. If HD800S sound more refined and more musical than HD800, sure I purchase. I hope that 800"S" stand for soul. Since hd800 miss alot of it.


 
 Back for more 800 bashing huh,  Funny for someone that hates the sound so much you sure keep coming back to comment.  It is really starting to look like you are just upset that you can not afford a pair or something...............Or you have an ax to grind.........................PS a short audition does very little in showing you the true potential of any headphone. You are stuck using the equipment the dealer has set up for audition and his particular settings for that equipment which he tailors to his idea of SQ.....................You can buy a used pair for 850ish now so stop hating and jump on board, Take the time to BUILD a SYSTEM and then your opinion will mean something


----------



## SearchOfSub

joespride said:


> Back for more 800 bashing huh,  Funny for someone that hates the sound so much you sure keep coming back to comment.  It is really starting to look like you are just upset that you can not afford a pair or something...............Or you have an ax to grind.........................PS a short audition does very little in showing you the true potential of any headphone. You are stuck using the equipment the dealer has set up for audition and his particular settings for that equipment which he tailors to his idea of SQ.....................You can buy a used pair for 850ish now so stop hating and jump on board, Take the time to BUILD a SYSTEM and then your opinion will mean something





Well, it is true that spending 850 in a hobby when I already have multiple headphones is not a chum change to me at all, but it's also not like I am piss broke. 

The audition for hd800 was used with exact same setup for multiple other headphones from Audeze,Grado,Audioquest,Senns,Hifiman. And musicality wise, it was not as good as Audeze and NH and hifiman which cost less. I do remember Grado 1000 being worse than HD800 though but even Audeze EL-8 had better musicality than HD800.

I did just remember the owner of the shop saying what most are saying here, you got to get a right setup for hd800 after I said hd800 sounds unmusical.

Maybe I give 800S a try.


----------



## shultzee

searchofsub said:


> joespride said:
> 
> 
> > Back for more 800 bashing huh,  Funny for someone that hates the sound so much you sure keep coming back to comment.  It is really starting to look like you are just upset that you can not afford a pair or something...............Or you have an ax to grind.........................PS a short audition does very little in showing you the true potential of any headphone. You are stuck using the equipment the dealer has set up for audition and his particular settings for that equipment which he tailors to his idea of SQ.....................You can buy a used pair for 850ish now so stop hating and jump on board, Take the time to BUILD a SYSTEM and then your opinion will mean something
> ...


 

 Just a matter of preference.  I had the LCD-X and much prefer the HD800.  You have pointed out numerous times you don't like the HD800.  So,  move on to another forum.  Everyone here gets your point.


----------



## SearchOfSub

shultzee said:


> Just a matter of preference.  I had the LCD-X and much prefer the HD800.  You have pointed out numerous times you don't like the HD800.  So,  move on to another forum.  Everyone here gets your point.





Well, you got that half-wrong. ME not liking the HD800 is a given, but my other thing is to stop other people from buying the HD800 because of the overblown hype people like you spew out. But I will move on, not because of your suggestion, but because I don't want to be associated with such a overblown, unmusical headphone like the HD800 in any way shape or form. Go ahead and spend another whatever sum of money on "trying" to get a good setup for it, amps, preamps, cables etc. When you could have spent half or 1/3 of money getting better satisfaction with your local HE and a NH or a Audeze with a normal everyday amp and cables. Unsuscribed - lol.


----------



## vnmslsrbms

If the HD800 was really the loser that the prior poster stated, then would it have survived this long?  In the end of the spectrum for analytical, resolving, and spacially superior headphones, this is the best.  People don't like it for being too much that.  Audeze headphones are colored to be warmer and bass heavy.  People like that.  I do too, and I own a couple of them.  I switch between the two brands because they are good companions to each other.  Some music just sound better on the HD800. BTW amping the HD800 to a suitable level is not hard.  They are just harder to drive.  You don't have to spend tons of money.  Just find an amp that has enough power.  If you can't even recognize that then you're in the wrong hobby.


----------



## Mr Rick

For good or bad, the HD800s are the headphone by which others are measured. That is why I own them.


----------



## tehsprayer

vnmslsrbms said:


> If the HD800 was really the loser that the prior poster stated, then would it have survived this long?  In the end of the spectrum for analytical, resolving, and spacially superior headphones, this is the best.  People don't like it for being too much that.  Audeze headphones are colored to be warmer and bass heavy.  People like that.  I do too, and I own a couple of them.  I switch between the two brands because they are good companions to each other.  Some music just sound better on the HD800. BTW amping the HD800 to a suitable level is not hard.  They are just harder to drive.  You don't have to spend tons of money.  Just find an amp that has enough power.  If you can't even recognize that then you're in the wrong hobby.




Do you believe the o2 gives a proper power to drive the 800?


----------



## Mr Rick

tehsprayer said:


> Do you believe the o2 gives a proper power to drive the 800?


 
 Here is your answer.
  
 http://www.audiobot9000.com/match/sennheiser/hd-800/with/jds-labs/objective2


----------



## joshk4

searchofsub said:


> Well, you got that half-wrong. ME not liking the HD800 is a given, but my other thing is to stop other people from buying the HD800 because of the overblown hype people like you spew out. But I will move on, not because of your suggestion, but because I don't want to be associated with such a overblown, unmusical headphone like the HD800 in any way shape or form. Go ahead and spend another whatever sum of money on "trying" to get a good setup for it, amps, preamps, cables etc. When you could have spent half or 1/3 of money getting better satisfaction with your local HE and a NH or a Audeze with a normal everyday amp and cables. Unsuscribed - lol.


 
  
 I'm not sure where that inner hate is coming from 
  
 People enjoy different sound signature, not everyone will be liking the same headphones, else there would not be variety of them.
  
 I think the HD 800 is not overblown (hype) and to me I have auditioned HD 800, Stax 009 and Hifiman HE1000 all together, and I can't tell which of these are better (Pretty much which sound sig you like).
  
 Remember each to the their own.
  
 P.S You should not force people to hate or like a certain headphones, they should really audition and be a judge for themselves.


----------



## vnmslsrbms

mr rick said:


> Here is your answer.
> 
> http://www.audiobot9000.com/match/sennheiser/hd-800/with/jds-labs/objective2


 
 That's a cool site.  Might I add I also like the OPPO HA-2 driving the HD800 as a portable solution.


----------



## jibzilla

searchofsub said:


> Well, it is true that spending 850 in a hobby when I already have multiple headphones is not a chum change to me at all, but it's also not like I am piss broke.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You need to get the right amp in particular. One with ohm output. Probably even benefit the hd800(s) as well. Source is important as well, I would say put a good half of what you spend on the amp on a source or you will be disappointed again. Not allot of amps out there with ohm output but there's at least 1 at 4 different price levels I can recommend. $1k bottlehead mainline, $2k Ecp dsha-2, $3k dna stratus, $5k Apex Teton. I would not go any less than the mainline, meaning minimum $2500 including source, it just scales that good.


----------



## JamieMcC

jibzilla said:


> You need to get the right amp in particular. One with ohm output. Probably even benefit the hd800(s) as well. Source is important as well, I would say put a good half of what you spend on the amp on a source or you will be disappointed again. Not allot of amps out there with ohm output but there's at least 1 at 4 different price levels I can recommend. $1k bottlehead mainline, $2k Ecp dsha-2, $3k dna stratus, $5k Apex Teton. I would not go any less than the mainline, meaning minimum $2500 including source, it just scales that good.


 

 +1 The jump from mid range to ultra fi levels in dac and amp is worthy of consideration with the HD800 not to say they don't sound very good on more modest set ups. But a synergistic totl dac/amp pairing really enables the hd800s to shine and show what they are capable of.


----------



## kapanak

May I throw in the Torpedo III with Cinemag transformers as being my favourite pairing with the HD800 now, beating my Valhalla 2, modded BH Crack and even the Auralic Taurus MKII single ended output. Truly Summit Fi level amp the Torpedo III with Cinemag.


----------



## Sorrodje

@Kapanak what is the budget for such an amp ?


----------



## joshk4

vnmslsrbms said:


> That's a cool site.  Might I add I also like the OPPO HA-2 driving the HD800 as a portable solution.




I too believe the ha 2 is a good pairing with the hd 800.


----------



## kapanak

sorrodje said:


> @Kapanak what is the budget for such an amp ?




Around $725 with Cinemag transformers. Has massive modding potential too (caps, tubes, volume pot, regulators, etc.)


----------



## gearofwar

I have been driving mine with Cayin C5 for portable solution and it's a great pairing. Not sure about HA - 2 , would anyone here do a comparison?


----------



## Nicklikesmusic

My 2c is that it is difficult to audition a headphone and come away with a definite judgement about it's sound quality. 
  
 What really got me at first was the speed of the HD800. It seemed like all of my music suddenly appeared to be played faster. I think that there was so much going on spatially, combined with the very fast transient response - it took me some getting used to.
  
 Also in my opinion the brain can get used to any sound signature you throw at it and it will adapt and it will think it is the norm. Throw something else the brains way and some strange results can occur. I remember a time when I was so used to the white iPod earbuds. I went into a specialist headphone shop when i lived in Singapore (Singaporeans LOVE headphones bless them)  and they let me listen to some much more expensive IEM's. I hated them!  I really upset the sales person because I preferred my stock earbuds!  Anyway a few weeks later I thought I would give the new IEM's a chance. In time I grew to love them and could not listen to the earbuds no longer!
  
 So moral of the story for me is to never judge any equipment quickly and that what we like has probably been influenced by what we are currently listening to.


----------



## longbowbbs

nicklikesmusic said:


> My 2c is that it is difficult to audition a headphone and come away with a definite judgement about it's sound quality.
> 
> What really got me at first was the speed of the HD800. It seemed like all of my music suddenly appeared to be played faster. I think that there was so much going on spatially, combined with the very fast transient response - it took me some getting used to.
> 
> ...


 
 +1 Nick. We like what we are used to. I love the HD800's in stock form. However, I also have spent years auditioning gear for the rest of the chain. My experience with the HD800's is that they are best as part of an entire system. When well paired they present beautifully.


----------



## Robert777

I was actually rather shocked by how different my HD800s sounded out of my two different amps. No other headphone had changed so noticeably.


----------



## kapanak

robert777 said:


> I was actually rather shocked by how different my HD800s sounded out of my two different amps. No other headphone had changed so noticeably.


 

 It is indeed quite an experience, as no other headphones I have ever heard has changed in its sound so noticeably (not significantly) between different source chains, especially the amps. My guess is that the difference is partially due to the severe impedance curve of the HD800, which goes from 300 Ohms to 700 Ohms throughout the frequency response, and partially due to the fact that the HD800 is just so damn transparent, and you WILL hear the source chain, unlike most other headphones that add their own coloration and sound the same no matter the amp.


----------



## Robert777

kapanak said:


> It is indeed quite an experience, as no other headphones I have ever heard has changed in its sound so noticeably (not significantly) between different source chains, especially the amps. My guess is that the difference is partially due to the severe impedance curve of the HD800, which goes from 300 Ohms to 700 Ohms throughout the frequency response, and partially due to the fact that the HD800 is just so damn transparent, and you WILL hear the source chain, unlike most other headphones that add their own coloration and sound the same no matter the amp.


 

 That makes sense. I agree that the differences are not significant but noticeable. I can see why those with the recourses spend a lot of time building a system around the HD800s. I think I got lucky that I love the sound from my modest Audio-gd amp.
  
 I also discovered recently that I prefer the tone when run on low gain. Maybe the difference in tone is only perceived in my auditory senses, but I enjoy it none the less.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## SearchOfSub

kapanak said:


> It is indeed quite an experience, as no other headphones I have ever heard has changed in its sound so noticeably (not significantly) between different source chains, especially the amps. My guess is that the difference is partially due to the severe impedance curve of the HD800, which goes from 300 Ohms to 700 Ohms throughout the frequency response, and partially due to the fact that the HD800 is just so damn transparent, and you WILL hear the source chain, unlike most other headphones that add their own coloration and sound the same no matter the amp.




edit.


----------



## Zoom25

HDVA 600 vs Taurus mk2 vs BHA-1 for HD 800?


----------



## Taowolf51

Did Bob Katz ever release the exact numbers he used in his parametric EQ? All I've been able to find are the sketched comparison between Harman and the HD800's graph (which helps, but I'd like to try his exact graph).


----------



## grdlow

zoom25 said:


> HDVA 600 vs Taurus mk2 vs BHA-1 for HD 800?


I have both the HDVA600 and BHA1. Both are great with the HD800. HDVA600 is a little smoother. BHA1 is more visceral. HDVA600 a little warmer and rolled off. BHA1 more neutral and extended at both ends. For easy non-fatiguing listening, HDVA600. For a (close to) live experience, BHA1. I can't comment on the Taurus.


----------



## Mortalcoil

zoom25 said:


> HDVA 600 vs Taurus mk2 vs BHA-1 for HD 800?


 

 BHA-1 very detailed yet not overly so (meaning not overly analytical) . 
  
 Drives the 800 very well, and is a great value overall.  Built to last.
  
 The Taurus mk2 has some great feedback also (although I havent heard it) well worth the audition if you can.


----------



## PleasantSounds

zoom25 said:


> HDVA 600 vs Taurus mk2 vs BHA-1 for HD 800?


 
  
 There's a fourth contender that you may consider: the V281. IMO it tops all three on your list, although the Taurus MKII is very very close.


----------



## Destroysall

zoom25 said:


> HDVA 600 vs Taurus mk2 vs BHA-1 for HD 800?


 
 How about the Woo Audio WA22? I'm curious as how the WA22 would compare the ones mentioned above..


----------



## Zoom25

mortalcoil said:


> BHA-1 very detailed yet not overly so (meaning not overly analytical) .
> 
> Drives the 800 very well, and is a great value overall.  Built to last.
> 
> The Taurus mk2 has some great feedback also (although I havent heard it) well worth the audition if you can.


 

 I've tried the BHA-1 in the past with LCD-3 in balanced mode. Are you driving the HD 800 in balanced mode?


----------



## Zoom25

pleasantsounds said:


> There's a fourth contender that you may consider: the V281. IMO it tops all three on your list, although the Taurus MKII is very very close.


 

 Oooh didn't even realize there was a new Vioelectric out. Looks good.


----------



## Zoom25

destroysall said:


> How about the Woo Audio WA22? I'm curious as how the WA22 would compare the ones mentioned above..


 

 I've been tempted by the WA22 many times, but I have no idea what I'm doing with tubes and all the upgrades that will be needed. Same thing for the WA5.


----------



## AlanU

zoom25 said:


> I've been tempted by the WA22 many times, but I have no idea what I'm doing with tubes and all the upgrades that will be needed. Same thing for the WA5.


 
 With any tube component you should just use stock tubes and enjoy. Later down the road read up on what others suggest for tube upgrades.
  
 You will eventually find the sound character your after and totally enjoy your rig.
  
 When solid state is concerned there's little you can do to manipulate the sound.  This is where people EQ to seek the sound they are after.
  
 As a 2 channel guy I think many Hifi folks consider this blasphemous but for headphone guys this is more of an accepted practice.
  
 I've spent a pretty penny in power conditioning in the 2 channel world. Spent an easy $3000+ on cabling and power conditioning that relaxes and allows the music to flow effortlessly. This is something I doubt any EQ will do for my headphone rig. Since this is a hobby you can do anything you like and have fun to enjoy music 
  
 Tubes on the otherhand is a wonderful means of changing and tweaking the sound.  This is where you can really transform the highly detailed "analytical" sound of the Hd800 and make it warmer and much more  analog.


----------



## Mortalcoil

zoom25 said:


> I've tried the BHA-1 in the past with LCD-3 in balanced mode. Are you driving the HD 800 in balanced mode?


 
  
 As a matter of fact I am.
  
 Using a Norne Draug 2 for cable duty fed from the 4 pin...plenty of juice (a'la BHA-1) and a smoother bottom end thanks to the Draug


----------



## koiloco

zoom25 said:


> I've been tempted by the WA22 many times, but I have no idea what I'm doing with tubes and all the upgrades that will be needed. Same thing for the WA5.


 
 Go for it.  I think WA22 hits the sweet spot for $/performance and tube rolling flexibility.  I know.  I am biased.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I still enjoy WA22 with HD800 very much.  I don't foresee upgrading at all.


----------



## Zoom25

alanu said:


> With any tube component you should just use stock tubes and enjoy. Later down the road read up on what others suggest for tube upgrades.
> 
> You will eventually find the sound character your after and totally enjoy your rig.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Software EQ - not really an option. Only my desktop rig runs via computer. My other high end rigs are now all moved away from a computer. Hardware EQ is an option, but a decent one that I like will run me a few grand. Plus, I usually pick components nowadays that are well within the tolerable range and don't need EQ.
  
 Fixing the Power has been on my mind though (Furman, Bryston, PS Audio gear for keeping voltage and current in check) - also a dedicated power line. Not happening anytime soon, but it is in the back of my mind.
  
 While I do like how tubes look and that you can switch them out for different/better sound...it can get expensive. I like SS gear because you know exactly how they'll sound at that one price. I have listened to tubes with speakers, just not with headphones.


----------



## Zoom25

koiloco said:


> Go for it.  I think WA22 hits the sweet spot for $/performance and tube rolling flexibility.  I know.  I am biased.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I was waiting for you to show up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Where'd your HE-500 go?


----------



## Zoom25

mortalcoil said:


> As a matter of fact I am.
> 
> Using a Norne Draug 2 for cable duty fed from the 4 pin...plenty of juice (a'la BHA-1) and a smoother bottom end thanks to the Draug


 

 Have you tried the Sennheiser's balanced cable on the BHA-1?
  
 I suppose the Draug 2 is the better option if both of their prices are around the same?


----------



## koiloco

zoom25 said:


> I was waiting for you to show up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 How have u been? I sold my HE500 long time ago after I bought HD800.  I just have HE-6 and HD800 now.  No more HPs.


----------



## Hedonism

Hey guys and gals, I'd just like to share an experience I had with everyone here for better or for worse.

Today, while I was hanging out with a few friends, I put some classical music on in the background with crappy Bluetooth speakers (JBL Pulse I). To be specific, I put on Tchaikovsky's violin concerto. Here it is (in parts unfortunately) on youtube: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok0IJhFGDpk. 

By the way, this is an excellent recording in both sound quality and actual performance, and surpasses any other version of the piece I've listened to so far. I would highly recommend getting this CD if you're into this kind of stuff. 

Anyway, I want to focus in on a particular moment while listening to the piece on that crappy speaker. It was around 9:30 in the video. You can hear the tempo of the piece rapidly accelerating and overall, things are getting pretty exciting. I can actually feel my heartbeat quickening along with the rising tempo, despite the low quality of the Bluetooth speakers. One of my friends even mentioned that she was getting stressed out (in a good way) while listening to that moment. 

All in all, it felt great to be so into the music. It's been too long since I felt an emotional and almost physical reaction while listening to music. 

So naturally, once I go home I try to reproduce this moment on my own system: Schiit Bifrost Uber into Bryston BHA-1 and (obviously) my HD800s. I queue up the piece in lossless, and I start listening. Great imaging, soundstage, and general fidelity as per usual on a high quality recording with the HD800s.

Anticipation rises as the part I mentioned previously draws near. Finally, it arrives and then... nothing. I don't feel anything. Sure it sounds great and all, but what happened to the quickening pulse and the excitement!? 

At this point, a million questions are swirling in my head. Why should a $100 Bluetooth speaker illicit such an emotional response (which I feel is one of the most important attributes of any audio system) while my $3000+ headphone setup cannot? Is this due to the inherit advantages that speakers have over headphones? Was it just the state of mind I was in previously? Is it due to my amp synergy (I've heard reports that the pairing is flat and not very engaging)? Is it because of the HD800s "clinical" sound signature? Is my DAC bottlenecking my system? And so on and so forth. 

So far, I've found no answers. Just more questions. Should I try modding the headphones? Should I try different amps? How about a new DAC? Would getting different headphones work? Why not just drop the headphone game altogether and move on to speakers? Maybe I'm just not in the mood anymore and should try again another time.

But stubbornly, I try listening to the piece once more. Since I'm frustrated, I decide to critically analyze every single second I listen to. So far so good. I'm thinking things like: "Wow, I can actually hear the reverberation of the violin against the room" and "I'm glad the HD800s are so revealing and transparent or else I wouldn't be able to fully appreciate the extremely rich and vibrant tone that Hilary Hahn produces with her violin. I mean, the violin is seriously singing right now!" I guess I'm not much of an analytical listener, huh.

Soon enough that dreaded moment at 9:30 arrives. And guess what? I'm too lost in the music to care. I do notice that there's still no faster heartbeat or whatever, but at this point I don't mind anymore. I'm enjoying the music goddammit! So what if I didn't get the exact same reaction as when I listened to that part before? 

Instead, I keep on listening and I get close to the end of the first movement. The movement is getting to its climax and and then... could it be... yes! Hallelujah!! There it is. A slight shivering sensation coupled with a triumphant feeling from the music. All is well. My headphone setup is indeed capable of getting an emotional response from me, which again, is the most important aspect of any audio system to me. 

So what's the point of all this? I'm not entirely sure; I felt like it was worth sharing though. Maybe my point is to remind you all to enjoy your music. Maybe it's to let you know that upgrading your system isn't all that important. Maybe there's no point at all. Who knows? Who cares? 

Anyway, sorry for the long rambling post, and thanks for reading! I hope my story helps some of you somehow. 

PS. I'd still like to know how to improve my system despite my epiphany. Its just not bothering me as much anymore. So if you got any suggestions...


----------



## Mortalcoil

zoom25 said:


> Have you tried the Sennheiser's balanced cable on the BHA-1?
> 
> I suppose the Draug 2 is the better option if both of their prices are around the same?


 
  
 Have'nt tried the Senn cable, imagine its decent though.
  
 The BHA-1 really shines in balanced mode although its no slouch in SE either (apparently more current is supplied).  Believe it or not I feel it has a great "synergy" with the TH-900 also even in SE.


----------



## Mortalcoil

hedonism said:


> Hey guys and gals, I'd just like to share an experience I had with everyone here for better or for worse.
> 
> Today, while I was hanging out with a few friends, I put some classical music on in the background with crappy Bluetooth speakers (JBL Pulse I). To be specific, I put on Tchaikovsky's violin concerto. Here it is (in parts unfortunately) on youtube: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok0IJhFGDpk.
> 
> By the way, this is an excellent recording in both sound quality and actual performance, and surpasses any other version of the piece I've listened to so far. I would highly recommend getting this CD if you're into this kind of stuff.


 
  
  
 Well thought out post Hedonism, been in the same situation myself.  You sound as if you need a sound sig switch up.
  
 Simple solution .....audition a TH-900 with the Bryston and report back immediately


----------



## Nicklikesmusic

hedonism said:


> Hey guys and gals, I'd just like to share an experience I had with everyone here for better or for worse.
> 
> Today, while I was hanging out with a few friends, I put some classical music on in the background with crappy Bluetooth speakers (JBL Pulse I). To be specific, I put on Tchaikovsky's violin concerto. Here it is (in parts unfortunately) on youtube: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok0IJhFGDpk.
> 
> ...


 

 Today I listened to some Q Acoustic Concept 20 speakers which were on special at my local hifi store, they blew me away with their realism and I ended up buying them to be delivered in a few days time. When i got home I listened to my HD800 system (same CD) and was also blown away with what I heard but for different reasons. I know that the headphone system is  producing a false soundstage but I can still appreciate it and the strengths of the system is it's ability to coherently produce all frequencies. I also appreciate how the speaker is more accurately reproducing the soundstage and I can overlook it's colouration and poor low frequency response. Today I heard information in the speakers that weren't present in the headphones and vice versa. Our brains mix the headphone right and left channels to form an image. Using speakers the sound from each channel is free to interfere with each other before it even reaches our ears. To cut a long story short and forgetting the physics of sound...most music just isn't designed for headphones. Today I bought some speakers for $AUD 515 which give me a new way to appreciate my music. I appreciate that my HD800 are extremely good at what they do. Both can give a lot of enjoyment and don't buy into that fallacy that if your headphones cost X then equivalent loudspeakers must cost 10 X for the same enjoyment factor.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

@hedonism Are you able to go back to the cheap bluetooth speaker and listen again, to see if you get the 9:30 rush as before?

So much music listening is actually an interplay between the music and the listener, and much of the experience can be based on how the listener is coming to the music at that moment. Further, perhaps there is a fundamental aspect of music that occurs in loudspeaker listening, no matter how poor the loudspeaker, that even the best headphone system misses. Perhaps it is as simple as the musicians staying fixed in position when you turn your head with speakers, while with headphones, they move with you (unless you have a Smythe Realiser!)

Excellent post!


----------



## longbowbbs

hedonism said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hedonism, Sometimes the moment can transcend gear. Just like hearing a particular piece of music can trigger a powerful memory, the exact situation can surpass what is delivering that individual moment. Enjoy the memory of that moment and do not be so concerned about recreating lightning in a bottle.


----------



## icebear

hedonism said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi there, here my best guess :
  
 Our brain is doing a lot of processing with all incoming signals be it optical or acoustic, to compare to previous experience, to recognize and decide. With the "crappy" bluetooth speaker from mp3 file, the brains of the listeners have to work pretty hard, that why your friend mentioned being stressed out. It's not because the music is so exciting but the brain needs to do so much processing. This will give so called listerner fatigue pretty quickly.
  
 When you have a good source and a proper chain the music will be there with all details that transport the excitement of the performance of the musicians and give you goosebumps or make your hairs stand up BUT is will be relaxing and not stress the listener out.


----------



## Hedonism

Oh boy, thanks for all the responses. Didn't think my early morning ramblings would appeal to many.
  
  


icebear said:


> Hi there, here my best guess :
> 
> Our brain is doing a lot of processing with all incoming signals be it optical or acoustic, to compare to previous experience, to recognize and decide. With the "crappy" bluetooth speaker from mp3 file, the brains of the listeners have to work pretty hard, that why your friend mentioned being stressed out. It's not because the music is so exciting but the brain needs to do so much processing. This will give so called listerner fatigue pretty quickly.
> 
> When you have a good source and a proper chain the music will be there with all details that transport the excitement of the performance of the musicians and give you goosebumps or make your hairs stand up BUT is will be relaxing and not stress the listener out.


 
  
 Interesting theory! Do you mean like how Best Buys and what-not will preset their display televisions with super bright and sharp settings to entice the passerby with flashiness, but when you try to purchase the TV and bring it home with those settings, you'll soon find it glaring and painful to watch? I feel like that would depend on the sound signature of the bluetooth speakers, rather than the low-quality source of the music, right? Regardless, I dislike the notion of mp3 files and $100 Bluetooth speakers garnering a more visceral reaction than my "good" set-up, even if it was extremely short-term, if only because I spent so much money on my system! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


longbowbbs said:


> Hedonism, Sometimes the moment can transcend gear. Just like hearing a particular piece of music can trigger a powerful memory, the exact situation can surpass what is delivering that individual moment. Enjoy the memory of that moment and do not be so concerned about recreating lightning in a bottle.


 
  
 Wise words, friend! After some thought, this is the most likely explanation. Trying to force it when I'm not really feeling in the right mood is silly. After all, sometimes I'll be listening intently for hours on end to my music and enjoying every second of it, yet other times, I'll zone out and daydream, and by the time I come to, I'll realize I didn't even know what I was listening to. I'll just have to wait for the next moment. Cheers to that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


ruthieandjohn said:


> @hedonism Are you able to go back to the cheap bluetooth speaker and listen again, to see if you get the 9:30 rush as before?
> 
> So much music listening is actually an interplay between the music and the listener, and much of the experience can be based on how the listener is coming to the music at that moment. Further, perhaps there is a fundamental aspect of music that occurs in loudspeaker listening, no matter how poor the loudspeaker, that even the best headphone system misses. Perhaps it is as simple as the musicians staying fixed in position when you turn your head with speakers, while with headphones, they move with you (unless you have a Smythe Realiser!)
> 
> Excellent post!


 
  
 Thanks! I can, but my bet is that this time, I won't get that rush. Upon further reflecting, my guess is that it's just one of those rare splendid moments that sneak up on you and vanish just as quick. When you're just in the right mood to listen to music. 
  
 I agree with all your points. Especially the point on how the listening is coming to the music at the moment, which I believe is what happened with me there. There are so many variables floating around in regards to the enjoyment of music!
  
 And considering the fact that most music is specifically mastered towards speakers, it's no surprise that even great headphone systems can't effectively reproduce sound on the level that speakers can. However, I hope that didn't play a big factor in what I experienced, especially since the speakers were a) streaming via Bluetooth b) playing at low fidelity c) $100 vs. several thousands. 
  
  


nicklikesmusic said:


> Today I listened to some Q Acoustic Concept 20 speakers which were on special at my local hifi store, they blew me away with their realism and I ended up buying them to be delivered in a few days time. When i got home I listened to my HD800 system (same CD) and was also blown away with what I heard but for different reasons. I know that the headphone system is  producing a false soundstage but I can still appreciate it and the strengths of the system is it's ability to coherently produce all frequencies. I also appreciate how the speaker is more accurately reproducing the soundstage and I can overlook it's colouration and poor low frequency response. Today I heard information in the speakers that weren't present in the headphones and vice versa. Our brains mix the headphone right and left channels to form an image. Using speakers the sound from each channel is free to interfere with each other before it even reaches our ears. To cut a long story short and forgetting the physics of sound...most music just isn't designed for headphones. Today I bought some speakers for $AUD 515 which give me a new way to appreciate my music. I appreciate that my HD800 are extremely good at what they do. Both can give a lot of enjoyment and don't buy into that fallacy that if your headphones cost X then equivalent loudspeakers must cost 10 X for the same enjoyment factor.


 
  
 Thanks for your insight! I definitely intend to get into speakers in the future, it's just not quite viable as of the moment. I wasn't even aware of that fallacy! I was under the impression that even a mediocre speaker set-up will wipe the floor of any TOTL headphone system in overall listening experience, if only for the fact that the vast majority of music is mastered towards speakers, not headphones. And also, properly rendered bass that you can actually feel with your entire body. Guess I have a lot more research to do!
  
  
  
@Mortalcoil Thanks for the suggestion. Sorry I don't know how to quote from two pages simultaneously :S. That could definitely be it. As of now, I don't own any "fun" headphones. That might very well be what I'm missing. As for the TH900 audition, I do happen to live in Toronto as well...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
 Anyway, thanks to everyone for helping me figure this conundrum out. But what I REALLY wanted was a butt-load of enabling comments so that I could justify spending more money on upgrades though!!! Isn't that the spirit of hi-fi?? Oh well, I guess enjoying the music, like I originally said, will suffice...for now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I'm only half-kidding. Someone help me with this addiction.)


----------



## longbowbbs

hedonism said:


> Anyway, thanks to everyone for helping me figure this conundrum out. But what I REALLY wanted was a butt-load of enabling comments so that I could justify spending more money on upgrades though!!! Isn't that the spirit of hi-fi?? Oh well, I guess enjoying the music, like I originally said, will suffice...for now!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 .....Only the new Orpheus 2 will suffice....Go ye and mortgage the house....


----------



## Zoom25

mortalcoil said:


> Have'nt tried the Senn cable, imagine its decent though.
> 
> The BHA-1 really shines in balanced mode although its no slouch in SE either (apparently more current is supplied).  Believe it or not I feel it has a great "synergy" with the TH-900 also even in SE.


 

 Yes I would definitely expect that with the TH-900. My single ended D2000 also sounded really nice with the BHA-1.


----------



## Zoom25

koiloco said:


> How have u been? I sold my HE500 long time ago after I bought HD800.  I just have HE-6 and HD800 now.  No more HPs.


 

 Hey, it's going well, how about you?
  
 Yes, I just remembered you did end up selling the HE-500 around that time. I'm almost done with headphone rig completely. Definitely won't be considering any more headphones, DACs, audio transports...only a final headphone amp to put a nail in the coffin. After that going to focus on upgrading my main monitors.
  
 BTW are you running stock tubes on your WA22 or upgraded?


----------



## Taowolf51

zoom25 said:


> Software EQ - not really an option. Only my desktop rig runs via computer. My other high end rigs are now all moved away from a computer. Hardware EQ is an option, but a decent one that I like will run me a few grand. Plus, I usually pick components nowadays that are well within the tolerable range and don't need EQ.


 
  
 Perhaps the MiniDSP? $100, and offers software EQ away from the computer. Might be something worth playing around with.
  
 May not be up to your standards, but could be a cool toy to see if you find it worth going with something more high end.


----------



## koiloco

zoom25 said:


> Hey, it's going well, how about you?
> 
> Yes, I just remembered you did end up selling the HE-500 around that time. I'm almost done with headphone rig completely. Definitely won't be considering any more headphones, DACs, audio transports...only a final headphone amp to put a nail in the coffin. After that going to focus on upgrading my main monitors.
> 
> BTW are you running stock tubes on your WA22 or upgraded?


 
  
 I am doing great.  My WA22 has upgraded tubes.  Nothing super fancy, just Kenrad 6SN7, Tungsol 5998.  I've tried other combo but for some reasons, I prefer these for the genres to which I listen.


----------



## shultzee

@  Hedonism     After spending the last couple of years going down the rabbit hole on headphone gear I recently picked up a very good pair of monitors   (Wharfdale Jade 3)  .   Totally different experience than my headphone rig.   I thoroughly enjoy going back and forth between the Wharfdales and my HD800.    Both are excellent and yet very different in their presentation.


----------



## MrMan

Does anyone know the max mW or W handling of hd800 @ 300ohm ?
  
 I ask this because I listened to the hd800 on a powerhouse of a system and they sounded amazing. I ideally want to get an amp that will produce that amount of power without ruining the headphones.


----------



## Mr Rick

mrman said:


> Does anyone know the max mW or W handling of hd800 @ 300ohm ?
> 
> I ask this because I listened to the hd800 on a powerhouse of a system and they sounded amazing. I ideally want to get an amp that will produce that amount of power without ruining the headphones.


 
 This site claims 500mW.
  
 http://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/sennheiser/hd800.htm#spex


----------



## bearFNF

mrman said:


> Does anyone know the max mW or W handling of hd800 @ 300ohm ?
> 
> I ask this because I listened to the hd800 on a powerhouse of a system and they sounded amazing. I ideally want to get an amp that will produce that amount of power without ruining the headphones.


 

 From the manual (page 10):


----------



## MrMan

What is the EN 60-268-7 part ? Most headphones I've seen rate it per their ohm rating. Ex 500mw @ 300 ohms.


----------



## bearFNF

mrman said:


> What is the EN 60-268-7 part ? Most headphones I've seen rate it per their ohm rating. Ex 500mw @ 300 ohms.


 

 it is a European Standard, they are not for general distribution and must be purchased.
 The title of the latest version I could find is BS EN 60268-7:2011 "Sound system equipment. Headphones and earphones"
  
  
 Basically it tells manufacturers what to include in its specifications and methods of measurement. It also provides means to classify the different products.
  
 You can google it and read more or go buy the specification for the whole thing.


----------



## Mortalcoil

> @Mortalcoil Thanks for the suggestion. Sorry I don't know how to quote from two pages simultaneously :S. That could definitely be it. As of now, I don't own any "fun" headphones. That might very well be what I'm missing. As for the TH900 audition, I do happen to live in Toronto as well...


 
  
 Dont get any ideas .......lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seriously though if you want to audition them try  http://www.headfoneshop.com/
  
 You may know the shop already, small and crammed but he has the 900 usually in stock and for demo.


----------



## drez

hedonism said:


> Hey guys and gals, I'd just like to share an experience I had with everyone here for better or for worse.
> 
> Today, while I was hanging out with a few friends, I put some classical music on in the background with crappy Bluetooth speakers (JBL Pulse I). To be specific, I put on Tchaikovsky's violin concerto. Here it is (in parts unfortunately) on youtube: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok0IJhFGDpk.
> 
> ...




I can relate to this, I think the cause is that when the brain is deprived of all the detail provided by HD 800 it focuses on something else, the tone and tempo. I have encountered this before. Sometimes a component will omit a lot of information (eg in treble) and you will say "hang on now the mids are more pure and clear, timing is better" but in reality there is just less other information so u focus on the mids, tone etc. I think they say "not seeing the forest from the trees"


----------



## johnjen

hedonism said:


> Hey guys and gals, I'd just like to share an experience I had with everyone here for better or for worse.
> 
> Today, while I was hanging out with a few friends, I put some classical music on in the background with crappy Bluetooth speakers (JBL Pulse I). To be specific, I put on Tchaikovsky's violin concerto. Here it is (in parts unfortunately) on youtube: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok0IJhFGDpk.
> 
> ...




This kind of experience can be illusive and situationally dependent upon the specific circumstances.
And in some cases can't be duplicated, even with the same gear.

However to address your final question "I'd still like to know how to improve my system…"
The one recent development that might just take you one 'mother may I step up' closer to this degree of emotional involvement is to implement 'proper' EQ for your 800's.

This is a topic that has been simmering in the background for a while now with a recent upsurge in popularity and with significant results.

There are a bunch of ways to achieve this and it does take a system that can accommodate a DSP function in the digital domain well before the DAC.

The easiest implementation I have found is to use the Sonarworks DSP plug in in a suitable 'player'.
I use JRiver Media Center on my Mac and fuss with the settings inside the DSP a bit to dial it in to my satisfaction.
There are of course other parametric EQ plug in's available which can be setup to achieve the same EQ settings.
They do take an added degree of knowing what you are doing in order to 'shape' the EQ response curve to match the 800's.

What I have found is that with 'proper' EQ the 800's will be oh so much more captivating and listening will become what I call IMPERATIVE.
And lately, I came up with a new audiophool word, SuperGlue. 
It means my 800's are stuck on my head and I find it VERY difficult to take them off. 

This tweak is aimed squarely at improving the emotional reactivity quotient.
Which is a desirable goal, at least for me anyways.

And lastly, there are additional 'supportive' types and amounts of EQ that can be used with the Sonarworks (or any other implementation) to achieve truly spectacular results.
Some are experiencing this level of IMPERATIVE and are quite impressed.

JJ


----------



## Oregonian

mrman said:


> Does anyone know the max mW or W handling of hd800 @ 300ohm ?
> 
> I ask this because I listened to the hd800 on a powerhouse of a system and they sounded amazing. I ideally want to get an amp that will produce that amount of power without ruining the headphones.


 

 Not sure how much was feeding my HD800, but I run them out of a vintage Pioneer Spec 2 amp (250 wpc) and as loud as you can stand they sound amazing with bass that dispels all notion that these are bass-light headphones.  Note that this is not out of the speaker taps - it's direct from the headphone jack.


----------



## tehsprayer

I'm getting the HD 800 as a gift for Christmas and currently own the Schiit Modi and Objective2 Amplifier. Would these headphones sound significantly better with something like the Schiit Valhalla 2? I love the aesthetics of the Schiit audio equipment, I bought a used Lyr a while ago and ran into problems where tubes would start to hiss after a couple weeks of use and got pretty annoying. So I'm a little afraid of going back to tube amplifiers although I did buy that amp used. I am almost certain i'll stick with the Modi forever unless it actually makes a difference going to a more expensive dac, it almost seems like placebo effect past the Modi.
  
 I'm also thinking of adding the anax mod to the headphones, the 2.0 which includes the cutout of a circle and a trapezoid of creatology foam and then adding a cutout of rug liner on top of that. 
  
  
 TL;DR - Would upgrading to the Valhalla 2 (possibly used) be worth the transition from the O2? The O2 is pretty transparent from what I've heard. Worth paying over $500 CAD for the upgrade? Also have the Modi which is a great little dac, worth changing that too? Or should I worry about that later on?
  
  
 Thanks guys!


----------



## Mr Rick

tehsprayer said:


> I'm getting the HD 800 as a gift for Christmas and currently own the Schiit Modi and Objective2 Amplifier. Would these headphones sound significantly better with something like the Schiit Valhalla 2? I love the aesthetics of the Schiit audio equipment, I bought a used Lyr a while ago and ran into problems where tubes would start to hiss after a couple weeks of use and got pretty annoying. So I'm a little afraid of going back to tube amplifiers although I did buy that amp used. I am almost certain i'll stick with the Modi forever unless it actually makes a difference going to a more expensive dac, it almost seems like placebo effect past the Modi.
> 
> I'm also thinking of adding the anax mod to the headphones, the 2.0 which includes the cutout of a circle and a trapezoid of creatology foam and then adding a cutout of rug liner on top of that.
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry, misread your post. I really shouldn't comment as I have no experience with the O2.


----------



## raybone0566

tehsprayer said:


> I'm getting the HD 800 as a gift for Christmas and currently own the Schiit Modi and Objective2 Amplifier. Would these headphones sound significantly better with something like the Schiit Valhalla 2? I love the aesthetics of the Schiit audio equipment, I bought a used Lyr a while ago and ran into problems where tubes would start to hiss after a couple weeks of use and got pretty annoying. So I'm a little afraid of going back to tube amplifiers although I did buy that amp used. I am almost certain i'll stick with the Modi forever unless it actually makes a difference going to a more expensive dac, it almost seems like placebo effect past the Modi.
> 
> I'm also thinking of adding the anax mod to the headphones, the 2.0 which includes the cutout of a circle and a trapezoid of creatology foam and then adding a cutout of rug liner on top of that.
> 
> ...


I just upgraded my source from the modi to bitfrost multibit and the improvements were enormous. It was very noticeable on every headphone I own. Vahalai2 is a very good match with hd800. I've had mine for a bit & there's no problems.


----------



## AlanU

tehsprayer said:


> I'm getting the HD 800 as a gift for Christmas and currently own the Schiit Modi and Objective2 Amplifier. Would these headphones sound significantly better with something like the Schiit Valhalla 2? I love the aesthetics of the Schiit audio equipment, I bought a used Lyr a while ago and ran into problems where tubes would start to hiss after a couple weeks of use and got pretty annoying. So I'm a little afraid of going back to tube amplifiers although I did buy that amp used. I am almost certain i'll stick with the Modi forever unless it actually makes a difference going to a more expensive dac, it almost seems like placebo effect past the Modi.
> 
> I'm also thinking of adding the anax mod to the headphones, the 2.0 which includes the cutout of a circle and a trapezoid of creatology foam and then adding a cutout of rug liner on top of that.
> 
> ...


 
 There will always be an improvement when you change DAC's and Amps. 
  
 What you will find is the 02 is very transparent and other amps can provide more finesse. 
  
 I've compared my 02 amp against my Burson Virtuoso. When the Burson had little burn in time it presented music very similar to the 02 amp. As I allowed the brand new Burson to run for several hours the sound changed. The Burson presented the music "more" effortlessly and more refined than the 02. 
  
 Not saying the Burson is a superior beast....far from. However my point is that there is always room to increase SQ. In the audio world the Headphone world is still reasonably inexpensive compared to 2 channel hifi. 
  
 The HD800 is a great set of headphones. If you want lush warm mids with organic feel the HD800 is not going to deliver this as well as other cans.


----------



## blacknile

alanu said:


> The HD800 is a great set of headphones. If you want lush warm mids with organic feel the HD800 is not going to deliver this as well as other cans.


 
  
 Hmm this is not the case in my experience. Based on my recently acquired HD800 (late 40K S/N) powered by a Violectric V200, the mids are extremely lush and organic, provided they are actually present and well captured in the original recording. I find these HD800 to be extremely revealing, which means they will "reveal" organic lush mids of a well recorded Brahms quartet, for example; but they will also "reveal" poorly recorded music.
  
 If on the other hand we are interested in a pair of rose-tinted spectacles, then I find the HD800 are not the right tool. If this is the case, one might as well buy a pair of Sennheiser PX100, which will make even the remixed edition of Raw Power by the Stooges have lovely lush warm mids


----------



## AlanU

blacknile said:


> Hmm this is not the case in my experience. Based on my recently acquired HD800 (late 40K S/N) powered by a Violectric V200, the mids are extremely lush and organic, provided they are actually present and well captured in the original recording. I find these HD800 to be extremely revealing, which means they will "reveal" organic lush mids of a well recorded Brahms quartet, for example; but they will also "reveal" poorly recorded music.
> 
> If on the other hand we are interested in a pair of rose-tinted spectacles, then I find the HD800 are not the right tool. If this is the case, one might as well buy a pair of Sennheiser PX100, which will make even the remixed edition of Raw Power by the Stooges have lovely lush warm mids


 
 I guess this is the beauty of the headphone world. We have full control of our environment and can swap speakers in a matter of seconds 
  
 Yes the HD800 is extremely transparent so the Source and Amplification can do wonders in the sound you'd get from the headphones. I think regardless how we can try to dumb down the extreme dynamics of these headphones they can still present a ferrari/lamborhini fast performance while some other flagship headphones performs like a refined  Bentley. This is the type of explanation I got for my 2 channel hifi world when I spoke to the founder of Totem acoustics. My $8000 Totem Earth speakers are similarly price to the other high end Totem Wind speaker. Vince Bruzzese described my Earth's as a Lamborhini. I tame my Lamborhini with tubes  This slightly changes the natural behaviour my Totem Earth's have. I can make them into an intense beast with a solid state dac or relax an roll off the edge with tubes. However my Totems will never be Harbeth speakers with the most incredible sweet mids.........
  
 Now back to the headphone world..... 
  
 The HD800 will always be a "fast" dynamic speaker and can be manipulated to slow down if the source/amplification throws its "coloured" characteristic at it. This is where the HD800 can almost be a "universal" headphone. I'm in the process of either having a solid state and tube dac setup for my Burson Virtuoso. This way I can use tubes for more lush organic mids and use the solid state dac as a micro detail, fast setup for different genre of music. Another option I'm considering is to buy a woo audio tube amp (still undetermined) to sweeten the Hd800. 
  
 Same analogy is to tame an AKG 701 with tubes. You can change the sound signature with different source/amplification as long as it has a warm characteristics. However at the end of the day the speaker will always have the "built in" house sound it was designed to sound like. 
  
 The quality of the recording does make a difference. But one thing I do find is that you can use that same exact recording with a tube dac and it will sound different to a solid state dac. I can have great emotional content using my tube dac and use a Concero HD and change it to a dynamic micro detailed analytical music session. All of this just by swapping DAC's. All of this using a set of HD650's!! and not even using the HD800.
  
 The end of the chain (our headphones) makes a big difference but the synergy of the components in the beginning of the chain has alot of weight as well when it comes to the total SQ of the headphone rig. 
  
 Your Violectric V200 with a typical $500-1500+ Esabre dac will sound different if you compare it to a burr brown chipset or a tube dac. All of this is without even discussing the end "speaker". 
  
 As technology gets more advanced it's nice to see speakers/headphones improving in incremental steps.  The HD800 is my comfort HP and as long as it's tamed with tubes I do enjoy them. However I know there's others that can excel in certain genres over the Hd800.


----------



## tehsprayer

Curious if anyone has experienced both the Valhalla and Valhalla 2 with the HD 800. Thinking of buying a used pair and I could probably get Valhalla down for around 210 USD or a Valhalla 2 for around 300 USD. But since the Canadian dollar is so bad right now, was wondering if it is worth the jump to the 2.
  
 I heard the second version is more solid state like and less tubey sounding. But that's all I know.
  
 Also would be running with the Modi as the source.


----------



## AlanU

tehsprayer said:


> Curious if anyone has experienced both the Valhalla and Valhalla 2 with the HD 800. Thinking of buying a used pair and I could probably get Valhalla down for around 210 USD or a Valhalla 2 for around 300 USD. But since the Canadian dollar is so bad right now, was wondering if it is worth the jump to the 2.
> 
> I heard the second version is more solid state like and less tubey sounding. But that's all I know.
> 
> Also would be running with the Modi as the source.


 
 I'd stick with your 02 amp and look into changing your dac. 
  
 Your current setup and just buying a pair of HD650 the music will sound totally different. Changing the "speakers" will make the most drastic change in SQ.
  
 You may find buying even buying a used Musical Paradise MP-D1 24Bit USB Asynchronous Digital-to-Analog Converter (DAC) would transform a more drastic musical change to the HD800 vs buying a Valhalla.
  
 Many ways to skin a cat. As far as amps go I'd say there's a definite change in SQ. However there are alot of things in the chain of events so you can manipulate other things to get the sound your after.


----------



## eliben85

Hi all, I am thinking about selling my HD800 as I barely ever use them for the past year. What would be the value of the phones second hand? 
 Thanks in advance for replying


----------



## kvn864

I just bought a pair, didnt see your post, you should get 800-1000 for great condition


----------



## yates7592

If anybody wants to offload their Norne Draug 2 cable with 3-pin XLR's please PM me, thanks!


----------



## jibzilla

alanu said:


> I'd stick with your 02 amp and look into changing your dac.
> 
> Your current setup and just buying a pair of HD650 the music will sound totally different. Changing the "speakers" will make the most drastic change in SQ.
> 
> ...


 
  
 For the hd800 I would say the amp makes the biggest difference. At his budget bottlehead is the way to go. You really need a totl chain for the hd800 though and the hd600 and 650 scale incredibly well. Just me but I would take a 650 and Mainline over a 800 and Crack. That way when you save up enough for a totl source you won't have to sell the amp. Crack/hd800 is good but after you hear a hd800 and Mainline, DSHA-2, Stratus, Teton etc. the Crack will be quickly sold.


----------



## Swolern

I have the HDVD 800 incoming and looking to pick up a balanced cable for the hd800 pairing. Are there any advantages of the CH800S vs other 3rd party balanced cables?


----------



## kapanak

swolern said:


> I have the HDVD 800 incoming and looking to pick up a balanced cable for the hd800 pairing. Are there any advantages of the CH800S vs other 3rd party balanced cables?


 

 Other than believing in magic, no, none at all. In fact, I'd go as far as say the XLR connector on the CH800S is superior to all other offerings. HOWEVER, I would wait a month to buy as the HD800S start to ship, since right now you'd have to pay $300 or more for the official cable, but soon, you can probably pick up an unused one from another seller here for $100-$150


----------



## lovethatsound

swolern said:


> I have the HDVD 800 incoming and looking to pick up a balanced cable for the hd800 pairing. Are there any advantages of the CH800S vs other 3rd party balanced cables?







kapanak said:


> Other than believing in magic, no, none at all. In fact, I'd go as far as say the XLR connector on the CH800S is superior to all other offerings. HOWEVER, I would wait a month to buy as the HD800S start to ship, since right now you'd have to pay $300 or more for the official cable, but soon, you can probably pick up an unused one from another seller here for $100-$150


I've had the ch800s balance cable since it came out,and it's a great cable,but a while ago i demoed some cardas clear cable and decided to buy some.Now look i to thought all this talk about cables making a magical difference was rubbish,snake oil,BUT the truth is these 2 cables do sound different,they present music,sound stage in different ways.I now use the cardas clear all the time now,but it isn't cheap.so it depends on how much money you want to spend.


----------



## AlanU

jibzilla said:


> For the hd800 I would say the amp makes the biggest difference. At his budget bottlehead is the way to go. You really need a totl chain for the hd800 though and the hd600 and 650 scale incredibly well. Just me but I would take a 650 and Mainline over a 800 and Crack. That way when you save up enough for a totl source you won't have to sell the amp. Crack/hd800 is good but after you hear a hd800 and Mainline, DSHA-2, Stratus, Teton etc. the Crack will be quickly sold.


 
 The amplification choices are huge!!!!
  
 In many cases the SQ of the entire headphone rig starts from clean AC  power, source then moves along to the headphones.
  
 I do find that the source is extremely important.  Having a "OK" DAC with an upgraded headphone amp still requires the details to amplify. If the source is lacking the amp will not make up for the lack of foundation of music. 
  
 The thing about tube amps is that it's the playground for tweaking and achieving greater longer note decay in the music. There is so many ways to manipulate the sound of music.
  
 Whats so interesting about this world of headphones is that some may spend a pretty penny on a Chord Mojo and feel they've found audio nirvana. Another person would buy a wooden box with a mess of wires in the Bottlehead Crack and also feel they've found musical bliss. 
  
 When I purchased a external tube rectifier setup (power supply) for my tube dac it was like I bought a new amplifier (when i use this setup for either my headphones or 2 channel)  and DAC. This is where I find many tube amplifiers using a small tiny 5u4g (being sarcastic  since it's a decent medium sized tube) compared to my power supply that uses 300B's or  274b(many other tubes) and both 6v and 12V vacuum tubes. I'm currently using vintage 1616 tubes.  Infact this dac setup with external power supply prevented me from buying a new amplifier for my 2 channel.
  
 So many ways to play in the audio world. When I swapped different DAC's with my modest 02 amplifier that alone was a major change. However nice thing about DAC's is that once your happy it will very likely perform nice with most headphone amps out there .....total assumption of course


----------



## Zoom25

koiloco said:


> I am doing great.  My WA22 has upgraded tubes.  Nothing super fancy, just* Kenrad 6SN7, Tungsol 5998*.  I've tried other combo but for some reasons, I prefer these for the genres to which I listen.


 

 For fun last night I decided to bring out my Marantz PM6004 to try it with the HD 800. This was the first time I've done it since the Emotiva and planars days. Unfortunately, I didn't have my speaker tap adapters, so I just used the built in headphone out. The headphone out and the speaker taps share similar sound signature, so it wasn't a big deal. Even though the transparency, blackground, and detail retrieval was not at the same level, it was actually still really fun to listen to.
  
 The Marantz has warm mids and thickens the bass. The overall speed decreases as well by a bit. But despite being technically bad, it was actually involving. It's this kind of experience that always keeps tubes on my mind. LOL I still have no idea what those tubes mean and drive/power/rectifier stuff. Glad you found a setup that's still working for you. BTW what was the pre-amp you were talking about in the past? Was it a tube pre-amp?


----------



## blacknile

On another forum people are suggesting that without  balanced signal chain only 30%-50% of the HD800 potential is reached. Do people on here agree with this figure? It is rather higher than I expected I have to say.


----------



## Swolern

Only 30-50%! Wow! I need to hurry up with my balanced setup!! I need to find this out for myself.


----------



## elvergun

blacknile said:


> On another forum people are suggesting that without  balanced signal chain only 30%-50% of the HD800 potential is reached. Do people on here agree with this figure? It is rather higher than I expected I have to say.


 
  
  
 Nope.


----------



## Dadracer

Not from my experience either. I'd say balanced operation gives an added 10% or even less to the HD 800 performance.


----------



## Swolern

dadracer said:


> Not from my experience either. I'd say balanced operation gives an added 10% or even less to the HD 800 performance.


Well in the grand scheme of diminished returns 10% is still fairly large IMO.


----------



## elvergun

swolern said:


> Well in the grand scheme of diminished returns 10% is still fairly large IMO.


 
  
 He did say 10% *or even less.  *I would put it at less than 5% with my equipment.


----------



## shultzee

dadracer said:


> Not from my experience either. I'd say balanced operation gives an added 10% or even less to the HD 800 performance.


 

 I agree with Dadracer.   I have run my 800's both ways and 10% seams about right.   However, that last 10% is pretty dang good.


----------



## Dadracer

I'm not complaining by the way.


----------



## Swolern

elvergun said:


> * He did say 10% or even less. * I would put it at less than 5% with my equipment.


I read what he said. All depends if you look at the glass half empty or half full.


----------



## joshk4

For me I couldn't tell a difference. So if I had to blind test, I would be guessing (if volume matched).


----------



## porridgecup

I own the Audeze LCD-2.2 (pre-Fazor) and HD 800. I love them both, but for different kinds of songs. I'm a big bass fan, so the HD 800 wasn't satisfactory for certain kinds of electronic music. But recently I've been trying to get the best of both worlds.
  
 I've been playing around with equalizing the HD 800, using a software parametric equalizer. After raising the lows and lowering the highs a bit, and a lot of tweaking, I've finally got it sounding like a better LCD-2 with more dynamic range and richer/more enjoyable vocals, but roughly the same bass as the LCD-2. The bass impact is not quite as amazing as the LCD-2 (and I don't think that could ever be replicated on a non-planar magnetic), but the quality, tightness, and quantity of the bass are all pretty much the same, and the impact is still great.
  
 I know many people recommend modding the 800 to reduce some of the highs a bit, but I'm wondering if I'm missing out on anything by not doing that and just sticking to my EQ? I'd be interested in modding it, but 1) I'm very clumsy and would likely damage or destroy the headphones in the process, and 2) wouldn't want to do anything irreversible. So I'd like to avoid it unless I'm seriously missing out on some low range improvements by not doing so.
  
 If it matters, I'm using a Gungnir Multibit DAC and Bryston BHA-1 amp. Balanced aftermarket cables.


----------



## TMRaven

Acoustically modding the HD800 helps get rid of the 6khz resonance, EQ only affects the frequency response, with the resonances still being there.
  
 When EQ'd the mid-bass of my HD800 had greater impact than any Audeuze I've tried.  Planar magnetics aren't known for their energetic impact IMO, but their control of the bass is unmatched.


----------



## tehsprayer

Can anyone assist me on deciding between a used Valhalla 2 or used Burson Soloist SL?
  
 This would be an upgrade from the O2, and my source is the schiit modi.


----------



## johnjen

tmraven said:


> Acoustically modding the HD800 helps get rid of the 6khz resonance, EQ only affects the frequency response, with the resonances still being there.
> 
> When EQ'd the mid-bass of my HD800 had greater impact than any Audeuze I've tried.  Planar magnetics aren't known for their energetic impact IMO, but their control of the bass is unmatched.


In my experience planar's don't have "unmatched bass control".
Planar's can have impact but they tend to sound like a whump or thud instead of an actual musical note.
IOW they lack resolution and the intonation that 800's can provide.

When dialed in, the resolution, extension, and impact of 800's will better the planar's in all of these respects.
Granted it does take some fussing but the end results are sublime.
I use the Sonarworks EQ along with several other tweaks that provide a very satisfying musical experience from well below 20Hz all the way up.

And 800's can provide detail, power and impact down low (and lower into the sub-sonic region) to the extent that it can rattle my head and vibrate my chest, or is that vibrate my head and rattle my chest…
Either way, the results are better than any other headphone I've heard, and by a wide margin.

Exciting Times in Audio Indeed!

JJ
ps. my latest experiments in dealing with the resonances 'issues' has been quite beneficial.
I hope to get some measurements made to reveal just how effective they truly are.
And then get a custom compensation curve to use to bring the FR to near flat.


----------



## Currawong

blacknile said:


> On another forum people are suggesting that without  balanced signal chain only 30%-50% of the HD800 potential is reached. Do people on here agree with this figure? It is rather higher than I expected I have to say.


 
  
 The whole balanced amp thing is completely misunderstood by many people. To take a step back, there are a number of different common amplifier topologies used, ranging from OTL tube amps, transformer-coupled, hybrid amps and various solid state designs. One of the design choices a manufacturer has is to make a design using 4 amp stages in a differential configuration instead of two. That is: Instead of just a left and right amplifier stage, the signal returns also have an amplifier stages. Since the signal return on a regular amp is also the common ground, a balanced or differential design requires a connection with separate pins for the signal returns, and thus a re-cable or alternative cable for the headphones.
  
 So the reason balanced amps get a lot of attention is that they have double the amplification and require a different connection. They also get attention because they seem to sound better than the single-ended connection _out of the same amp_. That gets confused as the idea of them sounding better than single-ended amps in general, when there are plenty of equally powerful and capable single-ended designs out there that are just as capable.
  
 If you're buying a balanced amp for the HD800s or any other headphones, it is best to use it in its intended balanced configuration, at least for the headphones, if not the input as well. 
  


tehsprayer said:


> Can anyone assist me on deciding between a used Valhalla 2 or used Burson Soloist SL?
> 
> This would be an upgrade from the O2, and my source is the schiit modi.


 

 If the Valhalla 2 is cheaper, I'd get that IMO, if you're only going to use it with HD800s and high-impedance cans.


----------



## porridgecup

tmraven said:


> Acoustically modding the HD800 helps get rid of the 6khz resonance, EQ only affects the frequency response, with the resonances still being there.
> 
> When EQ'd the mid-bass of my HD800 had greater impact than any Audeuze I've tried.  Planar magnetics aren't known for their energetic impact IMO, but their control of the bass is unmatched.


 
  
  


johnjen said:


> In my experience planar's don't have "unmatched bass control".
> Planar's can have impact but they tend to sound like a whump or thud instead of an actual musical note.
> IOW they lack resolution and the intonation that 800's can provide.


 
  
 The subjective feeling of impact for me, I think, may also partly be a result of the tight seal the LCD-2 creates around my head when I fit it properly. Impact may not be the right word here; it's just a more "close" bass, I guess? I'm not well-versed in audio science, I just know the LCD-2 gives a booming bass experience that has a different quality from the HD 800's. And I'd argue the LCD-2's bass doesn't feel like a "thud"; both headphones have very tight and controlled bass notes with my gear, in my opinion. The HD 800 is just better for all other parts of the spectrum.
  
 The HD 800 still has excellent bass, don't get me wrong. I was actually quite surprised at how intense the HD 800's bass can be when equalized. Throw in the advantages HD 800 gives in all other areas, and it's my preference now.
  
 I suppose my question is how much I should research modding and if it's worth sending to someone to mod it for me. Jazz's response here interestingly seems to say that given hypothetical perfect EQ, modding isn't necessary. Is this practically achievable?
  


jazz said:


> I agree with you on the approach to eliminate the cause of resonances and reflections instead of fixing the result. But it's not possible to completely eliminate the HD 800's inner reflections, there's simply not enough room for corresponding damping measures. Fortunately those that are possible have a greater audible effect than the measurings would suggest. But to perfection the sound you can't renounce electrical equalizing, and if done in the digital domain it should have none of the side effects of the hardware counterparts.
> 
> Ringing is indeed possible with increased frequency bands, especially narrow bandwidths. But keep in mind that all phase distortions from the equalizer theoretically will compensate for the phase distortions produced by the headphone – since every ripple and dip in the amplitude reponse comes with a corresponding phase distortion, so equalizing them theoretically restores a flat phase response as well. Theoretically – because it's not possible to perfectly and exactly equalize the amplitude response of a sound transducer with all its erratic irregularities. After all the ringing produced by an increased frequency band has a beneficial effect in that it erases the «negative» ringing produced by a corresponding dip if the latter and the compensation curve are perfectly congruent.


----------



## Pokemonn

Hello let me ask a question.
 i know this question is better for speaker thread. but there is good kind HD800 users who own loudspeaker also in this thread.
 I have been searching loudspeaker setup which has same SQ with well driven HD800.
 Is there any good loudspeaker setup outthere for cheap budget? Sould i try  new B&W 800 series?
 I did bought KEF LS50 pair as jude's recommend at head-fi buying guide of speaker section.
 KEF LS50 sound great! They did blown me away. but HD800s little bit sounds better.
 but my modded and EQed and well amped HD800s sound better than KEF LS50! I don't know why?
 Do you know the reasons? whats wrong with my choice of gear? Please teach me.
  
 here is my headphone/loudspeaker setup
  
 headphone: cheap Marantz CD6005 optical out > SRC2496 >DEQ2496(digital EQer) > some DACs(i change sometimes) > Luxman P-700u > modded HD800 (sounds heaven!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
 loudspeaker: Marantz SA11S3 > Marantz PM6005(is this amp too cheap??should i try expensive one?) > KEF LS50
  
 Thank you!(sorry for my bad english! I live in Tokyo)


----------



## DavidA

pokemonn said:


> Hello let me ask a question.
> i know this question is better for speaker thread. but there is good kind HD800 users who own loudspeaker also in this thread.
> I have been searching loudspeaker setup which has same SQ with well driven HD800.
> Is there any good loudspeaker setup outthere for cheap budget? Sould i try  new B&W 800 series?
> ...


 
 For me the speakers that I think sound close to the HD-800 are my Magnepan 1.6 for the living room and Rauna TYRs for my lanai, see my profile for the rest of the system.


----------



## Pokemonn

davida said:


> For me the speakers that I think sound close to the HD-800 are my Magnepan 1.6 for the living room and Rauna TYRs for my lanai, see my profile for the rest of the system.


 

 Thank you very much David for your advice!!! i can buy Magnepan. I will audition them. Thank you.


----------



## AlanU

pokemonn said:


> Hello let me ask a question.
> i know this question is better for speaker thread. but there is good kind HD800 users who own loudspeaker also in this thread.
> I have been searching loudspeaker setup which has same SQ with well driven HD800.
> Is there any good loudspeaker setup outthere for cheap budget? Sould i try  new B&W 800 series?
> ...


 
 I'm quite familiar with the Kef line.
  
 There are many factors involved in speakers. Your HD800 has a preset sound stage built in the small area between your ears and the driver/speaker in the headphones.
  
 The LS50 is a very revealing driver. You must also note that for hifi 2 channel world everything comes into play. From the clean AC power from a power conditioner, source, preamp (if applicable), amp (or integrated), interconnect cables and speaker wires (proper AWG thickness of wires or my preference if using snake oil high performance cables). Room acoustics also plays a major role in the SQ.
  
 I own a set of R100 instead of the LS50 not because of lower cost but i find the R100's more musical, smoother and a tad more laid back. I was using the R100's for my computer desk!!  The LS50 is more of a "monitor" to reveal source so if your recordings are bad those speakers are NOT forgiving. 
  
 IMO the average headphone world is still far more cheaper than 2 channel hifi.  In a sense headphone fanatics do not spend much money on power conditioning, cabling  or anti vibration devices. This is where many 2 channel folks can easily spend $1000 to 6000++ dollars just on power cords and power conditioning. This is almost unheard of in the headphone world. 
  
 The Kef LS50 is a high resolution set of speakers but in many cases I think it's a great speaker for the price and I think it's been a big hype as well. If your speakers are new  you need to break them in because they are still "tight" As you put hours on them they will relax a tad. 
  
 If you were running a higher end tube dac or tube amp for the Kef's this would very likely kill the HD800 depending on the size of your room. 
  
 My 2 channel setup is by far a deep true emotional trip as I listen to it.  The sound you get with "more air" between your speaker and ears gives you a much different feel where room ambiance puts you in "lounge" or physical feel of being in the recording studio. 
  
 The cost of my entire headphone rig is easily over what  I've spent on power conditioning for my 2 channel. The hifiman HE1000, HD800, LCD3 still clamps on your head and regardless of comfort it still feels unnatural to me. I know many individuals have certain reasons to use headphones instead of speakers.
  
 If you heard a properly setup set of LS50's you'd be impressed with the imaging and bass response from a small speaker. Some folks use a musical sub woofer to add lower frequencies. 
  
 2 channel world seems more involved compared to the headphone world.


----------



## DavidA

pokemonn said:


> Thank you very much David for your advice!!! i can buy Magnepan. I will audition them. Thank you.


 
 Just remember with Magnepan speakers the placement and room acoustics make a large difference in what they sound like.  As my ex-wife used to say they are not "wife friendly" due to speaker placement requirements.


----------



## shabta

pokemonn said:


> Thank you very much David for your advice!!! i can buy Magnepan. I will audition them. Thank you.


 
 I am pretty sure that your amp won't be beefy enough for Magnepan's...


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

Any Belgians, Dutch or (northern) French here that could advise me on buying materials for anaxilus modding of my HD800? (What foam or felt? Where to buy it?) Anyone experienced in this or willing to try it out as well? Thx!


----------



## Oregonian

Can someone clarify something for me please? 
  
 Are there two diameters of HD800 plugs (the part that goes into the ear cup?  I have a pair of ENIGMAcoustics Dharma headphones that use the same plugs in the ear cups as the HD800...........but the Norne Audio Vanquish cable I use for my HD800 will not fit in the Dharma due to outside diameter of the plug being a few thousandths too big.  I'd like to be able to put the smaller diameter plugs on the Norne cable and use it for both headphones since it's only 5' long and very supple.
  
 Any help is appreciated gents.


----------



## icebear

pokemonn said:


> Hello let me ask a question.
> i know this question is better for speaker thread. but there is good kind HD800 users who own loudspeaker also in this thread.
> I have been searching loudspeaker setup which has same SQ with well driven HD800.
> Is there any good loudspeaker setup outthere for cheap budget? Sould i try  new B&W 800 series?
> ...


 
  
 First of all, why don't yo use the SA11S3 also for your headphone set up, different location? I use the same source and the result is awesome with the HD800.
 To the speaker question:
 After getting the HD800 initially I was pretty sure there was no way that my speakers would be able to compete with the resolution these headphone where able to transport. That was until I got a First Watt M2 power amp. Temporarily I used a Luminous Audio Axiom II (passive pre) for adjusting the volume for the speakers, now the pre-out from my GSX-Mk2. With the M2 the speakers resolution is pretty close to HD800 level and what is surprising that even listening at moderate levels, all the detail in quieter passages of the music is still there.
 Class A, no feedback design by Nelson Pass.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm not sure about the sensitivity of the LS50. The concept of the First Watt design is simple circuits with exceptional SQ but rel. low powered. The M2 brings 2x 25W into a 8Ohm load. So in my set up the amp upgrade did make a huge difference for the speaker performance.


----------



## Sorrodje

Connectors on my Venus-audio cable are larger than the Stock ones indeed.


----------



## Sorrodje

coldassault said:


> Any Belgians, Dutch or (northern) French here that could advise me on buying materials for anaxilus modding of my HD800? (What foam or felt? Where to buy it?) Anyone experienced in this or willing to try it out as well? Thx!


 
  
  
 Any access to Cultura Supermarkets ? 
  
 http://www.cultura.com/fle-papier-mousse-a4-2mm-noir-fle-papier-mousse-a4-2mm-noir-3700408319854.html is the substitute for creatology 
 and here's the felt I used http://www.cultura.com/coupon-feutrine-30x45-noir-coupon-feutrine-30x45-noir-3135500000506.html 
  
 Hope it helps.


----------



## Pokemonn

icebear said:


> First of all, why don't yo use the SA11S3 also for your headphone set up, different location? I use the same source and the result is awesome with the HD800.
> To the speaker question:
> After getting the HD800 initially I was pretty sure there was no way that my speakers would be able to compete with the resolution these headphone where able to transport. That was until I got a First Watt M2 power amp. Temporarily I used a Luminous Audio Axiom II (passive pre) for adjusting the volume for the speakers, now the pre-out from my GSX-Mk2. With the M2 the speakers resolution is pretty close to HD800 level and what is surprising that even listening at moderate levels, all the detail in quieter passages of the music is still there.
> Class A, no feedback design by Nelson Pass.
> ...


 
 Thank you for reply!
 Yes SA11S3 is at different location. its for speaker setup at my living room. headphone setup is at my bed room.
 Your experience is very informative! I may try some good power amps! Thank you for your advices!


----------



## bearFNF

oregonian said:


> Can someone clarify something for me please?
> 
> Are there two diameters of HD800 plugs (the part that goes into the ear cup?  I have a pair of ENIGMAcoustics Dharma headphones that use the same plugs in the ear cups as the HD800...........but the Norne Audio Vanquish cable I use for my HD800 will not fit in the Dharma due to outside diameter of the plug being a few thousandths too big.  I'd like to be able to put the smaller diameter plugs on the Norne cable and use it for both headphones since it's only 5' long and very supple.
> 
> Any help is appreciated gents.



I have seen different sized plugs, usually due to someone copying the OEM plug incorrectly. I was helping a vendor test their new cables and we found out that the source he used to get the plugs was making copies of the OEM plug and falsely calling them OEM. But they were loose enough that the cable would not stay put during use. Needless to say the cable vendor had words with the source and then went to a better source for in spec connectors.


----------



## shultzee

pokemonn said:


> Hello let me ask a question.
> i know this question is better for speaker thread. but there is good kind HD800 users who own loudspeaker also in this thread.
> I have been searching loudspeaker setup which has same SQ with well driven HD800.
> Is there any good loudspeaker setup outthere for cheap budget? Sould i try  new B&W 800 series?
> ...


 
  
  
 These are amazing for the price.  Better than the B & W 800 series IMHO ( I have heard them both) .     You can buy them for around 1299.00 a pair.    They come very tight.   Need to run them for a 100 hours before any critical listening.
  
 http://www.stereophile.com/content/wharfedale-jade-3-loudspeaker#oL3M1wBOziFDGU6c.97


----------



## DavidA

oregonian said:


> Can someone clarify something for me please?
> 
> Are there two diameters of HD800 plugs (the part that goes into the ear cup?  I have a pair of ENIGMAcoustics Dharma headphones that use the same plugs in the ear cups as the HD800...........but the Norne Audio Vanquish cable I use for my HD800 will not fit in the Dharma due to outside diameter of the plug being a few thousandths too big.  I'd like to be able to put the smaller diameter plugs on the Norne cable and use it for both headphones since it's only 5' long and very supple.
> 
> Any help is appreciated gents.


 
 Had a issue with cheap china plugs, sometime they were too loose and would not stay attached correctly, but then for the price you can get 3 pairs vs the one pair.  Note that its seems like only the outside housing of the plug that needs to be changed, the inner section where the cables are attached seem to be no different from cheap to expensive.


----------



## shabta

sorrodje said:


> Any access to Cultura Supermarkets ?
> 
> http://www.cultura.com/fle-papier-mousse-a4-2mm-noir-fle-papier-mousse-a4-2mm-noir-3700408319854.html is the substitute for creatology
> and here's the felt I used http://www.cultura.com/coupon-feutrine-30x45-noir-coupon-feutrine-30x45-noir-3135500000506.html
> ...


 
 I thought the creatology was adhesive. How do you use the papier mousse in place of it? I live near a cultura....


----------



## Sorrodje

shabta said:


> I thought the creatology was adhesive. How do you use the papier mousse in place of it? I live near a cultura....


 
  
 I bought some double sided tape : http://www.amazon.fr/Scotch-Permanent-Double-face-ruban/dp/B00004Z47L/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1450209335&sr=8-9&keywords=double-sided+tape


----------



## shabta

sorrodje said:


> I bought some double sided tape : http://www.amazon.fr/Scotch-Permanent-Double-face-ruban/dp/B00004Z47L/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1450209335&sr=8-9&keywords=double-sided+tape


 
 Ok I have that. Merci Beaucoup!


----------



## tehsprayer

Hey guys need your opinion.
  
 There is a Woo Audio WA6 being sold for $500 CAD (like $360 USD) that is local, although he bought it in 2012 he said about 50 hours of use total and is in mint condition.
  
 Or should I wait to get a used Valhalla 2 for around $290 USD which is $400 CAD once someone offers it for sale.
  
 The woo is priced extremely well so I'm really unsure.


----------



## AlanU

tehsprayer said:


> Hey guys need your opinion.
> 
> There is a Woo Audio WA6 being sold for $500 CAD (like $360 USD) that is local, although he bought it in 2012 he said about 50 hours of use total and is in mint condition.
> 
> ...


 
 I auditioned the HD800 with WA6. I thought it was an excellent combo. For 500 I'm surprised no on scooped it up already on CAM.


----------



## Pokemonn

sorry for slightly offtopic, but I found a answer for my privious newbie question which i post here. so i will post FYI who use KEF LS50.
 I found KEF LS50 require properly setting backward at least >500mm wide(and this was written on LS50 owners manual.). with this setting, LS50 sound rich, full, 3D, lifelike, very fun!
 Thank you guys who advice me. and Thank you @jude for recommend us KEF LS50 at head fi buying guide!
 I'm extlymly happy now!
 Happy merry chiristmas!!!
 now please back on topic. Thanks!


----------



## paulchiu

pokemonn said:


> sorry for slightly offtopic, but I found a answer for my privious newbie question which i post here. so i will post FYI who use KEF LS50.
> I found KEF LS50 require properly setting backward at least >500mm wide(and this was written on LS50 owners manual.). with this setting, LS50 sound rich, full, 3D, lifelike, very fun!
> Thank you guys who advice me. and Thank you @jude for recommend us KEF LS50 at head fi buying guide!
> I'm extlymly happy now!
> ...


 
  
 500mm wide?  Do you mean 500mm in front of a back surface?  Or do you mean 500mm wide as in each LS50 from the other, in a near field application on a large table?


----------



## Oregonian

oregonian said:


> Can someone clarify something for me please?
> 
> Are there two diameters of HD800 plugs (the part that goes into the ear cup?  I have a pair of ENIGMAcoustics Dharma headphones that use the same plugs in the ear cups as the HD800...........but the Norne Audio Vanquish cable I use for my HD800 will not fit in the Dharma due to outside diameter of the plug being a few thousandths too big.  I'd like to be able to put the smaller diameter plugs on the Norne cable and use it for both headphones since it's only 5' long and very supple.
> 
> Any help is appreciated gents.


 

 So I got the calipers out last night and measured the Norne plugs vs the stock Enigma Acoustics plug ends (which appear to be the same size as the stock HD800 cable. 
  
 Norne (on the top in the picture) is .370 and the Enigma Acoustics is .310, which explained the non-fit of the Norne cable on my Dharma headphone.  I'll have Ted @ Headphone Lounge put on the smaller plug ends after Xmas. 
  
 Thanks for the info.


----------



## kvn864

how do you disconnect the cable from HD800, not obvious, and I don't want to ally force.


----------



## citraian

kvn864 said:


> how do you disconnect the cable from HD800, not obvious, and I don't want to ally force.


----------



## icebear

kvn864 said:


> how do you disconnect the cable from HD800, not obvious, and I don't want to ally force.


 

 Yeah, it sits in there pretty tight but basically you"ll have to wiggle (*not* twist or turn) a little bit and pull it straight out. It is held in place by a magnet which is pretty strong. So once you get over the first 1or 2 mm it pops right out. A little scary the first time


----------



## kvn864

icebear said:


> Yeah, it sits in there pretty tight but basically you"ll have to wiggle (*not* twist or turn) a little bit and pull it straight out. It is held in place by a magnet which is pretty strong. So once you get over the first 1or 2 mm it pops right out. A little scary the first time


 
 that makes sense, thank you, I was wondering about that, I tried with a little force, and didnt want to apply too much.


----------



## icebear

kvn864 said:


> that makes sense, thank you, I was wondering about that, I tried with a little force, and didnt want to apply too much.


 
 Some fellow head-fier pm'd me and possibly the little notch with needs to be aligned when pluggin in could be the reason for the very tight snap and not actually a magnet. That was just my guess as the effect is pretty similar. So there might actually NOT be a magnet, sorry for the confusion


----------



## defbear

My way of removing a connector from my precious set of hd800's. Get a stable grip on the frame of the headphone (cup). Make sure you are not going to slip and crush the metal screen etc. Grip the connector where it has curves to fit your fingers. I use index and thumb. Pull straight. Wiggle does not really help and you do not want to expand the connector channel. When it comes time to replace the connector, the notch makes sure you cannot put the connector back incorrectly. Line it up. I hear the connection can loosen up with repeated pulling out and putting in. (I can hear you!) so don't do it too often. My third party balanced cable is not as tight.


----------



## Swolern

I just discovered Piano Guys: Simple Gifts album. So awesome on the hd800!


----------



## bearFNF

Yeah, no magnet involved from what I have seen.
 There is a groove inside the cable barrel connector that mates with a rib inside the headphone socket. 
 What you are feeling is the rib snapping into the groove.
 The notch (headphone side) and peg (cable side) are only there to ensure the leads are lined up correctly.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



here's a picture

  





icebear said:


> Some fellow head-fier pm'd me and possibly the little notch with needs to be aligned when pluggin in could be the reason for the very tight snap and not actually a magnet. That was just my guess as the effect is pretty similar. So there might actually NOT be a magnet, sorry for the confusion


----------



## MrMan

2 questions.
  
 Has anyone tried to Anodize the HD800's ?
  
 And has anyone tried to make custom pads for it?
  
 Both things I'm wanting to do.


----------



## Moonhead

Experts say the hardest thing to reproduce are the human voice and piano, so try not to listen to Stax


----------



## Mortalcoil

kvn864 said:


> how do you disconnect the cable from HD800, not obvious, and I don't want to ally force.


 
 As an added side note to the already solid advice given by several members be careful not to apply force or pressure on the mesh around the cup area.
  
 Be mindful of where your fingers are when you pull out the connector.
  


mrman said:


> 2 questions.
> 
> Has anyone tried to Anodize the HD800's ?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not that Im aware of besides a high end paint job from Colorware.
  
 No custom pads as far as Im aware of either.


----------



## rwalkerphl

I'm just sitting hear listening to Mark Knopfler Tracker in FLAC format in VOX running my Mac Pro out through my UA Apollo to a Cavalli Liquid Carbon into my HD800's balanced..... Oh....my....god....


----------



## nepherte

rwalkerphl said:


> I'm just sitting hear listening to Mark Knopfler Tracker in FLAC format in VOX running my Mac Pro out through my UA Apollo to a Cavalli Liquid Carbon into my HD800's balanced..... Oh....my....god....


 
  
 Yup. Mark Knopfler really makes your HD800 shine. On Every Street has never sounded as good!


----------



## rwalkerphl

nepherte said:


> Yup. Mark Knopfler really makes your HD800 shine. On Every Street has never sounded as good!


 

 The HD800's balanced through the Cavalli has taken it to a different level...


----------



## judge888

Finally gotten my hd800s. I love them, amzing sound clarity, although they really do punish poor source, almost makes me want to plug in different headphones when listening to a yputube video!


----------



## paulchiu

judge888 said:


> Finally gotten my hd800s. I love them, amzing sound clarity, although they really do punish poor source, almost makes me want to plug in different headphones when listening to a yputube video!


 
  
 wait.  you got the HD800S, the black version?


----------



## Swolern

paulchiu said:


> wait.  you got the HD800S, the black version?


That's the only color they come in. Other countries released first.


----------



## paulchiu

swolern said:


> That's the only color they come in. Other countries released first.


 
  
 my dealer does not have a date for me as yet.


----------



## MrMan

judge888 said:


> Finally gotten my hd800s. I love them, amzing sound clarity, although they really do punish poor source, almost makes me want to plug in different headphones when listening to a yputube video!


 
  
 HD650 for me is the king of hi-fi for poor sources. HD800 for great sources.


----------



## judge888

paulchiu said:


> wait.  you got the HD800S, the black version?




Nope, my apologies for the confusion. I should of typed witha bit more care. Just the standard hd800.


----------



## sling5s

I have the Cavalli Liquid Carbon for my HD800 (balanced). Is the Valhalla 2 going to do anything better than the Liquid Carbon?


----------



## defbear

rwalkerphl said:


> I'm just sitting hear listening to Mark Knopfler Tracker in FLAC format in VOX running my Mac Pro out through my UA Apollo to a Cavalli Liquid Carbon into my HD800's balanced..... Oh....my....god....


I have a UA Apollo also. How are you hooking up the Mac and the LC?


----------



## rwalkerphl

defbear said:


> I have a UA Apollo also. How are you hooking up the Mac and the LC?


 

 I send the monitor outs to a NewOldSound McOne:
  
 http://new-old-sound.com/products/20-mcone
  
 I can switch outputs from speakers to the headphone amp as needed.


----------



## xskugga

Got the Silver Dragon V3 a couple of days ago and did the anax mod...holy **** fam. I thought it couldn't get any better, but I was wrong. The soundstage is even like the grand canyon now, yet isn't too big, the sub-bass hits harder and has a better texture in general, the mids are LCD-2 liquid, and the treble is sparkly and airy with no sibilance to be heard what so ever. I never knew treble could sound this good before these as well. It's like the LCD-2s with a near K702 soundstage now. Love them even more now. I don't know if it's just the mod or a combination of the mod and cable (will check later), but it's much better. I wasn't really keen on modding $1500 cans, but these do improve, be it by witchcraft or whatever else.


----------



## Swolern

xskugga said:


> Got the Silver Dragon V3 a couple of days ago and did the anax mod...holy **** fam. I thought it couldn't get any better, but I was wrong. The soundstage is even like the grand canyon now, yet isn't too big, the sub-bass hits harder and has a better texture in general, the mids are LCD-2 liquid, and the treble is sparkly and airy with no sibilance to be heard what so ever. I never knew treble could sound this good before these as well. It's like the LCD-2s with a near K702 soundstage now. Love them even more now. I don't know if it's just the mod or a combination of the mod and cable (will check later), but it's much better. I wasn't really keen on modding $1500 cans, but these do improve, be it by witchcraft or whatever else.


Congrats!! Would you say the silver cables make the 800 a tad brighter, that's what I've heard from others. Or more pronounced on both ends of the spectrum?


----------



## ti5002000

HI guys
  
 Any of you tried to drive the hd800 thrue the balanced rear outputs of the dac?
  
 I have a questyle cma800i.
  
  
 Regards
  
 Tiago


----------



## Fido2

Anybody recommend a reasonably priced copper cable? Where to find the best combo of price/quality? Im not sure Im a cable believer.


----------



## whirlwind

fido2 said:


> Anybody recommend a reasonably priced copper cable? Where to find the best combo of price/quality? Im not sure Im a cable believer.


 
 Not sure what price range is reasonable to you.
  
 Norne Draug 2 is a great cable, imo.


----------



## Fido2

Yes it is....I have one its just too short. I need a 10 footer and thats pricey. Wonder if I could trade it in?


----------



## whirlwind

fido2 said:


> Yes it is....I have one its just too short. I need a 10 footer and thats pricey. Wonder if I could trade it in?


 
 Yeah, a 10 footer would be pretty pricey....not sure about trade in.....could probably sell it  though.


----------



## raybone0566

fido2 said:


> Anybody recommend a reasonably priced copper cable? Where to find the best combo of price/quality? Im not sure Im a cable believer.


Ela industries, girl name Lauren. Beautiful cables, well made.


----------



## Swolern

fido2 said:


> Anybody recommend a reasonably priced copper cable? Where to find the best combo of price/quality? Im not sure Im a cable believer.


 
 If you want a noticeable upgrade i would look around for a used Cardas Clear cable. I just got mine in, still breaking it in, but can notice increased clarity & instrument separation already. I was never a cable believer before, but wow! I cant believe how much of a difference they make on my hdvd800 with balance Cardas Clear! I am sure a believer now!
  
 They will pop in the "For Sale" section here every once in a while for a discounted price.


----------



## Fido2

Well so far Im impressed with these HD800s. I first heard them at the LA canjam back in 09(?) and i remembered the huge soundstage. Finally decided to buy my first set. The midrange is so detailed and natural. Top to botton they're very clean with no distortion anywhere. I like hearing every little nuance in voices and guitars etc. Very nice. They really transfer the emotion.


----------



## MrMan

If anyone is looking for a new cable for the HD800 but doesn't want to pay the high prices of premade cable. See if the company that you like will sell the raw cable and contact Peterek. He makes some very high quality cables at a fraction of the cost.
  
 This was a cable he made for LCD-X (if i recall correctly) with the litz copper/silver cable. Sold it for considerably cheaper then the stock premade price.


----------



## Sorrodje

Venus-audio on ebay is a geat cable maker as well. very reasonably priced products. http://stores.ebay.com/ilikevenusaudio/


----------



## xskugga

swolern said:


> Congrats!! Would you say the silver cables make the 800 a tad brighter, that's what I've heard from others. Or more pronounced on both ends of the spectrum?


 
 I would say more pronounced on both ends, but more noticeably in the highs. It doesn't make them more sibilant though.


----------



## cuiter23

Most likely will be an owner of one tomorrow! Pretty excited


----------



## whirlwind

cuiter23 said:


> Most likely will be an owner of one tomorrow! Pretty excited


 
 congrats....lots of fun to be had.


----------



## tehsprayer

Is there any point in looking for a cable upgrade? Is it worth it if you don't mind the aesthetics of the stock cable?


----------



## paulchiu

tehsprayer said:


> Is there any point in looking for a cable upgrade? Is it worth it if you don't mind the aesthetics of the stock cable?


 
  
 I would also recommend staying with the stock cable for a while, say 6 months.


----------



## Mentis

paulchiu said:


> I would also recommend staying with the stock cable for a while, say 6 months.


 
 ? why


----------



## paulchiu

mentis said:


> ? why


 
  
 After 6 months, those stock Sennheiser designed cables should have enough time to settled in.  You should have learned how it sounds with the genre of music you enjoy.  Is the low enough for your organs, EDM.  Are the vocals lush enough for you?  Etc....
 Then you can ask upgrade experts the areas you want improvement.
 Over the years, the major areas where I found premium cables add that are noticeable are noise, low frequencies and then all the other stuff like clarity, soundstage, separation, etc.  Most of all, it is noise.  With a cave-silent background, you will get your clarity and definition via headphones.
  
 But, depending on your music absolute silence may not be worth an extra $500 to $2000 in cables.  Frankly, in the case of HD800 the cables are darn great.  I have tried Cardas' best as well as ALO and two other custom names with the HD800 only to find that they all address certain individual ranges in frequency.
 Yes, I would recommend ALO with Bach organs but is it worth changing everytime?  
 There really isn't some a cable that does everything great out there.  At least what I have found.
  
 IMO, give that stock cable a try first.


----------



## JustinGN

Still loving my HD800s after almost two years of ownership.  Zero regrets.
  
 However, the stock cable has come apart at both connectors (spontaneous stress fracture inside each cable connector; fixed with super glue, internal wires not affected, no damage to cans themselves), and the rubber/vinyl sheathing is cracking and splintering apart like some cheap Radio Shack cable.  Has anyone noticed this sort of wear and tear at all?  Being Colorware headphones, I'm not eligible for warranty replacement of the cable, and I'm loathe to spend $300 for another set of identical rubbish from Sennheiser if others are having similar issues.
  
 For those who have replaced them, any advice on vendors that don't charge a $150+ "HD800 Premium" on their cables, like Moon Audio does?  I know I won't hear any appreciable difference in a cable upgrade, so I'm really just looking for a better built replacement, if possible, and I'm curious what you folks have chosen for those, or if I'm in some weird minority with my cable construction issues here.


----------



## raybone0566

justingn said:


> Still loving my HD800s after almost two years of ownership.  Zero regrets.
> 
> However, the stock cable has come apart at both connectors (spontaneous stress fracture inside each cable connector; fixed with super glue, internal wires not affected, no damage to cans themselves), and the rubber/vinyl sheathing is cracking and splintering apart like some cheap Radio Shack cable.  Has anyone noticed this sort of wear and tear at all?  Being Colorware headphones, I'm not eligible for warranty replacement of the cable, and I'm loathe to spend $300 for another set of identical rubbish from Sennheiser if others are having similar issues.
> 
> For those who have replaced them, any advice on vendors that don't charge a $150+ "HD800 Premium" on their cables, like Moon Audio does?  I know I won't hear any appreciable difference in a cable upgrade, so I'm really just looking for a better built replacement, if possible, and I'm curious what you folks have chosen for those, or if I'm in some weird minority with my cable construction issues here.


About 140.00 on eBay. Ela industries.


----------



## cuiter23

Thanks for the welcomes @Amictus and @whirlwind. Looks like I'll be staying here for a while.


----------



## MWSVette

raybone0566 said:


> About 140.00 on eBay. Ela industries.


 

 ​They made me a set for my HD 700's.  They are very well made.  Come in a variety of colors.  They were shipped very quickly.  I would highly recommend their cables. They are a great value for the money.


----------



## kvn864

I am eyeballing this cable:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Furutech-Silver-Plated-Shield-DIY-Headphone-Upgrade-Cable-For-SENNHEISER-HD800-/121382752353?var=&hash=item1c42f9d061msTjxcSfS2biF_b7pUvz41g
 but, I would like it to be soft, totally dislike those stiff/super durable ones, anyone'd know how this one is? Thanks


----------



## Oregonian

mwsvette said:


> ​They made me a set for my HD 700's.  They are very well made.  Come in a variety of colors.  They were shipped very quickly.  I would highly recommend their cables. They are a great value for the money.


 
 Do they use the "small" diameter plugs going into the ear cups?  Any chance you can grab a pair of calipers and measure the ones on that cable for me?  Reason I'm asking - I want a cable for my Dharma headphones that uses the HD800 receptacles but the aftermarket Norne cable I have for my HD800 has the large plugs and won't fit in my Dharma.


----------



## drez

justingn said:


> Still loving my HD800s after almost two years of ownership.  Zero regrets.
> 
> However, the stock cable has come apart at both connectors (spontaneous stress fracture inside each cable connector; fixed with super glue, internal wires not affected, no damage to cans themselves), and the rubber/vinyl sheathing is cracking and splintering apart like some cheap Radio Shack cable.  Has anyone noticed this sort of wear and tear at all?  Being Colorware headphones, I'm not eligible for warranty replacement of the cable, and I'm loathe to spend $300 for another set of identical rubbish from Sennheiser if others are having similar issues.
> 
> For those who have replaced them, any advice on vendors that don't charge a $150+ "HD800 Premium" on their cables, like Moon Audio does?  I know I won't hear any appreciable difference in a cable upgrade, so I'm really just looking for a better built replacement, if possible, and I'm curious what you folks have chosen for those, or if I'm in some weird minority with my cable construction issues here.




I have tried many HD 800 cables. The best connectors are the original Sennheiser which I think are Lemo or the Furutech connectors which are dearer but well machined and using higher quality materials and plating. I think the ADL or.furutech HD800 cables are quite reasonable in price, but the connectors by themselves are like $125! Other third party connectors I have had less positive experience with mostly for the fit and retention. I can't speak for all connectors though. I'm also not sure which part Moon Audio uses and if it is a higher quality part I would not be surprised that it costs more.


----------



## Moonhead

Late Christmas present anyone 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SENNHEISER-HD800-HD-800-HEADPHONES-NEW-BOXED-FACTORY-SEALED-OFFICIAL-WARRANTY-/111859973169?hash=item1a0b5fbc31:g:NKsAAOSw~bFWNgLW


----------



## lovethatsound

moonhead said:


> Late Christmas present anyone
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SENNHEISER-HD800-HD-800-HEADPHONES-NEW-BOXED-FACTORY-SEALED-OFFICIAL-WARRANTY-/111859973169?hash=item1a0b5fbc31:g:NKsAAOSw~bFWNgLW


look like they had 6 sets,only 1 left now lol.


----------



## twsmith

Regarding the stock HD800 headphone cable -- definitely give this a try before investing in any expensive (or even not so expensive) aftermarket cable.  If you have a balanced amp, I would go further and recommend re-terminating the stock cable with 2 3-pin XLR connectors or a 4-pin connector.   This is not difficult to do yourself or find a good tech to do it.  Why? -- I've tried a number of so-called high-end cables including Cardas Clear and SAA Endorphin, and while initially they seemed impressive in the sense that they delivered a somewhat "cleaner" sound, what I discovered after much back and forth switching, is that what these high-end cables may really be doing is blunting or smoothing the upper mid-range frequencies - this removes a lot of the musically-rich presence and detail that is the true signature of the HD800s, and to some extent may even slightly reduce the overall dynamic range.  I think a lot of people actually prefer this type of sound, which in effect removes what is erroneously termed "graininess" which is thought to be due to the perceived "poor quality" of the stock cable. What the designers of some of these aftermarket cables do is "fiddle with" the electrical characteristics of the cables to achieve the sound that many people seem to prefer.  It's not difficult to achieve this by changing the impedance and other electrical characteristics of a particular cable using different wiring configurations, wire composition, etc.   I won't argue with this approach at all, since the HD800s, being so revealing, can in fact make a lot of not so well-recorded music sound overly strident and harsh, especially when coupled with a mediocre amp which may not have good synergy with either the headphone or cable.   What I found (my own set up is balanced using the Headamp GS-X MkII amp), is that the stock cable (balanced) is truly outstanding and sounds much better than any other cable I've used (although I've not tried all of them).   The detail, presence and dynamic range of the HD800 is restored and the music is all the more exciting and involving.   This is definitely NOT confirmation bias or a placebo effect.    Bottom line -- give the stock cable a fair and honest try.


----------



## raybone0566

oregonian said:


> Do they use the "small" diameter plugs going into the ear cups?  Any chance you can grab a pair of calipers and measure the ones on that cable for me?  Reason I'm asking - I want a cable for my Dharma headphones that uses the HD800 receptacles but the aftermarket Norne cable I have for my HD800 has the large plugs and won't fit in my Dharma.


You can contact her and she'll make whatever you want. All cables are made to order. Ela audio on eBay. Or her Facebook page


----------



## thecrow

For members that gave the hd800 and maybe others at home am I (probably) wasting my time looking at complementing headphones for the home?

The hd800 is my main HP and I using it with a woo wa2 and various premium tubes. I see these reduced prices in the x2 and he560 and he400i. And then there's the hd650/hd600

Am I right in thinking if I bought other HPs for home I'd have no need to use them?

Put me out of my misery and say yes, they would not be used. 

I already have my portable/closed gear covered. 

Thanks


----------



## Thenewguy007

thecrow said:


> For members that gave the hd800 and maybe others at home am I (probably) wasting my time looking at complementing headphones for the home?
> 
> The hd800 is my main HP and I using it with a woo wa2 and various premium tubes. I see these reduced prices in the x2 and he560 and he400i. And then there's the hd650/hd600
> 
> ...


 
  
 Don't get a headphones that shares the characteristics of the HD800, like the ones you mentioned. They won't hold up to it
  
 Go with dark or bass canon headphones if you want something to complement your HD800.


----------



## iDesign

cuiter23 said:


> Thanks for the welcomes @Amictus and @whirlwind. Looks like I'll be staying here for a while.


 
  
 Great photo. The new Burson Soloist SL Mk2 looks very nice.


----------



## thecrow

thenewguy007 said:


> Don't get a headphones that shares the characteristics of the HD800, like the ones you mentioned. They won't hold up to it
> 
> Go with dark or bass canon headphones if you want something to complement your HD800.


That's why I'm not bothering with the t1 or dt880s. 

But with various tubes with the wa2 I'm thinking that covers (loosely speaking) a wide enough ground using the hd800s without real need for other "toys"

But geez the hifiman stuff is currently well priced on eBay/amazon


----------



## Swolern

thecrow said:


> For members that gave the hd800 and maybe others at home am I (probably) wasting my time looking at complementing headphones for the home?
> 
> The hd800 is my main HP and I using it with a woo wa2 and various premium tubes. I see these reduced prices in the x2 and he560 and he400i. And then there's the hd650/hd600
> 
> ...


It depends on the music you listen to IMO. To me the HD800 has no other match with instrumental (especially stringed instruments), vocal, jazz, classical, light & classic rock. On the other hand electronic, hip hop, & dub step always sounded better on the th-900 to me. Was a perfect complimenting set of cans IMO.


----------



## thecrow

swolern said:


> It depends on the music you listen to IMO. To me the HD800 has no other match with instrumental (especially stringed instruments), *vocal*, jazz, classical, *light & classic rock*. On the other hand electronic, hip hop, & dub step always sounded better on the th-900 to me. Was a perfect complimenting set of cans IMO.


well that's got 85% of my prefs covered. I'll again stop looking for deals on open headphones for the house


----------



## Moonhead

I listen to all the genres above on my HD800, But with poor recordings like punk i have My HD650 which to me still is Among the best cans out there and I prefer open-back.


----------



## cuiter23

thecrow said:


> For members that gave the hd800 and maybe others at home am I (probably) wasting my time looking at complementing headphones for the home?
> 
> The hd800 is my main HP and I using it with a woo wa2 and various premium tubes. I see these reduced prices in the x2 and he560 and he400i. And then there's the hd650/hd600
> 
> ...


 
  
 The HD800 could very well be the only headphone many people will ever need. Although I kinda want something that is the polar opposite just for fun!


----------



## lukeap69

cuiter23 said:


> The HD800 could very well be the only headphone many people will ever need. Although I kinda want something that is the polar opposite just for fun!




Exactly the reason I have a PM-2.


----------



## CarpeDijon

cuiter23 said:


> Although I kinda want something that is the polar opposite just for fun!




I like my AD-2000 just for fun and now I've added the X2. Lower-tiered open cans, for sure, but fun nonetheless. 



lukeap69 said:


> Exactly the reason I have a PM-2.



Now that's a higher-tiered set of cans I'd love to have some fun with.


----------



## kvn864

twsmith said:


> the stock cable (balanced) is truly outstanding and sounds much better than any other cable I've used (although I've not tried all of them).


 
 this is what I was thinking too, only one problem for me though, I'd like soft cable, the stock one isn't.


----------



## bearFNF

Yep, the stock cable is too stiff for me. Like my Q french silk much better. Very flexible and lightweight, like a paracord rope.


----------



## shabta

cuiter23 said:


> The HD800 could very well be the only headphone many people will ever need. Although I kinda want something that is the polar opposite just for fun!


 
 That's why I got the NAD HP50. Inexpensive, closed, slightly warmish, darkish, yet sound lovely. Great when the HD800 seems to be a bit too revealing...


----------



## mrmarano

I firmly agree, but perhaps for slightly different reasons.
  
 I think how I experience a piece of gear is just as important as its performance _per se_. How well does the object feel in the hand? Does it enhance or distract from the act of auditioning music in some practical or meaningful way? These factors are just as important as measurements and the sound quality, but rarely get as much attention.
  
 I very much like the stock cable. It's well-made. All connectors on both unbalanced and balanced version feel solid, heavy, easy to grip. The Kevlar sheath greatly reduces microphonic transfer; no rumbling in the headset when shifting the cable. It's thinner and quite light, so I don't have this heavy cord pressing down on me. It's flexible enough to bend it any way I wish while being stiff enough to avoid unwanted coiling. And it's long enough, so I can move about the vicinity or shift position without worrying about stressing the cable or pulling equipment out of place.
  
 The only thing I wish were different isthe yoke bead, where the cable splits out to each ear. Would that it were made in a wide Y-shape (like Grado's), to span each ear line away from the sides of my neck.
  
 Plus, the price is often right. I found a used CH-800 S (balanced) on Amazon for $220, in near mint condition.
  
 I can't comment on sound quality compared to other cables; I haven't tried any. My HD800 sound of bliss as-is.


----------



## koiloco

thecrow said:


> For members that gave the hd800 and maybe others at home am I (probably) wasting my time looking at complementing headphones for the home?
> 
> The hd800 is my main HP and I using it with a woo wa2 and various premium tubes. I see these reduced prices in the x2 and he560 and he400i. And then there's the hd650/hd600
> 
> ...


 
 Buy a used pair of HE-6 and be done with.  That's what I did and have enjoyed  both HD800 and HE-6 very much.


----------



## vnmslsrbms

koiloco said:


> Buy a used pair of HE-6 and be done with.  That's what I did and have enjoyed  both HD800 and HE-6 very much.


 
 Also the LCD-3 or LCD-2 is a common pairing as well.  Nice yin and yang.


----------



## cuiter23

I'll add the MDR-Z7. Now those are 2 complete opposites 

I feel the HD650 difference is not drastic enough for me to own both haha.


----------



## thecrow

vnmslsrbms said:


> Also the LCD-3 or LCD-2 is a common pairing as well.  Nice yin and yang.


That's where the idea all started but I'm worried that's going to get me needing/seeking another amp. 





koiloco said:


> Buy a used pair of HE-6 and be done with.  That's what I did and have enjoyed  both HD800 and HE-6 very much.


See point above.

I have the otl wa2 and luckily have various tubes for some differences between them for different moods.


----------



## Wil

I think i'm about done for now..
  
 Laptop -> Ifi iusb -> Audio Gd Ref 10.32 -> Line Magnetic 518ia w/ APPJ adapter -> Anaxed HD800. 
  
 Happy new year all!


----------



## whirlwind

Happy New Year Everybody.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I am going to enjoy my HD800 today listening to my Pink Floyd Collection....no better way to enjoy a new years day.


----------



## sysfail

Great way to start the New Years.


----------



## jibzilla

The best and closest complimentary headphone for the hd800 is the Lcd-X. It is the closest sound signature to the hd800 and closest drive wise as well. Unless you want to get another amp to drive the complimentary headphone you want to go with the X. An 007mk1 is a great compliment as well but will also require a separate amp unless you want to use a woo wee or something along those lines which I do not recommend.
  
 I use my hd800 with rock and X with hip hop and electronic. I also owned a Level 1 D7k and th-600 and while I do like those 2 headphones allot with electronic and hip hop because of their low ohm and the fact that they are dynamic they seem to have an off bass sound to them with ohm output amps that I think are 100% necessary for the hd800 to shine. The X is very low ohm as well but does not seem affected as it is planar.
  
 I would go with btg sunrise cables for both headphones. Cables are a touchy subject so I will just leave it at that.


----------



## jlbrach

i owned the HD800 and the LCD-3F and i am told and read that the X is much easier to drive than the 3F..since I found the 800 tougher to drive than the 3F I am a bit perplexed as to how the X could be the same to anyone in terms of amping needed with the HD800


----------



## jibzilla

jlbrach said:


> i owned the HD800 and the LCD-3F and i am told and read that the X is much easier to drive than the 3F..since I found the 800 tougher to drive than the 3F I am a bit perplexed as to how the X could be the same to anyone in terms of amping needed with the HD800


 
  
 I'm a bit perplexed as well. At least in my experience the lcd-3c and f needed more gain than the hd800 did and this is on quite a few different amps. The X and hd800 both are about even steven on my Teton, between 11am and noon and with the X actually needing a lil bit more volume than the hd800.
  
 I found even the Ethers harder to drive than the hd800's. Listened to them at around 1-2pm on the Teton at the Nashville meet. The Ether's have a hd800 like sound as well but ohm output does not make them sound better in the bass and take away it's thin sound the way ohm output does for the hd800. For the Ether's I recommend the th-600/900 as a compliment for those needing a closed can in their stable and those looking at a solid state amp.


----------



## Thenewguy007

wil said:


> I think i'm about done for now..
> 
> Laptop -> Ifi iusb -> Audio Gd Ref 10.32 -> Line Magnetic 518ia w/ APPJ adapter -> Anaxed HD800.
> 
> Happy new year all!


 
  
 Wow, I just looked up Line Magnetic. A  whopping 120 lbs $5,000 amp huh?
 You also owned another $5k amp, the Sun Audio 2a3.
  
 Not that i will be owning either soon, but what would you say the differences  between those two amps?
  
  

 Also any thoughts on the Little dot MKVIII driving the HD800? I considered it at one time buying it. How was the bas, staging, dynamics of it?


----------



## joshk4

whirlwind said:


> Happy New Year Everybody.
> 
> I am going to enjoy my HD800 today listening to my Pink Floyd Collection....no better way to enjoy a new years day.




Nice! 

I'm enjoying wishing you were, dark side of the moon and animals on the discovery version as well.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

thenewguy007 said:


> Wow, I just looked up Line Magnetic. A  whopping 120 lbs $5,000 amp huh?
> You also owned another $5k amp, the Sun Audio 2a3.
> 
> Not that i will be owning either soon, but what would you say the differences  between those two amps?
> ...


 
 $5,000?  120 lbs?  Wow.. its PORTABLE?  You can take it with you to drive your HD800s as you jog! (but buy a 1 mile long extension cord first).


----------



## thecrow

joshk4 said:


> Nice!
> 
> I'm enjoying wishing you were, dark side of the moon and animals on the discovery version as well.


I'm not wanting to go off topic but hey, we're 21623 posts into this thread......

This pink floyd box set has me intrigued. For you bigger pink floyd fans than me, I'm a bit over dark side of the moon (Evrn though I visit that album every now and then, I feel like Ive been there done that years ago - I'm in my 40's) and currently prefer wish you were here. What do you recommend I listen to next from them similar to wish you were here or the next logical step or two?

It's great that part of enjoying my hd800 set up is they way it gets me interested in particular albums based on what it delivers (if you know what I mean)


----------



## raybone0566

My hd800's having me listening to music I never had interest in before. U2's albums are absolutely incredible.


----------



## cuiter23

Not sure if anyone shares the same sentiments as me but if the HD800S is set out to be a warmer sounding headphone owning it would be redundant imp. I think most people buy the 800 for its analytical and neutral characteristic and have a 2nd pair of "fun" sounding headphones. I could of waited and got the 800S but I wanted a truly reference can and bought a warmer headphone to complement.


----------



## joshk4

thecrow said:


> I'm not wanting to go off topic but hey, we're 21623 posts into this thread......
> 
> This pink floyd box set has me intrigued. For you bigger pink floyd fans than me, I'm a bit over dark side of the moon (Evrn though I visit that album every now and then, I feel like Ive been there done that years ago - I'm in my 40's) and currently prefer wish you were here. What do you recommend I listen to next from them similar to wish you were here or the next logical step or two?
> 
> It's great that part of enjoying my hd800 set up is they way it gets me interested in particular albums based on what it delivers (if you know what I mean)


 
  
 Wishing you were here and dark side of the moon are great albums from them, and they sound great on the HD 800 (in hope of keeping the post relevant to the HD 800 )
  
 If you do like wishing you were here, I can suggest you "Animals", especially the "Dogs" track for me.
  
 Great to find another listener who enjoys Pink Floyd!


----------



## thecrow

joshk4 said:


> Wishing you were here and dark side of the moon are great albums from them, and they sound great on the HD 800 (in hope of keeping the post relevant to the HD 800 )
> 
> If you do like wishing you were here, I can suggest you "Animals", especially the "Dogs" track for me.
> 
> Great to find another listener who enjoys Pink Floyd!


I'll sus out Animals. I've just ordered a cd of momentary lapse of reason.

I noticed these 2011 remastered versions are available in individual albums too. 

I might listen to Wish you were here later tonight


----------



## joshk4

thecrow said:


> I'll sus out Animals. I've just ordered a cd of momentary lapse of reason.
> 
> I noticed these 2011 remastered versions are available in individual albums too.
> 
> I might listen to Wish you were here later tonight


 
  
 Ahh ok nice.
  
 Yeah they can be bought individually.
  
 I do find that there compilation album "Foot In The Door, A: The Best Of Pink Floyd" is really good as you get the best tracks from their other albums such as Division Bell, The Wall etc.
  
 But yeah do give Animals a try, as it is kinda to me like a really great "concept" album... most of the songs are 10 minutes long. If you like those type of tracks like "Shine on you crazy diamond", than dogs can be a compliment in a way but with different tone (structurally track wise, it is similar, i.e long instrumental).


----------



## PleasantSounds

thecrow said:


> This pink floyd box set has me intrigued. For you bigger pink floyd fans than me, I'm a bit over dark side of the moon (Evrn though I visit that album every now and then, I feel like Ive been there done that years ago - I'm in my 40's) and currently prefer wish you were here. *What do you recommend I listen to next from them similar to wish you were here or the next logical step or two?*
> 
> It's great that part of enjoying my hd800 set up is they way it gets me interested in particular albums based on what it delivers (if you know what I mean)


 
  
 For someone enjoying "Wish You Were Here" I think the best recommendation is "Meddle". Just bear through the first half, as this is the farewell with the "old" Floyd. The last piece, a23-minute suite "Echoes" was a sign of things to come. It sounds like recorded by a different band than the rest of the album, and IMO has a lot of the WYWH climate.


----------



## thecrow

pleasantsounds said:


> For someone enjoying "Wish You Were Here" I think the best recommendation is "Meddle". Just bear through the first half, as this is the farewell with the "old" Floyd. The last piece, a23-minute suite "Echoes" was a sign of things to come. It sounds like recorded by a different band than the rest of the album, and IMO has a lot of the WYWH climate.


interesting points you make that will be interesting to listen for. Similar to listening to revolver/rubber soul and the white album re the Beatles journey

I was reading on some pink floyd threads that meddle is very much a consistent favourite. But also quite a concept album I believe - I'll see if that's good or bad. I might "Spotify" that one


----------



## joshk4

pleasantsounds said:


> For someone enjoying "Wish You Were Here" I think the best recommendation is "Meddle". Just bear through the first half, as this is the farewell with the "old" Floyd. The last piece, a23-minute suite "Echoes" was a sign of things to come. It sounds like recorded by a different band than the rest of the album, and IMO has a lot of the WYWH climate.




Echoes from meddle is great. Especially Live at Pompeii.


----------



## thecrow

And after what album does yoko Ono came into it?
Or jeanine pettibone?


----------



## Swolern

Phil Collins: Face Value 24/192 is magical on the HD800. Dont think it can get better than than. Although i havent heard the vinyl version.


----------



## whirlwind

thecrow said:


> joshk4 said:
> 
> 
> > Nice!
> ...


 
 There is not a bad one in the bunch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Animals is my all -time favorite.....maybe because I got to see that tour.


----------



## whirlwind

thecrow said:


> pleasantsounds said:
> 
> 
> > For someone enjoying "Wish You Were Here" I think the best recommendation is "Meddle". Just bear through the first half, as this is the farewell with the "old" Floyd. The last piece, a23-minute suite "Echoes" was a sign of things to come. It sounds like recorded by a different band than the rest of the album, and IMO has a lot of the WYWH climate.
> ...


 
 It is epic sounding on the HD800....all are fantastic.


----------



## thecrow

whirlwind said:


> It is epic sounding on the HD800....all are fantastic.


Looks like it's going to be meddle and animals. And the incoming momentary lapse of reason. 

Thanks for the input. 

It's been great to get back to my hd800's after a week and a half. It's ended up being a Thomas Dolby night.

And happy new year to all. May all your spending in audio be fruitful and wise


----------



## Fido2

Momentary Lapse of Reason is great. Division Bell is very good as well.


----------



## Oregonian

thecrow said:


> I'm not wanting to go off topic but hey, we're 21623 posts into this thread......
> 
> This pink floyd box set has me intrigued. For you bigger pink floyd fans than me, I'm a bit over dark side of the moon (Evrn though I visit that album every now and then, I feel like Ive been there done that years ago - I'm in my 40's) and currently prefer wish you were here.* What do you recommend I listen to next from them similar to wish you were here or the next logical step or two?*
> 
> It's great that part of enjoying my hd800 set up is they way it gets me interested in particular albums based on what it delivers (if you know what I mean)


 
  
 Try Animals (my personal favorite Floyd album), then Division Bell next, then the most recent release, which was material recorded during that time period - Endless River.  Love them all.............and I'm with you, DSOTM is a classic and amazing but I prefer Wish You Were Here.


----------



## pietcux

oregonian said:


> Try Animals (my personal favorite Floyd album), then Division Bell next, then the most recent release, which was material recorded during that time period - Endless River.  Love them all.............and I'm with you, DSOTM is a classic and amazing but I prefer Wish You Were Here.



Hi Oregonian, all this talk about Pink Floyd got me into jumping on a used HD800 for 750€ today. Now I am sitting in my office and miss my 6.3 to 3.5 mm adapter to give them a run with the albums that you mentioned from my dap. As I am alone in the office today, an open can would be allowed.


----------



## kuekwee

rogerthatmand said:


> Can I get please recommendations for and amp to pair with my HD800? (Anything but Bottlehead)
> My budget is 500$



I am using ifi micro Idsd. Great sound.


----------



## sheldaze

rogerthatmand said:


> Can I get please recommendations for and amp to pair with my HD800? (Anything but Bottlehead)
> My budget is 500$


 
 Grace Design m9xx makes for a surprisingly good pairing.


----------



## shabta

I posted a review of the new HD800 S with a lot of comps with the HD800. Thought some of you might enjoy having a look...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-hd-800-s/reviews/14950


----------



## 13713

shabta said:


> I posted a review of the new HD800 S with a lot of comps with the HD800. Thought some of you might enjoy having a look...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-hd-800-s/reviews/14950




Thanks for the review. Very nice.


----------



## Sennheiser

shabta said:


> I posted a review of the new HD800 S with a lot of comps with the HD800. Thought some of you might enjoy having a look...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-hd-800-s/reviews/14950


 
  
 Nice comprehensive review! Thanks @shabta!


----------



## defbear

I have the ifi idsd and really enjoy my hd800 with it. I saw Pink Floyd 15 + times including once with Syd Barrett. David Gilmore hung out in the audiences in the early days and remembered my name. Roger Waters has impossibly long fingers. Many of the early shows were just 3 hours of them. And then I never saw them after Dark Side. Meddle is the album. They never escaped Syd's influence and both David and Rodger have said so. (Thanks for letting me brag)


----------



## thecrow

whirlwind said:


> Happy New Year Everybody.
> 
> I am going to enjoy my HD800 today listening to my Pink Floyd Collection....no better way to enjoy a new years day.


Well today meddle, animals and momentary lapse of reason arrived in the post. 2011 remasters

I just have to find time to properly listen and (I'm assuming) let these grow on me. 

Thanks for your post and for everyone's opinion who chimed in on their favs and other info


----------



## whirlwind

^^ A couple of play throughs of each, and you will be smiling...all great choices by the way.


----------



## Taowolf51

All new pads for the HD800's! Aside from being a massive PITA to get on, I like 'em! The fibers were coming off and caused some itching sometimes, and the padding was almost non-existent.
  
 With the new pads, there's no itch, much better grip on my skin (they seem like they could stand some major head banging), and a smidge more clamp, which is still pretty negligible.
  
 I mean, it's still inexcusably overpriced, but I'm glad I did it regardless.


----------



## shabta

taowolf51 said:


> All new pads for the HD800's! Aside from being a massive PITA to get on, I like 'em! The fibers were coming off and caused some itching sometimes, and the padding was almost non-existent.
> 
> With the new pads, there's no itch, much better grip on my skin (they seem like they could stand some major head banging), and a smidge more clamp, which is still pretty negligible.
> 
> I mean, it's still inexcusably overpriced, but I'm glad I did it regardless.


 
 I replaced my pads last summer. A little hard and more clampy at first, after two weeks the fit was perfect. The sound was also a little better, or at least different, since the driver position moved back a few cm from my ears...


----------



## Mentis

shabta said:


> I replaced my pads last summer. A little hard and more clampy at first, after two weeks the fit was perfect. The sound was also a little better, or at least different, since the driver position moved back a few cm from my ears...


 
 that's a thick pad u got...


----------



## shabta

mentis said:


> that's a thick pad u got...


 
 Ooops LOL yeah mm not cm


----------



## paulchiu

shabta said:


> I replaced my pads last summer. A little hard and more clampy at first, after two weeks the fit was perfect. The sound was also a little better, or at least different, since the driver position moved back a few cm from my ears...


 
  
 Was this OEM Sennheiser pads or a third party improvement?


----------



## pietcux

Pads should be considered as consumable parts and therefore need to be replaced regularly. I recommend a planned exchange before the sound starts to suffer, let's say after 3 years.


----------



## pietcux

Pink Floyd Meddle Echoes 2011 remaster>Flac>Sony ZX1>LOD>MEIER CORDA JAZZ FF>HD 800=pure bliss


----------



## Fido2

Nice Vio amp. Is that a V200?


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## Fido2

Vurr nice...I love my V281


----------



## Fido2

ultrainferno said:


> I'm for the first time listening to my HD800 on the Leben CS300F. Wawzers.




Do u like the Leben better than the V281 with the HD800?


----------



## 13713

ultrainferno said:


> I'm for the first time listening to my HD800 on the Leben CS300F. Wawzers.


 
 Is that a V281 and V850? Why yes I believe it is, I was on the verge of getting that same Lebon in september but instead the money went to a SOTA and V600. This year I will make the Leben mine!!!
  
 Very nice setup. Amazing art as well.
  
 Edit: Sorry about that now the question. The difference between the Violectric setup and the Leben. How would you describe it with the HD800's?


----------



## icecreamfreak

I just upgraded my HD800 headphone cable to a cardas clear lite xlr 2m cable, adds presence and more distinct bass to the lower frequencies in my opinion, using it with the HDVD800 amp and lavry engineering DA10 DAC  - Fully balance set up. Great for good classical recordings, but picks ups faults in recordings very distinctly. Ironically I use my baby orpheus for other genres of music ie pop which I listen to much less.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

icecreamfreak said:


> I just upgraded my HD800 headphone cable to a cardas clear lite xlr 2m cable, adds presence and more distinct bass to the lower frequencies in my opinion, using it with the HDVD800 amp and lavry engineering DA10 DAC  - Fully balance set up. Great for good classical recordings, but picks ups faults in recordings very distinctly. Ironically I use my baby orpheus for other genres of music ie pop which I listen to much less.




Are you comparing with a Sennheiser balanced cable? If comparing with the stock single ended cable, the differences could well be the amp (more power on tap, balanced drive, other output impedance hence damping factor?,...)

For some weeks now, I'm trying to figure out if I need to go balanced, or copper cable, or maybe both? (Have an Auralic Taurus mk2). Your findings above don't isolate which change amounts to the heard differences in sound.

Could somebody chime in who can compare balanced Sennheiser cable to balanced Cardas, or single ended Sennheiser to balanced Sennheiser / single ended Cardas to balanced Cardas? Your input would be much appreciated!


----------



## Dadracer

coldassault said:


> icecreamfreak said:
> 
> 
> > I just upgraded my HD800 headphone cable to a cardas clear lite xlr 2m cable, adds presence and more distinct bass to the lower frequencies in my opinion, using it with the HDVD800 amp and lavry engineering DA10 DAC  - Fully balance set up. Great for good classical recordings, but picks ups faults in recordings very distinctly. Ironically I use my baby orpheus for other genres of music ie pop which I listen to much less.
> ...


 
 I have compared the Sennheiser SE and balanced cables with my HD800s via the Taurus mk2  headamp. I prefer the sound with the balanced cable. It just gives more of the same insight, clarity and sound stage that the SE cables with no downside.


----------



## Dadracer

Oh and I no experience with the Cardas cables though.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

dadracer said:


> I have compared the Sennheiser SE and balanced cables with my HD800s via the Taurus mk2  headamp. I prefer the sound with the balanced cable. It just gives more of the same insight, clarity and sound stage that the SE cables with no downside.




Thanks for your observation. Did you mean HD800 or really the new HD800 S? (Some clever naming would have been helpful from Sennheiser's part)

Somebody else who can attest to this or has a different opinion / experience with Cardas vs stock?


----------



## Dadracer

I mean the HD800 classic, standard with no mods as opposed to the HD800 S which I have yet to hear so cant say anything about it.


----------



## icecreamfreak

coldassault said:


> Are you comparing with a Sennheiser balanced cable? If comparing with the stock single ended cable, the differences could well be the amp (more power on tap, balanced drive, other output impedance hence damping factor?,...)
> 
> For some weeks now, I'm trying to figure out if I need to go balanced, or copper cable, or maybe both? (Have an Auralic Taurus mk2). Your findings above don't isolate which change amounts to the heard differences in sound.
> 
> Could somebody chime in who can compare balanced Sennheiser cable to balanced Cardas, or single ended Sennheiser to balanced Sennheiser / single ended Cardas to balanced Cardas? Your input would be much appreciated!


 
 Nope not comparing, I dont have the stock cable to compare with. But my local headphone shop made me an offer I can t refuse, as they did not have the stock cable- lets says they gave me a very similar price to the stock cable , so I took it pretty much without a comparison of the balance stock and the clear lite cardas balance. Im just saying compared with my single ended stock cable the improvements I personally feel it makes


----------



## Sorrodje

@icecreamfreak : wow another HE60/HD800 mate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  Those headphones are really interesting to compare, aren't they ?  Two different version of "reference sound" from Sennheiser from two different eras.  they're both close and really different.


----------



## icecreamfreak

sorrodje said:


> @icecreamfreak : wow another HE60/HD800 mate
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah they are interesting, though generally speaking I feel the HD800 is better for classical - my opinion is its more dry sounding less coloured and seems more detailed than the HE60- maybe even faster sounding, and seems to have less bass impact than the HE60. Strange that a electrostatic seems to have more bass impact than the HD800- of course there are bassy amps that can compensate on bass amount.
  
 But then again, correct me if Im wrong, but the HE60 seems more 'versatile' to play other genres of music (ie.pop). What you think ?
  
 On a side note, my HE60/HEV70 is weird, when I first switch it on there is a channel imbalance but it catches up after about 1/2 hour to become balance channels again, do you have this problem as well ? Its weird, wonder if anything is wrong with it.....


----------



## Swolern

icecreamfreak said:


> I just upgraded my HD800 headphone cable to a cardas clear lite xlr 2m cable, adds presence and more distinct bass to the lower frequencies in my opinion, using it with the HDVD800 amp and lavry engineering DA10 DAC  - Fully balance set up. Great for good classical recordings, but picks ups faults in recordings very distinctly. Ironically I use my baby orpheus for other genres of music ie pop which I listen to much less.


 
 Amazing setup for your HD800!


----------



## lovethatsound

coldassault said:


> Are you comparing with a Sennheiser balanced cable? If comparing with the stock single ended cable, the differences could well be the amp (more power on tap, balanced drive, other output impedance hence damping factor?,...)
> 
> For some weeks now, I'm trying to figure out if I need to go balanced, or copper cable, or maybe both? (Have an Auralic Taurus mk2). Your findings above don't isolate which change amounts to the heard differences in sound.
> 
> Could somebody chime in who can compare balanced Sennheiser cable to balanced Cardas, or single ended Sennheiser to balanced Sennheiser / single ended Cardas to balanced Cardas? Your input would be much appreciated!


I have both cables,balance and single ended.The cardas clear cable brings your hd800 to life.The downside it's not cheap and sometimes the cable can be a bit messy,but it's not a big problem.


----------



## Sorrodje

icecreamfreak said:


> Yeah they are interesting, though generally speaking I feel the HD800 is better for classical - my opinion is its more dry sounding less coloured and seems more detailed than the HE60- maybe even faster sounding, and seems to have less bass impact than the HE60. Strange that a electrostatic seems to have more bass impact than the HD800- of course there are bassy amps that can compensate on bass amount.
> 
> But then again, correct me if Im wrong, but the HE60 seems more 'versatile' to play other genres of music (ie.pop). What you think ?
> 
> On a side note, my HE60/HEV70 is weird, when I first switch it on there is a channel imbalance but it catches up after about 1/2 hour to become balance channels again, do you have this problem as well ? Its weird, wonder if anything is wrong with it.....


 
  
 I don''t agree about all  . IMO HD800 and HD800S bass hits harder with more impact and precision and it Mids is where the HE60 shines at its best . those mids are wonderful with a close to perfect balance with euphonie and accuracy . i wonder how the HE90 could beat that.  Treble on both HE60 and HD800 is prone to sibilances so it's quite unforgiving for bad recordings IMO.  HD800S is significantly less sibilant than both. Both soundstage are amazing. HD800/S is more impressive with that ****** cinemascope presentation we all know where the HE60 offers a kind of "uber HD600" soundstage. Presentation is as coherent as HD6X0 but much more airier.
  
 I use my he60 from a Stax SRM-T1 with an adapter. 
  
 ymmv


----------



## icecreamfreak

sorrodje said:


> I don''t agree about all  . IMO HD800 and HD800S bass hits harder with more impact and precision and it Mids is where the HE60 shines at its best . those mids are wonderful with a close to perfect balance with euphonie and accuracy . i wonder how the HE90 could beat that.  Treble on both HE60 and HD800 is prone to sibilances so it's quite unforgiving for bad recordings IMO.  HD800S is significantly less sibilant than both. Both soundstage are amazing. HD800/S is more impressive with that ****** cinemascope presentation we all know where the HE60 offers a kind of "uber HD600" soundstage. Presentation is as coherent as HD6X0 but much more airier.
> 
> I use my he60 from a Stax SRM-T1 with an adapter.
> 
> ymmv


 
 Perhaps its the he60/hev70 set up , I have not heard anything else with the HE60 so my impressions are based on this set up alone. Yes I agree the HE60/HEV70   are wonderful mids and yes overall defintely more musical than the HD800 setupI have, but I feel its more coloured than the HD800 set up I have  which is dryer  but very detailed  mids/highs  . Yes I agree the HD800 setup I have the  bass has more precision, in fact i would probably say the same for highs and mids as well  , but I wont say harder on my set up at least. Mmm yes HD800 sibilance defintely unforgiving, I dont get much sibilances on the HE60 and I feel its more forgiving than my HD800 set up. I did take the time to ensure the HD800 set up was as flat freuqency response as far as  my ears can tell, and that meant rejecting a cards clear xlr to xlr cable for a much cheaper cable just to ensure the sound didnt get too strong bass, so again it could be my HD800 set up. 
  
 Overall I would say HD800 setup is less musical  than the HE60/HEV70, but sometimes being dryer makes for better realism, add the realism uncoloured dryness with that cinemascope presentation which you mention which I agree totally with , and for serious classical music and opera  , you really think you are in a concert hall/ opera house - I like that but Im not sure if its everyones taste though. Just like in a real concert hall /opera housse, you get people dozing off from he music being too boring for them !
  
 ie. my housemate plays the violin, so Im bombarded daily by doses of high pitch sounds, when I hear a good recording violin sonata on a hd600(on the same setup as my HD800)  or he60/hev70, the high pitch are not so piercing and hence more pleasant and musical for some , but on the HD800 it is as piercing as my housemate playing , so the HD800 may just be dry and being realistic sounding even if it hurts !!! They sometimes say the truth hurts haha!!!
  
 I have heard the HE90 with the accompanying sennheiser tube amp,its been 8 years , so my impressions are rough at best , its in my opinion also coloured but very organic (flowing) and musical and forgiving, but defintely less bass impact than the HE60/HEV70  , always made me think of honey glazed ham compared to normal ham for some reason, whereby the orpheus is the honey glaze on the normal ham. thats all I can remember of it. 
  
 Ofcourse ymmv .
  
  I cant comment at all about the HD800s as I have never heard it  before, aint available in australia yet. Worth an upgrade from the HD800 ? Any other sonic differneces you feel between HD800 and HD800s ?


----------



## Sorrodje

Consider the 800S as a less sibilant and more neutral HD800. Articulation between mids ( more) and treble ('less) is much smoother . Mids and treble are better integrated. HD800S offer maybe a a better subjective feel of fast transient and attack/bite . More presence for voices as well . I'm still evaluation if is there any point where the 800 could outperform its young sibling . I feel the HD800 is somewhat more fun with more excitement due to the oversharpening effect of the 6khz peak. I find that's particularly enjoyable with classical .  I could see myself see the HD800S as a more "normal" headphone if  that makes sense.
  
 HD800S is not a revolution but a welcome small but significant improvement. Will it be more pleasurable for all ? I can't tell. As usual , only personal experience matters.
  
 Take those impressions with the usual grain of salt though.  
  
 Considering you have the HE60 and the HD800, I can say that to my ears , the HD800S mids are closer to the HE60's ones but not as good and since I received the HD800S, I hear more HE60's tendancy to sibilance.  those comparisons should illustrate above impressions  
  
 I'll probably keep the 800S and let go the 800.


----------



## ubs28

The HD800 S has more sub bass and the treble is smoother. That's the only difference I hear with my ears.

I suppose you can achieve a similar result with an amplifier that colours the HD800.


----------



## blacknile

sorrodje said:


> Consider the 800S as a less sibilant and more neutral HD800.


 
  
 Hi, interesting you find your HD800 sibilant. Apologies as I have not followed the full conversation - what music do you listen to? Could it be that the sibilance is in the recordings rather than the music, and the HD800 is merely offering a faithful representation? Else  could  it be an issue with sample differences or maybe slight differences between old and new HD800 production units?
  
 I ask this because my HD800 (a late 41K SN unit) shows no sibilance whatsoever, using a Violectric V200, a pair of 30 years old ears with no known frequency issues and mostly ECM (European Jazz) and chamber/symphonic music FLACs. As a rough comparison the treble on my HD800 is much smoother than on my Beyerdynamic DT990 600ohm and my Grado SR325is.
  
 In passing I will add that I absolutely *love* the detail the HD800 extracts from acoustic recordings. It is addictive  YMMV.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I just ordered the Mjolnir 2 and am debating between the stock Sennheiser balanced cable and the cheaper ZY and HGC cables. I don't have the budget or appetite for super high end cables, and am interested more in durability than perceived sonic differences.


----------



## Mr Rick

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I just ordered the Mjolnir 2 and am debating between the stock Sennheiser balanced cable and the cheaper ZY and HGC cables. I don't have the budget or appetite for super high end cables, and am interested more in durability than perceived sonic differences.


 
 I'm very satisfied with the YZs. I use them with the HD800 and HD650.


----------



## Sorrodje

blacknile said:


> mostly ECM (European Jazz) and chamber/symphonic music FLACs.


 
  
  
 There's no sibilance to find in that kind of music. I've never been bothered by excessive sibilance myself with the HD800 considering I listen mostly the same music than you.  but Just give a listen to any close miced vocals and you'll notice sibilances are emphasized by the 800 and less so by the 800S.  it takes a few seconds to point it.


----------



## Blackmore

How much HD800S are in EUR zone Europe? Cant find the price in Holland yet, but in Norway they are NOK 15480 = EUR 1595 and in UK GBP 1200 = EUR 1595 , so, I guess they are  EUR 1595 in EUR zone?
  
 THX


----------



## Sorrodje

1595 indeed.


----------



## sheldaze

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I just ordered the Mjolnir 2 and am debating between the stock Sennheiser balanced cable and the cheaper ZY and HGC cables. I don't have the budget or appetite for super high end cables, and am interested more in durability than perceived sonic differences.


 
 I'll 2nd the ZY cable - no sonic issues on my HD800 (compared to original cable) and seems quite durable.


----------



## Blackmore

OK, thx.
  
 Well, consider the fact they come with XLR cable, have some mods and new black color, the price is  justified?, but I wouldnt mind if they were like EUR 1350 v.s. EUR 1095 HD800, maybe one day.  
  
 Quote:


sorrodje said:


> 1595 indeed.


----------



## Moonhead

Hd800 is 675 pounds here.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SENNHEISER-HD800-HD-800-HEADPHONES-NEW-BOXED-FACTORY-SEALED-OFFICIAL-WARRANTY-/121859872169?hash=item1c5f6a15a9:g:NKsAAOSw~bFWNgLW


----------



## Sorrodje

blackmore said:


>


 
 Yup . If you're interested in the 800S but not in hurry , just wait the street price lower to more affordable levels as the HD800 did. my 2 cents.  For people who are after their first HD800 , IMO the price difference is OK.


----------



## blacknile

sorrodje said:


> There's no sibilance to find in that kind of music. I've never been bothered by excessive sibilance myself with the HD800 considering I listen mostly the same music than you.  but Just give a listen to any close miced vocals and you'll notice sibilances are emphasized by the 800 and less so by the 800S.  it takes a few seconds to point it.


 
  
  
 I see your point thanks. So could the HD800 S be considered, in your experience, a more 'forgiving' type of instrument compared to the HD800, designed to give satisfactory results with a broader range of recordings?


----------



## Blackmore

Sure, thats the only way, or buying used, but thats another story...
  
 Correct me if I am wrong, but how about Donald North Stratus you were waiting, have you got one?
  
  
  
 Quote:


sorrodje said:


> Yup . If you're interested in the 800S but not in hurry , just wait the street price lower to more affordable levels as the HD800 did. my 2 cents.  For people who are after their first HD800 , IMO the price difference is OK.


----------



## Sorrodje

@blacknile : more neutral , less sibilant , a bit more mids , smoother mids/treble articulation. less sharp .. a bit less forgiving but not so much. It's still a HD800 
  
 @blackmore : Still waiting... my Stratus will be warmly welcomed when he'll arrive at home for sure....


----------



## Blackmore

Nice...wonder if you have any access to try Bakoon amp, which at the moment cost the same as Stratus.
  
 Quote:


sorrodje said:


> @blacknile : more neutral , less sibilant , a bit more mids , smoother mids/treble articulation. less sharp .. a bit less forgiving but not so much. It's still a HD800
> 
> @blackmore : Still waiting... my Stratus will be warmly welcomed when he'll arrive at home for sure....


----------



## Sorrodje

Nope. Not any chance. that's very rare stuff here in France.  From what I observed, almost all Stratus onwers reached the end game territory with the Stratus. and often with the HD800. so I hope i'll do the same and don't care about anymore other amp when mine will be there. 
  
 BTW , during the wait I'm still playing. Vali2 and Krell KSA5 Clone are in approach


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Any experience with Venus Audio's balanced HD800 cable? They would appear to be the most affordable.


----------



## sheldaze

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Any experience with Venus Audio's balanced HD800 cable? They would appear to be the most affordable.


 
 I thought they looked familiar.
 I just order HE1000/HE400i balanced cables from them. I'll let you know when they arrive.


----------



## Sorrodje

I own that cable (built with cardas) for my hd800 and couldn't be happier. Superb build. Less stiff than the stock cable but still solid. I couldn't be affirmative about sonic improvements but i wouldn't swear there's none.


----------



## jhljhl

I find a good tube amp gives warmth and body/depth to the hd800 like decware taboo and wa5le; no sibilance.  Also a good cable like Cardas clear (used with hd800 adapters originally for audeze) but especially Endorphin cables. Hd800 scales remarkably well.


----------



## jjacq

Hey guys how do you maintain your anax modded hd800 dust free? I recently got mine but I'm kind of worried without the dust cover on it...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

jhljhl said:


> I find a good tube amp gives warmth and body/depth to the hd800 like decware taboo and wa5le; no sibilance.  Also a good cable like Cardas clear (used with hd800 adapters originally for audeze) but especially Endorphin cables. Hd800 scales remarkably well.


 

 I'm looking forward to getting my Mjolnir 2: I've only heard HD800 with Vali, and the sound is lovely, albeit slightly smeared. The balanced/unbalanced; tube/SS flexibility combined with the price point sold me, though I was strongly considering going straight to Rag.


----------



## jhljhl

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'm looking forward to getting my Mjolnir 2: I've only heard HD800 with Vali, and the sound is lovely, albeit slightly smeared. The balanced/unbalanced; tube/SS flexibility combined with the price point sold me, though I was strongly considering going straight to Rag.


 
 I haven't tried the mj2 but you'll get ss power and midrange warmth from the tubes and that should pair well.  The HD800 is an exceptional headphone that scales really well.  To me the HE1000 gets that last 10%.  But with the right amp pairing HD800 is just as enjoyable.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

As a complementary headphone, do you think the HE1000 is more useful than the HE6, that is, does it fill more of the gaps in the HD800's capabilities?


----------



## sheldaze

I very much enjoy switching from HD800 to HE1000. I've not heard the HE6 though - heard it once at a meet, but under poor noisy circumstances.


----------



## Taowolf51

jjacq said:


> Hey guys how do you maintain your anax modded hd800 dust free? I recently got mine but I'm kind of worried without the dust cover on it...


 
 I just blow into the cups every so often. The driver has a fine mesh over it, so you shouldn't get anything nasty reaching the driver.


----------



## jhljhl

bosiemoncrieff said:


> As a complementary headphone, do you think the HE1000 is more useful than the HE6, that is, does it fill more of the gaps in the HD800's capabilities?


 
  


sheldaze said:


> I very much enjoy switching from HD800 to HE1000. I've not heard the HE6 though - heard it once at a meet, but under poor noisy circumstances.


 
  
 Haven't heard He6.  HD800/HE1000 are good compliments.  HD800/LCD3f is good too.


----------



## Hansotek

Hey guys - I seem to have broken part of the attachment between the earcup and the headband on my HD800. It looks like it is a little white plastic peg-like part with a spring on it. Now the earcup is just hanging on loosely by the hinge. A couple of questions:
  
 1. Is there a hot fix for this? or will I have to send it in for repair?
  
 2. If I do send it in for repair (not under warranty) is Sennheiser my best option?
  
 Thanks in advance. Your advice will be much appreciated.


----------



## icebear

Pictures would help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, either here on head-fi or for the dealer where you got your headphone.
 Either they can fix it locally or need to sent it to Sennheiser themselves.
 If you don't get specific input here I suggest to e-mail Sennheiser US a pricture and they will give you advice


----------



## Hansotek

icebear said:


> Pictures would help  , either here on head-fi or for the dealer where you got your headphone.
> Either they can fix it locally or need to sent it to Sennheiser themselves.
> If you don't get specific input here I suggest to e-mail Sennheiser US a pricture and they will give you advice



Ok. Will take a pic later tonight.


----------



## Hansotek

hansotek said:


> Hey guys - I seem to have broken part of the attachment between the earcup and the headband on my HD800. It looks like it is a little white plastic peg-like part with a spring on it. Now the earcup is just hanging on loosely by the hinge. A couple of questions:
> 
> 1. Is there a hot fix for this? or will I have to send it in for repair?
> 
> ...


 
  
 The damaged part in question. Usually this area isn't exposed at all, but it is just hanging open now.


----------



## icebear

I initially thought you can loosen the part next to it that is fixed with a tiny hex screw but that doesn't seem to be connected at all.
 At the opposite end of the black end part of the head band (close to the pivot point) is anything broken off there?
 That end/edge should limit how far the movement can go. At the moment it goes too far obviously, so the inner spring mechanism gets exposed that you usually can't see.
 I'm not going to try with my own phones how far it can be turned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Maybe it's an easy fix. Good luck figuring it out.


----------



## Sennheiser

hansotek said:


> The damaged part in question. Usually this area isn't exposed at all, but it is just hanging open now.


 
  
 You may want to get in touch with our Customer Service Team. They'll be happy to assist -  email [support2@sennheiser.com] or call [877-736-6434].


----------



## pietcux

To me it seems that the bolt that is holding the ear piece in its position is missing its small torx screw that fixes it from the underside. So you need to go search for this little screw and when you find it you can probably quite easily fix this. But I am afraid that you will only find it inside your vacuum cleaner. And you probably have to also  remove the earpiece with the driver to get proper access to the underside of the bolt. But that is also only some screws, so absolutely doable.


----------



## Taowolf51

hansotek said:


> The damaged part in question. Usually this area isn't exposed at all, but it is just hanging open now.


 
  
 If nothing is physically broken, line the spring up with the little peg on the earcup side (silver painted side), push them together (like they would be normally), and push that chrome hinge peg down back into place. It just looks like the hinge got loose, no big deal. 
 This happened to me, and I put it all back together and haven't had a problem since!


----------



## Hansotek

Thanks @Taowolf51 and @pietcux. I will check these things out and report back. Hopefully, it will be that simple.


----------



## jibzilla

jhljhl said:


> Haven't heard He6.  HD800/HE1000 are good compliments.  HD800/LCD3f is good too.


 
  
 Lcd-X is the best compliment. It and the Ether are closest sound sig. wise and drive wise, the X and hd800 are almost dead on equal out of my Teton. The X has a fuller sound to it and more impactful bass than the Ether. The hd800's thin sound and bass light presence that the Ether has is usually fixed by ohm output amps. The ohm output does not work so well for the Ether though and out of my Teton/Pavane sounded a bit thin and bass light.
  
 The he1k is just too far from a neutral sound to me to be a good compliment for the hd800. Add tubes to the equation, which most ohm output amps are, and I think your looking at a overly done "wild" sound for the he1k. Maybe out of a SS ohm output amp like the ECP lineup or a totally separate amp just for the he1k, ie. Allnic hpa-5000 and Teton. That would be allot of dough though.


----------



## johnjen

A couple of questions if I might…

Could you fill in some more details surrounding these 2 statements?

#1 "the X and hd800 are almost dead on equal out of my Teton"
and 
#2 "ohm output amps."

Thanks JJ :atsmile:


----------



## jibzilla

johnjen said:


> A couple of questions if I might…
> 
> Could you fill in some more details surrounding these 2 statements?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had a nice post for ya but this place threw craps for the hundredth time and deleted my post again. I'd say it's my labtop but all the other websites I visit do fine. So nope you are on your own.


----------



## jhljhl

jibzilla said:


> Lcd-X is the best compliment. It and the Ether are closest sound sig. wise and drive wise, the X and hd800 are almost dead on equal out of my Teton. The X has a fuller sound to it and more impactful bass than the Ether. The hd800's thin sound and bass light presence that the Ether has is usually fixed by ohm output amps. The ohm output does not work so well for the Ether though and out of my Teton/Pavane sounded a bit thin and bass light.
> 
> The he1k is just too far from a neutral sound to me to be a good compliment for the hd800. Add tubes to the equation, which most ohm output amps are, and I think your looking at a overly done "wild" sound for the he1k. Maybe out of a SS ohm output amp like the ECP lineup or a totally separate amp just for the he1k, ie. Allnic hpa-5000 and Teton. That would be allot of dough though.


 

 The hek sounds more lush and deeper sub-bass through wa5le than hd800- it goes beyond the limits of the hd800 even though the hd800 sounds rich with good extension -no sibilance by tube amp and endorphin cable.  I enjoy the hek through the wa5le but I think a ss amp would bring out tighter imaging.  So succeeded in trying to make the hd800 richer sounding.  Now I might try to tighten the hek imaging through ss but still sounds relaxed and romantic through the tube amp.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Perhaps my original post was misunderstood. First, the term I used was "*complement*"—a thing that completes or brings (something else) to perfection, in this case by filling gaps in the HD800—rather than "*compliment*"—a polite expression of praise or admiration. I did not mean to ask about the phone *most similar *to the HD800 at all. My interest in classical music narrows the range of headphones I'm looking for considerably—I have no interest in the Abyss or the Audeze line in general, as the excessive bass and lack of air does not suit orchestral music. However, I find that my HD800 has simply too large a soundstage for solo piano music, and am in search for a phone that has a more intimate soundstage and quicker attack. 
  
 My current candidate is the HE-6, though I'm also looking at the K812. The K1K seems to be even airier than the HD800! Is my understanding of the differences between HE-6 and HD800 accurate?


----------



## jhljhl

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Perhaps my original post was misunderstood. First, the term I used was "*complement*"—a thing that completes or brings (something else) to perfection, in this case by filling gaps in the HD800—rather than "*compliment*"—a polite expression of praise or admiration. I did not mean to ask about the phone *most similar *to the HD800 at all. My interest in classical music narrows the range of headphones I'm looking for considerably—I have no interest in the Abyss or the Audeze line in general, as the excessive bass and lack of air does not suit orchestral music. However, I find that my HD800 has simply too large a soundstage for solo piano music, and am in search for a phone that has a more intimate soundstage and quicker attack.
> 
> My current candidate is the HE-6, though I'm also looking at the K812. The K1K seems to be even airier than the HD800! Is my understanding of the differences between HE-6 and HD800 accurate?


 

 I understood what you meant in the first sense.  I think the lcd3f and hd800 complement each other for all musical genres.  But focusing on classical piano - I would say HEK (the timbre seems more suited) or even HD650.


----------



## JamieMcC

jhljhl said:


> I understood what you meant in the first sense.  I think the lcd3f and hd800 complement each other for all musical genres.  But focusing on classical piano - I would say HEK (the timbre seems more suited) or even HD650.


 
  
 Listening to the HD650 is like well listening to a speaker system with a box over your head compared to the hd800 on a decent set up


----------



## jhljhl

jamiemcc said:


> Listening to the HD650 is like well listening to a speaker system with a box over your head compared to the hd800 on a decent set up


 





 Ok I know what you mean- but through an otl or set amp and through mjolnir2 (maybe?) - the hd650 can sound smooth and velvety or dark and mushy depending who you ask.  But for an "intimate classical piano representation" maybe the hd650.  I've not tried the akg's though.  I might get the massdrop pair to try out.


----------



## Moonhead

Classical piano try Stax 007


----------



## Kyle 491

Those of you who also use the HD800 for gaming should  check out Ori and the Blind Forest, a breathtakingly intense and atmospheric experience through these headphones. Sweeping, emotive orchestral soundscapes combined with visually dense, vivid artwork and challenging platforming action seamlessly intertwine in an experience that transcends mere gameplay.
  
 Apologies if this has been already posted prior.
  
</iframe>


----------



## sysfail

Might be surprising but this album sounds amazing on the HD800 with my setup. Really showcases the HD800's imaging abilities and how precise it is. I was just playing things on shuffle, came across a song on the album, and ended up listening to the entire album.


----------



## Taowolf51

kyle 491 said:


> Those of you who also use the HD800 for gaming should  check out Ori and the Blind Forest, a breathtakingly intense and atmospheric experience through these headphones. Sweeping, emotive orchestral soundscapes combined with visually dense, vivid artwork and challenging platforming action seamlessly intertwine in an experience that transcends mere gameplay.
> 
> Apologies if this has been already posted prior.
> 
> </iframe>




  
 Agreed, a stellar game in every respect. Awesome soundtrack, some of the best aesthetics I've ever seen, great story, and fantastic gameplay. I could write a huge wall of text detailing everything this game gets right.


----------



## ColonelBucket8

Anyone playing Bastion and Transistor? Great story and awesome soundtrack.


----------



## 13713

Game soundtracks are a huge part of what I listen to. I am a huge vinyl junkie. Glad to see some love for Transistor and Ori!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

moonhead said:


> Classical piano try Stax 007


 
 The 009 — and even more, the original Omega from the '90s — are my ideal phones, but until I can get a BHSE it's not in the cards.


----------



## Sennophile

I'm also a totally devoted classical music audiophile.  It's that the HD800 - especially the new HD800 - rendition of the fortepiano is so real (and realistic) that one may describe as larger than life.  In fact, it is just 'grandiose'.
 I just love it with the HDVD 800.


----------



## Hansotek

taowolf51 said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > The damaged part in question. Usually this area isn't exposed at all, but it is just hanging open now.
> ...



This was the problem. Lined it all up, pushed everything back into place and now it is good-as-new.

Thank you so much for your help!!!


----------



## emrelights1973

Anyone using hd800 with Moon *Neo 430HA ? will it be a good investment? or should i go with a tube amp? no i can not audition any of the options  i will feed them with naim nd5xs/cd2x ( will add eps soon)....*


----------



## Fearless1

emrelights1973 said:


> Anyone using hd800 with Moon *[COLOR=333333]Neo 430HA ? will it be a good investment? or should i go with a tube amp? no i can not audition any of the options  i will feed them with naim nd5xs/cd2x ( will add eps soon)....[/COLOR]*




I hated that pairing. No soul what-so-ever. Harsh highs and lack of mids. I tried it with a couple of different DACs as well. If your looking for a sterile sound, one might like the combo, I did not.


----------



## Hansotek

emrelights1973 said:


> Anyone using hd800 with Moon *Neo 430HA ? will it be a good investment? or should i go with a tube amp? no i can not audition any of the options  i will feed them with naim nd5xs/cd2x ( will add eps soon)....*


 
  
 If you're in that price range, you should probably be looking at the Cavalli Liquid Crimson or Liquid Gold, the DNA Stratus or the Questyle CMA800R (or better yet, a pair of them in monoblock configuration).


----------



## Zoom25

hansotek said:


> If you're in that price range, you should probably be looking at the* Cavalli Liquid Crimson or Liquid Gold, the DNA Stratus or the Questyle CMA800R (or better yet, a pair of them in monoblock configuration).*


 

 Comparison to Master 9 for HD 800?
  
 Especially CMA800R in mono vs M9?


----------



## Hansotek

zoom25 said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > If you're in that price range, you should probably be looking at the* Cavalli Liquid Crimson or Liquid Gold, the DNA Stratus or the Questyle CMA800R (or better yet, a pair of them in monoblock configuration).*
> ...


 
  
 The M9 is very proficient (and quite, quite good with the HD800), but these amps are all superior. The thing that strikes me about the CMA800R is that it is super holographic, IMO. I feel like you can just reach out an touch the performers. Organic, liquid, warm, and above all, super clean. I haven't done a head-to-head with these two, I would imagine the M9 is comparatively clean but a little bit drier and less musical in comparison. 
  
 The M9 isn't what I would call clinical sounding, but compared to any of the above it will be. The Cavalli amps rock harder than just about anything - they just have a ton of soul. Even Alex's little Liquid Carbon will go toe-to-toe with the M9 and put up a good fight. The M9 wins against the little Carbon on some technicalities, but when it comes to enjoying the tunes, I find myself reaching for the Carbon more often than not. The Crimson and Gold bring even more musicality - but at a level of technical proficiency that will flatten the M9. You can't go wrong with either. The Stratus, too - that amp's mids will make you cry like a baby. I only heard it once, but my jaw was literally dropped open the entire time. I don't think I've ever heard my music sound prettier.


----------



## vc1187

I recently purchased and received a Stratus, and in its stock form, the HD800 is absolutely stunning!


----------



## 13713

Nice! What was feeding them before? Have you always been a tube guy or is this your first?


----------



## Zoom25

hansotek said:


> The M9 is very proficient (and quite, quite good with the HD800), but these amps are all superior. The thing that strikes me about the CMA800R is that it is super holographic, IMO. I feel like you can just reach out an touch the performers. Organic, liquid, warm, and above all, super clean. I haven't done a head-to-head with these two, I would imagine the M9 is comparatively clean but a little bit drier and less musical in comparison.
> 
> The M9 isn't what I would call clinical sounding, but compared to any of the above it will be. The Cavalli amps rock harder than just about anything - they just have a ton of soul. Even Alex's little Liquid Carbon will go toe-to-toe with the M9 and put up a good fight. The M9 wins against the little Carbon on some technicalities, but when it comes to enjoying the tunes, I find myself reaching for the Carbon more often than not. The Crimson and Gold bring even more musicality - but at a level of technical proficiency that will flatten the M9. You can't go wrong with either. The Stratus, too - that amp's mids will make you cry like a baby. I only heard it once, but my jaw was literally dropped open the entire time. I don't think I've ever heard my music sound prettier.


 

 What source were you using in your testing? I figured the M9 might lag behind in 'musicality' based on what I've heard as its very neutral. Although surprised that it also falls behind in transparency.


----------



## Taowolf51

hansotek said:


> This was the problem. Lined it all up, pushed everything back into place and now it is good-as-new.
> 
> Thank you so much for your help!!!


 
  
 Yay! Glad it all worked out in the end.


----------



## yellowblue

The source is really important when it comes to Master 9 and HD800. I owned the Auralic Vega with the Master 9 and sold my HD800 a month later. But when I bought my Totaldac dual things turned right and I bought the HD800 again. The Master 9 can´t create musicality and beautyful midths on its own. But it is a fantastic amp to transport the beauty of a really great source. It doesn´t add something to the sound, but is really transparent. I found the pairing with Sabre Dacs didn´t work for me.


----------



## vc1187

yellowblue said:


> The source is really important when it comes to Master 9 and HD800. I owned the Auralic Vega with the Master 9 and sold my HD800 a month later. But when I bought my Totaldac dual things turned right and I bought the HD800 again. The Master 9 can´t create musicality and beautyful midths on its own. But it is a fantastic amp to transport the beauty of a really great source.* It isn´t euphonic in any way*, but really transparent. I found the pairing with Sabre Dacs didn´t work for me.


 
 This statement sounds like a huge turn off, but I don't think you intended for it to sound that way.


----------



## Hansotek

zoom25 said:


> What source were you using in your testing? I figured the M9 might lag behind in 'musicality' based on what I've heard as its very neutral. Although surprised that it also falls behind in transparency.


 
  
 You're surprised it falls behind in transparency vs. amps that sell for 2-3 times the price? I mean, don't get me wrong, the M9 is great. It is, without question, a flagship caliber device. In it's price range, it is very tough to beat. And I have zero qualms with recommending it with the HD800. I made the above recommendations based on the price of the Neo. FWIW, I'm super jaded when it comes to amps, lol!
  
 I've heard them through various sources ranging from Bimby to the CAS192D all the way up to the Resolution Cantata. I wish I could tell you testing conditions were objectively perfect for everything, but they are not. Also, realize that one's interpretation for "transparency" is somewhat subjective, as are our individual priorities for what we want out of an amp, so take everything with the usual grain of salt and realize YMMV.


----------



## yellowblue

vc1187 said:


> This statement sounds like a huge turn off, but I don't think you intended for it to sound that way.


 
 You are right, I meant the Master 9 doesn´t add something to the sound (like smoothness).


----------



## Zoom25

hansotek said:


> *You're surprised it falls behind in transparency vs. amps that sell for 2-3 times the price?* I mean, don't get me wrong, the M9 is great. It is, without question, a flagship caliber device. In it's price range, it is very tough to beat. And I have zero qualms with recommending it with the HD800. I made the above recommendations based on the price of the Neo. FWIW, I'm super jaded when it comes to amps, lol!
> 
> I've heard them through various sources ranging from Bimby to the CAS192D all the way up to the Resolution Cantata. I wish I could tell you testing conditions were objectively perfect for everything, but they are not. Also, realize that one's interpretation for "transparency" is somewhat subjective, as are our individual priorities for what we want out of an amp, so take everything with the usual grain of salt and realize YMMV.


 
  
 Typically I would completely understood. Although, I've read many times on threads that Kevin Gilmore couldn't even get the parts for $1500, much less it. Not sure how much truth there is to that statement, but I figured if the same unit was being sold by a North American company it would go for closer to $2500+?


----------



## Hansotek

zoom25 said:


> Typically I would completely understood. Although, I've read many times on threads that Kevin Gilmore couldn't even get the parts for $1500, much less it. Not sure how much truth there is to that statement, but I figured if the same unit was being sold by a North American company it would go for closer to $2500+?


 
  
 That doesn't all necessarily translate into sound though either.
  
 Realize for starters that the Master-9 has, quite arguably, the best volume attenuator on the market. Do you think it is cheap to get such precisely matched channels through 100 volume steps? I assure you it is not. That knob is the real deal. Secondly, it has a gorgeous digital display. Gorgeous! Third, consider all the inputs and outputs. SE, 4-pin balanced, dual 3-pin balanced, stereo preamp... then there are 2 balanced and 2 SE inputs (which also contain additional circuitry to for the input short), plus Audio-GD's proprietary input (I forget what that's called).
  
 I mean, Kingwa really packed a lot of stuff in there, so yeah, the price is pretty impressive.


----------



## sheldaze

hansotek said:


> That doesn't all necessarily translate into sound though either.
> 
> Realize for starters that the Master-9 has, quite arguably, the best volume attenuator on the market. Do you think it is cheap to get such precisely matched channels through 100 volume steps? I assure you it is not. That knob is the real deal. Secondly, it has a gorgeous digital display. Gorgeous! Third, consider all the inputs and outputs. SE, 4-pin balanced, dual 3-pin balanced, stereo preamp... then there are 2 balanced and 2 SE inputs (which also contain additional circuitry to for the input short), plus *Audio-GD's proprietary input* (I forget what that's called).
> 
> I mean, Kingwa really packed a lot of stuff in there, so yeah, the price is pretty impressive.


 
*ACCS*


----------



## Zoom25

hansotek said:


> That doesn't all necessarily translate into sound though either.
> 
> Realize for starters that the Master-9 has, quite arguably, the best volume attenuator on the market. Do you think it is cheap to get such precisely matched channels through 100 volume steps? I assure you it is not. That knob is the real deal. Secondly, it has a gorgeous digital display. Gorgeous! Third, consider all the inputs and outputs. SE, 4-pin balanced, dual 3-pin balanced, stereo preamp... then there are 2 balanced and 2 SE inputs (which also contain additional circuitry to for the input short), plus Audio-GD's proprietary input (I forget what that's called).
> 
> I mean, Kingwa really packed a lot of stuff in there, so yeah, the price is pretty impressive.


 

 Fair point. Thanks!


----------



## Zoom25

I'm tempted to get an end game amp for HD 800 and just be done with a finalized headphone system, but at the same time now thinking of getting decent mid sized monitors for desktop use, like the Focal 6s...decisions, decisions.


----------



## Moonhead

Depends on what you use the most. 

I love My HD800 but there not getting used Daily, but My speakers plays 10 hours+ Daily. 
If i where looking for are new pair speakers, it Would be these little active gems, DM5 or DM10.

http://avihifi.co.uk/products.html


----------



## whirlwind

I am so in love with the sound of this with the HD800


----------



## EllieFreckles

Hey guys, I'm new here. 
  
 Hopefully this is the right thread to ask this. If not, I'll edit my post (I apologize). I recently got the HD800. Been dreaming about getting them ever since they first were released. The money was finally right, and so was the timing. So I grabbed one for my birthday/christmas gift. But I made the classic mistake of not having the proper equipment to drive them (so I bought the headphone first, rather than the set up to properly use them). I know, really stupid. I guess I've just been dreaming about them for so long, I let it finally get the better of me. (I actually cried when I finally got them).
  
 That said, I currently have the Anax Mod 2.0 installed. I have a Schiit Lyr amp, and a Fiio E17 DAC. I'm doing all this from my PC. Personally, I'm in love with the HD800 sound. I guess maybe it's because I'm a casual audiophile, but they are blowing my mind. But I also know that I'm not getting the best out of my headphones (I've tried properly DAC/AMP versions before, so I know the difference in sound). 
  
 Being realistic, I have an $800 budget to get a decent DAC/AMP combo. I know that's not enough, and I'm not expecting to get the best out of my headphones. I plan on getting a really nice DAC/AMP in 3 years. So I'm basically trying to get a decent DAC/AMP to hold me over for 3 years. 
  
 I've considered the Magni Uber 2 and Modi Uber 2 + Wyrd stack. But I've also read that they are too clinical/bright with the HD800, so they aren't a good pair. Also, since I already have the Lyr amp, wouldn't that be a downgrade? I assume my DAC would be a better upgrade though (since I'm currently using the E17). The Magni/Modi/Wyrd stack is very tempting, given the price. And they look so sleek and sexy. But I've also read that might not be the best route.
  
 I also looked at the JDSLABS Objective2 + ODAC combo, which also looked appealing. But again, I also read that this isn't a good pair for the HD800 (I know these are picky headphones). Unfortunately, I don't have any hi-fi shops near me, so I have no way of trying these. Outside of ordering off Amazon, and having a 30 day return. Just figured I would see what you guys had to say. Maybe I should just stick with my Lyr/Fiio E17, and wait 3 years until I can get proper equipment. I was just curious if there was a better DAC/AMP set up I could get in the $800 range. 
  
 Thanks for your time and consideration,
  
 <3 Ellie

 EDIT: I just realized this was the High End forum. So I'm probably in the wrong section. I tried to find the HD800 thread in the Headphones (Full Size), but couldn't find an active thread. Hmm. My apologies.


----------



## 13713

Welcome to the club. 
  
 Have you thought about looking for used gear? You can save a lot and find great deals.


----------



## JaZZ

elliefreckles said:


> Hey guys, I'm new here.
> 
> Hopefully this is the right thread to ask this. If not, I'll edit my post (I apologize). I recently got the HD800. Been dreaming about getting them ever since they first were released. The money was finally right, and so was the timing. So I grabbed one for my birthday/christmas gift. But I made the classic mistake of not having the proper equipment to drive them (so I bought the headphone first, rather than the set up to properly use them). I know, really stupid. I guess I've just been dreaming about them for so long, I let it finally get the better of me. (I actually cried when I finally got them).
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's not necessarily the wrong forum, since the HD 800 can absolutely be called high-end.
  
 IMO, the very best you can do if you like accuracy above all is to allow your HD 800 to be driven by a Chord Mojo – excellent DAC and almost perfect amp in one small box.


----------



## Taowolf51

elliefreckles said:


> Hey guys, I'm new here.
> 
> Hopefully this is the right thread to ask this. If not, I'll edit my post (I apologize). I recently got the HD800. Been dreaming about getting them ever since they first were released. The money was finally right, and so was the timing. So I grabbed one for my birthday/christmas gift. But I made the classic mistake of not having the proper equipment to drive them (so I bought the headphone first, rather than the set up to properly use them). I know, really stupid. I guess I've just been dreaming about them for so long, I let it finally get the better of me. (I actually cried when I finally got them).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Another option you can take a look at is the Schiit Valhalla 2 and Bifrost Multibit if you're a fan of Schiit. The V2 is fully OTL, which is often recommended for the HD800's, but still retains a lot of neutrality. It also supplies a ton of headroom at 300-600 ohms, about as much as the beastly Mjolnir.
  
 Don't worry too much about getting the absolute best amp and DAC. The HD800 does scale, but also does surprisingly well on a tight budget as well. They're stellar headphones, and will be stellar even with a relatively inexpensive setup. I'm sure your Lyr/E17 makes them sing. 
  
 And the high-end forum is definitely the right place for this thread. The HD800's are very comfortably high-end in both price and performance (but moreso performance).


----------



## Oregonian

elliefreckles said:


> Hey guys, I'm new here.
> 
> Hopefully this is the right thread to ask this. If not, I'll edit my post (I apologize). I recently got the HD800. Been dreaming about getting them ever since they first were released. The money was finally right, and so was the timing. So I grabbed one for my birthday/christmas gift. But I made the classic mistake of not having the proper equipment to drive them (so I bought the headphone first, rather than the set up to properly use them). I know, really stupid. I guess I've just been dreaming about them for so long, I let it finally get the better of me. (I actually cried when I finally got them).
> 
> ...


 

 Welcome!  I'm probably an outlier but I know what works for me.  I feed my HD800 with an iPhone5 into a NuForce iDo DAC and there into a vintage speaker amp system that is either a Pioneer Spec (top of the line in 1978) or a Pioneer SA7500MKII (mid power level of 45 wpc) and find the HD800 outstanding from both with more than enough bass (a common complaint).
  
 My point is this - you don't have to spend a lot to be blown away by these headphones.  The iDo DAC was $85 on AWD, the lower power amp was $150.  Vintage amps are the hidden gem that many are either overlooking or don't have the room for - it's worth it if you have the space to consider.   I also have two other "low end" DAC's that I use with my computer at work (HRT Microstreamer 2 or NuForce uDAC2) from my Yoga2 into a Pioneer SA-8800 and have had coworkers literally jaw dropping impressed.  I have no interest in spending $1000 for a DAC myself as I find the sound quality exceptional enough.  I am not saying guys shouldn't aim high and spend what they want for a high end solution - just that I went the lower cost route and am beyond content.  $250 for a DAC/amp in my case was more than adequate.


----------



## shabta

taowolf51 said:


> Another option you can take a look at is the Schiit Valhalla 2 and Bifrost Multibit if you're a fan of Schiit. The V2 is fully OTL, which is often recommended for the HD800's, but still retains a lot of neutrality. It also supplies a ton of headroom at 300-600 ohms, about as much as the beastly Mjolnir.
> 
> Don't worry too much about getting the absolute best amp and DAC. The HD800 does scale, but also does surprisingly well on a tight budget as well. They're stellar headphones, and will be stellar even with a relatively inexpensive setup. I'm sure your Lyr/E17 makes them sing.
> 
> And the high-end forum is definitely the right place for this thread. The HD800's are very comfortably high-end in both price and performance (but moreso performance).


 
 +1 +1 +1


----------



## Sorrodje

A good , surprisingly good option is the Little Geek Out V2 as well.  incredible good result with the HD800 and HD6X0  especially in balanced mode. that little think made me seriously think about sell all sedentary gear for my HD800.  
  
 I currently have a Schiit Vali2 as well.  Pretty darn good with my HD800.
  
 Nowadays, there's some really good choice for cheap and that's still Hi-End sound even if the price is not Summit-fi.


----------



## sysfail

elliefreckles said:


> Hey guys, I'm new here.
> 
> Hopefully this is the right thread to ask this. If not, I'll edit my post (I apologize). I recently got the HD800. Been dreaming about getting them ever since they first were released. The money was finally right, and so was the timing. So I grabbed one for my birthday/christmas gift. But I made the classic mistake of not having the proper equipment to drive them (so I bought the headphone first, rather than the set up to properly use them). I know, really stupid. I guess I've just been dreaming about them for so long, I let it finally get the better of me. (I actually cried when I finally got them).
> 
> ...




I have the Valhalla 2 (rolled with Amperex Bugle Boy tubes) + Bifrost Multibit, you could probably make it around ~$800 if you buy used and ~$1000 brand new. This setup is absolutely stellar to me with the HD800, I don't have a desire to upgrade to anything else, it's basically my end game setup. Probably the best setup you can get under 1k for the HD800. Definitely take a look into it!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'd keep the Lyr and upgrade to a multifrost.


----------



## cscales

elliefreckles said:


> Hey guys, I'm new here.
> 
> Hopefully this is the right thread to ask this. If not, I'll edit my post (I apologize). I recently got the HD800. Been dreaming about getting them ever since they first were released. The money was finally right, and so was the timing. So I grabbed one for my birthday/christmas gift. But I made the classic mistake of not having the proper equipment to drive them (so I bought the headphone first, rather than the set up to properly use them). I know, really stupid. I guess I've just been dreaming about them for so long, I let it finally get the better of me. (I actually cried when I finally got them).
> 
> ...




EllieF> +1 on the Mojo recommendation!

Tidal HiFi>Mojo>HD800 w/ BlackDragon>OMG

The Mojo seriously outperformed my RSA SR71A and Centrance DAC port portables, mainly in the sense of space and transparency. To me, music is like a conversation between instruments, and with the Mojo I could now hear ever "voice" clearly, even when everyone was talking at the same time! When you can hear all the parts, it's easier to appreciate the whole and to understand what the composer was hoping to achieve.

FYI: one relative noob to another. All this gear is pretty damn cool, but try not to forget it's all about the music. Not to paint all HeadFi'ers with the same brush, but some here have forgotten to listen to the music. Cheers!


----------



## Mortalcoil

emrelights1973 said:


> Anyone using hd800 with Moon *Neo 430HA ? will it be a good investment? or should i go with a tube amp? no i can not audition any of the options  i will feed them with naim nd5xs/cd2x ( will add eps soon)....*


 

  Pure and simple the 430HA rocks with the HD-800.  The 800's bass comes to life as never before and Im basing my opinion on a newly purchased unit that Ive put maybe only 30 hours on.
  
  My recommendation if you can swing it ($$) go for it.
  
 The headphone SS Amp train stops here IMO.


----------



## cscales

mortalcoil said:


> Pure and simple the 430HA rocks with the HD-800.  The 800's bass comes to life as never before and Im basing my opinion on a newly purchased unit that Ive put maybe only 30 hours on.
> 
> My recommendation if you can swing it ($$) go for it.
> 
> The headphone SS Amp train stops here IMO.





mortalcoil said:


> Pure and simple the 430HA rocks with the HD-800.  The 800's bass comes to life as never before and Im basing my opinion on a newly purchased unit that Ive put maybe only 30 hours on.
> 
> My recommendation if you can swing it ($$) go for it.
> 
> The headphone SS Amp train stops here IMO.




I've had a similar experience with the McIntosh MHA100>hd800. In addition, I was blown away with the front to back holography of the stage. There is one track where I could actually "see" how the vocalist was pretty much sitting in the bass players lap (live performance, supper club, very small stage. It was one of those "you-are-there" experiences we all strive for with our gear.

I have a question for those here with experience of uber$$ amps: 

At what price point do you start to get that sort of full 3D playback? It seems to me that lots of amps can do left to right staging and separation well, but the front to back resolution is something special. 

I could splash for the McIntosh but my sense of fiscal responsibility and self respect would take a beating. It's just a headphone amplifier after all...


----------



## Mortalcoil

cscales said:


> I've had a similar experience with the McIntosh MHA100>hd800. In addition, I was blown away with the front to back holography of the stage. There is one track where I could actually "see" how the vocalist was pretty much sitting in the bass players lap (live performance, supper club, very small stage. It was one of those "you-are-there" experiences we all strive for with our gear.
> 
> I have a question for those here with experience of uber$$ amps:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Heres the thing, when it stops being "just a headphone amplifier" then it will be the right time for you to maybe pull the trigger (not to be sarcastic either, merely friendly advice) otherwise the ugly sense of buyers remorse may start to creep in.
  
 As far as the MHA-100 goes it has a strong following no doubt, have'nt heard one personally but for me the deal breaker on such a piece would be the lack of balanced outs.  From all accounts though those that own one seem to really love it.
  
 As far as price point correlating with a "3D playback" experience or lack there of, not sure if you can really slice it like that.  The honest truth of the matter what I've noticed is that the higher up the ladder you go the more natural sounding and effortless a pair of headphones can sound.
  
 For the HD-800 this means showcasing what its really capable of. 
  
 Besides, once you've hung around here long enough with the rest of us nutters a decent headphone amp becomes a life priority


----------



## cuiter23

Let me just say how jealous I am of people who own the HDVD800 balanced with the HD800.
  
 I don't think I need to hear a different pair of headphones in my life.


----------



## EllieFreckles

Hi everyone,

 Wanted to first apologize for not replying sooner. Had some family emergency come up, so had to deal with that (everything is okay, phew). So yeah, I'm reading through all the replies now. I just wanted to thank everyone for being so welcoming and kind. For all the advice and not chewing me out for my stupid questions. I really appreciate your guys patience, and allowing me to ask my question in a High End forum.
  
 I have never heard of the Chord Mojo, but I'm definitely interested in checking it out since it's getting so much praise. It looks awesome. 
  
 I'll be honest, I'm kind of tempted to just stick with my Lyr and just get a Bifrost through Schiit. I hear those two pair decently. But I also see some people suggesting I go up to the Valhalla amp. So not sure. It seems I have a lot of options for a "detour" "decent" set up to hold me over for 3 years, until I can afford to properly jump in for a higher end DAC/AMP. It seems like my Lyr amp isn't all that bad.
  
 But yeah, I'm going to look into the Chord Mojo and Bifrost. And then either keep my Lyr and pair them with either of those, or look into a new amp. If I do go with a new AMP, what would u guys recommend with the Chord Mojo? Or is the Mojo okay with the Lyr given I'm just using this as an in between set up for 3 years? 

 EDIT: Oh wow, that Chord Mojo is an amp too! Can it really drive a 300 ohm cans like the HD800? Or are you guys pairing it with an amp too? Sorry if I'm not understanding what it does. 
  


sysfail said:


> I have the Valhalla 2 (rolled with Amperex Bugle Boy tubes) + Bifrost Multibit, you could probably make it around ~$800 if you buy used and ~$1000 brand new. This setup is absolutely stellar to me with the HD800, I don't have a desire to upgrade to anything else, it's basically my end game setup. Probably the best setup you can get under 1k for the HD800. Definitely take a look into it!


  
 Oh wow this is so tempting. I actually have that Omega stand too. My HD800 is on them now. I am seriously considering this set up now. Vahalla + Bifrost Multi. And it actually seems reasonable price wise. I could prob stretch and spend around $1500 in 3 months time. So if I can get everything you have, then maybe I could aim for that. Thanks for giving me something to chew on. <3


----------



## Hansotek

Yeah, EllieFreckles, I can confirm Bimby as a nice upgrade for the HD800 on the DAC front. You can get some decent upgrades to the Lyr through tube rolling. I find the Telefunken E88cc tubes from upscale are very smooth with the HD800. Honestly though, the Lyr is pretty limiting in terms of resolution. If you happen upon a Cavalli Liquid Carbon on the For Sale forum, snatch it up, grab a balanced cable and save for a DAC upgrade down the line. I think that's your best option, and the one I would wholeheartedly recommend based on my experience.

The middle road option is opting to build a bottle head crack + speedball, grab a used Bifrost and upgrade to the Multibit board a couple months from now.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I haven't heard Valhalla, but if you have the stomach for Mjolnir 2, that would really take the Multifrost to the next level (LISST is cool, but the stock tubes are cheaper and I prefer their euphony to the rigor of solid state). You would have to add in the cost of a balanced cable to get the advantages of balanced sound, but the HD800 scale remarkably well when you enter balanced territory. That's what I would do with 1500, at any rate.


----------



## EllieFreckles

hansotek said:


> Yeah, @EllieFreckles, I can confirm Bimby as a nice upgrade for the HD800 on the DAC front. You can get some decent upgrades to the Lyr through tube rolling. I find the Telefunken E88cc tubes from upscale are very smooth with the HD800. Honestly though, the Lyr is pretty limiting in terms of resolution. If you happen upon a Cavalli Liquid Carbon on the For Sale forum, snatch it up, grab a balanced cable and save for a DAC upgrade down the line. I think that's your best option, and the one I would wholeheartedly recommend based on my experience.
> 
> The middle road option is opting to build a bottle head crack + speedball, grab a used Bifrost and upgrade to the Multibit board a couple months from now.


 
  
 Thanks!
  
 Question, I have the first Lyr model. I keep getting recommends to get Vahalla 2 + Bifrost. The Lyr 2 is more than the Vahalla 2. Is Valhalla 2 better than the Lyr I have? Or is it a downgrade?
  
 Also as a side note, I'm also looking at the Chord Mojo. Doesn't look like Amazon is officially selling it or fulfilling it. All the prices on Amazon are $630 + and it looks like shipping is pushed way back till March. Is there any place that is legit, that sells it for the base price, and will ship it soon? I'm kind of hesitant going on Ebay. I see Moon Audio has it for sale:
  
 http://www.moon-audio.com/chord-mojo-dac-headphone-amp.html
  
 They are legit right? I'm still leaning more towards Schiit, just weighing my options (since I'm looking into the Chord Mojo now).


----------



## Hansotek

elliefreckles said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, [@=/u/444214/EllieFreckles]@EllieFreckles[/@], I can confirm Bimby as a nice upgrade for the HD800 on the DAC front. You can get some decent upgrades to the Lyr through tube rolling. I find the Telefunken E88cc tubes from upscale are very smooth with the HD800. Honestly though, the Lyr is pretty limiting in terms of resolution. If you happen upon a Cavalli Liquid Carbon on the For Sale forum, snatch it up, grab a balanced cable and save for a DAC upgrade down the line. I think that's your best option, and the one I would wholeheartedly recommend based on my experience.
> ...



Moon is legit. Schiit is WAY better at making DACs than amps. Haven't tried the Mojo. People I respect (quite a bit) keep endorsing it, so I may have to buy one soon.
(IMO, YMMV, etc.)


----------



## EllieFreckles

hansotek said:


> Moon is legit. Schiit is WAY better at making DACs than amps. Haven't tried the Mojo. People I respect (quite a bit) keep endorsing it, so I may have to buy one soon.
> (IMO, YMMV, etc.)


 
  

 Yeah, the praise for this is crazy. I keep reading site after site, review after review. It's almost too good to be true. I still am drawn more to the Schiit set up. Kind of a lame reason, but I think the Schiit + HD800 looks aesthetically pleasing. Would look amazing on my desktop. Plus I've looked Schiit stuff in the past. But I do see the value in the Mojo (especially from a portable aspect). And that price! I just keep reading people saying that its actually a great pair with the HD800 and that they find it better then some higher end DAC/AMPs. Hard to wrap my head around that.

 Thanks for letting me know Moon Audio is legit. Appreciate it. So yeah, I have a lot to think about now. You guys were seriously the best. Thanks so much.


----------



## cscales

elliefreckles said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> 
> Wanted to first apologize for not replying sooner. Had some family emergency come up, so had to deal with that (everything is okay, phew). So yeah, I'm reading through all the replies now. I just wanted to thank everyone for being so welcoming and kind. For all the advice and not chewing me out for my stupid questions. I really appreciate your guys patience, and allowing me to ask my question in a High End forum.
> ...




Hey, Ellie. I took my HD800 to a friend's place one night to audition the Mojo. Took about 3 seconds of the first song and I had to have one. Only the Mojo, no other amp. I too had dreamed of owning the famous Sennheiser hd800, and it finally sounded the way I had always imagined it would.

I have a decent full size rig, vinyl, the whole nine yards, worth about 15k new. When I can't listen because the kids are sleeping or whatever, I put on the Senn's with the Mojo only, or use the Mojo as a dac with my modest tube desktop head amp. I do not miss the big rig.

But here's the thing. I needed a portable, so the Mojo suited me. This isn't necessarily the case for you., and I can't comment on the quality of the Schiit products. Better than the Mojo? Don't know. Maybe you want to roll tubes later? Get the Schiit. Want to avoid that temptation? Get the Mojo. See? Lots to think about.

One thing I can tell you. My desktop amp is worth about 1k. I added 2 highly regarded NOS tubes worth $400. Adding the Mojo to that setup improves the SQ, just to give you an idea of the relative quality of the Mojo. 

But, if God herself vouched for the price/performance ratio of the Mojo, you would still have other things to consider before pulling the trigger


----------



## EllieFreckles

cscales said:


> But here's the thing. I needed a portable, so the Mojo suited me. This isn't necessarily the case for you., and I can't comment on the quality of the Schiit products. Better than the Mojo? Don't know. Maybe you want to roll tubes later? Get the Schiit. Want to avoid that temptation? Get the Mojo. See? Lots to think about.
> 
> One thing I can tell you. My desktop amp is worth about 1k. I added 2 highly regarded NOS tubes worth $400. Adding the Mojo to that setup improves the SQ, just to give you an idea of the relative quality of the Mojo.
> 
> But, if God herself vouched for the price/performance ratio of the Mojo, you would still have other things to consider before pulling the trigger


 
  
 Cheers. The Mojo is def tempting since I'm using an E17 DAC. And my original idea was to have an $800 budget to get an "inbetween" set up. Basically, not endgame, but something to hold me over for the next 2-3 years. I'm almost willing to give the Mojo a shot, and it it sounds much better then my current Lyr/ E17 set up, that totally might be the perfect thing to hold me over for 3 years. What's crazy is, a lot of people aren't even viewing the Mojo that way, because they say it's THAT good.

 So it's def something I want to try now. It really sounds amazing.


----------



## lukeap69

elliefreckles said:


> Cheers. The Mojo is def tempting since I'm using an E17 DAC. And my original idea was to have an $800 budget to get an "inbetween" set up. Basically, not endgame, but something to hold me over for the next 2-3 years. I'm almost willing to give the Mojo a shot, and it it sounds much better then my current Lyr/ E17 set up, that totally might be the perfect thing to hold me over for 3 years. What's crazy is, a lot of people aren't even viewing the Mojo that way, because they say it's THAT good.
> 
> So it's def something I want to try now. It really sounds amazing.


 
 I have a Mojo and Lyr2 with Amperex OG. For me, Mojo is 'okay' with the HD800 but I prefer Audio-gd DAC-19 + Lyr 2 instead. Since you have Lyr, another option for you perhaps is to check out the DAC-19. Then in future you can save up for a 'better' amp. Of course, all are IMO.
  
 PS - I have always maintained that when my Lyr 2 was paired with my DS DAC like Audio-gd NFB-1DAC, I didn't quite appreciate the combo. But with DAC-19, my opinion of Lyr 2 had changed (positively.) YMMV.


----------



## Hansotek

Lol! I know the feeling cscales, it took me about the same amount of time to fall in love with the Cavalli sound. I remember it so clearly... Plugging the HE1000 into the Liquid Spark prototype... Hearing the air in the room like never before... And then I heard that first bass impact... I could swear my heart stopped for a few seconds. And I hadn't even touched the Liquid Crimson or Gold yet. 

So yeah, I know the feeling well. When you say something similar about the Mojo, I feel like I have to know now! I'd really like to try it, but unless somebody has one at the next Chicago meet, I might just buy it. I gotta know!


----------



## sheldaze

Mojo _is_ that good, but the sound is not for everyone.
  
 That is, the technique used by the Chord proprietary FPGA conversion from digital to analog is not the same as the Audio-gd DAC-19 or the Schiit Multibit DACs. You cannot compare or contrast the two simply. I highly recommend a listen, especially with your own cans. I had a person at a recent meet prefer the Schiit Fulla over the Chord Mojo - the difference is that dramatic.
  
 I like the Mojo. I have used Mojo as a DAC, but prefer it directly into my headphones. I works quite well on many of my headphones, but not to my ears on my HD800.
  
 This is definitely a case of _you_ must have a listen.


----------



## mrmarano

elliefreckles said:


> Hey guys, I'm new here.
> 
> Hopefully this is the right thread to ask this. If not, I'll edit my post (I apologize). I recently got the HD800. Been dreaming about getting them ever since they first were released. The money was finally right, and so was the timing. So I grabbed one for my birthday/christmas gift. But I made the classic mistake of not having the proper equipment to drive them (so I bought the headphone first, rather than the set up to properly use them). I know, really stupid. I guess I've just been dreaming about them for so long, I let it finally get the better of me. (I actually cried when I finally got them).


 
  
 No, not stupid. Given Sennheiser raised the price at least 2x since their release, you may have saved yourself some money in the long run.


----------



## EllieFreckles

sheldaze said:


> Mojo _is_ that good, but the sound is not for everyone.
> 
> That is, the technique used by the Chord proprietary FPGA conversion from digital to analog is not the same as the Audio-gd DAC-19 or the Schiit Multibit DACs. You cannot compare or contrast the two simply. I highly recommend a listen, especially with your own cans. I had a person at a recent meet prefer the Schiit Fulla over the Chord Mojo - the difference is that dramatic.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Ah. Unfortunately I have no place to check them out (no hi-fi shops near me, and I would have to wait for the next Headphone convention and drive 4 hours to it). And Amazon isn't selling it (so no 30 day return). Hmm. I'll have to think on this. The more I read about the Chord Mojo, the more it seems like THE perfect thing for me. SO many people are praising its sound, and saying it actually drives and pairs well with the HD800. But interesting that you think it pairs well with a lot of other headphones, and not the HD800.
  
 I think my bias is obviously with Schiit, because I've  had the Lyr for 3 years or so now. And I like how it sounds. Hell, I even like the way it sounds with my HD800 with an E17. But it's one of those things where, I'm a casual audiophile. And I haven't had other DAC/AMPS to really compare. So not having that comparison, means I don't really know how much better the HD800 could really sound. I've always heard they scaled a lot depending on set up. I just figured my E17 and Lyr were not a good pair, so I wanted like an inbetween decent set up for around $800, and then that would hold me over for 3 years until I could afford really nice DAC/AMP that pairs well with the HD800. 
  
 I think at this point, I'm leaning towards just getting the Bifrost Multi, and either keeping my Lyr, or going with Valhalla 2 over my Lyr. I'm looking at this from the point of view, that this will be a temporary set up to hold me over, and not endgame. But all the praise and reviews of the Mojo is tempting me to try that. But given I don't have a way to try it out....
  
 Dumb question. But do you think the Mojo would sound better than the Lyr/E17 set up I currently have? I say dumb, because I know it's subjective. SO if it's a case of, I need to just hear for myself, then you don't have to answer that question.


----------



## sheldaze

elliefreckles said:


> Ah. Unfortunately I have no place to check them out (no hi-fi shops near me, and I would have to wait for the next Headphone convention and drive 4 hours to it). And Amazon isn't selling it (so no 30 day return). Hmm. I'll have to think on this. The more I read about the Chord Mojo, the more it seems like THE perfect thing for me. SO many people are praising its sound, and saying it actually drives and pairs well with the HD800. But interesting that you think it pairs well with a lot of other headphones, and not the HD800.
> 
> I think my bias is obviously with Schiit, because I've  had the Lyr for 3 years or so now. And I like how it sounds. Hell, I even like the way it sounds with my HD800 with an E17. But it's one of those things where, I'm a casual audiophile. And I haven't had other DAC/AMPS to really compare. So not having that comparison, means I don't really know how much better the HD800 could really sound. I've always heard they scaled a lot depending on set up. I just figured my E17 and Lyr were not a good pair, so I wanted like an inbetween decent set up for around $800, and then that would hold me over for 3 years until I could afford really nice DAC/AMP that pairs well with the HD800.
> 
> ...


 
 I think your plan, getting the Bifrost Multi, is a good path forward. One of the local guys uses it and a Lyr 2. He recently purchased an HD800 and said the pairing was great! It's probably one of the most versatile setups available.
  
 I have not heard the E17 - but after hearing the 3 flavors of Multi from Schiit, I'm done with DACs. More specifically, all the non-Multi DACs that I plan to keep are for one reason only - mobility.


----------



## cscales

hansotek said:


> Lol! I know the feeling cscales, it took me about the same amount of time to fall in love with the Cavalli sound. I remember it so clearly... Plugging the HE1000 into the Liquid Spark prototype... Hearing the air in the room like never before... And then I heard that first bass impact... I could swear my heart stopped for a few seconds. And I hadn't even touched the Liquid Crimson or Gold yet.
> 
> So yeah, I know the feeling well. When you say something similar about the Mojo, I feel like I have to know now! I'd really like to try it, but unless somebody has one at the next Chicago meet, I might just buy it. I gotta know!




Mojo-Cavalli combo!?!?! I found your post in the Spark thread. I wish I could justify going to those meets, sounds awesome! 

Here's my issue presently: I love my Mojo. It is "natural sounding and effortless" (thanks Mortalcoil for a good turn of phrase) to my relatively inexperienced ears. But... I have a "problem".

I recently heard a McIntosh MHA100 with my HD800. Now I know what natural and effortless REALLY sounds like. There is a full on 3D effect with that amp. What else do you call it when the bass player is only 2 feet behind the vocalist and each has such a clearly defined sense of space that you can "see" the positioning? I know what it sounds like when the drum kit is at the back of a 30 ft stage and the vocalist is front and center, many amps do that well, but the resolution of the McIntosh was on a whole other level.

I don't get this with the Mojo listening to the same song. And I want it! 

For various reasons the McIntosh is out of the question. So, with the Mojo and McIntosh as 2 reference points for discussion, I am looking for comments from people who have heard and lust for that kind of holographic playback and have heard amps that are perhaps a little more reasonably priced than the McIntosh.

To be clear, I love the Mojo to death with my Senn's but it doesn't do what the McIntosh does. How far up the food chain do I need to go? I can't be flipping amps and absorbing the losses as I go. Any definite recommendations from anyone who can relate specifically to the holographic qualities of an amp?


----------



## JamieMcC

cscales said:


> What else do you call it when the bass player is only 2 feet behind the vocalist and each has such a clearly defined sense of space that you can "see" the positioning?


 
  
 Once you get a taste for Summit fi its hard to go back.


----------



## Hansotek

jamiemcc said:


> cscales said:
> 
> 
> > What else do you call it when the bass player is only 2 feet behind the vocalist and each has such a clearly defined sense of space that you can "see" the positioning?
> ...


 
  
 Yep. Sorry @cscales, you're kinda screwed.


----------



## cscales

sheldaze said:


> I think your plan, getting the Bifrost Multi, is a good path forward. One of the local guys uses it and a Lyr 2. He recently purchased an HD800 and said the pairing was great! It's probably one of the most versatile setups available.
> 
> I have not heard the E17 - but after hearing the 3 flavors of Multi from Schiit, I'm done with DACs. More specifically, all the non-Multi DACs that I plan to keep are for one reason only - mobility.




+1 to that idea. 

I can relate, Ellie. We seem to be mostly at the same point in our Headgear journey, so I just wanted to add: 

One useful OBJECTIVE measure of worth (as opposed to subjective qualities like SQ) is how much talk a product generates. Some threads here top out at 40 or 140 posts then...nothing. Look at the HD800; 21000+!! 

Same for Chord and Schiit products. Lots of buzz. What this means for me and thee is we can feel OK about taking the plunge because down the road (yah, 6 months from now) someone will want our used gear, no problem. We can afford to take the loss once or twice, at least, right? 

Hope that makes deciding easier. Good luck on the journey!


----------



## cscales

hansotek said:


> Yep. Sorry @cscales
> , you're kinda screwed.




LOL! Thanks, guys. Big help you are...


----------



## Fearless1

jamiemcc said:


> Once you get a taste for Summit fi its hard to go back.




Unfortunately, this is so true.


----------



## Mortalcoil

cscales said:


> I am looking for comments from people who have heard and lust for that kind of holographic playback and have heard amps that are perhaps a little more reasonably priced than the McIntosh.
> 
> To be clear, I love the Mojo to death with my Senn's but it doesn't do what the McIntosh does. How far up the food chain do I need to go? I can't be flipping amps and absorbing the losses as I go. Any definite recommendations from anyone who can relate specifically to the holographic qualities of an amp?


 
  
  
 Look into the Bryston BHA-1.  A great value no nonsense amp with a 20 year warranty, balanced, and plays nice with the 800.
  
 It offers a taste of the "holographicness" you are looking for.
  
 Its on the leaner side of things as far as sound sigs go, but it has plenty of power and snap.  Its a very prescice sounding amp (hesitant to say analytical).


----------



## JamieMcC

cscales said:


> For various reasons the McIntosh is out of the question. So, with the Mojo and McIntosh as 2 reference points for discussion, I am looking for comments from people who have heard and lust for that kind of holographic playback and have heard amps that are perhaps a little more reasonably priced than the McIntosh.
> 
> To be clear, I love the Mojo to death with my Senn's but it doesn't do what the McIntosh does. How far up the food chain do I need to go? I can't be flipping amps and absorbing the losses as I go. Any definite recommendations from anyone who can relate specifically to the holographic qualities of an amp?


 
  
 It would take something pretty special to see me part with my Bottlehead Mainline a Tricked out DNA Stratus would be top of the wish list but that's hard for me to justify at nearly three times the cost of the Mainline.


----------



## cscales

jamiemcc said:


> It would take something pretty special to see me part with my Bottlehead Mainline a Tricked out DNA Stratus would be top of the wish list but that's hard for me to justify at nearly three times the cost of the Mainline.




There's a Mainline for sale on CAM, all tricked out. The seller goes into a lot of detail about his mods, but it's over my head. 

Thanks to Mortalcoil also for the Bryston recommendation. I see lots of talk about that one. One poster likes it better than the Auralic Taurus mk2 and the Headamp Gsx mk2. This will keep me busy for awhile. Thanks!


----------



## Hansotek

cscales said:


> One useful OBJECTIVE measure of worth (as opposed to subjective qualities like SQ) is how much talk a product generates. Some threads here top out at 40 or 140 posts then...nothing. Look at the HD800; 21000+!!
> 
> Same for Chord and Schiit products. Lots of buzz. What this means for me and thee is we can feel OK about taking the plunge because down the road (yah, 6 months from now) someone will want our used gear, no problem. We can afford to take the loss once or twice, at least, right?
> 
> Hope that makes deciding easier. Good luck on the journey!


 
  
 That would seem reasonable, but unfortunately, it's not really true in practice. Chord and Schitt have exceptionally sophisticated marketing and merchandising strategies (take it from me, I work at an ad agency). Understand that this doesn't mean that they are deceptive, or their is some kind of trickery involved (good marketing should never be that), rather, it means that they understand: 

 1.) Who they are.
 2.) Who their audience is.
 3.) How to align their product with what their audience wants.
 4.) And how to communicate that to their audience.
  
 Think about the following (I'll use Schiit as the example): Have you ever noticed how Schitt's product pricing model fits into such nice, precise little tiers? Magni is $70 more than Fulla. Asgard is $70 more than Magni. Valhalla is $100 more than Asgard, Lyr is $100 more than Valhalla... drop three hundred or so on a nice set of tubes (very easy to do) and the Lyr starts getting up to $750, which is... guess what... $100 less than Mjolnir. They have planned your entire upgrade path for you!
  
 Jason is (coming from a copywriter, by trade) an excellent copywriter. Their brand drips with attitude and and the guy is funny as heck. Have you ever read their website FAQ's? They are hilarious. And he does a great job of educating people on products. Before Yiggy came out, the folks talking about R2R multibit DACs were limited to a tiny group of Summit-fi'ers in a dark corner of Head-fi. Now, not only does virtually everyone know what R2R is, THEY ALL WANT IT! And guess who cornered the market? Schiit. Sure AGD has a few R2R products, and yada, yada, yada - but for the most part, Schiit is the only game in town.
  
 And lastly, there is Stoddard's book (which is an outstanding read), published chapter-by-chapter on Head-fi. It serves as a wonderful way to humanize their brand to their audience. People know the whole backstory on the company... it's almost like you have a little part of it, too. And when people comment, he answers back!
  
 It's not a conspiracy. It's not a scam. It's just being really, really good at business. And everybody is talking about them, which is exactly what is supposed to happen. You work your butt off and build these channels so your audience is talking about you, and with you, and about your products... and recommending those products to other people. It's textbook.
  
 But also realize that the sound quality of their product is somewhat independent of that. I'm not saying their products are bad, they most certainly are not. But winning the popularity contest and having the best sounding product don't necessarily go hand-in-hand. If possible, always judge with your ears. They alone hold the truth.


----------



## cscales

hansotek said:


> That would seem reasonable, but unfortunately, it's not really true in practice. Chord and Schitt have exceptionally sophisticated marketing and merchandising strategies (take it from me, I work at an ad agency). Understand that this doesn't mean that they are deceptive, or their is some kind of trickery involved (good marketing should never be that), rather, it means that they understand:
> 
> 
> 1.) Who they are.
> ...




Hansotek, well put. You're not a bad writer yourself. +1 to everything you wrote. A well-oiled marketing machine is something to be wary of certainly. 

Fortunately a forum like Head Fi is a great resource, enabling smart enthusiasts to filter out the hype surrounding any product. I can think of at least a couple recent products that sounded like the second coming judging from reviews, but ended up amounting to nothing much after Head Fi'ers got through with them.

To your comments I would like to add: a certain amount of JUSTIFIABLE hype is actually a benefit to us Audiophools. Our used Chord and Schiit gear will tend not to gather dust. It certainly helps that these two companies seem to actually walk the walk, and not just talk the talk. Being "slick" is OK as long as it's not just snake oil. Good chat!

By the by, you still have not chimed in with an amp suggestion. What else have you heard lately at meets?

Cheers!


----------



## joshk4

elliefreckles said:


> Yeah, the praise for this is crazy. I keep reading site after site, review after review. It's almost too good to be true. I still am drawn more to the Schiit set up. Kind of a lame reason, but I think the Schiit + HD800 looks aesthetically pleasing. Would look amazing on my desktop. Plus I've looked Schiit stuff in the past. But I do see the value in the Mojo (especially from a portable aspect). And that price! I just keep reading people saying that its actually a great pair with the HD800 and that they find it better then some higher end DAC/AMPs. Hard to wrap my head around that.




Mojo is really great and I'm using it as a portable for iem. 

But the combination of Mojo + hd 800 still can't beat Hdvd 800 + hd 800. This is my own opinion though.


----------



## Hansotek

cscales, thanks. Amp recommendations always depend on budget and desired sound. From a general standpoint, I can tell you that this is the route I would go at some pretty common price points:

< $500 - Bottlehead Crack + Speedball
< $1000 - Cavalli Liquid Carbon
< $1500 - Questyle CMA800R
< $2000 - Cavalli Liquid Crimson @ show special price
< $3000 - DNA Stratus 
< $4000 - Cavalli Liquid Gold

Subjectively, of the stuff on that list, the Crimson and Stratus are my favorites. The Crimson is still a steal, even at full price.


----------



## listen4joy

How crismon compare to stratus?


----------



## shabta

hansotek said:


> @cscales, thanks. Amp recommendations always depend on budget and desired sound. From a general standpoint, I can tell you that this is the route I would go at some pretty common price points:
> 
> < $500 - Bottlehead Crack + Speedball
> < $1000 - Cavalli Liquid Carbon
> ...


 
 Add the Icon Audio Hp8 Mkii. It's a much more expensive in the US, than over here. But I liked it better than the crack. It gives a lot of the holograohic sound of some of the high-end tube amps with maybe a hair less resolution than the very best. The punch down low is impressive, making the HD800s sound a wee bit warmer and bassier. Of course you have to chuck the stock tubes, but you can easily best them for not so much money.


----------



## MickeyVee

You can have it all!
 Now that I have a speaker system on my desk, I don't know what I did without it.  Having a dual duty system, TOTL HP amp/DAC/speaker amp + speakers has ruined me.  Totally enjoying the setup and am at my end game 
  
 Quote:


zoom25 said:


> I'm tempted to get an end game amp for HD 800 and just be done with a finalized headphone system, but at the same time now thinking of getting decent mid sized monitors for desktop use, like the Focal 6s...decisions, decisions.


----------



## MickeyVee

I went through the same thing.  Given my upgraditis, changing system every 3-6 months and considering the spending and losses, I ended up with the McIntosh.  Figured I'd be there eventually so just bit the bullet.  I got a great deal at the 2014 TAVES show so I handed over my credit card, closed my eyes and went for it.  No more upgraditis and wanting.  I sold of ALL my extraneous stuff and am down to a one HP system. No looking back.
  
 If you love the Mc, maybe wait for a deal or look for used.  Some have already been coming up used.
  
 Quote:


cscales said:


> For various reasons the McIntosh is out of the question. So, with the Mojo and McIntosh as 2 reference points for discussion, I am looking for comments from people who have heard and lust for that kind of holographic playback and have heard amps that are perhaps a little more reasonably priced than the McIntosh.
> 
> To be clear, I love the Mojo to death with my Senn's but it doesn't do what the McIntosh does. How far up the food chain do I need to go? I can't be flipping amps and absorbing the losses as I go. Any definite recommendations from anyone who can relate specifically to the holographic qualities of an amp?


----------



## Hansotek

listen4joy said:


> How crismon compare to stratus?



I haven't been able to compare them head-to-head, but I'd be very hard-pressed to say one is better than the other. The regular MSRP on both is basically the same, and they both represent a significant value at just under $3k.

I can tell you what stands out about them, though. 

The DNA Stratus really stands out in the mids. Vocals on the Stratus are quite possibly the best I have heard. Just so incredibly emotional and engaging. It is ultra romantic sounding, but at the same time, very crisp clear and detailed. 

The Cavalli Liquid Crimson stands out to me for its insanely detailed treble and spectacularly impactful bass. I mean, that amp makes headphones do things you didn't know they could. As with all the Cavalli amps, the spirit of rock n' roll is very strong in this one!

You can't go wrong with either. They are really two of the very best of the best.


----------



## jjacq

I have the Mjolnir 2 right now for the HD800 and I have recently try the 74 reflektors but it was a bit veiled. I was wondering if anyone has other suggestions when it comes to tubes for the HD800, my HD800 is Anax modded as well.


----------



## cuiter23

joshk4 said:


> Mojo is really great and I'm using it as a portable for iem.
> 
> But the combination of Mojo + hd 800 still can't beat Hdvd 800 + hd 800. This is my own opinion though.


 
  
 Oh yea, no way the Mojo comes close to the HDVD800.


----------



## Zoom25

mickeyvee said:


> You can have it all!
> Now that I have a speaker system on my desk, I don't know what I did without it.  Having a dual duty system, TOTL HP amp/DAC/speaker amp + speakers has ruined me.  Totally enjoying the setup and am at my end game


 
 I'm going the speakers route. I have monitors on all my floors, except the study room where I have my headphone system. Until now I didn't bother with speakers in that room because of acoustics and the fact its a smaller sized room. So I spent the last 2 days moving and reassembling stuff to bring in monitors in to that room as well. Its a lot more suited for speakers now. Now just to get some Isoacoustic stands and monitors. Thinking Focal solo 6 or Genelec 8040. Cant go any bigger unfortunately for that room and space. Will keep HD 800 for late night.


----------



## Moonhead

Listen to Genelec 8040 two days ago and they are bass Heavy and somewhat Muddy sounding next to AVI from uk, IMO.


----------



## ubs28

cuiter23 said:


> Oh yea, no way the Mojo comes close to the HDVD800.


 

 The Mojo doesn't even sound as good as the Chord Hugo.


----------



## ubs28

hansotek said:


> @cscales, thanks. Amp recommendations always depend on budget and desired sound. From a general standpoint, I can tell you that this is the route I would go at some pretty common price points:
> 
> < $500 - Bottlehead Crack + Speedball
> < $1000 - Cavalli Liquid Carbon
> ...


 
  
 How is the Taurus MKII in comparison to a DNA status or Cavalli Liquid Gold? Are they much better?


----------



## cscales

MickeyVee, what path amp wise did you follow leading up to the McIntosh?


----------



## MickeyVee

Take a look at my gallery. It's pretty much all there in pictures.  Basically, Schiit {Bifrost Uber, Lyr with lots of tubes, Vali}, Woo {WA7 & WA6}, Naim DAC-V1 {which I still have, use and love but it's in my main AV system now - way under rated but see Jude's review in the Buyers Guide} and then the major jump to the McIntosh.
  
 Quote:


cscales said:


> MickeyVee, what path amp wise did you follow leading up to the McIntosh?


----------



## Hansotek

ubs28 said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > [@=/u/418728/cscales]@cscales[/@], thanks. Amp recommendations always depend on budget and desired sound. From a general standpoint, I can tell you that this is the route I would go at some pretty common price points:
> ...




I've spent a total of maybe 15 minutes with the Taurus. I don't really have enough experience with it to offer any real comparative value. I remember liking it and thinking it was less dry than some people make it out to be, but that's about it. Sorry!


----------



## Sorrodje

mickeyvee said:


>


 
  
 I've the Naim V1 on loan those last days and Indeed it"s very good. I'm really surprised. Clean and clear , detailed but not boring or ungaging. very nice pairing with my HD800/HD800S.


----------



## Mortalcoil

sorrodje said:


> mickeyvee said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 

 The VI is indeed a nice piece of kit.  Used as a DAC only its really something special also IMO,  the way Naim implemented the BB1791A is nothing short of astounding not to mention the fact that it utilizes one of Naims stellar power supplies.
  
 Definately underated around here.
  
 I'm hanging onto mine (not selling), running it through the 430HA as I type this (fixed mode).  Has an energy to it thats addicting and detailed all the while mainatining a non digital glare / harshness to it.
  
 Admittedly though Ive always had a soft spot for Naim.


----------



## MickeyVee

Why the latest firmware update, the Naim DAC V1 now does DSD though I don't have any files to test it.  Also, it's supposed to sound better overall.  Worth installing it.
  
 Quote:


mortalcoil said:


>


----------



## Sorrodje

Yup. never paid attention to that Naim V1 but you can consider me as impressed. Vivid/clear/detailed yet not harsh . Good soundstage  and very engaging - maybe not what I could call "natural sounding" but it eats easily a hugo for diner. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . Sincerely I didnt know the price when I received that beast but when I discovered it , i wasn't that surprised to be honest. 
  
 Not for people who want warm/gooey stuff for their HD800 though.


----------



## Mortalcoil

mickeyvee said:


> Why the latest firmware update, the Naim DAC V1 now does DSD though I don't have any files to test it.  Also, it's supposed to sound better overall.  Worth installing it.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 

  Very true M.V....if you recall I sent you an IM back in Dec mentioning the 1.16 update with the DSD support now added lol.
  
 I am enjoyng the recent update and agree it does offer a better "window" into the music.  Although there are still a few detractrors on the Naim forums who appreciate the older 1.6 firmware still.
  
 FWIW check out http://bluecoastmusic.com/free-downloads for some slightly more obscure artists in DSD format.  Great way to sample some of the V1's new feature set without spending $$


----------



## Mortalcoil

sorrodje said:


> Yup. never paid attention to that Naim V1 but you can consider me as impressed. Vivid/clear/detailed yet not harsh . Good soundstage  and very engaging - maybe not what I could call "natural sounding" but it eats easily a hugo for diner.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  Good to hear you are enjoying it.


----------



## Taowolf51

My stock cable accumulated some damage on the left channel right after the headphone connector causing it to crackle when moved (wish Senn used better stress relief near the connectors). I ended up picking up a Cardas Clear Light as a replacement. No sound quality comments, since the Senn cable was partially broken. The Cardas cable is thinner yet less flexible than the Senn cable, but doesn't make the mistake Senn made and is fabric coated along the entire cable (the rubber on the upper part of the senn cable split a little, causing the issue). The upper part is very thin, which isn't ideal (I do worry about having this issue again, HD800 cables are stupidly expensive), but since I paid half the price of a new stock HD800 cable, I'm pretty happy with it. 
  
 Anyone else using cardas cables? What are your thoughts?


----------



## rawrster

taowolf51 said:


> My stock cable accumulated some damage on the left channel right after the headphone connector causing it to crackle when moved (wish Senn used better stress relief near the connectors). I ended up picking up a Cardas Clear Light as a replacement. No sound quality comments, since the Senn cable was partially broken. The Cardas cable is thinner yet less flexible than the Senn cable, but doesn't make the mistake Senn made and is fabric coated along the entire cable (the rubber on the upper part of the senn cable split a little, causing the issue). The upper part is very thin, which isn't ideal (I do worry about having this issue again, HD800 cables are stupidly expensive), but since I paid half the price of a new stock HD800 cable, I'm pretty happy with it.
> 
> Anyone else using cardas cables? What are your thoughts?


 
  
 I have a Cardas cable from c3 audio. It's not as flexible as I would have liked but has held up in terms of build quality. I don't recall the stock cable being that bad in terms of build quality (but pretty bad in terms of tangling and such) the first time I owned them when I used the stock cable. I'd probably go with another cable if I had to do it over again due to the flexibility but I don't use the HD800 enough to warrant another cable purchase.


----------



## deserat

elliefreckles said:


> Hey guys, I'm new here.
> 
> Hopefully this is the right thread to ask this. If not, I'll edit my post (I apologize). I recently got the HD800. Been dreaming about getting them ever since they first were released. The money was finally right, and so was the timing. So I grabbed one for my birthday/christmas gift. But I made the classic mistake of not having the proper equipment to drive them (so I bought the headphone first, rather than the set up to properly use them). I know, really stupid. I guess I've just been dreaming about them for so long, I let it finally get the better of me. (I actually cried when I finally got them).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think going  to the Magni + Modi would be a downgrade from what you have. At least in for the AMP stage.  The Lyr is no slouch as an AMP on your budget. Given that you plan a major upgrade in at some point, I think you'd do well to leave that in the chain.  As many people have noted, just roll the tubes. The stock tubes that come in Schiit products are just enough to get you going, putting some good tubes in greatly enhances performance.  My fav are the Telefunken E88CC, though the Amperex Orange Globes are much cheaper and huge jump up from the the stock tubes. 

 I  it's also been suggested that you upgrade the DAC to the Bimby ( Schiit Bifrost Multibit ). I would second that. It's a pretty major step up from the Fiio DAC ( I have the x5ii  and the Bimby is much clearer, especially when there is alot of intruments in the music ). Orange Globes ( $120 - $150 ) +  Bimby ( $699 )  is near  to your budget. If the budget needs to be under $800 the Bifrost Uber is also very nice and might allow you to get some Telefunkens.  If you are planning a major upgrade in the future you may find that you don't need to upgrade from the Bimby, that's an endgame DAC for alot of people.


----------



## Kyle 491

Just got my HD800S a few hours ago, and comparing it to my existing HD800. So far, it doesn't seem like a true upgrade, merely yet another side-grade. Air is traded off with the reduced treble and fatigue, bass is more perceptible due to reduced treble but not any more impactful. Massed vocals, especially female, just do not sound as compelling as on the stock HD800, a bit muted & distant and lacking energy. Instrument timbres for violins and cellos are a bit richer & fuller. I can listen to more poorly recorded material without wincing, but it isn't engaging, doesn't have that soaring, thrilling contrast between highs and lows.
  
 The HD800 is to me a pretty laid back headphone on most studio recorded music with moments of excitement, now with the reduced treble of the HD800S and the mids remaining unaffected placement-wise, they sound almost boring. I prefer the HD800 at the moment by quite a bit.


----------



## yates7592

Interesting observations, glad I held back for now! Just wondered, you only had them for a few hours; so the can's and cable are not burnt in yet?


----------



## sysfail

kyle 491 said:


> Just got my HD800S a few hours ago, and comparing it to my existing HD800. So far, it doesn't seem like a true upgrade, merely yet another side-grade. Air is traded off with the reduced treble and fatigue, bass is more perceptible due to reduced treble but not any more impactful. Massed vocals, especially female, just do not sound as compelling as on the stock HD800, a bit muted & distant and lacking energy. Instrument timbres for violins and cellos are a bit richer & fuller. I can listen to more poorly recorded material without wincing, but it isn't engaging, doesn't have that soaring, thrilling contrast between highs and lows.
> 
> The HD800 is to me a pretty laid back headphone on most studio recorded music with moments of excitement, now with the reduced treble of the HD800S and the mids remaining unaffected placement-wise, they sound almost boring. I prefer the HD800 at the moment by quite a bit.


 
  
 I need more impressions like this so I will be satisfied with my modded HD800 and won't want to get the HD800S.


----------



## Kyle 491

yates7592 said:


> Interesting observations, glad I held back for now! Just wondered, you only had them for a few hours; so the can's and cable are not burnt in yet?


 
 I suppose, however I'm not a great believer of burn-in, unless its brain burn in . For reference, the stock HD800 still zings my ears with its treble on the same old material I used to test them on the first day I got them.


----------



## Thenewguy007

kyle 491 said:


> Just got my HD800S a few hours ago, and comparing it to my existing HD800. So far, it doesn't seem like a true upgrade, merely yet another side-grade. Air is traded off with the reduced treble and fatigue, bass is more perceptible due to reduced treble but not any more impactful. Massed vocals, especially female, just do not sound as compelling as on the stock HD800, a bit muted & distant and lacking energy. Instrument timbres for violins and cellos are a bit richer & fuller. I can listen to more poorly recorded material without wincing, but it isn't engaging, doesn't have that soaring, thrilling contrast between highs and lows.
> 
> The HD800 is to me a pretty laid back headphone on most studio recorded music with moments of excitement, now with the reduced treble of the HD800S and the mids remaining unaffected placement-wise, they sound almost boring. I prefer the HD800 at the moment by quite a bit.


 
  
 I keep hearing that it either reduces the air a bit for an extra bit of bass or that there is no reduction & just an increase in bass/tamed treble.
 Maybe it's just that subtle?
  
 Btw what was your chain when using it?
 Icon Audio HP-8 mk2 or the Ragnarok?


----------



## MacedonianHero

thenewguy007 said:


> I keep hearing that it either reduces the air a bit for an extra bit of bass or that there is no reduction & just an increase in bass/tamed treble.
> Maybe it's just that subtle?
> 
> Btw what was your chain when using it?
> Icon Audio HP-8 mk2 or the Ragnarok?


 
 I never found a reduction in air...in fact it was thankfully unchanged in my setup. But the treble "fixing" made these headphones no longer an enigma for me.


----------



## shabta

macedonianhero said:


> I never found a reduction in air...in fact it was thankfully unchanged in my setup. But the treble "fixing" made these headphones no longer an enigma for me.


 
 I find some of what you write about the HD800 S perplexing. I seem to remember that you said several times that you sold off your HD800 some time ago, so perhaps that is the basis of why some of your statements about the S vs. classic are idiosyncratic. If you read comments about the S both here and on other forums, the difference is a lot about the airiness of the classic vs. the better behaved treble of the younger bro. This is not a subtle difference. In addition, the S images a little less precisely than the classic, that difference is subtle, but still quite noticeable. 
  
 Personally, speaking, I have now tried the S on a wide variety of amps and sources. I can say that while the S, like its older sibling, is sensitive to upstream gear (though a little less so), the basic differences between them remain.
  
 I am not trying to pick a fight, but I also respectfully and emphatically disagree with what you write here.


----------



## shabta

kyle 491 said:


> Just got my HD800S a few hours ago, and comparing it to my existing HD800. So far, it doesn't seem like a true upgrade, merely yet another side-grade. Air is traded off with the reduced treble and fatigue, bass is more perceptible due to reduced treble but not any more impactful. Massed vocals, especially female, just do not sound as compelling as on the stock HD800, a bit muted & distant and lacking energy. Instrument timbres for violins and cellos are a bit richer & fuller. I can listen to more poorly recorded material without wincing, but it isn't engaging, doesn't have that soaring, thrilling contrast between highs and lows.
> 
> The HD800 is to me a pretty laid back headphone on most studio recorded music with moments of excitement, now with the reduced treble of the HD800S and the mids remaining unaffected placement-wise, they sound almost boring. I prefer the HD800 at the moment by quite a bit.


 
 I think that there are a lot of HD800 owners that will agree with what you are saying. I would highly recommend anyone who already has the HD800 and is happy with it to audition the S rather than buy on the blind.  What I found helped me come to a more considered opinion, was when I put the HD800 aside for a day and only listened to the S. Then came back to comparing. BTW- On some tracks I would agree the bass is pretty similar. On others, especially hip hop or well-recorded IDM, I found the S to have significantly more punch. I agree with you about the sense of thrill on the HD800. I think that is due to the more V-shaped presentation of the classic vs. the S. It's why a lot of people find the TH900 more dynamic. As a result I often have found the classic to sound more exciting on highly compressed music. But I also think that dynamism it is a hair less accurate, But I certainly can understand why someone else will come to a different conclusion about which headphone best suits their needs.


----------



## deserat

Hey all. Am looking for a quick bit of advice. I've recently upgraded from the Hifi Man HE 560 to the HD800. Ok that's not entirely true I sold the HD600 and kept the HE560 then bought the HD800. I'm done with my headphones for awhile.

 Now, (un)fortunately, I've two amazing headphones; one for work and one for home. My current chain is a Bimby (Bifrost Mutlibit) > Lyr 2 > Telefunken E88CC.  I feel like this drives the HE560 quite well. It opens up it's soundstage just enough and to my ears gives the HE560 more detail than the HD800. What I like about the HD800 though is it's natural, open, and well positioned soundstage... as detailed as the HE560 is it doesn't feel natural... it sounds like and HDR photograph looks, exciting and other worldly. I like that but I want to build the chain out under the HD800 to complements what I feel are it's strengths, accuracy and imaging. I've only about $1000 to work with for the amp. Am planing to use another Bimby for the DAC. I feel like I've narrowed it down to 2 amps. Schiit Mjolnir 2 or Woo WA6se ( used of course ).  In time I'll upgrade tubes, I can't go beyond the $1000 so please don't suggest a Blue Hawaii etc...

 I guess the main conflict for me is that I've read repeatedly ... "The HD800 responds very well to Balanced" and "The HD800 responds really well to pure tube amps"  as you probably know the Mjolner is Hybrid and the Wa6se is pure tube...


----------



## shabta

deserat said:


> Hey all. Am looking for a quick bit of advice. I've recently upgraded from the Hifi Man HE 560 to the HD800. Ok that's not entirely true I sold the HD600 and kept the HE560 then bought the HD800. I'm done with my headphones for awhile.
> 
> Now, (un)fortunately, I've two amazing headphones; one for work and one for home. My current chain is a Bimby (Bifrost Mutlibit) > Lyr 2 > Telefunken E88CC.  I feel like this drives the HE560 quite well. It opens up it's soundstage just enough and to my ears gives the HE560 more detail than the HD800. What I like about the HD800 though is it's natural, open, and well positioned soundstage... as detailed as the HE560 is it doesn't feel natural... it sounds like and HDR photograph looks, exciting and other worldly. I like that but I want to build the chain out under the HD800 to complements what I feel are it's strengths, accuracy and imaging. I've only about $1000 to work with for the amp. Am planing to use another Bimby for the DAC. I feel like I've narrowed it down to 2 amps. Schiit Mjolnir 2 or Woo WA6se ( used of course ).  In time I'll upgrade tubes, I can't go beyond the $1000 so please don't suggest a Blue Hawaii etc...
> 
> I guess the main conflict for me is that I've read repeatedly ... "The HD800 responds very well to Balanced" and "The HD800 responds really well to pure tube amps"  as you probably know the Mjolner is Hybrid and the Wa6se is pure tube...


 
 Without totally wading into religion, the HD800 is amp sensitive, but not balanced vs. SE sensitive. People say that the Mjolner is not a great match for the HD800, I haven't heard the amp myself, but it has been said so many times by people I respect that I would be surprised to find it wasn't true. I find the Woo to be way too colored an amp, it makes everything too woo-y.
  
 The Vahalla 2 on the other hand sounds great, really great and is well below your budget. I really like my Icon HP8 ( but you have to chuck the stock tubes), but it only fits in your budget if you either live in europe or can find it used.


----------



## Kyle 491

thenewguy007 said:


> I keep hearing that it either reduces the air a bit for an extra bit of bass or that there is no reduction & just an increase in bass/tamed treble.
> Maybe it's just that subtle?
> 
> Btw what was your chain when using it?
> Icon Audio HP-8 mk2 or the Ragnarok?


 
  
 I used both, the Icon Audio HP-8 mk2 is warmer, I prefer the Ragnarok with the HD800S. Its the opposite for the stock HD800.


----------



## Hansotek

shabta said:


> deserat said:
> 
> 
> > Hey all. Am looking for a quick bit of advice. I've recently upgraded from the Hifi Man HE 560 to the HD800. Ok that's not entirely true I sold the HD600 and kept the HE560 then bought the HD800. I'm done with my headphones for awhile.
> ...




Lol! You can't compare it on two totally different amps and say, "it's not balanced vs. SE sensitive." On half the amps out there you can't even make a qualified statement of that nature on the same amp because the balanced and SE sections are built totally seperately. Though it's not as common now, under identical conditions balanced is superior, as the power and slew rate are both doubled relative to a matching single ended output. Designing for SE is a seperate engineering problem. It's fully possible to make SE outputs that are as good as balanced ones, but that is happening at the amp, not the headphone.


----------



## Oregonian

deserat said:


> Hey all. Am looking for a quick bit of advice. I've recently upgraded from the Hifi Man HE 560 to the HD800. Ok that's not entirely true I sold the HD600 and kept the HE560 then bought the HD800. I'm done with my headphones for awhile.
> 
> Now, (un)fortunately, I've two amazing headphones; one for work and one for home. My current chain is a Bimby (Bifrost Mutlibit) > Lyr 2 > Telefunken E88CC.  I feel like this drives the HE560 quite well. It opens up it's soundstage just enough and to my ears gives the HE560 more detail than the HD800. What I like about the HD800 though is it's natural, open, and well positioned soundstage... as detailed as the HE560 is it doesn't feel natural... it sounds like and HDR photograph looks, exciting and other worldly. I like that but I want to build the chain out under the HD800 to complements what I feel are it's strengths, accuracy and imaging. I've only about $1000 to work with for the amp. Am planing to use another Bimby for the DAC. I feel like I've narrowed it down to 2 amps. Schiit Mjolnir 2 or Woo WA6se ( used of course ).  In time I'll upgrade tubes, I can't go beyond the $1000 so please don't suggest a Blue Hawaii etc...
> 
> I guess the main conflict for me is that I've read repeatedly ... "The HD800 responds very well to Balanced" and "The HD800 responds really well to pure tube amps"  as you probably know the Mjolner is Hybrid and the Wa6se is pure tube...


 

 If you have the space, might want to consider a vintage speaker amp.  Really make the HD800 sing.  Can be had for far less than $1000.................far less.


----------



## shabta

hansotek said:


> Lol! You can't compare it on two totally different amps and say, "it's not balanced vs. SE sensitive." On half the amps out there you can't even make a qualified statement of that nature on the same amp because the balanced and SE sections are built totally seperately. Though it's not as common now, under identical conditions balanced is superior, as the power and slew rate are both doubled relative to a matching single ended output. Designing for SE is a seperate engineering problem. It's fully possible to make SE outputs that are as good as balanced ones, but that is happening at the amp, not the headphone.


 
  
 I think you just agreed with me


----------



## Hansotek

shabta said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > Lol! You can't compare it on two totally different amps and say, "it's not balanced vs. SE sensitive." On half the amps out there you can't even make a qualified statement of that nature on the same amp because the balanced and SE sections are built totally seperately. Though it's not as common now, under identical conditions balanced is superior, as the power and slew rate are both doubled relative to a matching single ended output. Designing for SE is a seperate engineering problem. It's fully possible to make SE outputs that are as good as balanced ones, but that is happening at the amp, not the headphone.
> ...


 
  
 That is entirely possible. I should have done a better job of reading the post you were responding to. I get what you were going for there.


----------



## deserat

That's an intriguing idea. Any suggestions or things to look for?


----------



## deserat

oregonian said:


> If you have the space, might want to consider a vintage speaker amp.  Really make the HD800 sing.  Can be had for far less than $1000.................far less.


 
 Sorry for the double post, for got to hit "quote"... 

 That's an intrigueing idea. And suggestions or guidelines?


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

I did a brief write-up of my first impressions regarding my change from HD800 to HD800 S:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/795365/sennheiser-hd800-s-impressions-thread-read-first-post-for-summary/60#post_12287233


----------



## Oregonian

deserat said:


> Sorry for the double post, for got to hit "quote"...
> 
> That's an intrigueing idea. And suggestions or guidelines?


 

 Go on craigslist in your local area, click electronics, type in vintage in the search bar and start perusing.  There's a thread dedicated to vintage here as well where we can give you feedback. 
  
 Let me know what area you are in and I'll do a quick search for ya to give you some ideas.


----------



## Oregonian

deserat said:


> Sorry for the double post, for got to hit "quote"...
> 
> That's an intrigueing idea. And suggestions or guidelines?


 

 I put in Los Angeles -
  
 https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/ele/5388695691.html
 https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/ele/5415836740.html
 https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/ele/5389350459.html
  
 And my favorite brand - Pioneer
 https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ele/5415088372.html
 https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/ele/5398236076.html - nice Pioneer integrated
 https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/ele/5404044814.html
  
 The beauty of craigslist is you can go see, hook up your headphones and listen...............


----------



## deserat

oregonian said:


> I put in Los Angeles -
> 
> https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/ele/5388695691.html
> https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/ele/5415836740.html
> ...


 
 Hah. Cool thanks.  And the price on these is low enough it's  easy to experiment. Plus I can annoy my hipster co-workers with how retro cool I am.


----------



## MacedonianHero

shabta said:


> I find some of what you write about the HD800 S perplexing. I seem to remember that you said several times that you sold off your HD800 some time ago, so perhaps that is the basis of why some of your statements about the S vs. classic are idiosyncratic. If you read comments about the S both here and on other forums, the difference is a lot about the airiness of the classic vs. the better behaved treble of the younger bro. This is not a subtle difference. In addition, the S images a little less precisely than the classic, that difference is subtle, but still quite noticeable.
> 
> Personally, speaking, I have now tried the S on a wide variety of amps and sources. I can say that while the S, like its older sibling, is sensitive to upstream gear (though a little less so), the basic differences between them remain.
> 
> I am not trying to pick a fight, but I also respectfully and emphatically disagree with what you write here.


 
 No worries, you are certainly entitled to emphatically disagree with me...because based on my experiences, I too emphatically disagree with your comments. The imaging is virtually unchanged to my ears; confirmed by yet more direct A-B comparisons this past weekend with a friend's HD800 headphones. But those are my experiences with my gears and ears as they say.


----------



## jhljhl

The hd800s sounds like an hd800 with an endorphin cable from what I gather but I will hear for myself one of these days yet.


----------



## Thenewguy007

deserat said:


> I guess the main conflict for me is that I've read repeatedly ... "The HD800 responds very well to Balanced" and "The HD800 responds really well to pure tube amps"  as you probably know the Mjolner is Hybrid and the Wa6se is pure tube...


 
  
 Out of the Schitt line of amps, people recommend the Vali, Valhalla 2 & the Ragnarok for pairing well with the HD800.
  
 From my experience, tube amps do pair better with the HD800.


----------



## cocolinho

I can tell you Lyr 2 is working well too. I even sold my Val 2 for it.


----------



## MWSVette

cocolinho said:


> I can tell you Lyr 2 is working well too. I even sold my Val 2 for it.


 
 I love my HD800 with the Lyr.  Great match IMHO...


----------



## Moonhead

Probably been up before, but can somebody tell me about HD800 vs. HD700.
  
 I could use a can with a more relaxin signature thats easier to drive and im a Sennheiser fanboy


----------



## PleasantSounds

moonhead said:


> Probably been up before, but can somebody tell me about HD800 vs. HD700.
> 
> I could use a can with a more relaxin signature thats easier to drive and im a Sennheiser fanboy


 
  
 I think you want the HD650


----------



## yates7592

He's already got HD 650.


----------



## Moonhead

Yeah, im pretty pleased with my HD650, but the Wife use them all the time.
 Heck, maybe I just have to forget about HD700, really dont need them, even though they tempt me.


----------



## ubs28

moonhead said:


> Probably been up before, but can somebody tell me about HD800 vs. HD700.
> 
> I could use a can with a more relaxin signature thats easier to drive and im a Sennheiser fanboy




Try the HEX.


----------



## cocolinho

moonhead said:


> Probably been up before, but can somebody tell me about HD800 vs. HD700.
> 
> I could use a can with a more relaxin signature thats easier to drive and im a Sennheiser fanboy


 
 I own HD650/700/800. 
 Forget about 700 if you're looking for a relaxing signature. 650 is the way to go.
 Still I don't think 700 are a bad headphones, just not for everyone


----------



## DavidA

moonhead said:


> Probably been up before, but can somebody tell me about HD800 vs. HD700.
> 
> I could use a can with a more relaxin signature thats easier to drive and im a Sennheiser fanboy


 

 seeing that you have 650 and 800 the 700 is between them, highs and sound stage closer to 800 while bass/mids closer to 650,easier to drive than 650 and 800


----------



## sheldaze

thenewguy007 said:


> Out of the Schitt line of amps, people recommend the Vali, Valhalla 2 & the Ragnarok for pairing well with the HD800.
> 
> From my experience, tube amps do pair better with the HD800.


 
 Is the Ragnarok generally considered better than the Valhalla 2 for the HD800?
  
 Let me preface by stating that my Valhalla 2 is stuck in a snow drift, en route to my house - my personal preference _today_ is still not the Ragnarok for my HD800. It is currently the Liquid Carbon. But there are many opinions on Head-Fi. And if the general consensus is Rag and HD800 are a good pair, or more to the question a _better _pairing at 5X the cost of the Valhalla 2, so be it. I am simply curious


----------



## Moonhead

Thanks Guys. 
  
 Im not a fan of planar headphones, so it seems im lookin for something thats not on the market right know. 
 I think I will wait some, maybe there will come HD700s who knows or something entirely different.


----------



## Dadracer

moonhead said:


> Thanks Guys.
> 
> Im not a fan of planar headphones, so it seems im lookin for something thats not on the market right know.
> I think I will wait some, maybe there will come HD700s who knows or something entirely different.


 
 I have just been comparing my own HD700s to the new Meze 99 Classics this week and have posted a review over in the review section. Anyhow long story short the Meze 99s only really lose out to the HD700 in terms of imaging and are very comfortable and have a warmer balance which is very easy to listen to the music with. Oh and they are less money..........


----------



## Moonhead

Thanks dad racer 

Not a big fan of closed cans, that's why I only have T51p  which I hardly use. 
My HD650 gets almost as much time as my HD800


----------



## ajlong12

Hello, 

This is my first post on these forums so please forgive me if this is a newbie question.

I recently purchased a pair of HD 800 headphones via Italian reseller on eBay. These will be my new PC gaming cans, replacing my AKG Q701's. My current setup is as follows: Creative Labs Titanium HD sound card, feeding Objective 2 headphone amp, feeding Q701.

My question is, is the O2 amp a good fit to drive the HD 800's? I will be listening to some music, but the primary function will be PC gaming. This means I want the best positional audio I can get, and the most immersive experience possible in games.

Will I be well served by the O2 amp? How does it compare with something like the Shiit Valhalla2 or another tube style amp? I am willing to spend a further $500 or so to upgrade the amp if it will produce superior sound with the HD 800.

Thank you for reading and I appreciate any replies!


----------



## mcandmar

Fancy an XLR balanced cable for the HD800 without spending €300 for Sennheisers?  Cheap skate recipe is as follows requiring about €10 worth of parts, a brave pill, and a little soldering skill. Parts needed are,
  
 Neutrik NC4FXX-B Female four pin XLR : http://www.neutrik.com/en/xlr/xx-series/nc4fxx-b
 Neutrik NC4MXX-B Male four pin XLR: http://www.neutrik.com/en/xlr/xx-series/nc4mxx-b
  
 The stock cable is a very nice design with a two separate cables for the left and right channel, each having a + and - wire wrapped inside an outer shield.  The other two black strings are only rubber to give the cable assembly some strength.  The four of them are all spiral wound together and wrapped in two layers of cloth.
  
 1) Take a brave pill and snip off the stock TRS connector with approx. 4" of cable attached.  Peel back the cloth layers on the headphone cable to expose the two cables inside, then carefully strip about half an inch of rubber off each one.  Separate the shield wires that are wrapped around the two inner conductors and twist all the strands together as shown below leaving you will two wires and a shield wire for each channel.
  

  
  
  
 2) Disassemble the male four pin XLR socket and slide the strain relief onto the headphone cable. Strip back ~5mm on the Red and White wires and solder the Red onto Pin1: Left +, and the white onto Pin 2: Left – of the XLR socket.  Then Take the Green and White wires and solder the Green onto Pin3: Right +, and the white onto Pin4: Right -.  The two remaining shield wires then connect to the ground solder tab on the XLR connector.  Slide the connector inside its housing and screw the strain relief onto the plug and you’re done, as shown below.  For a final sanity check take a multimeter and using the continuity setting ensure you have a good electrical connection from each of the four pins to the connectors at the headphones, and also confirm that you have no shorts between pins.  The outer bodies of the connectors at the headphones should also have continuity with the XLR outer shell.
  

  
  
  
 3) Optional if you want the ability to plug into regular TRS sockets: Disassemble a female four pin XLR connector and slide the strain relief onto the short cable attached to the TRS socket.  Prepare the wiring the same as step 1, and then solder the wires onto the XLR socket using the same pinout as listed in step 2. You will then have a short XLR to TRS adapter as shown below.
  

  
  
  
 4) Final pic showing the adapter plugged onto the end of the headphone cable.  The nice thing about this mod is it preserves the correct wiring for use with regular non balanced TRS sockets, and also for balanced XLR sockets using the same cable.


----------



## Taowolf51

Anyone happen to know if the HD800 plug (the one that plugs into the headphones) can be disassembled and removed? I'd like to see if I can fix my HD800 cable, or at least make a new one in the future.


----------



## Blackmore

Doesnt under part of it can be rolate? The right one.
  
  




  
  
  




  
  
  




 Quote:


taowolf51 said:


> Anyone happen to know if the HD800 plug (the one that plugs into the headphones) can be disassembled and removed? I'd like to see if I can fix my HD800 cable, or at least make a new one in the future.


----------



## mcandmar

There are a few sources for those connectors if you google "HD800 plugs" so you could just cut them off and replace.


----------



## pietcux

ajlong12 said:


> Hello,
> 
> This is my first post on these forums so please forgive me if this is a newbie question.
> 
> ...


 
 I personally think that you are perfectly set for all you want with the Sound Card and the O2 for starters. The HD800 is the best can for gaming, that I can imagine too. You can always do more later if you feel you need to. I run a Asus Xonar STX using the included Dolby headphone on 8 channels for gaming and on pure Stereo for listening to music. In both cases the amp is my Meier Audio Jazz ff. But I know the O2 and it is good enough to drive the HD 800. The Creative surround simulation for headphones is known as very good for gaming and watching movies too. For more information about your special purpose of gaming with headphones, you might want to check on the two threads here:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-1-14-2016-final-section-updated
  
 It is a lot of info, but you should find all your questions already answered.
  
 Cheers
  
 Peter


----------



## ajlong12

Excellent info, thank you pietcux!


----------



## 62ohm

Can anyone please give me a link to a post or a thread that compares the HD800 to the HD800S? Searching 'HD800S' yields myriads of results as there isn't any differentiation between updated 'HD800S' and the old HD800 being referred to as plural HD800s..


----------



## sheldaze

62ohm said:


> Can anyone please give me a link to a post or a thread that compares the HD800 to the HD800S? Searching 'HD800S' yields myriads of results as there isn't any differentiation between updated 'HD800S' and the old HD800 being referred to as plural HD800s..


 
 This is the best thread:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/795365/sennheiser-hd800-s-impressions-thread-read-first-post-for-summary


----------



## 62ohm

sheldaze said:


> This is the best thread:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/795365/sennheiser-hd800-s-impressions-thread-read-first-post-for-summary


 
  
 Thanks


----------



## giovvanie

Hi guys  
I found the problem with my hd 800 , the conectors seems to be loosy , when the stock cable is plugged in I can move it left to right and can move it a little bit my serial number is 43751 

Thanks for your advise


----------



## 62ohm

@giovvanie
  
 May I ask when did you purchase your HD800? I find it incredible that the sales of HD800 is about to reach the 50k mark..


----------



## bearFNF

If the stock cable has loose connectors in the earcups it needs to go back to where you bought it for replacement or back to  Sennheiser to be fixed on warranty. They should be very snug if they are fairly new and OEM.


----------



## giovvanie

62ohm said:


> @giovvanie
> 
> 
> May I ask when did you purchase your HD800? I find it incredible that the sales of HD800 is about to reach the 50k mark..


I bought my HD 800 1 month ago from ebay , to be sure about genuine I registered my product to get certificate and is genuine . I don't want sent them back  New cable will fix the problem ? I just sent my old one pure silver for recabling .
Thanks


----------



## giovvanie

bearfnf said:


> If the stock cable has loose connectors in the earcups it needs to go back to where you bought it for replacement or back to  Sennheiser to be fixed on warranty. They should be very snug if they are fairly new and OEM.


I don't think it's ear cups because isn't loosy output just cable seems to be to small for earcup conectors , that's why I can move a little bit .... The earcup conector is pretty solid


----------



## bearFNF

giovvanie said:


> I don't think it's ear cups because isn't loosy output just cable seems to be to small for earcup conectors , that's why I can move a little bit .... The earcup conector is pretty solid


 ok. If that's the case you should be able to just replace the cable and you should be good to go. Or get the cable reterminated on the headphone side.


----------



## pietcux

giovvanie said:


> Hi guys
> I found the problem with my hd 800 , the conectors seems to be loosy , when the stock cable is plugged in I can move it left to right and can move it a little bit my serial number is 43751
> 
> Thanks for your advise



I think the connector has a little play by construction. Nothing to worry about. Mine is 20524 and also has the same behavior than yours.


----------



## Zoom25

One thing I noticed about the HD 800 was that on the left side of the handle, there are 3 vertical dots. No dots on the right side. Apparently, its the braille letter for 'L.'
  
 I just noticed this last night and was really happy that Sennheiser did this to accommodate every kind of listener. Every headphone should be doing this in some way.


----------



## MWSVette

zoom25 said:


> One thing I noticed about the HD 800 was that on the left side of the handle, there are 3 vertical dots. No dots on the right side. Apparently, its the braille letter for 'L.'
> 
> I just noticed this last night and was really happy that Sennheiser did this to accommodate every kind of listener. Every headphone should be doing this in some way.


 
 +1 I agree
  
 I have the HD598, HD600 and HD700.  They are all marked for the seeing impaired.


----------



## Zoom25

You're right. I just noticed the 598 has it as well. Out of curiosity I checked all my other headphones and only the Sennheisers had them. This should be standard across the board on all headphones.


----------



## HiFiChris

These (usually three, sometimes only one) dots are very common actually.


----------



## Thenewguy007

ajlong12 said:


> Hello,
> 
> This is my first post on these forums so please forgive me if this is a newbie question.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think it is safe to say the Valhalla 2 will be a noticeable upgrade over the O2.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

My venus audio HD800 balanced cable keeps falling out — I asked about it and they got back to me saying "All you need to do is put a very small amount of glue on the inside of the connector. You just need to get a very small amount of resistance for the plug. Preferably hot glue. You only need a very small drop. Like a pin head."
  
Any experience with loose-fitting HD800 connectors?


----------



## Swolern




----------



## 62ohm

swolern said:


>




  
 Brilliant video, laughed my *ss off to it


----------



## lovethatsound

bosiemoncrieff said:


> My venus audio HD800 balanced cable keeps falling out — I asked about it and they got back to me saying "[COLOR=231F20]All you need to do is put a very small amount of glue on the inside of the connector. You just need to get a very small amount of resistance for the plug. Preferably hot glue. You only need a very small drop. Like a pin head."[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=231F20]Any experience with loose-fitting HD800 connectors? [/COLOR]


Do NOT put glue on them.Tell them to sort it out properly.


----------



## sheldaze

sorrodje said:


> Connectors on my Venus-audio cable are larger than the Stock ones indeed.


 


bosiemoncrieff said:


> My venus audio HD800 balanced cable keeps falling out — I asked about it and they got back to me saying "All you need to do is put a very small amount of glue on the inside of the connector. You just need to get a very small amount of resistance for the plug. Preferably hot glue. You only need a very small drop. Like a pin head."
> 
> Any experience with loose-fitting HD800 connectors?


 
 Seems you two should talk.
  
 I was displeased with the time it took for Venus Audio to build my cable. It was not until I reported the issue to eBay that they had not met their shipment estimate, only then was the cable sent (in 2 days after report, versus 3 weeks of waiting prior). My cable though was the new HiFiMan style. And I will be closely inspecting it.


----------



## Nudel

mcandmar said:


> Fancy an XLR balanced cable for the HD800 without spending €300 for Sennheisers?  Cheap skate recipe is as follows requiring about €10 worth of parts, a brave pill, and a little soldering skill. Parts needed are,
> 
> Neutrik NC4FXX-B Female four pin XLR : http://www.neutrik.com/en/xlr/xx-series/nc4fxx-b
> Neutrik NC4MXX-B Male four pin XLR: http://www.neutrik.com/en/xlr/xx-series/nc4mxx-b
> ...


 
  
 Very nicely done bro. Informative and useful. Besides... Did you've get any problems with soldering those wires? I know they are silver plated. So... do I need a higher temperature to solder them?


----------



## mcandmar

No, they didnt seem any different to me. I use my iron at 450c with Cardas Silver Solder.


----------



## bearFNF

bosiemoncrieff said:


> My venus audio HD800 balanced cable keeps falling out — I asked about it and they got back to me saying "[COLOR=231F20]All you need to do is put a very small amount of glue on the inside of the connector. You just need to get a very small amount of resistance for the plug. Preferably hot glue. You only need a very small drop. Like a pin head."[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=231F20]Any experience with loose-fitting HD800 connectors? [/COLOR]



I have personally seen this issue where the connectors are so loose they fall out. The cause was identified as improperly made connectors. The cable maker investigated and found out that the connectors were copies and not OEM. Once he got REAL Sennheiser connectors the cable worked fine. 
I measured the copies and compared them to my stock cable and my Q cable and found that they had a few dimensions off and there was also a critical feature missing entirely. The guys that copied it didn't understand how it was supposed to work and missed the feature completely. 
I've seen this happen in other instances where somebody tries to rip off somebody else's designs.

Your vendor needs to fix this. I would not put glue anywhere near my headphones if I were you.


----------



## Taowolf51

bearfnf said:


> I have personally seen this issue where the connectors are so loose they fall out. The cause was identified as improperly made connectors. The cable maker investigated and found out that the connectors were copies and nit OEM. Once he got REAL Sennheiser connectors the czble worked fine.
> I measured the copies and compared them to my stock cable and my Q cable and found that they had a few dimensions off and there was also a critical feature missing entirely. The guys that copied it didn't understand how it was supposed to work and missed the feature ccompletely.
> I've seen this happen in other instances where somebody tries to rip off somebody else's designs.
> 
> Your vendor need to fix this. I would not put glue any where near my headphones if I were you.


 
  


lovethatsound said:


> Do NOT put glue on them.Tell them to sort it out properly.


  

 Ditto, you absolutely should NOT put glue into your headphones, and asking you to do that is lazy and careless on the part of the cable company. They shipped you a faulty cable, it's their responsibility to fix that.


----------



## Sorrodje

Suprising. I have the same connectors on my Venus Audio cable and no problem whatsoever.


----------



## 13713

sorrodje said:


> Suprising. I have the same connectors on my Venus Audio cable and no problem whatsoever.




I saw too many awkward stories about Venus cables so I went with a different company. 

I went to the Arizona meet yesterday and compared my 800's to some other headphones. I tried the hi-fiman X's. They were different enough but I still think I want the HE-6 instead. 

The Bottlehead crack with speedball mod is amazing with the HD-800. I recommend everyone try it if they get a chance.

When I jumped in to headphones with the HD-800 Violectric V850/V281 I kind of hit endgame on solid state. The 800's are such an amazing headphone and hearing other headphones this weekend made me appreciate that I have such a great combo and sound. I want to try the 800S but I think I am in a good place with what I have.


----------



## Dadracer

> I want to try the 800S but I think I am in a good place with what I have.


 
 Just how long before the doubt creeps in...............sorry, been there too many times myself.


----------



## Fido2

The Violectric V281 with the classic HD800 is a great combo. Im listening to the audio fidelity SACD of America "Hearts" album and its just sublime. I have noticed however, that if you have the volume too loud with HD800 sibilant sounds especially "sh" get hard or glassy or irritatingly unnatural. BUT...if I turn the volume down sometimes just half a notch its enough to eliminate the irritation and the sound is natural and extremely pleasant. Just something to keep in mind when using HD800. With classical and instrumental the HD800 is tough to beat at its price.


----------



## Nudel

mcandmar said:


> No, they didnt seem any different to me. I use my iron at 450c with Cardas Silver Solder.


 

 Ok man. Thanks a lot.


----------



## cscales

I auditioned the SPL Phonitor 2 recently with my hd800. Ragnarok and Violectric v281 are contenders also, but no chance to listen to either. 

Anyone with impressions to share re: Phonitor 2 VS Ragnarok OR Phonitor 2 vs Violectric?


----------



## 13713

cscales said:


> I auditioned the SPL Phonitor 2 recently with my hd800. Ragnarok and Violectric v281 are contenders also, but no chance to listen to either.
> 
> Anyone with impressions to share re: Phonitor 2 VS Ragnarok OR Phonitor 2 vs Violectric?


 
  
 Here is a review of the V281. It also compared it to the Phonitor 2 on the second page: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/authoritative-and-potent-violectric-v281-headphone-amplifier#MJ5b7kTS5yMdFbkQ.97 
  
 I held off wanting to review the V281 until after I went to a local meet and had other people try it out...
  
 Everyone that had tried it loved it. Especially with the HD800. The amp is amazing and the following is cultlike for all the right reasons.


----------



## Fido2

> ... The amp is amazing and the following is cultlike for all the right reasons.




Because it has cleared us of our evil thetans?


----------



## 13713

fido2 said:


> Because it has cleared us of our evil thetans?


 
  
 So sayeth our lord and savior Tom Cruisemissle!


----------



## cscales

fido2 said:


> Because it has cleared us of our evil thetans?




AND... no Kool-aid in sight. Might just need to jump on board.

Thanks 13713 for the link. Interesting. Without other similar amps to compare, the Phonitor 2 sounded pretty damn good. But of little interest to a reviewer who had the V281 and Auralic as references. 

Goes to show you, everything is relative in this game. I'm getting a little tired of going around and around considering amps.

I'll just buy an Apex Teton and be done... right?

Seriously, I heard a Stax system for the same $ as the Phonitor 2 at the same shop. Made me think about (gasp) selling the Senns.


----------



## Wyversnake

Hi guys I plan to buy the hd800 for gaming, is the woo audio wa7 fireflies good enough to drive it ?

In advance thanks !


----------



## DavidA

wyversnake said:


> Hi guys I plan to buy the hd800 for gaming, is the woo audio wa7 fireflies good enough to drive it ?
> 
> In advance thanks !


 
 Had WA7d for a few months, didn’t work out, I don’t know if it was the stock tubes or what but my Lyr2, Ember and BH Crack were all better to me.  I don’t know how the HD-800 would sound on a WA7 since I didn’t have my HD-800 at that time but my HD-700, DT-990 and a friends T1 all sounded better on the BH Crack.
 Since you gaming I would suggest a headphone that does positional audio better, and for a lot less than the HD-800.  The other problem with the HD-800 is that it’s not the easiest to drive properly.


----------



## cuiter23

Anyone on here using the Cavalli Liquid Carbon with their HD800? Would definitely love to hear some impressions on SE vs Balanced.
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## sheldaze

cuiter23 said:


> Anyone on here using the Cavalli Liquid Carbon with their HD800? Would definitely love to hear some impressions on SE vs Balanced.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 
 Yes!
 But I run balanced from the Liquid Carbon. I use a cheap ZY cable (i.e. MassDrop makes these even cheaper).


----------



## Mortalcoil

FWIW Im really enjoyng the 800 with the 430HA.
  
 Great synergy IMO with less than 150 hours on the 430.  Worth a listen if you have a chance.


----------



## X1XNobleX1X

Hello forum members,
 I'm new to the forum and I'm looking into purchasing the HD800 not the new HD800S, don't think the extra cost is worth it. (Unless you can convince me otherwise)
  
  
 What are your opinions on using the Schiit Audio Vali (NOT 2) with the HD800?
 This would be accompanied with the Modi 2


----------



## bearFNF

I personally really like the Vali with my HD800 I have not heard the Modi2 however. I have not heard the HD800S either, but I have never had any issues with my HD800 either.  YMMV
  
 Welcome to the Forum. Sorry about your wallet.


----------



## X1XNobleX1X

bearfnf said:


> I personally really like the Vali with my HD800 I have not heard the Modi2 however. I have not heard the HD800S either, but I have never had any issues with my HD800 either.  YMMV
> 
> Welcome to the Forum. Sorry about your wallet.


 
 Thank you very much for the reply!
  
 Have you heard the VALI 2? I can get the Vali for relatively cheap, that's why I'd rather go with the Vali.


----------



## cuiter23

x1xnoblex1x said:


> Thank you very much for the reply!
> 
> Have you heard the VALI 2? I can get the Vali for relatively cheap, that's why I'd rather go with the Vali.




Dont think there would be much diff between V1 and V2.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I've had the Vali since May—and the HD800s since August. The sound is lovely—Vali tames the notorious sibilance quite well. While it lacks the detail and authority of the more expensive Schiit amps, you knew this, and for the money the value is simply superb. Strongly recommended as a starter HD800 amp.


----------



## ColonelBucket8

Can anyone comment on how well the new matrix m stage hpa 3u pairs with hd800?


----------



## bearFNF

x1xnoblex1x said:


> Thank you very much for the reply!
> 
> Have you heard the VALI 2? I can get the Vali for relatively cheap, that's why I'd rather go with the Vali.



Unfortunately, I have not heard the Vali2. I missed it at the last show i was at.


----------



## Sorrodje

cuiter23 said:


> Dont think there would be much diff between V1 and V2.


 
  
 There's substantial differences.  Vali 2 is better. More refined, more open sounding, less forward. More transparent as well. Still fun and easy to listen though.  I owned the Vali Twice and I Currently have the Vali 2.  that little beast is sensitive to tube rolling as well so it's easy to tune the sound. Funny but expensive. THe best to do is to stick to 6BZ7/6BQ7a tubes instead of  E88CC/6DJ8 family.  6BQ7a are cheap whereas 6DJ8 ubes can get pretty darn expensive. 
  
 My 2 cents.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

Has anyone tried pairing the HD800 with a speaker amplifier?

 I recently acquired the Arcam A7R and hooked it up to my Chord Hugo TT.  The HD800 never sounded so good.  Granting that there was still that peak, it nevertheless sounded awesome.  I'd say, even better than the sound I heard out of the Violectric v281.


----------



## Currawong

I think the Vali 2 with an Amperex PQ (out of a couple of different tubes I've tried) is pretty killer value for the money. Not the most precise music delivery, but neither "tubey" sounding, nor boring.


----------



## Oregonian

sp3llv3xit said:


> *Has anyone tried pairing the HD800 with a speaker amplifier?*


 

 I run my HD800 out of a 250wpc vintage Pioneer Spec rack system - it really makes them sing.  Bass is so good on these out of my vintage amps (have 8 systems in use in total) - all the rhetoric about these being bass light is completely wrong when fed this way.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

oregonian said:


> I run my HD800 out of a 250wpc vintage Pioneer Spec rack system - it really makes them sing.  Bass is so good on these out of my vintage amps (have 8 systems in use in total) - all the rhetoric about these being bass light is completely wrong when fed this way.




Beautiful setup you got there!

What dac feeds into your Pioneer?


----------



## Moonhead

Speaker Amps often has more volts, if I werent satisfied with My portable Superlux AMP and My active speakers 
I Would get Either a Yamaha A-S1100/A-S3000 but they have no purpose in My setup ar the moment


----------



## MrMan

I friend did this with his HD700. I really like the paint job and pondering if I should have him do it to my HD800. I constantly change headphones and just curious if people think it would change the value of the HD800 if they were painted like that.


----------



## Oregonian

sp3llv3xit said:


> Beautiful setup you got there!
> 
> What dac feeds into your Pioneer?


 

 FYI - I feed it three ways - turntable (vintage Pioneer), CD's (Pioneer PDR-609) and iPhone5 via the NuForce iDo DAC - it does a great job.


----------



## soundlogic

Music Direct is selling the HD-800 for $1100.00 In case anyone is interested: http://www.musicdirect.com/p-271862-sennheiser-hd800-headphones-like-new.aspx?utm_source=bronto&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Image+-+hd800&utm_content=02/03/2016&utm_campaign=musicdirect+soundbytes+issue+%23715_2_NP+02-03-16&_bta_tid=3.AI3O.Ci31yg.EFpZ.AeCCvw..Aj1boQ.s..l.C9eT.n...59bY2Q


----------



## cuiter23

soundlogic said:


> Music Direct is selling the HD-800 for $1100.00 In case anyone is interested: http://www.musicdirect.com/p-271862-sennheiser-hd800-headphones-like-new.aspx?utm_source=bronto&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Image+-+hd800&utm_content=02/03/2016&utm_campaign=musicdirect+soundbytes+issue+%23715_2_NP+02-03-16&_bta_tid=3.AI3O.Ci31yg.EFpZ.AeCCvw..Aj1boQ.s..l.C9eT.n...59bY2Q


 
  
 I would still go the used route here on head-fi since the $1100 is not brand new. Would be a steal if it were.


----------



## MrMan

cuiter23 said:


> I would still go the used route here on head-fi since the $1100 is not brand new. Would be a steal if it were.


 
  
 I got mine for 700 used.


----------



## pietcux

mrman said:


> I got mine for 700 used.



750€ for a two year old one here.


----------



## sp3llv3xit

oregonian said:


> FYI - I feed it three ways - turntable (vintage Pioneer), CD's (Pioneer PDR-609) and iPhone5 via the NuForce iDo DAC - it does a great job.


----------



## Dadracer

sp3llv3xit said:


> oregonian said:
> 
> 
> > FYI - I feed it three ways - turntable (vintage Pioneer), CD's (Pioneer PDR-609) and iPhone5 via the NuForce iDo DAC - it does a great job.


 
 No cassette then????


----------



## Oregonian

dadracer said:


> No cassette then????


 

 No sir.............had a CTF-1000 with the Spec rack when I bought it but as usual the 35 year old drive mechanism was toast and since I had no desire to add yet another layer of items to collect (cassette tapes) I sold it for $400................which made my cost to buy the Spec rack @ $270 (yes, right place, right time, luck had a major role in this) pretty much my deal of the century.  I still have a bunch of brand new TDK blank CrO2 tapes that I should sell. 
  
 It was tempting to have the cassette deck refurbed, as is diving into the RT-707 reel to reel that's on craigslist locally................but thus far I've maintained.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I got mine for $875 used incl shipping...okay deal, not quite excellent, especially since I needed to replace ear pads and headband. Is a 6xxx serial number considered "early"? I know DavidMahler makes a clear distinction between the 'full sound' of the early units and 'airier sound' of the later units in his flagship battle thread.


----------



## Taowolf51

I'm not sure if there's even a general consensus that there is a sound difference between early and late models.


----------



## pietcux

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I got mine for $875 used incl shipping...okay deal, not quite excellent, especially since I needed to replace ear pads and headband. Is a 6xxx serial number considered "early"? I know DavidMahler makes a clear distinction between the 'full sound' of the early units and 'airier sound' of the later units in his flagship battle thread.


 

 It is a pain that you needed to replace the pads and the headband. Mine could be cleaned easily with a good wool wash fluid. Makes my deal even better. I could compare my pads quality to the pads of a bran new HD800S and the overall quality is still like new.


----------



## Thenewguy007

sorrodje said:


> There's substantial differences.  Vali 2 is better. More refined, more open sounding, less forward. More transparent as well. Still fun and easy to listen though.  I owned the Vali Twice and I Currently have the Vali 2.  that little beast is sensitive to tube rolling as well so it's easy to tune the sound. Funny but expensive. THe best to do is to stick to 6BZ7/6BQ7a tubes instead of  E88CC/6DJ8 family.  6BQ7a are cheap whereas 6DJ8 ubes can get pretty darn expensive.
> 
> My 2 cents.


 
  
 Any specific 6BZ7/6BQ7a brands worth recommending?


----------



## Thenewguy007

mrman said:


> I friend did this with his HD700. I really like the paint job and pondering if I should have him do it to my HD800. I constantly change headphones and just curious if people think it would change the value of the HD800 if they were painted like that.


 
  
 Colorware does this professionally.
  
 http://www.colorware.com/p-289-sennheiser-hd-800.aspx
  
 I would say it would add value, as the default matte silver color on the HD800 is hideous.
  
 BTW how did he go about painting it?


----------



## 62ohm

I would argue otherwise - the default silver looks discreet to me; subtle yet sophisticated. Red color scheme looks conspicuous and ostentatious (in other word, a bit gaudy).


----------



## MrMan

thenewguy007 said:


> Colorware does this professionally.
> 
> http://www.colorware.com/p-289-sennheiser-hd-800.aspx
> 
> ...


 
  
 Colorware charges a pretty penny. Peterek does it for a reasonable price in comparison and his paint jobs are done professionally with a much better turn around time.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

62ohm said:


> I would argue otherwise - the default silver looks discreet to me; subtle yet sophisticated. Red color scheme looks conspicuous and ostentatious (in other word, a bit gaudy).


 
 What you mean, GAUDY???  My HD800 AND HDVD800 look perfect in my car!!!
  

  
 They go perfectly with my in-car audio vinyl source...


----------



## defbear

I think the red looks especially nice. It would also lower the value. Definitely used, not original, messed with. But enjoyable to own.


----------



## Fido2

Is that turntable a Fiat option now?


----------



## ubs28

Won't the needle jump due to engine vibrations or when you hit a speed bump? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 But it looks really nice.


----------



## Solarium

Got my HD800 finally after getting the Grace Design m9XX. I finally understand why this is called the king of dynamics. It pairs so well with the m9XX as well. Compared to my T1, it's more accurate in an analytical sense, airy, has a larger soundstage, smoother, less bright, comfortable, but less emotional and exciting. I can see why people are either part of the T1 or a 800 crowd, they are both amazing headphones and not in the sense "better" than the other. However, given the overall presentation of the HD800, and if both are the same price, I would currently go with the 800. I have a feeling I can listen to much larger doses of the 800 than the T1 due to treble fatigue. Strange people call this headphone bright though, while brighter than the 700 for sure, it's definitely darker than the T1.


----------



## sheldaze

solarium said:


> Got my HD800 finally after getting the Grace Design m9XX. I finally understand why this is called the king of dynamics. It pairs so well with the m9XX as well. Compared to my T1, it's more accurate in an analytical sense, airy, has a larger soundstage, smoother, less bright, comfortable, but less emotional and exciting. I can see why people are either part of the T1 or a 800 crowd, they are both amazing headphones and not in the sense "better" than the other. However, given the overall presentation of the HD800, and if both are the same price, I would currently go with the 800. I have a feeling I can listen to much larger doses of the 800 than the T1 due to treble fatigue. Strange people call this headphone bright though, while brighter than the 700 for sure, it's definitely darker than the T1.


 
 That was truly one of the more surprising pairings I enjoyed on my HD800, with the m9XX. To my ears, the AKG and Beyers only get the highs right - the Senns make every effort to cover the full spectrum.
  
 Hope you enjoy!


----------



## longbowbbs

Sunday morning with the HD800's


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

solarium said:


> Got my HD800 finally after getting the Grace Design m9XX. I finally understand why this is called the king of dynamics. It pairs so well with the m9XX as well. Compared to my T1, it's more accurate in an analytical sense, airy, has a larger soundstage, smoother, less bright, comfortable, but less emotional and exciting. I can see why people are either part of the T1 or a 800 crowd, they are both amazing headphones and not in the sense "better" than the other. However, given the overall presentation of the HD800, and if both are the same price, I would currently go with the 800. I have a feeling I can listen to much larger doses of the 800 than the T1 due to treble fatigue. Strange people call this headphone bright though, while brighter than the 700 for sure, it's definitely darker than the T1.


 

 Fostex TH900 and AKG K812 are a couple of other nominees for 'king of the dynamics,' as is of course the discontinued AKG K1000, but the HD800 does so much so well—and for a lower price than either TH900 or K1000—that its kingship is unlikely to be questioned. The Sony MDR-R10, of course, is the only dynamic that is widely regarded more favorably, but there are so few units worldwide that it can only ever be a niche toy for the exceptionally well-heeled.


----------



## Kyle 491

The K812 wouldn't win the 'King of mid-fi' let alone the 'king of dynamics'. It has less resolution than a HD600 and high mid-range distortion combined with a zingy treble which makes it sound 'hard' with massed vocals or complex instrumental music with a lot of treble presence.


----------



## Kiats

kyle 491 said:


> The K812 wouldn't win the 'King of mid-fi' let alone the 'king of dynamics'. It has less resolution than a HD600 and high mid-range distortion combined with a zingy treble which makes it sound 'hard' with massed vocals or complex instrumental music with a lot of treble presence.




Haha! I wouldn't be so harsh. I have both and I'm happy with both. Both are stunning in their own right. At the end of the day, it depends on what sig you want at that point in time.


----------



## Solarium

I really don't know why majority of people prefer the 800 over the T1. I find the soundstage to be artificially large, the sound to be too smooth and laid back without T1's edginess, too flat/neutral/unemotional without T1's excitement. Do you guys listen to a complete different genre than I do, am I the only one who thinks this way? I only can find 800 to be a definite winner in classical genre, but with the majority of my music (80% EDM, pop, rock) the T1 is so much more involving. I even bought the m9XX just for the 800 too, but I can't justify spending $300-400 more for just the comfort and the larger soundstage. I even find T1's imaging to be better. Someone please tell me why you prefer the 800 and convince me not to return my 800!


----------



## whirlwind

solarium said:


> I really don't know why majority of people prefer the 800 over the T1. I find the soundstage to be artificially large, the sound to be too smooth and laid back without T1's edginess, too flat/neutral/unemotional without T1's excitement. Do you guys listen to a complete different genre than I do, am I the only one who thinks this way? I only can find 800 to be a definite winner in classical genre, but with the majority of my music (80% EDM, pop, rock) the T1 is so much more involving. I even bought the m9XX just for the 800 too, but I can't justify spending $300-400 more for just the comfort and the larger soundstage. I even find T1's imaging to be better. Someone please tell me why you prefer the 800 and convince me not to return my 800!


 
 Different ears & different gear....in the end , it is just what one person prefers....no right or wrong here.


----------



## DavidA

solarium said:


> I really don't know why majority of people prefer the 800 over the T1. I find the soundstage to be artificially large, the sound to be too smooth and laid back without T1's edginess, too flat/neutral/unemotional without T1's excitement. Do you guys listen to a complete different genre than I do, am I the only one who thinks this way? I only can find 800 to be a definite winner in classical genre, but with the majority of my music (80% EDM, pop, rock) the T1 is so much more involving. I even bought the m9XX just for the 800 too, but I can't justify spending $300-400 more for just the comfort and the larger soundstage. I even find T1's imaging to be better. Someone please tell me why you prefer the 800 and convince me not to return my 800!


 
 I like both, as they say "Different strokes for different folks"  And I think the genre of music has a part in which you might prefer.  FWIW I only like the HD-800/T-1 out of my BH Crack, my Lyr2/Ember don't quite do it for me.  I've heard both on higher end equipment and while both sound better the cost is too far in diminishing returns for me to consider since I'm getting older and my hearing is only going down hill.


----------



## Solarium

whirlwind said:


> Different ears & different gear....in the end , it is just what one person prefers....no right or wrong here.


 
  


davida said:


> I like both, as they say "Different strokes for different folks"  And I think the genre of music has a part in which you might prefer.  FWIW I only like the HD-800/T-1 out of my BH Crack, my Lyr2/Ember don't quite do it for me.  I've heard both on higher end equipment and while both sound better the cost is too far in diminishing returns for me to consider since I'm getting older and my hearing is only going down hill.


 
  
 Spoken some true words. By the way, I see that both of you guys also have the STX sound card. Do you only use it for your speakers, and bypass it altogether when using the headphones? Lol you guys sure do enjoy life similarly too, golfing, family, friends, music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. DavidA I remember your name in many of my postings, you sure bring some good advice to this community, along with warmth 
  
 After reading all the reviews, I've decided to use my 800 until the end of its "lease" from amazon at the 1 month mark. I have a feeling it's one of those headphones that you really need to listen for long term to appreciate it. Perhaps at the end of the lease I will change my mind.


----------



## joshk4

davida said:


> I like both, as they say "Different strokes for different folks"  And I think the genre of music has a part in which you might prefer.  FWIW I only like the HD-800/T-1 out of my BH Crack, my Lyr2/Ember don't quite do it for me.  I've heard both on higher end equipment and while both sound better the cost is too far in diminishing returns for me to consider since I'm getting older and my hearing is only going down hill.


 
  
 That is correct, ultimately it is what you like and what you don't like, no right or wrong.
  
 As my signature says...


----------



## Moonhead

HD800 presents the music as it is, very natural thats why it may not give you the wow effect as cans that color the sound, 
 could be the same reason some people dont like Stax to, as they are the most natural sounding earspeaker! 
  
 I personally dont like Beyer treble peak and find it very annoying and unnatural, now i never listen to T1, but owned T70p and Dt880 
 and read somewhere Beyer treble peak is even worse in T1 than T70, I feel Sennheiser is way ahaed of Beyer. 
 But as always difference strokes and la di da... and thank god for that!


----------



## DavidA

moonhead said:


> HD800 presents the music as it is, very natural thats why it may not give you the wow effect as cans that color the sound,
> could be the same reason some people dont like Stax to, as they are the most natural sounding earspeaker!
> 
> I personally dont like Beyer treble peak and find it very annoying and unnatural, now i never listen to T1, but owned T70p and Dt880
> ...


 
 I agree that some Stax headphones will sound to boring to some, my SR-009 fits that description some times but for well mastered classical it can't be beat.  I also have a old Stax SR-40, much more musical, better bass than SR-009 to me, and depending on what I'm listening to, better than the HD-800 in some ways.


----------



## Moonhead

Thanks DavidA 
  
 I use to own 009 and then 007MKI and both is certainly more transparent than HD800 and presents the bass in a much more subtle way, I would describe it as a mild bass bloom thats very organic sounding, where HD800 is more aggressive dominant and fun! 
  
 I would love to listen to some Stax 207 with Stax 323, I have a feeling that could be best bang for buck in a headphone setup, Birgir like them alot!


----------



## whirlwind

solarium said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Different ears & different gear....in the end , it is just what one person prefers....no right or wrong here.
> ...


 
 I used my STX for headphones before I purchased a headphone amp, never tried the HD800 with the STX though.
  
 Yes, now I just use it for my speakers.
  
 It is a wonderful sound card.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

For EDM/pop/rock I would have expected your vote to go to the planers, whether HE-6 or LCD series.


----------



## shultzee

kyle 491 said:


> The K812 wouldn't win the 'King of mid-fi' let alone the 'king of dynamics'. It has less resolution than a HD600 and high mid-range distortion combined with a zingy treble which makes it sound 'hard' with massed vocals or complex instrumental music with a lot of treble presence.


 

 You must have owned a different type of K812 than I did lol.  Its a pretty good HP.  Definitely blows away the mid level Senns.   And I am a Senn fan.


----------



## Solarium

bosiemoncrieff said:


> For EDM/pop/rock I would have expected your vote to go to the planers, whether HE-6 or LCD series.


 
 I actually went with HE-400 for my 1st planars, absolutely loved it, but gave me a terrible neck ache. Trying out different headphones made me realize that I can't really tolerate anything that weighs over 350g, which eliminates all of Audeze's offerings and most of the Hifiman's. I did eventually go back to the Hifiman's a second time to try out the 400i after they announced that it was much lighter than the original, but it didn't sound anything like the original (especially the bass) and too claustrophobic like the 650 which I also didn't enjoy. I ordered the Fostex TH-X00 after hearing the praises and getting caught in the hype, it'll be my 1st closed cans and I'm looking forward to hearing it with my EDM's.


----------



## 62ohm

Haven't get the chance to try out the HD800S yet, but here I am still enjoying my HD800 just like the first time I got it, if not more.


----------



## X1XNobleX1X

Proud owner of a new pair of HD800s.
  
  
 Sounds great, using a VALI and Modi 2.
  
  
  
  
 EDIT:
  
 Just received my frequency response chart, wouldn't have a clue what it means, but here it is below:
 http://s28.postimg.org/9tg4zz25p/HD800.png
  
  
 Not sure why it won't let me use the insert image option


----------



## sheldaze

x1xnoblex1x said:


> Only issue, that I have found is that when playing through Foobar and other players, a lot of the instruments are coming out of the left ear rather than both. Is this what is suppose to happen?
> 
> It doesn't happen with all music, but most of my collection.


 
 Does not seem right - do you have another headphone you can use to play the same song to test?
  
 If this is your only headphone, you may simple need to adjust to the idea that headphones do separate the music differently than speakers. Music played out of only the left channel cannot be heard on the right ear, which is quite different from speakers.


----------



## X1XNobleX1X

What would be a good upgrade amp from the Vali?

I was looking at the Vahalla 2, which people are saying is better than the Lyr 2.

Or even something not from the Schiit line, that someone can suggest. Around the 300-600 USD range would be good,



Also, are there any precautions to take when using the HD800, is it ok to keep them plugged into the amp when not being used? Is it ok to turn on the amp with the headphones plugged in?


Sorry, I'm new to all this, don't wan't to ruin my headphones over time with something that can easily be done.


----------



## Sorrodje

x1xnoblex1x said:


> Also, are there any precautions to take when using the HD800, is it ok to keep them plugged into the amp when not being used? Is it ok to turn on the amp with the headphones plugged in?
> 
> 
> Sorry, I'm new to all this, don't wan't to ruin my headphones over time with something that can easily be done.


 
  
 Make yourself a favor and don't be OCD about your headphone.
  
 I live with my HD800 since 2013 and lived with it like I'd do with any other headphones: I let it fall , I put (and washed) some glue on it. I modded it . I let it plugged on my amps night and day, my HD800 sleeps on my desk,  I walked on the cable several times . I even brutally (accidentaly) pulled off connectors several times as well and I probably istened to more than 2000H of my music with  it.  I sometimes forgot to crank down the volume after some test or after some listening with a HE-6 and drivers didn't break (my ears though.... ) despite the Super loud distorted sound... 
  
 And it still works like a charm.  That's something I love with all Sennheiser HD series. Those are tools for heavy daily use. all parts are replacable and they're rock solid ( except HD800's paint).  All HD800 from the beginning sound and measure very close despite rumors about some more warmer/less trebly series. Nobody (I can remember at least) related  any issues or failure.
  
 German engineering at best.


----------



## Arniesb

sorrodje said:


> Make yourself a favor and don't be OCD about your headphone.
> 
> I live with my HD800 since 2013 and lived with it like I'd do with any other headphones: I let it fall , I put (and washed) some glue on it. I modded it . I let it plugged on my amps night and day, my HD800 sleeps on my desk,  I walked on the cable several times . I even brutally (accidentaly) pulled off connectors several times as well and I probably istened to more than 2000H of my music with  it.  I sometimes forgot to crank down the volume after some test or after some listening with a HE-6 and drivers didn't break (my ears though.... ) despite the Super loud distorted sound...
> 
> ...


Indeed. HD Series is the very Safest bet if someone is worried about Headphones longevity! I heard about Hd6** series driver failures only a few times, but never heard something bad about HD700 or HD800.


----------



## MWSVette

x1xnoblex1x said:


> What would be a good upgrade amp from the Vali?
> 
> I was looking at the Vahalla 2, which people are saying is better than the Lyr 2.
> 
> ...


 
 Either of those amps would be fine choices for the HD800.  Personally I have the Lyr and love it...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

If you can spring for a balanced, cable, the original Mjolnir is $499 on their website; I'd go for the Mjolnir 2 though. What authoratah!


----------



## shultzee

bosiemoncrieff said:


> If you can spring for a balanced, cable, the original Mjolnir is $499 on their website; I'd go for the Mjolnir 2 though. What authoratah!


 

 This.   MJ2 if you can swing it.   Heck of a amp with the hd800 (balanced)


----------



## 62ohm

shultzee said:


> This.   MJ2 if you can swing it.   Heck of a amp with the hd800 (balanced)


 
  
 Is it better than the HDVA 600?
  
 I'm looking for a tube/hybrid amp at the moment and the MJ2 is in my sights.


----------



## shultzee

62ohm said:


> [QUOTE name="shultzee" url="/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/21945#post_12351352
> 
> 
> 
> This.   MJ2 if you can swing it.   Heck of a amp with the hd800 (balanced)




Is it better than the HDVA 600?

I'm looking for a tube/hybrid amp at the moment and the MJ2 is in my sights.
[/quote]


I dont have any experience with the hdva600.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I haven't heard hdva, but MJ2 let's you be solid state one minute and tube hybrid the next. Add that to balanced + single ended output and you have perhaps THE most flexible amp ever built. I can vouch for the sound as being top-notch but I can't comment on that comparison in particular.


----------



## leng jai

Anyone using the Bifrost 4490 with their HD800? Looks nice and it's relatively affordable ($649AUD). I'm looking to upgrade to upgrade my ancient DAC Magic but not a fan of spending too much on a DAC.


----------



## Hansotek

leng jai said:


> Anyone using the Bifrost 4490 with their HD800? Looks nice and it's relatively affordable ($649AUD). I'm looking to upgrade to upgrade my ancient DAC Magic but not a fan of spending too much on a DAC.




If you can swing a little extra, I feel like the Chord Mojo is actually even better than the Bifrost Multibit, and it actually amps the HD800 pretty well, which can give your (normally desk-locked) HD800 a little portability around the house (not to mention the fact that it's going to be killer with any portable IEMs or HPs you use. 

I just figure, if your skeptical about paying more for a DAC, you can take a more utilitarian approach with a product that is even better than the next step up in Schiit lineup, gain portability and have a killer mobile product in one fell swoop. That's a lot of value! Jude told me a couple weeks ago that he likes it even better than the Hugo, and I think he mentioned it again in the CanJam Sigapore preview video. I've been rocking it with the HD800 and the Cavalli Liquid Gold, and it makes me question whether I even need a big desktop DAC at all.

Food for thought. Cheers.


----------



## defbear

hansotek said:


> If you can swing a little extra, I feel like the Chord Mojo is actually even better than the Bifrost Multibit, and it actually amps the HD800 pretty well, which can give your (normally desk-locked) HD800 a little portability around the house (not to mention the fact that it's going to be killer with any portable IEMs or HPs you use.
> 
> I just figure, if your skeptical about paying more for a DAC, you can take a more utilitarian approach with a product that is even better than the next step up in Schiit lineup, gain portability and have a killer mobile product in one fell swoop. That's a lot of value! Jude told me a couple weeks ago that he likes it even better than the Hugo, and I think he mentioned it again in the CanJam Sigapore preview video. I've been rocking it with the HD800 and the Cavalli Liquid Gold, and it makes me question whether I even need a big desktop DAC at all.
> 
> Food for thought. Cheers.


I have the ifi micro idsd. If sounds great with my hd800's. I also enjoy my hd800's with my liquid carbon. I see you have both the LC and liquid gold. Can you compare the two. I'm thinking of getting in on the last run of liquid gold. The liquid carbon has a very similar all-balanced setup. Is the Lau worth the extra cost? Yes, I know you bought one so it's worth the cost. But, I do have a Audio-gd Master 11. Different animal, but still a high end amp. Thank you for the help.


----------



## X1XNobleX1X

Unfortunately, I cannot afford the Mjolnir 2 and I can't get the Mjolnir here in Australia (Only 115V)
  
 For the HD800, would you recommend the Lyr 2 or the Vahalla 2?
  
 Not much about the Lyr 2 online, but more people recommend the Vahalla 2 for the HD800s. 
  
  
 Do you guys think this is a good step up from the Vali?


----------



## DavidA

@X1XNobleX1X, Having heard the HD-800 on all of these amps except the vali, I still like the BH Crack for amps under $500.  I have also listened to the HD-800 while in japan a few months ago on the Mjolnir2 and Valhalla2 along with a few other high end amps (EC Balancing Act, Liquid Gold, Liquid Glass, Rag) for me, anything pass the BH Crack was not worth it since I'm getting older and my hearing is going downhill.  Yes there is a difference between the BH Crack and the high end amps but the differences is not so huge that I felt that I was missing out, and it was taking away from the enjoyment of just listening to music since it seemed that when using the high end stuff I was more interested in listening for the differences rather than just the music,


----------



## Sorrodje

For those who could be interested in : my HD800S review .


----------



## sheldaze

leng jai said:


> Anyone using the Bifrost 4490 with their HD800? Looks nice and it's relatively affordable ($649AUD). I'm looking to upgrade to upgrade my ancient DAC Magic but not a fan of spending too much on a DAC.


 
 I use it, yes - I have no problems with the DAC, which is quite good!
  
 However I have more utilitarian amplifiers in the Bifrost setup - Asgard 2 and Vali 2. These are not the best match amplifiers for HD800. Thus I tend to use a stack consisting of DNA Sonett and Schiit Gungnir Multibit when listening to HD800.


----------



## Hansotek

defbear said:


> I have the ifi micro idsd. If sounds great with my hd800's. I also enjoy my hd800's with my liquid carbon. I see you have both the LC and liquid gold. Can you compare the two. I'm thinking of getting in on the last run of liquid gold. The liquid carbon has a very similar all-balanced setup. Is the Lau worth the extra cost? Yes, I know you bought one so it's worth the cost. But, I do have a Audio-gd Master 11. Different animal, but still a high end amp. Thank you for the help.


 
  
 I owned the Master-9 for a while, so I'm generally familiar with the AGD approach as well. The LAu shares a lot of sonic characteristics with the LC, but is improved in every area (quite substantially). The first, and most striking characteristic is the transparency, which is just unbelievable. The LAu's ability to make the HD800 disappear off your head is just uncanny, IMO. There is zero grain to the sound, it is just clear as a bell and fully extended at both ends. The soundstage is very large and extremely precise, it's almost like you can reach out and touch the performers.
  
 Treble-wise, the LAu is the smoothest I have heard with the HD800, I can get the volume up substantially higher than the LC or Master-9 before running into treble issues. Yet, the LAu also offers more detail and more extension up top than either of the other two. Mids are quite good, offering even more of that exceptional musicality you hear from the LC. Comparing my M9 and LC, I always felt the AGD lacking a little in emotion and musical engagement, even with its great technical abilities. The bass is really killer and packs even more of a wallop than the LC or AGD. The overall sound profile felt warm, relative to the M9 and I feel it is pretty in line with the LC's sound balance overall, just more refined in every area.
  
 To my ears, it is worth the extra cost. The LAu makes the music feel much more "addictive" in relative to the other amps. I find myself always wanting one more song.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I love my bifrost, and I loved my original Vali as a starter amp for HD800. Lyr is more flexible—more powerful—than Valhalla, though there's something to be said for going with a Vali and saving one's pennies for the future. Original Vali had a lovely tone, though it was a bit smeared—Mjolnir has incredible clarity and authority but is rather more expensive.


----------



## grizzlybeast

... HD800s will be my first listen of an Hd800. Wish I could've heard the old one.


----------



## Oregonian

grizzlybeast said:


> ... HD800s will be my first listen of an Hd800. Wish I could've heard the old one.


 

 You will.............next Saturday.


----------



## grizzlybeast

Great!


----------



## leng jai

Random pics of my HD800 setup. Think I'm done for a while after getting a Bifrost.


----------



## jynxed

So i wonder could someone give me a little advice please? I have been offered a very good price on a used HDVD 800 + HD800 + Balanced cable thrown it for £1200, or just the headphones for £600. They have only a few hours of usage on them and are pristine, as the guy who bought them died unexpectidly. Thing is I read that the DAC isnt the greatest, he even said so in the shop and during my demo session we bypassed the dac as I was there to just demo the headphones, he didnt realise I would also need to buy something to use with them and tbh at full price the hdvd800 is not something I would have considered.
  
 So is this deal just too good to pass up or should I just go with the headphones?


----------



## Moonhead

Skip the Amp and get HD800 new here for 675 pounds. 
  
  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SENNHEISER-HD800-HD-800-HEADPHONES-NEW-BOXED-FACTORY-SEALED-OFFICIAL-WARRANTY-/121859872169?hash=item1c5f6a15a9:g:NKsAAOSw~bFWNgLW


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Yeah schiit dacs are the state of the art


----------



## jynxed

moonhead said:


> Skip the Amp and get HD800 new here for 675 pounds.
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SENNHEISER-HD800-HD-800-HEADPHONES-NEW-BOXED-FACTORY-SEALED-OFFICIAL-WARRANTY-/121859872169?hash=item1c5f6a15a9:g:NKsAAOSw~bFWNgLW




Thanks, would still need amp with the remaining £600, hear the HD800 are very picky woould £600 be enough for am amp to bring out the best in n these?


----------



## paulchiu

jynxed said:


> Thanks, would still need amp with the remaining £600, hear the HD800 are very picky woould £600 be enough for am amp to bring out the best in n these?


 
 what amps do you already have?


----------



## Moonhead

I have this little beast and Im in no Hurry gettin a desktop amp 

http://www.thomann.de/dk/superlux_ha3d.htm?ref=search_rslt_Ha3d_239395_0


----------



## pietcux

moonhead said:


> I have this little beast and Im in no Hurry gettin a desktop amp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I would go for the set. The HDVD 800 will probably blow the Superlux away. And also help all your other cans to sound much better. Even though Schiit produces great hardware, neither did they invent the DAC as such, nor is there no other company which can make good stuff for us.


----------



## Moonhead

I have had Schiit Mjolnir and Questyle cma800r and I prefer my Superlux, which is neutral, the others arent.
As a bonus it runs on two batteries and has more than enough volts as it can power 3 headphones. 

Some people always wants the next big thing.


----------



## pietcux

moonhead said:


> I have had Schiit Mjolnir and Questyle cma800r and I prefer my Superlux, which is neutral, the others arent.
> As a bonus it runs on two batteries and has more than enough volts as it can power 3 headphones.
> 
> Some people always wants the next big thing.



That's ok, I assume that the Sennheiser amp is also very neutral, but might probably have a much better way to power your cans.


----------



## jynxed

Thanks for the answers.
  
  
 Quote:


paulchiu said:


> what amps do you already have?


 
  
 That's the problem, as I am relativley new to the audiophile world I dont have a dedicated desktop amp/dac, all my gear is portable bar one easy to drive set of full size headphones. All I have is a Fiio X7 and a C5D. As I say I didnt get to hear the DAC section, hell I didnt really think I would be looking at buying the 800's so soon, it just seemed like a good deal 
  


pietcux said:


> I would go for the set. The HDVD 800 will probably blow the Superlux away. And also help all your other cans to sound much better. Even though Schiit produces great hardware, neither did they invent the DAC as such, nor is there no other company which can make good stuff for us.


 
  
 Thanks for the advice, I have until wednesday to make up my mind, so I can sleep on it at little. The combination did put a grin on my face, the other thing he recomended was a Chord Mojo for them as a cheaper option, said that it drives them well and the dac is brilliant. All in all it would prob come to just under the package but obviously wouldnt have balanced option for me.


----------



## deserat

x1xnoblex1x said:


> Unfortunately, I cannot afford the Mjolnir 2 and I can't get the Mjolnir here in Australia (Only 115V)
> 
> For the HD800, would you recommend the Lyr 2 or the Vahalla 2?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't have any experience with the Vlhalla 2.  The Lyr 2  with upgraded tubes is quite good. I ran the HD-800 on it for awhile and was quite happy.  Better than the Asgard 2 by a long shot. Upgraded tubes make a huge difference. I landed on the Telefunken E88CC, I strongly recommend avoiding the LISSTS if you go with the Lyr 2.

 I only left the Lyr 2 when I found the HDVA 600 for $800... it was a whole other class of Amp. Wish I could tell ya more about the Valhalla 2 vs the Lyr 2.... sorry.


----------



## jynxed

deserat said:


> I don't have any experience with the Vlhalla 2.  The Lyr 2  with upgraded tubes is quite good. I ran the HD-800 on it for awhile and was quite happy.  Better than the Asgard 2 by a long shot. Upgraded tubes make a huge difference. I landed on the Telefunken E88CC, I strongly recommend avoiding the LISSTS if you go with the Lyr 2.
> 
> I only left the Lyr 2 when* I found the HDVA 600 for $800*... it was a whole other class of Amp. Wish I could tell ya more about the Valhalla 2 vs the Lyr 2.... sorry.


 
  
 That is interesting that you have said makes the deal I was offered with the hdvd800 sound even better, I understand it is the same amp.


----------



## paulchiu

jynxed said:


> That's the problem, as I am relativley new to the audiophile world I dont have a dedicated desktop amp/dac, all my gear is portable bar one easy to drive set of full size headphones. All I have is a Fiio X7 and a C5D. As I say I didnt get to hear the DAC section, hell I didnt really think I would be looking at buying the 800's so soon, it just seemed like a good deal


 
  
 The fun is finding what works with your headphone.  Since you found such a good deal on the HD800, you start with that. Yes, the price on the HDVD800 is about $2000 US, so your offer is great.  But, is it in great working order, that's my concern.
 If you can get a 30 day return policy on this deal, go for it.  If not, the pricing seems too good to be true.
  
 BTW, even with UK shipping cost, you can get great amps/ DACs at Massdrop.com for your HD800.
 Amps starting at $200 US to $500 US for starters.


----------



## Mortalcoil

jynxed said:


> the guy who bought them died unexpectidly.
> 
> So is this deal just too good to pass up or should I just go with the headphones?


 
  
  
 Just my opinion of course but dont buy the departed's gear ....... Kharma baby....Kharma


----------



## thecrow

jynxed said:


> So i wonder could someone give me a little advice please? I have been offered a very good price on a used HDVD 800 + HD800 + Balanced cable thrown it for £1200, or just the headphones for £600. They have only a few hours of usage on them and are pristine, as the guy who bought them died unexpectidly. Thing is I read that the DAC isnt the greatest, he even said so in the shop and during my demo session we bypassed the dac as I was there to just demo the headphones, he didnt realise I would also need to buy something to use with them and tbh at full price the hdvd800 is not something I would have considered.
> 
> So is this deal just too good to pass up or should I just go with the headphones?


That sounds like a great deal. Not sure exactly what the uk prices normally are but compared to the Australian dollar exchange rate that sounds great if they are in a good condition. 

Even better that's it's with the balanced cable which I assume would be the sennheiser cable. 

The dac is ok, nothing special but ok. Upgrade later. 

I'm assuming you could probably sell the hdvd800 for not far off this price if you wanted too in the next 6-12 months. That's always a good thing.

Btw I heard the mojo with my focal spirit pro headphones and I found the detail decent but the separation very limited so not what I think would work well with hd800. 

Go have a listen to the hdvd800. If you like it and it looks good then definitely worth considering. There are better Amps and dacs but fir this price this sounds like good value


----------



## Yoga

Found a brand new pair of HD800s for £675 and couldn't resist. I'll be using them for music production (along with monitors).
  
 Frequency graph...
  


 I'll most likely be pairing them with Sonarworks Reference 3...
  
 http://sonarworks.com/headphones/overview/
  
 As these are the 'newer' type, are the earcup (or any other) mods still worth doing?

 Running direct from a Prism Lyra atm, I may stick a V200 in the chain.


----------



## gnomen

jynxed said:


> That is interesting that you have said makes the deal I was offered with the hdvd800 sound even better, I understand it is the same amp.


 

 I have auditioned the HDVD800 extensively although I ended up buying a Hugo TT.  As others have said the HDVD800 is a great amp with a modest DAC section, not a match for the Chord offerings IMHO, but still a great piece of kit and good value at the suggested retail price.  Bear in mind it was purpose-designed to match the HD800 by engineers who sure know what they are doing.  For example, it is somewhat darker in tone which most would say suits the HD800s because they can be considered a bit bright (not by me, though).  With the balanced cable it is a well thought-out choice at an excellent price and an easy one to live with. 
  
 Prices for the HD800 are lower at the moment because of the release of the HD800S, but a fair number of listeners are sticking with their originals (me included).  Some dealers (e.g. HiFi Lounge here in the UK) are offering good trade-ins on the HD800S then selling the traded HD800 model for around £600.  So the headphone price is not such a fantastic deal compared to the current market.  However, the amp price is excellent and the overall package very fair.
  
 If it was me I would take the package.  Live with it for six or twelve months then explore getting a better DAC (such as those by Chord or Schiit, or I guess, many others recommended on this forum), thus using just the amp section of the HDVD800.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## Mortalcoil

yoga said:


> As these are the 'newer' type, are the earcup (or any other) mods still worth doing?
> 
> Running direct from a Prism Lyra atm, I may stick a V200 in the chain.


 
  
  Worth doing the Anax mod IMO.
  
 Rounds off the treble ever so slightly while still maintaining the detail.


----------



## Zombie_X

Hey guys,
  
 It's with a heavy heart that I have to say my wallet has pretty much been murdered by a purchase of the hd800. That's right, Mr. Beyerdynamic himself bought some HD800's.
  
 I couldn't help it, Amazon had them for $1,140 this morning and I bought a pair, and yes directly from Amazon, not a third party seller. They'll be here in tomorrow actually, shipped from Madison early this morning, and I'm in Milwaukee. I'm far to anxious. I nkow, I said I'd never buy a set of these, but I got oh so tempted and that price pushed me over the edge.
  
 Now my top three high end cans are the: HD800, T1, and HD700.


----------



## defbear

zombie_x said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> It's with a heavy heart that I have to say my wallet has pretty much been murdered by a purchase of the hd800. That's right, Mr. Beyerdynamic himself bought some HD800's.
> 
> ...


Congratulations, good job! I paid the same on Amazon one weekend months ago. Go balanced if possible. Don't feel bad about the Money. I bet you sell the HD700's.


----------



## Zombie_X

Sell the HD700's? They excel with metal and rock. They are quite exceptional and don't deserve the flack the get. They won't be going anywhere.
  
 And for going balanced, I already have a cable made up for these. I bought some HD800 connectors a few weeks back in anticipation of this moment, and made a HD800 cable out of some UPOCC wire.


----------



## georgelai57

zombie_x said:


> Sell the HD700's? They excel with metal and rock. They are quite exceptional and don't deserve the flack the get. They won't be going anywhere.
> 
> And for going balanced, I already have a cable made up for these. I bought some HD800 connectors a few weeks back in anticipation of this moment, and made a HD800 cable out of some UPOCC wire.



Here I am in Singapore waiting to pull the trigger. I think I shall as it is less than US$1140 here.


----------



## Zombie_X

georgelai57 said:


> Here I am in Singapore waiting to pull the trigger. I think I shall as it is less than US$1140 here.


 
  
 Not bad at all! I am super anxious. I think they'll be on par with my T1, but I've had this itch for quite a while. And now that dream will be a reality.


----------



## jynxed

Thanks for all the advice, I am going back this afternoon to have a second listen and I am almost certain I will go for it. The deal offered is just too good. 

The shop has an excelent reputation, and the kit is in pristene condition, headphines are nit even burned in. The balanced cable is the official Senheiser one, so we are talking near to £3k worth of stuff, just a couple of months worth of use on it all.

I will see if I can have a 30 day warrenty as I was advised, but Im pretty sure he said this was included.

A little excited right now


----------



## Moonhead

Enjoy and remeber to bring your favorite tracks and let us know what happens


----------



## Arniesb

zombie_x said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> It's with a heavy heart that I have to say my wallet has pretty much been murdered by a purchase of the hd800. That's right, Mr. Beyerdynamic himself bought some HD800's.
> 
> ...


 Exuse me, but why you didn't go for HD800S? Its because of price difference or i guess you like brighter cans?


----------



## shultzee

zombie_x said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> It's with a heavy heart that I have to say my wallet has pretty much been murdered by a purchase of the hd800. That's right, Mr. Beyerdynamic himself bought some HD800's.
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats.  You will love it I am sure.


----------



## Fido2

Congrats Zombie! I love my HD800 with metal and everything else. Absolutely superb with classical and instrumental.


----------



## rawrster

So recently I've gone through some changes in my computer setup where now all I have is a laptop and spend a lot less time at home than previously so time with my HD800 is limited. Actually it's so limited I haven't touched my home setup in months (3 or more). I have a Violectric V800 dac and Auralic Taurus amp. I'm thinking of consolidating into an all in one device that takes up less retail space than my current setup and keeping the HD800 or downgrading to an all in one and a lower tier headphone. I know option two probably revokes my audiophile rights around here but it is what it is.
  
 If I were to sell my dac and amp and go for an all in one, are there any decent options that can serve the HD800 well that doesn't take up too much space. Since my current setup is too good for my uses (or lack of use) I wouldn't want to spend more than 1k on it. I know companies such as audio gd have a bunch of all in one's but they take up a lot of retail space, are heavy and located in China so customer support/language barrier could potentially be an issue.
  
 Of course I am in no rush since my current setup is pretty much my "end game" setup but I see no point in having close to 3k in components I don't use.


----------



## jynxed

Had my second listen today with music I know this time, and it was a really enjoyable experiance, feel very lucky this unit is coming home with me. Left a deposit and will be picking it up either tomorrow or Friday. A couple of suprises where the fact that the bass was not at all underwhelming like some people complain of, and I didnt find the treble too peaky (although maybe thats because of the hdvd 800?). 
 
I went for the whole package in the end as it was too good a bargin, so HD800, a hdvd800, se and sennheiser ballanced thrown in. 
 
I cant wait for a good few days with it and really start to get to know it more than just initial quick impressions from a couple of 45 min listening sessions.


Edit: HD800 not 600


----------



## lovethatsound

jynxed said:


> Had my second listen today with music I know this time, and it was a really enjoyable experiance, feel very lucky this unit is coming home with me. Left a deposit and will be picking it up either tomorrow or Friday. A couple of suprises where the fact that the bass was not at all underwhelming like some people complain of, and I didnt find the treble too peaky (although maybe thats because of the hdvd 800?).
> 
> I went for the whole package in the end as it was too good a bargin, so HD600, a hdvd800, se and sennheiser ballanced thrown in.
> 
> I cant wait for a good few days with it and really start to get to know it more than just initial quick impressions from a couple of 45 min listening sessions.


you've got a great bargain their,and the best of it is,if you ever feel like an upgrade,all you have to do is change the dac.ENJOY


----------



## sheldaze

rawrster said:


> So recently I've gone through some changes in my computer setup where now all I have is a laptop and spend a lot less time at home than previously so time with my HD800 is limited. Actually it's so limited I haven't touched my home setup in months (3 or more). I have a Violectric V800 dac and Auralic Taurus amp. I'm thinking of consolidating into an all in one device that takes up less retail space than my current setup and keeping the HD800 or downgrading to an all in one and a lower tier headphone. I know option two probably revokes my audiophile rights around here but it is what it is.
> 
> If I were to sell my dac and amp and go for an all in one, are there any decent options that can serve the HD800 well that doesn't take up too much space. Since my current setup is too good for my uses (or lack of use) I wouldn't want to spend more than 1k on it. I know companies such as audio gd have a bunch of all in one's but they take up a lot of retail space, are heavy and located in China so customer support/language barrier could potentially be an issue.
> 
> Of course I am in no rush since my current setup is pretty much my "end game" setup but I see no point in having close to 3k in components I don't use.


 
 Have you taken a look at the Grace Design m9xx?
 It surprised me how good it sounded on my HD800. I don't know if it meets your expectations of desktop real-estate.


----------



## Zoom25

rawrster said:


> So recently I've gone through some changes in my computer setup where now all I have is a laptop and spend a lot less time at home than previously so time with my HD800 is limited. Actually it's so limited I haven't touched my home setup in months (3 or more). I have a Violectric V800 dac and Auralic Taurus amp. I'm thinking of consolidating into an all in one device that takes up less retail space than my current setup and keeping the HD800 or downgrading to an all in one and a lower tier headphone. I know option two probably revokes my audiophile rights around here but it is what it is.
> 
> If I were to sell my dac and amp and go for an all in one,* are there any decent options that can serve the HD800 well that doesn't take up too much space*. Since my current setup is too good for my uses (or lack of use) I wouldn't want to spend more than 1k on it. I know companies such as audio gd have a bunch of all in one's but they take up a lot of retail space, are heavy and located in China so customer support/language barrier could potentially be an issue.
> 
> Of course I am in no rush since my current setup is pretty much my "end game" setup but I see no point in having close to 3k in components I don't use.


 
  
 Dangerous Music Source. Takes little space, fits within a backpack. Excellent features. Can really improve the sound if you add a linear power supply down the road (Teradak 12V13A for me). I find it a very good match with HD 800. American company for studio gear.


----------



## gnomen

jynxed said:


> Had my second listen today with music I know this time, and it was a really enjoyable experiance, feel very lucky this unit is coming home with me. Left a deposit and will be picking it up either tomorrow or Friday. A couple of suprises where the fact that the bass was not at all underwhelming like some people complain of, and I didnt find the treble too peaky (although maybe thats because of the hdvd 800?).
> 
> I went for the whole package in the end as it was too good a bargin, so HD800, a hdvd800, se and sennheiser ballanced thrown in.
> 
> ...


 

 Happy listening. Years of it.  You cannot go wrong with this level of quality!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

rawrster said:


> So recently I've gone through some changes in my computer setup where now all I have is a laptop and spend a lot less time at home than previously so time with my HD800 is limited. Actually it's so limited I haven't touched my home setup in months (3 or more). I have a Violectric V800 dac and Auralic Taurus amp. I'm thinking of consolidating into an all in one device that takes up less retail space than my current setup and keeping the HD800 or downgrading to an all in one and a lower tier headphone. I know option two probably revokes my audiophile rights around here but it is what it is.
> 
> If I were to sell my dac and amp and go for an all in one, are there any decent options that can serve the HD800 well that doesn't take up too much space. Since my current setup is too good for my uses (or lack of use) I wouldn't want to spend more than 1k on it. I know companies such as audio gd have a bunch of all in one's but they take up a lot of retail space, are heavy and located in China so customer support/language barrier could potentially be an issue.
> 
> Of course I am in no rush since my current setup is pretty much my "end game" setup but I see no point in having close to 3k in components I don't use.


 
 Why not sell everything and go with the new AKG N90Q? It basically owns super-high-end portability.


----------



## Hansotek

rawrster said:


> So recently I've gone through some changes in my computer setup where now all I have is a laptop and spend a lot less time at home than previously so time with my HD800 is limited. Actually it's so limited I haven't touched my home setup in months (3 or more). I have a Violectric V800 dac and Auralic Taurus amp. I'm thinking of consolidating into an all in one device that takes up less retail space than my current setup and keeping the HD800 or downgrading to an all in one and a lower tier headphone. I know option two probably revokes my audiophile rights around here but it is what it is.
> 
> If I were to sell my dac and amp and go for an all in one, are there any decent options that can serve the HD800 well that doesn't take up too much space. Since my current setup is too good for my uses (or lack of use) I wouldn't want to spend more than 1k on it. I know companies such as audio gd have a bunch of all in one's but they take up a lot of retail space, are heavy and located in China so customer support/language barrier could potentially be an issue.
> 
> Of course I am in no rush since my current setup is pretty much my "end game" setup but I see no point in having close to 3k in components I don't use.


 
  
 It would be worth trying the Chord Mojo. It is absolutely tiny and it actually does surprisingly well with the HD800.


----------



## JaZZ

hansotek said:


> rawrster said:
> 
> 
> > So recently I've gone through some changes in my computer setup where now all I have is a laptop and spend a lot less time at home than previously so time with my HD800 is limited. Actually it's so limited I haven't touched my home setup in months (3 or more). I have a Violectric V800 dac and Auralic Taurus amp. I'm thinking of consolidating into an all in one device that takes up less retail space than my current setup and keeping the HD800 or downgrading to an all in one and a lower tier headphone. I know option two probably revokes my audiophile rights around here but it is what it is.
> ...


 
  
 I agree. That would be my recommendation as well. Technically it is certainly ahead of everything in its price category, not to speak of size category.


----------



## Maxx134

zombie_x said:


> And for going balanced, I already have a cable made up for these. I bought some HD800 connectors a few weeks back in anticipation of this moment, and made a HD800 cable out of some UPOCC wire.



I too bought the largest HD800 connectors I could find and made my Draug2 cable with them,


But in the end, the connection was sooooo super tiny that they kept breaking from wire inside...

This tiny garbage HD800 connector was such a stupid idiot idea for Sennheiser that I had to hard-wire my cable:

Yet being stuck with one cable has its benifit and drawbacks,
And I wanted to try some other wires, 
So in the end, I had to go get bold and install mini XLR connectors :

It took some daring hole drilling to resize the hole bigger,
And had to go in at a slight forward angle.

But finnally I have the best solution for my HD800, and a new paint job can't hurt.


----------



## MrMan

My good friend peterek got ahold of my hd800 and shortly had to have them. So I sold him my headphones. In no times he was trying different painting techniques on them. After painting these he said he wanted to try something different.


----------



## Zombie_X

Well I am super impressed with my HD800. I've heard them on several occasions ( my old gear and at meets), but on my V800 DAC and Phonitor Mini... it's just amazing. You'd think having a T1 and HD700 would give you an idea of what to expect...but It's so drastically different from what I remember hearing. Maybe it was the Music Hall DAC and X-CANV8P limiting the HD800 in the past... but it's different now.
  
 Full impressions are here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/398829/the-sennheiser-hd-800-the-first-listen-the-first-review/5850#post_12371321


----------



## Sorrodje

rawrster said:


> So recently I've gone through some changes in my computer setup where now all I have is a laptop and spend a lot less time at home than previously so time with my HD800 is limited. Actually it's so limited I haven't touched my home setup in months (3 or more). I have a Violectric V800 dac and Auralic Taurus amp. I'm thinking of consolidating into an all in one device that takes up less retail space than my current setup and keeping the HD800 or downgrading to an all in one and a lower tier headphone. I know option two probably revokes my audiophile rights around here but it is what it is.
> 
> If I were to sell my dac and amp and go for an all in one, are there any decent options that can serve the HD800 well that doesn't take up too much space. Since my current setup is too good for my uses (or lack of use) I wouldn't want to spend more than 1k on it. I know companies such as audio gd have a bunch of all in one's but they take up a lot of retail space, are heavy and located in China so customer support/language barrier could potentially be an issue.
> 
> Of course I am in no rush since my current setup is pretty much my "end game" setup but I see no point in having close to 3k in components I don't use.




Geek out v2. I could easily live with the GOv2/hd800 combo. Balanced mode is astonishingly good with hd6x0 and hd800.


----------



## Maxx134

mrman said:


> My good friend peterek got ahold of my hd800 and shortly had to have them. So I sold him my headphones. In no times he was trying different painting techniques on them. After painting these he said he wanted to try something different.



How in the world did he get a marble finish!
Wow!


----------



## Maxx134

sorrodje said:


> Geek out v2. I could easily live with the GOv2/hd800 combo. Balanced mode is astonishingly good with hd6x0 and hd800.



I remember the Geek out first version was astonishingly good, lol
So I can imagine the V2 to be really really high level .


----------



## leng jai

zombie_x said:


> Well I am super impressed with my HD800. I've heard them on several occasions ( my old gear and at meets), but on my V800 DAC and Phonitor Mini... it's just amazing. You'd think having a T1 and HD700 would give you an idea of what to expect...but It's so drastically different from what I remember hearing. Maybe it was the Music Hall DAC and X-CANV8P limiting the HD800 in the past... but it's different now.
> 
> Full impressions are here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/398829/the-sennheiser-hd-800-the-first-listen-the-first-review/5850#post_12371321


 

 I spent 5 years with the T1 before moving onto to the HD800 last year. I agree with most of your early summation. The HD800 is a superior phone in every facet aside from mid bass quantity, which it trades off for more depth. The mid range in particular is significantly better and just has more resolution. Unfortunately the treble response is a little bit troublesome for me, but I actually blame that on harsh recordings a lot of the time. The solution for me is listening at slightly lower volumes than normal, and the HD800 is one of the few headphones that don't lose all their dynamics when at low volumes. Another thing that isn't mentioned as much is the comfort - you can wear these things for hours with no ill effects thanks to the huge cups.
  
 Overall I think the sound signatures are very similar, to the point where I don't believe it's worth keeping both. I'm just keeping the T1s as backup since the resell value is pretty low these days.


----------



## Zombie_X

leng jai said:


> I spent 5 years with the T1 before moving onto to the HD800 last year. I agree with most of your early summation. The HD800 is a superior phone in every facet aside from mid bass quantity, which it trades off for more depth. The mid range in particular is significantly better and just has more resolution. Unfortunately the treble response is a little bit troublesome for me, but I actually blame that on harsh recordings a lot of the time. The solution for me is listening at slightly lower volumes than normal, and the HD800 is one of the few headphones that don't lose all their dynamics when at low volumes. Another thing that isn't mentioned as much is the comfort - you can wear these things for hours with no ill effects thanks to the huge cups.
> 
> Overall I think the sound signatures are very similar, to the point where I don't believe it's worth keeping both. I'm just keeping the T1s as backup since the resell value is pretty low these days.


 
  
 See I don't think they sound the same at all on my rig. The HD800 has quite a bit more bass than my T1, though the T1's is tighter. Treble sounds a bit edgy on the T1 while it's extended and smooth on the HD800. Midrange is where we see the biggest difference. The HD800's midrange is so pure sounding, smooth, and very articulate. The T1 sounds harder and not as detailed or transparent.


----------



## leng jai

zombie_x said:


> See I don't think they sound the same at all on my rig. The HD800 has quite a bit more bass than my T1, though the T1's is tighter. Treble sounds a bit edgy on the T1 while it's extended and smooth on the HD800. Midrange is where we see the biggest difference. The HD800's midrange is so pure sounding, smooth, and very articulate. The T1 sounds harder and not as detailed or transparent.


 

 To me it's the same sound signature, but the HD800 is just plain better on a technical level. Maybe it's because of my amp but I definitely have more mid-bass on the T1s. I actually find detail levels pretty similar between the two cans, but sound stage is no contest.


----------



## Zombie_X

leng jai said:


> To me it's the same sound signature, but the HD800 is just plain better on a technical level. Maybe it's because of my amp but I definitely have more mid-bass on the T1s. I actually find detail levels pretty similar between the two cans, but sound stage is no contest.


 
  
 I guess we'll agree to disagree. That's what cool with this hobby. My headphone could sound different on another rig, and people can discuss this.
  
 I've been listening to mine a lot today. Really love the soundstage on these. Super big and airy. Bass and midrange presentation is one of my favorite things about these headphones.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

DavidMahler adjudicated the bass complaint issue with the HD800 in his battle of the flagships—the cans are unusually amp dependent, and can sound warm on one rig and cold on another. Find an amp that works for you; the HD800s will deliver.


----------



## Moonhead

Im considering an extra HD800 for this bargain price..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SENNHEISER-HD800-HD-800-HEADPHONES-NEW-BOXED-FACTORY-SEALED-OFFICIAL-WARRANTY-/121859872169?hash=item1c5f6a15a9:g:NKsAAOSw~bFWNgLW


----------



## paulchiu

moonhead said:


> Im considering an extra HD800 for this bargain price..
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SENNHEISER-HD800-HD-800-HEADPHONES-NEW-BOXED-FACTORY-SEALED-OFFICIAL-WARRANTY-/121859872169?hash=item1c5f6a15a9:g:NKsAAOSw~bFWNgLW


 
  
 great price for new.  Last one.!


----------



## thecrow

moonhead said:


> Im considering an extra HD800 for this bargain price..
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SENNHEISER-HD800-HD-800-HEADPHONES-NEW-BOXED-FACTORY-SEALED-OFFICIAL-WARRANTY-/121859872169?hash=item1c5f6a15a9:g:NKsAAOSw~bFWNgLW


Don't be ridiculous!!!

You already have a pair. Save that for another hot deal that might come along. Eg an Audeze, a he560. Whatever suits that would be different to what you have that you might want. 

Let me be the one that reminds you of some common sense, for crying out loud. 

(Just like I sometimes need)


----------



## Dadracer

No mate go ahead and I have been thinking the same thing since I spent a morning comparing a pair of the new HD800S to my own HD800s this week. At this price they are the HiFi bargain of the year.


----------



## Moonhead

Maybe last one, but the seller keeps gettin new stock and at that price it makes no sense gettin them secondhand. 
 Would like to spoil my father but I have to save money for a house. 
  
 If I where to get some new cans I would get Stax 007 again.


----------



## thecrow

dadracer said:


> No mate go ahead and I have been thinking the same thing since I spent a morning comparing a pair of the new HD800S to my own HD800s this week. At this price they are the HiFi bargain of the year.


No! He already has a pair.


----------



## Dadracer

Are you telling me there is or was nothing in YOUR entire life that you had more than one pair of???? 
  
 His money, his choice, his headphones.................


----------



## thecrow

dadracer said:


> Are you telling me there is or was nothing in YOUR entire life that you had more than one pair of????
> 
> His money, his choice, his headphones.................


Absolutely. And sometimes the guy on the left wins and sometimes the guy on the right wins. 


and sometimes I need one of these


----------



## Moonhead

Good one, mate


----------



## jynxed

So my husband is not really in to music, he has a very narrow range of tastes - the upshot of this though is that he knows what music he listens too should sound like.
  
 He asked to have a listen to something he would like - I know he loves Radiohead so I stuck Paranoid Android; he listens to ok computer  and Kid A alot on is it has quite a lot of different things going on, so I thought it would show a decent amount of detail off. He listened to that a few bits from Kid A and a few other things. 
  
 After about 45 mins he came off the computer and just said he didnt like the HD800 as they where too detailed and he couldn't relax and enjoy the music because he was concentrating on the details so much. He loves the set of X2's I have so looks like I dont have to share these ones like my others


----------



## Dadracer

thecrow said:


> dadracer said:
> 
> 
> > Are you telling me there is or was nothing in YOUR entire life that you had more than one pair of????
> ...


 
 Ok so never more than one pair of shoes, trousers, underwear, socks, headphones, teeth, spectacles or anything? Fair enough then but I can also understand why you need an occasional "wake up" call.....


----------



## rawrster

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I think I will go with the Chord Mojo since that will also play well with my smartphone. I was thinking of getting one anyway so two birds with one stone in a way. I am skeptical about the Mojo with the HD800 but I will need an adapter to 3.5mm to find out myself.
  
 I could probably sell the HD800 but I'm not sure that's an idea I want to entertain at this time. This is my end game headphone and the most enjoyable headphone I've owned or heard. With my luck I will sell the HD800 for the 3rd time, regret it a day later and then repurchase it.


----------



## sysfail

I love my modded HD800, though sometimes I want a more fun sound. I have my TH-X00 for that but I decided to experiment with EQ on the HD800. Spent about a day with it and realized you can really tailor these things to sound anyway you like. Trick is to keep adjustments very small, I kept everything within 1db, at most 1.5db from 0db. They start to "muddy" up with extreme adjustments. I tailored mine to have a tad less of the treble spike and a bit more low end, and now these things sound absolutely fun. Incredible headphones!


----------



## JaZZ

sysfail said:


> I love my modded HD800, though sometimes I want a more fun sound. I have my TH-X00 for that but* I decided to experiment with EQ on the HD800. Spent about a day with it and realized you can really tailor these things to sound anyway you like.* Trick is to keep adjustments very small, I kept everything within 1db, at most 1.5db from 0db. They start to "muddy" up with extreme adjustments. I tailored mine to have a tad less of the treble spike and a bit more low end, and now these things sound absolutely fun. Incredible headphones!


 
  
 That's the Spirit! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 BTW, in the low bass (20-31 Hz) you can absolutely risk something like +3 or even +5 dB.


----------



## Arniesb

sysfail said:


> I love my modded HD800, though sometimes I want a more fun sound. I have my TH-X00 for that but I decided to experiment with EQ on the HD800. Spent about a day with it and realized you can really tailor these things to sound anyway you like. Trick is to keep adjustments very small, I kept everything within 1db, at most 1.5db from 0db. They start to "muddy" up with extreme adjustments. I tailored mine to have a tad less of the treble spike and a bit more low end, and now these things sound absolutely fun. Incredible headphones!


 After you eq it. Soundstage is lessened? Maybe a bit added warmness from eq can make it a bit more forgiving? Thanks.


----------



## sysfail

jazz said:


> That's the Spirit!
> 
> BTW, in the low bass (20-31 Hz) you can absolutely risk something like +3 or even +5 dB.




I tried that but then the bass was way too overpowering. I'm not a big basshead. 



arniesb said:


> After you eq it. Soundstage is lessened? Maybe a bit added warmness from eq can make it a bit more forgiving? Thanks.




You'll lose a bit of that "air" the HD800 is known for. Soundstage will be brought in a little as well, though the impeccable imaging/positioning will still be there. You can definitely "warm up" and add "meat" to the sound at will.


----------



## Arniesb

sysfail said:


> I tried that but then the bass was way too overpowering. I'm not a big basshead.
> You'll lose a bit of that "air" the HD800 is known for. Soundstage will be brought in a little as well, though the impeccable imaging/positioning will still be there. You can definitely "warm up" and add "meat" to the sound at will.


 Thank you.


----------



## jamesino

Is the first-gen Modi/Magni enough to drive the HD 800?
  
 Would this be an upgrade coming from an HD 650 driven by the Magni/Modi?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Will it drive them? Sure. Would I want to hear an HD800 driven by them? That's a different story...I'd spring for Vali 2.


----------



## bearFNF

I would NOT recommend the magni modi for the HD800. Vali would be better. Modi is marginal, also. IMO/YMMV etc...


----------



## thecrow

dadracer said:


> Ok so never more than one pair of shoes, trousers, underwear, socks, headphones, teeth, spectacles or anything? Fair enough then but I can also understand why you need an occasional "wake up" call.....


Why would anyone buy more than two pairs of underpants? What a waste of money


----------



## Zombie_X

The first gen amps Modi/Magni would drive the HD800 perfectly fine, but it wouldn't sound all the impressive. The Magni seems to make them brighter than they are normally. 
  
 As others said, the Vali 2 is a much better option. Though I don't think the HD800 sounds better with tubes.


----------



## thecrow

jamesino said:


> Is the first-gen Modi/Magni enough to drive the HD 800?
> 
> Would this be an upgrade coming from an HD 650 driven by the Magni/Modi?


Hi. I'm with most people here. You can get away with the magni/modi, or as I initially did with the o2/odac, but better amps will allow the hd800 to shine even more. 

I went from the o2/odac to the soloist/irdac combo to now using a tube amp (the wa2) which is a great amp for the hd800. I also bought a top end dac (Metrum hex) and now I'm set. Everything was second hand except the tube amp. 

Since I loved the hd800 when I heard and confidently decided these were what I wanted I took the advice of slowly building my system around it. 

The hd800 is still going to show what it does with the magni/modi (soundstage, detail, and all that stuff) but it will just get better as you upgrade your stuff to better and more suitable products that will really open it up more. 

As people are always upgrading their stuff you can save 30% off on second hand good gear and move on to a bigger levels for minimum losses when you resell them (in a lot of cases). 

Good luck with your journey on it. 

By the way the hd650 also sounds better with better gear but they won't have the detail or balance of the hd800.


----------



## thecrow

Hi. Reposting the post as I had no response in the anax mod thread that has been dormant for a year or two: 

New to the idea of modding my hd800's but, hey .......why not.

I just picked up some 1.8mm smooth foam sheets (with aggressive backing). The felt sheet on the tip of that, that for example tyl uses, how important is that and what does it do or add?

I guess this is a sick and see approach but is there a theory to the using of that felt and any ideas/experience here?

Thanks


----------



## Dadracer

How aggressive is the backing on those foam sheets?


----------



## thecrow

dadracer said:


> How aggressive is the backing on those foam sheets?:blink:


 I chose foam sheets that are quite smooth.


----------



## Solarium

zombie_x said:


> Well I am super impressed with my HD800. I've heard them on several occasions ( my old gear and at meets), but on my V800 DAC and Phonitor Mini... it's just amazing. You'd think having a T1 and HD700 would give you an idea of what to expect...but It's so drastically different from what I remember hearing. Maybe it was the Music Hall DAC and X-CANV8P limiting the HD800 in the past... but it's different now.
> 
> Full impressions are here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/398829/the-sennheiser-hd-800-the-first-listen-the-first-review/5850#post_12371321


 

 I've had the same upgrade path, had the HD700, then the T1 and now the HD800. Honestly there's no need to have the HD700 anymore after having both T1 and HD800, and I sold it recently. T1 still sounds better with EDM genre and definitely more exciting and engaging, and has more tighter bass and more impact as well. However, I do agree that overall the HD800 may be a better overall headphone, and sounds absolutely superb with any intrumentals. In fact it changed my taste in music, as it leans more towards Chillstep/ambience EDM than what I've listened to before which is more house and dance. I'm not sure why people say both headphones are similar, to my experience that sound drastically different. It also respond to changes upstream better than the T1, as I notice more of a change going from my STX II to the m9XX using the HD800 than the T1. Honestly I am extremely impressed with the m9XX and think it's practically built for the HD800, and all these talks about not having enough amp juice to power definitely don't apply to the HD800 as I use only 70-72 volume on it (and I believe the control is decibel based). I don't agree that the HD800 is worth more than $300 than the T1 though, as I think the T1 is still a very capable phone and has a more "realistic" soundstage and better imaging than the HD800, tighter and more bass impact, more liquid and organic texture to the sound, more involving and emotional as well. I do agree with the general consensus that the HD800 can sound a bit too clinical, but the overall presentation as a whole package is more appealing. At this point I'm not ready to let my T1 go yet, maybe at a point where I find myself consistently reaching for the HD800.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

You might upgrade from T1 to HE6. I haven't heard the T1, but i can't imagine something imaging with more pinpoint accuracy than the HD800. It's just supremely accurate.


----------



## Moonhead

I agree with Bosie.. As I used to own 009 and then 007MKI, 
Stax are more true to the Sound of the any instrument, but nothing beats HD800 in timing/pinpoint accuracy. 
I Would take HD800 in any Electronica genre, but for Real life instruments i Would take Stax 007.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Maybe the original omega? But even that's a stretch, and frankly irrelevant because so few exist.


----------



## Moonhead

I doubt that Omega could match HD800 accuracy, but Never listen to it so My opinion is invalid plus I really don't care for ridiculous priced headphone that's out of production.


----------



## paulchiu

moonhead said:


> I doubt that Omega could match HD800 accuracy, but Never listen to it so My opinion is invalid plus I really don't care for ridiculous priced headphone that's out of production.


 
  
 The old Stax, Omega and Lambda do not match current HD800's accuracy. I still have them.


----------



## Sorrodje

moonhead said:


> I agree with Bosie.. As I used to own 009 and then 007MKI,
> Stax are more true to the Sound of the any instrument, but nothing beats HD800 in timing/pinpoint accuracy.
> I Would take HD800 in any Electronica genre, but for Real life instruments i Would take Stax 007.


 
  
 HD800S or modded HD800 brings IMO some substantial improvements for timbre accuracy but yea I still pick my HE60 if I want the best and the most accurate timbres. Never heard seriously the 007 so I can't know for that one.


----------



## Zombie_X

solarium said:


> I've had the same upgrade path, had the HD700, then the T1 and now the HD800. Honestly there's no need to have the HD700 anymore after having both T1 and HD800, and I sold it recently. T1 still sounds better with EDM genre and definitely more exciting and engaging, and has more tighter bass and more impact as well. However, I do agree that overall the HD800 may be a better overall headphone, and sounds absolutely superb with any intrumentals. In fact it changed my taste in music, as it leans more towards Chillstep/ambience EDM than what I've listened to before which is more house and dance. I'm not sure why people say both headphones are similar, to my experience that sound drastically different. It also respond to changes upstream better than the T1, as I notice more of a change going from my STX II to the m9XX using the HD800 than the T1. Honestly I am extremely impressed with the m9XX and think it's practically built for the HD800, and all these talks about not having enough amp juice to power definitely don't apply to the HD800 as I use only 70-72 volume on it (and I believe the control is decibel based). I don't agree that the HD800 is worth more than $300 than the T1 though, as I think the T1 is still a very capable phone and has a more "realistic" soundstage and better imaging than the HD800, tighter and more bass impact, more liquid and organic texture to the sound, more involving and emotional as well. I do agree with the general consensus that the HD800 can sound a bit too clinical, but the overall presentation as a whole package is more appealing. At this point I'm not ready to let my T1 go yet, maybe at a point where I find myself consistently reaching for the HD800.


 
  
 On my Phonitor Mini, the HD800 has more bass quantity and impact than the T1, but is less tight. It's odd really. 
  
 But the HD700 isn't going to be sold off at all. I still use them for gaming and they work really well for it!


----------



## leng jai

I actually can't imagine any headphones sounding better than the HD800s when it comes to orchestral music and soundtracks. The Force Awakens OST, Inception and The Dark Knight sound ridiculously good on these things.


----------



## Arniesb

zombie_x said:


> On my Phonitor Mini, the HD800 has more bass quantity and impact than the T1, but is less tight. It's odd really.
> 
> But the HD700 isn't going to be sold off at all. I still use them for gaming and they work really well for it!


Why dont you use hd800 for gaming? Why hd700 is better for that?


----------



## Solarium

moonhead said:


> I agree with Bosie.. As I used to own 009 and then 007MKI,
> Stax are more true to the Sound of the any instrument, but nothing beats HD800 in timing/pinpoint accuracy.
> I Would take HD800 in any Electronica genre, but for Real life instruments i Would take Stax 007.


 
 Don't you find the HD800 to be too laid back and not as engaging for EDM?
  


bosiemoncrieff said:


> You might upgrade from T1 to HE6. I haven't heard the T1, but i can't imagine something imaging with more pinpoint accuracy than the HD800. It's just supremely accurate.


 
 I really can't tolerate any of the heavier headphones, in fact the T1 is even pushing it at 350g's. Which is a shame because I'm missing out on a lot of good planars.
  
 When I play CSGO using the HD800, which I feel is the best test for soundstage accuracy and imaging, it feels like the footsteps around me are a lot farther than where they are in reality. I found that the T1 represented the distances better. The HD800 separated certain sounds more so than what they appear.
  


zombie_x said:


> On my Phonitor Mini, the HD800 has more bass quantity and impact than the T1, but is less tight. It's odd really.
> 
> But the HD700 isn't going to be sold off at all. I still use them for gaming and they work really well for it!


 
 I like to know why you like the HD700 better as well. After going to T1 and HD800, and trying the HD700 again, I could never go back. It's definitely lighter on your head and you can wear it for extended amount of time though, but perhaps it's my tastes changing, the HD700 is just too dark for me.


----------



## Moonhead

I find HD800 perfect for the electronic bands that I like and never felt that either 009 or 007 could compete with them, as they present the music so differently, as Stax has that bass bloom without the heft that dynamic or planars has, but if you want to listen to music with real acoustic intruments as in reference, Stax it is, IMO.


----------



## DavidA

arniesb said:


> Why dont you use hd800 for gaming? Why hd700 is better for that?


 
  


solarium said:


> I like to know why you like the HD700 better as well. After going to T1 and HD800, and trying the HD700 again, I could never go back. It's definitely lighter on your head and you can wear it for extended amount of time though, but perhaps it's my tastes changing, the HD700 is just too dark for me.


 
 I use the HD-700 for gaming and watching movies since its easier to drive than the HD-800, when watching movies I can just plug the HD-700 into the HT receiver and since my gaming rig is separate from my music rig the HD-700 is easily driven by STX sound card.  The other reason is to me the HD-700 gives a better surround effect, I think the HD-800 is to spaced out, too far away to be realistic.


----------



## Arniesb

davida said:


> I use the HD-700 for gaming and watching movies since its easier to drive than the HD-800, when watching movies I can just plug the HD-700 into the HT receiver and since my gaming rig is separate from my music rig the HD-700 is easily driven by STX sound card.  The other reason is to me the HD-700 gives a better surround effect, I think the HD-800 is to spaced out, too far away to be realistic.


Oh, i see. Thanks, always good to learn something new.


----------



## pietcux

arniesb said:


> Oh, i see. Thanks, always good to learn something new.



The STX can drive the HD800 for gaming and movies with ease, it has adjustable gain settings. I have a large monitor, so maybe that is why for me the HD800 suits superb with gaming.


----------



## Arniesb

pietcux said:


> The STX can drive the HD800 for gaming and movies with ease, it has adjustable gain settings. I have a large monitor, so maybe that is why for me the HD800 suits superb with gaming.


 50% usage will be for gaming for sure when i will buy HD800S. DT990 was eye opener, because i saw how more immersive games can sound with decent soundstage. Great for music and great for gaming. With 1 shot you hit 2 targets!


----------



## Solarium

pietcux said:


> The STX can drive the HD800 for gaming and movies with ease, it has adjustable gain settings. I have a large monitor, so maybe that is why for me the HD800 suits superb with gaming.


 
 It's interesting that you brought up STX. I have a STX II and I always wondered whether it was enough to drive the HD800. The reason why I got a m9XX is because I felt that I would "need" a more expensive DAC/amp to drive something like the HD800 which is supposed to be very dependent on having good gear. After getting the m9XX, while noticing a subtle difference from the STX II, I felt like it was mostly the same. Compared to your other DAC's and amps, do you feel like the STX is enough to properly drive your HD800? I felt like like using the 7.1 setting on the STX II gives me better directional sound than have an external stereo DAC/amp.


davida said:


> I use the HD-700 for gaming and watching movies since its easier to drive than the HD-800, when watching movies I can just plug the HD-700 into the HT receiver and since my gaming rig is separate from my music rig the HD-700 is easily driven by STX sound card.  The other reason is to me the HD-700 gives a better surround effect, I think the HD-800 is to spaced out, too far away to be realistic.


 
 That's why I like the T1 over the HD800 for certain things. I felt like the T1 replaced whatever I used the HD700 for and does it better in every way practically except for the comfort and weight. Every time I tried going back to the HD700 because I missed it, I couldn't use it for more than an hour. Perhaps my taste has changed and I just prefer brighter sounds now.


----------



## hekeli

Just for giggles, tried to convert Sonarworks' HD800 unrestricted profile (flat preset) to xnor's foobar2000 eq, which is popular here..
  

  
 Download: hd800_ab000b.xgeq
  
 Gives pretty good demo at what Sonarworks tries to achieve, this is how I listen most of my stuff. Of course the real thing sounds a bit better (or a lot actually, I hear reverb tails, bass etc lot more clearly) and is much more easy to tweak.. everything well worth it to support a good company.
  
 Used Voxengo SPAN to try match the outputs.. pretty close, didn't bother to tweak more..
  

  
 It's actually what you see in Sonarworks correction curve..


----------



## Taowolf51

solarium said:


> Don't you find the HD800 to be too laid back and not as engaging for EDM?


 
 Laid back? I dunno, the HD800's are many things, but laid back isn't really one of them, IMO.
 I agree with him, the HD800's are excellent for electronic. They're fast, clean, aggressive, and detailed, which is perfect for the faster and more electronic electronic music. The electronic that heavily uses recorded sounds and acoustic instruments performs extremely well with the HD800's as well because it moves even further into the HD800's strengths.
  


hekeli said:


>


 
  
 Interesting. What is Sonarwork's compensation curve? It looks very similar to raw measurements without HRTF, which seems odd.


----------



## hekeli

taowolf51 said:


> Interesting. What is Sonarwork's compensation curve? It looks very similar to raw measurements without HRTF, which seems odd.


 
  
 As they say...
  


> Our measurement curve follows the deviations from the defined target curve and corrects any dips and peaks to achieve a frequency response that will enable the system to sound like flat calibrated speakers.


 
  
 Dunno the actual curve they use during measurement, but as you can see atleast hefty subbass boost is essential. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Quite a difference from the thin HD800 sound, had to really adjust my brain for quite a while to overcome any "muffled" feelings, but now I can't listen to anything else..


----------



## JaZZ

hekeli said:


> Just for giggles, tried to convert Sonarworks' HD800 unrestricted profile (flat preset) to xnor's foobar2000 eq, which is popular here..


 
  
 That bass boost is massive. No way my pair of HD 800 has a drop-off calling for this kind of compensation. Well, it's modified, but still... Here's my xnor EQ curve posted recently in the parallel thread:
  

  
 I  have tried stronger low-bass increase as well, but it was clearly too much to my ears.


----------



## hekeli

jazz said:


> I  have tried stronger low-bass increase as well, but it was clearly too much to my ears.


 
  
 Yep depends also how much of a basshead and specific electronica listener one is. Though I listen everything non-bassy music through the same curve too.. if there's nothing in the music down below, there's nothing to affect.. but some stuff you don't even realize has it and it makes a great surprise what you are missing.
  
 But still, the target of the curve is targeting a flat speaker response. Headphones simply need volume to feel down to 20hz. And HD800 actually handles it like a champ, unlike certain wimpy planars that start crackling under pressure..


----------



## JaZZ

hekeli said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > I  have tried stronger low-bass increase as well, but it was clearly too much to my ears.
> ...


 
  
 Though not a basshead, I like bass, especially low bass. I agree, the HD 800 is very capable here. But too much is too much (well, for me). Extremely low organ notes and bass drums already sound impressive with my (moderate – I must say now) curve.


----------



## Taowolf51

hekeli said:


> As they say...
> 
> 
> Dunno the actual curve they use during measurement, but as you can see atleast hefty subbass boost is essential.
> ...


 
  
 Interesting, perhaps they use something similar to Olive-Welti.


----------



## jibzilla

taowolf51 said:


> Laid back? I dunno, the HD800's are many things, but laid back isn't really one of them, IMO.
> I agree with him, the HD800's are excellent for electronic. They're fast, clean, aggressive, and detailed, which is perfect for the faster and more electronic electronic music. The electronic that heavily uses recorded sounds and acoustic instruments performs extremely well with the HD800's as well because it moves even further into the HD800's strengths.
> 
> 
> Interesting. What is Sonarwork's compensation curve? It looks very similar to raw measurements without HRTF, which seems odd.


 
  
 Yeah I agree that the hd800 are anything but laidback and that the detailed clean sound somewhat lends itself to electronic. However they are just not voiced for electronic. I would actually go as far to say they are the polar opposite what you want for electronic. Bass light with a treble spike. Yes you can EQ the hd800 but I think your much better off getting a headphone that is voiced for electronic that has a slightly rolled off treble and full sounding bass.
  
 The original Audeze ambassadors of yore was the who's who of dnb. If you don't want to take my word maybe Goldie, Bailey and Reid Speed? The lcd-X is to die for with electronic. The hd800...well that is rock in my books...at least to me that is what the hd800's are voiced for.


----------



## JaZZ

So I had to get a bit more extreme to hear what they were actually thinking...
  

  
 So far I like it quite a bit. But no intention to go any higher above 50 Hz.


----------



## DavidA

solarium said:


> It's interesting that you brought up STX. I have a STX II and I always wondered whether it was enough to drive the HD800. The reason why I got a m9XX is because I felt that I would "need" a more expensive DAC/amp to drive something like the HD800 which is supposed to be very dependent on having good gear. After getting the m9XX, while noticing a subtle difference from the STX II, I felt like it was mostly the same. Compared to your other DAC's and amps, do you feel like the STX is enough to properly drive your HD800? I felt like like using the 7.1 setting on the STX II gives me better directional sound than have an external stereo DAC/amp.
> That's why I like the T1 over the HD800 for certain things. I felt like the T1 replaced whatever I used the HD700 for and does it better in every way practically except for the comfort and weight. Every time I tried going back to the HD700 because I missed it, I couldn't use it for more than an hour. Perhaps my taste has changed and I just prefer brighter sounds now.


 
 Another reason I don't use the HD-800 or T-1 for gaming is that to me the STX does not drive either of them properly, they can be overly bright, sometimes harsh sounding and also thin sounding, to me a least.  But on my BH Crack both the HD-800 and T-1 sound great, smooth and mellow with good clarity and a sound that I enjoy.  I don't want to keep moving the BH Crack from one computer to another so the HD-700 fits that roll being easier to drive and provides me that nice surround effect for gaming and movie watching from either the STX or HT receiver.
  
 If the T-1 works for you that great, and if you say your taste has changed to prefer brighter sounds that is possible since we are getting older and they say that the ability to hear high frequency starts to diminish with age, I know mine has.


----------



## Zombie_X

DavidA, That's exactly why I kept my HD700 for gaming. I am not going to lug an amp into another room anytime I want to play a game. Plus they are a lot easier to drive from smaller sources.
  
 The HD700 is still a very good headphone, even at it's now reduced price.


----------



## leng jai

That makes sense. I'm lucky that my entire setup is shared between my PS4, PC and Oppo player.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

If you're after electronic, it seems to me HE6 should be your destination. It's fast, aggressive, tight, and has plenty of bass and detail—what's not to like?


----------



## jibzilla

He-6 is still to bright imo with electronic. Lcd-X is also better build quality imo.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

try it with the WA5


----------



## Moonhead

HE6 has a etchy unnatural treble like most Beyer cans, IMO.
If HD800 is Bright then its because your listening to a poor Master recording.


----------



## hekeli

moonhead said:


> If HD800 is Bright then its because your listening to a poor Master recording.


 
  
 Don't forget bad amps! I've heard certain Superlux amp for $100 makes everything silky smooth and magically eqs 6khz down by 5dB.


----------



## sheldaze

moonhead said:


> HE6 has a etchy unnatural treble like most Beyer cans, IMO.
> If HD800 is Bright then its because your listening to a poor Master recording.


 
 I'll second the amps statement, without the silly.
  
 The first time I heard HD800 on my own equipment was on JDS Labs The Element. I have had a vastly different experience of late. I was glad I was able to surprise many a first time listener this past weekend at a headphone meet by having them listen on DNA Sonett.


----------



## jynxed

The deal I was offerd £1200 for 2nd hand hdvd800, hd800 and ballanced cable just became even better. Looks like the serial nubmers where never registered with Sennheiser - so seems I have the 2 year warrenty.....


----------



## DavidA

jynxed said:


> The deal I was offerd £1200 for 2nd hand hdvd800, hd800 and ballanced cable just became even better. Looks like the serial nubmers where never registered with Sennheiser - so seems I have the 2 year warrenty.....


 
 wish I could get lucky and find deals like that


----------



## vc1187

sheldaze said:


> I'll second the amps statement, without the silly.
> 
> The first time I heard HD800 on my own equipment was on JDS Labs The Element. I have had a vastly different experience of late. I was glad I was able to surprise many a first time listener this past weekend at a headphone meet by having them listen on DNA Sonett.


 
 I'm not surprised, as the house sound of Donald's amps cause the HD800 to really sing with emotion and engagement.


----------



## Solarium

davida said:


> Another reason I don't use the HD-800 or T-1 for gaming is that to me the STX does not drive either of them properly, they can be overly bright, sometimes harsh sounding and also thin sounding, to me a least.  But on my BH Crack both the HD-800 and T-1 sound great, smooth and mellow with good clarity and a sound that I enjoy.  I don't want to keep moving the BH Crack from one computer to another so the HD-700 fits that roll being easier to drive and provides me that nice surround effect for gaming and movie watching from either the STX or HT receiver.
> 
> If the T-1 works for you that great, and if you say your taste has changed to prefer brighter sounds that is possible since we are getting older and they say that the ability to hear high frequency starts to diminish with age, I know mine has.


 

 I always wondered about that, whether when we age we lose the upper frequency, does that make us more sensitive to treble or less. I see so many variation of treble sensitivity on the forums, which makes me wonder whether that is due to age.


----------



## DavidA

solarium said:


> I always wondered about that, whether when we age we lose the upper frequency, does that make us more sensitive to treble or less. I see so many variation of treble sensitivity on the forums, which makes me wonder whether that is due to age.


 
 My doctor says most people lose the ability to hear high frequencies as they age so I interpret that as we become less sensitive to treble.  Doc also said that the amount of lost is usually not liner across the entire audio frequency, usually above 14K goes at a faster rate than mids and lows.  This is also a reason that I've stopped looking for "upgrades" since I'm getting older and my hearing is getting worse, what's the point of getting better if you can't hear it?


----------



## Solarium

taowolf51 said:


> Laid back? I dunno, the HD800's are many things, but laid back isn't really one of them, IMO.
> I agree with him, the HD800's are excellent for electronic. They're fast, clean, aggressive, and detailed, which is perfect for the faster and more electronic electronic music. The electronic that heavily uses recorded sounds and acoustic instruments performs extremely well with the HD800's as well because it moves even further into the HD800's strengths.


 

 HD800, when I compared it to the HD700 and especially the T1, is laid back and definitely less aggressive. I enjoy it with Chillstep/ambient EDM because of this, but for more aggressive EDM like dance/dubstep/dnb I definitely enjoy it more on my T1. In fact, I was actually kind of disappointed moving from the T1 to the HD800 and listening to my EDM collection at first, but I eventually changed my taste to allow the HD800 perform at its strength.
  
 What do you pair your HD800 with? Perhaps the m9XX makes it more "laid back."


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I hear this with the HE6 as well—the HD800 has a much more sweeping sound. More neutral, but nowhere near as high-octane.


----------



## JaZZ

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I hear this with the HE6 as well—the HD800 has a much more sweeping sound. More neutral, but nowhere near as *high-octane*.


 
  
 So more knocking?


----------



## jibzilla

bosiemoncrieff said:


> try it with the WA5


 
  
 Well that is another issue with the He-6. There are not allot of headphone amps out there that will drive them let alone synergize. No issues like that with the Lcd-X


----------



## PleasantSounds

> Originally Posted by *DavidA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My doctor says most people lose the ability to hear high frequencies as they age so I interpret that as we become less sensitive to treble.  Doc also said that the amount of lost is usually not liner across the entire audio frequency, usually above 14K goes at a faster rate than mids and lows.  This is also a reason that I've stopped looking for "upgrades" since I'm getting older and my hearing is getting worse, what's the point of getting better if you can't hear it?


 
  
 Better audio is not only about high frequencies: you could still enjoy better soundstage, separation, dynamics.
 Frequency response can be quite successfully adjusted through EQ, but those other characteristics can't.


----------



## jibzilla

vc1187 said:


> I'm not surprised, as the house sound of Donald's amps cause the HD800 to really sing with emotion and engagement.


 
  
 Yes the amps matter more than any other headphone out there and source probably only second to the sr-009 although I have yet to try out the mjolnir kgsshv Carbon and circlotron carbon. I had to sink $3500 into a used Metrum Pavane and $4750, combo deal with the hd800, into a Apex Teton before I really felt like I maxed out the hd800. The bass lightness and treble spike is not new news and well documented, not always the mastering at fault imo. The hd800 is just not voiced for electronic.


----------



## Taowolf51

jibzilla said:


> Yeah I agree that the hd800 are anything but laidback and that the detailed clean sound somewhat lends itself to electronic. However they are just not voiced for electronic. I would actually go as far to say they are the polar opposite what you want for electronic. Bass light with a treble spike. Yes you can EQ the hd800 but I think your much better off getting a headphone that is voiced for electronic that has a slightly rolled off treble and full sounding bass.
> 
> The original Audeze ambassadors of yore was the who's who of dnb. If you don't want to take my word maybe Goldie, Bailey and Reid Speed? The lcd-X is to die for with electronic. The hd800...well that is rock in my books...at least to me that is what the hd800's are voiced for.


 
  
 I dunno, I'm of the camp that believes it's better to go with a headphone where the technicalities match your preferences the most (as long as the frequency response isn't insanely different from what you like). Frequency response is easy to change, technicalities are not. My HD800's are EQ'd to flat bass down to 10Hz, a slight rising response to 1k (as recommended by Bob Katz for better midrange and vocal presence), a reduction in the dip from 2-5k, a reduction in the 6k spike (both through EQ and through mods to handle ringing and issues in the time domain), and a smooth upper treble response. It performs excellently with electronic, and I'd argue in many aspects is better than Audeze's offerings for many types of electronic music. I've spent time with the LCD-3, X, XC, and owned the 2's for some time (they were my primary headphones before I picked up the HD800's). I ended up being more satisfied with the HD800's with electronic music than any other headphone I have owned.
  
 DnB is one of the genres where I would say the Audeze headphones have an advantage, because they mostly focus on bass and lower midrange, AKA the strengths of Audeze's headphones. However, despite the fact that my HD800's likely look a lot like LCD headphones in the bass and lower midrange, the technicalities are what set them apart and give Audeze the advantage. Audeze's headphones have a great amount of weight while still being decently fast, and parts of their midrange has some of the best euphonics I've ever heard. However, I've noticed that with the LCD-2's, electronic music was either amazing or disappointing. They have weight in the bass, but lack in energy, detail, and instrument separation when compared to the HD800's. They're also more selective with their texture. The bass has good texture (amazing weight, but it doesn't do as well with faster and more complex bass sections, it smooths them a bit), the range of brass instruments has amazing texture (the best I've heard), but the rest of it is very smooth (which is great for some music, but not so great with electronic music). I noticed I would listen to my LCD-2's at a much louder volume than normal to try to eak out some texture and excitement in a lot of electronic music. This actually led to a temporary reduction of my hearing range I was doing it so much (down to about 17-18k from 19.5k, thankfully it went back up to 19k after a bit). The HD800, in comparison, has very very good texture throughout the frequency range. The bass punches, the midrange bites, and the treble cuts (but in a good way). I'd put the HD800 at the top of the list for texture, which I personally consider very important for electronic. It even provides surprising amounts of texture at low volumes, so I never really feel the need to crank them.
  
 Here's some examples of some songs I consider to be very good with Audeze's and with the HD800's.
  
 Son Lux, I think is designed for Audeze's headphones. They sound absolutely incredible with a pair of LCD's. The use of deeper brass instruments seemed to hit my LCD-2's at the sweet spot of texture and their male vocals and heavy use of long decay fits into the euphonic midrange Audeze is so famous for perfectly.
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRyMoyRPrr8
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wnIs71n_kE
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MKjNVw35Ss
  
 I honestly wish I had a pair of Audezes still so I could hear the Undone single with them.
  
 Now, the HD800's do very well with Son Lux, but not as well as Audezes.
  
 For music that isn't characteristically dark like dnb and Son Lux, as well as music that excels in detail, complex layering, and texture the HD800's excel.
 For example, The Flashbulb's The Bridgeport Run is my instrument separation and fast detail test song, and the HD800's are some of the best performers I've ever heard with this song.
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udsaOEdBvL4&list=PLzHAWfM3G0U1ZTMqQ7TYlMcgqSjgUsjzU
  
 The Flashbulb's Winter Map is also a good example of where the HD800 excels, smaller fast details. The "crunchy" type sounds used throughout the song are quiet, yet have a ton of detail and texture in them. It gets even more difficult when these songs are paired with heavy bass thumps midway into the song. Bleed and separation need to be extremely good for those thick bass notes to not impact the crunchy sounds and the HD800 performs incredibly well in this area. A big part of this is because of how excellent its transients are (especially at low volumes where many other headphones fall apart).
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDYDTpYKL7g
  
 Yosi Horikawa's work is always very complex and textured, and use the entire frequency range. The HD800's are the easy winner with his work.
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CuJqtNdcJU
  
 Of course, remember that these are youtube songs, so don't expect these to have the best quality. They're just for reference.
  
 But also in general, I've found the HD800's to be more favorable with a wider range of electronic music because they're less picky in that series of genres. Their aggressive and fast nature lends them to make things sound more exciting, while the house Audeze sound lends itself to smoother sound, which can diminish a lot of (but far from all) electronic music.
  
 And in the end, I wrote a damn wall of text. Apologies for making it so long, and if you got to the end, congratulations. 
  


solarium said:


> I always wondered about that, whether when we age we lose the upper frequency, does that make us more sensitive to treble or less. I see so many variation of treble sensitivity on the forums, which makes me wonder whether that is due to age.


 
  
 We definitely do, we lose upper frequencies as we age and as we accumulate minor hearing damage. However, it varies by person. For example, 17k tones are used to drive off kids under the age of 18, since most people above that age cannot hear them. However, there are some people in their thirties and even later that can still hear them.
  
  


solarium said:


> HD800, when I compared it to the HD700 and especially the T1, is laid back and definitely less aggressive. I enjoy it with Chillstep/ambient EDM because of this, but for more aggressive EDM like dance/dubstep/dnb I definitely enjoy it more on my T1. In fact, I was actually kind of disappointed moving from the T1 to the HD800 and listening to my EDM collection at first, but I eventually changed my taste to allow the HD800 perform at its strength.
> 
> What do you pair your HD800 with? Perhaps the m9XX makes it more "laid back."


 
  
 I guess it is dependent on your perspective. The HD700's and the T1's are often considered some of the brightest higher-end headphones, and compared to them I can understand considering the HD800's laid back (frequency response-wise, not transient-wise).
  
 I pair my HD800's with a Valhalla 2, but I also use a parametric EQ to make the bass more linear and the overall frequency response smoother (raise dips and reduce peaks). My setup is likely more "laid back" than yours because my bass doesn't roll off. I think the perspective is the biggest difference here. You're used to some fairly intense treble, so even though the HD800 is known for being decently bright, in comparison to what you're used to it is not.
 But, I think it's important to define "laid back". Usually I think of it as a combination of a darker signature along with a slower rising transient and decay. In comparison to the T1 and HD700's, the HD800 does fit the bill in the first area, but not the second area. The HD800's rising transient and decay is very very quick, especially the decay.


----------



## jibzilla

I have never heard the bass "punch" out of an hd800 that was not modified or heavily eq'd. At least to me the hd800 is a rock headphone, Audeze techno, 007mk1 and he500 (used to own) all arounder. If it is what you like it is what you like though. I just find this night and day as far as what music genre each headphone was intended for, save the all arounders.


----------



## Zombie_X

jibzilla said:


> I have never heard the bass "punch" out of an hd800 that was not modified or heavily eq'd. At least to me the hd800 is a rock headphone, Audeze techno, 007mk1 and he500 (used to own) all arounder. If it is what you like it is what you like though. I just find this night and day as far as what music genre each headphone was intended for, save the all arounders.


 
  
 My HD800 has almost Fidelio X1 levels off bass, well maybe not quite as much, but a lot more than the T1. Certainly more than my K7XX. I was quite surprised as I had heard a set of the HD800 in the past and it did not have this much bass. Not basshead levels, but a lot more than you'd expect.
  
 I am waiting on my frequency graph from Sennheiser, anyone know how long it takes to get one from them?


----------



## jynxed

Mine took 8 days.


----------



## vc1187

zombie_x said:


> My HD800 has almost Fidelio X1 levels off bass, well maybe not quite as much, but a lot more than the T1. Certainly more than my K7XX. I was quite surprised as I had heard a set of the HD800 in the past and it did not have this much bass. Not basshead levels, but a lot more than you'd expect.
> 
> I am waiting on my frequency graph from Sennheiser, anyone know how long it takes to get one from them?


 

 I feel the same way about my pair of HD800 with serial num. 15xxx
  
 While the punch is not at the same level as the HE-6, it fits well with the rest of the signature of the headphones.  I've actually swapped in tubes that will improve the slam of the HD800 at the expense of its other technicalities.  The HD800's main strength is and always will be its ability to produce an impressive soundstage with very precise imaging.


----------



## jibzilla

vc1187 said:


> I feel the same way about my pair of HD800 with serial num. 15xxx
> 
> While the punch is not at the same level as the HE-6, it fits well with the rest of the signature of the headphones.  I've actually swapped in tubes that will improve the slam of the HD800 at the expense of its other technicalities.  The HD800's main strength is and always will be its ability to produce an impressive soundstage with very precise imaging.


 
  
 I do not think the question is does the hd800 have bass. It does have a good, even great bass to it. It is just much more enveloping than punchy and a punchy bass is really what you want for electronic. I have also swapped in a ken rad 6sn7 and gotten punchy bass but as you say it is at the expense of the hd800's other technicalities. At least to me you get all those technicalities and then some with the punchy bass that I find critical for electronic with the Lcd-X. I also think the Lcd-X does a better job with synths, something else I find critical for electronic.
  
 I would not say the hd800 is bad for electronic but out of the 3 headphones I own ... I would say it is a good half way there but I would put it in 3rd place.


----------



## JaZZ

In my opinion the HD 800 (in my case modified – which may be beneficial anyway) is the ideal headphone for electronica when equalized (or even more extremely).


----------



## Zombie_X

Enjoy!


----------



## Arniesb

zombie_x said:


> Enjoy!


Nice review! Pretty much agree about being picky part, most who says this just dont like Bright headphones and are looking for another smooth headphones... I heard many stories about people's being happy with even O2 and ODAC and others arent happy with high end dacs and amps. Gonna wait for HD700 vs HD800 review.


----------



## sysfail

zombie_x said:


> My HD800 has almost Fidelio X1 levels off bass, well maybe not quite as much, but a lot more than the T1. Certainly more than my K7XX. I was quite surprised as I had heard a set of the HD800 in the past and it did not have this much bass. Not basshead levels, but a lot more than you'd expect.
> 
> I am waiting on my frequency graph from Sennheiser, anyone know how long it takes to get one from them?


 
  
 I got it within a few days. They just email you back.


----------



## sysfail

jazz said:


> In my opinion the HD 800 (in my case modified – which may be beneficial anyway) is the ideal headphone for electronica when equalized (or even more extremely).


 
  
 I agree. They have plenty of bass that extends very well. Just a matter of how prominent you want it to be. A good EQ can really tailor these things to fit any genre you'd like.


----------



## Mortalcoil

zombie_x said:


> Enjoy!


 
  
  
 Great effort Thanks !


----------



## Zombie_X

sysfail said:


> I got it within a few days. They just email you back.


 
  
 I registered over two weeks ago! Never saw anything from them.


----------



## sysfail

zombie_x said:


> I registered over two weeks ago! Never saw anything from them.


 
  
 Wow. Maybe send them an email again?


----------



## Zombie_X

sysfail said:


> Wow. Maybe send them an email again?


 
  
 Did that and tried sending my registration through again. Now we'll wait and see.


----------



## sysfail

zombie_x said:


> Did that and tried sending my registration through again. Now we'll wait and see.


 
  
 Good luck! The title of the email should be something along the lines of "HD 800 - Expert Quality Assurance‏". At least that's what mine was, got it in about 3 days after registering.


----------



## thecrow

sysfail said:


> I agree. They have plenty of bass that extends very well. Just a matter of how prominent you want it to be. A good EQ can really tailor these things to fit any genre you'd like.


Or for my wa2 with them a change in tubes, particularly power tubes.


----------



## thecrow

Anyone here with the hd800's and wa2 that also have the hd600?

I like my set up with the hd800's but I've always been a fan of the easy listening style if the hd600. Is it worth considering the hd600s or once you have them both you don't bother going from your hd800 to hd600?


----------



## DavidA

thecrow said:


> Anyone here with the hd800's and wa2 that also have the hd600?
> 
> I like my set up with the hd800's but I've always been a fan of the easy listening style if the hd600. Is it worth considering the hd600s or once you have them both you don't bother going from your hd800 to hd600?


 
 Don't have WA2 but I like the HD-600 and HD-650 for the different sound signatures, as you say the easy listening style.  I actually use my HD-650 and HD-700 more than my HD-800, I like to relax and not think when listening so HD-600/650 lets me do this while the HD-800 gets me to involved with listening to relax.


----------



## Moonhead

I only have a Superlux but Thats enough for me, I also tend to use my HD650 more than my HD800.
I just plug direct to my iPhone og Mac Pro, so Hasle free an easy listening, plus i dont feel i have to be as carefull with HD650.
To me HD650 are the Best value in High-end cans.


----------



## leng jai

I agree that to get the most out of the HD800s you kind of need to concentrate so you can hear the details and notice its imaging capabilities. I find that if I just put them on and just let the music play while concentrating on something else they don't seem _that_ amazing.


----------



## dharma

Tyll Hertsens latest review in Innerfidelity, about Sennheiser HD800 versus HD800 'French mod' versus HD800S:
  
_*Sennheiser HD 800 S: Tweaked and Delightful...and a French DIY Response*_
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sennheiser-hd-800-s-tweaked-and-delightfuland-french-diy-response


----------



## paulchiu

dharma said:


> Tyll Hertsens latest review in Innerfidelity, about Sennheiser HD800 versus HD800 'French mod' versus HD800S:
> 
> _*Sennheiser HD 800 S: Tweaked and Delightful...and a French DIY Response*_
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sennheiser-hd-800-s-tweaked-and-delightfuland-french-diy-response


 
  
 and the video:
  
 https://youtu.be/T0QrsBzmVVw
  
 Still Tyll's "World Best Headphone"


----------



## dharma

paulchiu said:


> and the video:
> 
> https://youtu.be/T0QrsBzmVVw
> 
> Still Tyll's "World Best Headphone"


 

 Basically yes, if to understand, that HD800S is just little 'modded' HD800...


----------



## paulchiu

dharma said:


> Basically yes, if to understand, that HD800S is just little 'modded' HD800...


 
  
 with a paint job!


----------



## 62ohm

I find it troubling that the new HD800 S measures worse in some part than the HD800 it succeeds. There's more bass roll-off in the 30Hz square wave and plenty more bass distortion all the way from 20 Hz to 100 Hz. Looks like the treble distortion and the 300 Hz square wave is much more controlled though - definitely keen to try out the 'S' version, something I'm still yet to get the chance for.
  
 Measurement-wise though, it seems to me that the HD800 S is not an ultimate upgrade to the HD800 - but more of a side-grade.


----------



## whirlwind

62ohm said:


> I find it troubling that the new HD800 S measures worse in some part than the HD800 it succeeds. There's more bass roll-off in the 30Hz square wave and plenty more bass distortion all the way from 20 Hz to 100 Hz. Looks like the treble distortion and the 300 Hz square wave is much more controlled though - definitely keen to try out the 'S' version, something I'm still yet to get the chance for.
> 
> Measurement-wise though, it seems to me that the HD800 S is not an ultimate upgrade to the HD800 - but more of a side-grade.


 
 Not sure it was meant to be an upgrade....just a different flavor....mainly taking care of 6K treble peak that bothered some.


----------



## dharma

There are some, who keep both versions... for different 'occasions/circumstances'


----------



## dharma

I started to read also comments on the innerfidelity site...
 very interesting is the Tyll's first comment, to the post 'Distortion is musicality?


----------



## leng jai

From the sounds of it the "S" model does appear to be a side grade depending on your taste. I think that's the reason Sennheiser decided to thrown in the balanced cable to justify the increased price. For my tastes I probably would enjoy the tweak in treble but I find the bass perfect in the HD800 so at the end of the day it's a break even trade off for me probably. I would never get the S anyway since in Australia the price difference is double.


----------



## dharma

leng jai said:


> From the sounds of it the "S" model does appear to be a side grade depending on your taste. I think that's the reason Sennheiser decided to thrown in the balanced cable to justify the increased price. For my tastes I probably would enjoy the tweak in treble but I find the bass perfect in the HD800 so at the end of the day it's a break even trade off for me probably. I would never get the S anyway since in Australia the price difference is double.


 
  
 On the HD800S threads (there are two), some claim, that prefers HD800 with SE connection and HD800S with balanced connection...


----------



## Dadracer

dharma said:


> leng jai said:
> 
> 
> > From the sounds of it the "S" model does appear to be a side grade depending on your taste. I think that's the reason Sennheiser decided to thrown in the balanced cable to justify the increased price. For my tastes I probably would enjoy the tweak in treble but I find the bass perfect in the HD800 so at the end of the day it's a break even trade off for me probably. I would never get the S anyway since in Australia the price difference is double.
> ...


 
 Yes I do, how may I be of assistance?


----------



## dharma

I would prefer to think, that balanced cable is not just expensive 'marketing' thing in HD800S box...


----------



## Dadracer

dharma said:


> I would prefer to think, that balanced cable is not just expensive 'marketing' thing in HD800S box...


 
 Me too and I think it depends on your headphone amp. I compared SE cables versus balanced cables in my HD800 some time back. The cables were both the Sennheiser standard HD800 cables. I also did my best to allow for the volume difference when I switched between so the only difference should be SE versus balanced mode in terms of sound quality. After a number of hours it became clear that for me at least the sound in balanced mode was preferable to SE. I have not tried other balanced cables although I know many who swear by a number of brands but some of these are a significant percentage of the cost of the headphones and that just feels wrong. 
  
 I wonder if the HD800S has been voiced to better take account of balanced operation as the HD800 was launched at a time when SE operation was all that was on offer for headphones except electrostats. Anyhow maybe it is the additional "sparkle" of the 800s but in SE mode they sound very close to the 800S to my ears and so I prefer them by a tiny margin. In balanced mode the 800S sounds better by a small margin especially at the top and bottom ends of the spectrum.


----------



## dharma

dadracer said:


> Me too and I think it depends on your headphone amp. I compared SE cables versus balanced cables in my HD800 some time back. The cables were both the Sennheiser standard HD800 cables. I also did my best to allow for the volume difference when I switched between so the only difference should be SE versus balanced mode in terms of sound quality. After a number of hours it became clear that for me at least the sound in balanced mode was preferable to SE. I have not tried other balanced cables although I know many who swear by a number of brands but some of these are a significant percentage of the cost of the headphones and that just feels wrong.
> 
> I wonder if the HD800S has been voiced to better take account of balanced operation as the HD800 was launched at a time when SE operation was all that was on offer for headphones except electrostats. Anyhow maybe it is the additional "sparkle" of the 800s but in SE mode they sound very close to the 800S to my ears and so I prefer them by a tiny margin. In balanced mode the 800S sounds better by a small margin especially at the top and bottom ends of the spectrum.


 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Fido2

Im running my HD800 off an Emotiva mini-x a100 50wpc speaker amp. Running a female xlr with wires directly to the speaker taps. Sounds DAMN good. Bass, smooth treble, deep spacious sound, huge soundstage, just very meaty and natural sound. This amp is only $219 and has its own volume control. Im lovin it!!


----------



## Zombie_X

dadracer said:


> Me too and I think it depends on your headphone amp. I compared SE cables versus balanced cables in my HD800 some time back. The cables were both the Sennheiser standard HD800 cables. I also did my best to allow for the volume difference when I switched between so the only difference should be SE versus balanced mode in terms of sound quality. After a number of hours it became clear that for me at least the sound in balanced mode was preferable to SE. I have not tried other balanced cables although I know many who swear by a number of brands but some of these are a significant percentage of the cost of the headphones and that just feels wrong.
> 
> I wonder if the HD800S has been voiced to better take account of balanced operation as the HD800 was launched at a time when SE operation was all that was on offer for headphones except electrostats. Anyhow maybe it is the additional "sparkle" of the 800s but in SE mode they sound very close to the 800S to my ears and so I prefer them by a tiny margin. In balanced mode the 800S sounds better by a small margin especially at the top and bottom ends of the spectrum.


 
  
 But running balanced doesn't change the sound. Sure you get double the power to the driver, but nothing else really changes much.
  
 It's deffinitely a gimmick to me. There's no reason a balanced amp would change a headphone so profoundly. I believe you get the same results from a SE amp that has similar power output.


----------



## cuiter23

zombie_x said:


> But running balanced doesn't change the sound. Sure you get double the power to the driver, but nothing else really changes much.




fwiw, balanced operation made a huge difference for me out of the HDVD800.


----------



## Zombie_X

cuiter23 said:


> fwiw, balanced operation made a huge difference for me out of the HDVD800.


 
  
 I guess mileage may vary, but with my ROC there was a negligible improvement. It was no better than driving the headphone out of my V200 or Phonitor Mini.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

zombie_x said:


> But running balanced doesn't change the sound. Sure you get double the power to the driver, but nothing else really changes much.
> 
> It's deffinitely a gimmick to me. There's no reason a balanced amp would change a headphone so profoundly. I believe you get the same results from a SE amp that has similar power output.




I very much suspect that 5W out of balanced is indeed not better than 5W out of SE amp. It's the power that does the magic in the end.

However, not having heard/tested it myself, I can see having 5W on tap rendering better results than having just 3W (or whatever the actual numbers are). This has nothing to do with balanced vs SE, but everything with power and drive, grip on the HP driver. So my logical mind therefore embraces the possibility that adding a more powerful amp (whether balanced or SE) would actually mean performance gains...

Isn't that one of the improvements of Hugo TT compared with the portable Hugo in the first place?



cuiter23 said:


> fwiw, balanced operation made a huge difference for me out of the HDVD800.




There balanced means lots more power (Watt) than SE... hence the better drive.


----------



## Dadracer

zombie_x said:


> dadracer said:
> 
> 
> > Me too and I think it depends on your headphone amp. I compared SE cables versus balanced cables in my HD800 some time back. The cables were both the Sennheiser standard HD800 cables. I also did my best to allow for the volume difference when I switched between so the only difference should be SE versus balanced mode in terms of sound quality. After a number of hours it became clear that for me at least the sound in balanced mode was preferable to SE. I have not tried other balanced cables although I know many who swear by a number of brands but some of these are a significant percentage of the cost of the headphones and that just feels wrong.
> ...


 
 I explained the circumstances in which I made the comparison and at no time did I give the impression that it was a profound difference. Now if you have tried the same comparison and not heard any difference then you are most welcome to believe it to be a gimmick. I used exactly the same amp in SE and balanced with essentially the same cables and the same headphones. I corrected for volume to the best of my ability. So what else would you conclude if you heard a difference in favour of balanced mode? 
  
 I believe that balanced sound in like having more of the same, in other words whatever sound palette/spectrum/picture your headphones have then balanced will highlight that a bit more.So its not changing the sound and its not profound, but its there and it is an improvement to my ears and in my opinion. 
  
 You don't have to believe any of this of course and that's your right.


----------



## dharma

if You read from this post to the end, you get nicely understandable overview about some 'controversy'
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/5490#post_12401642


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

dharma said:


> if You read from this post to the end, you get nicely understandable overview about some 'controversy'
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/5490#post_12401642




I beg to differ: iFi only partially states some facts/possibilities. They don't even mention the law of diminishing returns. That's what I said about this topic some weeks ago:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/795365/sennheiser-hd800-s-impressions-thread-read-first-post-for-summary/120#post_12306902


----------



## Yviena

Don't really know why but after taking off the ear pads and dry cleaning them with a microfiber cloth, the sound has changed i get a bit more width/depth but kinda lost around 3-6db volume.
 Though the comfort of the headphones did greatly improve after this, it's not pressing against my jaw as hard as before. Think im gonna go and buy new pads to check if the change is still there.


----------



## dharma

coldassault said:


> I beg to differ: iFi only partially states some facts/possibilities. They don't even mention the law of diminishing returns. That's what I said about this topic some weeks ago:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/795365/sennheiser-hd800-s-impressions-thread-read-first-post-for-summary/120#post_12306902


 
  
 If someone can give better links about 'balanced-or-not' theme, with 'all aspects covered', then everybody will be happy...
 Thanks in advance!!!!!


----------



## zilch0md

> Originally Posted by *dharma* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I really like the points that CoLdAsSauLt makes at the link he provided.
  
 Here's my take (which is probably the thread to which we should take this discussion):  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/260346/ignorance-cure-needed-balanced-vs-unbalanced#post_11558111


----------



## jibzilla

dharma said:


> If someone can give better links about 'balanced-or-not' theme, with 'all aspects covered', then everybody will be happy...
> Thanks in advance!!!!!


 
  
 I think the Apex lineup of amplifiers more than covers all aspects and forget the $10k pinnacle, to which there is no equal other than a crayon amp. Just the Peak/Volcano will best most balanced amps out there. If your amp has balanced and SE options yes the balanced will more likely sound more preferable but as far as balanced overall is better than SE is just silly imo.


----------



## koiloco

jibzilla said:


> I think the Apex lineup of amplifiers more than covers all aspects and forget the $10k pinnacle, to which there is no equal other than a crayon amp. Just the Peak/Volcano will best most balanced amps out there. If your amp has balanced and SE options yes the balanced will more likely sound more preferable but as far as balanced overall is better than SE is just silly imo.


 
 +1


----------



## Shetzu

I have just  got the delivery of my new Hd-800. It really is the best looking HP and I am sure going to enjoy them. My next step is to look around for a good compatible Amplifier in range of $500-1000
 As I have exhausted my budget for the time being I am going to use my iFi iCan Micro amp to drive the HD.


----------



## whirlwind

^ Congrats, I am sure you will enjoy them ^


----------



## leng jai

I remember thinking that the HD800 looked terrible when it first came out. It looks much better in person compared to photos.


----------



## Shetzu

leng jai said:


> I remember thinking that the HD800 looked terrible when it first came out. It looks much better in person compared to photos.


 
 yeah I agree. They look fantastic in person.


----------



## Moonhead

I can recommend Superlux HA3D, it has lots of volts and runs on only two batteries


----------



## jynxed

shetzu said:


> yeah I agree. They look fantastic in person.




Congratulations! I have had mine for a couple of weeks now and love them. I have been rediscovering my music collection coming from a pair of fidelio x2. My husband has used my x2's alot however, he can not listen to the hd800's because they have too much detail.

I quite like the design of them too, but I can see how alien they must have looked when 1st released as the design is very different to anything other than the 700's. Industrial design apart though...the comfort is just amazing, the most comfortable headphone I have tryed, almost can forget you are wearing them.


----------



## Shetzu

jynxed said:


> Congratulations! I have had mine for a couple of weeks now and love them. I have been rediscovering my music collection coming from a pair of fidelio x2. My husband has used my x2's alot however, he can not listen to the hd800's because they have too much detail.
> 
> I quite like the design of them too, but I can see how alien they must have looked when 1st released as the design is very different to anything other than the 700's. Industrial design apart though...the comfort is just amazing, the most comfortable headphone I have tryed, almost can forget you are wearing them.


 
 Hey. Thanks and reciprocate the wishes belated of course. Yes the X2 has a very good sound I would call them my balanced HP. I enjoy them a lot. For me when I saw the 800 i always thought to myself I am surely going to get my hands on them and finally I belled the cat. Yes indeed they are the most comfortable HP. So tell me which amp you are using with 800. I am gathering all information I can get and later decide for a good compatible amp for them. Cheers.


----------



## jynxed

My intention was similar to yours, just take time and look around for something that worked well, buying something like a mojo or iFi to power them in the mean time, whilst researched / demo'ed. However, I was offered a deal I couldnt turn down HD800, HDVD800,ballanced cable and all connectors £1200 all in from a local shop. It was used but only a month or 2 old, so pristine, the guy who owned them was his friend, who had sadly passed away. So was selling them cheap for the familly who just wanted them to go to a good home. I was even able to register them with Sennheiser. So I have a pretty amazing souvinear to take home to the UK from my 4 month stay in Sweden!
  
 The amp compliments the HD800's really well, I proberbly would have saved up and bought something different if the offer was not so stupidly good as the dac is kind of average. His top recomendations if I wanted something new was Hugo and Woo products, he even recomended the Mojo as a cheaper alternative if I wanted to come in under the £1200 mark. At that price though I feel I would have been daft to turn the package down.


----------



## dharma

jibzilla said:


> I think the Apex lineup of amplifiers more than covers all aspects and forget the $10k pinnacle, to which there is no equal other than a crayon amp. Just the Peak/Volcano will best most balanced amps out there. If your amp has balanced and SE options yes the balanced will more likely sound more preferable but as far as balanced overall is better than SE is just silly imo.


 
  
 Thank You all! My English is little 'broken', so I needed to 'crossreference' my interests about 'balanced/non-balanced' debates from different threads...
 also got new viewpoints (in upper-mentioned iFi thread) related to your suggested 'post links'...
 Thanks!


----------



## Shetzu

jynxed said:


> My intention was similar to yours, just take time and look around for something that worked well, buying something like a mojo or iFi to power them in the mean time, whilst researched / demo'ed. However, I was offered a deal I couldnt turn down HD800, HDVD800,ballanced cable and all connectors £1200 all in from a local shop. It was used but only a month or 2 old, so pristine, the guy who owned them was his friend, who had sadly passed away. So was selling them cheap for the familly who just wanted them to go to a good home. I was even able to register them with Sennheiser. So I have a pretty amazing souvinear to take home to the UK from my 4 month stay in Sweden!
> 
> The amp compliments the HD800's really well, I proberbly would have saved up and bought something different if the offer was not so stupidly good as the dac is kind of average. His top recomendations if I wanted something new was Hugo and Woo products, he even recomended the Mojo as a cheaper alternative if I wanted to come in under the £1200 mark. At that price though I feel I would have been daft to turn the package down.


 
 I ma go for the tube amp. All say tube makes the Hd 800 sound fantastic. Something happened. It came as a boon in disguise. A friend of mine invited me to test his gear. That time i had chance to demo his HD 800 before I bought it. I got chance to test it with is Auralic Stack (taurus+Vega) & woo Audio Wa22 along with Chord Hugo. I got zapped and freaked out at how good the HD sounded. There itself I made my mind to buy the Hd 800 first which I did of course. Of course I am not in that high end league but I would go for a different Tube model soon.
 Yes currently I have my Ifi Ican Micro to use it with the HD.


----------



## vc1187

> Originally Posted by ****zu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> I ma go for the tube amp. All say tube makes the Hd 800 sound fantastic. Something happened. It came as a boon in disguise. A friend of mine invited me to test his gear. That time i had chance to demo his HD 800 before I bought it. I got chance to test it with is Auralic Stack (taurus+Vega) & woo Audio Wa22 along with Chord Hugo. I got zapped and freaked out at how good the HD sounded. There itself I made my mind to buy the Hd 800 first which I did of course. Of course I am not in that high end league but I would go for a different Tube model soon.
> Yes currently I have my Ifi Ican Micro to use it with the HD.


 
 If you're looking for a good introduction tube amp for the HD800, I'd personally be looking at the Schiit Valhalla 2.
  
 If you want to spend a little more money, I can think of no other tube amp that falls under the $1K range and synergizes amazingly with the HD800 other than the Glenn OTL (customizable to your personal configuration)  With the proper tube selection, you'll probably be looking closer to the $1K range or more though.
  
 Of course, as always, YMMV.


----------



## Taowolf51

leng jai said:


> I remember thinking that the HD800 looked terrible when it first came out. It looks much better in person compared to photos.


 
  
 The HD800 does look pretty nice in person, definitely better than many other headphones out there. In black it looks so excellent, I'd love to colorware my pair at some point. The more you use them, the more you realize the HD800's design is all clever engineering, but they were able to make it look good on top of that. 
  
 Quote:


vc1187 said:


> If you're looking for a good introduction tube amp for the HD800, I'd personally be looking at the Schiit Valhalla 2.
> 
> If you want to spend a little more money, I can think of no other tube amp that falls under the $1K range and synergizes amazingly with the HD800 other than the Glenn OTL (customizable to your personal configuration)  With the proper tube selection, you'll probably be looking closer to the $1K range or more though.
> 
> Of course, as always, YMMV.


 
  
 I can second the Valhalla 2 recommendation. Excellent amplifier at a surprisingly low price. It also provides a lot of headroom for the HD800. To put it one way, at 300-600 ohms (the HD800's impedance range), the Valhalla 2 and the Mjolnir 2 are just about even in power delivery.


----------



## dharma

iFi PRO series audio production is starting...The Pro series plans are the iDSD, iCAN, iUSB Power and others.
  
  
*iCAN PRO *Balanced Hybrid Headphone Amplifier (will be next month? available)
  
 ...instead of making their *iCAN*+_*iTUBE*_, they have chosen to *combine the two into a single unit* (mixing J-Fets, Bipolar transistors and Mosfets)….
 This is going to be iFi Audio’s “all out assault at the state-of-the-art and _drive every headphone out there_”.
  
 Key features are:

Balanced Output options on 3-Pin & 4-Pin XLR plus 6.3mm Jack on front panel.
Unbalanced outputs on 6.3mm Jack (direct) and two 3.5mm Jacks with built-in fixed iEMatch attenuation on front panel to drive IEMs etc. (same attenuation as in iDSD micro).
Balanced XLR & RCA outputs on back can carry Headphone out signal (for use as preamp or with Electrostatic Energiser) or loop through signal from inputs (for use with external pre-amp).
1 pair of XLR Inputs and three pairs of RCA Inputs.
20V maximum output, > 600mW into 600 Ohm headphones, appx 16,000mW maximum into 16 Ohm and appx. 6,000 mW continuous output into 16Ohm.
Three levels of gain selectable from Front Panel.
Balanced ALPS Volume control with remote control.
3D Holographic® for Headphones and XBass® (each adjustable in 3-Levels + Off).
Class A operation for all stages up to 240mW/600 Ohm, circuitry derived from professional tube-based studio equipment, implemented in a hybrid design mixing J-Fets, Bipolar transistors and Mosfets (as in Micro iCAN).
Full Dual-Mono design including internal power supplies, supplied with 15V/4A Ultra Low Noise PSU (Generation 2 design as also the updated PSU for Micro).
Optional Electrostatic Headphone Energiser in separate Box will be introduced, 1,700V Peak-Peak maximum output, Bias selectable for Stax HiFi/Pro, Sennheiser and others, Output Levels selectable, 3 * Stax Pro & HiFi Sockets fitted.
  
 Balanced Headphone Amplifier
  
 PowerSource:
 External DC 15V/4A
 Inputs (Back):
 1 x XLR True Balanced Stereo
  
 3 x RCA Stereo
 Output Front):
 4-Pin XLR Headphone Balanced
  
 Dual 3-Pin XLR Headphone Balanced
  
 6.3mm Headphone x2, single ended or balanced
  
 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter included
  
 3.5mm iEMatch attenuated x 2
 Output (back):
 XLR selectable Loop or HP Out
  
 RCA selectable Loop or HP Out
 Volume Control:
 Motorised ALPS 6-Way potentiometer in unique extended range series/shunt operation
  
  
 Analogue Processing:
 X-Bass, +3dB at 80Hz, 160Hz, 320Hz 
  
 3D Sound. 30/45/60 Degrees virtual Speaker angle
 Gain:
 0dB, 12dB and 24dB user-selectable
 Signal to Noise Ratio:
 >117dB(A)
*T*otal Harmonic Distortion (THD):
 <0.003%
 Frequency Response:
 0.5Hz to 500KHz(-3dB)
*O*utput Power (16R cont):
 > 6,000mW
 Output Voltage (600R):
 >20V (Balanced); > 10V (single ended)
 Size:
 220mm x 62mm X 190mm (W X H X D including feet and connectors)
  
  
*iCAN PRO thread* started _*here*_ (no impressions yet)
  
*Pro series discussion thread* *here*
  
 About iFi (interview)


----------



## jibzilla

vc1187 said:


> If you're looking for a good introduction tube amp for the HD800, I'd personally be looking at the Schiit Valhalla 2.
> 
> If you want to spend a little more money, I can think of no other tube amp that falls under the $1K range and synergizes amazingly with the HD800 other than the Glenn OTL (customizable to your personal configuration)  With the proper tube selection, you'll probably be looking closer to the $1K range or more though.
> 
> Of course, as always, YMMV.


 
  
 It is not so much tubes as ohm output. There are not allot of amps out there though that have ohm output without tubes. There is one person that I know of and that is Doug of ECP audio. Doug also does both SE and balanced but one or the other which to me is a very good idea. Just me but I like the fact that the apex amps are just SE and the schiit mojo is just balanced. I wish more amp makers would catch on to this.
  
 I like the gsx-mk2 but all the bells and whistles kind of turned me off. At least for me no need for multi gain settings and balanced and SE headphone outputs. I didn't even like the iem mode in my Teton.


----------



## whirlwind

vc1187 said:


> > Originally Posted by ****zu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> > I ma go for the tube amp. All say tube makes the Hd 800 sound fantastic. Something happened. It came as a boon in disguise. A friend of mine invited me to test his gear. That time i had chance to demo his HD 800 before I bought it. I got chance to test it with is Auralic Stack (taurus+Vega) & woo Audio Wa22 along with Chord Hugo. I got zapped and freaked out at how good the HD sounded. There itself I made my mind to buy the Hd 800 first which I did of course. Of course I am not in that high end league but I would go for a different Tube model soon.
> > Yes currently I have my Ifi Ican Micro to use it with the HD.
> 
> ...


 
 I totally agree....Glenns OTL is such a nice warm analog sound and it is so transparent to tube rolling....I listen to mine everyday.


----------



## Shetzu

vc1187 said:


> If you're looking for a good introduction tube amp for the HD800, I'd personally be looking at the Schiit Valhalla 2.
> 
> If you want to spend a little more money, I can think of no other tube amp that falls under the $1K range and synergizes amazingly with the HD800 other than the Glenn OTL (customizable to your personal configuration)  With the proper tube selection, you'll probably be looking closer to the $1K range or more though.
> 
> Of course, as always, YMMV.


 
 Yeah. I agree . I can  extend my budget a bit to check tube amps over 1000$ range.


----------



## JamieMcC

> Originally Posted by ****zu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Yeah. I agree . I can  extend my budget a bit to check tube amps over 1000$ range.


 
  
 Be sure to include the Bottlehead Mainline ($1200)  in your short list. I've been using mine for nearly a year now and it never fails to impress and make me grin each and every time I listen. Pairing it with the hd800 it makes for a killer combo.


----------



## vc1187

> Originally Posted by ****zu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Yeah. I agree . I can  extend my budget a bit to check tube amps over 1000$ range.


 
 FYI, whirlwind and I don't follow each other around or anything, we just consider the Glenn OTL such a great amp for the HD800 regardless of price bracket 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
 I think it's important to raise awareness for great amps that aren't as popular due to small production, otherwise people will seldom view them as options.
  


jamiemcc said:


> Be sure to include the Bottlehead Mainline ($1200)  in your short list. I've been using mine for nearly a year now and it never fails to impress and make me grin each and every time I listen. Pairing it with the hd800 it makes for a killer combo.


 
 Bottlehead makes excellent sounding amps, just be sure you are ready to build it yourself or pay extra to have it built.


----------



## shultzee

> Originally Posted by ****zu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Mjolnir 2 also is very good  with the HD800.


----------



## pickleweed

I've got a magni/modi schiit 2 stack, and use spotify as a source.  that setup sounds fine through my HE500, but would that be enough to utilize an hd800?  Or is the hd800 SO much more revealing and power hungry this wouldnt be a decent enough setup for it?


----------



## jibzilla

pickleweed said:


> I've got a magni/modi schiit 2 stack, and use spotify as a source.  that setup sounds fine through my HE500, but would that be enough to utilize an hd800?  Or is the hd800 SO much more revealing and power hungry this wouldnt be a decent enough setup for it?


 
  
 I don't think you should go after the hd800 until you have as much as the hd800's retail for ($1500) for an amp and source. What makes it worse is synergy (ohm output mainly) is paramount besides the $3k total. I second the bottlehead mainline suggestion. I liked a wheatfield ha-2 just a bit more but they rarely come up for sale.
  
 The source you can get away with a little more but it is close with the amp a pretty darn important as well. I would def. go used for a dac and vintage for TT. At least $500 of the $1500 should go toward a source.


----------



## Zombie_X

You could definitely get away with using the Schiit stack with the HD800, but the benefit a lot from better gear. I use them with my FiiO X1 player and they sound great, but out of my Phonitor Mini... there's a stark difference on some material. But with metal and such, the difference is not nearly as large.
  
 Something like the Asguard or Valhalla 2 would be great choices depending on what you want out of the sound.


----------



## pickleweed

zombie_x said:


> You could definitely get away with using the Schiit stack with the HD800, but the benefit a lot from better gear. I use them with my FiiO X1 player and they sound great, but out of my Phonitor Mini... there's a stark difference on some material. But with metal and such, the difference is not nearly as large.
> 
> Something like the Asguard or Valhalla 2 would be great choices depending on what you want out of the sound.




Thanks. At some point id consider upgrading the amp, just not soon. If it can scrape by for now thats fine. And i wouldve thought streaming music would be the bigger bottleneck


----------



## Taowolf51

jibzilla said:


> I don't think you should go after the hd800 until you have as much as the hd800's retail for ($1500) for an amp and source.


 
  
 I personally don't agree with this. You don't need distinctly expensive gear to make the HD800 sound good. An HD800 with cheaper source/amp is going to be better than, say, a $600 headphone with an expensive source/amp. The transducer is by far the most important part of the signal chain, and one of the best headphone transducers in the world (the HD800) will sound excellent even without extremely expensive gear to go along with it. Will it sound better with nicer gear? Sure, but the expensive gear is in no way a prerequisite.
  


pickleweed said:


> Thanks. At some point id consider upgrading the amp, just not soon. If it can scrape by for now thats fine. And i wouldve thought streaming music would be the bigger bottleneck


  

 Spotify Premium is actually pretty decent. It's 320 OGG Vorbis, which is pretty close to the top when it comes to lossy formats. I listen to a lot of spotify on my HD800's.


----------



## DavidA

pickleweed said:


> I've got a magni/modi schiit 2 stack, and use spotify as a source.  that setup sounds fine through my HE500, but would that be enough to utilize an hd800?  Or is the hd800 SO much more revealing and power hungry this wouldnt be a decent enough setup for it?


 
 The Schiit stack will work and you will get pretty good sound but you will not be getting the full potential of the HD-800.  As poster @Taowolf51above stated the headphone/transducer is the most important part of the chain so you can get the HD-800 now and work on your chain later.
  
 As for amps and DACs under $1000: Bifrost 4490 and BH Crack, WA3 or WA6.  Be aware that the HE-500 and HD-800 work best on different types of amps, what is ideal for HE-500 is not optimum for the HD-800 and vice versa.  There are amps out there that will drive both headphones well: Lyr2, Mjolnir2, Liquid Carbon, Chord Hugo, etc.


----------



## Shetzu

jamiemcc said:


> Be sure to include the Bottlehead Mainline ($1200)  in your short list. I've been using mine for nearly a year now and it never fails to impress and make me grin each and every time I listen. Pairing it with the hd800 it makes for a killer combo.


 
 I will I am still gathering all useful info I can get for best amps for my Hd and then decide later.


----------



## Shetzu

shultzee said:


> Mjolnir 2 also is very good  with the HD800.


 
 These days I only see Schiit products been spoken about Haha. Sure I will put this one too in my list.


----------



## versace

> Originally Posted by ****zu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> These days I only see Schiit products been spoken about Haha. Sure I will put this one too in my list.


 
 +1 to a Schiit Lyr 2 as well, i used it for a good while with my hd800's! moved to a WA22 and loving it too. All around this journey with the HD800's and amps has been fun


----------



## leng jai

You definitely don't need to go crazy DAC wise. I went from an ancient DACMagic to a Bifrost 4490 and the difference was fairly minimal.


----------



## Shetzu

versace said:


> +1 to a Schiit Lyr 2 as well, i used it for a good while with my hd800's! moved to a WA22 and loving it too. All around this journey with the HD800's and amps has been fun


 

 My only issue is after investing you do not get good price for the device you want to replace. So I decided to save and straight away go for the best like Wa2 or Wa6 of Woo Audio or Ray Samuel. Lets see how it goes  as I am still getting my research of amps to gather before I make my decision. Thanks for your inputs though.


----------



## versace

> Originally Posted by ****zu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My only issue is after investing you do not get good price for the device you want to replace. So I decided to save and straight away go for the best like Wa2 or Wa6 of Woo Audio or Ray Samuel. Lets see how it goes  as I am still getting my research of amps to gather before I make my decision. Thanks for your inputs though.


 
 Indeed, and it is good thinking as well!


----------



## DavidA

> Originally Posted by ****zu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My only issue is after investing you do not get good price for the device you want to replace. So I decided to save and straight away go for the best like Wa2 or Wa6 of Woo Audio or Ray Samuel. Lets see how it goes  as I am still getting my research of amps to gather before I make my decision. Thanks for your inputs though.


 
 Best I've heard HD-800 with are EC Balancing Act and Cavalli Liquid Glass, DACs used were AudioGD Master9 and Chord Hugo TT


----------



## Shetzu

davida said:


> Best I've heard HD-800 with are EC Balancing Act and Cavalli Liquid Glass, DACs used were AudioGD Master9 and Chord Hugo TT


 
 Haha. The equipment you have listed is beyond my budget. Thanks anyway.


----------



## DavidA

> Originally Posted by ****zu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Haha. The equipment you have listed is beyond my budget. Thanks anyway.


 
 They are also way way way beyond my budget but since you were asking for the "best" just thought I'd put it out there for you.
  
 FWIW, I feel that the BH Crack gives me 95% or more performance of the EC Balancing Act when I got to listen to them while I was in Japan last Nov.  I was visiting my friend for his daughters wedding and was staying at his house where he has a very large dedicated sound room set up.  He has all of the equipment I mentioned plus a lot more, its a dream room that I couldn't imagine in my wildest dreams.


----------



## Shetzu

davida said:


> They are also way way way beyond my budget but since you were asking for the "best" just thought I'd put it out there for you.
> 
> FWIW, I feel that the BH Crack gives me 95% or more performance of the EC Balancing Act when I got to listen to them while I was in Japan last Nov.  I was visiting my friend for his daughters wedding and was staying at his house where he has a very large dedicated sound room set up.  He has all of the equipment I mentioned plus a lot more, its a dream room that I couldn't imagine in my wildest dreams.


 
 Sorry Is should have been more specific about my budget. it is upto $1100-1200 My friend is buying the Liquid Gold and the Abyss. I am sure I will get to audition them. He currently is parting away with his Auralic Stack (Taurus+Vega) and his WA22. I had the privilege to hear them all . Wow.


----------



## DavidA

> Originally Posted by ****zu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Sorry Is should have been more specific about my budget. it is upto $1100-1200 My friend is buying the Liquid Gold and the Abyss. I am sure I will get to audition them. He currently is parting away with his Auralic Stack (Taurus+Vega) and his WA22. I had the privilege to hear them all . Wow.


 
 You have gotten to hear really good equipment, lucky you.  The WA2 would be within your budget which is fairly close to the WA22.  Talk to your friend if he is willing to give you a deal on the equipment he is selling, can't hurt to ask. Good Luck


----------



## Moonhead

HD800 play more that Well enough with just a 02 AMP or a Superlux, its driven Way out of proportion in here suggesting these big expensive amps to newbies is just plain silly, IMO. 

I have tested these small amps and owned Schiit Mjolnir & Questyle cma800r and prefer my Superlux.


----------



## Shetzu

davida said:


> You have gotten to hear really good equipment, lucky you.  The WA2 would be within your budget which is fairly close to the WA22.  Talk to your friend if he is willing to give you a deal on the equipment he is selling, can't hurt to ask. Good Luck


 
 I will surely ask my friend.  Lets hope it fits my budget, Thanks


----------



## Shetzu

moonhead said:


> HD800 play more that Well enough with just a 02 AMP or a Superlux, its driven Way out of proportion in here suggesting these big expensive amps to newbies is just plain silly, IMO.
> 
> I have tested these small amps and owned Schiit Mjolnir & Questyle cma800r and prefer my Superlux.


 
 I am using my iFi iCan Micro Amp with the Hd 800 and it sounds pretty good and balanced. I donot get the shrills on the  high or any harsh sounds.


----------



## Moonhead

Well Im the Odd one out as I believe HD800 dosent need these massive Amps, its just a Hugh misunderstanding, but preferring a particular Sound signature is a different story, IMO. 
Keep your sanity and keep what you have, Ifi is more than enough for HD800.. Just my opinion.

If you want to go full retard spending big money on desktop Amps you might aswell go the Stax route.


----------



## JamieMcC

davida said:


> FWIW, I feel that the BH Crack gives me 95% or more performance of the EC Balancing Act when I got to listen to them while I was in Japan last Nov.


 
  
 If you think the Crack gives you 95% of the performance of the ECBA then the Bottlehead Sex will be a eye opener the jump in performance moving from Crack to Sex is significant and its also way more versatile then the Crack.


----------



## DavidA

moonhead said:


> HD800 play more that Well enough with just a 02 AMP or a Superlux, its driven Way out of proportion in here suggesting these big expensive amps to newbies is just plain silly, IMO.
> 
> I have tested these small amps and owned Schiit Mjolnir & Questyle cma800r and prefer my Superlux.


 
 I tried the O2/ODAC, with HD-650 it sounded thin and lacked dynamics, with HE-400i it was even worse.  I didn't have the HD-800 at that time but with my prior experience with the HD-650 and HE-400i it not something I would consider nor recommend.
  
 Everyone hears different, if the O2/ODAC or Superlux work for you then that is all that matters.  FWIW I have two Stax headphones, a very old SRD-34 and a used SR-009 but I still like listening to other headphones just for the different sound signatures.
  
  


jamiemcc said:


> If you think the Crack gives you 95% of the performance of the ECBA then the Bottlehead Sex will be a eye opener the jump in performance moving from Crack to Sex is significant and its also way more versatile then the Crack.


 
 Got to hear the HD-800 on a Mainline and it was really good, better than the Crack but still not at the ECBA or Liquid Glass level.  So if you say the BH SEX is that much better than the Crack I will see if I can audition one, might be another nice project.  Is your BH SEX completely stock?  I haven't done anything to my BH Crack except change the tubes, TS-5998 and Telefunken 12AU7.


----------



## Moonhead

HD650 does not Sound that dynamic it is more of Lullaby easy listening headphone and Hifiman has artificial highs just like Beyer cans, can blame the amp for that, all I'm saying is the 02 and Superlux has more than enough volts to drive HD800 and as I stated before if you are seeking are particular sound signature that's a different story


----------



## Arniesb

Those guys like moonhead are priceless. I see many guys like that who says, ALL YOU NEED IS O2!!! No mater what headphones or no matter that it does not have absolutely no synergy with almost nothing... O2 got power and thats it. Why the hell in the world anybody want to pair HD800 with same signature amp...


----------



## DavidA

moonhead said:


> HD650 does not Sound that dynamic it is more of Lullaby easy listening headphone and Hifiman has artificial highs just like Beyer cans, can blame the amp for that, all I'm saying is the 02 and Superlux has more than enough volts to drive HD800 and as I stated before if you are seeking are particular sound signature that's a different story


 
 The HD-650 can sound dynamic if driven properly and the HE-400i does not have artificial highs like a Beyer and don't think I'm the only one who feels this way.
  
 If you are saying that the O2 can make the HD-800 play loud then yes they will make any headphone play loud but that was not the question that the poster asked that I was responding to.  Your prior post implied that the O2 would be equal to those more expensive amps:
  


moonhead said:


> HD800 play more that Well enough with just a 02 AMP or a Superlux, its driven Way out of proportion in here suggesting these big expensive amps to newbies is just plain silly, IMO.
> 
> I have tested these small amps and owned Schiit Mjolnir & Questyle cma800r and prefer my Superlux.


 
 This was the reason for my reply about the O2/ODAC.


----------



## longbowbbs

The Decware CSP3 is another attainable amp that pairs well with the HD800's


----------



## Moonhead

No I'm saying HD800 does NOT need that much voltage swing as these big exotic expense amps people keep suggesting in here. 
Every amp has its own flavor that ads to sound signature of the HD800, pick the one you like, but stating that HD800 needs these massive amps to be optimal or get the best out of them is simply wrong. 
By the way the Superlux was recommend by a pro record engineer who use it for his work.


----------



## pietcux

moonhead said:


> No I'm saying HD800 does NOT need that much voltage swing as these big exotic expense amps people keep suggesting in here.
> Every amp has its own flavor that ads to sound signature of the HD800, pick the one you like, but stating that HD800 needs these massive amps to be optimal or get the best out of them is simply wrong.
> By the way the Superlux was recommend by a pro record engineer who use it for his work.



You know, I drive my HD800 out of whatever is useful at times, that is my decision. But why do you need to blow against the wind in this thread? Save your breath and let everyone here have his own opinion.


----------



## vc1187

davida said:


> I tried the O2/ODAC, with HD-650 it sounded thin and lacked dynamics, with HE-400i it was even worse.  I didn't have the HD-800 at that time but with my prior experience with the HD-650 and HE-400i it not something I would consider nor recommend.
> 
> Everyone hears different, if the O2/ODAC or Superlux work for you then that is all that matters.  FWIW I have two Stax headphones, a very old SRD-34 and a used SR-009 but I still like listening to other headphones just for the different sound signatures.
> 
> ...


 
@DavidA, have you had a chance to hear the HD800 with the Stratus?  Depending on the sound you are looking for with the HD800, it may be as you describe, on the same level as the ECBA or LG.  The sound is addictive and just sounds so right.
  


moonhead said:


> No I'm saying HD800 does NOT need that much voltage swing as these big exotic expense amps people keep suggesting in here.
> Every amp has its own flavor that ads to sound signature of the HD800, pick the one you like, but stating that HD800 needs these massive amps to be *optimal* or get the best out of them is simply wrong.
> By the way the Superlux was recommend by a pro record engineer who use it for his work.


 
 Not 100% sure what you mean by "massive", but if you mean cost that is driven by better parts, construction, and design, then I disagree only because you said optimal.  While I agree that you don't need very expensive amps to make the HD800 sound good/enjoyable, some of the best amps I've heard are quite pricey.


----------



## DavidA

vc1187 said:


> @DavidA, have you had a chance to hear the HD800 with the Stratus?  Depending on the sound you are looking for with the HD800, it may be as you describe, on the same level as the ECBA or LG.  The sound is addictive and just sounds so right.


 
 No I haven't been able to audition the Stratus.  Most of what I've been able to sample has been during my trips to Japan where my friend who has more than enough disposable income to have many of these high end DACs, amps, speakers, and accessories lives (gave me his spare SR-009/SRM-007, unfortunately I had to send it back for repairs, should be back in a few months).  My last trip was in Nov last year when I got to sample half of what he had in addition to some of what his youngest daughter had and it was an eye opening experience.  The one headphone that the daughter had that stood out was a beautiful pink, mother of pearl, chrome and white Ultrasone?  Didn't sound that great but it was so beautiful to look at, sort of like the WA7 amp, a piece of art.  Living in Hawaii has its drawbacks, no high end stores, and not to many audio people around to share and discuss with.
  
 As for looking for a sound, I'm really happy with the BH Crack for the HD-800 at this point and even if I had the funds to get one of those $3000+ amps it would go to wine first 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  I am at a point where I feel like I've reached my end game as far as headphones go and since I have my 3 sets of speakers out of storage they get 80% of the listening time while headphones get only 20%.  I'll still look around but there is no urge to get anything (could have gotten a MHDT Pagoda for $400 a few weeks ago and passed on it, kicking myself a little) since I'm trying to plan a trip to Europe with GF and 3 of her friends.
  
 But if I ever see a LG or ECBA for under 1K I will not pass it up


----------



## vc1187

davida said:


> As for looking for a sound, I'm really happy with the BH Crack for the HD-800 at this point and even if I had the funds to get one of those $3000+ amps it would go to wine first
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I like the order of your priorities


----------



## Shetzu

moonhead said:


> Well Im the Odd one out as I believe HD800 dosent need these massive Amps, its just a Hugh misunderstanding, but preferring a particular Sound signature is a different story, IMO.
> Keep your sanity and keep what you have, Ifi is more than enough for HD800.. Just my opinion.
> 
> If you want to go full retard spending big money on desktop Amps you might aswell go the Stax route.


 
 I will take your advice and hang onto my iCan for at couple of years. I too thought so because I like the sound and it sounds fantastic. It is just that man is never satisfied and we all look for that extra edge so perhaps I have carried off like the rest to have tube amp on the long run for which I have come to realise that iFi has the iTube which can be linked to the iCan as a buffer and improve  the sound a bit more. Just my thought. 
 But music to ones ears is subjective and cannot be defined. So saying why people invest in big amps is their decision just like you have to yours.  I am  an live example and witness to most expensive amps and dacs and I can tell you that they do make a difference or else all these companies would shut down.
  
 Here are the pics of High end audio I had chance to audition.
  

  

  

  

  
 It is a hobby and some like to build their setup and enjoy music the way they like  so why pass judgements. Lets all enjoy and listen to good music. Cheers


----------



## Oregonian

> Originally Posted by ****zu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Sorry Is should have been more specific about my budget. it is upto $1100-1200 My friend is buying the Liquid Gold and the Abyss. I am sure I will get to audition them. He currently is parting away with his Auralic Stack (Taurus+Vega) and his WA22. I had the privilege to hear them all . Wow.


 

 Have you considered a vintage speaker amp?  You can get a powerhouse receiver/integrated amp for less than $500 that will make the HD800 sing and with the tone controls and/or loudness switch makes the bass incredible on these wonderful headphones.  I was considering selling my HD800 till I spent last night with them out of my Pioneer Spec system..........taking them off the market now. 
  
 I am an admitted vintage fan but can't see spending well over a grand on headphone specific amps when you can get such quality and dynamics with the added benefits of being able to hook up speakers as well.  Just my opinion, of course, but I can't imagine any headphone sounding better than this.


----------



## vc1187

That Sophia 274b is a beautiful rectifier, and I bet it sounds great in the Woo setup.


----------



## Shetzu

oregonian said:


> Have you considered a vintage speaker amp?  You can get a powerhouse receiver/integrated amp for less than $500 that will make the HD800 sing and with the tone controls and/or loudness switch makes the bass incredible on these wonderful headphones.  I was considering selling my HD800 till I spent last night with them out of my Pioneer Spec system..........taking them off the market now.
> 
> I am an admitted vintage fan but can't see spending well over a grand on headphone specific amps when you can get such quality and dynamics with the added benefits of being able to hook up speakers as well.  Just my opinion, of course, but I can't imagine any headphone sounding better than this.


 
 Yeah That is a great idea. I am open to anything of course not high cost though. How ever I am going to try my floor speaker receiver amplifier and see how things go. But I still am happy with my iFi iCan Micro amp which drives the 300 ohms HD very very well and  at 1/4 volume to 1/2 volume  it is perfect for my ears. I ha hd plans to buy a bigger setup but many of my colleagues and friends told me to hang on for a while  till I have got used to my hd 800 a bit and then build around it. So I plan to take this advice for now and not invest immediately. Thanks for your inputs though.


----------



## JamieMcC

davida said:


> Got to hear the HD-800 on a Mainline and it was really good, better than the Crack but still not at the ECBA or Liquid Glass level.  So if you say the BH SEX is that much better than the Crack I will see if I can audition one, might be another nice project.  Is your BH SEX completely stock?  I haven't done anything to my BH Crack except change the tubes, TS-5998 and Telefunken 12AU7.


 
  
 You do know the ECBA is about four times the price of a Bottlehead Mainline. When you add in some good tubes its getting close to $5k!
  
 Ok I was struggling a bit getting my head round your evaluation/comparison of the stock Crack to the ECBA. The stock Crack and hd800 really didn't float my boat when I was using them. I did own both a stock Crack and a modified one at the same time in the past and really thought there was little comparison between the two. The Stock Crack seemed slow and murky compared to the performance from the modified one.
 You might want to think about doing some upgrades to your Crack spending as little as $100 will do wonders for the HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and make a very noticeable difference.
  
 My Sex amp has a few modifications, a nice stepped attenuator with both course 6db and fine 1db adjustments along with a choked power supply and Jupiter HT beeswax/paper capacitors in the signal path. Sound staging and resolution leaves the modded Crack for dust.
  
 The Mainline is stock except for a pair of 10uf RTI Teflon and tin foil capacitors (originally made for Audio Research amps) and thoroughly out performers all the above especially when it comes to resolution and natural tone/timbre.
  
 Mainline
  

  

  
 Sex
  

  

  
 Crack (stock & modded)


----------



## vc1187

All of the pictures in the above post were beautiful, but what really stood out in beauty to me was the GEC 6AS7G.
  
 I do believe that this makes me unusual


----------



## Shetzu

Wow That looks awesome.


----------



## DavidA

@JamieMcC, I've seen your BH amps in the BH thread and they are really works of art and really push the envelope of modding.  I would love to do even a small percentage of what you have accomplished but my focus is going away from headphones.
  
 If you read my post I'm really happy where I am right now with what I have and don't plan anymore "upgrades" since I use my speakers most of the time and my priorities have gone away from headphones to things like wine, golf, travel and just spending time with my GF & her friends.  The other reason is since I'm getting older I know my hearing is or will start to deteriorate it so makes no sense to try and improve what I have if I can't notice the difference. 
  
 The comment that the BH Crack to me was 95% of the ECBA showed me that my hearing may not good enough to notice what you say should be a fairly large difference but to me that difference is not that large, our perceptions are different and its our individual measuring stick assigning a value to it.  As a example: some say the difference between 128 MP3 and WAV is huge while others say its very slight, who is correct? to me both are correct because that is how they perceive that difference.
  
 Anyway, sorry for my rant, back to the HD-800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




cheers and hope all are having a great weekend


----------



## jibzilla

taowolf51 said:


> I personally don't agree with this. You don't need distinctly expensive gear to make the HD800 sound good. An HD800 with cheaper source/amp is going to be better than, say, a $600 headphone with an expensive source/amp. The transducer is by far the most important part of the signal chain, and one of the best headphone transducers in the world (the HD800) will sound excellent even without extremely expensive gear to go along with it. Will it sound better with nicer gear? Sure, but the expensive gear is in no way a prerequisite.


 
  
 I used to have the same mind set as you. That the driver was the most important. After much trial and error I came to the conclusion that was wrong and it really depended on the driver itself as far as which way to go.
  
 There are not many headphones out there like the hd800 other than some beyers. Their driver really benefits from something with ohm output and most ohm output amps are expensive. The hd800 really scales well with this equipment though and thus an expensive amp is very much worth it. In the hd800's drivers case I would say $1k is just the starting point and $5k around where you should start thinking of an sr-009.
  
 The sr-007 is also very amplifier dependent as well. There was a very large difference going from the 727ii to the kgsshv. The sr-009 hardly a difference at all and most lucky 009 and 007 owners will tell you they can not pick a favorite with a b.h.s.e. in place. Where the 009 scales is in the source. I would have no issues with someone who put $20k, well over what the 009 costs into the source.
  
 $600? I will go $400 and take the hd600, which pretty much sounds identical to the hd800 just less refined, and a mainline over a hd800/magni. If your on a tight budget after the initial hd800 purchase just get the hd600 and a good amp and source. The hd600 is very much at home in a $1500 amp/dac setup.


----------



## JaZZ

jibzilla said:


> There are not many headphones out there like the hd800 other than some beyers. *Their driver really benefits from something with ohm output and most ohm output amps are expensive.* The hd800 really scales well with this equipment though and thus an expensive amp is very much worth it.


 
  
 You can add resistors in series with your headphone with all amps. Almost for free. There's nothing special with «ohm output» headphone amps. Some (OTL) tube amps have it by design, others add it to build up good synergy with a specific headphone (HDVD 600/800 and HD 800). It's in fact a cheap trick. And it's not ideal in the case of the HD 800 – which would benefit more from an increase _below_ its resonance frequency than _at_ its resonance frequency. The latter just compromizes transient response instead of really equalizing the frequency response.
  
 Much of the legend about the «hard to drive» HD 800 has its cause in the bright characteristic calling for a compensating amp. Hence one that's not exactly neutral. And (therefore) most likely not exactly the best when it comes to transparency and accuracy.
  
 Better than relying on questionable cheap tricks is to use an equalizer for the same purpose. Which enables you to use a more neutral and accurate amp. Maybe it isn't even too expensive. If your DAC can drive headphones directly, for instance, it's even free of charge.


----------



## Currawong

Sure, you don't *need* any fancy amp to drive the HD800s. BUT, this hobby isn't about "need", it's about enjoyment, and this is an impressions thread!


----------



## JaZZ

currawong said:


> Sure, you don't *need* any fancy amp to drive the HD800s. BUT, this hobby isn't about "need", it's about enjoyment, and this is an impressions thread!


 
  
 Of course it's about enjoyment, and that's not so much dependent on the price of the amp – according to my experience. I've heard quite some headphone amps and ended up with one that costs 20% of the most expensive one I've auditioned. Not because it's the best in every single sonic criterion, but all in all it is closest to my sonic ideal: neutral and unvarnished. It's the Corda Symphony – not in production anymore. The funny thing: I don't need it anymore.
  
 Once you've heard a wire without gain instead of an amp, you'll agree with me that amps are overrated. But first you have to free yourself from the need for component synergy. As stated above, a neutral and accurate amp most likely won't sound best with the HD 800. So how can the sonic product of the combo be ideal if your ideal is highest transparency and accuracy?
  
 So my approach is to equalize. The HD 800 can use some boost in the low bass (like most headphones, BTW) and some decrease of the 6 kHz range (roughly spoken). And all of a sudden the need for a dark and full sounding amp is gone.
  
 To be fair: with expensive amps you get higher likelyhood for higher transparency. But there may be exceptions which could save you money and in turn offer even higher accuracy, if you're lucky. I've lost the overview over the current headphone amp offers, so can't give corresponding advice. But one thing is certain: If you're lucky and own a DAC capable of driving headphones directly (I'm thinking of the Chord lineup), you can get along very cheap.
  
 This of course if your sonic ideal also boils down to highest possible transparency. The HD 800 is a headphone able to make you approach this goal according to my listening experience. And I guess many of the owners have chosen it for its high transparency and relative neutrality. So far there's only one other (ortho)dynamic headphone I prefer to it from this perspective (among the headphones I've auditioned).


----------



## Taowolf51

jazz said:


> You can add resistors in series with your headphone with all amps. Almost for free. There's nothing special with «ohm output» headphone amps. Some (OTL) tube amps have it by design, others add it to build up good synergy with a specific headphone (HDVD 600/800 and HD 800). It's in fact a cheap trick. And it's not ideal in the case of the HD 800 – which would benefit more from an increase _below_ its resonance frequency than _at_ its resonance frequency. The latter just compromizes transient response instead of really equalizing the frequency response.
> 
> Much of the legend about the «hard to drive» HD 800 has its cause in the bright characteristic calling for a compensating amp. Hence one that's not exactly neutral. And (therefore) most likely not exactly the best when it comes to transparency and accuracy.
> 
> Better than relying on questionable cheap tricks is to use an equalizer for the same purpose. Which enables you to use a more neutral and accurate amp. Maybe it isn't even too expensive. If your DAC can drive headphones directly, for instance, it's even free of charge.


 
  


jazz said:


> Of course it's about enjoyment, and that's not so much dependent on the price of the amp – according to my experience.
> 
> So my approach is to equalize. The HD 800 can use some boost in the low bass (like most headphones, BTW) and some decrease of the 6 kHz range (roughly spoken). And all of a sudden the need for a dark and full sounding amp is gone.


 
  
 Said it better than I could have myself, thank you.
  
 To add, I've heard the HD800 on a wide variety of amps ranging from an android phone all the way to the WA234 Mono (which certainly fits the "expensive" bill). Do expensive amps sound awesome with the HD800's? Of course! The 234 Mono was the best I had ever heard the HD800 sound. But, are the HD800's crippled in any way compared to the more expensive amps? Of course not. Cheaper amps can make the HD800 sound excellent, and adding well implemented equalization boosts the sound quality considerably.
  
 As far as high output impedance amps go, the Crack is 120 ohm, which is pretty damn high and isn't very expensive at all. But, I intentionally stayed away from that amp because of its high output impedance. Looking at the HD800's impedance graph, a high output impedance wouldn't change the signature for the better to my ears, and (like you said), a more linear amp with a well implemented parametric EQ will get me far closer to my ideal.
  
 It's a shame, though, I LOVE the look of the Crack (with a few tweaks) and really enjoyed building my Quickie. If I do ever have a few hundred bucks burning a hole in my pocket, I may give it a try just to get a taste of the relaxed transient response (which isn't what I would want for every day listening, but might be nice once in awhile).
  

 But I think one thing to take away from this whole conversation in general is the fact that everyone has different tastes, and we have amps that provide different flavors to different people. Jibzilla prefers higher output impedance amps and their sonic sound, while others such as yourself prefer a more neutral sound. It's why we should be more inclusive and not try to apply our tastes and preferences on others, as we may not share them. If people are happy, we should be happy.


----------



## johnjen

My own 2¢ on expensive vs less expensive amps.

Ofttimes the simplest circuit can yield incredible sonic results, if it's well designed and uses 'optimal' parts based upon the design.
The Crack is one such design as are the Garage 21, and the Schiit amps.
And I'm sure there are others as well.

But there are ALWAYS trade offs.
And we each are willing to trade one set of practical, functional, or sonic attributes for another.

But usually what bigger $$ yields are increases in stability and consistency and scaleability, to name a few.

And of course there is the whole, 'tweak it till it bleeds' aspect.
For some that is a major portion of the fun and enjoyment of the hobby.

For me I chose an ultra stable and 'non-changing' amp that is as repeatable in it's operation, and is as simple, in terms of the signal path, as can be, given its design.

It is MASSIVE overkill in terms of power, but that is not really an issue to me. 
It’s the design, functionality and implementation, that is what attracted me to it.
And it scales really well, which is another primary consideration in terms of 'qualifying' for consideration.

Technical details such as power, S/N, THD, etc are also well down on the list.
But there were some technical aspects that were significant, such as output impedance, channel tracking, circuit stability etc. as these give me a clue as to the amp's performance while normally operating, but also how it will do so in the long run. 

And of course being able to help 800's achieve new levels of acoustic performance is also right at the top of the list… :atsmile:

JJ


----------



## jibzilla

jazz said:


> You can add resistors in series with your headphone with all amps. Almost for free. There's nothing special with «ohm output» headphone amps. Some (OTL) tube amps have it by design, others add it to build up good synergy with a specific headphone (HDVD 600/800 and HD 800). It's in fact a cheap trick. And it's not ideal in the case of the HD 800 – which would benefit more from an increase _below_ its resonance frequency than _at_ its resonance frequency. The latter just compromizes transient response instead of really equalizing the frequency response.
> 
> Much of the legend about the «hard to drive» HD 800 has its cause in the bright characteristic calling for a compensating amp. Hence one that's not exactly neutral. And (therefore) most likely not exactly the best when it comes to transparency and accuracy.
> 
> Better than relying on questionable cheap tricks is to use an equalizer for the same purpose. Which enables you to use a more neutral and accurate amp. Maybe it isn't even too expensive. If your DAC can drive headphones directly, for instance, it's even free of charge.


 
  
 I'm not much for equalizing. I have always found some give and take with budget and totl. My approach is to find the best that I can within a certain budget in sound quality, build quality and comfort in that order, but all fairly close together.
  
 You have a point with the ohm output. At the same time it does not change the fact that most ohm output amps are pricey. Just me but I do not think Pete Millet and Doug Savitsky are throwing cheap tricks into their amplifiers and they offer up their builds for free as well if one wants to save money. At least to me that is allot of confidence in what they are doing.
  
 Are there some ripoff artists out there in headphone amp world. Oh yeah I'm with ya on that. But I put allot more faith Bottlehead, Apex and soon to be ECP with the hd800 than I do Hifiman (HE1k) and Jps labs (Abyss).


----------



## JamieMcC

taowolf51 said:


> Said it better than I could have myself, thank you.
> 
> To add, I've heard the HD800 on a wide variety of amps ranging from an android phone all the way to the WA234 Mono (which certainly fits the "expensive" bill). Do expensive amps sound awesome with the HD800's? Of course! The 234 Mono was the best I had ever heard the HD800 sound. But, are the HD800's crippled in any way compared to the more expensive amps? Of course not. Cheaper amps can make the HD800 sound excellent, and adding well implemented equalization boosts the sound quality considerably.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 The impedance figures given for the Crack are based on the 6080 tube which comes with the kit  but you can effectively drop the Cracks output impedance to around 70ohms by using the Tungsol 5998 its also a cool looking tube.  I used some 42ohm ATH-W1000X for a while with mine I found them a enjoyable listen with the 5998 tube but switching to the 6080 tube the sound was noticeably degraded particularly in the bass department.
  
 7802   MU 9 / transconductance 20000
 WE 421A   MU 5.9 / transconductance 18000
 5998A   MU 5.4 / transconductance 15500
 5998   MU 5.5 / transconductance 14000
 7236   MU 4.8 / transconductance 12500
 6080   MU 2.0 / transconductance 7000


----------



## JaZZ

jibzilla said:


> I'm not much for equalizing. I have always found some give and take with budget and totl. My approach is to find the best that I can within a certain budget in sound quality, build quality and comfort in that order, but all fairly close together.
> 
> You have a point with the ohm output. At the same time it does not change the fact that most ohm output amps are pricey. Just me but I do not think Pete Millet and Doug Savitsky are throwing cheap tricks into their amplifiers and they offer up their builds for free as well if one wants to save money. At least to me that is allot of confidence in what they are doing.
> 
> Are there some ripoff artists out there in headphone amp world. Oh yeah I'm with ya on that. But I put allot more faith Bottlehead, Apex and soon to be ECP with the hd800 than I do Hifiman (HE1k) and Jps labs (Abyss).


 
  
 Your ears are the judge. Actually I wasn't talking of rip-offs in the context of high output impedances and headphone amps generally, just that the way to increase the HD 800's bass is a cheap trick with a not so audiophile/perfectionist result. But it does work in its own way, that's not disputed. My main motive was to disenthrall the «ohm output» from the magical thinking around it. A high serial resistance just modulates the frequency response according to the headphone's impedance response, and that's it. In the case of the HD 800...
  


 ...it creates a 100 Hz hump in the first place. A questionable improvement even with the HD 800, and it will be even more questionable when you inted to use other headphones with corresponding amps. Particularly if you take into consideration that it also weakens the damping of the fundamental resonance. The good thing about it may be that it makes the bass a bit Grado-like.


----------



## DavidA

@JamieMcC what are the output impedance for the other tubes you listed?
  
 7802   MU 9 / transconductance 20000
 WE 421A   MU 5.9 / transconductance 18000
 5998A   MU 5.4 / transconductance 15500
 5998   MU 5.5 / transconductance 14000  ~70 ohm
 7236   MU 4.8 / transconductance 12500
 6080   MU 2.0 / transconductance 7000 ~ 120 ohm


----------



## JamieMcC

davida said:


> @JamieMcC what are the output impedance for the other tubes you listed?
> 
> 7802   MU 9 / transconductance 20000
> WE 421A   MU 5.9 / transconductance 18000
> ...


 

 It was only a rough guide rather than a exact figure, I have not checked the figures for myself but remembered seeing the list posted on the Bottlehead forum a while back. While the Crack works its best with high impedance headphones it can still be enjoyable to use with headphones with lower impedance ratings the cravat being you pair it with a suitable tube.


----------



## DavidA

jamiemcc said:


> It was only a rough guide rather than a exact figure, I have not checked the figures for myself but remembered seeing the list posted on the Bottlehead forum a while back. While the Crack works its best with high impedance headphones it can still be enjoyable to use with headphones with lower impedance ratings the cravat being you pair it with a suitable tube.


 
 Would it follow that the higher MU number will have a lower impedance based on the 5998 and 6080?  Reason is that with a 421A even Grado's sound good on the Crack so it might be that the output impedance might be lower than the 70 of the 5998, taking a WAG here
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## JamieMcC

davida said:


> Would it follow that the higher MU number will have a lower impedance based on the 5998 and 6080?  Reason is that with a 421A even Grado's sound good on the Crack so it might be that the output impedance might be lower than the 70 of the 5998, taking a WAG here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That was my interpretation


----------



## jibzilla

jazz said:


> Your ears are the judge. Actually I wasn't talking of rip-offs in the context of high output impedances and headphone amps generally, just that the way to increase the HD 800's bass is a cheap trick with a not so audiophile/perfectionist result. But it does work in its own way, that's not disputed. My main motive was to disenthrall the «ohm output» from the magical thinking around it. A high serial resistance just modulates the frequency response according to the headphone's impedance response, and that's it. In the case of the HD 800...
> 
> 
> 
> ...it creates a 100 Hz hump in the first place. A questionable improvement even with the HD 800, and it will be even more questionable when you inted to use other headphones with corresponding amps. Particularly if you take into consideration that it also weakens the damping of the fundamental resonance. The good thing about it may be that it makes the bass a bit Grado-like.


 
  
 Whatever. Like I said if not the ohm output the amps themselves seem to synergize with the hd800 and your not going to find any Mainline, Stratus or Teton owners that say otherwise. Know of an headphone ohm output amp that was not voiced with the hd800 or maybe k1000 in mind?


----------



## deuter

Slightly off topic, oh wait it is the hd800 thread . 

I have a fairly high end setup with a current mode headphone amp.

I believe that's not ideal for headphones with high impedance, firstly is That right ?
I noticed yesterday the mid bass was too muddy without definition would this be a cause of the headphones being driven by a current mode amp ?


----------



## johnjen

Current amps do better with HP's with flat impedance curves which the HD 800-700-650-600 etc don't have.
It's not a matter if the cans are high or low impedance.

Planars are your best bet.

JJ


----------



## deuter

johnjen said:


> Current amps do better with HP's with flat impedance curves which the HD 800-700-650-600 etc don't have.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Ok, not really the answer I was looking for as I do have the HD800.


----------



## Tom Khuu

Hey guys, my current setup is Val2/Bifrost Uber > HD650 and I'm thinking of upgrading to the HD800 with the same amp/dac which I'm sure will pair great with it.
 My only fear is the kind of music I'm listening to. I mostly listen to Vietnamese Yellow songs. Can you guys tell me how these sound?
 Sorry if it sounds foreign to you, it's just a very unique genre that I really like.
  
 http://chiasenhac.com/mp3/vietnam/v-pop/noi-lai-tinh-xua~bang-tam-dan-nguyen~1187305.html
  
 http://chiasenhac.com/mp3/vietnam/v-pop/lien-khuc-tinh-nguoi-ky-nu~truong-vu-che-linh-che-phong~1182324.html
  
 http://chiasenhac.com/mp3/vietnam/v-pop/phut-cuoi~che-linh-thanh-tuyen~1042559.html
  
  
 These are the kinds of song I listen to most, tell me what you guys think of it on the HD800
 Thanks for reading.


----------



## sheldaze

tom khuu said:


> Hey guys, my current setup is Val2/Bifrost Uber > HD650 and I'm thinking of upgrading to the HD800 with the same amp/dac which I'm sure will pair great with it.
> My only fear is the kind of music I'm listening to. I mostly listen to Vietnamese Yellow songs. Can you guys tell me how these sound?
> Sorry if it sounds foreign to you, it's just a very unique genre that I really like.
> 
> ...


 
 Not going to comment on your music selection - other than I'm quite a fan of the video collection Paris by Night.
 I'm also a fan of Lâm Thúy Vân, and in particular her rendition of Em Về...
  
 The setup you mention is one of the best entry points to the HD800 - a Bifrost and Valhalla 2. Whether or not you like it is more based on your personal tastes and becomes a lot more to do with the entire chain, including the production quality of the music and the DAC.  As I'm sure you're aware, there are two upgrades possible for the Bifrost, beyond the Uber. I'm currently using the 4490 with HD650 headphones, and it is fine. But the HD800 is that much more demanding (rewarding?) so you might consider going all the way to the Multibit. I know for me personally, I could not discern much difference going to Multibit (at one point in my past) when I was still using the HD650 headphones. Yes, I could hear it - but it was not a night and day difference. Using other headphones in my setup, the difference was much more noticeable. And I think this will be true for you, if you invest in HD800.
  
 So if you invest in the headphone upgrade, such as you find a great deal on a pair of HD800 (used) but find you do not like it - could be your DAC - could be the production quality of your music. But I seriously suggest you ask yourself if a DAC upgrade is a possibility along with your headphone upgrade. You may find yourself wanting the improved DAC after upgrading your headphones to the HD800. You may also find yourself disliking the details in some of the more poorly produced songs, songs which you once enjoyed. Are you planning to keep your HD650 so as to continue to enjoy those songs?


----------



## Tom Khuu

Oops, I have the HD600, not the HD650. And regarding to me keeping it after purchasing the HD800, well that depends. I've heard the HD800 being better then the HD600, but is harsh on songs with poor recording so there might be a place for my HD600 to stay. And as for my DAC, I think it's fine to keep the same setup I have now. Before the Multibit upgrade was out, the Val/Bifrost was consider a decent setup for the HD800 by reviewers, so I'm not too worried about my amp/dac combo being the problem. What I concern most is whether the type of songs I'm listening to would be good with the HD800.
 I might down the road look into buying an LCD-2 based on reviewers saying that it's good contrast to the HD800. So maybe sell my HD600 for another project? I don't know, only time will tell I guess.


----------



## sheldaze

tom khuu said:


> Oops, I have the HD600, not the HD650. And regarding to me keeping it after purchasing the HD800, well that depends. I've heard the HD800 being better then the HD600, but is harsh on songs with poor recording so there might be a place for my HD600 to stay. And as for my DAC, I think it's fine to keep the same setup I have now. Before the Multibit upgrade was out, the Val/Bifrost was consider a decent setup for the HD800 by reviewers, so I'm not too worried about my amp/dac combo being the problem. What I concern most is whether the type of songs I'm listening to would be good with the HD800.
> I might down the road look into buying an LCD-2 based on reviewers saying that it's good contrast to the HD800. So maybe sell my HD600 for another project? I don't know, only time will tell I guess.


 
 HD800S is an easier transition, especially from the already pretty accurate HD600. If you can make that stretch (for more money for the newer HD800S), I'd say go for it!
  
 However, LCD-2 would be better on Lyr 2. HD800/HD800S should be fine on Lyr 2 as well.


----------



## Tom Khuu

sheldaze said:


> HD800S is an easier transition, especially from the already pretty accurate HD600. If you can make that stretch (for more money for the newer HD800S), I'd say go for it!
> 
> However, LCD-2 would be better on Lyr 2. HD800/HD800S should be fine on Lyr 2 as well.




Aside from my Val2/Bifrost setup, I also have the magni/modi setup which I think should be enough to drive the lcd2. And as for the HD800S, I know that it's an improvement over the HD800, but not sure whether it's a $600 improvement. I've heard that the treble peak at 6khz has been toned down, which is something that can be fixed with the anaxilus mod.
What I think is best for me instead of spending an extra $600 on the HD800S, I could be spending that on a solid mid-high end IEM which I'm currently also looking to buy. I'm currently using the M50x for on-the-go headphones which I completely hate.


----------



## James-uk

tom khuu said:


> Aside from my Val2/Bifrost setup, I also have the magni/modi setup which I think should be enough to drive the lcd2. And as for the HD800S, I know that it's an improvement over the HD800, but not sure whether it's a $600 improvement. I've heard that the treble peak at 6khz has been toned down, which is something that can be fixed with the anaxilus mod.
> What I think is best for me instead of spending an extra $600 on the HD800S, I could be spending that on a solid mid-high end IEM which I'm currently also looking to buy. I'm currently using the M50x for on-the-go headphones which I completely hate.




I own the HD800 and now HD800S. I tried the Anax mod and it doesn't come close to emulating what sennheiser have done to improve the tonal balance of the HD800. Let's just say that my HD800 is in a box and I need to get around to selling them. 
The HD800S sounds like a true successor to the HD600 to my ears and I can't fault them . Imagine a HD600 with better bass in every way , cleaner/clearer treble and a smoother mid range (could be a negative as I love the bite to the 600s mids) add that to the better imaging and soundstage, better comfort and you pretty much have the most perfect open back dynamic headphone ever made imo.


----------



## Tom Khuu

james-uk said:


> I own the HD800 and now HD800S. I tried the Anax mod and it doesn't come close to emulating what sennheiser have done to improve the tonal balance of the HD800. Let's just say that my HD800 is in a box and I need to get around to selling them.
> The HD800S sounds like a true successor to the HD600 to my ears and I can't fault them . Imagine a HD600 with better bass in every way , cleaner/clearer treble and a smoother mid range (could be a negative as I love the bite to the 600s mids) add that to the better imaging and soundstage, better comfort and you pretty much have the most perfect open back dynamic headphone ever made imo.




I will keep this in mind. And have you tried any of the LCDs? I've been doing some research and I'm quite interested on the LCD-X


----------



## James-uk

tom khuu said:


> I will keep this in mind. And have you tried any of the LCDs? I've been doing some research and I'm quite interested on the LCD-X



I've not tried any Audeze . From what I've read I' don't think I would like the sound of any of them .


----------



## DavidA

tom khuu said:


> I will keep this in mind. And have you tried any of the LCDs? I've been doing some research and I'm quite interested on the LCD-X


 
 Audeze have a very different sound from HD-800/S, good complimentary headphones but comfort and build quality issues should be noted


----------



## Tom Khuu

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking of going for. Buying a decent used HD800 is about $900 with the LCD-2 going for about $850. I feel like there are better options for me personally then buying the HD800S. At this moment, the HD800S goes for $1700 new. With that kind of money, I can buy both the HD800 and the LCD-2 since they're kind of like the yin and yang of each other. Or buy one and spend $400-700 for a respectable on-the-go IEM. This is the two route that I feel will benefit me the most in the long run.
 And as for the built quality and comfort, I've heard about the LCD being heavy and might have some driver issue in the long run. This is something I have to do some research on before jumping on them, that's for sure.


----------



## blacknile

james-uk said:


> I own the HD800 and now HD800S. I tried the Anax mod and it doesn't come close to emulating what sennheiser have done to improve the tonal balance of the HD800. Let's just say that my HD800 is in a box and I need to get around to selling them.
> The HD800S sounds like a true successor to the HD600 to my ears and I can't fault them . Imagine a HD600 with better bass in every way , cleaner/clearer treble and a smoother mid range (could be a negative as I love the bite to the 600s mids) add that to the better imaging and soundstage, better comfort and you pretty much have the most perfect open back dynamic headphone ever made imo.


 
  
 Hi thanks for the above - what music do you listen to, mostly?


----------



## James-uk

blacknile said:


> Hi thanks for the above - what music do you listen to, mostly?



I listen to a bit of everything really but I find the older I'm getting I'm listening less to EDM and more to rock and pop, some country and folk etc . I would say my current go to would be male singer/songwriters followed by female singer /songwriters. I'm a big fan of Glen Hansard for example. 
Everything I throw at the HD800S though sounds SO good!


----------



## Arniesb

james-uk said:


> I listen to a bit of everything really but I find the older I'm getting I'm listening less to EDM and more to rock and pop, some country and folk etc . I would say my current go to would be male singer/songwriters followed by female singer /songwriters. I'm a big fan of Glen Hansard for example.
> Everything I throw at the HD800S though sounds SO good!


 Top 40 music hits is still good?


----------



## Sorrodje

arniesb said:


> Top 40 music hits is still good?


 
  
 Definitely less difficult to enjoy with a HD800S compared to the Classic HD800.


----------



## Arniesb

sorrodje said:


> Definitely less difficult to enjoy with a HD800S compared to the Classic HD800.


Ok thanks. Do you feel it is as good as hd650 for pop? I really liked pop on HD650.


----------



## Sorrodje

Nope. IMO in the bunch of totl headphones I heard the king for pop is the HEK. its mellifluous and somewhat forgiving nature does wonder fot that genre. 
  
 HD650  is from far the best value and IMO one of the best offer at any price for Blues, Rock, Soul, pop though.   HD800S is more an all rounder than the Classic HD800 but still not the most enjoyable headphone for top40.


----------



## Arniesb

sorrodje said:


> Nope. IMO in the bunch of totl headphones I heard the king for pop is the HEK. it's mellifluous and somewhat forgiving nature does wonder fot that genre.
> 
> HD650  is from far the best value and IMO one of the best offer at any price for Blues, Rock, Soul, pop though.   HD800S is more an all rounder than the Classic HD800 but still not the most enjoyable headphone for top40.


Thanks. Thats why HEK is so praised, there is still a lot of audiophiles who listen modern music.


----------



## vc1187

I find that my ears need some adjusting after listening with the HD650 and then moving to the HD800 or vice versa.
  
 The first pair listened to sounds fantastic, then the second pair always has shortcomings until my ears adjust.  
  
 From HD650 to HD800: HD800 sounds sterile, analytical
  
 From HD800 to HD650: HD650 sounds severely congested
  
 Just shows how different these two headphones really are.


----------



## James-uk

arniesb said:


> Top 40 music hits is still good?



For me personally the HD800 was a no go for top 40 mainstream pop and I would use the HD650 for that. Now I use the HD800S for everything . It manages to do give all the detail with none of the downsides . I suppose if I wanted to soften and warm up pop a bit then the HD650 would still be better but if I want to hear the music as pure as possible then the HD800S is perfect for me .
If I could only have 1 headphone to listen to it would be the HD800S . Before that it would of been the HD600 . I see both as neutral and therefore capable of handling anything , whereas I suppose the HD650 are slightly warm and the HD800 are slightly bright.


----------



## Arniesb

james-uk said:


> For me personally the HD800 was a no go for top 40 mainstream pop and I would use the HD650 for that. Now I use the HD800S for everything . It manages to do give all the detail with none of the downsides . I suppose if I wanted to soften and warm up pop a bit then the HD650 would still be better but if I want to hear the music as pure as possible then the HD800S is perfect for me .


Thanks for response bro. I dont like switching headphones very often. Thats good if HD800S can handle pop well. Oh i also thought HD600 was handeling pop music nicely, so if HD800S have similar balance as HD600 i guess it will also can be as good for pop. HD600 whould be only better if listening bad mastered music.


----------



## James-uk

arniesb said:


> Thanks for response bro. I dont like switching headphones very often. Thats good if HD800S can handle pop well.



It is the only open headphone I need now it's that good. Everything I throw at it sounds right just like my HD600 . It's basically an improved HD600 to me But without the 600s 'weaknesses' ie sub bass roll off , slightly 'grainy' treble and forward upper mids (I actually like this ) and smallish soundstage (vs 800).
The only thing I possibly prefer the Hd600 for is vocals but it's only because I find them more intimate.


----------



## Arniesb

james-uk said:


> It is the only open headphone I need now it's that good. Everything I throw at it sounds right just like my HD600 . It's basically an improved HD600 to me But without the 600s 'weaknesses' ie sub bass roll off , slightly 'grainy' treble and forward upper mids (I actually like this ) and smallish soundstage (vs 800).
> The only thing I possibly prefer the Hd600 for is vocals but it's only because I find them more intimate.


I pretty much agree with you. I liked vocals of HD600 more than on my HD650, male have perfect weight and tonality and female vocals are crisp how it should be! HD650 female vocals sometimes are not crisp when it needed to be. HD600 with every song nailed vocals perfectly. I have not heard HD800S, but heard HD800 and i thought HD600 was better in vocals.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

For classical, I prefer HD800 across the board, except for old, poor-quality recordings. I really can't comment on the HE-6 until I invest in a better amplifier, but I note that the vegan pads have seemed to degrade the clarity and bass impact versus stock velour.


----------



## GodsInHisHeaven

I wondered how good / strong the bass can be when EQed?
  
 My heavily modded HE 560 is my current weapon of choice and as my memory serves right the HD 800 had a larger soundstage, better sound separation and clearer mids but little to no bass.


----------



## cute

I bought new pads for my HD800, and have a difficult time installing them.  The mylar on the back seems to be a problem, as the old pads mylar seems to be formed around the plastic projections on the back of the pads.  Tried both new pads several times, but I seem to be all thumbs.  Each time I return to original pads, no problem with reinstalling them!
  
 Can someone with experience with ne pads offer some help/pictures?  I contacted Sennheiser support and there is no video for installing the new pads, just a video to remove them.
  
 Help please!


----------



## leng jai

godsinhisheaven said:


> I wondered how good / strong the bass can be when EQed?
> 
> My heavily modded HE 560 is my current weapon of choice and as my memory serves right the HD 800 had a larger soundstage, better sound separation and clearer mids* but little to no bass.*


 
  
 Not true at all, they have plenty of depth and a decent amount of mid-bass. I have no idea how there are so many people who think the HD800s have no bass, it's ridiculous. If you want to listen to a headphone that really has no mid-bass then try an AKG 701.


----------



## Fegefeuer

HD 800 has an impedance spike in midbass regions. If the amp succumbs at around 650 Ohm in that case then the kickbass is tame. A properly driven HD800 really kicks hard.


----------



## Kyle 491

Cute, you must use some real force to push down the earpads so that the plastic conforms to the neccessary shape. Dont be afraid of breaking the HD800, they are damn sturdy. Put both palms on the pad, lay the back of the earcup on a flat solid surface and use your whole body weight if neccessary.


----------



## cute

kyle 491 said:


> Cute, you must use some real force to push down the earpads so that the plastic conforms to the neccessary shape. Dont be afraid of breaking the HD800, they are damn sturdy. Put both palms on the pad, lay the back of the earcup on a flat solid surface and use your whole body weight if neccessary.


 

 Wouldn't that amount of force cave the screen in the center of the earcup?


----------



## DavidA

godsinhisheaven said:


> I wondered how good / strong the bass can be when EQed?
> 
> My heavily modded HE 560 is my current weapon of choice and as my memory serves right the HD 800 had a larger soundstage, better sound separation and clearer mids but little to no bass.


 
 I have to agree with @leng jai, the HD-800 properly amped has very good bass, and in some ways better than the HE-560 (mine is stock except for grill mod).


----------



## GodsInHisHeaven

Thanks for the feedback guys.
  
 Seems like it is time to add the HD 800 to my HE 560 as my end game headphones. I don't think I want to deal with 2k+ headphones.


----------



## hekeli

A properly amped _and_ EQd HD800 is something to behold...
  
 There's a reason stuff like Harman Curve exist. Just sayin.


----------



## DavidA

godsinhisheaven said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys.
> 
> Seems like it is time to add the HD 800 to my HE 560 as my end game headphones. I don't think I want to deal with 2k+ headphones.


 

 Good Luck and hope that you don't have to deal with $2k+ headphones


----------



## GodsInHisHeaven

davida said:


> Good Luck and hope that you don't have to deal with $2k+ headphones


 
 Let me rephrase that "I hope for the sake of my wallet, that I don't have to deal with 2k+ headphones".


----------



## ubs28

Strange question. Yesterday I retrieved the HD 800 from the sennheiser box where it has been stored for some listening. But now it is kinda smelly. I think it's the earpads. I tried to clean it with water but it still smells.

Any idea on what to do next? Can the earpads be thrown in the washing machine safely?


----------



## paulchiu

ubs28 said:


> Any idea on what to do next? Can the earpads be thrown in the washing machine safely?


 
  
 Hell NO!
  
 Just let it air out a few days.


----------



## Arniesb

paulchiu said:


> Hell NO!
> 
> Just let it air out a few days.


Yeah, i believe that washing them would be bad for acoustic properties... I think he should wash earpads very gently by hand.


----------



## Kyle 491

cute said:


> Wouldn't that amount of force cave the screen in the center of the earcup?


 
 Nope, if you look at the HD800, the black plastic around the metal mesh is what provides the structural strength. It will not bend, and is very strong stuff, Leona plastic If I recall correctly. I too feared breaking my HD800s initially, but Sennheiser clearly made this headphone to last, as they do with most of their higher end models.


----------



## johnjen

hekeli said:


> A properly amped _and_ EQd HD800 is something to behold...
> 
> *I whole heartedly agree… *
> 
> There's a reason stuff like Harman Curve exist. Just sayin.


*And while the bass can be spectacular, when it is properly coupled with the mids and up the results can be sublime.

JJ*


----------



## GodsInHisHeaven

johnjen said:


> *And while the bass can be spectacular, when it is properly coupled with the mids and up the results can be sublime.
> 
> JJ*


 
 Can you please put your bass perception of the HD 800 into perspective with for example the LCD 2.2 or the HE 560?


----------



## kavasc

Hi everyone, I've been a long time lurker of head-fi for about a year now. 
  
 I just got my HD800's yesterday and am currently seeing how they do on a Schiit Lyr 2. I do agree with most people that the 6-7k frequency spike is quite fatiguing on some recordings and music types. Thinking about modding them..
  
 Right now I only have a Modi 2U -> Lyr 2 / Magni 2 setup so I'm trying to decide if I really need a new amp (something along the lines of the Vioelectric V200) for the HD800s or not.


----------



## Mortalcoil

kavasc said:


> Hi everyone, I've been a long time lurker of head-fi for about a year now.
> 
> I just got my HD800's yesterday and am currently seeing how they do on a Schiit Lyr 2. I do agree with most people that the 6-7k frequency spike is quite fatiguing on some recordings and music types. Thinking about modding them..
> 
> Right now I only have a Modi 2U -> Lyr 2 / Magni 2 setup so I'm trying to decide if I really need a new amp (something along the lines of the Vioelectric V200) for the HD800s or not.


 

 Welcome to Head-Fi kavasc.
  
 According to many Violectric / Lake People afficianados the V200 is a nice match up for the HD-800.  Seems to offer a good value in terms of a price / performance ratio.
  
 As you are probably aware the 800 responds well to proper amplification, in some cases helping to tame those highs by bringing the bass more forward.  Better amplification offers the HD-800 the ability to breath and spread its wings so to speak.  The Anax mod is well worth looking into.
  
 Surely others will chime in with more suggestions and perspectives ...... have fun


----------



## kavasc

mortalcoil said:


> Welcome to Head-Fi kavasc.
> 
> According to many Violectric / Lake People afficianados the V200 is a nice match up for the HD-800.  Seems to offer a good value in terms of a price / performance ratio.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks! I am considering the V200 but I couldn't buy it right now after just having bought the HD800. Hopefully I can upgrade down the road, but at the moment I am really enjoying them with the Lyr 2. I have seen the Anax mod and I will probably end up doing that, just to see how it effects things.


----------



## johnjen

godsinhisheaven said:


> Can you please put your bass perception of the HD 800 into perspective with for example the LCD 2.2 or the HE 560?


I'm afraid I can't since I have neither, nor have spent any time with those cans.

I have heard the HE1Ks and LCDx's though.
And on my system in a back to back comparison.

Both of those planar cans have plenty of impact and bass response but in comparison lack, definition, inner details, and subsonic bass extension of the very bottom end.

Also the planars are more polite and smooth, but again are missing those inner details and the full range of the harmonic over and undertones in the midrange (and up) as well.

So if your goal is for enjoyable and smooth sonic traits vs hearing all of those micro-details and intonations, those planars will serve up a very pleasing acoustic presentation.

But I've become accustomed to hearing those subtle nuances in the music and miss them when they are lacking.

JJ


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

godsinhisheaven said:


> I wondered how good / strong the bass can be when EQed?
> 
> My heavily modded HE 560 is my current weapon of choice and as my memory serves right the HD 800 had a larger soundstage, better sound separation and clearer mids but little to no bass.


 
  
 I think my complaint was of the HE-6, and the answer is quite good, though I'm still on the fence about the vegan pads.
  
 HD800's bass can be improved, though it will never be planar bass; all told, I prefer HD800 for most classical and orchestral recordings, especially given my inadequate amping, but HE-6 is better for most everything else.
  
 I too had a horrible time replacing my ear pads last summer on the HD800—the trick as far as I can tell is to get three or four hands pulling the plastic part of the ear pad toward headphone frame at the same time. My issue was it seemed to 'click' in in one or two places, but not all 3-4 necessary to latch. With some dedication, though, it worked. I would replace the ear pads when they come to the end of their life. I replaced mine when I bought mine used and they had an incredible improvement on the sound.
  
 Magni and Lyr are both less than ideal for HD800—Vali and Valhalla are what you want, though Lyr is surely finer than Magni. Get Bifrost when you can


----------



## GodsInHisHeaven

Great impressions guys, thanks!
  
 In my memory the HD 800 has incredible detail and separation of all the sounds.
 There is this song "KAASI - Those Days" in particular were you can constantly hear rain sounds in the background (back of the head slightly to the left).
 With my HE 560 I can only ever so slightly hear it, whereas with the HD 800 the sound was always present and had a clear place in the headroom.
  
 I came to love the HE 560 for its more laid back sound, but somehow miss this detail.


----------



## kavasc

> Magni and Lyr are both less than ideal for HD800—Vali and Valhalla are what you want, though Lyr is surely finer than Magni. Get Bifrost when you can


 
  
 I wouldn't have thought to use the Vali with the HD800. I'll be dusting it off the shelf and trying it out.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

It's not as clear as Mjolnir, Phonitor, Ragnarok, WA5, etc., but despite a slightly smeared sound it has a truly beautiful tone. In terms of value it's a no-brainer.


----------



## Zombie_X

I don't think the V200 should be considered with the HD800 at all. You loose a bit of top end detail, air, and the soundstage is a bit smaller. The tone is warmer overall, but I can't get over the lack of ultra fine detail that the V200 is missing. After using the Phonitor Mini and switching to the V200, I can tell a lot of smaller details are lost and the resolution of the amp is lacking. The sound is a bit more congested. Bass looses some tightness and definition as well as some of it's texturing.


----------



## Thenewguy007

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I too had a horrible time replacing my ear pads last summer on the HD800—the trick as far as I can tell is to get three or four hands pulling the plastic part of the ear pad toward headphone frame at the same time. My issue was it seemed to 'click' in in one or two places, but not all 3-4 necessary to latch. With some dedication, though, it worked. I would replace the ear pads when they come to the end of their life. I replaced mine when I bought mine used and they had an incredible improvement on the sound.


 
  
 There is a video of someone taking off & putting back the earpads, but they offer no help in how they did it.
  
 It just looks like he was pressing onto the earpads & they somehow click into place.


----------



## ssrock64

Hey everyone. I'm considering finally getting an HD800 (have owned the PS1000, ESP950, T5p, HD650), but I've ignored it so thoroughly since getting into the hobby that I don't know much about people's amp preferences. I'm very interested in a Bottlehead S.E.X. pairing, but I can't seem to find many examples of owners with that pairing. Does anybody want to advocate for or against it, or perhaps suggest some common amp pairings that I could look into in the $500-$600 range on the used market? I looked back through the last few pages to get a start, but I'm sure everyone here knows how impossible Head-Fi's search function is. I have no interest in combined amps/DACs, since I've been an ODAC devotee for the last few years for reasons I can't explain.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Thenewguy007

ssrock64 said:


> Hey everyone. I'm considering finally getting an HD800 (have owned the PS1000, ESP950, T5p, HD650), but I've ignored it so thoroughly since getting into the hobby that I don't know much about people's amp preferences. I'm very interested in a Bottlehead S.E.X. pairing, but I can't seem to find many examples of owners with that pairing. Does anybody want to advocate for or against it, or perhaps suggest some common amp pairings that I could look into in the $500-$600 range on the used market? I looked back through the last few pages to get a start, but I'm sure everyone here knows how impossible Head-Fi's search function is. I have no interest in combined amps/DACs, since I've been an ODAC devotee for the last few years for reasons I can't explain.
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 I think the S.E.X is for lower impedance headphones & the Crack is for higher impedance headphones.
  
 here is a good write up on the tewo
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline


----------



## johnjen

bosiemoncrieff said:


> snip
> I too had a horrible time replacing my ear pads last summer on the HD800—the trick as far as I can tell is to get three or four hands pulling the plastic part of the ear pad toward headphone frame at the same time. My issue was it seemed to 'click' in in one or two places, but not all 3-4 necessary to latch. With some dedication, though, it worked. I would replace the ear pads when they come to the end of their life. I replaced mine when I bought mine used and they had an incredible improvement on the sound.
> snip


It's actually fairly easy once you find just the right spot to 'crack it open' just a tad.

I use my thumbnail to pry between the 'housing' of the earcup and the pad.

Try it in a few places and one will be easier to wedge your fingernail in there and 'pop' the earpad away, and once started the next place (not to far away) will usually release the whole thing.

Putting it back on is just bit trickier.

The shape of the earpad is sorta D shaped and I use the 2 corners of the D as starting places to align the pad to the earcup housing.
Once aligned then press the outside edge of the pad into housing in several places between the corners of the D.
Then once its fully started, (you can tell because the pads and housing 'merge' easily without struggle) then just press all the way around the edge of the pad so it is fully seated into the housing.

If it is a struggle then stop and reset the position of the pad on the housing and try again.

I hope this helps.

JJ


----------



## Yoga

HD800 + Sonarworks Reference 3 = amazing.
  
 Tamed highs and fatter bass, fuller mids.
  
 Give it a pop: http://sonarworks.com/headphones/overview/
  
 You can adjust the % of wet/dry (stock/EQ) signal to your liking too.


----------



## JamieMcC

ssrock64 said:


> Hey everyone. I'm considering finally getting an HD800 (have owned the PS1000, ESP950, T5p, HD650), but I've ignored it so thoroughly since getting into the hobby that I don't know much about people's amp preferences. I'm very interested in a Bottlehead S.E.X. pairing, but I can't seem to find many examples of owners with that pairing. Does anybody want to advocate for or against it, or perhaps suggest some common amp pairings that I could look into in the $500-$600 range on the used market? I looked back through the last few pages to get a start, but I'm sure everyone here knows how impossible Head-Fi's search function is. I have no interest in combined amps/DACs, since I've been an ODAC devotee for the last few years for reasons I can't explain.
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
  
 I have the HD800 Bottlehead Sex and Mainline. The Sex is a superb and very versatile amp its resolution speed and sound staging are very good and if later you wanted to hot rod it by fitting some high quality signal caps like the Mundorf Supreme Silver in Oils a stepped attenuator and choked power supply you can really ratchet up its performance. The C4S upgrade ($40) is a must have imho.
  
 I have been very happy with my Sex and use it for driving both headphones and Speakers (Fostex FX120 full range drivers listening to them at the moment) and its performance for the money is very good.
  
 If you need the flexibility the Sex offers for driving a wide range of headphonesincluding some of the more difficult planar headphones as well as driving speakers its really a very good option.
  
 Then we get to the Mainline and well its well just epic with the HD800 its such a good combination I am finding it hard to listen to anything else these days once you know what you have been missing its hard to go backwards. I also thought the Mainline was a easier build than the Sex.
  
 Stop by the Crack-Sex-Mainline bb and get some feed back there are several active Sex owners posting.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline/1470#post_12449004


----------



## zilch0md

yoga said:


> HD800 + Sonarworks Reference 3 = amazing.
> 
> Tamed highs and fatter bass, fuller mids.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Why does the price of a software plug-in vary with the headphone for which it is tailored?


----------



## yates7592

The price for the plug-in alone is constant. It only varies if you buy the plug-in as a bundle with a set of headphones.


----------



## zilch0md

yates7592 said:


> The price for the plug-in alone is constant. It only varies if you buy the plug-in as a bundle with a set of headphones.


 
  
 Ohhh!  Thanks! 
  
 (I'm still working on my first cup of coffee.)


----------



## yates7592

@ Yoga:
 How are you hosting the plug-in, and what settings are you using?


----------



## Yoga

yates7592 said:


> How are you hosting the plug-in, and what settings are you using?


 

 I assume this is directed at myself :¬)
  
 I'm using it in two scenarios, firstly with my DAW (Ableton Live) and secondly as a system wide tweak.
  
 For the latter you have two options, use Soundflower and PedalBoard2 (free):
  
 https://sonarworks.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/207678455--Mac-I-d-like-to-use-the-plugin-on-any-audio-source-and-not-just-in-my-DAW-
  
 Or Audio Hijack.
  
 The latter costs money but is the better / smoother solution. I was experiencing a few pops and cracks with the former, no such occurrences with the latter. Audio Hijack is a fully developed app with lots of options (and a great retina friendly UI).
  
 Sonarworks released a more optimised HD800 profile which I can dig up if you go this route.
  
 Being able to blend the stock/EQ signal by any % is the key to finding your own perfect balance. I use about 70%. Flat EQ option too (bottom left).


----------



## Taowolf51

kyle 491 said:


> Cute, you must use some real force to push down the earpads so that the plastic conforms to the neccessary shape. Dont be afraid of breaking the HD800, they are damn sturdy. Put both palms on the pad, lay the back of the earcup on a flat solid surface and use your whole body weight if neccessary.


 
  
 I did that too. Scared the **** out of me, but in the end I got the pads on. 
  


ubs28 said:


> Strange question. Yesterday I retrieved the HD 800 from the sennheiser box where it has been stored for some listening. But now it is kinda smelly. I think it's the earpads. I tried to clean it with water but it still smells.
> 
> Any idea on what to do next? Can the earpads be thrown in the washing machine safely?


  
 For some reason the Senn box smells, which ends up getting into the pads if you store it in the box for awhile. It's why I don't put it in the box. If you plan on storing it frequently, I'd recommend grabbing a pelican case for it.
  
 Just let it air out for a few days, should slowly reduce the smell. And don't stick it in the washing machine.
  


godsinhisheaven said:


> Can you please put your bass perception of the HD 800 into perspective with for example the LCD 2.2 or the HE 560?


 


  
 I can do a bit of comparing against the LCD-2. Of course, it's worth mentioning I sold my LCD-2 awhile ago, so it's old information (LCD-2, the version right before they implemented fazor).
  
 I agree with just about everything JJ said:
  


> Both of those planar cans have plenty of impact and bass response but in comparison lack, definition, inner details, and subsonic bass extension of the very bottom end.
> 
> Also the planars are more polite and smooth, but again are missing those inner details and the full range of the harmonic over and undertones in the midrange (and up) as well.
> 
> ...


  

 With one exception, in my experience the LCD-2 is able to easily match the HD800 with deep bass extension (and what little time I had with the LCD-X leads me to believe that is capable of just as much deep bass).
  
 I'm also using an HD800 that has been EQ'd to have flat bass, so keep that in mind. I wholeheartedly recommend EQing your HD800 if you end up with a pair, it really brings out the best in them.
  


thenewguy007 said:


> There is a video of someone taking off & putting back the earpads, but they offer no help in how they did it.
> 
> It just looks like he was pressing onto the earpads & they somehow click into place.


 
  
 Once the HD800 pads have been put on for the first time and left on for a little while, it becomes much easier to put them on. Much MUCH easier. Putting a new pair of pads on is a pretty damn difficult, but an old pair snaps on with little difficulty.


----------



## ssrock64

thenewguy007 said:


> I think the S.E.X is for lower impedance headphones & the Crack is for higher impedance headphones.
> 
> here is a good write up on the tewo
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline


 

 You have a point there, but I've always shied away from the Crack for that very reason. I don't want to lock myself into something with an output impedance that effectively limits my choice if I end up with another PS1000 or something similar down the road.


----------



## johnjen

taowolf51 said:


> snip
> 
> I agree with just about everything JJ said:
> 
> ...



I had a pair of LCD-x's here on my system and while they are like the other planars, in that the bass is (or can be) substantial, what I noticed (by comparison) was a slight lack of very bottom end resolution on all of the planars I've been able to use in my system.

And granted my system is also EQ'd and other tricks have been added as well, but between the subsonic 'softness' and harmonic differences of the entire bottom end I MUCH prefer the 800's.

In some cases the fast attack 'voices' can be so fast that it's over before I even have a chance to react.
This is akin to the autonomic blink response, where the 'stimulus' happens so fast, and is stopped so quickly, it's seems to be over before it even started.

The 800's can do a REALLY good job of this, and with authority, all the way down to well below 20Hz.

I never heard the planars match this degree of extension, nor with the resolution (micro detail) AND authority (Power).

But then I'm really focused upon those inner details and the ability to resolve the acoustic presentation, which is my bias.

JJ


----------



## Taowolf51

johnjen said:


> I had a pair of LCD-x's here on my system and while they are like the other planars, in that the bass is (or can be) substantial, what I noticed (by comparison) was a slight lack of very bottom end resolution on all of the planars I've been able to use in my system.


 
  
 Ah, so you're taking resolution rather than volume? I misinterpreted what you said as saying the LCD-X had bass rolloff.
  


johnjen said:


> In some cases the fast attack 'voices' can be so fast that it's over before I even have a chance to react.
> This is akin to the autonomic blink response, where the 'stimulus' happens so fast, and is stopped so quickly, it's seems to be over before it even started.
> 
> The 800's can do a REALLY good job of this, and with authority, all the way down to well below 20Hz.
> ...


  

 Definitely agree with the "planar softness", I never ended up getting the detail I needed from planars. Sometimes, the soft and smooth response of Audeze cans is just what I need, but I certainly couldn't live with soft headphone as my only can. More often than not I need to hear the detail and texture of everything. And to my knowledge, nothing is able to produce both quite like the HD800.
  
  
  
 Interesting to see the LCD-4 review. It seems the HD800S has made Tyll realize headphone manufacturers can (and should) do better in the high end open-back sector. He'll be knocking at least a few headphones in that area off the Wall of Fame in an attempt to raise the standards of summit-fi cans.


----------



## johnjen

taowolf51 said:


> Ah, so you're taking resolution rather than volume? I misinterpreted what you said as saying the LCD-X had bass rolloff.
> [COLOR=FF00AA]
> Yes resolution and for me are the harmonic/intonation relationships 'correct', as in, are the over and undertones presented 'properly'.[/COLOR]
> 
> ...


[COLOR=FF00AA]Some are charging crazy money for marginal improvements and for me some of these changes are mostly 'affect', which means they can be quite initially impressive, yet in the fullness of time are less compelling due to the 'affect' wearing off, so to speak.
It's great for sales, for a while, then the used market starts to fill up as people want to move on.

But I was VERY impressed with the flatness of the curve of the LCD-4 from 10Hz all the way up to 11-1200Hz.
That is a remarkable achievement by any standard.

But they still are heavy, and a bit awkward, and by comparison to less intrusive cans such as the 800's, impose their physical presence while using them.
This intrusion into the listening experience usually means I can only leave them on for a couple of hours before they need to come off and let my ears and head return to 'normal'.
Whereas the 800's can and have stayed on my head for 4-6 hours (or more) at a stretch and the need to take them off wasn't due to them but for other reasons (get more water, take a pee break etc.).

This is a testament to their comfort and minimal physical intrusion while listening, which is a factor I value but doesn't seem to be noticed nor mentioned much.

JJ[/COLOR]


----------



## blacknile

I have to disagree with the opinion below. My (late SN) HD800 works beautifully with my Violectric V200 - beautifully detailed, incredible microdynamics on well recorded acoustic music. The match is, to my ears, superior to the one achieved with the Schiit amp I had before (admittedly, one of their midfi lower range models) and about as good as with my other amp, the Meier Corda Classic. I warmly recommend the HD800/V200 combo for classical,acoustic, jazz.




zombie_x said:


> I don't think the V200 should be considered with the HD800 at all. You loose a bit of top end detail, air, and the soundstage is a bit smaller. The tone is warmer overall, but I can't get over the lack of ultra fine detail that the V200 is missing. After using the Phonitor Mini and switching to the V200, I can tell a lot of smaller details are lost and the resolution of the amp is lacking. The sound is a bit more congested. Bass looses some tightness and definition as well as some of it's texturing.


----------



## jibzilla

johnjen said:


> I had a pair of LCD-x's here on my system and while they are like the other planars, in that the bass is (or can be) substantial, what I noticed (by comparison) was a slight lack of very bottom end resolution on all of the planars I've been able to use in my system.
> 
> And granted my system is also EQ'd and other tricks have been added as well, but between the subsonic 'softness' and harmonic differences of the entire bottom end I MUCH prefer the 800's.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have to disagree but I do not eq. I think you are making a much bigger deal about this extension than it deserves. The genres that have the most bass is electronic and rap and well 95% is still just mid bass not sub bass. Out of 400 drum and bass mp3's I can only think of one that is mostly red (sub bass) on my serato sl-3. A loxy and ink song if I'm not mistaken. 
  
 Maybe the hd800 would work better for that one track but that is one track out of 400 and well there isn't a genre that has more bass than drum and bass. Mid bass no question the lcd-x punches harder than the hd800 and to me the for sure better basshead option.


----------



## johnjen

jibzilla said:


> I have to disagree but I do not eq. I think you are making a much bigger deal about this extension than it deserves. The genres that have the most bass is electronic and rap and well 95% is still just mid bass not sub bass. Out of 400 drum and bass mp3's I can only think of one that is mostly red (sub bass) on my serato sl-3. A loxy and ink song if I'm not mistaken.
> 
> Maybe the hd800 would work better for that one track but that is one track out of 400 and well there isn't a genre that has more bass than drum and bass. Mid bass no question the lcd-x punches harder than the hd800 and to me the for sure better basshead option.


 
 I understand.
 But as you stated "I do not eq." so we're comparing apples to some other fruit in this case.
 And I'm not using MP3's either.
 This is either 192KB all the way down to at the minimum 44.1 CD's
  
 Until you experience your head rattling or feel concussive effects in your chest when they haul off and whack that 6' drum in the firebird suite, or when the organist double pedals so the subharmonics rattle your body, then you'll know what I mean when I talk about bass.
  
 And I have some EDM and other synthesized bass (Overwerk, Bela Fleck, Mike Oldfield, Thom Rotella Band, etc.) that is all to often frequency limited and often times compressed as well, while remaining very impressive.
  
 But in Copland's Fanfare for the Common Man where they haul off an whack that big drum, it has concussive effects.
 And nothing will ever beat the cannon shots used in the 1812 overture, especially when you hear the echos of the shot bounce off the foothills in the area.
 Or when you hear the air handling system's low frequency lope, just before the symphony starts.
  
 There are other results due to 'proper' EQ in addition to just punchy bass, but until the EQ is dialed in they will probably remain 'hidden'.
 Of course this presupposes that the rest of the system can deliver the 'good stuff' so the 800's will actually deliver this level of acoustic power, in the first place.
  
 But there is a surprising amount of very low freq music 'buried' or 'hidden' and until it is brought up to the same level as everything else, it may not even be suspected it even exists.
  
  
 EDIT:
 Let me clarify that I don't mean to point this AT you but to use your post as an example of what I mean by low frequency response, and more pointedly what is possible when things get tweaked.
  
 JJ


----------



## hekeli

jibzilla said:


> The genres that have the most bass is electronic and rap and well 95% is still just mid bass not sub bass.


 
  
 Would you clarify in hz what you consider midbass and subbass? Thanks.


----------



## georgelai57

What would be a decent value-for-money cable replacement for the HD800 below $150? Non-balanced.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

the stock has always sounded fine to me.


----------



## listen4joy

i see it in this way.
 HD800S little better than HD800,
 HD800+SD mod almost equal to HD800S, and the price diffrence didint jusifty to upgrade it, the diffrences is minor.
 HD800+SD MOD with EQ better from HD800S.
 HD800S with EQ not benefit so well.


----------



## Taowolf51

georgelai57 said:


> What would be a decent value-for-money cable replacement for the HD800 below $150? Non-balanced.


 
  
 You're not going to find much at that price point. New, the only thing I can think of is a BestInTheVerse cable. If you go used, you might find one every so often.


----------



## iDesign

listen4joy said:


> i see it in this way.
> HD800S little better than HD800,
> HD800+SD mod almost equal to HD800S, and the price diffrence didint jusifty to upgrade it, the diffrences is minor.
> HD800+SD MOD with EQ better from HD800S.
> HD800S with EQ not benefit so well.




I see it in this way: 

*Stock:* HD 800 S is better than HD 800 
*Stock + EQ:* HD 800 is better than HD 800 S because there is no second harmonic bass distortion 
*Modified + EQ:* A SuperDuPont modified HD 800 is better than a stock HD800 S because there is no second harmonic bass distortion 
*Modified:* A stock HD 800 S is better than a SuperDuPont modified HD 800


----------



## jibzilla

hekeli said:


> Would you clarify in hz what you consider midbass and subbass? Thanks.


 
  
 Midbass to me is 100-500hz, subbass below 100hz. I respect people who modify and eq their headphones but you really take them out of any comparing to other headphones. Did johnjen modify his lcd-X? I don't know. Honestly I do not know of any mods for the lcd-X. Did he eq the lcd-X? Again I do not know. In stock form I find much more bass roll off in the hd800 than lcd-X. 
  
 I thought allot of the bass I was listening to was subbass but as I ran song after song through serato it was crystal clear (399 out of 400 songs) that I was listening to midbass. If you notice johnjen does not mention any genre. Just a few songs/examples. He points out that he does not use mp3's. Well I have just as many records as mp3's and I have to say still the same midbass, not subbass.
  
 I'm not saying there is not subbassy songs out there. As I mentioned I have a Loxy and Ink song that is pure red throughout on my serato. Nothing but subbass. But it is rare even among bass heavy genres like electronic and rap.


----------



## hekeli

jibzilla said:


> Midbass to me is 100-500hz, subbass below 100hz. I respect people who modify and eq their headphones but you really take them out of any comparing to other headphones. Did johnjen modify his lcd-X? I don't know. Honestly I do not know of any mods for the lcd-X. Did he eq the lcd-X? Again I do not know. In stock form I find much more bass roll off in the hd800 than lcd-X.
> 
> I thought allot of the bass I was listening to was subbass but as I ran song after song through serato it was crystal clear (399 out of 400 songs) that I was listening to midbass. If you notice johnjen does not mention any genre. Just a few songs/examples. He points out that he does not use mp3's. Well I have just as many records as mp3's and I have to say still the same midbass, not subbass.
> 
> I'm not saying there is not subbassy songs out there. As I mentioned I have a Loxy and Ink song that is pure red throughout on my serato. Nothing but subbass. But it is rare even among bass heavy genres like electronic and rap.


 
  
 Well.. we could again refer to the "popular" chart: http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/images/main_chart.jpg
  
 As you see even many instruments lie down in the 60hz area. Most electronic music bass is below 100hz anyway, so I have no idea what you are talking about?? Of course they might include upper harmonics.
  
 Most of my electronish' music collection extends down to 40hz. 30hz is getting somewhat rare. _Feel free to download any spectrogram tool out there to view the content of your own tracks_, instead of "listening to serato".
  
 Standard Daft Punk for you..


----------



## Solarium

Just bought a pristine HD800 with 1 year warranty left for $750 on ebay! The canadian to US conversion rate is superb right now  I can finally return my amazon HD800 now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 For those who use the HD800 with iDSD, do you feel like a need for a separate amp like the iCAN to power the HD800?
  
 Also, I'm a newb when it comes to EQ, but I hear that the HD800 can be EQ'ed very well. Any EQ programs and settings you guys recommend?
  
 Finally "officially" joining the HD800 family


----------



## jibzilla

hekeli said:


> Well.. we could again refer to the "popular" chart: http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/images/main_chart.jpg
> 
> As you see even many instruments lie down in the 60hz area. Most electronic music bass is below 100hz anyway, so I have no idea what you are talking about?? Of course they might include upper harmonics.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I only see 3 instruments. Not many. I see many above 60hz. If you want to say electronic most electronic bass is below 100hz that is fine but I do not see it on my serato.


----------



## Zombie_X

blacknile said:


> I have to disagree with the opinion below. My (late SN) HD800 works beautifully with my Violectric V200 - beautifully detailed, incredible microdynamics on well recorded acoustic music. The match is, to my ears, superior to the one achieved with the Schiit amp I had before (admittedly, one of their midfi lower range models) and about as good as with my other amp, the Meier Corda Classic. I warmly recommend the HD800/V200 combo for classical,acoustic, jazz.


 
  
 It's lacking far to much micro detail for me. Not a bad pairing, but compared to my ROC and Phonitor Mini, there is a lot of detail missing. The V200 smears some transients and detail and darkens the sound. Though with the DT990, the V200 makes such a good difference. I can't listen to the HD800 on my V200 because of the muddles bits and lack of transient attack.


----------



## blacknile

zombie_x said:


> It's lacking far to much micro detail for me. Not a bad pairing, but compared to my ROC and Phonitor Mini, there is a lot of detail missing. The V200 smears some transients and detail and darkens the sound. Though with the DT990, the V200 makes such a good difference. I can't listen to the HD800 on my V200 because of the muddles bits and lack of transient attack.


 
  
 That doesn't sound like my V200 I'm afraid. Any chance you might own a faulty sample? Mine renders micro-detail marvellously. I am lucky enough to have listened to the same performance live and on recording (Jordi Savall and Hesperion XXI on AliaVox). I am extremely familiar with Jordi Savall's viola da gamba sound and I would be extremely disappointed if the reproduction was muddled or dark.  My HD800+V200 setup gives me by far the most convincing approximation of micro-detail and dynamics of any combos I have tried (I have tried quite a few) for period string instruments and period performances on original instruments, where detail is everything. What kind of input material are you using? Another great amp I would recommend is the Meier Audio Corda Classic.


----------



## vc1187

It's been a while since I owned the Violectric V200, but I found it to be a great match with the HD800.  As far as detail retrieval and smearing goes, I can't comment against TOTL headphone amps since I owned it while I only had a Bottlehead Crack w/speedball to compare against, but I can say that it had more clarity, better micro-detail retrieval, and a leaner yet more defined bass when compared to the Crack.
  
 There are many that consider the Crack w/speedball a good entry level amp with the HD800, so I'd consider the V200 a good next step up... However, if you're willing to go tubes... I've heard much better tube amps with the HD800 that cost around the range of the V200


----------



## Taowolf51

hekeli said:


> Well.. we could again refer to the "popular" chart: http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/images/main_chart.jpg
> 
> As you see even many instruments lie down in the 60hz area. Most electronic music bass is below 100hz anyway, so I have no idea what you are talking about?? Of course they might include upper harmonics.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I did this myself, lots of content is below 100Hz. In fact, one of the main reasons I listen to my speakers so little is because they roll off around 50Hz and it makes such a large difference in a lot of my music. But I think the two arguments aren't quite talking about the same thing.
  
 If I read Jib's post correctly, he's saying that it's rare for songs to have a majority of their content below 100Hz, not that it's rare for songs to have content below 100Hz. The original argument stemmed from the idea that planars lack detail in subbass, not that there's any actual subbass rolloff. And Jib (I'm pretty sure) was saying that it wasn't a huge deal because few songs are mostly in the subbass area. Am I on the right track, Jibzilla?
  
 Also, I think part of it is the fact that he/she is also focusing on DnB and rap, which in my experience generally don't feature a ton of subbass content. Rap has always been midbass focused, and DnB is similar. In fact, DnB has been getting brighter and brighter as time has gone on, to the point that I would now call a lot of it generally "bright" in tonality because of its heavier focus on upper midrange and lower treble. To find a decent amount of bass content you need to look to some of the bigger (and older) artists like Amon Tobin. Rap and DnB with lots of subbass content exists, it's just not super common.
  


solarium said:


> Also, I'm a newb when it comes to EQ, but I hear that the HD800 can be EQ'ed very well. Any EQ programs and settings you guys recommend?
> 
> Finally "officially" joining the HD800 family


 
  
 EqualizerAPO with the Peace GUI is a great start. It's free for Windows, sounds great, and offers a ton of flexibility. Plus, it's parametric (I would personally only recommend parametric EQ's since they offer the level of control you need).


----------



## jibzilla

taowolf51 said:


> I did this myself, lots of content is below 100Hz. In fact, one of the main reasons I listen to my speakers so little is because they roll off around 50Hz and it makes such a large difference in a lot of my music. But I think the two arguments aren't quite talking about the same thing.
> 
> If I read Jib's post correctly, he's saying that it's rare for songs to have a majority of their content below 100Hz, not that it's rare for songs to have content below 100Hz. The original argument stemmed from the idea that planars lack detail in subbass, not that there's any actual subbass rolloff. And Jib (I'm pretty sure) was saying that it wasn't a huge deal because few songs are mostly in the subbass area. Am I on the right track, Jibzilla?
> 
> ...


 
  
 You are spot on sir. Every electronic track has subbass. If you do not have it pretty much forget about playing at the clubs. It is what the club goers want. To feel that thump in your chest. It is usually the kick at around 40-50hz that gets the bass and the rest of the bass is above that. There are some songs that have the bass emphasis on the bass, not the kick but in my experience it is not that common. The only people that can pull off bass and kick emphasis in the bass are masters at side chaining.  
  
 You are right in the older dnb/rap artists. My records are mostly kickbass style but there are def. more subbassy songs on my records than mp3. All my records are 1995-2006.


----------



## Solarium

taowolf51 said:


> I did this myself, lots of content is below 100Hz. In fact, one of the main reasons I listen to my speakers so little is because they roll off around 50Hz and it makes such a large difference in a lot of my music. But I think the two arguments aren't quite talking about the same thing.
> 
> If I read Jib's post correctly, he's saying that it's rare for songs to have a majority of their content below 100Hz, not that it's rare for songs to have content below 100Hz. The original argument stemmed from the idea that planars lack detail in subbass, not that there's any actual subbass rolloff. And Jib (I'm pretty sure) was saying that it wasn't a huge deal because few songs are mostly in the subbass area. Am I on the right track, Jibzilla?
> 
> ...




Thx for the recommendation, just downloaded and installed both. What settings do you recommend with the HD800? Are there downloadable profiles? Which treble peak, if using iDSD which is a brighter DAC/amp combo, should be lowered, and by how much?


----------



## Zombie_X

blacknile said:


> That doesn't sound like my V200 I'm afraid. Any chance you might own a faulty sample? Mine renders micro-detail marvellously. I am lucky enough to have listened to the same performance live and on recording (Jordi Savall and Hesperion XXI on AliaVox). I am extremely familiar with Jordi Savall's viola da gamba sound and I would be extremely disappointed if the reproduction was muddled or dark.  My HD800+V200 setup gives me by far the most convincing approximation of micro-detail and dynamics of any combos I have tried (I have tried quite a few) for period string instruments and period performances on original instruments, where detail is everything. What kind of input material are you using? Another great amp I would recommend is the Meier Audio Corda Classic.


 
  
 Not faulty I'm afraid, though my Phonitor Mini's amp section fully blew out a week back.... Sad times.
  
 Well I use my Violectric V800 DAC and use a bunch of metal and rock to test out my headphones. Nothing in lossless quality, as there's no difference between my LAME encoded MP3's and FLAC. I do have some stuff from HDTracks that sounds great (Rush - Moving Pictures) and a bunch of Mobile Fidelity stuff. All being feed to the V800 via USB 2.0. There's no audible distortion or clipping on my gear, or noise in the line from my PC. I also have a Marantz multi disc SACD player that I use the opitcal out to the DAC.


----------



## Solarium

Been playing around EqualizerAPO with the Peace GUI a bit, this is incredible! Why would anyone not just get the most neutral DAC and amp out there with the HD800 and equalize the crap out of it? I don't see the purpose of trying out different amps to test out different colorations when you have the power of an equalizer. Just using a -2 dB on 8000/16000/20000hz basically completely gets rid of the treble fatigue for me.


----------



## hekeli

solarium said:


> Why would anyone not just get the most neutral DAC and amp out there with the HD800 and equalize the crap out of it?


 
  
 Because dacs and amps make different effect than modifying frequency response? Good luck debating about "most neutral" stuff. Do you consider your Bimby/Lyr2 that?


----------



## stvn758

What are the ear pads made of, someone in another thread posted they were actually microfiber not Alcantara?
  
 If the manufacturer says you can put the stuff in the washing machine I'm thinking some water and washing powder would do the trick just as it'd done for my Ultrasone and AKG pads? Ears produce a lot of oils and bacteria, stick a pair of headphones over them for a few hours and no amount of delicate cleaning with a damp cloth is going to get rid of that itchy unclean feeling when you put them back on. 
  
  
 Daily cleaning It is sufficient to dust Alcantara® using a soft brush, a dry cloth, or a vacuum cleaner.
  
 Weekly cleaning After having dusted Alcantara®, run a slightly moistened white cotton cloth over it. Avoid the use of printed absorbent cloths/papers as they can release ink onto the material.
  
 Yearly cleaning If the upholstery is removable, it is recommended that you wash it in a washing machine, following the instructions below (general washing instructions). If the upholstery is not removable it is possible to clean Alcantara®, by using specific products listed in the web-site www.alcantara.com. If such products are not available, please follow these instructions: dust the material with care; moisten a soft cloth or a sponge in clean water, wring it thoroughly and run it over the whole Alcantara® material, making sure not to wet it excessively; rinse the cloth or sponge and repeat as necessary. Leave to dry (overnight).
  
 Once dried, in order to restore the material, brush it delicately with a soft bristle brush.


----------



## GodsInHisHeaven

Any suggestions on good upgrade cables for the HD 800. Budget around 300€.
  
 I already have a very nice Forza Audioworks Noir Hybrid HPC for my HE 560. Matt could make me adapters for around 100 €. What do you guys think about the idea of using an adapter?


----------



## Mortalcoil

godsinhisheaven said:


> Any suggestions on good upgrade cables for the HD 800. Budget around 300€.
> 
> I already have a very nice Forza Audioworks Noir Hybrid HPC for my HE 560. Matt could make me adapters for around 100 €. What do you guys think about the idea of using an adapter?


 

  Norne Draug 2


----------



## Taowolf51

solarium said:


> Thx for the recommendation, just downloaded and installed both. What settings do you recommend with the HD800? Are there downloadable profiles? Which treble peak, if using iDSD which is a brighter DAC/amp combo, should be lowered, and by how much?


 
  
 I recommend playing around and finding something you like. I can give you my current settings if you'd like, though.
  
 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4E7Vmfs0xjhV1N3R1hrYTBqWkE/view?usp=sharing
  
 It corrects for the bass rolloff, giving it flat bass, gives it a slight rise to 1k (a tip from Bob Katz for how to give your headphone better vocal presence), corrects for a bit of the 2-5k dip, and corrects a bit of the 6k spike (not a ton, though, since I also have the anax mod on my headphones).
  


stvn758 said:


> What are the ear pads made of, someone in another thread posted they were actually microfiber not Alcantara?
> 
> Yearly cleaning If the upholstery is removable, it is recommended that you wash it in a washing machine, following the instructions below (general washing instructions). If the upholstery is not removable it is possible to clean Alcantara®, by using specific products listed in the web-site www.alcantara.com. If such products are not available, please follow these instructions: dust the material with care; moisten a soft cloth or a sponge in clean water, wring it thoroughly and run it over the whole Alcantara® material, making sure not to wet it excessively; rinse the cloth or sponge and repeat as necessary. Leave to dry (overnight).


 
  
  
 IIRC, Alcantara is a type of microfiber. But, I'd also be careful about mechanical damage to the plastic in the washing machine as well as potential damage to the foam on the inside.


----------



## defbear

mortalcoil said:


> Norne Draug 2


+1


----------



## Solarium

taowolf51 said:


> I recommend playing around and finding something you like. I can give you my current settings if you'd like, though.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4E7Vmfs0xjhV1N3R1hrYTBqWkE/view?usp=sharing
> 
> It corrects for the bass rolloff, giving it flat bass, gives it a slight rise to 1k (a tip from Bob Katz for how to give your headphone better vocal presence), corrects for a bit of the 2-5k dip, and corrects a bit of the 6k spike (not a ton, though, since I also have the anax mod on my headphones).


 
 That -2 dB correction for 6k and 15k is perfect IMO even when I'm not using any mods and a brighter DAC/amp. Does the +8 dB at 10hz make any difference at all? I tried adjusting different values on 10hz but have not noticed any difference, making me thing HD800 doesn't get past anywhere near 20hz. Also, I'm assuming that when we are adjusting certain frequencies, like the 6.5k, that -2 applies to a certain extent to the nearby frequencies as well? Like the range from 5-8k will also get a dip as well? Also, why do you have a -9 dB setting for pre-amp? It just make everything quieter.


----------



## Solarium

taowolf51 said:


> I dunno, I'm of the camp that believes it's better to go with a headphone where the technicalities match your preferences the most (as long as the frequency response isn't insanely different from what you like). Frequency response is easy to change, technicalities are not. My HD800's are EQ'd to flat bass down to 10Hz, a slight rising response to 1k (as recommended by Bob Katz for better midrange and vocal presence), a reduction in the dip from 2-5k, a reduction in the 6k spike (both through EQ and through mods to handle ringing and issues in the time domain), and a smooth upper treble response. It performs excellently with electronic, and I'd argue in many aspects is better than Audeze's offerings for many types of electronic music. I've spent time with the LCD-3, X, XC, and owned the 2's for some time (they were my primary headphones before I picked up the HD800's). I ended up being more satisfied with the HD800's with electronic music than any other headphone I have owned.
> 
> DnB is one of the genres where I would say the Audeze headphones have an advantage, because they mostly focus on bass and lower midrange, AKA the strengths of Audeze's headphones. However, despite the fact that my HD800's likely look a lot like LCD headphones in the bass and lower midrange, the technicalities are what set them apart and give Audeze the advantage. Audeze's headphones have a great amount of weight while still being decently fast, and parts of their midrange has some of the best euphonics I've ever heard. However, I've noticed that with the LCD-2's, electronic music was either amazing or disappointing. They have weight in the bass, but lack in energy, detail, and instrument separation when compared to the HD800's. They're also more selective with their texture. The bass has good texture (amazing weight, but it doesn't do as well with faster and more complex bass sections, it smooths them a bit), the range of brass instruments has amazing texture (the best I've heard), but the rest of it is very smooth (which is great for some music, but not so great with electronic music). I noticed I would listen to my LCD-2's at a much louder volume than normal to try to eak out some texture and excitement in a lot of electronic music. This actually led to a temporary reduction of my hearing range I was doing it so much (down to about 17-18k from 19.5k, thankfully it went back up to 19k after a bit). The HD800, in comparison, has very very good texture throughout the frequency range. The bass punches, the midrange bites, and the treble cuts (but in a good way). I'd put the HD800 at the top of the list for texture, which I personally consider very important for electronic. It even provides surprising amounts of texture at low volumes, so I never really feel the need to crank them.
> 
> ...


 
 Amazing choices with the sample pieces btw, those flashbulb soundtracks are absolutely amazing with your EQ. I actually had to turn off the Xbass of my iDSD because the bass was getting a bit intense for my liking and I felt that it almost muddied the rest of the frequencies. Just added those soundtracks to my spotify playlist


----------



## Taowolf51

solarium said:


> That -2 dB correction for 6k and 15k is perfect IMO even when I'm not using any mods and a brighter DAC/amp. Does the +8 dB at 10hz make any difference at all? I tried adjusting different values on 10hz but have not noticed any difference, making me thing HD800 doesn't get past anywhere near 20hz. Also, I'm assuming that when we are adjusting certain frequencies, like the 6.5k, that -2 applies to a certain extent to the nearby frequencies as well? Like the range from 5-8k will also get a dip as well? Also, why do you have a -9 dB setting for pre-amp? It just make everything quieter.


 
  
 So Equalizer APO is a parametric EQ, which works differently from something like a graphic EQ. Parametric EQ's give the user more control and don't have the "wavy" response graphic EQ's do.
  
 The way they work is through a base frequency, a strength, and a Q value. The Q value is the key here, what it does is it makes the curve sharper or more smooth. Higher Q values provide a sharper curve, while duller EQ values provide a smoother curve.
  
 Here's an illustration:
  

  
  
 When used in practice (for example), the 6k spike is a spike, so it needs a sharp EQ cut to compensate. You'll notice the 6.5k band I created has a Q value of 3, which is pretty sharp. It allows me to be more precise with cutting that peak out without affecting surrounding frequencies.
  
 However, the 10Hz band has a Q of 0.3, which is very dull. What that allows me to do is to have a very smooth curve that starts at +8db at 10Hz, and smoothly descends to +0db at about 70Hz, which mirrors the HD800's bass rolloff. Combining the two equals flat bass extension down to 10Hz with no bass rolloff.
  
 When in the Peace GUI, click on the button that looks like a frequency response graph with a green line (on the middle-right of the window). This will open up a graph that shows you visually what the EQ bands are doing.
  
 Oh, and about the preamp setting, always set your preamp to the negative of 1db higher than your strongest frequency boost. For example, the highest boost in mine is that +8db 0.3Q at 10Hz, so I set the preamp to -9db. What that does is actually makes the EQ cut frequencies rather than boost them, which is necessary to prevent distortion. You don't want your EQ causing clipping, which it certainly can do if you boost frequencies rather than cut them. Just turn your amp up to compensate.
  
  


solarium said:


> Amazing choices with the sample pieces btw, those flashbulb soundtracks are absolutely amazing with your EQ. I actually had to turn off the Xbass of my iDSD because the bass was getting a bit intense for my liking and I felt that it almost muddied the rest of the frequencies. Just added those soundtracks to my spotify playlist


 
  
 Glad you like them! The Flashbulb (Benn Jordan) always makes incredible music. I'd recommend checking his other stuff out, each album (especially recently) is very different and he's always experimenting. I have a massive amount of respect for the guy.
  
 And you shouldn't necessarily need that bass boost anymore with the parametric EQ. I've set up flat bass, and you can boost it yourself if you want the bass to be north of flat. The parametric EQ should give you a lot more control over how much bass you want and where.


----------



## Solarium

taowolf51 said:


> So Equalizer APO is a parametric EQ, which works differently from something like a graphic EQ. Parametric EQ's give the user more control and don't have the "wavy" response graphic EQ's do.
> 
> The way they work is through a base frequency, a strength, and a Q value. The Q value is the key here, what it does is it makes the curve sharper or more smooth. Higher Q values provide a sharper curve, while duller EQ values provide a smoother curve.
> 
> ...


 
 That's quite a lesson and a good read! I can't believe I just started dabbling in EQ'ing my headphones, although the HD800 is probably the best one to start with. I feel like with the -9dB preamp setting I have to turn up my amp quite a bit (from the 9 o'clock to the 12 o'clock position). It does sound a bit different volume matched to the profile I made with your settings but at 0dB preamp, using a lower setting on my amp. Does it actually cause much distortion changing a few dB's on the EQ?
  
 I'm listening to all of Flashbulb's most "popular" tracks on spotify right now just to get a feel of his music. Enjoying it immensely in the process of course. Anything else you think pairs well with the HD800?


----------



## Solarium

Besides the Tung Sol 5998, what other tubes pairs well with the bottlehead crack and the HD800?


----------



## reddog

Sheldaze a really cool head-fi member has loaned me his HD800, so I could hear how it sounds through the Cavalli Liquid Gold, that I am demoing. I am in sonic heaven, the HD800 sounds phenomenal, so natural and transparent. Frank Zappa has never sounded better. I am using Tidal to MacBook Pro to Yggdrasil to the L Lau. With this type of setup, I could see myself getting the great HD800.. Hope everyone has a great day jamming out.


----------



## JamieMcC

solarium said:


> Besides the Tung Sol 5998, what other tubes pairs well with the bottlehead crack and the HD800?


 
http://the-key.enix.org/~krystal/review-tube-bottlehead.html


----------



## Solarium

jamiemcc said:


> http://the-key.enix.org/~krystal/review-tube-bottlehead.html


 
 That's an great source! Thanks
  
 I'm planning on getting a used TS5998. If I end up getting a used one, with say about 200-300 hours used on them, will that change the sound output much? What's the lifetime on these tubes?
  
 Also, do input tubes make much difference? They're not terribly expensive so I don't mind getting one new, but just curious.


----------



## Thenewguy007

reddog said:


> Sheldaze a really cool head-fi member has loaned me his HD800, so I could hear how it sounds through the Cavalli Liquid Gold, that I am demoing. I am in sonic heaven, the HD800 sounds phenomenal, so natural and transparent. Frank Zappa has never sounded better. I am using Tidal to MacBook Pro to Yggdrasil to the L Lau. With this type of setup, I could see myself getting the great HD800.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 How does it compare to your Ether C & HE-K on the Gold?


----------



## reddog

thenewguy007 said:


> How does it compare to your Ether C & HE-K on the Gold?



I just got done listening to the HE1K, driven by the Liquid Gold, and I have never heard the HE1K sound so good. The bass is deep, powerful, with lots of slam. Yet the bass is finely controlled and does not muddy up the sweet midds. The mids are sweet, lush and ever so natural sounding. The highs are spot on perfect, with the micro detail allowing the music to so detailed and natural sounding without any annoying sybilance. The soundstage on the HE1K is nice and large, with fantastic detail, which allows it be be three-dimensional holographic. Although I feel the soundstage on the HD800 is better. I will compare the ETHER and ETHER C ( driven by the gold) later on today.


----------



## JamieMcC

solarium said:


> That's an great source! Thanks
> 
> I'm planning on getting a used TS5998. If I end up getting a used one, with say about 200-300 hours used on them, will that change the sound output much? What's the lifetime on these tubes?
> 
> Also, do input tubes make much difference? They're not terribly expensive so I don't mind getting one new, but just curious.


 
  
 A 5998 should be good for a few thousand hours no problem. Rolling the input tube can make a difference you could head over to the bottlehead forum where there is a thread on rolling tubes for the Crack or the Crack page here on headfi for some suggestions that will work well for the type of music you listen to.


----------



## OctaviaeZ

Been a pretty devout T1 lover for the past year, but I just ordered the HD800 and LCD 2.2 to see which of the three I prefer  HD800 will probs take the cake due to its sound sig, but I'm curious to see!! 

Anyone have a Lyr here? I'm trying to figure out what tubes will help soothe the treble, I am going with orange globes so far


----------



## Thenewguy007

octaviaez said:


> Been a pretty devout T1 lover for the past year, but I just ordered the HD800 and LCD 2.2 to see which of the three I prefer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll be getting the T1 (again) tomorrow to compare with my HD800 as well.
  
 I'll post my impression when I do some A/B testing.


----------



## Casual864

Thinking of purchasing a HD800 pretty soon. Are they as sibilant as the HD700's?


----------



## DavidA

octaviaez said:


> Been a pretty devout T1 lover for the past year, but I just ordered the HD800 and LCD 2.2 to see which of the three I prefer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Got a Lyr2, try Bugle Boys, one of the warmer tubes that I have for the Lyr2.  I have all three headphones but use a BH Crack for the T-1 and HD-800, Lyr2 with Telefunken CCa's for the LCD-2


----------



## shultzee

casual864 said:


> Thinking of purchasing a HD800 pretty soon. Are they as sibilant as the HD700's?


 

 I don't find them sibilant.   People hear things differently and also source has a lot to do with it.


----------



## Casual864

I have a Schiit Modi 2/Magni 2 will that make the HD800's sibilant?


----------



## Thenewguy007

casual864 said:


> Thinking of purchasing a HD800 pretty soon. Are they as sibilant as the HD700's?


 
  
*NO!*
 They can be sibilant with bright upstream or pairings, but alone, they are just a bit bright.
 Not to the extremes as T1/HD700 that need warm amps/dacs.
  


casual864 said:


> I have a Schiit Modi 2/Magni 2 will that make the HD800's sibilant?


 
  
 Probably not, but that setup won't drive the HD800 very well.
 You are better off buying a Valhalla 2 to drive the HD800.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

thenewguy007 said:


> *NO!*
> They can be sibilant with bright upstream or pairings, but alone, they are just a bit bright.
> Not to the extremes as T1/HD700 that need warm amps/dacs.
> 
> ...


 

 So this is very comforting, I have one inbound and I've had the HD700 on my rig previously not sounding bright or anything. I was worried it may not match my chain but I think it will be fine now. Sweet


----------



## Casual864

thenewguy007 said:


> *NO!*
> They can be sibilant with bright upstream or pairings, but alone, they are just a bit bright.
> Not to the extremes as T1/HD700 that need warm amps/dacs.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It says that the Magni 2 can power a 300 ohm headphone on Schiits website.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

casual864 said:


> It says that the Magni 2 can power a 300 ohm headphone on Schiits website.




Yeah but the 300 Ohm spec is quite optimistic. It's more aching to 400 Ohm, and on the primary resonance (about 110Hz) even well over 600 Ohm

Look at Tyll's impedance measurements: 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sennheiser-hd-800-s-tweaked-and-delightfuland-french-diy-response-measurements#opZ5GBS9v1RztVHw.97


----------



## DavidA

casual864 said:


> It says that the Magni 2 can power a 300 ohm headphone on Schiits website.


 
 The Magni2 can power almost any headphone to ear bleeding levels but it can't* properly *drive most high impedance headphones since it was really designed for that.  And as @CoLdAsSauLt noted the HD-800 impedance changes over frequency so at some points its much higher than the 300 ohms that is stated.


----------



## Thenewguy007

casual864 said:


> It says that the Magni 2 can power a 300 ohm headphone on Schiits website.


 
  
 It will drive the volume, but it can't power the bass, dynamics or the soundstage the HD800 is capable of.
 At the very least, you need a amplifier around the $1,500 mark to power all that.


----------



## Currawong

thenewguy007 said:


> casual864 said:
> 
> 
> > It says that the Magni 2 can power a 300 ohm headphone on Schiits website.
> ...


 

 The Vali 2 does a surprisingly good job though, especially if you upgrade the stock tube. I'd argue $1500 is a bit high, given another run of the Liquid Carbon is coming out for half that.


----------



## Casual864

davida said:


> The Magni2 can power almost any headphone to ear bleeding levels but it can't* properly *drive most high impedance headphones since it was really designed for that.  And as @CoLdAsSauLt noted the HD-800 impedance changes over frequency so at some points its much higher than the 300 ohms that is stated.


 
 Gotcha we'll I guess I'll be selling this stack. Any recommendations for a beginner tube for the HD800's?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

casual864 said:


> Gotcha we'll I guess I'll be selling this stack. Any recommendations for a beginner tube for the HD800's?


 

 If you're a beginner tube roller there's the Project Ember 2 which is a hybrid class-D amp. Single tube with auto-bias makes it plug and play in tube rolling. I've heard the Bottlehead Crack amp and that is fantastic with the HD800, it actually sounds better with the HD800 without the speedball upgrade..


----------



## Solarium

davida said:


> Got a Lyr2, try Bugle Boys, one of the warmer tubes that I have for the Lyr2.  I have all three headphones but use a BH Crack for the T-1 and HD-800, Lyr2 with Telefunken CCa's for the LCD-2


 
 I just received my BH Crack w/ speedball. I'm using it now with the HD800 and T1, WOW what a change from SS amps and even my Lyr 2. But that's expected I suppose since it's OTL. It makes my HD800 almost HD650 sounding.
  
 Which tubes do you pair with the HD800 and the T1? I think the stock tubes are a bit TOO sweet/thick/bottom heavy for me, are the TS5998's more "neutral" and open?


----------



## JamieMcC

solarium said:


> I just received my BH Crack w/ speedball. I'm using it now with the HD800 and T1, WOW what a change from SS amps and even my Lyr 2. But that's expected I suppose since it's OTL. It makes my HD800 almost HD650 sounding.
> 
> Which tubes do you pair with the HD800 and the T1? I think the stock tubes are a bit TOO sweet/thick/bottom heavy for me, are the TS5998's more "neutral" and open?


 
  
 I would say swap out the 100uf electrolytic coupling caps for film ones ($60ish) change the stock volume pot for a Valab 23 stepped attenuator ($20) and add a Triad c-7x choke ($15)  and dip your toes into summit fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For tubes see link (note test set up at the bottom)
  
http://the-key.enix.org/~krystal/review-tube-bottlehead.html


----------



## Solarium

jamiemcc said:


> I would say swap out the 100uf electrolytic coupling caps for film ones ($60ish) change the stock volume pot for a Valab 23 stepped attenuator ($20) and add a Triad c-7x choke ($15)  and dip your toes into summit fi
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the suggestions, although I'm not all too familiar with how do I go about finding those upgrades.
  
 Do those upgrades (combined actually the cost of around a 5998) make more difference than just upgrading the tube?


----------



## murphythecat

solarium said:


> That -2 dB correction for 6k and 15k is perfect IMO even when I'm not using any mods and a brighter DAC/amp. Does the +8 dB at 10hz make any difference at all? I tried adjusting different values on 10hz but have not noticed any difference, making me thing HD800 doesn't get past anywhere near 20hz. Also, I'm assuming that when we are adjusting certain frequencies, like the 6.5k, that -2 applies to a certain extent to the nearby frequencies as well? Like the range from 5-8k will also get a dip as well? Also, why do you have a -9 dB setting for pre-amp? It just make everything quieter.


 
  
 I also suggest to maybe play with sonarworks. amazing what it does with the hd800.


----------



## Casual864

murphythecat said:


> I also suggest to maybe play with sonarworks. amazing what it does with the hd800.


 
 Which program do you use Sonarworks with since it's just a plugin?


----------



## murphythecat

casual864 said:


> Which program do you use Sonarworks with since it's just a plugin?


 
 In jriver. Foobar also accept vst plugins. I use it about 50% wet.


----------



## Taowolf51

solarium said:


> I'm listening to all of Flashbulb's most "popular" tracks on spotify right now just to get a feel of his music. Enjoying it immensely in the process of course. Anything else you think pairs well with the HD800?


 
  
 The best music to pair with the HD800 is music you like! But if you want I can share a couple people that make music that impresses me with the HD800's.
  
*Yosi Horikawa* (which I may have mentioned earlier) makes some incredibly lifelike surreal music made with recordings of random noises. His music is excellent when you're looking for a nice sonic massage. 
 Bubbles and Letter are excellent songs of his. His songs are also excellent at portraying space.
  
*Floex (Tomáš Dvořák)* makes some very interesting music with a very different sound compared to many other artists. He's from the Czech Republic and was the composer for games like the Samrost series and Machinarium. His work is as unique sonically as those games are visually (and that's a hell of a complement). Zorya, Machinarium OST, and Samrost 3 Pre-Remixes are great albums on Spotify. Samrost 3 just came out recently, but the OST hasn't made it to Spotify yet. But, you can listen to it on Bandcamp, it's pretty damn awesome:
 http://store.floex.cz/album/samorost-3-soundtrack
  
 Moving to something a little less out there, *The Punch Brothers* are a Bluegrass band that sound excellent on the HD800's. I think their album "The Phosphorescent Blues" is their best sonically. But, I also recommend the songs "New York City", "Kid A" (a really awesome cover of Radiohead's Kid A, but with bluegrass instruments, really interesting to listen to, and sounds awesome on the HD800's), and "Another New World" (a song that tells a very sad story, probably my favorite of all of their songs).
  
 If you really want to push that subbass, *Submotion Orchestra* is pretty awesome. They're kind of a mix of Jazz, soul, and electronic, and the ability to reproduce subbass is an absolute must when listening to these guys.
  
*Savant* makes music that's very inspired by old chiptune, but technically isn't chiptune. His music is very fast, tight, and snappy, which is obviously reproduced excellently by the HD800's. Each of his albums are fairly different and have a different musical theme, so sample around to get an idea of what his music is like. His latest stuff (everything in 2016) isn't that great IMO, but some people like it.
  
 Going back into the territory of sonic experiments, *Amon Tobin*'s album *ISAM* is pretty damn interesting sounding. Great detail and variety, and some nice texture. Turn off the lights, close your eyes, and listen to "Night Swim", it's creepy as all hell.
  
 Mombasa by *2 Cellos* is pretty sweet too.
  
 And back to something more grounded, *Ray LaMontagne*'s voice is like a nice rye whiskey. Smooth, but with a bit of spice to keep it interesting. I love this guy's voice.


----------



## FlySweep

Great recco's.. I'm a big fan of Floex, Phaeleh, Amon Tobin (love ISAM.. and his older stuff is classic Ninja Tune).. check out Flacco, too.


----------



## JamieMcC

solarium said:


> Thanks for the suggestions, although I'm not all too familiar with how do I go about finding those upgrades.
> 
> Do those upgrades (combined actually the cost of around a 5998) make more difference than just upgrading the tube?


 
  
 Ok well the bones of it are running a stock Crack with a  5998 or any of premium tubes will make a very noticeable difference. The upgrades (all of which can be found well documented on the bottlehead forum)  will allow you to experience much better performance from the same tube.
  
 The sound is going to be cleaner with a blacker back ground more dynamic and increased resolution. If you think the stock Crack is good after hearing a hot rodded one you will find it hard to go back listening with the stock version.  I added the mods to mine piecemeal over about a year. They cost a fraction of a fancy cable upgrade which can never deliver the same level of increased performance.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

It's known for orchestral and operatic prowess, but it will give you good results with most well-recorded music.


----------



## Solarium

jamiemcc said:


> Ok well the bones of it are running a stock Crack with a  5998 or any of premium tubes will make a very noticeable difference. The upgrades (all of which can be found well documented on the bottlehead forum)  will allow you to experience much better performance from the same tube.
> 
> The sound is going to be cleaner with a blacker back ground more dynamic and increased resolution. If you think the stock Crack is good after hearing a hot rodded one you will find it hard to go back listening with the stock version.  I added the mods to mine piecemeal over about a year. They cost a fraction of a fancy cable upgrade which can never deliver the same level of increased performance.


 
 Would already having a speedball upgrade make the 5998 and these mods having a less of an impact?


----------



## whirlwind

solarium said:


> jamiemcc said:
> 
> 
> > Ok well the bones of it are running a stock Crack with a  5998 or any of premium tubes will make a very noticeable difference. The upgrades (all of which can be found well documented on the bottlehead forum)  will allow you to experience much better performance from the same tube.
> ...


 
 If the upgrade is worth it.....I would go ahead and get get it , just for the reason that the 5998 tubes sound great with the HD800
  
 I run a pair a lot with the HD800, and they show some real authority and a wonderful sound.


----------



## sysfail

For those of you using Sonarworks with the HD800, do you use it in conjunction with mod(s) like the Anax mod? Or does it work best with a stock HD800?

I currently use it with the Anax mod which already sounds amazing, but I'm curious if it could be even better if I took out the Anax mod.


----------



## JaZZ

sysfail said:


> For those of you using Sonarworks with the HD800, do you use it in conjunction with mod(s) like the Anax mod? Or does it work best with a stock HD800?
> 
> I currently use it with the Anax mod which already sounds amazing, but I'm curious if it could be even better if I took out the Anax mod.


 
  
 I certainly wouldn't renounce the damping (unless you like increased reflections and signal smearing), but you could try my black-velvet version – which sounds clearly better than foam to my ears. It's the original, BTW, and I wonder why it hasn't been tested by Tyll, beside the adapted «Anax» mod.
  
 Equalizing can't replace damping! It's a different function. Equalizing works in the frequency domain (at least in the first place), whereas damping works in the time domain (in the first place). But you could try to adapt the SonarWorks curve to the damping.


----------



## OctaviaeZ

casual864 said:


> Gotcha we'll I guess I'll be selling this stack. Any recommendations for a beginner tube for the HD800's?


 
 I dig the Lyr, tames the treble and saves my ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sounds great imo


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Vali and Valhalla are both cheaper, and generally better regarded, if less flexible long term.


----------



## GodsInHisHeaven

jazz said:


> I certainly wouldn't renounce the damping (unless you like increased reflections and signal smearing), but you could try my black-velvet version – which sounds clearly better than foam to my ears. It's the original, BTW, and I wonder why it hasn't been tested by Tyll, beside the adapted «Anax» mod.
> 
> Equalizing can't replace damping! It's a different function. Equalizing works in the frequency domain (at least in the first place), whereas damping works in the time domain (in the first place). But you could try to adapt the SonarWorks curve to the damping.


 
 Have you tried the cork mod?


----------



## JamieMcC

solarium said:


> Would already having a speedball upgrade make the 5998 and these mods having a less of an impact?


 
  
 No if anything the impact is greater the better performance of the premium tubes is not restricted allowing them to shine. Your T1  will get a kiss of life and come alive the HD800 will be less sibilant  both will have increased resolution better accuracy in sound staging and more soulful and engaging midrange. 
  
 Try some image searches on  google "Bottlehead Crack film capacitors" Bottlehead Crack stepped attenuator" and check out some of the builds and feed back from the builders. The mods described are more generally known as the Crack upgrade path. Its a well worn path and there are lots of documented posts on these modifications on the Bottlehead Forum.
  
 The thing is enjoy your Crack as it is and if you get the urge to try any mods you will find the info and BH forum members very helpful its a really cool community.


----------



## JaZZ

godsinhisheaven said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > I certainly wouldn't renounce the damping (unless you like increased reflections and signal smearing), but you could try my black-velvet version – which sounds clearly better than foam to my ears. It's the original, BTW, and I wonder why it hasn't been tested by Tyll, beside the adapted «Anax» mod.
> ...


 
  
 No. But cork doesn't seem promising to me. I tried it during my speaker-builder area (for damping purposes), but it's effectively too hard a material and too closed to absorb enough high frequencies. In turn foam is too lightweight and open to have enough acoustic resistance for the required thinness (yes, thinness is an important criterion!) or too hard (= reflective) in the other case. Felt has too hard (= reflective) fibres and sounds bad in my experience. Velours is an acceptable alternative to velvet, but harder and in most cases thinner, thus still inferior. Velvet is the best material I know; it combines heavyweight (tightness) with an open structure and very soft fibres. The ideal material for a damping layer that shouldn't exceed a thickness of ~2 mm in the most critical area around the driver and ~4 mm at the stays (I tried 3 layers = 6 mm there, but that hasn't stood the test).


----------



## DavidA

@JaZZ, Do you think a micro fiber cloth would work since it soft like velvet and depending on what you buy can be quite thin?


----------



## sysfail

jazz said:


> I certainly wouldn't renounce the damping (unless you like increased reflections and signal smearing), but you could try my black-velvet version – which sounds clearly better than foam to my ears. It's the original, BTW, and I wonder why it hasn't been tested by Tyll, beside the adapted «Anax» mod.
> 
> Equalizing can't replace damping! It's a different function. Equalizing works in the frequency domain (at least in the first place), whereas damping works in the time domain (in the first place). But you could try to adapt the SonarWorks curve to the damping.


 
  
 Thanks, interesting mod, might try it out.
  
 Anyone else have experience with Sonarworks + HD800 with and without mod(s)?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Does anyone else find the HD800 too big to be pleasant for solo piano music? I try to like them, but they are really much more of a cathedral than a chamber—the piano sounds distant, there seems to be too much space for this single instrument, in which the question of soundstage is a bit silly.


----------



## vc1187

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Does anyone else find the HD800 too big to be pleasant for solo piano music? I try to like them, but they are really much more of a cathedral than a chamber—the piano sounds distant, there seems to be too much space for this single instrument, in which the question of soundstage is a bit silly.


 
 Got a particular track in mind?  Perhaps if we have the track to compare against, we can eliminate some variables.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Does anyone else find the HD800 too big to be pleasant for solo piano music? I try to like them, but they are really much more of a cathedral than a chamber—the piano sounds distant, there seems to be too much space for this single instrument, in which the question of soundstage is a bit silly.



Yeah this could just as well be excessive use of reverb as overcompensation when mixing on lesser headphones... or maybe the piano just was standing in too big a hall in reality, losing some intimacy.


----------



## Sorrodje

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Does anyone else find the HD800 too big to be pleasant for solo piano music? I try to like them, but they are really much more of a cathedral than a chamber—the piano sounds distant, there seems to be too much space for this single instrument, in which the question of soundstage is a bit silly.


 
  
  
 Depends on how the Piano is recorded and where mics are positionned and how the sound engineer worked.


----------



## blacknile

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Does anyone else find the HD800 too big to be pleasant for solo piano music? I try to like them, but they are really much more of a cathedral than a chamber—the piano sounds distant, there seems to be too much space for this single instrument, in which the question of soundstage is a bit silly.


 
  
 I find that whenever that happens I tend to dislike the same recording on my speaker setup, too. So, as others have suggested, I chalk it down to poor recording technique.
  
 Incidentally, I'm listening to Backhaus' Beethoven sonatas on Decca Original master - beautiful stereo recordings from the mid '60s with compact soundstage, sounding absolutely brilliant on the HD800.


----------



## johnjen

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Does anyone else find the HD800 too big to be pleasant for solo piano music? I try to like them, but they are really much more of a cathedral than a chamber—the piano sounds distant, there seems to be too much space for this single instrument, in which the question of soundstage is a bit silly.


 
 I have found that on a system with suitable resolution, acoustic 'affects' such as image size and placement, room acoustics etc. are due to the recording.
  
 IOW if the acoustic presentation is 'bigger than life' look to the recording as the primary source for this.
 But it also means your system has enough resolution to let you hear all of this in the first place.
  
 JJ


----------



## Brent Pittman

Will the bravo ocean work with these


----------



## DavidA

brent pittman said:


> Will the bravo ocean work with these


 
 It will work but you will not be getting what the HD800 is capable of.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

They drove the hd650 decently but David's right, it'll carry you til you get a proper amp but really with the hd800 you'll want something more resolving just because of the headphones capability. 





brent pittman said:


> Will the bravo ocean work with these







davida said:


> It will work but you will not be getting what the HD800 is capable of.


----------



## raybone0566

brent pittman said:


> Will the bravo ocean work with these


Vahalla2 is pretty good with hd800. Very affordable at $349.00. Actually saw one in the for sale thread for 290.00


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Some say the VALI2 can do it for $150 if you're in a pinch and need an amp but if not save up for a property one. 

Another option is the matrix old school amp as well as the Project Polaris.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

If anyone is looking for a SS amp with very tube like sound for their HD800 or Ethers you need to check out Airist Audio's Heron 5 Amp. Just submitted a review on Headphone Guru, it's not up yet, so I Don't want to "spill the beans", but it's a positive review.


----------



## westermac

Hey all, I recently picked up a Woo WA6 (sounds fantastic with my HD600!) and have a HD800 coming as well. Has anyone heard this pairing, and if so what tubes are good with the HD800? 

It came with the stock tubes, as well as a Sophia Princess 274B, extra RCA 6DE7's and a pair of 7N7.

I also have a Corda Classic which I will be comparing it to.

Thanks


----------



## icebear

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Does anyone else find the HD800 too big to be pleasant for solo piano music? I try to like them, but they are really much more of a cathedral than a chamber—the piano sounds distant, there seems to be too much space for this single instrument, in which the question of soundstage is a bit silly.


 


sorrodje said:


> Depends on how the Piano is recorded and where mics are positionned and how the sound engineer worked.


 
 +1, the HD800 will let your hear what the engineer indented. If he didn't mess it up with too much processing, you will hear it exactly how it was recorded. When it sounds distant then it has been recorded with quite a bit of distance between the mics and the piano or when it sound like you stick you head into the piano then the mics had been placed directly over the strings. The HD800 will not make this sound the way it sounds, it's in the recording.


----------



## Sorrodje

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan08/articles/pianorecording_0108.htm


----------



## guido

Is the SuperDupont Resonator mod discussed anywhere?
  
 I have searched the forum but only found the Ana mod...


----------



## raybone0566

guido said:


> Is the SuperDupont Resonator mod discussed anywhere?
> 
> I have searched the forum but only found the Ana mod...


Yes, I'm very interested to see how this is answered here. Funny how you can't mention them here, but you can talk of this site there.


----------



## guido

this is getting weird...


----------



## lukeap69

guido said:


> this is getting weird...




Look here https://youtu.be/d6GeIpU7xoI


----------



## potkettleblack

Hello all

I need some advice

I'm having some serious fit issues with my 800. I have tried multiple settings and woollen headband covers but I can't stop the hotspot happening at the top of my head.

I've read about this with a handful of users but have never seen a solution.

Any tips? Mods that can be bought etc? I really don't want to give these up but I'm afraid I'm running out of options.


----------



## DavidA

potkettleblack said:


> Hello all
> 
> I need some advice
> 
> ...


 
 If you can DIY, you could build a padding using soft foam padding wrapped with velour and glue it on.  Did something similar for my HE-400 since they were so heavy, used leather instead of velour for a better matching finish:


----------



## thomascrown

potkettleblack said:


> Hello all
> 
> I need some advice
> 
> ...


 
 I used one of those around my lcd xc headband http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005PK1CYI and it helped a lot.


----------



## sysfail

thomascrown said:


> I used one of those around my lcd xc headband http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005PK1CYI and it helped a lot.


 
  
 Would those fit the HD800 headband perfectly or close?


----------



## thomascrown

sysfail said:


> Would those fit the HD800 headband perfectly or close?




I never felt the need to put it on my hd800 but I can post a picture later


----------



## sysfail

thomascrown said:


> I never felt the need to put it on my hd800 but I can post a picture later


 
  
 It doesn't happen often, but if I wear it for a long period of time without adjusting it, I start to feel pressure at the tip of my head.
  
 A picture would be great, thanks!


----------



## thomascrown

sysfail said:


> It doesn't happen often, but if I wear it for a long period of time without adjusting it, I start to feel pressure at the tip of my head.
> 
> A picture would be great, thanks!



OK here a really bad pic of the thing. It is rather flat but on the xc it really helps.


----------



## sysfail

thomascrown said:


> OK here a really bad pic of the thing. It is rather flat but on the xc it really helps.




Thanks! It actually looks like it fits pretty decently. How comfortable is it?


----------



## Xeculus

Has anyone tried pairing the HD800 with a Magni/Modi stack? Does it make the 800 too bright?


----------



## DavidA

xeculus said:


> Has anyone tried pairing the HD800 with a Magni/Modi stack? Does it make the 800 too bright?


 
 IMO Yes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, but YMMV.  Original M/M stack was bright to me to start.


----------



## icebear

sorrodje said:


> http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan08/articles/pianorecording_0108.htm


 

 Holy crap, this is interesting!
 I didn't have the nerve to go all the (40?) examples but what a difference in sound just by either choosing a different position for the mic or a different type. There are clear differences and this was just by listening to the mp3 examples streaming. This puts all the data format discussions or DAC chips vs R2R/NOS into a proper perspective. Not that it surprises me but it should cool down some folks who put a little too much importance on things that are pretty insignificant in comparison to how the sound engineer at time of recording is shaping the sound.
 Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Xeculus

davida said:


> IMO Yes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Agree. I swapped for the M2U/M2U as soon as they came out
  
 Any recommendations for "cheaper" amp+dacs that work well for the 800?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

xeculus said:


> Agree. I swapped for the M2U/M2U as soon as they came out
> 
> Any recommendations for "cheaper" amp+dacs that work well for the 800?


 

 You may want to try something like a Wolfson based Audio-GD Dac/Amp if you can find one (NFB12, NFB15).


----------



## DavidA

xeculus said:


> Agree. I swapped for the M2U/M2U as soon as they came out
> 
> Any recommendations for "cheaper" amp+dacs that work well for the 800?


 
 I like the BH Crack as the "cheaper" amp, granted its still will be about $600 total after you add tubes and some upgraded caps.
  
 I was using Bifrost Uber and to me it was better than the MB version in some ways.  Most of the time I use a UD-301 now.


----------



## thomascrown

sysfail said:


> Thanks! It actually looks like it fits pretty decently. How comfortable is it?


 
 I haven't tried as I never felt the need to use it on the hd800, more the senns are my "backup" headphones I mostly use the lcd3f, I'll give it a try though


----------



## Sorrodje

icebear said:


> Holy crap, this is interesting!
> I didn't have the nerve to go all the (40?) examples but what a difference in sound just by either choosing a different position for the mic or a different type. There are clear differences and this was just by listening to the mp3 examples streaming. This puts all the data format discussions or DAC chips vs R2R/NOS into a proper perspective. Not that it surprises me but it should cool down some folks who put a little too much importance on things that are pretty insignificant in comparison to how the sound engineer at time of recording is shaping the sound.
> Thanks for sharing.


 
  
 Yup. I looked for some sources when I understood that what I was hearing with the HD800 was hat the mic recorded. In fact, we're the mic . so when we sometimes hear the piano as unnaturally huge with the HD800, it was actually accurate because it's how the mis "hear" the Piano. 
  
 Listening to solo Piano is super interesting and helps to understand how the presenation is affected by how the instrument is recorded. Should be mandatory but I never thought to that when I began in the Hobby. 
  
 Once understood this, everything becomes clear as water. Think to close mic'd voice . The mic is like what ... 20cm from the mouth of the Singer ? . How could be the result sound "natural" through a good transducer ?  If the sound engineer purposedly work on raw takes to make them sound natural and more naturally positionned in the artificially created soundstage , it"s fine with the HD800.  but if this work is not done ... you know the result. 
  
 Most modern music is not recorded naturally in Live conditions so what we finally hear depends more on the work of the sound engineer than everything else. That's why ( and no it's not snobbery. I love and listen a lot of badly recorded and mastered music ) I think we should bother about good accurate gear only for acoustic and live recorded music. Otherwise it does not make much sense.  my 2 cents .  That does not mean good transducers are not useful for badly recorded/mastered music. I just bought a SR007mkII and I love it for Pop/Rock and some Electronic Music I love.  But if an accurate and revealing headphone sounds bad with crap.. we shouldn't blame the messenger... imo.
  
 The more I learn in this Hobby the more I'm convinced of the order of what matters for the final listening enjoyment: 
  
 mood/current psychologic state of the listener>>Recording = transducer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amplifier>>>>>>DAC >> Everything else


----------



## DavidA

@Sorrodje, your post above makes sense to me, I only use my HD-800, T1 and SR-009 with well recorded/mastered classical.  The T1 is the most flexible as to genres that I would listen to on it, the SR-009 the least flexible with the HD-800 closer to the T1.


----------



## icebear

sorrodje said:


> ... Once understood this, everything becomes clear as water. Think to close mic'd voice . The mic is like what ... *20cm from the mouth of the Singer* ? . How could be the result sound "natural" through a good transducer ?  *[1]*
> 
> .... I think we should bother about good accurate gear only* for acoustic and live recorded music*. Otherwise it does not make much sense.  my 2 cents .* [2] * ...
> 
> ...


 
  
 [1] Sat. night I was in a Jazz club in Manhatten and saw Karrin Allyson. A live setting has of course different requirements from a studio setting but for what it's worth ... the black foam pieces on the vocal mics were red from her lip stick
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 [2] that's exactely what I prefer listenting to, classic and Jazz, mostly acoustic


----------



## sheldaze

I agree with the first part - mood/current psychological state of the listener >> the other stuff.
  
 But I'm going to waay disagree on the middle part. I am getting to a point where recording == transducer == amplifier == DAC. If any one of these four is broken, I am unhappy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am done at this point searching for transducer and DAC options.
 I am starting to hone in on the better recordings, and am still seeking a couple of amplifier options.


----------



## defbear

sheldaze said:


> I agree with the first part - mood/current psychological state of the listener >> the other stuff.
> 
> But I'm going to waay disagree on the middle part. I am getting to a point where recording == transducer == amplifier == DAC. If any one of these four is broken, I am unhappy
> 
> ...


 
 'Mood is a thing of Cattle and Loveplay' and listening to music on your audio system. Sometimes I think I can't listen to something twice and come up with the same result. 
 And BTW how do you like your Mojo with the Microzolt2? Especially with the new hd800s's


----------



## sheldaze

defbear said:


> 'Mood is a thing of Cattle and Loveplay' and listening to music on your audio system. Sometimes I think I can't listen to something twice and come up with the same result.
> And BTW how do you like your Mojo with the Microzolt2? Especially with the new hd800s's


 
 I'll just say, you best be ready to spend hours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The music just keeps coming, and so many gifts are there for the taking. I was shocked at how much I loved Mojo into MicroZOTL2. That's why I quoted both headphones - forgetting what was on my head and just digging the music. You know though, I will have to take a close listen to the Musette. It was what I first heard the MicroZOTL2 played from, what the company Urban HiFi uses to demonstrate the amp.


----------



## sysfail

thomascrown said:


> I haven't tried as I never felt the need to use it on the hd800, more the senns are my "backup" headphones I mostly use the lcd3f, I'll give it a try though


 
  
 Thanks, if it actually feels comfortable then I just might give it a try myself!


----------



## murphythecat

sorrodje said:


> The more I learn in this Hobby the more I'm convinced of the order of what matters for the final listening enjoyment:
> 
> mood/current psychologic state of the listener>>Recording = transducer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amplifier>>>>>>DAC >> Everything else


 
 Im surprised by your finding that amps make more difference then DAC.
 ive never heard a amp change so drastically the sound like DAC do.


----------



## Arniesb

murphythecat said:


> Im surprised by your finding that amps make more difference then DAC.
> ive never heard a amp change so drastically the sound like DAC do.


My A20 sound drastically different from O2 amp. With quick listen, its hard to see all the differences.


----------



## Peti

I used to have the HD800 twice before. I just had this love-hate relationship all the time and I ended up selling them. Tried to tame the highs (yep, for me those highs were disturbing) with my O2/ODAC to not avail.
  
 Now I have a Liquid Carbon and I thought I'd give a last try to the Classic HD800 as I have heard pretty nice feedbacks from that combo. And lo and behold, it works indeed. The unnatural and uncomfortable highs are gone. I have purchased an HD800 w/o cables so I could try my brand new Furutech cable. But I have thrown the box away before the headphones arrived and forgot to check which side is left and right...or there's no such a thing with them? You can attach either side to the headphones? Lame question, I know... 
  
 The 'phones sound just fine but just to be on the safe side, anyone could enlighten me on this?
  
 Thanks


----------



## bearFNF

peti said:


> I used to have the HD800 twice before. I just had this love-hate relationship all the time and I ended up selling them. Tried to tame the highs (yep, for me those highs were disturbing) with my O2/ODAC to not avail.
> 
> Now I have a Liquid Carbon and I thought I'd give a last try to the Classic HD800 as I have heard pretty nice feedbacks from that combo. And lo and behold, it works indeed. The unnatural and uncomfortable highs are gone. I have purchased an HD800 w/o cables so I could try my brand new Furutech cable. But I have thrown the box away before the headphones arrived and forgot to check which side is left and right...or there's no such a thing with them? You can attach either side to the headphones? Lame question, I know...
> 
> ...


 
 There is a need to get the left right correct. Did you make the cable yourself? there should be a mark or a letter on the cable I would think. If you have a source with balance adjust you could use that in a pinch to check it. or a test track for left right channels. try this link http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_stereo.php


----------



## Peti

bearfnf said:


> There is a need to get the left right correct. Did you make the cable yourself? there should be a mark or a letter on the cable I would think. If you have a source with balance adjust you could use that in a pinch to check it. or a test track for left right channels. try this link http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_stereo.php


 

 I swear to God I can't see no L or R sign but there is a red-black distinction as the picture shows.
  
 http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B00PDQ8KSA/ref=twister_B00PDQ8KMG?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
  
 But thanks for the link. Turns out I got it wrong the first time!


----------



## bearFNF

peti said:


> I swear to God I can't see no L or R sign but there is a red-black distinction as the picture shows.
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B00PDQ8KSA/ref=twister_B00PDQ8KMG?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> But thanks for the link. Turns out I got it wrong the first time!


 

 Yep, no problem, red would be right. If they followed standard convention, that is.


----------



## rgs9200m

Red always means the right channel.


----------



## Peti

Loser here, I didn't know until now!


----------



## rgs9200m

Nah, don't be so hard on yourself. Good luck!


----------



## bearFNF

rgs9200m said:


> Red always means the right channel.


 

 I'd be carfeul saying always...not everyone follows that convention.


----------



## Peti

Seriously, this Liquid Carbon - HD800 combo is just breath-taking. I know I sound like a Cavalli sales person but I have no affiliation to them, really. Now I got the channels right, It's time to appreciate these great headphones like never before.
  
 WIN10 - JRiver - ODAC - Liquid Carbon - HD800. There's still room to improve here but now I'm just reclining in my chair with a huge smile on my face.


----------



## rgs9200m

The only strange thing I've seen is black and white, where black, which means left, in this case was right. But I have never seen red meaning anything but right after dealing with what feels like a million connections. If anyone has seen otherwise, I'd be curious and surprised.


----------



## bearFNF

rgs9200m said:


> The only strange thing I've seen black and white, where black, which means left, in this case was right. But I have never seen red meaning anything but right after dealing with what feels like a million connections. If anyone has seen otherwise, I'd be curious and surprised.


 

 The first custom IEM's I had used orange and blue text and dots for the earpieces and cables.  They were trying to be different... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 You know the orange might have been a bad try at red now that I think about it. but it was definitely blue on the other one.
 I am also an ex-Navy guy so red is left or port side and green is right or starboard side, so all my CIEMs have red and green so I now which ear they go in...


----------



## shultzee

Red is right since my first system in 1974.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Have you considered the Gungnir Multibit? Jason says it's more euphonic than the Yggy.


----------



## lukeap69

You can test left and right with this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8ODm-F9-IM
 (by listening of course.)


----------



## Xeculus

Has anyone tried both the Woo Audio WA7 or Valhalla 2 with the 800? Trying to figure out some good amp options for <$1k... not sure what I'm missing out on with my current M2/M2 stack, or any tube compared to SS for that matter


----------



## sheldaze

xeculus said:


> Has anyone tried both the Woo Audio WA7 or Valhalla 2 with the 800? Trying to figure out some good amp options for <$1k... not sure what I'm missing out on with my current M2/M2 stack, or any tube compared to SS for that matter


 
 Valhalla 2 is a much better value.
  
 I just recently purchased WA7 - I like it. But I find it, thus far, to be more an overall tube amplifier. I'm using HD800S on it, not HD800. I agree with some of the posts above, finding something like a Liquid Carbon (sold mine, but did listen for long periods of time - also joined the second run) to sound quite euphoric on HD800.


----------



## raybone0566

xeculus said:


> Has anyone tried both the Woo Audio WA7 or Valhalla 2 with the 800? Trying to figure out some good amp options for <$1k... not sure what I'm missing out on with my current M2/M2 stack, or any tube compared to SS for that matter


Torpedo iii is a good choice but fits diy. You can have one built with cinemags for roughly 1.1k. There's a thread here for it or go to bezoar audio. I had the vahalla2 combo, I felt it was to lean with the 800 for my tastes. YMMV


----------



## pctazhp

xeculus said:


> Has anyone tried both the Woo Audio WA7 or Valhalla 2 with the 800? Trying to figure out some good amp options for <$1k... not sure what I'm missing out on with my current M2/M2 stack, or any tube compared to SS for that matter


 
 I can't speak to the Woo as I have never heard it, I have the HD800S and not the Classic. I can tell you that in my experience the Feliks Audio Elise is in a totally different class than the Valhalla 2. I did a detailed comparison between the two amps at http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/8790#post_12438273, post #8804. That post was before I got my HD800S, but comparing the two amps with the S has not changed the impressions I posted there. The Elise with good non-stock tubes will keep you under $1000.
  
 There is one participant on that thread who owns an LC, but reports he far prefers the Elise.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I'll second on the Ellise, great amp, Schitt Amps short of the Rag do not match well with the HD800. A sleeper that is now under $1K is the Airist Audio Herron 5, it was a big hit at the Nashville Meet with HD800/S, and Ether/C.


----------



## GodsInHisHeaven

Can anyone compare the HD 800 bass with the bass of the LCD 2 or HE 560?
  
 I will probably get my first HD 800 next Saturday, but I am a little worried that the HD 800 might be lacking in t he bass department.
  
 By the way, I already have the anax 1 and 2 mod prepared to fight the 6KHz spike (if it troubles me) and have no problem using my EQ to  thump up the bass (also upping the bass 3 dB doing that on my HE 560).


----------



## reddog

godsinhisheaven said:


> Can anyone compare the HD 800 bass with the bass of the LCD 2 or HE 560?
> 
> I will probably get my first HD 800 next Saturday, but I am a little worried that the HD 800 might be lacking in t he bass department.
> 
> By the way, I already have the anax 1 and 2 mod prepared to fight the 6KHz spike (if it troubles me) and have no problem using my EQ to  thump up the bass (also upping the bass 3 dB doing that on my HE 560).



I though the pair of HD 800's, I demonstrated for a week had great bass. I was so impressed with the sound that I am getting a Liquid Gold and a used pair of HD 800's..


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

wildcatsare1 said:


> I'll second on the Ellise, great amp, Schitt Amps short of the Rag do not match well with the HD800. A sleeper that is now under $1K is the Airist Audio Herron 5, it was a big hit at the Nashville Meet with HD800/S, and Ether/C.


 

 The Mjolnir 2 sounds great to me, both with LISST and stock tubes. See my review.


----------



## Xeculus

sheldaze said:


> Valhalla 2 is a much better value.
> 
> I just recently purchased WA7 - I like it. But I find it, thus far, to be more an overall tube amplifier. I'm using HD800S on it, not HD800. I agree with some of the posts above, finding something like a Liquid Carbon (sold mine, but did listen for long periods of time - also joined the second run) to sound quite euphoric on HD800.


 
  
 Would you say the Liquid Carbon is a better match for the classic 800 than the new gen 2 WA7?
  
 The possibility of not having to mess with tube amps is pretty appealing, especially considering the better tube amps command much higher prices


----------



## porridgecup

godsinhisheaven said:


> Can anyone compare the HD 800 bass with the bass of the LCD 2 or HE 560?
> 
> I will probably get my first HD 800 next Saturday, but I am a little worried that the HD 800 might be lacking in t he bass department.
> 
> By the way, I already have the anax 1 and 2 mod prepared to fight the 6KHz spike (if it troubles me) and have no problem using my EQ to  thump up the bass (also upping the bass 3 dB doing that on my HE 560).


 
  
 I own the LCD 2 (pre-Fazor) and HD 800. Both running through a Bryston BHA-1 and Schiit Gungnir.
  
 HD 800's bass feels just as good as the LCD 2's in terms of detail and extension. Probably a little bit more detail. However, due to the brighter nature of the headphones, you'll probably have to EQ them if you want to hear anything like the bass _quantity_ of the LCD 2. Depending on your head shape and particular sensitivities, the HD 800's higher peaks may drown out the low end. At least, they did for me.
  
 A small Q low boost, small Q high cut, and big Q notch around 6.5k were necessary to make them listenable to me, personally. But once I did that, they do sound very good indeed. Including for bass-heavy electronic music.


----------



## JamieMcC

By chance is anyone using Primare DAC 30 with their hd800 I'm interested in getting some user insight on it?


----------



## sheldaze

xeculus said:


> Would you say the Liquid Carbon is a better match for the classic 800 than the new gen 2 WA7?
> 
> The possibility of not having to mess with tube amps is pretty appealing, especially considering the better tube amps command much higher prices


 
 I'm not supposed to make comments on things I haven't heard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 The WA7 I own is the original - I plan to get the DAC and AMP upgrades to the newest WA7, when those become available to owners of the previous model.
  
 I will make a guess though - unless there is a significant update, Liquid Carbon will still likely be a better match for the classic 800.


----------



## Xeculus

sheldaze said:


> I'm not supposed to make comments on things I haven't heard
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Really? I thought a tube amp would better help smooth out the classic 800's treble peak over a solid state amp


----------



## DavidA

xeculus said:


> Really? I thought a tube amp would better help smooth out the classic 800's treble peak over a solid state amp


 
 There are some warm sounding SS amps, H10 and Polaris are 2 of the affordable ones that I know of, LAu and MHA-100 would be more pricy options.  Or even HDVD-800


----------



## nepherte

jamiemcc said:


> By chance is anyone using Primare DAC 30 with their hd800 I'm interested in getting some user insight on it?


 
  
 I used to own a Primare NP-30 (close to the DAC-30) and used it with my HD800. What in particular do you want to know?


----------



## Shetzu

wildcatsare1 said:


> I'll second on the Ellise, great amp, Schitt Amps short of the Rag do not match well with the HD800. A sleeper that is now under $1K is the Airist Audio Herron 5, it was a big hit at the Nashville Meet with HD800/S, and Ether/C.


 
 I was suggested Elise for my HD 800 by a friend. Could you tell me your impressions of Elise  and its compatibility with Hd 800. Tks.


----------



## shultzee

wildcatsare1 said:


> I'll second on the Ellise, great amp, Schitt Amps short of the Rag do not match well with the HD800. A sleeper that is now under $1K is the Airist Audio Herron 5, it was a big hit at the Nashville Meet with HD800/S, and Ether/C.


 

 Disagree.  Schitt MJ 2 did a awesome job with the HD800 for me with good tubes.


----------



## MWSVette

shultzee said:


> Disagree.  Schitt MJ 2 did a awesome job with the HD800 for me with good tubes.


 
  
 I use my Schiit Lyr as amp for the HD800's and with a warmer tube they are great...


----------



## murphythecat

I also consider the hd800 unlistenable without EQ.
 With sonarworks EQ, its amazing.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

shultzee said:


> Disagree.  Schitt MJ 2 did a awesome job with the HD800 for me with good tubes.




I guess we will have to agree to disagree, I found the MJ 2 with Amprex, to be rolled off and boring, withTelefunken to be too hot. Audio is is subjective, same finding with the Ether. I loved it with my LCD-3f though.


----------



## sheldaze

xeculus said:


> Really? I thought a tube amp would better help smooth out the classic 800's treble peak over a solid state amp


 
 I agree the WA7 sounds like a tube. But there are tube amplifiers that are warm and tube amplifiers that are balanced. I think Woo Audio was aiming at the balanced side with their WA7.
  
 Same is true  - some warm and some balanced - for solid state amplifiers, as others have posted examples of the warmer options. Definitely do not turn your back on solid state when seeking a warmish sound. But too, implementation is everything. The Cavalli implementation has been well-respected on Head-Fi for some time. I've not heard the Gold, but the Carbon was quite good with the HD800. Perhaps the Black Widow from Eddie Current will be similarly good? And there are a few others people here have mentioned.


----------



## MWSVette

wildcatsare1 said:


> I guess we will have to agree to disagree, I found the MJ 2 with Amprex, to be rolled off and boring, withTelefunken to be too hot. Audio is is subjective, same finding with the Ether. I loved it with my LCD-3f though.


 
  
  
 That is why I have multiple sets of tubes.  I like different tubes with different cans...
  
 The Lyr's sound signature is greatly effected by the choice of tubes.  I have had a chance to audition the MJ2 but not gotten to do any tube rolling with one.  If tubes do change the sound signature the same way they do in the Lyr you may not have found the right tubes yet.
  
 There is a place between "rolled off and boring" and "too hot".
  
 But you are right audio is very subjective.  
  
 Would love to try an Ether and LCD 3...


----------



## JamieMcC

nepherte said:


> I used to own a Primare NP-30 (close to the DAC-30) and used it with my HD800. What in particular do you want to know?


 
  
 Hi thanks I was looking at a trade in on one and was wondering if anyone had any experience with it and how it compared to other products in its category. I essentially have a opportunity to pick one up that is only a couple of months old at half retail but at its price level there are some tasty options about. My current dac is a Leema Accoustics Elements dac which so far has blown away everything else I have tried but you know what this hobby is like.


----------



## holyindian

Last i checked this thread a few months back, and lot of people were recommending the Schiit Ragnarok amp for the HD800
 Whats the new consensus right now? I am ready to get a new amp.
  
 I checked Axpona this year, and Cavali audio had a booth, they are so damn expensive, and i thought the amp on there were pretty much mediocre sounding than even WA2


----------



## shultzee

wildcatsare1 said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > Disagree.  Schitt MJ 2 did a awesome job with the HD800 for me with good tubes.
> ...


 

 I had the 75 Reflektors  and it was amazing.   However they are hard to get.


----------



## Xeculus

sheldaze said:


> I agree the WA7 sounds like a tube. But there are tube amplifiers that are warm and tube amplifiers that are balanced. I think Woo Audio was aiming at the balanced side with their WA7.
> 
> Same is true  - some warm and some balanced - for solid state amplifiers, as others have posted examples of the warmer options. Definitely do not turn your back on solid state when seeking a warmish sound. But too, implementation is everything. The Cavalli implementation has been well-respected on Head-Fi for some time. I've not heard the Gold, but the Carbon was quite good with the HD800. Perhaps the Black Widow from Eddie Current will be similarly good? And there are a few others people here have mentioned.


 
  
 Thanks for the info, very helpful  
  
 Definitely taking a look at both the LC and Black Widow. I have to admit, the LC is looking better and better day by day...


----------



## bearFNF

Don't forget the deadline to order the liquid carbon is May 5th. That's when they're going to stop taking orders and start production.


----------



## paulchiu

bearfnf said:


> Don't forget the deadline to order the liquid carbon is May 5th. That's when they're going to stop taking orders and start production.


 
  
 Please post a link.
 Thank you
  
 Paul


----------



## sheldaze

paulchiu said:


> Please post a link.
> Thank you
> 
> Paul


 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/803956/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-final-production-run
http://www.cavalliaudio.com/products/liquid-carbon
  
 Details regarding the final production run are in the thread (first link) and at the tail of the information in the second link.


----------



## Xeculus

sheldaze said:


> Same is true  - some warm and some balanced - for solid state amplifiers, as others have posted examples of the warmer options. Definitely do not turn your back on solid state when seeking a warmish sound. But too, implementation is everything. The Cavalli implementation has been well-respected on Head-Fi for some time. I've not heard the Gold, but the Carbon was quite good with the HD800.


 
  
 Have you tried the Valhalla 2, sheldaze? What did you think about it compared to a LC for the 800?


----------



## bearFNF

paulchiu said:


> Please post a link.
> Thank you
> 
> Paul




@sheldaze posted the links.
Here's the text from the Carbon page.

"Please note that we are scheduled to stop taking orders for this final run of Liquid Carbons on May 5th, 2016. You will have until 11:59p (Central Time) on that date to place your order. After that date, your order will become non-refundable, as we will begin production on your Liquid Carbon, which should take approximately 14-16 weeks to complete."


----------



## sheldaze

xeculus said:


> Have you tried the Valhalla 2, sheldaze? What did you think about it compared to a LC for the 800?


 
 Absolutely loved the Valhalla 2. It creates a very large soundstage, clean, crystal clear sound.
  
 I did like the DNA Sonett a small bit better, so sold the Valhalla 2. And I liked the MicroZOTL2 a small bit better than that (and it works for both planar and dynamic driver headphones). So that's where I am currently.
  
 But there is no question the Valhalla 2 is great for the Sennheiser headphones. If I could have the Cavalli house sound (hard to describe - just makes things sound a little more cozy), but the crystal clear clarity of the Valhalla 2, that would be very nice indeed. The Valhalla 2 will not hide the flaws. The Carbon, to my ears, hid a few.


----------



## Xeculus

sheldaze said:


> Absolutely loved the Valhalla 2. It creates a very large soundstage, clean, crystal clear sound.
> 
> I did like the DNA Sonett a small bit better, so sold the Valhalla 2. And I liked the MicroZOTL2 a small bit better than that (and it works for both planar and dynamic driver headphones). So that's where I am currently.
> 
> But there is no question the Valhalla 2 is great for the Sennheiser headphones. If I could have the Cavalli house sound (hard to describe - just makes things sound a little more cozy), but the crystal clear clarity of the Valhalla 2, that would be very nice indeed. The Valhalla 2 will not hide the flaws. The Carbon, to my ears, hid a few.


 
  
 At less than half the price of a LC, Valhalla 2 then seems like a _really_ nice deal, especially if the performance is equivalent


----------



## sheldaze

xeculus said:


> At less than half the price of a LC, Valhalla 2 then seems like a _really_ nice deal, especially if the performance is equivalent


 
 No, I'd still say they do things differently.
 But if you have primarily Sennheiser or just generally high impedance headphones, the Valhalla 2 is quite good!


----------



## Empire1

sheldaze said:


> No, I'd still say they do things differently.
> But if you have primarily Sennheiser or just generally high impedance headphones, the Valhalla 2 is quite good!


 
  
 Wait, so you'd recommend the Valhalla 2 over the liquid carbon as a better amp for hd800?


----------



## sheldaze

empire1 said:


> Wait, so you'd recommend the Valhalla 2 over the liquid carbon as a better amp for hd800?


 
 I wish you could see the contortion on my face 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I did exactly that when I had them both - plugged into Valhalla 2. Plugged into Liquid Carbon - when both were in my headphone setup, sourced from a Gungnir Multibit, I listened and went back and forth. There was just something great about both. The clarity and depth and soundstage of the Valhalla 2. Then there was the warmth and intimacy and easy listenability of the Liquid Carbon. They are both really good!
  
 I'd hate to make that kind of a decision for anyone, but myself.
  
 If strictly by price, and you don't have some heavy planar headphones lying around (I have HE1000), the Valhalla 2 makes a lot of sense. If you have planar and can use the 1.5 WATT, or you just do not mind a slightly more relaxing sound, the Carbon is really very sweet. The Carbon is also now $799 versus the $349 for the Valhalla 2. But also the Carbon is also only for sale through May 5.


----------



## Xeculus

sheldaze said:


> I wish you could see the contortion on my face
> 
> I did exactly that when I had them both - plugged into Valhalla 2. Plugged into Liquid Carbon - when both were in my headphone setup, sourced from a Gungnir Multibit, I listened and went back and forth. There was just something great about both. The clarity and depth and soundstage of the Valhalla 2. Then there was the warmth and intimacy and easy listenability of the Liquid Carbon. They are both really good!
> 
> ...




Wow, that makes the decision really difficult :/

Have you heard the Magni 2 before? What would you say about it compared to V2 and LC?


----------



## sheldaze

xeculus said:


> Wow, that makes the decision really difficult :/
> 
> Have you heard the Magni 2 before? What would you say about it compared to V2 and LC?


 
 Long ago...yes, I owned Magni 2 (non-Uber). I also owned the original Valhalla.
  
 Valhalla 2 is so much better, definitely!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Magni won't play well with the HD800. Get Vali if you're price-constrained, Valhalla if you're less price constrained, and Mjolnir 2/Ragnarok if you want an end-game setup.
  
 I can't imagine a situation in which Liquid Carbon would be recommended above Mjolnir 2.


----------



## shultzee

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Magni won't play well with the HD800. Get Vali if you're price-constrained, Valhalla if you're less price constrained, and Mjolnir 2/Ragnarok if you want an end-game setup.
> 
> I can't imagine a situation in which Liquid Carbon would be recommended above Mjolnir 2.


 

 Agree on all points.


----------



## Xeculus

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Magni won't play well with the HD800. Get Vali if you're price-constrained, Valhalla if you're less price constrained, and Mjolnir 2/Ragnarok if you want an end-game setup.
> 
> I can't imagine a situation in which Liquid Carbon would be recommended above Mjolnir 2.


 
  
 How far off is the quality between a Ragnarok and Valhalla 2, paired with the HD800?
  
 I compared my M2U stack to the Naim DAC-V1 ($2.5k) and the fantastic McIntosh MHA-100 ($4.5k) recently. Both the Naim and McIntosh were outstanding, but didn't warrant the huge price difference for me.
 Valhalla 2 makes much more sense, and Ragnarok isn't too much of a stretch either if the improvement warrants the price


----------



## pctazhp

xeculus said:


> How far off is the quality between a Ragnarok and Valhalla 2, paired with the HD800?
> 
> I compared my M2U stack to the Naim DAC-V1 ($2.5k) and the fantastic McIntosh MHA-100 ($4.5k) recently. Both the Naim and McIntosh were outstanding, but didn't warrant the huge price difference for me.
> Valhalla 2 makes much more sense, and Ragnarok isn't too much of a stretch either if the improvement warrants the price


 
 I'll sound like a broken record but in my experience, the Feliks Audio Elise is significantly better than the Valhalla 2. Really no comparison in my not-so-humble opinion. Can't speak as to the Ragnarok as I've never heard it.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

xeculus said:


> How far off is the quality between a Ragnarok and Valhalla 2, paired with the HD800?
> 
> I compared my M2U stack to the Naim DAC-V1 ($2.5k) and the fantastic McIntosh MHA-100 ($4.5k) recently. Both the Naim and McIntosh were outstanding, but didn't warrant the huge price difference for me.
> Valhalla 2 makes much more sense, and Ragnarok isn't too much of a stretch either if the improvement warrants the price


 

 Don't bother with Rag until you have a source that can support it (i.e., at least Gungnir Multibit). I would start as cheaply as you can. The biggest difference between the two is balanced, for which you would need a balanced cable (_don't use Venus Audio_). Rag's raison d'être is the fact that it's universal, can power IEMs all the way to bookshelf speakers. If you don't see yourself with those power needs—look carefully at the HE-6 and K1000, as well as the Woo Wee and electrostatics, before you decide—go with the cheaper option. It will be good. Ragnarok, as you might imagine, will be excellent.


----------



## Xeculus

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Don't bother with Rag until you have a source that can support it (i.e., at least Gungnir Multibit). I would start as cheaply as you can. The biggest difference between the two is balanced, for which you would need a balanced cable (_don't use Venus Audio_). Rag's raison d'être is the fact that it's universal, can power IEMs all the way to bookshelf speakers. If you don't see yourself with those power needs—look carefully at the HE-6 and K1000, as well as the Woo Wee and electrostatics, before you decide—go with the cheaper option. It will be good. Ragnarok, as you might imagine, will be excellent.


 
  
 What about Mjolnir 2? I'm still looking at the LC, and the MJ2 is about the same price. 
  
  


pctazhp said:


> I'll sound like a broken record but in my experience, the Feliks Audio Elise is significantly better than the Valhalla 2. Really no comparison in my not-so-humble opinion. Can't speak as to the Ragnarok as I've never heard it.


 
  
 Definitely take a look at these. Not the most popular amp but heard some good things!


----------



## pctazhp

xeculus said:


> Definitely take a look at these. Not the most popular amp but heard some good things!


 
 If by not "the most popular" you mean not many in actual use, you are right. There are less than 50 in the hands of users throughout the world. Each one is hand built in Poland, and there is currently an 8 to 10 week wait between ordering and delivery. I believe you can look throughout HeadFi and not find a more dedicated or enthusiastic group of owners. Spend some time on the Elise thread. It's like Hotel California. You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave!!! Well, maybe that's a little before your time )))


----------



## vc1187

Some of the best amps are not the most popular. Don't get me wrong, Schiit makes good stuff for the price, but I've found better sounding stuff at similar price points.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

pctazhp said:


> If by not "the most popular" you mean not many in actual use, you are right. There are less than 50 in the hands of users throughout the world. Each one is hand built in Poland, and there is currently an 8 to 10 week wait between ordering and delivery. I believe you can look throughout HeadFi and not find a more dedicated or enthusiastic group of owners. Spend some time on the Elise thread. It's like Hotel California. You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave!!! Well, maybe that's a little before your time )))



Living in Europe, I'm mainly looking at European made amps (no import duties,...). I must say I'm really tempted by Feliks Audio's Elise... around the same price point however, there is the Icon Audio HP8 mk2. Really torn between them... one is OTL, the other transformer coupled. Both seem to get lots of prize and acclaim... but there's a complete lack of direct comparison... anyone who can guide me there?


----------



## listen4joy

there is also Russian amp Called Lasonic Mini Night Blues but i dont know if they send out of ruusia. also their is Lambart Play it by ear.
  
 review:
 http://headphone.guru/the-lambert-play-it-by-ear-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## Gexs

THis is my first post here and I just bought HD800 a month ago. I am using HD800 with Chord Mojo I think it needs more power. Now Im planning buy a tube amp but the available tube amp in my country is Woo Audio Wa7, Woo Audio Wa6 and Cayin CS55a. Since I don't have credit card, I will stick to buy tube amp here in my country. I am planning to get the Cayin CS55a but I don't know if it will synergy well with HD800. Any thoughts on Cayin CS55a? Sorry if my grammar is wrong, english is not my first language. Thanks.


----------



## Shetzu

gexs said:


> THis is my first post here and I just bought HD800 a month ago. I am using HD800 with Chord Mojo I think it needs more power. Now Im planning buy a tube amp but the available tube amp in my country is Woo Audio Wa7, Woo Audio Wa6 and Cayin CS55a. Since I don't have credit card, I will stick to buy tube amp here in my country. I am planning to get the Cayin CS55a but I don't know if it will synergy well with HD800. Any thoughts on Cayin CS55a? Sorry if my grammar is wrong, english is not my first language. Thanks.


 
 Hi. I am in similar case like you with Mojo & Hd800 and the iCan SE. However, I understand HD800 gels well with tube amp. I have decided to shortlist two of them Ray Samuels Raptor & the Elise from Feliks Audio. Check it out. I believe it has had many positive vibes specially with the Hd 800.


----------



## Gexs

shetzu said:


> Hi. I am in similar case like you with Mojo & Hd800 and the iCan SE. However, I understand HD800 gels well with tube amp. I have decided to shortlist two of them Ray Samuels Raptor & the Elise from Feliks Audio. Check it out. I believe it has had many positive vibes specially with the Hd 800.


 
 Thank you for you suggestion but The thing is I dont have credit card so I cannot buy through paypal or outside in my country. So i am choosing between those 3 amp that i said that is available here. Woo Audio Wa7, Woo Audio Wa6 and Cayin CS55a. More likely i will get the Cayin but i dont know if the other 2 amp will synergy well with hd800.


----------



## vc1187

gexs said:


> Thank you for you suggestion but The thing is I dont have credit card so I cannot buy through paypal or outside in my country. So i am choosing between those 3 amp that i said that is available here. Woo Audio Wa7, Woo Audio Wa6 and Cayin CS55a. More likely i will get the Cayin but i dont know if the other 2 amp will synergy well with hd800.


 
 Based on my experience of these two woo amps in meet conditions, they do not sound bad, but don't synergize particularly well with the HD800.  I'd take the Bottlehead Crack w/Speedball over either of them for the HD800.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

xeculus said:


> What about Mjolnir 2? I'm still looking at the LC, and the MJ2 is about the same price.
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely take a look at these. Not the most popular amp but heard some good things!


 

 I say Mjolnir 2 is better. I didn't mention it earlier because your question only referred to Valhalla and Ragnarok. Phonitor Mini is another option, though it's single-ended solid state.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

If you want an all-in-one unit, there's currently an Audio-GD 10.32 balanced DAC/AMP in the classifieds for ~$1400. With this unit, I would take the HD800 would sing rather beautifully.


----------



## Xeculus

Haha not gonna lie, I'm maybe farther from making a decision than I was a few days ago. There are just so many good choices 
  
 Liquid Carbon, Feliks Audio Elise (or the rest of that line ~$1k), Mjolnir 2, Valhalla 2, microZOTL2, WA2, WA6SE...


----------



## vc1187

xeculus said:


> Haha not gonna lie, I'm maybe farther from making a decision than I was a few days ago. There are just so many good choices
> 
> Liquid Carbon, Feliks Audio Elise (or the rest of that line ~$1k), Mjolnir 2, Valhalla 2, microZOTL2, WA2, WA6SE...


 

 Might be best to start with the cheapest and purchase it secondhand from the classifieds.  Then when you're ready to try something else sell it for minimal loss and move up the chain.  This way you learn from your own experiences instead of getting confused by many other people's experiences.


----------



## murphythecat

xeculus said:


> Haha not gonna lie, I'm maybe farther from making a decision than I was a few days ago. There are just so many good choices
> 
> Liquid Carbon, Feliks Audio Elise (or the rest of that line ~$1k), Mjolnir 2, Valhalla 2, microZOTL2, WA2, WA6SE...


 
 dont forget the new ifi pro headamp.
  
 Im in the same boat and the options are crazy. im leaning toward mjolnir 2, feliks or bryston


----------



## listen4joy

Anyone know how the Firstwatt F5 with HD800? , looks like a powerfull amp with simple design and has DIY kits.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

t think some of the gripes in my Mjolnir 2 review were in fact the result of the source—I'm listening to Isabelle Faust, Daniel Harding, and the Mahler Chamber Orchestra do a fantastic Brahms Violin Concerto on the HD800s and I can't imagine an amp doing more for these awesome cans. Tight, extended bass; effortless, sibilance-free treble, engaging, neutral midrange. The headphones are utterly transparent.


----------



## holyindian

How about Cavalli Audio Black Widow?


----------



## lukeap69

holyindian said:


> How about Cavalli Audio Black Widow?




link please?


----------



## listen4joy

its Eddie Current BW
  
 http://www.eddiecurrent.com/BW.html


----------



## holyindian

listen4joy said:


> its Eddie Current BW
> 
> http://www.eddiecurrent.com/BW.html


 

 Oh thats right, i mixed up on that. Its by Eddie Current.
  
 Do we still have any end game amp in the sub 1000-2000 group, or still Eddie Current BA is the supreme choice?


----------



## listen4joy

probaly one of the best in this category dont know about the others but Cavali also doing great amps.


----------



## holyindian

listen4joy said:


> probaly one of the best in this category dont know about the others but Cavali also doing great amps.


 

 I've missed liquid fire on sale on ebay for 1300 dollars last week.
 Everything else is above 2500 dollars.


----------



## listen4joy

i read good things on Audio gd master 9. i just bought vali2 until i will save for Stratus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, altough ZDSE is no slouch either. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .
  
 The EC BW is indeed great if you aim for it i suggest you sign for the next batch.


----------



## holyindian

listen4joy said:


> i read good things on Audio gd master 9. i just bought vali2 until i will save for Stratus
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Infact Eddie Current Zana Deux is on my wishlist.
 I have started saving for it. I wished i could snap out a used one. Only after i am happy with ZADX i will get into EC BA


----------



## lukeap69

Oh, I thought Cavalli has BW as well. Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## JamieMcC

Quote:


holyindian said:


> Oh thats right, i mixed up on that. Its by Eddie Current.
> 
> Do we still have any end game amp in the sub 1000-2000 group, or still Eddie Current BA is the supreme choice?


 
  
 The Bottlehead Mainline should be in that group there are some interesting comparison on how it faired against a tricked out the DNA Stratus $3450 which is often considered the best cost no object amp for the HD800's.
  
 The Mainline is normally $1200 but Bottlehead always run a couple of promotions every year where it has been priced at $1099.
  
 Interestingly the reviewer also has the SuSy Dynahi which is considered to be amongst best solid state choice for the HD800 and comments that the Mainlines fall somewhere in between the two for voicing, but much closer to the S/S Dynahi which is also more expensive than the Mainline.
  
 His end comments are worth a read.
  
 "The Mainline has a smaller sound stage than the Stratus, and with the HD800's, I found it was actually a GOOD thing.  The HD800's with the Stratus can sound a little disconnected and the Mainline had better left to right coherency.  
  
 The Mainline is an outstanding amp for the HD800’s.  The HD800’s are a picky pair and sound worse than most other headphones with the wrong gear.  I find the HD800’s performance is almost binary: either they are terrible or world class, but never mediocre.   With the Mainline, they are indeed world class. All the issues with lesser amps found with the HD800s (simblance, lack of bass, etc)
  
 If I had never heard the Stratus, would be I perfectly happy with the Mainline?  For sure.  The Mainline is certainly end game worthy and does everything really well.  The sound stage is large and deep and everything has a nice weight to it.  It really is just a great, neutral all around performer and a steal of a deal price."
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline/1035


----------



## Rayzilla

gexs said:


> ...I will stick to buy tube amp here in my country. I am planning to get the Cayin CS55a but I don't know if it will synergy well with HD800. Any thoughts on Cayin CS55a? Sorry if my grammar is wrong, english is not my first language. Thanks.


 
 It would be helpful if you let us know the country you are in.
  
 That Cayin amp looks very interesting. Let us know if you find anything on it or if you end up getting it.
  
 I will giving this amp a try some time soon. It looks very interesting and it will be able to drive my bookshelf speakers too, which is something that I am looking for in particular. http://www.head-fi.org/t/136513/oustanding-chinese-headphone-amp-cayin-spark-ha-1a-review


----------



## listen4joy

Jamie thnx for info but Stratus is listed 2700$, if it was 3450$ i would buy the ZDSE without think twice.


----------



## vc1187

listen4joy said:


> Jamie thnx for info but Stratus is listed 2700$, if it was 3450$ i would buy the ZDSE without think twice.


 
 Jamie was quoting the price of the Stratus with the tubes used in the review (non-stock tubes).
  
 While stock tubes sound pretty good, I'd recommend anyone that is thinking of purchasing a Stratus for the HD800 to consider the additional cost of tube rolling in order to get the most out of it.  Chances are that if the upgrade bug strikes, you'll be buying expensive tubes that bring the amp into the $3,000 - $4,000 range.
  
 A buddy of mine is building a mainline within the next few months.  I'm excited to hear it and have a chance to compare it to a few of my amps, Stratus included.
 I have various different sets of 2A3 tubes that play very well with the HD800, so it will be an interesting experiment.


----------



## Xeculus

A bit embarassed, but may I ask for some more opinion between these? 
  
 Mjolnir 2 
 Liquid Carbon
 Feliks Elise
 MicroZOTL2
  
 Someone suggested earlier that I start small and work my way up, but being a student I don't really have that much money or time to play with


----------



## shultzee

xeculus said:


> A bit embarassed, but may I ask for some more opinion between these?
> 
> Mjolnir 2
> Liquid Carbon
> ...


 

 I have owned the first two .   Mjolnir 2 would be my choice.   Plan on upgrading the stock tubes imho.


----------



## holyindian

jamiemcc said:


> Quote:
> 
> The Bottlehead Mainline should be in that group there are some interesting comparison on how it faired against a tricked out the DNA Stratus $3450 which is often considered the best cost no object amp for the HD800's.
> 
> ...


 

 Jamie, thanks for your reply. Please tell us a bit more about Mainline. a sub 1000 dollar amp is duly worth noticing. If it can deliver results comparing with sub 2500-3500 dollar amps?
 Have u heard the amp yourself, and would you compare any of the high end cavalli audio's or Eddie Current's amps with it? Including the Schiit's own Rag?


----------



## murphythecat

xeculus said:


> A bit embarassed, but may I ask for some more opinion between these?
> 
> Mjolnir 2
> Liquid Carbon
> ...


 
 I think you should add the black widow to that list.
 ill be interested in your findings as im in the exact same boat and looking for a amp under 1k.


----------



## Sanlitun

I finally managed to get the materials necessary to do the Anax mod properly. I had to go to a few places to find the Creatology foam. I couldn't find the felt material so as it is just now I only have the foam and may redo it with felt in future if I can find it.
  
 I was actually surprised that it does make a subtle difference. It takes away a little bit of the zing in the treble and adds a bit of pressure to the mids. Imaging seems to be slightly improved as well. They are still on the verge of hostility, but I find I can listen to some of the songs that were nearly fatal on the HD800 before (CSNY Woodstock and David Bowie's Fame etc.) and there is a little bit more control with cymbal splashes etc. Music that is more suited to the HD800 is fantastic.
  
 I would say these are very close to the HD800S I had demoed.
  
 Usually when I try out my HD800 they are back in the box in an hour or two so this is very promising. I'm trying very hard to not spend money on the HD800S.


----------



## murphythecat

sanlitun said:


> I finally managed to get the materials necessary to do the Anax mod properly. I had to go to a few places to find the Creatology foam. I couldn't find the felt material so as it is just now I only have the foam and may redo it with felt in future if I can find it.
> 
> I was actually surprised that it does make a subtle difference. It takes away a little bit of the zing in the treble and adds a bit of pressure to the mids. Imaging seems to be slightly improved as well. They are still on the verge of hostility, but I find I can listen to some of the songs that were nearly fatal on the HD800 before (CSNY Woodstock and David Bowie's Fame etc.) and there is a little bit more control with cymbal splashes etc. Music that is more suited to the HD800 is fantastic.
> 
> ...


 
 may I also recommend the superdupont resonator that make the hd800 measure almost like the hd800s.


----------



## Xeculus

murphythecat said:


> xeculus said:
> 
> 
> > A bit embarassed, but may I ask for some more opinion between these?
> ...


 
  
 +1 
  
 Although I'm not sure when the BW will go back up for sale or what the normal price will be. The intro pricing for the first batch already places the BW at the top of this list ($1289)


----------



## shultzee

xeculus said:


> murphythecat said:
> 
> 
> > xeculus said:
> ...


 

 The first run of the new Black Widow was a 100 unit run and is sold out.


----------



## rgs9200m

I suggest trying a Rudistor. I have their (older) big one. It's kinder/gentler/sweeter up top with nice bloomy mids but has authoritative, controlled, transparent bass. It worked well with my HD800 (tube-like in the mids and highs).


----------



## JamieMcC

holyindian said:


> Jamie, thanks for your reply. Please tell us a bit more about Mainline. a sub 1000 dollar amp is duly worth noticing. If it can deliver results comparing with sub 2500-3500 dollar amps?
> Have u heard the amp yourself, and would you compare any of the high end cavalli audio's or Eddie Current's amps with it? Including the Schiit's own Rag?


 
  
 I have been running a Mainline HD800 combo for about a year now, its been upgraded with some nice RTI 10uf Teflon and tin foil capacitors, all I can say is even after a year every time I listen to it it makes me grin from ear to ear.  
  
 I have not heard the EDC or Schiit its pretty rare to find them here in the UK so not able to comment, I think I might even be the only Bottlehead Mainline in the UK as well.


----------



## iLoveMusic0822

Anyone can recommend a upgrade cable below 700 US dollar? I appreciate any recommendation


----------



## Peti

Hmmm, not bad at all! Looks like chromium?


----------



## Sennheiser

peti said:


> Hmmm, not bad at all! Looks like chromium?


 
  
 ^ flashy!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

ilovemusic0822 said:


> Anyone can recommend a upgrade cable below 700 US dollar? I appreciate any recommendation


 

*Avoid Venus Audio. *Their connectors are knock-offs, and fall out easily.


----------



## Peti

sennheiser said:


> ^ flashy!


 

 Indeed! Is it available through Sennheiser by any chance?


----------



## Svatopluk

bosiemoncrieff said:


> *Avoid Venus Audio. *Their connectors are knock-offs, and fall out easily.


 
 I'm a long time HD-800 Venus Audio cable owner, no problems what so ever.


----------



## Peti

Ok, found it:
  
 Gold -->  https://www.colorware.com/b-36-colorware-collection-sennheiser-hd-800-g-release.aspx
  
 Chrome --> https://www.colorware.com/b-86-colorware-collection-sennheiser-hd-800-c-release.aspx


----------



## PleasantSounds

ilovemusic0822 said:


> Anyone can recommend a upgrade cable below 700 US dollar? I appreciate any recommendation


 
  
 Check Norne Draug 2


----------



## DavidA

bosiemoncrieff said:


> *Avoid Venus Audio. *Their connectors are knock-offs, and fall out easily.


 
 I have 3 cables from Venus audio, all work great but they are (2) SMC for hifiman and (1) for HD-6XX.
  
 I did order some HD-800 connectors that were knock-offs from another e____ vendor so I know what you are talking about them falling out easy,  the vendor did replace them and the replacements work great but it was a PITA to deal with.
  
 Wouldn't recommend spending more than a $100 for cables, money better spent on DAC/amp or another headphone to me


----------



## Sorrodje

Venus Audio cable here as well. No issue at all. Super solid cable and I'm not gentle with it. I. Ordered a pigtail xlr to Jack as well and the quality is the same.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Glad to know I was an anomaly. The original ones I got were useless; the replacements are still very loose, but they only fall out when, for instance, I'm wearing them while standing up.


----------



## Sorrodje

Definitely an anomaly. Sorry for you. My own cable is Rock solid.


----------



## bearFNF

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Glad to know I was an anomaly. The original ones I got were useless; the replacements are still very loose, but they only fall out when, for instance, I'm wearing them while standing up.


 

 They should not fall out even when standing, just sayin' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  If it was mine, I'd get the cable replaced...


----------



## defbear

I remember reading a warning not to change cable on the HD800 too often as the sockets loosen up. My original HD800 SE cable is tight. I have a Venus Audio balanced cable. The connector are looser but do not fall off for me. My Norne Draug cable connectors are stable and It's my best sounding cable. The Venus Audio is reliable. Sounds a bit bright to me. The VA vendor on Ebay was a bit Bitchy so I do not recommend Venus Audio.


----------



## thomascrown

Same here: my venus cable it's pretty good, a little stiff but not easy to disconnect, the vendor has some serious communication issues though, not worth spending too many words with him.


----------



## bearFNF

defbear said:


> I remember reading a warning not to change cable on the HD800 too often as the sockets loosen up. My original HD800 SE cable is tight. I have a Venus Audio balanced cable. The connector are looser but do not fall off for me...


 

 I've done a lot of testing of various cables with mine and they have loosened up but not to the point where they just fall out.
 Still hold pretty well even when I accidentally yank on the cable.


----------



## Xeculus

After some more reading and researching, I've found the average costs of everything I'm browsing now have slowly crept past $2000+... 
  
 To my wallet, Head-Fi sends its regards


----------



## DavidA

xeculus said:


> After some more reading and researching, I've found the average costs of everything I'm browsing now have slowly crept past $2000+...
> 
> To my wallet, Head-Fi sends its regards


 

 Only $2,000+


----------



## Massacare

Any suggestion for cable with good value and flexibility? Using the normal cable to mojo is somehow quite annoying due to biga*s size of the 6,3mm jack and super long cable.


----------



## Peti

massacare said:


> Any suggestion for cable with good value and flexibility? Using the normal cable to mojo is somehow quite annoying due to biga*s size of the 6,3mm jack and super long cable.


 
  
 I've been using this one with great pleasure:
  
 http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B00D54XCRQ/ref=s9_simh_gw_g23_i2_r?pf_rd_m=AN1VRQENFRJN5&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=0A8AWME8XQZABYDDQSYF&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=302362649&pf_rd_i=desktop
  
 P.S.: I dig your nickname


----------



## Massacare

peti said:


> I've been using this one with great pleasure:
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B00D54XCRQ/ref=s9_simh_gw_g23_i2_r?pf_rd_m=AN1VRQENFRJN5&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=0A8AWME8XQZABYDDQSYF&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=302362649&pf_rd_i=desktop
> 
> P.S.: I dig your nickname




Ah, thanks a lot. I've almost forgotten the furutech stuff. Any options with 3,5mm jack? (doesn't quite matter anyway, I can re-terminate it with viablue 3,5mm)

Which part that you've dug?


----------



## yates7592

I'm looking for any recommendations for speaker amps that help bring out the best in HD800. Must have balanced XLR inputs to feed from an external DAC. Will buy used, not new.


----------



## Hansotek

ilovemusic0822 said:


> Anyone can recommend a upgrade cable below 700 US dollar? I appreciate any recommendation



What is the associated equipment and what are you trying to bring out of the HD800?


----------



## bearFNF

I really like the 'Q' French Silk cable I have. Very flexible and lightweight.


----------



## GodsInHisHeaven

I did it and got me a HD 800 ... boy are they good. I thought my HE 560 were transparent, but the HD 800 is something on another plane. The bass can go so deep (if the song demands it), its just awesome!
 Wish I had heard them before I got the HE 560 so I could have saved myself the investment.
  
 So far the troublesome 6kHz spike does not bother me. I have my anax mod 2 cutouts ready, but so far I don't see a reason to implement them...
 Can you guys provide me with exemplary songs which make the problem more transparent?


----------



## lukeap69

godsinhisheaven said:


> I did it and got me a HD 800 ... boy are they good. I thought my HE 560 were transparent, but the HD 800 is something on another plane. The bass can go so deep (if the song demands it), its just awesome!
> Wish I had heard them before I got the HE 560 so I could have saved myself the investment.
> 
> So far the troublesome 6kHz spike does not bother me. I have my anax mod 2 cutouts ready, but so far I don't see a reason to implement them...
> Can you guys provide me with exemplary songs which make the problem more transparent?




You can try the SD mod first before installing the anax mod. Watch the HD800S review at innerfidelity. Tyll made the mod on his HD800.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

It's incredible what a small piece of foam can do to the sound, it transforms an unbearable phone on poor recordings/mastering to perfect. I think it's also called The French Mod for SD's nationality.


----------



## Hansotek

I could never stand the sound of the Anax mod personally. With the right equipment in the chain, it's not only unnecessary, but actually makes the headphone sound worse. IMHO,YMMV, etc.


----------



## vc1187

hansotek said:


> I could never stand the sound of the Anax mod personally. With the right equipment in the chain, it's not only unnecessary, but actually makes the headphone sound worse. IMHO,YMMV, etc.




Same experience here.


----------



## shultzee

godsinhisheaven said:


> I did it and got me a HD 800 ... boy are they good. I thought my HE 560 were transparent, but the HD 800 is something on another plane. The bass can go so deep (if the song demands it), its just awesome!
> Wish I had heard them before I got the HE 560 so I could have saved myself the investment.
> 
> So far the troublesome 6kHz spike does not bother me. I have my anax mod 2 cutouts ready, but so far I don't see a reason to implement them...
> Can you guys provide me with exemplary songs which make the problem more transparent?


 

 I did the anax mod and ended reverting back to stock.  The 6khz spike is not a issue for me as well.  However some of the problem is source dependent.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Have you tried the French mod? I never heard anax for extended or critical but the essentially the french mod is a bootleg hd800s.





hansotek said:


> I could never stand the sound of the Anax mod personally. With the right equipment in the chain, it's not only unnecessary, but actually makes the headphone sound worse. IMHO,YMMV, etc.


----------



## Hansotek

soundsgoodtome said:


> Have you tried the French mod? I never heard anax for extended or critical but the essentially the french mod is a bootleg hd800s.


 
  
 No, I haven't. I don't really like the HD800S as much as the HD800 either, though. I get that some people like it better the other way around, nothing wrong with that. I just feel like the original HD800 out-scales it once you plug it into really good gear.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

hansotek said:


> No, I haven't. I don't really like the HD800S as much as the HD800 either, though. I get that some people like it better the other way around, nothing wrong with that. I just feel like the original HD800 out-scales it once you plug it into really good gear.


 

 With the transparency it sure does scale better. The idea is better not to hold back and be prone to sibilant music but climb in gear or have a great all-arounder that has some compromises but will play nice to a lot of music and ears. I can see why Sennheiser would revamp their old king.

 I think with the French Mod and HD800S the headphone lands on just right. Sometimes getting 'really good gear' just means getting gear that is subdued. Example, the HD800 stock sounds fantastic out of the MHDT Labs Stockholm V2 while it sounds somewhat sibilant than the MHDT Labs Pagoda. With the French Mod, it still sounds fantastic with the V2 but even better with the Pagoda. Technically the Pagoda is better than the Stockholm but you see where synergy plays as 'really good gear'. Both are R2R btw.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Should I expect it to scale significantly from uberfrost to Yggdrasil?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Should I expect it to scale significantly from uberfrost to Yggdrasil?


 

 Scale so much you'll turn into a fish. Bad joke Fridays


----------



## Liu Junyuan

French SD mod FTW.


----------



## MacedonianHero

hansotek said:


> No, I haven't. I don't really like the HD800S as much as the HD800 either, though. I get that some people like it better the other way around, nothing wrong with that. I just feel like the original HD800 out-scales it once you plug it into really good gear.


 
 Curious what you define as "really good gear"?


----------



## Peti

Liquid gold! Even though I have heard it with the HD800 at Canjam, I was blown away by what I have heard. Since then I have picked up an HD800 (for the third and last time) and a Liquid Carbon. I have heard the S model of the HD800 and I think the original outperforms the S when amped properly. Of course it is only my humble opinion. I think these noble German designers went well ahead of their time when created and then marketed the HD800 in 2009. It's not the first time with German engineers/engineering though. I feel in the future there will be even more advanced amps made that will do ultimate justice to the HD800.


----------



## defbear

I have owned my HD800 set for about a year. I also bought a Schiit Bifrost Uber and Lyr2. It was a little shrill. I had read that the hd800 does not really break in or 'burn in' but pretty much stays the same. Zat true? I have been enthusiastically pursuing 'the one' for the HD800 and have a Master 11 and Liquid Carbon. Both play great with the hd800. Balanced. But what I now find after living with them for a year is that the Bass has really developed and the highs are not sharp. Either they have burned in or I have lost my hearing. My old school hd800 set now sounds pretty spectacular with everything. 
So I sent my Bifrost uber in for the multi bit upgrade. Schiit customer service is wonderful. The turnaround time was only a day. I have been burning in the 'bimby'. It sounds bigger than when new. But. I don't like it with my Liquid Carbon. And I don't like it with the Master 11. But OMG Bifrost Multi it into my neglected Lyr2 is Magic. The hd800 has everything you could wish for in this setup. Bass, soundstage, detail, clarity and dare I say Fun & Musical. That's just another step in the journey.


----------



## Hansotek

macedonianhero said:


> Curious what you define as "really good gear"?



My school of thought is, provided everything else is of acceptable quality, the amp is the most critical component in the chain. I've said it before: I'd rather have a $3,000 amp and a $300 headphone than a $3,000 headphone and a $300 amp. That being said, I might be a little jaded when it comes to what I consider to be "really good" gear, relative to the HD800. I was referring to the top-flight Cavalli amps: Liquid Gold, Glass and Tungsten; Donald North's Stratus tube amp; Questyle's CMA800R monoblocks; etc.

HOWEVER, my only reason for piping in in the first place was because the gentleman seemed to be happy with his HD800 stock and unbothered by the treble, yet thinking about the mod anyway. It's not like you HAVE TO do it.


----------



## Xeculus

hansotek said:


> macedonianhero said:
> 
> 
> > Curious what you define as "really good gear"?
> ...




Speaking of Cavalli amps, may I ask why you're not using the Liquid Crimson with the HD800?


----------



## vc1187

hansotek said:


> My school of thought is, provided everything else is of acceptable quality, the amp is the most critical component in the chain. I've said it before: I'd rather have a $3,000 amp and a $300 headphone than a $3,000 headphone and a $300 amp. That being said, I might be a little jaded when it comes to what I consider to be "really good" gear, relative to the HD800. I was referring to the top-flight Cavalli amps: Liquid Gold, Glass and Tungsten; Donald North's Stratus tube amp; Questyle's CMA800R monoblocks; etc.
> 
> HOWEVER, my only reason for piping in in the first place was because the gentleman seemed to be happy with his HD800 stock and unbothered by the treble, yet thinking about the mod anyway. It's not like you HAVE TO do it.




Most people think it's a requirement because Tyll highly recommends it. I think it has more to do with differences in pairs of HD800. I have heard some HD800s that sound very peaky and some that are not peaky at all on the exact same setup.


----------



## MacedonianHero

peti said:


> Liquid gold! Even though I have heard it with the HD800 at Canjam, I was blown away by what I have heard. Since then I have picked up an HD800 (for the third and last time) and a Liquid Carbon. I have heard the S model of the HD800 and I think the original outperforms the S when amped properly. Of course it is only my humble opinion. I think these noble German designers went well ahead of their time when created and then marketed the HD800 in 2009. It's not the first time with German engineers/engineering though. I feel in the future there will be even more advanced amps made that will do ultimate justice to the HD800.







hansotek said:


> My school of thought is, provided everything else is of acceptable quality, the amp is the most critical component in the chain. I've said it before: I'd rather have a $3,000 amp and a $300 headphone than a $3,000 headphone and a $300 amp. That being said, I might be a little jaded when it comes to what I consider to be "really good" gear, relative to the HD800. I was referring to the top-flight Cavalli amps: Liquid Gold, Glass and Tungsten; Donald North's Stratus tube amp; Questyle's CMA800R monoblocks; etc.
> 
> HOWEVER, my only reason for piping in in the first place was because the gentleman seemed to be happy with his HD800 stock and unbothered by the treble, yet thinking about the mod anyway. It's not like you HAVE TO do it.




Just curious. For me, my 5 year old HD800 headphones became an enigma and I only used them for specific recordings that would pair well with them. The HD800S fixed this and now I can literally throw anything at them and have an enjoyable time. I heard this across pretty much any amp/DAC I used. My main rig (Hugo TT --> GS-X Mk2) or even my Mojo, I definitely prefer the "S" as the treble on the originals was ok with some recordings and pretty harsh with others. The HD800S are still "bright" headphones, but have gone a long way in fixing this.


----------



## pctazhp

macedonianhero said:


> Just curious. For me, my 5 year old HD800 headphones became an enigma and I only used them for specific recordings that would pair well with them. The HD800S fixed this and now I can literally throw anything at them and have an enjoyable time. I heard this across pretty much any amp/DAC I used. My main rig (Hugo TT --> GS-X Mk2) or even my Mojo, I definitely prefer the "S" as the treble on the originals was ok with some recordings and pretty harsh with others. The HD800S are still "bright" headphones, but have gone a long way in fixing this.


 
 I really think so much of this is dependent upon the system and listener preference. I have never heard the HD800, but I know I prefer my T1Gen2 to the S. I'm sure others listening on my system could easily reach the opposite conclusion. 
  
 Running off my Elise the S seems much more difficult to mate with the best tube combo, but when I do find the right combo there is true magic. I have listened to both headphones on my Valhalla 2 and LD MKIV SE and I prefer the T1 on both amps. Please don't consider this as intended as a negative post about the S. It is an amazing headphone. It's just the T1 seems better suited to my preferences.
  
 I'm guessing I could get a lot more out of the S if I had the patience to equalize. But I lived through much of the analog era when equalizers were roundly frowned on by the audiophile community. I probably have (without good cause) carried that bias over to this new-fangled digital age 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 For what it's worth, my Elise absolutely SMOKES the V2 and LD.


----------



## JaZZ

pctazhp said:


> I'm guessing I could get a lot more out of the S if I had the patience to equalize. *But I lived through much of the analog era when equalizers were roundly frowned on by the audiophile community.* I probably have (without good cause) carried that bias over to this new-fangled digital age


 
  
 Yes, and rightly so! Maybe there were a handfull of prohibitive professional equalizers passably meeting audiophile requirements, but the overwhelming majority of analogue equalizers seriously comprimized sound quality. Fortunately the digital era has changed the game!


----------



## pctazhp

jazz said:


> Yes, and rightly so! Maybe there were a handfull of prohibitive professional equalizers passably meeting audiophile requirements, but the overwhelming majority of analogue equalizers seriously comprimized sound quality. Fortunately the digital era has changed the game!


 
 I do agree with you that equalizers today are a totally different animal. Interesting though that Dave Wilson used an equalizer in his early TOTL speaker system. Candidly, time and brain damage leaves me blank as to what they were called, and I don't know anything about the current Wilson speakers. Notwithstanding the equalizer (I think maybe it was a highly modified Crown unit, but I'm not sure), that was the finest system I ever heard. I had the pleasure of spending two days at a friend's home while Dave personally fine tuned the system.


----------



## westermac

After giving a number of higher-end cans a shot (LCD-2, LCD-X, LCD-XC, ETHER, ETHER C) I was a bit disappointed to find I preferred the sound signature of my HD600 to each of them in spite of their superior 'technical' merits... In a last ditch effort I decided to give the HD800 a shot, and was stunned by what I could get out of it with my WA6 and a bit of corrective EQ (taming 6-8kHz peak, bringing up 2-5kHz and sub bass by 2-3db).

Every other headphone I've EQ'd has *sounded* EQ'd, as EQ is essentially working against the headphones' own tuning and physical properties, but the HD800 has taken my adjustments in stride and sounds more correct and effortless to my ears. As a result, the HD800 now surpasses my HD600 in natural sound signature and soundly spanks it in all technical aspects! 

The idea of correcting a headphone with EQ always irked the purist in me before, but never have I heard it achieve such fantastic results, and so I'm happy to shove the purist into a closet and enjoy the music


----------



## murphythecat

westermac said:


> After giving a number of higher-end cans a shot (LCD-2, LCD-X, LCD-XC, ETHER, ETHER C) I was a bit disappointed to find I preferred the sound signature of my HD600 to each of them in spite of their superior 'technical' merits... In a last ditch effort I decided to give the HD800 a shot, and was stunned by what I could get out of it with my WA6 and a bit of corrective EQ (taming 6-8kHz peak, bringing up 2-5kHz and sub bass by 2-3db).
> 
> Every other headphone I've EQ'd has *sounded* EQ'd, as EQ is essentially working against the headphones' own tuning and physical properties, but the HD800 has taken my adjustments in stride and sounds more correct and effortless to my ears. As a result, the HD800 now surpasses my HD600 in natural sound signature and soundly spanks it in all technical aspects!
> 
> The idea of correcting a headphone with EQ always irked the purist in me before, but never have I heard it achieve such fantastic results, and so I'm happy to shove the purist into a closet and enjoy the music


 
 same boat as you. coming from hd650, without eq I find hd800 too bright. with sonarworks, the hd800 is now my daily player and its hard to imagine when id use the hd650.


----------



## Hansotek

xeculus said:


> Speaking of Cavalli amps, may I ask why you're not using the Liquid Crimson with the HD800?




I use them together. I do end up pairing the Crimson with the Hifimans more frequently though, because I just love the way it sounds with orthos. I know I'm not alone in this opinion. When Hifiman's big amp went down at AXPONA, Warren offered to loan HFM any amp they wanted from the Cavalli booth in order to get their HE1000 demo station back up and running. They chose the Crimson because the synergy between the Crimson and orthos is that strong.

My HD800 usually ends up getting paired with a loaner/review amp these days, but when it is not, the Carbon keeps me more than happy enough not to do any irrational spending. 

Plus, the transportability of the Carbon is a nice benefit for me relative to the HD800 at work. It's very easy for me to cart it over to the editing suite and check out mixes, which saves our editor the time it takes to render out the video and upload to Wipster for comments and saves me the time it takes to articulate those comments.

So lots of reasons.


----------



## GodsInHisHeaven

westermac said:


> After giving a number of higher-end cans a shot (LCD-2, LCD-X, LCD-XC, ETHER, ETHER C) I was a bit disappointed to find I preferred the sound signature of my HD600 to each of them in spite of their superior 'technical' merits... In a last ditch effort I decided to give the HD800 a shot, and was stunned by what I could get out of it with my WA6 and a bit of corrective EQ (taming 6-8kHz peak, bringing up 2-5kHz and sub bass by 2-3db).
> 
> Every other headphone I've EQ'd has *sounded* EQ'd, as EQ is essentially working against the headphones' own tuning and physical properties, but the HD800 has taken my adjustments in stride and sounds more correct and effortless to my ears. As a result, the HD800 now surpasses my HD600 in natural sound signature and soundly spanks it in all technical aspects!
> 
> The idea of correcting a headphone with EQ always irked the purist in me before, but never have I heard it achieve such fantastic results, and so I'm happy to shove the purist into a closet and enjoy the music


 
 I agree 100%. 
 After some mild EQ'ing the HD 800 are just plain perfect. I thought about doing the anax mod but decided against it,
  
 Now I am looking into an aftermarket cable, even though the stock cable is pretty good already.
 I cannot decide between OOC copper or copper/silver hybrids. Any recommendations?


----------



## Hansotek

godsinhisheaven said:


> I agree 100%.
> After some mild EQ'ing the HD 800 are just plain perfect. I thought about doing the anax mod but decided against it,
> 
> Now I am looking into an aftermarket cable, even though the stock cable is pretty good already.
> I cannot decide between OOC copper or copper/silver hybrids. Any recommendations?




I have a Double Helix OCC copper neucleotide balanced cable. I like that quite a bit. The Wywires Red cable is outstanding as well. Both bring out the bass nicely and tame the treble edge without harming the transparency in any way. I've heard the Moon Audio Black Dragon is good for this too, but don't have any first-hand impressions to verify. 

If you really want to go overboard with it, I'm sure the Danacable is probably the best (like 90% of listeners can identify this guy's cables in blind tests, they are stupid good)... but I'm sure it costs about a grand, lol!

I did see a used Wywires Red cable on the sale forum the other day for $200. Not sure if it is still there, but if it was me looking, I'd probably grab that one.


----------



## sysfail

I agree with EQing on the HD800. At first I was curious to try out the HD800S, but after trying Sonarworks and tweaking it just a little bit, the sound was so perfect I didn't even care for the HD800S anymore. I am also considering taking out my Anax mod as well since I feel it's not necessary with the EQ. Any of you Sonarwork users use mod(s) on top of the HD800 or just use it stock?


----------



## verycoolalan

Having owned the HD800S for a few weeks now I am in love. So crisp and clear...however
  
 .. I am really wanting to get into the end game audio setup.
  
 Right now I am using the Woo WDS DAC --> Woo WA22 Tube Amp ---> HD800S 
 Wondering if this setup can compare anywhere close to Stax SR009 with a WES or BHSE Amp?


----------



## ubs28

hansotek said:


> My school of thought is, provided everything else is of acceptable quality, the amp is the most critical component in the chain. I've said it before: I'd rather have a $3,000 amp and a $300 headphone than a $3,000 headphone and a $300 amp. That being said, I might be a little jaded when it comes to what I consider to be "really good" gear, relative to the HD800. I was referring to the top-flight Cavalli amps: Liquid Gold, Glass and Tungsten; Donald North's Stratus tube amp; Questyle's CMA800R monoblocks; etc.
> 
> HOWEVER, my only reason for piping in in the first place was because the gentleman seemed to be happy with his HD800 stock and unbothered by the treble, yet thinking about the mod anyway. It's not like you HAVE TO do it.


 

 I disagree. A Hifiman Edition-X on a Chord Hugo sounds better than a HD 650 on a $3000+ system.


----------



## Hansotek

ubs28 said:


> I disagree. A Hifiman Edition-X on a Chord Hugo sounds better than a HD 650 on a $3000+ system.




Lol. Uh, okay dude. I said, "I'd rather have a $300 headphone and a $3,000 amp than a $3,000 headphone and a $300 amp"

I DID NOT say, "I'd rather have a $300 headphone and a $3,000 amp than a $1,800 headphone and a $2,400 DAC/amp."

I don't have any idea how you just took what I said, and made that the opposite of what you said. Clearly, you are powering your HE-X with a device which retails for $600 more than the headphone. So I don't think we are out of alignment here.


----------



## Xeculus

hansotek said:


> xeculus said:
> 
> 
> > Speaking of Cavalli amps, may I ask why you're not using the Liquid Crimson with the HD800?
> ...




Nice! Good to know that the Carbon can still play with the big amps 

Really thinking about ordering mine before the deadline, but still waiting to hear back about the next BW run


----------



## ubs28

hansotek said:


> Lol. Uh, okay dude. I said, "I'd rather have a $300 headphone and a $3,000 amp than a $3,000 headphone and a $300 amp"
> 
> I DID NOT say, "I'd rather have a $300 headphone and a $3,000 amp than a $1,800 headphone and a $2,400 DAC/amp."
> 
> I don't have any idea how you just took what I said, and made that the opposite of what you said. Clearly, you are powering your HE-X with a device which retails for $600 more than the headphone. So I don't think we are out of alignment here.




Same would probably also be true with a budget Chord Mojo. But I never did this test.


----------



## Sennophile

Couldn't agree more! HD800 is an absolute audiophile masterpiece of design! I'm also coming from the triad HD580 / HD600 / HD650.  HD800 is the fourth musqueteer!


----------



## Hansotek

ubs28 said:


> Same would probably also be true with a budget Chord Mojo. But I never did this test.



Fair enough.


----------



## KopaZ

I almost got hands on hd800 (not the S)
if my w5000 never sells in time, ill start doing some comparision with 800 once i get it.


----------



## 62ohm

I can't believe even after nearly 3 years of using the HD800 I am still quite frequently fooled by its surreal soundstage. I often take off the headphone because I thought the music is coming from my speakers when listening to music or because I thought someone had dropped something or knocking on my door or etc when watching movies..
  
 Well anyway, rocking Led Zeppelin II LP late at night with the HD800.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

verycoolalan said:


> Having owned the HD800S for a few weeks now I am in love. So crisp and clear...however
> 
> .. I am really wanting to get into the end game audio setup.
> 
> ...


 

 You don't list a DAC in your electrostatic comparison, but the WA22 is a fine amplifier. Liquid Gold level? Ehh, not really. I'd dump WDS in favor of Yggdrasil in both cases. 
  
 If you want real endgame, just put your name down for the Orpheus Successor


----------



## KopaZ

I love this.
 I just love this.
 now im gonna have to apply anax mod to get rid of treble peak... or grab an opamp that cuts treble out.


----------



## GodsInHisHeaven

kopaz said:


> I love this.
> I just love this.
> now im gonna have to apply anax mod to get rid of treble peak... or grab an opamp that cuts treble out.


 
 You can always use some EQ though  .


----------



## defbear

I am using a Norne Draug II balanced cable with my stock hd800 set. With an adapter for 1/4 SE outputs. That was my way of eq-ing the HD800  Seems they have developed Bass and no edge to the treble. I just received a microZOTL2 SE OTL tube amp. Wow! A great match with my hd800. Bass, treble, detail and prat. Macbook with Amarra into a Bifrost Multibit via usb.


----------



## Zoom25

hansotek said:


> Lol. Uh, okay dude. I said, *"I'd rather have a $300 headphone and a $3,000 amp than a $3,000 headphone and a $300 amp"*
> 
> I DID NOT say, "I'd rather have a $300 headphone and a $3,000 amp than a $1,800 headphone and a $2,400 DAC/amp."
> 
> I don't have any idea how you just took what I said, and made that the opposite of what you said. Clearly, you are powering your HE-X with a device which retails for $600 more than the headphone. So I don't think we are out of alignment here.


 

 I'll also agree with this. Having been through many of the TOTL headphones, DACs, media players, and speaker amps, I definitely prefer to use a mid-fi headphone with a solid upstream rig (transport, source, amp), rather than throwing uber high end headphones and speakers with crap front end. You can always hear the collapsed soundstage, lack of clarity, and a sense of grainyness with a poor front end.
  
 I know its an uncommon opinion with most, but I'd honestly use my D2000 or HD598 out of TOTL front end, rather than have a HD 800 on a mediocre rig. Every time. Even those low end headphones benefit quite a bit from clean amplification. Lack of fatigue is the biggest advantage of having a solid front end.


----------



## jhljhl

zoom25 said:


> I'll also agree with this. Having been through many of the TOTL headphones, DACs, media players, and speaker amps, I definitely prefer to use a mid-fi headphone with a solid upstream rig (transport, source, amp), rather than throwing uber high end headphones and speakers with crap front end. You can always hear the collapsed soundstage, lack of clarity, and a sense of grainyness with a poor front end.
> 
> I know its an uncommon opinion with most, but I'd honestly use my D2000 or HD598 out of TOTL front end, rather than have a HD 800 on a mediocre rig. Every time. Even those low end headphones benefit quite a bit from clean amplification. Lack of fatigue is the biggest advantage of having a solid front end.


 

 HD6XX scale very well.


----------



## johnjen

zoom25 said:


> I'll also agree with this. Having been through many of the TOTL headphones, DACs, media players, and speaker amps, I definitely prefer to use a mid-fi headphone with a solid upstream rig (transport, source, amp), rather than throwing uber high end headphones and speakers with crap front end. You can always hear the collapsed soundstage, lack of clarity, and a sense of grainyness with a poor front end.
> 
> I know its an uncommon opinion with most, but I'd honestly use my D2000 or HD598 out of TOTL front end, rather than have a HD 800 on a mediocre rig. Every time. Even those low end headphones benefit quite a bit from clean amplification. Lack of fatigue is the biggest advantage of having a solid front end.


 
 I most definitely concur.
  
 I'm running $40/pair speakers from my setup and they continue to surprise me and in most unexpected ways, when I apply tweaks to the system.
 This does run counter to the conventional wisdom to 'get the best speakers/headphones as the highest priority'.
  
 But the performance of these Dayton speakers surprises not just me but my SO as well, who isn't into tunes much at all.
  
 Her comment is most telling,
 "I can hear the oboes, you NEVER hear the oboes".
  
 JJ


----------



## Zoom25

I thought I was done with headphones after HD 800, but after hearing that Audeze recently changed their LCD-2 to sound more like the non-Fazor LCD-2.2, it kinda got me thinking. (Stats will happen sometime down the road.)
  
 I really loved my LCD-2.2. Far more than my HE-500 and LCD-3C. I think the HD 800 is definitely the better headphones over these technically and musically, but that old LCD-2 holds a real special place. I could never fault that headphone. It did everything perfectly that it was trying to do. It had a purpose and it was the absolute best at it. Slight emphasis in the mids and placed the vocals smack dead in the middle and gave them its own room in the centerstage. It was really intimate. The bass kicked deep and in all the right places. Perfect mid-bass to sub-bass ratio. I think the LCD-3 had more sub bass than mid bass, which didn't let it kick as hard and proper as LCD-2 or HD 800. The treble on the LCD-2 was rolled while still having decent imaging and details. It was the most pleasing experience. I have actually fallen asleep with the LCD-2s on multiple occasions and woken up hours later.
  
 With HD 800, the imaging is so on point and with great details that I can only take power naps. I'll doze off for 30 mins and wake right back up. The imaging and detail is too good for that. Kind of like a Formula 1 car, can't doze off. I also think the HD 800 sound better if you actively pay attention to it. Sure it sounds great if you're doing other things, but it really shines when you just focus on the music alone. With the LCD-2, its much more lenient.
  
 I was wondering if any of you guys have tried out the newer LCD-2s and know how they compare to the HD 800 or the old LCD2.2? Any amps that work well for both LCD-2 and HD 800? Off the top I'm thinking BHA-1, Taurus, GS-X, M9. As much as I have avoided tubes, something about the WA22 looks really appealing. Every few months I'll get this urge to try a tube amp, and it always starts with the WA22. It looks lovely!


----------



## ph58

Hi to everybody ! I have received yesterday the HD800 (first version , not S! ) i'm really happy because i thought that will be not good with my AUDIO GD NHB 29H , but on the contrary , the pairing reveal to be very good , huge soundstage , very good Basses ( quality , quantity ), excellent Mids , plenty of details ,but the most important is , the hghs are not so harsh ! Sure that the peak on the 4/6khz is present , but i can live with that ! Very , very impressive pair of cans !


----------



## deuter

zoom25 said:


> I'll also agree with this. Having been through many of the TOTL headphones, DACs, media players, and speaker amps, I definitely prefer to use a mid-fi headphone with a solid upstream rig (transport, source, amp), rather than throwing uber high end headphones and speakers with crap front end. You can always hear the collapsed soundstage, lack of clarity, and a sense of grainyness with a poor front end.
> 
> I know its an uncommon opinion with most, but I'd honestly use my D2000 or HD598 out of TOTL front end, rather than have a HD 800 on a mediocre rig. Every time. Even those low end headphones benefit quite a bit from clean amplification. Lack of fatigue is the biggest advantage of having a solid front end.





That is actually hitting the nail on head, people don't usually practice it but its so true.
I have learnt it the hard way but its not easy to practice.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

deuter said:


> That is actually hitting the nail on head, people don't usually practice it but its so true.
> I have learnt it the hard way but its not easy to practice.


 

 I'm learning it now with the HE-6s. Why oh why didn't I choose the 560 or 500.


----------



## Hansotek

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'm learning it now with the HE-6s. Why oh why didn't I choose the 560 or 500.


 
  
 You should really get a DNA Stratus. It is arguably the best for the HD800, it is also my personal favorite for the HE-6, and it's entire design was inspired by the idea of building an amp for the pain-to-drive K1K, which I've noticed on the wish list in your sig. 
  
 I'd highly recommend trying one out. I've seen a lot of your posts, between here and the HE-6 thread, and I feel like this amp is the cure to your amping woes .


----------



## vc1187

hansotek said:


> You should really get a DNA Stratus. It is arguably the best for the HD800, it is also my personal favorite for the HE-6, and it's entire design was inspired by the idea of building an amp for the pain-to-drive K1K, which I've noticed on the wish list in your sig.
> 
> I'd highly recommend trying one out. I've seen a lot of your posts, between here and the HE-6 thread, and I feel like this amp is the cure to your amping woes .


 
 I sold my HE-6 after purchasing the Stratus.  While it is one of the best amps I've heard for the HD800, it's definitely not the best amp I've heard for the HE-6.  
  
 Don't get me wrong, it doesn't sound bad... but it severely lacks the dynamics and visceral bass that I got when I ran it from the speaker outputs of my Parasound power amp.


----------



## Hansotek

vc1187 said:


> I sold my HE-6 after purchasing the Stratus.  While it is one of the best amps I've heard for the HD800, it's definitely not the best amp I've heard for the HE-6.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, it doesn't sound bad... but it severely lacks the dynamics and visceral bass that I got when I ran it from the speaker outputs of my Parasound power amp.




I felt just the opposite, actually. I heard the most visceral dynamics and bass I've ever heard from the HE-6 on the Stratus. As I understand it, this has absolutely everything to do with the tube choice.


----------



## twelvebears

ubs28 said:


> Same would probably also be true with a budget Chord Mojo. But I never did this test.





ubs28 said:


> The only thing budget about the Mojo is the price.


----------



## ClintonL

Hey guy's wondering whats a good bang for buck amp/dac upgrade for my aune x1s. Budget is 550 usd.
  
 Cheers


----------



## SearchOfSub

clintonl said:


> Hey guy's wondering whats a good bang for buck amp/dac upgrade for my aune x1s. Budget is 550 usd.
> 
> Cheers





Chord Mojo. I also heard good things about the new Dragonfly Red.


----------



## shultzee

searchofsub said:


> clintonl said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guy's wondering whats a good bang for buck amp/dac upgrade for my aune x1s. Budget is 550 usd.
> ...


 

 +1 Mojo !


----------



## ClintonL

Hmm would the mojo be better than other options which are for desktops (what i'll be using?)
  
 Cheers


----------



## tgx78

Ifi iDSD micro > mojo if you are driving HD800

I have both and that's how I feel.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

hansotek said:


> You should really get a DNA Stratus. It is arguably the best for the HD800, it is also my personal favorite for the HE-6, and it's entire design was inspired by the idea of building an amp for the pain-to-drive K1K, which I've noticed on the wish list in your sig.
> 
> I'd highly recommend trying one out. I've seen a lot of your posts, between here and the HE-6 thread, and I feel like this amp is the cure to your amping woes .


 
 Why not just get a (much cheaper) speaker amp, and use the MJ2 as my preamp? It retails for—what, 3700? I'm not really after something that expensive short of electrostatics, and even then it's SR-009 and likely the Mjolnir-Audio balanced reimagining of the GES (which is a bit under 2k)


----------



## MikePio

Hey everyone it has been awhile, it is great to be back! 

Finally pulled the trigger on the HD800 and bought them blind. Expected a cold and analytical sound I was very skeptical especially coming from headphones like the K701 and AT-W5000. Luckily for me I built a system around taming these headphones which in theory should synergies very nicely with the HD800. And boy was it a shock to the system... The clarity and resolution was just on another level right when I put them on. The harshness and treble hotness was not there. The soundstage is stupendous. Listening to a good classical recording was one of those "hair standing everywhere" experiences. The bass is probably the most defined and controlled I have ever heard. The slight issue would be that the vocals are very neutral in every sense and sometimes can be a bit recessed, but on some recordings it has proven me wrong (at least on the recessed part). A master-class headphone. Glad to be part of the club  Check out this pic, my mother is never interested in anything audio but when morning I caught her enjoying them lol... That was a first.


----------



## Hansotek

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Why not just get a (much cheaper) speaker amp, and use the MJ2 as my preamp? It retails for—what, 3700? I'm not really after something that expensive short of electrostatics, and even then it's SR-009 and likely the Mjolnir-Audio balanced reimagining of the GES (which is a bit under 2k)



Because you'll get lesser sound. If you do go the speaker amp route, at least do it right. But even down your proposed upgrade path, I'd rather have the HD800 & HE-6 with a Stratus than a SR-009 & (insert whatever amp here). Don't get me wrong, the SR-009 is really good, I just don't find it to be very musically engaging. 

The Stratus is $2,700, BTW. I'm not suggesting you order one on blind faith. I'm just saying, if you do get a chance to hear one at a meet or whatever, give it a listen.


----------



## ClintonL

Would an iDSD micro or a schiit vahalla 2 be better for the 800's?
  
 Cheers


----------



## Oldfella

Among others,i use Micro iDSD 2, and iCan SE. with the HD 800,and am also  experimenting with the EF 6 although, to my ears, replacing with the HE1000,seems  to give a more open sound.


----------



## Thenewguy007

peti said:


> Ok, found it:
> 
> Gold -->  https://www.colorware.com/b-36-colorware-collection-sennheiser-hd-800-g-release.aspx
> 
> Chrome --> https://www.colorware.com/b-86-colorware-collection-sennheiser-hd-800-c-release.aspx


 
  
 Does anyone have the video of them painting the HD800? I remember people posted their process of dissembling the headphones & showing them being painted, but the videos for them are dead.
  
 Anyone saved them?


----------



## defbear

tgx78 said:


> Ifi iDSD micro > mojo if you are driving HD800
> 
> I have both and that's how I feel.


I'm dense this evening. Do you plug the ifi idsd micro into the Mojo or is it that the idsd is less than the Mojo? I have both. I've had the idsd micro for about a year or less. I just got the Mojo. So far the idsd micro is the better unit. Far more flexible. I go on vacations with just the idsd, hd800 set and a laptop. Great sounding setup. I should add that the idsd micro sounds much better after it has been playing for a hour. But I'm used to the signature of the idsd. The Mojo is new. I assume it burns in. I need to live with it longer to judge it properly. The Mojo seems very smooth. It is a cute little Sci-fi device with it's colors, simplicity, small size. A keeper.


----------



## tgx78

defbear said:


> I'm dense this evening. Do you plug the ifi idsd micro into the Mojo or is it that the idsd is less than the Mojo? I have both. I've had the idsd micro for about a year or less. I just got the Mojo. So far the idsd micro is the better unit. Far more flexible. I go on vacations with just the idsd, hd800 set and a laptop. Great sounding setup. I should add that the idsd micro sounds much better after it has been playing for a hour. But I'm used to the signature of the idsd. The Mojo is new. I assume it burns in. I need to live with it longer to judge it properly. The Mojo seems very smooth. It is a cute little Sci-fi device with it's colors, simplicity, small size. A keeper.


 
  
 Ifi iDSD micro > mojo means I prefer the iDSD micro over mojo.
  
 as matter of fact I just sold the Mojo today.


----------



## defbear

tgx78 said:


> Ifi iDSD micro > mojo means I prefer the iDSD micro over mojo.
> 
> as matter of fact I just sold the Mojo today.


Good, so my Algebra kicked in. I have to give the Mojo more time. Besides, everyone can use a Little Mojo.


----------



## ClintonL

Anyone use a valhalla 2 or a Gustard H10? Kinda hard for me to get the micro so going to get one of those 2 paired up with my aune x1s for dac.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Oldfella

tgx78 said:


> Ifi iDSD micro > mojo means I prefer the iDSD micro over mojo.
> 
> as matter of fact I just sold the Mojo today.


 

 I had a quick try of a Mojo,and i don't feel a longer spell would persuade me to change from iDAC 2,plus iCAN SE, or HiFi M8.Mojo is excellent bit of equipment,but not for me.


----------



## vc1187

oldfella said:


> I had a quick try of a Mojo,and i don't feel a longer spell would persuade me to change from iDAC 2,plus iCAN SE, or HiFi M8.Mojo is excellent bit of equipment,but not for me.


 
 Seems like a lot of people say that.  It's been getting so much praise, but there have been many being sold secondhand.  What didn't you like about it paired with the HD800?


----------



## Hansotek

Mojo is better just as a DAC with the HD800, IMO. Yet, for some reason, it does really well with hard-to-drive Beyers. I'm not even going to try and understand that one. Sometimes things just work or they don't.


----------



## Oldfella

vc1187 said:


> Seems like a lot of people say that.  It's been getting so much praise, but there have been many being sold secondhand.  What didn't you like about it paired with the HD800?


 

 I liked it. It was very good, but for me, the iDAC2/iCAN SE combo, produced a deeper/wider soundstage,and a sense of separation between performers,as if they were standing several feet apart.Also running the iDAC2, into HiFi man EF6,into HE.1000. The HD 800,sounds very good through the HiFi M8.I feel that this is my end game.( For now!.)


----------



## raybone0566

clintonl said:


> Anyone use a valhalla 2 or a Gustard H10? Kinda hard for me to get the micro so going to get one of those 2 paired up with my aune x1s for dac.
> 
> Cheers


I had the vahalla2. It was a bit to grainy up top and the bass was to lean for my tastes. The cork & super resonator mod really improve the overall sound of the hd800's. Both mods are inexpensive, easy to install & removed if it doesn't suit your tastes. I'm currently running an audio Gd amp with the hd800's until the black widow arrives. Very good amp, Just a bit to smooth for my tastes.


----------



## Taowolf51

clintonl said:


> Anyone use a valhalla 2 or a Gustard H10? Kinda hard for me to get the micro so going to get one of those 2 paired up with my aune x1s for dac.
> 
> Cheers


 
  
 I use the V2. Very neutral, won't give you a ton of tubiness. It'll sound like a neutral SS amp with more smooth treble. You get a bit more tubiness with high gain, low gain has very very little.
  
 It's one of the most commonly recommended amps at its price range for the HD800's. It also has more than enough power to drive it, since its peak power is right in the HD800's impedance range. It'll give the HD800's about as much power as a Mjolnir, so you'll have plenty of headroom.


----------



## Solarium

Honestly, after getting the Crack w/ speedball, and tube rolled until I found the TS5998 with the CBS/Hytron 5814A tubes, I really really doubt you can find anything better under $1k to pair with the HD800. It sounds absolutely superb, addicting, euphoric, and pairs very well with my EDM even though at first with the stock tubes it was terrible. I can't believe honestly how much difference tube rolling can affect the sound signature. I'm not sure if the Valhalla 2 or Lyr 2 can come close to this even after tube rolling.


----------



## DavidA

solarium said:


> Honestly, after getting the Crack w/ speedball, and tube rolled until I found the TS5998 with the CBS/Hytron 5814A tubes, I really really doubt you can find anything better under $1k to pair with the HD800. It sounds absolutely superb, addicting, euphoric, and pairs very well with my EDM even though at first with the stock tubes it was terrible. I can't believe honestly how much difference tube rolling can affect the sound signature. I'm not sure if the Valhalla 2 or Lyr 2 can come close to this even after tube rolling.


 
 Lyr2 will not get close from my experience, even with really good NOS tubes.  I'm like you, BH Crack with TS5998 and Telefunken 12AU7 does it for me.


----------



## Solarium

davida said:


> Lyr2 will not get close from my experience, even with really good NOS tubes.  I'm like you, BH Crack with TS5998 and Telefunken 12AU7 does it for me.


 
 I have the Telefunken too, I love it, but the one I bought unfortunately gives me loud hissing on my right channel. I got a partial refund but may buy another when I see it on ebay again.


----------



## MikePio

solarium said:


> Honestly, after getting the Crack w/ speedball, and tube rolled until I found the TS5998 with the CBS/Hytron 5814A tubes, I really really doubt you can find anything better under $1k to pair with the HD800. It sounds absolutely superb, addicting, euphoric, and pairs very well with my EDM even though at first with the stock tubes it was terrible. I can't believe honestly how much difference tube rolling can affect the sound signature. I'm not sure if the Valhalla 2 or Lyr 2 can come close to this even after tube rolling.




Makes me really want to try a quality tube amplifier with the HD800's. Using the AT-HA5000 amplifier designed to tame the brightness and increase smoothness as well as the soundstage of the AT-W5000, so the synergy with the HD800 so far is incredible. The only draw back is sometimes it feels like it could use a little more power. I wonder it would compare to a tube set-up... Will have to attend a meet one day.


----------



## 62ohm

Using the HD800 to serve a different purpose...
  

  
  
 Works very well indeed to support a bedroom practice setup and sounds damn good!


----------



## Zoom25

Anyone heard anything about this cable: http://www.partsconnexion.com/product26093.html
  
 A year back, everyone was on the Draug V2 train. Is that still the case?


----------



## defbear

zoom25 said:


> Anyone heard anything about this cable: http://www.partsconnexion.com/product26093.html
> 
> A year back, everyone was on the Draug V2 train. Is that still the case?


 

 Speaking for myself Yes. My hd800 set has lots of bass and no harsh treble. The cable looks like it was made by the Dwarves of Middle Earth for Elrond and sounds as good.


----------



## Peti

zoom25 said:


> Anyone heard anything about this cable: http://www.partsconnexion.com/product26093.html
> 
> A year back, everyone was on the Draug V2 train. Is that still the case?


 

 Make sure to buy that cable from some place else b/c the price they quoted is...how to say it nice...inflated. I have that brand's same cable with 1/4 jack and it's phenomenal. I've ordered mine from Japan and with international shipping it was cheaper. Just to hold this cable in your hand makes you feel good. If I wasn't switching on balanced, I'd keep mine!


----------



## FlySweep

I've had that cable for my HD650.. Really really nice.. Very similar to the stock HD650 cable in terms of ergonomics (which is a good thing, IMO).

The price for the hd800 cable from PCx is significantly higher vs ordering from Japan. If you're stateside, I'd recommend ordering from Amazon.co.jp and using a forwarding service like Tenso to have it delivered. I've done this many times in the past (with headphones and IEMs) and my transactions/deliveries have been safe and flawless.


----------



## Zoom25

Right now I just want to get a sense of the material wire and their sound. For termination, I've always had 4 pin in the past. Although, now I'm actually considering if dual 3 pin XLR cable would be a better investment. Most balanced amps have dual 3 pin XLRs along with 4 pin XLR. Having dual pin XLR could be annoying in terms of use, but on the plus side, you could later run them out of mono amps. Any thoughts?


----------



## Zoom25

peti said:


> Make sure to buy that cable from some place else b/c the price they quoted is...how to say it nice...inflated. I have that brand's same cable with 1/4 jack and it's phenomenal. I've ordered mine from Japan and with international shipping it was cheaper. Just to hold this cable in your hand makes you feel good. If I wasn't switching on balanced, I'd keep mine!


 

 Are you getting the same brand for balanced or another?


----------



## Zoom25

defbear said:


> Speaking for myself Yes. My hd800 set has lots of bass and no harsh treble. The cable looks like it was made by the Dwarves of Middle Earth for Elrond and sounds as good.


 

 LOL yeah I can believe that. I had a Norne copper for my LCD-2 in the past. Like what you described.


----------



## Peti

zoom25 said:


> Are you getting the same brand for balanced or another?


 

 I'm still debating. There's a few other contenders I've been thinking of like the Nordic Vanquish which is to me the most beautifully looking cable I have found yet for my HD800 along with the Stefan Audio Endorphin. We shall see. 
  
 Are you out exclusively for a balanced cable?


----------



## Zoom25

peti said:


> I'm still debating. There's a few other contenders I've been thinking of like the Nordic Vanquish which is to me the most beautifully looking cable I have found yet for my HD800 along with the Stefan Audio Endorphin. We shall see.
> 
> Are you out exclusively for a balanced cable?


 
  
 Yeah, balanced only. I'll stick with the stock for single ended. Another benefit of having balanced cable is that I can get a speaker cable to 4 pin XLR adapter made to try with speaker amplifier without having to worry about shared grounds. In the past I've had good luck with speaker amplifiers for my Audeze's and Hifiman.
  
 Also, why the Vanquish over Draug?


----------



## Peti

I tried to display the two extremities price-wise in my previous post. The Draug indeed is being considered but right now the most likely contender is the Entreq Atlantis if I can figure out the final price shipped to the US. Anyone has experience with that cable on the HD800?


----------



## Thenewguy007

zoom25 said:


> Anyone heard anything about this cable: http://www.partsconnexion.com/product26093.html
> 
> A year back, everyone was on the Draug V2 train. Is that still the case?


 
  
 pcX USD Price: *$529.00*
 MSRP: $529.00
  
 Wow what savings!


----------



## thecrow

peti said:


> I tried to display the two extremities price-wise in my previous post. The Draug indeed is being considered but right now the most likely contender is the Entreq Atlantis if I can figure out the final price shipped to the US. Anyone has experience with that cable on the HD800?





peti said:


> I tried to display the two extremities price-wise in my previous post. The Draug indeed is being considered but right now the most likely contender is the Entreq Atlantis if I can figure out the final price shipped to the US. Anyone has experience with that cable on the HD800?



In my hunting/researching/emailing etc about a hd800 cable over the last 6 mths I've ended up ordering a draug2 and an upcoming new release from Norne of a silver cable (silvergarde) as i have a fairly neutral sounding system for my hd800. 

I was interested in alo's reference 16 but I emailed them twice about 3 or 4 weeks ago and never heard from them. 

I also considered the c3 audio hd800 cable that has a review highlighting its transparency on their website and the moon audio cables. 

A 14 or 30 day trial period that Norne, moon audio, c3 audio offer is why these were on my shortlist. 

PS Trevor tells me there might be other cables coming out soon with Norne and the Draug 2 may be discontinued later this year.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Anyone interested in a double helix nucleotide custom cable with dual 3 pin xlr connections by Peterek. Also a dual 3pin xlr extension with the same cable. Length is 6ft and 4ft extension. Pm me


----------



## hekeli

peti said:


> Make sure to buy that cable from some place else b/c the price they quoted is...how to say it nice...inflated. I have that brand's same cable with 1/4 jack and it's phenomenal. I've ordered mine from Japan and with international shipping it was cheaper. Just to hold this cable in your hand makes you feel good. If I wasn't switching on balanced, I'd keep mine!


 
  
 Heh I bought the balanced iHP-35H-4XLR cable from Audiophonics.fr for a nice price of 135€  (equals to $100 without VAT). I even asked them if that's really the right price? I guess it wasn't since after my purchase it raised to 215€.. too bad for them..
  
 The cable doesn't exactly feel like quality in hand, quite cheapish plasticy, dunno if the higher end Hx version is different..


----------



## GodsInHisHeaven

Just got the FR-graph from Sennheiser and their measurements are exactly as I hear them.
 Strange coincidence, that the last 3 digits are my lucky numbers, so I guess they were made for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 For my last "refinements" I changed my EQ a little. I am very happy that I did not spend my money on the HE 1000, as I got a new HD 800 for only 1050 €.
 In my opinion the HE 1000 has nothing on the HD 800 and I am very close on selling my modded HE 560.


----------



## Peti

hekeli said:


> Heh I bought the balanced iHP-35H-4XLR cable from Audiophonics.fr for a nice price of 135€  (equals to $100 without VAT). I even asked them if that's really the right price? I guess it wasn't since after my purchase it raised to 215€.. too bad for them..
> 
> The cable doesn't exactly feel like quality in hand, quite cheapish plasticy, dunno if the higher end Hx version is different..


 

 I am being guilty as I often judge cables solely based on their looks. The first thing I feel in love with this cable was the connectors/jack though.


----------



## Xeculus

Just got my freq response chart from Sennheiser 

  
  
 Does mine look a bit weird to anyone?


----------



## u2u2

hekeli said:


> Heh I bought the balanced iHP-35H-4XLR cable from Audiophonics.fr for a nice price of 135€  (equals to $100 without VAT). I even asked them if that's really the right price? I guess it wasn't since after my purchase it raised to 215€.. too bad for them..
> 
> The cable doesn't exactly feel like quality in hand, quite cheapish plasticy, dunno if the higher end Hx version is different..


 

 The Hx version is in a totally different league. No comparison. I have the SE version and have been trying to get a twin Xlr. Always in short supply in my local market. The carbon fibre connectors and silver/black woven fabric cable sheath makes for a stunning looking cable with a substantial feel. They are so well assembled you will pass them down to the next generation... With six months of heavy daily use my cable is still in pristine condition. Pricey, but not bad in relation to the overall investment in a good amp, DAC, interconnects, HD800s, tubes etc etc.


----------



## u2u2

xeculus said:


> Just got my freq response chart from Sennheiser
> 
> 
> 
> Does mine look a bit weird to anyone?


 

 Yes. It does not have the common peak around 6-7K. I have a set produced in early 2015 (38XXX) and the graph is very similar but mine has the peak. Those should be solid performers. Congratulations on your fine purchase.


----------



## murphythecat

those sennheiser charts are useless.
  
 all hd800 have the 6khz peak.


----------



## Energy

@murphythecat
  
 Agreed. Even mine is slightly more flatline and I still hear it in heaps. Even out of a warmer B22 amplifier.
  

  
 I would like to make a shout-out *THANK YOU* to @Sorrodje for the Super Dupont Resonator R&D _(research and development)_. Because of you and whoever assisted was I able to finally bearably listen to my HD800 for longer periods of time. Was this close to selling it and or trading it in for the HD800S until I bumped into your page through Inner Fidelity. Only thing that made keep mine for so long was the colorware. For years on end too! Finally the appearance of the HD800S, and then the Dupont. Lucky me.


----------



## Sorrodje

energy said:


> @murphythecat
> 
> 
> Agreed. Even mine is slightly more flatline and I still hear it in heaps. Even out of a warmer B22 amplifier.
> ...




You're welcome !


----------



## ClintonL

Anyone have a hd800 and valhalla 2? I heard the combo is a bit lifeless as the valhalla is kind of neutral.


----------



## pctazhp

clintonl said:


> Anyone have a hd800 and valhalla 2? I heard the combo is a bit lifeless as the valhalla is kind of neutral.


 
 I have a Valhalla 2 and HD800S. What you have heard is consistent with my experience.


----------



## ClintonL

pctazhp said:


> I have a Valhalla 2 and HD800S. What you have heard is consistent with my experience.


 
  
 Cheers for that, would you have any suggestions around the price range?


----------



## vc1187

clintonl said:


> Cheers for that, would you have any suggestions around the price range?


 
 If you can stretch your budget by $50-$100, the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball is a great pairing for the HD800.  While not the last word in definition, it'll give the HD800 more energy, a heftier bass response, and non-fatiguing treble.
  
 Be prepared to build it too, or you could always pick up a used one.


----------



## pctazhp

clintonl said:


> Cheers for that, would you have any suggestions around the price range?


 
 I don't really have any experience with other amps in the V2 price range. vc's recommendation of the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball seems to be a popular mate for the 800's.
  
 I absolutely love my Elise and believe it is hard to beat. But it's about double your price range.


----------



## ClintonL

Yep at the moment boiling down to the speedball + crack vs a valhalla 2 can't decide.


----------



## FlySweep

clintonl said:


> Yep at the moment boiling down to the speedball + crack vs a valhalla 2 can't decide.


 
 I've owned both (for extended periods of time) with the HD650 and HD800.
  
 SB'ed Crack is the more (stereotypically) tubey, warm, bloomy, dynamic amp with nice slam/macrodynamics (OTL's tend to excle a there latter qualities).  The Val2 is cleaner, faster, (much) more resolving, more transparent, neutral and boasts wider freq. bandwidth.  The Val2 has a "solid-state" like sound but, IME, it has the ability to render microdynamics and detail more naturally than most solid state amps I've heard.  There's a certain 'fluidity' and 'dimensionality' to the Val2 sound that I simply don't find in many solid state amps.  The Val2 is often said to possess an 'Eddie Current'-like sound (which is a very high compliment cause EC tube amps are regarded as 'tubes done right').  My nitpicks with the Val2 is that it's a little 'dry' sounding, it lacks some slam, and the treble can be a little grainy (some _measured_ tube rolling may resolve this though).  Due to the Val2's highly resolving nature, it's pretty sensitive to DACs, too (moreso than the CrackSB, which I wouldn't consider an _elite_ resolving amp.. even with cap mods, etc.).  People have paired the Val2 with the Gumby (Schiit Gungnir Multibit) and said it scaled with that excellent DAC.. so consideration for upstream gear is warranted.  Personally, I'd probably pair the Val2 with the Bifrost 4490 (or MB) w/ the HD650 and be pretty damn content until I was ready to spend $1K+.  I had a souped up CrackSB w/ the HD650 a few years ago and loved it, as well.. extremely engaging, fun, and easy to kick back to.  I could absolutely live with that combo, too.. it certainly possessed some qualities that are very hard to find elsewhere in its price range, let alone double it.  There's a certain warmth and fullness to a carefully built/tweaked Crack that's simply captivating.  Something both amps excel at is timbre.. the CrackSB is a little more saturated here.. but the Val2 is more accurate, but can come across as a little sterile (depending on your DAC/tubes, again).
  
 So, it depends on what kind of sound you're looking for.. and what else is in your system.  Personally, at this point in my journey, I'd probably opt for the Val2 (with good tubes) over the CrackSB cause I tend to value a more detailed, transparent sound with more finesse.. over persistent coloration and warmth.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Hey guys, any recommendations for an inexpensive hard case with good protection for the HD800?


----------



## bearFNF

Jaben hippo case large is what I use.





soundsgoodtome said:


> Hey guys, any recommendations for an inexpensive hard case with good protection for the HD800?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

How's the internal padding? Enough to ship the headphone in the case without extra packing material pad around the case? 





bearfnf said:


> Jaben hippo case large is what I use.







soundsgoodtome said:


> Hey guys, any recommendations for an inexpensive hard case with good protection for the HD800?


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

pctazhp said:


> I don't really have any experience with other amps in the V2 price range. vc's recommendation of the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball seems to be a popular mate for the 800's.
> 
> I absolutely love my Elise and believe it is hard to beat. But it's about double your price range.




You've probably done so in the Elise thread - but I can't seem to find it back, and the thread growing like a hundred pages a day doesn't help my case  : How would you compare/describe Valhalla 2 vs Elise? Not only ability, but also tonality, character...? Thanks!


----------



## bearFNF

soundsgoodtome said:


> How's the internal padding? Enough to ship the headphone in the case without extra packing material pad around the case?



No, it is a semi-hard case. Enough to protect it in your backpack or carry-on to a plane. I missed the bit about you wanting a hard case. Some are using the Audeze or Pelican cases.
Here's my earlier post on the Jaben case with pics.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/1635#post_9329673


----------



## kirenoj

Hi guys! I'm looking for a 4Pin xlr female - 6,3mm std plug. I have the Sennheiser ch800 xlr cable but want the possibility for 6,3mm without switching cable. Du you guys have any suggestion where I can find one?


----------



## pctazhp

coldassault said:


> You've probably done so in the Elise thread - but I can't seem to find it back, and the thread growing like a hundred pages a day doesn't help my case
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I understand. It's pretty hard to keep up with that thread)) I did a detailed comparison at post # 8804 http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/8790#post_12438273. I don't have a lot of experience with high end headphones and amps. But in a past life I was an obsessive audiophile for over 35 years. At one point I had in excess of $80,000 invested in my vinyl based, two channel system. And I have heard some of the finest two-channel systems ever assembled. I used to have personal relationships with many of the then-giants of the industry. I just tell you this so you know where I'm coming from.
  
 If there is any way you can buy the Elise I would highly recommend doing so. I believe it is a rare, end-game product. But it is almost a commitment to a way of life. The wait time between order/payment and delivery is probably now about 8 to 10 weeks. Once you get it you will be tempted to roll tubes. But I am convinced that you would have to spend thousands of dollars to rival it, and even then I'm not sure you would do more than just equal it.
  
 Feel free to contact by PM either UntilThen or hpynos1 on that thread to discuss. They are both extremely knowledgeable and anxious to help. Elise wouldn't exist if it weren't for the pioneering work hypnos1 did with Feliks Audio while they were designing it.
 UT and H1 are both friends of mine. Tell them I referred you to them )))


----------



## lovethatsound

kirenoj said:


> Hi guys! I'm looking for a 4Pin xlr female - 6,3mm std plug. I have the Sennheiser ch800 xlr cable but want the possibility for 6,3mm without switching cable. Du you guys have any suggestion where I can find one?


I got one from Dyson Audio on E-bay.If there's none on his e-bay listing message him and tell him you want the female 4 pin xlr 1/4 trs small footprint hp adapter.


----------



## Solarium

pctazhp said:


> I understand. It's pretty hard to keep up with that thread)) I did a detailed comparison at post # 8804 http://www.head-fi.org/t/782754/feliks-audio-elise-new-thread/8790#post_12438273. I don't have a lot of experience with high end headphones and amps. But in a past life I was an obsessive audiophile for over 35 years. At one point I had in excess of $80,000 invested in my vinyl based, two channel system. And I have heard some of the finest two-channel systems ever assembled. I used to have personal relationships with many of the then-giants of the industry. I just tell you this so you know where I'm coming from.
> 
> If there is any way you can buy the Elise I would highly recommend doing so. I believe it is a rare, end-game product. But it is almost a commitment to a way of life. The wait time between order/payment and delivery is probably now about 8 to 10 weeks. Once you get it you will be tempted to roll tubes. But I am convinced that you would have to spend thousands of dollars to rival it, and even then I'm not sure you would do more than just equal it.
> 
> ...


 
 How does the Elise compare to the BH Crack w/ speedball with TS5998 and CBS/Hytron 5814A tubes?


----------



## pctazhp

solarium said:


> How does the Elise compare to the BH Crack w/ speedball with TS5998 and CBS/Hytron 5814A tubes?


 
 I've never heard the BH Crack w/ speedball, Sorry


----------



## kirenoj

lovethatsound said:


> I got one from Dyson Audio on E-bay.If there's none on his e-bay listing message him and tell him you want the female 4 pin xlr 1/4 trs small footprint hp adapter.


 
 Thanks! But 5 negative feedbacks the last month is not "good commercial" so i think i will skip Dyson Audio. The price was good though


----------



## lovethatsound

kirenoj said:


> Thanks! But 5 negative feedbacks the last month is not "good commercial" so i think i will skip Dyson Audio. The price was good though


I had no trouble with him and i live in the UK . you'll find it hard to get an adapter like this anywhere else,i looked for ages.If it's any help to you,the adapter is 1st class,so it might be worth taking a risk.


----------



## hekeli

lovethatsound said:


> I had no trouble with him and i live in the UK . you'll find it hard to get an adapter like this anywhere else,i looked for ages.If it's any help to you,the adapter is 1st class,so it might be worth taking a risk.


 
  
_Any_ cable maker will make one, like toxic-cables.co.uk or forzaaudioworks.com. Heck, if you don't believe in cables, you can buy some Neutrik connectors and cable for a tenner and go to a local soldering shack to finish it.


----------



## lovethatsound

hekeli said:


> _Any_ cable maker will make one, like toxic-cables.co.uk or forzaaudioworks.com. Heck, if you don't believe in cables, you can buy some Neutrik connectors and cable for a tenner and go to a local soldering shack to finish it.


The adapter i have is a one piece adapter,no cable,because their's no cable it don't change the sound of the cable you're using it with . anyway what ever you do,good luck to you


----------



## defbear

kirenoj said:


> Hi guys! I'm looking for a 4Pin xlr female - 6,3mm std plug. I have the Sennheiser ch800 xlr cable but want the possibility for 6,3mm without switching cable. Du you guys have any suggestion where I can find one?


Moon Audio makes one that I use with all my balanced cables. $85.00??


----------



## hekeli

lovethatsound said:


> The adapter i have is a one piece adapter,no cable,because their's no cable it don't change the sound of the cable you're using it with . anyway what ever you do,good luck to you


 
  
 Well, if you believe a short cable makes a difference, then one needs to be pretty confident that all the materials and solder inside the plug are magic stuff that have no effect (have you looked what's inside the adapter?). I rather not break my amps plughole anyway with such a heavy adapter.


----------



## johnjen

soundsgoodtome said:


> Hey guys, any recommendations for an inexpensive hard case with good protection for the HD800?


 
 Look at these.
  
 http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/DISTRIBUTED-BY-MCM-22-24150-/22-24150
  
 I purchased a pelican case for  $45+
 the internal dimensions of mine are 6.12 x 7.12 x 9.25
  
 JJ


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Exactly what I was looking for! Thanks JJ!





johnjen said:


> Look at these.
> 
> http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/DISTRIBUTED-BY-MCM-22-24150-/22-24150
> 
> ...


----------



## Oregonian

kirenoj said:


> Hi guys! I'm looking for a 4Pin xlr female - 6,3mm std plug. I have the Sennheiser ch800 xlr cable but want the possibility for 6,3mm without switching cable. Du you guys have any suggestion where I can find one?


 

 I bought one on Amazon a couple of months ago for $39.


----------



## kirenoj

Thanks for all the answers. I have looked at Forza Audioworks and have bought there several times before. I guess $85 is not terribly expensive. But was hoping not to spend more than $100 on the adapter. Maybe theres no way around it. Or maybe just switch cable. But it cant be good for headphone to always change cable? In the long run?


----------



## defbear

johnjen said:


> Look at these.
> 
> http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/DISTRIBUTED-BY-MCM-22-24150-/22-24150
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you! I just got one of these on Amazon from MCM. $24.15 including shipping.


----------



## DavidA

kirenoj said:


> Thanks for all the answers. I have looked at Forza Audioworks and have bought there several times before. I guess $85 is not terribly expensive. But was hoping not to spend more than $100 on the adapter. Maybe theres no way around it. Or maybe just switch cable. But it cant be good for headphone to always change cable? In the long run?


 
 You could build a decent one for about $20, or if you don't have DIY skills then try PETEREK, he's a poster on these threads, does great work and is quite reasonable prices.  Might be a longer wait right now since he just got married and wasn't taking orders.


----------



## dxanex

So I got bored this past weekend and decided to try and turn my HD 800 into an HD800S with the Superdupont resonator mod, if anyone is interested I made a thread with the tutorial. (Spoilers- it sounds awesome)
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/808044/my-haphazard-journey-into-turning-a-sennheiser-hd-800-into-a-hd-800s-with-the-superdupont-mod-and-paint


----------



## kirenoj

davida said:


> You could build a decent one for about $20, or if you don't have DIY skills then try PETEREK, he's a poster on these threads, does great work and is quite reasonable prices.  Might be a longer wait right now since he just got married and wasn't taking orders.


 
 I could do that, did it with my previous HD650. Bought Neutrik XLR from internett and it was good.


----------



## lukeap69

kirenoj said:


> I could do that, did it with my previous HD650. Bought Neutrik XLR from internett and it was good.



 


I use this one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/10cm-Audio-1-4-6-35mm-Male-to-4-Pin-XLR-Female-Balanced-TRS-Headphone-Adapter-/121669489262


----------



## kirenoj

Thanks I'll try it out. Also very good 





lukeap69 said:


> kirenoj said:
> 
> 
> > I could do that, did it with my previous HD650. Bought Neutrik XLR from internett and it was good.
> ...


----------



## RHMMMM

Sold my set of HD650's I have had since 2004 along with my Zu Möbius cable. Picked up a new set of HD800's off Amazon this week now that the price has gone down, I suppose due to the HD800S introduction. 

Using them with a Chord Mojo and my LHLabs Pulse X Fi and love them! Serial number is in the 45xxx range and they sound detailed but not as harsh as I was expecting them to possibly be.


----------



## Xeculus

So my uni decided to give me an extra stipend for summer... for better or worse, this has let me start browsing amps that I couldn't consider before. 
  
 I'm now deciding if I should keep my Black Widow order or consider if other options would be better. Thoughts? 
 Possibilities: Stratus, ZDS


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

xeculus said:


> So my uni decided to give me an extra stipend for summer... for better or worse, this has let me start browsing amps that I couldn't consider before.
> 
> I'm now deciding if I should keep my Black Widow order or consider if other options would be better. Thoughts?
> Possibilities: Stratus, ZDS


 

 It seems like the weakest link in the chain, given either BW or LC, is the Modi 2 Uber. I'd upgrade to the Gumby.


----------



## Xeculus

bosiemoncrieff said:


> xeculus said:
> 
> 
> > So my uni decided to give me an extra stipend for summer... for better or worse, this has let me start browsing amps that I couldn't consider before.
> ...


 
  
 Definitely upgrading to Gumby. I'm just waiting on Schiit atm... it's been backordered for 2-3 weeks so I'm just holding on til it's available


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

You may be waiting awhile, I think they handle their backorders with rolling production, so it's always a few weeks backordered.


----------



## jibzilla

xeculus said:


> So my uni decided to give me an extra stipend for summer... for better or worse, this has let me start browsing amps that I couldn't consider before.
> 
> I'm now deciding if I should keep my Black Widow order or consider if other options would be better. Thoughts?
> Possibilities: Stratus, ZDS


 
  
 If you are patient wheatfield ha2 or ecp l-2/dsha-1. If not bottlehead mainline, I see 4 built for sale, or ecp dsha-2.


----------



## vc1187

xeculus said:


> Definitely upgrading to Gumby. I'm just waiting on Schiit atm... it's been backordered for 2-3 weeks so I'm just holding on til it's available




FYI, not to dissuade you from it, but the Stratus has a 1 year wait list. 

Seems the ZDS wait list is 6 - 8 weeks based on ones that were recently built and delivered


----------



## shultzee

xeculus said:


> bosiemoncrieff said:
> 
> 
> > xeculus said:
> ...


 

 The gumby will be worth the wait.   On amps you may want to consider the MJ2 with a couple of decent tubes.   The Mj2 is very versatile, powerful and pairs well with the HD800.    I was on the list for this run of Black Widows but pulled off because a Liquid Crimson became available.   There may be a spot available for a Black Widow on this run if someone else hasn't got on it.


----------



## sheldaze

Agree with you on the Crimson - it is, like the Black Widow, an amplifier not likely to be built again. However, I suspect the queue for the Black Widow is full, so your vacancy will likely already have a new tenant. If you are at all curious about its sound, there will be two at the Capital Summer meet. I heard Crimson at the Summer meet last year.
  
 Back to @Xeculus, I heard Stratus at a meet earlier this year. It is, like all DNA amplifiers an excellent mate for the HD800. There is one currently for sale in the Head-Fi classifieds. But I did not walk away from the meet with want of another DNA amplifier. In fact I sold my DNA Sonnet and replaced it with my current MicroZOTL2, which I first heard at that meet. It is not as expensive, and is a great mate for dynamic headphones from Grado through HD800, from easy to drive planar to the somewhat more tricky HE-1000. They, at least the local vendor, offer a home trial. I recommend it highly, closer to half the cost of the Stratus.


----------



## MWSVette

shultzee said:


> The gumby will be worth the wait.   On amps you may want to consider the MJ2 with a couple of decent tubes.   The Mj2 is very versatile, powerful and pairs well with the HD800.    I was on the list for this run of Black Widows but pulled off because a Liquid Crimson became available.   They may be a spot available for a Black Widow on this run if someone else hasn't got on it.


 
  
  
 I agree 100%.  My next amp will be the MJ2...


----------



## Xeculus

Dammit guys, looks like I'll put through the gumby order tonight. Y'all are a terrible influence 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Quote:


sheldaze said:


> Back to @Xeculus, I heard Stratus at a meet earlier this year. It is, like all DNA amplifiers an excellent mate for the HD800. There is one currently for sale in the Head-Fi classifieds. But I did not walk away from the meet with want of another DNA amplifier. In fact I sold my DNA Sonnet and replaced it with my current MicroZOTL2, which I first heard at that meet. It is not as expensive, and is a great mate for dynamic headphones from Grado through HD800, from easy to drive planar to the somewhat more tricky HE-1000. They, at least the local vendor, offer a home trial. I recommend it highly, closer to half the cost of the Stratus.


 
  
 Since the ZOTL is in the same price bracket as the BW and near the LC, I'm even more eager to hear your impressions.
  
 I'm also pretty interested in the ZDS, but I hear a lot of comments that BW falls just the slightest bit off in performance. And I wouldn't have to bother with tubes on the BW.
 At this point, I think the Stratus is out of consideration. The turnaround time is just too long... I can't stick with this pile of schiit that long


----------



## sheldaze

xeculus said:


> Since the ZOTL is in the same price bracket as the BW and near the LC, I'm even more eager to hear your impressions.
> 
> I'm also pretty interested in the ZDS, but I hear a lot of comments that BW falls just the slightest bit off in performance. And I wouldn't have to bother with tubes on the BW.
> At this point, I think the Stratus is out of consideration. *The turnaround time is just too long*... I can't stick with this pile of schiit that long


 
 This still seems to be available:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/807896/dna-stratus-in-excellent-condition-with-upgraded-tubes


----------



## Xeculus

> Originally Posted by *sheldaze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> This still seems to be available:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/807896/dna-stratus-in-excellent-condition-with-upgraded-tubes


 
  
 Thanks for the tip! I will say though that I'm a bit OCD about things I purchase. I'd always be willing to even pay extra for something that is new and mint. Bad mentality yes, but this mindset is even more strong for something that costs this much.


----------



## Empire1

xeculus said:


> Thanks for the tip! I will say though that I'm a bit OCD about things I purchase. I'd always be willing to even pay extra for something that is new and mint. Bad mentality yes, but this mindset is even more strong for something that costs this much.


 
  
 You're running a stock hd800 right? I think BW might be better for you. Much warmer than ZDS


----------



## Solarium

Where was that post which tells you the best amps for each price bracket for the HD800 again?


----------



## defbear

You might have a look at the microZOTL amp from Urban Audio. $1100.00. $599.00 for upgraded power supply. I feed mine with a BiFrost Multibit. It is my Best Favorite with my hd800 set.


----------



## Hansotek

solarium said:


> Where was that post which tells you the best amps for each price bracket for the HD800 again?


 
  
 I don't know if you mean that post I had from last year. I'd keep most of my recommendations, but with a couple of updates:
  
 < $500 - Bottlehead Crack + Speedball
  
 < $1,000 - Cavalli Liquid Carbon  (Also worth looking at: Schiit Mjolnir 2 and some good tubes)
  
< $2,000 - Questyle CMA800R (Also worth looking at: Linear Tube Audio microZOTL2.0) 
  
<$3,000 - DNA Stratus 
  
 <$4,000 - Cavalli Liquid Gold
  
  
 I need to spend some time with the HD800 and the ZOTL2 and Mjolnir 2 to really see where they fit. They are solid devices and quite popular choices with the HD800. They are worth considering, I just can't fully recommend them without hearing more.
  
 Others to consider:
  
 Apex Teton $5,000 - I have heard from several very reputable people that this is the best of the best. Haven't heard it personally.
  
 Wells Audio Enigma $3,500 - I haven't heard this combo specifically either, but this amp is absolutely fantastic A+++. Need to hear with HD800 ASAP! 
  
 Audio-GD Master 9 $1,550 - Decently good treble control & dynamics. Strong on technique, but lacks a little soul. Great at low volumes like 75dB RMS.
  
 Cavalli Liquid Glass $3,500 - If you want to get crazy with tubes, this thing has dual plates and multiple settings so you can roll just about anything.
  
 (2X) Questyle CMA800R in dual mono $4,000 - Double your amps, double your fun, right?
  
 Cavalli Liquid Tungsten $???? - The best combo I have ever heard with the HD800. Amp is still in development. Release date is TBD.


----------



## vc1187

Great list!  Haven't heard most of the stuff on that list, but do agree with the few that I have.
  
 One thing to note is to consider the tube 'rollability' of each tube amp as well and how it may affect the cost.  For example, I can tell you that the total cost of my Stratus and what I'd consider to be optimal tubes for the HD800 is well over the $3000 range and while the stock Stratus sounds great, I can probably think of a few amps that I'd prefer over its stock form at around the same price.
 I'm sure the same could be said about something like the Cavalli LG too since there are so many different tube options.


----------



## Solarium

hansotek said:


> I don't know if you mean that post I had from last year. I'd keep most of my recommendations, but with a couple of updates:
> 
> < $500 - Bottlehead Crack + Speedball
> 
> ...


 
 Nice list, but most of these items are way too expensive for me right now to consider lol. Have you heard the Feliks Elise, how would you compare that to the LC? I have the bottlehead crack w/ speedball right now and the Elise uses the same tubes as the crack so it's a viable upgrade for me. I also don't know how much better the LC is compared to tube amps, does it sound so good even for a SS amp?


----------



## Xeculus

solarium said:


> Nice list, but most of these items are way too expensive for me right now to consider lol. Have you heard the Feliks Elise, how would you compare that to the LC? I have the bottlehead crack w/ speedball right now and the Elise uses the same tubes as the crack so it's a viable upgrade for me. I also don't know how much better the LC is compared to tube amps, does it sound so good even for a SS amp?


 
  
 I mean, LC is sold out and they're not going to be making any more. Unless you can find one used, the Elise is your best shot in that price range.
  
 MicroZOTL2 and EC Black Widow are also really strong contenders at <$1.3K.


----------



## Hansotek

vc1187 said:


> Great list!  Haven't heard most of the stuff on that list, but do agree with the few that I have.
> 
> One thing to note is to consider the tube 'rollability' of each tube amp as well and how it may affect the cost.  For example, I can tell you that the total cost of my Stratus and what I'd consider to be optimal tubes for the HD800 is well over the $3000 range and while the stock Stratus sounds great, I can probably think of a few amps that I'd prefer over its stock form at around the same price.
> I'm sure the same could be said about something like the Cavalli LG too since there are so many different tube options.


 
  
 Yep. Tubes can add up in a hurry. You'd probably want to budget another $500 to $1,000 to really max out the Stratus. It's worth it though. That thing is a beast!


----------



## Peti

I'm puzzled when people use LC in a thread not related to either of those. Is it the Liquid Crimson or Carbon they refer to?


----------



## Hansotek

solarium said:


> Nice list, but most of these items are way too expensive for me right now to consider lol. Have you heard the Feliks Elise, how would you compare that to the LC? I have the bottlehead crack w/ speedball right now and the Elise uses the same tubes as the crack so it's a viable upgrade for me. I also don't know how much better the LC is compared to tube amps, does it sound so good even for a SS amp?


 
  
 I haven't heard that one, no. The LC + HD800 combo is awesome. The treble is quite smooth and the bass totally kicks like a mule. Xeculus is correct though, the only way to procure a Liquid Carbon now is second hand. The Questyle CMA800R occasionally shows up on the "for sale" forum in the $1,000 range, as well... that's a freaking steal, if you ask me. The HD800 loves current mode amplification just as much as it loves tubes, in my experience.


----------



## Hansotek

peti said:


> I'm puzzled when people use LC in a thread not related to either of those. Is it the Liquid Crimson or Carbon they refer to?


 
  
 I've noticed people usually don't abbreviate Liquid Crimson. LC generally means Liquid Carbon, as above.


----------



## Xeculus

Speaking of sold out, I'd highly recommend doing some more research on the Black Widow. There's 50 amps available for the next run (time tbd, current run has sold out) and then either no more, or price will increase by a lot. It's been receiving a lot of praise so far from people who have heard it, so it's worth checking out. I ordered mine recently.


----------



## Youth

xeculus said:


> Speaking of sold out, I'd highly recommend doing some more research on the Black Widow. There's 50 amps available for the next run (time tbd, current run has sold out) and then either no more, or price will increase by a lot. It's been receiving a lot of praise so far from people who have heard it, so it's worth checking out. I ordered mine recently.


 
  
 If I lived in the US I would have bought one as well. Curious how it compares to Liquid Carbon.


----------



## sheldaze

youth said:


> If I lived in the US I would have bought one as well. Curious how it compares to Liquid Carbon.


 
 I share the same curiosity!


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

No





hansotek said:


> I don't know if you mean that post I had from last year. I'd keep most of my recommendations, but with a couple of updates:
> 
> < $500 - Bottlehead Crack + Speedball
> 
> ...




Nice list... just wondering, not a single Eddie Current amp worth a mention? Any reason?


----------



## vc1187

coldassault said:


> No
> Nice list... just wondering, not a single Eddie Current amp worth a mention? Any reason?


 
 Probably because this is his personal list of things he has either heard or desires to hear.
 Everyone has different opinions, but this is certainly a good place to start.


----------



## DavidA

coldassault said:


> No
> Nice list... just wondering, not a single Eddie Current amp worth a mention? Any reason?


 
 I would add EC Balancing Act to the list, better than Liquid Glass to me when I heard both last year.  But for over all I would take Liquid Glass, a little more flexible than Balancing Act


----------



## Hansotek

coldassault said:


> No
> Nice list... just wondering, not a single Eddie Current amp worth a mention? Any reason?







davida said:


> I would add EC Balancing Act to the list, better than Liquid Glass to me when I heard both last year.  But for over all I would take Liquid Glass, a little more flexible than Balancing Act




I've heard the Balancing Act is absolutely phenomenal with the HD800. I have not heard it personally. I would image it is probably up there with the very best of them. I simply have not heard any of Craig's amps. I would definitely like to though!


----------



## Zoom25

Questyle in dual mono or GS-X 2 for HD 800?


----------



## Hansotek

zoom25 said:


> Questyle in dual mono or GS-X 2 for HD 800?




I'm not as in love with the GS-X 2 as some others, but it's a nice device overall. If somebody offered me both today, I'd choose the Questyle. I'd be interested to hear the differences volume matched and head-to-head on the same DAC, though.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

davida said:


> I would add EC Balancing Act to the list, better than Liquid Glass to me when I heard both last year.  But for over all I would take Liquid Glass, a little more flexible than Balancing Act




What about the current run ZDS? 

Have you heard the Stratus? How would you compare it to the Balancing Act and the Liquid Glass?


----------



## Zoom25

hansotek said:


> I'm not as in love with the GS-X 2 as some others, but it's a nice device overall. If somebody offered me both today, *I'd choose the Questyle*. I'd be interested to hear the differences volume matched and head-to-head on the same DAC, though.


 
 Cool. Is that referring to the Questyle in dual mono mode or single ended, against taking it over GS-X (assuming that's running balanced).


----------



## Xeculus

Here's a list of the current most widely regarded top amps for the HD800 by price bracket:
  
*$499 and below*
 Schiit Vali 2
 Bottlehead Crack + Speedball
 Schiit Valhalla 2
  
*$500-999*
 Feliks Audio Elise
 Schiit Mjolnir 2
 ECP Torpedo III
Cavalli Liquid Carbon 
  
*$1000-1999*
 Linear Tube Audio microZOTL2
 Eddie Current Black Widow
 Schiit Ragnarok
  
*$2000-2999*
 Eddie Current Zana Deux S
 DNA Stratus
 Headamp GS-X Mk2
Cavalli Liquid Crimson 
  
*$3000 and up*
 Eddie Current Balancing Act
 Apex Teton 
 Eddie Current Studio Jr*
 DNA Stellaris*
 Cavalli Liquid Tungsten*
Eddie Current Studio 
Cavalli Liquid Glass 
Cavalli Liquid Gold 
  
  
  * denotes a new product that has yet to be released
Striked Out denotes sold out or discontinued ​


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I might add Vali 2 to the first bracket and Liquid Crimson and Glass to two of the upper ones.


----------



## Xeculus

I wonder if we should make a separate thread for this, since with HD800 prices coming down, more people are bound to be upgrading their rigs and looking for new amps. 
  
 Quote:


bosiemoncrieff said:


> I might add Vali 2 to the first bracket and Liquid Crimson and Glass to two of the upper ones.


 
  
 Added them in. I just noticed you can't buy any of the Cavalli amps right now. What's up with that?


----------



## mysticstryk

I'm going to be one of those people soon I'm sure.  Really appreciating the amp talk going on.  I've been looking for a new amp for my hd650 with the knowledge that I will be eventually getting an hd800 in the not to distant future.


----------



## jhljhl

xeculus said:


> Here's a list of the current most widely regarded top amps for the HD800 by price bracket:
> 
> *$499 and below*
> Bottlehead Crack + Speedball
> ...


 

 WA5/5le if you like a lush romantic sound. Get an endorphin cable too and all your sibilance problems are gone too.


----------



## Peti

xeculus said:


> Added them in. I just noticed you can't buy any of the Cavalli amps right now. What's up with that?


 

 They had a deadline to order from their amps before they got discontinued. The deadline is passed and now they busy producing the ordered amps to be shipped. Mine will come around August as I was told. Their new line-up of amps will be coming soon. Tungsten seems to be the new flagship, but it's only me speculating. Hopefully I can get to listen it with the HD800 in a few days.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

RE the amp question, if we're going to create a page in which the first post is a guide that continually gets updated, we will need to prove that these threads are all insufficient/obsolete/impossible to make work for that task:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/660817/whats-the-best-amp-for-hd800
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/802062/amps-to-audition-for-hd800
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/427946/best-hd800-amp
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/583814/amp-dac-for-disappointed-hd800-owner
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/645367/lcd-3-hd-800-amp
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/606575/how-would-the-hd800-sound-without-an-amp
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/629322/hd800-1-000-2-500-amp-sonic-bliss
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/611093/amp-and-dac-for-hd800
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/724824/amp-for-hd800-soloist-sl-or-wa7
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/568583/best-amp-for-hd-800
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/804635/amp-dac-for-senn-hd800s-for-studio-use
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/807839/amp-for-hd800-500usd
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/655244/senn-hd800-amp-conundrum
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/802186/hd800-amp
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/795835/do-i-need-a-amp-for-hd800-considering-my-motherboards-sound-card
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/427096/hd-800-amp-maybe-dac


----------



## mysticstryk

bosiemoncrieff said:


> RE the amp question, if we're going to create a page in which the first post is a guide that continually gets updated, we will need to prove that these threads are all insufficient/obsolete/impossible to make work for that task:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/660817/whats-the-best-amp-for-hd800
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/802062/amps-to-audition-for-hd800
> ...




I think that's the point he was trying to make. 

One thread to rule them all. One thread to find them...


----------



## Hansotek

zoom25 said:


> Cool. Is that referring to the Questyle in dual mono mode or single ended, against taking it over GS-X (assuming that's running balanced).



Dual mono. I haven't spent a ton of time listening to the single, but I will have the golden edition in house for review pretty soon and will look at both options, if you want to check back later.


----------



## lukeap69

2359glenn OTL amp with 6BL7 output tubes is the best I have heard with my HD800SD.


----------



## Hansotek

xeculus said:


> Added them in. I just noticed you can't buy any of the Cavalli amps right now. What's up with that?



You'll be able to get them through authorized dealers like The Source AV. But that generation won't be built to order anymore. As far as the next generation goes, I can't say much, but the Liquid Tungsten isn't the only trick Alex has up his sleeve.


----------



## defbear

I hope I'm not repeating myself. My hd800 set is a splendid match with my microZOTL2 amp by Linear Tube Audio. Prat, Bass Detail, extended Treble that is never harsh. Huge soundstage. Buzzword Compliant. Everything you want for the hd800.


----------



## JamieMcC

What no Bottlehead Mainline ($1200) its performance and synergy with the hd800 is exceptional.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

hansotek said:


> You'll be able to get them through authorized dealers like The Source AV. But that generation won't be built to order anymore. As far as the next generation goes, I can't say much, but the Liquid Tungsten isn't the only trick Alex has up his sleeve.




Is this just me, probably a psychological thing as well, but I would be reluctant to buy Cavalli gear, well knowing it will be replaced by something "better" just a year after. It's allmost as bad as Apple 

At least, I've seen DNA and EC produce some consistently highly regarded products since I stepped into this hobby (not too many years). You get the feeling it is a finished product. Or if something changes, still the same product name and design, and updates are even made available to current owners. 

Cavalli seems to go through completely different designs like fresh underwear. What's about that strategy? It would feel obsolete after one year only...

Maybe I'm exaggerating...


----------



## Xeculus

coldassault said:


> Is this just me, probably a psychological thing as well, but I would be reluctant to buy Cavalli gear, well knowing it will be replaced by something "better" just a year after. It's allmost as bad as Apple
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Agreed. I would say that Cavalli product cycles seem to be even greater leaps than Apple's, maybe like from iPhone 4 to iPhone 5 to iPhone 6 with no incremental "S" model in between.


----------



## audiojun

xeculus said:


> Here's a list of the current most widely regarded top amps for the HD800 by price bracket:
> 
> *$499 and below*
> Bottlehead Crack + Speedball
> ...




Add Torpedo III to that list it's too good at it's price point. Competes with the 1k-3k category while costing about $850 maxed out in upgrades.


----------



## vc1187

coldassault said:


> Is this just me, probably a psychological thing as well, but I would be reluctant to buy Cavalli gear, well knowing it will be replaced by something "better" just a year after. It's allmost as bad as Apple
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The difference is EC and DNA amps are built to order, and Cavalli does production runs.  It is Cavalli's primary job to produce audio equipment and his passion is constantly coming up with new designs and ideas, while Donald North and I believe Craig Uthus have other main occupations.
  
 If you're one of those people that aren't satisfied unless you have the latest and greatest, then this method of thinking will get you in trouble with companies like Cavalli or Schiit (who also replace older versions of their products with newer products and increment the number of the product).
  
 I like to look at things this way: If I own a liquid gold and it sounds amazing to me, then a liquid platinum is released, my liquid gold still sounds exactly the same.  Value changing and obsolescence is based on the market, trends, and personal beliefs - not the overall quality of the product.


----------



## sheldaze

bosiemoncrieff said:


> RE the amp question, if we're going to create a page in which the first post is a guide that continually gets updated, we will need to prove that these threads are all insufficient/obsolete/impossible to make work for that task:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/660817/whats-the-best-amp-for-hd800
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/802062/amps-to-audition-for-hd800
> ...


 
 Perhaps what is needed is a yearly iteration of this?
  
 They are the same topic, though I am finding a few threads from your list that I've not read. And those are generally the older threads, with amplifiers either no longer in existence or that have been superseded by, as the post above says, newer versions of amplifiers from the same company.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

vc1187 said:


> The difference is EC and DNA amps are built to order, and Cavalli does production runs.  It is Cavalli's primary job to produce audio equipment and his passion is constantly coming up with new designs and ideas, while Donald North and I believe Craig Uthus have other main occupations.
> 
> If you're one of those people that aren't satisfied unless you have the latest and greatest, then this method of thinking will get you in trouble with companies like Cavalli or Schiit (who also replace older versions of their products with newer products and increment the number of the product).
> 
> I like to look at things this way: If I own a liquid gold and it sounds amazing to me, then a liquid platinum is released, my liquid gold still sounds exactly the same.  Value changing and obsolescence is based on the market, trends, and personal beliefs - not the overall quality of the product.


 

 I will start taking Cavalli more seriously when they have more than one amplifier below $1,000. Schiit, of course, has only one _above_ $1,000. Making stuff for prices that cater to the 1% is a cute trick, but one of the great parts of DavidMahler's battle of the flagships is that he assigns value grades in addition to SQ ranking. If we are to make an HD800 amp thread (whether or not it's replaced come 2017 to keep it emphatically current), I think building value-per-dollar into it in the assessments we give amps would be vital.


----------



## Hansotek

coldassault said:


> Is this just me, probably a psychological thing as well, but I would be reluctant to buy Cavalli gear, well knowing it will be replaced by something "better" just a year after. It's allmost as bad as Apple
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Most of their stuff has been out for two or three years now, which is as long or longer than many of the products in this hobby. The buzz about them has just gotten a lot louder in the last 6-8 months, so maybe that's why it feels like the turnover is quick. Anyway, the Liquid Gold will still sound like the Liquid Gold a year from now.


----------



## Hansotek

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I will start taking Cavalli more seriously when they have more than one amplifier below $1,000. Schiit, of course, has only one _above_ $1,000. Making stuff for prices that cater to the 1% is a cute trick, but one of the great parts of DavidMahler's battle of the flagships is that he assigns value grades in addition to SQ ranking. If we are to make an HD800 amp thread (whether or not it's replaced come 2017 to keep it emphatically current), I think building value-per-dollar into it in the assessments we give amps would be vital.


 
  

 I understand your point-of-view here, but you’re sort of off-base on a couple of fronts. Allow me to explain.
  
 For starters, these are two companies that have totally different missions, both of which are equally valid and noble. Schiit’s mission is to make high quality audio affordable. Cavalli’s is to make no-compromise products that sound like nothing at all – to do no harm to the sound. Both succeed quite well and that’s why you see Cavalli in so many “Best sounding gear” conversations and Schiit in so many “Best value gear” conversations.
  
 My second point is on this whole “priced for the 1%” comment, and “I’m not going to take them seriously until they have more than one product under $1K.” I’ll just start off by noting that there are two sub $1K products in the current Cavalli lineup: the Carbon $799 and the soon-to-be-released Liquid Spark $499. While two products instead of one may not convince you, I think there is something else that is much more convincing that you have overlooked, which is this: http://www.cavalliaudio.com/pages/projects
  
 In addition to the six (soon to be seven) products in the Cavalli line-up, Alex has published seven FREE DIY designs, which anyone with the requisite skills (or a friend with the requisite skills) can make from readily-available, easily acquirable parts relatively cheaply (usually a couple hundred bucks). Again, these designs are available to anybody who wants them at no cost, whatsoever.
  
 On that note, it’s important to remember that up until just a few months ago, Cavalli Audio was a one-man operation until Alex brought on Warren and Stan. When you’re a one man show, efficiency is everything, so it is understandable that Alex would focus in on a few well designed, end-game flagship products – assembling a handful of orders a month, rather than running himself ragged trying to assemble dozens upon dozens of mid-priced products.
  
 Imagine you are a hobbyist in your mid sixties. You’re very, very good at what you do and can build any amp you want. So you have a choice. You can build one or two amps a week for $4k apiece or build eight to sixteen amps a week for $500 apiece. You’d work yourself to death with Option B. Option A is the obvious choice. So, you see, it is not a “cute trick” at all, as you said. It is a very simple, business (and human) decision to make. You build the very best product you can and sell in lower quantities.
  
 Schiit, in contrast, has far more employees and was founded by industry veterans. Their whole model is different and it is geared around delivering on that mission of affordable, high-quality audio products. Could they make even better quality stuff if they really wanted to? I’m sure they could. But that’s not what they are about. They put the majority of their brainpower into making quality products that are attainable for the everyman. It’s totally righteous and they have been quite successful in it. I own four of their products myself.
  
 It is also worth noting, however, that Alex Cavalli, coming from humble DIY roots, was bothered enough by the essential high cost of entry for his flagship amps that he created the Liquid Carbon and sold the first run at essentially zero profit as a giveback to the community. If you’ve never read that story before, I highly recommend checking it out in Warren Chi’s review the Head-fi buying guide. I know the story behind that product played a big part in Warren’s difficult and emotional decision to leave Head-fi and go work for Cavalli. It’s really cool. http://www.head-fi.org/a/head-fi-buying-guide-desktop-amps-dacs-2
  
 Anyway, you’re allowed to feel however you want about any of these manufacturers, just lending a little extra context and perspective.


----------



## Xeculus

+1 for Hansotek, agreed. 
  
 Nevertheless, just for some context, the cheapest Cavalli product on the current lineup (not counting the limited edition Carbon) is $3000. Yes, $3000 for their lowest end product (Crimson). A Stratus or ZDS, viewed by many as the best amps money can buy for the HD800, cost $2700 and $2300 respectively. And both are also hand-built by Donald and Craig and sell in perhaps even lower quantities than Cavalli gear. 
  


sheldaze said:


> Perhaps what is needed is a yearly iteration of this?
> 
> They are the same topic, though I am finding a few threads from your list that I've not read. And those are generally the older threads, with amplifiers either no longer in existence or that have been superseded by, as the post above says, newer versions of amplifiers from the same company.


 
  
 I've been trying to think how we could format such a guide. DavidMahler's Battle of the Flagships is obviously a great format we could base it off of, but we don't have a single person/group evaluating every single amp. 
  
 Perhaps we can give each amp a short synopsis of its sound signature (like Mahler in his Flagships guide, ie: treble, mids, bass, other dynamics etc). We could follow each synopsis with impressions and quotes from members who own or have extensively auditioned each amp.
  
 Thoughts?


----------



## Hansotek

xeculus said:


> +1 for Hansotek, agreed.
> 
> Nevertheless, just for some context, the cheapest Cavalli product on the current lineup (not counting the limited edition Carbon) is $3000. Yes, $3000 for their lowest end product (Crimson). A Stratus or ZDS, viewed by many as the best amps money can buy for the HD800, cost $2700 and $2300 respectively. And both are also hand-built by Donald and Craig and sell in perhaps even lower quantities than Cavalli gear.
> 
> ...




I've mulled that idea over myself, given the fact that I've had the good fortune to have tried a few dozen different amps and have lots of opinions on them... It's just such a monumental effort to actually do it. Not to mention there is a lot of rare "fringe" stuff that likely ranks way up there but is somewhat difficult to obtain.


----------



## shultzee

hansotek said:


> bosiemoncrieff said:
> 
> 
> > I will start taking Cavalli more seriously when they have more than one amplifier below $1,000. Schiit, of course, has only one _above_ $1,000. Making stuff for prices that cater to the 1% is a cute trick, but one of the great parts of DavidMahler's battle of the flagships is that he assigns value grades in addition to SQ ranking. If we are to make an HD800 amp thread (whether or not it's replaced come 2017 to keep it emphatically current), I think building value-per-dollar into it in the assessments we give amps would be vital.
> ...


 

 I respect the business model of Cavalli.  Him making 500 carbons at break even to give back to this community was pretty amazing.   I also am fortunate to have acquired a Crimson which imho is just a stellar amp.  Keep up the good work Alex.


----------



## Evshrug

Just got my HD800 a few weeks ago, and have a friend come over and listen to it today. We are blown away by it on my Theta D S Pro Basic II DAC and Liquid Carbon amp. I could literally feel the sensation of air moving the hairs on the skin of my ear, and my friend was pounding his knee so hard I thought he was going to hurt himself! 

You guys know the sound... Nothing like the super-analytical treble-sharp exaggerated-soundstage headphone that some people talk about in hushed tones, but rather the sound is natural, with balanced and seemingly true-timbred presentation of each instrument with no bloom yet engaging and coherent as a whole. What impresses me is how enjoyable the sound can be with even badly mastered stuff, like the recessed vocals of The Pixies and Janis Joplin. Yes, the instruments are definitely louder and more forward than the vocals, but since the HD800's mids aren't noticably recessed, the flaws aren't exaggerated, and the sound is so clear that I don't have to concentrate to take in the lyrics and music as a whole. Treble has bite but not brittle (cymbals are ah-MAi-zing!), mids are "liquid," and the treble's got balls without being a smoggy bloomy mess. The comfort is also the best I've had. I literally can't think of complaints other than I'm afraid I'll touch the silver mesh and cause it to rust.

I'm also pleased that this kit cost a fair sight less than a lot of setups I've seen. I got the HD800 used from Amazon, the Theta for $400 (plus shipping, IIRC), and the Carbon came last year at $600. The setup is so good... I don't really feel any part of it is lacking (except I'd like to use this gear with surround processing when I play games or movies). I've heard that the amp stuff under $1k would all be unable to handle the voltage swing during crescendo moments, or sound harsh, except for the Vali which avoids that by wooly-ing the sound for less treble, detail, and soundstage, so you don't notice faults other than the fact that you end up bottlenecking the system. I'd love to hear these HD800 on a Stratus, but at the same time I definitely need to put my money back to work instead of play till I get another tax refund or raise. I feel like current mode amps, or amps that are overbuilt like the Stratus or ALO Stage Six, are the way to go however (makes me curious about the Apogee Groove).

One thing about Cavalli... The Spark and the Tungsten are the only known products that will be available new in the future. The final production run of the Crimson, Glass, and Gold (and I think the estat amp?) just ended and the whole pricing tier could change with a new lineup of products this year and next. Just saying...


----------



## westermac

Out of curiosity, can anyone comment on the differences between the Crack (w/ or w/out speedball) and WA6 with regard to driving the HD800? 

I realize they are completely different by design (OTL vs transformer coupled) but as a WA6 owner I've always wondered how the Crack compared. (If it's of any help, my preferences tend more toward neutral than warm/euphonic. Any SS amps I've tried with the HD800 are just too "edgy").

Thanks in advance


----------



## drez

zoom25 said:


> Questyle in dual mono or GS-X 2 for HD 800?




Depends on the DAC and how used to HD800 sound signature you are. To me though GSX mkii was always bright/etched in treble, had slightly boomy bass (vs my reference), and has slight yellow tonality (?). Its a bit like HE1000 though - some people just dont hear it... Synergy wise I would be wary. Monoblocks need a preamp or digital volume control, and $$$. I would recommend Master 9 for something neutral and transparent with slight smoothness.

Edit: woo audio WA2 was also excellent.


----------



## Zoom25

drez said:


> Depends on the DAC and how used to HD800 sound signature you are. To me though GSX mkii was always bright/etched in treble, had slightly boomy bass (vs my reference), and has slight *yellow tonality* (?). Its a bit like HE1000 though - some people just dont hear it... Synergy wise I would be wary. Monoblocks need a preamp or digital volume control, and $$$. I would recommend Master 9 for something neutral and transparent with slight smoothness.
> 
> Edit: woo audio WA2 was also excellent.


 
 Yellow tonality...now that's one I have never heard before.
  
 What DAC were you using?


----------



## pctazhp

vc1187 said:


> I like to look at things this way: If I own a liquid gold and it sounds amazing to me, then a liquid platinum is released, my liquid gold still sounds exactly the same.  Value changing and obsolescence is based on the market, trends, and personal beliefs - not the overall quality of the product.


 
  
 I've never heard a Cavalli amp, but I certainly agree with you. Just because a manufacturer is constantly trying to push its own envelope doesn't seem a good reason for avoiding its products at any given time. Seems to me that Cavalli's passion for achieving the best possible result at particular price points is a positive reason to buy from that manufacturer.
  
 Of course, if anyone wants perfection, just get a Feliks Elise


----------



## JamieMcC

I have been using the Bottlehead Mainline for just over a year now with my hd800 and never get tired of how it sounds. Each and every time I listen it just makes me grin and sets the toes tapping its a amazing amp and a steal at $1200 I have it paired with the Leema Accoustics Elements dac (£1200) which was a significant improvement over the Eastern Electric dac I had been using previously.


----------



## Peti

I'm curious if a cable with audeze termination can be used for the hd800? In other words the connectors are identical on those two models?


----------



## lukeap69

peti said:


> I'm curious if a cable with audeze termination can be used for the hd800? In other words the connectors are identical on those two models?




Nope. HD800 connectors are different.


----------



## Peti

Hmmm, I want to buy a cable for my hd800 and the buyer says it works on both models I mentioned above. Guess it's a scam then.


----------



## Energy

peti said:


> Hmmm, I want to buy a cable for my hd800 and the buyer says it works on both models I mentioned above. Guess it's a scam then.


 
  
 The connectors are completely different.


----------



## Peti

Thank you guys. I just wasn't sure. ******* scammers.


----------



## johnjen

Some cable makers use adapters to match the headphone to their cable.
 This allows them to make just one main cable but have several adapters for use with several different headphones.
  
 JJ


----------



## longbowbbs

HD800 on the left, Audeze LCD-X on the right


----------



## bearFNF

peti said:


> Thank you guys. I just wasn't sure. ******* scammers.


 

 I bought my "Q" French silk with Audeze connectors on the cable and adaptors for use with HD800 and HIFiMan.


----------



## Peti

Thank you again. Here's a pic from the ad. It looks like Audeze to me...
  

  
 He is ok with paypal with receipt (not gifted). I asked him to send me a pic with the cable attached to his LCD and another one attached to the HD800. His answer:
  
 "I can send a pic with it connected to my LCD-2s; however, I do not own the HD800s, but the sticker on the bag for the cables explicitly states it is compatible with the HD800s."
  
 He never mentioned any adapters in the deal.


----------



## Peti

bearfnf said:


> I bought my "Q" French silk with Audeze connectors on the cable and adaptors for use with HD800 and HIFiMan.


 

 Been trying to find an adaptor like you mentioned but can't really find any...Are those available separately somewhere?
  
 Thanks


----------



## bearFNF

peti said:


> Been trying to find an adaptor like you mentioned but can't really find any...Are those available separately somewhere?
> 
> Thanks


 

 Try here: http://www.q-audio.com/home/


----------



## Peti

bearfnf said:


> Try here: http://www.q-audio.com/home/


 

 Got it, thank you!


----------



## longbowbbs

Just to be clear, the Audeze connector and the HD800 are completely different. An adapter is required to use the same cable with both.


----------



## Peti

Yep, just clarified the issue with seller; he was wrong as the termination of the cable is indeed Audeze. Thanks for everyone helping to sort this out.


----------



## longbowbbs

peti said:


> Yep, just clarified the issue with seller; he was wrong as the termination of the cable is indeed Audeze. Thanks for everyone helping to sort this out.


----------



## vc1187

Just received my Liquid Gold this weekend.
  
 This pairing is outstanding and easily one of the best amplifiers I have heard for the HD800


----------



## Xeculus

vc1187 said:


> Just received my Liquid Gold this weekend.
> 
> This pairing is outstanding and easily one of the best amplifiers I have heard for the HD800


 
  
 Congrats! Very jealous.
  
 Any comparisons or impressions with your Stratus and ZD?


----------



## 13713

vc1187 said:


> Just received my Liquid Gold this weekend.
> 
> This pairing is outstanding and easily one of the best amplifiers I have heard for the HD800




Very nice. That is a keeper.


----------



## Youth

vc1187 said:


> Just received my Liquid Gold this weekend.
> 
> This pairing is outstanding and easily one of the best amplifiers I have heard for the HD800


 
  
 Now you've got both Eddie Current Zana Deux _and _LAu. Boy I'm jealous!


----------



## vc1187

xeculus said:


> Congrats! Very jealous.
> 
> Any comparisons or impressions with your Stratus and ZD?


 

 They all sound different with the HD800, but IMO the Stratus and LAu are in a league above the ZD.
 The ZD still sounds great with the HD800, but I'd consider the Stratus and LAu exceptional.
  
 The ZD has an airy presentation with good focus on vocals, but with a less impactful bass.  The airiness often leads to more of an ethereal presentation that sounds very impressive on first listen, but over time lacks the engagement of the other two.  I also find the ZD to have a brighter sound signature than the other two, and be a little less precise at micro detail retrieval.
  
 The Stratus has a very engaging and seductive sound signature.  Music has the most emotion and presence while having very good detail retrieval.  Treble is very well controlled and sounds smoother than the ZD.  Bass extends as far as it does with the ZD, but is better textured and does not lack impact.  It is very dynamic when the track calls for it, but can also cater to points in the track that call for delicacy, which is probably what gives it that extra emotion.  Female vocals are to absolutely die for on the Stratus.  While the soundstage is not quite the size of the projected soundstage of the ZD, it still feels just right to strike the perfect balance between an intimate and impressive sound.
  
 Now finally to the LAu.  The LAu has the cleanest and most precise sound of the three, which isn't surprising considering its circuit (non-tube).  It has the most controlled treble, with (no pun intended) the most 'liquid' transients.  I feel like it is also the least fatiguing of the three due to its superb control over the upper frequencies.  It has a very powerful and dynamic sound, while NEVER sounding fatiguing.  While it doesn't quite have the same _seductive_ sound signature and convey emotion that the Stratus does, it does succeed in sounding VERY natural.  Upon first listen up to the extra 10 hours that I've put on the amp, I knew it was special when I couldn't think of a single real shortcoming.
  
 These are just very shortened and generalized impressions, but highlight the key points, strengths, and weaknesses of each amp when paired with the HD800, IMO and IME.
  
 Below are a few pictures for those that love vacuum tubes as much as I do:


----------



## Youth

vc1187 said:


> They all sound different with the HD800, but IMO the Stratus and LAu are in a league above the ZD.
> The ZD still sounds great with the HD800, but I'd consider the Stratus and LAu exceptional.
> 
> The ZD has an airy presentation with good focus on vocals, but with a less impactful bass.  The airiness often leads to more of an ethereal presentation that sounds very impressive on first listen, but over time lacks the engagement of the other two.  I also find the ZD to have a brighter sound signature than the other two, and be a little less precise at micro detail retrieval.
> ...


 
  
 Reading this confirms that I made the right decision going with Cavalli. Have you tried LAu with HD650 yet?


----------



## vc1187

youth said:


> Reading this confirms that I made the right decision going with Cavalli. Have you tried LAu with HD650 yet?


 
 Yes, and it's also a great pairing.  Smooth, dynamic, punchy, and still very pleasant to listen to.


----------



## deuter

vc1187 said:


> Yes, and it's also a great pairing.  Smooth, dynamic, punchy, and still very pleasant to listen to.




What driver tubes have you tried with the ZD, from personal experience the ZD shapes up extremely well with decent driver tunes and not to forget the DAC.
For people reading recommendations please ensure you compare the whole chain.
Just because something sounds organic with one source does not mean it will be the same for you.


----------



## vc1187

deuter said:


> What driver tubes have you tried with the ZD, from personal experience the ZD shapes up extremely well with decent driver tunes and not to forget the DAC.
> For people reading recommendations please ensure you compare the whole chain.
> Just because something sounds organic with one source does not mean it will be the same for you.


 
 That's interesting that you mention this, considering on the ZD thread in this post of yours, you said all driver tubes on the ZD cause it to sound the same and for anyone looking at rolling the driver tube for the Zana Deux to take recommendations with grain of salt.
  
 I have been through many 6SL7 tubes, from NOS to current production for the ZD.  I speak for the ZD original version, not the SE or the S, and I speak only for what I hear, not what others (including yourself) may hear.  IMO, the RCA 5691 is the most well-rounded, and best driver tube with the HD800.
  
 I'm using the same DAC for all 3 amps I have listed above, so if there is variance due to DAC to amp synergy, then that is un-related, as I am strictly talking about Amp to HD800 synergy.  For the record, I have tried the Aurlic Vega as DAC for these amps except for the LAu, and my opinion remains unchanged on where they stand.
  
 As I mentioned a few times in my post of impressions above, these are my opinions based on my experiences.


----------



## deuter

vc1187 said:


> That's interesting that you mention this, considering on the ZD thread in this post of yours, you said all driver tubes on the ZD cause it to sound the same and for anyone looking at rolling the driver tube for the Zana Deux to take recommendations with grain of salt.
> 
> I have been through many 6SL7 tubes, from NOS to current production for the ZD.  I speak for the ZD original version, not the SE or the S, and I speak only for what I hear, not what others (including yourself) may hear.  IMO, the RCA 5691 is the most well-rounded, and best driver tube with the HD800.
> 
> ...




That post of mine on the Zana Deux was on a tiring day, you know the days we have when even MP3 sounds like flac.

Anyway Iam not doubting your finding a single bit as I haven't heard the Stratus or the Lau.

All Iam saying is something will sound lean or trebly not so much because of the amp but the DAC.
It's very possible that the DAC is on the leaner side and hence does no favours for the Zana Deux.

As for the vega that's absolutely true.


----------



## Evshrug

Well, it is also entirely possible that the Stratus and LAu simply have the capability of outperforming the ZD! But, they are different price points, so there is room for choice and personal budget/decisions.


----------



## jsgraha

deuter said:


> That post of mine on the Zana Deux was on a tiring day, you know the days we have when even MP3 sounds like flac.
> 
> Anyway Iam not doubting your finding a single bit as I haven't heard the Stratus or the Lau.
> 
> ...


 
 I bought my hd800 about 3-4 years ago, after listening them with a ZD. A ZD is truly an amazing amp with hd800!
 I think you should consider to investigate a SuperDupont mod by sorrodje to further improve its performance.
 It was truly an awesome mod!
  
 And if you happen to be in SouthEast suburb of Melbourne, please feel free to drop by to listen to stratus.


----------



## Mahdi8

jsgraha said:


> I bought my hd800 about 3-4 years ago, after listening them with a ZD. A ZD is truly an amazing amp with hd800!
> I think you should consider to investigate a SuperDupont mod by sorrodje to further improve its performance.
> It was truly an awesome mod!
> 
> And if you happen to be in SouthEast suburb of Melbourne, please feel free to drop by to listen to stratus.


 
 jsgraha have you got your HD800 modded? Would be ineterested on trying a modded one before trying it on mine.


----------



## jsgraha

mahdi8 said:


> jsgraha have you got your HD800 modded? Would be ineterested on trying a modded one before trying it on mine.




Yes, I had the SD mod installed already for about two months. It was quite easy to install and take them off. I had tried the original mod which based on shure tips, but didn't like it unfortunately.

And yes, you may try mine. Maybe we could follow this on pm


----------



## deuter

jsgraha said:


> I bought my hd800 about 3-4 years ago, after listening them with a ZD. A ZD is truly an amazing amp with hd800!
> I think you should consider to investigate a SuperDupont mod by sorrodje to further improve its performance.
> It was truly an awesome mod!
> 
> And if you happen to be in SouthEast suburb of Melbourne, please feel free to drop by to listen to stratus.




Iam not in the south east but can definitely pay you a visit.
How about next Saturday ?


----------



## Hansotek

vc1187 said:


> They all sound different with the HD800, but IMO the Stratus and LAu are in a league above the ZD.
> The ZD still sounds great with the HD800, but I'd consider the Stratus and LAu exceptional.
> 
> The ZD has an airy presentation with good focus on vocals, but with a less impactful bass.  The airiness often leads to more of an ethereal presentation that sounds very impressive on first listen, but over time lacks the engagement of the other two.  I also find the ZD to have a brighter sound signature than the other two, and be a little less precise at micro detail retrieval.
> ...



I think I just thought this the other day and didn't type it, but I totally agree on your assessments of the Stratus and LAu. Especially the part about the Stratus and female vocals - I'm not sure there is an amp out there that can top it in that department. Just pure emotion and beauty. And now you know the power of the LAu, as well. That treble! That soundstage! Those dynamics! The combo is just so transparent and real!


----------



## vc1187

hansotek said:


> I think I just thought this the other day and didn't type it, but I totally agree on your assessments of the Stratus and LAu. Especially the part about the Stratus and female vocals - I'm not sure there is an amp out there that can top it in that department. Just pure emotion and beauty. And now you know the power of the LAu, as well. That treble! That soundstage! Those dynamics! The combo is just so transparent and real!


 
 Right?  It's hard to pick a favorite when what you're hearing out of both amps is simply stunning.  My purchase of the LAu was more of a segway towards purchasing the HEK in the near future, but it certainly has not failed to provide a jaw-dropping experience with the HD800.  Without a doubt, the best SS amp I've heard for the HD800, and that includes the Headamp GSX Mk2, which I found to be a bit tilted towards treble for my liking.


----------



## musicman666

i have an audeze deckard amp with an hd800 set of headphones and i am very happy with the overall sound... 
  
 i was trying to link up a REL t9 sub woofer to the phono line out on the back of the deckard so that i could feel the bass but i was disappointed  to see that the deckard line out only outputs when the headphones are not plugged in.
  
 the source is a pc windows7 computer ....usb out....i listen a lot to tidal.
  
 can anyone recommend a way of getting around this problem ..thanks....


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

DavidMahler asserts in his Battle of the Flagships that the early HD800 has a fuller tone and a later one has greater instrument separation, and more airiness. I have SN 6311 and am curious if anyone can say for certain whether that's "early" or "late" HD800.


----------



## jhljhl

vc1187 said:


> Right?  It's hard to pick a favorite when what you're hearing out of both amps is simply stunning.  My purchase of the LAu was more of a segway towards purchasing the HEK in the near future, but it certainly has not failed to provide a jaw-dropping experience with the HD800.  Without a doubt, the best SS amp I've heard for the HD800, and that includes the Headamp GSX Mk2, which I found to be a bit tilted towards treble for my liking.



I liked the LAu with the Abyss and worked well with hd800. I wonder how it compares to liquid crimson and glass... haven't heard those.


----------



## Solarium

xeculus said:


> Here's a list of the current most widely regarded top amps for the HD800 by price bracket:
> 
> *$499 and below*
> Schiit Vali 2
> ...


 
 Awesome list! So I don't understand all this hype about the liquid carbon. I mean, is there a noticeable improvement over my Crack w/ speedball and the TS5998 and CBS/Hytron 5814A tubes, if using an unbalanced SE output? Has anyone done a direct comparison with the Crack with good tubes? It has a much smaller footprint and I don't have to play around with tubes, so if it's an indeed an "upgrade" of some sort I would definitely like to switch over especially it cost just a bit more for a used one than my crack with the tubes.


----------



## musicman666

musicman666 said:


> i have an audeze deckard amp with an hd800 set of headphones and i am very happy with the overall sound...
> 
> i was trying to link up a REL t9 sub woofer to the phono line out on the back of the deckard so that i could feel the bass but i was disappointed  to see that the deckard line out only outputs when the headphones are not plugged in.
> 
> ...


 
 ok stand down guys...  audeze replied to this question..problem sorted.
  
 i have to say the sub woofer with the hd800 is a very good combination....!!!
  
 going forward i cant see how i can now listen without the sub...  the missing piece of the jigsaw.


----------



## Hansotek

solarium said:


> Awesome list! So I don't understand all this hype about the liquid carbon. I mean, is there a noticeable improvement over my Crack w/ speedball and the TS5998 and CBS/Hytron 5814A tubes, if using an unbalanced SE output? Has anyone done a direct comparison with the Crack with good tubes? It has a much smaller footprint and I don't have to play around with tubes, so if it's an indeed an "upgrade" of some sort I would definitely like to switch over especially it cost just a bit more for a used one than my crack with the tubes.



If you're just doing an unbalanced output and you have good tubes in the Crack, it's not going to be much of an upgrade for you. The LC is designed to really excel in balanced mode.


----------



## Hansotek

Actually though, speaking of amps that are really good with the HD800 in that price range, the Arist Audio Heron 5 is on Massdrop right now and is one buyer away from hitting $749. https://www.massdrop.com/buy/airist-audio-heron-5-amplifier

You may not have heard of this one, as it was designed by some geeky young geniuses (they're from MIT or something) who know a lot about engineering and very little about marketing... So they're new, and not quite a household name, but the product is very, very legit indeed. I sat down with these guys and had a nice long chat and a demo of the Heron 5 at CanJam SoCal. I came away very impressed with what the Heron 5 offers at $1,000. It definitely sounds like it could retail in the $1,500 range. For $749 it is a great bargain.


----------



## listen4joy

this list is great, i just bought vali2 and is sound really good, i dont know if 1200-3000$ amps will justify the price difffrence, i dont think it will be night and day diffrence, i will bet max 25% performence wise, but at price ratio its 20 times more.


----------



## MWSVette

hansotek said:


> Actually though, speaking of amps that are really good with the HD800 in that price range, the Arist Audio Heron 5 is on Massdrop right now and is one buyer away from hitting $749. https://www.massdrop.com/buy/airist-audio-heron-5-amplifier
> 
> You may not have heard of this one, as it was designed by some geeky young geniuses (they're from MIT or something) who know a lot about engineering and very little about marketing... So they're new, and not quite a household name, but the product is very, very legit indeed. I sat down with these guys and had a nice long chat and a demo of the Heron 5 at CanJam SoCal. I came away very impressed with what the Heron 5 offers at $1,000. It definitely sounds like it could retail in the $1,500 range. For $749 it is a great bargain.


 
 I agree 100%.  I bought one and using it right now.  It really makes the HD-800 shine.
  
 The original MSRP was $1999.00.  That was too high.  For $749.00 it is a great amp.


----------



## JamieMcC

solarium said:


> Awesome list! So I don't understand all this hype about the liquid carbon. I mean, is there a noticeable improvement over my Crack w/ speedball and the TS5998 and CBS/Hytron 5814A tubes, if using an unbalanced SE output? Has anyone done a direct comparison with the Crack with good tubes? It has a much smaller footprint and I don't have to play around with tubes, so if it's an indeed an "upgrade" of some sort I would definitely like to switch over especially it cost just a bit more for a used one than my crack with the tubes.


 
  
 Compared to the BH Mainline listening to the HD800 with the Crack is like sat listening to a speaker system with cardboard box over your head! The Mainline is just on a whole different level.
  
 Just saying


----------



## Solarium

jamiemcc said:


> Compared to the BH Mainline listening to the HD800 with the Crack is like sat listening to a speaker system with cardboard box over your head! The Mainline is just on a whole different level.
> 
> Just saying


 

 Really? I had no idea mainline is so much better. How does it compare to other amps around the same price like Feliks Elise? You can't tube roll with the Mainline right?


----------



## vc1187

solarium said:


> Really? I had no idea mainline is so much better. How does it compare to other amps around the same price like Feliks Elise? You can't tube roll with the Mainline right?


 
 I don't doubt that the Mainline is better than the Crack w/speedball (I will have the pleasure of hearing a Mainline within the coming month), but to the extent of his comment about the cardboard box over your head is clearly exaggeration.  Even with the Liquid Gold, which I consider to be ultra transparent and resolving, I can't say that about the Crack.


----------



## JamieMcC

vc1187 said:


> I don't doubt that the Mainline is better than the Crack w/speedball (I will have the pleasure of hearing a Mainline within the coming month), but to the extent of his comment about the cardboard box over your head is clearly exaggeration.  Even with the Liquid Gold, which I consider to be ultra transparent and resolving, I can't say that about the Crack


 
  
 See if you can find a Crack and speedball with the stock 6080 and 12au7 tubes it ships with to take with you when you get to spend some time listening to the Mainline and judge for yourself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I was and still am a massive Crack fan by the way they are a blast to build ((7 so far) and listen to just think the stock Crack + speedball while it will sound good with hd800 its a fair way off the performance they are capable of a few mods and tweaks along with some nice tubes can all add up to make a significent improvment.
  
 I wanted to reference the sound I was getting from my modified Crack so built a stock one to compare later adding the speedball.  I guess the modified Crack ran to about $850ish looking at and taking into account current  premium tubes prices.
  
 I also have a heavily modified Bottlehead Sex which I thought was a significant improvement over the modified Crack when it comes to soundstage and resolution.
  
 The Mainline well it just plain smokes both there is a across the board increase in refinement, frequency extension, detail retrieval, texturing, midrange presence along with realistic instrument tone/timbre its easily noticeable. Even after a year now it continues to impress on every listen with the HD800.  Give the Mainline a capable source and it will let the music shine.
  
 Check out Loquah's comparison thread for some detailed info on how they compare
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/683012/bottlehead-amplifier-discussion-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline
  
 Stock and custom Cracks side by side
  

  

  
 Running some nice tubes
  

  
 Sex
  

  
 Mainline (fitted with 10uf teflon capacitors)


----------



## vc1187

I have seen most of these pics and have read some of your threads on modding the bottlehead amps.  As I said, _I don't doubt that the Mainline sounds better than the Crack_, nor am I doubting your experience with Bottlehead products, but saying the Crack sounds like listening to speakers with a cardboard box over your head compared to the mainline implies that it simply sounds bad.
 While great amps for the HD800 sound better, they never make cheaper amps that synergize well with the HD800 sound bad, IMO.


----------



## JamieMcC

vc1187 said:


> I have seen most of these pics and have read some of your threads on modding the bottlehead amps.  As I said, _I don't doubt that the Mainline sounds better than the Crack_, nor am I doubting your experience with Bottlehead products, but saying the Crack sounds like listening to speakers with a cardboard box over your head compared to the mainline implies that it simply sounds bad.
> While great amps for the HD800 sound better, they never make cheaper amps that synergies well with the HD800 sound bad, IMO.


 
  
 I edited my post above whilst you were posting and added
  
 "See if you can find a Crack and speedball with the stock 6080 and 12au7 tubes it ships with to take with you when you get to spend some time listening to the Mainline and judge for yourself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was and still am a massive Crack fan by the way they are a blast to build ((7 so far) and listen to just think the stock Crack + speedball while it will sound good with hd800 its a fair way off the performance they are capable of a few mods and tweaks along with some nice tubes can all add up to make a significent improvment."


----------



## jibzilla

jamiemcc said:


> I edited my post above whilst you were posting and added
> 
> "See if you can find a Crack and speedball with the stock 6080 and 12au7 tubes it ships with to take with you when you get to spend some time listening to the Mainline and judge for yourself
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree and what's really scary is the Stratus is a significant step up from the Mainline and the Teton a significant step up on the Stratus. Only the Wheatfield ha2 bested the mainline at $1k.


----------



## Thenewguy007

jibzilla said:


> I agree and what's really scary is the Stratus is a significant step up from the Mainline and the Teton a significant step up on the Stratus. Only the Wheatfield ha2 bested the mainline at $1k.


 
  
 Were you able to test all 4 amps?
  
 A lot of people have said after a certain price point, the amps don't make the headphones sound better than one another, rather just better at one or two specific things.


----------



## vc1187

thenewguy007 said:


> Were you able to test all 4 amps?
> 
> A lot of people have said after a certain price point, the amps don't make the headphones sound better than one another, rather just better at one or two specific things.


 

 This is along the lines of how I hear things, however I have no place here saying that other people can't depict differences more acutely than myself.
 Just want to say that for those that are looking to upgrade, beware of words in impressions that tend to exaggerate differences, such as 'significant' or 'much better', as those impressions are the ones that tend to leave you high hopes and higher expectations that may not be met.


----------



## Hansotek

vc1187 said:


> This is along the lines of how I hear things, however I have no place here saying that other people can't depict differences more acutely than myself.
> Just want to say that for those that are looking to upgrade, beware of words in impressions that tend to exaggerate differences, such as 'significant' or 'much better', as those impressions are the ones that tend to leave you high hopes and higher expectations that may not be met.


 
  
 The problem is that people jump into hyperbole on everything - not just incremental improvements. I would be willing to bet the Bottlehead Crack has been called the "best amp for the HD800" dozens of times. And the the "best amp for the HD650" hundreds of times. If one took these write-ups literally, there would be no distinguishing the Bottlehead Crack from the Liquid Gold. Those of us who have had a chance to hear many amps (and many different levels of amps) know better, but we're still locked into this hyperbolic paradigm. I'm afraid this problem just is what it is, as annoying as that might be.


----------



## jibzilla

thenewguy007 said:


> Were you able to test all 4 amps?
> 
> A lot of people have said after a certain price point, the amps don't make the headphones sound better than one another, rather just better at one or two specific things.


 
  
 Oh yeah I tested them. Owned 3 out of the 4 and got a private listening sesh with the Stratus. There is no certain price point to me, just synergy. Synergy with amplifier is awfully key for the hd800's to me. Way more than any other headphone I have tried. I could point out some really expensive amps where the hd800 sounded awfully lackluster but that might start a brew haha.


----------



## DavidA

jibzilla said:


> Oh yeah I tested them. Owned 3 out of the 4 and got a private listening sesh with the Stratus. There is no certain price point to me, just synergy. Synergy with amplifier is awfully key for the hd800's to me. Way more than any other headphone I have tried. I could point out some really expensive amps where the hd800 sounded awfully lackluster but that might start a brew haha.


 
 I agree with this point after hearing some great amps that don't pair well with the HD-800 but do great with other headphones.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

@vc1187 and @Hansotek: I stand corrected. Thank you for making me read into Cavalli Audio. An interesting read for sure!  And most certainly a better perspective. 
  
 You got me on the upgrade urge as well. I know I'm contaminated... if only there were pills for that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Because yes, I'd probably keep wondering: Alex improved his design, and not even marginally apparently. What on earth am I missing out on? Screwed up thing is I live in Belgium, so hardly a chance to try it out first. 
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


xeculus said:


> Here's a list of the current most widely regarded top amps for the HD800 by price bracket:
> 
> *$499 and below*
> Schiit Vali 2
> ...


 
  
 Where would a Moth 2A3 fit in this list? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (http://www.head-fi.org/t/786553/moth-2a3-second-version)


----------



## ezekiel77

I'm new to desktop setups, and because of space issues I'd rather have a DAC/amp combo unit rather than a stack for my cans.
  
 Currently looking into the Master 11 as my first choice to power the HD800.
  
 Any other DAC/amp units I should be looking at?
  
 Thanks for your time.


----------



## sheldaze

ezekiel77 said:


> I'm new to desktop setups, and because of space issues I'd rather have a DAC/amp combo unit rather than a stack for my cans.
> 
> Currently looking into the Master 11 as my first choice to power the HD800.
> 
> ...


 
 I heard the NFB-27H. It was amazing with HD800.
 I think Master 11 should too be amazing.


----------



## vc1187

coldassault said:


> Where would a Moth 2A3 fit in this list?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 A buddy of mine owns a Moth 2A3 (first edition), and has brought it to 3 of the meets I've attended in North Carolina.  Here's a link to the latest one with impressions (http://www.head-fi.org/t/802136/carolina-canfest-5-meet-impressions-pictures-etc)
  
 I had a chance this time to compare it to the ZD and Stratus at this meet.  IMO, it plays in the same league as the Stratus, with slightly less lushness in comparison to the Stratus.  Overall, they sound very similar, but how good they sound is also based on the pair of 2A3s you decide to use with each headphone. His Moth 2A3 was running the legendary RCA 2A3 Mono Plates, which sound fantastic!
  
 It falls in the price bracket of* $3000 and up*


----------



## longbowbbs

The ALO Audio Studio Six is missing from the greater than $3000 list. The best pairing with the HD800's I have heard.


----------



## Hansotek

ezekiel77 said:


> I'm new to desktop setups, and because of space issues I'd rather have a DAC/amp combo unit rather than a stack for my cans.
> 
> Currently looking into the Master 11 as my first choice to power the HD800.
> 
> ...



If space is an issue, you probably shouldn't be looking into the Master 11. It's a pretty large piece of equipment.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

vc1187 said:


> A buddy of mine owns a Moth 2A3 (first edition), and has brought it to 3 of the meets I've attended in North Carolina.  Here's a link to the latest one with impressions (http://www.head-fi.org/t/802136/carolina-canfest-5-meet-impressions-pictures-etc)
> 
> I had a chance this time to compare it to the ZD and Stratus at this meet.  IMO, it plays in the same league as the Stratus, with slightly less lushness in comparison to the Stratus.  Overall, they sound very similar, but how good they sound is also based on the pair of 2A3s you decide to use with each headphone. His Moth 2A3 was running the legendary RCA 2A3 Mono Plates, which sound fantastic!
> 
> It falls in the price bracket of* $3000 and up*


 
  
 Maybe harder to recall and to analyze in short meet listening sessions... But did you notice any obvious differences in technicalities, other than the tonal characteristics?


----------



## nepherte

coldassault said:


> You got me on the upgrade urge as well. I know I'm contaminated... if only there were pills for that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 At  least you had a chance to audition my Liquid Gold  Why not join me and @bmichels at Canjam London?


----------



## Peti

Just listening this Motörhead song through my HD800! Happy Memorial Day everyone!
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw02WwiUD8Q


----------



## ezekiel77

hansotek said:


> If space is an issue, you probably shouldn't be looking into the Master 11. It's a pretty large piece of equipment.




Thanks for the headsup. I should've mentioned earlier that the space issue concerns stacking. It can fit one device snugly but that's it. I'll have to measure the space before doing any testing.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

nepherte said:


> At  least you had a chance to audition my Liquid Gold  Why not join me and @bmichels at Canjam London?


 
  
 True that... we should take it through another round 
 Didn't you order a GS-X MK2 either?.How did that pan out?


----------



## Solarium

hansotek said:


> Actually though, speaking of amps that are really good with the HD800 in that price range, the Arist Audio Heron 5 is on Massdrop right now and is one buyer away from hitting $749. https://www.massdrop.com/buy/airist-audio-heron-5-amplifier
> 
> You may not have heard of this one, as it was designed by some geeky young geniuses (they're from MIT or something) who know a lot about engineering and very little about marketing... So they're new, and not quite a household name, but the product is very, very legit indeed. I sat down with these guys and had a nice long chat and a demo of the Heron 5 at CanJam SoCal. I came away very impressed with what the Heron 5 offers at $1,000. It definitely sounds like it could retail in the $1,500 range. For $749 it is a great bargain.


 
 I'm considering the Heron 5 as well. How does it compare to the rest of the list of the recommended amps of each price bracket, specifically other solid state amps like the Black Widow, Ragnarok, or even the Liquid Carbon? It's absolutely humongous, is it heads and shoulders above the Liquid Carbon?
  
 Also, are there any comparisons of the Mainline with the similar priced tube amps like Elise or the Torpedo III?


----------



## Hansotek

solarium said:


> I'm considering the Heron 5 as well. How does it compare to the rest of the list of the recommended amps of each price bracket, specifically other solid state amps like the Black Widow, Ragnarok, or even the Liquid Carbon? It's absolutely humongous, is it heads and shoulders above the Liquid Carbon?
> 
> Also, are there any comparisons of the Mainline with the similar priced tube amps like Elise or the Torpedo III?



That's a tough question. IMHO it is slightly better than the Ragnarok and the Carbon (depending on what sound you are going for - the H5 is smoother, the LC is more impactful). 

I haven't heard the Black Widow, Mainline, Torpedo or Elise, so I can't say much there. At $750, I would imagine it is the best value as far as how much sound you are getting for your dollar, but again, I can't conclusively say without having spent time with the others. I thought it was too much when they released it at $2K. $1,500 seems like a fair value. $750 is just an outright steal.


----------



## mtoc

Hey folks, I have a silly question, had anyone tried the Audeze headphone cable (the $80 one, you also need to tweak the connectors) on the HD800?


----------



## DavidA

mtoc said:


> Hey folks, I have a silly question, had anyone tried the Audeze headphone cable (the $80 one, you also need to tweak the connectors) on the HD800?


 

 Different connectors so you will need to either change the connectors on the Audeze cable to the HD-800 connectors or get an adapter that goes from HD-800 to mini-XLR.
 FWIW I don't think the Audeze cable is that good, much better and cheaper after market stuff out there.


----------



## jhljhl

upgrade to lcd-x/xc?
  
 http://www.audeze.com/lcd-promotion


----------



## 13713

jhljhl said:


> upgrade to lcd-x/xc?
> 
> http://www.audeze.com/lcd-promotion




Honestly curious as to why?


----------



## ezekiel77

jhljhl said:


> upgrade to lcd-x/xc?
> 
> http://www.audeze.com/lcd-promotion


 
  
 I'd say they're sidegrades. Fuller/richer/intimate/warmer? LCD. Thinner/detailed/wider/brighter? HD800. They complement each other.


----------



## jhljhl

ezekiel77 said:


> I'd say they're sidegrades. Fuller/richer/intimate/warmer? LCD. Thinner/detailed/wider/brighter? HD800. They complement each other.


 

 I've had hd800 & lcd2/3f and agree they are complimentary - I never heard lcd-x/xc.


----------



## Xeculus

Fully agree. HD800 vs LCD2/3 is more preference than anything. Auditioning is highly recommended, you might find you prefer one over the other.

I always thought I was a fan of the dark/warm/full sound until I tried the 800.


----------



## DavidA

jhljhl said:


> upgrade to lcd-x/xc?
> 
> http://www.audeze.com/lcd-promotion


 

 I would say down grade after hearing the LCD-X but that just me and as others noted its more a sound signature preference.  To me the LCD-2 is the best bang for the buck but if you need something easy to drive then the LCD-X would be my choice over the HE-X for sound, for comfort the HE-X wins easily.


----------



## mtoc

Anyone also changed these?


----------



## ClintonL

Anyone know how to keep the cable from tangling? Mine keeps tangling when i untangle it it just naturally curls up again all the time.
  
 Cheers


----------



## potkettleblack

clintonl said:


> Anyone know how to keep the cable from tangling? Mine keeps tangling when i untangle it it just naturally curls up again all the time.
> 
> Cheers


----------



## DavidA

clintonl said:


> Anyone know how to keep the cable from tangling? Mine keeps tangling when i untangle it it just naturally curls up again all the time.
> 
> Cheers


 

 you can try a heat gun but be careful, if not a hair dryer.  If that doesn't work, get or build another cable and keep the original as a spare or if you ever sell them you will have the original cable to sell with them.


----------



## johnjen

mtoc said:


> Anyone also changed these?


 
 I have done this to a pair of 700's, but my 800's are hardwired straight from the cable itself.
 Which I much prefer.
  
 JJ


----------



## GodsInHisHeaven

I am looking for a good way to warm up my HD 800 a little more. I think I am a litte allergic to the 6KHz spike and can get some sort of low volume tinnitus for a while. Something like that never happend to my HE560, K712 and HD558 before.
  
 Would a Little Dot MK3 with some nice Tubes (Mullard M8100 / CV4010) do  the trick?
 The MJ2 is also within my budget reach... but is it really so much better?
  
 I already put a SuperDupont Resonator and the HD800 mod into my HD 800 and EQ a good 3 DB @ 6KHz.


----------



## DavidA

godsinhisheaven said:


> I am looking for a good way to warm up my HD 800 a little more. I think I am a litte allergic to the 6KHz spike and can get some sort of low volume tinnitus for a while. Something like that never happend to my HE560, K712 and HD558 before.
> 
> Would a Little Dot MK3 with some nice Tubes (Mullard M8100 / CV4010) do  the trick?
> 
> I already put a SuperDupont Resonator and the HD800 mod into my HD 800 and EQ a good 3 DB @ 6KHz.


 
 While a warm tube might help I don't think it will be enough based on what you have already done.  Another could be the way the HD-800 presents the highs, to me the HE-560 is brighter but the highs never bother me while the HD-800 highs can bother me once in a while. 
  
 Hope other here can give you other options/advice.


----------



## Sorrodje

godsinhisheaven said:


> I am looking for a good way to warm up my HD 800 a little more. I think I am a litte allergic to the 6KHz spike and can get some sort of low volume tinnitus for a while. Something like that never happend to my HE560, K712 and HD558 before.
> 
> Would a Little Dot MK3 with some nice Tubes (Mullard M8100 / CV4010) do  the trick?
> The MJ2 is also within my budget reach... but is it really so much better?
> ...


 
  
 IMO. you should give up with HD800 . you're wasting your time and there''re plenty of very good warmer/darker headphones on the market.


----------



## defbear

My set of hd800 phones developed very nice bass and the treble smoothed out but it took a year. Some say the hd800 never breaks in. I did purchase a Norne Draug 2 headphone cable. Perhaps that made me use the phones more. I have the microZOTL 2 amp. It is a great amp and pairs wonderfully with the hd800. But I agree with @sorrodje. Get a different headphone. So many posts on How to Solve the hd800. The ZMF Omni phones I have are rich and detailed with great bass. I was shocked how much I like them. They come burned in. There a lot choices.


----------



## DavidA

@Sorrodje and @defbear, I didn't really want to say to give up the HD-800 but after thinking about it for a while it might be best in the long run since the op has already tried a few mods.


----------



## Sorrodje

At some point, trying to warm it up with amps , tubes or whatever is a waste of time and money. Even more when a HD650 is sooooo good on good rigs.   if mods , EQ aren't enough, why should he bother about anything else ? 
  
 My 2 cents.


----------



## DavidA

sorrodje said:


> At some point, trying to warm it up with amps , tubes or whatever is a waste of time and money. Even more when a HD650 is sooooo good on good rigs.   if mods , EQ aren't enough, why should he bother about anything else ?
> 
> My 2 cents.


 
 Agree with you 100%


----------



## 13713

The 800 has a unique sound. Love it or hate it there is no use trying to modify or change it. Best to go to another headphone if you don't like the 800.


----------



## Peti

Most demanding headphones ever in terms of that you have to build the whole system (source, cables, DAC, amp, etc) around the headphones to make them perform satisfactorily.


----------



## defbear

I can't seem to find how to edit my signature below so here's a list. I have, in order of purchase, lcd2-f, hd800, th900, ether-c and ZMF Omni. If I could only have one it would be my hd800 set. They pair up with my Liquid Carbon, Master 11 and OMG the microZOTL 2. My Sennheiser hdvd800 amp is perfect with the hd800. If you have a decent DAC to go with it, the Sennheiser hdvd600 is a natural as well. I take my hd800 and the ifi-idsd micro on vacations with the stock SE cable. I rarely use eq but I love the bass bump available on the idsd. I think there are some pretty good out of the box solutions for the original hd800.


----------



## vc1187

defbear said:


> I can't seem to find how to edit my signature below so here's a list. I have, in order of purchase, lcd2-f, hd800, th900, ether-c and ZMF Omni. If I could only have one it would be my hd800 set. They pair up with my Liquid Carbon, Master 11 and OMG the microZOTL 2. My Sennheiser hdvd800 amp is perfect with the hd800. If you have a decent DAC to go with it, the Sennheiser hdvd600 is a natural as well. I take my hd800 and the ifi-idsd micro on vacations with the stock SE cable. I rarely use eq but I love the bass bump available on the idsd. I think there are some pretty good out of the box solutions for the original hd800.




Which of those amps do you prefer the most with the HD800?


----------



## defbear

vc1187 said:


> Which of those amps do you prefer the most with the HD800?


Master 11 followed very very closely by the microZOTL. I haven't dived into my massive collection of tubes for the microZOTL yet though.


----------



## sheldaze

defbear said:


> Master 11 followed very very closely by the microZOTL. I haven't dived into my massive collection of tubes for the microZOTL yet though.


 
 Very, _very_ interesting!
  
 As I'm basically about to post something similar in a different thread, after listening today to Audio-GD NFB-27H, Simaudio Moon NEO 430HAD, and my MicroZOTL2.


----------



## mtoc

any updates, sheldaze?


----------



## defbear

sheldaze said:


> Very, _very_ interesting!
> 
> As I'm basically about to post something similar in a different thread, after listening today to Audio-GD NFB-27H, Simaudio Moon NEO 430HAD, and my MicroZOTL2.


where at?


----------



## Solarium

I'm surprised that the Mainline isn't on the top list of amps, as it's in the same bracket as the microZOTL2, since they are priced very similarly. The Mainline has some good reviews too. I just bought a prebuilt Mainline for an amazing price, so I'm contemplating its synergy compared to the other amps with much smaller footprints.


----------



## ph58

godsinhisheaven said:


> I am looking for a good way to warm up my HD 800 a little more. I think I am a litte allergic to the 6KHz spike and can get some sort of low volume tinnitus for a while. Something like that never happend to my HE560, K712 and HD558 before.
> 
> Would a Little Dot MK3 with some nice Tubes (Mullard M8100 / CV4010) do  the trick?
> The MJ2 is also within my budget reach... but is it really so much better?
> ...


 

 2 mods on your HD800 , and you have to EQ ?!!


----------



## koiloco

ph58 said:


> 2 mods on your HD800 , and you have to EQ ?!!


 
 +1.
  
 Maybe, it's time to realize HD800 = not for you?
  
 After a long time away,  I turned on my WA22, plugged in my stock HD800 and went thru multiple albums tonite.  Still pure magic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Then I switched to HE-6 and it was rock and rolling time.


----------



## ph58

koiloco said:


> +1.
> 
> Maybe, it's time to realize HD800 = not for you?
> 
> ...


 

 Mine is the HD800S !


----------



## koiloco

ph58 said:


> Mine is the HD800S !


 
 Ah.  I didn't know.  Still,  I don't think Dot MK3 will be the solution if you already EQ about 3db at the 6kHz.
 If you r looking to warm up the overall sound then yeah, a tube amp might just be the answer.
 Be careful with your selection though cuz tube amps + tube combo to maintain the bass level of the HD800(s) could be tricky.


----------



## AutumnCrown

Just got my HD800, coming from a HE 400i. Such a different experience! Right now I'm using the idsd micro as DAC and amp. Impressions:
  
 -The HD800's airiness seems almost excessive at times, like the instrument is so close I can feel the air coming from it. It's a very interesting sensation. The amp's 3D crossfeed switch tames that and also tames the soundstage on songs where it's a bit too unnaturally wide or separated.
  
 -Less of a black background than the 400i which isn't necessarily bad thing.
  
 -Neutral to the point where I miss the euphony of the 400i at times. On that I can crank up the volume and guitar riffs from tracks like like "Santeria" by Sublime and "Under the Bridge" by RHCP sounds thick and warm and satisfying, whereas on the HD800 if I crank up these songs, it just sounds too loud. Such is the price of neutrality and realism I suppose! Luckily I'm more of an acoustic and classical listener/generally pretentious d-bag.
  
 -What impresses me most on the HD800 are the two end of the FR. Bass and treble are simply exquisite. Bass slams and is on a whole other level of detail, texture, and weight. Same with treble; I finally understand what people mean when they talk about treble sparking... kind of. The mid range is good, although I do miss the body of the 400i at times. The HD800 is of course more detailed than the 400i overall, though there is a pleasant warmth to vocals with the 400i that is more elusive with the HD800.
  
 -In genres that tend to favor a warmer more relaxed sound, the two headphones trade blows from song to song. E.g. In Under the Bridge, I would give the edge to the 400i for body and voals, but for Scar Tissue there is a darkness to the guitar that becomes blurry on the 400i. 
  
 -In genres that favor neutrality such as classical, folk, and classic rock, the HD800 is generally better, often substantially. It's a more interesting sound signature in general, with more nuances and details. If the HD800 is like clockwork, the 400i is more like... um... an oil painting? But a slightly sloppy one.

 Will update as brain burn occurs.


----------



## koiloco

Gratz on your HD800.  It took me a long time and weeks of trial before deciding to buy my HD800.
 HE 400i and HD800 are really different HPs and can't be fairly compared to one another.  Your HD800 will be incredible with later amp/DAC upgrades.  Enjoy...


----------



## DavidA

@AutumnCrown, are you planning to keep your HE-400i?


----------



## AutumnCrown

davida said:


> @AutumnCrown, are you planning to keep your HE-400i?


 
 I'm not sure, I will have to see how brain burn-in goes.


----------



## AutumnCrown

koiloco said:


> Gratz on your HD800.  It took me a long time and weeks of trial before deciding to buy my HD800.
> HE 400i and HD800 are really different HPs and can't be fairly compared to one another.  Your HD800 will be incredible with later amp/DAC upgrades.  Enjoy...


 
 Thanks! Yeah they are so different. I definitely noticed an improvement upgrading from a Schiit Fulla to the idsd so I will not be surprised if another upgrade takes it up another notch.


----------



## sheldaze

mtoc said:


> any updates, sheldaze?


 


defbear said:


> where at?


 
 My apologies. Looking back, I understand what I said was confusing - I was posting in another thread, in regards to a meet I went to yesterday. The specific headphone I tested at the meet was the HE-1000, which is off-topic and should probably stay in its own thread.
  
 However, at the meet prior, I listened very closely to an HD800 (unmodified) on the Audio-GD NFB-27H. No glare - that is indeed a rare feat! Along with the fact that it uses Sabre DAC is quite amazing to me. Would love to hear comments on how the R2R in the Master 11 sounds.
  
 Similarly, a gentleman who recently started to attend our meets was questioning which amplifier to get. He owns an unmodified HD800. He is questioning does he buy an HD800S? But on an unmodified HD800 (the one he already owns), it is kind of hard to fault the Audio-GD sound. And I just thought it was interesting that @defbear owned both the Audio-GD and MicroZOTL2 and came to a similar conclusion.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

My HD800's achilles heel is solo piano. I might actually invest in some Audeze for that, as even the HE-6 doesn't render them with the tonal realism and acoustic heft that piano is supposed to have. Tried the EL-8 titanium edition at the apple store yesterday, and was quite impressed. Solo piano is just so profoundly (1) difficult to render and (2) different from an orchestra that getting cans specifically for them, at least until I invest in the SR-009, which seem to be able to do no wrong.


----------



## lukeap69

bosiemoncrieff said:


> My HD800's achilles heel is solo piano. I might actually invest in some Audeze for that, as even the HE-6 doesn't render them with the tonal realism and acoustic heft that piano is supposed to have. Tried the EL-8 titanium edition at the apple store yesterday, and was quite impressed. Solo piano is just so profoundly (1) difficult to render and (2) different from an orchestra that getting cans specifically for them, at least until I invest in the SR-009, which seem to be able to do no wrong.


 
 Can you give me a sample of a track of solo piano that you listen to? I would try it with my HD800 SD and Glenn OTL Darna amp. 
 Thanks.


----------



## AutumnCrown

defbear said:


> Master 11 followed very very closely by the microZOTL. I haven't dived into my massive collection of tubes for the microZOTL yet though.


 
 How would you qualitatively describe the difference in sound between the idsd micro and top amps? Sorry to ask this annoying question


----------



## defbear

autumncrown said:


> How would you qualitatively describe the difference in sound between the idsd micro and top amps? Sorry to ask this annoying question


Qualitatively? Purt ne'er close  PM sent


----------



## dogears

bosiemoncrieff said:


> My HD800's achilles heel is solo piano. I might actually invest in some Audeze for that, as even the HE-6 doesn't render them with the tonal realism and acoustic heft that piano is supposed to have. Tried the EL-8 titanium edition at the apple store yesterday, and was quite impressed. Solo piano is just so profoundly (1) difficult to render and (2) different from an orchestra that getting cans specifically for them, at least until I invest in the SR-009, which seem to be able to do no wrong.


 
 And recording the piano is another matter  but yes, you have to get the proper amp to make it sound 'correct' with the HD800.


----------



## GodsInHisHeaven

I don't want to derail this thread, but how are entry level Stax compared to the HD 800 in terms of brightness and bass.


----------



## DavidA

godsinhisheaven said:


> I don't want to derail this thread, but how are entry level Stax compared to the HD 800 in terms of brightness and bass.


 
 A broad question but as a whole these are what I've heard:  Lambda Pro, SR-L700, SR-507(IIRC) not as bright but more extended than HD-800 and better bass to me.


----------



## Sorrodje

Stax and HD800 are different.  I head SR-X07 ( 307 and 507 at least) as somewhat bright, with shouty mids, upfront/forward presentation , not so good imaging and soundstage. I definitely liked SR-507 bass though. Deep extension and nice slam  . 
  
 I measured and listened the SR-L700 a fews days ago and it's better. Pretty spot on FR, nicier soundstage and presentation, no more midrange shout. To be honest , i find the overall response very close to my HD800SD . HD800 (even modded is still slightly) is a tiny bit harsher in the treble and a tiny bit more recessed in Hig mids but overally , I could switch from one to another without any need of adjustement.  I still think the resolution is significantly better with the HD800.
  
 IMO and IME the HD800 (properly amped) competes with Omegas  more than with any Lambda I know.


----------



## drez

zoom25 said:


> Yellow tonality...now that's one I have never heard before.
> 
> What DAC were you using?




My only experience with GSX mkii has been from demo or meets, so might be worth to keep that in mind. One DAC was Yggy, the other Calyx Femto, as well as Invicta. All brightish DAC, but still a data point. Smoother DAC is probably needed. This should IMHO be a giant caveat when recommending the GSX mkii.


----------



## Zoom25

drez said:


> My only experience with GSX mkii has been from demo or meets, so might be worth to keep that in mind. One DAC was Yggy, the other Calyx Femto, as well as Invicta. All brightish DAC, but still a data point. Smoother DAC is probably needed. This should IMHO be a giant caveat when recommending the GSX mkii.


 
 Okay, I get what you're saying. I haven't heard any of those DACs, but can understand.


----------



## KopaZ

Q: do you guys take the dust cover (the blacky stuff covering driver and grill housing)? anybody did some measurement on hd800 with dust cover on and off?


----------



## Energy

kopaz said:


> Q: do you guys take the dust cover (the blacky stuff covering driver and grill housing)? anybody did some measurement on hd800 with dust cover on and off?


 
  
 I tried taking it off/on during countless occasions, but without it, the sound is a little sharp to my ears. I wonder what everyone's opinion is on this.


----------



## drez

It depends on how they are modified.  With stock I leave dust covers on.  With some felt ring mods I leave dust covers off.  With my current mod I leave dust covers on.


----------



## KopaZ

drez said:


> It depends on how they are modified.  With stock I leave dust covers on.  With some felt ring mods I leave dust covers off.  With my current mod I leave dust covers on.


 
 mine aren't modded, completely stock... unless spray paint jobs are a mod.


----------



## GodsInHisHeaven

I messed around very carefully with my HD 800 again and found my bothersome frequency spike ... 8 kHz.
 After I lowered this spike by a good 7 db (also -4db on the 6.1 kHz mark) I can tolerate the HD 800. 
  
 Could it be, that my DAC/AMP is to bright?
 I am using a modded STX 2 with Burson V5 Amps (http://www.bursonaudio.com/asus-xonar-essence-stx-upgraded-with-supreme-sound-v5-op-amps/) as my source. Is that the source of my problems?
 My HE 560 sounds rather good on that card tough. I am thinking of selling my HD 800 and getting the HE 1000.
 Basically I am looking for the HE 560 with a tad better bass and bigger soundstage. The HE 1000 is rather expensive though ...


----------



## Oldfella

I use the HD800,and the HEK..The HEK, to me,does have a slightly wider soundstage,also better instrument seperation. Please remember,these are my 76 year old ears.


----------



## vc1187

godsinhisheaven said:


> I messed around very carefully with my HD 800 again and found my bothersome frequency spike ... 8 kHz.
> After I lowered this spike by a good 7 db (also -4db on the 6.1 kHz mark) I can tolerate the HD 800.
> 
> Could it be, that my DAC/AMP is to bright?
> ...




HD800 is very picky to upstream gear (more so than the other two headphones you listed) so the Asus STX 2 is probably your issue.


----------



## GodsInHisHeaven

Well I could either upgrade my system with a MJ2 and keep the HD 800 or sell them and spend the money on a HE 1000 ... tough decision.


----------



## vc1187

godsinhisheaven said:


> Well I could either upgrade my system with a MJ2 and keep the HD 800 or sell them and spend the money on a HE 1000 ... tough decision.




What's your budget for an amp? And better question, what type of music do you listen to?

If you're not listening to high res files, and pop, punk, rap, or R&B are what you primarily listen to, the HD800 won't be the best headphone for you.

If you upgrade (sidegrade) to the HEK, I'd still recommend changing your source and amp as the HEK tends to sound very soft with harsher treble when it's underpowered.


----------



## Hansotek

vc1187 said:


> If you *upgrade (sidegrade) to the HEK*, I'd still recommend changing your source and amp as the HEK tends to sound very soft with harsher treble when it's underpowered.




I'd call it a "downgrade" but tomato, tomAto.


----------



## ezekiel77

Would anyone say that the Moon Neo 430HA is a good amp for the HD800?


----------



## Hansotek

ezekiel77 said:


> Would anyone say that the Moon Neo 430HA is a good amp for the HD800?



IIRC, Stillhart tried that recently. Thoughts?


----------



## iDesign

ezekiel77 said:


> Would anyone say that the Moon Neo 430HA is a good amp for the HD800?


 

 I am currently evaluating the 430HAD while I have not spent enough time with the amplifier to draw any conclusions, I feel the amplifier is a good match to the HD 800 and HD 800 S headphones with the HI gain setting using the balanced XLR-4 output. However, the 430HAD may not be ideal for users looking for an emotive/immersive experience or coloration because it is so transparent. I'm still analyzing the 430HAD's level of finite information retrieval and spacial presentation but I have found it to be sufficient. 
  
 After critically listening to the 430HAD, I want to stress the importance of the HI gain setting using the XLR-4 output with the HD 800 and HD 800 S. There are a wide range of opinions about the 430HAD and users who may have found the 430HAD to be soft or lacking authority may not have been using the ideal gain settings. 
  
 Tyll Hertsens review of the 430HAD generally seems to be consistent with my initial observations. 
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/neutral-reference-headphone-amp-simaudio-moon-neo-430ha#ADMjoPr0EFi4TxLX.97


----------



## Stillhart

ezekiel77 said:


> Would anyone say that the Moon Neo 430HA is a good amp for the HD800?


 
  
  


hansotek said:


> IIRC, @Stillhart tried that recently. Thoughts?


 
  
 It's definitely not a bad match.  It's superbly transparent and detailed, but maybe more so than I personally prefer.  I had it back to back with the Cavalli Liquid Gold and my personal tastes run more towards the LAu for a bit more bass oomph and musicality in general.  I did like some of the bonus features like the x-feed and the many inputs.
  
 Definitely a solid amp and pairs well with the HD800 if you're looking for a dry, analytical sound ala Schiit amps.  Might pair better with the 800S, but I haven't tried that combo first hand.


----------



## sheldaze

There was discussion around the campfire (at a mini-meet this past weekend) was that the sound of the 430HAD was verging on the sound of the Schiit Ragnarok. I did not personally agree it was quite that dry - such as I do not care for my HD800S on Ragnarok because it seems to keep the soundstage small, to my ears. The 430HAD kept the soundstage large on the HD800S. But then, I have to switch headphones to the HE-1000 to compare it to the Liquid Gold. The 430HAD did the job - large sound stage, excellent bass depth, no treble glare.
  
 But the Gold just did something more. It was like the 430HAD was trying to prove that it was a good amplifier, which it is! And the Gold was doing something extra, just a little more - that thing that puts a smile on your face and keeps you listening for hours. Cavalli goes beyond the basics, and starts to sound like - well, Cavalli. It does everything exactly right, and then just a little more. Very hard to describe, but it's superb! The 430HAD does not reach for that kind of sound.
  
 My suspicions are I would not be interested to listen to HD800 or HD800S (which I did listen to) for very long on the 430HAD. But that's just my opinion, and based upon meet conditions.


----------



## Svatopluk

energy said:


> I tried taking it off/on during countless occasions, but without it, the sound is a little sharp to my ears. I wonder what everyone's opinion is o


 
 Speaking of dust covers, I thought I would share a laughably simple mod I've been using for some time now. Basically, it's just a small piece of foam weather stripping cut to fit over the backside of the Sennheiser emblem on the dust cover.
 All you have to do is cut two small, very thin strips of 3M double sided tape for adhesive purposes. Afterwards, you trim the foam thickness for the desired effect, if the foam is to thick it will reduce the treble more than desired. I have mine trimmed to 1/4 of an inch or 6.35 mm. This mod is easy and totally reversible, the 3M tape has not damaged the dust covers when removed.
 I'm not saying the mod will turn the Classic into the S, more like something in between and that may be a good thing.


----------



## Energy

Wouldn't the adhesive itself be a sound barrier?


----------



## ezekiel77

Thanks for all your kind feedback. Currently considering the 430HAD or the Master 11 as an all-in-one solution. Have the LCDX and planning to get HEK later on, but the HD800 is toughest to drive/match so that had to be asked first.


----------



## Svatopluk

energy said:


> Wouldn't the adhesive itself be a sound barrier?


 
 It could be, that's why I cut the strips as thin as possible. The mod does not seem to effect the sound stage, so I assume the cups are so big they cancel out the effect of the adhesive strips.


----------



## sheldaze

ezekiel77 said:


> Thanks for all your kind feedback. Currently considering the 430HAD or the Master 11 as an all-in-one solution. Have the LCDX and planning to get HEK later on, but the HD800 is toughest to drive/match so that had to be asked first.


 
 Strictly from HD800 perspective, there was a lot of love at the last two local meets for the Audio-GD NFB-27H, which is a sibling of the Master 11.


----------



## jhljhl

Trafomatic Head2 has warmth with transparency and dynamic synergy with the hd800 and lcd3f and hek.


----------



## DavidA

ezekiel77 said:


> Thanks for all your kind feedback. Currently considering the 430HAD or the Master 11 as an all-in-one solution. Have the LCDX and planning to get HEK later on, but the HD800 is toughest to drive/match so that had to be asked first.


 
 Heard the Master 11 last year when I was in Japan for my friends daughter's wedding, pairs very well with the HD-800.  The LCD-X and HEK were disappointing to me, while easier to drive than the HD-800 for the price they didn't really do anything better than the HD-800 & HD-800S IMO.  I still like the HD-800 better with a tube amp while the HD-800S is better with SS IMO.


----------



## ezekiel77

sheldaze said:


> Strictly from HD800 perspective, there was a lot of love at the last two local meets for the Audio-GD NFB-27H, which is a sibling of the Master 11.


 
  



davida said:


> Heard the Master 11 last year when I was in Japan for my friends daughter's wedding, pairs very well with the HD-800.  The LCD-X and HEK were disappointing to me, while easier to drive than the HD-800 for the price they didn't really do anything better than the HD-800 & HD-800S IMO.  I still like the HD-800 better with a tube amp while the HD-800S is better with SS IMO.


 
  
 I'll be testing the Master 11 next week hopefully. It's the 430HAD that I can't test so that one I had to rely on reviews and impressions alone. If Master 11 wows me I guess that is it.


----------



## Silicone

The highs are AMAZING sometimes overwhelming, but the headphone is just so beautiful and the sound is astronomically good, i can't wait to hear the 800s!


----------



## vc1187

silicone said:


> The highs are AMAZING sometimes overwhelming, but the headphone is just so beautiful and the sound is astronomically good, i can't wait to hear the 800s!


 
 Tradeoffs being that the HD800S highs are not as amazing, but also rarely overwhelming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Boost in bass and ever so slight boost in mid-range presence as well.
  
 I still like my HD800 for its very impressive treble presentation though.


----------



## Silicone

I've heard there are slight changes in the sound stage which was odd given most reviews haven't mentioned it. Did you notice any compromise in the soundstage with the 800s?


----------



## vc1187

silicone said:


> I've heard there are slight changes in the sound stage which was odd given most reviews haven't mentioned it. Did you notice any compromise in the soundstage with the 800s?


 
 I think the differences in soundstage are perceived based on the reduction in the upper frequencies.  To answer your question, yes I felt like the soundstage was affected from HD800 to HD800S.
  
 The HD800 is impressive to listen to but can have a peaky treble on some tracks or if it's not paired with an amp that can really control it.
 The HD800S sounds a little more ordinary, but is probably the more well-rounded of the two.
  
 Pick your poison.


----------



## DavidA

vc1187 said:


> I think the differences in soundstage are perceived based on the reduction in the upper frequencies.  To answer your question, yes I felt like the soundstage was affected from HD800 to HD800S.
> 
> The HD800 is impressive to listen to but can have a peaky treble on some tracks or if it's not paired with an amp that can really control it.
> The HD800S sounds a little more ordinary, but is probably the more well-rounded of the two.
> ...


 
 Great way to describe the differences and I agree.  HD-800 is the more amp picky of the two IMO


----------



## Hifi59

vc1187 said:


> I think the differences in soundstage are perceived based on the reduction in the upper frequencies.  To answer your question, yes I felt like the soundstage was affected from HD800 to HD800S.
> 
> The HD800 is impressive to listen to but can have a peaky treble on some tracks or if it's not paired with an amp that can really control it.
> The HD800S sounds a little more ordinary, but is probably the more well-rounded of the two.
> ...




It's funny. I've heard the 800 many times over the past year (solid state amps and tube ) and I just didn't get it. I found them to be dry, non musical and analytical sounding but a touch musical with tube amp.I even heard a set that was modded and I still didn't like it. Then I heard a set with the SuperDupont mod and boy did that one make a difference. That experience lead me to buy the newer H800S. I find it to be very musical and engaging and easy to listen to for long sessions without fatigue. Not quite as engaging as my LCD-3 or 4 , nor my Hifiman he-1k, but definitely in the same league.


----------



## Hifi59

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]





potkettleblack said:


>




Or this...


----------



## JamieMcC

solarium said:


> I'm surprised that the Mainline isn't on the top list of amps, as it's in the same bracket as the microZOTL2, since they are priced very similarly. The Mainline has some good reviews too. I just bought a prebuilt Mainline for an amazing price, so I'm contemplating its synergy compared to the other amps with much smaller footprints.


 

 How are you getting on with the Mainline?


----------



## GodsInHisHeaven

vc1187 said:


> What's your budget for an amp? And better question, what type of music do you listen to?
> 
> If you're not listening to high res files, and pop, punk, rap, or R&B are what you primarily listen to, the HD800 won't be the best headphone for you.
> 
> If you upgrade (sidegrade) to the HEK, I'd still recommend changing your source and amp as the HEK tends to sound very soft with harsher treble when it's underpowered.


 
  
 Budget for an AMP would be around 1000€.
 The Schiit Mjolnir 2 for 849 € seems quiet nice. Are there better available options in Europe for that money?
  
 After only using the HE 560 for the last week my tinnitus was finally gone again.
 So for the last two days I tried the HD 800 with some EQ'ing (see below) again and the ringing reoccurred. I am pretty sure its the HD 800 causing the tinnitus.
  
 I love my HD 800 a lot, but the sound quality is not worth the bothersome ringing... If everything works out I will be buying a HE 1000 soon and sell my HD 800.


----------



## stvn758

What a palava, my fingers ache.
  
 Managed to get the pads back on, gave the white plastic bit a little stretch, although how that helped alludes me as they do just appear to snap back in - maybe a more precise alignment is needed with the casing.
  
 Still for this price you think they would make it easier. One cup getting in the way, the inner membrane falling out and moving, the outer shell crumpling. My nice clean pads subjected to endless pressing, even with washed hands they feel all greasy now.  
  
 A damp cloth from now on.


----------



## Solarium

jamiemcc said:


> How are you getting on with the Mainline?


 
 Just got it today actually. Assembled it (just the wooden blocks) back to full, and plugged in everything. Listened to a few well known songs to refresh my memories on the crack w/ speedball (with TS5998 and CBS/Hytron 5814A tubes) then connected everything (via iDSD, getting my Mojo sometime next week).
  
 Initial impressions is that it's a lot less brighter than what I expected (from reading the mainline vs crack forums it sounded to me that I would expect the mainline to be a lot less warm). It's incredibly well balanced, and nothing really stands out like bright trebles, bass bloom, mid centric, etc. It's VERY polished, and highs are the smoothest I've heard (but also extended). The bass is better extended than the crack, and absolutely the best bass I've heard. The mids are as good as the crack setup, but I don't think there's much to improve on already. Everything is just more coherent, better balanced and more NATURAL sounding. The more I listen to it the more I'm addicted to it. It's VERY apparent that this is on a completely different level than the Crack. I haven't heard anything on this tier (like the Torpedo 3, Microzotl, Black Widow) to compare with, but I have to say I'm EXTREMELY satisfied with this, even if it were 4 times the size and more uglier looking


----------



## treebug

stvn758 said:


> What a palava, my fingers ache.
> 
> Managed to get the pads back on, gave the white plastic bit a little stretch, although how that helped alludes me as they do just appear to snap back in - maybe a more precise alignment is needed with the casing.
> 
> ...


 

 Would like to change my pads but keep reading about how awkward it is. As you say, you'd think Sennheiser would have designed them so the process is easier considering the cost of the headphones and the replacement pads. Is the headband pad replaceable do you know?


----------



## MWSVette

treebug said:


> Would like to change my pads but keep reading about how awkward it is. As you say, you'd thing Sennheiser would have designed them so the process is easier considering the cost of the headphones and the replacement pads. Is the headband pad replaceable do you know?


 
 Yes, And it is much easier to change than the ear pads...


----------



## stvn758

treebug said:


> Would like to change my pads but keep reading about how awkward it is. As you say, you'd thing Sennheiser would have designed them so the process is easier considering the cost of the headphones and the replacement pads. Is the headband pad replaceable do you know?


 
 I bought some woolen headband covers off eBay so mine is as pristine as the day I opened the box. They are a bit tight on top but do the job, quite comfy.
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Grey-Wool-Headband-Cushion-Cover-for-Sennheiser-HD700-HD800-Logitech-G35-Headset-/131659671004?hash=item1ea78725dc:g:CmwAAOSw0vBUinjB
  
 I did try and find some earpad covers and they are available but they're more for mass meeting hygiene purposes and covered the whole of the cup including the driver so they'd probably mess up the sound. Considering how much the replacement pads cost and how feeble they looked when they were off I thought this is like fancy razors and toothbrushes, they make a fortune selling the replacement parts.   
  
 For a pair of headphones that retail at £1100 that's pretty annoying.


----------



## Peti

My earpads' change is due, too. I will, however, use the new pads with this product, at least I will give it a try. It's a big hit among japanese hd800 fans.
  
 http://mimimamo.com/sennheiser_hd800.html
  
 They claim it further improves the sound, but I mainly want it to protect the earpads from being worn out again.


----------



## blacknile

godsinhisheaven said:


> Budget for an AMP would be around 1000€.
> The Schiit Mjolnir 2 for 849 € seems quiet nice. Are there better available options in Europe for that money?


 
  
 My late SN (40K) HD800 work really well with a Violectric V200 and a Corda Classic, both readily available in Europe. No issues with ringing of treble peaks with most of my music (classical, ECM jazz) and these amps.


----------



## stvn758

peti said:


> My earpads' change is due, too. I will, however, use the new pads with this product, at least I will give it a try. It's a big hit among japanese hd800 fans.
> 
> http://mimimamo.com/sennheiser_hd800.html
> 
> They claim it further improves the sound, but I mainly want it to protect the earpads from being worn out again.


 
  
 Interesting, £24 on eBay, might be worth a try especially if they make the sound better. With all the pressing mine are positively flat. 
  
  
 They go over the original pads I take it.


----------



## Peti

Yes, but 24 GBP is steep nonetheless.


----------



## stvn758

peti said:


> Yes, but 24 GBP is steep nonetheless.


 
  
 A (very) quick Google shows the original pads cost £71. That's just outrageous, can't see anything special about this material, the opposite in fact. I got two sets of pads with my Ultrasone 2500's, a quick turn they're off, put them in some washing powder and dry, both sets still in great condition and comfortable.
  
 These ones actually have some padding on them, depending on what they do to the sound signature you could use them as cheap replacement pads. If a piece of cloth inside the cup mod can make the Senn's sound better then who knows. The original pads are so shallow these might do the trick.


----------



## Peti

stvn758 said:


> A (very) quick Google shows the original pads cost £71. That's just outrageous, can't see anything special about this material, the opposite in fact. I got two sets of pads with my Ultrasone 2500's, a quick turn they're off, put them in some washing powder and dry, both sets still in great condition and comfortable.
> 
> These ones actually have some padding on them, depending on what they do to the sound signature you could use them as cheap replacement pads. If a piece of cloth inside the cup mod can make the Senn's sound better then who knows. The original pads are so shallow these might do the trick.




The mimimamo product for the hd800 is not earpads but a fine cloth-like material to be put around the earpads.


----------



## stvn758

peti said:


> The mimimamo product for the hd800 is not earpads but a fine cloth-like material to be put around the earpads.


 





 
 You could be right, picture is a little deceptive. Can't see how that would alter the sound though, so why the graph, Google translate isn't very good. Still that's just what I was looking for, if it saves £60-70 on a new set of originals, bargain.


----------



## Peti

I'm afraid that won't substitute a new pair of earpads...but keep us posted anyway!


----------



## johnjen

After you detach the ear pads once or twice and get the hang of it, it's pretty easy.
 I've been doing it long enough to where it's become 2nd nature.
  
 Use your thumb nail and wedge it between the pad and the frame and work it around.
 The 1st few times it will be more difficult, just because.
  
 But like I said once you get it figured out, it's pretty easy.
  
 And 800's are by far and away the most user friendly design for DIY'g I've seen thus far.
 It is VERY easy to take them apart and put back together with only 2 torx bits.
  
 JJ


----------



## Thenewguy007

peti said:


> My earpads' change is due, too. I will, however, use the new pads with this product, at least I will give it a try. It's a big hit among japanese hd800 fans.
> 
> http://mimimamo.com/sennheiser_hd800.html
> 
> They claim it further improves the sound, but I mainly want it to protect the earpads from being worn out again.


 


 So basically a $40 stocking put over the earpads?


----------



## Peti

It's like 30$ from Amazon, but a stocking-like thing, nevertheless!


----------



## treebug

johnjen said:


> After you detach the ear pads once or twice and get the hang of it, it's pretty easy.
> I've been doing it long enough to where it's become 2nd nature.
> 
> Use your thumb nail and wedge it between the pad and the frame and work it around.
> ...


 

 I read that it's easy to remove the pads but not so easy getting the replacement ones on?


----------



## johnjen

Yeah when new they haven't developed the grooves and the flanges aren't bent into the right shape yet.
  
 The trick is to try starting at different 'corners' and squeezing your way around to the opposite corner, while keeping the starting corner in place.
 Once the starting corner is found and the direction of pressing the edges into the frame is figured out it becomes much easier.
 And after they are in place the flanges assume the correct shape for easier removal and re-installation.
  
 You know they are made to fit, it's just a matter of finding the correct sequence and starting position to get it all seated.
 Don't force it, too much, but they will need a more firm push the first few times.
  
 And you can tell when they are seated properly because you can feel the pad seat in the frame and the gap between the frame and the pad is uniform all the way around.
  
  
 JJ


----------



## AutumnCrown

autumncrown said:


> I'm not sure, I will have to see how brain burn-in goes.


 
 I was going to keep my 400i and the HD800, but I've decided to get an HD800S and sell the 400i instead. The S's signature is kind of inbetween the HD800 and 400i so it works.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

As much as I think the S will make the HD800 more palatable to the general world, I'm not persuaded that it's a step up for classical.


----------



## 13713

The 800 still has a sound that many of us love. I won't say the S is bad. But it is different.


----------



## Thenewguy007

johnjen said:


> Yeah when new they haven't developed the grooves and the flanges aren't bent into the right shape yet.
> 
> The trick is to try starting at different 'corners' and squeezing your way around to the opposite corner, while keeping the starting corner in place.
> Once the starting corner is found and the direction of pressing the edges into the frame is figured out it becomes much easier.
> ...


 
  
 Any chance you can make a video of a close up taking them apart & uploading it on youtube?

 Sounds like if I mess up, I can easily snap parts of the plastic off.


----------



## johnjen

I'm really not setup to do videos.
 But the chances that you'll "snap parts of the plastic off" is remote, that is unless you're ham handed and have a tendency of breaking stuff.
  
 It's mostly a matter of squeezing the ear pads onto the frame and watching how well they fit together.
 If they just fight you, then change positions or start from another 'corner'.
 IOW try different positions and directions as the starting point and then work your way around the outside and feel and watch as the pads 'slip in' and seat into place.
 If the pad doesn't want to seat, even before squeezing, then re-start.
  
 Perhaps I can get one of our local group to video this process and post it.
  
 JJ


----------



## shultzee

johnjen said:


> I'm really not setup to do videos.
> But the chances that you'll "snap parts of the plastic off" is remote, that is unless you're ham handed and have a tendency of breaking stuff.
> 
> It's mostly a matter of squeezing the ear pads onto the frame and watching how well they fit together.
> ...


 

 I would love to see a video as well.   If you are able to do it , thanks in advance.


----------



## treebug

Would like to see a video too, before I buy any pads! Surprised that Sennheiser only have a video of the pads being removed.


----------



## AutumnCrown

My Hd800 S has a slight noise in the horizontal axis hinge on the right cup. Is there any way to get better access to that hinge or do I just have to fix it from the outside?


----------



## johnjen

The 'hinge' is actually a compression assembly that also holds (acts as the attachment point) for the entire ear cup assembly.
  
 It is easy to get to, but you do need to remove the ear pad 1st.
 Then just tighten _*by hand*_ the 2 (#8) torx screws just a bit.
 They are located adjacent to the 'trapazoid' near the outside edge of the ear cup frame.
  
 JJ


----------



## AutumnCrown

johnjen said:


> The 'hinge' is actually a compression assembly that also holds (acts as the attachment point) for the entire ear cup assembly.
> 
> It is easy to get to, but you do need to remove the ear pad 1st.
> Then just tighten _*by hand*_ the 2 (#8) torx screws just a bit.
> ...


 
 Ok thanks. You think it's a loose torx screw that is making the noise?


----------



## AutumnCrown

Whoah so when I opened it was that very thin, translucent material the driver itself or just another screen? I don't want to get dust on it.


----------



## AutumnCrown

damn it's actually the other hinge making the noise. Any advice for how to access it?


----------



## ClintonL

Has anyone used an asgard 2 with the hd800s? Have a bottlehead crack and looking for something SS to switch it up with.


----------



## johnjen

autumncrown said:


> Ok thanks. You think it's a loose torx screw that is making the noise?


 
 If the hinge is loose then that is the 'fix'.
  
 JJ


----------



## johnjen

autumncrown said:


> damn it's actually the other hinge making the noise. Any advice for how to access it?


 
 Other hinge?
 Do you mean the pin that sits vertically and allows the ear cups to rotate on the vertical axis (the ones with a spring to keep them under a slight amount of tension against our head?).
  
 If that is the one then just make sure the pin is fully seated downwards.
 It isn't completely flush with the top of the attachment arm, but is close to flush when fully seated.
  
 JJ


----------



## AutumnCrown

johnjen said:


> Other hinge?
> Do you mean the pin that sits vertically and allows the ear cups to rotate on the vertical axis (the ones with a spring to keep them under a slight amount of tension against our head?).
> 
> If that is the one then just make sure the pin is fully seated downwards.
> ...


 

 Yes I mean that hinge. The problem is I can't figure out how to get enough leverage to seat it. The bottom end of the pin is tiny and I can't seem to squeeze both the top and bottom enough to seat it by hand.


----------



## johnjen

All you can do is push the head down till it fully seats (where it's almost flush).
 If it's already there then there are 'other' issues.
  
 And a thought just occurred,
 DO both ear cups have equal spring tension while rotating around that vertical pivot pin?
 I've seen one report where the spring went sideways and that could be a source of noise.
  
 JJ


----------



## AutumnCrown

johnjen said:


> All you can do is push the head down till it fully seats (where it's almost flush).
> If it's already there then there are 'other' issues.
> 
> And a thought just occurred,
> ...


 
 The pin goes down quite easily, but it just has a bit of play there is all. I can move it up and down within a space of a half millimeter or so. Maybe I am being obsessive about it. Thanks very much for you help. The spring is functioning correctly.


----------



## h4mm3r 0f th0r

I got the hd800 over the hd800s thinking that the higher treble of hd800 would give me more detail(a guess). I don't use them for music or anything due to being more into speakers, they are reduced to being my fps gaming headphones(and oh my, they are freaky).


----------



## pervysage

h4mm3r 0f th0r said:


> I got the hd800 over the hd800s thinking that the higher treble of hd800 would give me more detail(a guess). I don't use them for music or anything due to being more into speakers, they are reduced to being my fps gaming headphones(and oh my, they are freaky).




Same here, haha. They are fantastic for certain types of music but I use them most for gaming these days. All other times I use speakers or the TH900 for late night listening.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

clintonl said:


> Has anyone used an asgard 2 with the hd800s? Have a bottlehead crack and looking for something SS to switch it up with.


 

 Liquid Carbon (if you can find it) is much better regarded, but if you want to "switch it up" between SS and tubes, Mjolnir 2 is the beginning and end of your journey


----------



## vc1187

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Liquid Carbon (if you can find it) is much better regarded, but if you want to "switch it up" between SS and tubes, Mjolnir 2 is the beginning and end of your journey


 
 Relatively speaking, LC and Mjolnir 2 are much more expensive than the Asgard 2 though


----------



## Thenewguy007

clintonl said:


> Has anyone used an asgard 2 with the hd800s? Have a bottlehead crack and looking for something SS to switch it up with.


 
  
 I had both, the Crack is a step up in every way over the Asgard 2 for the HD800.


----------



## audiojun

thenewguy007 said:


> I had both, the Crack is a step up in every way over the Asgard 2 for the HD800.




Except in channel seperation (stage width) most amps are better than the crack in that regard. But it has a crossfeed effect so it's not so bad.


----------



## DavidA

audiojun said:


> Except in channel seperation (stage width) most amps are better than the crack in that regard. But it has a crossfeed effect so it's not so bad.


 

 Agree with you on this point about channel separation, even my Lyr2 does better than the Crack and its not known for it.


----------



## audiojun

Just received my HD 800 today, so far impressions are not so good. My modded HD 650 sounds better overall. HD 650 just sounds more natural in tone and sounds smoother, also the 6khz peak from the HD 800 is a bit too much.

I have the super dupont resonator incoming that should tame the 6khz a bit. If it isn't enough I might do the cork mod and liner absorber mod.


----------



## Khragon

You're doing all that to a new HD800? why not return it and get HD800S?


----------



## DavidA

audiojun said:


> Just received my HD 800 today, so far impressions are not so good. My modded HD 650 sounds better overall. HD 650 just sounds more natural in tone and sounds smoother, also the 6khz peak from the HD 800 is a bit too much.
> 
> I have the super dupont resonator incoming that should tame the 6khz a bit. If it isn't enough I might do the cork mod and liner absorber mod.


 
 I think it might be that the Torpedo III doesn't have the best synergy with the HD-800 like it does with the HD-650.  I think the Torpedo is more similar in design to the Lyr2 than the BH Crack, for me the HD-800 doesn't sound that great on the Lyr2 but is really good on the BH Crack.


----------



## audiojun

khragon said:


> You're doing all that to a new HD800? why not return it and get HD800S?


 
  
 I got the HD 800 used, because of price and performance. It measures similar with the said mods and possibly performs better than HD 800S. The HD 800S has a bit of extra 2nd order distortion in the bass, which actually sounds euphonic like the way tubes distort, but it's still distortion, less bass fart is still better.


----------



## audiojun

davida said:


> I think it might be that the Torpedo III doesn't have the best synergy with the HD-800 like it does with the HD-650.  I think the Torpedo is more similar in design to the Lyr2 than the BH Crack, for me the HD-800 doesn't sound that great on the Lyr2 but is really good on the BH Crack.


 
  
 People have said on the other forum that the Torpedo III is a great match but it's a bit neutral sounding when compared to other tube amps (warmer).


----------



## DavidA

audiojun said:


> People have said on the other forum that the Torpedo III is a great match but it's a bit neutral sounding when compared to other tube amps (warmer).


 
 I don't think I would like a neutral amp for the HD-800 due to the 6khz spike but since we all hear differently then what might be a spike for one maybe better details to another.  Hope you get it sorted out, I was thinking that I wish you still had your BH Crack so you could do some comparisons.  And FWIW I have warmer tubes in the BH Crack, TS-5998 and 12AU7 Mullard.


----------



## audiojun

davida said:


> I don't think I would like a neutral amp for the HD-800 due to the 6khz spike but since we all hear differently then what might be a spike for one maybe better details to another.  Hope you get it sorted out, I was thinking that I wish you still had your BH Crack so you could do some comparisons.  And FWIW I have warmer tubes in the BH Crack, TS-5998 and 12AU7 Mullard.


 
  
 I mitigated much of the neutral nature of the Torpedo III with warmer tubes I am using 6060 brimar yellow T's. I have 3 sets of tubes so far with the T3 and it does respond to tubes rolling well, it also is very low noise something that can't be achieved from the Crack with all the tricked out mods, it's also very dynamic sounding like double speedballs, the stock T3 impressed me enough that I sold off the Crack, it just didn't match the clarity, dynamics and staging. I think the mainline is more worthy competitor both are parafeed and transformer coupled, except T3 is differential. The T3 and Musette is sounding really good for the HD 650, the HD 800 probably needs the mods.


----------



## vc1187

Give yourself some time to get used to the HD800.  A lot of times, if you're already used to the HD650, the HD800 may be a shock to your brain, but eventually, you'll come to realize that it is a superb pair of headphones.  Also, what type of music do you listen to?  Some genres will just never sound that great on the HD800, and that's something that most HD800 owners have come to accept.


----------



## aksh

johnjen said:


> I'm really not setup to do videos.
> But the chances that you'll "snap parts of the plastic off" is remote, that is unless you're ham handed and have a tendency of breaking stuff.
> 
> It's mostly a matter of squeezing the ear pads onto the frame and watching how well they fit together.
> ...


 

 Just changed the pads on my HD800s. As mentioned by johnjen, the frame and plastic cover are pretty sturdy. It is a matter of snapping the new pad onto its channel holding only the edge of the cups, and squeezing along...it needs to be finessed but is a proper snap fit, and can fit only one way, so you'll know when done.
 On an unrelated matter, i found corrosion in a couple of the screws holding the driver, when i opened up for replacing the pads. I cleaned up as much as i could with rubbing alcohol, but any idea about the replacement type?


----------



## audiojun

vc1187 said:


> Give yourself some time to get used to the HD800.  A lot of times, if you're already used to the HD650, the HD800 may be a shock to your brain, but eventually, you'll come to realize that it is a superb pair of headphones.  Also, what type of music do you listen to?  Some genres will just never sound that great on the HD800, and that's something that most HD800 owners have come to accept.




So far HD800 is good with staging and imaging. Modded HD 650 comes close on soundstage but a bit more forward sounding, for imaging HD 800 pulls ahead. But HD 650 just sounds better musically.

HD 800 became more easier to listen with -4db @6khz EQ.

For music I have a big variety but I like music that are high quality. mainstream pop music sounds bad with HD800. Well recorded classical and jazz sounds good but I feel it's still on par with HD 650 even on those genres.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

vc1187 said:


> Relatively speaking, LC and Mjolnir 2 are much more expensive than the Asgard 2 though


 

 HD800 works with tubes a lot more easily than SS, and anyway, if you're into HD800 you should bite the bullet and get something balanced. Or live with your budget tube amp.


----------



## Sorrodje

@audiojun : HD6X0 and HD800 are different beasts. Your brain need time to adjust.  Don't blame amp or cables or whatever. Just let your brain adjust (or not) to a very different sounding headphone. 
  
 I'm doing exactly the same currently with a Strax SR007 ( MKII Spritzer modded). Coming from my HD800SD or my HE60 , the 007 sounds dull as hell. But after a few evenings of listening , my brain is now accustomed and I can hear better what this Stax brings to the table.   It needed some efforts though. 
  
 Now I can even do A/B comparison and my Brain adjust more quickly than before. On some recordings I can enjoy both presentation equally even if they're different. on some other, I can vastly prefer the HD800SD or the 007.


----------



## Arniesb

davida said:


> I don't think I would like a neutral amp for the HD-800 due to the 6khz spike but since we all hear differently then what might be a spike for one maybe better details to another.  Hope you get it sorted out, I was thinking that I wish you still had your BH Crack so you could do some comparisons.  And FWIW I have warmer tubes in the BH Crack, TS-5998 and 12AU7 Mullard.


+1 I still cant believe how many experienced head-fiers dont know that one amp cant work for every headphone... Imagine guys Hollywood stars whitout makeup, they didn't look anywhere near as good. Makeup (Colored amps) is necessary for HD800, HD700 T1, T70, Dt880 and so on for obvious reasons. I tried some tube amps and some colored ss and i didn't liked them with HD600series, DT990 and DT770, but loved such amps with colder T1, DT880, T90 or HD700. I agree with DavidA about HD800 + Crack. Even Thou i didn't liked HD650 with crack, but loved Crack with HD800 and T1. My friend who have HD800 + Crack + Rega Dac said he was listening everything with it, because experience are quite pleasant with most genres.


----------



## mtoc

sorrodje said:


> I just bought a SR007mkII and




Sorrodje, what do you think about hd800 and your modded 007 mk2?


----------



## Sorrodje

I think they're very good headphones. Amongst the few best I heard thus far.


----------



## treebug

aksh said:


> Just changed the pads on my HD800s. As mentioned by johnjen, the frame and plastic cover are pretty sturdy. It is a matter of snapping the new pad onto its channel holding only the edge of the cups, and squeezing along...it needs to be finessed but is a proper snap fit, and can fit only one way, so you'll know when done.
> On an unrelated matter, i found corrosion in a couple of the screws holding the driver, when i opened up for replacing the pads. I cleaned up as much as i could with rubbing alcohol, but any idea about the replacement type?


 

 Sent mine back to Sennheiser UK to have the pads changed including the headband pad. Was too worried about breaking something!


----------



## vc1187

Heard the HD800 with the SuperDupont mod this past weekend (along with Bill-P's dampening mods).  Have to say, it was much better than the HD800S, and certainly sounded more true to the HD800 sound signature that I am very used to over the HD800S.  Not sure if it was the SD mod, the Bill-P mod, or the 4 pin balanced cable being used instead of my dual 3 pin balanced, but the presentation seemed to be more forward sounding and louder, on both my Stratus and LAu.


----------



## mtoc

sorrodje said:


> I think they're very good headphones. Amongst the few best I heard thus far.


 
  
 Tell us more when you have time maybe...


----------



## whirlwind

I have been using this combo just about everyday for about a year now.
  
 I generally roll tubes once a week.
  
 Very musical, very happy.


----------



## Hansotek

Anybody ever have an issue with the cable connector not seating properly in the headphone. Mine just started slipping down a tiny bit on the left side occasionally causing the left channel to cut out. Does anybody have a hot fix to keep it in place?


----------



## DavidA

hansotek said:


> Anybody ever have an issue with the cable connector not seating properly in the headphone. Mine just started slipping down a tiny bit on the left side occasionally causing the left channel to cut out. Does anybody have a hot fix to keep it in place?


 

 Had that problem with some after market connectors, used some Teflon tape to build it up a touch to make the fit a little more snug.


----------



## lukeap69

whirlwind said:


> I have been using this combo just about everyday for about a year now.
> 
> I generally roll tubes once a week.
> 
> Very musical, very happy.




Joe, what cable is that? Looks nice.


----------



## pervysage

lukeap69 said:


> Joe, what cable is that? Looks nice.




Definitely from Norne Audio, looks like a Draug 2.


----------



## lukeap69

pervysage said:


> Definitely from Norne Audio, looks like a Draug 2.




Thanks. I have heard good things about Draug 2 and HD800 paired.


----------



## whirlwind

lukeap69 said:


> pervysage said:
> 
> 
> > Definitely from Norne Audio, looks like a Draug 2.
> ...


 
 Yes, it is a Draug 2 from Trevor at Norne audio


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Speaking of cables...

I just got_* this one*_ for the HD 800 today...

Here is what it looks like...



Finally... 

I can now wear my HD 800 as a portable, walking around, doing chores, driving it with a CEntrance HiFi M8 DAC/amp. In addition to great sound, it is very comfortable and adhesive, not falling off when I bend over.



Or *(the following is rated XXX and should not be viewed by those offended by this material):

*


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Not! I can drive it directly from my iPhone 5! It has the full-capability Apple in-line remote control to allow volume adjustment, pause, repeat, and skip, and a 1.2 meter cord.



Of course, Truth has Consequences...





*The Sennheiser HD 800 - it's not just for chair listening anymore!*


----------



## DavidA

@ruthieandjohn, is that a colorware HD-800? or did you do the paint job yourself?  Nice job either way.
  
 PS: what happened to the Mini and turntable setup that goes with the HD-800?


----------



## ruthieandjohn

davida said:


> @ruthieandjohn
> , is that a colorware HD-800? or did you do the paint job yourself?  Nice job either way.
> 
> PS: what happened to the Mini and turntable setup that goes with the HD-800?





Colorware. Also did the HDVD 800 amp to match. Also a custom balanced cable by zabzaf. Over two years and looks like new!


----------



## Peti

Now this is just precious!!!!


----------



## Mambosenior

peti said:


> Now this is just precious!!!!




Yes! Let he be gone! The nerve!


----------



## Peti

I remember when I first got ahold of a pair of HD800 back in the day...I didn't even have any proper amps and I just hooked them up to my FIIO X3 DAC along with my laptop...I literally felt ashamed!


----------



## ruthieandjohn

peti said:


> I remember when I first got ahold of a pair of HD800 back in the day...I didn't even have any proper amps and I just hooked them up to my FIIO X3 DAC along with my laptop...I literally felt ashamed!


 
 Sure sounded good, though, didn't they?  Not loud, perhaps, but good!  
  
 (It's OK to say so... you're among friends!)
  
 Oh, and I LOVE their color scheme in your avatar.  Looks so comfortingly familiar!


----------



## Peti

Actually they sound much better from the Liquid Gold! 
  
 Wanted to ask, your HD800 is gloss or matte? I'm planning to do the same actually with mine.


----------



## lenroot77

I just received the hd800's today and boy I am impressed! First time hearing a headphone of this level. Good stuff!


----------



## ruthieandjohn

It is gloss.


----------



## Peti

ruthieandjohn said:


> It is gloss.


 

 Gloss and pretty! Thanks for the info.


----------



## Hansotek

davida said:


> Had that problem with some after market connectors, used some Teflon tape to build it up a touch to make the fit a little more snug.


 
  
 Thanks man! That totally worked!


----------



## Peti

That's one reason why I love this forum and its people!


----------



## ubs28

Anyone got luck asking Sennheiser for new earpads? If so, how much do they charge?


----------



## bearFNF

Mine were $75, $87.35 after shipping


----------



## ubs28

Thanks for the information. That's quite expensive for a pair of pads?


----------



## Svatopluk

ubs28 said:


> Thanks for the information. That's quite expensive for a pair of pads?


 
 Yes, but they are hand made from BMW seat upholstery by elderly German church ladies.


----------



## Svatopluk

But seriously. It's a 1500 dollar headphone, so the price of the replacement pads is not that far out of line.


----------



## DavidA

svatopluk said:


> But seriously. It's a 1500 dollar headphone, so the price of the replacement pads is not that far out of line.


 
 The prices for Audeze and others replacement ear pads are similar


----------



## Peti

svatopluk said:


> Yes, but they are hand made from BMW seat upholstery by elderly German church ladies.


 

 I thought they were made from Maybach seat upholstery by german nuns. How disappointing...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Multifrost has taken some of the bright edge off my HD800, including with LISST. I can't imagine just how good Yggdrasil will make them...


----------



## Thenewguy007

davida said:


> The prices for Audeze and others replacement ear pads are similar


 
  
 But they are so much thicker.
 With the HD800 pads, there is barely anything.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

There's a cleverer shape. I think they fit beautifully on the head. I'm sure it took a ton of r n d.


----------



## Beztis

hey do any of you guys still think that the HD800 is worth buying? I know lot of people are saying that the hd800's were kind of a mistake and have too painful highs and sold their hd800's for the new HD800S, but I refuse to spend that much money on headphones when there's still so many homeless people here in america. However, the price of the hd800's have dropped quite a bit, though is that because nobody likes them anymore? do you any of you still like the HD800? I am very treble sensitive and perfer a warm pleasurable sound but I have a littledot mk3 tube amp with  NOS 1963 m8100s, and with my hd650s it actually sounds "too dark" for me... so would that be a good end game/end life pairing with the HD800? or should i just wait for the price of the hD800S to come down?


----------



## Sorrodje

Just upgrade your amp ( Schiit Vallalha 2 for example) and enjoy your HD650. a HD800 won't offer you the "warm pleasurable" sound you're looking for. 
  
 Several of us are still happy with a HD800 and still advice it . we often use it with EQ and/or mods though. in stock form, the HD800 is still one of the very best headphones for classical and acoustics despite the tonal issue (6khz peak).


----------



## Beztis

sorrodje said:


> Just upgrade your amp ( Schiit Vallalha 2 for example) and enjoy your HD650. a HD800 won't offer you the "warm pleasurable" sound you're looking for.
> 
> Several of us are still happy with a HD800 and still advice it . we often use it with EQ and/or mods though. in stock form, the HD800 is still one of the very best headphones for classical and acoustics despite the tonal issue (6khz peak).


 
 well actually i like how my 650hd sounds, i just dont like how it fits on my head. and tbh i had the valhalla 2 for a while and it was pretty neutral and i didn't notice any improvement over my old o2odac.  I do like the mk3 + 650s the best so far, even if it is too dark on some songs it sounds very nice. I just want something more comfortable that i can wear all day. my ears arent super huge, but they touch the 650s in a way that makes me fidget every seconds, and i like how the HD800's are D shaped and very big but have thin pads.


----------



## Peti

beztis said:


> hey do any of you guys still think that the HD800 is worth buying? I know lot of people are saying that the hd800's were kind of a mistake and have too painful highs and sold their hd800's for the new HD800S, but I refuse to spend that much money on headphones when there's still so many homeless people here in america. However, the price of the hd800's have dropped quite a bit, though is that because nobody likes them anymore? do you any of you still like the HD800? I am very treble sensitive and perfer a warm pleasurable sound but I have a littledot mk3 tube amp with  NOS 1963 m8100s, and with my hd650s it actually sounds "too dark" for me... so would that be a good end game/end life pairing with the HD800? or should i just wait for the price of the hD800S to come down?


 

 I can confirm that Liquid Carbon with the Classic HD800 is amazing. No more harsh trebles at all. Get a DAC that complements this pair and you are all set. EQ might be another way (if you are ok with it) but I have never tried that way so can't comment.


----------



## DavidA

beztis said:


> hey do any of you guys still think that the HD800 is worth buying? I know lot of people are saying that the hd800's were kind of a mistake and have too painful highs and sold their hd800's for the new HD800S, but I refuse to spend that much money on headphones when there's still so many homeless people here in america. However, the price of the hd800's have dropped quite a bit, though is that because nobody likes them anymore? do you any of you still like the HD800? I am very treble sensitive and perfer a warm pleasurable sound but I have a littledot mk3 tube amp with  NOS 1963 m8100s, and with my hd650s it actually sounds "too dark" for me... so would that be a good end game/end life pairing with the HD800? or should i just wait for the price of the hD800S to come down?


 
 I agree with @Sorrodje, neither the HD-800 or S will give you the "warm pleasurable" sound like the HD-650.  Why not try different tubes in the LD mk3, would be a lot cheaper than a headphone.
  
 As for your comfort issue, are the pads worn? or the clamping force might be too high.


----------



## Mambosenior

davida said:


> I agree with @Sorrodje
> , neither the HD-800 or S will give you the "warm pleasurable" sound like the HD-650.  Why not try different tubes in the LD mk3, would be a lot cheaper than a headphone.
> 
> As for your comfort issue, are the pads worn? or the clamping force might be too high.





beztis said:


> hey do any of you guys still think that the HD800 is worth buying? I know lot of people are saying that the hd800's were kind of a mistake and have too painful highs and sold their hd800's for the new HD800S, but I refuse to spend that much money on headphones when there's still so many homeless people here in america. However, the price of the hd800's have dropped quite a bit, though is that because nobody likes them anymore? do you any of you still like the HD800? I am very treble sensitive and perfer a warm pleasurable sound but I have a littledot mk3 tube amp with  NOS 1963 m8100s, and with my hd650s it actually sounds "too dark" for me... so would that be a good end game/end life pairing with the HD800? or should i just wait for the price of the hD800S to come down?




"I know lot of people are saying that the hd800's were kind of a mistake and have too painful highs and sold their hd800's for the new HD800S..."

The HD-800 "a mistake!" Really!? I'd like making "mistakes" like the 800.

I have both it and the 800S. For large classical works there is nothing I've heard that touches the 800. The "S" is also excellent but NOT in the same level of the "non-S" for complex classical works.

Coming to grips with the above opinion...to my ears and using different gear...has made me consider selling the 800S as I don't listen to mega-bit versions of "Hotel California" very often. For Pop, the "S" is wonderful--a bit bassier, seemingly warmer, and less panoramic--although the Hifiman 6 or 5LE are equally stunning.

I have read some pretty silly things about the HD-800 but...a mistake?!?


----------



## icebear

The HD800 is telling the absolute truth.
 The truth about the recording, the source and the amp.
 The truth isn't always pleasurable to listen to, that's life
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 So if you/anyone wants to hear only pleasurable messages, then getting a HD800 is indeed a mistake.
  
 I for my part, I have the HD800 for about 2.5 years now and with my set up and my music preference, I am not looking to change anything.
 It sounds purely awesome to my old ears.


----------



## lenroot77

peti said:


> I can confirm that Liquid Carbon with the Classic HD800 is amazing. No more harsh trebles at all. Get a DAC that complements this pair and you are all set. EQ might be another way (if you are ok with it) but I have never tried that way so can't comment.




+1 for Hd800 with the LC
I'm also using an Audio GD r2r Dac... Absolutely no issues with treble using this combination. No mods to hd800's either. I specifically purchased this Dac/amp after reading several positive reviews while using the hd800.


----------



## bearFNF

I found the 650s to be uncomfortable for my big head, too. The 800s are extremely comfortable. 

As for sound, of the three I like the 800 best. Did not care for the HD800S. HD650s were behind the HD800S.


----------



## Oldfella

I run the HD800,and the HE1000. At 76 years old, i don't have any trouble with the treble peak. I did get to try the S,but prefer the original.


----------



## Peti

lenroot77 said:


> +1 for Hd800 with the LC
> I'm also using an Audio GD r2r Dac... Absolutely no issues with treble using this combination. No mods to hd800's either. I specifically purchased this Dac/amp after reading several positive reviews while using the hd800.


 

 Funny, I have a DAC-19, too. Is it a coincidence we came to the same conclusion?


----------



## lenroot77

peti said:


> Funny, I have a DAC-19, too. Is it a coincidence we came to the same conclusion?




Ha nice! It's a great sound! I'd like to think the LC and Dac 19 are going to last me a very long time. Dare I say "end game"? 

Having just received the hd800's this week I'm amazed by their sound. I've never heard any headphones in this price range before. Just outstanding! I've yet to get/make a balanced cable for them either.


----------



## Peti

lenroot77 said:


> Ha nice! It's a great sound! I'd like to think the LC and Dac 19 are going to last me a very long time. Dare I say "end game"?
> 
> Having just received the hd800's this week I'm amazed by their sound. I've never heard any headphones in this price range before. Just outstanding! I've yet to get/make a balanced cable for them either.


 

 Great! Just a friendly advice: Never dare to try the Liquid Crimson or Liquid Gold with the DAC 19 otherwise you will end up selling your Carbon! 
  
 I did try those amps and the Tungsten as well, and now I'm saving up for one of them...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

> well actually i like how my 650hd sounds, i just dont like how it fits on my head. and tbh i had the valhalla 2 for a while and it was pretty neutral and i didn't notice any improvement over my old o2odac.  I do like the mk3 + 650s the best so far, even if it is too dark on some songs it sounds very nice. I just want something more comfortable that i can wear all day. my ears arent super huge, but they touch the 650s in a way that makes me fidget every seconds, and i like how the HD800's are D shaped and very big but have thin pads.


 
  
 If the HD650 is too dark, sell and get the 600. It's cheaper and more neutral. If you want something closed back, the new Fostex Massdrop stuff is worth a look.
  
 On the subject of tonal color: for ages I couldn't handle HD800 with pop records (Paparazzi, telephone, call me maybe)—DavidMahler sums up the problem in his flagship review when he muses that with a brightly-mastered pop record "you might find yourself reaching for a different set of headphones". Since going multibit, and with a bit of EQ, they seem to be able to do everything. HE-6 still has deeper bass, but it can't make up for the soundstage deficit.


----------



## fjrabon

Just joined the club. They arrive on Thursday. Will probably end up doing one of the mods to tame the treble and add a bit of bass, but will spend at least a few weeks stock. 

Anybody have a rec on a good, cheapish, 3.5mm terminated 1.2m cable? Doesn't have to be super top end, as this will be more for bumming around the house on a portable amp. For serious critical listening I'll be using either the stock cable or a balanced cable.


----------



## PLUSSOUND

fjrabon said:


> Just joined the club. They arrive on Thursday. Will probably end up doing one of the mods to tame the treble and add a bit of bass, but will spend at least a few weeks stock.
> 
> Anybody have a rec on a good, cheapish, 3.5mm terminated 1.2m cable? Doesn't have to be super top end, as this will be more for bumming around the house on a portable amp. For serious critical listening I'll be using either the stock cable or a balanced cable.


 

 Welcome to the club!
  
 We offer several cable options. If you have any questions or need recommendations, please don't hesitate to ask. We are here to help.
 http://www.plussoundaudio.com/customcables/headphone.html


----------



## ruthieandjohn

fjrabon said:


> Just joined the club. They arrive on Thursday. Will probably end up doing one of the mods to tame the treble and add a bit of bass, but will spend at least a few weeks stock.
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody have a rec on a good, cheapish, 3.5mm terminated 1.2m cable? Doesn't have to be super top end, as this will be more for bumming around the house on a portable amp. For serious critical listening I'll be using either the stock cable or a balanced cable.



 


See my post 22928 earlier in this thread... here is the main part:



> speaking of cables...
> 
> I just got this one for the HD 800 today...
> 
> ...


----------



## Zoom25

HD 800 for neutral through and through. For coloured and pleasing sessions, it might perhaps be preferable to just get something like the LCD-2 instead of a HD 800 S? I haven't heard the HD 800 S, but the LCD-2 are one of the most pleasing while being resolving.


----------



## ubs28

If you're coming from the HD 650, then the HD 800 S is the way to go.

Also try out the Hifiman Edition X.


----------



## fjrabon

ruthieandjohn said:


> fjrabon said:
> 
> 
> > Just joined the club. They arrive on Thursday. Will probably end up doing one of the mods to tame the treble and add a bit of bass, but will spend at least a few weeks stock.
> ...


 

 oh, that's intriguing.  Although the volume control probably is useless for me since I'll be using the dragonfly red most of the time with the phone, and unfortunately it can't pass through controls.  

 Anybody have any experience with THIS CABLE?  Can't find any reviews on it anywhere, but it's otherwise what I am looking for.


----------



## shultzee

beztis said:


> hey do any of you guys still think that the HD800 is worth buying? I know lot of people are saying that the hd800's were kind of a mistake and have too painful highs and sold their hd800's for the new HD800S, but I refuse to spend that much money on headphones when there's still so many homeless people here in america. However, the price of the hd800's have dropped quite a bit, though is that because nobody likes them anymore? do you any of you still like the HD800? I am very treble sensitive and perfer a warm pleasurable sound but I have a littledot mk3 tube amp with  NOS 1963 m8100s, and with my hd650s it actually sounds "too dark" for me... so would that be a good end game/end life pairing with the HD800? or should i just wait for the price of the hD800S to come down?


 

 The HD800 is one of the best HP's ever made.   Of course everyone hears things slightly different but if you want revealing HP's, clarity , accuracy they are amazing.


----------



## fjrabon

shultzee said:


> The HD800 is one of the best HP's ever made.   Of course everyone hears things slightly different but if you want revealing HP's, clarity , accuracy they are amazing.




Also, unlike almost any other headphone, it's "problems" can entirely be "solved" by EQ and crossfeed. You can't use DSP to make a headphone more resolving or less distorted or less ringing. But you can completely fix too much treble, not enough bass and a disconnected large soundstage with the right software. 

I think of the HD800 as a blank canvas that you can make sound however you want if you know what you're doing.


----------



## DavidA

fjrabon said:


> Anybody have any experience with THIS CABLE?  Can't find any reviews on it anywhere, but it's otherwise what I am looking for.


 
 Nice looking cable, and seems to be reasonably priced.  Only thing is can't tell from pictures how flexible it is or is it mocrophonic.  If you do get it post back on what you think of it.


----------



## thecrow

beztis said:


> hey do any of you guys still think that the HD800 is worth buying? I know lot of people are saying that the hd800's were kind of a mistake and have too painful highs and sold their hd800's for the new HD800S, but I refuse to spend that much money on headphones when there's still so many homeless people here in america. However, the price of the hd800's have dropped quite a bit, though is that because nobody likes them anymore? do you any of you still like the HD800? I am very treble sensitive and perfer a warm pleasurable sound but I have a littledot mk3 tube amp with  NOS 1963 m8100s, and with my hd650s it actually sounds "too dark" for me... so would that be a good end game/end life pairing with the HD800? or should i just wait for the price of the hD800S to come down?


I love my hd800. 

But for those that are treble sensitive and dont want to spend money or gear and cables trying to tame it then i recommend sussing out the beyer t1. Either 1st gen (second hand) or 2nd gen. A good tweak from the hd800


----------



## fjrabon

davida said:


> Nice looking cable, and seems to be reasonably priced.  Only thing is can't tell from pictures how flexible it is or is it mocrophonic.  If you do get it post back on what you think of it.




Bought it. Will report back in a week or so.


----------



## johnjen

fjrabon said:


> Also, unlike almost any other headphone, it's "problems" can entirely be "solved" by EQ and crossfeed. You can't use DSP to make a headphone more resolving or less distorted or less ringing. But you can completely fix too much treble, not enough bass and a disconnected large soundstage with the right software.
> 
> I think of the HD800 as a blank canvas that you can make sound however you want if you know what you're doing.


 
 800's are eminently tweakable and to degrees that other HP's aren't.
 They are built to be rebuilt which means they can be taken apart and reassembled easily, repeatedly.
 Which lends them to be modded and experimented with.
 This along with DSP, & other s/w tools etc, can be combined to tailor these cans to achieve TotL performance aimed to suit your desired tastes.
  
 The 'downside', if you want to call it that is, you do need to "know what you're doing", or be willing to learn.
 And it really isn't all that hard, but it is a complex subject…
  
 JJ


----------



## audiojun

thecrow said:


> I love my hd800.
> 
> But for those that are treble sensitive and dont want to spend money or gear and cables trying to tame it then i recommend sussing out the beyer t1. Either 1st gen (second hand) or 2nd gen. A good tweak from the hd800




so you just recommended a brighter headphone the T1 for treble sensitive folks?

I done some of the mods, SDR and sbaf absorber to my HD 800 it brought the treble down enough but still brighter than an HD 650. But it made the HD800 more enjoyable for me.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Oh just go Audeze. Even the LCD-2 is great, though obviously LCD-4 is where it's at.


----------



## Mambosenior

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Oh just go Audeze. Even the LCD-2 is great, though obviously LCD-4 is where it's at.




Yes, or just strap two 16-inch Velodyne subwoofers to your ears plus a neck brace and get equal pleasure.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I've never heard Solti's ride of the valkyries with the Vienna philharmonic sound as beautiful as it did three hours ago on an lcd4 and wa5. I love the hd800, but the notion that lcd series can't do orchestral is a result of sheep, echo chambers, and perhaps mediocre dacs and amps.


----------



## DavidA

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I've never heard Solti's ride of the valkyries with the Vienna philharmonic sound as beautiful as it did three hours ago on an lcd4 and wa5. I love the hd800, but the notion that lcd series can't do orchestral is a result of sheep, echo chambers, and perhaps mediocre dacs and amps.


 
 I actually got to hear Ride of the Valkyries live in Vienna many years ago (1995), my ex-wife actually planned our trip so that we were able to take in 3 concerts while traveling around Europe.  This is one thing that I wish we had more of in Hawaii, not many live performance these days for most types of music, best I get is a jazz club that is within walking distance from where I live.


----------



## Peti

davida said:


> I actually got to hear Ride of the Valkyries live in Vienna many years ago (1995), my ex-wife actually planned our trip so that we were able to take in 3 concerts while traveling around Europe.
> 
> That might have been a helluva trip from Aloha land!


----------



## DavidA

peti said:


> davida said:
> 
> 
> > I actually got to hear Ride of the Valkyries live in Vienna many years ago (1995), my ex-wife actually planned our trip so that we were able to take in 3 concerts while traveling around Europe.
> ...


 

 Longest plan rides ever with 2 stops each way, really need the transporter from Star Trek


----------



## Mambosenior

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I've never heard Solti's ride of the valkyries with the Vienna philharmonic sound as beautiful as it did three hours ago on an lcd4 and wa5. I love the hd800, but the notion that lcd series can't do orchestral is a result of sheep, echo chambers, and perhaps mediocre dacs and amps.




Definitely the sheep!

(C'mon sir, I'm just razzing. My spell check on my phone has a mind of its own also.) Thank goodness there is that nice company named Schiit to assist us with getting away with some, well, schiit on these forums.


----------



## DivineCurrent

I tried the Hifiman HE-400i for a few weeks before returning, but i was very impressed with them, except for the sudden drop of frequencies from 10khz to 15khz. I just prefered the smoother sound of the HD650 for general listening. But, i do want to give the HD800 a chance, mostly because people say they do classical extremely well. If i liked the sound of the HE-400i, how much better are the HD800 in terms of smoother more natural midrange and treble? I really don't mind if they are sibilant with other genres, as they will probably only be used with well recorded instrumental music.


----------



## Mambosenior

Only way to avoid sibilance is to not listen to Diana Krall recordings!

(But, you'll be missing some exquisite sibilancing [sic].)


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

For classical, HD800 is _the_ headphone. Get a good multibit dac (I rec multifrost) and most of the sibilance is taken off the table, especially if you have a tube amp (hello, Vali 2!).


----------



## DavidA

achelgeson said:


> I tried the Hifiman HE-400i for a few weeks before returning, but i was very impressed with them, except for the sudden drop of frequencies from 10khz to 15khz. I just prefered the smoother sound of the HD650 for general listening. But, i do want to give the HD800 a chance, mostly because people say they do classical extremely well. If i liked the sound of the HE-400i, how much better are the HD800 in terms of smoother more natural midrange and treble? I really don't mind if they are sibilant with other genres, as they will probably only be used with well recorded instrumental music.


 
 Yes they do very well for classical that is well mastered/recorded but if you feed them c_ _ _ you will get c _ _ _ sound.  Another thing to consider is your audio chain, while the O2 is a decent amp its a c _ _ _ pairing with the HD-800, @fjrabon gave a good explanation about this a few pages back.
  
 I think the mids on the HE-400i are better (my preference) since they are better balanced with the over all sound of the HE-400i.  Highs on the HD-800 are quite a bit better than the HE-400i, extended and clear except for the spike that bothers some.


----------



## fjrabon

davida said:


> Yes they do very well for classical that is well mastered/recorded but if you feed them c_ _ _ you will get c _ _ _ sound.  Another thing to consider is your audio chain, while the O2 is a decent amp its a c _ _ _ pairing with the HD-800, @fjrabon
> gave a good explanation about this a few pages back.
> 
> I think the mids on the HE-400i are better (my preference) since they are better balanced with the over all sound of the HE-400i.  Highs on the HD-800 are quite a bit better than the HE-400i, extended and clear except for the spike that bothers some.



I think that was in the He400i thread where I talked about why the O2 is a bad match (weird that the HE400i thread got derailed with HD800 talk the same time the HD800 thread shifted to HE400i talk). 

In any regard, one of the main issues people had with the HD800 is that its second harmonic is fairly weak. This is part of what gives the HD800 it's signature thin bright sound. It's also why people tend to like it with tube amps. The O2 also has a very weak 2nd harmonic, which is why people feel that it sounds bright despite measuring completely flat. So when the two are combined they multiply each other's problems.


----------



## longbowbbs

fjrabon said:


> davida said:
> 
> 
> > Yes they do very well for classical that is well mastered/recorded but if you feed them c_ _ _ you will get c _ _ _ sound.  Another thing to consider is your audio chain, while the O2 is a decent amp its a c _ _ _ pairing with the HD-800, @fjrabon
> ...


 
 The HD800 and a great SET amp are magic. Get your tubes in order and it is a great way to listen to your favorite tunes.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

davida said:


> Yes they do very well for classical that is well mastered/recorded but if you feed them c_ _ _ you will get c _ _ _ sound.  Another thing to consider is your audio chain, while the O2 is a decent amp its a c _ _ _ pairing with the HD-800, @fjrabon gave a good explanation about this a few pages back.
> 
> I think the mids on the HE-400i are better (my preference) since they are better balanced with the over all sound of the HE-400i.  Highs on the HD-800 are quite a bit better than the HE-400i, extended and clear except for the spike that bothers some.


 

 don't blame HD800 for a bad dac. Multi frost took care of 99% of my sibilance issues and made even 1930s/40s recordings tolerable.


----------



## defbear

I bought a Norne Draug 2 balanced cable for my hd800 set. I believe the cable has gotten better with use. The other 'Mod' was to buy a Liquid Carbon and then a Master 11 while waiting for the LC. There's cheaper ways to go about solving the hd800. Seriously, where I did have the usual treble problems with the hd800 that has vanished. I'm sure it's both the cable and headphone burning in. This combo sounds great on every setup I plug it into now.


----------



## Peti

defbear said:


> I bought a Norne Draug 2 balanced cable for my hd800 set. I believe the cable has gotten better with use. The other 'Mod' was to buy a Liquid Carbon and then a Master 11 while waiting for the LC. There's cheaper ways to go about solving the hd800. Seriously, where I did have the usual treble problems with the hd800 that has vanished. I'm sure it's both the cable and headphone burning in. This combo sounds great on every setup I plug it into now.




That's pretty similar to my way. Carbon is coming in August, DAC-19 Anniversary is already around, but I might end up selling the carbon and save up for a crimson 

The Draug makes a noticeable different in your opinion?


----------



## DavidA

bosiemoncrieff said:


> don't blame HD800 for a bad dac. Multi frost took care of 99% of my sibilance issues and made even 1930s/40s recordings tolerable.


 
 Where did I blame the HD-800 for a bad DAC?  My mention of the O2 does not include the ODAC, I would have stated it as ODAC/O2 if I wanted to mention the ODAC.
  
 FWIW I also have a Bimby, its ok but I prefer the UD-301, a little more dynamic sounding DAC with the added benefit of a amp section that seems to pair well with my EL8, Grados and Grado like builds (SennGrado, Magnum and soon Ypsilon driver)


----------



## FLTWS

mambosenior said:


> Only way to avoid sibilance is to not listen to Diana Krall recordings!
> 
> (But, you'll be missing some exquisite sibilancing [sic].)


 
  
 In addition to the occasional sibilance (which may also be emphasized by the recording hardware and setup), I also detect a slight "lisp-y" quality to her voice at times, all of which contributes to her unique vocal presentation. It's her ability to impart the lyrics with an emotional content and impact that I find compelling.The arrangements are top notch as well.


----------



## McClelland

Just starting to compare the LCD-Xs I've been listening to with a used set of HD800's that just arrived. The strongest first impression is an unexpected one, as it is almost architectural rather than sonic.  The HD800's are creating clear and wonderful sound in a large neutral chamber with a high ceiling and invisible speakers.  The LCD-Xs create their own distinct environment and it's more like a plush and very well tuned, dedicated listening room.  Listening with a Gumby/MJ2 combo with Amperex orange label tubes and judging by many comments this maybe why now frequency related issues are jumping out at me.


----------



## Sorrodje

Thks. I'm interested in your thoughts . i'm doing the same comparison ( HD800SD vs LCD-X 2016 drivers) currently


----------



## McClelland

I'll post more tonight if I get some time before I travel.  Otherwise will be exploring more when I have time starting this coming weekend. I'll be interested to see how the different kinesthetic experiences play out over time.  Short of HP's being strikingly uncomfortable I've always had the sense that it was the sound, the sound, the sound in a way that wasn't dependent on the overall design details. Something new has been woven in with 800's for me that seems structural but inseparable from the sonic characteristics.


----------



## McClelland

Another first impression as they always seem important.  There seems to be a cooler silence/space between notes and  instruments in the HD800's, where the LCD-X's have a warmer, softer silence.  They SQ strike me as just as distinct and resonant, but richer.  I don't think I am saying anything new when I think of the impressions I've read of both HPs.


----------



## Beztis

cus YOLO i'm gonna try the HD800s again, i hear that they tend to sound sharp only if u don't drive them properly, so gonna do it up with the warmest thing - my LDMK3 OTL tube amp, with 1962 Mullard m8100s 
  
 also if that ends up being too sharp, would an EQ like this be ideal? or what? cus i saw a bunch of EQ threads, with all kinds of crazy software that make me so confused, i rather just use the EQ in Foobar....should i do something like this if the hd800 is too sharp even with the mk3?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

davida said:


> Where did I blame the HD-800 for a bad DAC?  My mention of the O2 does not include the ODAC, I would have stated it as ODAC/O2 if I wanted to mention the ODAC.
> 
> FWIW I also have a Bimby, its ok but I prefer the UD-301, a little more dynamic sounding DAC with the added benefit of a amp section that seems to pair well with my EL8, Grados and Grado like builds (SennGrado, Magnum and soon Ypsilon driver)


 

 Misread your OP, apologies.


----------



## Hansotek

beztis said:


> cus YOLO i'm gonna try the HD800s again, i hear that they tend to sound sharp only if u don't drive them properly, so gonna do it up with the warmest thing - my LDMK3 OTL tube amp, with 1962 Mullard m8100s
> 
> also if that ends up being too sharp, would an EQ like this be ideal? or what? cus i saw a bunch of EQ threads, with all kinds of crazy software that make me so confused, i rather just use the EQ in Foobar....should i do something like this if the hd800 is too sharp even with the mk3?



You really only need to dip 5khz and 7khz. 

Yes. Proper amp and DAC will really help get the job done. The HD800 is so revealing, you can hear just about everything in your chain. I switched power conditioners recently and, while it shouldn't have been that stark of a difference, it totally was. Same with other stuff like RCAs and USBs - changes I'd never notice on another HP actually make an audible difference on the HD800. It's freakin' impressive!


----------



## Me x3

beztis said:


> Spoiler: (...)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Here you have the frequency response of my Sennheiser HD800 (sn. 22xxx) for reference.
  

  
 The dip between 2kHz and 5kHz is a good thing most of the times.
 It makes the sound less intrusive, less shouty and more speaker like.
  
 The peak centered at 5800Hz is a bit too high and it's the main cause of HD800's love/hate nature.
 A parametric equalizer should be used to address the peak precisely.
  
 The peak over 10kHz is not that relevant and it's dependent on the measuring techniques.


----------



## fjrabon

Well, cable and HD800 came today. Except instead of the Hd800 this was in the box


The cable looks great, no idea how it sounds. Boxed up the gamer headset up and sent it back. They should have my Hd800 to me by Tuesday. Unfortunately I'm out of town until Thursday. 

Eh, such is life. Sent back my Hd800 loaner yesterday, so now I have to slum it with the He400i and thx00. How will I live?


----------



## icebear

... you are not kidding, right?
 I hope you are not being had with the purchase of the HD800 and you will get what you paid for or was the offer too good to be true?


----------



## fjrabon

icebear said:


> :eek: ... you are not kidding, right?
> I hope you are not being had with the purchase of the HD800 and you will get what you paid for or was the offer too good to be true?



It's a pretty large/reputable seller. Sometimes with big warehouses stuff gets mixed up. At *this* point it's not a big deal to me. There's also a chance that if they don't have the like new in the box unit I ordered, I'll get a sealed new unit for the like new in the box price. If they pull funny business they'll get hit with an Amex chargeback and Amazon can revoke their seller privileges which given their size I don't think they want to mess with.


----------



## DavidA

fjrabon said:


> It's a pretty large/reputable seller. Sometimes with big warehouses stuff gets mixed up. At *this* point it's not a big deal to me. There's also a chance that if they don't have the like new in the box unit I ordered, I'll get a sealed new unit for the like new in the box price. If they pull funny business they'll get hit with an Amex chargeback and Amazon can revoke their seller privileges which given their size I don't think they want to mess with.


 
 I've gotten mixed up orders from Amazon in the pass and it was corrected really quickly, for some companies their Amazon affiliation is very important so they really try to keep customers happy.


----------



## Sennheiser

fjrabon said:


> It's a pretty large/reputable seller. Sometimes with big warehouses stuff gets mixed up. At *this* point it's not a big deal to me. There's also a chance that if they don't have the like new in the box unit I ordered, I'll get a sealed new unit for the like new in the box price. If they pull funny business they'll get hit with an Amex chargeback and Amazon can revoke their seller privileges which given their size I don't think they want to mess with.


 
 Sorry to hear this. Hope you'll get your HD 800 soon!


----------



## Sennheiser

And here's a video of a YouTuber enjoying his brand new HD 800 and HDVD 800:


----------



## potkettleblack

That combination for a Black Sabbath album is on par with Miles Davies through a pair of ultrasones.


----------



## Astral Abyss

potkettleblack said:


> That combination for a Black Sabbath album is on par with Miles Davies through a pair of ultrasones.


 
  
 The backwards baseball hat probably enhances the sound even more.


----------



## FLTWS

At first I thought it was a "Saturday Nite Live" skit. Gotta" give him credit for his enthusiasm and snappy delivery. I wasn't able to tell if his tongue was firmly pinned to his cheek or not. State of the art Head Phones but a low res TT. C'mon, a SOTA with vacuum to pull that Black Sabbath LP down flat would have saved that phono stylus from having to do the wave with every revolution!
  
 First good laugh of the day for me, a positive start for the rest of today.


----------



## Beztis

fjrabon said:


> Well, cable and HD800 came today. Except instead of the Hd800 this was in the box
> 
> 
> The cable looks great, no idea how it sounds. Boxed up the gamer headset up and sent it back. They should have my Hd800 to me by Tuesday. Unfortunately I'm out of town until Thursday.
> ...


 
  
  
 dang dude, you took that extremely well. I guess that's why you were able to get far enough in life to afford HD800s. If it happened to me i would have blown up on the internet, screamed in my parent's voice mail, told everybody i knew that my life was hell and i was going to commit suicide, and ended the day in the psych ward again. 
  
 You are an inspiration to me! cus you show that you can calm down and breathe, let it go and be patient and find a solution rather than go crazy and end up costing yourself much more than a thousand dollar headphone <3 
  
 but then again i wonder maybe the world is my hell and its just showing me you to make me more miserable as a way of taunting me.... *sigh* i think i should go lay down again.


----------



## Astral Abyss

beztis said:


> dang dude, you took that extremely well. I guess that's why you were able to get far enough in life to afford HD800s. If it happened to me i would have blown up on the internet, screamed in my parent's voice mail, told everybody i knew that my life was hell and i was going to commit suicide, and ended the day in the psych ward again.
> 
> You are an inspiration to me! cus you show that you can calm down and breathe, let it go and be patient and find a solution rather than go crazy and end up costing yourself much more than a thousand dollar headphone <3
> 
> but then again i wonder maybe the world is my hell and its just showing me you to make me more miserable as a way of taunting me.... *sigh* i think i should go lay down again.


 
  
 The older you get, the less this bothers you, and sadly, the more you just expect incompetence.


----------



## DavidA

astral abyss said:


> The older you get, the less this bothers you, and sadly, the more you just expect incompetence.


 
 I can relate to this.


----------



## fjrabon

beztis said:


> dang dude, you took that extremely well. I guess that's why you were able to get far enough in life to afford HD800s. If it happened to me i would have blown up on the internet, screamed in my parent's voice mail, told everybody i knew that my life was hell and i was going to commit suicide, and ended the day in the psych ward again.
> 
> You are an inspiration to me! cus you show that you can calm down and breathe, let it go and be patient and find a solution rather than go crazy and end up costing yourself much more than a thousand dollar headphone <3
> 
> but then again i wonder maybe the world is my hell and its just showing me you to make me more miserable as a way of taunting me.... *sigh* i think i should go lay down again.


 

 I just refuse to let stuff like this impact my happiness.  There are much bigger things in the world than a tiny bit more resolution in a dynamic headphone.


----------



## shultzee

fjrabon said:


> beztis said:
> 
> 
> > dang dude, you took that extremely well. I guess that's why you were able to get far enough in life to afford HD800s. If it happened to me i would have blown up on the internet, screamed in my parent's voice mail, told everybody i knew that my life was hell and i was going to commit suicide, and ended the day in the psych ward again.
> ...


 

 I am not sure about that


----------



## FLTWS

davida said:


> I can relate to this.


 
  
 Ditto. I guess it's just the new order of things, the new norm.


----------



## koiloco

fjrabon said:


> I just refuse to let stuff like this impact my happiness.  There are much bigger things in the world than a tiny bit more resolution in a dynamic headphone.


 
 I detect 1 big implied contradiction in your statement.


----------



## Yoga

Just in case some HD800 owners have missed this before, this is a must have:
  
 http://sonarworks.com/headphones/overview/
  
 Calibration software for pro audio. Seriously good, no HW mods needed.
  
 You can use an application (OSX) called Audio Hijack to output all system (or specific application) audio through it.


----------



## Peti

yoga said:


> Just in case some HD800 owners have missed this before, this is a must have:
> 
> http://sonarworks.com/headphones/overview/
> 
> ...


 

 I'm religiously against any kind of EQ-ing, but it seems that everyone is crazy about SonarWorks and HD800 so I think I should'a give it a go!


----------



## Rayzilla

fjrabon said:


> Well, cable and HD800 came today. Except instead of the Hd800 this was in the box
> 
> 
> The cable looks great, no idea how it sounds. Boxed up the gamer headset up and sent it back. They should have my Hd800 to me by Tuesday. Unfortunately I'm out of town until Thursday.
> ...


 
 How will you live??? Can you imagine the look of the guy's face that ordered that headphone and instead received a pair of HD800? He must be going ballistic like Beztis (sorry Beztis, I just had to throw you in there because it fit the situation so well, lol). He had been waiting anxiously for his gamer headphones and then receives this in the mail. I bet he would send them back immediately and blast the company for sending him such 'Princess Leia" filth. Oh wait, he might be into that Star Wars stuff so maybe he won't take it too hard and fantasize/cross-dress with them for a bit first before returning them.
  
 Okaaaaaayyyyy... back to my still favourite headphone (even after trying out the HD800S for a short while)...


----------



## Yoga

peti said:


> I'm religiously against any kind of EQ-ing, but it seems that everyone is crazy about SonarWorks and HD800 so I think I should'a give it a go!


 

 I was too, until I built a production studio. Even with top end monitors and room treatment, using sonarworks with the speakers was a revelation. I tried the HD800 and was sold instantly.
  
 There's a wet/dry mix knob too, so you can fine tune the amount of EQ that's applied.
  
 It's vital that you *enable* the *Avoid Clipping* option, otherwise you'll get distortion.


----------



## johnjen

yoga said:


> I was too, until I built a production studio. Even with top end monitors and room treatment, using sonarworks with the speakers was a revelation. I tried the HD800 and was sold instantly.
> 
> There's a wet/dry mix knob too, so you can fine tune the amount of EQ that's applied.
> 
> It's vital that you *enable* the *Avoid Clipping* option, otherwise you'll get distortion.


 
 An alternative to using the "*Avoid Clipping* option" is to set the amount to say -6dB and not use this feature.
 I found it was a little excessive in its attempts to deal with clipping.
 And pay attention to the input overload 'leds' as well, as they need a different solution than the built in output clip control.
  
 I discussed this in a post a ways back.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/781268/the-diyrs-cookbook/210#post_12300653
  
 JJ


----------



## Yoga

johnjen said:


> An alternative to using the "*Avoid Clipping* option" is to set the amount to say -6dB and not use this feature.
> I found it was a little excessive in its attempts to deal with clipping.
> And pay attention to the input overload 'leds' as well, as they need a different solution than the built in output clip control.
> 
> ...


 

 The auto clipping amount depends on how much the EQ has been pushed. On my HD800 it automatically hits -8.1dB, on my reference speaker setup it will go to -6.8dB. I can't really see the need to set it manually below that, as the 1-2dB difference is a negligible compensational increase of volume. Especially in a production environment, not worth the risk! :¬)
  
 Why would your input be clipping?


----------



## johnjen

Much depends upon what other processes are being used in DSP and in what sequence.
  
 Mostly if the input to the sonarworks is already clipped (as evidenced by the clip leds) then that needs to be dealt with BEFORE the output should be reduced.
  
 As for using the automatic setting, what I have seen are up to 20dB reduction, which is WAY to much.
  
 So if 8 or 10dB is enough then use that.
 But if a BIG transient is sent to the plugin, the automatic clip function will respond accordingly, which can sometimes be over the top.
  
 AND using a fixed reduction means the entire signal processing chain becomes much more consistent.
  
 Just a few thoughts.
  
 JJ


----------



## DivineCurrent

+1 for Sonarworks. Granted I've only tried the HD650 on the software, but it improves the 650's sound balance by a huge amount.


----------



## sysfail

Yeah the HD800 + Sonarworks is audio bliss and you can fine tune it any way you like so easily.


----------



## johnjen

And there are 2 different compensation curves available for the 800's and the 650's.
 One has no limits in terms of the bandwidth, while the other cuts off the very bottom end and 'softens' the very top end.
  
 I prefer the no limits curves myself.
  
 JJ


----------



## Yoga

johnjen said:


> And there are 2 different compensation curves available for the 800's and the 650's.
> One has no limits in terms of the bandwidth, while the other cuts off the very bottom end and 'softens' the very top end.
> 
> I prefer the no limits curves myself.
> ...


 

 Is that the 'B' profile that was posted on this forum? Taken from a single headphone. 
  
 Regarding your previous post - I assumed people would be using only Sonarworks in the audio chain, but of course yes, there could be any number of plugins placed before it in the processing chain.
  
 I do that with audio production, and do as you said before, set the output clip manually to about -2dB :¬)


----------



## johnjen

The no limits curve is the standard averaged curve, but with the 'additional' bottom and top end compensation removed.
  
 JJ


----------



## Yoga

I believe that is the preset 'B'. Thanks.


----------



## NaiveSound

Hello everyone, I have a dx80 to chord mojo... And a he 400i. I'm coming from. A se846 which had (to me great clarity) 400i lacks clarity

Everyone recommends me hd800. Is my Mojo worthy of powering this hd800 out? I listen to a lot of electronic music (minimal) and downtempo , also classic rock, and pop from all ages. Truly to me Soundstage isn't a big thing. Expecially for electronic music

Does hd800 force Soundstage on every track

Please guide me the right way. 

Financially all I can do is save $ and sell the he 400i and get a used hd800


----------



## vc1187

naivesound said:


> Hello everyone, I have a dx80 to chord mojo... And a he 400i. I'm coming from. A se846 which had (to me great clarity) 400i lacks clarity
> 
> Everyone recommends me hd800. Is my Mojo worthy of powering this hd800 out? I listen to a lot of electronic music (minimal) and downtempo , also classic rock, and pop from all ages. Truly to me Soundstage isn't a big thing. Expecially for electronic music
> 
> ...


 

 Do yourself a favor and don't go the HD800 route.  The music that you listen to does not sound exceptional with the HD800 regardless of equipment that you throw at it.
 Something like an LCD-X may work wonderfully, and it's easy to drive.


----------



## Me x3

naivesound said:


> Hello everyone, I have a dx80 to chord mojo... And a he 400i. I'm coming from. A se846 which had (to me great clarity) 400i lacks clarity
> 
> Everyone recommends me hd800. Is my Mojo worthy of powering this hd800 out? I listen to a lot of electronic music (minimal) and downtempo , also classic rock, and pop from all ages. Truly to me Soundstage isn't a big thing. Expecially for electronic music
> 
> ...


 

 Can you share the name of a few of your preferred songs for reference?


----------



## NaiveSound

Yes definitely, thank you for taking the time to try to help me, I truly appreciate your help

Pop. 
 Most of Michael Jackson I love
A select few of modern day pop, sia chandelier for example on vocals. 
Chris Brown in general as far as modern vocals. 

Electronic 

Mostly minimal, downtempo. 

Jurgen paape (triumph) 

Petit biscuit (sunset lover) 

Les djings (soundsystem) 

Dominique eulberg (lottusefekt) 

Certain tiesto (mid 2000s era) 


Other stuff 

Fleetwood Mac, most songs 
Dire, money for nothing 
Prince. Most 80s songs 



Rap
Certain Eminem here and there,


----------



## Me x3

naivesound said:


> Yes definitely, thank you for taking the time to try to help me, I truly appreciate your help
> 
> Pop.
> Most of Michael Jackson I love
> ...


 
  
 The HD800 is overly bright and analytical for most modern pop recordings, and bass light for the listed electronic and rap. It will be ok for your 'other stuff' but just ok.
 You should consider the Audeze LCD-2 and the Focal Elear instead.


----------



## murphythecat

me x3 said:


> The HD800 is overly bright and analytical for most modern pop recordings, and bass light for the listed electronic and rap. It will be ok for your 'other stuff' but just ok.
> You should consider the Audeze LCD-2 and the Focal Elear instead.


 
 agreed...
 but with EQ, hd800 will give lcd 2 bass type and with better mids and treble and soundstage and details. Only with eq though. if you dont plan on equing or modyfying it, for pop, rap and electronica they are not the ebst in stock form


----------



## floydfan33

Based on the recent discussions about Sonarworks, I installed the trial yesterday (using JRiver). Bought it today.

The flat curve does EVERYTHING I wanted improved on my HD800!

Better bass weight.........check
Smooth mids.........check
Some correction of harshness with poor recordings....check
Maintains soundstage, decay, and instrument separation.....check

Anyone thinking about using Sonarworks, I highly recommend it. It's easy to set up and A/B results.

Just tried it with my AT-M50x and it does wonders for those too.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Yeah I'd recommend Fostex TH900 or the new mass drop thing, perhaps the HD650, LCD-2 or X/C (I can confirm LCD-4 is sublime). However, the Hifiman HE-400i is a highly competitive product; I question the wisdom of upgrading for the sake of upgrading. Your inquiry would be better posed with a clear budget for transducer, as well as an indication of whether you plan to upgrade dac and amp.


----------



## Yoga

me x3 said:


> The HD800 is overly bright and analytical for most modern pop recordings, and bass light for the listed electronic and rap. It will be ok for your 'other stuff' but just ok.
> You should consider the Audeze LCD-2 and the Focal Elear instead.


 

 That's all true until you get Sonarworks Reference 3.
  
 If you own the HD800, you positively *must* use it. Transforms them. I use that combination for music production when not on speakers.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

My HD 800 continues to make a GREAT portable headphone, driven by the CEntrance HiFi M8 through a 4 foot cable (with iPod inline controls, which don't work on the DEntrance, but DO work on the iPod directly, which sacrifices quality, AND the FIiO X5 II, which recovers most of that quality AND works with the inline controls).

As the next upgrade, I plan to get the 5 foot Norna Draug 2 balanced XLR cable, since the CEntrance also drives balanced.


----------



## DivineCurrent

ruthieandjohn said:


> My HD 800 continues to make a GREAT portable headphone, driven by the CEntrance HiFi M8 through a 4 foot cable (with iPod inline controls, which don't work on the DEntrance, but DO work on the iPod directly, which sacrifices quality, AND the FIiO X5 II, which recovers most of that quality AND works with the inline controls).
> 
> As the next upgrade, I plan to get the 5 foot Norna Draug 2 balanced XLR cable, since the CEntrance also drives balanced.



Im loving that red paint job! Did you send it in to ColorWare?


----------



## ruthieandjohn

achelgeson said:


> Im loving that red paint job! Did you send it in to ColorWare?


 
 Yes I did, as well as the Sennheiser HDVD 800 DAC/amp (and my FIAT automobile!!!!)


----------



## DivineCurrent

That's really cool. I'm looking at the ColorWare website now, but it looks like they are only offering the customized HD800S, not the original HD800. But, I don't see why they can't paint an original HD800, as both models look exactly the same aside from color. I'll have to contact them and ask.


----------



## Me x3

yoga said:


> That's all true until you get Sonarworks Reference 3.
> 
> If you own the HD800, you positively *must* use it. Transforms them. I use that combination for music production when not on speakers.


 
 I prefer to use DMG Equilibrium when I'm on an EQ mood, I think it offers more versatility.


----------



## Yoga

me x3 said:


> I prefer to use DMG Equilibrium when I'm on an EQ mood, I think it offers more versatility.


 

 Different solutions really. SW is a 1-click affair for anybody (and does an amazing job), DMG is a rather advanced EQ for those who can tweak with their own ears and preferences.
  
 I use DMG Equilibrium also, it's a fantastic plugin. Then again, so is all of DMGs stuff :¬)


----------



## Sennheiser

ruthieandjohn said:


> Yes I did, as well as the Sennheiser HDVD 800 DAC/amp (and my FIAT automobile!!!!)


 
 AWESOME!


----------



## lenroot77

fjrabon said:


> I just refuse to let stuff like this impact my happiness.  There are much bigger things in the world than a tiny bit more resolution in a dynamic headphone.




Will u be giving us your thoughts of the hd800 on your M9XX?


----------



## fjrabon

lenroot77 said:


> Will u be giving us your thoughts of the hd800 on your M9XX?




Yeah, I had to delay re-delivery until Friday as I've been out of town at a work training/conference event. I'll definitely go into detail about how I feel about them in the m9XX after in depth listening. However I have already spent 10-20 hours listening to another pair of HD800 on the m9xx. I think it's a very good match unless you want your amp to add bass and 2nd harmonics.


----------



## biggbenn74

Coming from someone who currently has, and loves, their HD650's, what major differences am I to expect when upgrading to the HD800's? Powered by either a Schiit Magnus/ Modi combo or Darkvoice 336SE (tubes).


----------



## audiojun

biggbenn74 said:


> Coming from someone who currently has, and loves, their HD650's, what major differences am I to expect when upgrading to the HD800's? Powered by either a Schiit Magnus/ Modi combo or Darkvoice 336SE (tubes).




IMO don't upgrade from the HD650. If you want more performance just upgrade your chain and the HD650 will reap the benefits. I have an modded HD 650 and HD 800 and I often resort back to using the HD 650.

Putting 1k in upgrading your chain would be much better than getting the HD800.


----------



## Me x3

biggbenn74 said:


> Coming from someone who currently has, and loves, their HD650's, what major differences am I to expect when upgrading to the HD800's? Powered by either a Schiit Magnus/ Modi combo or Darkvoice 336SE (tubes).


 

 If you love HD650 then the main difference would be that you won't like the HD800


----------



## DavidA

biggbenn74 said:


> Coming from someone who currently has, and loves, their HD650's, what major differences am I to expect when upgrading to the HD800's? Powered by either a Schiit Magnus/ Modi combo or Darkvoice 336SE (tubes).


 
 Major differences are sound stage, details, bass.


----------



## biggbenn74

davida said:


> Major differences are sound stage, details, bass.




So the HD800's have more of all of these traits?


----------



## MikePio

biggbenn74 said:


> Coming from someone who currently has, and loves, their HD650's, what major differences am I to expect when upgrading to the HD800's? Powered by either a Schiit Magnus/ Modi combo or Darkvoice 336SE (tubes).


 
  
 I think it really depends on what your expectations are when purchasing the HD800 / S. I can tell you right now they both are totally different headphones in every shape, way and form. I have always been fan of headphones such as the K701's, W5000's, MDR SA-5000, so naturally the HD800's were a revelation to me. They improved and surpassed all the sonic capabilities and traits I so much enjoyed with so called "bright" headphones. Compared to the HD650 they offer superb imaging, separation and sound stage that is a class beyond most other dynamic headphones. They reveal details and subtle nuances so well that when "everything clicks" the sound is truly spectacular and really special. Here is the tricky part. I am sure you have heard this countless times before, but a synergistic combination of amplification and source is a must. They are ruthless in revealing poor recordings. The HD800's are the most transparent and revealing headphones that reflect and transmit precisely what you power and feed them with. In that light I am not sure how they would do being powered by the Schiit or Darkvoice, perhaps some members can give you some helpful advice on that. My 2 cents would be if you have the funds to buy the HD800's and your source and amplification is even half decent, I just cannot see how you would not appreciate the sonic capabilities of the HD800's. Plus in the future you can always know that they can only sound better, with the HD650's you will kind of hit a wall in that regard. Good luck.


----------



## audiojun

davida said:


> Major differences are sound stage, details, bass.


 
  


biggbenn74 said:


> So the HD800's have more of all of these traits?


 
  
 Not bass imo, the HD 650 extends really well I would rate them having more bass than the HD 800. Details is a tricky one too, I feel the HD 650 does has the similar amount of micro details but it's smoother and more subtle, while the HD 800 details cuts through like a sharp knife and showing you everything including the flaws. The HD 800 also is faster, with better transients.
  
  
 HD 650 has better tone, softer and smoother, smaller stage.
 HD 800 is sharper, harder, treble is easily sibilant with bad recordings, big soundstage, better transients, more transparent.
  
 edit: I don't think the HD 650 or HD 800 will ever hit a wall they both keep scaling.


----------



## DavidA

audiojun said:


> Not bass imo, the HD 650 extends really well I would rate them having more bass than the HD 800. Details is a tricky one too, I feel the HD 650 does has the similar amount of micro details but it's smoother and more subtle, while the HD 800 details cuts through like a sharp knife and showing you everything including the flaws. The HD 800 also is faster, with better transients.
> 
> 
> HD 650 has better tone, softer and smoother, smaller stage.
> ...


 

 If you read my post again I specifically didn't say better or worse since its a personal preference.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I feel like this thread has had this conversation  a dozen times—it really behooves someone new to HD800 to read it from beginning to end, as well as the legendary battle of the flagships. I see HD650 and HD800 as complementary headphones: HD800 is _the _classical phone; HD650 is the _everything else_ phone.


----------



## DavidA

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I feel like this thread has had this conversation  a dozen times—it really behooves someone new to HD800 to read it from beginning to end, as well as the legendary battle of the flagships. I see HD650 and HD800 as complementary headphones: HD800 is _the _classical phone; HD650 is the _everything else_ phone.


 
 Very good point there, they do make good complimentary headphone.
  
 All we have to do now is wait for a question on amps and we will have come full circle.


----------



## bearFNF

Or comfort too. IMO HD800 are the clear winner for comfort. YMMV.


----------



## Mahdi8

yeah comfort wise HD650 sucks. Clamp too much for my taste. But still HD650 complements HD800 well. don't think any will leave my collection


----------



## Me x3

biggbenn74 said:


> Coming from someone who currently has, and loves, their HD650's, what major differences am I to expect when upgrading to the HD800's? Powered by either a Schiit Magnus/ Modi combo or Darkvoice 336SE (tubes).


 

 If you like HD650's sound you might find that HD800 is bass light, dry and very bright.
 HD800 is sort of an improved Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro, very different from HD650.
 If you want something that's closer to HD650 but provide better technicalities, you should consider the new Focal Elear instead.
 The general consensus among those lucky ones able to try the new Elear is that it has just a tad more bass than HD650 but also clearer (distortion measurements are significantly better) and similar smoothness in the treble region.


----------



## lukeap69

I am using 2359glenn OTL amp for both my HD650 and HD800 and I can tell you that the HD800 has more bass than the HD650 IME. On my other amps, the HD650 seems to have more bass.


----------



## Me x3

lukeap69 said:


> I am using 2359glenn OTL amp for both my HD650 and HD800 and I can tell you that the HD800 has more bass than the HD650 IME. On my other amps, the HD650 seems to have more bass.


 

 Well, that's certainly possible. Coloured amplifiers can be all over the place, and the results might suit some people very well.
 Same can be said when using a quality equalizer.
  
 What's the output impedance on your 2359glenn?


----------



## audiojun

The HD 650 has more bass quantity simply because it would need to be louder to compensate for the darker treble. If you matched the volume of both headphones in according to it's treble content then HD 650 will always be more bassy, if you matched both headphones according to mids at 1khz then again HD 650 is more bass. If you match both to have the same amount of bass then the HD 800 will have more upper bass hump while the HD 650 has a 90hz hump they both extend just as low in sub frequency, when modded with dynamat the HD 650 bass extends even lower than the HD 800.

An high output impedance otl will boost the HD 800 bass at 100hz and boost the bass at 90hz for HD 650 - the impedance curves of the headphones. I could see the 800 getting bass with an otl since the impedance swing is bigger.


----------



## murphythecat

hd800 more accurate. hd650 is more fun but after a while you really miss the accuracy of hd800.
  
 then you eq hd800 to tame the highs, bring the bass and its fun and accurate and I really dont plug the hd650 anymore.
  
 I always try to listen to hd800 without eq but I always revert to using EQ.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I wish tidal had eq.


----------



## Me x3

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I wish tidal had eq.


 

 Maybe you can use an EQ running in the background with DirectSound.
 If I recall correctly, Equalizer APO can do that.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Is that for Apple devices?


----------



## Me x3

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Is that for Apple devices?


 
 I don't think so. It's for Windows.


----------



## mrmarano

biggbenn74 said:


> So the HD800's have more of all of these traits?


 
  
 Yes. And they're more comfortable.


----------



## biggbenn74

mrmarano said:


> Yes. And they're more comfortable.


 

 Wonderful. I am planning on buying a house here in the next month, so these are on the backburner for the moment. But I'm trying to gauge everything before I pull the trigger.


----------



## Hansotek

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I wish tidal had eq.




If you're a Mac user you should try Amarra for Tidal. It will give you access to a very nice equalizer. 

It also offers a significant jump in audio playback quality with much better clarity, apparent resolution, and soundstage depth and size, among other things. The changes aren't subtle. Tidal trough the browser now seems a bit grainy, un-detailed and closed-in, in comparison.

It is also only $50 or so, and there is a free 30-day trial, so you don't have to take my word for it, you can try it for yourself.

http://www.sonicstudio.com/amarra/aft.php


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

hansotek said:


> If you're a Mac user you should try Amarra for Tidal. It will give you access to a very nice equalizer.
> 
> It also offers a significant jump in audio playback quality with much better clarity, apparent resolution, and soundstage depth and size, among other things. The changes aren't subtle. Tidal trough the browser now seems a bit grainy, un-detailed and closed-in, in comparison.
> 
> ...


 

 I use the dedicated tidal player on macOS and iOS, but thanks, I'll give it a look.
  
 Also, just bought K1000, looking forward to doing an epic comparison review when they arrive.


----------



## mtoc

Folks, the newest 800 (none S) has less 6khz bump than before, right?


----------



## Me x3

mtoc said:


> Folks, the newest 800 (none S) has less 6khz bump than before, right?


 

 Don't think so...
 Where did you get that info?


----------



## fjrabon

me x3 said:


> Don't think so...
> Where did you get that info?


 

 guessing he's referring to this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/646871/new-hd-800-very-different-than-the-old-hd-800
  
 one of the longest running debates surrounding the HD800.  Also "new" there is from late 2012 forward, which I wouldn't call "newest" by any stretch.
  
 Mine is a 40,000+ serial number.  It didn't seem crazy piercing to me the way the first HD800 I bought in 2011 (and immediately sold) did.  But that's by no means scientific.  5 years old audio memory, older (perhaps less treble sensitive) ears, different system.  Even the Sennheiser FR plots don't really clear things up because nobody knows what reference curve they use and if they've kept the same one.


----------



## icebear

mtoc said:


> Folks, the newest 800 (none S) has less 6khz bump than before, right?


 

 No, the HD800 is still a great headphone and doesn't sound anything like a HE-1000


----------



## fjrabon

Using my m9XX with my HD800, some thoughts on the pairing:

1) un-EQ'd it's a bright pairing. Not harsh per se, but definitely bright and lacking bass extension. This, however, is simply how the HD800 sounds. The flip side is that it's a supremely detailed, spacious, dynamic, fast, transparent pairing as well. With Filter 2 on and crossfeed off, the soundstage is spacious, but a bit unnatural and disconnected. Crossfeed reconnects the soundstage. With the Grace's crosfeed, most headphones can get a little bit claustrophobic, sounding less headphone-y, but also less spacious. With the HD800 however, it takes the HD800s gigantic, but a bit artificial sounding soundstage and makes it realistic. I've heard bigger soundstages, but I've never heard a more realistic soundstage than this pairing (well, except what I'm about to talk about next). While I like this sound (HD800 + m9XX + Grace crossfeed, no other adjustments), it's clearly a thin sound. A detailed, dynamic sound, but yes, thin. It works for a lot of recordings extremely well. But on some recordings, especially rock recordings, it leaves a bit to be desired in the visceral impact of the music. It's like the soul got sucked out. The soundstage is also a smidgen less large than I'd ideally like, but is also perfectly acceptable.

2) Enter the above with the Sonarworks plug in. For those who don't know, this plug in simply takes measurements of the HD800, and inverses them to match your target frequency response curve. With the sonarworks plug in, we get all the benefits of the above, plus a startlingly lifelike timbre. The bass is full when it's supposed to be, the highs are delicate yet never harsh. The midrange is accurate, flipping from lush to urgent as the music does so.

One thing to note with the Sonarworks plug in is that it requires you to run your amp at a higher power level, as it limits the input signal so that it doesn't move in to clipping. With the curve I use, I usually have to run the m9XX about 8 dB higher than I do when using the HD800 unEQ'd. So, if you're a very loud listener, you might start to get into the 90s, where the Grace is slightly less clean, or if you listen crazy loud you may actually run out of power. I personally haven't gone over 85 with the sonarworks plug in, but it is something to be aware of for people listening very loudly.

This aspect is what has convinced me of the m9XX for the HD800, as the sonarworks plug in puts a lot of pressure on the amp.  With all of my other amps (which admittedly aren't powerhouses) they start to run out of current once you put the additional 8-10dB power requirement on it (which means you need about 3X as much power.  With the Grace, I had no issue.  Power stayed crisp, clean and dynamic.  Not the slightest hint of running out of steam, and I still have about 15dB of head room.

3) The final piece de resistance for me was the Goodhertz can opener crossfeed DSP plug in combined with Goodhertz's free mid-side matrix plug in. I like the Grace's crossfeed circuit a lot, but it's non-adjustable and they clearly erred on the side of being conservative with it. Which was a good choice given the variety of music and headphones that would be running out of the Grace. However, to me, it always ended up sounding a tad bit like it wasn't enough, but also that it was too much. i.e. the crossfeed circuit narrowed the soundstage too much, while also not completely connecting it. When I say "connected" about soundstage I mean the ability to turn the natural headphone soundstage of "hard right, middle, hard left" into a continuous, smooth soundstage with no "drop outs". With the Grace's crossfeed there was still a tiny bit of drop out at about 2 oclock and 10 oclock. With the Goodhertz crossfeed system I was able to get it so that the soundstage was completely connected seamlessly. If I kept my head still and closed my eyes, envisioning musicians on a stage, I would get that magical "things slip away and you think you're there" experience faster and more dramatically than any other headphone setup I've experienced. However, the soundstage was a bit closed in even though it was realistically connected. That's where the mid-side plug-in came in to play. Giving the sides a 3.5dB boost I was able to "stretch" out the soundstage, without making it disconnected again. I was able to experience a full, connected soundstage that was also wide, deep and spacious.

Putting this all together is the most wow experience I've ever had with headphones (including a SR009 + KGHSSV setup of one of my close friends). I got the transparency and dynamicism that only a headphone like the HD800, Abyss or SR009 can deliver. However, I get a much more balanced sound than any of those headphones come with stock. Timbre sounds absolutely spot on. I've heard Joshua Bell's violin in real life from 20 feet away and this sounded exactly like that. Spatial cues are interpreted and reassembled better than I've ever heard a headphone do. The sound somehow manages to be simultaneously analytical and musical. If I want to peer into the detail I can just try to focus on it, if I want to sit back and relax and enjoy it, that's totally possible too, it doesn't smash you over the head with harsh detail saying "LOOK AT ME" the detail is there, if you want it, but it can blend if that's what you want as well. It's up to you and how you want to focus on your attention. You can pay attention to a given instrument, hear the pluck of the guitarist snapping with nails and notice the difference between a flat pick. Or you can "step back" and take in the totality of the band. It's the closest sound I've ever heard to the pair of $250,000 Focal speakers I get to listen to every so often. Obviously not 100% there (headphones will never have the full body impact of speakers and with headphones as soon as you turn your head, the illusion falls a bit, as your brain expects the sound to change and it doesn't). But dang startlingly close for around $1500 total (HD800 $850, Sonarworks $79, m9XX $499, canopener $79)

So, that was a lot of words, and the m9XX barely got mentioned. However, I think my point is that this device can absolutely scale with the HD800, as part of a whole system. It's not going to fix the HD800's frequency response issues on its own, it simply reflects what the HD800 does naturally. However, with the right system, you can take advantage of the HD800's strengths, while nearly completely fixing its weaknesses. I'll likely end up buying an amp specifically for the HD800 (probably a torpedo from beezar audio) to pull out that last .01% of performance the HD800 can deliver. But make no mistake, the m9XX is a more than capable performer with the HD800, as long as you aren't expecting it to, by itself, tame the HD800's 6kHz peak and add 8 dB of bass boost. There are other tools better suited for those issues. However, the m9XX splendidly does its portion of the job.


----------



## fjrabon

Here's some pictures explaining how I have Sonarworks and the Goodhertz plug ins arranged:
  
 How I have them set up in audiohijack

 CanOpener settings.  150% is aggressive, but when paired with the mid-side correction is the most realistic.  I would only go around 80% if I didn't have the mid-side adjustment. I turn this off for binaural music.

 mid-side correction.  The 3.5 dB boost to the sides takes the crossfed realistic, yet narrow soundstage and makes it bigger.  I turn this off for binaural music.

 Sonarworks adjustment.  As you can see I wanted a slightly U-shaped correction.  Depending on the music, I will go back and forth between this and flat, which is as simple as pressing a (virtual) button.

  
 m9XX volume level is 80 for most music.  Filter 2, crossfeed off.
  
 Also, of note, make sure you have a decently powerful computer.  I'm running this on a TOTL specced 13" macbook pro, and I'm consistently using around 40% of the computer's processing power.  This is mostly due to canopener set at "most realistic" and sonarworks being run in the 100% linear phase mode.  You can run sonarworks in minimum phase mode, which is less processor hungry, and you can run canopener in one of the "less realistic" modes.  However, why go through all this trouble and then skip the last touch of quality at the end?


----------



## Me x3

fjrabon said:


> guessing he's referring to this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/646871/new-hd-800-very-different-than-the-old-hd-800
> 
> one of the longest running debates surrounding the HD800.  Also "new" there is from late 2012 forward, which I wouldn't call "newest" by any stretch.
> 
> Mine is a 40,000+ serial number.  It didn't seem crazy piercing to me the way the first HD800 I bought in 2011 (and immediately sold) did.  But that's by no means scientific.  5 years old audio memory, older (perhaps less treble sensitive) ears, different system.  Even the Sennheiser FR plots don't really clear things up because nobody knows what reference curve they use and if they've kept the same one.


 

 As far as I know, early units of the HD800 had slightly different earpads (s/n up to 8000 at least). These had a tiny bit more low bass and the treble peak was a bit louder (+1.5dB). Newer version has slightly wider earpads


----------



## fjrabon

me x3 said:


> As far as I know, early units of the HD800 had slightly different earpads (s/n up to 8000 at least). These had a tiny bit more low bass and the treble peak was a bit louder (+1.5dB). Newer version has slightly wider earpads


 

 yeah, I've exhaustively read the whole debate and talked to a Sennheiser rep (off the record) and nobody seems to really know for sure.  People even disagree about when the change started.  I've heard the earpad theory, a slight change to the interiror lining material theory and any other number of theories. I think this debate is destined to forever be unresolved.


----------



## MWSVette

me x3 said:


> As far as I know, early units of the HD800 had slightly different earpads (s/n up to 8000 at least). These had a tiny bit more low bass and the treble peak was a bit louder (+1.5dB). Newer version has slightly wider earpads


 
  
  


fjrabon said:


> yeah, I've exhaustively read the whole debate and talked to a Sennheiser rep (off the record) and nobody seems to really know for sure.  People even disagree about when the change started.  I've heard the earpad theory, a slight change to the interiror lining material theory and any other number of theories. I think this debate is destined to forever be unresolved.


 
  
 I have an early set #003xxx and recently changed the earpads.  I did not notice much change in the sound signature.  For what it is worth...


----------



## Me x3

fjrabon said:


> yeah, I've exhaustively read the whole debate and talked to a Sennheiser rep (off the record) and nobody seems to really know for sure.  People even disagree about when the change started.  I've heard the earpad theory, a slight change to the interiror lining material theory and any other number of theories. I think this debate is destined to forever be unresolved.


 
  


mwsvette said:


> I have an early set #003xxx and recently changed the earpads.  I did not notice much change in the sound signature.  For what it is worth...


 
  
 Measuring seems like a pretty easy task and can be done without extracting the earpads.

  
 Here's mine (sn. 22xxx)

 Picture quality is not that great but it's clear that it measures 2.5 cm
  
 I think early HD800 units should measure 2 cm instead.


----------



## Thenewguy007

fjrabon said:


> I've heard bigger soundstages, but I've never heard a more realistic soundstage than this pairing (well, except what I'm about to talk about next).


 
  
 Which headphones have you heard with bigger soundstages?


----------



## fjrabon

thenewguy007 said:


> Which headphones have you heard with bigger soundstages?


 

 I was saying I had heard bigger soundstage setups.  With the HD800.  Though the AudioTechnica AD700 has roughly the same soundstage as the HD800 (it has a lot of other shortcomings, but its soundstage is immense).


----------



## lum-x

I got a pair of HD800 and schiit stack. So far I am very pleased, going from ie 80 and from PC 350 Special Edition is another world. I drive them for now with schiit stack and I am very pleased, however I have 2 questions.
  
 Is it worth burning them and since i have warranty for 2 years I dont want to mod them. Is there any suggestions where I can read about EQ for HD800 as I would like to reduce the treble just a bit, especially that 6khz (I tend to use linux most of the time). Thanks and enjoy HD800 guys.


----------



## mtoc

Guys, I have another question, how is hd800 with violin music compared with other tol hps such as T1, sr009 etc?


----------



## fjrabon

lum-x said:


> I got a pair of HD800 and schiit stack. So far I am very pleased, going from ie 80 and from PC 350 Special Edition is another world. I drive them for now with schiit stack and I am very pleased, however I have 2 questions.
> 
> Is it worth burning them and since i have warranty for 2 years I dont want to mod them. Is there any suggestions where I can read about EQ for HD800 as I would like to reduce the treble just a bit, especially that 6khz (I tend to use linux most of the time). Thanks and enjoy HD800 guys.




sonarworks


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

mtoc said:


> Guys, I have another question, how is hd800 with violin music compared with other tol hps such as T1, sr009 etc?


 

 HD800 is the reigning classical champ, but *make sure* you have a multibit DAC to make the instruments sound natural and realistic. I A/B'd it with SR009 yesterday (have not heard T1), and the biggest difference is soundstage and imaging. HD800 has a better soundstage and pinpoint imaging. In terms of tone, I find HD800 is a bit heftier and sounds a bit more raw. SR009 has a more technically perfect, refined tone. It is pure and polished, HD800 lacks of some that black magic transparency. I want to say it's more masculine and the 009 more feminine, but I don't think those words are especially communicative of the underlying sonic attributes I'm trying to convey. If you can afford it get both, and hunt for an AKG K1000 on the used market, I saw one for $1500 a little while ago.


----------



## Zoom25

How do you guys find the HDVD 800 or HDVA 600 with HD 800 in either standalone mode or with higher end DACs?
  
 I've stopped using headphones in the past few months, especially on my desktop rig because of monitors. So I was thinking if the HDVD 800 could work well as a semi portable system with the HD 800 around the house, as I'd only need to carry a power cable and a digital interconnect. On the other hand, I could always use the analog input to feed it a better DAC. Thoughts?


----------



## ubs28

lum-x said:


> I got a pair of HD800 and schiit stack. So far I am very pleased, going from ie 80 and from PC 350 Special Edition is another world. I drive them for now with schiit stack and I am very pleased, however I have 2 questions.
> 
> Is it worth burning them and since i have warranty for 2 years I dont want to mod them. Is there any suggestions where I can read about EQ for HD800 as I would like to reduce the treble just a bit, especially that 6khz (I tend to use linux most of the time). Thanks and enjoy HD800 guys.


 
  
 Based on my experience, boost the low end and that will take care of the top end as well since the headphone becomes more darker sounding. 
  
 The best way to do that is threw subtractive EQ. So basically pull all the frequencies down from the mid bass to the treble. T


----------



## Beztis

so you guys don't think the HD800 will be ok for a treble sensitive if i use a OTL tube amp with vintage mullard tubes? cus my ldmk3 with mullard tubes pretty much turns everything into honey, i even got bees swarming to it on some days and i feel like it should make the hd800 much softer.  
  
 also comapring the hd800 to the hd650, what makes them superior? i mean im guessing they are more comfortable and have more soundstage, but as far as sound quality - is it really a mindblowing difference like "omg these headphones..omg. i dont need anything else in life anymore..." ? how would you describe the sound? louder? more full? i remember back when people used to say hd650 was the be all and end all :S  i guess i just cant imagine what sounds better than hd650,  like how would it feel...how would it be.. 
  
 i mean remmeber when 1080p came out and people were like omg these are the best displays...and now 4k.... idk, life is confusing, btu whatever just killing time and hoping to die asap


----------



## Hansotek

mtoc said:


> Guys, I have another question, how is hd800 with violin music compared with other tol hps such as T1, sr009 etc?




The T1 is not TOTL. It's better than mid-fi, but not TOTL.


----------



## Beztis

hansotek said:


> The T1 is not TOTL. It's better than mid-fi, but not TOTL.


 
 is the hd800 still considered TOTL or is it midfi now that there is the hD800 S ? (tbh i only consider sennheiser headphones hi/midfi, everything else feels like a scam imo. companies like hifiman and auedeze have not been around nearly as long, and they only charge higher price to give the illusion of quality)


----------



## vc1187

beztis said:


> so you guys don't think the HD800 will be ok for a treble sensitive if i use a OTL tube amp with vintage mullard tubes? cus my ldmk3 with mullard tubes pretty much turns everything into honey, i even got bees swarming to it on some days and i feel like it should make the hd800 much softer.
> 
> also comapring the hd800 to the hd650, what makes them superior? i mean im guessing they are more comfortable and have more soundstage, but as far as sound quality - is it really a mindblowing difference like "omg these headphones..omg. i dont need anything else in life anymore..." ? how would you describe the sound? louder? more full? i remember back when people used to say hd650 was the be all and end all :S  i guess i just cant imagine what sounds better than hd650,  like how would it feel...how would it be..
> 
> i mean remmeber when 1080p came out and people were like omg these are the best displays...and now 4k.... idk, life is confusing, btu whatever just killing time and hoping to die asap


 
 If you have the opportunity to audition a pair of HD800 before you make the purchase, I'd recommend that.  If you do not have that option open to you, and you're okay with purchasing a secondhand HD800, possibly re-selling if you do not like it - that is the next route I'd recommend.
  
 The sound signature of the HD800 and the HD650 are very different, so I wouldn't be surprised if you don't like the HD800 on first listen.  Clarity, detail, and speed are the advantageous sonic differences that I immediately notice when going from the HD650 to the HD800.


----------



## Beztis

vc1187 said:


> If you have the opportunity to audition a pair of HD800 before you make the purchase, I'd recommend that.  If you do not have that option open to you, and you're okay with purchasing a secondhand HD800, possibly re-selling if you do not like it - that is the next route I'd recommend.
> 
> The sound signature of the HD800 and the HD650 are very different, so I wouldn't be surprised if you don't like the HD800 on first listen.  Clarity, detail, and speed are the advantageous sonic differences that I immediately notice when going from the HD650 to the HD800.


 
 so is it a lot like hifiman headphones? i prefer pleasurable mellow sound like the 650s, which i guess the 800 S is supposed to be like?


----------



## vc1187

beztis said:


> so is it a lot like hifiman headphones? i prefer pleasurable mellow sound like the 650s


 
 Far from any HiFiMan headphone sound signature, IMO.
  
 Mellow sounding headphones like that of the HD650 from my experience would be: LCD-2, HE-500, HE1000


----------



## Hansotek

beztis said:


> so is it a lot like hifiman headphones? i prefer pleasurable mellow sound like the 650s, which i guess the 800 S is supposed to be like?




The HD800S isn't mellow, nor is it superior to the HD800. The 800S is easier to listen to on a "flawed" system because it offers some acoustic damping that will prevent further exacerbation of treble nasties the 800 drivers pick up in the system. On a summit-fi system however, the HD800 still comes out on top. It sounds more detailed, resolving and transparent - whereas the HD800S starts to sound a little flawed and muffled from being completely transparent. Since most folks aren't too keen on spending $5K or $6K on the right amps, DACs, cables, power accessories and source refinements, it is easy to see why the HD800S is seen as an upgrade by many folks. 

Of course, there is always the matter of subjective preference as well. Sometimes it's just a matter of different strokes for different folks. 

Anyway, if you're looking for "a mellow sound like the HD650", you're probably barking up the wrong tree. You should either get a really sweet OTL tube amp and DAC for the HD650, or upgrade to one of the darker step-up models like the Focal Elear, ZMF Omni, LCD 2, 3 or 4, HE1000, or SR-007.


----------



## Beztis

hansotek said:


> The HD800S isn't mellow, nor is it superior to the HD800. The 800S is easier to listen to on a "flawed" system because it offers some acoustic damping that will prevent further exacerbation of treble nasties the 800 drivers pick up in the system. On a summit-fi system however, the HD800 still comes out on top. It sounds more detailed, resolving and transparent - whereas the HD800S starts to sound a little flawed and muffled from being completely transparent. Since most folks aren't too keen on spending $5K or $6K on the right amps, DACs, cables, power accessories and source refinements, it is easy to see why the HD800S is seen as an upgrade by many folks.
> 
> Of course, there is always the matter of subjective preference as well. Sometimes it's just a matter of different strokes for different folks.
> 
> Anyway, if you're looking for "a mellow sound like the HD650", you're probably barking up the wrong tree. You should either get a really sweet OTL tube amp and DAC for the HD650, or upgrade to one of the darker step-up models like the Focal Elear, ZMF Omni, LCD 2, 3 or 4, HE1000, or SR-007.


 
 well thats weird cus Z pretty much proved that all dac/amps pretty much sound the same, unless they color sound, because an amp's job is simply to deliver power and the o2odac can be had for like 300 bucks and is as good or better than any  other dac/amp on the planet :S  I like my rube amp cus i like the warm honey sound.


----------



## Me x3

hansotek said:


> The T1 is not TOTL. It's better than mid-fi, but not TOTL.


 

 As far as I know TOTL means Top Of The Line, then the T1 fits just fine.
 Even the Shure SRH-1840 fits that definition.


----------



## fjrabon

beztis said:


> well thats weird cus Z pretty much proved that all dac/amps pretty much sound the same, unless they color sound, because an amp's job is simply to deliver power and the o2odac can be had for like 300 bucks and is as good or better than any  other dac/amp on the planet :S  I like my rube amp cus i like the warm honey sound.




I can't tell if the "z proved all amps are the same" part was a joke or not. 

Yes, an amp's job is simply to deliver power. Some of them do it better than others and electricity can be complicated. Amps also differ in the breakdown of their harmonic distortion. The O2, while having low absolute total harmonic distortion, has a lot of high order harmonic distortion, which sounds worse than lower harmonics. Amplifiers can also impact a headphone's transient response and driver control. Amplifiers also vary in their blackness of background, allowing for more or less detail. Yes, the O2 has low THD and a measured linear response, but that's not all amps do. 

I think of the HD800 as a blank canvas that you can shape to sound however you want. It's so weird to me that people freak out about frequency response so much on here, when frequency response can be very easily fixed (if you have a powerful enough amp and a headphone that doesn't distort at high levels of bass energy). 

The HD800 is at or near the best in the world at: low distortion, transient response accuracy, power handling, transmission of spatial cues. To me those are the raw qualities in a headphone that can't be "fixed." Either the headphone has them or it doesn't and no software or amp can fix those issues. Where the HD800 falls short is its response isn't really neutral. But that's nothing a good EQ can't fix. And some people want more 2nd order harmonics than the HD800 naturally produces which a tube anywhere in the signal path "fixes" that. You can make an HD800 sound exactly like an HD650 signature wise, if you know what you're doing, albeit an HD650 with better soundstage and more detail, but you can't mod a HD650 and get the HD800's transparency. 

The only headphones I've ever experienced that with the right corrections, can sound completely transparent are the HD800, Abyss and SR009. As the HD800 beats them in soundstage ability and comfort (and is cheaper) it's the king to me (putting aside the Orpheus).


----------



## ubs28

beztis said:


> so is it a lot like hifiman headphones? i prefer pleasurable mellow sound like the 650s, which i guess the 800 S is supposed to be like?




If you like a mellow smooth sounding headphone, try the HE-1000 imo.

It's way too mellow according to my ears but maybe you will like it.


----------



## vc1187

ubs28 said:


> If you like a mellow smooth sounding headphone, try the HE-1000 imo.
> 
> It's way too mellow according to my ears but maybe you will like it.


 
 I feel/felt the same way when I have the HE-1000 at around the same level of volume that I usually listen to my HD800 at... however, at louder volume levels this mellow sound signature becomes a boon to my ears and begins to really showcase the HE1000 at its best.
  
 Of course, the drawback is well... you have to actually want to or be in the mood to listen to music louder than you're used to


----------



## Hansotek

beztis said:


> well thats weird cus Z pretty much proved that all dac/amps pretty much sound the same, unless they color sound, because an amp's job is simply to deliver power and the o2odac can be had for like 300 bucks and is as good or better than any  other dac/amp on the planet :S  I like my rube amp cus i like the warm honey sound.



Ha, anybody who says they can "prove" all amps or DACs or whatever sound the same simply has not heard many amps or DACs.


----------



## lovethatsound

hansotek said:


> The HD800S isn't mellow, nor is it superior to the HD800. The 800S is easier to listen to on a "flawed" system because it offers some acoustic damping that will prevent further exacerbation of treble nasties the 800 drivers pick up in the system. On a summit-fi system however, the HD800 still comes out on top. It sounds more detailed, resolving and transparent - whereas the HD800S starts to sound a little flawed and muffled from being completely transparent. Since most folks aren't too keen on spending $5K or $6K on the right amps, DACs, cables, power accessories and source refinements, it is easy to see why the HD800S is seen as an upgrade by many folks.
> 
> Of course, there is always the matter of subjective preference as well. Sometimes it's just a matter of different strokes for different folks.
> 
> Anyway, if you're looking for "a mellow sound like the HD650", you're probably barking up the wrong tree. You should either get a really sweet OTL tube amp and DAC for the HD650, or upgrade to one of the darker step-up models like the Focal Elear, ZMF Omni, LCD 2, 3 or 4, HE1000, or SR-007.


You're very right I've 
 been running the hd800 with NO mods from a chord Dave for a while now,and they sound absolutely fantastic,or should i say stunning.Theirs no doubt in my mind,for the price you pay for a hd800,compared to other high end headphones,the hd800 is a bargain.


----------



## Hansotek

me x3 said:


> As far as I know TOTL means Top Of The Line, then the T1 fits just fine.
> Even the Shure SRH-1840 fits that definition.




I guess it depends on which line you are talking about. If it's Beyer's then, yes, I suppose it is their top offering. But in terms of the market overall, I wouldn't consider it to be a top 25 or 30 headphone these days.


----------



## Hotwire

Q: has anyone ever tried pairing the HD800 with a sub? Has it enhanced the HD800's bass for you?


----------



## Hansotek

hotwire said:


> Q: has anyone ever tried pairing the HD800 with a sub? Has it enhanced the HD800's bass for you?



Yes. It works pretty well. Though the best combo is a Fostex Th900/600/X00 with a sub. Max intensity!


----------



## fjrabon

hotwire said:


> Q: has anyone ever tried pairing the HD800 with a sub? Has it enhanced the HD800's bass for you?



Yeah it can work but you have to be REALLY careful with phase issues. Luckily bass is easier to deal with phase issues than higher frequencies.


----------



## JamieMcC

hansotek said:


> I guess it depends on which line you are talking about. If it's Beyer's then, yes, I suppose it is their top offering. But in terms of the market overall, I wouldn't consider it to be a top 25 or 30 headphone these days.


 
  
 I have had and heard theT1 in some very nice set ups, drive it well and it is a superb headphone and sonic bargain used. On the flip side drive it poorly and it would be hard to live with.
  
 Great mids,  tight fast bass and its imaging is pinpoint easily on par to the hd800 if not a tad better imho but the hd800 does layering better imho but we all have different ears and tastes


----------



## Hansotek

jamiemcc said:


> I have had and heard theT1 in some very nice set ups, drive it well and it is a superb headphone and sonic bargain used. On the flip side drive it poorly and it would be hard to live with.
> 
> Great mids,  tight fast bass and its imaging is pinpoint easily on par to the hd800 if not a tad better imho but the hd800 does layering better imho but we all have different ears and tastes




I still own the T1 and have heard it on some fantastic setups as well. I agree that the used prices of $500-$600 make it a fantastic value. It's not that I particularly dislike the headphone either, it's still a great rock headphone. It is just outclassed by at least 25-30 other headphones these days.


----------



## Me x3

hansotek said:


> I still own the T1 and have heard it on some fantastic setups as well. I agree that the used prices of $500-$600 make it a fantastic value. It's not that I particularly dislike the headphone either, it's still a great rock headphone. It is just outclassed by at least 25-30 other headphones these days.


 
 I find it really hard to make such claims as absolute truth.
 I think it's down to personal preferences and recordings used to test.

 Each time you A/B them you'll look for certain specific characteristics and make a judgement with a previous reference / a personal conception about how it should sound.
 I really understand why some people say the T1 outclasses the HD800, and I understand when people say the HD800 outclasses the T1 as well.
 Most of the times they simply weight their qualities in a different manner.
  
 If you look around, you'll find people that think the AKG K702 is overall better than the HD800.


----------



## murphythecat

beztis said:


> so you guys don't think the HD800 will be ok for a treble sensitive if i use a OTL tube amp with vintage mullard tubes? cus my ldmk3 with mullard tubes pretty much turns everything into honey, i even got bees swarming to it on some days and i feel like it should make the hd800 much softer.
> 
> also comapring the hd800 to the hd650, what makes them superior? i mean im guessing they are more comfortable and have more soundstage, but as far as sound quality - is it really a mindblowing difference like "omg these headphones..omg. i dont need anything else in life anymore..." ? how would you describe the sound? louder? more full? i remember back when people used to say hd650 was the be all and end all :S  i guess i just cant imagine what sounds better than hd650,  like how would it feel...how would it be..
> 
> i mean remmeber when 1080p came out and people were like omg these are the best displays...and now 4k.... idk, life is confusing, btu whatever just killing time and hoping to die asap


 
 Ive lived with hd650 for 2 years and I thought it was incredibly transparent. once I got my hd800, its another level of clarity. I couldnt believe my ears how much more information was revealed. the bass tightened considerable, the mids reveals layers and layers of sound and the treble is more detailed but can become harsh depending on source material and I guess your amp/dac qulaity.
  
 the treble I think is the only problem. youll get used to it, and if not, the hd 800 with EQ like sonaroworks solves everything with very little drawback. the inevitable drawback is with eq, you are not having a bit perfect source anymore, but the improvement mroe then make up for it.
  
 BTW I dont like 4 tvs, they look weird to me but maybe eventually we get used to it.


----------



## audiojun

@Beztis
  
 I think you'll do yourself a favor if you just stuck with your HD 650, my HD 650 has better mids than my HD 800, it's more musical and more easy to listen to. In picture terms the HD 650 is natural, while the HD 800 is like an image with sharpness and contrast increased. Also don't think in anyway that your HD 650 isn't TOTL, the HD 650 has the sonic qualities of an headphone priced at $1000, it certainly is better than some of these new headphones that are getting released.
  
 Also if you believe in the crap that all dacs and amps are the same then do yourself a favor don't get the HD 800, you'll be shooting yourself if you do.


----------



## Me x3

audiojun said:


> @Beztis
> 
> I think you'll do yourself a favor if you just stuck with your HD 650, my HD 650 has better mids than my HD 800, it's more musical and more easy to listen to. In picture terms the HD 650 is natural, while the HD 800 is like an image with sharpness and contrast increased. Also don't think in anyway that your HD 650 isn't TOTL, the HD 650 has the sonic qualities of an headphone priced at $1000, it certainly is better than some of these new headphones that are getting released.
> 
> Also if you believe in the crap that all dacs and amps are the same then do yourself a favor don't get the HD 800, you'll be shooting yourself if you do.


 
 Shame on you.
 It's much more fun to believe that each and every new headphone offers a whole new level of performance and joy to the buyer.
  
 Now being serious, I prefer HD800's mids over HD650's mids although I normally enjoy both. That said, I support your attitude.
 Finding a headphone that match your personal preferences is more important than the subjective consensus people have about the headphone. These days, each and every headphone with a 300usd price tag will be called mid-fi.


----------



## Sennophile

The HD800 is a unique listening experience, especially in terms of soundstage.  Senn HD600 / 650 are 'easier' to drive and easier to listen to.


----------



## Sorrodje

HD6X0 are not easier to drive. I'd say they both need the same kind of good amplification than the HD800 needs.


----------



## DavidA

audiojun said:


> @Beztis
> 
> I think you'll do yourself a favor if you just stuck with your HD 650, my HD 650 has better mids than my HD 800, it's more musical and more easy to listen to. In picture terms the HD 650 is natural, while the HD 800 is like an image with sharpness and contrast increased. Also don't think in anyway that your HD 650 isn't TOTL, the HD 650 has the sonic qualities of an headphone priced at $1000, it certainly is better than some of these new headphones that are getting released.
> 
> Also if you believe in the crap that all dacs and amps are the same then do yourself a favor don't get the HD 800, you'll be shooting yourself if you do.


 
 While I got a good giggle, its pretty good advice.
  


sennophile said:


> The HD800 is a unique listening experience, especially in terms of soundstage.  Senn HD600 / 650 are 'easier' to drive and easier to listen to.


 
 I think the HD-600/650 are a little easier to drive than the HD-800 but still not the easiest, agree that they are easier to listen to for someone who has no experience with decent gear.


----------



## JamieMcC

System synergy I think is probably more important than having the best specifications/measurements  with driving phones like the T1, HD650, HD800 having driven all of them on a range of set ups.
  
 It is easily possible to build a relatively inexpensive great sounding set up around each of  them and unless you have spent time prior listening to them on a top tier set up your going to be very happy and wonder how they could sound any better. 
  
 HD800, HD650 or T1 on a tricked out Bottlehead Crack offer a pretty amazing listening experience for example if you just want to enjoy music without dissecting it.


----------



## FLTWS

me x3 said:


> ...
> 
> ... That said, I support your attitude. Finding a headphone that match your personal preferences is more important than the subjective consensus people have about the headphone. These days, each and every headphone with a 300usd price tag will be called mid-fi.


 
 A lot of truth in that statement. Every now and then I'll read a post and wonder is this person looking for impressions to add to their decision making process about auditioning a piece of equipment, or, do they just want to be told by several others that their making a wise decision buying  this or that product, giving them the peace of mind that they've made a good purchase?


----------



## fjrabon

sorrodje said:


> HD6X0 are not easier to drive. I'd say they both need the same kind of good amplification than the HD800 needs.




Yeah, it was definitely my experience that the HD650 was harder to drive than the HD800


----------



## Beztis

I should get a chance to audition the HD800 this week. the thing about amps and dacs I mean a dac's job is to turn 1s and 0s into a wave form, and the odac does that as good as any other dac can if not better. So if you hear a difference in a 2 thousand dollar dac, that means that dac is messing the 1s and 0s and changing the sound, which is opposite of hifi, so it may or may not sound better, but technically speaking it is not doing a good job on what a dac is supposed to do.
  
 Same with amps - an amps job is to deliver power to drive the headphones - an o2 at 6x gain has more than enough power to drive virtually any pair of headphones with minimum THD, so if a 2 thousand dollar amp sounds different, then it's messing with the signal to give an illusion of improvemen (which is not worth 2 thousand dollars imo) 
  
 That being said I do enjoy my OTL tube amp with vintage mullard tubes with my 650hd because I like how it Physically changed the sound to be more soft and pleasurable - but if i spend 1000-1600$ on headphones, i don't like the idea of also having to spend 3000$ on a dac/amp just to fix the headphones, because if it doesn't sound good on the o2odac, then thats mostly on the headphones. But i am hoping the hd800 will be enjoyable with my tubes.


----------



## fjrabon

beztis said:


> I should get a chance to audition the HD800 this week. the thing about amps and dacs I mean a dac's job is to turn 1s and 0s into a wave form, and the odac does that as good as any other dac can if not better. So if you hear a difference in a 2 thousand dollar dac, that means that dac is messing the 1s and 0s and changing the sound, which is opposite of hifi, so it may or may not sound better, but technically speaking it is not doing a good job on what a dac is supposed to do.
> 
> Same with amps - an amps job is to deliver power to drive the headphones - an o2 at 6x gain has more than enough power to drive virtually any pair of headphones with minimum THD, so if a 2 thousand dollar amp sounds different, then it's messing with the signal to give an illusion of improvemen (which is not worth 2 thousand dollars imo)
> 
> That being said I do enjoy my OTL tube amp with vintage mullard tubes with my 650hd because I like how it Physically changed the sound to be more soft and pleasurable - but if i spend 1000-1600$ on headphones, i don't like the idea of also having to spend 3000$ on a dac/amp just to fix the headphones, because if it doesn't sound good on the o2odac, then thats mostly on the headphones. But i am hoping the hd800 will be enjoyable with my tubes.


 

 you're focusing on the digital part of the acronym DAC.  There's also the analog part, ie how well the DAC outputs an analog signal.  Also, DACs have to make a lot of choices in how they "fill in the gaps" of the digital signal.  the digital information is binary, and an analog system is continuous.  DACs will differently make choices on how to make that conversion from analog to digital.
  
 You're describing a DAC like it only passes along the digital signal.  It CONVERTS a digital signal to an analog signal, and in so doing makes a lot of "choices" based on its design, for what that digital signal means in the analog realm.  The analog realm imparts exponentially more information than the digital realm (even at the highest bit rates, continuous is always more information than binary).  Because you're going from less information to more information, a lot of that information has to be "made up" by the converting device.  A chord unit, for example will assume the smoothest possible transition between those digital points of reference, whereas a SABRE DAC will tend to have straighter transitions (that's obviously a drastic oversimplification, but it's just meant to illustrate a relatively simple point).  
  
 You're also wildly oversimplifying what amps do.  Most even decent amps have a flat frequency response.  The issue with amps has more to do with how the THD breaks down.  Some amps will have low THD, but almost all of it is in the highest order harmonics.  This doesn't strictly speaking change the frequency response, but it will result in the amp sounding harsher than an amp with the same amount of THD, but with the THD focused on lower order harmonics.  The great sham of the O2 (and I say that liking the O2 and what it represents) is that it in calling it objective it pretended that all harmonic distortion was the same.  It's been known for decades in speaker hi-fi that the breakdown of harmonic distortion is as important (if not more so) than how much total harmonic distortion there is.  
  
 Next, while most amps have plenty of gain, many don't have a stable enough power supply to smoothly impart that gain in a consistent way.  Power can sag, interference can seep in, they can be infected with DC power in an AC circuit.  A good, beefy power supply will cure those ills (the O2 doesn't have a very good power supply, except the battery units, which sound better, because they're on relatively pure DC).  
  
 Gain is only half the picture as well, in that an amp can have plenty of gain, but run out of voltage or current.  This happens to people using the HE6 with an inferior amp all the time.  Especially when combined with a poor power supply that means the amp can't even provide all the power it's supposed to have in the first place in transients.
  
 Finally amps can differ in the amount of electronic damping they have available.  This isn't an issue with the O2, but it is with a lot of otherwise good amps on low impedance headphones.  You can debate how important this is (me and MeX3 have debated this a lot of times, but it is at least theoretically an issue.  
  
 When I'm buying an amp, gain is probably the very last thing I look at, as there only a handful of amps I've ever seen that don't have enough gain for my most difficult to drive headphone (the HD800 when equalized).  This first thing I look into is the power supply.  How stable is it?  Then I look at the output impedance.  Even for my high impedance headphones, I like the increased diaphragm control of a zero impedance amp.  Some people however like the "fullness" of an amp with less electronic damping though.  A matter of preference there I suppose.  Next I look at what the total harmonic distortion is, and how it breaks down.  These numbers are often hard to find published anywhere, but once you know what to listen for are pretty easily discernible.  This is often what I think most Head-Fiers mean by "tube warmth" or "harshness" in an amp.  It doesn't actually change the frequency response (contrary to the way most head-fiers talk about tube warmth, it doesn't actually add bass or roll off treble in a frequency response sort of way normally).  My personal ideal amp is an amp with very low total THD, but whose THD profile concentrates half of all the THD in the 2nd harmonic alone, then half of what's remaining in the third, and so on down the line, giving a geometric decrease in THD for each harmonic.  Then I look at crosstalk, I obviously want as little as possible.  Then I make sure the amp is well shielded.  
  
 If all those check marks fit, you'd be surprised at how low in total power and gain you can get away with in an amp.  The HD800 doesn't actually need much more than 100mW, if it's done right (and you don't listen at INSANE levels).


----------



## DavidA

beztis said:


> I should get a chance to audition the HD800 this week. the thing about amps and dacs I mean a dac's job is to turn 1s and 0s into a wave form, and the odac does that as good as any other dac can if not better. So if you hear a difference in a 2 thousand dollar dac, that means that dac is messing the 1s and 0s and changing the sound, which is opposite of hifi, so it may or may not sound better, but technically speaking it is not doing a good job on what a dac is supposed to do.
> 
> Same with amps - an amps job is to deliver power to drive the headphones - an o2 at 6x gain has more than enough power to drive virtually any pair of headphones with minimum THD, so if a 2 thousand dollar amp sounds different, then it's messing with the signal to give an illusion of improvemen (which is not worth 2 thousand dollars imo)
> 
> That being said I do enjoy my OTL tube amp with vintage mullard tubes with my 650hd because I like how it Physically changed the sound to be more soft and pleasurable - but if i spend 1000-1600$ on headphones, i don't like the idea of also having to spend 3000$ on a dac/amp just to fix the headphones, because if it doesn't sound good on the o2odac, then thats mostly on the headphones. But i am hoping the hd800 will be enjoyable with my tubes.


 
 How do you know that the ODAC is doing a correct job of turning the 1 & 0's to a wave form correctly?  Best way that I like to think of what a DAC does is like a carburetor, injector and direct port injection, they all do the same thing in putting fuel in you engine but they do not have the same efficiency/performance and cost.
  
 You are missing the point of what many are saying, its not just the specifications, its the synergy between the headphone, DAC and amp that is what you are looking for.  An O2 with the HD-800 is about a bad as I've heard, very harsh, thin and dry, it makes the HD-800 sound worst than some $25 headphones that I've tried.
  
 Yes an O2 has more than enough power to drive most headphones to very loud levels but that doesn't mean it will sound good.
  
 I agree with what @JamieMcC posted above, its really all about the synergy with higher end headphones.


----------



## Hansotek

Oh, the Internet. It's comforting to know that these "objectivists" are still miseducating noobs on the fundamentals of how amps and DACs actually work. The sheer comedic irony of these people is that their "scientific knowledge" of amps and DACs is, more often than not, objectively incorrect in terms of both technical function and observable differentiation. 

In other words, there is absolutely nothing "scientific" or "objective" about the cookie cutter objectivist doctrine. They are simply a group of horribly misinformed people who willfully ignore readily available data so that they can, more often than not (I believe), mentally justify sticking with their $250 budget amp/DAC combo. Then they complain when their flagship headphone is "thin and bright", lol. 

Look, willful ignorance is not objective science. In fact, it's quite the opposite. You'd be well advised to listen to what fjrabon and DavidA are trying to explain to you, as they are far more informed than the so-called "objectivists".


----------



## lenroot77




----------



## Me x3

beztis said:


> I should get a chance to audition the HD800 this week. the thing about amps and dacs I mean a dac's job is to turn 1s and 0s into a wave form, and the odac does that as good as any other dac can if not better. So if you hear a difference in a 2 thousand dollar dac, that means that dac is messing the 1s and 0s and changing the sound, which is opposite of hifi, so it may or may not sound better, but technically speaking it is not doing a good job on what a dac is supposed to do.
> 
> Same with amps - an amps job is to deliver power to drive the headphones - an o2 at 6x gain has more than enough power to drive virtually any pair of headphones with minimum THD, so if a 2 thousand dollar amp sounds different, then it's messing with the signal to give an illusion of improvemen (which is not worth 2 thousand dollars imo)
> 
> That being said I do enjoy my OTL tube amp with vintage mullard tubes with my 650hd because I like how it Physically changed the sound to be more soft and pleasurable - but if i spend 1000-1600$ on headphones, i don't like the idea of also having to spend 3000$ on a dac/amp just to fix the headphones, because if it doesn't sound good on the o2odac, then thats mostly on the headphones. But i am hoping the hd800 will be enjoyable with my tubes.


 
 Never think you got all the variables in your hands, science is full of variables and some of them will most likely escape from your reasoning. It happened to Isaac Newton, so you get the idea. Real objectivism is built upon doubt, kill the doubt and you kill objectivism.


----------



## Hansotek

me x3 said:


> I find it really hard to make such claims as absolute truth.
> I think it's down to personal preferences and recordings used to test.
> 
> Each time you A/B them you'll look for certain specific characteristics and make a judgement with a previous reference / a personal conception about how it should sound.
> ...


 
  
 Of course. No such claim can be considered absolute truth. It is a subjective hobby. I agree 100% with your comment about people weighting qualities differently.
  
 For the sake of argument on my "the T1 is not top 25-30 headphone comment" (which may sound like hyperbole, but was actually a fully thought-through comment), here is a list of 42 headphones which I prefer to the T1:
  
 Abyss AB1266
 Audeze LCD-2
 Audeze LCD-3
 Audeze LCD-4
 Audeze LCD-X
 Audeze LCD-XC
 Campfire Audio Andromeda
 Empire Ears Zeus
 Enigma Acoustics Dharma
 Focal Elear*
 Focal Utopia*
 Fostex TH-900
 Hifiman HE-500
 Hifiman HE-560
 Hifiman HE-6
 Hifiman HE-1000
 Hifiman HE-X
 Hifiman Shangri-la
 Jerry Harvey Angie
 Jerry Harvey Layla
 Jerry Harvey Roxanne
 Kennerton Odin
 Koss ESP-950
 Mr. Speakers Ether
 Mr. Speakers Ether C
 Mr. Speakers Ether E prototype
 Mr. Speakers Ether Flow*
 Mr. Speakers Ether C Flow*
 Noble K10
 Oppo PM-1
 Oppo PM-2
 Sennheiser HD800
 Sennheiser HD800s
 Sennheiser Orpheus*
 Sennheiser Orpheus 2*
 Stax SR-007 MK-I
 Stax SR-007 MKII
 Stax SR-009
 Stax SR-507
 Stax SR-407
 Westone W60
 ZMF Omni
  
 *Note - I have not heard these 6 models yet, but it is (what I'd consider) a safe assumption that I'd prefer them to the T1.
 **If you are wondering were the high-end Grados are, I haven't heard any of their top-end models, so the assumption wouldn't be as safe as the 6 models noted above.
  
 Again, I'm not trying to dog the T1, I just think the above models are better. YMMV, of course. You may very well see it differently, and that's okay.


----------



## PleasantSounds

hansotek said:


> Oh, the Internet. It's comforting to know that these "objectivists" are still miseducating noobs on the fundamentals of how amps and DACs actually work. The sheer comedic irony of these people is that their "scientific knowledge" of amps and DACs is, more often than not, objectively incorrect in terms of both technical function and observable differentiation.
> 
> In other words, there is absolutely nothing "scientific" or "objective" about the cookie cutter objectivist doctrine. They are simply a group of horribly misinformed people who willfully ignore readily available data so that they can, more often than not (I believe), mentally justify sticking with their $250 budget amp/DAC combo. Then they complain when their flagship headphone is "thin and bright", lol.
> 
> Look, willful ignorance is not objective science. In fact, it's quite the opposite. You'd be well advised to listen to what @fjrabon and @DavidA are trying to explain to you, as they are far more informed than the so-called "objectivists".


 
  
 I concur. This "objectivist" trend seems to have more to do with religion than science. Real scientists always question the reality and our level of knowledge, but our objectivists always have all the answers, which are frequently based on oversimplified understanding of the matters.


----------



## Peti

beztis said:


> I should get a chance to audition the HD800 this week. the thing about amps and dacs I mean a dac's job is to turn 1s and 0s into a wave form, and the odac does that as good as any other dac can if not better. So if you hear a difference in a 2 thousand dollar dac, that means that dac is messing the 1s and 0s and changing the sound, which is opposite of hifi, so it may or may not sound better, but technically speaking it is not doing a good job on what a dac is supposed to do.
> 
> Same with amps - an amps job is to deliver power to drive the headphones - an o2 at 6x gain has more than enough power to drive virtually any pair of headphones with minimum THD, so if a 2 thousand dollar amp sounds different, then it's messing with the signal to give an illusion of improvemen (which is not worth 2 thousand dollars imo)
> 
> That being said I do enjoy my OTL tube amp with vintage mullard tubes with my 650hd because I like how it Physically changed the sound to be more soft and pleasurable - but if i spend 1000-1600$ on headphones, i don't like the idea of also having to spend 3000$ on a dac/amp just to fix the headphones, because if it doesn't sound good on the o2odac, then thats mostly on the headphones. But i am hoping the hd800 will be enjoyable with my tubes.




This exactly was my attitude before when I got into this hobby. I've read NWAVGUY's website like my Bible, it just made sense, as everything was backed by numbers and figures. Then, at my first head-fi meet, I have heard the same hd800 hooked up on a liquid gold. Since then, my life has changed, and I'm not exaggerating here. I know you are trying to justify why you shouldn't spend more dough on high end amps and dacs but do yourself a favour and get to a meet to listen to it with your own ears!


----------



## Peti

P.S.: since then, the only headphones I'm listening to is my classic hd800 as I don't need anything else to listen and enjoy my poorly recorded metal records! I think that tells everything.


----------



## icebear

beztis said:


> ...
> That being said I do enjoy my OTL tube amp with vintage mullard tubes with my 650hd because I like how it Physically changed the sound to be more soft and pleasurable - but if i spend 1000-1600$ on headphones, i *don't like the idea of also having to spend 3000$ on a dac/amp just to fix the headphones,* because if it doesn't sound good on the o2odac, then thats mostly on the headphones. But i am hoping the hd800 will be enjoyable with my tubes.


 
  
 There is a solid misunderstanding here ... _*you are not fixing the headphones*_.
 The HD800 will tell you what is wrong with the other parts of your set up.


----------



## Beztis

nevermind


----------



## Peti

Ouch.....


----------



## Beztis

peti said:


> Ouch.....


 
 sorry i didnt mean to get so carried away, its not worth fighting over, at the end of the day just matters if u are happy....... i am 27 years old now and i realize that most stuff in life are not worth fighting over and its very silly to get upset and fight with other living beings over material items.  i am a die hard sennheiser fan and when i see others say that other headphones are better, every cell in my body wants to hurt them, but it's really stupid when i think about it, because i know that nobody from sennheiser would put their emotions in jeopardy for me, so im being stupid. 
  
 if you have the money, by all means buy whatever you want and be happy, i would probably too... but im not rich like that, and when i see homeless people on the street i cringe at thinking of buying headphone amps for thousands of dollars, and i honestly am in complete love with my ldmk3 with mullard tubes, it sounds better to me than anything else, i was just curious if the hd800 were a worthy upgrade to the 650 and would go good with my mk3.


----------



## vc1187

beztis said:


> sorry i didnt mean to get so carried away, its not worth fighting over, at the end of the day just matters if u are happy....... i am 27 years old now and i realize that most stuff in life are not worth fighting over and its very silly to get upset and fight with other living beings over material items.  i am a die hard sennheiser fan and *when i see others say that other headphones are better, every cell in my body wants to hurt them*, but it's really stupid when i think about it, because i know that nobody from sennheiser would put their emotions in jeopardy for me, so im being stupid.
> 
> if you have the money, by all means buy whatever you want and be happy, i would probably too... but im not rich like that, and when i see homeless people on the street i cringe at thinking of buying headphone amps for thousands of dollars, and i honestly am in complete love with my ldmk3 with mullard tubes, it sounds better to me than anything else, i was just curious if the hd800 were a worthy upgrade to the 650 and would go good with my mk3.




Haha what?! I think you need a good psych evaluation rather than a pair of HD800s


----------



## audiojun

beztis said:


> if you have the money, by all means buy whatever you want and be happy, i would probably too... but im not rich like that, and when i see homeless people on the street i cringe at thinking of buying headphone amps for thousands of dollars, and i honestly am in complete love with my ldmk3 with mullard tubes, it sounds better to me than anything else, i was just curious if the hd800 were a worthy upgrade to the 650 and would go good with my mk3.


 
  
 It's not about the money and honestly I think the HD 800 isn't for you. Based on what you like, The HD 650 is smooth sounding and yet you like to smooth out the sound even more with a tube amp and mullard tubes. The HD 800 is opposite of smooth it's like a razor, it will cut up your source and show you everything including the ugly.


----------



## johnjen

beztis said:


> nevermind


 
 My 2¢
  
 800's, like a lot of TotL gear is going to reveal ALL of the strengths AND weaknesses of your entire audio chain.
  
 That's what they were designed to do, to reveal ALL of the nuances of the signal that is fed to them.
  
 This includes such intangibles as the acoustic space, the harmonic structure of each 'Voice' and other 'non-ordinary' sonic characteristics that are in the music but can all to easily be obscured and/or altered by ALL of the upstream gear, no matter how good it may be.
  
 800's are a great HP to build a system around, that is if you desire to hear what they are fully capable of.
 But beware, they WILL reveal all of the foibles as well as the wonderfulness of the music you send to them.
  
 IOW if your intention is to use 800's and be satisfied with the end result while using your previous gear, you may be disappointed and hugely so.
  
 They won't hide nor disguise any of the 'rough edges' of the signal fed them, and you WILL hear it all, because that is what TotL gear does.
 It is starkly revealing.
  
 Just a few thoughts to ponder.
  
 JJ


----------



## Thenewguy007

> but im not rich like that, and when i see homeless people on the street i cringe at thinking of buying headphone amps for thousands of dollars


 
  
 Never understood this. Do you own a car or plan to own a car? It's thousands, if not tens of thousands more than a bike + bus fare.

 Do you feel guilty driving one?


----------



## SearchOfSub

How do you buy anything with that mentality. Sometimes you just gotta buy what you buy and just enjoy.


----------



## Oldfella

Does it matter if someone is using a cheap phone,and apple earphones?. If people are happy in what they are hearing, then thats fine by me.The best thing about this hobby, is that there are so many variables in price/amps/dacs. etc., that everyone is looking for their end game. I started at 12 years of age. I am now at 76years of age,and feel that i am 90% there. I hope to reach my goal of 100%, by the time i reach 100 years old.maybe?.


----------



## DavidA

oldfella said:


> Does it matter if someone is using a cheap phone,and apple earphones?. If people are happy in what they are hearing, then thats fine by me.The best thing about this hobby, is that there are so many variables in price/amps/dacs. etc., that everyone is looking for their end game. I started at 12 years of age. I am now at 76years of age,and feel that i am 90% there. I hope to reach my goal of 100%, by the time i reach 100 years old.maybe?.


 
 I started taking headphones a little more serious just 3 years ago, I see my end game, just need to prioritize spending to get there.


----------



## fjrabon

davida said:


> I started taking headphones a little more serious just 3 years ago, I see my end game, just need to prioritize spending to get there.


 

 What's your end game?  I think I'm pretty close to mine.  The biggest part of my end game was honestly DSP getting better.  For a long time DSP EQ was garbage, as were DSP crossfeed programs, but in the last few years they have take n huge leaps forwards such that the "not bit perfect" argument against them is really a non-entity any longer.  We've been at end game for amps for a while, IMHO.  My endgame amp is probably the Torpedo III I have coming.  DACs are pretty close to what I want, as they've made insane leaps and bounds of progress in the last 3-5 years.  My biggest issue with DACs right now is that they're making such rapid progress, and their value depreciates so fast, that I'm scared to buy a really top end DAC at this moment (even something like a GuMBy) because it may be completely outdated and worth 1/3 of it's value in 2 years.  I know the HD800 and Torpedo III will stand up to just about anything in at least 5-10 years in overall SQ.  
  
 Headphones, I think we're getting there.  The HD800, SR009 and Abyss are sooooooooo close, IMHO.  It's crazy to me that you can get a used HD800 for $800 dollars these days, apply sonarworks anad have that kind of headphone for about $900.
  
 Right now my endgame would probably be:  AIFF -> Sonarworks/Canopener -> Yggy -> Torpedo III -> HD800.  I'm pretty close to having that, but I just can't bring myself to spend that money on the Yggy given the rate of advance and dropping prices of DACs in the market the last few years, so I'll probably stick to the m9XX or maybe a Chord Hugo as my DAC until they really hit that turning point.


----------



## fjrabon

beztis said:


> sorry i didnt mean to get so carried away, its not worth fighting over, at the end of the day just matters if u are happy....... i am 27 years old now and i realize that most stuff in life are not worth fighting over and its very silly to get upset and fight with other living beings over material items.  i am a die hard sennheiser fan and when i see others say that other headphones are better, every cell in my body wants to hurt them, but it's really stupid when i think about it, because i know that nobody from sennheiser would put their emotions in jeopardy for me, so im being stupid.
> 
> if you have the money, by all means buy whatever you want and be happy, i would probably too... but im not rich like that, and when i see homeless people on the street i cringe at thinking of buying headphone amps for thousands of dollars, and i honestly am in complete love with my ldmk3 with mullard tubes, it sounds better to me than anything else, i was just curious if the hd800 were a worthy upgrade to the 650 and would go good with my mk3.


 

 There's no problem with saying that the difference from one amp or another isn't worth it to you.  That's your own value judgment and I applaud you for striking a line and sticking to it as far as what is or isn't worth it to you.  However, you don't need to then say that objectively all amps are the same, and talk down to people who say otherwise like _they're_ idiots for thinking amps and DACs make a difference to justify your stance.  You then run into the problem that you've made a claim that can be disproven, rather than stating your own personal value judgment.  There have been absolutely points in my life where a $100 Grado straight out of an iPod was what worked for me at a value standpoint.  I didn't go around trying to tell people that no amp or higher headphone is any better than that.  
  
 Head-Fi can absolutely have this tendency where people basically think all gear "below" what they own is trash and all gear "above" is just snake oil.  Gotta get out of that.  Audio, auditory physiology, psychoacoustics and electricity are complicated.  There are a lot of variables to nail down as MeX3 said.
  
 Products aren't worth getting angry over.  I post about this stuff because I love music, and I love sound, and I love being a bit nerdy about how that all comes together. Very little makes me happier than getting together with my buddy Purk and talking the finer points of amping the HD800 or the SR009 vs his Orpheus vs. his R10 over some chicken wings.   I have a few pet peeves (people talking about gear they've never even heard and saying X is better than Y when they've never heard it) but I do my best to just let it go, after simply saying "well, I have this direct experience about this, so I think ..." and moving on.  You can't let something that's meant to bring you joy cause "every cell in [your] body want[ing] to hurt [somebody]."  I feel a special affinity for Beezar Audio/ECP gear because 1) it's crazy phenomenal and 2) TomB is a personal friend of mine, but even that, I try to think "man they're just missing out" if somebody said they don't like it (luckily the Torpedo III is so good and so obscure that only a few people have heard it and those that have pretty much universally praise it).  Same with the E-MU Teaks.  Chan is a personal friend of mine and I think he's done a phenomenal job with those headphones, but I can't let somebody not liking them make *my* experience worse.
  
 I am really glad you're happy with your HD650 and ldmk3.  I have in the past owned and really liked the HD650.  Oddly enough the main reason I sold mine was the amping needs it has.  It was a kind of weird middle ground for me in that it couldn't really be portable, but I didn't love it quite enough to dedicate a whole stationary desktop rig to it.  But that was just my feeling, it's a great headphone.


----------



## DavidA

fjrabon said:


> What's your end game?  I think I'm pretty close to mine.  The biggest part of my end game was honestly DSP getting better.  For a long time DSP EQ was garbage, as were DSP crossfeed programs, but in the last few years they have take n huge leaps forwards such that the "not bit perfect" argument against them is really a non-entity any longer.  We've been at end game for amps for a while, IMHO.  My endgame amp is probably the Torpedo III I have coming.  DACs are pretty close to what I want, as they've made insane leaps and bounds of progress in the last 3-5 years.  My biggest issue with DACs right now is that they're making such rapid progress, and their value depreciates so fast, that I'm scared to buy a really top end DAC at this moment (even something like a GuMBy) because it may be completely outdated and worth 1/3 of it's value in 2 years.  I know the HD800 and Torpedo III will stand up to just about anything in at least 5-10 years in overall SQ.
> 
> Headphones, I think we're getting there.  The HD800, SR009 and Abyss are sooooooooo close, IMHO.  It's crazy to me that you can get a used HD800 for $800 dollars these days, apply sonarworks anad have that kind of headphone for about $900.
> 
> Right now my endgame would probably be:  AIFF -> Sonarworks/Canopener -> Yggy -> Torpedo III -> HD800.  I'm pretty close to having that, but I just can't bring myself to spend that money on the Yggy given the rate of advance and dropping prices of DACs in the market the last few years, so I'll probably stick to the m9XX or maybe a Chord Hugo as my DAC until they really hit that turning point.


 
 My end game for headphones: HD-800S, Elear and maybe the new Ether Flow (already have HD-800, SR-009, T1)
 Amps: Liquid Glass, either GS-X or god forbid my friend decides to sell his Liquid Gold (this is the biggest area of change for me, will pass along Lyr2, BH Crack and Ember to my son)
 DACs: MHDT Pagoda or Metrum Menuet, will still keep Bimby and Uber (might upgrade to 4490)


----------



## fjrabon

davida said:


> My end game for headphones: HD-800S, Elear and maybe the new Ether Flow (already have HD-800, SR-009, T1)
> Amps: Liquid Glass, either GS-X or god forbid my friend decides to sell his Liquid Gold (this is the biggest area of change for me, will pass along Lyr2, BH Crack and Ember to my son)
> DACs: MHDT Pagoda or Metrum Menuet, will still keep Bimby and Uber (might upgrade to 4490)


 

 yeah, after all the issues with the Elear release, I'm still curious about it, I just don't want to be part of the first batch at this point, hoping everything gets worked out and the reviews come back positive when they're more widely dispersed, because I love the design idea, both sound wise and aesthetically.  I was/am also with you with the HD800s, until SW3 and its 64bit AU implementation for the HD800, at which point I actually flipped back to preferring the HD800 for it's every so slightly less distortion in the bass.  T1 has never been for me, but I am just generally not a Beyerdynamic person.  SR009 has always been a lust item for me, especially since I get to hear one fairly regularly, I just don't like it enough more than the HD800 to build that system around it.  Whereas with my HD800 system, I will still be able to use it with my lesser gear.  
  
 At this point my biggest journey is going to be completely figuring out my closed back end game, which I put almost impossible demands because it has to be relatively small (for work) and I want it to sound like a perfectly equalized HD800, haha.  The THX00 with the stuff I've done to it is pretty dang close, but since I've gotten the HD800 rig pretty close to how I want it, I more immediately notice the THX00 rig issues.  But then I  listen to other end game type closed rigs, and I don't really feel like they come any closer, so m9XX -> THX00/ebony cups/lawton mods may be it for me there.  It is *REALLY* good, just not quite TIII -> HD800 equalized good.  
  
 Also considering sending in my THX00 to sonarworks for measurement and to have them create a customized neutralization profile for me.  I'd hate to spend $100 on that and then end up modding it again though, and I am not 100% settled on the pads or if I am going to add the rest of the lawton damping kit (at this point I've only done about half of it).


----------



## DavidA

fjrabon said:


> yeah, after all the issues with the Elear release, I'm still curious about it, I just don't want to be part of the first batch at this point, hoping everything gets worked out and the reviews come back positive when they're more widely dispersed, because I love the design idea, both sound wise and aesthetically.  I was/am also with you with the HD800s, until SW3 and its 64bit AU implementation for the HD800, at which point I actually flipped back to preferring the HD800 for it's every so slightly less distortion in the bass.  T1 has never been for me, but I am just generally not a Beyerdynamic person.  SR009 has always been a lust item for me, especially since I get to hear one fairly regularly, I just don't like it enough more than the HD800 to build that system around it.  Whereas with my HD800 system, I will still be able to use it with my lesser gear.
> 
> At this point my biggest journey is going to be completely figuring out my closed back end game, which I put almost impossible demands because it has to be relatively small (for work) and I want it to sound like a perfectly equalized HD800, haha.  The THX00 with the stuff I've done to it is pretty dang close, but since I've gotten the HD800 rig pretty close to how I want it, I more immediately notice the THX00 rig issues.  But then I  listen to other end game type closed rigs, and I don't really feel like they come any closer, so m9XX -> THX00/ebony cups/lawton mods may be it for me there.  It is *REALLY* good, just not quite TIII -> HD800 equalized good.
> 
> Also considering sending in my THX00 to sonarworks for measurement and to have them create a customized neutralization profile for me.  I'd hate to spend $100 on that and then end up modding it again though, and I am not 100% settled on the pads or if I am going to add the rest of the lawton damping kit (at this point I've only done about half of it).


 
 I just never got comfortable using software EQ, mainly because I switch headphones a lot and have the signal split to different DACs and amps.  As for your closed headphone have you tried the Sine, I was reading about it and was going to get one but a few noted that its not the most comfortable since its an on-ear.
  
 The SR-009 was a gift from a friend who had 2 of them, he had bought this second one used for his daughter but she didn't want it so I lucked out.  Only problem is that most of my friends here in Hawaii have asked to try it so I haven't seen it for 3 months now.
  
 Been following your journey with the TH-X00, very interesting progression and I like that you have a clear understanding of what you want in your system, unlike me where many decisions are based on consideration for the GF's choices/preferences also, such as how gear looks and simplicity of operation.


----------



## fjrabon

davida said:


> I just never got comfortable using software EQ, mainly because I switch headphones a lot and have the signal split to different DACs and amps.  As for your closed headphone have you tried the Sine, I was reading about it and was going to get one but a few noted that its not the most comfortable since its an on-ear.
> 
> The SR-009 was a gift from a friend who had 2 of them, he had bought this second one used for his daughter but she didn't want it so I lucked out.  Only problem is that most of my friends here in Hawaii have asked to try it so I haven't seen it for 3 months now.
> 
> Been following your journey with the TH-X00, very interesting progression and I like that you have a clear understanding of what you want in your system, unlike me where many decisions are based on consideration for the GF's choices/preferences also, such as how gear looks and simplicity of operation.


 

 I have tried and emphatically didn't like the Sine, was actually very crestfallen because I wanted to like it.  Also, I'm not an on ear person (with the exception of Grado flat pads).  
  
 And the GF loves the THX00 both aesthetically (especially with the ebony cups) and from a sound standpoint.  It's the only one where she's like "yeah, that's definitely worth it."  She just laughs at me with the HD800 and HE400i.  She also likes the m9XX, but I don't think she realizes that it cost $500.  I think she has this idea that the amps are just volume controls and are like $50, haha.  
  
 The thing I do like about my system is that it can be as simple or as complicated as i want it.  It took a while to dial in all the setting I wanted with the HD800, but I have it to the point where it's basically as simple as turning the audio program I use on, plugging the m9XX in, plugging the HD800 into that and going with it.  I then add in the Torpedo III for myself personally if I want to go next level.  But straight out of the m9XX is still really freaking good.  My girlfriend is usually plenty happy with the THX00 or EMU walnut through the dragonfly red or straight out of her iPhone.  She even likes the humble Senn HD439 because it's light, comfortable and very smooth and clear, that's basically her headphone at this point.
  
 But yeah, lucky for me the HD800 is viewed as 100% mine, haha.


----------



## DavidA

fjrabon said:


> I have tried and emphatically didn't like the Sine, was actually very crestfallen because I wanted to like it.  Also, I'm not an on ear person (with the exception of Grado flat pads).
> 
> And the GF loves the THX00 both aesthetically (especially with the ebony cups) and from a sound standpoint.  It's the only one where she's like "yeah, that's definitely worth it."  She just laughs at me with the HD800 and HE400i.  She also likes the m9XX, but I don't think she realizes that it cost $500.  I think she has this idea that the amps are just volume controls and are like $50, haha.
> 
> ...


 
 With my GF, what's hers is hers and what's mine is also hers, but then she did buy her own headphones, including a Edition 8 Julia (one of the nicest looking headphones I've seen, even in the pink color, she has since given it to her daughter), HD-700, K7XX and HD-650.
  
 Biggest disappointment for me was the WA7d, beautiful work of art and a great conversation piece, but sonically it was not that great.


----------



## fjrabon

davida said:


> With my GF, what's hers is hers and what's mine is also hers, but then she did buy her own headphones, including a Edition 8 Julia (one of the nicest looking headphones I've seen, even in the pink color, she has since given it to her daughter), HD-700, K7XX and HD-650.
> 
> Biggest disappointment for me was the WA7d, beautiful work of art and a great conversation piece, but sonically it was not that great.


 

 yes, I was similarly disappointed in the WA7d.  The Matrix Quattro was another that I wanted to like a lot and just didn't.  The audeze XC was another promising dead end, as was the Audeze EL8 (I really want Audeze to get closed cans right, but to my ears they just haven't yet).  My only two real promising leads in the closed game were the THX00 and Ether C.  Since I use closed headphones with my phone and DFR more, I care more about their signature than I do my desk top open cans.  My closed cans need to sound pretty close to my ideal signature with no EQ, whereas I don't really care much about the HD800's frequency response, so long as it has low distortion at the levels I EQ it up to (which it does).
  
 My girldfriend just picks and choses amongst the stuff I buy that I'm not totally in love with, since I fairly rarely sell stuff that I actually bought.  The tough ones are review gear I get, that I don't like but she does.  She almost never likes it enough for me to actually keep it, but just enough to be like "why do you like that better than this, that's way better" haha.


----------



## Thenewguy007

> Originally Posted by *fjrabon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> My biggest issue with DACs right now is that they're making such rapid progress, and their value depreciates so fast, that I'm scared to buy a really top end DAC at this moment (even something like a GuMBy) because it may be completely outdated and worth 1/3 of it's value in 2 years.


 
  
 Most good DACs hold their value for a long time.
  
 Try buying a cheap 20-30 year old Accuphase DAC or transport for cheap, you won't find one!


----------



## fjrabon

thenewguy007 said:


> Most good DACs hold their value for a long time.
> 
> Try buying a cheap 20-30 year old Accuphase DAC or transport for cheap, you won't find one!


 

 I think that has as much to do with rarity as quality though, similar to the R10 in that yeah, it's still great quality sound wise, but much of the selling price these days is the rarity aspect.  There are several DACs that were summit fi 10 years ago that are viewed as wildly outdated at this point and selling for 1/5 of their original price.  You won't really find many Accuphase DACs at any price.


----------



## Sorrodje

@fjrabon Just give a look to that thread and see the dac listed in class E on top of the list : http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/thoughts-on-a-bunch-of-dacs-and-why-delta-sigma-kinda-sucks-just-to-get-you-to-think-about-stuff .  and only a few of those vintage R2R dacs are mentionned.


----------



## Hansotek

fjrabon said:


> There's no problem with saying that the difference from one amp or another isn't worth it to you.  That's your own value judgment and I applaud you for striking a line and sticking to it as far as what is or isn't worth it to you.  However, you don't need to then say that objectively all amps are the same, and talk down to people who say otherwise like _they're_ idiots for thinking amps and DACs make a difference to justify your stance.  You then run into the problem that you've made a claim that can be disproven, rather than stating your own personal value judgment.  There have been absolutely points in my life where a $100 Grado straight out of an iPod was what worked for me at a value standpoint.  I didn't go around trying to tell people that no amp or higher headphone is any better than that.
> 
> Head-Fi can absolutely have this tendency where people basically think all gear "below" what they own is trash and all gear "above" is just snake oil.  Gotta get out of that.  Audio, auditory physiology, psychoacoustics and electricity are complicated.  There are a lot of variables to nail down as MeX3 said.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I couldn't agree more with this sentiment. I have equipment I love at all kinds of price points. I mean, I'm a guy who has an $850 cable attaching my HD800 to my $3K Cavalli amp. But you know what else I like? The $150 DT990 Pro plugged into the $150 O2. The $25 Xiaomi Piston II IEM. The $79 SR80i. Oh, and here's a weird one I love - the Hifiman HE400 (the original, which you can get for like $200 these days) with a Moon Audio Silver Dragon plugged into the $7K Wells Audio Headtrip.
  
 Good equipment and weird synergies happen at all levels and shapes and sizes. Different things work for weird reasons. The important part is being open minded, trusting YOUR OWN EARS and not adopting these BS pseudo-scientific doctrines that, ironically, discredit_ the act of listening_ from _the hobby of listening._


----------



## fjrabon

hansotek said:


> I couldn't agree more with this sentiment. I have equipment I love at all kinds of price points. I mean, I'm a guy who has an $850 cable attaching my HD800 to my $3K Cavalli amp. But you know what else I like? The $150 DT990 Pro plugged into the $150 O2. The $25 Xiaomi Piston II IEM. The $79 SR80i. Oh, and here's a weird one I love - the Hifiman HE400 (the original, which you can get for like $200 these days) with a Moon Audio Silver Dragon plugged into the $7K Wells Audio Headtrip.
> 
> Good equipment and weird synergies happen at all levels and shapes and sizes. Different things work for weird reasons. The important part is being open minded, trusting YOUR OWN EARS and not adopting these BS pseudo-scientific doctrines that, ironically, discredit_ the act of listening_ from _the hobby of listening._


 

 oh man, the DT990 plugged into an O2, my ears just hurt thinking about that, haha.  But again, different strokes for different folks.  I honestly really like the KSC75 straight out of my iPhone.  It obviously can't do the things that my HD800 can do, but it's a dang fine sounding setup for $15 (since I'd own my iPhone regardless of it's music ability).  I think the TIII stands up to anything regardless of price, but I love Cavalli stuff and Warren is a super guy too.  I still remember the first time I asked Tom how much the TIII was and I was expecting like $4000, and he was like "$900 maxed out as a kit."
  
 On the flip side, there's a lot of crazy expensive gear that I didn't like.  The AudioTechnica ESW9A was almost $600 when it first came out (which was EXPENSIVE back then), and I think it sounds like a load of crap (I'd sell mine, but I'd feel guilty selling it to somebody, but then again, there are people who like it, so maybe I should just list it and not worry about it).  I've never cared for the bottlehead brack in any configuration with any headphone other than the HD650.  
  
 point being, yeah, it's more about trying what you can, finding people whose tastes you trust for recs on stuff you can't audition, and if in doubt buy used so you don't have to take much of a loss.  I'm lucky to have a lot of gearhead friends here in Atlanta, so I can try out most anything I want before buying, but if you're willing to eat some shipping costs you can basically do that with used gear if you're smart about it and patient.


----------



## Hansotek

fjrabon said:


> *oh man, the DT990 plugged into an O2, my ears just hurt thinking about that, haha.  *


 
  
 ^I tried to lead with the combination of goods I thought y'all would hate the most, lol! 
  
 I don't know what it is about my DT990 Pro, but the treble doesn't bother me at all. I heard the premium version once and it sounded totally different. I'm not sure if it is the extra clamping force, that Fisher-Price plastic "Pro" housing or if the drivers are actually tuned differently... but for whatever reason, the cheaper version actually sounds pretty decent to my ears.
  
 ...or maybe I'm just weird like that. C'est la vie.


----------



## Beztis

looking at the frequnecy response graph at the HD800 and it looks like even though it lifts a bit on the treble, in the higher frequnecy it does not seem to extend all the way to 10db like the hd598 and 400i do (i found those painful) - im hoping that the hd800 with my LDmk3 using mullard m8100 tubes (extremely smooth sound) will be a good end game for me cus i love my hd650, but having comfort issues that really drive me nuts. and im glad they released the hd800 S simply because it lowered the price of the HD800 LOL, u think thats why they did it? cus i a video on youtube where hitler was saying the only difference was its black and the difference in sound can be had by just by adding some stuffing into the hd800 and saving 700$ lol
  
  
 also this guy seems pretty relaxed with his hd800s, maybe he is using an ldmk3 with mullard tubes too 
  

  
 wait is that the hd700? in that it's probably cause he just turned the volume off LOL jk


----------



## Hansotek

Dude, we're all pretty sure you're not going to like the HD800.


----------



## Beztis

hansotek said:


> Dude, we're all pretty sure you're not going to like the HD800.


 
 right on, ya i got the leather headband cover cushionc oming hoping that will make my 650s perfect for me 
  
 u think the hd800 S will also be too sharp for me?


----------



## vc1187

beztis said:


> right on, ya i got the leather headband cover cushionc oming hoping that will make my 650s perfect for me
> 
> u think the hd800 S will also be too sharp for me?




Yes


----------



## Hansotek

beztis said:


> right on, ya i got the leather headband cover cushionc oming hoping that will make my 650s perfect for me
> 
> u think the hd800 S will also be too sharp for me?




Yes.


----------



## DavidA

beztis said:


> right on, ya i got the leather headband cover cushionc oming hoping that will make my 650s perfect for me
> 
> u think the hd800 S will also be too sharp for me?


 
 You have comfort issues with the HD-650 which I think are a bit more comfortable than the HD-800/S which for me puts a little more pressure on the top of my head due to the clamping force being slightly, they also weigh more.
  
 The HD-800S while being a bit warmer than the HD-800 is still a bit brighter than the HD-650, thinking that a amp with warm tubes is going to get it to the HD-650 level is not going to happen, so yes, I think the even the HD-800S will be too sharp for you.


----------



## Beztis

Yeah i see, hey i been reading about how as we get older we lose upper freequency hearing, do you think maybe sennheiser made the hd800/s for older people since they are more able to afford it and can enjoy it more?  so does that mean if somebody is treble sensitive, he wont be treble sensitive after he is like 35?


----------



## PleasantSounds

beztis said:


> Yeah i see, hey i been reading about how as we get older we lose upper freequency hearing, do you think maybe sennheiser made the hd800/s for older people since they are more able to afford it and can enjoy it more?  so does that mean if somebody is treble sensitive, he wont be treble sensitive after he is like 35?


 
  
 If you hope your hearing loss will affect the 6-8 kHz range, you'll have to wait until you're over 80.


----------



## DavidA

beztis said:


> Yeah i see, hey i been reading about how as we get older we lose upper freequency hearing, do you think maybe sennheiser made the hd800/s for older people since they are more able to afford it and can enjoy it more?  so does that mean if somebody is treble sensitive, he wont be treble sensitive after he is like 35?


 
 Everyone is different, I have a slight hearing loss at 1khz to about 5khz, 0.5 to 1.0 dB the last time I had a hearing test.  In general the older we get the worse our hearing gets, unless you are one of those kids that blast the volume at 90+dB when listening all the time or your job exposes you to damaging levels then most will experience a gradual lost over the years but usually older than 35, more like 60+ is what I've noticed.


----------



## thecrow

fjrabon said:


> yeah, after all the issues with the Elear release, I'm still curious about it, I just don't want to be part of the first batch at this point, hoping everything gets worked out and the reviews come back positive when they're more widely dispersed, because I love the design idea, both sound wise and aesthetically.  I was/am also with you with the HD800s, until SW3 and its 64bit AU implementation for the HD800, at which point I actually flipped back to preferring the HD800 for it's every so slightly less distortion in the bass.  T1 has never been for me, but I am just generally not a Beyerdynamic person.  SR009 has always been a lust item for me, especially since I get to hear one fairly regularly, I just don't like it enough more than the HD800 to build that system around it.  Whereas with my HD800 system, I will still be able to use it with my lesser gear.
> 
> At this point my biggest journey is going to be completely figuring out my closed back end game, which I put almost impossible demands because it has to be relatively small (for work) and I want it to sound like a perfectly equalized HD800, haha.  The THX00 with the stuff I've done to it is pretty dang close, but since I've gotten the HD800 rig pretty close to how I want it, I more immediately notice the THX00 rig issues.  But then I  listen to other end game type closed rigs, and I don't really feel like they come any closer, so m9XX -> THX00/ebony cups/lawton mods may be it for me there.  It is *REALLY* good, just not quite TIII -> HD800 equalized good.
> 
> Also considering sending in my THX00 to sonarworks for measurement and to have them create a customized neutralization profile for me.  I'd hate to spend $100 on that and then end up modding it again though, and I am not 100% settled on the pads or if I am going to add the rest of the lawton damping kit (at this point I've only done about half of it).




Re a closed headphone have you tried the focal spirit pro?

Is it more or less neutralish. 

I love my hd800 at home and really enjoy the focal in transit. 
Sonarworks does have a preset for it. I havent tried it yet. 

The focal has scaled up really well with my sony pha3. 

The only thing i would warn about is if you have large ears the cups may be too small. 

In a nutshell i strongly recommend it to trial if you are looking for a neutral detailed sound with a touch of warmth/laid backness


----------



## fjrabon

thecrow said:


> Re a closed headphone have you tried the focal spirit pro?
> 
> Is it more or less neutralish.
> 
> ...




Yeah, it was pretty good, but I preferred the Fostex line a little bit more. The ether C, EMU Teak and my modded THX00 are the three best I've heard so far. It's more than just signature. Signature wise I love my Shure SRH840, but it just rings too much and loses too much clarity to be end game closed for me.


----------



## MikePio

beztis said:


> looking at the frequnecy response graph at the HD800 and it looks like even though it lifts a bit on the treble, in the higher frequnecy it does not seem to extend all the way to 10db like the hd598 and 400i do (i found those painful) - im hoping that the hd800 with my LDmk3 using mullard m8100 tubes (extremely smooth sound) will be a good end game for me cus i love my hd650, but having comfort issues that really drive me nuts. and im glad they released the hd800 S simply because it lowered the price of the HD800 LOL, u think thats why they did it? cus i a video on youtube where hitler was saying the only difference was its black and the difference in sound can be had by just by adding some stuffing into the hd800 and saving 700$ lol
> 
> 
> also this guy seems pretty relaxed with his hd800s, maybe he is using an ldmk3 with mullard tubes too
> ...


 
  
 I have the Little Dot MKIII with Mullard tubes and the sound is poor with the HD800 (classic). Honestly, if you don't want to spend another grand on the amplifier I would not get the HD800's, they will be too treble hot and bright. The HD800S or (heavily mod) HD800 I am assuming would fair better with inferior amplification, but still it just feels wrong buying a 1700 dollar headphone and running it through a 200 dollar amp (not even mentioning the source). That is like buying a Ferrari and driving it in rush hour and using an octane lower than 91, sure it is nice and you have a Ferrari but you won't experience the maximum performance the car has to offer. Maybe the analogy was poor lol, but seriously, having spent some time now with the HD800 (and I bought it because the prices were lower since the arrival of the HD800S) if I did not have a system constructed to tame bright headphones and strengthen their sonic attributes, I would probably find the HD800 exhausting. The HD650's on the other hand, sound pleasant on the LDMKIII and EF-5, just my 2 cents. Good luck


----------



## rogerthatmand

Hey guys,
 I have the chance to get a Trafomatic Head One used for 800$ and I'm really considering this, since the amp I'm using now is the O2+ODAC.
 What do you guys think? Does anybody here have that amp that can elaborate?


----------



## Thenewguy007

rogerthatmand said:


> Hey guys,
> I have the chance to get a Trafomatic Head One used for 800$ and I'm really considering this, since the amp I'm using now is the O2+ODAC.
> What do you guys think? Does anybody here have that amp that can elaborate?




That's kind of a older niche amp. I haven't seen anyone in the HD800 threads talk about it.

I do know the newer Trafomatic Head 2 is amazing. Someone is selling one in the classifieds for $1,500 (original $2,500 price), an absolute steal.


----------



## ezekiel77

I'm getting the Taurus mkii amp for my desktop system soon. I've heard it has good synergy with the HD800 particularly the treble. Hoping for the best.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I love my Taurus Mk.2 with both my HD800 and LCD-3f (2016 Vintage), expansive soundstage, clarity without being harsh or bright, and detail like you probably haven't heard. My HD800's have the latest ANAX Mod and the Norne Draug 2 balanced and SE, so a couple caveats on synergy.


----------



## ezekiel77

wildcatsare1 said:


> I love my Taurus Mk.2 with both my HD800 and LCD-3f (2016 Vintage), expansive soundstage, clarity without being harsh or bright, and detail like you probably haven't heard. My HD800's have the latest ANAX Mod and the Norne Draug 2 balanced and SE, so a couple caveats on synergy.


 
  
 Strangely enough I like the stock sound enough not to mod it yet. But then you never know.


----------



## Peti

Guys, who. Has any experience on the Alo Audio reference 16 cable with hd800 classic?


----------



## McClelland

ezekiel77 said:


> Strangely enough I like the stock sound enough not to mod it yet. But then you never know.


 

 Similar experience for me of enjoying the stock sound with a Gumby/MJ2/Amperex tube-HD800 rig.  Had read about various mods and was thinking I would try them as I enjoy tinkering, but I've been listening instead and they are growing on me.


----------



## DavidA

ezekiel77 said:


> Strangely enough I like the stock sound enough not to mod it yet. But then you never know.


 
 Same here, the stock sound is quite nice to me and have no urge to do mods yet, not the same with my woody SR-225 and Ypsilon drivers.


----------



## petezjunior

Hey folks, anyone experience a broken sennheiser hd800 after warranty? In the forums I see a lot of issues with audeze and Hifiman qc but not with sennheisers. I'm just curious to the price of drivers or cables break with the hd800s. Can anyone provide any insight into cost? Tyvm.


----------



## Hansotek

petezjunior said:


> Hey folks, anyone experience a broken sennheiser hd800 after warranty? In the forums I see a lot of issues with audeze and Hifiman qc but not with sennheisers. I'm just curious to the price of drivers or cables break with the hd800s. Can anyone provide any insight into cost? Tyvm.




Replacement drivers are $210 each. Not sure if they match them for you or if you have to buy matched pairs. I'm guessing those options would come out to roughly $300 and $500, respectively, with installation service.

The stock cable sells for $300 from dealers, but you can find them used on the sale forum for about $125 or so. If your stock cable does break though, do yourself a favor and get an aftermarket replacement from Norne, WyWires, Double Helix, DanaCable or one of the other well-regarded cable makers. The HD800 is so much better than the boring, flat, shrill stock cable allows it to be.


----------



## NWRain

I bought a stock cable from Sennheiser in 2014 for $214.  I checked on Sennheiser's website, and called them about after warranty service.  The only service they would provide was a $400 flat repair fee.  My serial 6xx were still working really well, but were missing paint, and the cables were broken, so I decided to send them in.  Biggest regret of my life.  They didn't even repair my phones.  They just sent a replacement SN41XXX headphone instead.
  
 Does anyone know if Sennheiser changed their production process on the HD800?   The replacement headphone sounds different than my original.


----------



## johnjen

There is Always unit to unit variation.
 Do you have the response curve for your original 800's?
 And you should be able to request the curve for your replacements as well.
  
 Comparing these 2 graphs will mostly tell you what has changed.
 Sort of.
 At least it's a place to start.
  
 JJ


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

And unless you like loose connectors and slow service, *avoid Venus Audio.*


----------



## thefitz

bosiemoncrieff said:


> And unless you like loose connectors and slow service, *avoid Venus Audio.*


 

 I haven't had problems with loose connectors. Definitely not speedy service, but the three cables I have/had hold up fine.


----------



## lenroot77

thefitz said:


> I haven't had problems with loose connectors. Definitely not speedy service, but the three cables I have/had hold up fine.





I also haven't had any quality issues with the 3 cables I've purchased, but it's a slow service for sure. Even when messaging on eBay, the response is slow.


----------



## thefitz

lenroot77 said:


> I also haven't had any quality issues with the 3 cables I've purchased, but it's a slow service for sure. Even when messaging on eBay, the response is slow.


 

 This actually worked in my favour - I wanted a different cable than I initially asked for and they switched it!


----------



## DavidA

bosiemoncrieff said:


> And unless you like loose connectors and slow service, *avoid Venus Audio.*


 
 The HD-800 cable from them is great, sold it after I built my own and the other 3 cables (2 hifiman, 1 HD-6xx) all worked great, only have one of the hifiman left, sold the other 2 since I have been building my own.  I guess every one has different experiences with various sellers.


----------



## Sorrodje

Yup .Very good experience with Venus Audio as well. Very well built cable. Very resistant despite the fact I'm not careful at all with this poor cable.


----------



## icebear

petezjunior said:


> Hey folks, anyone experience a broken sennheiser hd800 after warranty? In the forums I see a lot of issues with audeze and Hifiman qc *but not with sennheisers*. I'm just curious to the price of drivers or cables break with the hd800s. Can anyone provide any insight into cost? Tyvm.


 

 If you are reasonably careful handling the HD800 (not dropping it or yanking the cable, or stepping on it) then it just doesn't break.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Therefore there isn't a lot of talk on issues with the HD800.


----------



## kelly200269

Just moved from Sennheiser single-ended stock cable, driven by Lehmann Linear Black. I loved the warmth of this combination, and it was _extremely_ listenable. Very warm, and easy-going.
But I was curious to see how far I could push the HD800's...
Now listening to them via Cardas balanced cable, driven by Musical Fidelity MX-HPA. WOW!
Everything is now 'tightened up'. The slightly flabby bass has gone, and is taught and precise. The slightly muddy soundstage is now clear-as-a-bell, and this combination is a clear improvement.


----------



## Taliesin

I was considering getting the Schiit lyr with tubes and liist solid state tubes. Is this a good combo for the hd800 (my only high end headphones are the 800). I've not been on headfi much over the past two years, are their any new popular amps for under $1000 or same old recommendations eg vioelectric. 
Other option is the hdvd800 as I can get one discount by a third of the rrp.
Im based in the UK so more limited in options than those in the us.
Thanks for any help people can provide.


----------



## JamieMcC

taliesin said:


> I was considering getting the Schiit lyr with tubes and liist solid state tubes. Is this a good combo for the hd800 (my only high end headphones are the 800). I've not been on headfi much over the past two years, are their any new popular amps for under $1000 or same old recommendations eg vioelectric.
> Other option is the hdvd800 as I can get one discount by a third of the rrp.
> Thanks for any help people can provide.


 
  
 Dsavitski  (aka ECP Audio) released the Torpedo III recently it is $550 stock or just over $700 with Nickle core cinemag output transforrmers! All reviews have been stellathere is a page on headfi.
  
 http://www.beezar.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=166


----------



## SearchOfSub

edit.


----------



## FLTWS

taliesin said:


> I was considering getting the Schiit lyr with tubes and liist solid state tubes. Is this a good combo for the hd800 (my only high end headphones are the 800). I've not been on headfi much over the past two years, are their any new popular amps for under $1000 or same old recommendations eg vioelectric.
> Other option is the hdvd800 as I can get one discount by a third of the rrp.
> Thanks for any help people can provide.


 
  
 The Schiit Mjolnir 2 with tubes and LISST's is under $1,000. I really like mine with the 800, especially in balanced mode. The LISST's turned out to be be much more enjoyable than I thought they would be as a long standing classical music tube-o-phile. 15 day no hassle return policy for in home evaluation is tough to beat. Check out the MJ2 threads here on Head-Fi.


----------



## thecrow

taliesin said:


> I was considering getting the Schiit lyr with tubes and liist solid state tubes. Is this a good combo for the hd800 (my only high end headphones are the 800). I've not been on headfi much over the past two years, are their any new popular amps for under $1000 or same old recommendations eg vioelectric.
> Other option is the hdvd800 as I can get one discount by a third of the rrp.
> Im based in the UK so more limited in options than those in the us.
> Thanks for any help people can provide.




Some very strong comments in recent times for the v281 and the MicroZOTL2.0 (which i have not heard). 

Perhaps worth looking at the musical fidelity amp that kelly200269 mentioned. It migh be a little bit of a sleeper at under $1k (USD) too


----------



## thecrow

thecrow said:


> Some very strong comments in recent times for the v281 and the MicroZOTL2.0 (which i have not heard).
> 
> Perhaps worth looking at the musical fidelity amp that kelly200269 mentioned. It migh be a little bit of a sleeper at under $1k (USD) too




Personally i have my wa2 and i'm quite happy with that with its silky and detailed nature. But that with upgraded tubes gets between $1600 and $2000


----------



## fjrabon

jamiemcc said:


> Dsavitski  (aka ECP Audio) released the Torpedo III recently it is $550 stock or just over $700 with Nickle core cinemag output transforrmers! All reviews have been stellathere is a page on headfi.
> 
> http://www.beezar.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=166




Yes, though to be fair those prices are for the kit, not the finished version. If you max it out its around $1500. But yes, it's the best amp ive heard with the HD800 (hence why I bought one). The new output CCS takes it to another height of what was already amazing. If you get one, I'd say the cinemags and output CCS are necessary upgrades and the mundorfs and tube CCS are worth upgrades. Maxed out it wipes the floor with mjolnir and Lyr 2. Lyr 2 is a fine amp, but has a tad bit of harshness and loses a touch of bass control. To me Lyr 2 sounds like what it is: a starving student on steroids. The Torpedo III's parafeed OTC topology and the materials that go into it are another level. Both are great values at their price points.


----------



## JamieMcC

A used Bottlehead Mainline should come in under $1000 and has great synergy with HD800 I've had mine for just over a year now and it makes me grin every time I listen to it.


----------



## jibzilla

The mainline is excellent as well as the wheatfield ha-2 if you can find one. I have yet to listen to a ECP Torpedo III but I just got in a Ravenswood yesterday and so far so good. New toy syndrome but yeah so far really impressed.


----------



## raybone0566

jibzilla said:


> The mainline is excellent as well as the wheatfield ha-2 if you can find one. I have yet to listen to a ECP Torpedo III but I just got in a Ravenswood yesterday and so far so good. New toy syndrome but yeah so far really impressed.


Like to hear your impressions


----------



## DavidA

taliesin said:


> I was considering getting the Schiit lyr with tubes and liist solid state tubes. Is this a good combo for the hd800 (my only high end headphones are the 800). I've not been on headfi much over the past two years, are their any new popular amps for under $1000 or same old recommendations eg vioelectric.
> Other option is the hdvd800 as I can get one discount by a third of the rrp.
> Im based in the UK so more limited in options than those in the us.
> Thanks for any help people can provide.


 
 I have a Lyr2 and would not recommend it for the HD-800, as the others have posted above there are much better options.
  
 The Torpedo III, Mainline, and Elise would be my suggestions for under $1500 which includes upgraded tubes, at a lower price point a BH Crack at $400-500 would be my choice.


----------



## lenroot77

I enjoyed the liquid carbon with the hd800's, they appear on occasion for 600 on the classifieds.


----------



## Hansotek

lenroot77 said:


> I enjoyed the liquid carbon with the hd800's, they appear on occasion for 600 on the classifieds.


 
  
 That would be my recommendation as well. Loved the HD800 with the LC.


----------



## rocketron

+1 for the Carbon and HD800S.


----------



## jibzilla

raybone0566 said:


> Like to hear your impressions


 
  
 I can do impression on the outside. The rest I think I will post in the ECP thread after I have listened for a couple weeks and compare it to my peak/volcano.
  
 My impression on the outside is not all that great. Good but not great. It is pretty easy inexpensive fixes though. The front of the Ravenswood is the best I have ever seen. Really cool on/off switch with the logo. Nice clean looks with a very nice stepped attenuator and big metal knob. Really nice case as well, not your traditional brushed steel and much nicer looking than most cases I have seen. The feet and back of the Ravenswood leaves allot to be desired though. No lettering on the back for the inputs and outputs, not even a left/right which makes it look very d.i.y..  You get 6 feet with the Ravenswood but they are some of the smallest and cheapest feet I have seen. I put 4 herbie's audio lab tenderfeet on it before I turned it on. A+ on the front and casing, D on the feet and back, Overall: C+
  
 This probably would not cost a whole lot to fix and the last reason I got the Ravenswood but I think it deserves mentioning.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I loved the Cavalli room at the SF meet, but since Carbon has been discontinued, I'm not sure I can give it the nod above Mjolnir 2. The used market is fine, but being out of production is a significant mark against any product.


----------



## MWSVette

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I loved the Cavalli room at the SF meet, but since Carbon has been discontinued, I'm not sure I can give it the nod above Mjolnir 2. The used market is fine,* but being out of production is a significant mark against any product.*


 
  
  
 Just out of curiosity, why?
  
 Most Cavalli products ever made are out of production.


----------



## thecrow

If im not mistaken the lc comes with a lifetime warranty thats transferable.


----------



## MWSVette

thecrow said:


> If im not mistaken the lc comes with a lifetime warranty thats transferable.


 
  First run does.  I do not know about the second...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

mwsvette said:


> Just out of curiosity, why?
> 
> Most Cavalli products ever made are out of production.


 
 Harder to get, no fixed price. Same reason K1000 is a hard recommendation above HD800, original Omega above SR009, classic 160GB iPod above current iPhone. MDR-R10...period.
  
 Cavalli has great products, but in keeping a certain DIY spirit alive, they sacrifice some of the predictability and regularity of a more established company.
  
 And, anyway, MJ2 can do tube *and* solid state.


----------



## SearchOfSub

edit.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

speaking of K1000, I just got mine. Any interest in a comparison with HD800?


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> speaking of K1000, I just got mine. Any interest in a comparison with HD800?


 

 Yes, thanks.


----------



## Peti

bosiemoncrieff said:


> speaking of K1000, I just got mine. Any interest in a comparison with HD800?


I'm all ears!


----------



## etc6849

I'm new to headphones, but really into high-end audio and acoustics.  Just bought a pair of new HD800 (old model not sure how to pluralize it).  My Serial number is 459xx where xx is a secret two digit number.
  
 I attempted to measure my HD800 headphones.  I realize this is half a$$ed, but I'm not going to buy a $10k+ setup to measure my first pair of real headphones.  I used my Steinberg UR22mkII and Earthworks M30 mic to measure the HD800, but had to set gain all the way up on the phono jack as shown. Using RoomEQ (REW) with no curve smoothing at all.  After measuring my acoustical treated room probably 50-100 times, never seen such a clean measurement!
  
 Absolutely could not get a "spike" at 6kHz (in this one position).  Of course, this is probably expected as I'm using foam and it should do a decent job absorbing above 150Hz.  This makes me think the 6kHz issue is a consequence of reflections from using a proper HATS measurement jig to more accurately model the acoustic space of the ear.  It could also be that I need to try more than one position.  Going to do a re-measure.
  
 Personally, I'm really surprised how flat the freq resp is; +/-5dB down to 10Hz without my ear forming the proper acoustic chamber!  The impulse looks ideal.  Only thing not ideal looking is the decay times for the low frequencies, but that just shows you how the foam is absorbing only the higher frequencies.
  
 THD hit 6% at 10Hz, but was below .1% for anything above 100-200Hz.  The 6% THD is likely my USB soundcard's phono amp being maxed out.  I only have one USB port on my Surface and I'm too lazy to get a hub to use the Oppo HA-1 as the phono amp.  I also forgot to save my file so I don't have the THD plots  
  
 Plan to redo this next week using an Oppo HA-1 and my Steinberg UR22mkII for the mic input.  I'll be sure to save my file for you guys when I build my XLR-4 cable and retest.


----------



## FLTWS

Did you request/or have the frequency response from Sennheiser for comparison? The request is a part of the website registration form.


----------



## etc6849

Thanks, I will do this!
  
 Quote:


fltws said:


> Did you request/or have the frequency response from Sennheiser for comparison? The request is a part of the website registration form.


----------



## etc6849

How long before they email the response to me?  I still haven't received an email; only been a few minutes though.
  
 I used this link:  http://en-de.sennheiser.com/service-support/services/register-your-product
  
 EDIT:  just now got a response: "The frequency response certificate is going to be created within the next
 few days and will be sent to you by e-mail."
  
 Quote:


fltws said:


> Did you request/or have the frequency response from Sennheiser for comparison? The request is a part of the website registration form.


----------



## FLTWS

There ya go! Sennheiser; quality products and service. I have the HD600 and their model 239, and auditioned the HD800 for almost 24 hours total over the period of a week in my home last week. They are at the top of my list for a buy. I've got the Enigma Acoustics Dharma D1000 in house presently for audition. I'll follow that up with HiFi Man Ed. X or 1000, and hopefully after that I'm next on the list to take a test drive in the 800S.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

fltws said:


> There ya go! Sennheiser; quality products and service. I have the HD600 and their model 239, and auditioned the HD800 for almost 24 hours total over the period of a week in my home last week. They are at the top of my list for a buy. I've got the Enigma Acoustics Dharma D1000 in house presently for audition. I'll follow that up with HiFi Man Ed. X or 1000, and hopefully after that I'm next on the list to take a test drive in the 800S.


 

 I'd take LCD-X above Edition X any day. More musical, way more refined bass.


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'd take LCD-X above Edition X any day. More musical, way more refined bass.


 
  
 Noted.


----------



## Hansotek

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'd take LCD-X above Edition X any day. More musical, way more refined bass.




Agreed. HEX is not very impressive for the price. Which is pretty ironic, given that it is supposed to be a "budget" HEK.


----------



## etc6849

I did some tests using the Oppo HA-1 phono unbalanced and UR22mkII for mic input.  I did several runs, each run is a slightly different seating, and these are more centered.  Some runs show phase anomalies when the mic isn't perpendicular to the driver of the HD800.
  
 Distortion is lower, but still seeing 2nd harmonic distortion, although some would say 2-3% is decent at 20Hz.  Note that the dB level is not calibrated.
  
 https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1J0a4OV_WGLd1E1eXpFRElkSFk

 Download REW to view file:  http://www.roomeqwizard.com/


----------



## jibzilla

hansotek said:


> Agreed. HEX is not very impressive for the price. Which is pretty ironic, given that it is supposed to be a "budget" HEK.


 
  
 The Lcd-X would be what I call the weakest out of my 3 headphones but it is still pretty darn good. I would say the headphones I own are all within a couple of percent of each other and more different flavors than one is better. I like the Lcd-x with electronic and rap.


----------



## fjrabon

jibzilla said:


> The Lcd-X would be what I call the weakest out of my 3 headphones but it is still pretty darn good. I would say the headphones I own are all within a couple of percent of each other and more different flavors than one is better. I like the Lcd-x with electronic and rap.




I thought the HEX was incredible except it had a very soft leading edge that I just couldn't adjust to. It's incredibly easy to listen to and non-fatiguing though. But it just didn't engage me with the music. The LCDX I found lacking in soundstage and s touch off the others in resolution, but otherwise very good.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I've been toying with LCDX. I would get it for solo piano and very small ensembles, as well as making older/poorly recorded recordings sound better. Obviously it can't compete with HD800 in terms of soundstage, neutrality, detail retrieval, etc.


----------



## shultzee

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I've been toying with LCDX. I would get it for solo piano and very small ensembles, as well as making older/poorly recorded recordings sound better. Obviously it can't compete with HD800 in terms of soundstage, neutrality, detail retrieval, etc.


 

 Had LCDx and have HD800 .  I agree with your summary 100%


----------



## Hansotek

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I've been toying with LCDX. I would get it for solo piano and very small ensembles, as well as making older/poorly recorded recordings sound better. Obviously it can't compete with HD800 in terms of soundstage, neutrality, detail retrieval, etc.




I'm surprised you're not going for a boss speaker amp instead, given you now have the HE-6 and the K1K.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

hansotek said:


> I'm surprised you're not going for a boss speaker amp instead, given you now have the HE-6 and the K1K.


 

 What specific models do you recommend?


----------



## Hansotek

bosiemoncrieff said:


> What specific models do you recommend?




I'd ask ohhgourami in the HE-6 thread. He knows way more about speaker amps than I do.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

hansotek said:


> I'd ask @ohhgourami in the HE-6 thread. He knows way more about speaker amps than I do.


 

 That thread always makes me feel inadequate. The disdain for less exotic systems and disbelief that someone could enjoy them has put me off.


----------



## Hansotek

bosiemoncrieff said:


> That thread always makes me feel inadequate. The disdain for less exotic systems and disbelief that someone could enjoy them has put me off.




No worries, there are some strong opinions in there. I get where you are coming from.


----------



## Zoom25

Speaking of speaker amps, anyone here have good experience with Class D and HD 800?


----------



## ruthieandjohn

etc6849 said:


> I'm new to headphones, but really into high-end audio and acoustics.  Just bought a pair of new HD800 (old model not sure how to pluralize it).  My Serial number is 459xx where xx is a secret two digit number.
> 
> I attempted to measure my HD800 headphones.  I realize this is half a$$ed, but I'm not going to buy a $10k+ setup to measure my first pair of real headphones.  I used my Steinberg UR22mkII and Earthworks M30 mic to measure the HD800, but had to set gain all the way up on the phono jack as shown. Using RoomEQ (REW) with no curve smoothing at all.  After measuring my acoustical treated room probably 50-100 times, never seen such a clean measurement!
> 
> ...



Thanks for your fabulous home made measurements. Even if they don't use HATS or match those of others, they are so useful as relative measurements to assess such changes as when you go to balanced XLR. Great post!


----------



## etc6849

You can see a 2dB bump near 6kHz; definitely not a spike, but when you introduce an ear I bet it gets worse.  Can't wait to make an XLR-4 cable next week. 
  
 I suspect a dramatic reduction in THD for lower frequencies when the headphone amp is used in balanced mode.  Right now it is dominated by 2nd order harmonic distortion.
  
 There should be 4 times the power available since the voltage is double the unbalanced voltage and noise will be cancelled out.  Next week will be a real test of the Oppo HA-1...  I know I am really impressed with just using the phono cable right now though.  These are great headphones and it's awesome to get them brand new below $1000 with a 60 day return policy.
  


  
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


ruthieandjohn said:


> Thanks for your fabulous home made measurements. Even if they don't use HATS or match those of others, they are so useful as relative measurements to assess such changes as when you go to balanced XLR. Great post!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Sennheiser HD800 vs. AKG K1000 (bass light)
  
 First Installment - Prologue. _Note: This is the first of an ongoing series of posts I plan to write __comparing the old champ (K1000) with reigning champion (HD800)__, presumably to be collected as a review at a future point. Yes, Mjolnir 2 is probably woefully insufficient to reveal K1000's full beauty, but I don't have 6k to drop on a WA5 at the moment, so I'll update this as my amp situation changes._
  
 When I listen to the K1000, especially in the context of the HD800, one of the strongest associations I make is with the Gothic Cathedral of St. Peter of Beauvais:
  

  
  
 Beauvais was the tallest cathedral in Europe at the time, pushing the technology of vaulted ceilings to its limits. It is regarded widely as "the Parthenon of French Gothic." However, after its choir collapsed and was rebuilt, and plans to build a nave (largest part of cathedral, where the congregants sit) never came to be, it became an oddity, an aspirational object as beautiful for its achievements as its failure to reach the goals it set for itself.
  
 Such is the K1000. 
  
 HD800 receives its share of criticism. "Not enough bass!" "Amp finicky!" "Sennheiser veil!" "Cold!" "Bright!" "Bad for anything except jazz and classical!" To the extent that these complaints are true (with the exception of the veil), they are doubly true of K1000. It is a *bright* headphone. There *is* *not* enough bass for most non-classical applications (and some classical). Perhaps the only time I hear a Sennheiser veil with HD800 is coming from K1000. These ear-speakers (worthier of the term than anything stax has produced) are definitely amp finicky: whereas a reliable vali (1 or 2) can make an HD800 sing, K1000 are barely cooperative with the much heftier Mjolnir 2 and very warm Amperax 1968 orange globes (but we're going to have to make do unless someone has a WA5 they care to lend me). On comfort it's not even close. K1000 slides around, and you're never quite sure whether it's positioned exactly right. God help you if you want them to stay positioned correctly as you recline. HD800 can sit comfortably on your ears in many different environments, including as you lie in bed (as I'm doing presently, with HD800). 
  
 K1000 is a prima donna. She knows she's among the best. Bright amp? She will spit in your face. Insufficient power? Good luck getting anything out of her. To make the obligatory car analogy, if K1000 is a Lamborghini, HD800 is a Mercedes S Class, or maxed-out Tesla Model S. The rattle that @DavidMahler talked about? Eerily similar to that of my q701 (which, uninitiated and naive, I thought was an issue with the source or my hearing, lol). K1000 gives no schiits about her rattle, though, and will start flirting with the guy next to you if you mention it.
  
 If I were playing bang/marry/kill, inevitably it would be K1000, HD800, Abyss (tee, hee).
  
 I find myself listening with the grills swiveled open just wide enough so that they do not touch my ears, but not the full way (which necessitates much louder volumes, and higher chance of rattle, with certain piano frequencies and soprano registers.
  
 I plan to spend future installments on (at least) solo piano, lieder, chamber music/string quartets, baroque music (including choral and opera), symphonic music post-1780, and opera (from Mozart), perhaps giving Wagner his own separate installment. Please let me know if there are any specific recordings, compositions, or composers you would like me to discuss.


----------



## Filleri

That must be one of the BEST post i have ever seen. Informative and HILARIOUS


----------



## Liu Junyuan

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






bosiemoncrieff said:


> Sennheiser HD800 vs. AKG K1000 (bass light)
> 
> First Installment - Prologue. _Note: This is the first of an ongoing series of posts I plan to write __comparing the old champ (K1000) with reigning champion (HD800)__, presumably to be collected as a review at a future point. Yes, Mjolnir 2 is probably woefully insufficient to reveal their full beauty, but I don't have 6k to drop on a WA5 at the moment, so I'll update this as my amp situation changes._
> 
> ...


 
  


 Thanks for sharing about the Cathedral. I am inclined to research further into this now.
  
 You do not need a WA5 for the HD800, nor is there a dichotomy between solely the Mjolnir 2, which is already a fantastic amplifier for the HD800 and beyond, and the Woo. The Mjolnir 2 allows you to skip over the black hole that is the $1K-2K range of amps, but you might consider something between $2k and 3K later.
  
 Since I have not heard the K1000, I cannot comment on your analogies there, but that of the unfinished Cathedral with high and unrealistic aspirations really clarified things.
  
 Nice post.


----------



## ezekiel77

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Sennheiser HD800 vs. AKG K1000 (bass light)


 
  
 Wow. Glad to have read that. Excellent analogies!


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Sennheiser HD800 vs. AKG K1000 (bass light)...
> 
> I plan to spend future installments on (at least) solo piano, lieder, chamber music/string quartets, baroque music (including choral and opera), symphonic music post-1780, and opera (from Mozart), perhaps giving Wagner his own separate installment. Please let me know if there are any specific recordings, compositions, or composers you would like me to discuss.


 
  
 Anything covering the periods, forms, or composers you mention works for me. Most commentaries / reviews I've read relating to high-ish end audio electronics and (headphone) transducers, since I've returned to the land of audiophilia, tend focus on the use of more current and popular forms of music in evaluating sonic qualities.
  
 I myself have been keeping a diary of my in-home headphone evaluations in a quest for my classical music listening "ɡrāl" in an H/P system. 
  
 I did a ridiculously long tome on my time with the 800 and the sound of a dozen different recorded versions of Mahler 5 / first movement (in addition to my primary 5 evaluation recordings). Lots of fun and ear-opening for me actually, but hard on the carpal tunnel syndrome keeping notes and typing them up.


----------



## McClelland

etc6849 said:


>


 
 I'll be looking forward to your report on the balanced system. Changing Mjolnir 2/Gumby to balanced cables improved SQ notably to my ear with Audeze LCD-X and Senn HD800 HPs.


----------



## McClelland

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I've been toying with LCDX. I would get it for solo piano and very small ensembles, as well as making older/poorly recorded recordings sound better. Obviously it can't compete with HD800 in terms of soundstage, neutrality, detail retrieval, etc.


 
  
  


jibzilla said:


> The Lcd-X would be what I call the weakest out of my 3 headphones but it is still pretty darn good. I would say the headphones I own are all within a couple of percent of each other and more different flavors than one is better. I like the Lcd-x with electronic and rap.


 
 I've been enjoying both HPs but am still new to the comparison and haven't had as much time as I thought I might to compare.  I have had the impression the LCD-Xs maybe particularly sweet listening to recordings with a limited number of acoustic stringed instruments and vocals. Also tenor sax.  The HD800 speed and clarity shines with complex recordings. I continue to have the sense that my experience of both HPs is influenced by the physical/tactile feel of them over my ears and the cueing of a mood when I put either of them on: I'm in an open, light-filled space with no ceiling when wearing the HD800 and an intimate, small club or music hall with wonderful acoustics with the LCD-X.  I wouldn't have expected this tactile dimension to have such an influence, but I think it is playing a role in what I anticipate, just as knowing I'm going to hear live music at different familiar venues has an effect on what I am looking forward to.


----------



## etc6849

My newly purchased HD800.





fltws said:


> Did you request/or have the frequency response from Sennheiser for comparison? The request is a part of the website registration form.


----------



## FLTWS

etc6849 said:


> My newly purchased HD800.


 
  
 I'm seriously contemplating a buy of the HD800 even as I continue to demo others. I'll have to remember to post the graph I get.


----------



## FLTWS

mcclelland said:


> I've been enjoying both HPs but am still new to the comparison and haven't had as much time as I thought I might to compare.  I have had the impression the LCD-Xs maybe particularly sweet listening to recordings with a limited number of acoustic stringed instruments and vocals. Also tenor sax.  The HD800 speed and clarity shines with complex recordings. I continue to have the sense that my experience of both HPs is influenced by the physical/tactile feel of them over my ears and the cueing of a mood when I put either of them on: I'm in an open, light-filled space with no ceiling when wearing the HD800 and an intimate, small club or music hall with wonderful acoustics with the LCD-X.  I wouldn't have expected this tactile dimension to have such an influence, but I think it is playing a role in what I anticipate, just as knowing I'm going to hear live music at different familiar venues has an effect on what I am looking forward to.


 

 Interesting comment, I think you may be on to something.


----------



## thecrow

etc6849 said:


> My newly purchased HD800.



With my chart #314xx i have a more gradual/steady climb from 3k to 6k

Perhaps why even though they're bright ive never thought of it as a sharp peak. 

Perhaps mine put together on a bad quality control day


----------



## ruthieandjohn

@boisemincrieff, truly FABULOUS post, lovingly described and lavishly illustrated, with great humor. I really look forward to the next installments.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

ruthieandjohn said:


> @boisemincrieff, truly FABULOUS post, lovingly described and lavishly illustrated, with great humor. I really look forward to the next installments.


 
 Thank you for your kind words! I've been listening for less than 24 hours, and I'm already absolutely addicted to K1000 sound. We'll see whether it's a halo effect, but they've brought me nearly to tears twice now. Some EQ is advisable, however. I already EQ the HD800 a bit:
  

  
 However, this has proved insufficient for K1000, so I have added to my stable:

  
 I will as necessary iterate further to find the perfect EQ. Without going into too much detail here, EQ is almost required to make the headphone listen-able.


----------



## MikePio

Hey guys! 
  
 I have been listening to my HD800 (unmodded classic) and have decided to change the stock cable. So i got a copper cable (as to my knowledge the original is silver plated with copper?) and to my surprise the cable really did make an audible difference that was clearly evident while switching back and forth between the original cable. The all copper wire seemed to accentuate the bass quantity and provide a more euphonic sound in general and it did tame the HD800's down (never really had an issue with this though). The problem is that the soundstage is drastically decreased. It is almost like with the original cable everything is pushed slightly back making the sound almost give the feeling that it is coming from thin air and the transparency and resolution is amazing. With the copper cable the sound feels more intimate and the mids are brought forward while the soundstage is much more like a sphere and much more similar to a regular headphone. I know that many people pair these with an all copper wire, does anyone notice this happening when comparing to the stock? Perhaps my setup is to blame but now I am shipping back the copper cable and ordered a only silver one instead. Anyone else have a only silver cable with the HD800's? Cheers.


----------



## Hansotek

mikepio said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> I have been listening to my HD800 (unmodded classic) and have decided to change the stock cable. So i got a copper cable (as to my knowledge the original is silver plated with copper?) and to my surprise the cable really did make an audible difference that was clearly evident while switching back and forth between the original cable. The all copper wire seemed to accentuate the bass quantity and provide a more euphonic sound in general and it did tame the HD800's down (never really had an issue with this though). The problem is that the soundstage is drastically decreased. It is almost like with the original cable everything is pushed slightly back making the sound almost give the feeling that it is coming from thin air and the transparency and resolution is amazing. With the copper cable the sound feels more intimate and the mids are brought forward while the soundstage is much more like a sphere and much more similar to a regular headphone. I know that many people pair these with an all copper wire, does anyone notice this happening when comparing to the stock? Perhaps my setup is to blame but now I am shipping back the copper cable and ordered a only silver one instead. Anyone else have a only silver cable with the HD800's? Cheers.


 
  
 There are a lot of factors that might have contributed to that shrinking soundstage. A brighter cable, for one, can increase perceived soundstage size. But every cable is different. The end result will depend heavily on the design philosophy. Boiling it down to just copper vs. silver is a bit of an oversimplification. A copper cable can easily be better or worse than a silver one, based on the design.
  
 Basically, it boils down to 3 factors: Capacitance (the cable's ability to store an electrical charge), Inductance (the ratio of voltage to the rate of change in current), and the Resistance/Conductivity (how difficult it is to pass an electrical current through the cable). Resistance is generally the value that varies most from cable to cable. This is determined by the conductivity of the metal and the shape of the wire itself.
  
 The conductivity rating of a metal is measured relative to the International Annealed Copper Standard (IACS). This shows how conductive a given metal is relative to the copper standard (which is 100) in terms of percentage. So here are some common values for cable materials:
  
 Copper = 100 IACS
 OFC Copper = 101 IACS
 OCC Copper = 103 IACS
 Silver = 106 IACS
  
 So, in other words, a silver wire will be 6% more conductive than a copper wire of the same shape.
  
 The next (and perhaps most important determining factor) is the size and shape of the wire. How thick is it? How far does the signal have to go? You can figure that out using a calculator like this one: http://www.cirris.com/learning-center/calculators/133-wire-resistance-calculator-table
  
 For a 6ft cable, look how much resistance drops as you scale up in size:
  
 24AWG = 0.154 ohm
 18AWG = 0.038 ohm
 14AWG = 0.015 ohm
 12AWG = 0.010 ohm
 10AWG = 0.006 ohm
 8 AWG = 0.004 ohm
  
 So, you can see from the numbers above, a signal traveling through a thin 24AWG wire encounters 38.5 times more resistance than a signal passing through a thicker 8AWG wire.
  
 These numbers also vary with length. If we double the length of the 8AWG wire from 6 feet to 12 feet, the resistance will change proportionally from 0.004 ohm to 0.008 ohm.
  
 So you have to look at the whole picture to determine what you actually have with the cable. If we start multiplying these numbers together, we can see a 6ft 12AWG cable (0.0094 ohms) actually has 57% more resistance than a 10AWG copper cable of the same length (0.006 ohms).
  
 Other things play a factor too, like the quality of connectors and overall craftsmanship, but there is a lot of marketing speak that convolutes the basics in differentiating one type of cable from another. It would take far too long to try and cover it all here. But hopefully, this helps clear up the picture a bit so it makes it easier to understand what you are actually getting. Perhaps with some further analysis of the differences between the cable you ordered and the stock Sennheiser cable, you can find a cable that is more to your liking.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

hansotek said:


> There are a lot of factors that might have contributed to that shrinking soundstage. A brighter cable, for one, can increase perceived soundstage size. But every cable is different. The end result will depend heavily on the design philosophy. Boiling it down to just copper vs. silver is a bit of an oversimplification. A copper cable can easily be better or worse than a silver one, based on the design..
> 
> Cheers.


 
 Wow!  Not only the best post I have read today (and I even re-read some of mine!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), it is the best treatment of what the scientific basis, with realistic values as examples, for cables affecting the sound of the headphone.  Wonderful post!


----------



## Thenewguy007

hansotek said:


> There are a lot of factors that might have contributed to that shrinking soundstage. A brighter cable, for one, can increase perceived soundstage size. But every cable is different. The end result will depend heavily on the design philosophy. Boiling it down to just copper vs. silver is a bit of an oversimplification. A copper cable can easily be better or worse than a silver one, based on the design.
> 
> Basically, it boils down to 3 factors: Capacitance (the cable's ability to store an electrical charge), Inductance (the ratio of voltage to the rate of change in current), and the Resistance/Conductivity (how difficult it is to pass an electrical current through the cable). Resistance is generally the value that varies most from cable to cable. This is determined by the conductivity of the metal and the shape of the wire itself.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the lesson!


----------



## icebear

hansotek said:


> ....
> For a 6ft cable, look how much resistance drops as you scale up in size:
> 
> 24AWG = 0.154 ohm
> ...


 
  
 The numbers taken by themselves make sense and 0.008 Ohm is indeed 2x more than 0.004 Ohm but we don't listen to the cable itself,
 ... we listen to a headphone
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And since this is the HD800 thread we are talking about an impedance range of 300 to 600Ohm.
  
 Does the impedance difference contributed by the cable really make a difference for the amp to drive the headphone?
 The impedance of the headphone is not constant over the frequency spectrum, it's a dynamic driver.
 So 300.0094 to 600.0094 Ohm or 300.004 to 600.004 Ohm seem pretty irrelevant to me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Having said that, I have a Norne Vanquish 12ft in balanced 2x 3-pin Neutrik XLR configuration, I am happy with it and not experimenting with anything else. When asking Trevor for advice on the cable and explaining that I didn't want to change the sound in any way, I just wanted a balanced cable to go with my amp, he told me that the Vanquish was neutral and would not color the sound in any direction. That's what it sounds like to me and I like it.


----------



## etc6849

Pretty much what I was about to post.  The cable resistance is in series with the driver which is much larger in impedance, so you aren't going to really hear a difference (but you may honestly believe you are).
  
 That said, I just built an XLR-4 cable using nice magomi wire and swear I hear more bass, but that's more than likely due to using the full differential amp mode of my Oppo HA-1.  Still need to post measurements.


----------



## MikePio

hansotek said:


> There are a lot of factors that might have contributed to that shrinking soundstage. A brighter cable, for one, can increase perceived soundstage size. But every cable is different. The end result will depend heavily on the design philosophy. Boiling it down to just copper vs. silver is a bit of an oversimplification. A copper cable can easily be better or worse than a silver one, based on the design.
> 
> Basically, it boils down to 3 factors: Capacitance (the cable's ability to store an electrical charge), Inductance (the ratio of voltage to the rate of change in current), and the Resistance/Conductivity (how difficult it is to pass an electrical current through the cable). Resistance is generally the value that varies most from cable to cable. This is determined by the conductivity of the metal and the shape of the wire itself.
> 
> ...



 


Thank you for the thorough and concise explanation! Never knew that so many minute and complex aspects can change the sound from one cable to another. This is really eye opening and will definitely guide me toward the cable that best suits my musical tastes. I remember the first time I changed my interconnects from a monster cable to a more expensive (but still within sane reason) silver serpent cables the difference was clearly evident, even the volume on the same position was louder on the silver cable. Now the challenge will be to find which cable length, diameter, material type, craftsmanship and connector quality will provide me with the best listening experience, I have a feeling this will drive me to insanity...  Once again, big thanks for the time and effort of this post, not to mention the educational aspect! You learn something new everyday! Cheers.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff (Aug 7, 2020)

*Sennheiser HD800 vs. AKG K1000 (bass light)*



The system:



And the view:



Housekeeping
Before you read further, I must acknowledge my debt to those reviewers who came before me. [color=#e4af09]@DavidMahler[/color] is certainly the reviewer in chief, and his thoughts on K1000 are a must read. [color=#e4af09]@Piotr Ryka[/color] tried his own hand at the exact comparison I'm attempting, and his thoughts are an absolute must-read. I stand on his considerable shoulders, and hope to make up what I lack in his poetry in detail.
 
*Iterations*. They tell you less about a product perhaps than the company behind it. Audeze got a lot of (justified) flak when they released what felt like a dozen variants of the LCD-2, but they were a fledgling company, and it was their first and only product at the time. Sennheiser, like AKG, has produced just two iterations of their flagship headphone, bass heavy and bass light. David refers to the Sennheisers as having a "fuller tone" in the earlier versions and more air between the instruments in the revision. I have heard only the bass heavy HD800 and the bass light K1000 for any length of time, and this seems to present the greatest possible gulf between their signatures; I would love to A/B the bass light HD800 with the bass heavy K1000 at a future point.

*Soundstage*. To call them merely the soundstage king of headphones may in fact sell them short. I have only spent 2-3 hours listening to the SR-009 (w/ BHSE, at Headamp's SF meet booth last month), and for classical music, K1000 out of my Mjolnir 2 gives them a serious run for their money. The transparency that I hear from them is effortless and breathtaking. Natural cross-feed between channels is surely part of this, and invariably delivers a more persuasive result than the attempt to mimic it that you can find in the SPL Phonitor. Our recording engineers, after all, factor crossed into the recording itself. Something about the solidity of speakers and precision of headphones comes together in K1000 to provide a listening experience of unbelievable transparency—perhaps the best ever, though I’m getting ahead of myself. However, the ear-cups swivel from parallel with the ear to a little over 45° but not quite 60° to it, and therefore _my_ K1000 may not be _your _K1000. However, fully parallel, the speaker grills touch my ears, and I avoid this.

*EQ. *The EQ/anti-EQ debate may be second only to the subjectivists/objectivists in vehemence. I love music, but I don't want the experience to fatigue me. Just as buying an LCD series represents a good way to get around the ugliness of some old recordings, EQ helps me tame the top end (and boost the bottom end) of my K1000 such that the result is both more pleasing and, to me, more natural sounding. *NB: as you widen the soundstage, the bass response declines much faster than the volume in general.*

Iterations, soundstage customizability, and the unusual appeal of EQ may make this review more than usually difficult to replicate for yourself at home. I intend to indicate EQ (see above pictures) and approximate soundstage as often as possible, but I can't guarantee scientific accuracy.

[/housekeeping]



 
*Second Installment -* *Solo Piano (and Harpsichord).* Note: This is the second of an ongoing series of posts I plan to write comparing the old champ (K1000) with reigning champion (HD800), presumably to be collected as a review at a future point. 

The pianoforte, as it was originally called, is perhaps the most devilishly difficult instrument to reproduce acoustically. The attack and decay must be just right; the bass must give heft without bloat; the tone is often liable to become sibilant or fatiguing. Multibit DACs help us a lot, but transducers do not have a cakewalk, and many of them fall short—even the HE-6 and HD600, both of which I like a lot, have yet to give me piano I’m in love with, and part of my search is inspired by my own dissatisfaction with my HD800 (lessened considerably post-bimby).

*Beethoven Piano Sonatas (Emil Gilels)*. This near-complete cycle (missing only 1, 9, and 32) is extremely well engineered, dating from the 1970s and '80s. Originally, I thought solo piano would be clearly a place for HD800 to shine. The massive soundstage of K1000 is, so the thinking would go, somewhat wasted on an ensemble that requires _tone_ first and soundstage only afterwards. Listening to it on K1000 is, truly, an out-of-head experience. I continue to turn my head, thinking I will see a pianist. Wide open grills surely give the most air, but almost disorientingly so. About halfway open is about as closed as I listen, and it's perfect for this piano music. The treble is a little more to the right and the bass to the left, but K1000 envelops me well. Both the EQ settings in the prior post sound great; I go back and forth. Attack is fast, decay is supremely lifelike.
 
The finale to the moonlight sonata is one of the most famous and exciting movements in the piano literature—furious, passionate, sublime. I find that with the above EQ, K1000's tone is more natural than that of HD800, either with my 'HD800' EQ or flat. HD800 has a little congestion in the midrange 0:45-1:00, and frequently thereafter, and the bass seems to lack transparency. The treble is fine, though sharp; the bass, even when fuller, is not as tight as K1000, and doesn't seem as well integrated into the whole frequency spectrum. Their detail retrieval is more or less equal, but I think David had it right when he said HD800 is a very transparent _window_ into the music. Now, he also claimed that K1000 ‘lacked naturalness’ and was ‘not transparent,’ assessments with which I could not disagree more. I hear no barrier whatsoever between me and Gilels.

The 2nd movement of Pathetique is likewise quite famous (and together with the slow movement from Moonlight, the only Beethoven I can play). The lightness of his touch is ably conveyed on K1000. The subtle shades are exquisitely rendered. The differences here are minute: smaller soundstage, more noise, hints of the Sennheiser veil and lack of naturalness at times with HD800.

*Chopin Preludes (Martha Argerich)*. Both headphones render the preludes with gobs of detail and with a highly neutral signature. Here too, however, the K1000 pulls ahead: in transparency, in tone, in soundstage. I can _see_ Argerich pounding out the fury of #16, swaying with the lyricism of #17. Piotr said that K1000 was poetry and HD800 was prose; this assessment does not miss the mark. It seems wrong to call K1000 a ‘euphonic’ headphone, because its signature is, to the extent it loses its neutrality, entirely on the bright side of the ledger, and perhaps the word I’m looking for is the aforesaid transparency, but I am swept up by my music in ways HD800, in all its technical excellence, does not achieve. The left-hand octaves appear from nowhere, and with good EQ (K1000 v.1) feel tactile and palpable. Each note she plays, no matter the speed or octave, seems to have an effortless clarity. 

*Goldberg Variations *(Scott Ross, Harpsichord). I’m not sure anyone has ever held a large-scale competition for “Treble King,” but K1000 has a seemingly limitless upper register, free of grain or sibilance. It would certainly be a serious contender. I reiterate the necessity of EQ to achieve the correct proportion of bass and treble, but once having done it, I find the signature utterly transparent. *Digression! *Of late, the hobby seems to have been unduly enamored of bass-heavy signatures, from Abyss and Audeze down to Dr. Dre. Although K1000 sounds tinny without EQ to my ears, I think we might do well to acknowledge the impact changing tastes and trends have on the products the industry produces. 1989 is a far place indeed from 2016, and though the treble emphasis is real, it seems as though we are throwing the baby out with the bathwater if we refuse to compensate for a tuning with which our tastes differ. While I *can* listen to unequalized recordings, I must do so at lower volumes, and the experience fatigues more quickly. I am not an expert on baroque music, however, so must defer to experts about the correct sound of a harpsichord. [/*digression*]

K1000 handles the Goldbergs with aplomb. Complex passages are rendered effortlessly, with great air around the notes, a black background (being inefficient helps them here), and each inflection of Ross’s clearly communicated to the listener. The expressive range of the harpsichord is narrow: the strings are plucked rather than hit, making different volumes difficult, and entire pieces played within a much smaller range than the piano. The transient response here is just excellent. David likes calling his favorite TR ‘liquid-like,’ a phrase I’m sure Cavalli only encourages. I don’t know what a liquid transient response sounds like, but the harpsichord sounds effortless and natural, the attack and decay so utterly _real_. Each melodic voice is clearly delineated among the others.

HD800, by comparison, blurs notes together very slightly (variation 10, fughetta, is a good example—especially on trills and with denser passages). The tone is mellower, and there is less air amid the notes. The soundstage is more intimate; you feel as though you’re in a chamber with carpeting to dampen some of the treble. K1000 had a weightless spaciousness (that most certainly did NOT comport with the very real fatigue my temples felt after extended listening), though—thinking about the “HD800 has an artificially large soundstage!” complaint—makes me laugh at how tame HD800’s alleged hugeness is by comparison. K1000 has this way of pulling you out of the room in which the recording was made and letting you soar as though a boundless space with your music as though you were in Kubrick’s _2001. _I should emphasize that these differences tend to disappear after the first minutes of listening. In any event, after busting out my HD600, I confirmed that, yes, it was the most easy to listen to of the three. On harpsichord, I would probably call it a draw, with a note that the LCD series might be worth looking into because of all the treble.

*Rachmaninoff Preludes op. 23 and 32 (Sviatoslav Richter, live in Kiev, 1960)*. I include these because they’re in mediocre mono sound with audible hiss throughout. The sharp, sibilant sound is the fault of the technology and recording technicians. One of the problems with audiophilia is that it’s made me intolerant of bad recordings. In fact, I created a new EQ just for this piece, with an even more aggressive slant toward lower frequencies, “K1000 v.2”:



 K1000 rendered the playing with all its characteristic space; HD800 was more closed-in and intimate. Both were ruthlessly unforgiving and I’m not sure I have a definitive answer. Even HD600 was not altogether pleasant, though with these older recordings, I find you need to stay within their universe for a few days for your brain to recalibrate to poor audio quality. Again I might counsel someone to seek out an LCD-X, but between K1000 and HD800 I would give the edge to K1000 on account of a more natural tone and a soundstage from which details are more effortlessly picked out.

*Closing*:
In the same way that going on a bicycle ride after months of avoiding the bicycle gives one an unmistakable soreness in the groin, my temples are becoming sore after half a week of nonstop K1000 listening. I hope they become stronger in the weeks ahead.

On the whole, Mjolnir 2 powered K1000 to appreciably greater transparency in piano and keyboard music, though with caveats for harpsichord and old/bad recordings.


----------



## thecrow

Fyi. I noticed this morning in australia that it appears the hdva600 is being cleared out at $999 AUD at noisy motel and addicted to audio


----------



## Hansotek

icebear said:


> The numbers taken by themselves make sense and 0.008 Ohm is indeed 2x more than 0.004 Ohm but we don't listen to the cable itself,
> ... we listen to a headphone
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, hopefully you're listening to music and not the headphone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 With respect, I would be remiss not to point out that your attempt to calculate the effect of impedance in the example above is incorrect. That is simply not how it works. If you want to get totally technical about it, the formula for insertion loss is 20*log [RLoad/(RLoad + RCable)], which will express (in decibels) the loss of load power due to resistance relative to a given frequency, which (as you pointed out) is a variable in a coiled dynamic driver. Regardless, it's more complicated than you've pointed out, in both objective mathematics and subjective sonics.
  
 The concept of coloration you mentioned above is a funny one, because technically _any cable _is going to color the sound simply by virtue of the amount of signal loss it contributes. The perfect cable would be no cable at all - a direct connection to the amplifier. Any cabling in between is going to deliver a fraction of the signal to the driver, hence why the measure of resistance is so important. Any number above zero is generally representative of the amount of signal loss you are suffering between the amplifier and the driver.
  
_(I'll note that this is a bit of a dumbed down explanation and said "signal loss" has a lot to do with the damping factor and its relative effects on decay and the time-frequency domain. An amplifier's job has as much to do with stopping the driver with precision as it does with actually moving it in the first place. Clearly this gets very complicated very quickly. Hopefully, I'm not boring you guys to death.)_
  
 All that being said, @icebear, Norne makes some awesome stuff. If you like what you have, mission accomplished. I'm a science nerd and I like to understand how and why everything works the way it does, but when it comes to sonics, I am a complete subjectivist. Yes, I want to understand why I like one thing better than the other, but the ears don't lie, brother. Good is good. All that matters is that you are enjoying the music with your system. The way I see it, the science should guide, not decide.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## FLTWS

@ bosiemoncrieff   
  
 Brilliant, thanks for the effort, looking forward to more installments.


----------



## icebear

hansotek said:


> Well, hopefully you're listening to music and not the headphone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Listening to music via my headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 If that formula is correct (I didn't do any research on that)
 20*log [RLoad/(RLoad + RCable)]
 R load: 600 Ohm
 R cable : 0.008
  
 Then in our example we get a loss of :
 20* log [600/600 + 0.008] = 20*log [600/600.008] = 20*log 0.99998666 = - 1.158... 10^-04 = -0.0000158....
  
 Doesn't really look as it would make a difference to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ... you ever so slightly touch the volume dial and you more than compensate for it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But hey, it's fun to play with the numbers!
  
 Cheers as well


----------



## blacknile

bosiemoncrieff said:


> *Beethoven Piano Sonatas (Emil Gilels)*. This near-complete cycle (missing only 1, 9, and 32) is extremely well engineered, dating from the 1970s and '80s. Originally, I thought solo piano would be clearly a place for HD800 to shine. The massive soundstage of K1000 is, so the thinking would go, somewhat wasted on an ensemble that requires _tone_ first and soundstage only afterwards. Listening to it on K1000 is, truly, an out-of-head experience. I continue to turn my head, thinking I will see a pianist. Wide open grills surely give the most air, but almost disorientingly so. About halfway open is about as closed as I listen, and it's perfect for this piano music. The treble is a little more to the right and the bass to the left, but K1000 envelops me well. Both the EQ settings in the prior post sound great; I go back and forth. Attack is fast, decay is supremely lifelike.
> 
> The finale to the moonlight sonata is one of the most famous and exciting movements in the piano literature—furious, passionate, sublime. I find that with the above EQ, K1000's tone is more natural than that of HD800, either with my 'HD800' EQ or flat. HD800 has a little congestion in the midrange 0:45-1:00, and frequently thereafter, and the bass seems to lack transparency. The treble is fine, though sharp; the bass, even when fuller, is not as tight as K1000, and doesn't seem as well integrated into the whole frequency spectrum. Their detail retrieval is more or less equal, but I think David had it right when he said HD800 is a very transparent _window_ into the music. Now, he also claimed that K1000 ‘lacked naturalness’ and was ‘not transparent,’ assessments with which I could not disagree more. I hear no barrier whatsoever between me and Gilels.
> 
> The 2nd movement of Pathetique is likewise quite famous (and together with the slow movement from Moonlight, the only Beethoven I can play). The lightness of his touch is ably conveyed on K1000. The subtle shades are exquisitely rendered. The differences here are minute: smaller soundstage, more noise, hints of the Sennheiser veil and lack of naturalness at times with HD800.


 
  
 Interesting personal opinion, thanks. I do not own the K1000 however I own a late SN HD800 (40K+) and about 20 recordings of Beethoven's piano sonatas, including the DG Gilels box set the reviewer above has selected. I, too, am intimately familiar with the sound of a pianoforte as two members of my family are classically trained pianists working on Fazioli and Bösendorfer.
  
 I disagree with the impressions presented above because I would argue the reviewer is conflating characteristics of the source material with characteristics of the headphones. DG, while having recorded some of the greatest musicians in history, has never been famous for superlative sound quality. The above collection (notwithstanding Gilels' absolute mastery of the material) is not known for offering a good reproduction of the piano instrument. The piano output of DG has indeed been quite varied in terms of sound quality. While there are very good sounding recordings, there are also some complete lemons (Pollini's Schubert sonata recordings, while absolute masterpieces musically, are extremely poorly recorded).
  
 I would argue that the Giles collection above does not represent good source material to judge what the HD800 are capable of. To test what these headphones are really capable of using readily available classical piano recordings, I would recommend Backhaus' set on Decca, or even better Gulda again on Decca (Gulda Spielt Beethoven, 12CDs). Whilst I cannot exclude the reviewer above will still prefer the AKG model to the HD800, I would suggest that in no way my copy of the HD800 lack naturalness when reproducing well recorded piano.


----------



## Peti

Post of the week as far as I'm concerned! Hansotek for President!

I just bou and balanced cable for my hd800, so the timing is perfect, too.


----------



## thefitz

Have we read this?
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-cable-measurements-part-one-page-2
  
 Has anyone explained this away, beyond "well, the differences aren't measurable"?
  
 This cable discussion sounds like saying "0.00008% tax is one third as much tax as 0.00024% tax on a $300 item" with regards to resistance.


----------



## Hansotek

thefitz said:


> Have we read this?
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-cable-measurements-part-one-page-2
> 
> ...


 
  
 I feel like this video offers a pretty good explanation and actually shows a controlled test that allows you to clearly see the differences between two cables with different damping factors.
  
  

  
 (I apologize if this video starts in a random place. I don't know how to get it to start at a specific timecode when you link it. But it's worth watching.)
  
 I've met this dude at shows and his A/B tests are extremely compelling. I'm actually reviewing his line of headphone cables right now for Enjoy the Music, hence why I had so much research on the ready yesterday about cables. I'm trying to figure out the same questions you guys are!


----------



## thefitz

I've come to this hobby directly from being really into playing music, and it's funny how many principles carry over. Cables were a big thing, and it was common knowledge that cables (or anything passive) can only attenuate. They cannot add. Cables only really start impacting your sound as they become exceedingly long (30+ feet!), unless they're deliberately attenuated to give a certain sound (i.e. "bass cables" that simply mute the hell out of the top end). Don't forget, guitars' sound is powered by magnetism, or _perhaps _a 9-18V battery.
  
 Then, there was this: https://consumerist.com/2008/03/03/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables/ (and we're talking in reference to 4 and 8 ohm loads, not 300 freaking ohms!)
  
 Finally, there's the conceptual nightmare that is the fact that companies knowingly put out "flagships" that are being held back considerably by cables. If you're putting out audiophile stuff and every stock cable every made sucks, why bother selling a flagship with a cable?
  
 But hey, I got in mad **** being skeptical about a freaking 3-foot USB cable _improving sound_.
  
 On topic? I've ordered a SuperDupont mod from eBay and can't wait to try it. I'm a little freaked out about pulling back the plastic screen, but every video I've seen has the end result look just fine.


----------



## MikePio

icebear said:


> Listening to music via my headphone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 By the numbers you would think the difference would be negligible but practically that is not the case (at least in my experience). The difference between both the stock cable and the all copper wire is immediate with the HD800's. We can argue and debate one way or another, by using measurements, doing calculations or purely speculating on the subjective differences we are hearing. The bottom line is, both cables sound different. I know that matching volume is very important and crucial when comparing audio equipment, but the soundstage on the copper cable is closed (intimate?) regardless of normal listening volume levels, basically the difference is evident immediately. Some amplifiers/dacs I have tested in the past (blind tests) were much more difficult to differentiate. I used to think cables were a total waste of money and never invested in them, that is until I purchased silver interconnects because my previous ones started to degrade. Now the difference might have been just volume, but at the same volume levels, the silver serpent wire was louder. That alone made me very happy, since I feel my amplifier could benefit from some marginal volume increase. Either way I hope this thread does not turn into a cable debate, I think majority of users are tired of that subject, which has repeatedly been discussed over and over again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In the end it is simple, if you buy a aftermarket cable and you can hear a difference, that is all that matters and if you don't, well your wallet will be that much happier!


----------



## fjrabon

Shootout time, LOL. 

iDAC6 vs MoMBy vs (not pictured m9XX)
ECP DSHA2 vs ECP Torpedo III

Al through HD800

Also silver balanced cable vs OFC copper single end vs stock cable.


----------



## MWSVette

fjrabon said:


> Shootout time, LOL.
> 
> iDAC6 vs MoMBy vs (not pictured m9XX)
> ECP DHSA2 vs ECP Torpedo III
> ...


 
  
 Looking forward to your impressions.  I am on the tour for the iDAC-6 and iHA-6 cannot wait to compare to my Bimby and Lyr to them.


----------



## fjrabon

mwsvette said:


> Looking forward to your impressions.  I am on the tour for the iDAC-6 and iHA-6 cannot wait to compare to my Bimby and Lyr to them.




Nice. Yeah, I'm on the tour as well. Since I already have iDAC6 I'm going to let somebody borrow my iDAC6 while I have the review stack. 

This weekend will mostly be focused on the DSHA2 vs Torpedo III. The DSHA2 is really opening my ears with some crazy resolution and transient detail. The iDAC6 is a more than worthy DAC, especially if you like to tailor the vibe of your system in terms of harmonics and dynamic response.


----------



## Yeswecan

Got mine today (HD-800, not S-model). Other headphones here at the moment Beyerdynamic T1, Hifiman HE-400i. Sold LCD-2, HD-650, K-702 etc. (Never went to HE-560, Edition-X though was going to. )
 I'm playing through Corda Symphony2 and vintage Luxman L-510 headphone output as well. Sounds great already right out of the box.


----------



## MWSVette

yeswecan said:


> Got mine today (HD-800, not S-model). Other headphones here at the moment Beyerdynamic T1, Hifiman HE-400i. Sold LCD-2, HD-650, K-702 etc. (Never went to HE-560, Edition-X though was going to. )
> I'm playing through Corda Symphony2 and vintage Luxman L-510 headphone output as well. Sounds great already right out of the box.


 
  
  
 Welcome to the club...


----------



## kelly200269

yeswecan said:


> Got mine today (HD-800, not S-model). Other headphones here at the moment Beyerdynamic T1, Hifiman HE-400i. Sold LCD-2, HD-650, K-702 etc. (Never went to HE-560, Edition-X though was going to. )
> I'm playing through Corda Symphony2 and vintage Luxman L-510 headphone output as well. Sounds great already right out of the box.



I'd be really interested to hear how you get on, especially compared to the T1's. I love my HD800's, but find them very analytical and was looking for something more easy-going for when I just want to 'relax' with music, rather than be in the front row! lol
The T1's are on my radar, and I'd be really grateful to hear what you think.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Yeswecan

kelly200269 said:


> I'd be really interested to hear how you get on, especially compared to the T1's. I love my HD800's, but find them very analytical and was looking for something more easy-going for when I just want to 'relax' with music, rather than be in the front row! lol
> The T1's are on my radar, and I'd be really grateful to hear what you think.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 
 Well, quite a challenge. As to T1 I think it's sonically near to HD-800, perhaps revealing micro details (like HD-800 as well) while HD-800 has maybe a slightly better overall presantation (soundstage etc.), So in a way, HD-800 could be even more "relaxing", if you like, while T1 f.ex. being as hard hitting as HD-800 could be "exiting" (not to say HD-800 were to me "boring" in any way, on the contrary).  But these are _very much_ a matter of personal taste and preference, and of course due to what other gears you use. So, do not pay attention to this too much, I hope you'll find your way. We all, at times, long for altreration, don't we.   
  
 [You'll instantly notice that English is not my first language, so sorry my poor vocabulary.]


----------



## Peti

kelly200269 said:


> I'd be really interested to hear how you get on, especially compared to the T1's. I love my HD800's, but find them very analytical and was looking for something more easy-going for when I just want to 'relax' with music, rather than be in the front row! lol
> The T1's are on my radar, and I'd be really grateful to hear what you think.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 

 The dedicated T1 thread would be your best bet I guess...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'd probably recommend HE1000. Or maybe LCD-X.


----------



## Youth

kelly200269 said:


> I'd be really interested to hear how you get on, especially compared to the T1's. I love my HD800's, but find them very analytical and was looking for something more easy-going for when I just want to 'relax' with music, rather than be in the front row! lol
> The T1's are on my radar, and I'd be really grateful to hear what you think.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 
  
 T1 is not what you want since it's treble heavy just like HD800.


----------



## Arniesb

youth said:


> T1 is not what you want since it's treble heavy just like HD800.


Both are not a problem with very analog sounding dacs as Gumby.


----------



## Youth

arniesb said:


> Both are not a problem with very analog sounding dacs as Gumby.


 
  
 That's your opinion. But he's looking for something more laid back than HD800 so I don't really think T1 is what he's looking for.


----------



## Yeswecan

I would 


arniesb said:


> Both are not a problem with very analog sounding dacs as Gumby.


 
 Agree, it's a matter of the whole set. I find HD-800 transparent and neutral in the sense that it reveals the quality both of the record and of the electronics used.


----------



## Yeswecan

youth said:


> That's your opinion. But he's looking for something more laid back than HD800 so I don't really think T1 is what he's looking for.


 
 Personally, I think good sound is always "interesting" and "touching" vs "dull". That maybe mean different things on different kind of music. When playing HD-800 e.g. through my Philips TDA1543 nos dac and vintage Luxman L-510 headphone output (just to give a modest single example), I guess, you could call the overall impression "laid back", perhaps not in the sense of LCD-3 or HD-650 but more so than on some other electronics.


----------



## kelly200269

yeswecan said:


> kelly200269 said:
> 
> 
> > I'd be really interested to hear how you get on, especially compared to the T1's. I love my HD800's, but find them very analytical and was looking for something more easy-going for when I just want to 'relax' with music, rather than be in the front row! lol
> ...



Cheers for the feedback. I really appreciate it 
Like most users here, I tend to use different sets for different music. I think the HD800 absolutely excels with classical, and I don't think it can be bettered with this genre. You really do feel like you've got a front seat at the orchestra with this one.
However, for rock, pop and jazz I tend to use the T90's. I find them musical and I like their sonic signature, but I find the mids are a little recessed for my liking, hence why I was looking at the T1's.
I suppose we're all on our own paths to musical 'Nirvana'. But damn, I hate this hobby sometimes! Or rather my bank account does...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## SearchOfSub

hansotek said:


> There are a lot of factors that might have contributed to that shrinking soundstage. A brighter cable, for one, can increase perceived soundstage size. But every cable is different. The end result will depend heavily on the design philosophy. Boiling it down to just copper vs. silver is a bit of an oversimplification. A copper cable can easily be better or worse than a silver one, based on the design.
> 
> Basically, it boils down to 3 factors: Capacitance (the cable's ability to store an electrical charge), Inductance (the ratio of voltage to the rate of change in current), and the Resistance/Conductivity (how difficult it is to pass an electrical current through the cable). Resistance is generally the value that varies most from cable to cable. This is determined by the conductivity of the metal and the shape of the wire itself.
> 
> ...






so..... can you recommend best headphone cable and headphone.


----------



## PLUSSOUND

searchofsub said:


> so..... can you recommend best headphone cable and headphone.


 

 We offer various cable builds at different pricing depending on your ideal specs.
 http://www.plussoundaudio.com/customcables/headphone.html


----------



## SearchOfSub

What material do you need to give refinement to sound. is that even possible with cables


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

plussound said:


> We offer various cable builds at different pricing depending on your ideal specs.
> http://www.plussoundaudio.com/customcables/headphone.html


 

 could you re-cable my legendary K1000?


----------



## PLUSSOUND

searchofsub said:


> What material do you need to give refinement to sound. is that even possible with cables


 

 You may consider going with shielded cable to isolate wires from outside interference, which would offer more refinement over non-shielded.


----------



## PLUSSOUND

bosiemoncrieff said:


> could you re-cable my legendary K1000?


 

 Please email us at sales@plussoundaudio.com and let us know what kind of cable you are looking for.


----------



## etc6849

I used shielded Magomi 25 gauge wire that is made in Japan, Neutrik connectors, Techflex covering and 3M heatshrink with adhesive, cable pants, etc...  Very easy to make a cable, paying $300+ is a joke unless you have never soldered and don't have the tools. 
  
 I bought everything from PartsExpress except the 2 pin HD800 connectors, but these are available all over the web for an inflated price (thanks Sennheiser).   Needless to say the $40 HD800 connectors cost more than everything else combined.  If you are rich, nothing wrong with buying a cable...  really comes down to how handy you are.  Videos on youtube show you how to solder, how to use techflex, etc...
  
 PS: cables don't do anything to the sound if properly constructed.  These sites selling $600+ cables cater to the folks who aren't scientists/engineers or just misinformed.  It does take time to make the cable, so I'd expect a professional who values their time to charge close to $200 if they use decent materials.
  
 Personally, I don't do anything unless I'm paid $50/hour minimum.  However, I do all kinds of stuff on my own to save from paying someone even $20-40/hour since that money is from my after tax income.  Expect ~3-5 hours if this is your first cable, but I always do stuff myself as long as it's economical and makes sense.
  

  


searchofsub said:


> What material do you need to give refinement to sound. is that even possible with cables


----------



## DavidA

@etc6849
  
 , agree with you that paying $300+ for headphone cables is crazy.  I've tried blind testing some Forza and Double-Helix cables that were in the $400+ range and both my GF and I couldn't tell the difference.  I would say that if you got the bucks and feel like cables gives an improvement then who am I to say otherwise.  I've built all of my current cables using either Mogami or Canare cables and most of the connectors have been either Neutrik, Double-Helix, Cardas or cheap Chinese ones.  The only issue I've had is that the HD-800 connectors from china were not the best quality but they sent me a second set since there was a problem with them not locking in place.  The last cable I built:

 Mogami covered in pink glow in the dark paracord with SMC's and a cheap 3.5mm/6.3mm combo.


----------



## etc6849

David, those look beautiful! 
  
 Yeah, that's why I purchased my 2-pin connectors fopr $44 from Moon Audio.  They were one state over from me and said they'd been selling those same connectors for years without issues.  There are cheaper options on fleabay and alibaba, but YMMV.  I'm sure Moon Audio buys them in bulk from a known Chinese supplier they met on Alibaba or wherever, but the one's they sold me snap into place nicely.  I definitely recommend going with a vendor that has an existing source for these and a proven track record; it was worth the extra $10 in my mind.  I've bought drop shipped Chinese goods off of ebay I've had to rewire before!  Although drop shipments from China have been getting to me quicker and quicker and quality keeps improving.
  
 Definitely, if someone wants eye candy or has so much money it doesn't matter they should go for whatever cable they like visually.
  
 What travel case do you guys use with these HD800's?  I would like a hard case that is smaller than the big box that came with them.
  
 Quote:


davida said:


> @etc6849
> 
> , agree with you that paying $300+ for headphone cables is crazy.  I've tried blind testing some Forza and Double-Helix cables that were in the $400+ range and both my GF and I couldn't tell the difference.  I would say that if you got the bucks and feel like cables gives an improvement then who am I to say otherwise.  I've built all of my current cables using either Mogami or Canare cables and most of the connectors have been either Neutrik, Double-Helix, Cardas or cheap Chinese ones.  The only issue I've had is that the HD-800 connectors from china were not the best quality but they sent me a second set since there was a problem with them not locking in place.  The last cable I built:
> 
> Mogami covered in pink glow in the dark paracord with SMC's and a cheap 3.5mm/6.3mm combo.


----------



## Peti

Talking about cables, I just purchased a 12 feet long stock Ultrasone Edition 12 cable reterminated in 4 pin balanced for the HD800 for 100$. I was debating to invest into a nice aftermarket cable and then I just decided to get a long balanced one for my HD800 and I am happy with my purchase! If I was better off financially, I might have bought something else, but I don't regret my purchase.


----------



## etc6849

Re-terminating is a good point.  One can just use your factory HD800 and replace the stereo phono plug with an XLR-4 connector.  A nice Neutrik XLR-4 male connector is about $5 from bh photo or parts express.  I almost did this myself, but figured someday I may want to sell my HD800 and it'd be nice to keep the original box, cord, etc...
  
 You got an awesome deal.  Time wise it is safe to say it isn't worth making a cable if you find one for $100.  You aren't missing anything sound wise.  Keep in mind the factory cable is only 32 gauge copper (really nice and flexible); I think we can agree the world class engineers at Sennheiser know what they are doing.  The difference in impedance can't be more than .1 ohms (between what you have and some silver conductor cable or whatever insane nonsense) and this is honestly negligible because it is in series (adds to) the driver's impedance which is 320 ohms or more.
  
 To compensate you could just turn the volume up ever so slightly if you want to hear what you are missing... 
  
 Quote:


peti said:


> Talking about cables, I just purchased a 12 feet long stock Ultrasone Edition 12 cable reterminated in 4 pin balanced for the HD800 for 100$. I was debating to invest into a nice aftermarket cable and then I just decided to get a long balanced one for my HD800 and I am happy with my purchase! If I was better off financially, I might have bought something else, but I don't regret my purchase.


----------



## jibzilla

I like btg audio for cables. I got my 8ft. project sunrise for both my hd800 and lcd-x for $420 during Brian's 15% off sale. A bit pricey but nowhere near $300 a piece and forget about any sq. improvement with a planar as there is no feedback. Hd800 does sound better, but nothing night and day...


----------



## siwolfman

I've seen an improvement going from the HD 800 stock cable to the HD 800 S balanced cable. Thinking about moving towards a Cardas or Double-Helix but not convinced that there'll be a huge difference, especially based on some of the impedance measurements posted by @Hansotek.


----------



## McClelland

kelly200269 said:


> I love my HD800's, but find them very analytical and was looking for something more easy-going for when I just want to 'relax' with music, rather than be in the front row! lol
> The T1's are on my radar, and I'd be really grateful to hear what you think.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 
 Subjectivity plays such a big role, as mentioned in above, but I've enjoyed shifting between the HD800 and the Audeze LCD-X for different SQ experiences.


----------



## DavidA

etc6849 said:


>


 
 I don't take any of the larger headphones out when I travel, usually a QC-15, V-Moda XS or Momentum are travel headphones for GF and me.


----------



## Hansotek

etc6849 said:


>





> You aren't missing anything sound wise.  Keep in mind the factory cable is only 32 gauge copper (really nice and flexible); I think we can agree the world class engineers at Sennheiser know what they are doing.  The difference in impedance can't be more than .1 ohms (between what you have and some silver conductor cable or whatever insane nonsense) and this is honestly negligible because it is in series (adds to) the driver's impedance which is 320 ohms or more.
> 
> To compensate you could just turn the volume up ever so slightly if you want to hear what you are missing...


 
  
Your attempt at a logical correlation between the quality of the HD800 stock cable and the quality of the engineers at Sennheiser is a false proposition. You assume quality is the only design parameter. Certainly they could design a better cable if they wanted to, but they have to consider other things like cost, construction time, supply chain availability, sourcing, etc.
  
*Secondly, the cable's resistance is not applied to the headphone's resistance, it is applied to the load from the source.* If the source is 1ohm and the cable is 0.1 ohm, you're essentially only getting 90.9% of the source signal. Drop that down to a 6ft 10AWG cable (i.e. 0.01 ohm) and you jump up to 99%.
  
Third, insertion loss is not uniform across the frequency spectrum, so you can't just "turn it up", as you say. It will affect all different kinds of variables from FR, to soundstage, to imaging clarity, bass impact and more. It's not insane nonsense, it's basic math and science.


----------



## bearFNF

etc6849 said:


>


 

 Hippo case large (its on amazon now), Audeze case, or pelican 1400. Search the thread for "case" or "pelican"
 or this one: http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/DISTRIBUTED-BY-MCM-22-24150-/22-24150


----------



## jibzilla

mcclelland said:


> Subjectivity plays such a big role, as mentioned in above, but I've enjoyed shifting between the HD800 and the Audeze LCD-X for different SQ experiences.


 
  
 Yes.


----------



## etc6849

If one measures resistance from L+ to ground OR R+ to ground with the cable on headphones your ohm meter will show the series resistance value of the headphone driver + cable.  That is what I was getting at.  The amp sees this total resistance.
  
 Keep in mind, I said resistance (R) NOT impedance (Z).  They really aren't the same thing, Z= R+jX.  The reactance is really very negligible compared to resistance for a given headphone cable.  We are dealing with a GHz signal over coax, etc...  Also remember the driver is really going to have it's reactance change as it moves, and this change is way more dominant than the reactance of the cable.
   You can model things however you want adding .1 ohms to the output impedance of the headphone amp, but by not including the driver impedance in your model you lose credibility and your assertion is factually flawed.
  
 The amp sees the cable and headphones since they are connected to it (this is obvious).  The headphone amp should be modeled as a voltage source.  It typically does have a 120 ohm resistor on it's output for highgain loads (like the HD800).  This is really a simple circuit as pictured below.  Yes you lose some voltage across Rcable (resistance of the cable) so Rhp (resistance of one of the headphone drivers) does not see the full source voltage Vs, but sees Vheadphone instead.
  
BUT this voltage change is very small as Rcable<<Rheadphone.  *In other words it is simply a voltage divider:  Vhp = Vs*(Rhp/(Rhp+Rc))* which is almost Vs since Rcable is so small.  Replace R with Z if you want, still a voltage divider and definitely the only impedance we are worried about are that of the cable and driver.
   
    
 PS: your source impedance (e.g. output impedance of the headphone amp) is off, although I would approach this circuit as shown above.  The IEC standard is 120 ohms, and we are talking about a high impedance headphone (HD800), so 120 ohms makes sense here not 1 ohm.
  
 DISCLAIMER:  I know someone will critique my post again, and yes I am assuming Vs is an ideal source.  This is perfectly ok to do here since changing headphone cables is NOT going to greatly impact the total impedance (headphone plus cable) that the headphone amp is seeing (e.g. 320.05 ohms versus 320.1 ohms, pretty sure Vs can keep up with that).
  
 Quote:


hansotek said:


> Your attempt at a logical correlation between the quality of the HD800 stock cable and the quality of the engineers at Sennheiser is a false proposition. You assume quality is the only design parameter. Certainly they could design a better cable if they wanted to, but they have to consider other things like cost, construction time, supply chain availability, sourcing, etc.
> 
> *Secondly, the cable's resistance is not applied to the headphone's resistance, it is applied to the load from the source.* If the source is 1ohm and the cable is 0.1 ohm, you're essentially only getting 90.9% of the source signal. Drop that down to a 6ft 10AWG cable (i.e. 0.01 ohm) and you jump up to 99%.
> 
> Third, insertion loss is not uniform across the frequency spectrum, so you can't just "turn it up", as you say. It will affect all different kinds of variables from FR, to soundstage, to imaging clarity, bass impact and more. It's not insane nonsense, it's basic math and science.


----------



## Hansotek

It's not my model. Though, it would be fair to say I oversimplified things a bit. I think we can both agree that cables are, on the whole, too dang expensive. I have heard at least a dozen different HD800 cables, some of which made a very noticeable difference, others of which made none at all. I find it frustrating that any discussion about cables that might actually help somebody _not get ripped off_ is shouted down with reductive arguments. It's a long running pattern on any audio-related site.
  
 Sorry if I gave offense, I certainly could have been more polite in my initial response. No excuse.


----------



## SearchOfSub

hansotek said:


> It's not my model. Though, it would be fair to say I oversimplified things a bit. I think we can both agree that cables are, on the whole, too dang expensive. I have heard at least a dozen different HD800 cables, some of which made a very noticeable difference, others of which made none at all. I find it frustrating that any discussion about cables that might actually help somebody _not get ripped off_ is shouted down with reductive arguments. It's a long running pattern on any audio-related site.
> 
> Sorry if I gave offense, I certainly could have been more polite in my initial response. No excuse.





so..... will you ever recommend a good cable TY.


----------



## thecrow

hansotek said:


> I have heard at least a dozen different HD800 cables, some of which made a very noticeable difference, others of which made none at all. I find it frustrating that any discussion about cables that might actually help somebody _not get ripped off_ is shouted down with reductive arguments. It's a long running pattern on any audio-related site




I totally agree. Some cables ive heard may or may not have made a difference and any difference could well be placebo. 

Im currently sussing out norne cables. When trying outvthe silvergarde s (silver cable) the difference stands out like the proverbial. After hearing cables like that i can in no way concur thay cables will never make a difference. 

Anyway that's my 2 cents. I won't get bogged down in that discussion too much.


----------



## Hansotek

searchofsub said:


> so..... will you ever recommend a good cable TY.




I'll tell you three that I know to change the sound for the better:

WyWires Red - very reasonably priced. Does what most people are looking for in that it takes the highs down a little, brings out the bass a bit, adds a bit of depth layering, and makes the HD800 sound slightly less analytical. 

Double Helix Neucleotide (which you can DIY) - I have a 8-strand neucleotide macromolecule cable with some nice Oyaide connectors. Does many of the same things as the WyWires Red, but does them all better (though, I think the WyWires cable calms the treble a touch more). The big things with this cable are depth and emotion though. I have shed more than a few tears listening to the HD800 through this cable. Very expressive. Depth is also pretty incredible. Sound images float freely in a 3D space between near and far. They never feel shoved into a blob of close, near or far. The stock cable feels infuriatingly analytical and boring, in comparison.

DanaCable Lazuli - It's expensive, but the change is not subtle. Much more bass, much smoother treble, much more forward and musical mids. The sound is incredibly full and much easier on the ears, even compared to the good cables. Sounds the most like a real, live performance. I feel like detail with the Lazuli starts to push into SR-009 territory. It almost makes the HD800 a different (and superior) headphone, IMO. It's the real deal for sure. Not certain why I still find the DHC cable a bit more emotionally expressive. In many ways I like them equally.


----------



## etc6849

No apologies needed.  I was definitely sarcastic in my reply to your post, so I went and removed the sarcasms and left only what I would consider engineering facts (e.g. stuff that any engineering textbook will show).  You are certainly welcome to your opinion on what you hear and are free to make your own choices without any judgement.
  
 Quote:


hansotek said:


> It's not my model. Though, it would be fair to say I oversimplified things a bit. I think we can both agree that cables are, on the whole, too dang expensive. I have heard at least a dozen different HD800 cables, some of which made a very noticeable difference, others of which made none at all. I find it frustrating that any discussion about cables that might actually help somebody _not get ripped off_ is shouted down with reductive arguments. It's a long running pattern on any audio-related site.
> 
> Sorry if I gave offense, I certainly could have been more polite in my initial response. No excuse.


----------



## jhljhl

SA Endorphin cables for hd800 are really nice.


----------



## Peti

Many will swear on the Norne Draug 2 with the HD800C but I have never heard them.


----------



## Hansotek

peti said:


> Many will swear on the Norne Draug 2 with the HD800C but I have never heard them.




Not that I need a 4th HD800 cable, but if I could get the Draug 2 cheaply I'd consider it, just so I can see for myself and weigh in on it.


----------



## YoengJyh

is there any trade-in program from HD800 to HD800s + additional cash?


----------



## SearchOfSub

hansotek said:


> I'll tell you three that I know to change the sound for the better:
> 
> WyWires Red - very reasonably priced. Does what most people are looking for in that it takes the highs down a little, brings out the bass a bit, adds a bit of depth layering, and makes the HD800 sound slightly less analytical.
> 
> ...





Can someone tell me how cables can make such big differnce like Danacable lazuli. I am speaking from experience from Moon Audio silver dragon v3 on Audioquest Nighthawks. Cable took NH to another level. Cables don't have drivers so I guess lots of info gets lost with cables?

I realize cables usually have diminishing returns. But lazuli is worth the investment? TY.


----------



## thecrow

hansotek said:


> Not that I need a 4th HD800 cable, but if I could get the Draug 2 cheaply I'd consider it, just so I can see for myself and weigh in on it.



Relatively speaking the draug2 is not that expensive. 

But be patient as it can take 4-8 weeks (plus) sometimes to be made. Don't expect it quickly. 

Trevor at norne was planning to stop them as he is soon bringing out new cables. (I beleive)

And there is a 30 day money back guarantee as well


----------



## Hansotek

searchofsub said:


> Can someone tell me how cables can make such big differnce like Danacable lazuli. I am speaking from experience from Moon Audio silver dragon v3 on Audioquest Nighthawks. Cable took NH to another level. Cables don't have drivers so I guess lots of info gets lost with cables?
> 
> I realize cables usually have diminishing returns. But lazuli is worth the investment? TY.




It has a lot to do with damping factor - the driver's ability to stop accurately. What makes an adequate damping factor is somewhat controversial. If you watched the video I posted a couple of days ago, Dana Robbins says you start to see more significant results with a damping factor over 90.

Lol, I don't know if "diminishing returns" is necessarily the right phrase for the cable conundrum, since there are people trying to rip you off at pretty much any and every price point.

In regard to your last question, it's hard to answer. Here's how I look at the DanaCables: the question isn't whether or not you will hear the difference. You will. The question is: is that difference worth the investment to you?

It's a tough call, because they are quite pricey. I can't make that decision for you. It is best to try and then decide, if possible.


----------



## FLTWS

hansotek said:


> ...
> In regard to your last question, it's hard to answer. Here's how I look at the DanaCables: the question isn't whether or not you will hear the difference. You will. The question is: is that difference worth the investment to you?
> 
> It's a tough call, because they are quite pricey. I can't make that decision for you. It is best to try and then decide, if possible.


 
 Differences in the sound are why we're all here, right? Sometimes there are, sometimes there aren't. If there were no differences at all with any of this stuff there would be no reason for this hobby / forum / industry to exist. We'd all be listening to (___________).
  
 My experience with cable swapping; I generally hear a difference. When I don't hear a difference I don't infer "they all sound the same", I figure that the two I'm comparing just have very similar sound signatures but may have got there with different materials and construction techniques. I find it's often the same with the electronics but there are always exceptions and often too close for me to call. It's the quality of the recording source and the transducer where things get different big time.
  
 I have both DHL's totl and Black Dragon sets I can run balanced from my cd transport all the way to the headphones. The differences aren't a game changer but they aren't hard for me to distinguish either in the bass or mid-range between the two. But depending on which headphones I'm listening to there is no clear best overall, which further complicates matters.
  
 I keep thinking about the DanaCable video demo and wondering if there are any flaws in the scientific method there, but I'm not that smart! LOL!
  
 I think the fact that they offer a 30 day return policy speaks to their confidence that differences can be heard. Is it an improvement or just a difference with my gear? I'll figure that out after I settle on 2 more hi-ish end phones to add to my system and see if the differences justify the cost of the cable.
  
 Hansotek, out of curiosity, are you running DanaCables just from the HP amp to the phones or throughout the chain?


----------



## thefitz

Simply re-positioning the headphone on your head will make it "sound different" (funny how people seldom say "better"). Tyll mentioned that in the article where he tested a half dozen cables that measured identically. A shame he didn't pick stuff that's a little fancier so we can see the measurable differences.


----------



## Hansotek

fltws said:


> Hansotek, out of curiosity, are you running DanaCables just from the HP amp to the phones or throughout the chain?


 
  
 I have the Onyx RCA, as well. I was trying to get rid of the last little bit of harshness in my system, and I determined the RCA was likely the weakest link. I had tried the DanaCable stuff at Axpona, and I approximated that was roughly the difference I was looking for. I also read Colin Flood's awesome review, where he noted that it performed on par with the far more expensive Clarus Aqua, so I felt pretty confident in what I was getting. I loved it, and I ended up buying a balanced cable for the HD800 a couple of weeks later when my Double Helix cable broke (it has since been fixed, so now I have two awesome cables.).
  
 The rest of my cables are mostly a combo of DIY stuff and a few things from WireWorld. I just posted the whole chain in detail yesterday on the Focal thread, right here.


----------



## fjrabon

thefitz said:


> Simply re-positioning the headphone on your head will make it "sound different" (funny how people seldom say "better"). Tyll mentioned that in the article where he tested a half dozen cables that measured identically. A shame he didn't pick stuff that's a little fancier so we can see the measurable differences.



A big issue is that when people look at performance "objectively" on here they really only look at frequency response plots. In my experience cables very rarely change the frequency response (though they can change the perceived frequency response for reasons ill mention in a second). What cables do sometimes impact are: dynamicism, THD breakdown, crosstalk, and phase issues. 

Dynamicism comes from the impedance issue Hansotek brings up. If a cable adds significant impedance, it can slow the headphone's ability to quickly rebound and accurately produce the next transient. This also inhibits the headphone's ability to be moved by the first milliwatt, which is where the micro-detail lies. This is the big flaw of the HD650 stock cable, ie the "Sennheiser veil". 

THD breakdown is due to some cables essentially highlighting various harmonic distortions the headphone and/or amp has. This is how headphone cables are perceived as being bright or warm despite almost always measuring as flat against frequency response. If a cable accentuates the high order harmonic distortion, it's going to make the headphone be perceived as "harsh", "piercing" and/or "etched". This is the big flaw of the HD800 stock cable. 

Crosstalk issues can arise in some particularly cheap cables, as the L/R wires aren't isolated well enough and some of each channel leaks in to the opposite side, thereby collapsing the soundstage's width. 

Phase issues can arise when for some reason one side of the cable is different than the other. This has proven to sometimes be an issue for single side entry cables where the run to one cup is longer than the run to the other. The differences in length and impedance between the two sides can thereby get off and throw the signals out of phase, which destroys imaging accuracy and resolution. 

This is obviously very simplified, but I hope it points out the flaw of "well, it didn't change the frequency response plot, so it must be a placebo and/or snake oil!"


----------



## thefitz

fjrabon said:


> A big issue is that when people look at performance "objectively" on here they really only look at frequency response plots. In my experience cables very rarely change the frequency response (though they can change the perceived frequency response for reasons ill mention in a second). What cables do sometimes impact are: dynamicism, THD breakdown, crosstalk, and phase issues.
> 
> Dynamicism comes from the impedance issue Hansotek brings up. If a cable adds significant impedance, it can slow the headphone's ability to quickly rebound and accurately produce the next transient. This also inhibits the headphone's ability to be moved by the first milliwatt, which is where the micro-detail lies. This is the big flaw of the HD650 stock cable, ie the "Sennheiser veil".
> 
> ...


 

 Surely every.single.one.of.those.things.are.measurable.
  
 If those are the things that really make a difference, and I'm not saying they're not, why aren't these graphs all over the place?
  
 And maybe I missed it, but the "dynamicism" claim that the cable impedance impedes the input source not the headphone source, 1 ohm (was it full ohms?) was given as an example. Someone else said "well, 120 ohms (?) is a more accurate figure". Which is the accurate scale?
  
 Interestingly, "dynamicism" is not impulse response, which is dead even, seen here:
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-cable-measurements-part-one-page-2
  
 And finally, on the HD800, THD is slightly over 0.1% from 200Hz and above, never getting worse than maybe 0.75%. Does anybody know what distortion audibility thresholds are? Also, don't cables mess up the top end more, where the least distortion is? I mean, fine - if a cable can get that 0.75% THD below 200Hz down to 0.1%, we may be onto something. Unfortunately, long cables transmit long-ass sine waves better than small ones. If anything, a cable would lower the 0.1% THD, no?
  
 Double edit: would it be possible for a $40 3' cable to measure the above "well, it didn't change the frequency response plot, so it must be a placebo and/or snake oil!" figures better than a $400 12' cable?


----------



## fjrabon

thefitz said:


> Surely every.single.one.of.those.things.are.measurable.
> 
> If those are the things that really make a difference, and I'm not saying they're not, why aren't these graphs all over the place?
> 
> ...




Sure, all those things are theoretically measurable. The problem is that 1) for some, good measurement systems for them are outrageously expensive. 2) most head-fiers don't understand the measurements even when they're available 3) it isn't always clear what "better" means. 

As far as ability to perceive distortion goes, your question as asked gives away the whole problem. THD isn't frequency based in the way you're talking about it. It doesn't stick at static frequencies. The 2nd harmonic distortion is at twice the frequency of the fundamental note, and thus when the fundamental doubles, 2nd harmonic distortion frequency also doubles. 

As to what level is perceptible, higher order harmonics are much more perceptible and offensive sounding than lower order harmonics. This is where the issue you bring up with cables is exacerbating, rather than limiting, because cables tend to cause problems in the high order harmonics, which we find most grating. 0.8% THD in the 2nd harmonic isn't as bad as 0.1% in the fourth harmonic. This is something speaker aficionados and manufacturers have known for decades, but for whatever reason headphone people tend to think of all distortion as being the same. The way the THD breaks down is more important than how much is there (within normal levels at least).


----------



## icebear

fjrabon said:


> ...
> Dynamicism comes from the impedance issue Hansotek brings up. *If a cable adds significant impedance,* it can *slow the headphone's ability to quickly rebound* and accurately produce the next transient. This also inhibits the headphone's ability to be moved by the first milliwatt, which is where the micro-detail lies. This is the big flaw of the HD650 stock cable, ie the "Sennheiser veil"....


 
  
 Since this still is the HD800 thread (300-600Ohms) what is significant impedance in this context?
 Any properly constructed cable with no cold solder connections will have less than 1 Ohm to add to the cable/headphone system.
  
 And for the damping factor ... does it matter for a headphone driver membrane as much as for a 10" subwoofer speaker cone?
 And even if it matters it will be in a range of >150 anyway in case of the HD800.
  
 Btw: I stumbled over an interesting page looking for damping factor :
 http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/damptoole.htm
 http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm


----------



## zlatan

Does anybody have any experience listening to cassettes with the HD800s? Is it a case of "bad in, bad out" or does the HD800 render all the harmonics and lovely crushed bass of tape nicely?


----------



## thefitz

fjrabon said:


> Sure, all those things are theoretically measurable. The problem is that 1) for some, good measurement systems for them are outrageously expensive. 2) most head-fiers don't understand the measurements even when they're available 3) it isn't always clear what "better" means.
> 
> As far as ability to perceive distortion goes, your question as asked gives away the whole problem. THD isn't frequency based in the way you're talking about it. It doesn't stick at static frequencies. The 2nd harmonic distortion is at twice the frequency of the fundamental note, and thus when the fundamental doubles, 2nd harmonic distortion frequency also doubles.
> 
> As to what level is perceptible, higher order harmonics are much more perceptible and offensive sounding than lower order harmonics. This is where the issue you bring up with cables is exacerbating, rather than limiting, because cables tend to cause problems in the high order harmonics, which we find most grating. 0.8% THD in the 2nd harmonic isn't as bad as 0.1% in the fourth harmonic. This is something speaker aficionados and manufacturers have known for decades, but for whatever reason headphone people tend to think of all distortion as being the same. The way the THD breaks down is more important than how much is there (within normal levels at least).


 

 True, odd and even order harmonic distortion does complicate things, especially if you introduce a headphone amp into the equation. Let alone tubes.
  
 An an earlier post, I inferred you read that the impedance of a cable robs microdetail and flat-out is the cause of the "Sennheiser Veil". How come we keep glossing over that impedance clarification I pointed out? Isn't impedance very easy to measure?


----------



## thefitz

etc6849 said:


> PS: your source impedance (e.g. output impedance of the headphone amp) is off, although I would approach this circuit as shown above.  The IEC standard is 120 ohms, and we are talking about a high impedance headphone (HD800), so 120 ohms makes sense here not 1 ohm.


 
 This bit.
  
 Everyone's been saying "cable impedance is irrelevant to driver impedance!". That was responded to with "it's about source impedance relative to cable impedance, not driver impedance relative to cable impedance!". That was responded to with "Your source impedance example was way off, it's still negligible."
  
 Now we're back to driver impedance. Is it because the source impedance line of thinking's dead in the water?


----------



## fjrabon

thefitz said:


> True, odd and even order harmonic distortion does complicate things, especially if you introduce a headphone amp into the equation. Let alone tubes.
> 
> An an earlier post, I inferred you read that the impedance of a cable robs microdetail and flat-out is the cause of the "Sennheiser Veil". How come we keep glossing over that impedance clarification I pointed out? Isn't impedance very easy to measure?


 

 I've seen where the HD600 stock cable was measured and suggests this impact, but I don't recall the particular details enough to discuss them here.  I also never believed in cables until the HD650 cable.  It's obviously subjective, but to me the difference there was pretty obvious.  The flip side is that with my HE400i, I've tried maybe 6 cables and never heard even the slightest difference.  I think it's also amp dependent as well.  Cables don't seem to make as big of a difference when the amp is high output impedance, but on a 0 output impedance amp I tend to notice the differences in cables more.


----------



## fjrabon

thefitz said:


> This bit.
> 
> Everyone's been saying "cable impedance is irrelevant to driver impedance!". That was responded to with "it's about source impedance relative to cable impedance, not driver impedance relative to cable impedance!". That was responded to with "Your source impedance example was way off, it's still negligible."
> 
> Now we're back to driver impedance. Is it because the source impedance line of thinking's dead in the water?


 

 120 ohms for amp output impedance doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.  1) Sennheiser engineers have stated that they designed the HD800 (and HD600/HD650) for amps with low output impedance.  Now, some people like the way it sounds with a high output impedance amp, but that doesn't change the fact that it simply wasn't designed with the IEC standard in mind.  In fact the IEC standard is wildly outdated and wasn't even really correct in the first place.  2) If we need more evidence that 120 ohms output impedance for the amp isn't correct, the HDVD800 is 16 ohms.  3) the new trend in amplifiers has been towards 0 output impedance amps.  Most of Schiit's new stuff is designed to run at sub 4 ohms, Grace designs their amps to run at under .1 ohms, etc.  
  
 We should probably look at a rough average for what HD800 users are using, which would probably be around 10 ohms.  
  
 This is further complicated by the fact that some amp topologies don't even really work this way.  OTC amps, for example, don't really work the same way in terms of damping factor as OTL and and regular solid state and hybrid amps do.


----------



## thefitz

fjrabon said:


> I've seen where the HD600 stock cable was measured and suggests this impact, but I don't recall the particular details enough to discuss them here.  I also never believed in cables until the HD650 cable.  It's obviously subjective, but to me the difference there was pretty obvious.  The flip side is that with my HE400i, I've tried maybe 6 cables and never heard even the slightest difference.  I think it's also amp dependent as well.  Cables don't seem to make as big of a difference when the amp is high output impedance, but on a 0 output impedance amp I tend to notice the differences in cables more.


 

 What's interesting is the article I linked precisely uses the HD650 cable as an example, and the only major variance was one channel of one of the two stock cables. The other stock cable essentially matched the others.
  
 Would it be safe to assume that the larger the source impedance, the less relevant a cable is?


----------



## FLTWS

zlatan said:


> Does anybody have any experience listening to cassettes with the HD800s? Is it a case of "bad in, bad out" or does the HD800 render all the harmonics and lovely crushed bass of tape nicely?


 

     Cassettes!!! Well, I can't answer that for you, but what I can say is I had a thorough week with the 800 (not the "S" version) in my home on my gear. I'm red book only, I knew I had a lot of good performances with problematic recordings from a technical standpoint. After a week with the 800 I realize the problem is worse than I thought and with a lot more recordings than I realized, even those recordings made in the last 20 years.
  
 On the plus side for you, the F/R on a cassette may not excite the 800 bright spot so could be a match made in heaven. Not sure what will occur in the bass region. Do you have tone controls?
  
 The 800 tells me more than I may want to know, but it is still on my short list with just 3 more candidates to audition.


----------



## fjrabon

thefitz said:


> What's interesting is the article I linked precisely uses the HD650 cable as an example, and the only major variance was one channel of one of the two stock cables. The other stock cable essentially matched the others.
> 
> Would it be safe to assume that the larger the source impedance, the less relevant a cable is?


 

 yeah, I've actually talked to Tyll about those very measurements, and like he says in the article, he's not sure if those are the measurements that would show differences in the cables if they did exist. He said he picked the HD600 cable, because, like with me, that is tha stock cable that he hears the largest (though still subtle) difference when switching cables.  Dynamicism and impulse response (as defined in Tyll's measurements) aren't exactly the same thing (though are very much intertwined).  Dynamicism has to do with how impulse response varies at different loads, rather than a single characteristic load (which is what Tyll measures).  A headphone having a similar impulse response to different frequencies at different power levels is what really characterizes a very dynamic headphone/amplifier/cable system.  
  
 Two things can impact a cable/headphone's perceived dynamicism:
  
 1) a lot of ringing in the impulse response.  The HD600 never really had this problem, to my ears, and that's borne out with Tyll's graphs.  
  
 2) different impulse responses for different power loads.  This is something that isn't currently measured by Tyll.  To me, this is what brings out micro-detail, that a DAC/amp/cable/headphone system delivers a similar impulse type response across both axes of the frequency/power 2D plot.  If a system jumps hard at a certain high power level, but is more sluggish at lower power levels, especially in very dynamic passages, micro detail is lost and/or smoothed over.  As Doug from ECP likes to often state, "micro-detail resides in the first milliwatt."  This is also where small differences in differential resistance can become much bigger deals.  Although obviously subtle, this is often the difference in the last little bit of transparency.


----------



## etc6849

http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/23295#post_12792295
  
 From an engineering analysis standpoint the way these guys keep using damping factor to make suggestions is incorrect.  I was just saying earlier if you are going to analyse this incorrectly, the amp's output impedance (more correctly named as the "source impedance" would usually be on the input side of an amplifier) they are using for the amp makes no sense given the high impedance of the HD800 as this is generally 120 ohms.
  
 If you replace source impedance with load impedance, I would totally agree with your post (I think this is what you meant).  That is what my voltage divider I proved was explaining, and this is really the only way to approach this from an electrical engineering standpoint as the headphone amp is really a voltage source.  
  
 Even a few pages back, one of these guys shows the correct voltage divider and it has only load impedance (e.g. one headphone drivers impedance) and cable impedance, this was the correct formula, so I don't know why people keep trying to use damping factor.
  
 Quote:




thefitz said:


> What's interesting is the article I linked precisely uses the HD650 cable as an example, and the only major variance was one channel of one of the two stock cables. The other stock cable essentially matched the others.
> 
> Would it be safe to assume that the larger the source impedance, the less relevant a cable is?


----------



## Hansotek

thefitz said:


> This bit.
> 
> Everyone's been saying "cable impedance is irrelevant to driver impedance!". That was responded to with "it's about source impedance relative to cable impedance, not driver impedance relative to cable impedance!". That was responded to with "Your source impedance example was way off, it's still negligible."
> 
> Now we're back to driver impedance. Is it because the source impedance line of thinking's dead in the water?




I should have been clearer. He misinterpreted what I said. By source, I meant the source of the signal relative to the cable, not the impedance of the source component attached to the amplifier. 

The input loss is the amp's output impedance divided by the amp's output impedance + cable impedance. 10cos10 x that formula converts to dB. 

I also asserted, given that the amplifier output impedance tends to be low, adding the cable impedance on top of that has a multiplicative effect that lowers the damping factor relative to the HD800.

The others argue that this is irrelevant, given the HD800 already has such high impedance. 

Without the actual ability to perform conclusive scientific tests on our own, we've decided to debate how wavy some wavy lines are.

To our credit, I think this has gone farther than about 99% of the cable debates I have read, and has been mostly civil along the way. I do respect what the other guys are bringing to the table from their side of the issue.


----------



## etc6849

Can you please post a link to a site showing this impulse difference?  Because just moving a mic 1/4" in a jig is going to change acoustic measurements.  Also as was said earlier, even adjusting headphones on ones head can have an impact on these types of measurements (since if there is air leakage it is really changing the acoustic properties of the ear/headphone chamber).
  
 Also, the noise before an impulse is indicative of distortion. This could be from the THD of the amp being used to perform the test, could be from driver distortion.  However, no way is it from cable distortion as the other two are far far far more dominant.  It is wrong to think cables add audible THD.  Yes they can add noise if they aren't shielded, but that's why a factory cable is shielded.
  
 When Sennheiser manufactures headphones, the impedance is not always exact too, but will vary.  This is why they perform measurements and match drivers for the HD800; you can see this in the factory tour posted on YouTube if you don't believe me.  Since it seems folks are worried about less than .1 ohms, I guess you all better fly to Germany and hand pick the drivers with the lowest possible impedance.
  
 Also, wrt to your other post, speed is determined by the dielectric constant of the cable not the resistance or even impedance alone.  This is only used in transmission line theory which has nothing to do with a short headphone cable passing frequences in the kHz range and lower over short distances.
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_line
  
 "In communications and electronic engineering, a *transmission line* is a specialized cable or other structure designed to carry alternating current of radio frequency, that is, currents with a frequency high enough that their wave nature must be taken into account."  
  
I promise wikipedia is right (I'm an EE), every Electromagnetic Theory text book is correct too, the rest of this time these terms don't matter at all.  Your ears are just plain not that good.  I'm not saying you don't think you hear this stuff (placebo effect, etc...), but it's not not within our range of hearing.
  
 Quote:


fjrabon said:


> Two things can impact a cable/headphone's perceived dynamicism:
> 
> 1) a lot of ringing in the impulse response.  The HD600 never really had this problem, to my ears, and that's borne out with Tyll's graphs.
> 
> 2) different impulse responses for different power loads.  This is something that isn't currently measured by Tyll.  To me, this is what brings out micro-detail, that a DAC/amp/cable/headphone system delivers a similar impulse type response across both axes of the frequency/power 2D plot.  If a system jumps hard at a certain high power level, but is more sluggish at lower power levels, especially in very dynamic passages, micro detail is lost and/or smoothed over.  As Doug from ECP likes to often state, "micro-detail resides in the first milliwatt."  This is also where small differences in differential resistance can become much bigger deals.  Although obviously subtle, this is often the difference in the last little bit of transparency.


----------



## thefitz

hansotek said:


> To our credit, I think this has gone farther than about 99% of the cable debates I have read, and has been mostly civil along the way. I do respect what the other guys are bringing to the table from their side of the issue.


 
 I'm obviously quite skeptical but this is definitely the most enlightening conversation I've had about this. We're actually defining constraints here, which is much more than the USB cable crowd does...


----------



## thefitz

etc6849 said:


> I'm not saying you don't think you hear this stuff (placebo effect, etc...), but it's not not within our range of hearing.


 
  
 Love it. The best cable in the world has the exact same signal on both ends. Anything starkly different sounding, fidelity-wise, means your signal is being killed.


----------



## etc6849

I'm not sure what your short reply means (I agree that for an ideal cable the same signal that goes in, comes out)?  My post says there will be a small negligible difference, that is why my post earlier talked about less than .1 ohms (and not zero), the issue is you aren't going to hear the difference.
  
 Being factual again...  a human's perception is easy to trick, and we are all humans.  This phenomenon is well known in psychology and to any PhD in the audio engineering field.  Watch this AES workshop video if you don't believe me (has some excellent examples):

  
  
 Quote:


thefitz said:


> Love it. The best cable in the world has the exact same signal on both ends. Anything starkly different sounding, fidelity-wise, means your signal is being killed.


----------



## thefitz

etc6849 said:


> I'm not sure what your short reply means (I agree that for an ideal cable the same signal that goes in, comes out)?  My post says there will be a small negligible difference, that is why my post earlier talked about less than .1 ohms (and not zero), the issue is you aren't going to hear the difference.


 
 I'm agreeing, and further making the suggestion that any stark difference one hears (and can perhaps measure) is a sign of a cable attenuating a signal heavily - which is often what people consider to be a poor cable.


----------



## MWSVette

hansotek said:


> ...





> To our credit, I think this has gone farther than about 99% of the cable debates I have read, and has been mostly civil along the way. I do respect what the other guys are bringing to the table from their side of the issue.


 
  
  
 Big +1.  I have seen this conversation go way south more than once...


----------



## fjrabon

> just gonna respond to a bunch of stuff from etc6849  For some reason I can't get multi-quote (or even reply) to work on his posts.


 
  
 the 120 Ohm output impedance IEC standard is just flat out wrong, even for high impedance headphones.  I've never met anybody who actually thinks it's correct.  We can look at it from a standard of 1) What users actually use: Most users use amps well short of 120 ohms output impedance 2) What the headphone is designed for: The HD800 was designed to be used with amps between 0 and 25 ohms, according to Sennheiser engineers (and again, the amp literally designed for the HD800 is 16 ohms). 3) ideal damping factor: 120 ohm output impedance would give a damping factor of 2.5, which I think almost everybody would agree is pretty poor, unless you're one of the extreme "damping factor doesn't matter under unity damping" crowd.
  
 The 120 ohm standard was likely made to accommodate for makers of receivers with headphone jacks in the 80s and 90s, which were often pretty bad.  Professional sound gear typically has output impedance around 20 ohms for headphones, most consumer gear is around 10 ohms these days.  High end gear audiophile gear (which obviously the HD800 is aimed towards) actually tends to be lower than that now, between 5 ohms and 0 ohms.  There's just no reason whatsoever to use the 120 ohm output impedance IEC standard.  
  
 I'm not sure what you are implying about "replacing source impedance with load impedance" (there's some weird quote things going on, and I can't really tell what post, and what words specifically this was in response to).  Cable impedance absolutely is a part of source impedance, not load impedance. I don't think debating that's what you meant because you obviously understand electrical circuits well enough to know that cables are added to source impedance, but I wasn't really sure what you were saying otherwise.
  
 Now, we can debate all day long about what damping factor is audible, I have never seen any test done to establish a true target dampening factor (if you have one I'd be all ears).  I've seen three primary, wildly divergent guidelines used: 1) anything short of unity is fine 2) 10:1 3) 100:1.  With a very low output impedance amplifier, a cable can impact the damping factor significantly.  Now, as at that point you're probably already at an extremely high damping factor with the HD800, it probably doesn't matter, but again there's no set standard and I see people disagree about this all the time.  
  
 With regards to "speed" I was speaking of the audiophile sense of speed, not speed of transmission.  For headphones speed of transmission is more or less irrelevant.  The audiophile term "speed", unfortunately, is a messy term that somewhat embodies impulse response, damping factor, and other factors that vary depending on who is using it.  
  
 I'm not aware of a site that measures impulse response at varying power loads and frequencies.  This is one of the shortcomings I was talking about wrt available measurements earlier.
  
 And while cables do not directly create THD, they do impact how much is sent to a headphone from the amp, if you believe that cable can differentially attenuate a signal from the amp (especially if it impacts higher frequencies more than lower frequencies, as by definition harmonic distortion is higher frequency than the fundamental source), and thus impact the balance of which harmonics are present in the signal as it arrives from the headphone.  Now if you believe that a cable equally attenuates all portions of the signal, then obviously this wouldn't matter.  I've not seen that question ever firmly settled with measurements.
  
 while a .5dB difference at 8kHz is fairly insignificant if that 8kHz is fundamental signal, if it's 4th harmonic distortion of a 2kHz fundamental at 8kHz, it can be very significant.  Our ears are much more susceptible to changes in distortion amounts relative to overall signal strength than they are changes to actual volume of the fundamental.


----------



## JamieMcC

A blind listening test between a $400 aftermarket cable and $3 worth of cat5 ethernet cable (about 5 meters worth) would be very interesting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 just saying.
  
 Personally I would rather put my cash into a high quality source and amplifier the gains from moving up the tree can be substantially once you get into quality dacs and amps with decent power supplies and amps with stepped attenuators andhigh quality signal output capacitors. An expensive aftermarket  cable would be the last thing on my list.


----------



## etc6849

Let's stop saying source (because any textbook will say output).  Again, signal source is thought of as a voltage source on the input.  I only used that terminology since Hansotek was using it.
  
 So let's all read this:  http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/amplifier/input-impedance-of-an-amplifier.html and pledge to use the same terminology (if we are to continue to discuss this topic).
  
 And use this figure (where the load in this case is the one of the headphone's drivers):

  
 Let's stop saying source. Too confusing this is the wrong side of the amp, we want the output since that's where we plug in our headphones.


 Let's use this circuit that the link above describes as the output circuit model (as an sophomore in electrical engineering can explain to you):

  
  
 Now lets replace Zout with Rout'+Rcable and do some more basic math:

  
  
 Now, please tell me how you ears are more accurate than a cheap volt meter (e.g. .9697-.9694 = .0003), in other words you lose .0003*Vout' or .03% of Vout' versus an ideal cable (which doesn't exist)?!? 
  
 NOTE:  as my original post said in the disclaimer I was treating the voltage source as ideal (e.g. Rout = 0).  This was since adding .1 ohms of load to a 320 ohm load is not likely to cause any voltage sag from the source, so for comparison the voltage source (e.g. Vout from the amp) can be treated as ideal. Here I am including Rout' instead of using an ideal voltage source (by popular demand).
  
 Now, substitute whatever you like into Rout'.  120 ohms is the standard, but I do agree headphone amps may not follow this standard and that it's also outdated.
  
 Please draw out a circuit and do the math, it doesn't lie.  Also note than an ideal cable doesn't exist, but I can make my copper conductor a lower resistance by just increasing thickness (or even paralleling two cables) so everyone can be happy for $50 instead of $500 (even though you can't hear the difference).
  
 Quote:


fjrabon said:


> Cable impedance absolutely is a part of source impedance, not load impedance. I don't think debating that's what you meant because you obviously understand electrical circuits well enough to know that cables are added to source impedance, but I wasn't really sure what you were saying otherwise.


----------



## Hansotek

jamiemcc said:


> A blind listening test between a $400 aftermarket cable and $3 worth of cat5 ethernet cable (about 5 meters worth) would be very interesting :evil: just saying.
> 
> Personally I would rather put my cash into a high quality source and amplifier the gains from moving up the tree can be substantially once you get into quality dacs and amps with decent power supplies and amps with stepped attenuators andhigh quality signal output capacitors. An expensive aftermarket  cable would be the last thing on my list.




You should definitely buy those things first. Without an adequately resolving system, it's all a moot point. You'll never hear the difference. Cables cannot add, they can only prevent further subtraction.

Once you do have a very resolving system, however there's a bit of a catch 22: when you can hear everything, you can hear everything - good and bad. This stuff becomes a lot more important.

Until then, focus on the other parts of your chain.


----------



## fjrabon

etc6849 said:


> Now, please tell me how you ears are more accurate than a cheap volt meter (e.g. .9697-.9694 = .0003), in other words you lose .0003*Vout' or .03% of Vout' versus an ideal cable (which doesn't exist)?!?
> 
> NOTE:  as my original post said in the disclaimer I was treating the voltage source as ideal (e.g. Rout = 0).  This was since adding .1 ohms of load to a 320 ohm load is not likely to cause any voltage sag from the source, so for comparison the voltage source (e.g. Vout from the amp) can be treated as ideal. Here I am including Rout' instead of using an ideal voltage source (by popular demand).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm fairly cable agnostic, the only cable I've ever really personally heard a difference is the HD650 cable.  And up until that point I 100% didn't believe cables could make audible differences.  Even then it was a $50 cable that made the difference, that I bought simply because I wanted a shorter 3.5mm cable instead of the longer 1/4" cable. BUt to me, the difference was outside the bounds of what I would think might be placebo, it's impossible to reliably blind A/B because I can feel the difference in weight, so unfortunately a "scientific" test is probably impossible.  But given that I was actually expecting no difference, I think I'd be less prone to the placebo effect/expectations bias.  If somehow tomorrow we conclusively proved there was no audible difference, then I wouldn't care in the least, other than from a purely hobby/academic standpoint.
  
 On the HD800, I haven't personally heard cables make a difference.  I have a $50 acrolink cable I bought because I, again, wanted a shorter cable with a 3.5mm termination, and a homemade silver balanced cable, because I needed a balanced cable.  It cost me $30 to make.  My point earlier was more to clarify what the claims of cable proponents are, in as honest terms as I understand them.  And clarify a few points on output impedance of the output/source/amp+cable.  I can see the theory of how cables may impact the sound and also the theories that say it shouldn't be audible, but I also haven't seen any tests done that satisfactorily resolve the issue one way or the other, and thus remain pretty agnostic on the issue.


----------



## Ancipital

jamiemcc said:


> A blind listening test between a $400 aftermarket cable and $3 worth of cat5 ethernet cable (about 5 meters worth) would be very interesting
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Some very experienced old analogue engineers of my acquaintance (who worked on world-class broadcast chains) liked to challenge snakeoil types to hear the difference between exotic unobtanium cable and that horrible bright orange mains cable that you use for electric lawnmowers, especially when used as speaker cable


----------



## etc6849

Why does everyone keep referring to it as source impedance lol? I know I helped by using it once, but we all need to stop doing that and use the accepted engineering terminology because it is causing disagreements and confusion.
  
 Keep in mind the electrical engineers are not the one's who have anything to prove, as our models are well known, scientifically proven (or your stuff wouldn't work) and developed by some of the most brilliant minds in the last 200 years.
  
 The burden of proof is on the manufacturers.  It is their product, if it is really better, they can have an indepentent lab do testing.  Heck they could even do some testing themselves and post proof on youtube.  Don't you think we would have IEEE and AES papers showing they are right.  There is a reason when you read the cable sites there is so much marketing speak and very little facts and usually make outlandish claims.
  
 If someone wants to waste their money I don't care.  But would anyone buy a car from an unknown company just cause the manufacturer says it's the greatest thing in the world?
  
 Quote:


fjrabon said:


> And clarify a few points on output impedance of the output/source/amp+cable.


----------



## thefitz

Are all replacement cables better than the stock cable? Would a company purposely make a cable of similar length that they know is inferior?


----------



## Ancipital

thefitz said:


> Are all replacement cables better than the stock cable? Would a company purposely make a cable of similar length that they know is inferior?


 
  
 No, all replacements aren't better. Some will probably be made by cack-handed idiots, and some from crappy materials. Sometimes both.
  
 When I wanted a replacement HD650 cable, it was because I wanted one that was a bit shorter, terminated in a different plug. However, there would be no point in paying for some woowoo cable that cost more than the headphones themselves. Thus, I ordered something satisfyingly sleek (because I'm shallow) from a popular cable maker- terminated the way I wanted, at the length that I wanted. The price was reassuringly reasonable for what is a bit of a luxury item.
  
 I could have made my own, but I've seen how sloppy my soldering can be.


----------



## johnjen

My 2¢ on cables.
  
 As I see and understand this, the cables 'job' is to deliver the signal, unmolested, from the output of the upstream device to the load.
 But wait there's more.
  
 The dynamic nature of the load will 'stress' the ability of the output to not just provide the signal 'intact' but also to 'control' the signal (dampening factor) to minimize the consequences of the dynamic nature of the load, in real time, as it changes.
  
 This dynamicism and its consequences both to the source of the signal as well as to its load, creates a complex interaction that by it's very nature is not static and thus will not be easily revealed by simple static measurements.
  
 This is even further exacerbated by the very nature of music itself which is the very definition of dynamic.
  
 And cables, being literally in the middle of that interaction between the source of the signal and its load, will alter that dynamic relationship.
 Some of this alteration is more readily apparent than others and much of this is subtle by its very nature.
 But not always and sometimes the differences can be surprising.
  
 Which relates to the entire system's ability to resolve inner and micro detail, which really is why we seek out *'Better'* cables in the first place.
  
 By removing what I call choke points (*CP's*) means that the signal is being altered less and less which in turn can reveal more of those inner and micro details.
 And after a certain threshold is reached it becomes easier to hear more of these subtle yet very meaningful inner and micro details.
  
 And as I mentioned above that is why we seek out *'Better'* cables, because *'Better'* is always possible, although sometimes it can remain illusive and take much effort in finding it.
  
 Cables are but one of many influences which can and do alter these dynamic relationships and interactions.
  
 JJ


----------



## Peti

My attitude towards "upgrade" cables (not only headphone cables, mind you) are ambivalent, to say the least. I have yet to hear a demonstration where I can experience the difference between stock vs. aftermarket cables. The pricing is outrageous, save for a very few vendors, and I recall reading back in the day about one major scandal: 
  

  
  
 It makes for hilarious reading, I'm telling you!
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/293165/my-cat-tore-up-my-virtual-dynamics-power-3
  
 There's way too much baloney and charlatans out there, and the honest minority gets lost in that multitude, I'm afraid. That being said, if I had the means ($), I'd invest into a Draug 2 or Stefan Audio Endorphin Cable for my HD800, simply b/c they look AWESOME to my eyes. IT would be more like a visual tuning, I reckon.


----------



## jhljhl

peti said:


> My attitude towards "upgrade" cables (not only headphone cables, mind you) are ambivalent, to say the least. I have yet to hear a demonstration where I can experience the difference between stock vs. aftermarket cables. The pricing is outrageous, save for a very few vendors, and I recall reading back in the day about one major scandal:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The endorphin cable tamed the treble for hd800c.


----------



## pctazhp

etc6849 said:


>


 
 You are being very unfair to the manufacturers. Do you really expect them to reveal the Tibetan monastery where they source the fairy dust they use while assembling their cables ????


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

As Jason says, the scotch mod is the best mod.


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> As Jason says, the scotch mod is the best mod.


 
  
 I'm partial to the Bushmills Malt 21 RARE mod.


----------



## bearFNF

I like the kickin' chickin' mod


----------



## thecrow




----------



## SearchOfSub

Ever since yesterday, I am leaning towards drier, detailed, damped sound as possible with no ringing and reverbs. Does HD800 do this? Worried about people saying it's harsh, how do you tame this besides EQ?


----------



## thecrow

Deleted


----------



## Me x3

searchofsub said:


> Ever since yesterday, I am leaning towards drier, detailed, damped sound as possible with no ringing and reverbs. Does HD800 do this? Worried about people saying it's harsh, how do you tame this besides EQ?


 

 K702 is drier than HD800


----------



## Peti

me x3 said:


> K702 is drier than HD800




Add some ranch to it! Try the cavalli brand!


----------



## beowulf

Anyone has experience with this Ebay seller "E-Infinity"?
 They seem to have a better price than most shops around here, but on such a pricey item I'm a bit uncomfortable about ebaying them.
  
 Searched the site here but didn't really find any feedback


----------



## Shetzu

Guys I plan to buy a good amplifier for the Hd 800 so that the  6Khz shrill can be controlled. I have zeroed on 2 amps which I am closely watching and reading more about. Burson Solist MKII & Heron 5.h the 2nd amp is twice the cost of the first. My budget is upto USD 750-800. Can you suggest with your views and inputs. Thanks


----------



## Ancipital

beowulf said:


> Anyone has experience with this Ebay seller "E-Infinity"?
> They seem to have a better price than most shops around here, but on such a pricey item I'm a bit uncomfortable about ebaying them.
> 
> Searched the site here but didn't really find any feedback


 
  
 Stick to authorised dealers, I'd suggest.


----------



## etc6849

Still though as my proof shows, for high impedance headphones, it just isn't going to matter. 
 The total impedance on the output side is: ZOut + Zconnections + Zcable + Zheadphone.  These are all in series and thus are all added together in the end.  Please enlighten us why you would obsess over the Zcable term and not demand Zheadphone be of the best possible hand picked value?
  
 Think what you want, but just because "Better" is possible, doesn't mean it matters to the human ear.  If "Better" results in no audible change, I would contend it really isn't better.  If you want to properly model everything and do measurement on headphone cables, I'd love to see them.  Without one single manufacturer doing this, anyone would be crazy to buy these $500-$5000 cables.  Keep in mind you'd need to completely model the circuit, not just measure the headphone cable.  Also, maybe pass a squarewave and plot the FFT of the acoustical output of the headphone driver.
  
 Now if you want to talk about 4 ohm speakers connected to an amp with .2 ohm ouptut, yes it maybe possible that a cable might make a very small audible difference due to the low impedance values present in the circuit (probably the only expensive cable that _might_ cause a small difference as power cords and interconnects are pure BS).  We are talking here though of the HD800 with a driver impedance of 320ohms.
  
 Quote:


johnjen said:


> My 2¢ on cables.
> 
> As I see and understand this, the cables 'job' is to deliver the signal, unmolested, from the output of the upstream device to the load.
> But wait there's more.
> ...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

searchofsub said:


> Ever since yesterday, I am leaning towards drier, detailed, damped sound as possible with no ringing and reverbs. Does HD800 do this? Worried about people saying it's harsh, how do you tame this besides EQ?


 

 SR-009 is a good bet. Maybe K1000 too, though that has its own collection of difficulties.


----------



## thefitz

Just installed a superdupont mod I got in eBay. Fantastic, a much more pleasing listen. Not nearly as harsh. I totally recommend it. 

And its impact is measurable. Weird, that.


----------



## JaZZ

etc6849 said:


> Still though as my proof shows, for high impedance headphones, it just isn't going to matter.
> The total impedance on the output side is: ZOut + Zconnections + Zcable + Zheadphone.  These are all in series and thus are all added together in the end.  Please enlighten us why you would obsess over the Zcable term and not demand Zheadphone be of the best possible hand picked value?
> 
> Think what you want, but just because "Better" is possible, doesn't mean it matters to the human ear.  If "Better" results in no audible change, I would contend it really isn't better.  If you want to properly model everything and do measurement on headphone cables, I'd love to see them.  Without one single manufacturer doing this, anyone would be crazy to buy these $500-$5000 cables.  Keep in mind you'd need to completely model the circuit, not just measure the headphone cable.  Also, maybe pass a squarewave and plot the FFT of the acoustical output of the headphone driver.
> ...


 
  
 You're certainly right with your view that 0.5, 1 or 4 ohms due to the cable's resistivity doesn't matter for a 450 ohm headphone like the HD 800. The fact that cables do make an audible difference with it nonetheless (in my humble experience) clearly shows that resistance and impedance of cables aren't responsible for the sonic differences. The same may apply to capacitance and inductance, although they can have an audible impact – but they don't define a cable's sonic characteristic in the first place.
  
 One word to the damping factor. Above ohm values are certainly low enough to not cause more than a marginally reduced damping factor, hence a purely academic impact on the sound. But what is the damping factor actually for? It serves for fighting an unwanted frequency-response hump at the fundamental resonant frequency of dynamic transducers due to a corresponding interaction with the there impedance hump. And what's actually the cause of the latter? Back EMF (where EMF stands for electromotive force). A voice-coil not only is moved by the current flowing through it, it also produces current by being moved. And that's exactly what's happening at the resonant frequency: The long decay after the electrical signal has already stopped causes an alternating current within the voice-coil. Which in turn is seen as an impedance rise by the amplifier. At other frequencies this effect is marginal at best, therefore not accompanied by an impedance rise. But there are exceptions, to be noticed in some impedance-response graphs, hinting at mechanical or reflective resonances of a kind and intensity affecting voice-coil movement. They even appear on planar magnetic drivers which otherwise don't have an explicit fundamental resonance reflected in the impedance response.
  
 Back to cables. I began experimenting with homegrown cables, with interesting results, for HD 600 and 650. The first time I have replaced the standard cable with an aftermarket cable was with the HD 650. The Zu Mobius enhanced transparency, clarity, detail and finally the musical enjoyment significantly – and surpassed my own designs. Later I also experimented with a Silver Dragon, which offered some more treble sparkle, somewhat at the expense of naturalness and warmth. Its third-generation version was my first choice later with the HD 800. And it made clear that it was a silver cable: more treble sparkle, more detail and clarity, with only a small, tolerable loss of organicalness. Note that my HD 800 is modified, has much less treble glare than originally, so the choice of silver shouldn't be seen as a misconfiguration. But inspired by other Head-Fiers I wanted to try a DHC «Clone» (the «Complement»'s little brother). What a disappointment! It sounded dull and lackluster, sacrificed detail. No matter how I try to compensate for it by equalizing, I haven't managed to get satisfying results. It also shows that cable characteristics are not caused by frequency-response phenomena, at least not in the first place, although they sometimes sound like it. And it shows that the cable at hand is specifically designed to remove the HD 800's treble glare – apparently at the expense of detail and transparency.
  
 I haven't stopped there – suddenly I decided that I like the stock cable better nonetheless. It took some EQ fine-tuning, though, and the change of mind was also influenced by EQ experiments due to the new configuration with the Chord Hugo as source (instead of McCormack UDP-1 and Bel Canto DAC2). The Silver Dragon was later delegated to be connected to the HiFiMan HE1000. And that was clearly the most significant cable effect of my audio career – and revealed how bad (dull, grainy, intransparent) the HE1000's original cable is.
  
 I certainly understand the reservation against cable-sound reports of people who aren't sensitive to this kind of sonic subtleties and moreover have a rather rigid scientific orientation. (In turn I'm rather insensitive to MP3 compression effects myself, at least at high bit rates, and haven't detected any effect from power cables and conditioners so far). It's indeed hard to believe how effectively immeasurable signal differences could cause audible differences. But those who are interested may read some of Rob Watts' essays on this forum (in Mojo, Hugo/TT and DAVE threads). The developer of said Chord DACs who is so kind to share all of his secret recipes with us offers a lot of insight how much more sensitive the human hearing is than what's commonly acknowledged. According to his experience during the development of DAVE humans can detect modulation noise in the range of –350 dB and equally low harmonic distortion. Once you're familiar with DAVE you'll immediately believe it, because it takes care about this new insight and sounds correspondingly exquisite, probably more transparent down to the lowest tones than any other DAC on the planet. According to Rob even solder joints have an audible impact, every single electronics component anyway (that includes cables).
  
 Many Head-Fiers certainly are familiar with the HD 800 damping mods – and how they reduce treble intensity. The mechanism behind that is clear: predominantly high frequencies are absorbed by the damping materials, whereas lower frequencies (= larger wave lengths) are barely affected, since the damping layers are too thin for them. So the actual performance of the damping is a reduction of reflected high-frequency sound waves, therefore a relative increase of the usable, direct sound waves from the membrane. Now when you look at the measuring graphs, the results are not so impressive. There's certainly something going on, but it's not entirely positive – or if, it's rather marginal. But the fact that the treble is significantly reduced and less glaring to the ears makes the mod mandatory to me. Granted, my own mod uses different materials than the Anaxilus mod (velvet instead of foam or felt or velours, which is much better in my book, just less user-friendly), but I think the relative dullness after applying the mod is a common experience. Nevertheless, the waterfall plots astonishingly don't show a shortening of decay to the expected degree. – This example is meant to show that measurability of audible effects is overrated. Some very cheap headphones and IEMs show best measuring values, but fail to sound accordingly. That said, of course I believe that audible effects have to be reflected in the measurements, but it seems that our now horizon about what there's to be measured is too narrow.
  
  


thefitz said:


> Just installed a superdupont mod I got in eBay. Fantastic, a much more pleasing listen. Not nearly as harsh. I totally recommend it.
> 
> And its impact is measurable. Weird, that.


 
  
 I absolutely believe you. But you could have achieved the same result with active equalizing, plus even more (e.g. extended low bass).


----------



## SodaBoy

shetzu said:


> Guys I plan to buy a good amplifier for the Hd 800 so that the  6Khz shrill can be controlled. I have zeroed on 2 amps which I am closely watching and reading more about. Burson Solist MKII & Heron 5.h the 2nd amp is twice the cost of the first. My budget is upto USD 750-800. Can you suggest with your views and inputs. Thanks


 
 No proper amp would correct for that 6-7k spike. Use EQ, or a DSP like Sonarworks as I have.


----------



## thefitz

Well, I don't have a rig that's precise enough with the EQ at the moment. 

But I also have my bassist hat on where I avoid EQ at all costs. It's better to find something that naturally has the sound you're looking for than forcing something to sound how you want it to.


----------



## JaZZ

thefitz said:


> Well, I don't have a rig that's precise enough with the EQ at the moment.
> 
> But I also have my bassist hat on where I avoid EQ at all costs. It's better to find something that naturally has the sound you're looking for than forcing something to sound how you want it to.


 
  
 The Superdupont mod _is_ an equalizer! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Even Sennheiser's own Helmholtz resonator in the «S» model is.


----------



## DavidA

shetzu said:


> Guys I plan to buy a good amplifier for the Hd 800 so that the  6Khz shrill can be controlled. I have zeroed on 2 amps which I am closely watching and reading more about. Burson Solist MKII & Heron 5.h the 2nd amp is twice the cost of the first. My budget is upto USD 750-800. Can you suggest with your views and inputs. Thanks


 
 While I agree with sodaboy that no proper amp will correct the sound and like thefitz I don't like EQ, I like my BH Crack with the HD-800, no EQ, no mods and it does tame the 6khz peak enough for me


----------



## thefitz

jazz said:


> The Superdupont mod is an equalizer!


A passive one, an attenuator to be specific.


----------



## JaZZ

thefitz said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > The Superdupont mod is an equalizer!
> ...


 
  
 A passive attenuator is something else and consists of voltage dividers, i.e. serial and parallel resistors. The Superdupont resonator is a passive/acoustic equalizer. It has no advantage over an active equalizer, but some side effects, which the latter doesn't have. But nothing wrong with it (if you don't like software equalizers for whatever reason).
  


davida said:


> shetzu said:
> 
> 
> > Guys I plan to buy a good amplifier for the Hd 800 so that the  6Khz shrill can be controlled. I have zeroed on 2 amps which I am closely watching and reading more about. Burson Solist MKII & Heron 5.h the 2nd amp is twice the cost of the first. My budget is upto USD 750-800. Can you suggest with your views and inputs. Thanks
> ...


 
  
 The downside of such a «compensational»/synergetic amplifier characteristic is suboptimal accuracy and transparency. The audible effect is caused solely by a specific harmonic-distortion pattern, while the frequency response itself will be virtually perfectly linear.


----------



## SearchOfSub

bosiemoncrieff said:


> SR-009 is a good bet. Maybe K1000 too, though that has its own collection of difficulties.





yikes, $3,500... too much for me. Looking at $1,000.00 - $1,500.00 range....


Anyone do any comparisons between Focal Elear and HD800?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

thefitz said:


> Just installed a superdupont mod I got in eBay. Fantastic, a much more pleasing listen. Not nearly as harsh. I totally recommend it.
> 
> And its impact is measurable. Weird, that.


 

 How far along the spectrum toward the LCD-X does it move HD800?


----------



## thefitz

bosiemoncrieff said:


> How far along the spectrum toward the LCD-X does it move HD800?


 

 I'm not sure, the LCD-X is my favourite. But it makes it much more enjoyable.


----------



## cuiter23

shetzu said:


> Guys I plan to buy a good amplifier for the Hd 800 so that the  6Khz shrill can be controlled. I have zeroed on 2 amps which I am closely watching and reading more about. Burson Solist MKII & Heron 5.h the 2nd amp is twice the cost of the first. My budget is upto USD 750-800. Can you suggest with your views and inputs. Thanks


 
  
 I have the SL Mk2. No issues with the treble for me. I think if you're sensitive to that treble you should mod it, amps will not eliminate that.


----------



## pctazhp

cuiter23 said:


> I have the SL Mk2. No issues with the treble for me. I think if you're sensitive to that treble you should mod it, amps will not eliminate that.


 
 I think you are dead on. For an amp to "tame" the spike, it would either have to have a frequency response that includes a mirror image dip compared to the spike (never going to happen) or depress all the frequency registers in the area of the spike (which is throwing the baby out with the bath water). I think someone who recommends a particular amp to tame the spike is saying more about his sensitivity (or lack thereof) to the spike than about the particular amp.


----------



## cuiter23

pctazhp said:


> I think you are dead on. For an amp to "tame" the spike, it would either have to have a frequency response that includes a mirror image dip compared to the spike (never going to happen) or depress all the frequency registers in the area of the spike (which is throwing the baby out with the bath water). I think someone who recommends a particular amp to tame the spike is saying more about his sensitivity (or lack thereof) to the spike than about the particular amp.


 
  
 Exactly, the amp will need to act like a feedback suppressor.


----------



## JaZZ

pctazhp said:


> cuiter23 said:
> 
> 
> > I have the SL Mk2. No issues with the treble for me. I think if you're sensitive to that treble you should mod it, amps will not eliminate that.
> ...


 
  


cuiter23 said:


> pctazhp said:
> 
> 
> > I think you are dead on. For an amp to "tame" the spike, it would either have to have a frequency response that includes a mirror image dip compared to the spike (never going to happen) or depress all the frequency registers in the area of the spike (which is throwing the baby out with the bath water). I think someone who recommends a particular amp to tame the spike is saying more about his sensitivity (or lack thereof) to the spike than about the particular amp.
> ...


 
  
 You're both ignoring the fact that there are warm, full, dark and cold, lean, bright sounding amps (with identical frequency responses). Pairing the HD 800 with an amp of the former category will work to some degree when it comes to compensate for the treble excess, although the 6-kHz hump effectively is still there. But that's how (euphonic) harmonic distortion can work. Of course this scenario is far from ideal for someone with a more puristic approach, since you are dependent on distortion and coloration and therefore sacrifice a lot of transparency. But apparently many people are satisfied with this solution.


----------



## thefitz

jazz said:


> You're both ignoring the fact that there are warm, full, dark and cold, lean, bright sounding amps (with identical frequency responses). Pairing the HD 800 with an amp of the former category will work to some degree when it comes to compensate for the treble excess, although the 6-kHz hump effectively is still there. But that's how (euphonic) harmonic distortion can work. Of course this scenario is far from ideal for someone with a more puristic approach, since you are dependent on distortion and coloration and therefore sacrifice a lot of transparency. But apparently many people are satisfied with this solution.


 

 Do you have some amp examples?
  
 This must be what the HE-6 cats talk about when they vaguely go on about "_quality_ watts". Getting a number of watts out of them was pulling teeth (answer: 80).
  
 EDIT: for clarity, if the FR is identical and the sound is starkly different, the main reason is due to harmonic distortion, yes?


----------



## JaZZ

thefitz said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > You're both ignoring the fact that there are warm, full, dark and cold, lean, bright sounding amps (with identical frequency responses). Pairing the HD 800 with an amp of the former category will work to some degree when it comes to compensate for the treble excess, although the 6-kHz hump effectively is still there. But that's how (euphonic) harmonic distortion can work. Of course this scenario is far from ideal for someone with a more puristic approach, since you are dependent on distortion and coloration and therefore sacrifice a lot of transparency. But apparently many people are satisfied with this solution.
> ...


 
  
 Since I have always strived for neutral amps, I never had an amp for arbitrarily coloring the sound, although of course all amps do that to some degree. Currently I'm more than happy with a quasi ampless system – Chord's DAVE driving my dynamic headphones directly by its DAC output stage. I prefer to (dis)color my headphones via software equalizer, under full preservation of the original tranparency from the source.
  
 Yes, harmonic distortion is the (main) reason for amplifier sound. Rob Watts has confimed this theory and with that he's in line with a few other audio experts. It's the only possible explanation anyway. But it shows that the «official», classic audio science heavily underrates the sensitivity of human ears.


----------



## fjrabon

It's typically 4th harmonic distortion that makes the HD800 sound really harsh, as it puts a major glare on the upper end of the vocal range when combined with the HD800's 6kHz spike. So an amp with comparatively low 4th (and also 5th) harmonic distortion will help the HD800 a lot. 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion can make the HD800 sound a bit fuller, almost like a room effect with a good set of speakers.


----------



## beowulf

Anyone has experience with the SMSL P1 > M8 > VA2 stack on the HD800/800S?
  
I think the M8 is probably a pretty good DAC (Sabre ES9018), but not so sure about the VA2 amp (250mW @ 300ohm)
  
I can get the DAC+AMP and the P1 power source (and cables) for about EUR 470 ($530) shipped.


----------



## icebear

fjrabon said:


> It's typically 4th harmonic distortion that makes the HD800 sound really harsh, as it puts a major glare on the upper end of the vocal range when combined with the HD800's 6kHz spike. So an amp with comparatively low 4th (and also 5th) harmonic distortion will help the HD800 a lot. 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion can make the HD800 sound a bit fuller, almost like a room effect with a good set of speakers.


 

 +1, a wire with gain and no distortion sounds really good driving the HD800
    ... when the source is not glaringly pushing the high frequency to suggest "high resolution".
 With good recordings the HD800 is delightful with a GSX-Mk2


----------



## Shetzu

Any one having the experience and impressions of Ray Samuels Raptor with HD 800. Please let me know. Thanks


----------



## JamieMcC

Nelson Pass has some informative articles that make for informed and interesting reading on harmonic distortion and negative feedback etc.
  
 https://passlabs.com/technology/technical-articles


----------



## Mambosenior

Try one of these (if you can find a well maintained specimen) with the HD-800 then tell me about treble spikes.

http://www.audio-extasa.eu/threshold-400a-power-amplifier-p-1337.html

(Ok, here, I'll write it first and save the nervosa brigade the trouble: "Oh Nooooo! It'll blow/fry/cook/nuke the headphone and obliterate your brain synapses!)


----------



## MWSVette

Had these painted they had gotten chipped...


----------



## Shetzu

mwsvette said:


> Had this done to my HD800's...
> 
> Can you explain what you have done.


----------



## DavidA

@MWSVette, nice paint job by PETEREK


----------



## MWSVette

davida said:


> @MWSVette, nice paint job by PETEREK



 



He does do nice work...


----------



## MWSVette

shetzu said:


>


 
  
 The original paint job had gotten chipped over the years.  I wanted to dress them up so I had them painted.  Silver changed to bright white, leaving the black matte black areas.
  
 Now they look better than new.


----------



## Shetzu

mwsvette said:


> The original paint job had gotten chipped over the years.  I wanted to dress them up so I had them painted.  Silver changed to bright white, leaving the black matte black areas.
> 
> Now they look better than new.


 
 Excellent job.


----------



## beowulf

mwsvette said:


> Had these painted they had gotten chipped...


 
  
 That looks pretty good. What type of paint and how was it applied?
  
 This reminds me that I read somewhere that the HD800S doesn't seem to have the chipping issue on the black frame, but later someone wrote that it still happens. Any user can comment?


----------



## thekorsen

Sorry to bomb the thread like this, but I need some amp advice. I'll be getting a pair of the HD800 soon that I'll probably be Superdupont modding, and I'd like to know if the vali 2 or the matrix m-stage would be a better match.


----------



## icebear

There is a thread to answer your question:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/660817/whats-the-best-amp-for-hd800


----------



## thefitz

thekorsen said:


> Sorry to bomb the thread like this, but I need some amp advice. I'll be getting a pair of the HD800 soon that I'll probably be Superdupont modding, and I'd like to know if the vali 2 or the matrix m-stage would be a better match.


 

 I use an SD800 (Superdupont HD800... let's make this a thing, k? ) with an original Lyr and original Valhalla and am having problems with the headphone's seal. My giant smile is getting in the way!
  
 In my opinion, you should really spring for an OTL tube amp if you're willing to buy an amp just for the SD800. Not just an amp with tubes, but an OTL tube amp. These types of amps often put out their most power in and around 300 ohms, which is what the HD800 is. No concern about driving the headphone, or cranking the amp - it's an optimal match.


----------



## Sorrodje

thekorsen said:


> Sorry to bomb the thread like this, but I need some amp advice. I'll be getting a pair of the HD800 soon that I'll probably be Superdupont modding, and I'd like to know if the vali 2 or the matrix m-stage would be a better match.


 
  
  
 Vali2 won't disappoint you. Never heard yet the M-stage  
  
 Trust me : Real upgrades from the Vali2 are Hi End amps . The Small Schiit will let you decide safely if the HD800 Modded or not is right up your alley and then wait to fund one of usual best amps for the Senn.


----------



## thekorsen

sorrodje said:


> Vali2 won't disappoint you. Never heard yet the M-stage
> 
> Trust me : Real upgrades from the Vali2 are Hi End amps . The Small Schiit will let you decide safely if the HD800 Modded or not is right up your alley and then wait to fund one of usual best amps for the Senn.







thefitz said:


> I use an SD800 (Superdupont HD800... let's make this a thing, k? ) with an original Lyr and original Valhalla and am having problems with the headphone's seal. My giant smile is getting in the way!
> 
> In my opinion, you should really spring for an OTL tube amp if you're willing to buy an amp just for the SD800. Not just an amp with tubes, but an OTL tube amp. These types of amps often put out their most power in and around 300 ohms, which is what the HD800 is. No concern about driving the headphone, or cranking the amp - it's an optimal match.




Hum...seems like the consensus is OTL is the way to go. I found a deal on a old (10+ years old...) OTL that used to retail at $350 and it does come with some cheap tubes. Its an option, but I'd like to hear what the m-stage can do relative to something like the vali 2 first.


----------



## MWSVette

thekorsen said:


> Hum...seems like the consensus is OTL is the way to go. I found a deal on a old (10+ years old...) OTL that used to retail at $350 and it does come with some cheap tubes. Its an option, but I'd like to hear what the m-stage can do relative to something like the vali 2 first.


 
  
  
 OTL generally work well with high impedance cans...
  
 For the price the Vali 2 is a great little amp.  Also a cheaper start for tube rolling...


----------



## Sorrodje

And the Vali2 is not an OTL amp. Input tube stage + Solid State output if I remember well.  Indeed, very cheap tube rolling options


----------



## MWSVette

sorrodje said:


> And the Vali2 is not an OTL amp. Input tube stage + Solid State output if I remember well.  Indeed, very cheap tube rolling options


 
 Exactly right, it is a hybrid.
  
 But the OP stated he may like to try the Vali 2 and with only one tube it is cheaper to roll with...


----------



## Fegefeuer

I recommend the Valhalla 2 out of personal experience. That's where the SKELETON of the HD800 finally starts to walk around like it should and support the meat. That's where the HD800 shows why it's a special kind of headphone that stood the test of time. Afterwards it gets ugly with prices.
  
 Not advising against the Vali 2, never heard it properly.


----------



## Sorrodje

Vali2 is more an easy going option. sounds clean and fun. not boring or sterile but still far for Stellar results you can get from a totl tube amp imo. Never heard the Valhalla


----------



## FLTWS

fegefeuer said:


> ... That's where the SKELETON of the HD800 finally starts to walk around like it should and support the meat. That's where the HD800 shows why it's a special kind of headphone that stood the test of time. Afterwards it gets ugly with prices...


 
 LOL, LOVE IT!


----------



## JamieMcC

thekorsen said:


> Hum...seems like the consensus is OTL is the way to go. I found a deal on a old (10+ years old...) OTL that used to retail at $350 and it does come with some cheap tubes. Its an option, but I'd like to hear what the m-stage can do relative to something like the vali 2 first.


 
  
 Have you looked at the Bottlehead Crack it is OTL and it works well with the HD800 there is also has what’s called the Speedball upgrade which is a Camille Cascode Constant Current Source upgrade which ratchets up the performance level.
  
 Bottlehead have recently changed the Cracks transformer there was originally two options when ordering either 120V or 240V but they have now changed to universal transformer which will can be configured for both voltages and have a promotion on and are selling of the last of the a 120V transformer versions off for $249 (only seven left) and you can add the Speedball for $125.
  
 There are also a lot of well documented modifications which will let you dip a toe into summit-fi territory with the Crack.
  
 Something to mull over perhaps.
  
 http://bottlehead.com/product/120v-crack-pre-pack/


----------



## thekorsen

Thanks for all the responses! I really do want to get into OTL territory with the HD800 eventually, but I wanted to find a cheap under $150 option for now as I've been spending a lot already. 

With the Vali 2, I might be willing to pay more for it since it does pair decenly with my TH-X00 and would let me sell my fiio k5. Currawong's video review also mentioned he had a preference for the vali 2 over the valhalla 2, which made me seriously consider it as an option in the first place.

I also noticed many of the inpressions of the ASL MG Head DT, the OTL I'd be able to get cheaply, in this thread came from Sorrodje. I'd be curious if he would consider it a good option over the Vali 2. The only thing that worries me about it is the age (10+ years old), and if it might break my headphones if a part fails from age.

Still very curious about the M-Stage, almost all the reviews of it say it is a great match for the HD800s on a budget.


----------



## Sorrodje

ahhhh the MG head. lovely old amp. that's a good find and allows you to use it  through OTL AND tranformer coupled mode  .  Forget about other options right now. your MG head will do the trick until you'll listen to some other options and decide what suits the best to your tastes  . Find a pair or Mullard EL84 and a good transparent 12AX7 ( siemens was my fav') .  We compared that amp to some well regarded contender ( Project Ember for example) and the Old MG head gave them a run for their money. 
  
 I hear the DT/OTL 32 as well and it sounds very good.  not up to best offers though   . i think it belongs to the Bottlehead crack league .


----------



## thekorsen

sorrodje said:


> ahhhh the MG head. lovely old amp. that's a good find and allows you to use it  through OTL AND tranformer coupled mode  .  Forget about other options right now. your MG head will do the trick until you'll listen to some other options and decide what suits the best to your tastes  . Find a pair or Mullard EL84 and a good transparent 12AX7 ( siemens was my fav') .  We compared that amp to some well regarded contender ( Project Ember for example) and the Old MG head gave them a run for their money.
> 
> I hear the DT/OTL 32 as well and it sounds very good.  not up to best offers though   . i think it belongs to the Bottlehead crack league .




Well, the model I found was the mk I or II version so it doesn't have a transformer coupled mode. Still, I hear the OTL mode was more ideal for the 800 anyway. Sounds like its a great deal, perhaps worth risking it failing on me at some point from age. I'll have to find those tubes you mentioned though! So begins the tube fever.


----------



## Sorrodje

I preferred the Transformer coupled mode .


----------



## thekorsen

sorrodje said:


> I preferred the Transformer coupled mode .




Really? I forget where I heard the OTL of the DT head was better than the coupled mode. Did you feel OTL mode was that far behind coupled when you had it?


----------



## Sorrodje

I always preferred my HD800 from Low Z outputs  ...  OTL output is very high Z on the MG Head . It affects ( colors) the sound significantly and I much prefer more transparent gear


----------



## pctazhp

I just need to throw my 2 cents in here. I run my HD800S off the FA Elise OTL and absolutely love it. One of the great advantages of an amp like the Elise is that it allows for extensive choices of tube combos from which the right combo or combos can be found that work miracles with a particular headphone.
  
 I really don't have sufficient experience with high-end headphones (like the extensive experience I have with high-end 2-channel speaker systems over the years) to speak with authority but I strongly believe that I have successfully assembled a truly world class headphone system.
  
 Edit and PS. I know I won't make any friends here by saying this, but the Elise runs circles around my Valhalla 2.


----------



## thekorsen

sorrodje said:


> I always preferred my HD800 from Low Z outputs  ...  OTL output is very high Z on the MG Head . It affects ( colors) the sound significantly and I much prefer more transparent gear


 
 Hum...guess that leaves me with the question of if a OTL only MG head would really still be a better option than the Vali 2 or M-Stage as far as the HD800 is concerned. You also have to consider that I plan on using this with Out of Your Head to emulate speaker-esque staging (if you haven't tried it out, it sounds amazing on just my TH-X00s but the HD800 is supposedly what it sounds the best on) so adding a heaping helping of tubey distortion/slower response might take away from the effect. That's why the M-stage is on my mind, supposedly it has a warm tube-ish signature to tame the highs but is a SS amp.


----------



## deserat

thekorsen said:


> Thanks for all the responses! I really do want to get into OTL territory with the HD800 eventually, but I wanted to find a cheap under $150 option for now as I've been spending a lot already.
> 
> With the Vali 2, I might be willing to pay more for it since it does pair decenly with my TH-X00 and would let me sell my fiio k5. Currawong's video review also mentioned he had a preference for the vali 2 over the valhalla 2, which made me seriously consider it as an option in the first place.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hey as a Schiit owner and Crack owner. I HIGHLY recommend skipping the Vali 2 and moving to the Crack. I've listened to the HD800 through both the Vali 2 ( Borrowed from a friend ) and the Lyr 2 extensively.  Neither of these amps have what it takes to drive the HD800 well.  Don't get me wrong. They are great amps, I use the Lyr2 with my HE560's at work all day and it drives them wonderfully. But in my experience the Vali and the Lyr leave the HD 800 sounding anemic.  They lack bass, you will get the oft talked about sibilance, and the oft talked about veil.  

 For the HD800 I use either the HDVA 600 ( very expensive ) or the Crack ( which is on sale 249 right now). While they are in totally different classes, the sound profile in terms of EQ is very similar.  I'm pretty sure if I'd have stuck with the Lyr 2 I'd have sold the HD800's - instead I bathe in their divinity. 

 Now I just gotta find somebody to loan me a Vallhalla 2 and a WA2.


----------



## audiojun

thekorsen said:


> Thanks for all the responses! I really do want to get into OTL territory with the HD800 eventually, but I wanted to find a cheap under $150 option for now as I've been spending a lot already.
> 
> With the Vali 2, I might be willing to pay more for it since it does pair decenly with my TH-X00 and would let me sell my fiio k5. Currawong's video review also mentioned he had a preference for the vali 2 over the valhalla 2, which made me seriously consider it as an option in the first place.
> 
> ...


 
 I currently own the Crackatwoa and Torpedo III and built a crack in the past.
 I'd recommend you to build a Torpedo III, you get summit-fi performance at mid-fi price. It just stumps the Crack in transients, dynamics, clarity, details, though a leaner sounding amp.
  
 Also if you are interested I can sell you my crackatwoa at the price of the kit.


----------



## Shetzu

deserat said:


> Hey as a Schiit owner and Crack owner. I HIGHLY recommend skipping the Vali 2 and moving to the Crack. I've listened to the HD800 through both the Vali 2 ( Borrowed from a friend ) and the Lyr 2 extensively.  Neither of these amps have what it takes to drive the HD800 well.  Don't get me wrong. They are great amps, I use the Lyr2 with my HE560's at work all day and it drives them wonderfully. But in my experience the Vali and the Lyr leave the HD 800 sounding anemic.  They lack bass, you will get the oft talked about sibilance, and the oft talked about veil.
> 
> For the HD800 I use either the HDVA 600 ( very expensive ) or the Crack ( which is on sale 249 right now). While they are in totally different classes, the sound profile in terms of EQ is very similar.  I'm pretty sure if I'd have stuck with the Lyr 2 I'd have sold the HD800's - instead I bathe in their divinity.
> 
> Now I just gotta find somebody to loan me a Vallhalla 2 and a WA2.


 
 I too am contemplating to get a Bottlehead Crack. Has very good positive vibes for the HD800. And wow the cost is  achievable.


----------



## Sorrodje

thekorsen said:


> Hum...guess that leaves me with the question of if a OTL only MG head would really still be a better option than the Vali 2 or M-Stage as far as the HD800 is concerned. You also have to consider that I plan on using this with Out of Your Head to emulate speaker-esque staging (if you haven't tried it out, it sounds amazing on just my TH-X00s but the HD800 is supposedly what it sounds the best on) so adding a heaping helping of tubey distortion/slower response might take away from the effect. That's why the M-stage is on my mind, supposedly it has a warm tube-ish signature to tame the highs but is a SS amp.




Honestly my choice would still go to the Vali 2. Easy to resell. Cheap tubes. Very good value.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

sorrodje said:


> Honestly my choice would still go to the Vali 2. Easy to resell. Cheap tubes. Very good value.


 

 And you can use LISST!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Sennheiser HD800 vs. AKG K1000 (bass light)
 
Third Installment - *Opera*, or, “Look, Pa, no EQ!” 

  
_Note: this is an ongoing series of posts comparing classical music as rendered by the old champ (K1000) versus the reigning champion (HD800). Opinions are strictly my own, and reflect my personal taste, biases, preferences, what I had for lunch, etc._
 
_Find the prologue here, and the solo keyboard installment here._
 
In the previous installment, I mused that older, poorer recordings require listening time devoted just to them for the brain to adjust to their worse sound. A week into K1000, I think something like that might be true of sound signatures. I’ve been experimenting without EQ, and the results are not as displeasing as they were a week ago. The soundstage, excellent transient response, and transparency will hit you immediately. The sound signature may be best eased into, with decreasingly bass-boost-treble-reduction EQ. Please forgive any repetitive or contradictory observations. These were composed over a dozen evenings across two weeks and I’m fallible.
 
Vivaldi - L’Incoronazione di Dario (Ens. Baroque de Nice / Bezzina) - Overture

Legitimately more on the fence here than any of the other operas. HD800’s closed-in nature has a sumptuousness that you don’t get with the airy K1000, but K1000 has an elegant refinement of tone that HD800 simply can’t match. Gonna call it a draw & move on.
  
Mozart - Don Giovanni - Catalogue Aria - Gardiner - Ildebrando d'Arcangelo as Leporello (& other tracks)

K1000 has the more sparkly transient response & natural tone
it’s very close
HD800 is a bit slower, but lusher as well. Definitely the better value (at ~1/2 the price) and much, much easier to listen to. There are operas that go on long after you’re ready to take K1000 off your head (but she pushes you back onto your bed and tells you to suck it up and finish).
I’m actually put in mind of my HE-6 in the sense that there is an electricity, a tactility to the experience
to my horror, I tried the Q701, and it’s definitely more than 1/10 as good as k1000, despite being approximately that price. They lack most of the soundstage, but the AKG signature is there—not as refined, but present. If you’re looking for a slightly bass-lighter alternative to HD800, Q701 is a very, very good value.
Only a true K1000 nut could listen to the finale of Don Giovanni played on period instruments and think “wow HD800, that’s a lot of bass.”   K1000’s soundstage is wider, gets further left and right, shows you a bigger picture, which when you have eg a trumpet far right is shocking and wonderfully delightful
I continue to struggle to figure out how much of K1000 is a sales pitch for treble heavy sound signatures and how much is other stuff. The clean sound you get from good treble tilt is something else. I loved my HD800, but I think my review makes clear my changing preferences. HD800 has a more powerful, impactful finale, but details are lost by comparison. Perhaps the bass-light revision fixes this.
Deh vieni alla finestra, though, almost makes me want to do an installment on classical guitar. K1000’s baritone is round and full, the guitar pert and quick, the pizzicato refined and subtle. HD800 is more intimate. the Don’s voice sounds as though it’s inches from a microphone, and the orchestra as though it’s in a recording studio. Perhaps closer to fact, if less thrilling to hear.
  
Così fan tutte - Teodor Currentzis. I’m in love with this conductor and his recent Mozart/Da Ponte trilogy. He conducts with verve, humor, sensitivity, and unbelievable passion. His casts are excellent and his orchestra clearly adores him—the harpsichordist in particular is given free reign to add improvised flourishes to the score and the result is recordings as brilliant as Böhm, Levine, and Harnoncourt, but with a youthful freshness that evades all of them.
 

HD800 seems to have a wider left-right axis, though this may be a result of the K1000’s cross-talk softening the imaging. 
Female vocals have to give their crown to K1000. The highs are so effortless, pure, seem to stretch on forever. Come scoglio was bliss, the woman could have been fifteen feet from me. I’ve been turning over in my mind the conventional wisdom that K812 puts you “onstage” and HD800 puts you “a few rows back.” K1000 is so unlike anything else that comparisons can break down into “more speaker-like in this way, that way, the other way,” but I think you could very well say that they put you closer to the musicians. The sound is, for all its cross-feed, more immediate, more gripping. I can _see_ musicians standing on the stage—up center right, down left, dead center. It’s uncanny. 
They put you in the conductor’s chair. You _will_ feel the urge to conduct along with Currentzis.
In terms of tone: perhaps as the HE1000 can be called a mellower HD800, so the HD800 is a mellower K1000. The detail is all there, but the presentation is a bit more distant. It is not surprising that K1000 is _even more_ intolerant of anything other than classical and some other acoustic. Going to HD800, it sounds like someone hung a few tapestries. 
If K1000 pulls vocals forward, the net result of that is that the orchestra, and especially the bass, is deemphasized just a bit. Here the question is about preference more than superiority. Ditto soundstage presentation. Ultimately I think they’re more or less equally fast.
  
Uno Voce Poco Fa & Dunque Io Sono, Barber of Seville, Rossini, Maria Callas (1958). Late enough in her career to be in stereo, early enough for her voice not to be totally shot. The happy medium!  

K1000: dear GOD Maria could be standing in front of me. 
Philharmonia is rendered with utter coherence; the less EQ, the more Callas comes forward from the orchestra. Violins to the left, violas in the middle, celli and bassi to the right.
The bass is very finely textured, crisp and tight, very well integrated with the rest of the frequency spectrum. It is what William F Buckley, Jr, might have nodded at approvingly. 
Anyone catch the teeny tiny high D Callas drops at 4:34 of Dunque Io Sono? K1000 reveals it with effortless precision. The final D is bigger but perhaps less exquisite.
HD800 has somewhat louder bass, equally good imaging, perhaps even finer instrument separation. HD800 is certainly more clinical; it may be second only to SR-009 in the “picking things apart” element of music, though I mean to suggest no harshness. You picture the bespeckled german surgeon cutting a tumor out of an organ. And with respect to imaging it surpasses Stax. 
If HD800 is a surgeon, K1000 is a philosopher, more intent on capturing the whole gestalt of music than dissecting it (though it is no less ruthless if any element of the performance or recording falls short). 
  
Pavarotti, Ah Mes Amis from La Fille du Regiment (Donizetti)

very good recording engineer, K1000 presents very coherent orchestral layout from far left to far right, and Luciano audibly moves back and forth across the stage. There is no grain in the high Cs. Pizzicati in the celli and bassi undergird the final section (‘militaire et Marie’) in the most satisfying manner
my temples are screaming for relief 
HD800 puts me further back, relaxes the sound somewhat. The tenor doesn’t pop out as much, is more part of a fabric. My previous remark about HD800 being to K1000 what HE1000 is to the HD800 bears repeating. People addicted to the Audeze school of sound will hate this, but K1000 gives the finger to bassheads. The bass isn’t bad at all—though I find the more you EQ K1000, the more she will rattle in defiance—but it is restrained. In an almost Steve Jobsian fashion, it is as though K1000 has decided you need just so much bass and no more. It is wonderfully refined and goes down low enough for all the classical music I listen to, but it _does not slam_. Mjolnir 2 can’t drive it as well as a $5,000 power amp, of course, and adding a subwoofer is a recurring fantasy, but if you don’t mind a lighter, refined headphone, this is your bet.
I’m still trying to sort out the neutrality/transparency question. If HD800 is the gold standard for neutrality (I defer to David Mahler here), K1000 adds a few very slight colorations that make the music, for me, jump out all the more. If HD800 is the stately realism of Henry James or George Eliot, K1000 either harkens back to the romanticism of Keats and Shelley or forward to the modernism of Proust and Woolf.  
  
Tristan und Isolde - Carlos Kleiber (studio) (prelude, nacht der liebe, liebestod) 

K1000 has its usual ‘floaty’ sound, it is lighter, more delicate, ethereal. With EQ (K1000 v.2), I’m beginning to sense that loud volume and extra bass can cause rattle. Sometimes it’s just a specific recording, sometimes she’s just being temperamental. Favoring a lack of EQ.
both voices sound incredibly immediate and natural
I feel like I’m in the opera house, the sound engulfs me. Individual celli leap out of their section at 7:43 in the prelude.
Oh! that first Oboe line in the prelude. so perfect. The tone is just spot on.
Rene Kollo’s tenor gleams just a pinch brighter from K1000. HD800 dampens it somewhat.
HD800, and here I return to bang/marry/kill, is ultimately more in control. K1000 at times gives me the impression of only just being able to hold it together. Is the rattle gone? Better savor the time without it, because in a second it’ll—oh, there it is. Is it a loud section? Need to turn it down, or we’ll get transient clipping, etc. (Mjolnir 2 problem, yes, but I decline to declare the headphone the exclusive domain of the amplification 1%). HD800 reveals problems in the source, but itself remains a neutral actor. Its soundstage, tone, treble spike etc. is what it is, but it executes what it aspires to without fail. There is no danger of error—none whatsoever. K1000 is the drunk diva (Edith Piaf?) who has moments of glory but watch out for when she accidentally vomits into your lap during that costume change after one too many pints of gin.
HD800 may place me in a private box in the back of the ‘parterre’ (to use the Met’s excessively bougie terminology), but it is a clearly delineated space, A/Bing, I continue to crave that out-of-head experience that is the exclusive purview of K1000. I think this is best described as the conductor’s podium, though I haven’t yet conducted at the Met (or anywhere else).
In the climax of of the prelude (7:00-7:40), HD800 doesn’t compel me to close my eyes and lose it in the music, even as the bass seems to hit slightly harder. Here the euphony/neutrality/transparency question comes back yet again. Tentatively: K1000 is less neutral, more euphonic, and ultimately more transparent. 
  
Was tempted to do the Kleiber live Otello (Giuseppe Verdi) with Domingo (2/19/78, at Covent Garden), but nah, Domingo/Scotto/Levine is much better recorded (same year), if five minutes longer. I could give you a review of the dozen Otellos I own but—not the time.

Can’t say this enough: if really good recordings are the HD800’s crack, then the K1000 is Rob Ford (may god have mercy on his soul). This _Otello_ is recorded under ideal conditions, and your ears thank you. We hear about how amp and recording finicky HD800 is. If that bothers you, Dorothy, the K1000 is no man’s Kansas.
I am constantly amazed at the transient response K1000 musters with pizzicato strings, especially in the lower registers. It’s creepy how well it is rendered. 
Pushed the loud sequences (opening sequence, Credo, Act 2+3 finale, death scene nearly as loud as MJ2 would go w/o hurting my ears. Zero distortion from K1000.
Finale to first act: am yet again blown away by K1000 soundstage. Pinpoint imaging.
Some slight sharpness at higher volume levels from Domingo (and trebly brass), though not in a dishonest way (it’s not much better on HE6, though that A/B really highlights how starkly out of the mainstream K1000 is in terms of bass). Esultate most prominently, obvs, though Domingo is even sharper than Scotto, and it’s stereotypically the soprano that gets demerits for shrillness. Scotto soars—utterly soars.
HD800 softens Domingo’s sharp tenor, though EQ helps the K1000. Still sharper than I’d like, however. Again: Bang, marry. Not the same.
Woodwinds have an uncanny realism with K1000—oboe especially. They float with utter persuasion. 
the ‘ave maria’, too, floats with K1000, never more than with the final A flat. With HD800 it moseys. It is still beautiful, but it is discernibly less exquisite. It is comparatively sedate. David Mahler’s comment about the ‘fullness of tone’ of the early HD800 vs. the airiness of the revision is perhaps the distinction I’m drawing here. Scotto is much more integrated with the orchestral colors than with K1000, where she is clearly forward and in her own space.
  
Puccini - Madame Butterfly Love Duet, Freni/Pavarotti, Karajan, Vienna Philharmonic

Hello, loudness wars! It’s a lush, opulent recording, but at the final high C (which Pavarotti takes despite its being only written for the soprano) you can hear scratching that the recording engineers should _not_ have permitted in the right channel. Also just after the 3:00 mark of ‘Vogliatemi Bene’—a scratching again in the right channel as Freni sighs ’Sì, per la vita’ and Pavarotti says ‘Vieni! Vieni!’
HD800 nails the percussion—triangle ‘ting’ is spot on, placed very precisely about halfway to the left side.
It also nails the impact. Puccini in particular (who famously was said to “sound better than he is,” versus Wagner, who “is better than he sounds”) desperately needs sonics that allow his thrilling bass to come through. The K1000’s awesome midrange is not enough—he cries out for the bass slam of HD800 (first time anyone has written those words?). I’m betting HE-6 is even better. (EDIT: Yep. Very slam. Such impactful. Wow.)
With K1000, Pavaratti comes out at me more palpably. Freni too, but with her it’s the limitless highs, much more beautiful—with the tenor it’s a matter of presence. The harp plucks have more beauty with K1000, more body with HD800. 
K1000 diva places scratchy artifacts of the recording more in your face. Shocker, I know.
  
*In short:*

*K1000’s speaker-like presentation is so unlike any headphone, you need to experience it to understand it. *
*for K1000, feel free to use EQ as training wheels, but you will likely grow out of it after a week or two of heavy listening. It worsens her rattle.*
*Rattle tends to be worse in larger orchestral recordings, as well as the sibilant, old, or poorly mastered.*
*I prefer the out-of-head sound of the K1000 pretty much across the board*
*BUT: she is significantly more fatiguing acoustically and after an hour or two can become mildly painful physically. She also can’t do big Puccini climaxes, Aida elephant marches, etc. as persuasively.*
*HD800 will avoid transient clipping of less-than-speaker amplifiers during climaxes of big recordings at especially loud volumes. Some recordings are more ornery than others.*
*In the ‘K1000 as diva’ motif: the bass isn’t light; it’s dignified. It will not change; you must change your expectations.*
*K1000 is a smidgen less neutral, more euphonic, but more transparent?? Sometimes I think so, other times I think it’s preference and suitability of the recording.*
*True story: Just as anyone who drives faster than you is a maniac and anyone who drives slower is a moron, any amp or cans with more treble than a given head-fier likes will be dismissed as “bright” and more bass than they like will be “dark"...*
*But I like K1000. A lot.*
  
OK, so next up I’m thinking of doing chamber stuff. Let me know if you have any specific requests. Thanks!


----------



## FLTWS

Great job! That's a favorite "Butterfly" for me. I've never heard that T & I with Kleiber, I might check it out.
  
 Chamber: I'm thinking small ensembles doing CPE Bach or Boyce symphonies. Or were you thinking along the lines of Quartets and Sonatas?
  
 One of my favorite smallish ensemble works that also happens to be an opera is Purcell's Dido & Aeneas. On Philips with Donath, Veasey, and Shirley-Quirk conducted by Davis with ASMF. This is pretty far from my standard diet of Mahler, Strauss, Bruckner, Wagner, Puccini, Ravel and Debussy, but I need a change of pace now and then. In the closing pages Dido belts out "When I am laid in earth", the chorus sings "With drooping wings" a cappella (I can almost count the number of singers), and then with just a few members of the string section the drooping wings melody is repeated to close the work quietly, (again the inner voicing of the individual players is crystal clear). It's over, but the sound of nothing that follows holds my attention for a bit. Hard to describe. This closing has always struck me like an out of body experience, after the preceding 2 sections. Especially on the 800 with MJ2 tubed. Just a thought.


----------



## fjrabon

Amping the HD800 mostly comes down to whether or not you want the amp to EQ. My theory has always been use EQ to EQ and use the amp to fuel transient response, imaging, transparency and soundstage. I'm not a huge fan of OTL amps in general, other than with the HD650 or Beyer DT880/990 600 ohm. To me they, as a generality, lack that last bit of transient response and transparency. High end OTC has been where I've gotten best results. However, my answer may be different if I weren't using sonarworks to flatten the HD800's frequency response first. If you don't use any form of EQ, you may prefer the bass hump a very high output impedance OTL amp provides in addition to euphonic distortion to blur over the treble. However, that necessarily comes at the expense of transparency, damping factor and thus transient response. If you use EQ to EQ and not the amp, you don't have to chose between transparency, transient response and frequency response, you can get all of them. 

Let EQ do what EQ is designed for (fixing frequency response)
Let amps do what amps are designed to do (providing the crispest, least distorted signal)


----------



## icebear

Great write up bosiemoncrieff





 This is the way all reviews should be written:
 A specific mention of a recording and how certain equipment reproduces a particular passage in the performance.
 A lot of reviews on the web nowadays don't mention the music at ALL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...
 Only unspecific blurr and bs like "phenomenal bass" and "oh so sweet upper mids" and "highs without glare". Give me the name of the recording, name that instrument which sounds like the real thing live and spell out the name of that lady giving you the goosebumps whispering into your ears. Not mentioning any of this ... gimme a break and get lost. Funny thing (or maybe not
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) is that manufacturers point to such reviews and explicitly thank the author. Without specific description such a "review" or comparison of equipment can be completely made up out of thin air. It doesn't say anything beyond the the "reviewer" is not trustworthy and has no clue about how to put musical impressions into words.
  
 And btw comfort is a must have for me and the small slightly rounded triangle cushions of the K-1000 are a no go for me. These put too much pressure on my temples. It becomes painful after 10 minutes. For me these are extreme nearfield monitors but not headphones. Sound stage wise it is of course the best.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Not to get ahead of ourselves but—would anyone be interested in an AKG N90Q/HD800 shootout?


----------



## thekorsen

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Not to get ahead of ourselves but—would anyone be interested in an AKG N90Q/HD800 shootout?


 
 I would. Not many detailed comparisons of the N90Q vs other equally priced high end contenders. But while the tech and sound has me interested, the styling...really makes me wish they took a different direction. Especially for a headphone meant to be used portably...and probably the most expensive headphone designed to be used portably at that.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

thekorsen said:


> I would. Not many detailed comparisons of the N90Q vs other equally priced high end contenders. But while the tech and sound has me interested, the styling...really makes me wish they took a different direction. Especially for a headphone meant to be used portably...and probably the most expensive headphone designed to be used portably at that.




I think the shure electrostatic IEMs are still the priciest but I take your point


----------



## siwolfman

shetzu said:


> Excellent job.




Agreed! Looks beautiful!


----------



## Peti

The HD800S is off the wall of Fame. I love the utopia and maybe it's my sentimentality, but I feel sorry for the removal. It's like, the end of an era. I still immensely enjoy my hd800 though. How do you guys feel about it?


----------



## apmusson

peti said:


> The HD800S is off the wall of Fame. I love the utopia and maybe it's my sentimentality, but I feel sorry for the removal. It's like, the end of an era. I still immensely enjoy my hd800 though. How do you guys feel about it?




I'm a little surprised. I love my hd800 and had a 10 minute listen to the utopia at Canjam London. It was excellent but I didn't get a sense that it was night and day better. It was show conditions though. I will get a better chance to compare at a forthcoming audition at the end of September though.


----------



## FatTeemo

apmusson said:


> I'm a little surprised. I love my hd800 and had a 10 minute listen to the utopia at Canjam London. It was excellent but I didn't get a sense that it was night and day better. It was show conditions though. I will get a better chance to compare at a forthcoming audition at the end of September though.


 
  
 I am surprised too because as far as I know, the newer totl headphones that just came out still do not match the HD 800 in imaging and soundstage.


----------



## FLTWS

fatteemo said:


> I am surprised too because as far as I know, the newer totl headphones that just came out still do not match the HD 800 in imaging and soundstage.


 
  
 I really like the 800, haven't heard the Focal's. But priorities for each listener will vary and we all listen with different ears.  Imaging and sound stage are at the bottom of my list of important attributes in a head phone. Well below tonal accuracy and transparency, inner detail retrieval, transient attack and decay, composure in complex loud music, dynamic range capabilities - ability to resolve the very loud from the very soft.  A headphone with fantastic imaging capabilities but that makes a violin sound like a viola won't open my wallet.


----------



## pctazhp

fltws said:


> I really like the 800, haven't heard the Focal's. But priorities for each listener will vary and we all listen with different ears.  Imaging and sound stage are at the bottom of my list of important attributes in a head phone. Well below tonal accuracy and transparency, inner detail retrieval, transient attack and decay, composure in complex loud music, dynamic range capabilities - ability to resolve the very loud from the very soft.  A headphone with fantastic imaging capabilities but that makes a violin sound like a viola won't open my wallet.


 
 I haven't heard the Focals either but certainly am aware of many positive posts about them and the new Mr. Speaker phones. What I find interesting is that a lot of positive posts I see don't seem to depend much on what DAC or amp they are using. It took me a lot of research, risk taking and then extensive tube rolling to develop good (dreaded word) "synergy" with my S. What I have achieved is pure "magic" to my ears. Maybe Focal has discovered the fairy dust that renders their phones immune to up stream gear


----------



## ubs28

peti said:


> The HD800S is off the wall of Fame. I love the utopia and maybe it's my sentimentality, but I feel sorry for the removal. It's like, the end of an era. I still immensely enjoy my hd800 though. How do you guys feel about it?


 
  
 I'm ok with it. The HD 800 is very sensitive to what is in the chain. So removing the HD 800 because it supposedly has bad treble and bad bass is something I disagree with because on an other setup that might not be the case (unless Tyll tested the HD 800 on every possible setup).


----------



## Peti

fltws said:


> I really like the 800, haven't heard the Focal's. But priorities for each listener will vary and we all listen with different ears.  Imaging and sound stage are at the bottom of my list of important attributes in a head phone. Well below tonal accuracy and transparency, inner detail retrieval, transient attack and decay, composure in complex loud music, dynamic range capabilities - ability to resolve the very loud from the very soft.  A headphone with fantastic imaging capabilities but that makes a violin sound like a viola won't open my wallet.


 

 If that's so, you will be in genuine love with the Utopia!


----------



## Sorrodje

peti said:


> The HD800S is off the wall of Fame. I love the utopia and maybe it's my sentimentality, but I feel sorry for the removal. It's like, the end of an era. I still immensely enjoy my hd800 though. How do you guys feel about it?


 
  

  
  
 But I'm waiting an utopia to make my own opinion by myself


----------



## johnjen

2 things…
 This might just drive the price down for the 800S, which can be a good thing as it will become all the more affordable.
  
 It is my understanding that the 800S is "off the wall" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But the 800 remains…
  
 JJ


----------



## bearFNF

johnjen said:


> 2 things…
> This might just drive the price down for the 800S, which can be a good thing as it will become all the more affordable.
> 
> It is my understanding that the 800S is "off the wall" :atsmile:
> ...


The HD800 was retired off the wall when the HD800S went on.


----------



## Peti

sorrodje said:


> But I'm waiting an utopia to make my own opinion by myself




I personally find this a rather rude of a comment, but I derived your opinion, nevertheless.


----------



## johnjen

bearfnf said:


> The HD800 was retired off the wall when the HD800S went on.


 
 Ah yes I see that now.
  
 Oh well…
  
 JJ


----------



## Youth

peti said:


> The HD800S is off the wall of Fame. I love the utopia and maybe it's my sentimentality, but I feel sorry for the removal. It's like, the end of an era. I still immensely enjoy my hd800 though. *How do you guys feel about it?*


 
  
 About time.


----------



## icebear

sorrodje said:


> But I'm waiting an utopia to make my own opinion by myself


 
  
 There was Tyll's wall of fame and now it TEN's* wall of fame, everybody should add a grain of salt, or two to anything being hyped now
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (*The Enthusiast Network)
  
 And if I liked the HD800 / 800S for my personal musical preference before, does it make ANY difference, if it on or off the wall? ... see picture above
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## pctazhp

icebear said:


> There was Tyll's wall of fame and now it TEN's* wall of fame, everybody should add a grain of salt, or two to anything being hyped now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It makes a HUGE difference. I can no longer listen to my HD800S. I will immediately spend $4000 on the Utopia so I can start listening to music again


----------



## Arniesb

pctazhp said:


> It makes a HUGE difference. I can no longer listen to my HD800S. I will immediately spend $4000 on the Utopia so I can start listening to music again


Thanks for a good laugh


----------



## thefitz

You're never off the wall. You're just retired.
  
 My wall of fame is whether or not a headphone has made me catch myself dancing like an idiot along to the music.
  
 Caught myself a few times with the SD800. Have yet to with the LCD-3F.


----------



## fjrabon

I think Tyll is in a bit of a tough place with the HD800.  In some sense he's forced to put things on the wall as purely unmodded/unEQd/with a variety of amps.  I think Tyll would agree that setup just right, the HD800 meets or exceeds basically everything out there.  However, he can't really rate it as "if you do X mod or EQ, and use one of these certain amps then..." He has to rate it as is, and I think most of us HD800 lovers even agree that it needs something to solve a couple of its issues.  However easily those issues are solved with DSP, amp synergy or mods, they're still issues he has to take into account for the wall of fame.  
  
 So, while I think the HD800, in the system I have it in, would likely blow the doors off any Elear setup, I also recognize you can't really do that for the purpose of ranking/review/WoF.  Yes, it's easier to fix frequency response issues (which the HD800 has) than it is lack of soundstage and resolution (which the Elear has, at least in comparison to the HD800).
  
 (I also recognize that some people don't mind the HD800's stock frequency response, or even like it, but I think we can all recognize that the generalized consensus that Tyll has to play to when it comes to FR is that it's too strident/bright in a purely off the shelf into a neutral amp scenario).


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm doing less EQ over time, not more. I'm not against it at all, I just find myself acclimating well to its signature (and, as you know, K1000).


----------



## beowulf

You guys got it wrong. They're still on the WoF and right at the top of the page 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame-full-size-open


----------



## bearFNF

beowulf said:


> You guys got it wrong. They're still on the WoF and right at the top of the page
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame-full-size-open


LOL..all three of those have been retired from the list. They just need to update their picture...


----------



## smodtactical

fjrabon said:


> I think Tyll is in a bit of a tough place with the HD800.  In some sense he's forced to put things on the wall as purely unmodded/unEQd/with a variety of amps.  I think Tyll would agree that setup just right, the HD800 meets or exceeds basically everything out there.  However, he can't really rate it as "if you do X mod or EQ, and use one of these certain amps then..." He has to rate it as is, and I think most of us HD800 lovers even agree that it needs something to solve a couple of its issues.  However easily those issues are solved with DSP, amp synergy or mods, they're still issues he has to take into account for the wall of fame.
> 
> So, while I think the HD800, in the system I have it in, would likely blow the doors off any Elear setup, I also recognize you can't really do that for the purpose of ranking/review/WoF.  Yes, it's easier to fix frequency response issues (which the HD800 has) than it is lack of soundstage and resolution (which the Elear has, at least in comparison to the HD800).
> 
> (I also recognize that some people don't mind the HD800's stock frequency response, or even like it, but I think we can all recognize that the generalized consensus that Tyll has to play to when it comes to FR is that it's too strident/bright in a purely off the shelf into a neutral amp scenario).


 
  
 Seems Tyll felt the 800 S fixed the key problem with the 800 unmodded and that was the trouble spike yet still felt the utopia was significantly superior to the 800 S in almost every department.
  
 They must be some pretty incredible headphones. In terms of setup he seems to use the same amp on all the phones (moon neo 430).. but I wonder if you are right and different amps may make the 800 superior to other phones.


----------



## siwolfman

beowulf said:


> You guys got it wrong. They're still on the WoF and right at the top of the page
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Also, notice the Cardas Clear cable attached to the HD 800. Not quite a mod but it sure isn't stock (or cheap).


----------



## thefitz

siwolfman said:


> Also, notice the Cardas Clear cable attached to the HD 800. Not quite a mod but it sure isn't stock (or cheap).


 

 That cable is featured here:
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-cable-measurements-part-one-page-2


----------



## fjrabon

smodtactical said:


> Seems Tyll felt the 800 S fixed the key problem with the 800 unmodded and that was the trouble spike yet still felt the utopia was significantly superior to the 800 S in almost every department.
> 
> They must be some pretty incredible headphones. In terms of setup he seems to use the same amp on all the phones (moon neo 430).. but I wonder if you are right and different amps may make the 800 superior to other phones.



My take on Tyll's view of the 800s was that it did help somewhat fix some of the HD800's most egregious issues, but not completely. He still seemed to think it lacked some bass and was overall too bright to be called neutral. Just no longner to him (and others) offensively shrill and bodyless, as had become the consensus of the Hd800. However he also thought the 800S created a new problem in that it created some 2nd harmonic distortion in the process, and thus wasn't quite as resolving or precise imaging wise as the HD800. I believe he still viewed the HD800 as the soundstage and imaging king, and able to stand toe to toe with anything in resolution and transparency. 

I think he felt the utopia exceeded the HD800 in tonality, matched it in resolution, but was slightly behind in soundstage. For him that put the Utopia ahead, since it beat the HD800S in tonality, matched the Hd800 in resolution (and beat the HD800s), even if it was slightly behind both HD800 models in soundstage. I think that's a fair assessment. But to me, it keeps the door open for the right HD800 system to beat the Utopia. You can't give the Utopia the Hd800's soundstage, but you can give the HD800 the utopia's tonality.


----------



## FLTWS

fjrabon said:


> You can't give the Utopia the Hd800's soundstage, but you can give the HD800 the utopia's tonality.


 
  
 That's an interesting possibility.


----------



## Peti

I beg to differ: the soundstage between the two are significant. some will say the hd800 has artificially wide soundstage (an oxymoron if you ask me) but to me it is the main attraction of these headphones. whether you watch movies or enjoy some quadrophonic records the feeling is ndescribably good through the Sennheiser.


----------



## Hansotek

fjrabon said:


> My take on Tyll's view of the 800s was that it did help somewhat fix some of the HD800's most egregious issues, but not completely. He still seemed to think it lacked some bass and was overall too bright to be called neutral. Just no longner to him (and others) offensively shrill and bodyless, as had become the consensus of the Hd800. However he also thought the 800S created a new problem in that it created some 2nd harmonic distortion in the process, and thus wasn't quite as resolving or precise imaging wise as the HD800. I believe he still viewed the HD800 as the soundstage and imaging king, and able to stand toe to toe with anything in resolution and transparency.
> 
> I think he felt the utopia exceeded the HD800 in tonality, matched it in resolution, but was slightly behind in soundstage. For him that put the Utopia ahead, since it beat the HD800S in tonality, matched the Hd800 in resolution (and beat the HD800s), even if it was slightly behind both HD800 models in soundstage. I think that's a fair assessment. But to me, it keeps the door open for the right HD800 system to beat the Utopia. You can't give the Utopia the Hd800's soundstage, but you can give the HD800 the utopia's tonality.




Yeah, I love my HD800, but it isn't on the Utopia's level for tonality, dynamics or resolution. Don't love my HD800 any less, but the Utopia blows it out of the water.


----------



## MacedonianHero

hansotek said:


> Yeah, I love my HD800, but it isn't on the Utopia's level for tonality, dynamics or resolution. Don't love my HD800 any less, but the Utopia blows it out of the water.


 
 Agreed.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

How does it compare to SR009 in terms of detail retrieval, transient response, neutrality, and overall transparency?


----------



## Hansotek

bosiemoncrieff said:


> How does it compare to SR009 in terms of detail retrieval, transient response, neutrality, and overall transparency?




Unless you are willing to shell out the $$$$ for a Blue Hawaii, the Utopia will be the better choice. If you do have the money to get a Blue Hawaii, skip the SR-009 and get the upcoming Mr. Speakers electrostatic instead.

I made a bunch of comparisons between the Utopia and several other headphones (including the SR-009) right here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/811270/focal-elear-and-utopia-review-preview-with-measurements-head-fi-tv/1935#post_12790208


----------



## pervysage

Anyone who has heard both HD800 and Utopia. Percentage wise... how much more bass does the Utopia have?


----------



## FLTWS

hansotek said:


> Unless you are willing to shell out the $$$$ for a Blue Hawaii, the Utopia will be the better choice. If you do have the money to get a Blue Hawaii, skip the SR-009 and get the upcoming Mr. Speakers electrostatic instead.
> 
> I made a bunch of comparisons between the Utopia and several other headphones (including the SR-009) right here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/811270/focal-elear-and-utopia-review-preview-with-measurements-head-fi-tv/1935#post_12790208


 
  
 Hansotek's comparisons are a must read. Being familiar with the other contenders in this ring his write-up almost made me order them "sound unheard". I managed to get my sweaty wallet hand under control however. For the time being.


----------



## beowulf

fltws said:


> Hansotek's comparisons are a must read. Being familiar with the other contenders in this ring his write-up almost made me order them "sound unheard". I managed to get my sweaty wallet hand under control however. For the time being.


 

 It was a really interesting write-up indeed. They are tempting. Very well build apparently. lambskin, carbon fiber... And apparently a sound to match that.
 Still, we're looking at maybe 4300 EUR in Europe ($4000+tax) which is a lot of money compared to alternatives. Are they worth the premium? Would have to hear.
  
 The article left me a bit excited about the HD800S I'm expecting in the mail tomorrow, especially regarding imaging/soundstage, where the Focus doesn't come close.
 I thought about delaying the 800 and waiting to hear the Focals, but availability might take a while, plus it will have to be brilliant to be worth twice as much as an (800+average amp). Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.


----------



## FLTWS

beowulf said:


> It was a really interesting write-up indeed. They are tempting. Very well build apparently. lambskin, carbon fiber... And apparently a sound to match that.
> Still, we're looking at maybe 4300 EUR in Europe ($4000+tax) which is a lot of money compared to alternatives. Are they worth the premium? Would have to hear.
> 
> The article left me a bit excited about the HD800S I'm expecting in the mail tomorrow, especially regarding imaging/soundstage, where the Focus doesn't come close.
> I thought about delaying the 800 and waiting to hear the Focals, but availability might take a while, plus it will have to be brilliant to be worth twice as much as an (800+average amp). Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.


 
  
 Long term wearing comfort is another part of the equation for me, but having read so many "If you find the HighFiMan 1000's comfortable you should have no issue with the Utopia..." comments along with the reasonably uniform responses on sound capabilities. I'm trying to fight the good fight against a blind buy, but may lose that battle.
  
 I really like the 800 warts and all, I'll get to compare directly against the S probably the end of Sept.
  
 I'd like your impressions on S.
  
 Something  I've thought would be interesting is for posters to re-review their phones a full calendar year after purchasing. Maybe even a separate thread for this purpose so as to not confuse first impressions with lasting impressions. Even if it's just a " I stand by my original thoughts" type of comment.


----------



## icebear

There is obviously some serious honeymooning effect going on with folks who just shelled out 4 grand for a headphone which looks like a race car body - oh yeah carbon fiber looks at that
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. They have to justify that expense. If you can and want to afford that, congrats!
  
 I would be a little hesitant to jump on anything in the first weeks of release. If you read between the lines and consider the value of the HD800 and good amp vs a headphone alone for 4 grand that doesn't have a comparable sound stage presentation ... OK everybody has is own preference and priorities. I have a solid no go factor which is in-head localization. A  headphone at this price level not better or at least as good as the 5 or 6 year old HD800? Oh well, open your wallets, swipe your credit cards and jump on the latest greatest. Have fun and enjoy.


----------



## fjrabon

icebear said:


> There is obviously some serious honeymooning effect going on with folks who just shelled out 4 grand for a headphone which looks like a race car body - oh yeah carbon fiber looks at that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, I am waiting on the dust to settle when it comes to the Elear/Utopia.  I was on the initial order list for the Elear, and then the recall issue happened, and I was given the option to either cancel my order or wait a month or two on the second batch, I was unnerved and cancelled.  Honestly, with sonarworks I've stopped caring as much about tonality.  And while I totally understand raving over the Utopia's straight out of the box near perfect tonality, I can click a button on my HD800 and get that as well.


----------



## pctazhp

icebear said:


> There is obviously some serious honeymooning effect going on with folks who just shelled out 4 grand for a headphone which looks like a race car body - oh yeah carbon fiber looks at that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I really have no problem with people who can easily afford the "latest-and-greatest". I think it is stupid to want to deny others something simply because I can't afford it.
  
 I love my HD800S. I haven't tried EQ, but my choice of upstream gear and extensive tube-rolling has given me hundreds of hours of music "magic" ))))
  
 At some point, I might consider the Elear, but am in no hurry.I'm really a one-headphone kind of guy.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Its description sounds a little like how some of the HE-6 nuts describe it with six different mods and a 5k power amp. If you can get a vintage amp for cheap, I'm curious to hear a bit more about how the two compare. This emphasis on dynamism, great tone throughout the FQ spectrum, and non-fatiguing highs seems to have HE6 written all over it. Like Focal, though, the soundstage would appear to fall short of HD800/K1000.


----------



## Hansotek

icebear said:


> There is obviously some serious honeymooning effect going on with folks who just shelled out 4 grand for a headphone which looks like a race car body - oh yeah carbon fiber looks at that:rolleyes: . They have to justify that expense. If you can and want to afford that, congrats!
> 
> I would be a little hesitant to jump on anything in the first weeks of release. If you read between the lines and consider the value of the HD800 and good amp vs a headphone alone for 4 grand that doesn't have a comparable sound stage presentation ... OK everybody has is own preference and priorities. I have a solid no go factor which is in-head localization. A  headphone at this price level not better or at least as good as the 5 or 6 year old HD800? Oh well, open your wallets, swipe your credit cards and jump on the latest greatest. Have fun and enjoy.




FWIW, I don't own the Utopia - so there's no honeymooning or justifying going on in those impressions.


----------



## Hansotek

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Its description sounds a little like how some of the HE-6 nuts describe it with six different mods and a 5k power amp. If you can get a vintage amp for cheap, I'm curious to hear a bit more about how the two compare. This emphasis on dynamism, great tone throughout the FQ spectrum, and non-fatiguing highs seems to have HE6 written all over it. Like Focal, though, the soundstage would appear to fall short of HD800/K1000.




Yeah, a maxed-out, well amped, good production model HE-6 is probably the best comparison for the Utopia.


----------



## thefitz

hansotek said:


> Yeah, a maxed-out, well amped, good production model HE-6 is probably the best comparison for the Utopia.


 

 Have we figured out what the hell "quality watts" are for amping an HE-6? That thread scares me.


----------



## icebear

hansotek said:


> FWIW, I don't own the Utopia - so there's no honeymooning or justifying going on in those impressions.


 

 OK, then it was "first date only" impressions, not even honeymoon.


----------



## Peti

icebear said:


> There is obviously some serious honeymooning effect going on with folks who just shelled out 4 grand for a headphone which looks like a race car body - oh yeah carbon fiber looks at that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 7 years old HD800!


----------



## Hansotek

icebear said:


> OK, then it was "first date only" impressions, not even honeymoon.




Yes, that is the essential difference between "impressions" and "reviews".


----------



## thekorsen

Just wanted to mention I recently got my HD800 (a SD mod and a Vali 2 w/ extra tubes coming soon) and was blown away. Completely. But while the headphone driven straight from a media player was breathtaking...running it through Out of Your Head just elevated it to a level of realism and immersion that is stunning. While OOYH was great on my TH-X00s, there is no comparison to what it does on the HD800s. I don't want to come off as shamelessly promoing that software though, but its something that I think needs to be experienced if you have the HD800s on hand. I'd also highly recommend using Equalier APO and the Peace extension along with it to actively convert stereo to 7.1, it really completes the effect when listening from stereo recordings IMO.


----------



## MikePio

Thought I would share this with you guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. So far I have been using the HD800 (classic) with no mods with a SS setup. I was happy with the sound as I never really had a treble issue but decided that adding some tubes in its path wouldn't hurt. I know getting a tube buffer is not optimal, but I really did not want to sell my HA-5000 amplifier since it is a really good amplifier with fantastic transparency, smoothness and space. 
  
 I bought some 6SN7GTB Sylvania (Baldwin Organ/Piano) tubes and put them in the Yaqin CD3 buffer. First thing I checked after burning the unit in for some time, was if there was any humming or buzzing sound. It was dead quiet. Next thing was the volume, I have read reviews saying that for some people the volume increased but for me it was the same. 
  
 Now my impression, I am pretty surprised actually. The tube buffer does not take away from the soundstage (actually you can say it is slightly more 3 dimensional) or airiness that I came to love from the HA-5000 and introduces a more harmonically rich and pleasing sound. Basically the fatigue after long listening sessions is decreased. Also the soaring highs are not excessively tamed and still sparkle nicely. Going back and forth (A/B) between with and without the buffer there are some trade offs (as always). The bass lacks the tightness and definition and is slightly more flabby. The hyper detailed sound presentation is tuned down. The unit needs to burn in until I can fully make a concise evaluation, but so this unit does a really good job. I would say the changes have been positive and I will keep it in my system. Here she is with the rest of the family.


----------



## pctazhp

mikepio said:


> Thought I would share this with you guys
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Very interesting. I have wondered how the Yaqin CD3 would work with a solid state amp.
  
 Many tube amp owners (myself included) believe that tubes can "add" something that improves listening enjoyment without removing in any significant manner things like detail. Perhaps they even bring listening closer to a live performance.
  
 Most tube amp owners don't seem to care why. I personally think it involves the addition of a judicious level of even-order harmonic distortion. Although I suppose tubes can affect the shape of the soundwave some - sort of hit or miss EQ.
  
 I suspect the CD3 mates well with the HD800 because it is a very revealing headphone. I think other good headphones might also benefit from adding the CD3 to a solid state amp system.
  
 You may now join the world of us crazy tube-rollers)))


----------



## MikePio

pctazhp said:


> Very interesting. I have wondered how the Yaqin CD3 would work with a solid state amp.
> 
> Many tube amp owners (myself included) believe that tubes can "add" something that improves listening enjoyment without removing in any significant manner things like detail. Perhaps they even bring listening closer to a live performance.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Honestly, the Yaqin CD3 was not even on my radar but after buying new cables (copper) for the HD800's which I shortly returned since the soundstage was greatly reduced and I just couldn't justify the price difference compared to the original and a case could be made they sounded even worse. The stock cable on the HD800 is really good quality in my opinion. After, I just decided to give the Yaqin buffer a try and it was cheaper than the aftermarket cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, even with the added cost of new interconnects and tube upgrade. For now, I am really happy with the improvements. It is not night and day in terms of calming the sound down, they still are way more lively than the HD650's or other headphones with similar laid back sound signatures. The main positive for me is that the soundstage is massive and the airiness remains with a touch of harmonic richness that was not there without the buffer. I don't think it would hurt for someone to add this to their SS system especially with resolving and detailed headphones such as the HD800. Highly recommended and doesn't leave a hole in your wallet.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

thefitz said:


> Have we figured out what the hell "quality watts" are for amping an HE-6? That thread scares me.


 

 Krell's power amps are a popular choice. I keep meaning to bring it to LA to listen on my late grandfather's vintage two-channel. I listened on someone's power amp (and Yggy) a few months ago, and even in stock form, it really opened up. I'm keeping Mjolnir as long as I can though. Maybe I'd dump it for a secondhand WA5, but that's about it. It's good enough, and I've spent enough.


----------



## MacedonianHero

bosiemoncrieff said:


> How does it compare to SR009 in terms of detail retrieval, transient response, neutrality, and overall transparency?


 
 I will capture that in my review of them.


----------



## wcsmd

I have HD 800S and LCD3 F and both are great sound with my Woo Audio WA5 with the TAT upgrade tubes. They are, however, very different sounds. I use the LCD3 for a more refined sound and the HD800S for more neutral (read here harsher) sound. The HD is certainly more open with a wider stage. What has made a huge difference for both are upgraded cables. The Artisan Silver -- Silver Dream for the L:CD3 and the Moon Audio Black V2 for the HD. The signals on both improved in resolution on both after a  burn in. I agree that it is not so much which is better when you get top this level of HP but what sound you like with which type of music!!


----------



## ezekiel77

I'm just gonna say, Vega > Taurus > HD800 (unmodded) in fully balanced rocks my world totally right now. Unreal bass punch and texture, and treble has that sparkly smoothness that has to be heard to be believed.


----------



## whirlwind

I have been using the HD800 and a wonderful custom OTL for over a year now, rolling tubes about once a week now.....I could not be happier


----------



## Shetzu

I want an OTL amp for my HD800. Do you think Woo Audio WA3 will solve the purpose. Since I would be only using it with my high impedance HD800 this falls in my budget too. If you guys using tube amps could provide me more inputs I would really appreciate it.


----------



## thefitz

shetzu said:


> I want an OTL amp for my HD800. Do you think Woo Audio WA3 will solve the purpose. Since I would be only using it with my high impedance HD800 this falls in my budget too. If you guys using tube amps could provide me more inputs I would really appreciate it.


 

 My original Valhalla drives them beautifully, and everyone's going to jump in and say Bottlehead Crack


----------



## longbowbbs

At the higher end the ALO Audio Studio Six is a fabulous match with the HD800's


----------



## Shetzu

longbowbbs said:


> At the higher end the ALO Audio Studio Six is a fabulous match with the HD800's


 
 I read your review on the Heron 5 SS amp. Do you recommend this over tube? Today is last date on massdrop for Heron 5 sale. Many suggest to me HD 800 goes very well with Tubes. Could you lay some insights to this. I also have my ey on the WA2 but it is beyond my budget. Will WA6 help out to give me that musical sound.


----------



## pctazhp

thefitz said:


> My original Valhalla drives them beautifully, and everyone's going to jump in and say Bottlehead Crack


 
 Not everyone. I'm going to jump in and say the Feliks Audio Elise should be on his list.


----------



## Shetzu

pctazhp said:


> Not everyone. I'm going to jump in and say the Feliks Audio Elise should be on his list.


 
 Elise is the Polish maker. I contacted them but apparently they use only postal service to ship which I cannot rely upon.


----------



## pctazhp

shetzu said:


> Elise is the Polish maker. I contacted them but apparently they use only postal service to ship which I cannot rely upon.


 
 I understand. There are many good choices of amps.
  
 Cheers from a fellow D-7100 owner )))


----------



## Shetzu

pctazhp said:


> I understand. There are many good choices of amps.
> 
> Cheers from a fellow D-7100 owner )))


 
 Hey so you read my profile haha. Cheers.


----------



## longbowbbs

shetzu said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > At the higher end the ALO Audio Studio Six is a fabulous match with the HD800's
> ...


 
 That was not my review. I have never used the Heron. Generally, I have found the HD800's are at their best with tubes for my own listening tastes, The Decware amps, Bottlehead Crack, Eddie Current amps all show well with the HD800's. The Simaudio Moon 430 and the new Questyle Audio CMA600i are examples of SS that work well with the HD800's.


----------



## Shetzu

longbowbbs said:


> That was not my review. I have never used the Heron. Generally, I have found the HD800's are at their best with tubes for my own listening tastes, The Decware amps, Bottlehead Crack, Eddie Current amps all show well with the HD800's. The Simaudio Moon 430 and the new Questyle Audio CMA600i are examples of SS that work well with the HD800's.


 
 Thanks noted. Appreciate you help. I too am keen and inclined towards Tube amps. I will check on these However these amps are bit on the higher cost.


----------



## FLTWS

thefitz said:


> My original Valhalla drives them beautifully, and everyone's going to jump in and say Bottlehead Crack


 
  
 If a Valhalla 3 shows up with balanced in/out, I'll be all over it!


----------



## LarryMagoo

Just my 2 cents....I love my Oppo HA-1 using the balanced connection (4X the power).  It has all the power I need, Dead silent...so much so that I have fallen asleep with them on between cuts and then awakened with the next song ......Plus remote control can even advance the next song with my MAC mini...So many features on this wonderful SS amp.   One downside is the HA-1 takes 45 minutes to an hour to come up to operating temp....about 102-108 Degrees...then they sound as smooth as silk...


----------



## thefitz

fltws said:


> If a Valhalla 3 shows up with balanced in/out, I'll be all over it!


 

 Just get 2


----------



## LarryMagoo

Their new Schiit Jotunheim has balanced out ad seems to be reviewed as having a bunch of power for the XLR out's


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

If/when we got an OTL "tubenheim" I'm gonna be all over that.


----------



## pctazhp

larrymagoo said:


> Their new Schiit Jotunheim has balanced out ad seems to be reviewed as having a bunch of power for the XLR out's


 
 My experience running the HD800S single ended is that power is really not an issue. There is much more involved in choosing a good amp. But at least for those living in the US, the Jotunheim may be worth a try because Schiit offers a 15-day return right, although there is shipping and restocking fee involved I believe.
  
 I have said this before, but my Elise runs circles around the Valhalla 2.
  
 Candidly, I have never understood why the mere fact that an amp is balanced is important in a desktop environment. I believe there are other far more important considerations. But this is just my personal opinion.


----------



## FLTWS

pctazhp said:


> ...
> Candidly, I have never understood why the mere fact that an amp is balanced is important in a desktop environment. I believe there are other far more important considerations. But this is just my personal opinion.


 
  
  I never had any exposure to balanced versus SE until a few months ago, (50 years SE before that) now I'm hooked, I like what I hear. Everyone talks about long cable runs and noise rejection characteristics, blah, blah, etc. What I hear is a very solid left/right signal that blends to a more solid center image impression which is extremely important with a symphony orchestra spread out in front of me. I hear less of this solid center with SE. Maybe the pieces parts in my electronic chains were designed to sound better thru balanced than SE and that's the reason I prefer it balanced, it is what it is for me.
  
 I also used to be a card carrying SS disparager. I'm changing my views on that as well. SS sound has come a long way since the 60's to my ears.
  
  
 I like and can afford to have options so I'm no longer single minded with regard to amplification type at this point. I trust my ears to tell me what I like.
  
 Considering the low cost I may try one SE Valhalla2 anyway, but I'm juggling too many components in the air now as it is and I can be patient at this point. End gamer phones for me is my primary focus, this amplification stuff is a second line of thought as I'm pretty satisfied with what I have and what's already on order.
  
 I never though in the very early 80's that CD's would ever sound as good as LP's to my ears. I was wrong.
  
 When I finally turned to the dark side and sold my LP collection I thought, wow, the then current crop of CD players (Wadia separates) provided a silent background for the music compared to LP's, can't get much better. (And the quality of transfer of A to D and the D itself were improving as well).  I was wrong again, Today I'm constantly getting spooked when the music starts. I look to the LED display on my transport and see: 0.01, 0.02, I'm thinking what's wrong, then that 1st attack by the instruments comes and I almost jump. And this is with music I had on LP's then replaced with CD's and listened to with the tech of the late 80's. I could still hear the background tape hiss before the music started. Not so much now.
  
 But, those just my impressions at this point in time.


----------



## fjrabon

fltws said:


> I never had any exposure to balanced versus SE until a few months ago, (50 years SE before that) now I'm hooked, I like what I hear. Everyone talks about long cable runs and noise rejection characteristics, blah, blah, etc. What I hear is a very solid left/right signal that blends to a more solid center image impression which is extremely important with a symphony orchestra spread out in front of me. I hear less of this solid center with SE. Maybe the pieces parts in my electronic chains were designed to sound better thru balanced than SE and that's the reason I prefer it balanced, it is what it is for me.
> 
> I also used to be a card carrying SS disparager. I'm changing my views on that as well. SS sound has come a long way since the 60's to my ears.
> 
> ...


 

 really this is just purely a result of crosstalk, which is fairly easily measured.  Some SE amps are bad with crosstalk, some are good with it. Usually a fully differential single end amp competes toe to toe on crosstalk measurements.


----------



## FLTWS

fjrabon said:


> really this is just purely a result of crosstalk, which is fairly easily measured.  Some SE amps are bad with crosstalk, some are good with it. Usually a fully differential single end amp competes toe to toe on crosstalk measurements.


 
  
 That makes sense.


----------



## LarryMagoo

fltws said:


> I never had any exposure to balanced versus SE until a few months ago, (50 years SE before that) now I'm hooked, I like what I hear. Everyone talks about long cable runs and noise rejection characteristics, blah, blah, etc. What I hear is a very solid left/right signal that blends to a more solid center image impression which is extremely important with a symphony orchestra spread out in front of me. I hear less of this solid center with SE. Maybe the pieces parts in my electronic chains were designed to sound better thru balanced than SE and that's the reason I prefer it balanced, it is what it is for me.
> 
> I also used to be a card carrying SS disparager. I'm changing my views on that as well. SS sound has come a long way since the 60's to my ears.
> 
> ...


 
 FLTWS,
  
 I wish more HP reviewers would discuss SE versus Balanced...because I, like you, think it is a big deal....I won't even consider an HP Amp unless it has XLR's 4 pin outs....Makes me think the designer was not into it as well...At least on my amp is has 4X the power of the SE connection.....
  
 Another thing that blows me away, like you, I think vinyl is totally silly....You can spend $100K + on just a table ...let alone the Arm/ Cartridge set up....and you can still hear the needle dragging on the vinyl....and with every play you deform the grooves so with every successive play , you wear out the record...crappy signal to noise compared with Black Silent background...way larger signal to noise...of DIGITAL....I use to have the full set up with a Table that featured Multiple arms...I had the VIP record cleaner...the little doodad that lifted the tone arm after the disc was finished so I did not have to sprint to the table to lift the arm before it crashed into the spindle ++++ I love how easy it is to select a digital file, instead of listening to whole album side 'cause you spent so much f'n time preping the vinyl to listen to.  I was one of Mobile Fidelity's biggest customers...I had the whole Beatle catalog on MoFi...sold the whole kit and caboodle to go digital...never looked back!!!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

pctazhp said:


> I have said this before, but my Elise runs circles around the Valhalla 2.


 
 It is 2x the price. In your view, does it offer 2x the SQ? Could anyone chime in about the WA3?


----------



## FLTWS

larrymagoo said:


> FLTWS,
> 
> I wish more HP reviewers would discuss SE versus Balanced...because I, like you, think it is a big deal....I won't even consider an HP Amp unless it has XLR's 4 pin outs....Makes me think the designer was not into it as well...At least on my amp is has 4X the power of the SE connection.....
> 
> Another thing that blows me away, like you, I think vinyl is totally silly....You can spend $100K + on just a table ...let alone the Arm/ Cartridge set up....and you can still hear the needle dragging on the vinyl....and with every play you deform the grooves so with every successive play , you wear out the record...crappy signal to noise compared with Black Silent background...way larger signal to noise...of DIGITAL....I use to have the full set up with a Table that featured Multiple arms...I had the VIP record cleaner...the little doodad that lifted the tone arm after the disc was finished so I did not have to sprint to the table to lift the arm before it crashed into the spindle ++++ I love how easy it is to select a digital file, instead of listening to whole album side 'cause you spent so much f'n time preping the vinyl to listen to.  I was one of Mobile Fidelity's biggest customers...I had the whole Beatle catalog on MoFi...sold the whole kit and caboodle to go digital...never looked back!!!


 
  
 I had a Nitty Gritty Record Cleaner plus a whole box of implements and accessories necessary to clean the stylus, align it, check the table for absolute level (I used machinists tools with a special jig made to sit directly over the spindle), adjust the belt speed to 331/3 precisely (worked just like a timing light in an auto), and destatic-ize the LP. I had a vacuum suction platter and isolater's for the TT, things to isolate the isolaters...
  
 It was like a church service with all bells, whistles, and procedural items on my checklist, only it took more time.  By the time I would finally get around to lowering the tone arm and stylus into the groove, set the volume to where I thought I would want it, and walked back to my listening chair I was winded. And then the volume was usually too high or too low necessitating another trip across the room and back. Good times, good times. But I was much younger then as well.
  
 I didn't know my DAC from a whole in the ground at that point and blamed the early poor quality CD sound on that nebulous demon, digititis. But eventually DACs improved, recording engineers got a better handle on how to use the 0's and 1's, and and things started sounding better, including some of the already released early port-overs from analogue tape to digital CD. It wasn't perfect or necessarily better but it sure was less labor intensive. I eventually jumped ship. The only LP I think I didn't get rid of was the "Fugs" first album (great album cover), saw'em live at the (original) Electric Factory in Philly during my ill spent early adulthood life phase.


----------



## fjrabon

larrymagoo said:


> I won't even consider an HP Amp unless it has XLR's 4 pin outs....Makes me think the designer was not into it as well...At least on my amp is has 4X the power of the SE connection.....


 
 This makes no sense on multiple levels.  Balanced is not magically better, or even inherently better.  Balanced can have some advantages, but a well designed SE amp can very much stand toe to toe with any balanced amp on short cable runs.  Yes, many balanced amps are better, but it's mostly because they're better amps, not because they're balanced.  And 4X more power doesn't mean anything unless you're actually using the power.  People on here have some sort of idea that having 4 watts available matters when you're not coming anywhere even close to actually using that power.


----------



## whirlwind

shetzu said:


> I want an OTL amp for my HD800. Do you think Woo Audio WA3 will solve the purpose. Since I would be only using it with my high impedance HD800 this falls in my budget too. If you guys using tube amps could provide me more inputs I would really appreciate it.


 
 I am using this, but I think any OTL would be a decent match..


----------



## FLTWS

The Force is strong in the glow of those tubes.


----------



## LarryMagoo

fjrabon said:


> This makes no sense on multiple levels.  Balanced is not magically better, or even inherently better.  Balanced can have some advantages, but a well designed SE amp can very much stand toe to toe with any balanced amp on short cable runs.  Yes, many balanced amps are better, but it's mostly because they're better amps, not because they're balanced.  And 4X more power doesn't mean anything unless you're actually using the power.  People on here have some sort of idea that having 4 watts available matters when you're not coming anywhere even close to actually using that power.


 

 Fjrabon,
  
 I would also agree with your statements above, what I guess I meant was the Senn's 300 Ohms does take some poop to drive and the SE out's on the HA-1 does not sufficiently have the headroom to make the 800S really sing.  My opinion is my balanced does sound better than my SE outs but that's just me...And certainly there is way more to music reproduction than sheer power...When I think I have my HP's really cranked up I am only half way (High Gain setting) on the Vol knob...
  
 It does seem though when I read about Amps with the Balanced outs, it's not uncommon to read about SQ difference between the two types of output...   I guess all anyone looking for is that sweet coupling between an Amp and their Cans that delivery them to their nirvana!!


----------



## pctazhp

bosiemoncrieff said:


> It is 2x the price. In your view, does it offer 2x the SQ? Could anyone chime in about the WA3?


 
 That's a very fair point and valid question. First, I was probably being too flippant in saying the Elise runs circles around the V2. V2 is clearly a good amp and good value. I never really know how to answer a question of whether one piece of gear is X times better than another.
  
 For me, the SQ I get from the Elise and the much greater tube-rolling flexibility make it clearly worth the price difference for me. Would I advise someone who needed to incur credit card debt and pay it off over time to finance the additional cost of the Elise to buy it. Absolutely not.
  
 Unfortunately the Elise is a gamble. It ships from Poland and there is no return right. When I bought mine (received it in January) I had to pay and then wait 10 weeks. I understand the wait time now is much shorter, but still there is no right of return. I'm thrilled with the Elise and the many satisfied owners on the two active Elise threads certainly are some indication of its value and special qualities. But it is still a gamble for anyone who orders it.
  
 Sorry. Don't know anything about the WA3.


----------



## FLTWS

fjrabon said:


> This makes no sense on multiple levels.  Balanced is not magically better, or even inherently better.  Balanced can have some advantages, but a well designed SE amp can very much stand toe to toe with any balanced amp on short cable runs.  Yes, many balanced amps are better, but it's mostly because they're better amps, not because they're balanced.  And 4X more power doesn't mean anything unless you're actually using the power.  People on here have some sort of idea that having 4 watts available matters when you're not coming anywhere even close to actually using that power.


 

  Does the availability of extra power headroom, even though you couldn't / wouldn't use all of it all of the time, but only use a small bit occasionally, have any value in a headphone? So the signal isn't continuously banging its head on some electrical limit or ceiling generating distortion of some sort. (Of course exceed the power limitations of the transducer too much for too long should = something fried).


----------



## mtbfan101

Man I'd love to audition these things!


----------



## Hansotek

fltws said:


> If a Valhalla 3 shows up with balanced in/out, I'll be all over it!



I'm not positive, but I think, by virtue of the way Valhalla is designed, that would require 6 tubes (or 8, if it was balanced in and out) and that would necessitate a larger chassis... so I wouldn't get my hopes up.


----------



## FLTWS

hansotek said:


> I'm not positive, but I think, by virtue of the way Valhalla is designed, that would require 6 tubes (or 8, if it was balanced in and out) and that would necessitate a larger chassis... so I wouldn't get my hopes up.


 
  
 I think your right, just pipe dreamin' here. The 2 is so cost effective I may get one just for giggles and kicks down the road. The way this is going I could end up with my own Schiit showroom, LOL.


----------



## Hansotek

fltws said:


> Does the availability of extra power headroom, even though you couldn't / wouldn't use all of it all of the time, but only use a small bit occasionally, have any value in a headphone? So the signal isn't continuously banging its head on some electrical limit or ceiling generating distortion of some sort. (Of course exceed the power limitations of the transducer too much for too long should = something fried).




Any amp designer will tell you it is all about implementation. The Cavalli Liquid Tungsten prototype is the best amp I've ever heard with the HD800 and that one is SE only.


----------



## fjrabon

fltws said:


> Does the availability of extra power headroom, even though you couldn't / wouldn't use all of it all of the time, but only use a small bit occasionally, have any value in a headphone? So the signal isn't continuously banging its head on some electrical limit or ceiling generating distortion of some sort. (Of course exceed the power limitations of the transducer too much for too long should = something fried).




Yes and no. With poorly designed amps, yes, you will need gobs of headroom because with some amps if you use more than about 1/8 of their power you start to get more high order distortion, which is what makes people think underpowered amps sound harsh and lack bass. It's not lack of power, it's increased distortion in those cases. However, a well made amp (especially zero feedback amps) can often use 90% of their available power with no real increase in distortion. 

But there isn't any inherent value in having more power than is needed, provided the amp doesn't see a rise in high order harmonic distortion.


----------



## FLTWS

fjrabon said:


> Yes and no. With poorly designed amps, yes, you will need gobs of headroom because with some amps if you use more than about 1/8 of their power you start to get more high order distortion, which is what makes people honk underpowered amps sound harsh and lack bass. It's not lack of power, it's increased distortion in those cases. However, a well made amp (especially zero feedback amps) can often use 9% of their available power with no real increase in distortion.
> 
> But there isn't any inherent value in having more power than is needed, provided the amp doesn't see a rise in high order harmonic distortion.


 
  
 Thanks for the clarity.


----------



## PleasantSounds

More info about balanced vs SE can be found in this thread.


----------



## Shetzu

whirlwind said:


> I am using this, but I think any OTL would be a decent match..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## icebear

fltws said:


> Does the availability of extra power headroom, even though you couldn't / wouldn't use all of it all of the time, but only use a small bit occasionally, have any value in a headphone? So the signal isn't continuously banging its head on some electrical limit or ceiling generating distortion of some sort. (Of course exceed the power limitations of the transducer too much for too long should = something fried).


 

 All the extra "headroom" is about as useful going stop and go on a high way in 5.6 ltr V8 pick up truck that get's about 12 miles out of a gallon
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 If you want to explore the total opposite go to Nelson Pass' homebrew site:
 http://www.firstwatt.com/
 The name will indicate _Whatt_ you really need in practical listening. Everything else is just going to slow you/your amp down.
 Once you have experienced a really fast amp, you will ask yourself how stupid it is to carry all the useless parts and completely overbuilt and overspec'd balast around.


----------



## FLTWS

icebear said:


> All the extra "headroom" is about as useful going stop and go on a high way in 5.6 ltr V8 pick up truck that get's about 12 miles out of a gallon
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Bookmarked, thanks.


----------



## beowulf

fltws said:


> I really like the 800 warts and all, I'll get to compare directly against the S probably the end of Sept.
> I'd like your impressions on S.
> 
> Something  I've thought would be interesting is for posters to re-review their phones a full calendar year after purchasing. Maybe even a separate thread for this purpose so as to not confuse first impressions with lasting impressions. Even if it's just a " I stand by my original thoughts" type of comment.


 
  
 Yes, thoughts and opinions tend to change a bit with time, there is indeed a certain homeymoon effect in some cases, and in others you need to learn to love a model.
  
 I have mixed feelings towards the 800S after four days of ownership. They are very good but it all depends on your reference. In my case, my favorite sound is indeed the CD3K and the 800S are remarkably similar. I find this strange since the design is totally different, for a start, they are open, and very open.
  
 I was planning on keeping only one of these two, but am leaning towards the CD3K, which was not the plan at all.
 Reason? Probably because the 800S sound a bit less engaging for me, less involving.  Soundstage has a better width than the CD3K, but by small large margin and height/depth are close. Instrument positioning and separation is close too, perhaps slightly better on the 800S. Mids and highs feel a bit veiled on the 800S. The detail is there, and they are still bright (I like that) but feel a bit thin sometimes, too much airy, the sound is all around you but you don't really feel it as intensely.
  
 I just don't find them satisfying enough to justify the price in my case, having the alternative. Perhaps this opinion will change, I've had perhaps only 4h of listening on them so far. I really like the 800S, but I don't like them enough yet to stop going for the ancient old flaking CD3K repeatedly, while having the nice box of the Senns right next to me.
  
 I've pre-ordered the Sony MDR-Z1R today, and have no reason to keep such three good headphones (assuming the Z1R turns out to be good), so I'll be keeping only one of the three, and the rest will end up in the Sales forum.
 Which one? Will take some time to decide. The Z1R will probably have the better tech and overall construction, the 800S probably has better value for money compared to it, but the old cheaper CD3K is still one of the most enjoyable cans to match my sound preferences.


----------



## FLTWS

beowulf said:


> ... I've pre-ordered the Sony MDR-Z1R today, and have no reason to keep such three good headphones (assuming the Z1R turns out to be good), so I'll be keeping only one of the three, and the rest will end up in the Sales forum.
> Which one? Will take some time to decide. The Z1R will probably have the better tech and overall construction, the 800S probably has better value for money compared to it, but the old cheaper CD3K is still one of the most enjoyable cans to match my sound preferences.


 
  
 Just saw a couple of posts and pics on the Sony and it looks pretty interesting. Someone will eventually put the Sony and Utopia into the ring together, that should be very interesting as well.
  
 Headphone makers seem to be exploding with new tech innovations, getting hard to keep up with them.


----------



## icebear

There is a related thread which asks about long term (at least one year) satisfaction:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/665072/who-has-an-end-game-setup
 And the HD800 doesn't come out too shabby in this poll.
  
 Obviously it's always a snapshot in time but at least it levels off the latest and greatest power hyped headphones
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 New headphones get released almost every other week or major industry show. Once you get the idea that it's more important to personally enjoy listening to one's own favorite music than keeping up with the headphone  "celebrities", you will be much happier having stepped out of the hamster wheel.


----------



## beowulf

fltws said:


> Just saw a couple of posts and pics on the Sony and it looks pretty interesting. Someone will eventually put the Sony and Utopia into the ring together, that should be very interesting as well.
> 
> Headphone makers seem to be exploding with new tech innovations, getting hard to keep up with them.


 
  
 I didn't wait to hear the Utopia for two reasons. First, I really like the "Sony sound" from the old flagships and [perhaps in error] assume the new model will follow that line.
 The second reason is simply value for money. I pre-ordered the Z1R for 2.042 EUR (which might even be less in case the price drops before the delivery on Oct 10th).
  
 The Utopia cost almost exactly TWICE that much. Will they be better? Will they be so good it justifies twice the cost? Really doubt it, but I'm sure we'll get reviews on that later this year.
  


icebear said:


> New headphones get released almost every other week or major industry show. Once you get the idea that it's more important to personally enjoy listening to one's own favorite music than keeping up with the headphone  "celebrities", you will be much happier having stepped out of the hamster wheel.


 
  
 Agree, and I'm not the typical Head-Fi'er on that because I'm happy with finding a single setup that works and not needing a larger collection. One single good model is enough for me, and if it's good enough, I stop looking around for a long time. Ended up with this CD3000/HD800S/Z1R trio now, but I'm definitely going to consolidate this and keep just one. The other two, well, it's a waste, makes sense that someone else enjoys them fully and I recover some gas money. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If we keep chasing the latest fad, we'll be busy all the time. Which isn't necessarily bad if you have the energy/time/pockets, but it's not for me.


----------



## icebear

Looks like somebody just jumped in instead of stepping out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Enjoy


----------



## fapman

beowulf said:


> Yes, thoughts and opinions tend to change a bit with time, there is indeed a certain homeymoon effect in some cases, and in others you need to learn to love a model.
> 
> I have mixed feelings towards the 800S after four days of ownership. They are very good but it all depends on your reference. In my case, my favorite sound is indeed the CD3K and the 800S are remarkably similar. I find this strange since the design is totally different, for a start, they are open, and very open.
> 
> ...


 


 Can i ask what amp/dac setup you use to power the HD800S?

 And I can agree with @icebear, you have just jumped into this addiction. Considering you just ordered 3000$ headphone "just to test them"....


----------



## beowulf

fapman said:


> Can i ask what amp/dac setup you use to power the HD800S?


 
  
 Just the SMLS stack. So an M8 with the VA2 amp. It's not a super punchy set but it should be enough for the 800. 300mW at 300 Omhs or so.
 I'm sure it could sound better with a better amp, but the difference will hardly be night and day.
  


fapman said:


> And I can agree with @icebear, you have just jumped into this addiction. Considering you just ordered 3000$ headphone "just to test them"....


 
  
 In a way, I see what you mean. The HD800S were also a bit of a test. I expected to receive them, listen, go "Whoa, nice" and finally sell the CD3000 and move on. But that didn't happen. Too close. I was left wondering which of the two to keep. Then the Z1R appeared and, well... perhaps this is it! I'm looking for my endgame cans, basically (which the CD3K were, but build quality is not enough to last all these years).
  
 It was less than that btw, 2.043e. If it is good, I'll recover that from selling the 800S and the CD3K. If it sucks I send it back.
 But... if it's once again, kinda at the same level, then I have a problem... three problems actually. Maybe a couple of coin tosses to solve it then.


----------



## BobG55

Quote:



shetzu said:


> I want an OTL amp for my HD800. Do you think Woo Audio WA3 will solve the purpose. Since I would be only using it with my high impedance HD800 this falls in my budget too. If you guys using tube amps could provide me more inputs I would really appreciate it.


 

 Shetzu, this is only my personal opinion but, it's based on trial and error over the years (and lots of $$$ spent needlessly).  The best OTL amp worth buying because it's just about the best one on the market is the Eddie Current Zana Deux = you can save up your money for a year or more and get one & you probably won't purchase another OTL amp for years to come (just my opinion members, please, for those who disagree that's fine I'm not shooting down your choice(s) or opinion(s) ).  
  
 This is from a former Head-fi member who knows what he's talking about (I'm not technically savvy).  I've kept some of his posts to help me understand what's probably good to buy and what I should probably avoid.  I don't look upon him as a Guru or anything like that; as I've stated I've relied on some of his experience and knowledge and so far he's been dead on.  Here's what he has to say about the Zana Deux OTL & HD800 + other OTL amps :
  
 
 
 
 
*Eddie Current Zana Deux -> HD-800*



> *They do tend to have high impedance*


 *Not all of them. Some tube amps have output transformers that get the impedance nice and low, but those are at the expensive end of the market. Which is fair, because output transformers tend towards the expensive. I paid $500 for a pair of Sowters to be shipped over from the UK.*

*It's hard to find a commercial tube amp with output transformers for under $1,000 because of the cost of parts. That's why so many manufacturers produce cheap OTLs and push them on price. If you want to do tubes right, you often have to pay for output transformers.*
  
*Are you familiar with the damping factor?*
*The bare minimum is about 4:1. So if your headphones are 300 Ohms, your amp's output impedance can be no higher than 75 Ohms. If you want really good damping - with excellent control over the bass - then you need to have a damping factor of 8:1 or better. Personally, I won't go below 8:1. So if your headphones are 300 Ohms, you need to have an amp with an output impedance 32.5 Ohms or lower.*

*It's pretty rare to find an OTL with output impedance that low. The only commercially available one is the Eddie Current Zana Deux. IIRC, it runs with a 12 Ohm output impedance. The newer model (I have the old one) has an impedance lowering switch that gets it down to 5 Ohms. What that does is change a resistor to add a little more negative feedback to the circuit, which brings the output impedance down.*

*Most OTLs run with an output impedance of 60 Ohms or greater. Which is why I'm not too crazy about them. You won't hear any of this stuff about output impedance from manufacturers. Most of them know it. But they don't talk about it because that will keep people from buying their amps. They always say something like "suitable for headphones of 32 Ohms or greater" rather than telling you the actual output impedance.*

*Sure, something with a damping factor of 1.5:1 will make sound, but the sound won't be anywhere as tight as it should be, especially in the low end.*
 
 
*I've had the HD-800 since a couple of months after it came out. I've plugged it into all sorts of amps.*

*I prefer it with a Moth Si2A3. Those haven't been in production for awhile, however, the Eddie Current 2A3 amp is pretty similar. The HD-800 is also excellent on the Zana Deux.*

*Generally, I have not liked the HD-800 on solid state. It makes it a little too harsh and glaring. I much prefer it with tubes and it sounds best with the midrange magic of directly heated triodes, like the 2A3, 300B, 45, 76, etc.*

*I'm not a big fan of OTL amps. Most have an excessively high output impedance and that gives you a lousy damping factor. The HD-800 needs a good damping factor to keep the bass tight. If your output impedance is like 120 Ohms (common in a lot of OTLs), then the bass starts getting sloppy.*

*Finally, no, high-end tube amps are not always snake oil. A few are, but the parts get expensive. One I'm putting together is a Pete Millett design that calls for Sowter output transformers. It cost a bit over $500 to have a pair shipped from the UK. In total, that amp is going to be around $1,100-$1,200 in parts and casing. If I were to sell that as a business, it would probably have to cost at least $3,000 to cover labor, taxes, and all the other overhead. *
 
*The only reason OTLs are so common is because they're relatively cheap to put together. Transformer coupled designs are a better match for most headphones, but people can't get past the price tag. You're going to spend $200-$1,000+ just for output transformers. You still have to buy the power transformer. Costs will just go up if you want chokes or interstage transformers. Iron is expensive.*
*There's one exception: Eddie Current's Zana Deux. It is an OTL, but it uses the 6C33C on output, which happens to have a low output impedance. So, in that case, you can have an OTL with excellent grip on the low end. Which is why I bought one and why I think it's such a special amp.*
  
  
  
 So, I'm not saying to take this at face value but I read a lot on the Zana Deux and I've owned many what would be considered damn good amps before & the Zana Deux is not only the best tube amp I've heard/ owned, it's the best amp I've heard/ owned period.  
 Hope this is helpful.  I know to well how expensive this hobby can become because I'm still paying off money I've spent on it.


----------



## Rozenberg

Hey guys, this might be a boring question that has been asked for years but really I'm just looking for people to talk about this.
 After a long pondering I've decided to keep my modded HD800 in favor of a Stax set (hopefully still) so I could relocate the budget to a better amp next month if everything goes well.
 Deciding on an amp is pretty stressful since I'm tired of buying and reselling stuffs.
  
 Anyway I've done some researches and reached some choices as follows;
 - Auralic Taurus MK2 (really like the form factor of this amp, but will need balanced cable & balanced DAC but that can wait)
 - Woo WA2 (saves me the trouble of getting balanced cable/DAC, though kinda doubtful about getting tube amp)
 - Bryston BHA-1 (hmm i dunno)
 - Some Questyle amps maybe
 - Cayin iHA-6 
  
  
 As for Zana Deux... Looks like the best choice but rarely comes up for sale in EU. Even if it does, I don't know how much the used price in EU is.
 Might stretch my budget if I continue my journey of really finding the best amp for it.


----------



## BobG55

rozenberg said:


> Hey guys, this might be a boring question that has been asked for years but really I'm just looking for people to talk about this.
> After a long pondering I've decided to keep my modded HD800 in favor of a Stax set (hopefully still) so I could relocate the budget to a better amp next month if everything goes well.
> Deciding on an amp is pretty stressful since I'm tired of buying and reselling stuffs.
> 
> ...


 
I owned the Auralic Taurus MK2 & the BHA-1 at one time (not the same time) & I personally prefer the Taurus MK2 because of the *depth *of it's soundstage.  
 Hope you find the amp that will make you enjoy your music and make you happy.  Good luck.


----------



## Rozenberg

bobg55 said:


> I owned the Auralic Taurus MK2 & the BHA-1 at one time (not the same time) & I personally prefer the Taurus MK2 because of the *depth *of it's soundstage.
> Hope you find the amp that will make you enjoy your music and make you happy.  Good luck.


 
 Thanks for your impressions. So Taurus mk2 for now then.
 If I have to be more specific, I'm actually looking to sweeten the mids on HD800.
  
 Though I'm still interested in the ZD. If the used price in EU is less than 2000 euro, I might just wait and stretch my budget.


----------



## BobG55

rozenberg said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > I owned the Auralic Taurus MK2 & the BHA-1 at one time (not the same time) & I personally prefer the Taurus MK2 because of the *depth *of it's soundstage.
> ...


 

 Concerning the Zana Deux, in my case I was lucky.  I advertised a _Wanted _post in the _HP Amplifiers for sale _thread on Head-fi & was contacted by an Head-fi member who was about to put his up for sale.   Sometimes that happens; it happened to me a couple of years ago also when I was looking for a Headamp GS-1 = same thing, within a day.  You never know.


----------



## Rozenberg

bobg55 said:


> Concerning the Zana Deux, in my case I was lucky.  I advertised a _Wanted _post in the _HP Amplifiers for sale _thread on Head-fi & was contacted by an Head-fi member who was about to put his up for sale.   Sometimes that happens; it happened to me a couple of years ago also when I was looking for a Headamp GS-1 = same thing, within a day.  You never know.




If I may ask, how much did you pay for yours? For reference.

I can't imagine how hard it'll be to find one in EU but I might try. Else I'll either Taurus or WA2.


----------



## BobG55

rozenberg said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > Concerning the Zana Deux, in my case I was lucky.  I advertised a _Wanted _post in the _HP Amplifiers for sale _thread on Head-fi & was contacted by an Head-fi member who was about to put his up for sale.   Sometimes that happens; it happened to me a couple of years ago also when I was looking for a Headamp GS-1 = same thing, within a day.  You never know.
> ...


 

 I'll PM you.


----------



## Rozenberg

bobg55 said:


> I'll PM you.




Sure. Thanks.


----------



## Shetzu

bobg55 said:


> Shetzu, this is only my personal opinion but, it's based on trial and error over the years (and lots of $$$ spent needlessly).  The best OTL amp worth buying because it's just about the best one on the market is the Eddie Current Zana Deux = you can save up your money for a year or more and get one & you probably won't purchase another OTL amp for years to come (just my opinion members, please, for those who disagree that's fine I'm not shooting down your choice(s) or opinion(s) ).
> 
> This is from a former Head-fi member who knows what he's talking about (I'm not technically savvy).  I've kept some of his posts to help me understand what's probably good to buy and what I should probably avoid.  I don't look upon him as a Guru or anything like that; as I've stated I've relied on some of his experience and knowledge and so far he's been dead on.  Here's what he has to say about the Zana Deux OTL & HD800 + other OTL amps :
> 
> ...


 
 Wow. Thank you so much *BobG55* for taking your time out and providing me excellent inputs on the Eddie Current OTL. However even if I save 4 3-4 years I cannot reach that amount of $2389 to buy this amp. It is way beyond my budget  and twice the cost of my HD800. I know It would be an end game amp for me but as said I cannot afford this one. I decided to get into an entry level tube amp to give me the tube sound and that is the Woo Audio WA6 with upgraded Sophia Princess tubes and other upgrade driver tubes for the start.  Cheers


----------



## BobG55

shetzu said:


> Wow. Thank you so much *BobG55* for taking your time out and providing me excellent inputs on the Eddie Current OTL. However even if I save 4 3-4 years I cannot reach that amount of $2389 to buy this amp. It is way beyond my budget  and twice the cost of my HD800. I know It would be an end game amp for me but as said I cannot afford this one. I decided to get into an entry level tube amp to give me the tube sound and that is the Woo Audio WA6 with upgraded Sophia Princess tubes and other upgrade driver tubes for the start.  Cheers


 
 What I should have specified is that I bought mine _used _so I didn't pay the cost of a new one & was very lucky to find one also.  I'm sure you'll enjoy your new amp which is all that counts in the end.


----------



## Evshrug

bobg55 said:


> ...
> This is from a former Head-fi member who knows what he's talking about (I'm not technically savvy).  I've kept some of his posts to help me understand what's probably good to buy and what I should probably avoid.
> ...




Who is the source of this review? A quote with no source is interesting but ultimately doesn't hold much weight on its own.

I've actually heard good things about the Eddie Current amps from people that have heard them, and would like to hear them one day for myself! I also agree that dampening factor makes a difference, but it's not the be-all-end-all consideration factor in amp design and the final sound quality result. The designer of the Objective 2 amp gained a sizable following for bashing other manufacturers on the dampening factor of their amps, but he also is now a "former head-fi" member for trying to drive traffic to his personal site. The bigger issue is he concentrated on the trees and largely missed the forest... 

A high dampening factor matters for headphones with a very dynamic impedance curve across the frequency spectrum (like the Sennheiser HD800 and others, but particularly with the HD650 and HD600, and not so much with planar magnetic headphones or even dynamic headphones with linear impedance curves). If dampening factor was the most significant issue for amping, an O2 would be a perfect match for every headphone... But despite the O2 having a near-zero output impedance (and plenty of power for the HD800), the majority of impressions for that combo state that the sound is dry, overly analytical, and sometimes even irritating to listen to.

I have seen so many amps with low output impedance across all types of amps, that I don't believe that other "former member's" bold claim that the EC Zana Deux is the "only commercially available one [OTL amp with low output impedance]." If the Zana Deux is a great sounding pairing, there's more to it than Output Z (and OTL design), and it doesn't stand alone as a good amp option among the MicroZOTL2.0, the DNA Stratus, ALO Studio 6, and amps from Questyle, Cavalli, Fostex, Wells Audio, and others. More impressions on Eddie Current designs would be great, because there aren't many reviews and very low quantity of used ones show up for sale.

Truth is, there's A LOT of competitive amps out there that will give that "special feeling" when paired with the HD800. Manufacturers will (and should!) describe how product features benefit consumers, but personal preference will still win the day.


----------



## BobG55

evshrug said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


 

 Is name doesn't start with M & he doesn't work for Eddie Current.  Also as I plainly indicated the following in my initial post : *"just my opinion members, please, for those who disagree that's fine I'm not shooting down your choice(s) or opinion(s)" *in order to avoid a response like yours.  If you find other amps just as good or even better or disagree with what this former member wrote overall, I'm perfectly fine with that.


----------



## Evshrug

bobg55 said:


> Is name doesn't start with M & he doesn't work for Eddie Current.  Also as I plainly indicated in my initial post : *"just my opinion members, please, for those who disagree that's fine I'm not shooting down your choice(s) or opinion(s)" *in order to avoid a response like yours.  If you find other amps just as good or even better or disagree with what this former member wrote overall, I'm perfectly fine with that.




Oh, I'm not shooting you down (and don't feel like you shot me down), you like the amp (Cool!), it's just this other former member states a lot of reasons why he/she likes the Zana Deux (cool) and why others might like it (valid), all I'm saying is there are also a lot of other great choices too and many/some other manufacturers take stuff like dampening factor and things the Zana Deux does not address like reducing/eliminating negative feedback. Just saying, there is no single objectively "best" amp.

The end result is what matters: enjoying the music and amp. Glad you do and I'm sure others will! No reason to avoid my post unless you just didn't want to hear that there are many options (including the Zana Deux).


----------



## BobG55

*Quote from Evshrug : *
  
 No reason to avoid my post unless you just didn't want to hear that there are many options (including the Zana Deux).


----------



## longbowbbs

My personal preference for the HD800's is generally a tube amp. I love my ALO Studio Six SET with them. Also my Cary SLI-80 works wonders with Sennheiser. I have some time with the Zana and I also found very good synergy with the HD800's.  
  
 Another lesser cost amp would be the Decware CSP3 Triode OTL. I really enjoyed my Decware gear when I owned the CSP and the Taboo MK II. 
  
 The HD800's also sound good with my Simaudio Moon 430HA but I tend to spend more time with my LCD-X's when using solid state.


----------



## Evshrug

bobg55 said:


> *Quote from Evshrug : *
> No reason to avoid my post unless you just didn't want to hear that there are many options (including the Zana Deux).






> those who disagree that's fine I'm not shooting down your choice(s) or opinion(s)



I don't disagree with your opinion but you want me to be silent? Huh. Oh well.


Anyway, Thanks longbowbbs!

On another note, I tend to use my HD800 quite near my amp (currently), anyone have suggestions for an inexpensive place to chop my stock HD800 cable in two, reterminate one end, and make the remaining length into a ponytail/extension cable? I've read rumors that internally the HD800 cable is basically balanced till it reaches the 1/4" plug and the + cables connected into a common ground, if this is true I'd like to put XLR connectors pretty much in the middle of the stock cable.


----------



## DavidA

evshrug said:


> I don't disagree with your opinion but you want me to be silent? Huh. Oh well.
> 
> 
> Anyway, Thanks longbowbbs!
> ...


 
 You might be better off just getting a totally new cable and extension but the stock cable is balanced (4 wires) until the 1/4" plug so you can do the XLR connectors.  The stock wires are 32g (IIRC) and most after market cables are made with 24-28g wires and are usually pretty good quality and cost less than the stock cable.


----------



## Rozenberg

evshrug said:


> and it doesn't stand alone as a good amp option among the MicroZOTL2.0, the DNA Stratus, ALO Studio 6, and amps from Questyle, Cavalli, Fostex, Wells Audio, and others. More impressions on Eddie Current designs would be great, because there aren't many reviews and very low quantity of used ones show up for sale.




Great, thanks for mentioning those amps. I'm easily tempted and already put Stratus in my consideration list.



> but personal preference will still win the day.




True. To be honest, I've thought of selling my HD800 for an Ether, HEX, some Staxen or Elear because I used to be bothered by what people said. Most around me said the HD800 is meh, but in the end I ultimately decided to keep them (except if there's a really good deal of 009 lol).


----------



## Me x3

rozenberg said:


> If I have to be more specific, I'm actually looking to sweeten the mids on HD800.


 
  
 Everytime I think my HD800's mids should be sweeter I simply pick the Tesla T1.1
 Problem solved. At least for me.
  
 Also cheaper than most high end uber amps and more fun as well.


----------



## Hansotek

me x3 said:


> Everytime I think my HD800's mids should be sweeter I simply pick the Tesla T1.1
> Problem solved. At least for me.
> 
> Also cheaper than most high end uber amps and more fun as well.




That's pretty subjective. I find the T1's mids to be fairly boring and the HD800 to be far more engaging (I own both, BTW - just pointing out how personal it is because I feel the exact opposite way).


----------



## longbowbbs

hansotek said:


> me x3 said:
> 
> 
> > Everytime I think my HD800's mids should be sweeter I simply pick the Tesla T1.1
> ...


 
 +1... To each his own though.


----------



## Rozenberg

me x3 said:


> Everytime I think my HD800's mids should be sweeter I simply pick the Tesla T1.1
> Problem solved. At least for me.
> 
> Also cheaper than most high end uber amps and more fun as well.


 
 Not really in mood for another pair.
 I've lived with 3 pairs of headphones twice and only the HD800 gets all the head time.
  
 Also, big high end amps make good desk decoration too.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Vali is the cheap and easy to make them sing. I should a/b vali and mjolnir


----------



## Me x3

hansotek said:


> That's pretty subjective. I find the T1's mids to be fairly boring and the HD800 to be far more engaging (I own both, BTW - just pointing out how personal it is because I feel the exact opposite way).


 

 Everything related with our perception of sound is subjective, and even objectively speaking, your recordings might differ very much from mine thus that's something to consider as well. That said, let's try to put this in more objective terms.
  
 Here you have measurements for my HD800 (newer version with thicker pads) vs late Beyerdynamic T1.1
  
 Pink trace is HD800 (sn.227xx)
 Green trace is T1.1 (sn.168xx)

  
 As it can be seen in the graph, the Tesla T1.1 is significantly warmer than the HD800 and thus the midrange is normally perceived as more cohessive and full-bodied.
 There's a very slight hump in the 2kHz region in the FR of the T1 that's very AKG-like but not as pronounced, this brings some vocals to the front vs the more distant and roomier upper midrange of the Sennheiser HD800. Then there's a big raise in HD800's frequency response centered at 6kHz which is very representative of HD800's tuning, it brings some details to the front but it's also responsible for the steely kind of sound quality for which the HD800 is always blamed. The Tesla T1.1 stays closer to the 1kHz mark in this area and thus it provides a sweeter presentation that's less prone to emphasize sibilance. Lastly, there's a raise in the T1's frequency response centered at 8kHz that's responsible for the sharper presentation that's very representative of the Beyerdynamic house sound.


----------



## Clear Water

evshrug said:


> I don't disagree with your opinion but you want me to be silent? Huh. Oh well.


 
 I suspect he was referring to himself, that he will now keep silent since you're not really arguing with each other.


----------



## thefitz

I had a T1.1 and sold it because I never listened to it after getting my HD800.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

thefitz said:


> I had a T1.1 and sold it because I never listened to it after getting my HD800.


 
 that's the typical upgrade path


----------



## DavidA

thefitz said:


> I had a T1.1 and sold it because I never listened to it after getting my HD800.


 
 I kept my T1.1, there are some times when I just like it for a slightly fun signature over the HD-800 which can be too analytical for me.


----------



## Me x3

davida said:


> I kept my T1.1, there are some times when I just like it for a slightly fun signature over the HD-800 which can be too analytical for me.


 

 I agree.
  
 T1.1 and HD800 have quite a different tuning and thus I think it's more a matter of preference.
  
 On the other hand HD800 and DT880 Pro have very similar tuning with HD800 being significantly more capable technically speaking. I think HD800 is a straight forward upgrade from DT880 for most genres except maybe rock/metal where DT880 still performs better to my ears.


----------



## Hansotek

davida said:


> I kept my T1.1, there are some times when I just like it for a slightly fun signature over the HD-800 which can be too analytical for me.




Where are all these fun T1's? I want to hear one, they sound fantastic!


----------



## DavidA

hansotek said:


> Where are all these fun T1's? I want to hear one, they sound fantastic!


 
 All over the place hiding like pokemon (just kidding), my son has mine with him at the moment but I was thinking of getting a second one and let him keep the one he has, I got it used for $375, only had to do the mini-XLR connectors.


----------



## Hansotek

davida said:


> All over the place hiding like pokemon (just kidding), my son has mine with him at the moment but I was thinking of getting a second one and let him keep the one he has, I got it used for $375, only had to do the mini-XLR connectors.




I gotta believe there is some hardcore production variation going on or something. I can dismiss a certain amount of dissonance as subjective opinion, but the gap between first-hand accounts, various reviews and even the measurements themselves is too varied to discount:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT1.pdf

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT1SN3964.pdf

I'm being honest when I say I want to hear what a good one is supposed to sound like, because a lot of things about the T1 don't really add up.


----------



## thefitz

I quite liked my T1. Just not more than my HD800 or any of my Audezes


----------



## DavidA

hansotek said:


> I gotta believe there is some hardcore production variation going on or something. I can dismiss a certain amount of dissonance as subjective opinion, but the gap between first-hand accounts, various reviews and even the measurements themselves is too varied to discount:
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT1.pdf
> 
> ...


 
 I've only heard 4 different T1g1's so far, all sounded the same but audio memory isn't that great so there could have been some differences that I was not able to notice.
  
 What I like about the T1 is for genres like pop, rock and classic rock is the bass is a little more rounded out and the sound stage is not spaced out too much like the HD-800, and since most of the recordings of these genres are not that great the T1 presents them more to my liking than the HD-800 which is too detailed for me to enjoy the music, a little like the HD-600 vs HD-650, where the HD-650 is the more forgiving of the two.
  
 If I'm listening to well recorded/mastered classical, blues or jazz then the HD-800 is usually my choice over the T1 90% of the time.


----------



## Joeybgood

I know I have heard that the sound signature of the later edition HD800 and the earlier versions differed some how but I don't recall what the difference was/is. I am looking at a pair with S/N 00563 so I have to imagine they are from 2009. How would these differ from the 10000 and later versions? Tks


----------



## Me x3

joeybgood said:


> I know I have heard that the sound signature of the later edition HD800 and the earlier versions differed some how but I don't recall what the difference was/is. I am looking at a pair with S/N 00563 so I have to imagine they are from 2009. How would these differ from the 10000 and later versions? Tks


 

 A little bit more sub-bass, the treble peak is 1 or 2dB higher and centered at 6.5kHz instead of 6kHz and there's less treble extension but still good enough.
 Very subtle differences.


----------



## Joeybgood

me x3 said:


> A little bit more sub-bass, the treble peak is 1 or 2dB higher and centered at 6.5kHz instead of 6kHz and there's less treble extension but still good enough.
> Very subtle differences.


 
 thanks.. so if you had the choice you would go with the later release version?


----------



## Me x3

joeybgood said:


> thanks.. so if you had the choice you would go with the later release version?


 

 Personal preferences play a big role here.
 I would probably pick the later because I only use my HD800 with top class recordings.
 The former is probably a slightly better all-rounder, without being a great all-rounder anyway.
 Pairing is also important, if you'll use a very analytic SS rig then an early HD800 might pair better.
  
 You can read about them here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared#user_HD800


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

early makes a better companion to my cherished K1000. Chamber comparison coming soon.


----------



## Joeybgood

me x3 said:


> Personal preferences play a big role here.
> I would probably pick the later because I only use my HD800 with top class recordings.
> The former is probably a slightly better all-rounder, without being a great all-rounder anyway.
> Pairing is also important, if you'll use a very analytic SS rig then an early HD800 might pair better.
> ...


 
 I was actually planning to pair it with my Woo WA22 but I also have the Master 9 so I'll go with (and both my DACs are hybrids) whichever has the best syngergy.


----------



## MikePio

joeybgood said:


> I know I have heard that the sound signature of the later edition HD800 and the earlier versions differed some how but I don't recall what the difference was/is. I am looking at a pair with S/N 00563 so I have to imagine they are from 2009. How would these differ from the 10000 and later versions? Tks


 
  
 I have heard both. Every HD800 comes with its own frequency response graph, so not every headphone is obviously identical, these individual differences has more to do with the subtle changes (if any) than the sonic differences between early to late models of the HD800. I would just buy the ones you can get the best deal on and are in good condition. In my opinion the differences between early to late models is a myth.


----------



## Joeybgood

mikepio said:


> I have heard both. Every HD800 comes with its own frequency response graph, so not every headphone is obviously identical, these individual differences has more to do with the subtle changes (if any) than the sonic differences between early to late models of the HD800. I would just buy the ones you can get the best deal on and are in good condition. In my opinion the differences between early to late models is a myth.


 
 Tks.! that is EXACTLY what I DID! :-D


----------



## MikePio

joeybgood said:


> Tks.! that is EXACTLY what I DID! :-D


 
  
 Enjoy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 In my opinion the HD800 is a spectacular headphone if not a bit flawed. It is a diamond in the rough. Give it what it needs and it sparkles and shines, stunning and brilliant.


----------



## Me x3

mikepio said:


> I have heard both. Every HD800 comes with its own frequency response graph, so not every headphone is obviously identical, these individual differences has more to do with the subtle changes (if any) than the sonic differences between early to late models of the HD800. I would just buy the ones you can get the best deal on and are in good condition. In my opinion the differences between early to late models is a myth.


 
 It's not a myth, earlier HD800 had thinner earpads, this is easly measurable, as well as its effects.
 Sennheiser plots differ more than third party plots in my experience. HD800's consistency is impressive as well as its driver matching.


----------



## Fegefeuer

me x3 said:


> It's not a myth, earlier HD800 had thinner earpads, this is easly measurable, as well as its effects.
> Sennheiser plots differ more than third party plots in my experience. HD800's consistency is impressive as well as its driver matching.


 
  
 Which below S/N are we talking about here?


----------



## MikePio

me x3 said:


> It's not a myth, earlier HD800 had thinner earpads, this is easly measurable, as well as its effects.
> Sennheiser plots differ more than third party plots in my experience. HD800's consistency is impressive as well as its driver matching.


 
  
 I doubt in a blind test you would consistently tell the difference between the old and new models (I could not). I gave practical advice and still stand by it.


----------



## Me x3

fegefeuer said:


> Which below S/N are we talking about here?


 

 I don't have the exact number, but 08xxx still had thinner earpads.
 Mine is 22xxx and has the newer ones, I know 30xxx pairs and they have the new ones as well.
  

  
 My HD800

  
 Early HD800 measures 2cm instead of 2.5cm


----------



## Me x3

mikepio said:


> I doubt in a blind test you would consistently tell the difference between the old and new models (I could not). I gave practical advice and still stand by it.


 
 Feel free to doubt. 
  
 Blind testing is flawed because you can not compare A with B on a blind test.
 You can only compare B with a recent memory-created version of A, and our memory is not that good for that task.
  
 I can tell you 20 single digit numbers and then ask you to tell them to me, best chances are you won't be able to do it.
 On the other hand, I'm pretty sure you can remember your phone number and many other phone numbers as well.
  
 Sometimes, extended exposure to certain headphones can show subtle differences in a way that blind testing won't be able to expose.
 It should be said, that blind testing is very person dependent as much as our memory capabilities.
  
 Beyond giving practical advice you said you think the difference is a myth, that's not the case and that's why I've quoted you.
 With regards to your practical advice
  
*MikePio*


> I would just buy the ones you can get the best deal on and are in good condition.


 
  
 I'm not against it, more so I do think that placement can often play a bigger role than the subtle (and real) differences discussed here.


----------



## MikePio

me x3 said:


> Feel free to doubt.
> 
> Blind testing is flawed because you can not compare A with B on a blind test.
> You can only compare B with a recent memory-created version of A, and our memory is not that good for that task.
> ...


 
  
 I think it is pretty obvious and logical that you cannot compare two headphones at the exact same precise moment in time, so we have to compare within the given reality we live in. That is how you test if you like certain headphones right? You listen to your favorite headphone "A" and compare it (obviously by your memory or association of the sound) to headphone "B". Normally the differences between headphones of a different make is noticeable enough for us to make a decision on which one we would like to listen to.  Either way, I respectfully disagree with you. I am almost certainty positive you would not tell the difference between 0.5 cm of padding between the HD800's. If you want to argue that blind testing is flawed, that is fine and it is your opinion.


----------



## jibzilla

I don't think you can blind test headphones. What are you going to do? Cover the headphones up in tissue paper? Maybe have someone put the headphones on your head for you?


----------



## MikePio

jibzilla said:


> I don't think you can blind test headphones. What are you going to do? Cover the headphones up in tissue paper? Maybe have someone put the headphones on your head for you?


 
  
 I would totally agree with you, but I was referring to the old and new HD800's.


----------



## Me x3

mikepio said:


> I think it is pretty obvious and logical that you cannot compare two headphones at the exact same precise moment in time, so we have to compare within the given reality we live in. That is how you test if you like certain headphones right? You listen to your favorite headphone "A" and compare it (obviously by your memory or association of the sound) to headphone "B". Normally the differences between headphones of a different make is noticeable enough for us to make a decision on which one we would like to listen to.  Either way, I respectfully disagree with you. I am almost certainty positive you would not tell the difference between 0.5 cm of padding between the HD800's. If you want to argue that blind testing is flawed, that is fine and it is your opinion.


 

 1- It's not my opinion, blind testing is flawed for the reasons I've explained before. Period.
 If you think blind testing is perfect then you are wrong and that's it.
  
 2+2=3 is wrong
 2+2=4 is fact
  
 2- You are the only one wondering if I can or cannot tell the difference between new and old HD800 (no one knows why)
 Someone was asking for the difference among these models, so I've gave him the answer based on objective information (ie. third party measurements)


----------



## MikePio

me x3 said:


> 1- It's not my opinion, blind testing is flawed for the reasons I've explained before. Period.
> If you think blind testing is perfect then you are wrong and that's it.
> 
> 2+2=3 is wrong
> ...


 
  
 1- Calm down. 
  
 2- It is an opinion. 
  
 3- Thank you for your complex mathematical example, next time you might want to simplify that further.
  
 4- I am assuming the person was referring to sonic changes between the HD800's (old and new) and so from personal experience hearing both I could not tell an audible difference, irregardless of your "third party measurements".


----------



## eeagle

mikepio said:


> I think it is pretty obvious and logical that you cannot compare two headphones at the exact same precise moment in time, so we have to compare within the given reality we live in. That is how you test if you like certain headphones right? You listen to your favorite headphone "A" and compare it (obviously by your memory or association of the sound) to headphone "B". Normally the differences between headphones of a different make is noticeable enough for us to make a decision on which one we would like to listen to.  Either way, I respectfully disagree with you. I am almost certainty positive you would not tell the difference between 0.5 cm of padding between the HD800's. If you want to argue that blind testing is flawed, that is fine and it is your opinion.


 

 I would totally have agreed with you a short time ago, but my recent experience with pads on my Fostex T50RPmk3 HPs has shown just how important ear cushion material is in the audio equation and just one of the factors in the overall HP design.  Many including myself would like the T50RP to be more comfy, but the comfy pads (wider, deeper, or softer) totally destroy the amazing sound.
  
 This is the first I have heard about differences in the HD800 cushions, mine are fairly new 45xxx, but I can certainly believe it could make a difference in the sound signature.
  
 And yes, I have been doing a lot of A - B listening lately.


----------



## MikePio

eeagle said:


> I would totally have agreed with you a short time ago, but my recent experience with pads on my Fostex T50RPmk3 HPs has shown just how important ear cushion material is in the audio equation and just one of the factors in the overall HP design.  Many including myself would like the T50RP to be more comfy, but the comfy pads (wider, deeper, or softer) totally destroy the amazing sound.
> 
> This is the first I have heard about differences in the HD800 cushions, mine are fairly new 45xxx, but I can certainly believe it could make a difference in the sound signature.
> 
> And yes, I have been doing a lot of A - B listening lately.


 
  
 I recently changed my earpads on the DT150's and there was a change in the sound signature. I was referring specifically to the HD800's. I could not hear a sonic difference from the 0.5cm pad difference.


----------



## Rozenberg

I replaced the pads of my HD800 some months ago and did not hear any differences. I don't think pads make any significant change on the HD800. Totally different from pads rolling on my HE-4 where sound changed pretty drastic.

as for difference between old vs new, long time ago I brought my HD800 SN02xxxx to the Sennheiser showroom where they had another HD800 SN13xxx connected to a HDVD800.
No difference I could notice. Granted, the testing environment wasn't optimal but hey what else could I do.
Just sharing experience.


----------



## Me x3

rozenberg said:


> I replaced the pads of my HD800 some months ago and did not hear any differences. I don't think pads make any significant change on the HD800. Totally different from pads rolling on my HE-4 where sound changed pretty drastic.
> 
> as for difference between old vs new, long time ago I brought my HD800 SN02xxxx to the Sennheiser showroom where they had another HD800 SN13xxx connected to a HDVD800.
> No difference I could notice. Granted, the testing environment wasn't optimal but hey what else could I do.
> Just sharing experience.


 

 Are you sure the HD800 SN13xxx had the older pads?


----------



## Rozenberg

me x3 said:


> Are you sure the HD800 SN13xxx had the older pads?




nope, I was talking about the old vs new serials. As for pads, it was about my years old earpads vs new earpads.
Tbh I never know there's the 0.5cm difference.
Are you sure the pads on older serials just haven't shrunk because of age?
Because my stock pair of pads have shrunk considerably much which made it feel thin.


----------



## BobG55

rozenberg said:


> I replaced the pads of my HD800 some months ago and did not hear any differences. I don't think pads make any significant change on the HD800. Totally different from pads rolling on my HE-4 where sound changed pretty drastic.
> 
> as for difference between old vs new, long time ago I brought my HD800 SN02xxxx to the Sennheiser showroom where they had another HD800 SN13xxx connected to a HDVD800.
> No difference I could notice. Granted, the testing environment wasn't optimal but hey what else could I do.
> Just sharing experience.


 

 Interesting.  Just out of curiosity Rozenberg how old would you say the SN02xxxx series is ?  or to put it another way, do you remember which year you bought your HD800 ?  The reason I'm asking is I'm considering buying a used pair with SN 021300.  I'm not sure how old they would be.  Thanks.


----------



## Me x3

rozenberg said:


> nope, I was talking about the old vs new serials. As for pads, it was about my years old earpads vs new earpads.
> Tbh I never know there's the 0.5cm difference.
> Are you sure the pads on older serials just haven't shrunk because of age?
> Because my stock pair of pads have shrunk considerably much which made it feel thin.


 

 Yes, the difference is clear.
 It's not that the earpads go flatter, that's possible with age.
 Newer pads are thicker all around, not necessarily deeper (the opening is smaller as a result)


----------



## Rozenberg

bobg55 said:


> Interesting.  Just out of curiosity Rozenberg how old would you say the SN02xxxx series is ?  or to put it another way, do you remember which year you bought your HD800 ?  The reason I'm asking is I'm considering buying a used pair with SN 021300.  I'm not sure how old they would be.  Thanks.


 
 Unsure about the age but I would say 5-6 years old. Bought it from an old man who didn't remember when he bought it too and apparently he tried to perform mods on the unit so well... it's in pretty beaten up condition. Nonetheless they still work damn fine.
  


me x3 said:


> Yes, the difference is clear.
> It's not that the earpads go flatter, that's possible with age.
> Newer pads are thicker all around, not necessarily deeper (the opening is smaller as a result)


 
 Oh now I know what you mean.
 Well, I still have my old pads and might try to measure them after I return.


----------



## P+D-MI

Interesting, I have an older pair sn 00470 and just bought brand new pads for them. The old pads measure the same as the new ones. You do realize the pads measure different depending on which side you measure. 2.5cm on the straight side. 2 cm on the curved side on both sets of pads.


----------



## Joeybgood

p+d-mi said:


> Interesting, I have an older pair sn 00470 and just bought brand new pads for them. The old pads measure the same as the new ones. You do realize the pads measure different depending on which side you measure. 2.5cm on the straight side. 2 cm on the curved side on both sets of pads.


 
 I would be very interested in your impressions on any sonic differences between your older pair and the newer one. I just picked up a pair s/n 00563 and would imagine they are from the same ''run'. I had a pair awhile back that was 10000+ series but I have no faith that my recollection of their sound signature will be helpful when I listen to the current(incoming) older version. Tks


----------



## Joeybgood

p+d-mi said:


> Interesting, I have an older pair sn 00470 and just bought brand new pads for them. The old pads measure the same as the new ones. You do realize the pads measure different depending on which side you measure. 2.5cm on the straight side. 2 cm on the curved side on both sets of pads.


 
 my apologies.. I misread your post. You picked up new pads, not a new set of cans. nm..lol


----------



## zimzim2001

bobg55 said:


> Interesting.  Just out of curiosity Rozenberg how old would you say the SN02xxxx series is ?  or to put it another way, do you remember which year you bought your HD800 ?  The reason I'm asking is I'm considering buying a used pair with SN 021300.  I'm not sure how old they would be.  Thanks.


 

 My pair is SN 025XXX, purchased new 10/13.


----------



## BobG55

zimzim2001 said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting.  Just out of curiosity Rozenberg how old would you say the SN02xxxx series is ?  or to put it another way, do you remember which year you bought your HD800 ?  The reason I'm asking is I'm considering buying a used pair with SN 021300.  I'm not sure how old they would be.  Thanks.
> ...


 

 Thanks, zimzim2001 that helps.  Much appreciated.


----------



## eeagle

So is anyone wanting a new set of cushions, complete with headphone?
  
 The stock is back at FocusCamera and $899 is about as low as I've seen them.


----------



## MikePio

eeagle said:


> So is anyone wanting a new set of cushions, complete with headphone?
> 
> The stock is back at FocusCamera and $899 is about as low as I've seen them.


 
  
 Wow, that is an incredible price! I have seen them go for more on Ebay used... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Will refer a friend who was on the fence about getting these, thanks.


----------



## Peti

eeagle said:


> So is anyone wanting a new set of cushions, complete with headphone?
> 
> The stock is back at FocusCamera and $899 is about as low as I've seen them.


 

 Now that's a deal! I wish people on the For Sale Forum who sell their HD800 would see this! Some of the headphones over there go for crazy ridiculous prices!!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Listened to HD800 for the first time after a week of K1000, with occasional HE-6. It's like coming home to a spouse after an illicit week in Verbier or Milan.


----------



## whirlwind

eeagle said:


> So is anyone wanting a new set of cushions, complete with headphone?
> 
> The stock is back at FocusCamera and $899 is about as low as I've seen them.




Considering the prices of some of the more recent flag ship headphones.

This is such a darn good deal.

Amp these right and you have a very nice rig for a reasonable amount.

I could not imagine the HD800 not being in my rotation.

Definitely one of my best purchases......*ever.*

SN: 19060


----------



## Rozenberg

I wasn't actually going to buy HD800 as my flagship because I had demoed em several times at first and wasn't impressed. But ended up buying one on a whim and now it stays 
Though there were times when I felt like selling them but in the end I learned to love them again.
Now I know I haven't heard their best yet but am planning to do so, hopefully soon.


----------



## apmusson

rozenberg said:


> I wasn't actually going to buy HD800 as my flagship because I had demoed em several times at first and wasn't impressed. But ended up buying one on a whim and now it stays
> Though there were times when I felt like selling them but in the end I learned to love them again.
> Now I know I haven't heard their best yet but am planning to do so, hopefully soon.




Same here. I demoed the hd800 shorty after release and wasn't impressed. I have continued to see reviewer after reviewer mention then as one of the best dynamic headphone over the last seven years and when the HD800s came out I decided to pick up a second pair of original HD800 to try for an extended period.

I am a convert. With my Mojo (and also my home tube setup) the HD800 are my reference headphone. I am listening to my music collection again with 'new ears'


----------



## Rozenberg

apmusson said:


> Same here. I demoed the hd800 shorty after release and wasn't impressed. I have continued to see reviewer after reviewer mention then as one of the best dynamic headphone over the last seven years and when the HD800s came out I decided to pick up a second pair of original HD800 to try for an extended period.
> 
> I am a convert. With my Mojo (and also my home tube setup) the HD800 are my reference headphone. I am listening to my music collection again with 'new ears'




The moment I listened to my old music collection, I fell in love with it once again. Though that means my Stax purchase was kinda a waste of money... I was going to return to estats but too much hassle.


Speaking of Mojo, I've tried the Mojo with HD800 and while it sounded nice, it seemed to push the Mojo almost to its limit since the owner said "Wow it lights blue" which might mean almost full volume.
Considering that, I wonder how about Hugo. Is there anyone here who pairs their HD800 with Hugo? It looks convenient so I'm a bit interested.


----------



## DavidA

rozenberg said:


> The moment I listened to my old music collection, I fell in love with it once again. Though that means my Stax purchase was kinda a waste of money... I was going to return to estats but too much hassle.
> 
> 
> Speaking of Mojo, I've tried the Mojo with HD800 and while it sounded nice, it seemed to push the Mojo almost to its limit since the owner said "Wow it lights blue" which might mean almost full volume.
> Considering that, I wonder how about Hugo. Is there anyone here who pairs their HD800 with Hugo? It looks convenient so I'm a bit interested.




Love the Hugo/HD-800 pairing, a fellow head-fier stopped by last week and I liked the pairing a lot.


----------



## apmusson

rozenberg said:


> The moment I listened to my old music collection, I fell in love with it once again. Though that means my Stax purchase was kinda a waste of money... I was going to return to estats but too much hassle.
> 
> 
> Speaking of Mojo, I've tried the Mojo with HD800 and while it sounded nice, it seemed to push the Mojo almost to its limit since the owner said "Wow it lights blue" which might mean almost full volume.
> Considering that, I wonder how about Hugo. Is there anyone here who pairs their HD800 with Hugo? It looks convenient so I'm a bit interested.




When I use the Mojo it is either double light blue or double dark blue with HD800. This is just over half volume I think. I am auditioning Hugo, Hugo TT and Dave next month so am very interested in the differences. What I have found is that HD800 can be detailed, bass light or bass heavy depending on amplification and upstream components. My valve amp sounds lovely but can blur some detail.


----------



## JaZZ

apmusson said:


> rozenberg said:
> 
> 
> > I wasn't actually going to buy HD800 as my flagship because I had demoed em several times at first and wasn't impressed. But ended up buying one on a whim and now it stays
> ...




Since I changed the cable to a Black Dragon, my (modified and equalized) HD 800 is getting more use again. The sound is not clearly better in the sense of more accurate, but definitely smoother and easier to listen to, also more coherent. I had to adjust the EQ settings quite a bit (in favor of the upper treble) and after a while had to adjust it half the way down again, which I attribute to some sort of «cable burn-in». 




rozenberg said:


> apmusson said:
> 
> 
> > Same here. I demoed the hd800 shorty after release and wasn't impressed. I have continued to see reviewer after reviewer mention then as one of the best dynamic headphone over the last seven years and when the HD800s came out I decided to pick up a second pair of original HD800 to try for an extended period.
> ...




Double blue is nothing special, even double dark blue or double purple. Far from straining the output stage.


----------



## Rozenberg

apmusson said:


> When I use the Mojo it is either double light blue or double dark blue with HD800. This is just over half volume I think. I am auditioning Hugo, Hugo TT and Dave next month so am very interested in the differences. What I have found is that HD800 can be detailed, bass light or bass heavy depending on amplification and upstream components. My valve amp sounds lovely but can blur some detail.




Yup, that's the volume. Same when I demoed the Mojo.
True about amplification, which is why I'm currently looking for a great one. It's just... All the good stuffs are in the US...




jazz said:


> Since I changed the cable to a Black Dragon, my (modified and equalized) HD 800 is getting more use again. The sound is not clearly better in the sense of more accurate, but definitely smoother and easier to listen to, also more coherent. I had to adjust the EQ settings quite a bit (in favor of the upper treble) and after a while had to adjust it half the way down again, which I attribute to some sort of «cable burn-in».
> 
> Double blue is nothig special, even double dark blue or double purple. Far from straining the output stage.




My HD800 is SD modded and that totally kills the treble peak 
Although I didn't really have problem with treble, but it's better.

Also thanks for the info. I don't own a Mojo so the colors confuse me.


----------



## Shetzu

rozenberg said:


> The moment I listened to my old music collection, I fell in love with it once again. Though that means my Stax purchase was kinda a waste of money... I was going to return to estats but too much hassle.
> 
> 
> Speaking of Mojo, I've tried the Mojo with HD800 and while it sounded nice, it seemed to push the Mojo almost to its limit since the owner said "Wow it lights blue" which might mean almost full volume.
> Considering that, I wonder how about Hugo. Is there anyone here who pairs their HD800 with Hugo? It looks convenient so I'm a bit interested.




Hello. I too am a mojo Hd-800 combo user and like the combination pretty good. Yes some songs does reach the blue colour on your volume buttons but I feel upto green for my personal taste is pretty good for this lovely cute musical Dac the Mojo. I love it.
I did demo the Hugo with Hd 800 at a friends place and it sounded very god too. Yes the Hugo has a bit of bigger volume but I did not feel that Hugo was bing driven upto its limits.


----------



## Shetzu

rozenberg said:


> Yup, that's the volume. Same when I demoed the Mojo.
> True about amplification, which is why I'm currently looking for a great one. It's just... All the good stuffs are in the US...
> My HD800 is SD modded and that totally kills the treble peak
> Although I didn't really have problem with treble, but it's better.
> ...



I just received my felt rings and am going to try modding the Hd 800 and see how goes. Can you explain more how you find the soundstage with the kill of treble peak is all good or has the soundstage diminished a bit. AS I read on these forums some claim it is not so.
I have orderd the Burson Soloist MK2 as my SS amp and WA6 with Sophia Princess plus upgrade drivers soon as my Tube amp. That will be my end game :rolleyes:


----------



## Rozenberg

shetzu said:


> Hello. I too am a mojo Hd-800 combo user and like the combination pretty good. Yes some songs does reach the blue colour on your volume buttons but I feel upto green for my personal taste is pretty good for this lovely cute musical Dac the Mojo. I love it.
> I did demo the Hugo with Hd 800 at a friends place and it sounded very god too. Yes the Hugo has a bit of bigger volume but I did not feel that Hugo was bing driven upto its limits.




Thanks for the impressions.
The only good thing about Hugo that interests me is the inputs it has, including bluetooth.
But I guess I'll just focus on my goal on getting the big boy amp.



shetzu said:


> I just received my felt rings and am going to try modding the Hd 800 and see how goes. Can you explain more how you find the soundstage with the kill of treble peak is all good or has the soundstage diminished a bit. AS I read on these forums some claim it is not so.




The SD resonator, right? "It is not so" might be correct. Personally I did not notice any degradation in soundstage after I installed the mod. Only amazement reflected in my eyes. Yeah, I was amazed because the first thing I tried after installing the mod was to play a song that I know having piercing sound at the beginning. And I was fine. Only treble peak gone for good. Though probably because of that too, that I for the first time found the bass on HD800 is actually really nice.
IMO the mod is really the solution for the treble problem some people have.

As for my endgame amp... let's see... Can't really promise anything but one can wish.
Hopefully any the Black Widow or Zana Deux S (the latter is really hard to find...)


----------



## Shetzu

rozenberg said:


> Thanks for the impressions.
> The only good thing about Hugo that interests me is the inputs it has, including bluetooth.
> But I guess I'll just focus on my goal on getting the big boy amp.
> The SD resonator, right? "It is not so" might be correct. Personally I did not notice any degradation in soundstage after I installed the mod. Only amazement reflected in my eyes. Yeah, I was amazed because the first thing I tried after installing the mod was to play a song that I know having piercing sound at the beginning. And I was fine. Only treble peak gone for good. Though probably because of that too, that I for the first time found the bass on HD800 is actually really nice.
> ...




The Zana Deaux is the best but apparently $2389 is way beyond my budget.  But you will have the best if you do buy it. I am sure that wish will lead you to it. The mod felts i got is the superduper resonator. Bought it from the creator of this mod. I have yet to try them. But many who have been using it dont want to let go and are enjoying the hd 800 more so.:rolleyes:

Yes Hugo has excellent input options but the sound is one step above its little brother Mojo. It does give you bigger soundstage .


----------



## Rozenberg

shetzu said:


> The Zana Deaux is the best but apparently $2389 is way beyond my budget.  But you will have the best if you do buy it. I am sure that wish will lead you to it. The mod felts i got is the superduper resonator. Bought it from the creator of this mod. I have yet to try them. But many who have been using it dont want to let go and are enjoying the hd 800 more so.:rolleyes:
> 
> Yes Hugo has excellent input options but the sound is one step above its little brother Mojo. It does give you bigger soundstage .




Even finding them used is hard, moreover in EU... Probably might have to give up although I may stretch my budget later...
Wonder if there is any 2nd or 3rd owner of DNA Stratus in EU who wants to let their amp go. That's my option too.

I brought my modded HD800 to a local meet and people there said the treble is smoother. It works great. I anax'd my HD800 before but did not notice any significant difference compared to the resonator.


----------



## Youth

rozenberg said:


> Thanks for the impressions.
> The only good thing about Hugo that interests me is the inputs it has, including bluetooth.
> But I guess I'll just focus on my goal on getting the big boy amp.
> The SD resonator, right? "It is not so" might be correct. Personally I did not notice any degradation in soundstage after I installed the mod. Only amazement reflected in my eyes. Yeah, I was amazed because the first thing I tried after installing the mod was to play a song that I know having piercing sound at the beginning. And I was fine. Only treble peak gone for good. Though probably because of that too, that I for the first time found the bass on HD800 is actually really nice.
> ...


 There are two Black Widows for sale just for your information. They are not made anymore so if you want one I'd grab one asap.


----------



## ClintonL

Looking to get a cheap SS amp for my hd800's. Not sure whether to get the magni 2 or the asgard 2?
  
 Cheers


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Vali 1 or 2 runs circles around both fo them.


----------



## mcteague

clintonl said:


> Looking to get a cheap SS amp for my hd800's. Not sure whether to get the magni 2 or the asgard 2?
> 
> Cheers


 

 I have the Asgard 2 running my HD800 phones. I almost never hear any brightness unless it it on the recording. I was worried, when I bought the Sennheisers, that I would not like them as I hate painful highs. However, I listen to just CDs and classical at that. From what I read, this is what the HD800 is best suited for.
  
 Tim


----------



## Rozenberg

youth said:


> There are two Black Widows for sale just for your information. They are not made anymore so if you want one I'd grab one asap.




I know but have to hold off for a bit because first, fund...
And importing from US. Paying tax will be fun.


----------



## ClintonL

Does the vali have any white noise/random cracking noise i stopped using my bottlehead crack because i hated the random noises.


----------



## eeagle

clintonl said:


> Does the vali have any white noise/random cracking noise i stopped using my bottlehead crack because i hated the random noises.


 
 Well welcome to the tube world.
  
 Even my Woo Audio WA7 has random noise during its warm up.
  
 Sorry to hear the bottlehead does as well.  I haven't got mine put together yet, still putting the finish on the wooden base.


----------



## ClintonL

Does the vali have it? If not i'll get the magni 2 uber.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

SS will always be quieter than tubes. Vali 1 had a low noise floor, but you could hear some white noise with the volume turned up when you music was paused. Not an issue during playback for me, though.


----------



## Astral Abyss

clintonl said:


> Does the vali have any white noise/random cracking noise i stopped using my bottlehead crack because i hated the random noises.




Shouldn't have random noises unless a tube is going bad. Crackling, popping, static... Bad tube.

Edit: I forgot whistling. Sounds like you're cooking a potato in the microwave. Very annoying.


----------



## jibzilla

clintonl said:


> Does the vali have it? If not i'll get the magni 2 uber.


 
  
 You really need to up your amp budget to $1k or go with the hd600 which is allot like the 800 but more forgiving. The hd600 is less resolving but will still scale up to $1k amps. The hd600, 650 and 800 are really known for scaling with totl amps.


----------



## Hansotek

jibzilla said:


> You really need to up your amp budget to $1k or go with the hd600 which is allot like the 800 but more forgiving. The hd600 is less resolving but will still scale up to $1k amps. The hd600, 650 and 800 are really known for scaling with totl amps.




I think for people who are unwilling or unable to amp the HD800 properly, the ENIGMAcoustics Dharma is a pretty strong alternative, as well.


----------



## DavidA

clintonl said:


> Does the vali have any white noise/random cracking noise i stopped using my bottlehead crack because i hated the random noises.


 
 BH Crack shouldn't have random noises, possible bad tube, solder joint, or even interconnects.


----------



## ClintonL

It was this weird noise it wasn't crackling or anything. When i played around switching in new tubes when rolling it wouldn't make a difference.
 Anyway i hear with a tube amp you can get noise like that and i'm pretty OCD where if i notice something that's all i'll notice. And i already have the hd800. Budget is kind of tight at the moment and i don't really listen to my headphones that much since i've recentely got a good set of studio monitors. I'm just using the internal amp of my Cambridge dac magic plus at the moment which is pretty lacking as long as i can get an improvement on that i'm happy.
 Just wondering would an hd800 being driven poorly by a magni 2 uber sound better than TH900's being driven by the magni 2?


----------



## DavidA

clintonl said:


> It was this weird noise it wasn't crackling or anything. When i played around switching in new tubes when rolling it wouldn't make a difference.
> Anyway i hear with a tube amp you can get noise like that and i'm pretty OCD where if i notice something that's all i'll notice. And i already have the hd800. Budget is kind of tight at the moment and i don't really listen to my headphones that much since i've recentely got a good set of studio monitors. I'm just using the internal amp of my Cambridge dac magic plus at the moment which is pretty lacking as long as i can get an improvement on that i'm happy.
> Just wondering would an hd800 being driven poorly by a magni 2 uber sound better than TH900's being driven by the magni 2?


 
 I think you might have a bad solder joint somewhere, when I first built my Crack it had very faint hum and a slight channel imbalance, all due to 1 solder joint being not quite perfect.
  
 As for you last question, I'll take the TH900 on the Magni2, the HD-800 on most SS amps is just a touch to harsh for me, a poorly driven HD-800 is not something I think many would enjoy while a poorly driven TH900 is still a pretty good sounding headphone IMO.


----------



## BobG55

The only headphone amp with which I've heard my HD800 at their full potential is the Zana Deux.  The overall sound is detailed, smooth, soundstage is nice and accurate with a nice dept, bass is very tight with no sloppiness, the highs are smooth without any harshness and no roll off;  overall they never get fatiguing either.  The other very good amps I've owned were the HeadAmp GS-X1, the Taurus MKII, the BHA-1, the GS-1, the vintage Fisher 500C & the Beyer A1.  
  
 None of those amps brought out the HD800's *overall *sound excellence like the ZDS. I can say the same for the other HPs I own: the HD600, HD650 & T1 Gen.1.  
  
 I don't see myself looking/ wishing for another amp.  I fell in love w/ the HD800 all over again.


----------



## Me x3

bobg55 said:


> The only headphone amp with which I've heard my HD800 at their full potential is the Zana Deux.  The overall sound is detailed, smooth, soundstage is nice and accurate with a nice dept, bass is very tight with no sloppiness, the highs are smooth without any harshness and no roll off;  overall they never get fatiguing either.  The other very good amps I've owned were the HeadAmp GS-X1, the Taurus MKII, the BHA-1, the GS-1, the vintage Fisher 500C & the Beyer A1.
> 
> None of those amps brought out the HD800's *overall *sound excellence like the ZDS. I can say the same for the other HPs I own: the HD600, HD650 & T1 Gen.1.
> 
> I don't see myself looking/ wishing for another amp.  I fell in love w/ the HD800 all over again.


 

 If you had to choose a SS amp for HD800 instead, which of those would be your pick?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

GSX sounded great in July for me.


----------



## BobG55

> If you had to choose a SS amp for HD800 instead, which of those would be your pick?


 
 Are you asking me to _*recommend*_ one in particular because you're thinking of buying or are you asking me just in order to know which I personally preferred ?


----------



## Me x3

bobg55 said:


> Are you asking me to _*recommend*_ one in particular because you're thinking of buying or are you asking me just in order to know which I personally preferred ?


 

 I'm asking to know which one you preferred.


----------



## BobG55

me x3 said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > Are you asking me to _*recommend*_ one in particular because you're thinking of buying or are you asking me just in order to know which I personally preferred ?
> ...


 

 Taking the price difference into consideration the one I liked the most was the Auralic Taurus MKII.  It wasn't as neutral as the GS-X MK2 for example but it had noticeable *depth *in it's soundstage. None of the other amps had this attribute to my recollection.  
  
 Surprisingly the amp that disappointed me the most was the GS-X MK2, maybe because I expected too much based on the posts and two reviews in particular that I had read.  Also based on the price which BTW made me realize that depending on personal "sound taste", price is not always the most reliable factor/ guarantee that the amp will become your "end game" one.
  
 The Taurus MKII has good detail, the bass is tight and it's a bit warmer than the GS-X MK2, BHA-1 and A1 although the latter is closer to the Taurus MKII overall sound than the first two.  This sound signature, for my personal taste, is better with the HD800 than a more neutral amp.
  
 For the difference in cost between the GS-X MK2 & the Taurus MKII I definitely find the Taurus MKII to be the best choice/ bargain overall.


----------



## thekorsen

Just got and installed the SD mod. I tested the before and after using a track I had that sounded very sibilant on the HD800s, especially when the male singer said anything with an "s". After the mod, I did a double take. Still a very high focused song, as that was the recording's fault, but the "s" didn't throw a javelin through the side of my head anymore!
  
 I did seem to notice a weaker bass impact/dynamics (which seemed to benefit from a bump in the 100-125hz range on EQ to bring it back up) and slightly less air, but that might also be because I'm not in an ideal listening environment atm (very loud roommate with fans going). It also seems like I need to turn the knob on my amp further to get them up to my normal listening volume, but again that could also be the environment. But overall, the no longer as piercing highs is a great addition to an already amazing headphone.
  
 *edit* Just realized I can listen to my Liquid DnB playlists without pain now! Loving this mod more and more.


----------



## Joeybgood

thekorsen said:


> Just got and installed the SD mod. I tested the before and after using a track I had that sounded very sibilant on the HD800s, especially when the male singer said anything with an "s". After the mod, I did a double take. Still a very high focused song, as that was the recording's fault, but the "s" didn't throw a javelin through the side of my head anymore!
> 
> I did seem to notice a weaker bass impact/dynamics (which seemed to benefit from a bump in the 100-125hz range on EQ to bring it back up) and slightly less air, but that might also be because I'm not in an ideal listening environment atm (very loud roommate with fans going). It also seems like I need to turn the knob on my amp further to get them up to my normal listening volume, but again that could also be the environment. But overall, the no longer as piercing highs is a great addition to an already amazing headphone.
> 
> *edit* Just realized I can listen to my Liquid DnB playlists without pain now! Loving this mod more and more.


 
 Where does one buy the SD resonator/mod at?


----------



## lukeap69

joeybgood said:


> Where does one buy the SD resonator/mod at?




Send a PM to the creator of the SD mod @Sorrodje.


----------



## Sorrodje

No mystery there. Reducing the 6khz contributes to reduce the masking effect of the peak. Hence the "moar bass, moar mids, moar volume" .


----------



## eeagle

joeybgood said:


> Where does one buy the SD resonator/mod at?


 
 You can make your own, or buy from a person on ebay who makes them iaw Sorrodje's guidelines


----------



## Sorrodje

or ask me to make a pair


----------



## Fegefeuer

come on guys,
  
*support the original mod maker and buy it from him*. It's easy, fast and very fair. First shipment I got went through a journey throughout Europe and Sorrodje instantly sent me a new letter.


----------



## Rozenberg

Fast or not depends on the waiting list though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 But yeah rather than buying from Ebay, better order it directly from Sorrodje.
 This mod totally worth it.


----------



## Sorrodje

There's no more waiting list so it's fast.


----------



## h1f1add1cted

I need to share I'm in love with my HD 800 now with french mod, I own the stock HD 800 for a couple of years, the treble can be from time to time to harsh, also depending on the record and mastering of the music, this change is quite nice, since no airiness get lost, very happy with the results.
  

  
  
 I also made a few blind test I have two HD 800 with almost same S/N range one with french mod and one stock.
  

  
 It's very decent change, but for me even with so much love for stock HD 800 for a couple of years, the HD 800 F is truly the better one. The HD 800 S is also different beast, I need more time to listen to it to really say more about.


----------



## Peti

h1f1add1cted said:


> I need to share I'm in love with my HD 800 now with french mod, I own the stock HD 800 for a couple of years, the treble can be from time to time to harsh, also depending on the record and mastering of the music, this change is quite nice, since no airiness get lost, very happy with the results.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Great! How is the soundstage got affected by that mod on the HD800?


----------



## Poki

I absolutely concurred;  it took Monsieur ​Sorrodje less than 8 hours to ship after payment received. (Thank you once again for sharing your invention!!)


----------



## Sorrodje

Many thks for all these positive comment. It's very rewarding and they're much appreciated.


----------



## Shetzu

sorrodje said:


> No mystery there. Reducing the 6khz contributes to reduce the masking effect of the peak. Hence the "moar bass, moar mids, moar volume" .


 
 I finally Did it. Inserted the resonator made by you and now the Hd 800 sounds better. But I can say it does not bring the peak of 6KHZ down totally but I would say about 3db lower. At least the shrill is no more there. Thanks my friend for this.


----------



## thefitz

shetzu said:


> I finally Did it. Inserted the resonator made by you and now the Hd 800 sounds better. But I can say it does not bring the peak of 6KHZ down totally but I would say about 3db lower. At least the shrill is no more there. Thanks my friend for this.


 

 It's a fantastic mod, and I love the set of cans with it. However I must apologize as I bought the mod off ebay - it didn't cost much and I thought these kinds of mods are public domain...


----------



## Shetzu

thefitz said:


> It's a fantastic mod, and I love the set of cans with it. However I must apologize as I bought the mod off ebay - it didn't cost much and I thought these kinds of mods are public domain...


 
 Yes our friend *Sarrodje* is creator of the superdupont mod and it is the best. There are videos to help out too. I am glad i used these resonators.. Hope your issue gets solved too.


----------



## Sorrodje

thefitz said:


> I thought these kinds of mods are public domain...


 
  
 Actually it's protected by a CC-by-SA license. conditions are crystal clear :
  
 "All art, instructions, material selections and information in this post and following posts (collectively the "****** HD800 SuperDupont Resonator mod by Sorrodje") are covered by the Creative Commons Attribution-Sharealike 4.0 international license. Any derivative work may be sold as long as instructions and art are distributed freely and correct attribution (mention of the name of the mod, Sorrodje, and a link to this thread) is maintained."
  
 So the ebay seller in the US is totally in line with the license  . Another ebay classified isn't . 
  
 And You have the choice to purchase the mod where you want


----------



## thefitz

sorrodje said:


> Actually it's protected by a CC-by-SA license. conditions are crystal clear :
> 
> "All art, instructions, material selections and information in this post and following posts (collectively the "****** HD800 SuperDupont Resonator mod by Sorrodje") are covered by the Creative Commons Attribution-Sharealike 4.0 international license. Any derivative work may be sold as long as instructions and art are distributed freely and correct attribution (mention of the name of the mod, Sorrodje, and a link to this thread) is maintained."
> 
> ...


 

 Indeed, I used the "public domain" rather broadly.
  
 It's a great mod, and you've done great work. I find myself reaching for my SD-800 over my LCD-3F all the time.


----------



## Sorrodje

Thks again. All positive comments are much appreciated


----------



## h1f1add1cted

peti said:


> Great! How is the soundstage got affected by that mod on the HD800?


 

 No sir, it's still the same width and depth and typical 3D holographic soundstage which we all love.


----------



## jwbrent

eeagle said:


> So is anyone wanting a new set of cushions, complete with headphone?
> 
> The stock is back at FocusCamera and $899 is about as low as I've seen them.




Wow, great price. I've been on the fence about purchasing the HD800s for a while. One question: was the issue of the paint chipping or peeling ever addressed by Sennheiser?


----------



## vc1187

jwbrent said:


> Wow, great price. I've been on the fence about purchasing the HD800s for a while. One question: was the issue of the paint chipping or peeling ever addressed by Sennheiser?


 
  
 Nope... pretty much if they touch any hard surface with minimal force, they will likely chip.
 After the first 3 times of hunting down and owning flawless HD800s, I realized that it was kind of pointless as they would chip over the period ownership, so my next 3 pairs were cheaper via the secondhand market with chipped paint.
  
 The stock cable is locked in tight enough to where if you aren't really careful about disconnecting the cable, you can pull out the cable with too much force and unintentionally scrape up your HD800 while doing it.  Talk about something that induces high anxiety.


----------



## shultzee

Owned and used mine for a year and no chipped paint (knocking on wood).


----------



## beowulf

vc1187 said:


> Nope... pretty much if they touch any hard surface with minimal force, they will likely chip.
> After the first 3 times of hunting down and owning flawless HD800s, I realized that it was kind of pointless as they would chip over the period ownership, so my next 3 pairs were cheaper via the secondhand market with chipped paint.
> 
> The stock cable is locked in tight enough to where if you aren't really careful about disconnecting the cable, you can pull out the cable with too much force and unintentionally scrape up your HD800 while doing it.  Talk about something that induces high anxiety.


 
  
 Does the 800S also have this chipping issue, on the similar areas but that are black now?


----------



## frankrondaniel

I've owned my 800's for several years now - no chipping that I can see.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I can't be bothered to treat headphones as if they're porcelain. I toss them onto couches and mattresses with abandon. If I lose some value in resell, so be it.
  
 HD800 sounds as good as it ever has and the paint imperfections are hardly noticeable unless you're looking for them.


----------



## kc-howl

Hello,
  
 I would like to enjoy your research and knowledges about the HD800.
  
 Does substitute a DAC and a headphone amp by a great MAO external soundcard is possible ?
 The converters and the integrated amp will they be good ?
 Because I heard about the great conversions N/A and A/N, but also about the poor headphones output qualities in this devices…
  
 I need neutral and transparent sound with an external soundcard able to drive and operate the HD800’s full range of frequencies, because I would like to combine this device for recording and mixing (next to monitors working) with high definition (.WAV, .FLAC, …) files and lossless listenings ; but no “colored”.
  
 Is it possible ? Do you have any suggestions external soundcards ?
  
 Thanks !


----------



## Thenewguy007

fjrabon said:


> Shootout time, LOL.
> 
> iDAC6 vs MoMBy vs (not pictured m9XX)
> ECP DSHA2 vs ECP Torpedo III
> ...




Did you ever give a review on the shootout?

The difference you heard between a silver cable vs OFC vs stock.

The DSHA2 vs Torpedo III.


----------



## McClelland

shetzu said:


> Thanks noted. Appreciate you help. I too am keen and inclined towards Tube amps. I will check on these However these amps are bit on the higher cost.


 
 Haven't moved beyond this point in the thread, but I'm assuming the Mjolnir 2 with tubes has been recommended to your list.  I'm presently listening to unmodded HD800 with an old cardas balanced cable and Amperex tubes and think it's delightful, but it maybe a case of "ignorance is bliss" as I've never demo'ed the ALO or anything in the the Wa line up.  Since it's unlikely that I will, I've persuaded myself that I've hit gold with the present setup and haven't even rolled more tubes yet.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

mcclelland said:


> Haven't moved beyond this point in the thread, but I'm assuming the Mjolnir 2 with tubes has been recommended to your list.  I'm presently listening to unmodded HD800 with an old cardas balanced cable and Amperex tubes and think it's delightful, but it maybe a case of "ignorance is bliss" as I've never demo'ed the ALO or anything in the the Wa line up.  Since it's unlikely that I will, I've persuaded myself that I've hit gold with the present setup and haven't even rolled more tubes yet.


 

 +1, down to the amperax (in my case '68)


----------



## Peti

I'm just sitting here in the Hollywood Bowl; Black &%$$%&+ Sabbath left the stage like 15 minutes ago and I'm just staring at the stage. I was preparing for this show with my hd800 and modi multibit; I got pretty much the best editions of their albums I like: S/t first UK pressing, Paranoid quad fan mix, MoR SACD, Vol4 first picture disk, live in montreaux 1970. Been listening these in the past few days is rotation but nothing gets close to the real thing. Sorry hd800, sorry SACD.


----------



## Rozenberg

Been pretty quite lately eh.
 Here I am just sitting browsing thru head fi everyday in hope to find a nice used tube amp in the FS forum.
 I decided to lower my budget and aiming for DNA Sonett 2, which I also read pairs wonderfully with HD800 than WA2...
 Now the problem is, no EU owner is willing to sell theirs yet.
 Apparently the topic about HD800 amps and the search never end...


----------



## Sorrodje

rozenberg said:


> I decided to lower my budget and aiming for DNA Sonett 2, which I also read pairs wonderfully with HD800 than WA2...


 
  
 Good choice indeed.. but as you noticed, ownerd don't sell them   . I sold mine to a guy in France and he promised me to keep it for me in case he would sell it


----------



## Rozenberg

sorrodje said:


> Good choice indeed.. but as you noticed, ownerd don't sell them   . I sold mine to a guy in France and he promised me to keep it for me in case he would sell it


 
 I was hoping you'd sell your Stratus but I guess not happening eh


----------



## Sorrodje

Call me back in a few years


----------



## bigfatpaulie

rozenberg said:


> Been pretty quite lately eh.
> Here I am just sitting browsing thru head fi everyday in hope to find a nice used tube amp in the FS forum.
> I decided to lower my budget and aiming for DNA Sonett 2, which I also read pairs wonderfully with HD800 than WA2...
> Now the problem is, no EU owner is willing to sell theirs yet.
> Apparently the topic about HD800 amps and the search never end...


 
  
 With the Sonett no longer being made, I think your search won't get any easier.  I've read that it was very close to the Stratus, so you really are missing out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Good luck in the hunt!


----------



## Rozenberg

sorrodje said:


> Call me back in a few years




Maybe when you get the Stellaris? 




bigfatpaulie said:


> With the Sonett no longer being made, I think your search won't get any easier.  I've read that it was very close to the Stratus, so you really are missing out :bigsmile_face:
> 
> Good luck in the hunt!




I'm actually already aware from the start that this won't be easy, nor would it be for EC amp, but at this point I just don't know what else to get...
Uurgh why are all HD800's best amps hard to get.


----------



## Sorrodje

A few are very easy to get in EU: The Feliks Audio Elise for example


----------



## Rozenberg

sorrodje said:


> A few are very easy to get in EU: The Feliks Audio Elise for example


 
 That I know but design and performance wise, I still believe in DNA.
 I want to fill the space of my 450mm x 525mm table.


----------



## Sorrodje

rozenberg said:


> That I know but design and performance wise, I still believe in DNA.
> I want to fill the space of my 450mm x 525mm table.


 
  
 I hear your 
  
 Save the money and when you're ready , open a [WTB] classified and follow all classified. A few stratus pop at times.


----------



## Rozenberg

sorrodje said:


> I hear your
> 
> Save the money and when you're ready , open a [WTB] classified and follow all classified. A few stratus pop at times.


 
 Alright, updated my ad.
  
 Honestly I don't think my money will last long after this weekend, y'know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Or maybe for the better since I believe I'll be able to try HD800 in different setups and then other idea might pop up.


----------



## Thenewguy007

sorrodje said:


> I hear your
> 
> Save the money and when you're ready , open a [WTB] classified and follow all classified. A few stratus pop at times.




What are the other alternatives to a 2A3 headphone amps?

I know Eddie Current has one, but i think the price is higher than the Stratus.

Are the rest, only power amps with no headphone jacks?


----------



## Sorrodje

Thenewguy007 sorry i don't understand your question.


----------



## Thenewguy007

sorrodje said:


> Thenewguy007 sorry i don't understand your question.




I only know of the DNA Stratus & the EC 2A3 IV amp as the only 2A3 based headphone amps on the market. Are there any other ones as well?


----------



## jhljhl

thenewguy007 said:


> I only know of the DNA Stratus & the EC 2A3 IV amp as the only 2A3 based headphone amps on the market. Are there any other ones as well?


 
 EC Studio


----------



## Sorrodje

EC studio & studio Jr. Viva egoista 2a3. And Halgorythme in France makes a 2a3. Not much 2a3 amps indeed.


----------



## Rozenberg

I think Moth also made 2A3 but it's rare.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I know the Stratus likes to claim that it can drive HE-6, but there's a lot of derision for it (and any other non-super-primo-speaker amp) on the HE-6 thread. Has anyone compared?


----------



## Hansotek

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I know the Stratus likes to claim that it can drive HE-6, but there's a lot of derision for it (and any other non-super-primo-speaker amp) on the HE-6 thread. Has anyone compared?




I maintain it is the best amp I've heard paired with the HE-6. I get the sense that it has a lot to do with the tubes you choose, based on the mixed response, as nobody could possibly deny what I heard if they had their ears on the same setup. It wasn't just subjectively good. It objectively owned.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I know the Stratus likes to claim that it can drive HE-6, but there's a lot of derision for it (and any other non-super-primo-speaker amp) on the HE-6 thread. Has anyone compared?


 
  
 I owned the HE6's and LFF Code-X's with my Stratus.  It was an excellent pairing.  The Stratus even drives the Abyss well. 
  
 I'd to add that I've owned many other 'primo' speaker and headphone amps - Pass Int30a, SuSy Dynahi, Moon 600i, Krell KAV-400, GSX MK2 to name a few.


----------



## jhljhl

sorrodje said:


> EC studio & studio Jr. Viva egoista 2a3. And  in France makes a 2a3. Not much 2a3 amps indeed.


 
 Halgorythme? How do they sound?


----------



## Sorrodje

Dunno. Never heard . Sorry


----------



## jhljhl

sorrodje said:


> Dunno. Never heard . Sorry


 
 http://www.halgorythme.com/bloc_stereo_se_45_25w.html
  
 Actually there are only 300b and 45 based head amps on the site.


----------



## Sorrodje

Yup. but I know he can make 2A3 based headamps as well  . just shoot him a message if you are interested.


----------



## Amalz

Hi,

Need best after market cable for my HD 800 around $150-$200
Any suggestions?


----------



## ezekiel77

amalz said:


> Hi,
> 
> Need best after market cable for my HD 800 around $150-$200
> Any suggestions?




Contact @Peterek. Your price range is just right. Excellent build quality and a great guy.


----------



## JoshuaJ0

Just got a pair of HD 800's proud to finally be able to join this forum!


----------



## Sorrodje

'grats.


----------



## lukeap69

Was anybody looking for a Sonett 2?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/821277/dna-sonett-2-near-mint-first-owner


----------



## Rozenberg

lukeap69 said:


> Was anybody looking for a Sonett 2?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/821277/dna-sonett-2-near-mint-first-owner




Yeah, waiting reply from the seller, if anyone in the US doesn't beat me to.it first.


----------



## lukeap69

rozenberg said:


> Yeah, waiting reply from the seller, if anyone in the US doesn't beat me to.it first.


 
 Good luck mate! Hope you get it.


----------



## Rozenberg

lukeap69 said:


> Good luck mate! Hope you get it.




I hope so but it seems like there are others as well so yeah...


----------



## deserat

A friend loned me his studio monitors,  some M-Audio BX5e's because he was super impressed with how much better the soundstage is with monitors vs headphones. After tweaking speaker positions and getting myself sat just right I could hear what he was talking about... bigger room more spacious positioning. Thing is I'm listening to HD 800's through an HDVA 600 and a Gungir  and those M Audio speakers... well they kinda suck in comparison.

 It occurred to me that HD 800's are very open back and well I'm feeding them and the M-Audio's through the Gungir.... maybe if I put the headphones on while listening to the speakers..... Holy Mother of... did somebody slip  something in my cocktail? 
  
 The headphones fill in all the detail lost by the speakers, the speakers extend the HD 800's soundstage out quite a bit - actually the headphones also deepen and increase the accuracy of the speakers sounstage. I was expecting a bit of echo it's not really there. Perhaps something akin to the bloom one gets from tubes, but the tightness of feeding the headphones with a SS amp more than makes up for it.

 Anybody else try this? I'm kinda floored. I mean it's like sitting front row with Muddy Waters in a small bar. Audiomachines  Magnus sounds like it's being performed by an ochestra spread out over small valley. 

 Anybody else try this?


----------



## Rozenberg

I underestimated HD800. All of my time of owning it, never did I expect to be this frustrated.
 I thought I could just be happy-go-lucky but maybe my requirements are kinda too hard for the budget.
 I don't even think there's any other alternative like Sonett 2 except EC Black Widow, or go bigger...
 This is why the topic never ends I guess...


----------



## lukeap69

rozenberg said:


> I underestimated HD800. All of my time of owning it, never did I expect to be this frustrated.
> I thought I could just be happy-go-lucky but maybe my requirements are kinda too hard for the budget.
> I don't even think there's any other alternative like Sonett 2 except EC Black Widow, or go bigger...
> This is why the topic never ends I guess...




I am very happy with @2359glenn OTL amp pairing with thr HD800. Glenn makes excellent tube amps and he uses HD800 and HD650 personally so he knows what these phones need. The only issue is waiting time.


----------



## Rozenberg

lukeap69 said:


> I am very happy with @2359glenn OTL amp pairing with thr HD800. Glenn makes excellent tube amps and he uses HD800 and HD650 personally so he knows what these phones need. The only issue is waiting time.


 
 Yeah I've seen Glenn's amps and as you said, waiting time kinda puts me off. 
 The Decware CSP3 also looks beautiful but also waiting time and 300€ international shipping.


----------



## lenroot77

Can anyone comment on the ZY cable they currently have on Massdrop?
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/sennheiser-hd-800-zy-cable

Currently using the stock cable reterminated with an XLR. 

Anyone buy one last drop that they would like to sell? (4 pin xlr please)


----------



## Nikorasu

The HD 800 S is $1,199 on eglobalcentral. Is it trust worthy? Should I buy it from their instead the full price on amazon? https://www.eglobalcentral.com/sennheiser-hd800s-high-resolution-headphones.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjwsai_BRC30KH347fjksoBEiQAoiaqsTEHtdIu1gTJPwcMVb_PYnS35W4YI5q1lA8GPjo1-xgaAqTj8P8HAQ#/product/18424


----------



## MikePio

Hey guys, I posted this in the HD800S forum as well but thought perhaps you guys would have some feedback and help me out a bit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Currently my HD800 setup is the following, Marantz CD6005 USB>Tube buffer (black treasuers cv181)> HA-5000 and I really love the sound, the only problem is that on some songs and frequencies there is this annoying resonance, like ringing and this causes listening fatigue after some time. I have no other problems like treble glare or the HD800 being overly bright, I like the sound of them as they are except for this one problem, resonance. Perhaps I am oversensitive to this issue, since when listening to ambient music this happens frequently because of the reverb and other effects used, for classical music I rarely have this problem. Though the same issue happens in Choral music and at a certain note the kind ringing happens again. Does the DuPont resonator completely eliminate this without changing the sound characteristics and nature of the HD800? Thanks.


----------



## FLTWS

mikepio said:


> ... the only problem is that on some songs and frequencies there is this annoying resonance, like ringing and this causes listening fatigue after some time. I have no other problems like treble glare or the HD800 being overly bright, I like the sound of them as they are except for this one problem, resonance. Perhaps I am oversensitive to this issue, since when listening to ambient music this happens frequently because of the reverb and other effects used, for classical music I rarely have this problem. Though the same issue happens in Choral music and at a certain note the kind ringing happens again. Does the DuPont resonator completely eliminate this without changing the sound characteristics and nature of the HD800? Thanks.


 
  
 Out of curiosity, is what you are experiencing when listening have a visual analogy akin to "ghosting" that can occur when watching TV (especially back in the days when antennas were the only form of signal reception)?


----------



## MikePio

fltws said:


> Out of curiosity, is what you are experiencing when listening have a visual analogy akin to "ghosting" that can occur when watching TV (especially back in the days when antennas were the only form of signal reception)?


 
  
 Not sure if I completely understand your analogy but it almost seems that certain frequencies like certain vocal choral music or ambient like effects that cause ringing, this can be heard with other headphones as well but it is not as pronounced and annoying as with the HD800's. It seems that the design of the headphone could be the cause, the sound somehow rings around the chamber causing this sound, I am not sure to be honest. I am looking for a solution, one was mentioned earlier using cross feed, but I do not have such an option. The next solution would be the DuPont Resonator but I do not want to change the sound characteristics, just tone down the resonance.


----------



## FLTWS

mikepio said:


> Not sure if I completely understand your analogy but it almost seems that certain frequencies like certain vocal choral music or ambient like effects that cause ringing, this can be heard with other headphones as well but it is not as pronounced and annoying as with the HD800's. It seems that the design of the headphone could be the cause, the sound somehow rings around the chamber causing this sound, I am not sure to be honest. I am looking for a solution, one was mentioned earlier using cross feed, but I do not have such an option. The next solution would be the DuPont Resonator but I do not want to change the sound characteristics, just tone down the resonance.


 
  
 OK then, here's an excerpt of an e-mail I sent to an audiophile / audio store / salesman / installer I've known for over 3 decades when he wanted some feedback on some of the gear I was using.
 Maybe this will help explain it...
  
 ...
 "I also have some cd’s that have a variety of quirky recording issues; cell phones ringing, truck and subways noise or vibrations, control room or other doors being closed, that got transmitted somehow and picked up in the recording process.
  

 I’ve got this particular one that I think (with a capital “?”), is an issue of how the music was scored by the composer (Mahler 3rd) combined with microphone technology and/or transducer resonances. This is especially noticeable on the Lopez-Cobos Telarc  “and” Chailly Decca recordings of M3 I have. The soloist and instruments combine in a strange way creating a resonance that echoes (but only once and at significantly reduced amplitude). The best visual analogy I can come up with is the “ghosting” that occurred on vintage CRT TV’s. I’ve never heard this effect in a live concert hall performance of this work (3 times) I guess because of the volume of space and lack of early reflections one encounters as a member of the audience as opposed to what mics pickup when recording. I’ve heard this spurious resonance on different recordings of the same work, at the same spot, by different orchestras in different halls, with different soloists and recording labels, etc. It’s in the closing of the 4th movement of Mahlers 3rd. on the last word sung by the contralto soloist, “E-wig-keit” which she stretches over 5 bars per the score (I checked) to the accompaniment of soft horns and string tremolos. I’ve heard it on different recorded performances and with different headphones.  I don’t think it’s the kind of thing brought about by my playback (or anybody’s) play back chain. Different headphones bring out more or less clearly and provide for interesting listening comparisons of the whole chain. It could also be bleed over of the sound from the contraltos mic to an adjacent one as she rolls her head about while hanging on to those notes on this last word.  But again, on different recordings! Lunatic fringe stuff, I know, but that’s what headphones give you easily that speakers may or may not. I haven’t experienced this live and I’ve seen this work performed live on 3 different occasions over the years at 3 different venues, and with 3 different orchestras, soloists, conductors, etc.
  
 Sometimes recordings with flaws can be helpful when evaluating gear." ...


----------



## MikePio

fltws said:


> OK then, here's an excerpt of an e-mail I sent to an audiophile / audio store / salesman / installer I've known for over 3 decades when he wanted some feedback on some of the gear I was using.
> Maybe this will help explain it...
> 
> ...
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for posting this! Seems like the problem could be exacerbated by my system, I wouldn't be surprised if the "tube buffer" made this resonance more noticeable. Even taking the buffer out of the audio chain the problem is still noticeable but less pronounced. Just out of curiosity, do you experience this with your HD800 on some recordings? Either way, for now I will live with it, since everything else about the sound is just about perfect for me. Perhaps I will get the Zana Deux one day and this problem will go away (hopefully).


----------



## FLTWS

mikepio said:


> Thanks for posting this! Seems like the problem could be exacerbated by my system, I wouldn't be surprised if the "tube buffer" made this resonance more noticeable. Even taking the buffer out of the audio chain the problem is still noticeable but less pronounced. Just out of curiosity, do you experience this with your HD800 on some recordings? Either way, for now I will live with it, since everything else about the sound is just about perfect for me. Perhaps I will get the Zana Deux one day and this problem will go away (hopefully).


 
  
 I experience it in the same spots with a number of recordings and different headphones, but the HD800 lays it out with a clarity the others don't. Is that because the HD800 is a more accurate transducer than any of my other phones or because something in the HD800 in interacting in a way that makes the issue come off worse than the others. Not sure yet, but eventually I'll run through these same recordings and others with various sound anomalies with the 800S (and Utopia) when I'm up in the rotation to audition them. As of now, I'm going with the "its the recording (and/or) coupled with the scoring which combines tones in a way that are overloading something in the recording chain, not the playback chain.
  
 While we spend a lot of time dissecting the minutiae of the technical prowess in our hardware, I think today's (and even yesterdays) hardware is a lot more capable of accurately reproducing the software than we realize. Maybe it's it's time for a revolution in how this music gets recorded before it enters our playback equipment.
  
 And as has been said many times,  the source is what it is and we can't really make adjustments to the original source material. Equalization is a post source adjustment. Or, "No matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, ...."


----------



## Rozenberg

Anyone here has HD800 paired with Audio GD stuffs?
 I've actually been interested in Audio GD for a long time since the internal looks really neat and while design is just so-so, they look badass.
 I'm just afraid they might sound... neutral or transparent perhaps? Since I want a bit of coloration (and maybe beautiful design as well which is why tube amps)
 Going to events has made me appreciate my HD800 more that's why I began willing to spend more on amps, although when I first owned it, I thought expensive amps were stupid.


----------



## Sorrodje

The only A-GD I tried seriously was the HE-9 and it was a beast of an amp . Excellent pairing with my HD800  . On the warm side, fantastic staging with superb depth and layering , terrific impactful bass. Great sense of power AND smoothness. Not the last word in clarity, resolution and finesse though. That's what tube is for  
  
 The Master 9 is maybe in the same league or close ?


----------



## franzdom

TL/DR, in fact I even had a bear of a time finding this thread when looking for 800S threads...here is my question:
  
 What is the connection to the cans at the cans? I mean if I am planning on a custom cable before I get them, what would the HP ends need to be?
  
 It feels inevitable that I will own this at some point soon based on how it's so very prevalent in the threads I frequent.


----------



## Rozenberg

sorrodje said:


> The only A-GD I tried seriously was the HE-9 and it was a beast of an amp . Excellent pairing with my HD800  . On the warm side, fantastic staging with superb depth and layering , terrific impactful bass. Great sense of power AND smoothness. Not the last word in clarity, resolution and finesse though. That's what tube is for
> 
> The Master 9 is maybe in the same league or close ?


 
 Thanks for the brief impression. I like smooooth though 
 If it's really that good, AGD might be in for consideration as well.
  


franzdom said:


> TL/DR, in fact I even had a bear of a time finding this thread when looking for 800S threads...here is my question:
> 
> What is the connection to the cans at the cans? I mean if I am planning on a custom cable before I get them, what would the HP ends need to be?
> 
> It feels inevitable that I will own this at some point soon based on how it's so very prevalent in the threads I frequent.


 
 The HP ends? Normally cable maker just call it HD800 connectors in their options if you order one.
 Except if you want to buy the connector, its name is LEMO connector, just have to find the right 2 pins one though and kinda hard.


----------



## franzdom

Ok I get it, proprietary connectors.


----------



## Rozenberg

Yup, it's one of the annoying connectors since the proper HD800 connectors cost much, even the chinese ones aren't really cheap either.
 I once thought about building a bigger cable for my HD800 with dual XLR but the connector entrance is just too small.


----------



## lenroot77

If your looking for smooth you may try the AGD Dac-19 (or other AGD r2r dac) and a liquid carbon. Lots of talk about this combo here on headfi. After reading much about it myself I went this route. I believe it's a lot of bang for the buck for an HD800 setup.


----------



## Rozenberg

lenroot77 said:


> If your looking for smooth you may try the AGD Dac-19 (or other AGD r2r dac) and a liquid carbon. Lots of talk about this combo here on headfi. After reading much about it myself I went this route. I believe it's a lot of bang for the buck for an HD800 setup.


 
 My luck always ran out on good stuffs. November last year, I saw a DAC-19 on ebay.de for like 350€.
 When I wanted to click buy the next morning, it was gone already...
 While I'm not really interested in Liquid Carbon, I'm still interested in DAC-19 though. Will try to find it after I sort my amp first.


----------



## MikePio

fltws said:


> I experience it in the same spots with a number of recordings and different headphones, but the HD800 lays it out with a clarity the others don't. Is that because the HD800 is a more accurate transducer than any of my other phones or because something in the HD800 in interacting in a way that makes the issue come off worse than the others. Not sure yet, but eventually I'll run through these same recordings and others with various sound anomalies with the 800S (and Utopia) when I'm up in the rotation to audition them. As of now, I'm going with the "its the recording (and/or) coupled with the scoring which combines tones in a way that are overloading something in the recording chain, not the playback chain.
> 
> While we spend a lot of time dissecting the minutiae of the technical prowess in our hardware, I think today's (and even yesterdays) hardware is a lot more capable of accurately reproducing the software than we realize. Maybe it's it's time for a revolution in how this music gets recorded before it enters our playback equipment.
> 
> And as has been said many times,  the source is what it is and we can't really make adjustments to the original source material. Equalization is a post source adjustment. Or, "No matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, ...."


 
  
 Seems like we have similar findings and observations. I was also thinking that perhaps the HD800 has such immense detail retrieval that certain flaws or sounds are accentuated and more apparent... that leads to the point of recording quality you briefly mention, I find myself disappointed when a certain album is not as well produced as others, it is less apparent with my other headphones. I also find it very hard to sit back and relax with the HD800 at normal listening levels (not from sibilance or excessive brightness) but from how the music is presented, I guess the headphone just demands your full attention more than others! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This might sound strange but for some reason I am emotionally exhausted with some forms of music... Perhaps I am getting too old...


----------



## FLTWS

mikepio said:


> Seems like we have similar findings and observations. I was also thinking that perhaps the HD800 has such immense detail retrieval that certain flaws or sounds are accentuated and more apparent... that leads to the point of recording quality you briefly mention, I find myself disappointed when a certain album is not as well produced as others, it is less apparent with my other headphones. I also find it very hard to sit back and relax with the HD800 at normal listening levels (not from sibilance or excessive brightness) but from how the music is presented, I guess the headphone just demands your full attention more than others!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I feel people who prefer a  more "forgiving" headphone instead of an "unforgiving" headphone have a perfectly valid point. It's about enjoying what you listen to and is why I intend to have several options available, to accommodate the variability in the recordings.
  
 For twelve years I was perfectly satisfied with my vintage Sony Walkman CD and either Bose QC15's or the little in-ear Bose model for my walks. But then I fell off the wagon after I purchased an Oppo 105D to replace a 9 year old DVD player (which broke) and 9 year old BRD player (that was pretty bare bones) and heard what the 105D's headphone amp was capable of, and it was all downhill from there. "Just when I thought I was out..."
  
 As for emotional exhaustion and musical form, I get that at times with my classical music (90% of my listening). At times when I focus too long on my favorite period, (the Late Romantic composers), I'll experience burnout. I fix it with Bach for his clarity, Mozart for his purity, Beethoven for his humanity. If I'm feeling decadent bring on Debussy and Ravel. So many great options; Stravinsky, Vaughn-Williams, Copeland, Schoenberg, Medieval Period stuff, and on and on. Eventually I'll land back with Wagner, Puccini, Bruckner, Strauss and Mahler and start my cycle over.
  
 My classical recordings span a time frame starting in the late 30's to the present day so recorded quality is all over the place and yet unpredictable as to quality by date, so I'm used to variability of recorded quality.
  
 My rock, jazz, and film score music is a different story. I don't listen with a critical ear, it's purely for enjoyment and is always fun, energizing, or relaxing. Most of this year I've been like a 'dog on point' working too hard at listening to all my new gear and that will bring on burn out. But, I also know based on my past experience, in time I'll be over that "new toy" aspect and everything will snap into place for me. I keep notes as I listen to new gear initially, and it's always the case that subtle differences that are difficult to discern the first month or two suddenly become more obvious as I move into a more relaxed mode of listening.
  
 We're all getting too old, it's inevitable. Don't give up and give yourself a break now and then.


----------



## lukeap69

rozenberg said:


> Anyone here has HD800 paired with Audio GD stuffs?
> I've actually been interested in Audio GD for a long time since the internal looks really neat and while design is just so-so, they look badass.
> I'm just afraid they might sound... neutral or transparent perhaps? Since I want a bit of coloration (and maybe beautiful design as well which is why tube amps)
> Going to events has made me appreciate my HD800 more that's why I began willing to spend more on amps, although when I first owned it, I thought expensive amps were stupid.




I had a chance to hear different amps with my own HD800 before. Audio-gd Master 9 was one of them and I came away very impressed. It was dynamic and transparent and smooth up top although some commented thr Ragnarok is smoother in the highs, I felt the other way around. I wouldn't mind owning a Master 9 one day. 

Regarding DAC-19, this is my current DAC and as I have posted somewhere in the past, this made a very good difference in my system. I didn't like the Lyr-2 pairing with HD800, however when I have changed my previous DAC (NFB-1DAC) to DAC-19, the Lyr 2 /HD800 became enjoyable pairing for me. Go figure.

Having said all the above, if you are looking for both DAC and amp, check Master 11.


----------



## ezekiel77

rozenberg said:


> Anyone here has HD800 paired with Audio GD stuffs?
> I've actually been interested in Audio GD for a long time since the internal looks really neat and while design is just so-so, they look badass.
> I'm just afraid they might sound... neutral or transparent perhaps? Since I want a bit of coloration (and maybe beautiful design as well which is why tube amps)
> Going to events has made me appreciate my HD800 more that's why I began willing to spend more on amps, although when I first owned it, I thought expensive amps were stupid.


 
  
 I've heard it in a summit fi Audiogd setup: Master 7 to HE-9. Very authoritative and punchy, slightly warm, big stage, extremely enjoyable. I nearly bit on the Master 11 DAC/amp as well, but the size of their stuff are too big for my AV rack.


----------



## pervysage

I have the Master 11 and HD800. I feel like the HD800 could use a touch more warmth to be honest. Master 11 is a very neutral and transparent DAC/amp combo with a slight hint of warmth I would say. I find it quite enjoyable but for the HD800 specifically I would like something with more warmth. For more warmth, a NOS version of the product might be more suitable? I have yet to hear the NOS-11 myself so don't take my word for it that it would give a smoother/warmer sound. But most impressions that I have been reading about Audio Gd NOS products seems to point that way.


----------



## citraian

Master 9 with HD800 here. For the money you can't get better than this, at least from my experience


----------



## kelly200269

fltws said:


> I feel people who prefer a  more "forgiving" headphone instead of an "unforgiving" headphone have a perfectly valid point. It's about enjoying what you listen to and is why I intend to have several options available, to accommodate the variability in the recordings.
> 
> For twelve years I was perfectly satisfied with my vintage Sony Walkman CD and either Bose QC15's or the little in-ear Bose model for my walks. But then I fell off the wagon after I purchased an Oppo 105D to replace a 9 year old DVD player (which broke) and 9 year old BRD player (that was pretty bare bones) and heard what the 105D's headphone amp was capable of, and it was all downhill from there. "Just when I thought I was out..."
> 
> ...



Listening to the HD800's is exhilarating and intense, as it really draws you into the music. You feel like you're on stage with the orchestra. I think this set of headphones demands and expects your full attention when listening, unlike other sets where you can 'dip in and out' of the music. I love listening to the HD800's when I want to really concentrate on the music. 
The trouble is sometimes you don't want to be that involved with the music, and just want to be entertained. I find my Beyerdynamic T1's a useful tonic for willing ears but a tired brain!


----------



## Sorrodje

lenroot77 said:


> If your looking for smooth you may try the AGD Dac-19 (or other AGD r2r dac) and a liquid carbon. Lots of talk about this combo here on headfi. After reading much about it myself I went this route. I believe it's a lot of bang for the buck for an HD800 setup.


 
  
  
 Heard the liquid Carbon ( at home during a few weeks) and wasn't that fan. It's convenient but not that stellar sounding.  I'd probably take a Modi (probably Multibit but I didn't hear it yet)  / Vali2 over a DAC19/Liquid carbon combo.  
  
 I'm an "old" HD800 owner now and my experience teached me the best option is to go to the best value for cheap while we're saving for the real totl stuff.


----------



## Rozenberg

lukeap69 said:


> Having said all the above, if you are looking for both DAC and amp, check Master 11.


 
 I plan to put the amp on separate desk so no DAC is maybe better.
  


citraian said:


> Master 9 with HD800 here. For the money you can't get better than this, at least from my experience


 
 Nice. Are the outputs of the M9 parallel? I mean can you plug 2 headphones at the same time and they both output sound?


----------



## thefitz

mikepio said:


> I also find it very hard to sit back and relax with the HD800 at normal listening levels


 
 If the LCD-3F is the king of "sit back and relax", I'll take the SD800 every time, IMO


----------



## citraian

I didn't try putting two headphones on at the same time due to OCD reasons ) You can send them an email about this to find out the details. It should work from what I know.


----------



## Xeculus

Any recommendations for great balanced cables?
  
 Norne Draug2, Nordost, etc come to mind


----------



## MikePio

thefitz said:


> If the LCD-3F is the king of "sit back and relax", I'll take the SD800 every time, IMO


 
  
 The HD800 definitely demands attention! Makes other headphones sound boring almost lol... Everytime I listen to a new album I can't believe how spacious and huge the sound is, it almost feels like there is so much air and space between the notes, they for sure are my end game headphone. I have always had and enjoy headphone that are detailed and spacious with a large soundstage, and the HD800 is the king in that.


----------



## SearchOfSub

Yeah, until the hidden knife come alive and decide to start piercing on your ears.

I suggest soridge mod.


----------



## kelly200269

searchofsub said:


> Yeah, until the hidden knife come alive and decide to start piercing on your ears.
> 
> I suggest soridge mod.



I've never experienced the 'knife', and I think quality of the source/headphone amplifier is key in preventing any audio nasties.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Rozenberg

searchofsub said:


> Yeah, until the hidden knife come alive and decide to start piercing on your ears.
> 
> I suggest soridge mod.




People are different from each others.
I've never had any major issue with the piercing treble, although I've to admit it made me unable to listen to my badly mastered J-rock, but in most cases it didn't bother me.

Though overall I will still recommend Sorrodje's mod too.


----------



## MWSVette

rozenberg said:


> People are different from each others.
> I've never had any major issue with the piercing treble, although I've to admit it made me unable to listen to my badly mastered J-rock, but in most cases it didn't bother me.
> 
> Though overall I will still recommend Sorrodje's mod too.


 
 Exactly.
  
 I too have had no trouble with the knife.
  
 But to add Sorrodje's mod comes highly recommended by the who do have that problem...


----------



## MikePio

searchofsub said:


> Yeah, until the hidden knife come alive and decide to start piercing on your ears.
> 
> I suggest soridge mod.


 
  
 Never really had the desire to MOD the HD800. I never had a problem with piercing treble, I would even say that they are probably the smoothest headphones treble wise I own. One of the main things I have noticed with the HD800s is how transparent and revealing they are in terms of your audio chain, I know this has been repeated countless times over, but every small modification or change in my audio path can be heard almost instantly with the HD800's, while other headphones the difference is not as apparent. I guess this can be a good and bad thing. I would have a really hard time recommending these headphones to most people, they are just too picky. Perhaps I have an excessively warm and colored set-up that mitigates the treble spike but whatever it is, the sound is always smooth, warm and spacious. I think the biggest downfall of the HD800 (and this has been somewhat lessened by the HD800S) is how they have the ability to sound marvelous and majestic on one system and sharp and sterile on another. If I look at my chain, it revolves completely around the HD800, when buying new components I always had the mentality and goal that I wanted to preserve the transparency and soundstage while injecting some warmth and pleasant euphonics into them. I think I am at a point where majority of the "flaws" or undesired traits of these headphones have been remedied with my audio chain (even if it is not optimal in terms logical sound engineering principles, EX- adding tube buffer into chain) the end result is always the same, reaching a perfect equilibrium. Ultimately the HD800s are not user friendly and demand a system to be built around them but once the pieces start to fit together, it is worth the time, money and patience.


----------



## MWSVette

mikepio said:


> Never really had the desire to MOD the HD800. I never had a problem with piercing treble, I would even say that they are probably the smoothest headphones treble wise I own. One of the main things I have noticed with the HD800s is how transparent and revealing they are in terms of your audio chain, I know this has been repeated countless times over, but every small modification or change in my audio path can be heard almost instantly with the HD800's, while other headphones the difference is not as apparent. I guess this can be a good and bad thing. I would have a really hard time recommending these headphones to most people, they are just too picky. Perhaps I have an excessively warm and colored set-up that mitigates the treble spike but whatever it is, the sound is always smooth, warm and spacious. I think the biggest downfall of the HD800 (and this has been somewhat lessened by the HD800S) is how they have the ability to sound marvelous and majestic on one system and sharp and sterile on another. If I look at my chain, it revolves completely around the HD800, when buying new components I always had the mentality and goal that I wanted to preserve the transparency and soundstage while injecting some warmth and pleasant euphonics into them. I think I am at a point where majority of the "flaws" or undesired traits of these headphones have been remedied with my audio chain (even if it is not optimal in terms logical sound engineering principles, EX- adding tube buffer into chain) the end result is always the same, reaching a perfect equilibrium. Ultimately the HD800s are not user friendly and demand a system to be built around them but once the pieces start to fit together, it is worth the time, money and patience.


 
 I agree 100%


----------



## mysticstryk

Just received my hd800 today!

Running them on my Bifrost/Valhalla 2 system. My current reference headphones have been the hd650 for the last year or so. 

The SDR mod is installed. 

Need some music recommendations here to really test the soundstage. The type of orchestrations I like are stuff like The Planets by Gustav Holst and soundtracks like The Last Samurai.


----------



## FLTWS

mysticstryk said:


> Just received my hd800 today!
> 
> Running them on my Bifrost/Valhalla 2 system. My current reference headphones have been the hd650 for the last year or so.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I always use these 5 (at least) for evaluation. Mine are all CD's but they may have down loads available as well.
  
 1. Dr Chesky's Ultimate Headphone Demonstration Disc: Chesky JD361
 2. The Sheffield/XLO Test and Burn-in CD: Sheffield Lab 10041-2-T
 3. Respighi Ancient Airs and Dances: Mercury Living Presence 434-304-2 (especially track 18)
 4. Wagner and Prokofiev Excerpts: Sheffield Labs CD 7/8
 5. Brittens Orchestra: Reference Recordings HDCD RR120
  
 Note: My HD800 started getting better in sound after about 100 hours of burn-in.


----------



## mysticstryk

fltws said:


> I always use these 5 (at least) for evaluation. Mine are all CD's but they may have down loads available as well.
> 
> 1. Dr Chesky's Ultimate Headphone Demonstration Disc: Chesky JD361
> 2. The Sheffield/XLO Test and Burn-in CD: Sheffield Lab 10041-2-T
> ...




Thanks!

General orchestra/classical/soundtrack recommendations are welcome as well. I have a feeling my listening time with those genres are about to go way up. 

Currently really enjoying the Interstellar soundtrack right now.


----------



## FLTWS

mysticstryk said:


> Thanks!
> 
> General orchestra/classical/soundtrack recommendations are welcome as well. I have a feeling my listening time with those genres are about to go way up.
> 
> Currently really enjoying the Interstellar soundtrack right now.


 
  
 I've got about 150 film soundtracks myself but have never listened critically for sound stage specifics. I don't do it with my rock or jazz either.
  
 Some suggestions: I just eyeballed this section in my CD collection and these just jumped out at me, I could listen to any of these right now,  but we're deep into college football season presently. Probably do a a few tomorrow AM with my morning Joe! I indicated composer names where there could be multiple films with the same or similar names. I was going to put some favorites on this list in bold, but dam, there all favorites of mine. LOL
  
 Batman Begins / Beowulf / Chronicles of Narnia (the first one) / Conan the Barbarian (the 2 disc re-make) / The Descent / The Fifth Element / Hitman / King Arthur (Has Zimmer) / Kingdom of Heaven / King Kong (James Newton Howard) / Last of the Mohicans (Trevor Jones  Randy Edelman) / Let the Right One In (Soderqvist) / Mothman Prophesies / The New World / The Revenant / Signs / Snow Falling on Cedars / Stoker / Transformers (the 1st one) / Troy / Unbreakable / Under the Skin / Unstoppable / The Village / Van Helsing.


----------



## mysticstryk

fltws said:


> I've got about 150 film soundtracks myself but have never listened critically for sound stage specifics. I don't do it with my rock or jazz either.
> 
> Some suggestions: I just eyeballed this section in my CD collection and these just jumped out at me, I could listen to any of these right now,  but we're deep into college football season presently. Probably do a a few tomorrow AM with my morning Joe! I indicated composer names where there could be multiple films with the same or similar names. I was going to put some favorites on this list in bold, but dam, there all favorites of mine. LOL
> 
> Batman Begins / Beowulf / Chronicles of Narnia (the first one) / Conan the Barbarian (the 2 disc re-make) / The Descent / The Fifth Element / Hitman / King Arthur (Has Zimmer) / Kingdom of Heaven / King Kong (James Newton Howard) / Last of the Mohicans (Trevor Jones  Randy Edelman) / Let the Right One In (Soderqvist) / Mothman Prophesies / The New World / The Revenant / Signs / Snow Falling on Cedars / Stoker / Transformers (the 1st one) / Troy / Unbreakable / Under the Skin / Unstoppable / The Village / Van Helsing.




Batman begins is indeed a fantastic soundtrack. Thanks for the suggestions, adding some of them on tidal now.


----------



## MikePio

mysticstryk said:


> Just received my hd800 today!
> 
> Running them on my Bifrost/Valhalla 2 system. My current reference headphones have been the hd650 for the last year or so.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Enjoy!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Will be looking forward to your impressions once you get some hours on them. One thing is for certain, they will be completely different than the HD650's!


----------



## lui_boy

I have the HD800 balanced with the HDVD800 and do not have issues with treble spikes or sibilance. My only complaint there is the DAC. Single ended to the Grace m9XX also do not have issues with treble spikes or sibilance. My only complaint there is the Amp, which works fine for what it is, but lacks punch and extension.


----------



## Hansotek

xeculus said:


> Any recommendations for great balanced cables?
> 
> Norne Draug2, Nordost, etc come to mind




Norne Draug 2 and WyWires Red are both a strong value. 

Double Helix makes some nice stuff, though I've only tried a few of their products. I have an DHC 8-wire Neucleotide Macromolecule OCC balanced cable and it is very balanced with smoother highs and fuller bass, an extremely emotionally engaging midrange and vastly improved layering in terms of soundstage depth imaging. I think the equivalent cable sells for about $550, but you can DIY one for under $200, I think.

My favorite is probably the DanaCable Lazuli (which just dropped the $649). That one is much fuller through the mids and bass and extremely controlled up top. Separation improves very noticeably and details start approaching SE-009 levels. It is by far the best cable I've heard with the HD800, and easily bests the Kimber Axios, which retails for $300 more than the Dana.


----------



## mysticstryk

mikepio said:


> Enjoy!!   Will be looking forward to your impressions once you get some hours on them. One thing is for certain, they will be completely different than the HD650's!




Already really enjoying the clarity. Distortion levels must be fantastic.


----------



## Me x3

mysticstryk said:


> Just received my hd800 today!
> 
> Running them on my Bifrost/Valhalla 2 system. My current reference headphones have been the hd650 for the last year or so.
> 
> ...


 
 "Sessions From The 17th Ward" by Amber Rubarth is a must-have


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

mysticstryk said:


> Just received my hd800 today!
> 
> Running them on my Bifrost/Valhalla 2 system. My current reference headphones have been the hd650 for the last year or so.
> 
> ...


 
 Der Ring des Nibelungen (Georg Solti & Vienna Philharmonic). I could add others, but that will do.


----------



## FLTWS

hansotek said:


> ...
> 
> My favorite is probably the DanaCable Lazuli (which just dropped the $649). That one is much fuller through the mids and bass and extremely controlled up top. Separation improves very noticeably and details start approaching SE-009 levels. It is by far the best cable I've heard with the HD800, and easily bests the Kimber Axios, which retails for $300 more than the Dana.


 
  
 I've been waiting with bated breath since you announced that you had one you were evaluating.
  
 PS: How's the flexibility of the cable and is the exterior jacket noisy if at rubs against furniture or clothing? I'm currently using 10 ft of Moon Audio Black Dragon and it is extremely flexible and has a very smooth exterior jacket.
  
 Thanks


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Der Ring des Nibelungen (Georg Solti & Vienna Philharmonic). I could add others, but that will do.


 
  
 The one Ring to rule them all!


----------



## Kelvin Lee

what headphone has a better soundstage and imaging vs HD800 ?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

kelvin lee said:


> what headphone has a better soundstage and imaging vs HD800 ?


 
  
 If you mean wider, probably none.  The Abyss is very close and the K1000 is about in par from what I recall.
  
 There are others, however, that offer better separation or 'air' that have narrower stages (to SR-009's and Utopia's, for example).  So I guess it depends on what you mean by 'better'.


----------



## Me x3

kelvin lee said:


> what headphone has a better soundstage and imaging vs HD800 ?


 

 T1.1 can be more focused and more circular. Similar depth, less width.
 Better or worse is a matter of preference, I think.


----------



## Hansotek

fltws said:


> I've been waiting with bated breath since you announced that you had one you were evaluating.
> 
> PS: How's the flexibility of the cable and is the exterior jacket noisy if at rubs against furniture or clothing? I'm currently using 10 ft of Moon Audio Black Dragon and it is extremely flexible and has a very smooth exterior jacket.
> 
> Thanks




I will have a review out by the end of the month. I'm reviewing Dana's new reference cable for the Abyss in combination with his standard cables. I had to get the Questyle Golden review out first for this month first.

To answer your questions, the upper portion of the cable above the split is fairly stiff, being that it is short and the cable is extremely thick. In regular operation, it is fine, but it does not twist easily when you are trying to plug it in for the first time. After the split, it is fairly flexible - not as much as a thin cable, but I have no complaints whatsoever. If you train it to coil neatly, it will be the easiest cable you'll ever have to maintain.

The cable has an excellent sheath with zero microponics or noise whatsoever. Couldn't ask for better there.


----------



## paulchiu

kelvin lee said:


> what headphone has a better soundstage and imaging vs HD800 ?


 
  
 Kelvin,
  
 Are you asking about accuracy of the presentation or in the realm of outside head experience?
  
 Paul


----------



## Rozenberg

kelvin lee said:


> what headphone has a better soundstage and imaging vs HD800 ?


 
 Tried to look for one when I was considering to replace my HD800. None.
  
 If it's sound alone, there are some that best the HD800 e.g SR-009, L700 but for soundstage alone, gotta be speakers maybe?


----------



## Sorrodje

Abyss is the only contender in Headphones I owned, borrowed or heard.  HE60 and SR007 offer a very very good staging but not that holographic presentation HD800 and Abyss can offer.  We should remember no headstage is really "natural" ( aka true to real life) . Speakers are more realistic imo and recordings are most of the time made to be listened on speakers.
  
 HD800 staging is top notch with best amps , especialy tube ones.  it can be meh (left/right with a serious lack of depth and focus) with inappropiate amping. Still IME and IMO.


----------



## FLTWS

hansotek said:


> I will have a review out by the end of the month. I'm reviewing Dana's new reference cable for the Abyss in combination with his standard cables. I had to get the Questyle Golden review out first for this month first.
> 
> To answer your questions, the upper portion of the cable above the split is fairly stiff, being that it is short and the cable is extremely thick. In regular operation, it is fine, but it does not twist easily when you are trying to plug it in for the first time. After the split, it is fairly flexible - not as much as a thin cable, but I have no complaints whatsoever. If you train it to coil neatly, it will be the easiest cable you'll ever have to maintain.
> 
> The cable has an excellent sheath with zero microponics or noise whatsoever. Couldn't ask for better there.


 
  
 Good to know as I just ordered a 3 meter one with 4Pin XLR for my 800 (and will most likely use it on an 800S in the near future as well so it will get double duty).
  
 I get your meaning on the "coiling". I speculate it has something to do with either the way the raw wire is drawn when made or as a result of some winding symmetry in fabricating the several strands into a cable. If I start to wind an hp (or any other) cable (say my Black Dragon) into nice smooth loops, at some point the next loop in the cable wants to fold back on itself in the opposite direction in order to give a nice neat coil. So I just flip it around and let the cable have its way. Not all cables are amenable to this type of coiling but those that do make for a look that's "strike" in storage or on display.
  
 I ordered several of these from Amazon:
  
 Brainwavz Hengja - The Headphone Desk Hanger $14.95 each
  


 to organize my cables and have quick access for swapping. They are much nicer and more substantial than one could tell from the picture, all steel, excellent paint finish, the tightening spindle looks like its stainless steel(?), and the underside of the top flange has a rubber underside to protect the shelving finish one attaches it to.
  
 For the phones themselves I've got Oppo HP stand for the PM-1 (sexy), a Bendy Head for my HD600 (good looking, functional, reasonably priced), And my favorite, the Woo for 800/800S (offers free floating for phones like them that have spring loaded, canted ear cups, and the headband support area is wide enough that I think in conjunction with the light of the HD's will not cause any serious compression / deformation.) The design and weight of the Woo base will keep it from ever tipping over unless one uses a base ball bat on it.
  
 Thanks Hansotek.


----------



## FLTWS

sorrodje said:


> ...  We should remember no headstage is really "natural" ( aka true to real life) . Speakers are more realistic imo and recordings are most of the time made to be listened on speakers...


 
  
 No doubt about it, that's why for me, HP sound stage with regard to width and depth and size is at the bottom of my list of requirements. Tonal correctness, transient capabilities, dynamic range capabilities, and stability of image in conjunction with wearing comfort are #1, #1, #1, #1 and #1 respectively.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

kelvin lee said:


> what headphone has a better soundstage and imaging vs HD800 ?


 

 K1000 has an ethereal, holographic soundstage that I find addictive and glorious. HD800 is more prosaic, though perhaps more true to life because of that. Original Omega isn't as wide, but the drivers are tilted, and it images very well.


----------



## MikePio

bosiemoncrieff said:


> K1000 has an ethereal, holographic soundstage that I find addictive and glorious. HD800 is more prosaic, though perhaps more true to life because of that. Original Omega isn't as wide, but the drivers are tilted, and it images very well.


 
  
 I wish you wouldn't say that... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 That is the definition of what audio nirvana sounds like to me! That just makes me want to own the K1000's that much more.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

mikepio said:


> I wish you wouldn't say that...   That is the definition of what audio nirvana sounds like to me! That just makes me want to own the K1000's that much more.


I mean I've written about them at length on this thread. My thoughts on chamber music are forthcoming.


----------



## cthomas

I've decided after 7 or so months the 800 is not for me, I love them for classical and jazz etc but want something more suitable for all genres. Was thinking the 650 I was able to demo a pair, obviously being used to the 800 these came across a little dark but sounded much better with electronic and hip hop. Much more bass presence for this type of music.

I was also considering the 700 as people described them as being somewhere between the 650 and 800. Are the 700 a good all rounder like the 650? And do they have much bass like the 650? Either way I'm selling them, if anyone in Australia wants a near new pair of HD800's for a good price... Let me know


----------



## Sorrodje

Keep your HD650 
  
 What's your current amplifier ?


----------



## Me x3

cthomas said:


> I've decided after 7 or so months the 800 is not for me, I love them for classical and jazz etc but want something more suitable for all genres. Was thinking the 650 I was able to demo a pair, obviously being used to the 800 these came across a little dark but sounded much better with electronic and hip hop. Much more bass presence for this type of music.
> 
> I was also considering the 700 as people described them as being somewhere between the 650 and 800. Are the 700 a good all rounder like the 650? And do they have much bass like the 650? Either way I'm selling them, if anyone in Australia wants a near new pair of HD800's for a good price... Let me know


 

 HD650 is more bassy than HD700, but HD700 is not as light in the bass as HD800.
 HD700 is not as forgiving as HD650, but fit a few more recordings than HD800.
  
 Somewhere between HD650 and HD800... could be, but definitely closer to the HD800.


----------



## cthomas

sorrodje said:


> Keep your HD650
> 
> What's your current amplifier ?




Don't actually own the 650 yet, planning on it though 

Edit: Sony UDA-1 for amp so not the best for the 800


----------



## cthomas

me x3 said:


> HD650 is more bassy than HD700, but HD700 is not as light in the bass as HD800.
> HD700 is not as forgiving as HD650, but fit a few more recordings than HD800.
> 
> Somewhere between HD650 and HD800... could be, but definitely closer to the HD800.




Thanks, sounds like the 650 might be better for me. I do like bass. Also I can't demo the 700 anywhere so no idea what they're actually like.


----------



## thefitz

cthomas said:


> I was also considering the 700 as people described them as being somewhere between the 650 and 800. Are the 700 a good all rounder like the 650? And do they have much bass like the 650? Either way I'm selling them, if anyone in Australia wants a near new pair of HD800's for a good price... Let me know


 
 I, and many others, absolutely loathe the HD700. It might perform well from 50-2000Hz but it has some of the most unpleasant treble I've ever heard. Any 'sss' becomes 'SSSSHHHHH' and any 'cck' becomes 'CCCCHHHHHHHH'. Anyone who thinks the HD800 is piercing but the HD700 isn't is crazy.
  
 But I'm sure an $800 cable would save the day.


----------



## fjrabon

thefitz said:


> I, and many others, absolutely loathe the HD700. It might perform well from 50-2000Hz but it has some of the most unpleasant treble I've ever heard. Any 'sss' becomes 'SSSSHHHHH' and any 'cck' becomes 'CCCCHHHHHHHH'. Anyone who thinks the HD800 is piercing but the HD700 isn't is crazy.
> 
> But I'm sure an $800 cable would save the day.


 

 yeah, I mean I guess unti to unit variation and everybody hears differently and all that, but I just can't imagine thinking that the HD700 treble was less offensive than the HD800.  The HD700 has the worst treble of any headphone I've ever heard except the old Grado SR325i.


----------



## JaZZ

cthomas said:


> I've decided after 7 or so months the 800 is not for me, I love them for classical and jazz etc but want something more suitable for all genres. Was thinking the 650 I was able to demo a pair, obviously being used to the 800 these came across a little dark but sounded much better with electronic and hip hop. Much more bass presence for this type of music.
> 
> I was also considering the 700 as people described them as being somewhere between the 650 and 800. Are the 700 a good all rounder like the 650? And do they have much bass like the 650? Either way I'm selling them, if anyone in Australia wants a near new pair of HD800's for a good price... Let me know


 
  
 Honestly, I would keep the HD 800 and equalize it. This will make it a genre master, and you'll be surprised about the bass it's capable of. The icing on the cake would be a damping modification.


----------



## mysticstryk

cthomas said:


> I've decided after 7 or so months the 800 is not for me, I love them for classical and jazz etc but want something more suitable for all genres. Was thinking the 650 I was able to demo a pair, obviously being used to the 800 these came across a little dark but sounded much better with electronic and hip hop. Much more bass presence for this type of music.
> 
> I was also considering the 700 as people described them as being somewhere between the 650 and 800. Are the 700 a good all rounder like the 650? And do they have much bass like the 650? Either way I'm selling them, if anyone in Australia wants a near new pair of HD800's for a good price... Let me know




I would rather step down to the 500 series than use the 700. 

Most people generally only reference the 600/650/800 when talking about high end sennheisers for a reason.


----------



## MWSVette

mysticstryk said:


> I would rather step down to the 500 series than use the 700.
> 
> Most people generally only reference the 600/650/800 when talking about high end sennheisers for a reason.


 
  
 I own the HD598, HD600, HD700 and HD800.  They are all audiophile high end Sennheisers.  
  
 I personally find the HD700 to be a highly underrated set of headphones.  Particularly at the price they are currently available.
  
 IMHO of course...


----------



## acap13

kelvin lee said:


> what headphone has a better soundstage and imaging vs HD800 ?




I guess it depends on which source you are using..i have heard akg k812 with mojo and it simply fabalous in terms of depth to an extend which could challenge HD800/S with mojo.Width wise still bested by hd800 but source and amplifier really plays a major role.i guess akg k812 is really underrated in headfi. By the way,i am the owner of hd800S.


----------



## fjrabon

acap13 said:


> I guess it depends on which source you are using..i have heard akg k812 with mojo and it simply fabalous in terms of depth to an extend which could challenge HD800/S with mojo.Width wise still bested by hd800 but source and amplifier really plays a major role.i guess akg k812 is really underrated in headfi. By the way,i am the owner of hd800S.


 

 I think everybody I've heard loved the K812 soundstage wise, it was the sound signature that people couldn't deal with, for the most part.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

thefitz said:


> I, and many others, absolutely loathe the HD700. It might perform well from 50-2000Hz but it has some of the most unpleasant treble I've ever heard. Any 'sss' becomes 'SSSSHHHHH' and any 'cck' becomes 'CCCCHHHHHHHH'. Anyone who thinks the HD800 is piercing but the HD700 isn't is crazy.
> 
> But I'm sure an $800 cable would save the day.


 
 A nice tube amp and a multibit DAC will tame HD800 pretty well (Vali/Mimby is my rec for starter set). Also, @DavidMahler  is on the record differentiating between the early HD800s which have a fuller sound and the later ones that have an airier sound. I'm 6xxx, and I'm not sure which this is, but it certainly /sounds/ very full. If you have/get an earlier SN, this might help you with loving HD800.


----------



## thefitz

bosiemoncrieff said:


> A nice tube amp and a multibit DAC will tame HD800 pretty well (Vali/Mimby is my rec for starter set). Also, @DavidMahler  is on the record differentiating between the early HD800s which have a fuller sound and the later ones that have an airier sound. I'm 6xxx, and I'm not sure which this is, but it certainly /sounds/ very full. If you have/get an earlier SN, this might help you with loving HD800.


 

 Oh, I love my HD800 SD. I'm referring to the HD700, which makes me angry thinking about. I honestly believe that anybody who likes the HD700 is just being difficult and stubborn, and there are plenty of those folks in this hobby.


----------



## lenroot77

To the guy looking to get rid of the hd800's I'd highly recommend trying the Sonarworks software before you get rid of them. There's a free trial on their website. For me it was an easy purchase (software) after hearing the hd800's with it. 

Personally I'd go for the hd650's over the hd700's if your do get rid of the hd800's. To me the hd700's weren't bad, they just didn't seem to do anything special. Now the first time I put the 650's on I was smitten with those mids! Mmmm mmm gooood!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I haven't heard HD700, but condemnation from the community is pretty universal.


----------



## potkettleblack

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I haven't heard HD700, but condemnation from the community is pretty universal.


 

 Excellent with classical and probably the best gaming headphones available. For the price (they are now) they are an absolute steal if you need a headphone for those reasons. They are also ridiculously comfortable.


----------



## fjrabon

lenroot77 said:


> To the guy looking to get rid of the hd800's I'd highly recommend trying the Sonarworks software before you get rid of them. There's a free trial on their website. For me it was an easy purchase (software) after hearing the hd800's with it.
> 
> Personally I'd go for the hd650's over the hd700's if your do get rid of the hd800's. To me the hd700's weren't bad, they just didn't seem to do anything special. Now the first time I put the 650's on I was smitten with those mids! Mmmm mmm gooood!


 

 yeah, sonarworks with the HD800 is a gamechanger.  Also Goodhertz CanOpener (if you have a mac) is worth a try as well, makes the HD800 soundstage even more magical.


----------



## Me x3

Despite the slightly un-even upper mids to lower treble transition, HD700 is a very good performer and it's among the top picks at current prices.
 I think important part of the hate towards HD700 comes from the fact that people were expecting HD700 to be an upgraded HD6x0, and it's pretty much the opposite headphone.


----------



## mysticstryk

The hate is because the FR is essentially broken and something one would expect from $20 earbuds, not a $1000 (now about $450) sennheiser product.


----------



## Me x3

mysticstryk said:


> The hate is because the FR is essentially broken and something one would expect from $20 earbuds, not a $1000 (now about $450) sennheiser product.


 

 What do you mean by broken?


----------



## mysticstryk

me x3 said:


> What do you mean by broken?




http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD700.pdf

I mean, I guess if someone likes the Grado sound and like to ride the treble waves of an oncoming hurricane.

I'm not saying people shouldn't like it, but it's understandable how much hate they get. Grado still has its fans and many don't mind treble mountains. But these issues** should still be pointed out when advising others on these headphones. 

**Of course a few may not feel these are issues.


----------



## Me x3

mysticstryk said:


> I mean, I guess if someone likes the Grado sound and like to ride the treble waves of an oncoming hurricane.
> 
> I'm not saying people shouldn't like it, but it's understandable how much hate they get. Grado still has its fans and many don't mind treble mountains. But these issues** should still be pointed out when advising others on these headphones.
> 
> **Of course a few may not feel these are issues.


 

 Well, the highest treble peak is only 4dB over 1kHz level and pretty much on the same level as the whole lower midrange.
 On the other hand, there's a clear valley in the upper midrange. This can be a good thing in a world full of shouty/compressed recordings, and normally helps with soundstage depth as well.
  
 The valley is a tad too deep, and 6.5kHz peak is a bit too pointy, but otherwise the frequency response is quite clean.
 Similarly HD650 has clearly boosted mid-bass and clearly recessed upper treble and I wouldn't say its FR is broken.
  
 I agree it's always useful to advice about the headphone's characteristics, but I also understand that different headphones normally fit different recordings, and most of them can be labelled as $20 earbuds when paired with the wrong recordings or don't suit our preferences.
  
 Give the HD800 to the wrong people (those who want BASS or those unable to appreciate its microdynamics capabilities) and it will get even worse reputation than HD700.


----------



## cthomas

thefitz said:


> I, and many others, absolutely loathe the HD700. It might perform well from 50-2000Hz but it has some of the most unpleasant treble I've ever heard. Any 'sss' becomes 'SSSSHHHHH' and any 'cck' becomes 'CCCCHHHHHHHH'. Anyone who thinks the HD800 is piercing but the HD700 isn't is crazy.
> 
> But I'm sure an $800 cable would save the day.




I have heard of the piercing highs. Definitely not what I want.


----------



## DavidA

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I haven't heard HD700, but condemnation from the community is pretty universal.


 
  


mysticstryk said:


> I would rather step down to the 500 series than use the 700.
> 
> Most people generally only reference the 600/650/800 when talking about high end sennheisers for a reason.


 
  


thefitz said:


> Oh, I love my HD800 SD. I'm referring to the HD700, which makes me angry thinking about. I honestly believe that anybody who likes the HD700 is just being difficult and stubborn, and there are plenty of those folks in this hobby.


 

 ​I get it that many don't like the HD-700 but it also has to do with an individuals hearing, gear used, and also music choices.  Many would not like the HD-800 on a bright SS amp and consider them thin, lacking bass and with a nasty spike, I've had a few guest over that like the HD-700 much better than the HD-800 due to the fuller sound with genres that need to have that full sound but if I were to let them listen to well recorded classical then they like the HD-800 or T1 better, even had a one person that thought the SR-009 was crap, but then the music that the person liked was pop, kpop and classic rock, it really depends on ones experiences, hearing and preferences when it come to music.
  
 Another thing I noticed is many go to great pains to find an amp that pairs well with the HD-800 but you don't see this with the HD-700, many just use what they have then blame the headphone.  I own both the HD-700 and 800 and also the HD-650, I've sold the HD-600 because to me they were the ones with a irritating peak which is different from the HD-700 and HD-800.  Give the HD-700 a decent tube amp and it will reward you with a sound signature that I think is better than the HD-800 for some genres of music.
  
 I also have a quite a few Grado's like RS2e, SR-225e, SR-225i woody, SR-60i woody, SennGrado, ypsilon and nhoord driver builds.  The ypsilon makes the HD-800 a rather poor sounding headphone to those that come from the common Beats & Bose crowd.  They are also a better HD-650/600, Ether/Ether C, and LCD-2/3 to a few others that have heard them and they are easy to drive, output from computer headphone jack will drive them without issues.  Try an HD-800 out of a smart phone and compare it to the ypsilon and most will think the HD-800 sucks (as my GF put it) out of her iPhone.
  
 Anyway, sorry for the rant, back to the HD-800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Another thing is once someone like Tyll or other well known reviewer a headphone tends to get a bad rep and many just paraphrase what they read without trying, not saying none of you never had a listen.  And in a way I'd like to thank all those who say the HD-700 is not a good sounding headphone, it has driven the price down so much, IMO its a great bargain these days.


----------



## johnjen

jazz said:


> Honestly, I would keep the HD 800 and equalize it. This will make it a genre master, and you'll be surprised about the bass it's capable of. The icing on the cake would be a damping modification.


 
 Hear, Hear about the bass extension and power delivery capability that 800's are capable.
  
 JJ


----------



## johnjen

mwsvette said:


> I own the HD598, HD600, HD700 and HD800.  They are all audiophile high end Sennheisers.
> 
> I personally find the HD700 to be a highly underrated set of headphones.  Particularly at the price they are currently available.
> 
> IMHO of course...


 
 I totally agree about the 700's being WAY underrated.
  
 There is huge potential in them.
  
 JJ


----------



## Rozenberg

Apparently I ended up in a kinda different path.
 Just received them 2 hours ago, only started listening 15 mins ago.
 Gotta get used to it first.


----------



## lukeap69

rozenberg said:


> Apparently I ended up in a kinda different path.
> Just received them 2 hours ago, only started listening 15 mins ago.
> Gotta get used to it first.




What is that amp?


----------



## Rozenberg

lukeap69 said:


> What is that amp?


 
 Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson.
 Hybrid amp.


----------



## lukeap69

rozenberg said:


> Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson.
> Hybrid amp.




Ah, I've read many good things about this amp. Enjoy!


----------



## Sorrodje

rozenberg said:


> Apparently I ended up in a kinda different path.
> Just received them 2 hours ago, only started listening 15 mins ago.
> Gotta get used to it first.


 
  
 Congrats, I heard good things about that amp ... from people I trust


----------



## HiFiChris

rozenberg said:


> Apparently I ended up in a kinda different path.
> Just received them 2 hours ago, only started listening 15 mins ago.
> Gotta get used to it first.


 
  
  
 Congrats & welcome to the club!
  




  
  
 Is that wooden headphone stand DIY'd or is it the one from Stax?


----------



## Rozenberg

lukeap69 said:


> Ah, I've read many good things about this amp. Enjoy!


 


sorrodje said:


> Congrats, I heard good things about that amp ... from people I trust


 
 Thanks! So far this amp is making me not wanting to leave my room but whether if it's new toy syndrome, real improvement or both, I don't know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


hifichris said:


> Congrats & welcome to the club!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Stax stand copy maybe. Bought it during my visit to Headfonia store in Asia. 
 It just gets the work done, but not heavy enough.


----------



## x RELIC x

rozenberg said:


> Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson.
> Hybrid amp.




I had one on demo for a couple months. It was so good that I bought the Liquid Gold from the final run, lol! I just had to have one of the full sized Cavalli amps after hearing the Crimson. Ever since I ordered the LAu I've been toying with the idea of getting the HD800. Perhaps soon..

Congrats on a fine amp!


----------



## Rozenberg

x relic x said:


> I had one on demo for a couple months. It was so good that I bought the Liquid Gold from the final run, lol! I just had to have one of the full sized Cavalli amps after hearing the Crimson. Ever since I ordered the LAu I've been toying with the idea of getting the HD800. Perhaps soon..
> 
> Congrats on a fine amp!


 
 If only I could find at least the Glass... Though after 2nd thought, tube rolling that many variations would drain my money faster 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yup, now I'm convinced this is a fine amp. I couldn't sleep last night because I wanted to keep listening to my music.
 Setup was Cayin i5 -> Liquid Crimson with Phillips Miniwatt E88CC SQ -> HD800SD
  
 Ah yes, listening to it again reminds me why I couldn't let go of my HD800.
 I already like the general sound signature of the HD800 and the Crimson makes it better.
 Overall smooth, more body and adds extension to the low end and maybe the mids too. There is a bit less treble than I used to maybe because of my i5 too which sounds kinda warm, but since it's HD800, it still has enough extension on the highs and in a good way, no more piercing treble (not that I'm sensitive to it though). Surprisingly and unexpectedly or I could be hearing things too, the imaging is better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Next step probably a balanced cable first, then I'll think about DAC along the way.


----------



## mrmarano

rozenberg said:


> Thanks! So far this amp is making me not wanting to leave my room but whether if it's new toy syndrome, real improvement or both, I don't know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 After much agonizing, I gave the Master & Dynamic headphone stands a try. They seem expensive at $60 a pop, but you get what you pay for. The trim lines betray the heavy duty construction; the stand is more than heavy and sturdy enough to stay put. The Senn headband pads straddle the relatively narrow prop rod, so they don't compress and lose firmness over time under the weight of the headset. Construction is spot on, very tight. Packaging and presentation are top notch. Well worth the money to keep your cans off the deck.Got two of them for my 800 and 650. No regrets.


----------



## shultzee

rozenberg said:


> lukeap69 said:
> 
> 
> > What is that amp?
> ...


 

 Had the Crimson along with the HD800.   Congrats , that is one sweet sounding combo.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Was listening to my HD800 (6xxx) and something Wagnerian—_O hehrstes Wunder_ from the Solti or Karajan _Walküre_ I think—and had a horrible thought: "A little too full, almost muddy, gonna grab the K1000."


----------



## Arniesb

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Was listening to my HD800 (6xxx) and something Wagnerian—_O hehrstes Wunder_ from the Solti or Karajan _Walküre_ I think—and had a horrible thought: "A little too full, almost muddy, gonna grab the K1000."


Wow, never thought any gonna say that


----------



## FLTWS

Quote:


bosiemoncrieff said:


> Was listening to my HD800 (6xxx) and something Wagnerian—_O hehrstes Wunder_ from the Solti or Karajan _Walküre_ I think—and had a horrible thought: "A little too full, almost muddy, gonna grab the K1000."


 
  
 Solti / Decca: I can understand, Decca's full bodied approach to recordings going over the top with some combo's of gear but the 800, yikes!
  
 VK / DG always struck me as lean, bass-lite and bright in the extreme (back in the day). VK's /EMI recordings somewhere in between the 2 extremes maybe.
  
 Let us know what happens with K1000.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Hansotek

rozenberg said:


> Apparently I ended up in a kinda different path.
> Just received them 2 hours ago, only started listening 15 mins ago.
> Gotta get used to it first.




Welcome to the Crimson club! It's a great match with the HD800. They are super musical together. I love mine!


----------



## Rozenberg

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Was listening to my HD800 (6xxx) and something Wagnerian—_O hehrstes Wunder_ from the Solti or Karajan _Walküre_ I think—and had a horrible thought: "A little too full, almost muddy, gonna grab the K1000."


 
 Interesting. First time I see someone saying HD800 too full and almost muddy.
 If anything else, it would be "no bass" or "lifeless" instead.
  


hansotek said:


> Welcome to the Crimson club! It's a great match with the HD800. They are super musical together. I love mine!


 
 Thanks! Been only a day and I can see I'll love mine. It indeed adds some musicality to the HD800.
 Now I'm kinda wondering if tube rolling can be more beneficial but the thread doesn't seem to be active.


----------



## Hansotek

rozenberg said:


> Interesting. First time I see someone saying HD800 too full and almost muddy.
> If anything else, it would be "no bass" or "lifeless" instead.
> 
> Thanks! Been only a day and I can see I'll love mine. It indeed adds some musicality to the HD800.
> Now I'm kinda wondering if tube rolling can be more beneficial but the thread doesn't seem to be active.




I've tried Gold Lions, Telefunkens, Miniwatts and Reflektors. The "Holy Grail" 1975 Reflektor 6N23P is far and away my favorite tube for it. Brings a ton of dynamics to the HD800.


----------



## fjrabon

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Was listening to my HD800 (6xxx) and something Wagnerian—_O hehrstes Wunder_ from the Solti or Karajan _Walküre_ I think—and had a horrible thought: "A little too full, almost muddy, gonna grab the K1000."




The K1000 is a tricky headphone to use a lot. If your brain gets used to how crazy bright and thin it is everything else (even real life) starts to sound too full. I remember a few years back a guy on here (can't remember the name) said he went to the Vienna opera house to see the Vienna philharmonic and thought it sounded too thick after hearing them play the same piece on his K1000.


----------



## Rozenberg

hansotek said:


> I've tried Gold Lions, Telefunkens, Miniwatts and Reflektors. The "Holy Grail" 1975 Reflektor 6N23P is far and away my favorite tube for it. Brings a ton of dynamics to the HD800.


 
 Interesting. Might try but I'm afraid it'll sound too warm.
  
 In fact, I think I already didn't get enough sharp treble from my HD800 recently. I'll probably have to buy new DAC next.
 Someone here told me about DAC-19 before and I realize you have one. Is it in general a bright sounding DAC?


----------



## lukeap69

rozenberg said:


> Interesting. Might try but I'm afraid it'll sound too warm.
> 
> In fact, I think I already didn't get enough sharp treble from my HD800 recently. I'll probably have to buy new DAC next.
> Someone here told me about DAC-19 before and I realize you have one. Is it in general a bright sounding DAC?


 
  
 Not at all mate. Even the treble aggressive (IMO) Lyr2 had been tamed by my DAC-19. Having said that, I have decided to 'upgrade' my DAC to Holo Spring DAC. Still waiting for it to be delivered though.


----------



## Rozenberg

lukeap69 said:


> Not at all mate. Even the treble aggressive (IMO) Lyr2 had been tamed by my DAC-19. Having said that, I have decided to 'upgrade' my DAC to Holo Spring DAC. Still waiting for it to be delivered though.


 
 I'm actually looking for a brighter sounding one.
  
 Your Holo DAC piqued my interest greatly, to be honest. But $2k+
 Kitsunehifi? Holo? Spring? It seems to me they're referencing the popular Japanese novel, Spice & Wolf, for that DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
Where is the Level 1 though? Can't seem to see it.  Oh $1699. Not too bad


----------



## lukeap69

rozenberg said:


> I'm actually looking for a brighter sounding one.
> 
> Your Holo DAC piqued my interest greatly, to be honest. But $2k+
> Kitsunehifi? Holo? Spring? It seems to me they're referencing the popular Japanese novel, Spice & Wolf, for that DAC
> ...


 
  For the Holo Spring, I believe the Level 1/Stage 1 or the basic configuration will have no long waiting time since it does not use Jensen caps which is the reason mine is still not shipped. I can point you to a slightly cheaper price if you are interested, PM me.


----------



## Rozenberg

lukeap69 said:


> For the Holo Spring, I believe the Level 1/Stage 1 or the basic configuration will have no long waiting time since it does not use Jensen caps which is the reason mine is still not shipped. I can point you to a slightly cheaper price if you are interested, PM me.


 
 Not this soon, gotta recover after my Crimson 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But thanks for the offer.


----------



## lukeap69

rozenberg said:


> Not this soon, gotta recover after my Crimson
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha.
  
 When you do, you know how to contact me.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

fjrabon said:


> The K1000 is a tricky headphone to use a lot. If your brain gets used to how crazy bright and thin it is everything else (even real life) starts to sound too full. I remember a few years back a guy on here (can't remember the name) said he went to the Vienna opera house to see the Vienna philharmonic and thought it sounded too thick after hearing them play the same piece on his K1000.


 
 It's a dangerous weapon. But it reveals recordings with stunning clarity.


----------



## Pacifica

I'm planning on picking up a pair of HD800's. I'm currently running a Modi Multibit and a Lyr 2. I've heard that the Lyr and 800's aren't the best combo. Can someone recommend an EQ setting or a pair of tubes that will improve the pairing?


----------



## cthomas

jazz said:


> Honestly, I would keep the HD 800 and equalize it. This will make it a genre master, and you'll be surprised about the bass it's capable of. The icing on the cake would be a damping modification.




Ok, so I decided to give your eq setting a try... Holy **** is all I can say! How much better these have been the last few days has amazed me! I actually have bass! And the highs aren't piercing my eardrums! I listened to them for about 5 hours straight yesterday and just about everything sounded great. More musical, more body, more bass then I expected and I still have stunning clarity! I've been told it's not a good idea to eq such headphones but for the life of me I can't figure why?

The only weird thing I've noticed is that certain some (very few) hip-hop songs have severely distorted bass (like a speaker that can't handle the volume) even at low volume... Perhaps just drop the bass in the eq a little? 

Anyways. Thanks for the advice JaZZ. Greatly appreciated! I'll probably mod them when warranty is over too. Now I need some headache remedy from my listening session last night.


----------



## Hansotek

rozenberg said:


> Interesting. Might try but I'm afraid it'll sound too warm.
> 
> In fact, I think I already didn't get enough sharp treble from my HD800 recently. I'll probably have to buy new DAC next.
> Someone here told me about DAC-19 before and I realize you have one. Is it in general a bright sounding DAC?




The DAC-19 is very warm sounding.


----------



## JaZZ

cthomas said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly, I would keep the HD 800 and equalize it. This will make it a genre master, and you'll be surprised about the bass it's capable of. The icing on the cake would be a damping modification.
> ...


 
  
 Hi cthomas
  
 I'm glad it worked for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I never could get my HD 800 to distort, so it could very well be your headphone amp lacking the necessary power for hip-hop bass peaks with enhanced low bass. (Yes, in these cases it could be favorable to lower the low-bass increase a bit.)


----------



## x RELIC x

cthomas said:


> Ok, so I decided to give your eq setting a try... Holy **** is all I can say! How much better these have been the last few days has amazed me! I actually have bass! And the highs aren't piercing my eardrums! I listened to them for about 5 hours straight yesterday and just about everything sounded great. More musical, more body, more bass then I expected and I still have stunning clarity! I've been told it's not a good idea to eq such headphones but for the life of me I can't figure why?
> 
> The only weird thing I've noticed is that certain some (very few) hip-hop songs have severely distorted bass (like a speaker that can't handle the volume) even at low volume... Perhaps just drop the bass in the eq a little?
> 
> Anyways. Thanks for the advice JaZZ. Greatly appreciated! I'll probably mod them when warranty is over too. Now I need some headache remedy from my listening session last night.





jazz said:


> Hi cthomas
> 
> I'm glad it worked for you.  I never could get my HD 800 to distort, so it could very well be your headphone amp lacking the necessary power for hip-hop bass peaks with enhanced low bass. (Yes, in these cases it could be favorable to lower the low-bass increase a bit.)




Or, try to lower _all the sliders in that EQ curve_ by -4 dB (the max slider adjustment in Jazz's EQ is +4 dB), and compensate by turning up the volume. It just seems to me like the EQ is distorting the output without a digital pre-amp feature to lower the output before distortion.


----------



## JaZZ

x relic x said:


> Or, try to lower _all the sliders in that EQ curve_ by -4 dB (the max slider adjustment in Jazz's EQ is +4 dB), and compensate by turning up the volume. It just seems to me like the EQ is distorting the output without a digital pre-amp feature to lower the output before distortion.


 
  
 That's another possibility. But you just have to take care for the activated «auto» function to have foobar compensate automatically (which is the default setting).


----------



## ubs28

cthomas said:


> Ok, so I decided to give your eq setting a try... Holy **** is all I can say! How much better these have been the last few days has amazed me! I actually have bass! And the highs aren't piercing my eardrums! I listened to them for about 5 hours straight yesterday and just about everything sounded great. More musical, more body, more bass then I expected and I still have stunning clarity! I've been told it's not a good idea to eq such headphones but for the life of me I can't figure why?
> 
> The only weird thing I've noticed is that certain some (very few) hip-hop songs have severely distorted bass (like a speaker that can't handle the volume) even at low volume... Perhaps just drop the bass in the eq a little?
> 
> Anyways. Thanks for the advice JaZZ. Greatly appreciated! I'll probably mod them when warranty is over too. Now I need some headache remedy from my listening session last night.


 
  
 Probably because you boosted the bass and now it starts clipping I assume? So best is to lower the overall gain of the EQ so that it doesn't clip anymore.


----------



## astrostar59

cthomas said:


> Ok, so I decided to give your eq setting a try... Holy **** is all I can say! How much better these have been the last few days has amazed me! I actually have bass! And the highs aren't piercing my eardrums! I listened to them for about 5 hours straight yesterday and just about everything sounded great. More musical, more body, more bass then I expected and I still have stunning clarity! I've been told it's not a good idea to eq such headphones but for the life of me I can't figure why?
> 
> The only weird thing I've noticed is that certain some (very few) hip-hop songs have severely distorted bass (like a speaker that can't handle the volume) even at low volume... Perhaps just drop the bass in the eq a little?
> 
> Anyways. Thanks for the advice JaZZ. Greatly appreciated! I'll probably mod them when warranty is over too. Now I need some headache remedy from my listening session last night.


 

 If you open up a typical dance or electronic track in Amadeus or similar music program, you can see the wave will already be hitting the 0dB limit. Typically 600+ samples per track will be clipping.
 That energy is mainly in the bass content. So if you boost the bass by even 1dB those samples will become 3K or more and squared off i.e. clipping. Digital clipping is nasty, far worse than clipping on a tape recording. So yes, you will need to reduce the volume of the data then add EQ. 
  
 However, most if not all EQ filters can reduce impact, shrink the soundstage and generally flatten the drama and energy of the music as they effectively force the PC to resample the file (it becomes not bit perfect). So IMO an analogue (old school) EQ will work better.
  
 No free lunch IMO.


----------



## JaZZ

astrostar59 said:


> If you open up a typical dance or electronic track in Amadeus or similar music program, you can see the wave will already be hitting the 0dB limit. Typically 600+ samples per track will be clipping.
> That energy is mainly in the bass content. So if you boost the bass by even 1dB those samples will become 3K or more and squared off i.e. clipping. Digital clipping is nasty, far worse than clipping on a tape recording. So yes, you will need to reduce the volume of the data then add EQ.
> 
> However, most if not all EQ filters can reduce impact, shrink the soundstage and generally flatten the drama and energy of the music as they effectively force the PC to resample the file (it becomes not bit perfect). So IMO an analogue (old school) EQ will work better.
> ...


 
  
 Of course any digital equalizer alters the signal in the digital domain, so it won't be «bit perfect» anymore. That's actually the intention behind every kind of equalizing: altering the signal to provide a better tonal synergy with the rest of the chain (in most cases it's the sound transducer that's to be compensated for). It's nonsense to use «bit perfection» as a magic formula. In turn your analogue equalizer will not just alter the signal in the same way, it additionally introduces a bunch of analogue electronics components, hence a massive complication of the signal path with inevitable signal degradation.
  
 A digital equalizer is virtually free of adverse effects such as added harmonic distortion. One thing it has in common with the analogue counterparts is phase distortion. But the good thing about it is that since any kind of frequency-response distortion is accompanied by a corresponding phase distortion, the compensating EQ curve also manages to compensate for the phase distortion. So no harm done, just beneficial effects.
  
 That's why I don't agree at all on your impact and soundstage shrinking scenario, also from extensive own occupation with equalizing. The opposite is the case: An appropriately equalized headphone system will sound livelier, more transparent and more spacious. I can just speculate that you've only heard bad equalizing examples. Admittedly equalizing is a demanding approach. On the other hand, with the curves e.g. from SonarWorks at hand, it should be doable for anybody.


----------



## astrostar59

jazz said:


> Of course any digital equalizer alters the signal in the digital domain, so it won't be «bit perfect» anymore. That's actually the intention behind every kind of equalizing: altering the signal to provide a better tonal synergy with the rest of the chain (in most cases it's the sound transducer that's to be compensated for). It's nonsense to use «bit perfection» as a magic formula. In turn your analogue equalizer will not just alter the signal in the same way, it additionally introduces a bunch of analogue electronics components, hence a massive complication of the signal path with inevitable signal degradation.
> 
> A digital equalizer is virtually free of adverse effects such as added harmonic distortion. One thing it has in common with the analogue counterparts is phase distortion. But the good thing about it is that since any kind of frequency-response distortion is accompanied by a corresponding phase distortion, the compensating EQ curve also manages to compensate for the phase distortion. So no harm done, just beneficial effects.
> 
> That's why I don't agree at all on your impact and soundstage shrinking scenario, also from extensive own occupation with equalizing. The opposite is the case: An appropriately equalized headphone system will sound livelier, more transparent and more spacious. I can just speculate that you've only heard bad equalizing examples. Admittedly equalizing is a demanding approach. On the other hand, with the curves e.g. from SonarWorks at hand, it should be doable for anybody.


 
 You best try some filters in the digital domain, then come back. I know what I have heard. It is also well documented all over the place.
  
 As to resampling not affecting the integrity of the sound, well, that is nonsense, and why there is a mass of bit-perfect DACs around. Resample anything and there is loss and guessing, in an image, in music, it is the same, loss occurs.
  
 My thoughts is to use a digital filter (if totally required) but use one, not a chain of effects, and use it to a small degree. Then you might negate the negatives.


----------



## JaZZ

astrostar59 said:


> You best try some filters in the digital domain, then come back. I know what I have heard. It is also well documented all over the place.
> 
> As to resampling not affecting the integrity of the sound, well, that is nonsense, and why there is a mass of bit-perfect DACs around. Resample anything and there is loss and guessing, in an image, in music, it is the same, loss occurs.
> 
> My thoughts is to use a digital filter (if totally required) but use one, not a chain of effects, and use it to a small degree. Then you might negate the negatives.


 
  
 Hi _astrostar_
  
 Who's talking of *resampling*? That was just you. You know what you've heard, and I know what I hear. And _cthomas_ knows what he's heard. Believe me, I equalize a lot and couldn't live without it anymore – all of my headphones take huge quality jumps that way. But you don't get it for free – it's a rather time-consuming occupation, and there's also a learning curve, beginning with each headphone again.


----------



## astrostar59

jazz said:


> Hi _astrostar_
> 
> Who's talking of *resampling*? That was just you. You know what you've heard, and I know what I hear. And _cthomas_ knows what he's heard. Believe me, I equalize a lot and couldn't live without it anymore – all of my headphones take huge quality jumps that way. But you don't get it for free – it's a rather time-consuming occupation, and there's also a learning curve, beginning with each headphone again.


 
 Point men to this amazing digital EQ with no quality loss. I need to try it for myself...
  
 If you alter anything in the digital domain it WILL be resampled. It is science. It will be reset to another set of sample and the original will be compromised.


----------



## JaZZ

astrostar59 said:


> Point men to this amazing digital EQ with no quality loss. I need to try it for myself...
> 
> *If you alter anything in the digital domain it WILL be resampled.* It is science. It will be reset to another set of sample and the original will be compromised.


 
  
 Sorry _astrostar_, that's not true. But let's end this debate here. I'm happy with my equalizers, and those who dare to try my curve for the HD 800 will be, too, I'm quite optimistic.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

jazz said:


> Sorry _astrostar_, that's not true. But let's end this debate here. I'm happy with my equalizers, and those who dare to try my curve for the HD 800 will be, too, I'm quite optimistic.


 
 Do you have a systematic procedure for setting your equalizers for a given headphone that you can share?
  
 I have seen *this* procedure, by @PiccoloNamek, "How To Equalize Your Headphones: A Tutorial," that is suggested for parametric equalizers.


----------



## JaZZ

ruthieandjohn said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry _astrostar_, that's not true. But let's end this debate here. I'm happy with my equalizers, and those who dare to try my curve for the HD 800 will be, too, I'm quite optimistic.
> ...


 
  
 Hi John
  
 To be honest, I haven't followed _PiccoloNamek_'s thread at all. The time it was launched (the CD era) I still wasn't into equalizing. In a later PM exchange with someone mentioning the thread I was confronted with a method consisting of making fixed frequencies sound equally loud to the ears using corresponding sine waves. But that's a problematic approach since it doesn't take note of the intended headphone-compensation curve – either diffuse-field or free-field –, and equal loudness for all tones isn't really desirable. I'm quite sure it was related to said tutorial thread. Nevertheless, using pink noise is a good starting point. And of course the available measuring graphs. And first of all the SonarWorks curves, if available somewhere on the net. SonarWorks seems to be a good product anyway, so if you don't mind to pay for the labor it frees you from, I would go for it.
  
 Apart from that I could offer you the EQ curves I have worked out for the headphones I own (e.g. via PM). These may just serve as a guideline, because other listener's HRTF may require some deviations, add to this my age-related high-frequency hearing loss.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

It's to the HD800's credit that it can be equalized as well as it can. I've attempted to EQ K1000 at length and it does not respond well to EQ. Certainly if anyone has any suggestions there, I'm all ears.


----------



## Me x3

bosiemoncrieff said:


> It's to the HD800's credit that it can be equalized as well as it can. I've attempted to EQ K1000 at length and it does not respond well to EQ. Certainly if anyone has any suggestions there, I'm all ears.


 

 You could demo DMG Equilibrium, one of the very best and most complete EQ-ing tools.


----------



## Joeybgood

I've got a free SD Resonator mod kit for whomever would like it. I sold my HD800 before the mod kit arrived(today) and , obviously , have no use for it now. Just send me your mailing address and I'll send it to you. My treat! Cheers!


----------



## whirlwind

joeybgood said:


> I've got a free SD Resonator mod kit for whomever would like it. I sold my HD800 before the mod kit arrived(today) and , obviously , have no use for it now. Just send me your mailing address and I'll send it to you. My treat! Cheers!


 
 PM sent.


----------



## Joeybgood

The SD mod kit has been claimed.


----------



## akatyay

Just traded my Ether (Open back) for some a pair of HD800 (cork+superdupont mod).
  
 Impressions (with XLR cable through an OPPO HA-1)
  
 -GREAT Soundstage
 -Separation and detail are both top-tier
 -Mids are a bit thin but I'm likely just getting used to the sound of these (alternate cans are the HD650s and previously ETHER)
  
  
 I'm a fan!
  
 Any tips for optimizing performance?  With the XLR cable and the mods, I'm not sure if there's much else to add.  Considering adding a bottlehead crack at some point to my stable.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I mean, Yggdrasil and WA5-LE will make them sound very, very good.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

jazz said:


> Hi John
> 
> To be honest, I haven't followed _PiccoloNamek_'s thread at all. The time it was launched (the CD era) I still wasn't into equalizing. In a later PM exchange with someone mentioning the thread I was confronted with a method consisting of making fixed frequencies sound equally loud to the ears using corresponding sine waves. But that's a problematic approach since it doesn't take note of the intended headphone-compensation curve – either diffuse-field or free-field –, and equal loudness for all tones isn't really desirable. I'm quite sure it was related to said tutorial thread. Nevertheless, using pink noise is a good starting point. And of course the available measuring graphs. And first of all the SonarWorks curves, if available somewhere on the net. SonarWorks seems to be a good product anyway, so if you don't mind to pay for the labor it frees you from, I would go for it.
> 
> Apart from that I could offer you the EQ curves I have worked out for the headphones I own (e.g. via PM). These may just serve as a guideline, because other listener's HRTF may require some deviations, add to this my age-related high-frequency hearing loss.



Thanks, JaZZ! I have JUST become interested in parametric equalization when I heard the wonderful improvement, both in sound and soundstage, that it made on my recently-purchased LoToo PAW portable player when using certain combinations suggested by Lotoo or Lotoo experts.

That got me started wondering what the frequency response of the various combinations of parametric equalizers was (by way of graphical plot) which led to trying to compensate for a headphone's frequency response, which then led to discovery of SonicWorks and their equalization package (as well as some parametric filter design routines in MATLAB along the way.)

Unfortunately, neither SonarWorks nor the headphones I see you list include the Grados, where I saw such improvement (I have several DOZEN pairs of Grados, but have been experimenting with their RS1e as a starting point). 

So that led me to the idea of figuring out equalization in some structured way. 

By the way, the app Accudio from Golden Ears claims to equalize one headphone to another or to ideal, but I have not seen much improvement in using them. 

I thank you for your offer of curves! I think that unless they include one or more Grados, I would be most interested in HOW you built the curve, via PM as appropriate. Thanks so much!


----------



## johnjen

Being a proponent of using EQ, and in a variety of ways, here's my 2¢…
  
 The one thing you must take into account is digital clipping (even touching 100%)
 This is especially true with bass boost let alone using mids and the upper end EQ.
  
 Right now I have added +16dB at 12Hz with a rather broad Q.
 This bass rocks.
 But then I've been dialing in my EQ setup for a while now and I find it indispensable in order to be able to get my 800's to sing.
  
 And for 800's as a solid starter EQ package, I'd suggest trying Sonarworks Plug in.
  
 It has 2 compensation curves to choose from.
 One has no limitations, extending into the very bottom end and the top end, while the other curve is less 'demanding' of power in the bottom 2 octaves and below.
  
 This plug-in has 'vu meters' with clipping indicators so you can compensate either upstream or downstream or both and not have to hear digitally clipped music.
 And a variety of ways of adjusting its operation to suit your particular needs.
  
 And of course there are other approaches to making sure the DSP stack is operating within it's limitations.
  
 But when you start bringing the bass, that does exist on some tracks, up to proper audible levels, well the results can be unexpectedly surprising.
 A quote from one who heard this bass performance at our last meet was "800's aren't supposed to be able to do this".
  
 They can and they do when properly setup.
 And EQ, when judiciously applied (along with a few other tweaks), can bring out our 800's full potential and the results are simply wonderful.
  
 JJ


----------



## Peti

So after all I gave up and obtained the Sonarworks to see what's all the fuss about. Well, it is impressing indeed. I'm running the trial with the Chord Mojo and the result is pretty pleasant. Mind you, I only use it with my Metal records Right now just listening to Paradase Lost - Draconian Times (needledrop) and Sonarworks overall gives a much nicer presentation fo the music. Soundstage untouched so is clarity, and the whole thing just works to my ears. It's too early to say that I'm a convert, but I'm on the track, definintely. Also, the Mojo is mind-boggling, I can't get enough of it. Will do a shoot-out with my Modi Multibit as soon as my Liquid Carbon comes in (been waiting for nearly 7 months now((). My only gripe is that JRiver will play everything back 44.1Khz no matter what I feed it from. Foobar plays everything back correctly but I couldn't apply the Sonarworks plugin there.
  
 P.S.: If anyone has any clue how to make JRiver work properly, please drop me a pm. Thanks.


----------



## Rozenberg

Hmmmmm, this is hard. While I've been enjoying my HD800 + Liquid Crimson combo very much that I lost some sleep, my mind still being burdened to justify it.
 The perfect solution would be to get 1000€ amp and allocate the rest of the budget to a nice DAC and call it a day. But that means back to drawing board...
 Guess I'll wait til my Liquid Carbon arrives and see how much difference it makes to my HD800.
 This is why the topic about HD800 amping is endless.


----------



## BobG55

*Zana Deux Super* > *RCA 5691 Red Base Vacuum Tube* > *HD800* : sound is : extremely detailed, layered, soundstage depth, bass quite present & not muffled, mids upfront, treble/ highs clear w/ no roll off, voices are great & on some recordings I hear the lyrics more clearly than ever before = best I've ever heard the HD800.


----------



## listen4joy

current setup is hd800+vali 2, this little amp is preety impressive, although i aiming for EC Black Widow in the future.


----------



## Rozenberg

Would love to get Eddie Current Super 7 if possible. It has 4pin XLR out and since I already have such cable on order, why not


----------



## Rozenberg

I guess this is my first time hearing a kinda warmish HD800. Nice bass impact and more bodied low end, but at the cost of clarity and treble extension. A bit muddy, I'd say.
 I'm guessing the Carbon would work great with stock HD800, but not so much with HD800SD for my taste.


----------



## icebear

The mod is easy to remove, isn't it ?


----------



## Rozenberg

icebear said:


> The mod is easy to remove, isn't it ?


 
 In my case, not. The resonators' bottom actually sit pretty tight, I think I almost tore the top of one of the resonator so I didn't continue.


----------



## SteveM324

rozenberg said:


> In my case, not. The resonators' bottom actually sit pretty tight, I think I almost tore the top of one of the resonator so I didn't continue.


 
 I agree, though I haven't tried to remove them.  I think they can easily be removed but some damage to the resonator may occur during the removal process.  I really like the change the mod brings to the table so I'm not interested in removing them.


----------



## Sorrodje

I installed and removed several pairs. just be careful and patient and the resonator will come without damage but yes it can be tricky. That's why  I adviced to order two pairs in the same letter in case of


----------



## ext1

I had to also remove and reinstall the mod several times for comparison purposes and I agree that it's relatively simple to do but needs caution.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

My chamber/lieder shootout for HD800/K1000 is forthcoming, though I continue to be surprised at just how decidedly blah I am about how HD800 renders piano. It sounds like there's a blanket on the instrument, a dullness pervades it that doesn't affect vocals or other instrumentals, which are great (if different from K1000).


----------



## Sorrodje

2-4khz dip


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

so i need to EQ it down for 6khz but eq it up for 2-4?


----------



## Sorrodje

Yep


----------



## Liu Junyuan

bobg55 said:


> *Zana Deux Super* > *RCA 5691 Red Base Vacuum Tube* > *HD800* : sound is : extremely detailed, layered, soundstage depth, bass quite present & not muffled, mids upfront, treble/ highs clear w/ no roll off, voices are great & on some recordings I hear the lyrics more clearly than ever before = best I've ever heard the HD800.




I agree. That tube and amp is fantastic for HD800. Layering, staging, resolution of microdetail, and dynamics are incredible.


----------



## frank2908

One does not appreciate the technicality of those driver until they taken them fully apart 
 check out my build 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/752877/3d-printed-closed-headphones-with-hd800-driver/120#post_12930842
 When modding, I noticed that the silver metal sheets on the back of the driver really vibrates a lot when sounds coming out. When I tried to add blutack to the back of them, all the detail gone missing. Maybe this is the secret to their amazing detail retrieval and imaging capability, along with the ring diaphragm. 
 I made the resonnator out of 3d printed brass PLA, which add a bit more weight to the screen protector. The screen hole is also cut off. The result is the less peak and still a bit "zing" (but no way harsh, just a hint) at high frequencies, so the detail is still there compared to felt resonator.
  

 HD800 driver taken apart

 HD800 internal

 HD800 driver with 3d printed Brass-PLA resonator & stax sr007 modded earpads

 3D printed headphones with HD800 driver
  

 Another view


----------



## beowulf

frank2908 said:


> One does not appreciate the technicality of those driver until they taken them fully apart
> check out my build
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/752877/3d-printed-closed-headphones-with-hd800-driver/120#post_12930842


 
  
 Very interesting work Frank, they're looking pretty good.


----------



## JaZZ

Brave modding work!


----------



## twiceboss

Which is better in terms of soundstage, HD800 or K812?

About the treble too, which one is more forgiving?


----------



## Youth

twiceboss said:


> Which is better in terms of soundstage, HD800 or K812?
> 
> About the treble too, which one is more forgiving?




HD800 has bigger soundstage. Neither of them has forgiving treble.


----------



## TheRealMVT

Just placed my order on a pair! I am curious how my modi2u vali2 stack will sound with these.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

therealmvt said:


> Just placed my order on a pair! I am curious how my modi2u vali2 stack will sound with these.




Not to spoil it, but it will sound great.


----------



## KopaZ

*To anyone who dropped their hd800 yolk holder and can't find it- I have SOLUTION FOR YOU!*
  

  

 Optional:
 Add solar panel onto top of that screwdriver holder, wire some tiny LED lightbulb (christmas tree decorator stuff) across HD800, connect them to the solar panel.
  
 Alienheiser HD9001
 (Now I need to order yolk holder from sennheiser 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## Rozenberg

I'm more interested in your repainted HD800.
 My HD800 has bad paint chips so I'm thinking of sending them for a paintjob, maybe HD700's gray or such but in EU I only know Custom Cans UK for such service.
 Anyone else here with custom paintjob for HD800?


----------



## MWSVette

rozenberg said:


> I'm more interested in your repainted HD800.
> My HD800 has bad paint chips so I'm thinking of sending them for a paintjob, maybe HD700's gray or such but in EU I only know Custom Cans UK for such service.
> Anyone else here with custom paintjob for HD800?


 
  
 Here are mine;


----------



## lenroot77

mwsvette said:


> Here are mine;




Looks great!

I also saw a pair of hd700's painted white by Peterek, they look fabulous as well.


----------



## Rozenberg

mwsvette said:


> Here are mine;


 
 Nice white.
 Lucky to have PETEREK there eh?
 Guess I'll wait 'til I get a 2nd set of headphones then try sending mine to Custom Cans.


----------



## beowulf

rozenberg said:


> Nice white.
> Lucky to have PETEREK there eh?
> Guess I'll wait 'til I get a 2nd set of headphones then try sending mine to Custom Cans.


 
  
  
 Great shots @MWSVette


----------



## woye263s

Newegg is having a massive sale on HD800. Check it out!:

https://m.newegg.com/Product/index?sdtid=9189643&SID=4149de1294c111e68d5bdaebddbba07f0INT&AID=10440897&PID=1225267&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-cables-_-na-_-na&itemnumber=9SIA29P4WC8953


----------



## KopaZ

rozenberg said:


> I'm more interested in your repainted HD800.
> My HD800 has bad paint chips so I'm thinking of sending them for a paintjob, maybe HD700's gray or such but in EU I only know Custom Cans UK for such service.
> Anyone else here with custom paintjob for HD800?





https://www.amazon.com/Krylon-K08991000-SUPERMAXX-Silver-Metallic/dp/B00XG68V92/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1476748936&sr=8-5&keywords=krylon+spray+paint+silver

I used this and this

https://www.amazon.com/Krylon-6-Ounce-Crystal-Acrylic-Coating/dp/B001K65K26/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1476748997&sr=8-1&keywords=acrylic+spray+paint

to painr mine.It's fairly easy to do it by yourself, just don't spray too much at once otherwise paint will start drip (and take forever to dry).


----------



## Peti

kopaz said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Krylon-K08991000-SUPERMAXX-Silver-Metallic/dp/B00XG68V92/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1476748936&sr=8-5&keywords=krylon+spray+paint+silver
> 
> I used this and this
> 
> ...


 

 Can you post a few pics of your painted HD800?
  
 Edit: Also, the Silver Metallic spray is the exact same colour as the HD800 has?


----------



## KopaZ

peti said:


> Can you post a few pics of your painted HD800?
> 
> Edit: Also, the Silver Metallic spray is the exact same colour as the HD800 has?


 
 Nope. it's more glittery than stock HD800, you'll probably have to ask sennheiser directly and ask someone who knows what color that might be (maybe car repair shop, they might have devices that can computerize color scheme)
 pics i posted are the painted hd800


----------



## nojdrof

Hello all, how do hd800's do with classic rock? Found a new pair for $875.00 and after listening to them at RMAF I will most likely purchase them. I currently have the 700's with a nice tube amp (Elise) and just want better.

Thanks


----------



## Arniesb

beowulf said:


> Great shots @MWSVette


+1 Great fotography skills! Looks really classy.


----------



## Arniesb

nojdrof said:


> Hello all, how do hd800's do with classic rock? Found a new pair for $875.00 and after listening to them at RMAF I will most likely purchase them. I currently have the 700's with a nice tube amp (Elise) and just want better.
> 
> Thanks


I say go for it Elise should be great match with HD800. I think elise have best results with T1, and H800series judging by peoples reviews of that amp...


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Don't forget...if you are coloring your HD800s, that Physics teaches us that 

Red Is The Fastest Color.

You can get even faster if you color the amp and cable to match, like I did:


----------



## fjrabon

nojdrof said:


> Hello all, how do hd800's do with classic rock? Found a new pair for $875.00 and after listening to them at RMAF I will most likely purchase them. I currently have the 700's with a nice tube amp (Elise) and just want better.
> 
> Thanks


 

 I like mine a lot with well mastered classic rock.  I do equalize them with sonarworks.  If you use some form of ****HIGH QUALITY**** EQ, I find that the HD800 can excel at any genre.  I listen to everything from classical, to jazz, to blues, to prog rock, to classical rock, to alt country, to folk, to modern rock, to heavy metal, to electronic, to pop, to world.  I could keep going.


----------



## MikePio

This might sound kind of strange but is it possible that "repainting" the HD800's can alter the sound signature?


----------



## fjrabon

mikepio said:


> This might sound kind of strange but is it possible that "repainting" the HD800's can alter the sound signature?


 

 possible, though unlikely to make an audible difference.  In theory the paint could impact the resonance of the plastic support structure.


----------



## MikePio

fjrabon said:


> possible, though unlikely to make an audible difference.  In theory the paint could impact the resonance of the plastic support structure.


 
  
 Eventually one day I might get them repainted, but for now the paint seems to be holding up nicely. I just can't believe how Sennheiser could release a headphone of this quality/caliber and price with the paint chipping off even with extreme handling and care. That is like buying a Ferrari and couple months later the paint is peeling off! That is really unacceptable in my opinion, I think it spoils an otherwise incredible headphone.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I think it's part of why resell value of the HD800 is going down to ~$800, together with HD800S. I'm predicting we'll see it sink to $700 within the year.


----------



## thekorsen

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I think it's part of why resell value of the HD800 is going down to ~$800, together with HD800S. I'm predicting we'll see it sink to $700 within the year.




Its already there if you negotiate right. I got my pair, near mint condition in box, for sub $700.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

thekorsen said:


> Its already there if you negotiate right. I got my pair, near mint condition in box, for sub $700.


 

 lol guess I'm a bad negotiator.


----------



## Rozenberg

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I think it's part of why resell value of the HD800 is going down to ~$800, together with HD800S. I'm predicting we'll see it sink to $700 within the year.


 
 Been so low already in Europe with lowest record of 350€, 460€, 580€ and 650€. With the used price being this low, it's probably one of the best value headphones you can find, together with HE-6 (~700€). Though both require proper amping, but hey that's the fun part.


----------



## MikePio

rozenberg said:


> Been so low already in Europe with lowest record of 350€, 460€, 580€ and 650€. With the used price being this low, it's probably one of the best value headphones you can find, together with HE-6 (~700€). Though both require proper amping, but hey that's the fun part.


 
  
 That is insane... I paid way too much for mine when I bought them brand new. Great value for someone looking to give the HD800's a go, risky but for that price worth every penny. Do you guys also have this issue with these headphones, I have a collection of albums that sound good with the HD800's, yesterday I played a new one and the production and quality left me blown away again. The production was superb and the sound really spectacular. I kind of feel sad though...  since the rest of my collection isn't even close in terms of production. Kind of makes me enjoy my music a bit less to be honest. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I guess there are worse things in the audio world to be concerned about!


----------



## thekorsen

mikepio said:


> That is insane... I paid way too much for mine when I bought them brand new. Great value for someone looking to give the HD800's a go, risky but for that price worth every penny. Do you guys also have this issue with these headphones, I have a collection of albums that sound good with the HD800's, yesterday I played a new one and the production and quality left me blown away again. The production was superb and the sound really spectacular. I kind of feel sad though...  since the rest of my collection isn't even close in terms of production. Kind of makes me enjoy my music a bit less to be honest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I found my answer to that in EQing (flavoring), tube amplification (adds varying distortion and smoothness) and OOYH (spacial manipulation). The way I see it, the HD800 are absolutely fantastic at reproducing audio in terms of accuracy and space, but their stock presentation is heavily biased towards certain genres and production styles. By manipulating the audio that goes in, one can change the presentation out to an extent. Thus I've found specific combinations of these things that can make the HD800s excel at certain recordings more than I felt it did previously, like electronica, piano heavy pieces, or pieces recorded in a very spacially flat manner.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

thekorsen said:


> piano heavy pieces,


 
 go on...


----------



## beowulf

rozenberg said:


> Been so low already in Europe with lowest record of 350€, 460€, 580€ and 650€. With the used price being this low, it's probably one of the best value headphones you can find, together with HE-6 (~700€). Though both require proper amping, but hey that's the fun part.


 

 I tend to agree on the value part in general, some great deals out there.
 Not so much on the amping... that's a drawback to me on the 800/800S. Even if the price is low you're doomed to have to spend more if you don't have reasonable amping already (and I mention this becausue I've had a couple of friends who got the 800 stretching the budget and forgot it would cost them a lot more than they thought, given the required source adding a bare minimum of maybe $400 at best...)


----------



## MikePio

thekorsen said:


> I found my answer to that in EQing (flavoring), tube amplification (adds varying distortion and smoothness) and OOYH (spacial manipulation). The way I see it, the HD800 are absolutely fantastic at reproducing audio in terms of accuracy and space, but their stock presentation is heavily biased towards certain genres and production styles. By manipulating the audio that goes in, one can change the presentation out to an extent. Thus I've found specific combinations of these things that can make the HD800s excel at certain recordings more than I felt it did previously, like electronica, piano heavy pieces, or pieces recorded in a very spacially flat manner.


 
  
 The most I do with my HD800 is add slight crossfeed and I have a pair of black treasures CV181-Z from a buffer (actually makes the sound slightly fuller and wider) though doesn't impart any major tube flavor like a traditional tube amplifier since from what I know it is a cathode follower with 100% negative feedback. I am happy with the sound on majority of recordings, but some few albums are so well produced that the difference is truly stunning. I don't think I have another headphones that does that... but perhaps EQ would remedy that to some degree. One day I would really like to purchase a real tube amplifier, but right now I really like the HA-5000 amplifier and it is top quality for SS. Detailed, airy and smooth just missing a bit of substance or fullness to the sound. I think to better the performance in a tube amplifier, I would have to spend lots of money...


----------



## thekorsen

bosiemoncrieff said:


> go on...


 
 EQing the 2-4khz range to counter the dip most HD800s have in that range is crucial for pianos, as their presence region spans from 2-5khz. A boost from 80-120 hz will also help improve the fullness and strengthen the HD800's already lacking polite bass. I use this chart for reference btw, it is extremely helpful for figuring out where to start when EQing for specific parts of a song. Be careful with EQing 4-6khz though, as that is the greater presence region, and upping that too much will result in sibilance and an overly intimate presentation. And vice versa, a decrease there will result in a veiled effect on instruments but a deeper staging experience.


----------



## thekorsen

mikepio said:


> The most I do with my HD800 is add slight crossfeed and I have a pair of black treasures CV181-Z from a buffer (actually makes the sound slightly fuller and wider) though doesn't impart any major tube flavor like a traditional tube amplifier since from what I know it is a cathode follower with 100% negative feedback. I am happy with the sound on majority of recordings, but some few albums are so well produced that the difference is truly stunning. I don't think I have another headphones that does that... but perhaps EQ would remedy that to some degree. One day I would really like to purchase a real tube amplifier, but right now I really like the HA-5000 amplifier and it is top quality for SS. Detailed, airy and smooth just missing a bit of substance or fullness to the sound. I think to better the performance in a tube amplifier, I would have to spend lots of money...



If you ever have a spare $140 try to find a used Vali 2 with some tubes on the side, it's a great and cheapish step into tube audio. Compared to my Fiio k5 it really added a great deal of space and responded very well to different tubes, 6sn7s are especially good on it but require adapters to use.
 
As far as trying to manipulate a recording's overall presentation and spacing, I found OOYH to be a great tool. The various speaker effects each provide different layering and spacing of the music, but I found EQ must also be utilized in conjunction to it as some of the settings have unfavorable dips and peaks. It also greatly benefits from another software to upmix from 2 channels to 8 channels, which can be feed into OOYH to utilize the full 7.1 effect.


----------



## lenroot77

thekorsen said:


> If you ever have a spare $140 try to find a used Vali with some tubes on the side, it's a great and cheapish step into tube audio. Compared to my Fiio k5 it really added a great deal of space and responded very well to different tubes, 6sn7s are especially good on it but require adapters to use.
> 
> As far as trying to manipulate a recording's overall presentation and spacing, I found OOYH to be a great tool. The various speaker effects each provide different layering and spacing of the music, but I found EQ must also be utilized in conjunction to it as some of the settings have unfavorable dips and peaks. It also greatly benefits from another software to upmix from 2 channels to 8 channels, which can be feed into OOYH to utilize the full 7.1 effect.




My guess is the Vali 2 and Modi multibit are the best budget setup for the hd800's?


----------



## MikePio

thekorsen said:


> mikepio said:
> 
> 
> > The most I do with my HD800 is add slight crossfeed and I have a pair of black treasures CV181-Z from a buffer (actually makes the sound slightly fuller and wider) though doesn't impart any major tube flavor like a traditional tube amplifier since from what I know it is a cathode follower with 100% negative feedback. I am happy with the sound on majority of recordings, but some few albums are so well produced that the difference is truly stunning. I don't think I have another headphones that does that... but perhaps EQ would remedy that to some degree. One day I would really like to purchase a real tube amplifier, but right now I really like the HA-5000 amplifier and it is top quality for SS. Detailed, airy and smooth just missing a bit of substance or fullness to the sound. I think to better the performance in a tube amplifier, I would have to spend lots of money...
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the recommendation! I could just use the black treasures I have now, just have to get the adapter. Will definitely put it on my watch list, just to see how it sounds. I currently have the Hifiman EF5 amplifier that uses 12AXU7 tubes (it is a hybrid amp) and I did not like the HD800 through it. So hopefully the Vali 2 will be different.


----------



## TheRealMVT

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Not to spoil it, but it will sound great.


 

 Man oh man! You weren't kidding! Fantastic sound.


----------



## Allanmarcus

In case anyone cares, here's the HD800 in a Sentey GS-1401 Universal Black Carrying Case. Good case for lightweight protection


----------



## Hansotek

My review for the DanaCable Lazuli is live. I know a few people were interested when I mentioned I was reviewing it, so here it is:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1116/Danacable_Lazuli_Reference_Headphone_Cables_Review.htm


----------



## longbowbbs

hansotek said:


> My review for the DanaCable Lazuli is live. I know a few people were interested when I mentioned I was reviewing it, so here it is:
> http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1116/Danacable_Lazuli_Reference_Headphone_Cables_Review.htm


 
@musicman59 handed me his new Focal Utopia's with the Dana Cables using the Wells Audio Headtrip at CanJam this month. Crazy good. I had a long talk with Dana about his cables too. I am a cable believer and his description of what he does is very compelling.


----------



## FLTWS

OK folks,
  
 I just submitted my first review here (or anywhere for that matter)
  
*DanaCable Lazuli SH HP Cable versus Moon Audio Black Dragon HD800 HP Cable  *
  
 LOL, I don't know how or if I can link for you.
  
 Edit: Maybe this will work?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/danacable-lazuli-sh-for-sennheiser-hd800-800s/reviews/17192 
  
 What do you know, it works!


----------



## shultzee

Thanks FLTWS.  Good info there.


----------



## McClelland

@Allanmarcus. Just what I was looking for. Thanks


----------



## twiceboss

Can anyone here compare the piercing highs between HD800 and TH600?

My limit is TH600 highs, i cant go more than that. I want to buy HD800 but people keep telling the highs is too piercing


----------



## icebear

twiceboss said:


> Can anyone here compare the piercing highs between HD800 and TH600?
> 
> My limit is TH600 highs, i cant go more than that. I want to buy HD800 but people keep telling the highs is too piercing


 

 What type of music are you typically listen to?
 The HD800 is telling it like it is, plain and simple. When the recording is great and wasn't messed up in all the production steps to sound great on low end consumer speakers and $10 ead buds, then it will sound great on the HD800. This is a great headphone for jazz and classic as these are usually good quality recordings. If you use a source that boosts treble to suggest "high rez" then the HD800 will let you hear that and this is what people claim is piercing highs. If you listen to a lot of rock and pop, better stay away from the HD800. Just my $0.02


----------



## twiceboss

icebear said:


> What type of music are you typically listen to?
> The HD800 is telling it like it is, plain and simple. When the recording is great and wasn't messed up in all the production steps to sound great on low end consumer speakers and $10 ead buds, then it will sound great on the HD800. This is a great headphone for jazz and classic as these are usually good quality recordings. If you use a source that boosts treble to suggest "high rez" then the HD800 will let you hear that and this is what people claim is piercing highs. If you listen to a lot of rock and pop, better stay away from the HD800. Just my $0.02


 
 Im finding a headphone that can handle 320kbps and above. Mainly searching vocal emphasis songs like celine dion, adele, sia and also any new hit songs that have good vocals.


----------



## Thenewguy007

twiceboss said:


> Can anyone here compare the piercing highs between HD800 and TH600?
> 
> My limit is TH600 highs, i cant go more than that. I want to buy HD800 but people keep telling the highs is too piercing




I owned a Fostex TH-900 & a HD800 at the same time.

The HD800 was NOWHERE as sibilant or piercing. A bit on the bright side, but I haven't heard any sibilance like I did with the Fostex.


----------



## twiceboss

thenewguy007 said:


> I owned a Fostex TH-900 & a HD800 at the same time.
> 
> The HD800 was NOWHERE as sibilant or piercing. A bit on the bright side, but I haven't heard any sibilance like I did with the Fostex.


 
 What kind of music you find sibilant on Fostex?


----------



## Youth

twiceboss said:


> What kind of music you find sibilant on Fostex?


 
  
 Everything.


----------



## Me x3

twiceboss said:


> Im finding a headphone that can handle 320kbps and above. Mainly searching vocal emphasis songs like celine dion, adele, sia and also any new hit songs that have good vocals.


 

 I wouldn't pick HD800 for Celine Dion, Adele or Sia... HD800 is not a great pick for pop music.
 I would prefer the HD800 for Elina Garanča, Carmen Gomes Inc, Amber Rubarth, few albums by Loreena McKennit.
  
 You can check the HD800S which is a little bit more forgiving.
 AKG K712, Beyerdynamic DT-1990, Audioquest Nighthawk, LCD-3, Edition X, Focal Elear


----------



## Youth

me x3 said:


> I wouldn't pick HD800 for Celine Dion, Adele or Sia... HD800 is not a great pick for pop music.
> I would prefer the HD800 for Elina Garanča, Carmen Gomes Inc, Amber Rubarth, few albums by Loreena McKennit.
> 
> You can check the HD800S which is a little bit more forgiving.
> AKG K712, Beyerdynamic DT-1990, Audioquest Nighthawk, LCD-3, Edition X, Focal Elear


 
  
 Pop music is fine, just not the modern compressed stuff


----------



## BobG55

me x3 said:


> twiceboss said:
> 
> 
> > Im finding a headphone that can handle 320kbps and above. Mainly searching vocal emphasis songs like celine dion, adele, sia and also any new hit songs that have good vocals.
> ...


 
 & HD650.


----------



## Me x3

youth said:


> Pop music is fine, just not the modern compressed stuff


 

 Well, it really depends.
 I was using my HD800 few days ago and my brother was listening to 'Slave to Love' by Bryan Ferry on his HD650, so I've tried it on my HD800 and it was far from good, it was more pleasing on HD650. Then tried 'Total Eclipse of the Heart' by Bonnie Tyler, and it was the same. And we are talking about early 80's pop music.
  
 I agree with you with respect to modern mastering techniques (used for pop and other genres as well) being worse than in the old days, but still HD800 is very unforgiving with unnatural recordings. Unless you mod it and pair it with certain tube amp, R2R DAC and so on...


----------



## Me x3

bobg55 said:


> & HD650.


 
 +1 (Thanks)
  
 My HD650 won't forgive me for that!


----------



## citraian

bobg55 said:


> & HD650.



Adele and Sia actually sound great on the HD800 

Edit: wrong quote, writing from phone, sorry


----------



## Me x3

citraian said:


> Adele and Sia actually sound great on the HD800
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I guess, we have a very different understanding of what great means.
  
 Listenable? Yes.
 Can be enjoyed? Maybe...
 Great? Not in my book.
  
 (I don't think Adele is any good anyway, even if properly recorded.)
  
 Have you compared (Adele or Sia) on HD800 next to a similar quality open back headphone with warmer and less bright sound signature?


----------



## twiceboss

me x3 said:


> I guess, we have a very different understanding of what great means.
> 
> Listenable? Yes.
> Can be enjoyed? Maybe...
> ...


 
 Actually I mainly listen to this korean singer. "IU", she has the best voice I've ever heard. The song more likely focusing on her vocals. Just some of them are pop dance.
  
 How about I paired it with Mojo? I asked someone who have both TH600 and HD800, he said TH600 has more sibilant highs than HD800. Do you ever heard TH600?


----------



## kelly200269

icebear said:


> What type of music are you typically listen to?
> The HD800 is telling it like it is, plain and simple. When the recording is great and wasn't messed up in all the production steps to sound great on low end consumer speakers and $10 ead buds, then it will sound great on the HD800. This is a great headphone for jazz and classic as these are usually good quality recordings. If you use a source that boosts treble to suggest "high rez" then the HD800 will let you hear that and this is what people claim is piercing highs. If you listen to a lot of rock and pop, better stay away from the HD800. Just my $0.02



I find the HD800 sounds fantastic when fed with high-res classical music, but I can hardly listen to it when playing rock & pop. I don't think it's frequency response suits that type of music.


----------



## Fegefeuer

do the SD mod and your music library instantly rises in compatibility with this headphone


----------



## Me x3

twiceboss said:


> Actually I mainly listen to this korean singer. "IU", she has the best voice I've ever heard. The song more likely focusing on her vocals. Just some of them are pop dance.
> 
> How about I paired it with Mojo? I asked someone who have both TH600 and HD800, he said TH600 has more sibilant highs than HD800. Do you ever heard TH600?


 

 No.
 Based on measurements, HD800 might appear as slightly brighter while TH-600 slightly sharper but both are similarly bright. The thing is TH-600 has *much more *bass than HD800, so that can mask the treble. If you raise the volume using HD800 to match TH-600's bass then HD800 will appear much brighter (and louder overall)
  
 Share a song of your preference (maybe a youtube link) then some of us can try it with our HD800 and comment about the sound.


----------



## Sorrodje

HD800 is not suited for pop music. period. it can be OK but I can think of a lot of more suited headphones. IMO, YMMV.  Modded HD800 , EQed HD800 or HD800S are for sure more suited but wouldn't be my first choice if I was primarily listening to pop music.


----------



## Arniesb

sorrodje said:


> HD800 is not suited for pop music. period. it can be OK but I can think of a lot of more suited headphones. IMO, YMMV.  Modded HD800 , EQed HD800 or HD800S are for sure more suited but wouldn't be my first choice if I was primarily listening to pop music.


+1 Even thou my T1 is definitely brighter than my HD800S, but on pop and other badly mastered music HD800S appears Brighter. Its just it is more transparent window into music and if recording is bad it shows very clearly.


----------



## Rozenberg

You can enjoy everything with the HD800 if you like the sound signature though. At least that's what I do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But I agree there are other headphones that make Pop more enjoyable, in my experience the HD650 and SR-007MK2.
 The HD800 can sound a bit thicker if you mod it and find a good amp for it. (I thought people back then were exaggerating about amp pairing but boy was I wrong)


----------



## Youth

I'm probably the weird one but I really don't think HD650 is that forgiving as many make it out to be.


----------



## citraian

me x3 said:


> I guess, we have a very different understanding of what great means.
> 
> Listenable? Yes.
> 
> ...



It depends on what you consider to be a similar quality headphone. 
All the headphones that I listened to couldn't touch the HD800. Maybe the old Orpheus but that has some problems of its own as well.
But I did listen to Adele and Sia on LCD-3c, LCD-3f, LCD-X extensively and on other similar headphones for a shorter time. HD800 was above those. For the HD800 you really need to be careful with system matching. They can sound really different depending on the system.

Edit: I actually owned and liked the TH900 a lot but the slight Vshape and sibilance were deal breakers in the end...


----------



## Arniesb

youth said:


> I'm probably the weird one but I really don't think HD650 is that forgiving as many make it out to be.


Maybe its your dac that is less forgiving? I remember that Gumby when i listened with T1 it was much more forgiving than my Arcam IrDAC.


----------



## DavidA

twiceboss said:


> Actually I mainly listen to this korean singer. "IU", she has the best voice I've ever heard. The song more likely focusing on her vocals. Just some of them are pop dance.
> 
> How about I paired it with Mojo? I asked someone who have both TH600 and HD800, he said TH600 has more sibilant highs than HD800. Do you ever heard TH600?


 
 The sibilant level depends on the genre of music for me, as others have noted the HD-800 would not be my choice for pop music or even a pretty good singer like IU (I like Hyorin a little better).  When I got together with a few head-fi members a few months ago most didn't like the HD-800 with vocals, it just sounds a little weird with the overly wide sound stage but for classical or acoustic jazz they are really good.  Most of us like the HE-560 better for vocal genres but even the HE-560 can be sibilant to some.  For pop/kpop/jpop I would chose a more forgiving headphones like the HD-650, SRH-1840 or LCD-2.
  
 And I do think the TH-600 can be sibilant at times, more so than the HD-800 IMO and the mids of the TH-600 are just a touch too recessed for enjoying pop to me.


----------



## BobG55

> Quote : It depends on what you consider to be a similar quality headphone.
> All the headphones that I listened to couldn't touch the HD800. Maybe the old Orpheus but that has some problems of its own as well.
> But I did listen to Adele and Sia on LCD-3c, LCD-3f, LCD-X extensively and on other similar headphones for a shorter time. HD800 was above those. _*For the HD800 you really need to be careful with system matching. They can sound really different depending on the system.*_
> 
> Edit: I actually owned and liked the TH900 a lot but the slight Vshape and sibilance were deal breakers in the end...


 
 I can attest to that *citraian*.  I listen to mine (HD800)  w/ a Zana Deux Super & I can assure everyone that there is _*not even a hint *_of sibilance  sound wise.  I listen to different types of music including female voices without any sibilance or distortion.
  
 The only adjustment/ tweak I make is rolling different vacuum tubes if the music sounds a bit too bright but the brightness is not sibilance or distorted. e.g. I'll switch from a *Tung sol 6SU7 GTY Round Plate *or a *Sophia Electric Grade A 6SL7 *to the *Brimar CV1985 / 6SL7GT Platinum Grade *but I find it's due mostly to the production of the recording & not the headphone itself.  
  
 Another example, a couple of night ago I switched from the Tung sol to the Brimar listening to "Chicago" (best of album).  The brightness disappeared when using the Brimar Vacuum tube & let me ad that the initial brightness was also present listening w/ my HP1000-HP2.


----------



## Me x3

citraian said:


> It depends on what you consider to be a similar quality headphone.
> All the headphones that I listened to couldn't touch the HD800. Maybe the old Orpheus but that has some problems of its own as well.
> But I did listen to Adele and Sia on LCD-3c, LCD-3f, LCD-X extensively and on other similar headphones for a shorter time. HD800 was above those. For the HD800 you really need to be careful with system matching. They can sound really different depending on the system.
> 
> Edit: I actually owned and liked the TH900 a lot but the slight Vshape and sibilance were deal breakers in the end...


 
  
 I do think almost no headphone can touch the HD800 in terms of ultimate transparency, but some are very close and bring some different things to the table so I still consider them similar in terms of sound quality. Despite ultimate technical ability, a headphone is made for the music. I consider my very new (somehow bassier) K702 and my T1.1 similar quality to the HD800. The three have wide soundstage and good imaging, very low distortion at my normal listening levels, and relatively neutral sound signature. With some recordings, K702 sounds best, with some recordings HD800 sounds best, and same with the T1.1.
  
 I don't have enough experience with the Audezes but I tend to prefer dynamic headphones with airy treble and expansive soundstage, if you are like me in that regard, maybe the Audezes (while good enough technically speaking) are not your cup of tea.
  
 Anyway, you might like HD800 with Adele and Sia, and there's nothing wrong about it. We all hear things a bit different.


----------



## twiceboss

davida said:


> The sibilant level depends on the genre of music for me, as others have noted the HD-800 would not be my choice for pop music or even a pretty good singer like IU (I like Hyorin a little better).  When I got together with a few head-fi members a few months ago most didn't like the HD-800 with vocals, it just sounds a little weird with the overly wide sound stage but for classical or acoustic jazz they are really good.  Most of us like the HE-560 better for vocal genres but even the HE-560 can be sibilant to some.  For pop/kpop/jpop I would chose a more forgiving headphones like the HD-650, SRH-1840 or LCD-2.
> 
> And I do think the TH-600 can be sibilant at times, more so than the HD-800 IMO and the mids of the TH-600 are just a touch too recessed for enjoying pop to me.




Yea i like smooth treble that LCD2 can give but i never try it. What i hate is I dont want it to be small soundstage. I wanna feel the wide presentation that HD800. I wanna give a try first. Gonna pickup HD800 today and need 2dyas at least for shipping. Will update later


----------



## Zoom25

The old LCD-2.2 pre-fazor were special in their ability to hold a strong and bold phantom. Vocals were very intimate and that was their strength and focus. If judged based on those pre-requisites, then the LCD-2 was a 10 at its intended job.
  
 HD 800 is designed to be relatively uncoloured (perfect flatness doesn't mean much) and have fast, accurate transients and a 3D soundstage for big pieces. If judged based on those pre-requisites, then the HD 800 is a 10 at its intended job.


----------



## DavidA

twiceboss said:


> Yea i like smooth treble that LCD2 can give but i never try it. What i hate is I dont want it to be small soundstage. I wanna feel the wide presentation that HD800. I wanna give a try first. Gonna pickup HD800 today and need 2dyas at least for shipping. Will update later


 
 I think for pop or tracks where vocals is the main part of the music having the artificially wide sound stage from the HD-800 makes it sound weird and a few others agreed.  The only genre where having the wide sound stage is really needed is for well mastered/recorded large orchestra classical where it rally takes you into the concert hall and sitting in the front row center.
 Also, remember that the HD-800 can be amp picky


----------



## fjrabon

I started to go through and disagree with a lot of these takes, but then I remembered that I listen to the HD800 with crossfeed and equalized, and that I did have all these issues before that.  Now I enjoy listening to the HD800 on everything from the vienna symphony orchestra to Pearl Jam.  I was playing the most recent version of Pearl Jam Ten the other day and was stunned at how good the HD800 was with it.


----------



## JaZZ

fjrabon said:


> I started to go through and disagree with a lot of these takes, but then I remembered that I listen to the HD800 *with crossfeed and equalized*, and that I did have all these issues before that.  Now I enjoy listening to the HD800 on everything from the vienna symphony orchestra to Pearl Jam.  I was playing the most recent version of Pearl Jam Ten the other day and was stunned at how good the HD800 was with it.


 
  
 Just in case the people in this thread complaining about the lacking universality of the HD 800 have missed it: _fjrabon_'s above statement is an appeal to not artificially curtail its potential. With appropriate equalizer settings the HD 800 can be a master of all genres. Just allow it to it and yourself!


----------



## ext1

twiceboss said:


> Yea i like smooth treble that LCD2 can give but i never try it. What i hate is I dont want it to be small soundstage. I wanna feel the wide presentation that HD800. I wanna give a try first. Gonna pickup HD800 today and need 2dyas at least for shipping. Will update later


 
 I should have gone with the HD800 first than go with the LCD3. I almost never use my LCD3 nowadays because the lack of treble. You'll find that HD800 has better balance and soundstage but LCD3 will have better bass/mids. But with my current setup now the HD800 can seriously challenge the 3s on that department too, so yes get a right amp for the HD800.


----------



## thefitz

ext1 said:


> I should have gone with the HD800 first than go with the LCD3. I almost never use my LCD3 nowadays because the lack of treble. You'll find that HD800 has better balance and soundstage but LCD3 will have better bass/mids. But with my current setup now the HD800 can seriously challenge the 3s on that department too, so yes get a right amp for the HD800.


 

 I was amazed at how underwhelmed I was by the LCD3. I prefer the X and XC to it 10x over.


----------



## 13713

ext1 said:


> I should have gone with the HD800 first than go with the LCD3. I almost never use my LCD3 nowadays because the lack of treble. You'll find that HD800 has better balance and soundstage but LCD3 will have better bass/mids. But with my current setup now the HD800 can seriously challenge the 3s on that department too, so yes get a right amp for the HD800.




The 3 was in the running as a possible first headphone for me but after listening to both them and the 800 I decided on the 800. I am one of the strange few tgat absolutely love how the 800 sounds unmodified.


----------



## yates7592

I travelled 300km to a headphone shop specifically to audition LCD3 and came out with HD800. There was just no contest.


----------



## ext1

Funny how in the LCD3 forum people think exactly the opposite, and it's nice to find people that also agree that HD800 > LCD3. But yes in retrospect I would have gotten the X. Cheaper is one (I really regret paying full retail for LCD3, even more) and the aluminium housing is so nice when you're used to cracking wood and wood splinters wandering around inside the cups of the LCD3.
  
 And the discomfort- oh my the discomfort. I could not use the LCD3 in stock form at all and I had to devise some suspension strap mechanism out of robotic kits, surgeon's rubber bands and some padding material to make it usable, and even then it's not comfortable enough. HD800 is clearly the best in comfort out of every can that has touched my head- even trumping the SR009...
  
 Then with the HD800 (at least with mine) there's flaking. Flaking was so bad that I would find black bits inside the earcup after each session. So I peeled off every single flake on my earcups (so they're similar to the velour pads of the HD650 now).
  
 But then in the LCD3 the earpads are freakin attached with 3M tape to the cups...at least Senn does it right with modular production.
 Then comes the driver failures in LCD3 and while I didn't have such a problem one of the cable entry points broke and the metal housing for the cable entry just fell out. It's secured with glue onto the wooden cups! Senn never uses anything so destructive like glue. (the only glue I can think of is the screen protector on top of the weblike plastic protector over the driver).
 And then in the HD800 we have paint issues. Heh, it would seem a arduous HD800 defender will go forever in debate with a zealous LCD3 fan, but, just so that I don't give HD800 too much credit.
  
 Other than objective things like build quality or modular parts I would say it's all personal preference and hence why HD800 is right for me over the LCD3.


----------



## Rozenberg

ext1 said:


> Funny how in the LCD3 forum people think exactly the opposite, and it's nice to find people that also agree that HD800 > LCD3. But yes in retrospect I would have gotten the X. Cheaper is one (I really regret paying full retail for LCD3, even more) and the aluminium housing is so nice when you're used to cracking wood and wood splinters wandering around inside the cups of the LCD3.


 
 Well, since this is the HD800 thread of course the favor goes to HD800 and the opposite is true for the other threads. It's only natural 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  


> Then with the HD800 (at least with mine) there's flaking. Flaking was so bad that I would find black bits inside the earcup after each session. So I peeled off every single flake on my earcups (so they're similar to the velour pads of the HD650 now).


 
 Happened with my old earpads. You won't believe how much bits had gotten inside the earcups because the pads were deteriorating.
 I had to use brush and clean the cups interior gently. 


> But then in the LCD3 the earpads are freakin attached with 3M tape to the cups...at least Senn does it right with modular production.
> Then comes the driver failures in LCD3 and while I didn't have such a problem one of the cable entry points broke and the metal housing for the cable entry just fell out. It's secured with glue onto the wooden cups! Senn never uses anything so destructive like glue. (the only glue I can think of is the screen protector on top of the weblike plastic protector over the driver).
> And then in the HD800 we have paint issues. Heh, it would seem a arduous HD800 defender will go forever in debate with a zealous LCD3 fan, but, just so that I don't give HD800 too much credit.
> 
> Other than objective things like build quality or modular parts I would say it's all personal preference and hence why HD800 is right for me over the LCD3.


 
 I'm actually interested in the LCD-2 to complement the HD800, but buying them used is risky. I actually rarely heard about Audeze failure in Asia so I asked a dealer in my homeland, turns out Audeze still has the highest RMA rate. I guess I'll delay any Audeze purchase for now, although I heard the 2016 production should be more reliable. Can't be sure yet though but hopefully it does.
  
 Paint chipping is still a lot better than driver failure though. Other than that, the Senns seem to be able to last for a decade or so.


----------



## ext1

> Originally Posted by *Rozenberg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'm actually interested in the LCD-2 to complement the HD800, but buying them used is risky. I actually rarely heard about Audeze failure in Asia so I asked a dealer in my homeland, turns out Audeze still has the highest RMA rate. I guess I'll delay any Audeze purchase for now, although I heard the 2016 production should be more reliable. Can't be sure yet though but hopefully it does.


 
 If I could go back and do it over again I'd get a LCD2 used or X used. X's metal housing would stamp out majority of problems with Audeze cans minus things like pads, comfort, driver failure. Getting used might be better since it shows that the cans survived without driver failure thus far but of course there's no telling when the drivers might abruptly die. Also I think the addition of Fazor assembly also affected the manufacturing process, and I think the pre-Fazor models sound cleaner. There's that thread somewhere here that details the LCD3 disassembly process down to the driver and the Fazor assembly wasn't aligned properly with the drivers. And that same thread also showed how terrible the build quality was. But, I wouldn't get the really old versions with no metal housing as connector since it causes cable strain when you have it on a stand for example since the cable entry isn't at an angle and the cable entry point would be wood- the old models were prone to cracking at this part. So, might be worth getting a LCD2/X on a reasonable 3-digit price.


----------



## thefitz

The most comfortable feeling headphone I've ever owned was the HD700. The smaller cups and bigger headband felt fantastic. Until you started listening. Then it was nothing but pain.


----------



## lenroot77

thefitz said:


> The most comfortable feeling headphone I've ever owned was the HD700. The smaller cups and bigger headband felt fantastic. Until you started listening. Then it was nothing but pain.




Buuuuut u like the hd800's???


----------



## thefitz

lenroot77 said:


> Buuuuut u like the hd800's???


You bet, still got 'em. I'd prefer deafness to the HD700.


----------



## MWSVette

Actually you can own and like both...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

The HD700 fans are a tiny minority, though some have become defensive about the merits of their headphones. So we see.


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah, I still don't understand how it became such a mess. It came down in price very hard though. Still a HD650 would be a better and even cheaper choice,


----------



## Rozenberg

ext1 said:


> If I could go back and do it over again I'd get a LCD2 used or X used. X's metal housing would stamp out majority of problems with Audeze cans minus things like pads, comfort, driver failure. Getting used might be better since it shows that the cans survived without driver failure thus far but of course there's no telling when the drivers might abruptly die. Also I think the addition of Fazor assembly also affected the manufacturing process, and I think the pre-Fazor models sound cleaner. There's that thread somewhere here that details the LCD3 disassembly process down to the driver and the Fazor assembly wasn't aligned properly with the drivers. And that same thread also showed how terrible the build quality was. But, I wouldn't get the really old versions with no metal housing as connector since it causes cable strain when you have it on a stand for example since the cable entry isn't at an angle and the cable entry point would be wood- the old models were prone to cracking at this part. So, might be worth getting a LCD2/X on a reasonable 3-digit price.




I quite like how the LCD-2 Aluminium look but we get none of that in EU.
Importing is also riskier since who knows what might happen during transport.





fegefeuer said:


> yeah, I still don't understand how it became such a mess. It came down in price very hard though. Still a HD650 would be a better and even cheaper choice,




When someone/group influential enough to affect the mass mentions a flaw of a pair of headphones over and over, the mess begins.

The HD800 is actually one of em since people keep bringing up the treble peak stuff. That's also why Senn decided to release the 800S and hammered the used 800's price down.


----------



## akg fanboy

I have used the hd700 and I can say it is underrated for the technical capabilities it has, and in my experience I didn't think it was as bright as the hd800. Of course it was overpriced at $1000, but at the current price hoovering around $400 I think It is a great headphone with great comfort, design, and soundstage. However after using the hd800 I cannot go back to the hd700, it is truly a world class headphone that offers a wider and more holographic soundstage, better textured and convincing instrument size, and the did I mention soundstage. The comfort is a little better which I think is due to the better weight distribution. While I don't think the praise the hd600 gets is deserved, I think the hd800 deserves every last bit of praise it gets


----------



## twiceboss

akg fanboy said:


> I have used the hd700 and I can say it is underrated for the technical capabilities it has, and in my experience I didn't think it was as bright as the hd800. Of course it was overpriced at $1000, but at the current price hoovering around $400 I think It is a great headphone with great comfort, design, and soundstage. However after using the hd800 I cannot go back to the hd700, it is truly a world class headphone that offers a wider and more holographic soundstage, better textured and convincing instrument size, and the did I mention soundstage. The comfort is a little better which I think is due to the better weight distribution. While I don't think the praise the hd600 gets is deserved, I think the hd800 deserves every last bit of praise it gets




Your praise on HD800 just burst my patience waiting for my HD800 shipping from last week. It arrives this MONDAY! I will pair it with mojo also i will try to pair my mojo with my friend's Valhalla2. If Valhalla2 can give better sound. I would not think much to get one Valhalla. Do you think another amp that is better in that price range??


----------



## lenroot77

twiceboss said:


> Your praise on HD800 just burst my patience waiting for my HD800 shipping from last week. It arrives this MONDAY! I will pair it with mojo also i will try to pair my mojo with my friend's Valhalla2. If Valhalla2 can give better sound. I would not think much to get one Valhalla. Do you think another amp that is better in that price range??




Maybe a bottlehead crack?


----------



## 13713

lenroot77 said:


> Maybe a bottlehead crack?


 
 I second this. It is a pretty good pairing.


----------



## twiceboss

lenroot77 said:


> Maybe a bottlehead crack?


 
  


13713 said:


> I second this. It is a pretty good pairing.


 
 Will try this Monday with Mojo and Valhalla2.
  
 Yes, I just want to reduce the 6Khz spike and make the bass a lil bit more pronounce.
  
 Thanks for suggestion!
  
 BTW, which bottlehead crack? (it looks like it has to be our option to buy which one and i dont have any idea)


----------



## akg fanboy

twiceboss said:


> Your praise on HD800 just burst my patience waiting for my HD800 shipping from last week. It arrives this MONDAY! I will pair it with mojo also i will try to pair my mojo with my friend's Valhalla2. If Valhalla2 can give better sound. I would not think much to get one Valhalla. Do you think another amp that is better in that price range??


 
 I don't believe spending several hundreds to even a thousand or more to get the slight refinement in your headphones is a worthy investment, of course tube amps can give a slightly warmer sound if the hd800s are too lean sounding for you. I use the $300 matrix mstage hpa2 classic which provides everything I would ever want in a headphone amp and dac for the hd800. I honestly don't think you should be spending more money to upgrade your mojo, however if you end up enjoying the sound of your friend's valhalla, tubes are for you. A bottlehead crack should be a good amp if you are alright with putting it together, you have to order a kit and solder it.
 Hope you enjoy!


----------



## twiceboss

akg fanboy said:


> I don't believe spending several hundreds to even a thousand or more to get the slight refinement in your headphones is a worthy investment, of course tube amps can give a slightly warmer sound if the hd800s are too lean sounding for you. I use the $300 matrix mstage hpa2 classic which provides everything I would ever want in a headphone amp and dac for the hd800. I honestly don't think you should be spending more money to upgrade your mojo, however if you end up enjoying the sound of your friend's valhalla, tubes are for you. A bottlehead crack should be a good amp if you are alright with putting it together, you have to order a kit and solder it.
> Hope you enjoy!


 
 I have no idea about Bottlehead Crack, meaning that tube is DIY version? kinda complicated.
  
 Yes, I will give a try first. If MOJO is enough, i dont even need to buy another amp to pair with my Mojo.
  
 I am better spending that money by selling my TH600 and upgrade to TH900.
  
 These two flagships have different signature and I love how TH600 delivers the sound except the sibilant part.


----------



## lenroot77

You also might try the sonar works (eq) plugin. There is a 21 day free trial. Personally I find it transforms the hd800 into a great all around headphone.


----------



## akg fanboy

twiceboss said:


> I have no idea about Bottlehead Crack, meaning that tube is DIY version? kinda complicated.
> 
> Yes, I will give a try first. If MOJO is enough, i dont even need to buy another amp to pair with my Mojo.
> 
> ...


 
 I whole heartedly agree with using the money to upgrade your other headphones instead of buying an expensive amp, the th900 probably won't fix the sibilance you do not like though. Also if you are wondering if the mojo can drive the hd800s, it most certainly can. It's just a matter of whether or not you can justify spending more to get a slightly warmer sound from the tubes.
  
  


lenroot77 said:


> You also might try the sonar works (eq) plugin. There is a 21 day free trial. Personally I find it transforms the hd800 into a great all around headphone.


 
 I personally prefer using an EQ to adjust the sound of headphones according to my preferences rather than presets, I heard some people say sonar works can kill the soundstage. I will try it to see what I think


----------



## jibzilla

twiceboss said:


> Will try this Monday with Mojo and Valhalla2.
> 
> Yes, I just want to reduce the 6Khz spike and make the bass a lil bit more pronounce.
> 
> ...


 
  
 A project sunrise cable from btg audio will help and not set you back a whole lot. I would look at hifishark.com and see if there aren't some completed crack's for sale that cost the same as the kit. There is also the ECP torpedo on beezar that is getting nice reviews.


----------



## jibzilla

akg fanboy said:


> I whole heartedly agree with using the money to upgrade your other headphones instead of buying an expensive amp.


 
  
 The 007mk1 and hd800 are 2 exceptions. They really scale with well built expensive amp. Heavy emphasis on the well built.


----------



## thekorsen

twiceboss said:


> Your praise on HD800 just burst my patience waiting for my HD800 shipping from last week. It arrives this MONDAY! I will pair it with mojo also i will try to pair my mojo with my friend's Valhalla2. If Valhalla2 can give better sound. I would not think much to get one Valhalla. Do you think another amp that is better in that price range??


 
 I'll echo my last recommendation and how I approach tuning the sound to my preference. Sends me to sonic nirvana with anything well recorded that "fills the room" and the whole shebang is cheaper than most "HD800 worthy" amplifiers.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

So I've complained loudly for a while that piano is really, really hard to reproduce, that seemingly every can i hear reproduces it in an unsatisfying way. I think the problem might lie with recording engineers. I'm coming to the conclusion that most piano recordings are badly done. Too closely mic'd, bloated bass, muddy sound—I have no illusions about the instrument being easy to record, but the Goode Beethoven cycle is one of the first times I'm really happy listening to the instrument. HD800 is totally fine. (Q701 is not bad—soundstage surrounds you in a nebulous sort of way rather than coming at you with the precision of HD800—and certainly punches above its price point).


----------



## mysticstryk

bosiemoncrieff said:


> So I've complained loudly for a while that piano is really, really hard to reproduce, that seemingly every can i hear reproduces it in an unsatisfying way. I think the problem might lie with recording engineers. I'm coming to the conclusion that most piano recordings are badly done. Too closely mic'd, bloated bass, muddy sound—I have no illusions about the instrument being easy to record, but the Goode Beethoven cycle is one of the first times I'm really happy listening to the instrument. HD800 is totally fine. (Q701 is not bad—soundstage surrounds you in a nebulous sort of way rather than coming at you with the precision of HD800—and certainly punches above its price point).




I think the 650 reproduces piano very well. Better than my 800 even.


----------



## akg fanboy

bosiemoncrieff said:


> So I've complained loudly for a while that piano is really, really hard to reproduce, that seemingly every can i hear reproduces it in an unsatisfying way. I think the problem might lie with recording engineers. I'm coming to the conclusion that most piano recordings are badly done. Too closely mic'd, bloated bass, muddy sound—I have no illusions about the instrument being easy to record, but the Goode Beethoven cycle is one of the first times I'm really happy listening to the instrument. HD800 is totally fine. (Q701 is not bad—soundstage surrounds you in a nebulous sort of way rather than coming at you with the precision of HD800—and certainly punches above its price point).


 
 I have heard piano sound great recorded in the xy configuration with 2 mics. You own the q701 and hd800 too, hey that's pretty good. I noticed some haziness when coming back to the q701 after using the hd800 but definitely one of the best headphones out there for value. I like using the hd800 for listening to songs that normally sound bloated which become debloated and much cleaner, I think my k601 does midrange better such as strings and piano but of course on technical capabilities it cannot match the hd800


----------



## Dexon

bosiemoncrieff said:


> So I've complained loudly for a while that piano is really, really hard to reproduce, that seemingly every can i hear reproduces it in an unsatisfying way. I think the problem might lie with recording engineers. I'm coming to the conclusion that most piano recordings are badly done. Too closely mic'd, bloated bass, muddy sound—I have no illusions about the instrument being easy to record, but the Goode Beethoven cycle is one of the first times I'm really happy listening to the instrument. HD800 is totally fine. (Q701 is not bad—soundstage surrounds you in a nebulous sort of way rather than coming at you with the precision of HD800—and certainly punches above its price point).


 
  
 Grand piano is definitely Achilles' heel of the HD800 along with large orchestra crescendos. That ring radiator has serious issues reproducing them same as most estats. To hollow, lacking in body and composure. To my ears AKG are much better in that regard. People are saying Elear is complete opposite when ti comes to piano, hard hitting and substantial but I'm worried I would never get accustomed to its narrow soundstage and 500g weight.  I'm thinking to find an amp for HD800, something like 5w into 300Ω to get FULL grip on them and see where's that would take me. Its a pity Audio GD discontinued their Precision 2.


----------



## FLTWS

Yes, yes, yes, and yes fellas!
  
 I keep wondering if it's my ears. I grew up with the sound of piano music in my home. Almost every recording I've heard sounds as if I'm listening with my head under the top board (caught hell for that as a kid "it'll chop your head off if it falls"), where it can get fuzzy, buzzy, clangy and bangy at times as you hear the piano mechanisms parts coming in contact with each other to create the tone of the pedals and hammers on strings. Close up miking like that can be more acceptable to me say with a violin or guitar, to my ears it never works with piano. Even voice seems easier to reproduce realistically.
  
 Orchestral crescendos are the other issue I have as well, just yesterday listening to some selections of Strauss (Salome's Dance) and Wagner (Siegfried's Funeral March) and Prokofiev (R&J Act III intro) that I use to evaluate different headphones and electronic components. Things sound fine up to say _ff _and then things can get fuzzy, strident and glaring especially in the highs, and not just with the 800, to different degrees with different phones. Things fall apart even more quickly distortion wise with headphones (at least the ones I've auditioned) than with in-room speakers. Maybe it has something to do with the small volume of airspace of the ear cup cavity or asking a single transducer to reproduce low and high frequencies simultaneously at high volume levels.
  
 (IM distortion? Don't think Ive ever seen IM spec'd in conjunction with HP's. Maybe it's my fault for attending too many live concerts during my lifetime, LOL!)
  
 I can listen to jazz or rock at what I consider relatively realistic levels without the same issue to the same degree,I think, simply because the dynamic range requirements of the music don't vary much from the softest to loudest sound being made from start to finish of a piece. A 100 piece orchestra going from _ppp_ to_ fff _seems to be another matter. Small chamber or quartets or soloist type music (except for piano) is not that tough for the phones I've heard, and listening at what I consider realistic levels to those types of music, even if closely miked, is not that hard to reproduce realistically. 
  
 I think I'll spend a few days with my (alleged) state of the art piano recordings this week.


----------



## frankrondaniel

In case there's any interest, I have my HD800 in the For Sale forum.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Would I be better served getting an Elear or an N90Q to supplement my stable and have greater insight into piano recording?


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Would I be better served getting an Elear or an N90Q to supplement my stable and have greater insight into piano recording?


 
  
 There's a $64,000.00 question. I'm patiently (rolls head around on neck) waiting to come up on the list for Elear / Utopia trials to see not only with solo piano but how it copes with large scale orchestral
 And I agree with what you said earlier, I think much of the difficulty lies with how to properly mike for solo piano. Concertos probably just make things even more complicated.


----------



## akg fanboy

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Would I be better served getting an Elear or an N90Q to supplement my stable and have greater insight into piano recording?



I'd advise you try the k601 and give it a 2-3dB boost at around 3.8-4khz, I think it is unmatched for the midrange. The elear will probably be pretty good for piano but really heavy on the head


----------



## Sorrodje

akg fanboy said:


> I don't believe spending several hundreds to even a thousand or more to get the slight refinement in your headphones is a worthy investment, of course tube amps can give a slightly warmer sound if the hd800s are too lean sounding for you. I use the $300 matrix mstage hpa2 classic which provides everything I would ever want in a headphone amp and dac for the hd800. I honestly don't think you should be spending more money to upgrade your mojo, however if you end up enjoying the sound of your friend's valhalla, tubes are for you. A bottlehead crack should be a good amp if you are alright with putting it together, you have to order a kit and solder it.
> Hope you enjoy!


 
  
 May I ask you what his your experience with amplifiers and especially Hi end ones . I mean real experience that could support your statements ?


----------



## akg fanboy

sorrodje said:


> May I ask you what his your experience with amplifiers and especially Hi end ones . I mean real experience that could support your statements ?




May I ask you to conduct a blind test between a $1000 amp and a $300 amp (both solid state) then guess the better one with high accuracy? What is high end supposed to mean? Ludicrously expensive? If I sold my amp for $1000, would that count as a high end amp?


----------



## Sorrodje

unfortunately I did a few blind tests and i think it's a really insightful experience. Differences are not that easy to get but with a few headphones I know , they're significant.
  
 You should try as well


----------



## akg fanboy

sorrodje said:


> unfortunately I did a few blind tests and i think it's a really insightful experience. Differences are not that easy to get but with a few headphones I know , they're significant.
> 
> You should try as well




Was the blind test a proper unbiased one, meaning someone else switched the amps without you knowing and each amp was volume matched to equal loudness for the headphone? 
I tend to trust engineers, nwavguy, and candid assessments over amp reviews and marketing teams that over exaggerate. But feel free to loan me a thousand dollar or whatever "high end priced" amp so I can blind test it


----------



## lenroot77

sorrodje said:


> May I ask you what his your experience with amplifiers and especially Hi end ones . I mean real experience that could support your statements ?



akg fanboy
Still waiting for an answer to this instead of more questions projected to the other party.


----------



## akg fanboy

lenroot77 said:


> akg fanboy
> Still waiting for an answer to this instead of more questions projected to the other party.




The mstage hpa 2 classic is a vey high end amp in my perspective and to many others who aren't obsessed with the whole "audiophilia." If you disagree, look at my questions...
The amount of better sound you are getting even from a $100 magni is not going to be substantially better than a phone with a decent amp, but of course I paid $300 for the mstage mostly because of the design...


----------



## Rozenberg

But again it is easier to say "I can't hear difference between thousand bucks amps" when demoing them at a meet or something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Must be nice to be that kind of guy because he doesn't really need to be tested.
  
 Tyll has covered this topic in his Big Sound 2015 article though. Feel free to read it if you want.


----------



## akg fanboy

rozenberg said:


> But again it is easier to say "I can't hear difference between thousand bucks amps" when demoing them at a meet or something :rolleyes:
> Must be nice to be that kind of guy because he doesn't really need to be tested.
> 
> Tyll has covered this topic in his Big Sound 2015 article though. Feel free to read it if you want.




A lot of audiophiles say they cannot "properly evaluate" the performance of an amp at a meeting due to the noise which may or may not be true. I advise you read a couple articles nwavguy wrote and kindly left up for years even as he retired from the community.
$300 is still an insane amount of money to put on an amp that literally just drives headphones with so little upgrades to the sound. Every review was praising the mstage for amazing warm sound and lifting the soundstage etc, yet I don't hear it. What will be your excuse? Mstage is a bad amp or the amp is not expensive enough?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

akg fanboy said:


> A lot of audiophiles say they cannot "properly evaluate" the performance of an amp at a meeting due to the noise which may or may not be true. I advise you read a couple articles nwavguy wrote and kindly left up for years even as he retired from the community.
> $300 is still an insane amount of money to put on an amp that literally just drives headphones with so little upgrades to the sound. Every review was praising the mstage for amazing warm sound and lifting the soundstage etc, yet I don't hear it. What will be your excuse? Mstage is a bad amp or the amp is not expensive enough?


 
  
 I just want to be clear what I am reading...  You are saying that the M-Stage is very, very highly regarded by both the community and professional reviews but you didn't see value in it, correct?


----------



## JamieMcC

akg fanboy said:


> I don't believe spending several hundreds to even a thousand or more to get the slight refinement in your headphones is a worthy investment, of course tube amps can give a slightly warmer sound if the hd800s are too lean sounding for you. I use the $300 matrix mstage hpa2 classic which provides everything I would ever want in a headphone amp and dac for the hd800. I honestly don't think you should be spending more money to upgrade your mojo, however if you end up enjoying the sound of your friend's valhalla, tubes are for you. A bottlehead crack should be a good amp if you are alright with putting it together, you have to order a kit and solder it.
> Hope you enjoy!


 
  
 Its always good to keep an open mind with tubes amps for the most part I think it’s probably safe to say the majority of tube amp users would have plenty of experience with solid state gear prior to moving to tubes. You always get phrases like warm, lush sounding, rolled off etc bandied around by those who are unfamiliar or perhaps have only experienced low budget poorly designed ones. But the ones designed by those who know what they are doing are certainly anything but.
 It can be important to have a benchmark for reference You mention the Crack as a good match for the HD800,  well The stock Crack has a very engaging sound and its circuit responds well to upgrades so well that you will find many builders go further  fitting things like stepped attenuators, boutique output capacitors and upgraded power supplies and of course premium tubes. A modified Crack with premium tubes can easily end up costing over $600 at which point going back to listening to a stock Crack again could be considered to be pretty tough as you would be very aware of what you were missing out on.
  
 But here’s the thing even with a insanely enjoyable highly modified Crack the HD800 are capable of giving more if you have the inclination to try some of higher end amp offerings.


----------



## Astral Abyss

No point in getting caught up on what others think of a piece of gear, or system.


----------



## mysticstryk

akg fanboy said:


> A lot of audiophiles say they cannot "properly evaluate" the performance of an amp at a meeting due to the noise which may or may not be true. I advise you read a couple articles nwavguy wrote and kindly left up for years even as he retired from the community.
> $300 is still an insane amount of money to put on an amp that literally just drives headphones with so little upgrades to the sound. Every review was praising the mstage for amazing warm sound and lifting the soundstage etc, yet I don't hear it. What will be your excuse? Mstage is a bad amp or the amp is not expensive enough?




Have you ever been to a meet? Yes, the noise definitely and obviously impacts a proper evaluation. 

You won't even bother readying Tylls article will you? Of course you think you know best when your only consuming information that plays to your own bias.

I'd take anything nwavguy says with a grain of salt. His ODAC dac is pretty nice at its price, but his O2 amp is outclassed by even cheaper amps.


----------



## akg fanboy

bigfatpaulie said:


> I just want to be clear what I am reading...  You are saying that the M-Stage is very, very highly regarded by both the community and professional reviews but you didn't see value in it, correct?



What? I said the performance didn't live up to my expectations from all the big improvements people tend to say in an amp review. They compared them to more expensive amps saying how great of a value the mstage is, I ended up grabbing the more expensive updated one because of the design


----------



## akg fanboy

jamiemcc said:


> Its always good to keep an open mind with tubes amps for the most part I think it’s probably safe to say the majority of tube amp users would have plenty of experience with solid state gear prior to moving to tubes. You always get phrases like warm, lush sounding, rolled off etc bandied around by those who are unfamiliar or perhaps have only experienced low budget poorly designed ones. But the ones designed by those who know what they are doing are certainly anything but.
> It can be important to have a benchmark for reference You mention the Crack as a good match for the HD800,  well The stock Crack has a very engaging sound and its circuit responds well to upgrades so well that you will find many builders go further  fitting things like stepped attenuators, boutique output capacitors and upgraded power supplies and of course premium tubes. A modified Crack with premium tubes can easily end up costing over $600 at which point going back to listening to a stock Crack again could be considered to be pretty tough as you would be very aware of what you were missing out on.
> 
> But here’s the thing even with a insanely enjoyable highly modified Crack the HD800 are capable of giving more if you have the inclination to try some of higher end amp offerings.




I will agree with tube amps because they have an objectively measurable difference in sound quality. However I prioritize my money elsewhere


----------



## akg fanboy

mysticstryk said:


> Have you ever been to a meet? Yes, the noise definitely and obviously impacts a proper evaluation.
> 
> You won't even bother readying Tylls article will you? Of course you think you know best when your only consuming information that plays to your own bias.
> 
> I'd take anything nwavguy says with a grain of salt. His ODAC dac is pretty nice at its price, but his O2 amp is outclassed by even cheaper amps.




Who is to say I wouldn't? I enjoy inner fidelity and his blind test writings too. I will check it out later but not right now. 
Oh great, you take everything objective nwavguy says even completely unrelated to his own product with a grain of salt because you do not like his amp. Sure shows your thinking


----------



## mysticstryk

akg fanboy said:


> Who is to say I wouldn't? I enjoy inner fidelity and his blind test writings too. I will check it out later but not right now.
> Oh great, you take everything objective nwavguy says even completely unrelated to his own product because you do not like his amp. Sure shows your thinking




Sorry, I don't fall in line with Reddit group think.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

How long do most people go between ordering replacement pads?


----------



## DavidA

bosiemoncrieff said:


> How long do most people go between ordering replacement pads?


 
 It would also depend on how much they get used, for me my pads still look brand new since my 2.5 year old HD-800 only gets​ a few hours use each month


----------



## Kasp3r

I'm having issues with the stock cable going out on my headphones. Sometimes it will play fine, but if I move my head the sound cuts out? What are my options or any recommendations ?
  
 Thank you!


----------



## DavidA

kasp3r said:


> I'm having issues with the stock cable going out on my headphones. Sometimes it will play fine, but if I move my head the sound cuts out? What are my options or any recommendations ?
> 
> Thank you!


 
 Is it isolated to only one side? or both?


----------



## Kasp3r

edit- double post


----------



## Kasp3r

davida said:


> Is it isolated to only one side? or both?


 
 Can hear on the left side fine but its out on the right side.


----------



## DavidA

kasp3r said:


> Can hear on the left side fine but its out on the right side.


 
 if you switch the connectors around does it stay on the right or does it move to the left?  trying to do a process of elimination here between cable, connector or jack on ear cup


----------



## Kasp3r

davida said:


> if you switch the connectors around does it stay on the right or does it move to the left?  trying to do a process of elimination here between cable, connector or jack on ear cup


 
 Aye, if I switch the headphone jacks the right side works now. So I'm guessing the right cable housing joint is bad or something. Well At least the headphone drivers are still good!


----------



## DavidA

kasp3r said:


> Aye, if I switch the headphone jacks the right side works now. So I'm guessing the right cable housing joint is bad or something. Well At least the headphone drivers are still good!


 
 is the connection loose?  a few have had an issue with loose connectors, you can try some Teflon tape to make the connection tighter as a temp solution until you can get a new cable


----------



## Kasp3r

davida said:


> is the connection loose?  a few have had an issue with loose connectors, you can try some Teflon tape to make the connection tighter as a temp solution until you can get a new cable


 
 What does a replacement cable run these days? I could look in the for used section for a new cable ? These headphones are 2 years old but have less than 20 hours on them. I can only hear out of my right ear anyways so this will work temp for now ! I'll just have to get used to the cable saying L on the right channel haha! Thank you!


----------



## DavidA

kasp3r said:


> What does a replacement cable run these days? I could look in the for used section for a new cable ? These headphones are 2 years old but have less than 20 hours on them. I can only hear out of my right ear anyways so this will work temp for now ! I'll just have to get used to the cable saying L on the right channel haha! Thank you!


 
 sorry to hear that you can only hear out of your right ear.  take a look on ebay or amazon, $50-70 would be a reasonable price IMO


----------



## Kasp3r

davida said:


> sorry to hear that you can only hear out of your right ear.  take a look on ebay or amazon, $50-70 would be a reasonable price IMO


 
 Its okay, was born with just my right ear working %100. I don't know any better  Ignorance is bliss hehe.
  
 Am I jealous of yalls Bi-nature hearing tho? hell yes haha! In a way im spending %50 more than I need to haha!
  
 Ruse an recycle those bad left channel headphones to me!!!


----------



## Sorrodje

bosiemoncrieff said:


> How long do most people go between ordering replacement pads?


 
  
 I'd say Three years of daily use ( 2 or 3 hours a day) . My first pair of pads was changed after three years. I'm using the current one since January 2014 and the pads are still fine.


----------



## fjrabon

akg fanboy said:


> Who is to say I wouldn't? I enjoy inner fidelity and his blind test writings too. I will check it out later but not right now.
> Oh great, you take everything objective nwavguy says even completely unrelated to his own product with a grain of salt because you do not like his amp. Sure shows your thinking


 

 one fundamental flaw in just about everything NWAVGuy did was that he treated all distortion the same, high order, low order, even order, odd order, all the same in his analysis.  This has been known to be a flawed approach by speaker engineers for literally decades.  We've long known that how the harmonic distortion profiles is as important, if not more so, than than total distortion.  High order and odd order harmonics sound much harsher to the human ear than lower and even order harmonics.  In fact, this actually provides a fundamental basis for how chords and harmony work in music composition itself.  Yet in his "objective" measurements, he repeatedly just lumped it all together as a raw THD number and kept saying "see, no difference.".  His designs reflect this flawed philosophy.  They, while having good THD measurements, have a lot of harmonic distortion in higher odd order harmonics, and thus sound much harsher than amps with higher "objective" THD measurements.  
  
 It's hard to say if he designed his amps this way because of this flawed philosophy, or if he used this flawed philosophy to justify his claims about his amps.  The first view would put him as having a fundamental misunderstanding about something he claimed to be an expert about, the second makes him a snake oil salesman.
  
 Now, I do enjoy a lot of his other writing.  His treatise on power and gain, how much is needed, and how they work are fantastic and required reading for the "you need a 4 watt amp for your HD650 to get proper bass control" crowd.  

 And yes, trying to properly evaluate headphones or amps at a meet is silly.  You can get the basic signature of the headphone, but they're simply too loud to hear differences in dynamics, micro detail, etc.


----------



## akg fanboy

fjrabon said:


> one fundamental flaw in just about everything NWAVGuy did was that he treated all distortion the same, high order, low order, even order, odd order, all the same in his analysis.  This has been known to be a flawed approach by speaker engineers for literally decades.  We've long known that how the harmonic distortion profiles is as important, if not more so, than than total distortion.  High order and odd order harmonics sound much harsher to the human ear than lower and even order harmonics.  In fact, this actually provides a fundamental basis for how chords and harmony work in music composition itself.  Yet in his "objective" measurements, he repeatedly just lumped it all together as a raw THD number and kept saying "see, no difference.".  His designs reflect this flawed philosophy.  They, while having good THD measurements, have a lot of harmonic distortion in higher odd order harmonics, and thus sound much harsher than amps with higher "objective" THD measurements.
> 
> It's hard to say if he designed his amps this way because of this flawed philosophy, or if he used this flawed philosophy to justify his claims about his amps.  The first view would put him as having a fundamental misunderstanding about something he claimed to be an expert about, the second makes him a snake oil salesman.
> 
> ...



I have not read all of nwavguys writings actually unlike what some people would assume, in fact I have probably read more articles from inner fidelity. It's interesting to see someone who actually came up with reasons apart from subjectivity against nwavguy and I will be sure to check up on it. I don't really know about high order/low order harmonic distortion so I will have to research that later as well. I like how even though you found a flaw in his philosophy you still regard his other writings unrelated to that subject as valid, that just isn't very common at all. Whether or not his flaws make a huge difference or not, I wouldn't know, but you seem to know what you're talking about


----------



## twiceboss

Hi guys, Im a new HD800 user


----------



## shultzee

twiceboss said:


> Hi guys, Im a new HD800 user


 
  


twiceboss said:


> Hi guys, Im a new HD800 user


 

 Congrats.  It plays well with the mojo.


----------



## twiceboss

Mojo+Desktop<<<<Mojo+iPad.
  
 What?
  
 HD800 is sooooooooo source dependent! which i like cuz i can play with the signature


----------



## thefitz

twiceboss said:


> Mojo+Desktop<<<
> What?
> 
> HD800 is sooooooooo source dependent! which i like cuz i can play with the signature


How is this possible? Isn't the Mojo converting to analog in either case?


----------



## twiceboss

thefitz said:


> How is this possible? Isn't the Mojo converting to analog in either case?


 
 Different DAP always deliver different thing. Idk how it works, logically everything dac and amp is the same and the digital should be the same. However, the difference is obvious, im not saying the placebo thing. This is real... not only me saying that. Different DAP produce different signature even with same dac/amp. 
  
 Interesting.


----------



## XVampireX

twiceboss said:


> Different DAP always deliver different thing. Idk how it works, logically everything dac and amp is the same and the digital should be the same. However, the difference is obvious, im not saying the placebo thing. This is real... not only me saying that. Different DAP produce different signature even with same dac/amp.
> 
> Interesting.


 
  
 1. Because sound quality is not measured, only a subjective listening can measure sound quality.
 2. Electronics work that way, just like food, one item mixed with different other items doesn't end up with the same result.


----------



## twiceboss

xvampirex said:


> 1. Because sound quality is not measured, only a subjective listening can measure sound quality.
> 2. Electronics work that way, just like food, one item mixed with different other items doesn't end up with the same result.


 
 Yes, it's hard to talk about this when people just keep saying all digital is the same and Dac/Amp is the only change the sound. Yes it's true, but the digital that process the signal plays rule. Do you any DAP which is affordable like below $400 that is really complement the Mojo signature? if u have one. We can talk haha


----------



## MickeyVee

Mine are 3 1/2 years old.  Use them daily for a couple of hours. Also had them on a Sieveking Sound's Omega Headphone Stand which probably squashed the pads.  They are now on a Woo stand free floating.   I didn't even realize that my pads needed to be replaced until this week when I borrowed a friends new pair of HD800S to audition.  My pads felt like a flat tire compared to the new ones.  Ordered new pads the same day.  
 Quote:


bosiemoncrieff said:


> How long do most people go between ordering replacement pads?


----------



## akg fanboy

Hey all HD800 owners, just wanted to show my EQ for the hd800 to fix some of the thinness in the mids many have complain about. I advise people in this thread to give this a shot if they feel the same way, I think the hd800 with EQ is definitely the best sounding headphone from everything I own.
 I didn't EQ for the bass at 100hz and below because the music I listen to just doesn't really benefit from it.


----------



## MikePio

Recently I have been playing around with EQ including SonarWorks which is very regarded around here. Since I am not experienced in this EQ stuff, I just wanted to mitigate the 6KHZ peak and see what difference that would make to the final sound. I basically wanted to EQ as little as possible to see the result. What do you guys think of this? I am really happy with the sound, it is barely noticeable just a little glare that is removed. Any suggestions for correction would be greatly appreciated! Cheers


----------



## twiceboss

Listening acoustic with this is really unbelievable. And yes, did mojo works best on apple product? It's night and day difference when I connect it with my pc and ipad.


----------



## ubs28

thefitz said:


> How is this possible? Isn't the Mojo converting to analog in either case?


 

 Depending on the quality of the computer, the signal of a computer is more noisy than that of an iPad. This can lead to lower sound quality. 
  
 This is why the Chord Hugo TT and Chord Dave have galvanic isolation to deal with this issue.


----------



## ubs28

twiceboss said:


> Different DAP always deliver different thing. Idk how it works, logically everything dac and amp is the same and the digital should be the same. However, the difference is obvious, im not saying the placebo thing. This is real... not only me saying that. Different DAP produce different signature even with same dac/amp.
> 
> Interesting.


 

 Try it with optical out. Then both the desktop and iPad will sound the same most likely.


----------



## thefitz

ubs28 said:


> Depending on the quality of the computer, the signal of a computer is more noisy than that of an iPad. This can lead to lower sound quality.
> 
> This is why the Chord Hugo TT and Chord Dave have galvanic isolation to deal with this issue.


Half the internet facepalmed at this comment, and the other half nodded in agreement.


----------



## akg fanboy

ubs28 said:


> Depending on the quality of the computer, the signal of a computer is more noisy than that of an iPad. This can lead to lower sound quality.
> 
> This is why the Chord Hugo TT and Chord Dave have galvanic isolation to deal with this issue.




Quality of the computer? What is that even supposed to mean.
The only thing that matters is the onboard soundcard. Or properly isolated USB ports if you use a dedicated USB DAC


----------



## ubs28

akg fanboy said:


> Quality of the computer? What is that even supposed to mean.
> The only thing that matters is the onboard soundcard. Or properly isolated USB ports if you use a dedicated USB DAC


 
  
 If you think the electric circuitry of a $3000 Retina Macbook Pro is the same as a $400 Wall mart PC, then you can think that.
  
 The point is that mobile devices can sound better using USB connection than PC's because of the lack of galvanic isolation on the Chord Mojo.


----------



## akg fanboy

ubs28 said:


> If you think the electric circuitry of a $3000 Retina Macbook Pro is the same as a $400 Wall mart PC, then you can think that.
> 
> The point is that mobile devices can sound better using USB connection than PC's because of the lack of galvanic isolation on the Chord Mojo.




Does retina make any real difference compared to a $1000 non retina Mac? Lol. The isolation is all that matters if the amp/DAC is the same

The only thing that matters is the motherboard, I can easily build a $400 PC that has a great motherboard. Processor/GPU/ram/storage/casing/monitor don't affect sound quality...


----------



## ubs28

akg fanboy said:


> Does retina make any real difference compared to a $1000 non retina Mac? Lol. The isolation is all that matters if the amp/DAC is the same
> 
> The only thing that matters is the motherboard, I can easily build a $400 PC that has a great motherboard. Processor/GPU/ram/storage/casing/monitor don't affect sound quality...


 

 What is the point of your posts by the way? The guy was wondering why his iPad sounds better than his computer on the Chord Mojo which I answered due to lack of Galvanic Isolation.


----------



## MWSVette

akg fanboy said:


> Does retina make any real difference compared to a $1000 non retina Mac? Lol. The isolation is all that matters if the amp/DAC is the same
> 
> The only thing that matters is the motherboard, I can easily build a $400 PC that has a great motherboard. Processor/GPU/ram/storage/casing/monitor don't affect sound quality...


 
  
 Its the computer power supply that makes the difference.  Some cheap PC power supplies are very noisy.  That noise will follow the power to the USB and on to the rest of the sound chain.


----------



## akg fanboy

mwsvette said:


> Its the computer power supply that makes the difference.  Some cheap PC power supplies are very noisy.  That noise will follow the power to the USB and on to the rest of the sound chain.




Yes I forgot to mention that as sometimes it can affect the sound significantly if your USB amp/DAC is not already powered by its own power supply or battery. But it leads back to USB isolation. But of course if the power is noisy, it won't sound different between the two different computers if the same dedicated amp/DAC using the same dedicated power supply is there


----------



## akg fanboy

ubs28 said:


> What is the point of your posts by the way? The guy was wondering why his iPad sounds better than his computer on the Chord Mojo which I answered due to lack of Galvanic Isolation.


 
 I was mostly replying to your first sentences, it would make sense if you think it that way.
 My quick replies weren't paying much attention to the galvanic isolation which probably can make a difference. Do you have evidence that mobile devices use this? I am just curious


----------



## ubs28

akg fanboy said:


> I was mostly replying to your first sentences, it would make sense if you think it that way.
> My quick replies weren't paying much attention to the galvanic isolation which probably can make a difference. Do you have evidence that mobile devices use this? I am just curious


 
  
 It's the DAC/AMP that either have or don't have galvanic isolation to stop noise from the computer getting to your DAC. But this a thread about the HD 800 and it's getting way off topic.


----------



## MWSVette

akg fanboy said:


> Yes I forgot to mention that as sometimes it can affect the sound if your USB amp/DAC is not already powered by its own power supply or battery. But it leads back to USB isolation. But of course if the power is noisy, it won't sound different between the two different computers if the same dedicated amp/DAC using the same dedicated power supply is there


 
 I use a Schiit Wyrd to separate PC power from the rest of my sound chain.
  
 Works well...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I keep meaning to get a Wyrd but I figure I might as well put the money in the Yggdrasil piggy bank


----------



## MWSVette

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I keep meaning to get a Wyrd but I figure I might as well put the money in the Yggdrasil piggy bank


 
 23 Wyrd's = 1 Yggy...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

HD800 came up in my new review of neutrality king of IEMs.


----------



## Zoom25

Transports definitely matter. My Bryston BDP-1 sounds better than my MacBook Pros, iPhone, IMac, iPod touch, and an old HP Windows laptop. Power supply and all that other stuff starts to add up and does make a difference...IMO/YMMV.


----------



## twiceboss

ubs28 said:


> If you think the electric circuitry of a $3000 Retina Macbook Pro is the same as a $400 Wall mart PC, then you can think that.
> 
> The point is that mobile devices can sound better using USB connection than PC's because of the lack of galvanic isolation on the Chord Mojo.




My desktop worth more than $3k usd. It's a gaming desktop. I doubt my motherboard limits my usb connection quality.


----------



## twiceboss

ubs28 said:


> Try it with optical out. Then both the desktop and iPad will sound the same most likely.




So optical out will help solve this issue? I'll give a try soon!


----------



## DavidA

twiceboss said:


> My desktop worth more than $3k usd. It's a gaming desktop. I doubt my motherboard limits my usb connection quality.


 
 High end gaming rigs are not the quietest systems for audio from what I've found when building custom gaming systems using Asus ROG, MSI G series, and Gigabyte gaming series motherboards.  I don't know if tube amps are more prone to picking up electronic noise but there use to be a very faint buzz when I used my BH Crack and HD-800 with my gaming system.
  
 For a system that is primarily for audio I've had much better results with workstation class motherboards using Xeon processors and ECC RAM, more stable and less electronic noise, one reason my gaming system is out on my lanai by its self.  The 2 systems I use for audio are very simple Xeon based, ECC RAM, low power graphics, only USB devices connected are mouse and KB, gold or platinum rated PSU and SSD drives only.  For USB cables I've found that those that have ferrite beads usually have not given me problems/issues but I try to limit using USB as much as possible.


----------



## fjrabon

twiceboss said:


> My desktop worth more than $3k usd. It's a gaming desktop. I doubt my motherboard limits my usb connection quality.


 

 it's typically not the amount of money, but rather simply how many other devices share the same USB controller.  Gaming desktops tend to be bad about this, because they pack a lot of powerful peripherals nearby that generate a lot of electronic noise.


----------



## twiceboss

So yeah, i bought toslink. Will arrive ths tuesday. Will give my reviewnsoon!


----------



## thefitz

Yet sub-$100 (sub-$50?) items completely solve this USB issue? That, put in context of $1000 cables? God, I can't follow this hobby sometimes.


----------



## thefitz

I'd also ask how to quantify "USB connection quality" but I don't want to get screamed at. Especially when USB issues manifest themselves in stuttering and connectivity issues, and not the "really opens up the mids" stuff. 

This reminds me of an argument I got in over "magic paper" treatment for a DAC. Apparently this "magic paper" blocks interference... yet the solution involved randomly placing specks of paper until you got results you liked, instead of lining the whole box with this paper to completely isolate it. 

If "I trust my ears" is all that matters, if I insist that a voodoo dance makes my rig sound better, would you all believe me?


----------



## twiceboss

thefitz said:


> I'd also ask how to quantify "USB connection quality" but I don't want to get screamed at. Especially when USB issues manifest themselves in stuttering and connectivity issues, and not the "really opens up the mids" stuff.
> 
> This reminds me of an argument I got in over "magic paper" treatment for a DAC. Apparently this "magic paper" blocks interference... yet the solution involved randomly placing specks of paper until you got results you liked, instead of lining the whole box with this paper to completely isolate it.
> 
> If "I trust my ears" is all that matters, if I insist that a voodoo dance makes my rig sound better, would you all believe me?




Yes, the obvious difference between my iPad and Desktop connection is the mids. The clarity of my hd800 becomes really damn good when connected to ipad. Desktop makes my hd800 less mids and kinda treble spike.

Even i use virtual ASIO to bypass onboard audiocard which makes it straight to my mojo.

What is this... i think this is because different DAP. DIFFERENT DAP GIVES DIFFERENT SIGNATURE. That's what i believe.


----------



## LinkPro

Hi guys, so there is a deal going on my local Senn distributor, free IE800 with HD800 purchase at ~$1300. Worth it?
  
 My LCD-2 recently had its left driver commit sudoku and it may take a while for me to get it serviced.


----------



## akg fanboy

twiceboss said:


> Yes, the obvious difference between my iPad and Desktop connection is the mids. The clarity of my hd800 becomes really damn good when connected to ipad. Desktop makes my hd800 less mids and kinda treble spike.
> 
> Even i use virtual ASIO to bypass onboard audiocard which makes it straight to my mojo.
> 
> What is this... i think this is because different DAP. DIFFERENT DAP GIVES DIFFERENT SIGNATURE. That's what i believe.




If the amp and the DAC is the same, there should be absolutely no difference in "sound signature." Maybe some very minor and insignificant differences due to isolation and power but no evidence for sound signature changes. Unless you have some sort of software that is doing audio processing on either end


----------



## akg fanboy

linkpro said:


> Hi guys, so there is a deal going on my local Senn distributor, free IE800 with HD800 purchase at ~$1300. Worth it?
> 
> My LCD-2 recently had its left driver commit sudoku and it may take a while for me to get it serviced.




Sudoku, hahaha. Sorry for your loss with the LCDs.
I would like to ask if you really enjoy the sound of both? Otherwise I would not recommend spending $1300 which is rather risky if you haven't heard nor have strong interest in both. A new hd800 is going for slightly less than $1000 so you're just essentially paying $300 for the ie800 since you already spent $1000 if you do buy it from your local distributor


----------



## Andreeas1978

I own both and would never separate myself of either of them, I wish I had such a good offer as you, but I wasn't that lucky!! I really cannot choose only one of them and I would buy them both again if I would have to! Offer or no offer! But first be sure you like the sound signature. 
300$ for ie800!! That's 50% off!!


----------



## thefitz

linkpro said:


> Hi guys, so there is a deal going on my local Senn distributor, free IE800 with HD800 purchase at ~$1300. Worth it?
> 
> My LCD-2 recently had its left driver commit sudoku and it may take a while for me to get it serviced.


Fantastic, the IE800 is a remarkable IEM.


----------



## thefitz

akg fanboy said:


> If the amp and the DAC is the same, there should be absolutely no difference in "sound signature." Maybe some very minor and insignificant differences due to isolation and power but no evidence for sound signature changes. Unless you have some sort of software that is doing audio processing on either end


I dunno - people are saying the same software, songs, DAC, and amp will sound different depending on when the files are located due to - wait for it - noisy USB.


----------



## 13713

linkpro said:


> Hi guys, so there is a deal going on my local Senn distributor, free IE800 with HD800 purchase at ~$1300. Worth it?
> 
> My LCD-2 recently had its left driver commit sudoku and it may take a while for me to get it serviced.




ie800 is amazing. That is a pretty good deal if you want both.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I prefer K3003.


----------



## cuiter23

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I prefer K3003.


 
  
 uhhhh.... ok?


----------



## Nikorasu

Hello everybody. I rented the HD 800 from Lumoid and I can't find the 6Khz treble spike people keep talking about. I had yet to hear a high treble pitch that really hurted my ears. Why can't I hear it? My hearing is fine lol, i'm 21 so I'm still young. My ears also isn't damaged from loud listening.


----------



## ezekiel77

nikorasu said:


> Hello everybody. I rented the HD 800 from Lumoid and I can't find the 6Khz treble spike people keep talking about. I had yet to ear a high treble pitch that really hurted my ears. Why can't I hear it? My hearing is fine lol, i'm 21 so I'm still young. My ears also isn't damaged from loud listening.


 
  
 What music do you listen to? Probably your ears aren't as sensitive to the spike as others. For me the HD800 is fine until I listen to modern pop/rock songs that are poorly-mastered. Then it sounds like nails to a board.


----------



## DavidA

nikorasu said:


> Hello everybody. I rented the HD 800 from Lumoid and I can't find the 6Khz treble spike people keep talking about. I had yet to ear a high treble pitch that really hurted my ears. Why can't I hear it? My hearing is fine lol, i'm 21 so I'm still young. My ears also isn't damaged from loud listening.


 
 The 6khz spike of the HD-800 doesn't bother me but the 4-5khz spike of the HD-600 does.  Everyone is different so it might just be that the 6khz spike does not bother you.  Also, as @ezekiel77 noted it could also be the genre of music that you listen to.


----------



## shultzee

nikorasu said:


> Hello everybody. I rented the HD 800 from Lumoid and I can't find the 6Khz treble spike people keep talking about. I had yet to hear a high treble pitch that really hurted my ears. Why can't I hear it? My hearing is fine lol, i'm 21 so I'm still young. My ears also isn't damaged from loud listening.


 

 The so called spike doesn't effect me either so your not alone.


----------



## mcteague

shultzee said:


> The so called spike doesn't effect me either so your not alone.


 

 I have never understood all the fuss either. Before I got the HD800s I was nervous about the possible brightness as I have always hated speakers with an edge but, at the same time, like the clarity. However, my music collection is all CDs and primarily Classical. I would have to listen to early 60s rock/pop to hear something that I felt was harsh. My old Thiel speakers were wonderful except for a tendency to make some treble sound too harsh. When I moved to Linkwitz Orions, all that went away. I am surprised at how close the sound signature is between the Orions and HD800s.
  
 Tim


----------



## FLTWS

mcteague said:


> I have never understood all the fuss either. Before I got the HD800s I was nervous about the possible brightness as I have always hated speakers with an edge but, at the same time, like the clarity. However, my music collection is all CDs and primarily Classical. I would have to listen to early 60s rock/pop to hear something that I felt was harsh. ...
> 
> Tim


 
  
 Same here. I guess it's a matter of degree and it's all recording quality dependent. I've got plenty of classical recordings with hyped highs. Back in the day the monitors used to master and mix didn't have the smooth high frequency or detailed deep bass capabilities of today's monitors, so I believe they compensated as best they could to provide a satisfying end result.
  
 As for bass, I listened to Mahler 1 yesterday, Zinman/Tonhalle/RCA Red Seal (2006), on the 800. The opening of the 4th movement has so many bass drum thwacks it will put a crease in your skull even at a 70-75DB listening level peaks as measured on my sound level meter. Given that the lowest frequency of the Harp is almost 30Hz, the Tympani around 90Hz, Double Bass around 40Hz, Contrabassoon around 30Hz, I'm not sure what the bass-lite is all about when referring to HD800. I think it depends on the recording and how much limiting of dynamic range is applied in the process.
  
 I've never heard any headphone can do no more than give a sense of the air pressure behind the deepest notes as only the eardrum gets vibrated and not the whole body. A lot of the headphones I've auditioned sound as if they beefed up the low frequency impression somehow in an attempt to compensate and losing the detail or getting muddy sounding in the process. Comparing the FR plots I see in reviews to comparing the actually headphones I hear large differences I wouldn't expect to hear below a 100Hz to 300Hz based on what I see in those plots.
  
 But, everyone's ears hear differently.


----------



## Nikorasu

I listen to all sorts of genres such as classical, pop, rock, metal, country, gospel, and video game soundtracks.


----------



## Nikorasu

ezekiel77 said:


> What music do you listen to? Probably your ears aren't as sensitive to the spike as others. For me the HD800 is fine until I listen to modern pop/rock songs that are poorly-mastered. Then it sounds like nails to a board.


 
  I listen to all sorts of genres such as classical, pop, rock, metal, country, gospel, and video game soundtracks.


----------



## Nikorasu

Sorry for the double post. There's no way for me to delete them.


----------



## ezekiel77

nikorasu said:


> I listen to all sorts of genres such as classical, pop, rock, metal, country, gospel, and video game soundtracks.


 
  
 I wouldn't call HD800 an all-rounder, but if you're enjoying them, then there's no issue, and I'm glad.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

ezekiel77 said:


> I wouldn't call HD800 an all-rounder, but if you're enjoying them, then there's no issue, and I'm glad.


 

 yeah HE-6 is much more of an all-rounder, ditto TH900, maybe LCD-X


----------



## fjrabon

bosiemoncrieff said:


> yeah HE-6 is much more of an all-rounder, ditto TH900, maybe LCD-X


 

 I wouldn't call the TH900 an all arounder.  Its treble is probably worse than the HD800's, which is why most people don't consider the HD800 an all arounder.


----------



## Nikorasu

Guys, it has been my third day with the HD 800 from Lumoid. I have to send the package back 29th. My previous pair of headphones is the HD 598. I've been listening to many tracks lossless and mp3 comparing and contrasting between the pairs. I notice that I can raise the volume on the 800 much higher than the 598 without them getting distorted or fatiguing compared to the 598. I also noticed the soundstage is bigger on the HD 800 and the audio is much clearer. I've also been playing games and the HD 800 sounds better because of the sound stage. The treble, midrange, and bass are a tiny bit better on the HD 800. The bass on the HD 598 sounds like its distorted at higher volume vs HD 800. The timbre of instruments sounds more realistic and clearer on the HD 800 vs 598. However, I'm sad that I have yet to find any new hidden details in my music with the HD 800. I'm trying really hard to find new things yet to be heard in my music over the HD 598. All though the HD 800 does produce better treble, midrange, and bass I can't seem to find anything new in my music and I have over 1000 songs on my external hard drive. I don't know why. I'm just wondering is it even worth spending $983.76 on the HD 800 on Amazon. I thought I would have an eargasm from listening to the HD 800. My whole plan all along was to buy the new HD 800 S when I get my financial aid check, but seeing how the HD 800 is only 5 % better then my HD 598 I'm wondering if it even worth it. The HD 800 S is suppose to be more detailed according to Sennheiser. It is suppose to have bass that goes deeper. All though the HD 800 bass was more clearer than the HD 598 it didn't go as deep. I felt that it was lacking. I believe the reason I can't hear any new nuances and details in my music is because the HD 800 lacks the change that's in the HD 800 S. According to Sennheiser _* "*__*The enhanced sound reproduction of the HD 800 S is achieved through the addition of the innovative absorber technology that was pioneered in the Sennheiser IE 800 – a breakthrough that preserved the audibility of very high frequency sounds by eliminating a phenomenon known as the “masking effect”, where the human *__*hear*__* struggles to hear frequencies of sound when lower frequencies of a higher volume occur at the same time. By absorbing the energy of the resonance, Sennheiser’s patented absorber technology prevents any unwanted peaks and allows all frequency components – even the finest nuances – in the music material to become audible. This innovation was a key element in making the IE 800 the world’s best sounding *__*in ear*__* headphone, and in the HD 800 *_*S it helps to bring even greater purity and precision"*

 Notice how they said _*"*__*preserved the audibility of very *__*high frequency*__* sounds by eliminating a phenomenon known as the “masking effect”, where the human *__*hear*_ _*struggles to hear frequencies of sound when lower frequencies of a higher volume occur at the same time. By absorbing the energy of the resonance, Sennheiser’s patented absorber technology prevents any unwanted peaks and allows all frequency components – even the finest nuances – in the music material to become audible" *_

 I'm going to send the HD 800 back to Lumoid which is the 29th. I'm going to buy the HD 800 S on Amazon and test them out hoping and praying that when I test them and have them burn in that I will be able to hear *"*_*even the finest nuances", *_and that they become audible according to Sennheiser. The lower frequency was also extended in the HD 800 S so it should have better bass. I couldn't hear the 6khz treble spike on the HD 800 so the fact that its fixed according to Sennheiser won't be anything new to me. So overall, my plan is to buy the HD 800 S and send it back to Amazon if there's no big difference over the HD 800 I rented from Lumoid.


----------



## Rozenberg

@Nikorasu It's odd. I had prior experience with 598 before and from memory, the HD800 is a really big upgrade from the 598.
 I think you should've known already, but do you have the proper setup to drive the HD800? HD800 is harder to drive than 598 and totally benefits from good amping. Yes, this is normally the reason people throw to someone unimpressed by the HD800 at first. I thought it was bullschiit too, but in the end I experienced it myself.
  
 As for details in songs, that will depend on what your song is. I normally don't expect much details from pop, rock or something. Only time I'm immersing myself in the music is normally with classical or orchestra. Those kinds of music have really small details like the sound of instruments bumping on something or some ticking that could distract me.


----------



## DavidA

@Nikorasu, I have to agree with @Rozenberg, the HD-800 is a picky headphone when it comes to amps and DACs.  The genre of music will also make a difference, large orchestra classical, jazz and blues will take advantage of the HD-800 technical abilities while pop, classic rock, and rock will not usually take advantage of the HD-800's abilities.


----------



## Nikorasu

rozenberg said:


> @Nikorasu It's odd. I had prior experience with 598 before and from memory, the HD800 is a really big upgrade from the 598.
> I think you should've known already, but do you have the proper setup to drive the HD800? HD800 is harder to drive than 598 and totally benefits from good amping. Yes, this is normally the reason people throw to someone unimpressed by the HD800 at first. I thought it was bullschiit too, but in the end I experienced it myself.
> 
> As for details in songs, that will depend on what your song is. I normally don't expect much details from pop, rock or something. Only time I'm immersing myself in the music is normally with classical or orchestra. Those kinds of music have really small details like the sound of instruments bumping on something or some ticking that could distract me.


 


davida said:


> @Nikorasu, I have to agree with @Rozenberg, the HD-800 is a picky headphone when it comes to amps and DACs.  The genre of music will also make a difference, large orchestra classical, jazz and blues will take advantage of the HD-800 technical abilities while pop, classic rock, and rock will not usually take advantage of the HD-800's abilities.


 
 Yes, I do have an adequate amp. It's the Sound Blaster X7 and its rated to power even 600 Ohm headphones. The HD 800 gets really loud so much that it can be heard throughout the house, seriously. So please, don't say the problem is the amp. Also, I do listen to classical and orchestra music. Although the HD 800 is clearer and the soundstage is much better than the HD 598, I couldn't hear any newer nuances in that genre over HD 598. That's why I'm hoping if I get the HD 800 S there will be a big difference and I'd be able to hear even the smallest hidden details. And guys, It's really tiresome going back and forth with both the HD 800 and 598 trying to find the nuances I haven't discovered. I'm hoping with the HD 800 S i can swap back and forth with the HD 598 once on a song and immediately find the differences.


----------



## Nikorasu

rozenberg said:


> @Nikorasu It's odd. I had prior experience with 598 before and from memory, the HD800 is a really big upgrade from the 598.
> I think you should've known already, but do you have the proper setup to drive the HD800? HD800 is harder to drive than 598 and totally benefits from good amping. Yes, this is normally the reason people throw to someone unimpressed by the HD800 at first. I thought it was bullschiit too, but in the end I experienced it myself.
> 
> As for details in songs, that will depend on what your song is. I normally don't expect much details from pop, rock or something. Only time I'm immersing myself in the music is normally with classical or orchestra. Those kinds of music have really small details like the sound of instruments bumping on something or some ticking that could distract me.


 
 So your saying just from memory the HD 800 is immediately better?  How is that possible? My mom tried the HD 800 and she says the HD 598 sounded better. She hasn't even heard my 598 since a month ago. Did you at least compare the two?


----------



## Astral Abyss

nikorasu said:


> So your saying just from memory the HD 800 is immediately better?  How is that possible? My mom tried the HD 800 and she says the HD 598 sounded better. She hasn't even heard my 598 since a month ago. Did you at least compare the two?




If you don't hear a difference between the 598 and 800 and/or prefer the 598, stick with the 598, save money, and enjoy the music. It's about finding the sound you like and prefer, and it doesn't have to cost a fortune to do so.


----------



## Nikorasu

It's not that I prefer the HD 598. I really do want a headphone to replace the 598. That's why I chose to try the HD 800. I was super stoked when the HD 800 came in from Lumoid. I was so eager to listen to them, I couldn't wait. I'm not basis or anything. I love Sennheiser! I been through 3 different pairs of headphones. The first Sennheisers I had was the HD 201. Then I bought the 558 and holy **** it was amazing. It was like a %100 jump! Then I sold my HD 558 to my brother and bought the HD 598, but that was only like a %5 jump.  I just want a headphone to replace my 598. A headphone that gives hidden details to all my music that already sounds good on the 598. I need a headphone that's even better! That's why i'm hoping if I buy the HD 800 S from amazon I'll be able to hear new hidden details in my music that the HD 598 can't even do. I'm hoping that the *"enhanced sound reproduction of the HD 800 S" *will allow me to hear the nuances that I couldn't hear with the HD 800. 
  
 I just hope this quote from Sennheiser about the innovative absorber technology is true and that I can really tell the difference over the HD 800 and 598 and that I'll be able to hear nuances I haven't heard before. . _*"The enhanced sound reproduction of the HD 800 S is achieved through the addition of the innovative absorber technology that was pioneered in the Sennheiser IE 800 – a breakthrough that preserved the audibility of very high frequency sounds by eliminating a phenomenon known as the “masking effect”, where the human hear struggles to hear frequencies of sound when lower frequencies of a higher volume occur at the same time. By absorbing the energy of the resonance, Sennheiser’s patented absorber technology prevents any unwanted peaks and allows all frequency components – even the finest nuances – in the music material to become audible. This innovation was a key element in making the IE 800 the world’s best sounding *__*in ear*__* headphone, and in the HD 800 S it helps to bring even greater purity and precision."*_


----------



## Rozenberg

nikorasu said:


> Yes, I do have an adequate amp. It's the Sound Blaster X7 and its rated to power even 600 Ohm headphones. The HD 800 gets really loud so much that it can be heard throughout the house, seriously. So please, don't say the problem is the amp. Also, I do listen to classical and orchestra music. Although the HD 800 is clearer and the soundstage is much better than the HD 598, I couldn't hear any newer nuances in that genre over HD 598. That's why I'm hoping if I get the HD 800 S there will be a big difference and I'd be able to hear even the smallest hidden details. And guys, It's really tiresome going back and forth with both the HD 800 and 598 trying to find the nuances I haven't discovered. I'm hoping with the HD 800 S i can swap back and forth with the HD 598 once on a song and immediately find the differences.


 
 I once had an Aune T1 like 2 years ago. It drove the HD800 sufficiently, but still sounded thin. Recently I had a Liquid Carbon and still own a Crimson and I daresay these two are what finally hit the sweet spot for me. Of course this doesn't sound convincing to you, since both amps are more expensive, so normally it would look like "he paid more money so it must sound better to him." I usually first judge the improvement of an amp if it immediately brings a grin to my face. It happened with the Crimson thus why I'm loving it so much.
  
 But well, in your case you might better follow @Astral Abyss' advice and keep the 598 until you can find something that truly blows your mind. The 800S isn't that much different from the 800.
 It's hard to fall in love with the HD800 at first sight, so I understand your sentiment, but again the 800 is one annoying lady to please, to be honest. Sounds weird but pretty much true.
  


nikorasu said:


> So your saying just from memory the HD 800 is immediately better?  How is that possible? My mom tried the HD 800 and she says the HD 598 sounded better. She hasn't even heard my 598 since a month ago. Did you at least compare the two?


 
 My brother tried my HD800 and said it's no different sounding from his TFZ Series 5 IEM. Maybe we in this hobby are crazy.
  
 Can't compare directly, sorry. Gave the 598 to my friend long time ago.


----------



## fjrabon

nikorasu said:


> Yes, I do have an adequate amp. It's the Sound Blaster X7 and its rated to power even 600 Ohm headphones. The HD 800 gets really loud so much that it can be heard throughout the house, seriously. So please, don't say the problem is the amp. Also, I do listen to classical and orchestra music. Although the HD 800 is clearer and the soundstage is much better than the HD 598, I couldn't hear any newer nuances in that genre over HD 598. That's why I'm hoping if I get the HD 800 S there will be a big difference and I'd be able to hear even the smallest hidden details. And guys, It's really tiresome going back and forth with both the HD 800 and 598 trying to find the nuances I haven't discovered. I'm hoping with the HD 800 S i can swap back and forth with the HD 598 once on a song and immediately find the differences.




The HD800S is, if anything, less detailed than the HD800 by a tiny amount.


----------



## twiceboss

it's not how loud ur amp can do. It's how good the dac can do justice and how the amp complement the dac.
  
 I just use mojo and it's super good with HD800, beat the bifrost+valhalla2. I prefer HD800 with this little mojo. Tiny but superb.
  
 Since u have money for HD800, i do consider u can try to find mojo.
  
  
 Sibilant with HD800 is actually very little. I bet you never listen to TH900/600 yet. That highs are even unforgiving. I have th600 and my friend just bought TH900, both of them are more sibilant than my HD800.


----------



## Sorrodje

@Nikorasu : if you don't hear any difference between a HD800 and your HD598 , you won't hear more with the HD800S. Stick with you HD598. Seem you're a happy camper now


----------



## Me x3

Quote:


fjrabon said:


> The HD800S is, if anything, less detailed than the HD800 by a tiny amount.


 This.
  
 Quote:


nikorasu said:


> (...)


 
  

 I would say, get a better DAC/Amp if you want to improve HD800's performance. Sometimes it's not about power.
 HD800 needs little power, but it can reveal the small differences between different amplifiers.
  
 Anyway, HD800 might not be the right headphone for you.
 Most of the times I enjoy my T1.1 more than my HD800. The T1 is warmer and sounds more organic than the HD800.
  
 HD598 is a neutralish headphone so it won't hide things, higher quality headphones like K702, HE1000, T1, HD800 will show the same things but more focused, tighter, clearer. You should be able to hear more of the acoustics of the room where the recording took place, more of the evanescent sound of a guitar string after the main sound, and there should be more instrument and vocal separation in orchestras and chorus recordings. That's all you'll get, but you should be able to hear those differences.


----------



## DavidA

nikorasu said:


> Yes, I do have an adequate amp. It's the Sound Blaster X7 and its rated to power even 600 Ohm headphones. The HD 800 gets really loud so much that it can be heard throughout the house, seriously. So please, don't say the problem is the amp. Also, I do listen to classical and orchestra music. Although the HD 800 is clearer and the soundstage is much better than the HD 598, I couldn't hear any newer nuances in that genre over HD 598. That's why I'm hoping if I get the HD 800 S there will be a big difference and I'd be able to hear even the smallest hidden details. And guys, It's really tiresome going back and forth with both the HD 800 and 598 trying to find the nuances I haven't discovered. I'm hoping with the HD 800 S i can swap back and forth with the HD 598 once on a song and immediately find the differences.


 
 Its not just the power, its the synergy between the amp and headphone, I have 3 amps that will drive the HD-800 to ear bleeding levels, Lyr2 (660mW @ 300ohms, or 330mW @ 600ohms) , Ember (400, 600 or 700mW depending on the output impedance, or 240, 300 or 390mW @ 600ohms) and BH Crack, the only amp that does the HD-800 justice is the BH Crack for me.  I also found the Hugo a better DAC/amp combo than my Bimby/UD-301 and BH Crack and it has way less power output (• 600 ohms 35mW, • 300 ohms 70mW) than my other amps.  I couldn't find what is the out @600 ohms in any of the specs provided by Sound Blaster, they only say 600 ohms but that means nothing without actual mW, amps or voltage that the X7 delivers @ 600ohms.
  
 As for the HD-800S, I've heard it and I want one but its different enough from the HD-800 that I would keep both but its just as picky as the HD-800 when it comes to amps IMO and to me the HD-800 was a touch more detailed than the HD-800S but the S is better with more genres of music to me.


----------



## bearFNF

I agree that the hd800 is a touch more detailed than hd800s. I listened to them side-by-side and preferred HD 800 . I've also listened to the x7 with my HD800 and it doesn't drive them the way that they need to be. The liquid carbon or preferably the liquid gold drives the HD800 much better.YMMV IMO and all that.


----------



## Fegefeuer

X7's amp part is the weakest part of it. Not only does it have the dreaded "loudness effect" aka lack of dynamics and compressed in general, it also suffers from bloaty, uncontrolled bass. 
  
 Being deafening loud is the worst factor to measure an amp. Also the power overhead is rather mediocre. Remember that the kickbass of the HD800 reaches around 640 Ohms (@100Hz)
  
 SB X7 Standard Edition
 Measured Output Impedance: 2.11
 Normal Gain Maximum output voltage at 600 ohm load: 2.08 Vrms
 High Gain Maximum output voltage at 600 ohm load: 6.52 Vrms
 Maximum output current at 15 ohm load: 277 mA
 Calculated power rating:
 Max power output at 32 ohms: 1,328 mW
 Max power output at 50 ohms: 850 mW
 Max power output at 300 ohms: 142 mW
 Max power output at 600 ohms: 71 mW

 SB X7 Limited Edition
 Measured Output Impedance: 1.51 ohm
 Normal Gain Maximum output voltage at 600 ohm load: 1.94 Vrms
 High Gain Maximum output voltage at 600 ohm load: 6.36 Vrms
 Maximum output current at 15 ohm load: 271 mA
 Calculated power rating:
 Max power output at 32 ohms: 1,264 mW
 Max power output at 50 ohms: 809 mW
 Max power output at 300 ohms: 135 mW
 Max power output at 600 ohms: 67 mW


----------



## beowulf

bearfnf said:


> I agree that the hd800 is a touch more detailed than hd800s. I listened to them side-by-side and preferred HD 800 . I've also listened to the x7 with my HD800 and it doesn't drive them the way that they need to be. The liquid carbon or preferably the liquid gold drives the HD800 much better.YMMV IMO and all that.


 
  
 I'm not sure it is really more detail or resolution. To my ears, a brighter, more grainy sound usually gives me the impression of more detail, even if it isn't there. The 800S are a bit smoother and warmer, so perhaps that's why the HD800 can sound sharper.


----------



## bearFNF

beowulf said:


> I'm not sure it is really more detail or resolution. To my ears, a brighter, more grainy sound usually gives me the impression of more detail, even if it isn't there. The 800S are a bit smoother and warmer, so perhaps that's why the HD800 can sound sharper.


Well, what I heard was less detail. It was not just in the highs but in the mids and lows too. They were just off to me. Did not like them.


----------



## Nikorasu

Can someone suggest an amp like the Sound Blaster X7 in terms of features? Only reason I bought the X7 is because its an all-rounder I'm able to connect to my ps4 and ps3 using optical audio and get dolby digital 5.1 surround sound.The X7 also allows me to pair with my phone using bluetooh aptX. I just want a powerful amp that can do justice to the HD 800 or HD 800 S but can also decode 5.1 surround sound, and has a balanced connection.


----------



## Strife

nikorasu said:


> Can someone suggest an amp like the Sound Blaster X7 in terms of features? Only reason I bought the X7 is because its an all-rounder I'm able to connect to my ps4 and ps3 using optical audio and get dolby digital 5.1 surround sound.The X7 also allows me to pair with my phone using bluetooh aptX. I just want a powerful amp that can do justice to the HD 800 or HD 800 S but can also decode 5.1 surround sound, and has a balanced connection.


 
  
 You could keep using the X7 as a dedicated DAC and hook it up to a headphone amp (many suggestions here), that is, unless the aforementioned negatives qualities of the X7 carry over to the line out connections. The Cavalli Liquid Carbon is what I use right now and I'm happy with it, there are plenty of them for sale right now and cheaper than ever. Others might suggest the Schiit Jotunheim as well, but could be a little too bright for the 800.


----------



## Evshrug

nikorasu said:


> Can someone suggest an amp like the Sound Blaster X7 in terms of features? Only reason I bought the X7 is because its an all-rounder I'm able to connect to my ps4 and ps3 using optical audio and get dolby digital 5.1 surround sound.The X7 also allows me to pair with my phone using bluetooh aptX. I just want a powerful amp that can do justice to the HD 800 or HD 800 S but can also decode 5.1 surround sound, and has a balanced connection.



I have two suggestions:
1.) Upgrade the OpAmps.
New OpAmps don't change the frequency response (usually), but so far the Bursons I have been testing have made the audio more dynamic and revealing of the different layers in music (it's easier to hear quantities of background singers in Leonard Cohen's "You Want It Darker" track). The sound is more refined, and more "worthy" of the HD800, while being a pretty inexpensive upgrade which is especially nice if you're saving up for a dedicated amp.

2.) connect the X7's line-outs to a dedicated amp.
If amping is the problem but you want to keep the X7's features, this is an obvious solution. You can get a cheap "sweetening" amp like the Schiit Vali or Violectric or something, but those amps are more about coloring the sound Signature and the HD800's potential isn't unlocked. To get a significant upgrade over the X7, you'll be looking for amps around $1000 or stand-out values like the Liquid Carbon. There may be a few other hidden gems out there too, a friend of mine loved a few Corda amps he tested but he was testing for synergy on the HE1000 headphone before giving up and selling that headphone.


----------



## Nikorasu

I don't have the desk space for a extra amp. I just want a amp/dac to replace the X7.


----------



## DavidA

nikorasu said:


> Can someone suggest an amp like the Sound Blaster X7 in terms of features? Only reason I bought the X7 is because its an all-rounder I'm able to connect to my ps4 and ps3 using optical audio and get dolby digital 5.1 surround sound.The X7 also allows me to pair with my phone using bluetooh aptX. I just want a powerful amp that can do justice to the HD 800 or HD 800 S but can also decode 5.1 surround sound, and has a balanced connection.


 
 As the other 2 suggested keep the X7 and adding a amp would be the easiest way for you to keep all the features but you will not be getting the full potential of the HD-800/S IMO.
  
 When I used a friends Hugo it was a great pairing with the HD-800 for genres which were mostly instrumental but was a little off for genres which were mostly vocals due to the wide sound stage.  The HE-560 was a much better headphone for vocals IMO.  I don't know of any DAC that will give you 5.1 surround sound and be detailed/resolving enough to do justice to the HD-800/S, maybe someone else knows of such?


----------



## Nikorasu

evshrug said:


> I have two suggestions:
> 1.) Upgrade the OpAmps.
> New OpAmps don't change the frequency response (usually), but so far the Bursons I have been testing have made the audio more dynamic and revealing of the different layers in music (it's easier to hear quantities of background singers in Leonard Cohen's "You Want It Darker" track). The sound is more refined, and more "worthy" of the HD800, while being a pretty inexpensive upgrade which is especially nice if you're saving up for a dedicated amp.


 
  
 Which Burson opAmp model are you talking about?


----------



## Strife

nikorasu said:


> I don't have the desk space for a extra amp. I just want a amp/dac to replace the X7.


 
  
 The LC is a small footprint amp (5" x 7"), not sure about the X7 dimensions, but perhaps you could stack it over the LC, that way you wouldn't lose any desk space, except for adding 2 extra inches in height and you would also need an extra power socket of course.


----------



## fjrabon

bearfnf said:


> Well, what I heard was less detail. It was not just in the highs but in the mids and lows too. They were just off to me. Did not like them.




The primary measurable difference between the HD800 and HD800S is that the S has more 2nd harmonic distortion, especially in the bass. 2nd harmonic distortion is fairly euphonic and is experienced as "warmth and smoothness" but it does come at a cost of slightly less resolution. It's like a built in room effect.


----------



## mysticstryk

Hd800 with SDR mod. You get the best traits of the 800S without sacrificing resolution. 

(You also save up to several hundred dollars)


----------



## fjrabon

mysticstryk said:


> Hd800 with SDR mod. You get the best traits of the 800S without sacrificing resolution.
> 
> (You also save up to several hundred dollars)


 

 or sonarworks


----------



## mysticstryk

fjrabon said:


> or sonarworks




One of these days I'll try it. Don't use my PC for much listening in my current setup though, so no sonarworks for me.


----------



## Strife

mysticstryk said:


> Hd800 with SDR mod. You get the best traits of the 800S without sacrificing resolution.
> 
> (You also save up to several hundred dollars)


 
  
 Wouldn't that void the warranty, though?


----------



## mysticstryk

strife said:


> Wouldn't that void the warranty, though?




It's reversible if someone happens to still be in the 2 year warranty period.


----------



## Zoom25

HD 800 is the best example of garbage in = garbage out. No need to sugarcoat it. I find it sounds good on most devices. However, its a lot more fatiguing on the lower end devices. It doesn't need a lot of power, just high quality. There's more to amplification than just power, (although power supply matters). Someone give him the 101. Also, the DAC needs to be factored in here. I often see people say that get good amplification first over a good DAC. That still doesn't make sense to me as both a headphone and speaker guy. The amplifier can only amplify what is there or isn't there in the first place.
  
 Also, don't focus too much on the marketing info on products.


----------



## twiceboss

GUYS!
  
 What if I add SubPac M2 to increase the bass of HD800? even better for EDM!!!!
  
 Any recommendation? <3


----------



## Zoom25

twiceboss said:


> GUYS!
> 
> What if I add SubPac M2 to increase the bass of HD800? even better for EDM!!!!
> 
> Any recommendation? <3


 
 I can guarantee that something like that would get very irritating over a long time. The novelty and comfort would wear out over time.
  
 Look into a full range solution if your situation allows for it. There are some killer nearfield full range solutions out there, although pricey.


----------



## beowulf

twiceboss said:


> GUYS!
> 
> What if I add SubPac M2 to increase the bass of HD800? even better for EDM!!!!
> 
> Any recommendation? <3


 
  
 I don't want to sound like a wise-ass, although I am one, but the way I found to increase the bass of the HD800/800S for EDM was selling them after I got the Z1R. It's not that the selling did it, but the Z1R had this really awes...er, ahem, well, nevermind. Ok, ok... I'll show myself out...


----------



## Peti

zoom25 said:


> The amplifier can only amplify what is there or isn't there in the first place.


 
 So if my O2/ODAC reached more than sufficient listening levels with my HD800 I just have thrown my $ out the window by getting a much more expensive Liquid Carbon? What's more, the 4k Liquid Gold I'm saving for would be an outright waste of money?
  
 Just curious, what headphone amps have you been using/owning/extensively knowing to make such a statement?


----------



## twiceboss

beowulf said:


> I don't want to sound like a wise-ass, although I am one, but the way I found to increase the bass of the HD800/800S for EDM was selling them after I got the Z1R. It's not that the selling did it, but the Z1R had this really awes...er, ahem, well, nevermind. Ok, ok... I'll show myself out...


 
 pfttttt, you are not the only one suggesting that............
  
 everyone says mdr z1r has forgiving highs with damn good bass. What is this... the cost.... $2k...................


----------



## Zoom25

peti said:


> So if my O2/ODAC reached more than sufficient listening levels with my HD800 I *just have thrown my $ out the window by getting a much more expensive Liquid Carbon?* What's more, the 4k Liquid Gold I'm saving for would be an outright waste of money?
> 
> Just curious, what headphone amps have you been using/owning/extensively knowing to make such a statement?


 
  
 I'm not sure about the ODAC. Haven't tried it. The JDS Labs O2 I owned for around a year (+/-) that I used with D2000, HE-500, and LCD-2 at the time (2012 or 2013?). There are actually a lot of my comments on the Emotiva mini speaker thread comparing the O2 and the Emotiva speaker amp. For D2000, the O2 was fine, but for the two planars, the O2 was very underwhelming.
  
 (Wait hold up...I'm re-reading your comment and just bolded the part about loudness and wasting money. I think you are confusing my stance with someone else's. I care about quality and not the loudness thing. Not sure what your are trying to imply.)
  
 Anyways, I haven't tried many dedicated headphone amps...Bryston BHA-1, Naim DAC V1, Fiio E10, Fiio E11, Burson Soloist, O2. I'm forgetting a few here and there.
  
 On the other hand, I've driven the planars (mostly LCD-2 and LCD-3) out of some very nice speaker amplifier's output. Most of them exceeded by a very large margin the headphone amplifiers I tried. EAR, Accuphase, Naim, NAD, Luxman, Marantz. With these I can listen at low volume and hear everything with very little distortion, clean background, strong imaging, clean transients. Even if I increase the volume, the FR changes in a linear manner. The price on these ranged from $2k to $15k.


----------



## Zoom25

Also, to restate my own quote: *The amplifier can only amplify what is there or isn't there in the first place.*
  
 Yes, this is 100% true. Fact. How is this even challengeable? Am I taking crazy pills having to defend this in 2016 in a high end thread!?


----------



## beowulf

twiceboss said:


> pfttttt, you are not the only one suggesting that............
> 
> everyone says mdr z1r has forgiving highs with damn good bass. What is this... the cost.... $2k...................


 
  
 Forgiving highs.. hmm, if by that you mean something that's a bit smoothed out, warmish, definitely not having that brightness that will make your ears bleed, yes.
  
 But it's not without its temperament. They can sound sibilant sometimes. Which is amazing, since I am a fan of really bright signatures... maybe it's just a preference or maybe I have old ears, but I do like a bright sound, grainy. The Z1R have that, but smoothed out, curvy, liquid. The HD800S have it too, quite similar, but with less punch on the mids and bass, less fun. Sub-bass totally absent (yes, regardless of amping).
  
 Oopss, got carried away, thought I was on the Z1R thread, but - you did ask about bass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Alright, now back to the thread subject, I do love the HD800/800S. But bass-wise, hmm, it's not a signature that matches every track. Actually, I think HD800/HD800S + Z1R are a brutal perfect combo (I have a two-headphone holder on my desk and like to think in sets of 2) because one is a really brilliant open set and the other is an outstanding closed set. They are a perfect duo IMHO, with amping being the only major gap, as you can drive the Z1R out of a cherry tomato and the HD800/S need a fusion reactor to sound great.
  
 The Z1R is just better overall (for the price) - BUT - the HD800/800S have qualities that the Z1R cannot match (air/soundstage, that holographic feeling, a brighter, apparently more detailed sound even if that's not extra detail). I do like those 800 qualities a lot, the positioning and layering, that roomy feeling, maybe I need to try more sets but couldn't find that yet, not even close. They're just unique at it. So there's no way to push the 800 aside as irrelevant. Which sucks because I sold mine!
 (Anyone has a good pair of used 800/800S to sell?)
  
 They're both bloody good. But if you want a solid midrange/lows and can go closed... well... it's hand-assembled in Tokyo


----------



## twiceboss

beowulf said:


> Forgiving highs.. hmm, if by that you mean something that's a bit smoothed out, warmish, definitely not having that brightness that will make your ears bleed, yes.
> 
> But it's not without its temperament. They can sound sibilant sometimes. Which is amazing, since I am a fan of really bright signatures... maybe it's just a preference or maybe I have old ears, but I do like a bright sound, grainy. The Z1R have that, but smoothed out, curvy, liquid. The HD800S have it too, quite similar, but with less punch on the mids and bass, less fun. Sub-bass totally absent (yes, regardless of amping).
> 
> ...




Well dont get me wrong. Im just finding a forgiving treble headphone with the bass at par with my current th600. It's hard to find dark sounding but with good clarity and punchy bass. Not gonna use it for any other except edm. I have hd800 for other genre. Any recommendations?


----------



## Zoom25

twiceboss said:


> Well dont get me wrong. Im just finding a forgiving treble headphone with the bass at par with my current th600. It's hard to find *dark sounding but with good clarity and punchy bass. Not gonna use it for any other except edm.* I have hd800 for other genre. Any recommendations?


 
 I found the LCD-2.2 pre-fazor to be the perfect fit for this very reason.


----------



## twiceboss

zoom25 said:


> I found the LCD-2.2 pre-fazor to be the perfect fit for this very reason.




That's awesome. Well gonna sell my th600 first!


----------



## fjrabon

twiceboss said:


> Well dont get me wrong. Im just finding a forgiving treble headphone with the bass at par with my current th600. It's hard to find dark sounding but with good clarity and punchy bass. Not gonna use it for any other except edm. I have hd800 for other genre. Any recommendations?


 

 are you totally opposed to EQ?  The HD800 has incredible power handling, meaning you EQ a lot of bass in, and as long as your amp can push it, the HD800 will handle it distortion free.


----------



## beowulf

twiceboss said:


> Well dont get me wrong. Im just finding a forgiving treble headphone with the bass at par with my current th600. It's hard to find dark sounding but with good clarity and punchy bass. Not gonna use it for any other except edm. I have hd800 for other genre. Any recommendations?


 
  
 Hmm. Not sure I'm the right person to ask. At the moment to my ears anything closed follows behind the Z1R. LCDs, Ethers, well, the ones I listened to at least, which I scientifically like to call "all other".
  
 I wanted ti figure out which closed can I enjoyed the most, so far the Z1R landed that one with a huge advantage on the "fun" factor. Not to mention the build quality and presentation... in that area I think it's not even relative, it's not subjective. The Z1R are the model of the year by far, build quality and packaging/case/materials are epic.
  
 Now the problem - to my ears (since we all have different problems) - is what to have as a second set. Yes, second. For a few years I've been wanting to have just three headphones. It might be silly, but I focused on three.. something for on-the-move-and-work (which means IEMs or some ANC wireless set), plus some closed and open cans. Three.
  
 For the closed ones, I think I'm done for now. Z1R. For open cans... Well, the HD800 are just so good! Really good. HD800S are so good, really, really good (yes, I like them all).
 So, what do you get for a perfect 1 closed + 1 closed combo? 800? 800S? Elear? Utopia? What for opens?


----------



## twiceboss

fjrabon said:


> are you totally opposed to EQ?  The HD800 has incredible power handling, meaning you EQ a lot of bass in, and as long as your amp can push it, the HD800 will handle it distortion free.


 
 Yes, i did for some songs. Not always on since sometimes acoustic will be better without eq. I use equalifypro in spotify. I did increase bass for some reasons and not eq ing for some reasons. However, edm songs to me needs more bass than that. 
  
 Well after i got use to this hd800, th600 is kinda harsh to me even some people said hd800 6khz spike and it doesnt bother me much. Acoustic with that bright treble is friggin awesome.
  
 different opinion when comes to edm, i want mids and bass more than treble. Maybe that's just me. I dont want highs bother me when i crank up the volume to listen to punchy bass.


----------



## twiceboss

yes, it clearly that i just want mids and bass emphasis for edm genre. Dont like piercing highs


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'd go for the LCD-X if you don't want to sacrifice clarity. I can't see the clinical sound of HD800 satisfying you for EDM. They can be tuned to a certain degree of warmth but it sounds like you want euphony. This is not the right thread for you.


----------



## twiceboss

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'd go for the LCD-X if you don't want to sacrifice clarity. I can't see the clinical sound of HD800 satisfying you for EDM. They can be tuned to a certain degree of warmth but it sounds like you want euphony. This is not the right thread for you. Maybe TH900.




Th900? I have friend's th900 , it's sibilant to me for edm


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Good point. Post edited.


----------



## jibzilla

zoom25 said:


> I can guarantee that something like that would get very irritating over a long time. The novelty and comfort would wear out over time.
> 
> Look into a full range solution if your situation allows for it. There are some killer nearfield full range solutions out there, although pricey.


 
  
 Twiceboss I have tried out allot of the best modern headphones out there and Zoom25 is right you want speakers for electronic. Try my adam's that are in my sig. It has to be the particular A7x/Sub8. The a5x/sub7 and a8x/sub10 stink but the a7x/sub8 is amazing and does not take up allot of space or cost an arm and a leg. Factor in a good $500-1k for gik or realtrap bass traps. The hd800's are the king of rock. If you like rock as well then hold on to them.


----------



## jibzilla

zoom25 said:


> Also, to restate my own quote: *The amplifier can only amplify what is there or isn't there in the first place.*
> 
> Yes, this is 100% true. Fact. How is this even challengeable? Am I taking crazy pills having to defend this in 2016 in a high end thread!?


 
  
 Thing is there are some real gems out there source wise. Get a used Yamaha gt2000 or micro bl-91 for $2k tops from yahoojapan or hifido and kind of sky is the limit as far as amplification and driver go. I have even heard a few dacs that can hold their own. My recommendation is to keep things relatively close to each other in price with a bit of emphasis on the driver with speakers and amp and source with headphones.
  
 If you were in a high end s*peaker* thread then yes you would have to pop a few crazy pills. Almost no one put's emphasis on the source or amp for that matter. All about the speaker in that field and in my own experience honestly not bad advice.


----------



## Zoom25

jibzilla said:


> Thing is there are some real gems out there source wise. Get a used Yamaha gt2000 or micro bl-91 for $2k tops from yahoojapan or hifido and kind of sky is the limit as far as amplification and driver go. I have even heard a few dacs that can hold their own. My recommendation is to keep things relatively close to each other in price with a bit of emphasis on the driver with speakers and amp and source with headphones.
> 
> If you were in a high end s*peaker* thread then yes you would have to pop a few crazy pills. *Almost no one put's emphasis on the source or amp for that matter. All about the speaker in that fiel*d and in my own experience honestly not bad advice.


 
  
 Are you saying that in the high end speaker world, the amp is not much of a concern?
  
 IMO, there is zero difference in the importance of source and amplification between TOTL headphones and TOTL speakers. It should be the same philosophy.


----------



## ubs28

People who have TOTL speakers have TOTL DAC's and amplifiers. And they cost more than a house.


----------



## jibzilla

zoom25 said:


> Are you saying that in the high end speaker world, the amp is not much of a concern?
> 
> IMO, there is zero difference in the importance of source and amplification between TOTL headphones and TOTL speakers. It should be the same philosophy.


 
  
 Yes the amp and source are not much of a concern in speaker world. I have heard $100 thrift store TT's and receiver's make $2k speakers sing. Headphones are a much different experience for me. Bottleneck is very real for some headphones. The hd800's and 007mk1's are the biggest beneficiaries to having a well built amp and source behind them. Skimp on those 2 headphones and you will not be thrilled with the sound.


----------



## jibzilla

ubs28 said:


> People who have TOTL speakers have TOTL DAC's and amplifiers. And they cost more than a house.


 
  
 Have you been to allot of speaker forums? Not saying that their are not totl dac's and amp's out there but the number of people using them in speaker land is small. Like 5% small in my readings. Got any examples of people using more expensive source's and amp's than speakers?


----------



## Zoom25

jibzilla said:


> _Yes the amp and source are not much of a concern in speaker world. I have heard $100 thrift store TT's and receiver's make $2k speakers sing. Headphones are a much different experience for me._
> 
> 
> *Bottleneck is very real for some headphones. The hd800's and 007mk1's are the biggest beneficiaries to having a well built amp and source behind them. Skimp on those 2 headphones and you will not be thrilled with the sound.*


 
 I fully agree with you on the second bolded part.
  
 The first italicized part helps me understand in what you were saying previously, so thanks for clarifying that. I have had the same experience like you with some speakers in the 2k range that sound pretty good with almost anything. The example that jumps to my mind is the KEF Q900 off a Marantz amp, like even my PM6004. It's quite hard to make those sound bad IMO. I can feed it with an Apple TV and it will still sound great.
  
 Although, start moving up to something more higher end like PMC, ATC, Amphion, and I guarantee you'll approach the situation the same as you would with your HD 800 and SR 007. Everything starts counting and a bottleneck can make or break the system.
  
 My Marantz, Emotiva, Denon gear makes the Amphion sound broken.


----------



## jibzilla

zoom25 said:


> I fully agree with you on the second bolded part.
> 
> The first italicized part helps me understand in what you were saying previously, so thanks for clarifying that. I have had the same experience like you with some speakers in the 2k range that sound pretty good with almost anything. The example that jumps to my mind is the KEF Q900 off a Marantz amp, like even my PM6004. It's quite hard to make those sound bad IMO. I can feed it with an Apple TV and it will still sound great.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well trust me when I tell you I have eaten allot of crazy pills myself trying to convince people that headphones and speakers are dramatically different from one another. Both from speaker heads that think budget gear is plenty good and headphone heads that think headphones are just mini speakers. I actually think your crazy pills were not ate in vein. Maybe not regular fi but summit fi it seems more people than not are using more expensive sources and amps than headphones.
  
 Save the Tascam and my sources and amps are more expensive than my headphones both $1k, (hd800 was a demo) but include my 4 gik bass traps and the adam's are more expensive and the Tascam gets used for recording way more than listening. I also got a large discount from a friend of mine that works at G.C. on the adam's. I'm also down to admit that the kp-9010 and Walnut V are a bit overkill for the adam's where they are just about right for the hd800 and Elear.
  
 I get where your coming from with your speaker example but I argue that it could be the room. People are pretty creative at hiding traps and diffusers etc. I know speaker heads that actually put the room over the speakers and after listening to some budget-totl speakers in an acoustically perfect room I did not think they were completely coo coo for coco puffs.


----------



## ubs28

jibzilla said:


> Have you been to allot of speaker forums? Not saying that their are not totl dac's and amp's out there but the number of people using them in speaker land is small. Like 5% small in my readings. Got any examples of people using more expensive source's and amp's than speakers?




My boss for example has more expensive DAC + amplifiers + cables + clock than his speakers. 

I don't spend alot of time on the speaker forum. But I know a few guys who are in the speaker scene and I heard their setups.


----------



## Zoom25

jibzilla said:


> Well trust me when I tell you I have eaten allot of crazy pills myself trying to convince people that headphones and speakers are dramatically different from one another. Both from speaker heads that think budget gear is plenty good and headphone heads that think headphones are just mini speakers. I actually think your crazy pills were not ate in vein. Maybe not regular fi but summit fi it seems more people than not are using more expensive sources and amps than headphones.
> 
> Save the Tascam and my sources and amps are more expensive than my headphones both $1k, (hd800 was a demo) but include my 4 gik bass traps and the adam's are more expensive and the Tascam gets used for recording way more than listening. I also got a large discount from a friend of mine that works at G.C. on the adam's. I'm also down to admit that the kp-9010 and Walnut V are a bit overkill for the adam's where they are just about right for the hd800 and Elear.
> 
> *I get where your coming from with your speaker example but I argue that it could be the room. People are pretty creative at hiding traps and diffusers etc. I know speaker heads that actually put the room over the speakers and after listening to some budget-totl speakers in an acoustically perfect room I did not think they were completely coo coo for coco puffs. *


 
  
  
 I'll also agree with the room sentiment. Room matters the most. Period. My room is around 18 feet wide and 60 feet deep. The ceiling has 1 feet of solid insulation. The decay times are low. Even my Mackies sound amazing in that room.
  
 Regarding the amp, source, speaker budgeting things, it depends on who you ask and what forums you visit. On head-fi, most people aren't putting that much into speakers as they are likely to do in headphones. Go to other forums and they'll have everything maxed out and for headphones they'll use HD 600 or some Denon/Sony/Grado. I've used SCM150 actives along with their passive versions on different amps. You really cannot skimp out on amplification and source on those. Even the pre-amp or monitor controller used in the chain shows up on that. It's the exact same way on the Amphions, but of course on a smaller-nearfield scale.
  
 But yeah, at the end of the day, people should do what they're comfortable with. Anyways, back to HD 800. Got sidetracked there.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

These little things are amazing!!!!
  

  
 They have literally breathed new life into my HD800's.  I can't sing their praise enough.  Every HD800 owner out owes it to themselves to get a pair.


----------



## FLTWS

bigfatpaulie said:


> These little things are amazing!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> They have literally breathed new life into my HD800's.  I can't sing their praise enough.  Every HD800 owner out owes it to themselves to get a pair.


 

 Where can I get these inserts?
 Thanks.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

fltws said:


> Where can I get these inserts?
> Thanks.


 
  
 Contact @Sorrodje   
  
 He designed it.  It's called the Super Dupont Resonator to me, it is easily by a wide margin the best thing out there for the 800's.  I didn't care for the Anax mod, rug liner, etc.


----------



## apaar123

How do they compare to ether c flow?


----------



## lukeap69

bigfatpaulie said:


> These little things are amazing!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have been saying that all along. 

My HD-800SD paired with Glenn's OTL amp and Holo Spring DAC Level 3 is a glorious combo.


----------



## MattTCG

Question: does anyone know if you can safely bend the headband to increase the clamp a bit?


----------



## bigfatpaulie

matttcg said:


> Question: does anyone know if you can safely bend the headband to increase the clamp a bit?


 
  
 The soft foam part on the headband (that actually touches your head) can be pulled right off.  It just snaps into place.  Once you do that, you'll see that the headband is just one strip of metal and one strip of plastic so it can be bent pretty well.


----------



## thefitz

lukeap69 said:


> I have been saying that all along.
> 
> My HD-800SD paired with Glenn's OTL amp and Holo Spring DAC Level 3 is a glorious combo.


 

 Agreed - are there any downsides to this mod?
  
 Hi-fi has to be one of the most contrarian hobbies there is - but does anyone prefer the original HD800 to the SD800?


----------



## Sorrodje

bigfatpaulie said:


> These little things are amazing!!!!
> 
> 
> They have literally breathed new life into my HD800's.  I can't sing their praise enough.  Every HD800 owner out owes it to themselves to get a pair.


 
  
 Thks. Much appreciated comment . Especially coming from you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . 
  


thefitz said:


> but does anyone prefer the original HD800 to the SD800?


 
  
 Amongst the few hundred people who bought me a pair, only 2 or 3 people came back to stock from what I know. many people sold their HD800 after applying the mod though. As I always told everybody, the mod helps to like the HD800 more . it does not change the headphone into something else and people who dislikes the HD800 won't like much more the modded one.


----------



## fjrabon

thefitz said:


> Agreed - are there any downsides to this mod?
> 
> Hi-fi has to be one of the most contrarian hobbies there is - but does anyone prefer the original HD800 to the SD800?


 

 I do.  But for a non-normal reason.  I prefer the standard because it's what SonarWorks readings are made on, so if you do the SD mod, and then apply SonarWorks, it sounds worse, since it's applying an EQ curve to a headphone with a different FR than what the measurements were based on.  

 I rate them as: 1) HD800 with SonarWorks 2) SD800 3) SD800 with SonarWorks 4) completely stock, non-EQd HD800


----------



## Sorrodje

Interesting, there's no way to customize a bit your sonarwork settings ?


----------



## MattTCG

sorrodje said:


> Interesting, there's no way to customize a bit your sonarwork settings ?


 
  
 Yes, there are tweaks that you can make. Primarily I run on the "flat" setting. But there are also settings for the Harmon curve and then a more custom setting that allows the control of bass and tilt.


----------



## Sorrodje

Ok .thks .


----------



## fjrabon

sorrodje said:


> Interesting, there's no way to customize a bit your sonarwork settings ?


 

 yes, but they're all based on the base measurement of the headphone's frequency response.  You could, theoretically, do the SD mod, and then send it in to SonarWorks to be re-measured, but to me that seemed counterproductive, to do a mod that mostly changes FR, just to EQ it back to neutral.  

 As Matt mentioned, you can adjust SonarWorks, but those adjustments are still made based on it using the HD800's stock FR as the point of reference.  If you do the SD mod and then turn on SonarWorks, it will actually sound sucked out at 6kHz, as both the software and the mod do double duty in pulling those frequencies out.  You'd then have the mirror image problem from where you started.


----------



## Sorrodje

@fjrabon : oh yea. it would be counterproductive. no doubt. i was just asking for my own curiosity.


----------



## thefitz

fjrabon said:


> I do.  But for a non-normal reason.  I prefer the standard because it's what SonarWorks readings are made on, so if you do the SD mod, and then apply SonarWorks, it sounds worse, since it's applying an EQ curve to a headphone with a different FR than what the measurements were based on.
> 
> I rate them as: 1) HD800 with SonarWorks 2) SD800 3) SD800 with SonarWorks 4) completely stock, non-EQd HD800


 

 Fair. But whatever claim you make on the sonic properties of a headphone, someone, somewhere will claim the opposite.
  
 i.e. the fact that there's someone on this planet that currently owns an HD700


----------



## MWSVette

thefitz said:


> Fair. But whatever claim you make on the sonic properties of a headphone, someone, somewhere will claim the opposite.
> 
> i.e. the fact that there's someone on this planet that currently owns an HD700


 
 Actually there is someone who owns both the HD700 and HD800 here now...


----------



## twiceboss

i m having problem with sonarworks, it produces ticking sound right after i connect to output. Any problems?


----------



## DavidA

mwsvette said:


> Actually there is someone who owns both the HD700 and HD800 here now...


 
 make that 2 who own both HD-700 and HD-800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  FWIW I also know 3 others who have both


----------



## thefitz

I don't care who I offend - anybody who owns and likes the HD 700 do it out of sarcasm or to be difficult. 

Just like tequila drinkers.


----------



## johnjen

twiceboss said:


> i m having problem with sonarworks, it produces ticking sound right after i connect to output. Any problems?


 
 Check for digital clipping and adjust the input/output levels accordingly.
  
 JJ


----------



## Peti

The HD700 has been getting sooo much bad rep I have to get a pair to audition them for myself! I mean sometimes you can get a used pair for under 300$...
  
 But I could never justify to purchase them as I own the Classic HD800.


----------



## MWSVette

peti said:


> The HD700 has been getting sooo much bad rep I have to get a pair to audition them for myself! I mean sometimes you can get a used pair for under 300$...
> 
> But I could never justify to purchase them as I own the Classic HD800.


 
 +1 They are a highly underrated set of cans.  Especially for the prices you can buy them for today...


----------



## shultzee

mwsvette said:


> peti said:
> 
> 
> > The HD700 has been getting sooo much bad rep I have to get a pair to audition them for myself! I mean sometimes you can get a used pair for under 300$...
> ...


 

 I agree with this.  Wish I still had my pair.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Does the Sennheiser HD700 suffer from the same hard-to-drive challenge as the HD800, HD600, and HD650?


----------



## fjrabon

ruthieandjohn said:


> Does the Sennheiser HD700 suffer from the same hard-to-drive challenge as the HD800, HD600, and HD650?




It's pretty easy to drive, but can be revealing of noisy or harsh amps. It's a nightmare with the O2, for example.


----------



## akg fanboy

Even my akg k601 is harder to drive than both hd700 and hd800. My he560 is the hardest headphone to drive and yet my mstage hpa 2 classic at low gain can power them all quite easily even though the specs sheet says it only has 310mw @300 ohm


----------



## fjrabon

akg fanboy said:


> Even my akg k601 is harder to drive than both hd700 and hd800. My he560 is the hardest headphone to drive and yet my mstage hpa 2 classic at low gain can power them all quite easily even though the specs sheet says it only has 310mw @300 ohm


 

 the HD800 isn't difficult to drive in a power sense.  It's just very revealing, so it will tell you pretty clearly if your amp has issues.  Very few headphones need much more than 100 mW to be properly driven at non-hearing-damaging levels.  The K601 needs a bit more power, but isn't quite as revealing.  

 The only (normal) headphone I'd call truly difficult to drive in the sense of needing more power is the HE6.


----------



## akg fanboy

fjrabon said:


> the HD800 isn't difficult to drive in a power sense.  It's just very revealing, so it will tell you pretty clearly if your amp has issues.  Very few headphones need much more than 100 mW to be properly driven at non-hearing-damaging levels.  The K601 needs a bit more power, but isn't quite as revealing.
> 
> The only (normal) headphone I'd call truly difficult to drive in the sense of needing more power is the HE6.


 
 Yes that is why I use my hd800 when I want an incredibly transparent and effortlessly clean sound, my k601 for a more relaxed and midrange focused sound, and hd700 for some more bass thump.
  
 When you say 100mw, do you mean @300ohm or the typical 50ohm rating? That is pretty interesting and explains why my mstage can drive all my headphones so easily.
 How much power would the he6 need for a good volume? And does the k1000 use as much power as the he6?


----------



## fjrabon

akg fanboy said:


> Yes that is why I use my hd800 when I want an incredibly transparent and effortlessly clean sound, my k601 for a more relaxed and midrange focused sound, and hd700 for some more bass thump.
> 
> When you say 100mw, do you mean @300ohm or the typical 50ohm rating? That is pretty interesting and explains why my mstage can drive all my headphones so easily.
> How much power would the he6 need for a good volume? And does the k1000 use as much power as the he6?


 
 I always quote the wattage needed at the headphone's nominal impedance.  There's no reason for quoting @50 ohms, if the headphone isn't 50 ohms.  Amps have different levels of power fall off at higher resistances.  Some amps actually have more power at 300 ohms than they do at 50 ohms.  
  
 The K1000 was specifically the headphone I meant to exclude when I said "normal headphone."  I don't exactly know its power requirements, but I know they're pretty intense.
  
 The HE6 needs about 5-6 watts at its nominal impedance of 50 ohms.  It also needs that power provided with an amp that's sub 5 ohm output impedance or it can really sound sluggish.  That's the true challenge of the HE6, needing a ton of power at a relatively low output impedance, as most higher power amps are high output impedance.


----------



## akg fanboy

fjrabon said:


> I always quote the wattage needed at the headphone's nominal impedance.  There's no reason for quoting @50 ohms, if the headphone isn't 50 ohms.  Amps have different levels of power fall off at higher resistances.  Some amps actually have more power at 300 ohms than they do at 50 ohms.
> 
> The K1000 was specifically the headphone I meant to exclude when I said "normal headphone."  I don't exactly know its power requirements, but I know they're pretty intense.
> 
> The HE6 needs about 5-6 watts at its nominal impedance of 50 ohms.  It also needs that power provided with an amp that's sub 5 ohm output impedance or it can really sound sluggish.  That's the true challenge of the HE6, needing a ton of power at a relatively low output impedance, as most higher power amps are high output impedance.


 
 Oh okay, I was referring to the part when you said very few headphones need more than 100mw, and manufacturers usually state their main amp specs at around 50ohm, just wanted to make sure.
  
 If the he6 really needs 5w that is pretty hardcore, I'm glad I'm not interested in the he6 otherwise I would go broke. I learned about output impedance the hard way since my mstage has 10ohm which does not work well with my w5000s


----------



## fjrabon

akg fanboy said:


> Oh okay, I was referring to the part when you said very few headphones need more than 100mw, and manufacturers usually state their main amp specs at around 50ohm, just wanted to make sure.
> 
> If the he6 really needs 5w that is pretty hardcore, I'm glad I'm not interested in the he6 otherwise I would go broke. I learned about output impedance the hard way since my mstage has 10ohm which does not work well with my w5000s


 

 best route with the HE6 is to just get speaker taps made and use a speaker amp (same with the K1000)


----------



## akg fanboy

fjrabon said:


> best route with the HE6 is to just get speaker taps made and use a speaker amp (same with the K1000)


 
 So I am assuming a speaker amp with around 60-80w at 4ohm can drive the he6 properly? Assuming wattage halves each time you half the ohm.... which might be wrong


----------



## JamieMcC

akg fanboy said:


> So I am assuming a speaker amp with around 60-80w at 4ohm can drive the he6 properly? Assuming wattage halves each time you half the ohm.... which might be wrong


 
  
 The HE-6 I find can be quiet am picky as well and just because you use xxx amount of watts is no guarantee the will sing.  I prefer to use a class  A power amp and a seperate DHT preamp having tried a bunch of amps up to 150W with mine


----------



## icebear

akg fanboy said:


> ... Assuming wattage halves each time you half the ohm.... *which might be wrong*


 
  
*Indeed it is. *
  
 The output power ususally doubles if the impedence drops by 50%.
 e.g. 80W into 8Ohms, 160W into 4Ohms, 320W into 2Ohms etc...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, in case the amp can deliver the current.


----------



## akg fanboy

icebear said:


> *Indeed it is.*
> 
> The output power ususally doubles if the impedence drops by 50%.
> e.g. 80W into 8Ohms, 160W into 4Ohms, 320W into 2Ohms etc... , in case the amp can deliver the current.




Yes that is what I meant, I worded it wrong. I just wanted to make sure because sometimes schiit/matrix amp output power does more or less


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I think that k1000 and he6 both scale superbly with better gear, though with mj2 I find both satisfactory. Obviously they can both reach greater heights with krell and the forthcoming statement amp from woo. 

Curious how jotunheim handles k1000.


----------



## Peti

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I think that k1000 and he6 both scale superbly with better gear, though with mj2 I find both satisfactory. Obviously they can both reach greater heights with krell and the forthcoming statement amp from woo.
> 
> Curious how jotunheim handles k1000.


 

 I've heard the Jotunheim - K1k combo at the Schiit Show, but, alas, I could not compare them too other amps, so I can't say for sure, but I quite enjoyed what I heard. The only headphones (?) with wider soundstage than the HD800, loved it!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Really? I emailed them about k1k and nick claimed they didn't have one so couldn't give me a recommendation.


----------



## MWSVette

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Really? I emailed them about k1k and nick claimed they didn't have one so couldn't give me a recommendation.


 
 Schiit does not generally give recommendations on headphone/amp pairings...


----------



## ColtMrFire

Hello.  I will be joining the HD800 club next week when my package arrives! 
  
 I am very excited to own this HP.  I have demoed it before and really like it.  I have a Jotunheim/Modi multibit combo from coax/CD player.  The HD800 is coming with a balanced upgrade cable, so that should make an improvement.
  
 I currently have a Beyer T90, with far more pronounced treble, so the HD800 treble doesn't really bother me.  You have not heard treble until you've heard the T90.


----------



## Arniesb

coltmrfire said:


> Hello.  I will be joining the HD800 club next week when my package arrives!
> 
> I am very excited to own this HP.  I have demoed it before and really like it.  I have a Jotunheim/Modi multibit combo from coax/CD player.  The HD800 is coming with a balanced upgrade cable, so that should make an improvement.
> 
> I currently have a Beyer T90, with far more pronounced treble, so the HD800 treble doesn't really bother me.  You have not heard treble until you've heard the T90.


Congrats, but dont you worry HD800 whould sound kinda bright with Jot? Even with my really warm A20 it sounded too bright... Well... Good thing you have Multibit dac, that will help to make it sound sound smoothter and less harsh.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Are there any amps in the Jotunheim's price range ($400-$500) that offer the same level of performance (Jot punches well above its price range, as I've compared it to more expensive amps like Ragnarok and Black Widow), and also feature balanced connections... I want to take advantage of the balanced cable coming with the headphones, obviously.
  
 I have heard the Vali, and it did not pair that well with the T90 (too bright), but I hear it's great with the HD800.  The only downside is I noticed instrument timbre was a bit one note.  Never heard Vali 2, but I am not into tubes (I owned Valhalla 2 before, and while a great amp, I just do not like euphonic distortion in my music... I like clean, uncolored signal, which is why I prefer SS amps).  I realize Vali 1 is tube hybrid, but I did not mind.
  
 I have the Modi multibit DAC, so am not too worried about bright amps, as it is very smooth and natural sounding.  And having the T90 with Jotunheim, it's a bright pairing and I do not mind at all, except for pop music.
  
 As you can see, T90 has a treble mountain, so I am not worried about the 800 being bright, it's nothing compared to T90, and I really like the sound signature.


----------



## reddog

I agree with you, the Jotunheim is of great value. If the Jotunheim had been released earlier, I would has not gotten the Asgard 2 or the Lyr2. But regardless I really enjoyed the HD800, a friend let me demo. I though the MJ2 and Ragnarock, really made the HD800 sing. However the HD800 sounded being driven by my Yggdrasil and Liquid Gold combo. I hope to pick up a used pair of HD800's, next year.


----------



## thefitz

coltmrfire said:


> Are there any amps in the Jotunheim's price range ($400-$500) that offer the same level of performance (Jot punches well above its price range, as I've compared it to more expensive amps like Ragnarok and Black Widow), and also feature balanced connections... I want to take advantage of the balanced cable coming with the headphones, obviously.
> 
> I have heard the Vali, and it did not pair that well with the T90 (too bright), but I hear it's great with the HD800.  The only downside is I noticed instrument timbre was a bit one note.  Never heard Vali 2, but I am not into tubes (I owned Valhalla 2 before, and while a great amp, I just do not like euphonic distortion in my music... I like clean, uncolored signal, which is why I prefer SS amps).  I realize Vali 1 is tube hybrid, but I did not mind.
> 
> ...


 

 Have you ever heard a T1? I had them both and preferred the T1. A shame you'd have to re-terminate the cables to XLR.


----------



## ColtMrFire

thefitz said:


> Have you ever heard a T1? I had them both and preferred the T1. A shame you'd have to re-terminate the cables to XLR.


 
  
 A friend loaned me his T1 (1st gen) for a few weeks, which he had reterminated to XLR (and sent me a SE adapter as well).  
  
 I did not like it at all.  Might have been bad synergy with Jotunheim, not sure, but I didn't like it, strange tonality, hard to describe... just didn't like how it sounded.


----------



## thekorsen

Time for a bit of a mad science experiment with the HD800.
  
 I'm going to be trying to pair the HD800 with a subwoofer (dayton 1200) in order to see if it can fill in the bass in where it falls off on the headphone without adding distortion via EQ, as well as add the physicality that only a subwoofer can supply. Also, because I am using OOYH to simulate the sound of a well treated speaker room, the physicality of the subwoofer might help complete the illusion...or mess it up since the time delays imposed by my poorly treated/shaped living room might mess up the timing of the bass. I'll post my findings back here if anyone is interested in hearing how it goes.


----------



## Thenewguy007

thekorsen said:


> Time for a bit of a mad science experiment with the HD800.
> 
> I'm going to be trying to pair the HD800 with a subwoofer (dayton 1200) in order to see if it can fill in the bass in where it falls off on the headphone without adding distortion via EQ, as well as add the physicality that only a subwoofer can supply. Also, because I am using OOYH to simulate the sound of a well treated speaker room, the physicality of the subwoofer might help complete the illusion...or mess it up since the time delays imposed by my poorly treated/shaped living room might mess up the timing of the bass. I'll post my findings back here if anyone is interested in hearing how it goes.




Hope your drivers don't blow up!


----------



## johnjen

thekorsen said:


> Time for a bit of a mad science experiment with the HD800.
> 
> I'm going to be trying to pair the HD800 with a subwoofer (dayton 1200) in order to see if it can fill in the bass in where it falls off on the headphone without adding distortion via EQ, as well as add the physicality that only a subwoofer can supply. Also, because I am using OOYH to simulate the sound of a well treated speaker room, the physicality of the subwoofer might help complete the illusion...or mess it up since the time delays imposed by my poorly treated/shaped living room might mess up the timing of the bass. I'll post my findings back here if anyone is interested in hearing how it goes.


 
 You might consider the 8" or 10" driver instead of the 12".
 I say this because they would be able to match the speed of the 800's better.
 And unless you're trying to fill a larger room, the 8"/10" might fill your need a bit better.
  
 Just a thought.
  
 And until you have tried to EQ the bottom end for your 800's you won't have much of a real idea as to what your 800's are capable of and can deliver.
  
 I have EQ'd my 800's and I have no need nor desire to add a subwoofer, mostly due to the degree of inner detail and resolution that the 800's can provide.
 And my EQ and the subsequent acoustic power output extends down to below 10Hz.
  
 And I know that even 6" woofers let alone 8" or bigger will never be able to provide this same degree of inner detail and resolution in the very bottom end when compared to the drivers in the 800's.
  
 This is the age old problem of driver matching in the extreme bottom end to get them all to match up in terms of responsiveness and articulation.
 This is where a single driver that can 'do it all', as long as it has sufficient capability, will provide *'Better'* results.
  
 Just another thought.
  
 JJ


----------



## ecva

Just wanted to share my current setup.    Very impressed the mojo was able to drive these cans.


----------



## thekorsen

johnjen said:


> You might consider the 8" or 10" driver instead of the 12".
> I say this because they would be able to match the speed of the 800's better.
> And unless you're trying to fill a larger room, the 8"/10" might fill your need a bit better.
> 
> ...


 
 On the first point, I decided to go with a 12'' because the room it is going in has a large air volume, as well as to get a good response from the 30hz region. I suppose I could have gotten 2 8'' woofers instead, but that would have cost more than I was really willing to throw at this project. Still, I wish I had considered the driver speed problem you mentioned earlier but I'll just see how this plays out for now.
  
 On the second point, I have been EQing the HD800s since the day I got them. The real issue I find with them is that they distort quickly right about at 65hz when EQed. OOYH might also have something to do with why it starts distorting so quickly there, but I love the effect too much to not use it. Even worse, I was spoiled with the TH-X00s and thus know what good and powerful bass can sound like, and EQing the HD800s right up to where they start to distort still can't reach the X00s level of bass. That's an unfair bass benchmark to try to reach on almost any headphone though, all the more reason to try something a bit crazy to meet it.
  
 Am I just another insane bass head? Maybe. Still, if there is a possibility of finding a headphone setup that can both sound and _feel_ like a live performance, you can bet I'm interested.


----------



## fjrabon

thekorsen said:


> On the first point, I decided to go with a 12'' because the room it is going in has a large air volume, as well as to get a good response from the 30hz region. I suppose I could have gotten 2 8'' woofers instead, but that would have cost more than I was really willing to throw at this project. Still, I wish I had considered the driver speed problem you mentioned earlier but I'll just see how this plays out for now.
> 
> On the second point, I have been EQing the HD800s since the day I got them. The real issue I find with them is that they distort quickly right about at 65hz when EQed. OOYH might also have something to do with why it starts distorting so quickly there, but I love the effect too much to not use it. Even worse, I was spoiled with the TH-X00s and thus know what good and powerful bass can sound like, and EQing the HD800s right up to where they start to distort still can't reach the X00s level of bass. That's an unfair bass benchmark to try to reach on almost any headphone though, all the more reason to try something a bit crazy to meet it.
> 
> Am I just another insane bass head? Maybe. Still, if there is a possibility of finding a headphone setup that can both sound and _feel_ like a live performance, you can bet I'm interested.


 

 are you using a crossover?  Letting the HD800 run at full range with a subwoofer will absolutely give you all kinds of phase issues, and that's if you're lucky.  It will absolutely be impossible to get them to be precisely in sync, given the drastically different distances sound has to go from the headphone to your ear and the woofer and your ear.  I've never seen this pulled off well, though the potential reward is so tantalizing.  This is why the bass rumble seats have actually tended to be more successful, as they provide the visceral impact, without being auditory, and thus running into all kinds of phase issues.  Even with a good crossover, you're going to have phase issues, though it does limit them.


----------



## beowulf

thekorsen said:


> Am I just another insane bass head? Maybe. Still, if there is a possibility of finding a headphone setup that can both sound and _feel_ like a live performance, you can bet I'm interested.


 
  
 Closest I got to that was with the Z1R, which I'm still using. To my ears it combined the refinement and detail of the HD800S, with a more visceral (yet realistic) bass and overall lusher sound. The extra sense of air of the 800 can be very satisfying sometimes tho, depending on the recording.


----------



## thekorsen

fjrabon said:


> are you using a crossover?  Letting the HD800 run at full range with a subwoofer will absolutely give you all kinds of phase issues, and that's if you're lucky.  It will absolutely be impossible to get them to be precisely in sync, given the drastically different distances sound has to go from the headphone to your ear and the woofer and your ear.  I've never seen this pulled off well, though the potential reward is so tantalizing.  This is why the bass rumble seats have actually tended to be more successful, as they provide the visceral impact, without being auditory, and thus running into all kinds of phase issues.  Even with a good crossover, you're going to have phase issues, though it does limit them.


 
 I was trying to think of how to make it work. Since I was running it from my PC, I was thinking of trying to find a way to delay the signal to the headphone down to the cutoff frequency, then run where it cuts off directly to the sub without a delay. Once that is achieved, I'd spend the next few days fine tuning the delay and cutoff frequency. Still searching for software that'll manage that, but something like that has to exist somewhere right?


----------



## fjrabon

thekorsen said:


> I was trying to think of how to make it work. Since I was running it from my PC, I was thinking of trying to find a way to delay the signal to the headphone down to the cutoff frequency, then run where it cuts off directly to the sub without a delay. Once that is achieved, I'd spend the next few days fine tuning the delay and cutoff frequency. Still searching for software that'll manage that, but something like that has to exist somewhere right?


 

 there are professional crossovers that do this.  I don't know of any software that would do it, though I am sure it exists, it's just that what I always used was already built into the crossover.  When I was doing live sound, I could simply connect a microphone to the crossover, and let it run a pink noise track.  This automatically measured all the speakers, set the optimum crossover point and set any delays to minimize phase issues as much as possible.  It was a startling night and day difference in clarity and power.  After we updated to this crossover system, I was able to run at much lower power levels, and get even better sense of bass power and midrange/treble clarity.  

 Fine tuning a crossover by ear is, yeah... um... yeah... good luck man.  If you get it out of audible delay territory, you then get into phase cancellation which will destroy the sense of bass power and collapse the soundstage.  It's possible, but yeah, it's really, really freaking hard.  Especially with headphones and a sub.


----------



## thekorsen

fjrabon said:


> there are professional crossovers that do this.  I don't know of any software that would do it, though I am sure it exists, it's just that what I always used was already built into the crossover.  When I was doing live sound, I could simply connect a microphone to the crossover, and let it run a pink noise track.  This automatically measured all the speakers, set the optimum crossover point and set any delays to minimize phase issues as much as possible.  It was a startling night and day difference in clarity and power.  After we updated to this crossover system, I was able to run at much lower power levels, and get even better sense of bass power and midrange/treble clarity.
> 
> Fine tuning a crossover by ear is, yeah... um... yeah... good luck man.  If you get it out of audible delay territory, you then get into phase cancellation which will destroy the sense of bass power and collapse the soundstage.  It's possible, but yeah, it's really, really freaking hard.  Especially with headphones and a sub.


 
 Darn, didn't think phase would be that much of an issue. Thought it would just be playing with the time delay and 180 phase shift on the subwoofer after finding a good crossover frequency setting.
  
 So to do it right, would I need to compensate for how each frequency band (say 30hz to 31hz)  reacts to the room and the time it takes to reach the user, resulting in a different time offset for different frequencies? Or in math speak, instead of a constant time delay for the subwoofer, is a logarithmic one that is a function of frequency needed? If so...I might be regretting this purchase in a hurry.


----------



## twiceboss

thekorsen said:


> On the first point, I decided to go with a 12'' because the room it is going in has a large air volume, as well as to get a good response from the 30hz region. I suppose I could have gotten 2 8'' woofers instead, but that would have cost more than I was really willing to throw at this project. Still, I wish I had considered the driver speed problem you mentioned earlier but I'll just see how this plays out for now.
> 
> On the second point, I have been EQing the HD800s since the day I got them. The real issue I find with them is that they distort quickly right about at 65hz when EQed. OOYH might also have something to do with why it starts distorting so quickly there, but I love the effect too much to not use it. Even worse, I was spoiled with the TH-X00s and thus know what good and powerful bass can sound like, and EQing the HD800s right up to where they start to distort still can't reach the X00s level of bass. That's an unfair bass benchmark to try to reach on almost any headphone though, all the more reason to try something a bit crazy to meet it.
> 
> Am I just another insane bass head? Maybe. Still, if there is a possibility of finding a headphone setup that can both sound and _feel_ like a live performance, you can bet I'm interested.


 
 How you connect subwoofer running one time with hd800? I would love to try it. I have this RCA cheap subwoofer that connected with my daily speaker system, if only i can make the subwoofer working too during my listening with hd800+mojo.


----------



## fjrabon

thekorsen said:


> Darn, didn't think phase would be that much of an issue. Thought it would just be playing with the time delay and 180 phase shift on the subwoofer after finding a good crossover frequency setting.
> 
> So to do it right, would I need to compensate for how each frequency band (say 30hz to 31hz)  reacts to the room and the time it takes to reach the user, resulting in a different time offset for different frequencies? Or in math speak, instead of a constant time delay for the subwoofer, is a logarithmic one that is a function of frequency needed? If so...I might be regretting this purchase in a hurry.


 

 I mean it's hard to say without just trying it.  Theoretically those are all issues that could cause problems.  Whether they practically matter will just depend on the specifics of your system, room and relative positions of the headphone and sub.  The other issue is that once you tune it, you won't really be able to move around with the headphones, as significant movement will change the timing aspects you worked so hard for.  But again, this might be all academic, or it might make it impossible to work properly.  I've never really seen it pulled off with more than passable results, but I've also never seen somebody devote a well tuned crossover system to it either.  Most of the efforts I've seen were just "well, I added my sub in to my K701, and let the headphones play full range, why does this sound like crap, ah well, I give up."


----------



## ColtMrFire

Just got the HD800 in the mail.
  
 Ran SE for a minute, then switched to the balanced cable (Canare L-4E6AT with Neutrik NC-MXX connector, from Charleston Cable Company) through Jotunheim fed by Mimby with Coax from CD player.
  
 First impressions after playing a couple tracks of Mozart's Requiem and Miles Davis' 'Four and More" live performance is...
  
 WOW!  Especially the jazz... overwhelming.  My T90s are detailed, but too bright and do not have the layering and musical sophistication of the soundscape.  I am hearing details I did not even hear with the T90, and they are far more neutral, which I like.
  
 The balanced cable makes a noticeable (positive difference), fuller sound, warmer, more detailed, better soundstage, less sterile...
  
 Back with more impressions after some heavy duty listening.  But first impression is extremely positive.


----------



## Sorrodje

Congrats


----------



## MattTCG

coltmrfire said:


> Just got the HD800 in the mail.
> 
> Ran SE for a minute, then switched to the balanced cable (Canare L-4E6AT with Neutrik NC-MXX connector, from Charleston Cable Company) through Jotunheim fed by Mimby with Coax from CD player.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's great! Some people have the opposite initial reaction and give up on them quickly. Even without mods or EQ, the hd800 is in a class onto itself when it comes to Classical music IMO. But please do yourself the favor of trying out the Sonarworks EQ free trial if you have do so already. hd800 plus Sonarworks might just take you to audiophile heaven...


----------



## ColtMrFire

matttcg said:


> That's great! Some people have the opposite initial reaction and give up on them quickly. Even without mods or EQ, the hd800 is in a class onto itself when it comes to Classical music IMO. But please do yourself the favor of trying out the Sonarworks EQ free trial if you have do so already. hd800 plus Sonarworks might just take you to audiophile heaven...


 
  
 I actually bought the sonarworks plugin a while back when I was using the Senn HD558, and used the 598 curve, since they have the same drivers.  It was indeed amazing.
  
 BUT,
  
 I have since given up on computer audio when I compared the USB connection (even using the Uptone Regen) to the Mimby with Coax.  It was no contest, coax was flat out better in every single way, and made the USB sound plain bad (in comparison).  The Mimby actually measures much better through coax than USB, I believe atomicbob did the measurement when Mimby came out...
  
 So I want to try the plugin but am not looking forward to using USB again.  Of course it's possible when I upgrade to Gumby or Yggy, the USB will be better, but there's really no point with mimby, even if the sonarworks does a great job with the HD800, I will be missing the much better coax connection.
  
 I may try it though just to see what it sounds like...


----------



## MattTCG

coltmrfire said:


> I actually bought the sonarworks plugin a while back when I was using the Senn HD558, and used the 598 curve, since they have the same drivers.  It was indeed amazing.
> 
> BUT,
> 
> ...


 
  
 I will bet money that...
  
 usb>mimby>sonarworks>hd800  will spank the benefit of using coax.


----------



## twiceboss

coltmrfire said:


> Just got the HD800 in the mail.
> 
> Ran SE for a minute, then switched to the balanced cable (Canare L-4E6AT with Neutrik NC-MXX connector, from Charleston Cable Company) through Jotunheim fed by Mimby with Coax from CD player.
> 
> ...




Wow. U got the wow impression kinda early compared with me. I felt wow after 1 to 5 days hahah


----------



## ColtMrFire

matttcg said:


> I will bet money that...
> 
> usb>mimby>sonarworks>hd800  will spank the benefit of using coax.


 
  
 I may try it just to find out....


----------



## ColtMrFire

twiceboss said:


> Wow. U got the wow impression kinda early compared with me. I felt wow after 1 to 5 days hahah


 
  
 Maybe because I bought a used pair and it was already burned in...?
  
 Anyway, whoever said these don't have bass is flat out wrong.  Listening to Flying Lotus' 'Until The Quiet Comes', the opening two tracks have ridiculous full, localized and detailed bass.. not ear drum smashing, but substantial... these are amazing with electronic so far!


----------



## twiceboss

coltmrfire said:


> Maybe because I bought a used pair and it was already burned in...?
> 
> Anyway, whoever said these don't have bass is flat out wrong.  Listening to Flying Lotus' 'Until The Quiet Comes', the opening two tracks have ridiculous full, localized and detailed bass.. not ear drum smashing, but substantial... these are amazing with electronic so far!




I also got a used one. Perfect condition.

Maybe i moved from fun cans. Fostex cans are not so neutral. But now i feel th600 is missing kinda a lot if mids after get used to hd800.

If u can find someone who have mojo, try it. Well if hugo or tt will be better for sure which i never heard them yet. Chord improves the details kinda "not going back" feeling.


----------



## twiceboss

Hd800 has a lot of good low end bass. They are just not subwoofer style. Fostex is subwoofer style and im honored to try out focal elear bass if i do have chance.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> Maybe because I bought a used pair and it was already burned in...?
> 
> Anyway, whoever said these don't have bass is flat out wrong.  Listening to Flying Lotus' 'Until The Quiet Comes', the opening two tracks have ridiculous full, localized and detailed bass.. not ear drum smashing, but substantial... these are amazing with electronic so far!


 

 I think the reason you were wowed right off the bat is coming from the T90.  For a lot of people, the signature takes some getting used to before you can pick up on the technical brilliance of the HD800 (resolution, soundstage and transient performance).  For you, the HD800 was actually a step towards neutrality, which means you had the benefit of a more balanced sound AND the HD800's still unsurpassed technical brilliance (I think in recent years other headphones have matched it in resolution and transient performance, but none have exceeded it, and none even match it in all three, IMHO, YMMV, etc).


----------



## ColtMrFire

Well this sucks.  I got a new computer recently and tried installing sonaworks again to use with foobar (using a VST wrapper, worked last time), and it's saying my activation code (which I paid $70 for) was already used on another computer....


----------



## RCBinTN

matttcg said:


> I will bet money that...
> 
> usb>mimby>sonarworks>hd800  will spank the benefit of using coax.


 
  
 Personally, I use toslink for digital transport and have never used EQ with headphones, because I thought it sounded somewhat veiled and less than natural, which is always my goal with music.
  
 But now you got me interested, Matt.  What is Sonarworks?


----------



## twiceboss

fjrabon said:


> I think the reason you were wowed right off the bat is coming from the T90.  For a lot of people, the signature takes some getting used to before you can pick up on the technical brilliance of the HD800 (resolution, soundstage and transient performance).  For you, the HD800 was actually a step towards neutrality, which means you had the benefit of a more balanced sound AND the HD800's still unsurpassed technical brilliance (I think in recent years other headphones have matched it in resolution and transient performance, but none have exceeded it, and none even match it in all three, IMHO, YMMV, etc).


 
 True.
  
 To me HD800 is not a headphone that u can get the WOW right after listening to it. Needs some time to figure out the freaking airy soundstage and how the mids are delivered even with that damn huge soundstage.
  
 My first impression was honestly. "meh, just a regular headphone with kinda bigger soundstage and yeah... another headphones"
  
 But after some hours, i feel the difference. Soundstage, clarity and the separation of each sounds.
  
 Not an easy to judge headphone for sure!


----------



## twiceboss

rcbintn said:


> Personally, I use toslink for digital transport and have never used EQ with headphones, because I thought it sounded somewhat veiled and less than natural, which is always my goal with music.
> 
> But now you got me interested, Matt.  What is Sonarworks?


 
 would love to know how to use sonarworks too. From A-Z tutorial.
  
 I tried before and it was fail


----------



## ColtMrFire

Apparently I can transfer the license, but I have to wait for them to email me.
  
 Sonarworks is substantial.  When I was using computer audio I swore I would never listen without it.  It takes your headphones to another level sonically... it is hard to describe, but it takes out all the flaws and expands on the virtues of the headphone.
  
 You can use it as a VST plugin with audio programs like JRiver, foobar (with George Yohng's VST wrapper)... there is a free trial for 30 days, but it was well worth the $70 I paid,


----------



## ColtMrFire

twiceboss said:


> would love to know how to use sonarworks too. From A-Z tutorial.
> 
> I tried before and it was fail


 
  
 Do you have Windows or Mac?


----------



## fjrabon

twiceboss said:


> would love to know how to use sonarworks too. From A-Z tutorial.
> 
> I tried before and it was fail


 


> "
> Personally, I use toslink for digital transport and have never used EQ with headphones, because I thought it sounded somewhat veiled and less than natural, which is always my goal with music.
> 
> But now you got me interested, Matt.  What is Sonarworks?"


 
  
  
 Sonarworks is essentially calibrated EQ.  Basically they measure a headphone (or more accurately 10, and average) and then use that profile.  They take this profile and create the mirror image EQ adjustment around the target frequency response you're after.  It was originially envisioned not for audiophiles, but rather people working in studios, since people in studios need a neutral reference point so that they can create consistent EQ, levels and mixes for their tracks.  At some point audiophiles found out about it, despite sonarworks never even initially thinking audiophiles might be interested in this studio software.  Now, you could have button click neutrality, instead of doing hours of painstaking sine wave sweeps.
  
 The other benefit to sonarworks is that it's just a good program and it has built in clipping control.  Because most people would push up the levels they wanted to boost, most people who tried to EQ were causing clipping.  Because of this distortion, they concluded that EQ "sounds bad"  Further, a lot of people were using junky EQ programs that did introduce a lot of artifacts.  Sonarworks, being designed for studio usage, uses true 32 bit DSP, and thus loses virtually no signal in the transition, especially if you use the linear setting.  
  
 not sure what your problems were with sonarworks were twiceboss.  I will say it's a relatively processor intensive program (as is any true 32 bit DSP that's working on high bit rate music).  Those clicks could have simply been your computer's processor struggling to keep up.  Hard to say without being there with you to see what's going on.  Sonarworks is too processor heavy to work on my old dell laptop, but runs great on my macbook pro.  THe clicks also could have been the program you were using to host the AAU plug in.


----------



## twiceboss

coltmrfire said:


> Do you have Windows or Mac?


 
  


fjrabon said:


> Sonarworks is essentially calibrated EQ.  Basically they measure a headphone (or more accurately 10, and average) and then use that profile.  They take this profile and create the mirror image EQ adjustment around the target frequency response you're after.  It was originially envisioned not for audiophiles, but rather people working in studios, since people in studios need a neutral reference point so that they can create consistent EQ, levels and mixes for their tracks.  At some point audiophiles found out about it, despite sonarworks never even initially thinking audiophiles might be interested in this studio software.  Now, you could have button click neutrality, instead of doing hours of painstaking sine wave sweeps.
> 
> The other benefit to sonarworks is that it's just a good program and it has built in clipping control.  Because most people would push up the levels they wanted to boost, most people who tried to EQ were causing clipping.  Because of this distortion, they concluded that EQ "sounds bad"  Further, a lot of people were using junky EQ programs that did introduce a lot of artifacts.  Sonarworks, being designed for studio usage, uses true 32 bit DSP, and thus loses virtually no signal in the transition, especially if you use the linear setting.
> 
> not sure what your problems were with sonarworks were twiceboss.  I will say it's a relatively processor intensive program (as is any true 32 bit DSP that's working on high bit rate music).  Those clicks could have simply been your computer's processor struggling to keep up.  Hard to say without being there with you to see what's going on.  Sonarworks is too processor heavy to work on my old dell laptop, but runs great on my macbook pro.  THe clicks also could have been the program you were using to host the AAU plug in.


 
 I have an i7 and 16gb of ram, it should be nothing wrong with it.
  
 What ive faced was tickling sound after I connect the input and output.


----------



## ColtMrFire

twiceboss said:


> I have an i7 and 16gb of ram, it should be nothing wrong with it.
> 
> What ive faced was tickling sound after I connect the input and output.


 
  
 I would get in touch with sonarworks and tell them the issue.... I imagine they'd be happy to help you resolve it.  It's definitely worth the effort, amazing program.
  
 Anyway, playing Jack Johnson and it's just overwhelming how good these friggin headphones are!  So smooth, detailed and layered... perfectly neutral (to my ears)... it's like an orgasmic experience!  The balanced cable definitely helps with this.


----------



## fjrabon

Here, the blue represents what they measure the HD800's frequency response as, in comparison to what a group of studio engineers has considered neutral.  The light blue area around it is considered the amount that a headphone will vary from model to model (although the HD800 actually varies less than most headphones, so theoretically this would be smaller for the HD800).  

 The red line is the target response curve.  This is what I set, just as an example.  It's a pretty standard "happy u" EQ curve.  Sonarworks then creates the green EQ curve and applies it to the file.  What results is the dark purple-ish curve.  If you notice the "after" curve didn't exactly match the target red curve.  That's because sonarworks also measures the headphone's power handling ability, and they create a limit (the yellow) where they believe that adjusting the EQ that much would result in unacceptable levels of distortion.  As you can see, this really only impacts the super low sub bass on the HD800.  And as you can see, it still adds quite a bit of bass, while staying completely audibly clean.  You can mess around with the target curves as well, and adjust how much the DSP mixes from the headphone's natural response to the target response (it was set at 100 here, meaning it tried to exactly match the target curve. 0 would mean that no EQ was applied.  50 means it's an even mix of the headphone's natural response and the target curve.  I usually set it at about 80, as I like a slight touch of the HD800's treble sizzle).  Avoid clipping lowers the output based on the biggest EQ peak it uses, so that it never gets any part of the spectrum into clipping territory.


----------



## twiceboss

is it night and day difference with sonarworks?


----------



## fjrabon

twiceboss said:


> I have an i7 and 16gb of ram, it should be nothing wrong with it.
> 
> What ive faced was tickling sound after I connect the input and output.


 

 that sounds like your plug in hosting program isn't so good.  But again, impossible for me to really diagnose without being there.


----------



## fjrabon

twiceboss said:


> is it night and day difference with sonarworks?


 

 yes, it's a pretty dramatic difference.  Better is hard to say, since that mostly depends on your preferences signature wise.  TO me, before sonarworks, the HD800 wouldn't have been a headphone I would have owned, as it was just too bright, and had too little bass for my personal tastes, even if I did recognize it's unparalleled technical abilities with soundstage, resolution and transient response.  Sonarworks 100% fixed the frequency response issues I had.  It's now, after sonarworks the most flawless headphone I've heard for my tastes.  That includes the Stax SR009 through a KGSSHV Carbon.

 The other piece for me was goodhertz canopener crossfeed.  It took that huge soundstage and made it huge AND startlingly realistic.


----------



## twiceboss

Nice! i would struggle to solve that after my final next two week! haha
  
  
 Oh yes btw, just bought 1MORE triple driver. What really for $85 this sounds DAMN INCREDIBLE! even with 1 mins impression!


----------



## MattTCG

twiceboss said:


> is it night and day difference with sonarworks?


 
  
 I never answer this question like this...but yes, it's night and day different. Ironically the hd800 is my go to headphone when I'm want to hear true audiophile bass. Funny huh? The headphone known to be thin and sterile has possibly the best sub bass I've heard. Linear bass, with extension and texture that other headphones try to produce but just can't. Yes, the bass on the hd800, with EQ, can punch like a thunder clap.


----------



## twiceboss

matttcg said:


> I never answer this question like this...but yes, it's night and day different. Ironically the hd800 is my go to headphone when I'm want to hear true audiophile bass. Funny huh? The headphone known to be thin and sterile has possibly the best sub bass I've heard. Linear bass, with extension and texture that other headphones try to produce but just can't. Yes, the bass on the hd800, with EQ, can punch like a thunder clap.


 
 Mother father... will solve my sonarworrks sooner haha! so excited for that!


----------



## ColtMrFire

twiceboss said:


> is it night and day difference with sonarworks?


 
  
 When I first tried it with the Senn HD558 (using the 598 curve - same drivers), the difference was actually hard to notice at first but quickly made itself VERY apparent.  It was all about subtle shifts of tone and added layers of detail that had previously been missing.  It was VERY much about tonality, it was much better and just sounded "correct", as if I'd been listening to headphones "wrong" all those years...  it was quickly very addicting, and I did not want to be without it.  
  
 Still listening to HD800, my God Frank Sinatra sounds DIVINE.


----------



## RCBinTN

Thanks all for the information on Sonarworks.  It is fascinating to me, may need to invest in this program.  I understand it can complement JRiver - anybody using that combination?  I also have a MacPro.
  
 Cheers,
 RCB


----------



## MattTCG

rcbintn said:


> Thanks all for the information on Sonarworks.  It is fascinating to me, may need to invest in this program.  I understand it can complement JRiver - anybody using that combination?  I also have a MacPro.
> 
> Cheers,
> RCB


 
  
 I'm using SW with jriver, but I'm Windows.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I finally got sonarworks back up and running, so I decided it was a good chance to try the HD800 plugin as well as A/B compare USB to Coax again, which I hadn't done since I switched (and even then it wasn't much of a comparison, since the difference was night/day obvious and I didn't do much comparing).
  
 I cued up some of the same tracks I had on CD and on USB stick.  
  
 While I really liked the HD800 plugin, great tonality and took some of the edge off/brought some of the mids up, the loss in resolution from going to USB from Coax was substantial and couldn't be tolerated for very long.  Especially when directly A/B'ing the same tracks.
  
 Now there are a few factors here.  I no longer have the USB regen, so can't do that comparison...just USB cable (a good one too) to the Mimby.  And I know the Regen was a very noticeable and welcome improvement to USB.  Two, this is just the Mimby, which measures much better through Coax than USB, so I am not writing off USB audio, just USB audio through my Mimby.  Coax simply destroys it.  USB is not bad through Mimby if you never hear Coax.
  
 I am also weary of computer audio because I realized that they are not very good for playing music, as they are noisy machines in terms of all the processing... adding the Regen showed just how noisy my computer was... there are ways to clean that stuff up, but I like the simplicity of CDs... pop one in, it just plays perfectly, no dirty PC audio to try and fix.
  
 I am curious though how USB sounds through Gumby/Yggy, since I plan on getting one in the future and I am ABSOLUTELY keeping the HD800, since it is the best thing since sliced bread!  There are some breakthroughs using AES computer audio to DACs that accept it, so computer audio is not dead to me at all... it's just for now with Mimby as the DAC, it is Coax/CD land for me...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Is optical any better than USB?


----------



## johnjen

Additional notes of merit about Sonarworks.
  
 For the HD800 and HD650 there are 2 compensation curves available.
 One (the original) has the very bottom end chopped off (see fjabon's post  http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/24165#post_13048235  ), while the other curve does not stop at 35Hz and reaches down to below 20Hz.
 From there you can more easily reach down to sub 10Hz using additional EQ.
  
 Also pay attention to the red 'led' clip indicators on both the input and output VU meter displays in the main SW window.
 SW does add a fair amount of low end boost, which can lead to digital clipping.
 If either clips (the 'led's' will stay 'on' until cleared) then you will need to address this condition, that is if you want to avoid clipping.
  
 JJ


----------



## johnjen

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Is optical any better than USB?


 
 In my experience in some cases yes, while in others no.
 It seems to be related to what is sending the data stream, as in a better quality optical source (DDC etc.) can elevate the SQ of toslink well above USB.
  
 I heard a test setup where we used 2 SPDIF feeds, a optical and coax from a SU-1 to feed a Gumby and to my surprise, based upon my previous experience using the same optical cable, the optical was *'Better'* than the coax.
  
 But in my rig a 'stock' USB data feed was bested by Toslink, until I added a WYRD and better USB cables, in which case the USB was clearly *'better'* than the optical.
  
 And these tests were using the Lifatec Toslink cable, which is a cut above any of the others I tried.
  
 JJ


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Yeah I mean my music collection is on my iMac/tidal, tying me pretty securely to USB or the mini optical out that the headphone jack doubles as. The assessment of Wyrd ranges from politely appreciative to enthusiastic, so it might be the next acquisition. 
  
 EDIT: Depending on the Manhattan Project.


----------



## johnjen

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Yeah I mean my music collection is on my iMac/tidal, tying me pretty securely to USB or the mini optical out that the headphone jack doubles as. The assessment of Wyrd ranges from politely appreciative to enthusiastic, so it might be the next acquisition.
> 
> EDIT: Depending on the Manhattan Project.


 
 Another option, albeit a more expensive one, is to use a Singxer SU-1 DDC which takes the USB and converts it to SPDIF and AES and I2S.
 This was the 'Better' DDC I mentioned in my previous post.
  
 And I wonder if it will be the Manhatten Proj or perhaps a super Wyrd that will be Schiit's DDC.
 And I doubt the super WYRD would need even more complicated programming than what they were already capable of, which tends to lead me to believe their DDC would be the Two WYRD…
  
 We'll see in due course.
  
 JJ


----------



## Thenewguy007

johnjen said:


> In my experience in some cases yes, while in others no.
> It seems to be related to what is sending the data stream, as in a better quality optical source (DDC etc.) can elevate the SQ of toslink well above USB.
> 
> I heard a test setup where we used 2 SPDIF feeds, a optical and coax from a SU-1 to feed a Gumby and to my surprise, based upon my previous experience using the same optical cable, the optical was *'Better'* than the coax.
> ...




What USB cables did you upgrade to?
I'm getting a Singxer SU-1 soon & will be using a AES cable, but still want a quality USB cable to be connected to the chain.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Okay, time for some criticism...
  
 And mind you, it's hard to review this headphone since you inevitably end up reviewing your entire chain, the HD800 being so bloody transparent...
  
 So far the HD800 is like the best meal you've ever tasted, that is slightly too dry... 
  
 It is not analytical or thin sounding at all, the balanced cabled helped with that immensely.  But there remains a noticeable dryness that is slightly distracting, or rather, something I have to get used to.
  
 I did not notice this when I demoed the HD800 with the Black Widow/Yggy... so I am assuming the Jotunheim and/or Mimby is contributing this element.  But since this is the setup I am currently "stuck" with, I have to make do.
  
 I am not getting rid of Mimby (probably the best price-performance ratio in all of audio at the moment), but I wonder if there are less dry sounding amps around the $400-$500 range that might add a little "juiciness" to the equation.  
  
 I have heard good things about the Liquid Carbon.  Anyone have that combo?


----------



## Sorrodje

Skip the Carbon if you want my honest opinion.  Buy a Vali 2 and save the money for a EC ZDS, A DNA Stratus or something in that league. if that kind of budget is not possible , maybe a Feliks Audio Elise would be a very nice choice.
  
 But don't invest more money before to be SURE your HD800 is a keeper. Trust me, I had some bad moments with my HD800 and it took me a lot of time, money and energy to bring it to the best to my ear. I almost sold it two times and I compared to almost every current totl headphones and the HD800 is still there. 
  
 I'm even selling my Utopia... and it's a damn fine headphone !


----------



## ColtMrFire

sorrodje said:


> Skip the Carbon if you want my honest opinion.  Buy a Vali 2 and save the money for a EC ZDS, A DNA Stratus or something in that league. if that kind of budget is not possible , maybe a Feliks Audio Elise would be a very nice choice.
> 
> But don't invest more money before to be SURE your HD800 is a keeper. Trust me, I had some bad moments with my HD800 and it took me a lot of time, money and energy to bring it to the best to my ear. I almost sold it two times and I compared to almost every current totl headphones and the HD800 is still there.
> 
> I'm even selling my Utopia... and it's a damn fine headphone !


 
  
 Interesting.  
  
 I like the HD800 because it seems like a raw talent performer you can build a system around.  Almost like an amazing prize fighter that is only as good as his training/environment.
  
 I may even use the Vali 2 as a tube buffer for the Jotunheim... I saw someone do that and they liked it.
  
 I tried the Utopia it was astoundingly good...


----------



## Sorrodje

coltmrfire said:


> I tried the Utopia it was astoundingly good...


 
  
 It is. No doubt.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> Okay, time for some criticism...
> 
> And mind you, it's hard to review this headphone since you inevitably end up reviewing your entire chain, the HD800 being so bloody transparent...
> 
> ...




If dry/brittle is a concern, the LC absolutely will NOT help with that. 

The feeling you describe is how I feel about the HD800 out of my Dragonfly Red. Tubes help and they don't need to be euphonic distorted or "warm" either. They just need to cut out some high order harmonics. This, combined with increased dynamic response was really the last piece of the puzzle the Torpedo III added. Mimby + TIII + HD800 is a heavenly combo (although most of the time I use iDAC6 with the TIII)


----------



## Me x3

coltmrfire said:


> Okay, time for some criticism...
> 
> And mind you, it's hard to review this headphone since you inevitably end up reviewing your entire chain, the HD800 being so bloody transparent...
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's not the rigs fault, we all know HD800 is a tad light in the bass and overly forward in the 6kHz region.
 It could sound better on a very specific setup as you've noted, but it's silly to blame a very neutral DAC/Amp combo when using a headphone that's well known for colouring the sound towards the dry/steely/clinical side.
  
 I'm pretty sure you'll get used to its sounds signature up to some extent. Picking matching recordings is always a good practice in my experience.


----------



## johnjen

coltmrfire said:


> Okay, time for some criticism...
> 
> And mind you, it's hard to review this headphone since you inevitably end up reviewing your entire chain, the HD800 being so bloody transparent...
> 
> ...


 
 Where you state "you inevitably end up reviewing your entire chain, the HD800 being so bloody transparent..."
 This is where you should aim.
  
 And one way to 'get there' or at least help dial it in is, compensating with EQ.
 Yeah I know it means USB for you, which is a step backwards, but until you can come up with another data path this may give you a chance to dial in the 'dryness' and experiment with finding what EQ settings work for you.
 This knowledge will also come in handy when you do achieve a 'better' digital audio path to your dac, since this aspect of your system will already have taken a step up.
  
 Of course this presupposes that pursuing what 800's can deliver, is your aim.
  
 And yeah there are a whole bunch of options in front of you, including leaving well enough alone.
  
 But I gotta say, that 800's can scale like a mutha…
  
 And that, for me, is the best 'endorsement' I can give any piece of gear.
  
 Oh and, sorry about your wallet…
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 JJ


----------



## johnjen

thenewguy007 said:


> What USB cables did you upgrade to?
> I'm getting a Singxer SU-1 soon & will be using a AES cable, but still want a quality USB cable to be connected to the chain.


 
 I was already using a AudioQuest Coffee.
 And I added a Schiit PYST and a cheap $9 6" stubby cable.
 The trick was in cooking them.
  
 And I've got say that PYST for $20 is a steal.
 It ticks off all the right check boxes…
 ( √ ) silver cladded wire
 ( √ ) oversize power wires
 ( √ ) data and power separated
  
 JJ


----------



## MattTCG

+1 on jj's advice. EQ should be your perfect (and free for you) stop gap until you are ready to spend money on a better amp and or DAC. I have the Jot and just can't make it work without EQ. @ColtMrFire could you describe exactly why usb over mimby sounds so "bad." That might help us get to the bottom of this.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Thanks for all the support.

Hmmm... I think im going to get sorrodje to send his SDR mod and see if that helps any.

I do hear some steeliness in the treble, mostly on sibilant tracks, and can see how that may be masking the mids a bit, because I do hear a slight recessed quality in the upper mids.

This is tricky b/c I dont have money to throw around for new gear (I am in debt), so I would need to be sure Jotunheim is contributing to the dryness.

I will wait to see what the SDR mod does because I am trying to avoid USB at all costs with the Mimby.


----------



## ColtMrFire

matttcg said:


> +1 on jj's advice. EQ should be your perfect (and free for you) stop gap until you are ready to spend money on a better amp and or DAC. I have the Jot and just can't make it work without EQ. @ColtMrFire
> could you describe exactly why usb over mimby sounds so "bad." That might help us get to the bottom of this.




Just less depth, detail, resolution. Sounds more "muffled" relatively speaking.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Another reason im looking at the LC is bc it has balanced output and i have a balanced cable. Vali 2 doesnt. Does the Carbon compare SQ wise to Jot (or Vali 2)?


----------



## MattTCG

coltmrfire said:


> Another reason im looking at the LC is bc it has balanced output and i have a balanced cable. Vali 2 doesnt. Does the Carbon compare SQ wise to Jot (or Vali 2)?


 
  
 The LC is no better solution for the hd800 than the Jot IMO. For the money the Vali 2 with a decent tube may be your best bet. Possibly a used Valhalla 2 would also fit your bill, not as "wet" sounding as the vali 2 though.


----------



## Me x3

coltmrfire said:


> I do hear some *steeliness in the treble*, mostly on sibilant tracks, and can see how that may be masking the mids a bit, because I do hear a slight *recessed quality in the upper mids*.


 

 SDR should help with the steeliness (6kHz peak)


----------



## Sorrodje

SDR helps to tame the 6khz peak . then the masking effect of the peak is less strong hence the fact mids/hig mids sound less recessed. IMO, IME, YMMV.


----------



## MattTCG

SDR is the real deal. It's a very inexpensive way to make the hd800 more musical and enjoyable.


----------



## ColtMrFire

That seals it then. Sorrodje, i will message you shortly.


----------



## Sorrodje

Shortcoming is maybe the Sonarwork prebuilt EQ settings won't be as appropriate anymore ? in case, you'll need to use a parametric EQ and do the job yourself.
  
 Another point for people interested in SDR:
  
 I sold three pairs to a professional studio a few days ago. they told me they finely "tuned" the SDR with very fine adjustement of the fit. they did it by ears and after that they used a Spectrum analyzer in order to be sure the two channels had exactly the same tuning.
  
 Fit matters. Take care of how you put the SDR in your HD800, check my instructions and video to do it properly


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

This thread is at its best when it's initiating new HD800 owners. It's like a mini christmas.


----------



## thefitz

matttcg said:


> SDR is the real deal. It's a very inexpensive way to make the hd800 more musical and enjoyable.


 

 I see absolutely no downside.


----------



## fjrabon

thefitz said:


> I see absolutely no downside.


 

 yeah, it's a great product/mod.  as Sorrodje mentioned, the only possible downsides are if you're using a stock calibrated EQ setting (a la sonarworks) or you aren't careful with the fit.  But for people going straight out of a DAC and amp, it's great.  I like the controllability of sonarworks, otherwise I would absolutely have a SDR in my HD800.  Also, I think it completely does away with any need to "upgrade" to a HD800S.


----------



## thefitz

fjrabon said:


> yeah, it's a great product/mod.  as Sorrodje mentioned, the only possible downsides are if you're using a stock calibrated EQ setting (a la sonarworks) or you aren't careful with the fit.


 
 Have we been able to describe the hallmarks of an imperfect fit? How can we tell?


----------



## ColtMrFire

Back from work and doing some more listening.
  
 I'm amazed that pop/electronic sounds so amazing, even unmodded through a SS amp.  The T90s made pop/electronic virtually unlistenable.  Not only is it listenable on the HD800, it is revealing previously hidden layers to the music.
  
 And GOD they are so comfortable.  I am not used to having nothing touching my ears!  The cups are so ridiculously roomy.  They make the HD6XX feel positively claustrophobic in comparison.
  
 I removed the dust covers to see what effect it would have.  It sounds ever so slightly more clear (especially the upper mids), but seems to lose a slight bit of the holographic feel of the soundstage.  I am debating whether to keep them in or not.


----------



## Sorrodje

thefitz said:


> Have we been able to describe the hallmarks of an imperfect fit? How can we tell?


 
  
 The creatology ring ( with the little hole) must be flush to the top of the hole and the closed side of the resonator fully at the bottom of the hole. Then the SDR is fully stretched in the HD800 hole.  Wrong fit is when the resonator is squeashed in the hole. In that case it behaves like any damping material and not as a resonator. 
  
 That's it.


----------



## thefitz

sorrodje said:


> The creatology ring ( with the little hole) must be flush to the top of the hole and the closed side of the resonator fully at the bottom of the hole. Then the SDR is fully stretched in the HD800 hole.  Wrong fit is when the resonator is squeashed in the hole. In that case it behaves like any damping material and not as a resonator.
> 
> That's it.


 

 Indeed, but how is an incorrectly set resonator audibly noticeable? For example, maybe it looks right but wasn't set right. How can we tell?


----------



## thefitz

Also, have you ever considered a resonator for that poor, poor, poor sack of crap HD700?


----------



## Sorrodje

Honestly , i didn't experiment bad and good fit to tell you how is the difference. measurements show us the good fit is the best. that's all.  
  
 Moreover, I'm not that much into headphone mods. I did that for the HD800 because it's my favorite headphones and the one I use daily.


----------



## Thenewguy007

matttcg said:


> The LC is no better solution for the hd800 than the Jot IMO. For the money the Vali 2 with a decent tube may be your best bet. Possibly a used Valhalla 2 would also fit your bill, not as "wet" sounding as the vali 2 though.




Or better yet a Bottlehead Crack.Seen a few in the classifieds & they are priced around the Jotunheim price.

A tube amp will definitely help with adding more wet & lush sound.


----------



## ColtMrFire

They are starting to sound a bit less dry to me now... probably brain burn in, but I am just loving them more and more all the time.  So much layered goodness and holographic euphony.  Raidohead never sounded better.  Everything I play just sounds 10 times better than it ever has.  This is how music should sound.  Now just need a Gumby or Yggy and I am THERE.


----------



## MattTCG

thenewguy007 said:


> Or better yet a Bottlehead Crack.Seen a few in the classifieds & they are priced around the Jotunheim price.
> 
> A tube amp will definitely help with adding more wet & lush sound.


 
  
 +1 on the Crack suggestion!


coltmrfire said:


> They are starting to sound a bit less dry to me now... probably brain burn in, but I am just loving them more and more all the time.  So much layered goodness and holographic euphony.  Raidohead never sounded better.  Everything I play just sounds 10 times better than it ever has.  This is how music should sound.  Now just need a Gumby or Yggy and I am THERE.


 
  
 The new Radiohead album on the hd800 is stunning.


----------



## JaZZ

In fact all *Radiohead* songs sound stunning on the HD 800. (Big Radiohead fan here.)


----------



## ColtMrFire

So far I have only listened to Amnesiac.  I never liked the way it sounded in terms of mastering, kind of muffled and closed in.  It now sounds spacious and layered, airy.  Just amazing.  Anything vocals/acoustic sounds divine... listening to Harry Connick Jr., damn!  With vocals you can hear more weight, throatiness and saliva... almost hear them spitting on the microphone.  Mimby helps bring out all these stunning details.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> So far I have only listened to Amnesiac.  I never liked the way it sounded in terms of mastering, kind of muffled and closed in.  It now sounds spacious and layered, airy.  Just amazing.  Anything vocals/acoustic sounds divine... listening to Harry Connick Jr., damn!  With vocals you can hear more weight, throatiness and saliva... almost hear them spitting on the microphone.  Mimby helps bring out all these stunning details.




Made it all the way through OK Computer and Kid A on the HD800 today/this evening. Those albums sound like they were made for this headphone


----------



## johnjen

My 2¢
 Quote:


coltmrfire said:


> So far I have only listened to Amnesiac.  I never liked the way it sounded in terms of mastering, kind of muffled and closed in.  It now sounds spacious and layered, airy.  Just amazing.  Anything vocals/acoustic sounds divine... listening to Harry Connick Jr., damn!  With vocals you can hear more weight, throatiness and saliva... almost hear them spitting on the microphone.  Mimby helps bring out all these stunning details.


 
 Give you and your system more time together, let things settle down and the SQ should reach a peak after a while.
  
 Then, you'll have a much better idea of what, (if anything) to do next.
  
 JJ


----------



## ColtMrFire

fjrabon said:


> Made it all the way through OK Computer and Kid A on the HD800 today/this evening. Those albums sound like they were made for this headphone


 
  
 I will probably listen to those today.
  
 I did not like A Moon Shaped Pool for some reason... I listened a couple times when it came out but it never grabbed me like their previous albums immediately did,  I will give it another shot with the 800... it does sound like an album made for this headphone.


----------



## ColtMrFire

johnjen said:


> Give you and your system more time together, let things settle down and the SQ should reach a peak after a while.
> 
> Then, you'll have a much better idea of what, (if anything) to do next.
> 
> JJ


 
  
 I did not mention this before, but something happened after I did the A/B usb/coax comparison...
  
 I switched the Mimby back and forth between usb and coax with the button the front.  After being disappointed with USB, I unhooked the cable, and switched it back to coax for more enjoyment/listening.
  
 For some reason, the sound seemed a bit more airy.  Especially on classical, it seemed I could hear deeper into the soundstage... everything sounded SLIGHTLY less claustrophobic, not that I would have described it as claustrophobic at all, but everything seemed to open up a bit more.
  
 At first I thought I was completely crazy.  How could it sound different?  I thought maybe the Mimby cycling through the inputs and resetting into coax might have unclogged a bit of stagnation, since I've not turned it off or switched in a long time, but that's just wild conjecture not based on any knowledge of DACs.
  
 I figured maybe even turning it off and on might do some good, so I did.  After that is when it started to sound slightly dry/brittle (hence my comment about that a couple pages back)... and now that seems to have gone away and everything is completely smooth, airy and the soundstage is very wide and very deep.
  
 Again, just wild conjecture on my part, and it could be some weird placebo thing, or maybe something happened with Mimby in terms of resetting.  The point is, I am definitely settling into the sound more and enjoying it more and more... I think the Mimby/Jot combo works very very well with this headphone barring some occasional steeliness in the treble that I hope sorrodje's SDR mod will fix.
  
 I am continually amazed at what Sennheiser has achieved with this headphone.  It is worth the hype and then some.  People who call it anemic, sterile, un-musical, bass light are just nuts... or have crappy systems.  I can't imagine why anyone would sell such an amazing headphone, that obviously scales with every minute change to your system (as evidenced by the DAC resetting issue, if I'm not crazy).  There isn't a single genre so far that it hasn't excelled at... pop music no longer sounds garbage, electronic is fast and controlled and bassy, acoustic/classical/jazz is revelatory. The imagining is so precise it sometimes sounds like instruments and voices are right near you.  I can only imagine what a better DAC like Gumby or Yggy would bring to this headphone since it already sounds drop dead amazing with Mimby.
  
 Any sane person would call it a day and claim end game for the system I have, but we're all crazy and want that last 10% of performance, which does make a substantial difference.


----------



## mysticstryk

I never complained about a lack of bass in the 800, always felt it was pretty good with a decent amount of slam.  Just started using the Sonarworks trial.  These things really have some slam now, and that sub bass.  Listening to some downtempo electronic and it's almost too much bass!  What setting is everyone using themselves?  I just have it set to flat, been adjusting the dry/wet setting around trying to find a good sweet spot.  I do have the SDR mod installed so I'm trying to compensate a bit for that.  At this rate, I may move on from the 650 as my reference headphone.


----------



## MattTCG

Mystic... The problem is likely the sdr mod. It's not used when they take measurements. Just move over to the next tab with tilt and adjust the bass down a bit. Minus 2 or 3 should be pretty close.


----------



## mysticstryk

matttcg said:


> Mystic... The problem is likely the sdr mod. It's not used when they take measurements. Just move over to the next tab with tilt and adjust the bass down a bit. Minus 2 or 3 should be pretty close.


 
  
 Thanks Matt, that helped.  Still doing little adjustments trying to find the right spot.  -2 on the tilt seems to be the best so far.  You still using the plugin with your 800?  Have any advice on dry/wet level?


----------



## MattTCG

I'm at 100% wet. Be sure that under advanced you have it set to linear. Going from memory here. But pretty sure thats it.


----------



## mysticstryk

matttcg said:


> I'm at 100% wet. Be sure that under advanced you have it set to linear. Going from memory here. But pretty sure thats it.


 
  
 Set it all the way over to linear, not sure what it did though, changes are not immediately noticeable.  Looks like it smoothed out the FR.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Since the 800 picks up any flaws in your system, I decided to clean all my interconnects (rca cables and coax cable), just simple isopropyl alcohol and q-tips (stripping most of the fabric from the tip so it will fit inside the interconnects).  I cleaned each interconnect twice, swirling the q-tip around a few times inside.  I also cleaned the inside and pins of the XLR cable (which was very dirty).
  
 It made a noticeable improvement.  Not night/day, just a slight clarity increase.  Just sounds cleaner overall, like a dirty window into the music needed cleaning.


----------



## Sorrodje

Nice case of autosuggestion


----------



## fjrabon

I'm sort of thinking about sending my HD800 in for individual calibration, just to see the difference having it done with my own HD800 would make (s opposed to the average of 10 HD800s).  If I do that, another consideration is having the calibration done with the SDR mod in.  This would allow me to have the natural balance of the SDR mod when I'm not able to use sonarworks (source other than my laptop) but still get the benefit of sonarworks.  Anybody done this?


----------



## Rozenberg

Eh but cleaning does make you feel better.


----------



## ColtMrFire

sorrodje said:


> Nice case of autosuggestion


 
  
 Yes, placebo is a real thing in audio.  One of the tricks is to know yourself well enough to know when you could be suffering from it.  I've had enough experience with placebo to know the difference pretty well.  Usually placebo with me is more vague... I will going back and forth wondering if I'm imagining it.  And even then it may not be placebo.  When the difference is real, it tends to be unquestionable, I don't go back and forth wondering, I just know because it is so obvious.
  
 At any rate, it matters little since there is no truth beyond measurable data in audio.  If you can't measure a change, it shouldn't exist, but we all know it is more complicated than that.


----------



## MattTCG

fjrabon said:


> I'm sort of thinking about sending my HD800 in for individual calibration, just to see the difference having it done with my own HD800 would make (s opposed to the average of 10 HD800s).  If I do that, another consideration is having the calibration done with the SDR mod in.  This would allow me to have the natural balance of the SDR mod when I'm not able to use sonarworks (source other than my laptop) but still get the benefit of sonarworks.  Anybody done this?


 

 I would have already done it but the shipping cost to Latvia is pretty steep. Let me know if you want to send a box with multiple headphones and share the shipping cost.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

If anyone is considering hardwiring their HD800's...  Here's how.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Man, poor recordings sound absolutely abysmal...
  
 Even stuff I thought was well mastered using my T90s (which are very revealing), turn out to have flaws I previously could not hear.  Such as Duke Ellington's 'Blues in Orbit'... always thought it sounded amazing, and it does, but it is not perfectly mic'd and you can hear it now.  It makes enjoying it a little harder now.
  
 The gap between listenable and unlistenable shrinks even further...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 The upside is well mastered stuff I thought sounded great on the T90s sound exponentially better, like Frank Sinatra's 2 Disc 'Best Of'.  I am still rediscovering my music collection and it is full of surprises.  
  
 The HD800 is totally unforgiving, really puts a microscope on the entire mastering process.  And anything less than perfect will be shoved in your face.  I may have to start doing some serious detective work to track down the best masters of recordings now...


----------



## MattTCG

coltmrfire said:


> Man, poor recordings sound absolutely abysmal...
> 
> Even stuff I thought was well mastered using my T90s (which are very revealing), turn out to have flaws I previously could not hear.  Such as Duke Ellington's 'Blues in Orbit'... always thought it sounded amazing, and it does, but it is not perfectly mic'd and you can hear it now.  It makes enjoying it a little harder now.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is pretty much right on the mark. The hd800 is a truth teller, for better or worse. Just depends on whether or not you want to hear the truth. 
  
 I find it's best to keep another more forgiving option around to listen to lesser recorded material.


----------



## Hansotek

If anyone is looking for a decently-priced amp for the HD800, I just noticed the Arist Audio Heron 5 is on MassDrop for the lowest price I've ever seen it: $699 and to drops to $599 if they sell five.

I heard this one at CanJam SoCal, and it is pretty impressive with the HD800. Spacious, smooth and well controlled. A good piece for sure. At either price it's a steal. 

Only 8 hours left on the drop, but that price is very nice for the performance level. Cheers!


----------



## FLTWS

coltmrfire said:


> Man, poor recordings sound absolutely abysmal...
> 
> ...


 
  
 And that's why I have several different headphones, one size will never fit all. My position; source material is the weakest link in my chain with few exceptions and unfortunately it comes at the front end. The second weakest is always the transducer.


----------



## MattTCG

hansotek said:


> If anyone is looking for a decently-priced amp for the HD800, I just noticed the Arist Audio Heron 5 is on MassDrop for the lowest price I've ever seen it: $699 and to drops to $599 if they sell five.
> 
> I heard this one at CanJam SoCal, and it is pretty impressive with the HD800. Spacious, smooth and well controlled. A good piece for sure. At either price it's a steal.
> 
> Only 8 hours left on the drop, but that price is very nice for the performance level. Cheers!


 
  +1 I'm actually tempted after hearing it at a meet.


----------



## ColtMrFire

My poor T90, sitting in the corner feeling neglected.  I've barely looked at it since I got the 800.  Probably going to sell it and put the money toward the Gumby.


----------



## MattTCG

coltmrfire said:


> My poor T90, sitting in the corner feeling neglected.  I've barely looked at it since I got the 800.  Probably going to sell it and put the money toward the Gumby.


 
  
 That would be a good call. I love my Gumby   The warmer tone plays better to the hd800 than yggy for my preferences.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Yes I hear Gumby is warm, with Bimby being warmer still.  Mimby is the most neutral of the Schiit multibit DACs.  I got to demo Yggy through my Jotunheim and it was definitely warmer than my Mimby by a good amount.  Warmer and more dramatic/flamboyant, more resolution, slam, depth, etc... differences were subtle though which is amazing considering the $2K price difference between the two.  Mimby is a game changer.  
  
 Still, if I had the money I would spring for Yggy no question and be done with DACs.  But Gumby is more affordable.  I would love to demo it.


----------



## MattTCG

I just took an hour or so to go through some of my favorite blues albums. On tap tonight...John Lee Hooker "Hooker n Heat." And then one of my all time favorites Muddy Waters "Folk Singer." 
  
 Hooker n Heat is a real toe tapper. I can't stop from the head waggle when listening to this one. John Lee can just groove his @ss off and this live performance is laid open with the 800 to enjoy every morsel. It's not the best recording and sometimes even a little rough, but the engagement factor is off the charts. 
  
 And then there is Folk Singer. I have listened to this album in it's many iterations and remasters for many, many years. It is, IMO, one of the finest recordings of all time. If the blues genre ever had it's perfect day, this has to be it. The quality of the recording is so good it's spooky when listening with the hd800. You feel as if you've snuck in the back door of the recording booth and that you're there as Muddy is laying down the tracks. The minutiae of fine detail that resonate from that man's guitar is other worldly. The room that this album was recorded in was not cavernous by any means. But you can make out the stage with wonderful clarity. 
  
 Folk Singer on the hd800 with good upstream gear is breathtaking in it's reproduced form. And cathartic for the audiophile who chases the unobtainable promised land in this hobby.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

matttcg said:


> I just took an hour or so to go through some of my favorite blues albums. On tap tonight...John Lee Hooker "Hooker n Heat." And then one of my all time favorites Muddy Waters "Folk Singer."
> 
> Hooker n Heat is a real toe tapper. I can't stop from the head waggle when listening to this one. John Lee can just groove his @ss off and this live performance is laid open with the 800 to enjoy every morsel. It's not the best recording and sometimes even a little rough, but the engagement factor is off the charts.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I tip my hat to your taste in blues.  Some of the best right there!


----------



## fjrabon

matttcg said:


> I just took an hour or so to go through some of my favorite blues albums. On tap tonight...John Lee Hooker "Hooker n Heat." And then one of my all time favorites Muddy Waters "Folk Singer."
> 
> Hooker n Heat is a real toe tapper. I can't stop from the head waggle when listening to this one. John Lee can just groove his @ss off and this live performance is laid open with the 800 to enjoy every morsel. It's not the best recording and sometimes even a little rough, but the engagement factor is off the charts.
> 
> ...




This thread has been so bizarre lately. Yesterday I read mrcoltfire's post about Radiohead right as I'm listening to Kid A. Today I read Matt's post about Folk Singer right as I'm listening to it. Great album to point out details with the HD800. Hearing muddy's metal slide grind against the strings independent of the actual note being played is fun. And get that kick pedal some WD40, lol. You can also hear muddy's fingertips snap off the string when he played in that album. There's a couple of places where the ribbon mic distorts, but luckily ribbon mic distortion is euphonic most of the time.


----------



## MattTCG

fjrabon said:


> This thread has been so bizarre lately. Yesterday I read mrcoltfire's post about Radiohead right as I'm listening to Kid A. Today I read Matt's post about Folk Singer right as I'm listening to it. Great album to point out details with the HD800. Hearing muddy's metal slide grind against the strings independent of the actual note being played is fun. And get that kick pedal some WD40, lol. You can also hear muddy's fingertips snap off the string when he played in that album. There's a couple of places where the ribbon mic distorts, but luckily ribbon mic distortion is euphonic most of the time.


 






 
 Enjoying music like this with great gear is what the hobby is all about for me.


----------



## Sorrodje

matttcg said:


> Enjoying music like this with great gear is what the hobby is all about for me.




Amen.


----------



## johnjen

Quote:


coltmrfire said:


> Man, poor recordings sound absolutely abysmal...
> 
> Even stuff I thought was well mastered using my T90s (which are very revealing), turn out to have flaws I previously could not hear.  Such as Duke Ellington's 'Blues in Orbit'... always thought it sounded amazing, and it does, but it is not perfectly mic'd and you can hear it now.  It makes enjoying it a little harder now.
> 
> ...


 
 If you continue to pursue the scalability of the 800's, even poorly recorded music can come to life.
  
 And it's not just a matter of being unforgiving but they are quite precise in presenting the signal fed them.
 Folks tend to blame the 800's for the faults they hear, which really means they were hearing the limitations of their front ends and the few 800 quirks added on top.
  
 Many have spent the time and made the effort to dial their system in to 'properly' feed them, and the results are most gratifying.
  
 Lastly, give your setup more time for it and you to settle down.
  
 It may take a few weeks…
  
 JJ


----------



## fjrabon

johnjen said:


> Quote:
> If you continue to pursue the scalability of the 800's, even poorly recorded music can come to life.
> 
> And it's not just a matter of being unforgiving but they are quite precise in presenting the signal fed them.
> ...




Agree. Once I really dialed my system in, the HD800 sounded great on something mastered as poorly as Oasis Be Here Now. You can obviously hear that it was brick walled but it isn't grating either.


----------



## Sorrodje

Same here. I reached a point where bad recorded music is still enjoyable... fortunately for me and all electronic music I love.


----------



## ColtMrFire

There's brickwalled stuff (which still sounds great) and older material/bad tape masters etc. This especially applies to some older classical where the master tapes are clearly deteriorated and simply need restoring.


----------



## mysticstryk

I think sonarworks has finally done that for me in addition to the right gear, made most of my collection sound great. Still, atrocious recordings of old black metal bands will always sound terrible, no matter what kind of headphone one uses.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> There's brickwalled stuff (which still sounds great) and older material/bad tape masters etc. This especially applies to some older classical where the master tapes are clearly deteriorated and simply need restoring.




Ah ok, I was thinking you meant the old refrain of "the HD800 isn't good for pop, rock and metal."


----------



## ColtMrFire

No, brickwalled pop sounds better than ever!  The 800 has an amazing ability to peel away layers to give you a deeper presentation, the soul of the recording.  Which is why I think people who call this a "soulless" headphone are crazy.
  
 Starting the morning off with Carreras, Domingo, Pavarotti 'the three tenors in concert' and it is just like being there.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

coltmrfire said:


> No, brickwalled pop sounds better than ever!  The 800 has an amazing ability to peel away layers to give you a deeper presentation, the soul of the recording.  Which is why I think people who call this a "soulless" headphone are crazy.
> 
> Starting the morning off with Carreras, Domingo, Pavarotti 'the three tenors in concert' and it is just like being there.


 
  
 If you can get your hands on a copy of the 1997 DVD of them in LA, it is an experience that will not disappoint!


----------



## thefitz

Tried my Jotunheim with an SD800 and CH800S cable - it's much brighter than the Lyr was (with LISST). Need to spend some more time with it.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Jotunheim doesn't really have a character of its own, so the DAC will be very important.  Stoddard said it's Schiit's most characterless amp and he's right.  It's very much a "wire with gain:"  Thank God I've got the Mimby with it, which pairs beautifully with the HD800.  I Found Jot even more transparent than Ragnarok when I compared the two (with Yggy as the DAC).


----------



## ColtMrFire

How can such realistic amazing sounds come from plastic???
  
 PJ Harvey never sounded so good.
  
 Now listening...


----------



## thefitz

coltmrfire said:


> Jotunheim doesn't really have a character of its own, so the DAC will be very important.  Stoddard said it's Schiit's most characterless amp and he's right.  It's very much a "wire with gain:"  Thank God I've got the Mimby with it, which pairs beautifully with the HD800.  I Found Jot even more transparent than Ragnarok when I compared the two (with Yggy as the DAC).


 

 Yeah, I'm using the same Bifrost I was with my Lyr. Kicking the tires on a multibit upgrade.


----------



## RCBinTN

coltmrfire said:


> Yes I hear Gumby is warm, with Bimby being warmer still.  Mimby is the most neutral of the Schiit multibit DACs.  I got to demo Yggy through my Jotunheim and it was definitely warmer than my Mimby by a good amount.  Warmer and more dramatic/flamboyant, more resolution, slam, depth, etc... differences were subtle though which is amazing considering the $2K price difference between the two.  Mimby is a game changer.
> 
> Still, if I had the money I would spring for Yggy no question and be done with DACs.  But Gumby is more affordable.  I would love to demo it.


 
  
 When I upgraded my Gungnir to the Gumby (best $500 that I've spent) it brought the HD800 alive.  No other changes to the rig.  Made the HD800 work even with rock music - suddenly, the bass was there and deep and resolving.  Highly recommended!


----------



## ColtMrFire

I've done alot reading on Gumby and it definitely has a stellar reputation, even being very close to Yggy, with some people even preferring Gumby (supposed to be more euphonic).


----------



## 13713

I have had my 800 for just over a year now I absolutely love it. The V281 and 800 are phenomenal. I am glad there is still love for the 800. I tried the S but I still prefer the 800 over the newer model.


----------



## RCBinTN

matttcg said:


> I just took an hour or so to go through some of my favorite blues albums. On tap tonight...John Lee Hooker "Hooker n Heat." And then one of my all time favorites Muddy Waters "Folk Singer."
> 
> Hooker n Heat is a real toe tapper. I can't stop from the head waggle when listening to this one. John Lee can just groove his @ss off and this live performance is laid open with the 800 to enjoy every morsel. It's not the best recording and sometimes even a little rough, but the engagement factor is off the charts.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Matt - is your "Folk Singer" a redbook or a remaster?


----------



## MattTCG

rcbintn said:


> Matt - is your "Folk Singer" a redbook or a remaster?


 
  
 I have many versions. But my favorite is the 1993 remaster by MFSL.


----------



## RCBinTN

matttcg said:


> I have many versions. But my favorite is the 1993 remaster by MFSL.


 
  
 Thanks my friend.


----------



## RCBinTN

matttcg said:


> I have many versions. But my favorite is the 1993 remaster by MFSL.


 
  
 I found it on Amazon.  $165 for the new CD.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ pm sent...


----------



## 13713

rcbintn said:


> I found it on Amazon.  $165 for the new CD.




I did as well. I might go used.


----------



## ColtMrFire

$165 for a CD??!!


----------



## cute

You can give this a try, a good source that I use.
  
http://www.prostudiomasters.com/search?q=muddy+waters#x


----------



## twiceboss

what cans that can beat HD800 mids? just wondering


----------



## Rozenberg

twiceboss said:


> what cans that can beat HD800 mids? just wondering




mids only? IMO Stax, even the entry level Lambdas would do the job.


----------



## MattTCG

rozenberg said:


> mids only? IMO Stax, even the entry level Lambdas would do the job.


 
  
 Stax are the best at transparency. So yeah, I'd agree with this.


----------



## twiceboss

rozenberg said:


> mids only? IMO Stax, even the entry level Lambdas would do the job.


 
 So, what makes HD800 is better for you?


----------



## Rozenberg

twiceboss said:


> So, what makes HD800 is better for you?




comfort, soundstage, detail retrieval, air and pretty much more transportable because not terminated in 5 pins jack that can't be used elsewhere.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Wow more detail retrieval? I listened to SR009 out of BHSE for several hours at the SF meet and it really killed it on detail retrieval. Even K1000 I sometimes think gives me more detail—though the rattle—I know.


----------



## MacedonianHero

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Wow more detail retrieval? I listened to SR009 out of BHSE for several hours at the SF meet and it really killed it on detail retrieval. Even K1000 I sometimes think gives me more detail—though the rattle—I know.


 
 I owned the HD800s for about 6+ years and now own the HD800S and think the world of them. They are still very unique, but with "detail retrieval" while back in the day they were the standard, they have been usurped by the SR-009 & Utopia (and a few others). But that said, they (HD800/HD800S) still stand out as "reference level headphones" in my book.


----------



## nvfan

macedonianhero said:


> I owned the HD800s for about 6+ years and now own the HD800S and think the world of them. They are still very unique, but with "detail retrieval" while back in the day they were the standard, they have been usurped by the SR-009 & Utopia (and a few others). But that said, they (HD800/HD800S) still stand out as "reference level headphones" in my book.


 
  
 More detail in the mids yes (since it's a more mid-forward headphone), but in treble heavy songs like Asian pop songs the HD800/S is more detailed. It's simply a matter of frequency response. Both have extremely low distortion, but the HD800 is simply a brighter headphone, whereas the Utopia follows the traditional loudspeaker NRC/Harman based curve with comparatively rolled off highs.


----------



## Rozenberg

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Wow more detail retrieval? I listened to SR009 out of BHSE for several hours at the SF meet and it really killed it on detail retrieval. Even K1000 I sometimes think gives me more detail—though the rattle—I know.


 
 Which is the reason why I put detail retrieval at the 3rd in the order. Unfortunately the highest Stax I've ever owned was the 007MK2 thus I kinda made the generalization based on my experience with owning Staxen. Of course I've heard the 009 several times as well but it wasn't enough for me to make a valid comparison since the environment was completely different.
  
 I also keep wondering if something can reveal more details than the HD800 system I currently own, but a brief demo of 009 or Utopia did not really tell anything. Spending money on either of them would be hard on my life so I guess gotta be satisfied with what I have.


----------



## ColtMrFire

When I demoed Utopia it was amazing, but not worth $4K. The soundstage wasnt that impressive (relative to the 800). I found it had a specific tonality that was unique.


----------



## MacedonianHero

alcoholbob said:


> More detail in the mids yes (since it's a more mid-forward headphone), but in treble heavy songs like Asian pop songs the HD800/S is more detailed. It's simply a matter of frequency response. Both have extremely low distortion, but the HD800 is simply a brighter headphone, whereas the Utopia follows the traditional loudspeaker NRC/Harman based curve with comparatively rolled off highs.


 
  
 I agree the HD800 is a brighter headphone, thus my preference for the HD800S.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

*Sennheiser HD800 vs. AKG K1000 (bass light)*

  
 Fourth Installment - *Chamber*
  
_Note: this is an ongoing series of posts comparing classical music as rendered by the old champ (K1000) versus the reigning champion (HD800). Opinions are strictly my own, and reflect my personal taste, biases, preferences, what I had for lunch, etc. For previous installments, see prologue, solo keyboard, and opera._
  
 So I’ve let this go for a couple months now, partly because I just started teaching (middle school lol), partly because I listen to less chamber music—and am less confident in my ability to listen to chamber music—than opera. Chamber music is also just much more diverse than other genres, so the following impressions are necessarily less comprehensive than my survey of solo keyboard or opera.
  
 I will in the interest of transparency begin with my general conclusions and follow them with my specific listening impressions. The An Die Ferne and Oboe Quartet impressions were made some months ago.
  
*The Swivel*
 There are no rules about how wide to open K1000. However, I find that closed, it requires less power and retains more bass. For chamber, I leave it open just wide enough not to touch my ears (perhaps 25%).
  
*LISST (Mjolnir 2 digression)*
 Bass extension has always been a K1000 complaint. I think LISST has gotten a bad rap, but solid state definitely goes further in the low end than tubes, and whatever claimed ‘taming’ of high end tubes offer, I think this makes it a worthy option to look at when pairing it with K1000. I used LISST only for the Schubert and Schumann, but the results were excellent on both headphones, so shoutout to Jason, you’re good at your job! LISST exceeds its reputation. Subjectively, I detect less rattle than usual, but this could be from any number of things (smaller ensembles, in particular). Furthermore, I think the necessity for pairing tubes with HD800 is overstated. LISST is not, to my ears, excessively bright, fatiguing, “over-revealing” (???), or in any other way undesirable. (But if you’re buying, skip the stock tubes, they’re a piece of schiit. Get iFi, Reflektor ’75, or Amperax Orange Globes.) 
  
*Differences*
 As in every a/b, they will be overstated. Part of the months-long delay for this section is indeed that the two cans are quite similar for chamber music—both excellent picks, as long as you can afford at least a Mjolnir 2 for your K1000. 
  
*Transparency*
 While HD800 are I think more accurate headphones (with a caveat about my misgivings concerning their rendering of the piano), something about K1000 captures the live essence of performance—probably their ‘near field monitor’-ness. Does anyone else hear colorations in the sound? They must be minor, but I detect a secret sauce somewhere. Nevertheless, I think HD800 conveys strings with a touch more richness and authority, even if the overall effect isn’t quite as dazzling. K1000 captures (inserts?) some of the magic of live performance, thanks probably to its extraordinary soundstage.
  
*Value*
 I haven’t yet decided whether to do a final comparison on symphonic and choral music (please let me know if you are interested). Nevertheless, in case I don’t, I want to add a word here about value for money. I bought mine for $1650, whereas HD800 was about $950 after I replaced the aging ear pads and headband. Used HD800 have dropped a few hundred dollars in the 18 months I’ve owned mine. It’s difficult to swallow the pill of Audeze prices for something with as narrow a set of use-cases as the K1000. I unhesitatingly recommend HD800 to virtually everyone with even a casual interest in acoustic music, but K1000 is both a worse value and less broadly useful purchase. It should be bought only by those for whom classical music is a primary genre. For these, as I implied in my bang/marry/kill point in the prologue, I think HD800 must still be everyone’s first choice (marry), but that K1000 is an unbelievable complementary headphone(/ear speaker). Prices seem to range from $1400 to $2000 on the used market. 
  
*Should I buy?*
 The engineers behind K1000 have gotten back together and are planning a successor, the “MySphere”: http://www.mysphere.at/
  
 I would wait to purchase K1000 until this headphone has been released, as it claims to have (1) great comfort, (2) no rattle, and (3) much smaller power demands. However, word on the street is that it will also have (4) a Focal Utopia-level price. Still, if you’re seriously interested, you should wait until a price and initial impressions of MySphere come out in 2017.
  
 —
  
*Beethoven - Cello Sonata #3 - Richter and Rostropovich*
 This gem is the perfect storm for the K1000—the low FQ of the cello mitigates its natural tendency toward the treble. 
  
 K1000 continues to showcase its solo piano black magic: it manages to thread the needle between solidity and resonance on the lower end and effortless, airy precision up top. The effect is sublime and breathtakingly transparent. HD800 sound accurate but mundane. The recording dates from the early 1960s, and the sound, though good, is not pristine in the manner of contemporary recordings. Ultimately HD800 lacks the suppleness and finesse that this recording requires; it brings Angela Merkel when Kate Middleton is really all you need. 
  
*Mozart - Oboe Quartet in F K370, Amadeus Quartet and Lothar Koch*
  
 Really lovely oboe playing here; strings allow the instrument to show off all of its lovely intricacies. HD800 is more earthy and intimate; K1000 is more airy and soaring, and its insensitivity means a blacker background, a greater sense of instruments emerging out of the room you’re sitting in. Can’t pick a definitive imaging champ; they are both at the absolute top of the pack. My own classical preferences recommend neutral, reference cans, and owning both of these, I can’t imagine life without them; they are different flavors (HE-6, which I hope to mod further, and amp better, is a third) but both glorious. I recall Captain Von Trapp from the Sound of Music saying at one point “We are not German, we are Austrian—and that is a very different thing.” So too is the German Sennheiser clinical in ways that the Austrian AKG is organic, a point made before but which bears repeating. 
  
*Beethoven: An die ferne Geliebte (Wunderlich, Diesen)*
  
 No question that Fritz Wunderlich was a premature loss; his voice is _made_ for lieder: bright, smooth, expressive. I’ve often said K1000 stamps its own ethereal sense of space over what HD800 renders in more prosaic, but plausible, terms. The barest hint of echoes of the hall that Wunderlich is in is perceptible on the K1000. The main problem I have listening to the NBC Symphony recordings with Toscanini is that there is no decay, no resonance in their recording space, which robs it of grandeur. K1000 threads this incredible needle of conveying “inches from the singer’s mouth” immediacy and capturing the acoustic of the space. Lieder, I think, might be the deadliest weapon in K1000’s arsenal, not least because they are not weighty enough for EQing them to waken The Rattle such as larger orchestral works do.
  
 HD800 - Interestingly enough, although I’m still tepid about the HD800 and piano (EQ is slowly narrowing the gap), the prominence of vocals in lieder and the HD800’s command with all things vocal makes lieder a strength, if not an equal strength, for them. Thicker rendering of voice and piano, less separation between the two, and more closed-in space, but perhaps more technically perfect.
  
*Schumann - Frauenliebe und -leben (Anne Sofie von Otter, Bengt Forsberg) - LISST*
  
 Perhaps giving us the definitive liederkreise for the female voice, Schumann runs the emotional gamut, daring to let the piano fill emotional space that Schubert never would have (especially in the final song).
  
 Reading the above remarks two months on, I can only underline my preference for K1000 for lieder. Vocals are essentially a wash, HD800 renders piano through a window that K1000 removes. (I recall someone posting somewhere that K1000 sounds “better than live,” i.e., in every live performance, you will hear some slight muddiness that K1000 artificially removes.) HD800's soundstage, too, feels closed in, and yet the performance simultaneously feels more distant. I am surprised that I find the _smaller_ ensembles to be where K1000 surpasses HD800 most, and the larger symphonic stuff where (at least without a better amp) it can’t compete as plausibly.
  
*Schubert - Trout Quintet (Emil Gilels & Amadeus Quartet) - LISST*
  
 Piano remains the question over which I despair most: the impact that is lessened in K1000 seems to be replaced in HD800 by occasional bloat somewhere in the upper bass/low mids. HD800 images beautifully, as does K1000; the quartet is very clearly in front of me, with the cello off to the hard right and violins to the left—only the viola seems to sink into the woodwork (it’s just off dead center to the right, but audible rarely). Detail retrieval is a wash, but K1000 gets the nod for delineating complex passages. Strings have more bottom with HD800, and are more polished. Yet they sparkle more with K1000, and have a certain rust, or musk, or sepia quality that moves me from the recording studio in which the recording was invariably made to the concert hall in which I _would like to imagine_ the performance taking place. This effect of conveying live performance is subtle and counterintuitive: K1000’s signature is tilted upward, which would suggest an even more clinical sound. It also has difficulty coming off in orchestral music because of the sheer lack of impact. But in solo piano and chamber and lieder it is uncanny.
  
 HD800 is Tebaldi; K1000 is Callas.
  
*Beethoven - Große Fugue - Emerson Quartet - LISST*
  
 Gonna call it a wash. K1000 is more spherical in the soundstage, HD800 more left-right. K1000 more thrilling, HD800 more weighty. Apologies for ending with a whimper.


----------



## FLTWS

Thanks.
  
 With regards to "I haven’t yet decided whether to do a final comparison on symphonic and choral music (please let me know if you are interested)."
  
 I am interested.
  
 I've never heard the K1000 (and most likely won't). The HD800, warts and all, is still my first choice over my Oppo PM-1, Senn HD600, and 7 to 10 day in-home auditions of; Abyss 1266, Dharma D1000, and HiFiMan 1000 (original). And it was a very close call with the HD800S (still not absolutely certain I prefer the 800 to the 800S in all scenarios).
  
 I have not heard either of the Focal's. I tried 2 of the Audeze models but could not get a comfortable enough fit for an extended listening session and in general find all of the planar magnetic types to exhibit a coloration that adds too much body or thickness of texture in the mids and bottom. They never take me by surprise as in "that's very realistic sounding". But, that's just my personal listening take on the planar magnetic's I've heard so far.
  
 I found the 800 (and S) to be just about perfect for everything classical from Gregorian Chant to just before Bruckner. I'm still looking for a phone that can maintain it's composure on the full-blown Late Symphonic and 20th century stuff so I'd like any input you'd care to give. Per Faber; "Knowledge is Good".


----------



## ColtMrFire

Wonder how the 800s would sound through this...
  
 http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/15/12480856/select-dac-ii-amplifier-audiophile-experience


----------



## DavidA

coltmrfire said:


> Wonder how the 800s would sound through this...
> 
> http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/15/12480856/select-dac-ii-amplifier-audiophile-experience


 
 don't think the HD-800 would work on it, its a electrostatic amp


----------



## ColtMrFire

After going back and forth with having the dust covers in or out, I decided to keep them in.  
  
 While having them out added some clarity and smoothness, it was missing some fullness.  Almost like the sounds coming from a void with no anchor.  This was mostly bothersome with classical, didn't seem natural in terms of presenting the soundstage and instruments.  Like everything with this headphone, I'm sure the covers were very carefully designed for a reason.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> After going back and forth with having the dust covers in or out, I decided to keep them in.
> 
> While having them out added some clarity and smoothness, it was missing some fullness.  Almost like the sounds coming from a void with no anchor.  This was mostly bothersome with classical, didn't seem natural in terms of presenting the soundstage and instruments.  Like everything with this headphone, I'm sure the covers were very carefully designed for a reason.




Yeah, primarily to prevent dust from accumulating on the driver, which deadens the sound over time.


----------



## fjrabon

running into a bit of a conundrum, setup wise, for my two desktop rigs.  Wondering if anybody has any thoughts/suggestions that might trigger some ideas.  Both rigs use HD800 as the primary listener (although occasionally the THX00 or SRH840 make guest appearances when closed cans are needed, but for the purposes of this, consider these to both be HD800 rigs).
  
 I have two desktop rigs, one for my home office desk, and one for my "listening chair."  THe office desk rig is mostly for passive rocking out while I work.  The "listening chair" is where I go to critical listen, but also to relax. 
  
 Currently the office desk rig is: macbook pro -> jitterbug -> Modi Multibit -> HiFiMan EF2C (Voshkod 6ZH1P EF95)
  
 Listening chair rig is: mbp -> Wyrd -> Cayin iDAC6 -> ECP/Beezar Topredo III (GE 5 star 12AY7)
  
 Today, listening to the office rig, I got pretty amazed by how good it sounds.  The "listening chair" rig is a $2700 setup, while this humble office rig setup was about $400.  Basically the EF2C (voshkod tubes), while not the most finessed amp in the world, kicks like a mule in transient response.  Definitely the cheapest amp I've found that really does justice to the HD800.  However, its weakness is in micro detail, or lack thereof.  For a tube amp it's pretty neutral, definitely not gooey like some little dots that use mullards from the same family are.  
  
 The listening chair rig is amazing, the Cayin iDAC6 is warm and comfortable as far as neutral DACs go, not a hint of harshness.  It also really has some kick to its analog output stage.  It is also very detailed, however, I sometimes feel that its intense output response, and intense transient response covers up details "inside" and "surrounding" transients.  Like a kick drum can be so intense that it doesn't even allow my ear to hear details of the character of the kick drum.  something like transient microdetail is either missing, or covered up by its intensity.
  
 The Modimultibit is supremely micro detailed, warm, inviting.  However, it does lack some of the "authority" of transients, and thus a touch of excitement, in some very aggressive music.  It's like kick drums don't kick as hard, snares don't snap as hard.  I can tell how heavy the drummer's sticks are (seriously, it has that much detail), but I can't feel the crack of the snare in the same way as with the iDAC6.  
  
 So, my conundrum, is do I switch out the MM and iDAC6, and have two different experiences for the HD800?  Right now, both rigs sort of sound similar, although the "listening chair" rig does sound subtly, but noticeably better.  But I think the fact that the punchier, less detailed amp is paired with the more relaxed, more detailed DAC, and vice versa, somewhat equalizes them (no pun intended).  If I switched I could have an "ultimate in warm, inviting, yet supremely detailed" listening chair setup and a "holy schiit, i had no idea an HD800 could kick like this" work desk" setup.  

 I'm also open to any suggestions people might have on minor tweaks (tubes, USB decrapifier, power buffer, etc).

 I've tried all 4 configurations, and they all have their merits.  If I had to pick one single configuration as absolute best, it'd probably be MM -> TIII.  but iDAC6 -> TIII comes really close and can surpass it on rock, which makes up the largest genre I listen to, and about 1/3 of my listening overall (Jazz, alt-country, Soul, metal, indie, alt rock, R&B, classical and rap make up most of the bulk of the rest, in roughly that order).

 (also if anybody has any questions about any of these in relation to the HD800, just let me know)


----------



## jibzilla

fjrabon said:


> running into a bit of a conundrum, setup wise, for my two desktop rigs.  Wondering if anybody has any thoughts/suggestions that might trigger some ideas.  Both rigs use HD800 as the primary listener (although occasionally the THX00 or SRH840 make guest appearances when closed cans are needed, but for the purposes of this, consider these to both be HD800 rigs).
> 
> I have two desktop rigs, one for my home office desk, and one for my "listening chair."  THe office desk rig is mostly for passive rocking out while I work.  The "listening chair" is where I go to critical listen, but also to relax.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Really want something different? Have you considered records? It is very daunting at first. I had some really bad moments in the beginning but if you have someone who has been down that road to help it is not that bad at all. I did it without any help and yeah tough, almost gave up on it a few times, but really glad I stuck with it. The biggest gain is soundstage imo which really lends itself to the hd800. If you think the hd800 soundstage is great with mp3's wait til you hear a direct to disc record. The biggest downfall is records themselves which are already well known which are good and which are not which drives the price sky high. Also panning on some songs ruins headphone listening, only a few percent of songs though.
  
 If that is totally out of the question what about a matching ECP dac for your ECP amp. I'm very impressed with mine.


----------



## Sorrodje

@fjrabon :
  
 If I were you, I'd move the Modi MB in the main rig and the DAC6 in the Work rig. Then I'd evaluate how is the result of Modi MB + TIII . If it's any good , I'd try a Gumby. This one would likely bring the slam you're missing while retaining some warmth . I have the Yggy and IMO it could be a  tad too much for a relaxing experience so maybe the gumby is the sweet spot for the "involving yet relaxing" experience you're looking for . With my Stratus and my Stat rig,  Yggy is perfect but both are on the smooth side. 
  
  
 My 2 cents.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Question...
  
 I have heard people driving their 800s using speaker taps.  There is a Hifiman adapter box for $99 some people use (balanced connection on one end, speaker taps on the other).  Can this be used successfully with the 800?  What kind of solid state speaker amps would be ideal?  I am looking to maybe try something different to give the 800s more juice since people rave about it, but I want to make sure I don't overdrive them, and find a speaker amp that has the right power/ohms, etc.  Preferably something under $600.
  
 Or just any general advice in this arena would be helpful.


----------



## Hansotek

fjrabon said:


> running into a bit of a conundrum, setup wise, for my two desktop rigs.  Wondering if anybody has any thoughts/suggestions that might trigger some ideas.  Both rigs use HD800 as the primary listener (although occasionally the THX00 or SRH840 make guest appearances when closed cans are needed, but for the purposes of this, consider these to both be HD800 rigs).
> 
> I have two desktop rigs, one for my home office desk, and one for my "listening chair."  THe office desk rig is mostly for passive rocking out while I work.  The "listening chair" is where I go to critical listen, but also to relax.
> 
> ...




This might sound a little funny, but I think much of the issue would be solved by ditching USB audio (at least as much as possible). USB is, for the most part, a devastatingly poor method of realtime audio data transfer. The protocol transfers are built all wrong. Coaxial S/PDIF, on the other hand (along with TOSLINK optical) were designed in conjunction with the Audio Engineering Society and European Broadcasting Union to the AES3 standard. S/PDIF, developed in a joint effort by Sony and Philips, is considered by many to be the better of the two consumer-grade AES3 connections, as it is capable of twice the sampling rate (24/192) as Toshiba's alternative, TOSLINK optical (24/96). The main difference in these formats from USB is the handling of validity and parity in the transfer of data to your DAC. Essentially, the bad bits get muted here, which is a very good thing sonically (as it sounds much better than an error).

So what are the differences? Better transient snap, much better impact, better soundstage size & shape, better imaging, better timbre, and a different (often quieter and less fatiguing) background. 

Unearth your old CD player and some discs, grab yourself a $10 coax S/PDIF cable, and give it a whirl. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how much difference it can make. From there, you might want to consider your other non-USB options, like a dedicated DAP or USB to S/PDIF converter. 

As mentioned above by jibzilla, vinyl is also a good alternative, as it also avoids many of the issues that come with USB audio. 

I think both options are going to restore much of the tactility, etc. you are missing from your music.


----------



## Hansotek

coltmrfire said:


> Question...
> 
> I have heard people driving their 800s using speaker taps.  There is a Hifiman adapter box for $99 some people use (balanced connection on one end, speaker taps on the other).  Can this be used successfully with the 800?  What kind of solid state speaker amps would be ideal?  I am looking to maybe try something different to give the 800s more juice since people rave about it, but I want to make sure I don't overdrive them, and find a speaker amp that has the right power/ohms, etc.  Preferably something under $600.
> 
> Or just any general advice in this arena would be helpful.




I'd look into different alternatives over that Hifiman adaptor. It is generally reviled on the HE-6 thread. I, personally, thought it sounded like garbage. I'm sure there is a better alternative out there.

Pro tip: never turn on your stereo amp with your headphones plugged in to the speaker taps. It's a great way to blow the drivers.

Pro tip #2: it's not about juice so much as quality. A good class-A speaker amp can take your music to the next level. If you are trying to drive them out of a class-D home theater receiver, they are going to sound like junk. Power alone isn't enough, you need current bandwidth and quality to get what you are looking for.


----------



## fjrabon

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I really appreciate them. A vinyl speaker rig is definitely in the future, but for now space constraints more or less rule it out. In addition, crossfeed is more or less a necessity in a headphone rig for me, and I've yet to find a satisfactory crossfeed solution for vinyl setups. Next year we are buying a house and at that point I will probably start a vinyl speaker rig journey. 

Sorrodje, I think your comments might be spot on. I've tried Yggy and loved it in other systems, but in my system is was back to being a little too much punch. It sounds like a slightly more 3 dimensional version of the iDAC6, but still had dynamics that kind of overwhelmed my ear at times. Maybe Gumby is the correct middle ground for my rig. 

I've tried SPIDF quite a few times and the cons always ended up outweighing the pros for me, but perhaps it's time for a new evaluation. I tried a USB -> SPIDF converter and couldn't tell a difference with regular USB. And the hassle of dedicated DAPs always meant that they simply didn't get used. CDs are a no go for me, I hate dealing with them. On a physical level they have the inconvenience of vinyl, without the charm and performance of vinyl (again, for me, ymmv, etc). Maybe a USB -> SPIDF converter is the answer and the one I tried wasn't very good? Have any recs there? I have most of my favorite albums in 24/192 so I'm "limited" to SPIDF. 

It's a nice, but semi frustrating place to be for me right now, as I really am extremely happy with my setup and most things I try are a step backwards. When I go to meets, I rarely hear a rig that I would prefer to mine. But the head-fi in me can't stop looking for that last little 1%.


----------



## ColtMrFire

@fjrabon, FYI, Mimby actually measures much better out of the Coax than USB.  Atomicbob measured it a while back.  Before I even saw his measurement, I one day switched from USB to Coax and the difference was NOT subtle.  USB sounded comparatively like garbage to me, and I was even using the Regen with it.  I'm not saying USB from Mimby is bad on its own, but Coax completely embarrassed it.  I switched over to CDs/Coax after that and never looked back.  I also, do not know the specifics if your computer though, so it's possible I had a garbage laptop, but I doubt it.  It was a very good laptop, and I also had various program garbage/noise reduction programs running as well.
  
 CDs may not be practical for you with the Mimby, but I cannot listen to USB with it anymore.  When I upgrade to Gumby or Yggy, that may change, but we will see how they do USB.  I suspect they have better USB implementation.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I must say, the HD800 really allows you to hear the amazing production values that go into a well mastered pop record.  Listening to Public Imagine LTD. "Album" right now... prime example.  PIL is a punk band that went new wave/pop in the 80s, but brought this surreal punk aesthetic to pop music, and it really shows here.  Just amazing layering, depth, and weird juxtapositions of sounds.  Like Huey Lewis and the News on steroids.  And John Lydon uses his voice like Miles Davis uses his trumpet (Davis actually said that to him one point).


----------



## Hansotek

fjrabon said:


> Thanks for the suggestions guys. I really appreciate them. A vinyl speaker rig is definitely in the future, but for now space constraints more or less rule it out. In addition, crossfeed is more or less a necessity in a headphone rig for me, and I've yet to find a satisfactory crossfeed solution for vinyl setups. Next year we are buying a house and at that point I will probably start a vinyl speaker rig journey.
> 
> Sorrodje, I think your comments might be spot on. I've tried Yggy and loved it in other systems, but in my system is was back to being a little too much punch. It sounds like a slightly more 3 dimensional version of the iDAC6, but still had dynamics that kind of overwhelmed my ear at times. Maybe Gumby is the correct middle ground for my rig.
> 
> ...




There are a couple of threads on USB to S/PDIF converters:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/503472/the-usb-to-spdif-converters-shoot-out-thread

http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived

I heard the Talema is pretty good without being outrageously priced. I haven't tried any of these first hand though, so that's about all I've got.


----------



## Yoga

Man. Phonitor 2 turned up today.
  
 The HD800 sounds _amazing_ through it. Sound has opened up, as if a muddy veil was resting over it before. Darker background, better separation. That's single ended too, balanced cable coming tomorrow to test. Cardas Lite. Couldn't get the TOTL Clear in time.
  
 The Phonitor X is coming soon too, but that's more for additional IO and whatnot, I assume the performance will be the same.

 HD800 + Phonitor 2 + Sonarworks Ref 3 = dream.


----------



## Yoga

coltmrfire said:


> Question...
> 
> I have heard people driving their 800s using speaker taps.  There is a Hifiman adapter box for $99 some people use (balanced connection on one end, speaker taps on the other).  Can this be used successfully with the 800?  What kind of solid state speaker amps would be ideal?  I am looking to maybe try something different to give the 800s more juice since people rave about it, but I want to make sure I don't overdrive them, and find a speaker amp that has the right power/ohms, etc.  Preferably something under $600.
> 
> Or just any general advice in this arena would be helpful.


 

 That's overkill for the HD800. Plenty of HP amps drive them well enough already.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Went to the library to rent some CDs.
  
 HD800/Jot/Mimby sounds so ridiculously amazing I am having the urge to expand my musical tastes.  It really makes a huge difference being able to hear albums the way they were meant to be heard and now I'd like to start exploring new artists I hadn't heard.
  
 First up Ryan Adams.  Heard of him, but never bothered until now.  Got his self titled album.  So far I am loving the production values, very nice layering of guitar and bass, drums.  And his voice is pleasing to listen to.  Not a hint of harshness.  And this is a rock CD!


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> Went to the library to rent some CDs.
> 
> HD800/Jot/Mimby sounds so ridiculously amazing I am having the urge to expand my musical tastes.  It really makes a huge difference being able to hear albums the way they were meant to be heard and now I'd like to start exploring new artists I hadn't heard.
> 
> First up Ryan Adams.  Heard of him, but never bothered until now.  Got his self titled album.  So far I am loving the production values, very nice layering of guitar and bass, drums.  And his voice is pleasing to listen to.  Not a hint of harshness.  And this is a rock CD!


 
 A couple you may want to try Dire Straits _Brothers in Arms_ and Steely Dan _Aja_.  Both are very well produced making them a couple of my favorites to audition new equipment.


----------



## DaemonSire

Has anyone tried the HD800 on the MAD Ear+ HD amp?  I know it was designed around the HD650 so curious as to how it translates to the HD800.
  
 I've been really tempted to pick up an HD800 lately and hope that it would pair well with the Ear+
  
 Thanks


----------



## fjrabon

just remembered that the MBP does output optical TOSLINK SPIDF though the headphone jack.  I guess I can just try that out before I drop $200-$2000 on a USB ->SPIDF converter.  The Gustard U12 does look appealing if I end up going that route.


----------



## Yoga

coltmrfire said:


> First up Ryan Adams.  Heard of him, but never bothered until now.  Got his self titled album.  So far I am loving the production values, very nice layering of guitar and bass, drums.  And his voice is pleasing to listen to.  Not a hint of harshness.  And this is a rock CD!


 
  
 Great call with Ryan - fantastic artist and production/mastering.
  
 If you're a spotify user, check this out:
  
 https://open.spotify.com/user/georgeeasten/playlist/69ssaTM08k8iiKscq0VHGQ
  
 Pink Fish Reference playlist. Some crackers in there.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Sorry, made a mistake, the Ryan Adams album I listened to was "Pax Am"


----------



## jibzilla

mwsvette said:


> A couple you may want to try Dire Straits _Brothers in Arms_ and Steely Dan _Aja_.  Both are very well produced making them a couple of my favorites to audition new equipment.


 
  
 I have only been to five meets but the Steely Dan and Eagles have all ruled the shows. Personally I think those 2 bands are a bit over rated but there is not much getting around Aja is a solid album from to top bottom.


----------



## ColtMrFire

yoga said:


> That's overkill for the HD800. Plenty of HP amps drive them well enough already.


 
  
 What about all those people raving their 800s didnt come alive until they ran them off speaker taps?  Are they delusional?


----------



## MattTCG

coltmrfire said:


> What about all those people raving their 800s didnt come alive until they ran them off speaker taps?  Are they delusional?


 
  
 Possibly. If you could borrow an adapter, that would be best. Try before you buy it is always best when possible. Best on my own personal experience, I'd say that it's not something that will be any huge benefit. I personally tried several vintage receivers off the taps and none of them equaled a good headphone amp. Although some of the vintage steel did sound great with the hd800 straight from the headphone jack.


----------



## Yoga

coltmrfire said:


> What about all those people raving their 800s didnt come alive until they ran them off speaker taps?  Are they delusional?


 

 Possibly! It depends on the dedicated amps they've tried previously 
  
 I'm not saying speaker amps don't drive them well, I'm sure they can. The basis of such comparisons/scalability are more useful from those who have run the HD800 through big/powerful dedicated HP amps.

 More people need to hear the HD800 through the Phonitor 2! New models out too actually, the Mini and E.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

coltmrfire said:


> What about all those people raving their 800s didnt come alive until they ran them off speaker taps?  Are they delusional?


 
  
 No, they are misinformed.  They think speaker amps are better for the HD800 because they are comparing things like a First WATT J2 to a Schiit Asgard.  OBVIOUSLY the FW amp is better... But it's a stupid comparison.
  
 I've lived with the HD800 with a variety of amps and both headphone and speaker amps and both can work well, but I always tend to gravitate back towards dedicated headphone amps for a variety of reasons - noise floor being one of the more notable reasons.  I would say this runs even more true if you are working with a $600 budget.  
  
 Another thing to keep in mind when it comes to "over driving" headphones: It's possible with a headamp as well as a speaker amp.  Speaker amps bost big numbers in wattage...  into 8 ohm.  Into the 300 ohm HD800 that wattage drastically drops so it isn't quote as crazy as one would think: you aren't going to pump 100 watts though the HD800 with nearly any amp on the market, much less a $600 amp.  
  
 100 watts into 8 ohm is actually a much more modest 2.6 watts into the HD800 and 100 watts into the HD800 would be a staggering 3,750 watts into 8 ohms...
  
 If you are working with $600 don't waste $100 of that on an adapter.


----------



## Yoga

bigfatpaulie said:


> No, they are misinformed.  They think speaker amps are better for the HD800 because they are comparing things like a First WATT J2 to a Schiit Asgard.  OBVIOUSLY the FW amp is better... But it's a stupid comparison.
> 
> I've lived with the HD800 with a variety of amps and both headphone and speaker amps and both can work well, but I always tend to gravitate back towards dedicated headphone amps for a variety of reasons - noise floor being one of the more notable reasons.  I would say this runs even more true if you are working with a $600 budget.
> 
> ...


 

 Spot on.
  
 Out of interest—while you're here—which cable did you opt for with your HD800, and was it SE or Balanced?


----------



## Thenewguy007

coltmrfire said:


> What about all those people raving their 800s didnt come alive until they ran them off speaker taps?  Are they delusional?




I'll say the best bass I eve heard from the HD800 was from monster vintage receivers.

Of course not just any receiver will do. Just like now, there were levels of higher end stuff & they still cost in the thousands to buy.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

yoga said:


> Spot on.
> 
> Out of interest—while you're here—which cable did you opt for with your HD800, and was it SE or Balanced?


 
  
 An OCC copper Double Helix Complement 4, hardwired with an Eidolic 4 pin XLR connector.


----------



## 13713

bigfatpaulie said:


> An OCC copper Double Helix Complement 4, hardwired with an Eidolic 4 pin XLR connector.




Very nice. Once you go 4 pin it is hard to go back.


----------



## listen4joy

nice cable, i read preety good things on Dana cable too.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I've never heard HD800 better than on WA5. It's a bit warm, of course, but the synergy was just perfect. I hope to get one...at some point. Tesla comes first.


----------



## johnjen

fjrabon said:


> just remembered that the MBP does output optical TOSLINK SPIDF though the headphone jack.  I guess I can just try that out before I drop $200-$2000 on a USB ->SPIDF converter.  The Gustard U12 does look appealing if I end up going that route.


 
 Also consider the Singxer SU-1 DDC.
 $400
  
 JJ


----------



## Thenewguy007

johnjen said:


> Also consider the Singxer SU-1 DDC.
> $400
> 
> JJ




There is one on eBay being sold for $360 shipped brand new. I bought it & it arrived in 2+ weeks. 
The same seller sold it at $330 for a few days before bumping up the price. 

Well worth it imo.


----------



## Yoga

bigfatpaulie said:


> An OCC copper Double Helix Complement 4, hardwired with an Eidolic 4 pin XLR connector.


 
  
 Nice!
  
 Have you tried the Cardas Clear by any chance?
  
 Waiting months for DHC always puts me off ordering 
  
 Did you specifically avoid silver?


----------



## johnjen

thenewguy007 said:


> There is one on eBay being sold for $360 shipped brand new. I bought it & it arrived in 2+ weeks.
> The same seller sold it at $330 for a few days before bumping up the price.
> 
> Well worth it imo.


 
 Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised at how close it came to the D16 we were comparing it to.
  
 It is a decent DDC for sure, and for the price, a bargain in comparison to  some of the competition.
  
 JJ


----------



## bigfatpaulie

yoga said:


> Nice!
> 
> Have you tried the Cardas Clear by any chance?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have not.  I tend to stay away from the big manufactures and I have always gravitated towards DHC and Norne.  I've used some other briefly but I could never find a compelling reason to not use a Norne for a value and DHC for best performance.  
  
 I also had the Comp4 in silver and, honestly, the difference between the two is not as big as many would you believe.  The copper version was ever so slightly more 'bass heavy' (I think it was actually a case for more treble light) so I felt it was better fit with the HD800.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Wagner: Der Ring des Nibelungen (Ring Cycle)
  
 Solti or Karajan rendition?  Never heard this, and I'm a big Karajan fan, but Solti is amazing. Wondering which version I should get to let the 800s dig deep into.


----------



## FLTWS

Solti FTW, VK is too light weight / almost a chamber music approach for me. Solti has the better soloists in my opinion as well. My second choice would be Bohm.
  
 I believe bosiemoncrieff is our Perfect Wagnerite here at Head-Fi, hopefully he will weigh in as well. This is the one to get if you spring for Solti. I believe it is the best available transfer and comes with Deryk Cook bonus discs. This price is also a steal. 
  

  
  
  
  
  
 This is Deccas landmark recording of Wagners Der Ring des Nibelungen conducted by Sir Georg Solti - the most celebrated classical recording in history.
 The Greatest Recording of All Time
 (Gramophone Magazine 1999 BBC Music Magazine 2011)
 Grammy Award Edison Award Grand Prix Mondial du disque
 Sir Georg Soltis recording of Wagners epic music-drama Der Ring des Nibelungen was a recording project on a scale without precedent and the first-ever studio recording of Wagners masterpiece.
 Recorded between September 1958 and November 1965, it was masterminded by legendary producer John Culshaw and his technical team under the direction of chief engineer Gordon Parry. This massive undertaking set new standards in both opera recording and the possibilities of the effective and imaginative use of stereo.
 The combination of Sir Georg Solti and the Vienna Philharmonic with an international cast of the greatest Wagnerian singers available resulted in a recording which was greeted with unprecedented enthusiasm and rave reviews and which quickly won numerous international awards.
 Decca proudly presents the definitive high bit-depth transfer of this legendary recording, carefully remastered in 2012.
 The set features:
 An anti-scratch matt finish 16CD + Bonus CD-Rom capbox box set containing Soltis immortal recording of Wagners Der Ring des Nibelungen as remastered in 2012.
 An extensive 108-page booklet featuring written introductions to each opera by producer John Culshaw, synopses in English and German and many original session photographs.
 Including Deryck Cookes An Introduction to Der Ring Des Nibelungen (CD 15-16).
 PDF transcript is also available on the CD-Rom.
 CD-Rom containing complete libretti in original German with English translation and French translation.
 This careful and much-lauded remastering from 2012 has to-date only been issued in a limited edition 17CD + Blu-ray Audio package (which has almost sold out)and more recently in a Deluxe Blu-Ray Audio only edition.
 So this is the first presentation of a CD-only edition of the 2012 remastering.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Thanks.
  
 Solti seems the popular choice for this around the web as well.
  
 Solti did an amazing Mahler's 8th Symphony as well, which I have.  In fact, time to give that a spin...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

coltmrfire said:


> Wagner: Der Ring des Nibelungen (Ring Cycle)
> 
> Solti or Karajan rendition?  Never heard this, and I'm a big Karajan fan, but Solti is amazing. Wondering which version I should get to let the 800s dig deep into.


 
 I literally wrote the article on this, but lean Solti.


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I literally wrote the article on this, but lean Solti.


 
  
 "Well, there it is." (A great read)


----------



## pervysage

bigfatpaulie said:


> I have not.  I tend to stay away from the big manufactures and I have always gravitated towards DHC and Norne.  I've used some other briefly but I could never find a compelling reason to not use a Norne for a value and DHC for best performance.
> 
> I also had the Comp4 in silver and, honestly, the difference between the two is not as big as many would you believe.  The copper version was ever so slightly more 'bass heavy' (I think it was actually a case for more treble light) so I felt it was better fit with the HD800.




Would you say there is a big difference in performance with Norne vs. DHC cables? The DHC's certainly come with quite a price tag. 

I have tried a couple Nornes (the Draug 2 is great with HD800), never tried any DHC.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Was never a big RnB fan, but the production value on Tyrese's 'Black Rose' is first rate.  It's interesting though how you can hear artificially added sibilance on this album (and probably alot of pop) with the HD800.  And the BASS...woah.  So textured, nuanced and localized (not just pumping out into your ears, but coming from somewhere in the soundscape in its own location).  You can even hear bloat type (car rattling) bass vs. clean/dry bass vs. very deep volcanic/subterranean bass, and the 800 produces all these (and really the entire bass spectrum) with tons of detail.  I am also continually amazed how MUSICAL and euphonic this headphone sounds, after reading how soulless and sterile they were supposed to be.  Admittedly the upgrade cable helps in this department, but even the stock cable sounded great.  I've done more head bobbing and foot tapping with the 800 than any other.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

pervysage said:


> Would you say there is a big difference in performance with Norne vs. DHC cables? The DHC's certainly come with quite a price tag.
> 
> I have tried a couple Nornes (the Draug 2 is great with HD800), never tried any DHC.


 
  
 A BIG difference.  No.  'Differences' tend be a little over blown.  None of the cables, to me, are earth shattering over the stock cable.  Are some better that others?  Sure, I guess.  Are they different?  Yes.  
  
 I had a Draug2 and a Solv.  Both offer excellent value.  The DHC cable is more transparent than the Solv and Draug and all three have difference characteristics.  The ergonomics of the cables are night and day, for sure.  
  
 What I will say is that it is a balance - don't buy a $2000 cable to go with a $1000 headphone and $500 amp/DAC.  If you have a  $15,000+ source with a $15,000+ amp, go nuts and spring for "the good stuff".


----------



## Yoga

bigfatpaulie said:


> A BIG difference.  No.  'Differences' tend be a little over blown.  None of the cables, to me, are earth shattering over the stock cable.  Are some better that others?  Sure, I guess.  Are they different?  Yes.
> 
> I had a Draug2 and a Solv.  Both offer excellent value.  The DHC cable is more transparent than the Solv and Draug and all three have difference characteristics.  The ergonomics of the cables are night and day, for sure.
> 
> What I will say is that it is a balance - don't buy a $2000 cable to go with a $1000 headphone and $500 amp/DAC.  If you have a  $15,000+ source with a $15,000+ amp, go nuts and spring for "the good stuff".


 

 Heard the Prion 4 yet? :¬)


----------



## bigfatpaulie

yoga said:


> Heard the Prion 4 yet? :¬)


 
  
 No, Sir.  At a premium of 80% more than the Silver Comp4, given the difference between a silver Comp 4 and stock cables I'm not that curious.  Diminishing returns is already working with titanic force I don't personally feel obliged to go to a Prion.  I would sooner spend more on other interconnects, tubes, power or (most of all) something like a microRendu or SOtM SMS-200.


----------



## Yoga

bigfatpaulie said:


> No, Sir.  At a premium of 80% more than the Silver Comp4, given the difference between a silver Comp 4 and stock cables I'm not that curious.  Diminishing returns is already working with titanic force I don't personally feel obliged to go to a Prion.  I would sooner spend more on other interconnects, tubes, power or (most of all) something like a microRendu or SOtM SMS-200.


 

 Too much for me also. If I do go with DGC it'll be Comp/Spore 4 (can't remember which is better).


----------



## bigfatpaulie

yoga said:


> Too much for me also. If I do go with DGC it'll be Comp/Spore 4 (can't remember which is better).


 
  
 The Spore is more money because it has the crazy shielding on it.  I've only ever had the 'regular' Compliments (I also had the 2) without the Spore shielding.  With each new cable I spoke to Peter and I gave him the opportunity to talk me into it.  Both times he talked me out of it.
  
 I live in a condo, downtown with a LOT of RF interference and my Comp4 never, ever has picked any of it up.  Peter felt that if I wasn't getting noise without the shielding, not to bother.  It's more money and makes the cable stiffer and heavier without any benefit (in my case).
  
 I would like to add that I can't get along without something like a P3/P5/P10 because of the amount of noise in my AC lines and most interconnects I have pick up a myriad of interference so if I'm not a candidate for the Spore shielding, I can't imagine who would be...  Perhaps the background would be 0.0001% blacker....  _Maybe_.


----------



## whirlwind

I have been listening to the HD800 tonight.
  
 I have not listened to it for nine weeks....first impressions after a nine week period....what a great headphone.


----------



## Yoga

bigfatpaulie said:


> The Spore is more money because it has the crazy shielding in to.  I've only ever had the 'regular' Compliments (I also had the 2) without the Spore shielding.  With each new cable I spoke to Peter and I gave him the opportunity to talk me into it.  Both times he talked me out of it.
> 
> I live in a condo, downtown with a LOT of RF interference and my Comp4 never, ever has picked any of it up.  Peter felt that if I wasn't getting noise without the sheiling, not to bother.  It's more money and makes the cable stiffer and heavier without any benefit (in my case).
> 
> I would like to add that I can't get along without something like a P3/P5/P10 because of the amount of noise in my AC lines and most interconnects I have pick up a myriad of interference so if I'm not a candidate for the Spore shielding, I can't imagine who would be...  Perhaps the background would be 0.0001% black....  _Maybe_.


 

 Cheers buddy. May have saved me some cash there!


----------



## ColtMrFire

A little Coltrane before bed...
  





  
 Sounds divine.
  
 Goodnight everyone.


----------



## sanjeewasam

HD800 vs Focal Elear​ I am not a recording engineer or anything. However I use my headphones for kind of concentration/meditation. I listen at night when everyone else is sleeping and no outside noise. I love to hear every bit of details- including recording errors, singers breathing if it is captured. I like my music without any coloration- tight base but nothing boomy to overpower mids. In short dead flat across the spectrum.

 I have had LCD-2 w/f, AKG K712 pro, AKG K3003i and own Sennhiser HD800, AKG K812 and now selling Focal Elear. As gear Burson Conductor with Saber Dac (Dac/Amp), Chord Mojo (Dac/Amp), Luxman P-2500 (Amp), Violectric V281 (Amp) and Violectric V850 Dac.

 I would say off all HD800 is the most neural and my go to headphones- sound stage, clarify and neutral. However, if you do not amp it properly it is thin, distant and harsh. Very difficult to understand if the problem is with recording or with the pairing. For instance till I got Violectric V281 (Amp) and Violectric V850 Dac (which has world record in headphone gear for voltage at 600o) the HD800 did not have body (thin and far-> Illusion of sound stage, weak base and highs sometimes run wild). So yes HD800 better than elear but not not with portable gear.

 Elear is just like listening to floor standing speakers but in you ears. Mids are tad less, tad less clarity, lad less mid-high treble, smaller sound stage (but believable) all compared to HD800. But it is the most real thing if you say speakers are the real thing. HD800 is bit artificial. However I listen to my music just before go to bed and for relaxation and I cannot wind down when listening to floor standing speakers- can I? That is why Elear is not for me.

 Elear is very easy to power-- it did very well with chord Mojo direct and did not miss much compared to dedicated desktop setup​


----------



## jmac1516

coltmrfire said:


> A little Coltrane before bed...
> 
> Very nice. I'm a big fan. I need this one.
> 
> I have Love Supreme, Giant Steps, My Favorite Things, and Africa Brass.


----------



## daltonlanny

I have a question about Sonarworks for HD800.
I still listen to digital discs such as cd's, dvd audio, and sacd, through a Beta 22 amp, as well as a Sennheiser HDVD 800 headphone amp.
I hardly listen at all to downloaded music, unless its with my smartphone.
In the above scenario, is there anyway at all that I could use Sonarworks equalization for my HD800 headphones?
If not, is there anyway that I could run my Marantz CD6006 cd player and/or Oppo BDP-95 through a computer, and then to my amp (s), etc., to take advantage of the Sonarworks equalization for the HD800?
If it cannot be done, do you all have any other suggestions on equalizing the frequency response on HD800 without modding it, such as some outboard parametric equalizer, or similar?
Thanks for your help.


----------



## fjrabon

daltonlanny said:


> I have a question about Sonarworks for HD800.
> I still listen to digital discs such as cd's, dvd audio, and sacd, through a Beta 22 amp, as well as a Sennheiser HDVD 800 headphone amp.
> I hardly listen at all to downloaded music, unless its with my smartphone.
> In the above scenario, is there anyway at all that I could use Sonarworks equalization for my HD800 headphones?
> ...


 

 the easiest method would be to simply play your CD through your computer's media player.  However, if you want to use your CD player, it may be theoretically possible to convert the CD player's coaxial digital output into USB, run this into your computer as an audio input, then process this through sonarworks, then output it to your DAC.  However, that sounds like a lot of places the sound could go poorly.  
  
 If you just want the basic idea, you could buy any quality studio rack EQ and just copy the adjustment curve that Sonarworks uses for the HD800 that has been posted here several times.  Copying it exactly would be a very painstaking process, but as long as you use a good rack unit and are careful, you should get great results.
  

  
 for graphic I've used and liked this unit in live music settings.
  
 parametric would be trickier as far as creating a near replica of that curve, but if you could pull it off, would probably sound a bit better.  You'd need a lot of bands (at least 6 to reasonably approximate the above curve).  I don't have any recs on a good hardware parametric EQ, as most of the units I've use were digital plug ins.


----------



## JaZZ

_fjrabon_...
  
 ...the dbx 2232 looks like a fully analogue equalizer – which I would avoid in the interest of signal purity, i.e. sound quality. The ideal solution for _daltonlanny_ would be a digital hardware equalizer, but I have no experience with this kind of devices, so can't offer a recommendation.
  
  
_daltonlanny_...
  
 ...another logical variant would be to rip all disks to the HDD of your computer and use a SonarWorks-compatible audio player there. This solution would mean a lot of hassle at the start, but finally offer you even higher comfort – e.g. much easier search for a specific track or album and the possibility to shuffle among your whole music collection.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Ella and Louis' 'Porgy and Bess' is one of my favorite recordings.  Hearing it for the first time through the 800s is a revelation!


----------



## fjrabon

jazz said:


> _fjrabon_...
> 
> ...the dbx 2232 looks like a fully analogue equalizer – which I would avoid in the interest of signal purity, i.e. sound quality. The ideal solution for _daltonlanny_ would be a digital hardware equalizer, but I have no experience with this kind of devices, so can't offer a recommendation.
> 
> ...




Yeah, I agree, but this was in a world we we are using his marantz CD player. Though that DBT unit is pretty pure and clean. 

Ripping to hard drive as redbook is probably the easiest solution, but he seemed opposed to it.


----------



## 13713

coltmrfire said:


> Ella and Louis' 'Porgy and Bess' is one of my favorite recordings.  Hearing it for the first time through the 800s is a revelation!


 
 This post is pure truth. 
  
 Glad you love your headphones. I have been reading your posts since you put them on. It is like watching a kid open packages. One of the great parts of this hobby is seeing others appreciate and love it.


----------



## ColtMrFire

13713 said:


> This post is pure truth.
> 
> Glad you love your headphones. I have been reading your posts since you put them on. It is like watching a kid open packages. One of the great parts of this hobby is seeing others appreciate and love it.


 
  
 Haha, I bet.  Truth is the 800s are the most significant audio purchase I've ever made.  And I'm talking all the way back to my teenage days, a long time ago.  It's still mind blowing what Sennheiser has achieved with these cans.  And at such a low price point... they're probably worth twice the retail price based on their tremendous ability to scale.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Switching things up a bit with the score from 'The Counselor'.  
  




  
  
 Hated the movie, though it does have some great cinematography and absolutely brutal and inventive death scenes (worth the price of admission)....
  
 Nice atmospheric score, with alot of guitar, accompanied by orchestral stuff.  Has a bit of the Hans Zimmer vibe.


----------



## fjrabon

Don't want to be rude or anything, love the enthusiasm for the HD800, but this thread has essentially turned into one person's real time tweeting of their personal playlist.


----------



## daltonlanny

fjrabon said:


> Yeah, I agree, but this was in a world we we are using his marantz CD player. Though that DBT unit is pretty pure and clean.
> 
> Ripping to hard drive as redbook is probably the easiest solution, but he seemed opposed to it.




Thanks for your help, advice, and the link.
Much appreciated.
Will consider all options for equalization.


----------



## Thenewguy007

sanjeewasam said:


> HD800 vs Focal Elear​
> I am not a recording engineer or anything. However I use my headphones for kind of concentration/meditation. I listen at night when everyone else is sleeping and no outside noise. I love to hear every bit of details- including recording errors, singers breathing if it is captured. I like my music without any coloration- tight base but nothing boomy to overpower mids. In short dead flat across the spectrum.
> 
> 
> ...




How is the AKG 812 vs the HD800? & Elear?


----------



## ColtMrFire

fjrabon said:


> Don't want to be rude or anything, love the enthusiasm for the HD800, but this thread has essentially turned into one person's real time tweeting of their personal playlist.


 
  
 Sorry.


----------



## Yoga

coltmrfire said:


> Sorry.


 

 Knock yourself out 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/253245/what-are-you-listening-to-right-now-new-thread-new-rules-please-read-them


----------



## RCBinTN

You know, personally I was surprised with what happened to the HD800 when the HD800S were launched.  The HD800S are basically a modded version of the HD800 & include both SE and balanced cables.  The resale price of the HD800 immediately tanked; you can now grab a used HD800 for US$800 on Head-Fi.  Has got to be the best price/value anywhere for a TOTL headphone like the HD800.
  
 FWIW,
 Cheers, RCB


----------



## Yoga

rcbintn said:


> You know, personally I was surprised with what happened to the HD800 when the HD800S were launched.  The HD800S are basically a modded version of the HD800 & include both SE and balanced cables.  The resale price of the HD800 immediately tanked; you can now grab a used HD800 for US$800 on Head-Fi.  Has got to be the best price/value anywhere for a TOTL headphone like the HD800.
> 
> FWIW,
> Cheers, RCB


 

 Grabbed a brand new pair for £675 earlier this year, madness. With the Phonitor X and Sonarworks I'm listening to them more than my Abyss setup atm.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Got mine for $790, including the upgrade balanced cable.  In pristine condition as well.  I feel like I stole it.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> Got mine for $790, including the upgrade balanced cable.  In pristine condition as well.  I feel like I stole it.




Yeah, mine was like new for $710. I mean that's like the price of a Grado RS1e. Which... yeah...


----------



## ray-dude

$700 for a HD800 + $25 for a superresonant mod + a gentle bass boost via eq == best price performance anywhere (and a hell of a lot of fun)

The HD800s was an absolute gift, and I very much appreciate it


----------



## Evshrug

nikorasu said:


> I don't have the desk space for a extra amp. I just want a amp/dac to replace the X7.






strife said:


> You could keep using the X7 as a dedicated DAC and hook it up to a headphone amp (many suggestions here), that is, unless the aforementioned negatives qualities of the X7 carry over to the line out connections. The Cavalli Liquid Carbon is what I use right now and I'm happy with it, there are plenty of them for sale right now and cheaper than ever. Others might suggest the Schiit Jotunheim as well, but could be a little too bright for the 800.





Agreed, using the X7's line-out is still a great solution, or connecting the Mojo to the X7's optical output and the Mojo to the Carbon is silly easy while still giving you every surround and connectivity benefit of the X7. The X7 even does a cool thing where the X7's headphone jack and Optical Out are active at the same time, so when I was testing the Burson v5i OpAmps I was able to almost instantly A/B test between the X7's headphone output and the Mojo+Carbon combo simply by plugging my headphone into either jack.




nikorasu said:


> Which Burson opAmp model are you talking about?




Here is my full review (testing with the HD800):
http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/390_30#post_13067175


----------



## fjrabon

Just wondering here, and could be good discussion fodder, but what part does everybody view as most vital to their HD800 chain (excepting the HD800, of course).   By most important I mean biggest difference between this piece and nearest potential replacement (within a reasonable similar cost range).  You know, that piece in your puzzle that really was the "aha moment" with your HD800.  And I mean anything: cable, amp, DAC, interconnect, software, line conditioner, etc.
  
 For me it would probably be Goodhertz CanOpener.  As much as I love the other individual pieces to the puzzle, the amp, DAC, cables, etc could all be replaced with very little loss to the overall end product.  But I've not found anything that comes close to CanOpener's crossfeed algorithm to me in creating a lifelike soundstage.  Even Sonarworks, I could painstakingly mostly recreate with EQ (it'd be clunky, but it could be done).  
  
 I'll go one step further and rank mine in order of most vital:
  
 1) Goodhertz CanOpener
 2) SonarWorks
 3) Torpedo III
 4) Modi Multibit (while easily replaceable if not improvable with something like Gumby, I'll give it a few bumps up because I'd probably have to quadruple (or more) its cost to even begin to satisfactorily replace it)
 5) GoodHertz Mid-Side
 6) Acrolink headphone cable (again, fairly easily replaceable but at greater cost)
 7) interconnects
 8) optical S/PIDF cable


----------



## Muffinhead

I just got the HD800's yesterday. My setup is: computer running foobar alac/flac----> generic USB cable to schiit modi (1st gen)---->rca out split with generic cables to Schiit Lyr2 in low gain modewith NOS Amperex 6DJ8 Orange Globes, and Schiit Magni 1st gen--->HD800's with stock or Cardas OCC silver cable. I think they sound quite amazing for what they try to do. Here are my impressions from the few hours I've put into listening: soundstage is wide, but honestly not as wide as I expected. Imaging is fantastic, and detail is superb; I can track every instrument and part that is going on. I mostly listen to rock, and I've found that they work best with acoustic guitar tracks; a lot of older rock doesn't sound very good in that it sounds hazy. They definitely do sound a lot different between the SS and tube hybrid. A lot grainier sounding with the Magni. The tubes really bring them to life and make the soundstage great. I did a bit of tube rolling between the aforementioned ones, Gold Lion E88CC's, LISST's and the stock 6BZ7 tubes. It seems that the stock tubes actually had the biggest soundstage. It may sound ridiculous, but I might like the stock tubes better than the NOS ones with the HD800, although the NOS do make them more musical and less analytical. I couldn't hear a difference between the cables; I might post the Cardas cable for sale here some time soon. I also have pre-fazor LCD2's, which I did some comparing with. Both headphones reproduce the same details, but the HD800's separation and presentation of them is vastly superior; very excellent when listening tracks with subtle detail. I found myself more inclined to look at each part of a song instead of listening to it as a whole, as I did with the LCD2's. Surprisingly, not all heavy rock tracks were better with the LCD2, at the very least, the HD800's did an equal job at reproducing some heavy tracks, but in a different way. Some tracks were clearly superior. The MTV unplugged Alice in Chains album sounded like I was at the performance - fantastic. Another one of my favorites is this track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0zLUARh8Q4 
 The meticulous production becomes very apparent with the HD800's. 
 Same with this song
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsYw-ER4h74
 I think I've found a duo of headphones that has brought me very close to audio nirvana. I won't be upgrading for a very long time.


----------



## icebear

fjrabon said:


> Just wondering here, and could be good discussion fodder, but what part does everybody view as most vital to their HD800 chain (excepting the HD800, of course).   By most important I mean biggest difference between this piece and nearest potential replacement (within a reasonable similar cost range).  You know, that piece in your puzzle that really was the "aha moment" with your HD800.  And I mean anything: cable, amp, DAC, interconnect, software, line conditioner, etc.
> ....


 
  
 My $0.02:
 The source is everything. The amp should be a wire with gain not to loose anything that comes from the source and it should feed it cleanly and controlled to the hp. The interconnects should not degrade the signal inbetween the pieces and not allow any interference to pollute the signal. The set up should be as simple as possible.
  
 For my music preference (jazz & classic) I have arrived and I have this set up since about 1 1/2 years.
 Marantz SA11S3-->Anticable XLR(Neutrik) --> Headamp GSX-Mk2 --> Norne Vanquish (Neutrik dual 3pin XLR) --> HD800


----------



## ruthieandjohn

For me it is the Sennheiser HDVD 800 DAC / amp.

I have coming to me as a Christmas gift a Chord Hugo, and I also have a Norne Draug 2 XLR cable coming, which may become corner-turning components in the future.


----------



## fjrabon

ruthieandjohn said:


> For me it is the Sennheiser HDVD 800 DAC / amp.
> 
> I have coming to me as a Christmas gift a Chord Hugo, and I also have a Norne Draug 2 XLR cable coming, which may become corner-turning components in the future.


 

 HDVD800 is so interesting to me.  Originally wildly overpriced, and not a true TOTL system (in most people's opinions, many of which were just because they refused to acknowledge a combo, solid state system with the HD800).  At some point it became underrated an a bargain on the used market.  That being said, I have a feeling you are going to love the Chord Hugo.  Quite the Christmas present.


icebear said:


> My $0.02:
> The source is everything. The amp should be a wire with gain not to loose anything that comes from the source and it should feed it cleanly and controlled to the hp. The interconnects should not degrade the signal inbetween the pieces and not allow any interference to pollute the signal. The set up should be as simple as possible.
> 
> For my music preference (jazz & classic) I have arrived and I have this set up since about 1 1/2 years.
> Marantz SA11S3-->Anticable XLR(Neutrik) --> Headamp GSX-Mk2 --> Norne Vanquish (Neutrik dual 3pin XLR) --> HD800


 

 Yeah, I theoretically agree with this.  I am certainly not personally a fan of trying to use amps, cables, etc to "fix" sound.  To me amps, cables, etc should just do their job as cleanly and purely as possible.  Now one thing I do think is often underconsidered by "amp is just a wire with gain" people is that there is going to be harmonic distortion, no matter what.  And the breakdown of that harmonic distortion matters as much, if not more, than the total amount.  So, that's where I do tend to often prefer tubes, because they have better THD breakdowns than similar quality solid state amps.  While a solid state amp might measure as having less overall THD, often its THD is concentrated in more "offensive" harmonics: higher order even harmonics.
  
 I do recorgnize that the HD800 is an, as is, flawed headphone.  The 6kHz peak, while some people may even like it, is not natural at all.  There is not a producer alive who made a record, and if they listened to it through an HD800 would say "that's exactly the tone I was after."  Except maybe BIlly Corgan that time he tried to make the most offensively bright album of all time.  So, you're left with either leaving "the simplest setup is best" world or just living with the HD800 being non-neutral.  Either way is certainly fine, and a matter of personal preference. But I don't think you can label either route as "purer" as one is closer to what the HD800 "naturally is" and one is closer to some sort of "what most producers intended the album to sound like." For me, the HD800 has strengths that no other headphone can match in their totality (soundstage, resolution, power handling, dynamic response- some headphones match the HD800 in some of these, but IMHO, no headphone matches it in ALL of them).  So it becomes a question of how do you "fix" those "flaws" the HD800 has, because I'm after a very neutral headphone.  I want as close as I can get to a world class speaker setup in my cans as possible, with maybe a tiny bit more resolution.  I totally get people wanting to fix it with an amp.  I tend to agree with you in that I want my amp to be as pure as possible, so I opted for about as neutral of a tube amp as you'll find.  That left me to "fix" the HD800's frequency response issue with EQ.  

 My other issue I have with the HD800, and it's an issue I have with all headphones, is that unless the track was mastered binaurally, the soundstage, even when it's great, won't sound "right" to me.  Because albums are mastered so that the stereo image comes together "midair" through speakers, to me, even the best soundstage headphones in the world suffer from a "disconnected" headstage, unless fixed with crossfeed.  The headphone that comes closest to alleviating this on its own is probably the K1000, because, well, it's designed to be sort of like nearfield monitors placed on your head.  The HD800's soundstage is immense, but on every setup I've ever heard that didn't include crossfeed, you still got the "left blob, center blob, right blob" soundstage.  The HD800 is startling in its ability to get those blobs out of your head, but it still can't weave them together into a cohesive whole without crossfeed.  So that's my second hat tip to "impurity" in my system.  But again, to me, it's to get back to what most producers "intended" the recording to sound like.  The only recordings that were mastered with headphones fully in mind are binaural recordings, everything else was mostly intended to be heard through speakers.

 Again, YMMV, JMHO, etc.


----------



## sanjeewasam

HD800 vs K812 vs Elear
  
 HD800 when properly amp > K812/ Elear (my opinion only)- more clear, better mids, highs, fast and not very thin sounding but thinner that other two, tight base, wide sound stage of all 3, more detailed, comfortable of all 3.
 K812- good in most gear. Chord Mojo is the best I have heard. Compared to HD800 better base and tad ticker, less clear and highs sparkles. Slight v shaped. Enjoyable with most of the recordings and even ok to be driven directly by PC for gaming or movies 
 Elear- if you like speakers- this is it. Different to K812/HD800 in that sense- more dynamic / in your head/ easy to satisfy - not detailed as other 2 
 HD800/K812 has so much common grounds - only difference is K812 is easy to satisfy.
  
 But for me HD800 is the king for me for my listening. That is why I am got Vio set up now (V281/V850) and will be getting balanced cables


----------



## Yoga

fjrabon said:


> Just wondering here, and could be good discussion fodder, but what part does everybody view as most vital to their HD800 chain (excepting the HD800, of course).   By most important I mean biggest difference between this piece and nearest potential replacement (within a reasonable similar cost range).  You know, that piece in your puzzle that really was the "aha moment" with your HD800.  And I mean anything: cable, amp, DAC, interconnect, software, line conditioner, etc.
> 
> For me it would probably be Goodhertz CanOpener.  As much as I love the other individual pieces to the puzzle, the amp, DAC, cables, etc could all be replaced with very little loss to the overall end product.  But I've not found anything that comes close to CanOpener's crossfeed algorithm to me in creating a lifelike soundstage.  Even Sonarworks, I could painstakingly mostly recreate with EQ (it'd be clunky, but it could be done).
> 
> ...


 

 Sonarworks + Phonitor X.
  
 See this post .

 Incredible.


----------



## icebear

fjrabon said:


> ...
> 
> I do recorgnize that the HD800 is an, as is, flawed headphone.  The 6kHz peak, while some people may even like it, is not natural at all.  There is not a producer alive who made a record, and if they listened to it through an HD800 would say "that's exactly the tone I was after."  Except maybe BIlly Corgan that time he tried to make the most offensively bright album of all time.  So, you're left with either leaving "the simplest setup is best" world or just living with the HD800 being non-neutral.  Either way is certainly fine, and a matter of personal preference.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I might just be lucky with my sample but I don't see a 6khz peak, no do I hear it.





  
 There is the Norwegian label 2L (Lyndberg Lund, I think) which produces exemplary recordings. Music selection might not be everybody's favorite but the sound quality is delectable. They use HD800 for monitoring their recordings. So I guess they know what they are doing and when they use the HD800 as a tool to do their job, it fits their purpose. I doubt they would use an inherently flawed tool.
  
 The "sound stage" is something that can be the well captured natural reverb of the recording space with all time delayed reflections from the walls and the direct sound from the musicians. If this is captured properly and not damaged by too much post processing and phase shift, then you can easily locate each sound source when listening to the record and it doesn't really matter too much if you listen via the HD800 or via speakers. On the other hand sound stage can be just a balance / mixing effect where the engineer puts the source from a specific track into the L/R spread. This is a completely artificial effect and these pieced together/assembled multi track recordings just sound strange via the HD800. So whatever your music preference is, the HD800 is not flawed (IMHO) in itself but it will reveal all flaws of the recording and the mixing process and this might often not be enjoyable.
  
 Besides that I obviously like the sound of my HD800, the characteristic out of your head imaging is something essential for me which I don't get in any other headphone.
  
 +1 on YMMV etc


----------



## icebear

fjrabon said:


> ...
> 
> I do recorgnize that the HD800 is an, as is, flawed headphone.  The 6kHz peak, while some people may even like it, is not natural at all.  There is not a producer alive who made a record, and if they listened to it through an HD800 would say "that's exactly the tone I was after."  Except maybe BIlly Corgan that time he tried to make the most offensively bright album of all time.  So, you're left with either leaving "the simplest setup is best" world or just living with the HD800 being non-neutral.  Either way is certainly fine, and a matter of personal preference.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I might just be lucky with my sample but I don't see a 6khz peak, no do I hear it.





  
 There is the Norwegian label 2L (Lyndberg Lund, I think) which produces exemplary recordings. Music selection might not be everybody's favorite but the sound quality is delectable. They use HD800 for monitoring their recordings. So I guess they know what they are doing and when they use the HD800 as a tool to do their job, it fits their purpose. I doubt they would use an inherently flawed tool.
  
 The "sound stage" is something that can be the well captured natural reverb of the recording space with all time delayed reflections from the walls and the direct sound from the musicians. If this is captured properly and not damaged by too much post processing and phase shift, then you can easily locate each sound source when listening to the record and it doesn't really matter too much if you listen via the HD800 or via speakers. On the other hand sound stage can be just a balance / mixing effect where the engineer puts the source from a specific track into the L/R spread. This is a completely artificial effect and these pieced together/assembled multi track recordings just sound strange via the HD800. So whatever your music preference is, the HD800 is not flawed (IMHO) in itself but it will reveal all flaws of the recording and the mixing process and this might often not be enjoyable.
  
 Besides that I obviously like the sound of my HD800, the characteristic out of your head imaging is something essential for me which I don't get in any other headphone.
  
 +1 on YMMV etc


----------



## fjrabon

icebear said:


> I might just be lucky with my sample but I don't see a 6khz peak, no do I hear it.


 
 well, that graph just shows that the HD800 has roughly the signature it was designed to sound.  Mine looks like that too.  It doesn't really mean much, except in comparison to other HD800s.  It's pretty well established that Sennheiser's reference curves for those graphs don't match established compensation curves.
  


> The "sound stage" is something that can be the well captured natural reverb of the recording space with all time delayed reflections from the walls and the direct sound from the musicians. If this is captured properly and not damaged by too much post processing and phase shift, then you can easily locate each sound source when listening to the record and it doesn't really matter too much if you listen via the HD800 or via speakers. On the other hand sound stage can be just a balance / mixing effect where the engineer puts the source from a specific track into the L/R spread. This is a completely artificial effect and these pieced together/assembled multi track recordings just sound strange via the HD800. So whatever your music preference is, the HD800 is not flawed (IMHO) in itself but it will reveal all flaws of the recording and the mixing process and this might often not be enjoyable.


 
 It certainly does matter if you're listening to headphones or speakers, regardless of how it was recorded.  Soundstage is absolutely always impacted by the difference between your ears hearing each channel in isolation (headphones) vs a mixture and through HRTF transfers (speakers).  This is why binaural recordings sound "off" through speakers, because they were designed for headphones.  Now, some people actually like the way headphone soundstage on non-binaural recordings sounds, but it is necessarily different than how soundstage is perceived through speakers.  Which you like better is a matter of preference, and some people may be indifferent, but saying "it doesn't really matter if you listen via the HD800 or speakers" is simply incorrect.


----------



## Me x3

Different compensation / measuring technique = different FR plot
 Different listener (shape/hearing) = different perceived FR as well
  
 +1 with regards to 2L Recordings


----------



## Caguioa

hey guys soo i am trying to get good price on 800, should i jump to 800s or settle with 800?
  
 as 800 drop to 1k$


----------



## fjrabon

caguioa said:


> hey guys soo i am trying to get good price on 800, should i jump to 800s or settle with 800?
> 
> as 800 drop to 1k$




If you're willing to mod or EQ the HD800 (or just prefer the way it sounds as is) it's a much better deal. But to most people people the HD800S does sound better "straight out of the box."


----------



## ray-dude

caguioa said:


> hey guys soo i am trying to get good price on 800, should i jump to 800s or settle with 800?
> 
> as 800 drop to 1k$




Used hd800's can be had for about $700. $25 SR Mod takes about 5 minutes to install. Absolutely fantastic deal, and not losing anything to the HD800s (except the balanced cable). Couldn't be happier with mine!


----------



## thecrow

coltmrfire said:


> Sorry.


That being said i shall a have listen to that (porgy and bess) album, hopefully soon


----------



## thecrow

fjrabon said:


> If you're willing to mod or EQ the HD800 (or just prefer the way it sounds as is) it's a much better deal. But to most people people the HD800S does sound better "straight out of the box."



I mean that with all due respect and light humour

i do love my treble but out of the box i easily preferred putting up with the brighter hd800 than the less true bottom end and toned down top end that i felt the hd800s had


----------



## Yoga

ray-dude said:


> Used hd800's can be had for about $700. $25 SR Mod takes about 5 minutes to install.


 

 Can you point me in the direction of this mod please?


----------



## jibzilla

fjrabon said:


> HDVD800 is so interesting to me.  Originally wildly overpriced, and not a true TOTL system (in most people's opinions, many of which were just because they refused to acknowledge a combo, solid state system with the HD800).  At some point it became underrated an a bargain on the used market.  That being said, I have a feeling you are going to love the Chord Hugo.  Quite the Christmas present.
> 
> Yeah, I theoretically agree with this.  I am certainly not personally a fan of trying to use amps, cables, etc to "fix" sound.  To me amps, cables, etc should just do their job as cleanly and purely as possible.  Now one thing I do think is often underconsidered by "amp is just a wire with gain" people is that there is going to be harmonic distortion, no matter what.  And the breakdown of that harmonic distortion matters as much, if not more, than the total amount.  So, that's where I do tend to often prefer tubes, because they have better THD breakdowns than similar quality solid state amps.  While a solid state amp might measure as having less overall THD, often its THD is concentrated in more "offensive" harmonics: higher order even harmonics.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Have you tried a copper cable? I'm usually not a fan of going this route but it really seems to help out the hd800. EQing is cool but I have always found some give and take. My btg copper cable really helped to tame the highs.
  
 As far as head-stage goes good luck. The hd800 tackles this area better than any other headphone I have tried but still not quite the same. Like I said earlier a TT/CD player and some speakers. The hd800/Teton is pretty damn close to speakers but quite pricey. The hd800 has a layering ability with that amp that gets rid of the blob's and the treble peak for that matter but at the expense of a little transparency. The Ravenswood is a bit more in head but the hd800 is a bit more transparent as well. I got both amps though for their amazing dynamic, detailed and refined sound before head-stage, the Teton was just kind of a bonus in that area. I know you think binaural is best for headphones but I have quite a few records and cd's that have a really nice head-stage with the hd-800.


----------



## MWSVette

yoga said:


> Can you point me in the direction of this mod please?


 
 SR mod (full name of mod "SuperDupont Resonator") maker is @Sorrodje


----------



## MattTCG

@fjrabon I would loan you my Draug 2c if you like to evaluate the potential of a well designed copper cable.


----------



## fjrabon

jibzilla said:


> Have you tried a copper cable? I'm usually not a fan of going this route but it really seems to help out the hd800. EQing is cool but I have always found some give and take. My btg copper cable really helped to tame the highs.
> 
> As far as head-stage goes good luck. The hd800 tackles this area better than any other headphone I have tried but still not quite the same. Like I said earlier a TT/CD player and some speakers. The hd800/Teton is pretty damn close to speakers but quite pricey. The hd800 has a layering ability with that amp that gets rid of the blob's and the treble peak for that matter but at the expense of a little transparency. The Ravenswood is a bit more in head but the hd800 is a bit more transparent as well. I got both amps though for their amazing dynamic, detailed and refined sound before head-stage, the Teton was just kind of a bonus in that area. I know you think binaural is best for headphones but I have quite a few records and cd's that have a really nice head-stage with the hd-800.


 

 yes, I have a copper cable.  Using an industry standard compensation curve, the HD800 measures as having about 7dB too much energy at 6kHz.  No cable is going to take out 6dB without causing serious degradation to the sound otherwise.  A cable would literally have to be faulty to take out more than 1-2 dB at a given frequency.
  
 It's not that I think binaural is "best" for headphones, it's just that those are the only albums specifically recorded *for* headphones.  Non-binaural can sound great on headphones.  

 I'm pretty happy with the crossfeed solution I'm using, it gives headstage that's similar to binaural recordings to "normally" recorded stuff.  Really the only last missing piece is something that dynamically responds to micro-head movements, but that's science fiction *at the moment*


matttcg said:


> @fjrabon I would loan you my Draug 2c if you like to evaluate the potential of a well designed copper cable.


 
 thanks Matt, I'm pretty happy with my cable, but I'd definitely try yours out at one of our meets.


----------



## fjrabon

thecrow said:


> I mean that with all due respect and light humour
> 
> i do love my treble but out of the box i easily preferred putting up with the brighter hd800 than the less true bottom end and toned down top end that i felt the hd800s had


 

 sure, that's why I said "most" 
  
 some people love 6 kHz ripping their face off.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

yoga said:


> Can you point me in the direction of this mod please?


 
  
 Send a PM to @Sorrodje.
  
 It is the best thing to ever happen to HD800's.


----------



## ray-dude

bigfatpaulie said:


> Send a PM to @Sorrodje.
> 
> It is the best thing to ever happen to HD800's.


 
  
@Yoga Check out the following review/videos to get a great overview of the differences between the HD800 and HD800s, as well as detail on the mod, how to install, and what it does for you.
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sennheiser-hd-800-s-tweaked-and-delightfuland-french-diy-response
  
 +1000 that @Sorrodje is the man!  I purchased my SR Mod from him directly, but he also details out how to make them yourself (you can also find some people on eBay that sell them).  $25 all in if you want someone else to make them for you, less that 5 minutes to install, and trivial to remove if you don't like it or messed it up (lots of videos on YouTube...takes all the uncertainty out of it)  
  
 Great thing is that you can put all the money you save into the rest of your setup.  You can pick up a nice used HD800, SRMod, a really nice parametric EQ (DMG EQuilibrium, etc) to play with the low end, and a real nice DAC/amp (I love my Mojo because of the quality and portability, but there are great desktop amp/DAC combos as well) for less than the price of a new HD800s.   
  
 No matter which direction you go, the HD800(s) are a  heck of a lot of fun...you're going to really enjoy how they open up your music catalog for you, and how tweakable they are (yeah, I may have a little EQ tweaking problem with my HD800SR's


----------



## Yoga

ray-dude said:


> @Yoga Check out the following review/videos to get a great overview of the differences between the HD800 and HD800s, as well as detail on the mod, how to install, and what it does for you.
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sennheiser-hd-800-s-tweaked-and-delightfuland-french-diy-response
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks! I may skip this however as I use Sonarworks; this mod will affect the profile.

 Just to re-iterate; the Matrix function on the Phonitor X is incredible. With any headphone! SWR3 + Phonitor 2/X = amazing.


----------



## ray-dude

yoga said:


> Thanks! I may skip this however as I use Sonarworks; this mod will affect the profile.
> 
> Just to re-iterate; the Matrix function on the Phonitor X is incredible. With any headphone! SWR3 + Phonitor 2/X = amazing.


 
  
 I haven't tried the Phonitor but have added it to the audition list (thanks!)
  
 I was able to do extensive A/B/C of a HD800SR (modded) no EQ vs a stock HD800 with the Sonarworks profile vs HD800SR with EQ to give a gentle bass boost.  In that situation, I preferred the stock HD800 with the Sonarworks to the HD800SR with no EQ because of the bass extension.  However, I preferred the HD800SR with EQ to the HD800 + SonarWorks.  I found the mids and highs a bit more natural, and I appreciated having the flexibility to tweak the low end to get the tonal balance I was interested in.
  
 To my considerable surprise, I'm having fun tweaking the EQ profiles with the HD800SR. The HD800 is so damn detailed and revealing (esp. with the Mojo), that it has been a great learning experience with me to be playing with the spectrum analyzers and EQ settings, and really seeing how tweaks to different frequency ranges impact how much I enjoy different pieces.
  
 That being said, for "fire and forget", the Sonarworks profile and the HD800 is tremendous.  Highly recommended to just enjoy the music.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

fjrabon said:


> ...Really the only last missing piece is something that dynamically responds to micro-head movements, but that's science fiction *at the moment*
> thanks Matt, I'm pretty happy with my cable, but I'd definitely try yours out at one of our meets.



The Smythe Realiser places an inertial sensor on top of the headband and uses real time digital signal processing to keep the soundstage stationary in the face of micro head movements. Or so I understand (never heard one).


----------



## Yoga

ray-dude said:


> I haven't tried the Phonitor but have added it to the audition list (thanks!)
> 
> I was able to do extensive A/B/C of a HD800SR (modded) no EQ vs a stock HD800 with the Sonarworks profile vs HD800SR with EQ to give a gentle bass boost.  In that situation, I preferred the stock HD800 with the Sonarworks to the HD800SR with no EQ because of the bass extension.  However, I preferred the HD800SR with EQ to the HD800 + SonarWorks.  I found the mids and highs a bit more natural, and I appreciated having the flexibility to tweak the low end to get the tonal balance I was interested in.
> 
> ...


 

 Sounds like you're having fun :¬)

 I'm very—pleasantly—surprised as to how scalable the HD800 are. They now sound _absolutely nothing_ like stock!

 As I'm using them professionally in the studio, the constant base/point of reference with SW3 is perfect. I can't start EQ'ing headphones halfway through a mix, that could be disastrous. For the consumer like yourself who likes to maximise the SR Mod + EQ is perfect.

 (I'd be doing that myself!)


----------



## Yoga

<double post>


----------



## Ani1000

Hi, looking for a portable DAC/amp for the HD800, portable in a sense that i can move around the house with it, I don't plan on taking it out of the house. 
I don't have or want a desktop DAC/amp and i plan not to upgrade for a few years, so it must be good
Looking at the the Chord Mojo, but have read several times it is "warm sounding" and i love ultra neutral sound, so I'm not so sure anymore. 
What would you recommend for About the same price of the Mojo? Would like to keep it at a about 500$ thanks.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Consider the CEntrance HiFiM8. Plenty of power, digital input from Apple Lightening, USB, coax, optical (depending on version), and LMH tone switches. Also selectable output impedance (1, 2, and 10 ohms).


----------



## Zoom25

I broke out the HD 800 for the night after a long time while going to bed and wearing without glasses. I noticed my earcup positioning is different with vs. without glasses. So how do you guys prefer to wear the HD 800. The earcups are so massive, that you can play around with the earcups for sound tuning purposes.


----------



## Sorrodje

ani1000 said:


> Hi, looking for a portable DAC/amp for the HD800, portable in a sense that i can move around the house with it, I don't plan on taking it out of the house.
> I don't have or want a desktop DAC/amp and i plan not to upgrade for a few years, so it must be good
> Looking at the the Chord Mojo, but have read several times it is "warm sounding" and i love ultra neutral sound, so I'm not so sure anymore.
> What would you recommend for About the same price of the Mojo? Would like to keep it at a about 500$ thanks.





Geek out 2A. I have the Gov2 and the result with the hd800 is astonishing. Especially in balanced mode.


----------



## ColtMrFire

zoom25 said:


> I broke out the HD 800 for the night after a long time while going to bed and wearing without glasses. I noticed my earcup positioning is different with vs. without glasses. So how do you guys prefer to wear the HD 800. The earcups are so massive, that you can play around with the earcups for sound tuning purposes.




I can hear the most minute cable changes, but I cant hear a damn bit of difference by the position of the earcups. Unless they are all the way back.


----------



## hydesg

Where can i buy the superdupont kit?


----------



## Rozenberg

hydesg said:


> Where can i buy the superdupont kit?


 
 Contact @Sorrodje


----------



## thecrow

fjrabon said:


> sure, that's why I said "most"
> 
> some people love 6 kHz ripping their face off.


Lol


----------



## fjrabon

ruthieandjohn said:


> The Smythe Realiser places an inertial sensor on top of the headband and uses real time digital signal processing to keep the soundstage stationary in the face of micro head movements. Or so I understand (never heard one).


 

 yeah, me and Tyll talked a bit about it when he was in Atlanta.  I'm interested to see one, I'm skeptical at this point, but I've never seen one in the wild or even talked to somebody who has one.


----------



## hydesg

Looks like i need to upgrade my dac to the yggdrasil.
Am using the hd800 into a questyle cma800r with stock cables.

The current geek xfi dac sounds too bright in the treble.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Yggy is special stuff.


----------



## Rozenberg

hydesg said:


> Looks like i need to upgrade my dac to the yggdrasil.
> Am using the hd800 into a questyle cma800r with stock cables.
> 
> The current geek xfi dac sounds too bright in the treble.


 
 Or rather, maybe the CMA800R is bright?
 I don't know how you feel though but I've heard the 800R monoblocks since I was actually interested in that system, and just around 2 weeks ago I had the chance to audition them using my own HD800 and own music.
 I think they had nice separation and soundstage, but at the same time made the sound kinda thin or possibly what I would call brighter too.
 Take my impression with a grain of salt though.


----------



## MattTCG

rozenberg said:


> Or rather, maybe the CMA800R is bright?
> I don't know how you feel though but I've heard the 800R monoblocks since I was actually interested in that system, and just around 2 weeks ago I had the chance to audition them using my own HD800 and own music.
> I think they had nice separation and soundstage, but at the same time made the sound kinda thin or possibly what I would call brighter too.
> Take my impression with a grain of salt though.


 
  
 I wouldn't call the cma800r bright by any means. It's actually very "lush" for a SS amp. I'm looking for a second to go back to dual mono.


----------



## hydesg

rozenberg said:


> Or rather, maybe the CMA800R is bright?
> I don't know how you feel though but I've heard the 800R monoblocks since I was actually interested in that system, and just around 2 weeks ago I had the chance to audition them using my own HD800 and own music.
> I think they had nice separation and soundstage, but at the same time made the sound kinda thin or possibly what I would call brighter too.
> Take my impression with a grain of salt though.




Are you using silver cables?
I was and it was excessively bright, and ive now switched back to stock.


----------



## Ani1000

Thanks for the help friends. 
By the way what is the current highest serial number of HD800(non S version) , should i ask the shop for the highest # as it supposed to sound better than the old ones?


----------



## Yoga

ani1000 said:


> Thanks for the help friends.
> By the way what is the current highest serial number of HD800(non S version) , should i ask the shop for the highest # as it supposed to sound better than the old ones?


 

 No idea. Mine are the newer model with SN 44XXX however if that helps.


----------



## Ani1000

Thanks! 
Wow Sennheiser has Sold A lot Of Them (;
I must say they are the bargain of the high end world. 
Good build quality, world class sound quality, reliability, as a complete package no headphone can touch it. 
Not to mention the famous soundstage which has ruined just about any other headphone for me.
Had in the past 2 HD800, 2 akg k1000, k701, k550, grado sr80. 
I liked the HD800 the most, they dissappear and leave you with the music, i let my cousin who is not an audiophile to try them, he was blown away, he said"its like im in the studio"!


----------



## Yoga

ani1000 said:


> Thanks!
> Wow Sennheiser has Sold A lot Of Them (;
> I must say they are the bargain of the high end world.
> Good build quality, world class sound quality, reliability, as a complete package no headphone can touch it.
> ...


 

 Broken record mode - but if you've not, try Sonarworks Reference 3. Transforms the HD 800 for the better.
  
 I'll shut up about it now (for a bit) :¬)


----------



## Ani1000

haha thanks for the reminder (@:
Will definitely try
Still intrigued at how the T1 gen2 compares to HD800 but i can't audition them so don't want to gamble. 
They look less open than HD800 and that leads me to belive they are less transparent and soundstage is smaller, but i might be wrong. 
I really like the T1's build quality, they look more solid than HD800.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I won't have the AKG/HD800 symphonic comparison done before the new year, but I'm actively soliciting works to a/b, should there be any.


----------



## Svatopluk

ani1000 said:


> Thanks!
> Wow Sennheiser has Sold A lot Of Them (;
> I must say they are the bargain of the high end world.
> Good build quality, world class sound quality, reliability, as a complete package no headphone can touch it.
> ...


 
 After six years of HD800 ownership their not going anywhere. In my opinion with the right amp you can't beat the HD800 for classical and symphonic metal or anything else that requires a large soundstage.
  
 Utopia may be good but it can be a little compressed on some of the more complicated spacious stuff.


----------



## nvfan

svatopluk said:


> After six years of HD800 ownership their not going anywhere. In my opinion with the right amp you can't beat the HD800 for classical and symphonic metal or anything else that requires a large soundstage.
> 
> Utopia may be good but it can be a little compressed on some of the more complicated spacious stuff.




I wonder how much of that is caused by dome (round sound waves which compress when they approach the ear) vs ring radiator of the HD800 (flat sound wave), and how much of that is due to the HD800 driver sitting recessed in a concave cup whereas the Utopia is like a speaker with the driver sitting flush with the baffle.


----------



## johnjen

zoom25 said:


> I broke out the HD 800 for the night after a long time while going to bed and wearing without glasses. I noticed my earcup positioning is different with vs. without glasses. So how do you guys prefer to wear the HD 800. The earcups are so massive, that you can play around with the earcups for sound tuning purposes.


 
 As a general rule I move the 800's forward so that the earcups touch the back of my ears.
 Then I rotate the headband so it rests on the forward half of the top of my head, then move the earcups back so that they don't touch my ears anymore.
  
 JJ


----------



## pervysage

I don't get it. How are programs (or I guess they are plug-ins?) like Sonarworks and equalizer programs supposed to be used? Do you need some kind of software to run them? I am pretty new to this whole thing.
  
 So far I downloading a couple programs like Sonarworks Reference 3 and DMG Audio EQuilibrium and they both just installed a bunch of folders on my computer with various .dll and plug in files. I am not seeing any of the GUI's that people have been posting.
  
 I thought it was as simple as downloading the program and running the .exe


----------



## mysticstryk

svatopluk said:


> After six years of HD800 ownership their not going anywhere. In my opinion with the right amp you can't beat the HD800 for classical and symphonic metal or anything else that requires a large soundstage.
> 
> Utopia may be good but it can be a little compressed on some of the more complicated spacious stuff.




Hey, someone else using their 800 for symphonic metal! I never really cared for my 800 with metal until I used Sonarworks. Now with my Sonett, no EQ required. Kamelot and Epica have never sounded so good until now. 



pervysage said:


> I don't get it. How are programs (or I guess they are plug-ins?) like Sonarworks and equalizer programs supposed to be used? Do you need some kind of software to run them? I am pretty new to this whole thing.
> 
> So far I downloading a couple programs like Sonarworks Reference 3 and DMG Audio EQuilibrium and they both just installed a bunch of folders on my computer with various .dll and plug in files. I am not seeing any of the GUI's that people have been posting.
> 
> I thought it was as simple as downloading the program and running the .exe




It depends on the media player you are using on your computer. Google: how to setup Sonarworks in ____. 

I found it rather annoying to setup in Mediamonkey and MusicBee, so I switched to JRiver and it loaded right up once I directed the correct folder path.


----------



## fjrabon

So I'm getting a Focal Utopia for about 6 hours today to demo. I have to drive to one of our remote offices to be there for IT people. So, no internet, nothing else to do. This could be very bad for my wallet.

will post comparisons later.


----------



## Astral Abyss

mysticstryk said:


> Hey, someone else using their 800 for symphonic metal! I never really cared for my 800 with metal until I used Sonarworks. Now with my Sonett, no EQ required. Kamelot and Epica have never sounded so good until now.


 
  
 Solitaire/Rule the World is one of the songs I use to test my headphones when I'm checking out a new setup.  It's quite demanding.


----------



## Ani1000

Waiting for your impressions and comparison with HD800, i can't afford the Utopia but it's nice to read ^_^


fjrabon said:


> So I'm getting a Focal Utopia for about 6 hours today to demo. I have to drive to one of our remote offices to be there for IT people. So, no internet, nothing else to do. This could be very bad for my wallet.
> 
> will post comparisons later.


----------



## Ani1000

Has anyone compared the GO2A to chord mojo as DAC/amp with HD800?


----------



## ColtMrFire

When I demoed Utopia briefly (on my Jot/Mimby setup), it was mesmerizing.  There was an insane level of detail and musicality even the 800 can't match.  But the biggest plus was the tone.  It just sounded...right.  Supremely sophisticated levels of dynamics as well, it got the notes in between the notes.  And it sounds effortless.  I still don't think they're worth $4K.  It's a ludicrous amount to ask for a headphone that is only _slightly_ better than the HD800 (except soundstage), I don't care how good it is.  Diminishing returns is a real thing after the $500 mark.
  
 My only complaint is the soundstage felt a little congested and they are NOT comfortable to wear.


----------



## Sorrodje

Yup. Bought the Utopia , Received it in November and sold it in december.  It didn't convince me enough to justify the price and I liked it but didn't love it. Good headphone but not for me


----------



## Arniesb

sorrodje said:


> Yup. Bought the Utopia , Received it in November and sold it in december.  It didn't convince me enough to justify the price and I liked it but didn't love it. Good headphone but not for me


I always hear everywhere how dynamic, energetic and engaging Utopia is. Maybe it was too energetic?


----------



## Sorrodje

Nah. I never reached the point where I could forget the way the Utopia is tuned. This and the small headstage . I never enjoyed my music as much as I do with some other headphones .  it does not mean I think it's a bad headphone. Seems it's not my thing. That's it. At least , I had it at home for a few weeks , around 100 hours of listening. I had enough time to make my own opinion. and it's only MY opinion.


----------



## Yoga

sorrodje said:


> Nah. I never reached the point where I could forget the way the Utopia is tuned. This and the small headstage . I never enjoyed my music as much as I do with some other headphones .  it does not mean I think it's a bad headphone. Seems it's not my thing. That's it. At least , I had it at home for a few weeks , around 100 hours of listening. I had enough time to make my own opinion. and it's only MY opinion.


 

 I've not heard the Utopia (yet) but the small soundstage is a big minus for me. Being used to the Abyss and HD800, anything else just sounds compressed and far less _immersive_.


----------



## ubs28

The Focal utopia doesn't sound compressed. Atleast not on my setup.


----------



## Ani1000

How much worst is the HD800 compared to the Abyss? 
Another headphone i will be never able to afford )@:


yoga said:


> I've not heard the Utopia (yet) but the small soundstage is a big minus for me. Being used to the Abyss and HD800, anything else just sounds compressed and far less _immersive_.


----------



## Yoga

ubs28 said:


> The Focal utopia doesn't sound compressed. Atleast not on my setup.


 

 Have you heard the Abyss?
  
 *Anything* sounds compressed by comparison, and the HD800 has a large soundstage. Larger than HEK, Focal, LCD, AKG - any of them really.
  
 While the Utopia may not sound compressed to _you_, it will to _me_.


----------



## Yoga

ani1000 said:


> How much worst is the HD800 compared to the Abyss?
> Another headphone i will be never able to afford )@:


 

 The Abyss are a different beast, it's hard to explain. You're in the sound rather than it being pushed into both L/R ears. You sit with the performers, rather than in front of them.
  
 They have an inky black background and massive dynamic power, so the sounds pop out at you. _Immersive._
  
 Try and get a loan/demo of the Phonitor 2, X or E. Their Matrix system is game changer for me, it brings a bit of the Abyss to any headphone. When enabled it really does add space to the sound. 

 Have a look:

 https://spl.info/en/products/professional-fidelity-pro-fi/phonitor-x/overview.html

 Grab the manual (right hand side) and have a read about their Matrix tech. I was expecting it to be a gimmick (I was more interested in the power; 120v rails), but it blew me away! Subtle but significant.


----------



## ubs28

yoga said:


> Have you heard the Abyss?
> 
> *Anything* sounds compressed by comparison, and the HD800 has a large soundstage. Larger than HEK, Focal, LCD, AKG - any of them really.
> 
> While the Utopia may not sound compressed to _you_, it will to _me_.




The HD 800 has a wider soundstage than most speakers also. Focal might have done this on purpose since I assume they try to come as close to speakers as possible.

If the Utopia sounds compressed, then the problem is the equipment used.


----------



## Yoga

ubs28 said:


> The HD 800 has a wider soundstage than most speakers also. Focal might have done this on purpose since I assume they try to come as close to speakers as possible.
> 
> If the Utopia sounds compressed, then the problem is the equipment used.


 
  
 1) You're assuming that wider = problem.
  
 2) You're generalising speakers.

 3) I've made it quite clear it's _my_ preference.

 4) The HD800 emulate the soundstage when producing/mixing with near/mid field monitors.

 Enjoy your Utopias! I'll buy a pair this week if I like them, should be hearing them tomorrow.

 Adios.


----------



## fjrabon

Just got done with my Utopia demo.  Wow.  
  
 I'll say first, they're the best sounding "out of the box" headphones I've ever heard.  BY A LONG SHOT.  Like nothing else is even close.  What I mean by that is their ability to come straight out, without needing to tailor a system around them, and sound jaw droppingly good is stunning.  They sounded better out of the headphone jack of my iPhone than an HD800 sounds out of a lot of mediocre setups I've heard at meets.
  
 Without crossfeed I even preferred the Utopia's soundstage.  It, while not huge, was much more "realistic and cohesive" of a soundstage to my ears.  It sounded like a medium sized jazz club.  Or, in another manner of thinking, it kind of sounded like you were sitting a little too close to premium quality speakers.  There was this sensation of being just inside the sweetspot of a great speaker setup.  The HD800, by comparison, sounds kind of like listening to ultra high quality nearfield monitors that are setup too far apart.  
  
 dynamic punch was a draw to me.  The Utopia was a bit overexcited at times, whereas the HD800 always sounded right to me.  Take note that the TorpedoIII is an ultra-dynamic amp once maxed out.  
  
 frequency response, unaltered, was no contest.  THe utopia had a sense of balance that while not 100% neutral, was much more "natural" than the HD800.  It maybe came off a bit U-shaped, but with no peaks whatsoever, just a very gentle U curve similar to most high quality speaker rigs.  Bass was delicious, mids were sweet, and treble was present and extended without ever being in your face.
  
 detail was mostly a draw.  
  
 Now, when I compared the Utopia to my HD800 optimized in my system, I still prefered the HD800.  The soudnstage was a bit more immersive when crossfeed was applied.  THe utopia also benefitted from crossfeed, but not to the extent the HD800 did.  The plug-in I use for widening soundstage helped the Utopia quite a bit, as I was able to expand the width, and pushes the sides away, to get more of a flat, large stage with the Utopia than it's stock "hemispherical" stage.  But the HD800 was still better.  After applying sonarworks, the Utopia's advantage in frequency response went away, and they pulled into a dead heat.  Further, with the TorpedoIII, the Utopia may have almost been *too* punchy.  It sounded better in some ways with the Grace m9XX than it did with the TIII.  At one point I put the iDAC6 (which has a very punchy output stage to it) with the TopredoIII and Utopia.  I put on the new Metallica album and it basically exploded out of the system.  It could be fun, but it gave me difficulty in finding the right volume level.  I'd say it was a bit fatiguing in that setup.  Not harsh at all, but just so punchy that it almost wore your eardrums out.  
  
 HD800 also won on comfort, though I wouldn't call the Utopia uncomfortable by any means.
  
 Putting this all together, I think Utopia is probably "objectively" a better headphone.  It's a bit unfair to compare it to a system I've spent about a year optimizing for the HD800.  But the HD800 was able to surpass it by a hair when placed in that optimized system.  If I put the same effort into optimizing a system for the Utopia? Maybe it nudges back ahead, or maybe it doesn't.  But to me the biggest strength of the Utopia is that it doesn't really need to be optimized in the way the HD800 does.  It just goes, straight out, and blows you away.  I have some doubts on the Utopia "scaling" with really exotic amps.  To my ears it sounds like it just needs a clean, low output impedance amp.  Nothing particularly fancy.  Now maybe when people do more experimenting, some heretefore unimaginable synergy will pop up with some amps.  It does benefit from a great DAC.  WHile I had the option of borrowing a Yggy for this test, that ended up not really being an option because it would have had to wait 4 days to warm up, lol.  Instead I was able to compare it using the DAC on my iPhone, the Dragonfly Red, iDAC6, AudioEngine D1 m9XX and Modi Multibit.  It really shined with the Modi Multibit, lovingly reproducing all the microdetail the ModiMultibit could feed it.  The small flaws of the DAC on the Dragonfly Red were immediately apparent ( a bit oversharpened edges and a flat soundstage) in comparison to the better DACs.  The iDAC6, like mentioned above, was almost too punch for the Utopia unless paired with a less punchy amp.  It sounded Sublime with the m9XX while also pointing out the way the m9XX does smooth over a few microdetails (in comparison to a top line R2R DAC, the m9XX is still near the top in terms of Delta Sigma DACs).  But the Utopia was thoroughly enjoyable, if not astounding out of EVERYTHING.  
  
 Again, I'm not exagerating when I say the Utopia straight out of an iPhone sounds better than a LOT of HD800 setups I've heard.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Great review.  Utopia definitely had a warm, inviting tone that was very captivating.


----------



## RogerWilco

Bravo fjrabon  , Very nice review !


----------



## Yoga

Nice comparison. It's pretty mental how scalable the HD800 are. Can't wait to compare!


----------



## ColtMrFire

On another note, the HD800 is really making me seek out more vocal music.  It gives the human voice so much more realism and detail than I'm used to, and really displays the talent alot of these vocalists have.  I listen to Sinatra alot more than I usually do.  The guy had an amazing voice.  The older singers are more impressive, because there wasn't any digital processing or added sibilance.  Sounds alot more natural.


----------



## RogerWilco

I agree ColtMrFire


----------



## Ani1000

A Moon Shaped Pool must sound amazing on the HD800, can't wait to get my pair ^_^


----------



## ColtMrFire

I tried that the other day, but could not get through it.  Sounded amazing, just not a fan of the album.  Which is weird, because I'm a big Radiohead fan.


----------



## MacedonianHero

coltmrfire said:


> Great review.  Utopia definitely had a warm, inviting tone that was very captivating.


 


 I would say the Utopia's are spot on neutral and warm when compared to the brighter HD800.


----------



## Ani1000

The HD800 do sound closest to active studio monitors, i have the Neumann KH120 which are superb by the way, and they sound pretty similar. 
It's a polarizing type of sound, you either like it or hate it, i hated the Grado sound (no offense to anyone) as it sounded too "romantic snd warm", it's musical for sure but not enjoyable to me. 
Extreme clarity and detail level is what i find most enjoyable.


----------



## MacedonianHero

ani1000 said:


> The HD800 do sound closest to active studio monitors, i have the Neumann KH120 which are superb by the way, and they sound pretty similar.
> It's a polarizing type of sound, you either like it or hate it, i hated the Grado sound (no offense to anyone) as it sounded too "romantic snd warm", it's musical for sure but not enjoyable to me.
> Extreme clarity and detail level is what i find most enjoyable.


 
 Your studio monitors do not have that 6kHz spike...that's the issue with the HD800 headphones. I owned them for 6+ years but the last couple I ended up avoiding so many recordings because I could go cross eyed. The HD800S have "fixed" this, but the Utopia are the most "neutral" that I've heard/owned. Sound staging, nothing beats the HD800/HD800S (not even the Abyss...which have some other issues that really hold them back for me).


----------



## ColtMrFire

I haven't been bothered by that 6khz spike.  I barely notice it at all.


----------



## Svatopluk

ubs28 said:


> The Focal utopia doesn't sound compressed. Atleast not on my setup.


 
 I think I'm the one who originally stated the Utopia sounds compressed compared to the HD800. And perhaps I exaggerated a little so let me explain myself.
  
 Orchestras are large and spread out. With symphonic metal, you may have a choir added along with the bands guitars, percussion and lead singer so there can be a lot going on at one time. My personal preference for such material is a headphone that can emulate more space and spread things out like the HD800. The Utopia is wonderful for everything else.
  
 The Utopia has great detail, tone and separation, you can hear everything so it's not really compressed. Everything's just confined to a slightly smaller area.


----------



## nvfan

I wonder if a 2-way coaxial driver would work for headphones. It seems like headphones all have a major issue of random frequency spikes due to a single driver being tasked with the entire 1-20KHz range (a high end reference monitor will generally target +/- 1db across 40Hz-20KHz, whereas even totl headphones it's not unusual for 10+ db spikes across the audible band). Maybe a high end hybrid headphone with a planar driver for bass and a dynamic driver for mids and highs would be ideal?


----------



## Sorrodje

I don't Think Utopia or HD800 offer a speaker like soundstage. They're headphones with headphone like soundstage. Both sound "unnatural" compared to speakers. But it makes sense considering very few recordings are made for headphones right ? Utopia"s headstage is closer to the head and that's it imo.  I don't think the Focal images better than the HD800 either. I spent hours to compare and test different tracks to check that. 
  
 About the tonality. I completely see how a few totl headphones are now tuned to sound like Hi End speakers. it's what I call  the kind "HIFI" sound they want to achieve. Something that reminds Speakers. And I got why some people like it but it seems it's not my thing at all. First of all, I'm not into speakers ( yet !) so I want my headphone to sound like headphones. I heard a few speakers system though and i loved the experience. it does not take hours to understand how the Soundstage and physical impact is much better with speakers. I think that trying to replicate that speaker sound makes headphone sound "fake" to my ears. Maybe it's something personal but it's precisely what I experienced with the Focal. It sounds nice, fast, agile , precise and honestly this driver shows the HD800 is now a bit old  . but the tuning pulls me out of my music. It 's like if my music was a bit photoshoped. Very very clean photoshop job but still a kind of slight fakeness I couldn't forget. 
  
 Maybe it's just me and I can deal with the fact I'm alone to hear things like I did.  . Maybe I'm just not a "Harman curve" fan.
  
 Moreover, if I would like to make sound my headphones like speakers/real life/5.1 system/ concerts/ whatever, I'd use DSP and digital enhancements.  Likely a smyth realizer  . I heard the Daring Fong's OOYH a few weeks ago and it was a lot of fun


----------



## Fegefeuer

oh, you'll have a lot of fun with the realiser A16. Come to Munich next year and check it out for yourself unless they appear earlier near your location.


----------



## Sorrodje

I plan to go to Essen next Year maybe not Munich. Time will tell


----------



## Yoga

fegefeuer said:


> oh, you'll have a lot of fun with the realiser A16. Come to Munich next year and check it out for yourself unless they appear earlier near your location.


 

 I look forward to auditioning that, only recently heard of it.


----------



## johnjen

One observation I have picked up over time is that exotic metals (Beryllium in this case of the Focal Utopia) can take quite a long time to fully settle in.
 As in many hundreds of hrs before they reach their peak and fully stabilize.
  
 It's just in the nature of certain 'stiff' metals.
 Speakers that used this metal (and other similar metals) always took a long time to sound their best.
  
 And that is what I heard when I heard them when they first appeared upon the scene.
 And no I haven't spent enough time with them, and certainly not hundreds of hrs. to verify that this trait also applies to the Utopia's.
 But I would be surprised if they didn't require much more time like other exotic metal drivers do.
  
 JJ


----------



## Ani1000

Beryllium is toxic, not so sure i want to be this close to it...


----------



## Rozenberg

ani1000 said:


> Beryllium is toxic, not so sure i want to be this close to it...





I'm not even sure why and how this remark could still be around like this... I believe those engineers at Focal know better about the safety of the material used in their products. Beryllium can be toxic, yeah, if inhaled or digested. So, how many case of people swallowing headphones drivers have you seen in your life?
Heck even plastic, which is a thing you see everyday in your life, is also harmful to your body if you swallow it or crush it to bits then inhale it.

Also this is HD800 thread, lets talk about how aluminium is toxic instead. (was it aluminium? CMIIW)


----------



## ColtMrFire

ani1000 said:


> Beryllium is toxic, not so sure i want to be this close to it...




Its only toxic in liquid form. Once it hardens it is safe. At least thats my understanding.

And I would think a company like Focal would believe it bad business practice to poison its consumers.


----------



## MWSVette

ani1000 said:


> Beryllium is toxic, not so sure i want to be this close to it...


 
 Note to self,  Do not lick headphone drivers...


----------



## pervysage

mwsvette said:


> Note to self,  Do not lick headphone drivers...


 

B-b-b-but, they are so tasty. I can't help myself


----------



## akg fanboy

I prefer biocellulose, it is all natural


----------



## ColtMrFire

Has anyone gone from a low priced DAC (like Modi multibit or any D/S DAC) to Gumby or Yggy and can describe the change?


----------



## Xeculus

coltmrfire said:


> Has anyone gone from a low priced DAC (like Modi multibit or any D/S DAC) to Gumby or Yggy and can describe the change?


 
  
 Have Modi 2U and MB, and also Gumby. The difference is surprisingly noticeable. Better details, better sense of space and dimension. Is it 4x better for 4x the price though? Nope.


----------



## Yoga

coltmrfire said:


> Has anyone gone from a low priced DAC (like Modi multibit or any D/S DAC) to Gumby or Yggy and can describe the change?


 

 I would imagine everyone with an expensive DAC started out with a cheaper one :¬)
  
 The fact people do upgrade DACs says it all really! As always, the law of diminishing returns hits quite quickly.

 Also check out the pro audio market, it's not aimed at consumer/audiophiles and your money can go a lot further. I'm currently testing the dangerous Convert-2 which is sublime. Never felt so much groove in music without sacrificing any detail.


----------



## ColtMrFire

For the record, I've heard the Yggy through my Jotunheim with someone else's HD800 (with stock SE cable and ZY balanced cable) a couple months back.  The question was just to get other people's experiences with upgrading DACs... while I did get a very good idea of what the Yggy is like, I only listened for a few hours, so wouldn't have the extended experience as someone else who has lived with it for a while.  I appreciate the replies.


----------



## ColtMrFire

xeculus said:


> Have Modi 2U and MB, and also Gumby. The difference is surprisingly noticeable. Better details, better sense of space and dimension. Is it 4x better for 4x the price though? Nope.


 
  
 Thanks.  I demoed Yggy through Black Widow as well and it was sublime.  I imagine Gumby/BW is not far behind.  You are lucky to have a BW, it's an amazing amp.  The warm tone complements the HD800.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

pervysage said:


> B-b-b-but, they are so tasty. I can't help myself


 

 I hear licking them can help mitigate the 6khz spike.


----------



## Muffinhead

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I hear licking them can help mitigate the 6khz spike.


 
 one of the funniest things I've read on headfi


----------



## Evshrug

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I hear licking them can help mitigate the 6khz spike.



Really? I read that the HD800 was so cold, that your tongue would freeze to the drivers!


----------



## thekorsen

evshrug said:


> Really? I read that the HD800 was so cold, that your tongue would freeze to the drivers!


 
 That's an easy fix, you just need the warmth of a tube amp to thaw it out.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

no class d schiit, pure class A!


----------



## twiceboss

zoom25 said:


> I broke out the HD 800 for the night after a long time while going to bed and wearing without glasses. I noticed my earcup positioning is different with vs. without glasses. So how do you guys prefer to wear the HD 800. The earcups are so massive, that you can play around with the earcups for sound tuning purposes.


 
 Well honestly I hate glasses but I can't see without it HAHA.
  
 Wearing headphone without glasses is always the best.


----------



## jibzilla

ubs28 said:


> The HD 800 has a wider soundstage than most speakers also. Focal might have done this on purpose since I assume they try to come as close to speakers as possible.
> 
> If the Utopia sounds compressed, then the problem is the equipment used.


 
  
 ??? The hd800 has a very open sound to it but the most distance I have ever heard an instruments/vocals outside the headphone itself is like 5 inches. My adam's can throw instruments/vocals 5 ft. There is no comparing here. Either you listened to a piss poor pair of speakers or the hd800 do some sort of magic trick with your particular ears.


----------



## Sennheiser Yo

Is it worth it to upgrade from the HD 600 to the HD 800? What do you guys think? Suggest other headphones for me to get coming from the 600's.I was thinking about the AKG k712 or hifiman he-400i.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

sennheiser yo said:


> Is it worth it to upgrade from the HD 600 to the HD 800? What do you guys think? Suggest other headphones for me to get coming from the 600's.I was thinking about the AKG k712 or hifiman he-400i.




HD800, no contest. If you want to spend more and like more bass, HD800S is also an option.


----------



## Me x3

sennheiser yo said:


> Is it worth it to upgrade from the HD 600 to the HD 800? What do you guys think? Suggest other headphones for me to get coming from the 600's.I was thinking about the AKG k712 or hifiman he-400i.


 

 It really depends on what you're looking for.
  
 I suggest starting  a new thread here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/f/7840/introductions-help-and-recommendations


----------



## Sennheiser Yo

me x3 said:


> It really depends on what you're looking for.
> 
> I suggest starting  a new thread here:
> http://www.head-fi.org/f/7840/introductions-help-and-recommendations



I'm looking for something neutral and similar to the sound of the HD 600


----------



## Me x3

sennheiser yo said:


> I'm looking for something neutral and similar to the sound of the HD 600


 

 HD800 is quite different, drier, leaner, brighter.
 HD800S is closer but still not very similar.
  
 HD650 is similar to HD600 yet slightly better in my book.
 You'll get more effortless bass, slightly bigger stage, smoother upper midrange and more resolving treble.
  
 Other headphones are different enough to make me say you should try them before buying (if you have the chance) because there's always a trade off, and at this point, more often than not, being technically superior is not the same as being more enjoyable.


----------



## thefitz

sennheiser yo said:


> I'm looking for something neutral and similar to the sound of the HD 600


Why not stay with the HD600 then?


----------



## Sennheiser Yo

thefitz said:


> Why not stay with the HD600 then?



I'm keeping them just want to try something new


----------



## Yoga

sennheiser yo said:


> I'm keeping them just want to try something new


 

 No competition, HD800 are much, much better. Don't get the S model, get the HD 800 then install Sonarworks Reference 3. Tamed treble and better (tighter) bass than the HD800S.
  
 SWR3 is god damned amazing.


----------



## jibzilla

yoga said:


> The Abyss are a different beast, it's hard to explain. You're in the sound rather than it being pushed into both L/R ears. You sit with the performers, rather than in front of them.
> 
> They have an inky black background and massive dynamic power, so the sounds pop out at you. _Immersive._
> 
> ...


 
  
 I like spl and think that they make a quality product that is more preferable than most of the commercial products out there. That being said I think their almost all music was designed for speakers is only a half truth. Just because the music itself was designed to be listened on speakers does not 100% mean all formats are synergetic with speakers. MP3's 100% are not synergetic with speakers and I think headphones are absolutely just as good if not better choice when it comes to mp3's. Maybe if spl made a record player or cd player they could talk smack, but they do not.


----------



## Yoga

jibzilla said:


> I like spl and think that they make a quality product that is more preferable than most of the commercial products out there. That being said I think their almost all music was designed for speakers is only a half truth. Just because the music itself was designed to be listened on speakers does not 100% mean all formats are synergetic with speakers. MP3's 100% are not synergetic with speakers and I think headphones are absolutely just as good if not better choice when it comes to mp3's. Maybe if spl made a record player or cd player they could talk smack, but they do not.


 

 I'm not sure what you're getting at here buddy :¬) SPL are only offering a means to emulate, which is entirely subjective to the listener and their needs. Obviously it's not something you find valuable. For mixing/mastering, it's very useful.
  
 Having said that, I'm going to be sending the Phonitor X back. I don't _want_ to, but it's causing a ground loop in my chain which is not acceptable as will cost more to fix via top quality conditioners and/or transformers.

 I'll be trying the Violectric V281 next. Perhaps the Pro iCan also.


----------



## ColtMrFire

sennheiser yo said:


> I'm keeping them just want to try something new


 
  
 HD800 is a must buy if you're into the Sennheiser house sound.  It's not even worth debating.  They will scale with future upgrades unlike the HD600, which are great headphones, but have limits.  If you're curious, just buy a used 800, and if you don't like it, you can turn around and sell it for the same price very quickly.


----------



## jibzilla

yoga said:


> I'm not sure what you're getting at here buddy :¬) SPL are only offering a means to emulate, which is entirely subjective to the listener and their needs. Obviously it's not something you find valuable. For mixing/mastering, it's very useful.
> 
> Having said that, I'm going to be sending the Phonitor X back. I don't _want_ to, but it's causing a ground loop in my chain which is not acceptable as will cost more to fix via top quality conditioners and/or transformers.
> 
> I'll be trying the Violectric V281 next. Perhaps the Pro iCan also.


 
  
 What I'm getting at is very simple. SPL is more than welcome to offer a means to emulate speakers and also more than welcome to tell people almost all music was intended to be listened to on speakers. I just think if they do that they ought to also let people know mp3's do not work all that well with speakers. Either that or build a record or cd player. They do make a phono pre that I'm interested in but I would rather see an actual player
  
 To me mp3's and speakers are like reel to reel with headphones. There just is not allot of soundstage in mp3's, at least not compared to direct to disc records and audiophile cd's, so why spend allot of money to miss out on the main feature. Reel to reel is cool but comes with a hiss that is quite annoying with headphones superior detail. With a detailed ultra revealing like the hd800 I'm positive you will get a hiss that will be quite bothersome.


----------



## Zoom25

jibzilla said:


> ??? *The hd800 has a very open sound to it but the most distance I have ever heard an instruments/vocals outside the headphone itself is like 5 inches*. My adam's can throw instruments/vocals 5 ft. There is no comparing here. Either you listened to a piss poor pair of speakers or the hd800 do some sort of magic trick with your particular ears.


 
 Oh thank god, I'm not the only one!
  
 During my time at head-fi, I've shared impressions of several gear and have for the most part gotten feedback that my impressions match their own. So I know my gear and hearing is translating fairly well with the general public. However, the one thing that I've never understood is how some people find the soundstage to be like that of a concert hall, or show with their arms spread 6 feet apart that the soundstage is this wide, or that they can feel the musicians playing in the room.
  
 To be fair, I did kind of experience this sensation when I had gotten a Sansa Fuze and played with some generic Sony headphones from Costco way back in the day. At the time, I didn't have much experience with decent speakers, so I suppose it was the fact that that experience quickly became that reference point until that part of my life. By the time I had gotten the HD 800, which are much better than the Sansa Fuze and Sony headphones, I had also tried many decent speakers, which took over as the reference point of what music should sound like and be portrayed as. This is why I feel like I've never been blown away with the HD 800 like I was with the Sansa/Sony. The HD 800 couldn't match these speakers.
  
 I wonder if this is why some people are genuinely finding the HD 800 to be that good, because it is their best reference point. Monitors have kind of spoiled my experience with headphones. I don't get that same joy as I used to with headphones in the past. Bittersweet part of audio and life in general.


----------



## Me x3

zoom25 said:


> Oh thank god, I'm not the only one!
> 
> During my time at head-fi, I've shared impressions of several gear and have for the most part gotten feedback that my impressions match their own. So I know my gear and hearing is translating fairly well with the general public. However, the one thing that I've never understood is how some people find the soundstage to be like that of a concert hall, or show with their arms spread 6 feet apart that the soundstage is this wide, or that they can feel the musicians playing in the room.
> 
> ...


 
 Epic post about soundstage perception
 http://www.head-fi.org/a/stax-sr-007-omega-ii-a-review-after-4-years-of-ownership-darth-nuts-epic-review


----------



## FLTWS

me x3 said:


> Epic post about soundstage perception
> http://www.head-fi.org/a/stax-sr-007-omega-ii-a-review-after-4-years-of-ownership-darth-nuts-epic-review


 
  
 First time I've read this. Simply Brilliant!


----------



## fjrabon

me x3 said:


> Epic post about soundstage perception
> http://www.head-fi.org/a/stax-sr-007-omega-ii-a-review-after-4-years-of-ownership-darth-nuts-epic-review




I definitely experience non-crossfed headphone soundstage as "three blobs" like Tyll's classic description, unless it's a binaural recording. Currawong is a favorite of mine on here, but the experiences just don't square with mine as far as perception of headstage in headphones. Although I can appreciate a lot of the other ideas in the essay.


----------



## Me x3

fjrabon said:


> I definitely experience non-crossfed headphone soundstage as "three blobs" like Tyll's classic description, unless it's a binaural recording. Currawong is a favorite of mine on here, but the experiences just don't square with mine as far as perception of headstage in headphones. Although I can appreciate a lot of the other ideas in the essay.


 

 In my expereince it really depends on the recording and can change quite a lot depending on what I'm doing while listening to music.
 Currawong posted that but _Darth nut is the author._


----------



## Ani1000

Is an amp with a spec of 125mw@300ohm enough for the HD800?


----------



## Me x3

ani1000 said:


> Is an amp with a spec of 125mw@300ohm enough for the HD800?


 

 In terms of power, yes.


----------



## Ani1000

I just saw an unboxing video on YouTube, the guy claims there is a 6.3 mm to 3.5mm adapter included in the box ,my old HD800 didn't include one, did anyone get one?


----------



## ecva

None on mine too..  which I got about 3 weeks ago.  Had to buy it separately.


----------



## johnjen

I really don't want to sound like a broken record, but…
 If the signal fed to the 800's has the spatial cues properly presented to the 800's you'll hear it.
  
 I have heard instruments that were 30' away, I've heard the entire acoustic space get lit up and heard the original crescendo morph as that same acoustic space changes the acoustic energy as it dissipates and recedes away from the microphones.
 I've heard lightening strike several hundred yards away, I've heard a musician cough (uniquely a musicians cough, if ever there was one), I've heard rain drops, in a rain storm.
  
 All of this and more is possible,
 IF (and it’s a big if) the signal fed to the 800's delivers those spatial cues and the necessary acoustic energy, properly.
 IOW if the entire system is dialed in, including the 800's themselves, the level of articulation and resolution and REALNESS is simply astounding.
  
 IOW 800's can scale like a mutha, but the entire system (including the source material) needs to have been scaled right along with them.
  
 And it has been my experience that this degree of performance doesn't just happen, you have to work for it.
 IOW if you buy this or that gear and just plug everything in and don't dial it all in, the level of REALNESS 800's are capable of just isn't going to happen.
  
 Ya gotta work for it.
 Trial and error, experimentation, paying attention to those who have reported significant improvements and finding out for yourself, all of these, and more will result in finding just how far 800's can scale.
  
 And yes this can all to easily border on compulsion, audio nervosa (if you let it), obsession, and probably a few other descriptors as well.
  
 But ya gotta remember, this is a HOBBY, an avocation, a compelling way to spend your personal time on something you love to be involved with, to the degree that is appropriate, (or not).
  
 But the rewards are unique to each who pursues these illusive goals.
 Yet we all do pursue the challenge of a satisfying musical experience, some just want to see just how far down the rabbit hole they can go.
  
 Yeah, that would be me as well.
 But I'm not alone…
 Am I?
  
 JJ


----------



## mysticstryk

coltmrfire said:


> HD800 is a must buy if you're into the Sennheiser house sound.  It's not even worth debating.  They will scale with future upgrades unlike the HD600, which are great headphones, but have limits.  If you're curious, just buy a used 800, and if you don't like it, you can turn around and sell it for the same price very quickly.




I have found the 6x0 series scales just as well as the 800 with gear upgrades. Though unlike the 800, the 6x0 isn't as picky with gear.


----------



## DarktoreS




----------



## bearFNF

ani1000 said:


> I just saw an unboxing video on YouTube, the guy claims there is a 6.3 mm to 3.5mm adapter included in the box ,my old HD800 didn't include one, did anyone get one?



I bought mine a few years ago and it had the adapter in the box.



ecva said:


> None on mine too..  which I got about 3 weeks ago.  Had to buy it separately.


----------



## JamieMcC

darktores said:


>


 
  
 Nice where did you find those carbon fibre connectors?


----------



## DarktoreS

It's my Furutech iHP-35hx cable http://www.magazine-audio.com/headphone-cable-adl-ihp-35hx/


----------



## ColtMrFire

mysticstryk said:


> I have found the 6x0 series scales just as well as the 800 with gear upgrades. Though unlike the 800, the 6x0 isn't as picky with gear.


 
  
 I didn't mean to imply the 600 doesn't scale.  I meant its not going to scale to the heights of the 800, in terms of technical ability.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> HD800 is a must buy if you're into the Sennheiser house sound.  It's not even worth debating.  They will scale with future upgrades unlike the HD600, which are great headphones, but have limits.  If you're curious, just buy a used 800, and if you don't like it, you can turn around and sell it for the same price very quickly.




I actually think the HD800 was a bit of a departure from the Sennheiser "house sound". Previously Sennheiser had always relaxed 6-8kHz and instead pushed 3-4kHz. The HD800 does the exact opposite. In some ways the HD800 was more like the AKG house sound than the traditional Sennheiser house sound.


----------



## Ani1000

It's odd some of them come with an adapter and some don't. 
I hope mine will also will come with one, thanks. 


bearfnf said:


> I bought mine a few years ago and it had the adapter in the box.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I've always found discussion of a 'house sound' unhelpful, but in Sennheiser's case, there are only three notable headphones in the last two decades. Two of them have a similar (though distinct) sound; the third is quite different. If you want to draw a line between HE400, 400i, 400S, 5, 500, 560, 6, X, 1000 and call that a "house sound," fine, but two is not a pattern.


----------



## Hansotek

fjrabon said:


> I actually think the HD800 was a bit of a departure from the Sennheiser "house sound". Previously Sennheiser had always relaxed 6-8kHz and instead pushed 3-4kHz. The HD800 does the exact opposite. In some ways the HD800 was more like the AKG house sound than the traditional Sennheiser house sound.


 
  
 I find the concept of "house sound" to be a little more subtle and complex than FR differences. Really, I think where you see it play out is in timbre. In that regard, the HD800, 650, 600, 598, etc. all share some definite similarities. Same with all Beyers, AKGs, etc. Compare a Senn to a beyer, and guitars will always sound more woody on the Senn, regardless of FR. I think some of this stems from the shapes of their housings, cup physics and the choices of materials.


----------



## Me x3

HD800 is tuned like a DT880 Pro, except for some subtle but still relevant differences in the treble region.
  
 Pink is DT880 Pro - Green is HD800

  
 AKGs have a bump around 2kHz which make them quite different from the HD800 in terms of tonality.
 Most of the times AKGs are less extended in the highest treble, givng a more opaque/less airy sound.


----------



## fjrabon

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I've always found discussion of a 'house sound' unhelpful, but in Sennheiser's case, there are only three notable headphones in the last two decades. Two of them have a similar (though distinct) sound; the third is quite different. If you want to draw a line between HE400, 400i, 400S, 5, 500, 560, 6, X, 1000 and call that a "house sound," fine, but two is not a pattern.




Nah, the HD600, HD650, HD580, HD414 and HD598 all more or less adhered to the Sennheiser house sound. Even the Orpheus (original, haven't heard the II) more or less adhered to the Sennheiser house sound, just as an extremely refined version. 

HiFiMan is also interesting in that the HE1000 and edition X shifted away from the rest of the "house sound" of the HE6, HE500, HE400i and HE560.


----------



## Yoga

zoom25 said:


> I wonder if this is why some people are genuinely finding the HD 800 to be that good, because it is their best reference point. Monitors have kind of spoiled my experience with headphones. I don't get that same joy as I used to with headphones in the past. Bittersweet part of audio and life in general.


 
  
 Same, I only use headphones when I can't use monitors now (hence the HD800 and SWR3). Not touched my Abyss rig in a while. Ever heard those?


----------



## Zoom25

yoga said:


> Same, I only use headphones when I can't use monitors now (hence the HD800 and SWR3). Not touched my Abyss rig in a while. Ever heard those?


 
  
 No haven't tried the Abyss yet. I don't know of any place locally here in Canada where I think I can even audition them. The chatter about the Elear and Utopia has gotten me interested though. I am going to try them out sometime soon at a local place.
  
 I'm gravitating towards high-end headphones that will work well out of the headphone jack on my iPad and Macbook Pro as well. If the headphones absolutely need to be tied to a full system all the time, then I'd rather pick speakers, which is what I do. This is why I have started using my HD 598 more and more nowadays.


----------



## Yoga

zoom25 said:


> No haven't tried the Abyss yet. I don't know of any place locally here in Canada where I think I can even audition them. The chatter about the Elear and Utopia has gotten me interested though. I am going to try them out sometime soon at a local place.
> 
> I'm gravitating towards high-end headphones that will work well out of the headphone jack on my iPad and Macbook Pro as well. If the headphones absolutely need to be tied to a full system all the time, then I'd rather pick speakers, which is what I do. This is why I have started using my HD 598 more and more nowadays.


 

 I'm quite tempted by the Utopia too (and Ether Flows), all being well I'll be auditioning them this coming week, although I'm more interested now in how well a headphone responds to EQing. How they sound stock is quite irrelevant (for my needs).


----------



## RCBinTN

zoom25 said:


> Oh thank god, I'm not the only one!
> 
> During my time at head-fi, I've shared impressions of several gear and have for the most part gotten feedback that my impressions match their own. So I know my gear and hearing is translating fairly well with the general public. However, the one thing that I've never understood is how some people find the soundstage to be like that of a concert hall, or show with their arms spread 6 feet apart that the soundstage is this wide, or that they can feel the musicians playing in the room.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well stated.  IMO the HD800 have the widest soundstage of any HP that I've heard.  Certainly wider than my LCD-X and even the Ether Flow.
  
 But, the soundstage of the HD800 nor any headphone will ever compare to a well-done speaker rig.  The speakers will always win on stage.  Of course, it depends on many factors including the room in which you are listening.
  
 The level of detail in the presented music, well that's a different discussion.
  
 I think it's fun trying to find a HP that can compare with speakers, but I don't think it will ever happen.  Just not possible, due to the physics.
  
 IMHO and YMMV, and, as always, enjoy your music!
  
 All the Best,
 RCBinTN


----------



## jibzilla

rcbintn said:


> Well stated.  IMO the HD800 have the widest soundstage of any HP that I've heard.  Certainly wider than my LCD-X and even the Ether Flow.
> 
> But, the soundstage of the HD800 nor any headphone will ever compare to a well-done speaker rig.  The speakers will always win on stage.  Of course, it depends on many factors including the room in which you are listening.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah and I would not get caught up in all the members lately saying they are spoiled by speakers. Speakers do not do all that well with mp3's so if you own a nice dac headphones are just as good if not better way to go. I'm quite the TT fan and even I think mp3 will over take records eventually in terms of songs available, now flac... that might take a while.
  
 That being said I do think some people are going way overboard with headphones. I personally could not go over $3k on a dac just cause the technology is changing and record players have been around a good 50 years longer so more things proven. $3k on a dac, $5k on a Teton or Ravenswood and $4k on a Utopia I think is as far as I would take it dynamic wise. $12k total with a preamp to boot.
  
 Stat wise, I talked about dropping a mint on a 009 setup that would compete with the new Orpheus but ultimately I think I would have a really hard time not going the speaker route once you hit the dynamic price range I just talked about. KRK expose e8b's are absolutely amazing at $5k a pair. Just xlr input though so I'm stuck with my adam's. Still a really good speaker to be stuck with.


----------



## Muffinhead

Hey guys, completely random question: what pair of preamp tubes would you say pairs very well with the HD800s? I have Gold Lions, stock 6BZ7 tubes for my Lyr, and Orange Globes, and I think that, surprisingly, the stock tubes sound best. The soundstage seems much larger, and the detail retrieval is finer. Is there any other pair that I should look into getting? Thanks.


----------



## Ani1000

I went from HD800 to Neumann KH120a, now back to HD800! 
Don't get me wrong the monitors sound amazing, but not as good as the headphones, reason is you need to treat the room like crazy in order for it to sound great, plus you need to position them exactly at the right height and position, i just got tired of all of this, so i sold them. 
Yeah music is more realistic from speakers, no doubt, but you can't get to that perfect sound that headphones have because they don't need room treatment.
By the way the KH120a are unbeatable at their price if anyone is considering buying monitors, i tried them all, Focal, Dynaudio, Adam, Genelec.


----------



## DavidA

muffinhead said:


> Hey guys, completely random question: what pair of preamp tubes would you say pairs very well with the HD800s? I have Gold Lions, stock 6BZ7 tubes for my Lyr, and Orange Globes, and I think that, surprisingly, the stock tubes sound best. The soundstage seems much larger, and the detail retrieval is finer. Is there any other pair that I should look into getting? Thanks.


 
 I like 74-75 Reflektors, Siemens Lorenz and Amperex PQs for the HD-800 in my Lyr2, with that said I don't use my Lyr2 much with my HD-800, usually use my BH Crack.


----------



## Zoom25

ani1000 said:


> I went from HD800 to Neumann KH120a, now back to HD800!
> Don't get me wrong the monitors sound amazing, but not as good as the headphones, reason is you need to treat the room like crazy in order for it to sound great, *plus you need to position them exactly at the right height and position, i just got tired of all of this, so i sold them.*


 
 Everyone should be doing this regardless of what speaker they have. My speaker placement practices are the same regardless if I'm dealing with some Logitech's or high-end speakers. This is to be expected and can be time consuming. Even if you cannot do room treatment, if you play around with the speaker placement and furniture in the XYZ of the room, you can still accomplish a LOT.
  
 Although, if one does not possess the knowledge or patience to do this, then headphones may very well be the better solution. Physics must be dealt with.
  


> Yeah music is more realistic from speakers, no doubt, *but you can't get to that perfect sound that headphones have* because they don't need room treatment.


 
  
 After you experience high-end speakers in a good space, the headphones will stop sounding perfect, even though they don't have to deal with room acoustics.


----------



## Yoga

jibzilla said:


> Yeah and I would not get caught up in all the members lately saying they are spoiled by speakers. Speakers do not do all that well with mp3's so if you own a nice dac headphones are just as good if not better way to go. I'm quite the TT fan and even I think mp3 will over take records eventually in terms of songs available, now flac... that might take a while.


 
  
 I've ignored this so far, but I have to say, this is _complete and utter nonsense_.
  
 If your speakers sound poor with MP3s there's something _seriously_ wrong with your setup.
  
 Update: if you have Spotify and stream at maximum quality, it's akin to a 320 V0 MP3. Play these two examples (of many):
  
 https://open.spotify.com/track/18AXbzPzBS8Y3AkgSxzJPb
  
 https://open.spotify.com/track/3dTGR2oQA1XaC850o5oPdK

 If the soundscape and realism of the instruments don't give you a 'wow' moment, your setup isn't as good as you think it is.


----------



## jibzilla

yoga said:


> I've ignored this so far, but I have to say, this is _complete and utter nonsense_.
> 
> If your speakers sound poor with MP3s there's something _seriously_ wrong with your setup.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So you found a couple exceptions to the rule. Congrats. Out of how many songs? Allot? Thanks for proving my point. I can probably find a couple songs in my record and cd collection that sound good on headphones if you give me enough time but it seems pointless.


----------



## Yoga

jibzilla said:


> So you found a couple exceptions to the rule. Congrats. Out of how many songs? Allot? Thanks for proving my point. I can probably find a couple songs in my record and cd collection that sound good on headphones if you give me enough time but it seems pointless.


 

 No, I choose two examples as to not spam anyone. I have complete playlists that sound exceptional. Hundreds of tracks. Countless albums.
  
 If a track is *produced and mastered* well, it'll sound amazing via high quality MP3. ESPECIALLY so on top speakers/studio monitors.

 Stop spouting this complete nonsense as if it's fact. God forbid, someone may actually believe you.


----------



## Zoom25

I'm the guy that can hear differences between MP3 and lossless, between FLAC/ALAC vs. WAV on my BDP-1. So I can assure you that I have an appreciation for these subtle things. I exclusively use 320 MP3's whenever I'm forced to or Spotify Premium max quality. I will say that it doesn't sound as good as playing lossless (uncompressed), but it's nowhere near BAD...unless the actual recording is bad, or the source of the MP3 isn't clean.
  
 EDIT: To be fair, I would like to like hear from Jibzilla why he thinks why MP3's are bad in particular with speakers. Hey buddy, what are you hearing or not hearing with MP3's that you don't get off the lossless counterpart. Assuming, both of these are derived from the same source. 
  
 Also, at this stage I didn't think people would be using MP3's unless for casual stuff or old material, so MP3 shouldn't even be a thing to worry about in a high-end system.


----------



## simon740

Hello,
  
 What do you guys think about the combination HD800 + Gustard A20H?
  
 regards,
 Simon


----------



## ColtMrFire

Man, James Blake was made for this headphone!


----------



## Yoga

Quite tempted to do the SDR mod then get the modded HD800 individually calibrated by Sonarworks. I bet that's a killer combo!

@bigfatpaulie - considered this yourself? :¬)


----------



## JaZZ

yoga said:


> Quite tempted to do the SDR mod then get the modded HD800 individually calibrated by Sonarworks. I bet that's a killer combo!
> 
> @bigfatpaulie - considered this yourself? :¬)


 
  
 That doesn't make sense to me. The SonarWorks curve explicitly takes care of the treble hump (as well as other nonlinearities), so the SD resonator – which is just a passive equalizer with the same goal, just concentrated on the 6 kHz range –  is in fact redundant. Strictly speaking it even adds some more reflections, since it closes the original center hole.
  
 Speaking of reflections: I apply this mod to reduce them. It effectively only kills some of the reflected sound within the ear cups, so if you miss some treble sparkle (glare) with it, it's due to the higher accuracy (higher percentage of direct sound reaching the ears). It would be another case of individual calibration/equalization.


----------



## Yoga

jazz said:


> That doesn't make sense to me. The SonarWorks curve explicitly takes care of the treble hump (as well as other nonlinearities), so the SD resonator – which is just a passive equalizer with the same goal, just concentrated on the 6 kHz range –  is in fact redundant. Strictly speaking it even adds some more reflections, since it closes the original center hole.
> 
> Speaking of reflections: I apply this mod to reduce them. It effectively only kills some of the reflected sound within the ear cups, so if you miss some treble sparkle (glare) with it, it's due to the higher accuracy (higher percentage of direct sound reaching the ears). It would be another case of individual calibration/equalization.


 

*Individually calibrated*. It would take into account the resonator mod :¬)


----------



## fjrabon

yoga said:


> *Individually calibrated*. It would take into account the resonator mod :¬)


 

 I think his point was more "but why"


----------



## JaZZ

yoga said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > That doesn't make sense to me. The SonarWorks curve explicitly takes care of the treble hump (as well as other nonlinearities), so the SD resonator – which is just a passive equalizer with the same goal, just concentrated on the 6 kHz range –  is in fact redundant. Strictly speaking it even adds some more reflections, since it closes the original center hole.
> ...


 
  
 You don't need the resonator anymore once you equalize per SonarWorks. It would be wasted money for a slightly worse solution (at least theoretically).
  
  


fjrabon said:


> I think his point was more "but why"


 
  
 Indeed – thanks, _fjrabon!_


----------



## PleasantSounds

> That doesn't make sense to me. The SonarWorks curve explicitly takes care of the treble hump (as well as other nonlinearities), so the SD resonator – which is just a passive equalizer with the same goal, just concentrated on the 6 kHz range –  is in fact redundant. Strictly speaking it even adds some more reflections, since it closes the original center hole.


 
  
 Maybe you're jumping to conclusions a bit too fast. 
  
 The 6kHz spike is not just an amplitude hump - it is there because of mechanical resonances. Reducing the input level in that frequency range may reduce the output, but the ringing will still be there (at least when you play your music a few dB louder).
  
 Mechanical treatment of this flaw has the advantage of reducing the mechanical resonances in that frequency range, therefore killing the root cause and not just the symptom.


----------



## punkmanmatthew

Just got som HD800s in today. First time I've ever had them.
  
 I'm running them through my Dragonfly black v1.5.
  
 They get plenty loud. Don't even really have to go past half volume on my MacBook.
  
 They sound great to me.
  
 I was just wondering what kind of a benefit an expensive or nicer desktop amp would do for me?
  
 I never really hear much if any of a difference with other headphones and a good amp/dac.
  
 I've read the HD800s are very amp dependent. 
  
 I'm worried I wouldn't really hear a difference.


----------



## jibzilla

zoom25 said:


> I'm the guy that can hear differences between MP3 and lossless, between FLAC/ALAC vs. WAV on my BDP-1. So I can assure you that I have an appreciation for these subtle things. I exclusively use 320 MP3's whenever I'm forced to or Spotify Premium max quality. I will say that it doesn't sound as good as playing lossless (uncompressed), but it's nowhere near BAD...unless the actual recording is bad, or the source of the MP3 isn't clean.
> 
> EDIT: To be fair, I would like to like hear from Jibzilla why he thinks why MP3's are bad in particular with speakers. Hey buddy, what are you hearing or not hearing with MP3's that you don't get off the lossless counterpart. Assuming, both of these are derived from the same source.
> 
> Also, at this stage I didn't think people would be using MP3's unless for casual stuff or old material, so MP3 shouldn't even be a thing to worry about in a high-end system.


 
  
 Actually I never said bad. That was a misquote from Yoga and now yourself. I have heard the staging sound decent with mp3. I have just never, out of hundreds of songs at this point, heard a mp3 version of a song that was equal or better than the direct to disc lp version or audiophile CD version when soundstage is concerned. The uber black background of mp3 also lends itself to headphones and its almost always superior detail to speakers.
  
 Hiss with reel to reel, pops and ticks with records, skipping with CD's all amplified with headphones. If mp3 is not just as good with headphones as speakers it is for sure hands down the best format to listen to music with headphones. I do not think there is any debate there but to each his own.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

punkmanmatthew said:


> Just got som HD800s in today. First time I've ever had them.
> 
> I'm running them through my Dragonfly black v1.5.
> 
> ...




Get the mimby vali 2 stack. You'll hear a difference.


----------



## DavidA

punkmanmatthew said:


> Just got som HD800s in today. First time I've ever had them.
> 
> I'm running them through my Dragonfly black v1.5.
> 
> ...


 
 Try and go to a meet and try the HD-800 on other systems, if you still can't hear a difference consider yourself lucky and get off this thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your wallet will be very happy.


----------



## 13713

punkmanmatthew said:


> Just got som HD800s in today. First time I've ever had them.
> 
> I'm running them through my Dragonfly black v1.5.
> 
> ...




Go to a meet. There are amps out there that are a night and day difference. The EC balancing act and the V281 are beasts.


----------



## nvfan

pleasantsounds said:


> Maybe you're jumping to conclusions a bit too fast.
> 
> The 6kHz spike is not just an amplitude hump - it is there because of mechanical resonances. Reducing the input level in that frequency range may reduce the output, but the ringing will still be there (at least when you play your music a few dB louder).
> 
> Mechanical treatment of this flaw has the advantage of reducing the mechanical resonances in that frequency range, therefore killing the root cause and not just the symptom.


 
  
 That's exactly right. Everyone in the home theater community knows it doesn't matter how expensive or advanced of an room correction/EQ system you have, you are never going to remove a resonances via room correction EQ. Cabinet resonances require dampening to fix, EQ won't address it. Driver resonance also can't be fixed by EQ since it's inherent in the transducer material. The only thing EQ ever fixes is frequency response at the listening position, but will never magically fix "clarity" issues since some of that summed output is the result of distortion/resonances.


----------



## Yoga

pleasantsounds said:


> Maybe you're jumping to conclusions a bit too fast.
> 
> The 6kHz spike is not just an amplitude hump - it is there because of mechanical resonances. Reducing the input level in that frequency range may reduce the output, but the ringing will still be there (at least when you play your music a few dB louder).
> 
> Mechanical treatment of this flaw has the advantage of reducing the mechanical resonances in that frequency range, therefore killing the root cause and not just the symptom.


 

 This is exactly why I want to combine them both. Could be rather good :¬)
  
@punkmanmatthew - amps make a significant difference (fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your viewpoint/wallet). The HD800 love power. I had the Phonitor X which drove them wonderfully, the difference was day and night. Had to return it though and have the V281 coming next week which I'm rather excited about. iCan Pro looks good too.


----------



## fjrabon

alcoholbob said:


> That's exactly right. Everyone in the home theater community knows it doesn't matter how expensive or advanced of an room correction/EQ system you have, you are never going to remove a resonances via room correction EQ. Cabinet resonances require dampening to fix, EQ won't address it. Driver resonance also can't be fixed by EQ since it's inherent in the transducer material. The only thing EQ ever fixes is frequency response at the listening position, but will never magically fix "clarity" issues since some of that summed output is the result of distortion/resonances.




I just don't hear a clarity issue at 6kHz on the HD800 for this to be an actual, practical concern. I've never heard anybody complain "man, the HD800 really lacks some clarity in the treble, if it could just clean up that ringing it'd be good." The complaint has always just been about the amount of 6kHz. 

 I've seen a lot of headphones where this was a major issue, and it caused them to not handle EQ well. This, in my experience, has not been the case with the HD800. I've heard SDR HD800 and while an amazingly marked improvement on stock tonality wise, my perception was a very slight loss in resolution to stock. Sonarworks doesn't have the same loss in resolution to my ears. The benefit, to me, of having the SDR mod is you aren't chained to computer only listening. 

Getting it individually calibrated with SDR might be a good idea if you go back and forth between turntable and computer listening. But let's also not forget it's pretty expensive ($150 IIRC) and tends to take over a month with shipping.


----------



## johnjen

I have been experimenting with an altogether different approach to dealing with the "6KHz" spike and have come to the conclusion that, all that has been accomplished thus far by addressing this as a FR issue is to damp the FR at those (and other) frequencies.
 But this isn't dealing with the root cause, nor does it address a fundamental issue that has been identified as the source of the irritation.
  
 This isn't to say that there isn't an elevated FR at those frequencies, but it is to say that this FR issue isn't the root problem.
 Thus far I've reached Gen-2.5 in my experiments and have devised yet further refinements to (hopefully) take my research to Gen-3 status.
  
 IOW all of my previous attempts thru the years to resolve these discrepancies (anax mods 1, 2, 2.5, 3, shelf liner, etc.) helped but didn't really address the root cause of what I have found as the primary design issue to begin with.
  
 And granted I have applied several other tweaks (EQ, SSBB, PRT, etc.) that are applied with the 800's in mind, which all work together, and the sum of all these really take 800's to a different level of SQ.
  
 Yeah 800's can scale like a mutha.
  
 JJ


----------



## JaZZ

pleasantsounds said:


> > That doesn't make sense to me. The SonarWorks curve explicitly takes care of the treble hump (as well as other nonlinearities), so the SD resonator – which is just a passive equalizer with the same goal, just concentrated on the 6 kHz range –  is in fact redundant. Strictly speaking it even adds some more reflections, since it closes the original center hole.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, it is likely a mechanical problem – possibly caused by reflections within the magnet system. Now a SD resonator may sound like a mechanical solution, but it just as little solves the problem at the source, it's just an acoustic equalizer with a function identical to an electrical equalizer.
  
 Every amplitude nonlinearity comes with a corresponding phase distortion, a narrow-band peak will even show distinct resonant behavior. If you manage to equalize it by an exactly inversed frequency-response curve, the result will be a perfect amplitude response and a perfect phase response, the resonance has disappeared. This because the equalizer has created a resonance with reversed phase (just like the SD resonator).


----------



## Evshrug

jibzilla said:


> Hiss with reel to reel, pops and ticks with records, skipping with CD's all amplified with headphones. If mp3 is not just as good with headphones as speakers it is for sure hands down the best format to listen to music with headphones. I do not think there is any debate there but to each his own.



Hello! Please excuse me for "bumping in," but this last paragraph brings a lot of clarity to me about your position, and begs a question: Do you use "MP3" as a general term to address all digital music files, excluding digital files written to digital media like CD's?

At first I thought you were particularly talking about files with the lossy MP3 compression encoding format, and not even discussing other formats such as MP4, AAC, FLAC, AIFF, or WAV. Now, I'm guessing you mean digital formats as a whole when you say MP3, even if MP3 encoding isn't used. Kinda like people sometimes refer to digital pictures as JPEGs even if they are PNG, or uncompressed like RAW or TIFF. Am I correct, you just mean any digital format?


----------



## JaZZ

alcoholbob said:


> pleasantsounds said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe you're jumping to conclusions a bit too fast.
> ...


 
  
 As explained above the SD resonator hasn't any magical fixing ability either, it works exactly like an electrical EQ band. With respect to room resonances, the problem is that you can't really equalize them via equalizer, you can just kind of equalize the sonic product at the listner's ears, comprizing direct sound (~20%) and reflected sound (~80%). But this also means an inevitable adulteration of the direct sound from the speakers. The only range barely suffering from this problem is below ~100 Hz, where speakers and room form an acoustic entity.
  
 You certainly can't fix cabinet resonances – they're too complex –, but an equalizer can fix driver resonances to some degree (by reversed-phase resonances, as described above), according to the filter theory.
  
 The best way of dealing with room resonances is improving the room acoustics with mechanical measures. You can also improve the headphone-cup mini-acoustics and correspondingly the transient response with some damping measures – independent of frequency-response issues.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

yoga said:


> Quite tempted to do the SDR mod then get the modded HD800 individually calibrated by Sonarworks. I bet that's a killer combo!
> 
> @bigfatpaulie - considered this yourself? :¬)


 
  
 I haven't.  Full disclosure I know very little about Sonarworks.  I've always been a pretty big HD800 fan from the beginning and I've never EQ'd.
  
 I'm actually very content with with my 800's now with the SDR.  Hardwiring them made a surprising improvement.


----------



## JamieMcC

bigfatpaulie said:


> I'm actually very content with with my 800's now with the SDR.  _Hardwiring them made a surprising improvement.  _


 
  
 Now why did you have to go and mention hardwiring them making a surprising improvment. I have been very happy with my HD800 fitted with the SDR and Mainline right up until I read that......


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jamiemcc said:


> Now why did you have to go and mention hardwiring them making a surprising improvment. I have been very happy with my HD800 fitted with the SDR and Mainline right up until I read that......


 
  
 Haha.  At least it's a really inexpensive upgrade   Plus, it gives you an excuse to break out the soldering iron!


----------



## deserat

punkmanmatthew said:


> Just got som HD800s in today. First time I've ever had them.
> 
> I'm running them through my Dragonfly black v1.5.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It depends.  Personally I can easily the difference moving from my Fiio x5ii, to my Bifrost/Lyr2, and it's very noticeable to then take them home to  the Gumby/HDVA 600 or Crack.

 There are tonal differences that are pretty obvious but the main thing I notice is the naturalness in presentation. As an example listening to Ani Difanco's acoustic work, each step up the ladder  sounds more like I'm sitting in the studio with her - I can hear the reverberation of her voice off the walls. Or with good electronic music like BT's latest album "-", instrument  positioning and clarity become completely surreal. 

 Price isn't neccessarially the best indicator though, for general listening I prefer my 300 crack to the much more expensive hdva600.

 The HD800 loves a good pairing and changes alot between amps. At leas compared to other headphones I've tried.

 There is a thread dedicated to HD800 and amp paring http://www.head-fi.org/t/660817/whats-the-best-amp-for-hd800


----------



## jibzilla

evshrug said:


> Hello! Please excuse me for "bumping in," but this last paragraph brings a lot of clarity to me about your position, and begs a question: Do you use "MP3" as a general term to address all digital music files, excluding digital files written to digital media like CD's?
> 
> At first I thought you were particularly talking about files with the lossy MP3 compression encoding format, and not even discussing other formats such as MP4, AAC, FLAC, AIFF, or WAV. Now, I'm guessing you mean digital formats as a whole when you say MP3, even if MP3 encoding isn't used. Kinda like people sometimes refer to digital pictures as JPEGs even if they are PNG, or uncompressed like RAW or TIFF. Am I correct, you just mean any digital format?


 
  
 I listen to mostly flac on tidal. It sounds good on my speakers but not great like with my TT and cd player version of the same song and that is with a quite a bit less expensive players to boot. With my headphones it is quite the opposite. The black background lets all the microdetails come out to play and no amplified hiss, pops, skip, etc.
  
 If I implied that listening to mp3 on speakers is bad it was not my intention. Sometimes I do not feel like cleaning my cd's or records and in the case of records adjusting the counter weight etc. I also listen to records and cd's on headphones when I do not want to disturb others. Listen to a couple Peter Gabriel records last night for this reason, that and tidal's Gabriel selection is crap. Sounded quite nice but not quite as nice as my speakers.
  
 I just think if one is not interested in being multi format like myself and really likes the dac route the best he or she should really consider headphones more than say reel to reel/TT/CD. Personally I think people are missing out not going multi format and speaker/headphone but I understand if they have X,Y,Z reason.


----------



## Ani1000

How much do you baby your HD800? More than other headphones? 
The T1 feels a little bit more sturdy so I'm always worried when i touch an HD800


----------



## Me x3

ani1000 said:


> How much do you baby your HD800? More than other headphones?
> The T1 feels a little bit more sturdy so I'm always worried when i touch an HD800


 

 I baby all my headphones.
 DT880 Pro is the sturdiest.


----------



## Ani1000

That's good. 
I guess what I'm asking is, do i need to baby them more than other headphones, are they more fragile because of the plastic construction?


----------



## MWSVette

ani1000 said:


> That's good.
> I guess what I'm asking is, do i need to baby them more than other headphones, are they more fragile because of the plastic construction?


 
  
 No, they are well built.  
  
 But I would recommend handling them like you would any other $1000.00 piece of equipment.


----------



## ecva

I never let it touch any hard surface lol.  Once I accidentally pushed the aluminum part that surrounds the driver inwards and I almost died.  Good thing it popped back out.


----------



## Arniesb

ecva said:


> I never let it touch any hard surface lol.  Once I accidentally pushed the aluminum part that surrounds the driver inwards and I almost died.  Good thing it popped back out.  :eek:


I feel you dude lol same logic for me. Its like a little baby lol


----------



## Ani1000

Lol
I just wish they came with a metal case like the T1, the HD800 case is nice but not practical. 
Plus it's ridiculous that i need to buy my own 3.5mm adapter, but it really doesn't matter because I'm in love with the sound. 
All other headphones sound like meh to me now. 
I'm ruined forever. 
The K550 sound like crap, in comparison.


----------



## Rozenberg

ani1000 said:


> How much do you baby your HD800? More than other headphones?
> The T1 feels a little bit more sturdy so I'm always worried when i touch an HD800


 
 I babied my Staxen very much more than the HD800. HD800 feels sturdier and I feel no worries when throwing em onto bed and such.
 I do agree the Beyer feels sturdier even at first sight tho.


----------



## Ani1000

Cool thanks 
What's the best way to store them and avoid dust?


----------



## fjrabon

The box they came in works fine for me. There's also the put a cloth over them while they're on the stand trick.


----------



## Rozenberg

I used to store them in their box everytime I was done using them too but as I'm starting to lose more space, I just use stand.
 I wouldn't worry too much about dust getting into the HD800 though.


----------



## DavidA

ani1000 said:


> Cool thanks
> What's the best way to store them and avoid dust?


 
 if they collect dust you are not using them enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, kidding aside, most just hand them on a headphone stand.


----------



## MWSVette

davida said:


> if they collect dust you are not using them enough
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1 lol...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

HE-6 feels sturdiest of mine, but maybe that's just because it's heavy and the case is not especially premium feeling. K3003i is the most delicate. I think the in-line remote was a poor design choice.


----------



## Poki

ani1000 said:


> Cool thanks
> What's the best way to store them and avoid dust?


 
  
 I am using this inexpensive case (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PDEZIPA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) to store my HD800 (as the factory box is too big for my office shelves). Mind you this Geekria case (really meant for HD650) is a tight fit for the 800; but if you enlarge the pre-cut foam opening a bit more to fit the thicker cable, the case works.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I think I know now why I rejected pop music so thoroughly in the past...
  
 Until you start hearing that stuff like it was mastered in the studio, it can come off as grating and harsh and not very involving.
  
 Pop music through my HD800-Jot-Mimby is like hearing a studio master.  All the nuance and layers and production value in a typical pop album is amazing, and I'm finally hearing it that way.  I think alot of people don't realize how much work goes into these pop records... they really can sound phenomenal if heard the way its supposed to be heard.
  
 Drake, Rhianna, Tyrese... music I kind of used to hate I'm actually seeking out now.  Whether it's actually great on an artistic level is another conversation.  But technically they are modern marvels and I'm been enjoying every second of it.
  
 HD800 is so bloody amazing.


----------



## akg fanboy

The way it's supposed to be heard? Don't all those pop artists endorse dr dre who says beats represents the music the way those artists intend it to be heard? The general consenus usually says bass emphasized headphones match well with it. Personally I have little respect for the trending pop artists both musically and lyrically but I will agree that a lot of bass heavy music sounds great on the hd800


----------



## thefitz

Pop still brickwalls the hell out of their masters.
  
 And then there's the one-dimensional instrumentation, childish melodies, intelligence-insulting lyrics, and high-school songwriting.
  
 ...
  
 I'll see myself out.


----------



## Muffinhead

True point about the pop music's production values. I decided to give some modern pop a listen on my HD800's, just because I wanted to see what they could do, and I realized that these tracks have quite a bit of layering, panning, and effects going on. It is quite amazing to hear what technology can do with music...too bad the majority of it is squandered on garbage music.


----------



## ColtMrFire

muffinhead said:


> True point about the pop music's production values. I decided to give some modern pop a listen on my HD800's, just because I wanted to see what they could do, and I realized that these tracks have quite a bit of layering, panning, and effects going on. It is quite amazing to hear what technology can do with music...too bad the majority of it is squandered on garbage music.


 
  
 Yeah, I was talking about the technical qualities, not the ideology of the musicians.  
  
 Regardless of the Beats by Dre thing (which is just marketing to bassheads, the ones who buy the most music, not music connoisseurs who seek out the best quality), most pop music has some pretty impressive content in terms of sheer layering, effects, vocals, etc. that is perfect for the HD800.  Even brickwalled mastering sounds amazing through my setup.


----------



## akg fanboy

coltmrfire said:


> Yeah, I was talking about the technical qualities, not the ideology of the musicians.
> 
> Regardless of the Beats by Dre thing (which is just marketing to bassheads, the ones who buy the most music, not music connoisseurs who seek out the best quality), most pop music has some pretty impressive content in terms of sheer layering, effects, vocals, etc. that is perfect for the HD800.  Even brickwalled mastering sounds amazing through my setup.


 
 I don't know if I agree with you. Most pop music is very compressed, tons of auto tune and pitch correction, and technically speaking, very repetitive 1 note background music... I wouldn't even call it an instrumental. That's not to say some metal music isn't compressed to hell as well, all shall perish is basically _unlistenable_ on the hd800... but metal has tons of high quality masters with high dynamic range, especially for classical metal tracks. Of course the engineers who actually put up all that work to make the music are skilled for sure, and put tons of work in attempt to make those pop stars sound borderline listenable but I think it's skill gone to waste for those artists


----------



## ColtMrFire

akg fanboy said:


> I don't know if I agree with you. Most pop music is very compressed, tons of auto tune and pitch correction, and technically speaking, very repetitive 1 note background music... I wouldn't even call it an instrumental. That's not to say some metal music isn't compressed to hell as well, all shall perish is basically _unlistenable_ on the hd800... but metal has tons of high quality masters with high dynamic range, especially for classical metal tracks. Of course the engineers who actually put up all that work to make the music are skilled for sure, and put tons of work in attempt to make those pop stars sound borderline listenable but I think it's skill gone to waste for those artists


 
  
 Different strokes.  Pop music so far through my setup has been fluid, dynamic, punchy, melodic and soulful... extremely enjoyable as an experience, which is what I'm sure the artists had in mind in the first place.  if I'm a heretic for liking pop music now, then so be it.  I won't criticize anyone for hating it.


----------



## akg fanboy

coltmrfire said:


> Different strokes.  Pop music so far through my setup has been fluid, dynamic, punchy, melodic and soulful... extremely enjoyable as an experience, which is what I'm sure the artists had in mind in the first place.  if I'm a heretic for liking pop music now, then so be it.  I won't criticize anyone for hating it.


 
 I just don't agree that the technical qualities of pop music have much to appreciate, but the hd800 will make many things sound amazing for sure. If you enjoy the music for musical purposes then I really can't go on a witch hunt for that, everyone has different ideas of music and what they find to be enjoyable, so continue to listen to what you like


----------



## ColtMrFire

akg fanboy said:


> I just don't agree that the technical qualities of pop music have much to appreciate, but the hd800 will make many things sound amazing for sure. If you enjoy the music for musical purposes then I really can't go on a witch hunt for that, everyone has different ideas of music and what they find to be enjoyable, so continue to listen to what you like


 
  
 Thank you.  Same to you.


----------



## Yoga

If you want to appreciate layering, soundstage and depth, listen to the Spotify playlist I posted a page or so back. Some gold on there :¬)
  
 Also @ColtMrFire  - have you tried Sonarworks yet? :¬)


----------



## Sennheiser Yo

I bought a wooden omega headphone stand and I was wondering if they damage the headphones at all since the headphone's are being stretched out a little while they are on


----------



## akg fanboy

sennheiser yo said:


> I bought a wooden omega headphone stand and I was wondering if they damage the headphones at all since the headphone's are being stretched out a little while they are on


 
 I fear that as well, the earpads are thin so I wouldn't want those to flatten out either, that's why I don't have a headphone stand. I just lay them on my desk or the box it came from


----------



## Zoom25

The HD 800 will make most things sound pleasing for me. The production on pop can be great. Lot of knowledgeable and talented guys out there in the mainstream audio engineering community. That aspect of the music shouldn't be underestimated.
  
 However, the final product can end up sounding overly compressed as it's made for radio and crappy systems, where the compression definitely helps for most people's taste. Barely any breathing room. It's noticeable on the HD 800, but very much so on the Amphions.
  
 The other day I was in Best Buy looking at potential TVs. Spent an hour there. The audio systems are all there with the TVs. As people came and left and talked to the Best Buy reps, the question that came up the most was "How loud can this play? How many watts?"...It was a good reminder that us audio guys are still a very small percentage of the population. To most people, simply play it louder and they'll be blown away. Louder = Better.
  
 My recommendation for pop and other compressed genres...look into well recorded live performances.


----------



## ColtMrFire

yoga said:


> Also @ColtMrFire  - have you tried Sonarworks yet? :¬)


 
  
 I think I already mentioned this, but I've had sonarworks for a long time, and used it with my other Senns.  I don't do computer audio anymore, but I did try it with the 800 and liked it.


----------



## thefitz

akg fanboy said:


> That's not to say some metal music isn't compressed to hell as well, all shall perish is basically _unlistenable_ on the hd800... but metal has tons of high quality masters with high dynamic range, especially for classical metal tracks.


 
 I think Californication was the watermark - after that, any album with a guitar will be brickwalled to hell.
  
 At some point pop music replaced guitar/keyboard solos with rappers. I guess notes are too thought-provoking. I consider that to apply to the above case; anything with a guitar, or where a guitar used to be.


----------



## akg fanboy

thefitz said:


> I think Californication was the watermark - after that, any album with a guitar will be brickwalled to hell.
> 
> At some point pop music replaced guitar/keyboard solos with rappers. I guess notes are too thought-provoking. I consider that to apply to the above case; anything with a guitar, or where a guitar used to be.


 
 We could go all the way back to the original recording and say any non binaural recording is gimped for headphones. How much dynamic range are we talking about here to be acceptable to you? I don't listen to red hot chili peppers, I'm more of a megadeth and iron maiden kind of guy. Dynamic range although important is not the holy grail of audio quality in my view.


----------



## thefitz

akg fanboy said:


> We could go all the way back to the original recording and say any non binaural recording is gimped for headphones. How much dynamic range are we talking about here to be acceptable to you? I don't listen to red hot chili peppers, I'm more of a megadeth and iron maiden kind of guy. Dynamic range although important is not the holy grail of audio quality in my view.


 

 You know, I have no idea. I know there's a quantitative way of determining dynamic range, but I don't know a whole lot about it or what I consider "good". Open up the waveform of any pop or metal master released after that time and you're going to see a solid block.
  
 I'm not even picking on that album at my own interpretation - I remember reading from a few magazines some around the time of the St. Anger debacle that Californication was the first "big" release that was squashed to hell and everything after that followed suit. Whether everyone was copying that album or that's just how the market naturally headed is unknown to me - I just understood that Californication was the first time people went "whoa, man...." and it has only gotten worse.


----------



## Yoga

coltmrfire said:


> I think I already mentioned this, but I've had sonarworks for a long time, and used it with my other Senns.  I don't do computer audio anymore, but I did try it with the 800 and liked it.


 
  
 Ah righto, can't remember. Fair do's!


----------



## fjrabon

thefitz said:


> You know, I have no idea. I know there's a quantitative way of determining dynamic range, but I don't know a whole lot about it or what I consider "good". Open up the waveform of any pop or metal master released after that time and you're going to see a solid block.
> 
> I'm not even picking on that album at my own interpretation - I remember reading from a few magazines some around the time of the St. Anger debacle that Californication was the first "big" release that was squashed to hell and everything after that followed suit. Whether everyone was copying that album or that's just how the market naturally headed is unknown to me - I just understood that Californication was the first time people went "whoa, man...." and it has only gotten worse.




Definitely, Maybe by Oasis is generally considered the first album to really push brick wall mastering to the ultimate extreme. They wanted to make the loudest effing album of all time. Regardless, things were definitely at the extreme end of compression well before Californication came out. Californication was basically par for the pop rock course in '99 compression wise.


----------



## akg fanboy

thefitz said:


> You know, I have no idea. I know there's a quantitative way of determining dynamic range, but I don't know a whole lot about it or what I consider "good". Open up the waveform of any pop or metal master released after that time and you're going to see a solid block.
> 
> I'm not even picking on that album at my own interpretation - I remember reading from a few magazines some around the time of the St. Anger debacle that Californication was the first "big" release that was squashed to hell and everything after that followed suit. Whether everyone was copying that album or that's just how the market naturally headed is unknown to me - I just understood that Californication was the first time people went "whoa, man...." and it has only gotten worse.


 
 Yeah I noticed a solid block when opening up an all shall perish music file at audacity... no surprise there. Other music I had no problems with didn't have a block like waveform which makes sense. I don't know much about st. anger either other than the fact that metallica people don't like it lol. My iron maiden songs show an average of 18db of dynamic range that varies from 14db to 22db or so, and my modern metal recordings are usually on average 11db with 8-15db of dynamic range. In my experience with a very high dynamic range album (non classical) with an average of 25-30db of dynamic range, it was a bit disorienting and I turned up the volume more than I usually do


----------



## thefitz

fjrabon said:


> Definitely, Maybe by Oasis is generally considered the first album to really push brick wall mastering to the ultimate extreme. They wanted to make the loudest effing album of all time. Regardless, things were definitely at the extreme end of compression well before Californication came out. Californication was basically par for the pop rock course in '99 compression wise.


 

 Right, I'm saying that I read Californication was a benchmark from where before it was released there were still some decent masters around, and after it was released there were none. I'm not saying it was an innovator of brickwalling. There were plenty good masters between 1994 and 1999 in popular music. After that? Apparently not.


----------



## fjrabon

thefitz said:


> Right, I'm saying that I read Californication was a benchmark from where before it was released there were still some decent masters around, and after it was released there were none. I'm not saying it was an innovator of brickwalling. There were plenty good masters between 1994 and 1999 in popular music. After that? Apparently not.




Part of it is that the definition of pop changed around that time. What was considered pop rock in the 90s started getting called "alt rock" in the 2000s. AM by arctic monkeys is fairly dynamic. It's not musically differentiable from what was called pop in the 90s. Radiohead were considered pop in the 90s and alt in the 2000s, and their music actually became LESS compressed.


----------



## FLTWS

akg fanboy said:


> I fear that as well, the earpads are thin so I wouldn't want those to flatten out either, that's why I don't have a headphone stand. I just lay them on my desk or the box it came from


 
  


sennheiser yo said:


> I bought a wooden omega headphone stand and I was wondering if they damage the headphones at all since the headphone's are being stretched out a little while they are on


 
  

 That's why I like the Woo stands with my Senns.


----------



## Poki

coltmrfire said:


> ."HD800 is so bloody amazing."


 
  
 I wholeheartedly agreed. 
  
 Just to share how impressed I am: I spent more time with _this _800 (in my home office) than my mid-fi 5 B&W (2x802D+1HTM1+2x805) speaker set up (powered by 3 Rotel Amps) in an acoustic treated (but still poor due to TWF) "audio" (aka family) room.
  
 The HD800 certainly is not better than the B&W's.  However, my HD800 (w/ a modest OTL Amp + DAC or GD m9xx) *is* good enough as a substitute/trade-off entertaining my ears while surfing the Net.  
  
 Its benefit-cost ratio is unreal as I spent more on my pair of speaker cables than my HD800 (purchased new). Its sound stage is simply... incredible.  
  
 Now if I can only find an equivalent (and light) closed can so I can use that in my office too, I will be an even happier camper.


----------



## johnjen

coltmrfire said:


> I think I know now why I rejected pop music so thoroughly in the past...
> 
> Until you start hearing that stuff like it was mastered in the studio, it can come off as grating and harsh and not very involving.
> 
> ...


 
 These traits are what I call hearing your music as if anew, all over again.
 And this ability to do this repeatedly is all the more amazing as the system becomes all the more refined.
  
 And at least in part, this is what I was referring to when I posted about being able to listen to ANY music and hearing into it with a depth of appreciation and enjoyment that previously simply wasn't available.
  
 Even/especially the horrendously poorly recorded/mastered/produced music as well.
  
 JJ


----------



## MickeyVee

I've been using the Omega stand for years until... I borrowed my friends HD800S and the very first thing I noticed was how flat my ear pads were.  Just got used to them but I do attribute it to the Omega stand. I immediately ordered a new set of pads and switched to the Codia T1 stand.
  
  
 Quote:


akg fanboy said:


> I fear that as well, the earpads are thin so I wouldn't want those to flatten out either, that's why I don't have a headphone stand. I just lay them on my desk or the box it came from


----------



## Ani1000

Neutral, natural, detailed sound+ a big soundstage and great instrument separation = great sound. 
That's why im always disappointed in other phones i try, none offer the complete package of the HD800. 
I haven't tried the Utopia but i dont care anyway there is no way I'm spending 4k on headphones.
I really can't understand how anything can sound better than this.


----------



## mrmarano

sennheiser yo said:


> I bought a wooden omega headphone stand and I was wondering if they damage the headphones at all since the headphone's are being stretched out a little while they are on


 
  
 I used a Woo Audio stand for a while, and found my HD650 headband cushions had permanently compressed resting on its broad arced metal arm.
  
 I switched to Master and Dynamic stands for my HD650 and HD800. The headband rests on the steel cylinder at the crown notch; the pads straddle it without contact. No more flat cushions.
  
 Many folks complain the stands look flimsy. They most certainly are not; they're very robust and stable, and the perfect height for Sennheiser cans.


----------



## fjrabon

mrmarano said:


> I used a Woo Audio stand for a while, and found my HD650 headband cushions had permanently compressed resting on its broad arced metal arm.
> 
> I switched to Master and Dynamic stands for my HD650 and HD800. The headband rests on the steel cylinder at the crown notch; the pads straddle it without contact. No more flat cushions.
> 
> Many folks complain the stands look flimsy. They most certainly are not; they're very robust and stable, and the perfect height for Sennheiser cans.


 
  
   
 Yeah, designs like the master and dynamic stand are pretty terrible for most headphones, as they create a permanent notch in the middle.  Oddly they're particularly awful for Master and Dynamic's own headphones.  However, Sennheiser's high end headphones already have a notch in the middle, so those types of designs tend to work well there.
  
 I like this stand: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01A09KCJ4
  
 The head rest is silicone, and it's almost too small for the HD800, but it ends out working perfectly, because it means that it more cradles the headband than resting completely flat.  And since it's flexible silicone it keeps too much weight from laying on a pressure point.  It covers pretty much the entire pad area of the HD800 headband padding.  The cable management solution is also easy and elegant.  To me it makes way more sense than vertical cable wraps.  It also allows you to put adapters in the middle of it and they won't roll off your desk.  It's also cheap but sturdy.  And I think very good looking in a simple sort of way.  Color scheme works well with HD800, but maybe even better with HD800S.


----------



## DavidA

@fjrabon
  , aside from the EL8/TH-X00 we seem to like the same sort of headphone stands, this is what I currently use, a modified one from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/LUXA2-HO-HDP-ALE1SI-00-Headphone-Sennheiser-Plantronics/dp/B00MCVOILM/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1482505698&sr=8-20&keywords=headphone+stand

 Added the memory foam wrapped in leather to the top of the stand.
 I've also used an old tripod like this:

 a 1/8 section of 8in PVC pipe covered with a thin foam padding and leather.


----------



## JamieMcC

I've made a few headphone stands now for my different cans the HD800 are perfect for the hanging type as they have the little break in the padding at the middle of the headband.
  
 These are my favorites


----------



## MWSVette

jamiemcc said:


> I've made a few headphone stands now for my different cans the HD800 are perfect for the hanging type as they have the little break in the padding at the middle of the headband.
> 
> These are my favorites


 
  
 Very nice...


----------



## ColtMrFire

I literally made my own headphone stand out of a small lamp I wasn't using.  It has a flexible arm that I could curl for the headphones to rest on, and I cut the cord, and unscrewed the lamp shade.  Saved myself a few bucks,


----------



## Yoga

ani1000 said:


> Neutral, natural, detailed sound+ a big soundstage and great instrument separation = great sound.
> That's why im always disappointed in other phones i try, none offer the complete package of the HD800.
> I haven't tried the Utopia but i dont care anyway there is no way I'm spending 4k on headphones.
> I really can't understand how anything can sound better than this.


 

 The stock HD800 are not natural (flat), by any stretch of the imagination. You may be used to the sound, but that's as far as it goes.


----------



## akg fanboy

according to sennheiser, the hd800 was diffuse field loudness equalized to match how human ears perceive frequencies. They are leaps more neutral than the hd600 to me, you can say what you want about the 6khz peak, but they are pretty neutral otherwise


----------



## JaZZ

akg fanboy said:


> according to sennheiser, the hd800 was diffuse field loudness equalized to match how human ears perceive frequencies. They are leaps more neutral than the hd600 to me, you can say what you want about the 6khz peak, but they are pretty neutral otherwise


 
  
 I agree with that. But the 6 kHz hump was definitely irritating to my ears from the start. Otherwise I would also classify it as one of the most neutral headphones. Nevertheless, _SonarWorks' _equalizer curve still shows some remarkable deviations from a neutral tonal balance.


----------



## ColtMrFire

The 600 sounds downright colored next to the 800.  800 sounds dead neutral to me through my setup.  
  
 The peak doesn't bother me 99% of the time.


----------



## fjrabon

I mean if you do a sine wave sweep, they're pretty clearly not neutral. Maybe they're neutral to somebody with gobs of high frequency hearing loss?


----------



## JaZZ

fjrabon said:


> I mean if you do a sine wave sweep, they're pretty clearly not neutral. Maybe they're neutral to somebody with gobs of high frequency hearing loss?


 
  
 As far as I understand headphone tuning, you won't get a linear frequency response on the ear drums neither with free-field nor with diffuse-field equalization. The goal is rather to emulate the tonal characteristic of a pair of speakers or an orchestra playing in front of you, thus with a much flatter angle than the almost 90° impact from headphone drivers. So the impression from a sine sweep may not exactly be a reliable reference.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I would like to hear a neutral headphone if the 800 isn't it.  I'm curious now.


----------



## JaZZ

coltmrfire said:


> I would like to hear a neutral headphone if the 800 isn't it.  I'm curious now.


 
  
 As stated, the HD 800 may be one of the most neutral ones, although possibly not to everyone's ears. But a perfect frequency response is an unachievable goal – I haven't met a perfectly neutral sounding headphone so far, and the measurements on Inner Fidelity indicate that such a thing doesn't exist. However, equalizing will bring you much closer.


----------



## Me x3

fjrabon said:


> I mean if you do a sine wave sweep, they're pretty clearly not neutral. Maybe they're neutral to somebody with gobs of high frequency hearing loss?


 
 If you do a sine sweep and the headphone is clearly neutral you'll perceive something along the lines of an inverted equal loudness contour.


----------



## Me x3

When discussing neutrality we should keep two things in mind.
  
 1- Person to Person hearing variance
 2- Recordings are all over the place in terms of balance
  
 What's neutral for Person A is not for Person B and what's neutral for Recording C is not neutral for Recording D.
  
 In my experience, HD800 can sound relatively neutral with certain recordings and very unnatural with others.
 The 6kHz peak is something but the main issue to me is that it starts raising too early at around 4kHz so there's a big amount of energy between 5kHz and 6kHz relative to other headphones that normally sound less steely. That's the main coloration imparted by HD800 in my book which by the way is significanlty worse on HD700.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> I would like to hear a neutral headphone if the 800 isn't it.  I'm curious now.



The HD800 with sonarworks applied in the "flat" setting is more or less what I consider neutral. If I record something with a high quality microphone and listen directly next to where I was set up, it sounds virtually identical with that sonarworks setting applied. Just stock, there's about 7dB too little bass below 100Hz and 6 dB too much in the 4-7kHz range. 

In stock form, the abyss is probably the closest I've heard to a neutral headphone.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

coltmrfire said:


> I would like to hear a neutral headphone if the 800 isn't it.  I'm curious now.




Sr009 and BHSE


----------



## Ani1000

What i meant by neutral and natural sounding is, instruments and voices sound closest to real life, and sound itself is the most realistic i heard in headphones, the headphones dissappear and leaves you with pure sound, to *my* ears, I'm not exactly sure these are the right terms, and I'm having a hard time describing it, but no other headphone i tried sounded this realistic to me.
Grado and AKG sounded unnatural to me for some reason, never tried the T1 i might like it better than HD800, but i doubt it.


----------



## akg fanboy

A headphone that is tuned to be literally flat on the graph will not sound flat to our ears because of our ear canals. A lot of things you hear in real life can be sibilant. Headphones do not compare to speakers for true to life representations though


----------



## Me x3

ani1000 said:


> What i meant by neutral and natural sounding is, instruments and voices sound closest to real life, and sound itself is the most realistic i heard in headphones, *the headphones dissappear and leaves you with pure sound*, to *my* ears, I'm not exactly sure these are the right terms, and I'm having a hard time describing it, but no other headphone i tried sounded this realistic to me.
> Grado and AKG sounded unnatural to me for some reason, never tried the T1 i might like it better than HD800, but i doubt it.


 
 That's what people normally refer with the term " transparency "
 And HD800 is among the most transparent headphones around.
  
 What's debatable is whether that pure sound you get is life-like or not.


----------



## fjrabon

me x3 said:


> That's what people normally refer with the term " transparency "
> And HD800 is among the most transparent headphones around.
> 
> What's debatable is whether that pure sound you get is life-like or not.


 

 yeah, it sounds like he's talking a bit about transparency plus a lifelike distortion break down (ie something like a room effect).  That is different from "neutral" which most people generally mean as a frequency response that is unbiased at any given frequency, ie pure loudness represents what was recorded.
  
 To me:
  
 Neutral = if you were to take a perfectly flat microphone (or more accurately binaurally paired microphones) and listened theoretically at the same exact place, the resulting recording would have the same loudness at all parts of the frequency response of the fundamental tones (but not necessarily the harmonics).
  
 Transparent = basically a very low amount of THD.  There's also some issues with phase response, and driver matching, but it's mostly just low distortion.  Often transparency goes hand in hand with soundstage, because a transparent phone is often better able to preserve subtle spatial cues.  But this isn't always the case.
  
 Natural = THD breaks down such that the harmonic distortion reduces in each successive harmonic geometrically. ie the 3rd harmonic contains less distortion than the 2nd, and the 4th less than the 3rd and so forth.
  
 The HD800 maxes out transparency, with only the SR009, Abyss and Utopia either matching it or coming fairly close.  However, in it's stock form on some garden variety solid state amp, to my ears, it's not quite natural and it's not quite neutral.  It's not awful in either of those, but not there.  Too much 4-7kHz, not enough 80 Hz.  and more distortion in the 4th and 5th harmonics than the 2nd and 3rd.
  
 The Focal Spirit Classic, as an example is actually closer to neutral, but it's a pretty large miss (compared to the HD800) in transparency and naturalness.  The LCD4 is fairly close to neutral (maybe a touch rolled off in the treble, but not by much) and is very natural, but misses slightly in transparency.  
  
 SR009 nails transparency, maybe even edging the HD800 by a tiny amount, and is very natural in the midrange and treble, but the bass lacks in both body (naturalness) and amount (neutrality) by a bit.  
  
 Transparency, to me, is the holy grail, because you can't "fix" a headphone that lacks transparency.  Neutrality can be "fixed" with EQ or maybe mods.  Naturalness can sometimes be fixed with an amp.  But a headphone that lacks transparency can only get worse, it can't be improved.  No amp is going to bring any real transparency to the Audio Technica M50X, for example.  
  
 This is why I chose the HD800, because it's a beast in transparency and soundstage and I could fix neutrality and naturalness with EQ and amp matching respectively.  After that it just came down to finding a DAC that could feed it as much detail as possible.  Of course it's better if the headphone itself is transparent, natural and neutral, but if you have to pick one and make compromises on the others, for a desktop setup, it's probably better to max out transparency and address the others elsewhere.


----------



## MacedonianHero

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Sr009 and BHSE


 
 I would say that the Utopias are more "neutral" than the SR-009s.


----------



## Ani1000

@fjrabon
You nailed it 




​


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

macedonianhero said:


> I would say that the Utopias are more "neutral" than the SR-009s.


 

 I haven't seen the frequency graphs, I'm just going off what I heard at the July meet in SF. Either way, I assume the Orpheus Successor must take the cake.


----------



## MacedonianHero

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I haven't seen the frequency graphs, I'm just going off what I heard at the July meet in SF. Either way, I assume the Orpheus Successor must take the cake.


 
 I own both the SR-009 and Utopias and find the Utopias more neutral. Speed and detail retrieval tip in the favour of the Stax headphones.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

macedonianhero said:


> I own both the SR-009 and Utopias and find the Utopias more neutral. Speed and detail retrieval tip in the favour of the Stax headphones.


 

 Through Liquid Lightning or through BHSE?


----------



## Yoga

coltmrfire said:


> I would like to hear a neutral headphone if the 800 isn't it.  I'm curious now.


 

 For the 1000th time - Sonarworks R3 will help you here. _A lot_.
  
 Anyone with HD800 not using it is—IMO—completely missing out on how good they can sound. Akin to buying the Chord DAVE and using Apple earbuds ;¬)
  
 Edit: It appears the Utopia are the most neutral headphone (stock).


----------



## ColtMrFire

yoga said:


> For the 1000th time - Sonarworks R3 will help you here. _A lot_.
> 
> Anyone with HD800 not using it is—IMO—completely missing out on how good they can sound. Akin to buying the Chord DAVE and using Apple earbuds ;¬)


 
  
 I'm not interested in computer audio at this point since coax sounds much better than usb through my Mimby.  I did hear the sonarworks HD800 plugin and it sounded good.  But the inferiority of usb on the Mimby made any improvement a moot point.  My stock 800 through coax sounds much better since it's a better connection.  I believe I've already mentioned this quite a few pages back.


----------



## Yoga

coltmrfire said:


> I'm not interested in computer audio at this point since coax sounds much better than usb through my Mimby.  I did hear the sonarworks HD800 plugin and it sounded good.  But the inferiority of usb on the Mimby made any improvement a moot point.  My stock 800 through coax sounds much better since it's a better connection.  I believe I've already mentioned this quite a few pages back.


 

 Dude, the difference between COAX/stock and HD800/USB/SWR3 will be HUGE in favour of the latter. Inputs have a relatively minor effect on the sound. SWR3 is _significant_; it completely transforms them.

 I use high end—calibrated—studio monitors in a treated studio. Stock HD800 are so far from neutral it's laughable. SWR3 changes that and brings the HD800 much—much—closer to the speaker setup. I prefer HD800+SWR3 to my Abyss rig at the moment!

 You can also use something like the Uptone Regen which does a wonderful job. It made my Prism DAC sound as good over USB as it does through AES (via RME PCIe HDSP AES card).

 Your distain of USB will hold the potential of your HD800 back so much - why do you think I keep saying this?
  
_It's not for my own benefit! _

 GIVE IT A GO!


----------



## ColtMrFire

yoga said:


> Dude, the difference between COAX/stock and HD800/USB/SWR3 will be HUGE in favour of the latter. Inputs have a relatively minor effect on the sound. SWR3 is _significant_; it completely transforms them.
> 
> I use high end—calibrated—studio monitors in a treated studio. Stock HD800 are so far from neutral it's laughable. SWR3 changes that and brings the HD800 much—much—closer to the speaker setup. I prefer HD800+SWR3 to my Abyss rig at the moment!
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't have disdain for USB, it simply doesn't satisfy me at the moment vs coax via the Mimby.  And if we need objective data, coax actually measures far better than usb through the mimby (atomicbob did a thorough job of measuring it)... again, I've said all this before.
  
 And I think you need to accept the fact that your subjective opinion doesn't apply to me.  My ears don't agree with yours.  It happens.
  
 PS - I've used the Regen with the Mimby and it didn't change enough to match coax.


----------



## FLTWS

coltmrfire said:


> I'm not interested in computer audio at this point since coax sounds much better than usb through my Mimby.  I did hear the sonarworks HD800 plugin and it sounded good.  But the inferiority of usb on the Mimby made any improvement a moot point.  My stock 800 through coax sounds much better since it's a better connection.  I believe I've already mentioned this quite a few pages back.


 
  
 With over 2000+ CD's (90% classical) I have no interest in computer audio either. Plus, maybe it's just my imagination, but it seems like 9 out of 10 posts about signal transmission issues (noise, signal integrity, etc.,) revolve around the use of usb. I've spent enough decades fighting with buggy drivers and software issues to integrate hardware peripherals with my flight simulators. Too old to go through that anymore and I have no plans to re-buy my music collection a second time, even if it were available to dl, and from what I've seen very little of it is.
  
 I have had demos of usb sound at several dealerships over the past year with HD800, on devises costing a few hundred dollars to over $7 grand. I was so put off by the sound quality I almost removed the HD800 from any consideration until I got to listen at home for a week+ with my Oppo 105D and at last I heard the potential and I returned to the fray of Hi-End (?) Audio and the "quest" after a 14 year hiatus.
  
 PS: the $7 grand option was the worse sounding of all the lot I've heard so far.


----------



## ColtMrFire

fltws said:


> With over 2000+ CD's (90% classical) I have no interest in computer audio either. Plus, maybe it's just my imagination, but it seems like 9 out of 10 posts about signal transmission issues (noise, signal integrity, etc.,) revolve around the use of usb. I've spent enough decades fighting with buggy drivers and software issues to integrate hardware peripherals with my flight simulators. Too old to go through that anymore and I have no plans to re-buy my music collection a second time, even if it were available to dl, and from what I've seen very little of it is.
> 
> I have had demos of usb sound at several dealerships over the past year with HD800, on devises costing a few hundred dollars to over $7 grand. I was so put off by the sound quality I almost removed the HD800 from any consideration until I got to listen at home for a week+ with my Oppo 105D and at last I heard the potential and I returned to the fray of Hi-End (?) Audio and the "quest" after a 14 year hiatus.
> 
> PS: the $7 grand option was the worse sounding of all the lot I've heard so far.


 
  
 I know what you mean.  When i was using computer audio, alot of my time was spent tweaking settings, changing audio programs and adding things to make the sound incrementally better, rather than enjoying music.  It got tiring.  The last straw was using Bughead Emperor, which sounded superior to anything I'd used, but literally had dozens of ways to configure the sound quality.  It almost drove me mad.
  
 When I switched to coax through my CD player it was a revelation because it sounded so much better, plus there was nothing to tweak, it wasn't necessary.  Just plug and play.  I spent alot more time enjoying music and less time fiddling with things.  Then i got the 800 and the difference between coax and usb became even more obvious, as this headphone will magnify any flaws.


----------



## Yoga

Just for reference my Abyss rig is via the Lumin A1—ethernet—and sounds incredibly organic and natural. I found it equal to an MSB stack using I2S.

 I pushed the point again as you asked about neutrality. Stock HD800 aren't neutral,_ regardless of the source; digital, analogue, USB, CD. It doesn't matter._

 You enjoy their sound signature, all good. We'll leave it there :¬)


----------



## FLTWS

coltmrfire said:


> I know what you mean.  When i was using computer audio, alot of my time was spent tweaking settings, changing audio programs and adding things to make the sound incrementally better, rather than enjoying music.  It got tiring.  The last straw was using Bughead Emperor, which sounded superior to anything I'd used, but literally had dozens of ways to configure the sound quality.  It almost drove me mad.
> 
> When I switched to coax through my CD player it was a revelation because it sounded so much better, plus there was nothing to tweak, it wasn't necessary.  Just plug and play.  I spent alot more time enjoying music and less time fiddling with things.  Then i got the 800 and the difference between coax and usb became even more obvious, as this headphone will magnify any flaws.


 
  
 "more time enjoying music and less time fiddling with things." I think your on to something, LOL. Regarding tweaking, I have acquaintances in the flight sim hobby that are all about the tweak. They have CrayComputer  like rigs that cause brownouts locally but they hardly ever fly. For them it is about the satisfaction of owning and maintaining, say, a Lamborghini, when all they need is a Honda.
 Different strokes...


----------



## ColtMrFire

fltws said:


> "more time enjoying music and less time fiddling with things." I think your on to something, LOL. Regarding tweaking, I have acquaintances in the flight sim hobby that are all about the tweak. They have CrayComputer  like rigs that cause brownouts locally but they hardly ever fly. For them it is about the satisfaction of owning and maintaining, say, a Lamborghini, when all they need is a Honda.
> Different strokes...


 
  
 I actually used to enjoy the tweaking, as each incremental improvement gave me a temporary fix... until I started wondering if I was missing something, and I realized I was just addicted to tweaking and not enjoying music.  Coax kind of forces me to enjoy what's there, since there's nothing to tweak.  I feel alot better about it.  It just so happens coax sounds best through the Mimby, so it works out.


----------



## MacedonianHero

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Through Liquid Lightning or through BHSE?


 
 Either....including a T-2.


----------



## Ani1000

Do you guys feel the T1 gen2 is in the same league as HD800?


----------



## fjrabon

ani1000 said:


> Do you think people feel the T1 gen2 is in the same league as HD800?


 

 it's in the same league for sure.  I can't understand people who prefer it, but that's my own personal opinion.


----------



## Me x3

ani1000 said:


> Do you guys feel the T1 gen2 is in the same league as HD800?


 

 If you like the HD800, then the T1.1 might be a better contender as it's airier and lighter on its feet next to the T1.2
 Skip very early pairs since they were really bright.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

coltmrfire said:


> I don't have disdain for USB, it simply doesn't satisfy me at the moment vs coax via the Mimby.  And if we need objective data, coax actually measures far better than usb through the mimby (atomicbob did a thorough job of measuring it)... again, I've said all this before.
> 
> And I think you need to accept the fact that your subjective opinion doesn't apply to me.  My ears don't agree with yours.  It happens.
> 
> PS - I've used the Regen with the Mimby and it didn't change enough to match coax.




Ethernet to AES/EBU (Yggy) has blown me away whenever I've heard it. If I'm going to leave computer audio, vinyl will be the only reason.


----------



## jibzilla

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Ethernet to AES/EBU (Yggy) has blown me away whenever I've heard it. If I'm going to leave computer audio, vinyl will be the only reason.


 
  
 AES yggy was much more preferable to me as well over usb yggy. If you want to go usb you really need a usb only dac. Keces da-151mk2, Tranquility SE, my current ECP Walnut V will all sound more preferable over usb than their multi connection, similarly priced cousins. Usb over my Walnut V vs. Yggy /AES would actually be a difficult decision. More like different flavors than one is better than the other. Wavelength is another brand that seems to be usb oriented.


----------



## Thenewguy007

fjrabon said:


> The HD800 with sonarworks applied in the "flat" setting is more or less what I consider neutral. If I record something with a high quality microphone and listen directly next to where I was set up, it sounds virtually identical with that sonarworks setting applied. Just stock, there's about 7dB too little bass below 100Hz and 6 dB too much in the 4-7kHz range.
> 
> In stock form, the abyss is probably the closest I've heard to a neutral headphone.




I thought the Abyss had a slight midrange suck out.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I tried it in July out of the forthcoming WA22SE, and it wasn't to my taste. On the first piano concerto of Liszt the bass sounded thick and slightly muddy; it lacked the precision of HD800 or HE-6.


----------



## Joong

Is there comparison between he-6 and hd800.
I could not read through this long thread.


----------



## Joong

I have been through planar phones mostly and looking for best phones for classical orchestral works.
HD 800 might be possibly best choice?


----------



## TWerk

twiceboss said:


> Well dont get me wrong.* Im just finding a forgiving treble headphone with the bass at par with my current th600*. It's hard to find dark sounding but with good clarity and punchy bass. Not gonna use it for any other except edm. I have hd800 for other genre. Any recommendations?


 
  
 This is the DT1770. Awesome bass, extended sub bass and impact, with relaxed treble and smooth mids. Similar design and closed back like TH600 too. I agree, hard to find good punchy bass without trble being fatiguing, but this is the DT1770.


----------



## fjrabon

joong said:


> Is there comparison between he-6 and hd800.
> I could not read through this long thread.




"Search this thread"


----------



## DavidA

joong said:


> I have been through planar phones mostly and looking for best phones for classical orchestral works.
> HD 800 might be possibly best choice?


 
 Best for classical orchestra would be SR-009 IMO, second choice HD-800 then T1g1.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

davida said:


> Best for classical orchestra would be SR-009 IMO, second choice HD-800 then T1g1.


 

 The detail retrieval is better on SR009. Perhaps the quality of the bass as well (quantity is a toss up). Soundstage is HD800, easily, or K1000, even more easily.


----------



## Hansotek

bosiemoncrieff said:


> The detail retrieval is better on SR009. Perhaps the quality of the bass as well (quantity is a toss up). Soundstage is HD800, easily, or K1000, even more easily.




[The bass response] Depends on the cable, amp and DAC. The HD800 is definitely capable of going warmer, but the SR-009 can be pretty satisfying on the low end with the Liquid Lightning TT and the Blue Hawaii.


----------



## Ani1000

How close does the HD800 get me to electrostatic "sound"? 
Is it the closest dynamic to an electrostatic? 
I ask because i never heard an electrostatic in my life, so i have to wonder what am i missing.


----------



## Hansotek

ani1000 said:


> How close does the HD800 get me to electrostatic "sound"?
> Is it the closest dynamic to an electrostatic?
> I ask because i never heard an electrostatic in my life, so i have to wonder what am i missing.




IMO, the HD800 with the DanaCable Lazuli through the Cavalli Liquid Crimson sounds a heck of a lot like the Mr. Speakers Electrostatic prototype (which is better than the SR-009, IMHO) through the Blue Hawaii - there's simply not a ton more to gain at that point. I mean, it and the 009 are very, very slightly more detailed, but we're talking 0.01%. 

But there is something special about the ease with which music is conveyed on electrostatics. Honestly, it's worth it for you to just grab an old pair of SR-Lambdas and the SRM-1 MkII (probably $600 for the whole shebang) or even the current entry-level Stax setup (which really isn't that much more) just to see what they are all about. 

In the same way that planars bring bass, dynamism and visceral physicality to the music, e-stats deliver air, transparency, clarity and effortless ease. Music just floats out of them. What is really special is listening to well recorded classical or binaural recordings on e-stats.... no matter how complicated it gets, the headphone never struggles, the music just flows. For that reason, even the entry-level Stax hold up pretty well to the HD800, they just don't go wildly above and below it like all other types of headphones do.


----------



## Yoga

thenewguy007 said:


> I thought the Abyss had a slight midrange suck out.


 

 It does indeed, until you power it with the right amp. Then it's magic.


----------



## fjrabon

ani1000 said:


> How close does the HD800 get me to electrostatic "sound"?
> Is it the closest dynamic to an electrostatic?
> I ask because i never heard an electrostatic in my life, so i have to wonder what am i missing.




First is the question of what an "electrostatic sound" means. While the SR007 is a very different sound from the SR009, even within stax's lineuo, I think there are some things people mean by "electrostatic sound." To me, the biggest is midrange transparency. There's a certain startlingly lifelike transparency to a great electrostatic midrange. It can border on spooky, you start looking around the room for things you *know* are recorded. Secondly, is an airy treble that isn't harsh or sharp edged. Electrostatics have a remarkable way of being able to present even treble heavy music without being fatiguing. Finally, the generalized drawback is that electrostatic headphones tend to have a softer, less full bodied bass. Not always just in amount, but even beyond that, they often lack a sort of visceral oomph from the bass that some dynamics can apply.

 Also, as a point of reference, when it comes to the estat sound, my main reference is the Stax SR009 thorough a KGSSHV carbon, as one of my close friends has that setup, and I've spent dozens of hours listening to it. 

To me, getting the best aspects of the estat sound is where amp matching is most important on the HD800. With a truly dynamic amp, with a solid power supply and ample current that's immediately available to be supplied, the HD800 can sound very e-stat like in the mids and lower treble. The bass will always be "harder" on the HD800 than an e-stat, which while imho a good thing, is a difference that will always tell you right away that you aren't listening to an e-stat. The HD800's treble, especially inmodified and unEQd is much more fatiguing than a great estat setup. Soundstage wise, the HD800 beats any estat I've heard. 

However, as close as the HD800 can come to a e-stat like transparency in the midrange, it never quite gets to the level of the SR009 (when well amped)

If you're asking which is better, that's a different question entirely, as I think overall I'd still prefer my HD800 setup the way I have it working. And it's cheaper. But as far as ability to sound electrostatic like, the HD800 can get close, but it's all about the right amp. With my T3, when we added the constant current supplies, that's what tipped it over the edge and allowed the midrange to start getting pretty close to estat like. Sonarworks and great tubes made the treble less piercing, and thus more estat like. The bass has the speed of estats now, but way more impact.


----------



## Sorrodje

fjrabon said:


> Soundstage wise, the HD800 beats any estat I've heard.


 
  
 Did you ever hear a Sennheiser E-Stat ?  HE60 or HE90 or maybe HE-1 ?


----------



## Ani1000

@fjrabon
Thanks for the post , I'm blown away by your knowledge and the way you use words.


----------



## fjrabon

sorrodje said:


> Did you ever hear a Sennheiser E-Stat ?  HE60 or HE90 or maybe HE-1 ?




I've heard the original Orpheus, though briefly. "Blows away" is probably overstating it, but the HD800 is a bit wider and deeper. At this level it may also come down to ear physiology as well. For some people the HD800's angled driver's makes a bigger or smaller difference.


----------



## Sorrodje

fjrabon said:


> I've heard the original Orpheus, though briefly. "Blows away" is probably overstating it, but the HD800 is a bit wider and deeper. At this level it may also come down to ear physiology as well. For some people the HD800's angled driver's makes a bigger or smaller difference.


 
  
 IME  ( I had a good session with the HE90 a few weeks ago and I own the HE60 ) sennheiser Stats competes with the HD800 in term of soundstage. Different but i wouldn't say the HD800 is better. As much as i love my HD800 , HE60 and HE90 offer both  a more "natural" presentation wheread the HD800 soundstage is more typical of headphones where elements are a bit spread off in a large sphere around the head. HE60 & HE90 offer a better sense of infinite/borderless soundstage with more focus in the center.  I Love both presentation and I much prefer them to any Stax. The best soundstage I heard from a Stax was 007's one.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

sorrodje said:


> IME  ( I had a good session with the HE90 a few weeks ago and I own the HE60 ) sennheiser Stats competes with the HD800 in term of soundstage. Different but i wouldn't say the HD800 is better. As much as i love my HD800 , HE60 and HE90 offer both  a more "natural" presentation wheread the HD800 soundstage is more typical of headphones where elements are a bit spread off in a large sphere around the head. HE60 & HE90 offer a better sense of infinite/borderless soundstage with more focus in the center.  I Love both presentation and I much prefer them to any Stax. The best soundstage I heard from a Stax was 007's one.


 

 What percent of HE90 is HE60, in your opinion?


----------



## Sorrodje

They're different . it's hard to say. I' wouldn't choose the HE90 over my HE60 for most of the music I listen to but for Classical , the HE90 wins hands down.  The HE60 is more fun, punchy , forward. The HE90 sounds more "grand" with thicker mids maybe a tiny bit slower with diffuse bass whereas the HE60 is more punchy.  Dunno if my experience can be translated to every HE90 and HE60. Those old headphones are sometimes not in the best shape after years.


----------



## fjrabon

sorrodje said:


> IME  ( I had a good session with the HE90 a few weeks ago and I own the HE60 ) sennheiser Stats competes with the HD800 in term of soundstage. Different but i wouldn't say the HD800 is better. As much as i love my HD800 , HE60 and HE90 offer both  a more "natural" presentation wheread the HD800 soundstage is more typical of headphones where elements are a bit spread off in a large sphere around the head. HE60 & HE90 offer a better sense of infinite/borderless soundstage with more focus in the center.  I Love both presentation and I much prefer them to any Stax. The best soundstage I heard from a Stax was 007's one.


 

 yeah, I should always state this, that when I'm referring to the HD800's soundstage, I'm referring to it with crossfeed on.  For me, the crossfeed program I use fix the issue you refer to with the HD800's soundstage and allow it to have the naturalness you talk about with the orpheus, but also a bit bigger still than the orpheus.  That's obviously not fair to the orpheus, since I took like a month to optimize my settings for the HD800.  
  
 and to also point out, the Orpheii (plural of orpheus?) have much better soundstage than typical electrostats.  When I think about "the electrostatic sound" I really think more stax than Orpheus, I kind of think as the Orpheii as their own thing.


----------



## akg fanboy

The whole point of soundstage is for everything to seem like it is spread out more. Anything below the HD800 is far from natural, I would disagree with anyone that says the HD800 has an artificially large soundstage when even the HD800 falls quite short compared to speakers. Anything below the HD800 has an even more apparent "headstage" headphone signature to it


----------



## Arniesb

akg fanboy said:


> The whole point of soundstage is for everything to seem like it is spread out more. Anything below the HD800 is far from natural, I would disagree with anyone that says the HD800 has an artificially large soundstage when even the HD800 falls quite short compared to speakers. Anything below the HD800 has an even more apparent "headstage" headphone signature to it


+1 For me moving from closed back to open backs was a big difference. HD800 Series in my opinion have such a soundstage boost like coming from closed to open. Still it falls short in comparison to Speakers in soundstage comparison. I Thought T1 had excellent stage, but it falls short in comparison to HD800S. Every time pick my T1 i feel like i coming from 5.1 to 2.1


----------



## fjrabon

akg fanboy said:


> The whole point of soundstage is for everything to seem like it is spread out more.


 
  
 I very much disagree with this.  Larger isn't always better.  To me, the best soundstage is one that most accurately represents the music as recorded (when recording acoustic live performance).  For non acoustic live music, the soundstage should give an appropriate amount of space, should be coherent and connected, and should contain subtlety up, down, left, right, forward and back.  Just throwing gobs of space at the issue, but having large gaps in the soundstage is awful to me.  
  
 The point of soudnstage isn't to spread things out, it's to create a 3 dimensional space for the music to sit.  subtlety is key for having a mature, great soundstage.  

 Compare the Audio Technica AD700's soundstage, for example, to the soundstage on a Stax SR009.  The Audio Technica's is actually larger, by an appreciable amount.  The SR009's stage though is much more subtle, precise, layered and coherent.


----------



## akg fanboy

fjrabon said:


> I very much disagree with this.  Larger isn't always better.  To me, the best soundstage is one that most accurately represents the music as recorded (when recording acoustic live performance).  For non acoustic live music, the soundstage should give an appropriate amount of space, should be coherent and connected, and should contain subtlety up, down, left, right, forward and back.  Just throwing gobs of space at the issue, but having large gaps in the soundstage is awful to me.
> 
> The point of soudnstage isn't to spread things out, it's to create a 3 dimensional space for the music to sit.  subtlety is key for having a mature, great soundstage.
> 
> Compare the Audio Technica AD700's soundstage, for example, to the soundstage on a Stax SR009.  The Audio Technica's is actually larger, by an appreciable amount.  The SR009's stage though is much more subtle, precise, layered and coherent.


 
 So you're going to tell me that speakers don't present a natural soundstage since they have a wider soundstage than the hd800? Based on your logic, since the hd800 presents a soundstage that is not natural or "true to the recording" all the time, a speaker which has an even larger soundstage would be even more unnatural....
  
 Pretty sure soundstage is just an illusion of instruments being further or closer up and what we call the "imaging" is what aids in the "3D" presentation. No doubt the sr009 surpasses the ad700 in imaging


----------



## MattTCG

fjrabon said:


> I very much disagree with this.  Larger isn't always better.  To me, the best soundstage is one that most accurately represents the music as recorded (when recording acoustic live performance).  For non acoustic live music, the soundstage should give an appropriate amount of space, should be coherent and connected, and should contain subtlety up, down, left, right, forward and back.  Just throwing gobs of space at the issue, but having large gaps in the soundstage is awful to me.
> 
> The point of soudnstage isn't to spread things out, it's to create a 3 dimensional space for the music to sit.  subtlety is key for having a mature, great soundstage.
> 
> Compare the Audio Technica AD700's soundstage, for example, to the soundstage on a Stax SR009.  The Audio Technica's is actually larger, by an appreciable amount.  The SR009's stage though is much more subtle, precise, layered and coherent.


 
  
 I would agree with this. Sound stage has always been difficult for me to get my brain around. I always wider, deeper, taller=better. For me personally, the most enjoyable sound stage is one that is believable. And for me that means separation and space/air between the singer(s) and musicians. Once I have that "believable space" on the stage, then my level of enjoyment goes way up.


----------



## fjrabon

akg fanboy said:


> So you're going to tell me that speakers don't present a natural soundstage since they have a wider soundstage than the hd800? Based on your logic, since the hd800 presents a soundstage that is not natural or "true to the recording" all the time, a speaker which has an even larger soundstage would be even more unnatural....
> 
> Pretty sure soundstage is just an illusion of instruments being further or closer up and what we call the "imaging" is what aids in the "3D" presentation. No doubt the sr009 surpasses the ad700 in imaging


 

 no, I'm going to say that speakers present a natural soundstage not because they're wider, but because most recordings were designed for speakers, and thus the panning done by the engineers comes together into a more cohesive whole than they do on headphones.  Most recordings are designed so that the image "comes together in the air" not as separately interpreted by individual ears in isolated "booths"  
  
 My disagreement is solely with your statement that "soundstage quality = soundstage width"
  
 It's much more subtle than that.


----------



## akg fanboy

fjrabon said:


> no, I'm going to say that speakers present a natural soundstage not because they're wider, but because most recordings were designed for speakers, and thus the panning done by the engineers comes together into a more cohesive whole than they do on headphones.  Most recordings are designed so that the image "comes together in the air" not as separately interpreted by individual ears in isolated "booths"
> 
> My disagreement is solely with your statement that "soundstage quality = soundstage width"
> 
> It's much more subtle than that.


 
 Yeah I will agree that recordings sound more natural through speakers. I haven't heard of a headphone that presents a natural soundstage, or should I say "presentation" to me. the hd800 is the best compromise to me. If I'm not mistaken, the drivers should be facing towards you rather than on your ear since that's how most sound works. Unless you had instruments surrounding you, I would say no headphones present music naturally. The only time where headphones sound natural is in gaming since the sound is supposed to come at all angles.
  
 I didn't say quantity equals quality. I like to separate soundstage, imaging, and instrument separation as separate categories. I have heard some headphones with very wide soundstages but uncomparable instrument separation for example. My point was to say no matter how good the imaging and instrument separation is, a small soundstage will never sound natural to me in a headphone. Speakers don't necessarily need a comparitively "wide" soundstage to sound natural though


----------



## fjrabon

matttcg said:


> I would agree with this. Sound stage has always been difficult for me to get my brain around. I always wider, deeper, taller=better. For me personally, the most enjoyable sound stage is one that is believable. And for me that means separation and space/air between the singer(s) and musicians. Once I have that "believable space" on the stage, then my level of enjoyment goes way up.


 

 yeah, I would certainly agree that the problem with *most* headphones is that the soundstage is too flat and "in your head."  Headphones, though, have always had a second issue of being "disconnected" as well, it's just that the flatness problem has almost always outweighed the disconnected problem unless the record was hard panned (think early beatles).  The HD800 was maybe the first headphone that was actually able to go so far in creating a large soundstage with depth that the other issue with headphone soundstage, for some people, may have taken precedence: the "3 blobs of sound" issue where things are so spread out that gaps develop.  I actually prefer headphones that take a small step back from the HD800 soundstage wise, so that theings aren't quite so disconnected.  However it may be that my ears are more sensitive to this issue than most, IDK.  Now the benefit of the HD800, FOR ME, is that if you start wide, and give it some crossfeed to approximate a live listening room effect, its ability to start so wide for a headphone means it can give an amazing soundstage.  But without crossfeed, I prefer the soundstage of the SR009 and Utopia to that of the HD800.  Now, that isn't to say I dislike the HD800's soundstage without crossfeed.  I'd take it every single time over, say, a Grado RS series.  I'm comparing it to some of the best headphones in the world.


----------



## Ani1000

The best soundstage= a soundstage you don't think about when listening to music ! 
And it's the case with HD800 95% of the time, sometimes it's too wide, but even that is not such a bad thing. 
After listening to HD800 and then trying other different headphones, the sound is unnatural and closed in, that is when you start thinking about the soundstage, or lack of it. 
Another critical thing is that the soundstage contributes to the instrument separation, on the HD800, i hear every sound in their own space easily, and on other phones i kind of hear all of the sounds one on top of another(Grado for example) , and that is super unnatural sounding. 
Sorry, i don't know all the audiophile terms lol.


----------



## akg fanboy

That's how I feel. The only time I don't like the hd800 is for bad recordings or very old metal/rock recordings


----------



## fjrabon

one other issue, when talking about soundstage "width" is that there are two ways to measure width, and it's not always clear which version a person is talking about: Angular and linear.  
  
 a quick (ugly) sketch may illustrate this:
  

  
 So, if you're speaking angular width, the HD800 has drastically more width than even the best 2 channel setup.  However, due to the 2-channel's greater ability to express depth, it can seem to have drastically more width in terms of linear width, even though it only has about 70 degrees of angular width.  
  
 After reading a lot of people talk about soundstage, I think what they usually mean is some weird combination of linear width and angular width.  They use the two interchnagably, when they're not interchangeable at all.
  
 But most headphones are more like the SR325e, where it doesn't really matter, because the soundstage is so congested that things actually overlap from central points inside your head, and it's almost impossible to even gauge what the angular or linear width are, because they're disorientingly close.


----------



## akg fanboy

fjrabon said:


> one other issue, when talking about soundstage "width" is that there are two ways to measure width, and it's not always clear which version a person is talking about: Angular and linear.
> 
> a quick (ugly) sketch may illustrate this:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Doesn't that have something to do with crossfeed? When talking about soundstage, I'm just generally expressing how I perceive the distance of the instruments and positioning to be. I don't really like to get into specifics about height, depth, width. But I can see what you're talking about, and cool sketch


----------



## fjrabon

akg fanboy said:


> Doesn't that have something to do with crossfeed? When talking about soundstage, I'm just generally expressing how I perceive the distance of the instruments and positioning to be. I don't really like to get into specifics about height, depth, width. But I can see what you're talking about, and cool sketch




Some of its crossfeed. Some is simply the closeness of the driver to the ear on headphones lessens their ability to "throw depth" like speakers can. Good crossfeed helps a lot, but it's still not quite to where speakers are.


----------



## Ani1000

Is the Mojo's amp powerful enough for HD800? I want a one unit DAC/amp but not sure this is it.


----------



## fjrabon

ani1000 said:


> Is the Mojo's amp powerful enough for HD800? I want a one unit DAC/amp but not sure this is it.




Depends on how loudly you listen, but yes, probably it's powerful enough for you.


----------



## Ani1000

WhaT will i be missing without a dedicated amp besides volume ?


----------



## Thenewguy007

ani1000 said:


> WhaT will i be missing without a dedicated amp besides volume ?




Everything!
Bass, wider staging, more weight to the music, higher resolution, micro & macro dynamics.

The debate on the best amp that can get the most out of the HD800 is always ongoing & the prices go several times higher than the actual costs of the headphone.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

DNA Stratus is a good place to start.


----------



## Yoga

thenewguy007 said:


> Everything!
> Bass, wider staging, more weight to the music, higher resolution, micro & macro dynamics.
> 
> The debate on the best amp that can get the most out of the HD800 is always ongoing & the prices go several times higher than the actual costs of the headphone.


 

 Yup. You won't hear the HD800 shine until you put power through it. Power is the key. Violectric amps have always been a top contender. Projectx86 is a very experienced fellow (countless reviews) and picks the V281. I have one on the way and will report here.
  
 Also look at the SPL Phonitor range (2/X/E/Mini). Great amps and can be very reasonably priced.


----------



## Ani1000

Problem is my budget is 500-600 max for a DAC/amp
I was thinking Mojo or Geek out V2


----------



## fjrabon

yoga said:


> Yup. You won't hear the HD800 shine until you put power through it. Power is the key. Violectric amps have always been a top contender. Projectx86 is a very experienced fellow (countless reviews) and picks the V281. I have one on the way and will report here.
> 
> Also look at the SPL Phonitor range (2/X/E/Mini). Great amps and can be very reasonably priced.




It's not power. The only thing power does is make a headphone louder. There are better amps for the HD800 than the Mojo, for sure. But it's not because the Mojo lacks power.


----------



## Dexon

fjrabon said:


> The only thing power does is make a headphone louder.


 
  
 Does it really? From my experience even cheap and efficient speakers / phones gain in precision & dynamics with power in reserves.


----------



## JaZZ

dexon said:


> fjrabon said:
> 
> 
> > The only thing power does is make a headphone louder.
> ...


 
  
 Rob Watts and Romaz have their DAVE drive their speakers directly and swear by the unmatched precision and transparency they get from this configuration.
  
 Personally, from my experience and with my sonic ideals I don't buy the power argument.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

yoga said:


> Yup. You won't hear the HD800 shine until you put power through it. Power is the key. Violectric amps have always been a top contender. Projectx86 is a very experienced fellow (countless reviews) and picks the V281. I have one on the way and will report here.
> 
> Also look at the SPL Phonitor range (2/X/E/Mini). Great amps and can be very reasonably priced.



I would suspect that the Sennheiser HDVD800 amp section (preceded by a different DAC than the one in the HDVD800), or the amp-only HDVA600, would be great, as the amp is highly regarded for use with the HD800.

At least that is my thought. I plan to try the amp of my HDVD800 driven by my new Chord Hugo DAC to see. Problem is that I like the DAC of the HDVD800 just fine, have compared it carefully to at least one top-drawer DAC, the MHDT Stockholm, and was not able to perceive a difference listening wth the HD800.


----------



## Dexon

jazz said:


> Rob Watts and Romaz have their DAVE drive their speakers directly and swear by the unmatched precision and transparency they get from this configuration.


 
  
 I don't get it. They drive their speakers (as a loudspeakers) with a tiny dac?


----------



## JaZZ

dexon said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > Rob Watts and Romaz have their DAVE drive their speakers directly and swear by the unmatched precision and transparency they get from this configuration.
> ...


 
  
 ...and it sounds wonderful – better than with any high-power amp (according to them). It fully coincides with my own experiments using low-impedance line outputs for driving headphones in the past. Every amplification stage you can renounce makes the sound more pure and transparent. Amps are overrated – the main benefit from them is forgivingness and euphony.


----------



## Ani1000

So... What's the best solution for around 500$ for HD800? 
I'd rather use an expensive phone with an inexpensive rig than vice versa.
I don't expect to get that last few % you get with uber rigs, but hoping to sacrifice as little as possible.


----------



## JaZZ

ani1000 said:


> So... What's the best solution for around 500$ for HD800?
> I'd rather use an expensive phone with an inexpensive rig than vice versa.


 
  
 Chord Mojo. Probably.


----------



## Yoga

dexon said:


> Does it really? From my experience even cheap and efficient speakers / phones gain in precision & dynamics with power in reserves.


 
  
 My experience also.
  


fjrabon said:


> It's not power. The only thing power does is make a headphone louder. There are better amps for the HD800 than the Mojo, for sure. But it's not because the Mojo lacks power.


 
  
 Without enough power you'll never have an authoritative and dynamic sound from the HD800. I'm not purely talking about synergy.

 I find myself more and more tempted by the Chord DAVE. Could use it as a pre-amp in my studio also. Hmmm.


----------



## fjrabon

dexon said:


> Does it really? From my experience even cheap and efficient speakers / phones gain in precision & dynamics with power in reserves.




What you're likely experiencing is that the amp you were using just worked better when not running at max power. This is not the same for all amps though. Class A amps (the Mojo is class A, for example, actually run best at near full power. 

But power itself sitting in reserve doesn't do anything. A two watt amp running at 50 mW just flat out isn't using that last 1950 mW. And in many amp topologies it's actually worse because it's having to be destroyed in volume attenuation. 

The HD800 needs a great amp with a black background, linear response, no high order harmonic distortion and various other things (beefy power supply, well loaded current, etc) but what it doesn't need a ton of is pure power.


----------



## fjrabon

yoga said:


> My experience also.
> 
> 
> Without enough power you'll never have an authoritative and dynamic sound from the HD800. I'm not purely talking about synergy.




That mostly depends on how loudly you listen. But again, power doesn't make an amp more dynamic and authoritative. A well regulated power supply and great internals that quickly deliver the current needed by the headphone do. But if you feed a headphone more power, more volume is the result. You can't use extra power without getting extra volume. There's a literal equation that takes the power the headphone is being fed and outputs a volume level based on the headphone's efficiency. If a HD800 ever receives two watts, ear splitting volume is the result. It doesn't temporarily use more power in the transients or whatever, that's not how it works. 

I believe that the idea that the HD800 needs gobs of power comes from the fact that most high quality amps are more often than not also high power amps. So people heard the HD800 with a high quality amp, saw that it's spec sheet said 4 watts or whatever and assumed it was the power providing that quality, when really it was the quality of the power supply and that there was a great plate load of current.

You say you're tempted by the Chord Dave. Do you know the Dave's maximum power output at 300 ohms? 154mW. That's tiny. But it's more than enough for the HD800 and it sounds brilliant with the HD800 unless you listen at dangerous volume levels.

To put this one last way, a headphone doesn't know how much power an amplifier is capable of delivering. If an amplifier is capable of delivering 10 watts of power the headphone doesn't know that. The headphone knows the amount of power it's being fed. And the only thing amount of power going to the headphone does is increase volume. If you feed an HD800 500mW it will produce 125dB. That's just an electirical fact of its efficiency. Obviously 125dB is literal "it will rip your eardrum" level loud, so you'd never feed 500mW to the HD800. The HD800 doesn't know that your Jotenheim is capable of delivering 500mW at 300 ohms, because it never receives that power. The extra power of the Jotenheim can't "add more authority" because IT IS NEVER BEING USED. To say the extra power available makes the HD800 "more authoritative" is implying that the HD800 is sentient and can "peer back" into the amplifier and know the power it is capable of sending, without that level of power ever being sent.


----------



## JaZZ

fjrabon said:


> You say you're tempted by the Chord Dave. Do you know the Dave's maximum power output at 300 ohms? 154mW. That's tiny. *But it's more than enough for the HD800 and it sounds brilliant with the HD800 unless you listen at dangerous volume levels.*


 
  
 I agree. Add to this Hugo and Mojo. The Hugo paired with the HD 800 was my dream combo until the arrival of DAVE. But I can reproduce others' wish for a «beefier» sound from the HD 800 generally, so a source/amp with a corresponding characteristic will sound more pleasing. I'm glad to be independent of such synergy effect (thanks to equalizing), so I'm free to use electronics components providing highest accuracy – which also means a signal path as direct a possible.


----------



## DavidA

jazz said:


> I agree. Add to this Hugo and Mojo. The Hugo paired with the HD 800 was my dream combo until the arrival of DAVE. But I can reproduce others' wish for a «beefier» sound from the HD 800 generally, so a source/amp with a corresponding characteristic will sound more pleasing. I'm glad to be independent of such synergy effect (thanks to equalizing), so I'm free to use electronics components providing highest accuracy – which also means a signal path as direct a possible.


 
 Agree that the Hugo/HD-800 is a great pairing, would be end game for me but i like variety also so a few more headphones and amps to go.


----------



## fjrabon

I'll mention one last caveat, which is two things can quickly escalate the amount of power needed: EQ and listening loudly. From attending a lot of meets, one thing I'm always astonished by is how loudly a lot of people listen. I'd say at least 25% of people will be listening over 90dB with 100dB peaks. Every 3dB you increase your volume doubles the required power. People who listen at non hearing damaging levels could probably get away with as little as 30mW with the HD800, and if the amp was otherwise high quality and delivered its current on time instantaneously it would sound perfectly fine with just 30mW. However, people who regularly listen at 100dB might very well need 250mW or more. 

EQ, as we all hopefully know is best administered by either only pulling frequencies or "pre-cutting" the signal to avoid line level clipping. As this "pre-cutting" cuts the line level signal, it also increases the demands on the amplifier to get that signal back up to the preferred listening level. So, if you want to add 6dB of bass, you should pre-cut 6dB of line level before the EQ, so you don't clip. This means to get back to the regular volume level, your amp needs 4X as much power to recover the 6dB of lower line level. 

When these two work together: a listener EQs AND they listen dangerously loudly, power requirements on the HD800 can escalate quickly. But even then, anything over 500mW is not needed. 

And again, none of this is to say the HD800 isn't a very demanding headphone for amps. It's to rather say that the demands lie on other aspects of the amplifier rather than raw power delivering capability.


----------



## Yoga

Fair enough, it just so happens in my experience the amps with higher power sounded better (both HD800 and Abyss). 'Better' being tighter control and definition (yes, at lower volumes). Consider that whatever you wish :¬)
  
 90dB? That's insane. I listen in the range of 50-70dB. Anything over 75dB is highly uncomfortable for my ears. I tend to produce and mix at around 62dB.
  
 Regarding the DAVE, I'll be taking the V281 along, it will be interesting to compare with and without it in the chain.


----------



## Thenewguy007

fjrabon said:


> The HD800 needs a great amp with a black background, linear response, no high order harmonic distortion and various other things (beefy power supply, well loaded current, etc) but what it doesn't need a ton of is pure power.




The few people who ran the HD800 out of the speaker taps of $8,000+ power amps said it was the best they ever heard the HD800 sound, over any of the TOTL headphone amps.
So power does matter. My experience mirrors that as well.


----------



## JaZZ

thenewguy007 said:


> The few people who ran the HD800 out of the speaker taps of $8,000+ power amps said it was the best they ever heard the HD800 sound, over any of the TOTL headphone amps.
> So power does matter. My experience mirrors that as well.


 
  
 Yeah, and speakers sound best driven by headphone amps (see here). The world is becoming crazy, no certainties remaining.


----------



## Yoga

thenewguy007 said:


> The few people who ran the HD800 out of the speaker taps of $8,000+ power amps said it was the best they ever heard the HD800 sound, over any of the TOTL headphone amps.
> So power does matter. My experience mirrors that as well.


 

 Same with the HE-6 and Abyss. No headphone amp I've tried can equal the 600i.

 When my balanced (silver) cable arrives for the HD800 I'll try them through the 600i too. Can't wait for that :¬)


----------



## RCBinTN

FWIW, the best I ever heard the HD800 sound was when driven by the Yggy and WA5.  Super smooth and detailed SQ, no longer begging for power and no annoying treble peak.  No hint of sibilance.


----------



## fjrabon

thenewguy007 said:


> The few people who ran the HD800 out of the speaker taps of $8,000+ power amps said it was the best they ever heard the HD800 sound, over any of the TOTL headphone amps.
> So power does matter. My experience mirrors that as well.




That's because they're good amps with incredible power supplies not because they have 100 watts or whatever they have. If you send the HD800 a full speaker amp load of power they will literally break.


----------



## Yoga

Discrete power per channel goodness in the 600i...
  


 Beast!


----------



## bigfatpaulie

thenewguy007 said:


> The few people who ran the HD800 out of the speaker taps of $8,000+ power amps said it was the best they ever heard the HD800 sound, over any of the TOTL headphone amps.
> So power does matter. My experience mirrors that as well.


 
  
 I've lived with the HD800 driven by both a Pass Labs INT-30A and a Moon 600i.  Neither was the best possible option.


----------



## deuter

I play it via the Zana Deux, awesome drive an synergy.
Previously tried via the bakoon hda amp and the leben cs300


----------



## whirlwind

I have used mine for about two years now, using nothing but a 2359glenn OTL.....synergy is off the hook, and tube rolling options to match.  I have never even thought about another amp for the HD800 since I have gotten it.
  
 I think I would feel like a dog chasing his tail, looking for another amp....just enjoying the hell out of my music


----------



## johnjen

Just a comment in passing about the amount of available power (vs quality of those watts) to drive 800's (3-650Ω) loads.
  
 I own a Schiit Rok amp, it has 4 watts/ch of class A running in a cyclotron configuration, which means a very simple inherently balanced output stage.
 I can NEVER run my 800's in anything but class A operation.
  
 This coupled with an extremely low output Ω (0.03Ω) means the diaphragm is extremely tightly controlled, and while it is SS, the euphonic nature of toobz can be applied in other ways.
  
 And I must add The Rok scales really well.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 JJ


----------



## lukeap69

johnjen said:


> *And I must add The Rok scales really well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 JJ
  
 Can you expand a bit?


----------



## johnjen

I like to tweak, a lot.
 So I do…  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Fuses, power cables, connectors (that plug into The Rok) ac power distribution, reducing voltages on the ground plane, and recently metallurgy has taken front and center in my experiments, again.
 And there are other tweaks as well, but that's part of the adventure of DIY, to find out for yourself what does and doesn't work to help scale the entire system.
  
 JJ


----------



## thecrow

whirlwind said:


> I have used mine for about two years now, using nothing but a 2359glenn OTL.....*synergy is off the hook*, and tube rolling options to match.  I have never even thought about another amp for the HD800 since I have gotten it.
> 
> *I think I woul**d feel like a dog chasing his tail, looking for another amp*....just enjoying the hell out of my music


I have a woo wa2 and feel exactly the same way. 

Ive spent more than i ever intended with tube rolling amd with my dac (hex) and even some norne cables and some chord company interconnects that i stumbled on. Every step (that ive kept as opposed to resold - eg tubes) has been a postive tweak. 

Im not denying there would be a better, probably more expensive and perhaps even some a little cheaper, option but after building my system over the last 18 months around this one headphone it would be too much work and stuffing around and cost to take things to another level. 

There is a sense of true contentment. 

......for now (gulp)

Edit: maybe my synergy is not "off the hook" but it is bloody good


----------



## vc1187

whirlwind said:


> I have used mine for about two years now, using nothing but a 2359glenn OTL.....synergy is off the hook, and tube rolling options to match.  I have never even thought about another amp for the HD800 since I have gotten it.
> 
> I think I would feel like a dog chasing his tail, looking for another amp....just enjoying the hell out of my music


 

 Most envious of the two beautiful 6AS7Gs you got there


----------



## fjrabon

thecrow said:


> I have a woo wa2 and feel exactly the same way.
> 
> Ive spent more than i ever intended with tube rolling amd with my dac (hex) and even some norne cables and some chord company interconnects that i stumbled on. Every step (that ive kept as opposed to resold - eg tubes) has been a postive tweak.
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, that's how I feel about the current iteration of my TorpedoIII and Modi Multibit/iDAC6 feeding it.  I'm just so content with my system right now.  It took a bit of tinkering, a few upgrades to the TIII, a decent amount of tube rolling, a lot of tinkering with Sonarworks and CanOpener with ideal settings, but it's just so satisfying to crank this system up now.  There are some little things, but they are basically issues that go beyond amp/interconnect, etc and are into the land of technology only sort of being there right now.  I'll probably upgrade to Yggy or GuMBy next year DAC wise, but this system sounds so good right now.  

 I have a subpac coming, and it might just be a fun gimmick here and there, or it might really up things, I have no real expectations for it.


----------



## Yoga

V281 just turned up. Even using SE this thing is _incredible_ with the HD800! 
  


 Effortless sound! Soundstage is wide, bass is ridiculously tight, deep and fast (I'm using SWR3 of course). Edges are clear without any 'crunch' to them; definition and resolution is off the charts. All while being coherent and organic!

 I can see why so many favour this amp (and its younger brothers). 
  

  
 Can't wait for the balanced cable to arrive :¬)


----------



## JaZZ

yoga said:


> V281 just turned up. Even using SE this thing is _incredible_ with the HD800!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm a bit disappointed that you're not consistently pursuing your sonic ideals. I mean, the V281 has downwright laughable power reserves compared to a decent power amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 After all you have provided a good keyword, in that you're calling the sound from the Violectric «incredible». I think that shows the difference between our sonic ideals quite well. The humble headphone output of my DAVE produces a sound that I would call «credible».


----------



## Yoga

Tools for the job dear fellow. Abyss + 600i is match made in heaven.

 I'll be auditioning a DAVE next week with the V281—time permitting—to compare. Bear in mind my first goal is studio; listening as an audiophile /phool is secondary. You get a lot more bang-for-your-buck in the pro audio world; it's not aimed at consumers.

 For the record, your HD800 will *not* be credible through the DAVE, or through anything. They are far from flat. Regardless, once you drive anything directly via the DAVE one can claim musical enlightenment. Enjoy :¬)


----------



## Zoom25




----------



## JaZZ

yoga said:


> Tools for the job dear fellow. Abyss + 600i is match made in heaven.
> 
> I'll be auditioning a DAVE next week with the V281—time permitting—to compare. Bear in mind my first goal is studio; listening as an audiophile /phool is secondary. You get a lot more bang-for-your-buck in the pro audio world; it's not aimed at consumers.
> 
> For the record, *your HD800 will *not* be credible through the DAVE, or through anything. They are far from flat.* Regardless, once you drive anything directly via the DAVE one can claim musical enlightenment. Enjoy :¬)


 
  
 You forget that I equalize (so I can largely ignore synergetic effects).


----------



## Yoga

jazz said:


> You forget that I equalize (so I can largely ignore synergetic effects).


 

 Have you heard your DAVE via the V281?


----------



## JaZZ

No – the amps at my disposal are listed in my profile. But I can tell you that for my sonic ideal each of the amps compromizes the sound in every single criterion compared to the direct connection, despite higher power reserves.


----------



## Yoga

jazz said:


> No – the amps at my disposal are listed in my profile. But I can tell you that for my sonic ideal each of the amps compromizes the sound in every single criterion compared to the direct connection, despite higher power reserves.


 

 Indeed, direct will always be cleaner. I'll report back after comparing them both.

 As we're both EQ'ers, care to share your HD800 EQ settings? Would be a good way to compare our ears :¬)


----------



## ubs28

I tested it with the Taurus MKII which is able to deliver 2 Watts into 300 ohms. No technical improvements were observed, so the Dave doesn't underpower it. 

Thus amplifiers are basically colour boxes. And the challenge is then finding the right colour for your ears and your headphones. It's not about the amount of Watts but the synergy with a particular headphone that makes or breaks an amplifier.

For the best sound quality possible, no amplifier is the way to go.


----------



## JaZZ

There are two variants:
  
          
 Equalizer of FiiO X5 II                                                     xnor equalizer for foobar2000
  
  
 The FiiO X5 II is my main digital source.
  
 Unfortunately the curves aren't exactly compatible with others' HD 800, because my pair is modified – and currently equipped with a Black Dragon cable.


----------



## Yoga

Ah yes your mods and whatnot. Cheers for sharing.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Just did my own version of the SDR mod.  That 6khz peak must have really been obscuring things, because somehow there is even MORE resolution.  It's almost like a different headphone now.  Incredible upgrade that cost me less than 5 buicks.  And dat BASS.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> Just did my own version of the SDR mod.  That 6khz peak must have really been obscuring things, because somehow there is even MORE resolution.  It's almost like a different headphone now.  Incredible upgrade that cost me less than 5 buicks.  And dat BASS.




Yeah, for me unEQd/unmodded the 6kHz glare sort of overwhelms the ear for me and I lose some detail in surrounding regions. Not because it isn't there, but because my ear has trouble with it if 6kHz is blaring. Yes, the SDR mod is a revelation if you aren't going to EQ.


----------



## Yoga

coltmrfire said:


> Just did my own version of the SDR mod.  That 6khz peak must have really been obscuring things, because somehow there is even MORE resolution.  It's almost like a different headphone now.  Incredible upgrade that cost me less than 5 buicks.  And dat BASS.


 

 Nice stuff!


----------



## Ani1000

Is it possible to use a T amp, or any cheap digital amp, with the HD800?


----------



## jibzilla

ubs28 said:


> I tested it with the Taurus MKII which is able to deliver 2 Watts into 300 ohms. No technical improvements were observed, so the Dave doesn't underpower it.
> 
> Thus amplifiers are basically colour boxes. And the challenge is then finding the right colour for your ears and your headphones. It's not about the amount of Watts but the synergy with a particular headphone that makes or breaks an amplifier.
> 
> For the best sound quality possible, no amplifier is the way to go.


 
  
 I don't think they are just colour boxes. At least I have heard better detail, layering, soundstage etc. using the same source. For the best quality sound possible.. please
  
 My 33 techno records that get spun at 45 should sound way better than my classic rock and jazz 33 records that get spun at 33, they do not
 Active speakers should sound better than Passive speakers, 9 times out 10 I will take passive even with just a cheapo amp and source
 There is more dynamic range in my flac than in my classic rock and jazz records, guess which one sounds way more dynamic
  
 When I read "For the best sound quality possible" I just laugh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jibzilla said:


> I don't think they are just colour boxes*. At least I have heard better detail,* layering, soundstage etc. using the same source. For the best quality sound possible.. please
> 
> My 33 techno records that get spun at 45 should sound way better than my classic rock and jazz 33 records that get spun at 33, they do not
> Active speakers should sound better than Passive speakers, 9 times out 10 I will take passive even with just a cheapo amp and source
> ...


 
  
 So your amps can ADD detail that the source doesn't reveal? 
  
 I'm sorry, but @ubs28 is bang on.


----------



## DavidA

Got to listen with these a few days ago:
  

  

  

  
 The Elise is quite impressive with the HD-800


----------



## whirlwind

thecrow said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > I have used mine for about two years now, using nothing but a 2359glenn OTL.....*synergy is off the hook*, and tube rolling options to match.  I have never even thought about another amp for the HD800 since I have gotten it.
> ...


 
  
 Looks like we kind of took the same approach, I also have a Norne Draug 2 cable and everything that I have done has been to cater to the HD800.
  
 I totally agree with you about spending much more than you anticipate on tubes, but the ability to change the tone is so very nice and I really love that aspect of things......feeling like a warm sound, throw in some Mullards....feeling more dynamic throw in some 5998's ect....ect...
  
 Can't wait to try my gear with the ZMF Atticus some time in the future also....I like seeing some more 300ohm dynamics coming to the scene


----------



## thecrow

whirlwind said:


> Looks like we kind of took the same approach, I also have a Norne Draug 2 cable and everything that I have done has been to cater to the HD800.
> 
> I totally agree with you about spending much more than you anticipate on tubes, but the ability to change the tone is so very nice and I really love that aspect of things......feeling like a warm sound, throw in some Mullards....feeling more dynamic throw in some 5998's ect....ect...
> 
> Can't wait to try my gear with the ZMF Atticus some time in the future also....I like seeing some more 300ohm dynamics coming to the scene


I was thinking about the atticus too. However ive found everytime ive tried a new headphone i end up trying to eq it to what my hd800 sounds like. So i think why bother with other headphones when it comes to my serious listening at home

The norne cables i have are the arcane and silvergarde s. 
I sent the draug 2 back. I love the extra detail and punch and vibrancy the arcane gives me


----------



## whirlwind

thecrow said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like we kind of took the same approach, I also have a Norne Draug 2 cable and everything that I have done has been to cater to the HD800.
> ...


 
 Sounds like the HD800 is the only can you need  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I love the ZMF Omni/Ori......so the Atticus is definitely in my future.


----------



## Ani1000

What other headphones did you try? 


thecrow said:


> I was thinking about the atticus too. However ive found everytime ive tried a new headphone i end up trying to eq it to what my hd800 sounds like. So i think why bother with other headphones when it comes to my serious listening at home
> 
> The norne cables i have are the arcane and silvergarde s.
> I sent the draug 2 back. I love the extra detail and punch and vibrancy the arcane gives me


----------



## Rozenberg

davida said:


> Got to listen with these a few days ago:
> 
> 
> The Elise is quite impressive with the HD-800


 
 Nice stuffs you've tried there.
  
 I'm actually pretty interested in the Elise too since I've heard just good things about it but I have no need for another amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Might get cheaper option like the Laconic Night Blues mini for fun but not anytime soon.
  


thecrow said:


> I was thinking about the atticus too. However ive found everytime ive tried a new headphone i end up trying to eq it to what my hd800 sounds like. So i think why bother with other headphones when it comes to my serious listening at home


 
 Rejoice, that HD800 is the only one for you. 
 Having other pairs of headphones if you could afford it feels nice though. There are lots of things that interest me out there too but I don't see them replacing my HD800 anytime soon either.


----------



## thecrow

whirlwind said:


> Sounds like the HD800 is the only can you need
> 
> I love the ZMF Omni/Ori......so the Atticus is definitely in my future.


What amp do you use for tge omni?

Did you find it went through a long term of burn in?

I heard a new omni recently (about 30 mins) and really liked it with EDM but found it lacking in most other stuff?


----------



## thecrow

ani1000 said:


> What other headphones did you try?


The focal spirit pro and the x2 and have. 

The fostex t500rp (or whatever that one is called - i usually get those numbers and letters wrong)

And whenever i try gear at my local store its always in comparison to the hd800 at my place. 

I was impressed with the lcd3 particularly out of a range of headphones i tried including the hifiman range, beyers and ether flows. 

I found the lcd3 just did what it does so right
But the lcd 3's i found heavy as a new comer. Luckily im pretty content with my setup as is and am nowhere near being able to splurge out on another $2k on headphones. 

I probably should give the t1's (gen 1) a serious try with my set up to see if the hd800 and t1 are both worth having or if they are a little too alike


----------



## whirlwind

thecrow said:


> whirlwind said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like the HD800 is the only can you need
> ...


 
  
 Used the same amp , but with 6336A power tubes and C3g drivers


----------



## jibzilla

bigfatpaulie said:


> So your amps can ADD detail that the source doesn't reveal?
> 
> I'm sorry, but @ubs28 is bang on.


 
  
 With a tube amp oh yeah. If you have not tried a tube amp that added details then to each his own.


----------



## thecrow

whirlwind said:


> Used the same amp , but with 6336A power tubes and C3g drivers


The otl?

Has the omni high impedance?

What did those power tubes and drivers bring?

I was curious about the upcming zmf headphones, i think the eikon from memory actually, but wondering where my head would be at and if it would in fact get much use alongside my hd800. It would have to be quite special with strong with still decent level of detail but overall offering a different sound than the hd800....if that makes sense


----------



## whirlwind

I don't want to derail this thread, so feel free to pm me.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yes the OTL....the 6336A powers need 5 amps each, so make sure your amp can handle that before using them or it could be bad news.
  
 The Omni/Ori  is a planar can and is 50 ohm....the newer ZMF cans are dynamic cans and are 300 ohm.
  
 The 6336 power terms bring more current which is nice for the planars.
  
 The HD800 is still my go to headphone...but the omni/Ori is a wonderful compliment...completely different, which I like....but may not suit you if you usually EQ other phones to get more of the HD800 tone.


----------



## thecrow

whirlwind said:


> I don't want to derail this thread, so feel free to pm me.
> 
> Yes the OTL....the 6336A powers need 5 amps each, so make sure your amp can handle that before using them or it could be bad news.
> 
> ...


Thats why ill be keeping am eye out for further comments on the up coming new zmf high imp headphones - looking for something magical/special that is "a wonderful compliment...completely different,"

And i know im preaching to the converted but the hd800 is such a great value headphone. Of course YMMV


----------



## whirlwind

Yeah, not only is the HD800 top notch, it can now be had for such a wonderful price....the bang for the buck is very hard to beat IMHO


----------



## Ani1000

Is there any other phone at around this price that is as transparent?


----------



## fjrabon

ani1000 said:


> Is there any other phone at around this price that is as transparent?



No. There's probably only 10 or so headphones that can match or beat the HD800 in transparency. They're all multiple times the HD800's price. The HD800 isn't perfect but very little matches it in transparency and those things that do aren't even close to its price. To get this level of transparency you're talking SR009, Orpheus, mr speakers electrostatic, ether flow, abyss, HE1000, K1000, Utopia.

The closest headphone in transparency that is cheaper is probably the HE560. But it's only slightly cheaper. The HD800 is more transparent, but the HE560 is close. But on soundstage and impact the HD800 blows it away.


----------



## Ani1000

The HD800 is the bargain of the high end world ^_^


----------



## fjrabon

Yeah, seems there are two basic varieties of head-fiers: flavor people and holy grailers 

Flavor people like being able to switch things up and get contrasting signatures. Or sometimes even slight variations on the same signature. Witness the people who own every THX00 variant plus the EMU counterparts. Flavor people want each headphone to sound great on its own way, but appreciate the variation as much as the quality. They spend their time trying out each headphone with each piece of music and chain gear to find the best matches. 

Holy Grailers want their one headphone to sound as good as possible and use it all the time. They spend their time refining every part of the chain to best achieve that one sound. If they own other headphones the other headphones are for different use cases (portable, closed, etc), not different sounds, and they often will even try to make their other headphone sound as close to their primary headphone as possible. 

I'm probably more of a Holy Grailer myself. I own a lot of other headphones at this point, but they're all either for sentimental reasons (Grade SR80e), use cases (RE00, emu walnut, THX00) or because I've just been too lazy to bother selling or giving them away. I end up selling most of my headphones to friends for like 80% off because I'm too lazy to post things here. 

But basically since I've been able to optimize the HD800, unless I need closed bc of the fiancée I use the HD800 100% of the time. I'm never sitting around and think "I want the signature of the THX00." I use the THX00 when I don't want it to sound like my laptop speakers are playing to my fiancée. This has also prevented me from buying anything else that isn't a clear upgrade to the HD800. So the only things I even consider that are open "at home" headphones are things like the SR009, Abyss and Utopia. And none of those have been a 100% clear enough upgrade over the HD800 to digest their price tags.


----------



## Ani1000

I'm a holy grailer my self. 
Same with watches, and women (;
I gotta give credit to sennheiser for creating such a hard core headphone, and very a head of it's time. 
I'm not a fan of any brand, but i tried a lot of speakers and headphones over the years, and it wasn't just better than anything i tried, but I I didn't even know such sound quality even exists.


----------



## Evshrug

ani1000 said:


> I'm a holy grailer my self.
> Same with watches, and women (;



Seeing as how I bought an HD800 this year and just got married a month ago, my wife appreciated this compliment


----------



## fjrabon

evshrug said:


> Seeing as how I bought an HD800 this year and just got married a month ago, my wife appreciated this compliment


 

 for a long time I thought I wasn't a holy-grailer, I tried a lot of stuff out, but I realized once i found what I was really after that I didn't want anything else.  But with headphones, it's easier for the old ones to just sit around the house in a box if you've found the one.


----------



## akg fanboy

ani1000 said:


> I'm a holy grailer my self.
> Same with watches, and women (;
> I gotta give credit to sennheiser for creating such a hard core headphone, and very a head of it's time.
> I'm not a fan of any brand, but i tried a lot of speakers and headphones over the years, and it wasn't just better than anything i tried, but I I didn't even know such sound quality even exists.


 
 I'm not a holy grailer.... neither with collectibles nor women LOL


----------



## akg fanboy

fjrabon said:


> for a long time I thought I wasn't a holy-grailer, I tried a lot of stuff out, but I realized once i found what I was really after that I didn't want anything else.  But with headphones, it's easier for the old ones to just sit around the house in a box if you've found the one.


 
 I think of the hd800 as the "end all" but im still open to the k1000 successor and esp950 as being worthy equivalents... I don't like upgrading cables, amps, dacs. But I also don't collect every variety of several headphones (like k701, k702, annies, quincy, k712, k7xx, k7xx red). I prefer different sound signatures when purchasing headphones


----------



## fjrabon

akg fanboy said:


> I think of the hd800 as the "end all" but im still open to the k1000 successor and esp950 as being worthy equivalents... I don't like upgrading cables, amps, dacs. But I also don't collect every variety of several headphones (like k701, k702, annies, quincy, k712, k7xx, k7xx red). I prefer different sound signatures when purchasing headphones




I'm open to something beating out the HD800. I've demoed the Utopia. I've tried the SR009 dozens of times. I'd probably buy an abyss if it wasn't so ugly and uncomfortable and didn't require a desktop amp at all times. The HD800 has so far been the best for my tastes and the ways I use it. 

When I say "holy grailer" I don't mean you think your headphone is perfect and you'll never change, but more that you prefer one headphone that sounds as best as it possibly can to having lots of different flavors.


----------



## akg fanboy

fjrabon said:


> I'm open to something beating out the HD800. I've demoed the Utopia. I've tried the SR009 dozens of times. I'd probably buy an abyss if it wasn't so ugly and uncomfortable and didn't require a desktop amp at all times. The HD800 has so far been the best for my tastes and the ways I use it.
> 
> When I say "holy grailer" I don't mean you think your headphone is perfect and you'll never change, but more that you prefer one headphone that sounds as best as it possibly can to having lots of different flavors.


 
 Most of my top used headphones do have a similarish sound profile, I listen to the k601 when I want more mids and a more relaxed treble, I cannot do dark headphones. And the hd800 gets 90% head time, so I guess I am a holy grailer then


----------



## jibzilla

ani1000 said:


> I'm a holy grailer my self.
> Same with watches, and women (;
> I gotta give credit to sennheiser for creating such a hard core headphone, and very a head of it's time.
> I'm not a fan of any brand, but i tried a lot of speakers and headphones over the years, and it wasn't just better than anything i tried, but I I didn't even know such sound quality even exists.


 
  
 The hd800 is/was not a head of its time. The Sony Quaila might have been, but the hd800 is a Sony clone. Helluva clone but a clone.


----------



## RCBinTN

fjrabon said:


> Yeah, seems there are two basic varieties of head-fiers: flavor people and holy grailers
> 
> Flavor people like being able to switch things up and get contrasting signatures. Or sometimes even slight variations on the same signature. Witness the people who own every THX00 variant plus the EMU counterparts. Flavor people want each headphone to sound great on its own way, but appreciate the variation as much as the quality. They spend their time trying out each headphone with each piece of music and chain gear to find the best matches.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is a cool post and idea. I guess I'm a flavor person but consider the (3) cans I own to be the holy grail at this point. Not inclined to spend $4K on a headphone!  I enjoy listening to the same music on the different cans and see how they present it. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. It's fun switching out the cans.  IMO.
  
 Cheers,
 RCBinTN


----------



## Ani1000

How are they a clone 
Do they sound exactly the same? 
I still think they are a head of their time, the design is unique, the drivers also. 
And still a Benchmark for newly released headphones, 8 years after the release. 


jibzilla said:


> The hd800 is/was not a head of its time. The Sony Quaila might have been, but the hd800 is a Sony clone. Helluva clone but a clone.


----------



## fjrabon

rcbintn said:


> This is a cool post and idea. I guess I'm a flavor person but consider the (3) cans I own to be the holy grail at this point. Not inclined to spend $4K on a headphone!  I enjoy listening to the same music on the different cans and see how they present it. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. It's fun switching out the cans.  IMO.
> 
> Cheers,
> RCBinTN


 

 yeah, I don't mean to say that being a flavor person is "lesser" or means you aren't as devoted to quality sound, but rather you chase a few (or many) different sounds.  Holy grailers have one sound they're after.  I'd call my buddy Purk a flavor person.  It's just that his different flavors are a Sony MDR10, HD800, SR009 and original Orpheus.


----------



## RCBinTN

fjrabon said:


> yeah, I don't mean to say that being a flavor person is "lesser" or means you aren't as devoted to quality sound, but rather you chase a few (or many) different sounds.  Holy grailers have one sound they're after.  I'd call my buddy Purk a flavor person.  It's just that his different flavors are a Sony MDR10, HD800, SR009 and original Orpheus.


 
  
 Yeah cool.  I didn't take it wrong, I am devoted to good SQ but prefer keeping the upstream rig as solid as possible, then changing the cans to hear their variations.  It's fun.
 The list of cans that Purk has is impressive. Just not sure I'll be going there with this hobby.


----------



## Thenewguy007

ani1000 said:


> How are they a clone
> Do they sound exactly the same?
> I still think they are a head of their time, the design is unique, the drivers also.
> And still a Benchmark for newly released headphones, 8 years after the release.




The design looks nearly identical besides of a few slight changes.


----------



## fjrabon

jibzilla said:


> The hd800 is/was not a head of its time. The Sony Quaila might have been, but the hd800 is a Sony clone. Helluva clone but a clone.


 

 well, if you consider a clone to be a headphone that keeps basically all the Qualia's strengths (soundstage, transient response and detail) and fixes all the problems (grainy treble, wildly uneven frequency response, being extremely super dependent on JUST the right fit), with vaguely a similar design aesthetic, sure.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I must count myself among the flavor people, though I plan to get Sonarworks for the HD800 and will certainly check in if that makes it a better all-rounder. Short of the Orpheus, I don't think I would give up the variety of my current stable, reference-class though they all are (perhaps not HD600).


----------



## akg fanboy

I'm not a huge fan of the sonarworks plugin for the HD800. The vocals and guitar sound fuller because of the fix in the mids, but the treble is cut to the point where it really degrades and cuts the soundstage


----------



## lenroot77

akg fanboy said:


> I'm not a huge fan of the sonarworks plugin for the HD800. The vocals and guitar sound fuller because of the fix in the mids, but the treble is cut to the point where it really degrades and cuts the soundstage



Did you try upping the treble or taking the bass down. Maybe that would open the soundstage up a bit for you?


----------



## akg fanboy

lenroot77 said:


> Did you try upping the treble or taking the bass down. Maybe that would open the soundstage up a bit for you?


 
 That's why I just EQ them in the mids and cut it in the preamp to negate the side effects. The bass didn't bother me with sonarworks, just the sudden feeling of everything being a lot closer


----------



## akg fanboy

The best way I would describe the sonarworks plugin is like making the hd800 from a world class open back headphone into a world class closed back headphone. It doesn't sound bad and the extra sub bass becomes more easily audible, but especially in metal it becomes obvious that all the instruments are much closer in. If I was being blind tested, I would say it sounds absolutely amazing for a closed back, but my expectations are much higher for open backs, I would feel like it was money wasted if I bought my hd800 just to get a completely flat sound at the cost of the strengths of the hd800, which defeats the purpose imo. The soundstage is still fairly large, not saying it sounds like a closed back, but it becomes smaller than the T1


----------



## fjrabon

akg fanboy said:


> I'm not a huge fan of the sonarworks plugin for the HD800. The vocals and guitar sound fuller because of the fix in the mids, but the treble is cut to the point where it really degrades and cuts the soundstage


 

 just turn down the wetness until it sounds right to you.
  
 edit_ also, sonarworks does basically nothing to the mids at all?  The only things sonarworks does with the HD800 is add sub bass and cut the 6kHz peak.  The mids are virtually flat on the HD800, and sonarworks doesn't do anything to them, really.  Not sure what you mean by "fix in the mids"?


----------



## fjrabon

to me, frequency response impacts soundstage very little.  If anything, bright headphones seem to sound like a smaller soundstage, all else being equal, because when you are hearing a ton of ultra high frequencies, that simulates closeness to the source signal IRL.  The soundstage doesn't change at all for me with or eithout sonarworks.  YMMV, etc.


----------



## Yoga

akg fanboy said:


> The best way I would describe the sonarworks plugin is like making the hd800 from a world class open back headphone into a world class closed back headphone. It doesn't sound bad and the extra sub bass becomes more easily audible, but especially in metal it becomes obvious that all the instruments are much closer in. If I was being blind tested, I would say it sounds absolutely amazing for a closed back, but my expectations are much higher for open backs, I would feel like it was money wasted if I bought my hd800 just to get a completely flat sound at the cost of the strengths of the hd800, which defeats the purpose imo. The soundstage is still fairly large, not saying it sounds like a closed back, but it becomes smaller than the T1


 

 If you're used to the HD800 sound, the jump will sound off to you without question; you're not used to it. Give it a chance, get used to the sound for a bit then go back to stock HD800. That's when you think ' Holy Treble Batman'.

 As fj said, you can always dial the wet/dry dial to your liking.


----------



## akg fanboy

fjrabon said:


> just turn down the wetness until it sounds right to you.
> 
> edit_ also, sonarworks does basically nothing to the mids at all?  The only things sonarworks does with the HD800 is add sub bass and cut the 6kHz peak.  The mids are virtually flat on the HD800, and sonarworks doesn't do anything to them, really.  Not sure what you mean by "fix in the mids"?


 
 Yeah I got mixed up with the hd700, I listened again when I made my second comment. It makes vocals closer and more "mono" sounding and I already know most vocals are recorded mono, it just feels like everything including the vocals expand more without the plugin, then get more compressed in when I turn it on. From the looks of it, it cuts way more than just 6khz from what I'm seeing. 
  
 The soundstage from cymbals still go fairly wide but everything seems more "mono" in a compressed sense with a lot less air. If I never heard the hd800 in its naked form, I would certainly be impressed, but even without EQing anything I still much prefer the HD800 to the sonarworks for the sole reason of soundstage and air. Frequency response that affects soundstage the most to me are definitely the mids, a lot of large soundstage headphones are u shaped or v shaped, I tried increasing the mids on the dt1770 and hd800 for example, and the soundstage gets slightly smaller.


----------



## akg fanboy

yoga said:


> If you're used to the HD800 sound, the jump will sound off to you without question; you're not used to it. Give it a chance, get used to the sound for a bit then go back to stock HD800. That's when you think ' Holy Treble Batman'.
> 
> As fj said, you can always dial the wet/dry dial to your liking.


 
 The hd800 was a treble murder headphone to me, coming directly from the q701 when I first put them on lol. The extra detail from the hd800 treble really wasn't very important to me, the soundstage was what drew me in to keep listening and before I knew it I don't get fatigue anymore. Your method could probably work but then again, I bought the hd800 for the sole purpose of soundstage in mind. completely disregarding flat sound


----------



## fjrabon

akg fanboy said:


> Yeah I got mixed up with the hd700, I listened again when I made my second comment. It makes vocals closer and more "mono" sounding and I already know most vocals are recorded mono, it just feels like everything including the vocals expand more without the plugin, then get more compressed in when I turn it on. From the looks of it, it cuts way more than just 6khz from what I'm seeing.
> 
> The soundstage from cymbals still go fairly wide but everything seems more "mono" in a compressed sense with a lot less air. If I never heard the hd800 in its naked form, I would certainly be impressed, but even without EQing anything I still much prefer the HD800 to the sonarworks for the sole reason of soundstage and air. Frequency response that affects soundstage the most to me are definitely the mids, a lot of large soundstage headphones are u shaped or v shaped, I tried increasing the mids on the dt1770 and hd800 for example, and the soundstage gets slightly smaller.




Ah, hmm. I use GoodHertz mid-side to precisely control how wide my mix is, so you may be right there, not sure. Mid-side is worth checking out, it even allows you to separately EQ the center and extreme sides.


----------



## akg fanboy

fjrabon said:


> Ah, hmm. I use GoodHertz mid-side to precisely control how wide my mix is, so you may be right there, not sure. Mid-side is worth checking out, it even allows you to separately EQ the center and extreme sides.


 
 I tried to check it out and the interface looks really clean but it turns out to be mac only. Most plugins I use were VST files


----------



## fjrabon

akg fanboy said:


> I tried to check it out and the interface looks really clean but it turns out to be mac only. Most plugins I use were VST files




Ah, yeah, they're working on a PC port. Mid-side and CanOpener are game changers for me.


----------



## lenroot77

fjrabon said:


> Ah, yeah, they're working on a PC port. Mid-side and CanOpener are game changers for me.




What happened to canopener on iOS? It's been wiped from the App Store.


----------



## thecrow

Sonarworks was not worth it/needed for me but i do love that they have that trial period that you can use

I needed two trial periods as i wasnt sure and luckily i just used my second email address to get the second period with no problem. 

I always think though that sonarworks might be better in one system over another due to tweaks in the sound that ones dac, amp and other variables may bring

But its a good option to have and be able to trial


----------



## Yoga

thecrow said:


> I always think though that sonarworks might be better in one system over another due to tweaks in the sound that ones dac, amp and other variables may bring


 

 You make a very good point here. The right amp (and cable) will open up the HD800's soundstage by some margin. Using the headphone out of my Prism DAC vs the Phonitor/V281 is a night and day difference. Literally.
  
 Perhaps that foundation keeps the sound open while reducing the treble peaks.


----------



## whirlwind

rcbintn said:


> fjrabon said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, seems there are two basic varieties of head-fiers: flavor people and holy grailers
> ...


 
  
 Same here, I like how some headphones make a certain album sound better than others....a headphone with better sub bass may sound better on one album and a headphone with more air up top may sound better on another...it is fun stuff....same with tubes.
  
 I don't consider myself an audiophile....just a guy who loves music and tubes...don't get me wrong...it has to make my head bob and my feet tap....but I do not dwell over much after that...it can drive you nuts and make you listen to much to the gear and not the music


----------



## DavidA

fjrabon said:


> Yeah, seems there are two basic varieties of head-fiers: flavor people and holy grailers
> 
> Flavor people like being able to switch things up and get contrasting signatures. Or sometimes even slight variations on the same signature. Witness the people who own every THX00 variant plus the EMU counterparts. Flavor people want each headphone to sound great on its own way, but appreciate the variation as much as the quality. They spend their time trying out each headphone with each piece of music and chain gear to find the best matches.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm a Flavor person, no if ands or buts


----------



## fjrabon

davida said:


> I'm a Flavor person, no if ands or buts


 

 ha, yeah, you were one of the primary ones I had in mind when that thought struck me.  
  
 edit: on other thought that just occurred to me, you have sonarworks, right?  What are your thoughts about the "simulate" menu as an easy way to get different flavors with the push of a button?


----------



## DavidA

fjrabon said:


> ha, yeah, you were one of the primary ones I had in mind when that thought struck me.
> 
> edit: on other thought that just occurred to me, you have sonarworks, right?  What are your thoughts about the "simulate" menu as an easy way to get different flavors with the push of a button?


 
 Sorry, I don't use sonarworks, for the logistical reason of using 2 DACs along with 3-4 amps at the same time with a different headphone connected to each amp.


----------



## Ani1000

OK, new budget rig options 
OBJECTIVE2 amp+ geek out v2 as DAC
Or just chord Mojo, no amp
?


----------



## lenroot77

ani1000 said:


> OK, new budget rig options
> OBJECTIVE2 amp+ geek out v2 as DAC
> Or just chord Mojo, no amp
> ?




For a hd800?
If I were you I'd consider a Schiit Vali 2 with a Modi multibit.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

lenroot77 said:


> For a hd800?
> If I were you I'd consider a Schiit Vali 2 with a Modi multibit.


 

 Do we have an article on the HF wiki about HD800 amplification by price bracket? I think it would help many folks.


----------



## fjrabon

ani1000 said:


> OK, new budget rig options
> OBJECTIVE2 amp+ geek out v2 as DAC
> Or just chord Mojo, no amp
> ?




Mojo would be ***way*** better than O2+geek out v2. Modi Multibit plus Vali2 also a great option. O2 with HD800 is a pretty terrible match.


----------



## lenroot77

fjrabon said:


> Mojo would be ***way*** better than O2+geek out v2. Modi Multibit plus Vali2 also a great option. O2 with HD800 is a pretty terrible match.




Could also throw a M9xx in there as well!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

fjrabon said:


> Mojo would be ***way*** better than O2+geek out v2. Modi Multibit plus Vali2 also a great option. O2 with HD800 is a pretty terrible match.


 

 at 2x the cost of Mimby (used, lowest cost I found on ebay vs $249), Mojo is a terrible value for money. Schiit's amp line is compelling and aggressively priced, but its DAC line, and multibit in particular, are no-contest the only DACs worth buying, IMO, for any reason.


----------



## mysticstryk

bosiemoncrieff said:


> at 2x the cost of Mimby (used, lowest cost I found on ebay vs $249), Mojo is a terrible value for money. Schiit's amp line is compelling and aggressively priced, but its DAC line, and multibit in particular, are no-contest the only DACs worth buying, IMO, for any reason.


 
  
 I haven't been able to recommend anything but Schiit in the under $300 market lately.  Especially with products like the Vali 2, Mimby and Fulla 2.  Past the few hundred mark they get some more competition, but still remain competitive, but there are other (sometimes better IMO) options.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

mysticstryk said:


> I haven't been able to recommend anything but Schiit in the under $300 market lately.  Especially with products like the Vali 2, Mimby and Fulla 2.  Past the few hundred mark they get some more competition, but still remain competitive, but there are other (sometimes better IMO) options.


 

 I love the sound of so much of the stuff I hear at meets, but when Woo asks 2k, or 3k, or 6k for their stuff, I'm sorry, but I just can't.


----------



## mysticstryk

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Do we have an article on the HF wiki about HD800 amplification by price bracket? I think it would help many folks.


 
  
 There are a couple really good ones, but not on HF.  (can't link to them here either unfortunately)
  


bosiemoncrieff said:


> I love the sound of so much of the stuff I hear at meets, but when Woo asks 2k, or 3k, or 6k for their stuff, I'm sorry, but I just can't.


 
  
 Better options than Woo at those price brackets anyways.  DNA, Eddie Current, etc.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Modi multibit is the only DAC anyone should buy under $500 IMO just for the fact that Schiit should be supported because most of their gear is way underpriced and made in USA. End game material for $250 still blows my mind.


----------



## fjrabon

bosiemoncrieff said:


> at 2x the cost of Mimby (used, lowest cost I found on ebay vs $249), Mojo is a terrible value for money. Schiit's amp line is compelling and aggressively priced, but its DAC line, and multibit in particular, are no-contest the only DACs worth buying, IMO, for any reason.




Why are you comparing a battery powered portable DAC/amp combo with a desktop DAC only that has to stay plugged in 24/7 on price? Mojo is far from a "terrible value for the money." It costs about the same as Modi Multibit plus Vali2, you need to add an amp to Modi Multibit to even begin comparing it to Mojo's value. And I'd say they're very comparable performance wise, with mimby/Vali being the better budget desktop rig and Mojo being better if you need portable. In some ways Mojo's amp (or ampless, depending on how you look at it) class A advantage is better if you don't need the extra power. 

I love my Modi Multibit and think it would be a great value at even $800. And while the form factor of the Mojo made it not a great fit for me, it's still a great product with a shockingly competitive price. Especially given some of Chord's other pricing decisions.


----------



## ubs28

The multibit DAC's of Schiit are no competition to the Mojo as they have less taps and also are not 32 bit. 
  
 Even Schiit their TOTL DAC (Yggdrasil) has only 18.000 taps and only 21 bits.


----------



## MattTCG

ubs28 said:


> The multibit DAC's of Schiit are no competition to the Mojo as they have less taps and also are not 32 bit.
> 
> Even Schiit their TOTL DAC (Yggdrasil) has only 18.000 taps and only 21 bits.


 
  
 Huh? Specs don't tell the whole story often times. I've owned the mjo and wouldn't even put it in the same class as my Gumby much less the yggy. Each to his own though, enjoy the mjo and be happy that you saved money.


----------



## ubs28

matttcg said:


> Huh? Specs don't tell the whole story often times. I've owned the mjo and wouldn't even put it in the same class as my Gumby much less the yggy. Each to his own though, enjoy the mjo and be happy that you saved money.


 

 Someone could like it more than the Mojo since it's personal taste which is fine ofcourse. But based on technical performance I have to disagree.


----------



## lenroot77

Oh boy here we go with bit talk...lol

Time to make the popcorn...


----------



## MattTCG

lenroot77 said:


> Oh boy here we go with bit talk...lol
> 
> Time to make the popcorn...


 
  
 Nah, I'm out. Enjoy the mjo but it was ultimately disappointing for me as a primary desktop device. Good portable though. But I'd never listen to it when I have some high end Schiit DAC on my desk. Again, each to his own.


----------



## mysticstryk

Psh, 32 bit. My DAC has 128 bits.

I'll take a Gumby over anything Chord makes. Well, except the Dave. Because then I could sell it and buy a house with it and use the leftover funds to just buy a gumby.


----------



## ColtMrFire

ubs28 said:


> The multibit DAC's of Schiit are no competition to the Mojo as they have less taps and also are not 32 bit.
> 
> Even Schiit their TOTL DAC (Yggdrasil) has only 18.000 taps and only 21 bits.


 
  
 I have not heard the Mojo, but from what I understand, anything above 21 bits is beyond the limits of human hearing.  The extra bits are actually just added noise and do not benefit audio.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

32 bits?! Even 24 bits are a pointless waste of time. Bit depth is NOT bit rate (resolution, detail retrieval); it is noise floor, lack of quantization noise. At 32 bits, the signal-to-noise ratio is 192 decibels, meaning that you must listen to your music at 192 decibels above your ambient environment or the ambient noise (refrigerator, traffic, kids, _your dac and amp_) would mask the quantization noise (which is why 16 bit is fine in real life).
  
 What is 192 decibels? Well deafness occurs at 180 db, so even if you listened to your 32-bit recordings in an anechoic chamber, if you heard their full dynamic range, you're not listening to them now. If you're listening in a university library, at a quiet 30 decibels, even a Saturn V at launch can't quite give you 192 true decibels of dynamic range to overcome the noise floor, though its 200-odd decibels would certainly kill you.
  
 32 bits are bullschiit. 24 bits are bullschiit. Buy an Yggy and call it a day. But be safe out there: sound over 85 decibels can lead to hearing loss.


----------



## thefitz

Just make sure you spend a lot of money on USB cables. Heh.


----------



## ColtMrFire

fltws said:


> Solti FTW, VK is too light weight / almost a chamber music approach for me. Solti has the better soloists in my opinion as well. My second choice would be Bohm.
> 
> I believe bosiemoncrieff is our Perfect Wagnerite here at Head-Fi, hopefully he will weigh in as well. This is the one to get if you spring for Solti. I believe it is the best available transfer and comes with Deryk Cook bonus discs. This price is also a steal.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just started Disc 1 of this massive undertaking.  The sound quality is unreal.  Such clarity and depth  Feels like I'm there.  Thanks for the recommend.


----------



## jibzilla

ani1000 said:


> OK, new budget rig options
> OBJECTIVE2 amp+ geek out v2 as DAC
> Or just chord Mojo, no amp
> ?


 
  
 Allot of people do not like this but a hd600/650 and Bottlehead mainline/ECP Torpedo amp. The hd800 is getting cheap enough used anymore that it is getting harder for me to make this recommendation but I have also seen some really gross ear pads and bad paint chips. I would not skimp on source either but the hd800 seems a little more forgiving there. A mainline/torpedo amp is really the beginning with these headphones. Ask anyone who has heard the hd800 with a Stratus, Teton, Ravenswood, L-2, Gsx-mk2, First Watt amp. They are very expensive amps but I really doubt you will hear a "I was so disappointed" story.


----------



## amature101

Hi, is lgv20 able to drive hd800 and hd800S
 Thank you


----------



## akg fanboy

amature101 said:


> Hi, is lgv20 able to drive hd800 and hd800S
> Thank you


 
 purely on power, yes it is capable


----------



## ColtMrFire

Any amp recommendations under $500?  Preferably something less glare-y than Jotunheim that matches well with the 800.


----------



## MattTCG

coltmrfire said:


> Any amp recommendations under $500?  Preferably something less glare-y than Jotunheim that matches well with the 800.


 
  
 BHC with speed ball.
  
 Valhalla 2 with upgraded tubes is still in budget. (even without tube upgrades still good)
  
 Used Cavalli Liquid Carbon is not a bad choice.


----------



## MWSVette

matttcg said:


> BHC with speed ball.
> 
> Valhalla 2 with upgraded tubes is still in budget. (even without tube upgrades still good)
> 
> Used Cavalli Liquid Carbon is not a bad choice.


 
 2nd for the used Cavalli Liquid Carbon...


----------



## lenroot77

If you can stretch your budget I'd go for a Liquid Carbon. With your Mimby I'm sure the hd800 will sound super smooth. I really enjoyed the hd800 with the Carbon and the Dac 19(multibit) very pleasant sounding combo. 

A while back the first run carbons where going for 550-575.


----------



## jibzilla

coltmrfire said:


> Any amp recommendations under $500?  Preferably something less glare-y than Jotunheim that matches well with the 800.


 
  
 If you like the hd800 out of budget amps you will love the hd800 out of a mainline or torpedo amp. I'm usually a driver first sort of fellow but with the hd800 and 007mk1 I'm amp first. I'm this way with the sr-009 as well but it seems more source dependent to me than amp.


----------



## ColtMrFire

matttcg said:


> BHC with speed ball.
> 
> Valhalla 2 with upgraded tubes is still in budget. (even without tube upgrades still good)
> 
> Used Cavalli Liquid Carbon is not a bad choice.


 
  
 I used to own the Val2 (with my old Beyer T90s), and while I thought it was a great amp, it was lacking in slam/dynamics (important to me), and the treble was a bit sandy.  But I have not heard it with the 800 so maybe it would be different?
  
 LC's seem to be going for $600 on HF classifieds.
  
 BHC, hmmm... anyone else got an opinion on this combo?


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> I used to own the Val2 (with my old Beyer T90s), and while I thought it was a great amp, it was lacking in slam/dynamics (important to me), and the treble was a bit sandy.  But I have not heard it with the 800 so maybe it would be different?
> 
> LC's seem to be going for $600 on HF classifieds.
> 
> BHC, hmmm... anyone else got an opinion on this combo?




Valhalla2 will depend on the tubes you put in with HD800. 

A super budget amp I really like with HD800 is the Little Dot 1+ with Voshkod replacement tubes. 
Vali2 with HD800 is also good, but depends on tubes again. 

But honestly I'd just stick with the Jot until you can fit a torpedo or similar into the budget. I preferred the Jot to the LC. The torpedo IV is coming out soon. Tom may have a handful of Torpedo IIIs, but they're about to be discontinued if they're not already. Torpedo III maxed out with output ccs, mundorfs, tube ccs and GE 12ay7 5 stars is about the cheapest way to endgame sound with HD800, and it's about $1600 altogether with tubes, upgrades and assembly. You can sometimes find one of the earlier versions on the for sale forum for $900ish and then do the upgrades yourself. 

BHC gave up a touch too much in bass speed for me, maybe due to its lower damping factor. I don't tend to like the HD800 with anything output impedance higher than 50 ohms.


----------



## ColtMrFire

fjrabon said:


> BHC gave up a touch too much in bass speed for me, maybe due to its lower damping factor. I don't tend to like the HD800 with anything output impedance higher than 50 ohms.


 
  
 Does BHC (with or without speedball) compare to Jot in terms of resolution/resolving ability?  I don't want to downgrade in that area.
  
 Honestly the SDR I made was very good, but seemed to shave the highs off a bit too much for me, so I was just looking for other amp options.  I will probably get the proper version from Sorrodje soon to see what it does because the Jot is so good it would be a shame to sell it.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> Does BHC (with or without speedball) compare to Jot in terms of resolution/resolving ability?  I don't want to downgrade in that area.
> 
> Honestly the SDR I made was very good, but seemed to shave the highs off a bit too much for me, so I was just looking for other amp options.  I will probably get the proper version from Sorrodje soon to see what it does because the Jot is so good it would be a shame to sell it.


 

 mattTCG would be the guy to ask that.  I've heard the BHC, and I've heard the Jot, but never directly immediately back and forth enough to answer a subtle question like that.  Matt owns both, and could directly answer you much better than I could.


----------



## fjrabon

So, I bought a subpac (click here for amazon link).  And I kind of expected it to be a gimmick.  But holy schiit, this things really fills out the bass without getting in the way at all of the midrange and treble.  I don't use the subpac's built in headphone amp because its complete garbage.  
  
 It allowed me to actually roll off a good bit of sonarworks auditory bass boost, because I'm getting a tactile bass boost, that somehow actually makes the bass *sound* louder in addition to feeling it.  I'm really quite impressed with it matching it with the HD800.  Listening to AC/DC Back In Black right now and it just sounds so ALIVE.  It's not jsut hip hop that comes alive either.  Organ based classical music "feels" right now, which before I never enjoyed organ based classical music on anything other than large speakers.  Also Sprach Zarathustra prelude is a religious experience with this pairing, it allows you to make out much more detail in percussion, and the big moments of that piece hit you like they should.  Classic rock kick drums punch you like a live concert.  It brings bring upright bass alive for live jazz.
  
 I want to spend more time before I give a full review, and an official endorsement for whatever thats not worth, but early returns are great so far.
  
 I basically run two DACs simultaneously, an Audioengine D1 that feeds subpac, and then modi multibit that feeds torpedo III that feeds HD800.


----------



## MattTCG

coltmrfire said:


> Does BHC (with or without speedball) compare to Jot in terms of resolution/resolving ability?  I don't want to downgrade in that area.
> 
> Honestly the SDR I made was very good, but seemed to shave the highs off a bit too much for me, so I was just looking for other amp options.  I will probably get the proper version from Sorrodje soon to see what it does because the Jot is so good it would be a shame to sell it.


 
  
 Based on what you've said, I would now say that the BHC is probably not what you're looking for. It's a more euphoric and organic sound but gives up some resolution and transparency to higher end amps. The Crack is sublime with the hd650 but for whatever reason does not quite make the same magic with the hd800. The mainline would be closer to what you seek but much more expensive.


----------



## Thenewguy007

fjrabon said:


> So, I bought a subpac (click here for amazon link).  And I kind of expected it to be a gimmick.  But holy schiit, this things really fills out the bass without getting in the way at all of the midrange and treble.  I don't use the subpac's built in headphone amp because its complete garbage.
> 
> It allowed me to actually roll off a good bit of sonarworks auditory bass boost, because I'm getting a tactile bass boost, that somehow actually makes the bass *sound* louder in addition to feeling it.  I'm really quite impressed with it matching it with the HD800.  Listening to AC/DC Back In Black right now and it just sounds so ALIVE.  It's not jsut hip hop that comes alive either.  Organ based classical music "feels" right now, which before I never enjoyed organ based classical music on anything other than large speakers.  Also Sprach Zarathustra prelude is a religious experience with this pairing, it allows you to make out much more detail in percussion, and the big moments of that piece hit you like they should.  Classic rock kick drums punch you like a live concert.  It brings bring upright bass alive for live jazz.
> 
> ...




What the hell? A audiophile backpack?

So does it just simulate bass & vibrates your back or does it connect to the amp/headphone & actually provide power to increase bass response?


----------



## fjrabon

thenewguy007 said:


> What the hell? A audiophile backpack?
> 
> So does it just simulate bass & vibrates your back or does it connect to the amp/headphone & actually provide power to increase bass response?


 

 It simulates the physical feel that in real life bass gives.  We've known for a while that we "hear" bass as much through our core (chest or back dependent on the way you are facing) as we do through our ears.  That's the biggest reason that nobody ever agrees on what neutral bass is with headphones, because everybody agrees that headphones need more bass than measures exactly neutral, we just never agree how much extra bass headphones need.  But even if you got that amoutn exactly right, your brain sort of knows something artificial is going on, because it knows that you should be feeling anything below 200Hz in your core.  
  
 No, it isn't a bass boost for your headphones.  I actually have it running through an entirely different DAC than my headphones.  
  


 If you see this diagram, "digital out" is what I have feeding the MiMBy, which in turn feeds the TorpedoIII, which goes to the HD800.  AudioEngineD1 is a USB output that goes to the D1, which then feeds Subpac. 
  
 So, as you can see the headphone and subpac don't directly interact.  I actually had to switch to minimum phase in Sonarworks, because linear phase meant that they were out of sync by about a thousandth of a second.  Not enough to hear them as being out of sync, but enough to make the bass seem a bit "wooly" like how it sounds out of something like a M50X that doesn't have great phase alignment in the bass between L&R.  
  
 But yeah, it allows you to "feel" the bass like you would in real life.  Somehow your brain then interprets this and makes it sound louder to you.  It actually sounds like you're turning on a bass boost circuit when you turn subpac on, even though it doesn't actually produce any dicernible auditory sound.  But since you aren't pumping extra bass into your ears, your ears retain their ability to hear fine detail, like they do when listening to a bright headphone.  So you get the best of both worlds.  It also, to me, seems to expand the soundstage a bit, somehow.  The only explanation I can think of is that it expands the portion of my body that is "receiving" sound and thus seems more expansive.  
  
 I actually wear it backwards when sitting down, ie on my chest.  If I wear it on my back, my brain actually flips the soundstage and I hear things as coming from behind me.  This effect is very pronounced with non-angled headphones.  With the HD800, it's kind of a weird effect having it on your back, it's like the bass is behind you but the rest of the band is in front of you.  But it's perfect to just flip it around and put it on your chest.


----------



## DavidA

matttcg said:


> Based on what you've said, I would now say that the BHC is probably not what you're looking for. It's a more euphoric and organic sound but gives up some resolution and transparency to higher end amps. The Crack is sublime with the hd650 but for whatever reason does not quite make the same magic with the hd800. The mainline would be closer to what you seek but much more expensive.


 
 Agree with you on the BH Crack, its very good with the HD-650 but with the HD-800 it does give up a bit of sound stage, resolution and transparency to amps a little higher up the ladder like the Liquid Carbon and Elise I just got to audition but to some the more euphoric /organic sound with the BH Crack is preferred.


----------



## ColtMrFire

matttcg said:


> Based on what you've said, I would now say that the BHC is probably not what you're looking for. It's a more euphoric and organic sound but gives up some resolution and transparency to higher end amps. The Crack is sublime with the hd650 but for whatever reason does not quite make the same magic with the hd800. The mainline would be closer to what you seek but much more expensive.


 
  
 Thanks.  I guess BHC is a no go for me then.
  
 Only other budget tube amp that compares to Jot is Valhalla 2 but that lacked slam and that's important for the 800 for me at least.


----------



## MattTCG

coltmrfire said:


> Thanks.  I guess BHC is a no go for me then.
> 
> Only other budget tube amp that compares to Jot is Valhalla 2 but that lacked slam and that's important for the 800 for me at least.


 
  
 My criteria for an amp for the hd800 is pretty difficult on that kind of budget. My advice is to save you money and get THE amp for the 800 that you really want.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

coltmrfire said:


> Thanks.  I guess BHC is a no go for me then.
> 
> Only other budget tube amp that compares to Jot is Valhalla 2 but that lacked slam and that's important for the 800 for me at least.


 

 just get a Mjolnir 2 and call it a day


----------



## jibzilla

matttcg said:


> My criteria for an amp for the hd800 is pretty difficult on that kind of budget. My advice is to save you money and get THE amp for the 800 that you really want.


 
  
 Do your research first though. I think the original Mojo, Bha-1 and Beta 22 are all great amps...but with the hd650. With the hd800 they are awfully bright sounding despite the hefty price tag despite them getting their well deserved praises you really need to focus more on amps with ohm output. It's not the ohm output itself but the voicing that usually goes with it that will make an hd800 sing. For the around the same price of the amps I just mentioned you can get a used wheatfield ha-2 or d.i.y. mainline and see night and day differences for the better imo. Take the amp up to a Stratus, Teton or ECP Ravenswood and I honestly do not think there is allot out there regardless of price that can best it from an overall perspective. It is just a really hard headphone to beat from a build quality and comfort standpoint. Get the amp right and it is just really hard to best period.
  
 For the record there are SS amps with no ohm output that drive the hd800 well but I look at them as a bit more all arounders. Burson Soloist, V281, and Gsx-mk2 come to mind. I think that they are all really great amps and would put my new Apex Sangaku among them. Kind of equally good at driving hd800's and hd650's/Lcd-2's/Elear's etc. Very nice but not quite to the level of ha-2, mainline, Stratus etc.


----------



## Yoga

Lavricable HD800 Master edition turned up today (6N pure silver, 12 core). 150 hour burn in recommended for it to really open up and smoothen, but straight off the bat it's fantastic! Very good price too, and a fast turnaround.
  

  
 Balanced V281 is indeed a different beast. Incredible!


----------



## ColtMrFire

bosiemoncrieff said:


> just get a Mjolnir 2 and call it a day




Is this as good as the amps jibzilla mentioned in the previous post?


----------



## fjrabon

jibzilla said:


> Do your research first though. I think the original Mojo, Bha-1 and Beta 22 are all great amps...but with the hd650. With the hd800 they are awfully bright sounding despite the hefty price tag despite them getting their well deserved praises you really need to focus more on amps with ohm output. It's not the ohm output itself but the voicing that usually goes with it that will make an hd800 sing. For the around the same price of the amps I just mentioned you can get a used wheatfield ha-2 or d.i.y. mainline and see night and day differences for the better imo. Take the amp up to a Stratus, Teton or ECP Ravenswood and I honestly do not think there is allot out there regardless of price that can best it from an overall perspective. It is just a really hard headphone to beat from a build quality and comfort standpoint. Get the amp right and it is just really hard to best period.
> 
> For the record there are SS amps with no ohm output that drive the hd800 well but I look at them as a bit more all arounders. Burson Soloist, V281, and Gsx-mk2 come to mind. I think that they are all really great amps and would put my new Apex Sangaku among them. Kind of equally good at driving hd800's and hd650's/Lcd-2's/Elear's etc. Very nice but not quite to the level of ha-2, mainline, Stratus etc.




So basically you just want the EQ effect for the bass boost? For whatever it's worth Sennheiser's engineers have said HD800 was designed to be at its best with low output impedance amps.


----------



## Yoga

I used to own Burson amps (Conductor & Conductor Virtuoso), while they are great, they are not comparable to the V281. A top SS with EQ matches top tube amps. Surpasses some IME (Eddie Current).


----------



## Arniesb

fjrabon said:


> So basically you just want the EQ effect for the bass boost? For whatever it's worth Sennheiser's engineers have said HD800 was designed to be at its best with low output impedance amps.


Sennheiser own amp have high 50ohm output... This is not low number i think.


----------



## fjrabon

arniesb said:


> Sennheiser own amp have high 50ohm output... This is not low number i think.




It's low enough to not impact the frequency response in the bass more than 1dB. 50 is fine to me, I don't notice any slower impulse response or ringing with 50 ohms. It's as we get to the 100 ohm output amps that you hear both a slowing of the impulse response, a bit of ringing and a mid-bass boost around 120Hz or thereabouts. The bass boost with a 100ohm amp isn't huge, like maybe 3dB. Some people may like this effect, as it can make the HD800 a bit more euphonic. If you don't like the "edginess" the HD800 can have, it's a way to "fix" it. But to me a high impedance amp (75 ohms or higher) does slow down the HD800's technical performance. With a very good low impedance amp, the HD800 can be so fast and have so little ringing, it almost sounds electrostat like. 

My approach has been to fix frequency response issues with EQ, so that with the amp I can focus on transparency, THD profile and speed. To me, the HD800 benefits from a bit of 2nd and especially 3rd harmonic distortion, and wants as much 4th harmonic distortion cut out as possible. HD800 also benefits from well loaded current/voltage supplied to the output stage. Putting all that together informs what I'm after in an HD800 amp. I start by looking for those things as best I can and then just listen to them. 

Balanced vs. single end, in my experience, depends much more on the amp than being an HD800 necessity. A well implemented single end design can sound virtually identical to a well implemented balanced design on the HD800. I think the idea that balanced is better for it comes from the fact that most amps that have both simply have a better balanced output than single end. So people switch back and forth, hear that the balanced output sounds better on that amp, and then just assume balanced sounds better with HD800 in general. Also, going balanced has historically forced HD800 owners to upgrade their cable as well, to some benefit.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I agree about the perception of single ended vs balanced. Mostly depends on the topology of the amp. Listening to the hd800 on a good solid state amp single ended with EQ right now and the sound is breathtaking.


----------



## ColtMrFire

The balanced out on the Jot sounds noticeably superior to SE.  I tested it with the same XLR cable using a SE adapter to swap back and forth.  There difference was impossible to miss.  It being my first and only balanced out amp, I assumed balanced was inherently superior.  I guess not necessarily true.
  
 But doesn't balanced out also provide some inherent benefits over SE?  Like something about channel separation?  I'm not at all technically knowledgeable about the specifics.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> The balanced out on the Jot sounds noticeably superior to SE.  I tested it with the same XLR cable using a SE adapter to swap back and forth.  There difference was impossible to miss.  It being my first and only balanced out amp, I assumed balanced was inherently superior.  I guess not necessarily true.
> 
> But doesn't balanced out also provide some inherent benefits over SE?  Like something about channel separation?  I'm not at all technically knowledgeable about the specifics.




That depends on the amp design. Fully balanced setup from start to finish obviously limits crosstalk as much as can be limited. But a well designed single end system doesn't have inherent issues with crosstalk either. It's just that for years most headphone amps had lots of crosstalk because they were, to put it bluntly, poor designs. If both outputs are well designed, the difference in channel separation is either nonexistent or inaudible. 

Balanced output was designed for long cable runs of 20 feet or more in speaker systems. That's it and most electrical engineers will tell you that's the absolute only point of balanced output. When Tyll designed the first monoblock balanced headphone amp, it was mostly just because amps of that time had lots of crosstalk and lacked power for difficult to drive headphones of the day. Grado was selling a glorified CMoy for like $500 back then. Headphone amplification as an industry was in shambles at that point. So it fixed those issues in one fell swoop. But while balanced is one way to fix crosstalk and lack of power, it's certainly not the only way. 

One other issue is that the vast majority of amps that have both balanced and single end outputs, the balanced output is simply slightly louder. So, unless you're obsessive about volume matching with a dB meter, you're almost definitely listening to the balanced output slightly louder, which every test ever has confirmed that people prefer the louder sounding output, all else equal. So, most of the difference goes away if you simply turn down the balanced output. 

I've only ever listened to Jot in balanced, so I can't comment. It wouldn't at all surprise me if Jot sounds better balanced, as that's kind of the whole point of Jot, right? To be the cheapest way to get upper mid-fi balanced output. So, it would make sense if it simply had a better balanced out than single end. But again, I never actually listened to its single end output in the couple of times I've tried it out.


----------



## Arniesb

fjrabon said:


> It's low enough to not impact the frequency response in the bass more than 1dB. 50 is fine to me, I don't notice any slower impulse response or ringing with 50 ohms. It's as we get to the 100 ohm output amps that you hear both a slowing of the impulse response, a bit of ringing and a mid-bass boost around 120Hz or thereabouts. The bass boost with a 100ohm amp isn't huge, like maybe 3dB. Some people may like this effect, as it can make the HD800 a bit more euphonic. If you don't like the "edginess" the HD800 can have, it's a way to "fix" it. But to me a high impedance amp (75 ohms or higher) does slow down the HD800's technical performance. With a very good low impedance amp, the HD800 can be so fast and have so little ringing, it almost sounds electrostat like.
> 
> My approach has been to fix frequency response issues with EQ, so that with the amp I can focus on transparency, THD profile and speed. To me, the HD800 benefits from a bit of 2nd and especially 3rd harmonic distortion, and wants as much 4th harmonic distortion cut out as possible. HD800 also benefits from well loaded current/voltage supplied to the output stage. Putting all that together informs what I'm after in an HD800 amp. I start by looking for those things as best I can and then just listen to them.
> 
> Balanced vs. single end, in my experience, depends much more on the amp than being an HD800 necessity. A well implemented single end design can sound virtually identical to a well implemented balanced design on the HD800. I think the idea that balanced is better for it comes from the fact that most amps that have both simply have a better balanced output than single end. So people switch back and forth, hear that the balanced output sounds better on that amp, and then just assume balanced sounds better with HD800 in general. Also, going balanced has historically forced HD800 owners to upgrade their cable as well, to some benefit.


I agree 50ohm shouldn't be too bad. It means 1/6 ratio might be good enough. My T1 and A20 amp ratio is 1/6 and bass is quite tight (not tightest, but good enough). HD800S bass on the other hand becomes quite one noted and slow cause of 100ohm amp. Bass strength thou becomes quite impressive( i realy doubt you can get more bass power with other amp...) I tried to eq some bass to see how it candle heavy bass boosting and result... It can become bass monster!!! With eq it can have faaaaar more bass than Dt990, Hd650 or T1 and so on. Quite impressive!!!


----------



## Ani1000

Will i be getting 3D sound on Mojo using it's built in amp? 
I guess details and sounstage are most important to me, but you guys have monster amps, so this has me worried, i don't mind sacrificing some bass lol but not other stuff, but at 500$ budget i cant be picky.


----------



## fjrabon

ani1000 said:


> Will i be getting 3D sound on Mojo using it's built in amp?
> I guess details and sounstage are most important to me, but you guys have monster amps, so this has me worried, i don't mind sacrificing some bass lol but not other stuff, but at 500$ budget i cant be picky.




Mojo has very good details and soundstage. It's as good as anything else in your price range for HD800.


----------



## RogerWilco

Alot of great info from this thread , i enjoy reading


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

coltmrfire said:


> Is this as good as the amps jibzilla mentioned in the previous post?


 

 ask him. my bottom line is MJ2 is better than anything in its price class, but read my review for more.


----------



## ColtMrFire

bosiemoncrieff said:


> ask him. my bottom line is MJ2 is better than anything in its price class, but read my review for more.


 
  
 Where can I find your review?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Here.


----------



## ColtMrFire

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Here.


 
  
 Great review!
  
 Have you heard the Jotunheim?


----------



## fjrabon

bosiemoncrieff said:


> ask him. my bottom line is MJ2 is better than anything in its price class, but read my review for more.




What other amps have you tried and compared it to in its price class?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

fjrabon said:


> What other amps have you tried and compared it to in its price class?


 

 Carbon, Black Widow, fireflies, WA2, Phonitor (and mini), HDVA 600, as well as Valhalla, Lyr, GSX, WA5, WA5LE, WA22SE prototype, Liquid Gold, Liquid Crimson, and Liquid tungston prototype (adjacent price classes). While it can't compete with the high end amps for ultimate transparency or (in the case of Woo) lushness, it gets you 70 or 80 yards down the field. Barring coming into a great deal more money than I have now, I cannot justify the expense of one of those top-flight amplifiers.
  
 I have not heard Jotunheim.


----------



## ColtMrFire

So I'm kind of dumbfounded right now...
  
 I had been watching movies on my laptop with the HD800 plugged straight into the laptop.  It sounded pretty good, good enough for basic movie watching.
  
 As I've said, I had previously not been impressed with the laptop to Mimby USB connection.  But I decided it would probably sound better than straight out of the laptop so I gave it a try.  It did sound better.
  
 I started to get curious and decided to clean my USB cable, as I heard dirty cables can degrade performance, and I figured the 800 is sensitive enough to pick up things like that.  I had previously had success cleaning my interconnects.  
  
 I used basic isopropyl alcohol and q-tips, stripping most of the head until just a little bit of cloth remained.  Honestly I did not expect to hear a big improvement, maybe a little something better, but not night/day.
  
 And yes, it was a night/day difference.  That sense of the sound being slightly muffled/not as much air/clarity as I reported before was totally gone.  I really couldn't believe it.  I did some A/B tests of the same tracks between USB and Coax and USB now sounded MUCH closer to Coax than before, but still did not sound as good.
  
 I decided to download an old program I used to use when I was using computer audio, called Process Lasso.  It is some kind of computer optimization tool that manages programs to lessen the processing of the computer or something like that.  I had extremely positive results with it in the past.  After downloading it and running it, the sound of the USB was virtually identical to Coax!  I'd say there is still a 5% difference, but you kind of have to listen closely to hear it.
  
 This is good news, since I was really wanting to use my Sonarworks plugin to get rid of the pesky glare of the Jotunheim, while retaining the amp's amazing clarity and slam.  It's all there now!  So I am probably going to go back to computer audio, and maybe get the Uptone Regen again to further improve things.
  
 So good news.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> So I'm kind of dumbfounded right now...
> 
> I had been watching movies on my laptop with the HD800 plugged straight into the laptop.  It sounded pretty good, good enough for basic movie watching.
> 
> ...




Yeah, while coax does measure better than USB, it's not a significant audible difference based on the measurements; I'd always suspected something was going on with your USB, because you were saying it was night and day. I'm currently using optical, but that's mostly just because it's easy, I can't really hear a difference between optical and USB via wyrd.


----------



## fjrabon

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Carbon, Black Widow, fireflies, WA2, Phonitor (and mini), HDVA 600, as well as Valhalla, Lyr, GSX, WA5, WA5LE, WA22SE prototype, Liquid Gold, Liquid Crimson, and Liquid tungston prototype (adjacent price classes). While it can't compete with the high end amps for ultimate transparency or (in the case of Woo) lushness, it gets you 70 or 80 yards down the field. Barring coming into a great deal more money than I have now, I cannot justify the expense of one of those top-flight amplifiers.
> 
> I have not heard Jotunheim.




Nice. Yeah I came pretty close to getting a Mjo. I like it a lot. I liked the TIII better, but it's also more expensive and not as good looking. Mjo is also more versatile, as TIII isn't a good match with the HE6. If I had a HE6 and HD800, MJo would almost definitely have been the route I'd have gone.


----------



## whirlwind

matttcg said:


> ^^ I agree about the perception of single ended vs balanced. Mostly depends on the topology of the amp. Listening to the hd800 on a good solid state amp single ended with EQ right now and the sound is breathtaking.


 
  +1  all about the way the amp is designed.


----------



## jibzilla

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Carbon, Black Widow, fireflies, WA2, Phonitor (and mini), HDVA 600, as well as Valhalla, Lyr, GSX, WA5, WA5LE, WA22SE prototype, Liquid Gold, Liquid Crimson, and Liquid tungston prototype (adjacent price classes). While it can't compete with the high end amps for ultimate transparency or (in the case of Woo) lushness, it gets you 70 or 80 yards down the field. Barring coming into a great deal more money than I have now, I cannot justify the expense of one of those top-flight amplifiers.
> 
> I have not heard Jotunheim.


 
  
 Not much of a Woo or Cavalli guy. Tried out quite a bit of their offerings at this point as well and I feel safe saying they are not up my alley. GSX is a very legit amp to me though and so is the First Watt. I just look at them as more all arounders than strictly voiced for the hd800 like Mainline, Stratus, Teton, Ravenswood.


----------



## jibzilla

whirlwind said:


> +1  all about the way the amp is designed.


 
  
 Nobody talks about it nowadays but the Apex Pinnacle was/probably still is the undisputed king amp with hd800. Single Ended.


----------



## vc1187

jibzilla said:


> Not much of a Woo or Cavalli guy. Tried out quite a bit of their offerings at this point as well and I feel safe saying they are not up my alley. GSX is a very legit amp to me though and so is the First Watt. I just look at them as more all arounders than strictly voiced for the hd800 like Mainline, Stratus, Teton, Ravenswood.




The Stratus was actually voiced with the K1000 in mind.
That said, it is a great all-rounder too, which is why many like it with different headphones, including the hd800.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

vc1187 said:


> The Stratus was actually voiced with the K1000 in mind.
> That said, it is a great all-rounder too, which is why many like it with different headphones, including the hd800.


 
  
 Agreed.  The Stratus is also outstanding with LCD's, He1k, Utopia and even HE6's.  
  
 Heck, it is actually wonderful with the Abyss.
  
 I also don't consider the Pinnacle the 'king' with the HD800.  As excellent as it is, I wholeheartedly dispute that


----------



## Thenewguy007

yoga said:


> Lavricable HD800 Master edition turned up today (6N pure silver, 12 core). 150 hour burn in recommended for it to really open up and smoothen, but straight off the bat it's fantastic! Very good price too, and a fast turnaround.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Make sure to give us your impressions of it when burned in in comparison to your stock cable?

I been eyeing a silver Lavricable myself, but a bit uneasy about the quality of the final product since it's from China & has no reviews.


----------



## Thenewguy007

jibzilla said:


> Nobody talks about it nowadays but the Apex Pinnacle was/probably still is the undisputed king amp with hd800. Single Ended.




There is a reason for that. $10,000 for a OTL (? or is it a OPT design) amp that doesn't use 2A3, 300b or 45 tubes?

Even the Eddie Current Studio & DNA Stellaris cost less.


----------



## ColtMrFire

fjrabon said:


> Yeah, while coax does measure better than USB, it's not a significant audible difference based on the measurements; I'd always suspected something was going on with your USB, because you were saying it was night and day. I'm currently using optical, but that's mostly just because it's easy, I can't really hear a difference between optical and USB via wyrd.


 
  
 It is still not quite there.  If I had my old HD600 I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference, but the 800, especially through the ultra clear Jot picks up the finest details.  I have a feeling adding the Wyrd or Regen will get it 99% at least.


----------



## Yoga

thenewguy007 said:


> Make sure to give us your impressions of it when burned in in comparison to your stock cable?
> 
> I been eyeing a silver Lavricable myself, but a bit uneasy about the quality of the final product since it's from China & has no reviews.


 
  
 Will do. Although as I only have this one balanced HD800 cable I'm not going to be able to tell how much is the move from SE to balanced via the V281.
  
 I can already hear more detail, and more importantly, more _realistic_ details. Imaging is most certainly better too.
  
 Lavricable is EU based; Latvia.


----------



## RogerWilco

I have had the Master 14 SE from Lavricable for the last year- it's simply Awesome !


----------



## Yoga

rogerwilco said:


> I have had the Master 14 SE from Lavricable for the last year- it's simply Awesome !


 

 Having had Toxic Cable's Silver Widow previously, I am inclined to agree. These are very, very good cables.
  
 Build quality is top notch too @Thenewguy007, no need to worry there. It took 2 weeks to get to me, but that was over Xmas/New Year and I also requested gold Neutrik connectors which had to be ordered in. Considering other companies are taking 3-6 (!) months (hint: you need more staff), one can consider that lightning fast :¬)


----------



## lavricables

thanks for your kind words, guys! 
 yes, 150h burn in time for silver is highly recommended!

*Thenewguy007*
 few words here.


----------



## jmac1516

yoga said:


> Having had Toxic Cable's Silver Widow previously, I am inclined to agree. These are very, very good cables.
> 
> Build quality is top notch too @Thenewguy007, no need to worry there. It took 2 weeks to get to me, but that was over Xmas/New Year and I also requested gold Neutrik connectors which had to be ordered in. Considering other companies are taking 3-6 (!) months (hint: you need more staff), one can consider that lightning fast :¬)


 
 Do you find the pure silver to add brightness to the 800 (or 800S)?


----------



## ColtMrFire

jmac1516 said:


> Do you find the pure silver to add brightness to the 800 (or 800S)?


 
  
 Yeah, I would think silver is to be avoided with this headphones, unless maybe the amp does a good job of shaving the brightness.  But I have silver interconnects and they definitely sound more realistic than copper, so I see why people want silver.


----------



## RogerWilco

Hey there colt , silver does have a more lively presentation from  my experience , i only run tube gear , even my R-2R dac  has a tube buffered output (*6N30P-DR)  *


----------



## Yoga

jmac1516 said:


> Do you find the pure silver to add brightness to the 800 (or 800S)?


 

 It's added air, clarity and resolution (treble sounds more natural). No brightness whatsoever (I'm very sensitive to it and can't touch stock HD800's with a barge pole). Sonarworks sorts all that out and brings the HD800 surprisingly in-line with my professional studio monitors. 
  
 Next thing on my list is to use @fjrabon 's cross feed / speaker emulation settings (CanOpener / Mid Side) as my own starting points to see how close I can really get them.


----------



## fjrabon

yoga said:


> It's added air, clarity and resolution (treble sounds more natural). No brightness whatsoever (I'm very sensitive to it and can't touch stock HD800's with a barge pole). Sonarworks sorts all that out and brings the HD800 surprisingly in-line with my professional studio monitors.
> 
> Next thing on my list is to use @fjrabon 's cross feed / speaker emulation settings (CanOpener / Mid Side) as my own starting points to see how close I can really get them.


 

 yep, one of the great things about sonarworks is you don't have to use gear that pulls away resolution in order to make it less bright.  You can go for pure fidelity with cables and amps without needing euphonic distortion to make the HD800 less bright.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Headroom Desktop Amp any good with the HD800?


----------



## nepherte

jmac1516 said:


> Do you find the pure silver to add brightness to the 800 (or 800S)?


 
  


coltmrfire said:


> Yeah, I would think silver is to be avoided with this headphones, unless maybe the amp does a good job of shaving the brightness.  But I have silver interconnects and they definitely sound more realistic than copper, so I see why people want silver.


 
  
 I have to disagree here. The DHC Silver Complement4 (silver cable) was an audible upgrade to my Forza Audio HPC Noir (copper cable). Both excellent cables in their budget, but a silver cable "done right" matches perfectly with the HD800.


----------



## skhan007

Just picked up my HD800's this week and I'm REALLY happy with them. I had tried them out and then went back and bought them, after recognizing how well they sounded. I did a bit of A/B testing with a couple of Audeze, ZMF, AKG, Fostex, and probably others I can't recall. I'm currently listening through an Apogee Duet, which I've had for years and it sounds phenomenal. 
  
 I have tried the HD800's with a couple of tube amps- the MicroZotl2, Woo WA7 Fireflies, and Schiit Lyr2. All sounded amazing.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> Headroom Desktop Amp any good with the HD800?



Yes


----------



## Fearless1

coltmrfire said:


> Headroom Desktop Amp any good with the HD800?




Excellent


----------



## Yoga

Goodhertz Update! Found these settings to be optimal for my setup (V281, HD800, SWR3).
  
*CanOpener*
  

  
*MidSide*
  

  
 Edit: The third value from the left (Side tilt gain) is actually *-1dB*. Not sure why it was +1 in this screenshot.
  
 Marvellous! Most certainly sounds more like my studio monitors. Much more natural.

 Cheers @fjrabon for the nudge and starting points.


----------



## fjrabon

yoga said:


> Goodhertz Update! Found these settings to be optimal for my setup (V281, HD800, SWR3).
> 
> *CanOpener*
> 
> ...




Glad you're enjoying it. Really was a game changer for me. Should improve as you fiddle with the settings over time and better optimize it for your system/preferences. With those plus sonarworks and subpac, I've gotten my system really close to my friends half a million dollar Focal setup. I know that seems like an insane exaggeration but yeah, it's really dang good.


----------



## Yoga

fjrabon said:


> Glad you're enjoying it. Really was a game changer for me. Should improve as you fiddle with the settings over time and better optimize it for your system/preferences. With those plus sonarworks and subpac, I've gotten my system really close to my friends half a million dollar Focal setup. I know that seems like an insane exaggeration but yeah, it's really dang good.


 
  
 I have a great reference point: I've been producing and mixing a tune for a solid month now, so I know *exactly* what should be where with regards to soundstage. I could dial the settings quite quickly to position everything. I'll spend more time making it perfect once the track is finished (as things change during mixing), which will be the next couple of days.

 Something I wasn't expecting: CanOpener and MidSide have added a warmth/coherence/gentleness to the sound without sacrificing detail. They'll most certainly be a permanent feature with HD800 use. Time to buy!
  
 Edit: Tweaking from memory at the moment as it's 2am and I can't wake the neighbours with the speakers. I've already shifted the M/S to +3 and -3 as per your own settings. Tomorrow I can make A/B comparisons :¬)


----------



## fjrabon

yoga said:


> I have a great reference point: I've been producing and mixing a tune for a solid month now, so I know *exactly* what should be where with regards to soundstage. I could dial the settings quite quickly to position everything. I'll spend more time making it perfect once the track is finished (as things change during mixing), which will be the next couple of days.
> 
> 
> Something I wasn't expecting: CanOpener and MidSide have added a warmth/coherence/gentleness to the sound without sacrificing detail. They'll most certainly be a permanent feature with HD800 use. Time to buy!
> ...




Yeah, I've talked to the people from goodhertz and apparently good crossfeed adds perceptual warmth without changing the measured frequency response. Because it shifts some extreme left right treble to the other side, the full force of any hard sides treble doesn't completely slam one ear or the other. This leads to perceived warmth without losing detail (if you're very treble sensitive it can actually enhance detail because it doesn't kill your ear with Ice pick hard panned treble, allowing other detail to be heard more easily).

Edit: as much as I love talking about CanOpener/midside we should probably head over to the CanOpener thread if you want to go into more detail.


----------



## twiceboss

fjrabon said:


> It simulates the physical feel that in real life bass gives.  We've known for a while that we "hear" bass as much through our core (chest or back dependent on the way you are facing) as we do through our ears.  That's the biggest reason that nobody ever agrees on what neutral bass is with headphones, because everybody agrees that headphones need more bass than measures exactly neutral, we just never agree how much extra bass headphones need.  But even if you got that amoutn exactly right, your brain sort of knows something artificial is going on, because it knows that you should be feeling anything below 200Hz in your core.
> 
> No, it isn't a bass boost for your headphones.  I actually have it running through an entirely different DAC than my headphones.
> 
> ...


 
 what if this one:
 https://www.amazon.com/SubPac-S2-Seatback-Physical-System/dp/B00YUMOOQ0/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&srs=12034488011&ie=UTF8&qid=1483605281&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=subpac&th=1
  
 i hate to wear everytime listening to songs, just put on the chair. Is it the same thing? or the m2 is better than s2?


----------



## RogerWilco

Thats pretty cool, may have to try that out myself!


----------



## 09music

Anyone here tried the older grace design m902 any good? Tried to search it but no luck.TIA


----------



## fjrabon

twiceboss said:


> what if this one:
> https://www.amazon.com/SubPac-S2-Seatback-Physical-System/dp/B00YUMOOQ0/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&srs=12034488011&ie=UTF8&qid=1483605281&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=subpac&th=1
> 
> i hate to wear everytime listening to songs, just put on the chair. Is it the same thing? or the m2 is better than s2?




I like the M2 better because you can wear it on your chest, which to me feels more realistic. But S2 should work fine as well.


----------



## fjrabon

09music said:


> Anyone here tried the older grace design m902 any good? Tried to search it but no luck.TIA




Yes. Very good, though overpriced if you aren't using all its features.


----------



## mrmarano

coltmrfire said:


> Headroom Desktop Amp any good with the HD800?


 
  
 Yes, absolutely.
  
 The crossfeed circuit, which I use even on mono recordings, warms the top end and smooths out the sound stage. I never use the brightness filter.
  
 Compliments the 800 nicely.


----------



## 09music

fjrabon said:


> Yes. Very good, though overpriced if you aren't using all its features.




Thanks! Have you tried the wa2, if yes which you prefer wa2 or 902? Both priced similarly 700$ used..


----------



## ColtMrFire

fjrabon said:


> Yes


 
  
 Better than Jotunheim?


----------



## fjrabon

Regarding Jotenheim vs headroom desktop and Grace m902 vs WA2: I've heard all of them, and they all sounded great with HD800, however I heard them all at separate meets/get togethers and not at the same time in controlled conditions to make detailed judgments of which is better. I couldn't see anybody being reasonably disappointed with any of them with HD800, but which is best probably depends much more on your system needs, personal preferences and upstream components than one being "better." They're all the same tier of "near end game" of getting you almost all the way there, like 99.99% but lacking a tiny amount from things like the Taurus, Torpedo, DHSA2, ragnarok, V281, etc. 

About all I can say is Jotenheim is clearly the brightest of those 4, Grace m902 is most versatile, WA2 is the most euphonic and headroom desktop is probably the most neutral. They're all extremely dynamic and provide all the power the HD800 needs. Jotenheim can border on harsh if you pair it with the wrong DAC. WA2 lacks some ultimate transparency. For some people headroom desktop's tonality changes too much with crossfeed on and off.


----------



## Yoga

fjrabon said:


> Regarding Jotenheim vs headroom desktop and Grace m902 vs WA2: I've heard all of them, and they all sounded great with HD800, however I heard them all at separate meets/get togethers and not at the same time in controlled conditions to make detailed judgments of which is better. I couldn't see anybody being reasonably disappointed with any of them with HD800, but which is best probably depends much more on your system needs, personal preferences and upstream components than one being "better." They're all the same tier of "near end game" of getting you almost all the way there, like 99.99% but lacking a tiny amount from things like the Taurus, Torpedo, DHSA2, ragnarok, V281, etc.
> 
> About all I can say is Jotenheim is clearly the brightest of those 4, Grace m902 is most versatile, WA2 is the most euphonic and headroom desktop is probably the most neutral. They're all extremely dynamic and provide all the power the HD800 needs. Jotenheim can border on harsh if you pair it with the wrong DAC. WA2 lacks some ultimate transparency. For some people headroom desktop's tonality changes too much with crossfeed on and off.


 

 Are there any amps you _haven't_ heard? :¬)


----------



## fjrabon

yoga said:


> Are there any amps you _haven't_ heard? :¬)




Ha, one of the benefits of running several meets plus a decently large show in a fairly large city. Weirdly I've heard basically none of the FiiO, SMSL and audiogd stuff. Also want to hear the airist heron 5 and phonitor but haven't had a chance to hear those.


----------



## 09music

fjrabon said:


> Regarding Jotenheim vs headroom desktop and Grace m902 vs WA2: I've heard all of them, and they all sounded great with HD800, however I heard them all at separate meets/get togethers and not at the same time in controlled conditions to make detailed judgments of which is better. I couldn't see anybody being reasonably disappointed with any of them with HD800, but which is best probably depends much more on your system needs, personal preferences and upstream components than one being "better." They're all the same tier of "near end game" of getting you almost all the way there, like 99.99% but lacking a tiny amount from things like the Taurus, Torpedo, DHSA2, ragnarok, V281, etc.
> 
> About all I can say is Jotenheim is clearly the brightest of those 4, Grace m902 is most versatile, WA2 is the most euphonic and headroom desktop is probably the most neutral. They're all extremely dynamic and provide all the power the HD800 needs. Jotenheim can border on harsh if you pair it with the wrong DAC. WA2 lacks some ultimate transparency. For some people headroom desktop's tonality changes too much with crossfeed on and off.




Thanks for that comparison!


----------



## fjrabon

09music said:


> Thanks for that comparison!




No problem, but again, I would absolutely defer to anybody who has done in depth side by side listening with any of these, as my listening of them was brief, in a meet environment and they were 4 different meets each several months apart. And using different source gear and different HD800s in some cases.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

fjrabon said:


> Ha, one of the benefits of running several meets plus a decently large show in a fairly large city. Weirdly I've heard basically none of the FiiO, SMSL and audiogd stuff. Also want to hear the airist heron 5 and phonitor but haven't had a chance to hear those.



Have you heard the Sennheiser HDVD800 DAC/amp (or HDVA600 amp) with the HD800, @fjrabon? How would you compare it to the others you found suited for the HD800? Thanks!


----------



## ColtMrFire

fjrabon said:


> Regarding Jotenheim vs headroom desktop and Grace m902 vs WA2: I've heard all of them, and they all sounded great with HD800, however I heard them all at separate meets/get togethers and not at the same time in controlled conditions to make detailed judgments of which is better. I couldn't see anybody being reasonably disappointed with any of them with HD800, but which is best probably depends much more on your system needs, personal preferences and upstream components than one being "better." They're all the same tier of "near end game" of getting you almost all the way there, like 99.99% but lacking a tiny amount from things like the Taurus, Torpedo, DHSA2, ragnarok, V281, etc.
> 
> About all I can say is Jotenheim is clearly the brightest of those 4, Grace m902 is most versatile, WA2 is the most euphonic and headroom desktop is probably the most neutral. They're all extremely dynamic and provide all the power the HD800 needs. Jotenheim can border on harsh if you pair it with the wrong DAC. WA2 lacks some ultimate transparency. For some people headroom desktop's tonality changes too much with crossfeed on and off.


 
  
 Wonderfully informative post.  Thank you.
  
 Someone is offering to trade a Headroom for my Jotun, that's why I asked.  Jotunheim can definitely border on too bright, mostly for pop but anything brightly mastered will border on unpleasant, but not terribly so, more like mild irritation... but that can get annoying after having it happen so much.  Most of my music is not bright (alot of classical and jazz), so it isn't a huge problem.  Jotunheim's problem is also its strength.  The bright treble is what gives it amazing clarity.  The problem is the HD800 already has a treble tilt, so it can get exacerbated.  I have decided I'd rather not mod the 800s, as it seems to slightly reduce some of the headphone's trademark transparency and soundstage... too much for my tastes.
  
 Minuses for the Headroom is it doesn't have a balanced output since I have an aftermarket balanced cable for the 800, which does a nice job of shaving off the harshness by 90% or so.  I suppose I can get an XLR to 1/4 adapter and keep using the cable.  I wonder how Headroom pairs with the Modi MB (my DAC).  I understand no one can quantify which amp is "better", but I wonder if Headroom is a more suitable amp for the HD800 in terms of the treble issues.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Does anyone use a power conditioner?  I had a weird situation just now when I turned my washing machine and dryer on.  The sound got tizzy/harsh out of the Jot, very subtle but very noticeable and slowly started hurting my ears.  When I turned them off, the sound became smooth and comfortable again.  I did not realize it was the washer/dryer at first... the sound just became uncomfortably treble heavy, and as a hunch, I simply turned the dryer off and the problem went away.  I even use a power conditioner, a Belkin PURE AV, lower priced unit I got from ebay.  So it's strange it would not filter this out.  
  
 I did not realize the 800 was this sensitive to something as trivial as power supply, I knew power was important before I got the 800, but it was mostly to protect my gear and maybe get a slight improvement in the sound, which is what happened... but my old headphones were not sensitive enough to pick up subtle inconsistencies like this.  I may need to look into getting a better conditioner.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

coltmrfire said:


> *Does anyone use a power conditioner?*  I had a weird situation just now when I turned my washing machine and dryer on.  The sound got tizzy/harsh out of the Jot, very subtle but very noticeable and slowly started hurting my ears.  When I turned them off, the sound became smooth and comfortable again.  I did not realize it was the washer/dryer at first... the sound just became uncomfortably treble heavy, and as a hunch, I simply turned the dryer off and the problem went away.  I even use a power conditioner, a Belkin PURE AV, lower priced unit I got from ebay.  So it's strange it would not filter this out.
> 
> I did not realize the 800 was this sensitive to something as trivial as power supply, I knew power was important before I got the 800, but it was mostly to protect my gear and maybe get a slight improvement in the sound, which is what happened... but my old headphones were not sensitive enough to pick up subtle inconsistencies like this.  I may need to look into getting a better conditioner.


 
  
 Yes.  I live in a condo and the power here is a disaster.  I have a P5 and it reads that THD in can be as high as 8% and with a multimeter voltage can be anywhere from 105 to 125v.  I would be willing to downgrade any other part of my system before I downgraded my P5.
  
 Obviously not everyone has as bad power as I do so in my case it is more crucial than others but power 100%, without a doubt, positively, absolutely matters.


----------



## FLTWS

bigfatpaulie said:


> Yes.  I live in a condo and the power here is a disaster.  I have a P5 and it reads that THD in can be as high as 8% and with a multimeter voltage can be anywhere from 105 to 125v.  I would be willing to downgrade any other part of my system before I downgraded my P5.
> 
> Obviously not everyone has as bad power as I do so in my case it is more crucial than others but power 100%, without a doubt, positively, absolutely matters.


 
  
 Me too. I moved in to this brand new unit in 2004 and all the electric wiring & hardware is up to current code. I use line conditioners but not really that needed in my case as the power is pretty clean or at least doesn't dump any garbage on the lines I can hear. But I use a pair of voltage regulators as voltage can be all over the place, especially from April to November which is air conditioning season for me. During June thru Sept I've measured below 105v when everyone in the complex is crankin' A/C.
  
 2nd reason, we have power outages a lot more often than I care think about. There usually multiple on/off events over the course of a just few minutes and that is absolutely no dam good for any of my Audio or Video gear. Between the conditioners and regulators I hope to avert the loss of anything. Especially my TV which, as I understand it, can't be fixed or replaced. It's a plasma and was discontinued years ago.


----------



## Yoga

Power conditioners. Prepare to spend some money :¬)

 Make sure you look into the pro audio market. Most (£££) studios use them, and Furman is often the choice. I use the PL 8 CE, which has the guts of their flagship model but without the pretty lights (and half the price). if yo look at the reviews on U.S. shops you'll see a lot of happy campers.

 Some say they compress the sound, other say they clean them up. Seems to be no single answer. I'm quite sure most people imagine most differences as you can't instantly A/B power change (throughout a system), so conformation bias and expectations/emotions can kick in and get n the way of a genuine comparison.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

fltws said:


> Me too. I moved in to this brand new unit in 2004 and all the electric wiring & hardware is up to current code. I use line conditioners but not really that needed in my case as the power is pretty clean or at least doesn't dump any garbage on the lines I can hear. But I use a pair of voltage regulators as voltage can be all over the place, especially from April to November which is air conditioning season for me. During June thru Sept I've measured below 105v when everyone in the complex is crankin' A/C.
> 
> 2nd reason, we have power outages a lot more often than I care think about. There usually multiple on/off events over the course of a just few minutes and that is absolutely no dam good for any of my Audio or Video gear. Between the conditioners and regulators I hope to avert the loss of anything. Especially my TV which, as I understand it, can't be fixed or replaced. It's a plasma and was discontinued years ago.


 

 We have solar panels and are looking at a Tesla Powerwall (or two, or three). Obviously cutting the grid altogether is a ballsy move, and we likely won't, but I've never noticed any power problems per se.


----------



## fjrabon

ruthieandjohn said:


> Have you heard the Sennheiser HDVD800 DAC/amp (or HDVA600 amp) with the HD800, @fjrabon? How would you compare it to the others you found suited for the HD800? Thanks!




Yes, I tried it out. It was a contender until I settled on the TorpedoIII. It's great. It's neutral and smooth. The DAC lacks some ultimate detail of top quality DACs. And higher end amps are a bit more transparent and dynamic. It can't compete with the truly top end amps for the HD800, but given what they're selling for now, it's quite good for the price.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

fjrabon said:


> Yes, I tried it out. It was a contender until I settled on the TorpedoIII. It's great. It's neutral and smooth. The DAC lacks some ultimate detail of top quality DACs. And higher end amps are a bit more transparent and dynamic. It can't compete with the truly top end amps for the HD800, but given what they're selling for now, it's quite good for the price.


 

 I'm frankly stunned that Sennheiser insists on remaining in the DAC business. Gumby destroys the HDVD in terms of the DAC section, and I'm sure it destroys the HE-1 DAC as well. Headphones, yes. Amps—if you must. DACs? Go home, Axel Grell, you're drunk.


----------



## Hansotek

coltmrfire said:


> Does anyone use a power conditioner?  I had a weird situation just now when I turned my washing machine and dryer on.  The sound got tizzy/harsh out of the Jot, very subtle but very noticeable and slowly started hurting my ears.  When I turned them off, the sound became smooth and comfortable again.  I did not realize it was the washer/dryer at first... the sound just became uncomfortably treble heavy, and as a hunch, I simply turned the dryer off and the problem went away.  I even use a power conditioner, a Belkin PURE AV, lower priced unit I got from ebay.  So it's strange it would not filter this out.
> 
> I did not realize the 800 was this sensitive to something as trivial as power supply, I knew power was important before I got the 800, but it was mostly to protect my gear and maybe get a slight improvement in the sound, which is what happened... but my old headphones were not sensitive enough to pick up subtle inconsistencies like this.  I may need to look into getting a better conditioner.




Yeah man, I had a similar issue in my last apartment. When my A/C kicked on, or a lot of electronics were going, my gear would sound harsh and uneven. I tried a few power conditioners from furman, etc., and they didn't do much. I actually found it was a massive difference when I picked up the PS Audio Duet on a recommendation from a friend. No more issues, no matter what was running. And even when everything was off the difference was still very noticeable, with a much lower noise floor and more powerful dynamics. I think I got it for like $200 or something. Worth every penny.


----------



## RogerWilco

I use the Balanced Power Technologies BP-1 and 2 Alpha Furutech Flux-50 Filters


----------



## ColtMrFire

hansotek said:


> Yeah man, I had a similar issue in my last apartment. When my A/C kicked on, or a lot of electronics were going, my gear would sound harsh and uneven. I tried a few power conditioners from furman, etc., and they didn't do much. I actually found it was a massive difference when I picked up the PS Audio Duet on a recommendation from a friend. No more issues, no matter what was running. And even when everything was off the difference was still very noticeable, with a much lower noise floor and more powerful dynamics. I think I got it for like $200 or something. Worth every penny.


 
  
 Wow, thanks so much for this.
  
 It only seems to be a problem when the washer/dryer are on, or the light in my room.  I have roommates, and with them running their various devices, it didn't seem to be a problem.  
  
 So as long as I plug my lamp into the hall socket (with the cable snaked under my door) and the washer/dryer are off, it seems to be fine.  During the day I don't need my light, so I probably just have to stop listening if someone is washing their clothes, it doesn't take long.
  
 I will probably still look into getting that PS Audio Duet.


----------



## fjrabon

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'm frankly stunned that Sennheiser insists on remaining in the DAC business. Gumby destroys the HDVD in terms of the DAC section, and I'm sure it destroys the HE-1 DAC as well. Headphones, yes. Amps—if you must. DACs? Go home, Axel Grell, you're drunk.




Sennheiser has a lot of customers who don't go on forums and find a system that brings everything out to the absolute best sound possible. They just want something that they can order all in one place, plug it in and it sounds great.


----------



## FLTWS

coltmrfire said:


> Wow, thanks so much for this.
> 
> It only seems to be a problem when the washer/dryer are on, or the light in my room.  I have roommates, and with them running their various devices, it didn't seem to be a problem.
> 
> ...


 

  You might ask a local dealer (if you have one) to bring over one of their conditioner units that they think will solve the problem. The cheapest one that works is the one you want. If it's just the washer / dryer / light you'll know instantly whether it's going to work for you or not. That's what I did before plunking down $1,800 x 2 voltage regulators for my A/V gear. Is your light on a dimmer switch by chance?


----------



## ColtMrFire

fltws said:


> You might ask a local dealer (if you have one) to bring over one of their conditioner units that they think will solve the problem. The cheapest one that works is the one you want. If it's just the washer / dryer / light you'll know instantly whether it's going to work for you or not. That's what I did before plunking down $1,800 x 2 voltage regulators for my A/V gear. Is your light on a dimmer switch by chance?


 
  
 No, my light is just a switch.  But it's just as bad as the dryer (havent tested the washer yet).  I have a lamp and overhead light.  They both make the sound grating/harsh...subtle but my ears start hurting pretty quickly.


----------



## FLTWS

Hope you can get it solved.


----------



## FLTWS

A question on the “improvements” made to the HD800 to get to the HD800S.
  
 Most posters / reviewers talk about a reduction in the 5-6Khz peak with the addition of what looks like a wafer thin Sorrodge – like donut in the center hole of the “S” model.
  
 Many also note that the bass response is improved, but, at a much higher distortion level that reduces the detailing and clarity in the bass.
  
 What physical/mechanical or electrical changes were made to the HD800 to alter its bass response?
  
 Just curious as an HD800 owner.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Any recommendations on a CD player/transport (with coax out) that would be an upgrade from my crappy, cheap Sony DVD player?  Looking at getting something used, no more than $200 for now.  Thanks.


----------



## lenroot77

coltmrfire said:


> Any recommendations on a CD player/transport (with coax out) that would be an upgrade from my crappy, cheap Sony DVD player?  Looking at getting something used, no more than $200 for now.  Thanks.




I don't think it should matter too much as the player is only reading the disc and sending 0's and 1's to your Dac. At least this is what I have been told in the past.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Right.  But I ask because I've had experiences with computer audio/USB where 1s and 0s weren't just 1s and 0s, and things would change depending on the quality of the cable, etc, at least for me personally.  So I figure some of the more audiophile like CD players might have better builds, components, etc. that would make a SQ difference.  Just curious here.


----------



## jibzilla

bigfatpaulie said:


> Agreed.  The Stratus is also outstanding with LCD's, He1k, Utopia and even HE6's.
> 
> Heck, it is actually wonderful with the Abyss.
> 
> I also don't consider the Pinnacle the 'king' with the HD800.  As excellent as it is, I wholeheartedly dispute that


 
  
 Disagree on the HE1k. Made it sound even softer to me which was not a good thing. Same with lcd-3f. Lcd-X was decent, but not the hd800. Considering Lcd-X an hd800 are less expensive than lcd-3f and He1k I do not think I'm going out on a limb here saying the Stratus is catering to the hd800 and k-1000 which I have not heard.


----------



## fjrabon

fltws said:


> A question on the “improvements” made to the HD800 to get to the HD800S.
> 
> Most posters / reviewers talk about a reduction in the 5-6Khz peak with the addition of what looks like a wafer thin Sorrodge – like donut in the center hole of the “S” model.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm trying to track it down where I read it exactly, but can't remember and nothing is coming up on search (google or on this site).  But going off memory, the donut cone was selectively thickened in certain regions in such a way that increased 2nd harmonic distortion, which has the audible effect of warming up the bass.  This is also why the HD800S measures worse than the HD800 in terms of distortion.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jibzilla said:


> Disagree on the HE1k. Made it sound even softer to me which was not a good thing. Same with lcd-3f. Lcd-X was decent, but not the hd800. Considering Lcd-X an hd800 are less expensive than lcd-3f and He1k I do not think I'm going out on a limb here saying the Stratus is catering to the hd800 and k-1000 which I have not heard.


 
  
 I would.  Now a days it seems like there are at least, if not more Straus + He1k owners than HD800 + Stratus owners here on Head-Fi.


----------



## jibzilla

thenewguy007 said:


> There is a reason for that. $10,000 for a OTL (? or is it a OPT design) amp that doesn't use 2A3, 300b or 45 tubes?
> 
> Even the Eddie Current Studio & DNA Stellaris cost less.


 
  
 And you been building headphone amps for how long?


----------



## FLTWS

fjrabon said:


> I'm trying to track it down where I read it exactly, but can't remember and nothing is coming up on search (google or on this site).  But going off memory, the donut cone was selectively thickened in certain regions in such a way that increased 2nd harmonic distortion, which has the audible effect of warming up the bass.  This is also why the HD800S measures worse than the HD800 in terms of distortion.


 
  
 That makes sense, it does more than just squelch the 5-6Khz peak.


----------



## jibzilla

bigfatpaulie said:


> I would.  Now a days it seems like there are at least, if not more Straus + He1k owners than HD800 + Stratus owners here on Head-Fi.


 
  
 How the heck would you even be able to tell something like that? Is there a poll that I'm not aware of? In either case to each his own.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

jibzilla said:


> How the heck would you even be able to tell something like that? Is there a poll that I'm not aware of? In either case to each his own.




It isn very much a case of to each their own: I agree. 

Well, Stratus owns tend to talk a lot so it is a pretty small pretty close knit group of owners. I certainly don't have an official poll but there are only 50 or so Stratus amps around so I have a pretty good sample size of who uses what.


----------



## Svatopluk

coltmrfire said:


> Any recommendations on a CD player/transport (with coax out) that would be an upgrade from my crappy, cheap Sony DVD player?  Looking at getting something used, no more than $200 for now.  Thanks.


 
 Unlike headphones, the tray mechanism of a CD player can be damaged by children, pets and the wayward hand movements of intoxicated adults so beware buying used unless you can try it out before spending your money.
  Onkyo and Yamaha have entry level dedicated CD players with coax out in the 2 to 3 hundred dollar range so that may be the best route to take. I think the models are (Onkyo C-7030) and (Yamaha CD-5300).


----------



## ColtMrFire

svatopluk said:


> Unlike headphones, the tray mechanism of a CD player can be damaged by children, pets and the wayward hand movements of intoxicated adults so beware buying used unless you can try it out before spending your money.
> Onkyo and Yamaha have entry level dedicated CD players with coax out in the 2 to 3 hundred dollar range so that may be the best route to take. I think the models are (Onkyo C-7030) and (Yamaha CD-5300).


 
  
 Thanks.


----------



## lenroot77

coltmrfire said:


> Right.  But I ask because I've had experiences with computer audio/USB where 1s and 0s weren't just 1s and 0s, and things would change depending on the quality of the cable, etc, at least for me personally.  So I figure some of the more audiophile like CD players might have better builds, components, etc. that would make a SQ difference.  Just curious here.




Respectfully, I'm not quite sure how cable material would impact a 0 or 1. The disc is read and data is sent to Dac to be converted to what we hear. 

Spending 2-3 hundred dollars on a CD player is going to give you better options with iPod interfaces, Dac chips, dedicated headphone circuits, etc. and of course it may look nicer. In my experience it's not going to impact the sound itself. 

Spending that money on an upgraded headphone cable for your hd800 or something to clean your power up may have a larger impact on what you are hearing.


----------



## bearFNF

Higher end CD players Typically (not always though) use better components (laser, drive mechanism, etc) and error correction for reading marginal or damaged disks. 

They typically last longer also. This is my experience over the years with all sorts of different players. As always YMMV.


----------



## x RELIC x

The data transmitted along USB is nothing more than an electrical voltage. There are no magical impervious 0's and 1's. Above a certain voltage threshold _represents_ a 1 and below a certain voltage threshold _represents_ a 0. As the signal is a real world electrical voltage it can absolutely be affected by wire impedance and shielding and can also act as a carrier for noise in the electrical system, which can show up as an unnatural brightness spicing up the sound. The idea that there are magical 0's and 1's floating around is absurd. It's all voltage, current, and gates at the core of the digital world.

Addendum: For optical drives it's real world pulses of light that are converted to an electrical signal. Optical is immune to electrical noise because of the transmition medium, but isn't immune to errors read and so depending on the quality of the drive there could be better or worse results from reading and converting the light pulses. Optical also isn't immune to noise and impedance etc. after it's converted to an electrical signal.

Remember, digital only means sampled data, so the biggest difference between an analogue and a digital electrical signal is one is continuous (analogue) and the other is a sample of the original (digital). It's still real world voltage either way.


----------



## lenroot77

x relic x said:


> The data transmitted along USB is nothing more than an electrical voltage. There are no magical impervious 0's and 1's. Above a certain voltage threshold _represents_ a 1 and below a certain voltage threshold _represents_ a 0. As the signal is a real world electrical voltage it can absolutely be affected by wire impedance and shielding and can also act as a carrier for noise in the electrical system, which can show up as an unnatural brightness spicing up the sound. The idea that there are magical 0's and 1's floating around is absurd. It's all voltage, current, and gates at the core of the digital world.
> 
> Addendum: For optical drives it's real world pulses of light that are converted to an electrical signal. Optical is immune to electrical noise because of the transmition medium, but isn't immune to errors read and so depending on the quality of the drive there could be better or worse results from reading and converting the light pulses.




Ic...so how is coax affected?


----------



## x RELIC x

lenroot77 said:


> Ic...so how is coax affected?




Same thing, electrical voltage down a copper wire with the signal in the core and the ground sheilded with a dielectric in a foil wrap around the dielectric, then the whole cable is insulated in the outer sheath. Still, just an electrical signal not actually magical 0's and 1's


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Coax is ok but AES/EBU is better.


----------



## lenroot77

x relic x said:


> Same thing, electrical voltage down a copper wire with the signal in the core and the ground sheilded with a dielectric in a foil wrap around the dielectric, then the whole cable is insulated in the outer sheath. Still, just an electrical signal not actually magical 0's and 1's




Yes yes... the different voltages represent the " 0's and 1's" but coming from a CD player say with a cable with upsized wire providing less resistance and faster path for the current to travel to the Dac, I'm not understanding how that can alter the sound. Genuinely curious.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I don't know the technical jargon, but I know I've experienced appreciable differences in sound quality when swapping cables, equipment, etc.  It's not a stretch for me to upgrade my CD player.


----------



## fjrabon

can we not have a debate over digital cables on the HD800 thread?  This is something that's more or less forbidden on the appropriate forums, let alone on an only tangentially related thread.  Nobody is going to change anybody's mind when it comes to whether USB cables matter.


----------



## lenroot77

coltmrfire said:


> I don't know the technical jargon, but I know I've experienced appreciable differences in sound quality when swapping cables, equipment, etc.  It's not a stretch for me to upgrade my CD player.




I'm just confused with how it can be affected prior to source; interconnects and headphone cables that's all good. Totally on board with them affecting sound.

I'll just drop it though...waaaay off topic.


----------



## x RELIC x

Apologies for all the detail. I just thought it would help understand how a drier or light switches may affect what was reported to be heard through the HD800, which is resolving enough to hear such differences. Noise injected in to the path is definately heard and the common report is that it gets brighter and fatiguing.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I can't hear the 6khz spike. With classical music, for sure, it doesn't bother me a bit. Owning K1000 has made HD800 veritably warm and wet sounding. I haven't listened to it in a month though, the holidays have given me a chance to travel so it's just been bose and k3003i.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I think I may have found what was wrong.
  
 I had all my cables hanging from metal hooks screwed into the walls because I didn't want them piling up.
  
 At this point I was willing to try anything to get rid of this treble/power problem.  I took the cables off the hooks... and so far, even with the heat on and my light on, my ears don't hurt.  
  
 I have no idea what was going on, possibly the cables were interacting with the metal of the hooks, or the electricity through the wall, I don't know.  But so far I feel alot better.


----------



## Zoom25

Marantz CD5004 had an okay digital out (coax). I am forgetting where it sat compared to my Macbook Pro running Audirvana Plus outputting via USB...
  
 I ultimately much preferred my Bryston BDP-1 outputting to my DAC. It has both coax and AES output. I prefer the AES output, along with most Bryston owners. Transports do matter! My plan back in the day was to grab the cheapest CD player with a coax out and send it to my DAC for CD listening, as I didn't want a computer all the time around me. I figured it's digital and same files right! Couldn't be further from the truth.
  
 For coax, also pay attention to cable length. Look into cable reflection. I know my HD800s and monitors get bright sounding when the coax cable is too short (0.6 m long). That's enough about that...


----------



## ColtMrFire

For schiits and giggles I hooked my HD800 to an old Onkyo receiver I had laying around.
  
 OMG.
  
 I really can't believe how good it sounds.  Big, spacious, dynamic, with a rich, warmish tone...and with none of the horrible glare of the Jotunheim.  Going to keep listening to see how I feel, but Jot might be going up for sale.  I could use the extra cash.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> For schiits and giggles I hooked my HD800 to an old Onkyo receiver I had laying around.
> 
> OMG.
> 
> I really can't believe how good it sounds.  Big, spacious, dynamic, with a rich, warmish tone...and with none of the horrible glare of the Jotunheim.  Going to keep listening to see how I feel, but Jot might be going up for sale.  I could use the extra cash.


 

 yeah, as much as I appreciate what the Jot does, I just never thought it was a good fit with HD800.  Even with a relatively smooth DAC like MiMBy.  Especially if you are running the HD800 without the SDR or EQ, it's just not a great fit.  Glad your old Onkyo sounds good.


----------



## ColtMrFire

fjrabon said:


> yeah, as much as I appreciate what the Jot does, I just never thought it was a good fit with HD800.  Even with a relatively smooth DAC like MiMBy.  Especially if you are running the HD800 without the SDR or EQ, it's just not a great fit.  Glad your old Onkyo sounds good.


 
  
 It's such a huge relief.  Can't believe I didn't do this sooner.


----------



## Fearless1

I honestly do not understand why anyone would not SDR mod the HD800. To my ears, the mod makes an amazing headphone significantly better.


----------



## Ani1000

I would never mod an HD800
Reasons:
1. I would be affraid to damage it. 
2. I belive in the original design and vision of the engineers.


----------



## Fearless1

So be it, but just a quick counter point:

1. It is simple.
2. The engineers incorporated a similar design into the 800S, a version which is sold as improved.
3. I have my friends unmodded pair here for a quick A/B session, you should hear the improvement.


----------



## johnjen

I have been fussing with and modding my 800's for years now.
 They are hearty, robust and built to be rebuilt, if need be.
  
 And I prefer the original 800's to the S's for a variety of reasons, but then those are my preferences.
  
 And a little secret that Sonarworks mentioned…
 The lower the distortion that the HP's have the better their EQ works.
 And it is noteworthy that the 800's generally can have lower distortion at higher SPL's, vs. at lower SPL's, especially in the mids and higher.
  
 Just a passing comment.
  
 JJ


----------



## ColtMrFire

I'd rather find a suitable amp than mod the 800.  My old receiver seemed to have some qualities the Jot lacked, so I am looking in that direction now.


----------



## Yoga

fearless1 said:


> I honestly do not understand why anyone would not SDR mod the HD800. To my ears, the mod makes an amazing headphone significantly better.


 

 Same with Sonarworks. Makes no sense whatsoever. People just get used to the shrillness I suppose and consider it normal :¬)


----------



## ColtMrFire

yoga said:


> Same with Sonarworks. Makes no sense whatsoever. People just get used to the shrillness I suppose and consider it normal :¬)


 
  
 That was a problem with the Jotunheim, but not with my older receiver.  I believe the 800 can be fine if you find the right amp.  But I acknowledge some people are more treble sensitive.  We all should do what suits us and not slam others for ignoring mods or EQ.


----------



## Yoga

coltmrfire said:


> That was a problem with the Jotunheim, but not with my older receiver.  I believe the 800 can be fine if you find the right amp.  But I acknowledge some people are more treble sensitive.  We all should do what suits us and not slam others for ignoring mods or EQ.


 
  
 The H800 are bright, regardless of the amp. They are with my V281.

 There's no slamming, it's more of a disbelief :¬)

 Sonarworks takes the HD800 to far more accurate levels. It's crazy how well they scale. Make no sense that people don't even give it a try out of stubbornness (after saying how realistic they sound - which they don't when stock!).


----------



## ColtMrFire

yoga said:


> The H800 are bright, regardless of the amp. They are with my V281.
> 
> There's no slamming, it's more of a disbelief :¬)
> 
> Sonarworks takes the HD800 to far more accurate levels. It's crazy how well they scale. Make no sense that people don't even give it a try out of stubbornness (after saying how realistic they sound - which they don't when stock!).


 
  
 Some people like a bright signature, bright isn't a bad thing, just depends on preference.  And my old receiver slightly darkens the signature, so it's nice.
  
 I've tried sonarworks, and it was good, but I did not care for the way it seemed to alter the 800, even with reduced wetness levels.  Not everyone is crazy about sonarworks, there is nothing hard to believe about that unless you're attached to the idea that you're right and everyone else is wrong, which is not a healthy way to go about things.


----------



## Fearless1

coltmrfire said:


> That was a problem with the Jotunheim, but not with my older receiver.  I believe the 800 can be fine if you find the right amp.  But I acknowledge some people are more treble sensitive.  We all should do what suits us and not slam others for ignoring mods or EQ.




I have a few amps that pair quite nicely with the HD800, bought specifically for that reason. None do what the SDR mod does in a 5 minute reversible mod. But enjoy your quest.


----------



## Yoga

coltmrfire said:


> Some people like a bright signature, bright isn't a bad thing, just depends on preference.  And my old receiver slightly darkens the signature, so it's nice.
> 
> I've tried sonarworks, and it was good, but I did not care for the way it seemed to alter the 800, even with reduced wetness levels.  Not everyone is crazy about sonarworks, there is nothing hard to believe about that unless you're attached to the idea that you're right and everyone else is wrong, which is not a healthy way to go about things.


 

 I think you'll find I never said there is anything wrong with enjoying a bright sound signature.
  
 It was aimed at the people who will not even try it, and yet state how natural the HD800 is. They may prefer them even more just by trying it. You did try it and you didn't like it; great. Although there is a chance you didn't let the sound sink in and become normal to you. Going for days/weeks of HD800 to an accurate sound will make even the accurate one sound dull in comparison. That's the nature of how we get used to things.
  
 People spend years and $$$ looking for an amp to compliment the HD800. SWR3/EQ can accomplish most of that with the amp you have. Simple as that really. 
  
 Enjoy your search!


----------



## ColtMrFire

yoga said:


> I think you'll find I never said there is anything wrong with enjoying a bright sound signature.
> 
> It was aimed at the people who will not even try it, and yet state how natural the HD800 is. They may prefer them even more just by trying it. You did try it and you didn't like it; great. Although there is a chance you didn't let the sound sink in and become normal to you. Going for days/weeks of HD800 to an accurate sound will make even the accurate one sound dull in comparison. That's the nature of how we get used to things.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I remember trying sonarworks the first time with my HD558, and the improvement was immediate and obvious and I kept it.  This time around it didn't seem to be an improvement necessarily, but a lessening of what made me like the 800 in the first place, so it's not a matter of getting used to it for me.  
  
 I readily acknowledge things change (for all of us), so I may try it again when I get a Gumby or Yggy.


----------



## ColtMrFire

fearless1 said:


> I have a few amps that pair quite nicely with the HD800, bought specifically for that reason. None do what the SDR mod does in a 5 minute reversible mod.


 
  
 The point of the SDR mod is to tame the treble peak and bring up the mids.  Now that I no longer have a problem with the peak and the mids have come up since switching out receivers, it wouldn't make sense for me to apply it in this case.


----------



## Fearless1

coltmrfire said:


> The point of the SDR mod is to tame the treble peak and bring up the mids.  Now that I no longer have a problem with the peak and the mids have come up since switching out receivers, it wouldn't make sense for me to apply it in this case.




Like I said good luck with your quest. When you do try the mod, come back and thank me. No need to reply.


----------



## ColtMrFire

fearless1 said:


> Like I said good luck with your quest. When you do try the mod, come back and thank me. No need to reply.


 
  
 If, not when.


----------



## Yoga

coltmrfire said:


> I remember trying sonarworks the first time with my HD558, and the improvement was immediate and obvious and I kept it.  This time around it didn't seem to be an improvement necessarily, but a lessening of what made me like the 800 in the first place, so it's not a matter of getting used to it for me.
> 
> I readily acknowledge things change (for all of us), so I may try it again when I get a Gumby or Yggy.


 
  
 I like the idea of the Yggy with he HD800. If not for my studio (I'll be using a monitor controller with in-built DA), I'd be auditing that again.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Anyone noticed a difference changing the pads out for new ones?  My pads are getting worn.


----------



## ColtMrFire

lugbug1 said:


> Yeah the problem with all vintage amps is that because they are old the sound can vary dramatically between the same models depending on the condition inside. Dying capacitors can really dull the sound compared to an amp that hasn't had much use for instance. Always clean the pots and switches with contact cleaner as there will be a build-up of oxides if it hasn't been serviced in a long while, this can make a dramatic difference too as the signal travels through all pots and switches.


 
  
 I have an old Onkyo receiver, how would I go about cleaning the pots/switches... is it simple or hard?  I want to see if I can improve the sound.


----------



## Rozenberg

coltmrfire said:


> Anyone noticed a difference changing the pads out for new ones?  My pads are getting worn.


 
 Nope, no difference other than being more comfy.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> The point of the SDR mod is to tame the treble peak and bring up the mids.  Now that I no longer have a problem with the peak and the mids have come up since switching out receivers, it wouldn't make sense for me to apply it in this case.


 

 wait, your reciever is so "unneutral" that it rolled off treble and brought the mids up?  I'm a bit confused here, if that's what you *really* mean.  I'll readily acknowledge the Jot is "edgy" but that isn't strictly speaking a frequency response issue, it's more of a combination of impulse response and having more harmonic distortion in the 4th and 5th harmonic than the 2nd or 3rd.  And any amp that changes the sound the amount that you seemingly state above is simply a poor quality amp, no ifs, ands, or buts.  Now that being said, I suspect this is more attributing distortion profiles to frequency response and also exaggerating the differences, which is a thing people do on head-fi a lot.  But to be clear, frequency response tracks the fundamental.  No even moderately decent amp, certainly no amp worthy of the HD800, actually "brings up the mids" in the sense of measurable frequency response.  It it does, it's simply not a good amp (or has output impedance that's WAY too high, but that would bring up the mid-bass, not the mids).  If it is actually rolling of 6kHz, then, again, that's just a bad amp.  

 And that's to all say, the SDR mod and EQ don't do the same things as what changing amplification will do.  the SDR mod and EQ (as fancy as sonarworks is, ultimately it is effectively just an incredibly precise, bespoke EQ tool) directly impact the frequency response.  The SDR mod by acoustically attenuating frequencies that the HD800's resonance boosts (contrary to what many on here have said, the SDR mod DOES NOT eliminate the resonance to begin with, it's still there, the SDR mod, just like EQ, just reduces the targeted frequencies.  Heimholtz resonators can't reduce resonances characteristic of the enclosure, only damping or changing the structure of the device could impact the resonance).  Changing amplification is harder to characterize, because it depends on the amp.  But, what an amp shouldn't do, what they are in fact specifically designed not to do, is precisely the thing the SDR mod and EQ do: change the frequency response of the headphone.  

 That isn't to criticize your decision that with your receiver you don't feel a need for SDR or SonarWorks, by all means, I am rather glad you found some good synergy in a piece of equipment you didn't even have to pay more for.  I also don't think "everybody needs one of these, and if they don't they're insane." If you have an issue with the HD800's frequency response, by all means try one of these two tools to help you better enjoy the HD800's insanely good pure technical performance, if you don't have any issue with the HD800's frequency response, then by all means feel free not to worry about it.  My aim, is to clear up any confusion that the SDR mod and/or EQ do similar things as "finding the right amp" for other people who may be reading; they do not, even a little, do the same thing.


----------



## Fearless1

coltmrfire said:


> I have an old Onkyo receiver, how would I go about cleaning the pots/switches... is it simple or hard?  I want to see if I can improve the sound.




http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/the-idiots-guide-to-using-deoxit-revisited.207005/


----------



## ColtMrFire

fjrabon said:


> wait, your reciever is so "unneutral" that it rolled off treble and brought the mids up?  I'm a bit confused here, if that's what you *really* mean.  I'll readily acknowledge the Jot is "edgy" but that isn't strictly speaking a frequency response issue, it's more of a combination of impulse response and having more harmonic distortion in the 4th and 5th harmonic than the 2nd or 3rd.  And any amp that changes the sound the amount that you seemingly state above is simply a poor quality amp, no ifs, ands, or buts.  Now that being said, I suspect this is more attributing distortion profiles to frequency response and also exaggerating the differences, which is a thing people do on head-fi a lot.  But to be clear, frequency response tracks the fundamental.  No even moderately decent amp, certainly no amp worthy of the HD800, actually "brings up the mids" in the sense of measurable frequency response.  It it does, it's simply not a good amp (or has output impedance that's WAY too high, but that would bring up the mid-bass, not the mids).  If it is actually rolling of 6kHz, then, again, that's just a bad amp.
> 
> And that's to all say, the SDR mod and EQ don't do the same things as what changing amplification will do.  the SDR mod and EQ (as fancy as sonarworks is, ultimately it is effectively just an incredibly precise, bespoke EQ tool) directly impact the frequency response.  The SDR mod by acoustically attenuating frequencies that the HD800's resonance boosts (contrary to what many on here have said, the SDR mod DOES NOT eliminate the resonance to begin with, it's still there, the SDR mod, just like EQ, just reduces the targeted frequencies.  Heimholtz resonators can't reduce resonances characteristic of the enclosure, only damping or changing the structure of the device could impact the resonance).  Changing amplification is harder to characterize, because it depends on the amp.  But, what an amp shouldn't do, what they are in fact specifically designed not to do, is precisely the thing the SDR mod and EQ do: change the frequency response of the headphone.
> 
> That isn't to criticize your decision that with your receiver you don't feel a need for SDR or SonarWorks, by all means, I am rather glad you found some good synergy in a piece of equipment you didn't even have to pay more for.  I also don't think "everybody needs one of these, and if they don't they're insane." If you have an issue with the HD800's frequency response, by all means try one of these two tools to help you better enjoy the HD800's insanely good pure technical performance, if you don't have any issue with the HD800's frequency response, then by all means feel free not to worry about it.  My aim, is to clear up any confusion that the SDR mod and/or EQ do similar things as "finding the right amp" for other people who may be reading; they do not, even a little, do the same thing.


 
  
 So what you're saying is if someone says an amp makes the midrange of the 800 more prominent, or brings up the midbass/bass, reduces treble, etc, they have a "bad amp"?  Because I hear alot of people saying things like that when they talk about various amps.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> So what you're saying is if someone says an amp makes the midrange of the 800 more prominent, or brings up the midbass/bass, reduces treble, etc, they have a "bad amp"?  Because I hear alot of people saying things like that when they talk about various amps.


 

 yes, a lot of people don't understand how to tell the difference between changes in impulse response and harmonic distortion profiles and actual changes to the fundamental's frequency response. A lot of people are also victims of expectations bias and the placebo effect. If an amp has more than about a decibel of "non-neutrality" between 30Hz and 15kHz, it's, quite simply, a God awfully terrible design.  Even just decent amps, not exotic, super high-end stuff, are effectively perfectly flat from 20Hz-20kHz.  To put this into perspective, the Sonarworks adjustment to the HD800 can swing things as much as 12dB in both directions, depending on your settings.
  
 Or, perhaps if I want to be more charitable, those people are well aware of the difference, but are more aiming to describe how it might be roughly perceived, without going into any detail, at the expense of a huge amount of confusion for what's actually going on.
  
 But look at a frequency response measurement of any even decent amp, tube or solid state, and it won't look noticeably different from a near perfectly flat line.  That's the whole point of amps.  
  
 you ever wonder why nobody does frequency response graphs showing the different signatures of different amps, like we have for headphones?  Like nobody says "here is how the HD800 measures through my Jot and here is how it measures through my Taurus."  It's because they'd all look functionally identical.


----------



## ColtMrFire

fjrabon said:


> yes, a lot of people don't understand how to tell the difference between changes in impulse response and harmonic distortion profiles and actual changes to the fundamental's frequency response. A lot of people are also victims of expectations bias and the placebo effect. If an amp has more than about a decibel of "non-neutrality" between 30Hz and 15kHz, it's, quite simply, a poor design.  TO put this into perspective, the Sonarworks adjustment to the HD800 can swing things as much as 12dB in both directions, depending on your settings.
> 
> Or, perhaps if I want to be more charitable, those people are well aware of the difference, but are more aiming to describe how it might be roughly perceived, without going into any detail, at the expense of a huge amount of confusion for what's actually going on.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Alot of people seem to be enjoying bad amps then.  Poor saps.
  
 I'll leave it to you to figure if I'm being sarcastic or not.


----------



## JaZZ

A lot of people saying something doesn't necessarily make it true. _fjrabon_ is right: An amplifier shouldn't and can't increase or decrease certain frequency bands. If the listening impression is like it, the cause is (ear-friendly) harmonic distortion. It's common practice on Head-Fi to shape the sound of headphones by using specific amps for specific headphones. That's a crude approach, you need different amps for different headphones to really live it. And it doesn't really correct the headphones' acoustic flaws, it just masks them by means of a reduction of transparency. That may sound pleasing to the ears, but it's the opposite of high fidelity. And a poor substitute for a really flat frequency response if that's what you're after. I'm sure once you hear the HD 800 perfectly equalized (e.g. with SonarWorks) and really take the time to get used to the new signature, it will be hard to go back to the colored version. In my book the amplifier approach is an expensive and unflexible alternative for people who don't want to occupy themselves with fixing the tonal flaws at their source.
  
 Just one thing I'd like to make clear: taming a resonance by decreasing the respective frequency area also has a beneficial effect on impulse response. The inverted amplitude response comes with inverted phase response, so if you manage to perfectly eliminate the peak in the amplitude response, you also get a flat phase response and a perfect transient response. Just for the record: No amp can do this.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> Alot of people seem to be enjoying bad amps then.  Poor saps.
> 
> I'll leave it to you to figure if I'm being sarcastic or not.


 

 here's the frequency response of a relatively decent headphone amp, as you'll notice, its maximum variation from flat in the range of human hearing is about .01dB, roughly the sound of a pin dropping 1000 feet away from you.  So, now, the ball is whoever's court if they want to believe that amps impact fundamental frequency response, simply find a single measurement of what anybody here would consider a "good" amp that shows anything even near 1dB of variance.


----------



## fjrabon

jazz said:


> A lot of people saying something doesn't necessarily make it true. _fjrabon_ is right: An amplifier shouldn't and can't increase or decrease certain frequency bands. If the listening impression is like it, the cause is (ear-friendly) harmonic distortion. It's common practice on Head-Fi to shape the sound of headphones by using specific amps for specific headphones. That's a crude approach, you need different amps for different headphones to really live it. And it doesn't really correct the headphones' acoustic flaws, it just masks them by means of a reduction of transparency. That may sound pleasing to the ears, but it's the opposite of high fidelity. And a poor substitute for a really flat frequency response if that's what you're after. I'm sure once you hear the HD 800 perfectly equalized (e.g. with SonarWorks) and really take the time to get used to the new signature, it will be hard to go back to the colored version. In my book the amplifier approach is an expensive and unflexible alternative for people who don't want to occupy themselves with fixing the tonal flaws at their source.
> 
> Just one thing I'd like to make clear: taming a resonance by decreasing the respective frequency area also has a beneficial effect on impulse response. The inverted amplitude response comes with inverted phase response, so if you manage to perfectly eliminate the peak in the amplitude response, you also get a flat phase response and a perfect transient response. Just for the record: No amp can do this.


 

 before somebody jumps in, we should throw out, again, the one caveat for how an amp can, sometimes, change frequency response: if its output impedance is WAAAAAAYYYYY too high and the headphone has a non-flat impedance curve.  But that's like the world's stupidest version of EQing, to purposefully go for that.  It introduces a host of other issues.  But people sometimes do it, because they want to EQ, but they don't want to use EQ to EQ.  But really this only happens significantly if you use an OTL tube amp with multiple BA IEMs.  Other times the effect is very small (1-3dB).


----------



## JaZZ

True – as you already mentioned earlier. Also, it's not a fixed frequency band that's affected, it's defined by the headphone's impedance response.


----------



## fjrabon

jazz said:


> True – as you already mentioned earlier. Also, it's not a fixed frequency band that's affected, it's defined by the headphone's impedance response.


 

 right, I just knew though, if we didn't super mention that multiple times, somebody would jump in with "nuh uh, you obviously don't understand what running my 200 ohm amp through HD600s will do for the HD600's bass."


----------



## ColtMrFire

I'm going to to do a thorough job of cleaning my Onkyo to get it in the best shape, and look into hearing some other vintage receivers with the 800, as I've heard good things about the older stuff.  It was quite a revelation to hear the difference between a mid priced very good heaphone amp and piece of junk (relatively speaking) receiver I had laying around.  Probably doesn't measure as well, but I don't listen to measurements, I listen to music.
  
 My laptop isn't powerful enough for me to surf the net and listen to music at the same time without being sluggish, so right now I'm indulging in the large number of CDs I have.  Did not care for sonarworks enough for me to deal with PC audio right now.  Gumby and Yggy are supposed to have better USB implementations than Modi MB too, so that option may open up in the future.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> I'm going to to do a thorough job of cleaning my Onkyo to get it in the best shape, and look into hearing some other vintage receivers with the 800, as I've heard good things about the older stuff.  It was quite a revelation to hear the difference between a mid priced very good heaphone amp and piece of junk (relatively speaking) receiver I had laying around.  Probably doesn't measure as well, but I don't listen to measurements, I listen to music.
> 
> My laptop isn't powerful enough for me to surf the net and listen to music at the same time without being sluggish, so right now I'm indulging in the large number of CDs I have.  Did not care for sonarworks enough for me to deal with PC audio right now.  Gumby and Yggy are supposed to have better USB implementations than Modi MB too, so that option may open up in the future.


 

 again, glad you're finding a path that is opening up some avenues for you.  Old receivers can be great if properly cared for.  They can eventually be a PITA to find parts for when things start dying inside.  and unfortunately with old receivers, many of the parts die a very slow death of incrementally degrading the sound by very small amounts that add up over time, such that you never notice how bad the sound has gotten until you plug into something else, and it blows your mind in comparison to your internally dying receiver.  It's like the old frog in boiling water metaphor.  But when those old receivers have all their parts in top condition and clean, they can really sing. 

 My intention was never to criticize your equipment choice, or your decision not to use the SDR or Sonarworks (or any other form of EQ).  But to clear up a misconception that amps directly impact frequency response to any real degree.


----------



## ColtMrFire

fjrabon said:


> My intention was never to criticize your equipment choice, or your decision not to use the SDR or Sonarworks (or any other form of EQ).  But to clear up a misconception that amps directly impact frequency response to any real degree.


 
  
 Yes, I realize that.  Good to clear up misconceptions. 
  
 But some people seem to get offended if you dare question the all powerful gods of sonarworks and SDR mod, and you are painted as delusional and not understanding, and you will eventually come around, etc etc.  It can be like a religion in these kinds of circles and not the most inviting, and frankly a little insulting.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> Yes, I realize that.  Good to clear up misconceptions.
> 
> But some people seem to get offended if you dare question the all powerful gods of sonarworks and SDR mod, and you are painted as delusional and not understanding, and you will eventually come around, etc etc.  It can be like a religion in these kinds of circles and not the most inviting, and frankly a little insulting.


 

 yeah, I get that.  I think they're just really excited about something that, for them, totally changed the game, and they just want everybody else to be as happy with it as they are.  That's how I interpret it anyway.


----------



## ColtMrFire

fjrabon said:


> yeah, I get that.  I think they're just really excited about something that, for them, totally changed the game, and they just want everybody else to be as happy with it as they are.  That's how I interpret it anyway.


 
  
 Yes, psychologically that's the reason.  The terrible flip side is, when people are happy with something, they automatically seem to fear anything that goes against it/question it/deny it, etc... because they themselves are probably questioning it subconsciously to one degree or another and want it constantly validated.  I'm continually fascinated (and frustrated) with the human mind.  Mind you, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone specifically just making a general observation.  We can all fall into these traps sometimes.


----------



## MickeyVee

coltmrfire said:


> Right.  But I ask because I've had experiences with computer audio/USB where 1s and 0s weren't just 1s and 0s, and things would change depending on the quality of the cable, etc, at least for me personally.  So I figure some of the more audiophile like CD players might have better builds, components, etc. that would make a SQ difference.  Just curious here.


 

 Well.. I had the Bel Canto player feeding my McIntosh via Digital XLR and could not hear a difference between the original CD and uncompressed rips. Ended up selling the Bel Canto. 
 Given that, I may get the new Oppo for my main AV system and move my BDP83 into my office so I can take advantage of the SACDs and DVD Audio discs I have.


----------



## 13713

Yeah there is a lot of really amazing stuff in the vintage world. As said before just keep in mind that a lot of gear even in the greatest of shape needs to be cleaned and checked. Just find some diagrams on the model you have online and do some research and you can get it back to almost new.
  
 I only use my HD800 unmodified on the V281. I love the sound but I know it's not everyone's cup of tea.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Sonarworks vs SDR. Which is better and why?


----------



## Fearless1

coltmrfire said:


> Yes, I realize that.  Good to clear up misconceptions.
> 
> But some people seem to get offended if you dare question the all powerful gods of sonarworks and SDR mod, and you are painted as delusional and not understanding, and you will eventually come around, etc etc.  It can be like a religion in these kinds of circles and not the most inviting, and frankly a little insulting.




Yet you report everyday about some lamp cord you moved or USB you cleaned that drastically changed the sound of your equipment, no one finds that insulting, that's the purpose of the thread to discuss.


----------



## ColtMrFire

fearless1 said:


> Yet you report everyday about some lamp cord you moved or USB you cleaned that drastically changed the sound of your equipment, no one finds that insulting, that's the purpose of the thread to discuss.




The difference being I'm not trying to convince anyone to move a lamp cord.


----------



## raybone0566

The sdr mod cost what 10$, who wouldn't at least try it. That mod totally changed how I felt about the 800. How many things in this hobby can be had for 10.00 that are that significant


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> Sonarworks vs SDR. Which is better and why?


 

 Neither one is "better" they attempt to solve a similar problem in two different ways, that each have their own strength.  
  
 SonarWorks addresses the full frequency range of the HD800, while the SDR addresses a narrow band of the frequency range.  This is neither a pro-nor a con.  If you have other issues with the HD800 other than the 6kHz peak, then you would probably prefer SonarWorks.  However, for most people the main, by far biggest offender is the 6kHz peak, and some may even want to ONLY address that, without messing with the rest of the frequency range.  While you can shape the sound somewhat with Sonarworks, you can't completely "turn it off" for portions of the frequency spectrum.  
  
 SonarWorks is push button, but computer only (well, I think they're working on a phone app, but by computer only I mean computer/phone).  Want to use SonarWorks with a vinyl rig?  Well, I supposed you could rip your vinyl to FLAC and then use it that way, but vinyl people don't like that.  Want to use sonarworks on your friend's rig?  Well, you better hope either they have it, or that you can easily connect your own laptop.  The flip-side here is that sonarworks can be turned on and off with the push of the button, and even adjusted for dry/wet, tilt, etc.  SDR is just one thing, with one singular sound, and while removable, obviously taking it on and off isn't something you want to do frequently.  Sonarworks being software is both a pro, and a con, dependent on your intended usage.  
  
 Sonarworks requires companion software to get it into your system chain.
  
 SDR will eventually degrade over time.  Nobody really knows how long that is, since the mod is new, but at some point it will start to break down a bit, and could at that point start negatively impacting the sound (or just becoming less good at what it does).  People have seen this with the Annax mod, where after a year or so, it degrades and becomes a less effective damper, and actually starts to make the HD800 sound worse than without it at all.  
  
 I am always shocked at how well the SDR was tuned.  Credit to Sorrodje there.  It's quite stunning how precise he was in his formulation of it.  That being said, it's not as precise as simply measuring the output to the hundredth of a decibel and then inverting it to come out as perfectly flat.  
  
 SonarWorks works with other headphones.
  
 SonarWorks can do cool stuff like mimic the fundamental frequency response of other headphones and speakers.  And can also be adjusted for bass boost and tilt.  It's just more robust and has more options.
  
 Ultimately they're both great.  My advice is typically if you do substantial listening outside of a computer (vinyl, CD, DVD, movies on an entertainment center, etc) then just get a SDR.  If you do most of your listening on a computer get SonarWorks.  If you are fairly split, getting a SDR and then having it individually measured and calibrated by SonarWorks is an option.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> The difference being I'm not trying to convince anyone to move a lamp cord.


 

 you absolutely went through a phase of trying to convince everybody that coax was wildly superior to USB and that they were willfully killing their audio quality if they even thought about USB.


----------



## Fearless1

Yeah I was here for that journey as well.


----------



## ColtMrFire

fjrabon said:


> you absolutely went through a phase of trying to convince everybody that coax was wildly superior to USB and that they were willfully killing their audio quality if they even thought about USB.




No, not true. I said the Mimby measured better through coax than usb and sounded better in my setup. I even went out of my way to say I was not slamming usb and would try it again when I got the Gumby or Yggy. I was specifically talking about Mimby and my own experience.

But thanks for reporting the facts.


----------



## Thenewguy007

coltmrfire said:


> Anyone noticed a difference changing the pads out for new ones?  My pads are getting worn.



So soon?

How long have you had the HD800?


----------



## ColtMrFire

thenewguy007 said:


> So soon?
> 
> How long have you had the HD800?




Got them used about a month ago. Pads were kind of worn but not bad.


----------



## Fearless1

fjrabon said:


> I am always shocked at how well the SDR was tuned.  Credit to Sorrodje there.  It's quite stunning how precise he was in his formulation of it.  That being said, it's not as precise as simply measuring the output to the hundredth of a decibel and then inverting it to come out as perfectly flat.




I give him a ton of credit. The SDR mod made me rediscover the HD800.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

coltmrfire said:


> Sonarworks vs SDR. Which is better and why?


 
  
 It seems like you are going to get different opinions of which is better.  Why not try both out for yourself?  The SDR mod is cheap and 100% reversible.  Sonarworks has a free 21 day trial.  
  
 You be the judge.


----------



## 13713

coltmrfire said:


> Sonarworks vs SDR. Which is better and why?




Given that you said you don't listen to audio off a computer often then you already answered the question.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Just trying to gauge everyone's opinions on the merits of both. Thanks to those who answered.


----------



## JaZZ

coltmrfire said:


> Sonarworks vs SDR. Which is better and why?


 
  
 I haven't tried the SD resonator, but can reproduce its effect with taming the 6 kHz band accordingly. The SD resonator (just as Sennheiser's counterpart in the HD 800 S) is an acoustic equalizer with virtually the same effect as a one-band equalizer: It creates a resonance and mixes it with inverted phase to the original sound, thus cancelling some of the tones around the tuning frequency. In practice there's a small difference that I can only judge from a theoretical perspective: Since the SD resonator blocks the center hole of the original driver, it will cause a minor dose of additional reflections within the ear cups.
  
 I think the mitigation of the 6 kHz hump removes the HD 800's most striking and irritating flaw, so many people will be satisfied with this solution. But after a closer look the frequency response allows (or calls, depending on the standpoint) for some more corrections. So if you want the full benefit from equalizing instead of one specific frequency band, there's no reason to renounce it. Much better low-frequency extension alone may be a tempting argument for many. In theory a fully linearized HD 800 sound is preferrable to one only linearized at a certain frequency region. After all I can confirm that to my ears the mere 6 kHz equalization can't compete with the full package.


----------



## lenroot77

coltmrfire said:


> No, not true. I said the Mimby measured better through coax than usb and sounded better in my setup. I even went out of my way to say I was not slamming usb and would try it again when I got the Gumby or Yggy. I was specifically talking about Mimby and my own experience.
> 
> But thanks for reporting the facts.




Didn't you clean your USB cable and it improved?
How did you measure the difference?


----------



## ColtMrFire

lenroot77 said:


> Didn't you clean your USB cable and it improved?
> How did you measure the difference?


 
  
 It improved but still wasn't up to Coax.  I A/B'd using the same audio from FLAC and then on CD, back and forth many times.  The biggest takeaway was coax had _slightly_ more air and realism for me, it was noticeable.  I'd probably need a Regen or Wyrd to take the USB further but don't have extra funds to allocate to audio at the moment.  But those merely clean up the USB from the computer, they don't make USB measure better through the Mimby.  But I might do some experimenting if funds allow later.  I may also consider a USB to coax converter, but I'm sure those vary wildly in quality and you probably have to spend more to get the best results, which defeats the purpose of buying a $250 DAC in the first place... may as well put the money toward the Gumby.


----------



## johnjen

coltmrfire said:


> snip





> But those merely clean up the USB from the computer, they don't make USB measure better through the Mimby.  But I might do some experimenting if funds allow later.  I may also consider a USB to coax converter, but I'm sure those vary wildly in quality and you probably have to spend more to get the best results, which defeats the purpose of buying a $250 DAC in the first place... may as well put the money toward the Gumby.


 
 One of the most astonishing things we have recently learned is the importance of the digital delivery system from source to dac.
  
 In fact recently the opinion I have repeatedly heard says, that we haven't heard what dacs are really capable of, especially older dacs because the digital audio signal path has been such a limitation.
  
 Unfortunately these latest solutions are fairly expensive but the price is coming down, and some are 'complicated', as in way more involved than merely plugging in a cable or 2.
  
 But the results are astonishing, especially on well tweaked systems that are resolving enough to be able to hear resolution shifts and changes, including the audible perception capabilities between the ears.
  
 Even my 2-Wyrd USB feed was a marked step up from just a single Wyrd, but I also changed the USB cables a bit as well.
 IOW upgrading the digital pathway seems to result in SQ improvements, just about anywhere it is applied.
  
 And I realize $400 is a lot to pay for a 'box' that acts just like a wire with different ends on it, but that is the reality that keeps surfacing with those who venture down this avenue.
 And you still need to plugin cables to that 'box'…
  
 But this aspect of the digital audio system is as important as the dac itself in terms of overall SQ.
  
 Said another way, you really haven't heard what your dac (regardless of which dac you own) is capable of until you are able to feed it properly.
  
 So, from a bits are bits POV, this doesn't make much sense,
 until you hear it,
 then the logical rationalizations just fall away as you get sucked even deeper into the music.
  
 Which is what my focus and my bias is all about, getting sucked even deeper into the music.
  
 JJ
 ps this isn't by any means, meant to be 'aimed at' you *ColtMrFire,* but is aimed at a larger audience…
  
 We are living in interesting times in Audio, indeed.


----------



## YungFrieza

How would this sound with a Modi Multibit and a Little Dot Mk.II? This is the setup I think I'm going to go for.


----------



## Sorrodje

For me, things are quite simple. I had the HD800, bought the HD800 S , found the FR was better on the S and a friend of me showed how to remove ( and put back) the mesh. Then began the work to make something efficient, easy to DIY and easy to produce that always performs the same. I think the Superdupont Resonator (SDR) is an interesting option for HD800 owners when they want to make it perform closer to what HD800s does but without the bass distorsion and the bigger price.  That's it.  
  
 It does not replace eq or amping choice or whatever other things we can work with depending on our tastes/choices/preferences. 
  
 I'm using a computer based solution but both my Laptop and my Server are Linux powered . No plugins for me so I would need to buy a hardware eq and build my own equalization profile. Maybe i'll do that later but for now I'm a happy camper with my modded HD800 and I'm too lazy. It's still a project I'd like to work on though. I'd prefer to really use my ears and my mic to do the job instead of buying an already made profile like Sonarworks. I was interested by the Kameleon from Garage1217 as well but their EQ choice wouldn't probably be mine.  
  
 I still think amp synergy is not the same quest than FR related tweaks (mods,EQ). I don't choose my amps to fix the FR but I still think some amplifier makes the headphones sound better than a few other.  I think a HD800 ( Stock , modded , EQed , recabled or whatever) won'"t sound the same off a GSX mkII or a DNA Stratus. or an AudioGD HE-9 . Measured FR , Distorsion, CSD and whatever I'm used to measure would probably be the same though but (to my ears at least) amps make a difference on the perceived sound.  I'm still questionning myself about that fact because the more I learn , the less I know how to correlate all measurements and subjective impressions. I try to be cautious with both and stay open minded but the more i read and take measurements the more it opens new questions. It's interesting imo.


----------



## FLTWS

sorrodje said:


> For me, things are quite simple. I had the HD800, bought the HD800 S , found the FR was better on the S and a friend of me showed how to remove ( and put back) the mesh. Then began the work to make something efficient, easy to DIY and easy to produce that always performs the same. I think the Superdupont Resonator (SDR) is an interesting option for HD800 owners when they want to make it perform closer to what HD800s does but without the bass distorsion and the bigger price.  That's it.
> 
> It does not replace eq or amping choice or whatever other things we can work with depending on our tastes/choices/preferences.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Correlating measurements and subjective impressions has been a conundrum since I got into this hobby in 1970. It doesn't appear we're any closer to understanding the what, the why, and the how, today than back then.


----------



## ColtMrFire

johnjen said:


> One of the most astonishing things we have recently learned is the importance of the digital delivery system from source to dac.
> 
> In fact recently the opinion I have repeatedly heard says, that we haven't heard what dacs are really capable of, especially older dacs because the digital audio signal path has been such a limitation.
> 
> ...




I have also observed similar findings on my end as well.


----------



## fjrabon

sorrodje said:


> For me, things are quite simple. I had the HD800, bought the HD800 S , found the FR was better on the S and a friend of me showed how to remove ( and put back) the mesh. Then began the work to make something efficient, easy to DIY and easy to produce that always performs the same. I think the Superdupont Resonator (SDR) is an interesting option for HD800 owners when they want to make it perform closer to what HD800s does but without the bass distorsion and the bigger price.  That's it.
> 
> It does not replace eq or amping choice or whatever other things we can work with depending on our tastes/choices/preferences.
> 
> ...




THD measurements definitely change from amp to amp, both in amount and type. That will certainly shape the sound in several ways. Impulse response can certainly be impacted by an amp. That too can have a fairly major influence on presentation. It's just that for whatever reason, people on here always say the frequency response is changed, which is the only thing an amp *won't* do. 

Is this all just an academic pissing contest? Why does it matter how and why something works when the ear test is the ultimate arbiter? Who cares if something that's really because of impulse response is perceived as though it was due to frequency response? Who cares if people often confuse extra 4th harmonic distortion with being "brighter"? I honestly wouldn't think any of this confusion mattered outside of curiosity but when I first started to gain a better understating of these principles was when I started being able to build my system in a much more precise way. Much less blind trial and error was required. 

Understanding these principals was what allowed me to understand why the HD800 is the ultimately scalable starting point I wanted. They then informed what I wanted to look for in an amp and finally how to mostly fix the few flaws I felt remained.


----------



## JaZZ

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote: 





sorrodje said:


> For me, things are quite simple. I had the HD800, bought the HD800 S , found the FR was better on the S and a friend of me showed how to remove ( and put back) the mesh. Then began the work to make something efficient, easy to DIY and easy to produce that always performs the same. I think the Superdupont Resonator (SDR) is an interesting option for HD800 owners when they want to make it perform closer to what HD800s does but without the bass distorsion and the bigger price.  That's it.
> 
> It does not replace eq or amping choice or whatever other things we can work with depending on our tastes/choices/preferences.
> 
> ...





 
  
 Sorrodje, just in case, in no way did I want to put your SD resonator down, quite the opposite: It is a fine tool for bringing the HD 800 to HD 800 S level when it comes to the 6 kHz coloration, and even allows to renounce the latter's low-frequency distortion – for people who for one reason or the other aren't into equalizing. Just like the Sennheiser officials pointed out during the presentation of the «S» model. And I don't dispute that amps matter nonetheless, and a lot for that matter. However, equalizing allows you to chose the most neutral and transparent amp you can get, as it largely frees you from the dependency on synergetic effects.


----------



## Sorrodje

@jazz : I never felt at any point you wanted to put down the mod . No worry. Same here for me , I fully agree with the fact EQ is the likely the better tool to adjust FR . I just know it's not for me now for different reasons but Using EQ definitely makes sense in my book whereas searching warm gooey amplifiers to tame down the HD800 is a wrong path imo. Better ( in the sense of "more rationnal" )  option is to put 300$ in a HD650 and associate a good amplifier that makes the HD650 shines at its best. 
  
 About amps. I owned and heard a few amplifier that all claimed to be  neutral and transparent  and to my ears they didn't sound the same.  Meier Audio Corda Jazz and Classic, O2, Krell KSA5 , GXS mkII , Chord Hugo from what I can recall. I could live happily with some of them whereas i couldn"t with some others. You won't see me advice those I loved and **** on those I disliked. I just can say " My experience is "this" , try by yourself and make your own opinion" .  I bought my HD800 in 2013 , compared it several contenders , associated it wih several amps and dacs , almost sold it twice , hated it , loved it , modded it ( Semi Anax and now SDR) let it travel during weeks and monthes to see if I would like it as much after a long time without it... and this damn headphone is still my fav' and I know the mu fav recipe to cook it to make it sound right to my ears even if those choice are completely different from another head-fier.  .
  
 @fjrabon, I know amplifiers measure differently but between a good SS design anfd a good Tube design , if we take distorsion as example we all know that we're talking difference between 0,0005% THD agains 0,05 % THD ( I'm too lazy to find sources so I talk from what I remember from Jason Stoddard explained about Schiit amps a few month ago) ... in my book  this should be far beyong audibility capabilitie.  That's why I'm following the work a few hobbyists are doing but will all caution I'm capable of.


----------



## fjrabon

sorrodje said:


> @fjrabon, I know amplifiers measure differently but between a good SS design anfd a good Tube design , if we take distorsion as example we all know that we're talking difference between 0,0005% THD agains 0,05 % THD ( I'm too lazy to find sources so I talk from what I remember from Jason Stoddard explained about Schiit amps a few month ago) ... in my book  this should be far beyong audibility capabilitie.  That's why I'm following the work a few hobbyists are doing but will all caution I'm capable of.


 
 One issue is that not all THD is created equal.  Humans seem to be much more sensitive to higher order distortion than lower order distortion.  This is why tube amps don't necessarily sound like they have worse distortion, even though they measure that way.  I think a big negative in understanding amp quality over the last 20 years has been in focusing on THD as a single measure.  A single measure of THD doesn't tell you very much unless it's *REALLY* bad.  It's as important, if not more important, to know how the distortion is allocated between the different order harmonics as it is a single measure of the total amount.  In fact, it's generally an understood fact in speaker amp design that distortion should decrease geometrically as you go down the line.  Why this is important is that how, if your only goal is to get as low THD as possible, the easiest way to do that is decrease 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion as much as possible, as those two harmonics tend to contain the most distortion.  This is why solid state amps measure so much better in THD, because they have much less distortion in the 2nd and 3rd harmonics.  But it's also why they can tend to sound harsh and brittle, because their ratio of 4th and 5th harmonic distortion to 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion is MUCH higher.  Tube amps, on the other hand, tend to have much more 2nd harmonic distortion, this is what gives them their characteristic "warm" sound, even though they don't have any tilt in the bass frequencies as far fundamental frequency response goes.  Talking to Doug, from ECP, he mentioned that in his experience, listeners can absolutely hear, and hate, as little as 0.00001 distortion in the 5th harmonic.  but as much as .1% in the 2nd harmonic can sound fine (though at some point starts sounding tubby, it's always "pleasant").


----------



## Me x3

fjrabon said:


> Talking to Doug, from ECP, he mentioned that in his experience, listeners can absolutely hear, and hate, as little as 0.00001 distortion in the 5th harmonic.  but as much as .1% in the 2nd harmonic can sound fine (though at some point starts sounding tubby, it's always "pleasant").


 
  
 I think 0,00001% means -140dB


----------



## fjrabon

me x3 said:


> I think 0,00001% means -140dB


 

 I probably added an extra 0 or two, as I couldn't find the exact email to give an exact quote.  The point is just that higher order harmonics are more offensive, even at much lower levels.


----------



## JaZZ

me x3 said:


> fjrabon said:
> 
> 
> > Talking to Doug, from ECP, he mentioned that in his experience, listeners can absolutely hear, and hate, as little as 0.00001 distortion in the 5th harmonic.  but as much as .1% in the 2nd harmonic can sound fine (though at some point starts sounding tubby, it's always "pleasant").
> ...


 
  
 Still not entirely impossible if you follow Rob Watts' posts. Also, what else is there to be considererd responsible for amplifier sound?


----------



## MattTCG

One thing that still surprises me is that once properly EQ'd, my hd800 is my go to headphone for EDM, or any music with deep bass. Nothing comes that close really. Deep, powerful and clean bass at this level is not an easy feat. It's ironic that for years I used to consider the hd800 bass light.


----------



## fjrabon

matttcg said:


> One thing that still surprises me is that once properly EQ'd, my hd800 is my go to headphone for EDM, or any music with deep bass. Nothing comes that close really. Deep, powerful and clean bass at this level is not an easy feat. It's ironic that for years I used to consider the hd800 bass light.




Yeah, I feel the same way. As much as I was always amazed by the HD800, for years it was just too bright and had too little bass for me. Not so any more.


----------



## JaZZ

Yes, the HD 800's bass is impressive when equalized.


----------



## Sorrodje

My HD800 is already my go to headphone for EDM .


----------



## MattTCG

Most people don't believe me when I tell them about how impressive the bass is on the hd800, once EQ'ed. I've stopped trying to convince them.


----------



## fjrabon

matttcg said:


> Most people don't believe me when I tell them about how impressive the bass is on the hd800, once EQ'ed. I've stopped trying to convince them.


 

 Sure, meanwhile they think like "well, if I spend $8000 on this certain amp, maybe it will boost the bass by 2dB, which is AMAZING."  Like, no dawg, just get serious and EQ the dang thing with a quality EQ program that won't let you clip it.


----------



## Arniesb

matttcg said:


> Most people don't believe me when I tell them about how impressive the bass is on the hd800, once EQ'ed. I've stopped trying to convince them.


Even more impressive how much bass it can get with such open desing and very thin earpads... Imagine how much bass it whould get with same drivers, but with closed desing and big earpads:O These drivers cannot be touched outside of Utopia ones.


----------



## fjrabon

arniesb said:


> Even more impressive how much bass it can get with such open desing and very thin earpads... Imagine how much bass it whould get with same drivers, but with closed desing and big earpads:O These drivers cannot be touched outside of Utopia ones.


 

 eh, part of that is because it is capable of such low distortion.  Putting it in a closed back would almost definitely increase distortion, so counterintuitively, it would likely make the HD800 less able to reach its possible bass glories, as at some point adding more EQ would just make it intolerably distorted.  
  
 If you think about it, the headphones that with EQ are capable of the best bass aren't closed, but rather open designs.  Utopia, HD800, Abyss, LCD series, etc.  And the only contender that's capable of that level of bass quality as a closed back is the TH900, and it's vented rather than sealed.  In the mid levels of quality, without EQ, closed reigns supreme for bass.  But on the high end, with EQ, open backs are actually, probably better at bass.


----------



## Arniesb

fjrabon said:


> eh, part of that is because it is capable of such low distortion.  Putting it in a closed back would almost definitely increase distortion, so counterintuitively, it would likely make the HD800 less able to reach its possible bass glories, as at some point adding more EQ would just make it intolerably distorted.
> 
> If you think about it, the headphones that with EQ are capable of the best bass aren't closed, but rather open designs.  Utopia, HD800, Abyss, LCD series, etc.  And the only contender that's capable of that level of bass quality as a closed back is the TH900, and it's vented rather than sealed.  In the mid levels of quality, without EQ, closed reigns supreme for bass.  But on the high end, with EQ, open backs are actually, probably better at bass.


I wasnt talking about quality, but quantity and power it whould be capable of... And that increased distortion whould be not noticable i bet whitout special equipment. I also heard one of the bassiests open backs and even with eq heavy it still cannot touch Even my Ex HD8 Dj bass strength. Let alone Th600 or TH900. Even if they would be bass boosted to be close to stock Th600 for example. Bass in that case wouldn't be anywhere near close in terms cleannines and precision. Its impossible to have open back with same bass power and to be as precise as Closed headphones.


----------



## fjrabon

arniesb said:


> I wasnt talking about quality, but quantity and power it whould be capable of... And that increased distortion whould be not noticable i bet whitout special equipment. I also heard one of the bassiests open backs and even with eq heavy it still cannot touch Even my Ex HD8 Dj bass strength. Let alone Th600 or TH900. Even if they would be bass boosted to be close to stock Th600 for example. Bass in that case wouldn't be anywhere near close in terms cleannines and precision. Its impossible to have open back with same bass power and to be as precise as Closed headphones.


 

 well, I mean you can make any headphone as high *quantity* in the bass as you'd like if you don't care about distortion, its max power handling is fairly high and your amp is powerful enough.  I can turn a Grado into a bass monster by adding 20dB of bass.  It sounds like crap, but its pure quantity can get there.


----------



## Arniesb

fjrabon said:


> well, I mean you can make any headphone as high *quantity* in the bass as you'd like if you don't care about distortion, its max power handling is fairly high and your amp is powerful enough.  I can turn a Grado into a bass monster by adding 20dB of bass.  It sounds like crap, but its pure quantity can get there.


I just think open backs cant have bass strength to quality ratio as closed one can... Its all physics. Just like regular speakers cant touch subs. You cant overcome physics by equipment or eq. Just my thoughts.


----------



## Ani1000

The HD800 has plenty of bass, it's just not Bloated, it's super tight, i actually never heard such tight bass, this could lead someone to feel they lack bass. 
That's my theory anyways.
Plus what the HD800 lacks in quantity they make up in quality of bass.
Can anyone compare HD800's bass to Focal Utopia's bass?


----------



## Thenewguy007

In regards to bass, I do believe that this is a case where more power does actually affect it.

The more powerful high end amps I tried, the better & stronger the bass became.
When I tried vintage receivers with way more power than my headphone amps, the bass was even more! 

It can hit hard & thump. Not as hard as a lot of Fostex cans, but more so than a lot of headphones!


----------



## fjrabon

thenewguy007 said:


> In regards to bass, I do believe that this is a case where more power does actually affect it.
> 
> The more powerful high end amps I tried, the better & stronger the bass became.
> When I tried vintage receivers with way more power than my headphone amps, the bass was even more!
> ...


 

 this is probably due to a lot of higher power amps having higher output impedance, especially old receivers, which typically have the headphone jack output impedance well over 100 ohms.  While there is no understood electrical mechanism for an amp with more headroom producing more bass without simply being louder overall, high output impedance will absolutely add a mid-bass hump to the HD800 centered around 120 Hz.


----------



## ColtMrFire

ani1000 said:


> The HD800 has plenty of bass, it's just not Bloated, it's super tight, i actually never heard such tight bass, this could lead someone to feel they lack bass.


 
  
 Many people are used to bloated/emphasized bass, so they think the HD800 is lacking in it.


----------



## JaZZ

coltmrfire said:


> Many people are used to bloated/emphasized bass, so they think the HD800 is lacking in it.


 
  
 ...whereas in fact it just lacks some low-frequency extension (blue curve).
  

(Source: SonarWorks)


----------



## RCBinTN

matttcg said:


> One thing that still surprises me is that once properly EQ'd, my hd800 is my go to headphone for EDM, or any music with deep bass. Nothing comes that close really. Deep, powerful and clean bass at this level is not an easy feat. It's ironic that for years I used to consider the hd800 bass light.


 
  
 I fully agree, and mine aren't modded or EQ'd.  I find the bass response to be accurate, fast, and either punchy or smooth depending on the music and type of bass instrument.  They can go as deep as the music calls for.
  
 IMO, just great for a dynamic HP.
  
 My planars have a different and enjoyable bass response, but the HD800 are certainly not bass light.  When you combine their bass with the exceptional midrange, it's hard to beat them. However, this SQ did require some improvements to the upstream components thru the years .
  
 Rock on, Matt!
  
 Cheers,
 RCB


----------



## MattTCG

rcbintn said:


> I fully agree, and mine aren't modded or EQ'd.  I find the bass response to be accurate, fast, and either punchy or smooth depending on the music and type of bass instrument.  They can go as deep as the music calls for.
> 
> IMO, just great for a dynamic HP.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm glad that you're enjoying them. If we haven't convinced you to try Sonarworks yet, well... what's it going to take?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

The Sony MDR R10 Bass Heavy have pretty nice bass for a closed back.


----------



## MattTCG

bosiemoncrieff said:


> The Sony MDR R10 Bass Heavy have pretty nice bass for a closed back.


 
  
 IF...you can get a good seal, which I never could.


----------



## ColtMrFire

matttcg said:


> If we haven't convinced you to try Sonarworks yet, well... what's it going to take?


 
  
 For him it aint broke, so why fix it?


----------



## MattTCG

coltmrfire said:


> For him it aint broke, so why fix it?


 
  
 You may be right. But in fairness, you can only truly give an educated answer to that question if you've heard the hd800 both ways.


----------



## fjrabon

bosiemoncrieff said:


> The Sony MDR R10 Bass Heavy have pretty nice bass for a closed back.




Vented tho


----------



## RCBinTN

matttcg said:


> I'm glad that you're enjoying them. If we haven't convinced you to try Sonarworks yet, well... what's it going to take?


 
  
 Well, that's an interesting question, Matt. Thank you.
  
 I just upgraded my rig with new cables, happy with the current SQ (details posted on the Wywires Red thread).  No more upgrades planned, except fleeting images like: Yggy, Rag, WA5, you know .
  
 I do not want to mess with the physical guts of the HD800, but a (somewhat easy?) software EQ program may be of interest.
  
 Just wondering, Matt. Did you revert from HD800S to HD800 because of Sonarworks? I guess that I'm looking for a testimonial here. I remember when we listened together to the HD800S, at the NV meet...to me, the HD800S sounded like the HD800 with a towel stuffed inside, LOL.
  
 So yeah, I'm open to new ideas to improve my SQ.
  
 Thanks,
 RCB


----------



## MattTCG

rcbintn said:


> Well, that's an interesting question, Matt. Thank you.
> 
> I just upgraded my rig with new cables, happy with the current SQ (details posted on the Wywires Red thread).  No more upgrades planned, except fleeting images like: Yggy, Rag, WA5, you know .
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, after hearing the 800 with Sonarworks I sold the 800 S and went back to the original 800. There is a free trial so you have nothing to loose.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Is there any way to run Sonarworks on a portable system, i.e., without being tethered to a PC or MAC via a USB?


----------



## cycle53x12

So Installed the Sonarworks on my Mac mini, but for the life of me can't find the app anywhere on the Mac. Any suggestions?
 I am Running OS10.7.5 and their website says it is compatible with that version of OS X 
  
 Thanks for any help


----------



## Zoom25

Alright, let's try this Sonarworks thing out. I downloaded it and have it set to play through Audirvana Plus with the HD 800 profile selected. This should be good enough right?
  
 I would have given this a shot sooner if it wasn't for either my monitors or my BDP-1's AES beating the crap out of USB. I truly hope this works out with the HD 800. Might make for a separate bedroom rig with just headphones. I'll update as things go along. Now to actually listen...


----------



## RogerWilco

I wish i had the attitude of just coming into all this , 22 years of this hobby and have went through equipment that could buy a new car and truck and a house  i was early friends with scott hall of electra glide audio from years back, helped him come up with the name,david elrod financed the venture and of course elrod has power cords at 15,000$ now    I do like reading comments here even though i post very little .


----------



## johnjen

I am a proponent of EQ for the 800's.
 I also push them far beyond what most would consider 'normal'.
  
 But then my system is meant to do just that, push the degree of SQ until I reach my goal(s).
  
 I have pushed them to the extent where I can feel the concussive impacts from percussion and other sources of acoustical low freq energy (cannons, pipe organs, foot stomps, explosions, lightening strikes etc.) that are ≈ 1 octave below 20Hz.
*SSBB* (SubSonic Bass Boost) is what I use to push the very bottom end up to near flat along with EQ and *PRT* (Phase Reversal Tweak).
 And by feel, I literally mean feel the concussion on and in my head, and curiously enough in my chest as well.
  
 And yes it does take much fussing to achieve this without breakup and added distortion, but when achieved, the results are most impressive.
  
 And I know of no other headphone that can perform to this degree, AND properly deliver to the same degree, the rest of the audible spectrum as well, AND tie it all together into a homogeneous whole (I call this C3, Cohesion – Coherence – Coupling).
  
 That doesn't mean there aren't a few that might be able to, but I know of no one who has attempted to achieve this level of performance using other HP's.
  
 JJ


----------



## Ani1000

Well...? 


zoom25 said:


> Alright, let's try this Sonarworks thing out. I downloaded it and have it set to play through Audirvana Plus with the HD 800 profile selected. This should be good enough right?
> 
> I would have given this a shot sooner if it wasn't for either my monitors or my BDP-1's AES beating the crap out of USB. I truly hope this works out with the HD 800. Might make for a separate bedroom rig with just headphones. I'll update as things go along. Now to actually listen...


----------



## Yoga

coltmrfire said:


> Many people are used to bloated/emphasized bass, so they think the HD800 is lacking in it.


 
  


rcbintn said:


> I fully agree, and mine aren't modded or EQ'd.  I find the bass response to be accurate, fast, and either punchy or smooth depending on the music and type of bass instrument.  They can go as deep as the music calls for.


 
  
  
 I was shocked how good the bass is on the HD800 once put through SWR3. So deep and powerful, and far more representative of the source.
  
 Which leads me to, at the risk of repetition, having to stress that the HD800 stock is categorically—unequivocally—not accurate. _Accuracy_ defined as a 1:1 representation of the sound as intended.
  
 They do not go as deep as the music calls for, either.
  
 I'm talking from a technical perspective as someone who produces/mixes music using calibrated (flat) studio monitors in a treated room, and have heard plenty of other (£££) studio setups. The HD800 gets close using EQ/Sonarworks (close enough to produce on at night, but certainly not for mixing and mastering), yet _still_ lack lower extension.
  
 Clipping is technique used in the mastering process in which to increase the average RMS of a track (think: loudness wars). The first thing to suffer during clipping is the low end. I was working on a track via the HD800 (using Sonarworks) and clipped until I heard low end starting to suffer (lessen), then backed off so it was unnoticeable via instant A/B switch. Swapped to the studio monitors and it was clear it was entirely overworked, so much juice being missing at the low end.
  
 As I said before, enjoying the sound of the HD800 is up to each person, but labelling them accurate is an inaccurate (and misleading to others) statement :¬)

 Caveat: I adore the HD800 via SWR3. So much in fact it's put me off auditioning the Utopia thus far.

 Caveat 2: To those trialling SWR3 - let the sound burn in with your ears for a while—at least a few days—before you flick back to the stock HD800 sound to compare.


----------



## MattTCG

@Yoga I think that you make a good point here. I don't think that I've truly had an appreciation of not just how much performance was in the hd800, but I also never truly realized just how good my DAC was until I was able to "push" the system with SW.


----------



## whirlwind

matttcg said:


> rcbintn said:
> 
> 
> > Well, that's an interesting question, Matt. Thank you.
> ...


 
 I have never tried Sonarworks either, i guess because i love the sound that i am getting with tubes....but I may give this a go sometime when I get the time to mess with it


----------



## Yoga

matttcg said:


> @Yoga I think that you make a good point here. I don't think that I've truly had an appreciation of not just how much performance was in the hd800, but I also never truly realized just how good my DAC was until I was able to "push" the system with SW.


 

 Yes it's rather incredible. I wish I had heard properly amped and EQ'ed HD800 a few years ago. I'd have saved myself _a lot_ of money :¬)


----------



## MattTCG

yoga said:


> Yes it's rather incredible. I wish I had heard properly amped and EQ'ed HD800 a few years ago. I'd have saved myself _a lot_ of money :¬)


 
  
 I've been fortunate enough to hear/audition just about every flagship out there. When I compare $2000, $3000 and $4000 headphones against EQ'd hd800's on a good amp/dac, I'm always impressed with how well the 800 competes and sometimes outperforms much more expensive headphones. When I got started in this hobby, I would have never imagined that I'd consider the hd800 "a bargain" but in fact I do. I bought them from a deal on Newegg for $850 NIB. Quite possible the best money that I've spent in the hobby.


----------



## Yoga

matttcg said:


> I've been fortunate enough to hear/audition just about every flagship out there. When I compare $2000, $3000 and $4000 headphones against EQ'd hd800's on a good amp/dac, I'm always impressed with how well the 800 competes and sometimes outperforms much more expensive headphones. When I got started in this hobby, I would have never imagined that I'd consider the hd800 "a bargain" but in fact I do. I bought them from a deal on Newegg for $850 NIB. Quite possible the best money that I've spent in the hobby.


 

 Agree completely. Considering today's market the HD800 are an absolute steal! I paid £675 for a brand new pair last year. I'm enjoying the V281/SWR3/HD800 setup (as well as CanOpener and MidSide plugins for a more speaker like sound) as much as the Abyss/Lumin A1/Moon 600i setup, and that's a different price point entirely.
  
 How do they compare to the Utopia? That's the only top end can I've not heard (bar Stax).


----------



## jibzilla

matttcg said:


> One thing that still surprises me is that once properly EQ'd, my hd800 is my go to headphone for EDM, or any music with deep bass. Nothing comes that close really. Deep, powerful and clean bass at this level is not an easy feat. It's ironic that for years I used to consider the hd800 bass light.


 
  
 You will never go back to the hd800 once you hear adam a7x and sub8. Near/midfield so no bothering your neighbor's, maybe spouse though. Active so no expensive separate amps, something like my Sangaku or gsx-mk2 is plenty. No expensive speaker wire's something as simple as my proaudiola/mogami cable's xlr or rca is plenty.
  
 Lcd-X is much better to me with electronic and rap than hd800. You might be able to get the Lcd-X impact with eq and the hd800 but you will not get the weight. I put the Lcd-X in a 3 year, yes 3 year contest with electronic and rap against the Adam's. Adam's won.


----------



## RCBinTN

yoga said:


> I was shocked how good the bass is on the HD800 once put through SWR3. So deep and powerful, and far more representative of the source.
> 
> Which leads me to, at the risk of repetition, having to stress that the HD800 stock is categorically—unequivocally—not accurate. _Accuracy_ defined as a 1:1 representation of the sound as intended.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're right, thanks for clarifying. I went back and read my full post, and realized I had omitted the always important caveats of IMHO and YMMV.
  
 After reading all the comments about SW, I plan to try it out. As Matt wrote, there's a free trial so nothing to lose and, it sounds like, a lot to gain. Thanks all.
  
 Cheers,
 RCB


----------



## Yoga

rcbintn said:


> You're right, thanks for clarifying. I went back and read my full post, and realized I had omitted the always important caveats of IMHO and YMMV.
> 
> After reading all the comments about SW, I plan to try it out. As Matt wrote, there's a free trial so nothing to lose and, it sounds like, a lot to gain. Thanks all.
> 
> ...


 

 Enjoy! 

 Essential tip: Make sure 'Avoid Clipping' is *enabled* (switch below output meter on right hand side). That'll counteract the increased gain of the EQ and prevent digital clipping (which sounds like suddenly dropping to a horrifically encoded MP3) . You'll have to turn your volume up to compensate.

 If you decide to go with SWR3, this is worth the small investment of $49:

 https://www.rogueamoeba.com/audiohijack/

 Very good audio quality. I tried the free alternative and it was skipping/popping at the same sample rate. Flawless through AJ.


----------



## Zoom25

ani1000 said:


> Well...?


 

 It worked via Audirvana Plus and played fine after tweaking around. Took about 5 mins to get the hang of all the settings. I'm reviewing Sonarworks on three aspects: *transparency, phase/imaging, tonality.*
  
  
*Tonality:*
  
 This is my thought on tonality on both headphones and speakers: If you can get it relatively close enough to an ideal flat signature (taking FR and reverberation time into account), then for at least casual listening you'll be good enough. For very accurate work, individual calibration will be needed. Honestly, tonality is not the biggest thing as long as you're very close to the ballpark. After that, let time do it's thing. You'll end up getting used to it. 
  
*Transparency:*
  
 I know that affecting tonality at first can seem like things have become more detailed or less detailed depending on how you do it. So it's crucial to take your time and not mistake tonality changes for decrease/increase in transparency.
  
*Phase Issues:*
  
 In general, the PC outputting audio via USB through any software has always been a SOLID step below what the Bryston BDP-1 via AES can deliver. Same goes for transparency. BDP-1 sounds super relaxed, clear, and fatigue free. It must be heard.
  
  
*Actual Initial impressions*
 - Between the BDP-1, Amphions, and HD 800 usage, I have become very sensitive to phase issues, and thus going between the (min, mixed, and linear filters) was very clear. I'm currently on linear. It produces the tightest image, although I think it may also be doing something else that's not as clean as straight output without Sonarworks, and definitely not BDP-1 level...but still good for casual use. I'll see if I can get used to it.
 - Tonality wise, I'm set to neutral profile and playing around with the wet/dry settings. I think I'm at 70%. The improvements in tonality might just be enough to overlook the lack in transparency/phase problems. I think most people won't be bothered by the phase thing like I am. The tonality is really well done based on previous applications trying to do similar things.
 - More bass, relaxed treble, although perhaps very, very slightly recessed mids. LMFAOOOO I swear this is like an LCD-2.2 pre-fazor kind of vibe.
 - I'll continue to update as time goes on.
 - Soundstage: It perhaps changed a bit, but it's not of concern. It's negligible at this current (macro) stage. When I start nitpicking later on, maybe then I'll factor it in.
  
*What I would ultimately like to have:*
 - Run everything through the BDP-1 as usual and go for an amp that can get it close enough in tonality, while retaining the transparency, low noise floor, and lack of phase issues of BDP-1. I'm not convinced that Sonarworks is the cleanest thing out there, especially compared to something like Trinnov or just plain BDP-1. It is a trade-off that I'll have to figure out for myself.
 - I'd be curious to see Amarra come out with a HD 800 EQ as well. Amarra SQ comes with EQ for other headphones as well.
 - Time after time I have found that the less you mess with the signal in the digital realm, the cleaner it remains without artifacts.
  
  
*TL;DR:* Good in terms of tonality so far. Cautious about phase issues and ultimately transparency (compared to BDP-1).
  
*EDIT*: For the deepest bass extension, I ultimately cannot hit it without the BDP-1. Mac w/ or w/o Sonarworks still cannot get as low. The BDP-1 delivers such pure focused distortion-free bass that it becomes very noticeable every time I switch to Mac. Sonarworks essentially thickens up the bass a bit, but still can't get that low. It's both a hearing and feeling things.


----------



## fjrabon

yoga said:


> Enjoy!
> 
> 
> Essential tip: Make sure 'Avoid Clipping' is *enabled* (switch below output meter on right hand side). That'll counteract the increased gain of the EQ and prevent digital clipping (which sounds like suddenly dropping to a horrifically encoded MP3) . You'll have to turn your volume up to compensate.
> ...




One super cool thing too is how versatile audiohijack is. You can individually route different programs to different outputs, you can (if you want) individually EQ left and right sides in the mix, one thing I've used it for is to send the audio to a recorder and created sonarworks "remixes" with crossfeed built in, that I can then play in my portable player/phone. It's great as a platform to get sonarworks into your mix, but is way more versatile than that as well.


----------



## fjrabon

ruthieandjohn said:


> Is there any way to run Sonarworks on a portable system, i.e., without being tethered to a PC or MAC via a USB?




Yes, if you're using audiohijack to get sonarworks into your system, you can simply take tracks you want on your portable player and have the output recorded (instead of or in addition to being sent to your DAC) and this will record "remixed with sonarworks" versions of your music that can gen be saved to your portable player. They're talking about a phone version of sonarworks, but I don't know where development stands with that as of now. I know they asked for beta testers for android (but I don't use android).


----------



## JaZZ

jibzilla said:


> matttcg said:
> 
> 
> > One thing that still surprises me is that once properly EQ'd, my hd800 is my go to headphone for EDM, or any music with deep bass. Nothing comes that close really. Deep, powerful and clean bass at this level is not an easy feat. It's ironic that for years I used to consider the hd800 bass light.
> ...


 
  
 I can't speak for the LCD-X, but compared to my modified and carefully equalized HE1000, my modified and carefully equalized HD 800 delivers about the same bass impact _and_ weight. I really think it's a matter of adequate equalizing.
  
 While I agree that speakers may sound more realistic in every respect, some music lovers are into headphones for some or the other reason, so there's no point in arguing.


----------



## Yoga

fjrabon said:


> One super cool thing too is how versatile audiohijack is. You can individually route different programs to different outputs, you can (if you want) individually EQ left and right sides in the mix, one thing I've used it for is to send the audio to a recorder and created sonarworks "remixes" with crossfeed built in, that I can then play in my portable player/phone. It's great as a platform to get sonarworks into your mix, but is way more versatile than that as well.


 

 Nice idea. 
  
 Yes it's a very versatile app. Great for recording video/audio streams too if the need arises.
  
@Zoom25  - What chain(s) are you using to compare? Could there be other factors affecting the sound?

 The Lumin A1 (network DAC) offers incredibly natural and organic sound. Moving away from PC/Mac audio was a huge benefit in terms of tonality and transparency. I've found that the Dangerous Convert-2 and RME ADI-2 Pro (via the Uptone Regen) have gotten close to that via the hackintosh. I'm hoping the Solaris/Avocett IIA manages to surpass it.
  
 Side note: I also run SWR3 in Linear mode. As should everyone, it's more accurate for playback (the other modes are designed for low latency work or a compromise between the two).


----------



## Zoom25

yoga said:


> Nice idea.
> 
> Yes it's a very versatile app. Great for recording video/audio streams too if the need arises.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm using the shortest chain I possibly can: Source (BDP-1 or Mac running Audirvana Plus) -> same DAC/headphone amplifier -> power amp -> monitors
  
 Dangerous Music Source w/Teradak LPS -> Grimm Audio interconnects; all Amphion amp, cables, monitors. Headphones plugged straight into Dangerous Source for the time being.
  
 P.S. Aside from the Convert-2 and Solaris, I think the Bryston BDA-3 might be worth checking out.


----------



## Zoom25

Side Question: Has anyone been able to run Sonarworks on OS 10.6.8?


----------



## fjrabon

zoom25 said:


> Side Question: Has anyone been able to run Sonarworks on OS 10.6.8?


 

 I've had every single iteration of OSX, as I'm on the beta program, and I've never had Sonarworks have any issue with any of them.  I know at one point I was running 10.6.8, and I know I didn't have any problems, but I can't tell you exactly when that was.  I am currently on 10.12.3 (beta 4)


----------



## Zoom25

fjrabon said:


> I've had every single iteration of OSX, as I'm on the beta program, and I've never had Sonarworks have any issue with any of them.  I know at one point I was running 10.6.8, and I know I didn't have any problems, but I can't tell you exactly when that was.  I am currently on 10.12.3 (beta 4)


 

 It doesn't seem to be working on my older 10.6.8 iMac. I'll contact Sonarworks and see if there is a workaround. On one part of their website, the minimum is listed as 10.7
  
 https://sonarworks.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/207238685-What-are-the-minimum-system-requirements-for-Sonarworks-software-


----------



## Yoga

zoom25 said:


> I'm using the shortest chain I possibly can: Source (BDP-1 or Mac running Audirvana Plus) -> same DAC/headphone amplifier -> power amp -> monitors
> 
> Dangerous Music Source w/Teradak LPS -> Grimm Audio interconnects; all Amphion amp, cables, monitors. Headphones plugged straight into Dangerous Source for the time being.
> 
> P.S. Aside from the Convert-2 and Solaris, I think the Bryston BDA-3 might be worth checking out.


 
  
 Thanks. Are you running your HD800 SE or balanced?

 Balanced via the V281 was a serious upgrade to the sound.
  
 P.S. enjoying the thread/website crossover there! The IIA is top of the list as I'm in need of a monitor controller. Finding myself tempted by the Base25 Two18 Amphion system too. Off to demo it next week. Erk!
  
 Edit: Snow Leopard - my fave OSX. All downhill since then.


----------



## MickeyVee

Wow, a lot of modding and/or EQ talked about. Agree, bass is outstanding with the HD800 and pretty much unappreciated.
  
 I've been following this forum {as well as the HD800S and Utopia threads} but have stayed pretty quite as I believe I've hit my personal end game. I've had my HD800 for about three years now and finally hit the full satisfaction curve once I got my McIntosh MXA70 {same as the MHA100 but with matching speakers}. My chain is basically a 2012 MacMini with an SSD {really quiet}, Audirvana Plus on top of iTunes into the McIntosh with a AuioQuest Carbon USB cable.  Using the HD800 ADL cable with the carbon/rhodium connectors.
  
 Totally satisfied and just to appease my interest, tried the HD800S and Edition X for a couple of weeks.. not for me; tried EQ'ing with Audirvana.. nope; tried the Dupont Resonator mod.. again, not for me and from what I've read, I'm probably the only one  Still open to other possibilities but HP GAS is gone. Just enjoying the music.
  
 I probably lucked out with system synergy: I can set the headphone impedance on the McIntosh and set the Bass Boost to +2.5 dB with is subtle but noticeable. I also _really_ lucked out with the McIntosh when I got it at the TAVES Show in Toronto a few years ago.  It would cost me twice as much now as I paid for it then.
  
 As you can tell, I really love the HD800 and hope others find their HD800 nirvana!


----------



## Zoom25

yoga said:


> Thanks. Are you running your HD800 SE or balanced?
> 
> Balanced via the V281 was a serious upgrade to the sound.
> 
> ...


 

 The HD 800 are being run single-ended. I have done balanced before with Hifiman and Audeze, including speaker amp taps. I am familiar with what all of that brings. I kind of gave up on headphones after having multiple speaker rigs. It seems like a hassle putting it on. I've been meaning to try the Focal Elear and Utopia, but keep putting it off. I still like tweaking to get the best sound, but that's now reserved for the speaker setup. With headphones, its more for casual use. I'll be sure to incorporate the Sonarworks in my audition.
  
 I must say I'm enjoying Sonarworks on the macro scale and what it does to the vibe/sound. I'll leave the nitpicking stuff for the GS/monitors thread.
  
 Good luck with the Amphion audition. It took me quite a bit of time to get my Amphions to sound their best. I've spent 50+ hours tweaking and chatting with Anssi. Hopefully, they'll be setup correct where you are auditioning them. I've also made up my mind about getting the BaseOne25 after talking to someone using them with One15. No third party subs.
  
EDIT: Out of all the variables I've mentioned, I'm most curious about having a LCD-2 back again. I swear this HD 800 with Sonarworks reminds me a lot about my LCD-2.2 and how groovy it can get! Kind of like with my HD 598 where I know it's well below the HD 800, but you can still enjoy it on whole and jam out.


----------



## jibzilla

jazz said:


> I can't speak for the LCD-X, but compared to my modified and carefully equalized HE1000, my modified and carefully equalized HD 800 delivers about the same bass impact _and_ weight. I really think it's a matter of adequate equalizing.
> 
> While I agree that speakers may sound more realistic in every respect, some music lovers are into headphones for some or the other reason, so there's no point in arguing.


 
  
 It is not a headphone/ speaker thing. It is that rap and electronic really benefit from a bass that you can hear and feel even if it is at low listening levels (my adam's never get really loud). The closest I have found to reproducing a nice meaty bass is the Lcd-X and it is by quite the margin over the hd800. I had the he1k for a month, the Lcd-X has more bass weight. If you like electronic and eq then eq that headphone. The X is also better with synths and drums than the hd800 which is also important for electronic and rap.
  
 It is also about forgiveness. The hd800 is very unforgiving. You probably will not find a bigger fan of electronic and rap, and as much as I hate to say it is not mastered very well. Lcd's and Adam's are quite a bit more forgiving.
  
 I'm all for tweaking and eq but when you are talking about taking something that is the polar opposite of what you need I think you are really pushing your luck for no reason. The hd800 has a treble spike and anemic bass stock. The polar opposite of what you want for electronic and rap.
  
 The who's who of dnb producers and dj's chose the Lcd-2 and this is while the hd800 is available. If you want an all arounder get the he-500 or 007mk1. Very little eq needed with those 2 headphones for any genre. The hd800 is the rock king and from what I have heard classical.


----------



## Yoga

jibzilla said:


> I'm all for tweaking and eq but when you are talking about taking something that is the polar opposite of what you need I think you are really pushing your luck for no reason. The hd800 has a treble spike and anemic bass stock. The polar opposite of what you want for electronic and rap.
> 
> The who's who of dnb producers and dj's chose the Lcd-2 and this is while the hd800 is available. If you want an all arounder get the he-500 or 007mk1. Very little eq needed with those 2 headphones for any genre. The hd800 is the rock king and from what I have heard classical.


 
  
 I produce both electronic and hip hop and can tell you that SWR3 HD800 are _far_ better than LCD's for that purpose. I own the 2.2's (and have made direct A/B comparisons with them) and have tested X's, 3's etc.


----------



## jibzilla

yoga said:


> I produce both electronic and hip hop and can tell you that SWR3 HD800 are _far_ better than LCD's for that purpose. I own the 2.2's (and have made direct A/B comparisons with them) and have tested X's, 3's etc.


 
  
 I do too. Completely disagree. Miss the DJ part of sig?


----------



## Yoga

jibzilla said:


> I do too. Completely disagree. Miss the DJ part of sig?


 
  
 DJ != producing.

 If you're talking _stock_ HD800, I agree completely. I'm referring to HD800 (balanced) via Sonarworks.


----------



## fjrabon

Not sure why we are using what DJs and producers use as some sort of benchmark. I've been in dozens of studios and by far the most used headphones are the Beyerdynamic DT770 pro and Sony MDR7506. Nobody remotely argues those are worldclass headphones.


----------



## jibzilla

yoga said:


> DJ != producing.
> 
> If you're talking _stock_ HD800, I agree completely. I'm referring to HD800 (balanced) via Sonarworks.


 

 I ran out of room for the production section. I have actually spent more on relaxation station than production but I have some vintage Korg, Akai and Formula Sound that can get the job done. Different handle but I'm on beatport. The only pure dj I can think of off the top of my head is grooverider and I have one of his records. So yeah dj does equal producing to a certain degree. Know any pure producers?
  
 For production I def. prefer my adam's.


----------



## jibzilla

fjrabon said:


> Not sure why we are using what DJs and producers use as some sort of benchmark. I've been in dozens of studios and by far the most used headphones are the Beyerdynamic DT770 pro and Sony MDR7506. Nobody remotely argues those are worldclass headphones.


 
  
 When the discussion is whether or not the hd800 is good for electronic and rap why not use dj's and producer's as a benchmark? I would say speakers are the majority tool but I would not be surprised to find hd800's. I would also not be surprised if it's us audiofools that are in the minority as far as pro/hifi is concerned. Other than stats I can not think of a more detailed headphone out there so it really does lend itself to pro audio. Why listen to music casually on such a dry and unforgiving headphone?
  
 The sony's you speak of are amazing with vocals. You will see just about every famous singer out there wearing them at some point. They are bad at just about everything else but unreal with vocals for the money. With mr. speakers dog pads they are the ultimate dj headphone.


----------



## Yoga

fjrabon said:


> Not sure why we are using what DJs and producers use as some sort of benchmark. I've been in dozens of studios and by far the most used headphones are the Beyerdynamic DT770 pro and Sony MDR7506. Nobody remotely argues those are worldclass headphones.


 

 Agreed. Most producers, mix and especially mastering engineers will avoid headphones unless forced to by the situation (or checking a mix/master). Headphone optimisation is not part of the critical listening plan as with monitors and room treatment. 
  
 The DT770's are for tracking only. I don't know anyone who produces on them out of choice. Cheap and good sound isolation. Awful for playback (I own a pair) :¬)


----------



## Yoga

Regarding HD800 and bass, listen to this track with stock HD800:
  
 https://open.spotify.com/track/7yj3gKnvFWIOqat5A4G53Y
  
 Then turn on/install/demo Sonarworks and listen again. 
  
 Absolutely insane change. Amazing scaling capability!


----------



## Ani1000

Sold my HD800, bought studio monitors, now I'm back to HD800
You need excellent room treatment to really exploit a monitor's real potential, which is extremely difficult, not to mention finding the right height, position, what a nightmare!


----------



## Yoga

ani1000 said:


> Sold my HD800, bought studio monitors, now I'm back to HD800
> You need excellent room treatment to really exploit a monitor's real potential, which is extremely difficult, not to mention finding the right height, position, what a nightmare!


 

 Yes, a lot of variables which differ from speaker to speaker. General (understatement) rules:

 - Sit in an equilateral triangle with them

 - Offset slightly so their converging point is placed behind you by about 2'

 - With outstretched arms, your hands should be (roughly) level with the horizontal centre of the speakers
  
 - The halfway point between tweeter and midrange driver should be ear level

 As good a starting point as any. Room is more important than anything else though. First reflections being the biggest factor.

 Do consider trying @fjrabon's settings for CanOpener and MidSide (crossover/speaker emulation plugins) along with Sonarworks. Very good indeed. Listening to that as we speak :¬)


----------



## jibzilla

ani1000 said:


> Sold my HD800, bought studio monitors, now I'm back to HD800
> You need excellent room treatment to really exploit a monitor's real potential, which is extremely difficult, not to mention finding the right height, position, what a nightmare!


 
  
 The biggest nightmare I ran into was finding a pair of good sounding active monitors. The a7x's were the best out of many. Maybe I got lucky with my room but $600 of 4 gik basstraps seems to me to be plenty. Fairly easy peasy.
  
 Maybe if it was really large passive speakers with plenty of power behind them then yeah, but my adam's are just not that loud so I see no reason to go nuts with bass traps. 
  
 Are you sure you are not disappointed with the bass traps? I'm telling you if the speakers were near field not many bass traps were required.


----------



## JaZZ

jibzilla said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > I can't speak for the LCD-X, but compared to my modified and carefully equalized HE1000, my modified and carefully equalized HD 800 delivers about the same bass impact _and_ weight. I really think it's a matter of adequate equalizing.
> ...


 
  
 We seem to have different preferences, also when it comes to music. I don't listen to Rap, but some of the DnB and Trip-Hop tracks within my collection require comparable bass capabilities. Both HD 800 and HE1000 deliver all the bass intensity and impact I want with their respective standard EQ curve – so I'm not going to modify it depending on the genre. The bass on the recording is as strong as it should be already, I couldn't stand any more of it – although I could easily add some more low-frequency power for more impact or weight. In my experience authority and weight are provided by frequencies below ~60 Hz; punch and bass impact are provided by frequencies between 60 and 125 Hz; a good junction to the midrange and particularly a present upper midrange are important for the impression of fast drum beats, including bass drum. These criteria have to be respected to make a fast, punchy and impactful headphone out of the notoriously «slow» HE1000 (add to this a better cable). The HD 800 on the other hand needs some support below 90 Hz and benefits from taming the 6 kHz region, roughly spoken. You need to hear it to believe what a talented allrounder the HD 800 can be. Now if the EQ curve would force it to produce more harmonic distortion than usable sound, this would be the scenario you seem to be evoking, but that isn't the case at all, it can bear a lot of additional power below its resonant frequency and is even thankful for it. Also, I like full resolution even for mediocre recordings, as that makes it easier to the ears to attribute the tonal flaws to the recording instead of the headphone and at the same time provides a better insight into the musical events through all irritating sonic components.


----------



## Zoom25

Update on Sonarworks:
  
 The decrease in resolution is definitely noticeable, especially in the mids and lack of air (correlated). The tonality can be welcoming.
  
*However, something far more concerning for me*: The one thing that I've been paying attention to are the three filter settings (min, mixed, and linear). The linear at first appeared to be the cleanest, but right away I knew something felt odd. After a few hours, it's definitely clear that it's not the most natural. Same goes for the other two filters which have their own problem. I still need time to fully get it right, but running Audirvana Plus without Sonarworks or better yet using BDP-1 yields more natural sound, despite the FR differences.
  
 I'm highly sensitive to filter changes and upsampling (hardware or software).
  
 I can't really describe the sound, other than being glossed over in a way that's *indigestible*. After long extended use, it definitely starts messing with me physically in the head. It's the exact same way with upsampling or poor filter choices.
  
 Switching over to the BDP-1 and it felt much easier on the brain right away. Sure, the increase in brightness at first seemed harsh, but I quickly adjusted to. Out of all the things, the filters might be what ends up killing Sonarworks for me.


----------



## fjrabon

zoom25 said:


> Update on Sonarworks:
> 
> The decrease in resolution is definitely noticeable, especially in the mids and lack of air (correlated). The tonality can be welcoming.
> 
> ...




Not sure what you mean by "filter" but the only extent to which the term makes sense at all in the way you are using it is if you're calling EQ as a whole a filter. Linear phase isn't a filter, it's a property of a filter. Saying "filters may be what ends up killing sonarworks for me" is THE SAME EXACT THING as saying "sonarworks is what may end up killing sonarworks for me." Filter is just a word that means any signal processing tool. Filters are always on a scale between linear and minimum phase. Audirvana plus is a filter as soon as you turn on any EQ or other DSP. And it's necessarily going to be either minimum, mixed or linear phase.


----------



## Me x3

fjrabon said:


> Not sure what you mean by "filter" but the only extent to which the term makes sense at all in the way you are using it is if you're calling EQ as a whole a filter. Linear phase isn't a filter, it's a property of a filter. Saying "filters may be what ends up killing sonarworks for me" is THE SAME EXACT THING as saying *"sonarworks is what may end up killing sonarworks for me."* Filter is just a word that means any signal processing tool. Filters are always on a scale between linear and minimum phase. Audirvana plus is a filter as soon as you turn on any EQ or other DSP. And it's necessarily going to be either minimum, mixed or linear phase.


 
 Kind of a suicide.


----------



## Yoga

zoom25 said:


> Update on Sonarworks:
> 
> The decrease in resolution is definitely noticeable, especially in the mids and lack of air (correlated). The tonality can be welcoming.
> 
> ...


 

 A shame it's not working for you, I hear none of the issues you're having, especially lack of air/resolution. That could be your choice of amp and of lacking a balanced headphone connection.

 Out of curiosity, do you have a trusted EQ tool? DMG Equilibrium especially.  

 If so, make a rough estimate of the SWR3 curve and set the Processing Mode to *FIR* and Phase to *Analogue. *Use a high *Impulse Length*.
  
 Some mastering engineers (on GS) recommended these settings, and say it's as transparent as they've ever heard. Might be worth a pop for you.


----------



## fjrabon

To sort of clarify the three phase settings (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, although this is admittedly a moderate oversimplification): any time you do any sort of signal processing, be it in the analog or digital realms, the potential exists for differentially delaying parts of the signal. In EQ, it is ALWAYS the case that some frequencies will be delayed more than others. You CONNOT EVEN THEORETICALLY have EQ without having this variable delay of frequencies. Let's consider the shortest of these delays to be called A, and the longest of these delays to be called C, and some mid point amount of delay to be called B. What linear phase does is re-aligns all the frequencies back up in to correct phase with the longest of these delays. That is, every part is now delayed by C (or higher). The phase of the original signal is thus not changed, I.e. It is linear. The cost is that your signal is delayed more, and it takes more processing power, as your computer has to do work to align the phase. There can also be pre-ringing in the bass with linear phase, though with the levels we are using with a full spectrum EQ like sonarworks this isn't significant and is rarely audible. What minimum phase does is that it lets all the signal pass through at its fastest speed possible, A. What this will mean though is that some frequencies get delayed more than others, and are thus out of phase. The benefit is lower processing power needed, lower latency, no pre-ringing, as all ringing is shifted to after the transient (and thus masked by the transient). The drawback is a potentially unstable phase response leading to possibly poor imaging and inability to accurately control the EQ levels, as adjacent and harmonic frequencies partially phase cancel at times. Mixed is just what you'd think, essentially a compromise setting that delays the signal by a variable amount representing a mid-point, allowing the worst phase issues to be solved by delaying to point B, but not fully delaying all the way to C. It can still have pre-ringing issues (though, again rarely significant) but latency is drastically reduced from linear phase. Processor usage is roughly the same as linear. 

Again, I want to emphasize these settings aren't filters. Sonarworks is the filter, just like all EQ, digital or analog, is a filter. These are settings of the filter.


----------



## Yoga

Great informative post (as always), one caveat: the Min filter on SWR3 has a higher CPU load than the others due to the incredibly low latency (1ms).


----------



## fjrabon

yoga said:


> Great informative post (as always), one caveat: the Min filter on SWR3 has a higher CPU load than the others due to the incredibly low latency (1ms).




Hmm, interesting. I was under the impression it was less (as minimum phase normally is). Though I've admittedly never actually checked. I guess they just essentially tell the program to draw more processor power so the EQ can be done as fast as possible? I guess that's like active minimum phase, as opposed to the normal minimum phase which just lets everything get done as quickly as it's ready, but doesn't "push" it. It's sort of a "do everything you can to minimize latency" setting that goes beyond just the normal phase part of the setting.


----------



## johnjen

My own 2¢ on 800's vs LCDx's & HE1K's
  
 They both extended down quite low but the 800's had more definition, inner detail, harmonic content, than the LCDx's
 Not to mention the mids and up.
 This was also my observation about the HE1Ks, this same lack of inner detail and focus.
 Which are my priorities that fit my biases.
  
 Just say'n is all.
  
 JJ


----------



## Ani1000

Well it's too late for me as i already sold my monitors, but i would recommend Neumann kh120a or Genelec 8040 or Focal Solo 6 over a7x, they all blow it away. 


jibzilla said:


> The biggest nightmare I ran into was finding a pair of good sounding active monitors. The a7x's were the best out of many. Maybe I got lucky with my room but $600 of 4 gik basstraps seems to me to be plenty. Fairly easy peasy.
> 
> Maybe if it was really large passive speakers with plenty of power behind them then yeah, but my adam's are just not that loud so I see no reason to go nuts with bass traps.
> 
> Are you sure you are not disappointed with the bass traps? I'm telling you if the speakers were near field not many bass traps were required.


----------



## Yoga

fjrabon said:


> Hmm, interesting. I was under the impression it was less (as minimum phase normally is). Though I've admittedly never actually checked. I guess they just essentially tell the program to draw more processor power so the EQ can be done as fast as possible? I guess that's like active minimum phase, as opposed to the normal minimum phase which just lets everything get done as quickly as it's ready, but doesn't "push" it. It's sort of a "do everything you can to minimize latency" setting that goes beyond just the normal phase part of the setting.


 
  
 Yes exactly, and as well as possible (under the circumstances).


----------



## ColtMrFire

zoom25 said:


> Update on Sonarworks:
> 
> The decrease in resolution is definitely noticeable, especially in the mids and lack of air (correlated). The tonality can be welcoming.
> 
> I can't really describe the sound, other than being glossed over in a way that's *indigestible*.


 
  
 This was my experience as well.  Nice tonality, but I could feel the decrease in a kind of "fidelity" that went missing in my sound.  While it may be more "accurate", I'm not in any hurry to go back to it, as I didn't enjoy it as much as stock.  Like I said before, I may try again when I get a Gumby or Yggy.  FWIW I really enjoyed sonarworks with the HD558... the HD600 on the other hand is already pretty close to neutral, so it didn't do much for me.


----------



## JaZZ

zoom25 said:


> Update on Sonarworks:
> 
> The decrease in resolution is definitely noticeable, especially in the mids and lack of air (correlated). The tonality can be welcoming.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Have you ever been into vinyl? I't's hard to imagine that it would have been digestible for you, since the RIIA curve it implies is a massive filter. Moreover, virtually all recordings you listen to have been equalized in one or the other stage.
  
 I simply think you haven't spent enough time with the new characteristic, and maybe with a not enough open mind. What's also important is to be aware that the now nonlinearities in your sound transducers calling for equalizing represent exactly what you seem to attribute to equalizers: phase distortions.
  
 Well, another possibility (especially considering your extremely sensitive hearing) is that it's essential for you to adapt the SonarWorks curve to your individual HRTF. There are corresponding options exactly meant for that, but I'm not sure if the trial version alows for them. (No own experience with SonarWorks, though.)


----------



## ColtMrFire

edit


----------



## JaZZ

coltmrfire said:


> edit


 
  
 Edited, yeah! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's not my intention to criticize your own sonic preferences, _ColtMrFire_. However,_ Zoom25_'s post was more than just expressing preferences, therefore my comment.


----------



## ColtMrFire

jazz said:


> Edited, yeah!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I accidentally quoted my own post, hence the edit.


----------



## JaZZ

No problem, Mister!


----------



## Ani1000

So...now that the HD800S is out , the original HD800 is considered old news and no one buys it anymore ? 
Is it an axiom on head fi that the HD800S is better than HD800? 
Because i really barley see it getting mentioned outside of this thread.


----------



## JaZZ

ani1000 said:


> So...now that the HD800S is out , the original HD800 is considered old news and no one buys it anymore ?
> Is it an axiom on head fi that the HD800S is better than HD800?
> Because i really barley see it getting mentioned outside of this thread.


 
  
 I don't think that's the case. For those who equalize anyway the «S» is redundant. Moreover, its higher low-frequency distortion makes it less suitable for increasing frequencies below 100 Hz.


----------



## ubs28

Well, EQ lowers sound quality. It's not a free lunch. It's best to fix the problem where it is (at the headphone level without digital processes).


----------



## Yoga

jazz said:


> I don't think that's the case. For those who equalize anyway the «S» is redundant. Moreover, its higher low-frequency distortion makes it less suitable for increasing frequencies below 100 Hz.


 
  
 Yes, better low end on EQ'ed HD800.
  


jazz said:


> Have you ever been into vinyl? I't's hard to imagine that it would have been digestible for you, since the RIIA curve it implies is a massive filter. *Moreover, virtually all recordings you listen to have been equalized in one or the other stage.*
> 
> I simply think you haven't spent enough time with the new characteristic, and maybe with a not enough open mind. What's also important is to be aware that the now nonlinearities in your sound transducers calling for equalizing represent exactly what you seem to attribute to equalizers: phase distortions.


 

 Bolded comment applies to this...
  


ubs28 said:


> Well, EQ lowers sound quality. It's not a free lunch. It's best to fix the problem where it is (at the headphone level without digital processes).


 
  
 Well, with that mindset, every song you hear has a lower sound quality by being mastered. 

 Not all EQ's are created equal, which is why Equilibrium is so highly regarded.


----------



## JaZZ

ubs28 said:


> Well, *EQ lowers sound quality.* It's not a free lunch. It's best to fix the problem where it is (at the headphone level without digital processes).


 
  
 Everything in digital audio formats is a digital process – from recording to sampling to editing to mastering to oversampling (for the indispensable low-pass filtering). So the damage is already done.


----------



## ubs28

yoga said:


> Yes, better low end on EQ'ed HD800.
> 
> 
> Bolded comment applies to this...
> ...


 
  
 Well, the songs being released nowadays have pretty poor sound quality. Also how is compressing the original signal going to improve the sound quality of the original source since it messes up the transients and dynamics of the original source which is what all mixing and mastering engineers are doing? I can even hear some songs clipping.  
  
 It's no suprise that high-quality accoustic recordings without hardly any digital processs sound the best to me.


----------



## JaZZ

ubs28 said:


> Well, the songs being released nowadays have pretty poor sound quality. Also how is compressing the original signal going to improve the sound quality of the original source since it messes up the transients and dynamics of the original source which is what all mixing and mastering engineers are doing? I can even hear some songs clipping.
> 
> It's no suprise that high-quality accoustic recordings without hardly any digital processs sound the best to me.


 
  
 Dynamic compression is not the same as equalizing. And equalizing has been applied since ages, even your best recordings suffer from it.


----------



## ubs28

jazz said:


> Dynamic compression is not the same as equalizing. And equalizing has been applied since ages, even your best recordings suffer from it.


 

 ​That it has been done for ages doesn't mean it is good for the sound quality. I'm just saying that what mastering studio's do is not improving sound quality with all the digital processes they do.


----------



## JaZZ

ubs28 said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > Dynamic compression is not the same as equalizing. And equalizing has been applied since ages, even your best recordings suffer from it.
> ...


 
  
 I just meant to express that there's no reference point for your assumption that equalizing per se does harm to the sound.


----------



## ubs28

jazz said:


> I just meant to express that there's no reference point for your assumption that equalizing per se does harm to the sound.


 
  
 It's not an assumption, because digital filters cannot replicate the perfect impulse response since it requires an infinite filter lenght.
  
 But maybe it goes a bit off-topic since this is the HD 800 thread


----------



## Sorrodje

ubs28 said:


> But maybe it goes a bit off-topic since this is the HD 800 thread


 
  
 Yup. Maybe a dedicated thread to Sonarworks/ Equalization should be more appropriate.


----------



## JaZZ

ubs28 said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > I just meant to express that there's no reference point for your assumption that equalizing per se does harm to the sound.
> ...


 
  
 Slightly off-topic indeed, but after all it's about the merits from equalizing the HD 800.
  
 The infinite tap count is a theoretical requirement for a perfect anti-aliasing filter: It has to be infinitely sharp to guarantee a perfect transient response within the audio band. But no EQ band has nor has to have an infinite Q factor, which would make it inaudible and useless. Furthermore, the inevitable phase distortions accompaying every filter also apply to the nonlinearities in sound transducers: they all come with corresponding phase distortion. A perfect amplitude-response correction would also create a perfectly linear phase response, since inverted filter characteristics lead to inverted phase response – a perfect compensation.


----------



## fjrabon

ubs28 said:


> ​That it has been done for ages doesn't mean it is good for the sound quality. I'm just saying that what mastering studio's do is not improving sound quality with all the digital processes they do.




This is non-sense. Literally every commercially released recording ever made uses EQ. You very simply don't know what you're talking about, and I don't say that lightly. 

Not liking the HD800 with sonarworks is totally fine. 

But the stuff you've said here is wildly misinformed about what EQ does and how often it's used. Every Allison Krause live acoustic album has had BOATLOADS of EQ applied at several different stages. In fact live acoustic recordings tend to be EQd ****more**** not less. If for no other reason than to control feedback and account for idiosyncrasies in room resonances.


----------



## ubs28

fjrabon said:


> This is non-sense. Literally every commercially released recording ever made uses EQ. You very simply don't know what you're talking about, and I don't say that lightly.
> 
> Not liking the HD800 with sonarworks is totally fine.
> 
> But the stuff you've said here is wildly misinformed about what EQ does and how often it's used. Every Allison Krause live acoustic album has had BOATLOADS of EQ applied at several different stages. In fact live acoustic recordings tend to be EQd ****more**** not less. If for no other reason than to control feedback and account for idiosyncrasies in room resonances.


 

 ​I don't know what I'm talking about? Dude, I have programmed various digital filters myself.


----------



## MickeyVee

With all this talk of Sonarworks, I thought I'd give it a try. From their site, it looks simple, right? Wrong.
 Downloaded the trail and then what the heck, how do I get this thing started? After some looking around, what the heck is a DAW? OK, audio recording/mixing SW.
 I really thought that I could instal it, fire up iTines, select my headphones and Go!
 Nope.
 Am I missing something??


----------



## fjrabon

ubs28 said:


> ​I don't what I'm talking about? Dude, I have programmed various digital filters myself.




You don't know what you're talking about in regards to how EQ works and how often it's used. This idea that one single filter in the chain is destroying the sound is kind of bizarre in the light of the fact that every recording ever made has had several, if not dozens or hundreds of other filters applied. 

Every analog EQ, low pass filter, compressor, RIAA filter, etc has the same issues as digital filters. It's just that we don't have control over them. They're mostly essentially forced to be minimum phase. And headphone mods (or super DuPont resonator, annax mod, etc) also are filters, with the same issues. Every time you transfer mediums you necessitate a filter. Mic to mix necessitates a filter, mix to tape necessitates a filter, tape to master necessitates a filter, master to played media necessitates a filter, played media to output necessitates a filter. 

Your original posts seemed to indicate that there is some sort of unfiltered or very minimally filtered music you've heard. That's just not the case unless you're decrying the whole of recorded/amplified music, in which case why are you here? Everything you've ever heard has AT MINIMUM 4 filters applied. And music like that would sound wildly amateurish. Commercial music from 1950-now has at least 8, but often literally hundreds of filters in summation over the whole track. The sheer number of filters isn't even a problem. Modern music doesn't sound the way you decry because of too many filters, but rather over aggressive usage of the filters.


----------



## fjrabon

mickeyvee said:


> With all this talk of Sonarworks, I thought I'd give it a try. From their site, it looks simple, right? Wrong.
> Downloaded the trail and then what the heck, how do I get this thing started? After some looking around, what the heck is a DAW? OK, audio recording/mixing SW.
> I really thought that I could instal it, fire up iTines, select my headphones and Go!
> Nope.
> Am I missing something??




Yes, it needs a host program. Some players can host it directly. But most players (including iTunes) need a vst host that allows you to feed the player to sonarworks and then feed whatever your output is. I use audiohijack. It's expensive for what it is, but by far the most powerful/versatile/clean I've found. A DAW is a type of vst host (amongst other things). 

Remember that sonarworks was primarily created for studio professionals, not audiophiles, so sometimes it sort of assumes knowledge that an average studio worker would have.


----------



## ColtMrFire

The last several pages have been a chore to get through.  With all the technical talk seeming to devolve into pissing contests about who knows more, what's better vs. what isn't, etc, etc... may I suggest creating a separate thread for the massively technical conversations that seem to be happening that exclude those who are not and have no desire to be so technically inclined?  I really enjoyed reading this thread until the gospel of sonarworks started to come up and divide people into two unnecessary camps.


----------



## JaZZ

Unfortunately just pretending that equalizing sucks is never considered an off-topic statement, but technical reasonings around it apparently are prone to that.


----------



## MWSVette

If there are two camps it seems they are more between those who EQ or mod their HD800 to achieve a sound signature they enjoy and those who do not.
  
 As this is mostly do to personal preference there should be no gospel towards one or the other being "better".
  
 The goal is to enjoy your HD800 and the music.  However that is achieved...


----------



## ColtMrFire

jazz said:


> Unfortunately just pretending that equalizing sucks is never considered an off-topic statement


 
  
 Mild derails are fine, they happen all the time and are to be expected, but the tone (pun intended) lately has been tipping toward the dogmatic.  I think the thread needs a reset.


----------



## fjrabon

mwsvette said:


> If there are two camps it seems they are more between those who EQ or mod their HD800 to achieve a sound signature they enjoy those who do not.
> 
> As this is mostly do to personal preference there should be no gospel towards one or the other being "better".
> 
> The goal is to enjoy your HD800 and the music.  However that is achieved...




Yeah, and I have no issue at all with people saying "I simply don't like the sonarworks/SDR, etc adjustments" it's when they give weird reasons that, if unchecked, become head-fi gospel that I feel compelled to jump in. For years EQ was decried around here because of quack theories about "bit-perfect" signal that were the result of knowing just enough to be confused and pass along said confusion as gospel. Never mind that most of these beliefs about EQ came from people simply pushing sliders up, causing digital clipping and then thinking "this must be what non-bitperfect sounds like!"

It's a common tactic (not accusing colt of this btw) to say X misinformed thing and then when a necessarily technical counter argument comes in say "this is getting off topic"

But yeah, I guess this argument has run its course. I won't add on until it comes back up in like 6 months again, the circle of head-fi.


----------



## ColtMrFire

fjrabon said:


> It's a common tactic (not accusing colt of this btw) to say X misinformed thing and then when a necessarily technical counter argument comes in say "this is getting off topic"


 
  
 Since I'm the one who said "this is getting off topic", I think you are accusing me by default. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 In all seriousness, yes, the topic has run its course.  People prefer what they prefer.  I think everyone can all agree the HD800 is an excellent piece of gear and be happy with it in whatever form you choose to listen to it, as there are myriad,


----------



## MWSVette

fjrabon said:


> Yeah, and I have no issue at all with people saying "I simply don't like the sonarworks/SDR, etc adjustments" it's when they give weird reasons that, if unchecked, become head-fi gospel that I feel compelled to jump in. For years EQ was decried around here because of quack theories about "bit-perfect" signal that were the result of knowing just enough to be confused and pass along said confusion as gospel. Never mind that most of these beliefs about EQ came from people simply pushing sliders up, causing digital clipping and then thinking "this must be what non-bitperfect sounds like!"
> 
> It's a common tactic (not accusing colt of this btw) to say X misinformed thing and then when a necessarily technical counter argument comes in say "this is getting off topic"
> 
> But yeah, I guess this argument has run its course. I won't add on *until it comes back up in like 6 months* again, the circle of head-fi.


 
  
 If it takes that long to come back up...  lol


----------



## Zoom25

mickeyvee said:


> With all this talk of Sonarworks, I thought I'd give it a try. From their site, it looks simple, right? Wrong.
> Downloaded the trail and then what the heck, how do I get this thing started? After some looking around, what the heck is a DAW? OK, audio recording/mixing SW.
> I really thought that I could instal it, fire up iTines, select my headphones and Go!
> Nope.
> Am I missing something??


 
  
 Open up Audirvana Plus and at the top click "Audirvana Plus". Next go to "Preferences" from the menu. Then go to the "Audio Units" window. Click "Use AudioUnits effect." Then select Sonarworks from the list. After that, you can configure the window. Make sure to select the "Realtime" option if you want to change and hear the effects with the music playing. When you have it down to your preferences, uncheck it again.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I am starting to realize just how vital the source is for these headphones.  My Modi MB has been out of commission the past several days due to the wall wart emitting a humming/buzzing sound.  I realized this is what was giving me all the problems earlier.  Schiit sent a new wall wart but it didn't fix anything, still humming, so I am waiting to hear back as to what to do next.
  
 So I've been running some different sources in the meantime.  The headphone jack out of my laptop isn't terrible.  Not great, but it's clearly a massive step down in quality from Jotun/Mimby.  I've been using this connection to watch movies though, and for that purpose it's not bad.
  
 The CD player I was using to connect to Mimby has a hum in the right channel RCA jack, so I couldn't use it's internal DAC.  What I heard out of the left channel though was the audio equivalent of screeching cats... terrible quality I wouldn't want to spend any time with.
  
 Next, I hooked up the shared Bluray player from our living room. It's internal DAC was actually decent at first.  But over time I grew more and more dissatisfied with it.  It was sterile, dry, with over-emphasized treble... basically all the qualities the HD800 is accused of having from inadequate sources.  After a couple days I couldn't bare to listen anymore.  Back to the living room it went.
  
 I tried the headphone out of my LG cell phone with Spotify.  Weak sauce in every aspect.  Just limp and not nearly enough power for the HD800.  
  
 There was an old Bose Wave Radio/CD player laying around, so I cleaned the laser and hooked it up to the Jotunheim.  Being Bose, I expected nothing less than disaster.  What I heard was surprisingly decent, almost good.  There was air/dimension, a pleasing tonality, and the sound overall was extremely SMOOTH... almost too smooth in fact.  After listening for a day or so, I realized this smoothness resulted in a haze/reduction in clarity/resolution.  It made the sound almost waxy and generic.  I'm hesitant to keep listening as I've been spoiled by the organic realness and high resolution of the Mimby.
  
 So until I get this sorted out with Schiit, I'm probably just going to take a break from listening to music.  I may listen here and there, but the inadequacies of the sources is going to make that difficult.  So yes, the HD800 is extremely picky with DACs, just as much as the amp.


----------



## cycle53x12

Thanks for that info on the Audivana setup. I also did not know what a DAW was either. I wish they would at least have some instructions on how to set up Sonar works.
 MaybeI am a little slow, but would have never looked in the Audiivana preferences window to find this Software. Now to see if I like it.


----------



## Yoga

While this topic can sway a 'tad' there is some valuable information within the responses. A technical/professional discussion doesn't suddenly make those involved arrogant, it's just usually more direct than standard audiophile chat as it becomes objective rather than subjective. Nature of the beast.

 Best XKCD ever:



 None of us are immune to this, but ultimately it's good to remember people are only trying to help each other out.

 BTW - any questions about using SWR3 are best asked in the dedicated thread:
  
Sonarworks Headphone Calibration software


----------



## Zoom25

Tried it again this morning with a fresh head. The issues are still there. Sorry in my last post I wasn't as clear. I was wiped.
  
 The tonality isn't the issue for me. I've used very dark and bright headphones in the past, so I'm not bothered by the lack of air thing that was earlier implied. The artifacts of the linear filter is definitely noticeable. As a whole, for example, I flat out cannot hit the deepest bass frequencies with Sonarworks. I think Audirvana Plus by itself goes right around there (maybe a bit deep). Need the BDP-1 for the solidarity in the deepest regions. I've very familiar with it on both headphones and speakers through BDP-1. Most Bryston BDP users will report something similar.
  
 The transients also took a hit, but in a way that didn't feel right. I have the HD 598 beside me which sounds sloppy compared to HD 800, but it sounds sloppy in a natural way. That was the point I was trying to make. I've done some searching and seem there are others as well that have recorded this unnatural feel to it.
  
 Having the experience of BDP-1 probably made me more sensitive to the tradeoffs that Sonarworks brings. If I never heard the BDP-1, I think the Sonarworks wouldn't have bothered me. I'll try it out some more with HD 800. I also have the KRK KNS 8400 and the HD 598 that I want to try out.


----------



## ColtMrFire

zoom25 said:


> The transients also took a hit, but in a way that didn't feel right. I have the HD 598 beside me which sounds sloppy compared to HD 800, but it sounds sloppy in a natural way. That was the point I was trying to make. I've done some searching and seem there are others as well that have recorded this unnatural feel to it.


 
  
 I know what you're talking about as I used to have SW with the HD558, which has the same drivers as the 598, just a piece of damping(?) material that if removed pretty much gets you the same sound.  SW did wonders for the 558, but for whatever reason I did not have the same reaction to the 800 curve after extended listening.  Glad others seem to have more enjoyment with it though.


----------



## fjrabon

zoom25 said:


> The artifacts of the linear filter is definitely noticeable. As a whole, for example, I flat out cannot hit the deepest bass frequencies with Sonarworks.




I dont want to argue what you're hearing and if sonarworks doesn't work for you, fine, we all have different preferences there. I just want to clarify that there is no "linear filter" in sonarworks. Sonarworks, like all EQ, is a filter. Linear/minimum/mixed is a property OF filters, but aren't filters themselves. Saying "I don't like the filter in sonarworks" is like saying "I don't like the food in peanuts."

I guess maybe you're talking about pre-ringing? It shouldn't be technically audible in most applications, but if it's bothering you then it's bothering you.


----------



## Zoom25

fjrabon said:


> I dont want to argue what you're hearing and if sonarworks doesn't work for you, fine, we all have different preferences there. I just want to clarify that there is no "linear filter" in sonarworks. Sonarworks, like all EQ, is a filter. Linear/minimum/mixed is a property OF filters, but aren't filters themselves. Saying "I don't like the filter in sonarworks" is like saying "I don't like the food in peanuts."
> 
> I guess maybe you're talking about pre-ringing? It shouldn't be technically audible in most applications, but if it's bothering you then it's bothering you.


 

 Yeah that's what I meant and am aware of it. Sorry, posting back and forth all over the place. Haven't thrown in the towel yet...


----------



## cycle53x12

So now that I have it setup in Audrivana, I can really hear a nice difference, really lowered the high end. I think the HD800 sounds really  nice and natural now. Going to turn it off and try it again and make sure I am really hearing the difference. So far it is less fatiguing if the makes sense.


----------



## MickeyVee

Thank you! Now that I've got it working, will give it some the same consideration as if I got a new headphone.
  
 Quote:


zoom25 said:


> Open up Audirvana Plus and at the top click "Audirvana Plus". Next go to "Preferences" from the menu. Then go to the "Audio Units" window. Click "Use AudioUnits effect." Then select Sonarworks from the list. After that, you can configure the window. Make sure to select the "Realtime" option if you want to change and hear the effects with the music playing. When you have it down to your preferences, uncheck it again.


----------



## MickeyVee

With realtime turned on, you can work it live white listening.  Hit the blue calibration button to bypass.  I have Before, Target and Correction turned on the Graph.
 The custom is kind of interesting also. Playing with a -3b tilt and +2b bass boost to brig back a little bit of the top end.
  
  
 Not sure that talking Sonarworks this is derailing the thread.  Don't care about the technicalities but it was a great help on this thread getting it working. A few pages back I posted that I love my HD800 pretty much un-modded with a bass boost of +2.5 dB via my McIntosh.  As much as I love them un-modded, I'm open to trying other 'enhancements', physical or electronic.  No different than talking cables, EQ and software.  I learn something every time.  May or may not be for me but the process is fun. Happy Listening!
  
 Quote:


cycle53x12 said:


> So now that I have it setup in Audrivana, I can really hear a nice difference, really lowered the high end. I think the HD800 sounds really  nice and natural now. Going to turn it off and try it again and make sure I am really hearing the difference. So far it is less fatiguing if the makes sense.


----------



## cycle53x12

Thanks for the tip.


----------



## Zoom25

mickeyvee said:


>





> Thank you! Now that I've got it working, will give it some the same consideration as if I got a new headphone.


 

 You're welcome. I'm now on the Mixed phase. This seems more agreeable for me over linear phase. This could work out.
  


> As much as I love them un-modded, I'm open to trying other 'enhancements', physical or electronic.  No different than talking cables, EQ and software.  I learn something every time.  May or may not be for me but the process is fun. Happy Listening!


 
 Same.


----------



## jibzilla

ani1000 said:


> Well it's too late for me as i already sold my monitors, but i would recommend Neumann kh120a or Genelec 8040 or Focal Solo 6 over a7x, they all blow it away.


 
  
 I have not tried the Neuman's but I have tried the Genelec and Focal's you speak of. I will take the adam's by quite a margin but to each his own. Now any thing else in the adam Ax lineup I'm not a fan of. A3x, 5x, 8x, sub7, sub10 did not do it for me. I will admit that.


----------



## Yoga

Make sure you have Avoid Clipping enabled. Post over here if you have any questions:

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/762969/sonarworks-headphone-calibration-software/
  
 Enjoy :¬)


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

coltmrfire said:


> The last several pages have been a chore to get through.  With all the technical talk seeming to devolve into pissing contests about who knows more, what's better vs. what isn't, etc, etc... may I suggest creating a separate thread for the massively technical conversations that seem to be happening that exclude those who are not and have no desire to be so technically inclined?  I really enjoyed reading this thread until the gospel of sonarworks started to come up and divide people into two unnecessary camps.




+1

I'm glad we had the digital eq conversation (even if it went on too long), but if we could limit it to another thread for the next six months or so that would be much appreciated. I think most people learned what they could and have tuned out. 

I think I'll put together another k1000 comparison for symphonic and choral music. Any requests?


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> +1
> 
> I'm glad we had the digital eq conversation (even if it went on too long), but if we could limit it to another thread for the next six months or so that would be much appreciated. I think most people learned what they could and have tuned out.
> 
> I think I'll put together another k1000 comparison for symphonic and choral music. Any requests?


 

 +2
 and
 Late Romantic and Impressionist symphonic works please.


----------



## johnjen

> Originally Posted by *Zoom25* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> snip
> …I flat out cannot hit the deepest bass frequencies with Sonarworks.
> snip


 
 Have you examined the compensation curve for the 800's?
  
 If so, you will notice that their compensation quits at ≈35Hz and below.
 This characteristic is applied to all of their curves for several reasons.
  
 They are marketing Ref3 to the pro audio market (ie. studios), not the audiophools market.
 Pro Audio doesn't need nor want to deal with this portion of the FR spectrum for many reasons, and that is why they limit the compensation below 35Hz.
  
 If you want the very bottom end to come up and be on par with the rest of the FR spectrum, other means need to be employed.
 That is why I requested the no limits curve for the 800 and 650, because us audiophools DO want the extreme bottom end to be brought back up on par with the rest of the audio spectrum.
  
 Even if that can cause problems and overloads, clipping, make gear misbehave etc.
  
 JJ


----------



## spellking

Hi everyone, on the subject of EQs, I was wondering: what is your general opinion of DSP like Dolby Headphones? As something new, I tried installing the Dolby Headphones plugin to my foobar2000 player, and on my HD800S the difference is *very* obvious. Soundstage sounds _astoundingly_ huge, especially with native 5.1 files, but I can't help but feel that the music sounds less *natural* in terms of tone or timbre. Has anyone else experimented with these sorts of "surround" plugins?
 For those who'd like to follow what I've tried so far, I referenced mostly this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/447089/5-1-headphone-experience-foobar-configuration-for-all-stereo-music-files
 I followed the instructions there, but with just one difference: I installed and activated Dolby headphone without configuring Channel Mixer, which I felt brought an unacceptable amount of distortion to the music.


----------



## Zoom25

johnjen said:


> *Have you examined the compensation curve for the 800's?*
> 
> If so, you will notice that their compensation quits at ≈35Hz and below.
> This characteristic is applied to all of their curves for several reasons.
> ...


 
  
 Not fully. I've been using the mixed filter so far and trying to listen for extended period of time at same settings to get more used to it. I'm not worrying about the bass extension for now. However, I will note that when I run Audirvana Plus straight without any audio units or any signal alternation, it still doesn't get there like the BDP-1. The Bryston really brings in that last bit because of how tight and clean the sound is across the range.
  
 I think next I'll look for system wide implementation on Mac, especially for use with video and thus minimal latency. What's the go to solution here that can maintain sound quality? I keep hearing Audio Hijack from time to time?


----------



## Yoga

zoom25 said:


> I think next I'll look for system wide implementation on Mac, especially for use with video and thus minimal latency. What's the go to solution here that can maintain sound quality? I keep hearing *Audio Hijack* from time to time?


 

 That's the one. Fantastic application.


----------



## listen4joy

someone tried the EQ  Sonarworks with SDR mod? can i get something more? because SDR mod really does good job. anyway i never EQ anything, if i will use it with jriver i just need to load it and play? or i should play and tweak it more for better results?


----------



## Yoga

listen4joy said:


> someone tried the EQ  Sonarworks with SDR mod? can i get something more? because SDR mod really does good job. anyway i never EQ anything, if i will use it with jriver i just need to load it and play? or i should play and tweak it more for better results?


 

 Sonarworks won't work as intended with the mod. One or the other. You can however send your modded HD800 in and have a custom profile created.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Sonarworks is great for pop music, but I find for something like Bernstein's Liebestod, the airiness of the stock HD800 is just as appealing. The flavorers and the holy grail-ers have been arguing forever but if you listen to classical music and some other genre, classical music is going to tolerate, and likely demand, a brighter can every day of the week.
  
 For the symphonic comparison, I'm thinking something along these lines
  
 - Haydn - one of the London symphonies
 - Mozart - Symphony 40, first mov't
 - Beethoven - Symphony nos. 5, 6, 7 with Furtwangler, Harnoncourt (or Gardiner, or Jacobs), and perhaps Thielemann or some other non-period-instrument maestro
 - Schubert 8 (first mov't) and 9 (finale)
 - Schumann 3 or 4
 - Brahms - first piano concerto (Gilels) and Symphony No. 3 (Karajan)
 - Bruckner 9
 - Mahler 5
  
 For choral
 - Vivaldi's Gloria
 - some excerpt from the Mass in B Minor
 - ditto Mozart's requiem
 - Missa Solemnis
 - Verdi's requiem


----------



## fjrabon

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Sonarworks is great for pop music, but I find for something like Bernstein's Liebestod, the airiness of the stock HD800 is just as appealing. The flavorers and the holy grail-ers have been arguing forever but if you listen to classical music and some other genre, classical music is going to tolerate, and likely demand, a brighter can every day of the week.


 
 not arguing about sonarworks, but specifically classical demanding "bright" headphones.  To me, a bright headphone with classical is a complete no-go.  It loses the body of the lower timbre instruments, and for me it can make violins especially unbearable in their higher registers.  To me, classical demands a balanced can.  Now, classical has been amazing since I added the subpac in, because it allows a full experience of the low end, without needing it to be 100% carried by the headphone, which is then free to "roll off" the bass a bit.  About the only music I can bear a bright headphone is organ music, but even then I prefer a flat headphone to get the body of the lower register of the organ.  Again, YMMV, etc.  Just stating how I feel about headphone demands of classical.  To me, the only thing classical demands that other music doesn't is better separation and imaging accuracy.  SOme classical music doesn't need anything below 100Hz, because most classical music just doesn't contain those frequencies.  But when those frequencies are called upon in classical music, they tend to be very important and need to have the proper power to give the composer's intended effect. (think also sprach zarathustra, without proper power in the bass in that prelude, the piece loses ALL impact and emotion).
  
 But then again, I think I'm just different in this regard.  I tend to prefer a single frequency response for all my music, rather than different frequency responses for different genres.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Why does SW make random popping sounds (esp when it gets loud)? It's really annoying. Am I doing something wrong?


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> ... For the symphonic comparison, I'm thinking something along these lines
> 
> - Haydn - one of the London symphonies
> - Mozart - Symphony 40, first mov't
> ...


 
  
 It's all good.


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Why does SW make random popping sounds (esp when it gets loud)? It's really annoying. Am I doing something wrong?


 
  
 Is it the SW or is the headphone possibly being over driven on loud dynamic sections?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

It's perfectly fine when I send it straight to the Bifrost. this only happens—sometimes—going though sonar works (and Pedalboard, by extension). it's intermittent but truly execrable.


----------



## Zoom25

yoga said:


> That's the one. Fantastic application.


 

 Thanks. This is how I have it setup. Anything I should know or to tweak?


----------



## fjrabon

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Why does SW make random popping sounds (esp when it gets loud)? It's really annoying. Am I doing something wrong?


 

 usually this means it needs more buffer allocated to it or its host program, or your processor is hitting a wall.


----------



## fjrabon

zoom25 said:


> Thanks. This is how I have it setup. Anything I should know or to tweak?


 

 There's nothing else you need, per se.  However, at this point it is up to you and how intense you want to go with it.  Here's one of my more extreme setups:


 This has sonarworks, mid-side (which allows you to widen the soundstage and deepen the sides), CanOpener (advanced crossfeed), an out for my subpac that does away with the sonarworks adjustment in the bass by inverting the EQ sonarworks uses down there (the path that ends with the Schiit Fulla), then for the main HD800 line it does all of that minus the 10 band EQ, but with individual L/R EQ adjustments for my inner ear canal resonances (my ears have a resonance at 3.7kHz, and it's stronger in my right ear, thus the individual side adjustments), then finally a recorder at the end, so I can record to mp3 and have sonarworks and canopener adjusted tracks to use for portable.  But don't worry, it doesn't need all that, and I actually pretty rarely use this complicated of a setup.  This is mostly for when my ears are a bit fatigued and I"m finding 3.7kHz particularly grating.  Otherwise I tend to use this:
  


 This is by far my go to setup.  It has a bit extra fidelity vs the other setup since it doesn't have an extra round of EQ after the primary DSP chain.  However, the other setup can be easier to listen to when my ears are fatigued.  That's one of the great features of AudioHijack is that it allows you to create as many different custom profiles as you want.  You can create profiles for different setups, different headphones, and even different genres or different listening moods.


----------



## johnjen

zoom25 said:


> Not fully. I've been using the mixed filter so far and trying to listen for extended period of time at same settings to get more used to it. I'm not worrying about the bass extension for now. However, I will note that when I run Audirvana Plus straight without any audio units or any signal alternation, it still doesn't get there like the BDP-1. The Bryston really brings in that last bit because of how tight and clean the sound is across the range.
> 
> I think next I'll look for system wide implementation on Mac, especially for use with video and thus minimal latency. What's the go to solution here that can maintain sound quality? I keep hearing Audio Hijack from time to time?


 
 I use Jriver Media Center with its DSP stack for my 800's with my music collection.
 I also have Audio Hijack that I use for other audio setups (browser, and speech based audio inputs, etc.).
  
 One aspect to pay attention to in the Ref3 plugin are the clipping indicators, both input and output.
 If either of them show red instead of green the SQ will suffer until the source of the clipping is dealt with.
 And I found the linear filter phase type sounded best for me and my setup.
 And since I only playback music and have no concern about latency, that was the 'best' choice for me.
  
 JJ


----------



## Zoom25

fjrabon said:


> There's nothing else you need, per se.  However, at this point it is up to you and how intense you want to go with it.  Here's one of my more extreme setups:
> 
> 
> This has sonarworks, mid-side (which allows you to widen the soundstage and deepen the sides), CanOpener (advanced crossfeed), an out for my subpac that does away with the sonarworks adjustment in the bass by inverting the EQ sonarworks uses down there (the path that ends with the Schiit Fulla), then for the main HD800 line it does all of that minus the 10 band EQ, but with individual L/R EQ adjustments for my inner ear canal resonances (my ears have a resonance at 3.7kHz, and it's stronger in my right ear, thus the individual side adjustments), then finally a recorder at the end, so I can record to mp3 and have sonarworks and canopener adjusted tracks to use for portable.  But don't worry, it doesn't need all that, and I actually pretty rarely use this complicated of a setup.  This is mostly for when my ears are a bit fatigued and I"m finding 3.7kHz particularly grating.  Otherwise I tend to use this:
> ...


 
  
 Thanks. I'll revisit this if I need more. Right now just trying to put mileage on standard settings.


----------



## fjrabon

zoom25 said:


> Thanks. I'll revisit this if I need more. Right now just trying to put mileage on standard settings.


 

 the only other thing you'd want to do is make sure under preferences of audiohijack you have "more reliable" checked.  this will reduce instances of "popping" that some people experience.


----------



## Zoom25

fjrabon said:


> the only other thing you'd want to do is make sure under preferences of audiohijack you have "more reliable" checked.  this will reduce instances of "popping" that some people experience.


 

 Thanks.


----------



## Zoom25

johnjen said:


> I use Jriver Media Center with its DSP stack for my 800's with my music collection.
> I also have Audio Hijack that I use for other audio setups (browser, and speech based audio inputs, etc.).
> 
> *One aspect to pay attention to in the Ref3 plugin are the clipping indicators, both input and output.*
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, I take active care of those. No problems yet.
  
I can hear the benefits and disadvantages of both as far as sound quality goes (completely ignoring latency issues). I'll be doing more extended testing, but the pre-ringing effects are quite obvious to me. The lack of punch is very noticeable. Glad it's working out for you though!


----------



## mrmarano

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Sonarworks is great for pop music, but I find for something like Bernstein's Liebestod, the airiness of the stock HD800 is just as appealing. The flavorers and the holy grail-ers have been arguing forever but if you listen to classical music and some other genre, classical music is going to tolerate, and likely demand, a brighter can every day of the week.
> 
> [...]
> 
> ...


 
  
 Humbly suggest adding Sergei Rachmaninov's _Vespers _(_All Night Vigil_), particularly the Vladislav Chernushenko version (1992; haven't heard 1986). Certain of the Russian choruses include octavists - or male vocalists capable of at least a full octave below basso/basso profundo - heard primarily in parts 2 and 5. The 1965 Alexander Sveshnikov version is still considered the Ur Text of this piece, but the recording does show its age (if you can find a good copy). Either performance is ear-opening.


----------



## Yoga

zoom25 said:


> Thanks. This is how I have it setup. Anything I should know or to tweak?


 
  
 That's all you need. I prefer to route specific apps to SWR3 rather than system audio however to keep it more efficient. Also works better if you're using a DAW. Simply toggle (right click) the app on that you want to use.


----------



## Egoquaero

Hi guys!
 I've just bought the HD800! (still delivery phase though )
 Cambridge CXA60 will be the amplifier with DAC integrated (originally bought to drive my pair of Tannoy XT6F) used to drive the headphones for now. They say it's a pretty good DAC as well. Now I just don't know how good.
  
 Music is played by my Macbook Pro 2016 that is digitally connected to the Cambridge using toslink connection (through Behringer UCA202).
 1) On a scale from 0 to 100, how much of the Sennheiser HD800 sound quality capabilities I'll be able to unlock/enjoy using my current system?
 2) Consider now that I'm able to buy another amp/dac system. What should I pay for a dac/amp system in order to unlock a 95%?
 3) How's the Chord Mojo? Is it able to unlock a 90% of HD Sennheiser capabilities?
  
  
 Thank you so much for your help, guys!
 Have a nice day!
  
 Ego


----------



## JaZZ

Welcome to Head-Fi, Ego!
  
 Maybe you'll like the HD 800 with your Cambridge... so no need to hurry with another, better source/amp.
  
 To answer question 3: The Mojo will provide the best sound you can get for the money – if you want maximum accuracy – and from the electrical preconditions is already an almost ideal partner in the function of the amp. That said, it doesn't have a dedicated amp built in, and that's even one of its greatest strengths: The line-out stage is designed for driving headphones as well, so one complete amplification stage is renounced, in the interest of signal accuracy. Moreover its DAC, virtually identical to the Hugo's, is one of the most technical advanced. Although I like the Hugo slightly better, I think the Mojo is an excellent match with the HD 800.
  
 Now how much sound quality does it sacrifice compared to the DAVE? Impossible to tell in numbers, but I'm sure you won't be disappointed. As to unlocking the HD 800's qualities: It's worth to occupy yourself with equalizing. No headphone is neutral and flat, and the HD 800 is no exception. Here's a link that may be inspiring. Equalizing largely frees you from component synergy, so you may be able to choose the most accurate and transparent source/amp instead of one making up for the HD 800's treble emphasis and decreasing low bass.
  
 Good luck, and enjoy!


----------



## Ani1000

This is what I don't understand about the Mojo with HD800. 
On the one hand I read all the time the HD800 is hard to drive and needs an uber amp to sound good. 
On the other hand the Mojo doesn't really have a *real* amp
Can anyone clarify? 
Thanks.


----------



## Me x3

ani1000 said:


> This is what I don't understand about the Mojo with HD800.
> On the one hand I read all the time the HD800 is hard to drive and needs an uber amp to sound good.
> On the other hand the Mojo doesn't really have a *real* amp
> Can anyone clarify?
> Thanks.


 

 HD800 is easy to drive.
 Easier than AKG K702 / DT880 (250 Ohm) / Tesla T1 / HE-560 / ...


----------



## Yoga

me x3 said:


> HD800 is easy to drive.
> Easier than AKG K702 / DT880 (250 Ohm) / Tesla T1 / HE-560 / ...


 

 That doesn't make the HD800 easy to drive. It makes it easier than some really hard to drive headphones :¬)

 You can just as easily compare them to the LCD's and say how hard they are to drive.


----------



## fjrabon

ani1000 said:


> This is what I don't understand about the Mojo with HD800.
> On the one hand I read all the time the HD800 is hard to drive and needs an uber amp to sound good.
> On the other hand the Mojo doesn't really have a *real* amp
> Can anyone clarify?
> Thanks.


 

 The HD800 is picky about the quality of the amp in terms of clarity, high order harmonic distortion, transient response, instantaneously available current, channel separation, phase, retention of micro-detail and several other measures of amp QUALITY.  However, the HD800 doesn't need much pure power, as despite its high impedance, it has pretty high efficiency.


----------



## JaZZ

ani1000 said:


> This is what I don't understand about the Mojo with HD800.
> On the one hand I read all the time* the HD800 is hard to drive and needs an uber amp to sound good.*
> On the other hand the Mojo doesn't really have a *real* amp
> Can anyone clarify?
> Thanks.


 
  
 That urban legend has its origin in the fact that the HD 800 sounds relatively bright and lean with a neutral amp, so Head-Fiers try to combine it with warm and full sounding amps and with tricks such as high output impedance (equalizing via amplifier colorations). However, the HD 800 with its high efficiency is an easy load for every amp, apart from some portables (battery power is not the best precondition for high load impedances). The Mojo on the other hand is designed for a wide variety of headphones.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

With sonar works, I expect Magni 2 could drive it, even sans uber.


----------



## Egoquaero

@JaZZ: thanks mate for your detailed answer!
  
 Other 2 questions:
 1) Can the Chord Mojo drive my Tannoy XT6F speakers as well? (What I intend to do is computer output --> Mojo --> Cambridge CXA60. Linking Mojo and Cambridge with 3.5 audio jack to rca cable)
 2) How different would the sound be in comparison with what I hear now from my current system (Cambridge CXA60 + Tannoy XT6F)?
  
 Cheers


----------



## x RELIC x

egoquaero said:


> @JaZZ: thanks mate for your detailed answer!
> 
> Other 2 questions:
> 1) Can the Chord Mojo drive my Tannoy XT6F speakers as well? (What I intend to do is computer output --> Mojo --> Cambridge CXA60. Linking Mojo and Cambridge with 3.5 audio jack to rca cable)
> ...




1. Um, no, not a chance. It's a device meant to power headphones, not speakers that have a rating of 25 - 150W range spec. Max ouput from the Mojo in to 32 Ohms is 600*mW*. No way the Mojo will drive them. 

Apologies, I completely misread your post. Yes, you can do this.

2. Not the same class of product. You can feed the Cambridge power amp the analogue signal from the Mojo to replace the internal DAC (Cambridge CXA60 RCA input), but you'll need the Cambridge amp for driving the speakers. Again, apologies.


----------



## Me x3

yoga said:


> That doesn't make the HD800 easy to drive. It makes it easier than some really hard to drive headphones :¬)
> 
> You can just as easily compare them to the LCD's and say how hard they are to drive.


 

 Easy and hard are always relative terms, that's granted.
 What I mean is that HD800 is easy to drive for most headphone amps and DAC/Amps in the market today.
 Especially for moderate/healthy listening levels. Even a tiny Fulla 2 has more power than needed.
  
 I've even used the HD800 with a FiiO Q1, and it was powerful enough for my preferences.
 Never had the need of switching my Asgard 2 to high gain when using HD800.
  
 I wouldn't say DT880 Pro is really hard to drive either. I've used them plugged directly into my relatively high grade Asus N-Series for movies with nice results.
  
 Ultimate detail and perfect pairing is a different story, but doesn't change the fact that HD800 needs 1.5 Vrms for 105dB SPL which is louder than most of us normally go.
  


fjrabon said:


> The HD800 is picky about the quality of the amp in terms of clarity, high order harmonic distortion, transient response, instantaneously available current, channel separation, phase, retention of micro-detail and several other measures of amp QUALITY.  However, the HD800 doesn't need much pure power, as despite its high impedance, it has pretty high efficiency.


 
  
 I have a different perspective on some aspects. Since HD800 is extremely clear, too much for some people, I find it to be quite forgiving with regards to amp clarity.
 More so, some people tend to prefer the HD800 with a less clear amplifier because they find it more musical, fluid and involving.
 On the other hand, more muffled headphones sometimes demand a very clean amp to sound good.
 In other words, loosing some upper treble clarity on HD800 is less of a problem than loosing upper treble clarity on the already rolled off HD650.
  
 High order harmonic distortion, yes but I don't see how HD800 could be more picky about this than most other quality headphones around.
 Harmonic distortion tends to be extremely low on most SS amps this days anyway.
  
 Being a high impedance headphone, HD800 needs very little current, an amp that can not keep track feeding HD800 with the needed current would be a terrible amp for K702 or HE560.
  
 I can't really find enough solid arguments to think that HD800 is a 'picky' headphone.
 I think the picky thing comes from the fact that it has little bass and overly boosted lower treble, for most recordings and people's preference.
 And because HD800 owners normally prefer to say 'picky' instead of 'slightly coloured'.


----------



## Zoom25

I highly recommend Audirvana Plus users to read this:
  
post #539
  
 Essentially, due to OS upgrade to Sierra, I was forced to turn Direct Mode OFF. As a results, the Sonarworks experience got a lot better. The linear mode sounds excellent now without the pre-ringing and lack of punch. In fact quite the opposite. Very tight image and bass that goes really deep. Mids are clearer than before and punches in all the right places. Might be worth checking out even if you don't use Sonarworks.


----------



## murphythecat

for anyone who own the hd800 but find it too bright. the superdupont resonator is amazing.
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sennheiser-hd-800-s-tweaked-and-delightfuland-french-diy-response-page-2#5FboUCfQ8R3E5IpL.97
  
  
 I just installed mine today and ive been listeing all day. it definitelly removed the most nasty edge that was colouring everything. its still a bright headphone, and I still use bass boost via my ifi ican, but the superdupont resonator really helps to tame that 6khz peak.
 I honestly couldnt live with the hd800 stock and went back to my hd650, but after installing the SDR, I really begin to see just how good the hd800 are.


----------



## Yoga

Going to send my HD800 in for individual Sonarworks calibration at the end of next week. Looking forward to hearing them at their absolute best!


----------



## Zoom25

yoga said:


> Going to send my HD800 in for individual Sonarworks calibration at the end of next week. Looking forward to hearing them at their absolute best!


 

 Are you going to replace the pads and then send them or as is? I was thinking that it's probably not good to send absolutely new earpads as they come a bit stiff...but just how much should they be used. Hmm, I'm probably overthinking this.


----------



## Yoga

zoom25 said:


> Are you going to replace the pads and then send them or as is? I was thinking that it's probably not good to send absolutely new earpads as they come a bit stiff...but just how much should they be used. Hmm, I'm probably overthinking this.


 

 I'm not worried about the pads to be honest, they're low profile compared to others and won't compress much at all. I'm using monitors most of the day so it'll take considerable time before they wear to the point of needing a replacement. Even then, it doesn't take very long to break a new set of pads in (if I recall correctly).


----------



## jamesino

I'm currently using Modi 1 > Bottlehead Crack + Speedball > HD 650 and am thinking of picking up a used HD 800.
  
 I do prefer more of an "analytical" listening experience with more details in the treble and vocal range frequencies. I picked up a Grado SR80 and have been using it with a Modi 1 > Magni 1 and preferred the upper ranges of the SR80 relative to the HD650, although did not appreciate the loss of midrange. I'm not much of a bass head, and prefer nothing more than an accurate bass rendition.
  
 Unfortunately, I won't have the money to upgrade the amp for a while. Would the HD 800 be a good upgrade for me even with the BHC + Speedball (which I know is not the optimal pairing for the HD 800)?
  
 From what I've read so far, it sounds like I'll lose some of the bass of the HD 650, but gain transparency, detail, and treble. Which one would be better in the midrange?


----------



## fjrabon

jamesino said:


> I'm currently using Modi 1 > Bottlehead Crack + Speedball > HD 650 and am thinking of picking up a used HD 800.
> 
> I do prefer more of an "analytical" listening experience with more details in the treble and vocal range frequencies. I picked up a Grado SR80 and have been using it with a Modi 1 > Magni 1 and preferred the upper ranges of the SR80 relative to the HD650, although did not appreciate the loss of midrange. I'm not much of a bass head, and prefer nothing more than an accurate bass rendition.
> 
> ...




Their midranges are just different more than one is better or worse. The HD650 has a "richer" midrange, owing to the longer decay in the impulse response and the greater amount of 2nd harmonic distortion. The HD800 will have a more life like and transparent midrange.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I would upgrade Modi before upgrading the amp. HD800 will schiit all over it—Mimby is where you want to go, and Bimby if you can afford it.


----------



## ColtMrFire

To reiterate what Bosie said, there's no reason to buy an HD800 and not have the Modi Multibit (Mimby)... it's only $250 and is going to get you in the same ballpark as the much more expensive multibit DACs, which is unheard of with any other company.  Having compared the Yggy and Mimby, I can tell you Mimby is only a _slightly_ underachieving sibling.  Mimby feeds the HD800 all the space, detail, imagining and instrument timbre it loves to present.  And it schiits all over the Modi 1.


----------



## jamesino

Thanks for the advice; the Modi Multibit is indeed something I was planning to get in the near future. But strictly in terms of the amp (BHC + Speedball), even though it's not ideal, will it still drive the HD 800 decently well such that I'll notice an improvement over the HD 650 (which is classically known for its synergy with the BHC + SB)?


----------



## DavidA

jamesino said:


> I'm currently using Modi 1 > Bottlehead Crack + Speedball > HD 650 and am thinking of picking up a used HD 800.
> 
> I do prefer more of an "analytical" listening experience with more details in the treble and vocal range frequencies. I picked up a Grado SR80 and have been using it with a Modi 1 > Magni 1 and preferred the upper ranges of the SR80 relative to the HD650, although did not appreciate the loss of midrange. I'm not much of a bass head, and prefer nothing more than an accurate bass rendition.
> 
> ...


 
 BH Crack + HD800 is a good pairing but it might also depend on the tubes that you use.
  
 Magni and SR series Grado not a good pairing when I had a Magni, most Grado headphones pair better with a hybrid amp from my experiences so far.
  
 Agree with @fjrabon on just a different sound signature, not better or worse


----------



## Rozenberg

jamesino said:


> Thanks for the advice; the Modi Multibit is indeed something I was planning to get in the near future. But strictly in terms of the amp (BHC + Speedball), even though it's not ideal, will it still drive the HD 800 decently well such that I'll notice an improvement over the HD 650 (which is classically known for its synergy with the BHC + SB)?


 
 Either way though, the HD800 will most likely sound different than the HD650. Going from the HD650 to HD800 will make you realize that the HD800 sounds thinner.
 But if you are looking for more analytical experience, the HD800 is indeed a total upgrade over the 650 and it does not disappoint.
  
 Also I think you can just keep your current setup for a while.


----------



## Ani1000

Has anyone compared Modi Multibit vs Mojo with HD800?


----------



## Hansotek

ani1000 said:


> Has anyone compared Modi Multibit vs Mojo with HD800?




Mojo is significantly better. Mojo is better than Bifrost Multibit, as well, but it's much closer.


----------



## fjrabon

hansotek said:


> Mojo is significantly better. Mojo is better than Bifrost Multibit, as well, but it's much closer.




I thought the opposite but ymmv, IMHO, etc.


----------



## Hansotek

fjrabon said:


> I thought the opposite but ymmv, IMHO, etc.




Than which?


----------



## fjrabon

hansotek said:


> Than which?




I thought bimby was very slightly better than MiMBy, but both were significant upgrades over mojo.


----------



## Hansotek

fjrabon said:


> I thought bimby was very slightly better than MiMBy, but both were significant upgrades over mojo.




Really? Huh. I thought MiMby was pretty "meh". 

I A/B'ed Bimby and Mojo extensively. I will grant bimby has a slightly woodier tonality and could be considered slightly more transparent in some regards, but I found Mojo to be more detailed, clear, impactful, dynamic, spacious, and engaging. I found that it had less grain and was very slightly crisper in terms of attack and decay. 

On the downside, close A/Bing shows a slightly more metallic hue on the Mojo vs. Bimby's woodier tone, but it is slight, and it's just highlighting a different part of the music (i.e. - more of the strings of the guitar than the body - hard to say which is the more accurate timbre, is this transient detail lost by Bimby or better D/A conversion?). At any rate, it made bimby seem 2% more analog to me while the Mojo sounded 5% more "high-fidelity". In the end, I opted for the more high def sound of the Mojo. 

FWIW, there are a ton of variables at play here that could tilt the balance either way: Bimby has to deal with the foils of AC power (while Mojo is battery operated), not to mention the USB cables and interconnects are of a different type (making elimination of that variable impossible)... so even direct comparison may not be perfect. The point is, YMMV.


----------



## ColtMrFire

While I haven't heard Bimby, I did hear Yggy compared to Mimby and the differences were so slight it was hard to believe...and I was listening through TOTL amps and headphones, so there was no bottleneck.  I can't imagine Bimby being "better" rather than just "different".   Some (reliable) people in blind tests couldn't even tell the difference between Mimby and Bimby.  The Schiit multibit DACs are so good, it's probably going to come down to system matching rather than "which one is better?"
  
 But I will admit those small differences in Yggy's favor were enough for me to want one.  They make a pretty big difference to me when it comes to long term enjoyment.


----------



## jamesino

Just picked up the HD 800. Wow you guys were right. Haven't put too much time into them yet, but in terms of initial impressions, it does seem that the HD 650 sounds more involving and "euphonious." The HD 800 does seem more clinical, but the wider soundstage seems to do a better job of drawing you into the music.
  
 One last question, is it normal for the two headphones to have different loudness at the same volume setting even though both are 300 ohms? i.e, if I have the amp volume at 9 o'clock for both headphones, the HD 800 sounds a bit quieter.


----------



## fjrabon

jamesino said:


> Just picked up the HD 800. Wow you guys were right. Haven't put too much time into them yet, but in terms of initial impressions, it does seem that the HD 650 sounds more involving and "euphonious." The HD 800 does seem more clinical, but the wider soundstage seems to do a better job of drawing you into the music.
> 
> One last question, is it normal for the two headphones to have different loudness at the same volume setting even though both are 300 ohms? i.e, if I have the amp volume at 9 o'clock for both headphones, the HD 800 sounds a bit quieter.


 

 yes.  They have different sensitivities.  Impedance doesn't actually even impact the loudness directly.  Impedance comes up because most amps can't deliver as much power at higher impedances.  But the only things that determine your headphone's loudness are the power the amp delivers at the impedance and the headphone's sensitivity.


----------



## jamesino

fjrabon said:


> yes.  They have different sensitivities.  Impedance doesn't actually even impact the loudness directly.  Impedance comes up because most amps can't deliver as much power at higher impedances.  But the only things that determine your headphone's loudness are the power the amp delivers at the impedance and the headphone's sensitivity.


 
 Thanks. Per your guys' advice, I'll upgrade to the Modi Multibit when I get a chance. Also, the first thing I noticed with the HD 800 was that I was able to hear the treble roll off of the tube amps a bit better. With the HD 650, the tube roll off seemed rather natural as it matched the headphone's sound signature. But with the HD 800, it seemed much more obvious.


----------



## JaZZ

Actually it's not a weakness of amps that makes higher impedances prone to lower sensitivity, it's the mere fact that with equal volume setting the current flow at 300 Ω is only half of that at 150 Ω.


----------



## fjrabon

jazz said:


> Actually it's not a weakness of amps that makes higher impedances prone to lower sensitivity, it's the mere fact that with equal volume setting the current flow at 300 Ω is only half of that at 150 Ω.


 

 right, but this also depends on whether the amp is current or voltage limited as to how it plays out in terms of power delivered.  Some amps actually can produce more power at higher resistances than lower resistances.  But I didn't intend to say it was a "weakness" of the amp, but rather that you don't need to consider headphone resistance other than to see how much power your amp can output at that resistance.  And the relationship is never as easy as "current is half" and you rarely know exactly how much it is unless the amp manufacturer just states how much power the amp outputs at the the impedance of your headphone.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

coltmrfire said:


> While I haven't heard Bimby, I did hear Yggy compared to Mimby and the differences were so slight it was hard to believe...and I was listening through TOTL amps and headphones, so there was no bottleneck.  I can't imagine Bimby being "better" rather than just "different".   Some (reliable) people in blind tests couldn't even tell the difference between Mimby and Bimby.  The Schiit multibit DACs are so good, it's probably going to come down to system matching rather than "which one is better?"
> 
> But I will admit those small differences in Yggy's favor were enough for me to want one.  They make a pretty big difference to me when it comes to long term enjoyment.


 

 We really should have this discussion on the Mimby or Bimby thread, but the reason for my recommendation was simply Bimby's upgradability. In case Mike released Gen 3 USB support, an even better supercomboallthefillingsburrito filter, etc.


----------



## JaZZ

fjrabon said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > Actually it's not a weakness of amps that makes higher impedances prone to lower sensitivity, it's the mere fact that with equal volume setting the current flow at 300 Ω is only half of that at 150 Ω.
> ...


 
  
 What you're saying is related to the maximum undistorted power an amp can output, not the sensitivity aspect.


----------



## ColtMrFire

bosiemoncrieff said:


> We really should have this discussion on the Mimby or Bimby thread, but the reason for my recommendation was simply Bimby's upgradability. In case Mike released Gen 3 USB support, an even better supercomboallthefillingsburrito filter, etc.


 
  
 Got it.


----------



## fjrabon

jazz said:


> What you're saying is related to the maximum undistorted power an amp can output, not the sensitivity aspect.


 
 Okay?  My point is that you need to look at your headphone's resistance, how much power your amp can output at that resistance and then the sensitivity of your headphone.  Once you know how much power your amp can output at that resistance, the only thing you need is your headphone's sensitivity.  If your amp produces the same output at 300 ohms and 50 ohms of headphone impedance (some do), then whichever headphone is more sensitive will be louder.  
  
 Simply thinking "higher ohm = harder to drive" won't work.  And I know you weren't saying that, but many people have that impression, and it's not always the case, that was my only point.  You need to know specifically how much power an amp produces at a specific resistance.  If you don't you're more or less just guessing about difficulty to drive.  
  
 I'm still not sure what point you're trying to make here?  (not a criticism of your post, and not saying you're wrong, just saying I don't understand what point you're trying to make).  The maximum undistorted power an amp can deliver at a given impedance combined with a headphone's sensitivity is what you need to know to gauge this matter, which is what I've said.


----------



## JaZZ

Hey _fjrabon..._
  
 ...the original question wasn't about «hard to drive» or not, just sensitivity and its connection to impedance, so I was trying to take care that your sidesteps weren't misleading.


----------



## fjrabon

jazz said:


> Hey _fjrabon..._
> 
> ...the original question wasn't about «hard to drive» or not, just sensitivity and its connection to impedance, so I was trying to take care that your sidesteps weren't misleading.




Right. He asked why the HD800 was louder than the HD650 even though they were both 300 ohms. I said "because the HD800 is more sensitive. There is more to difficulty to drive and loudness than just impedance." I'm still not sure what you're trying to get across, but I think we are overall on the same page, so it's probably not worth going into more detail over.


----------



## MattTCG

Here is a simple question. Why do so many sites/reviews list the 800 as 330 grams when it's clearly about 375 grams.


----------



## Fearless1

matttcg said:


> Here is a simple question. Why do so many sites/reviews list the 800 as 330 grams when it's clearly about 375 grams.





That extra weight is the SDR mod :wink_face:


----------



## fjrabon

matttcg said:


> Here is a simple question. Why do so many sites/reviews list the 800 as 330 grams when it's clearly about 375 grams.




Is this a with/without cable issue? The reason is simply that Sennheiser says 330g without cable. They just repeat what Sennheiser says. No idea if that's accurate and if it's not why Sennheiser got it wrong.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Nope. Without the cable the 800 weights 375 grams. I'm just trying to figure where the 330 gram figure comes from.


----------



## Sorrodje

fearless1 said:


> That extra weight is the SDR mod


 
  
  
 lol. Nope. it's only 6g for a pair.


----------



## fjrabon

matttcg said:


> ^^ Nope. Without the cable the 800 weights 375 grams. I'm just trying to figure where the 330 gram figure comes from.




Th easy answer is Sennheiser. It's what they say in every piece of literature. No idea why they got it wrong. 

Only other thing I can think is some headphones "gain weight" over time as the headband and pads absorb sweat and dead skin. But I doubt that could be what's causing this much variation.


----------



## MattTCG

Maybe sennheiser did get it wrong and these reviews just pull that number from the site. But mine were 375 out of the box. Can you imagine the comfort if they were actually 330? I guess their is no definitive answer.


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, so after you take the headband and earpads off, the 800 is at 335 grams. Surely they didn't strip it down and publish this as the legitimate curb weight...


----------



## ColtMrFire

Dayum.  On Charles Mingus' "Mingus Ah Um" track 2 (superbly mastered) I can hear the spit going through the reed instrument.  Jotun/Mimby/HD800 FTW.


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> Dayum.  On Charles Mingus' "Mingus Ah Um" track 2 (superbly mastered) I can hear the spit going through the reed instrument.  Jotun/Mimby/HD800 FTW.


 

 not to lessen the abilities of that system (it's an amazing system, for sure), but I can definitely hear the raspy spittle of Booker Ervin's sax with even my EMU walnut straight out of my iPhone on Goodbye Pork Pie Hat.  It was an interesting choice the way they mic'd that, as most engineers would have "fixed it" but I have to imagine it was purposefully left that way for the effect, given the level of care the rest of the instruments were recorded with.  
  
 an interesting "crazy resolution" moment from the same album is the very faint squeak of the kick drum in Boogie Stop Shuffle around 3:11 and 3:15.


----------



## ColtMrFire

While I thoroughly enjoy the Mimby through the Jot, it's a fairly neutral presentation.  I have a feeling the transparent Jot /HD800 would work best with the warm euphonia from the Gumby.  One day...


----------



## fjrabon

coltmrfire said:


> While I thoroughly enjoy the Mimby through the Jot, it's a fairly neutral presentation.  I have a feeling the transparent Jot /HD800 would work best with the warm euphonia from the Gumby.  One day...




I just wish I had a clear idea of what Schiit was going to do with their DAC line. There are these repeated hints of a game changer coming. Otherwise I'd throw down for a gumby right now. 

I never felt that gumby or yggy were any more "warm euphonia" than the MiMBy but rather that they just had adequately powered analog output stages, which gave more attack to the low end. The MiMBy is sort of warm, but a bit light in the pants with bass attack due to the somewhat shortchanged analog output stage (due simply to lessened power supply). 

I also don't think any of the Schiit DACs are truly warm. We are just used to sabre based DS DACs and all their god awful hash glare and artificial "detail" harshness. I love that most DAC makers have either moved to R2R or the akm approach. Even chord's tuning is "warm." To me none of these are warm, but rather correct. It's just that we've all had crappy DACs for years and are just now hearing it the way it should be.


----------



## jamesino

Not that I'm looking to purchase another pair of HPs, does anyone also own an LCD 2/X/3/4 and overall prefer the HD 800 to the LCDs? I understand that they're very different headphones in terms of sound signature and obviously different in prices, but it seems like most reviews I've read so far overall prefer the LCDs due to their musicality.


----------



## fjrabon

jamesino said:


> Not that I'm looking to purchase another pair of HPs, does anyone also own an LCD 2/X/3/4 and overall prefer the HD 800 to the LCDs? I understand that they're very different headphones in terms of sound signature and obviously different in prices, but it seems like most reviews I've read so far overall prefer the LCDs due to their musicality.




I'm not a big fan at all of the X and XC. Or the EL8 or EL8C for that matter. The 2.2f is very good, but isn't on a level with the HD800 in terms of detail, transparency, soundstage and speed. The 3&4 are much closer in all regards except soundstage. The LCDs do win in terms of impact. 

Frequency response is a preference issue. I don't like either frequency response, to be totally honest, but I just EQ anyway. The only headphones that I'm happy with their frequency response as is are the abyss and Utopia. The HD800, with the right system, can achieve performance the LCDs can only dream of.


----------



## thefitz

jamesino said:


> Not that I'm looking to purchase another pair of HPs, does anyone also own an LCD 2/X/3/4 and overall prefer the HD 800 to the LCDs? I understand that they're very different headphones in terms of sound signature and obviously different in prices, but it seems like most reviews I've read so far overall prefer the LCDs due to their musicality.


My LCD-X are my favourite headphone overall in terms of musicality. There's not one thing I'd change. If I have a critique it's that the soundstage isn't particularly exceptional. But for me it's a perfect blend of clarity, detail, transparency, and musicality. The XC IMO has more in common timbre wise with the HD800 than the X - it's incredibly detailed and quite hot in the treble overall. 

For me, the the LCD-3F sounds like an LCD-2.2 without the grain. Both sets have a very smoky sound - a cigar, brandy, and stuffed leather armchair kind of sound.


----------



## DavidA

jamesino said:


> Not that I'm looking to purchase another pair of HPs, does anyone also own an LCD 2/X/3/4 and overall prefer the HD 800 to the LCDs? I understand that they're very different headphones in terms of sound signature and obviously different in prices, but it seems like most reviews I've read so far overall prefer the LCDs due to their musicality.


 
 Like @fjrabon I'm not a fan of the X or XC, but the 2 and 3 are good if that is a sound signature that you like.  If I had to pick one from LCD-2 or HD-800 I would take the HD-800, mainly for comfort reasons and the fact that you can EQ the HD-800 to almost any sound signature you like while it LCD-2/3/X are not as flexible with EQ.
  
 A term like "musicality" means different thing to different people so it depends on the genre for me between the LCD series or HD-800/S which I would use.


----------



## cycle53x12

jamesino said:


> Not that I'm looking to purchase another pair of HPs, does anyone also own an LCD 2/X/3/4 and overall prefer the HD 800 to the LCDs? I understand that they're very different headphones in terms of sound signature and obviously different in prices, but it seems like most reviews I've read so far overall prefer the LCDs due to their musicality.


 

 I have the both the HD800 and LCD XC. The HD are my favorite when I have a quite environment to listen in, otherwise I will use the XC. With that said I not sure the XC is at the same level as the HD when it comes to accuracy and clarity. The Hd's are so wide and spacious, and for me very satisfying.
 The XC seem a little warmer but not as precise to me but are very enjoyable with certain types of music that I have like 80's rock (Journey, Kansas, Boston). I have never heard the other LCD's but have read here that they are a different animal all together.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

cycle53x12 said:


> I have the both the HD800 and LCD XC. The HD are my favorite when I have a quite environment to listen in, otherwise I will use the XC. With that said I not sure the XC is at the same level as the HD when it comes to accuracy and clarity. The Hd's are so wide and spacious, and for me very satisfying.
> The XC seem a little warmer but not as precise to me but are very enjoyable with certain types of music that I have like 80's rock (Journey, Kansas, Boston). I have never heard the other LCD's but have read here that they are a different animal all together.


 

 how do the hd600s stack up against xc?


----------



## jamesino

davida said:


> Like @fjrabon I'm not a fan of the X or XC, but the 2 and 3 are good if that is a sound signature that you like.  If I had to pick one from LCD-2 or HD-800 I would take the HD-800, mainly for comfort reasons and the fact that you can EQ the HD-800 to almost any sound signature you like while it LCD-2/3/X are not as flexible with EQ.
> 
> A term like "musicality" means different thing to different people so it depends on the genre for me between the LCD series or HD-800/S which I would use.


 
 I have a Windows 10 laptop and listen to music via Spotify Premium and Foobar2000. Do you recommend a software that provides system-wide EQ or individual plug-ins separately for Spotify and foobar? Any recommendations?


----------



## cycle53x12

bosiemoncrieff said:


> how do the hd600s stack up against xc?


 

 The HD 600 is a little bigger in sound stage, which I guess would make sense because it is an open can versus the XC which is closed.  But the 600 cannot touch the 800 when it comes to sound stage. I am currently running the HD 800 with Sonarworks and it is perfect. Sonarworks with the 600 is a lot less noticeable since I believe it is closer to neutral. 
 The 600 has a really nice sound very similar to me as the 800 just a little less in some areas.
 The XC is warmer and but does not have the airiness of either Sennheiser, but with that said they are very enjoyable and have a nice bass to me.
 And the XC is a sealed can so you will be able use them in some settings where the HD's will bleed into the room and vice versa.
 For the price I think the HD600 is an excellent can and from what I have read, it scales really well too. 
 Right now with my setup I can choose one or the other and after a few minutes really forget some of the differences with the right music.


----------



## DavidA

jamesino said:


> I have a Windows 10 laptop and listen to music via Spotify Premium and Foobar2000. Do you recommend a software that provides system-wide EQ or individual plug-ins separately for Spotify and foobar? Any recommendations?


 
 Sorry, I don't use any EQ, hope some others can help with your question about EQ


----------



## akg fanboy

I use dmg audio equilibrium with jriver but its a vst plugin so it should work with foobar and winamp etc as well. Don't think it will work with streaming services


----------



## JaZZ

jamesino said:


> I have a Windows 10 laptop and listen to music via Spotify Premium and Foobar2000. Do you recommend a software that provides system-wide EQ or individual plug-ins separately for Spotify and foobar? Any recommendations?


 
  
 I use xnor's ⅓-octave graphic equalizer for foobar2000, fully satisfied with it.


----------



## i019791

jamesino said:


> I have a Windows 10 laptop and listen to music via Spotify Premium and Foobar2000. Do you recommend a software that provides system-wide EQ or individual plug-ins separately for Spotify and foobar? Any recommendations?


 
 Equalizer APO is a free of charge, parametric and very good system-wide one.


----------



## Ani1000

Is there any Grado that comes close to HD800 sound quality?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

ani1000 said:


> Is there any Grado that comes close to HD800 sound quality?


 
 No.


----------



## fjrabon

ani1000 said:


> Is there any Grado that comes close to HD800 sound quality?




the subjectivity of sound preferences might allow some people to prefer some Grados to the HD800. But in terms of technical performance, no, no Grado comes even remotely close.


----------



## Ani1000

I read somewhere on head- fi that PS1000e was more detailed than HD800, so i was surprised because i have auditioned the RS1 and GS1000 and didn't like them at all. 
Not to mention the build quality, they felt like they would break in a year max. 
I also auditioned some Audeze headphones and wasn't that impressed.


----------



## fjrabon

ani1000 said:


> I read somewhere on head- fi that PS1000e was more detailed than HD800, so i was surprised because i have auditioned the RS1 and GS1000 and didn't like them at all.
> Not to mention the build quality, they felt like they would break in a year max.
> I also auditioned some Audeze headphones and wasn't that impressed.




The PS1000e has an extreme 10kHz spike and scooped mids. For some people that equals "detailed." The PS1000e has much more distortion and a jagged impulse response, which are the "technical" aspects of "detail." Some people think it's more detailed because they hear more high frequency than they're used to, because it's just louder at 10kHz. But if you equalize the two headphones the HD800 destroys it in resolving ability.


----------



## JaZZ

fjrabon said:


> ani1000 said:
> 
> 
> > I read somewhere on head- fi that PS1000e was more detailed than HD800, so i was surprised because i have auditioned the RS1 and GS1000 and didn't like them at all.
> ...


 
  
 I agree. For me it was no contest.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Man, Soundgarden's "Core" really shows what the 800 can do with a well mastered rock album.  Schiit goes hard.


----------



## MickeyVee

If you're a Mac person, +1 on Audirvana + Sonarworks.  Been testing it for the last week or so and it's a killer combo. Totally agree with @Zoom25's observations!
  
 Quote:


zoom25 said:


> I highly recommend Audirvana Plus users to read this:
> 
> post #539
> 
> Essentially, due to OS upgrade to Sierra, I was forced to turn Direct Mode OFF. As a results, the Sonarworks experience got a lot better. The linear mode sounds excellent now without the pre-ringing and lack of punch. In fact quite the opposite. Very tight image and bass that goes really deep. Mids are clearer than before and punches in all the right places. Might be worth checking out even if you don't use Sonarworks.


----------



## DivineCurrent

How do you guys feel about Sennheiser's choice to add more 2nd harmonic distortion to the bass on the HD800-S? Why couldn't they just change the driver a little or something to add more bass instead of adding distortion? I haven't heard the original HD800 to hear the difference between the two, but I just find it a poorly thought out thing to do, especially since Sennheiser is focused on sound quality over anything.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Sonarworks has given me the most dramatic improvements on piano music.


----------



## johnjen

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Sonarworks has given me the most dramatic improvements on piano music.


 
 I know what you mean.
 It seems somehow related to the increase in the dynamic impact and power that the strings do generate.
  
 At least that was what I noticed.
  
 JJ


----------



## Rozenberg

achelgeson said:


> How do you guys feel about Sennheiser's choice to add more 2nd harmonic distortion to the bass on the HD800-S? Why couldn't they just change the driver a little or something to add more bass instead of adding distortion? I haven't heard the original HD800 to hear the difference between the two, but I just find it a poorly thought out thing to do, especially since Sennheiser is focused on sound quality over anything.




Probably because tweaking the driver itself would need more research and make an increase in price, whereas the current price increase of HD800S compared to HD800's MSRP is just because of the additional included balanced cable. I think the guys at Sennheiser know the tradeoff but still did what they did. 

Well, do you think the 800S sounds good? What's the point of obsessing over measurements when you can still enjoy music with it? It's not like the 2nd harmonic is bothering you ears unless you're listening while looking at the graphs.


----------



## fjrabon

achelgeson said:


> How do you guys feel about Sennheiser's choice to add more 2nd harmonic distortion to the bass on the HD800-S? Why couldn't they just change the driver a little or something to add more bass instead of adding distortion? I haven't heard the original HD800 to hear the difference between the two, but I just find it a poorly thought out thing to do, especially since Sennheiser is focused on sound quality over anything.




The choice wasn't solely to add more bass. There is a belief in audio that most speaker designers have that harmonic distortion should decrease smoothly as you go down the harmonic order. So, there should be more harmonic distortion in the 2nd harmonic than the 3rd, more in the 3rd than 4th, etc. With most solid state amps the HD800 actually has more harmonic distortion in the 3rd harmonic than the 2nd. Tube amps "fix" this. 

Sennheiser's goal wasn't just to add more perceived bass, but to add more body to the tonality. More body is more or less synonymous with 2nd harmonic distortion. 

However, I prefer to bring the 2nd harmonic distortion in via a tube rather than it being an irreversible characteristic of the headphone. As this allows me to control the precise amount and character with tube rolling. But if you're going to use a solid state amp the HD800S is probably better for most people.


----------



## Arniesb

achelgeson said:


> How do you guys feel about Sennheiser's choice to add more 2nd harmonic distortion to the bass on the HD800-S? Why couldn't they just change the driver a little or something to add more bass instead of adding distortion? I haven't heard the original HD800 to hear the difference between the two, but I just find it a poorly thought out thing to do, especially since Sennheiser is focused on sound quality over anything.


There is no distortion what can be HEARD. Why none can't understand that decreasing high Frequencies affect speed, clarity of bass, details and whole balance of sound... Do You think it is possible to have HD800S everything, but with a HD800 bass characteristics? Some are talking like: super dupont doesn't affect bass like Sennheiser resonator. Well yeah! Cause its taming effect is not as noticable as Sennheiser resonator. You can pick any headphones and eq down high frequencies by like 6db and you will se how sound will be fuller and more forgiving, but slower with less definition everywhere.
Same with bass increase. Sound gonna be fuller, but slower with less detail. Thats why V Shape headphones exist!!! Cause lot of highs can make everything more speedier with more definition.


----------



## Sorrodje

@Arniesb : Go listen to a Stax SR007 and come back here to give impressions. It's the first exemple that come in my mind of a warm/dark yet fast (faster than a HD800)  headphone that demonstrates the perceived speed and tonal balance are not that easy to correlate. IMO, IME , YMMV


----------



## Arniesb

sorrodje said:


> @Arniesb
> : Go llisten to a Stax SR007 and come back here to give impressions. It's the first exemple that come in my mind of a warm/dark yet fast (faster than a HD800)  headphone that demonstrate perceived speed and tonal balance are not that easy to correlate. IMO, IME , YMMV


I wasnt saying that all warm headphones is slow. I was sayin that SAME headphones, but with warmer tuning will be slower with less definition... Just look at T1.2 and HD800S. Both are warmer than their predecessors, but also a bit slower and with less definition.


----------



## Sorrodje

I don"t know the Beyer T1.2 but i had the pleasure to own the HD800S and the HD800 (stock and modded) and I never felt the HD800S was slower. Considering I measured, heard and reviewed the HD800SD before Tyll , i hadn't been influenced by his own conclusion about distorsion when I wrote my review . My conclusion was I heard some small differences and mainly the very positive change in tonality thks to the tamed 6khz peak and resonnance . the only downside I heard was a slight lack of instrument separation during complex movements in orchestral music. I never heard that much warmth or lack of definition to be honest. Maybe a tad more extension .
  
 I won't change what i wrote even if now it seems everybody find the HD800S distorsion unacceptable. I'm maybe deaf but at least I'm honestly deaf.


----------



## Arniesb

sorrodje said:


> I don"t know the Beyer T1.2 but i had the pleasure to own the HD800S and the HD800 (stock and modded) and I never felt the HD800S was slower. Considering I measured, heard and reviewed the HD800SD before Tyll , i hadn't been influenced by his own conclusion about distorsion when I wrote my review . My conclusion was I heard some small differences and mainly the very positive change in tonality thks to the tamed 6khz peak and resonnance . the only downside I heard was a slight lack of instrument separation during complex movements in orchestral music. I never heard that much warmth or lack of definition to be honest. Maybe a tad more extension .
> 
> I won't change what i wrote even if now it seems everybody find the HD800S distorsion unacceptable. I'm maybe deaf but at least I'm honestly deaf.


I wasnt saying HD800S lack definition, just sayin HD800 have a touch more definition. HD800S is a touch fuller and HD800 is a touch thinner. Everybody knows that thinner is faster if headphones is same. I just wanna say that there is nothing perfect. I dont care if one have more not noticable by ear distortion honestly. Just my opinion.


----------



## fjrabon

arniesb said:


> There is no distortion what can be HEARD. Why none can't understand that decreasing high Frequencies affect speed, clarity of bass, details and whole balance of sound... Do You think it is possible to have HD800S everything, but with a HD800 bass characteristics? Some are talking like: super dupont doesn't affect bass like Sennheiser resonator. Well yeah! Cause its taming effect is not as noticable as Sennheiser resonator. You can pick any headphones and eq down high frequencies by like 6db and you will se how sound will be fuller and more forgiving, but slower with less definition everywhere.
> Same with bass increase. Sound gonna be fuller, but slower with less detail. Thats why V Shape headphones exist!!! Cause lot of highs can make everything more speedier with more definition.




Sure, high frequencies create a perception of detail and speed. But you can also get there the good old fashioned way of clean impulse response, good driver matching, low noise and low yet asymptotic decrease of harmonic distortion. 

Also, the Sennheiser resonator isn't what changed the bass. Sennheiser changed the mass distribution of the ring cone to produce more 2nd harmonic distortion. 

There was two perceived issues with the HD800: 1) resonance st 6kHz and 2) more 3rd and 4th harmonic distortion than 2nd. The first issue was solved with the resonator, the 2nd issue with a minor shift in the geometry and mass of the ring radiator.


----------



## fjrabon

sorrodje said:


> I don"t know the Beyer T1.2 but i had the pleasure to own the HD800S and the HD800 (stock and modded) and I never felt the HD800S was slower. Considering I measured, heard and reviewed the HD800SD before Tyll , i hadn't been influenced by his own conclusion about distorsion when I wrote my review . My conclusion was I heard some small differences and mainly the very positive change in tonality thks to the tamed 6khz peak and resonnance . the only downside I heard was a slight lack of instrument separation during complex movements in orchestral music. I never heard that much warmth or lack of definition to be honest. Maybe a tad more extension .
> 
> I won't change what i wrote even if now it seems everybody find the HD800S distorsion unacceptable. I'm maybe deaf but at least I'm honestly deaf.




I don't think you're deaf at all. The increased distortion actually allows the HD800 to have a THD curve more like speakers in a well treated room. 

People think of distortion like it's some crackling, boomy, fuzzy sound. 2nd harmonic distortion is merely a slight change to the tonality. 

You could, in fact take away the term "distortion" and understand it better. Every note you hear in natural music is comprised of a fundamental and harmonics, which are sympathetic ringings of harmonically related tones. "Fuller" sounding instruments like a cello, for example, have more 2nd harmonic in their tonality than do thinner instruments, like a harpsichord, which has more harmonic distortion in the third harmonic. Nobody talks about how they can't stand the sound of harmonic distortion in a cello. 

Speaker makers have long known, and strived for a harmonic profile where harmonic distortion decreases as you go from one harmonic to the next. This is well known, and considered a fundamental quality of a good sounding speaker system in a well treated room. 

For whatever reason, this is often forgotten by headphone makers. Headphone makers seem to strive for the absolute lowest harmonic distortion possible, probably so they can quote an impressively low THD number. And low THD is good, if you could lower the distortion in ***every*** harmonic by half, you would almost always have a clearer headphone, with great tonality. . However it is not so good when it throws the relative amounts between the harmonics out of whack. And since the 2nd harmonic has the most distortion, they tend to go after it most. You can have a drastically lower amount of THD if you cut out 2nd harmonic distortion. But it will come at the expense of making the headphone sound brittle and lacking body. This is what happened to the HD800. It actually had so little distortion in the 2nd harmonic that it seemed to lack body. This is why it seemed to sound so great with tube amps, as tube amps have a good bit of 2nd harmonic distortion, but very little higher order harmonic distortion. 

My issue with the HD800S is that it's like Sennheiser picked your tube for you. The HD800 allowed you to dial in the exact amount of 2nd harmonic distortion you wanted with the right tube. The HD800s more or less demands a very low amount added, or it can get bloated. It cuts down your options when tube rolling, if not outright demanding a solid state amp. (Solid state amps tend to have relatively equal amounts of distortion in the first through fifth harmonics, this also isn't true of all solid state amps, but is a generalization ). However, on the right amp, the HD800S is going to sound wonderful. To my ears, if you take a HD800 and a HD800S and plug them both into a high end solid state amp and DAC the HD800S sound better. Easily. And that was its purpose. It's not for us extreme people who will tailor an entire system for ultimate synergy. It's for the people who just want to plug it into an amp and go.


----------



## Arniesb

fjrabon said:


> Sure, high frequencies create a perception of detail and speed. But you can also get there the good old fashioned way of clean impulse response, good driver matching, low noise and low yet asymptotic decrease of harmonic distortion.
> 
> Also, the Sennheiser resonator isn't what changed the bass. Sennheiser changed the mass distribution of the ring cone to produce more 2nd harmonic distortion.
> 
> There was two perceived issues with the HD800: 1) resonance st 6kHz and 2) more 3rd and 4th harmonic distortion than 2nd. The first issue was solved with the resonator, the 2nd issue with a minor shift in the geometry and mass of the ring radiator.


 Sennheiser changed the mass distribution of the ring cone to produce more 2nd harmonic distortion. Didnt heard about this change. Thanks for making it more clear. Thats explain more than usual drop in bass characteristics like damping can do.


----------



## Arniesb

fjrabon said:


> I don't think you're deaf at all. The increased distortion actually allows the HD800 to have a THD curve more like speakers in a well treated room.
> 
> People think of distortion like it's some crackling, boomy, fuzzy sound. 2nd harmonic distortion is merely a slight change to the tonality.
> 
> ...


One of the best post i ever read!!! Your knowledge is among the best! Thats why i buyed HD800S I want easier life lol. Well HD800 still whould be nice to play with eq


----------



## FLTWS

arniesb said:


> One of the best post i ever read!!! Your knowledge is among the best! Thats why i buyed HD800S I want easier life lol. Well HD800 still whould be nice to play with eq


 
  
 Absolutely agree with you on that, first time I've read a written description of what I actually heard auditioning the two side by side. And why I'll probably add the S to my current stable at some point in the near future and I will retain the 800. I've had plenty of in-home hours with my collection of metal boxes on all the top contenders (except the Stax which I've owned in the past) I'm interested in, except the Utopia, which I am expecting next month for evaluation.


----------



## Sorrodje

fjrabon said:


> To my ears, if you take a HD800 and a HD800S and plug them both into a high end solid state amp and DAC the HD800S sound better. Easily. And that was its purpose. It's not for us extreme people who will tailor an entire system for ultimate synergy. It's for the people who just want to plug it into an amp and go.


 
  
 Likely indeed.
  
 And it's exactly what I experienced with the modded HD800 as well. During Last year I lived happily with a Krell KSA5 DIY and it's the first time I can live with a Solid State amplifier for my 2 or 3 hours of daily listening sessions. Nevertheless the modded HD800 does not exhibit the same Distorsion "enhancement" than the HD800S. So I still think the change of tonality induced by the tamed 6khz of the HD800S matters more than the increased distorsion.  
  
 Thks for your interesting explanations about the use of 2nd Harmonic Distorsion though.


----------



## Me x3

> Nobody talks about how they can't stand the sound of harmonic distortion in a cello.





> For whatever reason, this is often forgotten by headphone makers. Headphone makers seem to strive for the absolute lowest harmonic distortion possible, probably so they can quote an impressively low THD number. And low THD is good, if you could lower the distortion in ***every*** harmonic by half, you would almost always have a clearer headphone, with great tonality. . However it is not so good when it throws the relative amounts between the harmonics out of whack. And since the 2nd harmonic has the most distortion, they tend to go after it most. You can have a drastically lower amount of THD if you cut out 2nd harmonic distortion. But it will come at the expense of making the headphone sound brittle and lacking body. This is what happened to the HD800. It actually had so little distortion in the 2nd harmonic that it seemed to lack body. This is why it seemed to sound so great with tube amps, as tube amps have a good bit of 2nd harmonic distortion, but very little higher order harmonic distortion.


 
 I don't think we can leave the audibility variable aside.
 HD800 has less than 0.5% total harmonic distortion at normal listening levels, that's hard to hear.
 HD800S has higher distortion in the bass, it could be a tad easier to hear HD800S distortion but I really don't get why it's 'needed'.
  
 The ever decreasing distortion with orders always lacked solid foundation to me, at least when used without taking magnitudes into consideration.
  
 A cello has its foundamental and its harmonics, they are already there, so there's no need to tune the cello harmonics with the headphone's harmonic distortion.
 If 4th order distortion is so low you won't hear it, then you'll hear that harmonic on the cello the way it should.
 If 5th order distortion is higher than 4th order but low enough so you won't hear it, then I see no reason to call it wrong.
  
 The sound of a cello is not distorted since it's the original sound source. It has fundamentals and harmonics, and that's the way it should. You won't find someone saying I can't stand the sound of harmonic distortion of a cello because there's no harmonic distortion to speak of in the first place. It's just the sound of certain cello and that's it. If you want to hear the sound of a cello the way it is then you should push all types of distortions in your reproduction system beyond the audibility threshold.
  
 HD800 lacks body because of its frequency response. Simple +3dB broad band lower midrange/bass boost and HD800 doesn't lack body anymore.
 My DT880 Pro lacks some body too, and it's FR is similar to HD800.
  
 T1, K712, HD650 and to a lesser extent K702, don't lack body, but if I EQ them to match the HD800 they lack body.


----------



## fjrabon

sorrodje said:


> Likely indeed.
> 
> And it's exactly what I experienced with the modded HD800 as well. During Last year I lived happily with a Krell KSA5 DIY and it's the first time I can live with a Solid State amplifier for my 2 or 3 hours of daily listening sessions. Nevertheless the modded HD800 does not exhibit the same Distorsion "enhancement" than the HD800S. So I still think the change of tonality induced by the tamed 6khz of the HD800S matters more than the increased distorsion.
> 
> Thks for your interesting explanations about the use of 2nd Harmonic Distorsion though.




For sure changes to the fundamental frequency response (6kHz peak as addressed by EQ and resonators) matter more than changes to the harmonic distortion profile. 

In general when evaluating headphones the order of importance is something like:

1) average volume level - if you aren't precisely volume matching, the impressions are nearly useless. As volume level matters more in subjective impressions than anything else. 

2) frequency response - this is really just point #1 but expanded to individual frequencies. The simple volume of individual frequencies will override any other evaluation. Saying one headphone resolves better is very, very hard without equalizing them to have equal frequency responses

3) impulse response - how the impulse response decays. This can impact perceived speed, resolution and even perceived tonality. 

4) harmonic distortion profile - the amount of harmonic distortion AND the breakdown of which harmonics it resides inside. 

This leaves out other stuff like phase response, sound wave size, shape and angle of attack and driver matching. Those are more complex in how they interplay and don't really fit into a simple ranking. 

Most of the audiophile terms we have come from combinations of these more fundamental aspects of technical headphone performance. Most audiophile terms are imprecise combinations of those fundamentals that nobody exactly agrees on (and worse than that, they often don't even realize that they don't fundamentally agree about what a term like "grainy" means).


----------



## fjrabon

me x3 said:


> I don't think we can leave the audibility variable aside.
> HD800 has less than 0.5% total harmonic distortion at normal listening levels, that's hard to hear.




Can you hear the difference between a grand piano and a baby grand piano? That difference is primarily due to minuscule differences in harmonic distortion. About o.6%

Can you hear the difference between tubes and solid state? Under your statement that difference means the difference should be inaudible. The difference in harmonic distortion in a tube system and a similar solid state system (the magni2uber and Vali2, for example)is usually less than 0.01%. If you want to claim that people can't hear the increase of 2nd harmonic distortion in a tube, that's an argument so absurd on its face that I'm not even going to argue it.


----------



## Me x3

fjrabon said:


> Can you hear the difference between a grand piano and a baby grand piano? That difference is primarily due to minuscule differences in harmonic distortion. About o.6%
> 
> Can you hear the difference between tubes and solid state? Under your statement that difference means the difference should be inaudible. The difference in harmonic distortion in a tube system and a similar solid state system (the magni2uber and Vali2, for example)is usually less than 0.01%. If you want to claim that people can't hear the increase of 2nd harmonic distortion in a tube, that's an argument so absurd on its face that I'm not even going to argue it.


 
 I'm not sure why you keep calling harmonic distortion to the sound of a musical instrument.
 That's not distortion, that's the nature of its sound (fundamentals and harmonics)
  
 That's like saying your face is distorted, can't be. An image of your face can be distorted though.
  
 You're saying the difference is caused by the slight difference in terms of harmonic distortion values, but that's a guess.
 We are talking about completely different amplifiers designed using completely different topologies. Each design has its strengths and weaknesses and we can not pick a single variable at wish and say here's why these two sound slightly different.
  
 FiiO K5, Objective 2, Asgard 2, Magni, FiiO E10, Auralic Taurus MK2 all sound different as well, and they are much closer in terms of harmonic distortion.
  
 0.01% THD means - 80dB
 Try to put - 80 dB in the context of listening to music with open headphones in a room with natural noise floor.


----------



## fjrabon

me x3 said:


> I'm not sure why you keep calling harmonic distortion to the sound of a musical instrument.
> That's not distortion, that's the nature of its sound (fundamentals and harmonics)
> 
> That's like saying your face is distorted, can't be. An image of your face can be distorted though.
> ...


 

 you're right in the sense that harmonic distortion means deviation from the source signal, and harmonics in music is the tonality.  However, the point was it seems that people don't understand what harmonic distortion sounds like.  While they are defined as different things, extra 2nd harmonic sounds the same, regardless of whether it came from sympathetic vibration in the instrument or the the ring radiatior of a HD800.  They're called different things because of where they occur in the chain, but they are fundamentally identical concepts, thus using one to help people understand the other is completely valid.
  
 1dB isn't 1dB, you keep talking like all dB are created equal.  Our ears are much more sensitive to differences in the level of harmonics in a signal than the level of a fundamental tone.  Because we use differences in harmonic content to differentiate voices AND perceive distance.  This idea that relatively small changes in the harmonic content produce large changes in tonality is well understood, because it's essentially the theory in which modern synthesizers were designed with. 
  
 We can measure the output from amps.  The only meaningfully different measurement tube amps and solid state amps show is differences in harmonic distortion and how it is allocated within the harmonics.  Every amp manufacturer understands this clearly.  The fact that you're saying this isn't correct is stupefying to me.  You're essentially saying every amp maker is wrong when it comes to what makes their amps sound the way they do.


----------



## Me x3

fjrabon said:


> you're right in the sense that harmonic distortion means deviation from the source signal, and harmonics in music is the tonality.  However, the point was it seems that people don't understand what harmonic distortion sounds like.  While they are defined as different things, extra 2nd harmonic sounds the same, regardless of whether it came from sympathetic vibration in the instrument or the the ring radiatior of a HD800.  They're called different things because of where they occur in the chain, but they are fundamentally identical concepts, thus using one to help people understand the other is completely valid.
> 
> 1dB isn't 1dB, you keep talking like all dB are created equal.  Our ears are much more sensitive to differences in the level of harmonics in a signal than the level of a fundamental tone.  Because we use differences in harmonic content to differentiate voices AND perceive distance.  This idea that relatively small changes in the harmonic content produce large changes in tonality is well understood, because it's essentially the theory in which modern synthesizers were designed with.
> 
> We can measure the output from amps.  The only meaningfully different measurement tube amps and solid state amps show is differences in harmonic distortion and how it is allocated within the harmonics.  Every amp manufacturer understands this clearly.  The fact that you're saying this isn't correct is stupefying to me.  You're essentially saying every amp maker is wrong when it comes to what makes their amps sound the way they do.


 
  
 2nd harmonic sounds the same on source and on the reproduction end and I agree it can be misleading for newcomers.
 Remove the 2nd harmonic to a source, add a reproduction system with added 2nd harmonic and it should sound the same.
 On the other hand "extra" 2nd harmonic on the reproduction system (when audible) tweaks the tonality of the instrument.
 And then yes, it's the same phenomena as the one taking place in the original sound, but it's extra.
 It similar to FR deviations, 3dB extra bass will add the same kind of bass that was originaly there on the recording, but it will tweak the tonality and someone might prefer the original tonality.
  
 I don't think 1dB is always 1dB, but as powerful as our hearing can be, some things are still not audible for us.
 Some arguments that are perfectly valid on certain domain/range can become useless when we consider relatively extreme cases.
 A signal at -80dB is a signal at -80dB, no matter which "type" of dB we are considering it's huge attenuation anyway. Often crosstalk from jacks is worse than that.
 Keeping things is context is key to avoid theory derailing our understanding on the matter.
  
 Things like normal listening levels, electrical crosstalk, acoustic crosstalk and natural noise floor are often useful to place things in the right framework.
 Sometimes doing some testing can be helpful to understand what things like -80dB attenuation sound.
  
 No amp maker I know fully understand the tuning of an amplifier in objective terms. They all measure and listen, and tweak the topology in the search of a sound they like.
 You can read Jason Stoddart's comments on the topic. They even make some alternative measurements, like particular multitone tests and so in the search of more information from the objective techniques we have today. But at the end of the day they listen and let customers and/or trained people listen and judge the sound.
  
 I'm not saying how you should allocate harmonic distortion, I'm saying that at some point harmonic distortion is not a problem anymore, because you can not hear it.
 Masked by other problems or because our hearing is not sensitive enough. So when that's the case it doesn't really matter how it's allocated, because you won't hear it anyway.
  
 It's not true that "The only meaningfully different measurement tube amps and solid state amps show is differences in harmonic distortion and how it is allocated within the harmonics." and you know it. Output impedance is most of the times different, IMD is different, crosstalk is different, stability in time is different, sometimes FR is different as well, and so on...


----------



## JamieMcC

http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_dist_fdbk.pdf


----------



## Zoom25

mickeyvee said:


>





> If you're a Mac person, +1 on Audirvana + Sonarworks.  Been testing it for the last week or so and it's a killer combo. Totally agree with @Zoom25's observations!


 
  
 I'm happy that you are liking the combo. Can you tell me what OS you are running and if you also found differences between Direct Mode ON/OFF?


----------



## fjrabon

me x3 said:


> I'm not saying how you should allocate harmonic distortion, I'm saying that at some point harmonic distortion is not a problem anymore, because you can not hear it.
> 
> It's not true that "The only meaningfully different measurement tube amps and solid state amps show is differences in harmonic distortion and how it is allocated within the harmonics." and you know it. Output impedance is most of the times different, IMD is different, crosstalk is different, stability in time is different, sometimes FR is different as well, and so on...


 
 You have absolutely no proof that people can't hear the differences in harmonic distortion.  Going back to your original post, where you claim that .05% differences in THD are inaudible, you're essentially saying that no difference between headphones, amps and anything else in the chain with regards to THD matters.  Because there are virtually no amplifiers that differ in THD by more than .05% in THD measurements.  Your argument is that THD is inaudible.  Now, you may well say that I have no proof that people can hear differences in THD.  fair enough, and going into detailed studies of how we perceive harmonics is beyond the point of the HD800 thread anyway.  So I will leave it there.  But let's be very clear that you are absolutely saying distortion effectively doesn't matter, because .05% distortion is inaudible, and virtually all amplifiers differ by less than .05% in THD.  This is essentially saying that nobody can hear the difference between different brands of tubes.  Any difference between tubes will measure well below the 0.05% "inaudibility" threshold that you seemingly pulled out of nowhere with 0 support.
  
 While there are differences between particular amps, the only *characteristic* difference between most tube amps and most solid state amps are differences in distortion levels.  Sure, 2 given amps can vary in crosstalk, but it's not a characteristic of tubes that their crosstalk is worse.  Output impedance isn't a characteristic difference between tube and solid state devices.  And it's a very terrible amp indeed that has a characteristic difference in frequency response.  When I said the only difference between tube and solid state is difference in THD, I very obviously meant the only generalized difference that is characteristic. 
  
 edit: and after several various digressions that people in the HD800 thread have complained about, I don't intend to argue this point any further, not for lack of interest, but just in the interest of not having another long chain of nerdy digressions that most followers of this thread don't care about.


----------



## akg fanboy

fjrabon said:


> You have absolutely no proof that people can't hear the differences in harmonic distortion.  Going back to your original post, where you claim that .05% differences in THD are inaudible, you're essentially saying that no difference between headphones, amps and anything else in the chain with regards to THD matters.  Because there are virtually no amplifiers that differ in THD by more than .05% in THD measurements.  Your argument is that THD is inaudible.  Now, you may well say that I have no proof that people can hear differences in THD.  fair enough, and going into detailed studies of how we perceive harmonics is beyond the point of the HD800 thread anyway.  So I will leave it there.  But let's be very clear that you are absolutely saying distortion effectively doesn't matter, because .05% distortion is inaudible, and virtually all amplifiers differ by less than .05% in THD.  This is essentially saying that nobody can hear the difference between different brands of tubes.  Any difference between tubes will measure well below the 0.05% "inaudibility" threshold that you seemingly pulled out of nowhere with 0 support.
> 
> While there are differences between particular amps, the only *characteristic* difference between most tube amps and most solid state amps are differences in distortion levels.  Sure, 2 given amps can vary in crosstalk, but it's not a characteristic of tubes that their crosstalk is worse.  Output impedance isn't a characteristic difference between tube and solid state devices.  And it's a very terrible amp indeed that has a characteristic difference in frequency response.  When I said the only difference between tube and solid state is difference in THD, I very obviously meant the only generalized difference that is characteristic.
> 
> edit: and after several various digressions that people in the HD800 thread have complained about, I don't intend to argue this point any further, not for lack of interest, but just in the interest of not having another long chain of nerdy digressions that most followers of this thread don't care about.


 
 Well there's more than just harmonic distortion that makes something sound different. If you can hear the difference between manufacturing differences in an amp that causes it to have .05% more THD, then lemme know


----------



## fjrabon

akg fanboy said:


> Well there's more than just harmonic distortion that makes something sound different. If you can hear the difference between manufacturing differences in an amp that causes it to have .05% more THD, then lemme know


 

 I never said that harmonic distortion is the only difference that makes things sound different, I said it's the only characteristic difference between tubes and solid state systems.  Any 2 individual amps may have dozens of ways they are different.  
  
 I have no idea what the 2nd part of your question is asking.  YOu can never "hear the difference between manufacturing differences" as you don't listen to manufacturing processes.  You can hear the difference between the various properties of the resultant sound, THD being one.  And yes, I do believe that .05% is absolutely audible, ESPECIALLY in the 4th and 5th harmonic.


----------



## akg fanboy

fjrabon said:


> I never said that harmonic distortion is the only difference that makes things sound different, I said it's the only characteristic difference between tubes and solid state systems.  Any 2 individual amps may have dozens of ways they are different.
> 
> I have no idea what the 2nd part of your question is asking.  YOu can never "hear the difference between manufacturing differences" as you don't listen to manufacturing processes.  You can hear the difference between the various properties of the resultant sound, THD being one.  And yes, I do believe that .05% is absolutely audible, ESPECIALLY in the 4th and 5th harmonic.


 
 manufacturing variances... not all amps should measure completely identically even if it is the exact model, so I guess you can be the guy who tests the QC of amps by listening to them and spotting the one that has .05% more THD


----------



## MickeyVee

zoom25 said:


> I'm happy that you are liking the combo. Can you tell me what OS you are running and if you also found differences between Direct Mode ON/OFF?


 
  
 The latest and greatest Sierra since it came out.  After seeing your earlier posts, checked the Direct Mode setting and it was off.
 Glad I din't go the HD800S route   Sonarworks is definitely working for me though I'm using it about 50% of the time depending on the mood I'm in. Still playing around. It's good to have choice.


----------



## Yoga

mickeyvee said:


> The latest and greatest Sierra since it came out.  After seeing your earlier posts, checked the Direct Mode setting and it was off.
> Glad I din't go the HD800S route   Sonarworks is definitely working for me though I'm using it about 50% of the time depending on the mood I'm in. Still playing around. It's good to have choice.


 

 Had a play with the Wet/Dry knob? You may find your perfect combination of stock/EQ'ed that way.


----------



## RCBinTN

Unsubbed.
  
 My thanks to @ColtMrFire for trying to keep this thread readable.
  
 Happy listening, all.
 RCBinTN


----------



## icebear

rcbintn said:


> Unsubbed.
> 
> My thanks to @ColtMrFire for trying to keep this thread readable.
> 
> ...


 
 +1 of course.
 But you can just block the two offending members and then ... woops everything looks much cleaner


----------



## 13713

rcbintn said:


> Unsubbed.
> 
> My thanks to @ColtMrFire for trying to keep this thread readable.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


icebear said:


> +1 of course.
> But you can just block the two offending members and then ... woops everything looks much cleaner


 
  
 I agree but at the same time it is what makes headfi for lack of a better word... headfi. ColtMFire does bring life to loving music again and I greatly appreciate that in this thread.


----------



## Me x3

fjrabon said:


> You have absolutely no proof that people can't hear the differences in harmonic distortion.  Going back to your original post, where you claim that .05% differences in THD are inaudible, you're essentially saying that no difference between headphones, amps and anything else in the chain with regards to THD matters.  Because there are virtually no amplifiers that differ in THD by more than .05% in THD measurements.  Your argument is that THD is inaudible.  Now, you may well say that I have no proof that people can hear differences in THD.  fair enough, and going into detailed studies of how we perceive harmonics is beyond the point of the HD800 thread anyway.  So I will leave it there.  But let's be very clear that you are absolutely saying distortion effectively doesn't matter, because .05% distortion is inaudible, and virtually all amplifiers differ by less than .05% in THD.  This is essentially saying that nobody can hear the difference between different brands of tubes.  Any difference between tubes will measure well below the 0.05% "inaudibility" threshold that you seemingly pulled out of nowhere with 0 support.
> 
> While there are differences between particular amps, the only *characteristic* difference between most tube amps and most solid state amps are differences in distortion levels.  Sure, 2 given amps can vary in crosstalk, but it's not a characteristic of tubes that their crosstalk is worse.  Output impedance isn't a characteristic difference between tube and solid state devices.  And it's a very terrible amp indeed that has a characteristic difference in frequency response.  When I said the only difference between tube and solid state is difference in THD, I very obviously meant the only generalized difference that is characteristic.
> 
> edit: and after several various digressions that people in the HD800 thread have complained about, I don't intend to argue this point any further, not for lack of interest, but just in the interest of not having another long chain of nerdy digressions that most followers of this thread don't care about.


 
  
 I'm not the kind of guy you normally need to believe in. You can try these things for yourself.
 0.05% means -66dB attenuation, play a tone at typical levels then attenuate by 66dB and play it again.
 I think you can do this even using foobar's volume control. Then tell me what you hear.
  
 (And that's with a single tone and no masking at all)
  
 I know what you mean, but I really don't care for most complaints I've read so far.
 No one is forced to read here. I'm not forced to read the posts of someone claiming huge improvement after washing HD800's jack with alcohol, or the post of someone who experienced ever increasing sound quality by using various wyrds in chain. Every time I'm not interested in a post someone makes, I simply skip it. This is a big place full of very different people, and slight derailing is to be expected because otherwise this place would be of little use for everyone.
  
 Understanding distortion helps to understand one of the very few differences between HD800 and HD800S which was the starting point here and definitely on topic.
 At average levels, say 80 - 85 dB the difference in terms of THD between HD800 and HD800S is very subtle since both remain under 1%
 When listening to music at loud levels, dynamic peaks can easily hit 100dB and at that point the difference in THD between HD800 and HD800S becomes bigger and more evident.
  
 While on HD800 a 1% THD -mostly 3rd order- @ 30 Hz (100dB) is hard to hear (try this if you want: play a - 40dB (90Hz) tone along with a 0dB (30 Hz) tone)
 A 6% THD -mostly 2nd order- @30 Hz (100dB) on HD800S is much more likely to be audible.
 6% means -24dB attenuation this can be tried as well, and it's easy to hear IME
  
 My point is, one should not treat HD800's distortion as audible when it's not (or when it's Hardly audible), and same would apply to the amps.
 Harmonic distortion allocation can be of importance when the distortion involved is clearly audible, enough to change some instruments' tonality, but when that's not the case I really don't see a good reason to *"fill"* a relatively clean sound with very audible distortion for the sake of "proper" distortion allocation.
  
 In the case of the 30hz tone, using HD800 you get something that's very close to the original sound, while with HD800S you get that same sound plus a 60Hz tone at -24dB that wasn't there in the first place.
  
 In my view, Sennheiser was lazy with HD800S and instead of tweaking the FR in the bass decided to make a trade off, fuller bass in exchange for second order distortion.
 It surely sounds very well, most other quality headphones have similar levels of distortion and they all sound quite well to my ears. I mean don't take this as HD800S bashing, because it's one of the finest headphones around, but from a purist perspective the ideal HD800S should have low levels of harmonic distortion like HD800 and a warmer tilt in the frequency response (I think most sonarworks users would agree)


----------



## RCBinTN

13713 said:


> I agree but at the same time it is what makes headfi for lack of a better word... headfi. ColtMFire does bring life to loving music again and I greatly appreciate that in this thread.


 
  
 Fully agree!  There is a wealth of knowledge to be gained on Head-Fi.  I have learned more here than from all other sources combined.
  
 Since I already own the HD800, and love them, and recently learned about the SW idea (from this thread, thx all), at this point I'll just kick back and enjoy my music.
  
 Prost,
 RCB


----------



## Nikorasu

Is anybody using the burson supreme opamp v5i with the HD 800? If so how does it sound?


----------



## screwdriver

Things can get out of hand if u are not careful here at headi. U learn as u go . Now I've been here a while , I just enjoy the music now. I learned not to worry about the gear and if. I'm missing something with other set ups. I'm on my third hd800 and I keep coming back . Of course I also have the he1000 lol.


----------



## akg fanboy

I DUNU mayn, people say the hd800 is so sensitive and all this stuff, and how it can reveal all the intricacies of a recording.... but to me.... the k601 is definitely more picky to a low quality recording, even though it definitely has less detail. I think this has to do with the forward mids


----------



## jibzilla

fjrabon said:


> I don't think you're deaf at all. The increased distortion actually allows the HD800 to have a THD curve more like speakers in a well treated room.
> 
> People think of distortion like it's some crackling, boomy, fuzzy sound. 2nd harmonic distortion is merely a slight change to the tonality.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If people knew how much distortion gets added ON PURPOSE to today's music I highly doubt distortion would be such a four letter word.


----------



## jibzilla

me x3 said:


> In my view, Sennheiser was lazy with HD800S and instead of tweaking the FR in the bass decided to make a trade off, fuller bass in exchange for second order distortion.


 
  
 Yes they were def. lazy. I came on here a while ago and said they could keep everything about the hd800 the same just tweak the driver like with my airbow sr-sc1 which was a tweaked sr-407. That actually is a tweaked driver. The hd800S is a hd800 with a Helmholtz, not a tweaked driver and bigger markup than the airbow. Yay Stax.  Booo Sennheiser.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Made an interesting discovery just now.  I was listening to Mozart's Requiem (Karajan conducting, 1961).  When I got the HD800 used, it came with a copper balanced cable from Charleston cable company.  I had always been a firm advocate of balanced in my system, since the Jotunheim has a balanced out, and my old T90 seemed to benefit from it when I had the cable changed.  Anyway, for schiits and giggles I decided to compare the stock cable with the balanced one... I did this the first time I got the headphones, and my conclusion was the balanced sounded better... fuller, deeper, more powerful and less treble heavy.  When I switched to the stock cable this time I was kind of shocked.  I could hear all sorts of details the balanced cable was smearing over... like the individual voices in the men's choir were alot easier to individually pick out with the stock cable.  The soundstage was slightly less expansive and deep but only slightly.  The trade off was better micro detail, and a more realistic timbre (I believe the stock cable uses silver and copper, while the balanced cable uses just copper...).  The articulation of voices is especially more distinct.
  
 I will have to do some more comparisons to make a final judgement call, but it's not looking good for the balanced cable.  The stock cable is also alot less thick and bulky, one thing I did not like about the balanced cable.  
  
 Has anyone by chance reterminated the stock cable for balanced?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I've never been one to believe the cable hype, but if it's real, then different cable constructions would certainly be able to affect the sound alongside balanced vs. single ended operation.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> Made an interesting discovery just now.  I was listening to Mozart's Requiem (Karajan conducting, 1961).  When I got the HD800 used, it came with a copper balanced cable from Charleston cable company.  I had always been a firm advocate of balanced in my system, since the Jotunheim has a balanced out, and my old T90 seemed to benefit from it when I had the cable changed.  Anyway, for schiits and giggles I decided to compare the stock cable with the balanced one... I did this the first time I got the headphones, and my conclusion was the balanced sounded better... fuller, deeper, more powerful and less treble heavy.  When I switched to the stock cable this time I was kind of shocked.  I could hear all sorts of details the balanced cable was smearing over... like the individual voices in the men's choir were alot easier to individually pick out with the stock cable.  The soundstage was slightly less expansive and deep but only slightly.  The trade off was better micro detail, and a more realistic timbre (I believe the stock cable uses silver and copper, while the balanced cable uses just copper...).  The articulation of voices is especially more distinct.
> 
> I will have to do some more comparisons to make a final judgement call, but it's not looking good for the balanced cable.  The stock cable is also alot less thick and bulky, one thing I did not like about the balanced cable.
> 
> Has anyone by chance reterminated the stock cable for balanced?


 

 No, but I do have the CH 800 S which is the Sennheiser balanced stock cable for the HD800...


----------



## SP Wild

fjrabon said:


> I don't think you're deaf at all. The increased distortion actually allows the HD800 to have a THD curve more like speakers in a well treated room.
> 
> People think of distortion like it's some crackling, boomy, fuzzy sound. 2nd harmonic distortion is merely a slight change to the tonality.
> 
> ...




Occassionally one comes upon awesome posts like this on head fi.

So it's like how the same note plucked on a ukulele will sound brighter than when plucked ob a classical guitar. I always presumed one had more overtones and another had more undertones.


----------



## ColtMrFire

mwsvette said:


> No, but I do have the CH 800 S which is the Sennheiser balanced stock cable for the HD800...


 
  
 Have you compared the two in regards to SQ?


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> Have you compared the two in regards to SQ?


 

 I generally buy cables for form, function and on occasion even for looks.  I seldom have any expectation that there will be a change in SQ.
  
 That said, I do not hear a difference between the stock SE and the CH 800 S.  The cables I usually use with the HD800 are my balanced Moon Audio Black Dragons...


----------



## ColtMrFire

mwsvette said:


> I generally buy cables for form, function and on occasion even for looks.  I seldom have any expectation that there will be a change in SQ.
> 
> That said, I do not hear a difference between the stock SE and the CH 800 S.  The cables I usually use with the HD800 are my balanced Moon Audio Black Dragons...


 
  
 I see, thanks.  I've heard great things about the black dragons.  How do you rate it against the others SQ wise?


----------



## LinkPro

Just got my HD800 in, paid $1166 for it new, S/N 40xxx so must be pretty recent. Running it off a $99 recording interface for now since I'll be amp hunting on my trip to Japan in a few days.
  
 Comfort is great but not last words for me. I have not run into a pair of headphones that wouldn't hurt the top of my head after an hour since the Beyerdynamic T1. The HD800 comes close but doesn't quite match the T1 since it doesn't have as much padding up there. Touching the earpad material feels a little iffy though. Smells like a new car, is it the Alcantara?
  
 I'll hold off on critically judging its sound since I don't have the best amp, but so far it feels more like my old T1 than anything else. Big soundstage, hot treble that brings all the details out, etc. Strangely it doesn't seem to lack bass for me, but the ultra low sub-bass does tend to diffuse a little too fast. Electric bass has a realistic tone to it - as I used to be a bass player. 
  
 The treble has not been bothering me that much, but I now play guitar and tend to turn treble way up on my amp for that "high-end sizzle". Maybe my ears have got somewhat used to it. But I have definitely notice moments where the treble is so hot it robs the instrument being played of its tone and nuances.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> I see, thanks.  I've heard great things about the black dragons.  How do you rate it against the others SQ wise?


 
  
 As long as it is a quality cable I do not find the "night and day" sound signature differences that some do.  If there is any change it is very subtle.
  
 I would not spend a lot of money on cables with hopes of big SQ improvements. 
  
 I do like the Black Dragons.  They are well made with quality materials.  That's why I use them. 
  
 IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada...


----------



## ColtMrFire

mwsvette said:


> As long as it is a quality cable I do not find the "night and day" sound signature differences that some do.  If there is any change it is very subtle.
> 
> I would not spend a lot of money on cables with hopes of big SQ improvements.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I see.  Black Dragon is pretty expensive though.  I would definitely never buy a cable at that price unless I was hearing SQ improvements.


----------



## ColtMrFire

linkpro said:


> Just got my HD800 in, paid $1166 for it new, S/N 40xxx so must be pretty recent. Running it off a $99 recording interface for now since I'll be amp hunting on my trip to Japan in a few days.
> 
> Comfort is great but not last words for me. I have not run into a pair of headphones that wouldn't hurt the top of my head after an hour since the Beyerdynamic T1. The HD800 comes close but doesn't quite match the T1 since it doesn't have as much padding up there. Touching the earpad material feels a little iffy though. Smells like a new car, is it the Alcantara?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I also find the top headband can start to be too tight/too much pressure sometimes on the top of my head.  So I usually just give it a slight upward nudge to give my head some breathing room.  Seems to work.
  
 Yeah, definitely don't judge them until you get a decent amp/dac.  They can sound wildly different depending on the setup.  They give what you feed them.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> I see.  Black Dragon is pretty expensive though.  I would definitely never buy a cable at that price unless I was hearing SQ improvements.


 
  
 Maybe you could hear a difference.  I would not want to mislead anyone.  I have never been a believer that a change of cable is going to change the sound of the cans.
  
 As far as price I personally think all of their prices are too high. 
  
 I only buy them from fellow Head-fiers or on ebay.  But even then only if I can get them cheap.  Even if they do not have the connections I need I can have them reterminated.
  
 I have about a dozen of them Blue, Black and Silver Dragons from 1' to 15' and the most I have in any of them is $125.00.
  
 I will say they are good quality cables...


----------



## ColtMrFire

mwsvette said:


> Maybe you could hear a difference.  I would not want to mislead anyone.  I have never been a believer that a change of cable is going to change the sound of the cans.
> 
> As far as price I personally I think all of their prices are too high.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Gotcha.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Interesting find today about cables and what may seem like improvements actually being trade offs...
  
 I have this older Pangea AC-14SE upgrade power cable.  I was using it on the Bifrost a while back when I owned it.  I do remember it improving the SQ a bit.  The Modi MB I have now uses a wall wart, so the Pangea went in the drawer.  On a lark I tried it on the Jotunheim.  There sound images got slightly thicker and there was a noticeable added euphony to the music.  After listening for a little while though, it was obvious the cable was also flattening the 3 dimensionality of the sound stage a bit...  which is extra important for the HD800.  So what seemed like an improvement ended up being a trade off I wasn't comfortable with.  Granted, this cable was actually designed for source components, but it seemed to have plenty of juice for an amp.
  
 This combined with my recent headphone cable story has been teaching me that what seems like an upgrade isn't always the case, and that it is easy to be distracted by the pluses while ignoring or missing the possible minuses.  That's why it's always probably a good idea when trying a new component to try it for a while then go back to the old component and see if there's anything the new one was compromising.


----------



## Zoom25

coltmrfire said:


> This combined with my recent headphone cable story has been teaching me that what seems like an upgrade isn't always the case, and that it is easy to be distracted by the pluses while ignoring or missing the possible minuses.  That's why it's always probably a good idea when trying a new component to try it for a while then go back to the old component and see if there's anything the new one was compromising.


 
  
 If you ever get into mass loading and/or isolating components, that's the biggest case of trade-offs I've ever experienced. It's very hard to get right. Mind you, this is all with solid state devices...


----------



## RCBinTN

coltmrfire said:


> Interesting find today about cables and what may seem like improvements actually being trade offs...
> 
> I have this older Pangea AC-14SE upgrade power cable.  I was using it on the Bifrost a while back when I owned it.  I do remember it improving the SQ a bit.  The Modi MB I have now uses a wall wart, so the Pangea went in the drawer.  On a lark I tried it on the Jotunheim.  There sound images got slightly thicker and there was a noticeable added euphony to the music.  After listening for a little while though, it was obvious the cable was also flattening the 3 dimensionality of the sound stage a bit...  which is extra important for the HD800.  So what seemed like an improvement ended up being a trade off I wasn't comfortable with.  Granted, this cable was actually designed for source components, but it seemed to have plenty of juice for an amp.
> 
> This combined with my recent headphone cable story has been teaching me that what seems like an upgrade isn't always the case, and that it is easy to be distracted by the pluses while ignoring or missing the possible minuses.  That's why it's always probably a good idea when trying a new component to try it for a while then go back to the old component and see if there's anything the new one was compromising.


 
  
 My experience has been that the HD800, being so resolving, benefit greatly from upgrading the upstream rig.  I have spent a lot of time/money upgrading to get the best sound from the HD800, because I love their sound.  But, you get much more bang for the buck by upgrading the components and music quality/server than from cables.  Those would be low on the list.  However, I've now reached the point of upgrading cables, and am not going back.  The overall rig finally sounds great.
  
 I know that a lot of Head-Fi folks use the Black Widow cables with their HD800, feeling they tame down the treble peak.  You may be able to pick-up some used Black Widows on the for-sale forum.  Also mentioned frequently are Norne cables...
  
 As always, and especially about cables, IMHO!
 RCB


----------



## Rockin_Zombie

New owner of HD800s here. My story goes like this: I own the HE6, listen to it through the speaker taps of First Watt J2. Went to a local store to try out the Sony Z1R. Was not impressed, was about to leave when the guy kinda forced me to try out the HD800S. I have always avoided the HD800 cuz of complain everywhere about treble, lack of bass etc. etc, and since I mostly listen to metal/rock I never thought the tried-and-tested HD800 will be my cup of tea. Boy was I wrong, the headphones instantly put a smile across my face, that soudnstage! And At least the HD800S has plenty of bass, and I guess I am not treble sensitive after all cuz I love every bit of it. HE6 still has upper hand when it comes to sub-bass, but HD800S wins everything else IMO. Especially comfort-wise Audeze/HiFiMan doesn't even come close, after owning all these headphones for so long now I know what "feels like I am wearing nothing" feels like.
  
 BTW, I am running the HD800S through the speaker taps of J2 as well. J2 as excellent output impedance and very low power. The combination is breathtaking, the First Watt amps have a very smooth and warm sound to them which I absolutely love with the HD800S. Swear since I bought these headphones I have been wearing them non-stop when I am at home, the ridiculously long cable helps in that regard too .
  
 I was almost gonna get another set for work but went with a Beyer instead just to add a different flavor. Still keeping the HE6 around just cuz of the drastically different sound signature, but it's gonna get a lot less headtime from now on.
  
  
 Should have jumped on the HD800 bandwagon sooner.


----------



## ColtMrFire

rcbintn said:


> My experience has been that the HD800, being so resolving, benefit greatly from upgrading the upstream rig.  I have spent a lot of time/money upgrading to get the best sound from the HD800, because I love their sound.  But, you get much more bang for the buck by upgrading the components and music quality/server than from cables.  Those would be low on the list.  However, I've now reached the point of upgrading cables, and am not going back.  The overall rig finally sounds great.
> 
> I know that a lot of Head-Fi folks use the Black Widow cables with their HD800, feeling they tame down the treble peak.  You may be able to pick-up some used Black Widows on the for-sale forum.  Also mentioned frequently are Norne cables...
> 
> ...


 
  
 My only problem with the stock cable is that it is kind of dry sounding with the Jotun.


----------



## Thenewguy007

rockin_zombie said:


> BTW, I am running the HD800S through the speaker taps of J2 as well.




Where did you buy HD800 speaker tap adapters from?


----------



## Rockin_Zombie

thenewguy007 said:


> Where did you buy HD800 speaker tap adapters from?


 
 banana-to-XLR adapter, I bought it from Ted (https://headphonelounge.com/headphone-cables/) . He charges less than $80 and ships out within a week.


----------



## ColtMrFire

A few more observations about stock vs balanced with Jotun.  While the balanced cable seems to smear certain details (not offensively so, but noticeable), it does seem to provide a better soundstage image (bigger, more expansive)... Also the stock cable sounds noticeably much drier and therefore a little unnatural with Jotun.  The balanced cable also had a bit more extension in the frequency extremes, and the biggest contribution the balanced provides is that it noticeably enhances the upper midrange, which seems slightly more recessed with the stock.  So there are frustrating pluses and minuses with both cables.  I am thinking of having the stock cable reterminated into balanced (@PETEREK will do it for me for a very reasonable sum).  My only concern is that the dryness will not be remedied by making it balanced and it's something I can see getting tired of very quickly.  The alternative is to try and spring for a whole new balanced cable, but since it is hard to know what it will sound like, it becomes an expensive and not really ideal situation for me.


----------



## PleasantSounds

coltmrfire said:


> A few more observations about stock vs balanced with Jotun.  While the balanced cable seems to smear certain details (not offensively so, but noticeable), it does seem to provide a much better soundstage image... the stock cable seems noticeably more LEFT/RIGHT focused, with the center image a little less distinct.  The balance cable seems to make no LEFT/RIGHT bias, but presents the whole sound field equally in 180 degrees (maybe slightly more).  Also the stock cable sounds noticeably much drier and therefore a little unnatural with Jotun.  The balanced cable also had a bit more extension in the frequency extremes, and the biggest contribution the balanced provides is that it noticeably enhances the upper midrange, which seems slightly more recessed with the stock.  So there are frustrating pluses and minuses with both cables.  I am thinking of having the stock cable reterminated into balanced (@PETEREK will do it for me for a very reasonable sum).  My only concern is that the dryness will not be remedied by making it balanced and it's something I can see getting tired of very quickly.  The alternative is to try and spring for a whole new balanced cable, but since it is hard to know what it will sound like, it becomes an expensive and not really ideal situation for me.


 
  
 Are you sure that the differences are caused by the cable???
 When you use balanced connection, you effectively change the amp configuration and that has much more profound impact than just a bit of wire.
 The dryness you don't like with the stock cable could well be the dryness of the amp in single ended configuration.


----------



## ColtMrFire

pleasantsounds said:


> Are you sure that the differences are caused by the cable???
> When you use balanced connection, you effectively change the amp configuration and that has much more profound impact than just a bit of wire.
> The dryness you don't like with the stock cable could well be the dryness of the amp in single ended configuration.


 
  
 Well, one can't listen to headphones without cables, so they are definitely influencing things to a certain extent.  Though I do realize these cables are interacting with the amp, so the amp is also adding its own characteristics per input.  But it is simpler to swap cables since I only have one amp right now, hence the comparisons.  Jotun is too good of an amp to sell right now, there is nothing near its price range that is better.  So I will probably try to balance the stock cable and see what affect it has.  Unfortunately with the HD800 you have to take extra measures to get everything synergized.


----------



## pervysage

coltmrfire said:


> A few more observations about stock vs balanced with Jotun.  While the balanced cable seems to smear certain details (not offensively so, but noticeable), it does seem to provide a better soundstage image (bigger, more expansive)... Also the stock cable sounds noticeably much drier and therefore a little unnatural with Jotun.  The balanced cable also had a bit more extension in the frequency extremes, and the biggest contribution the balanced provides is that it noticeably enhances the upper midrange, which seems slightly more recessed with the stock.  So there are frustrating pluses and minuses with both cables.  I am thinking of having the stock cable reterminated into balanced (@PETEREK
> will do it for me for a very reasonable sum).  My only concern is that the dryness will not be remedied by making it balanced and it's something I can see getting tired of very quickly.  The alternative is to try and spring for a whole new balanced cable, but since it is hard to know what it will sound like, it becomes an expensive and not really ideal situation for me.




When I got my stock cable reterminated by Peterek I got a tiny bit of the wire made into a 6.3mm to female XLR adapter. So your newly reterminated balanced cable can still be used in single-ended mode.


----------



## johnjen

coltmrfire said:


> snip
> I am thinking of having the stock cable reterminated into balanced (@PETEREK will do it for me for a very reasonable sum).  snip


 
 When the 800's first came out one trick was to shorten the stock cable by ≈ 1/2(±).
  
 The stock cable isn't all that bad and is well made but shortening it will help the 800's come into better focus.
  
 Also as was mentioned you can add a 4-pin xlr connector to the TRS connector which allow connecting your 800's to SE operation if need be.
  
 All of this is fairly inexpensive and gives you options.
  
 JJ


----------



## FredrikT92

rockin_zombie said:


> New owner of HD800s here. My story goes like this: I own the HE6, listen to it through the speaker taps of First Watt J2. Went to a local store to try out the Sony Z1R. Was not impressed, was about to leave when the guy kinda forced me to try out the HD800S. I have always avoided the HD800 cuz of complain everywhere about treble, lack of bass etc. etc, and since I mostly listen to metal/rock I never thought the tried-and-tested HD800 will be my cup of tea. Boy was I wrong, the headphones instantly put a smile across my face, that soudnstage! And At least the HD800S has plenty of bass, and I guess I am not treble sensitive after all cuz I love every bit of it. HE6 still has upper hand when it comes to sub-bass, but HD800S wins everything else IMO. Especially comfort-wise Audeze/HiFiMan doesn't even come close, after owning all these headphones for so long now I know what "feels like I am wearing nothing" feels like.
> 
> BTW, I am running the HD800S through the speaker taps of J2 as well. J2 as excellent output impedance and very low power. The combination is breathtaking, the First Watt amps have a very smooth and warm sound to them which I absolutely love with the HD800S. Swear since I bought these headphones I have been wearing them non-stop when I am at home, the ridiculously long cable helps in that regard too .
> 
> ...


 
  
 FirstWatt makes everything sound better!
 I had my LCD-3s connected to a FirstWatt F6 when I had HE-6 myself.
 So smooth and liquid!


----------



## ColtMrFire

Looking to get a better matching amp and save some money, I sold Jotunheim and got a Lyr 1 from a local seller for a steal.  And I must say my HD800 finally came alive.  Now I know why people say these headphones love tubes.  Man, so euphonic... almost overwhelmingly so.  But not mushy at all, very dynamic, clear and detailed... just a delight, especially with Modi MB.  It really takes the edge off these beasts.


----------



## Fearless1

coltmrfire said:


> Looking to get a better matching amp and save some money, I sold Jotunheim and got a Lyr 1 from a local seller for a steal.  And I must say my HD800 finally came alive.  Now I know why people say these headphones love tubes.  Man, so euphonic... almost overwhelmingly so.  But not mushy at all, very dynamic, clear and detailed... just a delight, especially with Modi MB.  It really takes the edge off these beasts.




Out of courisoty, what is on your radar as far as tube amps?


----------



## ColtMrFire

fearless1 said:


> Out of courisoty, what is on your radar as far as tube amps?




Not sure. Why?


----------



## 13713

coltmrfire said:


> Looking to get a better matching amp and save some money, I sold Jotunheim and got a Lyr 1 from a local seller for a steal.  And I must say my HD800 finally came alive.  Now I know why people say these headphones love tubes.  Man, so euphonic... almost overwhelmingly so.  But not mushy at all, very dynamic, clear and detailed... just a delight, especially with Modi MB.  It really takes the edge off these beasts.




If you ever get a chance you need to try the V281 fully balanced and the EC Balancing Act.


----------



## Fearless1

coltmrfire said:


> Not sure. Why?




Because I have tried about 15, figured I could share impressions.


----------



## ColtMrFire

fearless1 said:


> Because I have tried about 15, figured I could share impressions.




I think ill wait until I have money for a new tube amp. Thanks.

At any rate sonarworks sounds alot better with Lyr. I also put the Mimby computer setting at 16bit/176khz and reduced latency. I can see what people mean now. Sounds better than HD800S I demoed.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

The WA5 and WA22-SE (prototype) are currently my favorite pairings with HD800. Both thread this delicious needle of transparency and euphony, and HD800 itself handles the detail retrieval.


----------



## Amictus

All those who doubt the ability of the HD800 to give enough emphasis to the bass should listen to the 1958 Kingsway Hall recording of Sibelius' Violin Concerto with Ruggiero Ricci. The London Underground trains come through loud and clear!


----------



## FLTWS

amictus said:


> All those who doubt the ability of the HD800 to give enough emphasis to the bass should listen to the 1958 Kingsway Hall recording of Sibelius' Violin Concerto with Ruggiero Ricci. The London Underground trains come through loud and clear!


 
  
 In my experience it's been more about the quality of the recording than the bass capability of the HD800. I've been on a Prokofiev bender lately, comparing multiple versions I have on CD of Nevsky, Kije, Symphony 5, and the piano concertos. The bass on some sound almost as deep, full, and impact-ful as what I have experienced in the concert hall. And the 800 is really good at is delineating the bass response differences between recording venues with respect to miking distance, placement, and hall air. Older recordings made for release on LP before digital recording/playback was even thought about sound as if the masters were cut with the (obvious) intent of keeping the needle in the groove, and throttled back accordingly or miked less closely, compared to more current DDD recordings.


----------



## Dexon

fltws said:


> The bass on some sound almost as deep, full, and impact-ful as what I have experienced in the concert hall.


 
  
 Wow! What amp did you listen to while getting to that conclusion?


----------



## FLTWS

dexon said:


> Wow! What amp did you listen to while getting to that conclusion?


 
  
 Any one of my 3 Schiits. To my ears the differences are generally small in degree. In most cases I hear the differences between boxes and  wires generally as reported by others but I don't accredit them the same weight in the over all listening experience. I hear them but there just not that significant to me in the bigger picture. If manufactures claim their electronics are accurate and neutral, then there shouldn't be sizable differences in the perceived sound, right? How could they possible be so different and yet claim to be accurate and neutral and sound very different from one another? Are there different types of accurate and neutral? The day/night differences for me come in to play at the recording and transducer ends. No collection of boxes and wires is going to make some of my 60-70's DG's sound deep, full-bodied, or impact-ful in the bass.
  
 To quote myself from several months ago:
  
_I own MJ2, Ragnarok, and Jodie. They are all cut from the same cloth and voiced by the same design team so no surprise there._
  
_The differences between them are not earth shattering to my ears. Tonal reproduction, imaging, and depth are extremely similar._
  
_Yes the MJ2 is a touch soft on the bottom and doesn't reach as deep with authority and it's not quite as crisp and clean at the very top compared to Raggy and Jodie, but the mid-range has a bit of that sculpted presentation tubes are noted for and that I enjoy. And, the sound with MJ2 is highly dependent on the tube types (or LISST's) in the holes._
  
_The Jodie is a steal at $399.00, reaches into the bass with detail and depth, the highs are slightly brighter than either of the other, and the mid-range is just a bit forward (probably why so many rave about vocals through Jodie)._
  
_Raggy features some of the better sonic aspects of both to my ears and is more dynamic / effortless sounding and is the porridge that's just right temperature for me with my music of choice. I've got many months ahead of demoing / comparing the 3 with different headphones, so I've lots to experience yet. And in my experience so far it takes a lot of time to ferret out these small differences repeatably._
  
_Still, I expect the differences I am able to identify between the 3 will be piddling in nature compared to the differences in the sound of different headphones. Some headphones might exhibit better synergism with 1 or 2 of the 3  and not all 3, but the differences will still not be anything major between these 3 amps. I think that can (and should) be said of most well designed amps now days that claim to be neutral so as to allow the source material to reveal itself to the fullest._
  
_Someday I'd love to audition one of the top end Cavalli's or Woo's, and probably will. Until then I have no regrets with my Schiit purchases and am having a lot of fun in the process of evaluating headphones. _

_Edited by FLTWS - 11/11/16 at 6:33pm _
  
 I still stand by what I wrote then. I was out of this hobby for 12+ years until January of 2016. Back around 2000 I found myself getting too focused on the hardware to the exclusion of the music and was not enjoying my listening experience with recorded music anymore. I dropped out and sold all my high-end gear and downsized my life in preparation for retirement. Sony Walkman CD and a Bose CD player took care of my canned music needs and I moved on to big screen home theater indulgence. I never stopped going to live classical concerts however, (since the 70's). Over the past year I've rediscovered the enjoyment of listening to and comparing recordings for their musical content, performances, and recording qualities. I acquired all of the Schiit pieces and my collection of wires as much as an academic exercise as anything. Schiit fit my pocketbook so I could buy a lot of Schiit. It had most of the features I wanted now as a headphone-ophile. And, I liked the aesthetics. I approached the wiring packages the same way. The conclusions I've come to for myself are that the source and the transducer determine most of what the listening experience outcome will be. To me, the boxes and wires make very small differences in the sound of the music compared to the recording and the transducer. I don't envy those who do reviewing of this hardware/cable stuff for a living, it's hard work. I've listened to a number of other HP amps and DACs but found that the more I concentrate on the music (which is after all why I bother with this stuff at all) the happier I am as a listener and the smaller the subjective differences between boxes and wires become.
  
 I have some other gear that allows me to hear similar comparisons in recordings, but with slightly different presentations. I'm certain I could also put together rigs I enjoy just as much, or better, (or not), with Cavalli, or Woo, or Chord, etc., for myself and be just as satisfied (pocketbook not withstanding). But as long as I stay focused on the music and accept the fact that I can't change the quality of the recordings but that I can effect large differences with the transducer. Here on Head-Fi HP's are referred to as "fun", "best for this or that genre", "all arounder's", "wide / narrow imagers", "deep /shallow imagers", "stable / wandering imagers", dynamic / constrained"...
  
 If all the different brands of boxes and wires produced this degree of variety between them I don't see how it would be possible to put together a rig that would be worth listening to.
  
 And yes, I feel the HD800 can mimic deep bass sound wave pressure on my eardrums that help me suspend belief that I'm listening to a recording if that recording was made appropriately. And that's at 60 to 70dB average listening level by my sound level meter. And even if the bass energy isn't as deep HZ measurement wise so what, it's about the illusion, the listeners expectations, the listeners past experiences. What the HD800, or any other HP for that matter, cannot do is energize the room air to make me feel it throughout my body through HP's like happens in the concert hall. Even in room speakers I've heard, regardless of cost, fail miserably compared to the live experience. 
  
 I find it's not much about the amp, it's all about the recording first and the HP second. And the HP is where I will put the lions share of my budget.


----------



## ColtMrFire

The recording becomes pretty damn important the more resolving your chain is.  I now do alot more research on what the best masters are for classical and jazz pieces.  It's actually alot of fun though, because you end up learning alot about the process.
  
 Schiit Lyr continues to impress with the HD800.  Swapping out the stock tubes for some Bugle Boys in a couple days, so we'll see...


----------



## MattTCG

If you want to see what the hd800 with SW can do with sub bass, try Frazey Ford: Obadiah (bluesy, folksy, jazzy female singer). Insane extension and quality sub bass...


----------



## ColtMrFire

I take back what I said about sonaworks/HD800 combo. That schiit is amazing. Something must have been wrong with my computer. The bass! The HD800 is now a bass head can? Nuts. The bass is like a punch in the gut. And the midrange is... ridiculous. You can hear more now that everything is balanced. What a crazy upgrade. Sounds like a $4K headphone now.


----------



## johnjen

Don't cha love it when a plan comes together?

Now comes the task of dialing it in...

JJ


----------



## ColtMrFire

The thing about sonarworks is that it takes all the flaws and eliminates them while increasing the strengths.  But I still prefer the stock configuration for classical and jazz, something about the extended top end works better for me..but i still haven't messed with dialing it in much, so we will see.  SW for me works best with pop, rock, vocals, rap, etc...  I just wish the Mimby had a better usb implementation... it's supposedly not even as good as the gen 2 in the Gumby.  So that's the only caveat for my setup.


----------



## TheRealMVT

So I bit the bullet and bought the Superdupont resonator mod for the HD800. Anyone else here has done this mod as well? I'm not hearing that much of a difference to be honest.


----------



## twiceboss

therealmvt said:


> So I bit the bullet and bought the Superdupont resonator mod for the HD800. Anyone else here has done this mod as well? I'm not hearing that much of a difference to be honest.




Used to plan getting one of the mods. Still I don't know how it sounds. Really no different?


----------



## MWSVette

twiceboss said:


> Used to plan getting one of the mods. Still I don't know how it sounds. Really no different?


 

 I do want to try one.  I have heard great thing about this mod...


----------



## TheRealMVT

twiceboss said:


> Used to plan getting one of the mods. Still I don't know how it sounds. Really no different?


 

 Maybe it's just that I expected more, or that I'm less bothered by the 6kHz peak than I expected. Still it sounds fantastic nonetheless. I use it with a Schiit Modi2u and a Vali2 with Philips PCC88 tube, which might explain some of it. (tube damping the treble a bit would be my guess.) I could tube roll it with the default tube and check if that makes a difference.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

I'm surprised to hear that.  For me it was a massive change.  I was blown away by the difference that the SDR made (in a very, very good way).  It brought the 6k peak down which seemed to make the entire spectrum cleaner and more audible.  I've rolled tubes that made less of an impact than the SDR.


----------



## ColtMrFire

If using sonarworks is any comparison, it seems to balance the entire frequency range so you have an easier listening experience and hear a little bit deeper into the sound.  Not sure if the SDR increases the bass though like SW.
  
 Honestly switching to a Schiit Lyr amp eliminated any issue with the treble peak, but I do like SW for what it does to the headphones, like I experienced with my other two Sennheisers.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Sonarworks is more extreme than the SDR and has more of an impact on the sound.  The SDR mod is designed to just tackle the 6k spike.


----------



## bearFNF

I just put it into mine a few weeks ago and to me it took some of the edges off the treble. If that makes sense. Smoother and less fatiguing?? This is with the liquid gold.


----------



## twiceboss

coltmrfire said:


> If using sonarworks is any comparison, it seems to balance the entire frequency range so you have an easier listening experience and hear a little bit deeper into the sound.  Not sure if the SDR increases the bass though like SW.
> 
> Honestly switching to a Schiit Lyr amp eliminated any issue with the treble peak, but I do like SW for what it does to the headphones, like I experienced with my other two Sennheisers.




Is SW free?


----------



## MattTCG

twiceboss said:


> Is SW free?


 
  
 They have a free trial. So it will cost you nothing give it a shot. I think regular price is $99 but there have been sales from time to time. 
  
 Sorry didn't mean to jump in.


----------



## twiceboss

matttcg said:


> They have a free trial. So it will cost you nothing give it a shot. I think regular price is $99 but there have been sales from time to time.
> 
> Sorry didn't mean to jump in.




Gonna try tonight. Is it hard to install it?


----------



## MattTCG

twiceboss said:


> Gonna try tonight. Is it hard to install it?


 
  
 Took me about 10 minutes. Just hop over to the Sonarworks thread and have a look for your player (use search) and should be no problem.


----------



## twiceboss

matttcg said:


> Took me about 10 minutes. Just hop over to the Sonarworks thread and have a look for your player (use search) and should be no problem.


----------



## RCBinTN

You know, it continues to amaze me how folks are re-discovering how good the HD800 sound with different DACs, amps or equalization. Just shows what an exceptional HP they really are. Seems like the phrase "they scale well" was invented to describe the HD800. I know that I love mine, and haven't even tried the EQ idea yet - maybe in the future!
  
 Cheers all,
 RCB


----------



## Zoom25

You can also try to manually EQ. In Audirvana Plus, I use Apple's 31 band AUGraphicEQ. For those wondering, this is stock and included with every Mac and thus Audirvana Plus.
  
 You can try to copy the curve of Sonarworks as well. The only difference is that I don't touch the bass at all. I only bring things down in the mids and highs.


----------



## twiceboss

matttcg said:


> Took me about 10 minutes. Just hop over to the Sonarworks thread and have a look for your player (use search) and should be no problem.


 
 Have problems installing SW. Do we need the VBcable and Pedal for this?


----------



## johnjen

coltmrfire said:


> The thing about sonarworks is that it takes all the flaws and eliminates them while increasing the strengths.  But I still prefer the stock configuration for classical and jazz, something about the extended top end works better for me..but i still haven't messed with dialing it in much, so we will see.  SW for me works best with pop, rock, vocals, rap, etc...  I just wish the Mimby had a better usb implementation... it's supposedly not even as good as the gen 2 in the Gumby.  So that's the only caveat for my setup.


 
 If you play with the tilt and bass boost controls inside the Ref3 plugin you can gently (or more aggressively) boost the top end to suit your desires.
  
 JJ


----------



## ColtMrFire

I'm well aware of how SW operates. I've had it for a couple of years.


----------



## MattTCG

twiceboss said:


> Have problems installing SW. Do we need the VBcable and Pedal for this?


 
  
 What is your OS and player?


----------



## cycle53x12

It is amazing how. Sonarworks keeps popping up. I found it to be amazing with the HD 800.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm using pedalboard and macOS. It was a bit involved to install, but my main complaint is the popping sounds that begin to afflict it after 10 minutes or so of use. The processor is nowhere near maxed out so I'm at a loss to explain it. I'm hesitant to buy it because of this popping problem. But when it works SW is excellent especially for pop.


----------



## MikePio

cycle53x12 said:


> It is amazing how. Sonarworks keeps popping up. I found it to be amazing with the HD 800.


 
  
 SonarWorks seems to be the easiest and user friendly option out there for EQ plus it definitely does a great job but after experimenting for some months now with different EQ software I have realized that no matter what EQ software you use it comes at a price. With SonarWorks I have found that the transparency and sound-stage is reduced even when playing around with the wet/dry settings and changing the min/mix etc... phase. I have hesitated about doing any kind of modification to the HD800's but I have finally decided to go with the SuperDupont Resonator mod by Sorrodje. In my setup I have found the peak/treble glare is only annoying on certain recordings and accentuated when doing an a/b with an EQ off/on or different headphone. If the SuperDupont MOD can eliminate or tame the peak and slight reduce that glare then the HD800's it will pretty much be the perfect headphone for me. We will see, I will update you guys with my impressions once the MOD comes in.


----------



## ColtMrFire

mikepio said:


> With SonarWorks I have found that the transparency and sound-stage is reduced even when playing around with the wet/dry settings and changing the min/mix etc.


 
  
 In my own experience with this headphone and EQ/SW, the soundstage seems to be directly tied to the treble peak... whenever I've reduced the peak, the soundstage gets altered/reduced... with SW there was noticeable reduction of depth.  The benefit of an easier listen, more bass and a more pronounced midrange outweighed this though.   I don't mind this for pop/rock/rap, but like I said earlier, I prefer not to use it for classical and jazz because of this.  It seems the curse of this headphone is also its blessing (but since I've gotten the Lyr, the treble hasn't been a problem).  This is just my own personal experience mind you, so take that as you will.


----------



## cycle53x12

I wonder if that peak is responsible for giving the impression of more space. I guess perfect is always a chase, but darn good seems to me where I am right now.


----------



## AlanU

cycle53x12 said:


> I wonder if that peak is responsible for giving the impression of more space. I guess perfect is always a chase, but darn good seems to me where I am right now.


 
  I find the HD800 "different".  I'll put them on in certain moods I'm in. I'll throw on the HD650 or HE400i and also have very similar enjoyment but with less fatiguing moments while listening for longer durations. 
  
 I've actually had a brand new hd650 sponge liner on hand. I put it on my HD800 with your typical felt lined Anax mod. I find my HD800 alot more enjoyable now. It provides a big sound stage (to be honest it so not near what source intended) but with the sponge liner it even reduces treble shrill that can be fatiguing. It still has incredible clarity but i almost find it more engaging and less analytical. 
  
 The stock hd800 liner is awkward when you try to install it over the anax mod.


----------



## MikePio

coltmrfire said:


> In my own experience with this headphone and EQ/SW, the soundstage seems to be directly tied to the treble peak... whenever I've reduced the peak, the soundstage gets altered/reduced... with SW there was noticeable reduction of depth.  The benefit of an easier listen, more bass and a more pronounced midrange outweighed this though.   I don't mind this for pop/rock/rap, but like I said earlier, I prefer not to use it for classical and jazz because of this.  It seems the curse of this headphone is also its blessing (but since I've gotten the Lyr, the treble hasn't been a problem).  This is just my own personal experience mind you, so take that as you will.


 
 Very true, seems like there will always be a trade off and I guess the best would be to find a middle ground ( I am still searching ) where you still retain most of the transparency and sound-stage while reducing the treble glare and perhaps (if possible) add some more weight and substance to the overall sound without compromising too much. I am sure a solid amplifier such as the Lyr would help remedy the treble but the sonic characteristics will still be there when compared to other headphones that don't have the peak. In the end, even with high end amps the problem is still there, just it is more bearable.


----------



## ColtMrFire

With the Lyr, I don't find the peak to be a problem (especially with the better Bugle Boys tubes I use).  In fact, the soundstage/treble is one of the best characteristics in terms of presenting a refined and realistic sound image for me so far.  The treble peak was never a huge problem for me.
  
 I ended up getting an SL Waber noise/surge filter, because the power in my house was dirty.  It made a pretty dramatic difference, as the 800 must have been picking that garbage up and transferring it to the treble.  Now that I have that, the Lyr and the upgraded tubes, I have not had issues with the peak at all.  I even played my most sibilant/harshest album (Sade's greatest hits) and it was a smooth, easy listen.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm tempted to get the baby orpheus on the classifieds because I think it would so perfectly complement the HD800. The problem, of course, is that you need an amp twice its price to make it sound its best—Aristaeus, BHSE, Carbon, etc., and if you're going that route you might as well give up dynamic headphones entirely and get the SR-009 for accuracy.
  
 I can't get over how Sennheiser has this split personality, giving us the best in euphony (HD650 and the orpheus series) and perhaps the most clinically accurate (HD800, perhaps Orpheus successor?).


----------



## AlanU

coltmrfire said:


> With the Lyr, I don't find the peak to be a problem (especially with the better Bugle Boys tubes I use).  In fact, the soundstage/treble is one of the best characteristics in terms of presenting a refined and realistic sound image for me so far.  The treble peak was never a huge problem for me.
> 
> I ended up getting an SL Waber noise/surge filter, because the power in my house was dirty.  It made a pretty dramatic difference, as the 800 must have been picking that garbage up and transferring it to the treble.  Now that I have that, the Lyr and the upgraded tubes, I have not had issues with the peak at all.  I even played my most sibilant/harshest album (Sade's greatest hits) and it was a smooth, easy listen.


 
  I've never used a Waber noise/surge filter. There are a tonne of products out there from isolation transformers from Bryston to passive setups like Blue circle. Even such devices can potentially change sound signatures. My Hifi stereo setup is all conditioned by blue circle. Even my headphone rig is using a Blue circle filter. 
  
 I still feel the HD800 can become more musical with tube gear to roll off the high's while still retaining uncongested output.


----------



## Sorrodje

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'm tempted to get the baby orpheus on the classifieds because I think it would so perfectly complement the HD800. The problem, of course, is that you need an amp twice its price to make it sound its best—Aristaeus, BHSE, Carbon, etc., and if you're going that route you might as well give up dynamic headphones entirely and get the SR-009 for accuracy.
> 
> I can't get over how Sennheiser has this split personality, giving us the best in euphony (HD650 and the orpheus series) and perhaps the most clinically accurate (HD800, perhaps Orpheus successor?).


 
  
 Yup. the HE60 is a nice compliment for a HD800. they're both very close and very different and I like to switch between them. You can do a google search and find  a few impressions we gave recently here or there on diffferent pairings including BHSE , a modded 727 and my SRX+. this on is much more affordable than all amplifiers you listed but still offers a very very good performance. 
  
 I fell in love with my HE60 more than a year ago and the honeymoon didn't stop. Nevertheless mine is in absolutely mint condition and it matters a lot. Drivers, Pads, O-rings have to be in perfect shape if you want your HE60 sounds at its best.


----------



## ColtMrFire

alanu said:


> I've never used a Waber noise/surge filter. There are a tonne of products out there from isolation transformers from Bryston to passive setups like Blue circle. Even such devices can potentially change sound signatures. My Hifi stereo setup is all conditioned by blue circle. Even my headphone rig is using a Blue circle filter.
> 
> I still feel the HD800 can become more musical with tube gear to roll off the high's while still retaining uncongested output.




The Waber altered the sound alright...made it sound a helluva lot better. Virtually eliminated the noise floor.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

sorrodje said:


> Yup. the HE60 is a nice compliment for a HD800. they're both very close and very different and I like to switch between them. You can do a google search and find  a few impressions we gave recently here or there on diffferent pairings including BHSE , a modded 727 and my SRX+. this on is much more affordable than all amplifiers you listed but still offers a very very good performance.
> 
> I fell in love with my HE60 more than a year ago and the honeymoon didn't stop. Nevertheless mine is in absolutely mint condition and it matters a lot. Drivers, Pads, O-rings have to be in perfect shape if you want your HE60 sounds at its best.


 

 What do you make of Mjolnir-Audio's take on the GES, for a little under 2k? And how do you mod a 727?


----------



## Sorrodje

@bosiemoncrieff : can't tell for the GES. never heard it.  for the 727 mod , it's a little modification in the feedback circuit i think. Google will help you to find links I can't provide here.


----------



## Ali-Pacha

Member of the club since 2 weeks. My first shot was with @Sorrodje's unit, before all his work on mods, and I already knew I'll end up with one pair someday. So when a SD-modded pair in very good shape crossed my path at the lowest price I've ever seen...well...that was inevitable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 You may read here and there what I'm thinking about HD800, there's no accident those cans are among the very rare ones stat's zealots do tolerate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ali


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Would the better complement to hd800, especially for piano music, be he1000 or baby Orpheus?


----------



## BingCrosby1903

So the stock HD800 cable has broken for the second time. I really don't want to pay the price of a Hd600 for a 2nd replacement. Is there any company like Blue Jeans Cable that does a HD800 cable? I'm not after an exotic aftermarket, just a high quality and durable alternative to the original. Thanks.


----------



## jamesino

What are the HD800 stock ear pads made from? Some sites say it's Alcantara, while others say it's microfiber. Are they the same thing?


----------



## ColtMrFire

How on earth does one break the stock cable?  It seems fairly well constructed.


----------



## BingCrosby1903

coltmrfire said:


> How on earth does one break the stock cable?  It seems fairly well constructed.


 
 The rubber insulation has cracked both times. They've never been dropped and always stay in the box. It seems they have an insatiable desire to tangle, which is why I assume they break. To think I had a HD 650 cable for 8 years, which only broke when I stamped on it when a Huntsman jumped out from behind my monitor at 4 am.


----------



## ColtMrFire

That's incredibly odd for it to happen twice.  Maybe once, but twice is weird.  I would think Sennheiser would have built the cable better than that.  Has anyone else had this issue?


----------



## Rozenberg

coltmrfire said:


> That's incredibly odd for it to happen twice.  Maybe once, but twice is weird.  I would think Sennheiser would have built the cable better than that.  Has anyone else had this issue?


 
 Actually the fact that there isn't much report about the cable breaking already says that Sennheiser built the cable pretty well. It depends on how the owner treats it.
  
 And no, my HD800 is old but cable still works fine.


----------



## ColtMrFire

rozenberg said:


> Actually the fact that there isn't much report about the cable breaking already says that Sennheiser built the cable pretty well. It depends on how the owner treats it.
> 
> And no, my HD800 is old but cable still works fine.


 
  
 Yeah.  I just don't understand how a cable (from any headphone) can break by just sitting in a box.  That makes no sense to me.  I'm not calling anyone a liar by the way.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I had a friend break his HD800 cable when putting it into the box. I guess there are certain moves and twists the cable does not appreciate much. 
  
 Mine are all ok until this day but I'm also very careful with my stuff.


----------



## BingCrosby1903

fegefeuer said:


> I had a friend break his HD800 cable when putting it into the box. I guess there are certain moves and twists the cable does not appreciate much.
> 
> Mine are all ok until this day.


 
  
 Quite possibly. I should clarify that phones sit in the box with the lid open and the rest of the chord draping down. I was extremely annoyed to see it happen the second time. There are other reports of it happening. I do live in Sydney, so perhaps the heat doesn't help. I can recall German car rubber trims having problems in Australia a long time ago.
  
 As I said, I'm looking for an alternative this time.


----------



## Rozenberg

Only possible way I could think of the cable breaking inside the box is when you wrap the cable and put it inside the box. I used to do that and noticed if I forced the whole cable inside its space, the rubber strain relief would get bent.
 I also avoid leaving the cable hanging down. Best way is probably to just leave it plugged into the amp, or put it on a flat surface.
  
 Also if your cable is broken, you might want to consider finding someone to just solder new connector. Might be cheaper than buying new since the price of stock cable is pretty ridiculous.


----------



## DavidA

bingcrosby1903 said:


> Quite possibly. I should clarify that phones sit in the box with the lid open and the rest of the chord draping down. I was extremely annoyed to see it happen the second time. There are other reports of it happening. I do live in Sydney, so perhaps the heat doesn't help. I can recall German car rubber trims having problems in Australia a long time ago.
> 
> As I said, I'm looking for an alternative this time.


 
 HD-800 cables are pricy due to the connectors, its a complicated design and not the easiest to work with.  The average price of the connectors are $40-60 so a complete cable is usually about $100 at the low end.  I don't think its the heat, more likely the ozone breaking down the rubber like it does with tires and other rubber items.


----------



## cycle53x12

Interesting about the cables breaking. Mine have not lived a charmed life but are still working great and my HD's are some of the Earlier ones. They do seem to be well made compared to the ones on the HD600,650 series.


----------



## jibzilla

bingcrosby1903 said:


> So the stock HD800 cable has broken for the second time. I really don't want to pay the price of a Hd600 for a 2nd replacement. Is there any company like Blue Jeans Cable that does a HD800 cable? I'm not after an exotic aftermarket, just a high quality and durable alternative to the original. Thanks.


 
  
 I will sell you my stock cable for next to nothing. Send me a PM. Sorry this happened to you, especially twice.


----------



## JaZZ

My second HD 800 cable is about to break as well again – interrupts in the right channel, apparently due to a short-circuit at or within the connector. A reason to switch to a Black Dragon, which doesn't cost much more – and offers a different flavor that I happen to like quite a bit: very smooth, bordering on artificiality, but musical and resolving nonetheless.


----------



## FLTWS

jazz said:


> My second HD 800 cable is about to break as well again – interrupts in the right channel, apparently due to a short-circuit at or within the connector. A reason to switch to a Black Dragon, which doesn't cost much more – and offers a different flavor that I happen to like quite a bit: very smooth, bordering on artificiality, but musical and resolving nonetheless.


 
  
 I agree, if I were using the Senn stock cable and having issues, the Black Dragon is the way I'd go for the money. I paid $290 for a 10 footer of the standard V2 with a 4 pin XLR and I like the sound of it with my HD800. (I think there is also a more expensive "Premium" V2 with more costly connectors). Don't know how $290 compares to the cost of a new Senn stock cable. I also "suspect" if a mechanical issue comes up with Moon's Black Dragons they could repair it quickly and cost effectively. The cable coils nicely as well for storage and are relatively light weight. I never figure "8" my cables.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

In retrospect, I wish I'd gone with the stock balanced cable. VenusAudio sounds fine and the cable itself is great, but the connectors are always a little loose, even after I returned the first cable and got a replacement. Stock 1/4 inch cable connectors snap right in and stay there.


----------



## eeagle

bosiemoncrieff said:


> In retrospect, I wish I'd gone with the stock balanced cable. VenusAudio sounds fine and the cable itself is great, but the connectors are always a little loose, even after I returned the first cable and got a replacement. Stock 1/4 inch cable connectors snap right in and stay there.


 
 I recently picked up the ZY Cable 6N Upgrade for SENNHEISER HD 800 Headphones Balanced 4Pins XLR on ebay/hiendgurunyc to use with my recently acquired HDVD 800 and am quite happy with it.  The cable has been on Massdrop a while back as well.
  
 The stock cable was quite tight, and I wondered at first if I was missing a latch button, but they do just pull out.  The new cable is tight as well.
  
 Thus far I have not seen a dramatic sound improvement over the single ended cable, but will do more critical listening.


----------



## FLTWS

My stock cables connectors were so tight and I had to apply so much force to squeeze and hold the HD800 ear cup housing and pull on the cable connector to remove the cable, I was afraid at some point I could see my fingers slipping on the housing and ripping right through the mesh, or slipping off the connector and ripping the cable off from the connector.
  
 Both my Black Dragon and Dana connectors slide in and out with ease, I've never noticed any connectivity issues over the past 7 months with HD800 and these connectors.


----------



## jussi2013

Which mods are recommended today, if I just want to make it closer to 800S, and don't want to test everything?
  
 SuperDupont Resonator + Dust Covers removed, that's it?


----------



## AlanU

jussi2013 said:


> Which mods are recommended today, if I just want to make it closer to 800S, and don't want to test everything?
> 
> SuperDupont Resonator + Dust Covers removed, that's it?


 
  
 Just recently I've simply kept my Anax mod and used my HD650 sponge dust cover. I will have to say this has been a pleasant mod for me.
  
 Not sure what you use for amplification but when I add my Stello U3 usb/spdif converter to my Burson Virtuoso it really smooths out the HD800. I've even tested my old jds 02 amp, stello u3, Burson dac with Grant fidelity tube buffer and it's surprised me in how it tames the HD800. 
  
 SuperDupont seems like a nice mod if your willing to roll the adhesive covers off your HD800.


----------



## Sorrodje

jussi2013 said:


> SuperDupont Resonator + Dust Covers removed, that's it?


 
  
 My Dust covers are still there. No need to remove them if you don't want to.


----------



## krumley7882

Trying out the H2 cable on the 800s. PM me if interested in the (new) stock Senn cables.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I love my new Norne Audio Draug 2 balanced cable. Well matched to both amp and headphone, too!


----------



## twiceboss

I just installed superdupont mode but using comply large tips. Will it count? i feel the slight different though. Some said Shure will be better tips for the superdupont


----------



## bigfatpaulie

twiceboss said:


> I just installed superdupont mode but using comply large tips. Will it count? i feel the slight different though. Some said Shure will be better tips for the superdupont


 
  
 Tips?  Like tips from IEM's?  The SDR is quite a bit more complicated than just a piece of foam...  The real thing isn't expensive and you can them directly from @Sorrodje


----------



## twiceboss

bigfatpaulie said:


> Tips?  Like tips from IEM's?  The SDR is quite a bit more complicated than just a piece of foam...  The real thing isn't expensive and you can them directly from @Sorrodje


 
 Would love to have the original one. But im lazy to make one. Will @Sorrodje  sell it?


----------



## twiceboss

twiceboss said:


> Would love to have the original one. But im lazy to make one. Will @Sorrodje  sell it?


 
 Just realize that......... he is the same person in the thread HAHAHA


----------



## bigfatpaulie

twiceboss said:


> Just realize that......... he is the same person in the thread HAHAHA


 
  
  
 There you go 
  
 That version is like V0.9.  Just PM him - I promise it is worth your time.


----------



## twiceboss

bigfatpaulie said:


> There you go
> 
> That version is like V0.9.  Just PM him - I promise it is worth your time.


 
 Yes sure THANKS!


----------



## jussi2013

alanu said:


> Just recently I've simply kept my Anax mod and used my HD650 sponge dust cover. I will have to say this has been a pleasant mod for me.
> 
> Not sure what you use for amplification but when I add my Stello U3 usb/spdif converter to my Burson Virtuoso it really smooths out the HD800. I've even tested my old jds 02 amp, stello u3, Burson dac with Grant fidelity tube buffer and it's surprised me in how it tames the HD800.
> 
> SuperDupont seems like a nice mod if your willing to roll the adhesive covers off your HD800.


 
 My AMP/DAC is really not up to HD800 level (Yulong U100), I will upgrade both later, but at least it can drive it for now. I got this used at a good price (with Cardas cable).
  
 Home theater project is also taking my money and time.
  
 Ok, I have to investigate every current mod and their variants, and choose/try to make ones that sound good (on paper) for me.
  
 SuperDupont seems pretty easy after Denon mods with Dynamat (god I hate that stuff) etc.


sorrodje said:


> My Dust covers are still there. No need to remove them if you don't want to.


 
 Ok, good to know. Seems they are often removed with cork and rug mods though, and some even said that toilet paper sounds better.


----------



## AlanU

jussi2013 said:


> My AMP/DAC is really not up to HD800 level (Yulong U100), I will upgrade both later, but at least it can drive it for now. I got this used at a good price (with Cardas cable).
> 
> Home theater project is also taking my money and time.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Everyone has some form of money pit 
  
 The HD800 for me is a nice alternative to my home hifi stereo setup.  I have substantially more in my Blue Circle power conditioning than all of my headphone gear combined. 
 However my stereo still sounds substantially better than my HD800/HD650 with Tube dac, Burson viruoso combo. 2 channel to me is holographic and truly feels like your deep into the music with a real sense of layers. Just like anything subjective ears and financial "justification"of cost of gear is rampant in all of these forums LOL!!! I do find in audio it's not always a matter of cost $$$$ of gear......combination of different sound characteristics of each component in the gear combo. 
  
 For example an HD650 can probably tolerate a faster paced dac like the Concero HD. It adds more soundstage to the HD650 too. However the HD800 with Concero HD was one of the worst DACs to use with an HD800 making the music sound less engaging, hyper detailed and shrilled till my ears bled.  
  
 So far my ears appreciate tube gear for engaging vocals. Some prefer hyper details listening to solid state. I'll admit the $$$ dacs can potentially sound more analog.  This is where everyone has a preference.......
  
 Have fun with the home theater setup   My HT setup has been one of the most enjoyable audio setups I've ever spent $$$ on.  
  
 Impress your ears and enjoy your gear!


----------



## screwdriver

Nice combo I tried raga dac r with sennheiser hdva 600 amp , none drug 2 balanced to sennheiser hd800. This combo tames the hd800 well without losing anything .


----------



## ColtMrFire

krumley7882 said:


> Trying out the H2 cable on the 800s. PM me if interested in the (new) stock Senn cables.


 
  
  
 How is that Red Wine amp?


----------



## ruinedx

So I went to the Sennheiser shop in NY and did an A/B demo of the HD800 Vs the HD800S using the Hdvd800 amp. 

Using my favorite reference album (Natalie Merchant Tigerlily), I found the HD800 to consistently outperform the HD800S... Specifically, the HD800 highs sounded "live" and exciting while the HD800S were more subdued and dare I say pedestrian in treble. 

The HD800S also seemed to have more congested bass than the HD800. 

I wonder if this is due to amp mismatch with the HD800S or if I just prefer the HD800 sound? For the record, I prefer the HD700 sound over the HD600 sound with the right amp (using parasound zdac v2 to drive the hd700 currently.)

Thoughts? My only concern is that the HD800 bass might not be enough for electronic music but I was unable to test this. I have heard some say the HD800 has cleaner bass but less of it compared to the HD700 - is this accurate or just an amp issue? I am very satisfied with HD700 bass.


----------



## maarek99

My HD 800 just had it's rubber insulation cracked too. It cracked itself, didn't twist it or drop anything on it... Oh my lord how expensive these cables are! Bought my HD 800 in 2013 so the cables lasted for four years.


----------



## Kenion

maarek99 said:


> My HD 800 just had it's rubber insulation cracked too. It cracked itself, didn't twist it or drop anything on it... Oh my lord how expensive these cables are! Bought my HD 800 in 2013 so the cables lasted for four years.


 
 Exactly this happened to me as well for the second time! lol
 I returned it and got new ones since it was still inside the warranty and now it happened again like only a year later.
 Just ordered an aftermarket cable for these. Definitely not going to spend 200 for the stock ones :X


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

ruinedx said:


> I prefer the HD700 sound over the HD600 sound with the right amp (using parasound zdac v2 to drive the hd700 currently.)
> 
> Thoughts? My only concern is that the HD800 bass might not be enough for electronic music but I was unable to test this. I have heard some say the HD800 has cleaner bass but less of it compared to the HD700 - is this accurate or just an amp issue? I am very satisfied with HD700 bass.


 
 The HD800 does indeed have better bass than the HD700. With Sonarworks, its bass is exceptional for most genres.
  
 I've tried a number of mods to get the best bass out of HD700, and so far my favorites are the "Blendtec®" mod and the "invisible cable" mod. For the first one, take the HD700, and put it in a Blendtec® (you can see this mod applied to an iPad here, and if you don't have a Blendtec®, a Vitamix is an acceptable alternative). Then, puree the HD700 until it is in pieces smaller than 1cm. This bass sounds better than any other configuration I've tried.
  
 For the more reversible "invisible cable" mod, unplug your cable from your amp and from the HD700. Ask a friend or spouse to hide it somewhere in your home. Then, turn on your amp and listen as usual with an invisible cable.


----------



## Nikorasu

Is anybody using the burson supreme opamp v5i with the HD 800? If so how does it sound?


----------



## Me x3

ruinedx said:


> Thoughts? My only concern is that the HD800 bass might not be enough for electronic music but I was unable to test this. I have heard some say the HD800 has cleaner bass but less of it compared to the HD700 - is this accurate or just an amp issue? I am very satisfied with HD700 bass.


 
 Yes, HD800 has a more layered and flatter bass that's less present than HD700's bass.
 HD700's bass while controlled is somehow more mid-bassy (although not as much as HD650's bass) and more monotone than HD800's bass.
  
 Late Tesla T1.1 (sn. over 15.000) has more body in the bass than HD800 and it's similarly layered and detailed.
 In other words, it's closer to HD700 in terms of quantity, but similar to HD800 in terms of quality.


----------



## Zoom25

I wouldn't worry about bass issues on HD 800. It's exceptional for any and every genre. For me it outclassed LCD-2, LCD-3, HE-500, and HE-6.
  
 I would be far more worried about fatigue in long term listening sessions. Sonarworks or manual EQing the HD 800 can fix this.


----------



## Fauxpas58

Hello Everyone, you've got a Newbie here, I apologize in advance for my naïveté.
I've been an (loudspeaker) audiophile since the 1970's (Audio Research, Bozak, etc), and now I want to get into headphones. Unfortunately I've never even had a chance to sit down and listen to well balanced, properly amped/DAC'd headphones (I hang my head in shame), and I can't even find a store with a decent selection! Where do I start?! What am I missing by not having had the opportunity to hear great cans? I want to experience the bliss you all enjoy everyday!
I have a budget of up to $4000, so I can get something quite nice. My problem is, how do you know what I like, what amp goes with what headphones, etc? Seems everyone likes the Senn HD800, so I thought I'd start there. I like all kinds of music (except pop) but I really enjoy louder music with a punch. Female vocals are important. To name a few: Alabama Shakes, Emma Shapplin, Pink Floyd, Dead Can Dance, Chromeo, DJ Krush, Tom Waits, Chemical Brothers, Jonny Lang, Sinatra, etc. 
With this style of music, am I safe with the HD800, or do I need something with more punch? If the 800's are ok, can I get some suggestions on building around them? Does it make sense to pick the headphones first, then choose the DAC/amp? How do you know if you like the headphones if you can't hear them with different amps? Seems like the chicken or the egg dilemma!
Sorry for being so elementary, but I want to enjoy music as much as you do, and I have to start somewhere! Thanks to all in advance for any guidance you can offer!


----------



## Sorrodje

@fauxpas58 : Nope you're not safe with the HD800 and considering the music you listed you may be disappointed. but nowadays a used HD800 is really affordable.
  
 If i were you i'd buy a used HD800 and a Schiit Vali 2.  800/900$ should be enough. Then You'll be able to listen by yourself in good conditions. If you don't like what you hear, try to mod it or use EQ or whatever or sell the Senn and try something else. used headphones is the way to go  .
  
 4K is a huge budget and i think it's kinda risky to spend that kind of money without some experiments before. I highly recommend you to save this budget for now and make the journey step by step. Maybe you can go to a meet and try a lot of headphones there ? 
  
 if you really want to spend safely your money for a brand new expensive headphone rig, i'd say your safer bet is something like a Stax SR-L700 + SRM-006 amp. Great sound , solid combo, Not overly expensive and very easy to love with all kind of music  . 
  
 And it comes from a HD800 nut   .


----------



## ColtMrFire

fauxpas58 said:


> Hello Everyone, you've got a Newbie here, I apologize in advance for my naïveté.
> I've been an (loudspeaker) audiophile since the 1970's (Audio Research, Bozak, etc), and now I want to get into headphones. Unfortunately I've never even had a chance to sit down and listen to well balanced, properly amped/DAC'd headphones (I hang my head in shame), and I can't even find a store with a decent selection! Where do I start?! What am I missing by not having had the opportunity to hear great cans? I want to experience the bliss you all enjoy everyday!
> I have a budget of up to $4000, so I can get something quite nice. My problem is, how do you know what I like, what amp goes with what headphones, etc? Seems everyone likes the Senn HD800, so I thought I'd start there. I like all kinds of music (except pop) but I really enjoy louder music with a punch. Female vocals are important. To name a few: Alabama Shakes, Emma Shapplin, Pink Floyd, Dead Can Dance, Chromeo, DJ Krush, Tom Waits, Chemical Brothers, Jonny Lang, Sinatra, etc.
> With this style of music, am I safe with the HD800, or do I need something with more punch? If the 800's are ok, can I get some suggestions on building around them? Does it make sense to pick the headphones first, then choose the DAC/amp? How do you know if you like the headphones if you can't hear them with different amps? Seems like the chicken or the egg dilemma!
> Sorry for being so elementary, but I want to enjoy music as much as you do, and I have to start somewhere! Thanks to all in advance for any guidance you can offer!


 
  
 Like Sorrodje said, I highly recommend starting with a more modest setup first.  The audio journey for me was more rewarding by making an ascent and hearing better and better gear before I got the HD800 setup.  That way you can start to find out what kind of headphone sound you like.  Warm, dark, bright, fast, slow, tube, solid state, etc...
  
 I started with the HD600 and an Audioengine D1.  It was an amazing first setup.  I had never heard such amazing sound.  Then I got better and better gear and headphones, learning what I liked and didn't.  Eventually I got an HD558, Beyerdynamic DT880, HD650, Beyerdynamic T90, and eventually the HD800.   With a variety of Schiit amps/DACs along the way.  I like Schiit because they're affordable and punch well above their price range in terms of performance.  
  
 Sennheiser is a great company and great place to start.  My personal recommendation would be the HD600, a great affordable audiophile headphone, and maybe a Schiit Magni 2 uber (solid state) or Schiit Vali 2 (tube).  You can audition either for 15 days, and maybe see if you like solid state or tube.  From there you can start to work you way up to better things and enjoy the journey more than the destination.  
  
 The only downside to this is you might lose money reselling things (if bought new, you will definitely lose money), so if $4K is your one time only budget, you'll likely cut into that scaling your way up and  may not have enough to get a dream setup later on. 
  
 So you can ignore us all and right now get a used HD800 ($700), Schiit Gungnir multibit DAC ($1200) and Eddie Current Zana Deux ($2500) and be done forever 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and no one would blame you for it!  You do seem to have good experience with audio already, so you have already been on a journey.


----------



## DavidA

fauxpas58 said:


> Hello Everyone, you've got a Newbie here, I apologize in advance for my naïveté.
> I've been an (loudspeaker) audiophile since the 1970's (Audio Research, Bozak, etc), and now I want to get into headphones. Unfortunately I've never even had a chance to sit down and listen to well balanced, properly amped/DAC'd headphones (I hang my head in shame), and I can't even find a store with a decent selection! Where do I start?! What am I missing by not having had the opportunity to hear great cans? I want to experience the bliss you all enjoy everyday!
> I have a budget of up to $4000, so I can get something quite nice. My problem is, how do you know what I like, what amp goes with what headphones, etc? Seems everyone likes the Senn HD800, so I thought I'd start there. I like all kinds of music (except pop) but I really enjoy louder music with a punch. Female vocals are important. To name a few: Alabama Shakes, Emma Shapplin, Pink Floyd, Dead Can Dance, Chromeo, DJ Krush, Tom Waits, Chemical Brothers, Jonny Lang, Sinatra, etc.
> With this style of music, am I safe with the HD800, or do I need something with more punch? If the 800's are ok, can I get some suggestions on building around them? Does it make sense to pick the headphones first, then choose the DAC/amp? How do you know if you like the headphones if you can't hear them with different amps? Seems like the chicken or the egg dilemma!
> Sorry for being so elementary, but I want to enjoy music as much as you do, and I have to start somewhere! Thanks to all in advance for any guidance you can offer!


 
 I would start out with something cheaper and as the other posters noted get used gear first since you have no idea what sound you like.
  
 My suggestion would be HD-650, HE-400i, and RS2e along with a Modi MB DAC and Project Ember amp which will drive all three of these headphones quite well.  My 3 headphone suggestion is one of the most highly regarded dynamic headphone in the HD-650 which has been around for a long time and its what many new headphones get compared to and can be had for $250 used.  The HE-400i is currently very cheap at $275-350 new and is a great example of a planar headphone.  The RS2e ($300-350 used) is a Grado which has a unique sound which is a love/hate with many but if the highs of the RS2e don't bother you then the HD-800 will be no problem.  The Modi MB is $250 and one of the best values in a DAC while the Project Ember ($350) is one of the most versatile amp around due to the changeable output resistance/impedance which will let it pair with a wide range of headphones and since it only has one tube will be a cheaper way to see if tubes is something you like.  You can add a TH-610 or TH-X00 (both around $400) if you want a headphone with a lot of bass and is semi-closed and will not leak as much sound as the other 3.
  
 I have all of these except for the Modi MB (I have the Bifrost MB) and this will give you a very wide range of sound signatures to find your way to sonic bliss


----------



## Youth

Before you spend _any _money go to meets and shops and try out as much as you can.


----------



## greggf

I'll second what legendary Head-Fier Sorrodje says about the STAX system with the L700 headphone:  both audiophile-quality and easy-to-take.  The HD800 may or may not be the kind of sound you're after.


----------



## icebear

fauxpas58 said:


> Hello Everyone, you've got a Newbie here, I apologize in advance for my naïveté....





> I like all kinds of music (except pop) but *I really enjoy louder music with a punch.* Female vocals are important. To name a few: Alabama Shakes, Emma Shapplin, Pink Floyd, Dead Can Dance, Chromeo, DJ Krush, Tom Waits, Chemical Brothers, Jonny Lang, Sinatra, etc.
> With this style of music, am I safe with the HD800, or do I need something with more punch?....


 
 Unless you go for the MOFI remastered Sinatra, you'll most likely be better of with a different headphone than the HD800.
 The HD800 is like an analytical instrument. It will tell you the truth about the recording and sometimes the truth is ugly
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 So basically what everyone else has told you already, if you are keen to try the HD800 go used or listen at a meet or a dealer.
 Otherwise go for different style of sound. "With a punch" is not really what you should expect from an accurate tool.


----------



## Fauxpas58

Wow, thank you all so much for the valuable information! I'm going to spend this morning seeking out a meet. I'm in the SF Bay Area, so there has to be out there. I'll be back with what appealed to me, and then we can explore from there. Again, many thanks to you all for your rapid responses and valuable information.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

fauxpas58 said:


> Wow, thank you all so much for the valuable information! I'm going to spend this morning seeking out a meet. I'm in the SF Bay Area, so there has to be out there. I'll be back with what appealed to me, and then we can explore from there. Again, many thanks to you all for your rapid responses and valuable information.


 

 I believe in having "flavors" of headphones—one that's more euphonic and one that's more analytical. If you have 4k to spend, I'd get a used HD800 ($600-800), Mjolnir 2 ($1050, including aftermarket tubes and LISST), Gumby ($1249), and something more euphonic, either an HD600 ($200-250) or LCD-2 ($500-600). Balanced cables shouldn't be more than $300 total and sonar works is 80. That's well within budget.


----------



## krumley7882

coltmrfire said:


> How is that Red Wine amp?





The RWA is simply stunning! I think it is the most enjoyable amp I have ever owned. Not overly analytical. Nice tube warmth, dynamic and engaging. For such a humble presentation, it hits high above its class.


----------



## MickeyVee

icebear said:


> Unless you go for the MOFI remastered Sinatra, you'll most likely be better of with a different headphone than the HD800.
> The HD800 is like an analytical instrument. It will tell you the truth about the recording and sometimes the truth is ugly
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Just finished listening to a quick set of Hugh Masekela, Lindsey Stirling, INXS, DCD {sublime!}, New Order, Frankie Goes to Hollywood, Alphavile, Enigma, Patricia Barber, N-Tance and what the heck, some Sinatra and Buble. {OK, I'm a child of 80's music and my taste is all over the place}. More musical than analytical; more fun/punchy than sterile.  Bass, detail, air and punch aplomb!  I have a 3M aftermarket cable and find myself dancing in the dark at 3am at times. Properly amped, the HD800 is absolutely the most fun and musical headphone I have heard and I have been to half a dozen meets listening to many different systems {last one had a chance to listen to the Utopia.. meh for the money}. The caveat is that they must  be amped properly. Luckily I have the McIntosh for that but you really don't have to go that crazy. Add Sonarworks into the mix and WOW!
 I guess my experience is different than yours.


----------



## cycle53x12

mickeyvee said:


> Just finished listening to a quick set of Hugh Masekela, Lindsey Stirling, INXS, DCD {sublime!}, New Order, Frankie Goes to Hollywood, Alphavile, Enigma, Patricia Barber, N-Tance and what the heck, some Sinatra and Buble. {OK, I'm a child of 80's music and my taste is all over the place}. More musical than analytical; more fun/punchy than sterile.  Bass, detail, air and punch aplomb!  I have a 3M aftermarket cable and find myself dancing in the dark at 3am at times. Properly amped, the HD800 is absolutely the most fun and musical headphone I have heard and I have been to half a dozen meets listening to many different systems {last one had a chance to listen to the Utopia.. meh for the money}. The caveat is that they must  be amped properly. Luckily I have the McIntosh for that but you really don't have to go that crazy. Add Sonarworks into the mix and WOW!
> I guess my experience is different than yours.


 

 I think the Sonarworks make the HD800 much more tolerant of my music collection. Before I would look for only really well recorded albums. Now I can enjoy more of my music collection without as much pain, and the good ones sound even better to me.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Interesting observation so far regarding tubes...
  
 I'm a huge Radiohead fan, but did not like their last album, A Moon Shaped Pool.  I listened to it maybe 3 or 4 times over the course of several months, trying to give it a chance, but I could never get into it at all.  That was all on solid state gear.
  
 So I just listened to it with the Lyr/Bugle Boy tubes on a lark, and I am really really enjoying it.  Quite surprising.  I also listened to In Rainbows yesterday and had alot more fun with it than usual.  So I am thinking there is something about the romantic quality of tubes that does something special with that kind of pop music...
  
 On the other hand, my experiences with classical music has been mixed.  I have not enjoyed tubes as much as solid state with that genre.  SS seems to have faster/sharper transients and a more "solid" tone, and I think I prefer that with classical especially with that being the HD800's strong suit. 
  
 I am probably going to snag a pair of LISST tubes and use them for classical/jazz, while using glass tubes for everything else, especially pop and vocals.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

fyi "LISST tubes" is like "ATM machine," "pin number," "LCD display," or "The La Brea Tar Pits." It stands for Linear Integral (or integrated? I've seen Jason render it both ways) Solid State Tubes.


----------



## thefitz

I loved my Lyr with LISST, although I only used **** tubes. 

Anybody have experience with the Superdupont mod and the anaxilus mod at the same time?


----------



## Ani1000

How is it possible to prevent the cable from breaking?


----------



## Kramer01

ani1000 said:


> How is it possible to prevent the cable from breaking?


 
 Don't bend them too much and don't yank them from the jack.


----------



## 13713

coltmrfire said:


> Interesting observation so far regarding tubes...
> 
> I'm a huge Radiohead fan, but did not like their last album, A Moon Shaped Pool.  I listened to it maybe 3 or 4 times over the course of several months, trying to give it a chance, but I could never get into it at all.  That was all on solid state gear.
> 
> ...


 
 I absolutely love Radiohead and the last album a Moon Shaped Pool although good just did not resonate with me like the previous albums. With this in mind and your recent journey into tube what other albums have you listened to that you feel tube just brings out the album in a different and perhaps better way.


----------



## ColtMrFire

13713 said:


> I absolutely love Radiohead and the last album a Moon Shaped Pool although good just did not resonate with me like the previous albums. With this in mind and your recent journey into tube what other albums have you listened to that you feel tube just brings out the album in a different and perhaps better way.


 
  
 Pretty much everything.  Tubes seem to bring a romantic quality to things.  And the HD800 seems to really love that.


----------



## ruinedx

Has anyone tried a Violectric V200 combined with an Oppo Sonica or other SABRE32 DAC on stock HD800?
  
 The V200 has a reputation for being a bit dark and the SABRE32 a bit bright, wonder if this would be a good combo


----------



## thyname

Anybody had any experience with Oppo HA-1? Enough power to drive Hd800 adequately?

How about Schiit Asgard 2 / Bifrost combo?


----------



## DavidA

thyname said:


> Anybody had any experience with Oppo HA-1? Enough power to drive Hd800 adequately?
> 
> How about Schiit Asgard 2 / Bifrost combo?


 
 Asgard2/Bifrost not a good pairing with HD-800, a little too bright for me and most everyone who tried.


----------



## thyname

davida said:


> Asgard2/Bifrost not a good pairing with HD-800, a little too bright for me and most everyone who tried.




Even with the SDR mod on HD 800?

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sennheiser-hd-800-s-tweaked-and-delightfuland-french-diy-response#JC5JtkETj0FREt0r.97

How about with Oppo HA-1?


----------



## ruinedx

thyname said:


> Even with the SDR mod on HD 800?
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sennheiser-hd-800-s-tweaked-and-delightfuland-french-diy-response#JC5JtkETj0FREt0r.97
> 
> How about with Oppo HA-1?




I tried the HD700 on the Oppo HA1 and it was painful to listen to. Very bright edgy sound. Would not bother with the HD800. 

HD700 sounds great on a Parasound zdac v2 though. Going to try HD800 on the zdac v2 next week.


----------



## DavidA

thyname said:


> Even with the SDR mod on HD 800?
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sennheiser-hd-800-s-tweaked-and-delightfuland-french-diy-response#JC5JtkETj0FREt0r.97
> 
> How about with Oppo HA-1?


 
 Haven't heard HD-800 with HA-1.
  
 I haven't heard a SDR mod HD-800 with a Asgard2 but did hear a SDR mod HD-800 with a Hugo and it was good but the non-SRD HD-800 was better to me, just personal preference and how we all hear differently.  I think the genre of music also has a bearing on what an individual likes, for me the SRD mod HD-800 lost some of the sound stage with classical and some of the air with jazz but with pop its quite good.


----------



## ruinedx

I was so disappointed with the HA-1.
  
 Even listening to vinyl over analog it was cold, edgy and painful with the HD700.
  
 I know the HD700 can be edgy but it sounds spectacular plugged into my Parasound zDAC v2.  I am getting HD800 next week, will see how that works though I doubt zdac v2 has enough juice.
  
 It seems safest bet if you want solid state in the ~$1k range for HD800 is either Violectric V200 or Eddie Current Black Widow.  The HDVA600 was also a good bet but you can't get that new anymore.
  
 It seems one amp everyone raves about with the HD800 is the Violectric V281 over balanced but its quite a chunk of change.


----------



## Zoom25

ruinedx said:


> I was so disappointed with the HA-1.
> 
> Even listening to vinyl over analog it was cold, edgy and painful with the HD700.
> 
> ...


 
 Bryston BHA-1?


----------



## ruinedx

zoom25 said:


> Bryston BHA-1?




Haven't heard myself but I read it gets hot and is not as smooth as the v200/ecbw/hdva600 w/hd800.


----------



## Nikorasu

Is anybody using the burson supreme opamp v5i with the HD 800? If so how does it sound?


----------



## bigbeard

I am using my hd800 with a bifrost uber and asgard 2...i have always wondered if i am doing the headphones a disservice by running them on that amp? Any suggestions? The headphones do sound amazing, but i don't know if i am getting their full potential.


----------



## Zoom25

ruinedx said:


> Haven't heard myself but I read *it gets hot* and is not as smooth as the v200/ecbw/hdva600 w/hd800.


 
 Class A.


----------



## Me x3

bigbeard said:


> I am using my hd800 with a bifrost uber and asgard 2...i have always wondered if i am doing the headphones a disservice by running them on that amp? Any suggestions? The headphones do sound amazing, but i don't know if i am getting their full potential.


 

 It really depends on what you're looking for.
 I had the Bifrost 4490 / Asgard 2 combo and it worked quite well for HD800.
 A neutralish setup overall that let you hear the HD800 as it is.
  
 Tube amps can tame the somewhat dry nature of HD800, some high quality tube amps can do that without messing much with extension, clarity and dynamics.
  
 The 'full potential' thing is a tricky concept. You'll find very expensive gear that might sound better to your ears (or not) but even then the full potential is subjective and personal.
 Change the recording and you might prefer a different setup.
  
 Your setup is good enough technically speaking but if there's something about the sound you're getting that you want to tweak then tell us and best chances are we'll be able to point you in the right direction.


----------



## bigbeard

me x3 said:


> It really depends on what you're looking for.
> I had the Bifrost 4490 / Asgard 2 combo and it worked quite well for HD800.
> A neutralish setup overall that let you hear the HD800 as it is.
> 
> ...


 
 The thing i noticed about my setup is that is loses some clarity when i turn the volume up high (quite loud). I was wondering if this is a limitation of my amp, or of the headphones. I use tidal hifi as my source.


----------



## Me x3

bigbeard said:


> The thing i noticed about my setup is that is loses some clarity when i turn the volume up high (quite loud). I was wondering if this is a limitation of my amp, or of the headphones. I use tidal hifi as my source.


 
 The Asgard 2 is capable of 10 Vrms into 300 Ohm load without blinking.
 For *very* loud (not healthy) HD800 you need 4 Vrms.
  
 HD800 is capable of 100dB (which is loud) with less than 1% THD pretty much across the whole spectrum, so as long as you're below 100-105dB the headphone shouldn't lose clarity.
  
 So neither (BF/Asgard2 or HD800) should lose clarity at healthy loud levels as long as everything is just fine and there's no faulty piece of equippment in the chain.
  
 You should take into consideration that our hearing is not a linear thing, so when you crank the volume your perception of the sound signature changes and that could explain what you're hearing. (you can read about the equal loudness contours for more information about this phenomena)


----------



## ColtMrFire

bigbeard said:


> I am using my hd800 with a bifrost uber and asgard 2...i have always wondered if i am doing the headphones a disservice by running them on that amp? Any suggestions? The headphones do sound amazing, but i don't know if i am getting their full potential.


 
  
 FWIW I got a Lyr 1 for $200 and $40 upgrade tubes, and it's the best I've ever heard the HD800 sound.  I'm frankly stunned.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

coltmrfire said:


> FWIW I got a Lyr 1 for $200 and $40 upgrade tubes, and it's the best I've ever heard the HD800 sound.  I'm frankly stunned.


 

 If I can get a WA5 at some point I plan to...that euphony was utterly singular.


----------



## OldSkool

coltmrfire said:


> FWIW I got a Lyr 1 for $200 and $40 upgrade tubes, and it's the best I've ever heard the HD800 sound.  I'm frankly stunned.


 

 The original Lyr with a smooth, low/midrange-centric tube (such as Mullard CV2492/3) plays nicely with the HD800. However, the Woo WA2/HD800 is a much better pairing, IMHO.
  
 Cheers, JC


----------



## John Q Lin

what is a good price for the HD800


----------



## MWSVette

john q lin said:


> what is a good price for the HD800


 
  
 You should be able to find a nice set for $700.00 to $800.00 used.
  
 New on amazon,
  
https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-800-Reference-Dynamic-Headphone/dp/B001OTZ8DA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487018181&sr=8-1&keywords=hd800


----------



## Ali-Pacha

You can find some @ 650 € in EU...and I got mine way below 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Anyway, they are designed for volumic recordings...Dire Straits + HD800 = demo setup to blow your mind !

 Ali


----------



## Rozenberg

Or around 700€ for an almost mint condition one. I think I've seen some available currently on FS forum for 725€ - 760€.
 I got another pair of HD800 and paid a bit below 650€, though the cable is reterminated to XLR and probably need a bit of fix to make it look better.


----------



## nepherte

ali-pacha said:


> You can find some @ 650 € in EU...and I got mine way below


 
  
 Recently sold mine @ €650 for 4 years old HD800 (normal signs of wear).


----------



## nepherte

ali-pacha said:


> Anyway, they are designed for volumic recordings...Dire Straits + HD800 = demo setup to blow your mind !


 
  
 On Every Street....simply wow!


----------



## JamieMcC

ruinedx said:


> Has anyone tried a Violectric V200 combined with an Oppo Sonica or other SABRE32 DAC on stock HD800?
> 
> The V200 has a reputation for being a bit dark and the SABRE32 a bit bright, wonder if this would be a good combo


 
  
 I had a Eastern Electric Sabre 32 dac which I didnt get on with to me it sounded unbalanced and then there is the sabre glare I would not consider one again. Saying that I was happy wiith it for speaker duty just not with my HD800.


----------



## ColtMrFire

john q lin said:


> what is a good price for the HD800


 
  
 Got mine on the classifieds here for $750, pristine condition.


----------



## screwdriver

john q lin said:


> what is a good price for the HD800


 I'll post tonight in th for sale forum , selling mine . Pm me too if Interested


----------



## artpiggo

Could anyone please help compare between norne draug 2 and cardas clear. Is norne draug 2 a better matching than cardas clear?


----------



## ruinedx

Maybe I am nuts but the HD800 sounds damn good with a Parasound zDAC v2 ($449).  Can't have ear bleeding volume but very musical!  It does show its midfi-ness now and then, but for 449 probably tough to beat.
  
 VERY interesting to go back and forth between HD700 and HD800.
  
 HD700 all of a sudden sounds bloated and closed in compared to HD800. But both nice signatures.  HD700 > HD800 reminds me of same way I felt going HD600 > HD700.
  
  
 Funny actually, the HD700 got me hardcore interested in headphones again... I always like sennheiser 6xx sound but felt it was  a bit boring compared to a loudspeaker setup.  HD700/HD800 give me same excitement of loudspeakers.
  
 HD800S I listened to, easier to listen to than the HD800 and more mainstream sound but also more boring.. Seems like I'm paying $1300 extra for beefed up HD600 with nicer soundstage.. Might as well just get HD600/HD650 at that rate.  The extra treble kick and bass transparency that some complain about is what makes HD800 original special IMO, even if not applicable for all music.


----------



## MIKELAP

I was checking the HD800 serial numbers august 2016 they were around S/N 45XXX i saw a very recent pair but serial number is very weird there's letters and numbers now did Sennheiseiser start a new batch last fall? Any infos on this


----------



## thefitz

So nobody's tried the Superdupont mod along with the anaxilus mod?


----------



## JamieMcC

thefitz said:


> So nobody's tried the Superdupont mod along with the anaxilus mod?


 

 Yes at first but later took out the anaxilus mod and just use the hd800 with the SDR on its own now.


----------



## whirlwind

mikelap said:


> I was checking the HD800 serial numbers august 2016 they were around S/N 45XXX i saw a very recent pair but serial number is very weird there's letters and numbers now did Sennheiseiser start a new batch last fall? Any infos on this


 
 Not sure, been so long since i looked at my serial number....just looked  19060....Old Skool  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....old and wonderful.


----------



## FLTWS

I bought my HD800 new August 2016. The SN is 41XXX. The numbering may not have anything to do with sequential date of build.
  
 I registered it with Sennheiser to get my FR chart and was not told anything was amiss based on my SN (as in previously registered).
  
 I have also seen a pair of HD800S with a SN of 04XXX, not sure when they were purchased by the owner.


----------



## eeagle

ruinedx said:


> Maybe I am nuts but the HD800 sounds damn good with a Parasound zDAC v2 ($449).  Can't have ear bleeding volume but very musical!  It does show its midfi-ness now and then, but for 449 probably tough to beat.


 
 I think the Parasound Zdac is often overlooked, the power supply is quite impressive which makes for a nice quiet stable amp.
  
 Here is a Review
  
 I do currently prefer Sennheiser's own HDVD 800 over the Parasound for HD 800 listening though.


----------



## Rockin_Zombie

What's a closed set that emulates the HD800S the best? I have been rotating closed sets, not satisfied so far. Really miss he amazing soundstage. But at work I can't use an open set. Slight sound leaking is fine as I have a private office, but at normal listening level the H800S can be heard from outside the office so not an option. Source will be Chord Mojo, or something similar..


----------



## twiceboss

zoom25 said:


> I wouldn't worry about bass issues on HD 800. It's exceptional for any and every genre. For me it outclassed LCD-2, LCD-3, HE-500, and HE-6.
> 
> I would be far more worried about fatigue in long term listening sessions. Sonarworks or manual EQing the HD 800 can fix this.




Really3 preference. I'm good with its bass but sometimes i want more. Also the sibilant part, some tracks have that issue. 

Will be saving my money for z1r!


----------



## mihaig

I have a question about HD800: did anyone find one for sale with 'mockup' drivers? I found someone selling a 'chassis' with everything included but drivers. Compared it with an original working pair and they look identical, including the cable.
  
 Actually drivers are included but are empty inside (only the back cover and grill are present) AND they are not soldered to anything - no wires between the driver connectors and input jack. Seller says I can buy drivers and install them and it will work. 
  
 Was wondering how could a normally looking headset (very few signs of wear and tear) ending up with empty drivers and if it's safe to buy them and order drivers for them (found some suppliers, total price, including chassis and 2 new drivers would be less than 700 eur).
  
 PS: sorry to ask here but I'm a new member and cannot yet open a new thread.


----------



## Zoom25

twiceboss said:


> Really3 preference. I'm good with its bass but sometimes i want more. Also the sibilant part, some tracks have that issue.
> 
> Will be saving my money for z1r!


 
 Check out LCD-2 in that case. My favourite pleasing headphones.


----------



## Rozenberg

mihaig said:


> I have a question about HD800: did anyone find one for sale with 'mockup' drivers? I found someone selling a 'chassis' with everything included but drivers. Compared it with an original working pair and they look identical, including the cable.
> 
> Actually drivers are included but are empty inside (only the back cover and grill are present) AND they are not soldered to anything - no wires between the driver connectors and input jack. Seller says I can buy drivers and install them and it will work.
> 
> ...


 
 I don't think you could buy a pair of HD800 drivers. Could also be that the guy used his HD800 drivers for some DIY haedphones or something. Don't know what else this 'someone' was up to but it'll be a looot better if you just buy a used pair of HD800 in complete and working condition.
  
 To be honest I'm pretty interested in this 'chassis' you're talking about since I might need just the left slider for my HD800 since mine has become loose. Care to share the link?


----------



## mihaig

I would share a link but cannot post links yet (new member ) and you would not see anything special in the photo.
  
 It looks and feels (tried them on the head)exactly like the HD800 (a headset and a cable, no box) except that the drivers are empty and the seller specified that.

 I can order full capsules from UK, at about 200 pounds/capsule. (google 'hd800 capsule audiosanctuary')


----------



## bigfatpaulie

mihaig said:


> I would share a link but cannot post links yet (new member ) and you would not see anything special in the photo.
> 
> It looks and feels (tried them on the head)exactly like the HD800 (a headset and a cable, no box) except that the drivers are empty and the seller specified that.
> 
> I can order full capsules from UK, at about 200 pounds/capsule. (google 'hd800 capsule audiosanctuary')


 
  
 HD800 drivers are matched at the factory.  I can't imagine why anyone would buy just one (as it would be a random driver).  Order 2 is just as bad...  I would imagine the drivers on the site you are referencing are either B stock or came from somewhere even worse...
  
 They are *not *listed on Sennheiser's site as a dealer.
  
 I know you are trying to save a few bucks, but stop.  Just buy a used pair that is complete from the factory.  If you can't afford them, have a little restraint and save up: it will be a good life lesson.


----------



## twiceboss

zoom25 said:


> Check out LCD-2 in that case. My favourite pleasing headphones.




Lcd2 must heavy. Would be something bad...


----------



## thyname

Does anybody use HD 800 with Deckard? If yes, are they a good match?

A little worried about power (Deckard is rated 279 mW at 300 Ohms), but I have read good reviews on matching tonality and character.

And how would they compare with Asgard 2 / Bifrost combo?

Or Valhalla 2 / Bifrost combo?


----------



## Rockin_Zombie

thyname said:


> Does anybody use HD 800 with Deckard? If yes, are they a good match?
> 
> A little worried about power (Deckard is rated 279 mW at 300 Ohms), but I have read good reviews on matching tonality and character.
> 
> ...




Thats the amp I demoed my hd800s with, and bought it after 30 mins. Nice and smooth, didn't go past 12 o clock. Be warned though mine are hd800s, which has a slightly warmer sound signature.


----------



## Zoom25

twiceboss said:


> Lcd2 must heavy. Would be something bad...


 
 At the time I had them, I didn't enjoy their headband because of the bumps, which was overcome with a foam strap for $15. The earpads were comfortable on both LCDs. The weight was not too bad because of how it fit. HE-500 for example was more annoying. It might be worth a try based on the sound alone since you love the mids. Mine was pre-fazor. Although, if you audition them, 2 things:
  
 1) Make sure you have adequate and decent power. Both quality and quantity really helped open up things
  
 2) It seems kind of boring at first. Once you get used to them, other headphones might seem more energetic. Also, did you try Sonarworks or other EQ methods for the HD 800 yet?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I realize that there is some opacity about whether we should refer to a pair of headphones in the singular or plural. When naming conventions tack the letter S onto the end of a model name that also exists without it, this is the perfect storm for misinformation. 
  
 "I like my HD800s." Does one mean one's HD800? Or does one mean one's HD800S? The only satisfying conclusion I can reach as a grammarian is to refer to every headphone resolutely in the singular.


----------



## Zoom25

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I realize that there is some opacity about whether we should refer to a pair of headphones in the singular or plural. When naming conventions tack the letter S onto the end of a model name that also exists without it, this is the perfect storm for misinformation.
> 
> "I like my HD800s." Does one mean one's HD800? Or does one mean one's HD800S? The only satisfying conclusion I can reach as a grammarian is to refer to every headphone resolutely in the singular.


 
 If I need to refer to the newer HD 800, this is how I do it: the 'S' should be capital and with a space after 800. It should appear like: HD 800 S.
  
 If everyone did that, it would certainly help going through previous comments without having to question the ambiguity every few seconds.


----------



## mihaig

bigfatpaulie said:


> HD800 drivers are matched at the factory.  I can't imagine why anyone would buy just one (as it would be a random driver).  Order 2 is just as bad...  I would imagine the drivers on the site you are referencing are either B stock or came from somewhere even worse...
> 
> They are *not *listed on Sennheiser's site as a dealer.
> 
> I know you are trying to save a few bucks, but stop.  Just buy a used pair that is complete from the factory.  If you can't afford them, have a little restraint and save up: it will be a good life lesson.


 
  
 Well, you can't really save money with this hobby (neither with photography  )... I did a lot of research last night and ended up deciding to buy a new pair, as I originally intended. Now the question is HD800 or HD800s? Need to dig some more.


----------



## twiceboss

zoom25 said:


> At the time I had them, I didn't enjoy their headband because of the bumps, which was overcome with a foam strap for $15. The earpads were comfortable on both LCDs. The weight was not too bad because of how it fit. HE-500 for example was more annoying. It might be worth a try based on the sound alone since you love the mids. Mine was pre-fazor. Although, if you audition them, 2 things:
> 
> 1) Make sure you have adequate and decent power. Both quality and quantity really helped open up things
> 
> 2) It seems kind of boring at first. Once you get used to them, other headphones might seem more energetic. Also, did you try Sonarworks or other EQ methods for the HD 800 yet?




Attemptedmany times but always crash.
Can you gimme a step by step for that? Seems like so complicated with DAW etc


----------



## Zoom25

twiceboss said:


> Attemptedmany times but always crash.
> Can you gimme a step by step for that? Seems like so complicated with DAW etc


 
 If you have a Mac, I've listed how to use it with Audirvana Plus step by step before. It works perfectly for everyone that tried it. It's actually quite easy. No need for a full DAW.


----------



## johnjen

rozenberg said:


> I don't think you could buy a pair of HD800 drivers. Could also be that the guy used his HD800 drivers for some DIY haedphones or something…
> snip


 
 Yes it is possible to purchase a set of drivers.
 But you must supply a valid S/N and perhaps have to wait for them to be shipped from Germany.
 And they ain't cheap, (≈ $240) +s&h
  
 JJ


----------



## ruinedx

The spring of the left earcup of my HD800 - where it attaches to the headband and vertically pivots - clicks when at full extension as if slightly misaligned. 

I think I saw some others have this issue in the headfi reviews, is this relatively common?


----------



## mihaig

Got a brand new HD800 to use it for home listening. For the time being it's paired with a Fiio X3ii and a Fiio K5 amp.
  
 First impression: I am very happy with it. I did notice though something that was less apparent with the other headphones I have: DSD files play at a much lower volume than flac/mp3s, so I need to turn the volume up considerably more to achieve the same sound level (I am not talking about the fact that overall HD800 needs more volume, because it has a higher impedance than the other headphones). 
  
 Any idea why there is such a notable difference? Is there some setting I can do in the player to normalize the volume somehow? Or it's a normal thing to happen when playing different file formats?


----------



## eeagle

rockin_zombie said:


> What's a closed set that emulates the HD800S the best? I have been rotating closed sets, not satisfied so far. Really miss he amazing soundstage. But at work I can't use an open set. Slight sound leaking is fine as I have a private office, but at normal listening level the H800S can be heard from outside the office so not an option. Source will be Chord Mojo, or something similar..


 
 I can't speak for which closed HP emulates the HD800S since I've not spent any time with the S model.
  
 That said, if I were to choose a good closed HP I would start with the Audeze LCD-XC, next on the list would be the Fostex lineup including the TH-900mk2 or even the MD Fostex TH-X00, finally one of my favorite closed HPs the Sony MDR-Z7 (70mm drivers).


----------



## twiceboss

zoom25 said:


> If you have a Mac, I've listed how to use it with Audirvana Plus step by step before. It works perfectly for everyone that tried it. It's actually quite easy. No need for a full DAW.


 

  
 Tried with this. Got it also from this thread. He said this one is 90% similar to Sonarworks. And yes it sounds really laid back and the bass is soo deep without sibilant


----------



## Zoom25

twiceboss said:


> Tried with this. Got it also from this thread. He said this one is 90% similar to Sonarworks. And yes it sounds really laid back and the bass is soo deep without sibilant


 
  
  
 Yeah I do not do that at all. I never add. Only subtract. Here's mine:
  

  
 It's subtle but very noticeable. Very much like Sonarworks on 100% wet setting, but I don't touch the bass at all.


----------



## Astral Abyss

zoom25 said:


> Yeah I do not do that at all. I never add. Only subtract. Here's mine:
> 
> 
> 
> It's subtle but very noticeable. Very much like Sonarworks on 100% wet setting, but I don't touch the bass at all.


 
  
 It's not really adding.  The 0 point is set to the highest level by default.  So in actuality, everything is an attenuation.  It would clip like crazy otherwise.


----------



## twiceboss

astral abyss said:


> It's not really adding.  The 0 point is set to the highest level by default.  So in actuality, everything is an attenuation.  It would clip like crazy otherwise.


 
 Nice eq too!
  
 messing around with the  gain can really do something!


----------



## twiceboss

Anyone here use HD800 with Spotify+Equalify Pro?

 I just wanna share my eq which I feel so pleasant with this sound.
 And u still can play around with this eq.


----------



## twiceboss

Well, my HD800 even has punchy bass. I feel the vibration but without distortion. Hard to believe that HD800 can be this kind of bass cans! ok, feels like not gonna spend my money to z1r any sooner XD
  
 also to be add, no sibilant! oh my I LOVE THIS


----------



## Zoom25

I was just thinking about what Sonarworks does to HD 800:
  
 - Smaller soundstage
 - More bass
 - Less fatiguing
  
 This is like LCD-2's without any mods/EQ...except I'd still imagine the mids to be thicker in LCD-2. Thoughts?


----------



## jibzilla

zoom25 said:


> I was just thinking about what Sonarworks does to HD 800:
> 
> - Smaller soundstage
> - More bass
> ...


 
  
 Like a Lcd-2 on steroids though. With way better comfort and weight. Lcd-3 level sq. minimum imo. Maybe not Lcd-4 but not far from it and I prefer the brighter stock sound honestly.


----------



## twiceboss

jibzilla said:


> Like a Lcd-2 on steroids though. With way better comfort and weight. Lcd-3 level sq. minimum imo. Maybe not Lcd-4 but not far from it and I prefer the brighter stock sound honestly.




I love how lush this can be with this eq. I love this better according to the genre that i mostly listen to.

If classic, the brighter is always better


----------



## jibzilla

twiceboss said:


> I love how lush this can be with this eq. I love this better according to the genre that i mostly listen to.
> 
> If classic, the brighter is always better


 
  
 Yeah I like classic music, rock and jazz mostly, with the hd800. That comes with the stipulation of hd800 with a tube amp and copper cable. For electronic and rap SW3 + hd800 isn't too shabby but I much prefer speakers and liked the Lcd-X a lil more as well.


----------



## dakanao

So I've downloaded Sonar Works, but I don't see any option to start the program up?
  
 Does anybody know how I can use Sonar Works for global use on my laptop?


----------



## ColtMrFire

dakanao said:


> So I've downloaded Sonar Works, but I don't see any option to start the program up?
> 
> Does anybody know how I can use Sonar Works for global use on my laptop?


 
  
 It's a VST plugin for a music program like JRiver, or foobar if you have a special plugin.  What music software are you using?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

On Mac, you need Sonarworks, Pedalboard, and Soundflower. Funny how all the names are two otherwise incongruous words. 
  
 What next? Lightbank? Columnbook? Fruitwave?


----------



## Yoga

bosiemoncrieff said:


> On Mac, you need Sonarworks, Pedalboard, and Soundflower. Funny how all the names are two otherwise incongruous words.
> 
> What next? Lightbank? Columnbook? Fruitwave?


 

 Just get Audio Hijack, so much easier and better SQ (when I tested them anyway). Pedalboard was prone to cracks and pops.


----------



## Zoom25

bosiemoncrieff said:


> On Mac, you need Sonarworks, *Pedalboard*, and *Soundflower*. Funny how all the names are two otherwise incongruous words.
> 
> What next? *Lightbank*? *Columnbook*? *Fruitwave*?


 
  
 I know what you are talking about, and taking a step back and just reading these words from a perspective of someone reading this for the first time. I cannot imagine the confusion on their faces. The names these days...


----------



## thefitz

"Pedalboard" is just two incongruous words? Holy hell, not one musician here. Dancing about architecture indeed.


----------



## sanjeewasam

I need some advise and thought of ear pad replacement for HD800. I bought HD800 second hand mid last year and looks like I am the 3rd owner but not sure how much usage it had in total. The condition of the unit is excellent and much much better than I expected it for it is early production unit (serial 2197). I got a new balanced cable though stock work well.

Now my question is how do I determine if it require change of ear pads?. As I can see no any damage to ear pads but cannot tell if it is compressed etc. I keep the headphone on a wooden headphone ($30 from ebay from China) stand all the time but it is not a perfect fit for HD800. I got the unit for $750 and earpads cost almost $160 in Australia (but I could get from UK much less). 

I also want to understand from someone who actually changed ear pads not because they were broken /damaged but just for passage of time if they experienced any difference. I do not want to waste money for unnecessarily as my ear pads are in good physical condition as I can see. HD800 is not my only headphone and have Elears, AKG K812, HE560 as such my listening time divided


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Can your ears touch the drivers? Do the ear pads smell?
  
 Those are my two criteria.


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Can your ears touch the drivers? Do the ear pads smell?
> 
> Those are my two criteria.


 
  
 LOL, *bosiemoncrieff*. If I were ever tempted to purchase a used pair of headphones I would make sure I had a replacement set of earpads (and headband) purchased in advance or no deal.
  
 I try to be careful about where I stick my nose.
  
 Amazon US has them for $90.00 US and a combo with a replacement headband is $141 US.


----------



## Rozenberg

sanjeewasam said:


> I need some advise and thought of ear pad replacement for HD800. I bought HD800 second hand mid last year and looks like I am the 3rd owner but not sure how much usage it had in total. The condition of the unit is excellent and much much better than I expected it for it is early production unit (serial 2197). I got a new balanced cable though stock work well.
> 
> Now my question is how do I determine if it require change of ear pads?. As I can see no any damage to ear pads but cannot tell if it is compressed etc. I keep the headphone on a wooden headphone ($30 from ebay from China) stand all the time but it is not a perfect fit for HD800. I got the unit for $750 and earpads cost almost $160 in Australia (but I could get from UK much less).
> 
> I also want to understand from someone who actually changed ear pads not because they were broken /damaged but just for passage of time if they experienced any difference. I do not want to waste money for unnecessarily as my ear pads are in good physical condition as I can see. HD800 is not my only headphone and have Elears, AKG K812, HE560 as such my listening time divided


  
  


 They must have seen a lot of usage I bet. IIRC an HD800 with SN #11XXX could be hitting its 5 years old mark already, so for one in #02XXX, that could be 6-7 years but not sure so CMIIW.
  
 In my case, I could feel the earpads are kinda oily (eew) with some of the textures deteriorated, so I replaced it.
 Funnily enough, comparing my old earpads and my 1 year old earpads, they more or less have the same thickness but fresh earpads feel softer.
 Either way if your HD800 earpads have never been replaced before, I would advise to replace it since the old earpads have seen looots of use during its lifetime.
 Also, changing earpad, I couldn't notice any sound difference.
  
  


bosiemoncrieff said:


> Can your ears touch the drivers? Do the ear pads smell?
> 
> Those are my two criteria.


 
 Never actually heard of someone having ears big enough to touch the drivers since HD800's cups are really deep


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I got mine used 18 months ago, SN 6311, and my ears always touched the lining inside the ear cups when i first got them. replaced headband and earpods as soon as i could, and now they only grace the lining occasionally, in certain odd positions on my head.


----------



## sanjeewasam

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Can your ears touch the drivers? Do the ear pads smell?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Thanks for the reply. No for both. That means there is no need to change. I appreciate the fact that only you provided direct answer for one of the two questions I raised. I never question about hygiene If it is hygienically unacceptable I would not even ask the question and would have changed the pads. 

No one yet to answer the question- those who did not change specifically for Hygenic/damages to ear pad if they find sonic improvement after the change.


----------



## johnjen

I am about to change to my 3rd set of pads.
 And no I don't hear much, if any, change just due to a pad swap.
  
 However moving them around on my head does change the acoustic presentation and is quite noticeable.
  
 JJ


----------



## sanjeewasam

johnjen said:


> I am about to change to my 3rd set of pads.
> And no I don't hear much, if any, change just due to a pad swap.
> 
> However moving them around on my head does change the acoustic presentation and is quite noticeable.
> ...


 

 Thanks


----------



## artpiggo

I have bought SDR mod kit to use with hd800 and I find it quite good for its price to reduce 5-6 kHz peak but I somehow find it still need thicker mid bass so I look at my inventory and find mimimamo pad which I used with mdr 1r.

Firstly I put to cover the pad and I feel the sound is worse - soundstage isn't what it should be.

Then I come up with the idea like anax mod- try putting pad inside on the dust cover. And yup there it is. The mid bass is meaty at level I find it more musical yet detailed and unique sound as it design to be.

If you have a chance, try once.


----------



## Thenewguy007

artpiggo said:


> Then I come up with the idea like anax mod- try putting pad inside on the dust cover. And yup there it is. The mid bass is meaty at level I find it more musical yet detailed and unique sound as it design to be.
> 
> If you have a chance, try once.




Aren't the mimimamo pads essentially stockings?
How can you put them inside the dust cover?


----------



## artpiggo

thenewguy007 said:


> Aren't the mimimamo pads essentially stockings?
> How can you put them inside the dust cover?




Just put it on dust cover and use finger spread equally.


----------



## analog'd

in the fool such as I department:

 thought i'd try the beyer t1 gen 2. was getting rid of my lcd-3s due to comfort and a bit of lack of engagement with their soundscape. decided to get smart and sell my hd800 too. they sounded great but i had THE BUG. so i bought me some t1.2 and i bought me a fostex th900 (yet to arrive) and!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 My new pair of HD800 (ver 1)'s will arrive on Wednesday. The T1.2s are gone back tomorrow. I strayed and was fortunate enough to be able to recover by replacing my orig hd800 (perfectly functioning but scratched and broken in by the kid who scratched em. got me in em cheap and i passed em along the same way).  But now i get what i always wished i'd had: a brand new pair, waranteed and waiting for me to "tame" them. 

 i am going to apply the SupercalifragilisticDupont Mod, having ordered the physical piece from the originator of the mod. i am going to keep them permenently, i swear (i hear a lotta "ahems" and such).

 if i dig the fostex th900 i will keep them also. if not: who knows? i need two cans so that when i have the urge to rock out without the hd800's "true light", i will be able to do so. it could be that i'm bound to return to a trusty pair of grados for that, but i'm hoping that the th900's will be my "fun phone".    

 i already feel calmer than i have since shipping my hd800's to Nevada Friday.


----------



## Astral Abyss

analog'd said:


> in the fool such as I department:
> 
> thought i'd try the beyer t1 gen 2. was getting rid of my lcd-3s due to comfort and a bit of lack of engagement with their soundscape. decided to get smart and sell my hd800 too. they sounded great but i had THE BUG. so i bought me some t1.2 and i bought me a fostex th900 (yet to arrive) and!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was tempted to sell my HD800's at one point, but instead I stuck them in the closet for a few months.  When I eventually took them back out and listened to them, I couldn't believe I ever thought of selling them.


----------



## Duy Le

I do not dream about another headphones after my HD800 got SDR mod and Draug2 cable, although I have listened Focal Utopia in short time (some songs). With the used price, HD800 is the very good p/p headphones if you love the sound sign.


----------



## sanjeewasam

duy le said:


> I do not dream about another headphones after my HD800 got SDR mod and Draug2 cable, although I have listened Focal Utopia in short time (some songs). With the used price, HD800 is the very good p/p headphones if you love the sound sign.




So u did not like utopia or hd800 better for the money


----------



## Duy Le

sanjeewasam said:


> So u did not like utopia or hd800 better for the money


 
 Both money and sound. Utopia doesn't not fit for my budget and my taste. I've never said that Utopia sound bad, or HD800 sound better. For measurement, Utopia sound better in many way but I can live with my HD800 because I love their sound-sign


----------



## sanjeewasam

duy le said:


> Both money and sound. Utopia doesn't not fit for my budget and my taste. I've never said that Utopia sound bad, or HD800 sound better. For measurement, Utopia sound better in many way but I can live with my HD800 because I love their sound-sign


 

 Thanks for Clarifying. I have seen several people say HD800 still better. I only have Elear not Utopia. Best that I have heard to date is Hfiiman HE6 but sadly I did not keep it for the mods were not applied to my liking. For classical eastern music for my taste nothing including HE6 can match HD800 similar to AKG K812 for some female vocals.
  
 I have been listening to Elears and HE560s these days and then put on my HD800 only to realise that at low volumes Elear or HE560 can not match HD800 for many songs including classic rocks.


----------



## Sebastian Peter

Hello, I'm new in Head-fi, and in the audio world too. I apologyze because i write this here in a Post, but i couldn't find out how to Post something or make a new thread by my own. (My English is very bad too)
 I recently bought  a pair of HE400S and they are very good, but i have seen so much vids about the Sennheiser HD 800's that i'v got very curious to them. Their imaging is very amazing, i would like if anyone here can give me some alternatives to them, cheaper. If there is no headphone near to the HD800 in imaging and clarity.. I am disposed to save Money for the next one and half Year to get them. With an nice Amp of course (I'm thinking about the Chord Mojo or the OPPO hA-2,... are this ok?)
 Thank you and Greetings form Switzerland.


----------



## JaZZ

sebastian peter said:


> Hello, I'm new in Head-fi, and in the audio world too. I apologyze because i write this here in a Post, but i couldn't find out how to Post something or make a new thread by my own. (My English is very bad too)
> I recently bought  a pair of HE400S and they are very good, but i have seen so much vids about the Sennheiser HD 800's that i'v got very curious to them. Their imaging is very amazing, i would like if anyone here can give me some alternatives to them, cheaper. If there is no headphone near to the HD800 in imaging and clarity.. I am disposed to save Money for the next one and half Year to get them. With an nice Amp of course (I'm thinking about the Chord Mojo or the OPPO hA-2,... are this ok?)
> Thank you and Greetings form Switzerland.


 
  
 Hi Sebastian, and welcome to Head-Fi! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 No, I don't think you'll find anything cheaper with the HD 800's imaging qualities and resolution. Your best bet would be to look for a used pair. The Mojo is fine for driving it.
  
 Greetings from Zurich


----------



## twiceboss

sebastian peter said:


> Hello, I'm new in Head-fi, and in the audio world too. I apologyze because i write this here in a Post, but i couldn't find out how to Post something or make a new thread by my own. (My English is very bad too)
> I recently bought  a pair of HE400S and they are very good, but i have seen so much vids about the Sennheiser HD 800's that i'v got very curious to them. Their imaging is very amazing, i would like if anyone here can give me some alternatives to them, cheaper. If there is no headphone near to the HD800 in imaging and clarity.. I am disposed to save Money for the next one and half Year to get them. With an nice Amp of course (I'm thinking about the Chord Mojo or the OPPO hA-2,... are this ok?)
> Thank you and Greetings form Switzerland.


 
 Jumping into $1k of headphones needs a better understanding of sound signature. I've never hear of HE400s personally and I couldn't touch that part. You really to consider your preference. I like my HD800 in many ways. First, stock is the most not fun-sounding ever. It has details, damn wide soundstage, less bass, not to mention peaky 6khz. It is quite dry I would say.
  
 I start to fall in love with this headphone because of the clarity and the imaging. Not because of the bass or the peaky 6khz. After quite sometimes with my HD800, i played around with the EQ, the bass and the peaky 6khz solved. It is really good headphone if u know how to play with it. Not to mention, it is good with the stock and some people like it with stock but I'm not one of them.
  
 If u ever want to jump to this. Go for it, you will be amazed with the clarity and if you didnt like the peaky 6khz and the shy of bass, learn how to eq. It is a night and day difference I would promise! Words I can describe for mycurrent HD800 with this eq: Lush and Detail!


----------



## Sebastian Peter

Thank you @twiceboss!!! I'm hell curious about that imaging sound that everybody is telling about, I just read something about the Beyer T1, they said that these had a nice imaging too...  what my you say? (if you heard to them yet of course).
 Thank you for saying that something with the dry sound, I already was waiting for it, and i'm happy to know that theres a way to "fix" it with an EQ.
 I'm very excited that guy like you with so experience and Knowledge are teaching me a bit of this big and amazing world of the Sound.
 Thank you Again !! (I'm very happy)


----------



## Sebastian Peter

Hello @JaZZ Thank you for answering my Weird and Newbie Question. I'm happy very happy to know that i'm not the only one sound lover in Switzerland.( Im Originally From Mexico but i live here since the last year). Would the Oppo Ha-2 not be enough for the HD 800? 
 Thank yoooouu! L.G.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Got a new cable, DHC molecule pure copper.  Very welcome improvement over the stock cable.  Slightly less air, but better everything else,  The stock cable is decent, but it's a pretty obvious bottleneck for this headphone for me.


----------



## JaZZ

sebastian peter said:


> Hello @JaZZ Thank you for answering my Weird and Newbie Question. I'm happy very happy to know that i'm not the only one sound lover in Switzerland.( Im Originally From Mexico but i live here since the last year). *Would the Oppo Ha-2 not be enough for the HD 800?*
> Thank yoooouu! L.G.


 
  
 Sorry, I have no idea. I'm a Chord guy anyway (for good reason).


----------



## DavidA

sebastian peter said:


> Hello, I'm new in Head-fi, and in the audio world too. I apologyze because i write this here in a Post, but i couldn't find out how to Post something or make a new thread by my own. (My English is very bad too)
> I recently bought  a pair of HE400S and they are very good, but i have seen so much vids about the Sennheiser HD 800's that i'v got very curious to them. Their imaging is very amazing, i would like if anyone here can give me some alternatives to them, cheaper. If there is no headphone near to the HD800 in imaging and clarity.. I am disposed to save Money for the next one and half Year to get them. With an nice Amp of course (I'm thinking about the Chord Mojo or the OPPO hA-2,... are this ok?)
> Thank you and Greetings form Switzerland.


 
 The HD800 is a great headphone but finding an amp that goes well with it is important, the Mojo is good but there are many other options also.  I have the HD-800, T1 and a few other headphones and for me the genre of music that you like will make a difference in which headphone I would suggest for you.  If mainly classical, jazz and blues then the HD800 or T1 are great but if you listen to music with a lot of vocals then I think the HE-560 is a better choice since the overly wide sound stage of the HD800 and T1 can make vocals sound a little strange at times to me at least.  If you like a lot of bass then a TH series Fostex or Audeze LCD series is what I would suggest.


----------



## twiceboss

sebastian peter said:


> Thank you @twiceboss!!! I'm hell curious about that imaging sound that everybody is telling about, I just read something about the Beyer T1, they said that these had a nice imaging too...  what my you say? (if you heard to them yet of course).
> Thank you for saying that something with the dry sound, I already was waiting for it, and i'm happy to know that theres a way to "fix" it with an EQ.
> I'm very excited that guy like you with so experience and Knowledge are teaching me a bit of this big and amazing world of the Sound.
> Thank you Again !! (I'm very happy)


 
 Back then I was torn between these two so I dont have experience with T1. But with my research, it has better bass without eq, less soundstage. Note that, HD800 bass is dang good after eq. Need to know how to eq. The gain is very important to make the distortion-free


----------



## ruinedx

sebastian peter said:


> Hello, I'm new in Head-fi, and in the audio world too. I apologyze because i write this here in a Post, but i couldn't find out how to Post something or make a new thread by my own. (My English is very bad too)
> I recently bought  a pair of HE400S and they are very good, but i have seen so much vids about the Sennheiser HD 800's that i'v got very curious to them. Their imaging is very amazing, i would like if anyone here can give me some alternatives to them, cheaper. If there is no headphone near to the HD800 in imaging and clarity.. I am disposed to save Money for the next one and half Year to get them. With an nice Amp of course (I'm thinking about the Chord Mojo or the OPPO hA-2,... are this ok?)
> Thank you and Greetings form Switzerland.




The HD700 is most definitely the closest lower cost imaging I've heard to the HD800, but you have to be nearly as careful matching an amp/dac. I have found Oppo to be too harsh for the HD700/HD800 and instead recommend Musical Fidelity MX-DAC/MX-HPA for HD700/HD800. 

The Parasound zdac v2 is also a great low cost match for the HD700 but not quite as good for HD800.


----------



## twiceboss

@Sebastian Peter
  
 This is how i eq my HD800:

  
 TH600:

  
 Note: I'm a basshead that loves mids and hating sibilant highs.


----------



## JaZZ

_Sebastian_, I'm with _twiceboss_ on this: Equalizing makes a genre master out of the HD 800. I would also say it's hard to get better bass from any headphone. The equalizing approach also largely frees you from the dependency from amp matching – the Mojo is an excellent DAC and a perfect amp in one for a very decent price. If you want to go one step further: Consider this damping modification – should you really decide for a (used) HD 800. My corresponding EQ setting looks like this:
  

  
 (That's with xnor's graphic equalizer for foobar2000.)


----------



## Zoom25

coltmrfire said:


> Got a new cable, DHC molecule pure copper.  Very welcome improvement over the stock cable.  Slightly less air, but better everything else,  The stock cable is decent, but it's a pretty obvious bottleneck for this headphone for me.


 
 Nice. How are the mids between the stock and DHC? Warmer?


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I love my Sennheiser HDVD800 DAC/amp with my HD800.  I understand that Sennheiser used listening panels to fine-tune its output impedance to its average (over frequency) of 43 ohms to drive its average (over frequency) 300-ohm headphones.
  
 Complaints have been made that the DAC is not as good as the amp... the DAC-equipped HDVD800 was $400 more than the amp-only HDVA600, and a $400 DAC is really sort of entry level (unless you buy Schiit, which gives you double for your money).
  
 But you can put your own DAC on the HDVD800 and just use its wonderfully-matched amp with the HD800.  
  
 Right now, with the hint of a new Sennheiser amp better matched for the new HD800S looming on the horizon, you can get a used HDVD800 at a very reasonable price.


----------



## ColtMrFire

zoom25 said:


> Nice. How are the mids between the stock and DHC? Warmer?


 
  
 Unfortunately I am waiting on some new tubes for my Lyr amp, so am stuck with the crappy stock tubes.  But the mids are definitely warmer and less thin, more robust and there is less emphasis on the top end (courtesy of pure copper).  The sound is overall more dramatic, pleasing and euphonic.  
  
 The wire inside the stock cable is horribly thin... the bulk of the size comes from the plastic tubing... don't let the thickness fool you, there is very little actual wire in the stock cable, which is why people complain the HD800 sounds "thin"... it is literally thin from the stock cable.  The Molecule uses a much thicker wire.  
  
 The stock cable isn't terrible, but it really does the headphone no favors, and is typical cheap thin wire to cut down on costs.


----------



## JaZZ

coltmrfire said:


> zoom25 said:
> 
> 
> > Nice. How are the mids between the stock and DHC? Warmer?
> ...


 
  
 Don't let you mislead by the wire gauge: The drivers have an impedance of 480 ohms on average, so the wires have to transport quite low currents and the cable impedance doesn't matter much. In comparison with three aftermarket cables (DHC «Clone», Silver Dragon and Black Dragon) the original cable belongs to the best to my ears. The Dragons are smoother, especially the Black, but the stock cable is slightly more detailed an accurate to my ears. (Who knows which of them colors the sound the least – I can't tell!) In any event the Clone is the least detailed and falls short.
  
 In contrast to the HD 600/650 cables I would call the HD 800 cable very good. It's just a bit sharp in comparison, which may not be the best match with some systems.


----------



## ColtMrFire

The stock cable is very detailed and has a good bit of air, but sounds thin and sterile and not very pleasing to listen to for me compared to the aftermarket cables I've heard. Those are oft repeated qualities repeated by people who didnt like the headphone. I honestly always felt the stock cable was a bottleneck and didnt really enjoy the headphone much unless I was using aftermarket cables. Do I really need to say ymmv at this point?


----------



## Sebastian Peter

twiceboss said:


> @Sebastian Peter
> 
> 
> This is how i eq my HD800:
> ...


----------



## JaZZ

coltmrfire said:


> The stock cable is very detailed and has a good bit of air, but sounds thin and sterile and not very pleasing to listen to for me compared to the aftermarket cables I've heard. *Those are oft repeated qualities repeated by people who didnt like the headphone.* I honestly always felt the stock cable was a bottleneck and didnt really enjoy the headphone much unless I was using aftermarket cables. Do I really need to say ymmv at this point?


 
  
 IMO that has more to do with the 6 kHz overemphasis. You can't blame a cable for not masking it. That's why I said it's hard to tell which cable is more neutral. The HD 800 has to be equalized to sound at its best; that's more important than a cable replacement. That's not to say it won't improve it any further.


----------



## ColtMrFire

jazz said:


> IMO that has more to do with the 6 kHz overemphasis. You can't blame a cable for not masking it. That's why I said it's hard to tell which cable is more neutral. The HD 800 has to be equalized to sound at its best; that's more important than a cable replacement. That's not to say it won't improve it any further.


 
  
 That's where YMMV comes in.  Not everyone uses a computer, and not everyone with a computer has the desire to EQ.  In those cases a cable replacement is a definite option.  Even when I EQ'd with the stock cable, the thin, sterile sound was still noticeable (relative to an upgrade cable), just lessened.  The cable swap made a more substantial improvement for me.  And for those who want to use SW or the SDR mod, those alter the soundstage too much for me, which is a huge no deal for classical and jazz, which happen to be the two genres the headphone excels at.  As with everything in this hobby, it comes down to trying things yourself and coming to your own conclusions.


----------



## ruinedx

The HD700/HD800 were divisive headphones because they were SO different sounding than the many sennheisers previously released.
  
 It really appears many do everything they can to try to make the HD800 sound like the HD600/HD650 sound.  Whether its tubes, EQ, whatever.  Makes me wonder why not just use HD600/HD650?
  
 I don't think the 6khz spike is a problem at all - but rather a feature - and I think the HD800 loses its personality when you EQ it out.  The HD700/HD800 got me back into headphone listening because the presence afforded by the 6khz emphasis makes everything sound alive.  I am saddened that with the HD800 S we are now getting essentially a deluxe HD600 sound and Sennheiser is abandoning this brave new sound signature which I find far more exciting.
  
 I understand it being challenging to pair since the 6khz emphasis demands top notch equipment and ruthlessly exposes flaws in source, and sounds nothing like previous Sennheiser headphones. But I think its the best signature for music listening Sennheiser has to date.  When I put the SonarWorks HD800 curve in to flatten it out, its back to boring HD600 sound...


----------



## DavidA

ruinedx said:


> The HD700/HD800 were divisive headphones because they were SO different sounding than the many sennheisers previously released.
> 
> It really appears many do everything they can to try to make the HD800 sound like the HD600/HD650 sound.  Whether its tubes, EQ, whatever.  Makes me wonder why not just use HD600/HD650?
> 
> ...


 
 When I heard the HD-800 with SW it didn't sound anything like a HD-600 and the HD-800S does not sound like a deluxe HD-600 either.  FWIW I don't use any EQ and have not done any mods to my HD-800, I like them as is, the HD-600 is history and some day a year or 2 from now I'll look at getting a HD-800S, maybe..


----------



## ruinedx

I a/b'd the hd800/HD800S on an hdvd800 and the first thing I thought of when I heard HD800S was hd600 on steroids. 
L


----------



## JaZZ

coltmrfire said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > IMO that has more to do with the 6 kHz overemphasis. You can't blame a cable for not masking it. That's why I said it's hard to tell which cable is more neutral. The HD 800 has to be equalized to sound at its best; that's more important than a cable replacement. That's not to say it won't improve it any further.
> ...


 
  
 Of course it's always a YMMV thing, and everyone should feel free to do what they want. However, not owning a computer is a bad excuse. What other sources are there? Apart from a few CD players most non-computer users probably use a DAP as their digital source. Do you know a DAP without built-in equalizer?
  
 Head-Fi is indeed a good place to learn how to not get to the source of a problem, but to buy compensating gear instead. I guess it's more fun. That reminds me of a joke I heard long ago. In a park a man sees another one apparently searching the ground under the light of a lantern for something he lost. _«Yes, I've lost my wallet. I can't seem to find it.»_ «Do you recall where it could have happened?» _«Yes, it was probably over there.» _«So why are you searching here and not there instead?» _«It's so terribly dark over there – very hard to find something in the darkness.»_
  
 I'm not criticizing you for your approach, don't get me wrong, but I wonder about your preference for an artificial treble enhancement for an artificial soundstage enhancement, while sacrificing natural instrument timbres. When I replace the stock cable on my HD 800 with the Black Dragon, I usually adapt the EQ curve accordingly – for compensating the different tonal balances. You don't seem to care for it. Otherwise it would even be possible to make the sound with the stock cable fuller than that of your actually smoother aftermarket cable. However, I think headphones are more forgiving in terms of tonal balance than speakers, and it's possible for the brain to adapt to unevennesses, maybe up to a certain degree. But then again, we're explicitly talking about methods for fixing tonal flaws (in favor of enhanced listening pleasure).
  


ruinedx said:


> It really appears many do everything they can to try to make the HD800 sound like the HD600/HD650 sound.  Whether its tubes, EQ, whatever.  Makes me wonder why not just use HD600/HD650?
> 
> I don't think the 6khz spike is a problem at all - but rather a feature - and I think the HD800 loses its personality when you EQ it out. The HD700/HD800 got me back into headphone listening because the presence afforded by the 6khz emphasis makes everything sound alive. I am saddened that with the HD800 S we are now getting essentially a deluxe HD600 sound and Sennheiser is abandoning this brave new sound signature which I find far more exciting.
> 
> I understand it being challenging to pair since the 6khz emphasis demands top notch equipment and ruthlessly exposes flaws in source, and sounds nothing like previous Sennheiser headphones. But I think its the best signature for music listening Sennheiser has to date. When I put the SonarWorks HD800 curve in to flatten it out, its back to boring HD600 sound...


 
  
 I somewhat understand your approach, but you don't seem to understand the one you're displaying as questionable. Some of us are perfectionists. We don't want a headphone to sound like some other or like a «headphone» generally, but as close as possible to the real thing instead. I've lived with an HD 650 for a long time and really liked it, but was always aware of its excessive smoothness. At the time it was still the sound I liked best, and I wasn't into equalizing yet. My now HD 800, modified and equalized to make it sound as little as an HD 800 as possible, sounds nothing like my HD 650, unequalized. When I equalize the latter, though, I can get it quite close; it just lacks the ultimate resolution and detail.


----------



## Fearless1

ruinedx said:


> I a/b'd the hd800/HD800S on an hdvd800 and the first thing I thought of when I heard HD800S was hd600 on steroids.
> L




Then your ears are much different then mine.


----------



## ColtMrFire

jazz said:


> Of course it's always a YMMV thing, and everyone should feel free to do what they want. However, not owning a computer is a bad excuse. What other sources are there? Apart from a few CD players most non-computer users probably use a DAP as their digital source. Do you know a DAP without built-in equalizer?
> 
> Head-Fi is indeed a good place to learn how to not get to the source of a problem, but to buy compensating gear instead. I guess it's more fun. That reminds me of a joke I heard long ago. In a park a man sees another one apparently searching the ground under the light of a lantern for something he lost. _«Yes, I've lost my wallet. I can't seem to find it.»_ «Do you recall where it could have happened?» _«Yes, it was probably over there.» _«So why are you searching here and not there instead?» _«It's so terribly dark over there – very hard to find something in the darkness.»_
> 
> I'm not criticizing you for your approach, don't get me wrong, but I wonder about your preference for an artificial treble enhancement for an artificial soundstage enhancement, while sacrificing natural instrument timbres. When I replace the stock cable on my HD 800 with the Black Dragon, I usually adapt the EQ curve accordingly – for compensating the different tonal balances. You don't seem to care for it. Otherwise it would even be possible to make the sound with the stock cable fuller than that of your actually smoother aftermarket cable. However, I think headphones are more forgiving in terms of tonal balance than speakers, and it's possible for the brain to adapt to unevennesses, maybe up to a certain degree. But then again, we're explicitly talking about methods for fixing tonal flaws (in favor of enhanced listening pleasure).


 
  
 Believe it or not, some people do still use CD players, me being one of them.  In those cases, no, EQ is not possible.  And there are still those who don't care to EQ regardless of what equipment they have.  So an aftermarket cable is a consideration there.  
  
 I can't really respond to the rest of your post since it's mostly opinion and speculation, which we're all welcome to of course.


----------



## JaZZ

Maybe some still use CD players to have this excuse? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 In any event it seems to be a matter of effort some don't want to make (which is actually meant to enable a more convenient approach to music listening). I'm guilty myself for avoiding effort. Right now it's jogging weather outside – and I'm sitting on my computer typing Head-Fi posts...


----------



## daltonlanny

coltmrfire said:


> Believe it or not, some people do still use CD players, me being one of them.  In those cases, no, EQ is not possible.  And there are still those who don't care to EQ regardless of what equipment they have.  So an aftermarket cable is a consideration there.
> 
> I can't really respond to the rest of your post since it's mostly opinion and speculation, which we're all welcome to of course.




+1.
Marantz cd players, and an Oppo BDP95 universal disc player are my sources for all my music.
I do not currently use a computer for audio.


----------



## ruinedx

jazz said:


> Of course it's always a YMMV thing, and everyone should feel free to do what they want. However, not owning a computer is a bad excuse. What other sources are there? Apart from a few CD players most non-computer users probably use a DAP as their digital source. Do you know a DAP without built-in equalizer?
> 
> Head-Fi is indeed a good place to learn how to not get to the source of a problem, but to buy compensating gear instead. I guess it's more fun. That reminds me of a joke I heard long ago. In a park a man sees another one apparently searching the ground under the light of a lantern for something he lost. [COLOR=006400]_«Yes, I've lost my wallet. I can't seem to find it.»_[/COLOR] «Do you recall where it could have happened?» _[COLOR=006400]«Yes, it was probably over there.»[/COLOR]_ «So why are you searching here and not there instead?» [COLOR=006400]_«It's so terribly dark over there – very hard to find something in the darkness.»_[/COLOR]
> 
> ...




The "real thing" is most definitely *not* a flat frequency response curve. When we hear music in the real world, we hear reflected audio and it is most definitely not flat in frequency response . We don't hear real world audio in an anechoic chamber. A flat frequency response curve on a pair of headphones fails to emulate real world audio. This is where Sennheiser was going with the hd700/hd800 and I find it sad people did not grasp the paradigm shift. Hence we are now moving backwards to more flat, less realistic sounding audio.


----------



## ColtMrFire

jazz said:


> In any event it seems to be a matter of effort some don't want to make


 
  
 That's a wild assumption.  I actually used to use computer audio, but went back to CDs.  So I made the effort, but ended up going back.  
  
 In my particular case, the Modi MB had a better Coax input than USB which was very noticeable.  When I went back to CDs, I noticed some habits I'd picked up vanishing.  Like I wasn't as quick to skip tracks, or fast forward through certain parts, I paid more attention to the music than my computer, and I actually had to get my lazy ass up when it came time to change albums (yay for exercise!).  As a result, I ended up enjoying my music _more_.  So convenience is nice but it isn't necessarily a positive for everybody.  Like anything, it depends on the person and what bests suits their listening pleasure.


----------



## ColtMrFire

daltonlanny said:


> +1.
> Marantz cd players, and an Oppo BDP95 universal disc player are my sources for all my music.
> I do not currently use a computer for audio.


 
  
 Yes, there are lots of us still around.


----------



## JaZZ

ruinedx said:


> The "real thing" is most definitely *not* a flat frequency response curve. When we hear music in the real world, we hear reflected audio and it is most definitely not flat in frequency response . We don't hear real world audio in an anechoic chamber. A flat frequency response curve on a pair of headphones fails to emulate real world audio. This is where Sennheiser was going with the hd700/hd800 and I find it sad people did not grasp the paradigm shift. Hence we are now moving backwards to more flat, less realistic sounding audio.


 
  
 Real musical instruments don't have a frequency response, they have a sound. I try to get that sound from my reproduction chain as unaltered as possible. A flat frequency response, especially considering sound transducers, is an indispensable precondition for that. That perceivedly «flat» frequency response may differ from person to person, though, as it also depends on anatomy. In any event, the «normalized» frequency responses available e.g. on Inner Fidelity (although not perfect IMO) offer a rough impression of the expectable tonal balance (= colorations) of the listed headphones.
  
 You, on the other hand, seem to say one should leave every headphone as it is, because every headphone is perfect enough for every demand...


----------



## JaZZ

coltmrfire said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > In any event it seems to be a matter of effort some don't want to make
> ...


 
  
 Yes, it is a (somewhat provocative) assumption, not necessarily addressed at you. But I'm sure many CD users shy away from the effort of ripping, converting, tagging and organizing their music on a computer. And even more EQ abstainers have chosen their approach because they shy away from the effort of learning how to equalize and practicing it, less so due to the lacking faith in its technical merits.
  
 Hey, I'm lazy in other areas! I really am!


----------



## Sebastian Peter

@twiceboss  If i was excted before, now i'm blown out!! I just want to hear to them ! Thank you for the EQ Info. But... Which Program do you use?
 Thankyou Agaaain!!


----------



## Sebastian Peter

ruinedx said:


> The HD700 is most definitely the closest lower cost imaging I've heard to the HD800, but you have to be nearly as careful matching an amp/dac. I have found Oppo to be too harsh for the HD700/HD800 and instead recommend Musical Fidelity MX-DAC/MX-HPA for HD700/HD800.
> 
> The Parasound zdac v2 is also a great low cost match for the HD700 but not quite as good for HD800.


 
 Wow. Are the HD 700 warmer? i'v heard that their sound is very fatiguing...
  Thank you!!!


----------



## Sebastian Peter

davida said:


> The HD800 is a great headphone but finding an amp that goes well with it is important, the Mojo is good but there are many other options also.  I have the HD-800, T1 and a few other headphones and for me the genre of music that you like will make a difference in which headphone I would suggest for you.  If mainly classical, jazz and blues then the HD800 or T1 are great but if you listen to music with a lot of vocals then I think the HE-560 is a better choice since the overly wide sound stage of the HD800 and T1 can make vocals sound a little strange at times to me at least.  If you like a lot of bass then a TH series Fostex or Audeze LCD series is what I would suggest.


 
 That was very interesting, You're telling me that the HD 8000/T1 are not bassy? I'm not a basehead, but i like warm sound. I was thinking of the HD700... but i hear that they are very fatiguing to listen to. What do you say?


----------



## twiceboss

sebastian peter said:


> @twiceboss
> If i was excted before, now i'm blown out!! I just want to hear to them ! Thank you for the EQ Info. But... Which Program do you use?
> Thankyou Agaaain!!




That's the equalify Pro only for Spotify extension. I hardly find a lossless files. 320kbps is good enough for me. With good tune, it is fun to listen. Lossless and 320kbps is not a night and day difference. DSD does. DSD sound separation will blow your mind. Not a single distortion and not single sound is mixed together.

Try to find Amiron Home by beyerdynamic. Find used. It's a new heaphone which is cheaper than T1. It has a lot of good reviews and good news, it is warm sounding. 100% not fatiguing. People said it is the new of T90 with improvements. Go figure it out.


----------



## Zoom25

sebastian peter said:


> That was very interesting, You're telling me that the HD 8000/T1 are not bassy? I'm not a basehead,* but i like warm sound*. I was thinking of the HD700... but i hear that they are very fatiguing to listen to. What do you say?


 
 Have you considered Audeze?


----------



## Sebastian Peter

zoom25 said:


> Have you considered Audeze?


 
 Yes but only the EL-8, the others.... are 2000. xO. (I think) And they are less spacious, right?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

So I'm looking into Audio Hijack in conjunction with Sonarworks in lieu of Pedalboard. Is Soundflower still necessary? Are there any guides to implementing this combination?


----------



## Zoom25

sebastian peter said:


> Yes but only the EL-8, the others.... are 2000. xO. (I think) And they are less spacious, right?


 
  
 Try the LCD-2. Either the new 2016 or the pre-fazor LCD-2.2. Don't worry about spaciousness. There are many other things that matter. Also, when you EQ the HD 800, your soundstage will shrink. The voicing is very important on headphones and how it overall feels. If one wants spaciousness, then speakers are where it's at.


----------



## Sebastian Peter

zoom25 said:


> Try the LCD-2. Either the new 2016 or the pre-fazor LCD-2.2. Don't worry about spaciousness. There are many other things that matter. Also, when you EQ the HD 800, your soundstage will shrink. The voicing is very important on headphones and how it overall feels. If one wants spaciousness, then speakers are where it's at.


 Very nice Comment. I will rethink what i want. I've seen some vids about the lcd2 and x. And both ate ver very good. And warm . Thank you for the Info. Made me Think more about this. Regards


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

zoom25 said:


> If one wants spaciousness, then speakers are where it's at.


 
 Or K1000


----------



## JaZZ

twiceboss said:


> That's the equalify Pro only for Spotify extension. I hardly find a lossless files. 320kbps is good enough for me. With good tune, it is fun to listen. Lossless and 320kbps is not a night and day difference. DSD does. DSD sound separation will blow your mind. Not a single distortion and not single sound is mixed together.


 
  
 Now I'm wondering: How do you equalize DSD?


----------



## twiceboss

jazz said:


> Now I'm wondering: How do you equalize DSD?



 


That's a different topic.. haha
was saying the worthy of 320kbps vs lossless. It is not night and day difference between them but DSD does. 320kbps with good EQ sounds damn good too, so I'm lazy to find lossless for every latest tracks


----------



## JaZZ

twiceboss said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> > Now I'm wondering: How do you equalize DSD?
> ...


 
  
 So are you saying DSD sounds better to your ears than PCM? Hi-res PCM? That's not my impression at all (not saying that it sounds bad), moreover I'm not convinced of DSD from a technical perspective, and the incompatibility with DSPs finally makes it useless for me. BTW, I also can't tell the difference between 320 kbps MP3 and lossless, at least through headphones.


----------



## twiceboss

jazz said:


> So are you saying DSD sounds better to your ears than PCM? Hi-res PCM? That's not my impression at all (not saying that it sounds bad), moreover I'm not convinced of DSD from a technical perspective, and the incompatibility with DSPs finally makes it useless for me. BTW, I also can't tell the difference between 320 kbps MP3 and lossless, at least through headphones.


 
 Telling with my only experience,  96 kHz does not have a night and day difference to me. Maybe i dont have that $$$$$$$ dac/amp to make them sounds so different.


----------



## DavidA

sebastian peter said:


> That was very interesting, You're telling me that the HD 8000/T1 are not bassy? I'm not a basehead, but i like warm sound. I was thinking of the HD700... but i hear that they are very fatiguing to listen to. What do you say?


 
 The HD-800 and T1 have bass, just not at bass head level like the Fostex TH-600/X00.  HD-700 is about the same as the HD-800/T1 as being bright and for some its fatiguing, if you take the same approach to finding an amp that pairs well with the HD-800 as the HD-700 then it shouldn't be fatiguing.


----------



## Zoom25

sebastian peter said:


> Very nice Comment. I will rethink what i want. I've seen some vids about the lcd2 and x. And both ate ver very good. And warm . Thank you for the Info. Made me Think more about this. Regards


 
  
 If I were you, I'd audition as many headphones and systems as possible locally. If you can only buy based on other opinions, I'd put a strict one-month ban on yourself before purchasing ANYTHING! The more you will read, the more you will understand while getting more confused at the same time. It's all part of the process. Took me awhile as well to get into headphone game when I started out and each day was a new revelation. Pace yourself.
  
 Having said that, if you want a high-end headphone that is forgiving, has warm mids, deep and tight, fatigue-free, and pleasing, then the LCD-2 is worth the consideration. Especially if you can find a used LCD-2.2 pre-fazor. You will save money this way and can spend it on a solid amp/dac.


----------



## smy1

Didn't know there was a new Hd800 thread 

But I was wondering why everybody wants to know the serial number on the hd800? Does it tell you how old or new it is if so which number are the newer ones and which are old ones?


----------



## JoHit

Each HD 800 has a unique serial number, each one has a slightly unique frequency response. There is baseline response all HD 800s need to meet, however they all vary slightly from it. Some people have noticed a difference between different ones.
  
 In addition, apparently the early HD 800s sounded slightly different from the ones made currently. I'm sure someone else can expand on this...


----------



## smy1

johit said:


> Each HD 800 has a unique serial number, each one has a slightly unique frequency response. There is baseline response all HD 800s need to meet, however they all vary slightly from it. Some people have noticed a difference between different ones.
> 
> In addition, apparently the early HD 800s sounded slightly different from the ones made currently. I'm sure someone else can expand on this...




How could that be?

Can anyone tell me anything about the 29xxx serial?


----------



## analog'd

smy1 said:


> johit said:
> 
> 
> > Each HD 800 has a unique serial number, each one has a slightly unique frequency response. There is baseline response all HD 800s need to meet, however they all vary slightly from it. Some people have noticed a difference between different ones.
> ...


 
 dunno with the 800's but i know it's true from experience with 3 different hd800 pairs
 . it is also true fro some other cans. the mfgs are reluctant to call small improvement (which might be a minor "fix") to attention is what happens in some cases. so they deny it when asked.


----------



## MWSVette

smy1 said:


> How could that be?
> 
> Can anyone tell me anything about the 29xxx serial?


 
 I have a set 003XXX that are from 2009.  They are now north of 50000.  So your set would be in the middle somewhere...


----------



## lurk

can anyone answer his question about putting a magnet so close to the drivers?  8.15min mark


----------



## smy1

analog'd said:


> dunno with the 800's but i know it's true from experience with 3 different hd800 pairs
> . it is also true fro some other cans. the mfgs are reluctant to call small improvement (which might be a minor "fix") to attention is what happens in some cases. so they deny it when asked.




Do you know how much the hd800 used go for?

I was thinking about picking up a pair of the 29xxx serial.


----------



## analog'd

smy1 said:


> analog'd said:
> 
> 
> > dunno with the 800's but i know it's true from experience with 3 different hd800 pairs
> ...


 
 800 used to go used for more than now, since release of s model i suppose. but they are still not inexpensive.
 look through the classifieds here. generally starting mid to high 700s as lowest if in decent shape. 800 and over if mint. best i know anyway. worth every penny. from any era. all sound amazing in my opinion.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

smy1 said:


> How could that be?
> 
> Can anyone tell me anything about the 29xxx serial?




Sounds like the revision. The original had a fuller sound. The revision is airier with more instrument separation.


----------



## smy1

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Sounds like the revision. The original had a fuller sound. The revision is airier with more instrument separation.




Is the revision bad? That airier and more separation sounds nice.

Also does anybody know how the hd800 will sound with the magni 2?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

smy1 said:


> Is the revision bad? That airier and more separation sounds nice.
> 
> Also does anybody know how the hd800 will sound with the magni 2?


 

 they're both great headphones. there is no wrong answer. it's a fine distinction; my description inevitably exaggerates the differences. 
  
 as to magni: with classical? probably fine. With heavy metal? Like schiit. 
  
 If you have sonar works, you'll likely manage.


----------



## John Q Lin

I just joined the HD800 club today, Welcome your boy yall


----------



## eeagle

smy1 said:


> Do you know how much the hd800 used go for?
> 
> I was thinking about picking up a pair of the 29xxx serial.


 
 I always check ebay's completed listings; the prices in green are the ones that actually sold.
  
ebay completed HD 800 Headphones
  
 so used price seems to be in the $700-800 range


----------



## Lavakugel

I got a HD600 and want to get a used HD800. 
  
 How is HD800 sounding with vocals? About the same as HD600?


----------



## ColtMrFire

I haven't found a single thing the HD800 doesn't excel at.  But it greatly depends on what you're plugging it into and everything (and I do mean everything) in the signal path (including how dirty or clean your power is).


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Older recordings. They sound just as harsh as they were originally recorded.


----------



## analog'd

by older are you talkin way older classical, that some people refer to as "historical" performances?


----------



## Zoom25

2 Questions:
  
 1) Anyone making balanced cables here in Canada for the HD 800?
  
 2) Anyone have experience with Best in the verse or Headphone Lounge's cables and how their material compares? I have owned 2 Headphone Lounge cables in the past for Audeze and Hifiman, although I think they were silver plated. This time I am thinking of pure copper. Any thoughts?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

analog'd said:


> by older are you talkin way older classical, that some people refer to as "historical" performances?




Correct.


----------



## analog'd

yeah, i love the furtwangler Beethoven (all of em!), but the recordings are certainly not Living Stereo.
 we are so lucky to have them though!


----------



## Arniesb

smy1 said:


> Is the revision bad? That airier and more separation sounds nice.
> 
> Also does anybody know how the hd800 will sound with the magni 2?


It will sound super harsh treble heavy. Pick other more suitable amp. Why does anyone want such sterile lifeless amp with similar tone headphones. Vali 2 whould be a better idea.


----------



## MWSVette

arniesb said:


> It will sound super harsh treble heavy. Pick other more suitable amp. Why does anyone want such sterile lifeless amp with similar tone headphones. Vali 2 whould be a better idea.


 
 2nd for the Vali 2...


----------



## ColtMrFire

The 800 seems to excel with tubes from my experience. The organic (not mushy) tube sound counteracts the headphone's analytical tendencies. And tubes have better soundstage capabilities, obviously a plus for this HP.


----------



## vl4dimir

Now that I swap my HD650 for a HD800, I was wondering if there is a consensus about which tubes sounds best with the HD800 SDR/HD800S ? Currently running EL12N+EL3N
  
 Edited: Sorry wrong post


----------



## analog'd

coltmrfire said:


> The 800 seems to excel with tubes from my experience. The organic (not mushy) tube sound counteracts the headphone's analytical tendencies. And tubes have better soundstage capabilities, obviously a plus for this HP.


 
 yeah, i have a tube in the output stage of my DAC. it does help, although it's not a very "lush" one. i tried mullards and teles, for this unit a 1961 white label amperex ny is the perfect mix of transparency but with a bit of tube warmth. the telefunken has mind blowing extended highs but is SO transparent as to not help one iota in the fashion we're discussing.

 grew up listening to tube gear in the 50's and 60's, still dig it.


 my headphone amp is a very happy solid state Burson Soloist. it drives the 800's with a lot of bass and a lot of "authority", and it's amazing with the fostex th900.


----------



## chimney189

Has anyone had a chance to pair the HD800 with a Burson Soloist SL amplifier?
  
 Would this even be an upgrade from an iFi Micro iCAN SE amplifier?


----------



## analog'd

chimney189 said:


> Has anyone had a chance to pair the HD800 with a Burson Soloist SL amplifier?
> 
> Would this even be an upgrade from an iFi Micro iCAN SE amplifier?


 
 the soloist drives the hd800 with aplomb, beautifully. it would be a giant leap, and at the difference in cost it ought to be.


----------



## chimney189

analog'd said:


> the soloist drives the hd800 with aplomb, beautifully. it would be a giant leap, and at the difference in cost it ought to be.


 
 Wonderful!


----------



## treebug

​Does anyone have experience of the LQi HD800 cable?


----------



## Vu Chau

Does anyone pair their HD 800 with an SS amp? Like the Project Polaris from Garage1217.


----------



## analog'd

vu chau said:


> Does anyone pair their HD 800 with an SS amp? Like the Project Polaris from Garage1217.


 
 the Burson Soloist mentioned by me in a previous post is solid state. the hd800 sound amazing driven by it. superb bass, despite all the fools who claim this can doesn't do much in that department. read about it, it has selectable out with varying impedance and so is killer for both senns, fostex th900, grados, beyer t1 g2, audeze lcd-3 and i imagine nearly anything else. i did have to use my power amp to properly drive HE-6 when i had them.

 somebody wrote that they got piercing highs with the soloist and hd800, but i dunno how that did that. had to be elsewhere in their path, because i am one of many many owners who are thrilled with this amp and the hd800s.


----------



## Vu Chau

analog'd said:


> the Burson Soloist mentioned by me in a previous post is solid state. the hd800 sound amazing driven by it. superb bass, despite all the fools who claim this can doesn't do much in that department. read about it, it has selectable out with varying impedance and so is killer for both senns, fostex th900, grados, beyer t1 g2, audeze lcd-3 and i imagine nearly anything else. i did have to use my power amp to properly drive HE-6 when i had them.
> 
> somebody wrote that they got piercing highs with the soloist and hd800, but i dunno how that did that. had to be elsewhere in their path, because i am one of many many owners who are thrilled with this amp and the hd800s.


 
  
 That is fascinating to hear (no pun intended). I intend to acquire one HD 800 pair for my classical listening (mostly piano and orchestral - nothing too historical, mostly 1970s recordings onward), and the most powerful amp I have is the SS Project Polaris amp from Garage1217. While being SS, it has a rather warm, tube-like, footprint (and also variable impedance) so I hope the HD 800 will pair well with it. I can also tone down the high a little bit so that would be no problem.
  
 Just wanted to make sure because everybody seems to like the HD 800 on tubes. While I love the lushness of the HD 650, hopefully the HD 800 brings some clarity and transparency to the music.


----------



## analog'd

vu chau said:


> analog'd said:
> 
> 
> > the Burson Soloist mentioned by me in a previous post is solid state. the hd800 sound amazing driven by it. superb bass, despite all the fools who claim this can doesn't do much in that department. read about it, it has selectable out with varying impedance and so is killer for both senns, fostex th900, grados, beyer t1 g2, audeze lcd-3 and i imagine nearly anything else. i did have to use my power amp to properly drive HE-6 when i had them.
> ...


 
 the hd800 will indeed bring that. it is on another level entirely from a 650. on the other hand , do you know that many, including me, find the hd580/hd600 superior to the 650 and mostly for that very reason - the 650 has a "veil". i have owned both. the 600 with a 650 cable is killer. again, not in the same universe as the HD800 in either of it's forms.
 i do have a tube in my path, in the output of my dac. but if i use the soilid state output instead, the hd800 still sound great, as they do when my source is my turntable and graham slee V phono stage (i.e. no tube). if you search around you'll find plenty of mention by others of the soloist and hd800 without a tube in the path. they say it IS hard to amp match the hd800 so your polaris may or may not do the full trick. it should sound at least ver very good, and you'd only be able to tell if you could do better by trying another amp (a/bing them). and i listen to  classical mostly with th hd800, though it can sound amazing with other genres. i listen to some historical recordings, but tons from 1950's thru 2016, both vinyl and hirez (many are needledrops of particularly great pressings of great performances).

 peace.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I havent heard the Soloist but for me the HD800 started to reveal itself more when I switched to tubes. I did not care for tubes with other headphones. The 800 seems to crave them though. Good tubes mind you, not mushy crap.


----------



## analog'd

coltmrfire said:


> I havent heard the Soloist but for me the HD800 started to reveal itself more when I switched to tubes. I did not care for tubes with other headphones. The 800 seems to crave them though. Good tubes mind you, not mushy crap.


 
 well, i'm an old tube guy, and i hear ya. my  tube in my dac output stage is an amperex white label from1960 or 61. it is the perfect tubbe for this unit. mullards were too mushy, telefunkens too bright for the hd800 in particular. but as i said the dac output without the tube sounds nearly just as good, but different a little bit.

 my power amp is a tube amp also. hell, i'd power my car with tubes if one could...


----------



## ColtMrFire

analog'd said:


> well, i'm an old tube guy, and i hear ya. my  tube in my dac output stage is an amperex white label from1960 or 61. it is the perfect tubbe for this unit. mullards were too mushy, telefunkens too bright for the hd800 in particular. but as i said the dac output without the tube sounds nearly just as good, but different a little bit.
> 
> my power amp is a tube amp also. hell, i'd power my car with tubes if one could...


 
  
 I had a pair of Bugle Boys that were unbelievable.  But one of them broke.  So I had to get a quick cheap pair of Russian Volkshods until I can get some more BBs.  The Volkshods are good, but not as good as the BBs.


----------



## analog'd

bugle boys are lovely. my first tubes in my first headphone amp (a melos). the v's from russia actually are only 2nd best in my dac to this amparex. everthing is so gear dependent. bugle boys and other mullards didn't cut it with this dac. i gave a $100 tube headphone amp to a friend and the mullard that my dac didn't "like" sounded AMAZING. seriously sounded as good as my rig!!!


----------



## ColtMrFire

Not to turn this into a tube thread but my V's only have about 50 hours on them, and the Russian tubes are supposed to take 100-200 hours to break in.  So we'll see.


----------



## nephilim32

chimney189 said:


> Wonderful!




Hi. It is wonderful. I have had the pairing for nearly 4 yrs now. It's absolutely fantastic. You match neutral with neutral. The only recommendation I would give is get a quality DAC and a cable upgrade for the HD 800. You'll be in HIFI heaven. Also you'll rarely wanna use the second gain level on the soloist. The first gain setting at 60 to 75% used is plenty. You'll see. 
Enjoy man. It's awesome.


----------



## ColtMrFire

There seem to be several versions of the Soloist.  Which version are people referring to that is a great match?
  
 EDIT:  Ah, the SL?


----------



## chimney189

nephilim32 said:


> Hi. It is wonderful. I have had the pairing for nearly 4 yrs now. It's absolutely fantastic. You match neutral with neutral. The only recommendation I would give is get a quality DAC and a cable upgrade for the HD 800. You'll be in HIFI heaven. Also you'll rarely wanna use the second gain level on the soloist. The first gain setting at 60 to 75% used is plenty. You'll see.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They look lovely together.  I'm not so sure about upgrading the cable.  The stock cable is pretty impressive as is.


----------



## jamesino

Would someone mind sharing their Equalizer APO settings?


----------



## johnjen

I too use a SS amp, the Schiit Ragnarok.
 It delivers subsonic bass with authority and reaches all the way up with an ease and delicacy that is simply wonderful.
 It also tightly controls the driver due to its VERY low output impedance and ample power in reserve.
  
 As for adding some toobz coloration/emphasis, I have achieved that in other ways.
  
 JJ


----------



## analog'd

coltmrfire said:


> There seem to be several versions of the Soloist.  Which version are people referring to that is a great match?
> 
> EDIT:  Ah, the SL?


 
 just the burson soloist. the sl is a baby brother i think. the soloist is the amp that's found (with a dac) in the burson conductor


----------



## analog'd

johnjen said:


> I too use a SS amp, the Schiit Ragnarok.
> It delivers subsonic bass with authority and reaches all the way up with an ease and delicacy that is simply wonderful.
> It also tightly controls the driver due to its VERY low output impedance and ample power in reserve.
> 
> ...


 
 yeah, there are nine million ways to skin a cat. i tweak with cables also. schiit is the good ****. when i got my friend the inexpensive tube amp and put a very expensive mullard tube in it, i sent it to her with the schiit entry level dac.


----------



## RogerWilco

analog'd said:


> bugle boys are lovely. my first tubes in my first headphone amp (a melos). the v's from russia actually are only 2nd best in my dac to this amparex. everthing is so gear dependent. bugle boys and other mullards didn't cut it with this dac. i gave a $100 tube headphone amp to a friend and the mullard that my dac didn't "like" sounded AMAZING. seriously sounded as good as my rig!!!


 
 I  had a Melos SHA Gold about 10 years ago and @ 2 g it was not a cheap piece .  In the right circuit tubes are very amazing !


----------



## Moochibond

Hi guys,
  
 Please may I have your thoughts/recommendations?
  
 Currently running: macbook pro > Teac UD 501 (single ended) > HD 800 - and YES I like the sound.
  
 Little back storey; I was running the UD-501 through a Schiit Lyr with Reflektor 75's (Holy Grail) > HD 800 & LCD 2.
  
 Have since sold the Schiit LYR and LCD2 because:
  
 - Coming out of the Lyr was (to my ear) very slightly better (More Organic/Soundstage/Bass) in some areas and very slightly worse (Slightly reduced/Veiled treble) in others when compared to coming out of the UD -501 only
 - Decided to use the funds from the Lyr / LCD 2 to buy a "better" amp from the 2nd hand market for the HD 800
  
 What amp/s would you recommend?
  
 May be helpful to add:

 - The Teac UD-501 has balanced outs - so could go fully balanced - I think I am right in saying this?
 - My taste in music is very elcetic
 - In the near 'ish" future would like to buy another set of Planars, possibly the HE 500 (Again!) 
  
 I do not have thousands of $/£ so e.g. GS-X, Beta 2, Master 9, WA 22 etc. are all out.
  
 Ideas I think may offer good price/performance inc.
  
 - NuForce HA-200 x 2 (Dual Mono-block)
 - First Watt M2 (if i can find one!)
 - Laconic Labs Midnight Blues Mini 
 - Musical Fidelity MX-HPA
 - Liquid Carbon (2nd Hand - don't really want to spend more than the cost of one of these)
 - Parasound Zamp V3
  
 Thanks in advance!
  
 Mooch


----------



## ColtMrFire

The Lyr also greatly depends on the DAC being used especially with the HD800. I use the Mimby/Lyr and its a stellar combo. Better for the HD800 than my previous Jotunheim. I honestly think you'd have to spend thousands to get significantly better sound from an amp. Otherwise you are likely getting pointless sidegrades. You are probably better off getting a multibit DAC like the Mimby ($250) that competes easily with $1K - $2K DACs. It makes a noticeable difference for such a transparent headphone.


----------



## Rozenberg

moochibond said:


> - Laconic Labs Midnight Blues Mini


 
 This one seems to be well regarded on the other forum. Might not go wrong, but even if you do, it should be pretty easy to resell without loss.


> - Liquid Carbon (2nd Hand - don't really want to spend more than the cost of one of these)


 
 Personally only have experience with this one. Nice warmish sound, bass got nice kick and all, but unfortunately (for me) the treble got toned down a bit which caused some loss in extension.
 The Carbon seems to have good resale value as well as long warranty is still valid (for 1st version).
  
 On another note, I got a modified Cavalli SOHA II and so far really liking it. Just need better ECC88 tubes to make it compatible when rolling my Crimson as well and I'm set.


----------



## mrmarano

vu chau said:


> Does anyone pair their HD 800 with an SS amp? Like the Project Polaris from Garage1217.


 
  
  
 Yep.
  
 Headroom BUDA. Vintage, yes. And it sounds awesome.


----------



## Rockin_Zombie

moochibond said:


> - First Watt M2 (if i can find one!)


 
 I can vouch for First Watt. My J2 + HD800S pairing is marvelous. Who says HD800 lacks bass? Granted mine is HD800S, but there's way more slam with the J2 compared to other amps I have tried (Benchmark DAC 3 built-in amp, a lowly little dot tube amp) . As a bonus if you have a decent speaker setup the amp can do double duty.


----------



## jibzilla

analog'd said:


> just the burson soloist. the sl is a baby brother i think. the soloist is the amp that's found (with a dac) in the burson conductor


 
  
 I owned the soloist as well. It was a great amp but I felt it was more of an all arounder than voiced particularly for the hd800. For the hd800 in that price range I would look for a used headroom(BUDA), beezar torpedo, or bottlehead mainline. These amps were voiced with the hd800 in mind imo.


----------



## analog'd

jibzilla said:


> analog'd said:
> 
> 
> > just the burson soloist. the sl is a baby brother i think. the soloist is the amp that's found (with a dac) in the burson conductor
> ...


 
 i agree that were i buying an amp AFTER buying the hd800, i would not necessarily want the burson. i'd audition more. but having owned it it's adaptability to do well with so many cans is important to me because of my limited budget. i used to have a ray samuals hr2 for the same reasons.


----------



## jibzilla

coltmrfire said:


> I havent heard the Soloist but for me the HD800 started to reveal itself more when I switched to tubes. I did not care for tubes with other headphones. The 800 seems to crave them though. Good tubes mind you, not mushy crap.


 
  
 I really like mixing tube with SS. Either source or amp mixing the two together gives a sound that's the best of both worlds.


----------



## jamesino

I've been playing around with Equalizer Apo to tame down the 6KHz peak and it sounds pretty good. Do you guys dial it down at 6000 Hz exactly, or do you guys dial it down at 6500 Hz, which is where the peak seems to be from online FR charts?
  
 Also, what is the difference between Sonarworks and Equalizer, aside from cost?


----------



## screwdriver

i used to own  alo studio 6 , decware csp3 , sennheiser hdva600 in the past - now i dont have a dedicated headphone amplifier -  im, using the sophia electric el34 from my speaker system to drive the sennheisers  hd800 and hifiman he1000- i have to use a hifiman adapter so  ican connect XLR - sounds excellent imo with a rega dac r , oppo 201 player to play flac files


----------



## artpiggo

vu chau said:


> Does anyone pair their HD 800 with an SS amp? Like the Project Polaris from Garage1217.




HD800 + Lisa L3 is a great match. It has bass boost option also. Set it some point at 5 o clock. 

Also, I once test HD800 + cary HH1 which is hybrid tube+ SS. Total amazing matching ever. I regret that I couldn't find it in my country anymore.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Mjolnir 2 with lisst is fine; with sonarworks its great.


----------



## RCBinTN

vu chau said:


> Does anyone pair their HD 800 with an SS amp? Like the Project Polaris from Garage1217.


 
  
 Catching up.  My un-modded HD800 are paired with the Bryston BHA-1 SS amp.  The SQ is great when fed by the Gungnir MB DAC.  Super resolving and very nice bass - even makes (well recorded) rock music shine.  It's not overly bright, to my ears.
  
 I have read a lot of positive comments about pairing with the Mjolnir2, as I think @bosiemoncrieff posted earlier.
  
 I have heard better rigs than my system.  The pairing with the Yggy and Ragnarok was super-punchy and smooth.  The best I've heard, however, was driving with the Yggy and Woo WA5 (of course, it's a tube amp).  The SQ with the Yggy/WA5 was just superb.  Both of those rigs were on-display at a HP meet in Nashville; they are a bit more expensive than my gear .
  
 Cheers,
 RCBinTN


----------



## bearFNF

Cavalli Liquid Gold does a great job with the HD800.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I also got to hear the HD800 with the Yggy/Rag combo and it was quite incredible.  Nice and full bodied with great depth and layering.  Not harsh.  Must be used with a balanced cable though to get the best sound, as the SE connection is gimped.
  
 The best Solid State I heard though was the Black Widow/Yggy.  That was something even the Rag couldn't touch.  It sounded like a tube amp even though it was SS.  Crazy.  But good luck finding one.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

*Thoughts on Sonarworks*
  
 There is no question that the EQ curve that Sonarworks gives HD800 is the single most significant sonic change possible to the headphones: more so than DAC, amp, and indeed the physical mods to tame the 6khz peak. It is uniquely able to be turned on and off instantaneously. While the EQ'd sound is essentially a prerequisite for every genre other than classical, I am oddly indifferent about its effect on classical music. Although Sonarworks improves listenability of poorly recorded and 'historical' recordings, the stock treble energy creates some of the sparkle that adds a secret sauce to many well-recorded documents that I am loath to give up. The EQ unquestionably reduced the soundstage. Furthermore, while few would call HD800 a "euphonic" headphone, I find its stock colorations (albeit entirely on the bright/cold side of the ledger) to add a naturalness or realism to some classical music that the more neutral frequency doesn't provide. The sense of space feels more well-defined, even as the sound is less emotive and satisfying. 
  
 Perhaps this is an instance of masochistically finding something worthwhile in what is not strictly beautiful, of coding harshness or abrasiveness as "accuracy," but for orchestral music (and nineteenth century orchestral music more or less alone), I think I will use SW perhaps half the time, and bypass it the other half. For piano, chamber, and pop, stock is more or less categorically inferior. 
  
 Sonarworks is uniquely adept at eliminating white noise. For instance, in the Kempff stereo Beethoven cycle, although SW leaves in some low hiss in the middle register, the treble cut reduces the sound dramatically. Moreover, that lower register is less noticeable by far than the treble. 
  
 SW is cheaper than a tube amp, cheaper than a multibit dac, cheaper than going balanced—it's 5 months of Tidal, to the dollar, and I would take a 256 kbps source though SW over lossless without any day. We should create a flowchart for chain recommendations for HD800.
  
 Are you using SonarWorks? Yes -> Your Magni/Modi stack is probably fine, though Vali/Mimby may give you that last 10-15%. 
 No -> get SW, or get MJ2, Gumby, balanced cables, '75 Reflektor tubes, and still find HD800 just "ok" for anything other than classical.


----------



## FLTWS

Quote:


bosiemoncrieff said:


> *Thoughts on Sonarworks*
> 
> There is no question that the EQ curve that Sonarworks gives HD800 is the single most significant sonic change possible to the headphones: more so than DAC, amp, and indeed the physical mods to tame the 6khz peak. It is uniquely able to be turned on and off instantaneously. While the EQ'd sound is essentially a prerequisite for every genre other than classical, I am oddly indifferent about its effect on classical music. Although Sonarworks improves listenability of poorly recorded and 'historical' recordings, the stock treble energy creates some of the sparkle that adds a secret sauce to many well-recorded documents that I am loath to give up. The EQ unquestionably reduced the soundstage. Furthermore, while few would call HD800 a "euphonic" headphone, I find its stock colorations (albeit entirely on the bright/cold side of the ledger) to add a naturalness or realism to some classical music that the more neutral frequency doesn't provide. The sense of space feels more well-defined, even as the sound is less emotive and satisfying.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm only OCD about classical genres and particularly the Late Romantics and 20th Century composers. Jazz, rock, pop, etc., I just don't listen that hard to those and other non-classical genres to question how the sound relates to the sound of "real" in an acoustic space. I just enjoy them for what they are musically. It's unlikely I'll ever get involved with EQ'ing.
  
 I've got enough different Schiit amps (and the Class A Oppo is no slouch either fed by Yggy), and 12 premium tube sets for MJ2, that I think I can find the right flavor for whatever I'm listening to with either my stock HD800 or Utopia.
  
 Thanks for your thoughts, they're always a good read.


----------



## jibzilla

I really wish there was a separate mod/sonarworks thread.


----------



## neilmanalo

I  gold modded my HD800's! What do you guys think?? Its real gold coated, not just gold paint, I used real gold flakes and covered the whole headphone. Took me about  1 week to complete. The polishing was the hardest part to make it look smooth.


----------



## Fegefeuer




----------



## ColtMrFire

Uhhhh.....


----------



## DavidA

@neilmanalo, beautiful work, very impressive


----------



## Moochibond

Very impressive!


----------



## Rockin_Zombie

that looks sick, well done!


----------



## MWSVette

Very Nice...


----------



## BabetakCZE

Hi, I’ve bought recently HD 800 and I like them very much. Right now I have Geek Out V1 but I want something better. I have budget 750€.
My top picks: Chord Mojo
                   IFI iDSD Black Label


----------



## ColtMrFire

I suggest getting the Modi mulitibit DAC ($250), which is the best deal in all of headphonia IMO, and likely an end game DAC for anybody.  The HD800 really craves the kind of natural, spacious and tonal accuracy of mulitibit DACs.
  
 If you like solid state, people really like the Burston Soloist amp.  For tubes (and I really think the 800 is best with tubes), the Valhalla 2 is one of the best deals you can get, and you'd still have money left over for better tubes.


----------



## Phillay

I came across someone in my area selling their HD 800 for $600.00 Canadian. I was thinking about purchasing them but they are over 2 years old and is missing the box and accessories that came with it. The only thing it comes with it just the headphones and the cables. Should I still pick these up or should I save up and get a new pair. The owner claims they are in brand new condition as they were hardly used. The serial number on them is 18xxx.
  
 Thoughts?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Rozenberg

phillay said:


> I came across someone in my area selling their HD 800 for $600.00 Canadian. I was thinking about purchasing them but they are over 2 years old and is missing the box and accessories that came with it. The only thing it comes with it just the headphones and the cables. Should I still pick these up or should I save up and get a new pair. The owner claims they are in brand new condition as they were hardly used. The serial number on them is 18xxx.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks


 
 If you don't mind them without the box, sure go ahead.
  
 Though I doubt the "brand new condition". You gotta ask the seller for detailed pics and make sure everything is in order (headband slider not loose, solid joint, pads not flat etc).


----------



## Phillay

I'm going to inspect everything tomorrow to make sure nothing is loose and do a sound test before I buy them from him. Just wondering if it's a good deal considering there's no warranty and no box.
  
 Thanks


----------



## PleasantSounds

phillay said:


> I'm going to inspect everything tomorrow to make sure nothing is loose and do a sound test before I buy them from him. Just wondering if it's a good deal considering there's no warranty and no box.
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 If they are in decent condition then the risk is pretty small. There's not a lot of reports of HD-800 breaking down, and many users enjoy them for years.
 My pair is also from the 18xxx range and I had them for about 4 years, so the age may be a bit more than ststed.


----------



## Rozenberg

phillay said:


> I'm going to inspect everything tomorrow to make sure nothing is loose and do a sound test before I buy them from him. Just wondering if it's a good deal considering there's no warranty and no box.
> 
> Thanks


 
 No need to be worried about warranty. HD800 is strong, my older one (02XXX) still performs the same as my newer one (33XXX).
  
 It's a good deal as long it's still functional and probably the lowest you could find in your country.


----------



## MattTCG

As others have said, the hd800 is a very durable product. Make that the cup adjustment slides well and stays in place once you've fit it for your head size. Pads and headband are not cheap, so if those parts need replacement be sure to take that into account. Also check the cable closely to be sure that it doesn't have any breaks or cuts. The cable would be costly to replace as well. 
  
 Otherwise, for the right price it's definitely worth picking up used.


----------



## eeagle

phillay said:


> I came across someone in my area selling their HD 800 for $600.00 Canadian. I was thinking about purchasing them but they are over 2 years old and is missing the box and accessories that came with it. The only thing it comes with it just the headphones and the cables. Should I still pick these up or should I save up and get a new pair. The owner claims they are in brand new condition as they were hardly used. The serial number on them is 18xxx.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks


 
 $600 Canadian is about $450 US if my calculation is correct which would certainly be a good deal in like new condition.
  
 New HD800 S/Ns are above 45xxx now, some report the new ones sounding different than the older; give them a try and If you like what you hear go for it.
  
 The HD800 comes with a SE cable and a fancy box so you would not be missing much in that department; included instruction can be had in pdf from Sennheiser.


----------



## Phillay

@MattTCG  Thanks for the heads up! I'll definitely make sure to check for those!


----------



## eeagle

@neilmanalo  Nice job.....Looks like something the new POTUS would go for!


----------



## Phillay

Thanks @eeagle


eeagle said:


> $600 Canadian is about $450 US if my calculation is correct which would certainly be a good deal in like new condition.
> 
> New HD800 S/Ns are above 45xxx now, some report the new ones sounding different than the older; give them a try and If you like what you hear go for it.
> 
> The HD800 comes with a SE cable and a fancy box so you would not be missing much in that department; included instruction can be had in pdf from Sennheiser.


 
  
 Thanks! I should let you guys know that I've just recently gotten into the audiophile community so I'm still pretty new with all this. Forgive me if this is a stupid question but aside from the cable that it should come with, what is the SE cable?
  
 Thanks


----------



## eeagle

SE=Single Ended vs Balance XLR.  In other words std 1/4" phone plug/


----------



## ColtMrFire

phillay said:


> I'm going to inspect everything tomorrow to make sure nothing is loose and do a sound test before I buy them from him. Just wondering if it's a good deal considering there's no warranty and no box.
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 It's a no brainer.  You're getting a TOTL headphone for dirt cheap.  Unless it's falling apart, make the deal.


----------



## analog'd

phillay said:


> I came across someone in my area selling their HD 800 for $600.00 Canadian. I was thinking about purchasing them but they are over 2 years old and is missing the box and accessories that came with it. The only thing it comes with it just the headphones and the cables. Should I still pick these up or should I save up and get a new pair. The owner claims they are in brand new condition as they were hardly used. The serial number on them is 18xxx.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks


 
 unless you are spending top dollar (like 850 to 900 usd) for a pair that someone is claiming is mint, there is no reason to hesitate based on the box. and there were no accessories so ALL you are missing is the box and paprework. way back when those were sold there wasn't much paperwork either. now there's a booklet AND a thumb drive (containing the graph from sennheiser from the test on the pair at hand).   

 that is a KILLER price. where are you located?


----------



## Phillay

@analog'd I'm in Alberta, Canada. I ended up picking them up today, I couldn't wait. I tried them out on his set up and they sounded like god was whispering into my ears sweet melodies of lucky charms and rainbows. Okay I over-exaggerated haha but they did sound REALLY good.
  
@MattTCG Everything checked out fine except one thing. There is a tiny creaking noise when I rotate the right ear cup at the hinge. It sounds almost like there is a spring loose or something which should be a relatively easy fix. There was also a tiny mark on the top left ear cup but otherwise, it's in at least 7.5 condition out of 10. Headband adjustments were perfectly fine and ear pads looked almost brand new. Cable had no rips, tears or frays.
  
 Any idea about the creaking in the right ear cup though? Is that something common or is that something that I just need to take to a repair shop to get looked at? I could unscrew it myself but it being what it is, I don't know if I trust myself to take even the headband apart!

 Thanks!
  
 Also any amp recommendations would be greatly appreciated as right now I only have a Fiio E17K and a JDS Labs O2. I was thinking about getting the Schiit Magni 2 Uber with the Modi 2 Multibit.


----------



## Phillay

There they are looking all beautiful 
  

  
 That's the tiny mark on the left earcup
  

  
 And this is the creaky hinge. It only makes noise when it's rotated left and right, not up and down.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Congrats!  I've heard about the creaking thing, happened to a few people.  Seems like a minor issue on such a great deal.
  
 Now you have to get the right DAC/amp.  You can't go wrong with the Modi multibit, a $250 DAC that handily competes with $1K - $2K DACs, and the HD800 loves all that resolution and natural smooth tonality.  Amps are all over the map but it's best not to get anything too bright.  The HD800 seems to love tubes, but SS is great as well if you can find a smooth one that doesn't smear detail.  Alot of the Schiit amps are really amazing deals.


----------



## elgringo81

Just saw this and wanted to share it.
  
 I guess in Netherlands it does not matter how you turn the HD800.

https://www.hifi.nl/artikel/20421/NAVD-primeur-Hoofdtelefoonversterkers-Sennheiser.html


----------



## MattTCG

@Phillay
  
 You can watch the video at the end of the article I'll link here. I've never had any creaking noise coming from the hd800 nor heard of any. They are incredibly precision crafted and usually don't have any mechanical issues. Be very careful working around the driver if you decide to do any tweaks.
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sennheiser-hd-800-s-tweaked-and-delightfuland-french-diy-response-page-2#CY6R1KjqjVvLRSMv.97


----------



## analog'd

phillay said:


> @analog'd I'm in Alberta, Canada. I ended up picking them up today, I couldn't wait. I tried them out on his set up and they sounded like god was whispering into my ears sweet melodies of lucky charms and rainbows. Okay I over-exaggerated haha but they did sound REALLY good.
> 
> @MattTCG Everything checked out fine except one thing. There is a tiny creaking noise when I rotate the right ear cup at the hinge. It sounds almost like there is a spring loose or something which should be a relatively easy fix. There was also a tiny mark on the top left ear cup but otherwise, it's in at least 7.5 condition out of 10. Headband adjustments were perfectly fine and ear pads looked almost brand new. Cable had no rips, tears or frays.
> 
> ...


 
 ok. now that we know you love them, they deserve a box. i have an extra although it's not mint by any means. scuffed but intact and waay better than not having one.   it's yours if you want it. you just have to agree to pay to have it sent to you from massachusetts. i will try to get a quote for you on what that would cost.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Now that's pretty gracious there.


----------



## analog'd

regarding the creak: I would call Sennheiser (in usa they are in ct, or they were). they may very well have a fix, or at least be able to fix for you. at the price you got them i think it'd be worth it even were you to have to ship it to them.


----------



## analog'd

matttcg said:


> ^^ Now that's pretty gracious there.


 
 many people have helped me along the way in my audiophoolish pursuits. a lot of this goes on among us. cause we all so cool... (hah!) 

 i got a story: 
 i used to run a friend's record shop for him on sundays. it was a blast. one day i'm playin' pet sounds or something (i know it was beach boys) and a guy comes up to the counter and starts a conversation. said he liked my taste in music. we're talkin, and i mention i'm a headphone guy now as my kids are little(this is 25 years ago) and i can't power up the speaks too much. he asks about gear. i tell him i just got a melos headphone amp that is supposed to sound great but that it sucks. he says "hmmm".

 the guy comes back in the next sunday, gives me a small box and says, "this is what yer melos needs. also it should change yer life".

 a gift. from a stranger. it contained a very fine condition old bugle boy tube!!! needless to say, he was right on both counts. replaced the hateful sovtek piece of **** that they shipped them with, let the bugle boy warm up for 10 minutes, and WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

 this guy buys and sells a lotta gear in his own phoolishness. has like a dozen different audiophile rigs set up around his huge basement. waay into analog. i still can't get him to give high rez from computers a try, though he's been one of my best friends for a quarter century. his gift taught me alot about passing it on.


----------



## Phillay

analog'd said:


> ok. now that we know you love them, they deserve a box. i have an extra although it's not mint by any means. scuffed but intact and waay better than not having one.   it's yours if you want it. you just have to agree to pay to have it sent to you from massachusetts. i will try to get a quote for you on what that would cost.


 
 Wow, that is extremely amazing and kind of you! I would absolutely be willing to pay to have it sent to me! I really appreciate that, thank you!


----------



## Phillay

analog'd said:


> many people have helped me along the way in my audiophoolish pursuits. a lot of this goes on among us. cause we all so cool... (hah!)
> 
> i got a story:
> i used to run a friend's record shop for him on sundays. it was a blast. one day i'm playin' pet sounds or something (i know it was beach boys) and a guy comes up to the counter and starts a conversation. said he liked my taste in music. we're talkin, and i mention i'm a headphone guy now as my kids are little(this is 25 years ago) and i can't power up the speaks too much. he asks about gear. i tell him i just got a melos headphone amp that is supposed to sound great but that it sucks. he says "hmmm".
> ...


 
 Wicked story! I'm still extremely new to the audiophile community and I've spent a lot of time combing through all the threads trying to soak up as much information as I can. Every time I've had a question, it seems like there's someone there willing to help answer the question. This is such an awesome community!


----------



## Phillay

matttcg said:


> @Phillay
> 
> You can watch the video at the end of the article I'll link here. I've never had any creaking noise coming from the hd800 nor heard of any. They are incredibly precision crafted and usually don't have any mechanical issues. Be very careful working around the driver if you decide to do any tweaks.
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sennheiser-hd-800-s-tweaked-and-delightfuland-french-diy-response-page-2#CY6R1KjqjVvLRSMv.97


 
 Thank you for that video, you are truly a gentleman! That little spring was definitely what was making that creak! I didn't even know you could pop out the pin from the bottom! I popped the it off and the spring just fell out of the notch it's supposed to sit in. Set it again and the creak is GONE!
  

 Thanks @MattTCG for that!!


----------



## eeagle

elgringo81 said:


> Just saw this and wanted to share it.
> 
> I guess in Netherlands it does not matter how you turn the HD800.
> 
> https://www.hifi.nl/artikel/20421/NAVD-primeur-Hoofdtelefoonversterkers-Sennheiser.html


 
 That is pretty funny especially when the L & R are so clearly marked on the HD800.
  
 At least they are listening with Sennheiser's flagship DAC/Amp the HDVD800 which I find to be a great match for the HD800.


----------



## analog'd

phillay said:


> analog'd said:
> 
> 
> > ok. now that we know you love them, they deserve a box. i have an extra although it's not mint by any means. scuffed but intact and waay better than not having one.   it's yours if you want it. you just have to agree to pay to have it sent to you from massachusetts. i will try to get a quote for you on what that would cost.
> ...


 
 k . i will get by the post office today or tomorrow and get the info (ie i will bring em and have them quote me).


----------



## Phillay

analog'd said:


> k . i will get by the post office today or tomorrow and get the info (ie i will bring em and have them quote me).


 
 Thank you kind sir!


----------



## analog'd

Philay, what other gear are you using?  dac headamp other sources etc?


----------



## Phillay

analog'd said:


> Philay, what other gear are you using?  dac headamp other sources etc?


 
 Well I recently started getting into the audiophile world so I know I need to upgrade my amp/dac but this is my collection so far:
  
 Headphones:
  
 Hifiman HE400
 Hifiman HE400i
 AKG K7xx
 Sony MDR 1000X
 and of course the Sennheiser HD 800
  
 Amp/Dac:
  
 Fiio E17K
 JDS Labs O2 Amp (no ODAC)
  
 Source:
  
 Tidal on HiFi streaming
  
 I also have a LOT of cd's that I'll need to rip. Any good software recommendations for that?
  
 Looking at upgrading my amp/dac next and then finally a good Hi-Res Audio Player.


----------



## Zoom25

> Originally Posted by *Phillay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> *Any good software recommendations for that?*
> 
> Looking at upgrading my amp/dac next and then *finally a good Hi-Res Audio Player.*


 
 Exact Audio Copy - Windows
  
 XLD - Mac
  
 Good decision on considering a dedicated player (unless you meant a portable player?). It will help everything down the chain.


----------



## Phillay

zoom25 said:


> Exact Audio Copy - Windows
> 
> XLD - Mac
> 
> Good decision on considering a dedicated player (unless you meant a portable player?). It will help everything down the chain.


 
 I was meaning a portable player, but I was also thinking of using an old DVD player with optical out to the amp as an at home player. Any better recommendations?


----------



## Phillay

zoom25 said:


> Exact Audio Copy - Windows
> 
> XLD - Mac
> 
> Good decision on considering a dedicated player (unless you meant a portable player?). It will help everything down the chain.


 
 Also, any good recommendations for an audio player for the Mac? I know there isn't a Foobar for Mac (or is there?)
  
 Thanks


----------



## Zoom25

phillay said:


> I was meaning a portable player, but I was also thinking of using an old DVD player with optical out to the amp as an at home player. Any better recommendations?


 

 Depends on the budget. Not all digital transports are the same outputting the same file. For example, my Bryston BDP-1 blows away all my Marantz and Sony CD players and DVD players outputting via either optical or SPDIF.
  
 BTW I had the same idea as you a few years back for my rig, but when I hear the BDP-1, it was quickly shot down.


----------



## Zoom25

phillay said:


> Also, any good recommendations for an audio player for the Mac? I know there isn't a Foobar for Mac (or is there?)
> 
> Thanks


 

 Audirvana Plus for local playback. Amarra SQ for streaming purposes like Youtube, Spotify, Netflix.


----------



## Phillay

zoom25 said:


> Depends on the budget. Not all digital transports are the same outputting the same file. For example, my Bryston BDP-1 blows away all my Marantz and Sony CD players and DVD players outputting via either optical or SPDIF.
> 
> BTW I had the same idea as you a few years back for my rig, but when I hear the BDP-1, it was quickly shot down.


 
 I don't really have a large budget. Looking for the best bang for buck kind of deal. Hopefully I can be under $500 CAD.


----------



## ColtMrFire

phillay said:


> I don't really have a large budget. Looking for the best bang for buck kind of deal. Hopefully I can be under $500 CAD.


 
  
 You definitely want to go for Schiit gear then, punches WELL above their price range.  Modi multibit $250 plus Vali 2 $175 and a little left over for a really good upgrade tube.  Plus they have a 15 day return policy for you to make up your mind.


----------



## ColtMrFire

If you can stretch another $100 you can get the Valhalla 2 $350, or luck out and find a used one.  V2 is one of THE hot recommended tube amps for the HD800.  But you'd have two tubes to roll, so tube rolling would be a little pricier.  
  
 I have the Lyr which i got for $200 used locally, amazing performance for the money.  Between this and the modi MB I could stop right now and be in end game heaven.  
  
 But of course we all know in this hobby it's not gonna happen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 EDIT: Sorry, forgo you meant CAD, not USD.  That's going to be a bit tougher.  I suggest upping your budget a bit to get those items I mentioned, because you have too good of a headphone now to skimp on the gear... HD800 will punish you for feeding it poor gear.  Good news is most of the Schiit stuff is affordable and competes with more expensive stuff.


----------



## Zoom25

phillay said:


> I don't really have a large budget. Looking for the best bang for buck kind of deal. Hopefully I can be under $500 CAD.


 

 If you get a HD 800 and like it, I will suggest going slow and saving up and enjoying the journey. The HD 800 for better or worse is a bottomless pit that will draw your attention to any and every change. Buy a component once every year or two and get it right. I still think this applies regardless of which headphone you end up with, but especially so with the HD 800.
  
 As for the current budget, I would recommend checking out Canuck Audio Mart. There's a dedicated streamer section for sale. Stuff like Auralic Aries Mini, Bluesound Node, Cambridge Audio streamers. You might be able to find something at that price. Have a look.


----------



## Phillay

zoom25 said:


> If you get a HD 800 and like it, I will suggest going slow and saving up and enjoying the journey. The HD 800 for better or worse is a bottomless pit that will draw your attention to any and every change. Buy a component once every year or two and get it right. I still think this applies regardless of which headphone you end up with, but especially so with the HD 800.
> 
> As for the current budget, I would recommend checking out Canuck Audio Mart. There's a dedicated streamer section for sale. Stuff like Auralic Aries Mini, Bluesound Node, Cambridge Audio streamers. You might be able to find something at that price. Have a look.


 
 That's awesome advice. Sounds like it will be a fun trip! Thanks!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Gonna ask thread in general: baby Orpheus, or he1k?


----------



## cycle53x12

Anyone heard the iFi - Pro iCan Headphone Amp with HD800. It has both SS and tube. Looks like a nice amp. Looking for something that will pair well with my HD800 and Audeze XC.


----------



## Phillay

coltmrfire said:


> If you can stretch another $100 you can get the Valhalla 2 $350, or luck out and find a used one.  V2 is one of THE hot recommended tube amps for the HD800.  But you'd have two tubes to roll, so tube rolling would be a little pricier.
> 
> I have the Lyr which i got for $200 used locally, amazing performance for the money.  Between this and the modi MB I could stop right now and be in end game heaven.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So I couldn't help it and have been spending all day looking back and forth at my different options and combos for amps and dacs. I'm leaning more towards the Modi 2 Multibit and now debating between the Valhalla 2 or Lyr 2. Due to my budget right now it looks like I'll have to purchase one then the other later. Would you recommend the Lyr 2 or the Valhalla 2? and any suggestions as to which I should get first? (although budget right now makes me lean towards the Multibit first but I could stretch to get amp first if I'll get better immediate results). Otherwise I would just temporarily run the Multi with my O2.
  
 I should note that lately I've been daisy chaining my Fiio E17K as a dac and using the headphone out to the line in on my O2. I'm not sure if that's really making a significant difference or I'm just being an idiot and double amping my headphones :s.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## TokenGesture

Had an HD800, sold it, missed it, and just re-bought one from a headfier via the classifieds  Going to team it with my V280 amp. Maybe get a balanced Norne cable down the road (previously had a singled ended Draug2).  Exciting !


----------



## Fegefeuer

definitely get a balanced cable with that amp to make full use of its design


----------



## Phillay

fegefeuer said:


> definitely get a balanced cable with that amp to make full use of its design


 
 Which amp are you referring to Fegefeuer?


----------



## ColtMrFire

phillay said:


> So I couldn't help it and have been spending all day looking back and forth at my different options and combos for amps and dacs. I'm leaning more towards the Modi 2 Multibit and now debating between the Valhalla 2 or Lyr 2. Due to my budget right now it looks like I'll have to purchase one then the other later. Would you recommend the Lyr 2 or the Valhalla 2? and any suggestions as to which I should get first? (although budget right now makes me lean towards the Multibit first but I could stretch to get amp first if I'll get better immediate results). Otherwise I would just temporarily run the Multi with my O2.
> 
> I should note that lately I've been daisy chaining my Fiio E17K as a dac and using the headphone out to the line in on my O2. I'm not sure if that's really making a significant difference or I'm just being an idiot and double amping my headphones :s.
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 For the HD800 they say the Valhalla 2 is better, since it is made for high impedeance headphones, while the Lyr 2 is made for a wider variety of HPs.  If you have multiple HPs with different impedances, the Lyr is the better buy.  I have owned the Val2 and my only reservation with it was a lack of SLAM factor.  The Lyr doesn't really have that problem if you get decent tubes (the stock tubes suck).  I sold the Val2 for that reason.  I now have the Lyr 1, and with nice upgrade tubes (I have a pair of Siemens 7308s) it is amazing match with the HD800.  BUT, this is also with the Modi Multibit, so that is a must buy because the amp is only as good as the DAC feeding it and the Modi MB is probably the best DAC you can buy for the money.  Lyr also responds better to tube rolling... it can sound amazing with decent tubes.


----------



## Phillay

coltmrfire said:


> For the HD800 they say the Valhalla 2 is better, since it is made for high impedeance headphones, while the Lyr 2 is made for a wider variety of HPs.  If you have multiple HPs with different impedances, the Lyr is the better buy.  I have owned the Val2 and my only reservation with it was a lack of SLAM factor.  The Lyr doesn't really have that problem if you get decent tubes (the stock tubes suck).  I sold the Val2 for that reason.  I now have the Lyr 1, and with nice upgrade tubes (I have a pair of Siemens 7308s) it is amazing match with the HD800.  BUT, this is also with the Modi Multibit, so that is a must buy because the amp is only as good as the DAC feeding it and the Modi MB is probably the best DAC you can buy for the money.  Lyr also responds better to tube rolling... it can sound amazing with decent tubes.


 
 Well I do definitely plan on driving my Hifiman HE 400 and 400i's with them as well as my AKG K7xx. So are you saying I should get the Modi MB first to use with myJDS O2 and then have my next purchase be the Lyr?


----------



## TokenGesture

phillay said:


> Which amp are you referring to Fegefeuer?


 

 My Violectric V280, I think (it was a reply to me I believe)


----------



## Fegefeuer

tokengesture said:


> My Violectric V280, I think (it was a reply to me I believe)


 
  
 yep


----------



## ColtMrFire

phillay said:


> Well I do definitely plan on driving my Hifiman HE 400 and 400i's with them as well as my AKG K7xx. So are you saying I should get the Modi MB first to use with myJDS O2 and then have my next purchase be the Lyr?




Sure, if you wanna spread out your purchases. Either way the Lyr is going to be better since you have multiple headphones. But the ModiMB should be a significant upgrade no matter what the amp. The HD800 is sensitive to any change in your gear and it loves the resolution, smoothness and huge soundstage of the Mimby.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Not everyone believes in cables but you should seriously consider upgrading those at some point as any bottlenecks will hold your chain back. And I'm not talking about expensive snake oil, just something better than stock cables. I have the Morrow MA1 RCA cables ($50) and they are truly incredible, blow everything else I've tried out of the water (including pricier cables). I also upgraded my coax cable to a blue jeans model ($30 I think) and it was an appreciable upgrade. If you use computer audio the LH Labs 1G was a significant upgrade over my old stock usb and it wasnt expensive.


----------



## DavidA

phillay said:


> Well I do definitely plan on driving my Hifiman HE 400 and 400i's with them as well as my AKG K7xx. So are you saying I should get the Modi MB first to use with myJDS O2 and then have my next purchase be the Lyr?


 
 I would get the Lyr2 first since it would make the biggest change over the O2 (which is really not a good pairing with the HD800).  Just remember that the tubes (good ones) might be quite pricy.  The Siemens CCa's are about $180 each while the cheaper ones are about $45 each.


----------



## MattTCG

+1 on lyr 2 with good tubes.


----------



## mrmarano

matttcg said:


> ^^ Now that's pretty gracious there.


 
  
 Indeed. Considering a new replacement box costs something like $200, as Sennheiser listed it when I checked about a year ago.


----------



## ColtMrFire

davida said:


> I would get the Lyr2 first since it would make the biggest change over the O2 (which is really not a good pairing with the HD800).  Just remember that the tubes (good ones) might be quite pricy.  The Siemens CCa's are about $180 each while the cheaper ones are about $45 each.


 
  
 There are plenty of good deals to be had on excellent tubes.  Got a pair of Siemens 7308s for $80 on the classifieds.  You just have to be patient and persistent.  Beware of ebay, as I've gotten nothing but noisy tubes from there.  It's best to ask the seller if they test for noise, because alot of them don't.
  
 There are also folks in the Lyr tube rolling thread with lots of backstock willing to sell for a decent price.


----------



## Phillay

coltmrfire said:


> Not everyone believes in cables but you should seriously consider upgrading those at some point as any bottlenecks will hold your chain back. And I'm not talking about expensive snake oil, just something better than stock cables. I have the Morrow MA1 RCA cables ($50) and they are truly incredible, blow everything else I've tried out of the water (including pricier cables). I also upgraded my coax cable to a blue jeans model ($30 I think) and it was an appreciable upgrade. If you use computer audio the LH Labs 1G was a significant upgrade over my old stock usb and it wasnt expensive.


 
 Thanks for that info. I was thinking about adding in the PYST cables from Schiits website as well. Thanks for the tips on the ebay tubes too!
  
 There is a local store here that sells the Woo Audio WA7 Firefly here (although for much more, but I guess pretty close in price if you add the modi multi and lyr2 together), do you have any experience or thoughts on having those to pair with the cans that I have right now (especially the 800)?


----------



## ColtMrFire

phillay said:


> Thanks for that info. I was thinking about adding in the PYST cables from Schiits website as well. Thanks for the tips on the ebay tubes too!
> 
> There is a local store here that sells the Woo Audio WA7 Firefly here (although for much more, but I guess pretty close in price if you add the modi multi and lyr2 together), do you have any experience or thoughts on having those to pair with the cans that I have right now (especially the 800)?


 
  
 Never heard the WA7.  But I would not forget the Modi MB, it's going to make all the difference with a proper amp and the HD800.  You are more flexible on the amp, because there are alot great options, but you're not going to find a DAC anywhere near the performance of the Modi MB under $1K besides the Bifrost MB, so I would not skimp on that and budget accordingly.  Besides the HD800 it's the best purchase I've made in this hobby.  The cost to performance ratio of that DAC cannot be overstated.  
  
 It depends on how much you're willing to spend in one go.  As others have said the O2 amp is not a good match for the HD800, so it's probably better to get a proper amp first.  Lyr/ModiMB/decent tubes is _probably_ going to be the best combo you can get for the money and will put you in audio bliss for a very long time... I honestly would forget the WA7 as it seems over your budget and an impulse buy, which are usually not smart.  I would be smart about this... the Schiit gear is a no brainer, at least IMO.


----------



## analog'd

analog'd said:


> phillay said:
> 
> 
> > @analog'd I'm in Alberta, Canada. I ended up picking them up today, I couldn't wait. I tried them out on his set up and they sounded like god was whispering into my ears sweet melodies of lucky charms and rainbows. Okay I over-exaggerated haha but they did sound REALLY good.
> ...


 
 the least expensive way to send the senn box is us postal service priority mail international, and even that will cost 67 bucks (us dollars)(that's close to accurate as we found a postal code in the alberta area and used it, so could be a buck off or something). your call. i would skip it for that much money. but i'm happy to send it.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

coltmrfire said:


> But the ModiMB should be a significant upgrade no matter what the amp. The HD800 is sensitive to any change in your gear and it loves the resolution, smoothness and huge soundstage of the Mimby.


 
 counterpoint: although I heard a distinct naturalness when I upgraded boober to bimby, i recently a/b'd MJ2 and Vali 1, and found the difference quite, quite narrow. I had underestimated Vali 1.


----------



## Fearless1

bosiemoncrieff said:


> counterpoint: although I heard a distinct naturalness when I upgraded boober to bimby, i recently a/b'd MJ2 and Vali 1, and found the difference quite, quite narrow. I had underestimated Vali 1.




The Vali 1 has really good syenergy with the 800 and the 701s for some strange reason (warmer maybe) I forgot I even had one, found it in a box of cables and was pleasantly surprised at how much better it sounds with the 800 then the 2.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I used to have the Vali 1 with a different pair of HPs.  It sounded nice but instrument timbre seemed a bit one-note, compared to other amps.  But I have not heard it with the HD800.


----------



## benzs129

I was planning to get aune x7s amp for 800s. I got schiit modi dac. Is this a good enough combo?


----------



## Petyot

davida said:


> I would get the Lyr2 first since it would make the biggest change over the O2 (which is really not a good pairing with the HD800).




@Phillay : there is a Lyr2 for sale on Canuckaudio (I am not the seller). There is also a Jotunheim for sale.


----------



## DavidA

phillay said:


> Thanks for that info. I was thinking about adding in the PYST cables from Schiits website as well. Thanks for the tips on the ebay tubes too!
> 
> There is a local store here that sells the Woo Audio WA7 Firefly here (although for much more, but I guess pretty close in price if you add the modi multi and lyr2 together), do you have any experience or thoughts on having those to pair with the cans that I have right now (especially the 800)?


 
 I had the original WA7d, it was one of the most beautiful desk amps/DAC, unfortunately the sound didn't match the looks, the original DAC section was not the best so I sold it, its place was taken by a BH Crack with a few upgrades (SB, caps and tubes) and UD-301.  If you are looking for a all in-one solution the Hugo is about as good as it gets IMO, as a bonus it works well with planar headphones also like my HE560.


----------



## analog'd

dang. i'm starting to get annoyed with my senn hd800 (SDR mod). the hd800 is ruining me for other affordable cans. i keep trying others to have something just fun for rockin' out, but i'm dissatisfied with the level of refinement in everything i try. i enjoy the fostex th900, but find myself desiring "more" from it in moments. ditto the ps1000e and the elear (although i like em a lot). i have an he560 coming tomorrow and i'm expecting to find the same thing. what this could mean is, unless and until i can afford a Focal Utopia or the latest and greatest from hifiman or some such, i am ***** out of luck. wonder if an lcd-x would be any better? the lcd-3 and he6 weigh too much for me. sigh.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

analog'd said:


> dang. i'm starting to get annoyed with my senn hd800 (SDR mod). the hd800 is ruining me for other affordable cans. i keep trying others to have something just fun for rockin' out, but i'm dissatisfied with the level of refinement in everything i try. i enjoy the fostex th900, but find myself desiring "more" from it in moments. ditto the ps1000e and the elear (although i like em a lot). i have an he560 coming tomorrow and i'm expecting to find the same thing. what this could mean is, unless and until i can afford a Focal Utopia or the latest and greatest from hifiman or some such, i am ***** out of luck. wonder if an lcd-x would be any better? the lcd-3 and he6 weigh too much for me. sigh.


 

 HD600 is fine for more "relaxing" sessions, but I find myself wanting more sound quality, hence my question a page or two back about HE1k or baby orpheus. My inclination is HE1K (though I refuse to spend more than 3 digits on any future HFM product, because I do not respect the direction in which Fang is taking his once-great company) to save on amp, but Utopia could also work very well.
  
 K1K continues to startle me in terms of performance, though it can't do heavy orchestral stuff or any non-classical music whatsoever (perhaps very light jazz). LCD-X will leave you dissatisfied, not least because it weighs MORE than HE-6 or LCD-3. Wait for My.Sphere this summer. SR-009 would be the natural recommendation in terms of SQ, but with a decent amp instantly blows past Utopia in price.


----------



## Rockin_Zombie

analog'd said:


> dang. i'm starting to get annoyed with my senn hd800 (SDR mod). the hd800 is ruining me for other affordable cans. i keep trying others to have something just fun for rockin' out, but i'm dissatisfied with the level of refinement in everything i try. i enjoy the fostex th900, but find myself desiring "more" from it in moments. ditto the ps1000e and the elear (although i like em a lot). i have an he560 coming tomorrow and i'm expecting to find the same thing. what this could mean is, unless and until i can afford a Focal Utopia or the latest and greatest from hifiman or some such, i am ***** out of luck. wonder if an lcd-x would be any better? the lcd-3 and he6 weigh too much for me. sigh.




I have the same problem. Gonna go through my third mid fi pair at work in a month, dt1770, hd650, th x00 incoming. I don't wanna be that guy who has the same pair of headphones at home and work, but so far I just wanna come back home and listen to my hd800s setup


----------



## analog'd

rockin_zombie said:


> analog'd said:
> 
> 
> > dang. i'm starting to get annoyed with my senn hd800 (SDR mod). the hd800 is ruining me for other affordable cans. i keep trying others to have something just fun for rockin' out, but i'm dissatisfied with the level of refinement in everything i try. i enjoy the fostex th900, but find myself desiring "more" from it in moments. ditto the ps1000e and the elear (although i like em a lot). i have an he560 coming tomorrow and i'm expecting to find the same thing. what this could mean is, unless and until i can afford a Focal Utopia or the latest and greatest from hifiman or some such, i am ***** out of luck. wonder if an lcd-x would be any better? the lcd-3 and he6 weigh too much for me. sigh.
> ...


 
 well, i just got back under the Elear and it is the closest to what i'm hunting for so far. i had listed em for sale a few hours ago but withdrew them. they certainly blow past the hd600/hd650's in a lot of ways, and they don't bore me to tears as my lcd-3 did. if you get a chance to hear em it may be worthwhile for you.


----------



## analog'd

bosiemoncrieff said:


> analog'd said:
> 
> 
> > dang. i'm starting to get annoyed with my senn hd800 (SDR mod). the hd800 is ruining me for other affordable cans. i keep trying others to have something just fun for rockin' out, but i'm dissatisfied with the level of refinement in everything i try. i enjoy the fostex th900, but find myself desiring "more" from it in moments. ditto the ps1000e and the elear (although i like em a lot). i have an he560 coming tomorrow and i'm expecting to find the same thing. what this could mean is, unless and until i can afford a Focal Utopia or the latest and greatest from hifiman or some such, i am ***** out of luck. wonder if an lcd-x would be any better? the lcd-3 and he6 weigh too much for me. sigh.
> ...


 
 yeah, but as far as my "problem" goes, the things you are considering are out of my price range. when i managed to get a used lcd-3 i was thinking that was all i needed in addition to the hd800, but it never stopped boring me. the elear may be the best i can afford to do for a can to have for the stuff the hd800's don't voice to my liking.i had the k1000 for years. dug em but found em too limiting in terms of rock or most jazz. i actually loved the grado ps1 but it's weight finally was too much for me. the ps1000e does not live up to the ps1, so grado is out for me now.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

HE-6 with a good speaker amp (grill-less, vegan pads, blutack) and a better third party headband is the best I can think of. Other than that, on the warm side of the ledger, what is there? SR-007? HE-1000 isn't as fun as HE-6 but is easier to drive and warmer than HD800.


----------



## Phillay

analog'd said:


> the least expensive way to send the senn box is us postal service priority mail international, and even that will cost 67 bucks (us dollars)(that's close to accurate as we found a postal code in the alberta area and used it, so could be a buck off or something). your call. i would skip it for that much money. but i'm happy to send it.


 
 Wow I really appreciate that. Who would've thought it would be so expensive to ship an empty box lol! It's alright then, I really appreciate you looking into that for me anyways. If I do change my mind then I will be sure to let you know!


----------



## Phillay

petyot said:


> @Phillay : there is a Lyr2 for sale on Canuckaudio (I am not the seller). There is also a Jotunheim for sale.


 
 Thanks, I just checked and for the price the seller is asking, I could pretty much buy it brand new right from Schiit and not have to worry if I get any issues. With the exchange rate, its a savings of $13.00 over buying brand new from Schiit. I really appreciate you letting me know about that though! If the seller was asking less then I would jump on that in a second.


----------



## Phillay

coltmrfire said:


> Never heard the WA7.  But I would not forget the Modi MB, it's going to make all the difference with a proper amp and the HD800.  You are more flexible on the amp, because there are alot great options, but you're not going to find a DAC anywhere near the performance of the Modi MB under $1K besides the Bifrost MB, so I would not skimp on that and budget accordingly.  Besides the HD800 it's the best purchase I've made in this hobby.  The cost to performance ratio of that DAC cannot be overstated.
> 
> It depends on how much you're willing to spend in one go.  As others have said the O2 amp is not a good match for the HD800, so it's probably better to get a proper amp first.  Lyr/ModiMB/decent tubes is _probably_ going to be the best combo you can get for the money and will put you in audio bliss for a very long time... I honestly would forget the WA7 as it seems over your budget and an impulse buy, which are usually not smart.  I would be smart about this... the Schiit gear is a no brainer, at least IMO.


 
 Thanks @ColtMrFire. I really appreciate all the input and insights on all this! It sounds like that's the plan then! I'll be ordering the Lyr 2 and then the Multi 2 a few weeks later! Can't wait!


----------



## Phillay

davida said:


> I had the original WA7d, it was one of the most beautiful desk amps/DAC, unfortunately the sound didn't match the looks, the original DAC section was not the best so I sold it, its place was taken by a BH Crack with a few upgrades (SB, caps and tubes) and UD-301.  If you are looking for a all in-one solution the Hugo is about as good as it gets IMO, as a bonus it works well with planar headphones also like my HE560.


 
 Thansk @DavidA. The Chord Hugo is a bit out of my budget although I was considering the Chord Mojo though. Have you used that with your HD 800's?


----------



## johnjen

phillay said:


> Wow I really appreciate that. Who would've thought it would be so expensive to ship an empty box lol! It's alright then, I really appreciate you looking into that for me anyways. If I do change my mind then I will be sure to let you know!


 
 If it doesn't HAVE to be a Sennheiser box, you could opt for a pelican case, or a less expensive knock off.
  
 ≈ $2-30 for a box with REAL protection.
  
 Just a thought.
  
 JJ


----------



## DavidA

phillay said:


> Thansk @DavidA. The Chord Hugo is a bit out of my budget although I was considering the Chord Mojo though. Have you used that with your HD 800's?


 
 The few times I tried the Mojo it wasn't like the Hugo with the HD800 or HE560 even if the specs are the same or very similar between them and the owners of the Mojo and Hugo also scratched their heads on this one.  Maybe someone with more working knowledge of the Mojo and Hugo can enlighten me.  If using the Mojo as your DAC then its really good IMO, I would take it over the Mimby but mostly because I could use it as a portable DAC/amp if needed.


----------



## Petyot

phillay said:


> Thanks, I just checked and for the price the seller is asking, I could pretty much buy it brand new right from Schiit and not have to worry if I get any issues. With the exchange rate, its a savings of $13.00 over buying brand new from Schiit. I really appreciate you letting me know about that though! If the seller was asking less then I would jump on that in a second.




Write to the guy, the price could be negociable... and don't forget to add shipping and customs to the price from Schiit... at the end the saving is more like 150$.


----------



## ColtMrFire

phillay said:


> Thanks @ColtMrFire
> . I really appreciate all the input and insights on all this! It sounds like that's the plan then! I'll be ordering the Lyr 2 and then the Multi 2 a few weeks later! Can't wait!




Nice. I think you will be very satisfied. But I have to warn you, the stock tubes are garbage and need to be replaced, I would suggest reading the "Lyr tube rollers" thread, lots of great info there on affordable quality tubes and feel free to ask questions, they are nice people. You should be able to get a very nice pair of tubes for under $100 easily. Like I said beware of ebay and ask if they tested for noise before buying there. I've had great experiences with upscaleaudio.com as well.


----------



## FLTWS

coltmrfire said:


> Nice. I think you will be very satisfied. But I have to warn you, the stock tubes are garbage and need to be replaced, I would suggest reading the "Lyr tube rollers" thread, lots of great info there on affordable quality tubes and feel free to ask questions, they are nice people. You should be able to get a very nice pair of tubes for under $100 easily. Like I said beware of ebay and ask if they tested for noise before buying there. I've had great experiences with upscaleaudio.com as well.


 
  
 I second that recommendation for Upscale.Audio.


----------



## Vicks7

Any suggestions for the best place to purchase a new pair of HD800s?


----------



## MattTCG

vicks7 said:


> Any suggestions for the best place to purchase a new pair of HD800s?


 
  
 Amazon has them for $990
  
 https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=hd800


----------



## Yamaoka86

Hello guys,
  
 had anyone tried the HD800(sdr) with RME adi-pro 2 as headphone amp and DAC ?


----------



## chimney189

I'm still conflicted over wanting to by a used Burson Soloist SL to replace my iFi Mirco iCAN SE amplifier.  My gut says that the difference would be minimal at best, yet my 'buy, buy, buy' audiophile mentality says otherwise.
  
 I also just received a pair yesterday and within a few minutes applied the SDR mod.  Simply put, amazing.


----------



## eeagle

matttcg said:


> Amazon has them for $990
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=hd800


 
 That is the HD800 price not the "S"


----------



## Tails

Has anyone tried listening the HD800 while eating?
 Does it have noticeable effect of amplifying low frequencies of chewing noise, like many other open headphones?
 Just in case: I understand that this effect is far less than for closed headphones.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Obviously depends on how loud the music is. Of course quieter music is going to allow outside sounds to be heard more.


----------



## Tails

Of course I understand this. The question was deeper.
 Regardless of a music's loudness, there is still a big variation may exist among different headphones in how it deals with chewing noise.
 At second, I have to say, my question was not about "outside sounds" but rather about inside sounds. It comes from inside of my head (mouth), going through my skull and then hitting an inner side of a headphone cup. Then it reflects back from an inner side of a headphone cup to my skull, and so on... This is why "more open" headphones produce less amplification of this low-frequency mechanic noise - big part of it just comes out from the holes in the cup, so lesser part would be reflected forth and back inside the cup. Also it may depend on material used.
 I hope I managed to make my question more clear.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I think you're worried about nothing to be honest.  If the music is quiet you will probably hear yourself chewing.  If you're worried about that, avoid eating while listening to music.  Or eat when only listening loud.


----------



## MWSVette

I have a bigger problem with hearing other people chewing.  Please people chew with your mouth closed...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I have problems with K3003i when chewing. Also K1000, but only because the temple pads sit right where some muscle on my temples has to clench and release and after 15 minutes hurts a lot.


----------



## Tails

ColtMrFire, I would not ask if it would not be important for me. I listen to music only while eating, and I do not love listening too loud. So, if it's "about nothing" for you, does not mean it's "about nothing" for me. I have a two pairs of open headphones and noticed a big difference between ad900x and mdr ma900 when chewing. Thus, I would love to know if hd800 feels more like ad900x or more like mdr ma900 on this field.


----------



## Fearless1

How could anyone possibly answer that? We all have different sized heads, jaws, cheeks and other various facial parts that are active in the motion of chewing.


----------



## Tails

Fearless1, I don't ask you to answer exactly how it would feel on me. But if a few people would asnwer the question "did you notice low-frequency chewing noise amplification on low loud levels?", I would able to make a good prognosis for myself.


----------



## MWSVette

tails said:


> Fearless1, I don't ask you to answer exactly how it would feel on me. But if a few people would asnwer the question "did you notice low-frequency chewing noise amplification on low loud levels?", I would able to make a good prognosis for myself.


 

 No, I have never heard myself chewing with the HD800 or any of other 15 or sets of headphones I own.
  
 YMMV


----------



## ColtMrFire

I thought I'd heard it all...


----------



## Tails

mwsvette said:


> No, I have never heard myself chewing with the HD800 or any of other 15 or sets of headphones I own.
> 
> YMMV


 
 I can not imagine how can you not hear yourself chewing with your closed-back headphones (e.g. Sennheiser HD 8 DJ), but thanks anyway.


----------



## Tails

coltmrfire said:


> I thought I'd heard it all...


 
 I am not sure if I understood you correctly - I would like if you would add a little more words to your answer.


----------



## MWSVette

tails said:


> I can not imagine how can you not hear yourself chewing with your closed-back headphones (e.g. Sennheiser HD 8 DJ), but thanks anyway.


 
  
 Sorry that you cannot imagine it because it is true.
  
 I am not sure you are going to get the answer you are looking for.  It may be best for you to try the HD800 yourself to determine if it is acceptable to you with your eating and listening habits.
  
 Good luck...


----------



## Rockin_Zombie

Well if you grind your teeth you are obviously gonna hear it, the teeth are INSIDE your mouth, connected to your body. No headphone can help there. 

 Just curious, why is this so critical? How long do you eat for while listening to music critically? Do you chew gums all the time?


----------



## ColtMrFire




----------



## Tails

rockin_zombie said:


> Well if you grind your teeth you are obviously gonna hear it, the teeth are INSIDE your mouth, connected to your body. No headphone can help there.







I have the Sony MDR MA900 (very open design, it have the holes in the pads) - and it virtually does not amplify this noise, so I hear it not louder than without headphones, and that is what I consider a good result for headphones.


Quote:



rockin_zombie said:


> Just curious, why is this so critical? How long do you eat for while listening to music critically? Do you chew gums all the time?





No, I do not chew a gum at all. It is "so critical" because I already have the headphones that feels very well for meal-time (MA900) and I afraid I would dissapointed if such expensive headphones like the HD800 would perform noticeably worse on this field, regarding the fact that I am listen to music only while eating. No, I do not have very long meals, but I listen the music during a day almost no longer than I am eating (though I listen the music every day). I have chosen such a regimen for time efficiency purpose.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

"Like" this post if you preferred the Sonarworks digression to the chewing digression.


----------



## jibzilla

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Gonna ask thread in general: baby Orpheus, or he1k?


 
  
 sr-007mk1


----------



## Phillay

Has anyone ever heard of pairing the Audio GD NFB-11 with the HD 800? I was just about to pull the trigger on the Lyr 2 but someone recommended the Audio GD and I haven't heard much about it.


----------



## Moochibond

I paired the NFB 11 with HiFiman HE 500, a darker headphone relative to the HD 800. It made the HE 500 sound (to my ear) shrill. 
  
 Also thought the NFB 11 (paired with HE 500) sounded artificial.
  
 M
  
 P.S. I know others that have enjoyed the HE 500 / NFB 11 pairing


----------



## Phillay

moochibond said:


> I paired the NFB 11 with HiFiman HE 500, a darker headphone relative to the HD 800. It made the HE 500 sound (to my ear) shrill.
> 
> Also thought the NFB 11 (paired with HE 500) sounded artificial.
> 
> ...


 
 Have you heard anything regarding pairing the Dark Voice 336 SE with the HD 800?


----------



## Moochibond

phillay said:


> Have you heard anything regarding pairing the Dark Voice 336 SE with the HD 800?




Nope


----------



## chimney189

phillay said:


> Has anyone ever heard of pairing the Audio GD NFB-11 with the HD 800? I was just about to pull the trigger on the Lyr 2 but someone recommended the Audio GD and I haven't heard much about it.


 

 I've been interested in getting some view points on this.  What interests me most is that the NFB-11 is an AMP/DAC combo.  This seems like an efficient way to save money as well as space.  According to Zeos' review of the NFB-11, the AMP section is phenomenal.  However, I don't see myself needing so many options such as variable, standard, etc.
  
 Can anyone say what their experience with the NFB-11 was and/or is?


----------



## jsgraha

I used to have audio-gd nfb12 (supposed to be slightly warmer version to nfb11), and there are other products better it in similar price range for hd800.
Schiit Vali better it for amp only (combine with modi multibit maybe, for dac/amp).
Or for single dac/amp, geek out v2a or v2+ better it as well


----------



## chimney189

jsgraha said:


> I used to have audio-gd nfb12 (supposed to be slightly warmer version to nfb11), and there are other products better it in similar price range for hd800.
> Schiit Vali better it for amp only (combine with modi multibit maybe, for dac/amp).
> Or for single dac/amp, geek out v2a or v2+ better it as well


 

 What makes you say that the geek out is better?  Better sound quality?  I'm reading that the build quality is nothing to write about, yet there is more power in this little device than larger desktop amplifiers.


----------



## jsgraha

Yes, better sound quality. 
Lower end audio-gd, like nfb12 or 11, should be avoided with hd800.


----------



## Hopup

What would be good amplifier around 1500-2500euros price? Questyle CMA800R seems like very nice amp.


----------



## JaZZ

hopup said:


> *What would be good amplifier around 1500-2500euros price?* Questyle CMA800R seems like very nice amp.


 
  
 The upcoming *Chord Hugo²*. Only few have heard it at shows, but they are full of praise. According to them it's better than the Hugo¹ in every respect, particularly fuller and smoother, which may suit the HD 800, especially for those who renounce damping modifications and equalizing for one or the other reason. Apart from that I would also have recommended the original Hugo as ideal partner from my experience – which includes mods and EQ, though.
  
 That said, this recommendation is primarily for those who appreciate ultimate transparency and accuracy instead of artificial warmth and «authority» (like e.g. from vintage power amps).


----------



## JamieMcC

hopup said:


> What would be good amplifier around 1500-2500euros price? Questyle CMA800R seems like very nice amp.


 
  
 Don't settle for good! For $1200 and if your into diy a Bottlehead Mainline is a fantastic amp for pairing with the HD800.
  
 http://bottlehead.com/?product=mainline-headphone-amplifier-kit


----------



## eeagle

@Hopup I find Sennheiser's own HDVD800 in balanced mode is a great match for the HD800.


----------



## Hopup

I have used Xonar Essence Muses Edition for the 800 mainly. I like it very much and it is most certainly good pairing, but I want to try something more expensive and hopefully more refined sound. I would rather take something else than Sennheisers amplifier. Chord hugo 2 seems really interesting.


----------



## eeagle

Innerfidelity reviewer Dinny FitzPatrick really liked the Asus Xonar Essence Muses with the HD800
  
Link
  
 Good luck on the quest.


----------



## jibzilla

jamiemcc said:


> Don't settle for good! For $1200 and if your into diy a Bottlehead Mainline is a fantastic amp for pairing with the HD800.
> 
> http://bottlehead.com/?product=mainline-headphone-amplifier-kit


 
  
 yep


----------



## Sennophile

I agree although many would argue it's a matter of individual taste.
 I have a 'feeling' that the HDVD (+ balanced cable) matches better the HD800 than the new HD800.


----------



## chimney189

Can anyone recommend a DAC that is $200 or below that I can pair with an incoming Burson Soloist SL?
 I right away thought about the JDS ODAC, but I can't think of anything else.
  
*EDIT:  I was banking on selling my AKG K712's at this time -- so who knows, if that goes through then the budget can jump up to $400.  If you can list an option for both price points then that will be greatly appreciated!*


----------



## MattTCG

chimney189 said:


> Can anyone recommend a DAC that $200 or below that I can pair with an incoming Burson Soloist SL?
> I right away thought about the JDS ODAC, but I can't think of anything else.


 
  
 There is no way that I wouldn't buy the Modi MB in this price range, although it's $50 over your budget.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Modi MB is a no brainer.  Spring for the extra $50 and thank us later.


----------



## chimney189

What is the difference between a regular modi and a modi mb?  Sonically, that is.


----------



## MattTCG

chimney189 said:


> What is the difference between a regular modi and a modi mb?  Sonically, that is.


 
  
 The mulibit version is designed to have a more analogue sound and eliminate the "digital issues" that most dacs struggle with. The Modi MB is one of the very best dac's that you can get anywhere near it's price often competing with much more expensive products. Here is the answer direct from Schiit:
  
*How about the Modi Multibit?
 Modi Multibit has exactly the same inputs, finish, and controls as Modi 2 Uber (and also a large, stylized “M” screened on the top that looks kinda like a space invader—and helps designate it as a Modi Multibit.) But it’s profoundly different from the Modi 2 Uber inside:*

*Architecture: Instead of a conventional delta-sigma architecture, the Modi Multibit uses our own, entirely new multibit architecture.*
*Digital Filter: Instead of using the digital filter embedded in the AK4490 DAC, the Modi Multibit features our own unique closed-form digital filter implemented on an Analog Devices SHARC DSP—the same filter used in the Bifrost Multibit.*
*D/A Converter: Again, instead of using a delta-sigma audio DAC, the Modi Multibit uses an Analog Devices AD5547 medical/military-grade D/A converter—the same D/A converter used in the Bifrost Multibit.*


----------



## chimney189

matttcg said:


> The mulibit version is designed to have a more analogue sound and eliminate the "digital issues" that most dacs struggle with. The Modi MB is one of the very best dac's that you can get anywhere near it's price often competing with much more expensive products. Here is the answer direct from Schiit:
> 
> *How about the Modi Multibit?
> Modi Multibit has exactly the same inputs, finish, and controls as Modi 2 Uber (and also a large, stylized “M” screened on the top that looks kinda like a space invader—and helps designate it as a Modi Multibit.) But it’s profoundly different from the Modi 2 Uber inside:*
> ...


 

 Very interesting.  It's hard not to like something that is labeled as "medical/military-grade" .. sounds neat.
 I'm going to go ahead and ask if I can connect this to my laptop?  *Essentially it would have to be Computer ------> Modi MB ------> Burson Soloist SL -----> Headphones*
  
*EDIT:  I'm also assuming that I'll need to buy PYST cables in order to connect the Modi to the Burson?*
*EDIT #2:  I'm also assuming that I'll need to buy their USB cable in order to connect the Modi to my computer?*


----------



## MattTCG

chimney189 said:


> Very interesting.  It's hard not to like something that is labeled as "medical/military-grade" .. sounds neat.
> I'm going to go ahead and ask if I can connect this to my laptop?  *Essentially it would have to be Computer ------> Modi MB ------> Burson Soloist SL -----> Headphones*
> 
> *EDIT:  I'm also assuming that I'll need to buy PYST cables in order to connect the Modi to the Burson?*
> *EDIT #2:  I'm also assuming that I'll need to buy their USB cable in order to connect the Modi to my computer?*


 
  
 Any RCA interconnect cables of decent quality will work just fine. No PYST is required but they are decent quality and price. Any decent usb cable will work fine.


----------



## thecrow

chimney189 said:


> Can anyone recommend a DAC that is $200 or below that I can pair with an incoming Burson Soloist SL?
> I right away thought about the JDS ODAC, but I can't think of anything else.
> 
> *EDIT:  I was banking on selling my AKG K712's at this time -- so who knows, if that goes through then the budget can jump up to $400.  If you can list an option for both price points then that will be greatly appreciated!*


 

 Something you may find cheap around the place is a 2nd hard arcam irdac.
  
 i had this about 18 months ago
  
 i had it with a soloist (not the sl but the more powerful one) and they had exceptional synergy, for the hd800, planars and even an akg q/k701 that someone brought to a meet
  
 the arcam has nice rich mids and is a little rolled off in the highs.
 gives the soloist and hd800 nice bit of weight in the mids and keeps highs at bay
 and the tight puncht bottom end of the soloist came through nice on the hd800
  
 it isn't as open in sound as more expensive dacs but for the price it's great - what hifi had a very favourable review a few years ago when first released
  
 ps i have never heard the modi. i had upgraded from the o2 and odac in those days and it was a great big jump in sound


----------



## ColtMrFire

chimney189 said:


> Very interesting.  It's hard not to like something that is labeled as "medical/military-grade" .. sounds neat.
> I'm going to go ahead and ask if I can connect this to my laptop?  *Essentially it would have to be Computer ------> Modi MB ------> Burson Soloist SL -----> Headphones*
> 
> *EDIT:  I'm also assuming that I'll need to buy PYST cables in order to connect the Modi to the Burson?*
> *EDIT #2:  I'm also assuming that I'll need to buy their USB cable in order to connect the Modi to my computer?*


 
  
 With a HP as resolving and revealing as the HD800, everything in the signal chain is going to take on greater importance than usual.  I say this having experienced first hand the HD800's response to even the slightest tweak in the singal chain.
  
 That said, you do not need to be sucked in by snake oil tactics meant to drain your wallet.  There are many great and low priced alternatives to stock cables.  The PYST cables are good, but my system took a huge leap forward with just a $50 pair of Morrow MA1 RCA cables, which pretty much blew everything I've ever tried out of the water, including more expensive cables.  Back when I was using computer audio, I purchased a LH Labs 1G usb cable which retailed for almost $200 for $70 from someone on the forums.  This blew away the stock usb cable I'd been using.  It was only SLIGHTLY better than the PYST usb cable, but to me the difference was worth the price.  The point is, there are stunning deals to be had with a little research and your HD800 will thank you for any upgrade in the chain.  
  
 It also needs to be said that the Modi MB is an amazing DAC, and easily competes with multi thousand dollar DACs including Schiit's statement DAC the Yggdrasil (Yggy).  I have personally compared them both and Modi MB came away holding its own... I'd call it the Yggy's little brother since they are very very close in tonality.  Yggy just had a little extra of everything that made the extra cost worth it.  But I would challenge anyone to tell the difference between those DACs in a blind test... the real differences only become apparent after extended listening, at least for me, as initially I did not find alot of difference between them... it is all in the subtleties, but those subtle changes make all the difference for music.  If I had the money right now I would not hesitate to get a Yggy, but if I could only have Modi MB for the rest of my life, I would not be upset.


----------



## chimney189

According to a comparison between the uber and multibit there seems to be a perceived 'fatness' in sound with the multibit.  Warmer, richer, fuller, more bodied, etc.  However, I am definitely looking to retain the characteristics of the HD800 without warming the sound.  I want it to be as neutral as possible -- although the perceived 'fatness' may contribute to neutrality, although I feel otherwise.  This is why I purchased the Burson Soloist SL -- no coloration. 
  
 Basically, something that has the least amount of coloration is what I'm looking for.  I want to hear the headphone, not the gear.  This is why I considered the ODAC, but I wonder if the uber does the same thing.  (both are at the same price point)


----------



## ColtMrFire

chimney189 said:


>


 
  
 The Modi MB is pretty darn neutral to my ears.


----------



## ColtMrFire

redacted


----------



## chimney189

Alright, thanks for the help.  Much appreciated.
  
 Before I make a purchase I have one more question:  is there a difference between have a DAC that uses a wall wart + usb cable in order to be connected to the computer, compared to having a dac that only connects to a computer with a usb (minus the wall wart)?


----------



## Rockin_Zombie

chimney189 said:


> Alright, thanks for the help.  Much appreciated.
> 
> Before I make a purchase I have one more question:  is there a difference between have a DAC that uses a wall wart + usb cable in order to be connected to the computer, compared to having a dac that only connects to a computer with a usb (minus the wall wart)?



If you'll use it on a desktop, it's safer to go with one that uses external power source. USB power may not be enough and you may get random disconnects, especially if it's a laptop. 

That being said, for a well implemented DAC, it doesnt matter. So it shouldn't be your deciding factor. Id highly recommend powering your DAC through a powered USB hub though, those can be has for around 30 bucks.


----------



## jibzilla

chimney189 said:


> Can anyone recommend a DAC that is $200 or below that I can pair with an incoming Burson Soloist SL?
> I right away thought about the JDS ODAC, but I can't think of anything else.
> 
> *EDIT:  I was banking on selling my AKG K712's at this time -- so who knows, if that goes through then the budget can jump up to $400.  If you can list an option for both price points then that will be greatly appreciated!*


 
  
 Keces da-151mk2


----------



## DavidA

chimney189 said:


> According to a comparison between the uber and multibit there seems to be a perceived 'fatness' in sound with the multibit.  Warmer, richer, fuller, more bodied, etc.  However, I am definitely looking to retain the characteristics of the HD800 without warming the sound.  I want it to be as neutral as possible -- although the perceived 'fatness' may contribute to neutrality, although I feel otherwise.  This is why I purchased the Burson Soloist SL -- no coloration.
> 
> Basically, something that has the least amount of coloration is what I'm looking for.  I want to hear the headphone, not the gear.  This is why I considered the ODAC, but I wonder if the uber does the same thing.  (both are at the same price point)


 
 somethings to consider:

 If you want no coloration why have the SDR mod?
  
 Your reasoning of the multibit being warmer is also a contradiction, to some the Mimby is the neutral and the uber the leaner cleaner sounding


----------



## chimney189

davida said:


> somethings to consider:
> 
> If you want no coloration why have the SDR mod?
> 
> Your reasoning of the multibit being warmer is also a contradiction, to some the Mimby is the neutral and the uber the leaner cleaner sounding


 
 I have the SDR in order to tame the treble peak. 
  
 I'm also going off of someone else's comparison rather than my own because I have not owned a Schiit product.


----------



## DavidA

chimney189 said:


> I have the SDR in order to tame the treble peak.
> 
> I'm also going off of someone else's comparison rather than my own because I have not owned a Schiit product.


 
 I consider the use of the SDR mod to tame the treble peak coloration, and its making the HD800 warmer like the 800S, something you didn't want to do.  Also, if you are using the SDR to "tame" the treble peak the difference between the Mimby and Uber will be way less/insignificant compared to the effect of the SDR mod.  I can understand trying to get "neutral" but what if the "neutral" sounds terrible to you?  I would think one would  try to find something that sounds good versus an arbitrary notion of "neutral".
  
 I'm not trying to tell you one way or the other but to hopefully give you a little to think about what you are trying to achieve, I might be way off but most people I know want to find something that sounds good to them regardless of coloration.  Another option would be to use Sonarworks to get a flat FR which I feel is easier and cheaper than going with various DACs and amps unless you are not using a computer as a source.


----------



## ColtMrFire

If you use the Modi MB (Mimby) with the Soloist you may not even need the SDR mod. The Mimby is a very smooth analog DAC (characteristic of the R2R/multibit sound). If you have a smooth non bright amp with it, it may be fine. I use the Mimby with the Lyr and have no problems with the treble peak. It is extremely smooth and euphonic.

If I were you I would spring the extra $50 for the Mimby and forget the Modi uber (nice DAC but not in the same league as Mimby). Try the pairing with stock HD800 and see how it sounds. If you then feel you need to add the SDR then do that. But the Mimby is going to get you practically end game performance no matter what. (Be sure to let it break in for a couple days and never turn it off, the schiit multibit DACs sound best left on)


----------



## bigfatpaulie

davida said:


> I consider the use of the SDR mod to tame the treble peak coloration, and its making the HD800 warmer like the 800S, something you didn't want to do.  Also, if you are using the SDR to "tame" the treble peak the difference between the Mimby and Uber will be way less/insignificant compared to the effect of the SDR mod.  I can understand trying to get "neutral" but what if the "neutral" sounds terrible to you?  I would think one would  try to find something that sounds good versus an arbitrary notion of "neutral".
> 
> I'm not trying to tell you one way or the other but to hopefully give you a little to think about what you are trying to achieve, I might be way off but most people I know want to find something that sounds good to them regardless of coloration.  Another option would be to use Sonarworks to get a flat FR which I feel is easier and cheaper than going with various DACs and amps unless you are not using a computer as a source.


 
  
  
 Think you are a little mixed up on your terminology.  There is a glossary of terms on Head-Fi and it's worth checking out:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary
  
 "Coloured - Having timbres that are not true to life. Non flat response; peaks or dips."
  
 Meaning that, buy reducing the 6Khz peak you are making the HD800's _less _coloured, not more.  
  
 The HD800S I personally won't not describe as warmer than the 800's.  The have the peak fixed and a bass boost at the cost of resolution.
  
 "Warm - Good bass, adequate low frequencies, adequate fundamentals relative to harmonics. Not thin. Also excessive bass or mid bass. Also, pleasantly spacious, with adequate reverberation at low frequencies. Also see Rich, Round. Warm highs means sweet highs."
  
 The HD800S is still thin with most gear and certainly does not have excessive bass, mid bass or sweet highs.  
  
 Also, your use of the term 'neutral' - what if 'neutral' sounds bad to you...  Well, that's possible.  But if you don't like neutral sound then you are looking for something coloured (neutral would be as 'colour free' as possible) which is totally fine - it is 100% a personal choice thing, there is no right or wrong here.  
  
 You said, "I would think one would try to find something that sounds good versus an arbitrary notion of "neutral"."  
  
 "Neutral" isn't really all that arbitrary, what "sounds good" is totally personal.  Some people love the TH900's and feel they sound excellent - I hate them.  To each their own.
  
  


chimney189 said:


> According to a comparison between the uber and multibit there seems to be a perceived 'fatness' in sound with the multibit.  Warmer, richer, fuller, more bodied, etc.  However, I am definitely looking to retain the characteristics of the HD800 without warming the sound.  I want it to be as neutral as possible -- although the perceived 'fatness' may contribute to neutrality, although I feel otherwise.  This is why I purchased the Burson Soloist SL -- no coloration.
> 
> Basically, something that has the least amount of coloration is what I'm looking for.  I want to hear the headphone, not the gear.  This is why I considered the ODAC, but I wonder if the uber does the same thing.  (both are at the same price point)


 
  
 What I think people are trying to articulate with the multibit is that it is tonally richer and smoother which can make the HD800 a little easier to listen too.  I know your original question was about the multibit vs non but I'm not sure I understand your path...  It sounds like you have HD800's which you are happy with (I love 'em too!!) and a Soloist and you are looking for a DAC.  My question is why?  What is it you aren't getting, or is lacking, with you have?  What are you hoping to  achieve by upgrading?  
  
 I think people here are trying to give you guidance and help but are struggling a bit because we don't really know what you are after.  
  
 Most people with HD800's ask something like, "I need a DAC that makes the HD800's more musical/thick/warm/less harsh/and so on" - they give us direction.  You are contrasting two DAC's asking about their characteristics but are giving us confusing answers.  
  
  
 "I want to hear the headphone, not the gear."  Then sell your HD800's and buy LCD-X's.  Revealing your upstream gear is what the HD800s are all about.
  
  
 Forget about terms for a moment and listen, figure out what you are and aren't liking (this is hard, I still struggle with this sometimes).  Listen to as much other gear as you can and try to find what_ you love_.  Start with the end in mind - what does a perfect setup sound like to you.  Then ask for gear advice.
  
 Anyway, that's just how I see it all...


----------



## chimney189

Hmmmm, so maybe a stand alone DAC is unnecessary..
  
 I'm used to using the DAC in my laptop (*SoundBlaster X-Fi MB5*), but I wonder if buying a stand alone DAC will give me a more clear, refined sound.  I was hoping to reduce clipping, background noise, or any graininess, yet I'm not sure if these things are possible.


----------



## ColtMrFire

chimney189 said:


> Hmmmm, so maybe a stand alone DAC is unnecessary..
> 
> I'm used to using the DAC in my laptop (*SoundBlaster X-Fi MB5*), but I wonder if buying a stand alone DAC will give me a more clear, refined sound.  I was hoping to reduce clipping, background noise, or any graininess, yet I'm not sure if these things are possible.


 
  
 I think you should listen to the advice already given.  A standalone DAC is going to be better than a DAC inside a PC for the HD800.  There's really no point in getting an HD800 if you're unwilling to feed it an adequate signal, because the HP is going to give you what you feed it, far more than any other.  You already have an amazing amp percfect for it, so you may as well get the best DAC you can for the money and an overwhelming number of people say this is the Modi multibit, including me.  
  
 If you are not wanting to get adequate gear, you may as well sell the HD800 and get a HP that is not going to be as dependent on upstream gear.  We're not saying this stuff to be difficult, we're saying it because we've already been in your place and many of us have already trial and error'd this HP and know what the pitfalls are.  I am hoping to save you time and money.  You have a great experience just waiting for you.
  
 At this point it's up to you what you want to spring for.  Let us know.


----------



## chimney189

Thank you to everyone for the advice!  Wow, what a community


----------



## himynameiskiera

Yes it sounds very good. Though my DV has upgraded output caps and potentiometer


----------



## jibzilla

chimney189 said:


> Thank you to everyone for the advice!  Wow, what a community


 
  
 I ran a Pavane (used) and Teton (new/hd800 combo deal). Total $8kish. Still thought it was good for the money and that is compared to many more expensive headphones with around the same $8k spent with dac and amp factored in.
  
 I downgraded but not by allot.


----------



## chimney189

Well, I was somehow able to find a used Burson Audio DA-160 DAC.  I pulled the trigger and got it for just under $250.


----------



## jamesino

I've had the HD800 for about 1-2 months now, only other headphone is the HD 650. Running it out of Modi 1 (will upgrade to Modi MM one day) > BHC Crack + Speedball. 
  
 I didn't really notice the 6 Khz peak until I began to read about it, which prompted me to notice it more. Since then, I've been using Equalizer APO to bring down the peak by about 2 db. 
  
 It sounds better overall, but I still hear some "ringing" around the 6 Khz area. However, I also hear the same ringing, albeit a bit quieter, with the HD 650. If this is the case, is this "ringing" that I am hearing characteristic of the 6 Khz peak/ringing that people are talking about? In other words, if I hear this "ringing" with both the HD 650 and HD 800, does this represent a fault of the headphones, or is it just because the track is poorly recorded/mastered?


----------



## Tails

But HD 650 has not the 6 Khz peak. Compare:
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD650.pdf
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf


----------



## eeagle

@jamesino I was quite worried about the 6K resonance prior to buying the HD800.  So much so that I purchased a SuperDupont Resonator kit with plans to install as soon as I received my HD800.  Upon receipt of the HPs they did not annoy me at all in that frequency range so I have not yet installed the SDR kit.  I like the sound I hear fine without changing the stock configuration.  Some have even postulated that the newer HD800's sound different than the original lower S/Ns.
  
 Reading the threads you will find everyone hears differently and I would venture all actual ear hearing curves are different accounting for that.  Bottom line is the HP has to satisfy your expectations, and a bit of equalization can certainly fix most any problem;
  
 Recordings though can vary widely.  I keep a separate folder for the music I like best and find the audiophile picks  (binaural+, 2xHD)  labeled recordings never disappoint


----------



## sanjeewasam

Please provide you comments on "Most Musical HP (Open) and IEM"
http://www.head-fi.org/t/840625/most-musical-hp-open-and-iem
 Much appreciated


----------



## Sanctuary

eeagle said:


> @jamesino I was quite worried about the 6K resonance prior to buying the HD800.  So much so that I purchased a SuperDupont Resonator kit with plans to install as soon as I received my HD800.  Upon receipt of the HPs they did not annoy me at all in that frequency range so I have not yet installed the SDR kit.  I like the sound I hear fine without changing the stock configuration.  Some have even postulated that the newer HD800's sound different than the original lower S/Ns.
> 
> Reading the threads you will find everyone hears differently and I would venture all actual ear hearing curves are different accounting for that.  Bottom line is the HP has to satisfy your expectations, and a bit of equalization can certainly fix most any problem;
> 
> Recordings though can vary widely.  I keep a separate folder for the music I like best and find the audiophile picks  (binaural+, 2xHD)  labeled recordings never disappoint


 
  
 I've had my eye on the HD800s for a few years now, but finally decided to pull the trigger on them.  I'm going to be getting an A16 Realiser as well, so I decided I may as well just get the headphones they seem to exclusively demo the unit with.  Anyway, I was considering getting the SuperDupont kit too due to all of the complaints about the treble spike, but I think I'll just wait a few weeks first to see how noticeable it is.  I'll actually be using them primarily for movies/games anyway, and the A16 already tries to equalize all headphones to sound somewhat similar, so that alone might remove any harsh sibilance.
  
 That being said, the first pair of "audiophile" headphones I ended up buying years ago were the Ultrasone Pro 900.  Those were easily one of the worst sounding headphones I had ever heard before and since due to their completely recessed mids with an emphasis on bass (albeit stellar bass) and treble.  The treble on those was so sibilant though that after only a few hours my ears hurt _really_ bad.  Kind of like if you've been too aggressive cleaning your ears with a Q-Tip.  That and the price are kind of why I waited so long to get the HD800s, but after the "S" version was released, it was less of an issue. Hopefully they don't have a similar effect with treble though; ugh.  In the meantime, I've just been primarily sticking with some DT880 600 Ohms with some Jmoney pads, and I've seen those to be considered "bright" headphones too, although I honestly can't tell aside from infrequent recordings that didn't have a good production with the drums.  It will be interesting to compare the two.


----------



## Sennheiser

jamesino said:


> I've had the HD800 for about 1-2 months now, only other headphone is the HD 650. Running it out of Modi 1 (will upgrade to Modi MM one day) > BHC Crack + Speedball.
> 
> I didn't really notice the 6 Khz peak until I began to read about it, which prompted me to notice it more. Since then, I've been using Equalizer APO to bring down the peak by about 2 db.
> 
> It sounds better overall, but I still hear some "ringing" around the 6 Khz area. However, I also hear the same ringing, albeit a bit quieter, with the HD 650. If this is the case, is this "ringing" that I am hearing characteristic of the 6 Khz peak/ringing that people are talking about? In other words, if I hear this "ringing" with both the HD 650 and HD 800, does this represent a fault of the headphones, or is it just because the track is poorly recorded/mastered?



jamesino, forgive me for sounding a bit like "tech support," but I have a few questions and possible things for you to try out.

1.) is this ringing present constantly throughout the song? If so, it could possibly some microphonics in your tube, some tubes never seem to settle down.

2.) Do you hear ringing just when certain notes are played? Sometimes output ports are defective, and can introduce unpleasant artifacts. If you can, try using a different port (different USB port, or try connecting to Optical, or coax, whatever you can try) or a different source (computer, smartphone, game console/home theater, a friend's source).

3.) Do you hear this ringing with other tracks? I have an HD800 right here, let me know what track it was that bothered you and I'll share some personal thoughts 

The HD650 an HD800 have fairly different tunings and designs, to hear the same "ringing" in both suggests something else could be going on. In any case, enjoying the headphone and the audio is the end-goal, right? Keep us updated!




sanctuary said:


> I've had my eye on the HD800s for a few years now, but finally decided to pull the trigger on them.  I'm going to be getting an A16 Realiser as well, so I decided I may as well just get the headphones they seem to exclusively demo the unit with.  Anyway, I was considering getting the SuperDupont kit too due to all of the complaints about the treble spike, but I think I'll just wait a few weeks first to see how noticeable it is.  I'll actually be using them primarily for movies/games anyway, and the A16 already tries to equalize all headphones to sound somewhat similar, so that alone might remove any harsh sibilance.
> 
> That being said, the first pair of "audiophile" headphones I ended up buying years ago were the Ultrasone Pro 900.  Those were easily one of the worst sounding headphones I had ever heard before and since due to their completely recessed mids with an emphasis on bass (albeit stellar bass) and treble.  The treble on those was so sibilant though that after only a few hours my ears hurt _really_ bad.  Kind of like if you've been too aggressive cleaning your ears with a Q-Tip.  That and the price are kind of why I waited so long to get the HD800s, but after the "S" version was released, it was less of an issue. Hopefully they don't have a similar effect with treble though; ugh.  In the meantime, I've just been primarily sticking with some DT880 600 Ohms with some Jmoney pads, and I've seen those to be considered "bright" headphones too, although I honestly can't tell aside from infrequent recordings that didn't have a good production with the drums.  It will be interesting to compare the two.



Sanctuary,
Congrats on reaching your goal/prize! I remember when I first got my HD800. It wasn't what I was expecting... it was better! No harm in listening to what the headphone sounds like stock, in case it ends up being lovable as-is. Have you started building an "HD800 first impressions" music playlist yet? What is going to be your first song? 

There are some songs which just sound soooo special, the kind that give good chills down the spine!


----------



## ColtMrFire

sanctuary said:


> I've had my eye on the HD800s for a few years now, but finally decided to pull the trigger on them.  I'm going to be getting an A16 Realiser as well, so I decided I may as well just get the headphones they seem to exclusively demo the unit with.  Anyway, I was considering getting the SuperDupont kit too due to all of the complaints about the treble spike, but I think I'll just wait a few weeks first to see how noticeable it is.  I'll actually be using them primarily for movies/games anyway, and the A16 already tries to equalize all headphones to sound somewhat similar, so that alone might remove any harsh sibilance.
> 
> That being said, the first pair of "audiophile" headphones I ended up buying years ago were the Ultrasone Pro 900.  Those were easily one of the worst sounding headphones I had ever heard before and since due to their completely recessed mids with an emphasis on bass (albeit stellar bass) and treble.  The treble on those was so sibilant though that after only a few hours my ears hurt _really_ bad.  Kind of like if you've been too aggressive cleaning your ears with a Q-Tip.  That and the price are kind of why I waited so long to get the HD800s, but after the "S" version was released, it was less of an issue. Hopefully they don't have a similar effect with treble though; ugh.  In the meantime, I've just been primarily sticking with some DT880 600 Ohms with some Jmoney pads, and I've seen those to be considered "bright" headphones too, although I honestly can't tell aside from infrequent recordings that didn't have a good production with the drums.  It will be interesting to compare the two.




Not everyone is bothered by the 6khz peak. Its on a case by case basis. It also depends greatly on the amp and any power issues. The power in my house is dirty and it would manifest in a tizzy top end. I got a noise reducer and that took care of it. So the peak is not necessarily bad it may just be reproducing something in your chain that's flawed. At least this is what happened in my experience.


----------



## jamesino

@Sennheiser, thanks a lot for reaching out to me!
  
 1) & 2) Nope, the ringing is not throughout the song. It usually occurs during vocals as a singer is holding a long note or belting out a loud note, but I don't think it's a natural vibrato. I want to say that it's usually only certain notes that are affected, but I'm poor at identifying pitch. I'm currently using a USB port on my computer, and the ringing still persists after trying different ports. The ringing is worse when I switch from the BHC Crack + Speedball to the Valhalla 2.
  
 3) I hear the ringing with multiple tracks, but not every track, do you have Spotify? Here are some examples:
  
*Emmylou by First Aid Kit: https://open.spotify.com/track/3UzvFIyu5qdRepwJViDwjN*
 At 2:38 when she holds the long "Hoowww"
  
*Something About the Way You Look Tonight by Elton John: https://open.spotify.com/track/5LjSxAIKwyZvQqJ04ZQ0Da*
 At 0:14 when he holds the word "One." I think this tone is a bit lower than the one above, yet the ringing still happens. 
  
*Closer To Fine by Indigo Girls: https://open.spotify.com/track/7rKyITVLEwldhdXIy7P6Vw*
 0:21 when she holds the word "Me." The ringing is especially prominent here. 
  
 Thanks so much for your help.


----------



## eeagle

sanctuary said:


> I'm going to be getting an A16 Realiser as well, so I decided I may as well just get the headphones they seem to exclusively demo the unit with.
> 
> That being said, the first pair of "audiophile" headphones I ended up buying years ago were the Ultrasone Pro 900.  Those were easily one of the worst sounding headphones I had ever heard before and since due to their completely recessed mids with an emphasis on bass (albeit stellar bass) and treble.


 
  
 I am unfamiliar w/A16 but see from the web it is commonly posed with the HD800; let us know how it works out.  I have used the Creative SoundBlaster E5 which has some nice DSP & virtual surround effects, but find I like it best in direct mode, the effects always seem to add a higher noise floor which I find undesirable.  My daily driver for the HD800 is Sennheiser's own HDVD800 which I use in balanced mode for the sound I like best.
  
 Your Ultrasone Pro 900 experience is an example of how differently we all hear.  Just last week I picked up a pair of Pro 900i (supposed to be exactly like the 900 but with a new headband design) w/Adorama's $199 special.  I am quite impressed with their S-Logic® Plus Technology giving an amazing 360 soundstage from a closed HP.  Yes they are bass heavy but in a very fun way (nothing like the Beats phenomena), easy to drive from a portable device and IMO no noticeable undesirable mid of high end sound.  
  
 I will admit that I also have always enjoyed the Grado sound that many complain about being shrill....guess maybe I'm a closet bass-head.  The Grado GS1000i is right there next to my HD800 in terms of the sound signature I like best.


----------



## Sanctuary

Well, I ordered my pair yesterday morning, and they arrived about two hours ago.  Currently listening to the first Days of the New album (all acoustic).  I've had a Lyr for about a year to power the Alpha Dogs I ended up buying, and it seems to be adequate.  I don't really have anything to compare the Lry to, but at least so far I'm not finding any issues with the way these sound.  They are absolutely "bright" sounding, but they don't sound exaggerated, and _nothing_ like the Ultrasones.  "Clinical" and "Dry" like they've been said to be seems pretty accurate too, and it doesn't bother me.  I actually transitioned from a V shaped, very warm and heavily EQd pair of 280s many years ago to some Phonak 132s, which initially sounded "bad" to me.  But I had just been using some relatively crap (good for the price back then I guess) headphones with an EQ that was all over the place to make music sound good.  On first listen, these remind me quite a bit of the Phonaks.  But better of course.

 Before actually listening to music, I ended up cycling through a few movie scenes using Dolby Headphone.  I had seen certain articles claim that these are so out of your head that they were the closest thing to sounding like actual speakers instead of headphones.  First thing I noticed when watching the movies was how much more they really do sound more like speakers, although I'm not sure if it's just these headphones, or the fact that they are open.  I haven't had a pair of fully open yet, and the closest I've come would be the DT880s, but these are way more open sounding.
  
 edit: Wow.  Revealing is an understatement.  I just listened to this album yesterday with my DT880s, and it's like I'm listening to a better mixed version right now.
  
 edit 2: These really bring out the bass guitar too.  Like by a lot.


----------



## Zoom25

For a year before I had my Amphions, I loved my HD 800. Now I cannot stand the 6k peak at all. I was aware of it before, but I think I had gotten used to it. However, now when I am switching between monitors and headphones daily, it's simply not enough time to get used to it. It's painfully made obvious in stock form. I resorted to using Sonarworks for the past 2+ months. I'm still not fully satisfied. There's something really abnormal about that resonance. I mostly reach for the HD 598 now.
  
 Anyone here compare the SuperDupont with the stock and Sonarworks (either stock or with SuperDupont)?


----------



## Sennheiser

jamesino, Yup! Currently Spotify and Tidal! Regarding your song samples, first I want to thank you for taking the time to identify points in the song where you hear the ringing... and also the fresh tunes for the night! Particularly liked your "Closer to Fine" suggestion!

Second, on my current solid-state setup, I didn't hear ringing in the three sections you meticulously identified. On "Emmylou," I think she's actually saying "I miiiight have lied to you" around 2:38, but her pitch is low enough that I don't expect it is your ears being particularly sensitive to that pitch (General PSA: see an audiologist if you feel like certain pitches cause pain or leave a lasting ringing sound, so you can enjoy music longer!). Don't worry about being able to identify pitch from memory; I had to look it up just now. If you PROMISE to turn down your volume all the way to silent and turn it up till you can hear (the video is quite loud), this is a 6 kHz pitch: [video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nyZhQj0k7-s[/video]

So, I don't think it's an issue with 6kHz or your HD800 headphones, and I recommend an audition with different tubes or another amp. I fixed an issue like that once by switching tubes, and another time by using a different USB. Hopefully that's a bit of relief! If you need some musical relief from hearing a pure tone, your music inspired me and I ended up making a playlist with some songs that don't have issues on my setup, but sound totally awesome: https://open.spotify.com/user/evshrug/playlist/5XNxbPkKVGHN6NDaYNeo0S



-----
eeagleDifferent ears definitely have different sensitivities! Whether by the shape of your outer ear, ear canal, or the hairs in your cochlea, minor differences lead to different experiences and thus personal preferences.

Binaural and HRTF science is quite fascinating, difficult to master but worth it for the sense of natural realism. Smyth Research and Creative Labs' efforts are laudable; Sennheiser engineers are also applying their expertise to surround sound products such as our AMBEO VR Microphone for use in conjunction with VR cameras, a personal AMBEO Binaural recorder for use with smartphones, as well as the DSP in our GSX 1000 and 1200 external gaming soundcard. Classic stereo audio is indeed an art, but it is fair to say that the HD800 plus Binaural audio is well suited for Sennheiser's "Pursuit of Perfection."



-----
Sanctuary
My first experience with the HD800 was VERY much like yours! "Master and Commander" and the new "Mad Max" movies sound great in surround, have you tried any games yet?

I found the Bass Guitar to come out too, with tons of "texture" and a physical sensation on my ear, but not in a way that overpowers the rest of the sound. I posted some cool music tracks for jamesino above, if you key into the bass guitar, you have to check out "You Want It Darker." "Heart of the Sunrise" has sweet drumming, lots of ghost beats! For fun, I just have to check out that album that made your first HD800 impression


----------



## jamesino

@Sennheiser, thanks again for your help, it really provides a peace of mind!


----------



## MattTCG

Very nice to see a Sennheiser rep active here.


----------



## MWSVette

matttcg said:


> Very nice to see a Sennheiser rep active here.


 

 Agreed it is great to have an official voice chime in from time to time...


----------



## Sennheiser

Thanks for the encouragement guys! 

Sennheiser really values the community, and that's why I'm here. Thank YOU! Did you see my announcement?
http://www.head-fi.org/t/841044/sennheiser-meet-greet#post_13368021


----------



## randyb

Delete


----------



## inertianinja

I just performed the SuperDupont mod, thought I'd record a video to help others with the hardest part - getting the fabric off the driver housing:



 If you pull the fabric back slowly enough, the glue will detach from the fabric and stay on the driver frame. In the video you can see how slow I'm pulling, and how the glue just pops off the fabric and stays intact on the frame. This makes it easy to re-attach. Hope it helps someone out there.


----------



## Moochibond

randyb said:


> I was pretty sure I was going to pop for a Senn HD800S when I received my Symth Realiser 16 but nit after the "laughable" comment.


 
  




  
 The Sennheiser poster did not write laughable, they wrote: "Smyth Research and Creative Labs' efforts are _*laudable*_"
  
 Laudable meaning: (of an action, idea, or aim) deserving praise and commendation.
  
 You can buy your HD800S now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  [size=small] [/size]


----------



## mcteague

jamesino said:


> @Sennheiser, thanks a lot for reaching out to me!
> 
> 1) & 2) Nope, the ringing is not throughout the song. It usually occurs during vocals as a singer is holding a long note or belting out a loud note, but I don't think it's a natural vibrato. I want to say that it's usually only certain notes that are affected, but I'm poor at identifying pitch. I'm currently using a USB port on my computer, and the ringing still persists after trying different ports. The ringing is worse when I switch from the BHC Crack + Speedball to the Valhalla 2.
> 
> ...


 

 I have that Indigo Girls CD and listened to it with my HD800 headphones and do not hear any ringing. So, not the recording nor the HD800's fault I would think.
  
 Tim


----------



## Moochibond

mcteague said:


> I have that Indigo Girls CD and listened to it with my HD800 headphones and do not hear any ringing. So, not the recording nor the HD800's fault I would think.
> 
> Tim


 
 Nope, no ringing here either. A little bit of sibilance....
  
 No ringing on the First Aid Kit song either. She has a lovely voice


----------



## Moochibond

moochibond said:


> Nope, no ringing here either. A little bit of sibilance....
> 
> No ringing on the First Aid Kit song either. She has a lovely voice


 
  
  


mcteague said:


> I have that Indigo Girls CD and listened to it with my HD800 headphones and do not hear any ringing. So, not the recording nor the HD800's fault I would think.
> 
> Tim


 
  
  


jamesino said:


> @Sennheiser, thanks a lot for reaching out to me!
> 
> 1) & 2) Nope, the ringing is not throughout the song. It usually occurs during vocals as a singer is holding a long note or belting out a loud note, but I don't think it's a natural vibrato. I want to say that it's usually only certain notes that are affected, but I'm poor at identifying pitch. I'm currently using a USB port on my computer, and the ringing still persists after trying different ports. The ringing is worse when I switch from the BHC Crack + Speedball to the Valhalla 2.
> 
> ...


 
 Although (First Aid Kit) same album (The Lion's Roar), song; The Lion's Roar, there is a very high pitch frequency (very prominent) right at the very start of the song (it fades up at 0:02) - in fact it carries on all the way through, although I can only hear it during the quiet passages of the song. EDIT: Can't hear this high frequency sound at the very end of the song.
  
 Is this the sort of ringing you can hear in the other songs?


----------



## randyb

Oh my, my bad!!!  Sorry about that.


----------



## jamesino

Maybe sibilance is what I am hearing and I'm just doing a poor job of describing it. It's kind of this "un-naturesness" that, to me, sounds like ringing/vibrato/sibilance. Do you have any songs with very clear and obvious examples of sibilance that I can compare to?


----------



## Moochibond

jamesino said:


> Maybe sibilance is what I am hearing and I'm just doing a poor job of describing it. It's kind of this "un-naturesness." Do you have any songs with very clear and obvious examples of sibilance that I can compare to?


 
 One of the tracks you originally referred to "*Closer To Fine by Indigo Girls*" has many many clear and obvious examples of sibilance.
  
 Sibilance - e.g. when a word with the letter S is sung there can be this prolonged ssssssssssssss sound. It can be quite sharp/bright/piercing to the ear.
  
 Here is a YouTube video covering the topic:


----------



## uncletim

I'm looking for something transportable that may work well with my HD800, would have to work 110v/220v. according to Nhat if not into his $2K+ amp the only one he would recommend is the Schiit Mjolnir.  I want to hear his amp next time in Vietnam. 
  
 I'll see what comes up at canjam next week.
  
 Nhat's amp:


----------



## henrypham2

I am the only one having this amp right now dude . I have tried all schiit products but i think its not suit with my hd800 . Honestly i wanted to sell my hd800 so many times until i heard nhat's amp . I dont know how to explain in detail , just come vietnam and hear my amp )


----------



## Galm

zoom25 said:


> For a year before I had my Amphions, I loved my HD 800. Now I cannot stand the 6k peak at all. I was aware of it before, but I think I had gotten used to it. However, now when I am switching between monitors and headphones daily, it's simply not enough time to get used to it. It's painfully made obvious in stock form. I resorted to using Sonarworks for the past 2+ months. I'm still not fully satisfied. There's something really abnormal about that resonance. I mostly reach for the HD 598 now.
> 
> Anyone here compare the SuperDupont with the stock and Sonarworks (either stock or with SuperDupont)?


 
 My HD800 "journey" sounds like it may have been similar goal wise to you.  I loved the soundstage and clarity, but thought they were way way too bright.
  
 The SDR definitely helped.  Brings the sibilance like 90%+ down to HD800S levels (without the stupid bass distortion too).
  
 I also wanted a more V-Shaped or reference sound though and the stock bass is weak.  I ended up getting Woo WA7 Fireflies which are a pretty sexy looking tube amp.  I used CBS Hytron 5814a (red label or white label not blue) tubes which brought a lot more bass thump (confirmed with blind testing by me and my friend) and in turn makes the treble a little more tame.
  
 Lastly, I just picked up a Cayin iDac-6.  It's freakin awesome for what I want.  It makes the sound much smoother, and adds more bass in tube mode, or keeps it precise in ss mode.  Overall, it made the HD800s have way more bass thump, it's not lacking anymore.
  
 So Tidal -> iDac-6 (Tube mode) -> WA7 Fireflies -> HD800SDRs = Exactly what I wanted.  More bass, smoother, and more musical.  While still being super clear and open.


----------



## uncletim

henrypham2 said:


> I am the only one having this amp right now dude . I have tried all schiit products but i think its not suit with my hd800 . Honestly i wanted to sell my hd800 so many times until i heard nhat's amp . I dont know how to explain in detail , just come vietnam and hear my amp )


 

 I'll be back before my visa expires in Sept, looking forward to hearing it.


----------



## chimney189

EDIT: not worth my time.


----------



## Galm

chimney189 said:


>


 
 The HD800s are extremely sensitive.
  
 Like I posted above, the sound changed _significantly_ based on my setup.  It sounds like a different headphone compared to when I first got it and used a Chord Mojo.


----------



## silentmoon

galm said:


> My HD800 "journey" sounds like it may have been similar goal wise to you.  I loved the soundstage and clarity, but thought they were way way too bright.
> 
> The SDR definitely helped.  Brings the sibilance like 90%+ down to HD800S levels (without the stupid bass distortion too).
> 
> ...


 
 Have an eye on changing the 6c45 tube as well, the only 6c45 that i can recommend are the good-old-time 6c45 of Soviet Union circa 1970-1980, they have excellent electronic characteristic and no vaccuum problem when running in high temperature like the EH6c45 gold-pin, which are sold for 100$ bucks. Remember to buy them as matched pair, 6c45 was designed with 3% tolerance :| 
Kết quả tìm kproblem, find them on Eba


----------



## Galm

silentmoon said:


> Have an eye on changing the 6c45 tube as well, the only 6c45 that i can recommend are the good-old-time 6c45 of Soviet Union circa 1970-1980, they have excellent electronic characteristic and no vaccuum problem when running in high temperature like the EH6c45 gold-pin, which are sold for 100$ bucks. Remember to buy them as matched pair, 6c45 was designed with 3% tolerance :|
> Kết quả tìm kproblem, find them on Eba


 
 The WA7 Gold pin tubes made the bass anemic on the HD800s, they were awful...  AFAIK people haven't used much besides the gold pins and the stock Sovteks.  
  
 The power supply which is 12AU7 is what people are changing.
  
 I got matched pairs of from what I can tell extremely rare CBS Hytrons 5814a military graded tubes.  They have a yellow marking on top that I've never seen anywhere else for that model.  They are a clear improvement over the stock tubes.  The WA7 owners lounge loves em, and if you want warm, I'd say they're the best from the dozen or so that have been discussed over there.


----------



## johnjen

So I just obtained a 2nd pair of 800's and these are a recent build with a s/n in the low 40K numbers.
 My original 800's have a s/n in the 5K range.
  
 I have noticed a few mechanical parts have been re-designed, nothing major that I can see, but there are a few 'refinements'.
  
 The most noteable is to the driver capsule solder attachment points.
 It's not a huge deal but the re-design looks a bit more robust, which I see as a good thing.
  
 And other than changes to a few pieces of hardware (screws and coupling plates etc.) there isn't much of a difference between the old and the new 800's, at least as far as I can see.
  
 But I did mod the stock cable where I noticed that it too has been slightly changed from the original cable.
 And as a result the newer cable is a little easier to work with but man those strands of silver wire are tiny (0.07mm = 41 AWG), as in WAY less than a human hair, which makes for very small gauge conductors (0.3mm = 29 AWG).
  
 This alone tells me why so many report improvements using aftermarket cables.
 Just the increase in conductor gauge alone will result in noticeable changes.
  
 Although I do see why they chose to use this approach with small gauge silver wire along with the rest of the wiring in use.
 I see it as one of 2 distinctly different approaches that can be used to 'control' the drivers.
  
 And now the fun begins as I mod this new pair.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 JJ


----------



## Sennheiser

moochibond said:


> :blink:
> 
> The Sennheiser poster did not write laughable, they wrote: "Smyth Research and Creative Labs' efforts are _*laudable*_"
> 
> ...



Yes, thanks for pointing out the definition!



randyb said:


> Oh my, my bad!!!  Sorry about that.



My bad too, I wasn't sure what you were referring to at first! To be fair, I don't usually say or hear "laudable" in daily conversion, I probably would have heard it the other way too.

Headphone Surround Processing and the HD800 are a match made in heaven, DEFINITELY recommend experiencing it! Expect Sennheiser to continue pursue this area too!


----------



## randyb

I'm excited and looking forward to the 800(S) and Smyth Realiser. Realy sorry about misreading the word. My excuse is that I'm old


----------



## Sinter

I've had my HD800's for a little over a year now and have always had a love/hate relationship with them. I use them with a Sennheiser HDVA 600 amp balanced output and a Multibit Bifrost. I love listening with them to well recorded music of all kinds but hate using them with the inverse. I've tried most of the mods but found the results to be at best very subtle. I gave Sonarworks a go but thought it to be too heavy handed in the higher frequencies even with tweaking. To me the biggest downside of using any headphone is how sibilant sounds seem to be emphasized and the HD800 is no different in that regard. Perhaps that's the price to pay for otherwise almost unbelievable reproduction. Has anyone else tried using Toneboosters Sibalance de-esser plugin to tame both sibilance and to a much lesser extent the brightness? I've found it to be much less intrusive than other de-essers and with conservative settings seems to target sibilance without obvious artifacts and sound degradation. The biggest downside that I've noticed thus far is a few dB reduction in some high frequency sounds in brick walled recordings. Any thoughts?


----------



## Galm

sinter said:


> I've had my HD800's for a little over a year now and have always had a love/hate relationship with them. I use them with a Sennheiser HDVA 600 amp balanced output and a Multibit Bifrost. I love listening with them to well recorded music of all kinds but hate using them with the inverse. I've tried most of the mods but found the results to be at best very subtle. I gave Sonarworks a go but thought it to be too heavy handed in the higher frequencies even with tweaking. To me the biggest downside of using any headphone is how sibilant sounds seem to be emphasized and the HD800 is no different in that regard. Perhaps that's the price to pay for otherwise almost unbelievable reproduction. Has anyone else tried using Toneboosters Sibalance de-esser plugin to tame both sibilance and to a much lesser extent the brightness? I've found it to be much less intrusive than other de-essers and with conservative settings seems to target sibilance without obvious artifacts and sound degradation. The biggest downside that I've noticed thus far is a few dB reduction in some high frequency sounds in brick walled recordings. Any thoughts?


 
 Have you done the SDR mod?  I would strongly recommend doing that first.  It really helps bring down the sibilance.  
  
 For my set up I then found going with a warmer tube and and dac pretty much got rid of any annoying treble, made them much better with other genres.
  
 Im using an iDac-6 and WA7 Fireflies with stock amp tubes and CBS Hytron 5814a red label (not blue) PSU tubes.


----------



## Bucake

Howdy!
  
 Is there any known EU-based address that fixes HD800 cables?
  
  
 ..because my stock HD800 cable is finished.
 I can guarantee that I have practically treated these headphones like a lil' baby. Carefully, calmly, and no silly stuff.
 Couldn't tell you why or how it happened, but the cable* started splitting a while back, and it just got a little bit worse every day. (*Rubber part, left side.)
 Eventually, the sound started to cut out periodically, and now it's barely working anymore. And so.. it's finished.
  
 Unfortunately I don't have the skill or gear to fix this cable myself, so I am looking for alternatives.
 And I can't see myself change headphones, so I have no choice but to get this fixed, or get a new cable.
  
  
 Would appreciate suggestions,
 cheers!


----------



## Sinter

I have no idea if they would fix your cable but Forza Audioworks is based in Poland and makes excellent, reasonably priced cables. I have both a Claire HPC Mk2 and a Copper Series HPC Mk2 extended base model that I would recommend highly.


----------



## HPLobster

bucake said:


> Howdy!
> 
> Is there any known EU-based address that fixes HD800 cables?
> 
> ...


 
  
  


sinter said:


> I have no idea if they would fix your cable but Forza Audioworks is based in Poland and makes excellent, reasonably priced cables. I have both a Claire HPC Mk2 and a Copper Series HPC Mk2 extended base model that I would recommend highly.


 
  
 1) http://de-de.sennheiser.com/service-support-kontakt - you can choose country selection on the front page (scroll down)
 2) I own a Forza Audioworks cable (not for the HD800) and can also recommend them wholeheartedly
 3) Massdrop does this drop once in a while https://www.massdrop.com/buy/sennheiser-hd-800-zy-cable      good quality/price-ratio


----------



## ColtMrFire

sinter said:


> Perhaps that's the price to pay for otherwise almost unbelievable performance




Bingo. While I have no problem 99% of the time with brightness or sibilance (I have the right amp), I have tried various mods, EQ and even Sonaworks. This is just my own experience but for me the HD800 has not responded well to tweaks. It is such a sensitive beast that even the slightest tweak seems to throw everything off balance like removing one card from a house of cards causing a collapse, and the HP would sound weird to me and something else would be compromised such as soundstage, frequency reponse, etc, and I would end up hating the change. For me mods and EQ take away what is special about the HP in the first place. I have always gone back to stock finding it the perfect balance and can hear the years of work Sennheiser put into constructing it. It is a very finnicky sensitive device that is what it is, and I'd rather just buy another HP that suits those particular needs.


----------



## blacknile

Amp-related question - Those of you who live in Europe and cannot/do not wish to purchase American/Chinese products - what are the recommended amps for the HD800? Is Sennheiser's own HDVD 800 a recommended option? I have heard good things in terms of pairing with the following European amps:
  
 -Violectric V200
 -Meier Audio Classic
 -Pathos Aurium
 -Feliks Audio Elise
  
 Anything else? Once again: I am not interested in products that would be difficult to source or get repaired/replaced in Europe, so no Schiit, no Cavalli, no Audio-GD, no esoteric artisan American valve amps please.
  
 Any other suggestions?


----------



## treebug

Sennheiser HDVA 600. Same amp as the HDVD 800 but without the digital inputs. Used in balanced mode with Sennheiser CH800S cable, it's fabulous! Had this set up for a few years now and very happy with it. Had the Pathos Aurium, very nice amp too but I prefer the Senn amp. No tubes to worry about either.


----------



## chimney189

Can anyone here recommend a hybrid tube amplifier?  I'm looking to use my Alpha Primes with the setup as well as my HD800. 
  
 What comes immediately to mind is the Monoprice Stereo Tube amplifier, yet I'm wondering if there are more out there that I can consider?
 I'm looking to spend $500 or less.
  
  
 Thanks.


----------



## bigfatpaulie

Out of curiosity, why a hybrid amp specifically?


----------



## ColtMrFire

chimney189 said:


> Can anyone here recommend a hybrid tube amplifier?  I'm looking to use my Alpha Primes with the setup as well as my HD800.
> 
> What comes immediately to mind is the Monoprice Stereo Tube amplifier, yet I'm wondering if there are more out there that I can consider?
> I'm looking to spend $500 or less.
> ...


 
  
 Schiit Lyr is very good with the right (not necessarily expensive) tubes.  Unfortunately I had to sell my Lyr 1 because I kept getting bad tubes and got sick of dealing with tubes, and the LISST solid state tubes have too high of a noise floor.  This is not really a problem on Lyr 2 with its gain switch.  But the amp with great tubes was excellent.  So I ordered a Magni 2 Uber until I save up for a Burson Soloist and eventually a Bryson BHA-1 (which is supposed to be one of the best SS pairings for the HD800).


----------



## chimney189

Thanks for the reply.  How are the stock tubes?


----------



## Fearless1

The best tube Hybrid amp I own that is phenomenal with the HD800 is the Fosgate Signature, it is over your budget but can sometimes be found on the used market for around 600 bucks. Not much recognition here on Head-fi, but one of the best pairings I have yet to hear with the HD800.


----------



## ColtMrFire

chimney189 said:


> Thanks for the reply.  How are the stock tubes?




Honestly not very good. Getting better tubes is a must IMO. I quite liked the Bugle Boys.


----------



## Svatopluk

blacknile said:


> Amp-related question - Those of you who live in Europe and cannot/do not wish to purchase American/Chinese products - what are the recommended amps for the HD800? Is Sennheiser's own HDVD 800 a recommended option? I have heard good things in terms of pairing with the following European amps:
> 
> -Violectric V200
> -Meier Audio Classic
> ...


 
 After well over two years of use, I'm still very pleased with the HD800/HDVA600 pairing. If used only with high impedance headphones, the Sennheiser amps are great but unfortunately they lack an optional gain setting so they may not be the best match for lower impedance headphones.
 The Violectric V200 has optional gain settings so it would be more versatile and has been said to pair well with the HD800. I'm not familiar with the other three, although I do know there is a Feliks Audio Elise forum somewhere around here.


----------



## DavidA

chimney189 said:


> Can anyone here recommend a hybrid tube amplifier?  I'm looking to use my Alpha Primes with the setup as well as my HD800.
> 
> What comes immediately to mind is the Monoprice Stereo Tube amplifier, yet I'm wondering if there are more out there that I can consider?
> I'm looking to spend $500 or less.
> ...


 
 A project Ember is within your budget but its not a great pairing with the HD800 but its good with the Alpha Primes.
  
 The Lyr2 is good but with the additional cost of tubes it will be over your budget and to me not a great pairing also, for me the BH Crack is a better match but with some updated caps and tubes it is also a little above your budget.


blacknile said:


> Amp-related question - Those of you who live in Europe and cannot/do not wish to purchase American/Chinese products - what are the recommended amps for the HD800? Is Sennheiser's own HDVD 800 a recommended option? I have heard good things in terms of pairing with the following European amps:
> 
> -Violectric V200
> -Meier Audio Classic
> ...


 
 The Elise is great with the HD800, even with the stock tubes
 the other amp that was good is a Icon HP8 Mk2


----------



## ColtMrFire

Good tubes are not expensive. Volkshods are much better than stock tubes and can be gotten fairly cheap (just be sure they are matched and tested for noise). As far as SQ the Lyr is great. The HD800 isn't as amp picky as people have been led to believe. It will sound like the HD800 no matter what its plugged into... with varying levels of quality depending on the amp, but it even sounds good ouy of the HP jack of my laptop (using JRiver and Process Lasso to clean up CPU processing noise). I find the 800 is more fussy about stuff like AC power, dirty cables, noise floor issues, noisy computers etc., which can compromise the sound. It is fairly easy to drive these phones to potential. Of course there are amps out there that squeeze every last drop of performance out, but those tend to be over $1K. Most well made amps under $500 are going to be fine as long as they are not too bright. Alot of this is just going to come down to preference.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Wow, I must say "Straight Cold Player" off Lenny Kravitz's album "5" is reminding me just how insanely good the bass on the HD800 is. It is localized in a point in space, rather than blaring out of the headphones, and hits with a clean and punchy force I've never heard out of a HP before. So clean, tight but powerful and with textural resolution. No bloat whatsoever.


----------



## nephilim32

coltmrfire said:


> Good tubes are not expensive. Volkshods are much better than stock tubes and can be gotten fairly cheap (just be sure they are matched and tested for noise). As far as SQ the Lyr is great. The HD800 isn't as amp picky as people have been led to believe. It will sound like the HD800 no matter what its plugged into... with varying levels of quality depending on the amp, but it even sounds good ouy of the HP jack of my laptop (using JRiver and Process Lasso to clean up CPU processing noise). I find the 800 is more fussy about stuff like AC power, dirty cables, noise floor issues, noisy computers etc., which can compromise the sound. It is fairly easy to drive these phones to potential. Of course there are amps out there that squeeze every last drop of performance out, but those tend to be over $1K. Most well made amps under $500 are going to be fine as long as they are not too bright. Alot of this is just going to come down to preference.




Great post. Agree with a lot of it, however I feel it's the 3 to 4k amps that are the real potential squeezers.


----------



## Moochibond

Does anyone based in the UK have a pair of standard male connectors they are willing to sell?
  
 If you don't have a pair, do you know where I may buy a pair, in the UK?
  
 Please find attached a couple of photographs showing the standard type connector I would like to buy.
  
 Thanks


----------



## caravanapalace

Hi there head-fi. Long time lurker, first time (almost) poster here.
  
 I pulled the trigger on HD800 with Magni/Modi combo about a week ago. I previously owned high end headphones, Sennheiser Momentum 2s, they were awesome, I loved their sound signature, warmth, comfort.
  
 Walking out of the store I couldn't believe I actually did it, but one week later my mind has been blown every day from how ridiculous these sound. For the first time in my life I'm actually hearing musical instruments. Overly striking to me are drums, I love how you can hear their sounds fade out. Everything about this headphones is incredible. Except maybe they slide down when I tilt my head but I can live with that.
  
 I listen to wide variety of genres, though mostly EDM. I read somewhere on the internets that HD800 excel in complex music, which makes sense, so I'd like to ask you head-fi, *what songs would you recommend listening to to experience these on top of their game?*
  
 Many thanks


----------



## Moochibond

caravanapalace said:


> *what songs would you recommend listening to to experience these on top of their game?*


----------



## ColtMrFire

Hello, congrats, best purchase I ever made in this hobby. Did you get the Modi multibit? If not I would HIGHLY recommend, much better than Modi 2, and no slouch next to Yggdrasil, their $2200 statement DAC. Modi MB was something of a game changer in its price range.

As far as demo music...

Lenny Kravitz "5"

Aphex Twin "Syro"

Charles Mingus "Mingus Ah Um"

Wagner Ring Cycle (Solti version). Best Opera/classical I ever heard, something of a gold standard of the genre

Chicago "17" (MFSL version), probably my favorite 80s synth pop record

Jerry Goldsmith "Explorers" (Expanded edition), probably my best sounding movie score

Louis Armstrong and Ella Fitzgerald "Porgy and Bess", incredible example of how good 50s/60s sound engineering was

David Holmes "Oceans 13" (track #12 wow)

Really the list of music to show off the HD800s strengths is endless. Anything that was well mastered, but those are some of my top recordings SQ wise.

Welcome to the club.


----------



## Moochibond




----------



## OldSkool




----------



## nephilim32

caravanapalace said:


> Hi there head-fi. Long time lurker, first time (almost) poster here.
> 
> I pulled the trigger on HD800 with Magni/Modi combo about a week ago. I previously owned high end headphones, Sennheiser Momentum 2s, they were awesome, I loved their sound signature, warmth, comfort.
> 
> ...




First and foremost. May I say that this is a great post. I love hearing about these amazing and enthusiastic stories that revolve in night and day audio transformations. 
Also, congrats on the HD 800's. I had the same feeling as you about 5 yrs ago when I bought mine. I remember leaving the store knowing and feeling I really just took a great audio leap and there would be no going back for me. Call it 'love at first listen.' 
Now getting to your music tastes being centered around electronic and deep bass sounds there are of course many many incredible recordings out there and I've heard a ton with my 800's, but mainly I will be brief to share what recordings are truly meant for these headphones of ours in the EBM scene. The production and sense of space in the soundstage is out of this world with these recordings I find. 

Depeche mode --(remixes 1981-2004) 
The Prodigy-- The Fat of the Land ( 15th ann. Remaster edition)
Nine Inch Nails-- Pretty Hate Machine (20th ann. remaster edition)
BT-- These Reimagined Machines
Fear Factory-- Hatefiles. (This is brilliant!!)

That should keep you busy for a while. Feel free to let me know if you want more later on. 
Once again, congrats and enjoy the music.


----------



## Yoga

Look for specific producers and engineers to hear the best stuff (musical taste aside).
  
 Elmhirst, Masserati, Timbaland, Spike, Danger Mouse, Marroquin, Pensado etc.
  
 Producers and especially mix engineers are the peeps responsible for that amazing hi-fi experience.


----------



## RCBinTN

caravanapalace said:


> Hi there head-fi. Long time lurker, first time (almost) poster here.
> 
> I pulled the trigger on HD800 with Magni/Modi combo about a week ago. I previously owned high end headphones, Sennheiser Momentum 2s, they were awesome, I loved their sound signature, warmth, comfort.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Since you like EDM, perhaps try anything from Daft Punk.  _Random Access Memories_ sounds great, to me, on the HD800.  
  
 Enjoy your music!
 RCB


----------



## ColtMrFire

The Brainfeeder artists are also pretty great for EDM.
  
 Flying Lotus, Samiyam, Daedelus, Gaslamp Killer, Lapalux, Mono/Poly, Teebs...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

easiest way to make this thread lose its schiit: "hey i just got HD800 what should I listen to?"


----------



## LugBug1

Clocking in with a new HD800 serial 42*** (second hand). My second pair. Just had a two year break getting by with older Senn flagships.
  
 Daddies home


----------



## Sorrodje

Hey Mate . Welcome back here


----------



## LugBug1

sorrodje said:


> Hey Mate . Welcome back here


 
 Thanks mate good to see you! I see you've been quite busy as well. Loved your HD800s review and the work you've done regarding SDR mods etc - very helpful.


----------



## Sorrodje

Yea still with my old Senn. Your positive comments are much appreciated thks!

Good to see you back here. Good advices ,good music recommendations and a good sense of humor are always welcome.


----------



## murphythecat

good synergy between ifi amps with bass boost and hd800, highly recommended. I couldnt live with the hd800 without ifi Xbass.


----------



## LugBug1

So after a couple of days adjustment time with the almighty ones I'm falling in love all over again  
  
 Boy I've missed these bad boys. Had the HD700 (as well as the HD650/600)  for the last 8 months and really enjoyed them but seriously nothing that I've heard compares to the HD800 for classical music. Every instrument comes through clearly. They handle the most complex orchestral textures with arrogant confidence. Instrumental textures are reassuringly real. The size of the soundstage is phenomenal and the nearest thing to sitting in front of a pair of shiny wasso speakers. The finest details of the recording are teased out with surgical accuracy. Instruments float weightless in the black oil of space like stars on a clear night... (ok I'll stop now) 
  
 Safe to say I'm happy with the sound


----------



## ColtMrFire

Indeed.  I've been enjoying alot of classical and opera on them recently.  And I can never get used to how stunningly accurate and palpable the imaging and timbre is, as well as resolution... you can hear every single instrument doing its own thing with weight and physicality. An R2R mulitibt DAC like the Modi multibit helps immensely with this.  Jaw droppingly good.


----------



## GloriousLettuce

I have an opportunity to get used HD800 for a very good price.

Tell me, how is the treble compared to K702. I find K702 not to be sibilant, when slightly EQ-d. 

Is HD800 more sibilant or less than K702?

This is the defermining factor for me, as I know everything else is better - I aim for realism and soundstage.


----------



## Galm

gloriouslettuce said:


> I have an opportunity to get used HD800 for a very good price.
> 
> Tell me, how is the treble compared to K702. I find K702 not to be sibilant, when slightly EQ-d.
> 
> ...


 
 You should do the SDR mod when you get them if that's a concern.  I think it helped a lot.  Then I pair it with a warmer tube amp and I think it's a real nice sound.  
  
 http://s69.photobucket.com/user/rdh_skylab/media/HD800vDT880vD7000.png.html
 http://i.imgur.com/UlRTBuv.png


----------



## GloriousLettuce

I won't be doing any mods to a headphone.

If the treble is not hotter than K702 then I won't be having any problems.

Otherwise I would save up for new HD800S


----------



## ColtMrFire

I have not heard the 701, but I have no problems with sibilance on my setup.

People also need to realize many recordings contain sibilance on purpose. The HD800 will reproduce accurately what is on the recording. If you dont want accuracy, get a different headphone.

And sibilance does not have to be painful or annoying. I can hear it on certain recordings but it does not bother me because I have a smootb analog sounding DAC and clean AC power going into my setup. Those go a long way in helping since the 800 picks up everything in your chain.

The biggest hurdle for me was getting the power sorted.


----------



## LugBug1

Agreed^^ 
  
 I personally think you may be surprised by how none fatiguing/sibilant the treble is - especially coming from the K702. The AKG's treble is quite frankly, primitive in comparison. Hope this helps


----------



## Galm

gloriouslettuce said:


> I won't be doing any mods to a headphone.
> 
> If the treble is not hotter than K702 then I won't be having any problems.
> 
> Otherwise I would save up for new HD800S


 
 The point is the HD800S basically is the HD800 with that mod.  All you do is peel back a screen and put in the Super Dupont Resonator.  It took like 5 minutes and that's what the main difference is on the HD800S.  
  
 I prefer doing that instaed of the S because the S also has bass distortion to boost the bass, but I'd rather just use warmer tubes.  Obviously your call, but the mod is very simple and not all that scary.
  
 Have many other users here done it?  Innerfidelity even said that he liked the HD800 with the mod I think at least as much as the S with EQ. 
  
 https://youtu.be/T0QrsBzmVVw?t=869


----------



## Zoom25

coltmrfire said:


> The biggest hurdle for me was getting the power sorted.


 
  
 Recently, I changed the stock outlets in my house with cryoed Hubbell HBL 5262 (less than $30 CAD) and it was the biggest change I've heard per price. Way more noticeable than changing cables or even going back and forth between top DACs. Takes about 5-10 minutes max and very easy to do.
  
 For the past few months, I couldn't use the stock at all for more than a few minutes. Even with Sonarworks running 70% to 100%, I was still getting fatigued. Like the treble outbursts would make me physically put down the HD 800. After the replacement, it's so much better than before. Treble glare is practically gone. I can still hear the energy in the highs and know its still there in excess, but it's presented in a non-fatiguing way, ALMOST. Don't expect it to become a LCD-2. It's the best upgrade I've done given performance for money, hands down. I've been able to run stock this past week.
  
 https://www.takefiveaudio.com/products/1491-hubbell-5262w-heavy-duty-grade-outlet-white-cryo-treated/
  
_"These 5262 outlets have unplated brass contacts and brass mounting strap, they are as well optimized for 15A wall plugs with vertical wipers on both poles. If you are using 15A wall plugs this is the outlet to get."_
  
 I only found out about differences in outlets a few months ago, so I'm not that experienced with their design, although there are a plenty of reasons and discussions out there. It's the cheapest upgrade I have ever done. Physically, it grips the equipment better as well.
  
 I'm thinking of adding a SDR on top to see how much I can take the stock without Sonarworks.


----------



## ColtMrFire

zoom25 said:


> Recently, I changed the stock outlets in my house with cryoed Hubbell HBL 5262 (less than $30 CAD) and it was the biggest change I've heard per price. Way more noticeable than changing cables or even going back and forth between top DACs. Takes about 5-10 minutes max and very easy to do.
> 
> For the past few months, I couldn't use the stock at all for more than a few minutes. Even with Sonarworks running 70% to 100%, I was still getting fatigued. Like the treble outbursts would make me physically put down the HD 800. After the replacement, it's so much better than before. Treble glare is practically gone. I can still hear the energy in the highs and know its still there in excess, but it's presented in a non-fatiguing way, ALMOST. Don't expect it to become a LCD-2. It's the best upgrade I've done given performance for money, hands down. I've been able to run stock this past week.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sounds about right.
  
 My personal experience has been this.  The HD800's treble "problem" has been in direct proportion to the quality of AC power going into my gear.  It's unfortunate that people who found them harsh and returned them may have had power issues that needed sorting.  
  
 The HD800's are devastatingly accurate in every respect.  It will pick up any and every flaw in a system, even stuff people don't think matters.  From dirty cable connections (I clean all my connections with Isopropyl alcohol every few months) to dirty AC power.  I wish it wasn't this involved, but they're extremely high maintenance.  But cross every "t" and dot every "i" and you will be rewarded.


----------



## deserat

Just finished building and burning in a Bottlehead Mainline. Gumby > Mainline > HD800 ... Best bass I have heard short of the HE-1 (Orpheus). Powerful, tight, impactful, rumble the side of my head bass. Beyond anything my HE 560, Ether C, or the Oppo PM-3's I've borrowed can even come close to. While I've heard the HE 6, HE Edition X, Stax 007 and 009 they were all at CanJam - so it's hard to call since I don't listen to them regularly in a quiet environment. 

 Actually the stack I now have feeding the HD800 is producing music like I never imagined headphones could. Ya I've plugged the other phones into the mainline - they are nice - but the HD800 takes flight and leaves them all behind. Fly little angels, fly.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I once had the opportunity to listen to a Mainline/HD800/Yggy combo, and I passed.  Still kicking myself.  To be fair I got to listen to other great gear, but didn't have time for Mainline.


----------



## johnjen

deserat said:


> Just finished building and burning in a Bottlehead Mainline. Gumby > Mainline > HD800 ... Best bass I have heard short of the HE-1 (Orpheus). Powerful, tight, impactful, rumble the side of my head bass. Beyond anything my HE 560, Ether C, or the Oppo PM-3's I've borrowed can even come close to. While I've heard the HE 6, HE Edition X, Stax 007 and 009 they were all at CanJam - so it's hard to call since I don't listen to them regularly in a quiet environment.
> 
> Actually the stack I now have feeding the HD800 is producing music like I never imagined headphones could. Ya I've plugged the other phones into the mainline - they are nice - but the HD800 takes flight and leaves them all behind. Fly little angels, fly.


 
 800's use a dynamic driver where as e-stats and planars use a flat diaphragm that is excited directly by magnetic fields.
  
 Estats have limitations in terms of throw distance (it is very short) and planars tend to move the whole diaphragm as a whole.
  
 Since estats, have such a short throw, this means the diaphragm simply can't move the amount of air that very low bass requires.
 Yes they are VERY quick which gives them wonderful detail but they lack the ability to move air, which is what low bass is all about (can you say chest thumps and head compressions?).
  
 And planars, you would think because they do have greater throw, should excel in the bass and they can, but the entire diaphragm is being used for the full bandwidth, and because they need to create the magnetic field on both sides of the diaphragm, this tends to obscure the inner details everywhere.
 This means the inner details of the upper harmonics of the bass (and every other 'voice') become muddied and indistinct to a greater degree than the estat designs or the dynamic drivers.
  
 Dynamic drivers usually have even greater throw than planars and certainly than estats.
 And the magnetic 'motor' doesn't sit between the driver and our ears and 'get in the way' of the created acoustic waveform, unlike both the estats and planars.
 Thus the acoustic pressure created by the driver has much more direct access to our ears, ie is less muddied especially at the lowest frequencies, where truly kicha** bass comes from.
  
 And granted dynamic drivers have their fair share of limitations for sure but in our case the 800's can rattle our heads and deliver powerful subsonic bass with detail and nuance the likes of which the other classes of drivers have a really hard time matching.
 And especially when the rest of the audio spectrum is taken into account, ie listening to music not just bass, the 800's, when dialed in, can simply deliver astounding bass, more than I ever thought would or could be possible.
  
 JJ


----------



## deserat

coltmrfire said:


> I once had the opportunity to listen to a Mainline/HD800/Yggy combo, and I passed.  Still kicking myself.  To be fair I got to listen to other great gear, but didn't have time for Mainline.


 
  
 Would very much love to hook a yggy up and hear the difference between it and the Gumby someday.. Again, I've heard the Gumby MJ2, stack and the Yggy/Ragnorok stack... but only at a CanJam.... granted the Schiitr is only 5 hours  from here ( 30 miles, in LA travel time  ).


----------



## JamieMcC

deserat said:


> Just finished building and burning in a Bottlehead Mainline. Gumby > Mainline > HD800 ... Best bass I have heard short of the HE-1 (Orpheus). Powerful, tight, impactful, rumble the side of my head bass. Beyond anything my HE 560, Ether C, or the Oppo PM-3's I've borrowed can even come close to. While I've heard the HE 6, HE Edition X, Stax 007 and 009 they were all at CanJam - so it's hard to call since I don't listen to them regularly in a quiet environment.
> 
> Actually the stack I now have feeding the HD800 is producing music like I never imagined headphones could. Ya I've plugged the other phones into the mainline - they are nice - but the HD800 takes flight and leaves them all behind. Fly little angels, fly.


 
  
 Congrats on your Mainline build and welcome to the club.
  
 Your Mainline is only going to get better with use as all the components burn in probably for the next 20-40hrs or so at least. If your not running your HD800 balanced I would recommend doing so.
  
 PS If you ever want to crank up the perfomance even further the Mainline responds well to upgrading the Dayton 10uf parafeed output capacitors.
  
 Enjoy your Mainline


----------



## ColtMrFire

deserat said:


> Would very much love to hook a yggy up and hear the difference between it and the Gumby someday.. Again, I've heard the Gumby MJ2, stack and the Yggy/Ragnorok stack... but only at a CanJam.... granted the Schiitr is only 5 hours  from here ( 30 miles, in LA travel time  ).


 
  
 I'm still amazed how close my $250 Modi Multibit sounds to the Yggy.  There are differences, but they are small.  Mimby was a game changer for sure.


----------



## MattTCG

johnjen said:


> And granted dynamic drivers have their fair share of limitations for sure but in our case the 800's can rattle our heads and deliver powerful subsonic bass with detail and nuance the likes of which the other classes of drivers have a really hard time matching.
> *And especially when the rest of the audio spectrum is taken into account, ie listening to music not just bass, the 800's, when dialed in, can simply deliver astounding bass, more than I ever thought would or could be possible.*
> 
> JJ


 
  
 This has been a somewhat shocking discovery for me as well. Given the reputation of the hd800 as thin, bright etc, I never would have thought that they were capable of some of the best if not the best bass response in the game...they are.


----------



## Galm

matttcg said:


> This has been a somewhat shocking discovery for me as well. Given the reputation of the hd800 as thin, bright etc, I never would have thought that they were capable of some of the best if not the best bass response in the game...they are.


 
 Well, I agree in the quality of the bass.  I think the level of bass is still low making the stock headphones sound bright, and that the reputation is well earned.  
  
 I'm assuming from his sig he has modified his to get a larger bass response.  My entire set up is literally based around increasing the bass response in my HD800s.  I have warm tubes, a Cayin iDac-6 with it's tube buffer, and the SDR mod all to boost the bass.  The quality of it has always been incredible, it's just not very loud compared to the treble at stock.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I find the level of bass to depend on the recording, I've heard some serious punch from these babies.  I just think people are used to overemphasized bass, which seems to be the overwhelming aspect of modern headphones.  Nothing wrong with that, but I think it's inaccurate to label the 800s bass _light_.  They are bass accurate.  I am not hearing light bass on certain hip hop and pop albums, or even dynamic orchestral music.


----------



## deserat

jamiemcc said:


> PS If you ever want to crank up the perfomance even further the Mainline responds well to upgrading the Dayton 10uf parafeed output capacitors.


 
  
 Thanks! I've burned in now for a bit over 100 hours, the SQ changed quite noticeably over that time. At first I'd have put the Mainline at or slightly below my HDVA 600, after burn in I've decided to sell HDVA 600.   

 I've already picked up the EC 6c45pi  based on reading both your and @Loquah ranking of the tubes. Though I want to enjoy the stock sound for awhile so haven't rolled 'em in yet. 

 Any recommendation on Caps? I seem to recall you are partial to the Russians though I'd prefer something I can put in with a zip tie and plastic mount.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Sell the Gumby too and get the Yggy.


----------



## Galm

coltmrfire said:


> I find the level of bass to depend on the recording, I've heard some serious punch from these babies.  I just think people are used to overemphasized bass, which seems to be the overwhelming aspect of modern headphones.  Nothing wrong with that, but I think it's inaccurate to label the 800s bass _light_.  They are bass accurate.  I am not hearing light bass on certain hip hop and pop albums, or even dynamic orchestral music.


 
 Perhaps true.  However, I find on a lot of rock albums the guitars over power the bass making it rather difficult to hear.  My ie800s offer a more balanced sound to my ears despite being V Shaped as I can hear all the instruments about the same (although V Shaped should be about neutral with increasing volume or whatever).


----------



## ColtMrFire

The HD800 also presents bass in accurate locations in the headstage... that can make it seem like the bass is lighter, when in fact it's just coming from somewhere in the soundstage and traveling and dispersing as actual bass would.  Most headphones have bass being pumped straight out of the headphone in a one-note manner, giving the feeling there is more bass, on top of bass being overemphasized.
  
 For instance, I'm listening to Lenny Kravitz's "5" album.  There are a number of tracks where the bass seems to be coming from across a room, rather than just materializing out of the drivers.  It hits hard, but has a diffuse kind of dispersment, like sound echoing in a real space.  It sounds more accurate, but less in your face.  I think this characteristic can lead to misunderstanding how the HD800 presents bass, leading people to believe they are "bass light".  I think people are not really used to hearing accurate bass with this much resolution and texture.


----------



## JamieMcC

deserat said:


> Thanks! I've burned in now for a bit over 100 hours, the SQ changed quite noticeably over that time. At first I'd have put the Mainline at or slightly below my HDVA 600, after burn in I've decided to sell HDVA 600.
> 
> I've already picked up the EC 6c45pi  based on reading both your and @Loquah ranking of the tubes. Though I want to enjoy the stock sound for awhile so haven't rolled 'em in yet.
> 
> Any recommendation on Caps? I seem to recall you are partial to the Russians though I'd prefer something I can put in with a zip tie and plastic mount.


 

 The Russian caps can be good value especially the Teflons but you wont find any close to the 10uf value used in the Mainline which means they really could only be used for bypass duty.
  
 Mundorf supreme are always a good choice and wont break the bank but there are lots of other brands availiable places like partsconnexion and hificollective often run promotions but I would suggest a bottlehead mainline google image search and having a look what others are using. It is possible to score some great deals off of ebay if you are patient and persistent in looking for them.


----------



## lovethatsound

coltmrfire said:


> The HD800 also presents bass in accurate locations in the headstage... that can make it seem like the bass is lighter, when in fact it's just coming from somewhere in the soundstage and traveling and dispersing as actual bass would.  Most headphones have bass being pumped straight out of the headphone in a one-note manner, giving the feeling there is more bass, on top of bass being overemphasized.
> 
> For instance, I'm listening to Lenny Kravitz's "5" album.  There are a number of tracks where the bass seems to be coming from across a room, rather than just materializing out of the drivers.  It hits hard, but has a diffuse kind of dispersment, like sound echoing in a real space.  It sounds more accurate, but less in your face.  I think this characteristic can lead to misunderstanding how the HD800 presents bass, leading people to believe they are "bass light".  I think people are not really used to hearing accurate bass with this much resolution and texture.


Totally agree with you,alot of new headphones have got unrealistic bass,in fact what-hifi have just review the folac utopia and said their glad that focal didn't overemphasised the bass,because they said alot of headphone manufacturers are at the moment.


----------



## jibzilla

I have to give the nod to a well driven 007mk1 it terms of bass from an overall perspective. The Teton and Ravenswood with the hd800 comes close but ultimately falls short. The hd800's biggest standout to me is its crappy treble. Might leave your ears ringing if you pair with a dry SS amp or bright sounding stock cable but it is what gives the hd800 its soundstage imo and that is what really sets it apart from other headphones other than maybe k-1000 or Quaila which are much more expensive now.
  
 The hd800's comfort too also sets it apart. At least for my head it is the most comfortable out of many.


----------



## ColtMrFire

For the record I have no issues with the 800s treble.  Of course pairing it with a bright amp wont do it any favors, like any headphone that is extremely resolving in the upper frequencies.  Also, I hear alot of flak about the stock cable, but I have tried two aftermarket cables and they both were inferior.  The stock cable is very very good and I have no desire to upgrade it at this point having heard supposedly "better" cables.


----------



## Galm

coltmrfire said:


> For the record I have no issues with the 800s treble.  Of course pairing it with a bright amp wont do it any favors, like any headphone that is extremely resolving in the upper frequencies.  Also, I hear alot of flak about the stock cable, but I have tried two aftermarket cables and they both were inferior.  The stock cable is very very good and I have no desire to upgrade it at this point having heard supposedly "better" cables.


 
 Isn't the peak in the treble somewhat objectively not reference?  I mean that's one of the main things the S version did, and was definitely a noticeable improvement for me after doing the SDR mod.  I found, though this is more personal, that before the mod the sound was more sibilant, but even more so very fatiguing.


----------



## RCBinTN

galm said:


> Isn't the peak in the treble somewhat objectively not reference?  I mean that's one of the main things the S version did, and was definitely a noticeable improvement for me after doing the SDR mod.  I found, though this is more personal, that before the mod the sound was more sibilant, but even more so very fatiguing.


 
  
 I think the HD800 treble is somewhat a personal thing.  It's also very dependent on the DAC & amp pairing.
  
 My HD800 sounded bright until I hit on the current rig - GMB and Bryston BHA-1.  That rig works well w/ the HD800, although, for some music, I switch the BHA-1 to low-gain mode.  The most tamed-treble rig I've heard w/ the HD800 was the Yggy / WA5 that was uber smooth and not treble-bright at all.  IMO, most rigs without enough power will result in a bright HD800 sound.  Can't just run these HP's from a cell phone.
  
 YMMV,
 RCBinTN


----------



## ColtMrFire

galm said:


> Isn't the peak in the treble somewhat objectively not reference?  I mean that's one of the main things the S version did, and was definitely a noticeable improvement for me after doing the SDR mod.  I found, though this is more personal, that before the mod the sound was more sibilant, but even more so very fatiguing.


 
  
 For me the peak is not a problem when the headphone is paired with an appropriate amp, smooth DAC and supplied *clean AC power*.  If you go back several posts we talk about the power issue.  From my own experience the power issue was the most important in taking care of any top end problems (harshness, sibilance, fatigue), and the extremely sensitive nature of the headphone exacerbates dirty power which manifests in the treble regions from what I've experienced.  Once I took care of the power, I had zero problems with any of these issues.  YMMV depending on your ears.  And not all power conditioners are the same, some work well, some don't.  Experimentation may be necessary.


----------



## ColtMrFire

The HD800 is a ruthless taskmaster.  It will force you to deal with any issues in your chain or punish your ears.  It can take time, money and experimentation to find the right mix, but once you do the rewards are beyond belief.


----------



## ColtMrFire

rcbintn said:


> I think the HD800 treble is somewhat a personal thing.  It's also very dependent on the DAC & amp pairing.
> 
> My HD800 sounded bright until I hit on the current rig - GMB and Bryston BHA-1.  That rig works well w/ the HD800, although, for some music, I switch the BHA-1 to low-gain mode.  The most tamed-treble rig I've heard w/ the HD800 was the Yggy / WA5 that was uber smooth and not treble-bright at all.  IMO, most rigs without enough power will result in a bright HD800 sound.  Can't just run these HP's from a cell phone.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 My next amp is going to be the Byrston.  I have heard nothing but amazing things about the pairing.


----------



## RCBinTN

coltmrfire said:


> My next amp is going to be the Byrston.  I have heard nothing but amazing things about the pairing.


 
  
 I like the Bryston a lot - have kept it as my main amp now for a couple of years.  It's great with the HD800...plenty of power but not overly bright for a SS amp, especially when paired with a good DAC like the GMB (or Yggy).  It has the guts to drive the HD800 in a proper way.  Build quality is solid as a rock, has both SE and balanced outputs, and a 20-yr warranty.  IMO, you will be happy with this amp.  Enjoy your music!
  
 Cheers -
 RCB
  
 ps. Since the BHA-1 has quite a bit of power, it may not be ideal for low-impedance planar-magnetic HP's.  I do use it for my planars - Ether Flow and LCD-X - but with those cans the amp is at the low end of it's capability.  The excellent volume control makes this possible, but the amp is better with the HD800. FWIW


----------



## floppiness

Just finished painting an old pair of HD800's, wanted white to match my system. I think painting is a good idea when they have scuffs and scratches cause that gray paint flakes off super easy.


----------



## Galm

coltmrfire said:


> For me the peak is not a problem when the headphone is paired with an appropriate amp, smooth DAC and supplied *clean AC power*.  If you go back several posts we talk about the power issue.  From my own experience the power issue was the most important in taking care of any top end problems (harshness, sibilance, fatigue), and the extremely sensitive nature of the headphone exacerbates dirty power which manifests in the treble regions from what I've experienced.  Once I took care of the power, I had zero problems with any of these issues.  YMMV depending on your ears.  And not all power conditioners are the same, some work well, some don't.  Experimentation may be necessary.


 
 I read it.  Don't have control over that at my apartment right now, can't go changing outlets.  
  
 If this is truly the case, I'd love to see some frequency measurements with the cleaner power.  I've never seen a frequency response greatly differ for the HD800s from what I've expected.


----------



## ColtMrFire

galm said:


> I read it.  Don't have control over that at my apartment right now, can't go changing outlets.
> 
> If this is truly the case, I'd love to see some frequency measurements with the cleaner power.  I've never seen a frequency response greatly differ for the HD800s from what I've expected.


 
  
 I actually did not change any outlets.  That's not really necessary, but whatever works.  I got a Belkin PureAV PF60, which can be used in a house or apartment. 
  
 I'm not even sure how harshness shows up in a FR chart, the FR of the headphone did not change, just the deficiencies in my system which were being exacerbated by the transparent nature of the 800.  No harshness or fatigue (and other SQ improvements) are all the proof I need.  I think this headphone is blamed far more than it deserves... it is only giving one an honest presenation of their entire chain.  In that sense it is easy to dismiss it since it can be difficult to get the synergy right.  IMO all that's required is a smooth DAC, an amp that's not too bright, and clean AC power.


----------



## Galm

coltmrfire said:


> I actually did not change any outlets.  That's not really necessary, but whatever works.  I got a Belkin PureAV PF60, which can be used in a house or apartment.
> 
> I'm not even sure how harshness shows up in a FR chart, the FR of the headphone did not change, just the deficiencies in my system which were being exacerbated by the transparent nature of the 800.  No harshness or fatigue (and other SQ improvements) are all the proof I need.  I think this headphone is blamed far more than it deserves... it is only giving one an honest presenation of their entire chain.  In that sense it is easy to dismiss it since it can be difficult to get the synergy right.  IMO all that's required is a smooth DAC, an amp that's not too bright, and clean AC power.


 
 huh _shrug_
  
 I dunno, I'm not needing to do that, as I'm quite happy with my chain and overall sound signature.  While I thought it was harsh and bright at first, the mod plus my WA7 with CBS Hytrons and Cayin iDac give it a warmer and more musical sound that I quite enjoy.  It's still a little lighter on the base than I enjoy for rock music, but I agree it sounds fantastic on acoustical genres.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Whatever works.


----------



## twiceboss

HD800 hands down the best clarity I can get so far.
  
 Initially a basshead, but now... the mids and details are actually delicious too. Try it. No regret


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I think I'd give the edge to Utopia, K1000, and 009, but for the money, it's best-in-class.


----------



## LugBug1

I've always been one for having clean power, makes sense to me. You don't have to spend much either. I would never plug expensive well made equipment that has been designed to keep a signal as clean as possible, into a cheap crappy mains adapter. Think I paid as little as £30 ($45) for one of my mains conditioners. If anything you are adding extra protection for your equipment.
  
 On the subject of the treble - which is always going to be a polarizing subject with these headphones and there is no getting away from it. We all hear differently and we all have different sensitivities towards treble. I get more fatigue from the HD600's lower treble peak than I do from either the HD800 or HD700. Different ears have different hearing. 
  
 Theres really not much if anything I'd change about the HD800 - seriously! I don't want more bass, I think it is clear, perfectly balanced and extends into the sub bass region naturally. The mids are as clean as anything I've heard. The treble is clean, well integrated and extends enough to bring out little sparkly triangles in complex orchestral music naturally without spotlighting them. Having said that, If a recording has been mixed with added brightness the HD800 will not mask it, and it will no doubt cause you fatigue - same with older harsh recordings. Now I'm not going to argue with the FR as I see the pesky 6 khz peak the same as anyone else. And there has been a lot of focus on this subject and rightly so! This peak does cause problems for a lot of ears. Luckily we have some clever folks on here who have took the time to fix (bandage) the little "sore point"  But for me, the peak in the treble has never been an issue - Infact if I wasn't a member of headfi it would never have even entered my conscience.


----------



## ColtMrFire

It's interesting because reading over the initial reviews of the 800 on this forum (and there were quite a few) when it first came out, almost no one talked about or had a problem with the treble, in fact most of them seemed to think it was totally smooth and fatigue free.  It was as if the problem didn't even exist.  Later you started hearing a few complaints from others, then the narrative seemed to shift to the headphone having this problem inherently, then it became almost like a self fulfilling prophecy, with new buyers expecting it to be a problem and sure enough it became a problem... I'm not saying people were making things up, not at all, but I know confirmation bias is powerful and a real thing, and works both ways.  This is just something I've observed and find fascinating about the initial reviews vs. later ones.


----------



## Sorrodje

HD800 tonal issues are there . Mainly Slight lack of bass extension and impact compared to the best ( HE-6 for example) , dipped high mids and a treble emphasis especially around 2 or 3 spots.  those issues can have more or less significant effect depending on the music we're listening to. 
  
 I recently bought a RME ADI2 pro soundcard that offers ( amongst a lot of other features ) a 5 bands parametric EQ so I'm playing with it and listened to a lot of sweep tones to detect by ears what  seems to need a fix . Once properly EQed , benefits are really obvious. I applied very little corrections to find my sweet spot and the most important to my ears is to fix a significant Dip around 4khz . my SDR mod already fixed the 6khz peak so I didn't need a lot of work on that . Critical area to my ears is the 4-,5,5khz range ( let's say I cut 4 db around 5,3 khz and add 4 db around 4khz and I take care to not add or cut to much db below and above this range ). 3 or 4 db added between 20/70hz add a nice heft as well. I also try to fix a higher peak around 10Khz I clearly hear in sweep tones but which does not affect much how music sounds.  
  
 Once my Senn EQed as mentionned, i did a lot of listenings and it confirmed my previous experience. Applied EQ makes very significant difference for the music I struggled to appreciate with my Senn and not so much ( but still significant) for music I was already enjoying a lot. I didn't detect any drawback yet but I really tried to be careful with EQ and to not apply drastic change and try to make my HD800 sounds like another headphone. More interesting experience : Even after EQ applied, mMy amplifier Stratus still makes sense and makes a difference compared to the very decent amplifier embedded in the RME  
  
 Sure I could live happily without those small tonal fixes but now I had a taste of what EQ brings to the table, there will be not return.
  
 Except tonal issues , the Senn is a bit slow and grey compared to something Like Stax Omegas or A focal Utopia . There's no way to fix that. Only senn can do it and release a new faster HD800. Hopefully soon.  But, to my ears , this relatively slow nature of the HD800 is not at all a dealbreaker. I know people who are focused on and I can get why. fortunately there're a lot of good headphones that offer sometimes something better than the HD800 but a lot of downsides as well.  Nothing new under the sun.


----------



## ColtMrFire

sorrodje said:


> HD800 tonal issues are there.


 
  
 For certain people yes, but I love the stock configuration.  Everyone has different priorities.


----------



## MattTCG

sorrodje said:


> HD800 tonal issues are there . Mainly Slight lack of bass extension and impact compared to the best ( HE-6 for example) , dipped high mids and a treble emphasis especially around 2 or 3 spots.  those issues can have more or less significant effect depending on the music we're listening to.
> 
> I recently bought a RME ADI2 pro soundcard that offers ( amongst a lot of other features ) a 5 bands parametric EQ so I'm playing with it and listened to a lot of sweep tones to detect by ears what  seems to need a fix . Once properly EQed , benefits are really obvious. I applied very little corrections to find my sweet spot and the most important to my ears is to fix a significant Dip around 4khz . my SDR mod already fixed the 6khz peak so I didn't need a lot of work on that . Critical area to my ears is the 4-,5,5khz range ( let's say I cut 4 db around 5,3 khz and add 4 db around 4khz and I take care to not add or cut to much db below and above this range ). 3 or 4 db added between 20/70hz add a nice heft as well. I also try to fix a higher peak around 10Khz I clearly hear in sweep tones but which does not affect much how music sounds.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Gentle EQ done correctly can certainly take the hd800 to the next level both from a performance and enjoyment perspective. I fought EQ for years but now rely on it to make small tonal changes to all my headphones. 
  
 I guess that I get your point about the hd800 being "slow." Even compared to my Ether Flow open, it's obvious that the Flow is quicker with better decay of notes. The sound just emerges instantly from a very black background. Stats will of course be even faster.


----------



## Sorrodje

@MattTCG : yea, 8 years old driver. Shows its age compared to the new focals for example. But those focals exhibit other issues.  and despite the slowness, i never found a headphone i prefer to my HD800. 
  
@ColtMrFire :  Even if those issues don't bother you, denying them makes no sense.  I never heard a 100% perfect headphone. Only headphones with issues I can live with or not.


----------



## ColtMrFire

sorrodje said:


> @ColtMrFire :  Even if those issues don't bother you, denying them makes no sense.  I never heard a 100% perfect headphone. Only headphones with issues I can live with or not.


 
  
 You said "tonal issues".  They are only "issues" for certain people.  An issue is something that needs fixing.  For certain people there is nothing they want fixed, hence no issue.  This is all very subjective.  I also never claimed the HD800 was perfect.


----------



## LugBug1

coltmrfire said:


> You said "tonal issues".  They are only "issues" for certain people.  An issue is something that needs fixing.  For certain people there is nothing they want fixed, hence no issue.  This is all very subjective.  I also never claimed the HD800 was perfect.


 
 Have to agree with this. Its the same on other threads at the mo. Folk trying to fix the HD650's veil...
  
 It is of course subjective, one mans cheese is another man's turnip (just made that one up... Can you tell?). But an issue is only an issue if it's an issue to you! I'm not going to say the HD800 is perfect. Perfection doesn't exist for a start. But I can honestly say there is nothing I'd change about the sound. I used to do a lot of E'Qing in the passed both digital and analogue - It can do wonders! But I hear no need for the HD800. Little things like the dip at around 3-4khz for example help the sound to be more natural to my ears. When these frequencies are flat or slightly etched, thats where you start getting nasalness (new word folks). Even the mighty HD600 has this at a very small level. The K701 - Grado's are the kings of nasalness   No such nasal problems with the HD800 or the HD700 for that matter (although the HD700 could actually do with a little lift in this area.) 
  
 In my experience "a flat line is only good for mixing - Not for hifi listening..." Quote of the year!!


----------



## Sorrodje

In my opinion,  "tonal issues" are facts and they aren't relative to my tastes or preferences.  a good chunck of "issues" is sometimes the thing that make us love something or someone  ..
  
  
 At least, it's what my wife explained me when sh look at my belly. ahem.


----------



## ColtMrFire

A headphone is like a Rorschach test for the ears.


----------



## MWSVette

coltmrfire said:


> A headphone is like a Rorschach test for the ears.


 

 I cannot agree with this statement enough.
  
 We are each different in what we sound hear and how we then interpret that sound...


----------



## LugBug1

sorrodje said:


> In my opinion,  "tonal issues" are facts and they aren't relative to my tastes or preferences.  a good chunck of "issues" is sometimes the thing that make us love something or someone  ..
> 
> 
> At least, it's what my wife explained me when sh look at my belly. ahem.


 





  
  
 Well since you put it like that.. My wife is one big issue! But would I change her though... Hmm (maybe a few tweeks wouldn't go a miss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## LugBug1

coltmrfire said:


> A headphone is like a Rorschach test for the ears.


 
  
  


mwsvette said:


> I cannot agree with this statement enough.
> 
> We are each different in what we sound hear and how we then interpret that sound...


 
 While I can kind of understand the analogy... The headphone is still a tool for us to enjoy music. Not a tool to decipher our response to FR in respect to what is the ultimate sound quality. One man's cheese etc..
  
 I still stand by; we judge a headphone by all other headphones. There is no ultimate "idea" of a headphone in Plato terms. And we must refrain from using words such as "facts" (like the lovely Sorrodje just has) when we are talking about subjective opinions in SQ. Yes it's a "fact" (in relevant terms) that there is a 6k peak. But there is no "fact" that it is wrongly there and affects the sound negatively. The "issue" is therefore purely subjective.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Well said.


----------



## LugBug1

I think we can all agree tis a beautiful looking machine. (just took this in rare UK sunshine


----------



## chucky27

Hi,

 I've just joined the HD800 club (good deal on 1year used pair with SDR mod). Have couple of questions:
 1) Earpads: cleaned and disinfected them, fabric is in very good condition, but I can't tell if the foam is too compressed or not. Can somebody please measure the pad thickness, i would be very grateful.
 2) Soundstage: while extra details are there (compared to my HD650), soundstage improvement is there too, but not even remotely to the extent that is usually talked about (maybe i was expecting too much...). I use DAC-19 (DSPv7) and Meier Corda Jazz-FF. Can it be and upstream gear 'issue' or just the way my ears\brain work?

 Thanks


----------



## Sanctuary

> Originally Posted by *chucky27* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 2) Soundstage: while extra details are there (compared to my HD650), soundstage improvement is there too, *but not even remotely to the extent that is usually talked about* (maybe i was expecting too much...). I use DAC-19 (DSPv7) and Meier Corda Jazz-FF. Can it be and upstream gear 'issue' or just the way my ears\brain work?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Agreed, and yet another example as to why you should always take what you read on the internet with a huge grain of salt, _especially_ hype.  Do they seem to project outward more than a closed-back pair of headphones?  Sure, but they aren't really this mind-blowing, night and day difference in spaciousness compared to pretty much any open pair that so many reviews, and especially this site would have you believe.  While they might technically be one of the headphones, if not _the _headphones with the widest soundstage, it's kind of like comparing a 9.0 with a 9.5. 
  
 Although what material you're listening to seems to make a pretty large impact too.  Despite what many claim, classical or jazz doesn't make me feel like I am in a "live room", nor are the instruments separated more than what they are on my DT880s or Alpha Dogs.  Some acoustic stuff sounds slightly more speaker/surround like, if only slightly.  Movies on the other hand are _noticeably_ more speaker like.  That also happens to be the main reason I picked these up anyway, aside from simple curiosity.


----------



## LugBug1

sanctuary said:


> Agreed, and yet another example as to why you should always take what you read on the internet with a huge grain of salt, _especially_ hype.  Do they seem to project outward more than a closed-back pair of headphones?  Sure, but they aren't really this mind-blowing, night and day difference in spaciousness compared to pretty much any open pair that so many reviews, and especially this site would have you believe.  *While they might technically be one of the headphones, if not the headphones with the widest soundstage, it's kind of like comparing a 9.0 with a 9.5. *
> 
> Although what material you're listening to seems to make a pretty large impact too.  Despite what many claim, classical or jazz doesn't make me feel like I am in a "live room", nor are the instruments separated more than what they are on my DT880s or Alpha Dogs.  Some acoustic stuff sounds slightly more speaker/surround like, if only slightly.  Movies on the other hand are _noticeably_ more speaker like.  That also happens to be the main reason I picked these up anyway, aside from simple curiosity.


 
 At the end of the day we are only talking about headphones... So in that respect I suppose it's up to the individual how they let their imagination run. 
  
 I personally find the HD800 night and day compared to the HD650 (which is the headphone the poster has upgraded from) Bit like going from a classic Ford to a Bentley. But anyone only wanting to get from A to B is probably not going to appreciate the difference. Sound quality is a learned experience like anything. Sure we all have our tastes and preferences that are instant - but the whole point of sites such as Head-fi is to discuss the sound quality and all things related. As time goes on you can actually learn a lot. I've learned a lot about sound quality and the reproduction of it, this has helped me build systems to cater for my preferences.
 Now anyone expecting a headphone's soundstage to sound like a pair of speakers in their room is realistically expecting a bit too much. If a headphone has been described as having a speaker-like presentation or soundstage, then it has to be taken within relevance to headphone listening and the expectations involved, naturally? I would have thought this would be common sense..
  
 Soundstage size is an important part of a headphone and no-one on here with any experience is going to agree that they are all pretty much the same size. Because they are not. And to say the HD800 has only 0.5 larger soundstage over the HD650 is absurd my friend. I'm sorry! But it is...


----------



## chucky27

Thanks for for the feedback guys,

 It's not that i find the differences between 650 and 800 small or smth, it was only related too my (seemingly overhyped) expectation of soundstage differences. Detail, speed and instrument separation is clearly better than 650. Now i've listened a bit more and on some material soundstage improvement is much more apparent and on some it's very minimal. Now with some non-heavy EQing they do shine.

 Can anyone there respond to the earpad thickness issue (how thick is your earpad now, how fast does it usually flatten, does it affect sound much?)


----------



## LugBug1

chucky27 said:


> Thanks for for the feedback guys,
> 
> It's not that i find the differences between 650 and 800 small or smth, it was only related too my (seemingly overhyped) expectation of soundstage differences. Detail, speed and instrument separation is clearly better than 650. Now i've listened a bit more and on some material soundstage improvement is much more apparent and on some it's very minimal. Now with some non-heavy EQing they do shine.
> 
> Can anyone there respond to the earpad thickness issue (how thick is your earpad now, how fast does it usually flatten, does it affect sound much?)


 
 My last pair of HD800 had some pad wear.. But to be honest I don't think it makes much difference sound wise as they are pretty flat when they are new. Only comfort can change if they are very worn down. Maybe if you aren't getting any seal around your face this could possibly cause sound changes though? Dunno.
  
 Yes give them time. Ears and brain need adjustment time to make sense of the new sound world. Seriously give them at least a week before you make your mind up 
  
 Congrats anyway! And welcome to the high end club


----------



## Sanctuary

lugbug1 said:


> At the end of the day we are only talking about headphones... So in that respect I suppose it's up to the individual how they let their imagination run.
> 
> I personally find the HD800 night and day compared to the HD650 (which is the headphone the poster has upgraded from) Bit like going from a classic Ford to a Bentley. But anyone only wanting to get from A to B is probably not going to appreciate the difference. Sound quality is a learned experience like anything. Sure we all have our tastes and preferences that are instant - but the whole point of sites such as Head-fi is to discuss the sound quality and all things related. As time goes on you can actually learn a lot. I've learned a lot about sound quality and the reproduction of it, this has helped me build systems to cater for my preferences.
> Now anyone expecting a headphone's soundstage to sound like a pair of speakers in their room is realistically expecting a bit too much. If a headphone has been described as having a speaker-like presentation or soundstage, then it has to be taken within relevance to headphone listening and the expectations involved, naturally? I would have thought this would be common sense..
> ...


 
 "Night and Day" on the internet is usually hyperbolic code for "I notice _a_ difference".  All of this stuff is subjective anyway after a point, and is also something that has not only already been stated ad nauseam, but too one would think would be common sense.  There's also a lot of confirmation bias, purchase justification as well as simply adjusting to _a different sound _that skews what's being said about any number of audio equipment opinions.  It's one thing to talk about sonic differences, but it goes off the rails into absurdity when someone starts talking like a pretentious wine taster; which a great many do.
  
 This isn't some veiled attempt to discredit the HD800s of being a "top tier" headphone, it's just that for years now their legendary status fed upon itself and each new telling of the myth grew bigger than the last.  Plus, there are a lot more "top tier" headphones now that are very competitive in some way or another with them than when they were first released.


----------



## LugBug1

sanctuary said:


> "Night and Day" on the internet is usually hyperbolic code for "I notice _a_ difference".  All of this stuff is subjective anyway after a point, and is also something that has not only already been stated ad nauseam, but too one would think would be common sense.  There's also a lot of confirmation bias, purchase justification as well as simply adjusting to _a different sound _that skews what's being said about any number of audio equipment opinions.  It's one thing to talk about sonic differences, but it goes off the rails into absurdity when someone starts talking like a pretentious wine taster; which a great many do.
> 
> This isn't some veiled attempt to discredit the HD800s of being a "top tier" headphone, it's just that for years now their legendary status fed upon itself and each new telling of the myth grew bigger than the last.  Plus, there are a lot more "top tier" headphones now that are very competitive in some way or another with them than when they were first released.


 
 Yes I hear what you are saying... although I must say it is coming across a little cynical? I'm also aware that they have (and always have had) healthy competition.. Not sure what your point is. Either way I respect your opinion that they have sometimes been hyperboled - most good headphones are on here. But again, it comes down to a little sensibility of realism how many grains of salt you take!


----------



## Mahdi8

Has anyone tried these hd800 pads from ebay? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Soft-Ear-Pads-Earpads-Cushions-For-Sennheiser-HD800-HD800S-Headphone-Replacement-/142355574716?hash=item21250dafbc:g:j4MAAOSwuspY-HzN I know hard to get a good third party pads but wonder if anyone tried these yet


----------



## icebear

If they don't work it's obviously not a huge loss, let us know how you get them attached to the HD800.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I know forking out the dough for the orig. Sennheiser pads needs a tough grab of the wallet, as it might be trying to hide somewhere but honestly getting a 1.5k $ headphone, possibly investing in custom cables, a dedicated headphone amp and skimping at the pads and go for some $10 pads from China?


----------



## Mahdi8

good point 


icebear said:


> If they don't work it's obviously not a huge loss, let us know how you get them attached to the HD800.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## johnjen

chucky27 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've just joined the HD800 club (good deal on 1year used pair with SDR mod). Have couple of questions:
> 1) Earpads: cleaned and disinfected them, fabric is in very good condition, but I can't tell if the foam is too compressed or not. Can somebody please measure the pad thickness, i would be very grateful.
> ...


 
 I have a new set of pads that I measured with these results…
 ≈15-16mm depending upon where you measure them.
  
 My very old and in need of being replaced set measure at 11-15mm
  
 800's are VERY reflective of the signal being sent them.
 This includes the source of the signal, as well as the electronics that feed that source to them.
  
 They, in and of themselves, won't 'make' the sounstage bigger or better etc, but they will reflect the degree of the soundstage of the source/system that is sent to them.
  
 And as the quality of that signal improves, the 800's will reflect that back to you as well.
  
 JJ


----------



## twiceboss

chucky27 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've just joined the HD800 club (good deal on 1year used pair with SDR mod). Have couple of questions:
> 1) Earpads: cleaned and disinfected them, fabric is in very good condition, but I can't tell if the foam is too compressed or not. Can somebody please measure the pad thickness, i would be very grateful.
> ...


 
 How long did you listen to HD800 to compare with 650?
  
 i bet it is just 1 song impression. HD650 and HD800 have a different signature which i can find really different. It is just can't grab the signature in your mind yet. Whenever i try HD650, i feel it is very very laid back and the soundstage is so so small. That happens when your mind adjusted with HD800 signature, judge the headphones at least after a week. Not about burn in (no comment in this), but your mind. Headphones are not like speaker which can be different by first impression. Headphones are directly on your ears which needs some times to get used to. Feel free to give your impression. This is just my opinion. So, i hope u can give ur 1 week impression soon, and soon 1 month, 1 year... etc.


----------



## chucky27

mahdi8 said:


> Has anyone tried these hd800 pads from ebay? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Soft-Ear-Pads-Earpads-Cushions-For-Sennheiser-HD800-HD800S-Headphone-Replacement-/142355574716?hash=item21250dafbc:g:j4MAAOSwuspY-HzN I know hard to get a good third party pads but wonder if anyone tried these yet


 


 Heh, I ordered these yesterday (just to see how close they can come to the original, will buy originals anyway) and wanted to ask the same question. Delivery estimation: end of May -  end of June. Can do the small review on them once they arrive, if anyone is interested.


----------



## johnjen

Not that I've looked for them, but these are the 1st I've seen of any aftermarket pads for 800's.
  
 And I'm gunna order up a set as well to compare to my new set I just got from Sennheiser.
  
 I have been wondering when the aftermarket would start to make these.
 I mean really, 800's are a TotL HP that have been around for quite a few years now and no one seems to have jumped on this before now.
 Curious.
  
 JJ


----------



## Fearless1

I want to hear all about those pads when one of you 



Spoiler



Guinea pigs


 gentleman receive them!


----------



## chucky27

johnjen said:


> I have a new set of pads that I measured with these results…
> ≈15-16mm depending upon where you measure them.
> 
> My very old and in need of being replaced set measure at 11-15mm
> ...



Thanks for the measurements,
My pads are ~11mm at the thickest point (measured without taking them off), so it looks like ill be needing new ones soon.


----------



## deserat

chucky27 said:


> I've just joined the HD800 club (good deal on 1year used pair with SDR mod). Have couple of questions:
> 1) Earpads: cleaned and disinfected them, fabric is in very good condition, but I can't tell if the foam is too compressed or not. Can somebody please measure the pad thickness, i would be very grateful.
> 2) Soundstage: while extra details are there (compared to my HD650), soundstage improvement is there too, but not even remotely to the extent that is usually talked about (maybe i was expecting too much...). I use DAC-19 (DSPv7) and Meier Corda Jazz-FF. Can it be and upstream gear 'issue' or just the way my ears\brain work?



Welcome to the HD800 club.  When I first got mine I wasn't blown away either... they weren't that much better than the HD600 or HE560 I already had.  It took awhile for me casually listening and the occasional 'oh wow'  for me to really start enjoying them.  Don't A/B, you're ears like your eyes, adjust to their surroundings, it takes a little time. I'd recommend listening to just the HD800 for a few days then going back to the HD650... I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. 

The other thing I've found is that source matters more than with any other headphone I've ever owned.  The HD6xx series are good headphones but there is a point at which they stop scaling. I didn't realize this until I built my Mainline Amp, listening to it with the HD600's was like listening to a really good HD600, listening with the HD800 is like listening to a completely different headphone. A headphone with much more muchness. I had it in the office and some people who were animate that they didn't like the HD800 just stood there mouth agape and muttering "wow"...

I guess my point is, if you're feeling a bit of buyers remorse... you can feel secure that the HD800 will grow with you over time. 

Will measure the pads when i get home tonight if nobody else has.... though I can't imagine they are overly compressed... they are already quite thin.


----------



## chucky27

deserat said:


> Welcome to the HD800 club.  When I first got mine I wasn't blown away either... they weren't that much better than the HD600 or HE560 I already had.  It took awhile for me casually listening and the occasional 'oh wow'  for me to really start enjoying them.  Don't A/B, you're ears like your eyes, adjust to their surroundings, it takes a little time. I'd recommend listening to just the HD800 for a few days then going back to the HD650... I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
> ....



I'm definitely not feeling the buyer's remorse. It completely replaced HD650 as main HP. Already had some 'oh wow' moments esp. with acoustic instrument performances ). Works for almost all of my music. My soundstage 'issue' with it was partly music material-related and partly over-expectation. So with my current setup i'm a happy hippo for now and just waiting for Jan Meier to release some new top amp, if that day ever comes)


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Not sure why we're comparing HD800 to HD650; it's apples and hoola hoops. HD800 is a reference can. HD650 is a highly colored euphonic can. Compare HD650 to TH900, to LCD-2, perhaps to the new cheap Mr Speakers thing. HD800 should be compared to SR009, Ether E, Utopia, HE-6, or my own favored K1000.


----------



## DavidA

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Not sure why we're comparing HD800 to HD650; it's apples and hoola hoops. HD800 is a reference can. HD650 is a highly colored euphonic can. Compare HD650 to TH900, to LCD-2, perhaps to the new cheap Mr Speakers thing. HD800 should be compared to SR009, Ether E, Utopia, HE-6, or my own favored K1000.



A little narrow minded but its your opinion, the genre of choice needs to be also considered to the choice of headphone.  And my SR009 while a similar to the HD800 was not a comparison I would make since they are different enough I wouldn't consider them in the same sound signature range.  Just my 2 cents


----------



## protoss

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Not sure why we're comparing HD800 to HD650; it's apples and hoola hoops. HD800 is a reference can. HD650 is a highly colored euphonic can. Compare HD650 to TH900, to LCD-2, perhaps to the new cheap Mr Speakers thing. HD800 should be compared to SR009, Ether E, Utopia, HE-6, or my own favored K1000.



Bold post!

With the right modding and amp/dac, HD800 is pretty much the only headphone you need. it get close to being a perfection status.


----------



## protoss

Mahdi8 said:


> Has anyone tried these hd800 pads from ebay? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Soft-Ear...574716?hash=item21250dafbc:g:j4MAAOSwuspY-HzN I know hard to get a good third party pads but wonder if anyone tried these yet




Yes bought 5 of them! lol $50.00. it will last me 50 years hopefully


----------



## chucky27

protoss said:


> Yes bought 5 of them! lol $50.00. it will last me 50 years hopefully



did you just order them or already have them?


----------



## protoss

chucky27 said:


> did you just order them or already have them?


have. its okay. a fake version of the real deal. I dont care. it gets the damn job done!!!


----------



## chucky27

protoss said:


> have. its okay. a fake version of the real deal. I dont care. it gets the damn job done!!!


)) how fake is it? how's the material, how's the foam? )))


----------



## protoss

chucky27 said:


> )) how fake is it? how's the material, how's the foam? )))


Hard to say. Its a good fake. Dude its only $10 ! what can you expect? Just dont buy that McDonald Happy meal today and buy the pads. 

Just get one. You understand.

I got 5 and might order more! LMAO!


----------



## RCBinTN (Apr 29, 2017)

Here's a great thread started by David Mahler a few years ago.  I often reference his reviews of specific HPs. Specifically, I think his review of the HD800 is very interesting and still applies today.  He also reviews the HD650.

I recommend y'all check it out. Just FWIW.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared.634201/

ps. It seems the hyperlinks in David's review aren't working, I let the admins know about it.  You'll need to scroll to the specific HP reviews.
pps.  When you scroll down, the HD650 are HP #21 and the HD800 are #6.

Happy listening!
RCB


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I find it interesting how much opinion has changed since he reviewed HD800. He declares it the neutrality KING. People give it so much schiit for the 6khz spike. "Not neutral!" "Sibilant!" For classical music, it's a pretty on the money. And tbh reproducing classical music is exceptionally difficult to do well; I'm delighted Sennheiser cared enough to design a flagship can that (at least without mods) shines at this genre so much more than others. Orpheus 1 and 2 are both much more "neutral" in terms of not having "bothersome" (to some) treble and "rolled off" (to many of those same people) bass.


----------



## TMRaven

HD650 is considerably more neutral than the HD800.


----------



## twiceboss

what's the next upgrade or same league if i want the clarity of hd800 but with smaller soundstage. I want it to be on my face. The mids. also able to eq to bass like hd800 can do. Hd800 turns out a good bassy headphone with eq.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff (Apr 30, 2017)

He6? Utopia? Forthcoming ether e? Sr009?


----------



## twiceboss

That's  really big gap price. I hope with this range. $700 below used.


----------



## John Q Lin

HE 500


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Same league? Doubtful...how about HD800 with really worn pads? Or no pads at all? That'll put it right in your face.


----------



## twiceboss

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Same league? Doubtful...how about HD800 with really worn pads? Or no pads at all? That'll put it right in your face.


not gonna happen...


----------



## Thenewguy007

protoss said:


> Hard to say. Its a good fake. Dude its only $10 ! what can you expect? Just dont buy that McDonald Happy meal today and buy the pads.
> 
> Just get one. You understand.
> 
> I got 5 and might order more! LMAO!




Do they change the sound signature compared to the genuine one? 
I know the pad material won't be alcantara, but do you feel the foam is of a different density? Softer, thicker about the same?


----------



## protoss

Thenewguy007 said:


> Do they change the sound signature compared to the genuine one?
> I know the pad material won't be alcantara, but do you feel the foam is of a different density? Softer, thicker about the same?



Hard to say because,

I fully modded my HD800. With Superdupont and Anaxilus Mod and personal damping. I also painted my HD800. Just glimpse at my avatar. 

The pads are decent. soft. nice. I like. Sounds quality hard to say because i Mod the hell out of my cans. It just felt pads got fresher for me. Everything else was the same. Maybe the wrong guy to ask. You need to ask a stock HD800 person. 

All i could say is spend $10+ taxes and you be most likely be happy.

BTW I have 5 and planing to order more. sooooo


----------



## RCBinTN (May 1, 2017)

Hi HD800 Fans,

I've had a journey to find the right upstream rig for the HD800.  Yes, I like the cans that much! 
It's been a chore but, finally, a satisfying journey.  Along the way, I heard the HD800 with many different rigs...

Owned or currently own:
 - BiFrost/Asgard2 - too bright and harsh, little bass experience
 - Gungnir/Mjolnir1 - better bass and mids, but the treble still too bright
 - GMB/Bryston BHA-1 - much better, great bass, not overly bright, still depends somewhat on the music (the Bryston has adjustable gain that tames the brighter music)

Heard at a Nashville HP meet:
 - Yggy/Ragnarok - super resolving, deep bass, not bright (better than my GMB/BHA-1 by a bit)
 - Yggy/Woo WA5 - tame, super resolving, mellow sound - much different than the SS amp sound

As David Mahler wrote, the HD800 are super-dependent on the upstream rig.  I'm happy where I'm at, but the WA5 amp makes the HD800 sound really good!

FYI,
RCB

ps. I've not modded my HD800 at all.  I heard the HD800S and didn't like them - too veiled - IMO that takes away the best part of the HD800 - being the super midrange and treble.  YMMV.


----------



## protoss

RCBinTN said:


> Hi HD800 Fans,
> 
> I've had a journey to find the right upstream rig for the HD800.  Yes, I like the cans that much!
> It's been a chore but, finally, a satisfying journey.  Along the way, I heard the HD800 with many different rigs...
> ...



Sir you are not alone. I tell you a little secret. HD800 is the greatest headphone created. Hands down. dont need anything else. 

Violectric Audio HPA V200
Grace Design m920
benchmark dac2 

Those are the three dac/amps i recommend with the HD800.


----------



## Thenewguy007

protoss said:


> Hard to say because,
> 
> I fully modded my HD800. With Superdupont and Anaxilus Mod and personal damping. I also painted my HD800. Just glimpse at my avatar.
> 
> ...




How long did it take to ship from China? I had ship times for small stuff take as long as 2 months.


----------



## twiceboss

what's the next affordable upgrade after having mojo as a dac/amp? prefer finding used. Cheaper


----------



## protoss

Thenewguy007 said:


> How long did it take to ship from China? I had ship times for small stuff take as long as 2 months.



I am not sure where you from. Im from Canada. It took three weeks. 

This is where i went :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Soft-Fo...01c6c75&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=6&sd=142363766792

or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Soft-Foam-H...8369935&pid=100623&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=152517803202

Cheers


----------



## protoss (May 1, 2017)

Thenewguy007 said:


> How long did it take to ship from China? I had ship times for small stuff take as long as 2 months.




Also want to give you this stuff:

This is my freaky HD800: I have all this inside and outside my HD800   

http://www.ebay.com/itm/sennheiser-...803834?hash=item2382a67aba:g:cEUAAOSw8gVX~SoN

and

http://www.ebay.com/itm/sennheiser-...157167?hash=item2382bb212f:g:LKoAAOSwdIFX0ECu

and

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Soft-Foam-Ear-Pads-Earpads-Cushion-For-Sennheiser-HD800-HD800S-Headphone/152517803202?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=2&asc=40130&meid=c3a097cc0a3c45a09e6b156c201c6c75&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=6&sd=142363766792

and







I use Primer + Candy red + Matt black

and

special damping not telling 

and

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZY-HiFi-Cab...678900?hash=item1a18f23fb4:g:M5IAAOSw6n5XqYIJ

and

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hand-Woven-...d4c3856&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=6&sd=381805914844

cheers


----------



## protoss

Thenewguy007 said:


> How long did it take to ship from China? I had ship times for small stuff take as long as 2 months.




hope you enjoy


----------



## Petyot

twiceboss said:


> what's the next upgrade or same league if i want the clarity of hd800 but with smaller soundstage. I want it to be on my face. The mids. also able to eq to bass like hd800 can do. Hd800 turns out a good bassy headphone with eq.



A used Stax SRM-3100! Same clarity, excellent bass, beautiful mids but a smaller soundstage


----------



## twiceboss

Petyot said:


> A used Stax SRM-3100! Same clarity, excellent bass, beautiful mids but a smaller soundstage


Nice recommendation. Wonder where i can find it. Phew


----------



## whirlwind

RCBinTN said:


> Hi HD800 Fans,
> 
> I've had a journey to find the right upstream rig for the HD800.  Yes, I like the cans that much!
> It's been a chore but, finally, a satisfying journey.  Along the way, I heard the HD800 with many different rigs...
> ...



Great post.

While I think there are many amps that drive the HD800 very well, finding the right synergy is the key.

I think the biggest mistake people make is that they just want an amp that can drive the headphones with no problem.  *Many *amps can drive these headphones , but there is much more to it than that.

Tone, taming the treble, sibilance, ect....ect...

Tubes are a wonderful way to achieve all of this for the HD800 IMHO.

It is never perfect, but I have never owned a headphone that has been this transparent to tubes.

Tubes can get pretty expensive and you can find yourself going down that rabbit hole...but with a lot of experimenting you can find wonderful sound for not to big of an expense and tube rolling is not necessary.....that being said from my experience, it is very hard not to want more and more tubes.

I understand people not wanting to go the tube route because of the expense, and that is understandable.....but being able to change the tone of the HD800 is a wonderful thing.

All this being said, I still think just getting an amp that synergizes well will make most people happy....then just enjoy and listen to your music and not your gear


----------



## johnjen

I do so find it fascinating, that the perception that an amp can 'color' the sound enough to balance out the sound signature of the 800's, still persists.
And that's not to say they can't and don't contribute to this, especially using tubes, but even SS amps are sought to 'tame' the 800's.

Amps are supposed to be neutral, and the desired compensation is usually better achieved at the source of the signal along with it's delivery, to the amp.

These days EQ does a FAR better job of getting the 800's to 'sing' and when using many of the dacs available today the results can simply be wonderful.

IOW when the 800's are fed a 'proper' signal the results can be most compelling.

JJ


----------



## Thenewguy007

protoss said:


> I am not sure where you from. Im from Canada. It took three weeks.
> 
> This is where i went :
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Soft-Foam-Ear-Pads-Earpads-Cushion-For-Sennheiser-HD800-HD800S-Headphone/152517803202?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=2&asc=40130&meid=c3a097cc0a3c45a09e6b156c201c6c75&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=6&sd=142363766792
> ...



LOL they jacked the price up to $40 since you posted it.

No way is that worth it.


----------



## protoss

Thenewguy007 said:


> LOL they jacked the price up to $40 since you posted it.
> 
> No way is that worth it.



ahahahhahahahaha ....... Dude i blame you      ....  You kept on asking me over and over again LMAO!!

THIS IS WHY I HAVE 5 already... heheheheheheehhe


----------



## twiceboss

Jizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, this SDR mode is not only a hype. It really kills the peak!
even with EDM, i cant feel the spike. Much wow!

Thanks to @Sorrodje ! well good product by him. Even packaged in a cute parcel haha


----------



## Sorrodje

Thks for the positive comments . 
Much appreciated.


----------



## Duy Le (May 3, 2017)

twiceboss said:


> Jizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, this SDR mode is not only a hype. It really kills the peak!
> even with EDM, i cant feel the spike. Much wow!
> 
> Thanks to @Sorrodje ! well good product by him. Even packaged in a cute parcel haha


I got 8 pairs for me and my friends. All of them like this mod . These make my HD800 to be the end game headphones until I can buy Utopia  .


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

I just did a youtube video of the *Questlye 600i* and the direct pairing with the *HD800*. here is the link.

 If you just want to just hear about the HD800, its toward the end of the video.


----------



## twiceboss

Duy Le said:


> I got 8 pairs for me and my friends. All of them like this mod . These make my HD800 to be the end game headphones until I can buy Utopia  .



True! for now. No headphones can beat this clarity with the soundstage. The perfect headphones for me if this clarity with punchier bass. I do eq my hd800 and the bass is really good so far. Just me sometimes want it to be punchy like my fostex which is not possible.


----------



## twiceboss

Any recommendation to upgrade my dac/amp? Currently a Mojo. What else under $1000 that will beat mojo?


----------



## MattTCG

twiceboss said:


> Any recommendation to upgrade my dac/amp? Currently a Mojo. What else under $1000 that will beat mojo?



ifi idsd black label.


----------



## twiceboss

MattTCG said:


> ifi idsd black label.


Any explanation why? How good is that?


----------



## MattTCG

twiceboss said:


> Any explanation why? How good is that?



The ability to adjust sub bass with idsd bl is a great feature. There is no quackery with the xbass control. It's actually impressively implemented with no bleed into the mids. And then the idsd overall tone just seems to play well with the hd800. There is lot's of adjustment for gain and many other features such as pre-amp which have been useful for me. I tried the mojo and thought that it was pretty good but it never got me to the same level of enjoyment when using the hd800.


----------



## Quinto (May 7, 2017)

is there still the possibility to search this thread? 

Lookin for some comments on Master11 NOS v2 pairing with the senn HD800S, anyone? THANKS!


----------



## twiceboss

MattTCG said:


> The ability to adjust sub bass with idsd bl is a great feature. There is no quackery with the xbass control. It's actually impressively implemented with no bleed into the mids. And then the idsd overall tone just seems to play well with the hd800. There is lot's of adjustment for gain and many other features such as pre-amp which have been useful for me. I tried the mojo and thought that it was pretty good but it never got me to the same level of enjoyment when using the hd800.


interesting. It is affordable too


----------



## chucky27

just got my first pair of Chinese ear pads for HD800, thickness looks almost the same as my current originals (~11mm)
softness seems the same, but only real-world usage will show how fast they start to flatten, looks very well made, considering the price. Fabric is cheaper, still ok, but later i will post my experience of how it feels on the head (and if it leaves black particles and whatnot on the skin).


----------



## twiceboss

It's hard to find this thread now. The new head fi is so weird!


----------



## twiceboss

I bought iDSD BL, get it on this Monday to pair up with my HD800sdr. Will tell you guys how it sounds.


----------



## gto88

I had reviewed  iFi iDSD BL, it sounds great with all HPs I have, incuding HD800.


----------



## twiceboss

protoss said:


> Bold post!
> 
> With the right modding and amp/dac, HD800 is pretty much the only headphone you need. it get close to being a perfection status.


Whats your mod and amp dac?


----------



## twiceboss

It is sad that i no longer can accept any less details headphones. Pretty much any 200ish dollar headphones has no these kind of details which flagship can give. Is it normal for other people too? Yes i can listen to hd650 or he400i, but just for some songs and i start to change to my hd800 or even th600 has better details than 200ish dollar.


----------



## RCBinTN

twiceboss said:


> It is sad that i no longer can accept any less details headphones. Pretty much any 200ish dollar headphones has no these kind of details which flagship can give. Is it normal for other people too? Yes i can listen to hd650 or he400i, but just for some songs and i start to change to my hd800 or even th600 has better details than 200ish dollar.



You already have the HD800, perhaps the most detail-resolving HP in its price range, maybe on the planet.  Once you get used to the HD800, most everything else will sound veiled.  IMHO.  A couple recommendations: 1) for great bass/rock music try the LCD-X. 2) for sublime jazz, especially double-bass, try the Ether Flow. Of course, those cans are +200ish dollar.


----------



## protoss

twiceboss said:


> Whats your mod and amp dac?



2 HD800"s painted by me. One Red ring and One Green ring. 1 Superdupont and Anaxilus Mod on the Green Ring and 1 Superdupont only on the Red ring. 

Dac/Amp

Grace M920
Benchmark Dac2
Violectric Audio V200

Don't ask which one is the best. I don't know. But I love my Green ring


----------



## Xeculus

ColtMrFire said:


> Thanks.  I demoed Yggy through Black Widow as well and it was sublime.  I imagine Gumby/BW is not far behind.  You are lucky to have a BW, it's an amazing amp.  The warm tone complements the HD800.



You'd think I'd be satisfied enough but here I am 5 months later about to join the Stratus waitlist...


----------



## twiceboss

So far, (3-day impression) iDSD BL makes HD800 soundstage and sound separation better compared to Mojo. The downside is mojo is slightly warmer. The Xbass is the killer feature for HD800, Xbass really works on the low end bass. The mids are still crispy even with Xbass on.


----------



## Desdinova12

So how does the HD800 handle progressive rock/metal and power metal? Does anyone have a more recent opinion here?


----------



## Peti

Funny ypu just asked that as I have listened to a shadow gallery album last night and it was just phenomenal. Chord Mojo - DNA Stratus - HD800SDR. Some albums are just mastered to favour this headphones and Legacy is one of them.so, at far as I'm concerned, it's not the genre, but more the individual mastering that makes or breaks the deal for the HD800.in my collection I would say the ...In The Woods' classic album Omnio also sounds utterly pleasing along with Faith No More's "Exit" (strictly first edition and no remastered abomination).


----------



## deserat

Desdinova12 said:


> So how does the HD800 handle progressive rock/metal and power metal? Does anyone have a more recent opinion here?



That's a pretty wide swath of music styles. The HD800 is very source dependent so it's hard to say what the HD800 does to a genre.

In my experience, roughly....

Explosions in the sky - HD800 reveals how inadequate their studio engineers/equipment are. 
Tool - Droolllll Droollll some more... HD800 turns the congested mids on Lateralus, into a cleanly separated symphonic delight. The attack, slam decay, dynamics in the percussion are amazing.
Queensryche - Not so great, this really is where the  treble spike become a problem.

Depending on what you rig is, you're mileage will vary.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

Lets see if this annoys anyone 

Playing the HD800 out of an Opus #2 DAP, goes plenty loud and sounds alright. Just not as full and controlled as out of a proper amp


----------



## KopaZ

I think I managed to cure dreaded paint chip issue permanently on HD800
driver housing ring (parts on middle) isn't covered with leather so they're still vulnerable to chips but you can put the headphones sideways, like in picture
you can bring your hd800 parts to someone who is professional in leathercrafting; I paid around$37 (40,000₩ in Korean).


----------



## twiceboss

i just managed to have both ifi micro iDSD BL and iCan SA. Okay, this is better pair for HD800 compare to mojo.


----------



## protoss

KopaZ said:


> I think I managed to cure dreaded paint chip issue permanently on HD800
> driver housing ring (parts on middle) isn't covered with leather so they're still vulnerable to chips but you can put the headphones sideways, like in picture
> you can bring your hd800 parts to someone who is professional in leathercrafting; I paid around$37 (40,000₩ in Korean).



WOW..... aaaaa sooo. Sorry to ask but what is that? Paint or ducktape strips? leathercrafting? leather strips? glue on leather on the plastic? is it soft to the touch? moist ?


----------



## protoss (May 28, 2017)

KopaZ said:


> I think I managed to cure dreaded paint chip issue permanently on HD800
> driver housing ring (parts on middle) isn't covered with leather so they're still vulnerable to chips but you can put the headphones sideways, like in picture
> you can bring your hd800 parts to someone who is professional in leathercrafting; I paid around$37 (40,000₩ in Korean).



Here is my paint job. This is a really bad picture of them. I get some sexy shots later.


----------



## protoss

Green vs Red baby


----------



## protoss (May 28, 2017)

So i did the paint. Myself

process were

Wash, sand, wash, sand wash, dry, and wash, primer, and sand, and primer, and dry, and than paint, Matt black and green and red, sand, dry, wash, repaint and dry. and wash .

LOL its a process. But look at the finish product thou


----------



## protoss

twiceboss said:


> i just managed to have both ifi micro iDSD BL and iCan SA. Okay, this is better pair for HD800 compare to mojo.



Hey buddy. You know what you should of got for that price? Its only $500.00. 

*Parasound Zdac V.2 and Headphone Amp*


https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/parasound-zdac-v2-and-headphone-amp

I should of mention this to you long time ago before you went out and bought the IDSD Bl. owell 

cheers


----------



## Windsor (May 28, 2017)

Though there are moments when I wonder how I could improve my main headphone rig, which is currently HD800/HDVD800, and when I let go of analysis about that and just listen with what I have, I'm super happy with it. The above rig reveals all of the details I could want to hear and presents every recording with great transparency. I'm curious about an alternative DAC/Amp, as though to me the HDVD800 works a treat and I haven't heard other DAC/Amps with the HD800, I have heard that there are better options. Any obvious alternatives you recommend me checking out?

Also, currently my Anaxilus mod is still installed in my HD 800 though I may try the Super Dupont mod soon.

Much love, fellow HD 800'ers!


----------



## KopaZ

somewhat soft; I'd consider it hard though.
so far I've tested the parts durability with some drops (while not on headphome) and it holds up pretty well.
leather seems to have been glued onto the frame itself.


protoss said:


> WOW..... aaaaa sooo. Sorry to ask but what is that? Paint or ducktape strips? leathercrafting? leather strips? glue on leather on the plastic? is it soft to the touch? moist ?





protoss said:


> So i did the paint. Myself
> 
> process were
> 
> ...


----------



## Thenewguy007

KopaZ said:


> I think I managed to cure dreaded paint chip issue permanently on HD800
> driver housing ring (parts on middle) isn't covered with leather so they're still vulnerable to chips but you can put the headphones sideways, like in picture
> you can bring your hd800 parts to someone who is professional in leathercrafting; I paid around$37 (40,000₩ in Korean).



Wow, at first I though that was a paint, but that's actual all leather covering the HD800!  How much did it cost to do that?


----------



## Xeculus

Windsor said:


> I'm curious about an alternative DAC/Amp, as though to me the HDVD800 works a treat and I haven't heard other DAC/Amps with the HD800, I have heard that there are better options. Any obvious alternatives you recommend me checking out?



Lots of room to improve! 

Schiit Vali 2 / Valhalla 2 / Mjolnir 2 
Feliks Elise
Eddie Current Black Widow (hard, but possible to get new still)
ECP Torpedo III
Eddie Current Zana Deux Super
Donald North Audio Stratus/Stellaris

Pick up a Modi MB until you're ready to jump to Gumby/Yggy.


----------



## VocaloidDude

So my multi year search for an upgrade to the sennheiser HD650 has lead me here. I was wondering specifically if these headphones would be good for metal music. I have very different taste in metal music than a lot of people, I usually don't like metal which is very highly produced. I like old school death metal, thrash metal, doom metal, sludge metal, grindcore, black metal. That is just part of the type of genres of music I like, that is in no way all that I listen to. I am just concerned, because on the ultimate solution for metal chart on head fi, which I think was made back in 2012, it slates the HD800 as being pretty average headphones for listening to metal music. 

Here is what I wrote in the other thread about the sort of headphones that I'm looking for. 



> I am looking for full size, open back headphones, in the 1000 dollar range. Comfort is of the utmost importance. My headphones I currently use are the Sennheiser HD650. I tried the Audeze LCD-2 once, but one of the drivers died in them so I returned them, they also hurt after prolonged periods of time.
> 
> I think the Audeze LCD-2 sounded better, in spite of it's deal breaking caveats. One of the things I liked about these headphones, is they give you the feeling of the sounds being right in the room with you more often than the sennheiser HD650, which only gives that feeling every now and then. The only pair of headphones which seem to be similar (based on the ultimate guide to metal headphones chart on head fi) are the kennerton odin, which are twice my budget.
> 
> ...


----------



## Thenewguy007

VocaloidDude said:


> I will be plugging these into the Magni 2 and Modi, but I would upgrade. Amplifiers are too confusing for me to even try to get into.
> 
> I don't get how people have a preference over one sound signature, like bass, treble, or midsection. I think they're all important, but I never cared much about having a ton of bass. I like the bass in my headphones to be tight and controlled, and punchy. I have a preference realism in the instruments, I like the feeling of lifelike imaging. I also like a wide sound stage, that's one of my favorite things about the HD650 is their wide open feeling.
> 
> I like a lot of different genres of music though, my favorite right now is classical. My preferences tend to be harsh and abrasive




The Magni & Modi won't drive the HD800 to its full potential. You'll need to spend another grand for just a (preferably tube) amplifier for that. With the Magni/Modi combo, it will sound good, but you won't get the soundstage, imaging & bass thump the HD800 are capable. I feel music that is harsh & abrasive absolutely needs a tube amps paired with the HD800 otherwise the HD800 will just amplify that harsh sound. Though for spacy music/ambient they would be perfect.

The HD650 has a closed in soundstage, if you think that is good, the HD800 will blow it away.


----------



## HPLobster

Xeculus said:


> Lots of room to improve!
> 
> Schiit Vali 2 / Valhalla 2 / Mjolnir 2
> Feliks Elise
> ...



+ 1
The Elise+HD800 - combination is a match made in heaven. It definitely should be as widely known and appreciated as the Crack-HD650-combo...  In general this fusion is simply the best way to listen to Jazz and/or classical music there is IMHO.
And a nice Multibit-DAC like Bimby, Gumby or Yggy just ennobles it even further...


----------



## Windsor

Xeculus said:


> Lots of room to improve!
> 
> Schiit Vali 2 / Valhalla 2 / Mjolnir 2
> Feliks Elise
> ...



Thanks for the reply. I'll check these out.

Wow, so you recommend the budget-priced Modi over the HDVD 800's inbuilt DAC?


----------



## protoss

Windsor said:


> Thanks for the reply. I'll check these out.
> 
> Wow, so you recommend the budget-priced Modi over the HDVD 800's inbuilt DAC?



Theres over 25 Amps/Dacs you can use with the HD800. Pretty much anything once you go over $1000.00. The pickiness and real life problems with the HD800 happens at the lower price range i notice. Keeping it real here. Also with Dacs around $250.00 dac ranges is pretty much all you need. 

So basically a $250.00 dac and with a over $1000.00 amp and you good to go. That HDVD800 dac is pretty much a $200.00 dac performance level with a decent amplifier. 

This is what i wish people actually try to explain to me in the beginning of the Amp/Dac nonsense upgrading stuff. Owell. 

P.S . there are $1000.00 dacs that beats a modi of course right but the performance is almost laughable thou.

Cheers


----------



## Xeculus (May 30, 2017)

Windsor said:


> Thanks for the reply. I'll check these out.



If any interest you, I'll do my best to give you some insight to the ones I've heard




Windsor said:


> Wow, so you recommend the budget-priced Modi over the HDVD 800's inbuilt DAC?



I've auditioned the HDVD800 and it doesn't do anything special for the HD800. The DAC section in particular is not impressive, and the amp section doesn't scale with a better source. You can do better for the price.




protoss said:


> Pretty much anything once you go over $1000.00. The pickiness and real life problems with the HD800 happens at the lower price range i notice.



I disagree. The GS-X mk2 is an awful match for the HD800. EC Studio with its uber neutral signature also not great, synergizes better with the HD6X0. I wouldn't look at this from a price perspective. Amp+Headphone synergy is much more important. I'll take Vali 2 before a GSX


----------



## KopaZ

Thenewguy007 said:


> Wow, at first I though that was a paint, but that's actual all leather covering the HD800!  How much did it cost to do that?


$37 for my case (40,000 Korean Won) but it will vary depending who does it for you.
when I spent $40 to my local shoe repair to do the same job it came out ugly.
ultimately I'll be trying to make 3D model of the parts and try to find someone who can put leather over the printed parts and sell it to hd800 owners.

im guessing the final price will be$100-150, last time i talked to sennheiser via email they asked around $90 per each side of parts ($180 total) so it will cost a less AND have more durable parts compared to stock parts.


----------



## Thenewguy007

KopaZ said:


> $37 for my case (40,000 Korean Won) but it will vary depending who does it for you.
> when I spent $40 to my local shoe repair to do the same job it came out ugly.
> ultimately I'll be trying to make 3D model of the parts and try to find someone who can put leather over the printed parts and sell it to hd800 owners.
> 
> im guessing the final price will be$100-150, last time i talked to sennheiser via email they asked around $90 per each side of parts ($180 total) so it will cost a less AND have more durable parts compared to stock parts.



Hope you get it done! I'd definitely would buy something like that.


----------



## HPLobster

protoss said:


> Theres over 25 Amps/Dacs you can use with the HD800. Pretty much anything once you go over $1000.00. The pickiness and real life problems with the HD800 happens at the lower price range i notice. Keeping it real here. Also with Dacs around $250.00 dac ranges is pretty much all you need.
> 
> So basically a $250.00 dac and with a over $1000.00 amp and you good to go. That HDVD800 dac is pretty much a $200.00 dac performance level with a decent amplifier.
> 
> ...




Hmmm...... of course everyone has gathered their own experiences but I don´t think that an amp´s ability to be a good match for a certain headphone should ever be determined through pricing, especially when you consider the industries development over the last years in this regard...
There certainly are very good matches for the HD 800 that sell for less than 1000$ and there MOST certainly are very bad matches that cost more than 1000$.

Also, I don´t think that any other headphone responds more to DAC-upgrading than the HD 800 does. I did a side-by-side comparison of the Gumby and the respective DAC-sections of the Mojo, a Questyle cma600i and a RME ADI-2 Pro. The difference was SIGNIFICANT (in favour of the Gumby)...

@Windsor in the end, also never understimate the power of personal taste! Synergy ultimately is a subjective thing with no measurable value, so never buy before listening...


----------



## whirlwind

I just ordered a new dac, but i have about a five week wait to get it.

KTE Holo Spring Level 3, i can't wait to hear the HD800 with it....have a new amp from 2359 glenn coming also....good times ahead.


----------



## UntilThen

Congrats @whirlwind . We should organise a mini meet to hear each other's system.


----------



## UntilThen

HPLobster said:


> + 1
> The Elise+HD800 - combination is a match made in heaven. It definitely should be as widely known and appreciated as the Crack-HD650-combo...  In general this fusion is simply the best way to listen to Jazz and/or classical music there is IMHO.
> And a nice Multibit-DAC like Bimby, Gumby or Yggy just ennobles it even further...



I agree with you Lobster. Just got a HD800 and Yggy. Together with Euforia, I simply want to listen to music and not care about giving any impressions.


----------



## protoss

HPLobster said:


> Hmmm...... of course everyone has gathered their own experiences but I don´t think that an amp´s ability to be a good match for a certain headphone should ever be determined through pricing, especially when you consider the industries development over the last years in this regard...
> There certainly are very good matches for the HD 800 that sell for less than 1000$ and there MOST certainly are very bad matches that cost more than 1000$.
> 
> Also, I don´t think that any other headphone responds more to DAC-upgrading than the HD 800 does. I did a side-by-side comparison of the Gumby and the respective DAC-sections of the Mojo, a Questyle cma600i and a RME ADI-2 Pro. The difference was SIGNIFICANT (in favour of the Gumby)...
> ...



Yes your right. No doubt about.

I personally love the Parasound Zdac 2 with the HD800 and thats only $500.00.


----------



## whirlwind

UntilThen said:


> Congrats @whirlwind . We should organise a mini meet to hear each other's system.




Ha, if we only did not live half way round the world from each other!


----------



## mickerru

Hi. I have a chord mojo driven by foobar. Will be buying the hd800 but thinking that the mojo will make me wanting for more. 

Will the mojo feeding an amp(matrix 3b or soloist) will give me a poor mans end game rig?


----------



## DavidA

mickerru said:


> Hi. I have a chord mojo driven by foobar. Will be buying the hd800 but thinking that the mojo will make me wanting for more.
> 
> Will the mojo feeding an amp(matrix 3b or soloist) will give me a poor mans end game rig?



Depends, if that's all you have heard then it might be good enough to be your end game and it also depends on what headphones you have or had in the past and also the genre of music that you like.

For me the Mojo didn't drive the HD800 very well, the sound was a bit lifeless which surprised me since the Hugo sounded so much better and looking at the specs say they are the same or very similar, but I was also comparing the Mojo to a Liquid Glass, BH Crack, DarkStar and Hugo at the same time so it was a little easier to notice the differences.  FWIW I think using the Mojo as a DAC to a BH Crack is a pretty good combination.


----------



## mickerru

Thanks. Appreciate your response


----------



## ruthieandjohn (Jun 4, 2017)

People have complained that the DAC in the Sennheiser HDVD800 DAC/amp is of merely modest quality, while the amp in there is of great quality particularly matched to the HD800 headphone. Folks have pointed to the fact that the HDVD800, including both DAC and amp, is listed at $400 more than the HDVA600, which is the amp alone, with no DAC, and they have said that the HDVD800 DAC is of quality one might expect for the relatively modest price of $400.

I have been testing this claim. I am not able to verify it.

I have bypassed the DAC of the HDVD800 and put in two different DACs, then feeding directly into the HDVD amp and from that, into HD800 headphones.

The Stockholm V2 MHDT DAC, which was on tour perhaps a year ago, was one such DAC. It lists at $940. In detailed listening comparison to the HDVD800 DAC, the Stockholm was similar, with a bit smaller soundstage, and hence scoring just a bit lower overall than the HDVD800 DAC. Here is a post on the test (it is the second chart labelled "Test Results.") https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/t...tube-24-192-input.797275/page-7#post-12480315

I just tried the Schiit Bifrost Multibit DAC ($650) against the HDVD800, again to perceive no significant difference between the two.

I also compared my Chord Hugo ($2,400) vs. my Schiit Bifrost mutlbit DAC, but in this case feeding the HiFiMAN EF-6 amp driving the HiFiMAN HE1000 headphone, The Chord Hugo did NOT sound better than the Schiit Bifrost. That would suggest to me that replacing the HDVD800 DAC with the Chord Hugo would not improve sound, though I should really try it.

Hence, I have found no shortcoming with the DAC that is in the Sennheiser HDVD800. I'd be interested in comments of others, with the particular DACs that they have compared to the HDVD800 DAC... I may perhaps be able to try those in comparison as well.

EDIT:  4 hours later - I indeed tried the $2,400 Chord Hugo as the DAC into the amp portion of the HDVD800, hence bypassing the HDVD800 DAC.  Again as suspected, I could perceive no difference between the two... both were great.  

Hence, I cannot hear a shortcoming in the HDVD800 DAC as compared to the Stockholm V2 MHDT, the Schiit Bifrost Multibit DAC, and the Chord Hugo DAC.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Hi, has anyone here sold their S version for the regular HD800 and liked it better? I've decided to sell mine because I felt they were too smooth (I even tried to run them through the Jot).

I guess I was expecting more treble energy... Something akin to the HE-560 treble response. How does the original compare to that? I have a Liquid Carbon if that will help smooth out the peak I've read about.


----------



## HPLobster

ruthieandjohn said:


> People have complained that the DAC in the Sennheiser HDVD800 DAC/amp is of merely modest quality, while the amp in there is of great quality particularly matched to the HD800 headphone. Folks have pointed to the fact that the HDVD800, including both DAC and amp, is listed at $400 more than the HDVA600, which is the amp alone, with no DAC, and they have said that the HDVD800 DAC is of quality one might expect for the relatively modest price of $400.
> 
> I have been testing this claim. I am not able to verify it.
> 
> ...




Nice post and very interesting observations! 

A few remarks from my side:

- The HDVD800 and the HDVA600 do not have exactly the same amp build in. Sure, I know it reads the same on paper, but as a matter of fact the HDVA600 has been designed later on and therefore has obtained the one or other upgraded component (especially regarding the unbalanced input stage) which makes the HDVA600 actually the "better" amp out of the two. This has been stated and confirmed by Sennheiser´s own Axel Grell himself on some rare occasions (e.g. in this Swiss article on page 7 http://www.avguide.ch/testbericht/7...t-kh-verstaerker-sennheiser-hdvd-800-hdva-600) . That should increase the HDVD800 DAC´s value further (in theory), which brings me to my next point... 

- I am no industry insider but even with having just a little sense for business economics one should already know that the brief calculation you have done for the HDVD800-DAC is of course far, far away from being realistic. I won´t go into detail but obviously there are many more factors that Need to be weighed in. Don´t get me wrong, this is not meant as criticism, ultimately my point is that considering the respective company sizes, their business image and target groups and also estimating the approximate production costs knowing a little about financial ratios in the industry, your findings weren´t THAT big of a shock - for me at least - as I can imagine the actual costs for the respective DAC-sections to be, well, quite similar actually.... 

Still, very intersting findings overall, especially when coming from such a trustworthy listener (if I may say so) and considering the HD800 being the ideal headphone for revealing differences in DACs IMHO.
Just my two cents...


----------



## Matez

I auditioned HDVD800 with Senns HD 800, though I wasn't impressed at all. It sounded OK, don't get me wrong. But still, in terms of weight and texturing, the outcome was rather lifeless. It was several years ago and back then I had Audio-Gd Phoenix, which was subjectively more enjoyable match. The source used at that time was old LampizatOr Level4, which was based on a R2R chip, presumably Philips TDA1543. Senns in the works then had low number (13xx). Who knows? Perhaps today the impressions would be different?


----------



## RCBinTN (Jun 8, 2017)

ruthieandjohn said:


> People have complained that the DAC in the Sennheiser HDVD800 DAC/amp is of merely modest quality, while the amp in there is of great quality particularly matched to the HD800 headphone. Folks have pointed to the fact that the HDVD800, including both DAC and amp, is listed at $400 more than the HDVA600, which is the amp alone, with no DAC, and they have said that the HDVD800 DAC is of quality one might expect for the relatively modest price of $400.
> 
> I have been testing this claim. I am not able to verify it.
> 
> ...



I think this is a very interesting comparison of gear surrounding the HDVD800.  Owing to the above post by @HPLobster as likely correct, it still provides a good comparison of the HDVD800 against other DAC's.  There has been a ton of HDVD800 bashing on this site over the years, nice to read a direct comparison.

I owned the HDVA600 and it drove my HD800 pretty well.  I moved on because it's output impedance was matched to the HD800 and I wanted an amp to drive planars as well.  But, I enjoyed my time with the HDVA600.

I do think that SQ improvements will be gained with higher-end DACs like the Gungnir MB or Yggy, IMHO.

Enjoy your music!
RCB


----------



## Svatopluk (Jun 9, 2017)

ctaxxxx said:


> Hi, has anyone here sold their S version for the regular HD800 and liked it better? I've decided to sell mine because I felt they were too smooth (I even tried to run them through the Jot).
> 
> I guess I was expecting more treble energy... Something akin to the HE-560 treble response. How does the original compare to that? I have a Liquid Carbon if that will help smooth out the peak I've read about.


After seven years with the HD-800 and well over a year with the 800S, I can offer my two cents worth if it's any help. In my opinion, the 800 exhibits better resolution when compared to the 800S. So, depending on the quality of the recording you're listening to, the 800 can be a little to revealing at times. In other words, if accuracy is what you seek, the 800 will definitely deliver.
The only reason I keep the 800S around is due to it's greater versatility, and the fact that it pairs well with the HA-1.

 I have no experience with the Liquid Carbon but if it's a somewhat lush sounding and too warm for the 800S, it may be a satisfying pairing with the 800. If you ever want to go SS, any of the Violectric amps will pair well with the 800 along with Sennheiser offerings.

I had the HE-560 but I sold it. So...I'm going by memory pertaining to the general sound signature of the 560. I believe it was similar to the 800 in treble but not on the same level in regards to separation and bass definition.


----------



## Got the Shakes

Well I am now part of the HD800 club. Bought a used, but great condition pair with the SuperDupont mod from a user here and I am absolutely in love with listening to my music again. These are my endgame and that makes me happy to no longer feel like I'm chasing the next best thing. I didn't find myself listening to all that much music for the previous 6 months before I purchased the HD800, but now I literally can't wait to get home from work and slowly work through relistening to my entire music collection again. Plus, I bought these to use with the Smyth Realiser A16 I'm purchasing so I can't wait to try them for that application. Wish I would have jumped on this train earlier.


----------



## UntilThen

Agree on the HD800 which I have gotten only 20 days ago. Loving it with the gear in my signature. Agree also with Svatopluk's assessment of the HD800 and HD800S. I have heard both and agree with the findings. I much prefer the HD800.


----------



## RCBinTN

UntilThen said:


> Congrats @whirlwind . We should organise a mini meet to hear each other's system.



That would be cool, as @whirlwind thought long & hard about the Yggy!


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 9, 2017)

RCBinTN said:


> That would be cool, as @whirlwind thought long & hard about the Yggy!



I told him to toss a coin. It's a shame it landed on tails for Holo.   I should have given him a 2 headed coin.  

Yggy sounds incredible with details now after 20 days.... and that bass, so tight and controlled. It makes listening to music fun and real again.

Oops apologies... this is HD800 thread.


----------



## RCBinTN

Svatopluk said:


> After seven years with the HD-800 and well over a year with the 800S, I can offer my two cents worth if it's any help. In my opinion, the 800 exhibits better resolution when compared to the 800S. So, depending on the quality of the recording you're listening to, the 800 can be a little to revealing at times. In other words, if accuracy is what you seek, the 800 will definitely deliver.
> The only reason I keep the 800S around is due to it's greater versatility, and the fact that it pairs well with the HA-1.
> 
> I have no experience with the Liquid Carbon but if it's a somewhat lush sounding and too warm for the 800S, it may be a satisfying pairing with the 800. If you ever want to go SS, any of the Violectric amps will pair well with the 800 along with Sennheiser offerings.
> ...



I agree with this comparison of the HD800 an HD800S.  To me, the S sound veiled and that takes away from what the HD800 are all about.  But, the S probably do work better for more music genres.
At a HP meet in Nashville, we did a direct comparison of the HD800 and HD800S on the same music/same rig.  Everybody preferred the HD800.  FWIW friends.

Enjoy your music!
RCB


----------



## LugBug1

If anyone uses Little Dot OTL amps with the original HD800 I can highly recommend the very cheap CV4014 EF91 tubes. I've tried many tubes and these just click with the HD800. Especially if you are after more weight at the bottom. The clarity in the treble is very, very good and not fatiguing or harsh. 

Felt the need to spread the word, I've spent the last two weeks with what feels like a new amp because of these little tubes


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Regarding HD800/S: I can't hear the difference between an HD800S and my HD800 with the Sonarworks equalization, so for $100 I get two TOTL headphones in one. I'm still on the fence as to whether I prefer the EQ, so much so that I often forget that it's on (or off) and only realize when other cans sound a little weird.


----------



## djevoultion (Jun 11, 2017)

I'm a new member of the HD800 Club. Ordered them last night.

I'm looking forward to finally hearing these after eluding them for so many years.

Currently enjoying the Hifiman HEXV2 so it'd be interesting to compare.

Loved the HD600 so hoping these will be the natural step up from those.


----------



## Svatopluk

LugBug1 said:


> If anyone uses Little Dot OTL amps with the original HD800 I can highly recommend the very cheap CV4014 EF91 tubes. I've tried many tubes and these just click with the HD800. Especially if you are after more weight at the bottom. The clarity in the treble is very, very good and not fatiguing or harsh.
> 
> Felt the need to spread the word, I've spent the last two weeks with what feels like a new amp because of these little tubes


Thanks for the info.


----------



## Buddhahacker

LugBug1 said:


> If anyone uses Little Dot OTL amps with the original HD800 I can highly recommend the very cheap CV4014 EF91 tubes. I've tried many tubes and these just click with the HD800. Especially if you are after more weight at the bottom. The clarity in the treble is very, very good and not fatiguing or harsh.
> 
> Felt the need to spread the word, I've spent the last two weeks with what feels like a new amp because of these little tubes



I'll try these out! Thanks.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Svatopluk said:


> After seven years with the HD-800 and well over a year with the 800S, I can offer my two cents worth if it's any help. In my opinion, the 800 exhibits better resolution when compared to the 800S. So, depending on the quality of the recording you're listening to, the 800 can be a little to revealing at times. In other words, if accuracy is what you seek, the 800 will definitely deliver.
> The only reason I keep the 800S around is due to it's greater versatility, and the fact that it pairs well with the HA-1.
> 
> I have no experience with the Liquid Carbon but if it's a somewhat lush sounding and too warm for the 800S, it may be a satisfying pairing with the 800. If you ever want to go SS, any of the Violectric amps will pair well with the 800 along with Sennheiser offerings.
> ...



I got my (unmodded) HD800 headphones today. They were exactly what I was looking for! It may be because I'm listening them through the Liquid Carbon, but they're not nearly as bright or bass-thin as I imagined they would be from all the comparisons I've read.


----------



## gto88

The XBass from iFi amp will make HD800 bass production fly.
If you have not listened HD800 with it, you should try it out.


----------



## Svatopluk

ctaxxxx said:


> I got my (unmodded) HD800 headphones today. They were exactly what I was looking for! It may be because I'm listening them through the Liquid Carbon, but they're not nearly as bright or bass-thin as I imagined they would be from all the comparisons I've read.


Glad to hear the HD800/Liquid Carbon pairing is working so well for you. When others complain about the HD800 being bright or bass-thin, I assume either they prefer dark, laid-back headphones or they have not had the opportunity to experience it with the right setup.


----------



## protoss

Svatopluk said:


> After seven years with the HD-800 and well over a year with the 800S, I can offer my two cents worth if it's any help. In my opinion, the 800 exhibits better resolution when compared to the 800S. So, depending on the quality of the recording you're listening to, the 800 can be a little to revealing at times. In other words, if accuracy is what you seek, the 800 will definitely deliver.
> The only reason I keep the 800S around is due to it's greater versatility, and the fact that it pairs well with the HA-1.
> 
> I have no experience with the Liquid Carbon but if it's a somewhat lush sounding and too warm for the 800S, it may be a satisfying pairing with the 800. If you ever want to go SS, any of the Violectric amps will pair well with the 800 along with Sennheiser offerings.
> ...




Nothing is actually better than the HD800 . Only thing came close in my opinion was the 007 and 009 driven with lots of power. 

Scoring the HD800 from 1 to 10 in all category. Someone can pretty much come to the conclusion that the HD800 is one of the *greatest headphone* that was ever created and in 25 years from now a legendary headphone.

My scores:  (2017)

Imaging 10/10
Soundstage 11/10
Resolution 10/10
Separation 10/10
Accuracy 10/10
Tonality 10/10
Treble 11/10
Weight 10/10
Comfortable 10/10
Stylish 10/10
Bass 7/10
Mids 7/10
Pairing 7/10
Removable parts 10/10

= HD800 modern king


----------



## protoss (Jun 15, 2017)

HD800 is one of the greatest headphone that was ever created and forever will be! 

My scores: (2017)

Imaging 10/10
Soundstage 11/10
Resolution 10/10
Separation 10/10
Accuracy 10/10
Tonality 10/10
Treble 11/10
Weight 10/10
Comfortable 10/10
Stylish 10/10
Bass 7/10
Mids 7/10
Pairing 7/10
Removable parts 10/10

= HD800 Modern king!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

If you like HD800 for treble and soundstage, wait till you hear K1000 driven by a speaker amp. As James Comey would say, "Lordy!"


----------



## FLTWS

protoss said:


> HD800 is one of the greatest headphone that was ever created and forever will be!
> 
> My scores: (2017)
> 
> ...




Looks like you run your 800 like I do, without the black liner insert.

Are those custom head band and ear pads? Material looks different from my stock ones.


----------



## MattTCG

FLTWS said:


> Looks like you run your 800 like I do, without the black liner insert.
> 
> Are those custom head band and ear pads? Material looks different from my stock ones.



+1 on the question about the headband and pads. Inquiring minds won't to know.


----------



## Moochibond (Jun 15, 2017)

^^ Intriguing


----------



## protoss

FLTWS said:


> Looks like you run your 800 like I do, without the black liner insert.
> 
> Are those custom head band and ear pads? Material looks different from my stock ones.



That picture was taken when I was testing out some mods. Actually I use the dust cover with my HD800. I just had them remove because of the modding process. I did notice a very small 2% treble/resolution increase without the dust cover.

My Green ring HD800 S/N #008xx are the infamous original batch that sounds different than the higher models. It is with the original pads and headband. But the twist was I completely soak and wool soap wash it. It is very hard to describe the feeling now. It almost feels like a very soft, silk, pillow case? Not firm at all. I also notice sound is actually going through the pads 100%. My version could be consider HD800Speaker like now.
I prefer it this way now and could only listen to HD800 this way. My red ring ear pads is just like everyone else.


----------



## FLTWS

protoss said:


> That picture was taken when I was testing out some mods. Actually I use the dust cover with my HD800. I just had them remove because of the modding process. I did notice a very small 2% treble/resolution increase without the dust cover.
> 
> My Green ring HD800 S/N #008xx are the infamous original batch that sounds different than the higher models. It is with the original pads and headband. But the twist was I completely soak and wool soap wash it. It is very hard to describe the feeling now. It almost feels like a very soft, silk, pillow case? Not firm at all. I also notice sound is actually going through the pads 100%. My version could be consider HD800Speaker like now.
> 
> I prefer it this way now and could only listen to HD800 this way. My red ring ear pads is just like everyone else.




Very interesting. So the original pads and headband on these older serial numbers was of a different material, or, was it the same as currently available but you applied the "soak and wool soap wash" to it which changed the feel?


----------



## protoss

FLTWS said:


> Very interesting. So the original pads and headband on these older serial numbers was of a different material, or, was it the same as currently available but you applied the "soak and wool soap wash" to it which changed the feel?



Its the same materials. Yes I applied the 30min to 1 hour warm to hot water soak with wool and cashmere liquid soap. I reapply the process 3 times. And 3 times the bucket of water ended up being pitch black. This process did not destroy the pads/headbands. The plastic attach to the pads are in tack and firm. Noting is tearing or ripping or cut because of this process. The only things it did were, it made it super soft and pillow like, made it smell like cashmere roses and increase the performance of sound quality.
Why i did this? First the pads was getting smelling after 7 years. Second not paying $100 for pads. That's ridiculous.


----------



## FLTWS

protoss said:


> Its the same materials. Yes I applied the 30min to 1 hour warm to hot water soak with wool and cashmere liquid soap. I reapply the process 3 times. And 3 times the bucket of water ended up being pitch black. This process did not destroy the pads/headbands. The plastic attach to the pads are in tack and firm. Noting is tearing or ripping or cut because of this process. The only things it did were, it made it super soft and pillow like, made it smell like cashmere roses and increase the performance of sound quality.
> Why i did this? First the pads was getting smelling after 7 years. Second not paying $100 for pads. That's ridiculous.





That is interesting, I've got an extra set of pads and headband, I'll have to remember to try this cleaning method when the original pads get funky (only a year old this summer). I examined my pads and they look and feel kind of suede -like, your cleaning process makes it look like an entirely different type of fabric with an almost herringbone looking pattern. Maybe it's the lighting and the nicely detailed camera shots quality showing it up differently.

Those knitted (?) scalp protectors look comfy for cold weather wearing.

Thanks for the response and pictures.


----------



## beowulf (Jun 16, 2017)

bosiemoncrieff said:


> If you like HD800 for treble and soundstage, wait till you hear K1000 driven by a speaker amp. As James Comey would say, "Lordy!"



K1000 are so good at that. Too bad they're just not as practical. Well, even more now, given availability. Would be nice to see something like that come back... an alternative design by now since it would be uncommon.




protoss said:


> HD800 is one of the greatest headphone that was ever created and forever will be!
> 
> My scores: (2017)
> 
> ...



Don't try the Z1R. It will destroy your perception of comfort. I rate my 800 as an 8/10 at that, maximum. It's super comfy, until you realize how much more it can get. The Z1R is the solid 10/10 benchmark. It's like heavenly pillows for your ears and head 
Some of the other scores are spot on, tho.


----------



## protoss

beowulf said:


> K1000 are so good at that. Too bad they're just not as practical. Well, even more now, given availability. Would be nice to see something like that come back... an alternative design by now since it would be uncommon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I tired the Z1R. In my opinion I have a very negative view towards them. From massive coloration of a sound to the heated sweaty earpads. It is a nice looking headphone. But man... Comfy? Yes for short periods. I am pretty sure you have listen to dozens of pairs of headphones as of others here and the Z1R is relevantly comfortable but noticeable. I always knew I had something on my head wearing the Z1R. The HD800 I sometimes forget I am wearing a headphone. I have the Ether C Flow. Now heres a battle ! Ether Vs Z1R. This is a more proper fight. And I consider the Ether C Flow way better for value and comfortable regions than the Z1R. I also have the PM-1 for a bit. I find those super nice but and some serious ear pains later and that's a darn shame because its sounds very nice.

Also do not watch Tyll review on the Sony Z1R. Man Tyll will make every Z1R owners cry.


----------



## beowulf (Jun 16, 2017)

protoss said:


> I tired the Z1R. In my opinion I have a very negative view towards them. From massive coloration of a sound to the heated sweaty earpads. It is a nice looking headphone. But man... Comfy? Yes for short periods. I am pretty sure you have listen to dozens of pairs of headphones as of others here and the Z1R is relevantly comfortable but noticeable. I always knew I had something on my head wearing the Z1R. The HD800 I sometimes forget I am wearing a headphone. I have the Ether C Flow. Now heres a battle ! Ether Vs Z1R. This is a more proper fight. And I consider the Ether C Flow way better for value and comfortable regions than the Z1R. I also have the PM-1 for a bit. I find those super nice but and some serious ear pains later and that's a darn shame because its sounds very nice.
> 
> Also do not watch Tyll review on the Sony Z1R. Man Tyll will make every Z1R owners cry.



Variety in choices and impressions is what makes the hobby interesting.

I find the Z1R to be epically comfortable. The pads are thick, yet soft and the lamskin is very smooth. Of course, they do get hot if ambient temperatures are high, but that is going to happen with any other model with leather pads and closed format. Not perfectly comfortable in hot rooms.

I love the colors and comfort of the HD800 and even that feels itchy, heavy and plasticky after a switch.

The Ethers are great, but just like the Eikon I think they're not up to the same standard as the Z1R in build and sound,totally different leagues,built by people with very different levels of expertise.

Tyll had an interesting post, but I think he had an outlier pair. His finding are not matching many others from people in the field. Actually, there's a post from Jude on the front page about it at the time I'm writing this.

Anyway, my point was that the 800 are super comfy, but having both there's no way I put them at 10/10 in comfort after ten months with the Z1R. There's a reason I keep the 800 tho 

Ps. Nice paint work! I should mod my 800


----------



## P+D-MI (Jun 16, 2017)

protoss said:


> That picture was taken when I was testing out some mods. Actually I use the dust cover with my HD800. I just had them remove because of the modding process. I did notice a very small 2% treble/resolution increase without the dust cover.
> 
> My Green ring HD800 S/N #008xx are the infamous original batch that sounds different than the higher models. It is with the original pads and headband. But the twist was I completely soak and wool soap wash it. It is very hard to describe the feeling now. It almost feels like a very soft, silk, pillow case? Not firm at all. I also notice sound is actually going through the pads 100%. My version could be consider HD800Speaker like now.
> I prefer it this way now and could only listen to HD800 this way. My red ring ear pads is just like everyone else.
> Wasn't the original batch 1 through 500?


----------



## P+D-MI

Wasn't the original batch 1 through 500?


----------



## protoss

P+D-MI said:


> Wasn't the original batch 1 through 500?



What I meant was that back in the days the HD800 had a controversy that the sound of the first wave of batches had a different sound signature than the later version has. I believe after S/N#1500 to the present has the same exact sound but before that people complain it sounded different comparing ones from the S/N# 000 to the 0000 versions.

Also to my knowledge of first batch. It was #001 to #100. and I believe the second batch was from #101 to #500 and so forth. But once hitting up in the thousands people notice a sound differences. Many factors could be said about this. From thousands of burn in time to usage to a secret revision 2. I don't believe HD800 ever had a revision 2 not like the craziness of the LCD-2 and LCD-3 series.


----------



## MacedonianHero

beowulf said:


> Variety in choices and impressions is what makes the hobby interesting.
> 
> I find the Z1R to be epically comfortable. The pads are thick, yet soft and the lamskin is very smooth. Of course, they do get hot if ambient temperatures are high, but that is going to happen with any other model with leather pads and closed format. Not perfectly comfortable in hot rooms.
> 
> ...



While I agree with previous comments that the HD800 are not as warm to wear as the Z1R (open headphones typically have an advantage here) and technically I would give the nod to my HD800S over my Z1Rs, I find the 6kHz peak on the HD800 far, far more "troublesome" than the smaller 10kHz treble peak of say the beyer T1.2 or AKG K812 (again, I do think the HD800 is a more technically superior headphone, but this 6kHz peak really is a big issue for me). For reference, there isn't much going on at 10kHz (quite unlike 6kHz):








The so-called peak on the Z1R is quite the controversial thing right now. My experiences with a half dozen Z1Rs since their release sound very much in line with Jude's measurements; otherwise I wouldn't have bought my pair this past winter. That said, as much as I hold the HD800/HD800S in high esteem, my Z1Rs still get substantially more head-time. But we shall see...hopefully this doesn't take longer than the Russian meddling investigation into the Trump campaign.


----------



## protoss (Jun 17, 2017)

Buy this and install it. It will reduce the treble 40%

Cheers


MacedonianHero said:


> While I agree with previous comments that the HD800 are not as warm to wear as the Z1R (open headphones typically have an advantage here) and technically I would give the nod to my HD800S over my Z1Rs, I find the 6kHz peak on the HD800 far, far more "troublesome" than the smaller 10kHz treble peak of say the beyer T1.2 or AKG K812 (again, I do think the HD800 is a more technically superior headphone, but this 6kHz peak really is a big issue for me). For reference, there isn't much going on at 10kHz (quite unlike 6kHz):
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Buy this and install it for the original HD800. It will reduce the treble 40% or higher depends on your ears.

Cheers

http://www.ebay.com/itm/sennheiser-...177821?hash=item2384e0c2dd:g:cEUAAOSw8gVX~SoN


----------



## RCBinTN

Thank you for the frequency spectrum chart, @MacedonianHero.  That's very interesting.

I personally don't have an issue w/ the HD800 and really enjoy them with my usual music.  My (2) pair aren't modded.  We have two pair because me and the wife listen together to Joe Bonamassa (and sometimes other) BluRays.

If the recording seems a bit bright, I just switch to low gain on the Bryston BHA-1 amp.  That nicely tames the HD800 treble without much loss in SQ.  I auditioned the HD800S and didn't care for them - seemed to remove clarity from the HP.

Enjoy your music!
RCB


----------



## MacedonianHero

RCBinTN said:


> Thank you for the frequency spectrum chart, @MacedonianHero.  That's very interesting.
> 
> I personally don't have an issue w/ the HD800 and really enjoy them with my usual music.  My (2) pair aren't modded.  We have two pair because me and the wife listen together to Joe Bonamassa (and sometimes other) BluRays.
> 
> ...



Comparing the HD800 and HD800S for me was that they were pretty much the same headphone; except for 3 things:

1.) Sexy black on the HD800S.
2.) The annoying 6kHz bump for me was finally removed. Listening closely revealed that this, while a small change, was a game changer for me as I limited my use of the HD800 because of it. In terms of "clarity", the 6kHz boost can give an impression of a bit more clarity, but this isn't "real" as the 6kHz bump is simply not in the recording. Grado often does this too to give a sense of "great clarity", but in the end it's just a colouration. Whichever you prefer is the right choice of course. 
3.) A tad (maybe only 2dB) of more bass on the HD800S. This too was a welcomed addition to my ears anyway.

Cheers!


----------



## UntilThen

RCBinTN said:


> Thank you for the frequency spectrum chart, @MacedonianHero.  That's very interesting.
> 
> I personally don't have an issue w/ the HD800 and really enjoy them with my usual music.  My (2) pair aren't modded.  We have two pair because me and the wife listen together to Joe Bonamassa (and sometimes other) BluRays.
> 
> ...



I too prefer HD800 over HD800S and the so called 6kHz peak never bothered me. In my setup, comprising Yggy, Feliks Audio Euforia OTL amp and HD800, I find it rich in details with a natural soothing tone that is pleasing on the ears and fatigue free.

HD800 paired with the right tube amp will sound gold.


----------



## whirlwind

RCBinTN said:


> Thank you for the frequency spectrum chart, @MacedonianHero. That's very interesting.
> 
> I personally don't have an issue w/ the HD800 and really enjoy them with my usual music. My (2) pair aren't modded. We have two pair because me and the wife listen together to Joe Bonamassa (and sometimes other) BluRays.
> 
> ...


----------



## RCBinTN

You know, I think Joe may be spot-on with the "old ears" comment...the higher frequencies are the first affected.  We (both) have a history of factory work in loud environments. And, Annette has a touch of tinnitus. She reports that the HD800 tame the ringing...so a win on that + of course the Joe Bonamassa music 

The best I ever heard my un-modded HD800 was connected to the Yggy - WA5 rig owned by Mr. Speakers (Dan Clark) himself.  It was Dan's home rig...brought it to Nashville for a meet! The SQ was smooth as Schiit, mellow, detailed, great bass, uber resolving, you get it.  Not a hint of sibilance or fatigue at all.

However, I'm a SS amp guy.  Don't know anything about tubes, other than what @whirlwind has kindly enlightened me on.  I know one thing - the WA5 is a hell of a nice amp!

So anyway, it's exactly true what Peter wrote above..."Whichever you prefer is the right choice of course."

Enjoy your Music!
RCB

ps. Perhaps I should audition the Grado line!


----------



## ruthieandjohn

You really SHOULD listen to Joe Bonamassa with some Grados, preferably any of the over ears (GS2000e, PS1000, PS1000e, PS2000e, maybe not the GS1000e, unless sure it is burned inover 200 hrs).  

I have the Sennheiser HD800 (unmodded), with the HDVD800 amp, and I would NEVER let them go.  But I LOVE my Grados, especially for that type of music.  

Oh, and regarding husband and wife enjoying HD800 headphones together, I exposed my girlfriend to my entire collection of 28 models of Grados, bought her her very own favorite model, and... now that girlfriend is my wife!  She is the Ruthie of ruthieandjohn, and her ability to hear differences between headphones exceeds my own.


----------



## MacedonianHero

UntilThen said:


> I too prefer HD800 over HD800S and the so called 6kHz peak never bothered me. In my setup, comprising Yggy, Feliks Audio Euforia OTL amp and HD800, I find it rich in details with a natural soothing tone that is pleasing on the ears and fatigue free.
> 
> HD800 paired with the right tube amp will sound gold.



So pairing the HD800 with a coloured amp to help subdue it's issues is indeed another way. I just prefer to "fix" the headphones.


----------



## RCBinTN

That's an awesome story, John.  Thanks for sharing it!  Which of those Grado's would you suggest?


----------



## Svatopluk

MacedonianHero said:


> So pairing the HD800 with a coloured amp to help subdue it's issues is indeed another way. I just prefer to "fix" the headphones.


True, you can fix the HD800 but fun headphones like the MDR-Z7 are pretty much unfixable at least from a reference standpoint.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

My favorite is the GS1000i.  I'm extremely fond of the GS2000e, for which I wrote a review in the GS2000e Loaner Program thread, and the PS1000 and PS1000e.   For on ear, favorite would be the Grado RS2e.


----------



## UntilThen (Jun 19, 2017)

MacedonianHero said:


> So pairing the HD800 with a coloured amp to help subdue it's issues is indeed another way. I just prefer to "fix" the headphones.



Dont forget the army of tube amp lovers on Head-Fi. We do not share your sentiments.

I dont see it as fixing. I see it as synergy.


----------



## RCBinTN

UntilThen said:


> Dont forget the army of tube amp lovers on Head-Fi. We do not share your sentiments.
> 
> I dont see it as fixing. I see it as synergy.



Well stated, sir.


----------



## kernel8888

So, probably dumb question but does the hd800 use the same 2.5 mm connectors as the hd700 and he1000?


----------



## johnjen

In a word, no.

They are unique to the HD800.

JJ


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Be careful about getting third party cables. Even if the cables themselves are high quality, the proprietary connectors are expensive and sources are known to use knockoffs. I would stick to official Sennheiser cables, even though it hurts to pay $200+ for a (balanced) cable that should've been in the box.


----------



## DavidA

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Be careful about getting third party cables. Even if the cables themselves are high quality, the proprietary connectors are expensive and sources are known to use knockoffs. I would stick to official Sennheiser cables, even though it hurts to pay $200+ for a (balanced) cable that should've been in the box.



The connector used on the Forza cable that I had was actually better than the one on the original Senn cable but I agree that there are some knockoffs that are not well constructed.  I did get one pair that I had to return and the replacement was quite a bit different, much better construction so its a buyer beware.


----------



## johnjen

I just made another cable for my 2nd set of 800's.
I used Furutech connectors on both ends, their FP705(R) 4-pin XLR, and the FT-H800(R) HD800 connectors.
I am quite pleased with the results.

JJ


----------



## BobJS

Since our personal "Lists" didn't seem to get ported over from the old forums, I had to search this one to find I've had my HD800 4 years now.  After my initial infatuation with them, I really didn't listen to them all that much.

I know I'm late to this party, but I just applied the anaxilus mod, and I am very surprised to find how much improved (to my tastes) the sound is .... for the usual reasons .... meatier sound (improved bass), and 6khz spike reduced.

This is the least amount of money I've ever spent to get a "new" TOTL headphone!!


----------



## protoss

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Be careful about getting third party cables. Even if the cables themselves are high quality, the proprietary connectors are expensive and sources are known to use knockoffs. I would stick to official Sennheiser cables, even though it hurts to pay $200+ for a (balanced) cable that should've been in the box.



Can you show us some pictures of fake connectors/Cables? Because the sennhesier cables kind of sucks.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

The knockoffs are visually indistinguishable except for their being looser than the originals. Some are a little loose, some are so loose they do not stay in. Venus Audio originally shipped some of the super super super loose ones to me; they were then followed with some that were merely ordinarily loose. One connector often falls out if I stand up with them on, turn my head sharply, stretch to reach something, etc. 

I'm not enough of an as shole to ask for a third attempt at them, and the cable itself is by all accounts excellent. But Sennheiser's quarter inch cable has a satisfying "click" as it snaps into place. Not excessively tight by any means, just secure. Venus Audio's is just loose, and kind of a bit ch to use in any non-100% sedentary situation.


----------



## Svatopluk

bosiemoncrieff said:


> The knockoffs are visually indistinguishable except for their being looser than the originals. Some are a little loose, some are so loose they do not stay in. Venus Audio originally shipped some of the super super super loose ones to me; they were then followed with some that were merely ordinarily loose. One connector often falls out if I stand up with them on, turn my head sharply, stretch to reach something, etc.
> 
> I'm not enough of an as shole to ask for a third attempt at them, and the cable itself is by all accounts excellent. But Sennheiser's quarter inch cable has a satisfying "click" as it snaps into place. Not excessively tight by any means, just secure. Venus Audio's is just loose, and kind of a bit ch to use in any non-100% sedentary situation.


I must have got lucky with my Venus Audio cable. Never had a problem with loose connectors.


----------



## Sorrodje

Me neither.  I have a Balanced cable from Venus Audio cable since 2015 and the connectors work fine.


----------



## bearFNF (Jul 6, 2017)

Some of the knock-offs are missing details of the connectors and do not function as intended by Sennheiser (missing features which cause them to not stay in the socket on the headphone or have slightly incorrect dimensions that make them loose or not fully seated).  I have personally measured a few different styles and have seen the differences.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

have anyone tried the impact audio cable for hd800?


----------



## protoss

ZY Cables are pretty good. $150. 

https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Headphone-Upgrade-Balance-ZY-055/dp/B00MTB71SW

I got mine for $45 on eBay lol.


----------



## protoss (Jul 6, 2017)

Bestintheverse cables are fantastic . $ 125

https://bestintheversecables.com/collections/custom-cable/products/sennheiser-hd800-1


I have a nice Red XLR version for my Ether C Flow.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

protoss said:


> Bestintheverse cables are fantastic . $ 125
> 
> https://bestintheversecables.com/collections/custom-cable/products/sennheiser-hd800-1
> 
> ...



This looks awesome!


----------



## SoundBytes

protoss said:


> Nothing is actually better than the HD800 . Only thing came close in my opinion was the 007 and 009 driven with lots of power.
> 
> Scoring the HD800 from 1 to 10 in all category. Someone can pretty much come to the conclusion that the HD800 is one of the *greatest headphone* that was ever created and in 25 years from now a legendary headphone.
> 
> ...




I have to agree with you both here.  I am using the paired HDVD800 amp with the HD800 and it is truly amazing.  I would tend to agree if you want more bass get a different amp.  The HD800 is just amazingly non-forgiving and very analytic.  However, Soundstage and everything you list here is spot on.  I've never heard another headphone like the HD800.


----------



## SoundBytes

protoss said:


> Bestintheverse cables are fantastic . $ 125
> 
> https://bestintheversecables.com/collections/custom-cable/products/sennheiser-hd800-1
> 
> ...




I have Double Helix Elite 19 balanced and the Senn XLR... fantastic, but the DHC is quite the jump in price from the ones you list


----------



## SoundBytes (Jul 9, 2017)

protoss said:


> Can you show us some pictures of fake connectors/Cables? Because the sennhesier cables kind of sucks.



These are not fake.... lol... had to edit this... Here is one I just bought


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I too love my HD800 and its companion, the HDVD800.

Of course, when I was new on head-fi.org, my interaction with the HD800 was not always ducky...


----------



## UntilThen

SoundBytes said:


> I have to agree with you both here.  I am using the paired HDVD800 amp with the HD800 and it is truly amazing.  I would tend to agree if you want more bass get a different amp.  The HD800 is just amazingly non-forgiving and very analytic.  However, Soundstage and everything you list here is spot on.  I've never heard another headphone like the HD800.



Agree fully with you. Love my HD800 with Yggdrasil and Euforia. Have ordered the Ragnarok. I've already audition Yggdrasil and Ragnarok using HD800 stock. It sounded very good. Being a tube amp lover, I can even love the Schitt combination.


----------



## SoundBytes

UntilThen said:


> Agree fully with you. Love my HD800 with Yggdrasil and Euforia. Have ordered the Ragnarok. I've already audition Yggdrasil and Ragnarok using HD800 stock. It sounded very good. Being a tube amp lover, I can even love the Schitt combination.



wow...would love to try all of those...


----------



## UntilThen

SoundBytes said:


> wow...would love to try all of those...



All those.... sounds really really good.  Best I have heard HD800 in...

It's even better when I use Yggdrasil and Euforia as preamp to my stereo amp to power my speakers.


----------



## Yviena

Does anyone know where i can purchase the black plastic part  that the headband/slider sits on? The right part where the slider with the little metal ball sits on was very loose i tried fixing it but it seems the metal bit wasn't the problem but the plastic as it has fallen off there.


----------



## johnjen

You can order any part from Sennheiser directly.

JJ


----------



## PinkyPowers

I received my HD800 today!

 

Bought them used off Head-Fi. Old, and worn in, but damn beautiful, and supremely comfortable.

I'm always looking for warm and sort of bassy headphones. But I got to hear the HD800 for the first time a couple of months back, and knew it would be a great compliment to my usual gear. Something different, you know? 

Using a balanced Cardas cable going into my Audio-GD NFB-28 (2016 edition), and I'm quite taken with the sound. All my fears of this setup being too bright have vanished. It's splendid!


----------



## whirlwind

PinkyPowers said:


> I received my HD800 today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Congrats, they are great cans  and they scale to greater heights when you get a gear upgrade.....mine has and I find myself re-ripping some cd's to flac in a lesser compressed flac file.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

First time I've heard someone say splendid in a while. 

Planning to get a bluray/dvd/*cd* player specifically to get coax and remove my computer from my chain, it's the only way to go.


----------



## PinkyPowers

bosiemoncrieff said:


> First time I've heard someone say splendid in a while.



I'm bringing it back it a big bad way!


----------



## Tom Blake

I recently also came into a great deal on a well loved pair of HD800's. The pads were so nasty I had to replace them. I have since installed the SDR mod. Not sure I like it yet as it seems to have tamed the treble a bit too much. Waiting on a Draug 2 cable from Trevor before making the final call. They are really tremendous headphones and nearly have the resolution of my Stax L700. When using my iFi Pro iCan as a preamp to the Decware Taboo Mk. III they just sound incredible. They benefit significantly from the X-Bass control on the Pro iCAN as it allows one to dial up the bass volume in a very pleasing way. They may become my keeper open-back dynamic driver headphones. They are supremely comfortable also and I find no sign of the brightness that has always scared me off them based on reviews.


----------



## PinkyPowers

Tom Blake said:


> I recently also came into a great deal on a well loved pair of HD800's. The pads were so nasty I had to replace them. I have since installed the SDR mod. Not sure I like it yet as it seems to have tamed the treble a bit too much. Waiting on a Draug 2 cable from Trevor before making the final call. They are really tremendous headphones and nearly have the resolution of my Stax L700. When using my iFi Pro iCan as a preamp to the Decware Taboo Mk. III they just sound incredible. They benefit significantly from the X-Bass control on the Pro iCAN as it allows one to dial up the bass volume in a very pleasing way. They may become my keeper open-back dynamic driver headphones. They are supremely comfortable also and I find no sign of the brightness that has always scared me off them based on reviews.



Mine does not have any mods installed. I was weary of that famed treble harshness, and prepared to get the SDR mod. But I must say, I find the treble to be fairly tame, as is. I do not hear anything sharp or piercing. In fact, my LCD-2.2F has a bit more pop and sparkle in the upper registers. The HD800 sounds to my ears to be a fairly laid-back headphone. An easy listen.

I wonder if it's because I have that rarest of creatures, an amp which pairs well with the HD800. 

Either way, based on my first evening with these headphones, I don't think I'll be modding them. We'll see if my opinion changes over time.


----------



## Tom Blake

PinkyPowers said:


> Mine does not have any mods installed. I was weary of that famed treble harshness, and prepared to get the SDR mod. But I must say, I find the treble to be fairly tame, as is. I do not hear anything sharp or piercing. In fact, my LCD-2.2F has a bit more pop and sparkle in the upper registers. The HD800 sounds to my ears to be a fairly laid-back headphone. An easy listen.
> 
> I wonder if it's because I have that rarest of creatures, an amp which pairs well with the HD800.
> 
> Either way, based on my first evening with these headphones, I don't think I'll be modding them. We'll see if my opinion changes over time.


I may well revert the SDR mod. It is pretty easy to install at least. I can definitely vouch for stellar amp pairings with both the iFi Pro ICAN and Decware Taboo Mk III. Can't wait to hear mine with the Draug 2 cable. That is supposed to be really synergistic with the HD800 also.


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> First time I've heard someone say splendid in a while.
> 
> Planning to get a bluray/dvd/*cd* player specifically to get coax and remove my computer from my chain, it's the only way to go.



I agree. I've never used a PC for a music source but have looked at a dedicated music server / cd player (expensive) that I can load my disc collection into and that outputs coax and AES. 
Too many "I got a noise (etc.) problem" posts with USB put me off that route.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

If I ever do get yggy I will likely get the aes capable emotiva transport. But it's $500 and I'd rather have just one box. The only DVD player that can do aes is not available in region agnostic config. Also it costs 3k and I forget whether it does bluray though I assume it does. The do all disc player that mikes thread agreed was best was like $800 and worldwide DVD compatible. This is vital because I intend to acquire a collection of British theatre and European opera dvds. 

I assume all "put 300 discs inside me" players are crap?

Anyway my selfish reason for wanting disc transport is that computers have internet which is terrible for millennials like me who have zero attention span and are extremely easily distracted.


----------



## PinkyPowers

I have serious doubt over the whole USB noise issue. Not if you're running a good desktop DAC, which will have all the signal-cleaning circuitry you'd ever need already inside. For those still worried, there's things like the AudioQuest JitterBug, or that Schiit USB Hub which cleans power and signal.

My setup is as simple as this:
PC>foobar2k>USB>NFB-28>BalancedOut>HD800

I hear zero noise, or jitter, or anything remotely messy. It's supremely clean-sounding.


----------



## Moochibond

PinkyPowers said:


> I have serious doubt over the whole USB noise issue. Not if you're running a good desktop DAC, which will have all the signal-cleaning circuitry you'd ever need already inside. For those still worried, there's things like the AudioQuest JitterBug, or that Schiit USB Hub which cleans power and signal.
> 
> My setup is as simple as this:
> PC>foobar2k>USB>NFB-28>BalancedOut>HD800
> ...



I'm running: MacbookPro>USB>TEAC UD-503>SPL Phonitor 2>HD 800 and like you Pinky "I hear zero noise, or jitter, or anything remotely messy. It's supremely clean-sounding."


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

In case anyone is considering K1000, there is one currently on the classifieds for a *remarkably* good price, several hundred less than I paid for mine, and I believe with more extras than I got. If you followed my ongoing review, you know my great affection for the cans. If you have a Lyr 2 (but ideally a Mjolnir 2) or more powerful amplifier, you will be fine with them. 

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/akg-k1000-excellent-condition.855188/#post-13619115


----------



## RCBinTN

This is the HD800 thread.


----------



## PinkyPowers

After weeks with the HD800 now, what surprises me most is how warm and laid-back the sound is. Coming from the king of warm and laid-back, the LCD-2, I really expected these to exist somewhat on the opposite spectrum. I've always read how bright and potentially fatiguing the HD800 is. That has not been my experience whatsoever. 

These have so surprised me with their tuning, I've checked, more than once, for user-installed mods, thinking these must have been altered. This can't be the same HD800 sound I read about in all those reviews. But it is. No mods. It's a pure set of originals. 

And I love it! 

Yes, my LCD-2.2F is warmer and lusher, and the HD800 is drier and thinner. The LCD-2 has a much smaller soundstage, but also more vibrant. The HD800 is just as enormous-sounding as folk claimed, but the treble does not pierce, and the sound is beautifully relaxed, with more than a little warmth of its own.

Both these headphones are wonderful and extremely easy to listen to.

I should not have been so afraid of them for so long.


----------



## Little Bear

I couldn't agree more.  I did the SDR mod as soon as I got them, but I'm wondering if I really needed to.  My other cans are the LCD-X, which I also am madly in love with.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

PinkyPowers said:


> After weeks with the HD800 now, what surprises me most is how warm and laid-back the sound is. Coming from the king of warm and laid-back, the LCD-2, I really expected these to exist somewhat on the opposite spectrum. I've always read how bright and potentially fatiguing the HD800 is. That has not been my experience whatsoever.
> 
> These have so surprised me with their tuning, I've checked, more than once, for user-installed mods, thinking these must have been altered. This can't be the same HD800 sound I read about in all those reviews. But it is. No mods. It's a pure set of originals.
> 
> ...



(1) this is amazing but (2) what amps have you used and how have they changed your impressions?


----------



## defbear

I have a stock set of hd800 headphones. They sound great with all my amps. I won't sell my hdvd800 amp/DAC as it's so portable. The Master 11 sounds even better. A big positive change was ro replace my balanced cable with a Norne Draug 2 balanced cable. It looks like it was woven by the Dwarves for Elron and sounds even better.


----------



## PinkyPowers

bosiemoncrieff said:


> (1) this is amazing but (2) what amps have you used and how have they changed your impressions?



Still only have the NFB-28. Using a Cardas balanced cable.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I've never heard the HDVD800 (or HDVA 600), but as much as I find the WA5 sound seductive and beautiful, it (and its ilk) are so expensive relative to other component parts that I just can't justify it


----------



## Blackground




----------



## Buddhahacker

Blackground said:


>



This is hilarious!  And sadly, there is much truth to it.


----------



## Levanter

Well I got my 800S for below $1200 new, so i'm pretty happy with what I paid for it


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig (Aug 17, 2017)

Little Bear said:


> I couldn't agree more.  I did the SDR mod as soon as I got them, but I'm wondering if I really needed to.  My other cans are the LCD-X, which I also am madly in love with.


I have found with certain amps there is nothing I want to change about the HD800 (mind you, thats my ears we're talking about...) I have always been curious about the mod since I have not heard it yet...

Right now messing around with Chord Mojo and Elemental Watson with the 800. Listening to "The Wizard" by Uriah Heep. Got me toe tapping 

Please excuse my messy "work" station.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

MTMECraig said:


> I have found with certain amps there is nothing I want to change about the HD800 (mind you, thats my ears we're talking about...) I have always been curious about the mod since I have not heard it yet...
> 
> Right now messing around with Chord Mojo and Elemental Watson with the 800. Listening to "The Wizard" by Uriah Heep. Got me toe tapping
> 
> Please excuse my messy "work" station.



That looks quite good.


----------



## twiceboss

Got my Heron 5, first impression: this is too warm sometimes, lack details. Then at night i realized that, my hd800 is modded with two different mods, one is SDR and one more is using shelf liner to reduce more highs. I used iCan SA before. So it is not warm enough, these two mods solved the issue with iCan.

But, i forgot to remove the shelf liner before i tried my heron resulting lacking a lot of details. 

So tonight, i removed the shelf liner and the sound is spectacular! 

Source: X Sabre as a DAC


----------



## twiceboss (Aug 18, 2017)

tbh, this heron 5 seems near to my end game 
i just need a lil boost bass eq since im just loving bass of ifi can do before. But this heron has everything better than iCan so far except the bass boost.

EDIT: fyi, this heron never distort the sound even I didnt reduce the gain in eq when i increase the lows till 8db. No bass distortion... ok im amazed now


----------



## Shetzu

Ever since I modded my HD 800 with Super Dupont Mod, I have been really swept away with the sound. Currently With mojo as the Dac and Burson Soloist MK II as my amp the combination is just out of the world. This is the best desktop rig I can think of so far. I never thought of going for a desktop Dac as Chord Mojo solves my portability requirement too along with my A&K Kann as the DAP.
I just ordered the Alex Cavalli CTH Hybrid amp on Massdrop. This would be my first tube sounding amp. If things go right my target tube amp would be Wood Audio Wa6 SE or the Felix Audio-Elise.

Anyone having impressions with these two tube amps please let me have your inputs.


----------



## Shetzu

PinkyPowers said:


> I have serious doubt over the whole USB noise issue. Not if you're running a good desktop DAC, which will have all the signal-cleaning circuitry you'd ever need already inside. For those still worried, there's things like the AudioQuest JitterBug, or that Schiit USB Hub which cleans power and signal.
> 
> My setup is as simple as this:
> PC>foobar2k>USB>NFB-28>BalancedOut>HD800
> ...


 I too have never faced any USB issues. I use Audivarna on my iMac and have Audioquest cable to my Chord Mojo which I link with my Burson  and finally to my Hd-800. Its awesome.


----------



## mickerru

Anyone here compared the matrix 3b and the nfb 1amp? My mojo seems thin with the hd800


----------



## DavidA

Shetzu said:


> Ever since I modded my HD 800 with Super Dupont Mod, I have been really swept away with the sound. Currently With mojo as the Dac and Burson Soloist MK II as my amp the combination is just out of the world. This is the best desktop rig I can think of so far. I never thought of going for a desktop Dac as Chord Mojo solves my portability requirement too along with my A&K Kann as the DAP.
> I just ordered the Alex Cavalli CTH Hybrid amp on Massdrop. This would be my first tube sounding amp. If things go right my target tube amp would be Wood Audio Wa6 SE or the Felix Audio-Elise.
> 
> Anyone having impressions with these two tube amps please let me have your inputs.


If going with the stock tubes in the Elise you might want to make your HD800 stock again, the SDR mod might make it a bit too warm, the owner of the Elise agree and with the even warmer HD650 it was way too warm.  Good news is that great tubes in the Elise does not seem to cost an arm and a leg from what I've reading in the Elise thread compared to some of the tubes that are recommend for the Woo amps.  I pretty much stay with my slightly modded BH Crack for the HD800, its "good enough" for me.


----------



## Shetzu (Aug 26, 2017)

DavidA said:


> If going with the stock tubes in the Elise you might want to make your HD800 stock again, the SDR mod might make it a bit too warm, the owner of the Elise agree and with the even warmer HD650 it was way too warm.  Good news is that great tubes in the Elise does not seem to cost an arm and a leg from what I've reading in the Elise thread compared to some of the tubes that are recommend for the Woo amps.  I pretty much stay with my slightly modded BH Crack for the HD800, its "good enough" for me.


Thanks for your inputs. It has ben a great help. Maybe I need to look at other options too. I would not want to make my HD800 stock again.


----------



## thecrow

Shetzu said:


> Ever since I modded my HD 800 with Super Dupont Mod, I have been really swept away with the sound. Currently With mojo as the Dac and Burson Soloist MK II as my amp the combination is just out of the world. This is the best desktop rig I can think of so far. I never thought of going for a desktop Dac as Chord Mojo solves my portability requirement too along with my A&K Kann as the DAP.
> I just ordered the Alex Cavalli CTH Hybrid amp on Massdrop. This would be my first tube sounding amp. If things go right my target tube amp would be Wood Audio Wa6 SE or the Felix Audio-Elise.
> 
> Anyone having impressions with these two tube amps please let me have your inputs.


Having heard the mojo separately and having owned the soloist before i too would think that would be a good combo

Re tubes amps i have and love the wa2. Silky smooth and great step up from soloist. 

Only downside of wa2 is that it does limit what headphones match well with it due to high output impedance. 

I had a demo listen to wa6se and found it to lack the silky magic of the wa2. The 6se was more of a brighter/punchy style (closer to solid state)

I feel the wa2 is superb if wanting an amp purely for the hd800. My lcd2 comes up (a bit surprisingly) well with the wa2 - nicely warm on the bottom end and not bloomy as some lower impedance headphones come up


----------



## Shetzu

thecrow said:


> Having heard the mojo separately and having owned the soloist before i too would think that would be a good combo
> 
> Re tubes amps i have and love the wa2. Silky smooth and great step up from soloist.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply. I too was told WA2 is perfect match for the Hd800.  I will try to take a demo of it and check it out


----------



## ardilla

I recently posted a review where I compare a range of amplifiers with the HD800:

*THE BEST AMP FOR SENNHEISER HD800?
A BIG AMPLIFIER COMPARISON REVIEW*

Hope someone finds it useful - and am curious if others share my observations =)


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Fabulous comparative review.  Thank you for all your efforts.


----------



## ardilla

ruthieandjohn said:


> Fabulous comparative review.  Thank you for all your efforts.



Thanks - I'm glad you liked it =)


----------



## Thenewguy007

ardilla said:


> I recently posted a review where I compare a range of amplifiers with the HD800:
> 
> *THE BEST AMP FOR SENNHEISER HD800?
> A BIG AMPLIFIER COMPARISON REVIEW*
> ...



That's a huge list of amps you tested & compared. Was it done cumulatively or did you have all that gear at the same time?


----------



## ardilla

Thenewguy007 said:


> That's a huge list of amps you tested & compared. Was it done cumulatively or did you have all that gear at the same time?



Had them at the same time with just a few exceptions. All the comparisons are of direct, of course .)


----------



## RCBinTN

ardilla said:


> I recently posted a review where I compare a range of amplifiers with the HD800:
> 
> *THE BEST AMP FOR SENNHEISER HD800?
> A BIG AMPLIFIER COMPARISON REVIEW*
> ...



Wow, that was a great ride through potential amps for the HD800. Seems like a lot of (fun) work.

I owned the Asgard2, it didn't work with the HD800 at all. Too bright, agree w/ your comments.
I owned the HDVA600, didn't care for it - seemed thin (a surprise, as it's made to drive the HD800).
I also owned the Mjolnir1 and didn't care for it w/ the HD800 either - powerful enough but too bright.
I've heard better comments about the Mjolnir2, but haven't personally listened to it.

I never heard the V281 personally, but know folks who love it. There are many good reviews of that amp out there.
I almost bought the Auralic Taurus mkII then changed my mind.

Decided to go with the Bryston BHA-1 instead...an amp that I still own and love.
I wanted dual balanced outputs. The BHA-1 is one of the few amps that offers it.
Plus - I'm a SS amp person who knows nothing about tubes...and a 20-year warranty is nice.

I also noticed a significant SQ improvement to the HD800 when I upgraded my Schiit Gungnir DAC to their multi-bit technology.
Especially with well-recorded and/or mastered music.
The GMB + BHA-1 is a fine upstream rig for the HD800, IMO.

I have two other data points, heard at a Nashville meet a couple years ago. 
Dan Price (of Mr. Speakers) was there with his personal rigs.
Yggy + Ragnarok - a punchy and sublime sound. Plenty of power to make the HD800 feel smooth. Not overly bright.
Yggy + WA5 - the best I've ever heard, better than the Rag. The HP's just disappeared. I would go this way, if I had the space and $$ for the WA5.
All above comments are based on my own HD800 that are not modded in any way.

Thanks for the fine review, @ardilla.

Cheers,
RCB


----------



## thecrow

ardilla said:


> I recently posted a review where I compare a range of amplifiers with the HD800:
> 
> *THE BEST AMP FOR SENNHEISER HD800?
> A BIG AMPLIFIER COMPARISON REVIEW*
> ...


Thats a great write up thats answers a lot of questions people might have. Its a great selection of amps at a good price point to have this conversation 

I have the wa2 and our preferences are pretty much in line with each other. I too enjoy the silky smooth nature of it, including the impact it has with the lcd2 where some people (like myself) enjoy the combo and some don't


----------



## PinkyPowers

ardilla said:


> I recently posted a review where I compare a range of amplifiers with the HD800:
> 
> *THE BEST AMP FOR SENNHEISER HD800?
> A BIG AMPLIFIER COMPARISON REVIEW*
> ...



Yikes! That is one impressive work! Well done!


----------



## Hansotek

Speaking of amps for the HD800, I just got done reviewing the Rogue RH-5, and I thought it sounded absolutely wonderful with the HD800. Super spacious and clean, with just a nice touch of tubey forgiveness to tame the top end without over-editorializing the sound. For those who don't know, Rogue Audio is a well-known name in the two-channel world, but this is the first dip into the headphone realm for them. 

Anyway, I made a note to share the review on this thread once it posted, so here's a link:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazi...5_Headphone_Amplifier_Preamplifier_Review.htm

Enjoy!


----------



## whirlwind

Hansotek said:


> Speaking of amps for the HD800, I just got done reviewing the Rogue RH-5, and I thought it sounded absolutely wonderful with the HD800. Super spacious and clean, with just a nice touch of tubey forgiveness to tame the top end without over-editorializing the sound. For those who don't know, Rogue Audio is a well-known name in the two-channel world, but this is the first dip into the headphone realm for them.
> 
> Anyway, I made a note to share the review on this thread once it posted, so here's a link:
> http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazi...5_Headphone_Amplifier_Preamplifier_Review.htm
> ...




Hansotek...I have a couple of questions for you.

Do you still own the OTL amp built  by Glenn.
If so have you heard it with the HD800 and a pair of 5998 power tubes and some nice driver tubes 

I see you have the ZMF Ori & Atticus.......Is the bass on the Atticus as much fun as the Ori and does it have as much weight to the bass as the Ori

Thanks for any info.


----------



## ardilla (Sep 1, 2017)

RCBinTN said:


> Wow, that was a great ride through potential amps for the HD800. Seems like a lot of (fun) work.
> 
> I owned the Asgard2, it didn't work with the HD800 at all. Too bright, agree w/ your comments.
> I owned the HDVA600, didn't care for it - seemed thin (a surprise, as it's made to drive the HD800).
> ...



Totally agree - the Asgard2 was good for the money - until my ears started hurting.. That might be subjective, people are different. ¨

I have heard the Bryston many times - but never with the HD800. I always liked it and imagine it would be a great match - I'll take that as a reminder - I'll try to get a BHA1-review up in the not too distant future. Any product wihth a 20 year warranty deserves a review 

WA5 - Ahhh. Someday.. 



thecrow said:


> Thats a great write up thats answers a lot of questions people might have. Its a great selection of amps at a good price point to have this conversation
> 
> I have the wa2 and our preferences are pretty much in line with each other. I too enjoy the silky smooth nature of it, including the impact it has with the lcd2 where some people (like myself) enjoy the combo and some don't



Wa2 ftw! If you like the LCD-2 (or 3) on the WA2, you are really into dark and silky.. I too can appreciate that combo sometimes 



PinkyPowers said:


> Yikes! That is one impressive work! Well done!



Thanks - Yup - too much work!  I have sworn to never do that again..


----------



## thecrow (Sep 1, 2017)

ardilla said:


> Wa2 ftw! If you like the LCD-2 (or 3) on the WA2, you are really into dark and silky.. I too can appreciate that combo sometimes




my system was built around my main headphones of the hd800 - hence the wa2 and a lot of tube exploration

after to-ing and fro-ing re getting a complementing (but different) headphone but not wanting to fork out a lot for a new or second amp the lcd2 delivered nicely - i discovered the combo when initially looking at the zmf atticus and eikon (being high impedance) but the lcd2 just had a better balance for me and managed to work with the lcd2 (2016 version) in a way that brought out lush mids and managed to fall short in the bottom end bloating as sometimes happened on the wa2 with low/mid impedance headphones

i almost went to seriously buy an amp like the master 9 for the lcd2 but bought AND SOLD the lehmann bcl and was happy enough to stop with my wa2 and pour money into other audio options (ie cables and portable gear)

in a nutshell the lcd2 (for me) works with the wa2 as a SECONDARY and complementing headphone to the hd800


----------



## ardilla

thecrow said:


> my system was built around my main headphones of the hd800 - hence the wa2 and a lot of tube exploration
> 
> after to-ing and fro-ing re getting a complementing (but different) headphone but not wanting to fork out a lot for a new or second amp the lcd2 delivered nicely - i discovered the combo when initially looking at the zmf atticus and eikon (being high impedance) but the lcd2 just had a better balance for me and managed to work with the lcd2 (2016 version) in a way that brought out lush mids and managed to fall short in the bottom end bloating as sometimes happened on the wa2 with low/mid impedance headphones
> 
> ...



Totally get that way of prioritizing. Only thing that puzzles me is that you don't have a HD650 too!  It is soooo yummy with the wa2. They are meant to be together.


----------



## thecrow (Sep 1, 2017)

ardilla said:


> Totally get that way of prioritizing. Only thing that puzzles me is that you don't have a HD650 too!  It is soooo yummy with the wa2. They are meant to be together.


I only demoed that once with my amp at a meet and thought that the hd650 woukd never get used v my hd800. In fact i enjoyed the he500 better at that meet - again not a perfect combo or most natural/neutral sound but the mids were delicious there too

Perhaps i might demo the hd650 again

I do find the hd800 with various tube options (holland, siemens, tele, amperex usa with the gec 6as7g) give so many great tweaking options to play with


----------



## Hansotek

whirlwind said:


> Hansotek...I have a couple of questions for you.
> 
> Do you still own the OTL amp built  by Glenn.
> If so have you heard it with the HD800 and a pair of 5998 power tubes and some nice driver tubes
> ...



I do still have the Glenn OTL. I am a huge fan of that amp. I usually listen to the HD800 a little more on the Milo, but it is great on the Glenn too. Most of my personal listening (non-review, input or production listening) of late has been with the Atticus and the Glenn OTL. Don't expect neutrality, but as far as musicality goes, it is tough to beat, IMO. Tubes (especially OTLs, in my experience) give Atticus a really sweet midrange bloom that makes it super sweet and musical. 

To answer your other question Atticus has more midbass than Ori but not as much subbass extension. Atticus definitely has more bass weight than Ori. I also pair it with the DanaCable Lazuli ($549 (which I know isn't for everybody)), which is a super meaty and thick sounding cable, and it makes Atticus the thickest, meatiest headphone I have heard. Like a significantly better version of the pre-fazor LCD-2, in some ways (better stage and imaging, but less bass extension). Great 1, 2 punch with my HD800 because they are such different approaches.


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

Marvelous job! I thoroughly enjoyed reading this. 

Disclaimer: I own a Taurus Mk2 myself.

Allow me however to nitpick a bit - without taking away from the well deserved credit for this undertaking. 

I can't help but wonder if a better source would have allowed you to dig deeper in the differences of the amps. It's my impression - maybe a completely false one - that your main focus was the tonality, vocal character, soundstaging, imaging, separation, and maybe just a bit to a lesser extent, dynamics. I'm not sure though that the V800 is the last word in dynamics, detail retrieval, texture and resolution. Maybe you wrote less about texture, microdynamics and resolution because the V800 didn't feed the amps the most subtle nuances. I have never had the privilege of hearing any Violectric gear myself, but a lot of reviews tend not to regard the V800 as just good, not in the premier leage of (humanly priced) DACs, whereas most of the amps you reviewed are fairly established and at the top of their class. 
I read reviews saying the V281 doesn't have the best resolution and microdynamis. Maybe you didn't really go deeper into those properties because in lack of much nuance and differences, your attention simply wasn't drawn to those...

Could be I'm just seeing things and my blabber is nothing but a self fulfilling prophecy based on a shitload of hearsay  I just can't be sure now whether the source wasn't holding back the best among those amplifiers for said technical competences. 

Another thing I can't help: I would have loved to see some other big cannons in your comparison - but that will always be the case I guess  See this as a big compliment - your impressions are simply very helpful and a fun read. I would e.g. be very interested in Taurus vs Ragnarok, Taurus vs something Cavalli, ... (maybe Headamp GS-X, Moon 430HA, thinking Innerfidelity's big sound-ish I guess). You wouldn't have any impressions already by coincidence ardilla?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I wonder how the wa22 stacks up against the wa5le v2


----------



## whirlwind

Hansotek said:


> I do still have the Glenn OTL. I am a huge fan of that amp. I usually listen to the HD800 a little more on the Milo, but it is great on the Glenn too. Most of my personal listening (non-review, input or production listening) of late has been with the Atticus and the Glenn OTL. Don't expect neutrality, but as far as musicality goes, it is tough to beat, IMO. Tubes (especially OTLs, in my experience) give Atticus a really sweet midrange bloom that makes it super sweet and musical.
> 
> To answer your other question Atticus has more midbass than Ori but not as much subbass extension. Atticus definitely has more bass weight than Ori. I also pair it with the DanaCable Lazuli ($549 (which I know isn't for everybody)), which is a super meaty and thick sounding cable, and it makes Atticus the thickest, meatiest headphone I have heard. Like a significantly better version of the pre-fazor LCD-2, in some ways (better stage and imaging, but less bass extension). Great 1, 2 punch with my HD800 because they are such different approaches.




Sounds like what I am looking for...thanks for the response.

My son is listening to my HD800 and the Glenn OTL this morning.

When he leaves this evening, maybe I will go in an listen to HD800 with the OTL


----------



## ardilla (Sep 2, 2017)

CoLdAsSauLt said:


> Marvelous job! I thoroughly enjoyed reading this.
> 
> Disclaimer: I own a Taurus Mk2 myself.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your praise and thoughts, and you certainly have a point - the source will play a role. I actually used three DACs, the* V800, the Hegel HD25 and the Audio-gd Master 7* - which is clearly the better of the three. The V800 is good, but not marvelous.The reason I ended up using the V800 *the most* was because it is good enough, and the ability to easily adjust volume made comparison easier, because during the process of comparing it is essential to make sure you are comparing quality and not volume. I see now that I have neglected to specify what sources I used where in full extent in the review and will update that information soon, thanks for pointing that out  But I can assure you that when comparing the top amps - like HP4 and V281 - I made sure to use the Master 7 (at least some of the time). I generally tried to use multiple sources with the amps too -  to get a general feeling - but all of my listening session are of course not logged.

You write:
_"It's my impression - maybe a completely false one - that your main focus was the tonality, vocal character, soundstaging, imaging, separation, and maybe just a bit to a lesser extent, dynamics….. Maybe you wrote less about texture, microdynamics and resolution because the V800 didn't feed the amps the most subtle nuances. "_

My wording maybe makes it seem that way, but that was not my intention, nor did I actively try to avoid describing dynamics or other traits by purpose. The answer lies not as much in the shortcomings of the DAC, as in my limited "working vocabulary" for this review. I kept to the same words to keep it simpler for myself, I guess. Keep in mind that comparing this many amps in a consistent way is not easy. I wish I could have been more elaborate, but to be honest, it just became too much and too complicated and took too much time. This review was tedious work..

But even if I didn't _write_ equally much about those traits you mention, doesn't mean I didn't listen for them. I did, I always do (as we all do, I would believe ,). But I tried to write shortly about the _differences_. Another point is that if I didn't comment on it, it wasn't something that I regarded a significant difference. If both amps have great texture, micro dynamics and resolution, I didn't always write "….. both amps have great texture, micro dynamics and resolution.." if you get my point  Further, many of those traits are overlapping. For instance, the term "detail" will in a broad way cover both micro-dynamics, texture and resolution.

With regards to your request for more high end amps, I will not do a full round of comparisons again - but will add comments to the review whenever I review a relevant amp. I hope to review the big Schiit and the 430HA sometime soon - and since I own the Taurus, it will be compared ,)


----------



## twiceboss

Thenewguy007 said:


> That's a huge list of amps you tested & compared. Was it done cumulatively or did you have all that gear at the same time?


True, that was a damn long and informative review I've ever seen.

Keep updating!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff (Sep 3, 2017)

next time I go to the Schiitr I'll try to do a comparison review of the whole line of amps.

spoiler they're all powerful and linear, and if HD800 is too bright go multibit; tubes can't fix delta sigma


----------



## protoss

ardilla said:


> I recently posted a review where I compare a range of amplifiers with the HD800:
> 
> *THE BEST AMP FOR SENNHEISER HD800?
> A BIG AMPLIFIER COMPARISON REVIEW*
> ...



That was a amazing comparison!!!

You got everything right. 

My order was :

1. Violectric V281
2. Auralic Taurus mkII
3. DNA Stratus 
4. Woo WA2 / WA22 = tie 
5. Violectric V200 / Burson Conductor V2 = tie


*This thread should be closed now. *

You solved the issue onces and for all! 

Cheers


----------



## ardilla

protoss said:


> That was a amazing comparison!!!
> 
> You got everything right.
> 
> ...



Wow - that was very similar indeed =) I have no problem with seeing why you put the Taurus above the Woo's, at least to me it's a matter of taste. The DNA I have never heard - but read good stuff about. 

Whenever I put on my reviewer's hat, I have this little fear that nobody will hear the same things as I do.. Feedback like this makes my reviewer's hart very happy. Cheers!


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Interestingly, I recall that @Wildcatsare1 found the Auralic Taurus mkII to be wonderful for the HE1000 as well... might be the first "do-it-all-well" amp!


----------



## ardilla

ruthieandjohn said:


> Interestingly, I recall that @Wildcatsare1 found the Auralic Taurus mkII to be wonderful for the HE1000 as well... might be the first "do-it-all-well" amp!



Yup - it is very good with the HE-1000, and most (or all) headphones I have tried. It is a great amp, the Taurus (mkI and mkII alike).


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

ruthieandjohn said:


> Interestingly, I recall that @Wildcatsare1 found the Auralic Taurus mkII to be wonderful for the HE1000 as well... might be the first "do-it-all-well" amp!



Makes me wonder why there is not all too much love around for the amp. The Vega, well yes, but the Taurus Mk2... seems a bit outdated if the fuzz is anything to go by. Tyll didn't even include it in his big sound back in 2015... just replaced his with the Moon Neo 430 HA. 
Forum discussions are often (for solid state amps) about the Violectric V281, Headamp GS-X Mk2, Moon Neo 430 HA, maybe something Cavalli... as if the Taurus Mk2 isn't among the highest hitters any more. Made me suffer from upgraditis already, but selling a Taurus and loosing a lot of money that way, to buy a V281 (I'm quite sensitive to treble so GS-X Mk2 could be dangerous) seems like washing a lot of money through the drain for something that maybe is more of a sidegrade than an upgrade (at least not worth hundreds of euros). Unless others think there sure are upgrade paths that are worthwhile?


----------



## ardilla

CoLdAsSauLt said:


> Makes me wonder why there is not all too much love around for the amp. The Vega, well yes, but the Taurus Mk2... seems a bit outdated if the fuzz is anything to go by. Tyll didn't even include it in his big sound back in 2015... just replaced his with the Moon Neo 430 HA.
> Forum discussions are often (for solid state amps) about the Violectric V281, Headamp GS-X Mk2, Moon Neo 430 HA, maybe something Cavalli... as if the Taurus Mk2 isn't among the highest hitters any more. Made me suffer from upgraditis already, but selling a Taurus and loosing a lot of money that way, to buy a V281 (I'm quite sensitive to treble so GS-X Mk2 could be dangerous) seems like washing a lot of money through the drain for something that maybe is more of a sidegrade than an upgrade (at least not worth hundreds of euros). Unless others think there sure are upgrade paths that are worthwhile?



I think the reason the Taurus gets less attention is because it used to be in the upper range both in cost and performance. Now there are amps that are higher in _both _cost and performance. Lets not forget that the Taurus is less than _half _the price of the Moon 430 or GS-X. The V281 is way closer in price. It is better, but not by more than the price difference should give you reasons to expect. Taurus is still giving good value for money.


----------



## daltonlanny (Sep 4, 2017)

I find it odd and confusing too, that Tyll seemed to love the Auralic Taurus Mark II, had it on the Wall of Fame, and then just completely stopped mentioning it, or comparing it to other amps with no explanation at all ??? Lol.
I think he mainly prefers the Sim Audio Moon 430 for its feature set over the Taurus II, rather than for any major sonic improvements by reading the article.
From a brief comparison at a friends house, I personally feel the Auralic to be just as transparent, and even slightly more extended in the highs than the Sim Audio.
The Sim Audio sounded somewhat "thick", slightly more closed in, and not quite as fast as the Auralic, believe it or not.
Strangely, Tyll doesn't seem to be particularly impressed by the Violectric V281, by reading his Big Sound 2015 article on amps.
Personally, I would love to compare my Auralic Taurus MK II with a Violectric V281 someday, and see how they compare to one another.


----------



## Moochibond (Sep 4, 2017)

Here is a paragraph taken from inner fidelity review regarding the Cayin iHA-6 & mentioning the Auralic Taurus Mark II:

"So, how does the iHA-6 sound? I could go on an on about it but I'm going to start by referring you to my review of the excellent Auralic TAURUS mkII. Why would I bring up that particular amp, which was formerly on the Wall of Fame and used as a reference by both Tyll and myself? Because the Cayin iHA-6 sounds nearly identical. Seriously. I knew I liked the Cayin right from the start but it took a while to come to the realization that I've heard this sound before. That neutral tone, the fast and clean treble, the tight, well-controlled bass response, the precision imaging... I actually had both amps running side by side for quite some time and I'm not sure I could reliably tell them apart. Keep in mind the Auralic unit sells for $1,899 which is nearly double the Cayin's price."

Read more at https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/cayin-idac-6-and-iha-6-dynamic-duo-page-3#qAV7kaMzIw4LSm6g.99


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

Moochibond said:


> Here is a paragraph taken from inner fidelity review regarding the Cayin iHA-6 & mentioning the Auralic Taurus Mark II:
> 
> "So, how does the iHA-6 sound? I could go on an on about it but I'm going to start by referring you to my review of the excellent Auralic TAURUS mkII. Why would I bring up that particular amp, which was formerly on the Wall of Fame and used as a reference by both Tyll and myself? Because the Cayin iHA-6 sounds nearly identical. Seriously. I knew I liked the Cayin right from the start but it took a while to come to the realization that I've heard this sound before. That neutral tone, the fast and clean treble, the tight, well-controlled bass response, the precision imaging... I actually had both amps running side by side for quite some time and I'm not sure I could reliably tell them apart. Keep in mind the Auralic unit sells for $1,899 which is nearly double the Cayin's price."
> 
> Read more at https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/cayin-idac-6-and-iha-6-dynamic-duo-page-3#qAV7kaMzIw4LSm6g.99




Yeah I read that too. I know John Grandberg @project86 kept using it as a reference point, also for his V281 review,... He's always been a good reference point to me, I tend to hear the stuff he so eloquently puts to words, so then you start keeping track of that person's reviews 

On the other hand, more opinions and "data triangulation", be it very subjective here, is always a good thing. 

I found it simply strange that the Taurus Mk2 was omitted in @Tyll Hertsens 's big sound 2015. Yes, maybe it's not the newest of the bunch, but therefore it mustn't be automatically disregarded/superseded, right? It didn't have the chance to prove itself against the other amps because it couldn't even play along. I would have loved to see all the other reviewer's opinions and their respective ranking of the Taurus amidst the other heavy hitters. 

John's final remark about the Cayin makes the added value/price tag of the big boys even more relative/questionable, which again makes me wonder where the Taurus Mk2, as well as the Cayin, would rank in a big-soundish comparison.

For all we know it could just as well end up higher than expected/suggested by the omission, along the lines of @daltonlanny 's findings...


----------



## ardilla (Sep 5, 2017)

CoLdAsSauLt said:


> Yeah I read that too. I know John Grandberg @project86 kept using it as a reference point, also for his V281 review,... He's always been a good reference point to me, I tend to hear the stuff he so eloquently puts to words, so then you start keeping track of that person's reviews
> 
> On the other hand, more opinions and "data triangulation", be it very subjective here, is always a good thing.
> 
> ...



I think John is underplaying the difference of the unbalanced and balanced mode of the Taurus in the quote below. The two outputs are similar sounding, but can make a whole lot of difference.
When I compared the Taurus using the HD800 to the HDVD800 in un-balanced mode, I preferred the HDVD800. But in balanced mode, I preferred the Taurus by a good margin. I tested this several times. I even tested it with both the Taurus mk1 and mk2. (I couldn't hear the difference between them, btw) For the HD800, the balanced mode of the Taurus is simply in another league.

Further, it is not only the HD800 that sounds a lot better, or at least different, from the balanced mode of the Taurus. And I didn't think the HDVD800 sounded better from the balanced output, so I am not a "balanced is always better guy" ,)

So when John is comparing the Cayin iHA-6 (which I have not heard myself) to the UN-balanced output of the Taurus, I simply cannot agree with him that it is the relevant comparison to make.
He is saying that the Caiyn's and the Taurus' balanced mode isn't "quite the same thing", but to me the difference between the two modes of the Taurus is so significant that it would be worth the price difference between the Cayin and the Taurus.

Here is the quote:
_



..balanced out on the iHA-6 sounds very similar to the single-ended jack on the Auralic amp. So if you tried a TAURUS using the XLR out and wanted that same sound from a more affordable amp, this isn't quite the same thing. But the Cayin XLR out is perhaps 95% the same as the TAURUS 1/4" output—Auralic at times felt ever so slightly more airy on the top end, which was only noticeable on rare occasions. Even less often, it felt like the TAURUS kept its composure better during really complex, layered recordings. Aside from that I'd say they were identical sonic twins. 

Click to expand...

_


----------



## bosiemoncrieff (Sep 5, 2017)

I like balanced too, but would rank it behind a bunch of things (multibit, presence of tubes, sonarworks, _quality of amp_) in terms of importance to HD800 (though tubes are decidedly a flavor rather than a quality question).


----------



## ardilla

Well, they are similar, especially when compared to each other. I didn't really get how big the difference was before I compared actively to other amps. And we are all a bit different, I guess - never to be forgotten


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I like balanced too, but would rank it behind a bunch of things (multibit, presence of tubes, sonarworks, _quality of amp_) in terms of importance to HD800 (though tubes are decidedly a flavor rather than a quality question).



What @ardilla is trying to say, is that "balanced" cannot be captured and/or quantified in the way you're trying to do here. Balanced is not 100% where single ended is 97%... it's all very dependant on the gear and its design. 

A well designed top end single ended amp can greatly outperform a more budget balanced amp.

In the case of the Taurus Mk2, the amp becomes a different animal in balanced mode. It uses a better internal technical design. It's a better quality amp in balanced mode than in single ended mode (where it uses kind of only half of the amp), to use your terms. 

In comparison, my DNA Stratus doesn't change all too much when using balanced mode. After all, most of the internal component path and technical specs remain the same, up to the point that the "mirror" signal is tapped off for balanced drive. It might have a bit more grip... but the -6dB damping (comes in handy with the Vega's hot output) and selectable output impedance only work on the single ended output, so that's actually the more versatile and attractive connection for me there, whereas my Taurus always runs balanced.


----------



## ardilla (Sep 6, 2017)

Totally true. I actually thought @bosiemoncrieff was saying that he liked _"...(Taurus) balanced too..."_ - but I see now that it's not necessarily what he meant. If he meant balanced in general, @CoLdAsSauLt  is definetly spot on. The Taurus is not the same amplifier in balanced mode because it has 4 output modules and runs them in different ways in STD and BAL mode. I'll quote an email from Auralic when I asked them:


> .... there are four output sections in each Taurus amp. In STD mode, each two of them are in parallel driving one channel. It will well suite low impedance as the output current is plenty but the output power driving high impedance is limited by maximum swing voltage. In BAL mode, two section are in bridged connection(BTL), it will offering 2x maximum swing voltage so the output  power at high impedance is four times higher, but at low impedance, since each section is bear half load which equal to 16ohm, the output is limited by output current.


----------



## Thenewguy007

protoss said:


> That was a amazing comparison!!!
> 
> You got everything right.
> 
> ...




So the Stratus didn't do it for you?


----------



## protoss

Thenewguy007 said:


> So the Stratus didn't do it for you?



It did do it for me. Just that theres soo many Amps out there! 

Oppo Ha-1 - Did it for me ! a little bright. I think its the dac 
Parasound Zdac v2  - Did it for me !


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

ardilla said:


> I recently posted a review where I compare a range of amplifiers with the HD800:
> 
> *THE BEST AMP FOR SENNHEISER HD800?
> A BIG AMPLIFIER COMPARISON REVIEW*
> ...



Amazing review! I just got extra time to finish reading your review. I really wanna hear the V281+HD800 combo and hope I could in the future. If you have any chance to try ECP amp, I would be looking forward to read you review. I thought it's a stellar match with HD800


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I would've preferred to see more Schiit represented in the list, but it's a solid overview yeah.


----------



## ardilla (Sep 9, 2017)

Thanks guy. @bosiemoncrieff  - there are just too many relevant amps to cover (and get hold of..) for one review. But I am planning to do some extensive coverage/comparisons of the Schiit-schiit not to long in the future. What amps are most interesting, do you think?

BTW - I just got the Trilogy 933 and Mytek Brooklyn on the bench - First impression is that they are both doing very well with the HD800


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

The tube lineup is more interesting for HD800 than the solid state, so I'd do Vali, Valhalla, Lyr, Mjolnir, and Rag.


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> The tube lineup is more interesting for HD800 than the solid state, so I'd do Vali, Valhalla, Lyr, Mjolnir, and Rag.



Yah!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

the bestie just came over and listened to phillip glass. HD800 beat the competition, and HE-6 was the second best.


----------



## Moochibond

Hi Bosie,

What is "the bestie"?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Moochibond said:


> Hi Bosie,
> 
> What is "the bestie"?


best friend is my take?


----------



## Moochibond

Ahh, yes, thanks


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

lol it's even better -- yes he is -- but he also makes his home in the west end, and in surrey on weekends


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig (Sep 12, 2017)

Hansotek said:


> Speaking of amps for the HD800, I just got done reviewing the Rogue RH-5, and I thought it sounded absolutely wonderful with the HD800. Super spacious and clean, with just a nice touch of tubey forgiveness to tame the top end without over-editorializing the sound. For those who don't know, Rogue Audio is a well-known name in the two-channel world, but this is the first dip into the headphone realm for them.
> 
> Anyway, I made a note to share the review on this thread once it posted, so here's a link:
> http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazi...5_Headphone_Amplifier_Preamplifier_Review.htm
> ...



 
I am listening to the RH-5 with the HD800 and also the Utopia. At first I liked the HD800 more with the amp (better synergy) then the Utopia. I felt like the Utopia got too warm sounding. Then I took out the Mojo for the DAC section and put the Parasound Zdac v.2 in its place. Big difference it made and it closed the gap. The space that you get with the HD800 with this amp is excellent. The music feels like it has room to breathe and is real airy. I think thats the magic between this amp and the HD800.  Listening to "Mercy" by Lorn on this combo is slamming...

Thanks for getting me to revisit this combo!

Oh btw, what is your gain setting that you like the most for the HD800?


----------



## Hansotek

MTMECraig said:


> I am listening to the RH-5 with the HD800 and also the Utopia. At first I liked the HD800 more with the amp (better synergy) then the Utopia. I felt like the Utopia got too warm sounding. Then I took out the Mojo for the DAC section and put the Parasound Zdac v.2 in its place. Big difference it made and it closed the gap. The space that you get with the HD800 with this amp is excellent. The music feels like it has room to breathe and is real airy. I think thats the magic between this amp and the HD800.  Listening to "Mercy" by Lorn on this combo is slamming...
> 
> Thanks for getting me to revisit this combo!
> 
> Oh btw, what is your gain setting that you like the most for the HD800?



I was using the middle gain setting on the HD800. It provided pretty precise control w/o having to make big swoops on the volume knob to make a significant volume change. I think really any of them work, but I liked gain 2 the best.


----------



## protoss

MTMECraig said:


> I am listening to the RH-5 with the HD800 and also the Utopia. At first I liked the HD800 more with the amp (better synergy) then the Utopia. I felt like the Utopia got too warm sounding. Then I took out the Mojo for the DAC section and put the Parasound Zdac v.2 in its place. Big difference it made and it closed the gap. The space that you get with the HD800 with this amp is excellent. The music feels like it has room to breathe and is real airy. I think thats the magic between this amp and the HD800.  Listening to "Mercy" by Lorn on this combo is slamming...
> 
> Thanks for getting me to revisit this combo!
> 
> Oh btw, what is your gain setting that you like the most for the HD800?




YES!! Another Parasound ZDAC.v2 Warrior! I secretly put it #1 everywhere....


----------



## Zoom25

I would love to know some parametric settings that people are using with Roon. Thanks!


----------



## mickerru

Is it ok to drive the hd800 with parasound zdac v2 alone or do you still need an amp? How is it compared to the valhalla 2. Thinking of driving my hd800 with this.


MTMECraig said:


> I am listening to the RH-5 with the HD800 and also the Utopia. At first I liked the HD800 more with the amp (better synergy) then the Utopia. I felt like the Utopia got too warm sounding. Then I took out the Mojo for the DAC section and put the Parasound Zdac v.2 in its place. Big difference it made and it closed the gap. The space that you get with the HD800 with this amp is excellent. The music feels like it has room to breathe and is real airy. I think thats the magic between this amp and the HD800.  Listening to "Mercy" by Lorn on this combo is slamming...
> 
> Thanks for getting me to revisit this combo!
> 
> Oh btw, what is your gain setting that you like the most for the HD800?


----------



## MattTCG (Sep 24, 2017)

It's been a while since I've posted in this thread. Just to recap my personal desktop setup:

Mimby>jitterbug>LH Labs usb>Kimber Hero RCA>*ampsandsound Kenzie w/stock tubes *(the amp is my new edition just a few weeks ago). I'm in process of writing a review for the Kenzie. I came very close to purchasing the amp at the Atlanta meet over a year ago but couldn't quite raise the cash at the time. Then I got another chance to grab the Kenzie for a good price recently and didn't hesitate this time.

The Kezie is now my personal favorite amp for the hd800. I've owned, auditioned and reviewed many amps over the past several years but none have taken me to the same level of enjoyment with the hd800 as the Kenzie. My last two tube amps were the Woo wa2 and Torpedo iii. IMO the Kenzie easily bests them both (and I was a fan of both wa2 and tiii). Even with some expensive NOS tubes the wa2 gave up a bit too much resolution and came across as somewhat overly tubey at times. The tiii is the amp that I sold to purchase the Kenzie. I was hesitant to give it up as the tiii is a very good headamp and just doesn't do much wrong, especially when it comes to dynamic driver headphones. Ultimately though, it was a good decision to part with the tiii as the Kenzie improves on the tiii across the board.

Why is the Kenzie so good? Of course it will often come down to synergy and preferences. For me, the Kenzie is a tube amp that doesn't come across as overly syrupy but still captures the better qualities of tube amps. Great bass extension with just a touch of bloom, treble is crisp with good clarity with no harsh edge and then there's the mids. They are liquid and intoxicating, some of the best I've heard on any setup at any price. I believe that some of the Kenzie magic comes from the 600 ohm tap. It just seems to lite up the hd800 in a very good way, leading to the some of the best dynamics I've heard from the 800.

It's still a little early in the process but I'm pretty sure that I've found the amp that I've been looking to settle down with for the long haul. More to come...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff (Sep 17, 2017)

I'm amid a solid-state kick for the moment. LISST, with multibit sound, is quite sufficient to make HD800 an exceptionally detailed, musical listening experience. Right now I have MJ2 around 10:30 or 11 and it's plenty loud (low gain, obviously). Panache, of course, is for K1000 and HE-6, though for the first time today I heard buzz with HE-6. As an integrated amp, it could be quieter.


----------



## kylev

Sorrodje said:


> My HD800 is already my go to headphone for EDM .


Same here man .. its really nice.. I reached out to my HD800 more than my LCD-X nowadays.

Planning to share my impressions on HD800 SDR with some of my aftermarket cables.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

It's always the right time for a writeup!


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

kylev said:


> Same here man .. its really nice.. I reached out to my HD800 more than my LCD-X nowadays.
> 
> Planning to share my impressions on HD800 SDR with some of my aftermarket cables.



Me too. HD800 (SDR mod) works surprising well with EDM


----------



## FLTWS (Sep 25, 2017)

[QUOTE="bosiemoncrieff, "Right now I have MJ2 around 10:30 or 11 and it's plenty loud (low gain, obviously)." [/QUOTE]

Same approximate volume settings here with MJ2 tubed, Jotunheim, or Ragnarok, on low gain as well. All 3 have a dead quiet background.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

I am listening to the HD800 on the RH-5 to Neil Young's "Live at Massey Hall 1971" and it's simply excellent. I put the Utopias on to hear what I liked more, but with this album I am getting more enjoyment with the HD800's. I don't know if the album benefits from more width or what, but Its perfect to my ears.


----------



## FLTWS

MTMECraig said:


> I am listening to the HD800 on the RH-5 to Neil Young's "Live at Massey Hall 1971" and it's simply excellent. I put the Utopias on to hear what I liked more, but with this album I am getting more enjoyment with the HD800's. I don't know if the album benefits from more width or what, but Its perfect to my ears.



I've got an RH-5 on order, looking forward to putting it thru it's paces versus my Schiit stuff.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

FLTWS said:


> I've got an RH-5 on order, looking forward to putting it thru it's paces versus my Schiit stuff.


Tell us what you think when you get some head time with it. Like Yoda would say, the Synergy is strong with this one...


----------



## FLTWS

MTMECraig said:


> Tell us what you think when you get some head time with it. Like Yoda would say, the Synergy is strong with this one...



Will do.


----------



## Shetzu

kylev said:


> Same here man .. its really nice.. I reached out to my HD800 more than my LCD-X nowadays.
> 
> Planning to share my impressions on HD800 SDR with some of my aftermarket cables.


I was planning to buy the LCD 2 as a compliment to my HD800. Do you think it is worthwhile.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Only for <$400


----------



## Painterspal

Shetzu said:


> I was planning to buy the LCD 2 as a compliment to my HD800. Do you think it is worthwhile.


I didn’t keep mine long once I’d bought my HD800, so no, unless you have specific tastes that you think the LCD2 will satisfy.


----------



## ardilla

Lots of reasons to have both the LCD-2 and the HD800 if you ask me - they are very different.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

My lcd2 was sold long ago but I have to be honest that I miss the lcd2. It's great to have both actually.


----------



## protoss

Shetzu said:


> I was planning to buy the LCD 2 as a compliment to my HD800. Do you think it is worthwhile.



No, stay away from Audeze. All Audeze. 
Heavy, sweaty, neck pains, big .

Get STAXS! Invest in staxs. 

#staxsbro 

And once you go staxs you will never ever go back to these planar and dynamic drivers


----------



## PinkyPowers

Shetzu said:


> I was planning to buy the LCD 2 as a compliment to my HD800. Do you think it is worthwhile.



I picked up an HD800 a few months ago to be a compliment to my LCD-2. Between these two headphones, you have all you'll ever need.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Shetzu said:


> I was planning to buy the LCD 2 as a compliment to my HD800. Do you think it is worthwhile.



Most definitely IMO! Very complimentary headphones!


----------



## DavidA

Shetzu said:


> I was planning to buy the LCD 2 as a compliment to my HD800. Do you think it is worthwhile.


Like most have said they make great complimentary headphones but the LCD-2 does have weight issues for some.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

DavidA said:


> Like most have said they make great complimentary headphones but the LCD-2 does have weight issues for some.



The only reason I sell my lcd2 was due to it's weight. I love everything about it except that it's heavy. Oh I wish that audeze can produce a lighter but same exceptional sound as the lcd2... Oh I wish


----------



## Shetzu (Nov 27, 2017)

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> The only reason I sell my lcd2 was due to it's weight. I love everything about it except that it's heavy. Oh I wish that audeze can produce a lighter but same exceptional sound as the lcd2... Oh I wish





Painterspal said:


> I didn’t keep mine long once I’d bought my
> 
> HD800, so no, unless you have specific tastes that you think the LCD2 will satisfy.


I know the Audrez is good in planars and different in sound and can complement the HD800 well but the weight in my opinion is making me think twice.
Any other choice in similar category would be helpful


----------



## Shetzu

Painterspal said:


> I didn’t keep mine long once I’d bought my HD800, so no, unless you have specific tastes that you think the LCD2 will satisfy.





ahmadfaizadnan said:


> My lcd2 was sold long ago but I have to be honest that I miss the lcd2. It's great to have both actually.


Thanks for your inputs. Have anyone of you tried the Focal Elear or something similar in the pricing of $1k


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Shetzu said:


> Thanks for your inputs. Have anyone of you tried the Focal Elear or something similar in the pricing of $1k



I tried Elear and I know a lot of people praise it but it doesn't impressed me. My modded HD6XX sounds close to Elear via Liquid Carbon (compare them side by side), but lcd2 took me less than 30 seconds to make me fall in love with the sound. But yeah, the weight hurts.


----------



## Shetzu

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I tried Elear and I know a lot of people praise it but it doesn't impressed me. My modded HD6XX sounds close to Elear via Liquid Carbon (compare them side by side), but lcd2 took me less than 30 seconds to make me fall in love with the sound. But yeah, the weight hurts.


Thanks. Many have told me LCD has a  very different sound and is the best to compliment HD800. I am very much inclined to buy the LCD 2. For weight I guess I have to compromise that. Thanks anyways. I appreciate your inputs.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Shetzu said:


> Thanks. Many have told me LCD has a  very different sound and is the best to compliment HD800. I am very much inclined to buy the LCD 2. For weight I guess I have to compromise that. Thanks anyways. I appreciate your inputs.



No problem. Do let us know if it suits you but I can assure that it'll compliment the HD800.


----------



## DavidA (Sep 28, 2017)

Shetzu said:


> Thanks. Many have told me LCD has a  very different sound and is the best to compliment HD800. I am very much inclined to buy the LCD 2. For weight I guess I have to compromise that. Thanks anyways. I appreciate your inputs.


Another planar that might interest you is the M1060 from Monoprice, while it didn't impress me for the hype around them they are priced at $300, weigh a bit less than the LCD-2.  Some say the M1060 is as good or better than the LCD-2 but for me it was not the case but they are still very different from the HD800 so it would still be a good complimentary headphone IMO.  If you are interested in other headphones for a different sound signature you might also want to try the HD650 which is quite different from the HD800 and is considered an end game by some.


----------



## whirlwind

Shetzu said:


> I know the Audrez is good in planars and different in sound and can compliment the HD800 well but the weight in my opinion is making me think twice.
> Any other choice in similar category would be helpful



I use a ZMF Ori as a compliment to the HD800....maybe an atticus or Eikon could serve well also.
the Ori is a tad heavy, but very comfy and the weight does not bother me.....killer bass too


----------



## thecrow

Shetzu said:


> I was planning to buy the LCD 2 as a compliment to my HD800. Do you think it is worthwhile.


Absolutely!!!

I started with the the hd800 and now have both. Complement each other well. 

I had thought about the he560 as I almost bought that before I found the hd800 but then when revisiting the he560 I found it kinda too similar to the hd800, or at least I started Eqing it towards the hd800. The lcd2 is a different sound and is a great complement. 

However with the elear price drop this month I would demo both the elear and the lcd2 with this amp and see what you prefer. It’s my set up (woo wa2) the lcd2 won but with other gear and other ears it may be the elear that’s the preferred option


----------



## ardilla

Shetzu said:


> I was planning to buy the LCD 2 as a compliment to my HD800. Do you think it is worthwhile.



If the weight is a problem depends on the user - I find fit more important than weight. The PM1 is a also a headphone that would complement the HD800 nicely, and very comfortable alternative to the LCD-2.


----------



## FLTWS

ardilla said:


> ... "The PM1 is a also a headphone that would complement the HD800 nicely, and very comfortable alternative to the LCD-2.



That's why I hang on to mine. It's also my understanding that the less expensive PM-2 sounds exactly the same as the PM-1 but doesn't get the fancy packaging.


----------



## ardilla

FLTWS said:


> That's why I hang on to mine. It's also my understanding that the less expensive PM-2 sounds exactly the same as the PM-1 but doesn't get the fancy packaging.



Never got to compare them directly, but can I assure you that the weight Oppo didn't put into the headphones is included in the completely useless and very heavy fancy box


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

DavidA said:


> Another planar that might interest you is the M1060 from MassDrop, while it didn't impress me for the hype around them they are priced at $300, weigh a bit less than the LCD-2.  Some say the M1060 is as good or better than the LCD-2 but for me it was not the case but they are still very different from the HD800 so it would still be a good complimentary headphone IMO.  If you are interested in other headphones for a different sound signature you might also want to try the HD650 which is quite different from the HD800 and is considered an end game by some.



Does MassDrop has M1060 now? or shortly?


----------



## DavidA

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Does MassDrop has M1060 now? or shortly?


Been available for quite some time, link to tread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-monolith-m1060-and-m560-planar-headphones.820107/


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

DavidA said:


> Been available for quite some time, link to tread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-monolith-m1060-and-m560-planar-headphones.820107/



Oh yeah, I am just wondering if they have a drop in MassDrop. Could get them with a lower price if they do.


----------



## DavidA

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Oh yeah, I am just wondering if they have a drop in MassDrop. Could get them with a lower price if they do.


Have never seen them on MassDrop


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Weight of LCD2 will probably get tiring after long listening sessions. BUT your neck will adjust and get stronger (unless you have some type of neck problem to begin with...) I have said this before, demoing the LCD 2 and living with it are 2 different things. I own a similarly sized headphone and I don't even think twice about it now. 

The HD800 for me is pretty much king of comfort though... So the size and weight will be a huge difference ha.


----------



## DavidA

MTMECraig said:


> Weight of LCD2 will probably get tiring after long listening sessions. BUT your neck will adjust and get stronger (unless you have some type of neck problem to begin with...) I have said this before, demoing the LCD 2 and living with it are 2 different things. I own a similarly sized headphone and I don't even think twice about it now.
> 
> The HD800 for me is pretty much king of comfort though... So the size and weight will be a huge difference ha.


The comfort of the HD800 is better than average but for some there can be a hot spot.  HD700 and SRH-1840 are what I would consider the most comfortable.  For some like my old GF she was never able to listen to any of the LCD series headphone due to weight and also clamping force, if she looked down without thinking any of the LCD series would just fall off, granted she is tiny, 5-2 (157.5cm) and 96lb (43.5kg) after dinner and my current GF while slightly bigger (159.5cm, 46.5kg) still has issues with the LCD falling off.


----------



## PinkyPowers

MTMECraig said:


> Weight of LCD2 will probably get tiring after long listening sessions. BUT your neck will adjust and get stronger (unless you have some type of neck problem to begin with...) I have said this before, demoing the LCD 2 and living with it are 2 different things. I own a similarly sized headphone and I don't even think twice about it now.
> 
> The HD800 for me is pretty much king of comfort though... So the size and weight will be a huge difference ha.



That's been my experience, as well. The LCD-2 just takes getting used to. I'll never call it comfortable, but after a few weeks, it's no longer "uncomfortable" either. You just need to build up some neck muscles, and you get to do so whilst listening to an amazing headphone.


----------



## Astral Abyss

PinkyPowers said:


> That's been my experience, as well. The LCD-2 just takes getting used to. I'll never call it comfortable, but after a few weeks, it's no longer "uncomfortable" either. You just need to build up some neck muscles, and you get to do so whilst listening to an amazing headphone.



I think we're all a bit different.  I actually find the LCD-2 to be more comfortable to wear for a couple hours than I do the HD800.  I constantly have to readjust the HD800 because it flops around too much and digs into my head behind my ears.  The weight has never been an issue on any headphone for me... even the LCD-XC.


----------



## Shetzu

ardilla said:


> If the weight is a problem depends on the user - I find fit more important than weight. The PM1 is a also a headphone that would complement the HD800 nicely, and very comfortable alternative to the LCD-2.


Thanks. I too did a bit of the research myself and agree with you on the Comfort of PM1 but I fid the ear cups a bit too small for my liking and crammed. Also my taste perhaps for the open back planars. Though I have the LCd2 on top of my list but have not turned down PM1. Just looking for a different sound to my HD800 thats all.


----------



## Shetzu

thecrow said:


> Absolutely!!!
> 
> I started with the the hd800 and now have both. Complement each other well.
> 
> ...


Hey Thanks for the encouragement. I maybe getting inclined towards to the LCD2. I tried the elear and found it a bit too bassy and noisy for my likes though. Yeah, many people told me that he560 sounds similar to the HD800. No wonder I am looking for a different sounding HP. However, keep me posted as to your trial with the Elear and what you think. Cheers


----------



## Shetzu

whirlwind said:


> I use a ZMF Ori as a compliment to the HD800....maybe an atticus or Eikon could serve well also.
> the Ori is a tad heavy, but very comfy and the weight does not bother me.....killer bass too


Thanks. Will try to get a trial of the listed Hp before I make my plunge.


----------



## Shetzu

DavidA said:


> Another planar that might interest you is the M1060 from MassDrop, while it didn't impress me for the hype around them they are priced at $300, weigh a bit less than the LCD-2.  Some say the M1060 is as good or better than the LCD-2 but for me it was not the case but they are still very different from the HD800 so it would still be a good complimentary headphone IMO.  If you are interested in other headphones for a different sound signature you might also want to try the HD650 which is quite different from the HD800 and is considered an end game by some.


Thanks. Dont like the built quality of the M1060. After all I intend to keep the HP for long and has to be something well made. HD650 is dated now. Thanks anyway.


----------



## kernel8888

anyone know If you can do a SDR Mod on a hd700?


----------



## DavidA

kernel8888 said:


> anyone know If you can do a SDR Mod on a hd700?


You might get a better response if you posted this on the HD700 thread but I don't believe its possible since the drivers for the HD700 don't have the hole in the driver like the HD800 where the resonator goes.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I suppose after 1745 pages, Audeze and HD700 become fair game...

I will say re weight that I'm surprised Audeze hasn't yet put up the LCD-Pro they showed at SoCal CanJam. It was remarkably light. I suppose the short answer is get an iSine20, or the LCD i4 if weight is a problem


----------



## qqqqdd123

Have listened to my HD800s for nearly 1 month. This is exactly what I hope for a flagship headphone. (Although the price is not one of the highest) HD800 is the top of dynamic headphones and I think it surpass K812 and T1 in terms of resolution and sound stage. I do not think overemphasize bass in headphone or IEM is a clever way because this is an inherently drawback compared to speakers. HD800s just make the bass accurate and spent more energy in refining mid and treble which are better to present for headphones and IEMs. With a warm amp, you will get a balanced sound and I will call it *Reference*.


----------



## Shetzu

qqqqdd123 said:


> Have listened to my HD800s for nearly 1 month. This is exactly what I hope for a flagship headphone. (Although the price is not one of the highest) HD800 is the top of dynamic headphones and I think it surpass K812 and T1 in terms of resolution and sound stage. I do not think overemphasize bass in headphone or IEM is a clever way because this is an inherently drawback compared to speakers. HD800s just make the bass accurate and spent more energy in refining mid and treble which are better to present for headphones and IEMs. With a warm amp, you will get a balanced sound and I will call it *Reference*.


Agree there. Goes well for me with Burson which is warm .


----------



## thecrow

Shetzu said:


> Agree there. Goes well for me with Burson which is warm .


I wouldnt consider the burson warm but it does playwell with the bottom end of the hd800(s) and i would guess it would work nicely with the warm tint of the mojo however


----------



## Shetzu

thecrow said:


> I wouldnt consider the burson warm but it does playwell with the bottom end of the hd800(s) and i would guess it would work nicely with the warm tint of the mojo however


Thats the combination I use for my Hd800. ( Burson+Mojo )


----------



## theheadfier

Shetzu said:


> Thats the combination I use for my Hd800. ( Burson+Mojo )



Hey, how would you compare the sound of the Mojo alone (as DAC+amp) versus Mojo as DAC + Burson as amp?


----------



## sikki-six

After several years of being afraid of too much treble (and looking for a good deal), I finally got myself a used pair a few months ago. Watching metal571's videos about how well these work with EQ was probably the deciding factor. And, yeah these are some capable headphones, and then some.

Here's my video review and comparison against my trusty LCD-2.1's


----------



## Shetzu (Oct 5, 2017)

sikki-six said:


> After several years of being afraid of too much treble (and looking for a good deal), I finally got myself a used pair a few months ago. Watching metal571's videos about how well these work with EQ was probably the deciding factor. And, yeah these are some capable headphones, and then some.
> 
> Here's my video review and comparison against my trusty LCD-2.1's



Very Good Comparison on 800 & LCD2.
I was looking forward to a good review like you mentioned as I am wanting to buy the LCD 2 as compliment HP to my Hd800. 
Never used Equaliser yet. Prefer pure Raw sound. I prefer using warm hardware to get the peak of 6Khz of Hd800 tamed and so go myself the SD mod and in my opinion the HDs sound superb.


----------



## Shetzu

theheadfier said:


> Hey, how would you compare the sound of the Mojo alone (as DAC+amp) versus Mojo as DAC + Burson as amp?


Since Hd800 is bright and Mojo too is a bit bright  I prefer using my setup for better sound as mentioned above that is using mojo & Burson Combo. Just using Mojo with Hd800 I feel something missing. Cheers


----------



## kylev

protoss said:


> No, stay away from Audeze. All Audeze.
> Heavy, sweaty, neck pains, big .
> 
> Get STAXS! Invest in staxs.
> ...


Hahaha... I am having LCD-X and it is quite heavy, I must say, especially after long hours of usage.
After some thoughts, I got myself L700 paired with 717 Amp, they are really good pair!
Anyway, I think this setup is enough for now to compliment my HD800 SDR


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Yeah LCD-X is needless. 

Just to be very reductive, we all recognize that there are "analytical" sounding headphones and "easy listening euphonic" headphones. I find that SR009 is the best I've heard of the former and SR007 is the best I've heard of the latter (Orpheus is the only headphone I've heard that masters both). I look forward tremendously to having the resources to get the requisite amplification (and am considering the 'cheap KGSSHV', depending on how it is reviewed). Although they can't compete with HD800 and K1000 on soundstage, they would certainly round out my collection, and likely be my go-to cans for a while. I can't imagine needing a utopia with an 007 on hand, though naturally unless I have both 007 and 009 the cost of quality e-stat amplification (indeed, entry-level e-stat amplification) would make the purchase not only prohibitive but frivolous. I should say that I am extremely reluctant to let go of components, and only do so when I really have no use for them whatsoever (as was the case with q701) and then I give them away to friends with less disposable income. 

Considering making vali 1 part of a "nightstand stack" when the gadget comes out. Gadget, Mimby, Loki, and Vali would be a beautiful stack for late night HD800 listening, perhaps with a permanently-attached iPad.


----------



## headwhacker (Oct 8, 2017)

Anyone thinking of getting a cable from bestinverse custom cable. Please be forwarned that it may lead only to disappointment. I had a cable ordered on July and supposed to ship a couple of weeks ago which Zach confirmed. But until now there is no sign of any shipment and my repeated emails no longer getting any response.

I am now trying to open a dispute with Paypal.


----------



## PinkyPowers

headwhacker said:


> Anyone thinking of getting a cable from bestinverse custom cable.



I could never buy from a company with a name like that. Might as well call themselves *We Don't Suck. Honest!*


----------



## artpiggo

Any recommended website that sells HD800 earpad and ship to worldwide?


----------



## Shetzu

headwhacker said:


> Anyone thinking of getting a cable from bestinverse custom cable. Please be forwarned that it may lead only to disappointment. I had a cable ordered on July and supposed to ship a couple of weeks ago which Zach confirmed. But until now there is no sign of any shipment and my repeated emails no longer getting any response.
> 
> I am now trying to open a dispute with Paypal.


Tks for the update


----------



## protoss (Oct 9, 2017)

headwhacker said:


> Anyone thinking of getting a cable from bestinverse custom cable. Please be forwarned that it may lead only to disappointment. I had a cable ordered on July and supposed to ship a couple of weeks ago which Zach confirmed. But until now there is no sign of any shipment and my repeated emails no longer getting any response.
> 
> I am now trying to open a dispute with Paypal.



I order from bestintheverse before. It took 3 months for the cables to arrive. I was worry at first but it finally did arrive.
The cables are so-so. Nothing special.

@artpiggo
Here are cheap fake HD800 earpads :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Replacement...440552?hash=item1a37178f28:g:jpkAAOSw1MBZ2YrR

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Softer-Repl...155076?hash=item1a2a334e04:g:4r8AAOSwuspY-FBC

I have over 5 pairs !!. They are okay! Not amazing by any means! It dose the job! I actually prefer these over the original! Also Worldwide shipping !


@others

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ZY-HiFi-Cabl...204416?hash=item2a8c950b40:g:-QoAAOSwYS9ZaGbG

These are somewhat cheap cables. Changes the sound 5-10% . Build like a tank. Feels like a metallic snake. It's my to go cables for HD800


And if people believe in the magic of cables and wants the best of the best 

http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/...-Elear-Utopia-headphone-cable-occ-litz-copper

I see no point in owning these but here you go. Nothing's better


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

artpiggo said:


> Any recommended website that sells HD800 earpad and ship to worldwide?



Dekoni will have HD800 earpad on their website soon.


----------



## artpiggo

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Dekoni will have HD800 earpad on their website soon.



Thanks for info. I also come to like their facebook page.

I already pull trigger on ebay but I will buy this for comparison when it is available.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

artpiggo said:


> Thanks for info. I also come to like their facebook page.
> 
> I already pull trigger on ebay but I will buy this for comparison when it is available.



I tried them actually last weekend at canjam. It was much better than the stock pad because it's a hybrid (perforated if I am not mistaken) pad. I didn't have the opportunity to listen to it but looking at the FR with and without the pad; with the pad, the 6k spike is lowered to somewhere around 2db to 3db. It's really comfy too


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Content advisory warning: Sonarworks discussed.

I need to make sure Sonarworks is installed on my macbook pro in advance of next weekend's trip to the Schiitr, as I am eager (/anxious) to discover the extent to which @Baldr's Gadget will play nicely with digital EQ. My suspicion is that it won't, that Sonarworks will be distorted precisely to the degree of the gadget's tuning everything down. This means that any EQ would have to be analog, or shifted up to account for the gadget's retuning. Maybe in a future gadget, there could be a display to tell the user exactly the number of hertz that the sound is being moved. Maybe SW could partner with Schiit to load a forthcoming Loki Maxi with preset very precise EQs.

I put this here because HD600 is practically flat already, and I don't know of any other cans so notoriously requiring EQ as HD800...


----------



## Shetzu

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Content advisory warning: Sonarworks discussed.
> 
> I need to make sure Sonarworks is installed on my macbook pro in advance of next weekend's trip to the Schiitr, as I am eager (/anxious) to discover the extent to which @Baldr's Gadget will play nicely with digital EQ. My suspicion is that it won't, that Sonarworks will be distorted precisely to the degree of the gadget's tuning everything down. This means that any EQ would have to be analog, or shifted up to account for the gadget's retuning. Maybe in a future gadget, there could be a display to tell the user exactly the number of hertz that the sound is being moved. Maybe SW could partner with Schiit to load a forthcoming Loki Maxi with preset very precise EQs.
> 
> I put this here because HD600 is practically flat already, and I don't know of any other cans so notoriously requiring EQ as HD800...



Have never used EQ for my HD.  Prefer to mix match hardware to make it sound good for my ears. So far using Mojo and Burson and all is good. Yes I did mod my HD 800 with SD mods.


----------



## DavidA

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Content advisory warning: Sonarworks discussed.
> 
> I need to make sure Sonarworks is installed on my macbook pro in advance of next weekend's trip to the Schiitr, as I am eager (/anxious) to discover the extent to which @Baldr's Gadget will play nicely with digital EQ. My suspicion is that it won't, that Sonarworks will be distorted precisely to the degree of the gadget's tuning everything down. This means that any EQ would have to be analog, or shifted up to account for the gadget's retuning. Maybe in a future gadget, there could be a display to tell the user exactly the number of hertz that the sound is being moved. Maybe SW could partner with Schiit to load a forthcoming Loki Maxi with preset very precise EQs.
> 
> I put this here because HD600 is practically flat already, and I don't know of any other cans so notoriously requiring EQ as HD800...


I'm another that doesn't use EQ and have never felt the HD800 needed any EQ.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

DavidA said:


> I'm another that doesn't use EQ and have never felt the HD800 needed any EQ.


If you have the right amp paring with the HD800 I feel no need to EQ it... The HD800 is such a standard now and has been for years. It's not uncommon for a company to make sure an HD800 sounds "right" out of their desktop amp since its such a staple in the community. With that said, people's tolerances all deviate for treble sensitivity and sometimes the HD800 is just too sharp to them regardless of pairing. If thats the case get a tube amp with warm tubes if you prefer the wide and deep sound staging. 

As I have said before the RH5 from Rogue Audio has crazy good synergy with the HD800 and its a tube hybrid. The synergy isn't surprising to me after I learned that the HD800 was used extensively with the RH5 during development.


----------



## PinkyPowers

Yeah, no EQ here, either. On the NFB-28, it actually has a slightly warm characteristic. Very natural and organic-sounding.


----------



## FLTWS

MTMECraig said:


> If you have the right amp paring with the HD800 I feel no need to EQ it... The HD800 is such a standard now and has been for years. It's not uncommon for a company to make sure an HD800 sounds "right" out of their desktop amp since its such a staple in the community. With that said, people's tolerances all deviate for treble sensitivity and sometimes the HD800 is just too sharp to them regardless of pairing. If thats the case get a tube amp with warm tubes if you prefer the wide and deep sound staging.
> 
> As I have said before the RH5 from Rogue Audio has crazy good synergy with the HD800 and its a tube hybrid. The synergy isn't surprising to me after I learned that the HD800 was used extensively with the RH5 during development.



I love my RH-5 plus HD800 (stock and no EQ but Dana Lazuli cabling) and plan to keep it all as a matched set. Hansotek's review (and I believe your mention of the pairing at some point) colored me intrigued and I got a trade-in I couldn't refuse on one of the HP amps in my collection. I haven't even started tube rolling yet. This combination is superb on my early instrument recordings and vocals,


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm definitely waiting until I am with Yggy, but I'm debating the virtues of RH-5 and WA22. WA22 looks prettier and is $500 less in stock form, though the consensus seems to be that it requires upgrades to truly impress.


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'm definitely waiting until I am with Yggy, but I'm debating the virtues of RH-5 and WA22. WA22 looks prettier and is $500 less in stock form, though the consensus seems to be that it requires upgrades to truly impress.



It all begins with Yggdrasil so as far as I'm concerned, yes, it comes first. I feel your deliberations regarding Rogue versus Woo. I could solve my dilemma by caving to owning a fifth HP amp and if I do I would want a Woo Twenty Two and embrace the wallet emptying upgraded tubes at my leisure.
.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

No EQ here too but SDR mod; I guess that's pretty much the same as EQ too lol. But it sounds fantastic with my current system. Honestly, I never want it any better than this


----------



## Hansotek

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Content advisory warning: Sonarworks discussed.
> 
> I need to make sure Sonarworks is installed on my macbook pro in advance of next weekend's trip to the Schiitr, as I am eager (/anxious) to discover the extent to which @Baldr's Gadget will play nicely with digital EQ. My suspicion is that it won't, that Sonarworks will be distorted precisely to the degree of the gadget's tuning everything down. This means that any EQ would have to be analog, or shifted up to account for the gadget's retuning. Maybe in a future gadget, there could be a display to tell the user exactly the number of hertz that the sound is being moved. Maybe SW could partner with Schiit to load a forthcoming Loki Maxi with preset very precise EQs.
> 
> I put this here because HD600 is practically flat already, and I don't know of any other cans so notoriously requiring EQ as HD800...



I sincerely doubt it will be a problem for you... I think the entire range of the gadget's detuning is maybe a half step or less, and this is all happening right before it hits the DAC. It should just detune whatever signal you're sending to it. But please do report your findings.


----------



## Hansotek

FLTWS said:


> It all begins with Yggdrasil so as far as I'm concerned, yes, it comes first. I feel your deliberations regarding Rogue versus Woo. I could solve my dilemma by caving to owning a fifth HP amp and if I do I would want a Woo Twenty Two and embrace the wallet emptying upgraded tubes at my leisure.
> .


Or you could sell all the amps for a WA33.


----------



## FLTWS

Hansotek said:


> Or you could sell all the amps for a WA33.



True, but, variety is the spice of listening.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'm definitely waiting until I am with Yggy, but I'm debating the virtues of RH-5 and WA22. WA22 looks prettier and is $500 less in stock form, though the consensus seems to be that it requires upgrades to truly impress.


If only you lived closer! You could just swing by and demo it for your self. 

We are having Bill Magerman from Rogue Audio come by the store to do a meet and greet and we are also having coffee, doughnuts and such as well. This will be Nov 11 from 10-1. If your near us (Pittsburgh ) it will be a good laid back time. Bill is a nice guy. You will be able to listen to the RH5 and ask questions as well about it


----------



## endgame

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I tried them actually last weekend at canjam. It was much better than the stock pad because it's a hybrid (perforated if I am not mistaken) pad. I didn't have the opportunity to listen to it but looking at the FR with and without the pad; with the pad, the 6k spike is lowered to somewhere around 2db to 3db. It's really comfy too



Any idea when those pads will be available???


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

endgame said:


> Any idea when those pads will be available???



They said it would be either at the end of this month or next month.


----------



## Hansotek

FLTWS said:


> True, but, variety is the spice of listening.



I can't argue with you there. I need tube and solid state options always!


----------



## endgame

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> They said it would be either at the end of this month or next month.



Thank you!


----------



## Sorrodje

A more interesting question is : who did try seriously EQ and finally came back to no EQ


----------



## paradoxper

We meet again for the final time...


----------



## Dexon

Sorrodje said:


> A more interesting question is : who did try seriously EQ and finally came back to no EQ



I've tried Sonarworks and some others and came back to no EQ few minutes after, each time. Just heard strain and odd sounding HD800s. Actually never had an issue with the ~ '6khz  peak' or lack of bass or anything like that but rather with overly holographic presentation, soft transients and seriously wrong sounding Steinway


----------



## whirlwind

I have listened to mine for years now with tubes, no mods, no EQ

HD800 is a great headphone IMHO


----------



## Hansotek

Sorrodje said:


> A more interesting question is : who did try seriously EQ and finally came back to no EQ



I did. I had several EQ settings that (did and still do) sound great with the HD800. However, I recabled my whole system in 2016, and found the EQ to be largely unnecessary afterward.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Every day I find my ears grow less golden. What I am struck by more than anything is my adaptability, my ambivalence, toward chains. MJ2 with LISST? Sounds good. With Orange Globes? Also sounds good. With SW? Sounds good, especially for pop. Without? Also sounds good, if a little thin by direct comparison. I've even been known to leave iTunes presets in force without my knowledge, and only realize days later! (I have a bass boost/treble cut for K1000.) The only constant is how satisfied I am with my cans whenever I listen to them, and how quickly they grow to sound great.

Still can't stand the Audeze iSine 10. Gave them 2 weeks but they sounded like schiit the whole time.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Ditto...the more I listen, the better and more similar things sound.  Old age?  Declining hearing? Brain burn in? Experience?  I dunno.


----------



## FLTWS (Oct 24, 2017)

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Every day I find my ears grow less golden. What I am struck by more than anything is my adaptability, my ambivalence, toward chains. MJ2 with LISST? Sounds good. With Orange Globes? Also sounds good. With SW? Sounds good, especially for pop. Without? Also sounds good, if a little thin by direct comparison. I've even been known to leave iTunes presets in force without my knowledge, and only realize days later! (I have a bass boost/treble cut for K1000.) The only constant is how satisfied I am with my cans whenever I listen to them, and how quickly they grow to sound great.
> 
> Still can't stand the Audeze iSine 10. Gave them 2 weeks but they sounded like schiit the whole time.



Funny that! I've been thinking about the gestalt of the reproduced music experience the past few weeks. I don't think it's that your ears have gotten less golden, or you've become ambivalent about the listening experience. What I'm noticing is that at the levels of technology we have reached in amplification of the electrical signal there seems, to my ears, to be a convergence towards excellent sounding gear with very small differences that often require a lot of patience and repetition to ferret out. And to adequately explain these differences requires some level of overstatement to get one's point across. There aren't a lot of abject failures out there from my listening perspective, differences are small and getting smaller, if that's even possible. Whether it's a $500 or $5000 box of parts, a well designed circuit (tube or SS) using appropriately chosen components to deliver the best sound the topology is capable of makes for uniformly excellent sonic performance among the several brands I've owned or auditioned the past 22 months. (Headphones excluded, and the source is what it is; a good, bad, or ugly recording and or performance).

When I started my trek in January 2016 I did a lot of reading to find out what had changed since I left the hobby and see what consensus was being held about different equipment and manufacturers. But, I wanted to hear / experience these things for myself, make my own decisions, and work within a budget of "cash and carry". For me it was all a part  of the satisfaction of the quest itself. I've said it before but I don't envy those who review this stuff for a living, it can be a tough grind. Marketing hyperbole aside, there has been no second coming in audio reproduction. I've got a schiit load of HP amps and have come to the conclusion that I need to change direction and move towards experiencing more phones.

Another consideration is the more often I attend live music concerts the less satisfying listening to reproduced music becomes, short term. I can listen to a recording of some music I will be attending a concert to hear that evening. But then I usually need some time off before I get the urge to go reproduced again or I tend to be disappointed. Yet, sometimes listening to my rig is an extraordinary experience, and other times I just can't connect for some reason(s). That's the way life goes.

But, I ramble. I haven't had my afternoon cocktail, need something to steady up, LOL!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Something tells me MySphere is going to be the biggest deal of headphones in 2018. If you can deal with the isolation (or lack thereof). Interestingly, they have a smaller soundstage than K1000, which might retain its crown as soundstage king...


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Something tells me MySphere is going to be the biggest deal of headphones in 2018. If you can deal with the isolation (or lack thereof). Interestingly, they have a smaller soundstage than K1000, which might retain its crown as soundstage king...



The MySphere is on my list of candidates to evaluate.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Sorrodje said:


> A more interesting question is : who did try seriously EQ and finally came back to no EQ



Me! Although I applied your SDR mod to the headphone and that's all I need!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

My favorite cocktail is the pink pamplemousse. Two parts gin, two parts grapefruit juice, and one part mandarine napoleon, though grand marnier is acceptable. Serve it up with a lemon twist.


----------



## DavidA

@FLTWS , some cocktails for you:


----------



## FLTWS (Oct 24, 2017)

bosiemoncrieff said:


> My favorite cocktail is the pink pamplemousse. Two parts gin, two parts grapefruit juice, and one part mandarine napoleon, though grand marnier is acceptable. Serve it up with a lemon twist.



Too complicated for me; Gin (with an olive) or Vodka (with a twist) Martini, up and ice cold. And yes, shaken, not stirred with Vermouth bottle standing at the ready, but never opened.
When I'm in a complex, contemplative mood; Bushmills Malt, 21 years, on one ice cube.


----------



## FLTWS (Oct 24, 2017)

DavidA said:


> @FLTWS , some cocktails for you:



LOL, Is that a Manhattan up but no cherry? Or a Carmen Miranda style vitamin C head dress drink? The headphones do make a nice garnish.


----------



## DavidA

FLTWS said:


> LOL, Is that a Manhattan up but no cherry? Or a Carmen Miranda style vitamin C head dress drink? The headphones do make a nice garnish.


Its a Cosmo, yeah, I know it a girly drink, but I like it


----------



## endgame

800 owners! I own the 800S and have never heard the 800. How much brighter is the regular 800 really? I’ve heard many say they’re more alike than different. Anyone care to chime in? Thanks!


----------



## Shetzu

MTMECraig said:


> If only you lived closer! You could just swing by and demo it for your self.
> 
> We are having Bill Magerman from Rogue Audio come by the store to do a meet and greet and we are also having coffee, doughnuts and such as well. This will be Nov 11 from 10-1. If your near us (Pittsburgh ) it will be a good laid back time. Bill is a nice guy. You will be able to listen to the RH5 and ask questions as well about it


If only I was in that location I would jump to attend. Sad me....


----------



## Shetzu

Sorrodje said:


> A more interesting question is : who did try seriously EQ and finally came back to no EQ


Hi. I am really happy after getting your MOD. Never tried EQ and dont need it. Have got good match with amp & dac with my Hd.


----------



## Shetzu

whirlwind said:


> I have listened to mine for years now with tubes, no mods, no EQ
> 
> HD800 is a great headphone IMHO


I agree there. Nothing better in my opinion. Every day is a new day and really enjoying the Hd's. Perfect


----------



## Shetzu

endgame said:


> 800 owners! I own the 800S and have never heard the 800. How much brighter is the regular 800 really? I’ve heard many say they’re more alike than different. Anyone care to chime in? Thanks!


The 800s has had the 6khz peak controlled and a slight increase in bass. Thats the only difference . The Hd800 still sounds great  and I personally have used the SD mod controlling the 6khz peak and now it is almost similar to Hd800s however still has a bit of better and brighter sounding to 800s. Of course opinions are deceptive.


----------



## Shetzu

ruthieandjohn said:


> Ditto...the more I listen, the better and more similar things sound.  Old age?  Declining hearing? Brain burn in? Experience?  I dunno.


I am in similar boat like you haha.


----------



## thecrow

@endgame in a non-long listen to the hd800s i found that yes the top end was not as potentially sharp but I found the lower end less natural/right for my (conditioned) ears.

to me it is the bottom end of the hd800 that i prefer and hence why i easily prefer the hd800 over the hd800s - and why I have built my system around the hd800


----------



## FLTWS (Oct 25, 2017)

thecrow said:


> @endgame in a non-long listen to the hd800s i found that yes the top end was not as potentially sharp but I found the lower end less natural/right for my (conditioned) ears.
> 
> to me it is the bottom end of the hd800 that i prefer and hence why i easily prefer the hd800 over the hd800s - and why I have built my system around the hd800



I agree and that's my take as well. I spent a full week with both in 2016. I found the differences to be very small but liked the quality of bass detail a bit more on the 800 than on the 800S with purely acoustically generated music. I heard the high frequency peak on some recordings with the 800, but not all. After substituting other headphone cables that occasional brightness was solved to my satisfaction and the bass and mid-bass got more meat on the bones flavoring the sound to suit my ears which is all that matters to me. A couple of HP amps I tried were not a pleasant listen to with the 800, so putting together the right sound for me was not a matter of comparing specs to cobble together a rig. I had to listen for myself. I have the SD mod but haven't felt compelled to install it, yet. In addition to the cable changes I listen with the black felt (?) liners out!

Of all the HP amps I have (and have had) the little Schiit Jot was my least favorite for listening to the 800. Along comes Schiit Loki and I found I could tailor the sound to my liking in most aspects with the 800 and Jot combo!!! This hobby can be constantly surprising to me.

My ears are 7 decades old. If my hearing were as acute now as when I was 20 I might hear it completely differently. I'm not  a bass-head and the music I listen to most of the time is not electronically generated but purely acoustic.That being said I do enjoy film soundtracks that mix the two and my favorite Marilyn Manson track is "Sweet Dreams" (Are Made of This). I tend to prefer the Utopia for non-acoustically generated music and sound tracks. I accept that there is no "one phone to rule them all".

@endgame: Everyone hears differently, trust your ears.


----------



## chocomel167

Just got my hd800 and I'm really enjoying jt, the 6k stuff doesn't bother me, would it still be worth doing the SDR mod?


----------



## thecrow

i was happy with the hd800 and did the anax mod

i was happy i made it

easily made and reversible

never done the sdr mode

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod


----------



## FLTWS

chocomel167 said:


> Just got my hd800 and I'm really enjoying jt, the 6k stuff doesn't bother me, would it still be worth doing the SDR mod?



Maybe not, but I'd give myself 30 days use before thinking on mods. And the SD is reversible so if you decide to you can always go back.


----------



## chocomel167

FLTWS said:


> Maybe not, but I'd give myself 30 days use before thinking on mods. And the SD is reversible so if you decide to you can always go back.


Hmm ye good point about waiting a bit, I'll do that for now, thanks.


----------



## kylev

thecrow said:


> @endgame in a non-long listen to the hd800s i found that yes the top end was not as potentially sharp but I found the lower end less natural/right for my (conditioned) ears.
> 
> to me it is the bottom end of the hd800 that i prefer and hence why i easily prefer the hd800 over the hd800s - and why I have built my system around the hd800


Agree with you.. I sold my hd800s and got myself hd800 and mod it with SDR, the bass is a bit better I personally feel than my old hd800s. It has has a nice PRaT and I personally feel hd800 SDR is more engaging and musical.


----------



## kylev

I just got myself a tiny DAC + Amp + ADC with bluetooth function - Sound Blaster E3.
The spec says can drive headphone up to 600 ohm impedance, so without further ado I plugged my HD800 SDR to it, well ... using adapters from my balanced XLR cable to its 3.5mm port.
And the amp was using bluetooth connection from my iPhone.

https://imgur.com/a/o6AiG

Surprisingly it sounds really good from this tiny DAC, smaller than my palm size.
The details from HD800 unique signature is retained, I don't feel this Amp struggles to drive it, at all.
It is airy, transparent with decent bass texture - not amazing, but enough for my taste.
Was playing vocal oriented tracks like Diana Krall and Norah Jones, and I felt relaxed. Playing rock music like Linkin Park did not exhibit good punch compare to much bigger desktop amp.. well this is a tiny amp really.

But at least I can enjoy my HD800 anywhere at home, no longer desk bound .. yeah! And it is only for about $125 ? Really worth it I believe


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

FLTWS said:


> Maybe not, but I'd give myself 30 days use before thinking on mods. And the SD is reversible so if you decide to you can always go back.


I think this is very smart. The 30 days or (however long you choose to listen to it stock) will give you a good understanding of its sound, especially with different genres. Then when you do the mod it would make it more noticeable and you can decide wether the mod fits the genres you like or not.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I like a good old fashioned, though I add the dash of orange liqueur and a drop of maple syrup. I'm not especially hard core.


----------



## PinkyPowers

I created a nice bass EQ when I first got the HD800. But I later found out the right channel was barely getting any voltage. Cable was hanging on by a single strand of copper. After I reterminated it, I found the sound quite full and satisfying. No EQ after that. 

Cable is a Cardas in XLR Balanced.


----------



## Shetzu

chocomel167 said:


> Just got my hd800 and I'm really enjoying jt, the 6k stuff doesn't bother me, would it still be worth doing the SDR mod?


If it does not bother you I guess you can avoid it.


----------



## Shetzu

thecrow said:


> @endgame in a non-long listen to the hd800s i found that yes the top end was not as potentially sharp but I found the lower end less natural/right for my (conditioned) ears.
> 
> to me it is the bottom end of the hd800 that i prefer and hence why i easily prefer the hd800 over the hd800s - and why I have built my system around the hd800


Many like you still prefer the HD800. It is subjective.


----------



## thecrow

Shetzu said:


> Many like you still prefer the HD800. It is subjective.


Absolutely. And i understand why some people dont like the HD800


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Listening to the HD800 with Chord Mojo and Elemental Watson. Man I know this is beating a dead horse for this thread but I just love the mojo as the dac section with the HD800... Listening to "Dead Man's Song" by Tears For Fears. I think its the extra body I get out of the sound with the Mojo. As if its more 3D then other similarly priced dacs.


----------



## Hansotek

My review of the new Sennheiser HDV 820 amp/DAC is live! I don't usually expect much from headphone manufacturers when it comes to amps, but I gotta say, this thing is damn impressive. I break down the amp, DAC and more after the jump:

http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1117/Sennheiser_HDV820_DAC_Headamp_Review.htm


----------



## FLTWS

Hansotek said:


> My review of the new Sennheiser HDV 820 amp/DAC is live! I don't usually expect much from headphone manufacturers when it comes to amps, but I gotta say, this thing is damn impressive. I break down the amp, DAC and more after the jump:
> 
> http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1117/Sennheiser_HDV820_DAC_Headamp_Review.htm



Nice! I wonder if they plan on releasing a DAC-less version like they did with the HDVA 600?


----------



## Sennheiser

Hansotek said:


> My review of the new Sennheiser HDV 820 amp/DAC is live! I don't usually expect much from headphone manufacturers when it comes to amps, but I gotta say, this thing is damn impressive. I break down the amp, DAC and more after the jump:
> 
> http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1117/Sennheiser_HDV820_DAC_Headamp_Review.htm


Thank you for the review @Hansotek , one of the first and most thorough so far.


----------



## Hansotek

FLTWS said:


> Nice! I wonder if they plan on releasing a DAC-less version like they did with the HDVA 600?



I don't know, but they should, IMO. The amp section scaled up like crazy when I plugged it in to the Hugo 2.


----------



## Shetzu

MTMECraig said:


> Listening to the HD800 with Chord Mojo and Elemental Watson. Man I know this is beating a dead horse for this thread but I just love the mojo as the dac section with the HD800... Listening to "Dead Man's Song" by Tears For Fears. I think its the extra body I get out of the sound with the Mojo. As if its more 3D then other similarly priced dacs.


Agree there Mojo & HD800 has an excellent combination.


----------



## Shetzu

Hansotek said:


> My review of the new Sennheiser HDV 820 amp/DAC is live! I don't usually expect much from headphone manufacturers when it comes to amps, but I gotta say, this thing is damn impressive. I break down the amp, DAC and more after the jump:
> 
> http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1117/Sennheiser_HDV820_DAC_Headamp_Review.htm


Fantastic Review.


----------



## ruthieandjohn (Oct 31, 2017)

Enjoyed reading the review, but I didn’t find any mention of the output impedance of the HDV-820.  If it is like that of the predecessor, the HDVD-800, it is 43 ohms, which is great for the 300-600 ohm (depending on frequency) of the HD800, but is awfully high for most low impedance headphone that are around 32 ohms, such as all the Grados, the Fostex TH900, the Ultrasone, the HiFiMAN HE1000 and HE 500, and many others.  Rule of thumb is that you want the output impedance of the amp to be less than one-eighth the input impedance of the headphones, or 4 ohms amp output impedance for these 32 ohm input impedance headphones.

This fact has kept me from using my HDVD800, which I find utterly fantastic with my HD800 headphones (found no amp better, and despite concerns by some of its “so-so” DAC, found no shortfall in comparing to Hugo and MHDT Stockholm dedicated DACs), with headphones other than my HD800.  I have a wonderful but single purpose Sennheiser chain... HD800, HDVD800.


----------



## Svatopluk

ruthieandjohn said:


> Enjoyed reading the review, but I didn’t find any mention of the output impedance of the HDV-820.  If it is like that of the predecessor, the HDVD-800, it is 43 ohms, which is great for the 300-600 ohm (depending on frequency) of the HD800, but is awfully high for most low impedance headphone that are around 32 ohms, such as all the Grados, the Fostex TH900, the Ultrasone, the HiFiMAN HE1000 and HE 500, and many others.  Rule of thumb is that you want the output impedance of the amp to be less than one-eighth the input impedance of the headphones, or 4 ohms amp output impedance for these 32 ohm input impedance headphones.
> 
> This fact has kept me from using my HDVD800, which I find utterly fantastic with my HD800 headphones (found no amp better, and despite concerns by some of its “so-so” DAC, found no shortfall in comparing to Hugo and MHDT Stockholm dedicated DACs), with headphones other than my HD800.  I have a wonderful but single purpose Sennheiser chain... HD800, HDVD800.


The lack of adjustable impedance settings is the only reason I'm considering selling my HDVA600, it's great with the HD800 but not so much when paired with the Utopia.


----------



## Makiah S

Hey guys! Happy to say I'll be joining the HD 800 club starting tomorrow! My first order of business though is to install the SDR Mod, I've already got the little doo dad I just need to figure out what size Screwdriver/head I need to remove it. I believe it was a torq 6 but wanted to get some confirmation, so I have have everything ready a head of time. 

Super excited to be joining the club too ^^


----------



## Svatopluk

Mshenay said:


> Hey guys! Happy to say I'll be joining the HD 800 club starting tomorrow! My first order of business though is to install the SDR Mod, I've already got the little doo dad I just need to figure out what size Screwdriver/head I need to remove it. I believe it was a torq 6 but wanted to get some confirmation, so I have have everything ready a head of time.
> 
> Super excited to be joining the club too ^^


Do listen to the stock HD800 for a while before you start modifying it. That way you will have a reference point and who knows, you may actually prefer it that way.


----------



## Makiah S

Svatopluk said:


> Do listen to the stock HD800 for a while before you start modifying it. That way you will have a reference point and who knows, you may actually prefer it that way.


 
of course

I intend to spend about a month with it stock before I do anything


----------



## Svatopluk

Mshenay said:


> of course
> 
> I intend to spend about a month with it stock before I do anything


That's great and Welcome Aboard!


----------



## Makiah S

Svatopluk said:


> That's great and Welcome Aboard!



Thanks happy to be here finally!


----------



## paradoxper

Mshenay said:


> Hey guys! Happy to say I'll be joining the HD 800 club starting tomorrow! My first order of business though is to install the SDR Mod, I've already got the little doo dad I just need to figure out what size Screwdriver/head I need to remove it. I believe it was a torq 6 but wanted to get some confirmation, so I have have everything ready a head of time.
> 
> Super excited to be joining the club too ^^



You don't need any tools to install the SDR.


----------



## FLTWS

ruthieandjohn said:


> Enjoyed reading the review, but I didn’t find any mention of the output impedance of the HDV-820.  If it is like that of the predecessor, the HDVD-800, it is 43 ohms, which is great for the 300-600 ohm (depending on frequency) of the HD800, but is awfully high for most low impedance headphone that are around 32 ohms, such as all the Grados, the Fostex TH900, the Ultrasone, the HiFiMAN HE1000 and HE 500, and many others.  Rule of thumb is that you want the output impedance of the amp to be less than one-eighth the input impedance of the headphones, or 4 ohms amp output impedance for these 32 ohm input impedance headphones.
> 
> This fact has kept me from using my HDVD800, which I find utterly fantastic with my HD800 headphones (found no amp better, and despite concerns by some of its “so-so” DAC, found no shortfall in comparing to Hugo and MHDT Stockholm dedicated DACs), with headphones other than my HD800.  I have a wonderful but single purpose Sennheiser chain... HD800, HDVD800.



The HDV 820 manual shows INPUT Impedance 20 K ohms,  OUTPUT Impedance 270 ohms.


----------



## Makiah S

paradoxper said:


> You don't need any tools to install the SDR.



yes but I'd rather not tear at my screen cover

as it is removable via those little screws


----------



## paradoxper

Mshenay said:


> yes but I'd rather not tear at my screen cover
> 
> as it is removable via those little screws


Understood.


----------



## Makiah S

paradoxper said:


> Understood.



I need a improved cable as well, so I may just hang onto to the SDR inserts until after I upgrade the cable. As another member suggested, I'd like to get to know the stock sound first before I start to tinker, and finding a cable will be fun... Though I might honestly just have a HD800 to Audeze Mini 4 adpater built, so I can use some of my existing cables with the HD 800 if that's possible


----------



## Hansotek

FLTWS said:


> The HDV 820 manual shows INPUT Impedance 20 K ohms,  OUTPUT Impedance 270 ohms.



That is the output impedance for the dual 3-pin preamp line out for active monitors. Damping factor really isn't very important for an IC out... that's there to kill any noise from the amp.

@ruthieandjohn - As far as the headphone outputs go, it states "minimum 16 ohms" for all headphones in the manual, which leads me to believe it is probably < 2ohms, but @Sennheiser could probably get us a real answer from the engineers.


----------



## ruthieandjohn (Oct 31, 2017)

Hansotek said:


> That is the output impedance for the dual 3-pin preamp line out for active monitors. Damping factor really isn't very important for an IC out... that's there to kill any noise from the amp.
> 
> @ruthieandjohn - As far as the headphone outputs go, it states "minimum 16 ohms" for all headphones in the manual, which leads me to believe it is probably < 2ohms, but @Sennheiser could probably get us a real answer from the engineers.



If it states MINIMUM 16 ohms, doesn’t that sound like “no lower than 16 ohms...” or 16 ohms and up?  Not necessarily a problem for high impedance headphones, like the HD800, many Beyerdynamics, Sony’s, and AKGs,.. just questionable for the ones I mentioned above.  

Sony has the same challenge... the output impedance of their PHA series of portable DAC/amps is 10 ohms.  They USED to include this on the data sheet of for example the PHA-1, but about a year and a half ago, it was removed.  Works great for higher impedance Sony headphones, but I think they consider it a sore point, hence the removal of output impedance from the Sony PHA data sheets.   You can, however, still look up the output impedance of the output opamp from its manufacturer data sheet and find it is...10 ohms.

On the HDVD800, and I think on the HDV820, they used panels of listeners using the HD800, not slide rules and calculators to compute impedance, while they varied the output impedance, arriving at a listener-based preference for 43 ohms.


----------



## Hansotek

ruthieandjohn said:


> If it states MINIMUM 16 ohms, doesn’t that sound like “no lower than 16 ohms...” or 16 ohms and up?  Not necessarily a problem for high impedance headphones, like the HD800, many Beyerdynamics, Sony’s, and AKGs,.. just questionable for the ones I mentioned above.
> 
> Sony has the same challenge... the output impedance of their PHA series of portable DAC/amps is 10 ohms.  They USED to include this on the data sheet of for example the PHA-1, but about a year and a half ago, it was removed.  Works great for higher impedance Sony headphones, but I think they consider it a sore point, hence the removal of output impedance from the Sony PHA data sheets.   You can, however, still look up the output impedance of the output opamp from its manufacturer data sheet and find it is...10 ohms.
> 
> On the HDVD800, and I think on the HDV820, they used panels of listeners using the HD800, not slide rules and calculators to compute impedance, while they varied the output impedance, arriving at a listener-based preference for 43 ohms.



I found your answer... it is, in fact, 40 ohms. This may be problematic with your Grado collection. It didn't sound bad w/ 25 ohm Denons, though you really want to get something under 3 ohms with those/Fostex, generally speaking. 40 ohms is certainly not optimal. 

It won't matter too much with the planars, as the 8:1 damping factor isn't such a big deal when a headphone has a relatively flat impedance. Coil-wound dynamic drivers can have large peaks in inductance, which can make damping an issue if there is too much resistance from the amplifier.


----------



## ruthieandjohn (Oct 31, 2017)

I bet that, as great as the HD800 with the HDVD800 sounds, the HD800S with the HDV820 must be SUBLIME!  Thanks for researching the impedance!

On the HDV820, design chief Axel Grell confirms that the output impedance was chosen with listening test for a variety of headphones, as indicated by the quote from one of the Sennheiser posts in the HDV 820 Q & A thread here in head-fi, pasted below.

“*"I know it's designed with full-sized headphones in mind, but how does it perform with IEM's (Sennheiser IE 800 in particular)?*... I've read as a general rule of thumb that you want the output impedance of your amp to be at least 1/8th that of your headphone's impedance. Even some full size headphones like the Fostex TH900 (25 Ω) and Focal Utopia (80 Ω) could be negatively affected."

*[Grell, Axel] There is no general rule for “the right output impedance” for a headphone amplifier. There are some high output impedance tube amplifiers that sound great, others don’t, some Zero- Ohms solid state amplifiers sound cold and harsh, others sound good. A headphone and a headphone amplifier is a complex system of impedances, amplifier feedback loops, amplifier current supply and so on. That could lead to typical distortions and dynamic changes of the amplifiers output parameters depending on the headphone impedance and the type of amplifier. Therefore we made listening tests with many different headphones (Sennheiser and other brands from 25 Ohms up to 600 Ohms) using different impedances at the output of the prototypes of HDV 820. The outcome of this listening tests are the output impedances of the HDV 820.*

*As you can see from the attached curves a HDV 820 can drive a TH900 with 2.75 W. This should be enough.”*

Once upon a time, the "standard output impedance" was 120 Ω. Generally speaking, don't lose sight of the forest because of focusing too much on one tree.


----------



## thecrow (Oct 31, 2017)

Mshenay said:


> Thanks happy to be here finally!


And if you want to modify it don’t forget the anax mod too. As seen here and on innerfidelity


----------



## Makiah S (Oct 31, 2017)

thecrow said:


> And if you want to modify it don’t forget the anax mood too. As seen here and on innerfidelity



Honestly if the SDR isn't enough I'll likely send it out to a friend to have him mod it... I've heard another HD 800 he modded and it was GLORIOUS, absolutely beautiful! Really it was the memory of that modded HD 800 that prompted to get my own! I enjoy appreciate the work of others more than my own honestly, his mods are very unique to his own personal preferences and I enjoy... getting to enjoy music with some of his preference and personality introduced into the mix, 

I like the Eikon/LCD 2.2 for that as well, for their unique take on a simmilar sound signature. Really the only headphone I own that's MINE is my HE 4! I don't need or want another headphone that's been modded to my preference, that's kinda boring really. Though, the stock HD 800 is really the embodiment of what Sennheiser thinks "neutral/natural" is and part of me kinda wants to experience their vision before I meld it with some one else's. 

If I REALLY LOVE it stock, I may just to a cable upgrade and save up for another used pair to have modded!


----------



## Makiah S

So I just finished up my first listen of the stock HD 800! I only had my HM601 and my APPJ PA 1502A headphone amp with me, and while the PA 1502A is a nice little SET Amp, mine is a work in progress so it's got some functionality flaws...

Non the less, I had a few co-workers on hand to try them too and every one enjoyed them! I personally, didn't feel they were too bright OR to thin. I Actually enjoy the balance of mids/highs, my only complaint was a lack of resolve in the sub bass... but that is more a fault of my Dac/Amp chain than the HD 800. Once I get them home and listen with my reference system I don't think I'll have that issue any more. I do really like the overall balance of them in stock form!


----------



## Makiah S

I've got to say, I'm at home listening out of my desktop system and... I can finally see why there's so much love for these! The Dynamics are amazing, the resolve is phenomenal and the imaging is amazing! Don't understand why/how people feel that some tracks or songs sound "distant" I guess I'm just not as big a fan of intimacy!


----------



## thecrow

Mshenay said:


> I've got to say, I'm at home listening out of my desktop system and... I can finally see why there's so much love for these! The Dynamics are amazing, the resolve is phenomenal and the imaging is amazing! Don't understand why/how people feel that some tracks or songs sound "distant" I guess I'm just not as big a fan of intimacy!


The h800 definitely has a wow factor when you first hear them. 

IMHO they ate of exceptional value. But i also understand why some people might not take to them


----------



## Makiah S

thecrow said:


> The h800 definitely has a wow factor when you first hear them.
> 
> IMHO they ate of exceptional value. But i also understand why some people might not take to them



Well honestly the really did NOT wow me till I got them into my desktop system. My Hm901/PicoPower does phenomenally well with a lot of what I own! But it just wasn't all that great with the HD 800, the frequency response is exactly what I've always heard it is and frankly in terms of resolve/tactility it does trade blows with my LCD 2.2, and finally the sound stage is really dependent on the track. I'm listening to Dance of the Zephyrtimes, very GRAND classical piece and... I'm not really hearing or experiencing anything new... it's technically a smidge airier than the LCD 2.2 or my HE 4 but... I dunno it's not WOWING me like every one says the HD 800 does with classical 

Either way, the sound signature is not for every one. And plenty of people really do love that warmer intimate sound. For better or worse I started down the Audiophile rabbit hole with a DT 880 so I always knew I'd wind up with an HD 800, it's a sound signiture I've always enjoyed. Though honestly, I'm happy I waited as long as I did... I think had I gotten it years ago, before I made all the little final tweaks to my system, it would have just disappointed me like the first 2014 Fazor'd LCD 2.2 I heard...


----------



## Shetzu

Mshenay said:


> Hey guys! Happy to say I'll be joining the HD 800 club starting tomorrow! My first order of business though is to install the SDR Mod, I've already got the little doo dad I just need to figure out what size Screwdriver/head I need to remove it. I believe it was a torq 6 but wanted to get some confirmation, so I have have everything ready a head of time.
> 
> Super excited to be joining the club too ^^


I dont think you require any tools. Its just peeling off the mesh fabric and inserting the felt pads. All the best.


----------



## Makiah S

Shetzu said:


> I dont think you require any tools. Its just peeling off the mesh fabric and inserting the felt pads. All the best.



Well there are two methods for insertion, scrapping/peeling or un screwing... typically if there are screws I'd prefer to unscrew them... but if your not careful you can destroy the wires connecting your driver, on the flipside if your not careful with your peeling you can damage the film... but every video I've seen that stuff looks pretty gummy so I might just go the peeling route


----------



## johnjen

Having spent a good deal of time taking the 800's apart, I'd recommend NOT removing the drivers from their mounting frame for this mod.  It would increase the chance of damage to a driver and they are only sold in (matched) pairs ($270+).

And really access to the mesh screen is really only from the surface anyway.  And leaving them in the mounting frame gives you an much more workable platform to perform the mod.

My 2¢

JJ


----------



## twiceboss

Where is dekoni?....


----------



## Makiah S

johnjen said:


> Having spent a good deal of time taking the 800's apart, I'd recommend NOT removing the drivers from their mounting frame for this mod.  It would increase the chance of damage to a driver and they are only sold in (matched) pairs ($270+).
> 
> And really access to the mesh screen is really only from the surface anyway.  And leaving them in the mounting frame gives you an much more workable platform to perform the mod.
> 
> ...



Yea I'm starting to see the benefit of just peeling it, I don't have the right tools to un mount it nor can I repair it if I destroy them... just need to let my thumbnail gain a little extra mass and it'll be ready for some delicate peeling


----------



## FiGuY1017

Hello everyone just joined the club. I already had a system built for them and my 560's. ipod touch-cck-Hiface2-benchmark bnc cable -Dac19-Airist Audio Heron 5. Wow is all I can say. No need for me to mod this baby,sounds incredible!


----------



## twiceboss

FiGuY1017 said:


> Hello everyone just joined the club. I already had a system built for them and my 560's. ipod touch-cck-Hiface2-benchmark bnc cable -Dac19-Airist Audio Heron 5. Wow is all I can say. No need for me to mod this baby,sounds incredible!


Heron 5 is incredibly good with hd800. Dont forget to put Loki between it. And turn the second and third knobs to three pm ish


----------



## connieflyer

Hansotek said:


> My review of the new Sennheiser HDV 820 amp/DAC is live! I don't usually expect much from headphone manufacturers when it comes to amps, but I gotta say, this thing is damn impressive. I break down the amp, DAC and more after the jump:
> 
> http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1117/Sennheiser_HDV820_DAC_Headamp_Review.htm


I was wondering if you had a chance to compare this amp with a Schiit Gungnir multi=bit?  I thought your review was very thorough and interesting. I am using a Feliks Euforia headphone amp with Gec 6as7g tubes Psvane 6sn7 drivers.  I would be interested in this to drive my 800 but don't want to have the dac's expense.  I missed the HDva600, but this tube amp is tops.


----------



## Hansotek

connieflyer said:


> I was wondering if you had a chance to compare this amp with a Schiit Gungnir multi=bit?  I thought your review was very thorough and interesting. I am using a Feliks Euforia headphone amp with Gec 6as7g tubes Psvane 6sn7 drivers.  I would be interested in this to drive my 800 but don't want to have the dac's expense.  I missed the HDva600, but this tube amp is tops.



I haven't, but I would imagine the notes would be relatively similar to the notes I offered on DAC-19, but with less gooeyness/warmth and a little less impact, but a more shapely soundstage, more neutrality and a little bit better definition in the height and depth layering. But again, that is just my best guess based on my experience with the two DACs, so take it with a grain of salt. If anybody has more direct experience with the combo, I'd love to hear about it as well!


----------



## Shetzu

twiceboss said:


> Heron 5 is incredibly good with hd800. Dont forget to put Loki between it. And turn the second and third knobs to three pm ish


Heron 5 was always good with the HD800. I must say thats a good combo for a great SQ.


----------



## Shetzu

johnjen said:


> Having spent a good deal of time taking the 800's apart, I'd recommend NOT removing the drivers from their mounting frame for this mod.  It would increase the chance of damage to a driver and they are only sold in (matched) pairs ($270+).
> 
> And really access to the mesh screen is really only from the surface anyway.  And leaving them in the mounting frame gives you an much more workable platform to perform the mod.
> 
> ...


I agree to all above. I  too never opened or dismantled my Hp. Just slowly peeled the net mesh half way and inserted the SD felt pads inside and followed the instructions as posted on youtube. Simple.


----------



## SilverEars

Heard the 800 out of the HDV820, and it sounded very clean and tight.  I think the best I've heard of the 800 from it, and to the point of wanting the setup.


----------



## SilverEars (Nov 13, 2017)

To be specific, it was the amp I heard of the HDV820 from a different DAC output fed to it.

I wasn't so into the headphone mod.  I'd rather put up with peaky treble on certain tracks/passages as it doesn't sound right with the mod to my ears.

Focal Utopia doesn't have the peaky treble, but I can say that HD800 can  technically sound better after hearing it out of this setup.  I think the speed and the tightness of HD800 drivers just seems better in how clean it sounds.  HD800 has that electrostat like capability in speed and transients, but the treble at times... Probably the fastest dynamic driver out there.


----------



## FiGuY1017 (Nov 13, 2017)

Delete


----------



## FiGuY1017




----------



## FLTWS

FiGuY1017 said:


>







Very similar


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Hey Guys, I’ve decided to let my HD800/Draug 2 Single Ended/4 Pin Balanced, ANAX Mod go, checking interest on the Thread.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Hey Guys, I’ve decided to let my HD800/Draug 2 Single Ended/4 Pin Balanced, ANAX Mod go, checking interest on the Thread.



Are you looking for an upgrade?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Are you looking for an upgrade?



I am considering buying a used Utopia, or Audeze i4, I was blown away by the iSine 20 with the V2 Cipher Cable.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Oh interesting. I though the iSine 10 was super blah.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I am considering buying a used Utopia, or Audeze i4, I was blown away by the iSine 20 with the V2 Cipher Cable.



i4 would be an amazing portable solution but I still thought that HD800 is necessary for desktop setup and critical listening session


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I couldn't imagine living without HD800. It remains the desktop standard for classical music. You could name others — SR009, MDR-R10 (bass light), K1000, MySphere, k812, t1, orpheus, HE-6, HE-1000 — but if you plot SQ against ease of acquisition (availability and non-insane price) it's not even close. I love the K700 series and indeed HD600, but for critical listening of orchestral music, they are great, albeit of a clearly inferior class.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I love them, but too be honest I’ve grown bored with them, I’ll probabl be back.


----------



## Makiah S (Nov 16, 2017)

Welp I finally did it... I installed the SDR Mod today... didn't do the peeling but did take the time to unscrew the mesh and seperate it from the Driver unit. It wasn't as fragile as I thought, though I'm used to working with sensitive electronics so I guess I have a pretty delicate touch... I'm a bit more forceful peeling stuff and wouldn't trust me self not to stab a hole into something <.< I was also able to get a more even install with the Mesh Membrane separated from the driver! I even measured how much of the insert stuck out the back

Anyways, I'm a BIG fan! One thing I noticed in the measurements people posted were in addition to the lessening of that 6k peak the mid bass hump was slightly tapered... it was the rather marginal flattening of that mid bass peak I noticed first! The Sub Bass did indeed pop out JUST a smidge more. the SDR mod didn't boost anything but lessened enough to result in the perception of more low bass! Really diggin these, plus I can blast some Metallica at a responsible 88.6 average dBs now ^^ before it was a bit more splashy than I liked!

Oh! I read else where that the HD 800 is kinda... slow? Which sounds crazy and I didn't really buy into that... but I've been spending some time with some Grado Flagships and honestly... after 5 days with only the PS2KE... when I switched back to the HD 800 I immediately noticed how much warmer it is! An that was 100% Stock it wasn't nearly as "fast" as the PS2KE. That took me by surprise actually! An it's not to say that the HD 800 is "slow" but... my HE 4 has a tenancy to be TOO quick, hyper realistic... OVER exxagerted too aggressive too little decay... ect... ect... and the HD 800 doesn't suffer from that... it's not a SUPER FAST headphone, especially with the SDR mod it more often than not feels just right! 

I'm impressed with how it does Metal now too! I'm hearing Metallica in a way that's new to me! There's a lot of detail my HE 4 didn't quite get... and the HD 800 doesn't lack any of the ENERGY and EXCITEMENT and DRIVE that I love about Cliff Era Metallica! Yea the PS2KE and HE 4 are FASTER and MORE AGGRESSIVE... but honestly they can be a bit over bearing some times and still gloss over some of the deepest micro detail, all that energy and emphasis on the attack and leading edge... leaves a little detail behind

@Sorrodje excellent work with this my friend! Makes a noticeable improvement, super happy to have it ^^ love the little thingies it mailed in too!!!

Non the less, I'm perfectly content with the sound as is. I see no reason to change it further, maybe it's laziness on my part but the SDR tilts in just enough in the direction I wanted that I don't care to spend any more time modding or tinkering... if I wanted to tinker I'd buy an HE 6 or maybe the re released HE 5 that just came out. Other wise I think I'm good ^^

And... I have to say the HD 800 is still an excellent contender! Not to down play other brands but given the price even new it shines brightly against price'r competitors


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

AWESOME post, my friend! keep that ENERGY and EXCITEMENT coming...this thread has been starting to feel DEAD and could use some FASTER and MORE AGGRESSIVE impressions about this KING of dynamics!!


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

bosiemoncrieff said:


> AWESOME post, my friend! keep that ENERGY and EXCITEMENT coming...this thread has been starting to feel DEAD and could use some FASTER and MORE AGGRESSIVE impressions about this KING of dynamics!!



Well I guess that's true especially with a bunch of new headphones exploding the market recently. But I can never get enough with my HD800. It's just a must to have this in collection


----------



## paradoxper

HD800 can still hang with the very best.


----------



## Shetzu (Nov 27, 2017)

paradoxper said:


> HD800 can still hang with the very best.



I agree there. One can always have many complement HPs along with HD 800 but the 800 is there to stay.


----------



## Sorrodje

Mshenay said:


> @Sorrodje excellent work with this my friend! Makes a noticeable improvement, super happy to have it ^^ love the little thingies it mailed in too!!!



You're welcome.


----------



## Makiah S

Shetzu said:


> I agree there. One can always have many compliment Hp along with HD 800 but the 800 is there to stay.



I certainly think so! I don't know that I'll ever get it to those "crazy" levels that some of the more inventive modders reach. No time, but for now it's exactly what I wanted/needed it to be! Curious to explore more of the "flagship" market. An I think the HD 800 will not only continue to be a real pleasure to listen to, but also serve as an excellent tool to examine gear with. I need an upgrade to my Dac and my Amps and just the resolve and imaging of the HD 800 alone make it a more valuable asset for demoing  gear especially with that 6k peak removed! Though all in all I'm happy to say the gear I've amassed continues to serve me well ^^ my little HE 4 did good for the time I had it, though it's nice to finally have a modded HD 800!


----------



## johnjen

In all of my TotL can listening, only a very few come close.  And if 'properly' setup, fewer still can match the overall SQ that 800's can deliver.
And yeah they need to be tweaked along with the rest of the system, but they can just keep scaling.  
Much to my delight I might add.

And granted I haven't heard any of the Focals that are well settled in, especially the utopia's (beryllium is notorious), even so, to be in this group of cans and having the staying power to hold their own for lo these many years, is a statement in and of itself.

JJ


----------



## Shetzu

Mshenay said:


> I certainly think so! I don't know that I'll ever get it to those "crazy" levels that some of the more inventive modders reach. No time, but for now it's exactly what I wanted/needed it to be! Curious to explore more of the "flagship" market. An I think the HD 800 will not only continue to be a real pleasure to listen to, but also serve as an excellent tool to examine gear with. I need an upgrade to my Dac and my Amps and just the resolve and imaging of the HD 800 alone make it a more valuable asset for demoing  gear especially with that 6k peak removed! Though all in all I'm happy to say the gear I've amassed continues to serve me well ^^ my little HE 4 did good for the time I had it, though it's nice to finally have a modded HD 800!



very true. my HD is modded too and suits my taste.


----------



## Shetzu

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I love them, but too be honest I’ve grown bored with them, I’ll probabl be back.



I too may be looking for something to compliment my HDs. So trying to get a pair of LCD2 for change of taste


----------



## thecrow

Shetzu said:


> I too may be looking for something to compliment my HDs. So trying to get a pair of LCD2 for change of taste


Great price at the moment on lcd2 at adorama

https://slickdeals.net/f/10657236-audeze-lcd-2-planar-magnetic-headphones-649-free-shipping


----------



## Makiah S

Shetzu said:


> I too may be looking for something to compliment my HDs. So trying to get a pair of LCD2 for change of taste



I have an LCD 2 and it does make a great compliment! But I have a 2012 Pre Fazor 2.2... it's distinctly dark heavy and a touch intimate. When I heard the 2014 Fazor I thought it was terrible... no idea on how the 2017 Fazor sounds or how the LCD 2C sounds but I'd really hear it before you buy. MY experience with them has been 50/50 the first I heard was NOT a good compliment, the second is a phenomenal compliment!


----------



## thecrow (Nov 17, 2017)

Mshenay said:


> I have an LCD 2 and it does make a great compliment! But I have a 2012 Pre Fazor 2.2... it's distinctly dark heavy and a touch intimate. When I heard the 2014 Fazor I thought it was terrible... no idea on how the 2017 Fazor sounds or how the LCD 2C sounds but I'd really hear it before you buy. MY experience with them has been 50/50 the first I heard was NOT a good compliment, the second is a phenomenal compliment!


My main hp is the hd800 and i cant see that changing at all in the foreseeable future.

I oicked up the lcd2 early this year that has been enjoyable. Recently though i bought an elear open box from moon audio for about $550 and that has been getting a lot of use

I probably don’t really need both the elear and lcd2 but those two and potentially the lcd2c give some good options re complementing the hd800. All dependant on preferences of mids and bottom end and gear

I can’t help but turn up the volume when using the elears. And the lcd2 have these great mids and overall weight and deep bottom end (not bloaty) depending on gear used


----------



## FiGuY1017 (Nov 18, 2017)

As I wait for my SDR from the man himself I decided to try something to hold me over. It's simple non invasive so thought why not. Placebo perhaps? I cut two circle paper stickers out and put them over the cavity on top of the screen. Ryan Adams is listenable now. Can't wait to get the real deal and knock this peak completely out?: As seen suggested.


----------



## claud W

Doing a search is not helping me much. What is the break in period for HD800??????


----------



## thecrow

claud W said:


> Doing a search is not helping me much. What is the break in period for HD800??????


i don't remember any as in they had me at.....


----------



## bearFNF

LOL, the time it takes to un-box them plug them in and warm up your amp? at least IME, YMMY...


----------



## thecrow

bearFNF said:


> LOL, the time it takes to un-box them plug them in and warm up your amp? at least IME, YMMY...


sounds like burn in is as long as my wife takes to cellar wines after she buys a bottle


----------



## whirlwind

Shetzu said:


> I too may be looking for something to compliment my HDs. So trying to get a pair of LCD2 for change of taste




I think these would be an awesome compliment to the HD800.

I am using a ZMF Ori as a compliment and will be adding a ZMF Atticus also


----------



## claud W

My Ether open Flows are my king to my HD 800S yang.


----------



## DavidA

I use a few different headphones as a compliment/alternative to my HD800: TH-600, EL-8 open, LCD-2f, RS2e, HD650, HD700, HE400, HE560 and a couple of custom built headphones using Nhoord and Ypsilon drivers.


----------



## whirlwind

DavidA said:


> I use a few different headphones as a compliment/alternative to my HD800: TH-600, EL-8 open, LCD-2f, RS2e, HD650, HD700, HE400, HE560 and a couple of custom built headphones using Nhoord and Ypsilon drivers.




You have many compliments


----------



## Makiah S

DavidA said:


> I use a few different headphones as a compliment/alternative to my HD800: TH-600, EL-8 open, LCD-2f, RS2e, HD650, HD700, HE400, HE560 and a couple of custom built headphones using Nhoord and Ypsilon drivers.


David and I have some similar overlaps

I don't feel that the nhoord or ylipson drivers have the resolve of the 8800 or LCD 2.2 but they're good for Portable use

at least that's how I use them

But I have a ZMF EIKON N ATH ES10 as closed-back compliments to the rest of it all I got


----------



## johnjen

claud W said:


> Doing a search is not helping me much. What is the break in period for HD800??????


 If memory serves (it's been many years now) it was ≈ 100hrs ± to settle them in.

JJ


----------



## Makiah S

johnjen said:


> If memory serves (it's been many years now) it was ≈ 100hrs ± to settle them in.
> 
> JJ


what are the changes that the "settling" brings?


----------



## johnjen

Mostly a smoothing out of the SQ/FR and an added sense of ease of presentation.  Like everything was more refined.

JJ


----------



## Shetzu

whirlwind said:


> I think these would be an awesome compliment to the HD800.
> 
> I am using a ZMF Ori as a compliment and will be adding a ZMF Atticus also



Thats cool.


----------



## Shetzu

thecrow said:


> Great price at the moment on lcd2 at adorama
> 
> https://slickdeals.net/f/10657236-audeze-lcd-2-planar-magnetic-headphones-649-free-shipping



Yeah. I saw that.  But adding customs & shipping would again sum up  to its actual cost for me.  Lets see.


----------



## 336881

Shetzu said:


> I too may be looking for something to compliment my HDs. So trying to get a pair of LCD2 for change of taste



Lcd-2's are nice but fall a bit short in keeping up with the hd800's. Lcd-X is much closer. Your ultimate one-two punch is an sr-007mk1 but that like the hd800 requires a well built amp and 007mk1 +hd800 + 2 nice amps = $$$. I would actually put a bit more in the amps than the headphones but try and keep it even stevenish, $4-5k for both amps. Sr-007 mk1 ver. are getting harder to find and I think it is only a matter of time before they all have mk2 drivers in them and/or prices skyrocket. 

Not many bases left untouched though. Maybe they both struggle with treble in their own way but with the right amp they won't.


----------



## paradoxper

If one is to pursue a Stax compliment, the SR-007 mk1 may not be so available (but not rare) and does not command a flipping price. $1500-2000 is common place still.
Furthermore, an LCD-2 driver is sooner to fail than an 007.

A nice entry or endgame amplifier is the KGSShv in the $2k range.


----------



## Shetzu (Nov 27, 2017)

antimatter said:


> Lcd-2's are nice but fall a bit short in keeping up with the hd800's. Lcd-X is much closer. Your ultimate one-two punch is an sr-007mk1 but that like the hd800 requires a well built amp and 007mk1 +hd800 + 2 nice amps = $$$. I would actually put a bit more in the amps than the headphones but try and keep it even stevenish, $4-5k for both amps. Sr-007 mk1 ver. are getting harder to find and I think it is only a matter of time before they all have mk2 drivers in them and/or prices skyrocket.
> 
> Not many bases left untouched though. Maybe they both struggle with treble in their own way but with the right amp they won't.



 Thanks for the views. However, I already have 2 amps. My going for the LCD is not to match it to HD800 but just have a different sound . I am also open to the Stax setup . I now it is a bit narrow but I am open to that. Its just like having 2 different cars in your collection


----------



## thecrow

Shetzu said:


> Thanks for the views. However, I already have 2 amps. My going for the LCD is not to match it to HD800 but just have a different sound . I am also open to the Stax setup . I now it is a bit narrow but I am open to that. Its just like have 2 different cars in your collection


Also it fits your budget there is also the lcdx without the case being offered for a little more than the lcd2

Similar to lcd2 but better top end


----------



## Shetzu

thecrow said:


> Also it fits your budget there is also the lcdx without the case being offered for a little more than the lcd2
> 
> Similar to lcd2 but better top end



Thank you will surely look at it and try the demo.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Omg hd700? How are your ears? Do you need medical attention?


----------



## RCBinTN

I've been using the LCD-X to compliment my HD800 for a few years. It's nice having two (or three) choices available.
I agree the LCD-X are a better compliment than the LCD-2/2F. They are too dark.

Then I heard the LCD-4. They will become my compliment in the future.

I also think @whirlwind has a great idea of using ZMF headphones to compliment the HD800.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

RCBinTN said:


> I've been using the LCD-X to compliment my HD800 for a few years. It's nice having two (or three) choices available.
> I agree the LCD-X are a better compliment than the LCD-2/2F. They are too dark.
> 
> Then I heard the LCD-4. They will become my compliment in the future.
> ...



I am also looking for either Audeze's or ZMF's to compliment my HD800. Will look further in the future.


----------



## RCBinTN

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I am also looking for either Audeze's or ZMF's to compliment my HD800. Will look further in the future.


There are both Audez'e and ZMF listed in the Headphones For Sale/Trade forum.
Good luck on the search.


----------



## Hansotek

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I am also looking for either Audeze's or ZMF's to compliment my HD800. Will look further in the future.



I like both the Atticus and Auteur as a compliment to my HD800. Atticus is more of a classic contrast like the LCD-2 - more bassy and fun with a romantic midrange - I especially like it with OTL tube amps where it takes on an almost horn speaker-like character - almost warm and intimate to a fault, but pulls up just short of that in a spot where you get ALL THE FEELS!!! IMHO, YMMV. Preference for it is highly subjective, but it’s a very sweet, smooth, relaxing headphone.

Auteur is a different beast altogether, being a lot more neutral/balanced, but ultra punchy with an elite combo of clarity and presence in the low frequencies, and an incredibly sweet midrange. Definitely a lot more resolving and offers more clarity across the board, whereas the Atticus puts more of a spotlight on the lead instrument. Sort of takes some elements from the LCD-X and LCD-4. 

Some people might feel that a more neutral balance might be redundant with the HD800/S/SDR and go with a stronger contrast like Atticus or LCD-2... others might prefer hearing a headphone with a slightly different presentation that’s still in the ballpark of neutral like Auteur or LCD-X... personally, I like having both!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

First of all, to *compliment* is to say something nice. To *complement* is to add something so as to complete or make whole.

I found my single-ended HD800 cable damaged after a flight to LA (American Airlines). Should I ask for some kind of compensation?


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

bosiemoncrieff said:


> First of all, to *compliment* is to say something nice. To *complement* is to add something so as to complete or make whole.
> 
> I found my single-ended HD800 cable damaged after a flight to LA (American Airlines). Should I ask for some kind of compensation?



You're right. My mistake. I meant complement not compliment. I am sorry to hear that but I guess it's never hurt to ask for compensation. Hope you get something in return.


----------



## Shetzu

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I am also looking for either Audeze's or ZMF's to compliment my HD800. Will look further in the future.





Hansotek said:


> I like both the Atticus and Auteur as a compliment to my HD800. Atticus is more of a classic contrast like the LCD-2 - more bassy and fun with a romantic midrange - I especially like it with OTL tube amps where it takes on an almost horn speaker-like character - almost warm and intimate to a fault, but pulls up just short of that in a spot where you get ALL THE FEELS!!! IMHO, YMMV. Preference for it is highly subjective, but it’s a very sweet, smooth, relaxing headphone.
> 
> Auteur is a different beast altogether, being a lot more neutral/balanced, but ultra punchy with an elite combo of clarity and presence in the low frequencies, and an incredibly sweet midrange. Definitely a lot more resolving and offers more clarity across the board, whereas the Atticus puts more of a spotlight on the lead instrument. Sort of takes some elements from the LCD-X and LCD-4.
> 
> Some people might feel that a more neutral balance might be redundant with the HD800/S/SDR and go with a stronger contrast like Atticus or LCD-2... others might prefer hearing a headphone with a slightly different presentation that’s still in the ballpark of neutral like Auteur or LCD-X... personally, I like having both!



I have a strong inclination to buy the Audeze as a complement to my HD 800 (which I will retain as long as it works ). My only apprehensive is failure of drivers which many say is a painful shock and tedious method of replacement specially if you are living  in some other country. Spending $1000-1200 and then  if this happens makes me hold on more on time. I have been contemplating to buy for quite sometime but have held back. I really want to get the LCD-X or LCD3. Lets see how it goes.


----------



## Shetzu

bosiemoncrieff said:


> First of all, to *compliment* is to say something nice. To *complement* is to add something so as to complete or make whole.
> 
> I found my single-ended HD800 cable damaged after a flight to LA (American Airlines). Should I ask for some kind of compensation?



If the airlines damaged it yes ask for compensation. If in warranty ask Senn for replacement and if none of both, well! looks like you have another expense on your head. Cheers


----------



## johnjen

bosiemoncrieff said:


> snip
> I found my single-ended HD800 cable damaged after a flight to LA (American Airlines). Should I ask for some kind of compensation?
> snip


You realize it was TSA and not American Airlines that 'inspected' (and damaged) your cable right?

They will weasel and worm and while it may take a while you will get something for the damaged cable.
Good luck.

JJ


----------



## thecrow

Shetzu said:


> If the airlines damaged it yes ask for compensation. If in warranty ask Senn for replacement and if none of both, well! looks like you have another expense on your head. Cheers


In case I haven’t mentioned it before here there have been /are some specials going on on the lcdx without the pelican case thrown in

The lcdx comes in about $200 more than the lcd2 rrp


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

It was gate checked. It had already been screened.


----------



## RCBinTN

bosiemoncrieff said:


> It was gate checked. It had already been screened.


Sorry to hear about your cable.
My compliments on the English lesson. Are you an English professor?


----------



## RCBinTN

bosiemoncrieff said:


> It was gate checked. It had already been screened.


I've traveled extensively with electronic gear, but always in carry-on not ever checked luggage.
Just prefer to keep the gear under my control instead of anyone else's.
I would certainly ask for compensation from the airline. Good luck!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

My official title is literacy specialist.


----------



## ruthieandjohn




----------



## RCBinTN

LOL. That is great.
BTW, the red superbly complements your gear!


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Not going to lie I appreciate the "Compliment" "Complement" explanation ha. That would be something I wouldn't realize I was mixing up in text.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Bonus points for your HD800 invoking the vocative case.


----------



## Shetzu

thecrow said:


> In case I haven’t mentioned it before here there have been /are some specials going on on the lcdx without the pelican case thrown in
> 
> The lcdx comes in about $200 more than the lcd2 rrp



Thanks copy that


----------



## Hansotek

Shetzu said:


> I have a strong inclination to buy the Audeze as a complement to my HD 800 (which I will retain as long as it works ). My only apprehensive is failure of drivers which many say is a painful shock and tedious method of replacement specially if you are living  in some other country. Spending $1000-1200 and then  if this happens makes me hold on more on time. I have been contemplating to buy for quite sometime but have held back. I really want to get the LCD-X or LCD3. Lets see how it goes.



I've never been a fan of the LCD-3 - try before you buy, if you haven't already. I just feel like that's a headphone that got outdated really quickly. YMMV. Some folks love it. Can't speak to the driver issues. That's mostly dumb luck.


----------



## RCBinTN

bosiemoncrieff said:


> My official title is literacy specialist.


That's a cool title, mate. 
It worked this time. 
I had no idea there were two complementary words.
Thanks, RCB


----------



## Shetzu

Hansotek said:


> I've never been a fan of the LCD-3 - try before you buy, if you haven't already. I just feel like that's a headphone that got outdated really quickly. YMMV. Some folks love it. Can't speak to the driver issues. That's mostly dumb luck.



Thanks for your inputs surely will listen before i take a plunge.


----------



## RCBinTN

FWIW...the LCD-2F and LCD-3F are darker in SQ than the X and XC.
Enjoy the search!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

The X has long been the most neutral in the Audeze lineup, though that says almost nothing lol. I haven't done an a/b of x and 4 in a critical listening conditions, though.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

bosiemoncrieff said:


> The X has long been the most neutral in the Audeze lineup, though that says almost nothing lol. I haven't done an a/b of x and 4 in a critical listening conditions, though.


i agree with you, the X is the most neutral of them that I have heard, but supposedly the new MX4 is neutral. Can any one comment on it?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I heard a prototype of one of the new magnesium ones, not sure if it was the MX4 or the 2C in March and it was definitely okay. I can't say it stood out from the lineup. I think Audeze is reinforcing, with their holiday pricing, the fact that we shouldn't pay more than $600 for an LCD2 new. Preowned, I'd say you're lucky if you get $400. With all their driver revisions, it's one of the most chaotic product histories around. HD800 has *one* revision, maybe, and then the S revision some seven years on. Much more professional, if you ask me.


----------



## Moochibond

A while back someone mentioned here in thread; Dekoni plan to release pads for the HD800. Anyone know if/when this may happen?


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Moochibond said:


> A while back someone mentioned here in thread; Dekoni plan to release pads for the HD800. Anyone know if/when this may happen?



I've been waiting for that actually. Dekoni said they would shoot an email if the pads are out for sale but, never received any email yet from them.


----------



## paradoxper

Tai said 45 days...back in October.


----------



## Moochibond

^^ Great, hopefully before Christmas!


----------



## SilverEars (Dec 11, 2017)

Ok, so I found out the DAC that was fed to the HDV820 made HD800 sound so clean, and very good as result.  It was LINN DS3 streaming DAC which is whopping 15, 800 british pounds!

I was just curious if the majority of the weight was on the amp section of HDV820 or the LINN.

Stupid me didn't compare the Sennheiser internal DAC to the LINN.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

For the cost of 9.2 Yggies, I would expect it to be "so clean"! My current curiosities are the WA22 and WA5/LE. I like MJ2 a lot, but post-Yggy, will be looking at more euphonic amplification.


----------



## thecrow (Dec 11, 2017)

bosiemoncrieff said:


> For the cost of 9.2 Yggies, I would expect it to be "so clean"! My current curiosities are the WA22 and WA5/LE. I like MJ2 a lot, but post-Yggy, will be looking at more euphonic amplification.


I breifly heard the wa5 with hd800 and lcd2 at a meet. Granted its the most expensive amp ive heard (with upgraded tubes) but WOW!!!!

This should work with all headphones or close to i would think

Great full tone.

I previously also heard the wa22 with stock tubes but i prefer my wa2 for my hd800. Wa2 has a great silky  smooth tone which for me sits great with the hd800


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Moochibond said:


> A while back someone mentioned here in thread; Dekoni plan to release pads for the HD800. Anyone know if/when this may happen?





paradoxper said:


> Tai said 45 days...back in October.



https://dekoniaudio.com/?s=hd800

It's already up on the web but currently in back ordered. If they put this on massdrop, maybe we could save extra 10 bucks.


----------



## paradoxper

I don't know what version of pad to buy. All?


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

All pads are thicker than the stock pad. Not sure how does that affect the soundstage though. The hybrid pads helps taming the 6kHz peak; at least, that's what Dekoni claims. I never heard them myself.


----------



## paradoxper

Interesting. I put in for the Elite Sheepskin. I asked Tal to provide some thoughts on the rest and may add the hybrids.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

I might go for the hybrid myself. They are super comfy and the headphone placed really well on my head


----------



## Moochibond

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> https://dekoniaudio.com/?s=hd800
> 
> It's already up on the web but currently in back ordered. If they put this on massdrop, maybe we could save extra 10 bucks.



Nice!

WOW lots of interesting options to choose from. 

Surprised the leather pad versions do not have a felt type lining on the inner ring of the pad. It is after all a known mod implemented by owners of HE-6 to tame treble peak.

Still, very much looking forward to getting a pair or two.


----------



## greggf

fwiw, I've been finding myself involuntarily falling asleep when using the HD800S.  Literally.  So I decided to get the HD800 to mix things up.  

I do NOT fall asleep when listening to the regular, stock HD800.  

Yes, the HD800 treble can be problematic with bad recordings, but with ALL recordings my level of alertness and interest has increased.  Analytical listening can be fun.  I don't think it's a matter of raw detail - the HD800S seems to do just as well with the small things - it's a matter of spotlighting more brightly.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I find HD800S just to put a blanket over detail. The bass is boosted but woolier.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I find HD800S just to put a blanket over detail. The bass is boosted but woolier.


 I love the bass on the 800S. I wouldn’t call it wooly at all. It sounds right and accurate to me.


----------



## paradoxper

Dekoni is on the right track
.


----------



## Moochibond

paradoxper said:


> Dekoni is on the right track
> .



They look very comfortable?

Have they changed the sound, especially the treble?


----------



## paradoxper

Comfort level jumped to 009 levels now. I feel perhaps some form of actual clamp.

The most immediate difference in sound I'm hearing is more space and depth with improved imaging. 
Little upticks than anything drastic. Still, though, appreciable.


----------



## bearFNF

Were they easier to put on than the stock pads or the same?

The sheep skin looks tempting.



paradoxper said:


> Comfort level jumped to 009 levels now. I feel perhaps some form of actual clamp.
> 
> The most immediate difference in sound I'm hearing is more space and depth with improved imaging.
> Little upticks than anything drastic. Still, though, appreciable.


----------



## paradoxper

bearFNF said:


> Were they easier to put on than the stock pads or the same?
> 
> The sheep skin looks tempting.


Trick question? 
One tenth easier to put on.


----------



## bearFNF

paradoxper said:


> Trick question?
> One tenth easier to put on.


The reason I ask is that it looks like the "clip/frame" is built into the ear pads and not the PITA that the stock loose frame is.


----------



## paradoxper

Correct. I've never had issue with the HD800 pads. The Dekoni pads do "click-in" more securely.


----------



## bearFNF

Just ordered the Sheepskin, hybrid, and fenestrated sheepskin. Amazon is a weakness.


----------



## paradoxper

You gotta compare the pads with/out the SDR. I have the Code-Sex and Code-X coming in, so I know where my priorities are going.


----------



## bearFNF (Dec 20, 2017)

Yep, Will do. Liquid Gold will get a work out over the break.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

It's a pity that Cavalli is shuttered. I suppose their amps will become collectors' items. Unless the designs are handed over to Massdrop, of course.


----------



## Hansotek

bosiemoncrieff said:


> It's a pity that Cavalli is shuttered. I suppose their amps will become collectors' items. Unless the designs are handed over to Massdrop, of course.



Okay, who hacked Bosie’s account??? 

You seemed to have so much venom for them when their doors were still open.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I mean it was a bad value proposition but I'm sorry every time the marketplace becomes thinner. Jason and Mike can't just compete against themselves all day.


----------



## 336881

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I mean it was a bad value proposition but I'm sorry every time the marketplace becomes thinner. Jason and Mike can't just compete against themselves all day.



??? I guess you haven't heard of ECP or Apex? Try the Teton or DSHA-4. Those amps, at least for the hd800, are better than anything that Schiit ever made and Headamp for that matter.


----------



## WilsonT90 (Dec 21, 2017)

Bluetooth!?
I plugged my hd800 into my Xbox one controller. It makes sounds. Hurrah!


----------



## 336881

paradoxper said:


> Comfort level jumped to 009 levels now. I feel perhaps some form of actual clamp.
> 
> The most immediate difference in sound I'm hearing is more space and depth with improved imaging.
> Little upticks than anything drastic. Still, though, appreciable.



The ear pads were nicer quality on the 009. The best ear pads on any headphone as far as I'm concerned. But the 009 itself was very middle of the road comfort wise where the hd800 was on a whole other level and the most comfortable headphone I have ever worn.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

antimatter said:


> ??? I guess you haven't heard of ECP or Apex? Try the Teton or DSHA-4. Those amps, at least for the hd800, are better than anything that Schiit ever made and Headamp for that matter.



You guess correctly! Link to some reviews. You’ve caught my interest. Right now wa22 is my next move.


----------



## paradoxper

antimatter said:


> ??? I guess you haven't heard of ECP or Apex? Try the Teton or DSHA-4. Those amps, at least for the hd800, are better than anything that Schiit ever made and Headamp for that matter.


We can agree on at least one thing. Ha.


----------



## 336881

bosiemoncrieff said:


> You guess correctly! Link to some reviews. You’ve caught my interest. Right now wa22 is my next move.



Apex is sold by Todd the Vinyl Junkie. ECP (Doug) you have to contact via email. Not all Apex amps are geared for the hd800, just the Teton imo.


----------



## claud W (Dec 21, 2017)

antimatter said:


> ??? I guess you haven't heard of ECP or Apex? Try the Teton or DSHA-4. Those amps, at least for the hd800, are better than anything that Schiit ever made and Headamp for that matter.



You really want better than Schiit , Apex, Eddie Current? In this forum, there are Stellaris and Stratus threads. These are fabulous amps made by Donald North that take the HD800 as good as it gets and other top headphones too Just read the threads.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

antimatter said:


> The ear pads were nicer quality on the 009. The best ear pads on any headphone as far as I'm concerned. But the 009 itself was very middle of the road comfort wise where the hd800 was on a whole other level and the most comfortable headphone I have ever worn.



+1 

Doug's amps especially the DSHA series are amazing for HD800


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I heard the stratus in person this past August. It was good.


----------



## claud W

If you read the Stratus and Stellaris threads, you will realize that these are HD 800 amps. Even the Super Dupont mod inventor is a Stratus owner and thread poster. If you want to see a beautiful headphone amp, Go to Donald North Audio website. 
I have 10 more months to wait for my Stratus. Meanwhile I have my Cavalli LC 2.0 and Ragg to entertain me.


----------



## astrostar59

greggf said:


> fwiw, I've been finding myself involuntarily falling asleep when using the HD800S.  Literally.  So I decided to get the HD800 to mix things up.
> 
> I do NOT fall asleep when listening to the regular, stock HD800.
> 
> Yes, the HD800 treble can be problematic with bad recordings, but with ALL recordings my level of alertness and interest has increased.  Analytical listening can be fun.  I don't think it's a matter of raw detail - the HD800S seems to do just as well with the small things - it's a matter of spotlighting more brightly.



I think I would term that as fatigue, as in annoying treble. If the HD800s is easier to live with, that may suit my tastes better. I heard it at Can-Jam on 2 Senn amps and was under whelmed. Quite possibly it will rock on bigger meatier maps.


----------



## paradoxper

You trying to jump ship, Julian?


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Has anyone had any chance to try the hybrid dekoni pad with HD800? Curious on the sound. If it changes a lot and not for the better, I might gonna go for the standard elite velour.


----------



## bearFNF

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Has anyone had any chance to try the hybrid dekoni pad with HD800? Curious on the sound. If it changes a lot and not for the better, I might gonna go for the standard elite velour.


Mine will be here on the 27th. I report back.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

bearFNF said:


> Mine will be here on the 27th. I report back.



Looking forward to it!


----------



## PinkyPowers

Ordered the Sheepskin off Massdrop. Can't wait to try them. I'm curious if things like bass will increase and a little worried if the treble might get hotter.


----------



## Makiah S

Curious to hear how the pads improve things! Happy to see Dekoni have their own measurements up for the pads

I'm pretty content with mine as it. Just need a new cable, not to sure about the MD one though I'll likely wait to have one built by a friend, non the less digging into the HD 800 again tonight! An wow! I'm always surprised by all the little things that pop out at me every time I put these on


----------



## heliosphann

Ordered the Elite Velour and Sheepskin pads from Massdrop. This will force me to give my HD800 some attention. It seems to get lost with all the latest "flavor of the week".


----------



## Makiah S

heliosphann said:


> Ordered the Elite Velour and Sheepskin pads from Massdrop. This will force me to give my HD800 some attention. It seems to get lost with all the latest "flavor of the week".



I went with basic old Stock pads and SDR Mod, not sure I want to mix the pads and the mods. I like the tonal balance as is! 

Cable wise what do you guys like? I've only used Toxic Cables in the past and frankly I was impressed, but his build time is atrocious and it'll be shipping from the UK so that's even MORE wait time. But I'd like to have a bit more resolve from my HD 800 and a cable seems to be the next step, at least before I get a whole new dac/amp [which might take all of next year to find/demo/explore] 

My other option as suggested by our ... less polite more volatile and very DISTANT neighbors is from Ted Allen, 2 things, his prices are pretty solid, and he seems to be well received! Plus his response time's are insanely fast... has any one had a good experience with him as well, I would imagine so? Price wise it's similar between the two, before any discounts promo's ect... at this point though I guess I'm just double checking on Ted. As frankly, I don't want to wait for a Toxic cable... unless a MASSIVE amount of you feel it's just THAT MUCH better


----------



## bearFNF (Dec 31, 2017)

Well, so far I am not liking the Hybrid for either comfort or SQ, they ssseem to exssaggerate the "ssss" in wordsss and I do not like the velour as compared to the leather. Gets uncomfortable for me after a while.

The fenestrated sheepskin seems to "eat" the sound, it seems to loose definition and makes the stage seem somewhat hollow.

So the upshot so far is that I am liking the elite sheepskin the best so far.

LOL, another note, when I first got them right off the UPS truck they were hard as a rock, thought something was wrong, It was -25F that day so they were just reeally cold. Once they warm up they are pretty soft and conform well when wearing them.


----------



## Makiah S

How do the Elite Sheepskin compare to stock then?


----------



## bearFNF

To me it seems that the elite sheepskin are more comfortable and the stage seems to be slightly larger with more 'sense' of the stage.
I am kind of surprised i notice the Location/positional cues more readily with the elite pads.
It is not a huge difference but noticable to me.

I forgot to mention that this is all with the SRD mod still installed. I may take it out later to see what happens but so far i see no need to remove it.


----------



## Makiah S

bearFNF said:


> To me it seems that the elite sheepskin are more comfortable and the stage seems to be slightly larger with more 'sense' of the stage.
> I am kind of surprised i notice the Location/positional cues more readily with the elite pads.
> It is not a huge difference but noticable to me.
> 
> I forgot to mention that this is all with the SRD mod still installed. I may take it out later to see what happens but so far i see no need to remove it.



That's worthwhile! These may be worth listening too, I'm looking over cable options at the moment... I'm kinda drawn towards OCC Silver but I worry about the... edge. I've got nothing but OCC copper for most of my headphones at the moment... A larger sense of stage might be due to some additional thickness on the part of the pads maybe? Either way, good to hear precision takes a step forward... maybe a copper cable and these pads might be better than the added cost to go silver


----------



## bearFNF

I am using "Q" french silk cable with mine. (ultra-fine stranded Type 2 copper litz)


----------



## Makiah S

bearFNF said:


> I am using "Q" french silk cable with mine. (ultra-fine stranded Type 2 copper litz)



Well OCC Copper is my go to as I have it for EVERYTHING, but the HD 800 is... warmer than I expect it to be... how ever I've got a pretty cold DAC at the moment. So ideally Copper would be the way to go, I imagine it can't be any colder than the Hybrid mix Senn is using in the stock cable... but will Silver be THAT much brighter with the SDR? 

Mid January I'll be buying maybe I'll get both and have a little shoot out!


----------



## PinkyPowers

Mshenay said:


> That's worthwhile! These may be worth listening too, I'm looking over cable options at the moment... I'm kinda drawn towards OCC Silver but I worry about the... edge. I've got nothing but OCC copper for most of my headphones at the moment... A larger sense of stage might be due to some additional thickness on the part of the pads maybe? Either way, good to hear precision takes a step forward... maybe a copper cable and these pads might be better than the added cost to go silver



Cardas copper is expensive, but oh so magical with the HD800. Rich, clear, and warm all rolled together.


----------



## Thenewguy007

bearFNF said:


> Well, so far I am not liking the Hybrid for either comfort or SQ, they ssseem to exssaggerate the "ssss" in wordsss and I do not like the velour as compared to the leather. Gets uncomfortable for me after a while.
> 
> The fenestrated sheepskin seems to "eat" the sound, it seems to loose definition and makes the stage seem somewhat hollow.
> 
> ...



Memory foam hardens up when it is exposed to cold, but my impressions with the Elite Sheepskins is similar to yours.

The wider soundstage is the biggest noticeable improvement right off the bat.

I foolishly bought 2 pairs of the earpads thinking they might be hard to come by later on in the future, but it wasn't the case & I'm selling one of my pair in the classifieds.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

My venus audio cable uses cardas, and I enjoy the sound, though the knockoff connectors are loose. I never had any problem with my stock cable until it was damaged on an american airlines flight.


----------



## Yviena (Jan 4, 2018)

bearFNF said:


> Well, so far I am not liking the Hybrid for either comfort or SQ, they ssseem to exssaggerate the "ssss" in wordsss and I do not like the velour as compared to the leather. Gets uncomfortable for me after a while.
> 
> The fenestrated sheepskin seems to "eat" the sound, it seems to loose definition and makes the stage seem somewhat hollow.
> 
> ...



Hmm i'm wondering if maybe the thin fabric behind the dekoni ear pads is to blame for the sound. Maybe it becomes better if it's cut with a scissor leaving the driver  unobstructed.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Yviena said:


> Hmm i'm wondering if maybe the thin fabric behind the dekoni ear pads is to blame for the sound. Maybe it becomes better if it's cut with a scissor leaving the driver  unobstructed.



Good idea! Though someone has to take the chance to ruin their brand new pair.

I used the stock HD800 earpads without the dust cover & it alwyas sounded better to me than with them on.


----------



## Yviena

Thenewguy007 said:


> Good idea! Though someone has to take the chance to ruin their brand new pair.
> 
> I used the stock HD800 earpads without the dust cover & it alwyas sounded better to me than with them on.


Actually i see that he uses the SDR mod with the dekoni pads, i think that the pads where made for stock config without dustfilters in mind.


----------



## LugBug1

4-5 years thinking HD800 are the best I'm gonna get for my tastes.. Has recently been overturned by the HEX v2. Proper sad to see them go - seriously! But technology is fast and there are some clever designers out there, who are a little ahead now days. 

Forever in my heart and ears  Rest. In (someone else's ears coz they sold). Peace  

But, I can say to anyone who has just acquired some, or are still enjoying them - stop trying to fix them!!! They are perfect for what they are designed for at the time of design. No headphone has caused so much marmite hatred and love - no headphone has been used for reference purposes since the HD600 and that's saying something!. 

There is no headphone like the HD800.


----------



## Makiah S

LugBug1 said:


> 4-5 years thinking HD800 are the best I'm gonna get for my tastes.. Has recently been overturned by the HEX v2. Proper sad to see them go - seriously! But technology is fast and there are some clever designers out there, who are a little ahead now days.
> 
> Forever in my heart and ears  Rest. In (someone else's ears coz they sold). Peace
> 
> ...



I had an HE 4 for EVER! I was quite content with it, the HEX V1 didn't quite impress me when I heard it a few years back... badly designed and the tuning was less than ideal

Non the less I have a soft spot for Hifiman! Happy to hear the V2 swayed you over, what was teh biggest differance


----------



## Thenewguy007

LugBug1 said:


> 4-5 years thinking HD800 are the best I'm gonna get for my tastes.. Has recently been overturned by the HEX v2. Proper sad to see them go - seriously! But technology is fast and there are some clever designers out there, who are a little ahead now days.
> 
> Forever in my heart and ears  Rest. In (someone else's ears coz they sold). Peace
> 
> ...



The HEX v2 definitely felt inferior to the HD800 when I had it. Noticeably worse resolution, midbass/midrange felt thinner/recessed & staging was obviously not as wide. It had the HD800 beat in the lows, but not by much.
The HE1000 V1 with V2 eapads was the closest to dethroning the HD800, but in the end I kept the HD800.
I just couldn't get over the softness of the HE1000 in comparison to the HD800. Even though maybe buying silver headphone cables might have reminded that.

The HEK had a wide stage, at first I thought they were just as wide as the HD800, but after A/B comparisons it's noticeable that the HD800 is wider.
Mids felt a little bit more recessed or hazy by a thinny bit, though midbass was noticeably thicker & holographic.
Sub bass on the HEK was actually worse from what I remember on the HEX.
Resolution was on par, but there was a slowness & softness to the transients that I couldn't get past.

I wish I still had the HE1000, they sounded great, but I think I made the right choice (given the price of the HEK) by sticking with the HD800.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

K1000 occasionally exceeds HD800 in certain respects, but has so many problems apart from its ridiculous power requirements that I could never recommend it unreservedly. MySphere might be the one that steals the crown, though its utopia-level price will prevent it ever from competing in the same (~$700 used?) space.


----------



## heliosphann

Thenewguy007 said:


> The HEX v2 definitely felt inferior to the HD800 when I had it. Noticeably worse resolution, midbass/midrange felt thinner/recessed & staging was obviously not as wide. It had the HD800 beat in the lows, but not by much.
> The HE1000 V1 with V2 eapads was the closest to dethroning the HD800, but in the end I kept the HD800.
> I just couldn't get over the softness of the HE1000 in comparison to the HD800. Even though maybe buying silver headphone cables might have reminded that.
> 
> ...



I had the HEX v2 and HEK v1 at the same time (still have the HEK) and I can say without hesitation that the HEK's sub bass is far superior to the HEX in every aspect. Maybe you're thinking of the mid bass, which the HEX does has more of. I've heard a lot of headphones and I still consider the HEK's to have some of the best sub bass out there.

I always thought the HD800's were a good compliment to the HEK's. Both are headphones I've held onto for a long time and probably will continue to.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Thenewguy007 said:


> Memory foam hardens up when it is exposed to cold, but my impressions with the Elite Sheepskins is similar to yours.
> 
> The wider soundstage is the biggest noticeable improvement right off the bat.
> 
> I foolishly bought 2 pairs of the earpads thinking they might be hard to come by later on in the future, but it wasn't the case & I'm selling one of my pair in the classifieds.






bearFNF said:


> To me it seems that the elite sheepskin are more comfortable and the stage seems to be slightly larger with more 'sense' of the stage.
> I am kind of surprised i notice the Location/positional cues more readily with the elite pads.
> It is not a huge difference but noticable to me.
> 
> I forgot to mention that this is all with the SRD mod still installed. I may take it out later to see what happens but so far i see no need to remove it.



Just received the sheepskin. Bought them from @Thenewguy007 

Definitely noticed the wider soundstage as I tried the same song before and after changing the pad. Not sure about other improvements but loving them both SQ and comfort


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Do we need a wider soundstage? HD800 is really, really wide. K1000 is different, but superior mostly due to openness and supremely natural imaging, not to added width per se.


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Do we need a wider soundstage? HD800 is really, really wide. K1000 is different, but superior mostly due to openness and supremely natural imaging, not to added width per se.



I agree, wide enough, especially for large scale works.


----------



## roshambo

Hello all,

My first post here. I'm a new HD800 owner, and new to high end audio in general, although I've been employed for 4 years as a broadcast engineer, so I run into various production gear daily. 

My setup is my PC > Modi 2 Multibit > Vali 2 (JJ Goldpins 6922 tube) > HD800 (non-SDR) and I'm listening to 320 Kbps / 44.1 sources.

A few days ago I installed the Dekoni Velour pads on the HD800. In terms of comfort and clamp, they're a good improvement over stock. Sound wise, while I didn't do a serious A/B vs stock pads, I do believe they change the frequency response. I'd say the response graph published by Dekoni seems about right, showing some marginal improvement to bass and taming of the high treble. Perhaps a hair warmer? Bottom line, I find myself wearing my HD800's more and longer. I'd definitely recommend them.

Rosh


----------



## Moochibond

HD 820 - $2399.95

Here's a link: https://en-us.sennheiser.com/high-end-headphones-audiophiles-hd-820


----------



## bosiemoncrieff (Jan 8, 2018)

I'll take the N90Q, thanks. Also, that new amp/dac sounds like crap. Harsh, sibilant, painful. Whether Sennheiser should be in the amp business, they should absolutely _*not*_ be in the DAC business.


----------



## paradoxper

bearFNF said:


> I am using "Q" french silk cable with mine. (ultra-fine stranded Type 2 copper litz)


The best.


----------



## yates7592

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Do we need a wider soundstage? HD800 is really, really wide. K1000 is different, but superior mostly due to openness and supremely natural imaging, not to added width per se.



Could somebody ponit me to an old mini-review on Head-Fi comparing K1000 soundstage to HD800 soundstage, using a live church or cathedral recording (as I seem to remember). It was quite long and very detailed, I've been searching for days and just can't find it anywhere. Thanks in advance if anybody knows where this is (it definitely exists!).


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Perhaps it was the series by @bosiemoncrieff, with keyboard in one, opera in this one, here:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread.650510/page-1562#post-12815891


----------



## yates7592

Thanks for the suggestion. I did also find that series, and I don't think that was it. It was outside of the main HD800 thread I'm pretty sure.


----------



## Makiah S

I have to say I've never really enjoyed the HD 800 outside of my home system. Even my own HM901/Pico Power are a bit underwhelming, however I'm really surprised at the naturalness of this combo! 




 

Not as resolving as the Hm901/Pico Power set up but so much more pleasurable to listen to!


----------



## paradoxper

All you need now are some Dekoni pads.


----------



## Makiah S

paradoxper said:


> All you need now are some Dekoni pads.


Nah, I think the SDR mod is enough to balanced out the sound signature, but I do need a new cable! Should have one by the end of the month


----------



## paradoxper

Sigh. Ha.


----------



## yates7592

Does anybody here know how the Dana Lazuli vs Draug2 cables compare with HD800?


----------



## DavidA

yates7592 said:


> Does anybody here know how the Dana Lazuli vs Draug2 cables compare with HD800?


A glass of wine might have a better effect if you are looking for a cable that has any sonic difference, but this is just my opinion after trying cables from Double-Helix and Forza.  These cables are works of art but don't provide any sonic improvements from my limited experience.


----------



## Thenewguy007

DavidA said:


> A glass of wine might have a better effect if you are looking for a cable that has any sonic difference, but this is just my opinion after trying cables from Double-Helix and Forza.  These cables are works of art but don't provide any sonic improvements from my limited experience.



Really? I can hear a big noticeable difference.


----------



## yates7592

DavidA said:


> A glass of wine might have a better effect if you are looking for a cable that has any sonic difference, but this is just my opinion after trying cables from Double-Helix and Forza.  These cables are works of art but don't provide any sonic improvements from my limited experience.



Doesn't really answer my question but thanks for your lucid insight.


----------



## DavidA

yates7592 said:


> Doesn't really answer my question but thanks for your lucid insight.


Yes it doesn't really answer your question, but I've yet to hear a headphone cable make a sonic change in any headphone unless there was something wrong with the cable.  If you want sonic improvements/changes I feel that funds are better spent on tubes (if you have a tube amp), better quality music, an amp that pairs better with the HD800, a different DAC, or another headphone.


----------



## Yviena (Jan 16, 2018)

Just received my Dekoni Fenestrated Sheepskin pads the comfort and clamp is amazing now and it feels much better with eyeglasses on also.

I do notice a bass increase and some increase in space imaging is better too so it seems it works.

DNB and Dubstep type of music sounds much better with the added bass, before the dekoni pads i usually switched to my Beyer T1 for that type of music.


----------



## gordec (Jan 19, 2018)

Just got to try my friend's SDR modded HD800. I much preferred it than the Utopia. The soundstage and separation made it sound as clear as the Utopia. I got HE1000 V2 coming this weekend. I have to decide if I even want to open it. The HD800 is also crazy comfortable.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

though not as wet


----------



## yates7592

Is it easy to swap out the stock pads for Dekoni, if so, how to do please? Also, is the Dekoni pad mod intended to be instread of SDR or as well as SDR? Anybody done both?


----------



## LugBug1 (Jan 19, 2018)

Thenewguy007 said:


> The HEX v2 definitely felt inferior to the HD800 when I had it. Noticeably worse resolution, midbass/midrange felt thinner/recessed & staging was obviously not as wide. It had the HD800 beat in the lows, but not by much.
> The HE1000 V1 with V2 eapads was the closest to dethroning the HD800, but in the end I kept the HD800.
> I just couldn't get over the softness of the HE1000 in comparison to the HD800. Even though maybe buying silver headphone cables might have reminded that.
> 
> ...




Yes it took me a long time to decide and lots and lots of comparing. I found that comparing them is hard as they are very differently tuned. So yes, instant wow with the HD800 soundstage. But also instant What? are they doing to brass instruments haha. On the other foot, the HEX sound noticeably warmer and narrower. But when you give them each enough time that's when you find which is better for you personally. I find that the HEX are much MUCH faster and neutral sounding (apart from) the warmth that is added colour at the bottom and there is a slight roll off at the top   The HD800 are the opposite of this. But in all honesty I find the HD800 the more colored and artificial sounding. The timbre of instruments sound sooo life-like on the hifiman's. I also like the way they deal with complex music, I never seem to hear smearing. The HD800's treble for me seems to take your attention away from the mids at times. They also seem to miss a lot of lower treble information in comparison. Choral music will never sound better or more impressive than with the HD800 and the huge canvas given to the singers. But at the same time, I actually here more detail and texture - realism with the HEX, albeit with a smaller stage. Pros and cons..

I mostly listen to classical music and the HD800/HD600 have been good ole reliable friends for me for a very long time (especially the HD600). Incidentally, I consider the HEX to be very much in line with the HD600's tuning, only without the little 4k peak. But with added sub-bass and larger soundstage. To me, that's a recipe for pleasing a lot of head-fiers.

Must stress. I've never owned a high end amp with the HD800. I found my love with vintage amps and thought they paired very well. I've still owned some decent headphone amps with them but nothing that I would consider high end.

I also must stress, I'm only negating the HD800 for comparison purposes. Never for annoying anyone - its still my favourite headphone ever! Based on how long I've owned it and the pleasure it has given me.


----------



## LugBug1

Mshenay said:


> I had an HE 4 for EVER! I was quite content with it, the HEX V1 didn't quite impress me when I heard it a few years back... badly designed and the tuning was less than ideal
> 
> Non the less I have a soft spot for Hifiman! Happy to hear the V2 swayed you over, what was teh biggest differance



The biggest difference as mentioned in my post above is the realism and timbre of instruments. Also the speed and control of complex music. I've owned the HD800 twice, the HD600 3 times and the HD650 3 times haha Keep going back to them... 
I've owned the Hifiman HE500, HE400i (still have these) and now the HEX. Love both manufacturers. I also own the classic LCD2.1 but it spends most of its time as an ornament... looks the part! but its not even as good as the HE400i IMHO.  Cheers


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Audeze is a very specific, dark sound. It's great at that, but for clarity it doesn't really excel.


----------



## paradoxper

yates7592 said:


> Is it easy to swap out the stock pads for Dekoni, if so, how to do please? Also, is the Dekoni pad mod intended to be instread of SDR or as well as SDR? Anybody done both?


Very much so.


----------



## yates7592

Thanks. I am actually really seriously considering purchasing HD800 for the 3rd time, having bought and sold twice. Am I mad?


----------



## gordec

I'm trying to decide between HD800, HD800s or HE1000 v2. I have spend the past 2 days listening to my friend's SDR modded HD800. It's absolutely perfect in terms of sound signature driven by Woo WA8. The bass may lack some extension and punch, but I'm perfectly ok with it. I assume HD800s sounds very similar right? I guess if there is any point to spend a few hundred bucks for HD800s. Tomorrow HEK comes in. It will be tough to decide. I may not even open the HEK since it's more than 2x the cost of the HD800. Not sure if I will like it 2x as much.


----------



## yates7592

Yviena said:


> Just received my Dekoni Fenestrated Sheepskin pads the comfort and clamp is amazing now and it feels much better with eyeglasses on also.
> 
> I do notice a bass increase and some increase in space imaging is better too so it seems it works.
> 
> DNB and Dubstep type of music sounds much better with the added bass, before the dekoni pads i usually switched to my Beyer T1 for that type of music.



Thanks for your impressions. Do you notice any reduction in the 6khz peak, as claimed on Dekoni's graphs? (and are you using SDR mod please?)


----------



## Yviena

A bit unsure as the 6khz peak never bothered me so much but I think it has decreased a little, nope using only stock hd800 without dustcovers with dekoni pads.


----------



## whirlwind

yates7592 said:


> Thanks. I am actually really seriously considering purchasing HD800 for the 3rd time, having bought and sold twice. Am I mad?




Ha, I think I have done this with the HD650.

The HD800 is a wonderful headphone...I would bet that you will keep it with your new amp


----------



## hikaru12

Here's my final configuration - still might need a little more tweaking but strikes a good balance between warmth and detail with SDR Modded 800's:
Valhalla 2 w/ JJ Gold Pins, Mimby (to be upgraded to Gumby) and EqualizerAPO settings as follows:

Current EQ Preset (Updated 11/29/2017):
Channel: all
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 200 Hz Gain -0.5 dB Q 1.41
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 2000 Hz Gain 3 dB Q 1.41
Filter 14: ON PK Fc 13000 Hz Gain 1 dB Q 2

I'd tweak the Q values if you want less mids and overlaying warmth but this really cuts out the sharp sword like S's on some treble compensated songs.


----------



## yates7592

Does anybody know the cheapest place at present in the EU to buy new and unused HD800 (but I'm not particularly needing warranty as I will mod anyway), I just want new and unused. I'm looking on Ebay as there are usually 'grey' market sellers but nothing at all at the moment. Anywhere else? Thanks!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I got mine used and replaced the ear pads and headband. It looked and felt good as new.


----------



## Makiah S

Picked up my cables from the post office today, wow! @teds headfood excellent work man!!! I personally like a sheathing on my cables but these are sooooo prettty... soo pretty. Way prettier than in person so I'll enjoy it as is

As for sound, I thought things would be too bright with silver on the HD 800 but that's not been the case at all there's an immediate sense of clarity that wasn't there before... and dare a say a bit more aggression! For some of you that might be a bad thing, for me... I found the HD 800 stock to be... almost too slow. The SDR mod didn't help as the 6k peak created a sense of psudeo speed, but the mod did improve the resolve. This cable was however just what I felt the HD 800 needed, the decay is every big as magical as before, the resolve is better, the speed is improved! Everything's just that much clearer, EVEN better

Also funny, my Project Ember II is set to bypass the input caps and cathode's as I found that to lessen what was a harder top end. Apparently if you do so the vol pot can introduce some noise, well with the HD 800 stock cable it was silent. Now how ever there's just a little bit of scratch when I adjust the knob! Which I was warned about/expected so it's nice to see the silver cable helped reveal even that! All in all I'm quite happy with it, I'll have a comparison of the two sonically here shortly as I'm sure other's of you will also be curious which way to go


----------



## Thenewguy007

I second teds headfood/Headphonelounge. Super fast & quality cables.

One of the most underrated cable makers.


----------



## joespride

yates7592 said:


> Does anybody know the cheapest place at present in the EU to buy new and unused HD800 (but I'm not particularly needing warranty as I will mod anyway), I just want new and unused. I'm looking on Ebay as there are usually 'grey' market sellers but nothing at all at the moment. Anywhere else? Thanks!



I just snapped up a new pair on Amazon for 1099.00

Joe


----------



## Makiah S

joespride said:


> I just snapped up a new pair on Amazon for 1099.00
> 
> Joe



ooooh go you!

And you likely know this already, but your in for a treat! Slap your Ember II into 32R out and enjoy man!!!


----------



## joespride

Yep they are my 2nd pair..............as a side 2 days after purchase on Amazon I found a seller on Audiogon  (His username is NAX) he described the cans as " Like new, Open Box, Warranty Dealer" for 699.00  I almost S#$T 100% positive feedback I said hell Yea. Bought them instantly

Delivered today  Early serial 5119 at least 5 years old, ear pads are completely shot, paint chips, dent in the rear screen cover, obviously Sennheiser wont warranty them. Sellers excuse well the price BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. If you are unhappy you can return them what a PITA I can not understand a seller that thinks the offer to accept a return equals everything is ok

The only good thing on them is they play music and do sound like i remember from a couple years ago.........................I am already thinking new pads.


----------



## Makiah S

joespride said:


> Yep they are my 2nd pair..............as a side 2 days after purchase on Amazon I found a seller on Audiogon  (His username is NAX) he described the cans as " Like new, Open Box, Warranty Dealer" for 699.00  I almost S#$T 100% positive feedback I said hell Yea. Bought them instantly
> 
> Delivered today  Early serial 5119 at least 5 years old, ear pads are completely shot, paint chips, dent in the rear screen cover, obviously Sennheiser wont warranty them. Sellers excuse well the price BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. If you are unhappy you can return them what a PITA I can not understand a seller that thinks the offer to accept a return equals everything is ok
> 
> The only good thing on them is they play music and do sound like i remember from a couple years ago.........................I am already thinking new pads.



boooo, shame on him :/ happy he accepted a return, but I hear mixed things about AudioGon sellers... though I am my self a seller there but I only use their payment platform and advertise here 

Here's to hoping this next one is the one!!!!


----------



## yates7592

I found new HD800 for £789 with 12 months warranty in UK.


----------



## JamieMcC

£789 nice deal and great piece of mind buying new with a warranty.


----------



## c0rp1 (Feb 1, 2018)

Hello,

I'm able to get a pair of used HD800 for about 350 Euro (no box incl.). Problem is that they'll probably need a headband and an ear pads replacements, cause on the photos the whole headphones are covered in small black dots (most probably coming fro the headband which is peeling off strongly). What I'd like to know is, do I definitely need to buy original replacements, or there's a possibility to get cheaper ones, but without compromising on comfort and sound quality?

Also, is there some sort of timetable that shows an approximate date of manufacturing based on their serial number? The ones I'm talking about are with a S/N of 08xxx, so I guess they are pretty old...

And in general what should I look for when buying a used HD800 pair (e.g. how to check if they have been opened up for modding or have been repaired)?

Thank you in advance!

P.S. What do you think about the price given the fact they are not in that good of a cosmetical condition?


----------



## joespride

Mshenay said:


> boooo, shame on him :/ happy he accepted a return, but I hear mixed things about AudioGon sellers... though I am my self a seller there but I only use their payment platform and advertise here
> 
> Here's to hoping this next one is the one!!!!



I wont send them back unless he buys them back IOW he must pay for them B-4  I ship them. (I follow a simple rule fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me) IMHO he has already proven un-trustworthy

Sat back and listened for a few hours last night. and other than the poor comfort , and sound loss due to worn out pads I was pretty happy. J-River > modded MHDT Havana > Ampsandsound SE84 > HD800 = 

Now I must decide do I invest the time and money in the older cans or list them HONESTLY for condition and try to recoup most of my $$$$ while keeping the new Amazon pair. Decisions, Decisions kissing: I would really like to keep both but dont tell the  )


----------



## Makiah S

Mod the worn pair, like all in! Pad mods super resonator grill mods ect... 

N keep the other fairly stock


----------



## joespride

Do you have links to the mods ?  I am on a budget so will need to see how much $$$$$$$$ the mods cost.......................Good idea though (why didn't I think of it  )


----------



## c0rp1

c0rp1 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm able to get a pair of used HD800 for about 350 Euro (no box incl.). Problem is that they'll probably need a headband and an ear pads replacements, cause on the photos the whole headphones are covered in small black dots (most probably coming fro the headband which is peeling off strongly). What I'd like to know is, do I definitely need to buy original replacements, or there's a possibility to get cheaper ones, but without compromising on comfort and sound quality?
> 
> ...



Anyone?


----------



## Makiah S

joespride said:


> Do you have links to the mods ?  I am on a budget so will need to see how much $$$$$$$$ the mods cost.......................Good idea though (why didn't I think of it  )



diyah has a thread for the HD 800 actually, as do other communities. Oh!!! You can also pm @Maxx134 he's got a pretty cool set of HD 800 mods as well most of them aren't expensive just time consuming and there's always the potential to destroy your cans forever... but this is a spare so :3 no worries 

If your hand with a soldering iron some ppl have said directly wiring the cable makes a big difference too,


----------



## Maxx134

joespride said:


> Do you have links to the mods ?  I am on a budget so will need to see how much $$$$$$$$ the mods cost.......................Good idea though (why didn't I think of it  )


Mods are low cost.



c0rp1 said:


> Anyone?


Buy new ear pads and buy new padding for headband is not a problem.
Watch out don't buy replacement leather type pads as there are a few new versions out but the impressions are not as good as stock pads.
It still worth it to keep and buy the pads.
Black pieces are definitely worn pads or headband.


----------



## paradoxper

Replace the headband and replace the pads with Dekoni's. Puts you at an extra $100 in.


----------



## Maxx134 (Feb 1, 2018)

paradoxper said:


> Replace the headband and replace the pads with Dekoni's. Puts you at an extra $100 in.


The issue is there are more than one version of the Dekoni,
 and untill I hear if any of them is as good or better than stock,
 I would not recommend, as initial reports to me we not positive.
 so unless anyone wants to try and take the chance on the  ferensrated ( one with the perforated holes may be good) version thats up to them.
It still a bit cheaper than stock pads


----------



## paradoxper

Then let me say, buy the Dekoni Elite Sheepskin.


----------



## Maxx134

I think if Sennhieser sells the HD820 pads in future that would be a possible good choice, 
But probably more expensive


----------



## paradoxper

They look similar.


----------



## Thenewguy007 (Feb 1, 2018)

Maxx134 said:


> The issue is there are more than one version of the Dekoni,
> and untill I hear if any of them is as good or better than stock,
> I would not recommend, as initial reports to me we not positive.
> so unless anyone wants to try and take the chance on the  ferensrated ( one with the perforated holes may be good) version thats up to them.
> It still a bit cheaper than stock pads



The Chinese knockoffs of the stock pads on aliexpress & the likes are pretty cheap. I think they go for around $30-ish.

There is no cheaper knockoff headband replacement though, so buying the official Sennheiser replacement is the only option.


----------



## c0rp1

Thenewguy007 said:


> The Chinese knockoffs of the stock pads on aliexpress & the likes are pretty cheap. I think they go for around $30-ish.
> 
> There is no cheaper knockoff headband replacement though, so buying the official Sennheiser replacement is the only option.



Will there be any difference in sound quality? There are pads on aliexpress for $10 even ... (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1Pa...iser-HD800-HD800S-Headphones/32812858503.html)


----------



## joespride

I found a seller on ebay offering Sennheiser official pads and headband I do think if I spend the $$$ I would like to stay stock in those areas. If memory serves there is a cheap mod that sets inside the cup I did years ago on my first hd800 I recall liking the results

The 10.00 pads mentioned state 19 to 39 days shipping and seller guarantees 60 days max.........................while I appreciate the information I dont like dealing with people like that


----------



## c0rp1

And is there something specific that I should look for when buying an used HD800 pair? Would a test through an AMP be enough?


----------



## bearFNF

joespride said:


> I found a seller on ebay offering Sennheiser official pads and headband I do think if I spend the $$$ I would like to stay stock in those areas. If memory serves there is a cheap mod that sets inside the cup I did years ago on my first hd800 I recall liking the results
> 
> The 10.00 pads mentioned state 19 to 39 days shipping and seller guarantees 60 days max.........................while I appreciate the information I dont like dealing with people like that



You mighht look into the SDR mod.


----------



## baiyy1986

Just purchase a Dekoni Elite Velour pad because velour still looks the perfect match with HD800,  Sheepskin looks better with wood in my opinion.  
Do you guys have any suggestion of change the headband?


----------



## leng jai

Anyone else's stock cable start fraying after 2 years? Both sides of mine did right under the connectors and of course it was a few months after the warranty expired.


----------



## Rayzilla

leng jai said:


> Anyone else's stock cable start fraying after 2 years? Both sides of mine did right under the connectors and of course it was a few months after the warranty expired.


Not fraying but on the rubber part that is between the connectors to the HP and the cable. It starts to Crack open and expose the wiring. I'm looking for a cheap replacement now that these are no longer my main HP .


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

paradoxper said:


> Then let me say, buy the Dekoni Elite Sheepskin.





bearFNF said:


> You mighht look into the SDR mod.



I have both of these on my HD800 and couldn't be happier


----------



## JamieMcC

Anyone using the headphone out of the Oppo UDP-205 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray Player with their hd800's and have any thought on the combo they wouldn't mind sharing?
Cheers


----------



## Makiah S

... So I'm in my like 10th hour with the Silver Cable on my SDR'd HD 800

Guys I don't think I can go back to copper... I feel like I've been deaf for 10 years and all of a sudden a veil's been lifted! I'm JUST listening with my Vali 1/EL Dac and there's textures in Miles Davis So What I've not noticed before, textures not in the mids or bass but in the high hats! An it's not a "brightness" I've heard bright cans tizz quite excessively... my HE 4 being one of them, no rather there's a edge a metal shimmer that's distinct with each hit. An I can't say I've noticed it before... 

On one hand I'm happy, on the other I'm scared to listen to anything else >.>


----------



## c0rp1

Mshenay said:


> ... So I'm in my like 10th hour with the Silver Cable on my SDR'd HD 800
> 
> Guys I don't think I can go back to copper... I feel like I've been deaf for 10 years and all of a sudden a veil's been lifted! I'm JUST listening with my Vali 1/EL Dac and there's textures in Miles Davis So What I've not noticed before, textures not in the mids or bass but in the high hats! An it's not a "brightness" I've heard bright cans tizz quite excessively... my HE 4 being one of them, no rather there's a edge a metal shimmer that's distinct with each hit. An I can't say I've noticed it before...
> 
> On one hand I'm happy, on the other I'm scared to listen to anything else >.>


Link to the cable?


----------



## joespride

Mshenay said:


> ... So I'm in my like 10th hour with the Silver Cable on my SDR'd HD 800
> 
> Guys I don't think I can go back to copper... I feel like I've been deaf for 10 years and all of a sudden a veil's been lifted! I'm JUST listening with my Vali 1/EL Dac and there's textures in Miles Davis So What I've not noticed before, textures not in the mids or bass but in the high hats! An it's not a "brightness" I've heard bright cans tizz quite excessively... my HE 4 being one of them, no rather there's a edge a metal shimmer that's distinct with each hit. An I can't say I've noticed it before...
> 
> On one hand I'm happy, on the other I'm scared to listen to anything else >.>



Come on be a man, jump right in with both feet Damn the consequences.........................................


----------



## Makiah S (Feb 4, 2018)

joespride said:


> Come on be a man, jump right in with both feet Damn the consequences.........................................



Haha I think I'm going to do just that, grab silver for my LCD 2/Eikon and enjoy!



c0rp1 said:


> Link to the cable?



@teds headfood built it for me! Pic is a few posts above


----------



## joespride

I love living vicariously through others wallets


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I dropped HD800 yesterday and an ear pad fell off. Took *** forever to get it back on, and a piece of something fell off. No idea what, though, as I couldn't see an easily identifiable piece missing from anywhere.


----------



## FLTWS

Half-Time. I think there are a couple of tiny springs that have to do with the ear cups being able to adjust (rotate a bit) to the front and rear around the ear and on the head.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

FLTWS said:


> Half-Time. I think there are a couple of tiny springs that have to do with the ear cups being able to adjust (rotate a bit) to the front and rear around the ear and on the head.


You’re funny! I picked up the headfi during half time too lol. 

If you watch a video on YouTube about the DuPont mod you can see all the parts. Maybe that could help


----------



## baiyy1986

Got the Dekoni Velour finally, USPS almost lost my package again.... Third time this year...
Looks a little cheap than I thought, but still looks match to the silver.
Sound wise I do hear some difference, maybe because of inside material of the pads a little dense, so the sound became muffled, the good thing is treble also lower a little.
It also leaks some of the sounds, because the material
Comfort wise it is good, overall these are very nice pads, not surprisingly good but still happy about it, maybe try hybrid nex time.


----------



## leng jai (Feb 7, 2018)

Hybrid pads just came in. Installation was super easy, nice little box it comes in too. They shipped 10 days early and got to Australia within a week, good job Massdrop.


----------



## r343

How much better is superdupont or anax mod than just using equalizer and dropping 6khz lets say -4.5db?


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

leng jai said:


> Hybrid pads just came in. Installation was super easy, nice little box it comes in too. They shipped 10 days early and got to Australia within a week, good job Massdrop.



Impressions?


----------



## 336881

r343 said:


> How much better is superdupont or anax mod than just using equalizer and dropping 6khz lets say -4.5db?



The schiit loki mini is a game changer. It has a 8khz band that helps out allot imo. The loki mini is not my Sony se-p900 but at one fifteenth the price it is really good and punches well above its price point. There are only 2 other eq's I'm worried about, as far as the se-p900 is concerned, as far as the best and they are uber rare. That would be the Levinson Cello and Fairchild 627. Really the only 3 totl audiophile eq's made imo. Accuphase and Technics made a couple eq's but they were much better off in a studio than at home.


----------



## joespride

Running flac files through J-River they offer a couple EQ options. I had a great EQ Setting with my first HD800 but have since lost the particulars,  Anyway the EQ took care of any perceived issues without mods.  I dont find any objectionable freq. in my setup.  Red wine Bellina, Ampsandsound Kenzie, HD800, PC with Jriver = Bliss


----------



## leng jai

CoLdAsSauLt said:


> Impressions?



Give me a few days mate.


----------



## leng jai

Here's a pic of them, way thicker than stock pads.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I forgot that HD800 could look that good. I don't baby mine at all. It's not subtle.


----------



## givin2u

leng jai said:


> Here's a pic of them, way thicker than stock pads.


----------



## givin2u

Hello l just joined a few minutes ago and still trying to find my way around l notice you have the hd800 and l would like to know if they can be driven by the pro-ject SD2 prebox digital headphone amp. I ordered one and just trying to get someone's input. Thanks


----------



## givin2u

I know my post says l joined in 2013 but l have not used this forum since.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Pro tip: if you have more to say on a given post, edit it rather than posting repeatedly in a single thread. Thanks.


----------



## givin2u

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Pro tip: if you have more to say on a given post, edit it rather than posting repeatedly in a single thread. Thanks.


Well l guest l made a glitch but you didn't. Nothing regarding the post. CRW


----------



## Moochibond

If you have not already, you may like to try asking here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/pro-ject-pre-box-s2-digital-impression-thread.858188/page-10


----------



## givin2u

Very helpful thank you. I still don't quite understand this site. I will figure it out.
Thanks again.


----------



## OldSkool

For those of you who have the Dekoni pads...are they easier to put on than the Senn replacement pads? My original pads are worn down and I have struggled with the Senn replacements and finally just gave up. They were about $80 on Amazon, so pretty sure they are authentic. 

Any issues attaching the Dekoni elite velours?


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

OldSkool said:


> For those of you who have the Dekoni pads...are they easier to put on than the Senn replacement pads? My original pads are worn down and I have struggled with the Senn replacements and finally just gave up. They were about $80 on Amazon, so pretty sure they are authentic.
> 
> Any issues attaching the Dekoni elite velours?



Never had an issue at all. Also thought that they are easier to put on than the original pad.


----------



## paradoxper

JC, did you watch Mike's video? It may help you.


----------



## bearFNF (Feb 12, 2018)

OldSkool said:


> For those of you who have the Dekoni pads...are they easier to put on than the Senn replacement pads? My original pads are worn down and I have struggled with the Senn replacements and finally just gave up. They were about $80 on Amazon, so pretty sure they are authentic.
> 
> Any issues attaching the Dekoni elite velours?


To me, the Dekoni pads are way easier to put  on than replacements from Senn. No fighting with the insert and unformed rim of the new Senn pads. Just snap the Dekoni I on, no fuss.


----------



## OldSkool

paradoxper said:


> JC, did you watch Mike's video? It may help you.



Hey Bro, how are ya? 

Yes, watched that video a while back, still struggling. The pads sorta snap in but won't stay attached inside the cups. 

I do have the Anax2 mod with the shelfliner. Think maybe that's the prob?


----------



## paradoxper

Good. Nice to see you kicking around, man.

Did you use force? The stock pads are a little difficult compared to Dekoni's but should completely snap into place.


----------



## leng jai

They are incredibly easy to put on, it's practically plug and play.


----------



## JamieMcC (Feb 12, 2018)

leng jai said:


> Anyone else's stock cable start fraying after 2 years? Both sides of mine did right under the connectors and of course it was a few months after the warranty expired.



Strangely enough yes I notice one side of mine had gone a couple of days ago to be honest I thought I must have caught it and damaged it but today I noticed the other side had gone as well the rubber covered section after the Y splitter seems to have perished and become very fragile. Mine are roughly two years old as well. I will be looking for a new cable and will probably the damaged cable just below the Y splitter and make a extension cable out of it.


----------



## Makiah S

Figured I'd share this with you guys hopefully you'll get a kick out of it 

So I had a 16oz beer tonight, just PBR [my wife loves it so I gave up micro brews to share... PBR with her, now I got to her to start eating Medium Rare steak in exchange so it was a fair trade]

Non the less, I've got a GORGEOUS and I mean an absolutely pristine new 1940's Sylvania 12SLGT in my recently modded SET amp... which I totally forgot to share with you guys


 

I went with AuriCap XOs and implimented a bypass cap as well as upgrading. I also swapped in some Audio Note K's

Non the less re capping aside, what I love about the HD 800 from the amp after the mods was the increased clarity and tactility! An to further that I bought a new 100/100% matched 1940's Sylvania Octal, now the 1940 Octal Family of  Sylvania's are my favorite for the spacious clear presentation and there notirous lack of bass [as I'm really sensitive to humpiness] so texture, clarity and precision with a touch of tube warmth are how they sound. Now upon first listening to my new tube... the staging wasn't impressive so I asked my vendor were he got it from and he recounted he found them literally NIB in a warehouse. He sold all the 6sn7s and forgot he had 12 sn7s, so again this thing is PRISTINE the silk screening is immaculate and there's no deposit on the top and there's even the little Anchor on the JAN-CHS model, so again it measured 100/100% and might very well be truly new old stock as opposed to "gently used" old stock 

Non the less, the lack of staging got me curious that maybe I need to burn it in, so I gently cleaned it with a LITTLE deoxit and then conditioned it with a LITTLE deoxit gold, then left it for like 10 hours to burn in [I'm also burning in the Cascade so 2 birds one stone] non the less my night is almost over and I figured I'd give it a new listen, an even 16 oz of beer in [and I'm a real light weight] I noticed it staged a little better... likely form having the contacts cleaned and conditioned than from the burn in, non the less everything was great but there was NO TACTILITY... so picture me listening to dozens of songs, Hotel California, Miles Davis so What, Sweet Georgia Brown and others just TRYING TO FEEL SOMETHING... now pushing up to like 95 dB peaks I can actually feel the BASS in Sweet Geogra brown gently shake the ePads/headband but still no mid range tactility... I'm still missing the percussiveness of piano's and the texture of strings... and after an hour of listening... I remember I'm slightly tipsy! SO here I am freaking out thinking somethings gone TERRIBLY WRONG, blaring musical stupidly loud only to forget... I'm tipsy

now thankfully, I didn't listen at 95 peaks to long, I did bring it back down, but all in all it's been a fun night of experimenting lol hopefully you guys can enjoy your music more with a little alcohol, but I have learned that I cannot! Sadly even a little 4% ABV beer is enough to ruin my night of listening lol


----------



## joespride

Nice looking build on the amp.............Insomnia gets me almost nightly my hd800's sound great My new red wine bellina has me wondering, I think its time to rotate the modded havanna back in and relegate the Bellina to speaker duty..............The Hd800 reveal every failure which is aggravating at times,


----------



## yates7592

paradoxper said:


> JC, did you watch Mike's video? It may help you.




Thanks for the link. Looking at my new Dekoni Elite Sheepskin pads (which I am going to fit later), and on these here is a fine mesh material all around the inside of the pad. But on the original HD800 pads there is not, it is just hollow, as far as I can tell. Is this fine mesh material on the Dekoni pads supposed to be in lieu of the dust cover, or as well as? (I did intend just to leave the original dust cover in to be honest).


----------



## leng jai

yates7592 said:


> Thanks for the link. Looking at my new Dekoni Elite Sheepskin pads (which I am going to fit later), and on these here is a fine mesh material all around the inside of the pad. But on the original HD800 pads there is not, it is just hollow, as far as I can tell. Is this fine mesh material on the Dekoni pads supposed to be in lieu of the dust cover, or as well as? (I did intend just to leave the original dust cover in to be honest).



Definitely don't think you're meant to leave the stock cover on, would probably muffle the sound.


----------



## paradoxper

yates7592 said:


> Thanks for the link. Looking at my new Dekoni Elite Sheepskin pads (which I am going to fit later), and on these here is a fine mesh material all around the inside of the pad. But on the original HD800 pads there is not, it is just hollow, as far as I can tell. Is this fine mesh material on the Dekoni pads supposed to be in lieu of the dust cover, or as well as? (I did intend just to leave the original dust cover in to be honest).


That's how I rock 'em -- without the Sennheiser dust cover.


----------



## Makiah S (Feb 14, 2018)

friendly reminder guys to remember to keep your ears clean. I started listening again tonight and notice'd it wasn't as tactile as what I like/used to. So I did my weekly ear cleaning got rid of a bunch of gunk and low and behold the tactility returned!

Now with a set of clean ears time for some relevant conversations

Focal Clear VS HD 800 SDR

For this review/comparison I'm not using either stock cable! As luck would have it my beautiful Custom OCC Copper Cable I use with my ATH ESW10 [my reference portable closed back] actually works with the Clear! YAY, that's a nice cable mind you

An of course on my HD 800 it's full silver baby

Non the less, I volume matched and adjust the fit/seal of each with David Chesky's 4 Surround Voices, then gave this track a listen



In short the;

HD 800:

Had a more open and cohesive presentation
Cleaner more defined bass
Has a slight emphasis on decay/release/sustain so it resolved longer & more vividly
better detail on the vibrato/sustain & release of both horns and paino

A more percussive presentation to the piano
Kind of Open/spacious
Focal Clear:

Bass still isn't linear enough for me but what ever
Had a slight focus on attack
with a slight emphasis/sweetness on the mid range
Better detail on the leading edge of the horns
more discernible on lips/mouth/switch action
Not as spacious but just as airy

Harder less resolved piano and some how not as percussive?
Presence is still not on par with HD 800

more intimate & energetic & a little less cohesive
the high hats that shift around above you aren't as cohesive, they jump around a little more

Now both were equally dynamic, and both had excellent micro resolve/transient, yea I will admit the Focal Clear has that... uniquely Focal Mid-Range it's some how thicker/sweeter than the HD 800 with slightly better clarity or discernment between the two horns, so while it's noticeably more intimate it's just as airy, but what it gains in transient relating to the attack or leading edge of each note... it loses on transients relating to the release/sustain/decay of those notes

So where I think the Focal Clear will really beat the HD 800 is on Metal... it's ALMOST there for me but... sometimes it's just not enough... I think the slightly more intimate/animated and just uniquely Focal mid range will be the dynamic presentation of metal to compete with the LCD 2...

And I stand corrected... it sounds congested and really SHRILL up top, yea it's a LOT heavier on the bottom end but... it's so intimate and still not quite as black as the LCD 2... either... it's not as precise as the HD 800 either :/

Switching over to Harvester of Sarrow from Metallica's best [and sadly worse mastered] album ...And Justice for All, the intro guitar sits ever so slightly to the left of center... but on the Clear it's dead center... 

And some how the HD 800 is once again more tactile... so yea... I'm going to dig around some more to figure the Clear out...


----------



## joespride

Received my Audiophilleo ap1 with PP today so my rig is complete (untill something dies that is) PC > J-River > Audiophilleo > Modded MHDT Havana with NOS WE396a tube > Ampsandsound Kenzie upgraded caps version with NOS siemens and Hytron tubes > Sennheiser HD800 Brand new / stock.

Crazy detail, Resolution, Bass impact, Clarity, Decay......................Outstanding, Now when to sleep


----------



## JamieMcC (Feb 15, 2018)

joespride said:


> Received my Audiophilleo ap1 with PP today so my rig is complete (untill something dies that is) PC > J-River > Audiophilleo > Modded MHDT Havana with NOS WE396a tube > Ampsandsound Kenzie upgraded caps version with NOS siemens and Hytron tubes > Sennheiser HD800 Brand new / stock.
> 
> Crazy detail, Resolution, Bass impact, Clarity, Decay......................Outstanding, Now when to sleep



Hi what mods have you done to your MHDT Havana I really could not get on with the one I owned a few years back.


----------



## joespride

There was a thread on here several years back discussing all the upgrades people were doing to the Havana. I bought mine modded from a member, as memory serves, it has upgraded resistors and caps, This was my 2nd havana and I can tell you the upgrades did make a difference.


----------



## OldSkool

Dekoni elite velour pads arrived yesterday, thanks to Amazon prime. Easy install, they clicked right in...unlike the Senn replacement pads I had been struggling with.

Sound is a bit less "airy" and more focused into the ear. However, that's probably to be expected with a thicker pad.

Many thanks to Paradoxper and Leng Jai for the positive comments about the Dekoni's.

Cheers, JC


----------



## leng jai

To be honest I think the Dekoni hybrids are a bit of a downgrade in comfort compared to the stock pads outside of the softer feel of the lamb skin. I'm one of the people who thought the stock HD800s were the most comfortable headphones of all time. The added thickness does add to the clamping, and they're slightly more finicky in terms of ear placement.


----------



## musickid (Feb 17, 2018)

do delkonis sheepskin pads alter the wide soundstage of hd800/s

i find stock pads uncomfortable on my ear its the material. i use alt leather on my pm1 no worries.

i love the wide soundstage of hd800/s


----------



## paradoxper

No, they improve it if nothing else.


----------



## r343 (Feb 20, 2018)

Did anybody who installed sdr mod find little bit more sibilance in S and T letters? Not sure if iam imagining it.

Removed and tested,then re-added, seems like it was imagination


----------



## Maxx134

Mshenay said:


> ... So I'm in my like 10th hour with the Silver Cable on my SDR'd HD 800


There is a specific reason why the HD800 is sensitive to a cable change.
The problem is that when I corrected this issue , it brought on another issue. Lol.
So it better to just enjoy a cable upgrade.




antimatter said:


> The schiit loki mini is a game changer. It has a 8khz band that helps out allot imo. The loki mini is not my Sony se-p900 but at one fifteenth the price it is really good and punches well above its price point. There are only 2 other eq's I'm worried about, as far as the se-p900 is concerned, as far as the best and they are uber rare. That would be the Levinson Cello and Fairchild 627. Really the only 3 totl audiophile eq's made imo. Accuphase and Technics made a couple eq's but they were much better off in a studio than at home.


I used to love EQ, but reality is that its a "bandaid" approach, instead of a cure at the source.
So I don't use EQ.



r343 said:


> Did anybody who installed sdr mod find little bit more sibilance in S and T letters? Not sure if iam imagining it.
> 
> Removed and tested,then re-added, seems like it was imagination


Figure out what music and what part of FR spectrum changed.

Personally I found the SDR mod effective for what it is intended to do, but at the cost of an overall impression of "taming" the sound.


----------



## LugBug1

So pleased there is a new HD800 thread. I stated that I sold mine the on the old one.... It was a lie. A blatant lie! Sorry. (I was about to sell them but backed out at last minute)

Anyways. I'm still the huge supporter I've always been


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

How would you compare HD800 and HE1K soundstages?


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I found the HE1000 soundstage to be larger than that of the HD800 within the first 10 sec of listening!


----------



## Thenewguy007

ruthieandjohn said:


> I found the HE1000 soundstage to be larger than that of the HD800 within the first 10 sec of listening!



It's definitely not as wide as the HD800.
When I first heard the HE1000, I initially thought the soundstage was as wide or close to wide as the HD800, but after doing more tests, the HE1000 v1 definitely had a noticeably more narrower intimate stage.

This was after extensive A/B comparisons & a few different amps & dacs & cables.


----------



## gordec (Mar 10, 2018)

bosiemoncrieff said:


> How would you compare HD800 and HE1K soundstages?



If you have a powerful amp, the HD800 will beat out the HeK in terms of soundstage width. If your amp is weak, they may sound very similar.
For everything I have tried, only the McIntosh MHA100 was able to expand the soundstage of the HD800 past the HeK. Woo Audio WA8, Centrance M8 and AK380 did not.

HD800/HD800S is the most organic sounding headphone I have tried, especially the vocals. This the primary reason I kept my HD800S along with HeK v2. They each bring something special to the table, even though I usually prefer just having one pair of headphones.


----------



## Makiah S

gordec said:


> If you have a powerful amp, the HD800 will beat out the HeK in terms of soundstage width. If your amp is weak, they may sound very similar.
> For everything I have tried, only the McIntosh MHA100 was able to expand the soundstage of the HD800 past the HeK. Woo Audio WA8, Centrance M8 and AK380 did not.
> 
> HD800/HD800S is the most organic sounding headphone I have tried, especially the vocals. This the primary reason I kept my HD800S along with HeK v2. They each bring something special to the table, even though I usually prefer just having one pair of headphones.



Yeap, first time I heard the HeK I knew it was different enough to compliment my own HD 800! Certainly something I'd like to have in my collection soon enough! 



Maxx134 said:


> There is a specific reason why the HD800 is sensitive to a cable change.
> The problem is that when I corrected this issue , it brought on another issue. Lol.
> So it better to just enjoy a cable upgrade.
> 
> ...



Well the SDR mod did tame it, then silver kinda brought it back without that 6k Peak, so I'm content! I must also recommend that you guys give @Maxx134  amp mods a try! I've got an APPJ that I modded according to his recommendations and it's quite good with my HD 800 



bosiemoncrieff said:


> How would you compare HD800 and HE1K soundstages?





ruthieandjohn said:


> I found the HE1000 soundstage to be larger than that of the HD800 within the first 10 sec of listening!



Getting back to the "powerful" amp spec, the HD 800 and HeK both have a very large sound stage and each images a little differently I think. Really I'd like an HeK v2 to compliment my HD 800 and I'm content to just have my HD 800 for now. The HeK doesn't bring anything 100% better 100% of the time over the HD 800 so I imagine if I'd gotten the HeK over the HD 800 I'd still enjoy it and not be in to much want for the other. I heard the HeK out of a Dragon Inspire up at Moon Audio and it was really special! An again I hope to have it as a compliment to my HD 800. Though I'm curious if the HeK can replace my PreFazor LCD 2... that's the question


----------



## ruthieandjohn (Mar 10, 2018)

Mshenay said:


> Though I'm curious if the HeK can replace my PreFazor LCD 2... that's the question


I borrowed the pre-Fazor LCD 2.2 from @chimney189 and compared it to my HE1000.  I loved the LCD, but I preferred the HE1000, due to bass extension that was nearly as great as that of the LCD but with greater clarity (while maintaining clear transparent treble) and much larger soundstage.

The following link is where I compared the HE1000 to the HD800, with the HE1000 driven by the CEntrance HiFiM8 and the HD800 driven by Sennheiser’s own HDVD800, and concluded that the HE1000 had the larger soundstage. A later test, at the end of the linked posting, compared the HiFiM8 to HiFIMAN’s own EF-6 amp, built for their own hard-to-drive HE-6, and found that the EF-6 further  increased the size of the HE1000 soundstage.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/off...pressions-thread.767883/page-28#post-11666342

Here is one chart from that comparison, for which the headphone with a “3” in a cell means that it beat out the other two headphones on that particular acoustic feature.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm not sure how helpful the comparison is to classical music enthusiasts.


----------



## joespride

Mshenay said:


> Yeap, first time I heard the HeK I knew it was different enough to compliment my own HD 800! Certainly something I'd like to have in my collection soon enough!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Makiah S

@joespride 

Read through this thread, I was impressed! I have an amp for both my Planar's and Dynamics only thing left to do is upgrade both at some point in the future lol though I'm not sure what. Might go with a nicer Hybrid or who knows!

Let me ask what Hybrids have you guys enjoyed? I remember that @Luckbad really enjoyed his Liquid Crimson, and it certainly sounds like it might be a good way to go though have any of you had better luck running a Tube Pre into a Class A Solid State? For totl amplifiers what have you guys found to work well with both something like the HD 800 and LCD 2


----------



## JNOISE JA

Hi
please guide me

If I want to choose between the two, what happens to the hd800s?
Because I'm really confused
Some say i choose v280.
But some others say i choose m9.
and RS 08


----------



## cirodts

Hi, I'm going to buy the hd800, if I simply with an AR M2 with integrated amplifier in class A I have excellent results?


----------



## joespride

Well the Havana has finally left the system after 2 plus years it is now for sale.  The red wine Bellina bumped it out of its prestigious space. The HD800 tells no lies and they tell me the Bellina is a little quieter in my current set up. Micro dynamics are more noticeable / forward.  If I am to have the HD800 I must attempt to pull out its strengths


----------



## pretzel06

Dekoni Premium Ear Pads for Sennheiser HD 800 up in massdrop if anyone wants


----------



## JamieMcC

Mshenay said:


> @joespride
> 
> Read through this thread, I was impressed! I have an amp for both my Planar's and Dynamics only thing left to do is upgrade both at some point in the future lol though I'm not sure what. Might go with a nicer Hybrid or who knows!
> 
> Let me ask what Hybrids have you guys enjoyed? I remember that @Luckbad really enjoyed his Liquid Crimson, and it certainly sounds like it might be a good way to go though have any of you had better luck running a Tube Pre into a Class A Solid State? For totl amplifiers what have you guys found to work well with both something like the HD 800 and LCD 2



Hi I have had very good results running a tube pre into class A solid state power amps and have used that combo with great success with my HE-6
Have a look at the Bottlehead Sex tube amp while its not a TOTL amp for the money it is seriously good and it works very with both the HD800 and LCD 2

https://bottlehead.com/product/single-ended-experimenters-kit-3-for-headphones-sensitive-speakers/

Review and comparisons here

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bot...-comparison-thread-crack-sex-mainline.683012/


----------



## Makiah S

JamieMcC said:


> Hi I have had very good results running a tube pre into class A solid state power amps and have used that combo with great success with my HE-6
> Have a look at the Bottlehead Sex tube amp while its not a TOTL amp for the money it is seriously good and it works very with both the HD800 and LCD 2
> 
> https://bottlehead.com/product/single-ended-experimenters-kit-3-for-headphones-sensitive-speakers/
> ...




I might give it a shot! I know a builder, so I wouldn't have much trouble getting one put together.


----------



## JNOISE JA

please guide me

If I want to choose between the two, what happens to the hd800s?
Because I'm really confused
Some say i choose v280.
But some others say i choose m9.
and RS 08


----------



## Thenewguy007

JNOISE JA said:


> please guide me
> 
> If I want to choose between the two, what happens to the hd800s?
> Because I'm really confused
> ...



Are you talking about the Violectric v280 & Audio-GD Master 9?

I would think the Master 9 would be a better choice. The V280 is a step below the V281, which is what would really compete with the Master 9.

Not sure what the RS 08 is?


----------



## joespride

Recently set up vinyl playback using a Kenwood KD550, Shure V15/3 Cart,  Schiit Mani, Schiit SYS, Cleaning Vinyl Via VPI16.5, Amp is the ampsandsound Kenzie improved ...............And I must say it sounds damn nice, I do think the cartridge needs tweaking I am awaiting a geo disc for alignment, and a digital scale for tracking force. I may keep an eye out for a better tonearm.......Our work is never done


----------



## Dababy

Anyone have any impressions on how the Dekoni Fenestrated sheepskin pads sound on the HD800?


----------



## joespride

Have to change my sig again, just inserted an Electrocompanient ECD-1 Dac and the HD800 sounding Fine


----------



## W4lt (Mar 27, 2018)

good evening ladies and gents.
since a few week i'm a proud owner of a second hand hd800. the price was very good, the condition of the cans in terms of scratches not so much. So i did a paint job by myself and installed the sdr mod. the serial number is 38XXX. It was a bit risky, because i never heard the hd800 by myself. But i love this cans. My imagination of the hd800 was: analytical with a bit lack of bass (nothing you could not control with mods or eq).... when i first listen them with the lyr 2 with LISST tubes my opinion was: analytical:yes . lack of bass: not for me. I like how the hd 800 reproduces the low frequencies! Maybe i will remove the sdrmod. not sure yet.Here a picture:


----------



## joespride

Great Looking cans.............................From many of the reviews I too had the impression that HD800 was analytical, dry, bright and lacking in bass. Soon as I heard my first pair I knew the reviews were distorted at best. The HD800 is a superb can in all aspects of the sound spectrum IMHO.........


----------



## DavidA

@W4lt, nice paint job


----------



## johnjen

Dababy said:


> Anyone have any impressions on how the Dekoni Fenestrated sheepskin pads sound on the HD800?


I just received a pair of these and installed them yesterday.

Thus far what I've noticed the most is the soundstage has receded away from 'me'.
Also the bass impact has softened a bit.
And it seems as though I'm missing something, but I'm still figur'n on that.
I need to play more (different genrés of) music and get more of a handle on the changes.

IOW the changes are subtle and most might not hear them.
And for some these changes may be desirable.

As for the question is this 'better', for me, I'll need more time to acclimatize and after that I'll switch back to stock pads, and then after that remove the 'dust shield'.
And so it goes.

JJ


----------



## bearFNF

I agree with JJ on the fenestrated sheepskin, I went back to the regular sheepskin. Did not care for the change.


----------



## johnjen

Last night I couldn't help myself and swapped out the Dekoni's for the stock pads.
And immediately all those aspects I was missing became evident.

The impact of the leading edge of bass, of any percussive instrument, came back.*
The 'push back', where the soundstage receded away from me, ended.
The inner details I was missing, returned.

I figure they need to reduce the pad thickness by at least 1/2, perhaps even more.
They are, by my evaluation, over dampening the initial leading edge of fast transients and the small signals that we hear as spatial cues.

I will say that they are comfortable and a slight bit warmer (as in temperature) inside the ear cup.
And I can see where some might like these 'softening' effects.

*And keep in mind my system is setup to bring out the bass, all the way down to ≈10Hz

But for me, I'll stick with stock pads.

JJ


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

How often do people change the stock pads on their HD800? I got mine in the summer of 2015, and they're starting to show signs of wear. My ears are starting to touch the interior lining.


----------



## joespride

leave the pads alone and pin your ears back   Seriously I have no idea how long the pads last but I have new OEM pads and headband on standby


----------



## johnjen

I usually get ≈ 2 years of heavy, as in everyday, use out of a set of pads, and change out the headband every 2 earpad changes.

JJ


----------



## pietcux

johnjen said:


> I usually get ≈ 2 years of heavy, as in everyday, use out of a set of pads, and change out the headband every 2 earpad changes.
> 
> JJ


I have a used HD800 incoming. 5 years old they are. The seller states the pads are still intact, lets see.
I plan to modify the stock cable to XLR balanced for my HDVA 600 amp. Does anyone know, if the wiring is still balanced between the splitter and the plug? The HD650 stock cables are, they were easy to modify.


----------



## johnjen

Yes the stock cable has 4 wires for an easy balanced conversion.

JJ


----------



## Makiah S

Gave Jazz in the new Harmonic another listen tonight, happy to say I noticed some textures/transiets I hadn't before! Love that the HD 800 is still impressing me day after day!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser...rentrq:a154ff0b1620a884e1c611f7fffcc3c3|iid:1

Not a bad offer if anyone needs an amp for HD800, though I imagine Lyr Multibit wold be a better use of the money.


----------



## PinkyPowers

Listening to some Best of Depeche Mode. NFB-28>Balanced>HD800 Dekoni sheepskin.

I don't often grab for the HD800. I usually go for the LCD-2. But goddamn, these do sound great when I do choose this path. So spacious, relaxed, and resolving.


----------



## pietcux

bosiemoncrieff said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser-HDVA600-Analog-Headphone-Amplifier-505589/302685572353?_trkparms=aid=777001&algo=DISCO.FEED&ao=1&asc=51025&meid=a7d4e695abb547718a0dc381e6d4471a&pid=100880&rk=1&rkt=1&&itm=302685572353&_trksid=p2481888.c100880.m5132&_trkparms=pageci:1bb330d4-3a90-11e8-847c-74dbd1809bac|parentrq:a154ff0b1620a884e1c611f7fffcc3c3|iid:1
> 
> Not a bad offer if anyone needs an amp for HD800, though I imagine Lyr Multibit wold be a better use of the money.


The HDVA 600 is an amp that is mostly underrated. Powerful, noiseless and neutral. For the price the amp is a steal. You might want to get it and rethink your words. Got it not too long ago and the HD800 today. Both used for a good price.If I was you, I'd buy it.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I only say that because of the included multibit DAC. I listened to the HDVD at Sennheiser SF and the DAC made my ears bleed.


----------



## joespride

I found the Bimby very fatiguing with HD800, I dare say it will be HIGHLY dependent on listeners preference.............


----------



## pietcux

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I only say that because of the included multibit DAC. I listened to the HDVD at Sennheiser SF and the DAC made my ears bleed.


I run the HDVD 600 from my Xonar STX sound cards line out. The card has a TI PCM1792A dac. Delta Sigma for sure. To me it sounds fantastic. The same goes for my Sony WM1A DAP. It sounds just right to me.


----------



## Yviena

Hmmm i recently ripped out the thin dust filter from my fenestrated sheepskin pads and i believe i hear more detail now that the the drivers are unobstructed to my ears. 

I will probably purchase the elite sheepskin pads in some weeks to check out how they sound, I'm unsure if i will rip out the filter on the elite sheepskin too, though i know i liked the stock hd800 unobstructed without the dust covers.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Are all the cool kids switching away from the stock pads? How much easier or harder to install are the Dekoni pads than stock?


----------



## bearFNF

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Are all the cool kids switching away from the stock pads? How much easier or harder to install are the Dekoni pads than stock?


Stock pads were a huge pita, Dekoni pads just clicked in place with no issues for me. YMMV


----------



## Thenewguy007

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Are all the cool kids switching away from the stock pads? How much easier or harder to install are the Dekoni pads than stock?



Installing the Dekoni pads is insanely easy. they just snap in & are million times easier to put on that the stock ones.

Getting them off is a little harder. They give you a small prying tool & you have to pry one side off & then twist it off.


----------



## JamieMcC

Been very pleasantly surprised at the headphone out performance of the OPPO 205 with my HD800.


----------



## Hifihedgehog (Apr 10, 2018)

I have been proudly owning the HD 800 for several months now and wanted to share an important observation I made when reinserting the dust cover after doing a cleaning. Correct me if I am wrong, but do not replace the dust cover into the earpiece without making sure to slide the entire circumference of the dust cover into the lip of the clear plastic film behind the ear pad. Misleadingly, both InnerFidelity and Hi-Fi Insider in their various videos on YouTube replace the dust covers stuffing them back in and fitting the edges of the covers behind the cushions. I tried both ways for myself to see if it makes a difference and the wrong way sounds confused and lacking in detail compared to stock.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Hifihedgehog said:


> I have been proudly owning the HD 800 for several months now and wanted to share an important observation I made when reinserting the dust cover after doing a cleaning. Correct me if I am wrong, but do not replace the dust cover into the earpiece without making sure to slide the entire circumference of the dust cover into the lip of the clear plastic film behind the ear pad. Misleadingly, both InnerFidelity and Hi-Fi Insider in their various videos on YouTube replace the dust covers stuffing them back in and fitting the edges of the covers behind the cushions. I tried both ways for myself to see if it makes a difference and the wrong way sounds confused and lacking in detail compared to stock.



Aren't the earpads sealed flush? How did you stuff them in? Seems like it would be hard to do?


----------



## Hifihedgehog (Apr 10, 2018)

Thenewguy007 said:


> Aren't the earpads sealed flush? How did you stuff them in? Seems like it would be hard to do?


It is very easy to just place the edges of the dust cover over the black plastic that is underneath the cushion by pushing that dust cover in quickly. This is wrong. The edge of the dust cover needs to be pushed carefully beyond that point, so that its entire circumference or edge is carefully slid within the lip of the clear plastic film underneath the ear pad. This way, if you were to remove the ear pad unit, the dust cover should come off with it. Additionally, this fits the dust cover far tighter and more snuggly against the ear pad unit so that the dust cover has no means of vibrating or blocking the sound. I presume the reason the HD 800’s sounded more confused and undetailed to me when inserted improperly is the dust cover’s mesh material is constricted and less porous, lending to it blocking more of the sound, and the dust cover as a whole is loose and more apt to jostle around within the earpiece, lending to unnecessary vibrations and added distortion.


----------



## Whitigir

I find that 1Z can drive 800s out of balanced 4.4mm.  Not at best, but it is acceptable.  Surprisingly for a portable player and especially a Walkman

Though, where is the sub-bass ? Lol ?


----------



## csl67

Do all HD800 come with USB drive that contains the measurements? My friend's 49xxx serial had it but my 46xxx serial didn't. We bought from different dealers. Is this normal?


----------



## bearFNF

I had to request my chart from Sennheiser. This is the first time I ever heard of them coming with a drive loaded with measurements. Use caution when accessing it... 



csl67 said:


> Do all HD800 come with USB drive that contains the measurements? My friend's 49xxx serial had it but my 46xxx serial didn't. We bought from different dealers. Is this normal?


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

I ripped off my Dekoni sheepskin dust cover and use the stock HD800 instead. Everything seems so clear, more detail and deeper soundstage. I wonder what have I missed all this time.


----------



## csl67

bearFNF said:


> I had to request my chart from Sennheiser. This is the first time I ever heard of them coming with a drive loaded with measurements. Use caution when accessing it...


It seems like a newer production thing. I looked up a few unboxing videos to sate my nervosa and it seems like nobody else had them.


----------



## Catharus

How I got my HD800s

I’m a happy camper at the moment. My new HD800s sit on my head most all day while working and then when relaxing at night. I discover more details in favorite songs and sound is natural enough for me to be content without speakers.

In case it is helpful to anyone else stumbling into the world of choosing a headphone in this category, here is my journey that ended with the HD800s. The problem to solve: Allow me to listen to binaural nature soundscapes and baroque music for a full workday in a small room (11x9 ft). But also listen to varied mainstream music in the other end of that same room.

*TL;DR;* Visit a dealer, compare models for comfort and how you like the sound of a complete system. Please buy from this dealer so we all have dealers in the future.

I went from Shure SE-535 and Sennheiser HD595 to Hifiman HE400S. This was an unauditioned buy just based on reviews like on Innerfidelity. I appreciated the differences compared to what I had before but a few months later I still felt the sound was blurred. That my wife thought I looked like a space alien didn’t help. I ran the HE400S from my iPhone and that simplicity was part of the appeal. Still I wanted to try what an amplifier would do. Off to a hifi store I went. Yes, my HE400S sounded somewhat better out of a Marantz HD-DAC1. But the store also had the full Focal line up. In short, I left the store thinking I needed to upgrade to Clear or Utopia. The appeal was still the ability to get decent sound without an amplifier.

Months went by reading professional reviews, impressions on head-fi, and checking prices. My head was spinning and I learned nothing conclusive. It was also surprisingly hard to find a store where I could compare headphones of this category. It was actually easier to find a store to audition speaker setups (Hegel, Rogue Audio, Splendor, Harbeth) but the prices ended up being too steep. Plus, I wasn’t convinced this would work well for my two listening positions in my small room. Finally the stars aligned and I could visit a store in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania: Music to My Ear. I checked out YouTube videos showing the selection in the store and started chatting with @MTMECraig who works in that store.

The day arrived and walking into such a nice music store was wonderful. Craig and Kerry made me feel welcome and let me calmly listen as long as I needed while offering me guidance. Here’s what I ended up listening to:

Mr Speakers Ether Flow Open
Noisy leather pads against my glasses. Detailed and full sound but clearly the ‘close’ sound of headphones.

Mr Speakers Aeon Flow Open
Leather pads start squeaking as they warm up. Sound is similar to Ether Flow. Cool design. Light weight.

Focal Clear
Pads were silent with my glasses but the pressure on the crown of my head was new. Why hadn’t I noticed that the first time I tried them? Really painful. Sound is intense and the soundstage tight.

Sennheiser HD800
What a relief! Finally a pair of headphones I felt were worth spending money on. Comfortable and no squeaking against my glasses. I can finally focus on listening. They are detailed and natural but with the  occasional treble squeaks using an Elemental Watson tube amplifier. Switching to a Questyle CMA400i the treble spikes get to painful levels. Listening to Jean C Roche’s recording of a Musician Wren makes me cringe and take the headphones off. When playing the same track through a Lehmann Audio amplifier and the CMA400i as a DAC only helps quiet down the treble. This gives me the confidence to move forward with these headphones after all. At some point I listened to them through a Rogue Audio RH5 which was enjoyable but when I heard the price that was not worth pursuing. I had read about how the soundstage would be large and even unnatural. I feel the opposite, it is just natural.

BeyerDynamic DT990 (comfort test only)
I wished there were BeyerDynamic T1s to audition but no luck today. I’m told they would be less detailed and the soundstage would be smaller than the HD800s anyway. Just for the heck of it, I try on a pair of DT990s. The comfort is great. Feathery. Possibly better than HD800.

Focal Utopia
Remembering how blown away I had been the first time I heard them, I had to try them again and compare to the HD800. The main downside during the first audition was the extreme weight of the stock cable. The weight is now ok with Nordost replacement cables but the headband still quickly gives me a headache due to pressure on the crown of my head. Sound placement is lovely but soundstage is smaller.


Several hours later, I left Music to My Ear with a pair of HD800 on order and certainty that I had found the right headphones for me. But no amplifier. The options I liked were out of my budget. But I still had a good idea of what would work. Several weeks of eBay bidding and head-fi trawling resulted in a Violectric V181 amp and a Lake People RS 06 DAC for a manageable amount.

Thank you

Sean at ZeroFidelity for your thoughtful advice on what matters.

The Headfonia crew for consistent reviews

Tyll at Inner Fidelity for being a reference in this ocean of opinions.

@ZeosPantera for pulling me into this by being irreverent when it felt like this hobby was too exclusive for me.

@fdg and @ArthurPower at Violectric for being approachable and customer friendly.

@MTMECraig, Kerry, and Mark at Music to my Ear, Pittsburgh, PA for running an awesome music store.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Catharus said:


> How I got my HD800s
> 
> I’m a happy camper at the moment.
> 
> ...



Enjoy the gear and the music!


----------



## kylewit

I bought the HD800s, HDVA 600 amp, DacMagicPlus to play through TIDAL on my laptop. It all arrives Monday. I'm looking through appreciation threads for moral support. Here we go.


----------



## pietcux

kylewit said:


> I bought the HD800s, HDVA 600 amp, DacMagicPlus to play through TIDAL on my laptop. It all arrives Monday. I'm looking through appreciation threads for moral support. Here we go.


The HDVA 600 is great even on the unbalanced out. Great synergy with the HD800. Connotations comment on the dac though. My HDVA 600 is hooked up to the line out of my internal XONAR STX. I like what I hear very much.


----------



## treebug

I've had the HDVA 600 for 4 years now and haven't found better. Currently connected directly to a Bryston BCD-3 it sounds superb through unbalanced out. My Moon Neo 260D sounded better through the balanced connection, all dependant on the source I guess.


----------



## joespride

I finally figured out how to know if you have the right setup and synergy in that setup.  I have gone for years playing individual tracks from albums simply put because I would not like something about the rest of the tracks, something in the sound just was not right. Irritated me

I have found myself of late letting albums play through and in return hearing some great tracks that i have had for years but simply ignored

I have spent years and many thousands of dollars on gear from dozens of manufacturers to finally come upon my endgame

several years ago I had the schiit bifrost with valhalla and hd650, the sound was very good but not enough to keep me in the game, there was something very appealing though and I never lost the lust for that appeal, every amp or dac since was a letdown in that regard so the search continued
also 10 plus years ago I had an electrocompanient cd player and remember bragging how analog it sounded but I let it go as well because I was not focused on system at the time

Fast forward through those hundreds of  mentioned products and I found the synergy

I scored an electrocompanient dac (same one used in the cd players) and a MicroZOTL  (OTL AMP) amplifier those paired with HD800 have set the mark for me


----------



## kylewit

I am wondering what you guys think I should expect tomorrow when my HD800s come. I already have the HDVA600 and DacMagic Plus set up and ready to plug into the unbalanced output. 

The nicest headphones I have ever owned are the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 through the Oppo HA-2 dac/amp. I liked the dt770s better than the PM3s which I returned for lack of bass and  incompatibility with rock imo. I plan to use the dt770 pair for mobile use and bass heavy music whenever i feel the need until I upgrade to the ULTRASONE 900 pro for electronic and rap whenever Im in the mood for excitement. I plan to switch to and from the HD800/hdva600/dacmagicplus and ultrasone900/ha-2 whenever I want either perfectly clear, precise and accurate or very booming, sparkly and exciting. However I receive the 800s tomorrow and I receive the ultrasone much later. So the nicest HPs i have owned so far are still the DT770s. What kind of reaction should I expect? Should I expect to hear noises Ive never heard? a phenomenally and unusually clear sound? how should i expect to be blown out of the water if at all? im jumping from low/mid-fi to high end, what will this mean when i listen to it tomorrow?


----------



## pietcux

Did you ever listen to the HD800 or the Ultrasone PRO900? Both are quite a lot different than your DT770. It is hard to tell you what to expect. The HD800 is a fine tool to get you all the details and a very spacious soundfield. But it is open and tha bass is all there, but not prominent. The DT770 bass is loud, but not overly clean. A good step up would be the DT 1770. I had the Ultrasone long ago. Cannot recommend it at all. The treble harshness is unbearably to me. If any Ultrasone, please take the Signature Pro or Signature DJ, the latter has very good bass. For good quality bass you could also look into the Sony Z7 or Z1r. But back to the HD800 you can expect a very fine reproduction of all music genres.


----------



## kylewit

pietcux said:


> Did you ever listen to the HD800 or the Ultrasone PRO900? Both are quite a lot different than your DT770. It is hard to tell you what to expect. The HD800 is a fine tool to get you all the details and a very spacious soundfield. But it is open and tha bass is all there, but not prominent. The DT770 bass is loud, but not overly clean. A good step up would be the DT 1770. I had the Ultrasone long ago. Cannot recommend it at all. The treble harshness is unbearably to me. If any Ultrasone, please take the Signature Pro or Signature DJ, the latter has very good bass. For good quality bass you could also look into the Sony Z7 or Z1r. But back to the HD800 you can expect a very fine reproduction of all music genres.


Good thing I got a solid return policy on the Ultrasones. No I havent tried them i just heard the bass was phenomenal, mids a bit recessed, a bit of a peak without proper amp. But since I have the HA-2 I was hoping to kick the bass even more with the bass boost, liven up the mids and hopefully soften the peak. I listen to a strange mix of genres where I will want to hear a serious slam when I am just relaxing and not paying much attention or I will want to really sit down and pay close attention to every detail and I will want to hear exactly what the recording was supposed to be. I like the DT770 80s because I get a pretty decent mix of solid bass but also neutrality and detail whenever I am mobile and Im not paying particularly close attention but want to feel some bass and detail.

I would try out the DT1770s and return my ultrasones if it would retain the overall sound signature of the dt770 80s. If it has similar bass strength but more detailed bass, and more clarity in the mids and highs compared to the dt770s i would go for it. What do you think?


----------



## kylewit

Honestly I've been looking at the Sony MDR-ZR1s for a while and I'm starting to think a pair of those with my HD800s setup would be my absolute endgame. I'm really waiting around for a pair to go up at reduced price.


----------



## musickid

Swap dacmagic for a chord mojo to vastly improve the sq.


----------



## SoundBytes (Apr 23, 2018)

> I am wondering what you guys think I should expect tomorrow when my HD800s come. I already have the HDVA600 and DacMagic Plus set up and ready to plug into the unbalanced output.
> The nicest headphones I have ever owned are the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 through the Oppo HA-2 dac/amp. I liked the dt770s better than the PM3s which I returned for lack of bass and incompatibility with rock imo. I plan to use the dt770 pair for mobile use and bass heavy music whenever i feel the need until I upgrade to the ULTRASONE 900 pro for electronic and rap whenever Im in the mood for excitement. I plan to switch to and from the HD800/hdva600/dacmagicplus and ultrasone900/ha-2 whenever I want either perfectly clear, precise and accurate or very booming, sparkly and exciting. However I receive the 800s tomorrow and I receive the ultrasone much later. So the nicest HPs i have owned so far are still the DT770s. What kind of reaction should I expect? Should I expect to hear noises I've never heard? a phenomenally and unusually clear sound? how should i expect to be blown out of the water if at all? I'm jumping from low/mid-fi to high end, what will this mean when I listen to it tomorrow?



The HD800s are amazing.  You probably will first notice the clarity and analytical nature of these beasts.  When I say beasts they need power to really get the most out of them.  From reading your post, it looks like you have that well in hand.  I actually sold my HDVD800 amp and am just using the Astell & Kern SP1000 which actually does drive them.  The HD800s also need to be broken in, so out of the box, you will find that analytical presence I mentioned.  It will just come out and grab your attention before you can push through it and really start to notice that killer soundstage.  As you wear them and try different music you will notice every nuance of tonality as well as the presence of each instrument.  You will be able to hear each as if it was nearly right in front of you.  Now I listen to a lot of different music, from jazz to classical and even rock with a lot of guitar riffs and songs that are just loud.  The HD800s are going to give you more I feel on other music than rock and roll, my opinion only, many may disagree and I do not wish to debate this point, this is just my opinion. I would not have purchased these to just listen to rock and roll, again my opinion only.  Now don't get me wrong, there is a lot of rock in roll out there that does slow down or reveal more tonality to which the HD800s will shine but IMHO I believe that loud rock does not do these phones justice.  Enjoy them, play as many different types of music as you can find and see how they translate to your ear.  They are amazing, many say they may be too analytical for some people that like that warm rich musical flow but I partially disagree.  Regarding bass, if it is there in force, meaning it really envelops your ear with the music the HD800s will shine and represent that feel in the song perfectly.  If the bass is lacking in the song you will not feel it like you might with the HD700 or other phones that represent bass more.

Actually, on Tidal HiFi, I created a playlist called HD800 Bliss and added songs where I feel they really shine on these phones.  Some songs include, "Take the A Train" by Barbara Dennerlein, "Sorrow" Yvonne S Moriarty et al, "Metaphysical", "Jazzaloid", "Chrome", "Resonation" by Boris Blenn and nearly everything Boris Blenn to "Only the Lonely" by The Motels and "Time is Tight" by Booker T & The MG's should give you some flavor.  Also, anything from Sam Cooke to Candy Dulfer (Sax) to especially John Coltrane will kill on the HD800s

The big question I have after using these for the money what difference would one notice from the HD800 to going to say a Susvara or an Audeze LCD-4 or Abyss Phi? that is where I am at right now.... to the point where before I plunk down 4K-6K for a pair of phones, I would need to hear them all before deciding if I can even break away from the HD800 at all.  And when I am mobile, I went with the UE18+ Pro CIEM which is phenomenal as well both balanced and with a nice thick silver cable...just my choice for perfect clarity.


----------



## musickid

Would the delkoni leather pads have any negative impact on sennheiser's intended sound signature?


----------



## pietcux

SoundBytes said:


> The big question I have after using these for the money what difference would one notice from the HD800 to going to say a Susvara or an Audeze LCD-4 or Abyss Phi? that is where I am at right now.... to the point where before I plunk down 4K-6K for a pair of phones, I would need to hear them all before deciding if I can even break away from the HD800 at all.  And when I am mobile, I went with the UE18+ Pro CIEM which is phenomenal as well both balanced and with a nice thick silver cable...just my choice for perfect clarity.


I cannot help you on the 4k phones. I only have the observation, that most people buying those, still own the likes of HD800 and also seem to still use them after the wow effect is over. So yes you probably will be wowed, but how long?


----------



## kylewit

I am so excited to hear the HD800 for the first time today. My package arrives in the next few hours. I created playlists with hundreds of songs on Spotify and Tidal of the best recorded albums of all genres, live jazz albums, orchestra performances, binaural sessions, classic albums (paranoid, abbey road, etc.), and some techno/electronic/rap to see how those hold up. Has any one played my bloody valentine's loveless on the hd800? does it sound better? ive always heard that album and thought it was just a cloud of distortion and found it hard to keep up with what was going on.


----------



## pietcux

musickid said:


> Would the delkoni leather pads have any negative impact on sennheiser's intended sound signature?


YES


----------



## kylewit (Apr 23, 2018)

musickid said:


> Swap dacmagic for a chord mojo to vastly improve the sq.


Does chord mojo have two channel 3-pin female xlr? That is how I connect dacmagic to hdva600.
If not how does it connect to an amp for use as a dac. I have looked at chord mojo for a while, as I could use it for other HPs. I live in NYC so I think I will head to Audio46 to try it out with hd800. Thanks for recommendation!


----------



## pietcux

kylewit said:


> Does chord mojo have two channel 3-pin female xlr? That is how I connect dacmagic to hdva600.
> If not how does it connect to an amp for use as a dac. I have looked at chord mojo for a while, as I could use it for other HPs. I live in NYC so I think I will head to Audio46 to try it out with hd800. Thanks for recommendation!


I think the dacmagic is a very good solution, just checked the Cambridge offerings. I could be intersted in the dacmagic plus in silver.


----------



## musickid

I think analogue out from mojo into analogue l/r in on hdva600 not balanced but won't be beaten at this price range i feel.

What solutions are there for those that find stock pads uncomfortable. Otherwise i love hd800s soundstage. Apparently delkoni leather no good?


----------



## pietcux (Apr 23, 2018)

musickid said:


> I think analogue out from mojo into analogue l/r in on hdva600 not balanced but won't be beaten at this price range i feel.
> 
> What solutions are there for those that find stock pads uncomfortable. Otherwise i love hd800s soundstage. Apparently delkoni leather no good?


Regarding pads, they are *THE* factor to change a headphones sound. For the better or worse is up to you to decide.


----------



## paradoxper

pietcux said:


> I cannot help you on the 4k phones. I only have the observation, that most people buying those, still own the likes of HD800 and also seem to still use them after the wow effect is over. So yes you probably will be wowed, but how long?



I still feel the HD800 is the best non-stat. Regardless of price or not-so-sustained hype. 

I have come from a DIY T2/SR-009 and the Dynahi/HD800 is within "spitting" distance.


----------



## kylewit

I am currently listening to the HD800s for the first time and I have to say Daaaaamn. I was worried about the bass being weak when I put on some infected mushroom but NOPE. Its so clean and precise and gives just enough oomf to satisfy my needs!! The details on acoustic instruments is phenomenal. The comfort is perfect so far--I can barely feel them. I love the open back sound. And wow the mids!! Ozzy Osbourne sounds so real. Theres just so much room to put every little sound its crazy, nothing crammed with anything else. I LOVE THEM!!! I may be gone from head-fi for a bit. Time to relax and listen to music


----------



## bearFNF

musickid said:


> Would the delkoni leather pads have any negative impact on sennheiser's intended sound signature?


I like the sheepskin dekoni. What little change there was was not bad  as far as my opinion is concerned.  YMMV 

The hybrid and fenestrated made more of a change, so i am not using them. Search back through the thread for the reviews for more details.


----------



## yates7592

Congrats kylewit, HD800 are up there with the best. And bang for the buck at the very top. I have gone from HD800 twice, to Abyss/Headtrip, then SR009/Carbon, now on my 3rd HD800.


----------



## pietcux

yates7592 said:


> Congrats kylewit, HD800 are up there with the best. And bang for the buck at the very top. I have gone from HD800 twice, to Abyss/Headtrip, then SR009/Carbon, now on my 3rd HD800.


Lol, I am on my second pair....


----------



## Thenewguy007

yates7592 said:


> Congrats kylewit, HD800 are up there with the best. And bang for the buck at the very top. I have gone from HD800 twice, to Abyss/Headtrip, then SR009/Carbon, now on my 3rd HD800.



What benefits outside the soundstage did the HD800 have over the Abyss/Headtrip & SR009/Carbon, if any?

Were you also running on the same DAC during all that time?


----------



## 480126

Some User Said Sony 1a/z can Drive HD 800/800s! Is a Silver bal. Cable good or is a copper cable better?


----------



## kylewit

Just used the HD800s to play the Doors '68 Live at the Bowl synced to the video of that performance (muted) played on my laptop. Great experience!!


----------



## pietcux

Frida309 said:


> Some User Said Sony 1a/z can Drive HD 800/800s! Is a Silver bal. Cable good or is a copper cable better?


I use my HD800 from my WM1A with the stock cable and the HD650 6.3 to 3.5 mm adapter. Sounds great. I have a balanced Forza Noir Hybrid terminated for 4.4 mm incoming. The stock is also silver coated copper. So the sound should stay the same, which is what I want.


----------



## 480126

pietcux said:


> I use my HD800 from my WM1A with the stock cable and the HD650 6.3 to 3.5 mm adapter. Sounds great. I have a balanced Forza Noir Hybrid terminated for 4.4 mm incoming. The stock is also silver coated copper. So the sound should stay the same, which is what I want.


Danke und Grüße aus Oberbayern


----------



## SoundBytes

kylewit said:


> Just used the HD800s to play the Doors '68 Live at the Bowl synced to the video of that performance (muted) played on my laptop. Great experience!!



Excellent and interesting.  I also noticed a huge difference going to a pure silver cable and balanced 2.5 over the XLR cable.  They are the best...so I hear people saying they are on their second pair lol...what is happening, are they burning them up or something? Lol... glad to hear your enjoying them man... love the Doors...excellent choice.


----------



## 480126

Just bought a new 800s with warranty for a very good Price. Hope it will be a improvement over the Focal Elear! Will first drive the 800S with my Sony 1A maybe later with headphone amp!


----------



## Maxx134 (Apr 27, 2018)

Sorrodje said:


> ... i had the pleasure to own the HD800S and the HD800 (stock and modded) ...Considering I measured, heard and reviewed the HD800SD before Tyll , i hadn't been influenced by his own conclusion about distorsion when I wrote my review . My conclusion was I heard some small differences and mainly the very positive change in tonality thks to the tamed 6khz peak and resonnance . the only downside I heard was a slight lack of instrument separation during complex movements in orchestral music. I never heard that much warmth or lack of definition to be honest. Maybe a tad more extension ....


I appreciate your testing and viewpoints highly. (As well as your SD mod).
I gives me a great basis to look upon for comparisons..



Sorrodje said:


> _....._
> *Measurements:*
> 
> *HD800S average FR with all raw takes*
> ...



Here are mine:

HD800 to an HD800S mod:

*FR:



 
notice elevated lower spectum to bass, and gradual elevated upper spectrum, no dips... previously impossible to have without the 6k ringing..

CSD:


 
Notice decay is faster than .5ms all way down to 1k, no 6kringing like stock and even 800S

Here is a screenshot of the best fabled never released annax mod:*

*At 50db down a slight 1-2ms decay in trebles, (cleanest ever made)

Now here is mine 50db down:
 
At a deep 50db down, a .05-1ms most delay in WHOLE trebles range is proof of no ringing(!)



Distortion:


 
notice harmonics below noise floor, also unique is the linearity of the harmonics.
In this one the ambient noise was too high, so the white line (THD) reflects that.
I removed further debatable points as this post not meant for that.
Bass measurements were too skewed because of the ambient noise so I will update in future thread.
One important point to note to make,
 is that no other HD800 has ever had a linear distortion in the trebles range and below noise floor... ever..
*
This was the last HD800S Mod before I sold mine.

I have been planning to post this mod to the comunity when I have the time, which I finally have this week.

About this mod:
There was no mod to make an HD800 sound similar, but better than an 800S, so this was the goal.
This mod give you the bass without the added harmonics of the 800S.
This mod preserves the treble "air" and signature Senn trebles that other mods either kill off(rug liners & creatology foams) ..
Or neutralize (flatten or even out) with other mods,
 In order to lessen the 6k resonance.

This is the only mod that eliminates the problem without killin or neutralizing the trebles...
I had bits and pieces of this mod scattered everyhere but will compile into one thread.
This is an all unique mod comprising of nobody else tweaks, liners, and was a year long project that me and another member @ Olegausa  accomplished about over a year ago, so is about high time it gets revealed.
The measurements here are from his headphone.

Edit:
The intention with this post is not to make any drama.
Also not to make rediculous money upgrades with fancy worded websites, or hold onto secrets (there are actually) like done in past,
but to help the community to get the most out of the HD800.
The upgrades revealed will be up to the user to try.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Maxx134 said:


> This is an all unique mod comprising of nobody else tweaks, liners, and was a year long project that me and another member @ Olegausa  accomplished about over a year ago, so is about high time it gets revealed.




Can't wait!


----------



## coinmaster

I've heard the proposed mod in person. I'm not easily impressed and I was impressed. It makes the stock sound dirty and unclear by comparison. IMO the HD800 is the best headphone out there with this mod in place.


----------



## The Correlation

W4lt said:


> good evening ladies and gents.
> since a few week i'm a proud owner of a second hand hd800. the price was very good, the condition of the cans in terms of scratches not so much. So i did a paint job by myself and installed the sdr mod. the serial number is 38XXX. It was a bit risky, because i never heard the hd800 by myself. But i love this cans. My imagination of the hd800 was: analytical with a bit lack of bass (nothing you could not control with mods or eq).... when i first listen them with the lyr 2 with LISST tubes my opinion was: analytical:yes . lack of bass: not for me. I like how the hd 800 reproduces the low frequencies! Maybe i will remove the sdrmod. not sure yet.Here a picture:


That is honestly one of the nicest and most tasteful headphone repaints I've ever seen. I just bought another HD800 myself (after missing my old pair) and am thinking of painting it to give it some more sentimental value. Did you just use normal spray paint?


----------



## BobG55

yates7592 said:


> Congrats kylewit, HD800 are up there with the best. And bang for the buck at the very top. I have gone from HD800 twice, to Abyss/Headtrip, then SR009/Carbon, now on my 3rd HD800.





pietcux said:


> Lol, I am on my second pair....



I just received a used HD800, in excellent shape bought from a Canuck Audio Mart member.  This is my ... 5th ... or maybe ... 6th time  ?    I've lost count. Oh, well, different amps with the HD800 every time including this time around.  I like to consider myself a relatively well balanced, somewhat fully sane individual but my HD800 affair has me questioning that fact now.   I hesitate to say how much I enjoy it right now with the Airist Heron 5 & my Vintage Sansui AU-719 integrated amp. because I've most likely made similar statements in the past.  The only thing that's changed though is that I've decided to _keep _my other headphones this time around.  In the past I would sell some to supplement what I was buying so maybe with a better variety I'll appreciate the HD800 more when I come back to it after taking a listening break.  

They are definitely an excellent headphone though, especially with an amp capable of driving them properly.  This time around I really like the tightness and proficient sound of the bass coming from them when listening with the Sansui.  The amp's high impedance plays a factor.  

The other factor I've found that really helps me in enjoying these headphones and this hobby in general is not to think of all the money I've spent so far in the last 5-6 years.  

Congratulations Kylewit.


----------



## yates7592

6 times owner, that must be some kind of record! Are you using the phones jack or speakers out on the Sansui?


----------



## W4lt

The Correlation said:


> Did you just use normal spray paint?



Yes. spray paint, suitable for all kind of grounds (like plastic). Advises from my side (not a pro in painting): if you choose a bright color, you have to sand all the silver down from edges. for darker colors (like black  ) it's ok to just roughen up the surface with fine sandpaper. I had to do both rings twice, because the remaining silver on the edges was visible after multiple layers of paint. so i sanded first all the orange and then all the silver down, and after this it worked. 
Something i have not done: The geometry of the pieces are complex with a lot of curves. if you have the posbilty it can help to use a wire,strong engough to make a hook at the end and hang the pices in the air. With this you are able spray from all sides without touching it for turning it arround. you can also walk arround and look from different angles to control you have a consistent color gradient... if i would start again i would do this.


----------



## BobG55

yates7592 said:


> 6 times owner, that must be some kind of record! Are you using the phones jack or speakers out on the Sansui?



Phone jack.  Don't know how to use the speakers out.  Not technically savvy at all, just not in my DNA.


----------



## Maxx134 (Apr 27, 2018)

Thenewguy007 said:


> Can't wait!


I updated my post with more evidence of  having the cleanest upper spectrum.




The Correlation said:


> Did you just use normal spray paint?



the HD800 is tricky to paint becuse of the stock finish.
Get a good paint or it will not stick permanetly
I had to sand mine down to the yellow plastic to get a good bond..


It's  a big job, so try get a top paint.
This paint looked wonderful but didnt last.
I used rustoleum paint.
Not sure if the company is better now, but I would make sure it is a good fast drying type.
I ended up instead using some brushed on acrylic paint .... with a top spray clear coat sealer..


----------



## Thenewguy007

Maxx134 said:


> Not sure if the company is better now, but I would make sure it is a good fast drying type.
> I ended up instead using some brushed on laquer paint .... with a top spray cleat coat..




What was the brand name of the brushed on lacquer paint? What brush did you use? 
Painting to get a perfect finish is very difficult.


----------



## Maxx134 (Apr 27, 2018)

Thenewguy007 said:


> What was the brand name of the brushed on lacquer paint? What brush did you use?
> Painting to get a perfect finish is very difficult.


It was an Acrylic paint with about 4 layers with at least 24hrs in between.




I chose calm colors lol.
My wife was a professional at panting designer dolls at one point, so she suggested and did it.
techique was light brushing, and the choice of sprayed on sealer can cover the tiny imperfections or signs of brush strokes.

I wish they had a paint that would stick well onto the HD800 surface,
But for most you will have no choice but to sand surface with fine grit sandpaper.


----------



## 480126 (May 3, 2018)

New HD800S at home. Sounds out of the box - with SE , wait of balanced cable - much clearer with more Details as my Focal Elear. Wondering that Sony 1a can drive the HD800s very good - Volume Level 100! Now waiting for balanced cable and hope that´s a improvement!


----------



## pietcux

Frida309 said:


> New HD800S at home. Sounds out of the box - with SE , wait of balanced cable - much clearer with more Details as my Focal Elear. Wondering that Sony 1a can drive the HD800s very good - Volume Level 100! Now waiting for balanced cable and hope that´s a improvement!


 Volume 100 seems a bit high to me. I rarely go past 90 with the HD800SD single ended. Also waiting for my balanced Forza Cable.Noir Hybrid HPC.


----------



## 480126

pietcux said:


> Volume 100 seems a bit high to me. I rarely go past 90 with the HD800SD single ended. Also waiting for my balanced Forza Cable.Noir Hybrid HPC.


90 is a Little bit to quite - but 95 is good!


----------



## pietcux (May 3, 2018)

Frida309 said:


> 90 is a Little bit to quite - but 95 is good!


Is the WM1A uncapped, do you have high gain? My 90 is on high gain btw. And I prefer 75 to be honest.

From the picture I see you are not on high gain.


----------



## 480126

pietcux said:


> Is the WM1A uncapped, do you have high gain? My 90 is on high gain btw. And I prefer 75 to be honest.


Seller told me that the 1a is uncapped! Just saw that high gain is on balanced mode. If I changed it 75 is okay! Thanks


----------



## Maxx134

coinmaster said:


> I've heard the proposed mod in person. I'm not easily impressed and I was impressed. It makes the stock sound dirty and unclear by comparison. IMO the HD800 is the best headphone out there with this mod in place.


HD800"S" mod Thread is just now coming online.


----------



## PinkyPowers

My new HD800 cable.

Double Helix Cables Molecule Elite 19 Fusion. 

Enhances every one of HD800's inherent virtues. Clearer. Cleaner. Better contrast, due to a blacker background. Bass is ever so slightly boosted, thanks to the crazy-thick 18.8AWG wire.

It's spectacular.


----------



## Eggtuary

Just got a pair of HD800!  Moving up from the HD598, it's clearly a superior headphone.  

Right now, I'm playing Tidal through a Chord Mojo.  I really like the sound, but I keep thinking there must be more I can do to optimize the sound.  It sounds "in my head" more than I expected, after reading all the reviews saying that the HD800 have the most amazingly wide soundstage.  Nor do I get the sense that the sound is coming from in front of me.  Now I'm reading reviews of the Mojo that say it's fairly "intimate."

So, if I don't want to spend more than a few hundred bucks, what alternatives should I consider?  And what should I prioritize?

I saw an awesome deal on the HDVA 600 amp for just $439, but I just missed out.  I assume I should get that if the deal ever comes back?  Maybe combine with balanced cable?

Or should I look into something from Schitt?

In addition to wider soundstage, I'd like a little more "oomph" from the bass.  But the latter I could probably handle through EQ, right?

Thanks in advance for any help!


----------



## Malfunkt

Eggtuary said:


> Just got a pair of HD800!  Moving up from the HD598, it's clearly a superior headphone.
> 
> Right now, I'm playing Tidal through a Chord Mojo.  I really like the sound, but I keep thinking there must be more I can do to optimize the sound.  It sounds "in my head" more than I expected, after reading all the reviews saying that the HD800 have the most amazingly wide soundstage.  Nor do I get the sense that the sound is coming from in front of me.  Now I'm reading reviews of the Mojo that say it's fairly "intimate."



The HD800 has one of the most open sounding stages of any headphone and it is because of Sennheiser’s incredible engineering and tuning the headphone to a diffuse-field. 

However, a lot of music is engineered for stereo playback on speakers within a room space. In this case the listener will hear natural cross feed from each speaker, ie your right ear will still hear music from the left channel and vice versa. As a result an engineer can mix the music to make instruments panned dead centre or in different postions. 

Listening to the same music on headphones it can’t replicate this properly as each ear is isolated. It can make sound “hard panned” instead of more forward. 

on the other hand headphone listening can be very immersive if the tracks are binaural. Try an app called Naturespace or search for some binaural field recordings and ASMR on YouTube (not binaural beats that is something else altogether and is pseudoscience). 


Headphone listening can take a bit to adjust to.


----------



## kylewit

Eggtuary said:


> Just got a pair of HD800!  Moving up from the HD598, it's clearly a superior headphone.
> 
> Right now, I'm playing Tidal through a Chord Mojo.  I really like the sound, but I keep thinking there must be more I can do to optimize the sound.  It sounds "in my head" more than I expected, after reading all the reviews saying that the HD800 have the most amazingly wide soundstage.  Nor do I get the sense that the sound is coming from in front of me.  Now I'm reading reviews of the Mojo that say it's fairly "intimate."
> 
> ...


HDVA 600 is just an amp. You will need a dac. I've been using the HDVA 600 with DacMagic Plus playing high resolution Tidal out of my laptop for a few weeks now. I love it--clear, accurate, detailed, all-around highly excellent and worth the investment (just above 1900 total for HP+amp+dac). The hdva600 does the job in giving hd800s power, and I've found that the dac opens up soundstage. But try the 600s out in person with a dac before you decide. Then you can see if there is enough of a difference vs the chord mojo to justify the cost. Since you will need a dac, it makes sense to go somewhere that has the 600s and a dac, so you don't get into the mess of having bought the dac and 600s, decided against the change, then having to return both separately.


----------



## Eggtuary

kylewit said:


> HDVA 600 is just an amp. You will need a dac. I've been using the HDVA 600 with DacMagic Plus playing high resolution Tidal out of my laptop for a few weeks now. I love it--clear, accurate, detailed, all-around highly excellent and worth the investment (just above 1900 total for HP+amp+dac). The hdva600 does the job in giving hd800s power, and I've found that the dac opens up soundstage. But try the 600s out in person with a dac before you decide. Then you can see if there is enough of a difference vs the chord mojo to justify the cost. Since you will need a dac, it makes sense to go somewhere that has the 600s and a dac, so you don't get into the mess of having bought the dac and 600s, decided against the change, then having to return both separately.


How did you get everything for $1900?  Since I missed the $439 deal on the HDVA 600, I'm not seeing prices anywhere near that level.

I'm afraid I don't have anywhere near me to try this stuff out.  So it's trial and error, buying stuff online.


----------



## pietcux

Eggtuary said:


> How did you get everything for $1900?  Since I missed the $439 deal on the HDVA 600, I'm not seeing prices anywhere near that level.
> 
> I'm afraid I don't have anywhere near me to try this stuff out.  So it's trial and error, buying stuff online.


I got my HDVA 600 used for 600€. They are highly underrated in the market so you might jus be patient and grab the next for sale here on HeadFi.


----------



## treebug

HDVA 600 is ridiculously cheap on the market. Had mine with my HD800s about 4 years now and despite trying different amps I haven't found anything I want to replace it for.


----------



## kylewit

Eggtuary said:


> How did you get everything for $1900?  Since I missed the $439 deal on the HDVA 600, I'm not seeing prices anywhere near that level.
> 
> I'm afraid I don't have anywhere near me to try this stuff out.  So it's trial and error, buying stuff online.


The HD800s were $850 from Reverb in excellent condition. HDVA600 $800 from eBay also turned out excellent condition, and I had a good return policy just in case. DacMagic Plus I found for $280 on Reverb, very good condition. 1930 total. I was fortunate that I got everything in such great condition as I did take some risks in going used. But it paid off as everything works perfectly and looks very well taken care of. Bottom line: if you find the HDVA600 for 500-700 you probably couldn't do better for powering the HD800s at that price.


----------



## attmci

PinkyPowers said:


> My new HD800 cable.
> 
> Double Helix Cables Molecule Elite 19 Fusion.
> 
> ...



HD800 vs LCD3? I trust you. LOL


----------



## PinkyPowers

All a matter of personal preference.

My tastes favor the Audeze house sound. I listened to my LCD-2 more than my HD800. And now that I have spent a few days with the LCD-3, I can tell that will dominate my head-time just as thoroughly.

But I do very much like the HD800. It gives me things the LCD-3 cannot, like detail, clarity, and soundstage. And sometimes that's what I'm in the mood for.

But more often, I crave the smoothness, warmth, and richness of Audeze.


----------



## omniweltall

PinkyPowers said:


> All a matter of personal preference.
> 
> My tastes favor the Audeze house sound. I listened to my LCD-2 more than my HD800. And now that I have spent a few days with the LCD-3, I can tell that will dominate my head-time just as thoroughly.
> 
> ...


Try EQ-ing the HD800. Especially the sub-bass region (20Hz)


----------



## PinkyPowers

omniweltall said:


> Try EQ-ing the HD800. Especially the sub-bass region (20Hz)



Lower bass has nothing to do with warmth or smoothness, but rather rumble and impact. Upper bass to lower mids, and treble have the greatest effect on those things.


----------



## omniweltall

PinkyPowers said:


> Lower bass has nothing to do with warmth or smoothness, but rather rumble and impact. Upper bass to lower mids, and treble have the greatest effect on those things.


Apologize. Yes, it doesn't. I use the schiit loki for that 20hz. It affects quite a wide band on the bass area. It is the easiest way to warm up the hd800. 

Using a good tube amp further helps thicken the hd800.


----------



## PinkyPowers

omniweltall said:


> Apologize. Yes, it doesn't. I use the schiit loki for that 20hz. It affects quite a wide band on the bass area. It is the easiest way to warm up the hd800.
> 
> Using a good tube amp further helps thicken the hd800.



The HD800 does respond very well the EQ, I agree.


----------



## attmci

PinkyPowers said:


> All a matter of personal preference.
> 
> My tastes favor the Audeze house sound. I listened to my LCD-2 more than my HD800. And now that I have spent a few days with the LCD-3, I can tell that will dominate my head-time just as thoroughly.
> 
> ...


Thank for your quick response. You are brave enough to recommended LCDs at the 800 thread.


----------



## PinkyPowers

It's not really a recommendation. If you love the HD800, chances are you won't love the LCD-3. I'm just one of the few who dig both headphones, even though my preference leans towards Audeze.


----------



## baiyy1986

PinkyPowers said:


> It's not really a recommendation. If you love the HD800, chances are you won't love the LCD-3. I'm just one of the few who dig both headphones, even though my preference leans towards Audeze.


agree, the mood is the most important thing to choose today's headphone.


----------



## Eggtuary

I checked out Darin Fong Audio's trial version of "Out Of Your Head" software.  Wow, that's cool stuff.  I sent an email asking if they'll be running a sale again any time soon, and he says he plans one for June.  Great timing.  I'll just have to tell the kids that's what I want for Father's Day!


----------



## Thenewguy007

Eggtuary said:


> I checked out Darin Fong Audio's trial version of "Out Of Your Head" software.  Wow, that's cool stuff.  I sent an email asking if they'll be running a sale again any time soon, and he says he plans one for June.  Great timing.  I'll just have to tell the kids that's what I want for Father's Day!



How's that software work? Is it a extension to use with another music player?


----------



## Thenewguy007

It also looks like Yaki Earpads will be making 3rd party HD800 earpads as well.



They look a lot like Dekoni's, maybe a little thinner though.


----------



## Eggtuary

Thenewguy007 said:


> How's that software work? Is it a extension to use with another music player?


Yep.  I got the free trial version, and have been able to use it with Tidal or iTunes. It basically adds its own control panel, and you select what speaker system you want your headphones to emulate.  

There's a thread on it here.  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/out-of-your-head-new-virtual-surround-simulator.689299/


----------



## Got the Shakes

Thenewguy007 said:


> How's that software work? Is it a extension to use with another music player?



It essentially shows up on your computer as 7.1 sound card. In the program itself you can buy different speaker setups that have been recorded from real life setups. If you can find one that suits your ears it can work surprisingly well.


----------



## baiyy1986

Thenewguy007 said:


> It also looks like Yaki Earpads will be making 3rd party HD800 earpads as well.
> 
> 
> 
> They look a lot like Dekoni's, maybe a little thinner though.



This a great news, will them sell it in the US?


----------



## kylewit (May 9, 2018)

I've been using the HD800s with a DacMagicPlus out of my HP Pavillion laptop streaming Tidal hifi. I've been playing around with audio settings to get the best sound and I have to say that a change on the Tidal app made the biggest difference. I selected the Dac as my default output and then entered the settings for Tidal output to the dac and clicked to stop MQA decoding to allow my dac to handle everything. Huge difference in detail and soundstage... and i thought the HD800s couldn't get any better for my budget


----------



## Eggtuary (May 11, 2018)

kylewit said:


> I've been using the HD800s with a DacMagicPlus out of my HP Pavillion laptop streaming Tidal hifi. I've been playing around with audio settings to get the best sound and I have to say that a change on the Tidal app made the biggest difference. I selected the Dac as my default output and then entered the settings for Tidal output to the dac and clicked to stop MQA decoding to allow my dac to handle everything. Huge difference in detail and soundstage... and i thought the HD800s couldn't get any better for my budget


Does DacMagicPlus handle MQA rendering?  A lot of folks let the desktop app handle the first "unfolding" with MQA files, unless their DAC has MQA decoding built in.  If you turned off MQA decoding in the app, then aren't you getting less than the full possible resolution?

Then again, maybe you prefer the sound with the DacMagicPlus doing what it can, regardless of whether it's more or less resolution.  In those internet tests where they ask you to compare lossless versus 256 or higher mp3, I can sometimes tell a difference, but I can't consistently tell you which is "better."  Now I can always tell a 128 mp3, because that is clearly losing information through compression.  But high-res compressed and lossless can often just come down to a matter of preference.  Just like different DACs can come down to preferences.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

kylewit said:


> I've been using the HD800s with a DacMagicPlus out of my HP Pavillion laptop streaming Tidal hifi. I've been playing around with audio settings to get the best sound and I have to say that a change on the Tidal app made the biggest difference. I selected the Dac as my default output and then entered the settings for Tidal output to the dac and clicked to stop MQA decoding to allow my dac to handle everything. Huge difference in detail and soundstage... and i thought the HD800s couldn't get any better for my budget


Agreed. To think I could spend $100 on a cable and did not subscribe to Tidal till last year...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff (May 13, 2018)

I listened to HD820 at Sennheiser SF yesterday via their HDV 820, the apparent successor to HDVD 800. I compared them to the HD800 on hand, though I did not check the headphone's serial number.

The store, for reasons that are beyond me, plays music in the background. I requested that they turn it down during my Orpheus audition earlier this year, and while that helped, it was still an issue. It continues to be an issue with the HD820, which have isolation that I found difficult to distinguish from HD800. For both headphones, I had to turn the music up fairly high to drown out the ambient sound. HD820 offers me little to no isolation, and I don't know the extent to which it hides one's own music from others, as I was alone. If it does, this might be a selling point for some potential buyers.

In general, I found the tonal quality more aggressive, hash, and sibilant than HD800. Though the bass seemed to be more pronounced, the quality of the music (for instance, the finale to act 2 of the Giulini _Figaro_) was sharper. Though in general I fault the abysmal quality of Sennheiser's DACs, I was surprised that HD800 sounded smoother, more organic, and more integrated, though perhaps with slightly less bottom end. I would love to borrow HD820 for an at-home audition, of course, but I doubt Sennheiser would extend that privilege to me. I note that HD800 had a 1/4 inch cable versus the 4-pin XLR of the 820. Perhaps the noise of the shared ground took the edge off the schiit digital to analog conversion, eh @Baldr? 

I am not certain how many hours of play the HD800 had versus the newer HD820. Although I am usually dismissive of burn-in, I mention it for the sake of completion.


----------



## pietcux

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I listened to HD820 at Sennheiser SF yesterday via their HDV 820, the apparent successor to HDVD 800. I compared them to the HD800 on hand, though I did not check the headphone's serial number.
> 
> The store, for reasons that are beyond me, plays music in the background. I requested that they turn it down during my Orpheus audition earlier this year, and while that helped, it was still an issue. It continues to be an issue with the HD820, which have isolation that I found difficult to distinguish from HD800. For both headphones, I had to turn the music up fairly high to drown out the ambient sound. HD820 offers me little to no isolation, and I don't know the extent to which it hides one's own music from others, as I was alone. If it does, this might be a selling point for some potential buyers.
> 
> ...


Was the HD820 a final production model or a prototype, was it for sale?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Unclear, though they were throwing in IE80s with preorders. That specific unit was a floor model and very much not for sale. I'll swing by and ask.


----------



## pietcux

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Unclear, though they were throwing in IE80s with preorders. That specific unit was a floor model and very much not for sale. I'll swing by and ask.


Thanks a lot.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

kylewit said:


> I am currently listening to the HD800s for the first time and I have to say Daaaaamn. I was worried about the bass being weak when I put on some infected mushroom but NOPE. Its so clean and precise and gives just enough oomf to satisfy my needs!! The details on acoustic instruments is phenomenal. The comfort is perfect so far--I can barely feel them. I love the open back sound. And wow the mids!! Ozzy Osbourne sounds so real. Theres just so much room to put every little sound its crazy, nothing crammed with anything else. I LOVE THEM!!! I may be gone from head-fi for a bit. Time to relax and listen to music


I love hearing this. These are the feelings that I look for and crave with audio. Glad you dig em!


PinkyPowers said:


> All a matter of personal preference.
> 
> My tastes favor the Audeze house sound. I listened to my LCD-2 more than my HD800. And now that I have spent a few days with the LCD-3, I can tell that will dominate my head-time just as thoroughly.
> 
> ...


I know the feeling. I love owning the HD800 for the above mentioned, and also having a "laid back" can. 

I feel like some people might be hesitant about getting the HD800 because of how engaging it. If you have a second can that covers the other areas (doesn't have to be expensive) then you can fit any mood you're in.


----------



## PinkyPowers

MTMECraig said:


> I love hearing this. These are the feelings that I look for and crave with audio. Glad you dig em!
> 
> I know the feeling. I love owning the HD800 for the above mentioned, and also having a "laid back" can.
> 
> I feel like some people might be hesitant about getting the HD800 because of how engaging it. If you have a second can that covers the other areas (doesn't have to be expensive) then you can fit any mood you're in.



Yep. I was hesitant of the HD800 for a long time. But when I finally heard it, I thought it was amazing, and indeed much less bright and energetic than I expected. Its a really well-balanced experience, particularly with the right amp.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

PinkyPowers said:


> Yep. I was hesitant of the HD800 for a long time. But when I finally heard it, I thought it was amazing, and indeed much less bright and energetic than I expected. Its a really well-balanced experience, particularly with the right amp.


ha you're beating me to the punch! After you said "less bright and energetic" I was thinking about proper amping.

(To everyone new to the HD800 game)-I know this is personal preference but the HD800 sounds exceptional with OTL amps... With the right tubes it can take off some of the brightness and due to 300ohm impedance they have fantastic synergy. Definitely worth looking into if you already like the HD800. 

A fairly cheap excellent alternative  to this would be the Elemental Watson tube hybrid amp. Takes the edge off the HD800 but it can still keep its speed up which I feel is important. 

Here's a link if you haven't heard of it by now 
Elemental Watson amp


----------



## PinkyPowers

I would love to hear it with a tube amp. Must be magical.

But even with my NFB-28, the HD800 delivers a much warmer, more relaxed sound than I feared from reading Head-Fi for so many years.


----------



## FLTWS

I find the HD800 and Rogue RH-5 a really fine sounding combo.
Have not yet spent time with the HD800 and LYR-3, in time I will.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Multibit is more important than tubes. I expect the gadget will also matter more, at least if the SS is well implemented ala Ragnarok.


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Multibit is more important than tubes. I expect the gadget will also matter more, at least if the SS is well implemented ala Ragnarok.



Glad to see you posting. Things tend to get stiffer and more achy 24 to 48 hrs. after getting well and truly banged up.
I  plan to let others be the first on their block to have a Gadget and see how it all shakes out.


----------



## buke9

PinkyPowers said:


> I would love to hear it with a tube amp. Must be magical.
> 
> But even with my NFB-28, the HD800 delivers a much warmer, more relaxed sound than I feared from reading Head-Fi for so many years.


 I do find them quite nice with a Bottlehead Crack and even more so from Amps and Sound Kenzie.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Since we’re talking tube amps I never knew the HD800 could sound *this* good. I tried it with a lot of solid states and the peak always ruined for me. Now there’s no peak, the soundstage & imaging is as crazily good as normal and overwall there’s a  musicality to the sound that I never knew was possible on the HD800. 

Best part? This DIY amp costed me around $300 only. Twice, no, three times that amount and I never could find a solid state amp to make the HD800 sing


----------



## Catharus

In case anyone in the US is thinking about warranty repair. Here’s my experience.

Process: My original, new pair (50xxx) went back to fix the too freely moving headband. I read post #12342 about fixing this myself but had little appetite for this. So off to Sennheiser’s website I went. Registering my warranty repair request was easy and resulted in a prepaid UPS label. I also called Sennheiser in Connecticut. An actual human being picked up without me having to go through an automated system. The processing time was estimated at two weeks.
After two weeks and a few days I called Sennheiser again to check on status. Again a friendly voice picked up and promised to have someone look at my headphones within a week. The package arrived in less than a week after that.

Result: The pair I got back had a different serial number #43000. The headband held both ear cups nicely. As a bonus the ear pads were even less noisy against my glasses than my original pair. Possibly, the ear pads don’t fit the ear cups as perfectly as on my original pair but I might be imagining this.

So all in all I’m happy. No cost to me, not even shipping, and I have a better functioning pair than I started with.


----------



## buke9 (May 16, 2018)

WilliamLeonhart said:


> Since we’re talking tube amps I never knew the HD800 could sound *this* good. I tried it with a lot of solid states and the peak always ruined for me. Now there’s no peak, the soundstage & imaging is as crazily good as normal and overwall there’s a  musicality to the sound that I never knew was possible on the HD800.
> 
> Best part? This DIY amp costed me around $300 only. Twice, no, three times that amount and I never could find a solid state amp to make the HD800 sing


 Count me interested. Has a Bottlehead look to it but I know it’s not. Airiat Audio Heron 5 is one Solid state along with the Liquid Carbon that aren’t too bad either.


----------



## Justin_Time

MTMECraig said:


> ha you're beating me to the punch! After you said "less bright and energetic" I was thinking about proper amping.
> 
> (To everyone new to the HD800 game)-I know this is personal preference but the HD800 sounds exceptional with OTL amps... With the right tubes it can take off some of the brightness and due to 300ohm impedance they have fantastic synergy. Definitely worth looking into if you already like the HD800.
> 
> ...



One exceptional OTL amp to try is the Apex Teton. Wow!  It sounds like this amp was designed with the HD800S in mind: crystal clear and sweet mid and high. But that bass!  The Teton gives the HD800s a slight lift in the mid-to-upper bass, just enough to provide a firmer foundation to the sound of the HD800S. Everything sounds fuller, more dynamic.  My favorite combo was the Utopia/GS-X Mk2 but the Teton/HD800S is neck to neck with it.


----------



## TranceDude

Are there any differences depending on when these were made, is the serial number important and what does it tell me?


----------



## omniweltall (May 18, 2018)

TranceDude said:


> Are there any differences depending on when these were made, is the serial number important and what does it tell me?


It tells u how old it is. I dont notice any difference between my 16xxx and 49xxx serial no.


----------



## 480126

Got Dekoni Fenestrated Sheepskin. Have cut the dust cover and use Sennheiser dust cover! For my old ears the sound have no changed! But more comfort and it Looks "sexy"! And, maybe I´m crazy, I hear most of the music is in my brain!


----------



## VocaloidDude

Wondering if anyone thinks it's a good idea to run this thing out of the magni 2 and modi from schiit.


----------



## bearFNF (May 18, 2018)

VocaloidDude said:


> Wondering if anyone thinks it's a good idea to run this thing out of the magni 2 and modi from schiit.


I'd do vali2 before magni2. Magni has always been too bright for me with several headphones HD800 included. YMMV and all that.


----------



## VocaloidDude

bearFNF said:


> I'd do vali2 before magni2. Magni has always been too bright for me with several headphones HD800 included. YMMV and all that.


I have the old Vali.


----------



## bearFNF

VocaloidDude said:


> I have the old Vali.


so do I, it works well with the HD800, if you can get past the ringing tubes every time you breath on it...


----------



## VocaloidDude (May 19, 2018)

bearFNF said:


> so do I, it works well with the HD800, if you can get past the ringing tubes every time you breath on it...


I'm sure it will hold me over until I get the Magni 3 or Asgard 2  I am not sure whether to get the Asgard 2 or the Magni 3. The Magni 3 actually has more power than the Asgard 2, the Asgard 2 just has a pre-amp. I have no idea what a pre-amp is for. 

I only payed 750 on the HD800s on an Amazon Warehouse deal, I don't want to push the cost of this purchase that much higher. I don't think there's much reason to when you're just paying for a neutral amplifier with enough power to make it loud enough.


----------



## Thenewguy007

VocaloidDude said:


> I'm sure it will hold me over until I get the Magni 3 or Asgard 2  I am not sure whether to get the Asgard 2 or the Magni 3. The Magni 3 actually has more power than the Asgard 2, the Asgard 2 just has a pre-amp. I have no idea what a pre-amp is for.
> 
> I only payed 750 on the HD800s on an Amazon Warehouse deal, I don't want to push the cost of this purchase that much higher. I don't think there's much reason to when you're just paying for a neutral amplifier with enough power to make it loud enough.



Get neither.

Go with a tube amp for the HD800. Schiit's budget line of tube amps is hard to beat.

The halfway decent solid state amps that start to only sound o.k with the HD800 all go for over a grand.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Thenewguy007 said:


> Get neither.
> 
> Go with a tube amp for the HD800. Schiit's budget line of tube amps is hard to beat.
> 
> The halfway decent solid state amps that start to only sound o.k with the HD800 all go for over a grand.


Cavalli Liquid Carbon is excellent with the HD800 like @buke9  said. It can be had for like $450 used. (If someone buys one make sure they get the original model. There were too many issues with the volume pot on the second gen)

For $250 you can get an Elemental Watson tube hybrid and I don’t see much of anything beating that price for its performance. Not to mention to is NOT a bright amp as a lot of the uber popular entry level amp brands are. 

My 2 cents


----------



## VocaloidDude (May 20, 2018)

Why would I buy tubes? I want neutral sound. Innerfidelity said the Magni 3 is as good as a 1000 dollar solid state amp anyways. Plus I do not want to have to keep buying more tubes when they wear out.


----------



## Eggtuary

VocaloidDude said:


> Why would I buy tubes? I want neutral sound. Innerfidelity said the Magni 3 is as good as a 1000 dollar solid state amp anyways. Plus I do not want to have to keep buying more tubes when they wear out.


Because a lot of folks will say that the HD800 headphones are not neutral.  A tube amp can give you more bass, and balance out the high end.  The folks who do this are trying to minimize processing, so rather than use EQ, they tell you to go with an amp that will naturally warm the sound.


----------



## VocaloidDude (May 20, 2018)

Anyways! Forgetting the gusts of wind which were just interrupting the thread... I am very happy to have found the Sennheiser HD800 for 750 in Amazon Warehouse Deals. I'm also very happy to hear from Innerfidelity and Schiit themselves tell me that the Magni 3 will power basically any headphone, and power it well. Schiit specifically told me that the Magni 2 will power the HD800 okay at moderate listening levels, but for higher volume it doesn't have as much wattage as the Magni 3 which would be a better amp for it.

I remember watching a video called audio mythbusters or something, which was saying that tubes will give you a "warmer sound" but they are always going to be coloring the sound, and if you want the most neutral response possible you should go with solid state amps. They also said that you just need to have an amp which has enough power, and the Magni 3 has that much power.

Also, Innerfidelity said that the HD800 is one of the best monitoring headphones in the world (back in 2012) in his video review. So the idea that a headphone which is detailed enough to bring out all the details in a headphone, and was said by Innerfidelity to give you the most accurate representation you can for audio mixing is "not neutral" seems silly. I have no idea what you guys are talking about with this "it's not neutral" stuff, and then going and suggesting that I need to color a supposedly colored headphone with a colored amplifier.

Anyways, I don't mean to disrespect your taste in tube amps, if you want to listen to them that's fine. The reason I am getting an HD800 is because I had a very specific itch that I wanted to scratch. When I had an LCD-2, the presentation and imaging was better than my HD650. I want to experience the best imaging in the world, which is why I decided to go to the HD800. I am also more than happy to be spending less than 1000 dollars on what seems to be, by my logical deductions, a perfectly respectable set of purchases.


----------



## AxelCloris

Please keep posts from getting personal. Thanks everyone.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

VocaloidDude said:


> Anyways! Forgetting the gusts of wind which were just interrupting the thread... I am very happy to have found the Sennheiser HD800 for 750 in Amazon Warehouse Deals. I'm also very happy to hear from Innerfidelity and Schiit themselves tell me that the Magni 3 will power basically any headphone, and power it well. Schiit specifically told me that the Magni 2 will power the HD800 okay at moderate listening levels, but for higher volume it doesn't have as much wattage as the Magni 3 which would be a better amp for it.
> 
> I remember watching a video called audio mythbusters or something, which was saying that tubes will give you a "warmer sound" but they are always going to be coloring the sound, and if you want the most neutral response possible you should go with solid state amps. They also said that you just need to have an amp which has enough power, and the Magni 3 has that much power.
> 
> ...


Do you have a high end Audio store where you would be able to demo this stuff your self? I feel like it could really help you


----------



## VocaloidDude

MTMECraig said:


> Do you have a high end Audio store where you would be able to demo this stuff your self? I feel like it could really help you


No, I don't. I have been demoing stuff through online stores for years. It is not ideal, but it is simply what I must endure.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig (May 20, 2018)

VocaloidDude said:


> No, I don't. I have been demoing stuff through online stores for years. It is not ideal, but it is simply what I must endure.


Edit: sorry was too off topic. I don’t want to derail the thread.


----------



## Eggtuary (May 20, 2018)

VocaloidDude said:


> Also, Innerfidelity said that the HD800 is one of the best monitoring headphones in the world (back in 2012) in his video review. So the idea that a headphone which is detailed enough to bring out all the details in a headphone, and was said by Innerfidelity to give you the most accurate representation you can for audio mixing is "not neutral" seems silly. I have no idea what you guys are talking about with this "it's not neutral" stuff, and then going and suggesting that I need to color a supposedly colored headphone with a colored amplifier.


When you get your HD800 phones, they should come with a zip drive.  On the drive will be a mapping of the frequency response curve.  It's quite flat ... except for:

* "Spike" around 6 kHz
* Doesn't show anything for the ends of the range of human hearing (down near 20 Hz, for instance.)  Which suggests there may be a significant roll off at the low end.

So, it's not perfectly neutral, by Sennheiser's own admission, though it's pretty darn close.  And the theory is that Sennheiser deliberately built in the peak around 6 kHz because it emphasizes those things we perceive as "detail."

So, if you truly want neutral, you'll need to bring up the lowest end, and bring down the peak.  I'm among those who say an EQ is better for that task.  I'd also say I'm getting older, so I have to use a bit of a U-shaped curve in my EQ (except around 6 kHz) in order to compensate for my aging hearing.  If you're a younger guy, you may not need that at all.

We're just saying that a warm tube amp is one way that some people have chosen to "EQ" in a fairly minimalist way.


----------



## pietcux

VocaloidDude said:


> No, I don't. I have been demoing stuff through online stores for years. It is not ideal, but it is simply what I must endure.


You could also take a used Sennheiser HDVA 600 into consideration. It is highly underrated here on this site, got mine for 600 €. Built like a tank and IMHO a great synergy with the HD800 family as with the HD6 family. Very powerful balanced and unbalanced. I love it.


----------



## VocaloidDude

pietcux said:


> You could also take a used Sennheiser HDVA 600 into consideration. It is highly underrated here on this site, got mine for 600 €. Built like a tank and IMHO a great synergy with the HD800 family as with the HD6 family. Very powerful balanced and unbalanced. I love it.


I don't know why I need such a thing, is the only problem. The Magni 3 seems good enough. 800 dollars is a significant sum of money to spend on fun things, when the fun could be spent more wisely elsewhere, possibly.


----------



## treebug

pietcux said:


> You could also take a used Sennheiser HDVA 600 into consideration. It is highly underrated here on this site, got mine for 600 €. Built like a tank and IMHO a great synergy with the HD800 family as with the HD6 family. Very powerful balanced and unbalanced. I love it.



+1
Had mine 4 years. Still to find better for the HD800.


----------



## pietcux

VocaloidDude said:


> I don't know why I need such a thing, is the only problem. The Magni 3 seems good enough. 800 dollars is a significant sum of money to spend on fun things, when the fun could be spent more wisely elsewhere, possibly.


That's completely ok for me. The nature of this forum is that we give each other advises how to optimise our music listening experience, that's all. If a Magni 3 is all you need then be it so.


----------



## VocaloidDude

pietcux said:


> That's completely ok for me. The nature of this forum is that we give each other advises how to optimise our music listening experience, that's all. If a Magni 3 is all you need then be it so.


I mean I don't even know what specific tangible thing I would be buying for 700 more dollars than what I am paying. That bothers me.


----------



## yates7592

VocaloidDude said:


> I don't know why I need such a thing, is the only problem. The Magni 3 seems good enough. 800 dollars is a significant sum of money to spend on fun things, when the fun could be spent more wisely elsewhere, possibly.



There has been a lot of good advice given to you here over the past few days regarding how to get the best out of HD800. I speak as someone who has had an eternal battle with them and now I'm on my 3rd pair and something like the 6th amp. Tubed amps can indeed give the best sound with HD800, but practically I found out recently that this isn't for me. I think when you receive your HD800 and spend some serious time with them, and you will hear both the pro's and the con's, you will come to appreciate the good advice you have been given and will then start on the long and arduous HD800 journey. I wish you luck and hope you enjoy!


----------



## Thenewguy007 (May 20, 2018)

VocaloidDude said:


> No, I don't. I have been demoing stuff through online stores for years. It is not ideal, but it is simply what I must endure.



If your budget is around what the Magni2 costs, then there really isn't a lot better you can do.


----------



## kylewit

So tomorrow I will be taking the day at Audio 46 and B&H to try on as many HPs as I can to see if I can find a pair to compliment my Hd800/hdva600/dacmagicplus setup. I plan to bring my Oppo ha-2 and ipod touch to plug them into, and Ill see if I can test with a chord mojo. I have my eyes set foremost on the Sony mdr-z1rs and Audeze lcd3s. Any recommendations for similar HPs to these? or HPs that compliment the Hd800s well?


----------



## pietcux

kylewit said:


> So tomorrow I will be taking the day at Audio 46 and B&H to try on as many HPs as I can to see if I can find a pair to compliment my Hd800/hdva600/dacmagicplus setup. I plan to bring my Oppo ha-2 and ipod touch to plug them into, and Ill see if I can test with a chord mojo. I have my eyes set foremost on the Sony mdr-z1rs and Audeze lcd3s. Any recommendations for similar HPs to these? or HPs that compliment the Hd800s well?


As you already own the HD800, I think a compliment can only be found in a closed can. The Sony Z1R is on my head right now it has a big soundstage too and a quite unique bass performance. Some people hate this can, others, including me, like it a lot for how it sounds. It is a hit and miss.


----------



## DavidA

VocaloidDude said:


> I mean I don't even know what specific tangible thing I would be buying for 700 more dollars than what I am paying. That bothers me.


As a HD800 owner I've had a chance to listen with various amps and one that I found is that some headphones and amp go better together than others and its due synergy between them.  The synergy is from factors like impedance matching, harmonics and others that I'm still learning about.  The Magni3 is a good amp for the HD800 and if that is all you use the HD800 with you will never know what others are talking about which is fine but if you ever get the chance to hear the HD800 with other amps you might realize that the HD800's sound can change quite a bit, good or bad change only you can say.  I've been lucky to have heard my HD800 with a few amps and I've found that there are a few amps that really make the HD800 and pleasure to listen to while there are some amps that actually make me want to sell them ASAP.


----------



## johnjen

VocaloidDude said:


> I don't know why I need such a thing, is the only problem. The Magni 3 seems good enough. 800 dollars is a significant sum of money to spend on fun things, when the fun could be spent more wisely elsewhere, possibly.





VocaloidDude said:


> I mean I don't even know what specific tangible thing I would be buying for 700 more dollars than what I am paying. That bothers me.


Most folks when they 1st jump into this end of the pool (the high end of the hobby) find out that their choices of gear will usually need to change in order to be satisfied with their degree of enjoyment of the music they listen to.
That is because when State of the Art (SotA) gear (like the 800's) are chosen, they will deliver the sound of the upstream gear AND source material with a very high degree of resolution and precision.
This in turn means what you feed the 800's, is what you'll hear.
Whereas less precise headphones, with less resolution, will tend to smooth over the rough spots of that upstream gear, and be acceptable.

800's are excellent HP's, are still SotA, and have been for almost 10 years now.
But they are 'picky' in the sense that certain gear just doesn't deliver the signal that matches with your choices of music and your understanding of what you want to hear.

IOW playing in the deep end of this hobbies pool, the SotA end, means gear isn't chosen by price as the primary factor, but by its suitability to the task at hand, namely, does it play well with the 800's.
And yes there are choices at all price levels, all with varying degrees of suitability, along with their corresponding compromises.

Think of it this way.
You go out an buy a porsche and then want to put $40 retreads on it.
Yeah it's still a car and it drives down the road etc. but would you be happy driving it that way?

That is what the previous recommendations are all about, helping you steer away from those $40 retreads, or the truck or van tires etc.
And avoiding a whole bunch of previously made mistakes by those who have already been there and done that, got the T-shirt, and the coffee mug, the bumper sticker, and have a deeper understanding of the phrase, "Sorry about your wallet".

JJ


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

It is a journey. One thing I’ve learnt over the years in this hobby is that some headphones will “fool” us by being  not too hard to drive to full volume. The HD650, the R70X and the HD800 are the first that came my to mind. Even Macbooks can drive them to listenable levels. 
Perhaps due to the HD800’s  status as _the_ dynamic headphones to buy, I’ve seen it appear in a lot of promotion materials. For amps. Virtually when an amp can drive the HD800 well, it’s a proof to that amp’s merits. 
Unfortunately while a lot of amp can drive the HD800 “well”, let’s say 80% of a “perfect” sound if such a thing exists, the remaining 20% might as well ruin it for many people. Personally, it’s always the peak and the artifical mid ranges that ruin the HD800 for me. But that’s not the HD800’s problem, it’s the amp’s problem. A few tube amps and very few solid state amps can solve this for me, and the list does not include some amps that I really liked:  Hugo, Jotunheim, iFi etc. 
Thus finding a proper amp for the HD800 is a journey in itself. At times I just want to sell the cans because of all the time and frustration it causes - if only thing were as simple as specifications and measurements and online reviews (I do write those actually).  But when I find an amp that truly makes the HD800 shine, one that delivers the remaining 20%... What to say? I was truly re-discovering my music, something I can’t said lightly having bought and sold too many headphones over the years. 
I do hope you reach that moment faster than me. 


VocaloidDude said:


> I mean I don't even know what specific tangible thing I would be buying for 700 more dollars than what I am paying. That bothers me.





yates7592 said:


> There has been a lot of good advice given to you here over the past few days regarding how to get the best out of HD800. I speak as someone who has had an eternal battle with them and now I'm on my 3rd pair and something like the 6th amp. Tubed amps can indeed give the best sound with HD800, but practically I found out recently that this isn't for me. I think when you receive your HD800 and spend some serious time with them, and you will hear both the pro's and the con's, you will come to appreciate the good advice you have been given and will then start on the long and arduous HD800 journey. I wish you luck and hope you enjoy!


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig (May 20, 2018)

VocaloidDude said:


> I don't know why I need such a thing, is the only problem. The Magni 3 seems good enough. 800 dollars is a significant sum of money to spend on fun things, when the fun could be spent more wisely elsewhere, possibly.


The thing is (and this is why I asked about your ability to hear a lot of things)  different amps can turn the HD800 from a good headphone to one that is shockingly great.


VocaloidDude said:


> I mean I don't even know what specific tangible thing I would be buying for 700 more dollars than what I am paying. That bothers me.


This is where experience with this stuff plays a major role. The HD800 is very revealing of gear. So the better quality amp you feed it, will then reward you in spades...

Everyone has their own idea of “what sound is worth”. Personally I feel like you are just scratching the surface with the HD800 and it’s sort of  “good enough...” To me it’s almost a waste to end there. As the saying goes, to each his own though.

I just hope some day you will get to hear what the the HD800 can actually sound like, not including tube amps


----------



## omniweltall

I think the guy is on the right track. HD800 is a great can, my personal fav to date. He cant go wrong with usd100 magni 3. 

Best to take it slowly with this hobby and not get crazy with expensive gears. I made that mistake earlier on my journey. 

My advise is get the Schiit Loki for the sub-bass boost. It is cheap and stacks perfectly with the magni 3.


----------



## VocaloidDude

Eggtuary said:


> When you get your HD800 phones, they should come with a zip drive.  On the drive will be a mapping of the frequency response curve.  It's quite flat ... except for:
> 
> * "Spike" around 6 kHz
> * Doesn't show anything for the ends of the range of human hearing (down near 20 Hz, for instance.)  Which suggests there may be a significant roll off at the low end.
> ...


I see what you mean. I'll get the Loki once I have the money.


----------



## VocaloidDude

Listening to the HD800 on the Schiit Vali. I'm listening to some old favorites, I never heard that crackling in the recording before, I thought it was static electricity at first and I was checking to see if my clothing was staticy, but no LOL. That's kind of amazing.


----------



## pietcux

VocaloidDude said:


> Listening to the HD800 on the Schiit Vali. I'm listening to some old favorites, I never heard that crackling in the recording before, I thought it was static electricity at first and I was checking to see if my clothing was staticy, but no LOL. That's kind of amazing.


Hi, I am glad that you like it. Now you got the Vali instead of the Magni 3?


----------



## VocaloidDude (May 21, 2018)

pietcux said:


> Hi, I am glad that you like it. Now you got the Vali instead of the Magni 3?


I had the Vali. I have a Vali and Magni 2. The Magni 3 will take 3 weeks to get to me on back order. I can see what people mean by these headphones are bright. The Vali does handle it better, but I think if I had the Schiit Loki then I could handle it with the Magni 2. It gets plenty loud as well on these amps.

Yeah, these headphones have ASMR type imaging, it's amazing.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Listening to new people experience hd800 is one of the greatest joys in headphonia.


----------



## VocaloidDude

This album in flac on the HD800 

(The youtube video is obviously not in flac, but this is just an example of what I'm listening to).


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

glorious. i recommend Wagner and Brahms's large orchestral things — O Heilige Götter from the Solti Ring, for instance, or the opening of the D minor concerto. HD800 is probably the best way to hear them. K1000 is interesting, and I expect my sphere will be a game changer, but as yet, they're my gold standard.


----------



## kylewit

Jazz at the Pawnshop is the best I've found in my first month or so...


----------



## VocaloidDude

I'll probably be able to afford the Sennheiser HDVA 600 by the end of next week if all goes according to plan. I hope that they're still available for that price on Amazon by next Friday or Saturday.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

VocaloidDude said:


> I'll probably be able to afford the Sennheiser HDVA 600 by the end of next week if all goes according to plan. I hope that they're still available for that price on Amazon by next Friday or Saturday.


I’m confused.  I thought you didn’t think it was worth it to get anything other then a $80 amp for the HD800?


----------



## PinkyPowers

VocaloidDude said:


> This album in flac on the HD800
> 
> (The youtube video is obviously not in flac, but this is just an example of what I'm listening to).




lol. As an illustrator, all I can see is her butt is in the wrong place.


----------



## bearFNF

PinkyPowers said:


> lol. As an illustrator, all I can see is her butt is in the wrong place.


she does look like a rubber lady doesn't she. LOL My, what long arms you have...


----------



## Justin_Time

Frida309 said:


> Got Dekoni Fenestrated Sheepskin. Have cut the dust cover and use Sennheiser dust cover! For my old ears the sound have no changed! But more comfort and it Looks "sexy"! And, maybe I´m crazy, I hear most of the music is in my brain!



Yes, I agree.  The Dekoni earpads look great on the HD800 and HD800S.

And BTW, you are not crazy.  That is the artifact of headphone sound.  The center image appears to come out of your forehead, or your brain if you prefer.

If you have binaural recording or DSP manipulation of the sound, then you can have it image closer to what you would hear from a pair of speakers.

I like the sound coming from my brain: it is more intimate than live music or speakers.


----------



## Justin_Time

What an exciting evening!

I spent about two hours listening to my HD800S and two new amps: the Eddie Current Aficionado and the Apex Pinnacle. Wow!


----------



## omniweltall

Justin_Time said:


> What an exciting evening!
> 
> I spent about two hours listening to my HD800S and two new amps: the Eddie Current Aficionado and the Apex Pinnacle. Wow!


You lucky person!!

Which one is better?


----------



## 480126

Justin_Time said:


> Yes, I agree.  The Dekoni earpads look great on the HD800 and HD800S.
> 
> And BTW, you are not crazy.  That is the artifact of headphone sound.  The center image appears to come out of your forehead, or your brain if you prefer.
> 
> ...


Amazing Music to start in a sunny Day!


----------



## Thenewguy007

Justin_Time said:


> What an exciting evening!
> 
> I spent about two hours listening to my HD800S and two new amps: the Eddie Current Aficionado and the Apex Pinnacle. Wow!



Impressions?


----------



## Thenewguy007

VocaloidDude said:


> I'll probably be able to afford the Sennheiser HDVA 600 by the end of next week if all goes according to plan. I hope that they're still available for that price on Amazon by next Friday or Saturday.



There are a few comparisons articles/threads with that amp.

This is a big shootout that was done
http://www.headphoneer.com/hd800-amplifier-review/

There was another thread that had a nice round up of amps & how they paired with the HD800.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mat...rder-than-it-should-be-very-long-post.729976/


----------



## Justin_Time

Thenewguy007 said:


> Impressions?


Too early for me to pick and choose. I will have more to say in a few months.

For now, all I can say is that the HD800S produced the clearest, purest sound with the Pinnacle that I ever heard. With the Aficionado, there is a tad more energy.  But I can live happily with either amp.

I need to roll the tubes to find out what these amps are truly capable of.


----------



## VocaloidDude

MTMECraig said:


> I’m confused.  I thought you didn’t think it was worth it to get anything other then a $80 amp for the HD800?


Well, I changed between my two amplifiers and I realized how much of a difference there is between just the Magni 2 and the Vali. Usually I don't really notice a difference, but that was was pretty obvious. I also notice that these headphones do feel like they need to be powered by a more powerful amplifier, which is what the Magni 3 would do, but I have been wanting to try a really expensive amplifier for my headphones a lot. I do feel like these headphones sound a little under powered on these two amplifiers, even though even with these amplifiers the imaging is much better than the HD650. The HD650 has a fuller sound compared to the HD800 on these headphones, the HD800 sounds thin, and I suspect it's because of the amps I'm using not having a lot of wattage at 300ohms.


----------



## VocaloidDude

Oh my god Schiit shipped my Magni 3. I thought it would be on 3 week back order


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

But they (should) have a nice return policy?


VocaloidDude said:


> Oh my god Schiit shipped my Magni 3. I thought it would be on 3 week back order


----------



## VocaloidDude

WilliamLeonhart said:


> But they (should) have a nice return policy?


I still want it, this is a good thing. It's only 100 dollars. It will make for a nice backup amp.


----------



## Evshrug

VocaloidDude said:


> This album in flac on the HD800
> 
> (The youtube video is obviously not in flac, but this is just an example of what I'm listening to).



Wow, yeah that is a choice recording! Love it when a composition really lets the violins flutter and dance about, do you get those pleasant shivers at the nape of your neck too?



VocaloidDude said:


> I'll probably be able to afford the Sennheiser HDVA 600 by the end of next week if all goes according to plan. I hope that they're still available for that price on Amazon by next Friday or Saturday.


Amazon Warehouse deals? Well, if you miss the deal, another probably will come along at some point.
I’m usually a Middle of the Road guy... I’ve got a $19k car (VW Golf hatchback), a townhouse just big enough for two people to live and work from home, a PS4 instead of updating my gaming PC (which had an i5 CPU and $200 graphics card), and at one point I thought reeeeally hard before buying a $200 Headphone (to use with my $50 amp that I only bought so I could control the volume from my Xbox 360’s RCA outputs... which, by the way, volume control is the purpose of a pre-amp, usually for speakers). BUT, After enjoying music for a long time and joining head-fi in 2009, I finally got an HD 800 two years ago and an HDV 820 last year, and I have a bunch of different “out of your head” surround DSPs including a Smyth Realizer A16 on the way from Kickstarter (early bird), and a bunch of other expensive accessories. At this point, I’ve put more relative money and value in audio than any other hobby, it’s my one splurge and pursuit of new heights. All because of experience gained along the way.

I can understand you thinking there’s not much point in amps (or DACs) beyond Schiit’s entry-level gear. If it’s loud enough, and I still hear the same notes in the music, who cares right? Well, there hasn’t been 80+ years of development and today’s huge variety of options at all different prices and sizes for no reason! It’s actually really difficult to describe what gets better with better gear to someone who hasn’t experienced it for themself. Most people are most sensitive to pitch and midrange volume, and if they’re a bit experienced they can hear the differences from different frequency response graphs. Volume is only part of it... and you have already experienced some of the difference yourself just by picking up the HD 800 compared to what you had before. Details are more crisp, notes are more separated from each other, percussions and dynamic “blasts” have more impact... better amping (and digital conversion) also contribute to those factors, as well as the sense of depth and layering, bass that is tighter and more detailed, treble that is more controlled and less brittle, more dynamic difference between peak loudness and rests, etc. We can make all the analogies to drinking soda without the fizz that we want, and talk about how some gear helps the sound be “magical” and “lively” while others sound “dull” and “lifeless,” but the fact is, it’s difficult to describe the changes that aren’t attributed to “more bass” or “recessed mids.”

Others, like @PinkyPowers , @MTMECraig , and @bearFNF might be better at explaining this, either because of practice or breadth of experience. It’s almost like they’re professionals, or something.




PinkyPowers said:


> lol. As an illustrator, all I can see is her butt is in the wrong place.





bearFNF said:


> she does look like a rubber lady doesn't she. LOL My, what long arms you have...


It’s a pretty famous painting, hailed for its treatment of lighting and 3D treatment of form back in it’s day, but I also can’t help but notice that she has way too many bones in her spine, a gravity defying boob growing out from her armpit, etc etc 




Justin_Time said:


> Yes, I agree.  The Dekoni earpads look great on the HD800 and HD800S.
> 
> And BTW, you are not crazy.  That is the artifact of headphone sound.  The center image appears to come out of your forehead, or your brain if you prefer.
> 
> ...


I’m a huge fan of binaural recordings and carefully applied DSP effects! Ok, I know you just said you prefer the intimacy of the brain-stage, and sometimes I like that presentation and sometimes with bands being recorded as separate tracks with each instrument performed directly in front of a microphone and then mixed up later on an acoustic engineer’s board the head stage makes the most sense, but more and more I’m preferring the more human sound of binaural and binaural-like sound that externalizes the soundstage.

Also, funny you should mention @DekoniAudio pads; just yesterday, I hit the motherlode!


----------



## Evshrug

VocaloidDude said:


> I still want it, this is a good thing. It's only 100 dollars. It will make for a nice backup amp.


Maybe make for a nice bedside/office rig!


----------



## PinkyPowers

Evshrug said:


> I can understand you thinking there’s not much point in amps (or DACs) beyond Schiit’s entry-level gear. If it’s loud enough, and I still hear the same notes in the music, who cares right? Well, there hasn’t been 80+ years of development and today’s huge variety of options at all different prices and sizes for no reason! It’s actually really difficult to describe what gets better with better gear to someone who hasn’t experienced it for themself. Most people are most sensitive to pitch and midrange volume, and if they’re a bit experienced they can hear the differences from different frequency response graphs. Volume is only part of it... and you have already experienced some of the difference yourself just by picking up the HD 800 compared to what you had before. Details are more crisp, notes are more separated from each other, percussions and dynamic “blasts” have more impact... better amping (and digital conversion) also contribute to those factors, as well as the sense of depth and layering, bass that is tighter and more detailed, treble that is more controlled and less brittle, more dynamic difference between peak loudness and rests, etc. We can make all the analogies to drinking soda without the fizz that we want, and talk about how some gear helps the sound be “magical” and “lively” while others sound “dull” and “lifeless,” but the fact is, it’s difficult to describe the changes that aren’t attributed to “more bass” or “recessed mids.”
> 
> Others, like @PinkyPowers , @MTMECraig , and @bearFNF might be better at explaining this, either because of practice or breadth of experience. It’s almost like they’re professionals, or something.



Yeah, it's difficult to explain why higher-end source gear makes as much of a difference as it does. But when you hear an amazing headphone, like the HD800, driven by a better amp, and fed by a robust DAC, you realize what you've been missing.

My first desktop DAC/Amp was the Maverick Audio TubeMagic D1 Plus. A fine choice to start off with. A real fine choice. But my NFB-28 delivers a significantly fuller, richer, and smoother sound. Better dynamics and much better depth. My LCD-2 opened up in a big way.


----------



## Underthebed

What is the consensus on the Deakoni Pads? I'm interested in grabbing a set for my HD800 but i'm curious how they affect the sound signature?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Evshrug said:


> I can understand you thinking there’s not much point in amps (or DACs) beyond Schiit’s entry-level gear. If it’s loud enough, and I still hear the same notes in the music, who cares right?



This sums up my experiences with the HD800 nicely. I was thinking to myself “Well this is the iFi retro, if it can’t make the HD800 sounds amazing, what can? Is the HD800 ‘bad’?” The Hugo kinda reinforces that impression. I stuck with cheap amps for so long until I found out that the HD800 is actually amazing. It just need an amp with better synergy


----------



## 480126

Underthebed said:


> What is the consensus on the Deakoni Pads? I'm interested in grabbing a set for my HD800 but i'm curious how they affect the sound signature?


I got dekoni fenestrated Pads. I cut the dust cover from dekoni and use the original HD800s dust cover. SQ is equal. I think that I hear a Little bit more Details and the bass is a Little bit tighter! But: Comfort is much better and the dekoni pads Looks sexy! For me it was a good choice!


----------



## johnjen

Underthebed said:


> What is the consensus on the Deakoni Pads? I'm interested in grabbing a set for my HD800 but i'm curious how they affect the sound signature?


There are some who like what the dekoni pads do, while others find they come up a bit short from the stock pads.

In my case I've only tried the fenestrated sheepskin version and found it wanting.

JJ


----------



## omniweltall

johnjen said:


> There are some who like what the dekoni pads do, while others find they come up a bit short from the stock pads.
> 
> In my case I've only tried the fenestrated sheepskin version and found it wanting.
> 
> JJ


Wanting in what sort of way, JJ?


----------



## johnjen

omniweltall said:


> Wanting in what sort of way, JJ?



These are my impressions of the fenestrated pads.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread.650510/page-1771#post-14143988

JJ


----------



## omniweltall

johnjen said:


> These are my impressions of the fenestrated pads.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread.650510/page-1771#post-14143988
> 
> JJ


Thanks JJ. Darn. Same thing with hd650. Dekoni pads are way more comfortable but ultimately worse sounding. 

Btw, as the dekoni pads already have attached felt, did you use the sennheiser stock one, when using dekoni?


----------



## johnjen (May 23, 2018)

I long ago removed the stock inner shield, so no, and I thought about cutting out their inner shield as well but I doubt it would make enough difference.
The amount of change was, for me, just too much and in the wrong directions.

JJ


----------



## TYATYA

kylewit said:


> Does chord mojo have two channel 3-pin female xlr? That is how I connect dacmagic to hdva600.
> If not how does it connect to an amp for use as a dac. I have looked at chord mojo for a while, as I could use it for other HPs. I live in NYC so I think I will head to Audio46 to try it out with hd800. Thanks for recommendation!


I cant say mojo is suit for hd800s, but, I am sure Mojo + Poly (mono block version, not attach together by jacks) drives it well. 
It worth to try.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

WilliamLeonhart said:


> This sums up my experiences with the HD800 nicely. I was thinking to myself “Well this is the iFi retro, if it can’t make the HD800 sounds amazing, what can? Is the HD800 ‘bad’?” The Hugo kinda reinforces that impression. *I stuck with cheap amps for so long until I found out that the HD800 is actually amazing. It just need an amp with better synergy*



Amen.

I see it as already owning a Ferrari and feeling like all it needs is 4 used tires from your friend Jeff for $25 a tire. It will obviously work, but you don't know what your missing. (shout out to my dude Jeff who keeps it spinnin yo!)

The HD800 is sooo revealing. Due to the bright peak I don't recommend pairing it with a bright amp (nice if you can find out that information before you buy the amp).It would also be nice and this is my opinion as well, if your amp can add some more bass to the HD800. Synergy can easily be had with this bad boy. Just takes a little research. 

I know that this is a boring post for the majority of HD800 users out there, you all know this by now. Just trying to help out all the young dudes.

 
YoutubeBowieTrack
(I think this is a little too bright for the HD800 at least with the tubes I have in now. Still one of my fave Bowie songs that gets stuck super fierce in my head)


----------



## Tranman409

Not sure what to do. I always took good care of my HD800...always put them back in the case when not in use and making sure it's always placed L/R and never "twisted" or move around when they were in use(always at my desk). Over the past few years, the cable that has the connector seems to have twisted. Now it's at the point where the left side has exposed the wire and I am losing sound on my left side of the headphones. Minor adjustment will fix it but it will only get worst. I was wondering what I could do to resolve this if my warranty has expired. I find it difficult to purchase a new stock cables for over $100. I'm scared to mess around with it more before I lose sound entirely on the left side.  I sent an email to sennheiser so waiting for their response. 

Date of purchase: 24. Nov 2015
Warranty expires: 24. Nov 2017




Images of the exposed wire
https://i.imgur.com/KxyoPN6.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Z54ilOh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/eIaCpiK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Znnmlk8.jpg


----------



## johnjen

There are a few options available to you.

Your stock cable is dying, that is obvious.
A new 'stock' cable is rather expensive.

There are plenty of aftermarket cables available and some cables are being sold used.
ebay will give you some choices and a search for HD800 cables will provide new cable options.

Just a few ideas to pursue, or not.

JJ


----------



## OldSkool

Tranman409 said:


> Not sure what to do. I always took good care of my HD800...always put them back in the case when not in use and making sure it's always placed L/R and never "twisted" or move around when they were in use(always at my desk). Over the past few years, the cable that has the connector seems to have twisted. Now it's at the point where the left side has exposed the wire and I am losing sound on my left side of the headphones. Minor adjustment will fix it but it will only get worst. I was wondering what I could do to resolve this if my warranty has expired. I find it difficult to purchase a new stock cables for over $100. I'm scared to mess around with it more before I lose sound entirely on the left side.  I sent an email to sennheiser so waiting for their response.
> 
> Date of purchase: 24. Nov 2015
> Warranty expires: 24. Nov 2017



If Sennheiser won't cover the cable under warranty, shoot me a PM. I have a very good, stock HD800 cable that I will happily send you.

In the spirit of Head-Fi...just paying it forward. 

Cheers.


----------



## Tranman409

johnjen said:


> There are a few options available to you.
> 
> Your stock cable is dying, that is obvious.
> A new 'stock' cable is rather expensive.
> ...



Thanks for the ideas. I took a picture of how I normally store it and now have a general idea on why it happened and will take preventive measures. The cable flex when I put it up. 

https://i.imgur.com/K08MZF1.jpg



OldSkool said:


> If Sennheiser won't cover the cable under warranty, shoot me a PM. I have a very good, stock HD800 cable that I will happily send you.
> 
> In the spirit of Head-Fi...just paying it forward.
> 
> Cheers.




You are a life saver. I sent an email yesterday and still waiting for a response. I will wait a week or two for a response and get back to you. Thank you so much again!


----------



## pietcux

Tranman409 said:


> Thanks for the ideas. I took a picture of how I normally store it and now have a general idea on why it happened and will take preventive measures. The cable flex when I put it up.
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/K08MZF1.jpg
> 
> ...


The picture shows the problem that you created. You created a coil and fixed it with cable ties. This creates a heavy weight that tows on the thin cables between the split and the headphone plugs. Maybe this coil even hooked behind furniture when you were moving. This causes much strain on the thin cables and damaged them obviously. Uncoiled the cable weight distributes much better and you have much less strain on the thin  cables which are now defect.


----------



## aak57 (May 24, 2018)

So, I took a chance on an ebay listing from a big seller for an HD800 listed as refurbished with no pictures since it was $670 shipped.  Got it today and gave it a once over and I don't see anything wrong with the condition, so hopefully I don't have any failure issues in the future (the packing slip does say "Used - Very Good" rather than refurbished so I'm hoping that this was just a return from someone who didn't want them).  Currently listening to it, and I regret not having done this sooner since I had been eyeing the HD800 for years, but could never stomach paying more than a couple hundred on headphones.

I have nothing unique to say but after listening to a few songs and going back to my HD650, I am in awe of the soundstage difference.  I'm still aware of the fact that my hearing isn't really good enough to appreciate everything it's bringing to the table which is why I was always hesitant to jump into hi-fi, but I'm still noticing increased detail in each part of the song which leads to a different experience overall, rather than a simple change in sound signature which I was used to getting during my mid-fi adventures.  Since I've been getting into EDM I decided to try an Equalizer preset that Metal571 had created and I'm pretty impressed at the sub bass these things can crank out; people really weren't kidding about how EQ-friendly they are.

The one downside is I'm terrified of handling this thing, namely the flimsy ridged silver part on the sides that I am pretty sure I'm going to dent/buckle in the first week.  There's also a sticker on the front of the box calling it B grade but I don't know if that's from Sennheiser or the reseller as I really don't see anything on these that would make them a B grade cosmetically.


----------



## johnjen (May 25, 2018)

Those side panels aren't really all that fragile.
And it's best to pickup and hold the 800's by the center ring ridge that surrounds the driver magnet.
That ridge is sharp enough for complete control of the 800's when putting them on or off.
And the 'B' rating means it is B stock, which means they were returned and then sold as nearly new with a full warranty.

JJ


----------



## aak57

Thanks for the info about the grade, that makes sense.  And just to clarify I do know not to hold them by those panels, I'm just somewhat clumsy and can see myself fumbling with them at some point and grabbing the panels in a half-panic.


----------



## RCBinTN

I always remove the cables from my HD800 when finished listening for the day.
Then store the cables in a loose "lasso" fashion so zero stress on the cable and connector.
The cable connectors to the HP are very robust...so it's easy to remove and reinstall the cable.

Just FYI and FWIW,
RCB


----------



## Thenewguy007

RCBinTN said:


> I always remove the cables from my HD800 when finished listening for the day.
> Then store the cables in a loose "lasso" fashion so zero stress on the cable and connector.
> The cable connectors to the HP are very robust...so it's easy to remove and reinstall the cable.
> 
> ...



I would think that removing & inserting them, like with anything, will wear them out quicker. Especially if you are doing it on a constant daily basis.
The connectors lock in tight, but they are pretty flimsy on the insides.


----------



## RCBinTN

Well, it works for me.


----------



## Makiah S (May 25, 2018)

I always get scared when I spend time away from my HD 800. I get really into what ever I'm listening and do some strictly comparative listens and stick really nit picking how the HD 800 compares

but on the rare days that I just get to LISTEN... I'm always impressed!!!!! It's like a sigh of relief after days and weeks of reviews, critical listening it's nice to finally just plug in and relax with my HD 800 even if only for 7-8 minuet's!

Also now a month into the Audio Envy Tone Kraft Copper and I must say I'm impressed! It brings both exceptional clarity and naturalness! I think I might even prefer it over my Braided OCC Silver


----------



## TYATYA

RCBinTN said:


> I always remove the cables from my HD800 when finished listening for the day.
> Then store the cables in a loose "lasso" fashion so zero stress on the cable and connector.
> The cable connectors to the HP are very robust...so it's easy to remove and reinstall the cable.
> 
> ...




 
Zero stress on cable. Remove and install the cable daily will cause wear off the coating on contact pins, which applied for improve electric transfering


----------



## VocaloidDude

Just got the Magni 3. Holy crap did that sound ever beef up. When it was just on the Magni 2 it sounded a bit thin. I'm listening to By The Throat by Ben Frost. The envelopment and clarity of all these electronic noises is pretty awesome. It's so crystallic. And the way all the instruments are separated out and really set as if they have depth is amazing. That must be the "imaging" that people talk about when they reference these headphones. It really is amazing to listen to music on headphones and listen to the depth of the recording. Even the supposed down side to these headphones, being able to hear the "poor quality" on certain recordings I find fascinating.


----------



## RCBinTN

Well, it seems like I need to re-visit my cable strategy. 
I never thought about wearing the coating off the contact pins. 
Thanks for the information, @TYATYA.


----------



## RCBinTN

RCBinTN said:


> Well, it seems like I need to re-visit my cable strategy.
> I never thought about wearing the coating off the contact pins.
> Thanks for the information, @TYATYA.



FYI...after the above discussion, about removing / reconnecting cables each day, I reached out to my cable supplier Wywires.
I've been using Wywires cables now for years, first the Red and now Platinum HP cables, with my HD800.
http://www.wywires.com/

I asked Alex the question straight out...is there a risk to wear-off the pin coating by frequent removal / reconnect?
His answer is below:

"There is no coating on the pins! As long as you are careful there should be no problem.
If you want to be extra sure, a little contact cleaner on the plugs and the jacks in the headphones will keep things clean, maybe twice a year.
I recommend Caig Pro Gold D5S for around $10 from Parts Express (partsexpress.com)."

FYI, friends.
Thanks to Alex for your help!

ps. I am not an associate of Wywires but I am a very satisfied customer!


----------



## johnjen

An added bit of info.
I use the Caig DeOxit Pro Gold (and have for several decades) to clean all of my cable connections.
I also use it on Simms, Dimms, usb cables, ethernet cables, just about everything that carries voltages and plugs in.

And a yearly cleaning is not to often.

JJ


----------



## VocaloidDude (May 29, 2018)

Spoiler











HD800 and Vostok Amphibian, because why not.


----------



## uncletim

Has anyone tried the Lyr3?


----------



## RCBinTN

johnjen said:


> An added bit of info.
> I use the Caig DeOxit Pro Gold (and have for several decades) to clean all of my cable connections.
> I also use it on Simms, Dimms, usb cables, ethernet cables, just about everything that carries voltages and plugs in.
> 
> ...


But remember, sports fans, JJ is not disconnecting the cables from his HD800...they are hardwired.


----------



## orangefridge

Has anyone compared the Dangerous Source headphone out to the HD800 dedicated amp?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

VocaloidDude said:


> Just got the Magni 3. Holy crap did that sound ever beef up. When it was just on the Magni 2 it sounded a bit thin. I'm listening to By The Throat by Ben Frost. The envelopment and clarity of all these electronic noises is pretty awesome. It's so crystallic. And the way all the instruments are separated out and really set as if they have depth is amazing. That must be the "imaging" that people talk about when they reference these headphones. It really is amazing to listen to music on headphones and listen to the depth of the recording. Even the supposed down side to these headphones, being able to hear the "poor quality" on certain recordings I find fascinating.


Glad you're enjoying them!!! What your describing is why people are able to just put music on, listen, and be totally content. My aunt told me about "back in the day" she would put a YES record on, plug headphones in and just lay on the carpet and listen. My parents generation (they're in their 60's now) knew what great sound was. In my opinion it was the demand for a device that could carry 1000 songs on it (MP3 players) that killed sound quality for future generations ears. This is why young people have this audible awakening when they hear what sound actually should sound like... Its such an awesome moment.

Be content now. But know there is still much more you can achieve with the HD800 if you plan to go farther.


----------



## PinkyPowers

The Cayin iHA-6 is a smashing amp, and brings out the musicality of the HD800 quite well. 

Haven't listened to it much yet. But so far, very impressive.


----------



## johnjen

RCBinTN said:


> But remember, sports fans, JJ is not disconnecting the cables from his HD800...they are hardwired.


This is very true.
Long ago those itty bitty tiny jumper wires and connectors were removed and a much beefier (and shorter) cable installed.

This is in keeping with my long term proclivity to go overboard on removing electrical resistance in speaker and headphone connections to the amp, even if the differences seem to be as fine as frog hairs.

I notice the differences in *LEDI* (Leading Edge Dynamic Impact) and the acoustic phenomena I call *Coupling*.
Both of which are high on my list of desirable acoustic attributes.

And of late I've been using nano gold/silver in shark oil as a contact enhancer and really like the results even more so than just Pro Gold, or Stabilent 22, or Silclear.
But then I've been playing with contact enhancers for a long time now, which I see as the flip side of just cleaning the contacts.

JJ


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

TYATYA said:


> Zero stress on cable. Remove and install the cable daily will cause wear off the coating on contact pins, which applied for improve electric transfering


This looks striking. How did you turn the HD800 into black?


----------



## TYATYA

WilliamLeonhart said:


> This looks striking. How did you turn the HD800 into black?


No, it is HD800s and stock color is black


----------



## RCBinTN

MTMECraig said:


> In my opinion it was the demand for a device that could carry 1000 songs on it (MP3 players) that killed sound quality for future generations ears. This is why young people have this audible awakening when they hear what sound actually should sound like... Its such an awesome moment.



Aye, the advent of compressed, lossy digital music!

My son-in-law listens to music from his phone.
One day, I loaned him my AK240 that contains 16/44.1 FLAC music. 
The look on his face was precious...it was an illuminating realization for the dear boy!


----------



## bearFNF

RCBinTN said:


> Aye, the advent of compressed, lossy digital music!
> 
> My son-in-law listens to music from his phone.
> One day, I loaned him my AK240 that contains 16/44.1 FLAC music.
> The look on his face was precious...it was an illuminating realization for the dear boy!


Have done mini meets at work with some "just out of college" new hires and got the same reaction. I have given them guidance in their upgrade path now.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

bearFNF said:


> Have done mini meets at work with some "just out of college" new hires and got the same reaction. I have given them guidance in their upgrade path now.


GOOD! I love getting that reaction from people I play music to. You get the feeling like you enlightened them ha. 

The HD800 is such a special can to play for people that have never experienced "good sound". The spaciousness and speed is so excellent.


----------



## VocaloidDude

Alright, I bit the bullet. I ordered the Sennheiser HDVA 600. Will report back with impressions by Wednesday, hopefully.


----------



## johnjen

I just finished modding my 'B' set of 800's and listened to them just now.

I think this newer set will eclipse my 'A' set, at least if my very preliminary impression holds up.

And once they settle in I'll measure them both and compare their differences.

Thus far the 'B' set have exceeded my expectations, but it's still early in the evaluation.

JJ


----------



## VocaloidDude

Scratch that. I just found out you can get the same amp for much cheaper. Cancelled my order, probably will need to order again when I get my refund. So not going to get it by Wednesday most likely.


----------



## treebug

VocaloidDude said:


> Alright, I bit the bullet. I ordered the Sennheiser HDVA 600. Will report back with impressions by Wednesday, hopefully.



Good choice!


----------



## streamline

I did a lot of research and got a Vali 2, along with a larger than usual assortment of tubes. The Vali 2 with vintage bugle boy is so sweet and musical. My HD800 has the SDR mod and with this combo I'm not bothered by any treble peaks at all. The other amps I have on hand are a Mjolnir 1 and Benchmark DAC1 Pre. While I can recognize the superior technicalities of the SS amps, it's also very easy to see why so many people prefer good tubes with HD800 -- it's just so much more organic and engaging, without going too warm and gooey. So count me another Vali 2 convert -- for $125 (used+vintage tube) it's such a deal.


----------



## wazzupi

I just bought a used HD800 and was looking to change cables/Pads also it has a 44000 serial number so its relativily new right ? (under 2 years old) ? any suggestions recommendations would be greatly appreciated !


----------



## Tranman409

OldSkool said:


> If Sennheiser won't cover the cable under warranty, shoot me a PM. I have a very good, stock HD800 cable that I will happily send you.
> 
> In the spirit of Head-Fi...just paying it forward.
> 
> Cheers.



Can't thank you enough for this. The cable came in today and will be extremely careful to make sure it doesn't happen again. I will pay it forward when I see an opportunity


----------



## pietcux

wazzupi said:


> I just bought a used HD800 and was looking to change cables/Pads also it has a 44000 serial number so its relativily new right ? (under 2 years old) ? any suggestions recommendations would be greatly appreciated !


I did stick to the original pads. I replaced them on my used 7 year old unit plus the headband pad. On the cable side I took a Forzaaudioworks Hybrid Noir 1,5m terminated in 4.4mm Pentacon to be able to run them balanced from my Sony WM1A DAP. I also installed the SDR mod from @Sorrodje. That one creates very nice reduction of the nasty treble spike of the HD800 which can bother with some records. It is easy to apply, took me less than 15 minutes.


----------



## wazzupi

pietcux said:


> I did stick to the original pads. I replaced them on my used 7 year old unit plus the headband pad. On the cable side I took a Forzaaudioworks Hybrid Noir 1,5m terminated in 4.4mm Pentacon to be able to run them balanced from my Sony WM1A DAP. I also installed the SDR mod from @Sorrodje. That one creates very nice reduction of the nasty treble spike of the HD800 which can bother with some records. It is easy to apply, took me less than 15 minutes.


Thank you


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

streamline said:


> I did a lot of research and got a Vali 2, along with a larger than usual assortment of tubes. The Vali 2 with vintage bugle boy is so sweet and musical. My HD800 has the SDR mod and with this combo I'm not bothered by any treble peaks at all. The other amps I have on hand are a Mjolnir 1 and Benchmark DAC1 Pre. While I can recognize the superior technicalities of the SS amps, it's also very easy to see why so many people prefer good tubes with HD800 -- it's just so much more organic and engaging, without going too warm and gooey. So count me another Vali 2 convert -- for $125 (used+vintage tube) it's such a deal.


I prefer my "Little Dot clone", but the Vali 2 is a good choice especially at the price you got. One thing special about the Vali 2 is that it can drive low-imp cans without any problem, something my tube amp cannot do. Because your HD800 is modded I'm not sure how the Vali 2 will factor in removing the peak, but on my Vali 2+ with a Siemen tube it was still audible, though barely so.


----------



## VocaloidDude

Just ordered the SENNHEISER HDVA600 for 600 dollars.


----------



## VocaloidDude

Just hooked up the Sennheiser HDVA 600. Oh my god, the sound difference is incredible, coming from the Magni 3. It just totally opened up the sound. It sounds so spacious and vibrant, it has so much breath. That really is incredible.

I'm listening to the Chopin Nocturnes by Arthur Rubinstein.


----------



## pietcux

VocaloidDude said:


> Just hooked up the Sennheiser HDVA 600. Oh my god, the sound difference is incredible, coming from the Magni 3. It just totally opened up the sound. It sounds so spacious and vibrant, it has so much breath. That really is incredible.
> 
> I'm listening to the Chopin Nocturnes by Arthur Rubinstein.


Now you owe me a beer or two! Glad you like the HDVA 600.


----------



## TYATYA

VocaloidDude said:


> Just hooked up the Sennheiser HDVA 600. Oh my god, the sound difference is incredible, coming from the Magni 3. It just totally opened up the sound. It sounds so spacious and vibrant, it has so much breath. That really is incredible.
> 
> I'm listening to the Chopin Nocturnes by Arthur Rubinstein.



Bought it $600, hope it is none repaired before so that u have full property of the amp.
Hdva600 is same as hdvd800 in sound performance. I cant find a difference.
It just lack of dac section in compare but with much reduction of cost.
With a good analog source, this amp will return every detail in output. Still have abit loss of detail if source good as A&U sp1000 dap (I think that is nature when a longer audio path)


----------



## VocaloidDude

TYATYA said:


> Bought it $600, hope it is none repaired before so that u have full property of the amp.
> Hdva600 is same as hdvd800 in sound performance. I cant find a difference.
> It just lack of dac section in compare but with much reduction of cost.
> With a good analog source, this amp will return every detail in output. Still have abit loss of detail if source good as A&U sp1000 dap (I think that is nature when a longer audio path)


I bought it new, not used.


----------



## TYATYA

VocaloidDude said:


> I bought it new, not used.


OMG it was just fraction of price, so I though it was an used unit 
So well paid


----------



## VocaloidDude

I just use a Modi as my DAC. I don't need higher khz. The human ear can't hear that high.


----------



## wazzupi

VocaloidDude said:


> I just use a Modi as my DAC. I don't need higher khz. The human ear can't hear that high.


that's not how a dac works.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

VocaloidDude said:


> I just use a Modi as my DAC. I don't need higher khz. The human ear can't hear that high.


Here we go again...


----------



## Evshrug

VocaloidDude said:


> Just hooked up the Sennheiser HDVA 600. Oh my god, the sound difference is incredible, coming from the Magni 3. It just totally opened up the sound. It sounds so spacious and vibrant, it has so much breath. That really is incredible.
> 
> I'm listening to the Chopin Nocturnes by Arthur Rubinstein.



Really glad to hear you’re having fun, and hearing an improvement! How would you explain the difference to a you from a few weeks ago, who argues that a Magni is already “good enough” in one attribute?


----------



## VocaloidDude

Evshrug said:


> Really glad to hear you’re having fun, and hearing an improvement! How would you explain the difference to a you from a few weeks ago, who argues that a Magni is already “good enough” in one attribute?


I would have to experience it myself.


----------



## VocaloidDude

Listening to Virgins by Tim Hecker. This is so sick.


----------



## TYATYA (Jun 9, 2018)

VocaloidDude said:


> Listening to Virgins by Tim Hecker. This is so sick.


I dont feel that album to show quality of audio stuff. Maybe that is not my taste.
Btw if you're using Tidal hifi, search "1986!" and find a Playlist 1986! There are many goods to listen to as The way it is, The next time I fall, Typical male, Human, Higher love, If you leave, I've been losing u, The lady in red....


----------



## rutter

VocaloidDude said:


> I just use a Modi as my DAC. I don't need higher khz. The human ear can't hear that high.



Are you able to use it balanced with the Modi? I'm confused. I looked at an image of its backside and the only way to connect to a Modi is labeled as unbalanced.


----------



## VocaloidDude

TYATYA said:


> I dont feel that album to show quality of audio stuff. Maybe that is not my state.
> Btw if you're using Tidal hifi, search "1986!" and find a Playlist 1986! There are many goods to listen to as The way it is, The next time I fall, Typical male, Human, I've been losing u, The lady in red....


It definitely does.


----------



## VocaloidDude

rutter said:


> Are you able to use it balanced with the Modi? I'm confused. I looked at an image of its backside and the only way to connect to a Modi is labeled as unbalanced.


I don't use balance cables.


----------



## pietcux

rutter said:


> Are you able to use it balanced with the Modi? I'm confused. I looked at an image of its backside and the only way to connect to a Modi is labeled as unbalanced.


He has to connect unbalanced. The HDVA 600 manual states that the signal then gets balanced inside the input stage.


----------



## rutter

Yea, I think the DAC itself needs to be balanced. Hmmm. This should work with a Loki equalizer though, so that's a plus. Might consider it myself. Is this a smart purchase in 2018?



pietcux said:


> He has to connect unbalanced. The HDVA 600 manual states that the signal then gets balanced inside the input stage.



So it could still be balanced? o.O


----------



## Evshrug

VocaloidDude said:


> I would have to experience it myself.



Ok! Same thing with regards to DACs 

Loudness is one attribute of amplification, but as you experienced, there is also a lot of other stuff that’s harder to describe, like that vibrancy, breath, and a “totally opened up” sound that you mentioned.

Sample rate is also one attribute of digital to analog conversion, but there’s also a lot of other stuff you would have to experience for yourself.

You know, take care of your budget and recover from spending well on an HDVA 600 first, and I also would probably have upgraded my Amp first, but trying out a Mid-Fi or Hi-Fi DAC at some point would also be worth experiencing some day 



VocaloidDude said:


> Listening to Virgins by Tim Hecker. This is so sick.


The first track “Prism” is pretty interesting! Have you ever listened to experimental soundscape stuff by Amon Tobin or Yosi Horikawa before? Good stuff there too! I love to chill out to some Yosi Horikawa.


----------



## Evshrug (Jun 9, 2018)

rutter said:


> So it could still be balanced? o.O



Yes, the HDVA 600 divides the channels, and then the whole amplification stage is symmetrical (balanced) up until the final output, though the single-ended outputs have an extra stage to convert the circuit.

The HDV 820 is like this too, with digital, analog balanced, and analog unbalanced inputs. However, the circuit design is different, and there are more balanced outputs. Both will play from balanced and unbalanced outputs at the same time, though! Party trick... literally.


----------



## rutter

Any reason to buy it over the Questyle CMA400i?


----------



## VocaloidDude

Evshrug said:


> Ok! Same thing with regards to DACs
> 
> Loudness is one attribute of amplification, but as you experienced, there is also a lot of other stuff that’s harder to describe, like that vibrancy, breath, and a “totally opened up” sound that you mentioned.
> 
> ...


I like Amon Tobin. I'm not familiar with Yosi Horikawa.


----------



## pietcux

rutter said:


> Yea, I think the DAC itself needs to be balanced. Hmmm. This should work with a Loki equalizer though, so that's a plus. Might consider it myself. Is this a smart purchase in 2018?
> 
> 
> 
> So it could still be balanced? o.O


I run my HD650/660S balanced from it and it makes a huge difference to unbalanced. Source is the unbalanced line out of my Asus Xonar STX soundcard.


----------



## pietcux

rutter said:


> Any reason to buy it over the Questyle CMA400i?


The Questyle CMA400i looks good, you might want to do such a comparison for us. It is made in China, the Sennheiser is made in Germany. This explains part of the price differences. But says nothing about the sound.


----------



## TYATYA

rutter said:


> Yea, I think the DAC itself needs to be balanced. Hmmm. This should work with a Loki equalizer though, so that's a plus. Might consider it myself. Is this a smart purchase in 2018?
> 
> 
> 
> So it could still be balanced? o.O



I think it is same case as when feed hdvd800 by RCA cable. Inside the amp and untill to headphone can be bal., from amp to source is not. 
Bal from source to amp, to  headphone is really balance. This path give best sq, easily see the difference


----------



## rutter

Hmmm. The HDVD600 lacks specs about its power output. I've also read it might not be good with low impedance headphones? If the DAC being balanced as well really makes a difference then the CMA400i being two in one should yield better sound, although even balanced vs unbalanced is up in the air according to many. Another thing you'd get with the CMA400i is probably better support with the initial file quality of the music, if I'm getting that correct. The thing is I was impressed by the description of the difference the HDVD600 made in comparison to a Magni 3, which is what I'm currently using too. I'd imagine the 400i making a similar difference yet I have experience with the 600i and was unimpressed. The HDVD600 also seems to be becoming discontinued.


----------



## rutter

What about Mjolnir 2? Why recommend the HDVD600 over it?


----------



## Evshrug (Jun 9, 2018)

VocaloidDude said:


> I like Amon Tobin. I'm not familiar with Yosi Horikawa.


Cool! I love finding new artists, you’ll probably like Horikawa 



pietcux said:


> I run my HD650/660S balanced from it and it makes a huge difference to unbalanced. Source is the unbalanced line out of my Asus Xonar STX soundcard.





rutter said:


> Hmmm. The HDVD600 lacks specs about its power output. I've also read it might not be good with low impedance headphones? If the DAC being balanced as well really makes a difference then the CMA400i being two in one should yield better sound, although even balanced vs unbalanced is up in the air according to many. Another thing you'd get with the CMA400i is probably better support with the initial file quality of the music, if I'm getting that correct. The thing is I was impressed by the description of the difference the HDVA 600 made in comparison to a Magni 3, which is what I'm currently using too. I'd imagine the 400i making a similar difference yet I have experience with the 600i and was unimpressed. The HDVD600 also seems to be becoming discontinued.



Sennheiser’s website says you can still use the HDVA 600 with low impedance headphones because it has a 5 stage variable gain factor. There is some debate about the amp’s output impedence with a headphone, engineering stuff like higher output impedence yields better stability but some quite a rule of thumb that your headphone should have 8x the impedence of the amp’s output, while others say that too little amp output impedence sounds overdampened and clinical... but that’s also something you should hear for yourself to make up your own mind. Turn down the gain and be careful with the volume, and at least you won’t hurt your headphones (or ears).

A balanced amp is still beneficial even if the source is unbalanced, though balanced all the way through would still provide the greatest benefit. I certainly enjoy my HDV 820 through an unbalanced analog feed from my DAP and DSP, but it’s cleaner-sounding through USB and optical input (because the HDV 820 has a well-implemented DAC inside). That could be that the HDV 820’s DAC is better than my DSP and DAP’s DACs, combined with the balanced nature of the HDV 820’s DAC and the short signal path, but I can’t tell from experience because I don’t have the HDV 820’s DAC outside the case and reconfigured to test balanced and unbalanced. I still enjoy gaming with the GSX 1000 connected to the unbalanced input of my HDV 820. I don’t get too hung up on it...

My HD 800, plus my short aftermarket Pentaconn balanced headphone cable (by Wireworld), into the HDV 820, connected to my Mac running Amarra Luxe 4 (by Sonic Studio), is simply the best sounding setup I have. Took me 9 years since starting on Head-Fi to have everything dialed in like I do now, and the tweaking will never end!


----------



## Evshrug

rutter said:


> Any reason to buy it over the Questyle CMA400i?





rutter said:


> What about Mjolnir 2? Why recommend the HDVD600 over it?



Not that I don’t know, but I literally can’t say.


----------



## VocaloidDude

What does an expensive DAC actually do? Apparently a DAC changes the signal from a digital to an analog sound. I have no idea what that means considering it's just electricity going through a chord either way.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Why don't you go to the introductions/help forum and ask this question there. It's not relevant to the HD800 thread, nor is this thread going to be particularly enlightening to you before you learn more about DACs.


----------



## Thenewguy007

VocaloidDude said:


> What does an expensive DAC actually do? Apparently a DAC changes the signal from a digital to an analog sound. I have no idea what that means considering it's just electricity going through a chord either way.



Well I compared the Yggdrasil to a mid tier DAC with a flip of a switch & the difference was with the mid tier DAC, everything sounded a few decibels quieter when both DACs were volume matched.
Upping the volume on the mid tier DAC to try & match the loudness I was hearing with all the instrumentals & vocals on the Yggy, just made everything way too loud, everything just breaks up & starts sounding  screechingly loud.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

VocaloidDude said:


> What does an expensive DAC actually do? Apparently a DAC changes the signal from a digital to an analog sound. I have no idea what that means considering it's just electricity going through a chord either way.


What @bosiemoncrieff said is pretty much the smartest decision to help you with dacs/amps/headphones ect. 

That way it can help you learn about everything you have talked about, without all the preconceived notions about them all. 

To keep to the HD800 though- my whole drive home I was thinking about getting home, firing up the tube amp, taking a shower, and then just melting into my chair listening to the HD800 before I want to fall asleep. 

Perfect end to my perfect day with friends  I just had. I hope you all enjoy your night!


----------



## Evshrug (Jun 11, 2018)

VocaloidDude said:


> What does an expensive DAC actually do? Apparently a DAC changes the signal from a digital to an analog sound. I have no idea what that means considering it's just electricity going through a chord either way.



As in all things, not all DACs have the same flavor or above-average performance for the price level, BUT while the Modi is a good baseline for a DAC (better than many laptops/phones/etc), there are improvements possible. And, again, it’s easy to hear (if the upgrade jump is big enough) but hard to quantify in specs and numbers.

A DAC is a little math calculator, applying 1’s and 0’s (which are never exactly sent error-free, “bit perfect” as a concept is a myth) to algebraic algorithms, while applying filters and error-correction, and more. Just like enterprise computers use error correcting CPUs and ECC RAM, accuracy is the main goal; and just like anti-aliasing for games, a DAC uses filters to smooth the dithered “steps” of the 1&0 coordinates into something approximating analog sine curves. Also, there is some amplification that occurs in a DAC as well (necessary to drive the circuit!), so a cleaner implementation of that pays dividends down the line to the rest of the audio chain, and also can determine the voltage output (which might partially explain the loudness difference heard by others). There’s more to it than that (I’m not a DAC engineer), but hopefully that conveys how a DAC is much more like a computer than a simple electrical circuit, and some areas for improvement.

What are the audible results/benefits of better DACs? Most DACs will get the pitch right, but the timbre realism goes up with better DACs. One easy place to hear this is in Cymbals, how they can go from something that sounds like a digital note or effect into a more realistic shimmering instrument. That “digital hash” on lower quality DACs can translate to the screechy, unrefined, fatiguing sound, whereas better DACs can sound more refined without resorting to blunting the sound. Tiny details that our brains use to determine spacial placement come into focus, and complex passages with a lot of notes and instruments are easier to separate and keep track of... it’s not so much that it’s pulling out more resolution from your audio files, but that they’re portrayed more accurately. I can’t point to why, because I’m always learning and still on my journey, but music also sounds more lively, exciting, and “keen” for lack of a better word compared to the duller, flat sound I get when I go back to a downgrade.

Though it may be unusual to describe this in a thread about a headphone that only diehard audio fans would buy, I like to give help when I find opportunity. Just curious, what encouraged you to buy an HD 800? For me, it was due to a search for a realistic, transparent sound which would also have a great “holographic” sense of things around me instead of an audio universe crammed inside my head (lol), and it came after many years of trying out $100 and $200 headphones (and a trip to CanJam where I got to demo pretty much all the best headphones on the market). I also felt like the HD 800 was going to be easier to plug and play with many more amp options than a STAX, though I have a vintage one of those.


----------



## wazzupi

Evshrug said:


> As in all things, not all DACs have the same flavor or above-average performance for the price level, BUT while the Modi is a good baseline for a DAC (better than many laptops/phones/etc), there are improvements possible. And, again, it’s easy to hear (if the upgrade jump is big enough) but hard to quantify in specs and numbers.
> 
> A DAC is a little math calculator, applying 1’s and 0’s (which are never exactly sent error-free, “bit perfect” as a concept is a myth) to algebraic algorithms, while applying filters and error-correction, and more. Just like enterprise computers use error correcting CPUs and ECC RAM, accuracy is the main goal; and just like anti-aliasing for games, a DAC uses filters to smooth the dithered “steps” of the 1&0 coordinates into something approximating analog sine curves. Also, there is some amplification that occurs in a DAC as well (necessary to drive the circuit!), so a cleaner implementation of that pays dividends down the line to the rest of the audio chain, and also can determine the voltage output (which might partially explain the loudness difference heard by others). There’s more to it than that (I’m not a DAC engineer), but hopefully that conveys how a DAC is much more like a computer than a simple electrical circuit, and some areas for improvement.
> 
> ...


I own Blackwood auteurs and i believe they have a better 3d holo soundstage of course i don't know when you went etc just teasing a bit i guess.


----------



## Evshrug (Jun 11, 2018)

wazzupi said:


> I own Blackwood auteurs and i believe they have a better 3d holo soundstage of course i don't know when you went etc just teasing a bit i guess.



Good natured teasing is fine 

I first went to RMAF in 2015, bought my HD 800 in 2016, and the ZMF Auteur was released later – I did see it at CanJam NYC this year, but I didn’t get a chance to really evaluate.

Also, I’ll allow that what defines “better” soundstage for you might not be what I think of as “better.” Also, sometimes I enjoy a headphone so much that I don’t care if it seems smaller or more “in my head” than the HD 800, but the HD 800 was one I kept coming back to and finding really spine-shiveringly enjoyable on my setup while also adaptable for my uses (music, gaming, surround DSPs, gear evaluation). Glad neither of us regret our purchases, and there’s definitely room for both in a collection!


----------



## wazzupi

Evshrug said:


> Good natured teasing is fine
> 
> I first went to RMAF in 2015, bought my HD 800 in 2016, and the ZMF Auteur was released later – I did see it at CanJam NYC this year, but I didn’t get a chance to really evaluate.
> 
> Also, I’ll allow that what defines “better” soundstage for you might not be what I think of as “better.” Also, sometimes I enjoy a headphone so much that I don’t care if it seems smaller or more “in my head” than the HD 800, but the HD 800 was one I kept coming back to and finding really spine-shiveringly enjoyable on my setup while also adaptable for my uses (music, gaming, surround DSPs, gear evaluation). Glad neither of us regret our purchases, and there’s definitely room for both in a collection!


I recently got a bargain on my hd800 on letgo for 500 bucks 44k serial number he said he received it as a gift in 2016 for Christmas.


----------



## Evshrug

wazzupi said:


> I recently got a bargain on my hd800 on letgo for 500 bucks 44k serial number he said he received it as a gift in 2016 for Christmas.


Nice gift! If the Auteur is anything like ZMF’s other headphones and the Auteur reviews I’ve read, then the two headphones should be a great compliment! And wow, what a nice Christmas gift for that other guy, kinda sad that he’s letting it go for so cheap... lucky you though!


----------



## pietcux

Evshrug said:


> Nice gift! If the Auteur is anything like ZMF’s other headphones and the Auteur reviews I’ve read, then the two headphones should be a great compliment! And wow, what a nice Christmas gift for that other guy, kinda sad that he’s letting it go for so cheap... lucky you though!


I bought the HDVA 600 from a fellow HeadFier for 600€. Once I got the amp, I wrote thanks for the nice deal. He responded by offerIng his HD800 for another 600€. I said yes. Added new head band padding plus new pads plus a ForzaAudioWorks Noir Hybrid 1.5m Pentaconn 4.4mm balanced cable for the use with my Sony WM1A. Then got the Super Dupont mod from @Sorrodje to tame the treble and installed it. Absolute bliss regarding sound now. Was like 1600€ total, for a perfect system I would say. Compliments my Sony Z1R perfectly.


----------



## wazzupi

pietcux said:


> I bought the HDVA 600 from a fellow HeadFier for 600€. Once I got the amp, I wrote thanks for the nice deal. He responded by offerIng his HD800 for another 600€. I said yes. Added new head band padding plus new pads plus a ForzaAudioWorks Noir Hybrid 1.5m Pentaconn 4.4mm balanced cable for the use with my Sony WM1A. Then got the Super Dupont mod from @Sorrodje to tame the treble and installed it. Absolute bliss regarding sound now. Was like 1600€ total, for a perfect system I would say. Compliments my Sony Z1R perfectly.


Where do you get the headband padding ?


----------



## pietcux

wazzupi said:


> Where do you get the headband padding ?


In the German online shop Madooma:
https://www.madooma.com/cgi-bin/cus...e&datei=kopfhoerer&beding=hd800+headband&s=ok
https://www.madooma.com/shopHP/neu_...pfpolster_fuer_HD800_Kopfhoerer_HD_800_e.html
https://www.madooma.com/shopHP/neu_...hrpolster_fuer_HD800_Kopfhoerer_HD_800_e.html
You can see the item # and maybe search in your country.


----------



## johnjen

Or you can order them from Sennheiser directly.

JJ


----------



## Evshrug (Jun 30, 2018)

pietcux said:


> I bought the HDVA 600 from a fellow HeadFier for 600€. Once I got the amp, I wrote thanks for the nice deal. He responded by offerIng his HD800 for another 600€. I said yes. Added new head band padding plus new pads plus a ForzaAudioWorks Noir Hybrid 1.5m Pentaconn 4.4mm balanced cable for the use with my Sony WM1A. Then got the Super Dupont mod from @Sorrodje to tame the treble and installed it. Absolute bliss regarding sound now. Was like 1600€ total, for a perfect system I would say. Compliments my Sony Z1R perfectly.



I bought a Wireworld Elite 1.4m Pentaconn 4.4mm balanced cable made for me... it’s the perfect length to connect to the Sennheiser HDV 820 on my desk, and hopefully the right length and lightweight to use with a DAP using 4.4mm Pentaconn one day. I’ve looked at the Sony WM1A many times (and again almost every time you talk about it, haha!) and I like what I’ve seen, and AxelCloris let me borrow his ZX300 one night (But I drained the battery, and didn’t get to listen! Aaaah!). However, it would probably be more budget friendly for me to just pick up the new AM3P module from FiiO for my X7. I like using Pentaconn for both desktop and portable use.

Though it’s more expensive than the Sennheiser Pentaconn cable, I like the custom length and sound quality I’m hearing in my Wireworld (pros and cons). I don’t feel the need to do a Full Super Dupont mod at all (or even just the little felt dampeners), though I like what Sennheiser did with the HD 800 S... I’m hoping to set aside enough funds to get an HD 820 one day, as I would enjoy the utility as my wife & I both work from home and the neighbors have awful taste in music (headaches!!).


----------



## Slashn77

$500 for a hd800?? If I could only be so lucky! 
Running hd650’s at my desk and CA Cascades portable but still had to get some 599 for gaming because 650’s weren’t that impressive.

Been looking for a while for a hd800 here in classifieds for the right price for a nice upgrade for my desk and also for use as a great set of PC gaming cans. No boomy bass all soundstage imaging to hear them footsteps in gaming with battlefield pubg fortnite fallout etc.

Almost pulled the trigger on hd 700’s for all the above uses for around $500 new but have been waiting and waiting for the 800’s (so I don’t have any regrets putting money into 700’s)
But it’s hard to find 800’s in decent shape around $600 in a while or theyre already scooped up


----------



## pietcux

Slashn77 said:


> $500 for a hd800?? If I could only be so lucky!
> Running hd650’s at my desk and CA Cascades portable but still had to get some 599 for gaming because 650’s weren’t that impressive.
> 
> Been looking for a while for a hd800 here in classifieds for the right price for a nice upgrade for my desk and also for use as a great set of PC gaming cans. No boomy bass all soundstage imaging to hear them footsteps in gaming with battlefield pubg fortnite fallout etc.
> ...


When the used HD800 looks kind wasted, all you need is new headband padding plus new earpds. Roughly 140€. The risk  that the drivers are defect is rather low.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Slashn77 said:


> $500 for a hd800?? If I could only be so lucky!
> Running hd650’s at my desk and CA Cascades portable but still had to get some 599 for gaming because 650’s weren’t that impressive.
> 
> Been looking for a while for a hd800 here in classifieds for the right price for a nice upgrade for my desk and also for use as a great set of PC gaming cans. No boomy bass all soundstage imaging to hear them footsteps in gaming with battlefield pubg fortnite fallout etc.
> ...


In my country well used HD800 cost around $700. Not a bad price for me, but the pads almost always need replacing


----------



## DavidA

Slashn77 said:


> $500 for a hd800?? If I could only be so lucky!
> Running hd650’s at my desk and CA Cascades portable but still had to get some 599 for gaming because 650’s weren’t that impressive.
> 
> Been looking for a while for a hd800 here in classifieds for the right price for a nice upgrade for my desk and also for use as a great set of PC gaming cans. No boomy bass all soundstage imaging to hear them footsteps in gaming with battlefield pubg fortnite fallout etc.
> ...



While I have both the HD800, HD700 and a few other headphones for gaming its been the HD700, mainly because its easier to drive with a sound card and in a pinch even the on-board audio of a laptop/desktop will drive the HD700 to listening levels while they will struggle with the HD800 due to the slightly higher impedance.


----------



## Slashn77

DavidA said:


> While I have both the HD800, HD700 and a few other headphones for gaming its been the HD700, mainly because its easier to drive with a sound card and in a pinch even the on-board audio of a laptop/desktop will drive the HD700 to listening levels while they will struggle with the HD800 due to the slightly higher impedance.


What do you think about the difference with gaming? 
I still use a Schiit stack to plug my headphones in while gaming(I only game on PC)


----------



## DavidA

Slashn77 said:


> What do you think about the difference with gaming?
> I still use a Schiit stack to plug my headphones in while gaming(I only game on PC)


I used to use a Asus STX sound card when I was playing a lot but have since moved on from gaming since I'm getting older (retired from work) and my GF takes up most of my time these days playing golf, having friends over of dinner/wine.

The biggest difference to me between the HD700 and HD800 for gaming is I've never like the tone of the HD800 from any sound card or built-in sound chip and I've only really enjoyed the HD800 with a tube amp while the HD700 can sound quite good with some of the warmer SS amps (Polaris, G-109, HA-501).  If your Schiit stack is Modi MB and Magni3 then I think the HD800 might sound decent/good playing games but its not something that I've tried so YMMV.  I've tried my HD800 with a BH Crack and played games but I still like the HD700 out of the STX better since the positional audio was better to me.


----------



## Slashn77

DavidA said:


> I used to use a Asus STX sound card when I was playing a lot but have since moved on from gaming since I'm getting older (retired from work) and my GF takes up most of my time these days playing golf, having friends over of dinner/wine.
> 
> The biggest difference to me between the HD700 and HD800 for gaming is I've never like the tone of the HD800 from any sound card or built-in sound chip and I've only really enjoyed the HD800 with a tube amp while the HD700 can sound quite good with some of the warmer SS amps (Polaris, G-109, HA-501).  If your Schiit stack is Modi MB and Magni3 then I think the HD800 might sound decent/good playing games but its not something that I've tried so YMMV.  I've tried my HD800 with a BH Crack and played games but I still like the HD700 out of the STX better since the positional audio was better to me.


Ok thanks for the insight. Maybe I will get the 700’s as they seem more comfortable not that the 800’s aren’t comfortable but 700’s are slimmer profile.
I will have to keep an eye out because I don’t want to buy both and have a $500 hd700 for gaming only if they’re underwhelming when it comes down to music when I could get the 800 and do both.
Plus if I were to get the 800 I would definitely get an upgraded amp from modi2 and magni3 to a tube or probably hybrid tube since I’ve never owned or used a tube amp before.
Some of these tube amps are very big or are pretty tall with the tubes sticking out and would take up too much desk space. Thinking maybe a schiit vali 2 hybrid amp but I have to find the right 800s first


----------



## DavidA

Slashn77 said:


> Ok thanks for the insight. Maybe I will get the 700’s as they seem more comfortable not that the 800’s aren’t comfortable but 700’s are slimmer profile.
> I will have to keep an eye out because I don’t want to buy both and have a $500 hd700 for gaming only if they’re underwhelming when it comes down to music when I could get the 800 and do both.
> Plus if I were to get the 800 I would definitely get an upgraded amp from modi2 and magni3 to a tube or probably hybrid tube since I’ve never owned or used a tube amp before.
> Some of these tube amps are very big or are pretty tall with the tubes sticking out and would take up too much desk space. Thinking maybe a schiit vali 2 hybrid amp but I have to find the right 800s first



The HD800 doesn't really sound all that great with some of the under $500 amps that I've tried it with and to me a BH Crack with a few mods and decent tubes is about the minimum to get the HD800 to perform while the HD700 is easily driven by even a cheap Fiio X3 and it sound quite good to me and my old GF who used to use it almost daily when walking the dog.  I take it that you are not in the US since the HD700 is normally around $420 (Amazon) these days and some of my friends got new ones for $375.
The Magni3 and HD800 is not a bad pairing and I think the Magni3 its one of the best amps under $250 these days but I'd still recommend a decent tube (OTL) amp for the HD800 but this is just my preference.


----------



## Slashn77

DavidA said:


> The HD800 doesn't really sound all that great with some of the under $500 amps that I've tried it with and to me a BH Crack with a few mods and decent tubes is about the minimum to get the HD800 to perform while the HD700 is easily driven by even a cheap Fiio X3 and it sound quite good to me and my old GF who used to use it almost daily when walking the dog.  I take it that you are not in the US since the HD700 is normally around $420 (Amazon) these days and some of my friends got new ones for $375.
> The Magni3 and HD800 is not a bad pairing and I think the Magni3 its one of the best amps under $250 these days but I'd still recommend a decent tube (OTL) amp for the HD800 but this is just my preference.


I actually am in the USA (MI) I am just new (almost 2 years) to the hobby as my first passion is PC gaming. 
Then I got HD650’s with modi2 magni2 (now magni 3 and Mayflower ARC when I’m on my laptop in my lazy boy because it’s a compact dac/amp combo and got tidal lossless/masters and discovered music without $30 ear buds.
Then I got CA Lyra II and cascades with an ifi xdsd for portable use on my deck in the backyard listening to edm and 90’s 
hip hop.
So I am completely new to tube amps but want to upgrade from 650’s as it is very nice but not my ideal sound signature for all different genres(want the focal elex or clears or 800s but I was told focal clears are amazing but wouldn’t be ideal for my duo purpose of music and gaming) 
Once I find the right headphone I would spend $600 new or used on the right dac and amp for the headphones when listening to music but then plugging them into my magni for great imaging and soundstage gaming


----------



## rutter (Jun 13, 2018)

Who the hell told you that the Focal Clear would be bad for gaming, lol? If you like it for music it'll be fine for gaming. That's so pretentious. I happen to not like it for music but the notion that it "wouldn’t be ideal for a duo purpose of music and gaming" is asinine. If you care so much for imaging and soundstage I get the impression upgrading the amplifier is more important than upgrading the DAC. If you really place a ton of weight on imagining and soundstage for gaming then you pretty much have to get either the HD800 or HD800S. I've listened to the three Focals, heard three Audezes, Aeon Flow Open, and have the most experience with a Hifiman Edition X v2 (which might edge the others in this respect and it's still mediocre in an absolute sense, especially from a Schiit stack [have the Modi Multibit with a Magni 3]). Imaging and soundstage is supposed to be something noteworthy pretty much only on the HD800 headphones. Other soundstage+imaging competitors are either obscure or even more expensive.

Here's another question. One shot at it, HD800 or HD800S?


----------



## DavidA

Slashn77 said:


> I actually am in the USA (MI) I am just new (almost 2 years) to the hobby as my first passion is PC gaming.
> Then I got HD650’s with modi2 magni2 (now magni 3 and Mayflower ARC when I’m on my laptop in my lazy boy because it’s a compact dac/amp combo and got tidal lossless/masters and discovered music without $30 ear buds.
> Then I got CA Lyra II and cascades with an ifi xdsd for portable use on my deck in the backyard listening to edm and 90’s
> hip hop.
> ...


If you can keep the HD650 and get other headphones I'd suggest going that route since there are many who sell their HD650 and end up buying them again, some for the 3rd or 4th time.  I do agree that for gaming they are meh but for music they are hard to beat at times with the right amp.  One friend considers the HD650 her end game headphone along with a EC ZDS and I'd say its a great pairing but since I like many genres its not quite a "do it all" headphone/amp combo for me.  I actually find the HD800 not a great all around headphone since it does make some tracks a bit weird sounding due to the overly wide sound stage, especially some vocal centric tracks and with some tracks the mids are just a bit too recessed IMO.  

The HD700 has its flaws also like the HD800 in that the mids are too recessed at times and for some the 6khz peak is annoying but to many its not a problem and since its sound stage is not as exaggerated as the HD800 its not as weird sounding with most vocal tracks to me.  For gaming the flaws are not really an issue for me and they are one of the most comfortable headphones IMO while the HD800 is almost as good in comfort but I've noticed that some of my friends complain that its uncomfortable due to a hot spot on the top of their head which I've also heard mentioned by another in this thread a while back.

For EDM and other fast paced genres I usually go with a planar like HE560, LCD-2/3 or similar since they also have a nice bass kick to me.  Another headphone that I've used for gaming is the K7XX, cheaper and slightly easier to drive than the HD800 to me but its not the most musical IMO.


----------



## Slashn77 (Jun 13, 2018)

rutter said:


> Who the hell told you that the Focal Clear would be bad for gaming, lol? If you like it for music it'll be fine for gaming. That's so pretentious. I happen to not like it for music but the notion that it "wouldn’t be ideal for a duo purpose of music and gaming" is asinine. If you care so much for imaging and soundstage I get the impression upgrading the amplifier is more important than upgrading the DAC. If you really place a ton of weight on imagining and soundstage for gaming then you pretty much have to get either the HD800 or HD800S. I've listened to the three Focals, heard three Audezes, Aeon Flow Open, and have the most experience with a Hifiman Edition X v2 (which might edge the others in this respect and it's still mediocre in an absolute sense, especially from a Schiit stack [have the Modi Multibit with a Magni 3]). Imaging and soundstage is supposed to be something noteworthy pretty much only on the HD800 headphones. Other soundstage+imaging competitors are either obscure or even more expensive.
> 
> Here's another question. One shot at it, HD800 or HD800S?



800S but might be a bit more than I want to spend same as the Clears from what I’ve seen in classifieds here $1100+.

Maybe the exact words were more like the focals aren’t as ‘ideal’ for gaming compared to the 800s.
Crazy wide soundstage isn’t that important for gaming(cannot be hd600 soundstage though) it is more in the treble for hearing footsteps and the imaging.

Unfortunately I have not heard either one myself and no where to audition them anywhere near me in MI so I am taking a general consensus from several reviews from reviewers I have agreed with on other headphones hearing and many people’s opinions which I know is not ideal because of how subjective this hobby is.

When it comes to dac and amps I can and plan to upgrade in the near future after I find the headphone.
I do like the focal options as well though because they can also be ran just fine from a xdsd or maybe micro black label when I am not in my office at my computer at home.

Edit to last reply while typing: I am definitely keeping my 650 not selling anything to fund this purchase


----------



## Slashn77 (Jun 13, 2018)

DavidA said:


> If you can keep the HD650 and get other headphones I'd suggest going that route since there are many who sell their HD650 and end up buying them again, some for the 3rd or 4th time.  I do agree that for gaming they are meh but for music they are hard to beat at times with the right amp.  One friend considers the HD650 her end game headphone along with a EC ZDS and I'd say its a great pairing but since I like many genres its not quite a "do it all" headphone/amp combo for me.  I actually find the HD800 not a great all around headphone since it does make some tracks a bit weird sounding due to the overly wide sound stage, especially some vocal centric tracks and with some tracks the mids are just a bit too recessed IMO.
> 
> The HD700 has its flaws also like the HD800 in that the mids are too recessed at times and for some the 6khz peak is annoying but to many its not a problem and since its sound stage is not as exaggerated as the HD800 its not as weird sounding with most vocal tracks to me.  For gaming the flaws are not really an issue for me and they are one of the most comfortable headphones IMO while the HD800 is almost as good in comfort but I've noticed that some of my friends complain that its uncomfortable due to a hot spot on the top of their head which I've also heard mentioned by another in this thread a while back.
> 
> For EDM and other fast paced genres I usually go with a planar like HE560, LCD-2/3 or similar since they also have a nice bass kick to me.  Another headphone that I've used for gaming is the K7XX, cheaper and slightly easier to drive than the HD800 to me but its not the most musical IMO.


Yeah I am not selling my 650s.
I am still waiting on my 4xx to come in end of this month to see how I like planar(not in same league as lcd2-3 but still ‘planar sound’) but I already love edm with the cascades.

Maybe I should take a closer look at the 700’s if they can really be had brand new for $400-$420 because I don’t see many used sets on here for sale much cheaper. When I look online at amazon and B&h photo I see hd700s for $497

It does sound like the 800s are going to require a lot more money put in to make them worth it which I was prepared for but maybe I should look closer for 700’s to get my feet wet but they have been given such a bad rep maybe because Sennheiser wanted $1000 for them when they dropped.


----------



## DavidA

@Slashn77, I'm one that took a chance on the HD700 and to me its one of the best bargains out there.  I think they got a bad rep from a few "reviewers" and it snow balled from there and I think there are a few "reviewers" that just parroted what they read without even hearing them but at the original asking price of $1000 I'd have to agree that they are not worth it but for anything under $600 to me they are quite competitive and at the current $400 they are a bargain IMO.  I just check Amazon and the prices have gone up to $500 again so you might want to shop around since MassDrop had them for $400 IIRC and Amazon used to have them for $422 for a while.  (might be better to ask in the HD700 thread since this is getting a little off topic from HD800)


----------



## johnjen

I agree that the 700's are WAY under rated.
I don't own a pair but I did have a chance to play with a pair and they responded well to 'adjustments' (eq, better cabling, and other more involved tweaks).
And while not as 'robust' as 800's that doesn't mean they are 2nd class HP's by any means.

Just my 2¢
JJ


----------



## pietcux

johnjen said:


> I agree that the 700's are WAY under rated.
> I don't own a pair but I did have a chance to play with a pair and they responded well to 'adjustments' (eq, better cabling, and other more involved tweaks).
> And while not as 'robust' as 800's that doesn't mean they are 2nd class HP's by any means.
> 
> ...


I just got me my second pair of a used HD800. When I got the first pair I didn't have proper gear to drive them and was underwhelmed. Sold the soon. Now my gear has evolved and even my DAP Sony WM1A can properly on the balanced out. The Sennheiser HDVA 600 does even better. So yes you need proper upstream gear to get the most out of high end headphones. You should listen to the HD650 running balanced from the HDVA 600 though. It is a revalation.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

DavidA said:


> I used to use a Asus STX sound card *when I was playing a lot but have since moved on from gaming since I'm getting older (retired from work)* and my GF takes up most of my time these days playing golf, having friends over of dinner/wine.
> 
> The biggest difference to me between the HD700 and HD800 for gaming is I've never like the tone of the HD800 from any sound card or built-in sound chip and I've only really enjoyed the HD800 with a tube amp while the HD700 can sound quite good with some of the warmer SS amps (Polaris, G-109, HA-501).  If your Schiit stack is Modi MB and Magni3 then I think the HD800 might sound decent/good playing games but its not something that I've tried so YMMV.  I've tried my HD800 with a BH Crack and played games but I still like the HD700 out of the STX better since the positional audio was better to me.


Come on man!!! That should mean you are gaming more!!  

ButI cant blame you for wanting to go golfing, and throw dinner parties. Especially the way you cook!

Take care @DavidA 


Slashn77 said:


> I actually am in the USA (MI) I am just new (almost 2 years) to the hobby as my first passion is PC gaming.
> Then I got HD650’s with modi2 magni2 (now magni 3 and Mayflower ARC when I’m on my laptop in my lazy boy because it’s a compact dac/amp combo and got tidal lossless/masters and discovered music without $30 ear buds.
> Then I got CA Lyra II and cascades with an ifi xdsd for portable use on my deck in the backyard listening to edm and 90’s
> hip hop.
> ...


I can understand someone thinking "not ideal" compared to the HD800. The sound stage of the Clear (and Utopia for that matter) aren't super wide like the HD800. I just read on the Utopia thread that someone likes using the Utopia more then the HD800 for gaming since the depth is great and its very pinpoint accurate. They think that the Utopia sounds are  more realistic and that they can hear the differences between movement better. I think you would be in great shape to get a Clear for both purposes! All that matters is that you like the Clear's sound to begin with.


----------



## rutter

Didn't find the Clear to lack treble. You can expect sharp sound in general.


----------



## georgelai57

The perforated gauze lining on the inside of the ear cups of my just under 2 year old HD800 has started to peel away. This is despite babying the product and always keeping it in the box when not in use. It has never been used outside the house. 

Either the adhesive used is not good enough for the tropics or it was not applied properly during assembly. Has anyone had this problem?

Sennheiser Singapore has said it is wear and tear but they will waive the labor costs. My contention is how can a part of the product that is not subject to any contact whatsoever fail because of alleged wear and tear? Maybe the sound waves caused the wear and tear


----------



## Hoegaardener70

treebug said:


> Does anyone have experience of the LQi HD800 cable?



This is a very old question, but I could not find an answer. Any feedback available on the LQi cables in general? Thanks


----------



## connieflyer

I would agree with the concensus on the HD 700 being a good compromise. I have had the Senn 380HD Pro, closed phones and they were quite good for gaming and not bad for music. Moved up to {two!} pair of 650's, then the 800 and 700.  The 800 definitetly is great for most music, the 700's seem to be a good all around phone.  I do have a tube amp, the Feliks Audio Euforia and with the 800 and select tubes if is fantastic. The dac's I have are the Schiit Gungnir mulit-bit using the usb 5 gen, and a PS Audio Dac. Also wanted to try the planar sound and bought a used 400I, which I found was good for gaming as well. Not so much for music with the tube amp, as the impedance is low on the planar phones. In my experience it is phones, then amp and last dacs. I have recently gone to a Cambridge music player so I can stream all  my media and will be selling off the dacs as surplus.  I have not seen too many places in Mich either that have phones to try and compare to.  Nice to see you are still around @DavidA.


----------



## pietcux

Could you please put a picture of your issue?  To me the perforated gauze is self exchangeable cloth replacing time is a few seconds.


----------



## FLTWS (Jun 17, 2018)

My black, perforated liners were never glued in.

Underneath that is what looks like a plastic covered (both sides) fine metal mesh around the driver housing basket? I guess anything that pokes that from inside or outside could cause a problem that might look like its coming apart. I've seen photos of some that have been creased but never separated.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

FLTWS said:


> My black, perforated liners were never glued in.
> 
> Underneath that is what looks like a plastic covered (both sides) fine metal mesh around the driver housing basket? I guess anything that pokes that from inside or outside could cause a problem that might look like its coming apart. I've seen photos of some that have been creased but never separated.


I have a very old pair of HD800's and I just recently did some pad swapping and saw that my liners were not glued in. I never knew if they were or not to begin with though. Whats the consensus on this?


----------



## pietcux

MTMECraig said:


> I have a very old pair of HD800's and I just recently did some pad swapping and saw that my liners were not glued in. I never knew if they were or not to begin with though. Whats the consensus on this?


Not glued. Same as on the HD700. Maybe tucked firmly under the earpads. It should even have a spare part number


----------



## bearFNF

On mine, there is a liner shaped like a cup tucked into the earpad that is not glued and what I would call a black flat filter or "screen" over the black swirly chamber under the liner that is adhered to the chamber.
The shaped cup or liner has the Sennheiser logo formed into it.


----------



## pietcux (Jun 19, 2018)

This is more than 6 years old and in perfect shape. No signs of wear.


----------



## hollis7

one question i never see answered: since dekoni pads are thicker, could swapping default pads for dekoni ones affect - reduce- sound leakage? i'm surprised how these headphones leak sound outside, much more than other average open headphones - excluding some planars of course-


----------



## VocaloidDude (Jun 19, 2018)

What the hell is this? Why does this happen? Also, why can't I unplug the headphone cables? It's like they're jammed in there.






Edit. I ripped them out and damaged my finger on my desk. Ugh.


----------



## VocaloidDude

Why on earth did head fi downgrade to this god awful format? The posting capabilities on this new site are so low. I couldn't even copy paste an image from my clipboard. I had to upload it to imgur and now I can't even customize the size. I hate this layout so much.


----------



## johnjen

Do you see the "Upload a File" button (lower right) in a new post window?

It works rather well.

JJ


----------



## VocaloidDude

johnjen said:


> Do you see the "Upload a File" button (lower right) in a new post window?
> 
> It works rather well.
> 
> JJ


You're really not getting my complaint. On the old website you could right click on an image and copy paste it onto the page. It would immediately ask you what size you wanted to upload the file in. You're a pretty cheeky guy, but it should be ironic for you to know that I did use the upload feature and for some reason the picture didn't appear when I tried that. It's really nice of you to fill me in on that though, maybe next time it will work and you'll be right. Sorry.


----------



## pietcux

VocaloidDude said:


> You're really not getting my complaint. On the old website you could right click on an image and copy paste it onto the page. It would immediately ask you what size you wanted to upload the file in. You're a pretty cheeky guy, but it should be ironic for you to know that I did use the upload feature and for some reason the picture didn't appear when I tried that. It's really nice of you to fill me in on that though, maybe next time it will work and you'll be right. Sorry.



Jude explained at length that they did not want to change the site, they were forced to. And yes the old version had some nice features, but that's history. I have no problem to upload any picture from pc, tablt or smartphone.  If I want to rezize the picture, I take it first and do it on the phone.


----------



## VocaloidDude

pietcux said:


> Jude explained at length that they did not want to change the site, they were forced to. And yes the old version had some nice features, but that's history. I have no problem to upload any picture from pc, tablt or smartphone.  If I want to rezize the picture, I take it first and do it on the phone.


I have so many complaints about this site, I will not even begin listing them.


----------



## pietcux

VocaloidDude said:


> What the hell is this? Why does this happen? Also, why can't I unplug the headphone cables? It's like they're jammed in there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When you unplug the cable the very first time it is like they are glued. This gets easier over time.


----------



## VocaloidDude

pietcux said:


> When you unplug the cable the very first time it is like they are glued. This gets easier over time.


Yeah. It is kinda crazy, they come out just fine now.


----------



## VocaloidDude

How do they get twisted like that?


----------



## pietcux

VocaloidDude said:


> How do they get twisted like that?


That is you doing it. You probably coil the cable when you store the cans and when you put them in use again you do not look on what you do an create the one twist next time the second and so on. Been there done that, lol. That is the risk when your cable goes to both earpieces.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

VocaloidDude said:


> What the hell is this? Why does this happen? Also, why can't I unplug the headphone cables? It's like they're jammed in there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


how did you damage your finger?


pietcux said:


> Jude explained at length that they did not want to change the site, they were forced to. And yes the old version had some nice features, but that's history. I have no problem to upload any picture from pc, tablt or smartphone.  If I want to rezize the picture, I take it first and do it on the phone.





pietcux said:


> That is you doing it. You probably coil the cable when you store the cans and when you put them in use again you do not look on what you do an create the one twist next time the second and so on. Been there done that, lol. That is the risk when your cable goes to both earpieces.


@pietcux you're a pretty smart guy you know that? I appreciate all the practicality you bring.

After I cleaned my messy desk (gf was on me something fierce about doing that....) I went to rope up my HD800 cord and the same thing happened to me. Where they connect it was a twisted mess. I unplugged them, wrapped the rest of the way and then plugged back in. Wonder if its bad that they get twisted like that over time?


----------



## Evshrug

MTMECraig said:


> how did you damage your finger?
> 
> Probably a nail, or banged it against a desk when the connector released.
> 
> ...



I actually had a guy in NYC stop me from packing up the HD 800 S I had in my hands, and show me how he coils his cables. Explained how his mic cables at his work never developed a Short because of how careful he always was. What he did was unplug from the amp and lay out the cable so that the 1/4” (6.3mm for you metric folks) plug could rotate freely, and made large loose loops that would complete a circuit at the same time the plug would rotate 360°.

I appreciated the guy’s care for the gear; though I don’t know how much difference it makes from how I wrap mine already, it can’t hurt... so why not do it his way? I think it’s most important to unplug from the amp first so the cable won’t wring itself out, and then have somewhat larger loops of the cable so you don’t put a kink it. Among metalsmiths, a kink or a hard twist is considered “work” done to the metal (in the cable), where the atoms get compressed closer together, and you can’t unkink a cable without applying enough heat (like a blowtorch) to destroy the cable casing.

At home, I don’t coil up my cable at all, unless I want to transport my headphone somewhere. Twisting like Vocaloid’s only comes from turning the headphone while the cable is plugged in... so just stop turning the headphone around and around?


----------



## Ojisan

Evshrug said:


> I actually had a guy in NYC stop me from packing up the HD 800 S I had in my hands, and show me how he coils his cables. Explained how his mic cables at his work never developed a Short because of how careful he always was. What he did was unplug from the amp and lay out the cable so that the 1/4” (6.3mm for you metric folks) plug could rotate freely, and made large loose loops that would complete a circuit at the same time the plug would rotate 360°.
> 
> I appreciated the guy’s care for the gear; though I don’t know how much difference it makes from how I wrap mine already, it can’t hurt... so why not do it his way? I think it’s most important to unplug from the amp first so the cable won’t wring itself out, and then have somewhat larger loops of the cable so you don’t put a kink it. Among metalsmiths, a kink or a hard twist is considered “work” done to the metal (in the cable), where the atoms get compressed closer together, and you can’t unkink a cable without applying enough heat (like a blowtorch) to destroy the cable casing.
> 
> At home, I don’t coil up my cable at all, unless I want to transport my headphone somewhere. Twisting like Vocaloid’s only comes from turning the headphone while the cable is plugged in... so just stop turning the headphone around and around?



He is probably doing the classic over/under coiling (Google is your friend if you are not familiar). I do that with all my cables and never had a problem. I used to work 500+ shows/year when I was younger and always used over/under coiling for long run mic cables and such. Figure 8 for big three phase power cables. Zero problems. These simple coiling practice should take you a long way.


----------



## JamieMcC

Don't overlook the Beyer T1 for gaming it has superb sound staging and pin point accuracy.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

For the money (ahem, street price — a fraction of MSRP) it's exceptionally good. On its own merits, I have difficulty thinking of an area in which it pulls ahead. Especially comfort.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 9, 2018)

I have not been listening to the HD800 much lately,I have been using closed phones as most the time in the evening my wife is watching tv just a few feet away.

With my wife at work I have grabbed the HD800.
Thought I would post just to say that I have had an epic time with with a couple of Pink Floyd albums.

 



I could never part with this headphone, just one of those headphones that I feel just keeps on giving. What an epic couple of hours...volume higher than normal  

I am going to buy a new headband and pads...any particular place cheaper than another or are all the Senn replacements parts always the same....I want original Senn pads and headband


----------



## FLTWS (Jul 9, 2018)

Pretty sure I got mine on Amazon 2 years ago, clear plastic bag with blue and white cardboard seal and all the Senn printing I expected to see.


----------



## BobG55

whirlwind said:


> I have not been listening to the HD800 much lately,I have been using closed phones as most the time in the evening my wife is watching tv just a few feet away.
> 
> With my wife at work I have grabbed the HD800.
> Thought I would post just to say that I have had an epic time with with a couple of Pink Floyd albums.
> ...




Damn that's a nice looking amp Whirlwind.  Is that the 2359Glenn Studio Custom OTL ?  I'd love to listen to the HD800 w/ that amp, I'll tell you.


----------



## whirlwind

BobG55 said:


> Damn that's a nice looking amp Whirlwind.  Is that the 2359Glenn Studio Custom OTL ?  I'd love to listen to the HD800 w/ that amp, I'll tell you.



Hi @BobG55 

Thanks for the kind remarks.  This particular amp is 2359Glenn Studio EL3N amp.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

whirlwind said:


> I have not been listening to the HD800 much lately,I have been using closed phones as most the time in the evening my wife is watching tv just a few feet away.
> 
> With my wife at work I have grabbed the HD800.
> Thought I would post just to say that I have had an epic time with with a couple of Pink Floyd albums.
> ...


Like the saying always goes-

"When the wifes away, the Glenn and HD800 will play."


----------



## whirlwind

FLTWS said:


> Pretty sure I got mine on Amazon 2 years ago, clear plastic bag with blue and white cardboard seal and all the Senn printing I expected to see.




Thanks.
Ear pads are bought. They do not carry the headband any longer and I am having a hard time coming up with a genuine one.


----------



## FLTWS

Well, with the HD800S and non S still in full production you could probably order direct from Sennheiser. 
They have some US location stores, I believe.


----------



## whirlwind

The pads have arrived and are installed....a tad tricky in getting them on.
Waiting on the headband padding now, may be awhile it is coming from the UK

These old HD800 are looking brand new again.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

whirlwind said:


> The pads have arrived and are installed....a tad tricky in getting them on.
> Waiting on the headband padding now, may be awhile it is coming from the UK
> 
> These old HD800 are looking brand new again.


lookin real cleaned up!  My pads were so burned out before I replaced them recently. You actually had to use an electron microscope to see them.

In regards to putting new HD800 pads on, don't forget to TWIST. I think thats the part that gets people hung up.

Glad you're set @whirlwind!


----------



## P+D-MI

TWIST?


----------



## IkSak

Hi all,

I'm trying to decide between the HD800S and the HD800. Currently, a Sennheiser representative here in Colombia is in a stock liquidation and is offering the headphones at aprox. US$1000 and US$900, both new.

I listen mostly to classical and latin music and I'm considering purchasing one, but I'm unsure which one to choose. 

From what I've read in the forums, the HD800S is less amp picky and has more bass (although at the expense of a bit of distorsion). On the other hand, the HD800 has less distorsion and the 6 khz peak (not sure how much this matters for clasical). I have two questions for you:

1) Which one may suit my needs better? For amps, I have a Lyr2, a Vali 2 and a Magni 3 which I use with a Bifrost.
2) Among my headphones I have an HD700 (modded) and an Massdrop AKG K7XX, which I use for classical. Are the HD800/S a good upgrade over these?

BTW, the seller has three of each to sale, so if anyone's interested, just let me know


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

I think both would be a great step up from the cans mentioned. If classical is your main listening music then I would go for the HD800. I find them to be more revealing in comparison to the HD800s.

1- I think they will be good choices to take some edge off the HD800.
2- Totally, like above mentioned!


----------



## IkSak

MTMECraig said:


> I think both would be a great step up from the cans mentioned. If classical is your main listening music then I would go for the HD800. I find them to be more revealing in comparison to the HD800s.
> 
> 1- I think they will be good choices to take some edge off the HD800.
> 2- Totally, like above mentioned!


What about the amp pairings? Is the lyr2 and Vali2 good enough for the hd800? I've read a lot of the amp pairing and they seem to be very picky


----------



## IkSak

MTMECraig said:


> I think both would be a great step up from the cans mentioned. If classical is your main listening music then I would go for the HD800. I find them to be more revealing in comparison to the HD800s.
> 
> 1- I think they will be good choices to take some edge off the HD800.
> 2- Totally, like above mentioned!


What about the amp pairings? Is the lyr2 and Vali2 good enough for the hd800? I've read a lot of the amp pairing and they seem to be very picky


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

"Good enough" is a very difficult question for me to answer... Due to being a member of the trade on here I can't give my honest opinion on anything we don't sell. Feel free to PM if you want and I can give tons of suggestions all  over the place for whatever sound your looking for in regards to the HD800/HD800s. This would be wether we sell it, don't sell it, or its discontinued id be able to talk freely.

Offer is always welcome to everyone else on here. I love talking this stuff ha


----------



## DavidA

IkSak said:


> What about the amp pairings? Is the lyr2 and Vali2 good enough for the hd800? I've read a lot of the amp pairing and they seem to be very picky


The Lyr2 is decent with the HD800 but I felt that the Lyr2 paired better with the HD800S while the HD800 is better paired with a OTL amp like BH Crack or Elise but you will still have to experiment with tubes for these amps to find a combination that you like.  Like @MTMECraig noted with the HD800 most like to use an amp that will take a touch of the edge in the treble.


----------



## Nudel (Jul 25, 2018)

Hi guys. Anyone knows when the new pads from hd820 gonna hit the market? I hope they gonna fit the older hd800. They've seems a bit thicker and more comfy?


----------



## Skullophile (Jul 26, 2018)

It’s a Dell Venue 11 pro 7140 running Windows 10, using Foobar2000, geek out V2, balanced 3.5mm to adapter to HD800.
Only drawback is no Dsd but this semi portable setup has many bonuses.


----------



## FiGuY1017

Anyone know why they quit having the headbands widely available? Seems strange to stop selling them?


----------



## whirlwind

FiGuY1017 said:


> Anyone know why they quit having the headbands widely available? Seems strange to stop selling them?



Do you need the whole headband, or just the headband padding ?

i just recently replaced the ear pads and the head band padding....the head band padding was tougher to find.
I finally came across an e-bay seller that had the original.


----------



## FLTWS

They aren't available directly from Sennheiser?


----------



## FiGuY1017

Just got confirmation that they are


----------



## FiGuY1017

No just the headband padding


----------



## alvin sawdust

On a whim today I decided to clean the cable connections on my HD800 with deoxit, something I haven't done at all since receiving the cans about three years ago. After spraying a little cleaner into both sockets and plugging and unplugging the cable a few times I put the phones on and what an improvement. Improvements in clarity and notably a more punchy and defined bass.
Well worth the effort and something that is probably overlooked by most. A bit annoyed with myself for not doing this sooner as I regularly clean contacts on the rest of my rig.


----------



## yates7592

Great info thanks John. I record live music at concerts and regularly do the same with contacts on the mic/recorder interface but never thought to use on a headphone rig.


----------



## alvin sawdust

Hi Paul, yes a good habit to get into and definitely worth the effort.


----------



## TYATYA

Highly recommend gold liquid for cable, daps...


----------



## johnjen

I'll second the recommendation of the nano silver and gold in oil.

But clean the contacts 1st, then use the oil as sparingly as possible.

JJ


----------



## Boogie7910

Thoughts on the DT 1990 Pro vs HD800 for competitive shooter gaming?


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Aug 12, 2018)

Boogie7910 said:


> Thoughts on the DT 1990 Pro vs HD800 for competitive shooter gaming?



My first thought is ... which ever you use, make sure to use a DAC. I use a creative X7 and it made my sound while gaming much better with loudspeakers and headphones (have the HD800S).

You might find this interesting : https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-hd-800-gaming-review.756427/

I am not sure if the DT1990 has driver separation, seems important to me for gaming.


----------



## metalicblue

Just grabed a used pair of HD800's and here to say Hi!
They are in great condition (little pinpoint dented paint on one cup) except for pads and headband padding. I will replace these anyway. Serial is in 10xxx. Anyone care to guess how old this pair may be?


----------



## wazzupi

metalicblue said:


> Just grabed a used pair of HD800's and here to say Hi!
> They are in great condition (little pinpoint dented paint on one cup) except for pads and headband padding. I will replace these anyway. Serial is in 10xxx. Anyone care to guess how old this pair may be?


My pair is 40xxx and is under 2 years old so your pair is quite old 2012 perhaps


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

mine is super old. debating getting a newer one for its allegedly lighter sound


----------



## Svatopluk (Aug 21, 2018)

metalicblue said:


> Just grabed a used pair of HD800's and here to say Hi!
> They are in great condition (little pinpoint dented paint on one cup) except for pads and headband padding. I will replace these anyway. Serial is in 10xxx. Anyone care to guess how old this pair may be?


I bought mine around 2010 or 11, the serial number is 078XX and they're still in good condition. They give me no reason to think they will not last another ten years or so.


----------



## Vitaly2017

Hey guys if any one is interested I am selling this....

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/selling-hd800s-hdv-820.887144/


----------



## Satcher

Hoegaardener70 said:


> This is a very old question, but I could not find an answer. Any feedback available on the LQi cables in general? Thanks


I have the LQi cable (silver plated copper) and they're really great, I felt the soundstage did open up a bit and the highs were refined better. Build quality is awesome as well. Hope that helps.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Satcher said:


> I have the LQi cable (silver plated copper) and they're really great, I felt the soundstage did open up a bit and the highs were refined better. Build quality is awesome as well. Hope that helps.



Thank you, yes, very useful information. I see no need to spend a huge amount of money on cables in the future.


----------



## Svstem

Boogie7910 said:


> Thoughts on the DT 1990 Pro vs HD800 for competitive shooter gaming?



Definitely HD 800, it has the wider staging and better imaging capabilities!


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

metalicblue said:


> Just grabed a used pair of HD800's and here to say Hi!
> They are in great condition (little pinpoint dented paint on one cup) except for pads and headband padding. I will replace these anyway. Serial is in 10xxx. Anyone care to guess how old this pair may be?


Enjoy em! 

I own a pretty old pair and they show no signs of slowing down... I think the build is exceptional.


----------



## akãjerovia




----------



## Hoegaardener70

I have a question for all HD800S owners .... how do you "handle" the box? I live in Manhattan, where storage space matters. I really would like to get rid of the package/box, but I am concerned this will bring down the headphones resale value (if I decide to sell) considerably. Or would you see any chance to sell the very nice box together with the two original cables, and what would you likely expect to get? Thanks for your replies.


----------



## JamieMcC

Try checking the sold listings on ebay I'm sure I have seen a box or two listed in the past


----------



## Malfunkt

akãjerovia said:


>



The video is a Public Service Announcement in showing the dangers of wearing headphones in reverse.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

JamieMcC said:


> Try checking the sold listings on ebay I'm sure I have seen a box or two listed in the past


Smart. That would give him an idea of the norm and also what’s they are selling for.

@Hoegaardener70 i personally wouldn’t sweat it. The quality of how you keep them will be bigger resale value. I personally never cared about a box unless it was really functional like the Mr. Speakers Voce.... but how many boxes are functional to that degree? All of mine just end up in my basement.


----------



## Hoegaardener70 (Sep 11, 2018)

MTMECraig said:


> Smart. That would give him an idea of the norm and also what’s they are selling for.
> 
> @Hoegaardener70 i personally wouldn’t sweat it. The quality of how you keep them will be bigger resale value. I personally never cared about a box unless it was really functional like the Mr. Speakers Voce.... but how many boxes are functional to that degree? All of mine just end up in my basement.




I actually watched eBay listings and saw what people ask for, but I have not seen one actually being sold. Since I am selling my box with the unused balanced XLR cable and the 6.5mm unbalanced cable, I use now the XLR cable price (USD230) as reference and added 30 for box and the second original sennheiser cable. I find it’s good value but let’s see.

Regarding resale, I think you are right. I assume not having the original box reduces the price by a bit (let’s say usd50) but I am happy to pay that for freeing up my shelf for that matte - especially since I am not planning to sell my HD800s anytime soon.. Wish I had a basement here in NYC.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I actually watched eBay listings and saw what people ask for, but I have not seen one actually being sold. Since I am selling my box with the unused balanced XLR cable and the 6.5mm unbalanced cable, I use now the XLR cable price (USD230) as reference and added 30 for box and the second original sennheiser cable. I find it’s good value but let’s see.
> 
> Regarding resale, I think you are right. I assume not having the original box reduces the price by a bit (let’s say usd50) but I am happy to pay that for freeing up my shelf for that matter. Wish I had a basement here in NYC.


Smart. It really does come down to your convenience versus the price. I do have to say that some people really do care about it coming with a box so I should clarify that just because I don’t particularly care, that doesn’t mean everyone doesn’t...


----------



## tumpux

Just want to add that what we see as a keeper right now could change by next month. 
The box is not that big anyway. I am sure that there are some other things that can be removed in your place to accomodate the box.
Keep it and sell them when you're moving to the next set of cans.


----------



## listen4joy

i fount the box could be preety useful.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-hd800-travel-case.794701/


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I was listening to K1000 today, and as beautiful as the mids are, it's just not usable for any music requiring a 'bottom' to it. For the eighteenth century it's good, but for the nineteenth it's just not satisfying.


----------



## JaZZ

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I was listening to K1000 today, and as beautiful as the mids are, it's just not usable for any music requiring a 'bottom' to it. For the eighteenth century it's good, but for the nineteenth it's just not satisfying.


Fortunately now there's the Mysphere 3.1 – which has bass.


----------



## FLTWS

JaZZ said:


> Fortunately now there's the Mysphere 3.1 – which has bass.



I hope to audition that one day, just because...


----------



## deFiniLoGy

Dekoni Elite Hybrid any good for the HD800S?


----------



## Yviena

How are people with glasses enjoying these headphones , is there any issues with seal/bass etc when wearing them?


----------



## DavidA

Yviena said:


> How are people with glasses enjoying these headphones , is there any issues with seal/bass etc when wearing them?


I've used my HD800 with and without glass and don't seem to notice any difference in sound but since arms of my glasses site quite close to the sides of my head it might be the reason for the little/no changes in sound for me.


----------



## attmci

Yviena said:


> How are people with glasses enjoying these headphones , is there any issues with seal/bass etc when wearing them?


No worries. If that's a issue, you shouldn't use any headphone.


----------



## 480126

deFiniLoGy said:


> Dekoni Elite Hybrid any good for the HD800S?


I have the dekoni fenestraded. Comfort is much better. For me sound is super. Have no comparsion with Original pads. And the dekoni looks very cool/sexy


----------



## Nik74

Yviena said:


> How are people with glasses enjoying these headphones , is there any issues with seal/bass etc when wearing them?



No issues whatsoever, I wear glasses with a metallic rim and I have spent 8 hours + with the 800S on and I forget that I have either on!


----------



## OldSkool

HD800 is fine with my glasses, as well. I sometimes wear beer goggles late at night and forget I have them on before I pass out.


----------



## Buddhahacker

DavidA said:


> I've used my HD800 with and without glass and don't seem to notice any difference in sound but since arms of my glasses site quite close to the sides of my head it might be the reason for the little/no changes in sound for me.



I concur. I wear glasses and I have noticed no issues with seal.


----------



## muscleking

picked HD800 serial 7800s, said bought in 2010. hooked up to my audio gd 10.32. not bright at all. i quite enjoy the sound. definitely more enjoyable than the beyer t1.2 when i had it. too bad i got rid of the little dot 3 before getting this. but the audio gd r2r has tube like sound. the wife quite enjoy the hd800 and her hearing is sensitive normally listen to very low volume and with hd800 she can crank up a bit higher. definitely a keeper.

oh also finally a headphone that mine and her ears doesn't touch the pad, finally. every other headphone i tried ear will touch something. 

soundstage is not like a few hundred meter away like. it has a big sound, the build quality is very high. not as drop friendly as beyer 1.2 but it's light and comfortable. when i first got it just came from outside and the headphone feels very cold so i wonder if some of the silver parts are magnesium. but i see some small circle ring shape things where you get on plastic molding. so probably plastic. definitely the coolest looking headphone.

i got a coworker to listen a bit with my deckard amp at work and he has a 35k worth of electric guitar and googled this guy on yotube performing live with same guitar and he likes the hd800 more than the LCD2.1 non fazor i received at the same time. the hd800 comes with this super thick 4 wire copper colour XLO cable that is heck long. i measured 4m or 12' at least. single ended not balanced. so is it possible to get this cable to be balanced by simply replace the end? i'll go home take a picture tonight. good deal for 1000 canadian with the original cable and this xlo cable and a woo audio double headphone stand, oh man this stand is nuts. sooo heavy and well made. 

now just need to get a highend usb cable. probably get the curious cable. and yeah the r2r audio-gd is a good match for hd800 for sure. i haven't tried my saber dac with it yet. probably won't be good.

i put this to an iphone 5s and it actually sound pretty decent. can drive it at pretty loud volume at 80% volume.


----------



## Joong

Hi, I am in with serial number 37xxx.
Do you know guys how old is it?
I should pick this up, because I think it is necessary passage to enter into formal hi-fi world and also I thought it is necessary ritual I should pass through.


----------



## Malfunkt

Joong said:


> Hi, I am in with serial number 37xxx.
> Do you know guys how old is it?
> I should pick this up, because I think it is necessary passage to enter into formal hi-fi world and also I thought it is necessary ritual I should pass through.



Not as old as my 01201  The thing with the 800, is Sennheiser has been very consistent with quality. Very little variance and strict tolerance in production. What will change its sound more, is the quality / condition of the pads. But even still, the pads are quite shallow even when new.

I just wrote a post comparing a much older 1980's Sennheiser HD540 to the HD800 among others https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wow...nce-are-so-good.670255/page-155#post-14562309

The HD800 is amazing. It isn't as natural in tone, compared to the Utopia or even my old 540s but it does this other thing. That space, it just relaxes the soundfield. Your mind acclimates to the sound and you can immerse yourself. 

Headphones like the HD650 and HD800 are truly benchmark in the sense that so many of us have owned them plus they have such consistent manufacturing quality, especially the 800.


----------



## FiGuY1017

For me it was the end of my search and I’m sure for several others it was as well. With the right pairing I have no desire to find anything better”


----------



## Joong

You guys are comforting and welcoming me.
Thanks


----------



## treebug (Oct 27, 2018)

Is anyone using the HD800 with the Luxman P-750U?


----------



## nephilim32

Anyone using the HD 800's with a Chord Qutest DAC and a Cyrus CD i player?

The results are analytical magic. 
Great critical listening set up with no fatigue .


----------



## treebug

Has the HD800 now been discontinued does anyone know? I see it's no longer on the Sennheiser website.


----------



## yates7592

Surely not. I can't imagine Sennheiser would ever discontinue HD800.


----------



## FiGuY1017

Yes ,it has been discontinued from what I know


----------



## Skullophile

Can’t sell new crap without discontinuing the old.


----------



## Malfunkt

Looks like they are discontinued. Not on US or Canadian stores. They are classics now.


----------



## nephilim32

Malfunkt said:


> Looks like they are discontinued. Not on US or Canadian stores. They are classics now.



Well . I guess the HD 800 C's really do have the correct name. 



I will NEVER sell mine .NEVER.


----------



## muscleking

had these for 2 weeks now. totally shouldn't waste money buying t1.2 a few years ago and sell at a big loss. overall these spend most time on my head. very comfortable. comfort is on par with ma900. i still don't hear anything bright about mine. actually serial is 8700 not 7800. still pretty early, but like other said i don't think the sound change at all if any for all the about 50k units made. very good for watching movies on netflix. the audio-gd i recently got is end game for me as far as amp/dac goes. i saw a guy here using o2/odac with hd800, you got to try something else. o2/odac is amount the most stale device i tried. anyways, very happy with what i got. just getting into more cable rolling. need to convert the ALO audio cable that came with the hd800 to balanced, not sure that's possible, for a true balanced. the trouble of finding someone to do it better just get a cable for about 100 bucks.

anyone tried headphone cable rolling with hd800 on balanced cables? there are many on ebay for around 100 and it's silver plated or japanese copper cable. still haven't decide which one to go. i don't think it will make much difference for headphone cable if spend 100 or 1000,


----------



## greggf

You guys are right.  No HD800 on Senn site.  Holy cow.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Hmm that’s too bad the HD800 is the “standard” “reference” headphones for me... Which I use with tube amp only. So sure I’d never sell mine but what will happen if one driver dies? I hope Sennheiser do sell replacements parts for a long long time


----------



## treebug

Confirmed by Sennheiser. 

'Thank you for your email. The HD 800 has been discontinued since the end of June this year and the successor to this is the HD 800 S'.

See if I can track a new one down before they disappear.


----------



## omniweltall

Hot da*n. I better get a spare one.


----------



## treebug

Yep. The S isn't for me, so....


----------



## Nik74

800S owner here who has never heard the 800: should I chase a pair of HD800 up? I always felt that I might be missing something by not trying it out and I now feel triggered again.


----------



## Malfunkt

muscleking said:


> had these for 2 weeks now. totally shouldn't waste money buying t1.2 a few years ago and sell at a big loss. overall these spend most time on my head. very comfortable. comfort is on par with ma900. i still don't hear anything bright about mine



Congrats! Didn't find them overly bright either. 



muscleking said:


> I saw a guy here using o2/odac with hd800, you got to try something else. o2/odac is amount the most stale device i tried.



Probably me. Yup I've tried others from Vali 2, Chord Hugo 2 to Eddie Current. I'll stick with the O2/ODAC just don't feed it stale music and its fine. The HD800 is relatively easy to power. 

That said, I do like the sound of tubes, and actually quite liked the Vali 2 I borrowed. Tube rolling sure. Cable rolling, I wouldn't rec.


----------



## chimney189

Nik74 said:


> 800S owner here who has never heard the 800: should I chase a pair of HD800 up? I always felt that I might be missing something by not trying it out and I now feel triggered again.



I've owned both.  I don't think owning the original is necessary. 
If I were you I'd look for a headphone to compliment the HD 800S if anything.


----------



## FiGuY1017

I may be in the minority but that’s to bad they discontinued it ,because I perfer the 800 stock no mods ,so I’m guessing the S wouldn’t be for me.


----------



## chimney189

I think that this would be a great chance for Sennheiser to lower the MSRP on the HD 800S.


----------



## treebug

Nik74 said:


> 800S owner here who has never heard the 800: should I chase a pair of HD800 up? I always felt that I might be missing something by not trying it out and I now feel triggered again.


I found I could hear details clearer on the HD800. Soundstage slightly wider too.


----------



## omniweltall

chimney189 said:


> I've owned both.  I don't think owning the original is necessary.
> If I were you I'd look for a headphone to compliment the HD 800S if anything.


Lets put it this way. HD800 can be tuned like HD800S, but not the other way around.


----------



## treebug

Shouldn't have sold my old HD800. Picked a new one up today and this ain't goin' nowhere!


----------



## Joong (Oct 29, 2018)

I listened to hd800 first time, and my expectation for brightness and bass shyness was wrong.
Tones very well balanced, and the tonal density is high.
My musical preference is classical orchestral music, and this phone brings me home.
I am coming from Nighthawk as my favorite phone which has very thick sonic layers with dark shifted, whereas HD 800 has the same thickness of layers with tonal balance not bright shifted that was one of my worries.
It's bit surprise that there are more similarity to Nighthawks than dissimilarity, which is well balanced of hd800 rather darker in case of Nighthawk.
Nighthawk requires its complimentary due to the dark nature, but HD 800 needs the complimentary in far less degrees.
It is really wonderful for my taste.
I think I am home.

[edit]
My other worry was its being pickiness for headphone amplifier. It is not picky at all.


----------



## johnjen

I concur as well.
The 800 S is not for me either.
It lost some of the magic that can be heard from the original 800.

And as noted an 800 can become (effectively) an 800 S, and not the other way around.

This, at least for me, is a backwards move on Senn's part, that is unless they have a new design in the works, in which case the 800 can potentially become a statement piece.

JJ


----------



## Nik74

I think it’s time to go to my nearby distributor and hear the 800 and 800S side by side.


----------



## JaZZ (Oct 30, 2018)

Never heard the «S», but since I equalize (and modify) anyway, I'd have no use for it. Fortunately I have two pairs of the classic HD 800 – one inherited from a friend. Bad move from Sennheiser to just keep the more expensive variant in the product range.


----------



## omniweltall

JaZZ said:


> Never heard the «S», but since I equalize (and modify) anyway, I'd have no use for it. Fortunately I have two pairs of the classic HD 800 – one inherited from a friend. Bad move from Sennheiser to just keep the more expensive variant in the product range.


Agreed. Just like the HD600/650, Senn has room to keep both HD800/800S.


----------



## RCBinTN

johnjen said:


> I concur as well.
> The 800 S is not for me either.
> It lost some of the magic that can be heard from the original 800.
> 
> ...



I agree, John. The magic about the HD800 is the clarity and level of detail presented. 
Great, for me, on all music genres (even metal) but really shines on acoustic and symphonic.

I heard the HD800S at a meet ... they sounded like the HD800 with a sock stuffed inside.

I can not imagine Sennheiser just walking away from an open, highly resolving, headphone ...
They must have an ace in the works


----------



## Jose R

RCBinTN said:


> I can not imagine Sennheiser just walking away from an open, highly resolving, headphone ...
> They must have an ace in the works



Hmmm, buy a backup HD800 or wait for a real potential replacement (that is not the HD800S)? _1st world decisions_...


----------



## treebug

Jose R said:


> Hmmm, buy a backup HD800 or wait for a real potential replacement (that is not the HD800S)? _1st world decisions_...



I think it will be a long wait. Sennheiser told me that the HD800S is the successor. The choice is HD800S or HD820 now.


----------



## RCBinTN

Jose R said:


> Hmmm, buy a backup HD800 or wait for a real potential replacement (that is not the HD800S)? _1st world decisions_...



Thanks, Jose. I already own two pair of the HD800. First world anticipation!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

It was long rumored that the HD800 tuning changed from more "full sounding" to more "airy." Any idea when this change might have taken effect? I have SN 6xxx


----------



## RCBinTN

bosiemoncrieff said:


> It was long rumored that the HD800 tuning changed from more "full sounding" to more "airy." Any idea when this change might have taken effect? I have SN 6xxx



You may want to go back to DavidMahler's original thread ... he, too, heard a revision in the HD800.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared.634201/
You'll need to page through to find his HD800 review - the links don't work since Head-Fi upversioned the platform.

Both my HD800 are around SN 34000 so much later than yours ...


----------



## Thenewguy007

bosiemoncrieff said:


> It was long rumored that the HD800 tuning changed from more "full sounding" to more "airy." Any idea when this change might have taken effect? I have SN 6xxx



That was just a rumor. The sound difference people were hearing was the older earpads being squished & used up vs a pair with brand new ones.

Though I think there was a revision in tuning, but that was from the first batches of HD800 a decade+ ago. I think the first few hundred produced.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Ohhh. So I guess I'll look for SN<300? < 250?


----------



## P+D-MI

I have one of the first run of 500 and definitely different than any of the newer units i've heard. In a word, fuller. Oh yeah, and I've replaced the pads. Btw, I'll never sell them.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I imagine it'll be very difficult to find one of the originals.


----------



## Svatopluk

I doubt if any manufacturer has the capability to produce truly consistent sounding headphones. The drivers that are not within specified tolerances must be reworked, resulting in additional costs for the manufacturer. Even the inspec drivers have variations resulting in the need for matching, slightly brighter ones are paired with other like drivers, the same with slightly darker ones. This, along with earpad condition may explain the variations and may be resposable for some of the retuning theories.

But what do I know!


----------



## FiGuY1017

I can’t help but feel bad for the next generation of those in the minority like me(who’d like the stock sound) they’ll be missing out on the og. Every other headphone I have is great to listen to ,but with these ,it’s a music experience. I’ll be hanging onto these until I get buried with them.


----------



## Amberlamps

My HD800S suffered from droopy ears, both sides would fall down very easily.

Someone has probably already done this, but for anyone who hasn’t, this is what I did.

I took the headband off, it clips off but be careful, as there is a good few clips, each clip is really two clips. ( Putting the head band on requires force to snap the clips back inplace )

Once the head band is off, use a light and you will see tiny holes in the metal headband, if you then look on the end you should see a copper coloured piece of metal with a tiny ball bearing in it, ( its actually on the black plastic of the earphone ) the copper coloured metal covers the ball and at one side is slightly bent over. 

To stop your headphones from falling down again, take something blunt and gently apply force to the side that is bending over, don’t push the bearing down, just the metal thats slightly bending over. Do it very very gently and you will be rewarded with excellent stability. 

 My right earphone will now only come down if I move it, and with a loud satisfying click, and it no longer falls down by itself.

There is a ball bearing at each side of the head band, one or both may need done.  All you have to look for is the metal ball bearing and the copper coloured metal, one side of the metal is attached to black plastic, the opposite side to that is the part that is bending down and which may need pushed down slightly.

To be honest, it’s a badly designed system, but it can be fixed easily, and in minutes.

Disclaimer, follow my instructions at your own risk.


----------



## thecrow

Nik74 said:


> I think it’s time to go to my nearby distributor and hear the 800 and 800S side by side.


Absolutely!!


----------



## Ichos

It's the right timing for a massdrop HD800!


----------



## Skullophile

My pair is just >500 serial number.


----------



## adlevision

Howdy gents,

I'm evaluating whether to keep the HD800.  I think I will, for the usual mind-blowing reason, but I could use some help evaluating the frequency graph (attached at the bottom) and EQ suggestions.  I'm blind, so it'd be great if one of you could "read" the graph for me by stating it in dB.  I understand the graphs are very smoothed out, but maybe it will provide some useful info to me.  Similarly, EQ discussions are always carried out using images.  It's a bit awkward buying $1000 headphones that I don't like listening to without EQ, but that's the story.  Mids are too thin for violins and cellos to have body, tiz and sibilance are bad.  WHat's not to dislike?  The lightning transient response and imaging, of course.

Playing with EQ, I've learned two things.  First, my disdain for EQ was premature, since I'm fairly stunned by the good results with the HD800, even using a simple 31-band GEQ in Foobar.  Second, I've learned that I suck at predicting what bands correspond to which sonic characteristics--lack of experience.

What I've roughed out so far is the following:
* -6 dB @6kHz.  Kill it, kill it, kill it until it's dead!
* Next, I took literally everything else down about 2 dB to give me some room to play with boosting.
* Brought up the low bass just for fun.
* Brought 2.5 kHz up to 0 dB for a Grado-like spike--sheepishly, because I sold my SR-225i years ago to get away from this spike.  I think I need to bring up surrounding bands, since the highs are now unnaturally spotlighted.
* Importantly, I progressively dropped bands from 800 Hz down to 200 Hz by very slight amounts each time to add fulness to the fundamentals.
...That's pretty much the story so far.  Comments and suggestions, particularly in relation to how this seems when juxtaposed on the individual frequency response graph?
For context: According to my ears, the HD600s are "correct" and my gear shoots for neutral, though I have all Bur Brown DAC chips in everything by choice. Amp is TEAC HA-501, said to be neutral.

A couple of other questions:
* What's with the diamond-shaped raised area on the screens inside the ear cups?  Are we decorating ear cups now?
* Early HD800 impressions didn't report the 6kHz spike, and there are at least some suggestions that the trend in drivers is toward more treble since 2013, either intentionally or just batch variation?  Did early adopters just not hear the spike and bright treble because they couldn't see it on the graph, was it something that became more of a real problem in the drivers along the way, or do newer owners just hear it as more profound because they are already listening for it?  I know I legitimately cringe at the spike.  I just kind of worry about the possibility that I either have an extreme unit, perhaps even a fake (EBay), or that newer units just ain't what they used to be.


----------



## JaZZ (Nov 8, 2018)

Hi Adlevision

I wouldn't care for the individual curve for you pair – it's heavily smoothed and moreover normalized by any Sennheiser norm.

Since my pair is modified (bare reflective surfaces within the ear cups lined with one or two layers of black velvet, which has turned out to have the best HF absorbtion properties), my _foobar_/xnor EQ curve doesn't exactly suit your needs. Therefore I have tried to make one that extrapolates from it and should be passably usable for an unmodified pair. See attached Zip file.

Well, for some reason Head-Fi doesn't make uploaded Zip files visible/accessible for its users, so I'll send it to you via PM.


----------



## johnjen

My 2¢.
The Senn supplied freq response charts are 'normalized', meaning averaged over each of the 1/3 octaves that the chart shows.
This is a 'standard' measurement technique that has been used for decades.
It hides the unevenness that the FR actually has.
I figure it's a marketing response to showing a FR graph yet not showing any usable nor meaningful information.

And your FR graph is actually better than many I have seen, as in, it's flatter than most.
And I wouldn't use that graph as a basis for making EQ adjustments.
It simply has so little resolution, that it isn't really helpful to use as a basis for correction.

As for using EQ, my suggestion is to make small adjustments (like you already have) of 5dB or less.
And drop the entire FR by that same 5dB.
This will help to keep the digital signal from clipping, which can really mislead the efforts at EQ adjustments.

And in my experiments and subsequent EQ adjustments, that 6.5KHz peak only really needs to be reduced by ≈ 4 to 5dB and it by itself won't 'fix' the 'problem'.
Because simply put it isn't a FR problem.
And as such while the FR adjustment can 'help', it can't 'solve' this annoying aspect to the 800's.

And simply put, this audible 'annoyance' has to do with the overshoot response that these and most all other HP's have.

IOW FR adjustments can help ameliorate this 'annoyance', but not reduce it to insignificance.
And bringing up the very bottom end can really make substantial improvements everywhere, and I have found, in surprising ways.
The 800's can deliver bass energy that can be most impressive in terms of tonality and resolution and what I call *coupling*.

Lastly, consider using a parametric equalizer instead of the more traditional full or 1/3rd or 1/10 octave based fixed frequency EQ's
This will allow you to tailor the adjustments to the specific frequencies that need them and leave the others that don't need changing, alone.

This subject can get rather complex and detail oriented all to quickly, which can dissuade many from reaching a suitable solution that works for them, but the end results can be very satisfying.

JJ


----------



## FiGuY1017

Wow all this reinforces my happiness with the stock sound ,I wouldn’t personally change anything for my set up...actually both of my set ups. Probably the music I like plays into the equation as well.


----------



## treebug

TYATYA said:


> Zero stress on cable. Remove and install the cable daily will cause wear off the coating on contact pins, which applied for improve electric transfering



Where did you get the Sennheiser stand?


----------



## Amberlamps

adlevision said:


> Howdy gents,
> 
> I'm evaluating whether to keep the HD800.  I think I will, for the usual mind-blowing reason, but I could use some help evaluating the frequency graph (attached at the bottom) and EQ suggestions.  I'm blind, so it'd be great if one of you could "read" the graph for me by stating it in dB.  I understand the graphs are very smoothed out, but maybe it will provide some useful info to me.  Similarly, EQ discussions are always carried out using images.  It's a bit awkward buying $1000 headphones that I don't like listening to without EQ, but that's the story.  Mids are too thin for violins and cellos to have body, tiz and sibilance are bad.  WHat's not to dislike?  The lightning transient response and imaging, of course.
> 
> ...



Thats the same dudes signature that signed my 800S’s off.

I bet you he is sick of hearing HD800/S headphones.


----------



## TYATYA (Nov 8, 2018)

treebug said:


> Where did you get the Sennheiser stand?


Bought 2 pcs in my local, in an AVshow. Made of Aluminum. Laser mark in back : Design by elago in California made in Korea.
It looks very elegance in real life.

Edit : here is 90% close, just lack of Senn vinyl label

elago H Stand [Silver] - [Premium Aluminum][Scratch-Free Padding][Perfect Height] - for Gaming and Audio Headphones https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WGFBAGK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_3Og5BbN3QZSQY


----------



## treebug

Thanks for that, looks great. I thought it might be a Senn stand!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

One of these days I need to devote a whole day to compiling my HD800/K1000 review into something postable...or /more/ postable.


----------



## yates7592

bosiemoncrieff said:


> One of these days I need to devote a whole day to compiling my HD800/K1000 review into something postable...or /more/ postable.



Yes please, would be most welcome.


----------



## xenithon

Quick question - I typically use Sonarworks on Audirvana with the HD800. I wanted to ask if any uses something like FabFilter (or a similarly customizable EQ) with the HD800 and, if so, if you have recommended EQ settings that are similar to what SW achieves?


----------



## johnjen

Since no one else has responded, I'll chime in with what I came up with.

I use Tone Boosters TB FLX4 and TB FLX which are parametric EQ plugins that have been installed in Media Center in the DSP Studio section.

I have written up the settings I use and posted them here, along with a couple of 'companion' tweaks that dovetail well with the EQ I'm (and others) are using.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-diyrs-cookbook.781268/page-15#post_12300653
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-diyrs-cookbook.781268/page-24#post_12489775

But by itself Sonarworks is a really good introduction into what is possible using EQ, and what I've done, using the Tone Boosters EQ, is to 'adjust' the FR curve of my 800's to be closer to flat and along with adding the *SSBB*, which brings up the extreme bottom end all the way up to ≈ 100Hz, the results are most gratifying.

JJ


----------



## xenithon

johnjen said:


> Since no one else has responded, I'll chime in with what I came up with.
> 
> I use Tone Boosters TB FLX4 and TB FLX which are parametric EQ plugins that have been installed in Media Center in the DSP Studio section.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for that feedback!

Would the resultant EQ settings effectively look like this?

Hz         Gain      Q
12         +16      0.55
60         +2.0       4.0
362       -2.0      1.29
1358    +4.5      0.98
2130    +2.1      2.12
3556    -0.8        5.0
5023    +3.5       5.0
6306    -5.0        5.0
14550  -4.3        5.0


----------



## johnjen

It looks like this

 
And what you don't see is that this is running with a wet/dry mix of 90% (which I'm still fussing with, to dial it in).
This curve is fairly closely matched to what my 800's 'need' as a set of not just corrections but enhancements as well, (think the harmon curves) and a good portion of other EQ adjustments are handled by separate DSP functions so they aren't shown in this one parametric EQ graph.

And I started with an actual curve of my 800's so this curve is actually closely matched to how my 800's actually perform.

I have found that DSP is actually, when used well, quite handy at a variety of audio tweaks.
Think *SSBB* and *PRT* and clipping monitor etc.

JJ


----------



## AutumnCrown

Question: Does the recent serial number (45xxx) HD800 come with the USB drive with the graph? I don't think mine did, unless I lost it.


----------



## Ichos

I believe that the the usb with the graph is only for the HD800s.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Thenewguy007 said:


> That was just a rumor. The sound difference people were hearing was the older earpads being squished & used up vs a pair with brand new ones.
> 
> Though I think there was a revision in tuning, but that was from the first batches of HD800 a decade+ ago. I think the first few hundred produced.



I was led to believe (or read somewhere), that unlike the HD6x0, the HD800 doesn't change with the condition of the pads.  Anyone able to clarify this area?


----------



## johnjen

I have repeatedly changed my ear pads, from well used to new, and have not noticed such changes.

However there are changes in SQ simply by the placement on my head.
Perhaps this is what is being noticed.

JJ


----------



## Rayzilla

I'm going to ask this on the Master 9 thread but has anyone had any experience pairing the HD800S with the Master 9? I am now listening to the HD800 with the Master 9, which I have done before but for the first time I am using High gain on it. I rarely use the High gain because I am afraid of getting to adjusted to wanting it all of the time. Sounds strange but it is kind of like how I try not to add too much spice into my food because the rest of my family cannot eat spicy so if I start getting too used to eating spicy flavour, I will not enjoy the food as much when I eat with my family, which is more important to me.

Just wondering if I should go for an HD800S since I need a replacement cable for my HD800 anyway and the HD800S comes with two cables. The rubber coating on the cable about 2-3 inches down from the connection to the HP has opened and the wire itself is not exposed. Once in a while the sound goes out on that side because of this.


----------



## omniweltall

Tried Master 9 with hd800 last year. This is what I remember. 

Didnt like the tonality with this pairing. Sounded thin (same feeling with cma600i). But it sounds very clear and smooth. It can bring out the bass quality and quantity of the hd800. Soundstage was real wide, but flat. Imaging was really good. Treble was smooth but not to my preference with hd800. Perhaps hd650 would be great with this amp. 

I always recommend a tube amp for hd800.


----------



## Rayzilla

omniweltall said:


> Tried Master 9 with hd800 last year. This is what I remember.
> 
> Didnt like the tonality with this pairing. Sounded thin (same feeling with cma600i). But it sounds very clear and smooth. It can bring out the bass quality and quantity of the hd800. Soundstage was real wide, but flat. Imaging was really good. Treble was smooth but not to my preference with hd800. Perhaps hd650 would be great with this amp.
> 
> I always recommend a tube amp for hd800.


Your description seemed to match more with what I experienced with the setting on Low Gain. And the same reason why my listening sessions with the pairing were far and few between. But now with the setting at High Gain, which I tend not to do with any amp, it is quite a different experience. Much better and more body.


----------



## omniweltall

Rayzilla said:


> Your description seemed to match more with what I experienced with the setting on Low Gain. And the same reason why my listening sessions with the pairing were far and few between. But now with the setting at High Gain, which I tend not to do with any amp, it is quite a different experience. Much better and more body.


You're right. I remember now it was on low gain. I dare not touch the high gain, as the owner said the unit had increased gain.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Rayzilla said:


> Just wondering if I should go for an HD800S since I need a replacement cable for my HD800 anyway and the HD800S comes with two cables. The rubber coating on the cable about 2-3 inches down from the connection to the HP has opened and the wire itself is not exposed. Once in a while the sound goes out on that side because of this.



Where did you buy this headphone?  If the cable is broken and came that way, you're owed a replacement.


----------



## Rayzilla

ColtMrFire said:


> Where did you buy this headphone?  If the cable is broken and came that way, you're owed a replacement.


I have had it for a few years now so I don't think I would be able to make any warranty claim on it. It is the rubber cover part at the part where the cable splits apart and just a little before it connects to the headphone. I guess the plastic/rubber cover dries up and then prone to cracking? Then the wire inside gets exposed.


----------



## Rayzilla

omniweltall said:


> You're right. I remember now it was on low gain. I dare not touch the high gain, as the owner said the unit had increased gain.


The difference between High and Low gain is quite significant in terms of impact at the lower end and all around thickness of sound. The HD800 does sound light without the High Gain on (with the Hugo).


----------



## omniweltall

Rayzilla said:


> The difference between High and Low gain is quite significant in terms of impact at the lower end and all around thickness of sound. The HD800 does sound light without the High Gain on (with the Hugo).


Does the high-gain have same output impedance with low-gain? 

The Hugo 1 does have a thin sound. That is why I never liked it.


----------



## ColtMrFire (Dec 1, 2018)

I can confirm the 800 is best with tubes.  I've owned both ss and tube amps with this headphone and tubes were always better at maximizing the HPs strengthens (holographic staging, plankton, microdynamics, warmth, etc) and diminishing it's weaknesses (brightness, sterility, thinness, etc)

Torpedo 3 is one of the best tube amps under $1K for this headphone bar none (besting or equaling tube amps twice it's price)  If you can find one used consider yourself lucky.  The newly released T4 is supposed to be even better but it's twice as expensive.

A much cheaper but very good option is Valhalla 2 with the 6CG7 tubes to remove the inherent haziness of the amp and add needed punch.  Lyr 3 is supposed to be very good for it as well but I haven't heard that amp.


----------



## Rayzilla

omniweltall said:


> Does the high-gain have same output impedance with low-gain?
> 
> The Hugo 1 does have a thin sound. That is why I never liked it.


I am getting a DIY cable made for the HD800 with a balanced 4.4 connection so that I can pair it with my DX200 with either AMP4 or AMP8. When I tried it with AMP7 single ended, it sounded pretty good already. It did not sound thin.

I'll have to check the specs on the M9 to answer your question but I don't have the time right now.


----------



## ruthieandjohn (Dec 1, 2018)

The HD800 is SUCH a classic! Over nine years old, and it STILL is widely acknowledged as one of the best and even, according to many, able to outstrip its successor, the HD800S, in certain areas.  Has there been any other headphone so long lived at the summit?  Perhaps a Beyer?


----------



## ColtMrFire (Dec 1, 2018)

People like to crap on the 800 because they say it's "sterile", has a treble peak, bass light, etc.  The great thing about the HP is it's neutrality, so that you can dial in the flavors your want with upstream gear.  I've heard this headphone sound warm, bassy, full, etc.  It just depends on the amp/tubes/DAC, even cables have a major effect.  It's a chameleon and when paired with the right amp it's audio Nirvana.  I've never really had the euphonic experiences I've had with the 800 with any other headphone.  With well mastered classical music it's just orgasmic.

Having the right amp is key though.  There aren't many amps under a $1K that can really show you what it's made of.  I feel very lucky to have the T3.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I love mine with the Sennheiser HDVD800 DAC/amp!


----------



## Rayzilla

ruthieandjohn said:


> I love mine with the Sennheiser HDVD800 DAC/amp!


Aren't you the one with the very nice red and black paint job on both the HD800 and the HDVD800? Show us again.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Rayzilla said:


> Aren't you the one with the very nice red and black paint job on both the HD800 and the HDVD800? Show us again.


Indeed I am.. your wish, my command!


----------



## Rayzilla

ruthieandjohn said:


> Indeed I am.. your wish, my command!


Nice! I guess if I were to do one, I would have to choose my hometown Blue and White in honour of my favourite NHL team, who just allowed a goal by Minnesota as I type.


----------



## Deftone (Dec 2, 2018)

So its coming up to the 10th anniversary of HD800 and there hasn't been a new dynamic flagship since, the other "flavours" 800S & 820 dont count.

Any whisperings of a new special headphone or flagship? surely its been long enough to warrant a HD900 by now...


----------



## ColtMrFire

Sennheiser has pulled some weird moves lately.  The 660 seems like an inferior mix of the 600/650 (doesn't scale as well, slightly lacking technicalities), made more for portables.  The 820 is a closed back 800, which doesn't make alot of sense to me considering the 800 is famous for it's open and airy sound, and the 820 is supposed to be not as good.

The company seems to be making alot of sidegrades rather than upgrades, so you have to wonder if they have something up their sleeve.  They're becoming a bit of a joke to me lately.


----------



## Deftone

ColtMrFire said:


> Sennheiser has pulled some weird moves lately.  The 660 seems like an inferior mix of the 600/650 (doesn't scale as well, slightly lacking technicalities), made more for portables.  The 820 is a closed back 800, which doesn't make alot of sense to me considering the 800 is famous for it's open and airy sound, and the 820 is supposed to be not as good.
> 
> The company seems to be making alot of sidegrades rather than upgrades, so you have to wonder if they have something up their sleeve.  They're becoming a bit of a joke to me lately.



I agree its quite unusual, even IE80 and IE800 were altered to the S models.


----------



## Mikey99 (Dec 3, 2018)

Deftone said:


> I agree its quite unusual, even IE80 and IE800 were altered to the S models.


The original was pretty much the best you could get at the time, and it is still competive years later, especially at their current price. Others have cought up or surpassed as one might expect, but is is still interesting to see that almost invariably people will compare to the HD800. I have largely moved on from them (at a price), but will still listen to and enjoy them on occasion.

At the time they were in the top price bracket - I recall thinking how crazy expensive they were at the time, and I did hesitate. Now the market has developed such that there are one or two tiers of pricing above it where people (including me) seem willing to spend. So there is room for an “HD900”, and it’s would be interesting to see if they choose to enter this end of the market.

Of course they have done the HE1 but that’s is a niche product. I wonder if they could do something like the old HE90.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I feel like everyone is clamoring for some sort of 6x0/800 hybrid, that magic combo that combines the speed, extreme resolving power and roomy soundstage of the 800 and the warm smoothness and non fatigue of the 6x0 series.  And that seems to be what the Focal Clears are (minus the soundstage) at least from what I've read.

If Sennheiser has something up their sleeve they're going to have to do better than that.  But it's possible we've reached peak HP technology... I mean these things can only be so resolving and smooth until there is nowhere left to go.  Unless you start getting into HE-1 tech at consumer prices, but that would cannibalize that market....


----------



## Nik74

ColtMrFire said:


> I feel like everyone is clamoring for some sort of 6x0/800 hybrid, that magic combo that combines the speed, extreme resolving power and roomy soundstage of the 800 and the warm smoothness and non fatigue of the 6x0 series.  And that seems to be what the Focal Clears are (minus the soundstage) at least from what I've read.
> 
> If Sennheiser has something up their sleeve they're going to have to do better than that.  But it's possible we've reached peak HP technology... I mean these things can only be so resolving and smooth until there is nowhere left to go.  Unless you start getting into HE-1 tech at consumer prices, but that would cannibalize that market....



I think the Clear is a completely different bag of tricks. Doesn't remind me of 650 at all. Yes they are quite resolving but they don't have that midrange magic, in my opinion always...


----------



## zakazak

Anyone knows how the Burson Soloist SL Mk2 pairs with the HD800?

Or maybe someone can recommend another DAC + AMP for max. 1500€? The Soloist SL is ~350-470€. Would need a decent DAC for it as well (recommendations?).


----------



## ColtMrFire

I mean if you have a 1500 budget, you're better off with a TOTL amp, which is what the HD800 craves.  Never heard the soloist, but from everything I've read it is a decidedly mid-fi amp.  You could look for a used Torpedo 3 or Eddie Current Black Widow both usually under $1K, and just get the Modi multibit DAC which is very competitive with TOTL DACs.  Just my recommendation but I've heard alot of mid-fi amps and the 800 just goes to a whole different level with TOTL components.


----------



## zakazak

ColtMrFire said:


> I mean if you have a 1500 budget, you're better off with a TOTL amp, which is what the HD800 craves.  Never heard the soloist, but from everything I've read it is a decidedly mid-fi amp.  You could look for a used Torpedo 3 or Eddie Current Black Widow both usually under $1K, and just get the Modi multibit DAC which is very competitive with TOTL DACs.  Just my recommendation but I've heard alot of mid-fi amps and the 800 just goes to a whole different level with TOTL components.



What is TOTL? 

I wouldnt mind if DAC+Amp would cost less than 1500€  I can get the Soloist pretty cheap right now though. 
Tube sounds and looks interesting I think I dont want to go tube.


----------



## ColtMrFire (Dec 3, 2018)

zakazak said:


> What is TOTL?
> 
> I wouldnt mind if DAC+Amp would cost less than 1500€  I can get the Soloist pretty cheap right now though.
> Tube sounds and looks interesting I think I dont want to go tube.



Top Of The Line (summit-fi), basically rising above the mediocre (comparatively) and into the exceptional.  Not that mid-fi sounds bad, not at all, alot of it sounds great, especially the Schiit stuff.  And probably the Soloist. But it's a bit like the difference between a Mustang and a Ferrari.  The former is an excellent car.  That latter is just in a different class entirely and performs at a higher level.

In my experience the 800 sounds great from certain mid-fi amps.  But it doesn't really show it's true colors until it's paired with more exceptional gear.  The headphone is a chameleon and scales like mad.  It is a TOTL headphone, so obviously pairs best with TOTL amps.

Anyway these are just my thoughts.


----------



## omniweltall

But the secret in audio is that differences in mustangs and ferraris are not as pronouced. A lot of mid-fi gears sound better than summit-fi. People tend to be biased toward expensive gears.


----------



## ColtMrFire (Dec 3, 2018)

omniweltall said:


> But the secret in audio is that differences in mustangs and ferraris are not as pronouced. A lot of mid-fi gears sound better than summit-fi. People tend to be biased toward expensive gears.



Any summit fi that sounds worse than mid fi is not true summit fi.  I'm talking about gear that actually performs.

You're right that there are alot of imposters. Alot of snakeoil.  That's why it's better to get informed opinions and not hype.

And yes, difference can be exaggerated, but generally really good gear is gonna perform better with headphones that actually scale.

The 800 is great in that it will not lie to you about how good (or not) your chain is.  Torpedo 3 and Black Widow are definitely not imposters.  Ragnarok is also TOTL but just barely.  T3 I feel is better.

Ultimately if you want the best for the 800, no shortcuts.


----------



## nephilim32

You know something fellas .I use the Burson Soloist with my chord Qutest DAC set at 3V RMS and that is a really damn good pairing for the HD 800 C's . Not much better that you can get for that price and performance . Only different . I doubt buying a Pass labs HPA 1 or Bakoon HPA 21 would tighten up my sound chain.


----------



## zakazak

nephilim32 said:


> You know something fellas .I use the Burson Soloist with my chord Qutest DAC set at 3V RMS and that is a really damn good pairing for the HD 800 C's . Not much better that you can get for that price and performance . Only different . I doubt buying a Pass labs HPA 1 or Bakoon HPA 21 would tighten up my sound chain.



Hmm its too bad that not many have the Soloist SL. There are nearly no comparisons to other amps making me wonder if maybe other stuff for the same price might be just as good :/


----------



## nephilim32

zakazak said:


> Hmm its too bad that not many have the Soloist SL. There are nearly no comparisons to other amps making me wonder if maybe other stuff for the same price might be just as good :/



You know what It is it's the Qutest that takes the Burson to a higher level because of the 3 volts RMS . You get way more power and clarity by giving the soloist a high end DAC. The Qutest is not cheap and for good reason .
I have heard very expensive Macintosh solid state amps with MOSFET design and it doesn't slay the Burson with the Qutest. 
Lots of solid state amps sound very similar . the only differences are that some solid state amps are more resolving at higher volumes. I like to listen to my music very loud provided I have awesome recordings. The Burson you can absolutely crank with the Qutest. Has a ton of resolve, but again You need a great DAC .


----------



## zakazak

nephilim32 said:


> You know what It is it's the Qutest that takes the Burson to a higher level because of the 3 volts RMS . You get way more power and clarity by giving the soloist a high end DAC. The Qutest is not cheap and for good reason .
> I have heard very expensive Macintosh solid state amps with MOSFET design and it doesn't slay the Burson with the Qutest.
> Lots of solid state amps sound very similar . the only differences are that some solid state amps are more resolving at higher volumes. I like to listen to my music very loud provided I have awesome recordings. The Burson you can absolutely crank with the Qutest. Has a ton of resolve, but again You need a great DAC .



Does the Soloist SL Mk2 also have the Qutest you are refering too?  I see you seem to have the Mk1?


----------



## nephilim32

zakazak said:


> Does the Soloist SL Mk2 also have the Qutest you are refering too?  I see you seem to have the Mk1?


sorry .no .it is the SOLOIST SL . Bought it 2014. Still love it because that bloody Qutest took my power supply further .


----------



## DavidA

zakazak said:


> What is TOTL?
> 
> I wouldnt mind if DAC+Amp would cost less than 1500€  I can get the Soloist pretty cheap right now though.
> Tube sounds and looks interesting I think I dont want to go tube.



For the HD800 I think tubes are the way to go, more specifically an OTL amp since most OTL amp have slightly higher output impedance it better matches the HD800 but there are a few SS and hybrid amps that I've heard that really pair well with the HD800.  Its more a matter of personal preference at this level but I can understand why some will stay away from tubes, it can be quite a rabbit hole but it also can be really fun and rewarding.  I like my BH Crack paired with my HD800, T1gen1, HD700, etc and while I've heard my HD800 on better (higher priced) amps (Liquid Glass, DarkStar, EC Balancing Act, EC ZDS2, MicroZOTL, Elise and a few others I'm really happy with the BH Crack since its fairly cheap and sounds great to me.  Yes the other higher end amps might sound better to others but to me its just a different flavor, not better IMO.


----------



## zakazak

DavidA said:


> For the HD800 I think tubes are the way to go, more specifically an OTL amp since most OTL amp have slightly higher output impedance it better matches the HD800 but there are a few SS and hybrid amps that I've heard that really pair well with the HD800.  Its more a matter of personal preference at this level but I can understand why some will stay away from tubes, it can be quite a rabbit hole but it also can be really fun and rewarding.  I like my BH Crack paired with my HD800, T1gen1, HD700, etc and while I've heard my HD800 on better (higher priced) amps (Liquid Glass, DarkStar, EC Balancing Act, EC ZDS2, MicroZOTL, Elise and a few others I'm really happy with the BH Crack since its fairly cheap and sounds great to me.  Yes the other higher end amps might sound better to others but to me its just a different flavor, not better IMO.



Ye I would love to get a BH Crack Speedball but here in Europe its a pain to get it...



nephilim32 said:


> sorry .no .it is the SOLOIST SL . Bought it 2014. Still love it because that bloody Qutest took my power supply further .



Uhm Solist SL Mk2 or non-Mk2? I would buy the Mk2 which is the "newest" generarion.


----------



## dharma

Mikey99 said:


> The original was pretty much the best you could get at the time, and it is still competive years later, especially at their current price. Others have cought up or surpassed as one might expect, but is is still interesting to see that almost invariably people will compare to the HD800. I have largely moved on from them (at a price), but will still listen to and enjoy them on occasion.
> 
> At the time they were in the top price bracket - I recall thinking how crazy expensive they were at the time, and I did hesitate. Now the market has developed such that there are one or two tiers of pricing above it where people (including me) seem willing to spend. So there is room for an “HD900”, and it’s would be interesting to see if they choose to enter this end of the market.
> 
> Of course they have done the HE1 but that’s is a niche product. I wonder if they could do something like the old HE90.


___
It seems, that Sennheiser is going on with 80x the same way as it did with 6x0... this means 'for years to come'. So I am keeping too my 'old' 800 going on with my listening habits and also for editing my video soundtracks (mostly cultural events and lecturers i.e. maybe most important: a human voice).
Sure, I would not be against something that would combine 800 strengths with a 'hint of non fatigue smoothness in upper part'. 
Also hoped that there will be some 'stripped-down'/'consumer level' HE1, but it seems that Sennheiser keeps again 'traditional' position: top of the line 'electrostatics' are not 'simplified' [or would I better say 'downgraded'] to a consumer level?


----------



## DavidA

zakazak said:


> Ye I would love to get a BH Crack Speedball but here in Europe its a pain to get it...
> 
> 
> 
> Uhm Solist SL Mk2 or non-Mk2? I would buy the Mk2 which is the "newest" generarion.


Since your budget is quite high the Elise is made in Poland so it might be easier to get and its a pretty good pairing with the HD800 even with the stock tubes.  Its a fairly versatile amp that can roll many different tubes that will alter the sound quite a bit so in that sense it can be made to pair with a wider variety of headphones where the BH Crack is a bit limited in this since its output impedance is quite high 75-120 ohms (depends on power tubes) while the Elise is quite a bit lower IIRC.

Two of the better reasonable SS pairings that I liked with the HD800 was the original Hugo which can be had quite a bit cheaper these days and also the Liquid Carbon (not the massdrop one).


----------



## nephilim32

[QUOTE="



Uhm Solist SL Mk2 or non-Mk2? I would buy the Mk2 which is the "newest" generarion.[/QUOTE]

The MK2 is newest however the SL is more expensive .


----------



## nephilim32

Anyone find that the HD 800 is quite non fatiguing when listening to well mastered recordings? I do . I can listen for hrs and hrs on end provided the recordings are nice. 
I know very well as the many of you do that the 800's absolutely suck when you have poor sources, especially music recordings .
Honestly . Try listening to a Disturbed album at 50 db . I bet none of you would last 5 mins with that crap . The 800's are certainly the most critical headphone I know. I love them and hate them for that characteristic . They taught me a lot about how my music should really sound, but at the same time that is both a curse and a blessing to know such things .
Since 2009 has their ever been a more critical and reavealing headphone? I think not. Some argue that the stax 009 would match the 800 for sterile criticism, however due to the unatural width that the 800's have I think they are the most revealing. 
Just my 2 cents, since we are approaching 10 years since this wonderful headphone has been around. It has been a pleasure. I have had my 800's since 2012 and have catered the best I could a system built for its needs .I have to say it was not easy and money had to spent...a lot of it but my god it was and still is to me...totally worth it. 

Happy listening everyone .


----------



## Deftone

zakazak said:


> Ye I would love to get a BH Crack Speedball but here in Europe its a pain to get it...



cshop87 on Etsy sells pre build bottlheads for people in europe.


----------



## Deftone

nephilim32 said:


> Anyone find that the HD 800 is quite non fatiguing when listening to well mastered recordings? I do . I can listen for hrs and hrs on end provided the recordings are nice.
> I know very well as the many of you do that the 800's absolutely suck when you have poor sources, especially music recordings .
> Honestly . Try listening to a Disturbed album at 50 db . I bet none of you would last 5 mins with that **** . The 800's are certainly the most critical headphone I know. I love them and hate them for that characteristic . They taught me a lot about how my music should really sound, but at the same time that is both a curse and a blessing to know such things .
> Since 2009 has their ever been a more critical and reavealing headphone? I think not. Some argue that the stax 009 would match the 800 for sterile criticism, however due to the unatural width that the 800's have I think they are the most revealing.
> ...



I have around 500 albums and only about 7 of them have excellent dynamic range and mastering. HD800 gives me the ugly truth so i have to rely on my HD650 to "beautify" my CDs so i can actually enjoy them through HiFi.


----------



## nephilim32

Deftone said:


> I have around 500 albums and only about 7 of them have excellent dynamic range and mastering. HD800 gives me the ugly truth so i have to rely on my HD650 to "beautify" my CDs so i can actually enjoy them through HiFi.



Hi there. 
You gotta look to and by original sound recordings from the 80's .
Don't buy remastered or reissued cds.  For instance . Look at Iron Maiden albums compared to the 1998 and 2015 remasters. Compression is an ugly thing, especially with the 800's. 
Anyhow .there are so many nicely recorded albums out there provided you like 80's and some early 90's music .
I will give you 3 albums to listen to with your 800's and you tell me if they sound bad fidelity wise .

Bryan Ferry-- Boys & Girls (1985) (pop, groove rock)
Iron maiden-- The X Factor or No Prayer for the Dying. (1995, 1985) (prog metal,)
The D.O.C-- No one can do it better ( 1989) (old school hip hop) 

Get originals on cd. Trust me .if you like how these sound I can give you plenty more!


----------



## Deftone

i do buy original copies when available to avoid bad remasters but nearly all my music is 1995 onwards and i only like metal and all its sub genres maybe a bit of rock really so its just a difficult place to be stuck in, still with that said ill take my crappy modern metal recordings of well recorded 1950s jazz and classical because its just not my thing.


----------



## nephilim32 (Dec 3, 2018)

Deftone said:


> i do buy original copies when available to avoid bad remasters but nearly all my music is 1995 onwards and i only like metal and all its sub genres maybe a bit of rock really so its just a difficult place to be stuck in, still with that said ill take my ****ty modern metal recordings of well recorded 1950s jazz and classical because its just not my thing.



Sure . I understand and I feel where your mind is at .
So 1995 and onwards the cd starts to get massively mistreated . the loudness wars really took full force by 1997 . Deadly compression rears its ugly head in just about every music genre, especially metal! In fact, metal is the biggest culprit for that shrill, crushed sound .
As I said . You gotta get original 80's pressings. You said you like metal .
Okay. Try Sepultura, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, The first 3 Paradise Lost albums, Artica, Anthrax, queensyrche, Fates Warning and The first 2 dream theater and rage against the machine albums .

Get all their albums from the 80's up to early 90's. Tons of dynamic range .
Great recordings . Very warm and inviting. Some aren't perfect recordings but at least they are highly listenable because they are recorded at much lower volumes.
I feel your pain though . There really is not a ton of metal out there that is even listenable. It is a tough genre but their is some that is utterly fantastic that you can crank as loud as you want.

Oh and the DIO albums!! They are great! From 1983 to 1995. All are awesome .

That should tie you over .


----------



## omniweltall

nephilim32 said:


> You know what It is it's the Qutest that takes the Burson to a higher level because of the 3 volts RMS . You get way more power and clarity by giving the soloist a high end DAC. The Qutest is not cheap and for good reason .
> I have heard very expensive Macintosh solid state amps with MOSFET design and it doesn't slay the Burson with the Qutest.
> Lots of solid state amps sound very similar . the only differences are that some solid state amps are more resolving at higher volumes. I like to listen to my music very loud provided I have awesome recordings. The Burson you can absolutely crank with the Qutest. Has a ton of resolve, but again You need a great DAC .


Fat margin and dealer fee? 

We're talking about audio here, mate. In reality, nothing really slays anything. I have heard over $100k piece of DCS stack.  it doesn't slay anything too. In fact, I struggled to find noticeable strengths over much cheaper gears.


----------



## DavidA

nephilim32 said:


> Anyone find that the HD 800 is quite non fatiguing when listening to well mastered recordings? I do . I can listen for hrs and hrs on end provided the recordings are nice.
> I know very well as the many of you do that the 800's absolutely suck when you have poor sources, especially music recordings .
> Honestly . Try listening to a Disturbed album at 50 db . I bet none of you would last 5 mins with that **** . The 800's are certainly the most critical headphone I know. I love them and hate them for that characteristic . They taught me a lot about how my music should really sound, but at the same time that is both a curse and a blessing to know such things .
> Since 2009 has their ever been a more critical and reavealing headphone? I think not. Some argue that the stax 009 would match the 800 for sterile criticism, however due to the unatural width that the 800's have I think they are the most revealing.
> ...


Agree that what genres one listens to plays a fairly large part in what headphones an individual will like.  Since I like mostly jazz, classical, blues, and classic rock/rock the HD800 is a decent headphone for these genres but when I want to listen to newer pop, R&B, jpop, kpop and EDM I'd never reach for the HD800, HE560 or T1gen1 but more forgiving headphones like HD650, LCD-2f, EL-8, SRH-1840 or the newest addition HD58X.

I used to have a SR009 but traded it to a friend due to the fact that its even more genre limited than the HD800 IMO but with high quality classical recordings they can't be beat IMO.


----------



## nephilim32

omniweltall said:


> Fat margin and dealer fee?
> 
> We're talking about audio here, mate. In reality, nothing really slays anything. I have heard over $100k piece of DCS stack.  it doesn't slay anything too. In fact, I struggled to find noticeable strengths over much cheaper gears.



Maybe you just find subtle differences then, but over longer listening sessions those subtleties might become quite large with in your listening sessions . 
I have only biggy'd up the Qutest because that DAC saved me from having to buy a more expensive amp. I am real happy about that. 
This special interest of ours is expensive, but of course I know there is no best headphone...DAC...amp etc. Only different. You would think with the price point of some gear v.s other gear that the price increase would justify the performance increase . Doesn't always...sadly.


----------



## nephilim32

DavidA said:


> Agree that what genres one listens to plays a fairly large part in what headphones an individual will like.  Since I like mostly jazz, classical, blues, and classic rock/rock the HD800 is a decent headphone for these genres but when I want to listen to newer pop, R&B, jpop, kpop and EDM I'd never reach for the HD800, HE560 or T1gen1 but more forgiving headphones like HD650, LCD-2f, EL-8, SRH-1840 or the newest addition HD58X.
> 
> I used to have a SR009 but traded it to a friend due to the fact that its even more genre limited than the HD800 IMO but with high quality classical recordings they can't be beat IMO.



Certainly there are more suitable headphone sound sigs that Really do some music genres true justice . Absolutely . However, my feeling is the hd 800's can really kickass with quite a lot of music genres, but it usually always comes down to the mix and mastering process of that music to be acceptable listening pleasure. 
I think you are dead right about the stax for classical music though .


----------



## zakazak

nephilim32 said:


> [QUOTE="
> 
> 
> 
> Uhm Solist SL Mk2 or non-Mk2? I would buy the Mk2 which is the "newest" generarion.



The MK2 is newest however the SL is more expensive .[/QUOTE]

And more expensive = better? 
I thought the Mk2 would be an improvement and there for better.


----------



## zakazak

Deftone said:


> cshop87 on Etsy sells pre build bottlheads for people in europe.



Ships from united states.. 90$ shipping + 100$ taxes + custom duties + custom handling fee... 300$ in total or so that I would need to pay additionally.


----------



## omniweltall (Dec 4, 2018)

ColtMrFire said:


> Any summit fi that sounds worse than mid fi is not true summit fi.  I'm talking about gear that actually performs.
> 
> You're right that there are alot of imposters. Alot of snakeoil.  That's why it's better to get informed opinions and not hype.
> 
> ...


Too bad I havent tried the T3 and Black Widow, but trusted ears say very good things about its synergy with hd800. T3 would be a better deal in the secondary market, compared the black widow, but it has limitation in driving planars. Both are highly recommended amps.

The hd800 is actually the can that is stopping me from buying a lot of newer cans that I tried. The improvement delta is just not there. If anything, many newer cans are still below its overall performance. Now, my hd800 is not lean and mean. It sounds thick and has plenty of bass slam. Sounds fantastic even for rock.

I only buy new cans if they bring enough different flavor to hd800.


----------



## Rayzilla

omniweltall said:


> Too bad I havent tried the T3 and Black Widow, but trusted ears say very good things about its synergy with hd800. T3 would be a better deal in the secondary market, compared the black widow, but it has limitation in driving planars. Both are highly recommended amps.
> 
> The hd800 is actually the can that is stopping me from buying a lot of newer cans that I tried. The improvement delta is just not there. If anything, many newer cans are still below its overall performance. Now, my hd800 is not lean and mean. It sounds thick and has plenty of bass slam. Sounds fantastic even for rock.
> 
> I only buy new cans if they bring enough different flavor to hd800.


Well said. And if it wasn't for my weak mind and addiction, I would have stopped at the HD800. Now pairing it with the Master 9 on High gain, it has a new life again.


----------



## zakazak (Dec 4, 2018)

Someone lists thr Burson Soloist as a rather bad amp for the HD800.

I am really unsure what to buy. The most praised one (and there for probably the safest bet) seems to be the BH Crack Speedball... But that means tubes.

Tubes means break in, some time of good usage before the get worse and eventually die 

What I like about the BH Crack is its simplicity. I feel like in 15 years, if something breaks, I will be able to repair it on my own and keep using it for a lifetime?
....or Valhalla 2....:S


----------



## omniweltall (Dec 4, 2018)

zakazak said:


> Someone lists thr Burson Soloist as a rather bad amp for the HD800.
> 
> I am really unsure what to buy. The most praised one (and there for probably the safest bet) seems to be the BH Crack Speedball... But that means tubes.
> 
> ...


You see, other than technicalities, audio gears are very very much into synergy. I would rate synergy and tonality first before technicalities. Many times less capable amps can sound better due to synergy. And I see a lot of people get mixed up between these 2. Someone tries an amp and praise it to the moon, only to realize it doesn't do so well with some songs, or with other cans.

I had the Burson Conductor and then switched it to the CV2+. Quite familiar with Burson tonality. The Burson (Conductor) previously had rather warmish tonality and more boomy bass. Soundstage was wider but less precise. More diffused. I think they changed this right at the CV1 offering. My CV2+ sounds thinner and tighter, including soundstage and bass. Brighter too. Technicality has gone up one notch, but a different tonality altogether. The Conductor matched the HD800 better tonality wise, but I didn't like the boomy bass and diffuse soundstage. And for me, CV2+ itself matches planar better. I don't feel it is a good match with HD800/650/650. I drive all these of them with my tube amp.

Don't worry about tube lifespan. I just bought a new set of tubes for my tube amp. I think worry about tubes are mostly unjustified. A lot of people (including myself in the past) have reservations about tubes, and missed all the fun. I'm not saying tube amps are better than solid states. They each bring different things to the table, but I mostly use tube amps now.

Get a tube amp that use commonly available tubes, or hybrid amps that only use simple tubes. And just enjoy it. Some strong choices below to consider:
- Maxed-out T3
- Schiit Lyr 3
- Massdrop ZD Jr.
- A&S Kenzie
- Used DNA Sonett
- MCTH

But remember, every amp has its strengths and shortcomings, depending on song tracks and gear synergy (headphone, source). It is like looking for a girlfriend. There is no perfect one. But you are looking for an overall good one, and with strengths that match your tonal and song preferences. But don't get disappointed if you find one or two shortcomings from her in the future. Even DNA Stellaris and EC Studio have shortcomings.


----------



## ColtMrFire

DavidA said:


> Agree that what genres one listens to plays a fairly large part in what headphones an individual will like.  Since I like mostly jazz, classical, blues, and classic rock/rock the HD800 is a decent headphone for these genres but when I want to listen to newer pop, R&B, jpop, kpop and EDM I'd never reach for the HD800, HE560 or T1gen1 but more forgiving headphones like HD650, LCD-2f, EL-8, SRH-1840 or the newest addition HD58X.
> 
> I used to have a SR009 but traded it to a friend due to the fact that its even more genre limited than the HD800 IMO but with high quality classical recordings they can't be beat IMO.



This is also heavily dependent on the amp, especially for the 800.  Solid state generally didn't allow me to listen to alot of popular music with it.  Tubes were better for that.

Also depends on hearing tolerances as some are more sensitive to the 6khz peak than others.  YMMV.  

But yeah, it's going to be brutal about badly mastered albums.


----------



## ColtMrFire (Dec 4, 2018)

zakazak said:


> Someone lists thr Burson Soloist as a rather bad amp for the HD800.
> 
> I am really unsure what to buy. The most praised one (and there for probably the safest bet) seems to be the BH Crack Speedball... But that means tubes.
> 
> ...



If you're looking to go cheaper, Valhalla 2 with the 6CG7 tubes is pretty amazing for it.  I owned it until I bumped up to T3.  The only limitation of that amp is that it has a bit of a haze to it and a lack of slam, but euphonics, holographic staging, plankton, microdynamics, are all very high, which is what the 800 needs to scale.  The 6CG7 tubes remove the haziness and adds some slam.

The V2 is highly regarded as THE amp for the 800 under $500.  For a little more, Lyr 3 is supposed to be excellent but I haven't heard it.  V2 is not terribly tube-y sounding either but has all the best qualities tubes offer.  I think you may really enjoy this pairing.  Schiit also has a 15 day return policy so you can send it back if you don't like it.  But the 6CG7 tubes are kind of a must IMO.


----------



## zakazak

Thanks guys... so:

Burson Soloist SL Mk2 (Non-Tube) - 350€
Not many reviews, not many comparisons, some say yes, some say no.

Schiit Valhalla 2 (Tube) - 400€
Widely known, seems to be often recommended for the HD800.

Bottlehead Crack Speedball (Tube) - 700€
High impedance for HD800

Whats else could I add to the list? So far I would prefer either the Soloist or the Valhalla 2.


----------



## omniweltall

zakazak said:


> Thanks guys... so:
> 
> Burson Soloist SL Mk2 (Non-Tube) - 350€
> Not many reviews, not many comparisons, some say yes, some say no.
> ...


Skip the Burson. Better for planars.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 4, 2018)

zakazak said:


> Thanks guys... so:
> 
> Burson Soloist SL Mk2 (Non-Tube) - 350€
> Not many reviews, not many comparisons, some say yes, some say no.
> ...


I'd take the Valhalla2 of the list since it wasn't a good pairing with the HD800 when I tried it, sound was a bit thin and sibilant at times and even rolling driver tubes didn't help much.  I think that the power tubes used has more of an influence on the Valhalla2 and since there are very few option IIRC its not as versatile IMO.
Have you tried looking for a used Liquid Carbon or Hugo?  These are 2 of the better SS amps IMO and what I would consider if I was looking for a non-tube solution.  One other SS amp that I'd consider is Teac HA-501, a pretty good versatile amp due to its ability to vary the output resistance to better match various headphones.

These work wonders with all headphones and amps combinations:

​but the effects are only temporary


----------



## zakazak

Oh lol... 

The recommendations you are giving arent obtainable in Europe.


----------



## ColtMrFire (Dec 4, 2018)

DavidA said:


> I'd take the Valhalla2 of the list since it wasn't a good pairing with the HD800



Just for objectivity sake, this is the opposite of what most people say about the pairing.  Not that your opinion doesn't count... not everyone will like the V2, but I think Zakazak is looking for the GENERAL consensus on gear, and generally V2 is highly recommended for the 800 in online circles.  As I said, the 6CG7 tubes have a bigger effect on the sound than the standard 6DJ8, 6BZ7, 6922, ECC88 tube families I rolled.  In fact, I would not recommend the V2 _without_ the 6CG7 tubes for the 800, as they also removed the thin/dry treble sound.  And with Schiit's 15 day return policy, it has extra safety in being a good buy.

Zakazak, if you do end up pulling the trigger on the V2, I would suggest ordering some 6CG7 tubes at the same time, so they arrive along with the amp (or soon after), so you don't have a big gap eating into the 15 day trial period.  Worst case scenario, you can always sell it on head fi, Schiit amps are always in demand.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Also, with regard to the future of the Sennheiser sound we discussed earlier, I bumped into this video of Tyll talking about that very thing, and he has first hand knowledge of the direction they're head (which admittedly sounds weird).  Starts at 7:40 in the video.


----------



## Nik74

@zakazak I may have missed that part of the discussion but are you able to audition some of the amps you are shortlisting ?
Unfortunately objectivity is a very vague concept in this hobby and ultimately only your ears can decide. 
Opinions range not only regarding tubes or solid state or individual amps but also towards the headphone itself. Yesterday I saw the 800 mentioned by a number of people in a thread about their worst headphone experience -  crazy I know but different strokes for different folks

With a headphone like the 800 a good pairing for me could be a meh pairing for you so take what you read as indication of possibilities rather than recommendations 

If I add my side to this and suggest another possibility: a used Hugo can be had for €600 these days and is an amazing dac for the price. Your 800 might want more current than the Hugo amp can give it to really bloom but then you could add the crack or later on a higher end tube amp. Please see this as another route towards 800 synergy , it’s not a recommendation


----------



## ColtMrFire

Nik74 said:


> @zakazak
> Yesterday I saw the 800 mentioned by a number of people in a thread about their worst headphone experience -  crazy I know but different strokes for different folks



Unsurprising, as the 800 is like a highly tuned Formula 1 car... extremely sensitive to components but performs like a monster when done right.  Not liking?  Okay.  But I don't imagine anyone _hating_ the 800 if heard with the proper amp... certainly not when heard from the right TOTL amp.  It's a shame really, because it's an amazing piece of German engineering that can be severely misunderstood.


----------



## omniweltall (Dec 4, 2018)

Earlier in my audio journey, I had a listen to HD800 in a shop, then completely ignored it (sounded too thin, bright with no bass) and skipped to the next TOTL. That was the dumbest choice ever, as I had a series of bad experience with headphones. It took me about a year to come back to the HD800, when someone let me have a listen to his HD800. Actually I came across to HD650 first, then back to HD800. I just recently bought an HD600. My headphone experienced only began to stabilize after HD650/800. Those two are my benchmark.

Point is...you gotta tweak it first and create a system around it. Even a simple EQ on the bass will improve its sound.


----------



## Nik74

My imaginary end game TOTL for the 800(S) is the EAR HP4 according to the descriptions and comparisons that I have so far read. DNA Stratus and the Zana Deux are other TOTL winners but produced on the other side of the pond so for a UK enthusiast a little trickier perhaps...


----------



## DavidA

ColtMrFire said:


> Just for objectivity sake, this is the opposite of what most people say about the pairing.  Not that your opinion doesn't count... not everyone will like the V2, but I think Zakazak is looking for the GENERAL consensus on gear, and generally V2 is highly recommended for the 800 in online circles.  As I said, the 6CG7 tubes have a bigger effect on the sound than the standard 6DJ8, 6BZ7, 6922, ECC88 tube families I rolled.  In fact, I would not recommend the V2 _without_ the 6CG7 tubes for the 800, as they also removed the thin/dry treble sound.  And with Schiit's 15 day return policy, it has extra safety in being a good buy.
> 
> Zakazak, if you do end up pulling the trigger on the V2, I would suggest ordering some 6CG7 tubes at the same time, so they arrive along with the amp (or soon after), so you don't have a big gap eating into the 15 day trial period.  Worst case scenario, you can always sell it on head fi, Schiit amps are always in demand.



Everyone that I know who owned the V2 (4 total) ended up selling it since it a bit thin and dry sounding no matter what driver tubes were used and all didn't like it paired with the HD800 and other headphones like the HD700,  T1gen1, DT990, DT1990 and HD600.   The only headphone that some liked the V2 paired with was the HD650.  I don't know if anyone of the owners tried a 6cg7 but one thing they all noted was that the V2 wasn't very responsive to different driver tubes which is why I think its the power tubes that have the most influence in sound of the V2.

@zakazak, I have a few friends that hate the HD800 since it sound really artificial to them even out of an amp like the Liquid Glass and EC Balancing Act which just shows how different we all hear so it come down to listening for your self to see if you like it or not.


----------



## ColtMrFire

DavidA said:


> I don't know if anyone of the owners tried a 6cg7 but one thing they all noted was that the V2 wasn't very responsive to different driver tubes



I already mentioned this in my previous post, but the only tubes that changed the sound sig most were the 6CG7 tubes.  It is a very different sound and works better from my experience.  The V2 without them is a bit hazy and a bit dry in the treble.


----------



## nephilim32

zakazak said:


> Thanks guys... so:
> 
> Burson Soloist SL Mk2 (Non-Tube) - 350€
> Not many reviews, not many comparisons, some say yes, some say no.
> ...



And the Pass Labs HPA-1 3500$ USD .  Lol


----------



## zakazak

Oh boy...those choices... Any more recmendations? Preferable smth that geta also sold in the EU


----------



## ColtMrFire

None that I've heard, but plenty of online love for these paired with the 800:

Bryston BHA-1 (if you want solid state... used units are a little over $1K)
Schiit Vali 2 (cheapest option I believe, but high price/performance ratio)
Schiit Mjolnir 2 (but you can get a used T3/BW for around the same price of a new MJ2, and those are supposedly better)
DNA Sonnett 2 
Garage 1217 Horizon 3

You've got some researching to do...


----------



## nephilim32

zakazak said:


> Oh boy...those choices... Any more recmendations? Preferable smth that geta also sold in the EU



I really believe the Burson is a steal for the price, but it really doesn't matter what I think because you yourself have to audition amps with the 800's . Like most say on here the 800's are picky and tricky. System synergies are no joke with the 800's but I find that is some of the beauty about this headphone .
800's are truth sayers and reveal so much subtly in amps and DACS, which is why I very much recommend you spend a good 1hr listening and auditioning gear. Take your time. Enjoy the experience .


----------



## ColtMrFire

Part of the journey and fun of this hobby is just being experienced with alot of different equipment.  That means you may buy an amp and it won't work out.  But the important thing is you start gaining knowledge about your taste and what you perfer and don't prefer. That only comes from experience.  Don't put too much pressure to find the perfect amp right away.  Took me a couple years and several amps until I got the right match.


----------



## DavidA

zakazak said:


> Oh boy...those choices... Any more recmendations? Preferable smth that geta also sold in the EU


A few more choices: G-109 or any of other higher Vioelectric amps (I've only heard G-109 and V281), Icon Audio HP8 Mk2, WA3, WA6 and AudioGD NFB-1 (haven't heard it be a friend who has one says its good with his HD800 and HE560).


----------



## treebug

ColtMrFire said:


> Part of the journey and fun of this hobby is just being experienced with alot of different equipment.  That means you may buy an amp and it won't work out.  But the important thing is you start gaining knowledge about your taste and what you perfer and don't prefer. That only comes from experience.  Don't put too much pressure to find the perfect amp right away.  Took me a couple years and several amps until I got the right match.



Agree with this, although it took me more than a couple of years! I settled on the HDVA600 and thought it wouldn't get better and then I heard the HD800 through the Luxman P-750u. Incredible detail and soundstage, with the Senn's and every other headphone I've tried with it. Not cheap, but wow!


----------



## CoLdAsSauLt

DavidA said:


> A few more choices: G-109 or any of other higher Vioelectric amps (I've only heard G-109 and V281), Icon Audio HP8 Mk2, WA3, WA6 and AudioGD NFB-1 (haven't heard it be a friend who has one says its good with his HD800 and HE560).



Feliks Audio Elise (v1) wasn't bad at all, a used one might fit into your budget. I sold mine however in favour of my Icon Audio HP8 Mk2. So +1 on that amp . Very European too


----------



## Nik74

I agree the icon does a great job with these and also the 650.
Do you find it an improvement over the Elise then @CoLdAsSauLt ? 
I feel it gets almost everything right


----------



## ColtMrFire

treebug said:


> Agree with this, although it took me more than a couple of years! I settled on the HDVA600 and thought it wouldn't get better and then I heard the HD800 through the Luxman P-750u. Incredible detail and soundstage, with the Senn's and every other headphone I've tried with it. Not cheap, but wow!



Yes, another TOTL amp.  HD800 really comes alive doesn't it?


----------



## Ichos

Buy your self a vali 2 and then save money for a TOTL amp.
But there are chances that you are going to like it so much that you are going
to save yourself money and time!


----------



## Deftone

zakazak said:


> Thanks guys... so:
> 
> Burson Soloist SL Mk2 (Non-Tube) - 350€
> Not many reviews, not many comparisons, some say yes, some say no.
> ...



burson and valhalla 2 are the same in the way they have great detail and macrodynamics BUT they also have a hard edge to the music, very harsh/ strong glare. 

theyre not good even with smooth phones like hd650 so i imagine they would be brutal on HD800.


----------



## Deftone

treebug said:


> Agree with this, although it took me more than a couple of years! I settled on the HDVA600 and thought it wouldn't get better and then I heard the HD800 through the Luxman P-750u. Incredible detail and soundstage, with the Senn's and every other headphone I've tried with it. Not cheap, but wow!



Luxman p750 and chord dave must be magic


----------



## ColtMrFire

Deftone said:


> burson and valhalla 2 are the same in the way they have great detail and macrodynamics BUT they also have a hard edge to the music, very harsh/ strong glare.
> 
> theyre not good even with smooth phones like hd650 so i imagine they would be brutal on HD800.



I guess I'll have to keep repeating this but, the 6CG7 tubes take care of those issues with the V2.    Also V2 does not excel at macrodynamics without those tubes.  It is a fairly soft sounding amp.


----------



## omniweltall

Deftone said:


> burson and valhalla 2 are the same in the way they have great detail and macrodynamics BUT they also have a hard edge to the music, very harsh/ strong glare.
> 
> theyre not good even with smooth phones like hd650 so i imagine they would be brutal on HD800.


Which burson is this, mate? I agree with you but i am curious which burson model. They changed their sound signature along the way.


----------



## Deftone

omniweltall said:


> Which burson is this, mate? I agree with you but i am curious which burson model. They changed their sound signature along the way.



Burson solist mk2


----------



## Deftone

ColtMrFire said:


> I guess I'll have to keep repeating this but, the 6CG7 tubes take care of those issues with the V2.    Also V2 does not excel at macrodynamics without those tubes.  It is a fairly soft sounding amp.



I did tube swaps and it didnt sound soft to me in stock config and couldnt remove the gritty treble either even with expensive tubes.


----------



## MrMan

So I owned HD800 twice. Once with an amp/dac that couldn't power it. And another time with an amp/dac I disliked much because the volume slider would randomly go to 100.  So i am debating on buying for the 3rd time with my favorite amp/dac which I have also owned 3 separate times too.


----------



## ColtMrFire (Dec 6, 2018)

Deftone said:


> I did tube swaps and it didnt sound soft to me in stock config and couldnt remove the gritty treble either even with expensive tubes.



The normal tube family Schiit recommends (6DJ8, 6922 , etc etc) are not going to change the sound much.  The C6G7 tubes are a whole different story.  Not recommended by Schiit, but noticeably change the characteristics of the amp.  Specifically fixing (to a degree) what it is lacking: macrodynamics, clarity.  And fixes what it is doing too much of: dry/sandy treble.  Not a huge change but much more than the standard recommended tube swaps.  People have really not heard what the V2 is capable of until using the 6CG7 tubes.  The only downside is certain brands make the soundstage slightly claustrophobic.  For $350 and those tubes, it is one of the best amps for the 800 under $500.  I haven't heard Lyr 3.


----------



## connieflyer (Dec 6, 2018)

I will just add my experience with the 800 if you don't mind.  I also had the Feliks Elise and found it quite good, when the new Euforia became available I snagged the fifth one and if has been a great performer.  Have been rolling tubes since I got the amp, as well as others on the Euforia thread here on Head Fi, and have now settled on the El38's running them pentode strapped triodes, and with this I have never heard the 800 sing like this.  Even the bass, that while adaequate, never had the quantity or impact that my other phones had, now have much improved bass response and quantity.  Running this off my music pc, with JRiver 23 and the Sonarworks VST anda Schiit Gungnir the presentation is fabulous. So much so that I am going to pick up another pair of 800 phones as a backup. Until the new FA 2A3 amp comes out this is the best I have heard on the 800.


----------



## zakazak

DavidA said:


> A few more choices: G-109 or any of other higher Vioelectric amps (I've only heard G-109 and V281), Icon Audio HP8 Mk2, WA3, WA6 and AudioGD NFB-1 (haven't heard it be a friend who has one says its good with his HD800 and HE560).



Thanks all interesting and in price range (also  Icon Audio HP8 Mk2) but I probably would prefer non-tube.


----------



## DavidA

ColtMrFire said:


> I guess I'll have to keep repeating this but, the 6CG7 tubes take care of those issues with the V2.    Also V2 does not excel at macrodynamics without those tubes.  It is a fairly soft sounding amp.


Any specific brand of 6CG7 tube?  I've asked a friend if I can borrow her Valhalla2 (never used these days since she has a EC ZDS2) to try these tubes and since she also has a HD800 she may decide to keep the V2 since she also has a HD700 and a ZMF Auteur.  She had offered me the V2 for free since it was quite bad to her even with some pricy tubes.


----------



## ColtMrFire (Dec 7, 2018)

DavidA said:


> Any specific brand of 6CG7 tube?  I've asked a friend if I can borrow her Valhalla2 (never used these days since she has a EC ZDS2) to try these tubes and since she also has a HD800 she may decide to keep the V2 since she also has a HD700 and a ZMF Auteur.  She had offered me the V2 for free since it was quite bad to her even with some pricy tubes.



From what I remember the RCA cleartops were very good.  I got a pair of "butt ugly" from the Brent Jeese fairly cheap.  There were some that were a little harsher than others but the RCAs weren't.  It's been a long time though so my memory is a little fuzzy on specifics.

Also the tubes go in the front.  They are about as tall as the back power tubes so don't want anyone getting confused.


----------



## ColtMrFire (Dec 7, 2018)

I would manage my expectations though.  They don't drastically change the amp, but they had a bigger effect than the Schiit recommended tubes.  You still may not even like it.  But one guy I know called it his end game amp after hearing them.  Some people like me still sold it for better gear.  You never know.  It makes the V2 a better amp IMO.  And some people will not be able to handle the HD800 treble peak no matter what.  This is not guaranteed to cure people of that.


----------



## DavidA

ColtMrFire said:


> The normal tube family Schiit recommends (6DJ8, 6922 , etc etc) are not going to change the sound much.  The C6G7 tubes are a whole different story.  Not recommended by Schiit, but noticeably change the characteristics of the amp.  Specifically fixing (to a degree) what it is lacking: macrodynamics, clarity.  And fixes what it is doing too much of: dry/sandy treble.  Not a huge change but much more than the standard recommended tube swaps.  People have really not heard what the V2 is capable of until using the 6CG7 tubes.  The only downside is certain brands make the soundstage slightly claustrophobic.  For $350 and those tubes, it is one of the best amps for the 800 under $500.  I haven't heard Lyr 3.





ColtMrFire said:


> I would manage my expectations though.  They don't drastically change the amp, but they had a bigger effect than the Schiit recommended tubes.  You still may not even like it.  But one guy I know called it his end game amp after hearing them.  Some people like me still sold it for better gear.  You never know.  It makes the V2 a better amp IMO.  And some people will not be able to handle the HD800 treble peak no matter what.  This is not guaranteed to cure people of that.



I'm a bit confused here since I asked about the 6CG7 tubes due to your previous post (underlined part) but now you are back tracking and saying that they might only make a slight difference and say that they don't drastically change the V2 and I still may not like it?

I have a pair of RCA clear tops (not 6CG7 but 12AU7, great tube for my Ember and BH Crack) and doing some research the RCA clear top variant is a 6FQ7.  I've also been informed by a friend that I actually might have tried some 6CG7 tubes when I had his Liquid Glass for a few months last year.


----------



## ColtMrFire

It's not backtracking, it's taking into account the subjective nature of the hobby.  For every "drastic change" there are people who call it "barely audible".  There are people who believe all DACs and cables sound the same.  In this environment it's important to keep them level headed about what to expect because not everyone hears the same.

My opinion on the matter hasn't changed one iota.  I'm just warning you not to take what I say deadly seriously so that you are disappointed they don't sound exactly how I described.  The hobby is subjective.  YMMV is a term created for a reason.


----------



## omniweltall

The way I see it....Vali 2, Valhalla 2, and Lyr 3 used to be DA deal in town for budget tube amps. They still are. But others are catching up. MCTH, ZD Jr., Liquid Platinum to name a few. This is good for us.


----------



## thinker

Sennheiser HD-800 S/N 50000 numbers are marked in gold ,proud owner here, very nice gesture from Sennheiser


----------



## thinker

thinker said:


> Sennheiser HD-800 S/N 50000 numbers are marked in gold ,proud owner here, very nice gesture from Sennheiser


Like to reply my own post.I have owned 8 pairs of these over the years and this unique pair has a very smooth frequency curve and it gives great presentation,this pair is likely a carefully selected pair.Clearly the best of all wich i have had.
My friend Zolkis liked these very much when he auditioned them.


----------



## omniweltall

What a BS hype. This hd800 is the same the others.


----------



## thinker

omniweltall said:


> What a BS hype. This hd800 is the same the others.


have you heard them or is it just a thought from you


----------



## TYATYA

thinker said:


> Sennheiser HD-800 S/N 50000 numbers are marked in gold ,proud owner here, very nice gesture from Sennheiser



Is that 800S or none S version ? It may be none S.
If so, may be it has tuned to sound as sound of 800s , but not completely same.


----------



## Deftone

thinker said:


> Like to reply my own post.I have owned 8 pairs of these over the years and this unique pair has a very smooth frequency curve and it gives great presentation,this pair is likely a carefully selected pair.Clearly the best of all wich i have had.
> My friend Zolkis liked these very much when he auditioned them.



Are you saying only this HD800 has been tuned differently because it’s serial number 50000?


----------



## Deftone (Dec 7, 2018)

I just noticed Valhalla 2 has been marked down to just Valhalla now, I guess they aren’t planning on making a successor under that name.

I think Vali 1 was far better sounding, hybrid amp with little Raytheon radio tubes. I wonder If Vali 2 actually provided an upgrade.


----------



## omniweltall

thinker said:


> have you heard them or is it just a thought from you


Is it the gold? I heard gold imparts certain sonic characters.


----------



## treebug (Dec 8, 2018)

thinker said:


> Sennheiser HD-800 S/N 50000 numbers are marked in gold ,proud owner here, very nice gesture from Sennheiser





thinker said:


> Like to reply my own post.I have owned 8 pairs of these over the years and this unique pair has a very smooth frequency curve and it gives great presentation,this pair is likely a carefully selected pair.Clearly the best of all wich i have had.
> My friend Zolkis liked these very much when he auditioned them.



It was discontinued in June this year so there wouldn't be further development, just existing stock.


----------



## zakazak

Since it is discounted I wonder if I should wait for a deal or better hurry up buying the HD800.

Also I would love to have a nice serial number


----------



## treebug

I got mine new at a reduced price here in the UK. Doesn't have a golden serial number though.


----------



## zakazak

treebug said:


> I got mine new at a reduced price here in the UK. Doesn't have a golden serial number though.



Care to share a link via PM?


----------



## DavidA (Dec 8, 2018)

ColtMrFire said:


> It's not backtracking, it's taking into account the subjective nature of the hobby.  For every "drastic change" there are people who call it "barely audible".  There are people who believe all DACs and cables sound the same.  In this environment it's important to keep them level headed about what to expect because not everyone hears the same.
> 
> My opinion on the matter hasn't changed one iota.  I'm just warning you not to take what I say deadly seriously so that you are disappointed they don't sound exactly how I described.  The hobby is subjective.  YMMV is a term created for a reason.


If you are warning me not to take you deadly serious then why do you keep insisting that the V2 with 6CG7 tubes are so good even when almost everyone says the V2 wasn't very good.  FWIW I don't think all DACs sound the same, haven't heard a difference with various cables for headphones only, my scale of a drastic change is something that anyone who can still hear will notice and to me there is a fairly easy to notice difference between my BH Crack, Lyr2 and Ember and my HD800, T1gen1, HD700, DT-990 premium (slightly modded) and HD650, differences that are not good or bad, just different IMO where the V2 was just a bad pairing most of the time even with tube changes, not just to me but even to the owners of the V2, which is the reason I've taken an interest in your insistence that its the 6CG7 tubes make all the difference since its one that no one I know as tried.


----------



## ColtMrFire

DavidA said:


> If you are warning me not to take you deadly serious then why do you keep insisting that the V2 with 6CG7 tubes are so good



Is this really that difficult to understand?  If it is, I can't help you any further.


----------



## AutumnCrown

thinker said:


> Sennheiser HD-800 S/N 50000 numbers are marked in gold ,proud owner here, very nice gesture from Sennheiser



Congratulations on landing 50000! That's quite remarkable. Was that intentional? 

Also, can you upload the FR graph? It seems there is substantial variability in treble response for the HD800 from unit to unit. I'm guessing this unit has less of a 6 khz peak than some others.


----------



## zakazak

HD800 offers seem to decrease but the price won't.

Curious if there is any better alternative for the same price. But as I understand even after all those years the HD800 counts as the top for its price?


----------



## connieflyer

zakazak, I know what you mean, they are not plentiful on the used market, I am looking to buy another one as a backup to mine.  The new ones have gone up in price a bit, and the 800s has come down a little. When driven with the right amp, they are really great.  The last tube roll I did brought the 800 up to a new level for me. Very satisfied with them now, the bass is even heavier.


----------



## zolkis

zakazak said:


> Curious if there is any better alternative for the same price. But as I understand even after all those years the HD800 counts as the top for its price?



IMHO it's one of the top ones and you can even extend the price up.
Some others to check out (which I prefer over the HD800, except for the sound stage, mainly since the HD800 sounds a bit dry and a little metallic to my ears):
modded Denon D7200 - more linear, more extended bass with higher impact, richer tonality, no treble issues, high resolution, but less high and slightly less wide sound stage
stock D7200 depends on the unit, I heard ones with midrange peak, others sounding fine
stock Denon D9200 - very linear and extended, but has a small treble peak, not disturbing, otherwise similar to the modded D7200.
Various Stax alternatives:
- SR Lambda 
- Lambda Signature
- L700
- used SR-007 (Mk1, and latest)
- Phenomenon Canorum, Libratum (currently these are the best headphones IMHO, including the Orpheus 2, but still in prototype stage).

One can also check MrSpeakers and ZMF offerings which I don't know well, and Audeze which I tend to try and still prefer the HD800.

BTW Thinker's HD800 with his Abbas Audio DAC and amp was one of the best headphone systems I've heard, very nearly on par with a Stax SR-009 + BHSE system. His Lambda Sig is perhaps even better, and his Phenomenon Canorum is yet even better, actually another class. My dearest is the Phenomenon Libratum (about the same level as Canorum but I prefer round), followed by the later Stax SR-009's and 007's driven by tubes, followed by thinker's HD800. My modded D7200 and the D9200 are not far behind or more or less on similar level, with different strengths. If it has to be one headphone for all, in my case it has to be a closed one, leaving the D9200 (and modded D7200) being the only/best choice at the moment, at the HD800 price range. YMMV.


----------



## zakazak

Ansone knows how the Feliks Elise pairs with the HD800?

I have read that the Euforia isn't really a good match with the HD800 for its price and so I wonder about the Elise?

Will order my HD800 by the end of this year and still need a decent DAC+Amp with esthetics and quality


----------



## connieflyer

I had an Elise, before I bought the Euforia, used both with the Sennheiser 800, and I can tell you that the upgrade was worth it to me. I love the sound, much better with the Eurforia than the Elise. With these latest tubes, the El 38 Mullard's exceptional FR, sound stage, and like I said the bass is much better than previous tubes. We have one member that has an Elise and just bought the El 38's and he confirms that it was a great upgrade for him. Find the amp you like , if tube, then make sure it can be rolled, just because a designer settles on a tube, does not  mean it is the best the amp can do.


----------



## FiGuY1017

New Dac I can give huge recommendations for with the 800 is the M2tech Young Mk3 amazing stuff!


----------



## Deftone (Dec 31, 2018)

So its HD800's 10 year anniversary (this month?) Anyone think they will do anything special or announce new flagship at CES?

... I think its about time


----------



## nephilim32

Deftone said:


> So its HD800's 10 year anniversary (this month?) Anyone think they will do anything special or announce new flagship at CES?
> 
> ... I think its about time



I hope so. 

Happy New Year .


----------



## omniweltall

Happy new year!


----------



## JamieMcC

DavidA said:


> For the HD800 I think tubes are the way to go, more specifically an OTL amp since most OTL amp have slightly higher output impedance it better matches the HD800 but there are a few SS and hybrid amps that I've heard that really pair well with the HD800.  Its more a matter of personal preference at this level but I can understand why some will stay away from tubes, it can be quite a rabbit hole but it also can be really fun and rewarding.  I like my BH Crack paired with my HD800, T1gen1, HD700, etc and while I've heard my HD800 on better (higher priced) amps (Liquid Glass, DarkStar, EC Balancing Act, EC ZDS2, MicroZOTL, Elise and a few others I'm really happy with the BH Crack since its fairly cheap and sounds great to me.  Yes the other higher end amps might sound better to others but to me its just a different flavor, not better IMO.





zakazak said:


> Thanks guys... so:
> 
> Burson Soloist SL Mk2 (Non-Tube) - 350€
> Not many reviews, not many comparisons, some say yes, some say no.
> ...



Just catching up here my notifications have not been updating

Noticed a few post of a similar vein to the ones I have quoted above.

So from a view point of someone who has built a number of Cracks both stock and modified and currently has a Bottlehead Mainline if you looking for a superb amp on a tight budget for using with the hd800 be sure to take a serious look at the Pass diy Whammy headphone amp its a pretty easy build and designed by Wayne Colburn (Nelson Pass's co designer and right hand man for 20 odd years) and its really rather good. 

The kit (minus enclosure but designed to fit an inexpensive Hammond one) is $169 in the diy audio store or you can purchase just the pcb for $29. 

More info in the links

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/pass-diy-headphone-amp-whammy.877569/

https://diyaudiostore.com/collections/printed-circuit-boards/products/whammy?variant=12917913813026

There is also a quickly growing thread in the Pass Labs section of Nelsons Diyaudio site,

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/317803-whammy-pass-diy-headphone-amp-guide.html


----------



## Wesbound

Hello folks, can't decide between 800/800S. My actual rig is : win 10 - jriver- schiit modi 2 uber- schiit magni 2 uber - beyerdynamic dt1990. Now, i would like to upgrade the headphone. I'm happy with dt1990 but want more large soundstage. I listen most often funk (70's) , fusion, electric jazz (also acoustic) rock/pop. I'm not a basshead by any means, just want the bass the way the engeneer meant it. So, analitical but not boring. I've read thousands of thread pages but can't still can't decide between the two. One thing i understood,most of  those who tryed both keeps the 800 (non S). more than someones says that the original 800 has got some kind of "magic". Thanks for your advices. Oh, i forgot to mention i listen also ectronic music and look here what headphone mister Nigel Stanford uses


----------



## Slashn77

Wesbound said:


> Hello folks, can't decide between 800/800S. My actual rig is : win 10 - jriver- schiit modi 2 uber- schiit magni 2 uber - beyerdynamic dt1990. Now, i would like to upgrade the headphone. I'm happy with dt1990 but want more large soundstage. I listen most often funk (70's) , fusion, electric jazz (also acoustic) rock/pop. I'm not a basshead by any means, just want the bass the way the engeneer meant it. So, analitical but not boring. I've read thousands of thread pages but can't still can't decide between the two. One thing i understood,most of  those who tryed both keeps the 800 (non S). more than someones says that the original 800 has got some kind of "magic". Thanks for your advices. Oh, i forgot to mention i listen also ectronic music and look here what headphone mister Nigel Stanford uses



I listen to similar music and I think you should look at the lcd2 classics or even better the lcd X


----------



## Wesbound

Hi Slashn, thanks. But what about the soundstage with audeze? i guess it's not as wide as the 800...


----------



## Slashn77 (Jan 3, 2019)

Wesbound said:


> Hi Slashn, thanks. But what about the soundstage with audeze? i guess it's not as wide as the 800...


I don’t know of any headphone with soundstage as wide as the 800s but that is only good on some tracks to my ears. The lcd 2 classics and X both have nice soundstage and imaging as well with more impact in lower bass and guitar plucks.

I am not treble sensitive but with the audeze sound it is very comfortable and less fatiguing when listening for over an hour straight even though the audeze hp’s Are much heavier while the sennheiser are pretty light and comfortable

Both are great options but it really comes down to personal preference. If you are treble sensitive at all then stay away from the 800’s. But if you want the tingling highs all the time then 800s are some of the best


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Maybe you want th900. I never thought hd800 was a good fit for non classical music.


----------



## connieflyer

Remembering back to the early reviews of the 800, they almost always said that amplifier made a big difference in whether they liked or disliked the 800.  I have used mine with 3 different amps, the first was the Garage 1217 Ember, nice but nothing to write home about.  Next was the Feliks Elise and rolling lots of tubes found several combinations that were quite good.  Finally the Feliks Euforia, better sounding all around.  Now with the use of the Mullard EL38's in pentode strapped triode mode, the 800 has never sounded better. Base line is much improved , whole audio spectrum is about as good as I have ever heard.


----------



## FiGuY1017

If you have the right set up I’d go OG 800 imo. Mine, in my set up is the most beautiful sounding headphone I’ve ever heard.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Wesbound said:


> Hello folks, can't decide between 800/800S. My actual rig is : win 10 - jriver- schiit modi 2 uber- schiit magni 2 uber - beyerdynamic dt1990. Now, i would like to upgrade the headphone. I'm happy with dt1990 but want more large soundstage. I listen most often funk (70's) , fusion, electric jazz (also acoustic) rock/pop. I'm not a basshead by any means, just want the bass the way the engeneer meant it.



With that rig, might as well go for the HD800S for a slightly less analytical sound.

I can tell you for 100% certain that the HD800 will blow you away when you hear funk, electric & rock/pop & even if you are a basshead, well beyond the Audeze LCD-2 & Beyerdynamtic DT1990 can do, *BUT* expect to pay through the nose for a high-end tube amp & high-end DAC, as well as the accompanying cables & source.


----------



## Wesbound

Thenewguy007 said:


> With that rig, might as well go for the HD800S for a slightly less analytical sound.
> 
> I can tell you for 100% certain that the HD800 will blow you away when you hear funk, electric & rock/pop & even if you are a basshead, well beyond the Audeze LCD-2 & Beyerdynamtic DT1990 can do, *BUT* expect to pay through the nose for a high-end tube amp & high-end DAC, as well as the accompanying cables & source.




Big difference  soundstage wise between 800/800s?


----------



## Svatopluk

Wesbound said:


> Big difference  soundstage wise between 800/800s?


Not really, maybe the 800's additional treble gives the illusion of slightly more sound-stage but it's not a big difference.


----------



## FLTWS

I noticed no difference when I auditioned both in home for over a week in 2017.


----------



## tamleo

Hello,
Is it crazy comparing the Se846 to the Hd800? I have now $1000 and want to have a new hi-end headphones. I cannot bear the weight from my LCD-2 anymore (though I love their sound).
I had many sub-$500 iem such as the Sony Ex1000, the Fischer DBA-02,, but nothing sounded like the LCD-2 in term of quality.
Thank you so much!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I've collected my thoughts on K1000, especially with reference to HD800, in a review that you can find linked from my signature.


----------



## RCBinTN

The SE846 are tremendous IEMs, easy to drive, very nice sound detail, but won't give the sound stage of the HD800.
But, the SE846 have isolating ability that the HD800 clearly don't have.

Neither the LCD-2 nor LCD-X will approach the HD800 stage, although the LCD-X are quite addicting (I owned two pair).
The LCD-4 are better, they come close to the HD800 instrument detail, but still not as wide a stage as HD800.

I've heard the HD800S and, recently, the HD820. Didn't care for either nearly as much as the HD800.
To me, the HD800S sound like the HD800 with a sock stuffed inside. And, the HD820 are just too boomy.

The best advice I can give, to this difficult question, is: try to listen to several HPs with your own music and equipment.

I have searched for years for the right DAC/amp combination, to adequately drive the HD800.
A difficult journey. Finally settled on the Gungnir MB + Bryston BHA-1 that work well.
Along the way, I heard the Yggy + Ragnarok and Yggy + WA5, both rigs made the HD800 really sing. But ... the cost is going up!

You should read Bosie's review of the K1000 as compared to the HD800 ... very interesting 

Happy Hunting!
RCB


----------



## Nik74

RCBinTN said:


> To me, the HD800S sound like the HD800 with a sock stuffed inside.



If it wasn’t you, someone has made the exact same comment a while back comparing 800-800S and it has made me wonder if it is time for me to try the 800 and see if I prefer them. I love my 800S but somehow I can imagine where your - exaggerated - comment comes from.


----------



## RCBinTN

Nik74 said:


> If it wasn’t you, someone has made the exact same comment a while back comparing 800-800S and it has made me wonder if it is time for me to try the 800 and see if I prefer them. I love my 800S but somehow I can imagine where your - exaggerated - comment comes from.



Yeah, I didn't actually stuff a sock in the HD800 LOL. The HD800S just are less bright, more "veiled" than the HD800, which I think takes away the best trait of the HD800. 
YMMV of course. A lot of it depends on the type of music you prefer


----------



## FLTWS

RCBinTN said:


> ...
> You should read Bosie's review of the K1000 as compared to the HD800 ... very interesting
> 
> Happy Hunting!
> RCB



Yes it is.


----------



## Ichos

I have owned HD800 stock and sdr modded for two years and eventually migrated to HD800s.
I have spent endless hours (before selling them) comparing them and at the end i don't find the HD800s
veiled or with some kind of sock stuffed into them.
They are a tad more warm sounding without loosing the famous detail at all.
May be a 5% loss in head stage but with better overall tonality.
Just my opinion though.


----------



## whirlwind

There are times I go awhile and not listen to the HD800 headphones.
Have even thought about selling them , then I throw them on for a listen, and I always think, what a wonderful sound and headphone this is.
It sounds wonderful from all of my amps, the music is just presented in a little different way.

If you could only have one headphone and it was the HD800, you are living large


----------



## nephilim32

whirlwind said:


> There are times I go awhile and not listen to the HD800 headphones.
> Have even thought about selling them , then I throw them on for a listen, and I always think, what a wonderful sound and headphone this is.
> It sounds wonderful from all of my amps, the music is just presented in a little different way.
> 
> If you could only have one headphone and it was the HD800, you are living large



That has been my feeling for the last 6 years...only difference between you and I is that I never thought about selling them .

Right now. I haven't been able to listen to my 800's in over a month because I have a Newborn son. I just know once I get some time with them again the "wow" factor will be through the roof .
Absence makes the heart grow fonder. Pretty soon I am gonna grab a pair of LCD XC's for quiet, non disruptive listening .


----------



## floydfan33

Well, I'm back! 3rd time around with the HD800.

My first ones were SN 7999, 2nd were 38XXX, and these are 36XXX. It may be fickle audio memory but my 2nd pair had a nasty 6K spike that pretty much required Sonarworks to be listenable with some music, but these seem much smoother and more balanced.

Anyone know if Sennheiser will send the frequency chart to a 2nd or 3rd owner?


----------



## johnjen

They did for my 2nd set of used 800's.

JJ


----------



## Cann3dh33t

They did for my set, also 2nd owner.


----------



## floydfan33

johnjen said:


> They did for my 2nd set of used 800's.
> 
> JJ





Cann3dh33t said:


> They did for my set, also 2nd owner.



Thanks for confirming! Did you fill out the registration page or just send them an email?


----------



## johnjen

If memory serves (no guaranties) I filled out the form.
JJ


----------



## Cann3dh33t

johnjen said:


> If memory serves (no guaranties) I filled out the form.
> JJ


Same for me.. try the form, give it some time then email.


----------



## leng jai

Anyone know if you can buy replacements for the black metal grill? Can't seem to find the specific part number on the Sennheiser site.


----------



## floydfan33

johnjen said:


> If memory serves (no guaranties) I filled out the form.
> JJ





Cann3dh33t said:


> Same for me.. try the form, give it some time then email.



Filled out the form and chart received!


----------



## Thenewguy007

leng jai said:


> Anyone know if you can buy replacements for the black metal grill? Can't seem to find the specific part number on the Sennheiser site.



Strangely, they seemed to stop selling replacement parts.

They used to have every part available on their websites for HD800 parts, but now nothing. Not even the headband appears there anymore.


----------



## leng jai

Thenewguy007 said:


> Strangely, they seemed to stop selling replacement parts.
> 
> They used to have every part available on their websites for HD800 parts, but now nothing. Not even the headband appears there anymore.



Wow that sucks, the fact that it was completely modular was one of the selling points for it.


----------



## FLTWS

Shouldn't replacement parts be the same as for HD800S?


----------



## Svatopluk (Feb 7, 2019)

FLTWS said:


> Shouldn't replacement parts be the same as for HD800S?


Yes, I think Sennheiser is avoiding a lot of duplicate part numbers by listing the HD800S only.


----------



## leng jai

https://spares.sennheiser.co.uk/pro-audio-headphones/hd800s-ear-cup-l-r-sub-assembly

I guess you can't buy the metal grill on its own? Looks like the entire cups without the driver here. Also is that price for both L and R?


----------



## johnjen

Those metal grill covers (#020 if this is what you are referring to) are p/n 533369 and the last time I checked the price it was ≈ $14 each.




I have 2 sets that I have removed from my 800's, so if you want a set let me know and we can work out the details.
But I'd also suggest as a possibility, if SQ is high on your priority list , to remove them and see if there is any change for the better, or not.


JJ


----------



## leng jai

johnjen said:


> Those metal grill covers (#020 if this is what you are referring to) are p/n 533369 and the last time I checked the price it was ≈ $14 each.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah I saw that picture but I couldn't find a link to actually buy that part by itself. Do you know where exactly on the site you can buy it?

I'm open to SQ improvements, what is the difference with the grills off? First time I've heard of that making a difference to the sound quality.


----------



## johnjen (Feb 8, 2019)

I usually have to call Sennheiser and talk to the repair/parts department to order the parts I need for the 800's.
I've never been able to order them online.

What I noticed after removing the grills was a less veiled acoustic presentation.
Less added resonances that makes for a 'cleaner' experience.

It is (relatively) easy to remove them and then put them back in, to determine if this is an improvement, or not, for you, assuming you have the tools and know what you are doing, etc.
It is one of 3 basic mods I have performed on my 800's.

JJ


----------



## leng jai

johnjen said:


> I usually have to call Sennheiser and talk to the repair/parts department to order the parts I need for the 800's.
> I've never been able to order them online.
> 
> What I noticed after removing the grills was a less veiled acoustic presentation.
> ...



Sound interesting, do you have a guide or tutorial handy for removing them? I suppose I'll have to do it if I want to replace them anyway.


----------



## johnjen

No I don't have a write up, but perhaps there is a you-tube video.
It's really not that hard, assuming you are familiar with performing such delicate tear downs, not to mention putting it all back together, as there are only 6 tiny torx screws.
Just make sure you don't slip with the torx bits and don't force anything.
These 800's are designed very well for being repaired/modified/taken apart and re-assembled, multiple times.

JJ


----------



## leng jai

johnjen said:


> No I don't have a write up, but perhaps there is a you-tube video.
> It's really not that hard, assuming you are familiar with performing such delicate tear downs, not to mention putting it all back together, as there are only 6 tiny torx screws.
> Just make sure you don't slip with the torx bits and don't force anything.
> These 800's are designed very well for being repaired/modified/taken apart and re-assembled, multiple times.
> ...



Might have a look on Youtube. Do you mind posting a picture of what it looks like with the grills off?


----------



## johnjen

Sure, here you go.

Note: I have changed the small mesh screens to felt, in the very center of the driver as well

JJ


----------



## Whitigir

johnjen said:


> Sure, here you go.
> 
> Note: I have changed the small mesh screens to felt, in the very center of the driver as well
> 
> JJ


Changing the center grill with felt would alternate the sound significantly wouldn’t it ? What effects have u observed by far ?  Thank you


----------



## johnjen (Feb 9, 2019)

I didn't notice much, if any, change at all.
I even tried with it being completely open with the same results.

And yeah I thought I had really messed up and might need all new drivers etc.
I mean that is the center of the driver and the 'back wave port' so to speak, so I was in 'unknown territory' so to speak.
Until I listened, and listened some more as I continued to fuss with this 'change'…

The only reason I changed them was because I inadvertently collapsed one of them, so I pulled it all the way out and listened, then pulled the other side and listened again etc.
All the way until I had installed the felt inserts and have left it that way ever since.
They aren't even glued in…

JJ


----------



## eeagle (Feb 10, 2019)

johnjen said:


> I didn't notice much, if any, change at all.
> I even tried with it being completely open with the same results.
> 
> And yeah I thought I had really messed up and might need all new drivers etc.
> ...


Interesting info and experience, thanks.  The felt insert reminds me of the SuperDupont Resonator (SDR) that is so popular among many HD800 owners.

Another interesting thread w/some pictures


----------



## Whitigir (Feb 10, 2019)

That is the part that hd800s has and regular 800 doesnt 

helmholtz resonator

I think Sennheiser did some speacial researches to come out with the materials for it to revise into 800s


----------



## STR-1

Selling my 3m Black Dragon Premium V2 cable terminated for HD 800/S (with hard adapters for use with focal Utopia).  PM me if interested.


----------



## Amberlamps (Feb 11, 2019)

johnjen said:


> Those metal grill covers (#020 if this is what you are referring to) are p/n 533369 and the last time I checked the price it was ≈ $14 each.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I need number 40 or 130, not sure which number it is in the pic above. It’s the cup shaped metal screen that goes all around it, as I dented mine slightly.

My cable split and I had to send it to senn, in the process of fighting the cable to let go of the headphones, it popped out and hit the metal thing and slightly marked it. Does not affect sq as it never dented it, the inside is perfect, it’s just a slight mark on the outside.

Anyone got any idea of how much number 40 or 130 would cost ?

It the shiny silver metal that goes right around the headphones. I’m not sure if it’s 40 or 130 in the picture.


----------



## johnjen

#40 is the earcup that the driver and the rest of the parts attach to. It has the metal screens etc.
The last time I checked this part costs ≈ $71 + S&H

#130 is the internal dust cover that is easily removed.
I don't have a price on that.

JJ


----------



## BingCrosby1903

Hi All,

It's been a while. Does anybody have a recommendation for aftermarket replacement pads that are cheaper than the original? Not looking to change the sound, just better durability at a better price. Not convinced of trying the $14 ebay ones though.

Thanks!


----------



## Thenewguy007

BingCrosby1903 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> It's been a while. Does anybody have a recommendation for aftermarket replacement pads that are cheaper than the original? Not looking to change the sound, just better durability at a better price. Not convinced of trying the $14 ebay ones though.
> 
> Thanks!



Those $14 Chinese knockoffs are actually pretty damn close to the real ones. You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.


----------



## omniweltall

Thenewguy007 said:


> Those $14 Chinese knockoffs are actually pretty damn close to the real ones. You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.


Sorry, I might miss it. Anyone post a link to the $14 Chinese knockoffs?


----------



## BingCrosby1903

Like these: 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Replace...h=item1ee13bb710:g:Vi4AAOSwruxa~uRn:rk:4:pf:0


----------



## sup27606

I have been listening to the HD800 through Audirvana via Schiit Eitr to Modi multibit connected to Jotunheim balanced. I thought this combo made the HD800 sound decent, not extraordinary by any means. OK soundstage and instrument separation, anemic bass, and above all, sibilance (Mimby works much better with my other tube amp, La Fiagro 339). I recently acquired a Chord Mojo and it significantly improved things with Jotunheim in all quarters, except sibilance. This was using the USB input of Mojo. 

Next, I switched to the coax input of Mojo and connected through the Eitr. I have never heard a more dramatic improvement in a headphone from the same audio chain, just by adding one extra component (i.e. the Eitr). The sound became so much out of head with holographic and deep soundstage and amazing instrument separation. The soundstage moved more towards the front of the head becoming centrally situated, while before it was more towards the back. However, the most dramatic improvement was the complete lack of treble harshness and the sibilance was gone, (I am using the SDR mod) even from the 60s/70s albums that were unheardable through the HD800 before. I don't know how this happened, but it was magical. The HD800 now sounds smooth and extremely musical even with old recordings and sounds just effortless. Since the sound is so much out of the head with no treble glare, there is no fatigue and everything sounds really natural. The whole experience is almost to the point of being addictive. The only thing that I think comes a little short is a slightly less treble extension. In some of the classical albums, I think Mimby did slightly better with treble definition and texture, but everything else is really good, including the sense of space in live concert recordings and improved bass quantity. The bass is not light at all, just adequate even for EDM and hip hop (I listened to a few). 

While I have never heard one of the very high end amps that do real justice to the HD800, I think, my current setup at the least gives a flavor of what those high end amps are capable of with the HD800. The sound quality has reached a level where I can easily imagine this to be my end game setup for quite some time. What is your experience if you have tried the same setup?


----------



## Deftone (Mar 6, 2019)

sup27606 said:


> I have been listening to the HD800 through Audirvana via Schiit Eitr to Modi multibit connected to Jotunheim balanced. I thought this combo made the HD800 sound decent, not extraordinary by any means. OK soundstage and instrument separation, anemic bass, and above all, sibilance (Mimby works much better with my other tube amp, La Fiagro 339). I recently acquired a Chord Mojo and it significantly improved things with Jotunheim in all quarters, except sibilance. This was using the USB input of Mojo.
> 
> Next, I switched to the coax input of Mojo and connected through the Eitr. I have never heard a more dramatic improvement in a headphone from the same audio chain, just by adding one extra component (i.e. the Eitr). The sound became so much out of head with holographic and deep soundstage and amazing instrument separation. The soundstage moved more towards the front of the head becoming centrally situated, while before it was more towards the back. However, the most dramatic improvement was the complete lack of treble harshness and the sibilance was gone, (I am using the SDR mod) even from the 60s/70s albums that were unheardable through the HD800 before. I don't know how this happened, but it was magical. The HD800 now sounds smooth and extremely musical even with old recordings and sounds just effortless. Since the sound is so much out of the head with no treble glare, there is no fatigue and everything sounds really natural. The whole experience is almost to the point of being addictive. The only thing that I think comes a little short is a slightly less treble extension. In some of the classical albums, I think Mimby did slightly better with treble definition and texture, but everything else is really good, including the sense of space in live concert recordings and improved bass quantity. The bass is not light at all, just adequate even for EDM and hip hop (I listened to a few).
> 
> While I have never heard one of the very high end amps that do real justice to the HD800, I think, my current setup at the least gives a flavor of what those high end amps are capable of with the HD800. The sound quality has reached a level where I can easily imagine this to be my end game setup for quite some time. What is your experience if you have tried the same setup?



Same thing happened to me when using optical with Mojo and Hugo2, silky smooth sound without compromising the treble clarity and detail. I wouldnt have picked the Jotunheim for HD800 as its known for being a bit bright and edgy, probably why people like it so much on the HD650.

_*If* _you do consider changing the amp it may be worth trying the HD800(S) model first that would likely make more difference, especially the treble.


----------



## sup27606

Deftone said:


> Same thing happened to me when using optical with Mojo and Hugo2, silky smooth sound without compromising the treble clarity and detail. I wouldnt have picked the Jotunheim for HD800 as its known for being a bit bright and edgy, probably why people like it so much on the HD650.
> 
> _*If* _you do consider changing the amp it may be worth trying the HD800(S) model first that would likely make more difference, especially the treble.



I agree, I wouldn’t have selected jotunheim either for HD800. However I had the Jot to begin with, before I got the HD800. I was contemplating whether to get rid of it, since I didn’t like the Jot/Mimby pairing with HD800. Thankfully, with the Mojo and Eitr, it isn’t bad any longer, although I think Hd800 can do much better, with better amps (and DACS).


----------



## RCBinTN

sup27606 said:


> I have been listening to the HD800 through Audirvana via Schiit Eitr to Modi multibit connected to Jotunheim balanced. I thought this combo made the HD800 sound decent, not extraordinary by any means. OK soundstage and instrument separation, anemic bass, and above all, sibilance (Mimby works much better with my other tube amp, La Fiagro 339). I recently acquired a Chord Mojo and it significantly improved things with Jotunheim in all quarters, except sibilance. This was using the USB input of Mojo.
> 
> Next, I switched to the coax input of Mojo and connected through the Eitr. I have never heard a more dramatic improvement in a headphone from the same audio chain, just by adding one extra component (i.e. the Eitr). The sound became so much out of head with holographic and deep soundstage and amazing instrument separation. The soundstage moved more towards the front of the head becoming centrally situated, while before it was more towards the back. However, the most dramatic improvement was the complete lack of treble harshness and the sibilance was gone, (I am using the SDR mod) even from the 60s/70s albums that were unheardable through the HD800 before. I don't know how this happened, but it was magical. The HD800 now sounds smooth and extremely musical even with old recordings and sounds just effortless. Since the sound is so much out of the head with no treble glare, there is no fatigue and everything sounds really natural. The whole experience is almost to the point of being addictive. The only thing that I think comes a little short is a slightly less treble extension. In some of the classical albums, I think Mimby did slightly better with treble definition and texture, but everything else is really good, including the sense of space in live concert recordings and improved bass quantity. The bass is not light at all, just adequate even for EDM and hip hop (I listened to a few).
> 
> While I have never heard one of the very high end amps that do real justice to the HD800, I think, my current setup at the least gives a flavor of what those high end amps are capable of with the HD800. The sound quality has reached a level where I can easily imagine this to be my end game setup for quite some time. What is your experience if you have tried the same setup?



Kinda strange how it is, with the HD800. When you finally get the pairing right, it's like turning on the "great sound" switch.

I went thru several combinations:
1 - BiFrost + Asgard2
2 - Gungnir + Mjolnir1
3 - Gungnir + HDVA600
4 - Gungnir + BHA-1
5 - Gumby + BHA-1
6 - Gumby/A2 Gen5 + BHA-1

Step #5 was what really opened up the sound, for me. The magic of the Schiit MB ... is real.
Step #6 was like lagniappe. A little bit better! Staying right where I am.
YMMV, but I'm getting good mileage these days 

Cheers,
RCB


----------



## OldSkool

RCBinTN said:


> Kinda strange how it is, with the HD800. When you finally get the pairing right, it's like turning on the "great sound" switch.
> 
> I went thru several combinations:
> 1 - BiFrost + Asgard2
> ...



Great explanation...you nailed it.

My progression is at Yggy+WooWA2+HD800 and I have been rewarded every step of the way.


----------



## RCBinTN

OldSkool said:


> Great explanation...you nailed it.
> 
> My progression is at Yggy+WooWA2+HD800 and I have been rewarded every step of the way.



Thanks. The WA2 looks like a great amp. I know nothing about tubes or tube amps, have always been a SS guy.

I got hooked on the HD800 sound a few years ago at a HP meet in Nashville. I was only at Step #1 then.
Dan Clark of Mr. Speakers was here with his new Ether line. He also brought his home rigs: Yggy (A1) + Ragnarok and WA5.
Both rigs sounded sweet, and the WA5 really blew me away. That's when I realized the potential of the HD800


----------



## sup27606 (Mar 8, 2019)

RCBinTN said:


> Kinda strange how it is, with the HD800. When you finally get the pairing right, it's like turning on the "great sound" switch.
> 
> I went thru several combinations:
> 1 - BiFrost + Asgard2
> ...



That’s a great journey you describe. I am also considering Gumby (or Hugo 2) as my next DAC upgrade. As for the amp, I am still deciding, BHA-1, or the Violectric V281. Having HD800 is like walking on a precipice (as it probably should be, with hi-end gear that doesn’t sugarcoat). if you take the right steps, you will be rewarded with a great view, but take the wrong step, ...


----------



## gLer

sup27606 said:


> Having HD800 is like walking on a precipice (as it probably should be, with hi end gear that doesn’t sugarcoat). if you take the right steps, you will rewarded with a great view, but take the wrong step, ...


Great way to describe it! I finally joined the HD800 Club this week. Thankfully the Audio-gd R-28 is an exceptional match - just warm enough and smooth enough to manage the peaks and perk up the low end. Can’t believe it’s taken me this long to get this headphone. Along with the Auteur (which is a perfect complement), I reckon I’m at desktop endgame.


----------



## gLer

Hi guys, can anyone recommend a good yet affordable replica aftermarket pad? I bought one off Amazon that’s decent, but the fit is very tight and the material bunches up on some of the edges like so:


----------



## gLer

gLer said:


> Hi guys, can anyone recommend a good yet affordable replica aftermarket pad? I bought one off Amazon that’s decent, but the fit is very tight and the material bunches up on some of the edges like so:


Hey guys, I answered my own question here. Used the plastic frame of the original pads with the fabric/foam of the replica pads and voila! Perfect replicas.

Here’s another question though. Anyone seen this sort of ‘staining’ on their headband, and have any idea how to clean it/polish it out? It’s not sticky or tacky, looks like a chemical stain on the steel itself.


----------



## RCBinTN

sup27606 said:


> That’s a great journey you describe. I am also considering Gumby (or Hugo 2) as my next DAC upgrade. As for the amp, I am still deciding, BHA-1, or the Violectric V281. Having HD800 is like walking on a precipice (as it probably should be, with hi-end gear that doesn’t sugarcoat). if you take the right steps, you will be rewarded with a great view, but take the wrong step, ...



I don't think you can go wrong with either of those DACs or amps ... good quality equipment.

The GMB/A2/Gen5 and BHA-1 is a nice pairing. The Bryston amp is very robust and not overly bright for its design.
It does have adjustable gain, that I leave in the "high" mode, even with the HD800.

I haven't personally heard the Hugo2 nor the V281, but they get a lot of great comments on Head-Fi.
It would be a good idea to find people who own or have owned that equipment, to get their opinions.

Happy hunting ... watch your step


----------



## geniekid

I've found the ADI-2 DAC to be a good DAC pairing just because of its EQ capability.  The HD800 has so many tonal quirks (bass roll-off, upper midrange dip, 6k spike) that EQ offers significant value here.


----------



## sup27606 (Mar 12, 2019)

RCBinTN said:


> I don't think you can go wrong with either of those DACs or amps ... good quality equipment.
> 
> The GMB/A2/Gen5 and BHA-1 is a nice pairing. The Bryston amp is very robust and not overly bright for its design.
> It does have adjustable gain, that I leave in the "high" mode, even with the HD800.
> ...



Thanks. In the upcoming CanJam SoCal, I plan to audition both Hugo 2 and Gumby. So far, from all the comments I have read, Mojo is better sounding than Mimby, while Gumby is better than Mojo. Comparing the two, I agree that Mojo is noticeably better in imaging and soundstaging than Mimby. I am curious to find out how Hugo 2 compares against Gumby. I also want to audition the V281 vs BHA-1, but don't know whether Violectric will put up an exhibit.



RCBinTN said:


> watch your step



I will, especially with the HD800 ... ha ha.


----------



## comzee

I can't find any *new *HD800 anymore for under $1500, everybody that was selling them for $1100 seem to be sold out.
Is there any resellers still selling them new at that price in stock?

I've had my HD800 for 7 years and thousands of hours of use, it's falling apart pretty badly. Need a new one. (Don't want the HD800S, HD800SDR is )


----------



## P+D-MI

Interesting, I've had my HD800 for almost 10 years and thousands of hours of use and they look brand new(third set of earpads).


----------



## jtinto

P+D-MI said:


> Interesting, I've had my HD800 for almost 10 years and thousands of hours of use and they look brand new(third set of earpads).



Same here. I've replaced the headband and pads with both OE and Dekoni fenestrated. They continue to look and sound as good as new.


----------



## Svatopluk (Mar 13, 2019)

gLer said:


> Hey guys, I answered my own question here. Used the plastic frame of the original pads with the fabric/foam of the replica pads and voila! Perfect replicas.
> 
> Here’s another question though. Anyone seen this sort of ‘staining’ on their headband, and have any idea how to clean it/polish it out? It’s not sticky or tacky, looks like a chemical stain on the steel itself.


If it's staining, Isopropyl Alcohol should remove it. If not, you may have to use a light polishing compouned or you can wait till you're my age, than you will be unable to see it.


----------



## omniweltall

My biggest fear is that my Senns are gonna outlive me.


----------



## hughren

seriously it can. i had a old headphone from dad, with brand Sanyo, we had it more than 30 years and still work well.


----------



## omniweltall

hughren said:


> seriously it can. i had a old headphone from dad, with brand Sanyo, we had it more than 30 years and still work well.


Now that's a quality phone.


----------



## Joong

HD800 performs wonderfully those classical orchestral music in good tonal balance and accuracy throughout spectrum of frequency.
Possibly the best phone for big band classical music among my collection of phones.
Many phones are missing the importance of balanced performance, whereas HD800 reveals all of the music information buried layers and layer deep through the action of balancing.
How many instances I have forgot the fact that ultimately the music is made of harmony and symmetry which are basically the ratio of tones / the ratio of intensities of each tone, and accuracy of temporal symmetry.
HD800 realizes all of those in great accuracy through great tonal balance and temporal accuracy in classical orchestral music.


----------



## Joong

HD800 gives me a sens of reference or datum, where I am anchored down to music only without pursuing onto the endless desire of upgrading phones or false image of perfect phones.
Especially for classical orchestral music that requires very good resolution to resolve down the whole spectrum of instruments producing each tones with different timbres.
For this resolving power, the balanced performance is important and sens of reference eliminates the false or fruitless effort to pursuing false goal of perfection that does not exist.
It was a long journey through flight over raging waves of winter ocean and finally arrived at barren branch of  a tree as a crow, who realized suddenly the importance of his own flying skill that enables him to ignore the raging waves which is not related to his own flight.


----------



## treebug

Anyone here tried the Furutech HD800 cable?


----------



## RCBinTN

treebug said:


> Anyone here tried the Furutech HD800 cable?



Nope, but I'm using Wywires cables, which I highly recommend. Started with their Red series then moved to Platinum. Great cables.
As discussed on their site, you need to consult with Alex before he will make your cable. He custom-builds for each customer. A very nice fellow.

http://www.wywires.com/headphone-cables/

I'm not affiliated with Wywires, just a satisfied customer


----------



## RCBinTN

jtinto said:


> Same here. I've replaced the headband and pads with both OE and Dekoni fenestrated. They continue to look and sound as good as new.



I was thinking about Dekoni pads because I like the design.
But then I saw a report on Head-Fi that they changed the HD800 sound for the worse.
Did you experience any sound-change with the Dekoni fenestrated pads?

I don't remember who reported that, it might have been @johnjen ... was it you, John?


----------



## Nudel

I'm interested too if those pads has some impact on the hd800 sound.


----------



## gLer

Nudel said:


> I'm interested too if those pads has some impact on the hd800 sound.


I'll be reviewing the full range of Dekoni HD800 pads in the next few weeks, and will report back here. Watch this space...


----------



## RCBinTN

gLer said:


> I'll be reviewing the full range of Dekoni HD800 pads in the next few weeks, and will report back here. Watch this space...



Great - thanks. We'll be interested.
If it wasn't John who reported the issue (he always replies ...) then I will figure out who it was, FYI.


----------



## johnjen

RCBinTN said:


> I was thinking about Dekoni pads because I like the design.
> But then I saw a report on Head-Fi that they changed the HD800 sound for the worse.
> Did you experience any sound-change with the Dekoni fenestrated pads?
> 
> I don't remember who reported that, it might have been @johnjen ... was it you, John?


Yeah that was me.
They 'muffled' the sound and soaked up the very bottom end WAY too much for me and my tastes.
But then my 800's aren't 'stock' anymore and I have brought the extreme bottom end up to near flat, all the way down to ≈15hz.

JJ


----------



## omniweltall

johnjen said:


> Yeah that was me.
> They 'muffled' the sound and soaked up the very bottom end WAY too much for me and my tastes.
> But then my 800's aren't 'stock' anymore and I have brought the extreme bottom end up to near flat, all the way down to ≈15hz.
> 
> JJ


What would be a good replacement pad for the HD800 then, mate? Hard to find Senns original pads here. What about the other Dekonis?


----------



## johnjen

I have found that ebay has a 'decent' selection of 800 ear pads.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=HD800+earpads&_sacat=0

I ordered a set from china that look to be a decent copy of the originals.
I haven't tried them yet, but they are ≈ 1/2 the price, so I figured they would be a 'low cost' way to experiment.

As for the Dekoni's, the only pair I have tried are the premium fenestrated set.
https://www.massdrop.com/transactions/receipt/2777524

And as I mentioned previously, it seems to me that they are too thick (that's where the bass takes a hit) and the fenestration (the tiny holes) seem to mess with the soundstage and overall cohesion, coherence, and coupling, all of which are key acoustic attributes I treasure.

And for some setups, the Dekoni's may 'tame' other sonic attributes to deliver a 'better' acoustical experience.
YMMV

JJ


----------



## RCBinTN

johnjen said:


> I have found that ebay has a 'decent' selection of 800 ear pads.
> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=HD800+earpads&_sacat=0
> 
> I ordered a set from china that look to be a decent copy of the originals.
> ...



Thanks JJ for the detailed report. I knew we could count on you to come through


----------



## johnjen

RCBinTN said:


> Thanks JJ for the detailed report. I knew we could count on you to come through


To quote from somebody that said this before, 'It's what I do'!
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha…

JJ


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Nudel said:


> I'm interested too if those pads has some impact on the hd800 sound.


Changing pads will always have an impact on the sound. When your pads grow softer over time, the sound will change too. Not the HD800 but I spent a lot on 3rd party pads for my Grados only to realize I should have stuck with the original ones


----------



## BingCrosby1903

Does anybody have a recommendation for an inexpensive yet solid headphone stand suitable for the HD 800s?


----------



## gLer

Has anyone bought good quality aftermarket headband padding for the HD800? If so could you please provide a link here.


----------



## IkSak (Mar 18, 2019)

Hi all,

I have the chance to get a used HD800 from a audio engineer for US$ 600 (headphones here in Colombia lose a lot of value second hand because of the reduced market). I'm a classic music fan and I'm seriously considering them. Based on your experience, could you please give a list of what to look at in a second hand HD800? Pad wear? Scratches? Serial number?

Thanks in advance to all


----------



## whirlwind

IkSak said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have the chance to get a used HD800 from a audio engineer for US$ 600 (headphones here in Colombia lose a lot of value second hand because of the reduced market). I'm a classic music fan and I'm seriously considering them. Based on your experience, could you please give a list of what to look at in a second hand HD800? Pad wear? Scratches? Serial number?
> 
> Thanks in advance to all




Personally, I would want good pads and headband padding. the scratches are cosmetic, if you can live with them, then no big deal...i also would not worry about the serial number personally, no such thing as a bad sounding HD800.

I put new ear pads and a new headband padding on with the official Sennheiser pads and it cost $120


----------



## gLer

whirlwind said:


> Personally, I would want good pads and headband padding. the scratches are cosmetic, if you can live with them, then no big deal...i also would not worry about the serial number personally, no such thing as a bad sounding HD800.
> 
> I put new ear pads and a new headband padding on with the official Sennheiser pads and it cost $120


I wouldn’t worry too much about the pads; you can buy good quality aftermarket pads for cheap. Headband padding is different - as long as it’s intact and still has foam, it’s fine. Scratches are more of a worry for me personally - it just shows lack of respect and care, depending on how deep or severe they are. I’m about to replace the plastic rings on my used HD800 (the only part that normally scratches and chips). Will cost less than $100 and my local Sennheiser agent is doing the replacement. Then they’ll look as good as new.


----------



## sup27606

IkSak said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have the chance to get a used HD800 from a audio engineer for US$ 600 (headphones here in Colombia lose a lot of value second hand because of the reduced market). I'm a classic music fan and I'm seriously considering them. Based on your experience, could you please give a list of what to look at in a second hand HD800? Pad wear? Scratches? Serial number?
> 
> Thanks in advance to all



Also, may be check the headphone cable for any breakage or intermittent disconnect inside. 

$550 is about $125 less than what I would consider a good deal in the Head-fi classifieds with negligible scratch and original box and everything.


----------



## whirlwind

gLer said:


> I wouldn’t worry too much about the pads; you can buy good quality aftermarket pads for cheap. Headband padding is different - as long as it’s intact and still has foam, it’s fine. Scratches are more of a worry for me personally - it just shows lack of respect and care, depending on how deep or severe they are. I’m about to replace the plastic rings on my used HD800 (the only part that normally scratches and chips). Will cost less than $100 and my local Sennheiser agent is doing the replacement. Then they’ll look as good as new.




Scratches bother some, they do me...but if the price is right...then many people can live with some scratches, especially if the headphone cost a couple of hundred dollars less.
I was just mentioning that official pads and headphone padding, like what come with the headphone new...cost $120.


----------



## IkSak

sup27606 said:


> Also, may be check the headphone cable for any breakage or intermittent disconnect inside.
> 
> $550 is about $125 less than what I would consider a good deal in the Head-fi classifieds with negligible scratch and original box and everything.


What about without box? How much does it affect the value? 



whirlwind said:


> Scratches bother some, they do me...but if the price is right...then many people can live with some scratches, especially if the headphone cost a couple of hundred dollars less.
> I was just mentioning that official pads and headphone padding, like what come with the headphone new...cost $120.



Both are 120 or each one? The problem in Colombia is that we don't have any official representative, therefore getting these can become pretty expensive because of the taxes and int shipping


----------



## whirlwind

IkSak said:


> What about without box? How much does it affect the value?
> 
> 
> 
> Both are 120 or each one? The problem in Colombia is that we don't have any official representative, therefore getting these can become pretty expensive because of the taxes and int shipping




It cost $120 for both the headband padding and the ear pads....this was from e-bay....they were both fairly hard to find, for the Sennheiser official padding....I thought it would be much easier.
I owned this headphone for 4 or 5 years.....good earpads make a difference


----------



## sup27606

IkSak said:


> What about without box? How much does it affect the value?



It might be a little less without box, (may be $25 less, just a very wild guess) but wouldn't be too much of a difference. You can monitor the prices of used HD800 on Head-fi rather easily at this site. https://devbrada.com/classifieds/


----------



## Joong (Mar 19, 2019)

A masterpiece needs nothing additional to get it shine.

It was long and winding road finally to get HD800, which is a masterpiece for classical / orchestral music for sure.


----------



## J Mirra

New 800 user here, I bought it fitted with the SuperDupont mod from Ebay.
I have never had the chance to hear one before but wanted a set for ten years, the price was right and time to give them a go.

With the right recordings they are dynamic, great bass, smooth treble, deep and wide sound stage.
Feed them with a bad recording and they show you that just like the Beyerdynamic T1.1.
They are very similar sound wise with the HD800 having a slightly bigger stage, the HD800 clearer at the extremities of the stage.

So pleased to have both now, the Audio-GD R2R11 sounds so so good with both.


----------



## Nudel

gLer said:


> I'll be reviewing the full range of Dekoni HD800 pads in the next few weeks, and will report back here. Watch this space...



Excellent. Thanks.


----------



## J Mirra

I am finding position on the ears plays a major part, I was hearing a shrill ringing on S in songs and speech this morning.

Rearranging the cups they started to sound amazing again.

I had heard in reviews that the cups position does make much difference, hum.

They were positioned forward around my ears more, centering them gives a balanced sound, pushing them back gives a warm with less highs presentation.


----------



## yates7592

I think this must be some kind of record to be honest! I have just bought my 4th pair of HD800, having sold the previous 3 pairs over a period of about 8 years. Can anyone here beat that for stupidity?


----------



## whirlwind

yates7592 said:


> I think this must be some kind of record to be honest! I have just bought my 4th pair of HD800, having sold the previous 3 pairs over a period of about 8 years. Can anyone here beat that for stupidity?



Ha...i just sold mine and I wonder if I will ever buy them again...who knows.

You may have the record...I did own the Senn HD650 on three different occasions


----------



## gLer

yates7592 said:


> I think this must be some kind of record to be honest! I have just bought my 4th pair of HD800, having sold the previous 3 pairs over a period of about 8 years. Can anyone here beat that for stupidity?


Haha, nice. I just bought my first one, used but great condition. Even having the plastic rings replaced so it looks brand new (those paint chips - not good). Can tell you this for sure - I’ll never sell these for as long as I live. If I do I may as well give up using headphones.


----------



## yates7592

gLer said:


> Haha, nice. I just bought my first one, used but great condition. Even having the plastic rings replaced so it looks brand new (those paint chips - not good). Can tell you this for sure - I’ll never sell these for as long as I live. If I do I may as well give up using headphones.



Interesting, you also have Auteur just like me. Do you plan on keeping both? I will (ha ha). Auteur is what I will use for 90% of my listening, smooth and relaxing. When I want to have a soundstage fix, that is when HD800 will cone out to play.


----------



## gLer

yates7592 said:


> Interesting, you also have Auteur just like me. Do you plan on keeping both? I will (ha ha). Auteur is what I will use for 90% of my listening, smooth and relaxing. When I want to have a soundstage fix, that is when HD800 will cone out to play.


Yes I’m definitely keeping both. The Auteur is my baby. I bought the HD800 as a complete contrast/complement and it’s perfect as that. Although I’m finding myself listening to the HD800 alsmost exclsuively for now. 10 years late to the party, I have lots to catch up on. I haven’t heard a sound so clear and so sweet and so spacious as this. It really is the best at what it does.


----------



## J Mirra

I have just joined the party too, and it is one I will not be leaving, they are incredible.

I thought they would be genre picky but no they sound fantastic with all genre's I throw at them.

I tried gaming with them hooked up to the Astro MixAmp pro 2013 and thought they would sound flat and lifeless because of not enough power. I was wrong dam these are my music and gaming set now.

I can hear enemy's behind walls with pin point accuracy, turning of folk 20 meters behind me etc. The Takstar Pro 82's were awesome but there is a new king in town for me.


----------



## Focux

So if HD800/800S is king of orchestral/instrumental, what’s king of pop/rock?


----------



## omniweltall

Focux said:


> So if HD800/800S is king of orchestral/instrumental, what’s king of pop/rock?


It is essier to crown the hd800 as king of orchestra. A lot harder to choose which is the king of pop/rock. TH900, Audeze, ZMF all bring something different to the table.


----------



## Focux

omniweltall said:


> It is essier to crown the hd800 as king of orchestra. A lot harder to choose which is the king of pop/rock. TH900, Audeze, ZMF all bring something different to the table.



I can def see why it’s not king of pop the moment I tried pop/rock on HD800S :x


----------



## OldSkool

omniweltall said:


> It is essier to crown the hd800 as king of orchestra. A lot harder to choose which is the king of pop/rock. TH900, Audeze, ZMF all bring something different to the table.



I think it's no coincidence that many HD800 owners also have Audeze LCD2


----------



## omniweltall (Mar 25, 2019)

Focux said:


> I can def see why it’s not king for pop the moment I tried pop/rock on HD800S :x


Actually the hd800 is one of the strong candidates as well. It is an overkill of mainstream pop. But need to fix its tonality without sacrificing too much of its technicalities. Gotta let that first-class bass out.


----------



## Focux

omniweltall said:


> Actually the hd800 is one of the strong candidates as well. It is an overkill of mainstream pop. But need to fix its tonality without sacrificing too much of its technicalities. Gotta let that first-class bass out.




Hmm, perhaps I was not used to how things sounded when I demoed HD800S w pop

Will try again if I ever have the chance or if just end up buying them lol

It’s nice to know such a model can become a “legacy product” and be around for so long


----------



## sup27606

Since all parts of the frequency spectrum including bass and sub-bass have great definition in HD800 (the bass is present, only underwhelmed), it works wonder by EQing, or tube rolling to emphasize the bass. There are other headphones which are naturally better suited towards hip hop or rock, like Audeze LCD3, but none of them have the imaging abilities of HD800, which is something that cannot be imparted by change of gear. That’s why I think, hd800 is a great investment to build up that dream audio rig centered around it, which will give enjoyment for many years.


----------



## omniweltall (Mar 25, 2019)

Focux said:


> Hmm, perhaps I was not used to how things sounded when I demoed HD800S w pop
> 
> Will try again if I ever have the chance or if just end up buying them lol
> 
> It’s nice to know such a model can become a “legacy product” and be around for so long


Thing is....you dont actually need resolution and soundstage size for mainstream music. Especially for easy listening. Hence an overkill.

For pure vocal tracks, I usually use the HD600. It can really bring out the soul of the vocal. Also recommend ZMF cans for their sweet vocal.

For rock, I use the LCD 2C. If you properly amp the HD6xx series, it is also actually good. Just that the LCD 2C (EQ-ed) has that large sound and bass impact.


----------



## Focux

omniweltall said:


> Thing is....you dont actually need resolution and soundstage size for mainstream music. Especially for easy listening. Hence an overkill.
> 
> For pure vocal tracks, I usually use the HD600. It can really bring out the soul of the vocal. Also recommend ZMF cans for their sweet vocal.
> 
> For rock, I use the LCD 2C. If you properly amp the HD6xx series, it is also actually good. Just that the LCD 2C (EQ-ed) has that large sound and bass impact.



makes sense, i concur

using 650's for now, no idea abt how ZMF sounds but dang Zach's new Aeolus in bubinga wood is quite something..

funnily enough after contacting him regarding shipping, 

the cost of a normal aeolus, hd800s and lcd x are the same haha what a problem to have lol


----------



## gLer

omniweltall said:


> Thing is....you dont actually need resolution and soundstage size for mainstream music. Especially for easy listening. Hence an overkill.
> 
> For pure vocal tracks, I usually use the HD600. It can really bring out the soul of the vocal. Also recommend ZMF cans for their sweet vocal.
> 
> For rock, I use the LCD 2C. If you properly amp the HD6xx series, it is also actually good. Just that the LCD 2C (EQ-ed) has that large sound and bass impact.


I agree, the HD800 is definitely not the only horse in town, although it is probably the most refined. I do prefer the Auteur for many tracks, but that’s not to say those tracks don’t sound great on the HD800. But when you play the right track or album on the right system (and the HD800, unlike the Auteur, is VERY system dependent), then the HD800 is almost unbeatable for any money. If you’re a Dido fan, have a listen to ‘Live at Brixton Academy’ on an HD800-optimized system and your mind will literally be blown.


----------



## Focux

gLer said:


> I agree, the HD800 is definitely not the only horse in town, although it is probably the most refined. I do prefer the Auteur for many tracks, but that’s not to say those tracks don’t sound great on the HD800. But when you play the right track or album on the right system (and the HD800, unlike the Auteur, is VERY system dependent), then the HD800 is almost unbeatable for any money. *If you’re a Dido fan, have a listen to ‘Live at Brixton Academy’ *on an HD800-optimized system and your mind will literally be blown.



i heard this and loved it!

albeit not on a HD800..


----------



## omniweltall

gLer said:


> I agree, the HD800 is definitely not the only horse in town, although it is probably the most refined. I do prefer the Auteur for many tracks, but that’s not to say those tracks don’t sound great on the HD800. But when you play the right track or album on the right system (and the HD800, unlike the Auteur, is VERY system dependent), then the HD800 is almost unbeatable for any money. If you’re a Dido fan, have a listen to ‘Live at Brixton Academy’ on an HD800-optimized system and your mind will literally be blown.


Agreed, HD800 is probably the top dog for live recordings at a large venue like that. Especially if it is accompanied with many instruments. 

But for a girl who sings with a guitar, it is an overkill haha.


----------



## gLer

omniweltall said:


> Agreed, HD800 is probably the top dog for live recordings at a large venue like that. Especially if it is accompanied with many instruments.
> 
> But for a girl who sings with a guitar, it is an overkill haha.


Not sure if I agree. I mainly listen to girl/guitar and the HD800 is so real it’s as if I’m sitting in the room while she’s playing. More real even than the Auteur, which is by far the most realistic and totally accurate headphone I’ve heard, mainly because of the HD800’s sense of space, and the detail that pics up every nuance of the voice. Of course this depends on the quality of recording - a badly recorded girl/guitar track can be painful on the HD800, especially if it’s inherently sibilant like so many poor recordings can be. That’s where the Auteur is more forgiving and preferable.


----------



## J Mirra

I listen to rock, heavy metal, thrash, trance, house, nu-disco, chill, folk, singer song writer, pop and if it is well made then the HD800 shines for all these and more for me with the R2R11.

it is definitely not a one trick pony like I thought it may have been from what I had read.


----------



## gLer

J Mirra said:


> I listen to rock, heavy metal, thrash, trance, house, nu-disco, chill, folk, singer song writer, pop and if it is well made then the HD800 shines for all these and more for me with the R2R11.
> 
> it is definitely not a one trick pony like I thought it may have been from what I had read.


So true. I got it thinking it’ll seal the deal for jazz and classical (neither of which I listen to too much of), and happily discovered it was perfect for almost anything with detail, instruments and decent production values.


----------



## omniweltall (Mar 25, 2019)

gLer said:


> Not sure if I agree. I mainly listen to girl/guitar and the HD800 is so real it’s as if I’m sitting in the room while she’s playing. More real even than the Auteur, which is by far the most realistic and totally accurate headphone I’ve heard, mainly because of the HD800’s sense of space, and the detail that pics up every nuance of the voice. Of course this depends on the quality of recording - a badly recorded girl/guitar track can be painful on the HD800, especially if it’s inherently sibilant like so many poor recordings can be. That’s where the Auteur is more forgiving and preferable.


Agreed.

For me, for (1) more simple arrangements, (2) easy listening sessions, and (3) badly recorded tracks, technicality is not really a must. Then the HD600 takes over. Once HD800 is "fixed", they both have very similar tonality anyway. HD800 is truly like a super HD600. HD600 is like 85% of HD800's technicality, but "fixed" HD800 is like 95% of HD600's tonality.

I think Sennheiser really got tonality spot on with their earlier headphones. And they got technicalities spot on with the HD800. And this is coming from someone who has tried a lot of TOTL cans out there.


----------



## Ichos

That's were the 800s comes in.
HD600 tonality + HD800 technicality = HD800s !!!


----------



## omniweltall (Mar 25, 2019)

Ichos said:


> That's were the 800s comes in.
> HD600 tonality + HD800 technicality = HD800s !!!


Sorry....but no haha.

A "fixed" 800 has better tonality than 800s. The 800s is very close to stock 800. Lean tonality and very little bass quantity. And I still prefer the 800 slightly.


----------



## Ichos (Mar 25, 2019)

Fixed with physical mods or EQ?
I don't use EQ because I am spinning cd's.
Used to have HD800 sdr but I preferred the HD800s so I sold it.


----------



## jay567

omniweltall said:


> Sorry....but no haha.
> 
> A "fixed" 800 has better tonality than 800s. The 800s is very close to stock 800. Lean tonality and very little bass quantity. And I still prefer the 800 slightly.



I think it is blatantly obvious HD800 is techincally superior especially with mods/EQ.


----------



## jay567

OldSkool said:


> I think it's no coincidence that many HD800 owners also have Audeze LCD2



Modded HE400 is better IMO.


----------



## Joong

Modded He-400 is Better than LCD2?


----------



## omniweltall

Ichos said:


> Fixed with physical mods or EQ?
> I don't use EQ because I am spinning cd's.
> Used to have HD800 sdr but I preferred the HD800s so I sold it.


I personally use SDR mod, Dekoni pads, EQ, and tube amp.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

omniweltall said:


> I personally use SDR mod, Dekoni pads, EQ, and tube amp.


For me just tube amp is enough. Never heard anything so rich and full yet also with a huge soundstage and so many details


----------



## gLer

omniweltall said:


> I personally use SDR mod, Dekoni pads, EQ, and tube amp.


R2R solid state for me. Detail without the harshness. Will try the SDR mod but Sennheiser designed the HD800 the way they did for a reason, and I mostly like it as-is (with SonarWorks from time to time).


----------



## omniweltall (Mar 26, 2019)

WilliamLeonhart said:


> For me just tube amp is enough. Never heard anything so rich and full yet also with a huge soundstage and so many details


Then you will not hear THAT bass. Try eq-ing the bass up. It is fantastic. It is one of the best bass Ive personally have ever heard.

Which tube amp are u using? In general, try to avoid OTL. It fixes the tonality, but I feel soundstage and detail takes a hit. But of coz depends on the amp as well.


----------



## gLer

omniweltall said:


> Then you will not hear THAT bass. Try eq-ing the bass up. It is fantastic. It is one of the best bass Ive personally have ever heard.
> 
> Which tube amp are u using? In general, try to avoid OTL. It fixes the tonality, but I feel soundstage and detail takes a hit. But of coz depends on the amp as well.


SonarWorks does wonders for the bass and kills the treble peak. +1 bass +3 tilt 50% wet. Those are my settings on SW 4.2. Well worth a try if you haven’t already.


----------



## omniweltall

gLer said:


> SonarWorks does wonders for the bass and kills the treble peak. +1 bass +3 tilt 50% wet. Those are my settings on SW 4.2. Well worth a try if you haven’t already.


Not familiar about sonarworks. But i heard good stuff about it from others. 

I use the Loki.


----------



## Ichos

Hmm Loki is a good idea but I will have to sacrifice the fully balanced chain with Mjolnir 2.

BTW - I also used sdr and Dekoni Hybrids with my HD800 but at the end I preferred the HD800s.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

omniweltall said:


> Then you will not hear THAT bass. Try eq-ing the bass up. It is fantastic. It is one of the best bass Ive personally have ever heard.
> 
> Which tube amp are u using? In general, try to avoid OTL. It fixes the tonality, but I feel soundstage and detail takes a hit. But of coz depends on the amp as well.


Just a humble clone of the Little Dot mk4... Never thought about EQ my cans, but tbh the sound is perfect for the music I like (Vietnamese cheesy soft music)


----------



## johnjen

omniweltall said:


> Then you will not hear THAT bass. Try eq-ing the bass up. It is fantastic. It is one of the best bass Ive personally have ever heard.
> 
> Which tube amp are u using? In general, try to avoid OTL. It fixes the tonality, but I feel soundstage and detail takes a hit. But of coz depends on the amp as well.


I too have been using what I call *SSBB*  SubSonicBassBoost for several years now and it along with a few other tweaks can go along way in delivering kick ass bass on 800's.

My bottom end EQ is simple.
I go into the parametric EQ inside MediaCenter and use these 'starter' settings.
Q= .52 Freq = 14hz  gain is +15dB
and 
-9dB left and right, so the bass boost isn't clipping nor 'mis-behaving'.
This curve fairly closely matches the natural fall off, of the 800's.
And I would suggest playing with those 'starter' set of ParaEQ settings, to suit you and your system

And Sonar works using the unlimited EQ set of 800 curves works rather well as well.
And I agree that tubes can do a marvelous job with the bass on 800's.

And a trick I just figured out that may be old news to some but bears repeating, just because.

If you are running high Ω cans on speaker taps from a tube power amp try this trick.
Add 15Ω resistors of say 5-10watts (or less depending…) across the 16Ω taps, for Senns and anything over ≈ 100Ω.

This should help run the tube closer to its 'sweet(r) spot'.
It sure did for my BIG 45 amp.

JJ


----------



## omniweltall (Mar 27, 2019)

johnjen said:


> I too have been using what I call *SSBB*  SubSonicBassBoost for several years now and it along with a few other tweaks can go along way in delivering kick ass bass on 800's.
> 
> My bottom end EQ is simple.
> I go into the parametric EQ inside MediaCenter and use these 'starter' settings.
> ...


JJ,

I have to learn from you on how to maximize my HD800. That is why i call my HD800 "fixed" instead of fixed. I have a feeling it can go even further with your mod.


----------



## omniweltall

WilliamLeonhart said:


> Just a humble clone of the Little Dot mk4... Never thought about EQ my cans, but tbh the sound is perfect for the music I like (Vietnamese cheesy soft music)


I have never heard of viet music. Please PM me if you have good recommendation. I love female vocals.


----------



## johnjen (Mar 27, 2019)

omniweltall said:


> JJ,
> 
> I have to learn from you on how to maximize my HD800. That is why i call my HD800 "fixed" instead of fixed. I have a feeling it can go even further with your mod.


Yes the *SSBB* mod in conjunction with *EQ* and *PRT* (Phase Reversal Tweak) all contribute and reinforce each other.
I've written up and posted these mods in the Cookbook thread…
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-diyrs-cookbook.781268/page-15#post_12300653

Between the *PRT* and the *SSBB* mods, the bass specifically, gets a major step up in all the parameters I deem important and look for as improvements.

And while I no longer use Sonarworks (there are other posts in this series, that go into more detail of my current EQ setup) it is a really good place to start and for many may well be suitable enough so that the fussy task of dialing in how I have my current EQ setup, need not be used.

JJ


----------



## yates7592

JJ  - can you please point me to where you give your dialled in EQ curve in lieu of Sonarworks?


----------



## johnjen

Sure.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-diyrs-cookbook.781268/page-24#post_12489775

And these settings will get you started and are close but changing them a little bit here and there can help dial them in for you and your setup.

JJ


----------



## chimney189 (Apr 4, 2019)

I just purchased an HD-800 with SDR mod included.. has anyone tried it with the Violectric HPA V181? Any impressions? I'll also be running it on balanced. My DAC is the Burson DA-160, which I'm hoping will add some subtle warmth.


----------



## bgtip (Apr 8, 2019)

I'm quite aware that this is a scam, but I wondered how the seller will make money of it, because at the end Amazon is supposed to refund undelivered purchases?


----------



## Thenewguy007

Two reviews & both negative reviews. I would say that is a good sign to stay away.


----------



## FiGuY1017

I can’t help but to laugh to myself when I read in various threads “ the HD800 is outdated” the HD800’s isn’t good anymore” the HD800’s  been passed up” LOL then why is every headphone still measured by it to this day, in all these various threads!? Why, to my ears is it still one of the best? Hmm must be my equipment I guess


----------



## chimney189

FiGuY1017 said:


> I can’t help but to laugh to myself when I read in various threads “ the HD800 is outdated” the HD800’s isn’t good anymore” the HD800’s  been passed up” LOL then why is every headphone still measured by it to this day, in all these various threads!? Why, to my ears is it still one of the best? Hmm must be my equipment I guess



I have to agree with you on this one. I've actually bought and sold this headphone a total of 5 times, no joke, but I always want to have it back in my stable. It's just so impressive in so many aspects when combined with the right cable and set-up. Sure, I have my posted up in the forum for sale.. but that's only to get one with a different cable.


----------



## omniweltall (Apr 11, 2019)

The HD800/650/600 remain to be my favorite headphones to date.


----------



## FiGuY1017

Yep if the day comes and each can has to go, the 800 will be hanging solo till the end


----------



## Ichos

chimney189 said:


> I have to agree with you on this one. I've actually bought and sold this headphone a total of 5 times, no joke, but I always want to have it back in my stable. It's just so impressive in so many aspects when combined with the right cable and set-up. Sure, I have my posted up in the forum for sale.. but that's only to get one with a different cable.



How it compares against the Ether 2?


----------



## chimney189

Ichos said:


> How it compares against the Ether 2?



I'd say that are almost polar opposites. The one thing that they both have in spades is comfort and clarity.
The Ether 2 is darker, has more bass, a fuller, lower mid-range and a smaller soundstage.
The HD 800 is more focused on a heightened treble response, less body in the mid-range and a wider soundstage.
They compliment each other nicely.


----------



## ruthieandjohn (Apr 11, 2019)

FiGuY1017 said:


> Yep if the day comes and each can has to go, the 800 will be hanging solo till the end


I agree... HD800 forever.  I love mine with its HDVD800 amp, both in matching red and black, thanks to Colorware.


----------



## paradoxper

FiGuY1017 said:


> I can’t help but to laugh to myself when I read in various threads “ the HD800 is outdated” the HD800’s isn’t good anymore” the HD800’s  been passed up” LOL then why is every headphone still measured by it to this day, in all these various threads!? Why, to my ears is it still one of the best? Hmm must be my equipment I guess



This is Head-Fi. FOTM never dies.


----------



## FiGuY1017

ruthieandjohn said:


> I agree... HD800 forever.  I love mine with its HDVD800 amp, both in matching red and black,
> Very sharp looking rig!


----------



## FiGuY1017

That’s no lie and I trust my HD800 like I trust my glock 19, they will both outlast me I'm sure


----------



## omniweltall

chimney189 said:


> I'd say that are almost polar opposites. The one thing that they both have in spades is comfort and clarity.
> The Ether 2 is darker, has more bass, a fuller, lower mid-range and a smaller soundstage.
> The HD 800 is more focused on a heightened treble response, less body in the mid-range and a wider soundstage.
> They compliment each other nicely.


To me, mrspeakers was having troubles with tonality after the alpha dog. But i kept hearing good things abt the Ether 2. Gotta try it.


----------



## nephilim32

I’m keeping my HD 800 C’s forever as well. Still to this day, they have uncanny width and detail that surpass a ton of headphones...maybe even all? I dunno but the 800’s are even wider than the Orpheus however of course not as deep. 
I’m sticking with this headphone. There is no such thing as a perfect headphone however I have to say the 800C’s have very few flaws given for what their purpose is, which is total detail Annihilation lol.


----------



## chimney189

nephilim32 said:


> I’m keeping my HD 800 C’s forever as well. Still to this day, they have uncanny width and detail that surpass a ton of headphones...maybe even all? I dunno but the 800’s are even wider than the Orpheus however of course not as deep.
> I’m sticking with this headphone. There is no such thing as a perfect headphone however I have to say the 800C’s have very few flaws given for what their purpose is, which is total detail Annihilation lol.



I noticed that you have the Burson Soloist SL. It’s one of my favorite amps, especially with the HD 800. What kind of cable do you have with the HD 800?


----------



## johnjen (Apr 14, 2019)

Those are ALO cables, made with 22g Jenna wire.

I have the larger 18g ALO cables 2 wire/driver version, hardwired into my 800's, instead of the 4 wire/driver version as shown in the picture.

I don't think ALO still offers those cables, but this Jenna Labs wire is still available for those brave enough to try and stuff that much copper into such a tiny space and then solder them to even tinier connector pins.

Even hardwiring is pushing the envelope to its max.



 


JJ


----------



## Ichos

You have promoted modding to another level.
Congratulations.


----------



## johnjen

Yeah I'm pushing the envelope to be sure.
And this implementation of hardwiring is but one of several mods I have made to my 800-Jmods, which together have resulted in a significant step up in SQ.

And to me this also speaks to the 800's scaleability, in that as mods have been made, they keep 'stepping up' with SQ improvements that are most gratifying.

JJ


----------



## chimney189

johnjen said:


> Yeah I'm pushing the envelope to be sure.
> And this implementation of hardwiring is but one of several mods I have made to my 800-Jmods, which together have resulted in a significant step up in SQ.
> 
> And to me this also speaks to the 800's scaleability, in that as mods have been made, they keep 'stepping up' with SQ improvements that are most gratifying.
> ...



I just purchased a modded SDR HD 800 with a hardwired DHC Complement4 balanced cable. It's taking me awhile to get used to the fact that I won't ever be able to switch it out unless I develop the skills to do so.


----------



## Nik74

chimney189 said:


> I just purchased a modded SDR HD 800 with a hardwired DHC Complement4 balanced cable. It's taking me awhile to get used to the fact that I won't ever be able to switch it out unless I develop the skills to do so.



Well if it is any consolation, the stock cable is so tightly attached to the headphones that when I get the itch to try something else, I ll get it back to the shop to have the cable changed , I tried to pull it out the other day and gave up for fear of damaging the connectors !


----------



## sup27606

In my HD800, the stock connectors are not tight at all. Mine is one of the early generations. May be it depends on the specific batch.


----------



## protoss (Apr 15, 2019)

FiGuY1017 said:


> I can’t help but to laugh to myself when I read in various threads “ the HD800 is outdated” the HD800’s isn’t good anymore” the HD800’s  been passed up” LOL then why is every headphone still measured by it to this day, in all these various threads!? Why, to my ears is it still one of the best? Hmm must be my equipment I guess



Those are the jealous dealers, promoters, and owners of other headphones spreading false information to the gullible timid souls.

HD800 will be going down as a legendary headphone.

Let others be *fake *kings and so forth. HD800 is a legend. 

Rank "S"


----------



## johnjen

chimney189 said:


> I just purchased a modded SDR HD 800 with a hardwired DHC Complement4 balanced cable. It's taking me awhile to get used to the fact that I won't ever be able to switch it out unless I develop the skills to do so.


Yeah once the decision is made to hardwire them the choice of cables becomes a much bigger issue.
So figuring out which cable you want to use 1st is the priority.
Not to mention that securing the cable with some sort of strain relief can be a bit tricky.

Still it isn't that bad, assuming you have the skills and experience and confidence to tackle the job.
But then that applies to just about any modification made to any of our gear.

And unless you are really adept at these sorts of things, usually there is no going back, and if done well, there is usually no desire to do so.

JJ


----------



## Joong

I just come back from he-560 v3 which has been my usual phone due to being easy with my glasses, and due to its preciousness among my many phones.
Immediately technical superiority is felt across all spectrum of frequency.


----------



## omniweltall

protoss said:


> Those are the jealous dealers, promoters, and owners of other headphones spreading false information to the gullible timid souls.
> 
> HD800 will be going down as a legendary headphone.
> 
> ...


H#ll yeah!!


----------



## Law87 (Apr 15, 2019)

omniweltall said:


> To me, mrspeakers was having troubles with tonality after the alpha dog. But i kept hearing good things abt the Ether 2. Gotta try it.




If you like the HD800 you will not like the Ether 2....total 180 type of headphone, that headphone is dark!

Ether C+HD800+HD800s = HD820


HD820 is what HD800 user want and been wanting for years.


----------



## omniweltall (Apr 16, 2019)

Law87 said:


> If you like the HD800 you will not like the Ether 2....total 180 type of headphone, that headphone is dark!
> 
> Ether C+HD800+HD800s = HD820
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info, mate. I can appreciate different tonalities. Kinda add flavors to the music. I like Audeze's dark, for example.


----------



## twiceboss

I was not following up with this for quite some times. I currently still using xsabre+heron 5 for my hd800.

Is there any new dac/amp that can be as warm as this pair and having a smaller size?


----------



## Law87

omniweltall said:


> Thanks for the info, mate. I can appreciate different tonalities. Kinda add flavors to the music. I like Audeze's dark, for example.




to each their own....I cant do a 180 like that, too much of a change for me. I guess this is why I can tolerate Beyer T1 Gen 1 easily, I'm the extreme end of the spectrum. heavy bass and dark headphone is my kryptonite.


----------



## protoss

omniweltall said:


> Thanks for the info, mate. I can appreciate different tonalities. Kinda add flavors to the music. I like Audeze's dark, for example.



Yes I agree. You dont want the same sound. Better to have one bright and one dark.  

@Law87 Its better to get a Dark headphone to compliment the HD800. Audeze is a great start. Plus you named 2 closed backs. Maybe 2 open backs. 1 dark and 1 bright. And 1 closed back maybe?

I think the ultimate ideal is. 2 open backs. 1 closed and 1 staxs.


----------



## Law87

protoss said:


> Yes I agree. You dont want the same sound. Better to have one bright and one dark.
> 
> @Law87 Its better to get a Dark headphone to compliment the HD800. Audeze is a great start. Plus you named 2 closed backs. Maybe 2 open backs. 1 dark and 1 bright. And 1 closed back maybe?
> 
> I think the ultimate ideal is. 2 open backs. 1 closed and 1 staxs.



I dont hoard headphone like that, once I like a headphone I stay with it and actually listen to it daily and weekly, some people have 30 pairs and listen to it once a year, which is fine, but I'm not rich . If I have a Lamborghini Veneno, I'll probably drive it everywhere too. Not the type to buy something and set it on the shelf.


----------



## protoss

Law87 said:


> I dont hoard headphone like that, once I like a headphone I stay with it and actually listen to it daily and weekly, some people have 30 pairs and listen to it once a year, which is fine, but I'm not rich . If I have a Lamborghini Veneno, I'll probably drive it everywhere too. Not the type to buy something and set it on the shelf.



Yes, understand. Audeze LCD2C is pretty good on price. Not saying you should go out and buy LCD4? Or Meze Emp? It would be nice thou... 
Overall, HD800 is enough for most things.


----------



## FiGuY1017

twiceboss said:


> I was not following up with this for quite some times. I currently still using xsabre+heron 5 for my hd800.
> 
> Is there any new dac/amp that can be as warm as this pair and having a smaller size?
> 
> That Heron 5 is a killer amp, my endgame. I cant comment on a smaller amp but I can give a recommendation for a nice endgame dac, that is small. M2tech Young MKIII and a VanderGraph MKII IMO Great sounding dac that makes my 800 sing.


----------



## twiceboss

True that heron 5 makes hd800 smooth. Im still waiting my vokyl erupt from indigogo though...


----------



## defbear

I am fortunate to have a variety of nicer headphones that run the gamut from bright to dark. My set of original HD800’s is my favorite set. My complement to the HD800’s is my Fostex TH900 set. Super bass that does not overwhelm the other frequencies but stays put. And great clarity. Unlike the HD800, you can ‘drive’ it with just about anything. I use a microZOTL with them. I have a desktop system, that you can’t lift, for the HD800’s.


----------



## gLer

protoss said:


> Yes I agree. You dont want the same sound. Better to have one bright and one dark.
> 
> @Law87 Its better to get a Dark headphone to compliment the HD800. Audeze is a great start. Plus you named 2 closed backs. Maybe 2 open backs. 1 dark and 1 bright. And 1 closed back maybe?
> 
> I think the ultimate ideal is. 2 open backs. 1 closed and 1 staxs.


To me the ideal is one headphone you absolutely love and listen to often. In my experience one headphone can’t really cover all the music I listen to perfectly, or sometimes I feel like a change of flavour, so two complementary headphones are a good compromise, even though one will get used much more often than the other. Each to his own - I’m not in this hobby to collect headphones, I’m in it to find the best for my taste and wallet and use them for what they’re meant for.


----------



## RCBinTN

Personally, I like two complementary headphones ... bright and darker.
I've settled on HD800 and Audez'e LCD-4.

I've loved the Audez'e house sound, for years, starting with the LCD-X.
The LCD-4 resolution of "micro-details" beats the other Audez'e HPs by a wide margin, IMO.
YMMV


----------



## Joong (Apr 16, 2019)

RCBinTN said:


> Personally, I like two complementary headphones ... bright and darker.
> I've settled on HD800 and Audez'e LCD-4.
> 
> I've loved the Audez'e house sound, for years, starting with the LCD-X.
> ...


You are in perfect condition.
Mines are Hd800 / He560 and Nighthawk.
Hd800 and He560 are competing whereas Nighthawk complements them but there is some missing in sub-bass.
I try to get LCD-2 fazor to complement Hd800 with sub-bass.
Hd800 will carry all those layers of orchestration but still lacking in percussion and in liquidity nature of sound that is found in well driven planars even found in he-560.


----------



## nephilim32

chimney189 said:


> I noticed that you have the Burson Soloist SL. It’s one of my favorite amps, especially with the HD 800. What kind of cable do you have with the HD 800?



Yup. As stated. It’s an ALO reference 16 cable. Has 8 copper and 8 silver individual conductors. 
I’ve had it for 5 years now and the Burson as well! 
Using a chord qutest set at 3V RMS to pair with the Burson for the HD 800’s. It is a really good, transparent pairing. Very happy with my set up for the 800’s, however one day I’d love to get an extremely high end tube amp to pair with them.


----------



## nephilim32

To the above. ^

Yeah. The light and Dark concept is fantastic. Having the difference is so terrific. I recently this year graduated greatly to that concept by picking up an LCD XC. 
I am definitely in love with it. I know the LCD XC is not the warmest sounding with in the lcd line up, however for me it sounds quite a bit darker and more bass heavy than my 800’s. 
Love it all! 
And lastly. I still think the HD 800’s are still very competitive with the best flagship made headphones today. I’ve tried just about all of them and I can safely say the 800’s still have huge weight!


----------



## yates7592

Has anybody used a 300B SET amp with HD800? Impressions?


----------



## IkSak

Hi,

Has anyone tried the HD800 with the Massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid and/or the Liquid Carbon?


----------



## BobJS

IkSak said:


> Hi,
> 
> Has anyone tried the HD800 with the Massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid and/or the Liquid Carbon?



I "Anaxilus" Mod'd my HD800 and it sounds delightful with the Massdrop Liquid Carbon.


----------



## wormsdriver (Apr 22, 2019)

Hey guys,  I'm looking to buy an hd800 or hd800s for my next headphone purchase. Is there any general consensus on amps under $1000 (new or used) that pair well with these cans? I would like something that could keep up with my dac (rme-adi dac 2) resolution wise.

Separate question, has anybody here used a Graham Slee Solo Ultra Linear Diamond Edition with their hd800's that would care to comment on that pairing?


----------



## FiGuY1017

If you can still find one, I can recommend the Airist Audio Heron 5 it’s magic with the HD800’s and a great choice for a endgame amp imo. Just not sure they make them anymore.


----------



## omniweltall

The RME is the clean and clear type of sound. The HD800 is also that. I'm thinking something smooth, but still able to exploit HD800's technicalities. 

I'm thinking of these 3 on top of my head (in order of preference):
1. Liquid Platinum 
2. Zana Deux Jr.
3. MCTH


----------



## lugnut

FiGuY1017 said:


> If you can still find one, I can recommend the Airist Audio Heron 5 it’s magic with the HD800’s and a great choice for a endgame amp imo. Just not sure they make them anymore.


Are they not being produced anymore ?


----------



## FiGuY1017

They still have a website, but last time I looked there wasn’t a buy option” there may be now though.


----------



## omniweltall

Hold on. I forgot one really good one. The Bottlehead Crack with speedball. Get that one.


----------



## FiGuY1017

http://www.airistaudio.com/product/heron-5/


----------



## Ichos

omniweltall said:


> The RME is the clean and clear type of sound. The HD800 is also that. I'm thinking something smooth, but still able to exploit HD800's technicalities.
> 
> I'm thinking of these 3 on top of my head (in order of preference):
> 1. Liquid Platinum
> ...



I have read a lot of times that MCTH is on the bright and lean side of things or not?


----------



## omniweltall

No amp is perfect. The MCTH can tame HD800's treble peak and maintain its soundstage. I think it would still be a good match for the HD800. 

OK. I got it. Get the Bottlehead Crack for now, and save money for the EC Zana Deux S for the HD800.


----------



## Ichos

I am getting tired of tube amps....


----------



## lugnut

Just out of curiosity, what aspect of tube amps are you tired of ?


----------



## Ichos

Changing tubes , chasing for the right sound , thinking maybe this or that sounds better and hearing distortion.


----------



## omniweltall

I dont roll tubes with my tube amp. Every tube has its strength and weakness. I decided on 1 set and stick with them. For me, mid tonality and bass are my priorities.


----------



## johnjen

Until my BIG 45 amp project I stayed away from tubes for many reasons.
One of which is, it's fairly 'easy' to make a decent tube amp, but a tube amp that 'demands your attention' is much more of a rarity.
It is this level of SQ where 800's can REALLY shine and some of the commercially available tube gear can miss out in this respect.
That isn't to say they sound 'bad', well some can, but they don't grab you by your ears and force you sit and listen either.

800's can deliver, what I call Magic in the Mids (*MitM*), with delicacy and focus and a degree of 'direct personal involvement' that is compelling.

And tube rolling will never make up for a design that has certain types of 'compromises', let alone one that uses 'non-optimal' output xfmr or coupling caps.
These are some of the critical areas where "certain types of 'compromises'" are usually made.
But then none of this is new info by any stretch.

When tube based systems are tweaked, there is a level of 'direct personal involvement' with the music that is 'memorable' to say the least.
And 800's can scale right along with tubes ability to 'push the envelope'.

JJ


----------



## whirlwind (Apr 23, 2019)

I do not own the HD800 right now, but I did own it for years. I preferred the HD800 with tubes over the SS amplification.

In my own experience the headphone was far less analytical with tubes making it much more musical listening experience for me while still retaining much of the detail.
The HD800 is very transparent to to tubes IMO.

I listened to the HD800 on single ended and balanced SS amps.....but always felt tubes were best sound to my ears....YMMV of course as it is subjective.

I guess it is just a personal preference thing though as I know people who prefer the HD800 from SS amps, so basically what ever works for you....the HD800 is one great headphone that has stood the test of time and will live forever I suppose.

I listened mostly with the following tube amps. OTL....Transformer Coupled and SS


----------



## Ichos

Great amps!


----------



## Nephorsis

Has anyone tried the HD800 with the Topping DX7 dac/amp before?


----------



## Focux

whirlwind said:


> I do not own the HD800 right now, but I did own it for years. I preferred the HD800 with tubes over the SS amplification.
> 
> In my own experience the headphone was far less analytical with tubes making it much more musical listening experience for me while still retaining much of the detail.
> The HD800 is very transparent to to tubes IMO.
> ...



Wow nice GSX..


----------



## RCBinTN

whirlwind said:


> I do not own the HD800 right now, but I did own it for years. I preferred the HD800 with tubes over the SS amplification.
> 
> In my own experience the headphone was far less analytical with tubes making it much more musical listening experience for me while still retaining much of the detail.
> The HD800 is very transparent to to tubes IMO.
> ...



I hear a bit of longing for that sweet tube amp & HD800 sound to re-appear in your home studio


----------



## whirlwind

RCBinTN said:


> I hear a bit of longing for that sweet tube amp & HD800 sound to re-appear in your home studio




I would never say never, I did own the HD650 on three separate occasions


----------



## FiGuY1017 (Jan 15, 2020)

Dlt


----------



## Law87

Ichos said:


> Changing tubes , chasing for the right sound , thinking maybe this or that sounds better and hearing distortion.




recovering addict....



I was rolling Tube with lyr 1, but I recover....going on 3 years, about to relapse with the Lyr 3 lol


----------



## RCBinTN

FiGuY1017 said:


> I’ll recommend something based on the only perspective I have, mine. So this is just my opinion. I’ve ran my 800’s from my iPhone using the cck for a long time and decided to try a laptop, to see if I could get any improvement. Well, what I found was that due to the lower output impedance of the iPhone, it’s not even close. The sound using the iPhone as a source stomps all over my laptop. The sound becomes less “forced” for lack of a better description. Give it a try if you stream, the difference was significant for my ears.  Agian, I can only speak from my experiences(my equipment, my ears)



Moving up to a better DAC will certainly help your HD800 sound, as well. The HD800 scale better than any other HP that I've heard.
My revelation moment was upgrading my DAC from Schiit's Gungnir D/S to the Gungnir MB technology. A world of difference.

I also recently tested my HD800 with a mini-rig we set-up for my son in law: Modi MB + Magni3.
The SQ was amazingly decent, for the price of that rig


----------



## Law87

RCBinTN said:


> Moving up to a better DAC will certainly help your HD800 sound, as well. The HD800 scale better than any other HP that I've heard.
> My revelation moment was upgrading my DAC from Schiit's Gungnir D/S to the Gungnir MB technology. A world of difference.
> 
> I also recently tested my HD800 with a mini-rig we set-up for my son in law: Modi MB + Magni3.
> The SQ was amazingly decent, for the price of that rig




to me honesly the original HD800 was THE pickiest when it comes to gear, I said the Amplifier has a bigger impact, it brings the highs and bring out the Lows, but not all Tube amp are good with the HD800, it ridiculous, its like dating a celebrity who has the worse Obsessive compulsive disorder. The HD800s and HD820 is much much better.


----------



## FiGuY1017

I absolutely agree, once I discovered this gem of a dac, I became a true believer in the benefits of a totl source. This MKiii/Vandergraf has been a revelation for me. Def my endgame dac until I can move up to 5k or so.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Unfortunately I’ve only heard hd820 on the Schiitty sennheiser dac amp


----------



## RCBinTN

Law87 said:


> to me honesly the original HD800 was THE pickiest when it comes to gear, I said the Amplifier has a bigger impact, it brings the highs and bring out the Lows, but not all Tube amp are good with the HD800, it ridiculous, its like dating a celebrity who has the worse Obsessive compulsive disorder. The HD800s and HD820 is much much better.



Well, I've heard all three of those HPs and prefer the HD800 by a wide margin.
The other two just don't have the same level of micro details, and the HD820 are too boomy for me (I'm not a fan of closed HPs in general).
The HD800 certainly do require the proper upstream source and rig, to reach their potential.
Most folks who describe the HD800 as overly bright, or lacking bass, haven't hit the right combination of gear (yet).



FiGuY1017 said:


> I absolutely agree, once I discovered this gem of a dac, I became a true believer in the benefits of a totl source. This MKiii/Vandergraf has been a revelation for me. Def my endgame dac until I can move up to 5k or so.



That is great to hear ... love it when a plan comes together


----------



## JamieMcC

omniweltall said:


> No amp is perfect. The MCTH can tame HD800's treble peak and maintain its soundstage. I think it would still be a good match for the HD800.
> 
> OK. I got it. Get the Bottlehead Crack for now, and save money for the EC Zana Deux S for the HD800.



If your going the diy route I would seriously consider the "Pass Whammy" from the diy audio store for the hd800. I have had a number of Cracks in the past (fully modded premium tubes etc) and currently also a Bottlehead Sex and Bottlehead Mainline.  A whammy is going to get you very close to Mainline performance/sound signature if you use a Burson V6 classic as your op amp for around quarter of the price. Its a seriously good bit of kit and a easy build designed by Wayne Colburn who is Nelson Pass's head designer engineer for something like the last 20 plus years.

There is also a thread on headfi with links

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/pass-diy-headphone-amp-whammy.877569/


----------



## comzee

Does anybody have opinions of older serial numbers (< 20k) vs newer serial numbers? Are there any differences in sound?


----------



## protoss

comzee said:


> Does anybody have opinions of older serial numbers (< 20k) vs newer serial numbers? Are there any differences in sound?



Yes, I owned sub #8xx , #2xxxx , #3xxxx , etch...

And the #8xx was more laid back and warm and somewhat worn out on the sound. I actually liked it better. 

There are differences. But the majority, about 90% of HD800 sound the same. Just the very early models sounded different. Maybe because the drivers were fully burned in?


----------



## johnjen

I think it has more to do with unit to unit variability rather than s/n groupings.

This is based upon looking at the Senn supplied FR graphs and the several sets I have heard including my own.

JJ


----------



## RCBinTN

protoss said:


> Yes, I owned sub #8xx , #2xxxx , #3xxxx , etch...
> 
> And the #8xx was more laid back and warm and somewhat worn out on the sound. I actually liked it better.
> 
> There are differences. But the majority, about 90% of HD800 sound the same. Just the very early models sounded different. Maybe because the drivers were fully burned in?



Very interesting.
Here's another data point on HD800 variation, from the "Battle of the Flagships" reviewer @DavidMahler - the first thread I read upon joining Head-Fi and still refer back to!
This is what David wrote, in October 2012:

"I own two pairs of the HD800: serial #297 and serial #10333. Serial #297 was made during the first production run while serial #10333 was manufactured approximately two years later. Initially, I purchased a second pair because the headband of my original pair encountered a recurring squeak issue. Despite several repair attempts, this problem has never been resolved to my full satisfaction.

However, what I've found is that the two HD800s have some very noticeable sonic differences. The earlier pair (#297) has a fuller tone and is slightly more laid-back in the highs. This is, in my opinion, not a result of burn-in; I've owned the later pair for nearly two years and I still maintain this view. While many people are of the belief that there will always be differences from model to model (a belief I most certainly don't disagree with), I have had the opportunity to hear several early models and several later models of the HD800; in my opinion, the earlier ones have a slightly fuller tone. I am not certain as to when the sonic transition took place or what may have caused it. 

Despite the earlier model's fuller tone, if I had to pick which of the two pairs was my preference, I would choose the later. I feel that the later model (#10333) offers a greater degree of transparency and puts more air around the instruments. The noted differences are not so drastic, but I have done several blind tests and I always know which headphone is which."


----------



## comzee

RCBinTN said:


> The earlier pair (#297) has a fuller tone and is slightly more laid-back in the highs. This is, in my opinion, not a result of burn-in; I've owned the later pair for nearly two years and I still maintain this view.


I can't find the info anymore, but I read that the first run HD800 uses a different material for the drivers, then Sennheiser switched it for cost reasons. This would be like only < #2000ish S/N


----------



## RCBinTN

comzee said:


> I can't find the info anymore, but I read that the first run HD800 uses a different material for the drivers, then Sennheiser switched it for cost reasons. This would be like only < #2000ish S/N



I, for one, would be very interested if you could find that information. Just as a reference statement


----------



## protoss

@RCBinTN 

Yes, it seems like David had the same exact pairs I had. Not surprise at all. I differ with him on that i like the more laid back version. Its a HD800 headphone with a laid back signature! My god man thats amazing!


----------



## P+D-MI

protoss said:


> @RCBinTN
> 
> Yes, it seems like David had the same exact pairs I had. Not surprise at all. I differ with him on that i like the more laid back version. Its a HD800 headphone with a laid back signature! My god man thats amazing!


I have HD800 #4** and I can attest to that. Mine definitely sounds more laid back than newer pairs I've heard.


----------



## gLer

protoss said:


> @RCBinTN
> 
> Yes, it seems like David had the same exact pairs I had. Not surprise at all. I differ with him on that i like the more laid back version. Its a HD800 headphone with a laid back signature! My god man thats amazing!


I get the same effect with my #14xxx serial HD800, SDR modded and plugged into a richly analogue NOS R2R dac


----------



## protoss

gLer said:


> I get the same effect with my #14xxx serial HD800, SDR modded and plugged into a richly analogue NOS R2R dac



Oh yea. No doubt about that. No one really needs the older models to enjoy a nice laid back HD800. The right amps and cables and you good to go. 

The older models are just an interest topic. No need to hunt them down.


----------



## 340519

Well fellas, I just bouht a pair of hd800 s, not the S version. I'm very excited. I'm, be pairing them with the Benchmark Dac2 and also the JDS Labs O2 and EL DAC. Man, am I stoked to have some endgame headphones!


----------



## comzee

dmdm said:


> Well fellas, I just bouht a pair of hd800 s, not the S version. I'm very excited. I'm, be pairing them with the Benchmark Dac2 and also the JDS Labs O2 and EL DAC. Man, am I stoked to have some endgame headphones!


I'd highly recommend you get SDR for them. Imo it's an essential mod. In my mind HD800 only become better than HD800S with the addition of the SDR mod. It's gob simple to install.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm very fond of them with @Baldr's industry-leading multibit DACs.


----------



## 340519 (May 2, 2019)

comzee said:


> I'd highly recommend you get SDR for them. Imo it's an essential mod. In my mind HD800 only become better than HD800S with the addition of the SDR mod. It's gob simple to install.


Ok, how do I get this mod. Do you have a link?


----------



## Law87

dmdm said:


> Well fellas, I just bouht a pair of hd800 s, not the S version. I'm very excited. I'm, be pairing them with the Benchmark Dac2 and also the JDS Labs O2 and EL DAC. Man, am I stoked to have some endgame headphones!




looking at your current headphone, I'm gonna say you might not like your HD800. no Tube either, you gonna hate life.


----------



## 340519 (May 2, 2019)

Law87 said:


> looking at your current headphone, I'm gonna say you might not like your HD800. no Tube either, you gonna hate life.


What do you mean? I dig the treble.
The hd650s are too dark for me. I'm yearning for sparkle.


----------



## Law87

dmdm said:


> What do you mean? I dig the treble.




so do I...but I hated the HD800. The dude above recommend SDR to tame the the treble...


----------



## 340519

Whoa,  after looking at that mod I will leave the 800 s alone. I've read that a lot of you love the 800. So here's hoping. Money has exchanged hands. The sparkle of the sundaras is addictive, so I'm hoping the 800 s give more of that insight.


----------



## 340519

I'll use the eq in jriver to tame them if it's that bad.


----------



## Law87

dmdm said:


> Whoa,  after looking at that mod I will leave the 800 s alone. I've read that a lot of you love the 800. So here's hoping. Money has exchanged hands. The sparkle of the sundaras is addictive, so I'm hoping the 800 s give more of that insight.




yea because they got particular amp to go along with it, like a tube amp. thats the other thing with HD800, if you dont have the right tube amp it will sound horrid. If you have solid state it will sound bright...its picky


----------



## 340519

Well I've come to realize that I like the highs after the absence with the 650s.


----------



## 340519

FiGuY1017 said:


> Yep if the day comes and each can has to go, the 800 will be hanging solo till the end


I'm very excited to


omniweltall said:


> The HD800/650/600 remain to be my favorite headphones to date.


Well I'm adding the 800 to the 650 stable and I'm stoked. I really like the sparkle so I'm


Joong said:


> A masterpiece needs nothing additional to get it shine.
> 
> It was long and winding road finally to get HD800, which is a masterpiece for classical / orchestral music for sure.


This is what I'm talking about. Very encouraging.


----------



## 340519

omniweltall said:


> Earlier in my audio journey, I had a listen to HD800 in a shop, then completely ignored it (sounded too thin, bright with no bass) and skipped to the next TOTL. That was the dumbest choice ever, as I had a series of bad experience with headphones. It took me about a year to come back to the HD800, when someone let me have a listen to his HD800. Actually I came across to HD650 first, then back to HD800. I just recently bought an HD600. My headphone experienced only began to stabilize after HD650/800. Those two are my benchmark.
> 
> Point is...you gotta tweak it first and create a system around it. Even a simple EQ on the bass will improve its sound.


Great post.


----------



## 340519 (May 3, 2019)

My speakers are golden ears that have a lovely lively top end, and that's why I  jumped at the chance to grab a used pair of these. The hifiman Sundaras opened my ears to the sparkle. Part of the magic is their 6k spike, but I guess I'll  hear first hand soon enough.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Mjolnir 2 w/ LISST sounds fine to me


----------



## gLer

Law87 said:


> so do I...but I hated the HD800. The dude above recommend SDR to tame the the treble...


Not quite correct, it flattens the peaks slightly and doesn’t affect the bass or overall treble energy.


----------



## gLer

Law87 said:


> yea because they got particular amp to go along with it, like a tube amp. thats the other thing with HD800, if you dont have the right tube amp it will sound horrid. If you have solid state it will sound bright...its picky


I respectfully disagree. My HD800 sounds smooth as silk out of a solid state/R2R dac combo. It’s all about synergy. Some tubes will be brighter than SS, and the other way round. The HD800 is very amp picky, but depending on how you like your sound there’s always an amp out there that’ll get them to sound just the way you like them - and for sure you don’t need tubes to make that happen. I’m very treble sensitive and the HD800 has the best treble response I’ve heard to date.


----------



## Law87

gLer said:


> Not quite correct, it flattens the peaks slightly and doesn’t affect the bass or overall treble energy.




....thats exactly what I said "tame the treble" I never said anything about bass.


----------



## Law87

gLer said:


> I respectfully disagree. My HD800 sounds smooth as silk out of a solid state/R2R dac combo. It’s all about synergy. Some tubes will be brighter than SS, and the other way round. The HD800 is very amp picky, but depending on how you like your sound there’s always an amp out there that’ll get them to sound just the way you like them - and for sure you don’t need tubes to make that happen. I’m very treble sensitive and the HD800 has the best treble response I’ve heard to date.



....thats because yours is modded...buying an $800-$900 headphone and then taking it apart to just to copy the HD800S seems like a dumb idea, considering the fact that 1. you could royally mess something up, 2. when you can find an HD800s for around the same price.

I listened to the HD800s on 3-4 amp/dac combo and only one sounded good. You are not treble sensitive if you think the HD800 is good, but hey, your ears. I'm not treble sensitive and I think the HD800 treble is bad.


----------



## J Mirra

I have a SDR modded HD800 and the Audio-GD R2R11 and I am gob smacked every time I listened,  smooth yet dynamic, perfect bass and treble, mid range / vocals are perfect.

I used to use the coax out at first and the the S's in vocals could now and again tizz sssss on hot recordings.
I switched to USB using the JRivers 64bit volume setting so I can control the volume from my PC and it has gone.


----------



## gLer

Law87 said:


> You are not treble sensitive if you think the HD800 is good, but hey, your ears. I'm not treble sensitive and I think the HD800 treble is bad.


You’re right, I’m sensitive to BAD treble. The HD800 treble on my system is superb (and was before the SDR mod as well). I put off buying one for years because of generalisations like yours. Glad I finally took the plunge and heard it for myself.


----------



## Law87

gLer said:


> You’re right, I’m sensitive to BAD treble. The HD800 treble on my system is superb (and was before the SDR mod as well). I put off buying one for years because of generalisations like yours. Glad I finally took the plunge and heard it for myself.



If it sound so good then why mod it? must have not been that good huh?

I didnt generalize anything, I stated what I hear, and what my friend hear and mutually agreed on. surprisingly thats one of the few things we agreed on out of the 20-30s pair of headphone and the 3-4 high quality AMP/DACs that he had. Its not even just us, it s the majority of the community. Those that really likes it are the one that really love Sennheiser, as do I, but keep telling a company you love to do something that is inherently wrong is not the way to improve things. The proof is when Sennheiser fixed the HD800 with the HD800s.


----------



## Law87

J Mirra said:


> I have a SDR modded HD800 and the Audio-GD R2R11 and I am gob smacked every time I listened,  smooth yet dynamic, perfect bass and treble, mid range / vocals are perfect.
> 
> I used to use the coax out at first and the the S's in vocals could now and again tizz sssss on hot recordings.
> I switched to USB using the JRivers 64bit volume setting so I can control the volume from my PC and it has gone.




thats call sibilant and its one of the fault of the HD800. Again its not perfect if you are listing faults right after it, just because you cant hear in an instance doesnt mean the problem is fixed, it just your head tune to it and ignore it because you gotten used to it.


----------



## gLer

Law87 said:


> If it sound so good then why mod it? must have not been that good huh?
> 
> I didnt generalize anything, I stated what I hear, and what my friend hear and mutually agreed on. surprisingly thats one of the few things we agreed on out of the 20-30s pair of headphone and the 3-4 high quality AMP/DACs that he had. Its not even just us, it s the majority of the community. Those that really likes it are the one that really love Sennheiser, as do I, but keep telling a company you love to do something that is inherently wrong is not the way to improve things. The proof is when Sennheiser fixed the HD800 with the HD800s.


I modded it because of all the positive feedback I had from people I trust that did the mod. For me it smoothed out the sound ever so slightly, and I liked the change, not that I didn’t like the sound before. It’s a very subtle change, unlike the HD800s which I heard on my system and didn’t like. Unlike the SDR mod, the 800S messes with the bass in a way I didn’t like. So as far as I’m concerned Sennheiser fixed nothing. For what it’s worth I’m not a Senn fanboy, the 800 is the only one of their headphones I really enjoy. In fact for what you can buy it used for today, it’s probably the biggest bargain in head-fi right now. If it needs to be said this is my personal opinion, and just happens to be shared by many enthusiasts far more knowledgeable and experienced than me.


----------



## J Mirra

Law87 said:


> thats call sibilant and its one of the fault of the HD800. Again its not perfect if you are listing faults right after it, just because you cant hear in an instance doesnt mean the problem is fixed, it just your head tune to it and ignore it because you gotten used to it.


This guy is right, I now hate mine and you all should too.


----------



## gLer

Law87 said:


> thats call sibilant and its one of the fault of the HD800. Again its not perfect if you are listing faults right after it, just because you cant hear in an instance doesnt mean the problem is fixed, it just your head tune to it and ignore it because you gotten used to it.


The 800S was more sibilant on my system than the 800. I bought the 800 because it sounds better to me, not because I can’t afford an 800S.


----------



## J Mirra

Was not a fault of the HD800 it was a fault of the coax out on my Asus Xonar but he knows best.


----------



## Law87

gLer said:


> I modded it because of all the positive feedback I had from people I trust that did the mod. For me it smoothed out the sound ever so slightly, and I liked the change, not that I didn’t like the sound before. It’s a very subtle change, unlike the HD800s which I heard on my system and didn’t like. Unlike the SDR mod, the 800S messes with the bass in a way I didn’t like. So as far as I’m concerned Sennheiser fixed nothing. For what it’s worth I’m not a Senn fanboy, the 800 is the only one of their headphones I really enjoy. In fact for what you can buy it used for today, it’s probably the biggest bargain in head-fi right now. If it needs to be said this is my personal opinion, and just happens to be shared by many enthusiasts far more knowledgeable and experienced than me.




You are contradicting yourself left and right...who in their right mind go fixes something that isnt broken? you claim the treble was perfect, yet you went out of your way to mod your HD800 to tame the treble. The bass was raised by probably 1db compares to stock, whatever your mod did, probably mess with the bass.


----------



## gLer

Law87 said:


> You are contradicting yourself left and right...who in their right mind go fixes something that isnt broken? you claim the treble was perfect, yet you went out of your way to mod your HD800 to tame the treble. The bass was raised by probably 1db compares to stock, whatever your mod did, probably mess with the bass.


Yeah you’re right. I don’t know what I was thinking. I’ll remove the mod immediately and sell the HD800. What a waste of money. Please go troll somewhere else if you have nothing of value to add to this thread.


----------



## Skullophile




----------



## J Mirra

Playstation v Xbox,  Man united V Liverpool, Betamax v Vhs, bloody humans huh.


----------



## gLer

J Mirra said:


> Playstation v Xbox,  Man united V Liverpool, Betamax v Vhs, bloody humans huh.


Leave Liverpool out of this, I’m still hurting


----------



## J Mirra

gLer said:


> Leave Liverpool out of this, I’m still hurting


Oops.


----------



## omniweltall (May 3, 2019)

Debating over hd800 is pointless. It sounds different out of different systems. Probably we are all hearing different things.

Problem is that, just like hd600/650, some people try them out of their systems and dislike it. And then completely disregard it. That was my mistake too. 

Problem with hd800's treble is quantity, not quality. Out of my system, it sounds really good. Is it the best? Im very confident that it is not. 

For example I used to think hd600/650's weakness is in the bass. Then I only recently discovered that the bass is actually their strengths. And I thought I knew my HD600/650...


----------



## gLer

omniweltall said:


> Debating over hd800 is pointless. It sounds different out of different systems. Probably we are all hearing different things.
> 
> Problem is that, just like hd600/650, some people try them out of their systems and dislike it. And then completely disregard it.
> 
> Problem with hd800's treble is quantity, not quality. Out of my system, it sounds really good. Is it the best? Im very confident that it is not.


Agreed, a more chameleon-like headphone I haven’t heard. And is there anything in this hobby that can really be called ‘best’? Not with so many different ears around. It is very certainly the most unique headphone I’ve heard in how it presents sound, one of only a handful of headphones I’ve heard that can genuinely be called different to everything else that’s out there.


----------



## 340519 (May 3, 2019)

gLer said:


> I respectfully disagree. My HD800 sounds smooth as silk out of a solid state/R2R dac combo. It’s all about synergy. Some tubes will be brighter than SS, and the other way round. The HD800 is very amp picky, but depending on how you like your sound there’s always an amp out there that’ll get them to sound just the way you like them - and for sure you don’t need tubes to make that happen. I’m very treble sensitive and the HD800 has the best treble response I’ve heard to date.


This sounds very encouraging. Like I said, if the treble is too much for me I'll use sennheiser android eq to tame the 6khz peak.


----------



## gLer

dmdm said:


> This sounds very encouraging. Like I said, if the treble is too much for me I'll use the eq in jriver to tame the 6khz peak.


Exactly right. I've also found that SonarWorks is an excellent match for the HD800. I often use it to get a different flavour, because the HD800 is so responsive and transparent. You can mess with its FR with very little impact on SQ and almost zero distortion, which is more than I can say for many other so-called flagship headphones I've used.


----------



## comzee (May 3, 2019)

It's unfortunate if I caused some drama mentioning SDR. Here's another data point tho. The "hd800s" uses it's own SDR per se. https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/8422188.jpg
It's that center piece. In the stock hd800 there is nothing in the center https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/4743568.jpg
And this is stock hd800 with SDR https://i.imgur.com/ft37axe.jpg
Sennheiser themselves knew this approach worked, and reduced the 6khz spike that's inherent with that driver and housing design.
It's not about "fixing" anything, it's just about making something better (to most). Some people like that 6khz spike, that's completely ok.

The odd thing is tho, somehow Sennheiser tweaked or did something else to the "hd800s" and it has slightly less defined bass than the hd800.
This is why most, in the know, go for hd800sdr over hd800s. You could say it's the best of both worlds.

Again, if you like the 6khz spike, don't do sdr, and don't get hd800s.
Pretty much sums it up.


----------



## JamieMcC (May 3, 2019)

The achilles heel of the hd800 is it's brutally transparency which will shine a light on upstream inadequacies of other component in your chain.
I would suspect the majority of those who complain about sibilance or lack of bass thin mids etc just haven't been fortunate to hear what the hd800 is capable of on a synergistic system.  Those who have know all to well its still a reference level headphone that will easily hold its own against newer cans costing significantly more.

With the hd800 its all about the chain. But the SDR mod is easy and inexpensive to do only costing the equivalent to a cup of coffee if you feel its needed. The effect it has you could probably compared to dropping a couple of hundred dollars on a fancy aftermarket cable so for a couple $ its a real no brainer.


----------



## omniweltall

gLer said:


> Agreed, a more chameleon-like headphone I haven’t heard. And is there anything in this hobby that can really be called ‘best’?


Sorry. I meant "is it the best system for hd800? Im very confident it is not" LOL.

I'm very confident of HD800's technicalitites. Though it wont be the best in all aspects, HD800 is truly a TOTL can. If you can find the right system for it, it will be very hard to beat.


----------



## omniweltall (May 3, 2019)

Careful when choosing a system for the hd800. We dont want something that fixes the tonality but takes away that technicalities. For example the bakoon and heron 5 may give good bass quantity and widens the stage. But they smooth over the details and flattens the stage. I initially thought they were good pairing.


----------



## 340519

Do you all recommend an eq for android that I can use with Tidal? Thanks


----------



## Law87

gLer said:


> Yeah you’re right. I don’t know what I was thinking. I’ll remove the mod immediately and sell the HD800. What a waste of money. Please go troll somewhere else if you have nothing of value to add to this thread.



The fact that you still cannot answer my question, and contradict yourself several time over proves to me that you absolutely oblivious to the matters. Fixing something that isnt broken to improve something that doesnt need to be improved is an oxymoron. The fact of the matter is, the treble spike is a problem, that is why you implement the fixes in order to tame the treble response, that is the logical explanation that you failed to see in your modding, either that or did it because according to you "everyone" was doing it, which is a more laughable answer because you are a follower of the mass.

you can only lead a horse to water....




dmdm said:


> Ok, how do I get this mod. Do you have a link?



anyway, let us know how you like it.


----------



## Law87

JamieMcC said:


> *The achilles heel of the hd800 is it's brutally transparency which will shine a light on upstream inadequacies of other component in your chain.
> I would suspect the majority of those who complain about sibilance or lack of bass thin mids etc just haven't been fortunate to hear what the hd800 is capable of on a synergistic system.  Those who have know all to well its still a reference level headphone that will easily hold its own against newer cans costing significantly more.*
> 
> With the hd800 its all about the chain. But the SDR mod is easy and inexpensive to do only costing the equivalent to a cup of coffee if you feel its needed. The effect it has you could probably compared to dropping a couple of hundred dollars on a fancy aftermarket cable so for a couple $ its a real no brainer.




I can agree to this statement, however you can say that by investing in a different set of headset with your current configuration is a better cost alternative rather than selling everything you have for one headset that may or may not work for you.


----------



## gLer

Law87 said:


> The fact that you still cannot answer my question, and contradict yourself several time over proves to me that you absolutely oblivious to the matters. Fixing something that isnt broken to improve something that doesnt need to be improved is an oxymoron. The fact of the matter is, the treble spike is a problem, that is why you implement the fixes in order to tame the treble response, that is the logical explanation that you failed to see in your modding, either that or did it because according to you "everyone" was doing it, which is a more laughable answer because you are a follower of the mass.
> 
> you can only lead a horse to water....


i really shouldn’t bother replying, but I’ll just spell it out for you nice and slowly so you can understand it and then I’ll let it go:

1. I liked the HD800 on my system before the SDR mod. At no point did I say it was perfect. There is no such thing as ‘perfect’, just what you like and don’t like, and you can like or don’t like many different things about a headphone, and even very different headphones. It’s all ok. 

2. I was curious about the SDR mod and the effect it would have on the sound of the HD800 on my system. I wasn’t looking to ‘fix’ anything, just wanted to know what all the fuss was about. The mod is both simple and reversible. It’s also cheap. If you don’t like it, just pop the resonator out and you’re back to stock HD800. As it turns out, I like the sound with the mod. It’s a touch smoother. The change is subtle, but to my ears, positive. Again this doesn’t mean the stock HD800 needed fixing, I just happened to prefer the subtly different presentation. I know other users that prefer the stock sound. That’s also ok. 

3. I did not like the HD800S on my system when I auditioned it. I spent several days testing it with different types of music and it just didn’t have the balance of highs and lows I enjoyed with the original HD800, with and without the SDR. No need to go into detail, this is just my opinion. Many people prefer the Hd800S. That’s also ok.

4. The HD800 isn’t the be all and end all. Yes it’s the best headphone I’ve heard at some things. Other headphones (some that I own) do some things better, to my ears. The Auteur has better timbre and more lifelike vocals, for example. It also has deeper (though not necessarily better) bass. Nothing comes close to the HD800 - in its price range - when it comes to soundstage, resolution and clarity. 

All of the above is my option. All of the above is ok.


----------



## Law87

a 6db reduction at 6k = a touch smoother lol....what world are we living in. Not to mention a decrease in the whole spectrum at about 2-3db

https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...rench-diy-response-page-2#RcBdRqr45fT2wmyP.97

Tyler at InnerFidelity. Basically sums up what I have been saying, but I guess some people thought they are smarter than others that has been doing the job for some 15+ years as a headphone and audio equipment reviewers.


----------



## gLer

Law87 said:


> Tyler at InnerFidelity. Basically sums up what I have been saying,


Somewhere in America right now a silver haired ex-headphone reviewer is reading this thread and thinking: “Who the fudge is Tyler!?”


----------



## Law87

gLer said:


> Somewhere in America right now a silver haired ex-headphone reviewer is reading this thread and thinking: “Who the fudge is Tyler!?”




Tyll* 

see buddy you are good for something, good job.


----------



## gLer

Law87 said:


> Tyll*
> 
> see buddy you are good for something, good job.


Thanks, I know right!

By the way you may want to pick and choose which FR chart you use to make your point, because the ones you picked can’t decide what the stock HD800 sounds like, or what effect the SDR mod actually has**. I’d use the word contradictory but I think it’s been used too many times and rather incorrectly in this thread already.

**By the way have you actually heard an HD800 with the SDR mod? Judging by your comments and reliance on FR charts, I suspect not.


----------



## JamieMcC

Law87 said:


> I can agree to this statement, however you can say that by investing in a different set of headset with your current configuration is a better cost alternative rather than selling everything you have for one headset that may or may not work for you.



Its horses for course isn't it really and half the fun of the hobby is box swapping and finding what you like at which point you might decide to stop searching and spend some time with gear that suits personal tastes. I would assume the majority of the happy hd800 users have ended up where they are after trying out a considerable amount of other kit prior.

My own can list would be ignoring the lesser ones and not in any order Senn hd650, Senn hd600, Beyer T1, Beyer 770, Oppo PM3, ATH W1000x, Mezze 99 classic, AKG Q701 Quincy Jones Signature.  Meters Music OV-1, Hifiman 400 Hifiman HE-6, Audioquest Nighthawks,

For some time the T1 was my favourite headphone, personally I think its more fickle than the HD800 when it comes to matching with synergistic gear get it wrong and it would turn into a thin sounding wailing sibilant banshee of a can that would be hard to listen to.  On the other hand with the synergistic gear it could be sublime with pin point sound staging and beautiful mids.  fwiw I had the T1 and hd800 at the same time and keeping just the hd 800's was a easy decision.

The cans I still own and intend to hang on to for the foreseeable future are the Oppo PM3, HD800 and Hifiman HE-6 while I have tried the LCD 2 & 3 and liked them very much the HE-6 and HD-800 really have my needs covered and excel with my tastes in music. The Oppo PM3 has the bases covered when away from my main system. 

I would say that performance wise for sure both the HD 800 and HE-6 have their flaws but on the other hand what they excel at very few other cans can match at any price so they have become my own bench mark when considering what next  Empyrean, LCD4 or maybe Stax SR009 or maybe even some high end iem's but the diminishing return factor seems to be going sky high rapidly which makes the choice much harder for those of us who are financially challenged.


----------



## 340519

Well, I've read a ton of reviews on the 800s now, and for the most part, their detail and revealing nature is praised. I really have been searching for that veil to be pulled back from the music in an endgame can, so the 800s coupled with my Benchmark dac2 ought to be very aurally exciting.


----------



## Law87

gLer said:


> Thanks, I know right!
> 
> By the way you may want to pick and choose which FR chart you use to make your point, because the ones you picked can’t decide what the stock HD800 sounds like, or what effect the SDR mod actually has**. I’d use the word contradictory but I think it’s been used too many times and rather incorrectly in this thread already.
> 
> **By the way have you actually heard an HD800 with the SDR mod? Judging by your comments and reliance on FR charts, I suspect not.




and which chart is that?


----------



## Law87

dmdm said:


> Well, I've read a ton of reviews on the 800s now, and for the most part, their detail and revealing nature is praised. I really have been searching for that veil to be pulled back from the music in an endgame can, so the 800s coupled with my Benchmark dac2 ought to be very aurally exciting.




you already bought the Hd800 might as well try to listen to it, you might like it but fact is fact, the hd800 is picky and have treble issues along with other smaller things such as sibillance.

I believe even sennheiser admit this issue with the treble peaks.


----------



## Maxx134 (May 3, 2019)

comzee said:


> This is why most, in the know, go for hd800sdr over hd800s. You could say it's the best of both worlds.


This is a bit incorrect.
The SDR mod strives more for neutrality.
It is NOT similar to the 800S.
It is more similar to an 800 with less trebles

The 800S is having a decidedly increased lower spectrum, although not as "clean".

So, If you want the best of both worlds, (that being an 800S with the cleanness of the 800), you would install the Sennheiser foam mod, which I  posted as part of my overall modification, which I have listed in my sig..




gLer said:


> . The HD800 isn’t the be all and end all. Yes it’s the best headphone I’ve heard at some things. Other headphones (some that I own) do some things better, to my ears. The Auteur has better timbre and more lifelike vocals, for example. It also has deeper (though not necessarily better) bass. Nothing comes close to the HD800 - in its price range - when it comes to soundstage, resolution and clarity.
> 
> All of the above is my option. All of the above is ok


About the vocals, the midrange becomes better or more prominent on the higher impedance tube amps, and on speaker amps.

In both cases the HD800 is probably getting the juice it needs, because its impedance, at 600ohm is actually actually an average, so the demands vary with frequency.
Although theoretically, this shouldn't be a problem for an amp, in reality "suppy-n-demand" is not linear.

The Various response of an amps power supply, or "power-on-tap" reserves will make an amp sound different to the HD800.

The HD800S does seem to alleviate the situation with more mids, for those that prefer it.


----------



## 340519 (May 3, 2019)

Law87 said:


> you already bought the Hd800 might as well try to listen to it, you might like it but fact is fact, the hd800 is picky and have treble issues along with other smaller things such as sibillance.
> 
> I believe even sennheiser admit this issue with the treble peaks.


They are in transit my dude.

I will have the hd650s next to the 800s, so if I can't handle the honesty of the 800s in that particular album, I'll switch to the 650s.


----------



## 340519

Maxx134 said:


> This is a bit incorrect.
> The SDR mod strives more for neutrality.
> It is NOT similar to the 800S.
> It is more similar to an 800 with less trebles
> ...


I'm not remotely handy enough to attempt your mods. They look great and all, but I'd destroy the headphones.


----------



## Maxx134

dmdm said:


> I'm not remotely handy enough to attempt your mods. They look great and all, but I'd destroy the headphones.


I understand.
 that is why I only suggest the Sennheiser foam, if you are already capable of doing the SDR insert


----------



## nephilim32

Really great that the HD 800’s thread has revived nicely again. 

I feel that, since their inception 10 yrs ago, the 800’s still provide certain details in one’s music that no other headphone can achieve...yet. 

The 800’s are masters of width of a soundstage and dynamics. Have not heard better in those categories. They grab so much detail and are amazingly source dependent for easy listening. 

They are a bargain to buy, but the rest of your sound chain won’t be.


----------



## 340519

I've read on various sites that owners of the Benchmark dac/amp combos are very happy with the synergy with the 800s. I'll be trying both the dac1 and dac2 with the 800s, and also the JDS O2 and Element dac. It's going to be fun to experiment with all of this.


----------



## Law87

dmdm said:


> They are in transit my dude.
> 
> I will have the hd650s next to the 800s, so if I can't handle the honesty of the 800s in that particular album, I'll switch to the 650s.




what do you mean "honesty"? If anything the HD800 is more unforgiving than HD800s.


----------



## 340519

Law87 said:


> what do you mean "honesty"? If anything the HD800 is more unforgiving than HD800s.


Sorry I meant 800. I do not have the S version.


----------



## gLer

dmdm said:


> Sorry I meant 800. I do not have the S version.


Honesty is the perfect word for the HD800. Makes you realise just how poorly mastered some of your recordings are, and rewards you endlessly when something is well recorded. That’s why it’s probably best as a part of a 2-3 headphone collection. I have the ZMF Auteur which, while also fairly neutral and highly resolving, is gentler on poor recordings with its slightly added warmth and cohesiveness of sound. I enjoy both off a transparent solid state amp and NOS R2R dac that delivers all the detail and space I could want without becoming overanalytical or dry. It’s always a fine balance but once you find it, you’re set.


----------



## 340519

gLer said:


> Honesty is the perfect word for the HD800. Makes you realise just how poorly mastered some of your recordings are, and rewards you endlessly when something is well recorded. That’s why it’s probably best as a part of a 2-3 headphone collection. I have the ZMF Auteur which, while also fairly neutral and highly resolving, is gentler on poor recordings with its slightly added warmth and cohesiveness of sound. I enjoy both off a transparent solid state amp and NOS R2R dac that delivers all the detail and space I could want without becoming overanalytical or dry. It’s always a fine balance but once you find it, you’re set.


Awesome.
What tube amp would you all recommend for the 800?


----------



## gLer

dmdm said:


> Awesome.
> What tube amp would you all recommend for the 800?


Good question, I’m not really into tube amps but I’m sure others will chime in.


----------



## 340519 (May 4, 2019)

gLer said:


> Good question, I’m not really into tube amps but I’m sure others will chime in.


I have a tube amp i bought fromIdeal Innovations (great hand built amp like the mc275) in my kitchen system with a pair of PSBs I like, but with everyone  stating how 'honest these are, the warm distortion of a tube amp might be interesting. Regardless, I'm sure the Benchmark dac2 will sound pretty awesome and analytical.  I want to dissect all of Depeche Mode and NINs albums muhahahahahaha.


----------



## gLer

dmdm said:


> I have a tube amp i bought fromIdeal Innovations (great hand built amp like the mc275) in my kitchen system with a pair of PSBs I like, but with everyone  stating how 'honest these are, the warm distortion of a tube amp might be interesting. Regardless, I'm sure the Benchmark dac2 will sound pretty awesome and analytical.  I want to dissect all of Depeche Mode and NINs albums muhahahahahaha.


The most amazing thing for me is being able to ‘walk around’ a track with the HD800. Every sound, instrument and vocal has its own space. It’s quite a remarkable feat that few if any other headphones have been able to achieve. Sure makes it fun to pick out new parts of tracks I’ve heard hundreds of times before. And yet I don’t find them necessarily as ‘analytical’ as people claim because I can just lower them volume and let the music wash over me without having to dive into it. The HD800 on the right amp can be very musical as well.


----------



## 340519

gLer said:


> The most amazing thing for me is being able to ‘walk around’ a track with the HD800. Every sound, instrument and vocal has its own space. It’s quite a remarkable feat that few if any other headphones have been able to achieve. Sure makes it fun to pick out new parts of tracks I’ve heard hundreds of times before. And yet I don’t find them necessarily as ‘analytical’ as people claim because I can just lower them volume and let the music wash over me without having to dive into it. The HD800 on the right amp can be very musical as well.


That is what I was thinking as well. I'll get to hear all of the detail I'm yearning for, and I can just turn it down if the recording is screechy.


----------



## omniweltall

gLer said:


> The most amazing thing for me is being able to ‘walk around’ a track with the HD800. Every sound, instrument and vocal has its own space. It’s quite a remarkable feat that few if any other headphones have been able to achieve. Sure makes it fun to pick out new parts of tracks I’ve heard hundreds of times before. And yet I don’t find them necessarily as ‘analytical’ as people claim because I can just lower them volume and let the music wash over me without having to dive into it. The HD800 on the right amp can be very musical as well.


Just wanna add that dac play a big role too. Found out that I wasnt maximizing my amp due to my dac. It makes a lot of difference.


----------



## 340519

If I find the 6khz peak to be annoying,  I can just use eq software, as I've stated earlier, to smooth it out. Correct? No harm done done?


----------



## 340519

Another reason I picked the 800 up is that I bought them for 1k vs 2.5k CAD.  I thought after reading about them the minute differences between the two were not worth the 1.5k difference.


----------



## omniweltall

dmdm said:


> If I find the 6khz peak to be annoying,  I can just use eq software, as I've stated earlier, to smooth it out. Correct? No harm done done?


My experience with digital eq wasnt positive. I prefer analog eq. Or just find a matching gear that naturally tames the peak.


----------



## 340519 (May 4, 2019)

omniweltall said:


> My experience with digital eq wasnt positive. I prefer analog eq. Or just find a matching gear that naturally tames the peak.


Its funny, because the guy I bought them from didn't realize there was a peak and he said it didn't bother him at all.

Anyway, I have enough 'dark' headphones. Its time for some light.


----------



## gLer

omniweltall said:


> Just wanna add that dac play a big role too. Found out that I wasnt maximizing my amp due to my dac. It makes a lot of difference.


For sure, I have a thing for NOS R2R daps. A great match for the HD800, which can sound quite dry on an analytical day like a Sabre.


----------



## gLer

omniweltall said:


> My experience with digital eq wasnt positive. I prefer analog eq. Or just find a matching gear that naturally tames the peak.


Matching gear is first prize, but I find Sonarworks Reference to be superb, with zero distortion.


----------



## JaZZ (May 4, 2019)

dmdm said:


> If I find the 6khz peak to be annoying,  I can just use eq software, as I've stated earlier, to smooth it out. Correct? No harm done?


No harm done – if done carefully. It's even better than the Helmholtz resonators of the «S» or the SDR mod, which do the same as a kind of passive acoustic equalizer, just with less accuracy and effect.

If you want to go to the extreme (in terms of maximizing sound quality), you could reproduce this modification that I posted long ago, which unfortunately has been plagiarized («Anaxilus mod») and spoiled by recommending an inappropriate material (foam) instead of the original velvet. It serves for reducing inner reflections in the interest of transient accuracy, but also calls for a different equalizer curve. In fact it virtually eliminates the 6 kHz peak, but a low-frequency boost below 100 Hz is still highly recommended.

Moreover, if you're into equalizing, you also eliminate the need for the right synergy with a matching amp, which is problematic in that it favors coloring amplifiers. Actually there's no need for masking the HD 800's strengths if you know how to make them shine without unwanted side-effects.


----------



## 340519

JaZZ said:


> No harm done – if done carefully. It's even better than the Helmholtz resonators of the «S» or the SDR mod, which do the same as a kind of passive acoustic equalizer, just with less accuracy and effect.
> 
> If you want to go to the extreme (in terms of maximizing sound quality), you could reproduce this modification that I posted long ago, which unfortunately has been plagiarized («Anaxilus mod») and spoiled by recommending an inappropriate material (foam) instead of the original velvet. It serves for reducing inner reflections in the interest of transient accuracy, but also calls for a different equalizer curve. In fact it virtually eliminates the 6 kHz peak, but a low-frequency boost below 100 Hz is still highly recommended.
> 
> Moreover, if you're into equalizing, you also eliminate the need for the right synergy with a matching amp, which is problematic in that it favors coloring amplifiers. Actually there's no need for masking the HD 800's strengths if you know how to make them shine without unwanted side-effects.


I have an honest dac (great measurements) with an honest headphone. It should be interesting.


----------



## JaZZ

I hope you'll enjoy it – as I still do, after all these years. Otherwise (or anyway) there's still the damping modification – if you want maximum accuracy and minimal glare.


----------



## gLer

dmdm said:


> I have an honest dac (great measurements) with an honest headphone. It should be interesting.


Just be ready to discover how poorly so much modern modern music (and plenty of older music) is recorded! You’d never know it listening with inferior gear


----------



## 340519

gLer said:


> Just be ready to discover how poorly so much modern modern music (and plenty of older music) is recorded! You’d never know it listening with inferior gear


I hear you(no pun intended lololol).


----------



## 340519

JaZZ said:


> I hope you'll enjoy it – as I still do, after all these years. Otherwise (or anyway) there's still the damping modification – if you want maximum accuracy and minimal glare.


I'm all about the glitter and glare baby!


----------



## Roderick

I was listening to HD800 tonight and wondered how I never came across HD800 thread. No wonder since it is buried here, in the summit-fi category. By todays (price) standards this should be move to the headphones full-size category. Not saying HD800 is not high end... on contrary in fact.

I've been contemplating between lcd-3 and hd800. Part of my brain that is affected by money factor( More expensive, is better) tells me that I just don't appreciate lcd-3 enough. However, ofter months off comparing the two...for me it is evident that HD800 is far superior headphone. One can argue that lcd-3 has better timbre, and to that I agree...sort of. However the difference between the two in ability to portray a soundstage, virtual orchestra without a cloud between the headphones and my ears. Well, HD800 is  better and not just by a small margin. 

And people who say HD800 lacks bass... I bought used Gustard H10 which does exceptional job driving hd800. It is about on par to my $1500 spl phonitor so money can't be a object, not anymore.


----------



## omniweltall

Roderick said:


> And people who say HD800 lacks bass...


These people just dont know the hd800. I've seen people using crappy gears and complain abt the hd800, hd600/650.


----------



## 340519

Roderick said:


> I was listening to HD800 tonight and wondered how I never came across HD800 thread. No wonder since it is buried here, in the summit-fi category. By todays (price) standards this should be move to the headphones full-size category. Not saying HD800 is not high end... on contrary in fact.
> 
> I've been contemplating between lcd-3 and hd800. Part of my brain that is affected by money factor( More expensive, is better) tells me that I just don't appreciate lcd-3 enough. However, ofter months off comparing the two...for me it is evident that HD800 is far superior headphone. One can argue that lcd-3 has better timbre, and to that I agree...sort of. However the difference between the two in ability to portray a soundstage, virtual orchestra without a cloud between the headphones and my ears. Well, HD800 is  better and not just by a small margin.
> 
> And people who say HD800 lacks bass... I bought used Gustard H10 which does exceptional job driving hd800. It is about on par to my $1500 spl phonitor so money can't be a object, not anymore.


True. The owner of JDS Labs said the same thing to me. The O2 amp and ELdac should be the same sounding as my 2k Benchmark dac2.


----------



## JamieMcC

Roderick said:


> And people who say HD800 lacks bass... I bought used Gustard H10 which does exceptional job driving hd800. It is about on par to my $1500 spl phonitor so money can't be a object, not anymore.



I'm listening to my hd800 at the mo with a Pass Whammy headphone amp (no caps in signal path running a Burson V6 classic discreet op amp) I also have a hot rodded Bottlehead Mainline and for around the quarter of the price the Whammy gets very close.


----------



## JaZZ

dmdm said:


> I'm all about the glitter and glare baby!


...and for a moment I thought we have similar sonic ideals...


> I have an honest dac (great measurements) with an honest headphone. It should be interesting.


I do like glitter and glare if it matches a recording and is on it, but I hate it when a headphone does it on its own. The HD 800 with its factory setting has a tendency in this direction (therefore mod and EQ).


----------



## 340519

JaZZ said:


> ...and for a moment I thought we have similar sonic ideals...
> 
> I do like glitter and glare if it matches a recording and is on it, but I hate it when a headphone does it on its own. The HD 800 with its factory setting has a tendency in this direction (therefore mod and EQ).


I was just trying to be funny.


----------



## JaZZ

My bad – Central European sense of humor.


----------



## Rayzilla

gLer said:


> Just be ready to discover how poorly so much modern modern music (and plenty of older music) is recorded! You’d never know it listening with inferior gear


Unfortunately, most of the recordings of Depeche Mode will fall under that category. If not, please let me know because they were one of my favourites back in the day.


----------



## 340519

Rayzilla said:


> Unfortunately, most of the recordings of Depeche Mode will fall under that category. If not, please let me know because they were one of my favourites back in the day.


I'll have to disagree with you. The remasters sound divine and I have a very resolving 2 channel rig.


----------



## gLer

Rayzilla said:


> Unfortunately, most of the recordings of Depeche Mode will fall under that category. If not, please let me know because they were one of my favourites back in the day.


I actually quite like DM on the HD800 on my system. But they really shine on the Auteur.


----------



## gLer

dmdm said:


> I'll have to disagree with you. The remasters sound divine and I have a very resolving 2 channel rig.


Yes I meant the remasters. I have the DSD collection (also converted to high-res flac).


----------



## nephilim32

^ Original sound recordings for DM by far on the 800’s. Remasters are way to cold, brittle and lack proper bass. DSD or the 2008 remasters don’t hold a candle to the original 80’s cd releases and the DNR presence is awesome. 

Sorry. Just my opinion here, but with a calculated and analytical headphone like the 800’s the less compression on music sources the merrier.


----------



## Skullophile

Other companies must love it how the 800 sounds better (relatively) than their $3000 offerings these days... side note, chi-fi is the way to go for my budget friendly ass


----------



## Skullophile

Chi-fi probably still has a few years until they have a reference like release like the 800 but fun is their thing. Chi-fi explores crazy sound signatures un-believeable to anyone in the west. The downside is lay of them sound like crap but they’re cheap as crap.


----------



## 340519

gLer said:


> Yes I meant the remasters. I have the DSD collection (also converted to high-res flac).


Yes, I have both.


----------



## 340519

Skullophile said:


> Other companies must love it how the 800 sounds better (relatively) than their $3000 offerings these days... side note, chi-fi is the way to go for my budget friendly ass


I'm curious, what chifi do you recommend?


----------



## 340519

nephilim32 said:


> ^ Original sound recordings for DM by far on the 800’s. Remasters are way to cold, brittle and lack proper bass. DSD or the 2008 remasters don’t hold a candle to the original 80’s cd releases and the DNR presence is awesome.
> 
> Sorry. Just my opinion here, but with a calculated and analytical headphone like the 800’s the less compression on music sources the merrier.


You are getting me excited for these. I can't wait for them to show up.


----------



## 340519

dmdm said:


> You are getting me excited for these. I can't wait for them to show up.


I am sooooo ready for analytical.

Ooops somehow quoted myself there.


----------



## Nik74

A Broken Frame and Black Celebration sound stunning through 800(S) as does Construction Time Again. I listen to the Qobuz versions , not clear if they are remasters or not though.


----------



## Nik74

While we re on DM through the 800s I love the b-side of Meaning of Love, Oberkorn(development mix), I love how the sense of space and air is presented through the 800s, it's a caverous soundfield


----------



## 340519

Guys, you're preaching to the converted (devotee for any of you from the songs of faith and devotion era). DM (see my name here on the forum) has been my favorite band since I first heard them 35 years ago, I have hundreds of versions of the albums, remixes, etc, and have gone to every concert tour since 1986 when I was 10. I even have a custom black sticker I had made on my black car - very discrete. I have built my hi end systems since I got into audio around DM's sound.  You could say I'm a fan.


----------



## 340519

Great review:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/brilliant-sennheiser-hd-800-page-2


----------



## 340519

And this one:
https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/sennheiser-hd-800-sound-quality-and-verdict-page-3


----------



## 340519

The cans are coming from BC and I live in Ontario. I paid for expedited shipping but they're still not showing up until the 13th. Sheesh.


----------



## paradoxper

Skullophile said:


> Other companies must love it how the 800 sounds better (relatively) than their $3000 offerings these days... side note, chi-fi is the way to go for my budget friendly ass



FOTM never dies!


----------



## 340519

I even have the SACD of 101!


----------



## nephilim32

dmdm said:


> You are getting me excited for these. I can't wait for them to show up.



Absolutely. Did you get the originals off cd discogs or amazon? Anyhow. You won’t be sorry. Lots of DNR. 



Nik74 said:


> A Broken Frame and Black Celebration sound stunning through 800(S) as does Construction Time Again. I listen to the Qobuz versions , not clear if they are remasters or not though.


They are. Sadly. Grab originals. Trust me.  the 800’s demand it. 



Nik74 said:


> While we re on DM through the 800s I love the b-side of Meaning of Love, Oberkorn(development mix), I love how the sense of space and air is presented through the 800s, it's a caverous soundfield



Yeah. You got it. 
For me I love the intro to ‘People are People.’ 101 is a good recording but far from perfect. The vocals have a bit of treble spice and it is of course not due to the 800’s 6-8k peak. 
Dynamics and The capturing of the crowd is amazing. Love the atmosphere of ‘Never let me down.’ 
Almost 90,000 people attended that concert!


----------



## 340519 (May 5, 2019)

nephilim32 said:


> Absolutely. Did you get the originals off cd discogs or amazon? Anyhow. You won’t be sorry. Lots of DNR.
> 
> 
> They are. Sadly. Grab originals. Trust me.  the 800’s demand it.
> ...


I have the originals since I bought them when they first came out.


----------



## nephilim32

dmdm said:


> I have the originals since I bought them when they first came out.



Just remember to keep them and never sell them. Lol. 
I have all originals as well as a few 5.1 mixes that came out in 2006. DM are one of my most treasured bands.


----------



## 340519

nephilim32 said:


> Just remember to keep them and never sell them. Lol.
> I have all originals as well as a few 5.1 mixes that came out in 2006. DM are one of my most treasured bands.


Yes, right, the 5.1s. I have those too. For some reason they have been, and remain, my favorite band. I can't seem to shake the disease. Much to my wife's chagrin.


----------



## 340519

The 800 shows up today finally. I'm stoked.


----------



## omniweltall

dmdm said:


> The 800 shows up today finally. I'm stoked.


Enjoy mate.


----------



## 340519

My wife just picked them up at the post  office. I'll let you guys know what I think after I get some listening done with them.


----------



## 340519 (May 9, 2019)

Actually, I might listen to some Diana Krall first. When I first heard the 800 S at Planet of Sound with Diana I was immediately smitten with them.


----------



## 340519

I'm going to use sennheiser's captune app eq to tame the 6khz peak if necessary. Tidal works through it so I'm good.


----------



## 340519 (May 9, 2019)

Wow, they are stunning. I have no idea how people can review them as harsh. They sound absolutely beautiful with the Benchmark Dac1.  Wow...

Enjoy the Silence sounds absolutely glorious.

The 800 are officially my favourite headphone.


----------



## Nik74

Waiting for the Night is a revelation from these as well.
I m excited for you and all the re-discovery of your music with the 800s


----------



## eeagle

Nik74 said:


> Waiting for the Night is a revelation from these as well.
> I m excited for you and all the re-discovery of your music with the 800s


Nice recommentation!


----------



## 340519

Nik74 said:


> Waiting for the Night is a revelation from these as well.
> I m excited for you and all the re-discovery of your music with the 800s


It truly is a revelation. Barrel of a gun was so present. Amazing. The loop closes by how to destroy angels: stunning.

I realized today just how good the Benchmark is, and it sounds fantastic with the 800s.


----------



## protoss (May 9, 2019)

@dmdm

Welcome to the club! You have one of the greatest headphones ever made. Basically, you dont need to ever upgrade. Unless Senny releases their next HD800 successor. *The HD900* or something.

We all waiting for your full review


----------



## 340519 (May 9, 2019)

I'm a/b ing between the 650s and the 800s because the dac2 has two headphone outputs side by side, so they're relatively level matched. The 800 is so much more clear, open and delineated. The 650 sounds convoluted and veiled next to it. This is with NIN's Pretty Hate. Wowsa.
This is me throwing the 650s out.


----------



## 340519 (May 9, 2019)

I'd upload a picture if I knew how. Can someone tell me how to upload a photo from my tablet to the forum?

The new Vampire Weekend album sounds outstanding via Tidal on these things.

The 6khz peak does not bother me whatsoever.


----------



## 340519

I just absolutely love it when you can rediscover your music!


----------



## 340519

I want to say thanks to all of you guys, because without reading this thread I would not have bought these marvelous cans.


----------



## protoss

@dmdm 

You will love the HD800 so much you will color them!


----------



## 340519

protoss said:


> @dmdm
> 
> You will love the HD800 so much you will color them!


Lol awesome.
How did you upload the photo? I'd like to post one.


----------



## protoss (May 9, 2019)

dmdm said:


> How did you upload the photo? I'd like to post one.



Beside "*post reply*" there should be another button call "*upload a file*".
click it, find a picture and click "*open*" and press "*full image*" and click* post reply again*


----------



## 340519

Nevermind, got it.


----------



## protoss

@dmdm 

Later while relaxing you should read on this article.  http://www.headphoneer.com/hd800-amplifier-review/

No other article comes close to help a HD800 owner to get a sense of stuff.


----------



## Law87

dmdm said:


> I'd upload a picture if I knew how. Can someone tell me how to upload a photo from my tablet to the forum?
> 
> The new Vampire Weekend album sounds outstanding via Tidal on these things.
> 
> The 6khz peak does not bother me whatsoever.




Congrats on your new headset...perhaps you might like the Focal Utopia in the future.


----------



## Law87

dmdm said:


> Nevermind, got it.




What is that from the right? is that a power cable?


----------



## 340519

Law87 said:


> What is that from the right? is that a power cable?


I have some Kimber Kable and Shunyata power cables coming out of a Richard Grey power station ( I have 7 Richard Grey units like that).


----------



## 340519




----------



## 340519

Law87 said:


> Congrats on your new headset...perhaps you might like the Focal Utopia in the future.


Oh you rascal! Don't get me going into upgrade-itis!


----------



## 340519

I don't know how people say these aren't 'fun' or are fatiguing. I have a no nonsense amp that measures well and I fell asleep last night listening to the 800.  All those reviews that made me apprehensive I'm glad were wrong.


----------



## gLer

dmdm said:


> I don't know how people say these aren't 'fun' or are fatiguing. I have a no nonsense amp that measures well and I fell asleep last night listening to the 800.  All those reviews that made me apprehensive I'm glad were wrong.


Just goes to show that the only things you can truly trust are your own ears and own gears  I held out on the HD800 for the same reasons as you, and when I finally got them the only thing I regretted was all that wasted time spent looking for the endgame when it was here all along...


----------



## 340519

gLer said:


> Just goes to show that the only things you can truly trust are your own ears and own gears  I held out on the HD800 for the same reasons as you, and when I finally got them the only thing I regretted was all that wasted time spent looking for the endgame when it was here all along...


Ive told my co-workers this morning these cans are like the heavens opened and I can hear the choir of angels. I am VERY satisfied. I would gladly pay 1k for these again.


----------



## 340519 (May 10, 2019)

The sundaras are still the best for gaming. The bullets in BFV frighten me through the sundaras (I actually scream sometimes when I'm sniped out of nowhere from the bullet shot ringing out).


----------



## gLer

dmdm said:


> Ive told my co-workers this morning these cans are like the heavens opened and I can hear the choir of angels. I am VERY satisfied. I would gladly pay 1k for these again.


Like I’ve said before, a good used pair of 800/S is the biggest bargain in high-end head-fi right now, the 800 more than the 800S (800+SDR+new pads+refurb plastic to new cost me about $700), but an 800S at ~$1k is still excellent! Think of what else you can get for that money - absolutely nothing in this league.


----------



## FiGuY1017

Here’s a suggestion, because I’ve found it useful in preventing paint chipping. I lay my 800’s on a hand towel when I put them down for a moment, it really keeps them in tip top shape


----------



## omniweltall

gLer said:


> Just goes to show that the only things you can truly trust are your own ears and own gears  I held out on the HD800 for the same reasons as you, and when I finally got them the only thing I regretted was all that wasted time spent looking for the endgame when it was here all along...


So true. This was exactly my experience as well. 

I believe building your system around your headphone instead of the other way around. A great compatible system would make the hd800 a deadly summit-fi can.


----------



## omniweltall

dmdm said:


> The sundaras are still the best for gaming. The bullets frighten me through the sundaras (I actually scream sometimes when I'm sniped out of nowhere from the bullet shot ringing out).


Try the TH900, mate. And you'll kiss the sundara bye-bye.


----------



## gLer

FiGuY1017 said:


> Here’s a suggestion, because I’ve found it useful in preventing paint chipping. I lay my 800’s on a hand towel when I put them down for a moment, it really keeps them in tip top shape


Agreed. I keep them in their box next to the desk, or on the desk on a large gel gaming pad (I don’t game but the pad is useful). The way some people treat their headphones - putting them down on hard surfaces or hanging them up on unsuitable stands - is just atrocious. Why pay so much money for something and then mistreat it?


----------



## 340519

gLer said:


> Like I’ve said before, a good used pair of 800/S is the biggest bargain in high-end head-fi right now, the 800 more than the 800S (800+SDR+new pads+refurb plastic to new cost me about $700), but an 800S at ~$1k is still excellent! Think of what else you can get for that money - absolutely nothing in this league.


I don't think I would get the S version now, I'm very happy with the non S version. And like I said, I listened to the S and it was great, but I don't recall that much difference to justify the cash outlay.


----------



## 340519

omniweltall said:


> Try the TH900, mate. And you'll kiss the sundara bye-bye.


They do look cool, but if I was to get another set of cans I would get something from audeze next.


----------



## gLer

dmdm said:


> I don't think I would get the S version now, I'm very happy with the non S version. And like I said, I listened to the S and it was great, but I don't recall that much difference to justify the cash outlay.


Apologies I thought you got the S. I agree, I heard the S on my system and actually didn’t like it anywhere near as much as the 800 I finally bought. Not sure what it was - just didn’t gel with me. I do prefer my 800 with the SDR mod but I liked it before the mod as well. If you’re feeling adventurous it’s an easy and easily reversible mod to make.


----------



## 340519

gLer said:


> Apologies I thought you got the S. I agree, I heard the S on my system and actually didn’t like it anywhere near as much as the 800 I finally bought. Not sure what it was - just didn’t gel with me. I do prefer my 800 with the SDR mod but I liked it before the mod as well. If you’re feeling adventurous it’s an easy and easily reversible mod to make.


I'm very happy with the way it sounds stock. Very transparent.  I spent my whole adult life in search of the perfect speaker/source combo, and I found that in the golden ear/bryston/benchmark combo. I feel I've found that same beauty in the 800/benchmark combo, so I'm good.


----------



## J Mirra

dmdm said:


> I'm very happy with the way it sounds stock. Very transparent.  I spent my whole adult life in search of the perfect speaker/source combo, and I found that in the golden ear/bryston/benchmark combo. I feel I've found that same beauty in the 800/benchmark combo, so I'm good.


Happy to see your excitement to own them turn to enjoyment. I have only owned mine a few months now and I can not prize them off my head.


----------



## 340519 (May 11, 2019)

I've been listening to a lot of Megadeth tonight while playing Days Gone, and the 800 is great for heavy metal as well.

And also My Chemical Romance

And my favorite genre jazz. John Coltrane Blue Train sounds marvelous.

Oh, and Recoil. Jezebel never sounded so evil.


----------



## Deftone

dmdm said:


> I don't know how people say these aren't 'fun' or are fatiguing. I have a no nonsense amp that measures well and I fell asleep last night listening to the 800.  All those reviews that made me apprehensive I'm glad were wrong.


 
Lucky man, I'm a side sleeper so unless I put my head on a doughnut then I dont think it's gonna work out well for me lol


----------



## 340519

After living with these for a few days I can say these are the best cans I've ever heard. They're just so clean and analytical. I guess that is my kind of sound. I mean my other cans sound great too, but the 800 is something truly special.


----------



## 340519

Deftone said:


> Lucky man, I'm a side sleeper so unless I put my head on a doughnut then I dont think it's gonna work out well for me lol


Lol doughnut


----------



## 340519 (May 12, 2019)

My cottage is now under water, but I was able to save my audio gear there. Thank goodness for that. Well, except for that nht sub in the picture. Ottawa valley flood.


----------



## J Mirra

Oh **** not good. Hope you have killed the power, you have things still plugged in.


----------



## 340519

J Mirra said:


> Oh **** not good. Hope you have killed the power, you have things still plugged in.


Ontario hydro killed it 2 weeks ago. All good.


----------



## protoss

dmdm said:


> My cottage is now under water,



Sell that cottage and get the HE-1


----------



## 340519

protoss said:


> Sell that cottage and get the HE-1


Lol if I could sell it. No one will buy it now. Well maybe 50% off and that's not happening.


----------



## Deftone

dmdm said:


> My cottage is now under water, but I was able to save my audio gear there. Thank goodness for that. Well, except for that nht sub in the picture. Ottawa valley flood.



Gives a new meaning to that sign on your wall that says "gone to the beach"


----------



## Fegefeuer

omniweltall said:


> Try the TH900, mate. And you'll kiss the sundara bye-bye.



Agree. Aside from that I'm kinda amazed how the HD800 and TH-900 still cannot be beat for gaming/movies. The only other headphone which I would place next to them would be the Susvara because it is not soft as most of today's Hifiman, has great width, depth and height, the details, natural tonality etc etc.. However 6k? No way. 

A few days ago I finished The Last of US on the PS4 (yeah, years late) and it was a fantastic experience. Both the game itself and how the audio part was presented. Most Sony titles do it right. I switched between the HD800 and the TH-900 for each session.
The sounds of those guns were truly menacing and having used the rifle with pretty high accuracy (scarcity of ammo makes you hold onto the "every bullet counts" philosophy very dearly) every one of its shots made me feel both powerful and also kinda wary. 

Overall I'd give the nod to the HD800 because it doesn't really concede much, shines especially on openness, air, soundstage, attack and still goes menacingly low while maintaing a very tight and hardhitting midbass. TH-900 wins for subbass, immediacy and "wow factor". Yeah the latter doesn't really say much, it simply has its own charme with its thunderous, clean, clear presentation. If you own one you know what I mean.


----------



## protoss

@Fegefeuer 
Damn right you are late to play that masterpiece. Now try to beat it on grounded mode  I did. 

Pretty much by 2020 is last of us 2.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I have to say I slightly regretted playing on normal because I only died out of sheer arrogance and it was never because I had a hard time succeeding or surviving. Overestimated the challenge. TLOU was still a very exciting journey and the technical limitations of the PS3 era compared to today's didn't bother me at all. 

Soundwise it's one of the rare games that really shine on great headphones and speakers. I have a few titles on my queue, if TLOU2 will indeed arrive in 2020 and not 2019 then I might find time for the "grounded mode". Until then I have SOTC, TLG, Days Gone, Sekiro and Until Dawn to play. Probably Sekiro next. Not sure yet.


----------



## 340519 (May 13, 2019)

protoss said:


> @Fegefeuer
> Damn right you are late to play that masterpiece. Now try to beat it on grounded mode  I did.
> 
> Pretty much by 2020 is last of us 2.


Yeah, TLOU was amazing, though I played it years ago. Days Gone I'm playing now and it has a similar vibe. I have disagree about the 800s and games because my sundaras can't be beat for shear dynamics in BFV. I'm going to keep them solely for gaming now. I keep my sony platinums around for when I need a mic.


----------



## 340519 (May 13, 2019)

Fegefeuer said:


> I have to say I slightly regretted playing on normal because I only died out of sheer arrogance and it was never because I had a hard time succeeding or surviving. Overestimated the challenge. TLOU was still a very exciting journey and the technical limitations of the PS3 era compared to today's didn't bother me at all.
> 
> Soundwise it's one of the rare games that really shine on great headphones and speakers. I have a few titles on my queue, if TLOU2 will indeed arrive in 2020 and not 2019 then I might find time for the "grounded mode". Until then I have SOTC, TLG, Days Gone, Sekiro and Until Dawn to play. Probably Sekiro next. Not sure yet.


I hear you, I played on hard and normal on two different play throughs.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Might be a stupid question because you have plenty of good gear in your signature, but are you driving the HD 800 from the O2 amp? If yes, I suggest loaning a different amp or bringing your HD 800 to a meet.

The HD800 can be very muscular, dynamic, hardhitting and overall "ballsy". The low end will not have the low end heft of an Audeze or the rumble of the TH-900 but it will still hit hard and have "startling" dynamics/transients.


----------



## 340519 (May 13, 2019)

Fegefeuer said:


> Might be a stupid question because you have plenty of good gear in your signature, but are you driving the HD 800 from the O2 amp? If yes, I suggest loaning a different amp or bringing your HD 800 to a meet.
> 
> The HD800 can be very muscular, dynamic, hardhitting and overall "ballsy". The low end will not have the low end heft of an Audeze or the rumble of the TH-900 but it will still hit hard and have "startling" dynamics/transients.


I'm using the Benchmark dac 1 hdr or a dac 2 D, depending on whether I'm in my bedroom or home theatre. They are extraordinary products. I'm all good. I'm very happy with the way benchmark and the 800 sound together. Stephanie Sykes hits VERY hard. That's all the bass I need.

I'll probably buy a benchmark dac 4, when it's released,  and an hpa4, which looks awesome.

I use the O2 with my Nightowls which sounds downright luxurious.


----------



## omniweltall (May 13, 2019)

Fegefeuer said:


> However 6k? No way.


There you go.


Fegefeuer said:


> A few days ago I finished The Last of US on the PS4 (yeah, years late) and it was a fantastic experience.


One of the best game ever. Will invoke emotions. Better late than never, mate.


Fegefeuer said:


> Overall I'd give the nod to the HD800 because it doesn't really concede much, shines especially on openness, air, soundstage, attack and still goes menacingly low while maintaing a very tight and hardhitting midbass. TH-900 wins for subbass, immediacy and "wow factor". Yeah the latter doesn't really say much, it simply has its own charme with its thunderous, clean, clear presentation


Hd800 does feel more airy and open. Stage is larger. Bass is also a killer on the right chain. Detailed and slams too. 

But for movies/gaming, TH900 is the best. It has better imaging and pinpoint location than HD800.


----------



## 340519

I spent 3 hours last night listening to the 800 with the dac1 and it was magical. They really are spectacular headphones.


----------



## omniweltall

dmdm said:


> I spent 3 hours last night listening to the 800 with the dac1 and it was magical. They really are spectacular headphones.


Feel that tightness and accuracy


----------



## protoss

dmdm said:


> I spent 3 hours last night listening to the 800 with the dac1



Are you using the Benchmark Dac 1 headphone amp jack to drive the HD800?


----------



## 340519 (May 14, 2019)

protoss said:


> Are you using the Benchmark Dac 1 headphone amp jack to drive the HD800?


Yes, and before you say anything, I contacted rory rall at benchmark yesterday and he said both the dac1 and dac2 with their headphone jack is more than enough to drive the 800.

And they must work well together because I have not heard better outside of my golden ears. The dynamics, soundstage, bass are all magnificent. Duel of the Fates really wowed me with the bass.


----------



## 340519

Here is an excerpt from the email exchange:

Both the dac1 and dac2 are adequate to power the 800s properly correct?
Thanks.

Yes, they are.

Rory Rall

Sales Mgr.

Benchmark Media Systems, Inc.

203 E. Hampton Place, Ste 2

Syracuse, NY 13206

http://www.benchmarkmedia.com

800-262-4675

fax 315-437-8119


----------



## protoss

dmdm said:


> Yes, and before you say anything, I contacted rory rall at benchmark yesterday and he said both the dac1 and dac2 with their headphone jack is more than enough to drive the 800.



Actually i wasnt doubting the power limits. I am thinking how it sounds? Is it warm, bright, etch...

Now i am wondering how the Dac 3 will sound?


----------



## 340519

protoss said:


> Actually i wasnt doubting the power limits. I am thinking how it sounds? Is it warm, bright, etch...
> 
> Now i am wondering how the Dac 3 will sound?



I believe the sound is just clean and uncolored. There is nothing added to my ears.
Here is what Rory said about the combo and its honesty:

"I think that it may be because the Benchmark dacs are so transparent and the 800’s as well. Too much of a good thing?"

I responded that is not too much of a good thing for me. I love the accuracy.


----------



## protoss

dmdm said:


> I believe the sound is just clean and uncolored. There is nothing added to my ears.
> Here is what Rory said about the combo and its honesty:
> 
> "I think that it may be because the Benchmark dacs are so transparent and the 800’s as well. Too much of a good thing?"
> ...



So the Dac1 is not bright for the HD800? Theres no glare and such?


----------



## 340519 (May 14, 2019)

protoss said:


> Actually i wasnt doubting the power limits. I am thinking how it sounds? Is it warm, bright, etch...
> 
> Now i am wondering how the Dac 3 will sound?


I just requested a price quote from pcaudio.ca about the cost of the dac2 B and hpa4. The guy wants me to call him.


----------



## protoss

dmdm said:


> I just requested a price quote from pcaudio.ca about the cost of the dac2 B and ps4. The guy wants me to call him.



Price quote the Dac 3 too


----------



## 340519 (May 14, 2019)

protoss said:


> So the Dac1 is not bright for the HD800? Theres no glare and such?


Not that I can tell. I mean even champagne supernova and wonder wall sounded the best I've ever heard! The only track last night that sounded too bright was the pixies b side wave of mutilation surf mix, and I blame a bad recording.

DMs enjoy the silence, which I've been listening to since it came out, sounds incredible.  There's so much detail.

I don't think the combo is bright at all.


----------



## 340519

protoss said:


> Price quote the Dac 3 too


Lol meant hpa4.


----------



## 340519

protoss said:


> Price quote the Dac 3 too


And the price will be in CAD.  I don't know if you live in Canada.


----------



## protoss

dmdm said:


> And the price will be in CAD.  I don't know if you live in Canada.



Its alright name the price


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I forgot about Benchmark, lol


----------



## 340519

protoss said:


> Its alright name the price


I just got off the phone with the guy.
7k CAD for both with tax.
Maybe I liquidate my 2 channel, buy the dac3, hpa4, and another pair of cans. Maybe the audeze lcd4.


----------



## 340519

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I forgot about Benchmark, lol


I've been a fan for 10 years. I really like their gear.


----------



## 340519 (May 14, 2019)

protoss said:


> So the Dac1 is not bright for the HD800? Theres no glare and such?


I just found this review of the benchmark dac1 with the 800 and 650s. Very cool.

*Great news for headphone lovers*

I’m not sure what I like better about the DAC-1 HDR, the DAC, or the headphone amplifier. Using the new Sennheiser HD-800’s as well as my HD650’s with Stefan Audio Art Cables and AKG 701’s with ALO Audio cabling, I always had a great time listening to my headphones. The DAC-1 HDR spent a fair amount of time in my bedroom system with the Wadia 170i and an iPod full of uncompressed files.

The stereo image provided by the DAC-1 was very wide and the bass performance with the HD650’s and HD800’s was very powerful. The DAC-1 also did a great job at driving the AKG 701’s, which is notoriously tough to drive. If you are primarily a headphone user that would like to build a system around one box (two if you have a turntable) the DAC-1 HDR will be a perfect match for the space limited audiophile that still wants great sound.

http://www.tonepublications.com/review/3148/

And coming from this guy it's pretty high praise. I love my O2 amp:

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/03/benchmark-dac1-pre.html


----------



## RCBinTN

gLer said:


> Agreed. I keep them in their box next to the desk, or on the desk on a large gel gaming pad (I don’t game but the pad is useful). The way some people treat their headphones - putting them down on hard surfaces or hanging them up on unsuitable stands - is just atrocious. Why pay so much money for something and then mistreat it?



Everybody with high-end HPs need this kind of accessory.
Zero stress on the cans, adjustable height to remove stress from the cables (also very important).

https://wooaudio.com/accessories/hps


----------



## RCBinTN

dmdm said:


> I've been listening to a lot of Megadeth tonight while playing Days Gone, and the 800 is great for heavy metal as well.
> 
> And also My Chemical Romance
> 
> ...



Try 'em with some Opeth, especially this album. Kicks ass!


----------



## 340519 (May 14, 2019)

RCBinTN said:


> Try 'em with some Opeth, especially this album. Kicks ass!


Oooooh that looks fun!

I just added them on tidal. I'll check them out tonight with some boneshaker, my favourite beer.


----------



## 340519

Do you all like the Meze 99s? Or the massdrop variant?


----------



## Deftone (May 14, 2019)

RCBinTN said:


> Try 'em with some Opeth, especially this album. Kicks ass!



The Sorceress tracks sound so much better on this live album, the studio album gets little playback time because i think its so muddy.

This is my favourite live record from Opeth (Lamentations: live at shepherds bush empire 2003)
Has good dynamic range too.


----------



## 340519

Deftone said:


> The Sorceress tracks sound so much better on this live album, the studio album gets little playback time because i think its so muddy.
> 
> This is my favourite live record from Opeth (Lamentations: live at shepherds bush empire 2003)
> Has good dynamic range too.


Unfortunately tidal doesn't have that album.


----------



## Deftone

dmdm said:


> Unfortunately tidal doesn't have that album.



oh right, i dont use streaming services i still buy CDs. I bet you could get a hint of the sound quality if theres some decent videos on youtube.


----------



## 340519 (May 16, 2019)

I fell asleep with the 800s on again last night listening to enigma. Great cans.

Edit: I have never heard enigma's first album sound that clear. Amazing.


----------



## pietcux

I just checked the German Sennheiser page. The HD800 is no longer available. Only spareparts. They just say thst the HD800S is an improved version. Maybe this is related to Axel Grell being no longer with the company?


----------



## FiGuY1017

For my ears the S is not “improved”, but I’m the minority who loves my 800 unmodded and believes that peak may also be what makes the 800 special.


----------



## RCBinTN

FiGuY1017 said:


> For my ears the S is not “improved”, but I’m the minority who loves my 800 unmodded and believes that peak may also be what makes the 800 special.



I agree 100%. Neither the HD800S nor the HD820 are an improvement over the original HD800, IMO, and I've heard 'em both.
Mine are also unmodded, although I do use a bit of digital EQ around 6kHz


----------



## 340519

FiGuY1017 said:


> For my ears the S is not “improved”, but I’m the minority who loves my 800 unmodded and believes that peak may also be what makes the 800 special.


I'm with you. I've listened to both and one is not better than the other, just different.


----------



## 340519 (May 16, 2019)

RCBinTN said:


> I agree 100%. Neither the HD800S nor the HD820 are an improvement over the original HD800, IMO, and I've heard 'em both.
> Mine are also unmodded, although I do use a bit of digital EQ around 6kHz


I suppose I'm not sensitive to the 6khz peak. I might try some eq at some point but I  think they sound great stock.


----------



## pietcux

FiGuY1017 said:


> For my ears the S is not “improved”, but I’m the minority who loves my 800 unmodded and believes that peak may also be what makes the 800 special.


I have it SuperDupont nodded. You still have all that clarity, but a little less where needed.


----------



## Fegefeuer

What's wrong with Sennheiser. First the HD650, now this. 

I guess next we'll get a HD600S/610S or whatever and then we can kiss the HD600 goodbye. They are definitely not making smart choices with these legends.


----------



## 340519 (May 16, 2019)

I have the sennheiser captune app that interfaces with tidal.  I haven't used it yet but it looks like good eq software. Maybe I'll mess around with the 5khz region and see what happens.


----------



## RCBinTN

dmdm said:


> I suppose I'm not sensitive to the 6khz peak. I might try some eq at some point but I  think they sound great stock.



I move the EQ around based on the music.
The most I ever use is -2.0dB at 6kHz, but for acoustic guitar or piano music I leave the curve pretty flat.

The cool thing about software EQ is it's easy to adjust on the fly.
I hope that Schiit Audio launches the balanced Loki max so I can do the EQ on the analogue side instead of the digital side


----------



## 340519

I enjoyed listening to the 800S, but I didn't say wow these are so much better than the 800. Actually, I don't remember a difference.


----------



## FiGuY1017

I’ve tried the sdr, and he did a great thing for many people who otherwise didn’t like the 800, I was just a outlier who prefers it untouched, a lot of that is probably system synergy though.


----------



## Fegefeuer

dmdm said:


> I enjoyed listening to the 800S, but I didn't say wow these are so much better than the 800. Actually, I don't remember a difference.



hmmm...

The difference should be a bit obvious though since the prime difference is the Helmholtz resonator of the HD800S which helps reduce the 6khz peak noticably compared to the stock HD800. In fact it does reduce the peak even better than the SDR mod but no way does it justify the several hundred dollars expensive upgrade path. When you already have a HD800 and you consider upgrading to a (even new) HD800S that decision could be considered downright foolish unless you can trade 1:1 and you can live with the overall sonic differences.

The SDR mod by Sorrodje is only 20 bucks and the installation only requires a bit of patience and care. Even then there's of course nothing wrong with using a stock HD800. To quite a few people the peak is part of the excitement factor.


----------



## pietcux




----------



## 340519 (May 16, 2019)

Fegefeuer said:


> hmmm...
> 
> The difference should be a bit obvious though since the prime difference is the Helmholtz resonator of the HD800S which helps reduce the 6khz peak noticably compared to the stock HD800. In fact it does reduce the peak even better than the SDR mod but no way does it justify the several hundred dollars expensive upgrade path. When you already have a HD800 and you consider upgrading to a (even new) HD800S that decision could be considered downright foolish unless you can trade 1:1 and you can live with the overall sonic differences.
> 
> The SDR mod by Sorrodje is only 20 bucks and the installation only requires a bit of patience and care. Even then there's of course nothing wrong with using a stock HD800. To quite a few people the peak is part of the excitement factor.


Well I suppose I'm in the minority that like the 6khz peak. It's like listening to my golden ear triton 1s, they have such clarity. It's what I've been searching for. Actually, I have always found my focal electras too bright, so they pull home theatre duty.
Anyway, I'll try out the eq for fun. Oooh I'll boost the bass!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Was willsch uns mit dem Bild sage, pietcux?


----------



## pietcux

I love my HD800. That's all.


----------



## 340519

pietcux said:


> I love my HD800. That's all.


Good stuff.


----------



## 340519

I'm curious about some of the cables mentioned that alter the sonic signature of the 800. Do you all have any that you like?


----------



## bearFNF

dmdm said:


> I fell asleep with the 800s on again last night listening to enigma. Great cans.
> 
> Edit: I have never heard enigma's first album sound that clear. Amazing.


You got me started on an enigma marathon at work today.  Listening to the Platinum Collection.  :


----------



## 340519

bearFNF said:


> You got me started on an enigma marathon at work today.  Listening to the Platinum Collection.  :


Awesome!


----------



## 340519

What do you think of the cardas upgrade cable? Worth it?


----------



## RCBinTN

dmdm said:


> Well I suppose I'm in the minority that like the 6khz peak. It's like listening to my golden ear triton 1s, they have such clarity. It's what I've been searching for. Actually, I have always found my focal electras too bright, so they pull home theatre duty.
> Anyway, I'll try out the eq for fun. Oooh I'll boost the bass!



Here's what I found when I did the EQ with JRiver.
It has a "preamp" slider plus 10 frequency sliders.

I turned the "preamp" slider down to -8.5dB.
That let me increase the power coming from the Bryston amplifier, which I thought had been a bit constrained.

The change gave the amp room to do its thing (breathe?) and it increased the amount of bass significantly.
I didn't change any of the low frequency sliders ... they are all set to neutral.

Net result is the HD800 now work very well for all types of music, including metal, rock and electric blues.
FYI, friends. Happy listening


----------



## protoss

dmdm said:


> I'm curious about some of the cables mentioned that alter the sonic signature of the 800. Do you all have any that you like?



Yes. Its called Draug v2. Greatest HD800 cables ever.
http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/...00-audeze-lcd-3-x-xc-hifiman-he-5-9-560-hd800


----------



## bearFNF (May 16, 2019)

I put the Q French Silk on mine, mostly for ergonomics...
http://www.q-audio.com/shopz/q-french-silk-tm-cable

Oh, and also so I can use tha cable with multiple head phones...bought the adapters for other phones.


----------



## 340519

bearFNF said:


> I put the Q French Silk on mine, mostly for ergonomics...
> http://www.q-audio.com/shopz/q-french-silk-tm-cable
> 
> Oh, and also so I can use tha cable with multiple head phones...bought the adapters for other phones.


That's really pretty.


----------



## protoss

bearFNF said:


> I put the Q French Silk on mine, mostly for ergonomics...
> http://www.q-audio.com/shopz/q-french-silk-tm-cable
> 
> Oh, and also so I can use tha cable with multiple head phones...bought the adapters for other phones.



Wont the adapters put some weight on the headphones. Looks heavy? Cool idea nontheless


----------



## nephilim32

bearFNF said:


> You got me started on an enigma marathon at work today.  Listening to the Platinum Collection.  :



Chalk me down for an Enigma fan as well. The first three albums are insanely good, especially the audio quality as well. A great pairing with the 800’s. 
Try Peter Gabriel’s Live In Athens (1987). 
Amazing quality as well.


----------



## 340519

nephilim32 said:


> Chalk me down for an Enigma fan as well. The first three albums are insanely good, especially the audio quality as well. A great pairing with the 800’s.
> Try Peter Gabriel’s Live In Athens (1987).
> Amazing quality as well.


Man I love Peter. Secret World live is one of my go tos for audio quality.


----------



## 340519 (May 17, 2019)

Well guys, I listened to a ton of different tracks last night with the dac2, and the 800 sounded stunning. I downloaded some equalizer to my laptop, but I couldn't bring myself to activate it because there was no need. The 800s sound amazing just the way they are. Yup.

Even The Black Parade was not harsh, and it usually is on the bright side. Crazily enough, it was the first time the song didn't sound like a convoluted cacophony, and I have good 2 channel gear. The 800 resolved all of the different components to the track in a clear way. Wow.


----------



## johnjen

In my experiments and research I have found that the 'problem' with the 800's isn't the 6.5KHz peak but way to much over shoot on the leading edge of fast rise time waveforms.

I have modified my 800's and the reduction of the overshoot provides a major improvement and in multiple ways.

JJ


----------



## bearFNF (May 18, 2019)

protoss said:


> Wont the adapters put some weight on the headphones. Looks heavy? Cool idea nontheless


The cable weighs almost nothing (think silk shoe laces or very light paracord), the adapters are also very light. I'll see if  I can weigh it for you today if you're interested.


----------



## 340519 (May 17, 2019)

johnjen said:


> In my experiments and research I have found that the 'problem' with the 800's isn't the 6.5KHz peak but way to much over shoot on the leading edge of fast rise time waveforms.
> 
> I have modified my 800's and the reduction of the overshoot provides a major improvement and in multiple ways.
> 
> JJ


I'm good stock. My ears are astonished every time I put them on.
By your Sig it seems you like to mod stuff so your reply makes sense. I do not want to mod anything. 
Every can I read about here has some issue or inconsistency or something that people discuss. Listening to what you like and what sounds good is subjective and that's it. I subjectively like the 800 stock. It's the sound I've been searching for. Maybe my hearing is damaged in the 6khz range and that's why it sounds right.
For instance, I think my 650s are meh, but people here rave about them. Some here have said that the night owl shouldn't even be considered good cans akin to beats, which to me is absurd because they sound great. The Sundaras are okay so I use them only for gaming now. I've been buying hi end equipment for 30 years. It goes on and on.


----------



## Ojisan

johnjen said:


> In my experiments and research I have found that the 'problem' with the 800's isn't the 6.5KHz peak but way to much over shoot on the leading edge of fast rise time waveforms.
> 
> I have modified my 800's and the reduction of the overshoot provides a major improvement and in multiple ways.
> 
> JJ



Time domain approach sounds interesting. I tried searching for your mod but only turned up some of your cable mods. Can you kindly share a summary, if there's any?


----------



## 340519 (May 18, 2019)

This is the first time in my life I'm excited to listen to headphones. I can't wait to get the 800s on again. What an amazing can.

They really handle complex passages extremely well.


----------



## johnjen (May 19, 2019)

Ojisan said:


> Time domain approach sounds interesting. I tried searching for your mod but only turned up some of your cable mods. Can you kindly share a summary, if there's any?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-diyrs-cookbook.781268/page-90#post-14608836
This is the end of the series with the links to all of the previous posts.

In essence after significantly reducing the overshoot, all of the acoustic traits I value took major steps up in terms of being 'Better'.  
I will never go back.

JJ


----------



## paradoxper

Sorry dude. 

Johnjen, you should just recommend :

Or just BaBA.


----------



## johnjen

Um, BaBA?


----------



## omniweltall

BaBA


----------



## paradoxper

BaBA


----------



## johnjen

I don't know what BaBA is, or represents.

JJ


----------



## omniweltall

It can't be explained. It just is...BaBA


----------



## paradoxper

It can be explained. It just takes a child's understanding.


----------



## Ojisan

Thanks @johnjen 

 Also coming to realization that I'm less than a child and not worthy for this thread lol


----------



## paradoxper

A child at heart and that's what counts!


----------



## riverred105

Wow thank you for the wealth of info.


----------



## connieflyer

protoss said:


> Yes. Its called Draug v2. Greatest HD800 cables ever.
> http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/...00-audeze-lcd-3-x-xc-hifiman-he-5-9-560-hd800


Actually, the Draug 3 cable is out now.  I purchased one last month to replace my Draug 2.  A nice upgrade, and I feel it takes the 800 to about as good as it is going to get.  Talked with Trevor,from Norne Audio and his customer service is some of the best I have used.  There was nothing wrong with the Drau 2, I enjoyed it quite a bit, but Trevor's explanation of the difference in the cable, was enough to get me to try it, and glad I did.  Now that I have used it for over a month, I can sell the Draug 2. Worth a look guys.  I got the black and transparent cable, looks nice.


----------



## Deftone

I feel like the only one here who does not like the look of braided or "shoe lace" cables.

This is the only aftermarket cable i like the look of (Corpse Cable GraveDigger) or the stock black wires.


----------



## Nudel

Deftone said:


> I feel like the only one here who does not like the look of braided or "shoe lace" cables.
> 
> This is the only aftermarket cable i like the look of (Corpse Cable GraveDigger) or the stock black wires.



Yeah man but braided cables transmits much less so called scratching sounds to your cans.


----------



## BreadMaster (May 27, 2019)

Omg where the **** is Sennheisers new electrostatic flagship?


----------



## Ken G

Are there any HD800 cables in the $200-$250 or less range that anyone can recommend? I've noticed there are some nice looking ones from Venus, LQI and Periapt for that price range, has anyone had any success with them?


----------



## Ichos

The Forza Audioworks cables are great first of all regarding sound and if you are not a cable
believer they are still great regarding ergonomics and micro phonics.
Built like a tank.


----------



## FiGuY1017

Also check out C3 Audio I have one of their cables for my Hekv2 and it’s very nice!


----------



## Deftone (May 27, 2019)

BreadMaster said:


> Omg where the **** is Sennheisers new planar magnetic flagship?



I dont agree with calling the 800S and 820 being called successor flagship models, disregarding the price increases they are just differently flavours in my eyes so we havent had a new true flagship in a long time, 10 years in fact. I assumed Sennheiser was going to unveil something on the HD800 10 year anniversary but obviously nothing happened.

With the release of the HE1 a few years back i thought we would have had a electrostatic jr headphone as a successor to HD800 similar to HE60. They either cant beat it with a dynamic driver or arent trying to and maybe are working on a cheaper electrostatic. Axel Grell left recently, who knows whats next...


----------



## BreadMaster

Deftone said:


> I dont agree with calling the 800S and 820 being called successor flagship models, disregarding the price increases they are just differently flavours in my eyes so we havent had a new true flagship in a long time, 10 years in fact. I assumed Sennheiser was going to unveil something on the HD800 10 year anniversary but obviously nothing happened.
> 
> With the release of the HE1 a few years back i thought we would have had a electrostatic jr headphone as a successor to HD800 similar to HE60. They either cant beat it with a dynamic driver or arent trying to and maybe are working on a cheaper electrostatic. Axel Grell left recently, who knows whats next...


I never said they were successful. Only the original HD800 is. 

I only pray for Sennheiser to come out with a new flagship to replace the aging HD800 now that its discontinued.   An electrostatic flagship from Sennheiser to surpass the Stax SR-009, or rival or beat the upcoming new Stax Omega would be MOST appreciated.


----------



## Deftone

BreadMaster said:


> *I never said they were successful. Only the original HD800 is. *
> 
> I only pray for Sennheiser to come out with a new flagship to replace the aging HD800 now that its discontinued.   An electrostatic flagship from Sennheiser to surpass the Stax SR-009, or rival or beat the upcoming new Stax Omega would be MOST appreciated.



Sorry it wasnt aimed at you i meant the general conscious.


----------



## BreadMaster (May 27, 2019)

Deftone said:


> Sorry it wasnt aimed at you i meant the general conscious.


Man remember that HD820 hype from back then?  Nomax was all strip teasing with the upcoming new Sennheiser product, people were thinking that it's a new flagship replacement for the hd800, But NO its a god damn closed- back hd800 that nobody really gives a Schiit about.  what? To compete against the other garbage from Sony? That z1r isn't going to help them crawl back to the high-end headphone market either.


----------



## BreadMaster

Deftone said:


> I dont agree with calling the 800S and 820 being called successor flagship models, disregarding the price increases they are just differently flavours in my eyes so we havent had a new true flagship in a long time, 10 years in fact. I assumed Sennheiser was going to unveil something on the HD800 10 year anniversary but obviously nothing happened.
> 
> With the release of the HE1 a few years back i thought we would have had a electrostatic jr headphone as a successor to HD800 similar to HE60. They either cant beat it with a dynamic driver or arent trying to and maybe are working on a cheaper electrostatic. Axel Grell left recently, who knows whats next...


Axell Grell left Sennheiser?

Great, Sennheiser is going to suck even more now...   less high-end more mass consumer stuff. GG Sennheiser.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

New Stax Omega? The old omega was one of those I've never heard but would really love to. The "microscope in the form of a headphone" line that DavidMahler put in his mega-review caught my eye a few years ago...


----------



## Deftone

BreadMaster said:


> Axell Grell left Sennheiser?
> 
> Great, Sennheiser is going to suck even more now...   less high-end more mass consumer stuff. GG Sennheiser.



Yes a couple months ago but he could still be a consultant for sennheiser.

http://www.grellaudio.com/


----------



## BreadMaster

bosiemoncrieff said:


> New Stax Omega? The old omega was one of those I've never heard but would really love to. The "microscope in the form of a headphone" line that DavidMahler put in his mega-review caught my eye a few years ago...


Yeah man, the new Stax Omega is indeed coming.


----------



## wormsdriver

Got a new travel case for my hd800 setup.
Here's a couple of pictures when i was setting it up, still in the works:



 

 
@connieflyer I might be interested in your Draug 2 if it's for sale, pm me if it's available.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

BreadMaster said:


> Yeah man, the new Stax Omega is indeed coming.



Link me to your favorite take


----------



## Ken G

wormsdriver said:


> Got a new travel case for my hd800 setup.
> Here's a couple of pictures when i was setting it up, still in the works:
> 
> @connieflyer I might be interested in your Draug 2 if it's for sale, pm me if it's available.


Pretty awesome looking. Did you make it or buy it somewhere?


----------



## Deftone

Ken G said:


> Pretty awesome looking. Did you make it or buy it somewhere?



He did it himself using pick and pluck foam


----------



## Ken G

Deftone said:


> He did it himself using pick and pluck foam


If you don’t mind me asking, what type and size of external case was used? Pelican 1200?

It looks excellent.


----------



## Deftone

Ken G said:


> If you don’t mind me asking, what type and size of external case was used? Pelican 1200?
> 
> It looks excellent.



I have no idea, hopefully @wormsdriver will reply.


----------



## wormsdriver

Ken G said:


> If you don’t mind me asking, what type and size of external case was used? Pelican 1200?
> 
> It looks excellent.


Thanks!
I bought it at Harbour Freight. It's the Apache 4800 model. Retail is $60, but they usually have coupons for 20 - 25% off. Mine came out to around $46 if I remember correctly, here's the link: 
https://www.harborfreight.com/4800-...e-64250.html?utm_referrer=direct/not provided


----------



## Ken G

wormsdriver said:


> Thanks!
> I bought it at Harbour Freight. It's the Apache 4800 model. Retail is $60, but they usually have coupons for 20 - 25% off. Mine came out to around $46 if I remember correctly, here's the link:
> https://www.harborfreight.com/4800-Weatherproof-Protective-Case-X-Large-64250.html?utm_referrer=direct/not provided



Very cool. My dad is very handy with tools (I’m not) and Harbor Freight is his favorite store. I’ll have to hit him up for some coupons. 

Thanks!


----------



## wormsdriver

You're welcome! 
They have different sizes too. I originally went in for the 3800 model which is a bit smaller but since my V280 is a bit long I ended up going for the bigger 4800.
I take my stuff with me everyday so I needed the everything to fit and be well protected.


----------



## whirlwind

wormsdriver said:


> Got a new travel case for my hd800 setup.
> Here's a couple of pictures when i was setting it up, still in the works:
> 
> @connieflyer I might be interested in your Draug 2 if it's for sale, pm me if it's available.




Wow, that is very nice, worms!

What a great way to travel.


----------



## Yviena

Is it just me or does taking off the dust cover give more clarity but at the expense of imaging/soundstaging, dimensionality etc.


----------



## FiGuY1017

Want a great dac to pair with the HD800? This is the best DAC I’ve heard, not many in the US seems to know about it. Very smooth sounding dac, with no loss of detail. Huge soundstage with pinpoint imaging and a airy feeling, very musical, I love this dac>>>> M2tech Young MK3+VanderGraff MK2. The Mk1 is great to haven’t heard the Mk2 yet.


----------



## Ken G

I got inspired by Wormsdriver's case and decided to make my own. I only needed to transport the headphone cables and maybe a Mojo so I opted for a smaller model and purchased the Apache 2800 for around $24 (normally $28 but used a 20% off coupon). The case is every bit as rugged as the Pelican cases. I have two Audeze cases and the build of the Apache is just as good if not better. The size of the 2800 is pretty close to the size of the most recent Audeze cases (Apache - 12x9x5.4 inches: Audeze approx 13x10x6 inches). 

Using the pick and pluck foam was pretty easy as I traced the outline of the headphone and just plucked along that and then adjusted as I placed the HD800 into the foam. There were two layers of foam to pluck and then a bottom layer that's not pluckable. After modifying the foam I glued them all together since it becomes easier to break apart with time and use if you don't. I built a small area to put cables and a small DAC/DAP if possible.

There are two additional items that i'll likely modify.

The HD800 ear cups still stick out a bit when placed in all the way and the eggshell foam on top is quite thick (1.5 inches) and presses down heavily on the top of the ear cups. I may either cut a quarter to half inch off the eggshell foam or purchase replacement foam that is only .75 inches thick on Amazon or a craft store.
The Apache sticker on top will easily peal off. I may purchase a Sennheiser sticker or print one out if possible.
Otherwise the case works great and can be purchased very cheap. If you need more room, the Apache 3800 is bigger and was on sale for $30 over the weekend (20% coupon would not work). I assume these go on sale quite often and you can avoid the $8 shipping if you purchase in store.

Below are some pictures.


----------



## RCBinTN

Ken G said:


> I got inspired by Wormsdriver's case and decided to make my own. I only needed to transport the headphone cables and maybe a Mojo so I opted for a smaller model and purchased the Apache 2800 for around $24 (normally $28 but used a 20% off coupon). The case is every bit as rugged as the Pelican cases. I have two Audeze cases and the build of the Apache is just as good if not better. The size of the 2800 is pretty close to the size of the most recent Audeze cases (Apache - 12x9x5.4 inches: Audeze approx 13x10x6 inches).
> 
> Using the pick and pluck foam was pretty easy as I traced the outline of the headphone and just plucked along that and then adjusted as I placed the HD800 into the foam. There were two layers of foam to pluck and then a bottom layer that's not pluckable. After modifying the foam I glued them all together since it becomes easier to break apart with time and use if you don't. I built a small area to put cables and a small DAC/DAP if possible.
> 
> ...



Well done and thanks for the pictures. A tremendous value for $24


----------



## Caguioa

How much more would tube amp be benefitial for hd800S?

but i never had a tube amp before, currently have the JDS Atom Amp, Range is anywhere if justified to be worth it,


----------



## Michael103

Been playing around with EQ for a few months. We need to start talking about the individual unit FR and any EQ applied. IMO it's much more important than DAC/AMP differences, not that DAC/AMPs don't matter. I'm not considering tube amps though...


----------



## johnjen

It's also important to know HOW to apply EQ, and that applies to both analog and digital.

I've found that it's WAY to easy to kill 'the life' out of my music with EQ, and at the other end of this spectrum, to compensate for 'problems' or to bring up the extreme bottom end, with gratifying results.

But it certainly isn't a panacea.

JJ


----------



## claud W

So, guys, What headphone cable are you using? Stock, Norne, WyWires ????? . Do you like copper, silver or copper with a silver coating?


----------



## sup27606

claud W said:


> So, guys, What headphone cable are you using? Stock, Norne, WyWires ????? . Do you like copper, silver or copper with a silver coating?



I use a periapt cable with balanced termination. It’s resistant to entanglement, something I struggled with using the stock cable.


----------



## RCBinTN

claud W said:


> So, guys, What headphone cable are you using? Stock, Norne, WyWires ????? . Do you like copper, silver or copper with a silver coating?



I'm using Wywires Platinum XLR. Great cables ... Alex adjusts the Litz wire formula based on the customer's music preferences and equipment.


----------



## tumpux

I use HD800S balanced cable, because it looks better than 94% of the aftermarket cable out there..


----------



## defbear

I use a Norne Draug 2 balanced cable. It was the final piece that solved the HD800. It looks like it was woven by the Dwarves for Elrond.


----------



## 340519

Well fellas, I broke down and bought the S version. Now I have them both!


----------



## 340519




----------



## gLer

dmdm said:


> Well fellas, I broke down and bought the S version. Now I have them both!


Impressions please! Is your 800 an SDR mod?


----------



## 340519

gLer said:


> Impressions please! Is your 800 an SDR mod?


No, the 800 is stock.


----------



## 340519 (Jun 27, 2019)

It's strange because all of the reviews I've read state that the bass on the S is superior, but a/bing them both out my benchmark dac2 at the same time with the same levels says otherwise. The 800 has more sub bass it sems, but the S has more mid bass punch. Hmmmm.
Also, I really like the 6khz highs on the 800 with something like Aurora. But it does get fatiguing at loud volumes, where the S does not, but the S loses the ethereal sparkle. Hmmmmm


----------



## gLer

dmdm said:


> It's strange because all of the reviews I've read state that the bass on the S is superior, but a/bing them both out my benchmark dac2 at the same time with the same levels says otherwise. The 800 has more sub bass it sems, but the S has more mid bass punch. Hmmmm.
> Also, I really like the 6khz highs on the 800 with something like Aurora. But it does get fatiguing at lod volumes, where the S does not, but the S loses the ethereal sparkle. Hmmmmm


Congratulations, you’ve just discovered the golden truth for yourself! Put an SDR in the 800 and you tame the spike without losing any of the sparkle or distortion-free bass of the original. There’s a reason so many (myself included) prefer the 800 SDR over the 800S, summarised perfectly by you above.


----------



## protoss

gLer said:


> There’s a reason so many (myself included) prefer the 800 SDR over the 800S, summarised perfectly by you above



Agree 100%


----------



## 340519 (Jun 28, 2019)

gLer said:


> Congratulations, you’ve just discovered the golden truth for yourself! Put an SDR in the 800 and you tame the spike without losing any of the sparkle or distortion-free bass of the original. There’s a reason so many (myself included) prefer the 800 SDR over the 800S, summarised perfectly by you above.


Gonna keep it stock. I will have them both plugged in to the dac at the same time so I can switch depending on the music.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

dmdm said:


> It's strange because all of the reviews I've read state that the bass on the S is superior, but a/bing them both out my benchmark dac2 at the same time with the same levels says otherwise. The 800 has more sub bass it sems, but the S has more mid bass punch. Hmmmm.
> Also, I really like the 6khz highs on the 800 with something like Aurora. But it does get fatiguing at loud volumes, where the S does not, but the S loses the *ethereal* *sparkle*. Hmmmmm


I had always tried to find the words to describe the HD800. Found it now!


----------



## 340519

Here's the setup with both.


----------



## Thenewguy007

dmdm said:


> Here's the setup with both.



Have you tried running the HDE800 off the speaker taps of the Bryston 4bsst2? The HD800 scales incredibly well & that power amp might driving the headphones directly, might be much better than from the Benchmark Dac2.

You'll need a cable adapter like this
https://lqicables.com/products/balanced-xlr-4-pin-female-to-speaker-taps-banana-plugs-pins
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Balanced-X...ifiman-HE4-HE5-HE6-HE500-adapter/172733761468
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dyson-Audi...Adapter-Hifiman-HE-6-HE-5LE-HE-4/113738986142


----------



## 340519

Thenewguy007 said:


> Have you tried running the HDE800 off the speaker taps of the Bryston 4bsst2? The HD800 scales incredibly well & that power amp might driving the headphones directly, might be much better than from the Benchmark Dac2.
> 
> You'll need a cable adapter like this
> https://lqicables.com/products/balanced-xlr-4-pin-female-to-speaker-taps-banana-plugs-pins
> ...


Whaaaaaa???? That's totally crazy! And really cool...


----------



## 340519

Thenewguy007 said:


> Have you tried running the HDE800 off the speaker taps of the Bryston 4bsst2? The HD800 scales incredibly well & that power amp might driving the headphones directly, might be much better than from the Benchmark Dac2.
> 
> You'll need a cable adapter like this
> https://lqicables.com/products/balanced-xlr-4-pin-female-to-speaker-taps-banana-plugs-pins
> ...


Do you have a preference out of those cables?


----------



## r343 (Jun 27, 2019)

screw it, i tried plenty of mods with this over the years trying to make it something that it isnt.

I just removed everything to stock, applied Tylls bass EQ and rock on!  Massived soundstage,speed,lazer sharp treble, mids and bass that slams precise as knife even with eq. Who can beat these for price

If i want mellow sound ill just switch to other hps


----------



## Thenewguy007

dmdm said:


> Do you have a preference out of those cables?



The 2nd link offers a choice between silver plated & copper occ wires, I would get one of those.
Also make sure you connect the headphone with the adapter to the amp before turning it on & have the volume on the preamp at zero & then slowly turn it up with music.


----------



## 340519 (Jun 27, 2019)

You guys with your modding. Changing the sonic signature of the stock 800 would be a travesty. I would not keep it if it were altered. The magic is because of the way it is.

I'm watching apocalypse now right now (allow myself to introduce myself) and the sound is absolutely stellar.


----------



## johnjen

dmdm said:


> You guys with your modding. Changing the sonic signature of the stock 800 would be a travesty. I would not keep it if it were altered. The magic is because of the way it is.
> 
> I'm watching apocalypse now right now (allow myself to introduce myself) and the sound is absolutely stellar.


I too tried to mod the 800's, multiple times and they all 'helped', sort of, but really didn't address the fundamental issue of listener fatigue.

And in my experimentation and modding, after reducing the all to common overshoot, my 800-jmods can now deliver more of what 800's can truly offer, with greatly reduced listener fatigue AND more of the magic 800's can deliver.

I found that it isn't the 'dreaded' 6.5KHz 'peak' at all, but far to much overshoot of the initial leading edge response.
And yes I did reduce that 'dreaded peak' in DSP EQ, but not by much at all (≈ -3dB), and really it made only a slight audible difference.

Just what I have come to understand.

JJ


----------



## FiGuY1017

dmdm said:


> You guys with your modding. Changing the sonic signature of the stock 800 would be a travesty. I would not keep it if it were altered. The magic is because of the way it is.
> 
> I'm watching apocalypse now right now (allow myself to introduce myself) and the sound is absolutely stellar.




I couldn’t agree more, I’ve concluded it is synergy related imo. In my system I tried the mods but it stole the magic that makes the 800’s special imo. On my system, I get no peaks, only huge sound, beautiful mids, details and a very musical can to my ears. Or maybe my 41 yo ears tame them down just right LoL


----------



## yates7592

I find that modding and/or EQ can work wonders for one track, but then sound s*** on the next. So for me, it quickly becomes tiresome and counter-productive. After a very long journey I am now back where I started - stock HD800. About 2 weeks ago I bought a Carey HH-1 hybrid tube amp. A pair of 6922's on the input and MOSFET output stage. Boy was that a good call on my part. I don't feel the need to EQ or change anything, it just sounds right with everything I play. Full and deep (but not over-bearing) bass, lush but not gooey mids, sparkling but not strident treble, and that unique HD800 soundstage and imaging.


----------



## tumpux

dmdm said:


> I'm watching apocalypse now right now (allow myself to introduce myself) and the sound is absolutely stellar.



Hey, same with me here. I also think that the 800 is just perfect stock. Just like it was designed by Herr Grell.
I also enjoy 800 with movies.
I am in the middle of my annual Lost rewatching session. This year I use HD800. Last year, it was HD650.


----------



## 340519

I like the 800 and the S. I'll just keep them both.


----------



## nrbatista

dmdm said:


> I like the 800 and the S. I'll just keep them both.



Which music genres are you using one or the other with? Tough question maybe, but if you had to keep just one, which one would be?


----------



## 340519

That's a good question. With a modern recording like Aurora's The River, the 800 is amazing, way beyond the S. But with say, The Pixies Wave of Mutilation, the S is the clear none sibilant choice.

Aurora is my favorite artist of 2019 btw.


----------



## nrbatista

It seems you’ll have to keep them both 

I’ve online auditioned the 800 and it’s simply amazing with Classical pieces, I was not really expecting that, truly exceptional!

However it was rather sibilant with everything else I heard in those 2h, specially vocal jazz, the likes of Diana Krall for instance. Maybe it was the setup they were connected to (don’t recall the amp). I’m waiting to listen the S once the dealer has it for audition.

(Thanks for sharing, I had never heard Aurora before, pretty good! )


----------



## FiGuY1017

The original HD800 is a tough lion to tame I guess, but I had a system in place before I bought it, so it was the final piece. I can say that imo, if you get it a nice warm, transparent source it’ll sing beautifully. It certainly does for my unmodded one. I kinda feel bad because I feel if people could hear it on my system or one similar they’d look at it in a completely different way imo.


----------



## sup27606

FiGuY1017 said:


> The original HD800 is a tough lion to tame I guess, but I had a system in place before I bought it, so it was the final piece. I can say that imo, if you get it a nice warm, transparent source it’ll sing beautifully. It certainly does for my unmodded one. I kinda feel bad because I feel if people could hear it on my system or one similar they’d look at it in a completely different way imo.



And, what is your system, may I ask?


----------



## 340519

I like the 800 with my linear measuring SS Benchmarks.


----------



## FiGuY1017

It is a M2tech Young MK3 > VanderGraff MK2 > Airist Audio Heron 5


----------



## FiGuY1017

dmdm said:


> I like the 800 with my linear measuring SS Benchmarks.



So nice to get that synergy right isn’t it. Man they are great cans!


----------



## protoss (Jun 29, 2019)

The HD800 sounds great with the JDS Atom! If people want something cheap and good enough to use. *JDS Atom $99 !!!*


----------



## gLer

FiGuY1017 said:


> The original HD800 is a tough lion to tame I guess, but I had a system in place before I bought it, so it was the final piece. I can say that imo, if you get it a nice warm, transparent source it’ll sing beautifully. It certainly does for my unmodded one. I kinda feel bad because I feel if people could hear it on my system or one similar they’d look at it in a completely different way imo.


Couldn’t agree more. I use mine with a very analogue-sounding NOS R2R dac and the synergy is sublime. That said I did the SDR mod and it was both painless and effective. A bit of a cliche, but for $15 or so, that has to be the biggest bang-for-buck in audio I’ve ever experienced. Add a touch of SonarWorks and the 800 is simply better at almost everything compared to the 800S, in my opinion, based on extensive listening on my one system. Of course we’re splitting hairs comparing arguably the two best headphones ever made


----------



## FiGuY1017

gLer said:


> Couldn’t agree more. I use mine with a very analogue-sounding NOS R2R dac and the synergy is sublime. That said I did the SDR mod and it was both painless and effective. A bit of a cliche, but for $15 or so, that has to be the biggest bang-for-buck in audio I’ve ever experienced. Add a touch of SonarWorks and the 800 is simply better at almost everything compared to the 800S, in my opinion, based on extensive listening on my one system. Of course we’re splitting hairs comparing arguably the two best headphones ever made



I agree I’m having a hard time justifying the cost of Hekv2 over my 800. Love both but there is something special about my 800. I tried the sdr and decided I liked the stock sound better, so when I went to pull the bloody thing out I got it wedged in there somehow was a stressful few minutes but I got it out of there finally lol. I was like a bleating lamb for a min LoL


----------



## 340519

I'm listening to John Coltrane's Blue Train Tidal master and it sounds much better on the S. The stock 800 magnifies the brass far too much. A little piercey.


----------



## johnjen

dmdm said:


> I'm listening to John Coltrane's Blue Train Tidal master and it sounds much better on the S. The stock 800 magnifies the brass far too much. A little piercey.


In my experience that 'piercey-ness' is the result of over shoot on the leading edge.
When ameliorated, additional textures and nuances become much more evident.

JJ


----------



## sup27606

FiGuY1017 said:


> It is a M2tech Young MK3 > VanderGraff MK2 > Airist Audio Heron 5



Thank you so much. I was curious, so I looked into some reviews on the Airist Audio Heron 5 and I read the same impression that you gave, smooth, musical and effortless. Seems like a natural match for the HD800. I was wondering if anyone compared it with the Violectric V200, which is also considered to be a great match for the 800.


----------



## 340519 (Jun 30, 2019)

I was listening to my second favorite band of 30 years last night and the award would go to the 800. The energy and crunch was much more visceral on the 800, but I couldn't have the decibel level as high a the S. The S sounded very right, but it was missing the dizzying excitment of the 800. I gotta say I do like having them both to AB with. Fun.


----------



## 340519

FiGuY1017 said:


> I agree I’m having a hard time justifying the cost of Hekv2 over my 800. Love both but there is something special about my 800. I tried the sdr and decided I liked the stock sound better, so when I went to pull the bloody thing out I got it wedged in there somehow was a stressful few minutes but I got it out of there finally lol. I was like a bleating lamb for a min LoL


I will never alter or mod any of my gear. Home renovations give me enough fearful gasp moments.


----------



## gLer

Hey guys, if any of you are interested in trying out @DekoniAudio's range of Elite pads for the HD800/HD800S, my full review is now online _here_.


----------



## sup27606

gLer said:


> Hey guys, if any of you are interested in trying out @DekoniAudio's range of Elite pads for the HD800/HD800S, my full review is now online _here_.



Great reviews. Thank you.


----------



## 340519

Have any of you tried the Dark Voice tube amp from massdrop with the 800? Do you like the sound?


----------



## yates7592

Which amp would be best for HD800 - Liquid Crimson or Liquid Gold (with stock tubes)? Especially for low-end impact, mids warmth and soundstage/imaging?


----------



## 340519 (Jul 7, 2019)

So the 800 completely wins over the S with NIN for the extra sizzle, crunch, and excitement. NIN is just too dull and dry with the S. It is just lacking punch.  It is simply awesome with the stock 800.


----------



## 340519

If I had to pick the 800 or the S to live with, at this point it would be the original.


----------



## Ichos

I prefer the S.
Sold my 800 + sdr for it.
That's a great hobby!!!


----------



## gLer

dmdm said:


> If I had to pick the 800 or the S to live with, at this point it would be the original.


Likewise. The S sacrifices too much, and the original can be made to sound like the S with basic mods/EQ while sacrificing little in return.


----------



## 340519

gLer said:


> Likewise. The S sacrifices too much, and the original can be made to sound like the S with basic mods/EQ while sacrificing little in return.


Yeah but I dig it as is.


----------



## 340519

The S, on the other hand, kills it with jazz. Kind of blue and blue train sound superb on the S, but too etchy with the 800.


----------



## Rayzilla

Lately I've been pairing the HD800 with the Masskobo 424. Oh my it is such a nice pairing according to my preferences. I can't imagine how amazing the HD800 would sound if paired with one of the desktop Masskobo's.


----------



## cddc

Ichos said:


> I prefer the S.
> Sold my 800 + sdr for it.
> That's a great hobby!!!



I agree, other than Classical music, HD800 S should be better than HD800.


----------



## 340519

cddc said:


> I agree, other than Classical music, HD800 S should be better than HD800.


I disagree. They are both stellar.


----------



## cddc

dmdm said:


> I disagree. They are both stellar.




Accepted...lol...it's quite controversial over this topic...it's just different personal preferences


----------



## cddc

Just like the HD600 vs HD650 debate


----------



## tumpux

The 800 is my second child..


----------



## RCBinTN

I prefer the original HD800 over both the HD800S and HD820, and have heard all three on my gear.
Agree it's personal preference, but to me, the "S" and 820 don't deliver the resolution of the HD800, which shine on all music genres from classical to metal.
If folks are hearing too much etchy noise, or sibilance, from the HD800 it's likely the upstream equipment not the HPs. Been there


----------



## sup27606

I don't want to reign in the debate over which one is superior, but will put it like this, the S is probably more tolerant towards a wider variant of amps and DACs (and recordings) than the original 800 is.


----------



## gLer

sup27606 said:


> I don't want to reign in the debate over which one is superior, but will put it like this, the S is probably more tolerant towards a wider variant of amps and DACs (and recordings) than the original 800 is.


I agree with this, and will only add that if you get the upstream system right, the original is a better headphone than the S. Get the synergy wrong (which is easier done with the 800 than the S) and you’re in for a frustrating listen.


----------



## sup27606

gLer said:


> I agree with this, and will only add that if you get the upstream system right, the original is a better headphone than the S. Get the synergy wrong (which is easier done with the 800 than the S) and you’re in for a frustrating listen.



Absolutely! Learned it the hard way, and haven't given up. My current favorite pairing is the La Figaro 339 with CV4079 as power tubes and RCA 5693 as rectifiers.


----------



## gLer (Jul 18, 2019)

sup27606 said:


> Absolutely! Learned it the hard way, and haven't given up. My current favorite pairing is the La Figaro 339 with CV4079 as power tubes and RCA 5693 as rectifiers.


I can almost see the board meetings at Sennheiser before each of the new ‘flagships’:

“Axel, we realise you made the perfect headphone, but some customers are complaining it doesn’t play nice with their amps.”

Result: HD800S, which tries to ‘fix’ the ‘sound issues’ of the 800 by adding a resonator (same can be done with a $15 plastic upgrade, as we later discovered) but mainly by changing the tuning to play better with more amps. Hits the mark but loses some of the charm and technicalities of the original (like the new Lion King movie).

“Axel, our customers want a closed version of the HD800 for some reason. Oh, and give them more bass while you’re at it.”

Result: HD820, which tries to ‘mimic’ the original’s sound but falls well short, using smoke and mirrors (mainly glass) to make it look like it’s worth $1000 more when it really isn’t, at all. Not even close. (like the new Aladdin movie).


----------



## cddc

gLer said:


> I can almost see the board meetings at Sennheiser before each of the new ‘flagships’:
> 
> “Alex, we realise you made the perfect headphone, but some customers are complaining it doesn’t play nice with their amps.”
> 
> ...




LOL..."Alex, our customers have been waiting on an upgrade from HD800 for a long time. When do you think our next flagship HD900 will be released?"


----------



## Ichos

It's Axel !!!
And he left Sennheiser probably because he couldn't overcome his best creation!


----------



## gLer

Ichos said:


> It's Axel !!!
> And he left Sennheiser probably because he couldn't overcome his best creation!


Of course yes, fixed. Haven’t had my morning coffee yet!


----------



## gLer

cddc said:


> LOL..."Axel, our customers have been waiting on an upgrade from HD800 for a long time. When do you think our next flagship HD900 will be released?"


Haha, yep, and Axel leaves the building. Micdrop.


----------



## cddc

Ichos said:


> It's Axel !!!
> And he left Sennheiser probably because he couldn't overcome his best creation!



Axel has left Sennheiser? My jaw just dropped.


----------



## cddc

So I guess we will be stuck with HD800/HD800S/HD820 for another 10 years.


----------



## gLer

cddc said:


> So I guess we will be stuck with HD800/HD800S/HD820 for another 10 years.


I can think of worse fates in head-fi. Luckily HD800 is one of my endgame headphones, so it doesn’t really matter


----------



## Ichos

No one is indispensable.
Maybe another master engineer - genius is working now in the new HD900 project....


----------



## Ichos

gLer said:


> I can think of worse fates in head-fi. Luckily HD800 is one of my endgame headphones, so it doesn’t really matter



Luckily for all of us who think the same because with the headphones price racing the new HD900 is going to be untouchable!


----------



## cddc

HiFiMan, Audeze, Abyss, etc are ridiculous in pricing...so they only have very small market shares.

I don't think Sennheiser will follow suit. As a major player in the market, they will keep their pricing reasonable in order to maintain their market share.


----------



## johnjen

sup27606 said:


> I don't want to reign in the debate over which one is superior, but will put it like this, the S is probably more tolerant towards a wider variant of amps and DACs (and recordings) than the original 800 is.





gLer said:


> I agree with this, and will only add that if you get the upstream system right, the original is a better headphone than the S. Get the synergy wrong (which is easier done with the 800 than the S) and you’re in for a frustrating listen.



I concur.
800's can be VERY revealing and the SQ dependent upon the upstream gear and setup.

Case in point, I am currently running a 45 tubeamp, and my DSP setup will need to be completely different, and perhaps not needed at all vs. the SS gear it was setup to be used with.

JJ


----------



## gLer

cddc said:


> HiFiMan, Audeze, Abyss, etc are ridiculous in pricing...so they only have very small market shares.
> 
> I don't think Sennheiser will follow suit. As a major player in the market, they will keep their pricing reasonable in order to maintain their market share.


Umm, except for the HD820... horribly overpriced for what it is.


----------



## protoss (Jul 18, 2019)

Sennheiser next flagship is suppose (rumor) to be a planar tech headphone.

Hopefully it is a planar HD800!


----------



## Ichos

I have a piggy bank were I am saving 2€ coins!
When Sennheiser releases their new open flagship I am going to be prepared!


----------



## whirlwind

protoss said:


> Sennisher next flagship is suppose (rumor) to be a planar tech headphone.
> 
> Hopefully it is a planar HD800!



This would be very interesting if they dip their feet into planars...I will stay tuned.


----------



## J Mirra (Jul 18, 2019)




----------



## 340519

sup27606 said:


> Absolutely! Learned it the hard way, and haven't given up. My current favorite pairing is the La Figaro 339 with CV4079 as power tubes and RCA 5693 as rectifiers.


I'm very happy with both of my benchmark dacs powering the 800.  The 800 sounds fabulous.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

cddc said:


> LOL..."Alex, our customers have been waiting on an upgrade from HD800 for a long time. When do you think our next flagship HD900 will be released?"



 OK, OK... you win... I give!

 I have been Working Undercover on the New Flagship Sennheiser, and despite my signed Non-Disclosure agreement, the comments here prompt me to reveal what the new Sennheise HD 1000 wlll be (sorry, Sennheiser!  But you never gave me that pair of Beats headphones you promised!):

 I have pilfered a picture of the new HD 1000 from the Sennheiser lab, shown here in its case.  As you can see, it will be sold in the same case as the present HD 800:



 The HD 1000 offers several improvements over the HD 800:


Even more than Grado headphones the new HD 1000 is completely transparent!   The picture above confirms this, as you can see ALL of the back of the box, even under the HD 1000.
The HD 1000 is also weightless... you will never know that you are wearing it. (no weight indentations in the box)
The HD 1000 is very soft... you cannot feel any pressure squeezing your ears or weighting your head.
The HD 1000 is wireless... no messy cables to stumble over.
The HD 1000 is so completely realistic that it comes with the new Sennheiser Realism Guarantee ("SRG") -- listen to what is around you without the HD 1000, then put them on and listen. We guarantee that you will not be able to tell the difference!  Complete realism, as measured by A/B blind testing over dozens of trial users.  Unlike most headphones that fight their environment by trying to impose their own sounds upon your ear, the HD 1000 will complement the acoustic environment that you are in, providing exact reproduction of its sounds.

 Like the HD 800, introduced at a price that was double its model number, the HD 1000 will be offered at $2,000, double its model number.

 However, I stole several prototypes from the lab and I am happy to sell them at half price, or $1,000 each.  Since they are weightless, there is no charge for shipping other than the cost of shipping the box. 

 Please.... first come, first served!


----------



## protoss (Jul 26, 2019)

@ruthieandjohn

Sorry buddy. You got to delete that post on top.

Sennheiser could never ever do a model called HD1000! They have to change up their flagship name soon to Sennheiser X1 or SX or start naming them gods names or after a flower or woman (Susvara, Utopia, Diana etch...)

History lesson:  

1000 pairs were released in 1995 as part of Sennheiser´s 50th anniversary, it was called *Sennhesier HD1000 Charleston.*

1995 limited series, gold-plated legendary average sounding *Sennhesier HD1000* was release.

The Sennhesier HD1000 Charleston headphone is not hi-end headphones. It couldnt even beat 580/600/650 level.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

@protoss , you always want more and don’t take No for an answer, do You?

Not wanting to completely out the new flagship, I fibbed by calling it the HD1000, but you make me reveal its true name...

The Emperor*

* as in, “ The Emperor has no clothes!”


----------



## protoss

LOL


----------



## cddc

ruthieandjohn said:


> OK, OK... you win... I give!
> 
> I have been Working Undercover on the New Flagship Sennheiser, and despite my signed Non-Disclosure agreement, the comments here prompt me to reveal what the new Sennheise HD 1000 wlll be (sorry, Sennheiser!  But you never gave me that pair of Beats headphones you promised!):
> 
> ...



LOL....this is the HD 1000 Emperor Edition version.


----------



## BreadMaster

ruthieandjohn said:


> OK, OK... you win... I give!
> 
> I have been Working Undercover on the New Flagship Sennheiser, and despite my signed Non-Disclosure agreement, the comments here prompt me to reveal what the new Sennheise HD 1000 wlll be (sorry, Sennheiser!  But you never gave me that pair of Beats headphones you promised!):
> 
> ...


LMAO, thats some funny schiit


----------



## Deftone

protoss said:


> Sennheiser next flagship is suppose (rumor) to be a planar tech headphone.
> 
> Hopefully it is a planar HD800!



Where has this rumor come from?


----------



## protoss

Deftone said:


> Where has this rumor come from?



Its a very old rumor. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/8w01ir/is_sennheiser_trying_to_patent_cylinder_magnets/


----------



## protoss (Jul 23, 2019)

Here is Sennhesier patent for planar tech.

https://patents.google.com/patent/DE102016108598A1/en

2016-05-10

Application filed by Sennheiser electronic GmbH and Co KG
2016-05-10

Priority to DE102016108598.7A
2017-11-16

Publication of DE102016108598A1
2019-07-23

*Application status is Pending*


----------



## cddc (Jul 23, 2019)

If Sennheiser releases planar headphones, I guess Audeze and HiFiMan will go bankrupt, their pricing and product quality is just ridiculous and ugly.


----------



## nrbatista

cddc said:


> If Sennheiser releases planar headphones, I guess Audeze and HiFiMan will go bankrupt, their pricing and product quality is just ridiculous and ugly.



... assuming that Sennheiser keeps their price tag with a new technology that may be expensive to put together or manufacture.


----------



## cddc

nrbatista said:


> ... assuming that Sennheiser keeps their price tag with a new technology that may be expensive to put together or manufacture.




Hopefully...lol...major firms v.s. boutique firms...they have different pricing and quality control.


----------



## BreadMaster

cddc said:


> If Sennheiser releases planar headphones, I guess Audeze and HiFiMan will go bankrupt, their pricing and product quality is just ridiculous and ugly.



lmao, sennheiser finally joining the planar trend huh? so late in the game...

so many planar headphones in the market already, give us a jr HE1 man!!!~


----------



## sup27606

I like the hd800 for the precise imaging that no other headphones can come close to, planar or dynamic. I also like the comfort and ergonomics. What I miss is a lcd-3 kind of bass, visceral, rumbling, feeling of air moving into the ears. I wonder if they can retain the unique radial design of the hd800 drivers and all the good things that brings, and add a planar component just for the bass, with some crossover.


----------



## Thenewguy007

sup27606 said:


> I like the hd800 for the precise imaging that no other headphones can come close to, planar or dynamic. I also like the comfort and ergonomics. What I miss is a lcd-3 kind of bass, visceral, rumbling, feeling of air moving into the ears. I wonder if they can retain the unique radial design of the hd800 drivers and all the good things that brings, and add a planar component just for the bass, with some crossover.



With the right amp & DAC you can feel that type of feeling with the bass & air rumble.


----------



## Ichos

^
Agree.


----------



## gLer

Thenewguy007 said:


> With the right amp & DAC you can feel that type of feeling with the bass & air rumble.


Almost, you won’t quite get it to LCD-3 quantity, but SonarWorks and the right upstream components will get you close. The quality of the HD800 bass surpasses the LCD-3 in my opinion, and also dynamic drivers will always move more ‘air’ than planars just because of how they’re designed. I sold my LCD-3 in favour of two dynamic headphones (one being the HD800) for that very reason.


----------



## sup27606 (Jul 26, 2019)

Thenewguy007 said:


> With the right amp & DAC you can feel that type of feeling with the bass & air rumble.



Thanks. That’s good to know. I also see, a few others agree with you. After hearing the LCD3 through the Woo Audio WA7 with tube power supplies and comparing against the HD800, I got the impression. LCD3 bass sounded so much fuller and weightier than the HD800. If there are DAC/AMP combos that can create that sort of effect through the HD800, (they may remain out of reach price wise) even if only for curiosity I would like to know.

Which DAC/AMP combo from your personal experience produces such air moving, impactful bass through the HD800? I am guessing that would be one of the Eddie Current amps or DNA Stratus or other such high end ones?


----------



## Ichos

Not necessarily expensive ones.
For example Mjolnir 2 with Gumby hits very hard at the bass and it is very full.
The same and better with V280.
But keep in mind that although a very full and hard hitting bass is a different presentation than the LCD3
so it's not guaranteed that you are going to like it or feel that it's not missing.
LCD3 is more coloured at the bass / midbass region so it's a different thing for different tastes.


----------



## JaZZ

sup27606 said:


> Thanks. That’s good to know. I also see, a few others agree with you. After hearing the LCD3 through the Woo Audio WA7 with tube power supplies and comparing against the HD800, I got the impression. LCD3 bass sounded so much fuller and weightier than the HD800. If there are DAC/AMP combos that can create that sort of effect through the HD800, (they may remain out of reach price wise) even if only for curiosity I would like to know.
> 
> Which DAC/AMP combo from your personal experience produces such air moving, impactful bass through the HD800? I am guessing that would be one of the Eddie Current amps or DNA Stratus or other such high end ones?


It's not an amp thing. The amp should not create bass that's not there on the recording. Better look for a neutral amp, which is a better precondition for accuracy and transparency. The acoustic frequency response at low frequencies differs considerably between LCD-3 and HD 800, so the only adequate tool for an approximation is equalizing...







...which will do exactly what you want.  Also look at Sonarworks. (Above curve is a projection for a stock HD 800 based on my modified pair.)


----------



## Thenewguy007

sup27606 said:


> Thanks. That’s good to know. I also see, a few others agree with you. After hearing the LCD3 through the Woo Audio WA7 with tube power supplies and comparing against the HD800, I got the impression. LCD3 bass sounded so much fuller and weightier than the HD800. If there are DAC/AMP combos that can create that sort of effect through the HD800, (they may remain out of reach price wise) even if only for curiosity I would like to know.
> 
> Which DAC/AMP combo from your personal experience produces such air moving, impactful bass through the HD800? I am guessing that would be one of the Eddie Current amps or DNA Stratus or other such high end ones?



I had a few.  When using a Trafomatic Head 2 with the right tubes & setting it too 300 or 600 ohms & pairing it with a good DAC like the Schiit Gungnir, the bass on the HD800 rumbled & hit much harder than the Audeze LCD-2 & Hifiman HE1000 ever could. What's great about that, while the bass rumble increases, the staging & transparency don't take a hit from it.

Any vintage amp with a loudness button (bass boost) also gave similar results.


----------



## JaZZ (Jul 27, 2019)

Vintage amps and transparency are something like opposites – as they usually have a distinct «sound» (read «phatness»). Also, a precision instrument such as the HD 800 deserves better equalization than a random «loudness contour».

Of course that's from someone with ultimate sound quality in mind, resulting in a sound as close to the original recording as possible. In this sense I'm spoiled by a Chord DAVE, which needs no amp at all – one source of coloration and obfuscation less in the chain. And of course the lack of bass emphasis on the part of the electronics explicitly calls for a corresponding digital equalization – the best solution, as it effectively consists of adequate amplitude corrections instead of added euphonic harmonic distortion (the usual recipe of bassy amplifiers).


----------



## protoss

sup27606 said:


> Which DAC/AMP combo from your personal experience produces such air moving, impactful bass through the HD800? I am guessing that would be one of the Eddie Current amps or DNA Stratus or other such high end ones?



http://www.headphoneer.com/hd800-amplifier-review/


----------



## RCBinTN

JaZZ said:


> It's not an amp thing. The amp should not create bass that's not there on the recording. Better look for a neutral amp, which is a better precondition for accuracy and transparency.


Agree 100%. I too am a fan of neutral sound, that's a big reason why the HD800 are so great.

The bass (really all the frequencies) sound very natural to me.
When the music presents bass, the HD800 deliver it. But, the bass never gets in the way of details in the midrange, either.

I can recommend the Schiit Gungnir MB/A2 DAC and the Bryston BHA-1 amplifier as a neutral and great-sounding rig.
Both fully hardware-balanced designs. They are about US$3,500 for both.
Probably not close to the DAVE 

Happy Listening!


----------



## connieflyer

In agreement with the above statements on bass with the Senn 800 I use the Gumby Gen5, Sonorworks, and a Feliks Audio tube amp.  Rolling in different tubes affect the sound and how it is presented. My latest combo of tubes have brought the 800's up to the level of bass and the rest of the audio spectrum to great heights.  The latest tubes rolled that give me everything I could want in sound are the El 39 triode strapped pentodes and the EL 11Valvo mesh plates also triode strapped pentodes.


----------



## mcgo

I’ll add my drop of water to the ocean that is this thread. I’ve been the proud owner of HD800 since 2016 and to say I’m in love is an understatement! The past three years, these headphones are always top-of-mind. Even when they are not on my head, I’ll look at them with a dreamy satisfaction. They’re that good!

My equipment journey to end-game has revolved around these phones...  The Violectric V280 was purchased specifically to run them balanced - and it is a beast! The speed, bass, soundstage and authority is unmatched!

I added the ADI-2 DAC to the mix 6 months ago and it has completed the setup. I’ve experimented with various DACs, and I can say without reservation - buy the ADI-2! I run my ADI HOT and LOCKED, no EQ, the Violectric on 0 gain, and the HD800 delivers every time! They *want* excellence in your chain and are always a step ahead.


----------



## Ichos

As a fellow owner of V280 I have to admit that you are absolutely right!!!
This is a beast and an exceptional match with HD800/S.
Easily considered as an end game SS amp.


----------



## donlin

The Benchmark DAC3 HGC seems pretty special with the 800S.


----------



## gLer

Does anyone run their HD800 balanced off a Little Dot MkIII SE?


----------



## Deftone

Maybe sennheiser felt they reached the pinnacle of dynamic transducer design with the ring radiator driver in HD800, it would explain why this has been the longest gap between flagships, precisely 10 years and still counting! What could have been a planar side project might now well be the main focus and the next step to releasing a HD900. 

Get your banks accounts ready folks I can see this one being in the 3k+ category...

(Speculation post)


----------



## Whitigir

How many headphones out there already caught up to the 10 years old Hd800 yet ? If not....sennheiser need not to worry.  Most of the stuff out there is really just a rip off in comparison to what the Hd800s can really bring


----------



## MacedonianHero

donlin said:


> The Benchmark DAC3 HGC seems pretty special with the 800S.



Totally agreed!


----------



## Maxx134 (Aug 2, 2019)

gLer said:


> Does anyone run their HD800 balanced off a Little Dot MkIII SE?


It is my opinion that actually the specific model LD MKVIIIse amp was literally made for the HD800  headphone in mind.
The HD800 sounds more natural with slight more mid-range on it.

The HD800 also sounds great if not fantastic on speaker amps too (!).


----------



## Maxx134 (Aug 4, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> How many headphones out there already caught up to the 10 years old Hd800 yet ? If not....sennheiser need not to worry.  Most of the stuff out there is really just a rip off in comparison to what the Hd800s can really bring



 The Utopia was first dynamic to actually catch up to very slightly surpass HD800 in speed, but not soundstage, and at what a higher price.

The Stax009 & raal ribbon also can catch & surpass HD800 in speed/resolve, but need special amps to do so. IMO, neither has shown to be  a decisive keeper over an HD800.

IMO, only the Susvara has the combo of full range plus soundstage, plus speed/resolve to be a keeper, over an HD800.
(But at what price and amplification needs..)

A Diana Phi, Abyss, or empyrean would be a slight step down choice from a Susvara, but easier to drive instead of a Susvara and so a decent alternative, but still at a higher cost than an HD800, of course.

All the other new cans out now, (verite, stellia, ether2, etc.)
Do perform at higher level than normal, but still not catch up to the HD800 level resolve and at what a higher price.
Also, the unspoken closed cans that also perform above average in sound, and extremely good for price are Dennon 7200 & Sony MDR-Z7 

So to sum up, Sennheiser still has nothing to worry about.
HD800 sets the bar for performance to price ratio.

All is IMO, so your observations may vary.


----------



## Nik74

Maxx134 said:


> The Utopia was first dynamic to actually catch up to very slightly surpass HD800 in speed, but not soundstage, and at what a higher price.
> 
> The Stax009 & raal ribbon also can catch & surpass HD800 in speed/resolve, but need special amps to do so. IMO, neither has shown to be  a decisive keeper over an HD800.
> 
> ...



I could not agree more!

I do think the Susvara ae rather stellar but having done a back and forth between them and 800S in the dcS room at CanJam last weekend I made a comfortable decision that the price difference -for me and my budget- didn't quite make sense. Again from a personal preference perspective I m not a fan of the Utopia and it's tiny soundstage, nor can I handle the Abyss fit as it constantly makes me feel something is wrong with my headshape- and maybe there is lol-.
A Stax 009 though, hmmm, If I had £10K spare , I d love to set up a rig around those so bad!
To the point though, nothing under £1400 beats either the 800 or 800S. For now...

What I am itching to find out right now is how much I would prefer, if at all, the orginal 800 over my 800S. And if a cable under £350 or so would diminish the diffuse feel but not at the expense of soundstage size. If anyone has input please do share


----------



## Kukuk (Aug 4, 2019)

I've got a pair of HD800 on the way, and I'm really excited to try them out. I heard them years and years ago at 32 Ohm Audio in Portland, but I remember remarkably little about them. I'm curious to see how they'll compare to the HE-500. I remember people were comparing these two more than any similarly priced headphones, and at the time these were both somewhat flavors of the month. It'll be interesting to see which will stand the test of time better. I can pretty much guarantee I'll see the HE-500 as a better value, though.

I refuse to spend $350 on an official balanced cable, so I went for one of these surprisingly nice chi-fi cables. Of course, it got here before the headphones, because the headphones are being shipped via Fedex. I've decided I'm going to passive aggressively post pictures of the cable as though they were the headphones to entertain myself.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

@Kukuk , where did you buy that cable?  I love the 4.4mm balanced connector for my Sony 1A!


----------



## Kukuk

ruthieandjohn said:


> @Kukuk , where did you buy that cable?  I love the 4.4mm balanced connector for my Sony 1A!



From Amazon, here:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SH19TN2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's a little more expensive than this company's other cables, but from what I understand the HD800 connectors are a bit more expensive than more standard ones. The cable I got from them for my HE-500 was only $60.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm busting them out after two months away from them in Europe - really enjoying what they do with the Sibelius violin concerto. The Heifetz 1960 performance is quick, natural, and superbly rendered. If I had to go to any one headphone, HD800 might be it.


----------



## sup27606

My latest excursion is trying out a small speaker amp with the HD800. I hooked it up with a little speaker taps to Xlr adapter that I made. It imparted a lot of bass punch and smoothed out the hot treble without losing any sparkle, in line with what has been reported about speaker amps before. Rock, electronica and old albums sound quite good, and the overall sound is more musical, probably due to the added warmth.


----------



## tumpux

sup27606 said:


> My latest excursion is trying out a small speaker amp with the HD800. I hooked it up with a little speaker taps to Xlr adapter that I made.



Would you mind to explain to us how to make the adapter?


----------



## jcn3

tumpux said:


> Would you mind to explain to us how to make the adapter?



You would need a four pin female xlr plug, solder wire to the pins, and connect banana plugs (or spades, or just leave the wire bare) to connect to an amp.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Nik74 said:


> I could not agree more!
> 
> I do think the Susvara ae rather stellar but having done a back and forth between them and 800S in the dcS room at CanJam last weekend I made a comfortable decision that the price difference -for me and my budget- didn't quite make sense. Again from a personal preference perspective I m not a fan of the Utopia and it's tiny soundstage, nor can I handle the Abyss fit as it constantly makes me feel something is wrong with my headshape- and maybe there is lol-.
> A Stax 009 though, hmmm, If I had £10K spare , I d love to set up a rig around those so bad!
> ...



I’ve owned them both at the same time. I much prefer the 800S. It has more bass impact and a smoother top end. Everything else is the same.


----------



## sup27606

tumpux said:


> Would you mind to explain to us how to make the adapter?





jcn3 said:


> You would need a four pin female xlr plug, solder wire to the pins, and connect banana plugs (or spades, or just leave the wire bare) to connect to an amp.



Pretty much, jcn3 explained it. It’s important to know the xlr pin layout to decide where to connect each wire, I.e. pins 1-2: left speaker +/-, pins 3-4: right speaker +/-. Other than that, you need some skills in soldering, which isn’t difficult to acquire. When I saw the price of the adapters sold on EBay, I decided to make my own.

Please keep the volume pot of the amp at zero before connecting the headphones, then slowly turn the volume up. Also, if the power amp is a tube amp, you would need a resistor network in the adapter to match output impedance of the amp.

This is a good resource to read: https://robrobinette.com/RobinetteBox.htm


----------



## Ichos

Hifiearspeakers said:


> I’ve owned them both at the same time. I much prefer the 800S. It has more bass impact and a smoother top end. Everything else is the same.



As i have owned HD800 stock , then with SDR mod and HD800S
I totally agree.


----------



## donlin

Hifiearspeakers said:


> I’ve owned them both at the same time. I much prefer the 800S. It has more bass impact and a smoother top end. Everything else is the same.


Same here.


----------



## gLer

Hifiearspeakers said:


> I’ve owned them both at the same time. I much prefer the 800S. It has more bass impact and a smoother top end. Everything else is the same.


I’ve had them both. The 800S fudges the bass with more distortion. Overall the 800 gives you more to work with if you’re not afraid to EQ. The only downside of the 800 is physical, with the paint chipping if you’re not careful with them, so I refurbed my 800 and now it’s good as new. Not bad for a 10 year old. No other headphone I can think of that still holds its own against kilobuck flagships after a decade or more.

PS. The 800 is very system specific. The 800S is definitely less sensitive to amp variations, so can easily sound better on a system where the 800 doesn’t shine.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Anyone driving their HD-800 from good quality power amps? What's your experience? Irrc this preproman fellow is driving all his headphones from his pre/power amp combo but his gear is out my league.


----------



## Maxx134

Hifiearspeakers said:


> I much prefer the 800S


For those that prefer the HD800S sound over the HD800, and currently have the HD800, you can try my suggested Sennheiser foam...
In my signature link.


----------



## Kukuk

They're here!






First impressions: whoever said these are not very musical, and too clinical, we're gonna have ourselves a fight. They're lovely, and not at all unmusical or lacking fun.

Once I get some proper time on them I'll post some extended impressions, but for now I am immensely pleased.


----------



## donlin

Kukuk said:


> They're here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When the HD800 first came out nine years ago, DACs and headphone amps were generally not as good as what's available now.  I think that may be one reason that they have a reputation for being thin and analytical.


----------



## sup27606

Maxx134 said:


> For those that prefer the HD800S sound over the HD800, and currently have the HD800, you can try my suggested Sennheiser foam...
> In my signature link.



Thanks, I have ordered some tips from Sennheiser. Will report back my impression once I receive them.


----------



## fortunate son (Mar 20, 2020)

Fegefeuer said:


> Anyone driving their HD-800 from good quality power amps? What's your experience? Irrc this preproman fellow is driving all his headphones from his pre/power amp combo but his gear is out my league.


Withdrawn.


----------



## Maxx134 (Aug 5, 2019)

fortunate son said:


> Today, I put together a hookup rig for use of my HD 800 headphones


Agreed, the HD800 is one of the few headphones that can be run off a strong amp like a speaker amp and sound even better.
Usually a tube speaker amp will sound jaw dropping great.
Most headphones cannot be used this way because lower impedance they will pickup noise floor and blow up from sensitivity so dangerous to do on most all other headphones except the lower sensitivity planars like Susvara & HE6.


----------



## johnjen

And if you are a DIY'r, put ≈ 8Ω or 16Ω resistors (depending on which taps you use) across the outputs when you connect the 800's to a tube amp's outputs.
This 'trick' will help to properly load the output xfmr and tubes.

JJ


----------



## protoss

Here's my DIY



 

As you can see. My mod is in the RED.


----------



## Ichos

What material is liner and were can be found?


----------



## protoss

@Ichos - easy liner, cupboard liner. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=eaay+liner&_sacat=0

I paid $1.00 at a dollar store for mine


----------



## sup27606

protoss said:


> @Ichos - easy liner, cupboard liner. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=eaay+liner&_sacat=0
> 
> I paid $1.00 at a dollar store for mine



Thanks for sharing your experimentation. How did your mod affect the soundstage and imaging properties? Also how does the THD plot compares with the stock? We want to make sure that the increased bass doesn't increase distortion.

From your posted graphs, it looks like, overall there is a slight reduction in db throughout the frequency spectrum (which is not a problem). I was wondering it may be helpful to 'normalize' the graphs by offsetting the red curve so that it shows the same db value at 1Khz as the blue curve, so that it is easier to compare the bass and the treble regions. Also, reducing the y axis scaling may help accentuate the differences between red vs blue curves. Thanks for sharing.

BTW, these measurements are with the SDR mod in place, right?


----------



## Ichos

Great thanks for the info!


----------



## protoss

@sup27606 

The mod is with the SDR mod. Combination of the dollar store liner and SDR mod. The dollar liner should not be a dismiss. It's good quality and dose the job!

The chart speaks for itself.

The bass is the same or slightly unnoticeable improve. But the same.

The treble is fixed by the SDR mod. The liner just balance everything together.

The mids are pronounce to being a tad better. Maybe it's placebo.

The soundstage and imaging is the same.

It is basically the same beautiful HD800 With a 2K amp sound. Without the 2K amp 

The is by far the greatest mod I did to the HD800. It's the same sound without all those glare. The liner covers all that glare up 

So, with this mod. You can use bright amps now! Yes, my modded HD800 is not picky no more!! I can use any amp I want


----------



## protoss

The treble can be more pronounce if you take out the SDR MOD and keep the liner. 
And maybe the chart will look even better?

But no way I will take the SDR mod out. Never will. It's a brilliant design.


----------



## sup27606

protoss said:


> @sup27606
> 
> The mod is with the SDR mod. Combination of the dollar store liner and SDR mod. The dollar liner should not be a dismiss. It's good quality and dose the job!
> 
> ...



It looks like the treble peaks are more even-ed out. The 6K peak is no longer protruding. Good thing is, this mod can be easily tried, since the material is readily available. Do you put back the mesh cover over the mod material, or leave it out?


----------



## protoss

sup27606 said:


> It looks like the treble peaks are more even-ed out. The 6K peak is no longer protruding. Good thing is, this mod can be easily tried, since the material is readily available. Do you put back the mesh cover over the mod material, or leave it out?



I put the mesh back.

A better look at my liner


----------



## sup27606

Good. Its worth giving a shot. I realize, I have used this material in the past for lining kitchen racks.


----------



## RCBinTN

protoss said:


> So, with this mod. You can use bright amps now! Yes, my modded HD800 is not picky no more!! I can use any amp I want


They also sound great without mods whilst using a proper amp


----------



## Joong

They are the endgame phone in every respect for orchestral classical music.
When you come back from other phones, you can immediately recognize the difference, a whole new dimension that opens on you.


----------



## GraveNoX (Aug 8, 2019)

Bought HD800 today and listened for 5 hours straight, had a brief listening to HD700 and not actually liked them, bought HD800 just because everyone has them and was very curious what was the fuzz about them. I hated this brand for so long, I thought it was just plastic for kids.
These are the first headphones that can keep with the rhythm of the music and not be bored after a while. Noticed the speed improvement right away but in the first hour didn't like them because it sounds just like a dynamic driver and it has almost  same timbre as my JBL LSR305 when EQed with Sonarworks Reference 4 so I was expecting another signature, but the improvement in clarity is obvious that I didn't cared anymore if it's the same timbre.
I use them without EQ, I don't find stock sound troublesome, actually they are less picky than DT1990 I have. I prefer Mojo with DT1990 because of this.
Tried three EQs from metal571 video and it's a little better: 2dB Q0.6 at 60hz, 3dB Q1.41 at 2khz, 2dB Q2 at 12khz.
Currently i use them with Chord Hugo 2 because i don't have a 6.3 to 3.5 adapter to test with Mojo or Emotiva TA-100.
HD800 are very bright but somehow doesn't fatigue on bright or very bright music, maybe I'm deaf even if my previous audiogram said I hear like a 19 year old (I was 27 back then).
Somehow it has lower crosstalk than DT1990 or STAX L700+353X+QED Reference Audio 40 RCA, maybe because of the bigger sound separation or maybe lack of distorsion and lacking peaks in Chord DACs that didn't showed up on previous headphones.
As for resolution, HD800>L700>DT1990>ATH-MSR7>SHP9500.
As for brightness, L700>DT1990>HD800>ATH-MSR7>SHP9500.
As for music enjoyment, HD800>DT1990>L700>ATH-MSR7>SHP9500
Many background noise, reverb, other cues or micro-details are just not rendered on STAX L700. Way better vocals than L700 (more articulate and coherent), L700 lacks macro dynamics and... microdynamics. Well, L700 lacks dynamics because they are e-stats, the sound is weightless even at high volumes, no ear pinching, it's like hearing sound without ears.
HD800 has bass only if the music track ask for, well that's the point of a high-end headphone or a DAC, to give only what the music file contains. If you want bass boost you buy a bass boost knob.
HD800 bass is very clean, like never heard before but on some songs almost can't hear the bass hit which is weird because on some songs it hits very hard and going quite low. Maybe for the first time I hear a headphone that can show a bigger difference in bass (or other frequencies) between songs or between songs of the same album.
HD800 have soundstage only if the music track ask for which is amazing. I still think L700 have much wider and taller sound but i will check again in a few days (I want to get used to HD800 sound). Maybe that's why STAX are praised, because of the gigantic imaging, but not actual resolution.
I was afraid that i need only good mastered music or only some specific genres, not really, it shines on almost any music genre, almost any mp3 or even youtube, lack of resolution doesn't change frequency response.
I didn't find them to sound sterile or analytical, yes, maybe they are more transparent than other headphones, but they are not analytical. I find Yamaha HS7 very analytical for that matter.
HD800 are not what i hoped in terms of resolution, pretty sure there's nothing right there to show every sound distinct from each other but HD800 may show it or maybe I don't have right source for them.


----------



## fortunate son

fortunate son said:


> Today, I put together a hookup rig for use of my HD 800 headphones (with the stefanaudioart  ultra-modification) with a Goldpoint SA4-47 passive preamp and a PrimaLuna Prologue Four power amp (discontinued). The amp has the stock PrimaLuna brand EL 34, 12AU7 and 12AX7 tubes.
> 
> Wow! To me, this is a step up with the HD800 from my Woo WA6SE with upgraded tubes. Wonderful sound: very detailed, rich, smooth with great clarity and tight bass; highly recommended.
> 
> ...


Update: I tried the SYS again with a better and shorter interconnect and it is very good with the HD800 and my tube amp. There is an online review of the SYS that says the SYS does a better job of not altering the input signal than the passive preamp in the Saga or Freya.


----------



## RCBinTN (Aug 8, 2019)

GraveNoX said:


> Bought HD800 today and listened for 5 hours straight, had a brief listening to HD700 and not actually liked them, bought HD800 just because everyone has them and was very curious what was the fuzz about them. I hated this brand for so long, I thought it was just plastic for kids.
> These are the first headphones that can keep with the rhythm of the music and not be bored after a while. Noticed the speed improvement right away but in the first hour didn't like them because it sounds just like a dynamic driver and it has almost  same timbre as my JBL LSR305 when EQed with Sonarworks Reference 4 so I was expecting another signature, but the improvement in clarity is obvious that I didn't cared anymore if it's the same timbre.
> I use them without EQ, I don't find stock sound troublesome, actually they are less picky than DT1990 I have. I prefer Mojo with DT1990 because of this.
> Tried three EQs from metal571 video and it's a little better: 2dB Q0.6 at 60hz, 3dB Q1.41 at 2khz, 2dB Q2 at 12khz.
> ...


Wow, what a post! Seems to me you're on a great path, and a lot of interesting comparisons right there.
I suspect the more you listen to HD800, the more you'll like them. That was my experience and still continues.
One thing that David wrote, in his review, was the speed of HD800 sound decay was just right, to keep the music neutral and never muddy.
I didn't write that as well as David did, but I get the concept.


----------



## sup27606

This thing rocks with the SMSL SA50 $50 speaker amp. I have never enjoyed them so much before. Wonderful bass slam and treble that’s not harsh. I also implemented the resistor network suggested in Rob Robinette’s site. So there is zero background noise.


----------



## Kukuk

After having put some more time on these, I have a more solid opinion.

I absolutely adore them, and I understand 100% the nearly universal praise for them throughout the years. The sense of space they convey is really something to behold. I'm not going to say it's far and away better than my other headphones, but there's a certainly quality it has that makes them different from the others. If I had to nitpick them in this regard, it's that, to me, the whole sound seems to come from above your head. My Hifiman HE-500s, by contrast, stick you right in the middle of it. They're pretty similar in the size of the soundstage, it just seems the HD800 is shifted above you more. I'm not confident in saying this as a universal fact of the headphone, but paired with my own noodle this is the impression I get.

That little bright spot people complain about is starting to be more apparent to me, but it really seems to only come out with specific music. A good 95% of my music is very laid back and pleasant through these. I can imagine the amount of people scared off by the claims of these being too bright being pretty high, and that's a damned shame.

The bass presence of the headphone comes as somewhat of a surprise to me. I could tell it would be well-extended from the frequency response graphs, but I was a little taken aback by the impact and speed. I think they lean a little more toward the energetic side, so the bass translates well to a lot of music. They aren't up to par with the HE-500 in this regard, but I would say they're about the level of the LCD-2C.

Interestingly, I still don't find these to be the most detailed headphone I've heard. That crown still goes to my Sony MDR-CD900STs. The more headphones I hear, the more my opinion on that headphone changes. It still sounds great, no doubt, but it's being pushed further and further into the clinical and sterile end of the spectrum. The HD800, I feel, lands somewhere in the middle of musical and clinical. It's detailed, and neutral, and hits every technical expectation, but I feel if Sennheiser really wanted to make the most detailed headphone on the planet, they would have. I feel they pulled back from that goal in the pursuit of musicality, which was wise.

As for overall enjoyment versus my HE-500, I would still reach for the Hifiman if pressed. It's a little more forgiving, and has a little more bass energy, while having a soundstage that seems to integrate the listener into the music a little better. Thankfully, I don't have to choose between the two, and can live happily ever after with both.


----------



## johnjen

One thing to keep in mind is, the 800's will present the signal fed to them, with precision.
In all ways.
Soundstage, presence, FR, bass impact, etc, etc.

They aren't perfect but they do act like highly resolving mirrors to the upstream gear.

Said another way, the synergy of the upstream gear may be more of an influence to the overall SQ than what is attributed to the 800's themselves.

And the picking of nits IS what the 800's are really good at.

Just say'n is all.

JJ


----------



## Maxx134

protoss said:


> Here's my DIY
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see. My mod is in the RED.



Many younger listeners like the tamed upper frequency sound.

You can get a very tamed neutral effect by combining the felt liner with a SDR insert.

Yet, when using both those together, the trebles *and soundstage *suffers dramatically .

That's why I suggest using only the Sennheiser foam insert I mentioned earlier, as a solution.


----------



## Kukuk

johnjen said:


> One thing to keep in mind is, the 800's will present the signal fed to them, with precision.
> In all ways.
> Soundstage, presence, FR, bass impact, etc, etc.
> 
> ...



I find that most people *vastly* overstate the changes in sound quality moving from one amp or DAC to another. Even between my TA-ZH1ES and my WA2, amps that have polar opposite design philosophies behind them, I hear _maybe_ a 10% difference between them. Between the Sony and my Marantz HD-DAC1, it's more like 0%.


----------



## gLer

Kukuk said:


> I find that most people *vastly* overstate the changes in sound quality moving from one amp or DAC to another. Even between my TA-ZH1ES and my WA2, amps that have polar opposite design philosophies behind them, I hear _maybe_ a 10% difference between them. Between the Sony and my Marantz HD-DAC1, it's more like 0%.


This is SUCH an important point, and something you learn fairly quickly in this hobby (if you care to listen and compare). There are exceptions, like SS va tube (and different types of tubes), but on the whole you’re absolutely correct. The differences if any are mainly in the amp sections; differences are small if insignificant between most (good, well designed) dacs.


----------



## Got the Shakes

Does such a thing as an extension exist for the HD 800 cable? I’ve added something to my setup and I need about 3 more feet of length, but I don’t want to spend the money on having a custom cable made.

I guess while I’m at it, it I can’t do an extension where is the best place to have a cable made for a relatively decent price and not lose out on sound quality?


----------



## JaZZ (Aug 21, 2019)

Got the Shakes said:


> Does such a thing as an extension exist for the HD 800 cable? I’ve added something to my setup and I need about 3 more feet of length, but I don’t want to spend the money on having a custom cable made.
> 
> I guess while I’m at it, it I can’t do an extension where is the best place to have a cable made for a relatively decent price and not lose out on sound quality?


Grado extension cable for $40? It will certainly degrade sound quality to some degree, depending on how sensitive you are to cable sound. Maybe something like this would be the better deal (of course in adequate length if you can find it).


----------



## JamieMcC

Got the Shakes said:


> Does such a thing as an extension exist for the HD 800 cable? I’ve added something to my setup and I need about 3 more feet of length, but I don’t want to spend the money on having a custom cable made.
> 
> I guess while I’m at it, it I can’t do an extension where is the best place to have a cable made for a relatively decent price and not lose out on sound quality?



Give Tom "Paladin79" a pm here on headfi he runs Cables for less in Indiana they do mostly commercial networking stuff but I do know they have done headphone cables in the past. 

He will probably recommend some Mogami or Belden star quad microphone cable which is inexpensive and high quality commercial grade cable its what you will find the majority of professional recording studios use for hooking up their microphones. I replaced my original hd800 cable with this and it sounds better than the stock cable to me. 

Or just look on ebay search "mogami headphone extension" you will get lots of hits like the one below different lengths colours etc 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mogami-2...119429?hash=item567ec66805:g:~8sAAOSwbdpWVQuA


----------



## robo24

Anyone aware of any online stores still selling these new? I realize they were discontinued over a year ago, but they still had them at the SF Sennheiser store a couple months ago, though not sure if they were actually for sale.


----------



## RCBinTN

I googled 'em a couple months ago, and there were some sellers offering new HD800 at around US$1,500. They won't last ... better jump now!


----------



## yates7592 (Sep 6, 2019)

robo24 said:


> Anyone aware of any online stores still selling these new? I realize they were discontinued over a year ago, but they still had them at the SF Sennheiser store a couple months ago, though not sure if they were actually for sale.



Alza in Czech Republic have a pair. Says last pair but that's what it said when I bought mine from there a few months back. They obviously have a small stock left. I was sceptical that they would be brand new and not a return or demo pair. But they were absolutely mint with 53xxx serial number (or 503xx I can't quite remember without checking).


----------



## treebug

yates7592 said:


> Alza in Czech Republic have a pair. Says last pair but that's what it said when I bought mine from there a few months back. They obviously have a small stock left. I was sceptical that they would be brand new and not a return or demo pair. But they were absolutely mint with 53xxx serial number (or 503xx I can't quite remember without checking).



Did yours come with all the original Sennheiser packaging and contents?


----------



## yates7592

treebug said:


> Did yours come with all the original Sennheiser packaging and contents?



Yes everything original including the USB stick.


----------



## protoss (Sep 9, 2019)

I am assuming the offical unit # for HD800 is around #50,000 units ?

Thats a bloody success for Sennhesier! These guys will be here for another 70 years it looks like.

If the calulations are right with discounts and bulks deals. They must of made around $750,000,000 dollars from the HD800 alone.


----------



## 340519

Kukuk said:


> I find that most people *vastly* overstate the changes in sound quality moving from one amp or DAC to another. Even between my TA-ZH1ES and my WA2, amps that have polar opposite design philosophies behind them, I hear _maybe_ a 10% difference between them. Between the Sony and my Marantz HD-DAC1, it's more like 0%.


Yeah, I can't tell any difference between the Benchmark dac1 or dac2.


----------



## 340519

Maxx134 said:


> Many younger listeners like the tamed upper frequency sound.
> 
> You can get a very tamed neutral effect by combining the felt liner with a SDR insert.
> 
> ...


Interesting point. I'm 43 and overall I prefer the non-tamed 800 over the S.


----------



## Rayzilla

dmdm said:


> Interesting point. I'm 43 and overall I prefer the non-tamed 800 over the S.


Same here and I'm even older than you.


----------



## 340519

Maybe it's hearing damage and my little bit of tinnitus rolled in there as well.


----------



## protoss

dmdm said:


> I prefer the non-tamed 800 over the S



The Original HD800 is way better on so many levels compare to the S version

People keep on forgetting that a $10 mod makes the original an HD800S with the same levels of the orignal frequency still. So its a win win for the original on many grounds.


----------



## MacedonianHero

protoss said:


> The Original HD800 is way better on so many levels compare to the S version
> 
> People keep on forgetting that a $10 mod makes the original an HD800S with the same levels of the orignal frequency still. So its a win win for the original on many grounds.



I don't get this...they are basically identically sounding (and measuring headphones) without the obvious 6kHz peak/flaw/colouration in the originals...which is why Sennheiser discontinued them.


----------



## protoss

MacedonianHero said:


> I don't get this...they are basically identically sounding (and measuring headphones) without the obvious 6kHz peak/flaw/colouration in the originals...which is why Sennheiser discontinued them.



You think they discontuine it because of those things you listed? Or that they sold #50,000 units of it? 

2nd thing is I am surprise you think that the original and "S" sounds the same? The "S" sounded veiled? Well to me it did. And it lost the orginal frequency richness of it. The soundstage was also somewhat smaller and detail was tamed also.


----------



## MacedonianHero (Sep 20, 2019)

protoss said:


> You think they discontuine it because of those things you listed? Or that they sold #50,000 units of it?
> 
> 2nd thing is I am surprise you think that the original and "S" sounds the same? The "S" sounded veiled? Well to me it did. And it lost the orginal frequency richness of it. The soundstage was also somewhat smaller and detail was tamed also.



If they kept selling, they certainly would NOT have discontinued them. Sennheiser is in business to make money. Sorry, I don't understand why they'd stop at 50,000 just because. The lack of a serious flaw at 6kHz does not make the S veiled...rather it made the original peaky/fatiguing. Measurements made by Jude a while ago on his killer setup showed that was the only measured difference (just as Sennheiser stated as well). I'm happy you enjoy the originals...please continue to enjoy them, just that so many of us didn't when the S version came around.

IME, they both are pretty much the exact same headphone except for the obvious flaw in the originals. If you built a coloured setup around the originals that somewhat "hid" this flaw, then I would suggest you give the HD800S a try on a more balanced setup.


----------



## donlin

MacedonianHero said:


> If they kept selling, they certainly would NOT have discontinued them. Sennheiser is in business to make money. Sorry, I don't understand why they'd stop at 50,000 just because. The lack of a serious flaw at 6kHz does not make the S veiled...rather it made the original peaky/fatiguing. Measurements made by Jude a while ago on his killer setup showed that was the only measured difference (just as Sennheiser stated as well). I'm happy you enjoy the peak...please continue to enjoy it, just that so many of us didn't.
> 
> IME, they both are pretty much the exact same headphone except for the obvious flaw in the originals. If you built a coloured setup around the originals that somewhat "hid" this flaw, then I would suggest you give the HD800S a try on a more balanced setup.


Exactly right.


----------



## protoss (Sep 21, 2019)

MacedonianHero said:


> If they kept selling, they certainly would NOT have discontinued them



Agree to disagree, your main beef is with the 6k peak I notice. Everything else like you mention is the same.

For me the 6k peak never bother me. And for the other 50k + people. I am also surprise for you to question a decade old flagship headphone that should last forever to say the least?
So the question is, what is a real (not talking about the HD600/HD650) flagship that should or can last over a decade? Come on buddy this is far fetch? The mighty R10 didnt last a decade? The Gods, Omega and Orpheus didnt last a decade? Most legends barely hit 1000 units. And again with your logic to put it kindly, the R10, L3000, He90 and the Omega all sucks because they were all discontinue and couldn't sell?

One of my favorite headphone of all time the Stax SR-007MK1 and I believe Sprizter and Jude here also, lasted 1997 to 2007. So, than with your logic MK1 suck because it was discontinue in 2007 and the 007MK2 took its place? So in theory its better right? Lol please.... 

And if I am correct isnt Stax SR-009 discontinue or on the verge of being discontinued? Its currently at #5000 units. Compare to #50,000 units of the HD800 (2009-2019). So, I am assuming you will say the 009 sucks because the 009S Is now better?

Its not about if a headphone can sell. Its about that "decade" number overall I notice. We should all be happy and joyful that a headphone can even last a full decade at least.

Stax Omega lasted 3 years..... close to 0.001% of the population will never get to hear this. Only #600 units or less

Owell.


----------



## johnjen (Sep 21, 2019)

And to add to this…
This listener fatigue issue revolves around the myth that the 6KHz peak is the culprit.
It has been indirectly pointed at in private conversations with Senn engineers, that this is not the source of this 'problem'.

Rather it's the amount of overshoot on the leading edge which is the source, and is not strictly a frequency domain related situation.
They deliberately designed in a considerable amount of overshoot to help them sell, since the initial listening impression convinces mostly older buyers (who are more financially enabled), with a seemingly more detailed and 'lively' top end, at least initially.

I call this the Bose effect, where the initial listening impressions seem most impressive, enough so to make the purchase, which is the point of a manufacturer, to make products that will sell.
This is marketing 'steering' the design to marked degree, one that is 'good' for the bottom line, but certainly isn't an example of the 'best' (in terms of SQ) that they are capable of producing.

Sennheiser has the technology and experience and capability to design and manufacture HPs with exquisite SQ.
And when this overshoot is ameliorated, the exquisite SQ these HP's are capable of, comes to the fore all the more.
But they are, as was pointed out above, in the business to make money, not to 'cater' to audiophools engaged in a hobby.

And as long as us customers don't 'challenge' their assumptions, and no one provides a 'real' solution to this situation, they have little motivation to 'fix' this issue.
After all they know from experience what it takes to sell what they design and produce.

And maintaining the 6KHz myth just proves to them we will 'put up with it' so to speak.

And the fact that they utilized a Helmholtz resonator to address a problem that really isn't at the heart of this listener fatigue issue, just proves the point all the more.
As in, putting an acoustic 'dampener' between the driver and our ears is, in my estimation, a decided step backwards if exquisite SQ is the goal.

And as I wrote previously, 'we don't want the sizzle, we want the steak'.

JJ


----------



## gLer

Bottom line is this, if you’ve built a system around the HD800 - which is very amp specific - you don’t need an HD800S. I have the HD800 and heard the HD800S several time in my system and there’s absolutely no advantage to ‘sidegrading’. That said if you started off with an HD800S and built a system around that, you’re not going to get any perceptible benefit sidegrading to the original. Unless you need that extra band of higher frequencies and want to push the bass a bit more with EQ, which the original does better than the S. Both camps should be happy and allies, not enemies


----------



## J Mirra

Both the 800 and 800s thread have beef about the two variants.
All I know is my 800 are the best headphones I have heard for my preference, if that does not align with others choices it does not matter as they are on my head and they are not listening to what I am.
If the S or any other model / brand is perfect for you then that is all that matters.
Forget the hate and feel the positive vibes from the frequencies of your favorite cans.


----------



## 340519

MacedonianHero said:


> If they kept selling, they certainly would NOT have discontinued them. Sennheiser is in business to make money. Sorry, I don't understand why they'd stop at 50,000 just because. The lack of a serious flaw at 6kHz does not make the S veiled...rather it made the original peaky/fatiguing. Measurements made by Jude a while ago on his killer setup showed that was the only measured difference (just as Sennheiser stated as well). I'm happy you enjoy the originals...please continue to enjoy them, just that so many of us didn't when the S version came around.
> 
> IME, they both are pretty much the exact same headphone except for the obvious flaw in the originals. If you built a coloured setup around the originals that somewhat "hid" this flaw, then I would suggest you give the HD800S a try on a more balanced setup.


That's why I have them both.


----------



## 340519

protoss said:


> Agree to disagree, your main beef is with the 6k peak I notice. Everything else like you mention is the same.
> 
> For me the 6k peak never bother me. And for the other 50k + people. I am also surprise for you to question a decade old flagship headphone that should last forever to say the least?
> So the question is, what is a real (not talking about the HD600/HD650) flagship that should or can last over a decade? Come on buddy this is far fetch? The mighty R10 didnt last a decade? The Gods, Omega and Orpheus didnt last a decade? Most legends barely hit 1000 units. And again with your logic to put it kindly, the R10, L3000, He90 and the Omega all sucks because they were all discontinue and couldn't sell?
> ...


Excellent post.


----------



## 340519

J Mirra said:


> Both the 800 and 800s thread have beef about the two variants.
> All I know is my 800 are the best headphones I have heard for my preference, if that does not align with others choices it does not matter as they are on my head and they are not listening to what I am.
> If the S or any other model / brand is perfect for you then that is all that matters.
> Forget the hate and feel the positive vibes from the frequencies of your favorite cans.


Absolutely.


----------



## 340519 (Sep 21, 2019)

johnjen said:


> And to add to this…
> This listener fatigue issue revolves around the myth that the 6KHz peak is the culprit.
> It has been indirectly pointed at in private conversations with Senn engineers, that this is not the source of this 'problem'.
> 
> ...


Well the 800 is the best sounding pair of headphone I've ever heard and I have been involved with high-end audio for over 30 years. So whatever it is that you speak of does not impact the final blissful result.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

protoss said:


> Agree to disagree, your main beef is with the 6k peak I notice. Everything else like you mention is the same.
> 
> For me the 6k peak never bother me. And for the other 50k + people. I am also surprise for you to question a decade old flagship headphone that should last forever to say the least?
> So the question is, what is a real (not talking about the HD600/HD650) flagship that should or can last over a decade? Come on buddy this is far fetch? The mighty R10 didnt last a decade? The Gods, Omega and Orpheus didnt last a decade? Most legends barely hit 1000 units. And again with your logic to put it kindly, the R10, L3000, He90 and the Omega all sucks because they were all discontinue and couldn't sell?
> ...



You have a reading comprehension issue. He clearly never said anything about either model sucking! He said they’re essentially the same except for the 6K peak, which they are! He also said you can prefer either one. But preferring one over the other DOESN’T mean the other one sucks.

Can you not even recognize your own confirmation bias? He was defending the S, not attacking the original 800.  YOU’RE the one doing the trashing and attacking!


----------



## MacedonianHero (Sep 21, 2019)

protoss said:


> Agree to disagree, your main beef is with the 6k peak I notice. Everything else like you mention is the same.
> 
> For me the 6k peak never bother me. And for the other 50k + people. I am also surprise for you to question a decade old flagship headphone that should last forever to say the least?
> So the question is, what is a real (not talking about the HD600/HD650) flagship that should or can last over a decade? Come on buddy this is far fetch? The mighty R10 didnt last a decade? The Gods, Omega and Orpheus didnt last a decade? Most legends barely hit 1000 units. And again with your logic to put it kindly, the R10, L3000, He90 and the Omega all sucks because they were all discontinue and couldn't sell?
> ...



The 6kHz peak is still a colouration whether it "bothers" you or not. It is not in the source music and that is my main issue with them. Having to purchase flawed amps that roll off the treble to account for this isn't ideal either as so many HD800 owners have done in the past (generally speaking). I don't understand why you keep brining up the number sold? I'm with you as a fan of these headphones, but I do realize that they had one serious flaw that thankfully were rectified in the S version with the Helmholtz resonator. While you mention the SR-009, you can't compare e-stats to regular headphones as the investment is VERY significant over a pair of $1300 dynamic headphones. First off, when they were released (and for a very good number of years), the SR-009s cost $5499 US PLUS you'd have to invent an equal amount in a dedicated headphone amplifier to get to hear them close to their very best. So we are talking about almost a 10X price increase. So your 5000 vs 50,000 unit comparison is roughly in the same ballpark when we factor in price.

And with regards to the SR-007 MK1 (I used to own them too), they were BETTER than the newer MK2, why....let me tell you....*the SR-007 MK2 had a treble peak (among other issues), that the originals did not. See a trend here?  *I never stated the S was better because it was released later, but that it did not have the treble peak, flaw, colouration of the original and were discontinued because the S version's sales had eclipsed the original because of that flaw that introduced a much higher emphasis on instruments in the 6kHz range that WAS NOT IN THE SOURCE MATERIAL. Thus the lack in transparency; the SR-007 did that in reverse.

Please do not read things into my comments that I never inferred...it's rather frustrating to argue against a straw man. I would gladly state the opposite if the S had the peak and the originals did not (like the SR-007).


----------



## donlin

Hifiearspeakers said:


> You have a reading comprehension issue. He clearly never said anything about either model sucking! He said they’re essentially the same except for the 6K peak, which they are! He also said you can prefer either one. But preferring one over the other DOESN’T mean the other one sucks.
> 
> Can you not even recognize your own confirmation bias? He was defending the S, not attacking the original 800.  YOU’RE the one doing the trashing and attacking!


Well said, I was thinking the guy must have a reading comprehension problem as well.


----------



## MacedonianHero (Sep 21, 2019)

donlin said:


> Well said, I was thinking the guy must have a reading comprehension problem as well.



Throw in a straw man here and there, and it makes things quite frustrating. Everything Hifiearsspeakers said, I agree with 100%.


----------



## MacedonianHero (Sep 21, 2019)

Hifiearspeakers said:


> You have a reading comprehension issue. He clearly never said anything about either model sucking! He said they’re essentially the same except for the 6K peak, which they are! He also said you can prefer either one. But preferring one over the other DOESN’T mean the other one sucks.
> 
> Can you not even recognize your own confirmation bias? He was defending the S, not attacking the original 800.  YOU’RE the one doing the trashing and attacking!



I bought and owned the HD800 before about 7 years before this member even joined Head-Fi and I very happily owned them for about just about 7 years in fact...,but the 6kHz peak was an issue that was identified pretty much right from their release. My good friend Skylab was one of the first to really chime in as he got his pair pretty much from the outset. Subsequent measurements by many different folks over the past decade backed this up. Again, that's not to say that we didn't enjoy them, but that we weren't looking at them with rosy coloured glasses either. Then the S version came out and fixed this commonly mentioned complaint/flaw; so many of us jumped on this new version. That was my entire point to the original post by this member claiming the HD800 were superior...which they clearly are not from a transparency, performance and quantitative point of view. Taste however is entirely something else which I can totally accept...anyone can prefer anything as there is no accounting for personal tastes and preferences.


----------



## gLer

Not sure why we’re all rehashing this stuff. I’m sure HD800/HD800S owners are intimately familiar with the strengths, weaknesses and quirks of their headphones by now.

As for the 6kHz peak, the $15 SDR mod eliminated that for me, without messing with the bass. The 800S changes more than just the peak; some like the changes, others don’t, but to say the 800S is universally accepted as a ‘better’ HD800 just isn’t the case.


----------



## Maxx134 (Sep 21, 2019)

protoss said:


> People keep on forgetting that a $10 mod makes the original an HD800S with the same levels of the orignal frequency still. So its a win win for the original on many grounds.


Just like to point out a clarification please..

The $10 (SD) mod insert will *not* give you an 800S...
It _will_ give you a nicer,  _more neutral sounding_ 800 with subdued 6k resonance peak...

For making your 800 sound similar to an 800"S", with all the benefits of the 800, you need simply *ThIs Mod.. * insert instead.

Ofcourse, the first option is less expensive, but cost for both so low it is irrelevant.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Maxx134 said:


> Just like to point out a clarification please..
> 
> The $10 (SD) mod insert will *not* give you an 800S...
> It _will_ give you a nicer,  _more neutral sounding_ 800 with subdued 6k resonance peak...
> ...



But there are some resonances still in that range that are only ideally eliminated by the Helmholtz resonator. But I have heard a few mods that also were an improvement over the stock HD800.


----------



## protoss

@Hifiearspeakers @donlin

Of course I have a confirmation bias, silly.
Same with you all. You two are basically cheerleaders. You both have nothing to add but passive biases here too silly.

Welcome to original HD800 the best of it all.

Get that pom pom ready


----------



## protoss

MacedonianHero said:


> The 6kHz peak is still a colouration whether it "bothers" you or not. It is not in the source music and that is my main issue with them. Having to purchase flawed amps that roll off the treble to account for this isn't ideal either as so many HD800 owners have done in the past (generally speaking). I don't understand why you keep brining up the number sold? I'm with you as a fan of these headphones, but I do realize that they had one serious flaw that thankfully were rectified in the S version with the Helmholtz resonator. While you mention the SR-009, you can't compare e-stats to regular headphones as the investment is VERY significant over a pair of $1300 dynamic headphones. First off, when they were released (and for a very good number of years), the SR-009s cost $5499 US PLUS you'd have to invent an equal amount in a dedicated headphone amplifier to get to hear them close to their very best. So we are talking about almost a 10X price increase. So your 5000 vs 50,000 unit comparison is roughly in the same ballpark when we factor in price.
> 
> And with regards to the SR-007 MK1 (I used to own them too), they were BETTER than the newer MK2, why....let me tell you....*the SR-007 MK2 had a treble peak (among other issues), that the originals did not. See a trend here?  *I never stated the S was better because it was released later, but that it did not have the treble peak, flaw, colouration of the original and were discontinued because the S version's sales had eclipsed the original because of that flaw that introduced a much higher emphasis on instruments in the 6kHz range that WAS NOT IN THE SOURCE MATERIAL. Thus the lack in transparency; the SR-007 did that in reverse.
> 
> Please do not read things into my comments that I never inferred...it's rather frustrating to argue against a straw man. I would gladly state the opposite if the S had the peak and the originals did not (like the SR-007).



You know what's funny. My "quote" with my name defines I am a fan of coloration and it's an indication of what a endgame needs to be on endgame levels. 

The HD800 6k peak is flaw. Sure. Just like every other headphone has a flaw. Certain amp accentuate that peak greatly sadly. But others clearly dosnt and reduces it. You have to mention this also if not. Well I already know the answer because everyone is bias. 

Now if it reduces it, than that 6K peak is clearly isn't a problem than right. But of course it's still there. But won't affect the person at all with a good amplifier.

I posted this article hundreds of times to help people. https://www.headphoneer.com/hd800-amplifier-review/

Many ideas and which way to go to get a good amp to make the HD800 shine. Of course it's not the ultimate list but a very good one on it's own.

I bought up the sold number to make a point that the hd800 is a successful headphone. Yes, it is. It's a success. And you attack it by saying why did they stop at 50k? And I was like lol What. That's the reason. 

Back to 6k I do not see the 6k peak as a serious flaw thou. I see it has a problem/flaw like I see utopia has a flaw or any Hifiman products that breaks on me aka flaw or LCD 2/3 drivers dying for the 100 times. Like seriously Audeze LCD drivers are one of the worst flawed design ever. These were serious flaws repeated over and over again untill the frazor drivers came out and than again dead driver.
What about schiit amiplfers destroying your headphone drivers? I consider this a horrendous serious flaw. How about Staxs 009 drivers dying? This is a bad flaw. I never seen 1 Hd800 driver died. And I never seen a company stop making a headphone because of a minor 6K peak issue.

Funny thing is I notice many headphones have 6k peaks. And you mention one of them MK2. But nothing sold 50k units without it being a serious consider flawed. 

Btw Hd800 release price was 2k not today's $1300. 009 release at $5.2k now today at 3.3k just to clarify.

And one last thing. You make it seem when the S" came out in 2016 the original was discontinue. Well it stayed until 2019. I talked to senny rep guy. He said, the S is for people that wants a warmer balance tone.  

Cheers.

Btw. Hard to notice by now. But I am a fan of both. Of course duh lol


----------



## MacedonianHero

protoss said:


> You know what's funny. My "quote" with my name defines I am a fan of coloration and it's an indication of what a endgame needs to be on endgame levels.
> 
> The HD800 6k peak is flaw. Sure. Just like every other headphone has a flaw. Certain amp accentuate that peak greatly sadly. But others clearly dosnt and reduces it. You have to mention this also if not. Well I already know the answer because everyone is bias.
> 
> ...



I hope you continue to enjoy your 6kHz flaw...I'l stick with transparency (and less headaches as a result).


----------



## protoss

Maxx134 said:


> Just like to point out a clarification please..
> 
> The $10 (SD) mod insert will *not* give you an 800S...
> It _will_ give you a nicer,  _more neutral sounding_ 800 with subdued 6k resonance peak...
> ...



Yes, I checked your modding techniques. Its very good. I recommend 

I also mod too lol.


----------



## protoss

MacedonianHero said:


> I hope you continue to enjoy your 6kHz flaw...I'l stick with transparency (and less headaches as a result).



Lol. I do have other headphones like you. But thanks. It dose not bother me lol

Cheers


----------



## MacedonianHero (Sep 21, 2019)

protoss said:


> Lol. I do have other headphones like you. But thanks. It dose not bother me lol
> 
> Cheers



If you look back here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-sennheiser-hd-800-the-first-listen-the-first-review.398829/

I remember paying $1399 US for my pair in 2010. Plus for the SR-009, let's not forget that you can't plug that into a regular headphone amplifier...and for these flagships, you're looking at a dedicated e-stat amp of around $5000-ish (or higher) on top of the $5500 for the headphones. So my ratio mentioned earlier still holds FWIW.


----------



## Ichos

Please remember that the SDR mod lowers the 6Khz peak but it's not very effective with the resonance that exists.
The resonator takes care far more better of the resonance and also lowers the 5KHz peak.
It's more effective.
I owned both headphones.
I liked the HD800S better , but still remains a colored headphone and the trade off for the excellent technical ability is the loss of natural tonality.
Some instruments and notes are artificially boosted.
At least for my ears.


----------



## Ichos

And this is a trade of all high end headphones.
It's a design flaw , in order to get more detail , better separation and huge stage you have to boost the high frequencies.
As a result tonality and decay suffers.


----------



## omniweltall (Sep 21, 2019)

protoss said:


> You know what's funny. My "quote" with my name defines I am a fan of coloration and it's an indication of what a endgame needs to be on endgame levels.
> 
> The HD800 6k peak is flaw. Sure. Just like every other headphone has a flaw. Certain amp accentuate that peak greatly sadly. But others clearly dosnt and reduces it. You have to mention this also if not. Well I already know the answer because everyone is bias.
> 
> ...


HD800 remains my top headphone today after having and trying a lot of headphones. I got mine new for $800. It's amazing how much technicalities you get for that price. Aftee all these years, expensive headphones today just give something different. My gears and I never had a problem with the peak.

There isn't much financial incentives for reviewers to hype the HD800 anymore. It's already there.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

protoss said:


> @Hifiearspeakers @donlin
> 
> Of course I have a confirmation bias, silly.
> Same with you all. You two are basically cheerleaders. You both have nothing to add but passive biases here too silly.
> ...



Once again, you just demonstrated your inability to read properly, because I didn’t cheerlead. My last post was simply a second attempt to explain what someone wrote to you. If you had the ability to comprehend what someone said, then my last post to you wouldn’t have been necessary, and neither would this one.


----------



## protoss (Sep 21, 2019)

Hifiearspeakers said:


> Once again, you just demonstrated your inability to read properly, because I didn’t cheerlead. My last post was simply a second attempt to explain what someone wrote to you. If you had the ability to comprehend what someone said, then my last post to you wouldn’t have been necessary, and neither would this one.



Useless post. Again. His post full of biases. You couldn't read it to help you cheerleader. I seen you gushing over the "S" you don't belong here cheerleader.


----------



## protoss

omniweltall said:


> There isn't much financial incentives for reviewers to hype the HD800 anymore. It's already there.



But we got to fend off the bias "S" lovers. Notice they are the ones that cause the most problems towards the original HD800.


----------



## Maxx134

Ichos said:


> Please remember that the SDR mod lowers the 6Khz peak but it's not very effective with the resonance that exists.
> The resonator takes care far more better of the resonance and also lowers the 5KHz peak.
> It's more effective.
> I owned both headphones.
> ...


I think you are pointing out the signature being more boosted in lowet spectrum for more "percieved" bass.
That is the 800S signature to me.
But..
When doing critical comparisons, regardless of the 6k resonance, the original 800 displays a "cleaner" reproduction from the mids down to bass, over the 800S.
I agree it's a trade off unless you go for third option of keeping the 800 with a "center mod" .


----------



## Ichos

I think that  HD800S is not boosted in the lower band.
But the lowered 5-6khz region makes the lower frequencies sound more full.
Frequency plots show that the 800 and 800S are exactly the same from the mids down to bass.


----------



## gLer

Ichos said:


> I think that  HD800S is not boosted in the lower band.
> But the lowered 5-6khz region makes the lower frequencies sound more full.
> Frequency plots show that the 800 and 800S are exactly the same from the mids down to bass.


The 800S definitely has something different going on in the bass, even if measurements are on par. It’s definitely less clear and/or more distorted in the bass than the 800, which takes to bass EQ very cleanly - at least in all the systems I’ve heard both on. That said it’s very subtle. If you already own an 800 - especially a centre modded 800 - I don’t really see the point of switching to the 800S. Unless you only listen to jazz, acoustic and classical music, rather buy a complementary headphone, because neither 800 or 800S are masters of all genres. But at what they do well, they have no equal, not for anywhere near the asking price anyway.


----------



## protoss (Sep 23, 2019)

The richness of the Original HD800 is by far one of the best you can own. Clear, tight, control with no distortion. Its not muddy or veil.

Not many realize it, but its an affordable Omega! I consider it a lite version of Omega.





Its also one of the greatest *modding cans* you can own next to the Fostex T50


----------



## tumpux

Is it the original pad of omega?


----------



## protoss (Sep 24, 2019)

tumpux said:


> Is it the original pad of omega?



Yes, worn out thou. It is 25 years old. Sadly it becomes like a pancake. Stiff and hard. Thank goodness Omega is a featherweight


----------



## 340519

protoss said:


> The richness of the Original HD800 is by far one of the best you can own. Clear, tight, control with no distortion. Its not muddy or veil.
> 
> Not many realize it, but its an affordable Omega! I consider it a lite version of Omega.
> 
> ...


Where did you get those colored rings?


----------



## protoss (Sep 24, 2019)

dmdm said:


> Where did you get those colored rings?



I did not get those colour rings. Its my paint job! I take apart HD800's and mod them, also paint them myself!

I used to own 6 HD800's . I know everything about them. From plastic to which sand paper to use and driver replacements etch...

So when a bunch of *cheerleaders* come here and talk about pathetic useless stuff that repeats the same ol' jargon. I will be here telling them to kick rocks!


----------



## RCBinTN

gLer said:


> Unless you only listen to jazz, acoustic and classical music, rather buy a complementary headphone, because neither 800 or 800S are masters of all genres. But at what they do well, they have no equal, not for anywhere near the asking price anyway.


With a bit of digital EQ via JRiver, that now stays nearly constant, maybe 1.0 dB up/down at 6KHz, I've yet to meet a music genre that doesn't play well on my HD800.
And, I listen to a fair amount of rock, electric blues, and metal thanks to great music suggestions from the Head-Fi community.
Of course, the HD800 really shine with acoustic, jazz and classical. They are just great all-rounder cans.
I do keep the LCD-4 around for when my inner bass head rears up calling for the Audez'e house sound, which happens less often these days


----------



## omniweltall (Sep 24, 2019)

Once EQ-ed, feel HD800's clean, tight, layered, impactful bass. Then it becomes a proper rock headphone!


----------



## gLer

RCBinTN said:


> With a bit of digital EQ via JRiver, that now stays nearly constant, maybe 1.0 dB up/down at 6KHz, I've yet to meet a music genre that doesn't play well on my HD800.
> And, I listen to a fair amount of rock, electric blues, and metal thanks to great music suggestions from the Head-Fi community.
> Of course, the HD800 really shine with acoustic, jazz and classical. They are just great all-rounder cans.
> I do keep the LCD-4 around for when my inner bass head rears up calling for the Audez'e house sound, which happens less often these days


Very true, and I was being quite general. Though I have the ZMF Auteur around for the self same reason. Helps that the Auteur was tuned using an HD800 and Audio-gd amp, both of which I also have in my stable.


----------



## RCBinTN

omniweltall said:


> Once EQ-ed, feel HD800's clean, tight, layered, impactful bass. Then it becomes a rock headphone!


I fully agree. Folks rave about the HD800 midrange, which is very justified, but the bass is also excellent. Tight, deep & fast, but not too fast ... it sounds real, to me.
I also think, since we're glowing about our own headphones here, that the HD800 have very realistic transitions, meaning mid-bass and mids-to-treble.



gLer said:


> Very true, and I was being quite general. Though I have the ZMF Auteur around for the self same reason. Helps that the Auteur was tuned using an HD800 and Audio-gd amp, both of which I also have in my stable.


I am becoming more interested in ZMF headphones all the time. Zach and Bev are doing some great work


----------



## omniweltall (Sep 24, 2019)

RCBinTN said:


> I fully agree. Folks rave about the HD800 midrange, which is very justified, but the bass is also excellent. Tight, deep & fast, but not too fast ... it sounds real, to me.
> I also think, since we're glowing about our own headphones here, that the HD800 have very realistic transitions, meaning mid-bass and mids-to-treble.
> 
> 
> I am becoming more interested in ZMF headphones all the time. Zach and Bev are doing some great work


Give the auteur a try. It is like the middleground of HD800 & HD600, and add a bit of romance. It is the best vocal headphone ever and the bass is amazing, even better than the HD800. But it loses in detail, imaging and stage size. Overall not as technically competent.

Careful with the pads though. I don't like both stock pads. Try the perforated lambskin universe or verite pads.


----------



## 340519

protoss said:


> I did not get those colour rings. Its my paint job! I take apart HD800's and mod them, also paint them myself!
> 
> I used to own 6 HD800's . I know everything about them. From plastic to which sand paper to use and driver replacements etch...
> 
> So when a bunch of *cheerleaders* come here and talk about pathetic useless stuff that repeats the same ol' jargon. I will be here telling them to kick rocks!


Awesome good job!


----------



## Maxx134

RCBinTN said:


> I am becoming more interested in ZMF headphones all the time. Zach and Bev are doing some great


They would be the best closed headphone company except IMO Denon recently took that spot with the 9200.


----------



## treebug

Maxx134 said:


> They would be the best closed headphone company except IMO Denon recently took that spot with the 9200.



Agreed. I have the Denon 9200 and the HD800. I found that the Denon matches it with it's huge, wide soundstage and surprisingly better detail retrieval. Amazing for a closed back. Just wish the pads were as large as the HD800! I was disappointed with the ZMF VO's.


----------



## Cho Worsh (May 15, 2021)

The HD800 sounds very contento with the Decware Taboo MK III amp but I finally came to the realization the HD800, with modification and cabling to ameliorate the harsh peak, presents the music in very spacious way that is great but too far apart from what music performed live sounds like to me and does not faithfully reproduce the timbre of unamplified acoustical musical instruments such as piano, violin and guitar well enough to hold my interest for very long.


----------



## Cho Worsh (Jul 19, 2022)

sup27606 said:


> This thing rocks with the SMSL SA50 $50 speaker amp. I have never enjoyed them so much before. Wonderful bass slam and treble that’s not harsh. I also implemented the resistor network suggested in Rob Robinette’s site. So there is zero background noise.


Updated: This amp sounded good (but has RFI issues) and then after a while it took out one of the drivers in my HD800. Not recommended for use with headphones.


----------



## robo24

Current recommendations for an OTL tube amp under about $750 which has good synergy with the HD 800 (and ideally an Atticus too)?


----------



## tumpux

Just want to share that I have spent a month playing zelda with an HD800.
When you play for hours you realized that HD800 is the most comfortable phone to use. It's so comfy, you don't want to take it off your head.


----------



## omniweltall

tumpux said:


> Just want to share that I have spent a month playing zelda with an HD800.
> When you play for hours you realized that HD800 is the most comfortable phone to use. It's so comfy, you don't want to take it off your head.


It really is very comfy. So light and evenly distributed.


----------



## tumpux

This ergonomic factor still unbeatable by other headphones in current market.

Oh, I think it's time for me to replace the earpad.


----------



## whirlwind

robo24 said:


> Current recommendations for an OTL tube amp under about $750 which has good synergy with the HD 800 (and ideally an Atticus too)?



Do I ever...but the wait for one is getting pretty long.....GOTL in its basic form is about $750....but you can't be in a hurry.


----------



## robo24

whirlwind said:


> Do I ever...but the wait for one is getting pretty long.....GOTL in its basic form is about $750....but you can't be in a hurry.


Thanks! Maybe someday. Ended up getting a used Crack with Speedball. Will be interesting to see if I prefer it over the Woo WA7. No reason to keep both, I'd imagine.


----------



## Peti

The WA8 from Woo audio is insane with the HD800SDR. Mind you, after a 700$ tube upgrade this transportable amp/dac gets insanely close to the DNA Stratus I used to own (as far as I can tell from memory). But basically I get the same euphoric feeling when music is played back through my current rig as with the Stratus and SFD-1 tube dac.


----------



## gordec

Peti said:


> The WA8 from Woo audio is insane with the HD800SDR. Mind you, after a 700$ tube upgrade this transportable amp/dac gets insanely close to the DNA Stratus I used to own (as far as I can tell from memory). But basically I get the same euphoric feeling when music is played back through my current rig as with the Stratus and SFD-1 tube dac.


 
2nd that. WA8 is how I fell in love with HD800. Sold it, and got HD800s. It just doesn't feel the same as the original. Last week, I was able to get a mint pair of HD800. I don't think it's a huge difference to my ears with/without SDR. Just very good all around. This one stays for good.


----------



## BreadMaster

Any news about the upcoming Sennheiser flagship?


----------



## Peti

Huh? A new flagship is due from Sennheiser?? Did I miss something?


----------



## BreadMaster (Oct 23, 2019)

Peti said:


> Huh? A new flagship is due from Sennheiser?? Did I miss something?


yeah been the works for quite some time now and keeping a tight lipped about the exact release date... should be very soon.... so start saving people...


----------



## Thenewguy007

BreadMaster said:


> yeah been the works for quite some time now and keeping a tight lipped about the exact release date... should be very soon.... so start saving people...



Wasn't it revealed to be just the HD820?


----------



## BreadMaster

Thenewguy007 said:


> Wasn't it revealed to be just the HD820?


nah man, its rumored to be some planar tech that sennheiser is working on.


----------



## omniweltall

I will be rooting for Germany!


----------



## Fegefeuer

That planar rumor is old by now. Did any new rumours about it appear or is it the same old revival of the old rumour that happens every half a year?


----------



## gLer

How do you improve on perfection? Seriously, what are you going to make that’s so much better that’s not going to cost you 4 times what you can get an HD800 for today?


----------



## Fegefeuer (Oct 24, 2019)

Alright, it seems the patent has not been "disbanded" but refreshed from time to time or in the last 6 years and released last year in the US. It's gotten interesting
The first appearance of it was in 2013.

Here are a few pages of it for those that want to know where the rumour comes from:



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





Here's a redditor's attempt on interpreting it:



> Edit: Found the US version with PDF that is in english. It seems to be different and have a bar magnet with multiple N/S poles running along the side of the magnet as shown on Sheet 3 in the PDF.
> 
> Things of note on Page 2 in the PDF:
> 
> ...



https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/8w01ir/is_sennheiser_trying_to_patent_cylinder_magnets/


----------



## Yviena

How often do you guys switch the pads, and if you are do you notice any SQ difference with new pads vs 1-2 year old ones?


----------



## tumpux

It reminds me to change my pad. 
I saw one on adorama for 75 usd.


----------



## johnjen

I have changed mine every 1-1.5 years, but then I use them everyday and for hrs and hrs so they see lots of head time.

JJ


----------



## tumpux

Wow, where do you usually get the replacements pad from?
Trying to find other sources.


----------



## gLer

tumpux said:


> Wow, where do you usually get the replacements pad from?
> Trying to find other sources.


I got my last pair from Amazon, not OEM. Cost me about $25, and every bit as good as the original pads. Tip: keep the mounting rings from the original pads and replace the cheap third party rings with the originals.


----------



## johnjen

Or a quick ebay search…
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser...969986?hash=item3fa60030c2:g:i9QAAOSwKLVbVEpo

JJ


----------



## G0rt

I seem to have found my Happy Place(tm)


----------



## omniweltall

G0rt said:


> I seem to have found my Happy Place(tm)


Where did you get the headband, mate?

Been looking for it.


----------



## gLer

omniweltall said:


> Where did you get the headband, mate?
> 
> Been looking for it.


Or rather why did you get the headband? The HD800 is so friggin’ comfortable, I hardly even know it’s there when it’s on. Can wear it all day if I’m not careful!


----------



## Ojisan

Looks nice. Is it this one? Been looking for something like this but not a knit one. More for protection than comfort. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aud...ad-universal-fit-replacement-headband.621692/


----------



## G0rt

omniweltall said:


> Where did you get the headband, mate?
> 
> Been looking for it.



Those are from Turbulent Labs, actually designed for Beyers, but fit Senns fine.


----------



## G0rt

gLer said:


> Or rather why did you get the headband? The HD800 is so friggin’ comfortable, I hardly even know it’s there when it’s on. Can wear it all day if I’m not careful!



I appreciate Sennheiser engineering, and won't call any of my alterations unqualified 'improvements', but the Turbulent Labs headband does, for me, several useful things:

I expect it to last many, many years, ie, it's not a consumable.

It's thick enough that I can use the 800's at full extension, ie, no setup, and optimal, for me, clamping force.

It looks and feels fine, rather posh, actually.

It does add weight and expense, but not so much that I have to care.


----------



## treebug

G0rt said:


> I appreciate Sennheiser engineering, and won't call any of my alterations unqualified 'improvements', but the Turbulent Labs headband does, for me, several useful things:
> 
> I expect it to last many, many years, ie, it's not a consumable.
> 
> ...



As someone who doesn't have a lot of natural padding on top I find the HD800 headband starts to apply a little pressure during long sessions. Ok for short term though. Thanks for this, I'll have a look!


----------



## G0rt

treebug said:


> As someone who doesn't have a lot of natural padding on top I find the HD800 headband starts to apply a little pressure during long sessions. Ok for short term though. Thanks for this, I'll have a look!



Roger that, I have similar circumstances, and although I do like the light weight of the factory parts, the stock HD800/800S had a tendency to fall off if I wasn't careful how I moved. Never more.

The stock headband design also adds damping to the underlying metal, and it's possible that the additional mass of the Turbulent Labs wrapper could improve this, although I have no way to measure it.


----------



## G0rt

Ojisan said:


> Looks nice. Is it this one? Been looking for something like this but not a knit one. More for protection than comfort.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aud...ad-universal-fit-replacement-headband.621692/



I used something like that on an M50X, but the Turbulent Labs is beautiful and well-padded leather. Also works on 600 series (easier to fit if you slide it on from one side, after removing the stock foam.)


----------



## Ojisan

G0rt said:


> I used something like that on an M50X, but the Turbulent Labs is beautiful and well-padded leather. Also works on 600 series (easier to fit if you slide it on from one side, after removing the stock foam.)



Looks very nice! Purchased


----------



## treebug

Online store Alza is still showing stock of the original HD800. Tempted, but are they brand new and not refurbished units this late in the day?


----------



## yates7592

The set I received were definitely brand new. That was about 5 months ago from memory.


----------



## 340519

treebug said:


> Online store Alza is still showing stock of the original HD800. Tempted, but are they brand new and not refurbished units this late in the day?


Hey that's really cool. Love my pair.


----------



## 340519

How much are they in canadian dollars on that site?


----------



## treebug

dmdm said:


> How much are they in canadian dollars on that site?



Not sure about Canadian Dollars, but they're £1049 on the Alza UK site.


----------



## 491838

Anyone use the HD800 with EQ such as the oratory preset? Is it true that they lose quite a bit of detail? I'm kinda torn between these and the LCD 2 at the moment.


----------



## JaZZ

If you associate detail with treble intensity, yes it does lose some. But it's worth it.




 

That's just an estimated curve for an unmodified pair. My HD 800 is modified like this; the velvet dampens some more treble away, but it's just reflected sound waves that are eliminated.

I don't know the LCD-2 well enough to comment on it.


----------



## 491838

My experience is with mid-fi dynamics and those don't EQ very well. I mean yes, the tonality is more coherent, but the timbre turns to mush. There's a real loss of texture there. I'm actually not the kind of guy that thinks bright = detailed as I prefer neutral warm sound signatures.

Also, most dynamics don't react well to EQ-ed sub bass. The impact can't be increased via EQ.


----------



## 340519

Well fellas, I just received the hp8. I'll have some tube listening with the 800 and S tonight.


----------



## JaZZ (Nov 19, 2019)

Dealux said:


> My experience is with mid-fi dynamics and those don't EQ very well. I mean yes, the tonality is more coherent, but the timbre turns to mush. There's a real loss of texture there. I'm actually not the kind of guy that thinks bright = detailed as I prefer neutral warm sound signatures.
> 
> Also, most dynamics don't react well to EQ-ed sub bass. The impact can't be increased via EQ.


Impact is definitely increased with above shown sub-bass boost. I don't know how experienced you are with equalizing, but in my experience – admittedly only with high-quality headphones and IEMs – equalizing always improves the sound, often significantly. I never encountered any adverse effect, and my ambitions aren't low. The best explanation for negative experiences are either wrong compensation curves (instead of equalizing you've distorted the amplitude response even further) or distorting bass after bass boost (which means harmonic distortion is too high at large membrane excursions).


----------



## 340519

Ready to go.


----------



## Nik74

That was quick! Remember , it needs a bit of time and a good 12AX7 

Enjoy


----------



## 340519 (Nov 19, 2019)

Well it has more authority and spaciousness than the benchmark built in amp. The bass has more slam. The mid gain setting is very loud at 1/4 pot, but the high is recommended for the 800s. I'll have to try the 800S next.


----------



## 340519

Nik74 said:


> That was quick! Remember , it needs a bit of time and a good 12AX7
> 
> Enjoy


Which 12ax7 do you recommend?


----------



## Yviena

Correct me if in wrong but most you guys with SDR mod use the headphones without the dust covers right?
Are there any cons to removing the dust cover, i heard removing the dust cover brings better transients, and clarity but at the cost of 3D dimensionality


----------



## gLer

Yviena said:


> Correct me if in wrong but most you guys with SDR mod use the headphones without the dust covers right?
> Are there any cons to removing the dust cover, i heard removing the dust cover brings better transients, and clarity but at the cost of 3D dimensionality


No, I use the dust cover. It's important to keep the dust cover installed because it has sonic qualities along with protecting the drivers. Not sure why you'd remove them.


----------



## johnjen

And as a counterpoint…
I removed the dust covers many years back and see no reason to put them back.
The drivers are well protected against dust/dirt/debris all by themselves.

But then again my 800's are significantly modified and the dust covers would have an unwanted impact on the SQ I have achieved.
But then, I see and use my 800-Jmods as a research tool, one that will continue to be used to 'push the envelope', and not as a financial investment that needs to be 'protected'.
Which is my perspective, but certainly not everybody's.

JJ


----------



## Yviena

johnjen said:


> And as a counterpoint…
> I removed the dust covers many years back and see no reason to put them back.
> The drivers are well protected against dust/dirt/debris all by themselves.
> 
> ...



Would you recommend removing the dust covers on a stock HD800 with SDR mod, also is there anywhere i can read about your jmod for HD800?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I took of my HE-6 grills. Is the risk to those drivers as bad as the HD800?


----------



## johnjen (Nov 22, 2019)

Yviena said:


> Would you recommend removing the dust covers on a stock HD800 with SDR mod, also is there anywhere i can read about your jmod for HD800?


For me when I 1st began using 800's the first thing I did was to remove the dust covers, just to hear what the difference was.
If memory serves (this may be a stretch) there was an added veil with the dust covers in place.
It wasn't 'bad' but the SQ became less obscured with additional detail, especially in the acoustic space aspect of the music, without them.

I never used the SDR mod as it wasn't where I was going with my mods.
But I had tried just about every mod that was mentioned previous to them coming on the scene.
I developed the mod as I describe in my post, over the course of a couple of years, and I didn't want to make any additional changes until I had finished my experiments.
And by then I determined that the SDR was not addressing what I had found to be a much better solution.

As for my mods here is the link to my write up.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-diyrs-cookbook.781268/page-90#post-14608836
This link takes you to part 3 with links back to part 1 and 2.

If you have further questions about the mod feel free to ask.

JJ


----------



## 340519

So guys, the synergy between the stock 800 and the icon audio hp8 mk2 is downright incredible.  Highly recommended.


----------



## Nik74

dmdm said:


> So guys, the synergy between the stock 800 and the icon audio hp8 mk2 is downright incredible.  Highly recommended.



Glad you re enjoying it  Did you find it a lesser combo with the 800S?


----------



## 340519 (Nov 23, 2019)

Nik74 said:


> Glad you re enjoying it  Did you find it a lesser combo with the 800S?


 The S is okay but the 800 is great. I just like the original better. Everything sounds beautiful with the original. The S just sounds a little blah and veiled in comparison. I sit up and take notice when I listen to the 800.

I just want warmer tubes. I ordered the preferred series 12ax7 from the tube store. The guy I spoke with says that's their warmest tube.


----------



## Nik74

I think i finally have to try the 800 and compare to the 800S with my own ears.


----------



## 340519

Nik74 said:


> I think i finally have to try the 800 and compare to the 800S with my own ears.


I agree.


----------



## 340519

Hey guys, what is a good headphone for bass. I like the 800 of course but I'm craving more bass.


----------



## eeagle

dmdm said:


> Hey guys, what is a good headphone for bass. I like the 800 of course but I'm craving more bass.


You will likely want to go to a closed HP to satisfy a desire for more bass.
From experience i can recommend the Audeze LCD-XC
From reading the forums the Denon AH-D9200 is getting lots of love, and of course there is always Sennheisers own HD 820


----------



## G0rt

I satisfy my bass cravings with HD700.


----------



## JaZZ

dmdm said:


> Hey guys, what is a good headphone for bass. I like the 800 of course but I'm craving more bass.


That's easy: Turn the bass up! (See previous post.) I'm being serious: The HD 800 offers excellent bass, just needs some boost below ~100 Hz. No need for a different headphone if it's the only issue you have with it.


----------



## 340519

JaZZ said:


> That's easy: Turn the bass up! (See previous post.) I'm being serious: The HD 800 offers excellent bass, just needs some boost below ~100 Hz. No need for a different headphone if it's the only issue you have with it.


Thanks, I'll try eqing it up under 100hz.


----------



## 340519

I'm buying equalizer pro for my PC mow


----------



## 340519

Wow that eq trick really works. Thank you sir!


----------



## 340519 (Nov 23, 2019)

JaZZ said:


> That's easy: Turn the bass up! (See previous post.) I'm being serious: The HD 800 offers excellent bass, just needs some boost below ~100 Hz. No need for a different headphone if it's the only issue you have with it.


Yup, only issue. All is Perfect now. Wow the 800 and S have serious low end now!


----------



## 340519




----------



## 340519




----------



## JaZZ

Just +3.5 dB at 64 Hz would sound better, as this corresponds more to the effective drop-off. (No headphone shows such a step in the amplitude response.)

BTW, I use xnor's 31-band/⅓-octave graphic equalizer for _foobar2000_, which is free – and allows for an extension down to 20 Hz (I'm at +9 dB there).


----------



## 340519 (Nov 23, 2019)

I just paid 40 CAD for equalizer pro for the year so I'm good. I'm liking a 6db boost below 100hz. Sounds great.
Well, 6 to 12db boost.


----------



## johnjen

I have been using a parametric EQ that is built into Jriver and I add +12dB at 14Hz with a Q of 0.53.
I also reduce the overall playback level by -6dB so I don't digitally clip.

Of course I have my setup dialed so that I get subsonic (below 20Hz) response to percussive instruments and sound effects with delightful results.
800's can really deliver impressive bass from ≈ 12Hz and up that can be felt as concussive impacts in my body and in my head as well.

They can deliver bass with power, precision, articulation and impact if properly setup to do so.

JJ


----------



## 340519 (Nov 23, 2019)

I'm only using tidal so eq pro seemed to be the best choice. Overall I'm  liking +6 db at the 32 and 64 bands and the rest flat.


----------



## JamieMcC

Hi guys I'm looking for some replacement pads in UK/Europe for my hd800 any suggestions?


----------



## carapau

Today is Black Friday !


----------



## 340519

I just picked up a smsl thx 888 on black friday to pair with the 800 and S. Should be pretty cool.  It looks like a great amp.


----------



## 340519

JaZZ said:


> Just +3.5 dB at 64 Hz would sound better, as this corresponds more to the effective drop-off. (No headphone shows such a step in the amplitude response.)
> 
> BTW, I use xnor's 31-band/⅓-octave graphic equalizer for _foobar2000_, which is free – and allows for an extension down to 20 Hz (I'm at +9 dB there).


What eq for android off of google play would you recommend?


----------



## JaZZ

dmdm said:


> What eq for android off of google play would you recommend?


Sorry, I don't have a smartphone.


----------



## 340519

I use a computer to stream on one system but a tablet to the dac in another, that's why I ask about the android eq.


----------



## 340519

[/QUOTE]


JaZZ said:


> Just +3.5 dB at 64 Hz would sound better, as this corresponds more to the effective drop-off. (No headphone shows such a step in the amplitude response.)
> 
> BTW, I use xnor's 31-band/⅓-octave graphic equalizer for _foobar2000_, which is free – and allows for an extension down to 20 Hz (I'm at +9 dB there).


I'm playing  around with +1.5 db at 125hz, + 3db at 64hz, and +6 at 32hz. It sounds quite satisfying.


----------



## JaZZ

That looks passably plausible.


----------



## 340519

This is my favorite for mimicking my Golden Ear Triton Ones.


----------



## 340519




----------



## Ichos

dmdm said:


> What eq for android off of google play would you recommend?



Neutron player has a very good equalizer.


----------



## Maxx134 (Nov 30, 2019)

It seems common concensus, that with EQ manipulation, we can get the HD800 to sound more balanced and even impressive...

Here is a quick image search of the HD800:


They all show the recessed lower region,and the upper treble peak.

Also, the attenuation of the treble peak thru various existing means, does *NOT* solve the diffuse nature, stemming from the 6K ringing...

Now look at my unit.

At first glance it would look like EQ manipulation.

What the graph does not show:
**No EQ manipulation
** The elimination of 6k ring & diffuse sound.
** Larger image
**Greater depth of image.
** Clearer mids.
** More accurate sound over a Utopia and closer to a Susvara without the planar sound.
**A work in progress.
 

This is the future of the HD800.


----------



## omniweltall

Maxx134 said:


> It seems common concensus, that with EQ manipulation, we can get the HD800 to sound more balanced or even impressive...
> 
> Here is a quick image search of the HD800:
> 
> ...


I use SDR mod and passive inline filter to take care of the 6khz above up to the upper treble region.


----------



## Maxx134 (Nov 30, 2019)

omniweltall said:


> I use SDR mod and passive inline filter to take care of the 6khz above up to the upper treble region.


Yes this is a good choice and what is available currently.
I also have:
*Stock hd800
*SDR hd800
They are used as a reference points for me.
But still, they both still have and do not adress the diffuse nature, that is noted when comparison to other headphones.


----------



## omniweltall (Nov 30, 2019)

Maxx134 said:


> Yes this is a good choice and what is available currently.
> I also have:
> *Stock hd800
> *SDR hd800
> ...


These 2 combos (SDR+passive filter) calms down the HD800 while retaining the technicalities (detail and soundstage). So far, this is the best solution for me. Now, I prefer listening to it using SS amp, cause of more precise and tighter sound. Once you fix the HD800 tonality, to me, it sounds much more natural than planars like Hifiman.

I wish I can try your mod, Maxx.


----------



## JaZZ (Nov 30, 2019)

Maxx134 said:


> ...they both still have and do not adress the *diffuse nature*, that is noted when comparison to other headphones.


This is largely fixed by this modification, which also takes care for the 6 kHz peak to some degree. It's very clear that all bare surfaces inside the ear cup cause massive (multiple) reflections and have to be covered with absorbing materials. Do *not* use the various foams proposed by the _«Anaxilus mod»_, as they introduce other problems and have virtually no effect on the 6 kHz peak!

One further source of a hinted diffuseness is the steel mesh producing some specific (high-frequency) reflections meant to simulate an even wave front – which works to some degree. Elimimating them doesn't improve the HD 800 sound, though.

And BTW, for tuning the 6 kHz peak down equalizing is the better and more precise tool than the SDR mod. Not producing the 6 kHz excess is more plausible than eliminating it by hindsight. Note that it's just a resonator working with phase cancellation, thus the sound waves aren't prevented at the source (probably a resonance between membrane and magnet system). Good to know: If you manage to precisely equalize the peak to a flat response, the impulse response will also be improved accordingly.


----------



## 340519 (Dec 1, 2019)

Hey guys, I just ordered the audeze lcd xc to go with the smsl 888. Should be fantastic! I wanted to add a bass heavy high end can to my 800 and S.


----------



## Maxx134

JaZZ said:


> This is largely fixed by this modification, which also takes care for the 6 kHz peak to some degree. It's very clear that all bare surfaces inside the ear cup cause massive (multiple) reflections and have to be covered with absorbing materials. Do *not* use the various foams proposed by the _«Anaxilus mod»_, as they introduce other problems and have virtually no effect on the 6 kHz peak!
> 
> One further source of a hinted diffuseness is the steel mesh producing some specific (high-frequency) reflections meant to simulate an even wave front – which works to some degree. Elimimating them doesn't improve the HD 800 sound, though.
> 
> And BTW, for tuning the 6 kHz peak down equalizing is the better and more precise tool than the SDR mod. Not producing the 6 kHz excess is more plausible than eliminating it by hindsight. Note that it's just a resonator working with phase cancellation, thus the sound waves aren't prevented at the source (probably a resonance between membrane and magnet system). Good to know: If you manage to precisely equalize the peak to a flat response, the impulse response will also be improved accordingly.


That's great that you're specific absorbtion material works for you.

I chose to eliminate the resonance instead of absorbing it, With dynamat extreme as mentioned in my thread.

You can check CSD measurements to visually check for the ringing as well.


----------



## JaZZ

Maxx134 said:


> That's great that you're specific absorbtion material works for you.
> 
> I chose to eliminate the resonance instead of absorbing it, With dynamat extreme as mentioned in my thread.
> 
> You can check CSD measurements to visually check for the ringing as well.


We're talking of different things. I never considered resonances within the ear cup frame a real issue, but exclusively cared for its reflective surfaces. I see that your Dynamat mod at least offers some sound-absorbing effect around the driver, but obviously you don't care for the remaining bare surfaces. Instead you partly cover the steel mesh with a sound-absorbing mesh, something I avoided in the interest of the intended even-wave-front effect – which doesn't come without some detrimental effects, but I decided that the sound is better that way: more lifelike and airier. 

Well, my black-velvet mod also addresses frame resonances to some degree, even though that wasn't its actual purpose. I don't know Dynamat, but I guess it's just as little capable of fully «eliminating» resonances (if there's a significant amount of them – note that we're dealing with a competely open design!) as my damping mod will kill all reflections – it's just about a significant reduction. That said, my black-velvet mod (still) calls for equalizing, since it reduces treble energy. I've just been at your thread and noticed that you're proud of the fact that you have preserved the treble intensity in the interest of liveliness, whereas I for one am proud to have reduced it. That may sound strange at first glance, but note that the reduction exclusively consists of reflected sound waves! Which means better transient accuracy, less time smearing. Who wants near-field reflections!

BTW, _HE1000se_ and _Susvara_ are designed for even greater acoustic openness with minimal inner reflections – and it really pays off. With my damping mod I'm trying to get as close as possible to the acoustic-openness ideal, which the HD 800 designers also strove for, although with serious compromizes. And I'm not even trying to make the ear pads less sound permeable, I prefer to increase the low bass energy by equalizing.


----------



## protoss (Dec 2, 2019)

dmdm said:


> Hey guys, I just ordered the audeze lcd xc to go with the smsl 888. Should be fantastic! I wanted to add a bass heavy high end can to my 800 and S.



You just made a bad mistake.... The LCD-XC is one of the worst headphones ever. Sorry buddy. You should return asap.

Audeze ranking.
1. LCD-4/Z
2. LCD-X
3. LCD-3
4. LCD-MX4
5. LCD- 2/C


----------



## 340519 (Dec 2, 2019)

protoss said:


> You just made a bad mistake.... The LCD-XC is one of the worst headphones ever. Sorry buddy. You should return asap.
> 
> Audeze ranking.
> 1. LCD-4/Z
> ...


Okay interesting


----------



## 340519

protoss said:


> You just made a bad mistake.... The LCD-XC is one of the worst headphones ever. Sorry buddy. You should return asap.
> 
> Audeze ranking.
> 1. LCD-4/Z
> ...


It reviews extremely well including here on headfi. You're opinion is an anomaly.  In looking for bass.


----------



## protoss

dmdm said:


> looking for bass.



Bass? THX900 and other fostex headphones.

My opinion is not an anomaly on the XC. It is a really bad headphone. Will list it at like 86 out of 100 headphones. It is not good LOL!


----------



## 340519 (Dec 3, 2019)

protoss said:


> Bass? THX900 and other fostex headphones.
> 
> My opinion is not an anomaly on the XC. It is a really bad headphone. Will list it at like 86 out of 100 headphones. It is not good LOL!


Well I'm very much looking forward to listening to it. All of the reviews are great on headfi. And they look gorgeous.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/audeze-lcd-xc.16792/reviews

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/review-audeze-lcd-xc-personal-take

https://darko.audio/2014/01/audeze-lcd-xc-headphones-review/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...morrison/2013/11/03/audeze-lcd-xc-review/amp/

https://www.headphones.com/blogs/news/116663813-audeze-lcd-xc-headphone-review

https://headfonics.com/2014/10/the-lcd-xc-closed-planar-by-audeze/2/

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/audeze-lcd-xc-headphone

Yup, looks pretty good...


----------



## Maxx134 (Dec 3, 2019)

JaZZ said:


> We're talking of different things. I never considered resonances within the ear cup frame a real issue, but exclusively cared for its reflective surfaces


Resonances from baffle to frame is blatantly real as seen on CSD and observed in hD600 series as well.

Yes I agree it's different from reflection issues
Reflective surfaces reflect and trying to stop that always involves material which will dampen and alters EQ, but I abandoned that approach as it *always *reduced the soundstage.



JaZZ said:


> Instead you partly cover the steel mesh with a sound-absorbing mesh,


I do not use those rug liner methods.
They kill upper end air and reduce the sound stage.



JaZZ said:


> but I decided that the sound is better that way: more lifelike and airier.


If you're taking about not covering mesh, I agree completely.
I Do not cover anything.



JaZZ said:


> I don't know Dynamat, but I guess it's just as little capable of fully «eliminating» resonances (if there's a significant amount of them


Yes you can see in CSD plots the resonances as long decay lines.
There is a significant long ringing resonance around the 6k area.
Most all CSD images in web will show you this..

Believe me, I got alot of heat from picky members at another site, and in the sound-science forums here, about the need to back up all observations with actual data, which I have.



JaZZ said:


> my damping mod will kill all reflections


If your method still has any sonic resemblance to stock, then you have not fully eliminated it.

I do not discount that you could mask and kill off much of it, but in my experience, that will also kill off upper treble air

My observation of total elimination of the 6k ring, produced an image that was extremely focused and lost it's airy soundstage.

I had to then go with the Dekoni upgrade earpads, to increase driver depth and distance to maximize the basket design, which was purposely intended for soundstage image.



JaZZ said:


> I've just been at your thread and noticed that you're proud of the fact that you have preserved the treble intensity in the interest of liveliness, whereas I for one am proud to have reduced it.


Yes I agree with you here.
A more neutral FR is more ideal, which is why my latest design which levels it out almost completely as shown in the pic I posted before, an upcoming design which accepts the basket design fully and does not alter it.
Look at how even it is so far, without use of  deadening materials:




JaZZ said:


> Who wants near-field reflections!


IMO, this design is to be accepted.
Look at:
Sony Qualia 010..
Sony MDR-SA5000..
Utopia..
They are all using the same principal of a basket enclosure for a reason.
Think of how a horn works to spread out the wave. Wave propagation.



JaZZ said:


> With my damping mod I'm trying to get as close as possible to the acoustic-openness ideal, which the HD 800 designers also strove for,


We seem to be going different design directions.
Acoustic openness with this design, to me, relies on maximum internal volume and distance of the driver.
Sound wave propagation.
Anything put inside this space to dampen, will instead and also absorb and alter the sound..
 In doing so will lessen the space and air observed.
Put anything inside as a test to the observed reduction of soundstage.
While the best methods IMO were the SDR & my Senheiser foam insert,
I no longer use materials inside the front area in my latest design/mod of my HD800.

Edit:
I like your usage of a sorbothane/rubber gasket under the metal ring, yet it is reliant on pressure and your "durometer density" level, for performance.
The tightening screws of the driver were not meant to hold a constant pressure, and pressure(compression in this case) is a necessary component for sorbothane/rubber products to work in absorbing energy.

The dynamat has advantage of no pressure necessary, as it adds its own weight to immediately stop any vibrational energy.


----------



## 340519

It's funny because a lot of people warned me about getting the 800 saying it was the worst headphone around. I absolutely love it.


----------



## Maxx134 (Dec 3, 2019)

dmdm said:


> It's funny because a lot of people warned me about getting the 800 saying it was the worst headphone around. I absolutely love it.



IMO, all of the new Headphones out are getting closer, but still not reaching the HD800/Utopia/Stax level of resolve.
Edit**
I believe when a headphone becomes such a reference level, it will not be forgiving and show everything, and so why it can be disliked.
I myself bought and sold it 3x in past.


----------



## G0rt

HD800/SDR is, for me, endgame. Clear, resolving, jaw-dropping. Period. Dekoni Hybrids, Norne Draug 2.

All the time? Hardly. Much of the time, I find HD700 more fun, more engaging, more forgiving, but with huge stage, detail and dynamics.

All the time? Nope. Sometimes, I want to relax and not be challenged, much, and reach for HD660S...

All the time?


----------



## JaZZ (Dec 4, 2019)

I apologize if I sound(ed) like ctiticizing your mods and your approach, that isn't my intention... should't be, would be unfair – just because we have a different sonic ideal, at least in this case. In fact I admire your passion with which you try to find your personal optimum, without too much respect for the designer's sonic concept.



Maxx134 said:


> Resonances from baffle to frame is blatantly real as seen on CSD and observed in hD600 series as well.


Sorry, but the resolution of your CSD graphs is way to coarse to see anything, for comparing it with the somewhat higher-resolution reference graph; they don't even show time coordinates. Also, even if there were measurable vibrations within the frame, they wouldn't show up in classic CSD graphs, which aren't resolving enough either. Best to use some acceleration sensors for that purpose. BTW, if you see some improvement with the 6-kHz resonance, it could very well be caused by the ring-shaped absorber around the driver preventing the strongest near-field reflections (and not necessarily material resonances).



> Yes I agree it's different from reflection issues
> Reflective surfaces reflect and trying to stop that always involves material which will dampen and alters EQ, but I abandoned that approach as it *always *reduced the soundstage.


Here's where we have the biggest conflict: I don't want smeared transients in the interest of the amplitude domain. The latter can be fixed, unlike the former. And I don't want an artificial soundstage created by the headphone – I prefer unmasked spatial cues on the recordings.



> I do not use those rug liner methods. They kill upper end air and reduce the sound stage. If you're taking about not covering mesh, I agree completely. I Do not cover anything.


I see – misinterpreted one of your mods.



> If your method still has any sonic resemblance to stock, then you have not fully eliminated it.


My two different sounding pairs (with identical JaZZ mod) sound significantly different from a stock HD 800 – drier, less sparkly and warmer. BTW, I wasn't saying «my damping mod will kill all reflections», but in fact the opposite, if you read the complete sentence.



> I do not discount that you could mask and kill off much of it, but in my experience, that will also kill off upper treble air


...which is very welcome, since the «upper treble air» exclusively consists of parasitic reflections. I want my headphones to add and subtract as little as possible.



> A more neutral FR is more ideal, which is why my latest design which levels it out almost completely as shown in the pic I posted before, an upcoming design which accepts the basket design fully and does not alter it.
> Look at how even it is so far, without use of deadening materials...


I don't believe a single isolated frequency-response graph – it takes three or five (with their inevitable gross deviations) for forming a passably valid opinion –, and yours is way too much smoothed anyway. But maybe it really represents the resulting sound, who knows!



> IMO, this design is to be accepted. Look at: Sony Qualia 010.. Sony MDR-SA5000.. Utopia..
> They are all using the same principal of a basket enclosure for a reason. Think of how a horn works to spread out the wave. Wave propagation.


Using horns and waveguides as a reference for headphone designs is a bad idea. Horns cannot be used for headphones, since the desired smooth course of acoustic impedance would find an abrupt break at the listener's head and ears. So the sound waves are reflected back into the horn, which is extremely unwanted, as it leads to a chorus-like multipath effect. Fortunately the HD 800 doesn't resemble a horn system apart from the (more than semi-)permeable steel mesh, and I can't see why absorbing sound waves at the frame bars destroys a wanted horn effect.
Yes, the Qualia was a headphone apparantly designed with a horn in mind. I haven't heard it, but wondered how it sounds. Some liked it for its extreme detail, and those who didn't reported an irritating hollowness – which I can absolutely reproduce. I once owned the SA5000 and liked it a bit, but not enough to keep it. There was no design feature on it that reminded me of a horn function, though. The same applies to the Utopia: What may look like a horn (to you) is just an acoustically transparent metal grid.

Speaking of horns: When I was into speakers (many years ago) there was a phase when I liked them, owned a few and built a few myself during my intensive hobbyist speaker-builder era. I never considered them natural sounding, though – the horn reflections were permanently audible, although they sometimes sounded seductive.



> We seem to be going different design directions.


Indeed. And here's where I have to apologize again: With our headphones we usually listen to recordings made for speakers – which would call for room reflections to complement the relatively dry recording characteristic. Moreover listening to headphones isn't exactly a natural sensual experience, that's why there's some tolerance in view of other unnatural effects implied by the headphone design, such as multiple reflections between driver/housing and ears – and even worse with closed-back headphones: between driver/membrane and rear wall. Hence portraying my own puristic concept as the only valid approach would be arrogant. So I content myself with informing people with similar sonic ideals that there are other approaches (e.g. mine, with the black-velvet mod and equalizing as obligatory tool for optimization) that may suit them better.


----------



## JaZZ

Maxx134 said:


> IMO, all of the new Headphones out are getting closer, but still not reaching the HD800/Utopia/Stax level of resolve.


I'll be so bold as to contradict again: My (equalized and lavricabled) HE1000se is about half a class above my modified (equalized and lavricabled) HD 800 in terms of soundstage, resolution, detail, instrument timbres, low-frequency extension and distortion... I've heard the Utopia, but not in my system, and like it, but don't think it is just as good (→ soundstage!), let alone better, and my (excellent!) electrostats are just third choice, since they're electrostats by nature.


----------



## johnjen

One thing that strikes me as rather significant about modding the 800's is that we are able to change the basic nature of this HP.
And yes it isn't a night and day difference but is a series of refinements, some of which can be VERY significant.

And unlike speakers where for the most part it's the crossover that can be modded, 800's are being tweaked in a variety of ways to suit the end users sonic preferences.  Of course the counter point is that they 'Need' to be fussed with in order to let them 'sing' instead of merely 'play the notes' so to speak.

Even so the 800's lend themselves extremely well to this level of tweaking, whereas most other TotL HP's, simply don't.

And in my approach to dialing them in, I agree that the 'trapezoid' needs to have it's reflective surfaces damped/dealt with as they add far to much smearing to the waveform that reaches our ears.
And my goal for tweaking them is aimed specifically at the overshoot issue, which seems to be an 'overlooked' issue as something to directly address.

And I have had it 'verified' that this overshoot issue was deliberately designed into the 800's.
And it would appear it is widely used as a sonic character enhancing technique.

I wish they (the manufacturers) would dial it WAY back and use 'just enough' instead of over doing it and using it as a Sales Enhancement Technique.

As I said in my write up "Granted they may not be as initially spectacular, but SotA HP’s DON’T need all that sizzle, we want the steak."

JJ


----------



## Maxx134 (Dec 4, 2019)

JaZZ said:


> I apologize if I sound(ed) like ctiticizing your mods and your approach, that isn't my intention...


Thank you but no apologies necessary, I enjoy the technical interaction.
All members have invaluable information to absorb whether technical or experience. Threads are great interaction tools from people otherwise impossible to reach.



JaZZ said:


> Sorry, but the resolution of your CSD graphs is way to coarse to see anything,


I didn't post any CSD hear so interested  members would be inclined to search web for the many CSD out there on the HD800



JaZZ said:


> they wouldn't show up in classic CSD graphs, which aren't resolving enough either


The 6k ring shows up as a ringing trail on the CSD plots. It is this that creates the artificial diffuse effect of a larger soundstage.
In my experience, elimination creates a lazer like pinpoint focus of the sonic image, but also that loss of haze...



JaZZ said:


> don't want smeared transients in the interest of the amplitude domain


I Agree fully !



JaZZ said:


> And I don't want an artificial soundstage created by the headphone


I agree as well, which is why I looked into the design, because without the 6k ring, I noted the observation of being able to hear its enclosure dimensions...
I solved this issue partly by enhancing its design with the Dekoni pads.
The Dekoni ferenstrated leather pads sounded best, but it was the thicker  padding (from stock) which gave more internal volume and more space for the driver to do its thing, to produce a larger image..
Wave propagation:






JaZZ said:


> My two different sounding pairs (with identical JaZZ mod) sound significantly different from a stock HD 800


I like your approach to touching on the main issue to me, which was the stock metal ring around driver ( not being very effective.)



JaZZ said:


> I don't believe a single isolated frequency-response graph – it takes three or five


Sure no prob, I can send you the REW file for your own comparisons, if you use that.



JaZZ said:


> Using horns and waveguides as a reference for headphone designs is a bad idea


Yep that was a very rough analogy.
I don't believe thats what is actually happening with those Headphones.



JaZZ said:


> Yes, the Qualia... I haven't heard it, but wondered how it sounds.


It was one of the best sounding Headphones ever made.
It had more speed and cleaner sound than both the HD800 & HD800S I compared it to that one time I heard it.
It was fast and tight like an electrostat.
I heard it and it is eye poping amazing.
Very large sound.
Unfortunately, it was very cumbersome to put and fit on head, and was a bit lean on bass, but really above almost all in clarity.



JaZZ said:


> Indeed. And here's where I have to apologize again: With our headphones we usually listen to recordings made for speakers


No apologies needed. I was raised on speaker rigs and yes its a different world but I feel a top headphone will bring you closer to the event than a speaker setup.



JaZZ said:


> I'll be so bold as to contradict again: My (equalized and lavricabled) HE1000se is about half a class above my modified (equalized and lavricabled) HD 800 in terms of soundstage, resolution, detail, instrument timbres, low-frequency extension and distortion...


Yes I felt that way as well with my HEKv2.
It has the clarity and really bottom depth of bass, but only when you put it up against the Susvara, do you notice it also has a bit of bass coloration and that bit less of midrange realism.
The Susvara is really a true end game can.

You should try my port mod on your HEK to bring it a notch closer to Susvara, as I discovered the frontal ear cup pressure had a limiting & suction effect on the driver membrane, so it  impeded it's natural motion, so you end up with less rounded or holographic natural mids.
Opening a port also brings more effortless  depth of space.
But I not want to sidetrack so I will point out that the HD800 climbs with speaker amps just like the Susvara.
Very few headphones can handle speaker amps due to the noise floor, yet the high impedance of the HD800 makes it immune..


----------



## Maxx134 (Dec 5, 2019)

johnjen said:


> And my goal for tweaking them is aimed specifically at the overshoot issue, which seems to be an 'overlooked' issue as something to directly address.





johnjen said:


> And I have had it 'verified' that this overshoot issue was deliberately designed into the 800's.



Every headphones have different impulse, but what I have noted that is "_worse_", is the stax 009 impuse response.
It has zero negative peak after the initial rise.

This is not normal for a driver.
A normal impuse has both positive and negative peaks to complete natural motion in a speaker, as can be googled.
So what I observe from this is it's uncanny speed and, to me, "artificially" detailed _electrostatic sound_, when you compare to a different and more natural sounding planar like Susvara.
As The exciting and realistic as the 009 sounds, it still loses  some bit of depth of image, because of this, in my comparisons.

The reason I mention all this, is because the HD800, as you have noted, also specifically designed its impulse, which I believe was intentional.

These designers measure everything before its made.
Those guys may be gone now but what an amazing feat the HD800 is to still be a standard above most others.


----------



## johnjen

In my post about my mods to the 800's, I surmised that it was the marketing dept. that made the decision to 'tailor' the step response to the 800's, which was later confirmed.  This means that the designers were not given a 'free hand' to design the 800's to be 'ideal' transducers, rather they were designed to 'sell' to the target audience, ie rich(er)/older HP users.

This to me is a sad state of affairs in that the 800 is a tour de force in terms of materials, along with the depth of the design itself.
But the end results were deliberately marginalized which led to our desire to 'fix' their 'flaws' as the HP community has attempted to do.

And what is telling to me is, that the majority of the HP's for sale all employ this 'trick' of adding overshoot (to varying degrees) to their designs as well.
And if this Sales Enhancement Technique was re-focused to achieve a more accurate and articulate acoustic presentation, at least for the TotL HP's, I do believe we would enter into an era of truly stunning SQ from HP's, instead of all these variations of the same degree of SQ, that we now observe.

Fortunately the 800, as mentioned, does lend itself to being tweaked, so to varying degrees we can undo the marketing dept's misguided attempts to "make it' sell well, instead of making them sound exquisite and let them sell themselves.

JJ


----------



## JaZZ (Dec 7, 2019)

Maxx134 said:


> The 6k ring shows up as a ringing trail on the CSD plots. It is this that creates the artificial diffuse effect of a larger soundstage.
> In my experience, elimination creates a lazer like pinpoint focus of the sonic image, but also that loss of haze...


I don't think so – a single sharp resonance can't simulate or increase soundstage. Speaking of the long ringing: it strongly reminds of a typical membrane resonance induced by standing waves through inner reflections. It's barely possible for a relatively solid piece of plastic (even with a metal plate on it) to create such a long lasting and pure ringing.



> The Dekoni fenestrated leather pads sounded best, but it was the thicker padding (from stock) which gave more internal volume and more space for the driver to do its thing, to produce a larger image.


That's something I like to try as well. I just ordered the fenestrated sheepskin pads plus a pair of the velour pads from Audio Sanctuary. That said, erroneously I selected the standard sheepskin pads, hopefully they can change it tomorrow (price is the same). This was inspired by exchanging the relatively old and flat Sennheiser pads on my older pair for the fresher ones from the newer pair, which resulted in a significantly airier sound. The two pairs do sound different independent of the state of the pads, though, but now I even prefer the signature of the older pair. I think some more distance to the ears can indeed be beneficial.



> It _[...the Qualia...]_ was one of the best sounding Headphones ever made. It had more speed and cleaner sound than both the HD800 & HD800S I compared it to that one time I heard it. It was fast and tight like an electrostat. I heard it and it is eye poping amazing. Very large sound. Unfortunately, it was very cumbersome to put and fit on head, and was a bit lean on bass, but really above almost all in clarity.


I still suspect the hyper detail could be the result of a «chorus effect» from (let's say «controlled») multipath sound-wave propagation which seems inevitable in such a design.



> Yes I felt that way as well with my HEKv2. It has the clarity and really bottom depth of bass, but only when you put it up against the Susvara, do you notice it also has a bit of bass coloration and that bit less of midrange realism. The Susvara is really a true end game can.


Actually I'm fairly optimistic that my EQ curve has fixed those issues, at least to a large degree (can't really reproduce them as I don't have a Susvara at my disposal). All HE1000 versions had slightly too much bass to my ears, and the «se» is no exception, although it surprisingly benefits from some mild sub-bass boost nonetheless.



> You should try my port mod on your HEK to bring it a notch closer to Susvara, as I discovered the frontal ear cup pressure had a limiting & suction effect on the driver membrane, so it impeded it's natural motion, so you end up with less rounded or holographic natural mids. Opening a port also brings more effortless depth of space.


The thing is, I wear glasses – most of the time. And they make no difference to the sound. I also feel that there's always an opening at the lowest point behind my ears, so I'm far from an airtight seal. Given that, an additional port would be pointless. Maybe what your mod does is reducing the bass? Which is a good thing in my book and beneficial for midrange and soundstage.

BTW, I soon will have to send my HE1000se in for an exchange – the paint on the magnet bars is flaking off. And this now that it looks as if my constant pad-deterioration problem has disappeared. HiFiMan makes some of the best sounding headphones in my book, but build quality lets a lot to be desired. Even and especially with their top products. That said, the older of my two HD 800 looks like it had been eaten by a dog; reselling would be impossible. And the newer one is about to look the same in a few years. However, I will have to live with my HD 800 as my main headphone for a few weeks – which is absolutely fine with me.



ohnjen said:


> ...the 800's lend themselves extremely well to this level of tweaking, whereas most other TotL HP's, simply don't.
> And in my approach to dialing them in, I agree that the 'trapezoid' needs to have it's reflective surfaces damped/dealt with as they add far to much smearing to the waveform that reaches our ears.


Thank you for agreeing with me!


> ...my goal for tweaking them is aimed specifically at the overshoot issue, which seems to be an 'overlooked' issue as something to directly address. And I have had it 'verified' that this overshoot issue was deliberately designed into the 800's. And it would appear it is widely used as a sonic character enhancing technique


I'm not sure what measurement graph you're referring to when you're speaking of the «overshoot». Looking at the Inner Fidelity measurements, there's certainly a massive overshoot at the start of the square wave cycles at 30 Hz and 300 Hz, but that is a common feature of all headphones there. As I see it, Tyll has used «uncompensated» signals for the impulse measurements, which by nature have an upper-midrange hump. Additionally most of the test subjects also show some high-frequency accentuations. Both features will reflect themselves in the square-wave responses as an accentuated initial impulse – within the relatively low-frequency square waves. An overshoot – or any square-wave/impulse shape – always has a connection to the amplitude response, and the 6-kHz peak followed by a still somewhat elevated upper treble will definitely find its corresponding expression in impulse diagrams of any sort.

I don't believe the 6-kHz peak is really intended by Sennheiser. Headphone developers don't have total control over the sound, otherwise someone would have designed the perfect sounding headphone. Most likely they found it to be bearable or even attractive for a large public. If it's really caused by inner reflections between membrane and magnet system (my suspicion), it's hard to avoid in such a ring-membrane design.



Maxx134 said:


> Every headphones have different impulse, but what I have noted that is "_worse_", is the stax 009 impuse response.
> It has zero negative peak after the initial rise.


Could you show which graph you're referring to? The ones from Inner Fidelity show no such irregularities...





...except for reversed polarity.


----------



## johnjen (Dec 6, 2019)

JaZZ said:


> snip
> Thank you for agreeing with me!
> 
> I'm not sure what measurement graph you're referring to when you're speaking of the «overshoot». Looking at the Inner Fidelity measurements, there's certainly a massive overshoot at the start of the square wave cycles at 30 Hz and 300 Hz, but that is a common feature of all headphones there. As I see it, Tyll has used «uncompensated» signals for the impulse measurements, which by nature have an upper-midrange hump. Additionally most of the test subjects also show some high-frequency accentuations. Both features will reflect themselves in the square-wave responses as an accentuated initial impulse – within the relatively low-frequency square waves. An overshoot – or any square-wave/impulse shape – always has a connection to the amplitude response, and the 6-kHz peak followed by a still somewhat elevated upper treble will definitely find its corresponding expression in impulse diagrams of any sort.
> ...


When I looked into the earcup and saw those (relatively) large, flat, reflective surfaces, I knew they needed to be addressed. And the driver mounting ring being a flat metal resonator/reflector pointing directly at my ears was also in need of attention.
And I wasn't alone in recognizing these as issues to be addressed.

Many attempts of material choices and configurations later, I had come up with a 'passable' solution dealing with these reflective aspects to the design, but it hadn't 'solved' the primary issue that I heard, namely Listener Fatigue.
I later began calling it *tLFF* (the Listener Fatigue Factor) and I had drilled down into it enough to be able to track changes and determine improvements, or not.
And I was able to quantify my results well enough to see correlation between my experiments and the results such that I became 'clued into' what the benefits and net effects were.
This helped me in dialing in what changes to try next and to more quickly determine what truly was *'better'*, or not.
And this was all well before I began directly addressing and fussing with the overshoot issue.
And the prevailing understanding all along was, and remains, that the 6 to 7KHz 'spike' was the culprit.

And yes I used the leading edge of a 20Hz square wave/step response as the single measurement to address this overshoot issue.
And yes again, I do agree that overshoot is a designed in aspect and has been widely adopted as a desirable performance characteristic by many manufacturers, in that it is the exception to NOT see considerable overshoot on the leading edge of a square wave/step response.

So my experimentation shifted gears and I started finding ways to reduce the amount of overshoot.
It took a couple of years and many thousands of hours of listening, to find the right combination of materials and configurations to significantly reduce the amount of overshoot, AND not mess with the rest of the 800's desirable characteristics.
My latest (and final) Gen-6 results, which have been nicknamed the 800-J-mod, has greatly ameliorated the *tLFF* issue, for the better.

And what I have also determined is that the 6 to 7KHz treble peak is NOT a problem that needs to be addressed, as the PRIMARY problem in order to 'solve' the *tLFF* issue.
It's the extra added 'unnatural' energy generated at the leading edge of any steep rise time wave form that is the primary source of *tLFF*.
It is irritating, especially at elevated listening levels.

Indeed, I have applied 'corrective' EQ (both before and after Gen-6 results were obtained) and it makes very little difference in terms of not just *tLFF* but also to the overall SQ that has been achieved.
And to the point I no longer use ANY EQ, except for the extreme bottom end (12Hz to ≈100Hz) which is a mirror reflection of the 800's natural roll off.

And one of the unexpected benefits of lowering the amount of overshoot is an increase in the *LEDR* (Leading Edge Dynamic Response), meaning the acoustic sound pressure that is heard and FELT when a percussive impact is played, has taken a decided step up, which is oh so appreciated.
So instead of acoustic sound pressure being generated where it shouldn't be, along with it's dissipation thru time, a more precise waveform is created with a more 'natural' dissipation thru time.

And as I stated in my write up, the results I have obtained thus far could be taken to whole new levels of performance, given the necessary tools and resources, in order to 'nail' the amount of both overshoot and undershoot in order to better 'square off' the response to a square wave signal.

But after I had achieved Gen-6 performance, I don't feel the need to spend any more $$$$ in order to explore this one set of experiments any further, as there are other avenues and experiments that are in need of exploring.

IOW *tLFF* has been reduced to the point that it no longer is an issue for me, it no longer 'sticks out' enough that it needs to be fussed with, and along with the unexpected improvements that were also noticed in,
*LEDR*,
*Moar is Less* (The *DRC* (Dynamic Range Control) goes up but it doesn't get louder, there is just MOAR there),
*REALNESS*  The acoustic presentation becomes all the more REAL,
*HMMAIAA*  (Hearing My Music As If Anew Again, hearing additional nuances and subtleties etc.),
*HE*  (Hear Everything, as in the entire acoustic space, all of the '*voices*' (any source of sound), massed instruments with greater individuation etc.),
and as such I have declared 'victory'.

Which in turn, has allowed other projects and experiments to move to the front burner.

JJ


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Wouldn’t it be great, if someone took up the business of buying a stock HD800, putting in these mods, and reselling it, much as I think ZMF sells modded Fostex headphones.  Is that what Sennheiser themselves have done to get to the HD 800S?


----------



## P+D-MI

That's the I thought I have every time I read johnjen's posts about the hd800. If it's really all that I would think somebody would want to bring it to market.


----------



## johnjen

I have toyed with the idea of 'offering' an upgrade 'service', but the math ($$$$'s) and liability (If I screw up someone else's 800's) make this idea somewhat impractical, at least for me alone to initiate.
At least if the idea was to keep the cost of such a service 'reasonable'.
Not to mention my house is small and there really isn't room to handle the 'production' requirements (the space, tables, keeping track of who's 800's are who's etc.)

And I have added these mods to 2 other sets of 800's besides my own, and it isn't all that hard to do, IF you're handy with tools and know your way around doing mods etc.
The trapazoid treatment and the hardwiring of the cable do add more complexity and considerably more fussing, not to mention the added time and parts, a few of which are not easy to source.
But for an experienced DIY'r the 3 mods that make up the 'full meal deal' of the 800-Jmod are not all that difficult.

I do wish that Senn would wake up to the fact that their marketing Dept. needs to take a major step back and consider using WAY less overshoot, along with all the other manufacturers (with a few exceptions).
This one factor alone could lead to a MAJOR step up in SQ for EVERYONE, especially in the TotL HP market where accuracy and tonal precision are much more valued, and expected.

I know they have the technical capabilities and know how to dial all of this in and make truly spectacular sounding HP's.
I know this because even my DIY'r efforts have resulted in substantial improvements that are simply amazing.
And as I have mentioned my mods could easily be taken to levels way beyond this, but the $$$$$$ required are far beyond a DIY'rs budget, but NOT beyond what capabilities the manufacturers already possess.

And indeed it takes considerable expertise to add overshoot and not screw up other functional aspects of the design and final SQ.
And so foregoing the SET (Sales Enhancement Technique), at least to the degree they use it now, would be a MAJOR step up, in and of itself.
Let alone letting the design Dept. have a 'free hand' and deliver an accurate, precise, articulate set of HP's, rather than offering the eye candy bling, 'targeted' to an audience that marketing wants/thinks it needs to sell to.

And yeah they ARE in business to make money etc, and the 800 was a HUGE success, now they just need to learn the lesson about how detrimental this entrenched marketing influence truly is.

IOW, we, the DIY'rs, shouldn't have to re-engineer their own flagship products in order to let them truly sing in the 1st place.

JJ


----------



## omniweltall

johnjen said:


> I have toyed with the idea of 'offering' an upgrade 'service', but the math ($$$$'s) and liability (If I screw up someone else's 800's) make this idea somewhat impractical, at least for me alone to initiate.
> At least if the idea was to keep the cost of such a service 'reasonable'.
> Not to mention my house is small and there really isn't room to handle the 'production' requirements (the space, tables, keeping track of who's 800's are who's etc.)
> 
> ...


Well said, JJ.


----------



## johnjen (Dec 8, 2019)

Thanks!  

One last thing.
Sennheiser COULD offer a retrofit 'kit' to make the majority of the improvements I have come up with.
With the exception of hardwiring the cable, and since those teeny tiny connectors are an abomination, and an expensive one at that, I found it good idea to get rid of them along with those itsy-bitsy wires.

They could even offer a 'Trapazoid Treatment Kit' (TTK, yes I do seem to like acronyms don't I?  hahahaha) for little cost as well.

But sadly since the HD800 is out of production it would seem these 2 ideas are not likely to ever see the light of day.
Mores the pity.

JJ


----------



## JaZZ (Dec 8, 2019)

_John..._


johnjen said:


> ...the majority of the HP's for sale all employ this 'trick' of adding overshoot (to varying degrees) to their designs as well.


We seem to share a common sonic ideal – but your idea of «overshoot» is a misconception.

The elevated leading edge in the square-wave response is just another aspect of the high(er)-frequency accentuation within the amplitude response. Amplitude response and impulse response are aspects of the very same thing: the signal transfer function (see: signal theory). That's why it's possible to generate a complete amplitude response from a single impulse (→ MLSSA). In the case at hand, the broad presence of this phenomenon on Inner Fidelity's square-wave measurements is primarily caused by the accentuation of the lower treble due to the missing compensation according to the Harman target curve plus in some cases an additional high-frequency excess. If you increase the frequency of the square-wave signals, the «overshoot» will more and more disappear. And if you filter the signal beforehand according to the Harman taget curve, it will be largely absent generally. Save for the mentioned exceptions. So it isn't an intended feature of modern headphones, let alone a concerted conspiracy of the headphone industry in the spirit of the loudness war.

In my system I have brought the HD 800 to a really ear-friendly sound characteristic without irritating tonal flaws – by means of damping measures and careful equalizing (with markedly different curves for my two pairs). At the same time it has become a convincing all-rounder with an attractive or even spectacular presentation (particularly due to the low-frequency extension). I wouldn't be able to enjoy it as much without active equalizing, though, and this also applies to mids and highs.



> Fortunately the 800, as mentioned, does lend itself to being tweaked


I agree, it's easy to modify – just stay away from the _Anaxilus mod_ (i.e. foam materials instead of the original velvet). And the sound change will need some getting used to (plus equalizing in the ideal case).


----------



## Yviena

Are there any recommended Parametric EQ for HD800 Dust cover on + SDR?


----------



## johnjen

JaZZ.
I understand that overshoot is misunderstood and does have a direct connection to the high frequency components of a square wave.
And I'd bet that the use of overshoot is 'justified', at least in part, by what you described as the 'nature' of the beast, and not just by the wave form itself but the means of measurement as well.

I didn't use Tyll's graphs but generated my own (using a 3Dio dummy head and Audacity) to use as a comparator between the 'stock' response and all of my fussings.
That way I had multiple before and after graphs to analyze and see how differing materials and configurations affected the way and type and amount of overshoot and undershoot that resulted from these experiments.
And in one of my tests I did kill all of the overshoot as another data point, but the results were sonically completely unacceptable.

And I did try using felt among many other materials, but I found that dampening was like a bandaid instead of amelioration of the root cause of the problem.
And so I found that substantially reducing the amount of overshoot, but not eliminating it entirely, was the magic bullet, so to speak.

And my goal here was, as a HOBBIEST, not a professional, to see what could be done to the 800's in order to deal with *tLFF* (the Listener Fatigue Factor).
So being scientifically rigorous wasn't really on my to do list, but getting the 800's to sing was.
And if I as a hobbiest could achieve these results, just imagine what the factory could achieve, assuming that their goal was the same.
And by remaining in the hobbiest camp I could maintain my desire of having fun with all of this, instead of trying to adhere to being 'professional', with all of its 'complications'.

As for it's use by the industry as a SET (Sales Enhancement Tool), that was easily determined and early on by the use of the *tLFF* tests I came up with.  And in my experience, that the industry actively uses this technique, means it's not a conspiracy but is a sales tool to help sell product, which has been confirmed and is rather evident once I dove into this rabbit hole and explored the territory.

And yes, the HP manufacturers are in business to sell product and the customers decision to purchase is usually made well before what I call 'the Bose' effect has a chance to become all to evident, (it sounds REALLY good at the store, but after living with the device, it becomes evident that there is something 'just not right').
This too is rather evident when you take into account ALL of the effort spent on 'fixing' the 800's, as in how many different approaches have been developed, tried, and yet additional attempts are still being made.

And as I have determined, this major reduction in overshoot results in a degree of SQ that cannot be ignored, nor forgotten, nor have I heard any other attempt to deal with the 800's idiosyncrasies, much less as these *tLFF* issues, that results in such improvements.

And I have tried them all except for the dampener ring, which in my opinion is and was a step backwards.
Because instead of dealing with the root cause of the problem they tried to dampen it, which is what ALL of the mods that have been developed also try to do.

And, again in my experience dampening, absorbing, diffusing, masking, are not addressing the root cause, instead they are attempts at hiding or reducing the effects of improperly creating the waveform being fed to the drivers in the first place.
As in once the signal gets hammered instead of disguising the hammer marks, my approach is to not use a hammer in the first place, or at least use a much smaller hammer instead of a 10lb sledge hammer.

This is akin to creating the original waveform more precisely in the first place, so that there little to no need for a 'fix' to begin with.

JJ


----------



## omniweltall

johnjen said:


> it sounds REALLY good at the store, but after living with the device, it becomes evident that there is something 'just not right'.


Reminds me of TV.


----------



## johnjen (Dec 9, 2019)

When the Bose 901's 1st came out it was only a few months later that the comment of "They sound too good" became the all to common comment.
Thus, The Bose effect, due in large part do to  *tLFF* (all 9 drivers were deliberately mis-matched to 'smooth over' all of their deficiencies).
This as you might imagine could cause BIG *tLFF* at higher volumes, especially since they were VERY power hungry, and at that time there were no power amps that could deliver enough power.

They'd even suck a Phase Linear 700 dry trying to deliver low bass.

JJ


----------



## JaZZ

_John_, can you point me to the post where your mods are explained?


----------



## johnjen

Sure no problem
This is #3 of the series and contains the links to #1 and #2

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-diyrs-cookbook.781268/page-90#post-14608836

JJ


----------



## chimney189

I can't decide between rebuying an HD 800 ($825, then installing the SDR modification) or an HD 800S ($1,100).
I'm currently listening to the HD 800S and the sound is just so pleasing, but what amazes me is that my Abyss Diana V2 has more extension on the top-end than the HD 800S.

I regret selling this classic so many times.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

chimney189 said:


> I can't decide between rebuying an HD 800 ($825, then installing the SDR modification) or an HD 800S ($1,100).
> I'm currently listening to the HD 800S and the sound is just so pleasing, but what amazes me is that my Abyss Diana V2 has more extension on the top-end than the HD 800S.
> 
> I regret selling this classic so many times.



As a former owner of the Diana V2, it definitely does not have more treble extension than the 800S. What it does have, though, is a less even and less refined treble.


----------



## chimney189

Hifiearspeakers said:


> As a former owner of the Diana V2, it definitely does not have more treble extension than the 800S. What it does have, though, is a less even and less refined treble.



Nonsense!


----------



## Yviena

I hope senn decides to release a HD900, or a fixed HD800 without most of the resonances, as completely killing them seems to also kill the soundstage which we all want, though I think maybe the direction headphones are going is personalized HRTF/EQ which will become more common in the future in probably 10-20 years.


----------



## BreadMaster

Yviena said:


> I hope senn decides to release a HD900, or a fixed HD800 without most of the resonances, as completely killing them seems to also kill the soundstage which we all want, though I think maybe the direction headphones are going is personalized HRTF/EQ which will become more common in the future in probably 10-20 years.


We shall see in 2020


----------



## BreadMaster

chimney189 said:


> I can't decide between rebuying an HD 800 ($825, then installing the SDR modification) or an HD 800S ($1,100).
> I'm currently listening to the HD 800S and the sound is just so pleasing, but what amazes me is that my Abyss Diana V2 has more extension on the top-end than the HD 800S.
> 
> I regret selling this classic so many times.


More like work on upping your amp/source and cable to get the best out of your Hd800 before having an affair with Diana?


----------



## GraveNoX (Jan 8, 2020)

edited


----------



## gordec

I'm thinking about trying the Dekoni pads. If I want to stay closest to stock pads, I should get the hybrid or leather right? Sounds like the fenestrated changes sound signature the most. The reviews for Dekoni pads seem to be all over the place.


----------



## JaZZ

gordec said:


> I'm thinking about trying the Dekoni pads. If I want to stay closest to stock pads, I should get the hybrid or leather right? Sounds like the fenestrated changes sound signature the most. The reviews for Dekoni pads seem to be all over the place.


I tried both the fenestrated sheepskin pads and the velour pads and was shocked about the extreme loss of efficiency they caused. About 50% of the produced acoustic energy seems to be annihilated within the pads. So I'm not going to waste my time with them anymore. That's not to say bad things about Dekoni Audio – I like their Bulletz tips for IEMs.


----------



## gordec

JaZZ said:


> I tried both the fenestrated sheepskin pads and the velour pads and was shocked about the extreme loss of efficiency they caused. About 50% of the produced acoustic energy seems to be annihilated within the pads. So I'm not going to waste my time with them anymore. That's not to say bad things about Dekoni Audio – I like their Bulletz tips for IEMs.



Thanks that's what I'm afraid of. My stock ones are still in great shape. I modded some XL Brainwavz leather pads to use on Susvaras. They look awesome, but destroyed the sound. I guess there is a reason why pads are designed the way they are.


----------



## Thenewguy007

gordec said:


> I'm thinking about trying the Dekoni pads. If I want to stay closest to stock pads, I should get the hybrid or leather right? Sounds like the fenestrated changes sound signature the most. The reviews for Dekoni pads seem to be all over the place.



They change the sound signature way too drastically.


----------



## johnjen

JaZZ said:


> I tried both the fenestrated sheepskin pads and the velour pads and was shocked about the extreme loss of efficiency they caused. About 50% of the produced acoustic energy seems to be annihilated within the pads. So I'm not going to waste my time with them anymore. That's not to say bad things about Dekoni Audio – I like their Bulletz tips for IEMs.


I too was unimpressed with the Dekoni's.
They sucked up far to much of the leading edge dynamic impact energy from the bass and the mids for my tastes.

IOW the music lost lots of 'impact' and immediacy, which I have worked to enhance with all of my tweaks.

JJ


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Just got my 800s today. I only had about 30 minutes of listening but a few quick impressions are that it does not seem overly bright to me, bells and cymbals are crystal clear as I don't think I have heard from a headphone, and although the soundstage is wide it didn't knock me out as I expected after reading a lot of comments and reviews.


----------



## RCBinTN

I've heard similar comments about the Dakoni pads greatly affecting the SQ of the HD800. My two pair of HD800 still have the stock pads, they're in good shape after years of use.



gimmeheadroom said:


> Just got my 800s today. I only had about 30 minutes of listening but a few quick impressions are that it does not seem overly bright to me, bells and cymbals are crystal clear as I don't think I have heard from a headphone, and although the soundstage is wide it didn't knock me out as I expected after reading a lot of comments and reviews.


The sound stage is very much affected by the original recording technique. Try a Chesky Binaural recording and see what you think


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Thanks, are there any online (free) or Tidal, Deezer etc.?


----------



## Yviena

@JaZZ i asked the oratory guy on reddit to do CSD measurements of HD800.
What's your take on this guys frequency response, and CSD measurements here showing that there's basically no change with the dust covers removed: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...of_the_dust_cover_on_the_sennheiser/?sort=new


----------



## Peti

Throughout the years I'm keep coming back to the original HD800 with the SDR mod. I've had many high end models but this one I always return to. A fantastic tube amp with warm tubes is a must (for me) though). But when everything is there including headphone cables, these 'phones deliver heaven. Only, I haven not heard the famous Stefan Audio headphone cable for the HD800.


----------



## johnjen

I have to say that the TotL SAA cable is a really good matchup, and it was his customizing mod that triggered me to dive into these 800's in earnest.

I have heard (although rather briefly) the S replacement and wasn't as impressed, but I can understand the desire by some.
Still these HP's do respond to a well refined signal source driving them.

JJ


----------



## johnjen

I have to say that the TotL SAA cable is a really good matchup, and it was his customizing mod that triggered me to dive into these 800's in earnest.

I have heard (although rather briefly) the S replacement and wasn't as impressed, but I can understand the desire by some for that signature.

JJ


----------



## JaZZ (Jan 23, 2020)

Yviena said:


> @JaZZ i asked the oratory guy on reddit to do CSD measurements of HD800.
> What's your take on this guys frequency response, and CSD measurements here showing that there's basically no change with the dust covers removed: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...of_the_dust_cover_on_the_sennheiser/?sort=new


Actually I'm surprised at the comments on Reddit. To me the differences particularly in the decay plots are very clear. The resonances last longer without the cover, and even the starting frequency response shows a reduction of up to 4 dB above 10 kHz. There's some tendency of equalization in that dips are filled up, while humps are reduced, which is a hint that standing waves between driver and ear are somewhat reduced by the textile cover. In short: the graphs do show what I would have expected, and removing the cover will certainly have an audible effect. Note that even FR differences of less than 0.1 dB can be audible to sensitive ears. And a reduction of standing waves for increased signal accuracy is absolutely desirable. I even cover the bare surfaces within the earpieces with black velvet to reduce inner reflections.

One word to the slightly reduced level of lows and mids with removed cover: In my interpretation the textile cover also acts as some sort of barrier against rear sound waves reaching the ears through the steel mesh, thus minimally reducing phase cancellation. Just speculation, though.

BTW, how come that you're asking _me_ for a comment? I've never been a proponent of removing the covers and can't recall to ever have posted on the matter.


----------



## Yviena

JaZZ said:


> *BTW, how come that you're asking me for a comment? I've never been a proponent of removing the covers and can't recall to ever have posted on the matter.*


Oh I just thought you, or someone else else who knows this stuff would have a better explanation.

BTW are you still using felt, or have you gone over to one of the newer mods like the cork one, I'm soon about to mod mine, also is 2mm, or 3mm the correct size?

Do you think something like sorbothane on the rear outside where the black plastic is will further help reduce unwanted vibrations?


----------



## omniweltall

Peti said:


> Throughout the years I'm keep coming back to the original HD800 with the SDR mod. I've had many high end models but this one I always return to.


Same here. This and the old HD600, for me.


----------



## JaZZ (Jan 23, 2020)

Yviena said:


> Oh I just thought you, or someone else else who knows this stuff would have a better explanation.
> 
> BTW are you still using felt, or have you gone over to one of the newer mods like the cork one, I'm soon about to mod mine, also is 2mm, or 3mm the correct size?


Beware of the cork mod! Admittedly I haven't tried it, but it's clear to me that it will make the sound worse: It creates a new source of unwanted near-field reflections and moreover covers the steel mesh, which (as I see it) was designed to produce a sophisticated dose of reflections favoring higher frequencies meant to mimic an even wavefront that reaches the whole pinna.

I never used felt. My damping material of choice is and has remained velvet. Felt is too hard, which implies additional reflections beside the wanted absorption effect. I have tried foam, but soon discovered that it doesn't have the desired properties: It's either too hard as well (= reflective), and if it's soft, it lacks the necessary density to have a meaningful dampening effect, considering the available space and the precondition that it has to be thin enough to not interfere with the sound-wave path. The only material I know and have access to that's dense and soft at the same time is velvet. Unfortunately my damping mod has been «advanced» and as such even rebranded to the «Anaxilus mod». As the various measurements show, the beneficial effect of the newer implementations is marginal or even questionable.

The choice of velvet was in fact easy and undisputed in my case, as it has proven its worth in various projects of my glorious (hobbyist) speaker-building career.



> Do you think something like sorbothane on the rear outside where the black plastic is will further help reduce unwanted vibrations?


I know that e.g. _Maxx123_ swears by it, but I have never cared for the alleged resonances. Maybe wrongly, who knows. After all I couldn't take the SAA mods seriously, as they didn't care for the inevitable inner reflections on their part, which I consider crucial, especially the main cause of the standing waves between driver and ear (beside the membrane itself): the metal ring around the membrane (well, SAA has removed it, but what's under it is barely less reflective). The only valid measure in my book was hardwiring, but that was too invasive for me and would require a definitive cabling decision.


----------



## Yviena (Jan 23, 2020)

Hmm I see, what cutout do you use for the mod, would for example the  anax cutout be compatible with your velvet mod, and I'm still unsure which thickness to use, by triple layer velvet do you mean 3 layers stacked on top of each other?

And on another note what PEQ do you recommend with the mod, if you even use one.


----------



## JaZZ (Jan 23, 2020)

The Anaxilus template should be fine. The thickness of the velvet I'm using is 1-1.5 mm (hard to measure), but a little thicker (if that exists) wouldn't hurt. For the ring I would recommend to use just one layer, the rear frame bar deserves 2 or 3 layers, one attached on top of the other by means of a strong double-sided adhesive tape or foil, e.g. carpet tape (also to keep the fabric pieces in shape). It's a good idea to add some less sticky adhesive tape to the underside with contact to the plastic frame to facilitate the removal.

I've decided for black since it provides considerably higher light aborption. Thus it's not unlikely that it also provides better sound absorption than white (let's say by 5.75%), since light absorption happens by diffraction within the fibre structure, and the same could be valid for sound waves.

I hope my EQ curve for the velvet-modified HD 800 is of use for you (at least as a nonbinding template considering the chance that your individual HRTF may differ from mine):






This in view that my two pairs require significantly different compensation curves. Above curve is for the older pair. The newer pair, although brighter, needs a stronger increase of the upper treble.

The equalizer used is xnor's Graphic Equalizer for _foobar2000_. (While I guess your «PEQ» stands for «parametric equalizer».)


----------



## Yviena (Jan 25, 2020)

JaZZ said:


> The Anaxilus template should be fine. The thickness of the velvet I'm using is 1-1.5 mm (hard to measure), but a little thicker (if that exists) wouldn't hurt. For the ring I would recommend to use just one layer, the rear frame bar deserves 2 or 3 layers, one attached on top of the other by means of a strong double-sided adhesive tape or foil, e.g. carpet tape (also to keep the fabric pieces in shape). It's a good idea to add some less sticky adhesive tape to the underside with contact to the plastic frame to facilitate the removal.
> 
> I've decided for black since it provides considerably higher light aborption. Thus it's not unlikely that it also provides better sound absorption than white (let's say by 5.75%), since light absorption happens by diffraction within the fibre structure, and the same could be valid for sound waves.
> .
> ...



Yeah I can probably do it with a normal graphical equaliser too, as I make the convolution files in REW, I believe it should have that functionality.


I believe my HD800 is around 4xxxx serial


----------



## Yviena (Jan 25, 2020)

@JaZZ just curious but does your velvet mod alter any other frequencies than mostly 6khz, I'm wondering if a ADC , and measuring mic with some pink noise will be enough, or is a dummy head also needed to find the FR response?

On another note does it matter what type of velvet is used, I see stuff like polyester, cotton, and various blends etc.


----------



## JaZZ

Yviena said:


> @JaZZ just curious but does your velvet mod alter any other frequencies than mostly 6khz...


Yes, sure! It wasn't meant just to cure the 6-kHz excess, but for fighting some of the brightness, coldness and diffuseness of the original HD 800 which I attributed to reflections within the earpieces. Of course there was the hope that it would reduce the 6-kHz hump, and it was indeed successful in this respect; but the reflection damping affects the whole high-frequency range, since with the available space and the possible thickness of the damping material you can't hope to dampen much more than high-frequency reflections. Well, after all that's the most important range in an open headphone, since larger wavelengths will escape the critical zone quickly. As you can see, there's still the need for some EQ compensation at 6 kHz. Most likely because the reflections here aren't the real source of the resonance. It's probably the magnet system behind the membrane that's to blame, as it represents a serious acoustic obstacle – and a logical source of reflections. An ideal headphone has nothing in front and at the back of the membrane (not even a human ear, which will reflect the sound back to the driver/membrane, which will reflect it back to the ear, etc.), so that it can freely breath and won't suffer from compression effects.



> ...I'm wondering if a ADC and measuring mic with some pink noise will be enough, or is a dummy head also needed to find the FR response?


I'm not into measuring, so can't answer your question. Measuring headphones is problematic anyway, that's why I was never interested in it, the more so as I have a hard time believing someone starting with it can get reliable results, let alone better ones than the established testers. Different measuring arrays produce different curves, and then there's the problem with the (Harman) compensation curve which isn't standardized, add to this the own individual head-related transfer function (HRTF) which would require an overlayed compensation curve – but since the latter isn't known, any imaginable resulting curve will be hard to deal with. You can try it and try to correct it in the areas you find inappropriate – but you can just as well solely rely on your listening impressions. Of course having a passably trustworthy EQ curve at hand is better than none, as it gives a better starting point than building one from scratch. In this case using the Sonarworks curve (for an umodified HD 800) as another reference might be a good idea – if you don't fully trust my own implementation.



> On another note does it matter what type of velvet is used, I see stuff like polyester, cotton, and various blends etc.


I'm sure it does matter, and cotton is far softer (= less self-reflecting) than polyester. I think the velvet I'm using is made of cotton.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

To be honest I find my 800 ok for almost everything but certain female vocals. I have the RME DAC and it has parametric EQ so for the few offensive artists/songs I do use that rather than modding the headphone.


----------



## JaZZ

gimmeheadroom said:


> To be honest I find my 800 ok for almost everything but certain female vocals. I have the RME DAC and it has parametric EQ so for the few offensive artists/songs I do use that rather than modding the headphone.


That's a valid approach. However, equalizing won't help with the inevitable reflections on the bare surfaces within the earpieces. So don't underestimate the merits of this modification – if you want a signal as accurate as possible also in the time domain.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Sure that makes sense if the reflections are independently a problem. But if they are because of the 6KHz peak or made worse, you can kill two birds with one stone 

I don't know the answer but I would prefer not to modify my headphones at this price


----------



## Peti

Back in the, when first purchased these headphones, I was running them with an O2/ODAC. OUCH! Throughout the years I figured that with careful planning when building a rig around these cans you can get rid of the piercing highs sometimes you hear. The best I've heard was a tube cd player + DNA Stratus.


----------



## Heady Games (Jan 26, 2020)

Opps wrong thread


----------



## RCBinTN

Heady Games said:


> Opps wrong thread


And, just for fun, your first "like."


----------



## Yviena

@JaZZ is there any reason you don't use a parametric equaliser though, I think you could make a much more accurate equalisation that way.


----------



## yates7592

Shameless plug for my like new HD800 with 16 months warranty £650 shipped OBO:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-...ial-16-months-warranty-w-extra-cables.924087/


----------



## gimmeheadroom

That's a good price


----------



## JaZZ (Jan 28, 2020)

Yviena said:


> @JaZZ is there any reason you don't use a parametric equaliser though, I think you could make a much more accurate equalisation that way.


That's a legitimate question. The answer is «yes». Let's call it convenience. Since there's no published EQ curve I can rely on, I have to experiment on the basis of one that's passably close. For that I consider a ⅓-octave equalizer with fine 0.1-dB steps a better tool than a parametric equalizer. It's easier (for me) to find what sort of compensation is necessary, step by step. Finally reproducing the curve with a parametric equalizer would be the ideal scenario. But here's where convenience calls for its right. And in fact the resulting sound is already excellent enough. If there were some aggressive narrow-band peaks slipping through the cracks I would seriously have to reconsider my approach, though.

However, there's more to it than just convenience: Building a compensation curve for one of my headphones always takes time. I'm rather talking of months than of weeks. Add to this that modifying it as soon as something in the chain has changed makes it some sort of an ongoing occupation (the M Scaler and the Wave Storm cables have caused some sleepless nights – proverbially, but also literally). That's a further motive to just stick with the (excellent) _xnor graphic equalizer,_ at least for now. But maybe you can recommend a good parametric equalizer with an intuitive IU? Preferrably for _foobar2000_.

After all, for sound editing and crossfeeding on my music collection I use Wavelab's parametric equalizer.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Wait a minute, don't we get a USB stick with the frequency response curve of our specific pair of 800s in the package? I have one but I didn't look at it yet. If so we have all we need to do a correct job of killing any peaks etc. and parametric EQ is perfect for this.


----------



## Yviena

JaZZ said:


> That's a legitimate question. The answer is «yes». Let's call it convenience. Since there's no published EQ curve I can rely on, I have to experiment on the basis of one that's passably close. For that I consider a ⅓-octave equalizer with fine 0.1-dB steps a better tool than a parametric equalizer. It's easier (for me) to find what sort of compensation is necessary, step by step. Finally reproducing the curve with a parametric equalizer would be the ideal scenario. But here's where convenience calls for its right. And in fact the resulting sound is already excellent enough. If there were some aggressive narrow-band peaks slipping through the cracks I would seriously have to reconsider my approach, though.
> 
> However, there's more to it than just convenience: Building a compensation curve for one of my headphones always takes time. I'm rather talking of months than of weeks. Add to this that modifying it as soon as something in the chain has changed makes it some sort of an ongoing occupation (the M Scaler and the Wave Storm cables have caused some sleepless nights – proverbially, but also literally). That's a further motive to just stick with the (excellent) _xnor graphic equalizer,_ at least for now. But maybe you can recommend a good parametric equalizer with an intuitive IU? Preferrably for _foobar2000_.
> 
> After all, for sound editing and crossfeeding on my music collection I use Wavelab's parametric equalizer.



I believe there are convolver plugins for foobar2000, then you could use something like Room EQ Wizard(free), or accurate(payware) and just create a 352/384khz 32 bit mono WAV impulse file.


----------



## Yviena

gimmeheadroom said:


> Wait a minute, don't we get a USB stick with the frequency response curve of our specific pair of 800s in the package? I have one but I didn't look at it yet. If so we have all we need to do a correct job of killing any peaks etc. and parametric EQ is perfect for this.


The sennheiser frequency certificate that they give out is too smoothed out/low Res though.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Yviena said:


> The sennheiser frequency certificate that they give out is too smoothed out/low Res though.



Bummer


----------



## Dorick

Coming to the full sized cans world from iems (Sony ier z1r, Andromeda, etc), my first foray was the hd6xx. 

Is the hd800 still considered a good top tier headphone to get in the sub $1k range (used)? Or are there other better options now?


----------



## paradoxper

IMO nothing in the sub $1k range truly competes with the technicalities of the HD800. 

However, is the HD800 the type of signature befitting your sound preference is a bigger question, really.


----------



## protoss

Dorick said:


> Is the hd800 still considered a good top tier headphone



Yes, it is still top tier and will be on that list forever. Yes, you heard it forever. The only thing that will happen in the years down the road is, it will be forgotten, like the legendary headphones of the 90s. 

It comes to flavor at the end of the day. Bright, detail, thin vs others.


----------



## protoss

I notice "future headphones" will be vastly different than the ones of now. They will be top-tier and replace everything of today. 

1. Amps inside them, THX tech or other Amps and Dac chips inside the drivers. 
2. Bluetooth headphones will eventually take over. And replace conventional headphones of today. 
3. And other unknown soon to be reveal headphones of the years down the road.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

The 800 is not really a daily driver for most people. It's great to have in the arsenal but it's more of a specific tool and not the best generalist.

A person could buy a pair of HD 600s and be happy the rest of his life.


----------



## Dorick

gimmeheadroom said:


> The 800 is not really a daily driver for most people. It's great to have in the arsenal but it's more of a specific tool and not the best generalist.
> 
> A person could buy a pair of HD 600s and be happy the rest of his life.


Do u mean hd600 or hd650?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Dorick said:


> Do u mean hd600 or hd650?



You heard me 

I'm old fashioned and I'm not interested in attempts to change perfection. The 650, 6XX, 660 are just to sell something new. They nailed it with the 600. No need to change anything


----------



## eeagle

gimmeheadroom said:


> You heard me
> 
> I'm old fashioned and I'm not interested in attempts to change perfection. The 650, 6XX, 660 are just to sell something new. They nailed it with the 600. No need to change anything


Totally agree the HD600 is the Sennheiser Icon for sure.  You might also add the 58x to the above list, not to be confused with the original HD580 which was a HD600 in plastic clothes.


----------



## FiGuY1017

For me and my ears and system, i find my self fortunate as the 800 off my rig sounds huge, full and beautiful! Lucky me i guess lol


----------



## duyanh43

Just bought a HD800 today, pairing with my IFI Micro Bl. Can't go back to the 650 anymore...


----------



## Vitaly2017

If anyone is interested I got a very high quality cable 7N purity for all hd800 models.
Good price!


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wireworld-nano-eclipse-4-4mm-copper-100.887365/


----------



## joseph69

I may be interested in buying an original 800.
Can anyone confirm that the photo below is an authentic Sennheiser outer box sleeve with "HD 800 Crafted For Perfection" in red text? 
I've only seen the fine silver text which is written across the ear cup on their outer box sleeve. 
Thanks.


----------



## P+D-MI

Yes, it looks exactly like mine, #004xx.


----------



## joseph69

Thank you very much for the confirmation, I appreciate it.
Just pulled the trigger.


----------



## protoss

joseph69 said:


> I may be interested in buying an original 800.
> Can anyone confirm that the photo below is an authentic Sennheiser outer box sleeve with "HD 800 Crafted For Perfection" in red text?
> I've only seen the fine silver text which is written across the ear cup on their outer box sleeve.
> Thanks.




Yes its real. Here is mine


----------



## joseph69

Thank you as well.
Glad to see another with the red text. Mine should be arriving by the end of the week.


----------



## protoss

joseph69 said:


> Thank you as well.
> Glad to see another with the red text. Mine should be arriving by the end of the week.



The only problem is you might of got a 10 year old pair. I be interested in the S/N# ? 

My pair is s/n#000xx 

Sounds worn out and warm and tame in the highs. Feels like a million hours went through the drivers lol 

My favorite pair overall!


----------



## joseph69

protoss said:


> The only problem is you might of got a 10 year old pair. I be interested in the S/N# ?
> 
> My pair is s/n#000xx
> 
> ...


S/N 218xx so not to far behind yours.


----------



## dleblanc343

joseph69 said:


> S/N 218xx so not to far behind yours.


Protoss literally has one under S.N 100, that's impressive!

My first HD800 were 14xxx... sold them and now have a 32xxx on the way


----------



## RCBinTN

Y'all should read the legendary David "Mahler" review of flagship HPs from back in 2007. A bit old, I know, but his review of the HD800 is very interesting ... David claims there were (at that time) two different sound signatures to the headphone. He owned two pair ... SN 297 and 10333. I copied out his main point below. I own two pair myself, both in the SN 31xxx range and they sound identical. If you read his full review, scroll down - the HD800 are #6 on his list of flagship headphones.

_"I own two pairs of the HD800: serial #297 and serial #10333. Serial #297 was made during the first production run while serial #10333 was manufactured approximately two years later. Initially, I purchased a second pair because the headband of my original pair encountered a recurring squeak issue. Despite several repair attempts, this problem has never been resolved to my full satisfaction.

However, what I've found is that the two HD800s have some very noticeable sonic differences. The earlier pair (#297) has a fuller tone and is slightly more laid-back in the highs. This is, in my opinion, not a result of burn-in; I've owned the later pair for nearly two years and I still maintain this view. While many people are of the belief that there will always be differences from model to model (a belief I most certainly don't disagree with), I have had the opportunity to hear several early models and several later models of the HD800; in my opinion, the earlier ones have a slightly fuller tone. I am not certain as to when the sonic transition took place or what may have caused it._

_Despite the earlier model's fuller tone, if I had to pick which of the two pairs was my preference, I would choose the later. I feel that the later model (#10333) offers a greater degree of transparency and puts more air around the instruments. The noted differences are not so drastic, but I have done several blind tests and I always know which headphone is which."_

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared.634201/

Cheers,
RCB


----------



## paradoxper

Yes, subjective anecdotal data-points. Conversely many over the years have sent their HD800 to Purrin for measurements with consistent results.

Personally, I've owned 8 pairs of HD800 and felt their performance were quite consistent. Try this with an Audeze and you'll pull your hair out.


----------



## Ichos

Wow eight pairs!


----------



## paradoxper

Ichos said:


> Wow eight pairs!


But. Never again!


----------



## joseph69

paradoxper said:


> But. Never again!


Why is this?


----------



## paradoxper

joseph69 said:


> Why is this?


Time. I feel the HEDDphone is the true successor to the HD800.


----------



## joseph69

paradoxper said:


> Time. I feel the HEDDphone is the true successor to the HD800.


Interesting.
I just heard both, my HEDD and another members 800 via my WA33 this past weekend, which is what made me hunt down and purchase a BNIB NOS 800. I've borrowed the 800 +/-4yrs ago from The Cable Company 2x and always enjoyed them but never bought them (I don't know why?).
I them purchased the 800S (again, I don't know why?) and didn't care for it much so I let it go.


----------



## paradoxper

joseph69 said:


> Interesting.
> I just heard both, my HEDD and another members 800 via my WA33 this past weekend, which is what made me hunt down and purchase a BNIB NOS 800. I've borrowed the 800 +/-4yrs ago from The Cable Company 2x and always enjoyed them but never bought them (I don't know why?).
> I them purchased the 800S (again, I don't know why?) and didn't care for it much so I let it go.


That HD800 has long been a tricky-trickster.   

I think we have different tastes or ultimate preference.

No matter what, the HD800's large stage (slight diffuse issue) great detail and articulation has always been hampered by its peak character and more thin sound.

The HEDD is not quite as large (what is) but more enveloping than A,B,C and digs out greater detail whilst being slightly more punchy. 
The big 'successor' factors are its ability to remain ultra smooth in the treble and provide clearer mids with much more meat to the body.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts, regardless.


----------



## joseph69

paradoxper said:


> That HD800 has long been a tricky-trickster.
> 
> I think we have different tastes or ultimate preference.
> 
> ...


Here are my thoughts on the HEDD.
I just don't know why I wasn't hearing what others heard.
I do recall reading 1or 2 impressions that closely mimic my impressions, though, so maybe it's the pair I received as I mention in the link.


----------



## paradoxper

joseph69 said:


> Here are my thoughts on the HEDD.
> I just don't know why I wasn't hearing what others heard.
> I do recall reading 1or 2 impressions that closely mimic my impressions, though, so maybe it's the pair I received as I mention in the link.



At least now I can better understand where you're coming from.

It's always a wonder how we can perceive such different experiences.

And I have to refuse to believe in such unit variation and likely believe your ears just didn't gel.
Although Ironic that you could end up really preferring the HD800 signature, it would confirm such is the nature of subjectivity.


----------



## joseph69

paradoxper said:


> At least now I can better understand where you're coming from.
> 
> It's always a wonder how we can perceive such different experiences.
> 
> ...


Yeah, just weren't for me.


----------



## joseph69

I received the 800 Saturday and they went back to the seller today because they were not NOS BNIB. 
The frames were scratched and foam was missing from the inside of their box. Besides that, the ear pads & headband were like charcoal, 
they were literally disintegrating in my hands. Oh well.


----------



## paradoxper

joseph69 said:


> I received the 800 Saturday and they went back to the seller today because they were not NOS BNIB.
> The frames were scratched and foam was missing from the inside of their box. Besides that, the ear pads & headband were like charcoal,
> they were literally disintegrating in my hands. Oh well.


Did you make sure to huff and puff and cough, cough, cough all over them in retribution?


----------



## joseph69

paradoxper said:


> Did you make sure to huff and puff and cough, cough, cough all over them in retribution?


I probably would've inhaled the disintegrating foam and died in doing so.


----------



## paradoxper

joseph69 said:


> I probably would've inhaled the disintegrating foam and died in doing so.


Survival of the smartest.


----------



## dleblanc343

After quitting the HD800 camp for almost 3 years now, in favor of the HE6/Clear and HE1000v2 combo... followed by an HE1000se, K1000 and Susvara - I am now back on Sennheiser's team.

With Oratory1990's Harman correction EQ, on a stock HD800 (sdr or anax mod removed as it was worse); these scale to godly heights and have a listenable tuning.

Susvara is still my top headphone, but HD800 is right along its side and does some things better believe it or not.

HD800 is now more enjoyable than the likes of Empyrean, Utopia, HEKv2, LCD4. Not quite as good as a Stax 009 or 009S, but still a better product imho as it sounds better to the ear despite the technicalities.

I hate to say it, but EQ can be _good_.. and I really hate to say it; in this case it's *fantastic*.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

That's excellent news for me since I can't afford most of the cans you listed


----------



## dleblanc343

gimmeheadroom said:


> That's excellent news for me since I can't afford most of the cans you listed


Feel free to shoot me a PM


----------



## gimmeheadroom

dleblanc343 said:


> Feel free to shoot me a PM



Hell, these days I can't even afford a PM


----------



## uncletim

would any of those inexpensive THX amps wake up my old HD800's? now that I do not travel anymore I may want to listen to them.


----------



## johnjen

uncletim said:


> would any of those inexpensive THX amps wake up my old HD800's? now that I do not travel anymore I may want to listen to them.


This is where I get to say "try it and find out".
You just might be the only one who has…
And of course let us know what you find out.

JJ


----------



## gimmeheadroom

uncletim said:


> would any of those inexpensive THX amps wake up my old HD800's? now that I do not travel anymore I may want to listen to them.



I would guess they would not be a good pairing. The 800s definitely could stand some warming up.

If you're not travelling and you can get your hands on an OTL amp that would be the hot ticket for the 800s and 600 series as well.


----------



## eeagle

uncletim said:


> would any of those inexpensive THX amps wake up my old HD800's? now that I do not travel anymore I may want to listen to them.


Well its not THX rated but the last of the Sennheiser HDVD 800 Headphone Amps are now discounted to $999.99 which is Sennheisers own solution for the HD800.
I do have the Drop + THX Achromatic Audio Amplifier (THX AAA™) 789, teamed with their x Airist Audio R-2R DAC which warms the sterile but powerful sound of the 789 making for a nice listening experience as well. 

As a side note has anyone else had a problem with Amazon links here on Head-Fi?  Every time I make one like above it takes one to a Walmart listing??
not linking works though:
https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HDVD-800-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00BHBWWFW


----------



## Simple Man

I have a question about the HD800.
since I’ve tried the ‘S’ version I’m a kind of in love with the sound. But, here in the Netherlands a HD800s cost €1600,- which is a bit too much for me now.
I got a new 660s from a friend but this is not an 800.

my question: how much different is the original 800 compared to the later ‘S’ version?


----------



## johnjen

I have owned the original 800 since they were introduced and now own 2 pairs of them.
I have heard the 800S and wasn't enamored with the changes.

And my 800's are majorly modified which for me just makes the gap between the 800S and what I now have, even larger.

So I'd say try a used pair of the original 800 and if they don't work for you you can always sell them for what you paid and move on.

Just a possibility.

JJ


----------



## eeagle

@Simple Man @johnjen I have the HD800 and the HD600.  Although I have not owned the 800S or the 650, I have read numerous threads that like the original the best, and that influenced my decision to buy the original Sennheiser introduction models.  Improved is not necessarily better.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

eeagle said:


> @Simple Man @johnjen I have the HD800 and the HD600.  Although I have not owned the 800S or the 650, I have read numerous threads that like the original the best, and that influenced my decision to buy the original Sennheiser introduction models.  Improved is not necessarily better.



Same as my view.


----------



## RCBinTN (Mar 21, 2020)

Simple Man said:


> I have a question about the HD800.
> since I’ve tried the ‘S’ version I’m a kind of in love with the sound. But, here in the Netherlands a HD800s cost €1600,- which is a bit too much for me now.
> I got a new 660s from a friend but this is not an 800.
> 
> my question: how much different is the original 800 compared to the later ‘S’ version?


Since you already heard the 800S and like the sound, perhaps you can find a used pair nearby your location. They've been on the market for years now.

The 800 and 800S sound very different. I much prefer the 800 ... the 800S sound, to me, like the 800 with a sock stuffed inside (hence the "S").
I've also heard the closed version - the 820. A complete waste of time, unless you need closed HPs.

The 800 sound isn't for everyone - it can be bright and fatiguing unless properly driven. But, once done well, the 800 sound remarkable.
JJ knows more about modding the 800 than anybody else on the planet, in case you want advice. @johnjen.


----------



## protoss

RCBinTN said:


> the 800S sound, to me, like the 800 with a sock stuffed inside (hence the "S")



LOL!

Watch out, the HD800S ninjas will attack you 6000 times with knifes


----------



## RCBinTN

Yeah ... and it wouldn't be the first time


----------



## johnjen (Mar 21, 2020)

RCBinTN said:


> Since you already heard the 800S and like the sound, perhaps you can find a used pair nearby your location. They've been on the market for years now.
> 
> The 800 and 800S sound very different. I much prefer the 800 ... the 800S sound, to me, like the 800 with a sock stuffed inside (hence the "S").
> I've also heard the closed version - the 820. A complete waste of time, unless you need closed HPs.
> ...


Thanks for the compliment but I wonder if I know MORE…  
My approach is different that's for sure and I did dive WAY deep into this rabbit hole and have the T-shirt AND coffee mug to prove it.  

I must admit that my results delivered far more than I expected, so I'm a happy camper for sure.
And my mod did resolve down to just a few fairly 'simple' steps, even so it's a DIY project that requires a hands on approach.
And I was surprised that it 'cured' so many of the 'quirks' that the 800 has and with such delightful results all the way around.

JJ


----------



## RCBinTN

Well-written, John. 
I should have included a note about your DIY link (it's in his signature line, folks), and a disclaimer ... modding the HD800 can become addicting ... LOL.


----------



## TYATYA

protoss said:


> LOL!
> 
> Watch out, the HD800S ninjas will attack you 6000 times with knifes





Simple Man said:


> I have a question about the HD800.
> since I’ve tried the ‘S’ version I’m a kind of in love with the sound. But, here in the Netherlands a HD800s cost €1600,- which is a bit too much for me now.
> I got a new 660s from a friend but this is not an 800.
> 
> my question: how much different is the original 800 compared to the later ‘S’ version?



S version reduce 5.5k peak but bass is not as real as that of 800. Overal is warmer.
800 bass like a speaker w/o sub.
I use my 800s with out black dust cover (not sure if it absorb the tiny detail or detail obtain more with interactive direct on metal mesh).
Non S synergy to an amp not so well. Try and try to pair. 
ErternalArt tube amp has good match


----------



## johnjen (Mar 21, 2020)

And as an aside, there are only 3) 800-Jmods (at least that I know of) thus far, with a 4th and 5th in the works.
It'll be interesting to get impressions when these last 2) 800-Jmods are finished and I get impressions back.

And when I get suitably motivated I have a nearly new pair of HD700's just waiting for me to apply the overshoot correction to, as well.
I figure they may respond even better (relatively speaking) than the 800's did, and come alive.
A hidden treasure, just waiting to be discovered.

And for those so motivated here is the direct link to the 800-Jmod posts…
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-diyrs-cookbook.781268/page-90#post-14608836
This is the 3rd post with the links to the first 2.

JJ


----------



## Simple Man

Thank you all for your reply, most of them are very helpfull.
Now I only have to wait for a nice affordable 800 to give it a try.
what surprise me (a lot), is that there are 2 ‘camps’. Even the local seller is in the ‘S’ camp, must be a economical choice, the first 800 should be too bright and sharp.
I would like to take the risk and will go for the HD800.

thanks so far.
Now I‘ll try to read this topic completely.
Hope to find more usefull info!
Arno


----------



## robo24

I got two used 800 models to compare the one with SDR to stock. Both were excellent, but as much as I wanted to prefer stock, I preferred the SDR one and sold the stock version. I have the 820, which I prefer over the 800, 800S, and 800 SDR. Have never understood all the hate for it, aside from the price.


----------



## johnjen

I recently had a chance to hear the 820's at a meet.
I was pleasantly surprised at the SQ, but not $2500 worth of surprise.
And granted I'd need much more time with a pair, at home driven by my setup to determination their merits, even so they seem like they have potential.

And as a point of comparison my 800-Jmods are far and away a major mutha may I step up compared to the others, but then I'm biased.
Even so when fed from the 'proper' chain, I'd take the straight 800's over all of it's variants.

And the dampened 800S's don't address the overshoot issue, but try to mask it.
Mostly because dampening, much like closed back drivers, are at an immediate disadvantage, at least in my estimation.

JJ


----------



## joseph69

Bought another HD800 'like new open box' from a private seller.
Hopefully this is a good one because I'd really like to have this headphone.
I enjoyed it every time I've heard it (in home) but went on to other headphones and never got around to buying it new 'til it was too late.


----------



## whirlwind

joseph69 said:


> Bought another HD800 'like new open box' from a private seller.
> Hopefully this is a good one because I'd really like to have this headphone.
> I enjoyed it every time I've heard it (in home) but went on to other headphones and never got around to buying it new 'til it was too late.




Would be interested in hearing your comments on this headphone with your new tube amp.
I found this headphone much more enjoyable with my OTL tube amp than my SS amp.


----------



## joseph69

whirlwind said:


> Would be interested in hearing your comments on this headphone with your new tube amp.
> I found this headphone much more enjoyable with my OTL tube amp than my SS amp.


Hey Joe,

If you remember, a while back I borrowed the HD800 from TCC due to you telling me how much you really enjoyed yours, and I felt the same way after hearing them, but as I mentioned, I just never got around to buying them.

I've read the HD800 pairs well with OTL amps, but I've heard both, the 800 and a modded 800 on my WA33 within the past month and both sounded spectacular which is why I feel these are a must to own.
I'll keep you posted on how they pair with the Citadel. I was reading the FS forums and see that you've sold yours after all this time?


----------



## paradoxper

He'll buy them again. We all do.


----------



## whirlwind

joseph69 said:


> Hey Joe,
> 
> If you remember, a while back I borrowed the HD800 from TCC due to you telling me how much you really enjoyed yours, and I felt the same way after hearing them, but as I mentioned, I just never got around to buying them.
> 
> ...



Yes, I did sell mine some time back, I liked them a lot,but they were getting the least amount of head time.


----------



## whirlwind

paradoxper said:


> He'll buy them again. We all do.



Well, I will never say never


----------



## ruthieandjohn

joseph69 said:


> Bought another HD800 'like new open box' from a private seller.
> Hopefully this is a good one because I'd really like to have this headphone.
> I enjoyed it every time I've heard it (in home) but went on to other headphones and never got around to buying it new 'til it was too late.


Congratulations!  Much as I LOVE my Grados, and have a variety of other top tier headphones like the HiFiMAN HE 1000 and Ultrasone Edition 10, it is my Sennheiser HD800 (with the HDVD 800 DAC/amp) that I would never part with!


----------



## joseph69

ruthieandjohn said:


> Congratulations!  Much as I LOVE my Grados, and have a variety of other top tier headphones like the HiFiMAN HE 1000 and Ultrasone Edition 10, it is my Sennheiser HD800 (with the HDVD 800 DAC/amp) that I would never part with!


Thank you, John.
I can't wait to receive them!


----------



## musicinmymind

I wanted to buy an portable amp for HD800, not for on go, just to be mobile enough to move within home.

Any recommendation on best paring portable amp will be helpful.


----------



## joseph69

Received another pair of 800's from a seller claiming to have only used them once and described them as 'open box/like new'.
I took a shot and purchased them, and they're absolutely in this exact condition, like new.
Very glad I took another chance purchasing an 800. I'm enjoying them right now single ended via my WA33 and they sound excellent right out of the box, Tomorrow I'll terminate the stock cable to XLR.

On another note, the first pair I bought & returned ($989.00) I'm having an issue with the seller refunding me, as well as PayPal taking my side even though I provided everything they asked for and even an email from the seller telling me to "return the to their address and telling me *I'll refund you immediately*, sorry for any inconveniences". My credit card company is already aware and I'm going to go this route. What a shame.


----------



## joseph69

So it seems whoever was investigating my PP case for my refund of ($989.00) overlooked the email I sent quoting the seller had offered me the refund after I shipped back the headphones. I found this out this morning when I called PP and asked if they missed this (?!) and they reviewed the information I submitted again between the seller & I while I waited on hold, and then immediately refunded my account with an apology.


----------



## 491838

dleblanc343 said:


> After quitting the HD800 camp for almost 3 years now, in favor of the HE6/Clear and HE1000v2 combo... followed by an HE1000se, K1000 and Susvara - I am now back on Sennheiser's team.
> 
> With Oratory1990's Harman correction EQ, on a stock HD800 (sdr or anax mod removed as it was worse); these scale to godly heights and have a listenable tuning.
> 
> ...


But did you try any of those other ones with EQ?

I kinda want to try the HD800 in the near future, also with EQ. I have an LCD-2F but I don't particularly like timbre and imaging on them even with EQ. Maybe the HD800 is better but I'm worried its bass will be a significant downgrade compared to the LCD-2F. Is the HD800 bass bloated like other dynamics or is it similarly clean to a planar?


----------



## johnjen

In my experience using parametric EQ on the 800's, my aim is try to use as little as possible and also try to keep it at 6db or less.
Of course there are exceptions, even so the 6dB 'semi-limitation' is a good starting point.

And also reduce the overall level by the same amount, when you add any boost.
IOW if I add a 6dB boost to the bass, I will reduce the overall level by 6dB.
This helps keep transients from digitally clipping etc.

Just my 2¢

JJ


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Apr 5, 2020)

Dealux said:


> But did you try any of those other ones with EQ?
> 
> I kinda want to try the HD800 in the near future, also with EQ. I have an LCD-2F but I don't particularly like timbre and imaging on them even with EQ. Maybe the HD800 is better but I'm worried its bass will be a significant downgrade compared to the LCD-2F. Is the HD800 bass bloated like other dynamics or is it similarly clean to a planar?



Which 800? 800 or 800S?

Personally I can live without EQing the 800 on most of what I listen to. They are a little much with some female vocals though. The quality of bass on the 800 is outstanding. It is just not boosted and does not slam like a pair of LCDs.

I can't see having either the LCD or the 800/S. The LCDs are better all-rounders than the 800 but the 800 does some things better. You really need to have both


----------



## Senndo

Does anyone have experience pairing the HD800S with a 780D streaming DAC and 430HA?


----------



## potkettleblack (Apr 6, 2020)

Hi

does anybody know how to safely clean the outer grills of the cups on the HD800? The sensitive part.


----------



## 491838

gimmeheadroom said:


> Which 800? 800 or 800S?
> 
> Personally I can live without EQing the 800 on most of what I listen to. They are a little much with some female vocals though. The quality of bass on the 800 is outstanding. It is just not boosted and does not slam like a pair of LCDs.
> 
> I can't see having either the LCD or the 800/S. The LCDs are better all-rounders than the 800 but the 800 does some things better. You really need to have both


I meant the other headphones you listed. If you tried them with EQ.

Are they aggressive on female vocals with EQ? I'm also expecting the bass to be a bit bloated above 100 Hz like many dynamics are. Planars sound much more coherent through that region due to lack of distortion and possibly the flat impedance curve.

I think there might be too many things about the LCD-2 that I don't like, like the timbre and some weird resonances that cannot be removed via EQ (probably the leather pads do something weird to the sound). If the HD800 is technically superior in most ways then maybe I'd enjoy it more.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Apr 6, 2020)

Dealux said:


> I meant the other headphones you listed. If you tried them with EQ.
> 
> Are they aggressive on female vocals with EQ? I'm also expecting the bass to be a bit bloated above 100 Hz like many dynamics are. Planars sound much more coherent through that region due to lack of distortion and possibly the flat impedance curve.
> 
> I think there might be too many things about the LCD-2 that I don't like, like the timbre and some weird resonances that cannot be removed via EQ (probably the leather pads do something weird to the sound). If the HD800 is technically superior in most ways then maybe I'd enjoy it more.



Sorry, I'm losing context. The 800 is a technical headphone, analytical. I don't think anybody would be happy only with a pair of 800s. No bass bloat. Female vocals can be tamed on the 800s with judicious use of preferably paramateric EQ.

The LCD-2C is a good all-rounder. The LCD house sound is warm, there is nothing offensive at all about them. And they slam pretty well. There is nothing wrong with the pads but I also don't believe cables have sound or that pad rolling is a good use of my time and money. If I have to spend the rest of my life modding a pair of cans I won't buy them in the first place.

Bottom line is these two headphones are coming from opposite ends of the spectrum although LCD-2C is a lot closer to the imaginary middle than the 800s are. I think they're complementary and both excel at different things.


----------



## 491838

gimmeheadroom said:


> The LCD-2C is a good all-rounder. The LCD house sound is warm, there is nothing offensive at all about them. And they slam pretty well. There is nothing wrong with the pads but I also don't believe cables have sound or that pad rolling is a good use of my time and money. If I have to spend the rest of my life modding a pair of cans I won't buy them in the first place.
> 
> Bottom line is these two headphones are coming from opposite ends of the spectrum although LCD-2C is a lot closer to the imaginary middle than the 800s are. I think they're complementary and both excel at different things.


I have the 2 Fazor and they are somewhat offensive. They have ringing in the presence region. It affects vocals to some degree and pianos. It causes them to sound shouty or klangy at times and honestly the timbre even post EQ isn't all that great. They do sound like speakers in a sense but they lose some of the focus of other headphones which makes them crappy for binaural recordings in particular (imaging is not very cohesive or clear). Yeah, I wouldn't change the pads either because that could have far worse consequences and with no clear FR I can't EQ them properly.

I've just been wondering if the HD800 was better in the ways that the LCD-2F is lackluster (weird timbre, unfocused imaging, slightly resonant upper mids/treble). The LCD-2 is good but is in fact a downgrade in some ways compared to other things I've owned or still own.


----------



## Thenewguy007

potkettleblack said:


> Hi
> 
> does anybody know how to safely clean the outer grills of the cups on the HD800? The sensitive part.



Use either alcohol wipes or lightly moist cotton balls to gently wipe away any dirt.





gimmeheadroom said:


> Sorry, I'm losing context. The 800 is a technical headphone, analytical. I don't think anybody would be happy only with a pair of 800s. No bass bloat. Female vocals can be tamed on the 800s with judicious use of preferably paramateric EQ.
> 
> The LCD-2C is a good all-rounder. The LCD house sound is warm, there is nothing offensive at all about them



I had the LCD-2 & I don't think they compared to the HD800 in any way. The thinness & bass light of the HD800 is strictly on the amplifier used. The cheap stuff (even from Sennheiser themselves) are just not good enough for the HD800 & they will sound underpowered, bright & lacking in bass.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Apr 6, 2020)

Dealux said:


> I have the 2 Fazor and they are somewhat offensive. They have ringing in the presence region. It affects vocals to some degree and pianos. It causes them to sound shouty or klangy at times and honestly the timbre even post EQ isn't all that great. They do sound like speakers in a sense but they lose some of the focus of other headphones which makes them crappy for binaural recordings in particular (imaging is not very cohesive or clear). Yeah, I wouldn't change the pads either because that could have far worse consequences and with no clear FR I can't EQ them properly.
> 
> I've just been wondering if the HD800 was better in the ways that the LCD-2F is lackluster (weird timbre, unfocused imaging, slightly resonant upper mids/treble). The LCD-2 is good but is in fact a downgrade in some ways compared to other things I've owned or still own.



I haven't noticed any ringing with the 2C. I got a pair of 3Fs recently but they're in another country, I don't have much time on them. Timbre is as good as it gets with the 800, imaging is good to very good. I haven't listened to so-called binaural recordings but with music I'm used to the 800s make a difference. I don't notice any resonance but the treble peak is there and can be annoying on some recordings. I can't recommend the 800 as a daily driver. To me it should be in the arsenal and there are times it will bring joy.



Thenewguy007 said:


> I had the LCD-2 & I don't think they compared to the HD800 in any way. The thinness & bass light of the HD800 is strictly on the amplifier used. The cheap stuff (even from Sennheiser themselves) are just not good enough for the HD800 & they will sound underpowered, bright & lacking in bass.



I agree with this. I have often said that people who don't like a pair of 600s and think they sound meh aren't feeding them enough quality power. When Sennheiser 600 or 800s sound like crap the first place to point the finger is at the amp driving them. They're very sensitive to amplification and scale amazingly.


----------



## potkettleblack

Thenewguy007 said:


> Use either alcohol wipes or lightly moist cotton balls to gently wipe away any dirt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## 491838

gimmeheadroom said:


> I haven't noticed any ringing with the 2C. I got a pair of 3Fs recently but they're in another country, I don't have much time on them. Timbre is as good as it gets with the 800, imaging is good to very good. I haven't listened to so-called binaural recordings but with music I'm used to the 800s make a difference. I don't notice any resonance but the treble peak is there and can be annoying on some recordings. I can't recommend the 800 as a daily driver. To me it should be in the arsenal and there are times it will bring joy.


Yeah, I found the issue on my LCD-2 Fazor. It's the freaking leather pads. I always hated the idea of leather being used on pads and now I know why. It absolutely colors the sound. Another internet friend has the 2C and he heard something similar with the different Audeze pads (leather, pleather, vegan, etc). It sounds like the sound comes from a tunnel almost, like you're aware that there is an enclosure where the sound is coming from. It's kinda subtle but very annoying in many instances.

I might as well just get the HD800 then. I've never had a bad experience with velour/microfiber pads and I'll probably stay away from higher end stuff with leather pads for now. I guess the Susvara isn't 100% leather so those might work but they're super pricey.


----------



## joseph69

Thenewguy007 said:


> The thinness & bass light of the HD800 is strictly on the amplifier used.


+1


----------



## johnjen

In my experience it’s the sum total of the amp, dac, cables, ac power delivery, EQ, program material, etc. etc.
But then I am aiming for sub 20Hz performance all the way up, which does stretch the edges of the envelope a tad.

JJ


----------



## joseph69

Wow, I'm super, super late to the HD800 party, don't know why I waited so long after selling my 800S to buy the 800. 
Enjoying these very, very much via WA33. Waiting on a 3m Cardas Clear Dual 3-Pin XLR to arrive to compare to the stock cable that I terminated to XLR. These sound great with the stock cable, but I want to hear how they can sound by pushing the envelope a bit.


----------



## Lord Raven

I am kind of late to the sennheiser mod party, I just need to know what the consensus on mod? Anaxilus mod, resonator mod? I'm so confused, all these mods threads are dead so thought to ask for help here. I need to improve the bass, that's all. My sennheiser HD800 only has maybe less than 100 hours on them. TIA


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I use hardware EQ on mine and then only for about 5-10% of what I listen to. I can't see modding them...


----------



## JaZZ

Lord Raven said:


> I am kind of late to the sennheiser mod party, I just need to know what the consensus on mod? Anaxilus mod, resonator mod? I'm so confused, all these mods threads are dead so thought to ask for help here. I need to improve the bass, that's all. My sennheiser HD800 only has maybe less than 100 hours on them. TIA


My recommendation _(the Original!)_. Sadly all images have gone lost with the change to the new homepage.

Highly recommended also: adequate equalizing (works wonders especially for the bass).


----------



## Peti

I have sent in my HD800 for the Stefan Audio Ultimate mod. I've heard nothing but praises regarding this mod. Hopefully I will get it back by next week. I also asked them to hard-wire my Cardas Clear cable to the headphones.


----------



## johnjen

Of all of the mods I had tried, the SAA mods and hardwired cable were the most significant.
Until I fussed with modding my 800's and came up with e 800-Jmod.
But then I'm biased…

JJ


----------



## Lord Raven (Apr 18, 2020)

Is there a single best mod?


----------



## Svstem

Out of curiosity, I have picked apart the differences between an early (SN 084xx) and late (SN 429xx) production HD 800, both of which were purchased brand new for the purpose of comparison. As it turns out, there are very significant differences between them, both physically and sonically, and I have outlined in depth in this full analysis on my blog (measurements and photos included)

https://systematicsound.wordpress.com/2020/04/25/sennheiser-hd-800-review-early-vs-late/


----------



## Lord Raven

Mine is 48xxx and still trying to tame it


----------



## sup27606

Svstem said:


> Out of curiosity, I have picked apart the differences between an early (SN 084xx) and late (SN 429xx) production HD 800, both of which were purchased brand new for the purpose of comparison. As it turns out, there are very significant differences between them, both physically and sonically, and I have outlined in depth in this full analysis on my blog (measurements and photos included)
> 
> https://systematicsound.wordpress.com/2020/04/25/sennheiser-hd-800-review-early-vs-late/



Wow! You have written a whole manuscript on this thing. You have been meticulous and thorough. Good job! I am the owner of an early HD800, sn 057xx and agree with the bright treble peak and articulate bass. In fact, the HD800 bass is one of the most detailed and textured I have heard. Using a warm dap like Hiby R6 pro, it’s also possible to feel the punch and air moving with the bass along with the texture.

One question, your FR graphs are the result of how many independent measurements and do you have any error estimation for them? Treble measurements as far as I know, is influenced by the headphone placement in the measurement rig.

I wonder if our Skull and skin elasticity may also emphasize the small bass difference that you measured, since bass perception varies depending on loudness. You must have used the same volume level while comparing the old and the new, but I wonder if the owners of older HD800s turn down the volume a bit to avoid the sharp treble and so the bass sounds even leaner. Anyway, just speculating.


----------



## GU1DO

Svstem said:


> Out of curiosity, I have picked apart the differences between an early (SN 084xx) and late (SN 429xx) production HD 800, both of which were purchased brand new for the purpose of comparison. As it turns out, there are very significant differences between them, both physically and sonically, and I have outlined in depth in this full analysis on my blog (measurements and photos included)
> 
> https://systematicsound.wordpress.com/2020/04/25/sennheiser-hd-800-review-early-vs-late/


Thank you for the great work


----------



## Svstem

Lord Raven said:


> Mine is 48xxx and still trying to tame it


Definitely still is a bright headphone after the revision, but definitely more tolerable especially with the right source and positioning!


----------



## Svstem

Thank you very much for reading!



sup27606 said:


> One question, your FR graphs are the result of how many independent measurements and do you have any error estimation for them? Treble measurements as far as I know, is influenced by the headphone placement in the measurement rig.



You are correct, treble measurements, _especially_ on the HD 800 (which has a massive front volume) are extremely reactive to treble. In fact, the main difference that can be seen with positioning in the treble is that the peaks are displaced. For example, one peak at 7.5 kHz might be located at 9 kHz with different positioning, depending on the angle at which the front wave hits the artificial ear. I have done my best to position both headphones in exactly the same way (notably by taking pictures of one headphone on the rig and attempting to emulate on the other). Since the peaks on both headphones seem to be placed in the same frequencies, I would say the positioning was, at the very least, very close! If you would like an exact number, I have taken five measurements of each pair and kept the best ones (matched peaks and lowest noise floor). 



sup27606 said:


> I wonder if our Skull and skin elasticity may also emphasize the small bass difference that you measured, since bass perception varies depending on loudness. You must have used the same volume level while comparing the old and the new, but I wonder if the owners of older HD800s turn down the volume a bit to avoid the sharp treble and so the bass sounds even leaner. Anyway, just speculating.



Lowering the volume could definitely make the headphones sound more bass-shy and I could definitely see people listening to the original at a quieter volume to avoid the piercing treble so there's possibility of an interplay here. However, for the purposes of this comparison, I have volume matched both headphones at 300 Hz to perform my listening (using the SPL meter function on my MiniDSP EARS), and there definitely was an audible difference in perceived bass quantity and especially texture!


----------



## Svstem

GU1DO said:


> Thank you for the great work


Thank you for taking the time to look through it.


----------



## Peti

I just got my HD800 back from Stefan Audio where did they the ultra mod and hardwired my cable to it. I'm quite impressed. More clarity and less sibilance along with an even wider soundstage.


----------



## Lord Raven

Svstem said:


> Definitely still is a bright headphone after the revision, but definitely more tolerable especially with the right source and positioning!


Thanks for the excellent write up! I read it all and I concur. I had HD 600 and then Beyerdynamic Tesla T1. Tesla T1 users believe that an earlier serial is more musical so I found a 5xxx model and enjoyed it before I bought a brand new HD800. I think I made a mistake when I traded mu Tesla T1. 

I have a nice tube amp and two very basic DACs, Chord Mojo and Cambridge Audio DAC Magic 100. I enjoy the music but when I try to crank it up, it kills my hearing, it become intolerable. That's the only thing I don't like about it. I play DSD level and still the issue is there. I wish to fix it but someone suggested to EQ it from the software, I'll try that next. I am thinking to rip it open and perform the Super Dupont mod. Because that is what is different between HD800 and S version. Let me know of your thoughts. Thanks


----------



## sup27606

Svstem said:


> If you would like an exact number, I have taken five measurements of each pair and kept the best ones (matched peaks and lowest noise floor).



That sounds very reasonable. The treble resonance peaks are a big factor in how the HD800 sounds, that’s the big source of debate among the modders, who have worked to attenuate the peaks using various means. The superdupont mod benefits the early HD800, although it’s not as effective as the HD800S. It’s interesting to see how sensitive these peaks are to head position.

It’s surprising, some amps completely or mostly negate the treble peak, like the amp inside the Hiby dap or some very high end tube amps which I haven't heard. Not sure how they do that, certainly they don’t contain any negative treble peak in their frequency response.


----------



## johnjen

I too have 2 pairs of 800's.  My 'early' pair (s/n 52xx) and older pair (s/n 40K).
And yes the Senn supplied frequency graphs are different.
And yes, I too found differences in their construction both of the drivers themselves as well as the rest of the structure.
Still the audible differences when stock were not all that great, despite the Senn. frequency graphs (which are nearly worthless IMO).

Which leads me to the topic of unit to unit variability, regardless of manufacture date.
And statistically speaking a sample of one early and one later production examples is insufficient to claim that this variation applies to all of these early vs later production examples.

If it were possible to measure 'many' pairs of 800's with a scattered distribution across the entire production run, these unit to unit variations would become clearer, and perhaps a true picture of any production run changes would emerge.
And then again, perhaps not.

And the oft claimed frequency aberrations in the 6KHz to 8KHz portion of the frequency response is not the primary culprit for their 'harshness', at least not in my opinion, which is based upon my years of fussing with these HP's.
It certainly is easy to assume such, what with the peak in that band sticking out over the rest of the FR graph.

But I have found that the single most egregious contributor to this 'Listener Fatigue'  issue is the amount of leading edge overshoot that is purposely designed into them.
I have termed this the "Sales Enhancement Tool" which was used to 'help' sell them.
And this "Sales Enhancement Tool" is widely used by most HP manufacturers, and in my opinion much to their as well as our detriment.

And it was the SAA mods that 'clued' me onto this issue of Listener Fatigue and it's sources, in the 1st place.

Just my 2¢ worth of observations.

JJ


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I switched out the Lisst in my mjolnir for amperex 1968 and the sound is smoother and more pleasant. They were made for Wagner—the Thielemann Parsifal is luxurious.


----------



## Svstem

Lord Raven said:


> I wish to fix it but someone suggested to EQ it from the software, I'll try that next. I am thinking to rip it open and perform the Super Dupont mod. Because that is what is different between HD800 and S version. Let me know of your thoughts. Thanks



The EQ is actually a pretty viable solution for the HD 800, but it doesn't fully fix some of its issues (namely the plasticky timbre and slightly inarticulate bass). However, if you want to make it less fatiguing, I think that's a great option.

Also, remember that positioning matters! If you place your ears towards the back of the ear cups, the headphone becomes a bit warmer.

As for the SDR, I had a chance to listen to an SDR modded pair recently, and found it a bit less metallic than stock, so that's a good option too. Just be careful about applying it correctly, because doing so differently on either side can cause a channel imbalance at 6 kHz. I personally never felt too compelled to apply it, but it is a possibility.

Have fun, and best of luck finding what suits you!


----------



## Svstem (Apr 26, 2020)

johnjen said:


> I too have 2 pairs of 800's.  My 'early' pair (s/n 52xx) and older pair (s/n 40K).
> And yes the Senn supplied frequency graphs are different.
> And yes, I too found differences in their construction both of the drivers themselves as well as the rest of the structure.
> Still the audible differences when stock were not all that great, despite the Senn. frequency graphs (which are nearly worthless IMO).
> ...


Thanks for your input and observations JJ! Just a question, did your 52xx pair have original ear pads, or were they replaced.

Someone else actually commented on the possibility of unit variance - it's definitely possible and I would actually love to see measurements of multiple pairs with the same rig, positioning and methodology. However, I still think the possibiliy of a retune is more likely. Here is what I replied:

"Over the years, I have (somehow) owned a total of five HD 800. Serial numbers were 084xx, 20xxx, 32xxx, 36xxx and 42xxx, and I've listened to a friend's 49xxx. The later five all sounded pretty much the same, which is very different from the 084xx unit reviewed here.

It's also worth noting that the 084xx pair is the only one with differences in the ear pads and damping (which goes beyond the realm of simple variance), and with all the reports of post ~15-17xxx units sounding different, it seems very likely that Sennheiser performed an intentional retune."

Of course, a lot of weight for these claims lies on anecdotal evidence, but I still think it has some legitimacy. Still, the ideal way to answer our questions would be, as you said, a complete analysis with many pairs of different production runs.


----------



## johnjen

Svstem said:


> Thanks for your input and observations JJ! Just a question, did your 52xx pair have original ear pads, or were they replaced.
> snip


I bought the 52xx pair new, but have since replaced the pads numerous times since then, and all with Senn replacement pads.
As such I have not noticed much if any significant differences between the well used previous pads and the new replacement pads.

I did notice a very obvious difference (and not to my liking at that) when I tried a pair of the fenestrated Dekoni pads however.

And 800's are, by their very nature, reflective of the entire upstream system, ac power, cables, dac, amp, etc.
And by reflective I mean they WILL present the strengths and weaknesses of the signal being fed them.
This is often misunderstood as the 'fault' of the 800's themselves.
Which isn't to say that they don't have their fair share of foibles, but when a user adds a SotA component into an existing system, often its merely doing it's job of passing along the existing SQ idiosyncrasies and gets blamed for them as such.

This points at a common problem all who are on the upgrade path can and do run into, that being sleuthing out the real culprit of why the SQ went sideways when a 'better' component is introduced into the system.

Such are but some of the challenges we all face in our pursuit of better SQ.

JJ


----------



## o7brother

I've found that the HD800 responds fairly well to EQ, so many gripes with the slight brightness of it can be addressed via software to a large extent.

I eventually moved on to Stax because I feel they resolve better than the HD800, though it remains unmatched in terms of soundstage size.


----------



## thecrow

Lord Raven said:


> Thanks for the excellent write up! I read it all and I concur. I had HD 600 and then Beyerdynamic Tesla T1. Tesla T1 users believe that an earlier serial is more musical so I found a 5xxx model and enjoyed it before I bought a brand new HD800. I think I made a mistake when I traded mu Tesla T1.
> 
> I have a nice tube amp and two very basic DACs, Chord Mojo and Cambridge Audio DAC Magic 100. I enjoy the music but when I try to crank it up, it kills my hearing, it become intolerable. That's the only thing I don't like about it. I play DSD level and still the issue is there. I wish to fix it but someone suggested to EQ it from the software, I'll try that next. I am thinking to rip it open and perform the Super Dupont mod. Because that is what is different between HD800 and S version. Let me know of your thoughts. Thanks


a few years back i did the anax mod and that was a great touch for me  I would strongly recommend that as the first thing to do if looking to tame the hd800.  Cheap. Reversible. Easy.

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod-page-2

I never really took to the hd800s when i demoed it. the balance was not what i wanted or was used to (ie the hd800)

having said that,,,,i also built my system a round the hd800 (woo wa2 and metrum hex dac)


----------



## RCBinTN

I was considering the Dakoni pads for my HD800, as I like the design of those pads, but I read somewhere (was that from you @johnjen?) that they changed the sound of the HD800 and not in a good way. My two pair of (35,xxx) HD800 still have the original pads on them.


----------



## bearFNF (May 11, 2020)

I know you didn't ask me, but I am going to respond anyway: 

I tried the all the Dekoni pads (except Velour, thought the hybrid would be similar??):
First off they are WAY easier to install than the stock pads.
Elite Sheepskin - liked these the best and are still on the headphones
Elite Hybrid - did not like these - comfort wise or sound wise
Elite Fenestrated Sheepskin - changed the sound too much.

check these posts (and others in the discussion) for details:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread.650510/page-1760#post-13946993
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread.650510/page-1760#post-13947063


RCBinTN said:


> I was considering the Dakoni pads for my HD800, as I like the design of those pads, but I read somewhere (was that from you @johnjen?) that they changed the sound of the HD800 and not in a good way. My two pair of (35,xxx) HD800 still have the original pads on them.


----------



## RCBinTN

bearFNF said:


> I know you didn't ask me, but I am going to respond anyway:
> 
> I tried the all the Dekoni pads (except Velour, thought the hybrid would be similar??):
> First off they are WAY easier to install than the stock pads.
> ...


Thank you, Dr. Bear, very useful information! 
Now I have an option for when my stock pads wear out.
I think it was the fenestrated pads that I'd heard bad comments about, and you've confirmed it!
Happy Listening,
RCB


----------



## pbui44

bearFNF said:


> I know you didn't ask me, but I am going to respond anyway:
> 
> I tried the all the Dekoni pads (except Velour, thought the hybrid would be similar??):
> First off they are WAY easier to install than the stock pads.
> ...



I recently tried these Accessory House Global sheepskin ear pads out on my HD800:

https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Sennheiser-HD800-HD800S-Sheepskin/dp/B07MXB8XKQ

and felt the same way as you with your Dekoni Elite Sheepskin ear pads.  If the HD800 drivers and earcups were not sensitive with amping, then ear pad thickness would not matter to me, which is why I picked the Accessory House Global sheepskin ear pads.  Oh yeah, they are $40/pair, too.


----------



## Lord Raven

thecrow said:


> a few years back i did the anax mod and that was a great touch for me  I would strongly recommend that as the first thing to do if looking to tame the hd800.  Cheap. Reversible. Easy.
> 
> https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod-page-2
> 
> ...


 
Hi thecrow, thanks for your guidance. If anax mod is so good, why do I have to consider if it is reversible or not? Also, I feel my HD800 lacks bass. What mod improves the bass? I am using a tube amp with chord mojo, the detail is exceptional, I hear everything and forget my tinnitus 

I think I will try the anax, on the super audio forum, they rev about it. They use a ear foam pad in the anax.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Lord Raven said:


> Hi thecrow, thanks for your guidance. If anax mod is so good, why do I have to consider if it is reversible or not? Also, I feel my HD800 lacks bass. What mod improves the bass? I am using a tube amp with chord mojo, the detail is exceptional, I hear everything and forget my tinnitus
> 
> I think I will try the anax, on the super audio forum, they rev about it. They use a ear foam pad in the anax.



The 800 does not lack bass. What it lacks is overemphasized bass. Some OTLs do better than solid state amps. Which tube amp are you using?

Listen to some cello or orchestral kettle drums and you will be happy with the bass.


----------



## thecrow

Lord Raven said:


> If anax mod is so good, why do I have to consider if it is reversible or not?


is that a serious question?

if so, how the f would i know what someone else likes 

my opinion and preferences are just mine and I’m certainly never going to tell anyone that their preferences are wrong

if it’s tongue in cheek than i simply smile and wink 
The only certainties in life: Death and taxes


----------



## thecrow

gimmeheadroom said:


> The 800 does not lack bass. What it lacks is overemphasized bass. Some OTLs do better than solid state amps. Which tube amp are you using?
> 
> Listen to some cello or orchestral kettle drums and you will be happy with the bass.


I have the hd800 with a woo wa2 and metrum hex dac. Plus a norne silver draug and a norne copper cable. My audio set up which was my first set up was built around the Hd800 and it is one of my most laid back yet detailed and (More or less) natural headphones that i own because of that. That includes going up against my empyreans and zmf auteur (great acoustic sound)

the hd800, if your system (and preferences) works in its favour, is one of the best value headphones out there - but on this thread i guess i am just preaching mostly to the converted


----------



## gimmeheadroom

How do you like your WA2 with the 800s? It's on the top of my list for after the crisis ends.


----------



## thecrow

gimmeheadroom said:


> How do you like your WA2 with the 800s? It's on the top of my list for after the crisis ends.


the best description i have for it is that it is silky smooth. when i bought it about 5 years ago I was surprised how detailed it is too (given it’s a tube amp)

tube upgrades are definitely beneficial too. a necessity for me. But time consuming but i enjoyed gathering them. But not in a rush to do it again

main drawback with the amp is that you will be limited to higher impedance headphones or you’ll just have to buy a second amp (i have the auralic taurus) for other lower impedance hps

i have no intention of selling anything but i consider the wa2 and the hd800 as one unit now so if i was to sell one (to fund another purchase) i would sell both - unless i upgraded tube amps but i have no need to for the wa2


----------



## gimmeheadroom

thecrow said:


> the best description i have for it is that it is silky smooth. when i bought it about 5 years ago I was surprised how detailed it is too (given it’s a tube amp)
> 
> tube upgrades are definitely beneficial too. a necessity for me. But time consuming but i enjoyed gathering them. But not in a rush to do it again
> 
> ...



Thanks, it's good to hear the WA2 and 800s are a good match. I'm not surprised though.

I have other amps, I decided on the  WA2 specifically to upgrade to a better OTL than my Valhalla 2.


----------



## Lord Raven

gimmeheadroom said:


> The 800 does not lack bass. What it lacks is overemphasized bass. Some OTLs do better than solid state amps. Which tube amp are you using?
> 
> Listen to some cello or orchestral kettle drums and you will be happy with the bass.


The drums definitely feel better, I kind of want more. I have Feliks Elise with some well known tubes. 5998 and EL3N. DAC Chord Mojo. 

The only issue I have is, when I turn it up, it feels like I'll lose my hearing. It becomes intolerable. Maybe I just need the anax mod.


----------



## Lord Raven

thecrow said:


> is that a serious question?
> 
> if so, how the f would i know what someone else likes
> 
> ...


LOL I want some certainty before I want to tear my headphones apart. I was using Beyerdynamic Tesla T1 before I moved to HD800. Same setup. 

I am not satisfied, I think this is the highest I would ever go with my current setup. I have also stuck my head in home audio and car audio so can't ask for more trouble with this hobby. I hear a song or two and my wife calls me to look after the babh LOL


----------



## Lord Raven

Talking about the drums, I heard Hotel California live version on Orpheus HE1 and absolutely blew my brains out, see my display photo. Sennheiser invited me for a demo 😂


----------



## Lord Raven

I don't know but tonight my HD800 sounded superb, I have no idea what just happened.


----------



## thecrow

Lord Raven said:


> I don't know but tonight my HD800 sounded superb, I have no idea what just happened.



it's a very underrated headphone these days


----------



## johnjen (May 16, 2020)

Lord Raven said:


> The drums definitely feel better, I kind of want more. I have Feliks Elise with some well known tubes. 5998 and EL3N. DAC Chord Mojo.
> 
> The only issue I have is, when I turn it up, it feels like I'll lose my hearing. It becomes intolerable. Maybe I just need the anax mod.


The Elise specs say it has 200mW output power but it doesn't say at what Ω.
Nor is it mentioned if this amp is an OTL design or if it uses output xfmrs, which will impact it's power to Ω relationship.

And since 200mW is a minimal amount of power, it's possible that the amp is clipping when you crank on it, which explains the "when I turn it up, …It becomes intolerable".
Especially if you have added any EQ, as it will further reduce any 'available' headroom.

JJ


----------



## Lord Raven

johnjen said:


> The Elise specs say it has 200mW output power but it doesn't say at what Ω.
> Nor is it mentioned if this amp is an OTL design or if it uses output xfmrs, which will impact it's power to Ω relationship.
> 
> And since 200mW is a minimal amount of power, it's possible that the amp is clipping when you crank on it, which explains the "when I turn it up, …It becomes intolerable".
> ...


The *Elise* is a high-end output transformer-less (*OTL*) headphone *amplifier* and preamplifier
Here are the specs:

Input Impedance: 100 kOhm
Frequency response: 10 Hz - 60 Khz +/- 3 dB (300 ohm)
Power output: 200mW
Pre-amp Gain: 20dB
THD: 0.4 % (300 ohm, 20 mW)
Supported headphones impedance: 32 - 600 ohm <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


----------



## Lord Raven

thecrow said:


> it's a very underrated headphone these days


I think I am going to stick to it, need to get the best out of your current gear before you move on


----------



## TontonJoK

Love my HD800's for years and still working superb


----------



## kdphan

My third time owning the HD800 and I can confirm having a good amp makes a big difference.

prior to this, the HD800 weren’t all that special to me. Once I got the tubes I wanted for my WA22, the HD800 sound awesome.


----------



## joseph69

Pairing the 800 w/WA33 and it sounds beautiful.


----------



## johnjen

Lord Raven said:


> The *Elise* is a high-end output transformer-less (*OTL*) headphone *amplifier* and preamplifier
> Here are the specs:
> 
> Input Impedance: 100 kOhm
> ...


Yes I read that as well.
But the specs don't mention at what Ω the 200mw applies.
And as the Ω goes up usually the available power drops.

JJ


----------



## Lord Raven

johnjen said:


> Yes I read that as well.
> But the specs don't mention at what Ω the 200mw applies.
> And as the Ω goes up usually the available power drops.
> 
> JJ


Oh yeah, now I got what you were referring to. When I said the headphones become intolerable, they become brighter and brighter. I have driver Beyerdynamic Tesla T1 on this amplifier with ease, which are 600 Ohms headphones. Power is never an issue for this amplifier, I'll find out what is the maximum power rated at from Elise thread. 

I don't think I have courage to change my amplifier at this stage of hobby, I'd rather buy a new lens 😂


----------



## kdphan

Did the earpad swap to lambskin.
First thing I noticed was an increase in low end bass quantity
Second, overall signature is warmer
Third, lambskin earpads are much more comfy

Can somebody recommend headband replacement? The HD800 I bought has headband that's at the end of its life.


----------



## Lord Raven

kdphan said:


> Did the earpad swap to lambskin.
> First thing I noticed was an increase in low end bass quantity
> Second, overall signature is warmer
> Third, lambskin earpads are much more comfy
> ...


Hi kd, I would love to try, where did you get the pads? HD800 is huge for my head, I don't get a firm hold on my skull, is the lamb skin pad bigger than the original for better grip?


----------



## kdphan

Lord Raven said:


> Hi kd, I would love to try, where did you get the pads? HD800 is huge for my head, I don't get a firm hold on my skull, is the lamb skin pad bigger than the original for better grip?


The lambskin is thicker than the OEM and hugs the head tighter as well. It gives a better seal, which is why i'm hearing more low end bass.
I bought mine from amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Geekria-Repl...ds=geekria+hd800+earpad&qid=1589852100&sr=8-3


----------



## pbui44

kdphan said:


> The lambskin is thicker than the OEM and hugs the head tighter as well. It gives a better seal, which is why i'm hearing more low end bass.
> I bought mine from amazon.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Geekria-Repl...ds=geekria+hd800+earpad&qid=1589852100&sr=8-3



From the Lawton Audio lambskin angled ear pads, sheepskin feels softer and more supple, which makes less grip on the skin made by clamping.  Other than that, the Accessory House Global leather ear pads look to be very similar to the Geekrias.


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Lawton, Warmer and a bit more bass is what I want from my HD800, so which are the best lambskin pads I should go for? I also need to check if they are available in Amazon AU or not.


pbui44 said:


> From the Lawton Audio lambskin angled ear pads, sheepskin feels softer and more supple, which makes less grip on the skin made by clamping.  Other than that, the Accessory House Global leather ear pads look to be very similar to the Geekrias.


----------



## kdphan

pbui44 said:


> From the Lawton Audio lambskin angled ear pads, sheepskin feels softer and more supple, which makes less grip on the skin made by clamping.  Other than that, the Accessory House Global leather ear pads look to be very similar to the Geekrias.


That particular pad was out of stock until a few weeks so I splurged and paid $10 more for Geekria.

quite happy with the purchase.


----------



## pbui44

Lord Raven said:


> Hi Lawton, Warmer and a bit more bass is what I want from my HD800, so which are the best lambskin pads I should go for? I also need to check if they are available in Amazon AU or not.



I could not find the Accessory House Global sheepskin pair on Amazon AU, but there is the Geekria lambskin for $89 AUD here:

https://www.amazon.com.au/Sennheise...keywords=hd800+ear+pads&qid=1589859154&sr=8-2


----------



## TontonJoK (May 19, 2020)

Tried the lambskin too and agree, noticed a light boost in bass Very comfy and hold a little better
Sound signature is nice as always
About the pad on Amazon France : (https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B07MXB8XKQ/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Paid 40 $ but out of stock on Amazon.com
Look like those, bet they are similars but a little more expensive for now : https://www.amazon.com/Geekria-Repl...Y3BXKSFW5RP&psc=1&refRID=A2TFZ0A37Y3BXKSFW5RP


----------



## bearFNF

kdphan said:


> Did the earpad swap to lambskin.
> First thing I noticed was an increase in low end bass quantity
> Second, overall signature is warmer
> Third, lambskin earpads are much more comfy
> ...


Might try the Dekoni nuggets.


----------



## pbui44

kdphan said:


> Did the earpad swap to lambskin.
> First thing I noticed was an increase in low end bass quantity
> Second, overall signature is warmer
> Third, lambskin earpads are much more comfy
> ...



I use this to contain the tiny specks coming off and provide more soft grip on my hair, just button it with the flap over the back of your head:

https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Se...6&sprefix=geekria+headband+&sr=8-3&th=1&psc=1


----------



## elvergun (May 21, 2020)

pbui44 said:


> I use this to contain the tiny specks coming off and provide more soft grip on my hair, just button it with the flap over the back of your head:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Sennheiser-Audio-Technica-Replacement-Protector/dp/B01D6UIBWY/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=geekria+headband+cover&qid=1589974516&sprefix=geekria+headband+&sr=8-3&th=1&psc=1



I bought a replacement headband (to contain the tiny specks coming off...lol).

I could only find one place where I could easily purchase it -- some guy from England on ebay.   what, Sennheiser?

The package is still on its way to me.   It is supposed to be a Sennheiser part.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

elvergun said:


> I bought a replacement headband (to contain the tiny specks coming off...lol).   I could only find one place where I could easily purchase it -- some guy from England on ebay.   what, Sennheiser?



https://en-de.sennheiser.com/accessories--headband-cushion---hd-600

It's not that hard, depending where you live.


----------



## elvergun

gimmeheadroom said:


> https://en-de.sennheiser.com/accessories--headband-cushion---hd-600
> 
> It's not that hard, depending where you live.



I live in the US.   I could not find it listed at en-us.sennheiser.com.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

elvergun said:


> I live in the US.   I could not find it listed at en-us.sennheiser.com.



Ask, and ye might receive:

https://en-us.sennheiser.com/headband-cushion-hd-600

If you put your country in your profile it can help in times like this.


----------



## elvergun

pbui44 said:


> I recently tried these Accessory House Global sheepskin ear pads out on my HD800:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Sennheiser-HD800-HD800S-Sheepskin/dp/B07MXB8XKQ
> 
> and felt the same way as you with your Dekoni Elite Sheepskin ear pads.  If the HD800 drivers and earcups were not sensitive with amping, then ear pad thickness would not matter to me, which is why I picked the Accessory House Global sheepskin ear pads.  Oh yeah, they are $40/pair, too.



How is the comfort of the AHG pads?   I recently purchased a set of AHG pads for my D2000 and they turned out to be really uncomfortable (too hard)...I could only use them for 10-15 minutes (ZMF Ori pads solved the problem).


----------



## elvergun

gimmeheadroom said:


> Ask, and ye might receive:
> 
> https://en-us.sennheiser.com/headband-cushion-hd-600
> 
> If you put your country in your profile it can help in times like this.



The link is for HD600 pads.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

elvergun said:


> The link is for HD600 pads.



You are absolutely correct. I am looking at too many threads!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

elvergun said:


> The link is for HD600 pads.



Third time's the charm.

https://en-us.sennheiser.com/accessories--hd-800--ear-cushion

You're welcome 

Wait, this is the 800 thread, right?


----------



## elvergun

gimmeheadroom said:


> Third time's the charm.
> 
> https://en-us.sennheiser.com/accessories--hd-800--ear-cushion
> 
> ...



Ha...except that I could not find the headband cushion.   But thanks for trying.  

I did find the product on ebay...so all is good!


----------



## elvergun (May 26, 2020)

Holy crap..I just installed a set of Dekoni sheepskin pads...and the bass increased by a crap-load.   I like how things sound.   Comfort, however, decreased with these pads (vs stock pads).   But I had no choice -- the stock pads were disintegrating.   I had to stop using my HD800 on Friday when my girlfriend told me I had something black on the side of my face...turns out that the something black on my face was pad dust (and it didn't just brush off, I had to wash my face).   I can send the Dekoni back and get Sennheiser pads, but that would mean that I will have to give Sennheiser another $80 in a few years.     I also had to buy another headband (in the mail right now).   My hair is dark, so the girlfriend could not see the headband particles that must have been on my hair. 

Bad German engineers...bad (waving finger at you).


Edit:   The highs have also increased.   If you can take the highs of the HD800, these pads might push you over the edge (I'm fine with how things sound so far).     The soundstage was not affected.   I'm using the dust cover attached to the pads ( and I removed the stock cover).  I've adjusted to how the pads feel on my head now and they are not as uncomfortable as I though, though stock pads are still more comfy.    Bass quantity did increase (considerably, I think) while retaining it's quality.   Oh, and they are aesthetically pleasing (the HD800 looks serious now...like it means business).   So far, so good.


----------



## robo24

I've purchased knock off pads on ebay and can't tell the difference from the $80 official ones.


----------



## elvergun

robo24 said:


> I've purchased knock off pads on ebay and can't tell the difference from the $80 official ones.



Nice.   The thing is, I like the increased bass I get with the Dekoni pads...but these pads ain't cheap.  I'm almost tempted to get the one you mentioned instead.


----------



## Lord Raven

elvergun said:


> Holy crap..I just installed a set of Dekoni sheepskin pads...and the bass increased by a crap-load.   I like how things sound.   Comfort, however, decreased with these pads (vs stock pads).   But I had no choice -- the stock pads were disintegrating.   I had to stop using my HD800 on Friday when my girlfriend told me I had something black on the side of my face...turns out that the something black on my face was pad dust (and it didn't just brush off, I had to wash my face).   I can send the Dekoni back and get Sennheiser pads, but that would mean that I will have to give Sennheiser another $80 in a few years.     I also had to buy another headband (in the mail right now).   My hair is dark, so the girlfriend could not see the headband particles that must have been on my hair.
> 
> Bad German engineers...bad (waving finger at you).
> 
> ...


Hi EN, 

Looks like it fixed one issue and created one. What do you mean by "highs are also increased"? I would love more bass but not more highs as HD800 is already a knife to my ears 🗡 

Thanks, and great findings


----------



## elvergun (May 27, 2020)

Lord Raven said:


> Looks like it fixed one issue and created one.



The issue I was trying to fix is the case of the magically disappearing ear pads.   Little pieces of black dust would snow everywhere when I used this headphone.  The extra bass was just an added bonus.




Lord Raven said:


> I would love more bass but not more highs as HD800 is already a knife to my ears 🗡



Well, that's what I mean...the highs are a little sharper and more pronounced.    With these pads (or perhaps it due to the removal of the stock dust cover) music might become too sibilant to your ears.    I never thought the HD800 were knifes to my ears, but today I heard a couple of songs were the highs almost became painful (almost, but not quite).   I'll will put the dust cover back on to hear how that changes the signature.

The more I listen the more convinced I am that I will never go back to stock pads.     I love the change to the signature.   Things are clearer and perhaps the soundstage is even wider.   Comfort took a hit since the clamp is stronger, but I feel that the headphone is still comfortable.


----------



## Lord Raven

elvergun said:


> The issue I was trying to fix is the case of the magically disappearing ear pads.   Little pieces of black dust would snow everywhere when I used this headphone.  The extra bass was just an added bonus.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for sharing your findings, I think I am also going to try the lambskin pads. The highs can be tamed if you wear the headphones so that the back of your ears is close to the edge of the pads, like wear then more towards your nose  I don't know how to describe it.

I think, removing the dust cover will definitely bring more highs. I have long hair, my hair block some of the highs too LOL So grow some hair haha


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Some judicious use of EQ can flatten the peak. I can't see experimenting with pads to change the sound unless you have a lot more time, money, and patience than I do 

But for comfort or a bit of an upgrade real sheepskin pads would probably be very nice.


----------



## elvergun

Lord Raven said:


> Thanks for sharing your findings, I think I am also going to try the lambskin pads.



Let us know what you think of them.


----------



## 491838

Just bought an SDR modded pair from an acquaintance and they're due to arrive in a few days. I'm kinda excited to try them out for the first time after recently selling my LCD-2. Also ordered a new amp for them.


----------



## elvergun

Dealux said:


> Just bought an SDR modded pair from an acquaintance and they're due to arrive in a few days. I'm kinda excited to try them out for the first time after recently selling my LCD-2. Also ordered a new amp for them.



Which amp did you get?


----------



## 491838

elvergun said:


> Which amp did you get?


The Topping A90. Plenty of power and the best measurements I've seen.


----------



## 491838

I joined the club. Yeah, these blow the LCD-2 out of the water in terms of clarity. Resolution is a bit tricky. Planars have a specific way of rendering texture. I would say the HD800 has a similarly natural sounding timbre. 

But they're not hard to drive at all and can be fixed with a fairly simple 5-band EQ. This pair has the SDR mod as well.


----------



## Lord Raven

elvergun said:


> Let us know what you think of them.


I am still figuring it out, could you please check these pads? They have excellent reviews compared to the brand we mentioned here Dekoni and Geekria. Also, they are available on Amazon AU. Unfortunately, there is no brand name attached to these. I was wondering if anyone else has tested them?

Edit: Forgot to paste link
https://www.amazon.com.au/Sennheise...d=1&keywords=hd800+pads&qid=1591111694&sr=8-1


----------



## elvergun

They look like the ones Geekria sells.   I don't believe those are the same as the Dekoni.   

If those are the only ones available for you to purchase I would go for it.  I almost bought the Geekria.   The reason I chose the Dekoni is that I have a set of their pads on my T5p made from the softest memory foam I have ever touched.   Unfortunately, the HD800 pads seem to be made from a different type of foam - still comfy, yet not as soft as the other ones.

Be aware, however, that I recently purchased a set of Accessory House pads for my Denon D2000 and I had to send them back.   The AH Fostex/Denon pads are stiff and uncomfortable --  I could only use the D2000 for around 10 minutes or so at a time.


----------



## longbowbbs

Dealux said:


> I joined the club. Yeah, these blow the LCD-2 out of the water in terms of clarity. Resolution is a bit tricky. Planars have a specific way of rendering texture. I would say the HD800 has a similarly natural sounding timbre.
> 
> But they're not hard to drive at all and can be fixed with a fairly simple 5-band EQ. This pair has the SDR mod as well.


Welcome to the club. I keep coming back to the HD800's even though I have several other top end cans. For me there is something special in them. Particularly when paired with a great SET tube amp.


----------



## hduong (Jun 6, 2020)

Just got the Geekria lambskin pads to replace the stock ones that were worn out.  They are not as comfy as the stock ones as there is more pressure being applied.  But that better for me as the old ones were a bit loose.  Bass seemed improved.  Slight more of it that is.  Everything else seemed the same.

Would be interested to see a comparison between new stock pads vs the lambskin ones.


----------



## 491838 (Jun 8, 2020)

I've recently received the HD800 and I've tested it quite thoroughly by now. Unfortunately, I'm not too convinced that these are the best at $1000.

*The positives*
The clarity is what separates these headphones from other headphones. I think the thin pads and huge earcups contribute to this sense of clarity. There isn't much between you and the sound (in a way, the way instruments are rendered remind me of IEMs like the ER4) and the stock tuning does aim for a somewhat balanced signature.

Stage width and imaging are good but most of the time it sounds like LCD-2 levels of width and it doesn't render images as big as the Audezes. You need very specific recordings to notice a significant increase in width over a planar.

The upper treble might indeed be better than anything in this price range but I think that's mostly a quirk of the tuning (it's very flat/even sounding above 10K) and not necessarily demonstrating superior "speed" or detail capabilities.

Dynamic range is quite good. Very nice and clear impact on snare drums and stuff like that. Quite good bass impact as well but it lacks extension.

With EQ (I use oratory's 5-band preset) they're fairly decent for music but more enjoyable in video games with that superior clarity though the LCD-2 was similarly immersive if not slightly more immersive with the big "planar wall" sound.

*Negatives*
Not the best bass for $1000. Good for a DD and it has more clarity than the LCD-2 (seemingly, because Audezes sound a bit resonant in the lower frequencies) but it isn't as tight/detailed or extended as the LCD-2. Plus it sounds a bit thick at 100-200 Hz, which can enhance metal recordings in a way but I would prefer the flatter transition through that range of Audeze planars. In terms of impact, it actually seems to have more impact in some recordings but I attribute that to the general superior clarity (i.e. "unadulterated" sound) of this design.

The mids and upper mids/treble are actually about on par with the LCD-2 if not slightly worse. It's a strange situation. The 5-6K "sharpness" or grain or whatever you want to call it is quite audible on most recordings with or without the SDR mod (which I removed because it basically fixed nothing) and with or without EQ, so whatever strange artifact is causing these headphones to sound grainy or harsh in the upper vocal range kinda negatively impacts the perception of detail in this region. Though I do still maintain that the LCD-2 has its own strange behavior in this range and really the entire frequency range. The honk/ringing at 0.9/1K which made pianos, voices, and some instruments sound aggressive and unnatural even post EQ, but the LCD-2 mids and lower treble were seemingly more forgiving and "smooth" sounding which is why I would almost say the Audezes were more detailed overall but lacked clarity overall if that makes any sense.

Upper treble is where the HD800 shines. It is indeed seemingly more detailed than the fuzzy sounding LCD-2 though I think Audeze planars have the same potential in this range but the treble above 10K has weird peaks that ruin the clarity and ultimately the imaging potential of the LCD-2. The LCD-2 upper treble is so bad that I can actually hear more nuances in that range on the less detailed and more damped ER4 (IEMs), which is ridiculous considering the 3X price difference.

So in conclusion I would say that I'm disappointed, very disappointed, by both the LCD-2 and the HD800. Both have wacky tunings and timbre defects that make them almost unlistenable with a lot of recordings. The sharpness of the HD800 and the ringing of the LCD-2 make them unsuitable for most music in my opinion even with EQ so I can't recommend either of them for $1000.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

What amps and sources are you listening to them on?


----------



## 491838

gimmeheadroom said:


> What amps and sources are you listening to them on?


I'll have my Topping A90 next week which is supposed to be a better amp than my current amp/DAC set-up. Honestly, I wish sources would magically fix the HD800 but I really doubt they would fix the sharpness/grain that these have.

I'm not interested in any esoteric stuff like tube amps. I prefer to correct issues with DSP when possible.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Dealux said:


> I'll have my Topping A90 next week which is supposed to be a better amp than my current amp/DAC set-up. Honestly, I wish sources would magically fix the HD800 but I really doubt they would fix the sharpness/grain that these have.
> 
> I'm not interested in any esoteric stuff like tube amps. I prefer to correct issues with DSP when possible.



I have a pair of 800s and don't have any similar impression to yours except for the point about the hot treble, and then only on certain female vocals. I don't have the LCD-2 but I have the 2C and 3F and they're polar opposites of the 800 for me. The 800 is notoriously intolerant of bad sources and lousy recordings.

With the new amp you mentioned I expect it will improve for you on both cans you mentioned. I have no experience with it but taking a quick look at the specs it should swing enough voltage to make your 800s sing. Make sure you run them balanced. DSP only goes so far. For some headphones you need quality power, and plenty of it.


----------



## Fegefeuer

You should try the felt mod.


----------



## 491838

I had all of those mods but removed them subsequently. You can't EQ properly (based on popular EQ profiles) with mods installed.



gimmeheadroom said:


> I have a pair of 800s and don't have any similar impression to yours except for the point about the hot treble, and then only on certain female vocals. I don't have the LCD-2 but I have the 2C and 3F and they're polar opposites of the 800 for me. The 800 is notoriously intolerant of bad sources and lousy recordings.
> 
> With the new amp you mentioned I expect it will improve for you on both cans you mentioned. I have no experience with it but taking a quick look at the specs it should swing enough voltage to make your 800s sing. Make sure you run them balanced. DSP only goes so far. For some headphones you need quality power, and plenty of it.


Yeah, definitely on vocals that are heavily processed or have more information in the upper range. Vocals with a lot of reverb tend to sound very smooth due to the clarity and detail of these headphones in the upper treble.

But I do notice the treble sharpness even on good acoustic and orchestral (stuff with strings/violins) recordings which contributes to this artificial character of those instruments. Though the clarity is definitely on point.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jun 8, 2020)

Dealux said:


> I had all of those mods but removed them subsequently. You can't EQ properly (based on popular EQ profiles) with mods installed.
> 
> 
> Yeah, definitely on vocals that are heavily processed or have more information in the upper range. Vocals with a lot of reverb tend to sound very smooth due to the clarity and detail of these headphones in the upper treble.
> ...



FWIW I used the parametric EQ on my RME to kill the 8 KHz peak and it helped a lot for some Joni Mitchell albums that really did get a bit hard to take. But I did not notice stridency on strings or flute. IIRC I was listening to Mahler and then a few Hubert Laws albums on Tidal.

Edited: I should have mentioned that I was running the RME into a Valhalla 2 with the 800s. I don't use my Sennheisers out of the RME except for HD 25s once in a while.


----------



## 491838

Well... I might have to sell them because the headband kills the top of my head. It's so bad that it literally makes me nauseous. I had a very similar experience with the HD600. Sennheiser hates my head.

Edit: I will buy new pads for the next owner as a bonus.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Dealux said:


> Well... I might have to sell them because the headband kills the top of my head. It's so bad that it literally makes me nauseous. I had a very similar experience with the HD600. Sennheiser hates my head.
> 
> Edit: I will buy new pads for the next owner as a bonus.



Hah, interesting. There was a thread saying the 800 was the most comfortable pair of headphones and I didn't agree. The earcups seem to sit on my ears and the headband hurts. I think you're the first person I saw with the same experience.

But I find the 600s ok except for the jaws of death skull clamp. Maybe it hurts my face so much I didn't notice the headband  

They do get better. But it takes a while.


----------



## JamieMcC

Dealux said:


> I'll have my Topping A90 next week which is supposed to be a better amp than my current amp/DAC set-up. Honestly, I wish sources would magically fix the HD800 but I really doubt they would fix the sharpness/grain that these have.
> 
> I'm not interested in any esoteric stuff like tube amps. I prefer to correct issues with DSP when possible.



Hi very curious as to your current amp and source which gave you these results as it really seems at odds to the norm here.
What's your current chain consist of?


----------



## 491838

JamieMcC said:


> Hi very curious as to your current amp and source which gave you these results as it really seems at odds to the norm here.
> What's your current chain consist of?


Currently a cheap Roland audio interface but I do have the Topping amp on the way which is very powerful. Not that I had problems driving these with my basic amp/DAC. The 800s are fairly easy to drive. Even easier than the LCD-2 and HD600.

The treble isn't so bad. Honestly I will probably just keep them for the clarity. It's very good. I especially noticed that when I played with them in my DAW with some sounds and surround effects. The imaging is quite natural and almost 3D.


----------



## JamieMcC

HD 800 can be quiet merciless on upstream kit good synergy is of prime importance they can scale really well. Get it right and the hd800 can be pretty spectacular.  Get it wrong and you have sibilant wailing banshee that can physically make you wince and cringe. 

Hopefully moving to the topping will help start to unlock the hd800's performance.

Good luck with Topping


----------



## 491838

It's not sibilant actually. EQ corrects that really well. It's more to do with the way it represents detail or texture. It's quite a departure from the soft texture of planars (the comparison is meaningful because I've EQ-ed my LCD-2 to the same target more or less). It's like the surface detail is pushed really forward compared to other headphones and that reveals a lot of stuff that is actual detail but it also reveals the headphone's own harshness to some extent. It also doesn't help that the bass isn't all that present to make the sound warmer.


----------



## longbowbbs

Spot on JMC. The HD800's are not kind to a poor chain. They have proven their worth over more than a decade of Top end quality. If you ore going to use them you need to make sure the rest of the chain is worthy or be prepared to have your flaws revealed.


----------



## johnjen

I agree as well.
800's will reveal ALL of the sonic traits of the upstream gear with precision and unflinching clarity.

And yes they do have their flaws etc. but where many other HP's will 'soften' this sonic 'edginess', the 800's will not.

So when we move into the very top end of the audio food chain and into audiophool gear, ALL of the details both good and bad will be revealed.

And yes DSP can help but it simply can't 'solve' a poor signal being fed to the 800's.

And as I have previously disclosed, my research has shown that the major 'flaw' with the 800's isn't that 6.5-8KHz peak but rather too much overshoot on the leading edge of the re-created wave form.  
This added 'zing' is the major source of the hard edginess and what has been attributed to that 6.5-8KHz peak.
And DSP simply can't address this issue.

There is a solution but it is a DIY project so being willing and able to take the 800's apart and fuss with them is what is needed.

JJ


----------



## 491838

DSP can fix most of what is wrong with a headphone's FR in my opinion and no amount of modding and expensive sources will bring the response closer to something resembling neutral (like the HD600 or 650). My pair had mods installed including SDR but I decided to remove them since they barely made a difference (compared to EQ).

I have a new amp on the way and I will also be purchasing the SMSL M400 in the near future. If $1300 in source gear isn't enough then this hobby is stupid. You shouldn't need thousands of dollars in source gear to "fix" a headphone. I think that's mostly a story that people tell themselves to justify essentially burning money on stuff that isn't even that important.


----------



## Ichos

EQ can't fix overshoot , early reflections and unwanted reverb.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Exactly. Else I could skip all room treament just by using a DSP. You can't just dismiss physical modification without either experience or intensively reading about it. Some people here have done room treatment for decades @bagwell359


----------



## johnjen

Dealux said:


> DSP can fix most of what is wrong with a headphone's FR in my opinion and no amount of modding and expensive sources will bring the response closer to something resembling neutral (like the HD600 or 650). My pair had mods installed including SDR but I decided to remove them since they barely made a difference (compared to EQ).
> 
> I have a new amp on the way and I will also be purchasing the SMSL M400 in the near future. If $1300 in source gear isn't enough then this hobby is stupid. You shouldn't need thousands of dollars in source gear to "fix" a headphone. I think that's mostly a story that people tell themselves to justify essentially burning money on stuff that isn't even that important.


I agree that DSP can help with FR aberrations, but overshoot is not a FR problem.
It is a designed in compensation to make the HP sound more spectacular, but has additional acoustic consequences.

This hobby is as stupid as we each let it be.
And for those reaching for State of the Art performance, which the 800's are fully capable of doing, $1300 is a good place to start, but is by no means a pinnacle.
All of this is in the nature of SotA gear and our drive to achieve levels of performance that to some may seem stupid, that is unless you have experienced what a SotA enabled and truly tweaked system can deliver.

Such is the nature of wanting to push our hobby as far we can.

JJ


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Dealux said:


> DSP can fix most of what is wrong with a headphone's FR in my opinion and no amount of modding and expensive sources will bring the response closer to something resembling neutral (like the HD600 or 650). My pair had mods installed including SDR but I decided to remove them since they barely made a difference (compared to EQ).
> 
> I have a new amp on the way and I will also be purchasing the SMSL M400 in the near future. If $1300 in source gear isn't enough then this hobby is stupid. You shouldn't need thousands of dollars in source gear to "fix" a headphone. I think that's mostly a story that people tell themselves to justify essentially burning money on stuff that isn't even that important.



If I understood what you wrote so far in this thread you are running a 1500 euro pair of headphones that are known to be analytical, off a USB audio interface as a headamp and expecting you can make it sound better with DSP.

That is simply not going to work.


----------



## 491838

Ichos said:


> EQ can't fix overshoot , early reflections and unwanted reverb.


I've actually talked about reflections and subjective aspects like that with actual acoustic engineers (oratory, Sean Olive) and their opinion is that headphones do not suffer from the same issues as speakers. It makes no sense to talk about driver enclosures and compare them to speakers in a room. I'm inclined to take the word of engineers over audiophiles with no engineering knowledge.

Though there are aspects about sound that are strange. The LCD-2 was quite strange too and I would agree with you more that in that case I really couldn't fix them with EQ to my liking because some Audeze planars have some form of ringing at 1K that doesn't respond so well to EQ. The HD800 sounds much more normal throughout the mids and highs but they have a more analytical timbre that some people might find fatiguing. I don't imagine that being fixed by magic by any source, except maybe for tube amps, but I don't use headphones that way. I don't want any form of coloration or distortion from my amps because I also use headphones as reference equipment for music production.


gimmeheadroom said:


> If I understood what you wrote so far in this thread you are running a 1500 euro pair of headphones that are known to be analytical, off a USB audio interface as a headamp and expecting you can make it sound better with DSP.
> 
> That is simply not going to work.


It doesn't sound bad. I actually expected them to suck on a cheap source but they don't hence why I think the "HD800 is super transparent to different sources" meme might be more of a myth than reality. But everyone acknowledges the fact that they sound sharp on any source (maybe not tube amps, but I digress) so it's really a matter of how much enjoyment you can derive from a headphone that will sound sharp occasionally.

My disappointment has more to do with the fact that expensive headphones that are highly praised still need some form of fixing. The HD600 was much better in that regard out of the box. No need for EQ or esoteric sources.


----------



## Sound Trooper

I’ve joined the HD800 gang with my recently new-old purchase. Sounds phenomenal directly out of a Dave and it is a pleasure for long listening sessions. From what I am hearing, the HD800 has a slightly warm-neutral sound signature and a very lifelike sound stage. Bass, thou not the most impactful, is fast and clean. I’m just kicking myself that I took 10 years to discover this gem.


----------



## longbowbbs

HD800's and the DAVE are a solid combination. The Headphone amp on that DAC is excellent. The DAC is one of the best. Enjoy your new system!


----------



## roskodan

@Dealux So how do you explain what Sennheiser did in regard of the HD800S. They must've hidden some active dsp device inside? Or maybe it's just placebo effect of the color black?


----------



## elvergun

Sound Trooper said:


> I’ve joined the HD800 gang with my recently new-old purchase. Sounds phenomenal directly out of a Dave and it is a pleasure for long listening sessions. From what I am hearing, the HD800 has a slightly warm-neutral sound signature and a very lifelike sound stage. Bass, thou not the most impactful, is fast and clean. I’m just kicking myself that I took 10 years to discover this gem.



Congratulations.

I see they came with leather pads.   You will never have to worry about the original pads falling apart on you.


----------



## MacedonianHero

roskodan said:


> @Dealux So how do you explain what Sennheiser did in regard of the HD800S. They must've hidden some active dsp device inside? Or maybe it's just placebo effect of the color black?



No magic, just a Helmholtz resonator to soak up the 6kHz peak and smooth things out. That and all black is about it.


----------



## Ichos

So masking effect and resonances existed and couldn't be fixed with a simple EQ?

Very weird , EQ should fix everything according to Mr. @Dealux..

Now all this things have been discussed thousand of times and can't be denied.
Headphones are tiny speakers inside a tiny room and they obey to the same physics lows.
And of course it is hundred times more difficult to get past that acoustic problems and that is why we don't have not even one headphone without problems and the perfect tonality.

Regarding the HD800 , fanboyism is good and please enjoy as you all like but it suffers from well known problems and limitations that can't be fixed with a simple EQ.
Facts are facts , that's life.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Dealux said:


> My disappointment has more to do with the fact that expensive headphones that are highly praised still need some form of fixing. The HD600 was much better in that regard out of the box. No need for EQ or esoteric sources.



The two cans you're talking about are for different uses. The 600 is for enjoying music, the 800 is more for producing it and analyzing it. I think Sennheiser didn't make it clear but that's what we figured out after listening to them.

Just because a pair of headphones is expensive _does not imply that it is more enjoyable to listen to._ To me the 800 is a special purpose tool that is good for what I bought it for.


----------



## 491838 (Jun 10, 2020)

roskodan said:


> @Dealux So how do you explain what Sennheiser did in regard of the HD800S. They must've hidden some active dsp device inside? Or maybe it's just placebo effect of the color black?


Tyll explained it quite well. They tuned the driver a bit differently with the resonator and by increasing the bass distortion to warm up the sound. Hence why people think the 800S is the inferior headphone. In my opinion it's not worth the money given what a used HD800 goes for these days (half price essentially) and you can just get new pads and stuff with the rest of the money.


Ichos said:


> So masking effect and resonances existed and couldn't be fixed with a simple EQ?
> 
> Very weird , EQ should fix everything according to Mr. @Dealux..


Not according to me though. Acoustic engineers like oratory and Sean Olive seem to think that those resonances would be represented in the FR graph. Though even an industry standard HATS won't 100% simulate any individuals personal HRTF.

If you're not an acoustic engineer that designs headphone drivers I would refrain from making "engineer" claims of the sort you're making.


gimmeheadroom said:


> Just because a pair of headphones is expensive _does not imply that it is more enjoyable to listen to._ To me the 800 is a special purpose tool that is good for what I bought it for.


The consensus seems to be that the 800 is not very neutral at all (the 600 and 650 were much much closer). Really the only thing they need to fix about most high end headphones is the FR. NONE of them adhere to any specific target.


----------



## Ichos (Jun 10, 2020)

Have you ever seen a waterfall CSD graph of HD800?
Observe the ringing and resonances at certain frequencies.

The resonator and the increase of bass distortion is acoustic mechanical solutions or EQ solution?
So Sennheiser admitted that there is a problem at 6Khz and fixed it with a resonator while according to you (and the mechanics you claim) it could be easily fixed with EQ.
You are waisting your knowledge please apply for Sennheiser now that Grell is gone.

I am sorry but your points are totally vague.


----------



## 491838

Ichos said:


> Have you ever seen a waterfall CSD graph of HD800?
> Observe the ringing and resonances at certain frequencies.
> The resonator and the increase of bass distortion is acoustic mechanical solutions or EQ solution?
> 
> I am sorry but your points are totally vague.


I don't know that anyone knows how to read CSD graphs. You can hit up oratory1990 on reddit and read his thoughts on the subject. He's the acoustic engineer so I'm inclined to take his word for it.


----------



## Ichos

Let's clear some things up.
I have owned for years HD800 with and without mods and HD800s.
I have applied all the possible EQ solutions including Oratory and Sonarworks.
First EQ kills the headphone character and secondly can't fix the ringing not even of HD800s not to mention HD800.
So please enjoy your headphones but don't believe in chimeras and don't try to prove the opposite for facts that are measured and proven thousands of times here and other forums and labs.


----------



## 491838

The SDR mod doesn't fix it either. I removed it for that reason. I get very decent results with the 5-band version of the oratory HD800 profile.

BTW, in my opinion, the HD800 is more tolerable with his EQ compared to the LCD-2F. That one had some severe timbre issues that weren't really reflected in his measurements. the 0.9/1K forwardness sounded pretty bad even post EQ.


----------



## Ichos

As they say if you can't hear the resonances then you are happy.
So apply your preferred EQ curve and enjoy!


----------



## roskodan (Jun 12, 2020)

I agree with Ichos. Overall this has been too vague and arbitrary in regards to my understanding of the laws of physics. You can "room treat" a headphone to change its  frequency response proprieties.

The space bounded between the driver and the ear in an ideal (doesn't exist) open headphone, is like speakers in open space. Similar as having small monitors in a larger studio monitoring room, you can approximate that as speakers in open space.

The reality of the laws of physics is that a headphone will always act more like an instrument in a recording room. And you can treat the frequency response of that room (or headphone) with various engineering approaches like conversion of sound waves into heat (e.g. open cell foam).

The same you can achieve with DSP. Where DSP and room treatment diverge is the ability of DSP to easily apply complex functions to treat a headphone, or room, frequency response.

But that's it, only the frequency response can be affected, whether you choose to use DSP or room treatment.

What neither room treatment nor DSP can do, is change the inherit physical proprieties of a driver, or speaker (i.e. change it's electromagnetic and mechanical proprieties).


----------



## Ichos

There are several boundaries.
Space between enclosure and driver is the one and the other is between the ear and the diver - enclosure.
All these reflections must be treated mechanically and it is quite difficult to do it.
There are even reflections between driver and outer enclosure even in open back headphones.
A good headphone is like a good speaker in the ideal room.
It must sound correct without applying further mechanical diy treatment and of course EQ.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Ichos said:


> First EQ kills the headphone character and secondly can't fix the ringing not even of HD800s not to mention HD800.



Most of the time I don't EQ my 800s (not 800S) at all. I don't believe it's a warm or romantic headphone but it's great for orchestral music and good for hearing details in recordings. If I play some Joni Mitchell over my RME the parametric EQ works perfectly well to take the edge off. I don't notice any offensive side-effects.


----------



## Ichos

I preferred mine without EQ even though I was applying it very mildly.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Ichos said:


> I preferred mine without EQ even though I was applying it very mildly.



Some Joni Mitchell songs will piece your skull like icicles on a pair of 800s 

I don't know about the 800Ss, I never heard them.


----------



## Ichos

gimmeheadroom said:


> Some Joni Mitchell songs will piece your skull like icicles on a pair of 800s
> 
> I don't know about the 800Ss, I never heard them.



HD800s is a little better behaved.
I was saved because I listen only to classical music and all my recordings are after the '80s!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Ichos said:


> HD800s is a little better behaved.
> I was saved because I listen only to classical music and all my recordings are after the '80s!



Definitely a great set of cans for orchestral, classical etc. But there should be a lot of great recordings before 1980.


----------



## Ichos

Yes sure there are but when I reorganized my CD collection , years years ago , I decided that everything should be DDD.


----------



## FiGuY1017

My 800 had started taking a back seat to my Hekv2>Taurus so I've decided to dedicate the last few days to appreciate my original endgame set up, 800>Heron 5 and I have to say its as beautiful as I remember, really a musically pleasing, 3d sound. I did this because i had really considered selling it, but im glad I rediscovered it, it'll be staying, for good now.


----------



## Peti (Jun 10, 2020)

I have had my pair modded by Stefan Audio and got the Cardas Clear cable hard-wired. Currently using them in my transportable rig with a Fiio M11Pro feeding a tube upgraded Woo WA8 via analog. The player has the all to dsd function turned on which is a big improvement indeed.

No more sibilance and ringing ears. I have been having these headphones since 2013 and the best rig I have heard them with was a Primaluna Evo100 DAC and DNA Stellaris amp combo. That is what I am aiming for once I get settled and don't have to travel anymore for my job. Then my  trusty Woo will be up for sale and I get my dream stationery rig.


----------



## JamieMcC

There was a bit of controversy related to a review posted of the original Beyerdynamic T1 headphones a good few years ago. The review that was posted was clearly not seen by many as reflective of the T1 abilities and essentially a long moan about how the T1 was over priced and over hyped and the review wasn't experiencing what they expected.

 It turned out the reviewer posted their review opinions based on istening to MP3 and using a iPhone 4 to drive the T1 which are totally inadequate to drive the T1.

Many here  I suspect have ended up finding contentment with the HD800 after a substantial time with many headphones, amps and dacs under there belt.  So there's a wealth of knowledge on the BB to tap into for anyone looking to improve their experience of the hd800.


----------



## 491838

JamieMcC said:


> There was a bit of controversy related to a review posted of the original Beyerdynamic T1 headphones a good few years ago. The review that was posted was clearly not seen by many as reflective of the T1 abilities and essentially a long moan about how the T1 was over priced and over hyped and the review wasn't experiencing what they expected.
> 
> It turned out the reviewer posted their review opinions based on istening to MP3 and using a iPhone 4 to drive the T1 which are totally inadequate to drive the T1.
> 
> Many here  I suspect have ended up finding contentment with the HD800 after a substantial time with many headphones, amps and dacs under there belt.  So there's a wealth of knowledge on the BB to tap into for anyone looking to improve their experience of the hd800.


Except that there are people with expensive sources that complain about the HD800 too.

Even if you get past the sharpness and try to alleviate the issue with EQ (and it can be done for sure) the lack of bass is still a problem. ALL open dynamic drivers seem to tap out under 100 Hz except for Focal stuff (but even those) and they still can't quite perform on the level of top of the line planars like the LCD-4 or Abyss. Although the Audeze stuff doesn't seem to compete at all in terms of FR with the big dips in the treble and weird as hell timbre. I'm fairly convinced that the LCD-2 could have defeated the HD800 if it had better FR. That thing does a crappy job of rendering pianos and voices in a way that doesn't **** with your ears EVEN with EQ correction. Pianos sound klangy and lack clarity in particular.

That's why I switched to the HD800. It simply blows everything away in terms of clarity and you might just accept that the treble is a bit sharp at times and bass a bit weak.


----------



## Thenewguy007

The HD800 can have more bass & a sound fuller than the Audeze cans with the right high end equipment.

People just don't know how well they scale.  It goes beyond just headphone stuff, but high power amplifiers & higher end sources. They'll still be a bright headphone, that can't be changed, but it won't sound thin, lacking in bass or piercing.


----------



## 491838

Thenewguy007 said:


> The HD800 can have more bass & a sound fuller than the Audeze cans with the right high end equipment.
> 
> People just don't know how well they scale.  It goes beyond just headphone stuff, but high power amplifiers & higher end sources. They'll still be a bright headphone, that can't be changed, but it won't sound thin, lacking in bass or piercing.


You can make it boomier but that doesn't mean it's quality bass. I know tubes can fatten up the bass with distortion.

I think it's pretty clear that the lack of bass is an inherent problem with the design. It might be possible to elevate the sub bass with aftermarket pads but those typically affect more than just the bass. It also seems that the HD800 has a bit of that 100-200 Hz bass bloat that the lower end Sennheiser have but less annoying.


----------



## Thenewguy007

I got the HD800 with stock pads to have more sub-bass rumble than Audeze LCD2, Fostex TH-X00 & a Hifiman HE1000.

It won't happen on low to mid-tier equipment, but it's possible.


----------



## 491838

Thenewguy007 said:


> I got the HD800 with stock pads to have more sub-bass rumble than Audeze LCD2, Fostex TH-X00 & a Hifiman HE1000.
> 
> It won't happen on low to mid-tier equipment, but it's possible.


I'm interested how so many people correlate price with sound quality when it comes to source gear. What part of the design suggests better performance or does the hefty price tag reflect anything superior at all?

I actually checked and even on my inferior gear I can hear 28 Hz fairly well (with a 3 dB boost that's part of my EQ profile) but planars have bigger/thicker sounding bass. Well, Audeze planars at least. Though I found that the LCD-2 in particular had weird timbre in the bass as well. Kick drums in particular sounded a bit unclear so the HD800 at least has better clarity but I'm unsure about bass punch or slam. I can hear more on some songs but other songs sound less punchy on them vs the LCD-2 (from memory).


----------



## elvergun (Jun 11, 2020)

Thenewguy007 said:


> I got the HD800 with stock pads to have more sub-bass rumble than Audeze LCD2, Fostex TH-X00 & a Hifiman HE1000.



This is hard to believe.

Not saying it's impossible...



What high-end equipment did you use to achieve this miracle?


Edit:  I don't think the HD800 is lacking in sub-bass -- it just does not have a substantial mid bass boom.   But even so, more rumble than a TH-X00 and the LCD2?   Hmm.   If this is so, what kind of sub-bass did you get from the Fostex plugged in to that same equipment?   Did the TH-X00 blow you away like that old Memorex commercial?


----------



## 491838

elvergun said:


> This is hard to believe.
> 
> Not saying it's impossible...
> 
> ...


I think the difference is more so in timbre than quantity. I can kinda match Audeze levels of bass with EQ but it doesn't sound as thick as a planar. Why? The HD800 doesn't have big leather pads for starters.


----------



## JamieMcC (Jun 11, 2020)

Dealux,

fyi I have been running both hd800 and Hifiman he-6 for around 5 years off of numerous dacs and amps. Hd800 can't compare to HE6 bass wise but its certainly not far behind and has very good bass compared to many other cans imho.

As for price Vs performance you generally get what you pay for with off the shelf equipment but of course you need to do the homework if it's the right kit for your personal requirements The real price Vs performance is in the DIY world and it's often possible (with the good designs) to end up at the same destination for a quarter of what it might cost for an off the shelf amp.


----------



## Ichos

I have been using HD800 and HD800S for years with various amps and dacs , ss and tube up to 2K €.
The bass was the same with all equipment.
Maybe with some tube gear was more warm or distorted or with good ss amps was very dynamic and clean and very technical.
Quantity though was always the same.
This things start to roll off at 100Hz.
Compare them to Focal Clear or Meze Empyrean or even Hifiman Ananda and then you realize what bass is.
And of course I am not talking about boosted bass but at bass that doesn't roll off compared to the rest of the spectrum.
OK this are great cans with a lot of virtues but with also a lot of negatives.
And they don't change even with the most expensive gear in the world.
This is an audio myth.
The only way to alter the sound profile is with physical mods to some extent.
And that's it.
You can't teach an old dog new tricks.


----------



## johnjen

In my experience, detailed, extended, and powerful subsonic bass (and up) is possible from 800's even at 'normal' SPL's, but especially at elevated SPL's (95dB+). 
Their ability to let me feel the thump/concussion/rumble in my head and body, that's in the music, is remarkable.

Yes it does take much fussing with dialing in the entire system, but the musicality, tonality, spatial cues, stability of the acoustic presentation etc, is better than any other I have ever heard, including and especially with speakers.
A speaker based playback system that can 'properly' reach to even 25Hz let alone to 15Hz (or lower) is, while possible, VERY rare and expensive.

Yeah that sounds like an eye rolling statement but as contrast the absolute worst SQ I've ever heard was from a ≈60K+$ system.
It had NO bass down low, except for it's 'one note bass' response, and nothing else, the mids were dead, flat, receded and barely even 2d, and the top end was screechy.

IOW it's not just about the synergy of the gear itself but also the remainder of the setup in it's entirety.

The thing that really amazes me about the 800's is that while they are not perfect (is anything?), they scale so well and continue to reveal subtle nuances with increases in inner focus and details (especially in the very bottom end, and as they couple with that instruments upper frequecies) as the rest of the system is improved and the signal handed to them becomes less 'veiled'.

Just my 2¢

JJ


----------



## Ichos

Agreed but you can't increase bass quantity.
It is not possible.
It is physics.
Driver limitations
Can't go deeper.
It is like asking from a 6" bookshelf speakers to reproduce 20Hz.
Can't be done.


----------



## johnjen

The Senn published FR listed as "Transmission Range" is 6Hz - 51KHz (-10dB) & 14Hz - 41KHz (-3dB).
And the "Frequency response" is listed as 8hz - 50KHz.

JJ


----------



## Ichos (Jun 12, 2020)

You know better than me that this are "cooked" results.
All frequency measurements show clearly the bass behaviour of this.
Official Sennheiser frequency response supplied to the owners is only down to 100Hz.
Step response measurements show clearly that these lack good sub bass extension.
Facts are facts.
Anyway I don't want to start a flame here.
The H800S despite the limitations have excellent bass behaviour and of course you can enjoy all kinds of music without feeling that bass is missing.
But when you hear a headphone with proper bass extension then you realize what you was missing.


----------



## johnjen (Jun 12, 2020)

To me the critical word is response, as in the driver has some form of response to the input signal.

But even so I am hearing and feeling sub-sonic response with my setup and It does deliver a thwack to my noggin when say a cannon or a large bore gun goes off, or when one of those 6' drums gets whacked.
Both of these have near dc frequency components and they do have a visceral response component that is felt along with the acoustic portion of their sonic character.

I'm not the only one who has felt their chest get thumped, let alone their head get whacked.

Try this just to see for yourself.
Use DSP and add 14Hz, +14dB with a Q of 0.53.
And drop the overall gain for both channels -6 to -9dB so there is no digital clipping.

This of course assumes that your system is capable of dealing with what this implies and you have access to a parametric EQ.
And that you have recordings with these 'extended' low frequencies still remaining in them.
Even so you might be surprised.

EDIT, oh and if you want to push this one step further do the *PRT* (Phase Reversal Tweak)
http://www.head-fi.org/t/781268/the-diyrs-cookbook/210#post_12300653
And you'll notice that the EQ numbers for the *SSBB* have changed.
All these numbers can be dialed in for your specific system.
So consider these as 'starting' numbers.

JJ


----------



## Ichos

Unfortunately I have sold both HD800 and HD800S.
I am glad though that you and other members here still enjoy them.


----------



## 491838

Ichos said:


> Unfortunately I have sold both HD800 and HD800S.
> I am glad though that you and other members here still enjoy them.


What replaced them?


----------



## Ichos

Focal Clear pro , Sennheiser HD660S , Hifiman Ananda Bluetooth and if funds allow Meze Empyrean.


----------



## elvergun

Ichos said:


> Focal Clear pro , Sennheiser HD660S , Hifiman Ananda Bluetooth and if funds allow Meze Empyrean.



The reason I stuck with the HD800 is that none of the alternatives look as comfortable as the Sennheiser.  They are either too heavy (Audeze) or the pads seem too small (Focal)...or they are crazy expensive.


----------



## JamieMcC

A used pair of hd800 paired with something like the DIY Nelson Pass Whammy headphone amplifier makes a excellent combo and gives a taste of sumitfi for under $1000. 

https://diyaudiostore.com/collections/kits/products/whammy?variant=15367043448866


----------



## gimmeheadroom

elvergun said:


> The reason I stuck with the HD800 is that none of the alternatives look as comfortable as the Sennheiser.  They are either too heavy (Audeze) or the pads seem too small (Focal)...or they are crazy expensive.



Well, I find the LCDs more comfortable than the 800. They're not for everyone but if you're making the decision based on looks you should try a pair. I like the feeling of being inside them, and the headstrap distributes the weight more comfortably for me than the 800's strap does, and I like the feeling of lambskin more than velour.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Just saw this https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-hd800-with-custom-cable.934725/ in case somebody is looking for a pair.

I don't know the guy, this is not a recommendation.


----------



## Ichos

elvergun said:


> The reason I stuck with the HD800 is that none of the alternatives look as comfortable as the Sennheiser.  They are either too heavy (Audeze) or the pads seem too small (Focal)...or they are crazy expensive.



HD800 are very comfortable and lightweight but I don't have any problems with the Clers either and mind you that my ears are large.
Empyreans are the kings of comfort though.


----------



## elvergun

gimmeheadroom said:


> Well, I find the LCDs more comfortable than the 800. They're not for everyone but if you're making the decision based on looks* you should try a pair*.



I have.  I find the HD800 more comfortable.




Ichos said:


> Empyreans are the kings of comfort though.



$$$$$   ☹


Are they worth $$$$$?    I remember the days when $$$$$ was  an extreme price for an out of this world headphone.   It seems that now everything that comes out (good or bad, look at the HD820) costs $$$$$.    They must figure, "hey, these guys will pay anything, and the more it costs, the better they think our product sounds".


----------



## 491838

gimmeheadroom said:


> Well, I find the LCDs more comfortable than the 800. They're not for everyone but if you're making the decision based on looks you should try a pair. I like the feeling of being inside them, and the headstrap distributes the weight more comfortably for me than the 800's strap does, and I like the feeling of lambskin more than velour.


Pads are indeed more comfortable but the headband is not great for a lot of people. I've gotten at least two headaches from wearing mine so far (only used them for 2 weeks). Audeze headband is super comfortable but the weight can strain your neck muscles over time. Pads are not bad but the tight seal can make your ears feel funny (they put pressure on your eardrums).


----------



## johnjen (Jun 12, 2020)

Ichos said:


> Unfortunately I have sold both HD800 and HD800S.
> I am glad though that you and other members here still enjoy them.


Ah,  C'est la vie…

JJ


----------



## 491838

Am I the only one? The HD600 and HD800 now absolutely destroy the top of my head. I'd honestly rather wear the twice as heavy LCD-4 over this horribly uncomfortable thing. I should look up some third party solutions for this.


----------



## Ichos

I found HD800 very very comfortable.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Dealux said:


> Am I the only one? The HD600 and HD800 now absolutely destroy the top of my head. I'd honestly rather wear the twice as heavy LCD-4 over this horribly uncomfortable thing. I should look up some third party solutions for this.



Hilarious. Yeah the Sennheisers for me are not the most comfortable cans either. Still love them too much not to use them though.


----------



## elvergun

Dealux said:


> Am I the only one? The HD600 and HD800 now absolutely destroy the top of my head. I'd honestly rather wear the twice as heavy LCD-4 over this horribly uncomfortable thing. I should look up some third party solutions for this.



The HD600 and HD650 were uncomfortable (they did not destroy my head though).   The HD800 is one of the most comfortable headphones I have used.    

My Grado SR60 (with 414 pads) is the most comfortable headphone I own, followed by the Sony  MDR-F1.     These two models weigh next to nothing.      

I guess some people don't like heavy headphones.


----------



## JaZZ

The most comfortable of my headphones.


----------



## 491838

elvergun said:


> I guess some people don't like heavy headphones.


My ~600g LCD-2 was the most comfortable headphone I've ever used but it had a much better headband system. Sennheisers put a lot of pressure on the top of my head which gives me a headache after a while (40+ minutes).


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Those who find the HD800 headband uncomfortable might consider the new Sennheiser HD1000.  Here is a bit from a post earlier in this thread to refresh memories:

 I  have been Working Undercover on the New Flagship Sennheiser, and despite my signed Non-Disclosure agreement, the comments here prompt me to reveal what the new Sennheiser HD 1000 wlll be (sorry, Sennheiser!  But you never gave me that pair of Beats headphones you promised!):

I have pilfered a picture of the new HD 1000 from the Sennheiser lab, shown here in its case.  As you can see, it will be sold in the same case as the present HD 800:







The HD 1000 offers several improvements over the HD 800:


Even more than Grado headphones the new HD 1000 is completely transparent!   The picture above confirms this, as you can see ALL of the back of the box, even under the HD 1000.
The HD 1000 is also weightless... you will never know that you are wearing it. (no weight indentations in the box)
The HD 1000 is very soft... you cannot feel any pressure squeezing your ears or weighting your head.
The HD 1000 is wireless... no messy cables to stumble over.
The HD 1000 is so completely realistic that it comes with the new Sennheiser Realism Guarantee ("SRG") -- listen to what is around you without the HD 1000, then put them on and listen. We guarantee that you will not be able to tell the difference!  Complete realism, as measured by A/B blind testing over dozens of trial users.  Unlike most headphones that fight their environment by trying to impose their own sounds upon your ear, the HD 1000 will complement the acoustic environment that you are in, providing exact reproduction of its sounds.

Like the HD 800, introduced at a price that was double its model number, the HD 1000 will be offered at $2,000, double its model number.

However, I stole several prototypes from the lab and I am happy to sell them at half price, or $1,000 each.  Since they are weightless, there is no charge for shipping other than the cost of shipping the box. 

Please.... first come, first served!


----------



## 491838

Now I just need to save a bit more money to get the SMSL M400 to have a matching high performance DAC with the A90.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Has your new amp changed your opinions on the 800s?


----------



## 491838

gimmeheadroom said:


> Has your new amp changed your opinions on the 800s?


No. Initially it kinda seemed to be more dynamic and that's potentially true due to the bigger amount of power, but in A/B testing both amps sounded about the same. This is why I don't do source differences. Most of it is just your brain trying to justify your purchase.


----------



## CYZZM

Hello guys, I don't if it is alright to ask here. I am wondering do you guys have any suggestions on a small amp for HD800. Price around $1000, classical music lover, and I am using HUGO2 as a dac. Thanks you for your help!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CYZZM said:


> Hello guys, I don't if it is alright to ask here. I am wondering do you guys have any suggestions on a small amp for HD800. Price around $1000, classical music lover, and I am using HUGO2 as a dac. Thanks you for your help!



No personal experience with it but the Woo Audio WA2 is on my short list. It's a couple hundred more than you mentioned.

A used Violectric V280 or V281 is killer and will work with a wide variety of headphones where as tube OTLs like the Woo are best with high impedance cans. The Violectrics can handle a pretty wide variety of headphones.


----------



## JaZZ

CYZZM said:


> Hello guys, I don't if it is alright to ask here. I am wondering do you guys have any suggestions on a small amp for HD800. Price around $1000, classical music lover, and I am using HUGO2 as a dac. Thanks you for your help!


The Hugo₂ can drive the HD 800 perfectly. Any additional amplification stage will degrade the signal. It would be like re-amplifying the signal from the headphone output, since line out and headphone out share the same signal path – no internal headphone amp to be bypassed.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

JaZZ said:


> The Hugo₂ can drive the HD 800 perfectly. Any additional amplification stage will degrade the signal. It would be like re-amplifying the signal from the headphone output, since line out and headphone out share the same signal path – no internal headphone amp to be bypassed.



From the Chord page, Power output @ 1kHz 1% THD: 94mW 300Ω

Looks kinda marginal. I think you would get some significant improvement with a lot more gutsy amp.


----------



## elvergun (Jun 17, 2020)

CYZZM said:


> Hello guys, I don't if it is alright to ask here. I am wondering do you guys have any suggestions on a small amp for HD800. Price around $1000, classical music lover, and I am using HUGO2 as a dac. Thanks you for your help!



I recommend an iCan Pro (used).    I want to get one myself.

I currently have an iCan (non Pro version) and thanks to the xBass function I can use the HD800 to play any type of music.   Listening to something like the Black Eyed Peas without xBass is not a very enjoyable experience.    I could switch headphones...or I can flip a switch.


----------



## CYZZM

gimmeheadroom said:


> No personal experience with it but the Woo Audio WA2 is on my short list. It's a couple hundred more than you mentioned.
> 
> A used Violectric V280 or V281 is killer and will work with a wide variety of headphones where as tube OTLs like the Woo are best with high impedance cans. The Violectrics can handle a pretty wide variety of headphones.


Thank you! I think I have heard the the Woo audio product heavily depends the tube you used and the original tubes are not so great. Don't know if that is true.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

CYZZM said:


> Thank you! I think I have heard the the Woo audio product heavily depends the tube you used and the original tubes are not so great. Don't know if that is true.



I really don't know but I hope the stock tubes are at least good. Otherwise yeah, tube rolling can be expensive. Good thing about Woo is it's a popular brand and people have already spent the money and can help. Some big threads here about it.


----------



## CYZZM

elvergun said:


> I recommend an iCan Pro (used).    I want to get one myself.
> 
> I currently have an iCan (non Pro version) and thanks to the xBass function I can use the HD800 to play any type of music.   Listening to something like the Black Eyed Peas without xBass is not a very enjoyable experience.    I could switch headphones...or I can flip a switch.


I am gonna take a look at that since I am not so familiar with IFI products. Thank you!


----------



## dleblanc343

Ichos said:


> Focal Clear pro , Sennheiser HD660S , Hifiman Ananda Bluetooth and if funds allow Meze Empyrean.


What's your chain like. I don't want to be mean, but I think selling your 800(s)'s was a mistake. It's truly incredible and arguably better than even the Empyrean in my testing. I made the mistake first hand in selling my early S.N HD800 when Clear came out, and found the clear to be a wonderful upgrade.

Then recently, had the chance to hear 3 pairs of HD800 in an A/B/C with Clear. One stock (terrible fatiguing treble and lack of body as I remembered), one SDR modded (marginally better than Clears overall, but less agreeable) and then playing with EQ with simili-Harman EQ - it's truly astonishing.

I can handedly say the only headphone that I have that are still better than HD800 are my Susvara and D8000 Pro. After that my HEKv2 and my ex HEKse are a bit better. My ex LCD4 is a toss up, they're way too different but I prefer HD800 and sold LCD4. HD800 was also outclassed by my HE6 and K1000 (bass heavy), but not anymore, except HE6 4 screw is very close.

After getting a used HD800, I even bought an HD800S to do a thorough analysis, and can comfortably say HD800 scales higher than the S, with EQ. But in stock form, HD800S is more agreeable, despite them being really much more similar than different.

My HD800 with dekoni hybrids and Oratory1990's eq is the best I've heard HD800 in the last decade, and am extremely content. If I have to sell all my headphones and keep one, it wouldn't be Susvara, it would be this.



Dealux said:


> No. Initially it kinda seemed to be more dynamic and that's potentially true due to the bigger amount of power, but in A/B testing both amps sounded about the same. This is why I don't do source differences. Most of it is just your brain trying to justify your purchase.


Sadly Topping's gear kind of sounds lifeless and is really all about neutrality and amazing distortion figures. In this sense, your HD800 comes through as intended, and it's a very crisp monitor. I really do vouch for tube amps on a stock HD800, it's near mandatory unless you have something very dark. Now if you do input Oratory's parametric EQ, you'll be able to enjoy them, but keep in mind they'll sound much more different.


----------



## Ichos (Jun 17, 2020)

Sorry but I don't use EQ.
I have tested the HD800/sdr/S with more than a dozen amps , dacs and combos.
The best was with V280 but still a badly turned headphone.
First time I A/B the Clears with HD800S , I returned the Clears.
Then I kept them more than a year but something was always bugging me.
Of course it was the tonality and some other points like decay etc.
At the end I sold them and kept walking....
Now I am into the Empyreans all the way up.
I am willing to sell my car to buy them!


----------



## 491838

dleblanc343 said:


> Sadly Topping's gear kind of sounds lifeless and is really all about neutrality and amazing distortion figures. In this sense, your HD800 comes through as intended, and it's a very crisp monitor. I really do vouch for tube amps on a stock HD800, it's near mandatory unless you have something very dark. Now if you do input Oratory's parametric EQ, you'll be able to enjoy them, but keep in mind they'll sound much more different.


That's what I wanted: neutral sound. I am using them with oratory's 5-band profile and you can definitely tell the unit variation is so good that with this profile it follows the Harman target pretty much perfectly.

If I wasn't chasing that neutral coherent sound that works with all genres of music maybe I'd be into tube amps. I don't really think sources should color the sound of headphones.


----------



## JaZZ

gimmeheadroom said:


> From the Chord page, Power output @ 1kHz 1% THD: 94mW 300Ω
> 
> Looks kinda marginal. I think you would get some significant improvement with a lot more gutsy amp.


Given the HD 800's high sensitivity, the Hugo₂'s power reserves are luxurious. Enough is enough. But you can't have enough purity and transparency, which you inevitably compromize with re-amplifying the signal – something you kindly omit in your argumentation. 

I own both the HD 800 and the Hugo₂, just for clarification. And I own a bunch of headphone amps – which I never use anymore since my Chord DAC phase, although I could.


----------



## MacedonianHero

gimmeheadroom said:


> From the Chord page, Power output @ 1kHz 1% THD: 94mW 300Ω
> 
> Looks kinda marginal. I think you would get some significant improvement with a lot more gutsy amp.



The Hugo2 is definitely gutsy enough. I've owned this combination for a few years (still own the Hugo2 though) and was completely satisfied. Here are the numbers for the HD800/800S (300ohms and 100 dB/mW):






So 94mW puts the sound into almost the "Painful" category of 120dB SPL.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

MacedonianHero said:


> The Hugo2 is definitely gutsy enough. I've owned this combination for a few years (still own the Hugo2 though) and was completely satisfied. Here are the numbers for the HD800/800S (300ohms and 100 dB/mW):
> 
> 
> 
> So 94mW puts the sound into almost the "Painful" category of 120dB SPL.




Yeah but that's only at max volume and 1% THD is enough to hear, especially out of an 800. And what is not shown in the specs is how fast the amp can respond and other things that affect how good a headphone can sound that we don't really know how to measure.  The Hugo 2 spec listing shows the max output voltage of 3V which is also not enough. It's enough power to hurt your ears turned all the way up. It is likely not enough to get the best out of these cans.


----------



## JaZZ

gimmeheadroom said:


> Yeah but that's only at max volume and 1% THD is enough to hear, especially out of an 800. And what is not shown in the specs is how fast the amp can respond and other things that affect how good a headphone can sound that we don't really know how to measure.  The Hugo 2 spec listing shows the max output voltage of 3V which is also not enough. It's enough power to hurt your ears turned all the way up. It is likely not enough to get the best out of these cans.


Note that my rating and appreciation for this combination is based on listening experience, not just numbers. And when it comes to fast reaction to the input signal, the Hugo₂ alone is definitely faster than with any additional amplification stage in the signal path – also and particularly to my ears, not just theoretically. Like many you seem to mix up the sound from adding an amp with a technically more accurate signal reproduction. The HD 800 with its treble emphasis and low-bass roll-off may benefit from the colorations (harmonic distortion) generally added by all amps, a mechanism that suits the taste of many listeners, but is achieved by signal degradation and loss of transparency – often interpreted as technical superiority nonetheless. Personally I have distanced myself from this «equalizing by euphonic amplifier distortions» concept long ago and use equalizers instead – with clearly better results and no regret.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jun 18, 2020)

JaZZ said:


> Note that my rating and appreciation for this combination is based on listening experience, not just numbers. And when it comes to fast reaction to the input signal, the Hugo₂ alone is definitely faster than with any additional amplification stage in the signal path – also and particularly to my ears, not just theoretically. Like many you seem to mix up the sound from adding an amp with a technically more accurate signal reproduction. The HD 800 with its treble emphasis and low-bass roll-off may benefit from the colorations (harmonic distortion) generally added by all amps, a mechanism that suits the taste of many listeners, but is achieved by signal degradation and loss of transparency – often interpreted as technical superiority nonetheless. Personally I have distanced myself from this «equalizing by euphonic amplifier distortions» concept long ago and use equalizers instead – with clearly better results and no regret.



Ok, I appreciate that comment. I have no experience with that combo so I can only guess. I do have experience with other amps with output rated higher than that which don't sound good so I have a general sense that the 600/800 need more amp than the specs would suggest.

edited: lame spelling error totally changed the meaning


----------



## MacedonianHero

JaZZ said:


> Note that my rating and appreciation for this combination is based on listening experience, not just numbers. And when it comes to fast reaction to the input signal, the Hugo₂ alone is definitely faster than with any additional amplification stage in the signal path – also and particularly to my ears, not just theoretically. Like many you seem to mix up the sound from adding an amp with a technically more accurate signal reproduction. The HD 800 with its treble emphasis and low-bass roll-off may benefit from the colorations (harmonic distortion) generally added by all amps, a mechanism that suits the taste of many listeners, but is achieved by signal degradation and loss of transparency – often interpreted as technical superiority nonetheless. Personally I have distanced myself from this «equalizing by euphonic amplifier distortions» concept long ago and use equalizers instead – with clearly better results and no regret.



You can add me to listening experience first also...those measurements pretty much showed that the Hugo2 wasn't breaking a sweat with the HD800S.


----------



## 491838

Hmmm... the more I listen to the HD800 the more I start to think that its bass is better than the bass on the LCD-2 (I had the Fazor). What's evidently clear is that the HD800 has much better clarity *across the board *(yes, including bass). There are two issues with it though. It is slightly warm above 100 Hz (typical dynamic behavior) and also slightly rolled off, but it reacts well enough to EQ. But I think I can hear the sub bass rumble better than I did on the muddy sounding LCD-2. Yeah, Audeze have thick bass but does it really sound that tight?

That actually confused me when I first heard the LCD-2. I couldn't quite grasp how detailed the bass was because it sounded thick. I have a much better idea on the HD800 with its superior clarity. Just wish I still had the LCD-2 to compare but I think the HD800 would win on impact and detail potentially (though it can paradoxically sound a little weak on some songs that leverage the sub bass extension of Audeze planars; I'm guessing that's a trick).


----------



## elvergun

New headband arrived from an ebay seller in England -- it took forever to get here.  I'm good for the next five years or so.


----------



## joseph69

elvergun said:


> New headband arrived from an ebay seller in England -- it took forever to get here.  I'm good for the next five years or so.


If you don't mind me asking, are you located in the US?
If so, how long did it take to arrive? 
Thanks


----------



## elvergun

joseph69 said:


> If you don't mind me asking, are you located in the US?
> If so, how long did it take to arrive?
> Thanks



Yes, in San Diego.   I purchased it May 16 and it arrived today.   I actually thought it had been lost in transit.


----------



## JamieMcC

Covid would have added a substantial delay normally takes 14 days with roughly half the time stuck in the que waiting for customs clearance.


----------



## elvergun

JamieMcC said:


> Covid would have added a substantial delay normally takes 14 days with roughly half the time stuck in the que waiting for customs clearance.



That's what I'm thinking.   I thought about that before I ordered, but I had no choice though since I could not find the headband readily available in the States.  Now the choices are even more limited since the ebay merchant sold all of his inventory (217 HD800 headbands).


----------



## gimmeheadroom

elvergun said:


> That's what I'm thinking.   I thought about that before I ordered, but I had no choice though since I could not find the headband readily available in the States.  Now the choices are even more limited since the ebay merchant sold all of his inventory (217 HD800 headbands).



Hahah, now you'll pay a thousand euros a piece. I have the last supply of HD 800 headbands sitting in the trunk of my car


----------



## elvergun

gimmeheadroom said:


> Hahah, now you'll pay a thousand euros a piece. I have the last supply of HD 800 headbands sitting in the trunk of my car



Send a Headfi brother a spare.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

elvergun said:


> Send a Headfi brother a spare.



I would if I could. Paramedics impounded the car, next thing you know every ambulance was full of guys with HD 800s with new headbands...


----------



## koudairanger

Does this thread also talk about HD800S?
here's the story, currently using questyle 4 stack with NEI2001 to drive my HD800S, I'm using a audio sensibility statement silver to use as the balanced cable
but both the stock cable and this silver don't meet my expectations in terms of bass dynamic, indeed more than enough bass is there, but It took some pain to dive fast and deep------especially when I was quite the fan of HD25. I currently don't want to change the overall amp setup, which part should I try to change?
My best guess was that statement silver cable since it's only 24AWG silver, which is more like a portable setup instead of desktop, or maybe I should improve my power condition?(I only use basic output of my apartment)
Or maybe... just maybe, HD800s is not my best choice for a bouncy yet large sound?


----------



## greenblured

Listening to Red(kk) with the 650 or 800 is day and night. Hate the hazy 650!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Sure, 800 is as clear as it gets. Almost anything is a step down in resolution.


----------



## 491838

I posted my mini-review today: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/sennheiser-hd-800-headphones.6954/review/23873/


----------



## JamieMcC

Dealux said:


> I posted my mini-review today: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/sennheiser-hd-800-headphones.6954/review/23873/



Based on your postings here I can't help but feel it unfortunate you haven't been able to experience what the hd800 are capable of with a higher end set up as the hd800  just scales phenomenally.


----------



## 491838

JamieMcC said:


> Based on your postings here I can't help but feel it unfortunate you haven't been able to experience what the hd800 are capable of with a higher end set up as the hd800  just scales phenomenally.


They're very close to an ideal headphone even out of the A90 but my impressions have changed a bit since I switched to a better EQ profile recently.


----------



## Audiosolace

The HD800 require amplification to get a sound which is not lean


----------



## gimmeheadroom

<REDACTED>


----------



## wormsdriver

New paint job on a much needed earlier serial number hd800 (10xxx). Unfortunately I didn't take any before photos but they were pretty roughed up.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

wormsdriver said:


> New paint job on a much needed earlier serial number hd800 (10xxx). Unfortunately I didn't take any before photos but they were pretty roughed up.



Super job. I hate the color of my 800s. How hard was it to disassemble everything?


----------



## wormsdriver

elvergun said:


> Yes, in San Diego.   I purchased it May 16 and it arrived today.   I actually thought it had been lost in transit.


Hi @elvergun ,
Do you know if the seller was Audio Sanctuary? I'm about to order a headband (says they'll be restocked by mid July) and I'm wondering if it'll take anothet month after that.


----------



## wormsdriver (Jul 1, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> Super job. I hate the color of my 800s. How hard was it to disassemble everything?


Thanks!
Pretty easy. There's a video on YouTube of a guy doing the sdr mod and paint job. He explains how to disassemble the hd800.

I used satin spray paint. I wished I would have used matte instead. Does anybody know if I use a matte clear coat, will it give my satin finish a matte finish?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

wormsdriver said:


> Thanks!
> Pretty easy. There's a video on YouTube of a guy doing the sdr mod and paint job. He explains how to disassemble the hd800.
> 
> I used satin spray paint. I wished I would have used matte instead. Does anybody know if I use a matte clear coat, will it give my satin finish a matte finish?



Thanks. I will eventually look into it and maybe have an auto body shop do something with the parts. The only thing worse than the stock color is me trying to fix it


----------



## 491838

wormsdriver said:


> Hi @elvergun ,
> Do you know if the seller was Audio Sanctuary? I'm about to order a headband (says they'll be restocked by mid July) and I'm wondering if it'll take anothet month after that.


Audio Sanctuary is a UK company. I ordered pads from them and they arrived in a week essentially.


----------



## elvergun

The ebay merchant is called hifiheadphones2014.   

I just checked and he does not seem to have any HD800 headbands available.   He does have pads, but those are available in the States.    

He sold the inventory he had fairly fast.   When I purchased mine he had around 70 in stock.   By the time I received the package a month later he was sold out.     I was looking at how many he had left because I thought the package had been lost in transit...and he was the only one I could find that was selling them at the time.


----------



## 491838

On the topic of pads, how often do you think these need replacing? In my experience, Sennheiser pads wear out significantly in 2 years of average use. As a comparison, the AKG K712 velour/memory foam pads barely wore off after 2 years.


----------



## elvergun

Dealux said:


> On the topic of pads, how often do you think these need replacing? In my experience, Sennheiser pads wear out significantly in 2 years of average use. As a comparison, the AKG K712 velour/memory foam pads barely wore off after 2 years.



The pads on my unit started to flake after around 6 years.    I don't use the HD800 excessively since I have other headphones and I also listen to speakers.   They needed replacing because of their age more so than wear and tear.


----------



## elvergun

I've been using the HD800 exclusively for the last couple of days.  I still love them.   I have not heard anything which can replace them - their sound quality and comfort are hard to beat.

Today I had to switch to the T5p to take advantage of the isolation (my girlfriend is making a ruckus around the house).


----------



## elvergun

The ebay merchant ( hifiheadphones2014 ) has some headbands in stock again, BTW.  

Only 10 left...


----------



## Minuno

Hi, I’m potentially buying some HD800 cans, I’ve always wanted to try them but money has been the stumbling point. The phones are 2013 serial number 21###. The seller has told me that the headphones have only been used a Mx of 10 hours and he is the first owner. Can I ask are 800s a good buy when 7 years old?, are they durable or could I expect something to deteriorate quickly leaving me the proposed £600 purchase price out of pocket?. Do you guys think £600 is a good price and can anyone offer advice as to whether a pair of 7 year old headphones is recommended or could they be showing unseen signs of deterioration?. Thanks for any of your valued advice


----------



## bearFNF (Jul 16, 2020)

Minuno said:


> Hi, I’m potentially buying some HD800 cans, I’ve always wanted to try them but money has been the stumbling point. The phones are 2013 serial number 21###. The seller has told me that the headphones have only been used a Mx of 10 hours and he is the first owner. Can I ask are 800s a good buy when 7 years old?, are they durable or could I expect something to deteriorate quickly leaving me the proposed £600 purchase price out of pocket?. Do you guys think £600 is a good price and can anyone offer advice as to whether a pair of 7 year old headphones is recommended or could they be showing unseen signs of deterioration?. Thanks for any of your valued advice


  I've had mine for over 7 years and they work just fine and are still one of my go-to headphones.

Just for reference I've had a pair of stax lambda normal bias since the 1980s and they are still working great. I'd say it all depends on how well they were taken care of.

 If they truly only have about 10 hours on them I would consider that not even broken in yet.

Whether they're worth £600 is up to whether you like them or not.  I would personally say yes.


----------



## elvergun

Minuno said:


> Hi, I’m potentially buying some HD800 cans, I’ve always wanted to try them but money has been the stumbling point. The phones are 2013 serial number 21###. The seller has told me that the headphones have only been used a Mx of 10 hours and he is the first owner. Can I ask are 800s a good buy when 7 years old?, are they durable or could I expect something to deteriorate quickly leaving me the proposed £600 purchase price out of pocket?. Do you guys think £600 is a good price and can anyone offer advice as to whether a pair of 7 year old headphones is recommended or could they be showing unseen signs of deterioration?. Thanks for any of your valued advice



You might need to replace the pads and/or the headband padding...depending on the condition you find them in.   A max 10 hours is hard to believe though.    The price is good if the headphone is in good condition (and you should expect it to be since it only has been used for 10 hours...supposedly ).    

You might need to spend another £50-100 on pads if they are falling apart from age or use.    The HD800 should sound as good as it did 7 years ago.   This model is durable.   My pair is also around 7 years old and it looks brand new.   I did have to change the pads and the headband recently -- they fell apart due to age.


----------



## 491838

Definitely replace the pads. They don't last longer than 2 years with average use I would say. That's typical for Sennheiser.


----------



## Minuno

elvergun said:


> You might need to replace the pads and/or the headband padding...depending on the condition you find them in.   A max 10 hours is hard to believe though.    The price is good if the headphone is in good condition (and you should expect it to be since it only has been used for 10 hours...supposedly ).
> 
> You might need to spend another £50-100 on pads if they are falling apart from age or use.    The HD800 should sound as good as it did 7 years ago.   This model is durable.   My pair is also around 7 years old and it looks brand new.   I did have to change the pads and the headband recently -- they fell apart due to age.



So if the pads and headband are in first rate conditions then it’s probably a good sign?.


----------



## elvergun

Minuno said:


> So if the pads and headband are in first rate conditions then it’s probably a good sign?.


Kinda-sorta.    If they are in good condition then it is a good sign.   If they look like crap that does not mean that he is lying about the 10 hours of use.   Most pads start to self destruct after 5 years or so (unless the pads are made out of leather).  I put on Dekoni leather pads on my HD800 a month ago because I don't want to deal with this song and dance again five years from now.


----------



## Moak

elvergun said:


> Kinda-sorta.    If they are in good condition then it is a good sign.   If they look like crap that does not mean that he is lying about the 10 hours of use.   Most pads start to self destruct after 5 years or so (unless the pads are made out of leather).  I put on Dekoni leather pads on my HD800 a month ago because I don't want to deal with this song and dance again five years from now.


I bought a HD800 few weeks ago a from the netherlands in nearly new condition. He is from 06/2009 with S/N 1101 . One of the first. Pads and headband like new. I changed the pads to new leather pads but there is a little change of the sound signature. So, that I changed ist back to the original standard pads.


----------



## elvergun

Monolaf said:


> I bought a HD800 few weeks ago a from the netherlands in nearly new condition. He is from 06/2009 with S/N 1101 . One of the first. Pads and headband like new. I changed the pads to new leather pads but there is a little change of the sound signature. So, that I changed ist back to the original standard pads.



Yes, they do change the signature a little -- not too much though, and the end result is something I liked (if not, I would have replaced them with some stock pads).


----------



## bearFNF

elvergun said:


> Yes, they do change the signature a little -- not too much though, and the end result is something I liked (if not, I would have replaced them with some stock pads).


Agreed. I have the dekoni leather as I prefer them to the stock pads for comfort.


----------



## Moak

...and I‘ve to refresh a question:
Which amp will harmonize good with the HD800?
I have read some entries in several threads but maybe there is update?!
I have the Amity HPA9 S2 ...


----------



## eeagle

Monolaf said:


> ...and I‘ve to refresh a question:
> Which amp will harmonize good with the HD800?
> I have read some entries in several threads but maybe there is update?!
> I have the Amity HPA9 S2 ...


I've always been happy with the Sennheiser HDVD 800 which has been discontinued and replaced with the 820.  I use the HD800 w/balancd cable.  I've always felt OEM's design their gear to sound best with their HPs.


----------



## dleblanc343

Monolaf said:


> I bought a HD800 few weeks ago a from the netherlands in nearly new condition. He is from 06/2009 with S/N 1101 . One of the first. Pads and headband like new. I changed the pads to new leather pads but there is a little change of the sound signature. So, that I changed ist back to the original standard pads.


Beautiful serial number! If ever you sell it please put me atop your list


----------



## johnjen

As a general rule tube amps and the 800's pair well.
That isn't to say SS amps don't, but depending upon your sonic preferences, tubes add harmonic 'richness' which the 800's respond well to.

Also OTL amps can do well with the 800's 300-600Ω+ impedance range.
And inexpensive low cost amp is the Bottlehead Crack which is OTL.
It is a kit but are available already built.

Think of it as a 'fun amp' to compare with your existing amp.

JJ


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Monolaf said:


> ...and I‘ve to refresh a question:
> Which amp will harmonize good with the HD800?
> I have read some entries in several threads but maybe there is update?!
> I have the Amity HPA9 S2 ...



Tube OTL amps especially. But V280 is a top all-around amp if you want solid state.


----------



## Moak

gimmeheadroom said:


> Tube OTL amps especially. But V280 is a top all-around amp if you want solid state.


Which tube amp (not to expensive) do you mean?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Monolaf said:


> Which tube amp (not to expensive) do you mean?



Just generally 300 ohm Sennheisers sound great out of tube amps. And the 800/800S can use the warmth.

You could look to Feliks.pl or get a used Schiit. There are many others.


----------



## DenverW

Has anyone had any experience with these pads?  It would be nice to find an alternative to the $70 official ones.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Replacemen...ennheiserHD800-HD800S-Headphones/222975590094


----------



## grooveriders

Hi guys, I just got the HD800 . Now trying to find an amp to go along with the hd800. Currently using (mass)drop CTH with stock tube.
With a budget of $300 - I'm looking between the smsl sp200 thx888 (around $270 in my country, $180-$200 secondhanded) and Darkvoice 336SE (around $270 shipped + tax)
Knowing that the smsl sp200 can be used on low gin on iems as well is a bonus for me, but if the sound for hd800 is superior on the DarkVoice 336E then Im considering it. Do you guys have any other amp recommendtion in this price range ($300)?


----------



## Gadril

grooveriders said:


> Hi guys, I just got the HD800 . Now trying to find an amp to go along with the hd800. Currently using (mass)drop CTH with stock tube.
> With a budget of $300 - I'm looking between the smsl sp200 thx888 (around $270 in my country, $180-$200 secondhanded) and Darkvoice 336SE (around $270 shipped + tax)
> Knowing that the smsl sp200 can be used on low gin on iems as well is a bonus for me, but if the sound for hd800 is superior on the DarkVoice 336E then Im considering it. Do you guys have any other amp recommendtion in this price range ($300)?



The THX amp can be a bit grating (too clinical) for some people when coupled with a already insanely revealing headphone like the HD800. Generally for HD800 its recommended to go for warmer SS amps like the Asgard 3 or to just go tubes, one of the most popular being the Bottlehead Crack Speedball, but one of the best tubes for your budget would be the Valhalla 2.


----------



## joseph69

Not that I've ever heard the pairing, but I remember reading how well the Woo Audio WA3 pairs with the 800, yet I haven't seen anyone recommend to those who have been asking.


----------



## grooveriders

joseph69 said:


> Not that I've ever heard the pairing, but I remember reading how well the Woo Audio WA3 pairs with the 800, yet I haven't seen anyone recommend to those who have been asking.


Thanks but those are wayyy out of my budget ($1000 here in my country)




Gadril said:


> The THX amp can be a bit grating (too clinical) for some people when coupled with a already insanely revealing headphone like the HD800. Generally for HD800 its recommended to go for warmer SS amps like the Asgard 3 or to just go tubes, one of the most popular being the Bottlehead Crack Speedball, but one of the best tubes for your budget would be the Valhalla 2.



Ill take a look into Vhalla 2 thanks for the rec.


----------



## Ichos

Valhalla 2 is not a good match for HD800/S.
It lacks body and slam and has edgy upper mids and highs no matter the tubes.
Better buy a Vali or a Lyr.


----------



## G0rt

Ichos said:


> Valhalla 2 is not a good match for HD800/S.
> It lacks body and slam and has edgy upper mids and highs no matter the tubes.
> Better buy a Vali or a Lyr.



Somewhat, although I'm not sure I'd be shopping for slam in the 800 family, but moreso the 660/700. Mjolnir delivers some.

Lyr3 and a planar could probably slam your head flat.


----------



## Gadril

Ichos said:


> Valhalla 2 is not a good match for HD800/S.
> It lacks body and slam and has edgy upper mids and highs no matter the tubes.
> Better buy a Vali or a Lyr.


If he goes lyr better watch to not blow anything up tho, as from my understanding it still has that particular problem on the new models.


----------



## G0rt

Gadril said:


> If he goes lyr better watch to not blow anything up tho, as from my understanding it still has that particular problem on the new models.



Lyr3 hasn't had that issue for a long time.

I got one of the originals, used, some of which may still be in circulation. It ate some of my cans, when I fed it bad tubes.

Schiit fixed it, and it's now one of my favorite things.

ATM, Lyr3 and a 7N7 Frankie driving LCD-3f, playlist Chevelle, Evans Blue, 10 Years, 32 Leaves ... Nom.


----------



## Moak

Is there someone who prefer the Drop THX 789 with the HD800 or should I better search for a tube amp like Valhalla?
I could buy a used 789 but I‘m not shure if he help me. I‘ve a Amity HPA 9 S2 but he doesn‘t harmonize with my HD800


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Monolaf said:


> Is there someone who prefer the Drop THX 789 with the HD800 or should I better search for a tube amp like Valhalla?
> I could buy a used 789 but I‘m not shure if he help me. I‘ve a Amity HPA 9 S2 but he doesn‘t harmonize with my HD800



A clinical THX amp would be death with the 800s without EQ.

Tube OTL all the way. If not, at least something like a V280 that won't pierce your skull.


----------



## Ichos

Lyr 3 is better synergy than the Valhalla 2.
It was the first Amp a got rid of when I owned HD800 and 800s.
Just my point of view of course.


----------



## Moak

Ok, thank you.
What‘s about a Little Dot MKIII or a Loxjie P20 or Little bear? I read that a Bottlehed and Feliks are very good but a little bit to expensive for me.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

The 800s will let you hear everything and hate most of what you used to like. If you buy a cheap amp to drive them you will want to throw yourself off of a tall building.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

This guy @Jan Meier is a member here and makes great stuff. Since you are in Germany, take a look at https://www.meier-audio.de click on amplifiers, and find the Corda Jazz-ff on sale for 260 euros. It will be difficult to find something better anywhere near the price. Jan is a great guy and has a very good reputation. I have several orders with him including the Jazz-ff amp. To be honest, I did not try it with my HD 800s but it does a great job with my HD 600s.


----------



## Moak

gimmeheadroom said:


> The 800s will let you hear everything and hate most of what you used to like. If you buy a cheap amp to drive them you will want to throw yourself off of a tall building.


 Good answer!
...ok, yes, I was afraid of that answer.
...but I‘ve a Stax environment which is my Prio1 ...therefore I‘ve to look that the 2nd part with the HD800 has to be cheaper🥴


----------



## Moak

gimmeheadroom said:


> This guy @Jan Meier is a member here and makes great stuff. Since you are in Germany, take a look at https://www.meier-audio.de click on amplifiers, and find the Corda Jazz-ff on sale for 260 euros. It will be difficult to find something better anywhere near the price. Jan is a great guy and has a very good reputation. I have several orders with him including the Jazz-ff amp. To be honest, I did not try it with my HD 800s but it does a great job with my HD 600s.


Yes, I know Jan Meier and I had contact to him. I owned a Corda Jazz (wirhout ff) but I doesn‘t liked this amp...I sells him. But I owned not the HD800 at that time. 
Yes, maybe I could give the Jazz-ff a chance, too. That is a super price for this device. Thank you for the hint 👍


----------



## grooveriders

gimmeheadroom said:


> This guy @Jan Meier is a member here and makes great stuff. Since you are in Germany, take a look at https://www.meier-audio.de click on amplifiers, and find the Corda Jazz-ff on sale for 260 euros. It will be difficult to find something better anywhere near the price. Jan is a great guy and has a very good reputation. I have several orders with him including the Jazz-ff amp. To be honest, I did not try it with my HD 800s but it does a great job with my HD 600s.


So the Corda Jazz-ff can be a replacement for a tube amp? if so I am also interested in getting one myself, just shot Meier an email.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

grooveriders said:


> So the Corda Jazz-ff can be a replacement for a tube amp? if so I am also interested in getting one myself, just shot Meier an email.



It's not a replacement but it's a very musical amp with a slight touch of warmth. And I believe Jan tests with Beyers and Sennheisers (he's an authorized dealer) so his amps drive 300-600 ohm dynamics very well.


----------



## grooveriders

gimmeheadroom said:


> It's not a replacement but it's a very musical amp with a slight touch of warmth. And I believe Jan tests with Beyers and Sennheisers (he's an authorized dealer) so his amps drive 300-600 ohm dynamics very well.


Thanks for the recommendation ! I might very well get this amp.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

grooveriders said:


> Thanks for the recommendation ! I might very well get this amp.



It's a good match with a lot of headphones. It drives my Audeze LCD-2C beautifully also. I paid full price and I think it was fair. For the sale price it's killer.


----------



## Ken G

johnjen said:


> As a general rule tube amps and the 800's pair well.
> That isn't to say SS amps don't, but depending upon your sonic preferences, tubes add harmonic 'richness' which the 800's respond well to.
> 
> Also OTL amps can do well with the 800's 300-600Ω+ impedance range.
> ...



Does Bottlehead sell pre-assembled Cracks? Or is it just after market sellers?


----------



## johnjen

I remember that on the bottlehead forum where there were pre-built Cracks available, or those who would build them for you.

JJ


----------



## Shahrose

Got a decent HP collection now and I still find the HD800 (original) easily hangs with all of them. Just a technical masterpiece of a headphone with true scalability. Buy them and forget about them, just focus on your ancillaries.


----------



## elvergun

Shahrose said:


> *Got a decent HP collection now and I still find the HD800 (original) easily hangs with all of them*. Just a technical masterpiece of a headphone with true scalability. Buy them and forget about them, just focus on your ancillaries.


 
So true.   I have not found another headphone that made me say, "yeah, this one destroys the HD800, therefore I will go through the trouble of selling the Sennheiser and buy this instead".    With the current prices of flagships going through the roof, the HD800 is not only a technical masterpiece, it is a freaking bargain.  

I wonder how many users move on to another model not because they found a better headphone, but because it is the FOTM.    One has to learn how to resist the hype trains.


----------



## Shahrose

elvergun said:


> So true.   I have not found another headphone that made me say, "yeah, this one destroys the HD800, therefore I will go through the trouble of selling the Sennheiser and buy this instead".    With the current prices of flagships going through the roof, the HD800 is not only a technical masterpiece, *it is a freaking bargain*.
> 
> I wonder how many users move on to another model not because they found a better headphone, but because it is the FOTM.    One has to learn how to resist the hype trains.



Agreed. If only people knew how much of a bargain, most would have one even if the sound wasn't their preferred signature. They're impressively amenable to EQ and cable changes (obviously source/amp too).


----------



## Minuno (Aug 7, 2020)

I today received a pair of used 2018 HD800s, unfortunately on excitedly opening the box I noted that the top right sided cable (where the cable splits into two ) has a split in the plastic sheaf that covers the inner cabling. The seller says he didn’t honestly check the cabling that well before despatch, which I guess could be the case as he seems an honest chap when I purchased. Can I apply 4:1 shrink wrap over this split?. It’s about 1 inch in length. I’m a bit gutted to be honest as these cables ain’t cheap by anyone’s imagination to replace.


----------



## johnjen

Yes that will 'fix' the problem, which at least at this point, is more a cosmetic than a functional issue.

JJ


----------



## Minuno

johnjen said:


> Yes that will 'fix' the problem, which at least at this point, is more a cosmetic than a functional issue.
> 
> JJ



I have read many posts both here and elsewhere of this outer black sheath splitting only to be repaired and consequently splitting further down the top cabling?.Do you think that putting shrink completely over this Upper dual cable could make it less prone to crack?. I don’t want to have to do this and then in a few weeks have to do it again and then again?. Also are the lower cables wrapped around one another (twisted) at the factory as that cable is twisted all the way to the Jack plug. Not buying these new i don’t know what the cable is like fresh out of the box. Thanks.
Is the silver cable what you can see under the sheath in my picture one continual wrap of wire and if cut would lead to signal loss. Thanks a bunch.


----------



## johnjen

Say there.
It does seem to be true that once the outer sheath starts to 'break apart' it does not stop.
And putting heat shrink on the whole length of that portion of the cable will make it rather stiff as well.

I don't recall the main portion of the cable being twisted like that but it has been many years since I last saw a stock cable.
Perhaps others will chime in and have a better answer.

The exposed wires you see are the 'shield' (outer wrap) around the inner conductor.
If all of them were cut then yes that channel would go dead, but if just a couple of the strands were broken that channel would still function.

I would suggest an after market cable would be your best option, and used ones can be found for less £'s than a new stock cable.
I mention this because once the outer jacket starts to fall apart it won't stop and eventually replacement is your only option.

an example…
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AUDIO123-5...500498?hash=item25a5443492:g:laYAAOSw34FVCuqW

JJ


----------



## gimmeheadroom

In Europe, customcans.co.uk is a great shop, good prices, good workmanship and materials. No need to pay big money for even a balanced cable.


----------



## grooveriders

Is violectric hpa v281 considered TOTL amp for the HD800. Just ordered my smsl sp200 and saw this v281 for sale in my country for $1250 (second handed). Is it worth the price, any other top/high end amp recommendation for this price range?

Also would Focal Clear be an side/upgrade to the HD800, considering that I got my HD800 for around $500, the clear cost around $900 (both prices for second hand).


----------



## gimmeheadroom

grooveriders said:


> Is violectric hpa v281 considered TOTL amp for the HD800. Just ordered my smsl sp200 and saw this v281 for sale in my country for $1250 (second handed). Is it worth the price, any other top/high end amp recommendation for this price range?
> 
> Also would Focal Clear be an side/upgrade to the HD800, considering that I got my HD800 for around $500, the clear cost around $900 (both prices for second hand).



Yes, the 280/281 are really tremendous. I think you will find the THX amps are too sterile for the HD 800 and will not be a good match. The 280/281 is neutral, tank-like build, huge power. The price is fine for one in great condition.

I have not heard the Clear. But I guess it would be warmer than the 800 which is quite analytical and not romantic at all.


----------



## wormsdriver

I've owned both the v280 and 281 (not at the same time) and they are the best I've personally heard with the hd800. I have not owned any high end tube amps so I don't know about those.


----------



## grooveriders

@gimmeheadroom @wormsdriver  Thanks!


----------



## grooveriders

Another problem with my hd800,
My HD800 is modded with internal cable mods (cable is soldered to the inner connector of the hd800 with 3.5mm on the ohter end) and would like to use the 4-pin xlr without paying for another cable mod. For the moment I am still waiting for my smsl sp200 amp and I know that the balanced and SE output is the same (correct me if Im wrong) but I am looking foward to future upgrade to amps with more power in the xlr output. Would the 3.5mm (Female) to balanced xlr (male) improve the sound quality or power output instead of using the 3.5mm to 6.3mm SE convertor? And would it short circuit the amp?
Another option would be to remove the current 3.5mm and solder it to new 4pin xlr. But then the cable would be too short ( current cable lenght is 1m excluding the connector).
Last resort is to replace the whole cable which I am afraid that it might damage the hd800's internal connector pins.
Any suggestion is highly appreciated.


----------



## Minuno

Could I ask how tight the HD800s is supposed to be on the side of your head?, as mine don’t appear to put any noticeable pressure in comparison to my 600 and 650s which exert a noticeable sideways pressure when putting them on . My 800s don’t have any pressure on the ears at all?. Is this to be expected please?. As stated I am the second owner of them and haven’t tried on any new ones in a store, so I don’t know what is Correct? Or to be expected. The adjustable headband markers also move and open held in the hand by the weight of the speaker units is this common?. Although the headphones are very comfortable there is no resistance or pressure on my ears in  comparison to other Sennheisers I own.


----------



## johnjen

When the 800's are 'properly worn' they should not touch any portion of your outer ears, at all, anywhere…

That is one of their strengths, that they don't influence the ears physically at all.

The 800's are light enough such that they should draw only minimal attention to themselves while being worn.

JJ


----------



## Minuno

johnjen said:


> When the 800's are 'properly worn' they should not touch any portion of your outer ears, at all, anywhere…
> 
> That is one of their strengths, that they don't influence the ears physically at all.
> 
> ...


Apologies I meant around the outer ear, I appreciate that they don’t touch the ear itself or shouldn’t but what about lateral pressure from the pad onto the head. Mine do feel comfortable granted!. Maybe my pads are a little worn and consequently the foam has a lower resistance making them feel a tad slack?.


----------



## johnjen

grooveriders said:


> Another problem with my hd800,
> My HD800 is modded with internal cable mods (cable is soldered to the inner connector of the hd800 with 3.5mm on the ohter end) and would like to use the 4-pin xlr without paying for another cable mod. For the moment I am still waiting for my smsl sp200 amp and I know that the balanced and SE output is the same (correct me if Im wrong) but I am looking foward to future upgrade to amps with more power in the xlr output. Would the 3.5mm (Female) to balanced xlr (male) improve the sound quality or power output instead of using the 3.5mm to 6.3mm SE convertor? And would it short circuit the amp?
> Another option would be to remove the current 3.5mm and solder it to new 4pin xlr. But then the cable would be too short ( current cable lenght is 1m excluding the connector).
> Last resort is to replace the whole cable which I am afraid that it might damage the hd800's internal connector pins.
> Any suggestion is highly appreciated.


To run the 800's balanced you need 4 separate wires at the TRRS or 4-pin xlr connector.
If the existing 3.5mm connector is just a TRS (wired for common ground ie single ended) then it can't simply be plugged into an adapter and magically be transformed into a balanced connection.

For a true balanced connection, the TRS connector will have to be cut off or un-soldered, and then all 4 wires separated from each other and then properly soldered to the balanced connector.
IOW all 4 wires are used as separate connections and none are 'cross connected'.

JJ


----------



## johnjen

Minuno said:


> Apologies I meant around the outer ear, I appreciate that they don’t touch the ear itself or shouldn’t but what about lateral pressure from the pad onto the head. Mine do feel comfortable granted!. Maybe my pads are a little worn and consequently the foam has a lower resistance making them feel a tad slack?.


If they stay on your head then there is 'enough' lateral pressure.
This is what I meant by "they should draw only minimal attention to themselves while being worn."


----------



## wormsdriver

grooveriders said:


> Another problem with my hd800,
> My HD800 is modded with internal cable mods (cable is soldered to the inner connector of the hd800 with 3.5mm on the ohter end) and would like to use the 4-pin xlr without paying for another cable mod. For the moment I am still waiting for my smsl sp200 amp and I know that the balanced and SE output is the same (correct me if Im wrong) but I am looking foward to future upgrade to amps with more power in the xlr output. Would the 3.5mm (Female) to balanced xlr (male) improve the sound quality or power output instead of using the 3.5mm to 6.3mm SE convertor? And would it short circuit the amp?
> Another option would be to remove the current 3.5mm and solder it to new 4pin xlr. But then the cable would be too short ( current cable lenght is 1m excluding the connector).
> Last resort is to replace the whole cable which I am afraid that it might damage the hd800's internal connector pins.
> Any suggestion is highly appreciated.


3.5mm female to 4pin XLR male is not an option.
Changing the 3.5mm to 4 pin XLR would be the best option IMO and should be relatively easy to do. Also, the length should remain about the same.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

grooveriders said:


> Another problem with my hd800,
> My HD800 is modded with internal cable mods (cable is soldered to the inner connector of the hd800 with 3.5mm on the ohter end) and would like to use the 4-pin xlr without paying for another cable mod. For the moment I am still waiting for my smsl sp200 amp and I know that the balanced and SE output is the same (correct me if Im wrong) but I am looking foward to future upgrade to amps with more power in the xlr output. Would the 3.5mm (Female) to balanced xlr (male) improve the sound quality or power output instead of using the 3.5mm to 6.3mm SE convertor? And would it short circuit the amp?
> Another option would be to remove the current 3.5mm and solder it to new 4pin xlr. But then the cable would be too short ( current cable lenght is 1m excluding the connector).
> Last resort is to replace the whole cable which I am afraid that it might damage the hd800's internal connector pins.
> Any suggestion is highly appreciated.



I don't understand this or why somebody would do that. The stock setup was perfectly fine aside from the bizarre connectors. But changing them could make it worse if they used only one 3,5...

Maybe post some pics


----------



## grooveriders

@johnjen @wormsdriver Thanks both! I think I will replace the connector head. So the cable is 4 cores seprated to 2 for each left/right side. Now if I understand correctly the 3.5mm connector has 3 poles (Left/right and ground) If I were to re-wire/solder to new 4 pin xlr how to tell which ground is for left or right? Just askijng but I will probably let the wiring guy to solder


----------



## grooveriders (Aug 10, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> I don't understand this or why somebody would do that. The stock setup was perfectly fine aside from the bizarre connectors. But changing them could make it worse if they used only one 3,5...
> 
> Maybe post some pics


I got this second hand and the mod was already done. And for the price I am okay with it. I got it for $500. Please dont flame me for the color mod, I dont like it either XD


----------



## Ken G

grooveriders said:


> I got this second hand and the mod was already done. And for the price I am okay with it. I got it for $500. Please dont flame me for the color mod, I dont like it either XD


I quite like the color. $500 is a steal.


----------



## Minuno

I also like the colour very nice!.


----------



## wormsdriver (Aug 10, 2020)

grooveriders said:


> @johnjen @wormsdriver Thanks both! I think I will replace the connector head. So the cable is 4 cores seprated to 2 for each left/right side. Now if I understand correctly the 3.5mm connector has 3 poles (Left/right and ground) If I were to re-wire/solder to new 4 pin xlr how to tell which ground is for left or right? Just askijng but I will probably let the wiring guy to solder


You'll need a multimeter. Also you'll need to partially disassemble one of the cups to reveal where the solder tabs of the driver are. After that, just touch the negative tab with one end of the multimeter probes and then take the other probe to the other end of the wires and whichever wire reacts is the one you're looking for. Forgot to mention you set your multimeter to ohms.

If you need help with disassembly, there's a video on YouTube of a guy doing the super Dupont resonator mod and paint mod on an hd800. Look for that and it shows a step by step how to disassemble an hd800.

Edit: here's a picture I recently took. With the cable coming out of the bottom, you can see the negative is on the top side and positive on bottom.


----------



## grooveriders

wormsdriver said:


> You'll need a multimeter. Also you'll need to partially disassemble one of the cups to reveal where the solder tabs of the driver are. After that, just touch the negative tab with one end of the multimeter probes and then take the other probe to the other end of the wires and whichever wire reacts is the one you're looking for. Forgot to mention you set your multimeter to ohms.
> 
> If you need help with disassembly, there's a video on YouTube of a guy doing the super Dupont resonator mod and paint mod on an hd800. Look for that and it shows a step by step how to disassemble an hd800.
> 
> Edit: here's a picture I recently took. With the cable coming out of the bottom, you can see the negative is on the top side and positive on bottom.



 Thankyou so much!


----------



## joseph69

grooveriders said:


> @johnjen @wormsdriver Thanks both! I think I will replace the connector head. So the cable is 4 cores seprated to 2 for each left/right side. Now if I understand correctly the 3.5mm connector has 3 poles (Left/right and ground) If I were to re-wire/solder to new 4 pin xlr how to tell which ground is for left or right? Just askijng but I will probably let the wiring guy to solder


Here are the wiring colors for the HD800 to make a 4-pin XLR (or TRRS) balanced termination.


----------



## johnjen

Another example of a hardwired 800.
This shows the wire gauge difference between stock and monstrously oversized (18g) wire.


This is after surgery has been completed. 


As you can see I LIKE big wires, everywhere…
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

JJ


----------



## grooveriders

@joseph69 Thankyou!



johnjen said:


> Another example of a hardwired 800.
> This shows the wire gauge difference between stock and monstrously oversized (18g) wire.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks John!
I just ordered some soldering wire (oyaide ss47) and will practice on soldering in the meanwhile. Would love to make some diy cables for my iem also.


----------



## Minuno (Aug 11, 2020)

It’s interesting to actually see the diameter of the cable attached to the female inner end.  it makes me wonder whats the point in paying so much for aftermarket cables such as Cardas et al
?, when they end up connecting to such thin wires internally!. One would guess that in order to get the benefit of using enhanced cabling then that cabling should run from phono or balance connector all the way to the transducers themselves?.


----------



## grooveriders (Aug 11, 2020)

Minuno said:


> It’s interesting to actually see the diameter of the cable attached to the female inner end.  it makes me wonder whats the point in paying so much for aftermarket cables such as Cardas et al
> ?, when they end up connecting to such thin wires internally!. One would guess that in order to get the benefit of using enhanced cabling then that cabling should run from phono or balance connector all the way to the transducers themselves?.


After seeing the picture John (and wormsdriver) posted, I wondered abit too. The internal wires are as small as those iem cables so are there any point in after market cables especially the ones that cost $500 and up, wouldnt the signal be reduced to the smaller internal wire?


----------



## johnjen (Aug 11, 2020)

I kinda wonder if those tiny internal wires are a form of 'dampening' resistor, because they are even smaller than the internal wires used in their stock cable.  It made very little sense to me but then I figure that Senn has a reason and using a chunk of wire that small could be a resistive element, which makes mores sense than anything else I can come up with.

One additional note about hardwiring…
Use as little amount of heat (use a low wattage iron) in as short an amount of time to solder the lead in wires to the solder posts on the driver.
Mostly because the surrounding structure is plastic and you do not want to melt any of that.

JJ


----------



## wormsdriver

johnjen said:


> Another example of a hardwired 800.
> This shows the wire gauge difference between stock and monstrously oversized (18g) wire.
> 
> 
> ...


I noticed on your mod the positive lead is on the top tab (with the cable going downwards) and on my photo with the stock wires the positive lead is on bottom. 
Which one is right? Does matter as long as both drivers are wire the same, right?


----------



## johnjen

As long as both L&R are wired the same no it doesn't make any difference EXCEPT for absolute polarity.

In my rig I can control absolute polarity quite easily so it wasn't a big deal for me.
And it can be quite easily 'corrected' at the TRRS or 4 pin XLR connector, rather than at the drivers themselves.

And here is a pic of my original wiring, that I used for the re-wire, just for reference.



JJ


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Small wires for short runs where there is not much current are ok. There is a theoretical benefit to going with larger wire diameter for longer runs but if you look at the books, current and voltage capacity for even thin wire is surprisingly high.


----------



## johnjen (Aug 12, 2020)

Yes that is very true, especially for steady state signals.
But with music and it's propensity for wide dynamic range, a wide frequency bandwidth, and 'intermittant' signals, the static measurements made to determine the current carrying capacity of wire, while using a fixed or limited bandwidth, can lead to misleading conclusions.

JJ


----------



## gimmeheadroom

johnjen said:


> Yes that is very true, especially for steady state signals.
> But with music and it's propensity for wide dynamic range, a wide frequency bandwidth, and 'intermittant' signals, the static measurements made to determine the current carrying capacity while using a fixed or limited bandwidth, can lead to misleading conclusions.
> 
> JJ



I agree with that but it is not an issue at audio frequencies. So we don't have the concern in hifi setups.


----------



## johnjen

Yes that also is true IF you are only paying attention to the audio bandwidth. 
But music contains signals that are definitely not stead state in all 3 domains (voltage, current, frequency) which is not how wire capability is measured and then rated.

Which consequently can help to explain why over sized conductors can definitely make a difference.
I have proven this to myself over and over again in my experiments involving power and signal delivery.

JJ


----------



## ktsai1283

Minuno said:


> Apologies I meant around the outer ear, I appreciate that they don’t touch the ear itself or shouldn’t but what about lateral pressure from the pad onto the head. Mine do feel comfortable granted!. Maybe my pads are a little worn and consequently the foam has a lower resistance making them feel a tad slack?.



I had the HD 800 and the HD 600. The HD 600 clamp (pad-to-head) much tighter. There were times when I thought the HD 800 would fall off my head in comparison, but they never did--the HD 800 doesn't really make its presence known once it's on your head and that quality makes it one of the most comfortable headphones I have owned.


----------



## joseph69

ktsai1283 said:


> the HD 800 doesn't really make its presence known once it's on your head and that quality makes it one of the most comfortable headphones I have owned.


+1


----------



## gimmeheadroom

ktsai1283 said:


> I had the HD 800 and the HD 600. The HD 600 clamp (pad-to-head) much tighter. There were times when I thought the HD 800 would fall off my head in comparison, but they never did--the HD 800 doesn't really make its presence known once it's on your head and that quality makes it one of the most comfortable headphones I have owned.



The 600 clamp is true vice-grip on your head no doubt. The good news is it makes Beyer DTs child's play


----------



## Lord Raven

elvergun said:


> They look like the ones Geekria sells.   I don't believe those are the same as the Dekoni.
> 
> If those are the only ones available for you to purchase I would go for it.  I almost bought the Geekria.   The reason I chose the Dekoni is that I have a set of their pads on my T5p made from the softest memory foam I have ever touched.   Unfortunately, the HD800 pads seem to be made from a different type of foam - still comfy, yet not as soft as the other ones.
> 
> Be aware, however, that I recently purchased a set of Accessory House pads for my Denon D2000 and I had to send them back.   The AH Fostex/Denon pads are stiff and uncomfortable --  I could only use the D2000 for around 10 minutes or so at a time.



Hi elvergun,

I hope you are well. I was away, not doing much of head-fi. Photography is an equally challenging hobby for me 

I read your response a couple of times and realized the I was going to buy from Accessory House, so many reviewers say that leather pads made a worse sound effect and they ended up sending it back. Even on Dekoni website, the FR graph shows that there is a drop in the lower end. But people claim that they are listening to a boost in the lower end? How is that even possible?

Could you or anyone please explain this


----------



## elvergun

Lord Raven said:


> Hi elvergun,
> 
> I hope you are well. I was away, not doing much of head-fi. Photography is an equally challenging hobby for me
> 
> ...



I've read positive pad reviews (for other headphone models) which I thought sounded terrible or were uncomfortable.   It's all relative, I suppose. 

I don't know how it is possible, but I do hear a boost in bass.   It's not a drastic increase, so don't expect a night and day difference.   

Buy the pads from a place with a good return policy and try it yourself (and post your findings here).    I was happy with my purchase, but remember that I was not trying to get a better signature, I was just trying to replace the stock pads that where in bad shape.


----------



## WadaHiFi

why is he cardas clear cable so popular for hd800?


----------



## bagwell359

WadaHiFi said:


> why is he cardas clear cable so popular for hd800?



Word of mouth.  Never heard it myself.


----------



## WadaHiFi

bagwell359 said:


> Word of mouth.  Never heard it myself.


I know about 10 hd800 owner irl half of them have the cardas clear or one of the moon audio cables so im just kinda curious.


----------



## bagwell359 (Aug 31, 2020)

WadaHiFi said:


> I know about 10 hd800 owner irl half of them have the cardas clear or one of the moon audio cables so im just kinda curious.



Well not that I belong to the all cables sound alike school - which I do not:

Yes word of mouth, also the 800 had and still has a certain elite feeling to it, so get the best amp, cables, pads to get the most out of it.

I tend NOT to buy retail from high end dealers, which cuts down my access to quite a bit of fancy stuff.  That's my excuse for not having heard all the current fancy cables.  It could be a time thing.  Hmmmm... check out 5 fancy cables, or do what my buddy whose ears I trust did with the 800?  Easy.

Or based on no input but reviews, take a stab - could work out, or it might not, or worst of all, get influenced by a sales guy into buying something that could be duplicated at 13% or 22% of the price.

Each individual case is different.  I do buy/build above the Amazon cables most of the time, but after my used $150 power cable held up against a $5k unit back in the 90's, I sure can see the other side.


----------



## robo24

That Dekoni graph makes it look like someone thought, gee the biggest problem with the HD800 is it has too much bass and too small of a 7k spike, so I got the solution right here with these pads!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

WadaHiFi said:


> I know about 10 hd800 owner irl half of them have the cardas clear or one of the moon audio cables so im just kinda curious.



Depends where you live. In Europe, customcans makes great cables for fair prices.


----------



## H20Fidelity

I've owned HD800S in the past and while they were nice I couldn't help shake a comment I read saying "HD800S sounds like they removed all the energy from the original". Ever since I'd been set on trying the original. I ended up finding a pair used and replaced the pads and headband with authentic ones. They were pretty much perfect, right inline with my preferences and the source hunting began. Juggling through sources I picked up a peak in the mid-treble region, (the one mentioned around 6k). Its boderline on my threshold and stands out more on certain track and volume level, just needs that edge taken off.

I'm usually against EQ but gave in to adding a small decrease 1-2db using the default foobar2000 EQ, the changes where there but I was wanting more, to dial in exactly where the peak is and get the job done while minizing effect on the rest of the response.

I dug around and found this DSP plug-in called Mathaudio Headphone EQ, it uses a sweep tone to find the exact position of the peak and adjust it with much flexlbltity

I'll leave a link to the instructions and the free version (there is a paid version but free one is enough for me)

https://mathaudio.com/headphone-eq.htm

I'm still going to roll sources, atm my DAC is in for repair so using JDS Labs The Element.


----------



## thecrow

WadaHiFi said:


> why is he cardas clear cable so popular for hd800?


i have demoed the cardas clear - it enriched the mids in a semi-big inviting way.
really sweetens them up

for me, it was a bit too mid focussed. for me. it was not necessarily overdone but i wanted a different sound - more detail right across the board as i am already using the woo wa2.

I do understand why people enjoy this offering


----------



## Nooborghini (Sep 30, 2020)

I just received my HD800. I'm not 100% sure where people are getting this 6khz peak fatigue from. I don't even think I wanna SDR mod this. The bass is clean and fast.
I originally got the HD820 because my original purchase of HD800s took forever to get to me and they just ended up providing me the HD820 instead.

After 4+ months of reading about the HD800 having a peak and fatiguing, I don't really see where people get how it is OVERWHELMINGLY terrible to the point where don't like it. I even tested with really high pitch 8-bit music to most Nintendo game soundtracks and don't hear it. I can kind of see on some songs it may be harsh for some people but  honestly, when I first got my HD820, the treble on those were more piercing than my HD800.

I played both from my SMSL M200 + SMSL SP200 and I enjoy the HD800 better, granted my dog isn't freaking out then I swap to HD820.

Is there something wrong with me?

EDIT: I also thought I was gonna have to Tube these but I don't think I need to. Just wow.


----------



## ruinedx

Nooborghini said:


> I just received my HD800. I'm not 100% sure where people are getting this 6khz peak fatigue from. I don't even think I wanna SDR mod this. The bass is clean and fast.
> I originally got the HD820 because my original purchase of HD800s took forever to get to me and they just ended up providing me the HD820 instead.
> 
> After 4+ months of reading about the HD800 having a peak and fatiguing, I don't really see where people get how it is OVERWHELMINGLY terrible to the point where don't like it. I even tested with really high pitch 8-bit music to most Nintendo game soundtracks and don't hear it. I can kind of see on some songs it may be harsh for some people but  honestly, when I first got my HD820, the treble on those were more piercing than my HD800.
> ...



It really depends what amp/dac you have and how treble sensitive you are. Some people the peak bothers, some people it doesn't.

The advantage of the peak is it makes the headphone soundstage seem even larger than the HD800S. The disadvantage is for some people it is indeed fatiguing especially at high volumes.


----------



## Nooborghini

ruinedx said:


> It really depends what amp/dac you have and how treble sensitive you are. Some people the peak bothers, some people it doesn't.
> 
> The advantage of the peak is it makes the headphone soundstage seem even larger than the HD800S. The disadvantage is for some people it is indeed fatiguing especially at high volumes.



I guess that I am very lucky, I'm still baffled how I cringed at some songs cause of the treble spike in the HD820 vs these HD800. I think it may be the reflecting resonance from the closed back I didn't like at the start.

I am used to the closed back sound and lack of a better description the "reflective" sound I get and I really appreciate both of these headphones.


----------



## ruinedx

Nooborghini said:


> I guess that I am very lucky, I'm still baffled how I cringed at some songs cause of the treble spike in the HD820 vs these HD800. I think it may be the reflecting resonance from the closed back I didn't like at the start.
> 
> I am used to the closed back sound and lack of a better description the "reflective" sound I get and I really appreciate both of these headphones.


The odd part is the hd820 has the loweat treble response of any of the hd800 series.


----------



## Nooborghini

ruinedx said:


> The odd part is the hd820 has the loweat treble response of any of the hd800 series.



This is why I am extremely confused


----------



## ruinedx

Nooborghini said:


> This is why I am extremely confused


Well the ear/brain hears open backs differently than closed backs. There is obviously more sound pressure with a closed back. So perhaps your ear is reacting to this increased sound pressure in terms of treble


----------



## johnjen

Um, perhaps it's just a syntax discrepancy, but "the ear/brain hears open backs differently than closed backs" is incorrect.
The the ear/brain hears open backs in the same way as closed backs, but the acoustic pressure presented will be different, which is true for every HP.

And as for "There is obviously more sound pressure with a closed back" again I would disagree since a driver firing into a cavity that is 'closed' will have a 'harder' time delivering an acoustic pressure wave than an open cavity.
This can be compared to a sealed speaker vs a ported speaker and the relative efficiency differences between them.

Just my 2¢

JJ


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Nooborghini said:


> I just received my HD800. I'm not 100% sure where people are getting this 6khz peak fatigue from. I don't even think I wanna SDR mod this. The bass is clean and fast.
> I originally got the HD820 because my original purchase of HD800s took forever to get to me and they just ended up providing me the HD820 instead.
> 
> After 4+ months of reading about the HD800 having a peak and fatiguing, I don't really see where people get how it is OVERWHELMINGLY terrible to the point where don't like it. I even tested with really high pitch 8-bit music to most Nintendo game soundtracks and don't hear it. I can kind of see on some songs it may be harsh for some people but  honestly, when I first got my HD820, the treble on those were more piercing than my HD800.
> ...



It is not overwhelmingly terrible or it would never have developed such a fanbase and critical acclaim. It is just more resolving and sometimes very clinical compared to more generally musical headphones. And I think the balance and smoothness (well, aside from the treble issue) throws some people off. I have read many complaints that the 800s don't have bass. That's just nuts. Listen to some cello or stand-up bass on a pair of 800s and it sounds exactly like it should. 

There is a treble spike but depending on your source material and ears it may or may not bother you. I can happily listen to most music I would choose to listen to on 800s (namely classical orchestral, big band jazz, some acoustic) without EQ just fine. On the other hand Joni Mitchell out of my 800s is like icicles through my brain without reducing the 6-10 KHz area somewhat.

If you have a good OTL amp or other appropriate tube amp it will likely sound a lot better than it does on your SMSL gear. Not because the treble is affected, but that the kind of power tube amps provide drives 300 ohm Sennheisers much better than usual.


----------



## ruinedx (Oct 1, 2020)

johnjen said:


> Um, perhaps it's just a syntax discrepancy, but "the ear/brain hears open backs differently than closed backs" is incorrect.
> The the ear/brain hears open backs in the same way as closed backs, but the acoustic pressure presented will be different, which is true for every HP.
> 
> And as for "There is obviously more sound pressure with a closed back" again I would disagree since a driver firing into a cavity that is 'closed' will have a 'harder' time delivering an acoustic pressure wave than an open cavity.
> ...



Regardless how hard the driver needs to work, air being moved in a sealed/partially sealed cavity in which your eardrum is a part of should create more pressure on your eardrum than air being moved in a cavity that is not sealed - as in the unsealed cavity the sound pressure has better means to escape.  And yeah your first point is just semantics.


----------



## johnjen

Um, a sealed cavity acts like an air pressure resistor, which is why sealed cavities are less efficient, but more importantly it will reduce the peak acoustic pressure 'non-linearly', as the pressure rises, and unevenly between a positive vs negative pressure wave, at that.
And it affects the low freq's more so than higher freq's due to the excursion differences.

And while you can crank up the volume to overcome the drop in efficiency, it means greater excursion is applied, and so the greater the deformation of the peak of the waveform will be.

And while the entire cavity will build pressure as you describe, it's the dynamic character of the pressure wave not the absolute pressure that gives us the musical information (waveform shape which includes the waveform peak etc, along with all of it's harmonics which also have their own peaks).

Just a few more thoughts to ponder…

JJ


----------



## bagwell359 (Oct 5, 2020)

Back to the mundane.  I'm running down a used one - you know driven by an old lady to a house of worship once a week.  Also some sort of aftermarket cable, but not bleeding edge technology/cost.  What's the range for that sort of an HD-800?

Thanks

EDIT: The one I was watching went for $820ish.  Impressive given the possible years on it.  How  come everyone says they were "seldom used".  It's essentially a meaningless phrase.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

bagwell359 said:


> Back to the mundane.  I'm running down a used one - you know driven by an old lady to a house of worship once a week.  Also some sort of aftermarket cable, but not bleeding edge technology/cost.  What's the range for that sort of an HD-800?
> 
> Thanks


I don't know but I would recommend customcans for the cable. I read that you did buy at least one from them in the past.


----------



## bagwell359

gimmeheadroom said:


> I don't know but I would recommend customcans for the cable. I read that you did buy at least one from them in the past.



I have two of them so far, fine wires for cheap.


----------



## Nooborghini

What would you guys recommend to grab a tube amp for the HD800? 
I currently have the Little Dot Mk 2 w/ Mullard CV4010.

Was thinking either WA22 or Little Dot MK VIII SE.
Any other recommendations? 

I enjoy them more on my SMSL SP200 more than my LD MK2 currently


----------



## gimmeheadroom

The WA2 would be better for the Sennheiser 800 than the WA22. What other headphones do you have?

If you like the 800s with a THX amp then maybe consider the Benchmark HPA-4?


----------



## S Crowther

gimmeheadroom said:


> The WA2 would be better for the Sennheiser 800 than the WA22. What other headphones do you have?
> 
> If you like the 800s with a THX amp then maybe consider the Benchmark HPA-4?





gimmeheadroom said:


> The WA2 would be better for the Sennheiser 800 than the WA22. What other headphones do you have?
> 
> If you like the 800s with a THX amp then maybe consider the Benchmark HPA-4?





Nooborghini said:


> What would you guys recommend to grab a tube amp for the HD800?
> I currently have the Little Dot Mk 2 w/ Mullard CV4010.
> 
> Was thinking either WA22 or Little Dot MK VIII SE.
> ...


I am happy with the Xduoo TA-20 hybrid and RCA Black Plates 1950 tubes with  the HD800s.


----------



## Nooborghini

gimmeheadroom said:


> The WA2 would be better for the Sennheiser 800 than the WA22. What other headphones do you have?
> 
> If you like the 800s with a THX amp then maybe consider the Benchmark HPA-4?



I currently only have the HD820 and the HD6XX that I often drive.
I wanted a balanced Tube amp, what would make the WA2 more special over the 22?

Thank you for your recommendation, I will look into that one as well.



S Crowther said:


> I am happy with the Xduoo TA-20 hybrid and RCA Black Plates 1950 tubes with  the HD800s.



Thank you for your recommendation, I will look into that one as well.
How does it sound?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Nooborghini said:


> I currently only have the HD820 and the HD6XX that I often drive.
> I wanted a balanced Tube amp, what would make the WA2 more special over the 22?
> 
> Thank you for your recommendation, I will look into that one as well.
> ...



The WA2 is a better impedance match for 300 ohm Sennheisers. If you ask Woo they will tell you the WA2 is better than the WA22 for those cans.


----------



## Nooborghini

gimmeheadroom said:


> The WA2 is a better impedance match for 300 ohm Sennheisers. If you ask Woo they will tell you the WA2 is better than the WA22 for those cans.



Ahhh okay thank you very much for that clarification.
Have you heard any good things about the Little dot Mk8? 
I was hoping to have a balanced tube amp as I have almost everything balanced in the first place


----------



## S Crowther (Oct 6, 2020)

See my reply below


----------



## S Crowther (Oct 6, 2020)

You ask how the Xduoo TA-20 sounds. 
 In my system using the stock balanced cable and fed  from Terminator DAC it sounds naturally warm with a fuller bass while maintaining the clarity and expansion of the treble. 
But everyone hears differently, sound is highly subjective as everyone’s brain interprets the sound waves coming into the ears a little differently and we never “hear” the sounds only the brain’s interpretation of them.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Nooborghini said:


> Ahhh okay thank you very much for that clarification.
> Have you heard any good things about the Little dot Mk8?
> I was hoping to have a balanced tube amp as I have almost everything balanced in the first place


No, I'm sorry I don't know anything about Little Dot. I'm sure somebody here does. You can ask in the fullsize amps section. And I think there is also a separate thread here for amps for HD 800.


----------



## grooveriders

Nooborghini said:


> What would you guys recommend to grab a tube amp for the HD800?
> I currently have the Little Dot Mk 2 w/ Mullard CV4010.
> 
> Was thinking either WA22 or Little Dot MK VIII SE.
> ...


I have tried the WA33 with my hd800 and it sounded amazing. Also got a chance to try it out with other cans (lcd3 and arya)  but the hd800 was the best pairing for me. Not sure how the WA22 is but if its on the same track with the WA33 then I would highly recommend it. No experience with Little dot so cant really compare the two.


----------



## thecrow

Nooborghini said:


> What would you guys recommend to grab a tube amp for the HD800?
> I currently have the Little Dot Mk 2 w/ Mullard CV4010.
> 
> Was thinking either WA22 or Little Dot MK VIII SE.
> ...


I have owned the wa2 and hd800 probably for about 5 years. 
It’s a great combo. The wa2 is very silky smooth with the hd800 and surprisingly (to me) has a great level of detail coming through 

but it is very limited re what you can pair it with. it is best with high impedance headphones
some lower impedance hps work with it and some don’t at all (bloomy bottom end)- that’s its biggest limitation 

Vs the wa22 if you want one of these woo amps specifically for the hd800 then the wa2 is the best option but if you want a more versatile amp then the wa22 comes to the party and is still good with the hd800

have a look at these links
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-beauty-and-the-beast-woo-wa2-vs-wa22.615810/

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...1059475471/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf
that is an old chart

my 2c


----------



## Nooborghini

Thanks everyone for the insight and knowledge, I will check those products out.



thecrow said:


> I have owned the wa2 and hd800 probably for about 5 years.
> It’s a great combo. The wa2 is very silky smooth with the hd800 and surprisingly (to me) has a great level of detail coming through
> 
> but it is very limited re what you can pair it with. it is best with high impedance headphones
> ...



Definitely will have a read over the weekend here. Thank you very much!


----------



## jenkinsontherun (Oct 10, 2020)

Sorry if this is discussed before, and I am sure it has.  However, many threads are 2-3 years old.

What I am looking for is a *budget amp/dac combo* that works well with the hd800.  This of course includes taming the 6k peak a bit.  Looking to spend around 300USD.

Also, can someone tell me if I can do a *DIY SDR mod*?  It would be awesome if I could buy some comply tips, for example, and install, rather than buy from Europe in these times.

Thanks!!


----------



## JamieMcC

jenkinsontherun said:


> Sorry if this is discussed before, and I am sure it has.  However, many threads are 2-3 years old.
> 
> What I am looking for is a *budget amp/dac combo* that works well with the hd800.  This of course includes taming the 6k peak a bit.  Looking to spend around 300USD.
> 
> ...



As a DAC amp combo something like the Chord Mojo should be high on your list.


----------



## bagwell359

jenkinsontherun said:


> Sorry if this is discussed before, and I am sure it has.  However, many threads are 2-3 years old.
> 
> What I am looking for is a *budget amp/dac combo* that works well with the hd800.  This of course includes taming the 6k peak a bit.  Looking to spend around 300USD.
> 
> ...



Probably used at that price.  The least expensive new with excellent sonics I can think of is the Jot w/ multibit for $599.  If you do that, get a balanced cable since the Jot puts out a good deal more into balanced than SE.


----------



## thecrow

jenkinsontherun said:


> Sorry if this is discussed before, and I am sure it has.  However, many threads are 2-3 years old.
> 
> What I am looking for is a *budget amp/dac combo* that works well with the hd800.  This of course includes taming the 6k peak a bit.  Looking to spend around 300USD.
> 
> ...


 Innerfidelity had info re sdr mod and the previous anax mod (which worked great for me). The anax mod had some felt placed inside ear cup.

tyl on inner fidelity even had a template to use.

however since innerfidelity is now dead I don’t know if you can go straight to the source. 
maybe see if his (innerfidelity) youtube videos might help or look at this and other forums.

re dac/amp you have a very limited budget.

however i started with a simple odac and o2 setup and enjoyed the hd800 (it was fine) and as time went on i upgraded my gear and the hd800 got even better. nothing wrong with building up your system overtime around the hd800(s)

sorry I can’t help with any suggestions except to say do some homework and look for some second hand gear where you will get more bang for your buck

all the best


----------



## Nooborghini

I pulled the trigger on the LD MK 8. Apos has it on sale and gonna receive it soon. Excited to try it with my HD800 and HD820


----------



## networkn

I can't see a different thread related specifically to the HD800S so hopefully, my question around this headphone here will be OK. 
I recently purchased the Drop Carbon X balanced Amp for my HD800S. I have it paired with the original BiFrost Dac and am using the included cables with the headphone for balanced. I am finding the setup a bit harsh or sibilant, especially female voices. Is this normal for this combination and should I look to move to another DAC/Amp?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

800S I don't know, but the 800 is not a good choice with female vocals in many cases. Only EQ can fix it.


----------



## networkn

Any tips on the EQ I could use? I mostly use Spotify, but I do have some lossless stuff in FooBar.


----------



## Shahrose

Different stroke for different folks. I find the HD800 to be exemplary with female vocals. Maybe system-dependent.


----------



## Nooborghini

networkn said:


> Any tips on the EQ I could use? I mostly use Spotify, but I do have some lossless stuff in FooBar.



the sibilance is subjective on the person but if you want to look into a system where u turn on immediately a hybrid tube system such as monoprice platinum or tubes can help. 
I do find that spotify/youtube quality songs are very sibilant regardless of amp/dac I use.


----------



## johnjen

My experience with the 800 (not the 800S) is it will deliver the SQ of the upstream gear, with precision.

If it's harsh it's because the signal being fed it, has that quality to it.
Granted the 800/800S may 'add' to that harshness, but it has to be in the signal in the 1st place in order to be 'added' to.

JJ


----------



## descloud

networkn said:


> Any tips on the EQ I could use? I mostly use Spotify, but I do have some lossless stuff in FooBar.


Equalizer APO if you're using Windows is the best Parametric EQ afaik.  It might be helpful to use the FR points from autoeq of the HD800 here and play around the values to your liking.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

networkn said:


> Any tips on the EQ I could use? I mostly use Spotify, but I do have some lossless stuff in FooBar.


I lower the area between 6 and 10 KHz with a -3 dB shelf (maybe a bit more depending on what I'm listening to) and it's enough to tame Joni Mitchell. Other than some female vocals I don't EQ my 800s (plural, not S) at all


----------



## cscales

WadaHiFi said:


> I know about 10 hd800 owner irl half of them have the cardas clear or one of the moon audio cables so im just kinda curious.


Most of my time with my hd800 has been Tidal HiFi>Mojo/Hugo>silver dragon>hd800SDR because historically I prefer a portable set up. All along I've had a nice tube amp available but only lately have I started to use it as part of a bedroom setup: Tidal>Hugo>Cayin Ha1a+Expensive Old Mullards>Silver Dragon>hd800SDR. 

I never did use my stock cable much and only lately, after owning the hd800 for 5 years, have I become interested in testing the difference between my 2 cables.

All the changes I've been making lately are to max out my hd800 experience. I've learned 2 things:

First, the Moon cable does improve the experience. It's worth the improvement at the used price I payed but I'm not sure I would pay retail because...

...adding the tube amp made a bigger difference. This is the second thing I learned. If I had to start over with building a system around the hd800 I would concentrate on the amp/dac/tubes part first. 

The stock cable sounds fine to me. Even though I enjoy what the dragon adds, when I put it away for awhile my ears "forget" and become accustomed to the stock cable.

**Something I read recently about cables: the higher the quality of the gear, the more discernable the difference between cables. I agree.

The difference between stock and silver dragon is greater when Hugo is part of the chain. When I use ONLY the Cayin, the difference is less noticeable.

As for what exactly is different between cables, I couldn't tell you precisely. I decided early on in my headphone journey that I was simply going to enjoy the music rather than analyze. Therefore, all I can say, using songs I know well as a reference, is that I "enjoy" 😉 the songs more with the silver dragon. Again, I'm undecided if the added enjoyment is worth the retail price. 5 years ago I paid $150 used. Retail today is $400. Ouch. I think I would rather hunt some nice tubes, instead.

BTW, I ended up learning all of the above because I wanted a Focal Utopia. After hearing the Utopia, it became a bit of a unicorn for me. Nice to dream about but not very realistic. Instead I turned to maxing out my hd800 setup. I have no regrets. The hd800 is truly endgame worthy for me because it scales up so nicely and in such a noticeable way as I add to or alter the chain. 

I'm happy with what I've got and my only question is: do I like the silver dragon because it's a higher quality cable or because I like the silver cable vs the stock copper? Hmmm.....


----------



## networkn

I have a number of Amp's I think I'll go back and compare a couple back to back with this new one. I don't recall the same sibilence with the others but perhaps I'm being romantic. Amps I have include Crack Amp with Speedball and o2 amp.


----------



## johnjen

The crack amp and 800's are usually a good pairing.

JJ


----------



## Shahrose

cscales said:


> Most of my time with my hd800 has been Tidal HiFi>Mojo/Hugo>silver dragon>hd800SDR because historically I prefer a portable set up. All along I've had a nice tube amp available but only lately have I started to use it as part of a bedroom setup: Tidal>Hugo>Cayin Ha1a+Expensive Old Mullards>Silver Dragon>hd800SDR.
> 
> I never did use my stock cable much and only lately, after owning the hd800 for 5 years, have I become interested in testing the difference between my 2 cables.
> 
> ...



Good insight, I agree. I have the the Silver Dragon for the HD800s. It made the imaging sharper, clearer and more upfront (a good thing considering the stock HD800 can sound distant/uninvolving at times). The bass tightened up and impact became noticeably more prominent. Other than that, I'd say there was a slight smoothening of the peaky treble but without actually a reduction in treble quantity. I've often noticed this effect with good silver cables (owned many). 

Overall, in my setup, the original HD800 with a SD cable is not brow-beaten by any of my other cans. In certain areas, the HD800 is better. Amazing value in the high-end world.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I'm listening to my 800s tonight. Haven't heard them for a while and really enjoying them!


----------



## twiceboss (Nov 6, 2020)

I want to share an almost accurate warmth DF tuning for HD800 P.equalizer, it works best so far with my cheap ES100 as it is meatier but airy at the same time. 

Here is the setup:
*Hz/Gain/Q*
1. 35/3.5/0.71 Low Shelf
2. 220/1/0.6 Peak
3. 1150/-0.5/3 Peak
4. 1800/3/1.4 Peak
5. 2950/-3/3 Peak
6. 3500/1.7/3 Peak
7. 5750/-8.9/3.5 Peak
8. 7930/-6.4/7 Peak
9. 11000/-4/5 Peak
10. 13000/-3/0.71 High shelf

Let me know what's your take on this. Crank that volume and hear those details with superb imaging and soundstage without any peak.


----------



## descloud

twiceboss said:


> I want to share an almost accurate warmth DF tuning for HD800 P.equalizer, it works best so far with my cheap ES100 as it is meatier but airy at the same time.
> 
> Here is the setup:
> *Hz/Gain/Q*
> ...


On a personal note, I find this too warm on the HD800  Probably good for those looking for this particular type of tonality.


----------



## twiceboss

descloud said:


> On a personal note, I find this too warm on the HD800  Probably good for those looking for this particular type of tonality.


Yes, this is warmth DF. Just reduce the gain on number 2 to thin the note.


----------



## descloud

twiceboss said:


> Yes, this is warmth DF. Just reduce the gain on number 2 to thin the note.


Actually the huge negative gains at number 8 and 9 are the factors to my ears that make it too dark for my ears


----------



## GraveNoX (Nov 21, 2020)

I prefer the HD800 stock sound without EQ but 1 month ago I discovered a new way to apply EQ for people who want EQ:
I install Equalizer APO, I go to install folder and create desktop shortcuts for config folder, for Editor.exe, for config.txt, for Configurator.exe
On desktop I create a new file called config2.txt where I put all the entries as a backup if I install audio/video drivers in the future, the config.txt might be reset and you need to copy-paste from config2.txt into config.txt.
On desktop I create a folder Graphic_EQ for backup of all txt files.
I go to https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results and find my headphone, then I choose Graphic EQ, I create a txt file on desktop and copy-paste the very long row of numbers (it's 127 steps of EQ). Then rename the file to HD800_Oratory_Sample1.txt
Into config.txt I write # Include: HD800_Oratory_Sample1.txt and then put HD800_Oratory_Sample1.txt into config and Graphic_EQ folders.
I open Editor.exe and on down left corner I set resolution to maximum of 8388608.
I click on an EQ row and click on black power button to activate the EQ.
When using multiple rows, make sure to activate 2 EQ lines and then deactivate the previous one. If you deactivate 1 EQ, the preamp will be back to 0 db so it may become too loud when switching EQs around.
You can close Editor.exe at any time, you can modify .txt files without Editor.exe, the changes will be loaded instantly after saving .txt file. Actually you don't need Editor.exe anymore to enable/disable filters, just use config.txt and then save. Remove # in front of a line to enable that specific .txt file.

The sound won't become rolled off like using 10 band EQ and fatigue won't be an issue anymore. Also the sound will be more detailed because you can listen louder.

It made wonders on my L700 and on DT1990.


----------



## rmx36

Anyone ever find out how to touch up the paint on the HD800? I have some small scratches on them and I know that someone discovered how to fix this a while back


----------



## gLer

rmx36 said:


> Anyone ever find out how to touch up the paint on the HD800? I have some small scratches on them and I know that someone discovered how to fix this a while back


You can take it apart and respray it. There's a good video on YouTube (search 'turn your HD800 into an HD800s'). Personally I just ordered replacement plastic parts from Sennheiser and had them refit them for me. Wasn't exorbitant and my HD800 look like new.


----------



## Thenewguy007

gLer said:


> You can take it apart and respray it. There's a good video on YouTube (search 'turn your HD800 into an HD800s'). Personally I just ordered replacement plastic parts from Sennheiser and had them refit them for me. Wasn't exorbitant and my HD800 look like new.



Do they even still sell parts for the HD800?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Thenewguy007 said:


> Do they even still sell parts for the HD800?


The HD 800S is pretty much identical so most of the parts should be available even if they had no 800 parts left, which seems unlikely.


----------



## Thenewguy007

gimmeheadroom said:


> The HD 800S is pretty much identical so most of the parts should be available even if they had no 800 parts left, which seems unlikely.



https://sennprospares.co.uk/pro-audio-headphones/sennheiser-hd800-spare-parts

This is the only place I found that has replacement part & looks like they don't sell them anymore.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

If you're in the UK, ask @jfunk at Custom Cans, and also contact the Sennheiser distributor.


----------



## roskodan (Jan 13, 2021)

I'm looking for some seller (EU only) that may still have some original silver HD800 in stock (new, demo, second hand, doesn't matter), any idea?


----------



## Fegefeuer

*hifimarket esser e.k.*
Gauchstraße 17
79098 Freiburg
Tel. (0761) 2 22 02
*info@hifimarket.de* 

They go a new one in stock.


----------



## rmx36

roskodan said:


> I'm looking for some seller that may still have some original silver HD800 in stock (new, demo, second hand, doesn't matter), any idea?


I have a pair for sale. Message me if interested


----------



## roskodan

Fegefeuer said:


> *hifimarket esser e.k.*
> Gauchstraße 17
> 79098 Freiburg
> Tel. (0761) 2 22 02
> ...


Thanks. Tried dealers all over the EU with no luck, this was a pleasant surprise to find one that still had the original HD800 up for grab. Cheers.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

roskodan said:


> Thanks. Tried dealers all over the EU with no luck, this was a pleasant surprise to find one that still had the original HD800 up for grab. Cheers.


He's very good at that!


----------



## tumpux

spurxiii said:


> How good are these with movie sound tracks. Listening to the Braveheart and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon sound track I got a while back and I've never heard it sounding better. I've got goosebumps



I should listen to these albums. Are they still as good as six years ago.. 😀😀


----------



## The Third (Jan 17, 2021)

For those who tried/owned both hd800 and hd800s, if the cleanest, biggest soundstage with most analytical sound is important then which one is better to get, and why?


----------



## Bruc3 (Jan 17, 2021)

Didn't know about this thread, I am recent HD800S owner and loving it so far!!! A very detailed headphone, with great clarity, imaging/soundstage while at the same time it is very musical to me.

EDIT: Oops just realised this is for the original HD800, oh well.


----------



## joseph69

The Third said:


> For those who tried/owned both hd800 and hd800s, if the cleanest, biggest soundstage with most analytical sound is important than which one is better to get?


HD800
Their soundstage would be on the same level.


----------



## The Third

joseph69 said:


> HD800
> Their soundstage would be on the same level.


Would you have the time to explain me why ?


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jan 17, 2021)

You do realize it is pretty impossible get a new pair of HD 800s, right? If you're ok with used they come up from time to time here but the three I saw in the last few weeks were all in America.

The 1st and S model headphones are basically identical except for some tuning to remove the treble peak. Tyll has said it added distortion to the bass but makes the headphones more listenable without EQ. I don't think soundstage or much of anything else could be affected. Same drivers, same housings, etc. Only the plastic baffle is different AFAIK.


----------



## joseph69 (Jan 17, 2021)

The Third said:


> Would you have the time to explain me why ?


Because, as you asked, the 800 has more clarity which too me makes it sound "cleaner" and more "analytical".
I owned the 800S and found it to be less lively and have less impact (a bit boring for me, but still very nice sounding) than the 800 which I currently own. I was lucky enough to find a 'like new' pair of 800's which were used once on eBay +/-6 months ago that were 100% as described. I do think there is an 800 on the F/S thread somewhere, maybe even a few.

PS: I have heard the 800 awhile back and was impressed with it but just never got around to purchasing one. When I finally did, they were no longer in production which is why I bought the 800S new, sold it, and bought the 800 used.


----------



## robo24

The Third said:


> For those who tried/owned both hd800 and hd800s, if the cleanest, biggest soundstage with most analytical sound is important then which one is better to get, and why?


In between is the HD 800 with the SDR mod. Best of both worlds. I bought an unmodded and modded to compare. The SDR helps with the treble spike and was more enjoyable to my ears without impacting soundstage or much else that I could hear. I really wanted to have an original HD 800, but felt the SDR compromise was best for me.


----------



## roskodan (Jan 18, 2021)

Well, here is my fourth pair of HD800 since I joined Head-Fi. Being the latest to earn the keepers status, joining the HD650, Focal Clear, AH-D2000 and Shure SE530.

Seems I got on the last train to own a HD800, I wasn't so sure I could find a new one anymore, big shout out to hifi-market.de for the excellent service.

Previously owned s/n 13xxx, 23xxx, 30xxx, and now 50xxx. Also frequently auditioned a local s/n 06xxx. Been definitely hearing differences between them over the years.




Still looking to add a planar and a hi-end closed back, the Aeons came close, but I just couldn't get over the wired cup/earpad shape (perhaps I'll just go back to the LCD2). The hunt continues. Oh, and maybe venture into electrostats one day.


----------



## Fegefeuer

HE-6, aaaaaall the way. Or HE-6SE.


----------



## roskodan

The Third said:


> For those who tried/owned both hd800 and hd800s, if the cleanest, biggest soundstage with most analytical sound is important then which one is better to get, and why?


InnerFidelity had quite a handful of reviews/videos about em siblings. 

The HD800S review acts like a comparison between the two.


----------



## Yviena

Just curious but how accurate is the sennheiser frequency response certificate, according to mine the 6khz treble spike is only around 3.5-4db.


----------



## roskodan

It's accurate for their target curve (which only they know how to read). Strangely enough, that's actually about right in terms of how much it shoots over the popular Harman target curve. So if one was to EQ that region to target the Harman curve, it would be -3dB for the HD800S, and something more than that (-4 ~ -6dB?) for the HD800.


----------



## johnjen

The 'stock' senn acoustical graphs use a means of 'averaging' the acoustical power over a fixed frequency range (≈100Hz to 12.5KHz) in 22 'bands' called a "Loudness diffuse field" and is measured in dBspl.

This is an old technique often used to 'hide' acoustic spikes and dips by averaging the acoustical 'power' over a range of frequencies instead of what a FFT would show with much finer resolution.
It does indicate an averaged acoustical power distribution but what we normally want to see is frequency response and not averaged power.

There are many reasons why they use this format instead of what an FFT would show, not the least of which are 'marketing considerations'.

JJ


----------



## cddc

johnjen said:


> The 'stock' senn acoustical graphs use a means of 'averaging' the acoustical power over a fixed frequency range (≈100Hz to 12.5KHz) in 22 'bands' called a "Loudness diffuse field" and is measured in dBspl.
> 
> This is an old technique often used to 'hide' acoustic spikes and dips by averaging the acoustical 'power' over a range of frequencies instead of what a FFT would show with much finer resolution.
> It does indicate an averaged acoustical power distribution but what we normally want to see is frequency response and not averaged power.
> ...




Agree, it's better to supply a full FR chart instead of an averaged one.


----------



## roskodan (Jan 20, 2021)

Actually looks like they provide the "target curve", in the manual, it's the "reference HD800/HD800S" response, the mother of all production units. 

While the individual graph is how your HD800/S measures. Attached is mine.





And with a little help from my friends, EQ APO and PEACE, I'm reaching new hights in music reproduction.🀄


----------



## Lord Raven (Feb 5, 2021)

I would like to know how to tame the 6kHz peak?  I have installed both applications and now running on my windows10 PC

Edit: Type of filter, gain, etc The app is dope!!!!



roskodan said:


> Actually looks like they provide the "target curve", in the manual, it's the "reference HD800/HD800S" response, the mother of all production units.
> 
> While the individual graph is how your HD800/S measures. Attached is mine.


----------



## roskodan (Feb 5, 2021)

Lord Raven said:


> I would like to know how to tame the 6kHz peak?  I have installed both applications and now running on my windows10 PC
> 
> Edit: Type of filter, gain, etc The app is dope!!!!


Basically you need to figure out what Parametric EQ profile (target frequency, Q factor, gain dB) fits you better (and of course you can adjust to preference, make your own). There are various profiles collected here (made from measurements from various sites):

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results

For example, for InnerFidelity measurements, go, AutoEq/*results*/innerfidelity/innerfidelity_harman_over-ear_2018/Sennheiser HD 800/Sennheiser HD 800 *ParametricEQ*.txt

Will get you this:

*Preamp*: -4.6 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 23 Hz Gain 4.3 dB Q 1.13
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 54 Hz Gain 2.6 dB Q 2.80
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 1785 Hz Gain 3.6 dB Q 1.79
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 3320 Hz Gain 2.9 dB Q 1.23
Filter 5: ON PK *Fc* 5874 Hz *Gain* -8.4 dB *Q* 2.90
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 59 Hz Gain 0.7 dB Q 0.89
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 201 Hz Gain -2.3 dB Q 0.68
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 1336 Hz Gain 0.8 dB Q 5.55
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 11213 Hz Gain 2.3 dB Q 1.60
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 19774 Hz Gain -7.2 dB Q 0.50

It only works if you don't use special sound interfaces like WASAPI, ASIO, Kernel Streaming and such. Basically only works for DS (direct sound), which is the default sound interface in Windows.

For just the 6kHz peak, you would select the *PK* filter (Peakfilter), *Fc* (frequency) to 5874, *Gain* -8.4 (software might round to -8.5), *Q* (quality factor) of 2.90.

As for *Preamp* (only needed when increasing Gain, to avoid software clipping) you can either ignore it and check "Prevent clipping" box (basically auto preamp), or set it manually. Or both.

PM-ed you links with tutorial and other resources (from that other site  ).


----------



## Lord Raven

Legend, thank you so much  Let me try this tonight. I have a Chord Mojo playing Spotify into a tube amp. However, I do use DSD and other higher resolution formats played with Jriver. Most of my listening now is Spotify and wanted to test the EQ to kill the edge off. Sennheiser is the highest I'd ever go, my end game. 



roskodan said:


> Basically...


----------



## roskodan

Well, the 6kHz peak is the most popular feature, but that doesn't mean it's what one hears as the problem. To my ears the region above it, 8-10kHz + is what can be fatiguing. But in the end I only EQ the bass, and that makes everything ok for me, 'cos I'm able to listen at lower volumes so it kind of masks the peaks in the treble, I guess.


----------



## r343

This is only headphone i regret selling, don't really have interest in S version but the OG with sdr mod. Have not heard so clear and airy vocals in other headphones.


----------



## roskodan

True that. Other headphones come to mind in that regard too, k701, the original Aeon Flow Closed, Focal Clear, but the hd800 is the queen. 💘


----------



## ishmeister

Got new pads for my HD800 but one pad is refusing to clip fully into the cup. Anyone had this issue before? It leaves a gap between the pad and the rim of the cup.I tried a fair bit of force but it doesn't work.


----------



## roskodan




----------



## ishmeister

roskodan said:


>



Yeah I tried that, it doesn't work. One pad just won't clip in the bottom edge no matter how firmly I press.


----------



## ishmeister

ishmeister said:


> Yeah I tried that, it doesn't work. One pad just won't clip in the bottom edge no matter how firmly I press.


Succeeded on the 3rd attempt. It seems that if it won't clip the best approach it to remove and start again. Snapping in the corners of the D first then going round the front. Watching to make sure it does pop out of one of the corners.


----------



## Thenewguy007

ishmeister said:


> Yeah I tried that, it doesn't work. One pad just won't clip in the bottom edge no matter how firmly I press.



That video is wrong, this is the correct way.



This applies pressure on all sides, which you need to get them on.


----------



## johnjen

I have found that rotating the pad a bit is the 'magic' for stubborn problem areas.

JJ


----------



## ishmeister

Thenewguy007 said:


> That video is wrong, this is the correct way.
> 
> 
> This applies pressure on all sides, which you need to get them on.


Yes exactly - get the corners in then the front. But I didn't think of using a table, great idea. Thanks for sharing this.


----------



## johnjen (Feb 11, 2021)

roskodan said:


>





ishmeister said:


> Yeah I tried that, it doesn't work. One pad just won't clip in the bottom edge no matter how firmly I press.


I didn't like his method for removing the pads.
Sticking my fingers between the driver and the pad just doesn't sit well with me.
I just use my thumb nail between the pad and the ear cup assembly, in several places, until the pad pops off.

I do use his method for installing new pads.
And when the pads are brand new, it does take a bit of force to make the plastic conform to it's new shape on the ridges and mating surface, and alignment is important as well.
And Yes only press the pads to their corresponding ring, with the mating surface together, (DO NOT press on the fine metal basket, nor the driver).

IOW if the new pads 'fight you', stop and shift the pads just a bit one way or the other, until one spot (where the ridges/depressions are) does seat, then work around from there.
And it may take a few position changes until it all 'clicks into place' especially when new pads are being fitted the 1st time.

I like this method better than the table top method because it allows for proper alignment of the pads to the ear cup assembly BEFORE trying to force it all into place.

JJ


----------



## Ken G (Feb 16, 2021)

Looks like some variation of the HD800 will be part of a new collaboration with Drop.com on Thursday.
The email teaser said "The soundstage is set" and touted is as their most requested headphone. The front page referred to it as "an end-game open back".

https://drop.com/buy/our-most-requested-headphone-launching-2-18-21/talk?


----------



## robo24

Ken G said:


> Looks like some variation of the HD800 will be part of a new collaboration with Drop.com on Thursday.
> The email teaser said "The soundstage is set" and touted is as their most requested headphone. The front page referred to it as "an end-game open back".
> 
> https://drop.com/buy/our-most-requested-headphone-launching-2-18-21/talk?


Very interesting. That it also say Drop Studio makes it indeed seem like their own version. With the HD800 used being around $800 or less I'd think they'd need to undercut that.


----------



## Ken G

robo24 said:


> Very interesting. That it also say Drop Studio makes it indeed seem like their own version. With the HD800 used being around $800 or less I'd think they'd need to undercut that.


Some aspiring sleuth amped up the brightness and contrast from the photo and it seems to confirm the HD800 potentially original silver variant. 
The most obvious Drop modification would be the SDR.  I bought an open box HD800 (non-S version) a few years ago for a little under $800 right prior to them being discontinued and I don't regret it at all. I would bet that I still use it almost as much as my Focal Utopia. It really is that good and less than $800 would be a steal.


----------



## Senndo

Anyone else see this? Sennheiser are selling their consumer audio business. 

https://www.theverge.com/platform/a...elling-consumer-headphones-soundbars-business


----------



## MacedonianHero

I saw it earlier today. The Axel Grell left, I knew something was up. Sad really as they have been both lead pioneers and innovators in the world of personal audio!


----------



## roskodan

Well, the Senn Bros are getting older, time to cash out and retire I guess.


Ken G said:


> Some aspiring sleuth amped up the brightness and contrast from the photo and it seems to confirm the HD800 potentially original silver variant.
> The most obvious Drop modification would be the SDR.  I bought an open box HD800 (non-S version) a few years ago for a little under $800 right prior to them being discontinued and I don't regret it at all. I would bet that I still use it almost as much as my Focal Utopia. It really is that good and less than $800 would be a steal.


Yup, looks like it.


----------



## Ken G

Senndo said:


> Anyone else see this? Sennheiser are selling their consumer audio business.
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/platform/a...elling-consumer-headphones-soundbars-business


Well that is super depressing!

Just curious, has AKG produced any mid-fi or higher end headphones since Samsung purchased Harman in 2017?


----------



## ishmeister

Ken G said:


> Some aspiring sleuth amped up the brightness and contrast from the photo and it seems to confirm the HD800 potentially original silver variant.
> The most obvious Drop modification would be the SDR.  I bought an open box HD800 (non-S version) a few years ago for a little under $800 right prior to them being discontinued and I don't regret it at all. I would bet that I still use it almost as much as my Focal Utopia. It really is that good and less than $800 would be a steal.


It could just be that they used an original HD800 so as to show more of the outline in the photograph.


----------



## Benny-x

Senndo said:


> Anyone else see this? Sennheiser are selling their consumer audio business.
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/platform/a...elling-consumer-headphones-soundbars-business


That's sad news. It'll probably take a couple years to pan out, but this doesn't sound good for us audio focused folks. 

Hopefully Axel Grell's new consulting business unleashes some projects that were being held back by Sennheiser's financial problems, but then again, the recent MySphere 3.2 is kinda in that realm and isn't a showstopper like the HD800 was... Anyway, fingers crossed Axel gets back involved with personal, high-end audio and something amazing comes out of it.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Seems to me there is a lot of interest in the original HD 800. I think they could sell a couple of pallets full just by bringing back the stock 800.


----------



## roskodan

Let's be real. Sennheiser didn't really come up with anything exciting in the $500+ categories since basically the HD800 and HD650 were released. So, could really go either way, in regard to the consumer business sale.

As per HD800 sales, Drop will offer 3000 HD8XX units in 2021, and we know that nowadays you need to create "hype" to sell.


> Will
> Chief Product Officer
> Feb 18, 2021
> Hey Friends,
> ...


----------



## Ichos

It is live and frequency response graph looks much worse than the original HD800S.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

<REDACTED>


----------



## roskodan

Ichos said:


> It is live and frequency response graph looks much worse than the original HD800S.


Yeah, doesn't show much of an improvement.


----------



## Thenewguy007

roskodan said:


> Let's be real. Sennheiser didn't really come up with anything exciting in the $500+ categories since basically the HD800 and HD650 were released. So, could really go either way, in regard to the consumer business sale.
> 
> As per HD800 sales, Drop will offer 3000 HD8XX units in 2021, and we know that nowadays you need to create "hype" to sell.



Wait, it'll be out this November?


----------



## Ichos

Yes!


----------



## Ichos

roskodan said:


> Yeah, doesn't show much of an improvement.



This looks like the bottleneck before the K2 summit.
A difficult climb for our ears!


----------



## koudairanger

roskodan said:


> Yeah, doesn't show much of an improvement.


The 100hz boost looks good for me, but why they would want to cut 3k so much...


----------



## roskodan

ETA is November 2021...


Thenewguy007 said:


> Wait, it'll *will it* be out this November?


There, fixed that for you, and probably no. 


koudairanger said:


> The 100hz boost looks good for me, but why they would want to cut 3k so much...


Hm, I believe you are looking at the wrong graph, there is no 100Hz boost.


----------



## koudairanger

roskodan said:


> ETA is November 2021...
> 
> There, fixed that for you, and probably no.
> 
> Hm, I believe you are looking at the wrong graph, there is no 100Hz boost.


ok pardon me I mean around 50...
What makes me so uncomfortable about HD800S is about the muddy feel of lacking something below 100hz.
But for this 3k cut... I'll have to wait for a pre owned anyway...


----------



## ecva

Just sharing, I had my HD800 since 2016 and never ever thought once of selling them. I do not like though that the paint on mine was fading due to oxidation probably. So I did some DIY and was able to find a paint color that matches almost exactly like stock. It was a lot of work though but came out very clean. For those curious, paint is Armored Komodo Aluminum. Just make sure you finish in matte


----------



## roskodan

Digging a lot lately the HD800 PEQ preset from AutoEQ oratory1990, with a little extra bass thrown in. Using EQ APO + PEACE.


----------



## Thenewguy007

ecva said:


> Just sharing, I had my HD800 since 2016 and never ever thought once of selling them. I do not like though that the paint on mine was fading due to oxidation probably. So I did some DIY and was able to find a paint color that matches almost exactly like stock. It was a lot of work though but came out very clean. For those curious, paint is Armored Komodo Aluminum. Just make sure you finish in matte



You paint it with a spray can or with a brush?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Thenewguy007 said:


> You paint it with a spray can or with a brush?


I'm guessing a spray gun. Let's here it from the artist


----------



## Ken G

Looks good. Did you use a sticker for the "L" & "R"? I assume you painted over the lettering that reads "High Definition Driver 300 ohms" on the outer ring?


----------



## ecva (Mar 8, 2021)

Thenewguy007 said:


> You paint it with a spray can or with a brush?


Airbrush. The tricky part is trying to preserve the letters in the yokes. I did not paint the ring in the drivers as it didn't have chips as the other parts.  Here's more pics of the steps I did. First pic paint removed then primer, black base coat, aluminum coat, matte finish, and test fit. There is a lot of fine sanding in between coats.  For the letters "L" and "R", the only real struggle is the "R" due to it's curves, but I carefully taped it off then retouched when I finished the aluminum part. Also, the important thing is to let the coats dry properly.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Nice, I did the same with mine.


----------



## wormsdriver (Mar 9, 2021)

I found this video from some years ago when the HD800S came out. Its very interesting and informative... You're welcome!


----------



## koudairanger

ecva said:


> Just sharing, I had my HD800 since 2016 and never ever thought once of selling them. I do not like though that the paint on mine was fading due to oxidation probably. So I did some DIY and was able to find a paint color that matches almost exactly like stock. It was a lot of work though but came out very clean. For those curious, paint is Armored Komodo Aluminum. Just make sure you finish in matte


Do you have a recommendation of how-to videos on safely disassemble them for painting? I'm thinking about painting mine too.


----------



## ecva

koudairanger said:


> Do you have a recommendation of how-to videos on safely disassemble them for painting? I'm thinking about painting mine too.


Here's a very good video on how to disassemble the hd800. I followed this one too when I did mine.


----------



## koudairanger

ecva said:


> Here's a very good video on how to disassemble the hd800. I followed this one too when I did mine.



Thanks!


----------



## EJSorona

I was lucky enough to find a second hand HD800S at almost half the price of what the Sennheiser store at a local online marketplace was asking for.
It was really almost new. Maybe one day I'll get the official Senn amps for them. Sometimes I see one HDVD800 for sale, but it's paired with the original HD800, or the official store sells them brand new with a discount.
I'll much rather get a better standalone DAC as the integrated DACs on the HDVD800 and HDV820 are, from what I've heard, mediocre or just not on par with the amp portion.


----------



## ecva

EJSorona said:


> I was lucky enough to find a second hand HD800S at almost half the price of what the Sennheiser store at a local online marketplace was asking for.
> It was really almost new. Maybe one day I'll get the official Senn amps for them. Sometimes I see one HDVD800 for sale, but it's paired with the original HD800, or the official store sells them brand new with a discount.
> I'll much rather get a better standalone DAC as the integrated DACs on the HDVD800 and HDV820 are, from what I've heard, mediocre or just not on par with the amp portion.


Congratulations! Surely one of the best purchases I ever made is the HD800. Just give it power and it will bring you years of enjoyment.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

EJSorona said:


> I was lucky enough to find a second hand HD800S at almost half the price of what the Sennheiser store at a local online marketplace was asking for.
> It was really almost new. Maybe one day I'll get the official Senn amps for them. Sometimes I see one HDVD800 for sale, but it's paired with the original HD800, or the official store sells them brand new with a discount.
> I'll much rather get a better standalone DAC as the integrated DACs on the HDVD800 and HDV820 are, from what I've heard, mediocre or just not on par with the amp portion.


The 800/S is very clinical and resolving but the amp has a strong influence on sound quality. I can recommend the RME ADI-2 FS DAC, but you'll need an outboard amp to get the most out of your headphones.


----------



## EJSorona

gimmeheadroom said:


> The 800/S is very clinical and resolving but the amp has a strong influence on sound quality. I can recommend the RME ADI-2 FS DAC, but you'll need an outboard amp to get the most out of your headphones.


When I bought it had a Schiit Modi 2U and Magni 2U stack. It sounded pretty clinical alright. I sold the Magni 2 and purchased a tube amp made by a local technician. That amp has 4-pin XLR out. It definitely improved the sound to my ears, specially after replacing the stock pre-amp tubes. 
Now I need to replaced the DAC. I'm between the Schiit Bifrost 2 and the Denafrips Ares II. The ADI-2 FS is not a bad option, but it doesn't have USB input, but the ADI-2 PRO FS does.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

EJSorona said:


> When I bought it had a Schiit Modi 2U and Magni 2U stack. It sounded pretty clinical alright. I sold the Magni 2 and purchased a tube amp made by a local technician. That amp has 4-pin XLR out. It definitely improved the sound to my ears, specially after replacing the stock pre-amp tubes.
> Now I need to replaced the DAC. I'm between the Schiit Bifrost 2 and the Denafrips Ares II. The ADI-2 FS is not a bad option, but it doesn't have USB input, but the ADI-2 PRO FS does.


Tube OTLs are good medicine for Sennheisers.

What do you mean the ADI-2 FS doesn't have USB input?


----------



## Tarttett

EJSorona said:


> When I bought it had a Schiit Modi 2U and Magni 2U stack. It sounded pretty clinical alright. I sold the Magni 2 and purchased a tube amp made by a local technician. That amp has 4-pin XLR out. It definitely improved the sound to my ears, specially after replacing the stock pre-amp tubes.
> Now I need to replaced the DAC. I'm between the Schiit Bifrost 2 and the Denafrips Ares II. The ADI-2 FS is not a bad option, but it doesn't have USB input, but the ADI-2 PRO FS does.


The RME ADI-2 DAC does possess one USB-B input connector.


----------



## roskodan

If using the RME, make sure to try the onboard PEQ, *oratory1990* has 5 band Harman RME presets for both HD800 / HD800S.


----------



## EJSorona

gimmeheadroom said:


> Tube OTLs are good medicine for Sennheisers.
> 
> What do you mean the ADI-2 FS doesn't have USB input?





Tarttett said:


> The RME ADI-2 DAC does possess one USB-B input connector.


Some of the FS models appear to not have a USB input, while the non-FS and the Pro FS do.
Still, I kinda want to have an R2R dac rather than a DS one, not only for my HD800S, but also for my Stax SRM-353X energizer with L700 Mk II earspeakers. 
The Denafrips Ares II has NOS and OS modes, with two filters for the OS mode. It's just a matter of finding the best mode for each setup.
The Bifrost doesn't have different modes, for that reason I would much rather go for its bigger brother, the Gungnir MB, just for the HD800S alone.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

You're making misleading and incorrect statements about the RME DAC.


----------



## ecva

I think he is talking about the RME ADI-2 FS which is an audio interface used in recording, this one does not have a USB. @EJSorona, I think what everyone here is talking about is the RME ADI-2 DAC FS.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

gimmeheadroom said:


> The 800/S is very clinical and resolving but the amp has a strong influence on sound quality. I can recommend the *RME ADI-2 FS DAC*, but you'll need an outboard amp to get the most out of your headphones.





Tarttett said:


> The *RME ADI-2 DAC* does possess one USB-B input connector.





ecva said:


> I think he is talking about the RME ADI-2 FS which is an audio interface used in recording, this one does not have a USB. @EJSorona, I think what everyone here is talking about is the RME ADI-2 DAC FS.


You're right, that's what we said.


----------



## EJSorona

ecva said:


> I think he is talking about the RME ADI-2 FS which is an audio interface used in recording, this one does not have a USB. @EJSorona, I think what everyone here is talking about is the RME ADI-2 DAC FS.


It's doesn't help that they are named similarly. Still, the ADI 2 DAC a bit more expensive, and I'm not looking for a DS DAC right now.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

EJSorona said:


> It's doesn't help that they are named similarly. Still, the ADI 2 DAC a bit more expensive, and I'm not looking for a DS DAC right now.


It is more expensive because it is better than both DACs you mentioned. Schiit doesn't do DSD and their DACs don't do better than 24/192. RME does DSD256 and high rate PCM up to 32/768. It is more adjustable, plays more kinds of music, and is more future proof than either DAC you mentioned, by far.


----------



## roskodan

Hugo TT 2 and 2x 3 pin xlr balanced cable / adapter :3


----------



## EJSorona

gimmeheadroom said:


> It is more expensive because it is better than both DACs you mentioned. Schiit doesn't do DSD and their DACs don't do better than 24/192. RME does DSD256 and high rate PCM up to 32/768. It is more adjustable, plays more kinds of music, and is more future proof than either DAC you mentioned, by far.


You might be right, but still, the ADI-2 has some features I don't really need. Those 3-400 dollar difference is huge for me. The Ares II supports DSD1024.
If the ADI-2 is future proof, then I'll adquire it in the future. Denafrips is more likely to go out of business than RME. It's like, get 'em while you can, whereas you can get the good 'ol reliable ones afterwards.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

EJSorona said:


> You might be right, but still, the ADI-2 has some features I don't really need. Those 3-400 dollar difference is huge for me. The Ares II supports DSD1024.
> If the ADI-2 is future proof, then I'll adquire it in the future. Denafrips is more likely to go out of business than RME. It's like, get 'em while you can, whereas you can get the good 'ol reliable ones afterwards.


There are plenty of R2R DACs. There is no crisis, in fact there are more and more choices all the time. You don't need to panic, just buy what you want.


----------



## EJSorona (Mar 31, 2021)

gimmeheadroom said:


> There are plenty of R2R DACs. There is no crisis, in fact there are more and more choices all the time. You don't need to panic, just buy what you want.


I haven't made up my mind yet. I have to take availability and some risks into account. If I can't find an official dealer in my country, I have to resort to a importing company. I know one that deals with audio and musical equipment, they are pretty reliable but expensive and, even with express shipment, they are slow to deliver they goods. 
I'm still waiting for my Stax energizer that I ordered in late december. They shipped me the earspeakers, but they are literally useless without an energizer.
The only good part that I have to do zero paperwork, they do everything for me.
That being said, RME has an official dealer here according to their website, I contacted them about the ADI-2 DAC FS. If the ask much less than the importing company. I will really consider it.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I understand. I have lived in many places for work. One place was like that, difficult to buy anything at all. Good luck


----------



## EJSorona

gimmeheadroom said:


> I understand. I have lived in many places for work. One place was like that, difficult to buy anything at all. Good luck


Thanks, I definitely appreciate the advice from you guys. I was hell bent on getting the Ares II (Hell, I still want it badly), but the ADI-2 FS seems like a solid option aswell (even if I have to rely on either the onboard EQ or soft-based EQ, to emulate what R2R DACs can do natively). One pro for the ADI-2 is that it has headphone and IEM outs. I not only have own an HD800S and a L700 Mk II earspeakers, but also an HD598, which could benefit from the 1/4" jack from the ADI-2. 
The Ares II, on the other hand, I read that it boast as wider soundstage, very 3D, holographic, kind of soundstage, whereas the ADI-2 is more two-dimensional. 
Not only I need a better DAC for music listening, but potentially for videogames. 
For now I put myself a deadline of 45 to 60 days max from the moment I posted this. Ergo, from mid to late May I have to deside which DAC should I get. I need to be able to order/purchase it without going broke. 
I put my HD800S for sale a couple of times, but no luck, people here are not very willingly to pay that much for a headphone. I think I'll regret selling them badly, unless the Drop HD8XX proves to be a major improvement over the 800S.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

You can't use EQ to make a chipdac sound like an R2R DAC. The RME stands on its own, it is a supremely musical DAC. All the extra knobs are a bonus. You can also set it up normally and never change anything.


----------



## robo24

EJSorona said:


> Thanks, I definitely appreciate the advice from you guys. I was hell bent on getting the Ares II (Hell, I still want it badly), but the ADI-2 FS seems like a solid option aswell (even if I have to rely on either the onboard EQ or soft-based EQ, to emulate what R2R DACs can do natively). One pro for the ADI-2 is that it has headphone and IEM outs. I not only have own an HD800S and a L700 Mk II earspeakers, but also an HD598, which could benefit from the 1/4" jack from the ADI-2.
> The Ares II, on the other hand, I read that it boast as wider soundstage, very 3D, holographic, kind of soundstage, whereas the ADI-2 is more two-dimensional.
> Not only I need a better DAC for music listening, but potentially for videogames.
> For now I put myself a deadline of 45 to 60 days max from the moment I posted this. Ergo, from mid to late May I have to deside which DAC should I get. I need to be able to order/purchase it without going broke.
> I put my HD800S for sale a couple of times, but no luck, people here are not very willingly to pay that much for a headphone. I think I'll regret selling them badly, unless the Drop HD8XX proves to be a major improvement over the 800S.


There's a Soekris 1541 DAC listed now for $1000. I had the 1421 and Ares 1 and there was no contest. Sounds from the edges on the 1421 got mushed into the center and pretty much lost. The 1421 for me was up there in detail with the Chord Hugo 2. Another option to consider anyway.


----------



## vanhalen26

How would a DAP with these specs (DX300) drive my hd800?  I’m a bit lost with these numbers.

1.24W up to 7.1Vrms @32 ohms


----------



## Ichos

vanhalen26 said:


> How would a DAP with these specs (DX300) drive my hd800?  I’m a bit lost with these numbers.
> 
> 1.24W up to 7.1Vrms @32 ohms


Not to their full potential like an OTL amp but 100% satisfactory.
(From the balanced output that is)


----------



## vanhalen26

Ichos said:


> Not to their full potential like an OTL amp but 100% satisfactory.
> (From the balanced output that is)



Would they sound good at half volume or is clarity/performance impacted at all volumes?  Thanks, I’m just curious.


----------



## Ichos

vanhalen26 said:


> Would they sound good at half volume or is clarity/performance impacted at all volumes?  Thanks, I’m just curious.


I don't have them at hand now but I don't think that volume level will impact performance.
This is very capable high end player and one of the few that can do justice to the HD800.
I am testing with the HD650 that have similar specs with the 800 and they play very good.


----------



## vanhalen26

Ichos said:


> I don't have them at hand now but I don't think that volume level will impact performance.
> This is very capable high end player and one of the few that can do justice to the HD800.
> I am testing with the HD650 that have similar specs with the 800 and they play very good.



Awesome!  I can’t wait till mine arrives early to mid next week.  I’m primarily an iem user these days (U12t and Valkyrie mostly) but have a few full size cans including the hd650, hd800, denon d2000, and a surprise favorite grado hp2.  I picked up balance cables for the IEMs (they are 3 weeks away I think in China) and already grabbed a balanced for my hd800.  Not sure if I’ll bother with balanced cables for the rest of the full size just cuz I don’t use them that often anymore ... the only one I’d think about is the grado but that’s probably a pain to acquire and change the cable on and I think it will play quite well as is.


----------



## Ichos

vanhalen26 said:


> Awesome!  I can’t wait till mine arrives early to mid next week.  I’m primarily an iem user these days (U12t and Valkyrie mostly) but have a few full size cans including the hd650, hd800, denon d2000, and a surprise favorite grado hp2.  I picked up balance cables for the IEMs (they are 3 weeks away I think in China) and already grabbed a balanced for my hd800.  Not sure if I’ll bother with balanced cables for the rest of the full size just cuz I don’t use them that often anymore ... the only one I’d think about is the grado but that’s probably a pain to acquire and change the cable on and I think it will play quite well as is.


You are going to love the pairing.
The NOS filter is very analogue sounding and it is going to be a perfect match with the 800.


----------



## Tarttett

robo24 said:


> There's a Soekris 1541 DAC listed now for $1000. I had the 1421 and Ares 1 and there was no contest. Sounds from the edges on the 1421 got mushed into the center and pretty much lost. The 1421 for me was up there in detail with the Chord Hugo 2. Another option to consider anyway.


Did you mean to refer to the sound from the edges for the Ares, and not to the sound from the edges for the 1421?


----------



## robo24

Tarttett said:


> Did you mean to refer to the sound from the edges for the Ares, and not to the sound from the edges for the 1421?


I meant on the 1421, there was a certain prominent instrument at the left and right edges of the soundstage. The same track on the Ares nearly eliminated that instrument. It was indistinct and came from closer to the center of the soundstage. Since some of my music was clearly missing on the Ares, it was clearly inferior for me.


----------



## Tarttett (Apr 5, 2021)

robo24 said:


> I meant on the 1421, there was a certain prominent instrument at the left and right edges of the soundstage. The same track on the Ares nearly eliminated that instrument. It was indistinct and came from closer to the center of the soundstage. Since some of my music was clearly missing on the Ares, it was clearly inferior for me.


Thank you for providing that clarification for me.

I would be interested to know of how the 2541, and of how the Ares II, would compare to each other.


----------



## roskodan (Apr 10, 2021)

Whassup? Painful HD800 headband hot spots? No more.

HD800 headband comfort cover. A layer of microfiber cloth under the headband and another bigger one that wraps everything together, with two paperclips to hold it. Cut to size with a scalpel. Took 5 mins. Works really great. Looks cute too. Can't go wrong with the sporty neon lime green. 




Tip: when removing, pull the top cloth piece out from underneath the clip, don't try to pull out the clip itself, as it will pierce the cloth and get stuck. 

p.s. it also increases the headband on head stability 😎


----------



## Whitigir

Scalpels are only available for purchase by Surgeons . ?


----------



## Nooborghini

Anyone used the Singxer SA-1 on the hd800 yet?


----------



## blokosss

Hi guys, I would like to have your opinion on the old models of hd800 (SN 024XX), do you think that the old models are outdated?
I've been offered for ~700€.
I wanted to enjoy the Focal Clear, but I didn't like it (too aggressive, too forward, and that clipping problem). 
I have on the other hand a lot of affection for my K702, in the same philosophy as this HD800 (never heard the HD800). 
I'm looking for precision, not bass emphasis (jazz, classical).

Thanks for your help


----------



## roskodan

s/n 024XX, as in the two thousand s/n range? That's like the very early batches from ten year ago. What condition is it in?

Clear are shouty in the 1-2kHz range, the HD800 are shouty in the 5-7kHz range. But mostly dependent on upstream interaction, since both are quite revealing in nature.


----------



## gnomen

I have the 'old' HD800 and IMHO they are still excellent for what you describe.  The newer HD800S addresses a perceived HF peak around 8,000Hz but when I auditioned the S the difference was so minor I thought it not worth changing.

This year I have added the Focal Utopia and they are, indeed, a step up.  But with the necessary Lazuli Reference cable or similar they are twice the price.  The HD800 still keeps up in terms of detail and sound stage, and mine might benefit from their own Lazuli cable, I just have not pursued getting one for the HD800s as well.

Can't speak to the condition of the pair you have been offered, of course, but that looks like a good price if they are well maintained.


----------



## blokosss

Thanks a lot for your feedbacks on this badboy, latest news : the HD800 which is proposed to me is a model of 2009 ! 
The condition seems ok (some minor scratches, new cable (original), new pads). 
My concerns are :
- The age  : can a headphone driver naturally deteriorates after >10 years ?,
- And the model : the HD800 was corrected (in 2012? ) after it was launched in 2009, but I don't know if the sound changed dramatically.
The hd800 non "s" interests me more as it is said to be easier to equalize.


----------



## blokosss

@gnomen : what is the year of production of yours ?


----------



## roskodan

In that case 700EUR doesn't sound that good to me. I got brand new ones for 800-900EUR. Bought some flawless 2nd hand too, with warranty, for 700-750EUR. Scratches, no warranty, 600EUR, maybe? Probably 500-550EUR in my book. At any rate they PEQ great.


----------



## Thenewguy007

blokosss said:


> Thanks a lot for your feedbacks on this badboy, latest news : the HD800 which is proposed to me is a model of 2009 !
> The condition seems ok (some minor scratches, new cable (original), new pads).
> My concerns are :
> - The age  : can a headphone driver naturally deteriorates after >10 years ?,
> ...



No driver degradation. There are headphones from the '70s that still work perfectly.
There was even some talk about very early models sounded better, but people concluded it was the earpads that were changed.
The only degradation would be the earpad & the padded headband part, both of which can be replaced.


----------



## gnomen (Apr 30, 2021)

blokosss said:


> @gnomen : what is the year of production of yours ?


Purchased in 2015.  No sign of wear or other degradation.  I would not expect any problems with the drivers.  It’s just a question of market value. Some headphones stay in the box and are like new, years later.  Others are hammered. Mine were used 3-5 times a week for six years before I got the Utopias in February and still look fine.


----------



## Oberst Oswald

Maybe off the beaten track here but I need some advice for the HD-800...  the stock single end cable does not last.  Bought 2 and they only last about a year or two.  Had enough.   Anybody have a suggestion on a single end, 6 to 10 foot cable that is *durable*. I'm close to 70 yrs old so I don't need a cable that the ears my dogs would enjoy. There are so many cables out there that I don't want to pay $300. + and find they sound great but don't last. The stock cables were fine for me but the rubber coating would kind of rot away I guess from the oils of my hands. Also have kind of the same problem (cable breaks at the connection) with the Audeze 2 so I would like a lead to a cable for these also if somebody knows.  Thanks.


----------



## blokosss

Hi, the HD800 is on its way, thanks for enlightening me in this choice  
the seller offers me a balanced cable of a HD800s he owns but has no use for.
I hope i'll be able to tame the beast with PEQ.


----------



## wormsdriver

If you're getting such an early serial number hd800, I'd suggest you use something like this to make sure the drivers don't rattle when playing lower frequencies. (go under "quality" - Bass shaker)


----------



## blokosss (May 5, 2021)

Thanks, I received the HD800 so these tools can be helpfull 
For now I'm playing with PEQ :
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/blob/master/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/Sennheiser HD 800/Sennheiser HD 800 ParametricEQ.txt


----------



## roskodan

I'm using the AutoEQ oratory1990 preset too as of lately. Kind of didn't feel 100% all right with me the first time I tried it, but after a couple of weeks of back and forth (also between the other presets fom AutoEQ as well as ASR) and comparing to my Clear (no peq) and LCD2C (with peq), it really became a must have, and still is since then, been 4 months using it now.

I also added an additional bass shelf band, feels much better with it to me, not surprisingly, since the AutoEQ presets seems to fall slightly short off Harman in the bass (as opposed to the stock *oratory1990* preset for the *HD800*, or any other headphone really).

Which is the following.

Low Shelf version (inspired by ASR's Amirm *PEQ style*):


> Filter 10: ON LS Fc 75 Hz Gain 4.0 dB Q 1.0


Same as Low Shelf version only (eyeballed in PEACE) using Peak filter:


> Filter 10: ON PK Fc 20 Hz Gain 4 dB Q 0.35


----------



## blokosss

Great links thanks, I do not aim at the harman curve but i pretty agree on these :

LS Fc 30 Hz Gain 8.0 dB Q 1.0
LS Fc 75 Hz Gain 4.0 dB Q 1.0
PK Fc 5700 Hz Gain -6.0 dB Q 3


----------



## blokosss

Well after some time with hd800 (I've been wanting to listen to them for years), going back and forth with the Clear and Sundara (Topping A90 ballanced), hd800 is a clear winner for me, Sundara would be second. I expected a wow effect, but I already have very good HPs, so no wow effect ! 
BUT hd800 is about precision, and that's what I was looking for.


----------



## roskodan

Same feeling here about the HD800, it's just special. But feel the same about the Clear as well.  Whichever I put on my head, stays on my head. Mine is a 2017 Clear with very worn pads. Both are very revealing of upstream gear interactions.


----------



## robo24

Not sure if it's been mentioned on this thread yet, but I'm getting new life out of my 800 SDR with the Hagerman Tuba tube amp, especially with some tube rolling. I was expecting to sell mine soon to fund some other things, but this amp has me holding on to them now. Also excellent with the 820 I have. It's detailed, not especially tubey sounding, a bit mid-forward, airy, and I'm liking it better than the iCAN Pro in tube modes with my favorite tubes and it's less than half the price. Anyway, another option for those who don't want to spend a fortune on a tube amp. It seems to bring out the best in my ZMFs too.


----------



## JamieMcC

Oberst Oswald said:


> Maybe off the beaten track here but I need some advice for the HD-800...  the stock single end cable does not last.  Bought 2 and they only last about a year or two.  Had enough.   Anybody have a suggestion on a single end, 6 to 10 foot cable that is *durable*. I'm close to 70 yrs old so I don't need a cable that the ears my dogs would enjoy. There are so many cables out there that I don't want to pay $300. + and find they sound great but don't last. The stock cables were fine for me but the rubber coating would kind of rot away I guess from the oils of my hands. Also have kind of the same problem (cable breaks at the connection) with the Audeze 2 so I would like a lead to a cable for these also if somebody knows.  Thanks.



I had the same problem myself in the end made myself a 4 meter cable out of the Mogami star quad professional mini microphone  cable it's nice and flexible and sounds to me better than the original. The extra length adds versatility.
While I made mine myself what I'm hoping to convey is a inexpensive mass produced product for the professional market can give great results without spending hundreds.

 Try a Google search for Mogami hd800 cable see what turns up.


----------



## ecva

Misodiko leather headband pad.  I was waiting for someone to do this and as soon as I saw it I quickly jumped on it.  Now it matches the misodiko leather earpads.  The fit is a pain as the holes were quite different from the og pads. I barely got it on and still, the ends were a little loose.  So while it looks great, there's still some room for improvement around the fitting holes. A good alternative minus the fit issue and it only cost me $10 from where I ordered it.


----------



## tumpux

I got the oem headband pad and it’s difficult to press the end part to fit the catcher. 
It didn’t come with the instructions on how to fit the replacement part. 

Anyone know how to do it?


----------



## ecva

tumpux said:


> I got the oem headband pad and it’s difficult to press the end part to fit the catcher.
> It didn’t come with the instructions on how to fit the replacement part.
> 
> Anyone know how to do it?


I have the same problem. Seems common for oem headband pads.


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

It shouldn't be if you got genuine parts, it actually fits nicely. Try pressing from the mid to each side


----------



## Rob80b

ecva said:


> Misodiko leather headband pad.  ........


Thanks for bringing this up... I may be soon doing another headband cushion replacement and this may be a great alternative as I've been using Misodiko's sheepskin earpads for a awhile now and holding up great.
​


----------



## tumpux

It is the genuine part.


----------



## Got the Shakes

I hope this is an okay place to ask this. What are some recommended replacement cables for the HD 800? I’m going to need to replace mine and I see the OEM replacement from Sennheiser is $220 (I’m located in the US). I would be looking for one that terminates with a 6.3mm headphone plug. Looking to spend less than the $220 that Sennheiser would charge, but if that’s what I have to spend so be it. Thanks in advance for any recommendations!


----------



## Revolution1

Got the Shakes said:


> What are some recommended replacement cables for the HD 800?


I have been using this with the HD800 for two years:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/184177267237?hash=item2ae1d21225:g:z3oAAOSwu1FeTTch


----------



## mcgo

The other morning I had a bad dream. I was outside and I had a backpack with me, and inside that I had my HD800s.  Someone started talking to me, and my attention was taken away, then in horror I saw the backpack being ransacked by 3 people! Oh no, my HD800s!!  Help!  Then I woke up 

The night before I was listening to the 2003 SACD version of Games Without Frontiers via my RME, V280 and balanced HD800. It was sublime! Truly end game.


----------



## Madcat207

So, i am REALLY late to the party, but just this week i found a decent pair of 800, in a pawn shop of all places.  Snagged them (after testing them for a good half hour) for $600+ tax.  The paint is a little worn (likely gonna try a nice rattle can this afternoon), but they sound great.  I didn't NEED these, but having wanted them for SUCH a long time, it was impossible to walk away from an affordable pair.

Sadly (er, happily), i am in the middle of a house move, so i can't compare them easily to my LCD-2, but i know they are such different headphones that both have a spot for me.  I have a little more question about what to do with my HD650s, but I won't be ditching them right away either. 

I am even most impressed how my little Tempotec Sonata HD, originally purchased for my iBasso IEMs, is actually able to physically drive the 800 (just using for basic computer audio, not audiophile level). That dac running into my Cayin C5 is a great "portable" source, and I can't wait to drive them with my E30 dac and full sized amp...


----------



## jaibautista

Joining the HD 800 party, just 12 years late! 







Got them for ~USD900; apart from superficial scratches in the lower left earcup due to the prior owner mistiming the removal of the cable pins (when I tried removing them, they felt like they were glued with Loctite!), these are basically mint/almost bnew (serial no. is in the 50XXX, so maybe they're part of the last few production batches?). 

To my ears, with the right PEQ settings (c/o the RME ADI-2) and a powerful and clean-sounding solid-state amp (c/o the Tom Christiansen Audio HPA-1), these are superbly sounding cans, with nary a hint of the dreaded 6khz peak (or maybe i've become old enough that my hearing is now somehow damaged due to more than a decade of head-fi listening hahaha). To those who are saying that these are overly bright cans, try learning EQ and you'll be amazed with the sound you'll get from them. 

Still contemplating whether to order the SDR mod (with them properly EQ'd, I still couldn't hear that boxed-in/resonant sound). Overall, very happy with the purchase and I hope to get years (or even decades) of enjoyment from them!


----------



## Amberlamps

Can some one  recommend to me a  ( good) a HD800S cable  that wont rip it’s self !!

Any one 

Cheers


----------



## Amarphael

Can anyone tell me what year, approximately, matches a #12xxx SN?


----------



## dleblanc343

Amarphael said:


> Can anyone tell me what year, approximately, matches a #12xxx SN?


Most likely 2010


----------



## Colonel Faulkner

#21xxx SN then 2012, maybe 2013, I guess?


----------



## dleblanc343

Picked up my 3rd pair of HD800’s as I want to mod them all to slight variations, given it’s such an iconic headphone.

This time I decided to try at a nerve-wracking process: painting them a different color.

Well, a day of meticulous work and the results are promising!


----------



## joseph69

Tomorrow I'm going to be listng my HD800 for sale which are all original and in mint condition with all original content, along with a 3m Cardas Clear cable and Cardas Dual 3-pin XLR connectors. These have +/-40hrs of use on them, literally.


----------



## levap

Couple of words and a star-map for 820 (there could be no less words on "good old" 800 and "good new" 800S, so I dare cross-post it here).




From the first sound, the character of the 800 S is recognized. Except that some booming characteristic of closed headphones is initially annoying, but very soon the brain switches - it stops to highlight this moment. So perhaps even at the level of the difference between the instances with 800 S, it is possible to estimate the volume of the difference, with some "correction to the wind" - a slightly smaller soundstage and a slightly more cheerful bass.

Personality. The treble is sharp-ish, slightly more embossed than the old version of the 800. The bass is clearly and unambiguously present, is sufficient in volume, without going over the border, fast and structured, from the best that I have ever met in dynamic cans. Mids perhaps a little smoother and exactly closer to the listener than in the 800 without S. The soundstage is quite standard, not bad in volume for closed cans, but without "stadium" vastness.

For comparability of the results, I listened to headphones with a 6.3 stockcable. But for real-world listening, I strongly recommend changing the stock cable immediately. In my case, the replacement was the RLS-7 Art-Cables XLR-4 version. Everything is getting better in the sound – greater clarity of mids, more balanced treble, more legible and faster bass (without loss of volume), a wider soundstage. Of the disadvantages – only the weight of the cable.

*Metal
Black, Death, Grindcore*. Is the consciousness completely poisoned by isodynamics so much that it does not allow dynamic headphones to reach to the highest heights on extreme metal? Even despite being painted black? Perhaps this is the case. From the objective side, we will add a slightly lower speed than that of the champions and the absence of a "feature" that allows you to climb up due to a certain coloration (adding raw rage, for example), we have a too monitor approach similar to the 800 S.
*Thrash, Alternative*. On thrash and alternative, the impression is different from the 800 S, which seemed too calm - 820, unlike them, they fall in enthusiastically and moderately fun.
*Doom*. 820 is played with a sufficient proper fat level for the Doom. No, I can't call the performance uber-outstanding and throwing isodynamics into the dust, but it is quite satisfactory for the top level cans.
*Sludge, Stoner*. On the sludge - everything is great without any reservations. Undoubtedly heavy metal, sludge is among the sweet points of 820.
*Progressive, Symphonic*. Prog and symphonic - simpler than 800 S. Naturalness, balance and calmness, thoughtful and measured. But it is less spacious than the 800 S can do.
*Power*. Lack of a dash of cheerful stupidity for an ideal.
*Goth*. Melancholy is a good place, but too flesh-saturated melancholy. Not quite meeting expectations, an imperfect hit.
*Industrial*. Cool-cool, fast and mobile, moderately voluminous and percussive bass. Delicious. To make it absolutely delicious for me, I would prefer a smoother sound signature, to slightly remove the meat in mids / mid-bass.

*Electronica*
On electronic music, perhaps both the 820 and 800S and the good old 800 are equally beautiful. 800 is a little nicer on ambient or something minimalistic and thoughtfully unhurried. The calmer and more sprawling nature of the 800 allows you to inhale Oxygene from Jean-Michel Jarre with a wide chest amplitude, with taste in every inhale and exhale, a tickle in the stomach. 820/800S is noticeably preferable on more vigorous genres, energy and drive are charged more efficiently, acceleration of electronic charges is enough to penetrate into the farthest corners of the listening body. Even in winter, Infected Mushroom will wake up the desire to grab a mushroom picker's combat machete and rush into the woods to collect a fragrant harvest of aspen, birch, and other white and black pears.

*Jazz*
Good, but no more. Although no less. Everything is in place - on the one hand, it is impossible to be sure of any obvious technical mistakes. But there is not enough "spark" to make it really good, to a really outstanding result on the genre.

In a word – very, very good closed headphones. I don't really understand the disappointment that I met in some reviews on them. I would boldly recommend it to fans of the generic sound signature of Sennheiser, who want to get them in a closed format.


----------



## Illya

Hi folks, I'm offering the HD800 for sale, priced to sell.  If you have any questions, PM me!
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/hd800-with-moon-audio-black-dragon-4pin-xlr.7536/


----------



## x7007

Please, someone, help me with this.  where can I find the original Headband and Ear Pads for the HD800s? I don't want china made or some fake. and I can't find it, there are prices all over and I don't know which one is real, the prices don't say anything.

Is there a better Headband than the original? because I don't want to risk losing things with the Ear Pads, moving to leather or sheepskin, it's been already said the bass becomes weaker.

If anyone can give a quick answer. I can only buy from places like Aliexpress or Ebay or Amazon or Shops that ship internationally.


----------



## wormsdriver

I've bought the headband pad and earpads from Audio Sanctuary in the UK. They ship Internationally or at least to the US. Here's the link for the earpads: https://www.audiosanctuary.co.uk/official-sennheiser-hd800-replacement-earpads-ear-cushions.html


----------



## x7007 (Aug 24, 2021)

wormsdriver said:


> I've bought the headband pad and earpads from Audio Sanctuary in the UK. They ship Internationally or at least to the US. Here's the link for the earpads: https://www.audiosanctuary.co.uk/official-sennheiser-hd800-replacement-earpads-ear-cushions.html


Thanks!

I also saw they have Headband. cool.  did you try any other Ear Pads? I really want to know what people say about others.

Would you say Headband from aliexpress is worse quality? or should be the same?

Would you say this can be very bad quality?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...exp_id=f6b02a48-0f6f-492d-85d4-ffed019f2f3f-2


----------



## Maxx134 (Aug 24, 2021)

x7007 said:


> Would you say this can be very bad quality?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...exp_id=f6b02a48-0f6f-492d-85d4-ffed019f2f3f-2


It's just a headband padding.. How bad can it be?
 Looks good to me.




wormsdriver said:


> I've bought the headband pad and earpads from Audio Sanctuary in the UK. They ship Internationally or at least to the US. Here's the link for the earpads: https://www.audiosanctuary.co.uk/official-sennheiser-hd800-replacement-earpads-ear-cushions.html


And headband:
https://www.audiosanctuary.co.uk/sennheiser-hd800-hd800s-hd820-replacement-headband-padding.html



You pay about $9 less, but wait for a bit longer shipping from China.
They look same quality (?)
🧐👍🙂


----------



## kingoftown1

On some of the non-oem replacement headbands the plastic portion is too thick, making it really tough to clip into place.


----------



## wormsdriver

I bought both headband and pads. Both are Sennheiser oem parts


----------



## x7007

wormsdriver said:


> I bought both headband and pads. Both are Sennheiser oem parts


I ordered from them also.


----------



## x7007 (Sep 2, 2021)

Never mind I made it.


----------



## fourdogslong

Are there different revisions for the CH800S balanced cable? I see that some have a grey XLR while the new ones have a black XLR.
Is that only cosmetic?


----------



## tumpux

The black ones came with HD800S. The grey ones are the retail version.


----------



## fourdogslong

tumpux said:


> The black ones came with HD800S. The grey ones are the retail version.


Ok thanks.

I think I will simply swap the 4.4mm connector for a 4 pin XLR once I receive mine but if I were to buy a new balanced cable for the hd800s, what would be best, stock Sennheiser cable or an aftermarket one around the same price like the Forza Claire Hybrid or something like that?


----------



## tumpux

Maybe someone can help you on this. 
I came from the ‘better spend the fund on the amplifier’ camp. I only have the Sennheiser‘s.
What amplifier will you use with the 800?


----------



## fourdogslong

tumpux said:


> Maybe someone can help you on this.
> I came from the ‘better spend the fund on the amplifier’ camp. I only have the Sennheiser‘s.
> What amplifier will you use with the 800?


I will use it with my Violectric V281.


----------



## tumpux

Ah, no need to worry about the cable then. 
Just close your eyes and enjoy the music.


----------



## fourdogslong

tumpux said:


> Ah, no need to worry about the cable then.
> Just close your eyes and enjoy the music.


Yeah I think I'll just swap the 4.4mm for a 4 pin XLR and enjoy the music as you say 
That way I get the sound that Sennheiser intended, at least for now.


----------



## S Crowther

fourdogslong said:


> I will use it with my Violectric V281.


I have have the V281 but prefer the Sennheiser through a xDuoo TA-20 with Amperex tubes at a fraction of the price.


----------



## fourdogslong

S Crowther said:


> I have have the V281 but prefer the Sennheiser through a xDuoo TA-20 with Amperex tubes at a fraction of the price.


Thanks I might look into it if I do t like it with my v281 but I'm a sound engineer so I usually prefer a precise playback instead of a coloured one.


----------



## S Crowther

fourdogslong said:


> Thanks I might look into it if I do t like it with my v281 but I'm a sound engineer so I usually prefer a precise playback instead of a coloured one.


These particular headphones just seem to like tubes, even a hybrid.


----------



## tumpux

No one can resists the magic of 12AU7..


----------



## fourdogslong

Anybody knows if the 4.4mm connector on the balanced cable can be unscrewed to access to soldering points?

I want to swap it for a 4 pin XLR but it doesn't seem to unscrew like a standard neutrik connector does. Maybe I just need to use pliers but I figured I'd ask first before I break something...


----------



## joseph69

fourdogslong said:


> Anybody knows if the 4.4mm connector on the balanced cable can be unscrewed to access to soldering points?
> 
> I want to swap it for a 4 pin XLR but it doesn't seem to unscrew like a standard neutrik connector does. Maybe I just need to use pliers but I figured I'd ask first before I break something...


Usually stock cable terminations don't unscrew.


----------



## fourdogslong

joseph69 said:


> Usually stock cable terminations don't unscrew.


What do people do usually, just cut the cable?
I don't feel like paying 300$ for a ch800s cable when all I need is an XLR 4 pin instead of the 4.4mm.


----------



## joseph69 (Sep 15, 2021)

fourdogslong said:


> What do people do usually, just cut the cable?
> I don't feel like paying 300$ for a ch800s cable when all I need is an XLR 4 pin instead of the 4.4mm.


Yes, cut it off as close as possible to the termination.
Not too sure if the cable colors for the 800S are the same as the 800, but below is the wireing for the the *800* cable, as well as the XLR termination. *Again, I'm not sure if the wire colors are the same for the 800S.*


----------



## fourdogslong

joseph69 said:


> Yes, cut it off as close as possible to the termination.
> Not too sure if the cable colors for the 800S are the same as the 800, but below is the wireing for the the *800* cable, as well as the XLR termination. *Again, I'm not sure if the wire colors are the same for the 800S.*


Thanks for the info!


----------



## x7007

I have weird crackling on the right headphones after I replaced ear pads, using the windows 10 volume .. could I damage anything?


----------



## johnjen

OR…
Cut it off with about 1-2' so you can make an adapter to plug it back into a TRS connection.
Use a female 4 pin xlr on the pigtail to do that.

JJ


----------



## x7007

Is it possible to braid somehow the Original cable? where it split into two it's very fragile. I ordered one because the old one had splinters or whatever it called, the outside black cover is torn so you could see the cable. Is it possible to make it stronger?  I also have the  CARDAS AUDIO CLEAR but it broke down on one of the connectors so I need to send it for repairs, and I can't be without headphones until I deliver it and it gets back. The original cable is enough and I'll always have backup, it's not something you need to buy every year. but I want to protect it. Does anyone have any idea how?


----------



## Whitigir

x7007 said:


> Is it possible to braid somehow the Original cable? where it split into two it's very fragile. I ordered one because the old one had splinters or whatever it called, the outside black cover is torn so you could see the cable. Is it possible to make it stronger?  I also have the  CARDAS AUDIO CLEAR but it broke down on one of the connectors so I need to send it for repairs, and I can't be without headphones until I deliver it and it gets back. The original cable is enough and I'll always have backup, it's not something you need to buy every year. but I want to protect it. Does anyone have any idea how?


To reinforce any cables joints and weak link.  Simply buy sugru and give it a good chunk of that.  Then wait for about 8 hours before start using


----------



## x7007

Whitigir said:


> To reinforce any cables joints and weak link.  Simply buy sugru and give it a good chunk of that.  Then wait for about 8 hours before start using


hmm looks cool but I don't know if I would be able to get it. I live in Israel. any other way that I can get something from aliexpress? I would still have warranty on the cable so I don't want to mess with that.


----------



## Whitigir

x7007 said:


> hmm looks cool but I don't know if I would be able to get it. I live in Israel. any other way that I can get something from aliexpress? I would still have warranty on the cable so I don't want to mess with that.


Ugh, the only way to reinforce it is to get something to enhance it strengths.  I don’t know what you can get in Israel though.  But the sugru can be DIY at home….but then you don’t want to mess with the warranty, so I don’t have any further ideas :/


----------



## x7007 (Sep 17, 2021)

Whitigir said:


> Ugh, the only way to reinforce it is to get something to enhance it strengths.  I don’t know what you can get in Israel though.  But the sugru can be DIY at home….but then you don’t want to mess with the warranty, so I don’t have any further ideas :/


This looks good enough, which size do you think will fit for the original HD800s cable?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001916062476.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.17.24107718bQYnlS&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.33416.213724.0&scm_id=1007.33416.213724.0&scm-url=1007.33416.213724.0&pvid=b856f77f-1b14-48d6-848c-0a80cafc5fbc&_t=gps-idcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.33416.213724.0,pvid:b856f77f-1b14-48d6-848c-0a80cafc5fbc,tpp_buckets:668#2846#8112#1997&pdp_ext_f={"sceneId":"23416","sku_id":"12000024394295976"}


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32858346673.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.2f2e2f6bojyF9m&algo_pvid=18a21b1c-1d8d-4fa5-8046-31d60cca7b24&algo_exp_id=18a21b1c-1d8d-4fa5-8046-31d60cca7b24-55&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000022800183375"}

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...b0b7c87-51&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"67166964834"}


----------



## MrMan

Been at this audio grind since 2008. I can say I've found my perfect combo of CEntrance HiFi-M8 paired with Sennheiser HD800. Not sure if its the "ideal" sound but for me this is what I've been trying to achieve since day one.  Vocals are extremely forward, audio placement is pin point and still some weight to bass notes.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

DO you use the balanced or single ended output of the HiFiM8? Thanks!


----------



## MrMan

ruthieandjohn said:


> DO you use the balanced or single ended output of the HiFiM8? Thanks!



I was using balanced xlr moon audio and it sounded like crap. I switched to stock solely because it was longer and found the audio so much better.


----------



## fourdogslong

joseph69 said:


> Yes, cut it off as close as possible to the termination.
> Not too sure if the cable colors for the 800S are the same as the 800, but below is the wireing for the the *800* cable, as well as the XLR termination. *Again, I'm not sure if the wire colors are the same for the 800S.*


Just to confirm that the colors matched for my 800s!

I used a rhodium plated furutech 4 pin XLR with some 10% silver solder from audio consulting. Will listen to it once I feel better since I have a cold right now and my ears are all messed up.


----------



## joseph69

fourdogslong said:


> Just to confirm that the colors matched for my 800s!
> 
> I used a rhodium plated furutech 4 pin XLR with some 10% silver solder from audio consulting. Will listen to it once I feel better since I have a cold right now and my ears are all messed up.


Glad to hear that the colors matched for the 800S.
I'm in the same boat as you with a nasty cold right now, but I'm pretty much over the hump.
Enjoy!


----------



## inertianinja

Can anyone recommend a *closed-back headphone* that is similar (to the extent possible) to the HD800 SDR/S?

I've been using the HD800+SDR for years, and been through a lot of closed-backs, but nothing that had the same detail + sound signature. 
I know you can't replicate the open sound, but I need something with some isolation.


----------



## fourdogslong

inertianinja said:


> Can anyone recommend a *closed-back headphone* that is similar (to the extent possible) to the HD800 SDR/S?
> 
> I've been using the HD800+SDR for years, and been through a lot of closed-backs, but nothing that had the same detail + sound signature.
> I know you can't replicate the open sound, but I need something with some isolation.


I have no experience with it but perhaps it would be worth it to try the hd820?


----------



## inertianinja

fourdogslong said:


> I have no experience with it but perhaps it would be worth it to try the hd820?



I'm looking at the HD820, but the reviews are mixed. Not sure.

Are there any other good options out there?


----------



## rjb1101

G0rt said:


> I seem to have found my Happy Place(tm)


What brand are the ear pads on the right that look thinner?


----------



## inertianinja

rjb1101 said:


> What brand are the ear pads on the right that look thinner?



i use these on my SDR - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MXB8XKQ/

I have tried those thick Dekoni pads, but I didn’t like what they did to the sound.


----------



## G0rt

rjb1101 said:


> What brand are the ear pads on the right that look thinner?


Misodiko


----------



## RCBinTN

inertianinja said:


> I'm looking at the HD820, but the reviews are mixed. Not sure.
> 
> Are there any other good options out there?


I heard the HD820 and do not recommend them. 
My pal @whirlwind gives the ZMF Verite Closed a high rating ... https://shop.zmfheadphones.com/products/verite-closed


----------



## inertianinja

RCBinTN said:


> I heard the HD820 and do not recommend them.
> My pal @whirlwind gives the ZMF Verite Closed a high rating ... https://shop.zmfheadphones.com/products/verite-closed



Sure, but those are $1000 more than the 820. They ought to be better!


----------



## RCBinTN

Yep.


----------



## RCBinTN

Another option would be the Audez'e LCD-XC, the closed version of their open LCD-X. I owned both for awhile and the XC aren't bad. They are, however, heavy but I think the price is similar to the HD820. Try to listen and certainly get more input prior to purchasing!


----------



## inertianinja

RCBinTN said:


> Another option would be the Audez'e LCD-XC, the closed version of their open LCD-X. I owned both for awhile and the XC aren't bad. They are, however, heavy but I think the price is similar to the HD820. Try to listen and certainly get more input prior to purchasing!



I’m going to try those out tomorrow, actually. I am concerned about the weight and thick pads, though. I have the LCD-3 and it’s definitely not an all-day headphone.


----------



## RCBinTN

The addition of the wider carbon-fiber headband greatly improves the comfort of these cans. I own the LCD-4 w/ the wider headband and it helps a lot. FYI, mate


----------



## rjb1101

inertianinja said:


> i use these on my SDR - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MXB8XKQ/
> 
> I have tried those thick Dekoni pads, but I didn’t like what they did to the sound.


I’m only concerned about comfort. Which were more comfortable?


----------



## rjb1101

G0rt said:


> Misodiko


And the ones on the left?


----------



## inertianinja

rjb1101 said:


> I’m only concerned about comfort. Which were more comfortable?


Personally I prefer the thinner pads. The HD800 are so light that I didn’t see any advantage for the thick pillow pads. 
Also the leather-ish pads are preferable to me, as the velour pads feel weird to me after too much time.


----------



## Steve1976

From several online reviews seems like the new HD8XX is nowhere near the original 800 or 800s due to the weird tuning? Anyone tried them on?


----------



## lesale08

There were reports that for users with smaller than usual head shape, the hd800 with stock pads seem to be a nuisance and won't stay in its place even from small head movements. Changing to thicker pads might help with this issue. 


inertianinja said:


> Personally I prefer the thinner pads. The HD800 are so light that I didn’t see any advantage for the thick pillow pads.
> Also the leather-ish pads are preferable to me, as the velour pads feel weird to me after too much time.


----------



## tumpux

I wonder how small is those heads to have problem with HD800 staying on..


----------



## Nebula769

After listening to the hd800 for a few weeks I feel a bit disappointed. I was pretty hyped for them when I got them but they sound thin and almost lifeless. They also sounded less dynamic and engaging compared to my utopias.


----------



## rjb1101

Nebula769 said:


> After listening to the hd800 for a few weeks I feel a bit disappointed. I was pretty hyped for them when I got them but they sound thin and almost lifeless. They also sounded less dynamic and engaging compared to my utopias.


I had the opposite experience. Most comfortable over ears (after applying dekoni nuggets) I have ever used. I thought I would be disappointed in the bass compared to my HE-560’s but feel the bass is clearer on the HD800s, though a bit quieter.


----------



## Levanter

Nebula769 said:


> After listening to the hd800 for a few weeks I feel a bit disappointed. I was pretty hyped for them when I got them but they sound thin and almost lifeless. They also sounded less dynamic and engaging compared to my utopias.



That has been the general consensus on the HD800S vs Utopia and other dynamic headphones. If you were looking for warm, punchy and dynamic sound there were countless reviews that already told you otherwise. No idea why you bought the 800S with that expectation...


----------



## BournePerfect

Nebula769 said:


> After listening to the hd800 for a few weeks I feel a bit disappointed. I was pretty hyped for them when I got them but they sound thin and almost lifeless. They also sounded less dynamic and engaging compared to my utopias.


 Sound precisely the opposite out of my Studio B with EML meshes. There must be something wrong with your pair..


----------



## x7007

I did it like this m I hope it will keep it safe


----------



## roskodan

Indeed the HD800 headband is giving me some really bad hot spots. Is it more comfortable than stock? Looks nice too.


----------



## RCBinTN

Nebula769 said:


> After listening to the hd800 for a few weeks I feel a bit disappointed. I was pretty hyped for them when I got them but they sound thin and almost lifeless. They also sounded less dynamic and engaging compared to my utopias.


The HD800 will always sound thin and lifeless until they are properly driven. But, once they are properly driven, they come alive. Their sound will never be "warm" so if you're looking for that, look at other cans.


----------



## roskodan

With the right tube amp, and tubes, the HD800 can be pushed to the warm side of neutral, the best part is it's very difficult to get it muddied, while still getting decent warmth out of them. One of those headphones that makes it worth to have a decent tube amp, even the best PEQ will feel underwhelming in comparison to a well matched tube amp with these, unless one is trying to make a jack of all trades out of them, in which case imo PEQ is the only safe way.


----------



## geta123

x7007 said:


> I did it like this m I hope it will keep it safe


Nice


----------



## Sajid Amit

Revisted the legend and loved it more than ever! My review of the HD800. Hope this is useful.


----------



## JamieMcC

Nice review and great to to see the Senn hd800 getting some love.  Count me as a new subscriber to your YouTube channel.


----------



## FiGuY1017

I laugh to myself every time I hear someone say in regards to the hd800. Can A is just on another planet. For example I see people say they like utopia better than Susvara, then someone will say they liked Hekv2 better than the utopia, meanwhile the "Hek V2 is lackluster compared to Susvara" The logic never stands up to scrutiny, I'm afraid people over exaggerate differences or atleast demonstrate the obvious variables in equipment and synergy. I.e  I could put my end game 800 rig up to a Susvara on the same system, that may not be the best match and conclude the 800 is " on another planet" to many variables and to much hype keeps us on this never ending ride lol. Good thing it's a fun one 😆


----------



## JamieMcC (Oct 29, 2021)

I finished up building a new 
 tube amp kit for my home set up to use with both speakers and headphone.

The Elekit TU-8900 can use either 300B or 2A3 tubes. I've been listening to it for a few weeks now with my hd800 and have it's definitely impressed. Certainly feels a step or two above my Bottlehead Mainline which I think is high praise for what is essentially a speaker amp with a adjustable gain settings for headphone use as well.

The added bonus is my HIfiman HE6 also sounds absolutely superb (the best I've heard it) driven off the speaker taps.

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/elekit/374425-elekit-tu-8900-2a3-300b.html

Elikit 300b thread here on headfi early posts are for the TU-8600 later posts from about September start to feature the TU-8900

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/elekit-300b-amp-kit.869957/page-11#post-16630490


----------



## MDR30

Does anyone know where to get original HD800 ear and headband pads in EU? Seem to be out of stock when I search from Sweden.


----------



## roskodan

MDR30 said:


> Does anyone know where to get original HD800 ear and headband pads in EU? Seem to be out of stock when I search from Sweden.


Did you try the Sennheiser official Sweden shop?

https://sv-se.sennheiser.com/v4r/sajari_search?q=hd800

https://sv-se.sennheiser.com/accessories--padding--hd-800--

https://sv-se.sennheiser.com/accessories--hd-800--ear-cushion

I got em from *meier-audio* (Germany), but any official reseller (in Sweden too) should be able to order for you.


----------



## MDR30

roskodan said:


> Did you try the Sennheiser official Sweden shop?
> 
> https://sv-se.sennheiser.com/v4r/sajari_search?q=hd800
> 
> ...



Thanks, but ear pads not available on that link. Terrible site build. They really need to shape up.

I usually buy these things from Thomann but they don't stock HD800 pads. Strange.


----------



## FiGuY1017

I have my Heron 5 up for sale, this amp is simply magical with the HD 800.


----------



## SR1se

Can anyone tell me which is better, sdr or anax? I knew sdr is latest mod on hd800.


----------



## bearFNF (Dec 30, 2021)

SR1se said:


> Can anyone tell me which is better, sdr or anax? I knew sdr is latest mod on hd800.


Been a while but I listened to both of them way back when they were being worked on and vaguely remember that Anax took a little too much out for my taste. I went with SDR and have not really even thought about it till now. I also put on stock (un-modded) Dekoni Elite Sheepskin pads. I have never liked the stock pads, also not much of velour pad fan. Like the leather or pleather pads more.

You can search this thread to get any more info...


----------



## DuncanDirkDick

Adding the helmholtz resonator makes sense, everything else was detrimental in my experience.


----------



## the1andonly

How good are these on tubes? My friend wants to sell me one and says I can either take the balanced cable or single ended.... Should I get SE for Woo Audio WA7 or Balanced for Oppo HA-1?


----------



## JoeTho

the1andonly said:


> How good are these on tubes? My friend wants to sell me one and says I can either take the balanced cable or single ended.... Should I get SE for Woo Audio WA7 or Balanced for Oppo HA-1?


I gave my HD800 to my wife a while ago. She sits by the fireplace and listens to them using the Oppo HA1. She loves it. But out of curiosity, I plugged them into the Musical Paradise MP301 MK3 Integrated vacuum tube amp last night. My dac was the RME ADI 2 DAC. It was the best I've ever heard the HD800 sound. Even better than the Utopia in my opinion.


----------



## H20Fidelity

I find the Burson takes about 30-minutes to warm up, after that its golden.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

the1andonly said:


> How good are these on tubes? My friend wants to sell me one and says I can either take the balanced cable or single ended.... Should I get SE for Woo Audio WA7 or Balanced for Oppo HA-1?


All the 300 ohm Sennheisers are very, very happy out of a good OTL amp. On paper the WA2 is the best Woo to choose unless you have money to burn.


----------



## the1andonly

gimmeheadroom said:


> All the 300 ohm Sennheisers are very, very happy out of a good OTL amp. On paper the WA2 is the best Woo to choose unless you have money to burn.


is that because of the tubes it uses? the WA7 is the same price and the gen2 without the WA7tp is even cheaper... I got a gen 1 WA7 + WA7tp for $600 from a user here


----------



## gimmeheadroom

the1andonly said:


> is that because of the tubes it uses? the WA7 is the same price and the gen2 without the WA7tp is even cheaper... I got a gen 1 WA7 + WA7tp for $600 from a user here


No, it's because of the topology. And again, I said on paper, because I haven't heard either amp. In general OTLs are prime feed for 300 ohm Sennheisers. Other topology tube amps may be fine, bad, great, depending on the specific amp.


----------



## the1andonly

gimmeheadroom said:


> No, it's because of the topology. And again, I said on paper, because I haven't heard either amp. In general OTLs are prime feed for 300 ohm Sennheisers. Other topology tube amps may be fine, bad, great, depending on the specific amp.


oh ok, I kind of understand sir, wasn't trying to be rude, but I am curios why does the WA2 look better of paper if you don't mind telling me, I know I am not very knowledgeable on this so I might not understand, so no worries I think I understand you mean theoretically! Also it does look very freaking cool!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

the1andonly said:


> oh ok, I kind of understand sir, wasn't trying to be rude, but I am curios why does the WA2 look better of paper if you don't mind telling me, I know I am not very knowledgeable on this so I might not understand, so no worries I think I understand you mean theoretically! Also it does look very freaking cool!


There is no sir here and you are not rude at all. I'm not expert on this enough to give you a full explanation. OTL amps don't have a transformer, the WA2 is that type. Those amps work well with high impedance loads like the HD 800. SET amps, which is what the WA7 is might or might not work as well, you just have to try. So if you can't listen for a few hours to each one ahead of time, the safe bet is a good OTL amp.


----------



## the1andonly

gimmeheadroom said:


> There is no sir here and you are not rude at all. I'm not expert on this enough to give you a full explanation. OTL amps don't have a transformer, the WA2 is that type. Those amps work well with high impedance loads like the HD 800. SET amps, which is what the WA7 is might or might not work as well, you just have to try. So if you can't listen for a few hours to each one ahead of time, the safe bet is a good OTL amp.


Whoa thank you! was not even aware of these attributes, haha yeah I got the WA7 because the Abyss guys recognized it's sound quality, which means nothing as far as stuff they may not have recognized isn't necessarily bad or not that it cannot/isn't be better than the WA7... but man I got the Gen1 with the Burr Brown DAC knowing it was old but smooth(which I like) and the sound quality was great when I forgot I was using 16/28khz even, when I turned it to 32/192khz I was just amazed how great it sounds... I am going to go research the terms you just used to understand tube amps better! I really like them, and you have no doubt helped me to make more informed decisions on them in the future, so thank you!  this whole forum is pretty awesome for learning and trying new stuff


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jan 13, 2022)

the1andonly said:


> Whoa thank you! was not even aware of these attributes, haha yeah I got the WA7 because the Abyss guys recognized it's sound quality, which means nothing as far as stuff they may not have recognized isn't necessarily bad or not that it cannot/isn't be better than the WA7... but man I got the Gen1 with the Burr Brown DAC knowing it was old but smooth(which I like) and the sound quality was great when I forgot I was using 16/28khz even, when I turned it to 32/192khz I was just amazed how great it sounds... I am going to go research the terms you just used to understand tube amps better! I really like them, and you have no doubt helped me to make more informed decisions on them in the future, so thank you!  this whole forum is pretty awesome for learning and trying new stuff


Burr Brown DACs are a great old skool sound. But every DAC needs a good power supply and analog section too.

Anyway, there are general rules of thumb but there are also always exceptions. I have to buy most of my gear without being able to listen to it before making a decision. So I'm generally following the guidelines I learned on this forum and so far it has worked out fine. If you already got the WA7 I'm sorry for the confusion I added here, I totally misread your post  I thought you were asking whether to buy the WA7 or the Oppo <FACEPALM>

So my apologies and Enjoy the music!


----------



## smodtactical (Jan 14, 2022)

Anyone have a HD800 headband cover or cushion they use? I tried the ZMF pilot and co-pilot suede pads but didn't feel quite right. My stock pad needs to be replaced but i figure there might be some cover that people find comfortable.


----------



## cycle53x12

JoeTho said:


> I gave my HD800 to my wife a while ago. She sits by the fireplace and listens to them using the Oppo HA1. She loves it. But out of curiosity, I plugged them into the Musical Paradise MP301 MK3 Integrated vacuum tube amp last night. My dac was the RME ADI 2 DAC. It was the best I've ever heard the HD800 sound. Even better than the Utopia in my opinion.


I love the HD800, I recently added some balanced cables and just love the sound when driven with the right amp. Everything sounds so wide with the HD. Still a great headphone if you are willing to EQ than you can relieve some of the treble.


----------



## the1andonly (Jan 15, 2022)

smodtactical said:


> Anyone have a HD800 headband cover or cushion they use? I tried the ZMF pilot and co-pilot suede pads but didn't feel quite right. My stock pad needs to be replaced but i figure there might be some cover that people find comfortable.


Did Sennheiser stop selling the OEM headbands?

Also this is what I bought for my Focals as soon as I got them, I also was able to get Focal to send me a pair of earpads, and they messed up so I ended up getting them free which was nice of them, so now I have perfect unsullied headband and extra earpads so I ain't losing $$$ when I sell it because of nasty dirty headband or old beatup earpads
https://www.amazon.com/Headband-Universal-Replacement-Protector-Headphones/dp/B07JGLNNHY

also the one I got might be slightly differently named, pretty sure it said "Focal" in title and was the exact right size, I had to relook up the item so this is the same maker and the same build but might not be sized perfectly for Focals or anything else

Here is the exact ASIN I bought (cannot find it listed anymore but it said "Large" in title and was for "2 1/2" " headband)
B0814D2NG7
Old title (cannot find the item at all now, only much smaller sized)


"Large Sized Replacement Headband Cushion Pad Cover Head Band Protector with Zipper, Headband Cover Cushion Protector Pad for Headphones (Max for 2-1/2''W Cushion pad, Black) (New)"


EDIT- nevermind just out of stock
https://spares.sennheiser.com/en-us/catalog/sparepart/534406


----------



## the1andonly

Cross posting this



Harty said:


> I've included pictures of my old HD800 Earpads which fit back into the HD800 perfectly, and a picture of the new HD800 Earpads, the new HD800 Earpads plastic white-ish coloured membrane is too tight to fit on to the HD800's, as explained in my earlier post.
> 
> Sennheiser are aware of this problem, and are working to resolve it.
> 
> ...


Ok so it has been 6 years since this post, if there is another revision of the earpads (it seems from what I can find there very well may be, looking at this video from 2018 ) 

I am trying to figure out if these parts I want to buy are genuine OEM or knockoffs, if anyone familiar with the version of pads they are selling and headband pads can chime in and tell me these are OEM or not OEM


----------



## gimmeheadroom

@Sennheiser


----------



## helljudgement

the1andonly said:


> How good are these on tubes?


Tubes are great with the 800. Had much more success with tubes over solid state at all price point I've tried.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

helljudgement said:


> Tubes are great with the 800. Had much more success with tubes over solid state at all price point I've tried.


All the 300 ohm Sennheisers cry out for a good OTL amp.


----------



## the1andonly

guys... My HD800 cables won't go in, everything looks like it should fit but I feel like I would need to push waaay to hard to get them it, they just not going in,,,,


----------



## the1andonly (Jan 16, 2022)

guys, are these supposed to be like... in permanently? I got them in, and it quite hard which is concerning because I think I might need pliers to get them out and even then....

EDIT- Amazing. On. Tubes.... Goodbye grain! even my smooth 9018 and warm oppo HA-1 was jarring... Thank you WA7

Yup, this is def 1000% hifi.... fuuu it doesn't even feel insanely more detailed... just SO FREAKING CLEAR, THE CLARITY IS AMAZING


----------



## Ichos

the1andonly said:


> guys, are these supposed to be like... in permanently? I got them in, and it quite hard which is concerning because I think I might need pliers to get them out and even then....


Have you correctly aligned the little ledge into the corresponding gap?
Mind you that sometimes are very difficult to pull out.


----------



## AudioMoksha

Yes, the cables can be tough to pull out, just be careful so you don't pull out the housing.


----------



## the1andonly (Jan 16, 2022)

Ichos said:


> Have you correctly aligned the little ledge into the corresponding gap?
> Mind you that sometimes are very difficult to pull out.


well to be fair they were kind of misaligned on the left and right clockwise and the connectors on the HD800 were both kind of misaligned counter  clockwise... as first I thought there was supposed to be a slight twist and the chinese company that made these (they are cheap for HD800 wires) simply messed up the twist of L/R but I went into the cable and managed to twist them a bit,,,, still very tight fit both in and just to get the pins in... but they are stuck in there will probably like 50lbs of force needed to take them out... lol I had to full force push them in, I used to do near national record breaking deadlifts, been a while since I lifted but with that shiny plastic part being so flimsy and it being made of plastic it was still nerve wracking....

Anyway they are in and I have a SE adapter I said F it and just tested (was going to wait for focal cable bcus it's warrantied) and I was surprised how grainy they sounded on the HA-1 which is pretty smooth and warm, but the tubes are fantastic..... I am actually pretty dang surprised, I just did an amazing mod (ZMF fenetrated sheepskins) on DT 1990 and it's normal sound of lots of the FR being veiled and murky and the mids being non-understandable cleared right up . shame I tried this a couple days later.... it is so freaking past clear, as someone who for whatever reason normally has a hard time understanding speech in movies this is just amazing...... NGL the soundstage just seems _kind of _bigger, but much more separation and yeah, the clearest imaging also... than even the DT1990's with stock pads...

this is so crazy, my mind is literally being blown right now... guys, I think I am one of you, the only thing nagging at me (and it won't stop) is that I can _clearly _hear the compression, I thought the DT1990's or even Elegia's would be close but it's so obvious and annoying me now that the music isn't lossless..... I want to go and load up apex (haven't played MP games in probably 2 years now).... I feel like I am a caveman that just got a measuring stick now, and nobody can tell me what is what, I can hear anything, I can say which headphones have good technical performance, how each amp and dac effects stuff..* I AM INVINCIBLE*_(ok joking)_

Feelsgoodman


----------



## bearFNF (Jan 16, 2022)

Well this is a first, I have seen the nock offs be too loose, as in so loose that one cable I was testing for someone just fell out from the weight of the cable. Come to find out that the nock off connector parts were missing a feature that is supposed to be there. That cable maker found better supplier for the connectors after that.

That being said the stock cables are sometimes a little tight at first, but you should not have to "gorilla" them in and out. More finesse them in and out. but having them lined up properly certainly helps... LOL


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I hate the HD 800 connectors. If you never swap cables they're ok


----------



## gimmeheadroom

the1andonly said:


> well to be fair they were kind of misaligned on the left and right clockwise and the connectors on the HD800 were both kind of misaligned counter  clockwise... as first I thought there was supposed to be a slight twist and the chinese company that made these (they are cheap for HD800 wires) simply messed up the twist of L/R but I went into the cable and managed to twist them a bit,,,, still very tight fit both in and just to get the pins in... but they are stuck in there will probably like 50lbs of force needed to take them out... lol I had to full force push them in, I used to do near national record breaking deadlifts, been a while since I lifted but with that shiny plastic part being so flimsy and it being made of plastic it was still nerve wracking....
> 
> Anyway they are in and I have a SE adapter I said F it and just tested (was going to wait for focal cable bcus it's warrantied) and I was surprised how grainy they sounded on the HA-1 which is pretty smooth and warm, but the tubes are fantastic..... I am actually pretty dang surprised, I just did an amazing mod (ZMF fenetrated sheepskins) on DT 1990 and it's normal sound of lots of the FR being veiled and murky and the mids being non-understandable cleared right up . shame I tried this a couple days later.... it is so freaking past clear, as someone who for whatever reason normally has a hard time understanding speech in movies this is just amazing...... NGL the soundstage just seems _kind of _bigger, but much more separation and yeah, the clearest imaging also... than even the DT1990's with stock pads...
> 
> ...


This is kinda what Tyll said, but with less words. Basically, the HD 800s make you hate most of the recordings you used to love


----------



## the1andonly

gimmeheadroom said:


> This is kinda what Tyll said, but with less words. Basically, the HD 800s make you hate most of the recordings you used to love


damn... so good it's bad. lol this is why I love tubes tho, everything smooth... like most people haven't tried the Oppo HA-1 or it's very unique implimentation of the 9018 SABRE which is usually very analytic, but It legit sounds grainy! Here is a preview vs the current sort of "high end" chip for $1-2k "best in class" (for neutral lovers) DACs





gimmeheadroom said:


> I hate the HD 800 connectors. If you never swap cables they're ok


same bruh, gave up all hope of getting some high end later, legit not even a cable guy and $40ish minimum price (it is pretty nice besides the tolerances tho) already pushing it, I could be billionaire rich and I doubt I would put a $200 let alone $100 or even close into this beater set before just buying a brand new HD800s or probably scrap it and just get super TOTL anyway



bearFNF said:


> Well this is a first, I have seen the nock offs be too loose, as in so loose that one cable I was testing for someone just fell out from the weight of the cable. Come to find out that the nock off connector parts were missing a feature that is supposed to be there. That cable maker found better supplier for the connectors after that.
> 
> That being said the stock cables are sometimes a little tight at first, but you should not have to "gorilla" them in and out. More finesse them in and out. but having them lined up properly certainly helps... LOL


I saw something like that on my search,,,, but it was def not just from the pins, the metal tolerances also were pretty crazy, I gave it about as much grip as a 225+ 1 handed deadlift... maybe more... had to pad it and everything when I unscrewed it the flat metal ring was digging into my hands  I am probably being conservative saying if you attached a 50 pound weight in some fantasy controlled setting where it wouldn't transfer force and just break, that it wouldn't just come out... it's def not 100lbs of force, not quite that much but probably realistically between65-75lbs of force needed to get the thing out just pulling... If I ever get it out it's going to take some finesse, some deconstructing, and probably some nonconductive lubricant....lol


----------



## the1andonly

The bass on this is fine... it has some decent sub-bass rumble, maybe even more than my modded DT1990, which isn't far from stock, maybe more than elegia, close enough to Ananda (except for the planar advantage)... I mean it's not Audeze level but it really isn't bad for a dynamic at all and it's super textured.... I cannot believe I didn't buy this earlier, I was convinced I was a basshead, apparently I am not, refusing to buy radiance and get rid of Elegia and now liking HD800 non s bass....

(that spike tho, any mods besides SDR to kill this dang peak???)


----------



## DenverW

the1andonly said:


> The bass on this is fine... it has some decent sub-bass rumble, maybe even more than my modded DT1990, which isn't far from stock, maybe more than elegia, close enough to Ananda (except for the planar advantage)... I mean it's not Audeze level but it really isn't bad for a dynamic at all and it's super textured.... I cannot believe I didn't buy this earlier, I was convinced I was a basshead, apparently I am not, refusing to buy radiance and get rid of Elegia and now liking HD800 non s bass....
> 
> (that spike tho, any mods besides SDR to kill this dang peak???)


The sdr mod is the easiest and most reversible.  I recommend it!


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jan 22, 2022)

DenverW said:


> The sdr mod is the easiest and most reversible.  I recommend it!


Easiest answer is I don't listen to music on my HD 800s (plural like pants! Not S version) that needs any correction. Usually people have more than one set of cans. So use each one where it shines.

The other fix is more expensive but more useful overall- RME DAC with parametric EQ. You don't have to mod your headphones and you can fix any problem worth fixing in a non-invasive way.


----------



## the1andonly

gimmeheadroom said:


> Easiest answert is I don't listen to music on my HD 800s (plural like pants! Not S version) that needs any correction. Usually people have more than one set of cans. So use each one where it shines.
> 
> The other fix is more expensive but more useful overall- RME DAC with parametric EQ. You don't have to mod your headphones and you can fix any problem worth fixing in an non-invasive way.


I have had parametric EQ on the 24459, ended up immediately selling it as soon as I A/B'ed it with my current DAC/AMP which has a remote(this has become a must for me on everyhting except tube amps, also the fact it has a phone app and I can switch it off from the next room since I always forget to turn it of is very nice)
_Does the RME DAC have a remote also by chance?_ I don't like software EQ so one on hardware is the only kind I will use but I am used to the remote and almost a must now!

I also rarely ever use the HD800's for music, it's why I keep my DT1990's around, I use it mainly for actual production reason(don't produce but I manage some people who do, as well as for movie's when want to be able to hear dialogue over natural sound(mostly kdrama's but ananda) or action (LCD-3 for dramatic sound, sometimes DT1990)... still I do use it sometimes for music, but I used to 100% of the time just watch youtube and I can always tell on the HD800 and it sounds icky so if I listen to FLAC it's HD800... I will never sell this headphone which is great because I had to jam a $50 balanced cable into the connectors and I am not looking forward to ever getting it out....lol


----------



## gimmeheadroom

the1andonly said:


> I have had parametric EQ on the 24459, ended up immediately selling it as soon as I A/B'ed it with my current DAC/AMP which has a remote(this has become a must for me on everyhting except tube amps, also the fact it has a phone app and I can switch it off from the next room since I always forget to turn it of is very nice)
> _Does the RME DAC have a remote also by chance?_


Yes, it's quite a nice remote and the RME lets you program/customize some of the buttons



the1andonly said:


> I don't like software EQ so one on hardware is the only kind I will use but I am used to the remote and almost a must now!


Well, I'm with you on hardware EQ vs. software EQ but the RME EQ is firmware, so technically it's software, even though it happens in hardware 

I miss my old SAE parametric EQ box, it's in storage somewhere...



the1andonly said:


> I also rarely ever use the HD800's for music


I didn't mean to say I rarely use them. I meant, I don't punish myself by listening to Joni Mitchell out of a pair of 800s


----------



## Adriano1402

Tried crinacle and oratory settings and it is far better than stock, but i like the sound from planars like Aeon Flow much more. Is there a way to make the HD800 more gentle?


----------



## BournePerfect

Good tubes, especially OTLs.


----------



## Adriano1402

BournePerfect said:


> Good tubes, especially OTLs.


Is it not possible to simulate that with eq settings?


----------



## BournePerfect

I'm the wrong guy to ask about EQ stuff unfortunately...but I'll say the right tube amp can give the HD800 more tone and body, better timbre that my not be possible via eq


----------



## the1andonly

Adriano1402 said:


> Is it not possible to simulate that with eq settings?


you would need a filter, I have seen amp's with tube filter but they were all cheap, an iFi Pro iCan could do it, one was on sale for $850 here but you missed it, it actually does have tubes tho and allows you to switch between SS to tubes... you could also just get a dark amp, like the HDV 820 but that will cost a pretty penny, so basically it's a computer filter or a whole nother AMP section at least that would preferably match your other AMP and preferably whole DAC/AMP that is smooth...

I just got a gen 1 WA7 and run my Oppo HA-1 DAC or HDV 800's dac thru it, but both those dacs are tuned smooth, it helps a lot though, you can geta  gen 1 WA7 for like $400ish on a good day, from what I understand has the same AMP section as the gen 2 and gen 3(except that is balanced) just different DAC's which you can bypass, the 3rd gen is like $1400 and recommended by Abyss for their headphones so you know it's damn good


----------



## Adriano1402

the1andonly said:


> you would need a filter, I have seen amp's with tube filter but they were all cheap, an iFi Pro iCan could do it, one was on sale for $850 here but you missed it, it actually does have tubes tho and allows you to switch between SS to tubes... you could also just get a dark amp, like the HDV 820 but that will cost a pretty penny, so basically it's a computer filter or a whole nother AMP section at least that would preferably match your other AMP and preferably whole DAC/AMP that is smooth...
> 
> I just got a gen 1 WA7 and run my Oppo HA-1 DAC or HDV 800's dac thru it, but both those dacs are tuned smooth, it helps a lot though, you can geta  gen 1 WA7 for like $400ish on a good day, from what I understand has the same AMP section as the gen 2 and gen 3(except that is balanced) just different DAC's which you can bypass, the 3rd gen is like $1400 and recommended by Abyss for their headphones so you know it's damn good


Here is also a thread "Senn HD800 Ultimate, "Maxx" Mod" at head-fi. 
Is there a way to mod it that way and make the sound more gentle? 
Im happy with my dac and amp, but for HD800 it is not working. 
Looking for another way to let them shine. 
Hope someone can give some advices.


----------



## the1andonly

Adriano1402 said:


> Here is also a thread "Senn HD800 Ultimate, "Maxx" Mod" at head-fi.
> Is there a way to mod it that way and *make the sound more gentle?
> Im happy with my dac and amp, but for HD800 it is not working.
> Looking for another way to let them shine.*
> Hope someone can give some advices.


filter.
Multiband compression.


----------



## Adriano1402

the1andonly said:


> filter.
> Multiband compression.


Im using filter like oratory1990 or crinacle. Do you know some better filter?


----------



## the1andonly (Feb 2, 2022)

Adriano1402 said:


> Im using filter like oratory1990 or crinacle. Do you know some better filter?


do you mean EQ? The only EQ I can see working is a bump into upper upper bass and lower mids bleeding into mids

lower all treble 2-3 db and hit the spike your headphone has(lookup FR for model and - extra 2-3 db on spike)

Find a multiband compression app that works on audio out, just use google


----------



## Adriano1402

I think tube amps only add some distortion. 
So is there a way to simulate it with eq?


----------



## Adriano1402

the1andonly said:


> do you mean EQ? The only EQ I can see working is a bump into upper upper bass and lower mids bleeding into mids
> 
> lower all treble 2-3 db and hit the spike your headphone has(lookup FR for model and - extra 2-3 db on spike)
> 
> Find a multiband compression app that works on audio out, just use google


Ok will have a Look.


----------



## Adriano1402 (Feb 11, 2022)

Think this is discussed several times before here, but only want to give my thoughts...
Tried 2-3 cheap tube amps, tried several EQ settings, hardwired, balanced... but all without success.

Now i tried Can Opener and Sonarworks, both activated in jriver and with my Qudelix 5K portable amp in balanced mode  I really love it, thats what i was looking for...
Need to enjoy it a few moments more and after that i will send them to Sonarworks for individual measurement, to get the last few percent.


----------



## musicinmymind

Adriano1402 said:


> Think this is discussed several times before here, but only want to give my thoughts...
> Tried 2-3 cheap tube amps, tried several EQ settings, hardwired, balanced... but all without success.
> 
> Now i tried Can Opener and Sonarworks, both activated in jriver and with my Qudelix 5K portable amp in balanced mode  I really love it, thats what i was looking for...
> Need to enjoy it a few moments more and after that i will send them to Sonarworks for individual measurement, to get the last few percent.


Great, enjoy HD800

How are taking individual measurement, is that an option in Sonorworks?


----------



## Adriano1402

musicinmymind said:


> Great, enjoy HD800
> 
> How are taking individual measurement, is that an option in Sonorworks?


Yes, they are offering an individual calibration service. So you send your headphones in and get a individual measurement file. Costs 149€, but i need to try that.


----------



## musicinmymind

Unless you have done any mods on HD800, it should sound same as any other once. Why we need send the headphones?


----------



## Adriano1402

musicinmymind said:


> Unless you have done any mods on HD800, it should sound same as any other once. Why we need send the headphones?


Every headphone, even the same type has some small driver variance, channel imbalance and so on. At premium models like HD800 it is not so dramatic like cheaper models, but i think it can make a difference. I dont know if it will be make a noticable difference, but i will give it a try.


----------



## Kiats

Wonderful listening on the HD800S off the Luxury & Precision LP6 Ti 7th Anniversary. Wonderful timbre and great realism.


----------



## Revolution1 (Feb 26, 2022)

Adriano1402 said:


> Now i tried Can Opener and Sonarworks, both activated in jriver


I didn't like the HD800 settings in the Sonarworks plug-in, flat gray sound.
For the Amarra, I use the Harman-2018 settings in the Apple Audio Unit, with four additional filters at high frequencies.
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/Sennheiser HD 800


----------



## flaxton

I purchased a pair of hd800 headphones recently. Paired with my Graham Slee  Solo amplifier I think they sound great.


----------



## flaxton

_what exactly is the 6k spike. I am over 60. Will I notice it or are my ears too old.🤨😰_


----------



## bearFNF (Mar 28, 2022)

flaxton said:


> _what exactly is the 6k spike. I am over 60. Will I notice it or are my ears too old.🤨😰_


It makes some tracks seem too sparkly and maybe a little piecing, for some people on certain systems. (bright amp)
If you do not feel that they are too bright or hear the piercing sound then I wouldn't worry too much about it... just enjoy the music.


----------



## flaxton

bearFNF said:


> It makes some tracks seem too sparkly and maybe a little piecing, for some people on certain systems. (bright amp)
> If you do not feel that they are too bright or hear the piercing sound then I wouldn't worry too much about it... just enjoy the music.


Ok. Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## bearFNF

flaxton said:


> Ok. Thanks for the explanation.


oh, and if you want to hear what 6k sounds like do a google search for "6k sound", one commenter on Youtube said "I now know exactly how to describe my tinnitus"


----------



## flaxton

bearFNF said:


> oh, and if you want to hear what 6k sounds like do a google search for "6k sound", one commenter on Youtube said "I now know exactly how to describe my tinnitus"


That is high. Don’t recall hearing that high when listening to music on my headphones.


----------



## bearFNF

For me, it usually manifests itself as a headache after time, or a piercing sound that makes me cringe at certain points in certain tracks with my brighter amps (I'm looking at you Schiit magni and Asgard 1). But that is also why I don't use the HD800 (or any of my Grados) on that equipment anymore. I use a Cavaalli LAU (SS) or a Taboo MKIII (tube) amp now.


----------



## SlothRock

Joinin' the club this week! HD800S purchased on the classifieds should be here Thursday and have my first tube amp also coming with it that should arrive Friday. Rest assured this weekend is going to be full of headphone listening . Excited to see how these compare to my VC's and HD660S. I have a sneaking suspicion the 660 may not be here much longer but open to being surprised


----------



## musicinmymind

I use HD800->Darkvoice->Hugo2 and with few selected Tubes does not have 6k peek issues, very happy with HD800.


----------



## RCBinTN (Mar 29, 2022)

Hi All,
When properly driven, the HD800 will have a very full sound, especially in the midrange. Also, the bass is fast and robust. They will be an absolute joy to listen to.

When the HD800 are not properly driven, sometimes the case for folks starting out, the sound will be thin and annoyingly bright. But when you find a good DAC/amp combination, the sound potential will be unlocked ... these cans scale better than any others I know about.

Even when properly driven, the HD800 will still have a peak around the 6kHz frequency. The peak is just the nature of the HD800 drivers and it shows clearly in the frequency curve (I don't have a curve to share ... sorry). For people with some hearing loss, in the higher registers, this peak may go unnoticed. But it does make the cans sound a tad bright. I personally use digital EQ, as I have a SS amplifier and don't roll tubes ... the EQ is part of the JRiver program which is the music server on my Mac. Here is my EQ curve - you can see that I lowered the 6kHz area by 2.5dB so just a small amount of EQ. I kept going lower until the voices and cymbals sounded more realistic.  With this EQ curve, I have a low amount of listening fatigue and the music sounds realistic (neutral) to me. The HD800 do not have a "warm" sound ... I leave the curve alone and don't adjust for different music genres.

YMMV and happy listening ... the HD800 are my favorite headphones.


----------



## bearFNF

RCBinTN said:


> Hi All,
> When properly driven, the HD800 will have a very full sound, especially in the midrange. Also, the bass is fast and robust. They will be an absolute joy to listen to.
> 
> When the HD800 are not properly driven, sometimes the case for folks starting out, the sound will be thin and annoyingly bright. But when you find a good DAC/amp combination, the sound potential will be unlocked ... these cans scale better than any others I know about.
> ...


Here is the curve Sennheiser sent me for my Hd800 when I asked for it.


----------



## flaxton

Just played Burnt Weeny Sandwich by Zappa on vinyl. Sounded great on the 800 headphones.


----------



## RCBinTN

flaxton said:


> Just played Burnt Weeny Sandwich by Zappa on vinyl. Sounded great on the 800 headphones.


Nice! Hard to beat a Burnt Weeny Sandwich! I listened to three Zappa studio albums today, also on HD800. Great stuff ... it's posted on the listening thread:


RCBinTN said:


> From 1973 _Apostrophe'/Overnight Sensation_, from 1975 _Bongo Fury_, and
> from 1979 _Sheik Yerbouti_. Vintage bizarreness from the master of the bizarre.
> Tremendous. HD800 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>


----------



## flaxton

I love my 800 cans but find I can’t get a really good fit. My other headphones are focal elear and akg k701. I have no problem with those. I wonder why.


----------



## roskodan (Apr 7, 2022)

flaxton said:


> I love my 800 cans but find I can’t get a really good fit. My other headphones are focal elear and akg k701. I have no problem with those. I wonder why.


Not enough padding on either the headband nor pads. Try a headband cover to add padding to the headband, will make them less wobbly. Something as simple as I did *here* works just fine.


----------



## flaxton

roskodan said:


> Not enough padding on either the headband nor pads. Try a headband cover add padding to the headband, will make them less wobbly. Something as simple as I did *here* works just fine.


----------



## flaxton

_thanks. Will try that._


----------



## SlothRock

Putting my HD800S up for sale to fund an Atrium purchase if anyone is looking:

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/sennheiser-hd800s-with-aftermarket-cable-pads.23442/


----------



## Maxx134

Here is an update to my HD800 thread.
👍


----------



## MrMan

roskodan said:


> Not enough padding on either the headband nor pads. Try a headband cover to add padding to the headband, will make them less wobbly. Something as simple as I did *here* works just fine.


This is why I had to go with Dekoni velour headphone pads. The problem is they raise the treble and kill the bass. Luckily I have an amp/dac that allows me to tweak both of those. I turned tremble to -1 and bass to +2 on my amp/dac and the sound seems to equalize out with the added benefit of comfort and extra soundstage.


----------



## helloh3adfi

MrMan said:


> This is why I had to go with Dekoni velour headphone pads. The problem is they raise the treble and kill the bass. Luckily I have an amp/dac that allows me to tweak both of those. I turned tremble to -1 and bass to +2 on my amp/dac and the sound seems to equalize out with the added benefit of comfort and extra soundstage.


I don't want to use Dekonis dust cover, but instead the stock dust cover. This guy here shows how to do it:  
Did anyone try this?


----------



## Maxx134

MrMan said:


> This is why I had to go with Dekoni velour headphone pads. The problem is they raise the treble and kill the bass.



I have adressed and solved the issue in _my thread here_.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

So my stock pads are falling off - what replacements should I go with? I listen to classical and opera.


----------



## Ichos

bosiemoncrieff said:


> So my stock pads are falling off - what replacements should I go with? I listen to classical and opera.


When I had the HD800 I enjoyed classical music with the Dekoni Hybrid pads.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Are they any easier to install than the stock? It's always a nightmare and I feel like I need 3 hands to get the stock pads on the cans.


----------



## Ichos

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Are they any easier to install than the stock? It's always a nightmare and I feel like I need 3 hands to get the stock pads on the cans.


Yes they have better click to attach system with a harder plastic.
Please keep in mind that they are thicker so there is a chance that you don't like the feeling on first use but in the end I think that they are way more comfortable than stock.


----------



## bearFNF

bosiemoncrieff said:


> So my stock pads are falling off - what replacements should I go with? I listen to classical and opera.


I agree with @Ichos If you don't mind the velour then the elite hybrid are an option. I personally don't like velour so I went with the elite sheepskin.
BTW: They are much easier to install than the stock pads. The stock pads can be fiddly to install when new.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm on the fence between hybrid and velour. Which does popular opinion favor, and would classical music have any reason to favor the less popular opinion?


----------



## tumpux

I never like Dekoni pads or any aftermarket pads on the 800.


----------



## AudioMoksha

I have sheepskin pads, great fit and they make the clamp better. No real change in the tonality or soundstage, maybe just a little more bass emphasis.


----------



## helloh3adfi

Got fenestrated sheepskin on HD 800s. They're not bad. I'll probably cut the dustcover and just keep the stock dustcover on.


----------



## RCBinTN

I don't think a "tight" fit of the HD800 on my head is an important point. With the over-ear design, they just float above the ear and direct the sound waves into the ear canal. I do find that when I push the cups tight against the back of my ear, it's more comfortable and may present "better" sound. YMMV like on everything in this hobby


----------



## bosiemoncrieff (May 4, 2022)

Well, I got the hybrids. B-stock, so I'm stuck with them. Should I cut out their liners and use Sennheiser's, or ditch the stock dust filters and keep Dekoni's?


----------



## helloh3adfi (May 13, 2022)

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Well, I got the hybrids. B-stock, so I'm stuck with them. Should I cut out their liners and use Sennheiser's, or ditch the stock dust filters and keep Dekoni's?


I bit the bullet and cut out Dekoni's dust cover. Not like the video. Instead I used small scissors, which you'd use to cut nails. Comfort improved. They also sit tighter. Using Sennheiser stock dust cover. I like the result.


----------



## MrMan

Stock Sennheiser pads are trash. I was forced to buy Dekoni pads. They killed the bass and made the treble harsh. Luckily my sound card/amp allows me to tweak both. A boost in bass and reduction in treble puts the headphones close to stock with improved sound stage and comfort.


----------



## helloh3adfi

MrMan said:


> Stock Sennheiser pads are trash. I was forced to buy Dekoni pads. They killed the bass and made the treble harsh. Luckily my sound card/amp allows me to tweak both. A boost in bass and reduction in treble puts the headphones close to stock with improved sound stage and comfort.


Which Dekonis did you buy? Also you will get some more subbass, if you use a silicon ring with them. Dekonis don't come with it so you could buy cheap China pads that come with silicon. Just beneath under the Sennheiser stock pads to understand what I mean.


----------



## timhd

I've compared HD800 with HD800s for several times and I prefer the sound of HD800! Thus I bought an used HD800 last year and replaced the original cable with Sommer peacock MKII. For me, the sound of the sommer cable is more balanced than the original cable.


----------



## longbowbbs

I stayed with the HD800 as well. For me it is the best.


----------



## mcgo

I picked up my HD800s late 2016 brand new in box for just a bit less than 1K.  What a deal!

5+ years later and I’m still in the honeymoon period!  The pads are in good shape and the cans have never left my desk.  If a hurricane was going to hit, these senns would be my first grab!

I have about 10 different sources to choose from all hooked up to my glorious Violectric balanced amp. Its all good! No EQ.

Highly recommend!


----------



## Kimmeri

I found world's cheapest hd800 but first I have to ask: Can you drive HD800 with Ifi Zen Can? 'Im not buying it if Zen Can is not good enough. I don't have the money for a new amp too.


----------



## Ichos

Kimmeri said:


> I found world's cheapest hd800 but first I have to ask: Can you drive HD800 with Ifi Zen Can? 'Im not buying it if Zen Can is not good enough. I don't have the money for a new amp too.


Absolutely as long as you can utilize the balanced output.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Kimmeri said:


> I found world's cheapest hd800 but first I have to ask: Can you drive HD800 with Ifi Zen Can? 'Im not buying it if Zen Can is not good enough. I don't have the money for a new amp too.


If it's too cheap to be true, it isn't. So be careful.


----------



## Kimmeri (Sep 20, 2022)

gimmeheadroom said:


> If it's too cheap to be true, it isn't. So be careful.


Thanks, I am.


----------



## Madcat207

So,  just how cheap is the world's cheapest?


----------



## Kimmeri (Sep 20, 2022)

Madcat207 said:


> So,  just how cheap is the world's cheapest?


350 euro. It needs a new cable but I have a guy who makes balanced cable for 110 euro. Headphone's owner is a dead man and his family is selling all his worldly possessions so it might  be a bit creepy.


----------



## Madcat207

Even with a new cable (and ear pads for obvious reasons) that is a steal. I got mine for 650 and was thrilled; I hope these work out for you!!


----------



## kamikazeing

We're nearing the end of 2022 and my HD800 still lays there all sad and pad-less. Come on senn, get your act together and restock your OEM pads!


----------



## MDR30

kamikazeing said:


> We're nearing the end of 2022 and my HD800 still lays there all sad and pad-less. Come on senn, get your act together and restock your OEM pads!


----------



## ozz007

kamikazeing said:


> We're nearing the end of 2022 and my HD800 still lays there all sad and pad-less. Come on senn, get your act together and restock your OEM pads!


I had to used 3rd party pads for both my HD800 and my HD820, So far im happy.


----------



## MDR30

kamikazeing said:


> We're nearing the end of 2022 and my HD800 still lays there all sad and pad-less. Come on senn, get your act together and restock your OEM pads!


It's beyond criticism. I ended up with Geekria pads, not bad. The owner of Sennheiser goes where the money is, and it's not spare parts/replacement parts/service or a functioning web site. Look for other brands if you hope for sustainability.


----------



## longbowbbs

So far my original pads are holding up. What are peoples favorite replacement pads? Are Seen's the best?


----------



## Madcat207

longbowbbs said:


> So far my original pads are holding up. What are peoples favorite replacement pads? Are Seen's the best?


I have been using these on my 800's, and have been very happy:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MXB8XKQ

Definitely wouldn't mind knowing if there are better options.


----------



## bearFNF

longbowbbs said:


> So far my original pads are holding up. What are peoples favorite replacement pads? Are Seen's the best?


I went with Dekoni elite sheepskin. I am not a fan of velour pads.


----------



## nephilim32

bearFNF said:


> I went with Dekoni elite sheepskin. I am not a fan of velour pads.


Buddy. Go here. 

https://www.geekria.com/earpads.html

They make better pads than the OEM.


----------



## ozz007

Madcat207 said:


> I have been using these on my 800's, and have been very happy:
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MXB8XKQ
> 
> Definitely wouldn't mind knowing if there are better options.


I went with the Sheep Sking on both, I order the Velor too, waiting for them to come.


----------



## dougq

Pads have been in stock today.


----------



## Kimmeri

How in the screw am I supposed to install these new Chinese pads? Im all out of ideas.


----------



## kamikazeing

Kimmeri said:


> How in the screw am I supposed to install these new Chinese pads? Im all out of ideas.


You toss them in the garbage bin! It's what I did.

 Okay sorry. I'm just still mad as I bought those same chinese knockoffs off from aliexpress and had such a hard time trying to get them on that the headphones started to literally creak from all the force lol. In the end they never clicked on no matter what so In the garbage they went.


----------



## Kimmeri

kamikazeing said:


> You toss them in the garbage bin! It's what I did.
> 
> Okay sorry. I'm just still mad as I bought those same chinese knockoffs off from aliexpress and had such a hard time trying to get them on that the headphones started to literally creak from all the force lol. In the end they never clicked on no matter what so In the garbage they went.


Okay okay. My fingertips are sore! I was pushing and twisting everything for an hour and absolutely nothing worked and I finally ended up with those hard plastic rings separated for cushion and that stupid other plastic. I do hate that system with a passion.


----------



## bearFNF

Kimmeri said:


> How in the screw am I supposed to install these new Chinese pads? Im all out of ideas.


This is one reason I went with Dekoni pads, super easy install vs the stock design style.


----------



## nephilim32

Kimmeri said:


> How in the screw am I supposed to install these new Chinese pads? Im all out of ideas.


I admit. Those look tricky. Please let me know if you do somehow get those on without destroying your headphones. Lol.


----------



## johnjen

Alignment is critical, IOW if the pads are rotated to the incorrect placement they simply won't 'latch'.
This is especially true for new pads where the inner 'liner' hasn't been formed yet.
And new pads do require extra force to get them to 'snap' into place which also forms that inner plastic liner.

I use the one 'sharp' corner to index the rest of the pad into the proper position for the rest of the pad to get aligned.
Then I use the 'flat' sides to start the snapping of the pads onto the frame and then work around the rest of the pad.

But getting the pads rotated properly is the key to starting the process of getting them mounted.

JJ


----------



## tamleo

Hello guys,
May I ask if the Hd800 after modding can have an increased microdynamic and macrodynamic? My Hd800 seems to have the same volume at every notes compared to even my Hd6xx . I think it due to the metal mesh cups reflecting to much sound but I am not sure on that. I am okay with the stock hd800 ‘s treble range though. Tks


----------



## johnjen

tamleo said:


> Hello guys,
> May I ask if the Hd800 after modding can have an increased microdynamic and macrodynamic? My Hd800 seems to have the same volume at every notes compared to even my Hd6xx . I think it due to the metal mesh cups reflecting to much sound but I am not sure on that. I am okay with the stock hd800 ‘s treble range though. Tks


One thing that can help, is to dampen the 'trapazoid' area (next to the headband to earcup mounting screws).
These 'early reflections' can 'mess with' the overall SQ and in a number of ways.

As for micro and macro dynamics, I have found that a better cable, and hardwiring said cable, can do wonders for dynamics.

And too much dampening material within the earcups can 'stifle' the dynamics as well.
And of course the upstream electronics play a big role in delivering 'punchy' dynamics as well.

Just a few thoughts to consider.

JJ


----------



## musicinmymind

johnjen said:


> One thing that can help, is to dampen the 'trapazoid' area (next to the headband to earcup mounting screws).
> These 'early reflections' can 'mess with' the overall SQ and in a number of ways.
> 
> As for micro and macro dynamics, *I have found that a better cable,* and hardwiring said cable, can do wonders for dynamics.
> ...



Which cable?


----------



## johnjen (Nov 22, 2022)

There are a variety of cables that are an 'improvement' over the stock cable.
Which cable is dependent upon your budget and requirements (length, if it is to be hardwired, or not, etc.)

I myself use a SAA (Stephan Audio Arts) cable and also a Jena Wire cable, both of which are hardwired into 2 separate sets of 800-Jmods.
Each has their own 'character' which while subtle, is just another factor in ALL of the upstream equipment used to feed the HD800's.

800's are after all very revealing of the signal that is fed them, some people refer to this as that they are 'picky' of the upstream gear.

One example is the cable 'mod', which entails cutting the stock cable down to ≈ 5' (1.5m) and re-terminating it, this alone will improve almost all aspects of the 800's SQ.

JJ


----------



## JamieMcC

I'm aware of a number of folk who's stock cable started splitting and falling apart after a year or so I known mine did. 

Certainly this is something to consider if thinking about shortening and re-terminating the stock having to redo again will be a pain.

Imo to be honest it's something I wouldn't even contemplate if going to the trouble to re terminate even some inexpensive pro cable like Mogami 2893 star quad microphone cable outperforms the stock cable imo and it only costs around three  dollars a meter a lot of re-cablers and pro-studio's use it for good reason.

 You don't need to spend silly money a few metres of Mogami a Neutrik trs or XLR connector and some can end terminals from AliExpress or ebay and you can have a solid performing cable for under £50


----------



## Kimmeri

HD800 and vertigo. 
So looks like I'm getting vertigo from this specific headphone.
Have you or have you heard that anyone has experienced vertigo connected to the use of HD800? I have isolated and confirmed the culprit being the HD800 with taking HD800 free days and listening my other headphones (DT1990 and Elear) and lo and behold no vertigo then back to HD800 and there it is again. I feel it strongest when I'm lying down. There are no headaches or nausea of any kind appearing nor is the sound of HD800 unpleasant to me. I made SDR mod and EQ pic related. 
Any kind of tip or comment highly appreciated.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Maybe it is physical. They hardly clamp on me but maybe they're pressing on part of your head in a bad way?


----------



## Kimmeri

gimmeheadroom said:


> Maybe it is physical. They hardly clamp on me but maybe they're pressing on part of your head in a bad way?


Thanks for the guess but my gut instinct tells me it's not about that. HD800 is very comfy for me, I have a narrow head too so even less clamp than for normal headed ppl.
Now I remember reading or hearing somewhere that some high frequencies can cause  certain  people vertigo lightheadedness. Maybe there is something weird going on in my unit in way up there in 15k Hz+...


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Maybe, so start rolling off the high tones with your EQ and see if it helps.


----------



## roskodan (Nov 23, 2022)

@Kimmeri maybe some imbalance between left and right.

Use *this* online tone generator to test.

Also *these* tests for out of phase (aka polarity) and other issues.


----------



## jamesjames

Kimmeri said:


> Okay okay. My fingertips are sore! I was pushing and twisting everything for an hour and absolutely nothing worked and I finally ended up with those hard plastic rings separated for cushion and that stupid other plastic. I do hate that system with a passion.


I recently tried some Geekria pads, which seem pretty good.  They're touted as being replacements for the HD800 (rather than the HD800S), which seems right to me. I think they attach more readily, and the quality of the materials appears to be better (more like genuine parts). I got them on Amazon - for a good price.


----------



## Kimmeri (Nov 23, 2022)

roskodan said:


> @Kimmeri maybe some imbalance between left and right.
> 
> Use *this* online tone generator to test.
> 
> Also *these* tests for out of phase (aka polarity) and other issues.


Thanks for these tests. I found no issues. Almost crap my pants on fear on Binaural Test tho hahaha.


----------



## Kimmeri

jamesjames said:


> I recently tried some Geekria pads, which seem pretty good.  They're touted as being replacements for the HD800 (rather than the HD800S), which seems right to me. I think they attach more readily, and the quality of the materials appears to be better (more like genuine parts). I got them on Amazon - for a good price.


I threw mine on trash. Totally useless China crap. Bought originals, cost outrageous 85 euro, but was simple to attach.


----------



## Kimmeri

gimmeheadroom said:


> Maybe, so start rolling off the high tones with your EQ and see if it helps.


Do you have any tips for dummies type of thing for EQ? Sounds that one cannot hear still matter, right? My ears go quiet on 13k, 1k above my tinnitus freq.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Kimmeri said:


> Do you have any tips for dummies type of thing for EQ? Sounds that one cannot hear still matter, right? My ears go quiet on 13k, 1k above my tinnitus freq.


I really don't know the affect of tones you can't hear, but I suspect they can still have an effect, since they will vibrate your skull even if you can't hear them.

You could reduce everything above 13 KHz as low as your EQ will go, leave everything up to that point flat (no boost, no cut). Give yourself some time before you make an observation.


----------



## Kimmeri

gimmeheadroom said:


> I really don't know the affect of tones you can't hear, but I suspect they can still have an effect, since they will vibrate your skull even if you can't hear them.
> 
> You could reduce everything above 13 KHz as low as your EQ will go, leave everything up to that point flat (no boost, no cut). Give yourself some time before you make an observation.


Yea, that sounds reasonable. Starting to play with that EQ now. Reporting back in a week or so if I see any changes. Cheers mate!


----------



## gimmeheadroom

jamesjames said:


> I recently tried some Geekria pads, which seem pretty good.  They're touted as being replacements for the HD800 (rather than the HD800S), which seems right to me. I think they attach more readily, and the quality of the materials appears to be better (more like genuine parts). I got them on Amazon - for a good price.


HD 800 and HD 800 S should be identical with respect to pads which can fit.


----------



## Peti

Kimmeri said:


> HD800 and vertigo.
> So looks like I'm getting vertigo from this specific headphone.
> Have you or have you heard that anyone has experienced vertigo connected to the use of HD800? I have isolated and confirmed the culprit being the HD800 with taking HD800 free days and listening my other headphones (DT1990 and Elear) and lo and behold no vertigo then back to HD800 and there it is again. I feel it strongest when I'm lying down. There are no headaches or nausea of any kind appearing nor is the sound of HD800 unpleasant to me. I made SDR mod and EQ pic related.
> Any kind of tip or comment highly appreciated.


Try to add quality cross-feed instead of EQ-ing.


----------



## Revolution1 (Dec 3, 2022)

Kimmeri said:


> Do you have any tips for dummies type of thing for EQ? Sounds that one cannot hear still matter, right? My ears go quiet on 13k, 1k above my tinnitus freq.


Try these settings for EQ.
The first ten are from "oratory1990".


----------



## jamesjames (Nov 23, 2022)

gimmeheadroom said:


> HD 800 and HD 800 S should be identical with respect to pads which can fit.


Yes, that's right.  But the cushion part is slightly different on the early HD800 - so if you're after that shape (as I was), it's quite useful.


----------



## jamesjames (Nov 23, 2022)

Kimmeri said:


> I threw mine on trash. Totally useless China crap. Bought originals, cost outrageous 85 euro, but was simple to attach.


I'm sorry to hear that.  I prefer genuine when I can get them, and also avoid the really awful copies if I can (not all from China either). I found the Geekria consistently pretty good - and useful if you're after the early HD800 cushion shape (as I was).


----------



## TYATYA

jamesjames said:


> I recently tried some Geekria pads, which seem pretty good.  They're touted as being replacements for the HD800 (rather than the HD800S), which seems right to me. I think they attach more readily, and the quality of the materials appears to be better (more like genuine parts). I got them on Amazon - for a good price.


I use Geekria from AMZ too.
Sheep skin type.
They are good and friendly price


----------



## kamikazeing

Anybody wanna buy my padless HD800?. I'm sick of waiting and would just rather have someone else deal with hunting down a pair of pads.


----------



## nieveulv

kamikazeing said:


> Anybody wanna buy my padless HD800?. I'm sick of waiting and would just rather have someone else deal with hunting down a pair of pads.


You should try zachs from zmfs pad if you dont want to wait for an official pair. The suede one measures quite similarly.

https://shop.zmfheadphones.com/collections/pads/products/zmf-hd8xx-earpads


----------



## Ojisan

nieveulv said:


> You should try zachs from zmfs pad if you dont want to wait for an official pair. The suede one measures quite similarly.
> 
> https://shop.zmfheadphones.com/collections/pads/products/zmf-hd8xx-earpads


This looks promising. Anybody try these? I hated the Dekoni pads and I’m still on stock pads.


----------



## tumpux

I prefer the stock pads over dekoni or zmf.


----------



## jamesjames

I agree - I think the size and density of the stock pads are important elements of the design - and affect the sound quite a bit.  As mentioned above, the only non-genuine pads I've tried that come close are Geekria (on Amazon) - pretty good I think.


----------



## AgentXXL

Everyone has different anatomy and neurological make-up so it's understandable that some like the stock earpads and others like a 3rd party earpad. I personally use the Dekoni Elite fenestrated and find them quite enjoyable. Paired with a Topping A90 amp, the HD800 with the SuperDupont resonator mod are still my favorite. 

Side note: I just wish Topping products were more reliable... I've had two DX7 Pro DAC/amp units die in the same manner. It starts with no audio or being unable to adjust the volume via the knob or remote, and when you turn the unit off, it will no longer turn back on. My original DX7 Pro was repaired under warranty and is on the way back to me, but a second-hand unit I purchased now needs the same repair. I'm highly unlikely to buy another Topping product based on this experience.


----------



## jamesjames

AgentXXL said:


> Everyone has different anatomy and neurological make-up so it's understandable that some like the stock earpads and others like a 3rd party earpad. I personally use the Dekoni Elite fenestrated and find them quite enjoyable. Paired with a Topping A90 amp, the HD800 with the SuperDupont resonator mod are still my favorite.
> 
> Side note: I just wish Topping products were more reliable... I've had two DX7 Pro DAC/amp units die in the same manner. It starts with no audio or being unable to adjust the volume via the knob or remote, and when you turn the unit off, it will no longer turn back on. My original DX7 Pro was repaired under warranty and is on the way back to me, but a second-hand unit I purchased now needs the same repair. I'm highly unlikely to buy another Topping product based on this experience.


Yes, point taken.  Perhaps I could have been a bit clearer - I simply meant to say I'm convinced that the pads really do affect the sound.  My own preference for the stock pads reflects my preference for a sound that's as 'open' as possible (impressionistic, I know).  I think this contributes a great deal to the sense of distance from the performance space that these phones can create - and which I particularly like.  Having tried a range of non-genuine replacements, I haven't found one that's as 'good' in this respect.  As mentioned, the density and size seem to affect the issue.


----------



## MrMan

Does anyone know of a person or place to repair HD800's? The pin on one side of the headphones popped out and the earcup is all loose now. Luckily I have a pair of HD650 as backup and not sounding too bad.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

MrMan said:


> Does anyone know of a person or place to repair HD800's? The pin on one side of the headphones popped out and the earcup is all loose now. Luckily I have a pair of HD650 as backup and not sounding too bad.



@jfunk


----------

